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The Convergence Hoax
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I am among the few to have had the good fortune of growing up in France. I did know that most of the world was poorer than my country and that some people in far away and not-so-far away lands were still dying in wars. But talk of “globalization” was already all the rage and there simply was an assumption that the whole world, slowly, unsteadily, but surely, would become like us.

In truth, we didn’t appreciate how unique and rare a nation like France is in this world. We lived in a a coherent nation, with a reasonably competent and honest administration, among basically gentle and fair people. We took these things for granted. But really, that’s why Westerners should take some time to travel and live in the Second and Third Worlds.

Nice societies are exceptional. In most places, from the periphery of Europe to South Africa, and from Mexico City through Cairo to Jakarta, you really can’t take any of these things for granted. Instead, most commonly the society is divided into innumerable often-hostile tribes, the government is corrupt, and too often the people themselves are vicious and cruel (I measure this by your homicide rate and the physical abuse of children and dogs). These observations obviously don’t deny the warmth, generosity, and indeed vitality that one may find within the families and clans of these societies.

In the 1990s, it might have been reasonable to think that all nations would, eventually, become as gentle as France or even, as Francis Fukuyama even more ambitiously put it, “get to Denmark.” Actually, even back then a perceptive observer could see that this was a questionable proposal not in line with the data comparing socio-economic performance both between nations and between ethnic groups within the same nation (e.g. William Pierce and Philippe Rushton were not hoodwinked).

Even as we were being taught to reject racism and embrace Martin Luther King, the thought occurred to me that racists would probably be reassured in their beliefs by the world’s GDP per capita map. (If everyone was held back by colonialism why was Africa, and specifically Africa south of Sahara, uh, held back more?)

GDP (PPP) per capita, 2004
GDP (PPP) per capita, 2004

“Convergence” is a core aspect of globalist ideology. If all human beings are fundamentally equal, it follows that all societies are fundamentally equal and have the same basic potential. Therefore, the backwardness and dysfunction of particular societies is only because of historical happenstance and can be rectified by adopting the cultural and political practices of winners. The “convergence assumption” underlies much of the work of the European Union, the United Nations, and the field of “developmental economics” (led by Armenian-Turkish economist Daron Acemoglu).

If individuals and nations are equal, we would expect them to gradually fully equalize over time. This, however, rarely happens unless your nation is either:

A) Close to Europe’s Germanic core (e.g., more often than not, within the mysterious Hajnal Line)

B) Largely descended by people close to Europe’s Germanic core (the United States, the British Dominions . . .)

C) Is in East Asia (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, China . . .)

D) Is descended by people from East Asia (Singapore)

E) Has bountiful natural resources (Saudi, Gulf States . . .)

I stopped believing convergence when I got bored of hearing the recurring reports, every damn year, about how the “Nordic countries” were always top of the list on all the various metrics of economic performance, well-being, equality, niceness, etc.

Since the Second World War, no southern European country has converged with northern Europe despite being under capitalist regimes. No one in the development economics field has any coherent explanation for why corruption and poor governance steadily increase as one goes towards southern Europe (and beyond to the Maghreb and Sub-Saharan Africa) and for why these countries have proven unable to adopt good practices over the last 75 years.

The European Union has a number of policies which are supposed to foster convergence between member countries: the EU budget redistributes billions of euros of agricultural, regional development, and other funds from wealthier rich countries to poorer ones; access to the Common Market (an economy as big as China or the United States); and even a common currency, the Euro, which enables all members to enjoy a money as stable as that of Germany and reduces transaction costs.

And yet, full convergence doesn’t even happen within Europe.

In recent years, divergence has been the norm, with Germany deepening its lead and southern Europe falling further and further behind.

All this is nothing new. For centuries, industry and trade in Europe has concentrated in the so-called “Blue Banana” (pictured above) stretching from southern England via the Rhineland to northern Italy.

Compare the diffusion of the printing press:

And the current GDP per capita of European regions:

Same ol’, same ol’. Already in the sixteenth century, Niccolò Machiavelli was complaining that Italians were not as industrious, organized, and “virtuous” as the Swiss.

Human beings are creatures defined both by their genetic inheritance (difficult to change) and by their culture (much easier to change). We have both hardware (largely genetically-determined phenotype) and software (culture, in particular customs, habits, and norms). Egalitarians claim humans are all software, which isn’t credible.

The difficult question with any observed inequality is to ask: How much of this is due to heredity and how much due to culture?

Acemoglu has become an academic rockstar by promoting a comforting thesis: that poor countries are poor not because there is anything different about the people, but because the “institutions” differ. It’s obvious that institutions are extremely important, that makes Acemoglu’s heredity-denying claim half-true, and all the more misleading (much more misleading than an outright lie).

Institutions clearly matter. The Japanese had not thought of the idea of capitalism until Commodore Perry’s black ships forced them to open up their country to foreign trade at gunpoint in 1854. The Japanese, unlike 80% of nations, proved quite adept at capitalism.

Conversely, a nation is most often held back by an excess of socialism. This had clearly been the case for eastern Europe until 1989 and for Mao’s China, which went through phases of communist hysteria. It was also apparently the case for postwar Great Britain, whose Labour government passed an ambitious program of socialist economics in that nation which had so long had massive inequalities. British postwar socialism appears to have contributed to the country’s unprecedented economic underperfomance relative to the Continent (about 20% poorer than France by 1980). (Excessive military spending to sustain Britain’s great power ambitions and trade disruption due to the collapse of the British Empire no doubt also played a role.)

But there is also the taboo human biodiversity explanation. This assumes that a country’s long-term development is constrained by the basic psychological character of the population. The most important traits would be: intelligence and social trust (inversely correlated with corruption).

Intelligence is correlated with many nice things like innovation and self-control. High intelligence (particularly concentrations of very intelligent people) means you can be a world-leader in cognitively-demanding fields, like innovation. Low intelligence means you have a lot more non-functional people, people who can’t hold a job, who might be erratic or violent, which your society will have to babysit. The effects of intelligence and stupidity seems to ratchet up. Critical mass (of intelligent people or of stupid people) often seems to be a decisive factor.

It seems to me that social trust is favored by: the psychological mechanism of guilt (particularly associated with northern Europe), the psychological mechanism of shame (particularly associated with East Asia), and by a shared ethno-national identity (the West until recently, East Asia still).

If a country has a stable regime of mixed-market capitalism (e.g. no more socialist than postwar Continental Europe), it will tend towards its “natural” level of social organization and economic development, as roughly follows:

GDP / capita ≃ intelligence * trust

In general, if a country held back by decades of communism overtakes a society which had enjoyed a stable capitalist regime, there are strong grounds for thinking that HBD is the decisive factor.

The fact that Poland has overtaken Greece and Czechia has overtaken Portugal (and perhaps soon Spain) in terms of GDP per capita is remarkable. The same is true for China – retarded by Maoist economic and cultural insanity – blasting past India, which had inherited capitalist and democratic institutions from none other than the British pioneers in these fields. The Acemoglian thesis is powerless to explain India’s failure, while the HBD thesis happily predicted China’s rise a decade ago (if not earlier).

For developmental economics, the “middle-income trap” is a mysterious problem to endlessly theorize about. For the hereditarian, it is just what you would expect to see, given the realities of technological diffusion by tiny cognitive elites and the mediocre human capital in most of the world.

I would concede that in many cases socio-cultural vicious and virtuous circles contribute to the persistence of inequality and the failure of convergence. A country with tyrannical social and cultural habits might find it difficult to shake them off (this may take several generations even in the best of cases). One is perpetually struck at how the voting patterns in, say, Poland or Romania to this day correlate with the borders of the ruling empires in previous centuries (where these empires were more liberal or modern, so today these region tend to vote liberal). I do not believe an HBD explanation is credible in these instances.

Furthermore, successful nodes in the capitalist order are liable to suck up the brains of the less successful ones and forge ahead with new industries and infrastructure, meaning a permanent gap. I suspect factors such as these are the reasons for northern England’s relative poverty compared to the south and for post-communist eastern Germany’s only very slow convergence with western Germany. I doubt there is any significant HBD factor involved in these cases.

Charles Murray has convincingly argued that this phenomenon of cognitive sorting (smart people moving in with smart people) has also led to high social fragmentation and polarization in the United States. This clearly also occurs between nation-states.

Of course, genetics, culture (including institutions), and socio-cultural feedback loops are all working together at the same time in determining socio-economic outcomes. I strongly suspect the famous European Blue Banana has persisted for 500 years because of a mixture of these three kinds of factors.

A nation made up of selfish and stupid people will tend to create selfish and stupid institutions, and fall into negative feedback loops. Acemoglians have no coherent account for why some nations create good institutions and other nations, placed under similar conditions, do not.

It will be very interesting to see how much eastern Europe converges with western Europe. Certainly, Nordicist theory is quite comfortable explaining the Czechs’ and the Poles’ overtaking the Meds, while the mainstreamers are at a loss (to be fair, it appears that the Eurozone’s poor design has further weakened Mediterranean economies – wiping out their industry and making them vulnerable to financial instability and usury, while giving Germany cheap exports and negative interest rates – making them underperform relative to their natural level).

It is very striking how consistent is the decline in economic performance as one goes from Germanic Europe towards southern and southeastern Europe: the Netherlands better than Belgium, Germany better than France and Hungary, France better than Italy and Spain, Lombardy better than the Mezzogiorno, Catalonia and the Basque Country better than Andalusia, Hungary better than Romania, Morocco better than Sub-Saharan Africa, Turkey better than Syria and Iraq . . . Or heck just go from Slovenia to FYROM in the former Yugoslavia (although, to be fair to the Serbs, I suspect their poverty has more to do with being isolated and bullied by the West over the last two decades).

The economic underperformance of Russia, Belarus, and, especially, Ukraine and Moldova is rather striking. Instability and being locked out of Western economic networks may or may not be the critical ones.

These factors are difficult to disentangle. We should not automatically assume every inequality is due to HBD factors. Ireland was long assumed to be a basket case because of HBD factors and this has not been entirely disproven by the Celtic Tiger’s recent success (how much of this is due to being an English-speaking tax haven for GAFAs and other global multinationals?).

Around the world, we almost never see full convergence between southern and northern countries. Consider the sample of countries representative of their respective continents in this article’s opening chart.

Does this look like “convergence” to you? Most Third World countries have barely been able to get off the ground. Both France and Brazil, for their part, appear fluctuating around a fairly consistent “natural level” of roughly 75% and 18% of U.S. GDP, respectively. (Note: much of the fluctuation here is in fact currency fluctuation, which does not necessarily reflect the economy’s actual productive swings.) In 1960, the average person in the world had an income equal to 15% that of an American, in 2017 the figure had risen to . . . 18%. Remove China from the equation and most of the world has made no progress at all in catching up to America.

The above chart measures nominal GDP, which may understate the developing countries’ actual purchasing power. For PPP GDP per capita, which tries to measure actual purchasing power, I have only found data going back to 1990, but the story is substantially the same:

Does that look like “convergence” to you?

The data does stress how far China still needs to go to equalize with Western standards of living (although this data may understate China’s progress and China will overtake the U.S. and EU economies long before it achieves per capita parity).

If one has egalitarian rather than hereditarian assumptions, one has to come up with increasingly complex and elaborate mental acrobatics to explain the very widespread and constant failure to achieve full convergence. One of the most popular explanations is Western oppression, but no one has come up with a convincing theory for why British imperialism or U.S. hegemony allow prosperity in some places (Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Western Europe . . .) and cause poverty in others (India, Africa, Latin America . . .).

A particularly vicious form of imperialism (and these do exist) can set a country back generations. However, on the whole the sources of growth and development are largely endogenous. People will say the Marshall Plan “developed” postwar western Europe, but the data does not bear this out. Sure, the Marshall Plan showed how generous the United States could be in comparison with the poor and brutal Soviet Union. In that sense, it was a big propaganda win. But the fact is, there was little correlation between the amount of Marshall aid received and economic growth:


If anything, there is something like an inverse correlation: Britain received the most but fell into stagnation, while West Germany received the least and grew the most. France enjoyed solid growth despite squandering huge amounts of wealth, equivalent in value to its Marshall aid, in failed wars in Indochina and Algeria. Marshall aid helped Europe get through some tough winters, but was by no means a major driver of convergence. Western Europe grew more than eastern Europe not because of Marshall aid but because it was not forced to adopt Stalinist economics.

The Marshall Plan is a popular concept because among politicians because it gives us the illusion of agency. We prefer to think that we can solve big problems by throwing lots of money at them rather than raise uncomfortable questions.

Total aid to Africa since 1960 comes up to over $5 trillion or the equivalent of about 50 Marshall Plans.

Acemoglu’s ideas will always be more popular than apparently-pessimistic hereditarian ones, at least in most of the world. No one likes to hear that their nation is, on the whole, not going to be as organized or nice to live in as the advanced ones. I don’t particularly like the thought of it either. We shouldn’t rub it into anyone’s nose. Every nation and every person ought to have a healthy self-esteem, if that means not thinking about certain topics too much, that’s just fine.

Maybe we ought to think of nations like individuals in this respect: each one has its particular interests, aptitudes, and failings. And that’s all right. We shouldn’t expect everyone to want or be the same. Most of us ain’t Da Vinci.

The point is to be realistic and to have good policies on that basis. The “convergence assumption” creates tremendous amounts of psychic pollution in the policymaking process and leads to perpetual disappointment.

The convergence assumption often leads less developed nations to want to adopt “get-rich-quick” schemes through Western loans, forced industrialization, or “great revolutions” which in the end set them back even further. More ominously still, if one has egalitarian assumptions, someone must always be scapegoated for the Third World country’s failure to achieve Western standards of living, and I don’t need to tell you who is the go-to fall guy.

Every nation should be prudent and moderate in its economics and not assume anything is “wrong” with them just because they are poor. Who knows, may be in the long run we’ll succeed in directly addressing the issue by begetting smarter and wiser human beings.

Acemoglu’s institutional theory is a half-truth which ultimately misleads you into believing a falsehood. I didn’t like Samuel Huntington’s “clash of civilizations” theory when it came out, it just didn’t make sense to me to claim culture was so infungible. But if one considers civilizations as products of and proxies for HBD, well then, his claim that civilizations would not harmoniously converge and blend into one was absolutely true. When something is taboo, a half-lie is often the only way to get at a deep truth.

Fine print: all of these ideas are shameless pilfered from Anatoly Karlin.

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  1. phil says:


    Great essay, as usual.

    Intelligence, or the lack thereof, affects institutional quality, but note that Maoist China and North Korea (“smart countries”) adopted “dumb instituions.” On the other hand, note that Botswana and Rwanda (“dumb countries”) now have greater “economic freedom” (which encompasses commitment to the Rule of Law as well as respect for private property and limited government) than FRANCE. Ideological currents matter.

    You say “…no one has come up with a convincing theory for why British imperialism or U.S. hegemony allow prosperity in some places (Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Western Europe . . .) and cause poverty in others (India, Africa, Latin America . . .).” Of course, HBD and intelligence are relevant here, but Acemoglu argues that, whereas the British DID leave Hong Kong and Singapore with good institutions, they did not do so in Africa because of the threat of malaria and because, apart from natural resources, Africa did not have much to offer. Therefore, the British focused on “extractive institutions” in Africa. Acemoglu overrates the importance of institutions, but he thinks he has an explanation for why the impact of imperialism differed from one place to another.

  2. Thank you. Whatever you may owe to Anatoly Karlin, you’ve marshaled and organized a concise, logical, and dispassionate presentation of facts which cannot fail to impress all but the most obdurate “progressives”.

    If only I could get my idiot friends and relations to seriously read this and ponder its implications. Unfortunately, they are in semi-voluntary thrall to the fake news MSM, whose primary purpose seems to be stifling thought crimes, e.g., the recent series of NYT attacks on James Watson by Amy Harmon for daring to suggest that standard evolutionary theory applies to Homo sapiens. I only wish there were some way, before it is too late, to get honest analyses like these past the developed world’s “soft” censorship, whose effective repressive effect matches that of anything dreamed up by communist states.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  3. Anon[144] • Disclaimer says:

    Quoted from the above article:

    “It’s obvious that institutions are extremely important, that makes Acemoglu’s heredity-denying claim half-true, and all the more misleading (much more misleading than an outright lie).

    “Institutions clearly matter.”

    Don’t cultures and their subsequent institutions grow out of race?

    What if it were perceived that all races can be seen as equal, each in its own ‘native to’ space, as in ‘he’s king in his own home.” Outside, it being a matter of staying at home and protecting borders or going beyond them where adventurers will be effectively challenged or effectively protected? In one’s own space, or by agreement with another, it is possible to create what is merited? Being ruled by malevolent globalists doesn’t bode well for any but the malevolent?

  4. m___ says:

    The underlying yardstick, being GDP, what a joke? The author’s mind of measure, that is where all should start. It seems to us that the author’s champions are pulling the periphery into further decay.

    His measures of success seem to be contradicted by the moment in history. Linearity has stopped, Fukushima of Harvard funded, was right minus “linear”. The end of linear history has happened indeed, hence the conventional measuring stick, and the tricking of the statistics, even at their own defined values by ditto champions, can be thrown out. To pick a single bone… by their own rules and intentions, the EU playing fair?

    We are sorry to see so many intellectuals into this kind of groove thinking, trying to capitalize on the lie they absorbed with zest over their carreer, and now see no alternative but to persist out of opportunism. Some data present must raise the question of foul play, do they not? …so many conventional dogmas must raise a doubt in the most average of minds or not?

    To make a case against such nonsense means getting blue in the face.

  5. (although, to be fair to the Serbs, I suspect their poverty has more to do with being isolated and bullied by the West over the last two decades

    Any Slovene will tell you that the Serbs are undisciplined, corrupt and backward. Serbian poverty goes back to Turkish rule. Ivo Andric’s novels are a pretty good window into the damage the Ottomans did to the Serbs. Not surprisingly Vojvodina- the part of Serbia that was under Habsburg rule – is much nicer than the rest of Serbia. Southern Serbia also has a large gypsy population.

    Both Serbia and Bulgaria have suffered tremendously from emigration in the last few decades. The disparity between the intelligence of Serbian and Bulgarian expats I’ve known in Western Europe and the corruption and dysfunction I see in their home countries is striking. My experience with Poles is almost the opposite – Poland has managed to export their chronic alcoholics to train stations in Austria and Germany and low IQ chavs to the UK, while Poles who remain in Poland are very sharp.

    • Agree: Guillaume Durocher
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  6. phil says:

    Are you able to write coherently, or are you just lazy?

    • Replies: @m___
  7. m___ says:

    Are you able to write coherently, or are you just lazy?

    Since some frameworks are bigger then others, coherence is a relative thing. If you prefer, it is often not the argument, but the audience that matters or in most cases, not at all. Or, to put it differently, when a reader turns “fish-eye”, is it the writer at stake?

    We suggest to glance at or scan partly, our commenting body, the bits of text it relates to (often not very coherent, pertinent, complete or relevant in the first place), and start talking coherence from there.

    As always, our compliments, it is a daring thing to be outspoken, but one cannot well judge the man by the single comment. As some-one else posted these same days, “You are so startlingly moronic”. That to us suggesting a homogeneous state of mind, be it inclined to the downside.

  8. @m___

    I hate to pile on but I’m honestly not sure whether you are a schizophrenic or a pathetic recent product of our dysfunctional educational system. What you write makes little sense to me and, I suspect, to almost anyone who tries to parse it. I’m not attacking your ideas but only the inchoate incoherence of your posts I can’t attack your ideas because quite frankly, after reading what you’ve posted here, I have no idea what those ideas might be.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    , @Rogue
    , @Anonymous
  9. JLK says:

    That’s a neat graphic, similar to the Murray charts in Human Accomplishment, but better focused on what appears to be the high-IQ belt of the Occidental world. Where did you find it?

    One of my harping points is that if we’re going to be in a long-term competition with East Asia, the US/UK alliance needs to be broadened to include this critical area as an equal partner instead of a vassal. We need these brains helping out with our most sensitive research and intelligence analysis.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  10. Saying that nations are dysfunctional because they lack “good institutions” is like saying people are poor because they “lack money.”

    Substituting “good culture” or “a strong middle class” isn’t much better. These are all (mostly) effects rather than causes of a healthy nation.

    Thats why HBD seems like a better candidate as a primary cause of a nation’s character and wealth.

    It does seem to me, however, that having a small number of super-smart people cant be the biggest factor. Otherwise, undeveloped nation could just buy or borrow the services or IP of such elites from abroad.

    It must have more to do with the distribution of ability among the broad middle of the population.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  11. RudyM says:

    So that would be a “no,” then, to the question of whether or not you are able to write coherently.

  12. RudyM says:

    [E]ven a common currency, the Euro, which enables all members to enjoy a money as stable as that of Germany and reduces transaction costs.

    I don’t see how the shared euro, despite its stability, can be considered an advantage for most countries in Europe. Since at least some EU countries don’t get to issue their own currency, and can’t issue euros, they end up forced to follow monetary and fiscal policies which don’t suit them. Not everyone can be a net exporter. I find the typical MMT analysis of the EU’s economic situation, persuasive. At any rate, I don’t see how it can ever be considered an advantage for a country to lose the ability to issue its own currency.

    • Agree: animalogic
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  13. Italy’s economy is fine. Always has been. It’s just that more than half of it is off the books.

    You people don’t understand anything but lying statistics.

  14. But the fact is, there was little correlation between the amount of Marshall aid received and economic growth…If anything, there is something like an inverse correlation: Britain received the most but fell into stagnation, while West Germany received the least and grew the most.

    Britain spent its money propping up its empire and global obligations (think of Palestine ) and on social programs such as the NHS. Germany did not have to pay for its defence from the Soviet Union until the 1950s. Also in 1953 the there was the London Debt Agreement where the USA leaned on Britain, France and numerous other European countries to write off Germany’s pre-war debt to them.

    • Replies: @George
    , @Sean
  15. Twenty years ago, grocery shopping in eastern France was roughly thirty percent cheaper than across the Rhein in western Germany. The Euro has rapidly led to a convergence of prices between the two, but not necessarily to a convergence, much less much real improvement, of the purchasing power between the two. It is easy to see why the Yellow Jackets are out there in the streets of France while the leadership of the two countries plan even deeper integration.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  16. The economic underperformance of Russia…is rather striking

    When making comparisons, like should be compared with like. During the course of less than a hundred years, Russia endured revolution, was subjected to genocide, sustained huge war losses and was then asset stripped, with the resulting poverty causing five million extra deaths.

    In the circumstances, it is striking that Russia has managed to survive as a viable nation. If her enemies had subjected her to mass immigration à la West she may well not have survived.

  17. @phil

    Thanks for the comment! I agree extractive vs. productive makes sense for comparing some forms of colonialism (e.g. English settlement/trade vs. Spanish conquest/lordship in the Americas).

    If British colonialism appears more “extractive” in some reasons it may be because some places have a lot of resources to extract while the population isn’t very . . . productive.

  18. @obwandiyag

    Could be. But given Italy’s reception of less immigrants than France (until recently) and Italy’s relatively-high emigration ( ), I get the impression standards of living in Italy really are somewhat lower.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  19. Tsigantes says:

    This northern european / US-centric article entirely overlooks ‘small matters’ like soft / hard colonial occupation, external control, the corrupting bribes offered by northern european / US companies, corporations and governments to local elites in disadvantaged countries (it is not the weak or impoverished offering bribes to the wealthy), the treaties forced on unwilling recipients, including treaties to NOT develop their mineral wealth, unwelcome SOFA agreements, control of their infrastructural grids by Israel, NATO commanded de-sovereignisation of their armed forces, institutionalised looting etc. etc. No, it’s all down to protestantism, the Enlightment and superior racial IQ. Never that Might makes right. May the weak bow to the strong!

    Instead of discussing Europe, Mr. Durocher could turn his spotlight on Latin America – a whole continent under his analysis of clearly low IQ, corrupt, genetically impaired losers incapable of organising their societies.

    Mr. Durocher, not many in the ROW consider France a ‘gentle’ country, ref. CAR, Libya, Syria, Iraq etc.. Nor many french citizens in France itself these days – ref. the Gilets Jaunes.

    But please, enjoy your BCBG bobo elitism while it lasts. And may you continue to pleasure your American readership by assuring them of their innate genetic and racial superiority.

  20. “Human beings are creatures defined both by their genetic inheritance (difficult to change) and by their culture (much easier to change). We have both hardware (largely genetically-determined phenotype) and software (culture, in particular customs, habits, and norms). Egalitarians claim humans are all software, which isn’t credible.”

    There’s the Left’s unexamined assumption; that culture, customs, habits, and norms are relatively easy to change.

    Putting on Karl Marx’s spectacles for a moment we see that culture et al are embodied in concrete objects: roads, airport runways, machine tools, printing presses, the banking system, contracts, schools etc.

    Borrowing from Hegel, Marx said that first we make our tools and then they make us.

    The Left believes that if we simply remake our tools then our own remaking is inevitable.

    But that evades the issue. They have already told us that changing the concrete embodiments of our culture is tantamount to remaking ourselves–which is the very work the Left was hoping to bypass and avoid–so from whence comes the spirit and will, knowledge, discipline and foresight to take on the challenge of rebuilding all that concrete stuff? If stuff determines spirit then how can spirit find the wherewithal to remold stuff? Who’s going to provide the expertise and do all that work?

    They never answer that question because that would give the game away.

    You are. You’ve been volunteered.

  21. hgw says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    Usually, Anatoly Karlin, who you said influenced this post, shies away from discussing too much about southern and southeastern Europe when it comes to iq/intelligence topics, because it cant explain all the details found in the differences between them . You should have followed suit, because:

    1. Portugal has a PISA score equal to that of Poland, despite the fact that it certainly has more immigrants from more disfunctional societies than those in Poland, who is hommogenous (so its score should be bigger). The data are from PISA 2015, published in January 2017. PISA scores are accepted by Karlin as a good enough proxy for IQ and GDP per capita. So the human capital difference is out of the question. In fact, Portugal has higher scores than Spain and…France (because of mass immigration, ofcourse), who are considerably richer than it.
    2. Slovenia is again highly hommogenous, rich by balkan standards and genetically similar with poorer countries like Serbia and Bulgaria. Why does it have these higher indicators?

    These are only two examples. I didnt even mention the effects of lower levels of urbanization on IQ and PISA scores… but I dont have the data to have a firm opinion on this.

    You might say that corruption is lower in the richer countries mentioned, but, then again, its notoriously difficult to measure and, according to some studies and Anatoly Karlin, irrelevant for economic growth in the long term (this is exactly the case of China).

  22. @hgw

    Thanks for your comment. Southern Europe may have two issues:
    1) A slightly lower IQ.
    2) Lower social trust (higher corruption).
    If it isn’t one of these two factors, it begs the question: Why is underperformance apparently so intractable?

    Regarding Slovenia: I would say a lot happens phenotypically as one moves from Slovenia to FYROM. I would not be surprised if there is a significant genetic difference (e.g. Early European Farmer or Turkic introgression). This should be checked out, but I would not be surprised if genetic differences are behind some of the tensions in otherwise linguistically-similar nations, like Italy or Yugoslavia.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Cyrano
  23. @Tsigantes

    The birth pangs of.. Enlightenment.

  24. peterAUS says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    Regarding Slovenia: I would say a lot happens phenotypically as one moves from Slovenia to FYROM. I would not be surprised if there is a significant genetic difference (e.g. Early European Farmer or Turkic introgression). This should be checked out, but I would not be surprised if genetic differences are behind some of the tensions in otherwise linguistically-similar nations, like Italy or Yugoslavia.

    That’s an interesting thought.
    Hehe……just….anyway. I mean, the same train of thought was instrumental in some of worse atrocities one can think of during previous century. Including mass murder on genocide level.

    Shouldn’t strong influence by, in effect, occupying Western/Middle Eastern culture be of fundamental importance?

    Slovenia was not under Turks but under Austria/Hungary. Croatia, pretty much the same. Actually, Dalmatia there was under Italians.
    Bosnia-Herzegovina….well….let’s not go there, but, yes, Turks.
    North of Danube, Serbia, under Hungary. The rest under Turks. FYROM the same (Turks).
    Montenegro….well…they weren’t much under anybody but that, with terrain, developed that strong clan/tribal mentality.

    Bottom line…..West/East (and that’s Turkish/Middle-Eastern) CULTURAL difference feels as the best explanation.

    • Replies: @Tsigantes
  25. If everyone was held back by colonialism why was Africa, and specifically Africa south of Sahara, uh, held back more?

    Firstly: decolonisation started later in Africa than it did elsewhere – and I’m pretty certain you know that.

    Second: when the colonial powers left, they generally left a situation in which they had installed a minority into positions of bureaucratic power (because minorities are far more willing to do the colonist’s bidding) – which meant that the ‘new’ government was indifferent (if not hostile) to the populations over which they were governing (e.g., Hutu vs Tutsi in Rwanda; Indian vs Bumiputra in Malaysia).

    Third: you’re ignoring debt and statistical legerdemain, which overstates Western output growth far more than it does for developing countries.

    Using GDP per capita ignores the capacity of Western countries to spend beyond their means in the short term; since ‘G’ (government spending) is part of GDP, and global capital markets are prepared to lend to States who oversee solid institutions and supine populations, Western governments have had the ability to run sustained periods where (T-G) is large (both in absolute terms, as a p[roportion of GDP, and in per capita terms).

    You might be unaware of the various statistical adjustments that Western governments adopted in the late 1980s to suppress inflation measures – specifically
    ① chain linking (changing basket weights for CPI); and
    ② hedonics (reducing CPI effects to account for ‘quality’ improvements); and
    ③ substitution effects (down-weighting goods whose prices are rising); and
    ④ OER (owner equivalent rent): serves to reduce the CPI impact of dwelling costs.

    They did this because they knew that COLA (cost of living adjustments) for transfer payments needed to be massaged downwards.

    Western pension mechanisms are Ponzi schemes: payouts to retirees are made from the contributions of current workers. As such, to be sustainable they are critically dependent on the path of workers per retiree.

    Demography was (and is) working against pension schemes in all Western countries: for example, France will have 2 workers per retiree reasonably shortly – down from 5 or 6 per retiree in the 1960s, when all the pension promises were made.

    The need to reduce COLA led to the artificially lowering consumption (and GDP) price indices; which for a given nominal GDP serves to increase real GDP.

    The four adjustments enumerated above artificially raise ‘real’ output measures for Western economies by roughly 2% a year.

    (I wrote a whole thing on this in about 2000 or maybe 2001, with reference to the real-GDP numbers for semiconductors and software; the ‘real’ numbers were rising at 2-3% a year, even though nominal expenditures were falling… and firms cannot book real-GDP numbers to their P&L).

    Anyway… point is, GDP per capita is a very bad metric to use, unless there is some discussion of the level (and serviceability) of government indebtedness.

    The other thing to point out is that GDP per capita is a measure of central tendency, and its distribution matters; abstracting away from the statistical chicanery, the ‘rising’ GDP per capita in the US has been overwhelmingly captured by a very small sliver of the top 1% of private sector income – and the bottom 3 quartiles have had stagnant purchasing power for almost a generation. Other Western economies exhibit similar dynamics.

    It’s super-easy to appear prosperous if you are constantly selling off pieces of your future. Africa (and particularly sub-Saharan Africa excluding South Africa) had virtually no access to capital markets since decolonisation – and they were explicitly forbidden from using aid capital to enahcne their agricultural output, because Europeans feared it would lead to population explosion and a flood of blacks upwards from the Mediterranean.

    The people of Côte d’Ivoire, Senegal, Cap Verde, and Cameroun could not run massive budget surpluses for decades, without capital markets penalising them with higher interest rates – that would have been a proper response to fiscal lassitude, but it’s not one that has been imposed on the West since the 1990s. And all the while they – and the people of Moroccoa and Algeria – were exporting value-added to Paris as a result of long-tailed contracts that were signed by incoming (Quisling) governments as France dismantled its African colonies.


    To see why debt matters: consider these people – Investor Magazine’s “Property Investor of the Year” for 2012: living the dream, with all the lifestyle accoutrements that dictates… must have impressed everyone around them with their apparent prosperity.

    It was all built on a gigantic pile of increasing leverage, and it all fell apart.

    The US has $21 trillion in government debt, plus another ~200 trillion in unfunded future liabilities (promises for which no accounting has yet been made); if we had enabled the population of Sub-Saharan Africa to have the same ability to spend more than they make (per capita) we would be singing their praises.

    Africa (and especially SSA) is still dominated by subsistence agriculture, and the reproductive strategies being pursued there reflect this (which is why TFR, though falling, are still above -replacement).

    If people are concerned about Black Hordes… Help Africa Get Richer (and watch its TFR plummet below replacement).

    • Agree: the grand wazoo
    • Replies: @Svigor
  26. @Tsigantes

    A very nice recap of the ‘headwinds’ for development during the first one or two post-colonial generations.

    As I’ve said before: if the West ever took its foot off Africa’s throat, it would be a powerhouse within 50 years.

    For the moment it’s profitable for the Western parasite classes to refuse to do that; in time that will generate a response from some or othe disgruntled group, the way that a century of unwelcome interference in the Middle East caused those buildings to fall down in New York on Blowback Day, 2001.

  27. Silva says:

    Regarding when “capitalism” started in Japan: (no quibbles with the main point).

    • Agree: Guillaume Durocher
  28. Anon 2 says:

    According to the latest data, in terms of GDP (PPP) per capita, Czechia (followed closely by Slovakia) not only moved ahead of Greece and Portugal but also Israel. Despite receiving countless billions in aid, Israel remains a low IQ country (about 95) that doesn’t even have a university in the top 100, which is probably part of the reason.

    Czechia is now only $1400 away from Italy in GDP per capita, and will undoubtedly move past Italy in the next 2-3 years. Poland, as the largest of the Visegrad 4 (with the effective population of over 40 million, incl. 2-3 million Ukrainian guest workers) is in a category by itself. Unlike Western Europe or Russia, Poland has not suffered a recession since 1992 when it switched to market economy. The Katowice (Upper Silesia) – Krakow (cultural capital) metropolitan area all by itself has the population of about 10 million (same as Czechia) and GDP larger than Czechia.

    It must be humiliating for Russia to see its former enslaved Central European satellites (Visegrad 4, the Baltics, with Romania as an honorary member) race ahead, and each year increase their distance from Russia in terms of their economic performance. Compared to Russia (or Ukraine), they are “nice” countries as well, with very low murder, drug addiction, HIV, etc rates as well as longer life expectancies.

  29. Anonymous[309] • Disclaimer says:

    We lived in a a coherent nation, with a reasonably competent and honest administration, among basically gentle and fair people. We took these things for granted. But really, that’s why Westerners should take some time to travel and live in the Second and Third Worlds.

    Nice societies are exceptional. In most places, from the periphery of Europe to South Africa, and from Mexico City through Cairo to Jakarta, you really can’t take any of these things for granted.

    This is the key. It’s impossible to overstate the importance of actually living in some of those shitholes before deciding to embrace globalist racial/IQ/cultural narratives.

    And it’s not about money. City streets and city parks in white, non-multicultural countries like Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary or Slovenia are filled with reasonably safe, unaccompanied women and children. Meanwhile, London and Paris are dangerous minefields in comparison and only the old still remember the freedoms and safety they had back in the day when those cities were European.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  30. Kimppis says:

    To be fair, Russia especially is hardly underperforming, I think its GDP per capita (PPP, obviously) is still comparable to the Eastern European average. And the growth should pick up again in around 2020-21.

    On that note, Russia’s oil dependency has always been exaggerated. According to Jon Hellevig’s calculations, oil & gas are maybe around 10% of Russia’s GDP at this point. Some others have argued that the share is similar to Norway (and that was years ago).

    High oil prices probably modestly increased Russia’s annual growth rate between 2000 and 2012, but it seems to me that most of that was simply convergence to its more “natural” level vis-a-vis the rest of EE, as Russia underperformed badly in the 1990s.

    Also, at this rate it seems Romania will catch up with Hungary reasonably soon.

  31. Silva says:

    “As I’ve said before: if the West ever took its foot off Africa’s throat, it would be a powerhouse within 50 years.”

    I agree with you to some extent. However:
    A) the modernization process would involve more wars, and those in favor of it would have to *accept* that;
    B) Africa isn’t a country (specifically, it’s less of one than Europe *counting Russia*);
    C) space no longer occupied by the Western foot is being occupied by the Eastern.

  32. Alfa158 says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Maybe English isn’t their native language and this is a painful dictionary style translation, but it seems even worse than that. It reminds me of one of those software programs that write poetry and end up producing word salad poems that read like an unstructured version of The Jabberwocky.
    I take some consolation that when I write something that turns out to be stupid, people can at least figure out what was the point I was trying to make.

  33. @hgw

    In all fairness, it remains to be seen whether East-Central Europe continues surging ahead to “Core European” levels, or now gets stuck at around the level of the Med.

    FWIW, my money is on the former.
    It is the smart fractions that overwhelmingly matter and demographic replacement will need to get very bad before it really starts pulling the Germans and Swedes down.

    Note that Portugal is, for whatever reason, a strong negative outlier; wages are 50% of those in Spain or Italy. [TBH, Portugal is quite the mystery to me. It seemed relatively functional when I was there; not significantly different from Spain, and much more so than Romania (based on brief personal observations)]. But with 10 million people it’s also not really representative of the Med; that would be Italy and Spain. And representative of ECE would be Poland, which accounts for about 2/3 of Visegrad’s population.

    My guess: Romania and Bulgaria will converge to level of Portugal/Greece; Poland will converge to level of Spain/Italy; best performers – Czechia –> France; Estonia –> Finland.

    • Agree: Guillaume Durocher
  34. ia says:

    As I’ve said before: if the West ever took its foot off Africa’s throat, it would be a powerhouse within 50 years.

    You wouldn’t by chance like to move to somewhere in Africa would you? Or even Baltimore? You could help them throw off the white man’s shackles. I know they’d be very appreciative, Krato. Chance of a lifetime. Go for it.

    • Agree: Svigor
    • Replies: @europeasant
  35. Wally says:

    Yep, that explains Italy’s constant need to be bailed out perfectly.

  36. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Convergence will happen.. by sex.

    Germany is not breeding. So, non-Germans will come and breed with Germans and take over.

    Also, Africa and Europe will converge due to jungle fever. 100s of millions of African men will come to EU and colonize white wombs.

    Japan will converge with rest of the world. Japanese men are now virgins, and so, Japanese women breed with other races. Japan will become like Latin America.

  37. The irrelevance of the Marshall Plan is particularly salient in the case of Germany, which the Allies for several years after the war looted of both human and physical capital, and which, as noted, received relatively little Marshall Plan aid. It’s also notable that within the Warsaw Pact, the DDR had a similar position with regards to industrial productivity as the Federal Republic had in the European Economic Community.

  38. anon[414] • Disclaimer says:

    Convergence is not going to occur the way you described, i.e. poor countries aren’t going to get richer on their own. Rather, rich countries will become poorer on a per capita basis until they reach parity with the poor countries — through mass immigration.

    Best example of this is the US. Mass immigration from Central America will not stop until the standard of living in the US and Central America reach parity, i.e. when the per capita GDP of US goes from $60k to $20k in the US, thus become at parity with Mexico. That’s what the economists meant when they talk about convergence, you just misunderstood them. Like our education system, each year the bar for passing just keeps getting lower so more people can graduate. It’s much easier to dumb down than to smart up.

    As for why rich countries are rich, IQ is certainly big part of it, but other cultural traits matter as well – integrity, self-reliance, upward mobility, industriousness. Large numbers of people in poor countries do not possess these traits. When an African street food vendor sells out his food by 10am, he takes the rest of the day off. The Chinese would make a whole lot more so he could sell til’ 10pm. The German would find a way to automate the making of the food so he could sell more as frozen entries. The fucking Jews would find ways to franchise the place and take it global. In short, culture matters.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @SafeNow
  39. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:

    Hong Kong and Singapore are both as malarial as anywhere else in the tropics.

    • Replies: @phil
  40. Wally says:
    @Arthur Pierce

    Yes, I was pleased to see the common misconceptions about the Marshall Pan shot down.

    Those who constantly make excuses for low IQ Africa’s constant failure always try using it as yet another excuse.

    Total aid to Africa since 1960 comes up to over $5 trillion or the equivalent of about 50 Marshall Plans.


    • Replies: @james charles
  41. Thomm says:


    The third-last chart (GNI per Capita in PPP) should be on a logarithmic scale, not a linear one.

    The thing is, while the rankings of many countries are not changing, outside of the bottommost tier (SS Africa and African countries in the Western Hemisphere (Haiti)), the floor is rising quickly.

    The number of people living on under $2/day has fallen from 45% of the world in 1980 to 27% in 2000 to just 4% today.

    Hence, many of the countries in SouthEast and South Asia, while not higher in rank, have nonetheless risen to where Eastern Europe and Latin America were just ~15 years ago. Being 15 years behind is hardly a terrible indictment. They may never lower the 15-year gap by much, but they will get to where EE and LatAm are today by no later than 2033-34 (perhaps faster due to higher growth rates than the former achieved from this stage).

    Similarly, China is merely where South Korea was around 2000 or so, so just 18-19 years behind.

    The real failure is SS Africa, which has the lowest per capita GDP *and* a weak growth rate.

  42. Mr. XYZ says:

    Excellent post, Guillaume!

    I would like to make a specific point, though–while bad institutions can certainly prevent countries from reaching their full potential, good institutions are not going to allow a country to reach First World levels of prosperity if it doesn’t have the human capital for this. For instance, I am thinking of a country which has good institutions either as a result of having restrictive suffrage laws (so that only the smartest people there can vote) or as a result of being colonized by a smarter country.

    Also, as you appear to know very well, having a resource windfall and/or a tourism windfall can allow countries to become wealthier than their human capital would allow them to in ordinary circumstances. Of course, such countries would also need to avoid the resource curse.

  43. Wally says:

    “if the West ever took its foot off Africa’s throat, it would be a powerhouse within 50 years.”

    “Total aid to Africa since 1960 comes up to over $5 trillion or the equivalent of about 50 Marshall Plans.”

    Some “foot” that is.

    Please actually read the article under discussion.

    With IQs of Africans being so low they will never be a “powerhouse”. They can’t even feed themselves. Your statement is laughable.

  44. Thomm says:


    I made that chart in a log scale, and chose large collections of nations rather than anecdotes like Morocco and Senegal :

    The only one truly gaining ground is China. India has gained some ground, but much less. None of the other choices has done anything to greatly change their position. That said, China appears to be not far from where France was in 1990. India is where China was in 2008. Inflation has been low, so that is not a major factor.

    • Agree: Guillaume Durocher
  45. @Anon

    Japanese women generally intermarry with Europeans, to the extent that they intermarry at all. And Japanese intermarried with Ainu from Russia who were in Japan before them, so they have some distant Slavic blood from this founding population of Ainu.

    African-Americans are already 20% white. DNA tests yield surprising results. Chris Rock, for example, turned out to be nearly a full quarter Scottish. Most Brazilian blacks have considerable white blood.

    The whites in Europe and the US who do have lots of kids are the rural poor. Mostly because white women don’t have a choice over partners. They are always poor.

  46. WHAT says:

    Hong Kong and Singapore are both huge trade/logistic hubs. Even if anglo never came, these would still develop nicely.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @sb
  47. WHAT says:

    Chechenova, when will you learn a new spiel? For five years now I see your public masturbation sessions on various sites.

    • Replies: @Alden
  48. utu says:

    PISA scores are accepted by Karlin as a good enough proxy for IQ

    PISA and Lynn’s IQ’s correlate very poorly.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  49. sb says:

    May I suggest that you use median individual wealth rather than GDP (PPP) per capita as a measure of economic wellbeing . Digging up and then filling holes creates economic activity but does not produce wealth

    Nobody thinks that the Irish are so prominent among the wealthiest people in the EU -including the Irish themselves who ,as always, are still moving abroad for greater economic opportunity

  50. Nice essay. Western Civilization has something that many other nations including China and Japan lacked….Creativity. People don’t like to hear this because it reeks of supposed White Supremacism. Where does it come from? Does it remain from our ancestors and the struggles they endured in harsher climates? Of course Natural Selection doesn’t occur for intelligence as prescribed by the Jewish Bolsheviks who control our universities. Sub Saharan Africa couldn’t produce someone who could build a boat to get off the continent.

    This is not going to end well. There is no Magic Dirt. If the USA collapses due to the influx of the immigrants and it’s quite possible due to the overwhelming of all biological, economic, and social systems the rest of the world will go too.

    America and Europe are on a suicidal path and we may not be able to stop it.

    • Replies: @EastKekistani
  51. ‘…I didn’t like Samuel Huntington’s “clash of civilizations” theory when it came out, it just didn’t make sense to me to claim culture was so infungible…

    The shortcoming in Huntington’s theory doesn’t lie in the belief that culture is resistant to change, but in the attempt to divide it up into tidy little blocks. I’m very skeptical, for example, that Turkey is more like Yemen than it is like Greece, or that Uruguay is more like Venezuela than it is like Canada.

    The world is actually a wretched mess, and attempts at excessive schematization such as Huntington’s substitute a false clarity for the qualified, endlessly nuanced reality that is out there. Turkey will indeed keep acting like Turkey; but that doesn’t mean it will ever act much like Yemen.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  52. Cyrano says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    That’s just a wishy-washy trash talking about the Slavs from former Yugoslavia. To just assume that IQ decreases as you go from Slovenia to Macedonia is a comforting thought for someone who supports latitude based IQ theory. For me, that theory – at least when applied to FY Slavs – doesn’t work.

    I still believe that there are various types of intelligence – one of which is an emotional intelligence. Slovenians for example – have probably close to 0 emotional IQ. I mean, I have never met any Slovenian that wasn’t in a urgent need of a personality transplant. I suspect that even Slovenians with multiple personalities – when you combine all of them – it would still not amount to the equivalent of personality for one normal person.

    Serbs might not be as industrious as the Slovenians, but to assume that they have lover IQ because they live further down south is just fantasy based. The only fault I can find in the personality of the Serbs as a nation – is that they are lousy strategists. They are the only ones that didn’t benefit from the creation of Yugoslavia – and yet it was mostly thanks to them that Yugoslavia came into existence.

    Serbia was the only country from former Yugoslavia that had a state prior to Yugoslavia, the rest of the losers became nations thanks to Yugoslavia – after it broke up. Serbs are pretty dumb when it comes to strategy, I would say even to the point of deserving to be declared honorary Ukrainians.

  53. @Anon

    ‘…Germany is not breeding. So, non-Germans will come and breed with Germans and take over.

    Also, Africa and Europe will converge due to jungle fever. 100s of millions of African men will come to EU and colonize white wombs…’

    I suspect you’re wrong, because I suspect that we’re about to get the reaction.

    The drawback is that there’s no reason to think the reaction will be any prettier than the problem.

