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POLL: 66% of Young Muslims in France Want Blasphemy Punished by Law
26% do not oppose the assassination of cartoonists mocking Mohammed
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With the beginning of the trial of 11 Muslims accused in the 2015 Charle Hebdo massacre, the notorious French newspaper is republishing the cartoons of Mohammed which got 12 of their colleagues murdered. Bernard-Henri Lévy and secularist establishment are celebrating this brave expression of free speech as a triumph of the Values of the Republic.

Meanwhile, this same politico-media establishment is condemning en masse the right-wing magazine Valeurs actuelles for publishing an alternative history in which a left-wing Black MP is portrayed as being enslaved by her fellow Africans. This, of course, was racist, not a legitimate expression of the spirit of Voltaire.[1]Even Marine Le Pen’s National Rally piled on against Valeurs, proving yet again that her “nationalist” party is an epiphenomenal manifestation of the French politico-media system and exists only by the tolerable limits set by that system.

But are the Muslims of France really assimilating to Republican secularism? A recent poll by the highly-respected IFOP institute suggests not and that there is a growing cultural cleavage between Muslims and non-Muslims in France.

The pollsters asked: “Do you understand the indignation regarding the publication of the Mohammed cartoons?” 73% of Muslims said yes, as against 29% of French people at large (including Muslims).

69% of Muslims believe the press was wrong to publish such cartoons as “a useless provocation,” as against 31% for the general population.

66% of Muslims believe it is right to prosecute Charlie Hebdo for publishing such cartoons, as against only 21% for the general population.

18% of Muslims – about 2 million people – “do not condemn” or “are indifferent to” the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attacks. The figure rises to 26% for young Muslims (aged 15-24). Interestingly, the proportion of Muslims aged 15-17 refusing to condemn the attacks rose from 1% in 2016 to 22% in 2020. This makes for a very large pool of terrorist sympathizers and potential Islamic terrorists.

Finally, 40% of Muslims in France “put their religious convictions ahead of the [French] Republic’s values.”

The figure rises to 74% for Muslims under 25.

All this raises dire questions for France’s future as a society divided along ethno-religious lines. In 2016, Jérôme Fourquet – a leading pollster – estimated that 18% of babies in France were given Muslim first names. This constantly-rising figure represents a critical mass easily large enough to sustain a religious subculture quite at odds with of the old generation of aging left-wing secularist and “assimilationist” Boomers and Jews.

For left-wing Boomers and Jews, anti-racist colorblindness and the holocaust are effectively a religion – that’s why they support State censorship against what amounts to blasphemy against the sacred tropes. Muslims have their own concerns and religion however.

This has long caused problems for the French left – divided between White secularists and Arab/Turkish Muslims. As the French working class has defected en masse to nationalism, the far-left in particular has had to turn from militant colorblind secularism to left-wing racial and religious identity politics which resonates more with Blacks and Muslims.

The French racial nationalist website Démocratie participative writes:

[Far-left leader Jean-Luc] Mélenchon knows very well how his bread is buttered, and it isn’t with Bernard-Henri Lévy. He does not hesitate to encourage this political realignment by comparing Charle Hebdo with the far-right because of its attacks against Islam. His goal is to forge a banlieu populism combining the leftism of smalltime bureaucrats and the Islamism of immigrant riffraff.

Mélenchon had explained the travails of another far-left party in 2012 saying: “Do you know why is the [New Anticapitalist Party] is screwed? Because you cannot transform a micro-movement of Jewish intellectuals of the Latin Quarter [in Paris] in a mass party of the Muslim banlieues.”

Mélenchon has in the past criticized Jewish activist organizations in France and has often ignored the Jews’ sensibilities. This is a sign of a decline of Jewish influence over a large portion of the increasingly Afro-Islamic French far-left.

It is hard for me to judge the state of play among Muslims in France.

Will French Arabs and Turks become the functional equivalent of Hispanics? That is to say, a fairly low-functioning and apolitical group, prone to educational failure, welfare use, and crime, but not particularly capable of revolutionary activity. In this scenario, Islam and headscarves become of no more than folkloric interest and politically Muslims become little more than voters at the social-democratic trough.

Or will Muslims in France maintain a distinct culture, a parallel society, at once alien and capable of domination? That is the Soumission scenario.

And while I have lived in many multicultural neighborhoods and had many exchanges, typically productive, with Arabs, I cannot tell you which scenario is more likely.

Anyway, expect many more aging French leftist secularist cartoonists to bite the dust at the hands of their Muslim guests. As the Boomers and their inane obsessions pass away, things will simultaneously get much worse and somewhat better. The hegemonic postwar culture will dissolve and in its wake a thousand stupidities, and few truths, will bloom.

The French colorblind secularist left to make way for left-wing ethno-religious identity politics. As Blacks and Muslims in France assert themselves as Blacks and Muslims, more and more native French will awaken to their own identity and organize on that basis.

Note

[1] Even Marine Le Pen’s National Rally piled on against Valeurs, proving yet again that her “nationalist” party is an epiphenomenal manifestation of the French politico-media system and exists only by the tolerable limits set by that system.

 
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  1. 66% of Young Muslims in France Want Blasphemy to Punished by Law

    It’s already the case.

    The new religion of the West is Jew-black-homo worship.

    Blacksphemy is not allowed.

    Bl-ass-phemy is not allowed.

    • Replies: @Trinity
    , @VICB3
  2. Talha says:

    POLL: 66% of Young Muslims in France Want Blasphemy Punished by Law

    Peace.

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Adûnâi
  3. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Interestingly, the proportion of Muslims aged 15-17 refusing to condemn the attacks rose from 1% in 2016 to 22% in 2020. This makes for a very large pool of terrorist sympathizers and potential Islamic terrorists.

    This is most definitely a problem. Sympathy for vigilantism (even aimed at morons like Charlie Hebdo) is NOT a good sign for any society.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  4. Blasphemy against traditional religion has always (until very recent decadent and depraved times) been regarded as non-protected speech. Today, in France, blasphemy against religion is OK if not mandatory, church burnings are great, pissing on Jesus is art, women on beaches must be forced-stripped by police, etc. But Holocaust-worship is obligatory.

    Muslims are in the forefront of the movement to return France and the rest of the West to sane traditional values. Christians and traditionalists should support them.

  5. Hebdo vs. Muslims is a sort of “toad fucks viper” situation (to use the Russian expression). No matter who wins, actual French people lose.

    While educational underattainment seems comparable, I would argue that Muslims are far worse than Hispanics for the long-term viability of France, at least as a traditional nation-state.

    Hispanics assimilate to white American norms much more readily. Indeed, one may view them as modestly lower IQ white proles who enjoy football (the European kind), are more favorably disposed towards socialism, and have healthier anti-neocon instincts. In many parts of the US, such as Texas and Inland California, they are seamlessly melding into the US lower class. It is amusing to think these people may eventually come to constitute the GOP’s core voting bloc, but I believe that this is what will eventually happen.

    Muslims, or at least the Muslims that Europe gets, feel much more “foreign”. While some of them securalize and so “boil off”, most do not, and the prevalence of close cousin marriage gives them much greater staying power as self-contained communities into the far future. If they are true Muslims, they will also owe their primary loyalties to the ummah, not to France.

  6. g2k says:

    Yawn, this whole debate is very “old-normal”. Given that in a decent number of municipalities in France you now have to wear a Niqab (mask but it has the same effect) on an otherwise empty street, because of Corona and not Islam, it kind of begs the question, who cares? France is probably a couple of years behind Anglo-land on this, but “woke-capital” will now take care of any blasphemers, with the exception of a few old, indepently wealthy cranks (who’ll be gone in a decade anyway), long before any stabbings.

    • LOL: Iris
  7. Talha says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    “So where then are you going?” (81:26)

    Wa salaam.

    [MORE]

    “I tried to have fun in parties, I tried to socialize, I tried to do all these kinds of things.

    I had evrything anyone could have dreamed of having in a Star’s life.

    It was strange to be prostrated, it was just like two mountains fell of my shoulder when I bowed down.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvTz091fW5I

  8. I find GD commentary as putting a bigger light on the loss of morality and ethos in France and its Euro French majority than exposing any backwardness with their large North African Muslim immigrant community.

    The latter at least have a sense of moral decency, they are not into denigrating the religious symbols of others to suit yet another. While the fake secular but actually Zionized France of today has been expunged of its Catholic moral foundation that were centuries old. While extreme wrongs had been propagated by their Catholic dominated overseers, more havoc and mayhem surely occurred happened after their crazed secular revolution, which seems to have destroyed their moral compass. Look at the French military excursions into their neighboring lands and their colonial menace and pillaging that took place thereafter in Africa / Asia. Millions massacred to serve a few.

    While most experts have outed the Charlie Hebdo events as some sort of semi-state sponsored False Flag, I personally find the French logic, illogical.

    It is all legal and acceptable to denounce and denigrate in the most vile manner the figures of Jesus and Mohammed and their teachings, but not to question the Holocaust or the Israeli narrative, a jail sentence awaits you.

    Really Guilluane Durocher is full of it, and so is his French right, which is now reeling as a Zio controlled colony called the French Republic. The French fake nationalist right only seek to pick a fight with the marginalized but probably more moral and ethical Muslim part of society and run from those that have gained full spectrum domination over their government, media, and economy.

    The French working and middle class is fighting a life and death battle for survival as depicted by their long and valiant Yellow Vest demonstrations that were ruthlessly put down. Is Guilluane Durocher joking with this commentary or trying to suckle up to his masters?

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Joe Levantine
  9. Religion has no standing in the modern world. It’s a dumbass searching desperately for a reason to exist, sometimes resorting to such haphazard techniques as giving refuge to illegal aliens in want of new followers.

    That’s why religion is mocked today; it has been surpassed by 20th century scientific discoveries and nobody can truly believe in God anymore. It has nothing to do with “degeneracy”. Religion has simply lost respect and can never attain it again. And religious people are only mad that their own faith in God is no longer tenable — not that some “tradition” has been violated. They simply feel like shit because they would prefer to keep the delusion alive — but that makes them feel like retarded clowns. They are afraid of scientific experiments, imperical measurements, and objective reality. You commenters say blasphemy should be punished, but I say religious belief should be punished.

  10. @JohnPlywood

    imperical measurements

    *emperical

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  11. Ron Unz says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Hispanics assimilate to white American norms much more readily. Indeed, one may view them as modestly lower IQ white proles who enjoy football (the European kind), are more favorably disposed towards socialism, and have healthier anti-neocon instincts. In many parts of the US, such as Texas and Inland California, they are seamlessly melding into the US lower class. It is amusing to think these people may eventually come to constitute the GOP’s core voting bloc, but I believe that this is what will eventually happen.

    Yes, that’s exactly right, though I’d really say more like “working-class” than “lower-class”…though given current American trends, there may not be much difference down the road.

    I remember back in the mid-1990s I was having lunch with Pat Buchanan in DC. At one point, I mentioned that America’s rapidly-growing Hispanic population had had an obvious and natural political leader, based upon such strong affinities in political ideology, cultural traits, personal background, and religion—namely Buchanan himself. Sometimes history takes an ironic turn…

  12. anon[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Islam is inherently blasphemous against Christianity, because it denies Christ’s divinity. And talking about “traditional religion” as if there should be an alliance between “believers” of all faiths is just American-style bs. France should either be a Catholic kingdom or a secular fascist dictatorship, in both models there isn’t a place for Muslims.

    • Agree: Pop Warner
    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    , @Moi
    , @Svigor
  13. How many young French cucks support prosecuting hate speech or bombing Isis?
    How many of your colour-blind boomers actually had a non-white neighbour or would give up even a dollar of their stolen wealth?

    Easy to be colour blind in 1960s white america or Europe when everyone’s the same colour.
    If liberalism were correctly classified a religion, it’d have the most extremists||

    Run along & call the dance of Frankish whores (ballet) art, while you sit around flexing your masculinity unarmed||

  14. @JohnPlywood

    Science says blacks r ppl, & being Gay is OK||

  15. Define “young Muslims in France”?

    French burka wearing “converts”?

    • Replies: @chuckywiz
  16. 99,99999% burka wearing Muslims in the Netherlands are “white” Dutch women…..

    Fact!

  17. These people are not North Africans or Middle Eastern….OBVIOUSLY!

    https://images.app.goo.gl/YKKytWAiVuzonXF8A

  18. Iris says:
    @Tommy Thompson

    The latter at least have a sense of moral decency, they are not into denigrating the religious symbols of others to suit yet another.

    Exactly so, TT.

    For the honest uninformed American readers, and for the dishonest not-so-crypto-Zionist posting on this thread, it is important to remind what sort of “intellectual” cartoon covers Charlie Hebdo has produced about the most holy symbols of Christianity:

    Jesus sodomizing God and being sodomized by the Holy Spirit:

    Jesus with male genitalia as a face opening his eyes to child abuse in the Church:

    Baby Jesus being born where he belongs, in a toilet seat so he gets flushed:

    My work takes me frequently to Muslim majority countries. I know one thing for sure: if anybody there would have dared producing such cartoons about the Lord Jesus-Christ, they would probably not even have made it to prison and would have been lynched in the streets before.

    At least Muslims have consistency; shame us Europeans have no decency left.

  19. @JohnPlywood

    #9 says

    Religion has no standing in the modern world. It’s a dumbass searching desperately for a reason to exist, sometimes resorting to such haphazard techniques as giving refuge to illegal aliens in want of new followers

    Well if that is true and to be believed and accepted why is the Zionist state of Israel such an untouchable and and over praised subject. So many Westerners cannot hold themselves from heaping praise and adulation to it, bloody short history and all.

    Is the recently founded state of Israel not based on an ancient religious callings and doctrines that may include the legitimizing of the ethnic cleansing of another people from their land and country? Confused and Contradictory as it may be, but largely unquestioned or strongly supported by your so called Secular Scientific Western Culture including the French Nationalist Right..

    Whatever suits your media and political masters seems acceptable, like Jews gathering for a Alieya immigration to Israel and the bulldozing of Palestine’s communities. Are we to understand this is not backward religious fanaticism?

    While if Muslim North African immigrants wear a Burka or bow down to pray, wow, oh my god, (pardon the expression) they are religious fanatics to be denigrated and a threat to secular France. Contradictions Galore in your logic.

    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  20. It’s the “right to prosecute” Charlie Hebdo, for publishing a cartoon … that’s where it gets nasty.

    The really nasty thing about Islam is the fusion of Church and State. It’s fundamental to Islam that there is no freedom of religion, only freedom of worship in your designated religion.

    It struck me particularly with the jailing of the mayor of Jakarta.

  21. Ron Unz says:
    @Iris

    …it is important to remind what sort of “intellectual” cartoon covers Charlie Hebdo has produced about the most holy symbols of Christianity…

    Sure, I remember seeing those during the original Charlie Hebdo controversy. But you also might have mentioned that a few years earlier, one of the leading Charlie Hebdo cartoonists made a mildly snide remark about the son of a leading French politician marrying into a wealthy Jewish family (maybe it was Sarkozy or something), and he was immediately purged from the publication for “anti-Semitism”…

    So we have a satirical magazine that publishes the vilest possible insults against Islam and Christianity, but regards even the mildest sort of criticism of Jews as an immediate firing offense. Hmmm…

    Another “odd” thing about this article was that it failed to mention that Alain Sorel was recently sentenced to a year in prison for producing a parody of a Charlie Hebdo cover that was regarded as disrespectful of the Jewish Holocaust. So France *already* has “blasphemy punished by law”, but 66% of Muslims think it’s unfair that such criminal penalties only apply to some “blasphemies”…

  22. Talha says:
    @Iris

    I didn’t know they were this vile. Wow!

    I honestly can’t believe that believing Christians wouldn’t also be up at arms (legally) about this.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Coconuts
    , @Whitewolf
    , @chris
  23. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    The really nasty thing about Islam is the fusion of Church and State.

    The “fusion of Church and State” is a feature of every religion, especially Liberalism. That is, if you claim to believe in a particular religion, it naturally follows that you should want that religion’s vision of society to be actualized. If your religion teaches “thou shalt not kill,” then of course you should want murder to be illegal; if your religion teaches “drawing X is bad” then of course you should want to ban drawing X.

    People who claim to support a detached “separation of church and state” are lying to themselves; they’re simply offering a rationalization for backing a different belief system than their professed one.

    The problem with France has nothing to do Islamic views on separation of church and state; in fact, France would be much better off if they never entertained that delusion and remained de jure Catholic. Rather, the problem in France is that you have two (or more) radically different belief systems competing in a shared space.

    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
    , @Svigor
  24. Coconuts says:
    @Talha

    In other neighbouring countries it wouldn’t happen or there would be more background explanation for it (e.g. Spain).

    I never understood the extremes of French secularism, this kind of secularism looks retarded or morally degenerate in itself.

    • Replies: @Talha
  25. Coconuts says:
    @JohnPlywood

    “That’s why religion is mocked today; it has been surpassed by 20th century scientific discoveries and nobody can truly believe in God anymore.”

    This is pure wish fulfillment. Religion is resurgent even in the secular West.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  26. Iris says:
    @Ron Unz

    So we have a satirical magazine that publishes the vilest possible insults against Islam and Christianity, but regards even the mildest sort of criticism of Jews as an immediate firing offense.

    Veteran French cartoonist Siné, a free-spirit and die-hard anarchist with no respect whatsoever for power, made a joke about the coming wedding of Jean Sarkozy. Commenting that Sarkozy was converting to Judaism to marry a young lady who, as heir of the Darty family, was Jewish and rich, Siné concluded that the groom would “go far in life“.

    For anybody with a shred of honesty, it was obvious that Siné was mocking the Sarkozys, whose former president father is notorious for his reckless ambition and greedy opportunism. Nonetheless, Siné got immediately sacked from Charlie Hebdo for “anti-Semitism”.

    Charlie Hebdo depicts Jesus, Mohamed, the Pope and the catholic clergy in all sorts of vile and degrading positions; it never does so for Rabbis or any symbol of the Jewish religion.

    Politicians don’t escape its satire: there has been many degrading covers of Presidents Hollande, Macron and their spouses, and even recently, one of President Xi cosy in bed with a pangolin, directed of course to the stupid public who hasn’t yet understood that “China did Covid 19”.
    But strangely enough, there is never any cartoon of Bernard Henry Levy, France’s Zionist Pro-Consul and biggest war criminal alive, who has presided over the destruction of Yugoslavia, Libya and Syria.

    Let’s not forget about the pedophile and rapists, of which France has its fair share.
    Roman Polanski keeps coming in the news when new victims speak up. Epstein had a strong presence in Paris and his main provider of teenage models was French-Israeli Brunel.
    Weinstein assaulted a number of known French actresses who spoke up in the press.
    But none of those members of the Jewish community ever graced Charlie’s cover, who instead chose to present Tariq Ramadan, the only known Muslim personality vaguely accused of mistreating his adult mistresses.

    Charlie Hebdo are despicable, even more so because of their alleged irreverent posture.

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Sya Beerens
  27. Talha says:
    @Coconuts

    the extremes of French secularism

    French secularism is the OG, it seems it wants to set the gold standard for secularism.

    Peace.

  28. ‘“Do you understand the indignation regarding the publication of the Mohammed cartoons?” 73% of Muslims said yes, as against 29% of French people at large (including Muslims).’

    Nu? I understand the indignation. What kind of an idiot would not understand the indignation?

    You could ask Christians the same question regarding ‘Piss Christ’ and get the same answer.

    • Agree: Talha
  29. Do not revile those to whom they pray beside ALLAH, lest they wrongfully revile ALLAH through ignorance. Thus, unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do. [6: 108}

    This imperative applies to Muslims alone. Violation of it isn’t a legally actionable offense, though it’s not characteristic of faith. Adherence to it cultivates an atmosphere of mutual respect for folk of various convictions.

    There is no compulsion in religion. Guidance stands out clear from from error. And whoever rejects false gods and keeps faith with ALLAH has grasped a firm handhold which never breaks. ALLAH is Hearer, Knower. [2: 256]

    If there is no compulsion in religion, then what is the purpose of supporting legislation to effectively coerce respect toward any religion, including Islam? If, of itself, guidance stands out clear from error, then by what rationale can it be forced under color of law?

    Elementary Islamic jurisprudence informs us that Qur’anic imperative supersedes what is presented in hadith. Thus, where a conflict exists between the two, The Qur’an trumps hadith. The entire basis of “blasphemy law” in post-Abbasid jurisprudence is predicated upon hadith and biographic material, not The Qur’an.

    While I share their revulsion at the material of Charlie Hebdo and the like, I’m not confident the anti-blasphemy advocates appreciate the ramifications of enacting such legislation. Once it’s ensconced in law, there is no rationale by which to prevent other efforts to proscribe expression considered “objectionable” by a constituency of influence. Today’s parameters of blasphemy will inevitably expand to include particular types of writing, art, music, and cinema, all subjectively defined as “forbidden” depending upon which way the political winds blow.

    How can these Muslims be so certain they won’t be hoisted by their own petard?

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Ahem
  30. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    It is amusing to think these people may eventually come to constitute the GOP’s core voting bloc, but I believe that this is what will eventually happen.

    The GOP might very well need to adopt a more leftist flavor (at least on economic policy) for that to occur, IMHO.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  31. @Kevin Barrett

    An interesting viewpoint, Kevin. But I think you are wrong. Religion arises because humans are intelligent enough to know that they will die, but not intelligent enough to know there is no supernatural remedy to that certain death. And then it is exploited by the elite to impose some mass-insanity on the rest of us. The blasphemy business is one way it is forced on us.

    That merchant everyone pretends was illiterate, as though any merchant could be, was obsessed with the ambition of being a prophet, the best, the final. He wrote a book a large part of which is about how every tribe or nation that did not become followers of the particular prophet God sent them was obliterated, vanished totally. He starts with Noah’s particular people, totally wiped out by the Flood for not following their prophet Noah, but goes on with stories of about five other nations, including the Midianites, exterminated down to the last baby on God’s orders because they didn’t become faithful followers of their prophet Balaam.

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  32. @Tommy Thompson

    That’s a religion, Tommy. That not even the mildest, well-justified criticism of the Jews can be made is a religion, a mass-insanity imposed on the masses by their / our rulers.

  33. zimriel says:

    I’m for it. The Quran is filled with blasphemies against Our Lord and any “Frenchman” believing in it, needs to do time in French prison and expelled from the country.
    Sounds like a plan for all civilised countries in fact.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  34. martin_2 says:

    I don’t think people in the West have turned away from religion because of the success of science. Atheists mock the notion of “the God of the Gaps”, but if anything those gaps seem to have become bigger.

    I think the real reason is that the Universe shows no sign of being moral. As someone once said, if the Universe was proposed as an experiment then it would never have passed the ethics committee.

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Coconuts
    , @Iris
  35. @Anatoly Karlin

    I could not just press lol but – the toad fucks viper part of your comment is – ahh, I love it already!

    George Marchais will soldier on, though. – He will always be looking for crooked things to do. I think he is just such a kind of guy.

  36. @Iris

    Charlie Hébdo did some really impressive things and – still is – hilariously funny at times. But, but, but – they lack something which is baked into the intellectual DNA of Europe, and what should just not be forfeited – they lack – – – critical self-reflection of their own perspective.

    • Replies: @Iris
  37. @Mr. XYZ

    The GOP might very well need to adopt a more leftist flavor (at least on economic policy) for that to occur, IMHO.

    How is giving total and unquestioned power to the state good for anyone, other than the state? There is nothing in that recipe for their traditional consistuencies.

  38. @Ron Unz

    So France *already* has “blasphemy punished by law”, but 66% of Muslims think it’s unfair that such criminal penalties only apply to some “blasphemies”…

    Your conclusion here seems just right – if one accepts the premise, that The Holocaust-discourse has crossed the line of a worldly (=historical, factual thing) to a somewhat sacred (= otherworldy, transcendental thing).

    That’s what the Heidelbergian historian Rolf Peter Sieferle says in his quite densely argued essay Finis Germania, by the way. Sieferle, who was a 68er Marxist but with the years turned rather right-wing and was quite critical of immigration, said that Europe was basically secularized – with the exception of the Holocaust, which now is being treated in such a way of reasoning and arguing, which was formerly exclusively attributed to religion.

    He said too, that by no means should the Right try to doubt the enormous crimes carried out by Nazi Germany – especially to Jews. – As a historian, he said, that such attempts would be utterly false and despicable.

    But nevertheless, he claimed, that it would come at a dire price to turn the Holocaust-discourse into something like (or quite close to) a secular religion.

  39. @Ron Unz

    The low IQ Mexican peasants that are invading America are by default lower class in a society with enough higher IQ whites and Asians.

  40. Or will Muslims in France maintain a distinct culture, a parallel society, at once alien and capable of domination? That is the Soumission scenario.

