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The Postwar Triumph of Social Liberalism
Lessons from the Collapse of Catholicism in France
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Jérôme Fourquet’s The French Archipelago provides a kind of dynamic radioscopy of the French nation as she has developed in recent decades. The picture, as detailed in my review of the book, is one of the fading away of the old sociological left and right, leaving behind a fragmented subcultural and political landscape, divided in multiple ways along educational/economic, ethnic, and religious lines.

As part of this, Fourquet meticulously documents the decline of Catholicism and the triumph socially liberal values in postwar France. The pollster identifies a number of patterns which are instructive both for France and other Western nations, which are virtually all experiencing similar changes.

The decline of Catholicism in France is overwhelming and apparent in innumerable areas:

  • Baptism: once overwhelming, down to around 30% of newborns in 2015 (p. 25)
  • Regular mass-going: from 35% in 1961 to 6% today.
  • Divorce: taboo until the 1960s, then steadily rising.
  • Marriage: once a “hegemonic social norm,” declining since the 1973 Oil Shock (p. 37). Out-of-wedlock births have steadily risen from 5.9% in 1965 to 59.9% in 2017. A caveat: this figure is not synonymous with broken homes and single mothers, as many unwed couples live together, typically within a civil union (PACS, p. 42).
  • Abortion: 48% of French supported in 1974 (moreso among the young), with hegemonic 75% support across generations in 2014 (p. 44).
  • Gay marriage: steady support of over 60%, though only around half of French support adoption by gay couples, with some fluctuation (p. 48). Older people’s opinion on the matter is rapidly converging with the young, with little class divide.
  • Gay children: There is a marked male-female divide on the acceptance of homosexuality among one’s children. In 2000-03, two thirds of women said they would be perfectly happy with their child being gay, but only half of men said the same (p. 52).
  • Medically-assisted procreation: half of French support allowing lesbians and single mothers to conceive children through in vitro fertilization, with the mention that “fatherless children” would be born. Two thirds of young people support the measure (p. 55).

Catholicism’s decline to marginality and even oblivion in France is evident from the number of Catholic priests. In 1950, there were about as many priests and monks in France as during the French Revolution in 1789 (around 170,000, bearing in mind the general population had more than doubled). Today, they number only 51,500 and the authors predict that Catholic parish priests will be a virtually extinct breed within 30 years (p. 28).

Number of Catholic diocesan priests in France
Number of Catholic diocesan priests in France

At the end of the nineteenth and in the early twentieth centuries, France provided three quarters of the Catholic missionaries proselytizing in Africa and Asia. Today, in a dramatic reversal, the bulk of new Catholic priests comes from the Third World. Some African prelates, such as Cardinal Robert Sarah, have themselves expressed grave alarm at Europe’s godlessness, infertility and invasion by Muslim immigration.

Catholicism has gone from forming the core of one of France’s two primary subcultures to merely one subculture for the 6-12% of French who remain practicing Catholics (6% being the ones who go to mass, 12% those who claim to be practicing). Even these have embraced many aspects of social liberalism (e.g. acceptance of sex before marriage). Practicing Catholics tend to be older than the general population.

Fourquet also documents other social changes. Only Muslims and practicing Catholics still prefer the traditional funerary practice of burial, with a majority of French now wishing to be incinerated after death (p. 57). Fourquet links this to the fact that most people no longer live in their old villages near to their ancestors’ graves and thus no longer feel the importance of lineage.

Tattooing used to be a very marginal practice (sailors, soldiers . . .) but has steadily risen and now stabilized, with a quarter of young people having tattoos (p. 59). Tattoos and the adoption of rare names represent “a major phenomenon of today’s societies: mass narcissism” (60). There has also been a steady growth in the number of young people who have engaged in oral sex.

The attitude of the French towards animals is also changing. In the mold of the Old Testament, the French used to consider animals as essentially humans’ slaves, to be used however they saw fit. Today, two thirds of French oppose the use of circus animals or the stuffing of geese to make famous French delicacy of foie gras. “Anti-specism” is a new fashion among academics and talking heads.

The evolutionary meaning of traditional culture

Many see in the decline of Catholic practice and customs a triumph over the irrational superstitions inherited from the ignorant past. Even a secularist should ask however: How did these values come to predominate and what do they represent?

In The Descent of Man, Charles Darwin himself had stressed that traditional cultures tend in a crude and primitive way to be guided by what is good for the community: “The judgment of the community will generally be guided by some rude experience of what is best in the long run for all the members; but this judgment will not rarely err from ignorance and weak powers of reasonings.”

Many traditional cultures, including those of the West, emphasize patriarchy, the specialization of gender norms, child-rearing, and familial responsibilities. It’s easy to conceive how nations and families adhering to such norms would naturally outcompete those who did not.[1]Of course, traditional norms are not uniformly adaptive in an evolutionary sense. In Catholic Europe, the specific expression of these norms was partially determined in a top-down fashion by the particular doctrines of the Church. Several important Catholic doctrines may be considered maladaptive or dysgenic, notably the the sacralization of fetuses (retarding the development of medical technologies), the ban on abortion, and the drive to convert all human beings to the faith regardless of ethnicity. This is especially so if we recall the conditions of premodern life: a fairly high fatality risk for pregnant mothers, high infant mortality, and constant struggle – undertaken especially by men – in the physical and social world to secure the one’s security and livelihood.

After the Second World War, the emergence of an affluent society meant that the egalitarian and individualist tendencies of liberalism, which had always been present since at least the eighteenth century, would dramatically radicalize and upturn the social order.

Human beings have always chafed against the apparently, and often actually, arbitrary rigors and constraints of their particular culture. As the sophist Hippias is supposed to have said some 2400 years ago: “I regard you all as relatives and family and fellow citizens – by nature, not by custom. For by nature like is akin to like, but convention is a tyrant over mankind and often constrains people to act contrary to nature” (Plato, Protagoras, 337c-d).

Put simply, young people increasingly could no longer accept the traditional familial and religious constraints of the past and no other coherent value system could rise to replace them – besides, precisely, an ethos of individual entitlement. What’s more rising prosperity and the welfare state actually meant that people could, more and more, get by materially with looser family ties. The father and husband’s economic responsibilities to the household were increasingly substituted by the corporation and the State.

Patterns of cultural change: deep generational shifts, not events

Fourquet identifies a recurring pattern to these trends: the new values first emerge among French youth and the secularizing geographical core (the greater Parisian basin in particular), then gradually spread to the whole population and territory. He does not discuss whether the media and educational systems shape these youthful attitudes, or whether these arise more spontaneously.

It is easy to underestimate the scale and speed of social changes because of a generational lag effect: even as the youth overwhelmingly adopt a new practice, one may have the impression the country has not changed much because the older generations representing the bulk of the population have not adopted them. The effect has gotten more marked as the French population has aged, the average now being over 41 years old.

When the population is evenly split on a new social practice, Fourquet describes this as like a chemical “unstable equilibrium” which can rapidly shift as the old generation dies out and the new norm becomes hegemonic. Indeed, eventually the old adopt the new norms, sometimes even before dying out. All these trends remind us of the importance of the young, as against the peculiar obsessions and taboos of older generations.

On all these issues, Fourquet shows that events tend to have a marginal impact on the overall trend. Neither the infamous May ’68 protests nor Pope Paul VI’s July 1968 encyclical Humanae vitae recalling of the ban on contraception seem to have had much impact. The decline of mass attendance did see a bump when it became no longer mandatory to attend systematically to receive communion, but this was only an accelerant.

France’s spectacular 2012 anti-gay-marriage protests, with hundreds of thousands of people marching across the country, may have a served as a moment of organization and consolidation for French conservatism, but appears to have had little impact on opinion. There appears to be a fait accompli effect whereby a portion of population switches to supporting a measure once it is passed into law.

French public support for gay marriage (in blue) and adoption by gay couples (in red)
French public support for gay marriage (in blue) and adoption by gay couples (in red)

The appeal of liberal nihilism

The basic human drive beneath these changes seems quite straightforward: a rejection of traditional constraints in favor of new norms concerned primarily with maximizing personal choice and economic security.

It is unclear what are the limits, if any, to the disintegration of traditional norms, roles, and identities. The French have disconnected sex from procreation (contraceptives, abortion), mother-father complementarity in parenting (divorce, gay marriage), and the idea of the individual as part of a lasting family, lineage, or nation.

Fourquet highlights as an example of the reigning moral relativism the comments of Jean-François Delfraissy, President of the National Consultative Council on Ethics (CCNE), who said in 2018 that “The refusal to establish a framework or to give reference points is seen at all levels of society,” that “everyone has their own vision of ethics,” and that he did know what “good and evil” are (p. 56). Ultimately for Fourquet, what matters is demographics: “You [the losing side of culture wars] are philosophically wrong because you are sociologically and demographically in the minority” (p. 64).

The biotechnologies of enhancement . . . and disintegration

We can go much further on the road of identitarian disintegration. Will the youth accept transgenderism – that is to say the rejection of biological sex as such, letting people “choose” their sex, whatever their chromosomes or genitalia, through genital self-mutilation and hormonal manipulation? There is currently little pushback across the West, with the partial exception of the irreversible mutilation of children by transgender activists (see the recent court ruling in England requiring children under 16 to get court approval to access puberty blockers).

With new biotechnologies, disintegration of traditional identities can go much further. Currently, enhanced reproductive techniques (procréation médicalement assistée or PMA, including notably in vitro fertilization or IVF) are only legal in France for heterosexual couples. However, there are efforts underway, which will likely be successful and widely accepted, to broaden access to PMA to single mothers and lesbian couples. After all, many ask, why shouldn’t such women be able to have children? The effect will be to have new generations of children willingly deprived of their biological father. The fatherless child may well become a normality. Such practices are already legal in France’s neighbor Belgium.

Single women and lesbians with access to IVF can of course choose from a wide variety of sperm without having to seduce the father. This is likely having eugenic and Nordicist effects as women disproportionately choose sperm from well-educated, healthy, and attractive White fathers. The demand seems to be strongest precisely where northern features are scarce. Serbian women, including Gypsies it seems, are fertilizing their eggs with Danish sperm. Indeed, Danish sperm is perhaps the most popular in the world. In multiracial Brazil, White Americans’ sperm is extraordinarily popular. Such practices further loosen the ties between fatherhood, family, and race.