  54. @Peter Akuleyev

    ‘…Any Slovene will tell you that the Serbs are undisciplined, corrupt and backward. Serbian poverty goes back to Turkish rule. Ivo Andric’s novels are a pretty good window into the damage the Ottomans did to the Serbs…’

    There’s also the point that under the Ottomans, the most successful parts of the population converted to Islam. When the Turks were driven out, these elites went with them. To be blunt, what was left was the dregs of society — and that’s what Serbia was built out of.

    This also applies, incidentally, to much of the rest of the former Ottoman Empire. Crete, for example, was essentially stripped of its urban population.

    • Replies: @Hannah Katz
  55. I find a contention that “equality” is indicated by everyone ending up in the same place more than troublesome — if not downright incorrect.

    There are too many factors that impact the trek. And those factors don’t occur at the same, on in the same magnitude. But the idea itself is not supported by real world example. Suppose one believes that all whites are in fact equal — just take a look around and it clear — if so —

    they don’t end at the same place at the same .

    equal intelligences does not equal the same journey or the same end.

  56. Rogue says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    Indeed. I haven’t a clue what he’s on about.

    If he’s trying to sound interleckshul, it’s a fail. Plain English, please.

  57. ikeo says:

    Statistics would, maybe, be meaningful, if all countries were free, sovereign and independent. But at the base of the economy, there is a central bank. If you consider African countries, none has a its own “real” national central bank and sovereign monetary control. When the colonizers left and granted independence” to those countries, they made sure to leave behind an “independent” central bank controlled by the moneylenders. The former French colonies in Africa, as far as they are concerned, were left under the yoke of the CFA Franc, with most of their foreign reserves under the control of the French Treasury. Furthermore, in the world, not all “independent” central banks are equal, when it comes to credit (debt) creation: those whose local currency is not one of the reserve currencies, are forced to undersell their natural resources and products in order to acquire US dollars and survive.
    The concept of convergence seems to fit in the globalist oneiric logic: when the world is unified into one global state, one race, one culture, one economy, one GDP, the socialist dream will also be fulfilled: all goyim will be equal.

  58. @m___

    I wager that this execrable prose is the product of Google translate or some other form of machine learning based translation system. Something about it strikes me as decidedly mechanical.

  59. @Kratoklastes

    “if the West ever took its foot off Africa’s throat, it would be a powerhouse within 50 years.”

    Why is it that the whining is always about ‘the west’. Most of those ‘western’ slave merchants and diamond mine owners were Jews of Sephardic extraction, and therefore Middle eastern in origin.

    Second, the Arabs were in Africa a millennium before the Europeans. They ran the largest slave empires on earth.

  60. Reading this article the thought crossed my mind ‘is the confusion about equality, IQ etc caused by the simple english language ?’.
    English speaking will not like this, but english is a language, one might say, for morons.

    Arabic, for example is far more complicated, but here complicated means that arabic is far more suited for communicating complex abstract thoughts and ideas than english.
    For example the expression ‘a group of students’, I have this from a book written by someone from the ME about the history of the Arab peoples.
    ‘A group of students’ in english may mean: a group of male and female students, a group of just male students, a group of just female students.
    In arabic there are three different expressions, so that one knows the composition of the group.
    This is a simple example, but it may explain why the Quran it is not allowed to be read in any translation.

    English is my third language, so I may be completely wrong.
    In Dutch we have the word ‘equal’ and the word ‘gelijkwaardig’.
    Do not know an english equivalent for ‘gelijkwaardig’.

    Equal, ‘gelijk’, is quite simple, no differences, except, maybe in these racial times, colour of the skin. IQ differences do not exist.
    ‘Gelijkwaardig’ is quite different, it means having the same value, worth. It does not mean ‘having the same (moral) values’.
    ‘Gelijkwaardig’ is the right to be treated in the same way by the law, by authorities, whatever, despite being totally different, such as having two heads or three legs.

    My father in his office, a long time ago, had a large poster, showing a white and a black child, with the words ‘All Equal before Christ’.
    In Dutch it was clear that the children were not equal, white is not black.
    So what must have been meant is the concept ‘gelijkwaardig’.

  61. @Anon 2

    It must be humiliating for Russia to see its former enslaved Central European satellites (Visegrad 4, the Baltics, with Romania as an honorary member) race ahead,

    Difficult to reconcile with Brussels’ threats to diminish EU economic aid to these countries, if they do not allow Muslim migrants in.

  62. @Arthur Pierce

    The Marshall Plan, in reality the Kennan plan, was a panic measure to prevent Italy and other countries becoming communist.
    During the 1948 Italian elections an important USA navy was anchored off the Italian coast, under a pretext tanks had already been unloaded.

    Germany, Churchill objected to the Morgenthau plan, FDR had signed it already, the plan to kill through hunger another ten million Germans, with the statement ‘I do not want to be chained to a corpse’.
    British officers had other ideas than Morgenthau, it was 1946, from memory, that VW Beetle production was restarted.

    Few people know or understand that the allied, especially the RAF night bombings, killed a lot of German civilians, but relatively hardly damaged German industries
    My father in 1948 was allowed, his employer, to buy a car, until then he cycled in the post war years.
    His choice was Hillman Minx, VW Beetle and Opel Olympia.
    Suppose the cheapest Mercedes was also on sale, but above budget.

  63. @Hypnotoad666

    Look up La Griffe du Lion’s stuff on the importance of the “smart fraction”. Steve Sailer brought it up again in a recent TakiMag piece. See

  64. @RudyM

    If it could never be an advantage to a country not to be able to issue its own currency then you must think the many countries that have agreed to that, or just adopted the $US for most important purposes, are remarkably stupid and irrational. I guess the main reason for it was the hope of needed discipline which domestic politics would otherwise never allow. Ruling out competitive devaluation would be a big part of that.

  65. Tyrion 2 says:

    This article should be used as a case study for teaching fair-minded writing.

  66. PeterMX says:

    Marshall Plan Aid:

    “If anything, there is something like an inverse correlation: Britain received the most but fell into stagnation, while West Germany received the least and grew the most.” During the 1970’s and 80’s when I came of age and Europe was still doing relatively well by my book, but West Germany was sometimes considered a star performer (like Japan) and the USA was concerned about the demise of their automobile and other manufacturing sectors, I often heard of how Marshall Plan Aid rebuilt West Germany and that is why they were doing so well. I heard this over and over again with some people claiming the destruction of German manufacturing during the war “helped” Germany because they rebuilt new factories while the US was stuck with outdated factories. In all that time I never heard that France and Great Britain also received Marshall Plan Aid and in fact much more than West Germany. I’m an American and I only learned about this I think within the last 10 to 15 years. I’m certain very few people even knew Great Britain and France received Marshall Plan Aid. Naturally, now that France and Great Britain are also mentioned, people act like they knew this all along. This shows how useless and deceptive the mainstream media can be just by omitting pertinent facts.

    What is of equal or even greater interest to me is the sudden decline in Europe’s leadership in science and technology and never regaining the lead. Until 1945 and a still a few years later, Europe held a commanding lead in the number of Nobel Prizes earned. The USA actually had very few Nobel Prize recipients until European Jews and some others moved from Europe to the USA in the 1930’s and 40’s. Until this time, the USA was not a leader in pure science. Germany, France, Great Britain and Italy were the star performers with Germany having the most Nobel Prizes. The USA also benefitted from taking the jets, rockets and other technologies Germany developed during the war and bringing the engineers that developed them to the USA. Still, I would have expected Europe to gradually regain their former strength. They never did. Instead, east Asia soared out of relative backwardness ahead of Europe and the USA in consumer electronics. With the advent of the PC the USA re-entered the competition in consumer electronics.

    We are often told of Jewish contributions to science and other fields (more often than not, by Jews themselves) and this gives people a distorted view of things and some people might assume this accounts for Europe not regaining the lead. I don’t think so. Until the 20th century, Jews contributed very little to mathematics, science and other fields. They have always been known for their talent with money, but they were new to most other fields. By one estimate, I once read that it’s estimated that among Germany’s Nobel Prize recipients, roughly one third were Jewish. This is a remarkable figure considering the number of Jews in Germany, but still they were outnumbered by German Christians. Also of note is that it’s estimated that Germany had about 500 to 600,000 Jews prior to the National Socialists taking power in 1933, but Poland had about three million Jews and I believe the only Nobel Prize winner from Poland prior to 1945 was Marie Curie, a Polish Christian. Similarly, the USSR had something like 1.5 to 2 million Jews but no Nobel Prizes. The USA had a similar number and had very few Nobel Prizes. Science, engineering and mathematics were very important in Europe and I think there were several factors explaining why Europe never regaining the lead and I think it would be helpful for them to research the various factors that contributed to this and it might help them enter the race again. I believe one factor is that some people (including Germans themselves) did not want to see Germany in a leadership position again and when I see the mass migration of uneducated Africans and Arabs to Europe I conclude that Europe is deliberately pursuing policies to make themselves less competitive and eventually backwards.

  67. I know the discussion is Europe, but I couldn’t help noting this particular observation by Durocher:

    “Instead, most commonly the society is divided into innumerable often-hostile tribes, the government is corrupt, and too often the people themselves are vicious and cruel…”

    That’s actually a perfect description of the city of Los Angeles, over 700 square miles of villages each with its own culture and language and varying degrees of acceptance (and hostility) to outsiders. Although many cities and towns in the US are the same due to the multicultural/illegal immigration juggernaut. No melting pot that I can see.

    Good article.

  68. @m___

    m, perhaps, is attempting a parody of Judith Butler or Jacques Derrida.

  69. onebornfree says: • Website

    “…Every nation should be prudent and moderate in its economics and not assume anything is “wrong” with them just because they are poor. Who knows, may be in the long run we’ll succeed in directly addressing the issue by begetting smarter and wiser human beings…..”

    Such a long article! And it never really gets the point, which can be gotten to in a few simple sentences [ after all, it ain’t rocket science!]:

    All governments are 100% criminal enterprises that slowly impoverish their citizens as they grow in size and power. The bigger the government, the more laws that inhibit individual freedom both socially and economically, then the lower the standard of living will be for the average person, and the higher the standard of living will be for those inside the government. Conversely, the smaller the government, the more restricted it is to certain, well defined functions,[such as “national defense”] the higher the standard of living will be for the average person outside of the government

    If you want to read long, in-depth, highly eloquent explanations explaining that fundamental truth, then I would refer you to the writings of persons such as Murray Rothbard and Ludwig Von Mises, or even Smith’s “Wealth of Nations”. And lets not forget, for this French author, the writings of Frederic Bastiat [ eg his “Broken Window” theory], about which and whom Mr Durocher appears to be entirely ignorant.

    All we really get here is a lot of long -winded psuedo-intellectual theorizing about “convergence”. etc.

    Like I said, it ain’t rocket science 🙂

    regards, onebornfree

  70. Anonymous [AKA "Sam F34"] says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    The article blathers at length but never argues the point of nature vs. nurture in regional development. Not a single point rises above speculation that nature rather than circumstance (cultural, economic, historical) is the cause. The article merely repeats endlessly the charts of inequality and repeats endlessly the demand that we presume that the cause is nature rather than nurture. This is deliberate propaganda against development aid, a purely selfish rant.

  71. @WHAT

    As has China, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. These countries are arguably MORE developed that European backwaters like Malta or wherever.

  72. None of Eastern European countries had the capacity of supporting industries to develop manufacturing industries of cars except Czechia and Yugoslavia.
    Czechia made cars long before Soviet times. They made Skoda and Tatra. Skoda was made with four cylinder engine, and Tatra was made with six cylinder engine and it was luxury car, Chases of Tatra was made in Slovakia. Some designs from Skoda were adopted by Swedish Volvo. Eventually under Soviet times Yugoslavia was capable of making their little Yugo. All other Eastern European countries could only dream of making cars.

  73. George says:
    @English Yobbo

    “Germany did not have to pay for its defence from the Soviet Union until the 1950s. Also in 1953 the there was the London Debt Agreement where the USA leaned on Britain, France and numerous other European countries to write off Germany’s pre-war debt to them.”

    Germany and the European center also benefited from the high relative defense spending of the Mediterranian region, including North Africa and Israel. There was never a public acknowledgment of this but Italian PM Berlusconi essentially had secret treaties with Libya and other nations. The Mediterranean eventually collapsed and could not stop the invasion of Germany. At this point instead of small subsidies for Libya and Greece Germany and the rest will pay huge subsidies to their third world citizens. I suspect the disruption of German demographics will result in a fall in German competitiveness similar to what happened in Detroit.

    The nations to successfully exit the financial crisis are Iceland and Ireland who are not stuck with NATO required spending. Greece, on the other hand, has huge defense costs and debts to Germany for U-Boats and other military stuff.

    • Replies: @PeterMX
  74. @Cyrano

    I still believe that there are various types of intelligence – one of which is an emotional intelligence. Slovenians for example – have probably close to 0 emotional IQ. I mean, I have never met any Slovenian that wasn’t in a urgent need of a personality transplant.

    Thanks for your comment! Strongly suspect this sort of thing would be related to low corruption & care in following rules.

  75. @Anonymous

    To be honest, I do favor development aid, but not on the (in my view misguided) assumption that the poor countries are supposed to be as rich as the North. Northerners have too much money already, they should be willing to dedicate resources to the South . . . to stabilize them, lower their birth rates (female education, condoms, & abortion in Africa pronto!), reduce incentives for emigration, and generally make the world more orderly.

  76. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    The DDR had the Wartburg.
    Three cilinder two stroke, as DKW.
    When EU rules in fact forbade two stroke engines Wartburg lacked the money to develop a four stroke engine.
    The factory agreed with Renault to use their engines, Honecker did not allow it, capitalistic, end of Wartburg.
    They sold with the two stroke engine quite well in the Netherlands and Belgium, the Belgian importer equipped the cars with a system adding oil to the petrol.
    But let us not forget the Trabant, the DDR 2CV, but far simpler.
    Skoda in Tsjecholovakia developed very little.
    The back engined cars were hopeless with side wind, therefore cost next to nothing in the Netherlands.
    Production was primitive, I was in the Tsjech factory in 1965.
    Just after VW bought Skoda it became a factory of importance again.
    BTW, the VW Beetle was a Tsjech design.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  77. This is an ambitious essay so it deserves a thorough answer.

    Unfortunately for the author, he gets a lot wrong. Start with his GDP per capita as the key metric. It’s the wrong metric. What matters is output per hour.

    The fact that France is significantly lower than the US is almost entirely due to much lower working hours. In other words, this is a socio-political choice, not that France has somehow failed.

    Regarding the blue banana, it is a bad theory. Look at Scandinavia on all those old maps. Scandinavia was a dump for most of the Middle Ages. It was barely literate. Yet it changed drastically in the last 200 years.

    One could say, well, that’s all just because of high IQ. Maybe, but if that was true all along, why wasn’t it more advanced during the spread of the printing press etc. Europe was not that isolated, especially as the Hanseatic League was a major force in Europe during the latter stages of the middle ages.

    The “Blue Banana” is bunk. Especially today as a greater share of manufacturing/industrial strength is moving towards Central Europe. Slovakia has the highest car production in per capita terms in the whole world. Just as an example.

    Regarding your Polish map, the fact that the Western part voted for PO has nothing to do with older German lands. Most of those who live in the Today’s western part of Poland are Poles who came from the East. It has nothing to do with Germany.

    One more thing. There has infact been considerable convergence over the last 20-30 years.

    The “middle income trap” is also completely incorrect.

    I want to close off by saying that I do not want to be too harsh. I largely agree with your metaanalysis (Germanic populations + East Asians are the two basic wealth creators of this world, with everyone else riding their coattails), but there are so many careless and in some cases outright baseless remarks in the piece that it undermines your thesis for those who are less generous than I am and more hostile to HBD thinking.

  78. @utu

    I wouldn’t call r=.82 “very poor.”

    • Replies: @utu
  79. It would be intelligent and advisible to read a book that discusses such matters competently. There is such a book: The Divide. A brief guide to global inequality and its solutions. By Jason Hickel. There Durocher could find answers to most of his questions.

    He asked for instance how come Africa is so poor if they receive so much money to aid them. But has he taken the trouble to see how much money Africa sends to our underdeveloped lands of the North (Europe and the US)? If we see the numbers, we will have to question who are the true poor nations and who are the rich nations.

    Lets see a case (I don’t take this directly from the book by Hickel). Some African countries had an internal market and some jobs for their population. Europe subsidises some of its agrarian products and destroyed their markets. People there are able to produce but they can’t sell their products because the European Union exports its surplus agrarian production for nothing. The EU also fishes their coasts until they are empty and because of that local fishers can’t find anything anymore.

    Durocher needs to make so many assumptions to fill holes in order to make his model function that it would be better to seek other kind of explanations. Jason Hickel in his brillant book and other authors can offer much better explanations.

  80. Bruno says:

    This model doesn’t explain the growth of Ireland ? Is it due to institutions despite a very low average IQ ? Or did the IQ changed ?

    It doesn’t explain why Argentina was so rich during the first half of XXth century or went down so much ? Is it because of bad populism ? Is it because Spanish/Italian mixed with mestizas from Paraguay and Amazonia ?

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
    , @Nawi
  81. @Anon 2

    It must be humiliating for Russia to see its former enslaved Central European satellites race ahead

    I can guarantee you that Poles are a lot more obsessed with Russia than vice versa, that is my experience at least and given that you are Polish, your comment is congruent with my personal observation.

    Russia, unlike Poland, is a fully sovereign country. Poland is now hosting anti-Iran conferences, arresting Huawei executives and much more all in a desperate ploy to appease ZOG USA. The biggest private TV network, TVN, has been bought up by (Jewish) American citizens and will now push multicultural propaganda even more ferociously, all the while as the (Jewish) American ambassador in Poland are sending stern letters with the dismissive tone of a colonial administrator to the prime minister in which she shills for said TV station. What does Poland do? Bends over backwards even more. I’d prefer being somewhat poorer but being fully sovereign over living in gold chains.

    More to the point, it’s not even clear that Poland is that far ahead of Russia in the first place. In GDP per capita, sure, but as I’ve explained previously it’s not a great indicator for competitiveness (output per hour worked is better) but for standard of living you really want a household survey.

    The World Bank poverty database has excellent resources looking at PPP-adjusted consumption income, which is a much better proxy for underlying standards of living than GDP. Why consumption instead of income? Because consumption doesn’t differentiate between white and black income, the way GDP statistics do. Only white income is showing in GDP. Consumption is consumption, regardless of income source.

    Select Russia and Poland, then choose 10 USD as your baseline. Why 10 USD? Because that’s the agreed baseline for being ‘middle class’ according to most development economists. Poland has almost 25% being below 10 USD, Russia is ‘only’ at 18%. So Russia has a lower share of people being considered below middle-class.

    Their mean (PPP-adjusted) consumption is 680 USD per person per month, Poland is at 519 USD. So quite a difference. True, from 2016 onwards Poland has grown quite rapidly while Russia has grown far slower, so the gap has most likely narrowed if not closed soon. Nevertheless, the image of the ‘backward Russia’ is simply incorrect. Their standard of living is equal, if not slightly higher, than that of the average Pole. Their nominal wages are lower, but their shadow economy is also far greater. That’s why you should look at consumption rather than official income data.


  82. @Polish Perspective

    Regarding the blue banana, it is a bad theory. Look at Scandinavia on all those old maps. Scandinavia was a dump for most of the Middle Ages. It was barely literate. Yet it changed drastically in the last 200 years.

    Indeed, a very big puzzle, much like how higher IQ Germanics were barbarians while the Mesopotamians were writing the world’s first law code.

    Until one introduces literacy into the equation.

    Literacy, in turn, only becomes possible with the appearance of urban life. That was technologically impractical in Northern Europe until relatively recently. And Sweden was especially affected by that.

    Start with his GDP per capita as the key metric. It’s the wrong metric. What matters is output per hour.

    (1) Ideally, you’d then also want to adjust for many other things, such as America’s much bigger NAM population. And even leaving that aside…

    (2) France works 1472 hours per year, the US works 1789 hours. France is at 82% of the US level, but gap in GDP per capita is bigger (66% nominal, 73% PPP).

    (3) I don’t think the conversion can be linear anyway, because people who work less will just take measures to prioritize the most important tasks. In other words, if France was to start implementing longer work hours in a bit to catch up to US per capita production, it will only eke out paltry gains at the cost of big drops in productivity.

  83. Regarding the economic sluggishness of Eastern Europe, I wonder what role the Bolshevik brain drains may have contributed to retarding the development of Eastern Europe. The communists practiced a policy of “decapitation”, wherein smart professionals and leaders were deported to gulags or outright killed. This was to create a more docile and easily controlled population of course. The Kaitlin massacre in Poland is a good example of this from the early Stalinist period. I had a Latvian friend who claimed when the bolsheviks first took over they deported hundreds of thousands but when the stalinists resumed control after ww2, they took much fewer. That may not sound like that many, but keep in mind these are relatively small countries with only a few million people.This is the reason why many Eastern European countries such as Ukraine and Hungary actually favored the nazis over the communists, welcoming the nazis as liberators in some cases!

    I have read that former communist eastern Germany persistently lags the west economically. Could this be part of the reason, that their smart set was decimated?
    Just a hypothesis.

  84. Bruno says:

    Else the article is very interesting and it’s good to read a French guy contributing to Unz.

  85. @Polish Perspective

    Thanks for your comment.

    Unfortunately for the author, he gets a lot wrong. Start with his GDP per capita as the key metric. It’s the wrong metric. What matters is output per hour.

    The fact that France is significantly lower than the US is almost entirely due to much lower working hours. In other words, this is a socio-political choice, not that France has somehow failed.

    I don’t entirely disagree. I don’t think labor rationing is necessarily a bad thing either. France might in optimal position in terms of work/life balance vs. productivity. Question is: Would French GDP/capita equal the U.S. if the French worked as much? I am not so sure (see: Japan).

    Regarding the blue banana, it is a bad theory. Look at Scandinavia on all those old maps. Scandinavia was a dump for most of the Middle Ages. It was barely literate. Yet it changed drastically in the last 200 years.

    Scandinavia’s historical poverty is not surprising given their low population density and absolutely brutal climactic conditions. (Fits with traditional thesis: too cold too allow civilization, so cold that it selected for more far-sighted and rules-following humans.)

    Regarding your Polish map, the fact that the Western part voted for PO has nothing to do with older German lands. Most of those who live in the Today’s western part of Poland are Poles who came from the East. It has nothing to do with Germany.

    What do you think explains this?

    • Replies: @Beckow
  86. @jilles dykstra

    I was very impressed with plastic injection molded parts on Wartburg and Trabant.
    Very advanced at the time.

  87. @Anon

    probably we should talk about all kidney’s they are all the same?. Everyone’s heart is exactly the same.. and feet, oh yes everyone should wear a size 9 shoe.. cause that’s the norm..cut off the excess on those oversize and attach the excised excess to those with dimensional sort falls. Fantastic article hits at the heart of false, misleading population and social propaganda.. I predict the messenger may become the afactural target of revengeful attack.

    May’s demise .. ?

    The human mind, is self programmed, to accord with sensory interaction with experience. .. unless everyone’s experience can be made to be the same (which I believe is the objective of the owners of the MSM and the governments they regulate by their filth) no one will ever be the same and no culture will be the same.

    In addition to self programmed current lifetime programming there exist two quantum effects on generation to generation DNA programming that have a lot to do with how the self life programming is wired..

    Once again thanks for the data.. excellent presentation.

  88. @Chaotic Neutral

    No, it can’t have been.

    The economic and social distortions the Communists caused were severe and will take time to resolve. A country like Poland is probably well more than halfway there. More severely affected countries, such as those within the borders of the original USSR where Communism was more severe and lasted longest, will take longer to recuperate to the level they “should be” at.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  89. @Bruno

    Ireland: don’t know.

    Argentina: yes & yes. Also, Argentina was comparatively rich when most of the economy was agricultural, so a land-rich whitish country. When wealth-creation required more complex and cognitively-demanding social organization (i.e. industry & services), the country fell behind.

    • Replies: @j2
  90. Beckow says:
    @Anon 2

    …Czechia (followed closely by Slovakia) not only moved ahead of Greece and Portugal

    Czechoslovakia had a higher living standard than Greece, Portugal, Italy and Ireland before 1990, around 10-25% higher. That was also true for Hungary, but not for Poland. Most of the post-1990 ‘miracle‘ is based on very dramatic fluctuation in exchange rates between 1990 and 2019. In the early 90’s they dropped by 70%, stayed low for 10 years and since then they have slowly recovered. The exchange rates will keep on rising, Czechia will soon surpass UK and France in effective GNP/capita.

    The problem is that PPP GNP only partially compensates for exchange rate changes. It looks at a small basket of consumer goods (MacDonalds, shoes, gas…), but completely omits 80% of the economy: housing, health care, education, pensions… So PPP is only a small indicator that shouldn’t be used as extensively as Durocher s using here. His basic point about a ‘lack of convergence‘ is correct, but the analysis is very flawed. He has some weird blind spots.

    Upper Silesia – Krakow (cultural capital) metropolitan area all by itself has the population of about 10 million (same as Czechia) and GDP larger than Czechia.

    Not true at all. I checked the numbers and Czechia is about 20% better than even the richest parts of Poland. It is by the way also visible when you travel in Prague or Brno versus Krakow or Katowice: the difference is obvious and very dramatic. Poland has done well, but a lot of it has to do with the reverse demographic ‘miracle’ – Poland shed 2-3 million workers to emigration in 20 years. When you do that, per capita numbers look really good (E Germany did this under communism by shedding 3 million people).

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    , @Anon 2
  91. Sean says:
    @English Yobbo

    A substantial amount of Britain’s Marshall Aid was spent on tobacco, considered essential for working class morale.

    • Replies: @Alden
  92. Wally says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    You should do an article for Unz about that.

    But then you will no doubt censor comments that you do not like. Which is exactly what you do when YOU discuss the fake “holocaust” in your articles here, but then censor comments with challenges to your easily debunked false assumptions.

    But hey, you will no doubt love this as we inch our way forward to US laws against free speech on the impossible “holocaust” like those in Europe:
    Trump signs Elie Wiesel Act into law

    Only lies require censorship.

  93. @ia

    “You wouldn’t by chance like to move to somewhere in Africa would you? Or even Baltimore? You could help them throw off the white man’s shackles”

    You forgot to add Memphis, St Louis, Gary, Detroit, Birmingham, Atlanta, Cleveland, South and west sides Chicago, Flint, East St Louis, Camden, Newark, New Orleans, etc etc etc.

    All these places are heavily populated by Africans. The Africans bring their genetics and culture and create new Africas.

  94. Sean says:

    The shift in the balance of trade inside the now 28-member EU in the decade since its eastward enlargement began offers a striking illustration.

    The golden football region – Germany, the Netherlands, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Romania – increased its share of intra-EU trade by a total of 5.3 percentage points between 2004 and 2013, the latest year for which final data is published. The biggest gains accrued to Germany with 2.2 percentage points.

    Over the same period, the Atlantic Arc region englobing Britain, France, Ireland, Spain and Portugal lost a cumulative 4.4 percentage points in intra-EU market share, led downwards by Spain and the UK. Italy also lost 1.7 percentage points…/uk-manufacturing-has-lost-600000-jobs-in-a-decade-sa…

    Hence Brexit.

  95. Beckow says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    …What do you think explains this?

    Most of it is due to real estate prices. The way it has worked in post-cummunist countries: the housing was given under communism-socialism largely for free. After 1990 that housing was gradually given to the people living in it (privatised). The ones living in capitol cities and desirable areas were given in effect a one-time large gift of wealth. For most of them it was more than what they would make working in a life-time. The ones living in most of the rest of the country, in poor provinces mostly in the east, got close to nothing.

    The new real estate rich people in Prague, Warsaw, Krakow and the areas close to Germany feel wealthy and want to protect it, they vote for the euro-centric liberal parties. The ‘provincials‘ are angry and want to get something too, thus they vote ‘populist‘).

    The electoral maps show this very clearly: metropolitan liberals versus small-town/rural populists. It is mostly driven by the real estate prices. Something similar has happened in the West (Thatcher privatising council housing). The newly real-estate wealthy metropolitan liberals also like open borders – the newcomers over time bid up the housing prices even more. Plus the rental income.

    • Replies: @g2k
  96. @Anatoly Karlin

    Poland agricultural country. Poland has not even basic industry for consumer goods,
    Besides shipyards Poland has nothing. If Ukraine will eventually join EU the agricultural competition
    will push Poland into poverty. There was well know among our boys that taking two blankets to Poland they could have sex with Polish girl for a week.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @hgw
  97. Another good one from Guillaume!

    The European Union has a number of policies which are supposed to foster convergence between member countries: the EU budget redistributes billions of euros of agricultural, regional development, and other funds from wealthier rich countries to poorer ones; access to the Common Market (an economy as big as China or the United States); and even a common currency, the Euro, which enables all members to enjoy a money as stable as that of Germany and reduces transaction costs … to be fair, it appears that the Eurozone’s poor design has further weakened Mediterranean economies – wiping out their industry and making them vulnerable to financial instability and usury, while giving Germany cheap exports and negative interest rates – making them underperform relative to their natural level.

    I was going to make the latter point myself–the one about the euro being a bad deal for southern Europe–then I saw that Guillaume knew it, too. Honestly, that’s probably the smartest thing that Hungary, Poland, etc. have done: not adopt the euro. That gives them a significant labor-cost advantage over, say, Italy. Incidentally, Italians have confirmed for me that their standard of living has fallen noticeably since the adoption of the euro … so have the French.

    And the current GDP per capita of European regions …

    Hmmm. Guillaume, am I misreading your little graph here? Am I to understand that the Republic of Ireland is economically on par with London and Munich? Really? And this data supposedly comes from 2015, a full seven years after the economic crash in Ireland. Sorry, knowing people from all of these places as I do, this is just hard to believe.

    Institutions clearly matter. The Japanese had not thought of the idea of capitalism until Commodore Perry’s black ships forced them to open up their country to foreign trade at gunpoint in 1854. The Japanese, unlike 80% of nations, proved quite adept at capitalism.

    In truth, Japanese capitalism resembles our own current model but little. If you ever familiarize yourself with their traditional keiretsu practices, you’ll see that it’s an extremely Fordist, state-corporate model that promotes full-employment with benefits for all–nothing like the winner-take-all, dog-eat-dog model that prevails in present day America (and elsewhere in the West). In its own way, it’s a bit more like what our parents and grandparents knew back in the 50s and 60s. Unlike the US though, the Japs seem never to have abandoned it. Even through the worst of their long period of economic stagnation beginning in 1990, their unemployment rate never rose above 5%, and their median incomes barely took a hit.

    The fact that Poland has overtaken Greece and Czechia has overtaken Portugal …

    A question for my fellow Americans here: are people in the US now saying ‘Czechia’? Back when I left, we were still saying ‘Czech Republic’. Has that changed? Not an important point. Just wondering …

    Anyway, thanks again for another thought-provoking article, Guillaume.

  98. utu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    In European context IQ vs. PISA or TIMSS correlation is so low it is irrelevant.

  99. Rich says:

    I think I agree that a high IQ people are a definite plus for material success in a nation, and as a proud American of European heritage, I’m more than happy to take a pat on the back. But, truth is, not too long ago, there were some very poor Europeans. The poverty of the French in the 18th century led to a pretty serious revolution. The poor of the British Isles were forced to emigrate so they could eat. Millions of Germans emigrated to the foreign speaking colonies of the English to escape poverty. No, I think there’s more to it. I believe it was always the shortage of labor that helped bring prosperity to the European folk. Plagues ended serfdom in much of Europe and the average man could sell his wage to the highest bidder. Constant wars led to a shortage of workers which led to higher pay. Here in the US a man could pack up his family and go anywhere to start up a farm, business or to sell his labor. Now, as immigrants are flooded into Western societies and wages are suppressed, we’ll get to see how much our higher IQs saves us from what I’m pretty sure will return us to the pre-WWII poverty most of our ancestors knew. We’ll see.

  100. schrub says:

    In this article and the comments that follow it, we see statistics followed by more statistics. It might be time to define exactly what statistics are.

    Statistics are:
    1: A mathematical system whose principal purposed is to keep incumbent politicians in office
    2: A mathematical system designed to allow an opposing political party to assume office
    3: A mathematical system designed to generate grant money to fund government agencies’ and universities’ studies of the policies of the groups in 1 and 2.

    While we are in this discussion let me take a short pause to ask, what is a literary classic? My own definition of true and enduring literary masterpieces are books that are considered so valuable that they never go out of print. Shakespeare’s writings obviously fit into this category easily.

    But how about another classic: Darrel Huffs’ clever little tome called “How to Lie With Statistics” which is considered so valuable by many that it has never gone out of print since it was first published in 1954, (sixty-five years ago). It will totally change your opinion about government statistics in particular.

    Read the reviews about it for an understanding of its contents.

    I first read this book decades ago and it has greatly influenced me ever since then. It has made me realize that the basis of all government-generated statistics are inherently tainted and the result of numbers 1 through 3 above. This witty little book should be required reading for every high school student and every adult.

    Probably the most egregious example of present-day statistical fraud both in the USA and worldwide are governments’ inflation figures. This figure’s main purpose here in the USA is to under-report inflation in order to lessen the COLA (cost of living adjustment) to keep our increasing insolvent social security and government retirement systems afloat. This is done by what are called “substitutions”. (ie. when a current component of the inflation figure gets too expensive, it is quickly eliminated and something else that is cheaper is “substituted” for it. )

    Is there any group or organization that really supplies truthful answers about what the actual inflation rate actually is. Yes, there is, Shadowstats, a private company. It is an outfit I first learned about years ago when its head, John Williams, was interviewed on a TV program that I was watching. Needless to say, what he said then was a revelation to me: I was being continually lied to by my government. Note: I have no co0nnection to this company and have never met either its head or anyone connected to it. I have been told however that people in corporate finance consult its figures religiously.

    This very reliable (and in my opinion, legendary) Petaluma, California based company charges for its most comprehensive inflation studies but their very interesting front page is free and it includes a small chart of what the current inflation rate actually is. It also describes current “substitutions”. Take a look at this chart and then take a look at your own salary. Prepare to get more than a little uneasy or even nauseous.

    Hint: Remember the blue line on the chart before your next annual salary review. If you are offered anything much less than 5 or 6 % you are actually getting a salary decrease. If you are only getting 5 or 6% you are merely treading water and it might also be time to also start looking for a new job.

    Consider the same figures when you decide to put your money into a certificate of deposit that is only paying 2-3% in interest. Inflation is simply eating up your nest egg.

  101. Svigor says:

    Better yet, stop all aid to Africa and watch her birthrates plummet.

  102. Svigor says:

    This is genuinely the left’s answer to the author’s question as to why western malfeasance causes blacks so much more trouble than it causes anyone else: “I dunno, ask the malfeasant westerners.” IOW, cuz whitey be more raciss agin’ da noble black man than he be agin’ anyone else.

    Leftists don’t really have much need for answers that make sense. If they did, they wouldn’t be leftists.

    On the plus side, leftists are a mile wide, and an inch deep; most of them will evaporate when leftist Money and Power are broken.

  103. @Tsigantes

    Why not both? Do you really think the mestizo race is the equal of the sassenach and his pets? As above, so below.

  104. Svigor says:

    but to assume that they have lover IQ because they live further down south is just fantasy based.

    Pretty sure that’s a straw man; i.e., the fantasy is yours.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  105. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Romania made its own cars (Dacia), tractors, trucks, street cars, locomotives, ships, airplanes. In the 50s, 60s and 70s Romania didn’t import shit, exported everything that was good to pay off the debt to the IMF, but after 89 revolution, the bolsheviks sold entire factories to foreign corporations, that, in many cases, just closed them down to eliminate competition.

    • Agree: Ilyana_Rozumova
  106. It’s very true that France was, and still is, a better place to grow up, but the downside is that by never recognizing the hard truths, one stays forever a child. And this article is the epitome of childish thinking. Hard world facts, not some artsy theory of IQ differences are what mattered.

    Out of this hodge-podge, I will focus on two nations: France and Italy. One is relatively much richer. What Durocher fails to mention is the source of France’s wealth, and why Italy does not share that wealth.

    1. France has stolen most of its wealth from Haiti and Africa, and formerly from South East Asia. Inform yourself of the Charles X Ransom, one of the most evil wealth transfers ever. France stripped Haiti of everything from 1825-1947 ! After France was officially drummed out of Africa, its neo-colonialism meant the economic theft went on, the same as before. The French bank still steals enormous wealth from Africa in a systematic method. Ghadaffi’s African Development Bank would have stopped that, which is why France was the most eager to get rid of the AFrican nation with the world’s highest “development index”, meaning free education right through any graduate school in the world, and free health care. By merely being an alternative to the predation of the French central bank, Libya’s African Development Bank would have ended one of France’s major income sources.

    2. Italy never got much from its little empire in Africa. It savaged Libya in the 1930’s, murdered over a million people in concentration camps, but didn’t get much wealth in return, AFAIK.

    3. On its own soil, France has major coal reserves, whereas Italy has no coal, no oil, no gas. France has large plains which support mechanized agriculture, while Italy doesn’t have much land for this.

    4. France was wealthy enough to pursue nuclear power, and Italy didn’t have the money to get past that threshold.

    5. After 1945, up until 1975, the various French governments pursued policies of national growth. By comparison, post-1945 Italian governments never had coherent policies for national growth. The phenomenal growth 1945-1969, ending abject poverty was largely, I think – prove me wrong – due to the diligence and ingenuity of Italians working without the aid of their government. The worst of the Fourth Republic was vastly superior to the mafia-ridden Italian government. The French have serious graduate schools of national administration and AFAIK, the Italians did not.

    6. The straight-jacket of the Euro killed the Italian economy. Historically, Italy paid out more interest on national bonds, and defaulted every 20 or 30 years, so it all worked out. Italian goods were significantly cheaper, therefore competitive, and Italy’s economy functioned. The Euro killed Italy’s cost advantage, and their economy has flat-lined for the last ten years.

    M. Durocher, you could restart your assessment by accounting for the massive boost to France of the Charles X Ransom. And then go on to account for all the other forced contributions from the rest of the world.

  107. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    This is an ambitious essay…

    There is nothing worse than a combination of earnest ambition and ignorance. Clearly the author is toying with IQism which is unusual for a Frenchmen as the simplistic reductionism of Anglo-Saxon empiricism that gave birth to the IQism is antithetical to the whole French intellectual tradition. Too bad that Alfred Binet because of his untimely death could not impart greater influence on the research of intelligence and instead it was shaped and dominated by simplistic reductionists like Spearman. Binet in great tradition of French epistemology (see Pierre Duhem or Henri Poincare) would have never been fooled by the reification tricks pulled off by Spearman.

    • Replies: @phil
  108. anonymous[389] • Disclaimer says:

    Furthermore, successful nodes in the capitalist order are liable to suck up the brains of the less successful ones and forge ahead with new industries and infrastructure, meaning a permanent gap. I suspect factors such as these are the reasons for northern England’s relative poverty compared to the south

    According to HG Wells in 1920, there is a difference in the racial stock of north v. south. So the disparities in wealth between the regions of England is also likely due to race and genetics.

    These short dark Iberian tribes (and the Basques also if they were a different race) were thrust back westward, and conquered and enslaved by slowly advancing waves of the taller and fairer Aryan-speaking people, coming southward and westward through Central Europe, who are spoken of as the Kelts. Only the Basque resisted the conquering Aryan speech. Gradually these Keltic-speakers made their way to the Atlantic, and all that now remains of the Iberians is mixed into the Keltic population. How far the Keltic invasion affected the Irish population is a matter of debate at the present time; in that island the Kelts may have been a mere caste of conquerors who imposed their language on a larger subject population. It is even doubtful if the north of England is more Aryan than pre-Keltic in blood. There is a sort of short dark Welshman, and certain types of Irishmen, who are Iberians by race. The modern Portuguese are also largely of Iberian blood.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  109. Cyrano says:

    Then how do you explain that despite all the “evidence” of high Ukrainian IQ, you have 0 to show for it?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  110. @gone,gone beyond

    Compare Italy with Japan, S. Korea, China.


  111. j2 says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    I do not know so well, but I think Ireland was originally poor but got lots of development money from the EU and used it well.

    But about the article, I think you forgot one important aspect and that is the distance to the center
    of mass. That is, though there are airplanes and networks and all that, the distance form a center to
    peripheria is much larger than the distance from peripheria to the center. And this is seen as money and competent people flowing naturally to the center and the centers develop faster, despite some governmental money transfers in the opposite direction. Thus, you take a ruler and draw a circle around the center of mass in Europe, which need not the the geometrical mass as it depends on harbors and large cities and such. On the outskirts you will notice lower GDP and also a bit lower IQ, as they correlate and people move.

    • Replies: @Sean
  112. Alden says: • Website

    Smoking lessens appetite, which was essential in the days of rationing and low wages.

    • Disagree: Sean
  113. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    There is no danger to Poland, then. As the joke has it:
    – When is Ukraine going to join the EU?
    – Right after Turkey.
    – And when is Turkey going to join the EU?
    – Never.

    BTW, Poland no longer has shipyards. They were built in Gdansk by Soviet “oppressors”, kept working due to the orders from those “oppressors”, were the birthplace of Solidarity movement against these “oppressors”, and then thanks to the “freedom” of EU they are mostly disused now (, because the shipyards of the other EU countries do not want competition.

  114. @Cyrano

    What is the evidence of high Ukrainian IQ, pray? The IQ in a nation that willingly stepped into the same trap not once, but three times (1991, 2004, 2014) must be pretty low. Remember, “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”?

    • Replies: @Talha
  115. Alden says: • Website

    Right you are. “ colonize White wombs” is all over the pro White sites. It’s pervy and porny. He should keep his fantasies to himself

  116. Sean says:

    ,Something like that is part of the answer, Yet even through then EU single economic area has not changed the geography, Germany is draining the wealth and productive capacity from Belgium and those parts of France that are at the center of the EU landmass. So the border so often formed at geographic features such as rivers and mountains, where also where there were exchange rates and economic barriers.

  117. jamie b. says:

    Was that even English?

    • Replies: @apollonian
  118. Talha says:

    Maybe we ought to think of nations like individuals in this respect: each one has its particular interests, aptitudes, and failings. And that’s all right. We shouldn’t expect everyone to want or be the same.

    Excellent point!


  119. PeterMX says:

    Germany did not become a part of NATO until 1955. They were occupied, had no allies, were forbidden to have an army and were forbidden to do research in many areas. Who would they pay for their defense and why would they pay it? In addition, the USSR, USA and Great Britain got their new air forces and missile programs from the jets and missiles taken from Germany at the end of the war, while forbidding Germany from using the technologies they developed. These countries benefitted greatly from technologies in many different areas taken from Germany.

    The only pre-war debt that Germany owed to Great Britain and France that I’m aware of would have been the debt those countries claimed Germany owed them for damage suffered in WW I (the infamous Versailles Treaty). I believe that debt was renounced by Germany not long after Hitler came to power. It was then also that French troops stopped crossing the border into Germany and attacking people and countries like Poland and Lithuania stopped attacking Germany and stealing additional lands not given to them at Versailles. In 1923 the German city Memel was attacked by Lithuania and claimed as their own and Poles also made additional land grabs. All that changed in 1933 and shortly thereafter Germany started making their own claims, demanding the return of German lands under foreign occupation.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  120. phil says:

    I suggest that you look at the World Health Organisation’s data on parasite prevalence and work days lost due to it. Sub-Saharan Africa is far and away the most problematic place. On the other hand, East Asian countries, including China, have taken steps to overcome parasite challenges, more so than Africa.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  121. phil says:

    I suggest that you read Garett Jones’ article in Economic Systems (2012): “Cognitive Skill and Technology Diffusion.” In regressions involving dozens of countries, and with the growth of total factor productivity as the dependent variable, average IQ was found to be the only robust explanatory variable amongst more than 60 candidates. The alleged benefits of years of education, capitalism, latitude, low cost capital, etc.–mostly melted away once IQ was in the equation.

  122. apollonian says: • Website
    @jamie b.

    He’s abstracted–disconnected–the common trait of schizophrenia and schiziodal condition. What happens is these people begin to live within their mental world most intent upon “theory” and conceptual constructs–evermore oblivious to the sensory world of perception and concrete particulars which they tend to consider less valuable or important. Some of his phrases and sentences barely make any sense whatever. He seems to be engaged mostly w. himself in a kind of internal dialectic.

  123. peterAUS says:

    Probably O.T. but, here it goes:
    I see people here commenting on “m___” posts, or better, lack of clarity there.

    Be that as it may, I’ve, personally, found quite interesting insights and ideas there.

    I don’t mind his posts. Definitely prefer them to, say……70 % of comments/commentators around.
    All you, who don’t like his posts, need to do is just put him on ignore list. Or, if feeling charitable, skim through his writings. I do it for those 70 % all the time. speech goes well with free ignoring.
    Beats censorship, all the time.

    • Replies: @m___
    , @m___
  124. Talha says:

    There is a massive difference between intelligence and wisdom; I would not conflate the two.


    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Svigor
  125. German_reader says:
    @Chaotic Neutral

    I have read that former communist eastern Germany persistently lags the west economically.

    East Germany suffered massive population drain both before 1961 (the wall was built exactly for that reason after all, if East Germans had continued leaving on that scale, the GDR would have been in severe trouble) and after 1989; obviously the smarter and more enterprising East Germans were more likely to leave.

    • Replies: @By-tor
  126. g2k says:

    What you describe certainly happened, but i don’t see this affecting voting patterns. In the UK, Thatcher’s right to buy affected the whole country (though those living in expensive areas got a bigger windfall) and the home counties are as expensive as gentrified london. Voting patterns in England are as follows: The shires:Solid tory, with a few libdem pockets, Rustbelt: solid Labour. Deprived inner cities:labour, gentrified inner cities: labor, libdem, possibly green. Old money inner cities: tory. Elections are won and lost in the suburbs of light-industry towns.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  127. guitarzan says:

    Gadaffi had a plan to put Africa on an honest gold standard, anathema to the global central banks and their control over nations. The vestiges of colonialism via the IMF, BIS, World Bank, etc…, have transferred the wealth from many nations up and out of these countries.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  128. anonymous[294] • Disclaimer says:

    Meanwhile, London and Paris are dangerous minefields in comparison and only the old still remember the freedoms and safety they had back in the day when those cities were European.

    Payment for all the rape and plunder from past and present, yeah?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Anonymous
  129. Nawi says:

    “It doesn’t explain why Argentina was so rich during the first half of XXth century or went down so much ? Is it because of bad populism ? Is it because Spanish/Italian mixed with mestizas from Paraguay and Amazonia ?”
    I loooooove when people start talking about things they have no clue. Mestizas from Amazonia ? Did you have a look at a map ??????? (do you know where is Argentina ?)Argentina has not even 1 cm of land in Amazonia. Mestizas from Paraguay ? Argentina is almost 90 – 95 % white (Argentina is much more white, than lets say, France). Italians, Germans,French, Irish, Arabs, Russians immigrants to Argentina did not mix with the indigenous populations (and anyway, there were never too much “Indians” in Argentina, and many of those few were exterminated around 1870 – 1890). The Spaniards mixed with the locals but that was during colonial times because the Spaniards usually never brought their own women with them (the British on the other hand used to bring their own women with them and never mixed with a few exceptions)
    Bad populism ??? Argentina started to fall behind when your friends from the USA started helping the Argentinian Army get to power. Duroches says that Argentina did not develop industry ? Argentina still produces trains, cars, tanks, planes, ships, nuclear plants, satellites. What happened then ? Well, when the Army got in power, they started asking for loans from your friends (here again your friends and Durocher friends), particularly your friends banks…et voila !!!! Here you have the debts, the defaults and the crisis.