    What Michel Houellebecq undoubtedly gets is the strength of the Muslim-culture – in a Europe which is actually losing on the industrial front big style to China, Japan, Taiwan, Korea. – Muslims still have metaphysical roots and close family ties, and this does make them strong in a spiritually exhausted and (Douglas Murray – The Strange Death of Europe) and economically badly suffering Europe. – I personally am not sure about the “dominance” part though. I know quite a few Muslims who are just happy to have escaped the boundaries of their culture. What some of them absolutely not get is just how cowardly German officials react to the criminal and – oh yes, that too – to the threats which go along with the laugablly easy possiblity to immigrate into our welfare system. – How this will play out -will there be within a few years, more Muslims and Jews (!) than Christians in the immigration-critical AfD? – I’d not be utterly surprised, I have to say.

    Btw. – Thilo Sarrazin’s new Book on this topic is out: “The Stae at its Borders (and limits)” (“Der Staat an seinen Grenzen”) – that would be a useful thing: To translate this book into French and English, methinks. That this does not happen much with the work of Thilo Sarrazin shows me, how intellectually weak France is (and the anglosphere too).

    • Replies: @martin_2
  41. Iris says:
    @AnonStarter

    How can these Muslims be so certain they won’t be hoisted by their own petard?

    Dear AS, this is a great comment but you and GD unfortunately missed the point; Ron Unz didn’t.

    French secularism (Laïcité) was indeed supposed to facilitate and protect freedom of speech and liberty of conscience. In practice however, it has morphed into a system whereby there is total freedom of insulting others for the Organised Jewish Community, but censorship, fines and prison for everybody else’s objectionable opinions.

    This is what young French Muslims are seeing and recognizing by demanding people’s faiths to be protected by law; their “gut” thinking is actually ahead of that of political analysts.
    French social liberalism has failed, destroyed by the blatant double standards applied depending on the constituency, a destruction in which the extortionate and striking privileges granted to the Organised Jewish Community have played the primary role.

    • Agree: Tommy Thompson
  42. martin_2 says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Someone once said on this forum that what the Christians (as well as the liberals) lack and what the Muslims conspicuously have is a “Warrior Class”, that is to say, men aged between say eighteen and forty five who are willing and able to fight on behalf of their community.

    Christianity is soft and feminine and is seen as a pushover now, whilst David Cameron spoke about “Muscular Liberalism”, which is a fantasy since working class white men, a potential warrior class, at least in the UK but I dare say everywhere else, are never going to fight on behalf of gays and transvestites and all the other fringe causes close to the heart of the Liberal Establishment.

    Some time ago Muslims in Birmingham (UK) refused to send their children to school because they didn’t like their children being taught about gays. Somehow the local Labour Party MP, a white woman of course, contrived to blame the stand off on White Men. The politicians had the law and the police on their side, but the Muslims would not back down. Their faith is more infinitely more important than secular law, especially law that is so contrary to normal human sentiments. There is, as you say, no metaphysical stuffing to liberalism and liberal causes.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @anonymous
  43. Coconuts says:
    @martin_2

    I don’t think people in the West have turned away from religion because of the success of science. Atheists mock the notion of “the God of the Gaps”, but if anything those gaps seem to have become bigger.

    I think the real reason is that the Universe shows no sign of being moral. As someone once said, if the Universe was proposed as an experiment then it would never have passed the ethics committee.

    As I said in a reply to John Plywood, I don’t think people in the West did actually turn against religion because otherwise the emergence and strength of the Cult of Woke is very hard to explain. It seems like the number of people who really adopted a naturalistic and scientific worldview and can hold to it consistently is limited to a minority, even if many more people declare themselves officially non-religious in surveys.

    Strangely part of the basis of the whole Social Justice fixation is a persistent crude belief that nature is inherently moral and just, that minorities of bad actors (i.e. white males) have deceived people about obvious egalitarian truths for their own self interest.

  44. @Iris

    Sarkozy lives in Morocco…..for some reason

  45. Ahem says:
    @AnonStarter

    Your quote from the koran: “There is no compulsion in religion” was abrogated by the verse of the sword.

    Nice try.

    There are over 300 abrogated verses in the koran, The verse of the sword is responsible for almost half of the abrogations. In such cases a “nice” verse has been routinely abrogated by a barbaric verse, such as the aforementioned verse of the sword.

    If you have made no effort to study the doctrines of a religion then you cannot possibly make anything resembling an intelligent comment on same.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  46. @Tommy Thompson

    “ While most experts have outed the Charlie Hebdo events as some sort of semi-state sponsored False Flag, I personally find the French logic, illogical.”

    And so, most probably, the Bataclan and the Nice rampaging truck events ( Bataclan was clearly insinuated by the Illuminati’s mouthpiece’ The Economist’ in the last issue of 2014.

    It strikes me as strange that these events tend to implicate the Muslims while at the same time Muslim immigration is condoned. Are the PTB trying to foment their age old strategy of divide and conquer?

    French morality has suffered enormously under the secular reign. France, in a nutshell, has moved from Victor Hugo to Henri Bernard Lévy. It all looks like the demise of the French identity is not too far away.

    • Replies: @Iris
  47. Nodwink says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Another revert jihadi goon. White trash vermin.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  48. @Iris

    Great comment, great insight, as usual. Thanks.

    • Thanks: Iris
  49. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    #20

    The really nasty thing about Islam is the fusion of Church and State. It’s fundamental to Islam that there is no freedom of religion, only freedom of worship in your designated religion

    I have worked in 4 Islamic countries as well as many Euro countries and traveled to many others around the globle. Never saw or heard about what you mention, with the partial exception of the Wahabist Kingdom of Arabia, where persecution maybe reserved only for Muslim minorities.

    there is more freedom of religion and worship in most Muslim majority countries than in many fake secular countries of the West (including France and the USA) that ban the construction of Mosques and Hindu temples, etc in many of their regions.

    I traveled through southern Spain not so long ago and got to learn that even in the Middle Ages the Muslim principalities there practiced a very workable and fair religious tolerance and multi religious societies that was unheard of in the Euro West until the secular national states arose.

    Each religious community there was free to practice their religion, language, culture and legal system without interference from the government unless one tried to step on the toes of the other, which basically did not happen until the Reconquista moved in with their fascistic Catholic domination and Inquisition Reign of Terror, which was basically a take Catholicism or leave the country policy for non-Catholics.

    My understanding is that Muslim states and countries of recent times or the far past did not practice religious persecution in any overt or unjust manner of non-Muslim minorities, despite what many White Euro Nationalists will claim. Sure Muslims got some preferential treatments like many other majority groups dominating a country, but not always, I came to understand, that Jews in the middle ages and Christians in modern times, that these minorities received equal or even preferential treatment by the rulers who harbored more fears of potential rebellion by their Muslim majorities. Otherwise preferential treatment is left to select tribal or regional groups that are deemed most loyal.

    I have always been amazed when I traveled with first time US visitors to the Middle East that they were surprized that Christians were not persecuted, but rather full participants in the ruling, economic, social, cultural life of their home countries, the diametrical opposite of their pre-programmed narrative suggesting hate and violence. That fair treatment of minorities cannot be said for all Western or claimed Christian dominated states for Muslims and others and certainly is not part of the state of Israel construct, a Jew first exclusionary state.

    • Thanks: Sya Beerens
    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
    , @TKK
  50. Iris says:
    @martin_2

    I think the real reason is that the Universe shows no sign of being moral. As someone once said, if the Universe was proposed as an experiment then it would never have passed the ethics committee.

    This is actually an ancient and indeed profound question, to which believers in a Supreme Being often fail to find a convincing enough answer.

    It was often illustrated by atheist Dostoevsky in his novels.
    In the “Karamazov Brothers“, in the famous “Rebellion” chapter, rational intellectual Ivan crushes the religious feelings of young monk Aliocha, by providing unbearable examples of suffering inflicted upon children and asking how the belief in an all-powerful God could accept that.

    Nothing ever can make us accept the suffering of children. But faith and rational mind belong to two separate realms, and the former believes that our existence on Earth is only a blink compared to the afterlife.

  51. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    You should read the Qur’an more carefully. The pattern it describes is simple and universal: Prophets call their people to truth and justice and compassion. The rich, egotistical elite rejects and persecutes them, preferring power and comfort and pleasure in the life of this world to the treasures of the spirit which persist into the afterlife.

    The egotistical elite prospers for a while. But in the end they taste death, losing everything, and face the truth about how horribly they have wronged their own souls. Meanwhile the society dominated by an increasingly corrupt elite, having rejected the prophetic call to truth and justice, eventually collapses into ruins.

    If you had eyes to see and ears to hear and a heart to understand, you would see this process unfolding around you.

    • Agree: HeebHunter
    • Thanks: Tommy Thompson
    • Replies: @Socrates
    , @Olivier1973
  52. @Tommy Thompson

    Islamic tolerance of Christianity in the Middle East vacillated from tenuous to overtly hostile. During the Fatimid reign in Egypt, Christians were obliged to put a mark on their clothing. Most Christians Egyptians would tell you about stories of persecution especially in the countryside of which we saw many manifestations during the brief reign of the Muslim Brotherhood with many churches blown up in the midst of Christian worshipping and the impossibility to build or even do minor reparations to churches without a presidential decree from the time of secular Nasser’s regime. The Christians of the Ottoman Empire suffered enormously, with the Armenian genocide and the great famine by design in mostly Christian Mount Lebanon During the First World War. The Christians of Syria and Iraq were subject to many pogroms throughout history.

    Though one thing that we should admit is that Christian suffering tended to increase with Western invasions starting from the crusades to the establishment of Israel to the latest wars against Iraq. Another immutable reality is that secularism among Muslims in any multi confessional society is simply not an option; just notice the reaction to the Muslim woman who wanted to convert to Christianity in order to marry her Christian husband in Malaysia, a majority Muslim country with a most liberal form of Islam and whose constitution guarantees the right of free worship. The top court of Malaysia ruled that no Muslim can convert to other faiths without the consent of the Shariah court. In secular Europe you can convert as you please.

    • Thanks: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Tommy Thompson
  53. @Elmer's Washable School Glue

    People who claim to support a detached “separation of church and state” are lying to themselves; they’re simply offering a rationalization for backing a different belief system than their professed one.

    The nature of the detachment has changed with time. Compared to clericalism, secularism and the separation of church and state were a huge improvement. The problem is that troublemakers have pushed the boundaries of secular humanism to make it a religion in its own right, with beliefs that to many citizens are both alien and hostile. Secularism has adopted the vices of clericalism that it was supposed to extinguish.

    France took over 200 years to go through this cycle; in Ireland it has taken only 30 years.

    The problem is, where do we go from here? The Christian hierarchy nowadays is impotent, and so the idea of a religious state seems relatively benign. But if we made that choice, before long we would have clerical child abuse scandals again, and power in the hands of les éminences rouges.

  54. There’s something so childish, so petulant, so Jewish about blasphemy.

    Blasphemy, especially against Christians, is about as edgy as the artwork of Banksy. Let us know when (((Charlie Hebdo))) does something really daring like mocking “the holocaust”.

    • LOL: Sya Beerens
    • Replies: @Exalted Cyclops
  55. @Joe Levantine

    #52

    Yes, I read that the Shia Fatamids of Egypt had their issues with their Christian minorities and even with their Muslim majorities which rebelled against their very self serving rule after they failed to defend against the first invasion of the Euro Crusade, which also did not do much for bettering the lot of the Eastern Christians anyhow.

    The Armenian Genocide was a Young Turk (Secularized, Masonic -Judeo led) enterprise, rather an Islamic undertaking as most of the Middle East anyhow supported the Armenians, though many Armenians seem to view things simply in basic black/white religious terms. Again the Ottoman persecution against Arab Christians had more to do with their rebellion against the empire and drive for independence rather than a purely religious persecution in WWI, and was not much worse than that meted out to their Arab Muslim brethen at the time, who were largely in open rebellion to the Ottoman rule.

    Yes, obviously there was societal discrimination between the two religious competitors and surely some mild persecution depending on the social and political situation at the time, but genocides and mass forced conversions ala the Crusades and Spanish Reconquista / Inquisition have not been historically documented.

    An incisive observation of a long past Anthropologist friend of mine many years ago, was that minorities in any country will always have a tendency to exaggerate their position of being singled out for discrimination (whether true or not) and always place blame for their failures (or being by passed for position) on their minority status. He said psychologically it was always better to try to think and act like you are part of the majority, as that will place fewer unseen obstacles to success and full participation.

    We can see where Euro-Jews went with their over self remorse and self pity as a supposedly excluded and persecuted minority and ended up to now be in a supreme position in the leading countries of the West.

  56. Talha says:
    @Ahem

    Your quote from the koran: “There is no compulsion in religion” was abrogated by the verse of the sword.

    Quote a recognized Muslim authority/source for this claim.

    There are over 300 abrogated verses in the koran

    According to which scholar of exegesis?
    “…some did indeed say that up to 200 verses were abrogated. This, again, is based on a broader understanding of “abrogation.” Others said less than 100. Imam Suyuti stated that only 19 verses of the Qur’an were abrogated, and Shah Wali Allah agreed with Imam Suyuti on only 5 of those 19.”
    https://seekersguidance.org/answers/general-counsel/jihad-abrogation-in-the-quran-the-verse-of-the-sword/

    The verse of “no compulsion” is fully in play; forced conversions are not allowed.

    If you have made no effort to study the doctrines of a religion then you cannot possibly make anything resembling an intelligent comment on same.

    I’ve studied Islamic jurisprudence with multiple qualified muftis of the Hanafi school (in original medieval source texts) for over ten years – can you write your name in Arabic if your life depended on it?

    Peace.

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  57. songbird says:

    Whether Muhammad appears in South Park or Hebdo is really of little consequence to Europeans. In the case of France, what really matters is how many Muslims (and non-Muslims) think it is okay to leech off the ethnic French and dispossess them through infinite invasion.

    The answer is, of course, too many. And it is that reality, which is the real problem, is treated as blasphemy.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  58. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Always with the false choices. There is no side to choose, when both are equally against Jesus. If Jesus were to return, why would Jesus go back there, when all his people are elsewhere?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  59. Stan says:
    @Ron Unz

    Hispanics assimilate to white American norms much more readily. Bull

    Look at the legislation Hipanics are passing in California.

    Last year California’s Assembly passed its ethnic-studies bill known as AB 331 by a 63-8 vote. Then the state department of education put forward a model curriculum so extreme and ethnocentric that the state Senate’s Democratic supermajority balked. The curriculum said among other things that “within Ethnic Studies, scholars are often very critical of the system of capitalism as research has shown that Native people and people of color are disproportionately exploited within the system.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/californias-radical-indoctrination-11598829048

    • Thanks: RadicalCenter
  60. @Stan

    ‘Hispanics assimilate to white American norms much more readily. Bull’

    In my experience, Ron’s right about that. I remember teaching in Los Angeles; when I taught in a ‘white’ high school about half the kids would still have Hispanic names — but they would act ‘white.’

    There was a Hispanic teacher I knew at another — definitely Hispanic — high school. I only realized she was Hispanic when I noticed that she moved the same way the Mexican girls did. Otherwise, she was ‘white.’

    She once said something to the effect that ‘we Mexicans are really like the Jews or the Italians — we came here, and we assimilated. It’s just that in our case, more Mexicans kept coming.’

    And it was true. At Lincoln High School, the only second-generation Mexican kids were those whose parents were real losers. The overwhelming majority were either immigrants or the first generation to be born in US. Point is, most second-generation Mexicans had gone on out to suburbia and become some white dude’s neighbor who happened to like Carne Asada.

    I was talking to a second-generation Mexican carpenter I was using, and he started bitching about a Guatemalan we both knew. The Guatemalan was a hell of a worker — but you could practically hear the wind flutes when you dealt with him. Definitely not assimilated.

    Now, the Mexican carpenter was a Raiders fan, etc. Essentially, I found myself relating to him about the way I would to a working-class white from back East somewhere. Anyway, as he started in about Marcelino, I had an epiphany.

    On a continuum with me at one end and Marcelino at the other, Jaime was already a lot closer to me than he was to Marcelino. Between the three of us, the ‘we’ was more me and Jaime than Jaime and Marcelino.

    These guys turn into white people. All we need to do is quit letting more in.

  61. @Stan

    ‘Look at the legislation Hipanics are passing in California…’

    These aren’t Hispanics.

    One of the actual drawbacks to the Hispanic influx is that — rightly or wrongly — Hispanics are extremely cynical about politics and politicians. As a result, those who wind up getting elected reflect the actual needs, desires, and preferences of their constituents only very imperfectly.

    To get elected, politicians representing Hispanic constituencies play the usual big-city vested interest games: labor unions, etc. Beyond that, if anything they pander to white leftist tastes — so as to get the endorsements of newspapers, school teachers, etc.

    It’s all got nothing to do with what Juan Q. Automechanic wants or cares about.

  62. @Iris

    Dear AS, this is a great comment but you and GD unfortunately missed the point

    Actually, I did get that point, but my post was directed at the opinion itself rather than the current zeitgeist in which it is advanced. Whether or not a conscious exploitation of duplicitously applied law motivates those Muslims, I am obliged to state my opposition to the opinion, as it does not faithfully represent the fundamentalist orthodox view.

  63. @anon

    ‘Always with the false choices. There is no side to choose, when both are equally against Jesus. If Jesus were to return, why would Jesus go back there, when all his people are elsewhere?’

    Stray sheep and all that.

    …but to the point. They aren’t equally against Jesus. Muslims revere him as a prophet, and have religious strictures barring persecution of his followers.

    How can you compare that to ‘Piss Christ’ or what’s in the Talmud? Find a Muslim who has said what Sarah Silverman has said. Jews and secular whites can barely contain their hostility and contempt for Christianity. Islam at least meets Christianity part-way. It just seeks to politely differ.

    • Agree: Tommy Thompson
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @anon
    , @ivan
  64. FLASH POLL:

    85% of Caucasians in Western Countries want blasphemy against their Gods (the Jews) to continue to be punished by law.

    • LOL: Iris, ivan
  65. @Ahem

    If you have made no effort to study the doctrines of a religion then you cannot possibly make anything resembling an intelligent comment on same.

    *Ahem*

    I’ve been at it for thirty years now. And you?

  66. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    Interesting trends in that vein…
    “A slight majority of American adults say Jesus was a great teacher and nothing more during his lifetime, which several Christian leaders say is evidence today’s faithful are “drifting away” from traditional evangelist teachings.

    As earlier reported by The Christian Post, the 2020 survey conducted by Ligonier Ministries, a Florida-based Reform Church nonprofit, found 52 percent of U.S. adults say they believe Jesus Christ is not God — a belief that contradicts traditional teachings of the Bible through the Christian church, which state Jesus was both man and God.

    Nearly one-third of evangelicals in the survey agreed that Jesus isn’t God, compared to 65 percent who said ‘Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.’”
    https://www.newsweek.com/52-percent-americans-say-jesus-isnt-not-god-was-great-teacher-survey-says-1528617

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rufus Leakin
  67. @Anatoly Karlin

    ‘…Hispanics assimilate to white American norms much more readily…’

    Well, here, note that America is a culture built to assimilate immigrants. European states are — or at least were intended to be — ethnic monocracies. The whole notion of nationalism in Europe is built around the (polite fiction) that Germans, Frenchmen, Italians, Poles, Russians, etc, etc are unified by blood as well as culture.

    Here, on the contrary, we’ve openly taken in and absorbed everybody. You will be assimilated.

    That isn’t true of Europe. Notice their frantic attempts to rationalize outlawing hijabs, etc. They instinctively reject the newcomers, where we instinctively try to absorb them.

    This isn’t to say one’s better than the other. It’s just to note that Hispanics assimilate much more readily to American culture at least partly because anyone would assimilate much more readily to American culture.

  68. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    The whole notion of nationalism in Europe is built around the (polite fiction) that Germans, Frenchmen, Italians, Poles, Russians, etc, etc are unified by blood as well as culture.

    One that was given a huge push in the last World War when millions of various Europeans were forced here and there to accommodate that “polite fiction”.

    Interestingly, my wife’s ancestors are actually of German origin that settled in Sweden (first Norway) relatively recently, but, since WW2, they do not emphasize that history at all and consider themselves to be fully-flag-flying-Swedes.

    It seems what Europe was originally really looking to do was import cheap labor from its overseas colonies. Perhaps the smarter thing would have been to have short-term work-immigration for a temporary stay of 10-15 years without ability to extend stay or something. Maybe akin to what Gulf states have, but far more decent and humane. The guy comes, brings his family, stays in designated neighborhoods, earns a bunch of money to take back with him and live well in his old country.

    Peace.

  69. Newsweek is published in a deep hole near the Iranian border so that they could get as close to hell as they possibly could. I don’t worry about their ignorant and distorted polls, I worry about anyone gullible enough to BELIEVE them…

  70. @Talha

    Then move BACK to some Muslim-run third world nation – Isn’t THAT simple? Why did you LEAVE there in the first place? So you could try to convert the entire nation of France? Miserable losers…

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
    , @anonymous
  71. Talha says:
    @Rufus Leakin

    I don’t live in France. Ask those Muslims that did move there.

    So you could try to convert the entire nation of France?

    That’s the only reason Muslims should be there in the first place.

    Peace.

  72. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Because Jesus is not a lowly prophet to the Christians, Jesus is their hope. Also just because Muslims pretend to hold Jesus in some esteem doesn’t mean they don’t routinely kill/subjugate Christians when the moment arises. What would they think of Jesus turning water into wine? While I’m no fan of Silverman she does physically kill far less. Atheists like Muslims are not the people Christians should look to as allies as there are none there. There are many sects of Christian denominations (freedom of religion) some may be right and some may be wrong in their practices but it’s a choice, a freedom based on individual belief in Jesus or a possibly a deception, I wouldn’t want to be the one who leads Jesus people astray. I don’t think Jesus would travel around forcing people to commit to him. It’s a choice, but if you met, found or heard Jesus, you may want to stay with Jesus and stop removing his name to suit others who aren’t Christian and who wouldn’t be persecuted for their belief in Jesus.
    (Some of this may not pertain to you personally but I just like to throw everything in to one short blob.)

    • Agree: ivan
    • Disagree: Tommy Thompson
    • Replies: @Tommy Thompson
    , @anonymous
  73. @Rufus Leakin

    “Little recent commenting history”

  74. @Johnny Smoggins

    Blasphemy, especially against Christians, is about as edgy as the artwork of Banksy. Let us know when (((Charlie Hebdo))) does something really daring like mocking “the holocaust”.

    You won’t see that happening until long after Homer Simpson stops eating doughnuts and barbecue.

    • LOL: Talha
  75. Iris says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Charlie Hebdo did some really impressive things and – […] – they lack – – – critical self-reflection of their own perspective.

    The real Charlie Hebdo had an old tradition. It was created in 1970 to replace satirical magazine “Hara-Kiri” after it was banned for making a joke of General de Gaulle’s death, dryly comparing it to a passing after partying, in echo to a recent fire in a ball hall.

    Following the ban, Charlie was founded by the same veteran cartoonists Francois Cavanna and Professeur Choron, children of May 1968 and the epitome of French anarchist, trashy, anti-conformist, progressive and deeply humanist humour. They were many things but they were consistent in their rejection of social conformism under all its forms.

    After Charlie went bankrupt in the 80’s, it was re-launched with dodgy globalized capital in the 90’s, with Philippe Val as editorial Trojan horse . Val got rid of historic founder Professeur Choron, and progressively of other notable participants, transforming the magazine into an empty shell ready to endorse and participate into “the Clash of Civilisations”.

    By 2002, 9/11 had been executed and the time had come: Charlie overtly showed its new NeoCon credentials and published the Islamphobic ranting of Italian author Oriana Fallaci. The rest is history.

    Philippe Val is gay and had long formed a comedy duo, and possibly more, with Patrick Font, a convicted pedophile sent to prison for assaulting children, boys and girls.

    It is always the same pattern: globalized money coming out of the blue and propping up people with huge skeletons in their cupboards on the world scene of the Clash of Civilizations and Islamphobia.

    • Thanks: Joe Levantine, Dieter Kief
    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  76. Iris says:
    @Joe Levantine

    And so, most probably, the Bataclan and the Nice rampaging truck events ( Bataclan was clearly insinuated by the Illuminati’s mouthpiece’ The Economist’ in the last issue of 2014

    Indeed. The Toulouse, Bataclan and Nice Bastille Day attacks were obvious false flags that left blatant loose ends.

    In comparison, the Charlie Hebdo false flag was relatively well executed, with only minor hiccups: the traditional ID was left behind as a friendly wink to the public, and, according to the official photos, the terrorists found the time to leisurely replace the side mirrors of their escape car.

    However, however…..victims are not always cooperative when their loved ones are murdered.