Then there is the practice of surrogacy or gestation pour autrui (GPA), in which a woman carries to term another person’s embryo. Women who can’t or don’t want to face the hardships and risks of pregnancy could pay another woman to carry their child for them. Homosexual males, who obviously cannot become pregnant, could do the same. This could become a particularly profitable business in which Third-World women in particular could carry wealthy couples’ children. Pierre Bergé, the wealthy homosexual owner of the fashion label Yves Saint Laurent, once notoriously defended the marketization of surrogacy on television saying: “I am for all freedoms. Whether you rent your belly to make a child or rent your arms to work in a factory, what’s the difference? It’s the distinction which is shocking.”

Another technique is artificial gametogenesis. Scientists are learning how to create sperm or ovules from an organisms’ other cells. The most obvious application is in allowing infertile heterosexual couples to create working sperm or ovules and thus conceive. However, there are more radical possibilities: such techniques could enable you to create sperm from a woman or an ovule from a man. Lesbian couples could then have biological children as a couple as such. (Try to wrap your head around the implications for “motherhood” and “fatherhood.”)

The most promising techniques for eugenicists are embryo selection and CRISPR gene editing. The former already takes place in a certain sense: it is common practice in many countries for a woman to abort her fetus if it is found to have severe congenital defects such as Down’s syndrome. Wider embryo selection would allow parents to choose to a child with more genes predisposing to certain traits, such as intelligence or good health, without genetic modification. CRISPR could enable almost unlimited possibilities, including the creation of monstrosities.

Such biotechnologies, which are in principle neither good nor bad and anyway are probably inevitable in the long run, become dangerous in a nihilistic context like ours.

Catholic embers

Still, we should not write off traditional values yet. Fourquet also highlights another trend: the more economically backward, farmer-heavy, and religious regions of France in 1960 – especially concentrated in the western regions – are today among the most economically dynamic and socially cohesive. Demographers Hervé Le Bras and Emmanuel Todd have attributed this to what they call “Zombie Catholicism,” though it might be fairer to speak of residual Catholic traditional values. Fourquet “completely agrees with their analysis when they describe, for example, the higher educational performance and greater social cohesion reigning in the Grand Ouest as being the shadow of Catholicism, whose flame has since gone out” (p. 14).

Percentage of farmers as a share of the active population in 1968
Percentage of farmers as a share of the active population in 1968

By contrast, the precociously dechristianized and industrialized regions of northern and eastern France are now economically depressed and culturally alienated. The Whites there often in a bad state. This may be because of the collapse of traditional values which imposed some structure on lower class Whites’ lives. This is an intriguing hypothesis. Then again, the reversal of economic fortunes between western and northeastern France may also be part of a cycle of difficult economic reconversion for regions heavily invested in now-obsolete industries.

In any case, religious minorities often have high fertility while liberal nihilists, understandably, do not. For those who see no particular importance for lineage, nation, or God, who consider that all human beings are basically equal atoms in an empty universe, raising children naturally seems a meaningless chore or, at best, a mere lifestyle choice. Enhanced or modified reproduction, at this is stage, make up a very small minority of births.

In France, Catholic religiosity is not synonymous with being a hick. Rather, provincial bourgeois Catholic families are famous for being high-functioning, educated, and high-fertility, providing the cadres for the country’s anti-gay-marriage movement in past years. A friend of mine from my university days is such a Catholic, an engineer, apologist of Marshal Philippe Pétain (finding “Work, Family, Fatherland” a much more constructive slogan than “Liberty, Equality, Fraternity”), and is currently expecting his fifth child.

But how significant are high-functioning Catholics actually? This is difficult to say, as there is a lack of data. It is noteworthy that today’s practicing French Catholics are much more likely to be religious out of sincere individual zeal rather than socially conformist pressure. If we look a century or two ahead, assuming humans are still ruling the roost, it seems probable the Earth will naturally fall to believers.

Notes

[1] Of course, traditional norms are not uniformly adaptive in an evolutionary sense. In Catholic Europe, the specific expression of these norms was partially determined in a top-down fashion by the particular doctrines of the Church. Several important Catholic doctrines may be considered maladaptive or dysgenic, notably the the sacralization of fetuses (retarding the development of medical technologies), the ban on abortion, and the drive to convert all human beings to the faith regardless of ethnicity.

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Catholic Church, France, Religion 
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  1. Post which war, pray tell?

    the new values first emerge among French youth and the secularizing geographical core (the greater Parisian basin in particular)

    Ah, the Children of the Commune, points for them 😀

    – Political Catholicism in France never really recovered from l´Affaire.
    Maybe it wasn´t such a good idea to lash their horses to anti-semitism in the aftermath of the Panama Canal swindle after all?
    Maybe it was opportunism, maybe it was deeper insight, maybe just a desperate attempt to prop up an ailing restoration religion among a revolution-happy populace?

    Not that it really matters now – but it is clearly distinct from the post-WWII demonization of everything wholesome (I do admit to post-Catholic ideas on abortion and foie gras 😛 ).
    But look on the bright side: That “healthy” and “Nazi” are now synonymous greatly simplifies things …

    – The German saying about the too-well-fed donkey taking a fancy for thin ice neatly sums it up: As long as we have plenty there will be no turnaround, period.
    Patiently wait for the inevitable crash and, in the meantime, enjoy the décadence 😉

    • LOL: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @GazaPlanet
    , @Wizard of Oz
  2. True liberalism is secular. What we have now is neo-theocratism with Jews, homos, and blacks serving as the new trinity.

    You can bash Muslims and Christians in France. But try doing the same about Jews.

    • Agree: LondonBob, Alfred, Z-man
    • Replies: @Jake
  3. Polls are meaningless. Political power is what matters. France is a judeo-masonic dictatorship, and everything flows from that.

  4. @nokangaroos

    No sane person cares about that kike Dreyfus. Innocent or not, it is what is known as a RED HERRING.

    France is as completely dominated by Jews and their agents as any gentile country in the world.

    • Agree: Pop Warner
    • Replies: @nokangaroos
    , @Z-man
  5. onebornfree says: • Website

    “Now back in 1927 an American socialist, Norman Thomas, six times candidate for president on the Socialist Party ticket, said the American people would never vote for socialism. But he said under the name of liberalism the American people will adopt every fragment of the socialist program.”
    Ronald Reagan

    “There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism – by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.”
    Ayn Rand

    Regards, onebornfree

  6. The Postwar Triumph of Social Liberalism

    Social liberalism. Right. Jewish liberalism. Durocher is like all others. Bitching about what’s wrong while too cowardly to tell the truth about the (((WHO))) of the matter, that is, who made it all wrong. I know a million republicans too fearful to tell the truth. Bitch about Democrats and their processes all you want. To ignore Jewish influence in all this is wretched folly.

    Thanks a fucking lot, Durocher. Shame on you.

    • Replies: @Nalca
  7. @GazaPlanet

    Eh bien – that´s what I was saying 😀

  8. Miro23 says:

    One thing, is that present Christianity is very different from the early version – An early version that struggled to survive in the (Pagan) late Roman Empire.

    Early Christianity was more of a reaction against the sleaze, decadence and corruption of the Empire and comprised a respected but persecuted minority (until the conversion of Emperor Constantine and mainstream support).

    In contrast, present Christianity looks more like the broken remnants of a once powerful medieval church bureaucracy/establishment. In its day it offered opportunity and advancement and the Political Correctness of its time.

    The suggestion is, that the late US Empire has many of the same characteristics as the late Roman Empire and is open to a challenge from a fearless (strange sounding word) ethically strong sect accepting martyrdom/immortality. The early Christians comprised a united community and gained converts across the social spectrum.

    Good source: Robin Lane Fox, “Pagans and Christians” Knopf 1987 https://www.amazon.com/Pagans-Christians-Robin-Lane-Fox/dp/0141022957

    • Agree: Pop Warner
    • Replies: @Rocha
  9. “In France, Catholic religiosity is not synonymous with being a hick. Rather, provincial bourgeois Catholic families are famous for being high-functioning, educated, and high-fertility…”
    The French welfare and tax system used to be relatively favorable to high fertility for households with above average income. Child support (« allocations familiales ») was not means-tested and significant starting with 3rd child. More importantly, each kid was considered as 1/2 adult for the purpose of income tax calculation providing a significant benefit given progressive rates. This advantage has been capped about 20 years ago by the Jospin leftist government. Under Hollande, the cap was further reduced and child support started to be means-tested.
    The French welfare system has become seriously dysgenic and an invitation to 3rd world replacers.

    • Agree: Alfred, Wizard of Oz
    • Thanks: Pheasant
  10. “[1] Of course, traditional norms are not uniformly adaptive in an evolutionary sense. In Catholic Europe, the specific expression of these norms was partially determined in a top-down fashion by the particular doctrines of the Church. Several important Catholic doctrines may be considered maladaptive or dysgenic, notably the the sacralization of fetuses (retarding the development of medical technologies), the ban on abortion, and the drive to convert all human beings to the faith regardless of ethnicity.”

    The so called most evil man in the world Alasteir Crowley wrote that abortion was the sin against the Holy Spirit – the one that cannot be forgiven. He seemed to indicate mercy towards women who had been hoodwinked by the clever into killing their babies so I think his opinion was directed to those who promoted abortion.

    You write like Jew and its not surprising that Jews are the promoters of some of the most evil forms of abortion. Elsewhere I have written about connections between the Hyksos and Jews that supports the claims of Josephus and links the Aecient Egyptian god Seth (the proto Satan) with the god of the Jews. Perhaps not coincidentally Seth was associated with abortion (undesired) in Ancient Egyptian mythology.

    The Greek writer Dioderus Siculus described how a pregnant women convicted of a capital crime in Ancient Egypt was allowed to give birth before execution because it was unjust to take the life of an innocent. The Greek way of infanticide was maybe picked up through their relationship with the Hyksos post Exodus from Egypt.

    You write about the sacralization of fetuses and this recalls the Bes Coffins carrying the remains of stillborn births in Ancient Egypt that were regarded as babies and buried as humans. The most famous example comes from the tomb of Tutankhamun in which his presumed offspring is given the name Osiris – the god of resurrection. Then again a text from Ancient Egypt describes how babies in their mothers wombs have their face turned towards Osiris.