    By the way, I am Argentinian.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Mikel
  130. @Talha

    Agree 100%. Intelligence is something people doing math or IT use, the ability to think logically (that’s probably what the IQ test is measuring). Wisdom is way above that, so that computers might appear intelligent, but they are not wise. As a rule, politicians are neither intelligent, nor wise.

  131. guitarzan says:

    How much to actually publish a comment?

  132. Mackie says:

    The author draws conclusions based on DECLARED data which does not accurately reflect economic activity. A higher GDP simply reflects the citizens compliance in declaring their income. That’s it! It’s a reflection of trust in the government and nothing to do with software/ hardware of the citizens of that country. For example, in Southern Italy, people are much more willing to forget about issuing an invoice. In the case of Serbia, I have heard the “grey economy ” is estimated to be almost equal to the declared one. It is not possible to make general statements regarding their ability to produce wealth.

    The non-compliance of income declaration is of course much easier in service -based and rural / agricultural societies. Heck, even the famous french cheese “reblochon” was a tax evasion vehicle. (The farmers paid tax on what tbey produced, but in fact they re-produced a batch of cheese which went undeclared.

    Does the author know that UK government is adding an entirely fictious number to their GDP to account for their “grey economy”? So how can one compare the UK GDP number to that of another state that does not account for this?

  133. Mike Tre [AKA "MikeatMikedotMike"] says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    Obwan is a trolling negro with a massive inferiority complex. He thinks his comments here do something other than confirm stereotypes regarding blacks in general.

    It’s nice that you like to engage your critics in the comments, but I suggest you ignore the obvious trolls. Thanks for the article.

  134. Mike Tre [AKA "MikeatMikedotMike"] says:

    “As I’ve said before: if the West ever took its foot off Africa’s throat, it would be a powerhouse within 50 years. ”

    I’ll bet you a freshly baked dirt cookie that you’re wrong.

    When Western subsidy of the African continent comes to a sudden end, because of either economic collapse or the messianic return of common sense, the world is going to see a degree of starvation and disease related death like it has never seen before.

  135. anonymous[294] • Disclaimer says:

    As for why rich countries are rich, IQ is certainly big part of it, but other cultural traits matter as well – integrity, self-reliance, upward mobility, industriousness.

    You forgot to add the most important characteristics; Greed, Psychopathy, and Self-worship (literally too), which are apparently the side effects of possessing “very high” IQ.

    This may have earned your kind, “richness,” -the universe conspired to get you what you so wished, and that kind of nonsense- but the price of it all… Soul-rot.

    You probably think it is fully worth it… that is, until you are shown what has been promised.

  136. @PeterMX

    True enough. One correction, though: Germany is still occupied. More than 70 years after the war Germans still have foreign troops stationed on their land. The country that stopped its occupation of Germany was Russia (in 1991), but not the US. Sensible Germans should keep this in mind.

  137. @anonymous

    Payment for all the rape and plunder from past and present, yeah?

    Then what is Germany paying for? As the joke has it, two Germans meet in Frankfurt:
    – Salaam alaikum!
    – Alaikum as-Salaam!

    • Replies: @Talha
  138. @Anonymous

    It is very seldom since I came across this site, that I have felt so irritated by the article and most of the correspondence about it. What the writer and most of the respondents say, ignores the effect of the imperial powers’ robbery of the countries that are presumed by the author and most of the correspondents, to be stupid and the baleful influence of policies of “Austerity”, Bankster swindling (Particularly in the cases of e.g. Portugal, Ireland and Greece) and the destruction wrought in South America by the CIA, the WB, the IMF and their helpers.
    That the fall of China into the position of “Sick Man of Asia” was clearly not genetic and its rise out of that position was equally not genetic in origin is also ignored. No account seems to be given, to the way the imperial powers have left utterly corrupt governments in place when they “leave”(E.g. Idi Amin Dada!) and destroy promising governments. (E.g. the murder of Patrice Lumumba.)
    Nor is any account given to the way the CIA coddles/ed the Mafia in Italy, in discussion of that country.

    That IQ may have some effect on the living standard in a country seems to me to be at least probable, but that it is a proven fact or a one-one relationship (As many here seem to imply or assume) seems to me to be “Pushing it”!

    The USA has not descended since 1970 into the sort of mess described by Lin Dinh as a result of the allegedly inferior genes of its immigrants, but as a result of bank- and greed-driven policies of de-industrialization. Likewise, the UK is not in the sort of mess it is for genetic reasons but as a result of its “special Relationship”, its disastrous social system and the BoE.

    As to SS Africa, for a thousand years before the Europeans appeared there, there was up the East coast, a string of thriving City states which had no serious wars between them throughout that time.

    • Replies: @By-tor
  139. Talha says:

    Then what is Germany paying for?

    Forgetting God, which resulted in forgetting themselves…?
    “And be not like those who forgot God, so He made them forget themselves. Those are the transgressors.” (59:19)

    A people who don’t know who they are will be replaced by those who do.

    And perhaps selecting politicians that can’t be bothered to have babies and thus have no real vision or stake in the future in case of a different German people.

    The joke is a good one.


    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
    , @Rogue
  140. Beckow says:

    I said ‘most of it is due to real estate’, of course there are other factors. I am not familiar with UK politics, so you are probably right about Thatcher’s right to buy impact.

    What I know is that in post-communist east-central Europe this is a key dynamic in how people vote. The ones lucky enough who received (privatised mostly for free if they lived there) apartments in large metropolitan areas, or close to the German-Austrian borders, or in tourist areas, did much better than the rest of the provinces – and they consistently vote to preserve those gains. Often 10-1 better, the differences are huge.

    Ideology and politics often combine with self-interest and greed, and it is hard to tell where one begins and the other ends. If you look at electoral maps you can see the pattern. When you talk to people they will not always admit to it. Why should they? they prefer to think of themselves as ‘successful and smart’ instead of just lucky (being at the right place at the right time). Behind most NGO cafe-sipping morons are parents who benefitted from the post-communist largesse. Often because they were commies working in the capitol cities.

  141. @anonymous

    ‘According to HG Wells in 1920, there is a difference in the racial stock of north v. south. So the disparities in wealth between the regions of England is also likely due to race and genetics.’

    I think it’s possible to get carried away with the genetic argument.

    • Replies: @Talha
  142. Anon 2 says:
    @Polish Perspective

    I have a Ph.D. but not in economics so I often find your detail-rich economics-laden comments rather interesting.

    In general, I think Central Europe has become so interesting it deserves its own blog on Unz. If you include Visegrad 4 and the Baltics, that’s about 70 million people. With Romania thrown in as an honorary member (since due to their language, alphabet, and closeness to France, they probably don’t think of themselves as Eastern European despite their Eastern Orthodoxy), that’s 90 million people – not a trivial number. Central Europe is also rapidly integrating in terms of transportation, e.g., through Via Baltica, Rail Baltica, and the Baltic-Adriatic Corridor, and that’just one of many interesting developments, worth writing about.

  143. I would have formulated my commentary above differently if I wrote it a second time. It seems right that there isn’t a convergence. Culture may have played a role in that. But maybe also geography and other factors. I just don’t think that genetic explanations are very fruitful and that they can lead anywhere. There are interesting authors who argue wiht good arguments that the whole question of IQ is a false question like for instance the English geograph Danny Dorling (or Daniel Dorling). We have to consider that we Europeans used our initial economic superiority as a source of power and not always acted positively towards other countries. I believe that we have to find ways of dealing with other continents that is positive for both sides. Some people know already that our economic and political relations with Africa aren’t sustainable because they know the facts that I mentioned above and they speak of changing that. I’m not sure they will succeed. Some where I saw an article (but failed to read it) that said that conflicts are preventing us to solve ecological problems, above all global warming which is the most pressing problem in our times. So, I think we have to change our perspectives. The book by Jason Hickel is a fantastic contribution for that. Danny Dorling says abot it: “Myth-busting at its best”. Ha-Joon Chang says: “Iconoclastic”.

  144. Druid says:

    Yes o-jag, you’re such a genius, we should all just bow down!!!!

  145. Druid says:

    911 was a zio-Mossad job.
    There were 4000 Jews working in the Twin Towers before 9-11. Only 4 Israelis died. Why were all the New York Jews not there and therefore killed. I always wondered and was suspicious. Turns out a memo was sent to Jews to stay away from the towers. Al Frankenstein, Minnesota senator, Jew, had an office in the towers, and gave a speech in which he says, “I’ll be honest, I got that message”.
    Need I say more. Along with all the others evidence, the dancing IsrElis, the Israelis waiting with cameras, telling cops they were waiting to film the event, etc., etc., is there any question who did it!!!!

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @apollonian
    , @anarchyst
  146. hgw says:

    Why dont you leave your national betters, like Anatoly Karlin, to write comments in defence of Russia and to insult other countries? They can do it much better than you ever could.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  147. Another East Asia lover spouting platitudes… it must be the fried rice for surely it can’t be the slanty-eyed, me-love-you-long-time if you opened up your huge American market so that we can steal your technology and make shitty goods to dump, in order to have gazillion dollars in trade surpluses while you get poorer and poorer. No thank you! We don’t need your kind of Frenchmen, we’ll take Alex de Toqueville any day instead!

  148. @Talha

    Methinks, he is talking about the Germans paying through the nose to Jews and Israel. But someone posted a link from Al Jazeera about 45 (?) trillion dollars being taken out of the Subcontinent by the British… simply amazing! Of course, they nothing left to show for it, save the Big Ben. Perhaps, you being a Pakistanian, can file a clain for reparation, just like the Yids do from Germany or the niggahs want from Uncle Sam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  149. @Polish Perspective

    Poles are a good people but gullible at best. How did they end supporting half of all Jews prior to the WWII and will end up paying through their nose, again, to the tax farmers now that we’re taking interest in their “welfare!”

    • Agree: utu
    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @anarchyst
  150. Anon 2 says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Re: “Backward Russia”

    I have no animus toward Russia so I never said that.
    What I meant was that Central Europe is doing extremely well considering
    that, unlike Russia, it has no significant deposits of oil or natural gas

  151. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    When all you have is a hammer…


  152. Hank Yobo says:
    @gone,gone beyond

    France has stolen most of its wealth from Haiti and Africa, and formerly from South East Asia.

    France was the Continental powerhouse from at least the mid-seventeenth century until 1870 or 1914. Haiti, Africa, and SEA had little or nothing to do with it.

    • Replies: @utu
  153. Rogue says:

    A people who don’t know who they are will be replaced by those who do.

    Probably more to it than that, but in essence, I would agree.

    Despite the West having greater military power than anywhere else on earth, it seems that they have no power at all to prevent invaders from swanning into their lands.

    Has there ever been a mass suicide cult like the modern West?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @peterAUS
  154. By-tor says:

    The wall was to keep west Germans from flooding into the east with Deutchmarks debasing the Reichsmarks currency- which was the agreed upon currency of post-war GER necessary for rebuilding the country and for the civilian population. The US-UK did this without consulting the USSR to undermine the economies in the east and renew a war footing against Soviet Russia.

    • LOL: German_reader
    • Replies: @Anon
  155. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Methinks, he is talking about the Germans paying through the nose to Jews and Israel.

    Yeah, they need to grow a backbone and state it clearly; once the last confirmed Nazi in Germany is dead, the gravy train ends.

    a link from Al Jazeera

    I’m always skeptical of enormous numbers like 45 trillion (even adjusted for the time period). However, that researcher has definitely uncovered a massive scam at the heart of the British Raj and how they cooked their books. That is not surprising at all, especially when you throw the banking institutions into the mix.

    Perhaps, you being a Pakistanian, can file a clain for reparation

    Loser whine – winners pick themselves up, brush off the dirt and learn from their mistakes. One’s success should not be hung on the gullibility or guilt-tripping of others – those are what losers do.


    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  156. Anon[327] • Disclaimer says:

    You discredit your own propaganda when you shout wooly stuff like that.

    “4000 Jews”. “Only 4 Israelis died”. Can’t you even pose the questions to yourself “How many Israelis worked in the Twin Towers?” and “How many Jews were killed?”.

    FWIW, if you actually knew many Jews you would know that there would be reliable whistleblowing from many who were outraged if there was warning of the attacks which got through to Jews generally who worked in the Twin Towers.

    • Replies: @Wally
  157. By-tor says:

    Where is this source of thriving Negro city-states in Sub-Saharan Africa up the east coast, and who were they? Did they build two-story structures and possess a written language? Because, if they did not, they are merely more examples of intellectually-handicapped subsistence societies.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  158. Miggle says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Almost everyone commenting here sounds learned on the subject and widely traveled. I am neither and hardly dare to comment in such company. But like you I was struck by the author’s per-capita GDP opinion and it struck me as total bunkum. The USA has the highest per-capita GDP, the highest per-capita number of homeless, the highest per-capita number of incarcerated prisoners, the highest per-capita number of preventable deaths because medical assistance and medications are financially beyond the reach of the highest number of the population per capita, and all university graduates are in debt for life.

    Cuba is a tiny country under decades of US sanctions which has free health care, free education, a low number of incarcerated prisoners per capita, but the author turns up his nose at socialist governments.

    Add to that that the USA sends military forces all over the world where they are not needed and Cuba sends medical practitioners all over the world where they are needed.

    Socialism is shit, right, Bill?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  159. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:

    I know that there are those who say that Harry Dexter White as Communist traitor in the US Treasury arranged for US money to finance a lot of the Soviet activity in East Germany immediately after the end of WW2 and I know that the wall wasn’t built till August 1961 so would you be good enough to dispel the impression that you are spouting utter garbage by spelling out in factual detail what you are trying to convey.

    • Replies: @By-tor
  160. Talha says:

    they have no power at all to prevent invaders from swanning into their lands.

    Bro – they are inviting them and virtue signalling about it:
    “Ms al-Qunun Tweeted pictures during her flight in First Class drinking claret, chardonnay and eating caviar.

    Ms al-Qunun shared a snap on social media of her in first class enjoying a glass of wine as she jetted off to Canada as a refugee

    Her case was expedited after it garnered an unprecedented amount of media attention.”

    Get ready for the can they just opened up. That’s right, the West is going to be up to its noses in our apostate thots and females that want to escape the patriarchy and be provided a free first-class ticket out of it. No turning back…

    LOL – that video of the topless women protesting in support. Look at the bright side, maybe she’ll do porn or something and the Canadian government will have another thing to virtue-signal about.


  161. @guitarzan

    What do you mean by “honest gold standard”? One that means you are hands off and accept whatever the market price of gold does to your national currency? Or was Gaddafi imagining he could persuade the US to fix the price of gold again? Or are you just blowing mind farts?

  162. peterAUS says:

    A people who don’t know who they are will be replaced by those who do.

    Probably more to it than that, but in essence, I would agree.

    Despite the West having greater military power than anywhere else on earth, it seems that they have no power at all to prevent invaders from swanning into their lands.

    Has there ever been a mass suicide cult like the modern West?

    If I may…..

    Disclaimer: I am aware that a common person in the West appears incapable of learning by other’s examples, but, there are some, perhaps, even applicable.

    Firstly, there is no “mass suicide”. There is replacement of native population. Western elites know exactly what they are doing. Proles are starting to get it. What they are going to do about it, if anything, remains to be seen.
    Back to examples:

    Kosovo region in Serbia/Yugoslavia was being consciously populated by Shiptars (or Kosovars…or Albanians…pick any) from 1945 to 1999. A bit longer, looks like, then the current “migration” thing going on in Western Europe.
    Bear with me……if you can.

    So, what…took around 54 years to make that region/province of overwhelming Shiptar majority with small Serb minority. Terrible state of affairs, we’d agree. If you were a Serb that is. BTW, Western Europe is still LONG way from that. Anyway…

    It took….what….ONE month of, how to put it….”organized Serbian effort” to drastically change that dynamics into Serb favor.
    The only way to reverse it back in Shipar/Kosovar/Albanian/whatever favor was heavy NATO intervention.

    Just saying……..

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  163. apollonian says: • Website

    Jews: As Far As Eye Could See

    Ck Chris Bollyn’s work at, aside fm his books, “Solving 9/11.” Bollyn pt.s-out the MASSIVE inductive evidence, the Jews ALL OVER the case, fm the non-investigation by DOJ (Justice), headed by Chertoff, to the litigation, headed by Jews–who were also conflicted for interest, including the cover-up by the Jews-media, including the massive dis-info that went along, including on the I-net.

    EVERYTHING about 9/11 was covered at all pt.s by the Jews–and I mean Jews, too–they didn’t leave it to sympathetic gentiles. The victims families were steadily ground-down and refused trials and then paid-off, this operation headed by Jews too.

    Cui Bono?–it served Jew interests, no one else, not only Israeli-Zionist (on the “neo-con” “right”), but also the “leftist” Jew world order (JWO), world-gov. side too–a total win-win for the Jew factions.

    To be sure, the utterly corrupt, thoroughly masochistic USA was begging to be struck, things perfectly set-up by the “Judeo-Christian” (JC–see and for expo) hereticalists and collaborators, both Catholic and Protestant, colluding w. Jews.

    Thus USA was and is exposed as thoroughly domesticated cattle, willing to be murdered and consumed by their keepers, the Jews–USA the perfect slaves, glorying in their slavery and servitude–but the coming economic recession/depression and currency collapse will be horrific, the Jews not allowing their slaves to recovering and striking-back at them.

    So HOW now can we see the Jews?–they’re like most cruel pimp towards their whore(s), Jews giving beating after beating, and the whore thanking their masters for it all–and it’s only the beginning for the execution that’s bound to come, setting-up now for a civil-war, insuring no retribution will be directed towards Israel and little towards Jews themselves still in USA.

  164. India is a shithole but it didn’t have mean Mao to do what was necessary to straighten out the peasants…. after the half-naked fakir (Gandhi) had been assassinated, Fabian socialist Nehru took over and that added to the burden for two decades (during that period both China and India were following the Soviet model in developing all heavy industries) to be followed up by his daughter for another two useless decades but after China decided to go the way of the West, India reluctantly followed but it may have been the case too littl too late because the Chinese have left them in the dust. Oh, well… schitt happens!

  165. Neechee says:

    Never use ebonics in your writing, ever, not even as a joke. You scum, you human pestilence.

    • Replies: @Anon
  166. utu says:
    @Hank Yobo

    France was the Continental powerhouse from at least the mid-seventeenth century until 1870 or 1914.

    France was a spent force after the Seven Years War. The adventure with Napoleon was no longer on the behalf of France and the French but on the behalf of the world revolution. Once Napoleon carried the flag of the world revolution across the Europe that included the emancipation of Jews the plug was pulled off from him.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    , @Ron Unz
  167. @Talha

    The last para shows good attitude towards being the kind that believes in pulling oneself up by their bootstraps… good for you!

    • Replies: @Talha
  168. east germany is full of eastern europeans. that’s part of what’s going on there. yeah, it matters that the area was under communist control for 40 years, but that’s not the only thing that’s going on.

    germany is only 80% germans, and falling. if you take the test performances of just the german 18 year olds in germany, it translates to intelligence test performance of about 102 to 103. but when you add in all the school students in germany, this brings the aggregate performance down to 99 or so. so they’re already having a -4 point effect on the school age population. and that effect is slowly growing.

    it’s really no different than areas in the US where most of the people are not WASPS and whoa, surprise, those areas aren’t as productive, organized, low crime, high human capital zones as the rest of the country. los angeles is only 10 years away from some kind of major socioeconomic collapse, as the public schools are over 75% mexican. no, not some mad max scenario, but it’s on the precipice of this really big step downwards. this means by 2030 the majority of the working age people there will be third worlders, a large number of high school dropouts and IQ 88 borderline useless fat slobs, no tax base, and sky high prices due to overcrowding.

    ‘economically distressed’ is one term they use in the US. ‘magic dirt’ is the term steve sailer coined, and is well phrased for HBD discussions.

  169. @Arthur Pierce

    All I can say is the writer is ignoring the role colonization, fractional banking play into all of this. Take a prime Mayer Rothschild, and a prime George Washington, drop them in the middle of the jungle in the Congo, and you can return in a month to pick up their bodies. There are IQ differences, but man develops along cultural lines, as needed.

  170. Talha says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    Yes…and (crucially) not forgetting to put one’s reliance on God:
    “…Whoever puts his trust in Allah — He will suffice him…” (65:3)

    But yes, one should learn not to rely on the handouts of others. A humble life, lived with dignity is preferable to begging and blaming others. Refer to Mr. Dinh’s recent article for an example.


  171. Catiline says:

    The European Union has a number of policies which are supposed to foster convergence between member countries: the EU budget redistributes billions of euros of agricultural, regional development, and other funds from wealthier rich countries to poorer ones…

    Hey Willie, the EU budget is ca. 1% of GDP. Agricultural subsidies make up ca. 50% of that budget. France is a major recipient of agricultural funds.

    P.S. Italy is the third largest contributor to the EU budget.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  172. Catiline says:

    It is very striking how consistent is the decline in economic performance as one goes from Germanic Europe towards southern and southeastern Europe: the Netherlands better than Belgium, Germany better than France and Hungary, France better than Italy and Spain, Lombardy better than the Mezzogiorno, Catalonia and the Basque Country better than Andalusia, Hungary better than Romania, Morocco better than Sub-Saharan Africa, Turkey better than Syria and Iraq . . . Or heck just go from Slovenia to FYROM in the former Yugoslavia (although, to be fair to the Serbs, I suspect their poverty has more to do with being isolated and bullied by the West over the last two decades).

    BTW, there are ca. 500 EU funded projects in Italy, over half are located in Lombardy.

  173. Cyrano says:

    You are starting to show some promise there. I would only add to your sentence that they are trying to replace the native population – not only native but naive as well. I still think that you are giving to much credit to the western elites – they don’t know what they are doing. They are in an advanced stage of degeneracy.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  174. Hank Yobo says:

    France was a spent force after the Seven Years War.

    The American rebels didn’t think so. And, who then was the major Continental power between 1763 and 1870/1914 if it wasn’t the French? They were still the strongman of Europe, on paper at least, until the end of the Sitzkreig in 1940.

    • Replies: @utu
  175. Rdm says:

    This is the most stupidest comment ever written cloaked in a form of British good deeds.

    Why on earth those crooked teeth always take credits for whatever good things happened in the land they once colonized? But then shit on people where they don’t see the development?

    Sri Lanka, Fiji, Africa –> People

    Singapore, Hong Kong –> Crooked teeth’s good deeds

    Singapore is as resourceful that you can extract shit. Hong Kong is also naturally resourceful that you can extract oil. Both places are strategically located in sea trading routes. Whether to achieve the maximum potential is up to local residents. If British didn’t colonize Hong Kong and Singapore, they will develop eventually. Look at Shenzhen (Tech city). Did crooked teeth need to come and colonize so that those half brains can build Huawei, OPPO, OnePlus, ZTE?

    If we look at strategic locations, Yangon (Myanmar) can easily be the largest trading port for anyone to call shot. Where’re they at? Look at Sri Lanka?

    Just get down from your high horse mumbo jumbo extractive theory.

  176. Ron Unz says:

    France was a spent force after the Seven Years War. The adventure with Napoleon was no longer on the behalf of France and the French but on the behalf of the world revolution. Once Napoleon carried the flag of the world revolution across the Europe that included the emancipation of Jews the plug was pulled off from him.

    So France during the Age of Napoleon was “a spent force”?!

    I’m very glad to see that our commenters do their best to maintain the motto of this webzine as “A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives”…

    • Replies: @Talha
  177. SafeNow says:

    As a long-time Californian, I have personally observed the “reverse convergence” that Disclaimer speculated about. I have commented upon the desirable personal traits, and the institutions, that have unraveled here, as we become more like the migrant culture. This relaxing of positive traits will become nationally pervasive and will be contageous. One commenter on this thread speculated that having a fraction of very bright people probably will not rescue the general population from this, and such has been my California observation. However, I think substantially more migration of smart, fastidious, polite, fairminded people from China might help. I wish this essay on upward convergence had also dealt with and explained to me about downward convergence.

  178. Talha says:
    @Ron Unz

    Yeah, the Ottomans would’ve certainly disagreed; France was kicking their butts all across North Africa and the Levant. It was really the Brits that got them out of that pickle by trashing Napoleon’s fleet in the Nile Delta.


    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  179. Alfred says:

    Italy’s consumption of oil has been dropping for decades. That is a good proxy for the economy IMHO.

  180. @hgw

    I am sorry! I will be more sensitive.

  181. Anonymous [AKA "Morgont"] says:

    “Fine print: all of these ideas are shameless pilfered from Anatoly Karlin.”

    Thanks for that. I was going to write more and make barely concealed digs about how it’s absolutely nothing new and it’s more of the same from the school of HBD autism that lionize northern europeans and east asians as the apex of humanity, also pioneered by the likes of Jayman (an obnoxious tri-racial Jamaican with undiagnoised autism) and HBD Chick (an aspie nerdette who types like a 13 year old girl on 2003 Livejournal) because of “muh hajnal line” and “high trust high altruism northern hunter gatherer societies”, that see the ultimate measures of societal success as clean and orderly streets, low rates of street crime and good test scores (which functions as a close to two decade long back and forth and cultish desire to prove IQ figures vomited out by Richard Lynn, who is definitely NOT a charlatan like his cohort Rushton). Pay no heed to China’s otherwordly levels of corruption and social anomie and history replete with devastating civil conflicts, Japan’s nightmarish actions during WWII and the social isolation that plague it today the Nordic proclivity for importing people from the worst places on Earth (replicated from Minnesota to Sweden), the British Empire’s history of atrocities and actions that plague us today and their penchant for allowing Jews to infest their societies for close to 2 centuries now,

    But… look what Machiavelli said about those wops in the south!

    To your credit you don’t go as far as the people do, but beyond that, it’s nothing new. An overview of theories cooked up by the autistic and mentally ill that comes just short of endorsement.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  182. peterAUS says:

    You are starting to show some promise there.

    Oh no ……That sounds just… terrible. Has to be fixed. Here it goes, along the same topic:

    West Europeans bitching a bit, and moaning much more, about their displacement by “migration” from the shitholes of this world. Actually, to refine that: “deplorables” class of Western Europe moaning and, apparently, despairing.
    Those from the same countries which compose the bulk of NATO forces (save Americans, that is). Armed to the teeth with the most sophisticated hardware.
    BTW, those “invading hordes” unarmed.

    What to do…what to do? Nothing, apparently.

    So, let’s take a look at another example from the same region and around the same time as the previous:
    Serb minority in Croatia. They settled, more or less, around 16th century (I think) there, fleeing from Turkish/Muslim paradise. Then, due to certain disputes with Croats carved their own entity there in early 90’s. Were, in fact, rather well armed, and with proper hardware (tanks, howitzers, MLRSs…all that).
    Now, the crux of the matter.
    Croats expelled them, around 150 000 (more or less) in forty eight hours, from that territory in August ’95. All….of….them. Well, save several hundreds of elderly folks, but that’s another (rather grim) story.

    So, taking into account the resources available it’s not unreasonable to calculate that a, say, certain organized effort by any West European state could solve the immigrant issue in around 48 hours.
    I mean, if Croats could’ve done that I just don’t see the problem.

    Well..hehe…except the glaringly most obvious one.

    Sorry, guys. Back to despair.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  183. “If everybody was held back by colonialism…..why was Africa South of the Sahara held back more?”

    Perhaps a clue might lie in the fact that the “gentle, fair” nation of France still extorts colonial era taxes from its ex colonies there and is quick to intervene if any genuinely independent government even threatens to take power, inciting a coup or helping to crush one?

    France is a despicable fascist, racist ratbag of a nation, worse than Britain, and I say that as an Indian who hates Britain.

  184. utu says:
    @Hank Yobo

    The Seven Year War ended France’s chance to become a world empire that could challenge the British Empire. France lost America and India. They were defeated even in Africa. France was broke. The engagement in American Revolution by time of which France rebuilt its fleet did not earn France anything and it was very expensive. And then came the French Revolution and Napoleon who fought wars here and there without apparent sense and reason (*) and eventually lost at cost of over 1 million of French lives. France never recovered demographically form it with respect to Austria, Prussia, German states and even England. After the Congress in Vienna in 1815 they were successful only in colonial wars and in the Crimean War which they fought on the side of England. Anywhere they wanted to project power like in Mexico they lost. And then came the 1870 humiliating defeat by Prussia.

    (*) Why did he go to Africa? Why was he obsessed with emancipating Jews anywhere he went? This seems to be his only lasting impact and the Napoleonic code, revolutionary ideals “Liberté, égalité, fraternité” that certainly changed Europe but he was a disaster for France.

    General Headquarters, Jerusalem 1st Floreal, April 20th, 1799,
    in the year of 7 of the French Republic


  185. Anon 2 says:

    Of course, you’re comparing Czechia and Slovakia, regions that suffered very little damage during WW II, with Poland which, on a per capita basis, underwent even more destruction than Russia. However, I still believe the total output of the roughly 9-10-million Katowice-Krakow duopolis is not far from that of the entire Czech Republic, the figures of course depend on the definition of what is included in that agglomeration. Another duopolis, Warsaw-Lodz, being created in central Poland will be united by the huge airport to be built halfway between the two cities, and the infrastructure that’s already expanding due to its being close to the intersection of the A2 and A1 European expressways. The planned airport is designed to be one of the largest in Europe.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  186. Mikel says:

    Argentina is almost 90 – 95 % white

    At least you have not chosen to repeat the oft-mentioned figure by many of your compatriots of 99%. But no, you are still wrong. We live in an age of great advances in the scientific field of genetics and what you say is unsustainable. For example, this genetic study finds that the genetic composition of the province of Mendoza (not the one with the largest Indian admixture in Argentina by any means) is 50% European, 40% Amerindian and 10% African:

    As a matter of fact, I have a lot of sympathy for Argentina and Argentinians in general, among whom I have met the nicest people in Latin America, but I am not sure what the purpose is of you guys constantly distorting the racial statistics of your country (and possibly believing that distortion yourselves).

    My fondness of Argentina has led me to travel throughout it extensively, from Puerto Iguazu in the North (where the Amerindian component is visibly larger than in Mendoza) to Ushuaia in the far South. The influence of the large component of European immigrants is noticeable everywhere but so is the inaccuracy of the genetic estimate you have provided.

    • Replies: @Nawi
    , @Ryan Heineman
  187. Cyrano says:

    Let me tell you something, my Croat brother – I know that I am going to offend you with this – but who gives a s**t. You are mixing apples and oranges – as usual. The people who brought the misery of multiculturalism to the west are their elites, the people who are suffering from it – are the ordinary people – the deplorables.

    So the people who can do something about it, are not the same people who are bitching about it. You get it? Cultural Marxism was invented in order to save capitalism. The degenerates who invented the Cultural Marxism would rather see their nations destroyed, than see capitalism destroyed.

    It was always about money. Capitalism is simple to figure out. It’s rotten, because of the people who run it.

    Before you get too proud of the military prowess of the sh**hole Croatia, the Serbs could have taken care of you in a matter of weeks. In those days everything was against them. You got lucky.

    Let me tell you another story – very dear to my heart. Ivo Andric – one of the smartest Croats that ever lived – he won a Nobel prize for his writing. He converted to “Serbianism”.

    How cool is that? People usually convert from religion to religion. This guy – Ivo Andric – converted from nation to Nation. From being born a Croat – he declared himself a Serb. You see, he was so smart, he realized that the Serbs are better people. Chew on that for a while, my Croat brother.

  188. Anon[157] • Disclaimer says:

    Both Daron Acemoglu and Guillaume Durocher are failing to see the big picture and missing the point. There are more than one kind of Convergence, and it is likely to happen due to globalist pressures. And these Convergences will involve mass migration and mass miscegenation. (Or, if genetic engineering becomes a thing in the near-future, various peoples around the world could end up with ‘improved’ traits in areas of intelligence, temperament, strength, height, and health.)

    Old models fail in the globalizing world because all borders have been rendered porous by mass communication & social networking, the predominance of the Zionist-US empire that can intervene or even invade any part of the world — the USSR limited US expansionism during the Cold War and vice versa — , easy mass migration of peoples by planes, boats, and even on foot(as national borders, especially in the Africa-Middle-East-Europe-America) are either undefended or have been breached beyond repair. Globalism is replacing settlement-mentality with neo-nomadism of both the ‘creative’ classes and the ‘desperate’ masses. It’s no wonder that the upper elites of ‘creatives’ identify somewhat with the lower masses of ‘desperates’. Part of the reason is, of course, the elites attend Politically Correct institutions where ‘diversity’ and ‘inclusion’ are holy mantras, but it also has to do with the fact that the elites live in their own well-protective bubble of gentrified downtown areas or college communities. For them, the masses of Third World peons have either symbolic value(for ‘woke’ virtue among their apologists) without having to rub shoulders with them OR economic value as cheap labor to mow lawns and change diapers, especially as elite women are too busy pursuing their careers than rearing their children. So, upper class to upper middle class have much to gain from supporting mass Third World migration. They pat themselves on the back as compassionate ‘progressives’ while knowing full well that their own social and economic spheres will not be negatively impacted by the newcomers. If anything, the browns from south of the border may be socially useful in serving as a buffer between elite whites/Jews/Asians and urban blacks with criminal tendencies. Why not make the browns take the lumps from the blacks or use the brown mass to push out the blacks so that the communities may later be gentrified more peaceably? In contrast, the Middle Class and Working Class haven’t much to gain from globalism and mass-migration-invasion. They are replaced by cheaper H1V holders from India, or their wages are undercut by supply of new labor eager to work for a pittance, that is if the jobs haven’t already been shipped to China or some other place.

    As Karl Marx said, economics goes a long way to determine consciousness, and the erosion of national economies weakened the elite’s sense of connection to their own national folk. In the past, US companies had to hire US workers first and foremost. So, there developed a national bond among owners, managers, and workers. But with globalism, the owners could shop for cheap labor around the world, and when China opened to World Trade, the owner class saw a golden opportunity. All those yellow peons had decent work ethic and were willing to work for fraction of the wages(and without the benefits) of American workers. So, the owner class went on a shopping spree for global labor. As the owner class was no longer economically bound to American workers, it became increasingly cut off from them emotionally as well. It was cheaper for the members of the owner class to champion the Global Diversity because it meant they could gain access to ever cheaper pools of labor. It’s like a man’s connection to his wife and kids grows weaker IF he could ‘shop around’ for new women to hump and have fun with. There used to be an economic and emotional marriage between the owner class and national folk in the West. But globalism privileged the upper-owner class in letting them sever their ties to the national masses — let the white working class wallow in junk culture and died of opioids, and good riddance — , and they became enamored of the cheaper and more pliable work force around the world. So, the underlying motives of globalism are the most naked kind of capitalism and profiteering ever concocted by man.


    But, because it wouldn’t be good publicity for the globo-owner class to bluntly admit this ugly truth — “we dumped the national folks in favor of cheaper peons around the world” — , they’ve moralized their agenda with slogans about ‘diversity’ and ‘inclusion’. Thus, we are to believe that the super-rich oligarchic class is pushing mass-migration and ‘free trade’ not because it’s insatiably greedy but because it has a bleeding heart for all those teeming masses around the world. Of course, upper classes don’t need to worry about the profound social transformations of entire nations as the result of Third World mass-invasions because they themselves live in mansions, haute gentrified areas, or elite college towns. The real brunt of the mass transformation will fall on everyone from Middle Class to Working Class to native Lower Class.

    Now, one would think the masses would have the moral upper-hand against the greedy owner class that no longer cares about them. After all, the owner class is only making things nicer for itself by sacrificing the National Working Folk in favor of cheaper and more docile labor(or even oppressed and exploited labor in the Third World with hardly any recourse to legal protections). But because of the Deep State collaboration between Big Capital and Big Think, today’s so-called ‘progressives’ offer up nice-sounding terms and slogans to tip the moral advantage to the owner class. So, you see, the owner class isn’t greedily out for more profits and privilege. Oh no, they are just a bunch of do-gooders who want to ‘welcome’ the World, whereas the National Working Folk are ‘far right’, ‘xenophobic’, ‘racist’, and ‘exclusive’. Never mind that no nation is viable as a people, culture, and history unless it has secure borders, emotional bond between elites and masses, and a sense of cultural & historical distinctness. After all, imagine if Israel had open borders and declared that ANY newcomer will be welcomed as a New Jew. How long would Israel or Jewish culture last under such suicidal barrage? Indeed, how was Palestine wiped off the map to make way for Israel? Because of mass-migration of Jews into Palestine, which eventually led to Jews replacing Palestinians as the main inhabitants of the Holy Land. Of course, Jews were sly and sneaky in this. For awhile, they pretended as though they merely wanted to become New Palestinians. Until the creation of Israel, the Zionists labeled many of their endeavors and businesses as ‘Palestinian’ to give the false impression that they just wanted to be part of Palestine than replace it with a new political template. So, much of Zionist activity had gone under the umbrella of Palestinian-ism. But when Jews began to realize they had the upperhand(not least with the backing of great powers UK, US, and USSR), they made their move to replace Palestinians and turn Palestine into Israel. Given what Jewish mass migration-invasion did to the Palestinians(who are now mowed down by IDF death squads in Gaza and suffer indignities of Apartheid-style colonization in the West Bank, their last remaining territory of any substance), how can any truly conscientious person support mass-migration? The main, indeed the ONLY REAL, reason why Palestinians lost their homeland and were reduced to the sorry state of penury today is due to mass-migration-invasion. Demography Is Destiny or DID, and Jews sure proved it in Palestine, now Israel. Given the obvious historical injustice, why do the supposedly humanitarian US and EU support Israel and Zionists against Palestinians(and other Muslim and/or Arab ‘enemies’ of Israel)? Because Jewish Supremacist elites control America that, in turn, controls the EU.
    Another example of why Open Borders or Broken Borders pose a huge problem is Syria. If Syria had been able to protect its borders, it could have avoided the prolonged war that killed 500,000 people, maimed millions more, and displaced millions who, in turn, barged into other nations. Why did Syria fall apart? Because the nations around Syria, especially Saudi-Arabia-Israel-Turkey, all conspired with Neocons and Liberal Zionists in the US to bring down the secular modernizing regime of Assad. So, they violated Syrian borders and injected toxic Jihadi elements to wreak havoc in town after town. The wonders that befall a nation when it loses control of its borders! It’s no wonder Zionist-Globalists love Open Borders for goy nations, all the while doggedly guarding borders for Jews in Israel. Israel is stable, secure, and peaceful because it gets to control who gets in and why. In contrast, Syria lost that power, and it got invaded by terrorists and mercenaries from all sides. The US, which had entered the Middle East on grounds of fighting the War on Terror against Alqaeda, made common cause with rebranded Alqaeda going by the name of Al Nusra and promoted by the Deep State and Media as ‘moderate rebels’.

    We can easily note the advantage of border control versus the folly of no border control in the relation between Israeli Jews and West Bank Palestinians. There are walls and tight border security to prevent Palestinians in West Bank from freely entering Israel. So, Jewish Israel is safe and secure from potential Arab invasion from West Bank. But Palestinians in West Bank have no border security against Jews in Israel. The Jewish-built walls are meant to defend Israel from Arabs in West Bank, not to defend West Bank from Jews in Israel(and from around the world). So, Jewish ‘settlers’ — really invaders and colonizers — continue to encroach upon West Bank to carve up EVEN MORE territories for Greater Israel. So, from the Jewish-Palestinian dynamics between Israel and West Bank, which side has the advantage? Jews with border security against Palestinians or Palestinians with no border security against Jews? The answer is obvious.

    Now, why is the rich, advanced, and powerful West for open borders? Why do they forsake border security and choose to be like Palestinians than like Israeli Jews? Why do they want their homelands to become like West Bank(a territory with no border security for its native population that continues to be replaced by Jewish ‘settlers’) than like Israel(a powerful nation with security & stability and pride of identity, culture, and history)? It’s because Jews have taken over the elite institutions of the West and regard the West as one giant West Bank. With their immense wealth, Jews have bought off so many goy politicians to do their bidding. Jews hate the idea of national borders and security among goy nations because it could mean erecting barriers against total Jewish penetration and takeover. Jews love the idea of Israel for Jews but hate the idea of any goy nation putting its own people, culture, and history first because it means less of a chance for guys like George Soros to take over. This is also why Jews push globo-homo stuff all over the world. It is to weaken national identity, especially among the elites. It is also useful in replacing class politics with neo-aristocratism(as homos tend to be vain and narcissistic and drawn to wealth and privilege) in Progressive Circles. Also, if people get to thinking that a man with a wig can be a ‘woman’, it undermines the idea of rooted or real identity altogether. If any man can become a ‘woman’, maybe anyone can become a New European just by setting foot on Europe and learning a few French or German words. Replace Mayday with Gayday.
    But Jews don’t merely buy off corrupt politicians like Chinese elite minority does in Southeast Asia or Asian-Indian minority does in Kenya. Jews gain control of academia & media and spread the new gospel of ‘diversity’ and ‘inclusion’, both of which are just weasel words for New Imperialism. After all, most diversity around the world is the product of imperialism. Latin American Diversity owes to imperialism, ‘genocide’, slavery, and mass immigration-invasion. Just ask the native browns there. The Soviet Union was most diverse when it had imperial dominion over various nationalities. Roman Empire and Ottoman Empire were most diverse at the peak of their powers. For Jews, diversity is useful because, as a minority elite, they fear a united goy national front against them. So, they seek to increase diversity in all goy nations to use divide-and-rule tactics. The reason why British Imperialism over India was far more effective than European & Japanese imperialism in China was because the British as one people ruled over diverse tribes in India, whereas the Chinese as one people were ruled by diverse imperialists. British rule was finally doomed when Gandhi and other inspired leaders found a way to bring masses of tribes in India together as ONE people.

    Jews know that the masses of goyim will wake up to what the Tribe is really up to if it only uses bribery and corruption to buy off goy politicians and the like. So, Jewish Power works very hard to moralize their globo-homo neo-imperialist project. Via mass media(totally controlled by Jews in the US and many parts of the West) and academia — notice how George Soros sets up gender-studies-centric universities all over the world — , Jews seek to moralize and idealize the New Imperialism. So, even though Diversity has always been the product of imperialism, peoples all over the world have been made to chant the mantra of ‘Diversity is our strength’. If so, why doesn’t Israel go about changing its immigration policy so that Israel will become majority non-Jewish? If MORE Diversity is good for all the world, more diversity would be good for Israel too, right? Jewish power also has everyone chanting about ‘inclusion’ when it’s a weasel word for ‘invasion’. After all, look what happened to Palestinians because they were forced to ‘include’ Jewish migration. They ended up being replaced. What happened to American Indians who had no choice but to ‘include’ mass immigration from the Old World? They got ‘genocided’ and pushed into ‘reservations’, losing their sacred homeland forever. Should Tibetans and Uighurs celebrate the fact that they’re forced to ‘include’ the mass-migration-invasion by Han Chinese? I suppose we should remember the British Imperialists as the good guys because they forced 1/3 of the world to ‘include’ them as colonizers and traders. That is if ‘inclusion’ is so great. What happened to Syria because it was forced to ‘include’ every Jihadi armed and supplied by Saudis, Israelis, Turks, and US? It got torn asunder into hell on earth. The Zionist-directed US military still occupies 1/3 of Syria illegally. Or, should we say the US military is making Syria ‘include’ it? Imagine that. Today’s so-called ‘progressives’ not only support mass illegal-immigration of the West but the West’s illegal military-invasion of the Middle East and North Africa. Again, to understand what is really going on and why, we have to notice the Jewish Hand in all this. The fact is Jews use the West to smash any nation hated by Israel in the Middle East. The saying, “Jew cries out in pain as he strikes you” is most apt. Consider that Israel has 300 nukes while Iran has NONE and passed all international inspections with flying colors(while Israel won’t allow any inspection of its nuclear facilities), BUT the Zionist-controlled Western Narrative is the US must do something to protect Israel from nuclear Iran. It can’t get any more surreal than that. Just think. Israel has nukes and won’t allow inspections while Iran has no nukes and allows inspections. But we are reminded over and over that Israel needs to be protected from nuclear Iran. LOL. If you believe that, you might even believe in the Russian Collusion Conspiracy Hoax. (Yet, the very people in media, academia, and government who pushed the biggest conspiracy hoax of all time say that ‘fake news’ should be shut down for obfuscating the truth.) Netanyahu and Bolton, or Master and Dog.

    There is a perverse logic to the Jewish globo-homo strategy of the two-way invasion. Jewish Power urges the US to act as the Lone Superpower around the world. After the implosion of the Soviet Empire, the US too could have decreased its imperial presence around the world. During the Cold War, US empire was at least justifiable as bulwark against the Soviet Empire and vice versa. But with the USSR having given up on empire and revolution, there was no more threat to the so-called Free World. And many Americans were looking forward to scaling down the US role as globo-cop(which was often like globo-gangster). But just around the time the Cold War ended, Jews took over as the New Elites of the US that was made to flex its muscles and shake its fist as the Sole Hegemon. One reason was to bolster Israel as the lone superpower in the Middle East. So, by cooking up one excuse after another and painting every other leader in the Arab/Muslim leader as the New Hitler and every crisis as New Munich, Jewish Power goaded the US into wars in the Middle East and North Africa that turned those nations upside down(while Jews in Israel observed the destruction with amused glee). The New Imperialism said the US has ‘inclusion’ rights in any nation. If the US power wants IN, the nation-in-question better ‘include’ the US military… or else be invaded the most violent shock-and-awe manner. The US could invoke ‘human rights’, ‘WMD’, ‘War on Terror'(even though US was, more often than not, allied with terrorists against secular modern Arab nations), ‘stopping nuclear threat'(even though it was none other than Israel that is armed to the teeth with nukes and even sent nuclear technology to Apartheid South Africa back in the day), ‘saving Kurds’, or any half-baked rationale to invade the Muslim World. And the Muslim World better ‘include’ the US military invasion because even more bombs will be rained down on the if it says NO. (Notice the US, which claims to care so much about the Kurds, never cares for Palestinians or about restoring stolen Golan Heights to Syria.) Jews love the New Imperialism because they control the West and get to use Western Might to destroy any nation they don’t like. Of course, Jews would be opposed to New Imperialism IF Palestinian-Americans were the ruling elites of the US and used American Might to smash Zionists in the name of liberating the tyrannized Palestinian people. It’s all about who-has-the-power. Imagine if US government had tons of Palestinian-American elite operatives that called on economic sanctions on Israel for its nuclear program, mistreatment of Palestinians, warmongering against Lebanon & Syria, and aid to ISIS. Suppose these sanctions did to Israel what sanctions did to Iraq in the 1990s: Result in the deaths of 100,000s of Jewish women and babies. Then, you bet that Jews would oppose the New Imperialism. But they are all for it because THEY get to use it anyway they want. Since Jews totally control the media and academia, they get to decide what is ‘progressive’. Because New Imperialism is good for Jewish Power, the Tribe pushes it as the ‘new progressivism’. And since most goy ‘progressives’ are mental slaves of Jewish Power, they drink the Kool Aid and go along. But then, things have gotten so bad that some conscientious Jews have said ENOUGH and quit the Deep State neo-imperialist media.