    Famed cartoonist Georges Wolinski was murdered aged 80 in the Charlie Hebdo attack.
    His widow Maryse recalled in a book how four eye-witnesses of the attack saw the terrorist Kouachi brothers accompanied and driven by a third man, who disappeared and was never investigated by the police. Paris’police later put pressure on a witness to “forget” about the 3rd man, and French MSM carefully avoided even mentioning Mrs Wolinski’s revelations.

    https://blogs.mediapart.fr/jean63/blog/080216/mais-ou-est-donc-passe-le-3ieme-homme-celui-qui-ete-vu-lors-de-lattaque-charlie-hebdo

    Charlie Hebdo’s director was cartoonist Charb (Stéphane Charbonnier). He spent the night before his execution with his girlfriend Valérie M., who recalled how excited he was because some mysterious ME investors had promised to rescue the magazine from bankrupt with private funding. But he was also worried because he’d noticed a car with smoked windows parked for hours in surveillance at his place.

    Valerie M. recounted that just after Charb was killed, his flat was burgled but nothing was stolen except his laptop and paperwork. She deemed that his last activities and contacts might have been relevant to the attack, but the police was not interested and brushed everything under the rug.

    On condition of anonymity, Valérie M. questions “Islamist terrorism” thesis in the January 7 [Charlie Hebdo] attack

    https://www.nouvelobs.com/charlie-hebdo/20151019.OBS7864/l-etrange-theorie-de-valerie-m-derniere-compagne-de-charb.html

    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  77. God forbid young Christians did something similar…off with their heads! Fortunately, Noahide hasn’t been fully instituted yet…

    Actually, no religion ought to be doing this sort of thing. But Muslims are, and when the time comes, so will Talmudic Jews.

    With God and Christ you have a choice. With Satan you don’t.

  78. @JohnPlywood

    Which scientific experiment proved God does not exist?

    • Replies: @ChiNoneCom
  79. Which scientific experiment proved that he does?

    Separately, I’m assuming what Plywood means is that much has been explained in the last, say, 500 years via verifiable scientific methods. Things that people in long-ago eras thought were mystical or could only have been created by a superpower have been proven to be natural occurrences able to be explained, tracked and measured.

    Because of all that, many don’t feel as much need for a God.

    • Replies: @Iris
  80. Here is who the white French punish for blasphemy against their 16 million gods, including Epstein and Maxwell:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:French_Holocaust_deniers

  81. Smith says:

    I support them to be quite honest.

    We need to get back that medevial religious zeal, that is truer to human nature than this liberal farce.

    The cartoonists are all secular fucks anyway.

  82. @Iris

    Thanks for the links, but the first link did not open probably because it was doomed to the memory hole.

    One video that widely circulated but was later removed after Charlie Hebdo, was one of the terrorists shooting, with what looked like an Ak47 if my memory is right, an injured policeman in the head at almost zero point range. And surprise surprise, not a drop of blood came out of the head’s victim. Another roomer that swept many media sources was that a Rothschild had bought the magazine about a month before the incident as it was in a state of bankruptcy. The story could make sense since the incident caused the magazine to go back into financial solvency because of the ‘ je suis Charlie’ wave. Most probably the Kouachi brothers were nothing more than patsies in the whole affair just like the Chechen brothers in the Boston Marathon bombing. My first comment when the Charlie Hebdo happened wad that if the Kouachi brothers are brought alive to face justice in an open court, then I might start to believe the official narrative for the trend of dead terrorists was becoming prevalent.

    BTW, the flagrant lacuna in the Nice terrorist incident was the photo of the truck riddled with bullets but without a drop of blood on it.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @mvanK
    , @Iris
  83. @Iris

    Since you mention the children of May 1968, I found it out of context but useful to bring the subject of Cohn Bendit, a leader if the 1968 unrest, how he reacted to the news about professor Didier Raoult discovery that Hydroxychloroquine can be an effective cure to the Covid 19. The man was literally shaking with indignation for it seems that Dr. Raoult’s approach might disturb the globalists’ s plan for world vaccination. This is the brand of people who have the upper hand in the French intelligentsia.

    • Replies: @Cova Donga
  84. dimples says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    It’s true although there are some unwanted side effects, such as death for blasphemy, rule by ignorant priesthood, hands cut off for petty theft, women in bags, annoying and blaring mosques, millions of idiots prostrating themselves in the direction of, what is it, Petra or Mecca five times a day, etc etc.

    Sort of like throwing out the baby with the bathwater or the cure being worse than the disease.

    • Agree: Jaroslav Hašek
    • Replies: @anonymous
  85. Adûnâi says: • Website
    @Talha

    Indeed, Islam is based in many regards (aside from the worship of the god of Ibrahim, funnily enough). Conversely, my Aryan race might also carry the wretched name of the Race of Blasphemers.

    Blasphemy is the religion of Jesus-worshippers! Blasphemy against Nature, and against Order and Beauty.

    When I see a race that keeps fidelity towards their creed unto death – even the misguided warriors of Al-Qaeda- I am enraptured by veneration. But my brother in blood feels disgusted precisely by that! It is the lowly and the ugly who win over the hearts of Christian Aryans. A race of pathological traitors we are.

    Hitler betrayed by the Anglos in 1939-45, Stalin’s body thrown away from the Mauseleum by Khrushchev in October 1961. Lukashenko stabbed in the back by the very people he had laboured so hard for the betterment of… I am in a futile search for a people that remains loyal.

    Meine Ehre heißt Treue – that is the creed of Juche Korea, not of the infidelious Aryans.

    • Replies: @Talha
  86. Muslims actually don’t ask for all that much. Number one is: don’t disrespect their prophet.

    Are they too sensitive? Are they anti-free speech? Can they not take a joke?

    Just ask French comedian Dieudonne how well French Jews took it when he decided to mock state-sponsored holocaust worship. Let’s just say they didn’t see the funny side!

    • Agree: Moi
    • Thanks: Tommy Thompson
    • Replies: @anonymous
  87. Seraphim says:
    @JohnPlywood

    *EMPIRICAL
    Cambridge Dictionary
    Oxford Dictionary
    etc.
    like ‘then’ for ‘than’, ‘than’ for ‘then’, ‘it’s’ for ‘its’, ‘its’ for ‘it’s’.
    Illiteracy.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
  88. LIQ says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Why high IQ whites let Low IQ in? Why the civilized HIQ whites have a need to invade, destroy their basic infrastructure, colonize their countries, humilate their people and loot and pillage those countries. Then so kind of you the HIQ let few of LIQ under disguise of “humanely gesture” in to serve the masters. So why you the need to feel the need to stoop to the level of LIQ. Why, under the guise of civilizing, human rights, and spread democracy, HIQ elite people have doing (repeating) this for millennia,even before islam? You even did it to the jews before Christianity, then to Christianity before Islam and now mainly to Islam. And to your surprise they (HIQ elites) doing it to everyone including you the HIQ, through false flag operations, through covid1….. n, through poverty, perpetual debt. So, why most of Science professors are from LIQ people? I Know why. But I wont tell you. I have to let you work for it. Hint, because your HIQ has been using the same function to destroy and loot got rusty and dull, grease your brain cells and use it. Use it fo figure out what they been doing to you and to others in your name. Be careful it is not the machinery grease and definitely not the grease floats on hot meal. I can’t be mean. The LIQ people are not dangerous to HIQ. The are maybe dangerous to elite HIQ. Because, they figured the game. They afraid the HIQ might catch on to LIQ. And they too figure out the game and stop being used.

  89. @JohnPlywood

    And the atheists are madder because they take up a metaphysical position ‘God does not exist’, and make it out to be verifiable truth, and not just another faith.

    But the metaphysical is ‘after’ physics, a priori stuff. Any position taken on it is demanding of faith and faith alone.

    If you have no interest in God because the metaphysics is not directly verifiable, you hold a position from the frame of reference of the scientific method. Such people are as happy to talk about God (I say as an approximation), as they are about Newtonian mechanics. And they feel no need to offend anyone, as well as an opportunity to learn from cultures that have been aiming to perfect their ways of life for thousands of years (even if with some mistaken predicates)

    If you stand opposed to God, you have faith. The atheists I know, to the last one, do this. And such people react to theistic faiths as those faiths tend to react amongst each other – ‘your belief is wrong, mine is right’.

    Here’s your experiment: https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2017-07-probability-quantum-world-local-realism.amp

    The quantum world does not obey local realism, or ‘objective reality’.

  90. Renoman says:

    Your graphs are in French , this is an English web site!! Stupid or lazy, which is it?

  91. vot tak says:

    “26% do not oppose the assassination of cartoonists mocking Mohammed”

    That was a terrible thing that an office full of israeli propaganda war criminals was exterminated. What if it became a common thing, rather than a one-off op?

    The hebdo caper was allowed to go through because the obvious anti-Muslim benefits of it could be massively exploited for israeli/zionazi-gay psywar benefit. At the same time it could be used to rejuvenate hebdo, who had faded into obscurity as a useful agit prop outfit, at that time. That hebdo is now an empty shell of what they had been is not important, the zio-media keeps them in the public eye and keeps this merde pile from its decomposition into its natural state.

    But imagine all zionazi-gay media faced a similar threat by the population at large for their war crimes (promoting aggressive war is a war crime, just ask goebbels). What would it do to the zionazi-gay/corporate psywar industry? Can one see mark levin, hannity, limbaugh, maddow and all the other aspects of the zio-media, risking their necks to continue promoting the war crimes when it could likely result in their own lynching?

    I’m sure the zio-media pool of talent available would diminish quite a bit, along with their effectiveness as a tool to manipulate people.

  92. @anon

    #72

    Now and then I enjoy reading Bigotry of the lowest form. Probably from a Zio troll working to re-direct the conversation away from their full spectral domination of the Western and now Islamic world and working to re-stoke old fires of Christian and Muslim clash of civilizations promoted by super Zionist Samuel Huntington. .

    It only works on those already committed to stupidity, racism and pretend religion (like the Fake White Nationalists who claim to be Christian) and not on the educated, informed or the properly religiously indoctrinated with Christian ethos and moral character.

    I am not aware of what you are saying of Muslims or Christians for that matter force converting any one or chopping heads. We are aware of the ISIS / Daesh paid Zio mercenaries chopping heads and committing atrocious crimes, mostly against Muslims to further a third party agenda. We are also aware of Israeli IDF and Jewish settler fanatics target practicing on children in Gaza and West Bank, but that is ok, look away and move along. not our business.

  93. ivan says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    There is no such thing as blasphemy in a modern society organised along liberal lines. God if he exists can protect himself. Consider : One has to believe in a God before he can be against him, but if one already believes in that God then one would not even think of depicting him in the manner of Charlie Hebdo.

    As a Christian, I find the Muslim belief that Jesus was but a mere prophet objectively offensive against my belief that He is God Himself. In fact wars have been fought throughout history precisely on the nature of the being of Jesus Christ. Am I entitled to claim that Muslims by their very Koran blaspheme against the Godhead of Jesus Christ? Would Muslims accept that charge? Would they not counter that it is in fact Christians who by elevating a mere human to status of God, that blaspheme against the majesty of the Creator?

    Therefore in order to blaspheme in a spiritual sense one has to believe in the entity being blasphemed. Otherwise one might as well have blasphemy against the wind or the Earth, or anything that catches one’s fancy.

    What Hebdo did was in the nature of causing needless offense, there ought to be sanctions against that, but the so-called crime of blasphemy would not stick in any modern society. It is a crime against the beliefs of a community, a communal offence, but one that the rest of us need not care about.

    The other thing of course is that it is well known that Muslims of a certain bent are intent on defacing and destroying all the monuments of Christianity. Hardly the kind of activities that would endear them to Catholic traditionalists. Close but no cigar.

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  94. Tom Welsh says:
    @anon

    I think there is a rationale for making blasphemy illegal. But it is not a religious reason.

    Blasphemy has a very strong tendency to precipitate extreme violence. In a perfect world, we would all be completely free to say whatever we like – and everyone would accept the speech of others without reacting disproportionately.

    But it’s a very imperfect world, and simple civility dictates that one does not mock or question someone else’s religious beliefs. (Unless in a mutually agreeable debate, formal or informal, where everyone consents not to take offence and to avoid deliberately stirring up offence).

    We are surrounded by evidence that simple civility is in very short supply indeed – many people seem to feel that it is disgraceful in itself.

    Thus it may be necessary to forbid blasphemy and similar provocations by law, and provide adequate sanctions.

    ‘Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide the lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as “empty,” “meaningless,” or “dishonest,” and scorn to use them. No matter how “pure” their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best’.

    – Robert A. Heinlein

    • Replies: @anon
  95. ivan says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Apropos the jailing of the mayor of Jakarta, Ah Hok as he is popularly known, his crime was to say during the mayorial elections that there was nothing in the Koran that forbids Muslims from voting for non-Muslims. That apparently innocuous statement counted as blasphemy among the Indonesians – a supposedly more tolerant lot of Muslims. In spite of all the taqqiya from the Muslims one should be aware of what the fate of any minority in Muslim lands amounts to from his example among countless others.

    An interesting aside is that he is named Purnama. (Which means New Moon). Many would from this wax eloquent about how wonderfully syncretic Indonesia is; how it incorporated the old Hindu culture into the present day and the like. The truth though is more sinister . The Chinese minority desperately adopted, the old Sanskrit sounding names such as Dewi, Gunawan or Kurniawan in order to hide from the fury of the anti-Communist forces under Suharto, in the aftermath of the overthrow of Sukarno. All Chinese were conveniently identified as Communists directed from China in order to defenestrate them.

    In the thread below, one can get an idea of the tolerance that many Muslims are overflowing with when they are in the majority.

    https://www.sammyboy.com/threads/ah-hok-sentenced-to-2-years-jail-for-blasphemy.243426/

    • Thanks: Ann Nonny Mouse
  96. @Talha

    Vigilantism is the result of a gov’t that doesn’t give a shit about the people and is the final recourse to settle issues.

    You are correct in that it isn’t a good sign, but it is necessary when all else fails.

  97. ivan says:
    @Colin Wright

    You have to live in a Muslim country to experience their tolerance. i’d take may chances in Talmudistan any day over Pakistan or any number of Islamic countries.

  98. Anonymous[661] • Disclaimer says:

    “Bernard-Henri Lévy and secularist establishment are celebrating this brave expression of free speech as a triumph of the Values of the Republic.”

    Vous plaisantez j’espère!

    People have literally been arrested in France by the Jewish champions of free speech for wearing a t-shirt with “Free Palestine” on it. Free speech in France means anti-Muslim, anti-Christian, anti-White. Anything anti-Jewish equals prison time.

    Lévy’s “Values of the Republic” means one nation under Jewish tyranny. Same old merde.

  99. @Kevin Barrett

    I do agree that Liberal values which have been so corrosive to the European peoples will be brought to an end due to the rise of Islam in Europe which is a good thing for European nationalists as it will give us a window of opportunity, but I disagree that Europeans should actively support them [the Muslims].

    church burnings are great

    And who exactly is doing these church burnings? Western shills for Islam often try to emphasis the similarities between Christianity and Islam, a way to unite the two against the corrupting forces of atheism and universalism, but do the non-Europeans think this way? Why should Christians support a body of people who at best, are condescending of them and at worst outright hostile?

    Islam and it’s history is very interesting, but it is quite disgusting how Islamophiles like you will go as far as to root for racial aliens in the homeland of Europeans, aliens who have a racial hatred for our people. I can almost certainly bet you think that the hatred of Muslims by Europeans is entirely due to Zionist propaganda and not also experience living with them, such people are as harmful as the Jewish anti-White ideologues in my view. Both want the racial destruction of Europeans.

  100. Anon[123] • Disclaimer says:

    170. O Mankind! The Messenger hath come to you in truth from Allah: believe in him: It is best for you. But if ye reject Faith, to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: And Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
    171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not “Trinity”: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
    ( Quran 4: 170-171 )

    [MORE]

    47. O ye People of the Book! believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out.
    48. Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
    Quran sura An nisaa 4; 47-48.

    14. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done
    15. O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,
    17. In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every – one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.”
    19. O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) our messengers, lest ye should say: “There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)”: But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things.
    51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
    75. Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
    78. Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.
    81. If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what hath been revealed to him, never would they have taken them for friends and protectors, but most of them are rebellious wrong-doers.
    82. Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
    83. And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: “Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses
    84. “What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?”
    85. And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath,- their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.
    86. But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs,- they shall be companions of Hell-fire
    .116. And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah’?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
    117. “Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, ‘worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord’; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
    ( Quran sura Al Maaida )

    • LOL: ivan
    • Replies: @Tommy Thompson
  101. @Coconuts

    Religion is resurgent even in the secular West.

    That’s because people are getting more stupid over time due to the state taking care of them and they therefore no longer need to think, just emote.

  102. @Colin Wright

    America was always meant to be a sort of outpost for North-West European civilisations, we see this with figures like Madison Grant who vehemently opposed the Nordic character of America being destroyed by the waves of migrations from Southern and Eastern Europe during the late 19th century. In any case, America was intended to be a White nation as shown by the first naturalisation law, the Naturalization Act of 1790.

    Some Hispanics may assimilate into American society better, but most will not, I have seen numerous videos and photos of American Hispanics waving Mexico flags, very similar to how Pakistanis and Jamaicans (to give but two examples) wave the flags of their homeland in the UK. Biological similarity has always been the limiting factor in assimilation, America is set to become a very incoherent and disunited country on the coming decades, at it becomes a potpourri of radically different cultures and peoples.

    Culture is a way a people speaks to itself about its past, present and future. Culture is downstream from ethnicity and ancestry, as it stems from shared memory. This is why when you mix together different groups, the national conversation becomes very schizophrenic and high temperature.

    After all, was Churchill a good guy or a bad guy? Brits will tell you he was good and that he should he commemorated (I disagree for reasons unrelated to Churchill’s racialism, but rather his philosemitism) while Subcontinental and Africans see him as a villain, the same is going on in America with the statues of Europeans going down. I think foreign states will exploit this disunity very well in the future, although sometimes it seems domestic media seems to be doing their work for them!

    I’ll end this comment with a very good quote by Charles De Gaulle about immigration and assimilation, I think this applies equally as well to America.

    It is very good that there are yellow French, black French, brown French. They show that France is open to all races and has a universal vocation. But [it is good] on condition that they remain a small minority. Otherwise, France would no longer be France. We are still primarily a European people of the white race, Greek and Latin culture, and the Christian religion.

    Don’t tell me stories! Muslims, have you gone to see them? Have you watched them with their turbans and jellabiyas? You can see that they are not French! Those who advocate integration have the brain of a hummingbird. Try to mix oil and vinegar. Shake the bottle. After a second, they will separate again.

    Arabs are Arabs, the French are French. Do you think the French body politic can absorb ten million Muslims, who tomorrow will be twenty million, after tomorrow forty? If we integrated, if all the Arabs and Berbers of Algeria were considered French, would you prevent them to settle in France, where the standard of living is so much higher? My village would no longer be called Colombey-The-Two-Churches but Colombey-The-Two-Mosques.

    • Agree: ivan
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  103. anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    100% of UNZ.com articles are agitprop.

  104. What’s really depressing is the number of commenters that appear to believe in the nonsense of some sky god for which there is absolutely no proof.

    In the modern age, where science delivers more and more benefits that are tangible, to believe in some ancient stupidstition is beyond my comprehension. The Europeans should eject all Muslims from their society, as should the US and any civilized country. There are enough ignorant Christians and Jews to deal with already.

  105. Dexter P says:

    What is the point? What is the point of inviting groups of people who are the oil to our water? If, for instance, the unorthodox value set held by these people was counterbalanced by, say, a high IQ or an impressive work ethic, there would be a calculation in order. Clearly the higher tax revenues is not something to dismiss out of hand, notwithstanding the aforementioned defects. But no such saving grace exists, so again, I ask what is the point? It is already a great feat that a sense of kin can span an entire nation state, consisting of 60 million people. I don’t see why one would put this to the test. On the contrary one should realise its miraculousness, and do everything one can to foster it. Importing a genetically and culturally distinct people is inimical to this. And as a young adult, I am really puzzled by this patent own-goal.

    Similarly, my country’s capital is 10% black. Big deal you say, some American cities exceed that by quite some margin. But it is a big deal because those 10% commit the MAJORITY of street crimes, knife crimes, robbieries, you name it. Am I supposed to believe that this is caused by poverty, which is in turn caused by ‘systemic racism’ (whatever that means)? Even if I grant the supposed systemic racism, I honestly don’t see the causal link from ‘poverty’ (which, by the way, is defined very generously) to crime – instead there are mediating factors like IQ, conscientiousness, agreeableness, etc. If you’re not convinced, picture a criminal in the act. Does he look defeated? Does he commit the crime out of pure necessity to feed himself or his family? No. If you’re like me, you will have pictured a cocksure, contumacious c***. We all know what the population differences in the aforementioned traits are.

    When it comes to interacting with individuals, there’s little point in judging by category except in perhaps assuming details about their culture. Intuition is far better and accurate in this regard. But before one imports large groups of individuals, then they should be judged by population means. Even in WEB du Bois’ time, blacks constituted 4% of the population of USA, yet committed 22% of the crime. Coincidental parallelism to my city? I think not. This is just what happens if you leave the groups to their own devices. When there is freedom of opportunity and no discrimination, biology shines through, as Sweden have seen with their ever-widening gulf in gender representation in fields like CompSci or Nursing. No, the sociological constant of black crime = white crime*(5 to 10) would only cease to hold through draconian laws, or the former’s mulattoisation.

    So, tieing everything together, I would urge nationstates to look for evidence of how groups behave before they import them en masse. Yeah you get a bit more diversity, yippee! But you also get rampant homophobia and terrorism in one case, and an effortless doubling in crime in the other. Is that really worth it? If you want more folk in your city, maybe encourage immigration from countryside?

    Just consider everyone who was harmed who wouldn’t have been harmed, the tax people wouldn’t have had to have payed, the atomisation that people have felt. Immigration of this sort has caused a lot of harm, make no mistake.

  106. GMC says:

    Everybody has been conned by the politicians and the Owners of each and every government , including too many sleazy religious leaders. . Why would a decent country of nationist people that love their country – want to dilute it with morons that would not assimilate? It is, and always will be suicide , as long as you let the corrupt Gov. bend over the normal decent citizens. The Game is over for the once – wonderful selection of individual countries, called – Europa.

  107. The entire West seems to lack the will to defend its culture and posterity, almost as if it were poisoned.

    • Agree: Trinity, GMC
  108. @ivan

    Use your common sense. Theological disagreements are not blasphemy. If I say “God is One not three” you might, as a Trinitarian, consider that heretical, but not blasphemous. Blasphemy is a strongly worded emotionally-loaded meant-as-insulting attack on what traditional religion holds sacred. If I yelled something like “%@?!* your Trinity” and meant it to insult and upset Trinitarians, I should be exposed to arrest for blasphemy, because such is unprotected and harmful speech, in the same way that other kinds of obscenity, pornography, “fighting words,” slander, etc. are unprotected and harmful.

    The American courts generally got the First Amendment right up until the middle of the last century, when depraved elites, disproportionately from a certain ethnic group that doesn’t like Christians especially Catholics, pushed to legalize and normalize obscenity, pornography, and blasphemy, and succeeded up to a point.

    • Agree: Moi, Iris
    • Disagree: R.C.
  109. Iris says:
    @The Real World

    Because of all that, many don’t feel as much need for a God.

    Oh please, give us a break with atheists’ delusions about their alleged intellectual superiority over believers.

    Nothing new has been brought to the debate ever since 17th Century mathematician Blaise Pascal’s made his bet on the existence of God: it can neither be proved, nor disproved by rational argumentation.

    People believe in God for a range of reasons: socio-cultural, sensitivity, need for a transcendance ideal, or to give a sense to our short and elusive life. Lack of education is not really one of them.

    Considering that believers are particularly “needy” is yet another Western delusion.
    Just think about the million of Westerners who “believe” that their governments work for them, LOL. Or to the millions who turn to various addictions to match the gap between their expectations and their real life. Or to the hundreds of millions who bet and play the lottery “believing” they will win some day.
    Or even worse, to the many who believe in “alternative” channels with supra-natural forces. Long after he died, I was flabbergasted to learn that “secular” French President Francois Mitterand had been seeing an astrologist once a week to help make his political decisions. Can you imagine how serious this is? His brain with the charlatan and his hand on the nuclear switch?

    At least believers have a transparent philosophical, ethical and moral body of concepts to help them walk through life, instead of decomposing within the sad mess the West has become.

    • Replies: @The Real World
  110. @RoatanBill

    In my view, Europeans should revere their blood and their history. The history and achievements of Europeans can quite comfortably be described as biblical in themselves. Moses may have allegedly parted the Red Sea, but the Europeans have walked on the moon itself.

    Europeans should realise their genetic inheritance is their most important asset, they themselves are just one genetic link in a long chain of people spanning back millennia, and should they throw away this inheritance, the future will be very bleak for their offspring, and for the world.