    • Thanks: Pheasant
  11. I will not mourn the passing of Christianity or catholism — even if many of the practices & beliefs are in themselves of value. Christianity is over 2000 years old — rightly or wrongly, our world has very little reflection in the new testament. (I refuse to even entertain the old testament — it should NEVER have been allowed to get its claws into the “new”). Sadly, we have yet to find a secular basis strong enough to uphold a mixture of traditional & progressive values.
    “After the Second World War, the emergence of an affluent society meant that the egalitarian and individualist tendencies of liberalism, which had always been present since at least the eighteenth century, would dramatically radicalize and upturn the social order.”
    There is nothing, beyond cultural idiosyncrasies, which puts France outside the tidal wave of modern — then neoliberal capitalism. Capitalism naturally atomises cultures, individuals etc. NOTHING may — for long — stand in the way of the totalising Market. the Market has no room for restrictive “traditions”.
    Individuals can rarely struggle above the flood tide of contemporary ideology.
    “It is unclear what are the limits, if any, to the disintegration of traditional norms, roles, and identities. The French have disconnected sex from procreation (contraceptives, abortion), mother-father complementarity in parenting (divorce, gay marriage), and the idea of the individual as part of a lasting family, lineage, or nation.”
    Why ? Why this “no limits” ? Because, the market. The market presents itself as magic, an engine for the fulfilment of every/any desire — its only limits are technological & ….your own capacity to gorge thru its fruits ( ie do you have enough MONEY ?).
    The author here is on track — but often can’t see the forest for the trees.

  12. … nor Pope Paul VI’s July 1968 encyclical Humanae vitae recalling of the ban on contraception seem to have had much impact.

    Recall? Didn’t Humanae Vitae reaffirm the church’s ban on contraception?

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  13. dimples says:

    Having attended a Catholic service as a protestant observer I can attest that Catholicism gives the impression of being a very weird religion with many strange rituals and practices (such as the sad celibate priesthood) that never made much sense a long time ago and even less in this day and age, ie since 1500. Perhaps the Reformation is finally coming to France after all. Although sadly, it will be a Muslim reformation, with lots of annoying mosques. A New Dark Age, both figuratively and literally.

    If its spiritual power is gone, is it not better to let Catholicism die a natural healthy death rather than let it be taken over and corrupted from within by homos, as has happened to the protestants.

    • Troll: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @Rocha
    , @aname
  14. cranc says:
    @animalogic

    After the Second World War, the emergence of an affluent society meant that the egalitarian and individualist tendencies of liberalism, which had always been present since at least the eighteenth century, would dramatically radicalize and upturn the social order.

    For me, it would be best understood as the interrelation of energy availability and the Money Power. Durocher even mentions the turning of the tide with regard to marriage as co-inciding with the oil shock of the 1970s. This was also the turning of the tide with respect to finance regulation and saw the beginning of the complete take over of government by finance.

    Capitalism and socialism alike atomise cultures. The forces of the state and of private corporations both see communities as obstacles due to their familial reprocity, gift economies, innate trust and heartfelt value systems. The dichotomy lies one level higher up : the materialist drive toward a technologised ‘progressive’ society, with capitalist economics and socialist re-valuing working in tandem to that end.

    The question that is not asked enough is what will be the impact upon the values of our liberal world – one enabled by a huge surplus of energy, and now predicated upon unserviceable debt – as things inevitably contract ?

    • Agree: Pop Warner
    • Replies: @JM
  15. Alfred says:

    The father and husband’s economic responsibilities to the household were increasingly substituted by the corporation and the State.

    The need for the “reset” is because all European governments are bankrupt. They have known for many years that they will never repay their debts. But now, the only entities that will lend money at negative interest rates are the central banks. The European bond market is broken.

    In view of this, the role of the state and corporations in France is bound to diminish. The large corporations are monopolies. They are not a sign of success. This is going to be an extremely unpleasant process. All these people who have abandoned their traditional roles are in for a shock. The only survivors will be those with strong families and useful economic skills.

    Here is the real reason for the ongoing crash. France with less fuel is stuffed – like everyone else.

    • Agree: Verymuchalive
    • Thanks: Joe Levantine
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wizard of Oz
  16. Nalca says:
    @Jim Christian

    To ignore Jewish influence in all this is wretched folly.

    Perhaps it’s because Durocher live in France, and he do not want to go to the same place as Hervé Ryssen.

    • Replies: @frankie p
  17. anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:

    Seems like both Orwell and Huxley were right about the futures they predicted. Western man has embraced both jack-booted tyranny and whack-a-doodle social and sexual engineering. Believe it or not they exist side by side throughout Europe and North America. Neither the Savage nor Winston Smith could take any of this craziness.

  18. Rocha says:

    It’s amazing that the author does not mention the effect of Vatican II on the decline of Catholicism world wide when the dogmas of the Faith concerning salvation were denied and the millennial teachings about Jews abandoned.
    This too we owe to the infiltration of cryptos into the Catholic Church.
    The Spanish Inquisition served a purpose.
    The so-called traditional sects teach the same heresies as the main Church and both the traditional and the sedevacantists are heretical in their puritanism. The Catholic faith has been destroyed by the two quintessential American heresies of Puritanism and Liberalism.
    Anyone interested in what it was like to live through the convulsions produced by Vatican II should read ‘While the Eyes of the Great are Elsewhere’ by Biersach.
    Belloc wrote that the ‘Faith is Europe and Europe is the Faith.’ Once the Faith was denied at Vatican II, Europe’s fate was sealed.

    • Disagree: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @Jake
    , @anarchyst
  19. Dumbo says:

    It will not last. Liberalism = death. A culture of people too sleazy and coward to stand for anything.

    They will be replaced. By what, I do know not yet; some may say Muslims, but the future may be surprising. A Catholic revival would be welcome, but not very likely at this point. France is finished. It was nice while it lasted.

  20. LoneWolf says:

    With no natural law or order in man, how can there be anything supernatural any more? (What nature is there to be above?). There can be no more 10 Commandments (which express the natural law); no more charity, (which is the beginning and end of the ten Commandments); no more natural religion (constituted by the natural law); no more social life (which presupposes natural justice); nor Christian life (which presupposes natural virtues); and so on and so on. In fact if there is no natural law, all notion of a Christian society becomes impossible, either as society or as Christian.
    That, in essence, is what has happened to France (and the rest of what was formerly Christendom, for that matter).

  21. Rocha says:
    @dimples

    Having attended ONE Catholic service you claim to be able to be an expert on the Catholic religion which founded western civilization and without which you Protestants would not have the Bible to idolize or even exist!
    We are told to judge something by its fruits.
    The Catholic Church founded the greatest civilization that has ever existed in terms of learning, art, music architecture etc.
    Whereas the Reformation resulted in the legalization of usury, the privatization of the issue of the currency, our current slavery to the debt based financial system, ugly architecture, music art and literature and in the case of the Anglos disgusting food!
    Read the History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland by William Cobbett, a Protestant, to understand the deleterious effects that the Reformation had on England and the English people! It is available on kindle.

    • Agree: Neuday
    • Thanks: Pheasant
  22. Rocha says:
    @Miro23

    The CATHOLIC FAITH which was defined at the Council of Nicaea is the SAME FAITH that was handed down from the Apostles and only abandoned at Vatican II when it the dogmas concerning salvation were denied.
    The dogmas of the Catholic Faith were refined with the appearance of each heresy but never changed or denied except during the Arian heresy and then again at Vatican II.
    How did the Church Fathers identify and combat each heresy? Be referring to the teachings handed down to them by the Apostles.

  23. gotmituns says:

    The Church has been saying a long goodbye for over a hundred years. Now, with the birth of computers and the isolation of the young people from their physical surroundings and human interaction, the Church will completely die out within 20 years or so.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  24. The fruits of the Second Vatican Council. A betrayal of the Church carried out by the prelates. Something that they do not want to recognize, and they continue with their destruction.
    However, in the traditionalist camp you can see the true face of Catholicism.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @Rocha
  25. catholicism is declining while catastrophic islam and judaïsm are increasing : That’s the antechrist.

  26. Jake says:
    @Priss Factor

    While you have overstated about how you can bash Mohammedanism and Mohammedans in France, you are correct about Jews. This is a religious war: kulturkampf is religious war. Anti-Christ Jews always end up in the driver’s seat in that game, holding the whip.

    France is now obviously in suicide mode because France has never repented of The Revolution, which was anti-Christ and anti-Christendom in a most pure form.

    It is either Christ and Christendom or Chaos out of which Jews will be revealed as Master Race overseeing serfs. Either France begins to do penance for The Revolution and begins to rebuild Christendom, or France will die horribly before too many decades pass.

    The great problem for those of us of European stock is that we’ve all been Anglicized significantly, and WASP culture is born 0f the Judaizing heresy Anglo-Saxon Puritanism. Ton be Anglicized necessarily is to be Judaized, to be drawn into mild acceptance of all things Jewish while coming to look with revulsion upon all things that reflect the heritage of Christendom. WASP empire is Anglo-Zionist Empire, and WASP Empire has set the cultural dancing tunes for the world increasingly over the previous two and a half centuries.

    You can’t rebuild Christendom with Protestantism; Protestantism is the necessary first destroyer of Christendom, paving the way for Jews. And you can’t rebuild Christendom with English as the international language – English is the international language of both Protestantism and of Jews.

    You want to stop this decay? There is only one way: Christ and Christendom.

  27. Jake says:
    @Dum Spiro Spero

    Correct.

    And that means that all things Novus Ordo/Vatican II fall into one of two camps: the camp of water treading that accomplishes nothing, and the camp that serves the cause of anti-Christ.

  28. Jake says:
    @Rocha

    Isn’t the author a Freemason? Or at least friendly to Freemasonism?

  29. Enzo B. says:

    Popes (affiliated to Rome) work for the CFR of Henry Kissinger. Why?

    After the Anglo-Saxons conquerred Canada’s Bas Canada in 1763, it is said that the Rothschild went to Rome to establish a French (or Latin) connection for the City of London and the Swiss bankers.

    Hence, the Roman Catholic connection is, in my opinion, a tool used by the Anglo-US banks and NATO against the Orthodox Church, i.e., to conquer Russia. All politicians must be strongly Anti-Russia and pro-Croats, pro-Albanians, and pro-Kosovo,as this Biden.

    In the picture, why did they cut the trees like this? It’s extremely ugly. It seems they want to choke the trees. Disgusting. Is this what one can call the Respect of life?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  30. @animalogic

    Reading the article I kept thinking Catholicism and Christianity has changed so much in my lifetime. It is just a theatrical subset of liberalism now. The market really has become the god for the masses.