    By now, people should wise up to the speciousness of so-called Jewish ‘progressives’ who are not true Leftists or Progressives but merely using ideology as cover for what is a supremacist form of tribalism. For example, it’s so disingenuous when Jews claim to care about Muslim Refugees. Notice that Jews never mention the fact that all those Muslims(along with Arab Christians) became refugees in the first place only because of Wars for Israel in Libya, Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan. There would be no Syrian refugees if that nation hadn’t been torn apart. It was smashed because Jewish-controlled US gave the go-ahead to Turkey and Saudi Arabia to fund and support foreign terrorists there. And Israel gleefully egged on the catastrophe from the sidelines, even aiding ISIS and bombing Syria on and off. Notice that Jews never say they want to prevent people from becoming refugees. That’s because, in order to prevent such tragedy, there must be no more Wars for Israel. But Jews love these Wars for Israel, and their operatives in academia, media, and government do everything to push for more wars in the Muslim Middle East. Thomas Friedman has openly supported ISIS against Assad. So, Jews don’t mind millions of people being displaced and turned into refugees. THAT isn’t the moral issue as far as Jews are concerned. Instead, the moral issue is the West must take in these poor helpless refugees. Never mind it was the Wars for Israel that turned all those people into refugees in the first place. Never mind that Israel won’t take in these refugees. Indeed, Saudi Arabia, now an ally of Israel, won’t take the refugees either. Israel won’t even offer up stolen Golan heights for respite for Syrian refugees. Oh no, Jews like Soros and Co. steer all those refugees to the West and guilt-bait white goyim into taking them in… possibly to empty parts of Syria so that Israel can take over to create Even Greater Israel. The very people who’ve done the most harm to the Middle East and Muslim nations with New Imperialism and Wars for Israel(and sanctions that killed 100,000s of lives in Iraq) go about pontificating like they are moral saints. Imagine Nazi Germany invading Poland, displacing millions of Poles-as-refugees, and then whining about how the rest of the world won’t take in those poor helpless Polish refugees. That’d be vile, wouldn’t it? It is precisely what Jews do with Western Might in the Middle East.
    Of course, unlike Nazi Germans, Jews can get away with it more easily because the West is still ostensibly ruled by goyim. People fail to notice that most politicians in US and UK are mere puppets of Jewish oligarchs. And most people still don’t know that Jews control most of the media in the US, which means that Jewish elites get to decide who gets to work in mass media. (Notice how the Jewish oligarchic network in Deep State and Big Tech have worked together to shut down Alex Jones. Now, Jones is a kook who said crazy things, but the real reason why they took him out is not because of his nutty statements about Sandy Hook but honest and true statements about the New Imperialism in Syria, Libya, and Ukraine. And it’s rich that the very people who pushed the Russian Collusion Conspiracy Hoax and Fake News from the highest levels of government and media-academia-complex are accusing others of ‘fake news’ and conspiracy theories. It’s surreal, like Israel-armed-with-nukes accusing Iran that has no nukes. In the current order, Israel that violates all international norms, bombs Syria, steals Palestinian territory, and has 300 nukes is showered with billions of dollars in aid while Iran that allows nuclear inspections and has no nukes is crippled with endless economic sanctions. Jewish Justice. Based on all evidence, who can deny that US is governed by Zionist gangster-supremacism? Rule of Law is now a myth in America. The ‘truth’ is whatever Jewish Power says it is. If you disagree and speak the truth, Jews say you’re engaging in ‘hate speech’ and must be shut down and blacklisted.)

    Now, why are both Daron Acemoglu and Guillaume Durocher wrong about Convergence? They are wrong for different reasons. Acemoglu, for reasons that are opportunistic/craven or sincere/naive, rejects the Human Bio-Diversity(or HBD) explanation for Global Differences. He thinks blacks are just whites or yellows with black skin, yellows are just whites or blacks with yellow skin, and whites are just blacks or yellows with white skin. Skin Color is the ONLY difference among the races. So, all those Africans are really just Swiss or Japanese with black skin. 100,000s of yrs of evolutionary divergence of various human populations all over the world had no impact on anything but skin color. Some will argue that the evolutionary divergence of Europeans and Africans is 60,000 or 80,000 yrs, but that fails to acknowledge that Out-of-Africa was really Out-of-North-Africa. Even before Homo Sapiens left North Africa, the peoples in North Africa had already diverged from people in rest of Africa by more than 100,000 yrs. So, the evolutionary divergence between Europeans and SUB-SAHARAN Africans is more than 100,000 yrs. Now, different environments — for most of human existence, people lived in natural environments — favor different mental, emotional, temperamental, and attitudinal traits. If there were two rooms, and if one room zapped anyone who fidgeted too much while another room zapped anyone who sat still for prolonged periods, the result would be two groups with different temperaments. In the room where people who fidget are zapped out of existence, people who tend to be calmer will survive and breed. In the room where people who sit still are zapped out of existence, people who tend to be mobile and fidgety will survive and breed. Different environments and climates call for different skills and tendencies, and over long periods, populations in different areas will tend to have more of one kind of traits than another. Also, to the extent that cultural factors also play a key role in selective breeding, the cultural priorities of a people will tend to favor certain traits. If there are two communities and if one community favors the strongest while the other community favors the smartest, they will undergo different selection processes, especially in non-monogamous societies. As men like to hump women, the strongest guys in the pro-strong society will breed with the most women and pass down their genes, and the smartest guys in the pro-smart society will breed with the most women and pass down their genes. This can have a big impact in even a few thousand yrs(or even over several centuries; after all, the dog has been domesticated from the wolf for only a few thousand yrs, and look at the variety due to selective breeding). Is it any wonder that Jews often say, “A Jew is more likely to own a football team than play in one”? Jews culturally and genetically evolved in communities where brains were most prized among scholars or merchants/financiers. Most black Africans, until recently, lived in primitive hunter-warrior societies where one’s strength as hunter, rhythm as dancer, and prowess as humper(big dong and bouncy booties) were most prized. Then, it is any wonder that Jews are renowned around the world as scientists, writers, intellectuals, professors, lawyers, and financiers whereas blacks are famous around the world as boxers, football players, basketball players, rappers, bump-n-grinders, and ‘twerkers’? Black women came up with a style of dancing where they shake their booties like they’re having sex with a mega-dong. Notice all TV and music industry are owned by Jews. Notice how so many sports teams and most of mass media are controlled by Jews. Big Tech and Big Pharma are also Jewish-heavy, along with Wall Street and Law Firms. In contrast, blacks are prominent in endeavors that all for strong-song-and-dong. Now, some will argue that this is all about culture, BUT culture had selective pressure on evolution over centuries and millenniums. We can demonstrate this with the Blug-and-Bleek Experiment. Suppose there is a black community in the US, and suppose we randomly divide the community in half. Roughly, the two groups are more or less alike because they were of a single community. Now, suppose we favor the black thugs or blugs in New Group A. Those blacks who are most muscled, aggressive, abrasive, and loud are favored for mating. The blugs are lionized the most, and most women try to mate with blugs. Over time, blug genes will spread far and wide, and the community will be filled with tough and mean blacks like Mike Tyson and NFL defensive linemen. Now, suppose we favor the black geeks or bleeks in the other community, New Group B. We select the blacks who are most studious, intelligent, and even-tempered. They become the most prestigious members of society, and many black women mate with them. Then, bleek genes will spread far and wide. Over many centuries, the Blug community and Bleek community will be markedly different. The Blug community will have guys who can whup the guys of the Bleek community, but the Bleek community will have guys who are more likely to excel in business and enterprise. This is how genetics works. It’s how evolution works. But PC says genes have NOTHING to do with IQ and other factors, at least in an inter-group way. So, while PC admits that some individuals are smarter than others, it says no group has a greater number of intelligent individuals than another group. But using this logic, we should also say no group has faster and tougher individuals than any other group. Then, how come tiny Jamaica produces faster runners than all of China, Russia, India, Europe, Middle East, White America, and Brown Latin America? PC is the superstition of our age, and it’s not really about equality but about promoting the superiority of certain favored groups, especially Jews, homos, and blacks. James Watson would not have gotten in trouble if he surmised that Syrians might be more intelligent than Peruvian Indians. He wouldn’t have gotten in trouble if he surmised that blacks might be smarter than whites(and time will bear this out). He got in trouble because he said blacks are inferior in IQ. This was a No-No because blacks are sacred objects in the West.

    After all, why is Mandela so revered by the Jewish-controlled Western Media but Arafat is not even though Arafat also struggled for liberation of his people? It’s because blacks are holier than Arabs/Palestinians. Of course, the other reason is Jews are Holy too by PC rules. Because Mandela was seen as struggling against Germanic whites(even though Jews monopolized the diamond trade in South Africa and Israel & Apartheid South Africa were the closest allies) whereas Arafat struggled against Zionist imperialists, of course the Jewish-run media will favor Mandela over Arafat. Also, Jews can use ‘white guilt’ about blacks to paralyze white pride and agency, but ‘white guilt’ about Muslims, Arabs, and Palestinians would undermine Zionist agenda in the Middle East. If white people began to feel guilt about all the horrible things they’ve done to Arabs, Muslims, and Palestinians, they might stop aiding the Zionist Supremacist agenda in Middle East and North Africa. So, whites are to feel guilty about South Africa but yawn about the countless Arabs and Muslims destroyed by Zionist-controlled US policy in the Middle East and North Africa? All those Iraqi kids killed by US sanctions? All those Palestinian kids mowed down by IDF death squads? All the Syrians destroyed by US-and-Saudi collusion to support terror? Just forget about it.

    Anyway, if Acemoglu is wrong about Convergence because he’s too cravenly or naively PC to even entertain the possibility that there might be genetic differences among groups other than skin color, Durocher is wrong about Convergence because he still thinks in terms of the Old National Model. For most of human history, invasions were gradual and limited. Both Russia and China expanded slowly. Also, they did as much to repel foreign invasions as move into new territories. Until the Age of Empire, most of the world wasn’t interconnected. And even in the 20th century, most people stayed put in their own nations. Mass migration to the US was the great exception because of its vast size and riches. As such, it attracted peoples from all over looking for a short cut to modern prosperity(and/or freedom). Also, despite the global dominance of Hollywood, most nations had national media and national culture/identity. But in the internet age, the entire world has been flooded with the same streams of deracinating junk culture and trashy fashions. The great advantage of the internet is that once neglected voices finally reach an audience(however limited), but then, given that the biggest platforms are now monopolized by Zionist-supremacist oligarchs, there are all sorts of plans afoot to shut down BDS & pro-Palestinian voices, anti-war activists, European defenders of national sovereignty, and critics of Jewish Power & its globo-homo cult as the new spirituality. In Zionist-supremacist US, nearly half the states already have anti-BDS laws that force individuals and businesses into pledging support for the Zionist occupation of West Bank and murder of Palestinians in Gaza.

    Jewish Power is trying to make this law federal in the way it pushed ‘gay marriage’. So, even Palestinian-Americans with memories of Zionist terror must pledge support to Zionist tyranny against his/her own people if he/she wants to work for or do business with the government. It’s ironic that Jews, who’ve long railed against McCarthyism(that only lasted a few yrs), are now pushing for persecution, censorship, and blacklisting beyond anything conceived by McCarthy and anti-communists. But then, the very Jewish Community that said the Soviet Threat was no big deal in the 1950s — even though Jewish-American agents sent Stalin the secrets to the Bomb — is now trying to cram totally unfounded Anti-Russia hysteria down our throats. That is some chutzpah.

    Anyway, Convergence is likely to happen because of the spread of globalism to all corners of the world… with the exception of Israel, of course. The very Jews who demand that Hungary and Poland be open to mass migration-invasion say that all the world must support Israeli borders and the right of Israel to remain a Jewish State that prioritizes the survival and continuation of Jewish People, Culture, History, and Territory. Zionism in Israel is perfectly fine and is never demeaned as ‘far right’. Netanyahu is just called ‘right’ or ‘conservative’. But Viktor Orban is called ‘far right’, and why? Does he want to invade other nations? Does he want Hungarians to rule over non-Hungarians? No. The ONLY thing he wants is for Hungary to remain a nation for Hungarians, but THAT is deemed a crime against humanity. And even though he has the support of the majority of Hungarians, he is accused of being ‘anti-democratic’ because the will of Hungarians goes against the globo-homo agenda of oligarchs like George Soros. So, ‘democracy’, as far as Jews are concerned, is whatever they say it is. But such twisted logic is to be expected from a people who say nuclear-armed Israel must be defended from Iran with no nukes. It is to be expected from a people who say Israel that has 300 nukes and refuses international inspections deserves to be showered with billions in aid whereas Iran that has no nukes and allows international inspections must be economically sanctioned and strangled(or even invaded and destroyed by yet another War for Israel).

    In a sane world, all national leaders should be like Viktor Orban who is nationalist and anti-imperialist. Orban sees himself as a Hungarian leader for Hungarian people. So, Hungarian identity and interests come first IN HUNGARY. That’s why it’s Hungary. It’s the land of Hungarians. Now, Orban respects the right and duty of every other nation to put its people and culture first. He’s not one to tell the Japanese that Japan must put Hungary before the Japan or tell the Turks that Turkey should put Hungary before Turkey. He’s for the national autonomy and independence of all nations. As independent nations with sovereignty, they can live in mutual respect and peace with other nations, trade, and learn from one another. Orban’s position isn’t Hungarian-supremacism. He would never argue that Hungarians have the right to invade or barge into other nations or tell other nations how to run their affairs. All he wants is for Hungary to have the right to remain a nation of Hungarians. But according to Jewish Globalists, that makes him a ‘far right’ and ‘neo-Nazi’.
    Now, anyone who remembers history should know that Nazi Germany didn’t bring about the catastrophe of World War II by minding its own national business. It unleashed a massive war by invading other nations with German Imperialism. Also, all resistance to German imperialism was national. Polish nationalists resisted German invasion. French nationalists resisted German Occupation. Russians didn’t so much fight for communism as defense of motherland. So, which side is really nazi-like in the world today? Viktor Orban’s Hungary that wants to maintain national sovereignty and not be flooded with mass-migration-invasion? Or Jewish Globalists who inflamed the Middle East and North Africa with Wars for Israel, the premise of which insists that any number of Arabs and/or Muslims may be killed or forced into refugee-hood so that Israel’s role as lone superpower of MENA(Middle East and North Africa)is assured? Who are more Nazi-like? It’s clearly Jewish-Supremacist power that has turned Gaza into something like a New Warsaw Ghetto. It’s clearly Jewish-Supremacist power with spokesmen like Thomas Friedman who says he wishes the ISIS would remain to mess up Syria even more. It’s clearly Jewish-Supremacist power that turned Libya into a pile of rubble. Of course, it used goy puppets Obama and Hillary. Jewish Power is now so deranged that it even made common cause with Neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine to pull off a coup against a democratically elected government. Jewish Power acts like this but preaches to the world about ‘liberal democratic’ values.

    Unfortunately, most leaders in the West are not like Viktor Orban. They are more like pathetic puppets like Justin Trudeau, Theresa May, Emmanuel Macron, and Angela Merkel. These worthless puppets totally support the right of Israel to remain a Jewish state even as they renounce sovereignty for their own nations. They also look the other way about Zionist occupation of West Bank and mass-murder in Gaza. Granted, Orban supports Israel too, but it is on a give-and-take basis of “Hungary supports Israel’s right to be a Jewish state in exchange for Israel’s support of Hungary’s right to be a Hungarian state.” If anything, Hungary has the moral edge over Israel because, whereas Hungary is only about Hungarians in Hungary, the currently cancerous Zionism isn’t only about Jews in Israel but Jews taking over West Bank and fomenting more Wars for Israel all over the Middle East.
    Viktor Orban is not an isolationist, let alone a ‘xenophobe’. It’s just that his internationalism is founded on mutual nationalisms around the world. In other words, before anything else, the national elites should prioritize the survival, security, and well-being of their own people. Once those conditions are secured, they can work with other nations around the world. Jewish elites certainly feel this way in Israel. They put Jewish interests first and foremost. Then, why is it okay when Jews do it but wrong with Hungarians do it? Because the West is controlled by Jewish supremacists who say ONLY JEWS should have national rights while all goyim must be exposed to globalist hegemony. Jews hate the idea of a sacred bond between goy national elites and goy national folks. They want goy elites to pay heed to Jewish globalist masters and snub their own folks. This is why Jews push the globo-homo agenda. As homomania is now replacement of Christianity as a neo-spiritual cult(especially designed to appeal to fancy and haute elite members of society into vanity and narcissism, sensibilities that homos are obsessed with), goy elites who wave the ‘gay’ flag are more likely to be vapid clowns with heads up in the clouds than serious and mature national leaders with a deep connection to their own folk, culture, and history.

    Jewish globalists fear that if national elites connect with their own folks and culture, each goy nation will be a more difficult nut for Jewish Power to crack. Jews want national elites to pledge their main loyalty to Jewish globalist hegemonists than to their own folks. This is an old imperialist trick and nothing new. After all, the British Imperialists insisted upon the local native elites to pledged their main loyalty to the British overlords than to their own native masses. As long as the local elites obeyed the British Imperialists and supported British hegemony, they were handsomely rewarded. But if they tried to reconnect with their own folk and resist British Imperialism, they were ruthlessly crushed. The Ottoman Empire worked the same way. So, if the local Greek elites did the bidding of the Turkish overlords, they were nicely rewarded with carrots. But if they tried to reconnect with their own folks, revive Greek national consciousness, and resist Turkish imperialism, they were mercilessly crushed. As so much of the world has succumbed to the US-as-sole-superpower(and because the US is controlled by Jews), the national elites around the world are pressured to prioritize obeisance to globalist hegemony(dominated by Jews) than loyalty to the national folk. ONLY ISRAEL is to be praised for having a national elite that prioritizes the sacred bond between the national elites and national folks. Nationalism has become a Jewish monopoly in the 21st century. Only Jews are praised for the national unity between elites and masses. As for goy nations, the elites better feel closer to globo-homo hegemony than to their own national folks. So, Netanyahu or any Jewish leader can say, “I’m proud to be Jewish, I love my Jewish people, my main duty is to serve my Jewish people, and our Jewish nation must live forever”, and he is to be praised and admired. But if the leader of Hungary or Poland says much the same about his nation, culture, and history, the World Jewry will foam at the mouth and denounce him as ‘far-right’ and ‘neo-nazi’.
    Indeed, this is the main bone of contention between Jews and Trumpian nationalists. Most Jews claim to be ‘progressives’, but they are first and foremost Jewish supremacist globalist-imperialists. A true progressive should support nationalism as the best defense against imperialism. This is why real progressives in the past supported the Cubans, Algerians, and Vietnamese against European and American imperialists. They understood the need for national folks to define and determine their own identity and destiny. So, when Trump says he wants to pull US troops out of the Middle East so that the native folks can decide for themselves, true progressives should be supportive. But notice that all these so-called Jewish ‘progressives’ howl like mad dogs and insist that the US must remain(illegally) in Syria and other parts of the world. They mouth platitudes about ‘war on terror’, ‘spreading democracy’, ‘human rights’, and etc, but it’s all bull. If Jews are really for human rights, why don’t they make the US invade West Bank, remove Jewish invader-settlers, and restore the territory to Palestinians? The fact is Jews are addicted to supremacism, and they now support US imperialism because it really amounts to US-rael hegemony. Because Jews control the US and can steer US foreign policy to serve the agenda of Greater Israel, they are now the biggest fans of imperialism. Jewish ‘progressivism’ has become a mask for Jewish Imperialism, just like the British notion of the White Man’s Burden was used as moral cover for British hegemony. You see, the British weren’t conquering and dominating 1/3 of the world but only trying to spread the light of civilization. Likewise, if the Jewish-controlled US turns your nation into hellholes like current Iraq, Libya, or Syria, just tell yourself it’s all about spreading ‘liberal democracy’ or ‘human rights’ or some other BS one hears from MSM. And if you ask why such noble-minded Jews support the Zionist tyranny over Palestinians or partner with Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, just shut up and forget about it, as Rex Kwon Do would say.

    Many people remain blind to the reality of Jewish supremacist imperialism because the essence of Jewish power is in the networking than national ownership. In terms of nationhood, Jews have only Israel to claim as a Jewish State, and on its own Israel doesn’t amount to much as a world power. When the British ruled the world, there was obviously a British people of the British nation that gained dominance over other peoples in other continents. Same was true of the French Empire, German Empire, Russian Empire, Japanese Empire, and etc. Japanese Empire was about the people of Japan gaining dominance over non-Japanese peoples and lands. In contrast, it’s not so easy to discern the true depth and extent of Jewish Power. Apart from Israel, there is no nation in which Jews are majority or even larger than 10% of the population. Jews are only 2% of the US, the nation in which they have the most power. And for that reason, Jewish Imperialism uses goy fronts to serve as the Face of Power. Goyim like Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and even Donald Trump give the impression that US policy is ‘goy’ and ‘Christian’ when, in fact, most politicians are puppets of Jewish Money and Media. AIPAC and ADL use their muscle to force all politicians to support Jewish Supremacism as the cornerstone of US foreign policy. So, the US favors Zionist oppressors over oppressed Palestinians. So, the US showers nuclear-armed Israel with billions while strangling no-nuke Iran with endless sanctions. So, even as US invokes ‘saving Kurds’ as excuse to illegally occupy Syria, it turns a blind eye to the Jewish land-grab of Palestinian territory in West Bank. And even as the US media complex condemns Hungary for its border security to keep out migrant-invaders, it says little about IDF death squads mowing down Palestinians in Gaza who want to return to their ancestral homeland. US power is essentially Jewish imperialism, but many people fail to see this because the puppet leaders have been goys like Clinton, Bush, Obama, and even Trump. We are told that the US is a land of justice, human rights, and equal opportunity, but if so, why does it favor Zionist imperialists over oppressed Palestinians? Why does US foreign policy have one rule for Israel but another for Iran? Why did the US aid and abet Jewish oligarchs’ looting of Russia in the 90s but condemn Russia’s restoration of national sovereignty to prevent further foreign predatory behavior? Why are Israel and Jews around the world allowed to meddle so thoroughly in US politics and affairs, BUT there is all this crazy hysteria about Russia interference in US elections? It’s all Jewish supremacism and imperialism, but because Jews are a tiny minority in the US, people remain blind to the extent of Jewish power. And of course, the fact that Jews control academia and media also means that they get to shape the Narrative and present the Worldview. So, even though US encircles Russia, we are told Russia is the aggressor. Even though Wars for Israel have done so much harm to Muslim nations, it is poor poor helpless Israel that needs to be protected. Even though Jews disproportionately hog power and privilege, we should all be alarmed by ‘white supremacism’. Right, it’s the KKK teeming with toothless rednecks that controls Hollywood, Las Vegas, Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Pentagon, Ivy League, Law firms, and the Deep State. That’s why we have Wars for Hillbillies all over the world. That’s why we have renewed tensions with Russia. The hillbillies of the KKK have ‘white supremacist white privilege’ and force us to have another ‘cold war’. Jewish imperialism is especially dangerous because Jews camouflage themselves as powerless despite being the most powerful people in the world. At the very least, British and French imperialisms were honest. Brits took pride in ruling 1/3 of the world. French Empire meant French glory. In contrast, Jewish supremacists hide behind goy fronts to push their hegemonic agenda to destroy Iran, further the war in Syria, push ‘new cold war’ with Russia, fan Yellow Peril against China, and stoke anti-Muslim hatred. If anyone wants to know why so many Americans came to see Muslims as subhuman scum who should be killed by the bushel, he should begin by asking, “Who controls Hollywood?” Jews do, and for over two decades, the main villains were the Muslim Terrorists, the ‘ragheads’ or ‘muzzies’. So many impressionable White Christian kids grew up watching movies that said nothing is more glorious than to blow up a bunch of Muslims. The Jewish Way is to stoke White Christian hatred against Muslims and use Americans soldiers to destroy Muslim nations AND THEN to bring Muslim refugees to the West and hug them as poor victims of white ‘Islamophobic racists’. Notice how Jewish moral logic twists and turns depending on the context. When Muslims are OVER THERE, they deserve to be blown up with US bombs and mowed down by white Christian soldiers. But when the Muslims come OVER HERE, they are coddled and hugged as part of the Diversity Coalition that must stand against White Christian America. Moral logic can’t get any more surreal than that.

    Anyway, with globalism wreaking so much havoc — militarily, economically, and/or culturally — all over the world, uprooting entire communities, and steering Third World masses into the West, the result is Convergence by Migration and also by Miscegenation, not least because white males are being feminized and castrated by PC and globo-homo propaganda. Especially because national elites of goy nations are now such spineless puppets who prioritize serving Jewish globalists instead of defending and representing their own national folks, they push policies designed to replace the native or national folks with newcomers, much like how Zionists came to replace the Palestinians. Jews are said to be white but don’t identify primarily as white, European, or American but as Jewish(and supremacist). So, the number one priority of Jews is not European power, American power, or Western Power. It is Jewish supremacist hegemony. As far as Jews are concerned, it is the fulfillment of the Covenant. Even though most Jews today are secular, they feel great ethnic and historical pride as the people with the longest continual history, resilience, and tenacity. And especially because they are, pound for pound, the richest and most powerful people in the world, Jews feel that it’s a matter of cosmic justice and design that they must secure permanent supremacist hold over the world. Jews are now so addicted to supremacism that merely being a normal people getting along with other peoples is not enough. Jews must rule over other peoples and make them do what Jews demand. Jews see gentiles as horses to break, tame, ride, and make obey. Jews think in terms of “We must secure the supremacy of our people and the hegemony of Jewish children.”

    So, how are Jews to secure their supremacism and hegemony, to which they’ve become addicted? First, of course, Jews had to succeed in business and other elite fields. Thus, they gained domination of key elite institutions and industries in academia, media, finance, law, entertainment, gambling(and other profitable vice industries), real estate, and etc. In controlling the academia, media, and entertainment, Jews have been able to mold the minds of goyim, from elite to masses. So, even though the Jewish Agenda is terrible for goyim, so many goyim just go along because their views of history, morality, and justice have been largely molded by Judeocentric interests. Granted, some goy elites do know what’s really going on, but they fear speaking out because the combination of Jewish power and goy-collaborationist machinations will destroy them. Other goy elites go along with the charade because they are rewarded handsomely if they do. Take weasels like Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney, Marco Rubio, Joe Biden, Lindsey Graham, and so many others. By serving as barking dogs of Jewish globalists and Israel, they’ve gained so much wealth and/or privilege.
    Be that as it may, Jews know that carrots-and-sticks only go so far. Carrots are expensive, and loyalty lasts only as carrots can be offered. As for sticks, they are effective but only as long as goyim can be beaten down. But a people who’d been subjugated by the stick will eventually look for vengeance when the time is ripe. Money and Fear are not enough to maintain Jewish Power. So, Jews pushed the Holocaust as a new religion. It is supposed to make Jews seem holy as new messiahs who suffered the ‘greatest crime in human history’ and to instill guilt in ALL GOYIM as either having killed Jews or not having done enough to save them. Holocaust-as-new-religion has done wonders for Jews as it allows Jewish Power to destroy anyone not only with money or violence but morality. So, if anyone says anything critical of Jewish power or Israel, he can be denounced as an ‘anti-Semite’ and ‘neo-Nazi’, and ‘It’s holocaust all over again’, even though it’s been the machinations of Jewish Power that led to WWII-levels of destruction in the Middle East and North Africa, all for the benefit of Israel. And never mind that current Gaza is like the Jewish ghetto under Nazi terror. And never mind that no people are as filled with supremacist arrogance and tribal hubris as the Jews are. Indeed, it’s insane how we are all supposed to bitch and whine about ‘white privilege’, ‘Russian aggression’, or ‘Iranian threat’, but no one dares to mention the 800 lb gorilla in the room, i.e. that if any people in the world own disproportionate wealth, wield disproportionate power, and create disproportionate havoc(especially in the Middle East and Muslim nations), it’s the Jews. The Middle East is in the current state of chaos mainly because of Wars(and sanctions) for Israel, which in turn are the result of Jewish supremacist control over the US. With Jews having so much power, how come no one says anything about it? Again, there is the power of money, threats/violence, and morality-as-hammer. Jews buy off lots of goy politicians. With Jewish money comprising 60% of funds to Democrats and 25% of funds to GOP, most politicians are essentially whores of Zion. But Jews also control the media that can make or break anyone. So, if there’s someone Jews don’t like, the media go into lynch mob frenzy to tear that person down as fast as possible. Just ask Marc Lamont Hill. And because Jews have elevated themselves as the neo-messiahs-of-the-Holocaust, it is so easy to smear any critic of Jewish power or Zionism. Why, he must be an ‘anti-Semite’, which must mean he’s a ‘nazi’. Or, Jews will even resort to outright violence by unleashing antifa and other crazed mobs. If you belong to antifa or some ‘far left’ gang, you can attack people and cause mayhem but be tolerated, forgiven, or sprung from jail with Jewish money and lawyers. Indeed, Jewish power operates much like a gangster operation. Was anyone arrested for the attack on Tucker Carlson’s home? If a ‘right-wing’ gang did that Rachel Maddow’s residence, we know there would be a major investigation and non-stop coverage. But when antifa gangs attacked Carlson’s home, the response of Jewish supremacist mass media was ho-hum or even supportive. But then, Jews treat the Palestinians the same way. If an Arab in West Bank thinks he can get equal justice from IDF or Zionist court of law, forget about it. It’s like Israel not only gets away with everything but is showered with praises and money, whereas Iran is vilified and punished even when it does everything right with the nuclear issue. It’s the kind of ‘justice’ one must expect in a world governed by Jewish Supremacism.

    So, is Jewish Supremacism secure for all time due to their control of Carrots, Sticks, and Sacraments? Money, Threats, and messiah-hood(via Holocaust as neo-religion)? Jews don’t think so. Now, Jews have a lot of money, and they don’t have to worry about buying off goy whores. But, wielding the Stick is risky. Even as it may intimidate people into silence and compliance, anyone who’s suffered the Jewish Stick will hate Jews even more and want vengeance. Indeed, look at the attitude of Muslims in Europe. They’ve been beaten and humiliated by the Zionist stick in their home nations, and they are now raging with vengeful hatred against Jews. And even white people in Europe and America are getting sick of being insulted and destroyed by Jewish Power. They are beginning to feel, “Why should I support Israel and praise Jews when so many Jews are insulting us whites 24/7 and blaming us for everything?” Also, the internet has made it more difficult for Jews to totally own the Narrative. Voices on both the Left and Right are asserting themselves in strong criticism of Zionism and Jewish Corruption. Alternative Media have highlighted the injustice of anti-BDS laws and the hypocrisy of Jews who, though claiming to be ‘progressives’ on the side of underdogs, use their influence in both Political Parties to push through legislation that curtails free speech, freedom of conscience, and freedom of economic choice. They are waking up to the fact that Jews are trying to force ALL OF US into supporting the ongoing Zionist imperialist land-grab and tyrannical apartheid policies in the West Bank(and IDF death squad mass murder in Gaza). Indeed, consider how the Jewish Media Monopoly in 2018 suppressed the 70th anniversary of Nakba Pogroms that destroyed Palestine once and for all in 1948. Jewish control of media ensured that most people in the West wouldn’t even realize that they were complicit in aiding and abetting the destruction of the Palestinian people and culture. As far as Jews are concerned, ‘white guilt’ or ‘Western guilt’ must be manipulated and programmed to mainly serve Jews. This is why Justin Trudeau, the crybaby who apologizes and weeps about everything, never expressed remorse for Canada’s role in Zionist tyranny over Palestinians and various Wars for Israel that destroyed millions of lives in the Middle East. Naturally, Jews still need Western animus against Arabs and Muslims IF they are to use the US and NATO to pound on any Middle East nation hated by Jews. Sadly, so much of globalist news is non-stop Jewish Hate Campaigns against Syria, Iran, Palestinians, Russia, Hungary, Poland, or whatever people or nation that happens to be on the Jewish globalist shit-list. Incredibly, Jews, the people who bitch most about ‘hate speech’, demand that all of us hate whatever they hate. Most of us have no reason to hate Iran, Russia, Syria, Palestinians, and European nationalists(who only ask for border security and national sovereignty), but we must hate them because Jews hate them. This suggests that Jews see us as dogs than as humans. We are not to have agency in deciding who is friend or foe? We are not to decide for ourselves whom to love, whom to hate. No, Jews will decide for us, and our emotions are supposed to rubber-stamp the Jewish decision. Jews say they themselves are so lovable, so we better love them no matter what they do. If we don’t obey, we are ‘anti-Semites’ or ‘nazis’. And we better hate whomever Jews hate. Currently, Jews hate Russia, so we are supposed to hate Russia. Jews hate Iran, so we have to pile on Iran. Jews hate Syria that survived the regime change agenda of the Jewish-controlled Obama administration, and that means we better hate Syria too. And of course, Jews hate Palestinians, so we have to hate them too. Never mind Iran has no nukes. More sanctions on Iran. Never mind BDS is about justice for Palestinians. Shut it down and support Zionist takeover of West Bank. Love Jews and hate Palestinians. It’s hard to think of another people so consumed with hatred and paranoia.

    Anyway, because people are beginning to wake up to the true nature of Jewish Power, Jews now believe that even Holocaust-as-new-religion is no guarantee for permanent Jewish supremacy. As more and more people realize the discrepancy between the image of Holy Jews as wholly innocent victims of Evil Nazis AND globalist-supremacist Zionist-Jews who use their financial-media-military muscle to wreak so much havoc around the world, the trick of guilt-baiting goyim with Holocaust Sanctimony is wearing thin. Indeed, every time Jews invoke the Holocaust, a lot of people are more apt to be reminded of the distance between what Jews say and what Jews do. So, there’s Madeline Albright writing a book about the dangers of fascism while ignoring the fact that she said killing 500,000 Iraqi kids was ‘worth it’. There is Thomas Friedman bitching about Assad the tyrant while supporting the truly psychotic ISIS. There are Jews who call Putin the ‘new hitler’ but allying with Neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine. There are Jews telling ludicrous lies about Russian meddling in US elections when, in fact, the nation that meddles most in US politics is Israel, a tyrannical state that terrorizes Palestinians and works with evil Saudis to mess up Syria.

    Anyway, because more and more people are waking up to the true nature and extent of Jewish Power — that it is supremacist, imperialist, mendacious, murderous, hateful, and insane — , Jews feel that the ONLY way to secure their supremacy is by Diversity that allows for divide-and-conquer and Mass Miscegenation. A united people can eventually come together and overthrow minority-elite-tyrants. This happened in India, Algeria, Vietnam, and many other Third World nations. Indians finally came together to throw out the British minority elites. Vietnamese eventually regained their country from French and American imperialists. The British eventually left Singapore as well. This is why it’s important for Jewish supremacist power to increase Diversity among goyim and then pit goyim against one another. This is NOTHING NEW as imperial strategy. It’s as old as power itself. And this is why Jews are pushing for mass-migration-invasion of non-whites into the West. If Jews really believe that replacement of national folks with foreign folks as ‘New Nationals’ is such a hot idea, why don’t they push it for Israel as well? Jews have become the majority national folk population of Israel, and it seems Jews want to keep it that way. That’s why the ONLY kind of immigration that Israel allows is Replenishment-Immigration, or More Jews for a Jewish Nation. More Jewish immigrants mean more Jews in Israel. Thus, the Jewish state is replenished with more Jews. Israel also has pro-natal policy for Jews. So, Jews like the idea of Israel as a Jewish majority state. Jews appreciate the fact that there is unity of Jewish elites and Jewish folks in Israel. They are one people, united and indivisible. But notice Jews push Replacement Immigration in the West. Jews say white nations should accept more non-whites and call them New Europeans. Jews say whites should welcome being replaced by non-whites. Why would Jewish globalists support only Replenishment Immigration in Israel but push Replacement Immigration for nations like France, UK, Germany, Poland, Hungary, and etc? Why are Jews so eager to turn US, Canada, and Australia into white-minority nations? It’s all about securing Jewish supremacist power. By bringing non-whites to the West and then using PC to make non-whites hate and blame whites for everything, Jews are trying to create a permanent culture of dissension and discord among the goyim. Because whites are still the majority in the West, they are the main targets of the Jewish-controlled media, but the real trick is to turn everyone against one another. So, even as Jews urge Muslims in the West to join in the intersectional war against whites, Jews also use media and entertainment to spread anti-Muslim images and messages so that white people will support more Wars for Israel and anti-BDS measures. One bunch of Jews urge browns from Latin America to flood into America, and another bunch of Jews tell whites to focus mainly on the dangers of Illegal Immigration when, in fact, the main power behind the mass deluge of the West by the non-West is Jewish globalism.

    Anyway, it is this mass-influx of non-whites into white nations that will lead to Convergence. While browns on their own in Latin America and blacks on their own in Africa may never reach levels of Convergence with the West, they will converge with the West by demographic takeover. Also, eventually, demographic takeover leads to race-mixing, and that too is a weapon of Jewish supremacism. Jews know that a racially mixed populace will be more confused and disoriented, thus unable to form a united front against the elite class. We can see this by comparing South Africa and Vietnam with Latin America. In South African and Vietnam, most of the native populations were unmixed. So, in South Africa, it was essentially black majority vs white minority, and in Vietnam, it was yellow majority vs white minority. This allowed blacks in SA and yellows in Vietnam to form huge national blocs to work against elite minority power. In contrast, the extensive Hispanic rape of the brown natives in Latin America led to the vast population of mestizos. Mestizos, being part white and part brown, have never been sure what they are or with which side to ally with. On the one hand, they felt resentment about the white elites who ruled Latin America. But, being part-white, they didn’t identify with native browns either and, if anything, looked down on them as inferior. And so, even to this say, Latin American nations are still ruled by the white Latino elites of Conquistador background. Now, Jews have read a lot of books and know history. They’ve thought long and hard about Power and how to keep it or lose it. And being in supremacist mode in the West, Jews aim to secure permanent domination over goyim by pushing for massive Diversity and massive race-mixing. Jews look to Latin America as the model for all the West. Given the backwardness and problems of Latin America, one might say such prospect would be bad for US, Canada, and Europe. And most Jews would privately agree. But, Jews don’t really care because their MAIN PRIORITY AND OBJECTIVE are securing supremacism for themselves, not doing what is good for the West as a whole. All said and done, Jewish power is virulently Judeo-centric. It’s like many globalist corporations know that ‘free trade’ has had such a negative impact on so many people in their nations. So, why do they keep pushing it? Because their main priority is corporate profit above all. So, all said and done, they don’t care about the wider repercussions of ‘free trade’. What matters most to them is maximizing profits, increasing market-share, and fattening the portfolios of top shareholders. This is why capitalism, useful as it is, cannot be the defining core of any nation. And it suggests at why Jews make poor elites in the West. Because Jews feel so little connection with the goyim of any nation, they never ask, “What would be best for the national folks?” Jews ask that question ONLY IN ISRAEL, a Jewish state. In goy-majority nations, Jews see goyim as the Other and don’t much care what happens to them. Jews really only care about themselves and their power, and from that premise, they think, “What can we do with goyim so that they can be made to support and serve Jewish supremacism?” Of course, Jews will say they’re for Open Borders because they care for all of humanity and want them to enjoy the fruits of the modern West. But if Jews really care so much about non-whites and identify with them, why don’t most Jews emigrate to non-white nations and use their talents to develop the economies of Africa, Latin America, and the like? Why did Jewish Immigration patterns always favor white, especially Anglo-Germanic, nations over non-white ones? It’s because Jews know that whites make and maintain the best kind of societies. So, they want IN into the white world. If Jews have it so good in white nations, why don’t they just get along with whites? It’s because, being smarter, more ambitious, and more arrogant, it’s never enough for Jews to get along with whites as equals. They must rise to the top and gain control over whites. This makes Jews nervous because they fear that whites may eventually grow sick and tired of Jewish power that grows increasingly abusive, corrupt, and tyrannical. So, what can be done about goyim when they turn against Jewish Power? In Palestine, Jews used massive pogroms to expel the majority of the Arab goy population that finally woke up to the Zionist agenda and resisted. But obviously Jews can’t do that to whites in Europe and America. There are too few Jews and too many whites. So, to preempt the possibility of White Rage against Jewish supremacist corruption and abuses, Jews push for massive migration-invasion, the aim of which is to replace whites in Western nations. Once whites become minorities in the nations of their own making, Jews manipulate the various goyim to go at each other’s throats. Just consider how Jewish Power exploited ethnic and sectarian diversity in Syria to make the various sides fight one another. Diversity easily succumbs to devious machinations. Jews use Diversity to further their own supremacism, not out of any real compassion for people of color. Consider Jewish Power Politics in the UK. For a long time, Jews in UK pushed for mass-immigration and used non-whites against whites. But when Jeremy Corbyn sided with Muslims and Palestinians against Zionist Power, Jews of all stripes shrieked with rage. But wasn’t Corbyn merely siding with the underdog against the topdog? After all, Zionists oppress Palestinians in the West Bank. And in the UK, Jews are immensely rich and control media and banks, whereas most of the Muslim population ranges from poor to lower-middle class. So, didn’t Corbyn do the right thing by sticking up for Palestinians against Zionists and for siding with Muslim underclass against the Jewish-globalist ultra-capitalist overclass? Apparently not. Jews shrieked in horror and hurled abuse at Corbyn as an ‘anti-Semite’. So, as far as Jews are concerned, it’s okay for Jews to side with People of Color against whites, but it’s wrong for whites(even a lefty one like Corbyn) to side with People of Color against Jewish supremacists.

    Now, how will this race-mixing happen? Will it be even-mixing or uneven-mixing? By even-mixing, I mean equal number of men of one race mixing with equal number of women of the other race. So, if there are 100 Green People and 100 Red people and if 50 Green men hump 50 Red women and if 50 Red men hump 50 Green women, that would be even-mixing. Uneven-mixing would be if 50 Green men humped 50 Red women but if only 10 Red men humped 10 Green women. It appears there will be Convergence by Interracialism, but it will be uneven-mixing among the various races. Why is this? Part of the reason is that the great majority of Migrant-invaders coming to Europe from Africa and Middle East are men. Naturally, these African and Muslim men will seek out white women to hump. Also, as Western PC has spread homo-and-trans-gender cult among white men who are warned of ‘toxic masculinity'(that is never invoked to denounce stuff like Rap where black guys yammer endlessly about how they can kick butt and every ‘ho’ should ‘suck my dic*’, female Pop Idols who act like they got nothing on their minds but sex 24/7, and Jewish-operated Porn Industry), so many white guys have been turned into wussy castrated ‘soyboys’. Due to emasculation of white men, naturally more white women in Europe will go with more masculine men from Africa and the Middle East. But there is another reason why there will be uneven-mixing between whites and blacks, with mostly black men humping white women. Despite all the PC tripe about ‘race being a social construct’ and ‘all races being equal’, the very message sent by Mass Media and Entertainment is that black men are superior in manhood to white men. People get message from what is shown as by what is said. So, if people are shown a big cake and a small cake and told that both cakes are of the same size, they will HEAR that the cakes are the same size but SEE that they are of different sizes. It’s the Ear-Eye Dissonance. PC sermons TELL us that All Races Are Equal, but Sports and Pop Culture SHOW us that races are different. Sports show us that blacks are better than other races in running, jumping, and punching. Pop Music shows us that blacks can sing louder and shake their bodies faster. And one of the running tropes of Western Culture from youth culture to erotica is that black men have bigger dongs and black women are butt-crazy. And even though the media and entertainment are controlled by globo-liberals who TELL us of racial equality, all they actually SHOW us in sports and entertainment is that black men are more macho than white men and that black women are more lascivious than women of other races. We hear one thing through our ears but see something else. So, the dominant image of manhood and male prowess in BBC and Hollywood favors black men over white men. And of course, sports show that races are not equal in athleticism. Even European heroes like Achilles and Lancelot are now presented as blacks in European TV on the premise that black men are the real men while while white men, at least when stacked against black men, are a bunch of sorry losers and wussies. Look at our sports and pop culture, and the message is clear based on what is SHOWN. Black men are the real men, and white men should accept their defeat as a bunch of dorks. So, what is the effect of this message on the white race in Europe? It means white women should abandon white boy losers and go with black men, the real men. And since white guys are a bunch of saps compared to black men, they should gracefully accept their inferiority and worship the superior black men. This trope has become so widespread that a Daily Beast article says that sexual ‘cuckolding’ is now the number one fetish of white liberal intellectual men.

    On the one hand, white liberal men are supposed to believe that ‘race is just a social construct’ and ‘all races are equal’, but then, why do they feel a need to have black men hump their white wives or girlfriends? And why do white women want to take part in this? It’s because they are turned on by the taboo of racial differences. PC indoctrinated them to believe that RACE isn’t real and that all races are equal. And they will say that over and over in polite discourse. But in terms of what they SEE as opposed to HEAR & SAY, they can’t help but notice that there are racial differences, and that black men are tougher and have bigger dongs than white men. And this taboo element(that disproves PC dogma) turns them on.
    And, this is why Convergence in Europe will mostly be black guys conquering white wombs to produce mulatto babies and white guys accepting their own racial-sexual defeat as happy ‘cucks’. Indeed, Hollywood and Western Media(and advertising) promote the black male and white female pairing as the New Ideal. But why black male and white female than white male and black female? It’s because of the general consensus, by images if not by words, that black men are superior to white men and therefore deserve white women as the ultimate sexual trophy. So, all this interracial stuff is about uneven-mixing than even-mixing. It’s about the black male dominance over white males, and black men taking many more white women than white men taking black women. And statistics prove this in Europe, America, and Latin America. In the past, it was usually white men who humped black women because white man had the whip and gun. But all things being equal, black guys can easily beat up white guys, and this means that white women want to ‘go black’ because women, especially in our over-sexualized age, like macho winners over ‘nice guy’ losers. And so, that is how the Convergence will happen in the West. Because most European elites no longer represent and connect with their own national folk and instead serve the Jewish globalists, they will condemn nationalism and push for replacement-immigration, mostly from Black Africa where birthrate is 5 or 6 children per woman. Black African population is exploding, and these blacks now have smartphones and TV. And they see from the Western Media that white men are wussy cucks and white women are slutty skanks,and that both white boys and girls worship black rappers, black athletes, black leaders, black orators, black everything. Furthermore, European leaders like Merkel, Macron, and May say there is no such thing as ‘distinctly European’. They say Europe must be remade and reinvented by mass immigration and migration of literally hundreds of millions of Arabs and mostly black Africans. Also, because blacks dominate Pop music and sports, white boys and girls in the West worship blackness as ‘cool’ and ‘badass’, the stuff of demigod awesomeness. By Macron’s choice of photo-ops with half-naked blacks, his image-message or imessage to Frenchmen seems to be that Frenchmen must be good cuckoisie and welcome the Africanization of France because blacks are so awesome in sports and singing, and because French women, once going black, will never go back. And that is also the ‘imessage’ of BBC where, so often, black men are placed in roles symbolizing manhood and toughness while white men are relegated to roles of saps, wussies, and dorks.