    Christianity itself was only great and achieved its prestige because Europeans adhered to it, it was European genetics and culture which itself was shaped by the European environment which created structures like the Notre Dame and St. Peters Basilica, as well as Hagia Sophia which is currently under Saracen occupation.

    This law of blood holds true for Islam as well, would Islam have achieved its prestige without the likes of the Arabs, Persians and Turko-Mongols? Would sub-Saharan African and Subcontinental Muslims have managed to create great Islamic art and architecture (keeping in mind that the Taj Mahal was designed by Persians)

  111. @RoatanBill

    Absolutely Agree: “The Europeans should eject all Muslims from their society, as should the US and any civilized country.”

    If you get rid of God, the State becomes God. islam is the worst; when and where it dominates it becomes both.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  112. trickster says:

    I’ll say it again. If ever there is a deadly malaise stalking the earth it is the inability to THINK.

    1. These Muslims and other ungrateful immigrants flee their shit hole countries for a better life.
    -One aspect of this is the fact that if Islam is such a great religion, why oh why is your country a dump ? and
    -Why on earth do you want to come to a Christian country ?

    Once in the new country of your dreams, why not take advantage of the opportunities offered you. It wont be easy but those opportunities must exist or you would not have risked your life in a leaky boat to get there. Work hard, keep a low profile, save and build something for yourself !

    Why do you want to create a shit house similar to the one you left behind ?

    They would not dare protest in their own countries but they do it here because we are “democratic and respect human rights”. From their perspective we are weak and so they abuse their privileges and take advantage of our goodness.

    2. On the other side of the coin, the politicians let these people in, and then are confronted with another set of problems which they dont need and which the righteous citizens of said country also dont need.

    One would think the do goody politicians would say “look, enough is enough, First no more immigrants. Second all immigrants in jail are to be immediately expelled. Third, those who dont like it can leave. Fourth those who make trouble will be expelled. Fifth, dont bother to come here in a boat because there are no social benefits and you will be immediately deported.

    Instead, both parties, do everything contrary to what is prudent action.

    It seems they revel in stupidity as if they wished to show their skills at being idiots.

    All these Muslim shit birds protesting for this and that should be rounded up, herded onto a ship and dumped on the North African coast. Problem or rather problems solved !

  113. Moi says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    In France, freedom of speech stops at any questioning of the holocaust and Muslim women do not have the right to dress as they like.

    Bernard-Henri Lévy is a total Zionist who was all for the bombing of Libya.

    As many in the west ditch tradition (of politeness, decency, faith, and rejection of lgbtqi, etc.), I hope they know what they are going to replace it with. Some traditions may, indeed, need to be reexamined/modified, but let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    • Agree: Kevin Barrett
  114. Moi says:
    @anon

    Islam is the only religion, aside from Christianity, that reveres Christ and his mother.

    • Agree: Iris
  115. Trinity says:

    Oh, I remember this event. This is the one where all the (((world leaders))) locked arms in solidarity and marched for (((free speech))) aka speech that Jews don’t object to for Whitey. Of course we all saw Baby Nut&Yahoo and Angela Merkel front and center. Try to control your laughter on that one, pilgrim. A Jewish Supremacist war criminal and a former (((commie))) who is doing her best to flood Germany with Black and Brown Muslims while imprisoning anyone who even questions the WWII narrative.

    Okay back to the program. I don’t support anyone disrespecting and spitting on anyone’s religion regardless of whether I agree with it or not, HOWEVER, France and all of Europe should be for Whites ONLY, and by Whites, I don’t mean Arabs, Jews, or Turks. Yeah, I know that Turkey is part of the EU and that it is a transcontinental nation like Russia, but in my book, the Turks are NOT White and the Russkies are, so that answers that one. And besides Russia had the balls to declare itself a Christian nation, while France is still waiting for its balls to drop for over a century now. That being said, all Brown and Black Muslims should GET THE HELL OUT OF FRANCE AND EUROPE AND GO BACK HOME. Should Mohammad be respected by Christians and Whitey? Yes. Should Jesus be respected by Muslims? Yes. We all know that Jews aren’t about to respect anyone’s religion but theirs so why bother with that question. Do I believe in Mohammad? No, but then again, there are times where I question the existence of any God that would allow evil to rule the world the way it rules the world we live in.

    Should someone be punished with jail or prison for blasphemy? NO. Should people have good taste and respect for others religions and not resort to Jewy behavior of demeaning other peoples religious figures and symbols? YES. That being said, we can all support free speech but discourage bad taste by not publishing it but of course we certainly don’t want to imprison or fine free speech the way it is carried out when it comes to questioning “the holocaust” or Jewish power and influence. One should be given the same rights to boycott Israel for their racism and war crimes the way they boycotted apartheid South Africa in the 1980s. Nonwhites, particularly nonwhite and non Christians should not be in Europe in the first place. At least Whites are the ones who built America, while nonwhites flooding into Europe are literally and figuratively raping the continent and European culture.

  116. TKK says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Muslims are in the forefront of the movement to return France and the rest of the West to sane traditional values

    Because nothing screams sanity like hacking off your daughter’s clitoris, beating her to death because she impugned the male family “honor” by texting a boy or killing people over cartoons.

    Were you wearing a propeller beanie when you wrote this?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Kevin Barrett
  117. chuckywiz says:
    @Sya Beerens

    In Islam there is no requirement for so called wearing “Burka” which the narrow minded in the west make fun of. Always ridicule the weak and poor.
    The word is Hijab that a Muslim woman is to cover her head/hair just like women of Jewish and Christian faith. Now the fanatic religious Mullahs as the religious fanatics in other religions have passed to the extreme lunacy and decreed a burka or whatever. Please note it is done by the Muslim males
    Take a look at your friendly oil rich kingdoms and compared the women role and treatment in most populated Muslim countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, China, Russian, Pakistan, India, Iran, Kazakhtan, Uzbekistan, Bosnia and many others. In Jakarta, I ended up in a taxi with a female driver (Muslim) who was listening to Bob Marley and rhyming along.
    You need to spend sometime learning about the subject before you start sharing.

    “Knowledge is duty and ignorance is a crime” Thomas Paine.

    Now the Muslim Women are enjoying freedom in France, England, or Holland “beacon” of democracies- double standard. On the one hand claims are made by the hippocratic countries of being democratic and secular (protector of individual rights blah blah) but when some individual take advantage of this fake PR like wearing bukas or practicing their religious activity (even sometime annoying) then they are ridiculed and marginalized. Why dont these Govt banned the Burkas or other annoying activities once for all. I dont see any problem. But these govts wants to have cakes and eat it too.
    Just look in Sofia, Bulgaria, the rules say that there wont be any calls for prayers in mosques in the morning and at night. No fuss by any one. Muslims Christian, Jews or whoever. Rules are rule. Period.
    Let us not hate people because of their faiths, ethnicity, or languages.

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  118. @Sick of Orcs

    The state already is god.

    The vast bulk of the population adores the state as their savior. They can’t imagine living without its constant predation and deceit, just like their sky god. God works in mysterious ways, just like the state. The fools in church are the same ones that run to the voting booth to anoint their next god.

    • LOL: InnerCynic
  119. Rob McX says:

    More implausible than the tenets of any religion is the idea that any featherless biped can be a Frenchman just by being born within the country’s borders.

  120. @Anon

    thanks, Anon , but I just read the translated Koranic verses you posted
    and can say (1) you cannot interject paraphrases (XXXX) these are your interpretations, this is not the Scofield Koran. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah

    (2) I found it very positive overall on Christians and Jews, nothing like the Talmud which throws Jesus to the sewer. Or the Catholic teachings and denunciation of Muslims as heathens destined for the fire because they have not accepted Jesus as a Divine Savior. Of course there are going to be major differences in theological outlook and histories, otherwise Islam would be Christianity.

    I come to understand that the historical holy biblical characters shared between the 3 religions that neither, that is none of: Moses, Jesus, Mary or Mohammed, etc. are divine in Islamic theology but only persons carrying divine word??

    By the way Christian Arabs use the term Allah as well, it is not exclusive to Muslims, but just means God, and this has been confirmed to me by many 1st hand sources, so denigrating the word Allah just demonstrates your cheap trash talk.

    Someone more versed and less bigoted is welcome to correct me here if needed.

    Bigots, racist retards and Zio-Trolls best excuse themselves. There are plenty of such commenting on this, displaying their true low level of persona and character.

  121. @JohnPlywood

    Somehow, I imagine that what you say means little or nothing to anyone. You write as if you believe yourself omniscient, but no one is. By the way, it’s “empirical”, not “imperical”, you pompous ass. Learn some humility before you start spouting off.

  122. chuckywiz says:
    @Ron Unz

    It is easy to make fun of weak and poor and get away with it.
    Or if you belong to the same community you have free pass to say anything.

  123. @Moi

    Muslims, much like Jews, are still hostile to Christianity. This trick of emphasising the shared Abrahamic roots of both Islam and Christianity is merely to pacify worried Christians, in the end demographics is destiny.

    These Muslims respect Christianity so much that they regularly burn down ancient cathedrals in France, unless of course the hatred is not merely religious, but also racial?

    I am not totally familiar with the French history in Algeria, but I do know the French did not treat the Algerians well, especially in the later years of the occupation. And yet some think it is a good idea to allow these people into France en masse, many of whom will no doubt have an axe to grind due to historical ills and more relevantly current support of Zionism?

    Supposing France was still homogenous, all the Charlie Hebdo provocations would have resulted in would be some riots in places like Egypt or Pakistan in which maybe a few of them would die due to a stampede or police firing. They certainly wouldn’t result in wide divisions within France itself.

    With each passing year, the vipers den grows in size. With each passing year the potential agony Europe will have to grow through to rid itself of this nest grows exponentially.

    • Replies: @ivan
  124. The philosopher Voltaire once wrote famously, “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to mock with cartoons.”

  125. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:

    Hebdo? Hebdo.

    Wasn’t that a Yid provocation followed
    by an Israeli false flag against Muslims?

    Certain it was.

    France is near-dead because of secularist tools like Macron
    and extremist manipulators like the Yid, Bernard H. Levy.

    • Agree: Trinity
  126. @Kevin Barrett

    This is ridiculous why shouldn’t we be able to say **** the trinity? Why do we need to police ourselves just to appease your sensitivity? Lord knows Muslims don’t give a crap about other peoples sensitivities just ask the Christians, Zoroastrians, and Jews that live in Iran. These people don’t believe in Islam yet they are forced to live according to Islamic law, why on earth should a christian or jew be forced to conform to a religion they don’t believe in? Why should Christians or Jews or Zoroastrians or atheists for that matter have to wear the hijab in Iran? Why cant Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians or Atheists be allowed to criticize the prophet and his actions? If the prophet was alive today he would be in jail for some of the things he did. Why aren’t we allowed to poke fun at an obviously outmoded and outdated religious belief that espouses all sorts of nonsense that we no longer believe in? There should be absolutely NO limitations on free speech. If you don’t like blasphemy then vote with your wallet, simply don’t financially support them. That’s how mature people in mature nations deal with things they don’t like, they don’t commit terrorism or impose draconian laws they simply ignore them.

  127. ivan says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Don’t be silly. Blasphemy works only if the blasphemer believes in the object that he is blaspheming. If he does not believe it, he could be doing any number of things; offending community sensibilities, making a total nuisance of himself and such like, but he cannot blaspheme something he does not believe in. Therefore blasphemy is a matter between him and the entity he supposedly blasphemes. If that entity exists, it up to that entity to determine the consequences. But if the sky fairy does not exist then he was railing against an imaginary being, which is I suppose his right.

    I am well aware that in the history of Christianity there were many who were put to death for the crime of blasphemy, but invariably in those societies, it was an offence against the community. The community asserted its right to do away with that individual who had clearly undermined its foundations.

    But in a modern society, there is no such commonly held set of beliefs. Anywhere upto fifty percent of the population in some countries do not believe in a god. Therefore the penal sanctions against it for the good of the community makes no sense.

  128. TKK says:
    @Tommy Thompson

    You were Graham Greene, smiling and nodding at what you perceived as a benign exotic culture with hot tea and wonderful baklava.

    The idea that Christians would not be persecuted if they opened a church in say- the working class suburbs of Istanbul is laughable- and reckless to advance. If you avoided a beat down and your church being torched, you would be aggressively ignored at the bread shop, the grocery, on the street for all your days there. Erdogan’s street thugs would watch your every movement.

    I am speaking of Turkey and Indonesia, where I have spent the most time, actually living with a Muslim family in their home. (Tolerant Bali is excluded).

    The first order of business if you want to marry a Muslim is for you to convert. This is not optional, and groups of 20-30 family members will scream, harass, cry, proselytize and THREATEN you until you relent or you break up with their family member.

    The pretend Muslim Barrett has never lived in a hard core Muslim country.It’s fun to play the provocative Islamist in the confines of Western country.

    You are not subject to the real life experiences of Islam: your reading material inspected , no art in the home, overnight guests interrogated , diet (How would Barrett survive Ramadan?), clothing and haircut mandates, beard restrictions (all applicable to males) and your very speech are policed by knuckle dragging clerics with food in their beards.

    These clerics’ theological acumen amounts to rocking back and forth like a schizophrenic, reciting the Quran in Arabic by rote- and most do not speak Arabic. These fools have no idea what they are reciting.

    What you don’t understand, on a visceral level- is the smiling nodding Muslims saw you as an infidel- lost, doomed and dumb. They did not bother you because you are beneath their interest or contempt.

    These same Muslims lash out as murderous thugs when their host country- who houses, feeds and cares for them cradle to grave— does not conform to their medieval mandates that even dictate how you clean out your nose before you pray.

    • Disagree: Tommy Thompson
    • Thanks: ivan
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  129. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @TKK

    Because nothing screams sanity like hacking off your daughter’s clitoris, beating her to death because she impugned the male family “honor” by texting a boy or killing people over cartoons.

    What’s more important than honor?

    In many cultures, throughout time, lose honor, kill self.

    Muslims do right when they attack provocateurs.
    Christians need to start knocking the other’s cheek/jaw.

    The many anti Islam cartoons are Yid provocations and Yid false flags.

    You use clitorectomy as Yid uses blasphemous cartooons – an attack:

    Abstract

    Female genital mutilation (FGM) is a practice involving the removal of all or parts of the female external genitalia. It has been documented in 28 African countries and in some countries in Asia and the Middle East, but due to increasing immigration from these countries to the western world, FGM has become a worldwide human rights and health issue. Contrary to the belief that it is a practice carried out by Muslims only, it is also practiced by Christians and a minority group of Ethiopian Jews. However, FGM is neither mentioned in the Torah, nor in the Gospels, and – like in Islam – bodily mutilation is condemned by both religions. In fact, FGM is a mix of mainly cultural and social factors which may put tremendous pressure on the members of the society in question.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110570413000258

  130. @TKK

    Charlie Hebdo was a false flag by Islamophobes. Like 9/11. https://www.unz.com/book/kevin_barrett__we-are-not-charlie-hebdo/

    Therefore it is white racist Islamophobes like you, not Muslims like me, who do crazy and/or evil things.

    Ergo, every crazy or evil thing ever done in Europe was done by people like you, not by people like me. (Sarcasm alert, since you are probably too dumb to recognize it.)

    You and other people like you routinely sodomize and murder and eat each other for fun. I know this because it is a true anecdote and really happened, which proves that all white Europeans act like this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3439299/I-fried-piece-rump-steak-ate-sprouts-German-cannibal-ate-gay-lover-permission-describes-went-killing-eating-him.html

    Citing this kind of anecdote legitimizes my demented hatred against every white person in Europe, and give me good reason to demand that all whites be deported from Europe back to Africa where their ancestors came from.

  131. anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bogus Pogus

    Here is a good site for Muslims who want to move to America and become part of our culture, integrate, we don’t ask for much and they’ll find they are a lot less angry when wearing this new style, it comes with a book too.

    http://www.amishclothesline.com/category/uncategorized/

  132. ivan says:
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    The Algerians when they had the chance kicked out every Frenchman they could find. The French in Algeria had roots going back a few generations and many were attached to that country with great sentiment. But according to the Muslims it is both right and proper that Algerians be able to cleanse Algeria of the French, while at the same time maintain their ghettos in France.

  133. @TKK

    Let’s not pretend- Islam is a pest.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/nazis_vs_muslims_who_hateth_the_most_david_cole/

    Nazis vs. Muslims: Who Hateth the Most?

    …………..
    Professor Peter Merkl’s landmark study “Political Violence Under the Swastika: 581 Early Nazis” (Princeton University Press, 1975) used contemporaneous biographical studies and personal documents to profile five hundred and eighty-one early, founding members of the Nazi Party (the hardcore Nazis who shaped the party and brought it to power). Merkl provided statistical analysis of the founding Nazis” political, societal, and religious views: 33.3% of these Nazi Party members showed no interest in anti-Semitism. 14.3% expressed “mild verbal cliches” regarding Jews. 19.1% displayed “moderate” disdain for Jewish cultural influence in Germany. But only 12.9% advocated “violent countermeasures” against Jews.

    If you take Merkl’s findings and measure them against the Pew survey results, you’re left with a truly startling conclusion: There are more Muslims in today’s world who support violence in the name of defending Islam than there were founding members of the Nazi Party who supported violence against Jews.

    The average Rahman-in-the-street is more likely, today, to think you should die for being an infidel than the average veteran Nazi Party member, back in the “30s, was likely to think a Jew should die for being a Jew. That’s stunning, and very, very ominous.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Bardon Kaldian
  134. If the cartoonists also mock Christianity and Judaism, I would 100% stand with them.

    But since they only only seen to mock 2 out of 3, I agree with the Muslims.

    They all should die. Because they are just tools. And have no respect. I am an atheist, but I don’t mock another’s strongly held beliefs to the degree of those cartoonists.

  135. As a right winger I feel no sympathy at all for secular PC Europe. At least Muslims fight back, unlike white Christians. I look forward to seeing feminist diversity trainers forced to wear burkas. Really, it would make my day.

  136. @Talha

    I agree, it is undeniable that we in the West are facing an ageing population, which will cause high dependency ratios and problems in the future. The best way to overcome this would be to use guest workers as a sort of short term fix.

    This would also be beneficial to the countries where these people came from, as they could experience “how we do things” and their children could also gain educational as well as skills training, after which they could return to their home countries and build them up better and stronger using their knowledge.

    Alas, what is actually happening is we give permanent residency to these people and merely delay the inevitable, the inevitable being the demographic slump, nobody ever asks what will happen when the entire world faces an ageing population, will we have to get guestworkers from Mars and Venus?

    Germany was actually pressured by America to forge an agreement with Turkey in relation to a guest worker programme. This was done because America wanted to create strong ties with Turkey during the Cold War, and so they could station their missiles there, this came at the cost of pressuring a fellow European country into accepting the beginnings of its demographic demise, a price worth paying for apparently. And as we know know, these guest workers never left, and many are now acting as a sort of fifth column for Erdogan.

    Enoch Powell, who made that famous “Rivers of Blood” speech in 1968, actually was very active in recruiting health workers from the Indian subcontinent to work in the NHS, even in his speech which is now denounced by the liberal elite as “evil”, he was not advocating for some pure White Britain which foreigners would not be allowed to settle or enter into for employment, he said:

    I stress the words “for settlement.” This has nothing to do with the entry of Commonwealth
    citizens, any more than of aliens, into this country, for the purposes of study or of improving
    their qualifications, like (for instance) the Commonwealth doctors who, to the advantage of their
    own countries, have enabled our hospital service to be expanded faster than would otherwise
    have been possible. They are not, and never have been, immigrants.

    I also believe in addition to the economic arguments, there are purely ideological people who simply want Europeans to become a minority for nefarious reason, a lot of the time due to a desire for revenge for past wrong-doing and White guilt, a lot of immigrants and their descendants are also very racially conscious and due to our foolishness in giving them political franchise, now form lobbies to advance their own groups ethnic interests at the expense of the Europeans.

    I personally see a greater push for regionalism here in the UK, as it slowly becomes clearer that the likes of London and Birmingham do not represent the future aspirations of people of ethnically British areas elsewhere.

    It’s all very sad, I see an immense rise in racial hatred due to this multicultural, multiracial experiment, perhaps this was also part of the Capitalist agenda to keep people divided and refrain from engaging in class struggle.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @KenH
  137. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Your reasoning is exactly why I have always believed that all these different people living together can only be held together through brute force. You lose your lack of choice and freedom. It creates anger and hostility within the people. Multiculturalism, is a disaster. How far can Jesus’ people go to escape where others cannot follow? There is no where left on the earth to live in peace and freedom and it’s exactly because all these people do not belong together. God put us in separate places and mixed the languages, so now almost everyone has gone against God in some form, no? Are they blaspheming against God or a prophet. How can Muslims be free to enjoy their religion when they move into Christian areas to destroy their religion and people? How can Jews be free to enjoy whatever it is they believe if they can’t or won’t go to their own land with their own people who think and act just like they do. One group of people will always try to take over the other. For all the talk of modernity that is thrown around people haven’t changed (evolved) at all, we’re exactly what we have always been.

  138. @Gleimhart Mantooso

    In science, the burden of proof is on the party who claims that something exists. That something does not exist never needs a proof. It is the default assumption. It stands before someone prove otherwise.

    This is the abyss between scientific and religious minds. They don’t use the same set of basic logics. So 99 out of 100 times there is no basis for any meaningful debate.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  139. Talha says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Wow, not even to the 200th post and Godwin’s Law comes marching in…

    Before people start chiding the Muslim world about its propensity for violence, they really ought to look in the mirror.

    They should take a look at this survey that was done maybe 7-8 years ago about various society’s views on violence by Gallup:
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/157067/views-violence.aspx

    They were asked very specific questions like the acceptability of targeting and killing civilians (by state actors):

    By non-state actors:

    I don’t find any difference in the moral implications of whether a state or non-state actor intentionally targets and kills civilians, but it seems the people who have a disproportionate amount of planes and killing hardware do…how convenient.

    Detailed breakdown by country is below the MORE tag…(can anyone guess which two countries find it most acceptable for state actors)?

    Peace.

    [MORE]

  140. Talha says:
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    It’s all very sad, I see an immense rise in racial hatred due to this multicultural, multiracial experiment, perhaps this was also part of the Capitalist agenda to keep people divided and refrain from engaging in class struggle.

    It is sad and this may well be the case. The case Enoch Powell made seems to make sense.

    I think something else is amiss; and it seems to be a fundamental systemic issue. Someone stated above:
    “The entire West seems to lack the will to defend its culture and posterity, almost as if it were poisoned.”

    What I find astounding is how many of the major European philosophers/theorists whose writings basically built the modern world, had no family or children. Dig into it yourself; name them off and see how many of them fit this pattern; Locke, Hobbes, Voltaire immediately come to mind.

    Our current era (at least that built by the West) is highly influenced by the abstract ideas of men that had no capability or interest in raising a family. The were not patriarchs and seemed to have no experience or interest in preserving any sort of lineage. They had no skin in the game in they world they were giving ideological birth to. Can a man who has no interest in family (or sees it as an afterthought) be depended upon to usher in a world that is optimized for the creation and maintenance of families? Or do families simply have to do their best to adapt themselves to fit into this new world?

    Should we be shocked that patriarchy is collapsing (if not collapsed) in the West (the first practitioners of these abstract ideas/theories) or that the institution of family is no longer associated with lineage or that populations are in terminal nosedive?

    Peace.

    • Thanks: Mefobills
  141. Bidu says:

    Has Charlie Hebdo ever published a cartoon of a stereotypical jew? Or an offensive caricature of Yahweh? I wonder what would be the reaction of the mainstream press or the Jewish population if this were to happen. But no worries mate. This will never happen.

  142. anon[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    How can I hurt somebody who hurts my sentiment, belittle my belief, and ridicules my way of life? Well lets legislate and give it a name –Sharia . Get it passed by the Duma, Parliament, Senate and Congress . May be a board can be created to monitor it – call it the Department for the Protection of the Sublime .

    Can Sharia board get special privilege accorded to CRIF ( French AIPAC) and to LICRA ( the forerunner of US dept of vigilance against anti Semitism ) .Sure . Give legally and illegally lot of Euro ,flood the airwave and let the politician smell the money .

    Hey how do I protect my loot, land, and protect the freehand to loot more and gain more land ? How do I prohibit any discussion on my past theft ? How I do I hide my presence in the wars around me ?How do I make sure that I could get war going ? How do I ensure that I am viewed the way the angle is ? How do I get the same respect the gods of the Christian Muslim Buddhist and Mormons get ?
    Well it’s already done.

    Manuel Valls, who called the Shoah the “sanctuary that cannot be profaned”. But you can profane anything else as long as …. you catch the drift.

    Manuel Valls told Dieudonné M’Bala’s humorous gesture is antisemtic . Rabbi Rav Haim Dynovisz called him living gorilla and an editor called him a filthy beast . Yes an editor ! Now he is deaf and blind rendered by chorus of freedom of speech and by the cartoon ?