    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  31. Rocha says:
    @Dum Spiro Spero

    No you don’t! The so-called traditionalist camp teach the same heresies and deny the same dogmas about salvation as the main heretical Church.
    In his Letter to Confused Catholics the arch deceiver Lefebvre states on pg 74 or thereabouts that Protestants, Muslims , Buddhists AND EVEN ANIMISTS can be saved by Baptism of Desire explicit and IMPLICIT!
    He then goes on to elaborate on these heresies when he tells an African boy that as long as he isn’t in a state of mortal sin he will be saved by BOD .
    This has lead to an immense confusion amongst the traditional catholics I know who now believe that a mortal sin is worse than original sin and thus debasing the foundational belief of the Catholic Church.
    The Church was contaminated by the American heresies of liberalism and puritanism before Vatican II. The main Church fell into the claws of liberalism and the ‘holier than thous’ reaffirmed their moral superiority by joining the traditional sects or the sedevacantists.
    I am lucky enough to have been catechized pre Vatican II and the majority of Catholics were not Puritans. Catholics sang, danced, smoked and drank with the best of them.
    The Pharisees like the poor will always be with us.
    Puritanism is a gnostic heresy which denies the DOGMA of the Catholic Faith that GOD CREATED A GOOD WORLD.

  32. It’s a pity that leaving the Catholic church, as I did nearly 40 years ago, should result in people essentially committing to another religion (by this I mean the religion of meeeeeeeeeee),

    I walked away from the church without rancour when my late mother stopped going to mass.

    Essentially my mother just got tired of listening to the various priests lecturing the people whilst living in whatever manner suited themselves, like the housekeeper of the local parish priest also being his lover etc,

    I never rejected the basic values of the church just how it was run and by whom,

    When a value system is being replaced, that’s fine if you have something to replace it with,

    Our western world now has almost no values to speak of left,

    And being Irish I’m fully cogniscant of how Protestantism is no more than Catholicism for horney English kings, as we say here in Ireland, Protestantism was built on the bollix of Henry the 8th.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @Dumbo
  33. JRB says:

    Interesting article. I recently learnt that in Rotterdam the Collapse of Catholicism started much earlier then I thought before. Some churches that were built in the 1910’s already had to be closed in the 1930’s due to lack of people visiting them. I would not be amazed to learn that the same happened in parts of Paris even earlier.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  34. “If we look a century or two ahead, assuming humans are still ruling the roost, it seems probable the Earth will naturally fall to believers.”

    Muslims… that is!

  35. frankie p says:
    @Nalca

    God bless Herve Ryssen, and
    God bless Alain Soral, and
    God bless Dieudonne M’balla M’balla

  36. @Old and Grumpy

    The market up to when? Covid restrictions supported by the PTB has wreaked havoc on the markets. Are the markets to metamorphose into something new away from unrestricted consumption to something more sinister?

  37. The author seems to have cognitive dissonance when it comes to abortion. He acknowledges that it is part of the social liberalism which is associated with the death of western countries but he seems to be in favor of it anyways. The overwhelmingly vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with eugenics. I don’t know about France, but in the US less than 1% of abortions are due to genetic defects. As for the supposed benefits of embryo selection, the psychological benefit of the “sacralization of fetuses” on the family outweighs the cost. Eugenicists don’t have children. Trad Caths do.

  38. @Rocha

    “ Whereas the Reformation resulted in the legalization of usury, the privatization of the issue of the currency, our current slavery to the debt…”

    Read Usury in Christendom by Michael Hoffman. It will clear many misconceptions.

    • Replies: @Rocha
  39. @Rocha

    The baptism of desire is Catholic doctrine, still confirmed by Saint Augustine, remembered by the Council of Trent and Saint Pius X.

  40. Pheasant says:
    @Da's Reich

    ‘And being Irish I’m fully cogniscant of how Protestantism is no more than Catholicism for horney English kings, as we say here in Ireland, Protestantism was built on the bollix of Henry the 8th.’

    You mean Anglicanism. Actual protestantism (Lutheranism, Calvinism and all the others) is very semitic in beliefs and practices and is to me (a pure European) much more alien. I agree with you about the people who run the church. I have as my cousin an Irish bishop and he is obviously gay and cannot say a funeral mass properly (he did it for the funeral of a relative). Henry the 8th almost certainly died a (bad) Roman Catholic.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Da's Reich
  41. joe862 says:

    catholicism is just christianity repurposed to suit the agenda of the roman empire. It prepares people for exploitation. I hope at some point it can be replaced by something better.

  42. @Rocha

    What we were taught in history lessons is that Puritans were considered a heretical sect in Protestant England and were banished to the new world where they spoke about establishing the New Jerusalem as a shining city on a hill. This city we know as the USA. “ by their deeds you shall know them” and what a phenomenal city the USA has been for the world !

    I hope some commentator would enlighten us about the true creed of the Puritans.

    • Replies: @Rocha
  43. gotmituns says:
    @fayez chergui

    Gett’a grip on yourself fella. No one’s becoming a Jew.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  44. Z-man says:
    @GazaPlanet

    France has more Jews than Britain. Britain is even more completely owned by ‘them’ than the French, sad.

  45. Rocha says:

    From 732 and the Battle of Tours onwards it was the Catholic Church and/or Catholic monarchs and leaders that defended Europe from numerous Muslim invasions.
    Queen Elizabeth I refused the Pope’s invitation to participate in the Battle of Lepanto instead ordering her Navy to join forces with the Ottomans in looting the Spanish ships on the Mediterranean.
    At the last great battle of Vienna in 1689, some of the Protestant sects fought on the side of the Ottomans.
    However with the denial of the Faith at Vatican II, the Church and the traditional sects now teach that Muslims may be saved through Baptism of Desire.
    What an insult to the martyrs who died to defend Europe from the Muslim scourge.

  46. @fayez chergui

    That’s the antechrist.

    Not to be picky, but I think you may have meant antichrist. Anti is against. Ante is before.

  47. Dumbo says:
    @Da's Reich

    Essentially my mother just got tired of listening to the various priests lecturing the people whilst living in whatever manner suited themselves, like the housekeeper of the local parish priest also being his lover etc,

    I think the Church or at least part of it, being an human institution has always being fallible and corrupt. There’s a famous story by Bocaccio about that (About a Jew converting to Catholicism). All men are sinners so it’s not possible to do otherwise. But it was usually better than the alternative.

    But Vatican II was a disaster. It really ended the moral authority of the Church. Current “Pope” Francis is just “marxism light” and completely in the hands of globalists/jews.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Da's Reich
  48. AaronB says:

    Fascinating.

    I particularly appreciate the lack of moralizing, and the attempt to see the issue not as a good vs evil battle, but simply as a question of what works in what environment. It clears the air and creates the possibility for a really objective analysis instead of defensive emoting, understandable as a defense mechanism, but not helpful.

    If ethics are mankinds attempts to create guidelines for surviving in a risky world, then we can look at a set of values and a lifestyle as a “technology” – a device for securing a particular goal, survival. Values and lifestyles don’t have intrinsic value and are not sacrosanct. They are answers to particular problems humans find in their environment, adaptations.

    Traditional lifestyles were answers for particular problems arising in particular conditions. The technological revolution, and the rise of affluence, may have permanently changed the environment humans have to devise solutions to.

    In this sense, people who want to return to traditional lifestyles are not “deplorables”, and not “bad”, they are simply people who have not benefited from the rise of affluence, or for one reason or another have not internalized the change in conditions and are still running the old software.

    The question of convention is interesting. Social convention is an attempt to impose order on a chaotic world, but even as it creates a feeling of security it is also stifling and irksome, and anti-natural in many ways.

    Mankind has always been deeply ambivalent about social convention, and has always recognized its downsides and the need for release from it. In the Middle Ages, you would have the Fools Carnival, where for a day, all social hierarchies are overturned. In Japan, where convention is stricter than elsewhere, society allows one to get drunk, act like a fool, and pass put drunk on the street, without shame. Taoism and Zen, are basically revolutions against the anti-natural cramping and suppression of personality created by social convention.

    So a person’s attitude toward social convention will be in large measure determined by his need for security – or his chronic sense of fear. People with a higher sense of anxiety, will want to enforce strict social rules, to wrap himself in a cocoon of safety.

    However, ones sense of anxiety is determined not only by risks in one’s environment, but also by psychological and metaphysical factors. The ancient Taoists faced an environment as harsh and risky as everyone else, but arrived at metaphysical insights that gave them a sense of cosmic security, so to speak, and freed them from the stifling, cramping need for social convention. Or better put, the Taoists saw the need for security was a trap.

    Above all, we shouldn’t moralize about this. To understand all is to forgive all. And everyone is acting with good reason as best they understand, and everyone has something right about their position. Hegel said its trivial to see where a man is wrong, the important thing is to discover what truth there his in his position

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @nokangaroos
  49. Dumbo says:
    @gotmituns

    Jews don’t want anyone to become a Jew. Actually, it’s impossible (except through birth, marriage (?), or rare cases of accepted conversion).

    But Jews are not declining. Actually the haredim are growing. The same cannot be said about faithful Christians, whose numbers dwindle.

    Islam, I think it’s half-half. It is also suffering the same secularizing pressure, but it’s (so far) a bit more resistant, perhaps because it has not been so much a target as Christianity was for the last 100 or even 200 years. Yet, they are not as ascendant as they think. Their numbers grow somewhat, but more among non-whites – and among liberal non-whites, who always take the side of non-whites. So it’s possible some dumb liberals will probably become muslims. Even that trainwreck Sinnead O’Connor converted to Islam, lol.

    But on the long run, I don’t know. I think a more conservative Catholicism is also resurfacing, here and there. Also, Christianity is growing in Asia (this may not seem relevant to Europeans now, but it may be, when China/Russia becomes the new center of power and the United States fades into chaos and irrelevancy.)

    • Replies: @gotmituns
  50. Rocha says:
    @Joe Levantine

    I have no misconceptions. I read Barren Metal by E M Jones and The History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland by William Cobbett, a Protestant.

  51. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    Also, sociologically speaking, the rise of science, may substitute for social convention in creating that feeling of security.

    Science and convention may serve the same human need – dealing with a risky world, to ultimately survive and flourish.