    Another reason why Convergence will happen is due to feminism, elitism, and individualism in the West. Feminism means lots of white women will take good jobs from men. This means fewer white men will have the means to get married and have kids. Elitism has made too many white people value only good jobs and look down on Labor. This is a bigger problem in East Asia but a problem in Germany and such nations as well. Elitism means too many white people will get married and have kids ONLY IF they can be sure to raise ‘successful’ kids. They don’t want to have ‘loser’ kids with working class jobs, and that means lower birthrate. And that means the West has to import labor from other places. Germany, with the lowest birthrate in Europe, has to rely on non-Germans, so far mostly from Eastern Europe. This means that Slavs and other Europeans will converge with Germans. But as all of Europe has low birthrates, Germany will have to take in non-white immigrants from further away. Already, Germany has lots of Turks but also close to a million black Africans, and many more will be coming. Also, Germans think that promoting race-mixing with blacks and turning Germany into another Morocco will absolve them of guilt of Nazism. Another reason for cratering birthrates is individualism. As most Western people prioritize short-term happiness above all else, they live for fun, fun, fun and don’t think of the future and duty to the past. So, by the time white women reach mid 30s, they are often without marriage and children because they spent most of their youth whoring around. Also, elitism undermines marriage and childbearing. As so many people grew up with glamorous images of Pop Culture, every woman wants to meet Mr. Perfect who are actually few and far between. And this means European populations will crater, and the aging white population will figure that SOME OTHER PEOPLE should inherit the West. Since white people are not producing enough kids to inherit the West, it is to be handed to Africans and Muslims who will gladly take it since people like to get stuff for free. And the dwindling number of whites will mate and genetically converge with Africans and Arabs, with most of it being black men taking white women while white men are reduced to wussy beta-male-ism. Europe will resemble North Africa or even sub-Saharan African in 70 to 100 yrs.

    Now, we know Convergence is happening between the US and Latin America. As Jews control the US, they use all sorts of legal, financial, media, and political means to prevent restoration of border security and drastic decrease in Replacement Immigration. So, already, the entire SW territories are being Mexicanized. It’s ‘reconquista’ by demography. Even something so basic as border walls to keep out illegals is near-impossible in the US because Jews and their goy puppets have most of the control. Jews regard white Americans like they regard Palestinians: A people to be conquered, humiliated, and replaced. And of course, non-white immigrants side with Jews because they prefer to come and settle in white or white-made nations than in their own nations that are poorer, more corrupt, and dirtier. Because so many non-whites have been unable to transform their own nations up to Western levels, their ONLY chance of enjoying Western-style modernity is by running from their own people, land, & culture and starting over in white or white-made nations. They feel that they must go to and be with whites to enjoy Western standards of living. Deep down inside, they prefer whiteness over their own kind, which is why they want to drop everything and leave their own people/culture behind and start all over in the West and raise their kids to be ‘Americans’ or ‘New Europeans’. They may bitch about how ‘racist’ whites won’t welcome or accept them in sufficient numbers, but the fact is they themselves prefer to live with whites in white nations than stick around with their own peoples and cultures. In their preference for whiteness over their own kind, they are closet-white-supremacists in some twisted way. We know black African men prefer to leave Africa and go live in Europe and have sex with white women. And Asian women prefer to leave Asia and go live in the West and have kids with white men. Yellow people are obsessed with whiteness and want to move to white nations, marry whites, look white, and have white-looking kids. The high rates of out-marriage among yellow women in the West points to Convergence. The white-yellow mixing, like black-white mixing, is of the uneven-mixing kind. It is generally about white men taking yellow women as the general impression is that white men are more manly than yellow men. There used to be something like a Japanese-American community in the US, but it barely exists anymore because so many Japanese-American women mixed with white men while many Japanese-American men died childless. So, that is another kind of Convergence.

    Now, what about East Asia itself? Perhaps, because China is still ruled by a patriotic nationalist elite, something can be done to bolster Chinese identity and culture. But Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore are all puppets of the US, and their elites are little more than lapdogs of Western elites who, in turn, are lapdogs of Jewish supremacist elites. So, globo-homo stuff has spread like wildfire in East Asia to turn the men into a bunch of super-wussies and ‘herbivores’. Also, globo-culture via the internet has turned yellow women onto ever stronger doses of Western Pop Culture that, of late, has pretty much come down to black guys yapping ‘suck my dic*’ and white girls with jungle fever imitating black ‘biatches’ who ‘twerk’ all night long. Needless to say, Media and Entertainment in the West are mostly owned and controlled by Jews.

    In terms of elitism, individualism, and feminism, the East has all the social malaise of the West. Furthermore, just as globalism has emasculated white men vis-a-vis black men, it emasculates yellow men vis-a-vis white and black men as both whites and blacks are bigger than yellows. This means more yellow men will lose heart and withdraw into their own spaces, and it will mean more dissatisfied yellow women. And with cratering birthrates(more severe than in the West), the East will have to rely on foreign labor from lower-IQ nations. That means more Japanese women will have kids with manlier foreign men while more Japanese men die alone. And it will mean Japan will eventually be demographically colonized by lower-IQ people from other Asian, Middle Eastern, and African nations. And this pattern will likely be followed by Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore. It all spells Convergence.

    Won’t this kind of Convergence lead to degradation of civilization and decline of the Modern World? What will happen to Europe teeming with 100s of millions of black Africans and Muslims? It will likely be hell. And what will happen to Asian nations like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan with plummeting populations and loss of manhood and virility to produce new generations? It will mean the native populations will grow old and die out while more and more foreigners come to take over and gain more power. In 100 yrs, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan will more likely resemble Philippines or Indonesia. And it spells Convergence.

    So, Convergence will likely happen but by mass-migration and mass-miscegenation than by the Third World finally figuring out how to run things to catch up to the First World. The fact is the First World, in West and East, learned to use their minds and talent to create wealth and build lots of things, but they lost the human element, a sense of heritage, and feeling for folk and kin. They just became atomized individuals and consumers of electronic blips and blaps that offer them entertainment but no deeper meaning. People who put ‘materiality’ before ‘organicity’ will eventually die out. The West and East may have an edge in IQ and ingenuity, but they created inorganic pleasure-inducing gadgets that took the place of organic life. Imagine someone invents the perfect dildo vibrator that pleasures women in the most intense way. Suppose women prefer it over real penises that produce life. There will be pleasure but no life, and that will eventually spell doom. The current West and East are just high-tech dildos that feel good but produce nothing of meaning and purpose. That is why the West and East will be overtaken demographically by the Third World that, for all its stinking problems, hasn’t forgot how to produce life. That is how convergence will happen.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  189. Anon 2 says:

    A broader point I want to make is that I hope there won’t be a radical convergence between Central Europe and Western Europe. I champion Central Europe because I believe, following Aristotle, that life is about optimization, and not maximization (for example maximization of GDP per capita or even productivity per capita). I think Central Europe so far avoided the two traps, Western Europe’s horrible legacy of colonialism and slave trade, and Eastern Europe’s (mostly Russia and Ukraine) legacy of despotism, lawlessness, and (until recently) complete lack of democratic institutions.

    Czechia and Slovakia, two small, land-locked regions, dominated by the Germanics in Czechia’s case and Hungary in Slovakia’s case, had little choice but to adopt the bourgeois lifestyle (i.e., maximization of net worth as the measure of all things). Poland had a completely different history. After 600 years of existence it entered in 1569 into a personal union with Lithuania, and for the next 200 years, as the Polish-Lithuanian Republic, it was the largest country in Europe.

    There is a sense of adventure, not just a stifling pursuit of net worth, about Poland’s history. Unlike with Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, or even Russia, there are actually two Polands. The second is represented by the 10 million Polonians living in the United States today. The Polish landed in 1608 in Jamestown, VA, contributed two generals (Kosciuszko and Pulaski) to the U.S. Revolutionary War, produced many congressmen and senators (the latest is Tom Malinowski, born in Poland, just elected to Congress from New Jersey), and presidential candidates (Muskie, Pawlenty, Gillibrand, …). This spirit of adventure, exemplified also by explorers like Strzelecki (Australia) and Bronislaw Malinowski (W. Pacific) comes, I suppose from the battle in the Polish psyche between Romanticism and Capitalism (bourgeois mentality). Great Polish writers like Joseph Conrad (Korzeniowski), Witold Gombrowicz, and Czeslaw Milosz, explored that onflict in their writings.

    I divide all countries into underdeveloped, developed, and overdeveloped. I believe that the overdeveloped countries of W. Europe (esp. Germany, Britain, and France) as well as the U.S. have inflicted great harm on the inhabitants of the Earth (humanity, as well as flora and fauna), and hence I hope that Central Europe will never become over-industrialized and overdeveloped. I hope that capitalism will be held in check by romanticism and its respect for the environment that we are currently leaving perhaps irreparably damaged.

  190. Svigor says:

    In this context, “wisdom” is just some unquantifiable bullshit that people uncomfortable with IQ like talking about. The only real thing they seem to be referring to is the obvious fact that high intelligence doesn’t guarantee highly intelligent behavior, one the intellectually secure are comfortable with.

    It’s like how stupid people refer to high IQ as “book smarts,” as distinct from “street smarts,” when there’s no real distinction to be had (any divorce is owed to people with “book smarts” being able to insulate themselves from (and thus having limited experience with) the shit-encrusted street, an eminently intelligent choice for most people who have anything worthwhile to do with their time).

    • Replies: @Talha
  191. Wally says:

    “there would be reliable whistleblowing from many who were outraged if there was warning of the attacks which got through to Jews generally who worked in the Twin Towers.”

    Except that dead people rarely say much about anything.

    • Replies: @Anon
  192. Anon man says:

    Thing is, being a liberal materialist yourself you ignore the colonial assumptions behind convergence theory.

    All unique social customs & traditions must be submerged.

    You complain about blacks & jews doing to whites what you do to asians. Leftism for thee but not me.

    Why should we need cucked shit like freedom for women or rights for foreigners let alone equal rights for all men.

    Freedom of religion is just a ploy to get Desert madness into the country.

    Lee Kuan Yew commented that asians will just trade with you while western nations want to absorb your country.

    Ultimately, a world without all your gay tech but free of abrahamic religion is superior.

    You may argue otherwise, but that’s only because you’re blindsided by the true *abrahamic*nature of your secular liberal polity & the mulatto bastard race it spawns wherever it rules.

    • Replies: @UncommonGround
  193. Anon man says:

    Thing is, most westerners can’t understand wanting the tech but not the christcuck culture.

    A good analogy would be, you don’t change your last name every time walk into the store.

    Nobody cares about the charts showing x European achievement %.

    Each ancient civ made its own contribution & gay boasting doesn’t change the existence of different countries & the problems they need to solve.

    Among the second & third world elite, there IS a profound American cultural bias due in no small part to the threat of sanctions & other coercion to essentially convert their country to Judeo Christian norms.

    You can’t claim countries are different then try to force fit a single set of best practices across the globe.

    Shill arguments about do you want corrupt police & dead kids notwithstanding.

    The real core issue, which as a RWinger but still christcuck, you’d agree is that if any one country is *allowed*to do its own thing & even marginally succeeds it creates a crisis of confidence.

    Not to mention the bugmen elite actually believe their claptrap of not hitting women or being dedicated to one wife lol.

    Let’s all let everyone fuck our wives because matrilineal & also disarm ourselves because Toxic Masculinity.

    Aryan Imperium is the only way forward. Not Hitler but something far more ancient & not to be discussed here.

    Ms France is in Tears 😉

  194. Anon 2 says:

    Let me clarify how Romanticism (which had given rise to Enviromentalism) might be able to restrain the excesses of industrialization and overdevelopment in general. Joseph Conrad (Korzeniowski) stated succinctly in his brilliant essay “The Condition of Art” that “…the romantic feeling of reality … (is) a point of view from which the very shadows of life appear endowed with an internal glow.” Interestingly, this is precisely what one sees in certain altered states of consciousness – divinity is inherent in everything we look at: trees, rivers, animals, and human beings. Parenthetically, Karlin recently admitted to experimenting with altered states. I have done it for decades although I don’t recommend illegal drugs – similar effects can be achieved through meditation and/or Kundalini awakening.

    For the millions who are now experimenting with altered (although I’d use the term: expanded) states, nature appears endowed with divinity, and the net effect is to restore immanent divinity to our view of nature. This has had profound consequences. As predicted by Nietzsche, Europe ( and by extension, all white countries) are returning to their pagan roots, and rejecting the Jewish intervention in European history with its excessive focus on transcendent divinity and the concept of God as the creator of all things (technically, one version of this point of view is known as panentheism). To the Jews this may appear as counter-semitism, and they may find it troubling.

    An interesting case is Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, aged 29, newly elected congresswoman from New York. She was a nobody, a bartender, only 3-4 years ago, and today she is almost as popular as Trump. She is fulminating against the excesses of capitalism, and wants to raise the effective tax rate on the rich up to 70%. This is not making her a lot of friends among the U.S. market-dominant minorities, esp. the Jews since also she appears sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians.

    By the way, Christianity is not dying – it’s simply being transformed from Christianity 1.0 to Christianity 2.0, one with a greater balance between transcendent and immanent divinity. But Europe’s return to its pagan roots will have wrenching consequences for many – esp. the Jews and Muslims in Europe. In a sense I think this is partly what the gilets jaunes in France are trying to do on a deep level.

  195. @m___

    I believe that a summary would be as follows:
    a) Existing theories of government (and society, for that matter) does not fit existing fact of government.
    b) Measurements that existing theory of government says should be crucial(GDP) are no longer crucial (e.g. GDP does not measure displacement of base population).
    c) Governments realize this, and falsify the formerly crucial (but now almost useless) statistics to achieve secondary goals (e.g.: influence elections, enhance international prestige).
    d) Falsification is widely recognized, but many people make a living from their knowledge of existing theory and of the underlying real system (economists, judges, social commentators, some politicians, recipients of tax funds etc.). These people are unlikely to change their minds, and talking to them is a waste of time.
    e) However, many people are hurt by the absence of a predictive social theory (or, “a social theory that fits the actual society”). These people do not support the existing theory.
    f) Many people who make a living from their knowledge of the system and of system theory support the system weakly, and would abandon it if funding were lost.
    g) If the specialists in (f) abandon the existing theory, it will have no supporters left.

    The above is not a bad analysis, and applies to the failure of the Soviet Union. It is expressed in fairly complex English syntax, and much of it is allusion.

    It does not entirely describe the present situation, however.
    1) A large group, the Postmodernists, have adopted a coherent set of beliefs (those of the Counter-Enlightenment) and are using these arguments to defeat organized resistance to Marxism. (see: Hicks, _Explaining postmodernism_. This group is somewhat like the Bolsheviks, but is an establishment rather than a revolutionary party, is familiar to the public, seems to be losing internal structure, and has been rejected by much of the US base population.
    2) The Postmodernist/Marxists have imported or created (that’s what “neighborhood organizers” do) quite a allied groups that oppose the Enlightenment. Pretty much all of these groups also oppose Marxism and the Counter-Enlightenment as well as the Enlightenment. They are also opposed to the Postmodernists (Christians or post-Christians and Jews) on ethnic grounds. Each allied group apparently intends to displace the other allied groups after, or perhaps a bit before, their coalition gains office.

    This complicates the situation. The Marxists see parallels with the USSR’s October Revolution, but do not see that that they are far worse organized than the Bolsheviks, and that their allies are far better organized than the Russian base population of AD 1917. Each of their allies also sees a parallel from its history and overlooks its weaknesses.

    Should the Postmodernists / Marxist led coalition actually gain control of the Federal Government, contention between allies will cause serious problems. It is said in defense of Anarchy that “Anarchy isn’t very good, but it’s better than no government at all.”, which is a way of saying that anything is better than anarchy. Some form of government has, thus far, always emerged after anarchy.

    Globally, disorganization in the US would cause serious problems. The most serious would be severe reduction in trade as the US ceases to police the world’s ocean trade routes and ceases to provide a global currency.


    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @m___
  196. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:

    Singapore and Hong Kong (southern China at large) have lower incidence of malaria due to the efforts of the governments there to combat it. In the 1800s, which is what I was referring to, such efforts were nonexistent and the local population of southern China has a natural genetic resistance to malaria, like any other race of people who have lived at tropical latitudes for long periods of time.

    The colonial British, you’ll find, died in droves in Singapore and Hong Kong due to malaria, just as they did in Africa and India. Happy Valley in Hong Kong is called as it is ironically, on account of the great number of British who met their fate due to malaria there.

    But I won’t dispute that the overall governmental configuration of Singapore and Hong Kong was vastly different from the ones seen in Africa, the former being a great deal less extractive in nature than the latter. Perhaps the fact that the China trade in the 19th century, as it is today, was greatly lucrative and both were natural ports which offered a base for British commerce. Prevalence of malaria certainly was peripheral to the entire affair.

  197. @Cyrano

    i would be interested in hearing why anyone would want to dismantle the single best driver to improving individual empowerment.

    It makes sense to dismantle the mechanisms that bar capitalism from improving people’s lives, but tossing out the tub makes little sense.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  198. Good article.

    It is becoming difficult to deny the article’s thesis, and I mean that literally. Mass media propaganda is a denial of the article’s thesis, and is finding its task increasingly difficult. That is why it has become so shrill as to be difficult to listen to. Same with the “anti-racism” vote in Congress recently. One doesn’t need massive votes on trivial events to demonstrate faith in a thesis _if one really believes in the thesis_.

    Again, Gregory Clark’s _A Farewell to Alms_, 2007 presents an extensive case history that generally supports Durocher’s thesis. Worth reading.


  199. @utu

    more than likely, that (french loss of ability) if it were true would be the french revolution.

  200. @Cyrano

    It was always about money. Capitalism is simple to figure out. It’s rotten, because of the people who run it.

    Impossible to explain that already Robinson Crusoe was a capitalist, he decided on consumption against investment.
    What people complain about is globalism, open borders, etc., the fact that the nation states lose more and more political power.
    In the good old days there was protectionism, nations defending their citizens against big corporations, or protecting land owners.
    Protectionism was discussed at the time as now capitalism is discussed, but at the time, such as the time of the British Corn Laws, there was far less muddle headed thinking, see for example
    George Macaulay Trevelyan, ‘The Life of John Bright’, 1913, London, 1971, Westport, Connecticut
    Absolute protectionism may be as bad as absolute globalism.
    But, who wants to solve a problem, in this case power of multinationals, must begin by analysing the problem.
    Capitalism is just human behaviour.

  201. @Anonymous

    Morgont’s comment assumes Postmodernism: anti-realism (every thought an ideology), anti-individualism (minds formed by society person belongs to), anti-legitimacy (all ideologies attempts to oppress).

    Therefore, his language does not describe reality (because humans have no knowledge of reality) but it does ascribe status to people (because people do have opinions of other people). Words as punishment and reward, and validated by passion or commitment. In a phrase, it’s an attempt to create “political reality”, which Postmodernism claims is the only reality human’s can know.

    Nice work, if you accept Postmodernism.

    Q: How many Postmodernists does it take to brew a cup of tea?
    A: Nobody knows. There is no such a thing as tea, but the people who grow and sell it are capitalist racists with an evil history. You are an oppressor.


    • Replies: @Catiline
  202. @Anon 2

    Czechia and Slovakia, regions that suffered very little damage during WW II,

    The extensive damage was caused by the expulsion of the Germans, who ran the factories and the mines.
    And of course by the communist system, central economic planning
    ´Als die Deutschen weg waren, Was nach der Vertreibung geschah: Ostpreussen, Schlesien, Sudetenland’, 2005, 2007, Reinbek, Adrian von Arburg, Wlodzimierz Borodziej, Jurij Kostjaschow, Ulla Lachauer, Hand-Dieter Rutsch, Beate Schlanstein, Christian Schulz

  203. Sean says:

    Maybe we ought to think of nations like individuals in this respect: each one has its particular interests, aptitudes, and failings. And that’s all right. We shouldn’t expect everyone to want or be the same. Most of us ain’t Da Vinci.

    The point is to be realistic and to have good policies on that basis. The “convergence assumption” creates tremendous amounts of psychic pollution in the policymaking process and leads to perpetual disappointment.

    Enoch Powell said if growth means living like the Japanese live then give him no growth.

    The trouble is that there are classes within Western countries that want to grow China, and have endless immigration to keep wages for service workers low.

    Hobson [in 1902!) envisioned a dystopian future for a deindustrialized West ruled by a class of transnational managers and investors …:

    “The greater part of Western Europe might then assume the appearance and character already exhibited by tracts of country in the South of England, in the Riviera, and in the tourist-ridden or residential parts of Italy and Switzerland, little clusters of wealthy aristocrats drawing dividends and pensions from the Far East, with a somewhat larger group of professional retainers and tradesmen and a large body of personal servants.”

  204. @utu

    and Napoleon who fought wars here and there without apparent sense and reason (*) and eventually lost at cost of over 1 million of French lives.

    You do not seem to realise how the whole of aristocratically run Europe unanimously were of the opinion that a people that had beheaded its king had to be punished and subjugated.
    After Napoleon had made himself emperor France again seemed to be more or less part of the civilised nations.
    In how far Napoleon’s meritocracy offended, frightened, European aristocracy, difficult to judge.
    Wonder it anyone ever thought about that maybe the Dutch fleet against the British was such a success because the Dutch fleet was under command of real, non aristocratic, seamen, while each British ship, and the whole fleet, was under the command of an aristocrat, a land owner.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  205. @Catiline

    Foster convergence, you do not seem to realise that the EU oligarchy is playing a desperate game to prevent Brexit.
    The employment, for example, of a 100.000 Germans in the automobile industry is played with in order to prevent that GB excercises its right to leave the EU.
    EU blackmail during the past four year has consistently been: free trade, OK, but at the price of accepting free settlement of people in the whole EU.
    This free settlement, and having lost sovereignty in many other ways: EU High Court, forced to abolish cheap Ltd.’s, forced to apply EU rules for products made in Britain, but just for the British market, made the GB people vote for leaving.
    The Brussels budget is just leverage, threaten still relatively poor countries as Hungary and Poland with withholding subsidies, in order to force them to convergence: accepting Muslim immigrants.

  206. @Talha

    For debunking this fairy tale
    Emmanuel Bern, ‘Les impostures de l’Histoire’, 1959 Paris
    Alas it is not an easy book to read, it is a criticism of mainstream history, of mainstream historians.
    In order to understand it one must know mainstream history quite well, my knowledge is often insufficient.
    But it is a very interesting book, reading how history can be interpreted quite differently.
    For example the VERY important battle of Poitiers in 732CE, Bern reduces it to an Arab raid for plunder, while the really important battle between christianity and Muslims, in Byzantium, is hardly known.

  207. While some of the factors the author mentions certainly play a role in support of his thesis, any economic hitman will tell you that there’s more to it. It’s a sad fact that when certain third world countries make massive strides in development to equal the western economies, they get bombed by the same all the way back into the stone age (e.g. Libya, Iraq, Syria). So this high western I.Q. seems to correlate well with evil, spite, envy, or whatever it takes to maintain global economic supremacy.

  208. Anonymous [AKA "JTF"] says:

    In this context, I struggle to comprehend the definition of a “developed society” – hence it will be impossible for me to agree or disagree with the author’s POV.

    I have visited and observed quite a number of different nations, some having maintained the level of their infrastructure to highest standard, some built (or inherited) same and subsequently let it lay in relative disarray, and the more interesting ones, never have achieved the standards of the “developed” world to build theirs.

    At the same time, observing the societies, that is the people and their government structures, let me understand that the more self-reliant the people are, the less developed the infrastructure they need is and the opposite, the more the people rely on their governments, local as well as central, the more and more advanced infrastructure to support their chosen lifestyle they end up needing.

    Nothing to do with intelligence, but simple pragmatism, I think, as the self-reliant societies simply do not need the level of IQ the more “developed” societies do.

    Just my POV.

  209. @Wally

    “Most Americans still believe that their nation’s foreign aid programs supply poorer countries with needed resources as outright gifts or on easy credit terms at very low prices. Even those who are aware of the link between food aid and U.S. farm surpluses do not widely recognize the ways in which the United States has used food aid as a lever to dissuade foreign governments from achieving self-sufficiency in food to feed their populations. Yet what started out as a system of benevolent grants and loans to underdeveloped economies, at a real but moderate cost to the ample resources of America, has evolved into a strategy of international client patronage and dependency based on U.S. political and military control over aid recipients. Not only the incidental effect of U.S. aid but its stated purpose has been to restrict rather than enlarge the capacity for evolution of aid dependent countries toward greater self-reliance. ”

    ‘A few years ago I sought to update my breakdown of the balance of payments to update the impact of U.S. military spending and foreign aid. But the Commerce Department’s Table 5 from its balance of payments data had been changed in such a way it no longer reveals the extent to which foreign aid generates a transfer of dollars from foreign countries to the United States, as it did in the 1960s and 1970s. I phoned the statistical division responsible for collecting these statistics and in due course reached the technician responsible for the numbers. “We used to publish that data,” he explained, “but some joker published a report showing that the United States actually made money off the countries we were aiding. It caused such a stir that we changed the accounting format so that nobody can embarrass us like that again.” I realized that I was the joker who had been responsible for the present-day statistical concealment, and that it would take a Congressional request to get the Commerce and State Departments to replicate the analysis that still was being made public in the years in which I wrote Super Imperialism. ‘

  210. There will be convergence if the Globalists have their way. We won’t all become Denmark but rather Burkina Faso.

  211. Talha says:

    I didn’t say it was quantifiable, I said there was a distinction. “Wisdom” has had a lexical significance and distinction from “intelligence” through the ages and across human cultures. If you don’t give much credence to it because it cannot be measured in a lab is fine with me.


  212. Nawi says:

    After reading a few lines of the link you provided, it was clear to me from which side (from an ideological point of view) the person who wrote that is coming. This person comes from the same side of those who kept repeating for years “30000 people dissapeared” (the exact number were somewhere between 8000 – 9000, do not get me wrong…., even if it was just one person who dissapeared was terrible, the point being…, if you know 30000 is a lie what keep saying the same ?)

    Instead I trust what the offfical census 2010 says, 2,4 % of Argentina total population is “Indian” (by the way, more than 21 % of those 2.4 % are Mapuches WHO ARE NOT originally from Argentina but from Chile and they arrived in Argentina around 1825 – 1828 , almost 10 years after Argentinian independence and as a consequence of the persecution were suffering in Chile) and 0.4 % is of African descent so…. I do not care from where this “professor” who wrote your article get those numbers.

    Link to the OFFICIAL CENSUS, Chapters 10 and 11

    • Replies: @Mikel
  213. anarchyst says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    You pose a very good question–one which I have no answers for.
    I don’t understand the penchant for the Polish to accept jews. Every person of Polish extraction that I know has a visceral hatred of jews, correctly assigning blame for the imposition of communism on the jews.

  214. anarchyst says:

    Look up “Odigo”, the jews-only message service. Odigo was used to warn jews who worked at the WTC to stay home.
    The same thing occurred with the OKC Murrah building bombing. The FBI and ATF agents were warned to stay home.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  215. Catiline says:

    That’s a lot of empty verbiage accusing someone falsely of using empty verbiage.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  216. aspnaz says:

    GDP has followed resources in the past and still does the same but tends to also follow government regulation. This essay is like skimming the top off milk, it tells you less than 1% of the story, it is basically meaningless.

  217. It’s really quite simple, differences in economic performance are due to climate. In a cold, forbidding climate, nothing is free. Who doesn’t want to work can die. Because of such harsh realities, everything needs to be purchased and thus expressed in money. In warmer climates, you get a lot of sunshine and fruit for free. So why work all the time? Quality of life is expressed in access to free amenities rather than in charged ones. Income indexes seldom tell the whole story. I imagine an independent African farmer with an income of 1,000 dollars per year (do they still exist?) is much better off than his former neighbour who now lives in a slum trying to get by on 3,000 dollars.
    And then of course there is Anglosaxon racism, measured in the distance to Oxford.

  218. Anon[156] • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t think you read what was said. The implication was that, if there were thousands of American Jews who received a warning, and survived accordingly, there would be bound to be whistleblowers and others whose non Jewish partners were told and who then told others. Of course Druid was all over the place in his spluttering about Jews and Israelis so I don’t know what you thought he was saying.

  219. Anon[156] • Disclaimer says:

    Intriguing. Who used ebonics? Who is the pestilential scum?

  220. @jilles dykstra

    Wrong about the Royal Navy ships and fleets being under the command of aristocrats, let alone the landowners. It was the army in which purchased commissions meant that younger sons of landowning aristocrats, not the landowners, were often in command – with poor results at least at the beginnings of wars. The British came to “rule the waves” in large part because of superior professional leadership. Only the Dutch, and, earlier, the Portuguese, came close.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  221. @anarchyst

    Druid has referred to 4000 Jews as working in the Twin Towers in September 2001. You have to be very credulous, and ignorant of Jews who aren’t Israelis or active Zionists not to see that the story you are supporting is ridiculous. Unless the Jews who received the message were a very small carefully targeted part of the 4000 nothing could be more certain than whistleblowing from within their ranks. Most American Jews are not active Zionists and very many marry Gentiles who would be even more likely to spill the beans.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  222. @The Alarmist

    “It is easy to see why the Yellow Jackets are out there in the streets of France while the leadership of the two countries plan even deeper integration.”

    Agree. One thing that jumps out from that map of European GDP by region is how polarized France is between the affluent elite metropole in Paris and almost uniformly less affluent provinces. The divergence between the capital and the provinces looks much starker there than in any other European country. Is it too much to wonder if this was also the pattern in 1788?

  223. Beckow says:
    @Anon 2

    All humans have to engage in the ‘stiffing pursuit of net worth‘, it comes with having to eat. We go out to find something to eat every day, hopefully without being eaten. Assigning to others the bourgeois lifestyle is a shallow throw-away line, we are all bourgeois.

    Everyone in Central Europe understands that Poland has a ‘romantic‘ side, or what you call a ‘spirit of adventure‘. Good for you, but it hasn’t always worked out that well. What Poland – as a society, not individuals – seems to lack is a rational side: calculate risks, costs and benefits, and act accordingly.

    Today, Poland is at the forefront of the latest assembling attack on the east – as so many times before. It is probably costing Poland 1-2% of its GNP, and may become more costly in the future. We don’t do that in Czecho-Slovakia. Is it because we are not romantic or stifled? No, we don’t do it because it has never worked and will not work this time either. One reason Poland has suffered so much is that they often fall in love with a random Western power (today UK and US, in the past also others like France, Habsburgs,…), and volunteer to be used as the battering ram to destroy eastern Europe – and in the process usually suffer themselves enormously. They are incorrible, recently a Polish diplomat in Slovakia told me that there won’t be peace in Europe until Poland meets China on the Ural border. Right. (He was drunk, but the sentiment is there.)

    …Aristotle, that life is about optimization, and not maximization – for example maximization of GDP

    I agree. I also agree that Central-eastern Europe is one of the last regions left that can attempt to do this. But Poland is actually an obstacle to this – their romantic desire to play in the big leagues is very destabilising. I know an analyst who calculated that Polish sabre-rattling is depressing asset values in the whole region by 12-15%. That is on top of more direct economic costs like nobody buying Polish apples.

    West has self-destructed and seems unable to stop the decline – in 1-2 generations they will be basically a richer version of Third World countries. They are converging down. I suspect many in the West would like to prevent a Central-Eastern Europe alternative. The two weapons they have is to push the same migrant demographic catastrophe on us, or to start a war with Russia. Poles seem to understand the first one, but are more than willing to do the second one. That Warsaw-Lodz super-airport might be built for a different reason than you think.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  224. @Miggle

    You make some valid points, but you overdo it, just like socialism-bashers, except in the opposite direction.

    As you listed most of the advantages of socialism (free healthcare, free education at all levels), I will add only one – affordable housing you got from the state. I had a government-supplied one-bedroom apartment in the USSR and paid for it less than 6% of my modest salary (paid 8 rubles 47 kopeks per month out of 143 rubles). In the US that would cost you at least 30% of your salary in a similar bracket, and in NY City, Boston, or SF it would cost you a lot more.

    Now, for the drawbacks.

    Naturally, the resources for providing it all were generated by underpaying more productive members of the society. The good thing was that these resources were used to improve the living conditions of the majority, rather than being stolen by a handful of the most unscrupulous thieves (billionaires and other mega-rich scum), like in the US and today’s Russia. However, the “equality” was carried too far, dumb and lazy people were still provided the minimum, even though they weren’t worth even a fraction of it. This created a disincentive to work hard. In some occupations (like mine – I do basic research) the job has its own rewards, so some people worked well. In others they figured that being a slacker you actually get more than you produce, whereas being an honest diligent worker you got less. The people who took pride in their work still did it well, but you cannot build a society based on personal virtues of individuals: virtuous people are few and far between. Let me give you an example: in the Middle Ages European scientists did their research, even though they could be imprisoned or even burnt at the stake for their efforts. Naturally, the society at large remained woefully uneducated, because thinking and creative science was punished, rather than rewarded.

    Soviet society was too simple for the end of the 20th century: there were much fewer career options, as practically all jobs were government-created, and the government did not have much imagination.

    Planned economy was also carried too far. The place where I worked had the money, but we had to order reagents a year ahead. If I knew what I am going to need a year from now, I’d be writing papers, rather than doing experiments. When I graduated from Moscow State University (which, as I know now, gave for free an education as good as you get at Harvard, Yale, or MIT paying a fortune for it), I had a feeling that they taught as to swim, but did not put water into the pool. The system was extremely wasteful. We managed to do anything useful by bartering: when you needed something, you looked for people who have it, and then offered whatever you had in exchange.

    A critical drawback was negative selection of the elites: scum rose to the top through party ranks, due to demagoguery and total lack of scruples, whereas decent people never got to the positions of authority (pretty much like in the US today). That eventually caused the downfall of the USSR: the elites wanted to steal a lot more than they were allowed under the Soviet system, so they betrayed and ruined it. They achieved their goal: a lot of the mega-thieves in Russia (they are called “oligarchs” there; they would be called “successful businessmen” in the US and similar capitalist societies) are former party and young communist league functionaries, who were close to the trough, and thus had the best chance to help themselves to the loot.

    Market works when there is competition, where the product is such that consumers buy it repeatedly, so if someone’s goods are bad, you switch to a different producer. That is true for socks, nails, pants, and similar things, but not for everything. When the nature of the product is such that you buy it once in your life (say, higher education, or heart surgery), the “market” is a ruse: competition does not exist, so you are essentially robbed blind by the most unscrupulous thieves.

    Bottom line is, there are no ideal societies. Each system has its advantages and drawbacks. The best the society can do is let market work where it is beneficial, and heavily regulate areas where real market with competition cannot exist. The driving force of market is greed (profit is a polite term for greed, which capitalism apologists prefer). It is a powerful natural force, like water or wind. Unregulated these forces produce devastating floods and hurricanes, by they can be harnessed by regulation and turned to good uses. Today in the West unregulated greed drives globalization, which is even more destructive than floods and hurricanes. It leads to the suicide of societies that let it loose, like present-day West. However, you have to maintain a delicate balance, to avoid over-regulating the production and distribution in areas where the market actually exists and can be beneficial. In this, like in anything, the only difference between medicine and poison is the dose.

    • Agree: Cyrano
    • Replies: @Beckow
  225. Mikel says:

    Perhaps you are right that the article I provided has some ideological bias, I don’t know. But the genetic study it is based on by geneticist Miguel Marino is published in the scientific literature:

    Similar results for the province of Santa Cruz:

    In the province of Buenos Aires a different group of Argentinian geneticists found that the Amerindian paternal component (Y-STR) is only 6% but the maternal one (mtDNA) is 44%:

  226. @Wizard of Oz

    Since we now know that the chosenites were warned to stay out of the office some of them obviously did spill the beans to the general public. Or how else would we know? Just saying. Of course you’re saying it’s all a lie. You should go and check if there were any chosenites on that US navy ship Israel bombed and whether they were warned to clear out before the bombs started falling. But anyway what makes you think they wouldn’t be prepared to sacrifice some of their own if it serves a higher purpose?

  227. Beckow says:

    Thank you for a good summary of how markets-socialism work and don’t work.

    One big issue today is that most Westerners have been so heavily propagandised about what life used to be like in the ‘socialist countries‘ that all discussions quickly descend into silly caricatures. I don’t really blame them, one cannot comprehend a society without some basic experience with it. The ‘east’ was literally invisible as it really was to 99% of people in the West, they only got constant media and school propaganda. And Hollywood. The 1% who had direct exposure to what it was like to live under the damn commies were either scared, self-serving and vengeful emigres, or security types paid to think certain way. After a few generations of fighting the communist menace most people employed doing it started to mimic the enemy, that’s why the latest crop is so bad – although belatedly.

    West has always been extremely visible to the others: everyone has grown up with a fairly accurate picture of what West is like from culture, media, constant exposure. Some would idealize it, others denounce it, but the picture was generally full-bodied and accurate.

    Other huge shortcoming of capitalist (market) economy is that eventually it has to monetise everything. Things that are hard to monetise – like the once-in-a-lifetime purchases that you list – end up in a bizarre inefficiency tailspin that slowly take over most of the economy. Today in US it is happening with education, medical care, and even housing to some extent.

    Another consequence is that desirable but hard to monetise activities get slowly pushed out: raising children, bakeries, bookstores, unsubsidised art. Eventually it will look like the uber-market that one finds today in the Third World – all at service to all, all the time and everywhere, street stalls and not restaurants, people hassling for any minimal reward. That is what free market economy looks like – they have had it in most of the Third World since time immemorial. Civilization was partially about getting away from that Hobbesian world of day-to-day. There was a reason the uber-market was regulated and constrained in the West – the crazy ‘libertarian utopia’ doesn’t work well.

    Because of the blind spot about what socialism was all about, what it was really like to live there, most Westerners are unable to change their own societies. They bough the bs that they were fed and now they are paying the price. There is always a price a society pays for embracing an ideology.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  228. @Wizard of Oz

    Anything to support your assertions ?

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
  229. Cyrano says:

    That’s exactly what it is. Real improvements to capitalism costs money. Phony improvements don’t cost anything in the short run – but they don’t improve anything either. As a matter of fact, they make everything much, much worse.

    I wasn’t advocating all or nothing approach. Of course capitalism can be improved. But they don’t want that – because they see it as coming out of their pockets. Instead they decided to fake the greatest humanism project in the world – to show that they have compassion for the poor. The problem is that they have compassion for the wrong poor. First they owe it to the domestically born and raised poor – to improve their lives, before embarking on phony scheme of improving the lives of the 3rd worlders, to whom they don’t owe anything, except maybe to stop robbing them via unfavorable trading practices.

  230. @Beckow

    You are right, ideology always stifles an honest discourse. Funny thing is, the same people that bemoan current indoctrination about immigration and LGBT appear to have swallowed line, hook, and sinker equally BS indoctrination about socialism and spit out totally nonsensical statements about “life under commies”.

    I don’t know about Czechia, but in the USSR our information about the West was seriously skewed. State propaganda focused on “horrors of capitalism”, which produced the opposite effect of what it was shooting for: Western model was idealized by many. I have to confess that I had a lot of illusions about “democracy”, “free” market, “free” media, etc., that were dispelled only by my actual experience of living in the US for many years. As current Russian joke has it, “what they told us about socialism was mostly lies, but what they told us about capitalism turned out to be perfectly true”.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  231. @Anon man

    Lee Kuan Yew commented that asians will just trade with you while western nations want to absorb your country.

    Well, a few weeks ago German television brought a documentary about Chinese expansion in Asia and in Africa in two parts. I was quite shocked. If the information of the documentary is right, they seem to be absorving countries. Lots of people loose their lands for the Chinese. Countries make debts with the Chinese to build unnecessary ports and because they are unable to pay it back, the Chinese get the rights to the ports for 99 years, and so on. They seem quite arrogant. In Pakistan their soldiers cross agressively the border to prevent Germans filming on the Pakistani side.

    • Replies: @Nawi
  232. @Polish Perspective

    One could say, well, that’s all just because of high IQ. Maybe, but if that was true all along, why wasn’t it [Scandinavia] more advanced during the spread of the printing press etc. Europe was not that isolated

    Evolution doesn’t stand still. It’s an error to think that people are fundamentally the same today as they were half a millennium ago. We cannot go back and measure the IQ of Europeans in 1500, but there is indirect evidence that they were, on average, less intelligent. Heiner Rindermann (2018, pp. 86-87) argues that mean IQ gradually rose during the late Middle Ages and into the early Modern Era. It’s not simply that people became more literate and numerate, they also showed an increase in logical thinking and understanding of causality, chance, and probability.

    This evolutionary change was outlined in Gregory Clark’s book A Farewell to Alms. The middle class grew throughout that period, not only in absolute numbers but also as a proportion of the total population. Meanwhile, downwardly mobile members of the middle class gradually replaced the lower class, which was demographically stagnant.

    Clark, G. (2007). A Farewell to Alms. A Brief Economic History of the World. Princeton University Press: Princeton and Oxford.

    Clark, G. (2009). The domestication of man: The social implications of Darwin. ArtefaCTos 2: 64-80.

    Rindermann, H. (2018). Cognitive Capitalism. Human Capital and the Wellbeing of Nations. Cambridge University Press.

  233. Meanwhile, it seems that the economies of several countries in Africa is growing very fast, among the fastest in the world (see link bellow in German from Austrian television). If we want to keep pace if them, maybe we should do something to improve our IQ.

  234. peterAUS says:

    Talking about LONG comment……

    My summary:
    Very good when talking about”globalist elites”.
    Weak when giving too much emphasize on Jew Question with too little on “native” Western elites. “It’s all Jew fault”. I don’t think it is.
    Some good insights about race (that about Blacks and Jews, for example) and also, (for uninitiated) about Holocaust (TM) and “progressive” mindset.

    Overall, one of those rare comments in this pub worth wadding through 90 % of the rest.

  235. @Anon

    Most brilliant, but most inefficient without skeleton and chapters.
    But than Globalism is failing big time. Zionists eventually would be able to control Russia, because after all they did control it before but Zionist would never control China because there is great racial distinct difference. But the approach from beginning did not show any promise of success.
    Globalism is dead.

  236. Nawi says:

    German journalists are all bought and paid by the BND/CIA/CFR. Read Udo Ulfkotte “Gekaufte Journalisten” if you want to know more about that. Would this journalists be REAL and HONEST journalists, before they start talking about the “dangerous Chinese and Russians” they should start talking about the crimes commited by Nato (and Germany IS PART OF NATO) or they should explain to the Germans why, after 70 years is Germany still occupied by US troops or why the first NATO soldier killed in Afganistan was a young German (22 years old) or that the syrians are in Germany because Germany helped the US destroy Syria or…or…or

    The Germans journalists/politicians should shut up, end the propaganda and stop being US minions.

    • Replies: @UncommonGround
  237. Beckow says:

    Information about other countries is always skewed. In pre-1990 Czecho-slovakia (and in Hungary and Poland) the information about the West was generally available: movies, TV, music, books. There were topics that were taboo: some religion, extreme social liberalism, WWII revisionism (mostly of the German kind), but everything else was available.

    Most people could also travel and very often did, my parents took me to London, Paris, Vienna, etc… the main issue was exchanging money, there was a limit on how much and how often a family could do it. There were a few groups that would not be allowed to travel: security and military (for 5 years after service), people with alimony and other debts, open ‘enemies‘ of the state (small number of maybe a few thousand people), young men after draft and before serving their military service, and people with recent family emigres who left illegally. I saw a number in archives that showed that on average 94% of requests for travel were approved. Some people argue that many didn’t bother to apply, so the effective number was lower, but what can one say to that? If you didn’t bother to apply how do I know if it was due to laziness or lack of money. It is also a reality that similar travel restrictions have existed (and still exist) all over the world, incl. in the West. If you were in the West German security, US military, or even some teachers in some countries etc… travel to ‘socialist east‘ was strongly discouraged. This was a lot more complex and less one-side than a ‘Berlin Wall’ metaphor (that only applied to the special case of East Germans).

    The illusions are always a problem, it is our nature to see the grass as greener elsewhere.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  238. peterAUS says:

    Good comment.

    It does not entirely describe the present situation, however.
    1) A large group, the Postmodernists, have adopted a coherent set of beliefs (those of the Counter-Enlightenment) and are using these arguments to defeat organized resistance to Marxism. (see: Hicks, _Explaining postmodernism_. This group is somewhat like the Bolsheviks, but is an establishment rather than a revolutionary party, is familiar to the public, seems to be losing internal structure, and has been rejected by much of the US base population.
    2) The Postmodernist/Marxists have imported or created (that’s what “neighborhood organizers” do) quite a allied groups that oppose the Enlightenment. Pretty much all of these groups also oppose Marxism and the Counter-Enlightenment as well as the Enlightenment. They are also opposed to the Postmodernists (Christians or post-Christians and Jews) on ethnic grounds. Each allied group apparently intends to displace the other allied groups after, or perhaps a bit before, their coalition gains office.

    This complicates the situation. The Marxists see parallels with the USSR’s October Revolution, but do not see that that they are far worse organized than the Bolsheviks, and that their allies are far better organized than the Russian base population of AD 1917. Each of their allies also sees a parallel from its history and overlooks its weaknesses.

  239. Hank Yobo says:
    @jilles dykstra

    N. A. M. Rodger, The Wooden World: An Anatomy of the Georgian Navy, pp. 252-302, should suffice.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  240. @Nawi

    There are some subjects and areas where German journalists are useless. In spite of that, there are also other subjets where they can do a reasonable job. The discontentment of people loosing their lands for Chinese projects seems to be real, their expansion in other countries also, the images of their soldiers crossing the border as if the other side of the border was also their territory to tell German jounalists to stop filming also seemed real.

  241. @Beckow

    In the USSR we had some movies, but movies w/o personal experience are misleading.

    We did not have much opportunity to travel. First, you could go anywhere, even to Eastern Europe, only in a group, which I never wanted. Second, before going abroad you needed to be interviewed by the local party committee, who tended to ask stupid questions (I had this experience only once, in 1989, then they abolished this practice). Then even when you went in a group, you were only allowed to exchange very limited money, particularly when you went to “capitalist” countries. So, my first trip abroad was in 1989 to a scientific meeting in Prague. That’s where I learned what good beer actually is, even visited famous “U Fleku”, where Švejk drank his beer. I like Czech beer ever since. Now you can buy some varieties of Czech beer even in a shithole like Nashville.