    Eliminating him was suggested . ( don’t call it terrorism ) Gayssot law  is passed years ago – you can’t not revere Shoah without going to jail.

    Even 17yrs old have been banned from school for good because they saluted Nazi salute in reverse . JSSNews ( France-Israeli ) investigated those making quenelle sign so they can get them fired from their jobs. Emmanuel Macron asserted that anti-Semites “are not worthy of the Republic,” but we guess anti -Restism is worthy . ?? Anti Restism . Thats the way non -Jews could describe themselves . That’s it .

    Macron started a new journey on behalf of the enlightened asserrting “anti-Zionism is one of the modern forms of anti-Semitism.” Who needs to kill anybody ? François Holland said his government must find a way to ban performances by the comedian Dieudonné M’Bala M’Bala. Killing is done . Life is over . UMP,’s Jean-François Copé, offered total .
    support . “the weekly Nouvel Observateur editorialized that Dieudonné is “already dead”, washed up, finished. Editors publicly disputed whether it was a better tactic to try to jail him for “incitement to racial hatred”, close his shows on grounds of a potential “threat to public order”, or put pressure on municipalities by threatening cultural subsidies with cuts if they allow him to perform.” May be the editor should talk to this magazine . Or is it already in the domain of the dementia ?

    Dieudonné is never seen again performing on the same venue he used to .

    You also know why money is important . Getting money and enriching with money are ever so Important and vital you cant underestimate it That means all bets are off when money making comes . Because you bribe with money to get the war you want not you need and you silence the person who doesn’t ’t like your past by hiring some charlatan known as lawyer . But you cant even use the word New York’s moneyman . You will be barred from Obama inauguration though you served the country as NATO general and even onetime was presidential candidate .

    Then the Jews told the muslim “ well you can ridicule and draw Moses or Aaaron or ridicule Old Testament . We have no problem .We live in 21 st century.Learn from us who have been victimized for millennia”

    That means the Jews get to tell the rest of the world what is emotionally or spiritually important and what is not . ASSIMILATION !! thats for the Hispanic in USA and for Muslim in France where they accept AIPAC ADL FDD and CRIF and LICRA ,make pilgrimage to Poland to see the burning chamber ,cry at the Wailing Wall like UK minister Patel did before Pompeo or Donald ,dont wear Yellow Vest because someone thought it belonged to the Yellow Badge of Iran . Yellow Badge is now in the domain of the dementia – a forgotten canard . But that canard almost darted a war . An assimilated world Jewry would have found common cause with the world . But common is not a Jewish word . It is unique . It doesn’t assimilate but it makes other assimilate to its views. Jewish ( Israeli) views are the national views of the non- Jews . Pointing that would be an example of failure of assimilation .

  143. KenH says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Blasphemy against traditional religion has always (until very recent decadent and depraved times) been regarded as non-protected speech.

    Be careful because I don’t think constructive criticism of either Islam or Christianity constitutes blasphemy. Christians in general are much more good natured about assaults than are Muslims probably because in general Muslims take their religion far more seriously.

    Blashphemy can be a loaded term because a Muslim could perceive mild criticism of Islamic doctrine as “blashphemy” when to any reasonable person it is not. This is why Muslims and non-Muslim white Europeans can’t occupy the same living space.

    I understand the anger of Muslims seeing their prophet depicted in such an offensive manner but France is not a Muslim nation and French Muslims willingly immigrated to France. They can always leave if they find France to libertine and secular. France has no obligation to allow the Muslim minority to impose their will upon them or intimidate them.

    You and the rest of the Muslim world would be whistling a different tune if a Christian minority in Turkey was launching violent attacks based on the decision to make the Hagia Sophia a mosque.

    Muslims are in the forefront of the movement to return France and the rest of the West to sane traditional values.

    Muslims are in the forefront of Islamicizing France and extirpating all rivals. I don’t know of any French Muslims wringing their hands over the decline of Catholicism and Christianity in France. If I’m wrong just point me to the sources where Muslims are waxing indignant about the decline of Christianity in France.

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
    , @anon
  144. @Kevin Barrett

    Beware of what you wish for lest Christendom is turned into an extension of Saudi Arabia… the Jew is with the Muslim not with the non Semitic white man!

  145. Ragno says:

    Outside of a small handful, outlander Muslims should not be in the West. When my parents immigrated here – 70 years ago – they had to display proficiency in English and a working knowledge not just of American history, but of our founding principles. They also were required to wait for YEARS, as immigration restrictions were (wisely) in place at the time. When the same is demanded of the Third World flotsam and jetsam Hart-Celler loosed upon our country, only then will our society and our nation benefit from immigration.

    However, I applaud the violent confrontation of the treasonous media who – outside of the specific Charlie Hebdo instance – daily advocate for bestial orcs of every stripe to victimize and kill ordinary everyday Westerners, above all White Americans. If the teeming horde of university-corrupted journalists had their ranks regularly thinned by the kind of violence they quietly applaud behind half-hidden smirks, we should soon see their ranks once again be dominated by thoughtful gentiles grateful to be living in civilization.

  146. anon-og says:
    @Iris

    I stayed impressed by all of your commentary, thanks for being here.

    • Thanks: Iris
  147. Talha says:
    @Adûnâi

    When I see a race that keeps fidelity towards their creed unto death – even the misguided warriors of Al-Qaeda- I am enraptured by veneration.

    Willingness to die for one’s Creator is indeed based. No one should be dying for a creed; the creed is how one approaches one’s Creator – Who is the object of one’s purpose and desire:
    “Say: ‘Verily, my prayer, my sacrifice, my living, and my dying are for Allah, the Lord of the universe. No rival has He. And upon this I have been commanded, and I am among the first to submit.’” (6:162-163)

    The problem with extremists like al-Qaeda is that they claim to be fighting in His name and yet completely ignore His dictates on how to go about doing it. Killing random women and children and elderly with trucks is not based, it’s debased. Killing degenerate cartoonists in a land where you are under obligation to live by its rules and regulations is also misguided.

    “O, you who believed – be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice. And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just! That is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah, indeed, Allah is All-Acquainted with what you do.” (5:8)

    Majnun is powerless before Layla’s words; he cannot claim to love her and then ignore what she says.

    Peace.

  148. @Talha

    These are very different types of questions.

    As regards military attacks on civilians, they are frequently very justified. Anyone who has been in a war or have seen war situations, knows that guerilla fighters hide among civilians (who frequently shelter them), so that in most guerilla warfare situations these attacks are justified. They are justified too when it comes to the complete war, like Tokyo bombing or Hiroshima & Nagasaki. Completely justified. Unconditional surrender.

    Regarding the 2nd question- it is a non-question. What does it it mean, after all? Vigilante justice in the case of breakdown of a social order? Some kind of tit-for-tat among gangs in Northern Ireland situation? Showing strength of one’s group in a ghetto-type of situation?

    This is not clearly defined question after all & doesn’t show anything

    On the other hand, the question: are suicide bombing/other violence against civilians is justified to defend Islam from its enemies? belongs to quite another category. This is terrorist fanaticism, pure and simple.

    It is not about suicide bombings against enemy soldiers (which would be justified). It is against civilians, evidently in a non-war situation, who are perceived as enemies of Islam. For instance, Salman Rushdie, Israeli settlers in West Bank, “indecent” Western tourists in Islamic countries, public figures like Geert Wilders etc.

    This is a mental world apart, completely incompatible with any kind of modern functioning society.

    • Replies: @Talha
  149. @KenH

    For my thoughts on blasphemy vs. free speech in France, see: “Toward a Civil Global Dialogue on Blasphemy vs. Free Speech – A Muslim View” https://www.unz.com/book/kevin_barrett__we-are-not-charlie-hebdo/

    Muslims everywhere are generally appalled by the rise of atheism (and fall of Christianity) and all of the destruction of society that this has entailed. You would know this if you actually had Muslim friends. If I were to introduce you to my ordinary Muslim friends (American, French, Moroccan, Malaysian, Turkish, Palestinian, Iranian, Senegalese, etc. etc.) they would be extremely honored to meet you, and would immediately feel respect for you, if I introduced you as a Christian; whereas I would never even dream of introducing you as an atheist, since that would shock and distress them, mainly out of concern for your soul.

    Of course I also have a few hyperintellectual Muslim friends who can handle atheists. But the vast majority of ordinary Muslims love Christians but are horrified by atheism.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @haha
    , @KenH
  150. KenH says:
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    And as we know know, these guest workers never left, and many are now acting as a sort of fifth column for Erdogan.

    And if Germans ever regain control of Germany and force them to leave then it could mean war with Turkey since Erdogan now views the Turkish diaspora in Germany as a useful colonial population.

    • Agree: Rurik
  151. @Joe Levantine

    Cohn Bandit – another Jewish paedo who escaped the attention of Charlie hebdo

  152. Talha says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    As regards military attacks on civilians, they are frequently very justified.

    Uh hunh, the question clearly said “target and kill civilians” – this was not a “collateral damage” question.

    Tokyo bombing or Hiroshima & Nagasaki. Completely justified. Unconditional surrender.

    Thanks – why should Muslims take your moral claims of superiority seriously?

    I am consistent; you are not – I follow a principle approach – you do not. When things are important to you, you are willing to kill off civilians (by the tens of thousands), you simply don’t find Muslim reasons important.

    This is exactly the reason why Western claims to moral superiority (coming from people like yourself) are yawned at in the Muslim world. Maybe they convince other Westerners, but that’s just tribal preference.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  153. chuckywiz says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    You are confusing religion with ethnicity. If you go to Latin Muslims in South Americas.
    The 2nd largest population in Russia is Muslim which is not a typical brain washed representation as engrained in the Western minds through propaganda. A typical Muslim is like a Saudi or Kingdoms in the M.E. Stereotypical.

    Indonesia, Malaysia, China, Russia, Kazakhastan, Uzbekistan, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh…. constitute a large Muslim population (different ethnicities).

    I remembered reading Gen. Flynn’s bragging remarks that no Muslim has ever won a Nobel Prize. First who gives a crap of this prize. War criminals have won this prize, too. and 2nd the Gen. has to google about Nobel prize winner Dr. Abdus Salam in particle physics.

    Who made mathematics so easy by introducing concept or philosophy of zero. It came from M.E of course Muslim. Indians came up with 1 through 9 numbers.
    Think about multiplying 123 by 14 in Romans. How many pages you would need to get the answer. Where would be modern science with the concept of zero. I can not imagine.
    We need to be more open minded. All of us.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  154. Mycale says:
    @Colin Wright

    Well, here, note that America is a culture built to assimilate immigrants.

    Correction – we WERE a culture built to assimilate immigrants. We were a culture that told immigrants that America comes first, don’t teach your kids your native tongue, ascribe to American values, and you will do fine. For the most part, that worked, as very few of us are still speaking German, Italian, Spanish, etc.

    However, the past 30 years or so, America is a culture where you are taught your identity comes first and your country hates you for it. This is why the sons and daughters of so many immigrants seem to have such a large axe to grind against the only country they know (as Sailer discusses on his blog so often). Hell we are even similar sentiments among people today in the US, saying “racism” is not free speech and should be punished, etc. I also think this shift in mindset was inevitable post-65 as immigrants from all over the world swamped the nation and transformed it.

  155. @Kevin Barrett

    “Do you understand the indignation regarding the publication of the Mohammed cartoons?”

    You conflate blasphemy with indignation. One can be indignant about many things beyond religion. Some people don’t like Picasso’s “art” and would be indignant when it is considered equivalent to the Old Masters. Others don’t like chocolate and may be indignant if told they were oddballs. Being indignant is neither a license to riot or nor a right to demand that the rest of society conform to a minority’s belief system.

  156. @Talha

    I have always said the main common denominator of ‘terrorist’ groups/countries is lack of a decent army.

    • Replies: @haha
  157. If only a minority of people today hold traditional religion sacred, then we are indeed living in the end times. http://imranhosein.com/product/jerusalem-in-the-quran-an-islamic-view-of-the-destiny-of-jerusalem-english/

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Astuteobservor II
  158. @Iris

    The fact that you got so triggered about my obvious and realistic statements speaks volumes. As do your derisive comments about those with other types of needs. People who are insecure in their own beliefs do such things.

    You might want to do an internal deep-dive to figure out where all of that nastiness comes from. One valid guess is that it’s a byproduct of whatever brand of strident, organized religion you choose to consume. The Bible Belt is full of arrogant, nasty types and that is not random occurrence; they are trained that way.

  159. @Talha

    I do not claim moral superiority (in fact, I frequently find moralizing annoying). But, to be completely honest:

    * when in total war as WW2, and confronted with enemy like Japan which does not subscribe to Geneva convention & which has shown indefinitely many times it is capable & willing to wage a war of complete extermination, including mass suicides of their own people- then, all measures are permitted. Japan should have been bombed until complete & utter submission, and there was not any other alternative.

    * in the case of guerilla warfare, it is evident, for any discernible person, that questions posed are about such situation. Who, in his right mind, would pose a question on bombing some random civilians in a peaceful or limited war situation? For instance, in the case of clear air superiority- when did Israel bomb civilian targets in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq,… which were not connected with guerilla warfare ? Never. It did not happen.

    As for advocating violence against those perceived as enemies of a religion or something similar: what would be reaction, or attitude of most Jews, everywhere, if some decided to publicly burn Hebrew Bible or the Talmud? Or Buddhists if someone publicly burns the Tripitaka? Or Hindus if anyone publicly burns Vedas, Upanishads & Mahabharata? Or Sikhs if someone burns, on TV, Grant Sahib?

    The answer is obvious.

    Only inwardly cowardly religious culture is capable of this behavior in modern times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

    Apostasy in Islam
    ………………….
    More than 20 Muslim-majority states have laws that declare apostasy by Muslims to be a crime.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Ron Unz
    , @Curmudgeon
  160. Talha says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    This was a great interview between Russel Brand and Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens). I love what he said here:
    “In an economic and materialistic society, to renounce fame – one of the sort of icons of our systems, of our secular faith – is an act of secular apostasy.”

    It would be very interesting if you could get Russel Brand on your podcast to discuss these things.

    Wa salaam.

  161. padre says:
    @JohnPlywood

    I am not religious, but I don’t see,why would I mock someone’s belief?As I see it, mockers are the people, who can’t do anything of substance, so they start mocking, so they would still look smart!

  162. anon[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @KenH

    Blasphemy laws have been circulating without being legislated. Facebook Twitter NYTimes ( center of the cosmos of the gatekeeping ) ,publishing houses and visual media have sharpened and hones their skills of suppressing information, purveying falsehoods ,and creating false knowledge .

    Saudi does away with somebody by cutting the throat with a sword . Despicable scene and very painful for the victims . America uses lethal injection , prevents DNA evidence or uses plea to ensnare someone or chokes before being indicted. Some even don’t return the bodies or harvest organs, uses human shield to shoot the father or sister . Its complex .

    Blasphemy is on the same spectrum . Its how you do it that matters .Does it look more civil and edifying ?

    At the ned of the day, lets admit we don’t respect sacred ,we abuse (French Muslim ) , we abuse ( US gov . Check with the whistleblower or Assange ) and we incite ( ((( ))) by controlled media . We fear being labeled as a blasphemer against (( )) . We avoid it so much that we look like the frightened victims of the raging and rampaging French muslim but at social gathering and, at work in public places. But it is the skull cap that crops up in our awareness .

  163. haha says:
    @JohnPlywood

    “Religion has no standing in the modern world”. May be on your wish list but is not the reality. Ask about 4 billion people in the world, who still carry some religious faith and practice.

    Your atheism is grand and total, and your faith in science and rationality is rock-hard. All I can say is do not make a bigoted belief of that, do not turn it into a new religion. If you were on 100% sure ground for your beliefs you would not waste time advocating for them. Would you waste time arguing with someone who claimed 2+2 = 5? Perhaps the believers are like the 2+2=5 type, perhaps not. Who knows. In any case, whatever happened to “to each his own” and “live and let live”.

    BTW, if I may, may I ask you your views on: Are there two genders or an infinite variety? Is gender fixed at birth or a matter of choice? Is race a valid category or simply a social construct? Does intelligence (not IQ scores which may be imperfect) have a genetic and therefore racial component? Are the social sciences fairly scientific and logical? I ask these in a spirit of humility to test some pet theories of mine. Thanks in advance.

  164. Robjil says:

    Making laws for blasphemy is a slippery slope.

    We already have laws for it for the Big 6 religion.

    The Big 6 religion even without laws is the biggest religion on earth.

    People all over the world greatly fear this religion.

    In most of the world, one loses ones job or is ostracized for doubting this religion.

    We don’t need more blasphemy laws.

    Otherwise, humans will return to animal kingdom, any speech is a potential blasphemy crime.

    Speech for humans is what makes us humans.

    Restricted speech brings us back to the animal kingdom.

  165. @Kevin Barrett

    I don’t consider any belief to be sacred.

    But I also don’t go out of my way to attack any belief like the cartoonists.

    And the cartoonists seems to have a super strong, strange fixation on Islam. A very mild interest in Christianity. zero interest in Judaism.

    And the Christian anons in the comments are falling for it.

    Retards.

    • Replies: @Talha
  166. Rurik says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Muslims everywhere are generally appalled by the rise of atheism (and fall of Christianity)

    https://www.kunc.org/npr-news/2020-07-10/turkey-converts-istanbuls-iconic-hagia-sophia-back-into-a-mosque

    they just destroyed St. Georgios Christian church, known as the “Hagia Sophia of Bursa.”

    https://primepatriot.com/2020/09/03/turkey-demolishes-iconic-christian-church-the-hagia-sophia-of-bursa/

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Iris
    , @anon
  167. Talha says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    As I said before; I do not condone the targeting the killing of civilians in either circumstance. You condone targeting and killing them in a certain circumstance.

    what would be reaction, or attitude of most Jews, everywhere, if some decided to publicly burn Hebrew Bible or the Talmud?

    Are you telling me that most Jews wouldn’t care to legally take steps to interdict someone from burning a Torah or Talmud in Israel? Because that simply isn’t true:
    “The infliction of “injury to religious sentiments” constitutes a criminal offense in Israel and is punishable by one year of imprisonment. Indictments under this offense, however, are extremely rare. As discussed below, under limited circumstances the potential for harming religious feelings may also constitute a ground for prohibiting the screening of movies or the distribution of publications.

    Section 173 of the Penal Law 5737-1977 provides as follows:

    Injury to Religious Sentiments

    173. If a person does any of the following, then he is liable to one year imprisonment:

    (1) he publishes a publication that is liable crudely to offend the religious faith or sentiment of others;
    (2) he voices in a public place and in the hearing of another person any word or sound that is liable crudely to offend the religious faith or sentiment of others.[219]”
    https://www.loc.gov/law/help/blasphemy/index.php#Israel

    The vast majority of Muslims in France did not react violently, the ones that do want something to be done, want it to be done via legal means. Now, I personally agree with Anonstarter’s comment. A religious minority should understand and respect its position as a minority. Pushing an anti-blasphemy law upon a majority population that has no care for such is not pragmatic not practical. Now, if one day France wakes up and 60-70% of its population is Muslim, then they can revisit codifying and enacting a law that will punish blasphemy. At that point it will simply be a natural expression of the sentiments of the majority of the populace.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  168. Svigor says:
    @anon

    Okay, but most of “Christianity” is actually worse about this than Islam is. I remember some Muslim issuing a fatwa against some jevv for defaming Jesus (who Muslims revere as a prophet or some such, IIRC, but not a divinity). And somehow, I don’t recall any of the myriad Christian heretics we have running around doing the same (and if they had, it would have carried less weight, I’m guessing).

  169. haha says:
    @Jim Brewer

    Aye. They would then cease to be terrorists and become somewhat like NKorea, leaving the world alone unless the world bothers them.

  170. Talha says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    And the cartoonists seems to have a super strong, strange fixation on Islam.

    It’s not strange – it’s a very serious contender (possibly the only serious one left) to their worldview.

    A very mild interest in Christianity.

    It’s no longer fun beating the whipping boy when you’ve already been at it for so long…gets boring and one’s arm gets tired.

    Zero interest in Judaism.

    Hmmmmm…?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  171. Liza says:

    I was so glad when the Charlie Hebdo office get all shot up and am sorry the perps didn’t succeed in launching all those bastards into eternity. They are not “satirists”, as they are always described. They are pornographers and liars.

    Now, that doesn’t mean I want millions of foreigners living in western countries, but if they’re going to be here, well, let them do some good. They redeemed themselves in my eyes.

  172. Svigor says:
    @Elmer's Washable School Glue

    Probably true, though some, like libertardians, make a thing out of not imposing their values, because not imposing their values is their value.

    ‘Course, at least in the case of libertardians, this just means they’re limp-wristed mopes begging to have their country wrested from them and pillaged (which is basically what we see in America today).

    It’s nice to dream about a society based on live-and-let-live, but you have to wake up some time; if you aren’t imposing order, someone else will. The trick (for western-European-descended peoples) is to impose just enough to keep your society stable, and stop there.

  173. haha says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    My experience as well. Pious Muslims do in fact love Christ and Christians and have a horror of atheism. But, quite long ago, I stopped discussing religion or divinity in social settings, having realized that these are useless and needlessly acrimonious discussions and that “A man convinced against his will is of much the same opinion still”. However, I do detest people trying to stuff their beliefs, lack of belief, or outright atheism of a militant variety down my throat. Although more of an atheist myself, I still believe that religious belief is a necessity for social structure and for many people. I therefore respect these peoples’ needs and beliefs and think the militant atheist types are just as fanatical as the jihadis or the crusaders. Curiously, strong atheism is more to be found among the liberal, social science types. The engineers and hard science folks (especially mathematicians and physicists) are either cheerfully indifferent to these grand debates or, like some of the greatest of them, possess a strong, quiet and deeply introspective belief in “something profound and higher, some higher force”.

    This has turned into a much needed break from political debates!

    • Agree: Svigor
    • Thanks: Iris
  174. Agent76 says:

    Sep 26, 2003 57 Years Ago: U.S. and Britain Approved Use of Islamic Extremists to Topple Syrian Government

    BBC reports that – in 1957 – the British and American leaders approved the use of Islamic extremists and false flag attacks to topple the Syrian government.

    http://m.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/sep/27/uk.syria1?cat=politics&type=article

    Jan 10, 2015 Charlie Hebdo Shootings – Censored Video

    This is footage of the Charlie Hebdo shootings which has been restricted or taken down from a number of websites. As you will see it contains no blood, gore or graphic violence. It does however punch a major hole in the official story.

  175. Rurik says:
    @Rurik

    Muslims everywhere are generally appalled by the rise of atheism (and fall of Christianity)

    I have no problem with Islam or Muslim in their own nations.

    But as immigration of every type is forced on the West by genocidal Jewish supremacists- like Soros and Barbara Spectre and their Satanic ilk,

    there are going to be increasingly hostilities, leading to massive strife, hatred and eventually death.

    I just don’t think that’s really going to be a positive development, as already America’s streets are on fire over racial hatreds.

    Why does anyone think that the solutions to racial hatred, is to compound it with more colonization/invasions and cultural and ethnic hatreds?

    It’s almost like there’s some strange ((force)) out there that feeds on hatred. Hmm..

    (won’t be able to respond for days)

    God bless you all, and Peace.

    • Agree: Trinity, Robjil
    • Thanks: ivan
    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @chuckywiz
  176. Iris says:
    @Rurik

    Hi Rurik;

    Far from me top defend Erdogan’s vile politics, but this Turkish newspaper says that Hagia Sophia of Bursa fell to ruin after 7 years of disrepair, and because of petty power fights between local authorities.

    It also adds that they intend to rebuild it.

    https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/hagia-sophia-of-bursa-falls-to-ruin-after-7-years-of-disrepair-157942

  177. TG says:

    Islam is a religion of peace and all who say different must be killed.

    If nothing else, nobody can accuse the muslims of having a sense of irony.

  178. Trinity says:
    @Priss Factor

    YOUR COMMENT IS THE FIRST AND SO FAR THE BEST COMMENT ON HERE.

    Jesus Christ and Mohammad are fair game, but don’t you dare talk about the Jew, Saint George, Saint Martin Luther “Kang” or the beloved Saint Trayvon.

    Hmm, Jusse Smollet was a threefer, and had all the bases covered, Jew-Black and “homersexual.” Wow, talk about hitting the genetic lottery.

    Baby Nut&Yahoo marching for free speech in Europe!? In France of all places!? You can’t make this shit up. When are (((these people))) going to be called out for their lies, shit stirring, and hypocrisy??? What chutzpah on these (((small hats.)))

  179. Ron Unz says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    when in total war as WW2, and confronted with enemy like Japan which does not subscribe to Geneva convention & which has shown indefinitely many times it is capable & willing to wage a war of complete extermination, including mass suicides of their own people- then, all measures are permitted. Japan should have been bombed until complete & utter submission, and there was not any other alternative.