    But the rise of science may have provided an alternative source of security, and thus “loosened” the need for social convention as the primary source of security.

    What I have noticed about “scientistic” people, transhumanists, IQists, and the like, is that they treat it sort of like a strict social convention against which you cannot transgress, rather than a free pursuit of truth. This makes sense if science for them answers the need traditional social convention uses to, the need for security, and isnt the bold, exhilirating pursuit of the unknown that the best scientists understood it to be.

    In other words, science as a sociological phenomena and social institution, filling the old role of tradition and convention, and not as a flight into the unknown.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  52. @Enzo B.

    Several ways to think about the trees (the photo was a genius selection, by the way).

    They appear to be quite old and would have had very large crowns. It’s possible there were many dead or diseased branches in the crown.

    Many arborists resist pruning a tree by vigorously cutting back branches, as was done to these trees. They argue that the new growth that will emerge will be weak and prone to being damaged in a storm, etc. There’s some truth there: new growth is tender and must be specially cared for; not all of new growth will survive.

    But I say the key statement is that New Growth Will Emerge.

    Branches must constantly be renewed, those that no longer perform their function toward keeping the tree alive and fruitful must be removed so that energy and nutrients will support branches that are fruitful.

    The essential part of the tree is its oldest part–

    “Heartwood is dead wood in the centre of the tree. It gives the tree its strength.”

    https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library/documents/treebook/parts.htm

    In the photo of those shorn trees and the sad, grey church, the heartwood appears to remain and still able to support new growth. A tiny flicker of Hope, for France, for Catholicism.

    ALSO
    John 15

    “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

    “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

  53. Rocha says:
    @Joe Levantine

    The Puritans are gnostics that is they believe that the material world is inherently evil and the source of evil . That results in their apocalyptic obsessions and their ban drinking etc.
    The Christians zionists like Pence and Pompeo, share their apocalyptic obsession and thus their desire to do everything to facilitate the final battle of Armageddon.
    The American civilization is the worst in the world has produced nothing of value in terms of the arts, was responsible for two world wars , financed both the Bolshevik revolution and the Ascension of Hitler and is thus responsible for the genocide of the Russians , Germans and Ukrainians.
    The USA ensured the survival of communism which resulted in the genocide of the Chinese, Vietnamese and Cambodians.
    Is the source of moral relativism which has resulted in the feminist, transgender , homosexual movements which it has exported to the rest of the world.
    The USA has been at war for something like 220 years pf it’s 240 years existence. Most of the these wars have been to impose the debt based financial system and most of them were illegal aggressive wars based on false flags.
    I for one will be very happy when this huge behemoth and destroyer of western civilization implodes with the death of the petrodollar.
    The USA has devolved us back to the age of witch doctors and sorcerer with its promotion of consensus science.

    • Thanks: Joe Levantine
  54. IronForge says:

    Jesus-never-existed-dot-com

    Christianity is a Cult Authored by the Sponsorship of Constantine as a Favor to the Disdained Chrestus Cult Supporters who aided his Rise to the Seat of Emperor.

    Nicea was the place where the Cult was formulated – taking Characteristics and Elements from Mithras/Dionysus and others for the Dec25th Solstice/SaviorSinSacrifice/Resurrection Themes, while Plagiarizing Judaism for the Creation/History/EthicalCode/Messiah/FalseHopeFuture.

    The First Copies of the Gospels were Part of the First Copies of the Complete New Testament which were Part of the First Copies of the Complete Christian Bibles – All Commissioned, Compiled, and Published under the Directives of Constantine – Post Nicea.

    Fragments of earlier discourse and “Epistles” were discussing Chrestus.

    The Gospels appeared in the 4thCE. Who established the AD/CE Timeline?
    A Monk did so in the 6thCE Dark Ages. Since the Christian Control of Rome before the Fall into Dogmatic Dark Ages, presumptions were that the Return of Christ’s wait / 1000 years’ Reign were in place, so the Monk chose to Post Date Gospel Events 400+ Years Back to a newly established 01AD.

    Catholicism and their VAT are Hosts to probably the Largest Social Collective of Paedophile Clusters that infiltrate the Clergy and Layity. The Church tend to exert their Theocratic Exemptions over Secular States to Protect Offenders and themselves from Criminal+Civil Courts.

    Christianity and Catholicism are the Solution-Less Entrapment for Humanity. Progress, Spirituality, and Awareness of Peoples are Limited by the Fraudulent Dogmas.

    Don’t blame the Societal Collapse on the abandonment of Catholicism, for Fraudulent Cults are NEVER the Solution for Societal Ills.

    Peoples need to Figure Out and Implement such Codes and Guidelines themselves.

  55. anarchyst says:
    @Rocha

    Protestants, especially Baptists have a “hard on” when it comes to hatred of the Catholic Church. They consider Catholics as an “enemy” and the Catholic Church to be satanic…
    Protestants believe in “sola scriptura” in which the “word” of the Bible is sacrosanct, despite the Bible being written by men, quite often with their own agenda. Even a shyster Schofield got his biblical licks in, elevating the jew and absolving the jews from responsibility for the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ.
    Protestants also believe that “good works” have no bearing on “salvation” (which I have a hard time with).
    In protestant doctrine, one can be a grievous sinner all of his life, hurting and destroying others, and on his deathbed profess a belief in Jesus Christ and will automatically be “saved”.
    Even if “good works” have no bearing on the possibility of “salvation” they can’t hurt…
    Yes, the Catholic Church has problems, and will always have problems, but has still done more for humanity than most.
    The first hospitals, educational institutions, and charity organizations in the middle ages and beyond were founded and run by the Catholic Church.
    Yes, the Catholic Church “went off the rails” by selling “indulgences” (a fast-track to heaven)-a big mistake.
    Even today, the Catholic Church sells “indulgences” of a sort–divorce being possible within the Church, being called “annulment”–which states that “no marriage existed”.
    These “annulments” are granted to Catholics, even after have been married for decades. Once again, “the power of the purse” figures in to the decision by the bishop. The greater the “contribution” the easier it is to get an “annulment”.
    Even abortion was legal within the Catholic Church (before the time of “quickening”) (when the soul is perceived to enter the body)…
    I make no excuses for the behavior of the Catholic Church. Hell, at one time, there were three “popes”…talk about confusion (lol).
    I stand by my statement that the “Vatican II Ecumenical Council” was a power grab by jews and protestants and was detrimental to the Catholic faith.
    Fortunately, there are “old-line” Catholic parishes that still exist, despite efforts by “(Novus Ordo)” clergy to stamp them out…

  56. anarchyst says:
    @Dumbo

    Actually much of the destruction of the Catholic Church occurred with the imposition of the changes that were brought on by the “Vatican II Ecumenical Council”.

    The beginning of the end of traditional Catholicism was sealed with the infiltration of the Catholic Church Vatican II Ecumenical Council of the 1960s by Jews and Protestants who were involved in the “modernization” of the Catholic Church.

    Much Catholic ritual and doctrine was discarded or changed, in order to reflect the “age” that we live in, as well as the promotion of the absolution of the Jews for Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and death, despite vitriolic Jewish hatred of Jesus Christ and Christianity which exists to this day.

    The fact is, the Jews DID get the Romans to crucify Jesus Christ and DID accept full responsibility for his crucifixion and death. As is the case today, they got others (Pontius Pilate) to do their “dirty work” for them…

    Prior to Vatican II, the jews WERE held responsible for the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. The changes brought on by Vatican II elevated the jews to a supremacist state, being described as “our elder brothers”–a BIG mistake and corruption of Catholic doctrine.

    The “new covenant” brought into being by Jesus Christ was reduced to that of a minor footnote in Catholic doctrine while jewish supremacy over Catholicism was firmly established.

    Abandoning the use of Latin in the Mass destroyed its universality. Previous to Vatican II, one could attend Mass anywhere in the Roman Catholic world and understand the meaning of the Mass.

    Prohibition of the celebration of the Tridentine Mass (except by special ecclesiastical permission) pushed many Catholics away from the new Modern Mass and the New Church, in general. It took a brave Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society of St. Pius X to push back” against Vatican II and re-legitimize the celebration of the pre-Vatican II Tridentine Mass and other Catholic rites.

    In pre-Vatican II times, the priest (celebrant of the Mass) was considered to be a part of the congregation, and a representative of the people.

    By turning the priest around to face the congregation, the priest was no longer a representative, but an actor, diminishing his status and importance.

    One area where the Catholic Church could improve itself involves celibacy, which is NOT Church dogma or doctrine. Celibacy was put in place during the middle ages in order to keep Church property from being inherited by family and relatives of priests and bishops. Celibacy was based on purely financial considerations, nothing more. It is interesting to note that Episcopal (Anglican) priests who convert to Catholicism can bring their families with them to the Church while Roman Catholic priests are denied marriage.

    It was a grave mistake by the Church to de-legitimize pre-Vatican II principles.
    Fortunately, there are Catholic organizations that subscribe to pre-Vatican II principles, one being the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX).

    • Replies: @Rocha
    , @Rocha
  57. gotmituns says:
    @Dumbo

    The mistake of the Church was allowing the Jew, Paul to set up their Church

    Then, they murdered the Arians.

    Then they violently forced the Nordic tribes to give up their Gods and accept the Jewish/Latin Church and now the entire swindle is finally done.

  58. @Jake

    France is now obviously in suicide mode because France has never repented of The Revolution, which was anti-Christ and anti-Christendom in a most pure form.

    The history of the French Revolution is murky and has long been suppressed, but it seems most likely that the Bavarian Illuminati played a leading role in it, either as instigators or subverters. Founded by Adam Weishaupt in 1776 and supported by Mayer Rothschild, it was soon exposed and banned in Bavaria for having the goals of revolution and undermining Christianity. The English undoubtedly also played a role. It had much of the characteristics of a modern color revolution, with a perhaps manufactured famine and shortage of food to enrage the peasants.

    The Reign of Terror in 1793 extended to a great genocide in the Vendée region of France where Catholics and especially Catholic priests were slaughtered en masse. They are still digging up the bodies.

  59. Agent76 says:

    August 13, 2019 THE POPE’S NEW WORLD ORDER Careful what you wish for, Holy Father.