    I was in Prague a few years ago again (drove from Leipzig, where I visited collaborators). I found that it did not change much, except now you have a lot of street musicians and remarkably cheap classical music concerts played by excellent musicians in various churches. The waiters in all restaurants now speak enough German, English, and Russian to serve you in any of these languages. They tend to pretend that your credit card does not work and want cash, like in Italy. I fact, in Russia in 2018, in Moscow and in provincial cities, I paid by credit card everywhere w/o any problems (but I left tips in cash, so the waiters did not need to declare it as income). The variety of beer in Prague actually decreased since 1989, but what remains is still good.

    I think that one of the biggest mistakes of the communist government in the USSR was that they did not allow people to travel, work abroad, and see the reality for themselves. First, normal people felt cooped up and fenced off, like cattle. Second, the reality would have confirmed a lot of their propaganda. Anyway, life is irreversible, what’s gone is gone.

  242. By-tor says:

    It was a deliberate scheme put together under US cover to put W. Germany under firm US-UK economic and banking control.

    ” The 1948 currency reform under the direction of Ludwig Erhard is considered the beginning of the West German economic recovery; however, the secret plan to introduce the Deutsche Mark in the Trizone was formulated by economist Edward A. Tenenbaum of the US military government, and was executed abruptly on 21 June 1948″.

    Germans flooded into the east to dispose of the old currency as it would not be redeemable in the ‘Allied Sector’. There was no way to exchange the Reichsmarks for anything of value in the western sector after the brief grace period. You are the one who is not informed.

    • Replies: @Anon
  243. Beckow says:

    Most Westerners had no personal experience of the east, and there were almost no movies (it is still the same). So their (mis)-understandings are almost comical. It hurts them because a number of topics are taboo, or quickly disposed of, because of an almost complete mis-perception of what socialism was all about (good, bad, ugly, with great beer and sloppy bureaucrats). They don’t know what they don’t know.

    I also think a lot of emigres-students-travellers have made it worse with an instinctive spouting of stupid, shallow stereotypes (often with the Bond-villain accent). They are scared of disapproval, eager to please, cherry-pick what they say, and often have deep actual hatred about their past. That reinforces the false and incomplete picture. Not understanding reality has never helped anyone, it is hard to evolutionary adapt if one doesn’t even get what is going on.

    A very simple adaptation that is desperately needed for the West right now is prevented by some stupid talk and black-and-white shallow understanding of the past. So they talk nonsense about ‘open borders’ (=freedom), and ‘free market‘ in human fields that simply cannot work with market mechanisms. They demonised socialism to the point that they are rushing headlong into recreating a miserable 19th century ‘liberal’ economy, this time with an unlimited Third World labor. And when you point it out to them they blabber something about Stalin, Berlin Wall, or even Hitler. Good luck with that, there are no errors as costly as false analogies.

  244. peterAUS says:

    …the Serbs could have taken care of you in a matter of weeks. In those days everything was against them. You got lucky.

    Speaking of which, and keeping focus on this Western deplorables despair about their displacement let’s take this opportunity to mention another event from “then and there”.
    Srebrenica, Summer ’95.

    To summarize, first:
    How to be a nice guy, deplore (pun intended) violence and, at the same time prevent own demographics replacement? I don’t know, but, perhaps, some idea will turn up.
    Back to the event.

    Muslims, in that region, were living there for, around……400 years. Careful reader shall notice it’s a bit longer than the current Muslims living (and still getting into) West.
    At that time and place they had around 10 000 men armed with light weaponry (meaning not even mortars). Still, their own territory, with some fortifications, and more (proper) guns (machineguns , RPGs and such) than the current Muslims…anyway.
    It took Serbs around…….12 hours to smash their defenses and push them into fleeing.
    Took them (Serbs, that is) next 4 days to complete the job: a couple of thousands Muslims fleeing the area got killed along that escape route and between thousand and two were captured and consequently executed in a rather well planned effort.
    Bad guys, these Serbs, of course, so the consequences, including Hague etc. The message, naturally: you can NOT do that.

    And, the message, looks like it, got a very good hold in West. You can’t do anything like that. fact…you can’t do anything. Well, you can bitch and moan (anonymosusly), you can even vote every now and then for somebody who won’t do anything etc.
    What you can do is wait and watch being displaced.

    Hard to be a good guy and win this game, looks like it.
    Funny part is, when one decides not be a good guy could very well be too late.

    Ah, well….

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  245. Anonymous[248] • Disclaimer says:

    I’t too ignorant to figure out what happened in my shithole

    But now I’m here to take revenge.

    So, you’re both stupid and hostile. This is what we warned about all along. Thanks for making it obvious.

    If lucky, you’ll be shipped back.

  246. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:

    Thank you for honestly proving you were wrong about the 1961 Wall being needed to stop West Germans flooding in to Easy Germany to spend pre 1948 money! Interesting links I am sure.

  247. @By-tor

    Somebody built Great Zimbabwe and there is no evidence that whoever it was was white.

  248. @Hank Yobo

    Thanks, I was going to reply with something like “a lifetime of reading on related subjects”.

  249. @peterAUS

    You talk idiotic nonsense as always, The CIA hired Muslims from Afghanistan Chechnia and Iraq, and transported them to Bosnia. Precise number of them nobody knows except CIA itself.
    These were the ones who were the core of Bosnian uprising. Large numbers who were shot at Srebenica came from these imported mercenary group. (Maybe all.)
    (I did talk with them on certain website. They did have an opinion that going to Bosnia was a mistake.)

  250. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Most probable all of them. You do not see Bosnian mothers an wives carrying flowers on the graves of their loved one.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  251. peterAUS says:

    The CIA hired Muslims from Afghanistan Chechnia and Iraq, and transported them to Bosnia. Precise number of them nobody knows except CIA itself.
    These were the ones who were the core of Bosnian uprising. Large numbers who were shot at Srebenica came from these imported mercenary group. (Maybe all.)
    (I did talk with them on certain website. They did have an opinion that going to Bosnia was a mistake.)

    I like this comment. Short and to the point.
    The point being: nicely confirms my conviction that an average person is simply…. dumb.

  252. peterAUS says:

    Most probable all of them. You do not see Bosnian mothers an wives carrying flowers on the graves of their loved one.

    Thank you. I mean it.

    Correction of mine:
    Nicely confirms my conviction that an average person, if really believes in something, is simply…..beyond help.
    As for you, I don’t think you are trolling. I believe you are disturbed. Keep at it.
    Free speech and crawling out of woodworks.

    Smart guy the owner of this pub. And people around and behind him.

    All good.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  253. Me: France has stolen most of its wealth from Haiti and Africa, and formerly from South East Asia.

    Hank Yobo: “France was the Continental powerhouse from at least the mid-seventeenth century until 1870 or 1914. Haiti, Africa, and SEA had little or nothing to do with it.”

    1697: France got Haiti from Spain in the Treaty of Ryswick. France had 700,000 slaves producing sugarcane. BTW, you will not find the Charles X Ransom in the whitewashed Wikipedia history of Haiti. Check this out:


    1543-1759 Quebec, where French colonialists killed wildlife as far west as Saskatchewan
    and as far south as New Orleans. The valuable pelts were sold in Europe.
    1634: Senegal
    1674 – 1954 (… 1954 !) Pondicherry, on the south-east coast of India.
    1710-1815 Mauritius (Indian ocean)
    1830 – 1962 Algeria
    1849 – 1945 French concessions (monopoly on trade) in Shanghai, Guangzhou and Hankou
    1853 – now New Caledonia
    1858 – 1949 South East Asia i.e. Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos
    1862 – 1867 Mexico
    In 1870, French colonial possessions were estimated at 5 million km sq and 1 million people.
    Source: Pierre Milza, Napoléon III (in French, Paris: 2006), pp. 626–636
    1880 – 1960’s (as formal colonies) Mauritania, Senegal, Guinea, Mali, Ivory Coast, Benin,
    Niger, Chad, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Gabon,
    Cameroon, Djibouti, and Madagascar).
    1881 – 1956 Tunisia
    1912 – 1956 Morocco

    An honest accounting, for a “comparison” such as M. Durocher’s, would have to include both the positive benefit to France in the form of wealth transfer, and the negative benefit to these colonies in the form of massive quantities of people outright killed, and of course the inevitable maladministration, corruption, debt-traps and other consequences of neo-colonialism.

    Millions in Haiti were killed, mainly from extreme imposed poverty. In Algeria, French liberality in killing resulted in about 800,000 dead in the war for independence. In Cameroon, 20 million were killed, according to the French humorist, Dieudonne M’bala M’bala, whose father is from Cameroon.

    In Vietnam, during the 1945-1954 war against the French, the death toll was 400,000 to 842,000. The American War added about 3 million more deaths, and of course the Americans dropped more tons of bombs on Vietnam that on all of Japan and Germany during WW2. I once read an editorial in the 1980’s in the Economist magazine which asserted that Vietnam’s economy was doing far worse than its neighbors because of bad (i.e. Commie) government. That was the last Economist issue I ever touched.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  254. cassandra says:

    Agree with jbwilson24: probably a bot.

  255. cassandra says:

    Your example makes the point that geoplitical actors (the CIA) interjected externalities (mujahaddin) into events. The fact that Durocher neglects similar globalist favoritism, especially in modern times, dilutes his argument somewhat.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  256. @peterAUS

    I am satisfied now. Now I do know what I wanted to know. But remember You started it.
    You are no Croat. I have known many Croats. On top of it one of my sons in law is Croat.
    I do know Croat mentality, You would not find one Croat who would give a rats arse about Bosnia.
    Besides; you are too far civilized to be a Croat.
    You are Anglo Saxon residing in one of Anglo Saxon countries. Probably if you are honest, It is Australia.
    But remember the one who laugh last has the best laugh.
    England is in trouble.That girl who is running England does not know what she is doing.
    England will be out from EU one way or the other.
    Scots and Irish will remain in EU happily getting rid of English yoke that is around their necks
    Trump now will be impeached within one month. Civil war will start immediately.
    I do not worry about Australia. Australia is already Chinese colony.
    So good by and farewell. I will not bother you anymore.
    p, s.
    We had a little argument about Korean war!
    Find it and reread it!
    Than you tell me who is dumb?

  257. @cassandra

    I swear on Mothers grave that what I did write there it is true. I did have discussion with Jihadists,
    (probably Chechens) and they did tell me that going to Bosnia was a mistake.)
    I only did presume that they did not got there walking. And if they were from three countries somebody must have organize it, Who other could organize it if not CIA.
    And there is jut that collusion with US bombing campaign.

    • Replies: @cassandra
    , @peterAUS
  258. sb says:

    Hong Kong and Singapore were originally insignificant fishing villages.
    Plenty of Western powers had a go at establishing Asian trading settlements -mostly now forgotten

    Maybe emphasis on rule of law and ( generally ) incorruptable institutions might have something to do with it .
    Actually you don’t have to look any further than the Americas to see something similar

  259. RobRich says: • Website

    IMHO the article is weakened by acceptance of far-left definitions. the Libertarian model and its ability to pierce the propaganda is more helpful.

    >Capitalistic countries are limited if they do not adopt the US Bill of Rights (BoR) which creates capitalism with its system of continual improvement via juries, militia-grand-juries, common law, etc. Put another way, the US is the only capitalist country. The problem countries all had authoritarian socialist regimes of left or right. They’re baby freer-market democracies. India and other ‘exception’s’ to democracy were stricken by socialist/high taxrate and anti-democratic centralist policies and still are. Freer markets democracy is the formula. IQ and geography etc. has an effect but most here repeats what Libertarians have been saying for decades. the US is the workshop of the world attracting the higher IQ/EQ which is why the Libertarians says it must expand territorially (or at least the BoR system) to solve e.g. immigration issues.
    >The socialist success stories are mostly a lie (The Nordic countries are less socialist than much of EU, and the Southern countries bore the brunt of fighting communism; n much of their poverty is a lie or statistical artifact) as are measures like PPP. Countries like Germany adjusted for taxes, COLA etc. are about where Alabama is but less freedom. The Islamic countries that have high numbers survive from socialistic plunder of private oil reserves, remember. African tribal socialism is alive and well as we’re seeing in South Africa, Zimbabwe, and other pseudo-democracies. Nations with high tribal populations that never desired high incomes and thus should be excluded from GDP counts (the tribal populations) as the US does with Native reservations. The Latins dissolved their reservations under socialist influence; segregate them out and you see a big difference.
    >Everybody ignores that the Libertarians led the fall of communism and ongoing improvements in every country now. The academics/media pretend its all mysterious ‘social forces.’

    Finally, the chart would be more truthful if it divided nations in 3 groups: by those above and below the US poverty level and those less than half that. The co-relation of US-like democracy vs. authoritarian /tribal oppressive socialisms would be clearer.

  260. This is the way Brussels tries to get convergence
    The countries with wrong ideas about democracy are fined.
    Brussels of course decides what the good ideas are, and what the wrong ones.
    At the same time Brussels makes sure they have money galore, member states lose the right to veto EU taxes.
    Unbelievable that this can happen right under the noses of the victims, the common citizens of EU member states.
    The frog in the pan with water on the boil, it seems

  261. @Catiline

    Heh. I knew you’d say that. Catiline illustrates my point.

    To a Postmodernist , all words are empty except for their social effects. This includes SJW and almost all on the Left, the more so if they are crunchies who never heard the word “Postmodernists” in their lives and are under the impression that they thought up Marxism all by themselved.

    This is an often effective retort that exploits (oppresses?) the tendency of historic Americans to try to reach an agreement with other people. In recent years, that has been extended to _any_ other people, including convicted felons and other people who are obviously flat dangerous to be around. What the script says I’m supposed to do is try to convince Catiline that he’s a crunchie, playing with fire, and that he’ll end up like a 60s hippie/druggie in the ’70s. I could tell you stories about that, but back to work. He would replay this song:

    and I would look like a fool.

    Today — well, I’ve lost family members to Postmodernists, nearly lost myself. I don’t have any friends who are Postmodernists. They want to be burnouts, well, all I can say is “Get on with it, man! What’s the delay?”


    • Replies: @Catiline
  262. @gone,gone beyond

    What shall we charge the non European cultures for what we gave them for nothing, from the steam engine to the nucleair reactor ?
    And how far back do you want to go in the calculations of who owes whom ?

    Are Muslims going to charge us for the irrigation systems in Andalusia, and for translating the old Greeks, just existing in arabic, into latin ?
    Quite interesting will be the stirrup calculations, maybe even more the plow calculations, or the agricultural improvement calculations.
    Harnesses for oxen and horses, also quite interesting.
    But to whom are we Dutch going to charge the development of the fluit ship, at the time an economic revolution ?

    As to slavery, also quite interesting.
    In the good old days selling oneself to a creditor to get rid of debts was a usual method.
    Black slaves from Africa, chiefs bartered whole villages for arms and powder.
    The descendants of those who were bartered must sue the descendants of the chiefs.

    Anyone wondering what to study: law.
    Great times lay ahead.

    • Replies: @gone,gone beyond
  263. Anon 2 says:

    1. Re: Warsaw-Lodz super airport Poland is simply taking advantage of its central location in Europe, and hence wants to become the logistics capital of Central Europe. The current airport in Warsaw (even with the addition of a smaller one in the north for low cost airlines) is already grossly inadequate for the current needs. For example, Warsaw is being besieged by Jewish tourists from Israel and the U.S., who visit Poland to go shopping, and because they have a sentimental attachment to Polish cuisine. Moreover, the enormous numbers of guest workers and students from Ukraine, and even Belarus and Russia, also add to the air traffic. Also growing numbers of young people with Polish roots in Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, and Kazakhstan these days get a Polonian’s Card (Karta Polaka) which enables them to study (and settle) in Poland;

    2. Slovakia is a small country, not terribly strategically located. Who’s gonna attack it? Czechia? Hungary? Ukraine? Poland? The latter has no such luxury. I’d say that the terrain between the Oder and Bug rivers is the most strategically located region in Europe because the neighbors, Germany and Russia, know that whoever controls Poland controls Europe. Just one look at the number of times the occupying powers competed over Warsaw between 1795 and 1945 is enough to convince anyone that many groups are irrationally attached to Poland – Russians, Germans, Jews, and of course the Polish. It’s interesting to be an object of such lust on the part of so many people! Hence Poland has legitimate security concerns that Slovakia or Czechia don’t have;

    3. I heard someone say that the Czechs appear western because they come across as ‘cool.’ Fairly or unfairly, the Czechs (and to a slightly lesser extent Slovaks) as the most germanified of the Slavs will give the impression of being soulless robotic net worth maximizers. That’s related to the standard critique of the Germans as the robotic efficiency maximizers – Germans have no soul whereas the Polish and the Russians have plenty of it. A German friend who went to study at the famed Film School in Lodz (Poland) in fact told me that the Germans are unable to show real emotions on film whereas the Polish have no such difficulty. An American intellectual who is an amateur pianist and a lover of Chopin’s music once wrote that he was literally shaking as the train he was on crossed the border into Poland. So there you have it – without Polish romanticism Chopin’s music would have never come into being, and would’ve never affected so many millions of people.

    • Replies: @Nawi
    , @EugeneGur
  264. Epigon says:

    I can shed a bit of light on Serbs today.

    There were several large migrations to Habsburg held lands, from around 1530 to 1700.
    Those people settled from present day Slovenia (Bela Krajina still has Serb Orthodox people descended from 1530 arrivals) to present-day Romania (Banate – Timisoara had Serb plurality at the end of WW1). These were peasant-warriors, settled on border areas exposed to Turkish raids and invasions, and enjoyed higher rights than serfs of indigenous population. I won’t go over nobility of various rank which went on to serve from Poland to Hungary.

    Another group resettled to Venetian held Dalmatia during Acquisto Vechhio, Nuovo and Novissimo periods.

    Both of these groups were exposed to significant Catholic and Uniatic pressure, with various discriminatory laws aimed agains them. Venetian held urban settlements could only have Catholic or Uniat inhabitants, while attending a military school or attaining a higher officer rank required conversion from Orthodoxy in Habsburg Empire.
    The 1878 invasion of Bosnia&Herzegovina was led by 3 Serb AH generals. Isonzo front was commanded by Field Marshal Borojević, another Orthodox Serb descended fellow.

    During that same time, the Ottomans held the entirety of erstwhile Serbian Kingdom/Empire territory. The aristocracy often converted immediately (example of sons of Herzog of Saint Sava), while the Ottomans took the smartest/healthiest boys from Serb families as part of devsirme.
    Many of these attained highest ranks in Ottoman Empire during its best years, while keeping their identity – Grand Vizier Sokolu the most famous one.

    But the worst, the most dysgenic period of Serb history was the 20th century.
    Firstly, 55% military capable men died in WW1 in Serbia proper – these were patriotic, stateforming freemen.
    They were supplanted by Serbs from outside of Serbia (prior to WW1, more Serbs lived under Habsburg than Serb rule) when the ill-fated Yugoslavia was created.

    Then comes WW2, and around 250 000 Serbs deemed most trouble for Germans are taken to captivity, farms, camps after April 1941 war.
    Then, Croats, Albanians and Bulgarians in their zones target the nationally conscious and prestigeous locals. The Ustashe had clear instructions to eliminate the most worthy individuals and families, expell the worst, and assimilate the rest, the notorious 1/3 principle.

    The Yugocommunist movement relied overwhelmingly on Serbs in NDH/Croatia, and the ensuing Yugocommunist rule promoted worst Communist anational scum, proletarian butchers and snitches. Combined with ideollogical brainwashing for almost 5 decades, with subsequent wars, further persecution outside of Serbia, mass exodus and later on NATO sanctions, bombing, puppet government from 2000 to 2012, 25% unemployment, 200 euro wages and 500+ k emigrees…

    Honestly, I am proud we are still alive and kicking after everything that has happened to us. Might have something to do with glorious ancestors and myths of the past.
    There is often a palpable disdain for lower segments of population, West cargo cultism on one side, and romanticist, uncritical appraisal of our nation on the other.

    You will never see me going around negating the 92-95 average IQ (Gypsy, Aromani/Cincar assimilation baggage in addition to previous dysgenic events) of Serbs, nor the obnoxious combination of socialist mentality and modern pozz.

  265. Epigon says:

    No offence, but you have no idea what you are writing about.
    There were less than 10 000 foreign volunteers total during the entirety of war.
    Vast majority of them were concetrated in El Mujahid regiment, and the second part in 7th Muslim (Mountain) Brigade.

    peterAUS has displayed vastly more knowledge of the Yugoslav War and realities in his posting.

  266. @Anon 2

    I champion Central Europe because I believe, following Aristotle, that life is about optimization, and not maximization (for example maximization of GDP per capita or even productivity per capita).

    Strongly agree with this. I take GDP as a proxy for social organization and an important geopolitical variable (i.e., high GDP/capita can bribe other countries, brain-drain them).

    In fact, I think we should only wish for sufficient growth to ensure our physical well-being (met) and our cultural development. The latter has been provided for in terms of information technology. We could afford to have a great deal more leisure if we could wean ourselves off expenses such as cars (I mean: sport for all, intellectual/artistic endeavor for those gifted in those areas).

    • Replies: @Catiline
  267. Nawi says:
    @Anon 2

    Yes, I think Poland is the center of the world.
    By the way, are you Polish ?

  268. @Epigon

    I do talk only facts. I am not even capable to hide lies under flowery language like rest of you.

  269. German and English etc still dont know how to cook and if you want to compare what about the Guitar(Spain),violin (Italy),etc against the mercedes benz?
    What about the art,etc
    With who you may compare Miguel Angel ,Davinchi in the whole worl in the whole history?
    I take any town in Spain and Italy and you keep the rest or the north for you.
    What an arrogance and fool of crap

    • Replies: @Nawi
  270. Catiline says:

    I’m not a Postmodernist. Never said all words are empty, but yours certainly are.


    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  271. Catiline says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    I take GDP as a proxy for social organization and an important geopolitical variable

    You’re an idiot. Go back to Counter-Currents and play footsie with Greggie.

  272. Catiline says:

    Hey Willie:

    But France, by far the largest beneficiary of the CAP, said the proposals were unacceptable and stressed they were only a starting point for negotiations.

    The European Agricultural Guidance and Guarantee Fund (EAGGF) of the EU, which used to fund the CAP has been replaced in 2007 with the European Agricultural Guarantee Fund (EAGF) and the European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development (EAFRD). CAP reform has steadily lowered its share of the EU budget but it still accounts for nearly half of the EU expenditure. France is the biggest beneficiary of the policy by around 20%, followed by Germany and Spain (~13% each), Italy (~11%) and the UK (~9%).

    • Replies: @By-tor
  273. @jilles dykstra

    Let’s take your first example, the invention of the steam-powered railroad. And here, the relevant counter-point is India.
    Britain invented railroads in the early 1800’s, building on the Watt steam engine from a few decades earlier. The cost of these inventions was relatively small. By the standards of the day, it was hardly a moon-shot. So how much do you propose is fair to extract for these patents ?

    The more important point, found, for example in Jared Diamond’s 1997 book, “Guns, Germs, and Steel”, is that any real appreciation has to look at the larger context. The emergence of railroads required a steel industry and a need to haul products and people over longer distances. India had an excellent technology for bronze foundries and the world’s best cannons in the latter half of the 1700’s. But not steel, as this was also a series of European innovations. Also, prior to the English colonization which ended the small principalities of India, there was no need to haul much of anything over long distances. England built the steel industries of the Crown Colony and today the Indian railroad is one of the world’s largest employers.

    But what happened in between ? Millions of Indians were intentionally starved to death in the 1860-1975 period. I’m outta time, gotta run, but you can look it up. It’s not clear that India as a whole really benefitted from England and her railroads. Note that these railroads were hardly a “gift”; railroads were a tool of colonial imperialism, the better to haul out goods and haul in troops.

  274. peterAUS says:

    You appear to know quite a bit about the region and write without the usual “Balkans attitude” (“my side 100 % right”).
    So, O.T. question, if I may:
    What’s likely going to happen, in your opinion, with “North Kosovo” in foreseeable future, regarding this latest with “Kosovo Security Force”, flags etc?
    I’ve run a couple of scenarios and all feel bad, either way you cut it.
    Serbs are in a very peculiar position.
    More importantly, it’s about destruction of a very sense of nationality. The core, IMHO, of what’s happening today.
    They, Serbs, were laboratory for “humanitarian intervention”; now they are the same about how to destroy a nation.

    And…hehe….another one (now, it’s tricky, so will understand if you tell me to fu$k of):
    Who gave Beara that order? The (kangaroo) court pins that, of course, on Mladic, but I am not quite sure it was him.
    My take:nobody gave the direct order, actually. It was, more likely, along the lines of “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?” over drinks in HQ before the operation. Dynamics of the time and place and, especially, Beara’s personality, filled the rest.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  275. EugeneGur says:
    @Anon 2

    whoever controls Poland controls Europe.

    Is this supposed to be a joke? Just because is are in a way to some place, doesn’t mean you control anything or anyone even cares about the place they have to cross. Poland’s always had ambitions totally disproportionate to its actual weight.

    Just one look at the number of times the occupying powers competed over Warsaw between 1795 and 1945 is enough to convince anyone that many groups are irrationally attached to Poland – Russians, Germans, Jews, and of course the Polish.

    Nobody competed over Warsaw; Poland suffered the fate it did simply because its policies were always aggressive and shortsighted, a.k.a. stupid, at the same time. It always managed to aggravate both Russia and Germany (as it’s doing now), with predictable results. And you still haven’t learned anything, which is remarkable.

    Poland has always had the propensity to back the wrong horse as it’s doing now siding with the US against its European neighbors. And if you have security concerns – legitimate, no doubt – it’s unwise, to say the least, to work so tirelessly to undermine the interests of your your neighbors, not to mention irritating them by constant petty provocations, particularly over things long past.

    • Agree: Cyrano, AnonFromTN
    • Replies: @Nawi
    , @Cyrano
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  276. m___ says:

    The above is not a bad analysis, and applies to the failure of the Soviet Union. It is expressed in fairly complex English syntax, and much of it is allusion.

    It does not entirely describe the present situation, however.

    Till there, we concur, and thanks for pasting some coherence back onto the initial comment. Again, to “understand” an argument, the explaining, and the capacity to absorb of the audience is almost a half – half equation. The general strategy used by public writing is to bow to the latter, thus taking out all added value and bow to convention “with a twist”. If one prefers, public writing is about page-views, Patreon, selling out at the right moment and time to some opportunistic worldview. Not envisioning anything in a “new” way, adding some insight out of the conventional, elaborate status-quo.

    As to the second part of your comment, below “present situation”, we cannot stat, this needs more discussion, and background. “Are you capable to put some coherence of your own?”. Glad to have your quality comment attached to ours.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  277. peterAUS says:

    As for this:

    ..peterAUS has displayed vastly more knowledge of the Yugoslav War and realities in his posting.

    sounds flattering, but it isn’t.
    Does point to fundamental problem today. Lazy ignorance.

    I can’t think of any recent armed conflict which is better researched and documented. The thing in Hague proves that.
    Add to it Internet and one can dissect an event down to spent small arms ammunition.
    Everything needed to get a very good understanding about all of it is publicly available.

    The problem, of course, is spending some time and effort on that.

    This character, Ilyana/whatever, for example. She is at least interested in the subject. Most of people aren’t. And she has no idea.So, most of people even less.

    And that’s the problem.
    How to fix it I have no idea. Probably even not possible.

    Makes you think, a?

    • Replies: @Epigon
  278. Nawi says:

    “Poland has always had the propensity to back the wrong horse” Bingo, Poland has always been on the wrong side of history, right now again and they even think they are quite important.

  279. Nawi says:
    @rafael martorell

    These people north of the Pirineos keep repeating their own lies in front of the mirror and they even believe what they say. Paciencia.

  280. Cyrano says:

    Poland has always suffered from delusions of grandeur complex. Sandwiched between two powerful neighbors like Germany and Russia, any normal nation would choose to cozy up to one of them in order to fight off the unwanted romantic advances from the other. Instead the Polish morons always choose to enter a d*ck measuring contest with Russia and Germany – only to find out that they are eunuchs in comparison with them.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  281. cassandra says:

    I don’t doubt what you say in the least. I also vaguely recall reports about CIA transport flights from Afghanistan to Bosnia, but can’t cite one at the moment. But over the years I have come across numerous reports documenting the role of foreign jihadists in the Balkans, nearly all underreported in the mainstream media. Here’s one discussing the role of jihadists within and from Europe that adds a few more angles:

    Indeed, some of the most important factors behind the contemporary radicalization of European Muslim youth can be found in Bosnia-Herzegovina, where the cream of the Arab mujahideen from Afghanistan tested their battle skills in the post-Soviet era and mobilized a new generation of pan-Islamic revolutionaries.


    IMHO, no movement on this scale can be spontaneous. At least some of the vast oil wealth of Saudi Arabia must be supporting such activity, held by Wahhabists having an interest of promoting radical Islam. Madrassas have been run in Southeast Asia since the 90’s for poor children, which feed, clothe, and train their students. Mosques are being built in Europe, very large ones, quite beyond the financial resources of local muslim communities. Obviously, a deep well of funds is available to promote jihad, and we have seen their fruits not only in Bosnia, but more recently in promoting ISIS in Syria.

    This is not to deny that the CIA provides substantial support. Nor to forget that Israeli hospitals were treating members of ISIS. But I think of the CIA and Israel like the giants in the movie Prometheus, who weaponized biological monstrosities, only to have their creations turn on them. Truly evil hubris.

    Next time you visit your mother’s grave, there’s no need to swear; just make a quiet prayer.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  282. m___ says:

    The above is not a bad analysis, and applies to the failure of the Soviet Union. It is expressed in fairly complex English syntax, and much of it is allusion.

    It does not entirely describe the present situation, however.

    Till there, we concur, and thanks for pasting some coherence back onto the initial comment. Again, to “understand” an argument, the explaining, and the capacity to absorb of the audience is almost a half – half equation. The general strategy used by public writing is to bow to the latter, thus taking out all added value and bow to convention “with a twist”. If one prefers, public writing is about page-views, Patreon, selling out at the right moment and time to some opportunistic worldview. Not envisioning anything in a “new” way, adding some insight out of the conventional, elaborate status-quo.

    As to the second part of your comment, below “present situation”, we cannot stat, this needs more discussion, and background. “Are you capable to put some coherence of your own?”. Glad to have your quality comment attached to ours.

  283. @EugeneGur

    Polish give a birth to most marvelous thing: POLISH JOKES.

  284. @Epigon

    I am sorry I was too fast. I did not even noticed that you are confirming what I was saying.

  285. @Cyrano

    Only one nation beats Poland in terms of backing the wrong horse: Ukraine. Since Mazepa decided to back Swedes, whom Peter the Great smeared over the wall, they chose the winning side only once: they were against Napoleon (Poles chose the wrong side at that time). Looks like severe inferiority complex, more than delusions of grandeur, is the driving force in both cases.

  286. peterAUS says:

    I swear on Mothers grave that what I did write there it is true. I did have discussion with Jihadists,
    (probably Chechens) and they did tell me that going to Bosnia was a mistake.)
    I only did presume that they did not got there walking. And if they were from three countries somebody must have organize it, Who other could organize it if not CIA.
    And there is jut that collusion with US bombing campaign.

    Listen…..lady (I am trying, hard, to be a gentleman here; yes I know…).

    If….IF….you want to get at least a little beginner understanding of the war in Bosnia, start with:
    You have online copy of it, too.

    In meantime, re CIA and Mujahedin/foreign people. Oh, BTW, you didn’t mention IRAN here as well. I mean, Iranian effort (advisors, advanced antitank systems and such) delivered, by…hahahah…Americans….to Muslim forces in Bosnia. To fight against Serbs, that is.

    Those “foreigners” were insignificant. Yes, there were some of them and they were quite vicious but, re war effort they were nothing.

    What gave Muslims the victory in Bosnia was the regime in Washington (read Clintons). The “muscle” come from there. The money came from Muslim world all over, mostly from, naturally, Saudi Arabia. But…as I said, Iran too.

    And, what made the real difference on the ground were Croats. The regular Croatian Army which worked, together, with Muslims, against Serbs. NATO high-tech and air strikes, Croat artillery with some armor, and Muslim infantry. Local Muslims, from Bosnia itself.

    Serbs in Bosnia would’ve taken care of all of those “foreign” Muslim forces in one afternoon.

    Against all those forces arrayed against them then and then, well…….no chance.

    Now…hehehe…that’s the (recent) past and not that important.

    What is important, ONLY, is: do Western Europeans, even Croats, have some doubts about their involvement then and there?

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Talha
  287. Cyrano says:

    Serbia had no allies in the Bosnia war. I heard some Russian volunteers made it to the front – not enough to make a difference.

    But you – my Croatishe degenerishe comradishe should know better than to gloat about the temporary successes of the (un)holly Croat-Muslim alliance.

    You should know better, because in the Balkans nothing is ever forgotten and memories last forever. When the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia’s favor (and it will – it’s inevitable) you are in for some major whooping of you’re a*ses, both you and your allies – the Muslims.

    At the end I would just say that your alliance was well conceived – Croatia is one of the most fanatical catholic countries in the world – and I don’t mean this as a compliment. Their Catholicism is of a jihadi type – they’ve shown that in WW2 – a jihad against the Serbs.

    So perhaps it was only fitting that you got together with the Bosnian Muslims – another jihadi prone non-entity, who in comparison with you, are actually civilized – they have never engaged in barbarities on the scale catholic loving Croatians have.

  288. peterAUS says:

    When the geopolitical situation changes in Serbia’s favor (and it will – it’s inevitable) you are in for some major whooping of you’re a*ses, both you and your allies – the Muslims.

    Got it. Your take, that is.
    When the regime in Pristinaa annexes, in full, those enclaves of yours in Kosovo, North in particular, you’ll do nothing. Nothing of significance, that is.

    Of course, inevitably you’ll get all that back when that geopolitical change happens.
    Sounds as a plan.

    B.T.W., what’s your take, as (obvious) Serb nationalist, when that change will happen: before or after you lose Sanjak?
    Or Presevo valley?

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Simpleguest
  289. Malacaay says:

    Who is a Slovene, Russky? Are you referring to Slavs or Slavic people the Slovenians? Notions of backwardness and undiscipline of the Serbs you put forth is right… to some extent, but it has nothing to do with the rule of the Turks over Serbs for almost 5 centuries. Serbs come from the same geographical latitude as the Khazars, Scythians, Sarmatians — the very same place: land between the Caspian and Black Seas (Serbs are from the area of capital of Khazars – city of Itil). It is the same latitude Turks come from btw, only difference being that the Turks come from eastern side the Aral Sea. Serbs are not so different from the Turks. Regarding your insinuation about Vojvodina, you show there even basic lack of knowledge. Serbs make 66% of population, and that numero refers to the time after the Serbs from Croatia settled there. A historical note, after the WW2, Tito expelled c.300.000 Germans from Vojvodina, and Germans have always been the most productive people relative to others. Vojvodina has always been quite different part of Serbia, because of large number of other ethnic groups, it has nothing to do with the rule of Habsburgs vs Ottomans. Yea Serbs fought for their freedom from the Turks savagely for many centuries and they were all alone, so Turks punished them for their attempts to free themselves dearly. Andric wrote about it, yes.

    Having said that, Serbs also contain our blood, as they assimilated our Illyrian people, eastern tribes, after they came here in the 7th or 8th century. So Serbs contain a lot of noble blood both from our Illyrian bloodline and possibly from their Scythian/Sarmatian bloodline also; and they proved it by producing one of the best innovators world has ever known, if not the best – Nikola Tesla. You Russkies on the other hand… people who have historically outnumbered both Germans and French combined, haven’t even managed to produce a single such heavyweight scientific figure even though you outnumber the tiny Serbs how many times over? You are almost a worthless culture (the only thing you ever had going for your is military strength, nothing else really) just like all those cultures of the steppes: great warriors, but next to worthless civilizations. Really, you Slavics of all people should speak softly when putting your names forward, the same as your le French friends should (they have not produced anyone of worth save Blaise Pascal, and as civilization, their weight is similar to that of Spaniards: Greeks and Persians have managed to achieve much greater things in their time). You come from people whose male younglings desire to be thugs whence they grow up, whereas females wish to become whores.

  290. @cassandra

    Thank you very much. I do love you, Please IMHO could you tel me the words it stands for?

  291. @Cyrano

    Putin will be visiting Belgrade. But you probably know that.

  292. @Catiline

    I’m not a Postmodernist.

    followed by

    Never said all words are empty, but yours certainly are.

    I’d say you are one.
    * anti-realist. No attempt to appeal to reality, rather to attempts at establishing truth by contempt (as above). Such attempts also seem to be a consistent part of your comment history.
    * Words a social constructs — you don’t believe my words have meaning, therefore they could have none. You don’t, in fact, believe that any words have a relation to reality, being an anti-realist Implication is that words are weapons, having no use outside of dominance contests. By saying my words have no power as weapons, you try to win the dominance contest.
    * Your words are used as weapons, not a way of meeting on common ground. Example: “Never said all words are empty”. I said that you believed all words were empty, not that you explicitly said so. Again, words as weapons, having no connection with reality. Your phrase has no connection with any reality except a social reality, and (as weapons) don’t need it.

    Again (audience), postmodernists typically have never heard of postmodernism, believe they have thought up the entire intellectual technique (while simultaneously believing in social constructs), and tend to attack by demonstrating commitment and contempt. Postmodernism is, properly, a form of Gnosticism [1]. Gnostics pretty much always act with contempt to those without their holy knowledge.

    To be a bit sympathetic, almost everybody is brought up to believe in postmodernism’s main tenants. Many people, possibly including Catiline, do not like the current situation, but believe they can change it to something better by commitment and conflict.

    Unfortunately, that only makes things worse, in part because it is still anti-realist and anti-individualist, and regards words as weapons first, last, and always. As one sees in third world countries, passionate commitment and dominance by a single social group that can dominate but nothing else — well, it simply hurts people. Champion example being Cambodia.
    For a second example, consider Vietnam. Long war, many dead, “Born in the North to die in the South” a common tattoo during the war, and what did they get for it all those dead people? They’re just another commodity exporting country now. Not a Utopia, not even Communist.

    One could also talk about what a coalition of passionately committed people in the EU and the US has accomplished.

    Some modesty might help, but it’s in short supply. In the meantime, we’re all faced with a choice between war and slaughter.

    This is turning into a field guide to postmodernist crunches. Watch this space.



    • Replies: @Catiline
  293. Factorize says:

    Two factors related to intelligence/functional ability- environmental lead and the metabolic dysfunction/diet epidemic- should be mentioned.

    It is now almost beyond comprehension that leaded gas was legally available in many nations through the 1990s. The damage that this has had on the cognitive ability of generations of people are all to obvious. For example, American prisons are now beginning to empty out as there is a near collapse in imprisonment in the younger cohorts who were not exposed to lead, while the percentage of prisoners exposed to lead contamination (roughly those born before 2000 in many developed nations) is rapidly increasing.

    Those with prediabetes or diabetes (which includes half of the American population) are at extremely elevated risk of a wide range of illnesses. The health burdens and functional limitations that result are constraining much of the modern world from fulfilling its full potential.

    Developing nations would be well-advised to carefully consider these and other wrong-turns by the developed world on their path to “catchup” with developed nations.

  294. @m___

    Writing is hard!!! I don’t do it all that well, either.

    I sometimes think that all public writing is a form of fantasy. That’s one reason I look to science fiction — it’s obviously not about any observable reality. Same with anime — clearly not about humans as they can be seen in daily life. Reduces the chance that I’ll get entrained by the fiction and confuse it with reality. Of course, it also means I’m caught up in the archetypes that both fictional forms use and re-use.

    Public writing is yet another form of fantasy, even when it is seriously meant to be about reality. You mention the audience as a serious part of public writing, and I’m in full agreement. The public writer writes about precisely those things that are _not_ part of the public’s daily experiences. The public is thus unable to judge the veracity of the public writer’s works. (Example — the public’s assumption that “everybody is all right, really” and that “They’re all crooked”, which combine to assume that those in the public eye commit only venal sins). This can coax the public writer to describe a reality in which only venal sins are being committed, although the real sins are monstrous (e.g. committing war crimes on a large scale).

    Taking that as a starting point, let’s try for more discussion and background, as you suggest. Here’s more of something that might be discussion and background:

    I’ve looked behind the curtain a few times, not many, but enough to see a pattern. Universities (high and low end, research and teaching), NASA, news media, DOD, software, the Moral Majority, etc. In each case the formal and public goals, the exoteric goals, of the organization were not the esoteric goals of the organization. The esoteric goals were always the same: survival.
    A paraphrase from one of Laumer’s Retief stories captured it nicely:
    Anonymous Embassy staff member: “Well, if we’re not on the alien’s side, and we’re not on our public’s side, whose side are we on?”
    Ambassador Oldtrick: “Our own, of course.”


    The US after WW II fits the “lucky fool” [1] or the “holy fool” [2] depending on how you want to look at it. It appears, as Ron Unz has pointed out, that WW II was the result of a grand strategic plan initiated by Lenin and brought to fruition by Stalin. The basic plan was to have the West re-fight WW I, completely ruin itself, and be reorganized by the Red Army. Under this plan, Hitler was a catspaw, who was handed Germany by a deliberate Communist defeat, and who was set up by the Soviet offer of Polish partition. Hitler was, of course, his own grand strategist, and a fairly good one. Good enough, in fact, to spoil Stalin’s plan by striking about two weeks before Stalin would have [3]. Hitler attacks about a year too late to win, but just in time to kill enough Soviet troops that Stalin only conquers half of Europe, and Russia is bled so dry that it accomplishes nothing more than gradual decay after Hitler’s, emerging only in the early 2000s still not completely recovered from WW II.

    In the meantime, over the Atlantic, FDR was also playing Grand Strategist. He started re-arming during the early New Deal. Without that preparation, which put in place the capital goods and shipyards needed for rapid expansion, the US Navy could not have prevailed in both Atlantic and Pacific during WW II. FDR took quite a few other steps to prepare. So did the War Department, which moved fighting officers into command slots before the US entered WW II. Other than a program of “preparedness”, support for the UK, and opposition to Japan, FDR seems to have had no plan other than to engage and defeat the enemy. He couldn’t even do that quickly or easily — and Imperial Japan not bombed Pearl Harbor, and if Hitler hadn’t declared war on the US, the us might just have stayed out of WW II.

    So: Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, all played Grand Strategist. All lost heavily, usully through idiotic oversights: Lenin — expanding the Bolsheviki with Russian natives, who took over. Stalin: making an army that was all offense and no defense, then ignoring Wehrmacht preparations to attack. Hitler: establishing a welfare state that depended on robbing one group to enrich another, but not building the military force to rob on the scale needed, but instead relying on bluff. Mussolini: believing that the Italian Army was a first class fighting force. The only winner was FDR, who won by a timing that was the result of US reluctance to go to war, and of course on building capital goods first, then weapons. Stalin had also emphasized capital goods first, then war, but it hadn’t saved him.

    In short, FDR was a middling Grand Strategist, but he was also lucky.

    But try to tell the US public that, and try telling the US leadership that. Hubris reigned back then, and it still does.

    It’s like the US emerged from WW II in a dream (look at Disney’s work back then), one that needn’t be backed up by reality because reality was the Cold War, a USSR with nuclear weapons and (although we didn’t know it) a keen sense of the bluff. Better to stay in the dream and pretend (hope) that the system established during WW II would again save us. I’ve heard Edwardian England (right before WW I) compared to a dream, and I’m comparing the US to a dream in the same way.

    Many in the US are still in the same dream, supporting the establishment. However, most organizations are not in the dream. They are instead exploiting it. Part of the dream was that the US could defeat Communism by converting everybody to the free market, or something similar. To dream that, one had to believe that everybody was potentially a Westerner, with the Western set of abilities and interests. It seemed, back then, as if the alternatives were (a) Dreaming a belief in identical capabilities or (b) waging thermonuclear central war. The US picked dreaming, and many are still picking dreaming, even if the dream is getting a nightmare tinge.

    There were groups that did not pick the dream. These groups instead exploited it. The New Left essentially threatened to destroy the post-WW II dream if they were not put in power, and to continue the dream if they were put in power. A good part of the Postmodernist power today is that anti-realism and anti-individualism implies that one can live in a dream (there is no reality, so everything is a bit like a dream) without being responsible for the choice (because groups make choices, and the nonexistent individual doesn’t and can’t) or risking the end of the dream (no reality). All that is required is to be nice (favor an egalitarian society) and quiet (check your privilege).

    And that’s pretty much what I’ve seen. Quite a few of these group managers think of themselves as suborned dreamers (as “being realistic”) rather than postmodernist crunchies or agents. Also, they all cooperate to keep competent Enlightenment people out of their organizations. Competent Enlightenment people “rock the boat” to use a 1950’s phrase.

    This is why the establishment, including establishment leadership that doesn’t believe the dream, can’t get rid of Trump. Even the Establishment skeptical leadership that does not believe in the dream still lives off of it. Trump is not in the dream, the Establishment cannot leave the dream. Trump is a creature of reality (like another divine or lucky fool: the protagonist in _Idiocracy_) . The dreamers can’t do more than dream, Trump is metaphorically the cold hillside upon which the dreamers fear to wake. Eventually, either the hillside wins and the dreamers wake, or else the dreamers die in their sleep, possibly with a bit of help.

    So here we sit, surrounded by dreamers, maybe we dream a bit ourselves. Many of the dreamers murmur insults as they sleep. Some of them sleepwalk and have a nasty tendency to mob, and so have to be avoided; perhaps they are the archetypes of zombies. Others just sort of lie there and smile. And there are others who don’t dream, Morlocks to the Eloi. And Damn, but this hillside is cold!


    1] Joe Bunting.
    “The Most Important Character Archetype”

    2] Danna Heller.
    “Holy Fools, Secular Saints, and illiterate Saviors in American Literature and Popular Culture”.
    Purdue University, 2003.
    ISSN 1481-4374.

    3] Viktor Suvarov et. al.
    Suvarov makes a very good case. See his presentation at the US Naval Academy on

    • Replies: @m___
  295. Talha says:

    From inside the Muslim community’s vantage point, this is what was going on. The mobilization was Ummah-wide. The foreigners were mostly Arab mujahideen (many veterans of Afghanistan, some stuck around in Bosnia and married local women) as well as Iran (yes Sunnis and Shias were cooperating often during this time, see Nagorno-Karabakh as well) and other places (I met a guy many years back that was Cham and had fought in the area). Chechens made a showing, but don’t know how significant.

    Majority of the manpower was local, though, no doubt.

    If the CIA was involved, it was either looking the other way or facilitating money movement – funds were being raised openly (not just for relief/medicine, but supporting the mujahideen) across the Muslim world. Don’t know if Turkey did, but could have easily made movement and transport possible.