    Well, my impression is that you’re just some sort of ignorant right-winger, with a very limited knowledge of history.

    I’m hardly a WWII specialist myself, but based upon the mainstream scholarship I’ve read, the US military had an absolutely appalling record of atrocities, quite possibly far worse than that of the Japanese, even before the obviously illegal atomic bombings of two large cities. Moreover, that scale of atrocities, particularly against the Germans, actually continued after the end of the war, including starving to death huge numbers of surrendered POWs. Here’s a section of my long article from last year in which I discuss some of these matters:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-understanding-world-war-ii/#the-enormous-scale-of-allied-war-crimes

    Perhaps you should go back to Breitbart, which might suit you better…

  180. @Talha

    You don’t seem to understand the point of my comment.

    Replace interest with attack. Easier to understand.

    • Thanks: Talha
  181. Talha says:
    @Ron Unz

    Reminds me of that quote by Curtis LeMay (who was the architect of the aerial total war strategy over Japan):
    “I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal. Fortunately, we were on the winning side.”
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1995/06/19/the-general-and-world-war-iii

    Peace.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  182. I think one angle is cruelly missing in your perspective, Guillaume. Charlie Hebdo had been, since it it was saved from bankruptcy and placed under the direction of Philippe Val in the 1990s, a neocon operation, and enraging Muslims was its main purpose. Every smart person in France, at least the million or so who follow Alain Soral’s website égalité & reconciliation, knows that.
    It is also well knows that there are many very strange inconsistencies in the official story about the 2015 killing, and strange occurances in the circumstances leading to it. Anybody who did a bit a research smells the involvement of Zion-controled secret services. The men who were murdered, at the moment when they were starting to see the role they were made to play and rebel against Val, were actually framed and turned into martyrs of Islamic terrorism, for the great benefit of Israel.
    In France, the average Muslim is more informed about this kind of things, and more inclined to basic, healthy, conspiracy theories. That, rather than their Islamic prejudices per se, explains in large part their answer to the poll. In contrast, the French, who massively demonstrated with “Je suis Charlie” signs, are manipulated to the highest degree. No person correctly informed would ever identify with this sign. Apart from the fact that Charlie is the anagram to Ishrael (yes, I believe it was intentional), I repeat: Charlie Hebdo was a neocon propaganda machine to enrage both Muslim against the French, and the French against Muslims. So the poll doesn’t really prove that Muslims are “terrorist sympathizers”, it proves that Muslims are generally smart enough to see what’s going on, and not to repeat stupidly “I am Charlie.” Moreover, most of them assimilate, correctly, poll institutes to mainstream media (merdia is their common name today), and ajust their answer in consequence.
    Another point: how can someone, French or whatever, say he “doesn’t understand” why Muslims should be offended by Charlie Hebdo’s obsene caricature of Muhammad? You have to be really stupid not to understand that, and what the poll shows is the utter stupidity of the average French. By the way the question is framed, this poll is, in itself, a manipulation.
    At least, I wanted to point out that it is possible to see things in this way. The truth may be in between.

    • Agree: Ron Unz, Joe Levantine
    • Thanks: Tommy Thompson, Iris, ivan
    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @Meena
  183. Robjil says:
    @Rurik

    It is very (((racist))) to think that non-European peoples have to all immigrant to European majority nations.

    It is a concept that non-European peoples can not make a good nest for themselves in their homelands. They needed to be (((trained))) by the Europeans or the (((Super Elites))) in European majority lands to be (((civilized))).

    The world wide Zion regime changes and Zion Vulture capitalism in non-European nations makes it very difficult for these nations to develop a working economy.

    Yet, the (((MSM BLM Zombies protesters))) in the Zion ruled lands in the Zion west do not dare to look there. Our Faux Free Zion press does not allow that. It is (((blasphemy)) to look at that.

  184. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:

    This makes for a very large pool of terrorist sympathizers and potential Islamic terrorists.

    Nope.

    Prophet Muhammad (saw) was sent to finally establish true God-awareness on His Earth. True God-awareness is, and can only be, the pure monotheism of Islam.

    The Almighty One says that Prophet Muhammad (saw) has been sent as a mercy upon mankind. If not for him, we true monotheists would also be spewing mind-bending garbage like triple mangod deities, and all other kinds of pagan abominations. You pagan godless scum can’t imagine the blessing he truly is… you know, the difference between Paradise and Hell.

    So, contrary to your claim, this actually makes for a very large pool of warriors who will stand up for True Monotheism. May the Almighty One bless them all.

    The whitevil race is the real cesspool of terrorist sympathisers and potential Pagan Godless terrorists. I remember so many degenerates here who were virtually orgasming about wanting to view the Christchurch massacre.

    Hell awaits you all, I promise you.

    • Replies: @Talha
  185. @Bardon Kaldian

    I’m confused. You appear to be saying bombing civilian targets where there is guerilla activity is understandable and not a war crime, but the Einsatzgruppen shooting partisans and those aiding and abetting, is a war crime.
    That would lead to Israel bombing Palestinians in their homes is not a war crime, but the IDF shooting suspected guerillas is a war crime.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  186. @Laurent Guyénot

    I agree overall. However, in respect to the poll, most polls are manipulative, and rarely consist of one question. The normal process is to use other questions to lead a person to the answer they want, wherever possible.
    The question of being indignant may, or may not, be accurate depending on the questions proceeding. For example, if several questions leading up to the “indignant” question deal with violence and rioting, “indignant” would be associated with violence and rioting.
    In Question 7 (shown) the question is ‘do you put your religious views before the Republic?’ Given devout Muslims openly state they are only bound by their faith, why would it be surprising that the “laws of man” – the Republic, was secondary. Devout Christians would see that as ‘render unto Caesar that which is Ceasar’s’. No surprise.
    Islam is more than a faith. It is also a political philosophy and a legal philosophy. It is, for all intents and purposes, the state. While the Sunni may be inclined less so than Shia, I recall reading, at the time of the Iranian Revolution, that the devout Shia approached life from the perspective of every day was Karbala, as in the Battle of Karbala. They are prepared to die for the cause. When your religion is your political and legal system, that is possible. It hasn’t been that way across Europe for more than 500 years.

    • Agree: ivan
    • Replies: @Talha
  187. A religion that legitimizes lying to unbelievers is in essence a religion of lies. You cannot reason with people whose world view is predicated on theirs being the only way or else its the sword for you.

  188. Talha says:
    @anonymous

    The Almighty One says that Prophet Muhammad (saw) has been sent as a mercy upon mankind.

    Followed by:

    The whitevil race

    You don’t see the contradiction in this? How is the white race excluded from “mankind” exactly?

    Hell awaits you all, I promise you.

    As a bit of advice, I’d be very careful with promises that are not in your hands:
    “A man said: ‘By Allah, Allah will not forgive this person!’ Allah Almighty said: ‘Who is he who swore by Me that I will not forgive someone? I have forgiven him and nullified your good deeds.’” – reported in Muslim

    There was a day when Umar (ra) left his house in rage to kill the Prophet (puh) and returned a Muslim. How can you stand in front of a brother like this* (who is white and changed paths) and say he is “whitevil”? Is he not your brother? Did he not reflect and change?

    If being on this forum causes you this much anger, I would sincerely suggest you spend your time in better pursuits; it is not helpful to your soul, nor is there much benefit to be gained for the deen by approaching people in this manner. May Allah swt grant us all patience and wisdom.

    Wa salaam.

    [MORE]

  189. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    The St. Georgios Greek Orthodox Church, known as the “Hagia Sophia of Bursa,” since it was used both as a church and a mosque in the past, was estimated to have been built in 1896, was converted into a mosque after the exchange, but became abandoned because it was not used after the Yeni Özlüce Mosque was built.

    The historical building, whose door was locked after passing to the foundation, was not maintained for years, and cracks began to appear in the building. Noting the situation to the Regional Directorate of Foundations and drawing attention to the danger of demolition, Nilüfer Municipality attempted again in 2016 to control the church and demanded that the building be allocated to the municipality for renovation. However, it was stated that the building cannot be used for any purpose other than a place of worship and that this place was a mosque.

    https://orthodoxtimes.com/hagia-sophia-of-bursa-was-demolished/

  190. Whitewolf says:
    @Talha

    I didn’t know they were this vile. Wow!

    I honestly can’t believe that believing Christians wouldn’t also be up at arms (legally) about this.

    Peace.

    Muslims doing the dirty work that Christians refuse to do. Worrying about legality doesn’t really come into it for devout worshippers of any religion. Their god is the ultimate moral authority not the politicians making the laws.

    • Replies: @Talha
  191. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnPlywood

    but that makes them feel like retarded clowns.

    On the contrary sir, we see the likes of you as retarded clowns, the idiots who believe intelligent life came out of nothing.

    They are afraid of scientific experiments, imperical measurements, and objective reality.

    On the contrary sir, we marvel at the Greatness of the Almighty One, for every amazing aspect of His Creation, known and unknown.

    We are certainly not afraid of what man will discover tomorrow. The only thing certain is, every amazing thing mankind will discover, will only go on to prove that there is a Creator of it all.

    And religious people are only mad that their own faith in God is no longer tenable

    Perhaps that is true for pagan godless faithful like hindoos, christians, buddhists, etc., but I assure you, muslims are not mad all. The following verses have liberated us;

    Say, “He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent.” Holy Quran 112

    We truly believe those logical verses are plenty tenable.

  192. @Curmudgeon

    Your questions are confusing.

    What Ensatzgruppen did was clearly a crime, they shot civilians as civilians. While in modern urban warfare, “good guys” of necessity kill civilians who are intermingled with terrorists/guerilla fighters in house-to- house combat. The same applies to precise bombing of ammunition storage facilities with civilians living near it. This is not a war crime.

    What would be a crime is, say, catching civilians who had been helping ISIS and shooting them after the fighting had ceased. And this is not the case.

    As for Israelis bombing Palestinians in their homes-this is nonsense. In which mental world do you live? IDF, when it kills civilians (apart from knife terror attacks) is only when destroying the military infrastructure of Hamas & Hezbollah, frequently placed in the midst of civilian Arab population.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @anon
  193. @chuckywiz

    Who made mathematics so easy by introducing concept or philosophy of zero. It came from M.E of course Muslim. Indians came up with 1 through 9 numbers.
    Think about multiplying 123 by 14 in Romans.

    Many claim the Aztecs introduced the concept of zero in mathematics. Either way, it’s overrated in my opinion. Even people counting things on their fingers understand that there is no finger needed for nothing to count. As for Roman numerals, to a Roman, there would be no problem, because they used their numbers and knew no others. They would easily understand that CXXIII x X was MCCXXX, and IV x CXXIII was CDXCII, the two together are MDCCXXII. Not many pages at all.
    In fact, even in Europe, the basis of counting is different. The French use 20 as a basis, English/Germanic uses ten (some would say 12 is the basis for old English). It’s built into our language. In the numbers 13-19 “teen” means “plus ten”. Twenty is (was) literally “two tens”, or some say “twin tens”. Mathematics is a language of its own. That is why language skills and mathematics are processed in the same part of the brain.

    • Replies: @chuckywiz
    , @anon
  194. Talha says:
    @Curmudgeon

    n Question 7 (shown) the question is ‘do you put your religious views before the Republic?’ Given devout Muslims openly state they are only bound by their faith, why would it be surprising that the “laws of man” – the Republic, was secondary.

    Why is this a problem? Of course religious Muslims put the religious views above the Republic – as they should:
    “The response of the believers when they are called to Allah and His Messenger to judge between them is that they say, ‘We hear and we obey.’ And those are the successful.” (24:51)

    But that doesn’t mean that they should not observe the legal canon of the land that thy reside in; that is part of the obligation one has as a Muslim as part of the social contract in the society in which they reside. If they don’t like adhering to the law, they have two options; 1) petition to change it via legal means or 2) leave.

    For instance, in the state in which I live, polygamy is a punishable offense. I think that’s a stupid law (especially since the same state lets men marry men); I have zero moral qualms about polygamy and think it should be legal. But it doesn’t matter; the fact that it is illegal means I should adhere to the law whether or not I find it consistent with my beliefs.

    Islam is more than a faith. It is also a political philosophy and a legal philosophy.

    No, it’s a faith, it just refuses to cede authority in those realms of human society that other religions used to have and thought it natural, but do not any longer.

    It hasn’t been that way across Europe for more than 500 years.

    Well that’s when it sort of began…it’s been a slow drip ever since then – these things take time to sort themselves out:
    “In Scotland until the 18th century it was punishable by death, and in England it is both a statutory and a common-law offense.”
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/blasphemy

    “THE OFFENCE of Blasphemy has been official removed from the Irish constitution.
    Ireland voted to repeal the reference to blasphemy in the Constitution by a huge majority in a referendum held back in October 2018.”
    https://www.irishpost.com/news/offence-blasphemy-officially-scrapped-irish-law-177509

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  195. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    I know one thing for sure: if anybody there would have dared producing such cartoons about the Lord Jesus-Christ, they would probably not even have made it to prison and would have been lynched in the streets before.

    Well, I don’t know about the “lynching,” but yes, we muslims would not take too kindly to it, if it should happen in our lands.

    I can truthfully say that I could not even bring myself to see those abominations (you can’t un-see such vile things), especially of such a blessed prophet of the Almighty One.

    Those who drew that, may the curses of God be on them.

  196. Talha says:
    @Whitewolf

    Worrying about legality doesn’t really come into it for devout worshippers of any religion.

    Well it should.

    Their god is the ultimate moral authority not the politicians making the laws.

    Correct. But that same God states that we are obligated to abide by the law of the land. Vigilantism and breaking the law is not sanctioned. I know plenty of very qualified Muslim scholars – these are the circles I mingle with; none of them will 1) condone the attack on the Charlie Hebdo office as legitimate and 2) shed a tear over the staff that were killed (or carry an inane “Je suis Charlie” sign).

    Peace.

  197. VICB3 says:
    @Priss Factor

    Any religion or sect that disallows its adherents from dealing or treating equally, or even encourages dishonestly, with others not of that religion or sect is a cult. Special ways of dressing, special foods, demanding special treatment in civil affairs and so forth are signs of a cultish mindset.

    That said, some cults – the Amish come to mind here – are innocuous and inoffensive; they just want to be left alone. Ditto the mainstream Mormons, noted for their honesty, who in fact have an admirable social service and welfare system for its followers.

    Those groups are the exceptions to the rule. In the case of the Muslims and Jews, again with the odd and doubtless exceptions of certain sects – the Druze and Alawites come to mind here – increasingly what one sees are shrill demands for dispensations and exceptions for their behaviours and beliefs based on nothing more than identity politics.

    They push, others concede, and then they push some more. And very soon, all else takes a secondary place to their immediate desires and, let’s say it, frauds and fraudulent, shrill demands on the public purse.

    As for the latter, one need only, to site just two examples, observe in the United States the endemic welfare fraud of the Haredi in Northern New Jersey. There are similar frauds amongst the Muslim populations where similar frauds are enabled by Muslim married naming conventions, e.g. the married woman does not share her husbands last name and thus is able to collect welfare.

    Milking the system, seeking advantage, whining, guilting, bullying and most recently rioting until they get what they want is the game plan of the cult.

    France is at the end game of all this foolish concession and accommodation. If French culture is to survive, then the native and historical French population will have to learn to fight back, and hard, the same as you would with any bully. This will be to the horror of its leftist politicians, for whom Charles Martel doubtless is an embarrassing anachronism, but it’s the only solution lest France devolve into a backward looking, savage religious and medieval shithole.

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

    • Agree: ivan
  198. Anon[367] • Disclaimer says:

    Left forums still not allowing comments section. Against free speech

  199. @Ron Unz

    I’m hardly a WWII specialist myself, but based upon the mainstream scholarship I’ve read, the US military had an absolutely appalling record of atrocities, quite possibly far worse than that of the Japanese, even before the obviously illegal atomic bombings of two large cities. Moreover, that scale of atrocities, particularly against the Germans, actually continued after the end of the war, including starving to death huge numbers of surrendered POWs.

    Your theses are products of worthless conspiracy crap you ingest in gallons. That’s what you need: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

    Critical thinking

    But, there is no need to get emotional. Remember: If you can’t be a good example, then you’ll just have to be a horrible warning.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @R.C.
  200. chuckywiz says:
    @TG

    Islam is as violent as Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, or Buddhism. Interesting to watch the youtube videos where the stereotypes “peaceful” Buddhist burning houses of non Buddhists (Christians, Hindus, and Muslims), going on a killing spree in Burma. Not a single word from peace icon or CIA asset Dali Lama about such killing.

    Violence is not monopoly of any religion.

    • Agree: ivan
  201. Iris says:
    @Joe Levantine

    Thanks for the links, but the first link did not open probably because it was doomed to the memory hole.

    Maryse Wolinski is an accomplished author, and her husband the late Georges Wolinski, before being brutally shot aged 80, was one of the most famous cartoonist of France. Yet, despite all the media outrage over the Charlie Hebdo attack, nobody in the mainstream press has reported the revelations she made in her book “Chérie, je vais à Charlie”.

    She collected the testimonies of four eye-witnesses who saw the Kouachi brothers being accompanied at the Charlie Hebdo building by a third man, dressed in black, not armed but wearing a bullet-proof vest. He quietly disappeared and his existence never investigated by the police. Furthermore, one of the witnesses, a dresser at the Comédie Bastille theater, was bullied by the Paris police into withdrawing her testimony about a third man taking part in the attack.

    A fifth witness, a woman who drove her car past the Kouachi’s upon their arrival, also stated seeing three men inside.

    Here is the extract about the 3rd man from Mrs Wolinski’s book:
    These revelations were almost entirely ignored by the MSM, only discussed in a handful of alternative webzines:

    https://www.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/attentat-de-charlie-hebdo-maryse-177617

    https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/societe/2016/01/06/31003-20160106ARTFIG00205-charlie-hebdo-quand-maryse-wolinski-accuse.php

    • Thanks: Joe Levantine
  202. @Talha

    Why is this a problem? Of course religious Muslims put the religious views above the Republic – as they should:
    “The response of the believers when they are called to Allah and His Messenger to judge between them is that they say, ‘We hear and we obey.’ And those are the successful.” (24:51)

    You’ve answered your own question. In a secular society, whether you like it or not, religion defines self, not nation or country. If religion defines nation or country, then let’s get on with it and have an all out war. There have been RC and Protestant Germans, Swedes, Norwegians, etc. They understood that religion was important to self, but has to be put aside for the benefit of all. Do RCs in Russia refuse to assimilate because the Eastern Church is predominant? Even India, with many different religions present has fewer problems than Europe and its Muslim population.

    No, it’s a faith, it just refuses to cede authority in those realms of human society that other religions used to have and thought it natural, but do not any longer.

    Again, you have defeated you own denial. Refusing to cede authority is a political act, not a religious act, especially if it comes from the collective, not self.

    There have been, and are, plenty of laws in countries that exist, but haven’t been enforced in living memory. Ireland also repealed its abortion prohibition law, for better or worse. What’s your point?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  203. chuckywiz says:
    @Rurik

    “I have no problem with Islam or Muslim in their own nations”

    So which nation do you suggest? Russia, Bangladesh, India, Bosnia, Pakistan, Turkey, China, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia, several African countries, and countries around the globe with huge population of of Islamic faith.

    Need to be more specific.

    • Agree: Sya Beerens
  204. @Bardon Kaldian

    What Ensatzgruppen did was clearly a crime, they shot civilians as civilians.

    You need to stop reading the official narrative. Prior to the London Protocols that established the Nuremberg Kangaroo Court, the Peace of Westphalia had defined the Rules of Engagement for 245 years. Combatants were to be uniformed. Combatants not in uniform were spies. Those aiding and abetting spies were also considered spies. Spies could be executed summarily. Combatants were to avoid mixing with civilian populations.
    Further, civilian casualties were to be minimized to as great a degree as possible.

    The Einsatzgruppen were chasing down non uniformed combatants and those who were aiding and abetting them, i.e. spies, which was entirely consistent with the Rules of Engagement. Intentionally bombing civilian populations as government policy was not.
    If you wonder why in today’s world, up is down, black is white, and the builders of the civilization in which we live (or at least remnants of it) are all irredeemable deplorables, it all started at Nuremberg.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @VICB3
  205. Ron Unz says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Your theses are products of worthless conspiracy crap you ingest in gallons. That’s what you need: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

    Yep, like I thought you’re apparently just an ignorant right-winger who’d be much happier on Breitbart, endlessly ranting about Muslims, Mexicans, and “Evil Nazis.” Then again, you might also be some sort of Jewish-activist-type, operating here under-cover.

    Most of the sources I drew upon in my long account were leading academic scholars, journalists, or high-ranking American generals and military intelligence officers. So I guess they’re also just a bunch of “conspiracy theorists”:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-understanding-world-war-ii/

    • Replies: @Svigor
  206. Good, denying what the invaders did to the Palestinian, Syrian and Iraqi people is ‘holocaust denial’, and punishable by death. Muslims are facing the brunt of the latest holocaust, except one difference between the alleged Jewish holocaust, this holocaust is actually real.

  207. Not condemning Jews and Zionism is a hate crime

  208. R.C. says:

    The whole history of Western Civilization is being eradicated in a single generation. Sad.
    R.C.

  209. R.C. says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    What? Unz isn’t the one getting emotional, you are!

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  210. Talha says:
    @Curmudgeon

    In a secular society, whether you like it or not, religion defines self, not nation or country.

    Correct. Which is why Muslims have to adhere to the law of the land. If they eventually become demographically predominant, the entire situation is turned on its head; the society need not adhere to secular norms if the majority population deems it, just like how the society currently adheres to secular norms since the majority obviously deems it.

    This is simply a mathematics game.

    If religion defines nation or country, then let’s get on with it and have an all out war.

    Yes, this happens to be the historical European way of handling things, which is why Europe finds itself in the current paradigm.

    Again, you have defeated you own denial.

    Not at all.

    Refusing to cede authority is a political act, not a religious act, especially if it comes from the collective, not self.

    Again, this makes an a priori assumption that a political act and religious act are mutually exclusive. Which is a distinction Islam simply refuses to concede from the outset and which is why liberalism has the rest of the religions against the ropes – they let them define the terms and parameters, they set themselves up to lose and now they wonder – in between public whippings – why they are handed defeat after ignominious defeat. The second largest (and soon-to-be largest) religion in the world has no need to make concessions to others in definitional terms or axiomatic presuppositions.

    I mean, look, maybe the West will kick out Muslims in toto from its sovereign territory, but at the least, we’ll be able to hold our heads high on the Day of Judgment and say; “Our Lord, we were weak in the land and they expelled us, but when everyone else conceded, we never, ever acknowledged that men were sovereign over You.”

    What’s your point?

    My point was simply that it was a work in progress, not a clean break at some point 500 years ago.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  211. KenH says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Muslims everywhere are generally appalled by the rise of atheism (and fall of Christianity) and all of the destruction of society that this has entailed. You would know this if you actually had Muslim friends.

    I’m not speaking as a smart aleck atheist who thinks he has all the answers. I have few answers when it comes to religion but know enough to conclude that Christianity has largely turned its back on the race of people who accepted it, spread it far and wide and until recently made it into the world’s most dominant Abrahamic religion.

    Islam and Muslims have proven to be the nemesis of Europeans almost since Islam burst on the scene in the 7th century. The Koran and Muslim beliefs are largely incompatible with Western civilization. We are right to ask if it is wise to allow large numbers of Muslim to settle in Western nations.

    But the vast majority of ordinary Muslims love Christians but are horrified by atheism.

    Muslims sure have a strange way of showing their love for Christians. The suppression of the Coptic Christians in Egypt, rape gangs in the UK, periodic riots in France, the bloody Bataclan terror attack in 2015, the 2016 beheading of a Catholic priest in Normandy, France. Then in America we have the lovely Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib with their anti-white bigotry and hatred of right of political center, usually Christian white people. I could go on.

  212. anon[135] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You keep on lying a lot despite being corrected a lot . You are not learning .

  213. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Many claim the Aztecs introduced the concept of zero in mathematics.

    Did Many say to whom the Aztecs introduced their zero?

    They would easily understand that CXXIII x X was MCCXXX, and IV x CXXIII was CDXCII, the two together are MDCCXXII. Not many pages at all.

    I doubt the Romans did this. If I remember, they used
    these things for recording not for actual calculating.

    Did you first use Arabic numerals then convert to Roman?

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  214. @Ron Unz

    It’s Alain SORAL, for those who might want to search his name.

    He has been arrested for 48 hours recently on the ridiculous charges of provocation aux crimes et délits portant atteinte aux intérêts de la nation. Incitement to crimes against the interests of the nation – are so-called democrats something or what?!

    He’s president of Egalité & Réconciliation, whose website is one of the highest traffic news & politics websites in France, if not the highest, according to Alexa.