    Globalism is, in short, a governing system whereby individual nations cede, or hand over, some of their national sovereignty to a kind of collective government.

    https://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/vortex-the-popes-new-world-order#disqus_thread

    Dec 22, 2019 Pope Says to NEVER Try to Convert Unbelievers

    The Pope recently stated, very adamantly, that we should never, ever verbally share the gospel with unbelievers. We should just let our lives win people to God. But is this biblical?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @aname
  60. anonymous[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @gotmituns

    Just curious where Gott mit uns expects Western Man to reside after those twenty years, in the Atheist camp or the Muslim camp? I don’t see any other major contenders, unless a stiff nuclear war shakes people into a desperate search for the good old days.

    • Replies: @gotmituns
    , @RoatanBill
  61. Anon[105] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfred

    Don’t think that the great reset will have to follow the script of your typical Hollywood post-Apocalypse movie. There’s always the Chinese Civil War won by Mao back in the 1940’s. Voila! Great oppression but great stability and persistence. Amidst all the poverty, suffering and death they never stopped reproducing and are now the emergent planetary hegemon.

  62. anon[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @Agent76

    What did you expect of a shepherd that handed sheep to the wolves to save his own skin?

    It amazes me that people talk up religion so much and yet ignore basic warnings and insights of the scripture. In this case, the Gospels have Jesus making an assertion about shepherds laying down their lives for the sheep. Even in Argentina.

    As a Muslim, I was revulsed to read that this pope redacted the Lord’s Prayer to drop the “Deliver us from evil”. No amount of humble foot washing shows can erase that. Unbelievable.

    But surprise? As a commentator up thread noted somewhat correctly, the Church of Jerusalem was subjected to a hijacking by a former Pharisee who is basically the prophet of what goes by the name of Christianity. Call it the Church of Peter if it pleases you, but even before a Roman overlord got his grubby hand on ‘it’, the religion was already hamstrung by Saul the _killer_ of Christians who went on to _lie_ about what if anything happened on the road to Damascus. [John 8:44 if you need the hint]

    My heartfelt believer to believer recommendation for fans of Jesus son of Mary is this: All you need is in the Gospels. Just stick to that.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  63. gotmituns says:
    @anonymous

    I would think in the future there’ll be a “Brave New World” scenario. There won’t be a “God” except in those areas designated backward/reservations.

  64. Rocha says:
    @anarchyst

    You are wrong there. The so called traditional sects deny the dogmas of the Faith concerning salvation which are that to be saved you need to be ; baptized with water; profess the Catholic faith and be a member of the Church .
    If you read the arch deceiver Lefebvre’s book Letter to Confused Catholics he spends the first half of his book bewailing that parents were no longer baptizing their children, only to state on page 74 or thereabouts that Protestants , Muslims, Buddhists and even animists could be saved by explicit and IMPLICIT baptism of Desire.
    IF THAT IS THE CASE WHY ARE CATHOLICS THE ONLY ONES THAT NEED TO BAPTIZE THEIR CHILDREN.
    This is a total insult to all the Martyrs that died at the hands of Muslims, Buddhists, Protestants and Animists rather than renounce the Faith.
    The so-called traditional sects were established to satisfy the demands of the holier than thou puritanical members of the Church.
    The dogmas of the Faith concerning salvation were confirmed by the Papal Bull Cantate Domino in 1492 or thereabouts and most recently confirmed by the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX .
    Anyone who states that BOD was always the teaching of the Church is a complete liar. The first and ONLY catechism to include BOD before Vatican II was the heretical Baltimore catechism published in 1864 and included to appease the Protestants.

    • Replies: @aname
  65. Rocha says:
    @anarchyst

    I recommend that you read the History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland by William Cobbet, a protestant, to understand the problems of having a married clergy.

    • Replies: @Rogue
  66. partacus says:
    @animalogic

    nothing to do with the “market”. real capitalism existed up to 1930 and the current collapse of the old system is due to socialism and the nanny state. abortion is paid by the state. divorce is possible because of welfare and alimony laws, and most media is owned by a small circle that do not like Petain. the author leaves a hint, but is afraid to speak freely.

  67. @Vehmic Juryman

    Abortion is disproportionately used by low IQ individuals.

    In the United States, almost half of abortions involve Black women and one third of Black fetuses are aborted. Admittedly, we do not have such statistics for France and it is possible Muslims are less likely to use it because of their comparative social conservatism.

  68. @AaronB

    Very interesting comments. Thank you!

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Thanks: AaronB
    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  69. @Digital Samizdat

    Ambiguous choice of words: I mean “recalled” as in “reminded” people about the ban.

  70. @Vehmic Juryman

    Eugenicists don’t have children. Trad Caths do.

    You’ve hit the nail on the head.
    On a similar note, a number of years ago, Prof Kevin MacDonald, wrote a couple of articles about Ultra Orthodox Jews in Israel . Israeli Jews are very secular in attitude ( see Eric Striker’s recent article ). These secular Jews produce few or no children. From memory, the Ultra Orthodox constitute about 10% of the Jewish population, but 50% of the births. MacDonald, being a much cleverer man than Durocher, drew the logical inference. Ceteris paribus, in 50 years time, the vast majority of Israeli Jews will be Ultra Orthodox Jews or their offspring, on current trends.

    Likewise, on current trends, it may well be that in 50 or 60 years time, most White French people will be trad Christians ( overwhelmingly Catholic, small numbers protestant or Orthodox ) or their offspring. This will be beneficial as it will result in greater solidarity amongst whites and enable them to form cohesive political units. This will be especially important if non-whites continue to grow as they have.
    The Secular Society contains the seeds of its own downfall. Its a dead end, historically and evolutionary. The future for White people will be very different.

    PS Clever choice of Handle. Though I do not think that you live in Germany !

  71. Z-man says:
    @Jake

    Interesting point about the Anglo Saxons and the English language.
    Don’t forget about Vatican II, where English and the other ‘live’ languages replaced Latin.

  72. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:

    A true religion appeals to the very core of a peoples DNA, and ensure that it strengthens the group.

    Christianity (Catholisism) does neither. It is for everybody, and cherish the meek.

    It is a semitic chutzpah to its core.

    What we are seing in the west today is the inevitable victory of a slave religion whose very icon is a dying man on a cross. The desperate attempt to make this death the sign of a victory is to demand victory through weakness. You do not get more anti-nature than that.

    And the French have nowhere to turn, so nihilism is the new cult.

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  73. anarchyst says:
    @anon

    Catholic Baptism is performed before the “age of reason” and is a sacrament that professes to the world that the infant is a part of Catholicism.
    Catholic Confirmation is an affirmation of Baptism, the Confirmant declaring that he will follow the tenets of the Catholic faith.
    THAT is the major difference between Catholicism and other Christian faiths. Other Christian faiths wait until the “age of reason” to perform Baptism.
    As to salvation, I must respectfully disagree with you. As I previously stated, a deathbed declaration of a belief in Jesus Christ without “good works” rings hollow.
    Let’s not forget the many “revisions” of the New Testament that were written by MEN with agendas of their own…

  74. @Guillaume Durocher

    Sorry to emote but you really always have struck me as a Jew in spirit and the satanic bilge you find interesting confirms it but then again some Greeks also claimed a relationship with Jews being “family” (Hyksos perhaps) no matter the hatred for the Greeks in the bible. Its is not an intellectual thing but rather of the spirit, You could read and discuss for all eternity and never get it.

  75. @Guillaume Durocher

    And promoted by high IQ people who con the simple into doing what is evil and contrary to nature.

  76. You object to Brazilians using Nordic seed. But you think Brazilians are inferior. Thus, I think you would approve of this. But you don’t. You people just allow yourself to be blown willy-nilly by your whims.

    Why be loyal to your heritage if your heritage is inferior?

  77. @Anon

    Its the conquest of death but its clear that in your chutzpah you know little about Christianity nor pre-Christian precedents.

  78. mcohen says:

    another reason to separate church and state.when one fails the other is not dragged down.

  79. anon[317] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pheasant

    What are the very Semitic beliefs and practices found in Protestantism?

  80. @Rocha

    Papyri from Ancient Egypt show in post mortem judgment scenes a little boy (imo a symbol for innocence) pouring water over the person who is about to be judged. (Papyrus Totonto 978×43.1) or on entering paradise and being given new clothes (Nebseni) with the latter recalling a scene from the Book of Revelations. Egyptologists also refer sometimes to the “Baptism of the Pharaoh”.

    The moral argument is that an omnipotent god cannot be good if he created a weak human being prone to all sorts of temptation and then condemns him to eternal punishment for a finite crime. The NT can be read to support such an outcome and that was pretty much mainstream until modern times. I think JP2 recognized this troubled people and stated that though there was a hell no claims were to be made about anybody being in it.

    In Ancient Egypt there is a temporary hell which serves as payback for crimes done but it is followed by annihilation.

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
    , @Rocha
  81. lysias says:

    There may well be a reaction after the coming collapse.

    The Romantic/Victorian 19th century followed the enlightened/libertine 18th.

  82. @Rocha

    ” ugly architecture, music art and literature and in the case of the Anglos disgusting food!”

    Protestant churches continued building beautiful churches until the 20th century and saying that the Anglos have disgusting food is simply your personal opinion. Did you know that the idea of the “fancy” French food was a created in England with the building of the Savoy Hotel in London in 1889 and the hiring of Cezar Ritz and Auguste Escoffier as hotel manager and Chef de Cuisine? Escoffier would go on to take traditional French food and turn it into something the upper classes wanted to be seen eating. Interesting story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_Escoffier
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy_Hotel

    • Agree: Rogue
    • Replies: @Rocha
  83. Mulegino1 says:

    France, once the “First Daughter of the Church” is cursed by the hostile twins infecting it like a cancer, Freemasonry and Jewry:

  84. Rogue says:
    @Rocha

    The Protestant Reformation didn’t just happen in England and Ireland, though.

    There’s a reason why Luther and Calvin are far more synonymous names to do with the Reformation.

    The Church of Rome was thoroughly corrupt at the time of the Reformation. If it had changed it’s corrupt ways, at least to some extent, in a spirit of humility, then it’s unlikely any actual Reformation would have happened. Or would have lasted very long.

    But the Church of Rome was not humble and, instead, doubled down in it’s arrogance.

    I say all this not because I’m anti Catholic – I once attended an Alpha course at a Catholic church and the folks there were fine Christians – but the Church of Rome is certainly much to blame for schisms that happened in the past.

    Take off the rose-colored spectacles.