    As for Serbs being able to easily clean up foreign mujahideen; I don’t know about that. Some brothers had videos that were snuck out of that area – guys used to sit down in groups and watch them. There were plenty showing mujahideen planning on taking specific Serb positions, carrying out the operations and the end result with a good amount of lifeless Serb soldiers strewn about. But again, you are right, they weren’t that many so they may have been reserved as shock troops.

    Again, we are talking Bosnia (which was – not the later Kosovo conflict) when the mujahideen were truly international and al-Qaeda hadn’t taken shape yet.


    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Epigon
  296. peterAUS says:

    From inside the Muslim community’s vantage point, this is what was going on.

    Don’t say.

    Majority of the manpower was local, though, no doubt.

    Yep. Around 99.99 %.

    If the CIA was involved, it was either looking the other way or facilitating money movement – funds were being raised openly (not just for relief/medicine, but supporting the mujahideen) across the Muslim world.

    It was involved and a bit more than that. But, again, not a big deal in overall picture. A small deal, actually.
    The big deal, done by US Administration (during the rein of Clintons) was:
    Sanctions imposed on the Milosevic regime/Serbs/Yugoslavs/whatever.
    Arranging the cooperation between Croatian and Muslim forces.

    Don’t know if Turkey did, but could have easily made movement and transport possible.

    Yes it did. Again, not a big deal.

    As for Serbs being able to easily clean up foreign mujahideen; I don’t know about that.

    I do.

    As for those videos, yes, I believe I’ve seen all of them. Impressive a?
    For amateurs.
    We are talking either about sharp short raids on remote positions manned by elderly Serb militia or a small part of corps level effort by Muslim forces. Those mujs acting as shock/assault detachments of platoon size, within that, corps, effort. As you say:

    But again, you are right, they weren’t that many so they may have been reserved as shock troops.

    Yep. Platoon size. Up to 80 men, tops. In an effort of 20 – 30 000 men.

    Bottom line, they were insignificant in that game, in military sense. In psychological, political sense, yes, they were important.
    As Western volunteers in Croatian forces and Orthodox volunteers in Serbian forces.

    And, the only important, really: without US …..ahm…”input” then and there all that in Bosnia would’ve been quite different.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @Epigon
    , @Talha
  297. Cyrano says:

    So, the Serbs have no plan and the Croats have one – right? What plan is that – to be empires bitches? Not a bad plan at all, considering that the Croats have no other meaningful qualifications.

    The only bad thing in this scenario is that the Croats usually bring bad luck to empires. First there was the Austro-Hungarian empire – the Croats were as obedient as you can imagine, and then the Serbs got funny idea about liberating them.

    This offended the Croats immensely, because you see, they have standards. They don’t want to be ruled by Serbs, they want to be ruled by someone from the west who can appreciate what a nice little bitches they are. Thankfully the reign of the Serbs over the Croats (that’s the way they see it) lasted only 23 years.

    Then the thousand year Reich came to the rescue, and the Croats again had worthy masters. Then the 3rd Reich folded way sooner than the advertised 1000 year mark and the poor Croats had to endure the indignity of cohabiting in the same country with other less worthy Slavs. This was a little bit longer stretch – the new arrangement lasted twice as long as the previous one – 46 years. Now they are back in their familiar role – submissive little female canines to worthy masters.

    Unfortunately again, it looks like the 1000 year democracy might be headed the same way as the 1000 year Reich went. I am telling you, Croats bring bad luck to empires, this is their 3rd one in a little more than a hundred years which has claimed ownership over them, and it doesn’t look like it has a lot of mileage left, same as the previous two.

    At the end I’ll share a little story with you. In my spare time I developed a neat little theory: Stupidity is evil. The Croats are perfect example that my theory is correct.

  298. @peterAUS

    “B.T.W., what’s your take, as (obvious) Serb nationalist, when that change will happen: before or after you lose Sanjak?
    Or Presevo valley?

    Or say Croatia losing Istria and parts of Dalmatia to Italy or the north plains to, say Hungary, in some, granted at the moment not very likely, but still probable future.

    You see, you dumb fucks (both of you) the whole idea of Yugoslavia was to prevent something like this from ever happening.

    But, talking about idiots.

  299. Epigon says:

    There won’t be any legal agreements, the Serb leadership is buying time and stalling with the North Kosovo nonsense and “border correction”. By itself, the most valuable are Serb Orthodox churches and monasteries, followed by Trepča mines and Gazivode lake/plant. Even better, a significant part of the Metohija is legally owned by Serb Orthodox Church, so if Kosovo is ever to become a fully recognized and internationally viable state, private property rights would have to be restored – this will never happen, of course.
    De facto – Serb North Kosovo has been a thing since the beginning, the same way de facto Kosovo* was not Serbian since 1999/2000. De iure, the resolution 1244 and Camp Bondsteel ensure a stalemate.

    Funnily enough, Americans have been obtaining transit and SOFA agreements with Serbia since 2005, ratifying them again in 2014. – to cover all bases, as Serbia views Bondsteel on de iure Serbian territory.

    There was no order regarding Srebrenica – some shady shit was involved, with the notorious legal practice of giving the executors (a Croat, a Slovenian!!, a Bosniak and some Serbs from a shady (Tenth diversionary detachment)) unit legal protection and minor sentences while throwing the blame on political and military leadership of Serbs. The irony is that Mladić himself visited the civilians that were evacuated from Srebrenica on buses, and not a single of them was executed – despite that, the initial 2000 something dead found in international probe and digging grew over time to 8000 and a genocide.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  300. Epigon says:

    At this point in time, the entirety of Yugoslav war chronology can be reconstructed. From Kohl and Genscher lobbying the Benelux, Scandinavia, Vatican and Anglos to back Slovenia and Croatia, to Brioni meeting internationalizing the crisis in 1991, to BND ferrying WP and DDR weapons to Slovenia and Croatia, supplemented with Armbrusts and other toys in 1990 and 1991.

    More importantly, the confusing part where Bosniaks were goaded into a suicidal war after their later generals served in Croatia in 1991 on Yugoslav/Serb side, and after they declined the already negotiated Filipović-Karadžić agreement, followed by stubborn refusal of Carrington-Cutileiro, Vance- Owen and other peace proposals, points to deep foreign meddling.

    The final piece of the puzzle of understanding is to acknowledge that Croats attacked designated UNPA zones in 1995, with no consequences – in fact, advised by US generals acting as advisors.

  301. m___ says:

    Reply to commenter Counterinsurgency

    As all great thoughts, shaped by words, the toolbox is partly your own customization, a skeleton to grasp and capture the essential. Another tool is “jumps”, you made a few lock-steps ones. Associative thinking at it’s best!

    Our tangent, reading is faster then writing, listening is slower then reading, then again speaking beats writing.
    From these a lot can be explored as to the who-is of the listener and the writer or speaker alike, it explains away part of human behaviour. It might even refer to why the Bible, and the Koran do not have a single clown?

    Back to your logic of things.

    Dreams and clowns.

    Literature, fiction, and actors away from the power “salons”. …To grasp the “dream of the real”, the many, only slight variants, we fellow humans are entwined into. Your tools to explain away the tarball of reality is refreshing. The example to put it to the test, WWII, appropriate, since the scenario runs for over a century.
    Better then fiction.

    Always anew amazing how to get to explore the periphery of the dreams of convention, the comforts of ordinary. These asynchronous, and locationally different live paths, seem to lead a few individuals to the core understandings that are relevant, timely, and …un communicable. Your pathway seems out of the ordinary.

    Again on a tangent, to associate capable individuals, a “potential” elite, to build an in group that matters, could be the core of innovation, the thing AI (a force multiplier of dream inducing), genetics of biology (a possible make-over of the human hardware, not sure if this comes to realize and how, the knowledge part does not match the low side of teaching about it) to throw the dream against…

    Always within your terminology …could produce “the next dream” (as compared to Washington speak of “the next big thing”), standing a chance to make reality better then it’s sublimation. The reverse is tested and true, a reality that needs sublimation to make it comestible, there is no lack of it.

    Ultimately a reduction of the world population, social engineering, at best, if not plain brute, as to individual engineering, is nothing else then another case of dream thinking, regardless of acceptable tools to make the case in practical terms.

    Darwin is probably the most mainstream example of thinking out of the blue, the dream, and being pulled into science. There should indeed be some out of the blue, “ex-nihilo”, conceptualizing, and it needs majoring comprehension, a rewiring of “elite” and “public” alike. You made a best case for dreaming.

    As for us, having tasted a glimpse of your express venue ways, they stand!

    “Damn, but this hillside is cold!”

  302. Epigon says:

    I might have to correct you – El Mujahid unit by itself was entirely foreign manpower and 7th Muslim (Mountain) Brigade had integral Jihadist subunits.

    As much as 6 9/11 attackers served in El Mujahid and/or were trained in Bosnian camps.

    Remember, the following pictures are of the 7th Brigade of Bosniak Army, not El Mujahid, parading in city streets in 1994, when USA and Britain sponsored the cessation of hostilities between Croats and Bosniaks, and forging of an alliance.

    At least a couple of thousands during combat operations.
    Bosniaks had 100+ thousand soldiers throughout the war, and suffered the most losses. They admitted 30+ thousand KIA, but the more interesting detail lies in their civilian losses statistics: 90+% of their 30 something thousand killed “civilians” were military age men, while other combatants in Yugoslav war have civilian casualties reflecting the demographic reality – women, elderly, minors etc.
    This is of course due to West sponsored counting, and exactly the same way we encountered “armed civilians killed” in Syria narrative.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  303. Epigon says:

    A quick glimpse upon the geographic location of Bosniak strongholds reveals they were isolated from the outside world.

    This is where the West comes into play. The suppossed “Siege of Sarajevo” was a joke, with western observes maintaining a vigilant watch over the food, water, gas, electricity supply.
    Even better, in 1993, during the supposed Siege of Sarajevo by Serbs, vast Bosniak forces exited Sarajevo and attacked Croats HVO in central Bosnia, pushing them back and commiting some heinous warcrimes.

    So, while Croats were getting beheaded, the West made sure that Croatia didn’t interfere with foreign Islamists arriving to Bosnia through Croatia, nor tried to stop military and civilian supplies to Bosniaks coming through Croatian ports and roads.

    The vermin like Amanpour and Levy made their name in Bosnia, naturally. Really, the only real lesson of Yugoslav war is that when faced with total distortion and demonization that ensures you will be sentenced after the war, you might as well live up to the narrative and go the extra mile.
    You know, like the supposedly pedantic and very efficient Germans somehow failed to kill and kept feeding millions of people to survive until liberation.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  304. Epigon says:

    Did you ever take a look at the map?
    Do tell me, how did those fine gentlemen and the vast amounts of supplies and military equipment reach ABiH in 1992-1994?
    After Croat-Bosniak war ended, it wouldn’t be a problem, but before that, the Bosniaks were surrounded on all sides by hostile Croats and Serbs. And somehow survived – not only that, tried breakthroughs, offensives and territory grabing?

    Also, the roots of Al-Qaeda and Western meddling go a lot deeper, as can be witnessed at this useful link for everyone to enjoy.

    • Replies: @Talha
  305. Malacaay says:

    Wtf are you on about, Orthodox degenerate? Serbs came as refugees in Croatia, Slavonia and dalmatia, and started claiming it was Serbia. O how Habsburgs gave it to them and what not. it wasn’t Habsburgs land to give; nobody can give either Pannonian (Croatian and Slavonian) or our Dalmatian land to the Serbois, least of all Habsburgs — kings of the Ostrogoths. Anyhow, Serbois found asylum, and spit in our face with their claims of Serbian land. There was never any kind of a formal alliance between us and the Bosnians. We just had common enemy who wished to colonize us and take out land. Catholicism jihadi type, hmm, Orthodox filth? Funny, I don’t recall any of us Catholics coming to Serbian land, establishing our churches there and trying to take their land, but I do recall, vividly, how Serbs have ever tried to spread themselves. They came to our land, we didn’t come to theirs. And they behaved most disgracefully having no respect for the people the land belongs to. I can say that Russky Orthodoxs are very much the same: always bitching about how “evil” Catholics wanted to subjugate them, yet show such sympathy to those they subjugated and whose land they stole and whose religions and cultures they destroyed pushing their Russian culture and Orthodox religion onto them, colonizing them. No, indeed. How did Russkies become such a vast county, hmm? Not by sword, right? Russkies don’t do that. Russkies are victims. In regards to your Orthodox brothers Serbois, we didn’t even come to them. We never tried to conquer them, catholicize them or destroy their culture. We let them be. it was them who came to us pushing their culture and their religion onto us… the same as Russkies have done to countless people they conquered and destroyed during their Orthodox onslaught. Don’t bark, cry or howl, Orthodox dog. You will find no sympathy here.

  306. apollonian says: • Website

    “Cyrano” seems to be quite the Jew, actually, though he pretends to be “Slav”: I asked him what was his religion, and he said it was “Bolshevik.” “Cyrano” is ever declaiming about socialism and against “capitalism” which he obviously knows nothing about, spouting mere idiot platitudes.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  307. Talha says:

    They served a similar purpose in Afghanistan against the Russians and were fairly small in numbers. Most of the fighting was done by local people. An Egyptian brother who went to Afghanistan to fight stayed with me as a temporary roommate for a few days and we talked about his experience. He wanted to fight, but they wouldn’t let him because he was a doctor and they needed him to take of the wounded. He had photos of some of the injuries he was doing field surgery on.

    Went on to move his family to Japan as a surgeon there; learned Japanese and everything.

    By far, the best English speaker that can give the most details on who the foreign mujahideen were in Bosnia and what they were used for is Ismail Royer who went to fight there from the US:


    • Replies: @peterAUS
  308. Malacaay says:

    Try to imagine a situation in which Turks give everything they once owned to their fellow Bosnians. That’s how Serbs view their permission to settle in Croatia and Slavonia by the Habsburgs. You have to understand that only our northern part of Dalmatia (northern Liburnia, around city of Rijeka) was under Austro-Hungarian occupation, we have spent centuries under Venetian suzerainty, never had anything to do with the stinking central Europeans Huns and Ostrogoths. And much of our background land was occupied by the Turks even longer than our northern coast by the Ostrogoth-Hunns. Dalmatia was never part of central European empire of Ostrogoths and Huns just like it was never Croatia. We share the political union, the state with the Croats and the Slavonians, but we are no Carpathian Slavic dogs. Speaking of Carpathian Slavic dogs, watch and observe Russkies your fellow Slavs, let your own eyes be the judge:

    Nazis entering Zagreb, the capital of true croatische kajkavian land:

    Nazis entering Maribor, the cultural capital of the Slovenians

    Now entering Germanics into our land, our capital Split

    Now you can see who those Slavic dogs of yours with whom you feel so much kindred with are, Russkies. You ought to learn who you are at last: you are no Slavs, you are just people which have been colonized into Russky culture, nothing more. Slavs have generally been Germanic dogs, slaves and vassals of Germanics – that’s what Slavs have been since the time before the Christ. Slavs shall find no acceptance in Illyrian lands anymore. Slavs are invaders.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  309. Epigon says:

    Your historical ignorance is in full agreement with your identity.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  310. Talha says:

    Not sure, if you have definitive proof or CIA funded airlifts, I don’t mind admitting it happened. As far as countries being closed off during war time; borders are porous to determined men wanting to fight and trucks willing to pay enough bribes.

    Thanks for the link. Yes, al-Qaeda probably formed its core earlier but was not able to definitively take over the network Shaykh Abdullah Azzam helped found until much later. Even during the Nairobi embassy attack, al-Qaeda’s leadership was divided. After that, it became less and less a foreign-legion type group and more of a terrorist organization.

    If you would have seen the videos I saw out of Bosnia, they were trying to recruit volunteers. But they were trying to recruit idealists. They showed the mujahideen praying together, learning the religion, fighting against military units and even how they were treating their prisoners well. The current groups like Daesh purposely recruit nihilists with beheadings galore and rampaging over defenseless civilians.


    • Replies: @peterAUS
  311. Cyrano says:

    Why is the Croatishe degenerishe upsetishe? (See I am even making an effort to address you in your mother tongue – German). All I was asking you to do is to admit that you are people without dignity. Is that so hard to do? You know what I like about the Croats (nothing really), but I appreciate that a true Croat Ustashe would deny that they are Slavs. Instinctively, you know that you are a disgrace to the Slavic race, so at least you have the decency to deny any links to the Slavs. No one else would do that. Not the Ukrainians, not even the Polish. That’s why you are in a category of your own – at the bottom of the evolutionary chain of the Slavs. I am actually starting to enjoy all this – bringing all the Slavs together with the common bond of hatred for each other.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  312. @Malacaay

    You are incorrect or are straight liar. Hungarian came into Europe having their own religion.
    It was Vatican insisting to convert to Catholicism which resulted in civil war, end of which was one third of killed Hungarians. Croatians came into Europe as orthodox christian and they were ones converting to Catholicism by Vatican. Not opposite as you claim. (Although conversion of Croats was bloodless)

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  313. Malacaay says:

    What is ignorant or untrue in my post, Orthodox expansionist? Tell. What exactly is untrue or ignorant as you say there. Orthodoxs will not spread on our land, no more than we shall tolerate Muslims spreading either. This is not your land and not your cultural domain, and it will never be so. End of discussion. But you can go on and bark.

  314. @Malacaay

    Please read Biography of Alexander the Great. You will find there that Philip, Alexanders’s father was trading with surrounding tribes that were Slavic. Usual trade was 10 sheep for one knife.
    And that was 360 years before Christ. And there you will find also that Alexanders mother who did like snakes was actually from Slavic tribe,

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  315. Catiline says:

    anti-realist. No attempt to appeal to reality, rather to attempts at establishing truth by contempt (as above). Such attempts also seem to be a consistent part of your comment history

    I’m the only one who provided any facts germane to this discussion. And they have been ignored by Willie and his partisans,including you. My comment history is not what you say.

    Words a social constructs — you don’t believe my words have meaning, therefore they could have none.

    Hypocritical.You began this discussion asserting my words were devoid of meaning.

    Gnostics pretty much always act with contempt to those without their holy knowledge.

    Contempt is hardly the preserve of Gnostics. And there is more to Gnosticism than common contempt. You yourself seem to be contemptuous of what you call Gnosticism. More hypocrisy.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  316. Malacaay says:

    Btw, do you know what and who you Orthodox degenerates are, hmm? I am willing to bet that you don’t. You an just an extension of Greek political&cultural ambition born a millennia ago. Greeks stole Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium as you know it), colonizing Latin culture and language Byzantium was born on as Roman Empire, into Greek one with Greek language and alphabet. That’s why Byzantium was referred to as “Greek empire” even though it was not Greeks’ — Greeks just stole it. Orthodoxy was born as a product of that theft and colonization. That’s what you Orthodox dogs are: followers of ambition of long dead thieves.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  317. Epigon says:

    Please stop polluting the comment section with your ignorant drivel. You are doing your Catholic/Germanic Janissary of a nation a great disservice.

    • Disagree: apollonian
    • Replies: @Malacaay
  318. Malacaay says:

    I am Dalmatian as is my lingua mater. We Dalmatians were on the winning side, that’s how we managed so save our land. We fought with the Serbois under Tito. But we only fought with, nothing more. Of course we are not Slavs. Illyrians are no Slavic trash. You can see on those videos above who true Slavs are. Nobody is truer Slav and Croat than Slovenians (they were Croats in their Carpathian homeland, before they embarked on invasion). Are you some Slavic dog, hmm? Listen Slavic dog, we only speak language which is classified as southern Slavic lingua. Nothing more. Speaking language doesn’t make me filthy Slav no more than writing on this English language makes me English. Comprendo simpleton, or is that too hard for you to understand?

  319. Malacaay says:

    Slavs came here after the fall of Rome as Germanic dogs, you disgusting, obnoxious, lying Russky woman.

  320. @Malacaay

    Naturally you are out of your cotton picking mind.
    Now you are telling that Roman Empire did precede Greek empire.
    You are simply totally crazy.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  321. Malacaay says:

    I asked you what is untrue in my reply, and you embark on some pathetic mudslinging. You proved my point, you lying simple-minded creature. When you find arguments, do get back, little she-man.

  322. Malacaay says:

    Yea, the man is obviously a mentally challenged simpleton. Never read what the simpleton has previously written, but his posts fall unto category “dumb-and-dumber” as each post seems to be dumber than the previous.

    • Agree: apollonian
  323. Malacaay says:

    Huns came to Europa as invaders of tengri faith, as did Magyars. They were Christianized adopting Catholicism. Croats came as Slavs (as followers of Slavic religion) in 7th century. There was no filthy Orthodoxy in 7th century. Quit lying, pathological woman. You make your Russky kind look despicable.

  324. Malacaay says:

    I am telling you that Byzantium was Eastern Roman Empire. Roman not Greek. Greeks only colonized it, turning it into Greek one, the same way you turned all those Turkic, Altaic, Samoyedic… people into Russkies. You colonized them. I wasn’t talking about Seleucid empire.

  325. Beckow says:

    I didn’t say there was anything wrong with Polish romanticism. Just try to add some rationality. Czechs are particularly ‘germanised’. What outsiders often perceive as ‘germanisms’ is an authentic local culture that both Czechs and some Germans (Austrians, east Germans, to some extent Bavarians) share. It comes from 1,000 years of living next to each other, you scratch a Viennese and you find a Czech.

    You didn’t address my key point: Poland (for all of its recent growth and wonderful features) has again volunteered to be the battering ram to destroy and destabilise Central-Eastern Europe. Their inability to let go off past grievances is painful. Especially given that the grievances go both ways, Poland has been imperial, expansionist and committed its share of mischief. When you repeatedly act as a staging ground for Western crusaders against the east, you will occasionally get clobbered. If you don’t address that key point – Polish militant anti-Russian policies – you are avoiding the 800 pound elephant in the room. Why is Poland so self-defeating? Again and again they rush to help the West to destroy eastern Europe.

    Poland has legitimate security concerns that Slovakia or Czechia don’t have

    We all have ‘security interests‘. Poland attacked Czecho-Slovakia repeatedly, they are no angels. Given today’s realities the Oder-Bug flatlands are irrelevant – no war would be fought there. Today it is about missiles and propaganda. And in those two areas Poland has been quite aggressive and it might backfire on it (again). There is also an element of living in truth – let’s describe present and past as they were, not in a one-sided poetic narrative as most Poles do. There is no reason in 2019 to have a war about stuff that supposedly happened generations ago. One more time: one of the two main threats to our civilization and culture in Visegrad countries is a mindless escalation of hostilities with Russia – there can be no happy ending in that fight. (The other one are the Brussels sponsored migrants, but on that I assume we agree.)

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  326. By-tor says:

    Wikipedia? It’s not even allowed as a source in the idiot factories known as US high schools- except perhaps in the ones in the minority-dominated US inner cities, where knowledge has not been important for nearly half-a-century.

  327. peterAUS says:

    Thanks for the info about “Kosovo situation”, especially:

    …There won’t be any legal agreements.

    The situation does remain fluid with several players/fractions in the game. We’ll see. It IS interesting.

    As for Srebrenica, definitely “some shady shit was involved”.
    Still, would be interesting to get to the bottom of that. Such “project” does require an initiative, organization and leadership. I am just curious about what people were in that leadership, top man in particular, and what, exactly, was their motive. I know it’s tricky matter, especially for the people in the know, so, perhaps, we’ll never know (or, at least, won’t talk about that in public).

    I do have a theory, of course.

  328. peterAUS says:

    I might have to correct you – El Mujahid unit by itself was entirely foreign manpower and 7th Muslim (Mountain) Brigade had integral Jihadist subunits.

    Agree. That’s re that “platoon size unit” point of mine.

    Still, I do stand by my main point. I mean….your people from “then and there” know exactly what I am talking about. Those do look ferocious, granted. My experience in such matter (or so I say) is there is a HUGE difference between looking fierce and being efficient in real fighting. Just me….

    The Muslim side had plenty of cannon fodder, I mean light infantry, compared to Serbs, in Bosnia. Good for surprise attack and first 48 hours….until Serbs bring in mechanized forces and artillery and slaughter them.
    What made a success there, especially in ’95, was Western intelligence, Croatian Army along their own lines of advance and Croatian artillery supporting Muslim infantry. And the last, but definitely not the least, Serb side own …..internal problems. These “foreigners” were ..insignificant.
    Actually, hate typing this. People who know don’t need my lectures; people who don’t know won’t get it.

  329. peterAUS says:

    I hear you.

    Hehe…you are preaching to the choir, mate.

    So, while Croats were getting beheaded, the West made sure that Croatia didn’t interfere with foreign Islamists arriving to Bosnia through Croatia, nor tried to stop military and civilian supplies to Bosniaks coming through Croatian ports and roads.

    Well…Tudjman and Clintons.

    This is good:

    Really, the only real lesson of Yugoslav war is that when faced with total distortion and demonization that ensures you will be sentenced after the war, you might as well live up to the narrative and go the extra mile.

    And, as for Mr Tudjman, if he hadn’t died rather soon after the war, he and Milosevic would’ve been in the same block in Hague.
    Not Izetbegovic, of course.
    Could make a naive/ignorant think a bit. Perhaps.

    Eternal game in Balkans. Or, at least, since the Schism of 1054.

    As I said before: I am just curious whether the West Europeans have some doubts now re all that?

  330. peterAUS says:

    Well…blabbing is cheap.

    Show me five minutes video of a unit just doing “advance to contact” and I’ll know all I need to know about them.
    Or so I say.

    Haha..I mean, isn’t that obvious? Pick up a sport you are good at. Watch five minutes video of a player/fighter/team/whatever participating in a real competion.
    Simple, a? Well, probably for around 10 % of people reading this.

    • Replies: @Talha
  331. peterAUS says:

    …the videos I saw out of Bosnia, they were trying to recruit volunteers. But they were trying to recruit idealists. They showed the mujahideen praying together, learning the religion, fighting against military units and even how they were treating their prisoners well.

    Hahahahahahahaha…..”they were treating their prisoners well”.

    Oh man………ah…..the comedy is, really, that you aren’t even trolling; you do actually believe that.

    My God.

    • Replies: @Talha
  332. Talha says:

    Not everyone of course. Im certain all the sides (including Muslims) committed war crimes – that’s a no brainer. My point was that on the video, they were treating prisoners of war well. That is the image they wanted to portray to get potential recruits. That was their target audience, people with a conscience and ideals. You can call it for what it was – propaganda.

    I know you are a deep cynic, but some people actually have ideals and are willing to die for them and not just “muh blood ‘n soil”.

    I was contrasting that with the kind of propaganda coming out of Daesh which is deeply brutal and over-the-top savage, burning people alive, etc. it shows the kind of people they are trying to recruit, their target audience.


  333. Talha says:

    I said he was the best English speaking person to ask about details on who the foreign fighters were, numbers and what they were assigned to do. I didn’t claim he was Rambo.


  334. Malacaay says:

    Czechs are so Geramanized that average Chechs were killing German citizens en mass at the end of WW2. There used to be millions of Geramns living in Chechia, now almost none. And nothing came from “living beside each other,” bling, deaf and ignorant Anglo, Germanics have subjugated those despicable Slavic central European tribes before the time Christ was born. Slavs were they servants, slaves and vassals. Czechia and Slovakia were colonies of Austrians for centuries, so it goes back from the time before the Christ to end of WW1, when central European Slavs freed themselves, and at the end of WW2 they were killing German citizens en mass there.

  335. @Talha


    Muslims were the market dominant minority in (former) Yugoslavia and it was no different than the Malay anti-Chinese riots, only drawn out into a war.

    Serbs started the war. It is as simple as that.

    Of note, Bush once again had wanted Bin Laden to intercede as he had in Afghanistan. One reason that Clinton had not stopped Bin Laden earlier was the hope that his forces would defeat the Serbs.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @Commentator Mike
  336. Epigon says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Would you be so kind and explain how did Serbs start the war in either Slovenia, Croatia or Bosnia&Herzegovina?

    I mean, it is mind-boggling: separatists who fire the first shots on official law keeping and military forces, brazenly break both the federal and republic Constitutions somehow become the law abiding defenders, while the Volk which ends up ethnically cleansed in numbers surpassing 1 million total and suffering defeat after defeat are the aggressors? Honestly, who buys that shit?!

    What does “Muslims were the market dominant minority” even mean?!

    Do you ever question the bullshit you have been fed in light of recent media events regarding Trump, migrations, colour revolutions and Arab spring?

    • Agree: Cyrano
  337. @Epigon

    Slovenia declared independence (first). There was no war no armed conflict.
    Croatia was second declaring independence. In Croatia there were Serbian military camps.
    After declaring Independence Croatian military units surrounded these camps, and they kept them as hostages.(Similarly as Russians did to Ukrainian units in Crimea.) Serbs sent military units into Croatia to free them. and the hell broke loose.
    Bosnia & Hercegovina. The name is idiotic western invention.
    Bosnian name equals Serb or Croat. it is the name of one of the Slavic tribe.
    Herceg means Duke in Hungarian.
    Hercegseg means territory that belong to and ruled by Herceg.
    Hercegovina is a slavization of Hungaryen name Hercegseg
    Bosnians are the most timid people from all Slavic tribes.
    Western imperialists knew very well that Bosnians would have no chance against Serbs.
    They would not even declare independence. So they collected head choppers from All four corners of the world and started to ethnically clease out Serbs.

  338. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Western war criminal imperialists………….

  339. peterAUS says:

    I know you are a deep cynic, but some people actually have ideals and are willing to die for them and not just “muh blood ‘n soil”.

    Cynic or realist…..

    Now, “you”, “me”, who gives a shit.
    But, where you are correct is that conviction and that is important. Or, more accurately, that conviction what a lot of young men (and some women) have at your side. I do give Islamists that, for sure.

    I remember watching a video where an ex white collar Islamist, from West, gave an interview in camera just before getting into APC filled with high explosive and “delivering” that into the enemy trench system. Was interesting and informative watching it.

    My side hasn’t much conviction for anything save social media, shopping and entertainment. Your side has plenty.
    But, that conviction is a finicky thing. You’ve already seen my theory about that. “Hard times…”.

    And, also……..history is full of examples where a side with plenty of conviction but less of resources and technical expertise lost.
    So, we’ll see.

    • Replies: @Talha
  340. peterAUS says:

    Honestly, who buys that shit?!

    You mean in West? Ahm…uhm….I mean….well…around 80 % of those who even pay attention to those things.

    Do you ever question the bullshit you have been fed in light of recent media events regarding Trump, migrations, colour revolutions and Arab spring?

    You mean those “80%”. That rhetorical question?

    You “feel” as a smart and mature guy here, but I am starting to have some doubts. I mean….you are making two fundamental mistakes re discussing “Balkan issues”.
    1. Communicating with guys from the opposite sides who really don’t like your side (say……99.9 % of those typing on the Internet in the first place).
    2. Trying to inform, even educate, an average Westerner.

    Good luck there.

    (Tragi)comedy aside, while we are still on the topic, I guess you know Mr. Trifkovic theory and ideas about Ustashe? Any thoughts?

    • Replies: @Epigon
  341. Epigon says:

    Meta-troll “Russian”, writing nonsense from bizarro world.

    Nice touch, but way past its prime.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    , @peterAUS
  342. Talha says:

    Or, more accurately, that conviction what a lot of young men (and some women) have at your side.

    Well, when it does come to battle, we’ve got a waaay better offer on the table:
    “Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they slay and are slain. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice then in the bargain that you have made, for that is the supreme triumph.” (9:111)

    “Muh blood and soil” pales in comparison – can’t eat that when you’re remains are strewn (literally across a battlefield). And you are asking people to risk their life.

    history is full of examples where a side with plenty of conviction but less of resources and technical expertise lost.

    Big time…one of the best examples of a complete blow out:
    “Battle of the Pyramids, also called Battle of Embabeh, (July 21, 1798), military engagement in which Napoleon Bonaparte and his French troops captured Cairo. His victory was attributed to the implementation of his one significant tactical innovation, the massive divisional square.”


  343. Epigon says:

    I guess you nailed it perfectly regarding logics, causality and factual knowledge regarding specific events.

    I actually considered giving everyone here a brief lecture on how shit actually went down in 1990, 1991 and 1992, but fortunately, you have pointed out the futility of that effort.

    Regarding Trifković, I never bothered with his books, because his political statements, his CV, his employment and his behaviour from 1990s to present day put him in the Anglophile “Serb” category.

    Personally, I have never understood the mystification and “irrational hate of Ustashe towards Serbs” narrative pushed among the Serbs.
    The West-East division practically from Great Schism, if not earlier during West-East Roman Empire divisions went along Drina river.
    Roman Catholic Church in tandem with then-current Catholic power in the area (Franks, Hungarians, Venetians, Habsburgs) worked dilligently to spread Catholicism, and Croatianhood=Catholicism went along nicely for regions west of Drina and along the Adriatic Coast. The middle phase were Vatican “Illyrian Departments” of Congregatio pro Propaganda Fidei and their attempts at creating “Illyrian language” by funding grammar and dictionary writing in 1590s and 1600s.

    A coalition of great powers and the local nation wanted us gone through any means possible – conversion, assimilation. After the Dawn of Nations and national romanticism, more radical ideas soon appeared that included extermination and expelling.
    Who wouldn’t want a homogenous nation state? Without a potential fifth column ethnos of a neighbouring nation state in it?

    Ustashe were not some foolish, comic cartoon villain and sadists working out of pure bloodlust. There was a clearly defined goal, calculation and compromises. Firstly, they targeted the urban, richer and nationally conscious Serbs, in addition to extinguishing Serb Orthodox Church clergy in reach, and creating a fake Croat Orthodox Church in its place.
    Secondly, they looted and marauded monasteries and churches, stole artifacts and relics such as Nomokanon, oldest church books, treasures – took them to Zagreb where they remain to this day; and destroying what they couldn’t take. Funnily enough, during 1990s Serbs evacuated everyting they could from sacral objects – Croatia demands those “cultural objects” be returned today.
    During this phase, Ustashe also went out of their way to ransack the graves and bones of Serb Medieval rulers interred in those churches and monasteries (Lazar, Uroš) within their reach.

    The notorious “1/3 to be slaughtered, 1/3 to be assimilated and 1/3 to be expelled” principle was actually out frustration – previously, Illyrian movement and Habsburgs calculated with 100% assimilation rate.

    A far superior source for Ustashe would be the works of Smilja Avramov, who recently passed away.
    She, along with some Western writers, wrote on the often supressed British connection to Ustashe.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Malacaay
  344. Epigon says:

    You would be highly disappointed if you delved deeper into Bosniak affairs today.
    This islamist idealism, conviction and all that jazz are long gone.
    But the desire to dominate, rule over unbelievers and willingness to kill those who resist that is now laid in the open.

    Yeah, about that. Not sure there will be a place for a Muslim nation/state in Europe by 2050, especially one which has Wahabbi communities, foreign mosques and significant influx of Islamist funds. There recently was a video featuring “faithful” proclaiming the willingness to wage another jihad, and calling upon tens of thousands ready to take part in it.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Talha
  345. @Jeff Stryker

    “Serbs started the war. It is as simple as that.”

    Тhat’s a bold statement. Looking back at it all it seems certain that this war was started by forces outside the region with far reaching aims beyond the Balkans. The destruction of Yugoslavia and its military was just a dress rehearsal for further destruction of Arabic social nationalist regimes such as Libya, Iraq and Syria, and many of the techiques of destabilisation and warfare were first practiced and perfected by NATO in Yugoslavia in the 1990’s. In fact these very Arabic nations were the closest Arab allies of Yugoslavia, and the Yugoslav military cooperated with and trained the military of these countries as well as supplying them with military technologies (perfecting the optical targeting technology for Scud missiles used by Iraq which greatly increased their accuracy in the first Gulf War, constructing deep underground bunkers, etc) . Hence it was first necessary to take out Yugoslavia so that the plan in the Middle East could continue.

    The importation of Jihadist fighters was first practiced in Bosnia on a smaller scale and was then extended to the Arab countries on an ever increasing scale including many more jihadists of western immigrant origin. And let’s not forget that it would have been impossible to open the Balkan route for transporting immigrants to Europe had a strong Yugoslavia remained in place as the border was strongly and seriously guarded unlike by the weaker little breakaway countries of today. So now there are far more Muslims milling around Europe with nothing to do waiting to be recruited for wherever next they need to be sent to to start civil disorders, wars, or whatever mayhem serves those who control them, perhaps in the very Balkans themselves for another round.

  346. @Epigon

    I have just written your name on my dossier POS(T#2)

  347. @Commentator Mike

    Excellent true conclusion. Thank you! Nobody can deny your reasoning.

  348. peterAUS says:

    I actually like the girl’s posts. They clarify a simple fact.

    She IS interested. She even spent some time and effort on the topic.
    And her comments about all that are simply idiotic.

    The simple fact, consequently, is: what does it make of that majority of voters in West who aren’t interested and haven’t spent any time and/or effort on it?
    Democracy, a?

  349. peterAUS says:

    Regarding Trifković, I never bothered with his books, because his political statements, his CV, his employment and his behaviour from 1990s to present day put him in the Anglophile “Serb” category.

    I just feel he made an interesting point, or two, there.

    Personally, I have never understood the mystification and “irrational hate of Ustashe towards Serbs” narrative pushed among the Serbs.

    Ah, well, I guess that mass slaughter of own people, done mostly by hand held blades and blunt instruments, does tend to create such sentiment.

    A far superior source for Ustashe would be the works of Smilja Avramov, who recently passed away

    Will take a look.

  350. peterAUS says:


    But the desire to dominate, rule over unbelievers and willingness to kill those who resist that is now laid in the open.

    Yeah, about that. Not sure there will be a place for a Muslim nation/state in Europe by 2050, especially one which has Wahabbi communities, foreign mosques and significant influx of Islamist funds. There recently was a video featuring “faithful” proclaiming the willingness to wage another jihad, and calling upon tens of thousands ready to take part in it.

    with (from the comment below):

    ….now there are far more Muslims milling around Europe with nothing to do waiting to be recruited for wherever next they need to be sent to to start civil disorders, wars, or whatever mayhem serves those who control them, perhaps in the very Balkans themselves for another round.

    could be an interesting combination.

    Now….hehe…this time, perhaps, that point of yours:

    Really, the only real lesson of Yugoslav war is that when faced with total distortion and demonization that ensures you will be sentenced after the war, you might as well live up to the narrative and go the extra mile.

    could deliver some goods.

  351. Cyrano says:
    @Commentator Mike

    War in Yugoslavia was started by CIA. (What an original statement) To avoid being branded a conspiracy theory nut – here is little bit more of my theory:

    By the time the ’90 came around, Yugoslavia was close to 20 billion dollars in debt to IMF – in other words USA. This debt was accumulated thanks to Yugoslavia splitting from the Eastern – Warsaw pact block – during Tito reign. As a result, Yugoslavia enjoyed some of the highest standard of living of all eastern European countries – plus ability to travel – with some 2 million Yugoslavians leaving legally Yugoslavia for good.

    The high standard of living was accomplished thanks to generous loans that kept the failing socialist economy afloat. By the time the ’90 came, Yugoslavia was already enduring a decade long austerity measures because of its inability to keep up with the loan payments.

    Then, as I said, came the ’90, the new dawn of “democracy” and CIA simply blackmailed Yugoslavia to hold “democratic” elections, if they wanted to avoid even harsher austerity measures associated with the loans repayment.

    But there was a catch there. CIA insisted on “democratic” elections to be held on republics level – not on federal level. Big difference, because CIA knew that if the “democratic” elections are held on the level of the republics – the nutjobs will all go nationalistic and pretty soon at each other throats – resulting in civil war and break- up of Yugoslavia.

    Yugoslavia had to be broken because Serb-dominated Yugoslavia was the last remaining Russian asset in Europe – ironically because they didn’t have to endure the harsh Soviet domination during the cold war. So Yugoslavs (Serbs) were still carrying a lot of sympathies for their Russian brothers.

    That’s why Yugoslavia had to go. The democracy phantasmagoria has been used to break up numerous countries. The CIA playbook is remarkably simple – find traitors – work with them. Promise them untold riches thanks to “democracy” and the fools will fall for it.

  352. @Catiline

    Ah. You are correct concerning my not knowing your argument, or for that matter Willie’s argument. Could you state that argument, or perhaps just excerpt some key positions from your previous posts?

    We might be talking past each other, commenting to the wrong message stream, or some other foolish error.


  353. @Commentator Mike

    Afghanistan was the first time that freedom fighters were used. Yugoslavia was a post Iron Curtain internal beef and we can argue whether the Muslim Croatians and Slovenes were targeted because they had been the business elite or because they wanted to form separate countries.

    It was so many decades before Bush created the refugee situation that your theory is far fetched.

  354. Talha says:

    idealism, conviction and all that jazz are long gone.

    Doesn’t surprise me – a good indication of these things is whether people are having babies and, frankly, Bosnian TFR is in the tank.

    But the desire to dominate, rule over unbelievers and willingness to kill those who resist that is now laid in the open.

    Yeah, this is when religion is used as a veneer for the primary identity that is a deeply identitarian in nature. I saw this when I traveled through Kosovo.

    especially one which has Wahabbi communities, foreign mosques and significant influx of Islamist funds

    Well, since that kind of thing scares someone like me who would rather not have Saudi funding their brand of Islam in my neighborhood, I can hardly expect Europeans to be thrilled. It’s a shame, Bosnia came to Islam through the various Sufi Orders – including mine, the Naqshbandi.

    There recently was a video featuring “faithful” proclaiming the willingness to wage another jihad, and calling upon tens of thousands ready to take part in it.

    I’d love to see this video. I think this kind of thing is great personally in a Muslim-majority country. Its military age males should be absolutely ready and resolute and public about being ready for jihad if they are invaded (I think some of those massive Hezbollah rallies in Southern Lebanon put the fear of God in the Israelis – and that is a good thing). The Bosnians live in a tough neighborhood and were witness to what happens if you are not prepared to fight to defend yourselves.

    Now if that rally is promoting offensive jihad….
    1) Pffffswahahaha – like the Bosnians have any chance – this ain’t Ottoman Empire v2.0 we are talking about here; they needed massive external help to keep their heads above water
    2) Nobody in the Muslim world is promoting offensive jihad except for our lunatic extremists who showed the whole world in Iraq and Syria what kind of a vision of “paradise” they have – no thanks – if that’s their deal, they deserve what’s coming to them


    • Replies: @Talha
  355. Vojkan says:

    Mr. Durocher is cutting Serbs some slack they don’t deserve. Family reasons have led me back to Serbia two years ago after thirty-six years in France. Looking from France, I too thought that given the ~$100 billion damage done to Serbian economy by the West, the bullying was a tempting explanation for the poor performance. The truth is that poor governance by people hopeful to have their offspring living a high life on EU’s taxpayers money has led the smarter to look for a future abroad in more competence-friendly countries while leaving dunces, lazies and crooks behind in charge.
    I suspect that it’s not only the case with Serbia but also with many countries whose rulers are on the Western multinationals’ payrolls. That too is perhaps part of the explanation for the difference in performance.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  356. Talha says:

    our lunatic extremists who showed the whole world in Iraq and Syria what kind of a vision of “paradise” they have

    And of course, the geniuses running the last holdouts of Daesh have decided that a good use of their time is to execute a groups of their scholars (including their top “mufti”) for apostasy because they were asking for a more nuanced approach to labeling people apostates (what is known as takfir):

    (face palm) You cannot make this stuff up…


  357. Malacaay says:

    Have you heard about Greater Serbia? That’s how Serbs started the war, by wanting something which is not theirs. Separatists, you mean like you Orthodox dogs did in Ottoman Empire, forming gangs and attacking peaceful Turks trying to free yourselves from their love? Serbs were a privileged caste in former yugovina. That’s why, among other things, nobody wanted to be part of yugovina. All voted and said no. There were referendums regarding the issue. They all went +90% for the separation vote.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  358. Malacaay says:

    Wrong on all accounts, pathological woman. SR Croatia declared independence after referendum which passed 94% for the independence. Then Serbs declared their republic called Republika Serbska Krajina, and started expelling Croats living there. Then war started. Yugoslav Army attacked Croat side and in those initial months Serbs were expanding. When JNA stopped advancing, i.e. when it was stopped, Serbs signed a cease fire which more and less held for 4 years or so. At the end in a few days Serbs were beaten and sent packing in 1995.

    Regarding Bosnia and Herzegovina. Herceg means vojvoda/duke on German, not on Hunagrian. Ban means duke on Hungarian. Herzegovina as a name was formed in 15th century (it was called Zahumlje before that) by Stjepan Kosaca. Neither Bosnians, Hercegovians, or anyone is Slav here. Our language is classified as southern Slavic and toponyms come from it, nothing more. All those western Africans use French language, hundreds of millions of them, are they french because of it? No. Slavs are invading trash which Germanics (Ostrogoths) brought here to serve as their vassals. Some in Pannonia mostly are Slavs, but there are Avars in Pannonia too. In Dalmatia, Illyrian blood has always been dominant. Dinaric race.

    Which land was part of Serbian kingdom, pathological Russky woman? You have no idea what you are talking about. Either outright lies or sheer ignorance comes from you. Greece was part of Serbian kingdom. Of course you didn’t know that. That’s what Serbs should take. Nobody will miss Greeks. Send them all to Russia.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  359. Malacaay says:

    Yes, Serbo Orthodox dog, Illyrians west of Drina river accepted Catholicis, because this is where our civilizational realm lies. It has always been Rome. Our people’s golden age was during Roman time. Do you know how many Roman emperors were of our blood? We were always part of Rome, always Illyro-Roman culture. Even when we sit on Byzantine throne, we spoke Latin and carried Roman culture. Last of our emperors was Justinian I known as the Great. Flavius Belisarius. One of the greatest generals world has ever known. Destroyed Vandals in Africa Proconsularis and Ostrogoths in Italia with small army. Anyhow, you were offered to get back to our realm, but Orthodox Serbian clergy refused. Orthodox clergy didn’t care about people it was representing, it rather sticked to the Greeks and your Paleiologos queen. That was in 15th century. Funny that, during the your Serboi onslaught on our eastern Illyrian tribes, Greeks watched. They were eager to get rid off Roman culture from our land, so they watched how invader after invader, later on, after the last Illyro-Roman emperors were removed and only their cultural domain stood on the throne in Constantinople, invading; they watched Germanics and their Slavic dogs invading from Europa; they watched Bolghar Turkics invading from the north and taking over Thracia… as they greatly desired to get rid off Roman culture from Haemus Mons (Thracian name, not Turkish Balkan as you know it) peninsula which must have reminded them on theft, and god knows if another Justinian could rise up and end up slaughtering them; and they never moved a finger to get you into “their” Byzantine Empire, even centuries after you settled. Even after you managed to colonize our people and adopted their Greek brand of religion, they still kept you out. There were reasons. So we never moved a finger to help Greeks and their dogs when Muslims came conquering you. Not our fight. Don’t squeal, cry or howl Orthodox. Remember, all the shit this part of the world went through, it went as much as because of the Greeks as it was because of you invading dogs from all across the vastness of Eurasian continent. Sarmatians. Greeks were ever little people. Petty and small-minded.