    Not unlike Unz I guess, in many ways.

  215. Meena says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    There have been a systematic efforts to create low grade permanent tension between muslim and Christian with executable controllable potential for significant ratcheting up . 911 , Iraq war and mass migration , attacks on Syria, terror attacks on Europe are examples of those flare ups. Zionist orchestrated those with supports and accomplices from Muslim and Christian

    They also maintain this low grade tension . Hedbo is an example of this sort of platform – serving as cooling station for the ship of the global control whose only fuel is hatred .

  216. @Ron Unz

    Mr. Unz

    I believe the conspicuous absence is likely due to the race-realist persuasions of M. Durocher.

    They resent M. Soral’s policy of, in his own words, main tendue, mais firme, towards Black and Muslim patriots, some of which are M. Soral’s supporters and bodyguards.

    They may also resent the sharpness of M. Soral’s socioeconomic analysis over their race-realist, IQ-based ones, towards which he employs his mastery of Marxist and Hegelian theory with great effect.

    Being Portuguese myself, I think I know just how much seemingly dumb people with little resources at hand, but provided with determined leadership, can achieve.

  217. @Talha

    Now, I personally agree with Anonstarter’s comment. A religious minority should understand and respect its position as a minority. Pushing an anti-blasphemy law upon a majority population that has no care for such is not pragmatic nor practical.

    It goes deeper.

    The question we have to ask is whether there is any actual injury inflicted by an expression. Injuries-in-fact are the basis for movement in such cases. Now …

    How does that which proceeds from ignorance actually harm the Prophet sallALLAHU ‘alaihi wa sallam? If we determine that it does not proceed from ignorance — even when obfuscatory, mixing truth with falsehood — then aren’t we lending credence to the intended message of the attack?

    For a statement to be defamatory, it is necessary to demonstrate that such injury occurred. How do rank falsehoods and distortions hold up as evidence of injury against the original record? We see them by the dozens in this thread alone. Do they really injure anyone but the person who advances them?

    Should we perceive the assassination of some Medinian-era Jews who composed provocative verse as evidence that the content of their expression was thus actionable, or should we place these events — categorized by the earliest biographers as “military campaigns” — in their proper historical context, holding that they constituted a temporary, tactically expeditious means of psychological warfare against an enemy that had already gathered formidable confederates to its camp, ever threatening to attack?

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Talha
  218. Anon[123] • Disclaimer says:

    The Creator of the universe is a singular, powerful, unique God who has no partners, no relatives, no associates, no peers, no rivals, no counterparts, no comparability, no beginning, no end, no limitations, no deficiencies, and no needs. He created us for only one purpose: to worship and obey Him. Any other reason to live is misguided and ultimately fruitless.
    God calls upon humanity to behave according to strict moral guidelines, which include strict prohibitions against murder, theft, criminality, adultery, fornication, intoxication, indecency, malice, deceit, treachery, transgression, injustice, torture, abuse, and defamation, among other things, and He calls upon humanity to uphold the opposite of these vices. The purpose of life on earth is to exert ourselves toward good, to prove our worth. Life, then, is simply a test. Right and wrong are made clear to us, and even though choosing the right action is not always easy, it is expected of us.
    After death, all humans will be resurrected and will stand before God and face judgement for every single action and belief. Each person is responsible for what they did or failed to do. No one will be punished for someone else’s wrong actions, and no one will be pardoned for their own wrong actions except through God’s mercy and forgiveness, IF such mercy was previously recognized and intensely beseeched during our life on earth. God repeatedly sent prophets and messengers with the same divine message, which has remained unchanged from the very beginning of human existence (prophets which include Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Soloman, Jesus Christ, and countless others, peace be upon them all). It is the generations after these great prophets of God who eventually went astray and introduced changes and deviations into God’s pure religion, necessitating the sending of further messengers, until the last messenger Muhammad was sent forth with the final revelation from God before the end of time. This revelation is preserved completely to this day, the Quran, and along with it the living legacy of the Prophet Muhammad, whose life and authentic teachings were faithfully recorded. The final message of Islam is an affirmation of all the prior prophets of God, and it is a call to unity among all people of religion in returning to the worship of God alone.

    The divine message has always been and remains as follows: God is one, and He is without any partners or other false gods. Only He is to be obeyed and worshipped. His commands and His will are to be given precedence in life, since we owe our entire existence and our sustenance to God, including every brain cell, every breath, and every heart beat. We are completely dependent upon our Creator, and we are expected to show gratitude and to submit our lives to Him, and that is the meaning of “Islam.”
    Although we were created by God with this purpose, and we were given the ability to recognize it as the truth, we happen to have a sworn enemy who is envious of us and whose stated goal is to mislead us and cause us to fail in our purpose. This enemy is none other than Satan, and his means are to distract humans with their desires and their lower selves. He abases them by tempting them with illicit sex, intoxicants, mindless entertainment, destructive habits and addictions, dishonestly obtained money, worldly indulgence, inflated egos, violence and strife, seeking power, and anything else to distract them from their Creator. It is many who are consumed by these diversions and who are held back from seeking God and fulfilling their true purpose in life.
    When all is said and done, and our lives have ended, we will all be resurrected, and our fate will be either to burn in Hellfire (if we did not believe in God and obey and worship Him with sincerity and with effort), or we will enter Paradise, the abode of all pleasure and comfort in the presence of our Maker. As for those who were mostly on the right path but had significant shortfalls, they will burn in Hellfire for some time, but eventually God will show them mercy and admit them into Paradise. One’s degree of torment in Hell and the length of time spent in Hell, or the degree of reward in Paradise (which is eternal), is commensurate with his faith (or lack thereof) and the goodness of his actions (or lack thereof), in keeping with God’s infinite justice.When the world comes to an end before the Day of Judgment (and that time is ever near), everything and everyone will be dead, except for the Living One who does not die, the Creator, all praise and glory be to Him. A majority of humanity will later wish that they could have remained dead rather than face what they failed to prepare for. My fellow Children of Adam, take heed, and prepare yourselves. If you think any of this is a fairy tale, think about your own existence and your very presence before your computer screen, and think about how much of a fairy tale that itself would otherwise seem

  219. mvanK says: • Website
    @Joe Levantine

    Yes, the shooting with the AK-47 on the policeman is also to be seen in this art video https://cargocollective.com/lcvonsukmeister/Hoax-The-Archive-II-The-Fredou-Files

    • Thanks: Joe Levantine
  220. Iris says:
    @Joe Levantine

    One video that widely circulated but was later removed after Charlie Hebdo, was one of the terrorists shooting, with what looked like an Ak47 if my memory is right, an injured policeman in the head at almost zero point range.

    IMHO, the video of French Algerian police officer Ahmed Merabet, the 12th casualty of the Charlie Hebdo attack, being killed in front of Nr 58 Boulevard Richard Lenoir, wasn’t a fake. He was shot almost point blank, the weapon wasn’t in automatic mode; that could explain the absence of blood.

    What is extraordinary is that the Kouachis managed to flee Paris at all.

    The police was on the scene even before the Kouachis got back in their car. Upon calmly leaving Charlie Hebdo, they engaged in the “Allée Verte” narrow street where a police car had already arrived. They shot at it about 15 times; the policemen reversed, abandoned the vehicle and run away.

    The Kouachis were so unprepared that at the end of “Allée Verte“, which opens on the very large “Boulevard Richard Lenoir”, made of 4 ways separated by a central green island, they turned left, which is a standard no entry direction. Realizing that they could not re-join the ways heading North because of the green island, they reversed, and apparently had to came back a second time through “Allée Verte” and the crime scene, to this time turn right and finally join the way heading North.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Boulevard+Richard-Lenoir,+75011+Paris,+France/@48.8597733,2.3696251,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47e66dfe906cd575:0xf50b6970f369535f!8m2!3d48.8597698!4d2.3718138

    Now who would do that? A driver who did not drive himself there in the first place.

    Once in the correct direction, in front of Nr 58, they met with officer Merabet, shot him, got out of the car to finish him off before heading North.

    They did not drive far away, crashed their car near Place du Colonel Fabien, left it with their ID inside, confiscated another car from its driver and left Paris.

    Astonishingly, these clumsy drivers fled the busy capital city and drove 41 km without the police having the faintest idea how they left Paris, which route they used, or where they spent the following night. It is like the Paris police had no patrols, no radios, no helicopters, no checkpoints, no traffic cameras, and no traffic lights.

    The only (official) reason why the Kouachis were finally tracked is because after 24 hours, it occurred to them to shop for food and petrol using a bazooka instead of money.

  221. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    ‘America was always meant to be a sort of outpost for North-West European civilisations, we see this with figures like Madison Grant who vehemently opposed the Nordic character of America being destroyed by the waves of migrations from Southern and Eastern Europe during the late 19th century. In any case, America was intended to be a White nation as shown by the first naturalisation law, the Naturalization Act of 1790….’

    Them days — to put it mildly — are dead and gone. You might as well yearn for when Goths dominated the Crimea.

    It’s irrelevant. I go for winning — not for glorious defeat.

    That means as big a tent as possible while still winning the winnable battles.

    You cannot have a ‘Northwest European civilization.’ Forget it.

    If you quit with the ‘I want what I want when I want it’ and go with ‘what can I get that I have to have’ maybe we can stop further immigration and put the black man back in his place.

    I’ll take that and call it a win. If you won’t, you’re not actually helping.

  222. @AnonStarter

    ‘…How do rank falsehoods and distortions hold up as evidence of injury against the original record? We see them by the dozens in this thread alone. Do they really injure anyone but the person who advances them?’

    I’m afraid they do injure the targets.

    Witness the propaganda campaign that’s been assiduously waged against Muslims and Islam since about 1980. Think it’s had no effect?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  223. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    The question we have to ask is whether there is any actual injury inflicted by an expression.

    That is definitely the secular-framework approach to it. As I stated before, I completely agree – a Muslim minority asking for blasphemy laws to be enacted at this point is not the best approach. In Makkah, you have to take your licks – you may not like it, but you have to take them and bear them with patience because you are in opposition to the majority of the populace. That is part of the struggle. Now, if you have done the work, spent the time bringing the majority of the people of a land to Islam, then the parameters are simply different.

    in their proper historical context

    You and I both know that the most authentic source texts make it clear that they were riling up the pagan Arabs against Madinah – very stupid move.

    That’s not really the primary hadith in question here (as far as the Hanafi school is concerned), the more applicable one is this one reported by Lady Aisha (ra):
    “A group of Jews came to Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) and said, ‘As-samu ‘Alaika’ (Death be on you), and I understood it and said to them, ‘Alaikum AsSamu wa-l-la’na (Death and curse be on you).’ Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Be calm! O Aisha, for Allah loves that one should be kind and lenient in all matters.’ I said. ‘O Allah’s Messenger (pbuh)! Haven’t you heard what they have said?’ Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) said, ‘I have (already) said (to them), ‘Alaikum (upon you).’” – reported in Bukhari

    Obviously, the above is a clear indication that the Prophet (pbuh) was insulted to his face (as sovereign of Madinah) and these people committed clear blasphemy and he elected to overlook it.

    The Hanafi school (who are likely the most flexible on this issue) has concluded there is no obligation to punish one that blasphemes or insults the Prophet (pbuh) and it does not necessitate the breaking of the dhimmah contract unless formulated in it. Furthermore, the school states that any punishment that is formulated as a part is left to the sovereign/government and is flexible enough to include whatever is in the community’s best interest – up to and including (though not necessitating) execution. A fine or imprisonment or public flogging could do just as well as a deterrent. Again, in a Muslim-majority land, we are not talking about a situation where a 5% minority population tries to foist blasphemy laws on a society that is destroying its own churches due to lack of funds to care for them:

    Priorities.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  224. Notsofast says:
    @Colin Wright

    Assimilate, resistance is futile. We will all be borg soon.

  225. MrVoid says:

    I’m a free speech absolutist but, at the same time, I have some sympathy for the Muslims. They think its wrong to crap on things that they consider holy and I agree that often when people take swipes at other people’s religons, they do so maliciously. The problem is is that if you make protecting religions a matter of law, anyone can demand that anything be considered holy. Really nasty religious ideas and fantasy persecution narratives will also end up protected by these types of laws. That’s why these types of laws should not exist.

    • Agree: Robjil
  226. Any religion that is so thin skinned that it demands punishment of non-believers is absurdly evil. No matter their excuses… Just like Lysander Spooner said of the Constitution so can be said about Islam or any other violent religion… it is unfit to exist.

  227. @Iris

    Amazing isnt it. You’d imagine they were trying their damndest to get caught but managed to evade everyone.

  228. Notsofast says:
    @RoatanBill

    If you go out during the day and look up in the sky you will see the mighty Ra, the bringer of all life, shining down on good and bad alike. Even your science is starting to awaken, check out luis anchordoqui and eugene chudnovsky. There are more things in heaven and earth, horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  229. @Talha

    That is definitely the secular-framework approach to it.

    And one that happens to be consonant with the Islamic approach to it.

    There is a similar burden of proof: an injury-in-fact has to be established.

    The Hanafi school (who are likely the most flexible on this issue) has concluded there is no obligation to punish one that blasphemes or insults the Prophet (pbuh) and it does not necessitate the breaking of the dhimmah contract unless formulated in it.

    And, as per the hadith you cite, there is no evidence of said formulation in the precedent pf administration established by the Prophet — peace and blessings of God be upon him.

    While true that the manner of administration is left to the discretion of the amir, it’s also true that deviation from the gold standard is a fairly simple matter to determine. When, rather than one who properly disdains leadership and, as such, exemplifies the role of a leader, a majority constituency becomes the amir, such a standard hangs precariously in the balance.

    was-salaam.

  230. @Ron Unz

    Here you go again with that Cholo horsehit… The cholos were I live Unz have more in common with blacks than Buchanan…

    Brown lives matter …. I am sure that AOC is a great cultural leader. Is your IQ 162 or 62?

    • Replies: @anon
  231. Flo Blo says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Its Anglo Americans who are assimilating into Hispanic culture nowadays in the US. Todays Hispanics are not abandoning their language as immigrants of the past did. Perhaps it’s because they are here in larger numbers; there is a constant influx of them as Latin America is a big and contiguous to the US place, or perhaps because travel and communication with Latin America is today easy; for whatever reason Hispanics today are asserting their culture/language in ways that previous non English speaking immigrants did not. Save for the Chinese who when they were our servant class , we allowed them to keep their language and culture. Today when they want to be educated at Harvard ,they are discriminated against. Not so Hispanics who are privileged at least pandered to throughout media and by politicians. The Muslims in the US today do assimilate; wearing a head scarf does not mean you are not assimilated. Rep Omar is in the tradition of left wing western political activism .

  232. @Colin Wright

    Witness the propaganda campaign that’s been assiduously waged against Muslims and Islam since about 1980. Think it’s had no effect?

    I was speaking specifically of the Prophet sallALLAHU ‘alaihi wa sallam, whose person is no more damaged from that propaganda campaign than is that of Jesus ‘alaihis-salaam by what some bimbo comedienne squawks about him.

    The faithful know who they are, and what others may say or write about them that does not reflect that faith, be it respectful or disrespectful, does not reach the faithful, nor does it actually affect Islam in the least. It’s insubstantive.

    Yes, there’s a propaganda campaign against us and our faith. It predates 1980 by over two and one half millennia, originating with renegade Levites who wanted to “keep it in the family.”

    Has it had an effect? Indeed, it has, though how would we go about prosecuting it?

    Estate of Japheth v. Scribes & Pharisees, Inc. has a poetic ring to it. On whom should we serve the subpoena?

    • Agree: Sya Beerens
  233. @R.C.

    Unz has started with divination of supposedly personal motives of interlocutor for his/her positions on anything, instead of dispassionately analyzing the weight of arguments without paying attention to anyone’s imagined personality. In a serious discussion, a personality of an interlocutor does not exist. It could as well been a machine. This, personal-emotional approach is a sure sign of infantile stage of a discussion level.

  234. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @zimriel

    Our Lord

    You mean the (pagan) mangod(s) of Christianity? How did you come about this understanding? Since I assume you weren’t around to witness him, you must have acquired this spiritual garba…, er, I mean understanding, from hearsay accounts, right? Does the idea of an Infinite God as a lowly human make any sense?

    Now, consider another land, and it’s equally batshit crazy spiritualities. There are a billion people in a certain sub-continent who also believe in mangods (in fact, Christianity clearly got inspiration of the Trinity from their Trimurti). Since they too do not have any proof of the divinity of their mangods, or even their existence, those delusions are also purely hearsay, right? Do you believe there is some small chance they too may possess the “truth,” like you believe you do?

    If not, you think your hearsay is the absolute truth, and theirs isn’t? Why? Because your degenerate clergy (pedophilia, child abuse, nun abuse, theology abuse…) have been inherently more righteous and honest over the last 20 centuries?

    If you think so, I laugh at pagan Islamophobic scum like you.

    Sounds like a plan for all civilised countries in fact.

    Lol! Good luck with the likes of Charlie Hebdo amongst your “civilised” cesspools!

    The following verses are for the likes of you… the cursed;

    Indeed, those who disbelieve – it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them – they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment. : Holy Quran 2:6-7

  235. anon[135] • Disclaimer says:
    @Stonewall Jackson

    Who is that genius who helped you count to 62 in 62 minutes ? Don’t lose him .
    No one again out of Cholo will help you again .

    • Replies: @Stonewall Jackson
  236. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @martin_2

    “men aged between say eighteen and forty five who are willing and able to fight on behalf of their community.”

    No. I don’t think muslim men are willing to fight for that (if you mean the “Ummah”), at least in the present age.

    What they are willing, is to fight for their True Monotheism, and the blessed Prophet (saw) who showed them the true path (the only path) to the Almighty One.

  237. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    doesn’t mean they don’t routinely kill/subjugate Christians when the moment arises.

    Certainly not as many as the muslims killed/subjugated by the pagan godless of your kind.

    As always, the hypocrisy of the rabid pagan Islamophobes is breathtaking.

  238. @Iris

    “ He was shot almost point blank, the weapon wasn’t in automatic mode; that could explain the absence of blood.”

    Having witnessed live the effects of an AK47’s bullet go into somebody’s body, I could say with a high degree of assurance that unless it hit a soft part of the body, there is no way it would not result in a splash of blood. If it hit the head as claimed, then I very much doubt the authenticity of the footage.

    The second link did not start. I wonder why.

  239. @Notsofast

    I briefly looked up the two people you mentioned and both are bullshitologists (Cosmology) that believe in black holes, neutron starts, etc. Cosmology went off the rails when it conjured up the Big Bang Theory and has since treated it as though it were fact. These people are chasing unicorns and are not credible.

    “… a theory built on questionable assumptions should never be the basis for new theories.”
    Stephen Smith

  240. @TG

    The average IQ of all Muslim countries combined is 85. That is the same IQ as of American Blacks, and how cognitive successful are they? You need a certain IQ level to be able to understand contradictions or irony. Allah did not endow his followers with a very high IQ. If you read all the blunders in the Qur’an*), you begin to suspect that Allah himself does not have a very high IQ either…

    _________

    *) See : Wikiislam.net, Scientific Errors in the Qur’an.

    • Replies: @Anon
  241. @Kevin Barrett

    Your logic is one of an enlightened and tolerant Muslim. Unfortunately many Muslims would disagree with you. In the history of Islam, the calling got many Arabs to convert to Islam but those who resisted and fought against Muslim armies were spared capital punishment if they pronounced the double testimony: there is no God but God and I witness that Mohamed is the prophet of God. Those Muslims who would disagree with your message of tolerance argue that denying the double testimony is blasphemous and thus warrants the punishment that comes with blasphemy.

    However, the biggest weakness of Islamic law is the attitude towards apostasy where I have witnessed many Islamic scholars debate the issue with some advocating the death penalty for apostates whereas others refuting the contention. I believe that calling for the execution of the apostate exposes Islam as lacking in confidence in herself for if it is assumed by most Muslims that Islam is a religion of enlightenment, then why should any Muslim worry about the loss of a few apostates since most humans have a tendency to move away from darkness towards the light.

    Charlie Hebdo is part of the matrix of control whose main modus opera do is divide and rule. They provoke Muslims to get the hot heads reacting in a way that implicates Muslims as fanatics. Theoretically, it is true that in a secular society one has the right to proclaim any belief irrespective of the sensitivities it might arouse. Wisdom argues that it is best to keep restraint when it comes to matters of religious beliefs and avoid useless provocations.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  242. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rufus Leakin

    There seems to be a disconnect between his post and your outburst at him.

    Those statistics hit a raw nerve in your pagan godless heart, yeah? The irony is that it is your kind who are the miserable losers… of the spiritual kind.

    It must have hurt deep. I am pleased. 😀

  243. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @ChiNoneCom

    And that proof is the existence of intelligent life. You do admit that such a thing exists?

    Now, you prove that intelligent life came out of nothing.

    There is a clear reason why God and the capital-C Creator are used interchangeably.

  244. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @dimples

    rule by ignorant priesthood

    What “rule by…”? My local imam, or some grand mufti in Egypt or SaudiA, is hardly ruling my spiritual life. I say, God is One, and my spiritual life is mostly complete. We certainly don’t need regular IV drips of how 3is1 makes any sense.

    True ignorance is believing a man is “god.”

    women in bags

    Are your nuns guilty of wearing bags also? Do you also hold them in contempt?

    annoying and blaring mosques

    Are the clangs of your pagan temples, pleasing to the ear?

    Only the pagan godless think that the call to pray to the One God of all existence is “annoying.” But sure, I can get onboard the idea of lowering the volume in pagan godless societies.

    millions of idiots prostrating themselves in the direction of

    Better to prostrate before the Almighty One, rather than to materialism, pornography, intoxication, promiscuity, immodesty, psychopathic racial supremacism, etc., of your cesspool of a civilisation.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  245. Svigor says:
    @Ron Unz

    I thought it was already established that “Baron Kaldian” is one of these Curtis Yarvin types; a jevvish or part-jevvish “dark enlightenment” sort whose mission is to do for the dissident right what the neocohens did for the GOP – steer it toward jevvish aims and away from White ones. His message, moniker, and style are certainly consistent with same. Several such cases here at unz.com.

    • Replies: @Lot
  246. @JohnPlywood

    Secularism in the West is dying. Its high point was February 13, 1989. The next day came the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, and I expected massive demonstrations by secularists showing their support for Rushdie. But the only demonstrations consisted of those who wanted him killed. That was a bad sign. It is true that throughout the 90s, there were plenty of statements like yours by our elites, but then came 9/11, and they all were overcome with Islamophilia, and now they don’t talk that way anymore. They have practically made it a crime to speak against Muslims. In Canada, the secular left is allowing the Muslim call to prayer. In Britain, I believe it’s true that one can say anything one likes against Christianity, but you can be jailed for saying something nasty about Muslims.

    I’ve given up expecting secularists to stick up for secularism. The vast majority are pushing the West to accept shari’a.

    • Replies: @Anon
  247. Svigor says:
    @anonymous

    Only the pagan godless think that the call to pray to the One God of all existence is “annoying.” But sure, I can get onboard the idea of lowering the volume in pagan godless societies.

    No, I’m pretty sure anyone can find an Arab warbling on over a loudspeaker from a rooftop five times a day intensely annoying. In fact, I bet many Muslims find it exceeding tiresome.

    I’m not anti-Islam (I don’t want historically Muslim populations in Christendom but my ethnocentrist position is hardly limited to them), but from what little I’ve gathered of the religion so far, this practice is among its most irritating.

  248. @anon

    Sorry, your comment is drivel. Your command of English is rudimentary. Maybe Unz can help you learn English. He loves immigrants and wants you to come and squat here.
    Need welfare? No problemo amigo.. Ron’s got your back!

  249. Anon[123] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Pepple

    Mossad’s execution of 9-11 should have been a wake up call.
    You guys subscribed to the phony WMD and coyote planes dissapearing into the babylonian twin towers whilst your intuition should have kicked in and told you something is not right.
    9-11 should have been the litmus test for truth but you conveniently ignored it. You looked the other way due to cognitive dissonance.
    You followed Bush’s order to go on a spending spree with more credit card debt jacked up with high interest to feed the satanic cabal instead.
    With all these bogus wars on terror and non-ending hoaxes you have unwittingly supported the Zionist Satanic push for one world disorder.
    At this point, all you can do is repent for your sins and start fighting back the criminal enterprize who are in charge of orchestrating all these bogus war on terror, creating these monstrous, diabolical, sinister ISISraHELL with the help of al-CIA-da and MOSSAD.
    Alternate would be to sit back and enjoy bigger fireworks than 9-11 coming near you whilst they prepare greater IzraHELL for the coming of their Yahweh, The Anti-Christ dajjal who will globalize his reign of terror from Jerusalem.
    Either way buckle up for a roller coaster ride with some of these demonic, totally psychopathic, diabolical, sinister, pathological liars and corrupters of mother earth. You reap what you sow.