  85. anon[348] • Disclaimer says:

    That Danish sperm bank has rather multicultural donors, so you are coping too much.

    Reason of popularity of that particular sperm bank is that Denmark laws allows donors to stay anonymous, for example when UK made option that children could find out who are their fathers, donations pretty much stopped, and UK women now order sperm from Denmark, since there is simply none in UK. But they still can choose British man, or Congolese, or whatever. I mean freaking thing is called Cryos International.

    That being said it seems rather based, since they have this as question : ‘Have you had sex with a man, who has had sex with another man?’ At their application.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
    , @anon
  86. Rogue says:
    @Jake

    And you can’t rebuild Christendom with English as the international language

    Umm, so why are you writing in English?

    And what a truly bizarre thing to have stated!

    There is no language on all of this Earth that has some sort of Divine imprimatur. And it’s certainly not the language of ancient pagan Rome, if that’s what you’re getting at.

    I mean, I get it that you dislike all things Anglo and also all things Protestant – but you’d have a tad more credibility not attacking the language that people are raised to speak in.

    • Replies: @JM
  87. @obwandiyag

    Oooo Chief Buick … but I do not object 😛
    Quasispecies theory means the dominant genotype need not exist in “pure” physical form (of course there are undesirable dilution effects from crossing over and the like).

    – The idea of improving slave quality (to give you something to not approve of)
    by “northing them up” was briefly aired in the penumbra of the Golden Circle but ultimately shelved because smarter slaves were considered too dangerous (teste the history of Haiti).
    But seriously – there already are PoC advocates who regard this as a kind of genocide 😀

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  88. Rogue says:
    @Rocha

    God created a good world

    I agree with what you wrote there, but must also say this:

    The Evangelical churches are far more likely to uphold what you have stated there, in that most of them reject the theory of evolution – as I do myself.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the official position of the church of Rome is that evolution (at the macro level) did take place.

    And the main reason that neo Darwinism jars with the creation account of the Bible, is that the former teaches of a far more unpleasant beginning to life on Earth.

    It’s difficult to believe in evolution and that God created a good world.

    So I reject the theory of evolution.

  89. JM says:
    @cranc

    “The question that is not asked enough is what will be the impact upon the values of our liberal world – one enabled by a huge surplus of energy, and now predicated upon unserviceable debt – as things inevitably contract ? ”

    Perhaps that’s what the Covidhoax-Reset is mainly about – the universal institution of Chinese style social repression to ensure the anticipated coming crash doesn’t lead to loss of Oligarchic control. This video in a very brief way explains the main elements of the system…

    • Replies: @Dum Spiro Spero
    , @Rogue
  90. @Guillaume Durocher

    Abortion is merely the last resort, most people take use of other forms of birth controll prior to needing a abortion. Some people may be more prone to use abortion as birth controll for reasons such as cultural norms and self discipline.

  91. @obwandiyag

    One of Norways biggest faults is our failure to share our seed with the world, as generously as our Danish brothers.

  92. Rogue says:
    @Rocha

    Well, William Cobbett the Protestant, wasn’t inspired to write scripture in the New Testament.

    So Paul’s writings about clergy marrying are a lot more relevant than whatever Mr Cobbett might have said.

    Both Jesus and Paul make it clear that being unmarried, and therefore abstaining from sex, is for those who can handle it.

    It’s clearly not good for most. That would include most clergy.

  93. @Rocha

    >ugly architecture, music

    as in Bach and Handel

    • Replies: @Rocha
  94. Anonymous[231] • Disclaimer says:

    As a euphoric atheist, let me make the following arguments:

    1. Back in 1900, when France was sending all those missionaries to Africa, it had the lowest fertility rate in Europe. Now, it has the highest fertility rate in Europe. Countries with a lot of religiosity, like Poland, often have low fertility rates.

    2. The automatic equation of all this stuff with “individualism” and “egalitarianism” is often wrong. Tattooing, for instance, is usually a mechanism of signalling adherence to a particular subcultural group. Oral sex is popular precisely because it’s degrading for the woman to do.

    3. While I’m not a fan of the practice, lesbian motherhood is and will continue to be rare. Lesbians in general don’t have much maternal instinct, they don’t get married much, and when they do they usually often stay married.(Even less likely to do so than gay men, see this funny economist article: https://www.economist.com/britain/2020/01/09/why-lesbian-couples-are-more-likely-to-divorce-than-gay-ones) The modal fatherless child will continue to be a dumb heterosexual woman who got impregnated behind some bar.

    4. If perfected, CRISPR gene editing will be used to subvert traditional norms by those who want to do so, but also to strengthen traditional norms by those who want to do so. There will be polygenic scores for one’s risk of divorce, many sexual partners, criminality, suicide, homosexuality, etc. Of course the Leftists will try to prevent you from doing these things, but China and India will be calling.

    5. What happens when this group of trad Catholics starts listening to their pope? One who’s been constantly drumming up support for open borders and far-Left economics? (I’d be fine with higher taxes on the very rich, but the Third Worldist crap he’s been calling for.)

    6. Who will these trad Catholics see as the outgroup? A nation of collectivists might well beat a nation of individualists, but how beneficial is it for a nation to have a growing mass of collectivists who see the majority of the nation as the outgroup? The trad Catholics won’t just look down on foreign Muslims and native French single mothers and deadbeat dads. They’ll also be hostile to the functional, monogamous, secular Frenchman who just doesn’t want to hear about David and Goliath any more than he wants to hear about Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia.

  95. @AaronB

    The “adaptivity” part is imho the salient one – but it seems Kant was right and a purely rational approach don´t work (H.K.Erben said the same from the human biologist side).
    The French were the first to institute the Cult of Reason (in the form of a naked actress; now ain´t that just like the French) and have not found the way back since.

    Is this the meaning of the warning not to eat from the Tree?

  96. JM says:
    @Rogue

    “I mean, I get it that you dislike all things Anglo and also all things Protestant…”

    To the point of besmirching both Newton and Darwin, exemplars of the best of Protestant England and European culture in general.

    • Replies: @Rogue
  97. @anonymous

    Atheism has been gaining for a long time; slow but steady increases. As people get smarter with more access to information, religion gets more and more ridiculous, especially Christianity with its trinity and Catholic scandals. Those TV evangelists didn’t help either.

    Intelligent people are slowly but surely waking up to the con. The primitives in countries with low IQ are prime Islam candidates as their scam is growing. Just what the world needs – violent believers in some political philosophy masquerading as religion.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  98. @JM

    They don’t have one thing: God and our souls.
    If we are willing to suffer and even die to defend what is the truth, we will win.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
  99. Rocha says:
    @Jack McArthur

    What a stupid comment. The Catholic Faith has the only explanation for the presence of evil in the world and the only remedy. Or do you deny the presence of evil?
    I judge things by their fruits and the fruits of Catholicism was the best civilization the world has ever seen in terms of intellectual activity, arts, music, social cohesion and welfare.
    The Reformation has brought us ugliness, slavery to a debt based financial system and CONSENSUS SCIENCE.
    We are now supposed to accommodate ourselves to a fictitious reality of a nonexistent virus and a nonexistent manmade climate change to usher in a new dystopian civilization of slavery, transhumanism and total control by an oligarchy bent on the extermination of 90% of mankind .

    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @gotmituns
    , @Jack McArthur
  100. @JRB

    The muslims will convert disused churches to their centers for annoying their neighbors several times a day.

  101. Rocha says:
    @Joe Paluka

    The only Protestant churches or music that had any semblance of beauty is because they were built under the influence of the mores of a Catholic civilization.
    European peasant food was not invented anywhere.
    It was monks of the Catholic Church that were responsible for producing the best wines , champagne, beers, cheeses, honey etc and were responsible for the introduction of the best agricultural practices in Europe.

    • Replies: @JM
  102. Well, one hates to say it, but Roman Catholic metaphysics have been weighed in the balance and found wanting, at least by me, someone who has been a staunch, long-time-published defender of its culture. Metaphysically speaking, I went with Taoism/Zen at age 16, nearly sixty years ago, although secularly, I am neither a Sinophile nor anti-Catholic.

    I was for a time convinced that the West needed a religious anchor and I’m stillinclined that way, but less and less as I see how youth has evolved in its thinking. Much as I’d like to have a positive influence on my still-small grandchildren, my guess is that they’ll find Grandpa something of a curiosity, a loving one to be sure, but with “strange” ideas and beliefs. I guess that may have to do.

  103. Rocha says:
    @Anonymouse

    Produced under a civilization that was still essentially Catholic! It was the monks of the Catholic Church that invented musical notation that enabled classical music.
    The further the society distanced itself from its Catholic roots the uglier everything became.

  104. gotmituns says:
    @Rocha

    All anyone has to know is obedience to nature’s law is obedience to God’s Law.

  105. The disney pope is a gay muslim. To go from Pope John Paul II to this clown is an observable fall from grace.

  106. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:

    As to salvation, I must respectfully disagree with you. As I previously stated, a deathbed declaration of a belief in Jesus Christ without “good works” rings hollow.

    Yeah, I was a little shocked to learn (in adulthood) that salvation in Catholicism requires more than just avoiding sin (a tall order for many people, including me). You have to live a life of virtue and doing the works of mercy (Sermon on the Mount). Which is more and more difficult these days when the traditional corporal works of mercy (feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, etc.) have been co-opted by the state (was this by design??). The way around this is to use the “Little Way” of St. Thérèse of Lisieux.*

    *It’s interesting that the 20th-century Catholic who most sought to devote her life to the works of mercy, Servant of God Dorothy Day, had a great devotion to St. Thérèse.

  107. Rogue says:
    @JM

    Well, I get what you’re saying.

    Our friend Jake is having a very most convenient tunnel vision of all the good, according to him, of what the church of Rome has accomplished.

    As for Darwin, he has unquestionably earned his place in history – but I don’t agree with his theories, or rather the modern theory of Neo-Darwinism.

    But, yes, to pretend that the people descended from Protestantism were all uncultured barbarians is entirely nonsensical.

    Probably this should be addressed to Rocha as well.

    • Replies: @JM
  108. Rogue says:
    @JM

    Klaus Shwab looks like a Ninja Turtle!

    Maybe he is one!!