    As for you Serbois in our land, Serbo, you came as refugees and were allowed in (not by us, mind you). And you hospitality and kindness you repaid with vile thanks by trying to take over our land. You think you have the right to take over our land? You think our ancestral land belong to you? You have the right to take Illyrian land Serbois, hmm? You did it once whence you got here, you can do it again, hmm Serboi? That’s where you were wrong. You are parasitic kind, just like the Muslims. That’s why you could never get along together, which is why you send your Muslims to Bosnia.

    So you stole everything you could from the occupied parts, stole all those tractors on which you left in hurry as well as cultural objects as you acknowledge, and Croatia has the gall to ask you to return it, hmm? You Sarmatian jockers.

    As for Ustashe, yea, Ustashe were bad, just a gang of Germanic vassals run on kajkavian fumes really, but Ustashe however bad they were – and they were bad for us Dalmatians as they were for you Serbs – as they were gifting our land left and right, something which is not theirs to give for they could only give their Croatian land: not our land, our Dalmatian land is not theirs and never will be, we are just living in the same politicial union aka state, nothing more (much like Bosnia carries Bosnian name yet only 23% of Bosnia belongs to them Bosnians: neither Serbs from Republica Serbska or our Herzegovians are their Bosnian people), all that belongs to WW2. You wanted to fight WW2 battles all over, wanted revenge, in the 90s, so you fought it (and interestingly how you fought it, you had claimed to want revenge during time in yugovina, yet when the time came, what did Serbo do? Serbo wanted to take our Dalmatian land, even though we fought on the same side; you wanted revenge for concentration camps, why didn’t you attack kajkavians then? Those “good” Slavs who were raising all those concentration camps to house you in, hmm? Serbo lied; as usual I might add). Let it rest already, Serbo. Because of you Orthodoxs there are Muslims now on Haemus Mons peninsula, Serbo. Turks wouldn’t colonize anyone if it wasn’t for your Orthodox clergy. Deal with the problems you created. Disciples of the Greeks, followers of their ambitions… and they didn’t even let you in. Worse yet, Orthodox have a knack for ethnically cleansing other Orthodoxs. Look at Bulgarians and you. Look at Greeks and Macedonians. Yet Serbo wants to spread on our land. Why don’t you go take Greek land?

  360. Malacaay says:

    Do why did you leave, lazy crook? You are right about something: you Serbs really do have those desires to have offspring living a high life, everywhere I’d say, not just foreign lands. You are not modest people nor do you know what it means. You desire extravagance, excesses, profligacy in your material life. You behave much better regarding your social and sexual life, and that is where you and Russkies differ, as you see, Russkies too desire those things I mentioned in material life, but they also desire those things in social and sexual life. Protestants used to be raised and built to desire very opposite of those things I mentioned. That’s why they build great countries. Do you know what makes people great, Serbo? Their discipline. All great people stand unshaken: to all temptations armed, either from within or from without. Second ingredient is intelligence. Russkies behave like pliable whores on first account (so total fall there), and on the 2nd account they only show respectable analytical and mimicking skills, so no great intelligence like you’d find with the Germans (and neither social and sexual discipline like you’d find with the Germans). Russkies are worthless as civilization, Serbo. Think how stupid and wretched your Serbo kind is as asslickers of Russkies.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  361. @Malacaay

    Obviously when it was happening you were still in diapers. I was following it as it was in the news.
    And Herceg in Germans mean pretty or lovely. It is not any title.
    I am not going to evaluate you, you are not really worthy of it, but Please do not talk to me anymore.
    You probably have seen Hungarian opera Bank Ban that is why you concluded that stupidity.
    Lord in Hungarian is Baro.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  362. Vojkan says:

    Your wife got tired of your inadequacy in bed so she cheated on you with a Serb?

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  363. Malacaay says:

    Ban is Hungarian word for duke (title). Vojvoda in German translation is Herzog (or duke in English).

    Stjepan Vukčić Kosača was the most powerful and for the most part unruly vassal in the Kingdom of Bosnia. A member of the Kosača noble family, he became Grand Duke of Bosnia upon the death of his uncle Sandalj. He refused to recognize the accession of King Tomaš, proclaiming himself a semi-independent herzog, recognizing the suzerainty first of the Ottoman Empire, then Aragon and again the Ottoman Empire. Peace was briefly restored by the marriage of King Tomaš and Stjepan’s daughter Katarina, but it did not last long.

    No matter, all these states are medieval states which are founded on foreign names. I was talking to earlier time. Dalmatia btw is Roman name derived from Illyrian tribe Dalmatae. We have no foreign names or issues in our name, unlike all those other names which were born in medieval time.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  364. @Malacaay

    Fictional “coat of arms of Illyria” in the 17th-century Fojnica Armorial.

    The name Illyria only disappears from the historical record after the Ottoman invasion of the Balkans in the 15th century, and re-emerges in the 17th century, acquiring a new significance in the Ottoman–Habsburg Wars, as Leopold I designated as the “Illyrian nation” the South Slavs in Hungarian territory.[23] Several armorials of the Early modern period, popularly called the “Illyrian Armorials”, depicted fictional coats of arms of Illyria.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  365. Malacaay says:

    Was that necessary, Serbo? Even when I was trying to help you clear your thoughts and give you proper education – for your own, as well as your kind’s sake -, I get this juvenile insult in return. I do recall something regarding your situation. It is a matter regarding loyalty, faith, honor and devotion. A sport analogy. You see, when our people go outside, in foreign lands, they always end up representing their own nation. For example, a sportista, he goes outside but always get back to represent his nation. He shows loyalty. Devotion. Honor. You on the other hand, when you go outside, you show no such thing. You behave like dog, allowing to be bough by first country which offers you citizenship and place in the team. I saw brothers Karabatic few days ago “representing” French, even though they are no French (only have French citizenship; and let’s not even get into Africans in French team: it looks like those games of clubs where you buy players, only currency here instead of euros is citizenship; all of which is obviously a travesty of the nature of competition). Anyhow, my point was that you show no honor. No faith. No integrity. No devotion. No duty. Those of you who get out, in foreign lands. Such dogs. You behave like such dogs, showing no intelligence, honor or duty, and you have the gall to criticize anyone for not being a prostitute like you are.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  366. Vojkan says:

    The thing is, I don’t give a damn about you or what you have to say so do yourself a favour, stop wasting your time trying to teach me, just ignore me as I will ignore you from now.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  367. Malacaay says:

    Truly, you mental woman, only know how to spit utterly moronic, imbecilic the most stupidest shit I’ve ever seen from your mouth (or hands in this case). Illyria was destroyed in European invasion of the 5th century, although culture remained a few centuries after that (full colonization was a few centuries later). That invasion was your Slavic (and of your Germanic masters: where do you simple minded woman think Hitler got notions of Slavic servitude to Germanics and being of lesser worth: Hitler knew history very well, something you despicable ignorant Slavic woman do not). Kingdom of Ostrogoths was formed on the ruins of Dalmatia and Pannonia (those were Illyricum before they got divided). Later on your Slavic dogs Croats from central Europa (Carpathian mountains) came. Croats served Gepids, Ostrogohs, Lombards, Rugiis and possibly some other Germanic tribes in their Carpathian homeland. They continued serving Germanics after they invaded here. Does that hurt your feelings, being such trash and Germanic bitches for thousands of years, hmm, Slavic woman? Do you know when you started being Germanic whores, Slavic woman? Before Christ was born. Anyone who has read anything (even lousy Wikipedia) knows that. Basic history.

  368. You have a such a low intelligence that you even did not recognize that my last comment was taken from historical book. I did not add anything. There is no such nationality as Ilyrian just because Romans did call that Roman province Ilyria did not change nationality of people living there. They were Slavic tribe and remained Slavic tribe to this day.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  369. Malacaay says:

    Fine by me. Just hope your Serbo kind follows your example, but something tells me that’s never going to happen. Nobody likes you here. You know that don’t you? Even Montenegrins despise you. I know. 1st hand experience. You were spreading yourselves on Montenegro as well, Serbo invader.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
    , @Vojkan
  370. Malacaay says:

    I know of that part, you simple-minded woman, too. Something French were creating more than thousand years after the fall of Illyria. It has nothing to do with Illyria, other than being a classical Europan fakery and theft. A travesty like everything else. But you being exceptionally dumb creature, you obviously cannot even put things into chronological context. That requires too much intelligence, something women are generally not “good at.” We are native people of this part of the world, Slavic woman. We go back to the time immemorial. You are invaders, you Slavs. Get these simple truths into your empty head Slavic woman. Repeating one imbecility after another won’t change that simple fact.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  371. Vojkan says:

    Punk, I happen to be Montenegrin on my father’s side and just like that great Montenegrin, Petar Petrović Njegoš, I consider myself Serb. But since you come from people who, contrary to Serbs, have contributed exactly zero to culture or science except for a few plagiarisms, such a concept is way beyond what you can grasp.

    • Agree: Cyrano
  372. Talha says:

    This is what it sounds like…when doves cry…


    • Replies: @peterAUS
  373. You are typical example why Slavic people did not get anywhere, One Slavic tribe hates more the other Slavic tribe than the enemy. Only Russians did try to unite Slavic people, but they eventually realized that not even God could unite Slavic people.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  374. @Malacaay

    Why don’t you just post a link to whatever book and spare us your boring history lessons?

    And why all the rage, insults, and chauvinist hatred? You must have seen someone lately wearing a “MAKE SERBIA GREAT AGAIN” hat. They must be a big fashion statement on your democratic streets to have you foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  375. Vojkan says:

    To paraphrase a Montenegrin joke, boy are you overestimating our concern with your feelings towards us. I honestly wish you aren’t that delusional.

  376. peterAUS says:


    But, you know what. This, actually, is a mild version of the usual “Balkans communications”.
    I just curious how …ahm….deeper it will go. Seen some levels you wouldn’t believe.
    Remember one fellow, on one of forums, ages ago, posting plenty of pics of mutilated civilians. Among other things.

    Now…imagine giving such characters 122 howitzer and a truck of ammo.
    My….uhm..impression was, still is, that the “games” in 90’s were, mostly, at that level.


  377. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    …why all the rage, insults, and chauvinist hatred?

    That rhetorical question?

  378. peterAUS says:

    Ah…probably didn’t come across well re that “mutilated civilians”.
    It is the …ahm…the usual game to show own casualties of that type.

    But, that fellow was posting, with gusto, pictures of enemy civilians mutilated by his side. With detailed descriptions, explanations etc. and quite enjoying all that.
    Ah, even better: he appeared to be quite well read, educated etc.

    Could make some of us think, a?

  379. peterAUS says:

    Can’t help myself, so apologize to around 5 % of readers here. Bear with me, please.

    So…Mr. Malacaay, “where were YOU 1991”?

    Pick one:
    1. With mommy in some “projects” there?
    2. Somewhere in West, watching all that on TV? Australia even, perhaps?
    3. In the 4th (Split) Brigade?

    I’d say….the 1.

    If 3. I’d, personally, give you some slack here (shellshock and such).

    Hehe…and now here he comes….

  380. Talha says:

    Honestly, when I traveled through Kosovo, I actually met some guys who had fought in the KLA; they were talking the same way about Serbs, down to the whole Illyrian thing.

    I didn’t interact with any Serbs to hear their side, but I did distribute candy to some Serbian kids in one of their villages. That was fun – kids are kids no matter what and love candy!


    • Replies: @peterAUS
  381. Malacaay says:

    To my knowledge, 28% of Montenegro population are Serbs. 72% is not. 2006 all Montenegrins voted for independence from Serbia, all Serbs in Montenegro were against it. Being Montenegrin and Serbo in Montenegro are 2 completely different things. You might be offspring of Serbo from ME, but not Montenegrin. Here you go: evidence of Serbo colonization.

    1948. 90% of Montenegrin population identified as Montenegrins. Then came Yugoslavia where everyone and everything had to identify as Croat or Serbian (except for Macedonians and Slovenians) – the result: +20% of ME population was brainwashed to identify themselves as Serbs. 2011. Montenegrins made 45% of population, Serbs 28%, Bosnians (and “Muslims” synonym of Bosnians, i.e. how they were defined before) 12%, Albanians 5%.

  382. @peterAUS

    Yes I think we’re derailing the thread. I have to keep scrolling to the top to see what the article was originally about. We’re well off topic by now. Just wait for an on- topic article, the comments will be hilarious.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  383. peterAUS says:

    Now, this is a public pub and smart people shouldn’t be so dumb as to make so obvious who they really are.

    Having said that, one could get a feel for a person posting here.

    So…you know, my experience (or so I say) is that people like you are the first to go when things get heated. Most often than not taken out by their own side.

    Make of that what you will.

    • Replies: @Talha
  384. Malacaay says:

    Again, nth time over, Slavic woman, we are not your Slavic people. We are Illyrians. Dinaric race. Native people of this part of the world. Google it.

    See, no Slavs!


    Comprendo, Slav? You eastern Slavs are physically small people of pale skin complexion. Look at us: skin tone toward olive. Noticeable physical differences most evident in height difference, muscle fiber difference, eye and hair color, etc. We are not interested in “being united” with your Slavic people, stinking invaders from the north; all we want is to protect our biological distinctiveness… so we can live… like all organisms who want to live protecting themselves from destruction miscegenation and interbreeding cause. Humanoids are no different. As for you Russians being Slavic people, that is debatable. Many of you don’t look Slavic at all: rather you have either Turkic or Altaic physical traits. Products of colonization. You cannot be Slav and be of Asiatic race, even a half-wit could understand that. Keep your unity for yourself and those of your kind and relation, so that Creation can be protected… so that different races, sub-races and ethnic kinds of people can live. That is the paramount imperative for all living organisms, be it cats, birds or humanoids.

    Serbs are not “your” Slavic people either. They are no Slavs. You don’t have your Russky people here. Stick to your Russkies and stop trying to take any of our women (or men) for your Russky kind. We don’t look on such things kindly. I find your Russky social and sexual behavior to be most displeasing: always trying to put itself where it does not belong or commit some abomination: that is what you live for. Truly disgusting. God knows which ones of you whites are worse: Russians, Anglos or euros. Very despicable kinds you are. See where your Slavo kind resides and where have you spread out.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    , @Cyrano
  385. peterAUS says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Yes I think we’re derailing the thread.

    You definitely have a point.

    But….my experience in this pub tells me that’s the norm here. Hehe….you do know, I am sure, certain topics which always pop up, regardless what the article or original topic was about.

    I, personally, find the more value here in observing personalities “discussing/debating” the topics than in topics themselves.
    Say…..60/40 %.

  386. Talha says:

    If you mean I am associated with KLA, then no. I traveled there with my wife who was doing an assessment of needs for a relief agency for people like widows that were suffering from war trauma. There were guys here and there that were associated with or had fought with KLA. Maybe they didn’t care much about being open since the entire place had KFOR troops all over the place (I learned later that is was to both protect Kosovars from Serbia as well as small Serbian enclaves [like the one I distributed candy in] from the surrounding Kosovars) and they probably figured I wouldn’t do much with the info anyway. Out of all the people I met there, those were the guys I liked least; arrogant, haughty, etc.

    Most often than not taken out by their own side.

    For distributing candy to little kids…well anybody who would kill me for being kind to children on the other side will have to stand before God and answer. I’ll be fine answering for why I gave their children candy.


    • Replies: @peterAUS
  387. @Malacaay

    I can see now I was wrong. I did see the pictures. I do apologize. So you are no Slavs. You are Gypsies.
    I think you have convinced me! Gypsies created from currency. Now that is a great miracle.

  388. Absolutely, I agree. Comments can be fun and informative but some decorum should be maintained, at least on intellectual sites like this.

    There’s pubs and there’s pubs. Lately I spend too much time in those where conversations quickly degenerate to personal insults, swearing, cursing, vulgarity. On the other hand I used to frequent pubs where profanity aimed at someone’s mother, sister or God would have got you killed. And then some topics are off limits. In some pubs you can safely discuss football but not religion, in others vice versa.

    Speakers Corner in Hyde Park of many decades ago was the best for debates as people had thick skin but I think these days one has to be careful what one says or how far one takes it. And it seems they’ve lost their sense of humour there compared to the old days. And even the vulgarity of the old timers had its charms back in the day.

  389. peterAUS says:

    If you mean I am associated with KLA, then no.

    Well, of course. I mean, even if you were you wouldn’t say it, would you?

    …a relief agency for people like widows that were suffering from war trauma.


    ….small Serbian enclaves [like the one I distributed candy in]

    You DID? Now…that’s just…..OK…assuming you are telling the truth, impressive.
    Stupid, but impressive. Because…khm….ever occurred to you that those KFOR troops there (you’ve seen, but more importantly, perhaps, those you haven’t……………) were there to protect people like you and your wife?

    Out of all the people I met there, those were the guys I liked least; arrogant, haughty, etc.

    True. Those visible, that is.
    Those not visible weren’t/aren’t of that type, obviously. Anyway.

    As for this:

    For distributing candy to little kids…well anybody who would kill me for being kind to children on the other side will have to stand before God and answer. I’ll be fine answering for why I gave their children candy.

    Man, I don’t know you. By very definition we are on the opposite sides. But……how to put it….you do appear to lack certain awareness and basic common sense.
    You really do.

    One advice, though: if things ever get heated there again, don’t do that. Just don’t.

    • Replies: @Talha
  390. What we have here folks is not an exception to the rule, it is a rule by itself.
    Religious affiliation is stronger than blood affiliation. The night of saint Bartholomew comes to my mind, where French Catholics did murder all French Huguenots. Man, women, and children.
    Even domestic animals. Like Jews did to inhabitants of Jericho.
    And like 30 years religious wars that devastated all Europe.

    • Replies: @Talha
  391. Talha says:

    even if you were you wouldn’t say it, would you?

    I don’t think they are interested in taking applications from guys born in Pakistan. They probably thought I was from an inferior race the way they talked about themselves.


    Somewhat; I mean she was being paid for it by the relief agency she worked for at the time.

    were there to protect people like you and your wife?

    Look, I don’t want to be disingenuous and make it sound bigger than it was. We were driving from one place to another and crossed one of these places where Serbs were in neighborhoods. We stopped by a place which seemed to be on the edge or so and saw a bunch of little kids playing. Our main guy, a Syrian doctor, said he thought it might be a good idea to hand out the candy we had as a gesture of good faith so they would see that not all Muslims consider them as enemies. Pretty soon we had a bunch of kids around our van once they called their friends over and I saw a couple of mothers looking out their windows to see, but that was about it – I don’t even think I saw any men around (we certainly wouldn’t have stopped in the middle of a pack of men). But I never felt threatened there and our lead guy had been there for like a couple of years so he knew the lay of the land.

    you do appear to lack certain awareness and basic common sense.

    I wasn’t exactly crossing a mine field to the opposing side to give their kids candy during a hot war…I explained the situation, it wasn’t all that grand like Rambo parachuting in to give lollipops to a besieged Vietnamese orphanage.


    • Replies: @peterAUS
  392. Talha says:

    Religious affiliation is stronger than blood affiliation.

    Agreed – look at Iraq. Blood affiliation arises in the absence of a strong religious identity and is actually a marker regarding the health of religion within that society. Olivier Roy (who is basically awesome all around and wrote a recent book on the subject of Islamic identity being revived in the Balkans*) had a great interview on the subject:



  393. Cyrano says:

    My question is why would people of superior intelligence as obviously you highly esteemed Croat nation is – in relation to the Serbs – why would such superior race speak the language of the hated Serbs? Is it only a temporary solution, until you come up with a language that matches the civilizational achievement of the Croats or what?

    But then, if it took you a millennia and a half to master such a simple barbaric language as the Serbian – how long will it take you to invent or adopt something that more closely matches your status of preeminent civilized European country?

    You understand what I am saying here – I am starting to lose faith little bit in the Croats. You have to discontinue using the Serbian language if you want to retain a modicum of respect from the civilized west.

    And another thing – I much prefer the theory of the Iranian heritage of the Croats – it’s more exotic than the BS theory about the Illyrians of a Dinar race – at least I hope it’s the Kuwaiti dinar.

    Anyhow, back to the Iranian theory, do you people realize that you could be the Freddie Mercuries of Europe – sans the talent and with the faggotry included – of course.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  394. @Talha


    Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are Muslim but treated worse than whites in the Arab Gulf. Part of this is class and income, but Arabs also regard them as inferior. Probably more so than whites. A high-class English or American call girl in Dubai working the hotel circuit gets better treatment than a law-abiding Pakistani woman there.

    Brahmin tend to behave more civilly to whites than they do lower-caste Indians. Again, some of this is consequential-whites in a Northern California suburb with no religious restraints will react with unrestrained force towards Brahmin, who are generally effete anyhow.

    See my point?

  395. peterAUS says:

    Well…..if you were my friend we’d have a LONG conversation, over drinks, at my place, about that particular…

    All good.

  396. Malacaay says:

    There is not that much difference between Levantines from the Mesopotamia and Arabs from Arabian peninsula. One cannot spot physical differences or mental ones – they are of the same shape. Iranians differ, and Medians (you know them now under the name of Kurds) differ the most. You are fantasizing Muslim. Medians/Kurds feel no affection to Arabs,Pakis or Turks. Turks too feel no such affection toward Arabs, Pakis (Islamic Indians) or Asiatics even though you are all of the same faith – Sunnis. Obviously your mental strength is weakening. Indians used to be of great mental shape.That’s what you get for adopting Islam and disbanding Hindu or Buddism.

    • Replies: @Talha
  397. Malacaay says:

    Everything I put forward for you in the last 3 days has been making the point of blood convergence of our people which have been under colonization for a long time (and which is converted into different religions as well, so your ignorant notions of how a set o moronic ideas and stories we know as religions somehow hold primacy over biology, i.e. blood, is utter stupidity on so many levels I don’t want to touch now). There is our people, you woman of Slavo invaders, trapped in all these nations for millennia and more, being colonized, brainwashed and exploited by the invaders. They are no Serbs, Croats or any other invasive specie. From the Slovenian borders in Istria to the borders of Albania — that is all Dalmatia! Not some stinking Croatia, not some filthy Serbia — but Dalmatia, the way it has always been so.

    As for us being gypsies, sure, we are sooner gypsies than stinking Slavo and Germanic invading dogs from the north, Turkic invading dogs from the south or Iranian invading dogs from the east! Our land is the most beautiful land in the world. Greeks have lovely islands, but they pale in comparison to the natural beauty of our land.

    This is Dalmatia, all the way from the borders with Slovenia, to the borders with Croatia between Kordun and Lika, then to the borders with Bosnia our people made in Herzegovina to the borders with Serbia made in Montenegro all the way to Albania. That is Dalmatia. We are Illyrians.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  398. Talha says:

    Turks too feel no such affection toward Arabs, Pakis (Islamic Indians) or Asiatics even though you are all of the same faith – Sunnis.

    Uh hunh…
    “Turkey considers the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, with which it is bound with fraternal ties, as one of the prominent players for the security and stability of the region.
    Turkey-Pakistan relations gain their strength from history. The support extended by the Muslims of the sub-continent to the Turkish Independence War occupies a special place in the Turkish mind. The Turkish Liberation War and its success in establishing a modern state afterwards has been a source of inspiration for the Pakistani people since August 14, 1947, the day the Islamic Republic of Pakistan emerged as a sovereign state. In 2017, 70th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between Turkey and Pakistan celebrated through several cultural events, which were organized in both countries.”

    “Turkey-Pakistan military ties are historic and not new. The two air forces are one of the closest in terms of cooperation, exchange of training, procurement and strategic partnerships. However this deal takes the relationship into another domain.”

    That’s what you get for adopting Islam and disbanding Hindu or Buddism.

    One of the main problems is I have a visceral gut reaction to idols. I feel like throwing up when they are around me.

    Why don’t you convert to Hinduism or Buddhism to show us how much #CowLivesMatter can enrich your life?


    • Replies: @Malacaay
  399. Malacaay says:

    [Too many totally off-topic comments arguing about the racial origins of Croats and Serbs are cluttering up this thread. Stop doing this if you want your comments to be published.]

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  400. Malacaay says:

    The notion of Iranian origins or Croats, whom we all know are Slavic people, was put forward by other poster. I was responding to that poster who had responded to me previously, and the topic is what had been allowed already.

  401. Malacaay says:

    Turkish .gov might consider that Sun orbits the Earth or that Islam or any other religion or ideology is above biology, a notion which you and the Slavic woman appear to share.
    These are the facts however:
    Turks are very distinct people from the Arabs, both biologically and culturally; they don’t like each other well even though they are of the same faith. Sunni Muslims. Kurds/Medes too. Iranians also. My previous comment captured the essence well. You can read it again. You will understand it eventually.

    • Replies: @Talha
  402. @Malacaay

    I am glad that you have cooled down. To your surprise I am agreeing with most of what you have written in this comment. I am particularly agreeing that probably at least 10 times the Dalmatian Territory was taken from them as it is now. But than things change.
    Also I do realize that Dalmatian people were under strong influence of more developed cultures of Greeks and Romans. And I also know that Dalmatia did have their own Dalmatian Roman legion.
    I am not really so much interested, except about your language. Is it Serbian? What language is the base of your original language. I also know that some Slavic writers used to go to Dalmatia for the winter. Why?
    How can you explain that?

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  403. Talha says:

    Turkish .gov

    Has a better idea of its history than you do:
    “During the Balkan Wars of 1912–13, concerned Muslims around India mobilized to dispatch three medical teams to treat wounded Ottoman soldiers. Among them the one organized by Mohammad Ali Jauhar and directed by Dr Mukhtar Ahmad Ansari caught the limelight, thanks to the regular letters sent home by the director of the mission and published at the weekly Comrade journal. In the body of scholarship on Ottoman pan-Islamism and its influence on the 1919 Khilafat Movement in India, the 1912–13 Indian Medical Mission is understudied as a manifestation of pan-Islamist political ideology and Muslim internationalist action.”

    Turks are very distinct people from the Arabs, both biologically and culturally

    And Africans, yet this is what Turkey is doing:
    “Since 2011, Turkey has sent almost $1 billion in aid to Somalia. After the emergency was over, Turkish companies launched into major infrastructure projects, building roads, hospitals and the port. Turkish Airlines is the only international carrier that flies to Mogadishu. Turkey has cemented its place in the hearts of the Somali people, who watch its soap operas and buy its products.
    Evidence suggests that Western nations sent more money than Turkey. For instance, the UK alone spent $148 million in Somalia in 2017-18. But while Somali elites may talk about money spent by the West on promoting democracy and security, ordinary Somalis are unlikely to be able to name one thing. Asked about Turkey, they would give a long list. Simply, ordinary citizens feel the Turkish presence in the country is improving their lives.”

    Islam doesn’t ask people to become biologically or culturally Arab – only Wahhabi-extremists would disagree.

    they don’t like each other well even though they are of the same faith

    Uh hunh – you would know this because you interact with many Muslims of various different backgrounds every day…riiiiight. I can tell you that the more they are religious minded, the more Muslims emphasize common spiritual bonds between each other and the more secular nationalists are the ones who emphasize blood & soil differences. Which is why I stated that the rise in blood & soil ideology is gauge in how unhealthy a religion is in a region.

    Kurds/Medes too

    The current fight between Turks and Kurds came out as a result of them adopting secular ethno-nationalist notions from Europe – before that, the Kurds were one of the most loyal people in the Ottoman Empire:
    “Especially among the Kurds, the caliphate had been held in high esteem. When, at the outset of the First World War, the Sultan in his capacity of Caliph or supreme leader of all Orthodox Muslims proclaimed a jihad, most Kurds rallied to the call. The large sums that had been spent by Russians in an attempt to buy some Kurdish chiefs’ loyalties were of no avail, nor could emotional appeals by Kurdish nationalists complete against the Caliph’s word…As Van Bruneissen observes, it was not until this supra-ethnic bond was severed with the elimination of the caliphate that ‘more or less nationalist-inspired revolts’ began to emerge among the Kurds.”
    Longing for the Lost Caliphate: A Transregional History (Princeton Univ. Press)

    Now please go back to having fun tearing apart and denigrating people who live across the valley from you and see where that gets you. Your knowledge of the Muslim world is laughable and basically typing out your opinions. I’ll take spiritual brotherhood over that “muh biology” nonsense any day.


  404. Malacaay says:

    There was never Greek influence here. Only Roman. We have the oldest church in the world, Cathedral of Sveti Duje (Saint Domnius). It is where the resting place of Diocletian is. It is said that the Emperor Diocletian will rise up from the dead, raise the army and slaughter the invaders. Wouldn’t want to be Slavic euro when that happens, let me tell you. As for our language, it is Dalmatian language – ijekavian-stokavian and cakavian languages (they mix when people speak them, so you cannot really hold them separately). Those are languages spoken in Dalmatia from borders with Slovenia to borders with Albania. Regarding Serbian language, you need to go to Republica Serbska or Serbia in order to hear them. Go to kajkavian lands (Zagorje, Prigorje, Medjimurje, Kordun and primary Slovenia) if you want to hear true Croatian.

  405. @Malacaay

    Something wrong here. Why the oldest cathedral in the world has a Slavic name., You are engaged in desperate denial. I cant see the the reason for your behavior.
    I definitely do not think that Austrian emperor Leopold when he characterized Dalmatians as Southern Slavs on Hungarian Territory was a liar.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  406. @Malacaay

    On pictures you have presented the persons did have black hair. This is a wide generalization but still.
    In Europe only Greeks, Spanish, and Gypsies do have a prevalently black hair. Slavs, Germans, Latins, French, Scandinavians (even Hungarians) have brownish to blonde hair.
    What colour is your hair?

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  407. Malacaay says:

    Duje is not Slavic name. It is Dalmatian name translated and abbreviated. Original is St. Domnius. You keep repeating your moronic mantra over and over again. You think by repeating it you will force your way, hmm? You are simple-minded woman. Very ignorant. You have no idea how ferocious we Illyrians are. You Slavs are mild-tempered people compared to us. Ostrogoth emperor Leopold had no idea what he was talking about. For Germanics, characterizations and classifications are based on language (even Greeks weren’t that dumb). That is extremely stupid. I mentioned Africa, western part in particular, how it speaks French language. Official French language. But they are not French. Dumb Slavs repeating Germanic classifications like dogs. You could never make anything your own. You are low-lives who steal from others. Or mimic. When you sense you could steal something or claim it your own, Slavics seems to be very persistent. You found a wrong place to be persistent at. Believe me. Last place or people you ever want to irritate with any disgusting, colonizing claims and assertions would be here. Nothing good can come from such provocations to you personally or your Slavic kind. You shall find no welcome here. Ever.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  408. Malacaay says:

    That’s just stupid. Go and have a look at national teams of Slavs, Scandinavians, French and Hungarians. You will find plenty of black-haired people there, but you won’t find black hair with brown or black eyes. Those of you northerners who have black hair are of pale complexion and thus have bright eye color. You will never see a northerners with dark eye color and dark hair. Such people are not from your latitudes. I don’t watch sport, so I won’t go around looking for proofs of your lies. But anyone who wants can easily do it. There will be loads of examples.

    Latins are not your Slavs, Germans, French and Hungarians, you silly woman. We are Latins. We Mediterraneans.

  409. peterAUS says:

    I like your posts. Please, keep them coming.

    There is that “1 %” here (not that money/power type but that another one) and it’s always good to see them in action.

    I am a bit confused, though,and I am positive you could clear that in a second.

    See, it is official here that the first Croat immigrants from Dalmatia (islands and coast) came to Australia around the end of 19th century.
    So….were they really Croats, or those “Dalmatians/Illyrians/whatever”, of yours?
    Say, if I meet a guy who is saying his ancestors came from Dalmatia, how can I tell whether he is Croat or Illyrian? That appears to be a sensitive issue and I wouldn’t like to make them unhappy.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
    , @Cyrano
  410. @Malacaay

    You tiny hypocrite. Is Sveti Ilyrian? (I do love this site you cannot go back and edit your comment. It is out there for everybody to see forever.)

  411. Malacaay says:

    Dalmatians, not Croats. Croats are parasites on Dalmatians and Dalmatian people. Been so ever since their Germanic masters brought them here. Yea, some of our people did leave at the beginning of last century to Australia and America. There are Dalmatians in your lands. You won’t find many of our people in Australia, so you won’t ever come into such a situation, rest assured. Are you Anglo, an offspring of some criminal who was brought in Australia to populate it and slaughter the natives? What kind of immigrant are you?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @peterAUS
  412. peterAUS says:

    There are Dalmatians in your lands. You won’t find many of our people in Australia….

    Makes sense………

    Are you Anglo, an offspring of some criminal who was brought in Australia to populate it and slaughter the natives? What kind of immigrant are you?

    I am sure that a person of your intellect can figure that out by himself.

    For my part, here is what I deduced about you from post in this thread:
    You are one of those “1%” here. That’s all what matters, really.
    On top of it not very much, formally, educated. Obsessive and focused on….something. Probably late 20’s to mid 30’s, age wise.

    All in all, a very good specimen of the type.

    Keep typing.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  413. Cyrano says:

    Say, if I meet a guy who is saying his ancestors came from Dalmatia, how can I tell whether he is Croat or Illyrian? That appears to be a sensitive issue and I wouldn’t like to make them unhappy.

    How about if you both used Serbian as a lingua franca – would that help to ease the tensions and the misunderstanding? I’m just trying to help here – don’t get upset.

    • Replies: @Malacaay
  414. peterAUS says:

    Let’s try again, I didn’t quite get what you were trying to say. My fault, entirely.

    Australia example didn’t work. Pity, but makes sense. Not enough of specimens to compare.

    But, I guess, in Split, for example, we should be able to see plenty of examples of those types: the Illyrian (Übermensch) and Croatian/whatever (untermensch).

    Say, how would YOU distinguish between them in, for example, a pub?
    You walk in, take a look, even listen a bit, and you just know who’s who?

    I am sure you’ve developed quite an effective system.
    Care to share that with me (maybe even some “us”) here?

    Shape of head? Height? Hair/eyes color?

    Like, for example, the Aryan ideal: tall, blond, blue eyes. Something like Hitler, Himmler and Goebbels, for example.

    • Replies: @apollonian
  415. apollonian says: • Website

    Petey-Pete Doesn’t Say Why Unc’ Adolf, Himmler, Or Goebbels Are NOT “Aryan”

    “Like, for example, the Aryan ideal: tall, blond, blue eyes. Something like Hitler, Himmler and Goebbels, for example.”

    Is Petey-pete being sardonic?–AGAIN?–ho hoo ho ho oho

    “Aryan ideal”?–as distinct fm what? For note there are wide, general distinctions, like “Ham, Shem, and Japhet,” though these are only partial and not clear for particular traits. Then there is Caucasian, Negroid, and Mongolian, but these are too broad for many if not most.

    But Petey-pete, WHAT is it exactly that would exclude dear, heroic unc’ Adolf, Heinrich Himmler, or good old Joe Goebbels fm “Aryan”? Thou are such brilliant know-it-all (tee-hee-hee)–tell us.

    And then Petey-pete, don’t forget the two basic philosophic divisions, aside fm objective (Christian, Aristotelian) vs. (Jew “midrash”) subjective–regarding basic nature of reality. And that regards (a) determinist (absolute cause-effect, no perfectly “free” will), following fm the objective, and (b) perfectly “free,” God-like will, especially regarding “good-evil,” following fm subjective, etc.

    Thus following the determinist philosophy, race, like anything else, is important, whereas in thy satanic (perfectly “free” will, pretending thou are like God) philosophy, it doesn’t matter, right?–“do what thou wilt,” right, petey-pete? Tell us all about it.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  416. It is such a pleasure to step on fingers of somebody hanging over a cliff.
    Temptation is overwhelming, But than looks like Dalmatians have a skin of water buffalo.

  417. peterAUS says:

    Now, for some reason you’ve slipped through my “ignore list” but, on the positive side, among that usual psychopathic rambling of yours, something did catch my eye:

    ….don’t forget the two basic philosophic divisions, aside fm objective (Christian, Aristotelian) vs. (Jew “midrash”) subjective–regarding basic nature of reality…

    What’s your take on that, occult, element of Nazi regime? Adolf really believed, even practiced, all that?
    You know, “The Sword of Destiny”, “The Occult Roots of Nazism” etc.I am sure you’ve read all that.
    C’mon, if you can write something of a value there you are allowed to put that “ho hoo ho ho oho” in each paragraph. Imagine that. What a pleasure, a?

    • LOL: apollonian
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  418. peterAUS says:


    • LOL: apollonian

    you are chickening out? Really?

    All that knowledge and erudition, let alone attitude, and…”blop”.

    You are even going to say you haven’t read those books?!?

    That’s just…….disappointing.

    • LOL: apollonian
  419. Malacaay says:

    Give it a rest already, Serb. Don’t push your Serbo colonizing bs further from your lands. You have no lands aside from Rep Serbska, Vojvodina, Sumadija and Kosovo. Those are Serb lands. Stop creating turmoil and tensions with you constant push to spread on neighboring lands. Know your place.

  420. Malacaay says:

    Frankly, I haven’t read more from you than the 1st your comment I ever saw (and I don’t think I finished reading it simply because of quality of the content) as it reeks of nonsense and silliness. I saw your post was addressed to me so I read it, but couldn’t finish or understand it well. Silliness is not easily digestible. But I do recognize your mental shape. I’ve seen it many times. You are “speaking a lot, but not saying anything,” i.e. blabbering and driveling. You also seem to be immersed into supremacy judging by that post you addressed to me. How do you recognize Croat from Illyrian, you ask. First by self-identity. In this aspect most will identify as Croato, since we have been brainwashed by the constant colonization programs via schools, media, literature, political program, the every name the state carries, etc. But remember, the political union we were united under carried the name of Triune Kingdom of Dalmatia, Slavonia and Croatia; in other words, Croatia was just a region of today Croatia: it didn’t encompass Dalmatia and Slavonia like now with its abbreviated name shows. Those old maps you see from 9th century or so are fake. There was no Croat king ever. No grave or burial site exists.
    We have the resting place of Emperor Diocletian who died in December 311 AD, but no invader king exists in our land. Croats did have us occupied, but so did Ostrogoths. Ostrogoths under their kingdom held under it their occupation all of Dalmatia and Pannonia and Italia. All of it. Until Roman general Belisarius and Emperor Justinian took them down. Destroyed them.
    There are biological differences between Illyrians and invaders from the north though. Have a look.
    Filip was born from Illyrian Dinaric blood of both parents from Livno, Hercegovina, but in Zagreb where native inhabitants of Zagreb do not have his Dinaric blood, genome and biology. My point is that Dinaric race is the native race of this part of the world and easily distinguishable from the invasive species which came either from northern latitudes (Europe) as well as Turkish and Iranian invaders from the south and east. Dinaric people are the native people of Illyria, although we have suffered a great deal of damage via miscegenation to our biology and ultimately existence. We must protect our existence. It’s the natural right and the utmost sacred imperative of any people.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  421. peterAUS says:

    Dinaric race…
    Illyrian Dinaric blood….
    Dinaric people are the native people…


    The concept of a Dinaric race originated with Joseph Deniker in the late 19th century, but became most closely associated with the writings of Carleton S. Coon and Nazi eugenicist Hans F. K. Günther.

    ….the Dinaric race is a mixed type consisting of the Nordic race and Mediterranean race..


    So, what’s next?
    There are more people feeling like you there? Any club, society, organization, perhaps?
    Got any program, manifesto? Plan, even?

    Ah, yes….the last but not the least: have you got any symbols? Like…swastica, star….whatever?

    • Replies: @JRB
  422. JRB says: • Website

    Stop being so childish. Around the year zero Illyrian tribes were dominant in the Balkans. After the Roman request, after the third century crisis many, maybe even the majority of Roman soldier-emperors were Romanized Illyrians (for 200 years they formed the backbone of the Roman army). Now, many invasions later, the remnants of these Illyrian people are still there on the Adriatic east-coast (Dalmatian isles) in the form of the Dalmatians and probably also the Albanians. What’s is so hard to understand about that ?

  423. peterAUS says:

    What’s is so hard to understand about that ?


    I have one question for you:
    What is the practical importance of that “remnants” and “probably” facts for that part of the world, now and in foreseeable future?

    My take: zero

    Actually, there is some. Keeps some ….say…peculiar….characters under control. Gives them some sense of self-worth and enables them to manage their daily lives a bit better.

    Beats drugs, alcohol and home violence, I guess. Online therapy, I mean.

  424. I have checked out map of ancient map of Rome.
    On the opposite side of Italy is Noricum, Pannonia, Dalmatia,Macedonia, and Greece.
    In Dalmatia is one Roman outpost city of Salonae.
    In the book I did find that Romans sent legion to eliminate the pirates on Ilyrian coast that were harassing Roman ships.
    (Rome, by Will Durant)
    As I do understand then Romans did call all opposite area off the see Ilyrian.

  425. Anonymous [AKA "under tyranny the truth is demonized rebellion"] says:

    Tsigantes, you use the typical, but baseless and pathetic excuse, for the corruption in corrupt countries, societies, ghettos etc, i.e. you blame the one who pays the bribe.

    But reality mercilessly prove this excuse ridiculously wrong. the bribes are paid by locals and foreigners of a myriad of different countries to the other side made os basically the locals.

    And there is more: investigating the habits of these different foreigners that pay the bribe in corrupt countries/societies, one can realize that they have bribing records consistent to the bribing levels of their

    countries/societies of origin. one Swiss, Danish, Japanese of Singaporean will have a record clean of corruption while in his original place and even when living working on equal low corruption societies,

    never being extorted to pay bribes to avoid suffering sabotage from the part of the worker send by his insurance company to fix his stuff he cannot afford to leave out of service.

    On the other end of this cultural vibrant and enriching bell curve of corruption level, it is found that one country with world average level of corruption can be more enriched on these grounds if happens to be

    lucky enough to be on the cross-hairs of Soros Cabal´s NGOs, and receive immigrants from the top tier societies of the ranking of such vibrant cultural feature. e.g. Somalia, Congo, Sudan, Algeria etc etc

    one situation where these ambassadors of the new world order designed for the (((special tribe))) for all the countries of the world (((except one country, guesses?))) will bring great innovations on the

    the records of corruption achievements in their new host countries.

    that will leave the native population astonished with their mastery and Uber-ultra-superior knowledge in these corruption matters.

  426. Tsigantes says:

    ” the same train of thought was instrumental in some of worse atrocities one can think of during previous century. Including mass murder on genocide level.”

    Thanks PeterAUS, this needed to be said.
    Greece by the way has the same (purported) low IQ as Israel.Considering that Israel is full of (purported) high IQ Americans and Germans how can this be? Is it their jewishness pulling them down or the arab population?

    Frankly I am an IQ agnostic…these claims, which like many similar over the last hundred years, have conveniently flattered and justified the Great Powers temporal omniscience, are rather too similar to lists like The 100 Best Universities which invariably start with Harvard, proceed through the 5 Eyes and then EU Great Power countries before moving to Japan.. Yet Harvard is a cargo cult school, full of imported foreign professors on short contracts whose own schools receive mysteriously dismal ratings….I refer you to Ron Unz’s articles on the topic of Ivy League universities.

    Meanwhile Greeks are mystified by our assigned IQ since no one I know, nor any of our children, have ever taken, or been given, an IQ test. So whither this result?

    It would be well to remember the fate of Ozymandias, or the later Greek concept of hubris.

  427. @Mikel

    That study means very little. All it tells us is the genetic composition of the people sampled. Argentina is no longer over 95% European, but it certainly has a European majority mostly made up by people of Spanish, Basque and Italian descent.

    Here’s a question, when did the Europeans become demographically replaced in Argentina? We know that in the 1930’s, Argentina had an overwhelming European majority (over 95%) and that over 85% were either immigrants or children of recent immigrants (Conquest of a Continent). These are people who would have had zero traces of Amerindian ancestry.

    The Golden Age of Argentina ended with the Great Depression. Was an Argentina with a stagnant economy a bigger draw for migrants than the United States at its heights? Keeping in mind that Argentina also had an immigration policy designed to bring in Europeans and started off without a large non-European minority group (the U.S. being 9 to 15% black at any given time). Also keep in mind that between the 1930’s and the 1980’s they were often under repressive military dictatorships, prone to revolutions and highly unstable.

    The mass immigration that’s taken place in Argentina began in the 1980’s. Are we to believe that in under 2 generations, Argentina went from being overwhelmingly European to being overwhelmingly mestizo? Most likely, the test that you’re using tested a bunch of George Zimmerman whites. It doesn’t jive with what we know about this countries history.

  428. I wonder what the racial/ethnic composition of those who recently publish on Nature, Science and other high quality scientific journals is. Let’s just consider the past 5-10 years.


    1. Ashkenazis
    2. White-Nordic
    3. White-Mediterranean
    4. White-NE Europeans (i.e. Poles, Russians, etc)
    5. White-SE Europeans (i.e. Serbs, Croats, Bulgarians, etc)
    6. NE Asia-Japan
    7. NE Asia-Sinic (Chinese & Koreans)
    8. MENA-Turkic (i.e. Turks, Azeris, etc)
    9. MENA-Persian (i.e. Persians, Pashtuns, etc)
    10. MENA-Arabs
    11. Sephardic Jews
    12. Mizrahi Jews
    13. South Asia-North Indians (including Pakistanis & Bengalis)
    14. South Asia-South Indians (including Sri Lankans)
    15. SE Asia-Sinic (Vietnam)
    16. SE Asia-mainland Indic (i.e. Thais, Burmese, Khmers, etc)
    17. SE Asia-Austronesians
    18. Mestizos
    19. Native Americans
    20. Polynesians
    21. Micronesians
    22. Negritos
    23. Melanesians
    24. Australian aborigines
    25. Papuans
    26. NE Africans (i.e. Ethiopians, Somalis)
    27. Nilotic
    28. Bantu
    29. Bushmen
    30. Pygmies

  429. @niteranger


    >Nice essay. Western Civilization has something that many other nations including China and Japan lacked….Creativity. People don’t like to hear this because it reeks of supposed White Supremacism. Where does it come from? Does it remain from our ancestors and the struggles they endured in harsher climates? Of course Natural Selection doesn’t occur for intelligence as prescribed by the Jewish Bolsheviks who control our universities. Sub Saharan Africa couldn’t produce someone who could build a boat to get off the continent.

    I assume that it is at least partly a consequence of pastoralism. I do wonder what the current white vs NE Asian ratio in high quality scientific output is though.

  430. @Colin Wright

    Interesting thoughts re the Ottoman Empire. If the best and brightest minds in the Balkans converted to Islam and headed for Turkey with the other Ottoman officials when the latter group was driven out, one would think that Turkey today would be teaming with bright stars and an economic powerhouse. By my observation, not so much. They have some sharpies, but do not compare with northern Europeans.

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