    Good thing I never watched any of those crap movies to begin with …

    • Replies: @JM
  109. aname says:
    @dimples

    Strange rituals? What’s strange is what you see at protestant churches; dancing around, making animal sounds, laughing, televangelist, etc. The Mass is the highest prayer to God and Christ instituted it. The Latin and Eastern Church traditions and rituals at their mass and divine liturgy are thousands of years old. Although what you may have saw when you attended a “Catholic” “service” was actually the VII religion service which is not Catholic.

  110. JM says:
    @Rogue

    ‘Our friend Jake is having a very most convenient tunnel vision of all the good, according to him, of what the church of Rome has accomplished.’

    He’s likely under the influence of E Michael (‘Mick’) Jones, the ‘brains’ behind the current Roman Catholic revival within the broad anti-NWO movement. Though he sometimes comes across as a bigoted 1950’s Mick, much of his thinking has value. The sad part is that all this occurs in the midst of the deepest imaginable corruption in the Vatican with Pope Francis (‘Dirty Frank’) lining up with all of the Agendas of the Oligarchs. I wish it were otherwise, but surely this is no accident.

  111. aname says:
    @Rocha

    The Douay Catechism (17th century): “Q. 610. Can a man be saved without baptism? A. He cannot, unless he have it either actual or in desire, with contrition, or to be baptized in his blood as the holy Innocents were, which suffered for Christ.”

    The original Douay-Rheims bible commentary states baptism of desire and it was first printed in 1582. Many Saints going all the way back to the third century taught baptism of desire and blood.

    See: http://www.baptismofdesire.com/

    As far as it being the deposit of faith? Not so sure about that.

    • Replies: @Rocha
  112. JM says:
    @Rogue

    ‘Klaus Shwab looks like a Ninja Turtle!’

    Well, when I see him in action, he’s like a caricature of a Hollywood ‘Nazi’, complete with everything but the SS uniform. What a vile product of the modern age…and in a way testimony, not to the influence of the ‘Nazis’, but to the decay of German sovereignty and national dignity since the War.

    • Agree: Rogue
  113. aname says:
    @Agent76

    “Churchmiliant” aka Michael Voris and company are apostate judaizers. They promote the noahide laws.

  114. JM says:
    @Rocha

    ‘The only Protestant churches or music that had any semblance of beauty is because they were built under the influence of the mores of a Catholic civilization.
    European peasant food was not invented anywhere.
    It was monks of the Catholic Church that were responsible for producing the best wines , champagne, beers, cheeses, honey etc and were responsible for the introduction of the best agricultural practices in Europe. ‘

    And in all these areas, the civilization that unfolded under the Catholic Church did so on the back of the Pagan societies of Ancient Rome and Greece which were advanced in all of these arts. And Protestantism, having been the beneficiary of Catholic civilization, proceeded to make its own developments most of which were anything but regressive.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  115. joe862 says:

    The catholic vs. protestant thing needs to include some basic discussion of ratios. Old Catholicism requires almost everyone to be a member of an impoverished peasant class. The catholic church impoverishes them further with demands for donations. Those donations allow the elites to cultivate the arts, build big fancy churches, etc.

    When a society has classes they can breed more extreme people. The laborer class will have the most extremely labor capable people. The Upper classes will breed some extremely smart people. This isn’t that subtle. There must be downsides to the society with inflexible class systems or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. There has to be another step.

  116. @Dum Spiro Spero

    Never get in a fight with a man who is willing to die. I think they even used this in Lawrence of Arabia but I don’t remember that terrible movie well at all so I may be confusing it with another movie.

  117. @nokangaroos

    “as long as we have plenty” indeed. Australia will be able to run something that can be called a democracy quite satisfactorily unless and until China can force down the price of iron ore to its 21st century lows. Not many countries are as lucky. Maybe Japan and South Korea, but they are not multicultural.

  118. @animalogic

    What is your alternative to the evolving capitalism which has allowed human ingenuity to flourish with longer, healthier lives working fewer hours and so on? Are we now to say ‘we’ve done well, we know enough , it’s time for paternalistic control of what we’ve got”?

    • Replies: @128
  119. @Alfred

    That second graph is utterly ridiculous. How do you justify it having regard to China’s building of power stations? And France won’t run out of fuel as it is the biggest user of nuclear power, at least in proportion to population. Uranium is not in short supply. Nor is thorium I believe.

  120. @anon

    Is there data on preferred donors?

  121. anon[317] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    In the New World White is White. Europe leans towards Nordicism though. No swarthy Euro wants Congoid jungle juice. Europeans want Nordic seed because Nordics conquered nearly all of them and they want their offspring to have lighter features. Denmark, Sweden, and Norway have the highest quality water and semen. The choice is simple.

  122. 128 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Ordoliberalism? Worked well for West Germany and Austria.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  123. @Rocha

    I assume you are referring to the following passage I wrote:

    The moral argument is that an omnipotent god cannot be good if he created a weak human being prone to all sorts of temptation and then condemns him to eternal punishment for a finite crime. The NT can be read to support such an outcome and that was pretty much mainstream until modern times. I think JP2 recognized this troubled people and stated that though there was a hell no claims were to be made about anybody being in it.

    In Ancient Egypt there is a temporary hell which serves as payback for crimes done but it is followed by annihilation.

    Now you have the opportunity of explaining and convincing me of my stupidity – show me where I err and demonstrate you are not indulging in the sin of ecclesiolatry. Specifically justify what you seem to approve i.e. eternal punishment for a finite crime and why a conscience should be at ease by this.

    The other points you mention do not relate to anything I have written so please just stick to this single issue.

  124. @128

    Is the important part of that for the average person significantly different from what the CCP provides?

  125. @nokangaroos

    Hey, you’re the same troll as the other one! Only with a different name!

    The light bulb just went on above my head.

    Congratulations on earning another quarter thanks to my response.

    • LOL: nokangaroos
  126. Anonymous[338] • Disclaimer says:

    What was the role of Catholicism in the rise of the European powers? decline?…It seems that you did not address the main INTERNAL FACTORS…Does the catholic church wants to remain Catholic/Christian? has the Catholic church give UP on its most inner sacrossant principles?? Is there a hidden agenda of JUDAIZATION of the Catholic church?…I remember attending Catholic Private school I asked the priest, most of them OLD and few..I asked him ..since the Catholic Church runs so many educational institutions from prek-Universities…why is it that so few of the young “catholics” become priests,nuns, practicing catholics.Many yung people once they become professionals and start their own families they become more secular, more liberal,,,and sadly many become anti catholic/anti christian…WHY???…BUT the VATICAN seems indifference to this bleak future…

  127. Emslander says:

    It is noteworthy that today’s practicing French Catholics are much more likely to be religious out of sincere individual zeal rather than socially conformist pressure. If we look a century or two ahead, assuming humans are still ruling the roost, it seems probable the Earth will naturally fall to believers.

    What an end to an essay outlining the dystopianism of the present time! Of course, Those who believe will eventually replace those who practiced out of perceived social, financial or governmental mandates.

  128. @Pheasant

    I suppose I do mean Anglicanism, the British State and its officials that ran Ireland for many centuries were indeed Anglicans,

    Anglicanism became the ‘established church’ in Ireland and was funded by a ‘tithe’ on the meager earnings of the Irish peasantry, and the priests/vicars of Anglicanism live opulently even as the Irish starved and emigrated in their millions,

    The Catholic church in Ireland today has completely abandoned their flock to the corona scam and even the pope referred to us non mask wearers in a very negative manner,

    Add to that the fact that the covid vaccine contains cells of aborted humans and Catholics have been told by the church that it is ethical to take this vaccine even if you abhor abortion,

    It’s very interesting watching the Catholic church cut its own throat.

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  129. @Dumbo

    The church in Ireland has no moral authority left mainly because of how it dealt with the pedophiles in its ranks,

    My wife is trying to convince me not to spray ‘What Would Jesus Do’ on the front of my local Catholic church, I want to do this to highlight how they have abandoned the few that still have faith in them to the corona scam,

    What was the name of that Catholic bishop who correctly denied the holohoax yarn and got thrown under the bus on the say so of the Jews?

    You couldn’t make this up.

  130. Rocha says:
    @aname

    You don’t know the Catholic Faith which is comprised of dogmas! These are the oral teachings transmitted to the
    Apostles by Christ and defended by the Church until Vatican II.
    They were refined with the appearance of each heresy but never changed or denied. The dogmas regarding salvation are ; baptism with water, profess the Catholic faith and be a member of the Church.

    [MORE]

    In the Acts of the Apostles both St Paul and the family of Cornelius that had received instruction in the Faith through the Holy Spirit HAD TO BE BAPTIZED WITH WATER.
    You are calling Christ a liar if you say that anyone can be saved by blood or desire.
    Christ THE SON OF GOD stated that baptism with water and FAITH were necessary and that was the teaching of the Church until VATICAN II.
    I was catechized fortunately before Vatican II and I can guarantee that all Catholics of the time believed in the doctrine of EENS.
    This doctrine was confirmed by the Athanasian creed, the Papal Bull Cantate Domino which specifically condemns the idea of baptism by blood, and the Syllabus of Errors by Pope Pius IX.
    If salvation could be achieved by desire, or invincible ignorance or blood why did Christ instruct the Apostles to go to all nations, preach the Gospel and BAPTIZE.
    In the Nicean creed we specifically state that we believe in ONE BAPTISM FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.

  131. @Da's Reich

    Add to that the fact that the covid vaccine contains cells of aborted humans and Catholics have been told by the church that it is ethical to take this vaccine even if you abhor abortion,

    Thank you for highlighting this. I will not under any circumstances be vaccinated by such evil methods. The bishops in the US seem to think that if you murder a child many years ago it does not matter:

    “Given the urgency of this crisis, the lack of available alternative vaccines, and the fact that the connection between an abortion that occurred decades ago and receiving a vaccine produced today is remote, inoculation with the new COVID-19 vaccines in these circumstances can be morally justified,”

    https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/12/15/u-s-bishops-say-catholics-have-moral-responsibility-to-be-vaccinated-against-coronavirus/

    • Replies: @Da's Reich
  132. hfel says:

    I think you’re too hasty in your judgement of liberals as “nihilists”. There’s plenty of ideological conviction, best exemplified by the Church of Woke. And at any rate, the antidote to nihilism is not blind faith (https://meaningness.com/preview-eternalism-and-nihilism). I doubt your nation of Catholic breeders 200 years in the future will necessarily be any more sanguine – for the results of over-the-top ethnocentrism and religiosity, have a look at the Middle East.

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