    There is a lie. Then there is a BIG LIE. Then there is 911. Santa Claus is beyond a LIE. Tel LIE vised 911 EvangeLIED are being taken for a ride by way of Deception to think Jesus Christ died for their Evils. Everyone shall have to account for deeds, either good or evil to enter Paradise or eternal abode in Hell fire.

    The infuriating thing about 9/11 and the multitude of lesser false flags which both preceded and followed it is that, although most Americans know it was as phoney as a three and a half dollar fed reserve note, everyone seems content to put up with the extremely phoney “war on terror” it was designed to create and which has already destroyed a hand full of countries in the world, caused the murder of upwards of two million people, mostly using U.S. military, and turned the U.S. into a ruthlessly insane police state wherein everyone is made to obey patently unlawful statutes in the name of “emergency” while the ruling elite has quit obeying any laws at all while gathering a massive military presence to cow the now restless and resentful public. – See more at:Christopher Bollyn: The Man Who Solved 9/11

  250. A religion that allows a man 5 or more wives cannot be so bad. Imagine you can get all the head you want from a different wife Monday to Friday. Saturday would be a day of getting the chores done and Sunday a day of rest.The bonus is the taxpayer picks up the bill not only for you and your ladies but for all the other relatives you sponsor, provides housing, food stamps, welfare and protection from the white privilege that allowed them to come here. Shit, if they bad mouth you or Allah the long arm of the law will reach out to them. Nothing that a hefty dose of jail time cant fix.

    A religion that provides all that and more is one well worth the conversion !

  251. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nodwink

    Lol!

    The following 2 blessed souls were just like you;

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/24/far-right-german-politician-converts-islam-alternative-fur-deutschland

    Former far-right Dutch politician converts to Islam

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGUjaYXMNe8

    See, He wills what He wills…

    …, Allah guides to His light whom He wills. And Allah presents examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things. : Holy Quran 24:35

    Now, they are humbled.

    You? … only the Almighty knows. Good luck! You are going to need it! 😉

    • Replies: @Nodwink
  252. Anon[123] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    100 Life Instructions from the Quran

    [MORE]

    1. Do not be rude in speech (3:159)
    2. Restrain Anger (3:134)
    3. Be good to others (4:36)
    4. Do not be arrogant (7:13)
    5. Forgive others for their mistakes (7:199)
    6. Speak to people mildly (20:44)
    7. Lower your voice (31:19)
    8. Do not ridicule others (49:11)
    9. Be dutiful to parents(17:23)
    10. Do not say a word of disrespect to parents (17:23)
    11. Do not enter parents’ private room without asking permission (24:58)
    12. Write down the debt (2:282)
    13. Do not follow anyone blindly (2:170)
    14. Grant more time to repay if the debtor is in hard time (2:280)
    15. Don’t consume interest (2:275)
    16. Do not engage in bribery (2:188)
    17. Do not break the promise (2:177)
    18. Keep the trust (2:283)
    19. Do not mix the truth with falsehood (2:42)
    20. Judge with justice between people (4:58)
    21. Stand out firmly for justice (4:135)
    22. Wealth of the dead should be distributed among his family members (4:7)
    23. Women also have the right for inheritance (4:7)
    24. Do not devour the property of orphans (4:10)
    25. Protect orphans (2:220)
    26. Do not consume one another’s wealth unjustly (4:29)
    27. Try for settlement between people (49:9)
    28. Avoid suspicion (49:12)
    29. Do not spy and backbite (2:283)
    30. Do not spy or backbite (49:12)
    31. Spend wealth in charity (57:7)
    32. Encourage feeding poor (107:3)
    33. Help those in need by finding them (2:273)
    34. Do not spend money extravagantly (17:29)
    35. Do not invalidate charity with reminders (2:264)
    36. Honor guests (51:26)
    37. Order righteousness to people only after practicing it yourself(2:44)
    38. Do not commit abuse on the earth (2:60)
    39. Do not prevent people from mosques (2:114)
    40. Fight only with those who fight you (2:190)
    41. Keep the etiquettes of war (2:191)
    42. Do not turn back in battle (8:15)
    43. No compulsion in religion (2:256)
    44. Believe in all prophets (2:285)
    45. Do not have sexual intercourse during menstrual period (2:222)
    46. Breast feed your children for two complete years (2:233)
    47. Do not even approach unlawful sexual intercourse (17:32)
    48. Choose rulers by their merit (2:247)
    49. Do not burden a person beyond his scope (2:286)
    50. Do not become divided (3:103)
    51. Think deeply about the wonders and creation of this universe (3:191)
    52. Men and Women have equal rewards for their deeds (3:195)
    53. Do not marry those in your blood relation (4:23)
    54. Family should be led by men (4:34)
    55. Do not be miserly (4:37)
    56.Do not keep envy (4:54)
    57. Do not kill each other (4:92)
    58. Do not be an advocate for deceit (4:105)
    59. Do not cooperate in sin and aggression (5:2)
    60. Cooperate in righteousness (5:2)
    61. ’Having majority’ is not a criterion of truth (6:116)
    62. Be just (5:8)
    63. Punish for crimes in an exemplary way (5:38)
    64. Strive against sinful and unlawful acts (5:63)
    65. Dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine are prohibited (5:3)
    66. Avoid intoxicants and alcohol (5:90)
    67. Do not gamble (5:90)
    68. Do not insult others’ deities (6:108)
    69. Don’t reduce weight or measure to cheat people (6:152)
    70. Eat and Drink, But Be Not Excessive (7:31)
    71. Wear good cloths during prayer times (7:31)
    72. protect and help those who seek protection (9:6)
    73. Keep Purity (9:108)
    74. Never give up hope of Allah’s Mercy (12:87)
    75. Allah will forgive those who have done wrong out of ignorance (16:119)
    76. Invitation to God should be with wisdom and good instruction (16:125)
    77. No one will bear others’ sins (17:15)
    78. Do not kill your children for fear of poverty (17:31)
    79. Do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge (17:36)
    80. Keep aloof from what is vain (23:3)
    81. Do not enter others’ houses without seeking permission (24:27)
    82. Allah will provide security for those who believe only in Allah (24:55)
    83. Walk on earth in humility (25:63)
    84. Do not neglect your portion of this world (28:77)
    85. Invoke not any other god along with Allah (28:88)
    86. Do not engage in homosexuality (29:29)
    87. Enjoin right, forbid wrong (31:17)
    88. Do not walk in insolence through the earth (31:18)
    89. Women should not display their finery (33:33)
    90. Allah forgives all sins (39:53)
    91. Do not despair of the mercy of Allah (39:53)
    92. Repel evil by good (41:34)
    93. Decide on affairs by consultation (42:38)
    94. Most noble of you is the most righteous (49:13)
    95. No Monasticism in religion (57:27)
    96. Those who have knowledge will be given a higher degree by Allah (58:11)
    97. Treat non-Muslims in a kind and fair manner (60:8)
    98. Save yourself from covetousness (64:16)
    99. Seek forgiveness of Allah. He is Forgiving and Merciful (73:20)
    100. Do not repel the petitioner/beggar (93:10)
    https://www.clearquran.com

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  253. syonredux says:
    @Ron Unz

    quite possibly far worse than that of the Japanese,

    Dunno, Ron. The Japanese set an awfully high bar. Try reading up sometime on their conduct in China from ’37 t0 ’45…….

    Moreover, that scale of atrocities, particularly against the Germans, actually continued after the end of the war, including starving to death huge numbers of surrendered POWs.

    Dear God, Ron, are you still pushing James Bacque’s rubbish?

    even before the obviously illegal atomic bombings of two large cities.

    I hope that this doesn’t mean that you are OK with destroying cities (Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, etc) with conventional explosives….

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  254. syonredux says:
    @Talha

    Freeman Dyson had some interesting observations on the British Terror Bombing campaign in WW2:

    [MORE]

    For a week after I arrived at the ORS, the attacks on Hamburg continued. The second, on July 27, raised a firestorm that devastated the central part of the city and killed about 40,000 people. We succeeded in raising firestorms only twice, once in Hamburg and once more in Dresden in 1945, where between 25,000 and 60,000 people perished (the numbers are still debated). The Germans had good air raid shelters and warning systems and did what they were told. As a result, only a few thousand people were killed in a typical major attack. But when there was a firestorm, people were asphyxiated or roasted inside their shelters, and the number killed was more than 10 times greater. Every time Bomber Command attacked a city, we were trying to raise a firestorm, but we never learnt why we so seldom succeeded. Probably a firestorm could happen only when three things occurred together: first, a high concentration of old buildings at the target site; second, an attack with a high density of incendiary bombs in the target’s central area; and, third, an atmospheric instability. When the combination of these three things was just right, the flames and the winds produced a blazing hurricane.

    While the attacks on oil plants were helping to win the War, Sir Arthur continued to order major attacks on cities, including the attack on Dresden on the night of February 13, 1945. The Dresden attack became famous because it caused a firestorm and killed a large number of civilians, many of them refugees fleeing from the Russian armies that were overrunning Pomerania and Silesia. It caused some people in Britain to question the morality of continuing the wholesale slaughter of civilian populations when the War was almost over. Some of us were sickened by Sir Arthur’s unrelenting ferocity. But our feelings of revulsion after the Dresden attack were not widely shared. The British public at that time still had bitter memories of World War I, when German armies brought untold misery and destruction to other people’s countries, but German civilians never suffered the horrors of war in their own homes. The British mostly supported Sir Arthur’s ruthless bombing of cities, not because they believed that it was militarily necessary, but because they felt it was teaching German civilians a good lesson. This time, the German civilians were finally feeling the pain of war on their own skins.

    I remember arguing about the morality of city bombing with the wife of a senior air force officer, after we heard the results of the Dresden attack. She was a well-educated and intelligent woman who worked part-time for the ORS. I asked her whether she really believed that it was right to kill German women and babies in large numbers at that late stage of the War. She answered, “Oh yes. It is good to kill the babies especially. I am not thinking of this war but of the next one, 20 years from now. The next time the Germans start a war and we have to fight them, those babies will be the soldiers.” After fighting Germans for ten years, four in the first war and six in the second, we had become almost as bloody-minded as Sir Arthur.

    https://www.isegoria.net/2009/05/firestorms/

    • Thanks: Talha
    • Replies: @Svigor
  255. VICB3 says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Also to be noted was that many of the ‘Einsatzgruppen’ were not in fact German, but rather NKVD in German/Waffen SS uniforms.

    As per Stalin’s Order #0428, the ‘Torch-Men-Order’, the NKVD was authorized to don German uniforms, preferably Waffen SS uniforms, and then “to destroy all settlements within a swathe of about 40 – 60 km depth from the main battle lines and to ruthlessly kill the civilian population.” Standard procedure was to leave one or two of the population alive to tell the tale, thus creating the legend of German atrocities

    You can read more about it here:

    https://historicaltribune.wordpress.com/2016/09/21/stalins-order-0428-a-picture-is-worth-a-thousand-words-is-it-really/

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=5804

    More here, including some of Stalin’s other special orders:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=talin%E2%80%99s+Order+%230428+%E2%80%93+a+picture+is+worth+a+thousand+words%E2%80%A6+is+it+really%3F&t=h_&ia=web

    Of note is that a good many of the ‘Germans’ in the photos don’t ‘look’ like Germans, i.e. too Slavic. Also pointed out, and of great interest, is that in one photo the ‘German’ is using a Russian Tokarev 7.62×25 , and not either a standard issue Walther or Luger 9mm parabellum. In other words, not bloody likely to happen unless the user was Russian/NKVD.

    War is a nasty business, and in it nobody’s hands are ever completely clean. But a good many/most of the German atrocity stories you read about are simply that, stories to be considered with a good deal of skepticism.

    Hope this help!

    Just a thought.

    VicB3

    • Thanks: Curmudgeon
  256. @Talha

    Again, this makes an a priori assumption that a political act and religious act are mutually exclusive. Which is a distinction Islam simply refuses to concede from the outset and which is why liberalism has the rest of the religions against the ropes – they let them define the terms and parameters,

    Oddly, this makes my point about Islam being a political system. Muslims insisting on Sharia law being applied in non-Muslim countries is a political statement. As with any religion, the assumption that the word of God/Allah/YHWH/Shiva/Gi’itchi Manitou etc. is the only truth is what creates the problem in today’s world, and always has.
    I fully concede that liberalism, at least liberalism in its form of the last 60 – 70 years, has decimated many religions. However, whether Islam in the West, or Christianity in China, insistence that the majority change for the minority, will always be problematic. Short of psychopaths, who exist everywhere and in more numbers than people would care to admit, societies generally function well on the “golden rule” – do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
    Do as you wish in private matters between individuals of the same religion, just demand that I have to conform to your rules in public matters.

    • Replies: @Sya Beerens
  257. @anon

    Actually, I was wrong. It was the Mayans, not Aztecs. In any event whether Mesopotania, which may be Arab now, but who know what it was in antiquity, zero was introduced to themselves first. Any theory or invention is always introduced to the local population first.

    I doubt the Romans did this. If I remember, they used these things for recording not for actual calculating.

    The concept of a number needs to be visualized, whether it is recorded or not. If you have a known number of something, you visualize that in the script in which you normally know, whether it is written or not.

    Did you first use Arabic numerals then convert to Roman?

    While in school, we did learn what the numerals were, and simple calculations in Roman numerals, it was always from the perspective of translation. Unless people are fully bilingual, there is a always some sort of translation in your thought processes in another language. I am not bilingual in Latin, but do know Latin languages have many words derived from centum – 100 or C. Mille (M) is 1000. No clue why I=1, V=5, X=10, L=50, or D=500. I did recognize immediately that 123 was CXXIII, and 14 was XIV. Multiplying by ten (X) will change the C to M, X to C, etc. However, a Chinese would likely translate the Arabic numbers to Chinese to calculate, then translate back to Arabic.

    It has been known for over 50 years that mathematics and language are processed in the same part of the brain, irrespective of the characters or language. Like language, mathematics has patterns.

  258. Svigor says:
    @syonredux

    The British public at that time still had bitter memories of World War I, when German armies brought untold misery and destruction to other people’s countries, but German civilians never suffered the horrors of war in their own homes.

    So, the British public had bitter memories of suffering in WWI pretty much what the German public suffered, and that, in their minds, justified the German public suffering horrors in WWII that the British public neither suffered, nor could even imagine.

    Gotcha.

    This is your brain on judenpresse, goy.

    The British mostly supported Sir Arthur’s ruthless bombing of cities, not because they believed that it was militarily necessary, but because they felt it was teaching German civilians a good lesson.

    Never get high on the jevvish supply…

    I asked her whether she really believed that it was right to kill German women and babies in large numbers at that late stage of the War. She answered, “Oh yes. It is good to kill the babies especially. I am not thinking of this war but of the next one, 20 years from now. The next time the Germans start a war and we have to fight them, those babies will be the soldiers.” After fighting Germans for ten years, four in the first war and six in the second, we had become almost as bloody-minded as Sir Arthur.

    God forbid the Brits take a look at their own leadership, or just stop fighting wars in jevvish/oligarch interests. I don’t think I’ll ever buy their (and yankee-judeans’) cope on this; Germany was effectively never going to be able to mount a naval invasion of Britain, but this specter is how Brits (and many American Anglophiles) delude themselves into buying the (((globalists’))) rationalizations for why Britain always had to “voluntarily” involve itself in continental wars. It’s almost sad, how the cancer of civilizational ennui affords no White nation an advantage; Germany is psychologically prostrate, but if she were to try to conquer Europe militarily today, nobody this side of eastern Europe would be able to mobilize a population to fight against her (and the reverse is just as true).

  259. Ron Unz says:
    @syonredux

    Dear God, Ron, are you still pushing James Bacque’s rubbish?

    Well, you’re supposedly an agitated rightwing English-lit instructor, who regularly rants about Muslims and Mexicans, but otherwise seems to draw all knowledge of the world from Wikipedia, which you endlessly quote. Maybe you are and maybe you aren’t.

    You’re one of the two or three most prolific commenters on this website, with your archive containing nearly 15,000 comments totaling over 2 million words, so you clearly have lots of time on your hands. Just out of curiosity, I did a search on “Bacque” and in two million words of comments, you’d never previously mentioned him. Hmmm…

    Bacque’s books were published over thirty years ago, and despite heavy governmental efforts to suppress them, became international bestsellers. I read them along with the leading rebuttals by establishmentarian historians, and I thought Bacque made a pretty strong case. Indeed, his critics were forced to admit that all the official American statistics accepted by everyone for decades had been totally fraudulent.

    Here’s a question. Have you actually read Bacque’s books or is all your knowledge of his “rubbish” straight from the Wikipedia pages that you so greatly honor and admire?…

  260. @Joe Levantine

    This is a rather thoughtful reply. Though it’s not addressed directly to me, I hope you don’t mind my addressing it.

    Your logic is one of an enlightened and tolerant Muslim. Unfortunately many Muslims would disagree with you. In the history of Islam, the calling got many Arabs to convert to Islam but those who resisted and fought against Muslim armies were spared capital punishment if they pronounced the double testimony: there is no God but God and I witness that Mohamed is the prophet of God.

    Well, no, they were still given the option of retaining their faith with the provision that they pay the jizyah, which, contrary to many claims here, was not prescribed in excess of the Muslims’ zakat. In exchange for this payment, their lives and property received protection and they were exempt from military service.

    However, the biggest weakness of Islamic law is the attitude towards apostasy where I have witnessed many Islamic scholars debate the issue with some advocating the death penalty for apostates whereas others refuting the contention. I believe that calling for the execution of the apostate exposes Islam as lacking in confidence in herself for if it is assumed by most Muslims that Islam is a religion of enlightenment, then why should any Muslim worry about the loss of a few apostates since most humans have a tendency to move away from darkness towards the light.

    I’ve addressed this very same issue many times and find myself in complete agreement with what you say.

    Capital punishment was never carried out for the “offense” of simple apostasy in the lifetime of the Prophet. There is a saying attributed to the Prophet which originally reads “One who changes the religion, kill him,” The imperative was intended for the Prophet’s companions, who, upon succeeding the Prophet as political administrators, would encounter renegades raising a false flag of Islam, vying for ultimate representation of the religion. At such an early stage, allowing those renegades to prevail would have been fatal to the religion itself.

    When Islam later became an instrument of imperial dominion, the definite article of that hadith was substituted for the possessive pronoun “his,” rendering simple apostasy a capital offense. My favorite teacher referred to this ruling as a “hypocrite-maker.”

    Charlie Hebdo is part of the matrix of control whose main modus opera do is divide and rule. They provoke Muslims to get the hot heads reacting in a way that implicates Muslims as fanatics. Theoretically, it is true that in a secular society one has the right to proclaim any belief irrespective of the sensitivities it might arouse. Wisdom argues that it is best to keep restraint when it comes to matters of religious beliefs and avoid useless provocations.

    Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  261. @Curmudgeon

    In a secular society, whether you like it or not, religion defines self, not nation or country.

    We have to define these terms clearly from the onset. When we speak of “nation,” the word also connotes a diaspora, a people bound not by geopolitical boundaries, but by ethnic and/or religious ones. As such, in a secular society such as America, there are nations defined by a common religion. Call them communities, associations, churches, temples, societies, or whatever you’d like. Pragmatically, they’re akin to nations.

    America has made a contract with any living under its aegis. That contract states that its government is not allowed to prohibit the free exercise of anyone’s religion. Of course, this has eroded significantly with time, but America still retains this distinction among many other countries. Religious folk, whether individually or as a collective, are entirely free to avail of the contract to practice their religion and/or influence law with respect to their religious convictions as they are able to do (e.g. blue laws).

    Federalism was supposed to allow for the relative autonomy of states, which could just as easily be distinguished by religious difference. It wasn’t intended to shoulder the states with an anti-religious ultimatum.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  262. Lot says:
    @Svigor

    “ steer it toward jevvish aims”

    You flatter yourself that anyone gives two craps to “steer” you anywhere. Marginal people, no money, rarely if ever vote, no influence, barred from all polite society. Toxic to even associate with you.

    Your main impact on anything is you get trotted out by the MSM for a freak show in order to smear quality people like Trump Bannon and Miller.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  263. Socrates says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Wasting your time Kevin, talking to an atheist.
    It is exactly the same when talking to a commie.

  264. @Seraphim

    I seem to get a lot of English lovers correcting my spellling on this website. Usually, I will search for the etymology of whatever word they corrected my spelling for, and discover that my “misspelling” was closer to the original (usually Greek or Latin) word.

    The English term empirical derives from the Ancient Greek word ἐμπειρία, empeiria, which is cognate with and translates to the Latin experientia, from which the words experience and experiment are derived.

    And indeed, the original Middle English spelling was emperiqe, back when the English were at least logically trying to imitate their civilizational betters:

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empiric#etymology%7CMirriam

    History and Etymology for empiric

    Middle English emperiqe “physician in ancient Greece and Rome who held that treatment should be based on observation rather than theory,” borrowed from Latin empīricus, empēricus, borrowed from Greek empeirikós, derivative of empeirikós, adjective, “based on observation (of medical treatment), experienced,” from empeiría “experience, practice” (derivative of émpeiros “experienced, practiced,” from em- EN- entry 2 + -peiros, derivative of peîra “attempt, trial, test”) + -ikos -IC entry 1; peîra going back to *per-i̯a, derivative of a verbal base *per- perhaps going back to Indo-European *per- “cross, pass” — more at FARE entry 1

    I rest my case. The modern English and French languages are an attempt to imitate civilization by a people who can logically have few or none of the genetic mutations responsible for building and maintaining a civilization, as their ancestors spent most of their existences living as remote nonliterate savages. The English language, and also French, used to be somewhat closer to a logical interpretation of history, but at some point something went horribly wrong (probably even more incest than was already the norm) and we arrived at such disgusting and illogical spellings as “empirical”.

    So yeah you’ve got the lexicon memorized but what you don’t understand is that it is garbage and much of what you believe has no historical grouding or basis in logic. Whereas people like me speak a pure language just by having a mind that is better adjusted to reality.

  265. Nodwink says:
    @anonymous

    All that shows is the similarity between Islam and garden-variety Fascism. Hitler loved Mohammed.

  266. Anonymous[350] • Disclaimer says:

    Try staging a production of the ‘Black and White Minstrel Show’ – which, as recently as the 1960s, held the record for the biggest box office take in the history of the British theatre – at a leading West End theatre, and then you will know, for sure, all about blasphemy laws.

    The upshot is that it’s all about who holds the power.

    The British Head of State – Her Majesty, the Queen – can be mocked, insulted, ridiculed, calumniated, libelled etc in the most vile, disgusting, filthy ways possible by any shit cunt of a two bit lefty ‘comedian’ with complete immunity, but dare to ‘put on blackface’ and sing ‘Camptown Races’ – you might as well just kill yourself first.

  267. @AnonStarter

    Thank you for this serious reply.

    “ Well, no, they were still given the option of retaining their faith with the provision that they pay the jizyah, which, contrary to many claims here, was not prescribed in excess of the Muslims’ zakat. In exchange for this payment, their lives and property received protection and they were exempt from military service.”

    I don’t know if the principle of Jizyah was applied to the Christians of Arabia who were mostly Nestorian and at odds with other Christians of the trinity creed. Jizyah was surely applied in the Levant with the Christians and the Jews who both had, as per Koranic verses, a special status as People of the Book. Jizyah was not applied to the Zarathustrian Persians, where mass executions of the defeated Persian Army were performed by the conquering Muslim armies to put Persia in a state of shock and awe; here I do not attempt to pin bloody behavior on Muslims only as I can say with the same certainty that some of the Christian armies during the Crusades were no less brutal. Though it is an accepted historic fact that the tribe of Tughlub who were Christians before the Islamic calling and one of the biggest Arab tribes, converted to Islam in Arabia not by conviction in as much as by seeking self preservation only to revert back to their old creed soon after the death of the prophet. The punishment was swift and Omar Bin Al Aass sent his troops to wreak havoc upon them. Here I do not pin such behavior on Islam as a religion but rather on political Islam which was by and large commandeered by people from a staunchly tribal and sometimes nomadic background.

    And your mentioning of the Hadith goes to the heart of the matter as a source of Islamic confusion for this book included so many texts attributed falsely to the prophet when they were the personal views of the writer who was commissioned by the rulers to add whatever would be in the latter’s interests.

    Overall, how French Muslims act in what is becoming a multicultural, secular republic will define the legacy of Islam as a religion that can seamlessly coexist with other religions and cultures on the European stage.

  268. chris says:
    @Talha

    What I find incredible is that any normal, grown person should find any of these cartoons even mildly amusing. The customers of this garbage is a stunted deformed mental dwarf stuck in some derranged, pre-pubescent, sociopathic pathology. And I mean that, completely sepparately from all the blasphemy aspects, the pictures are even meant to invoke.

    The cartoons are as disturbing as if the creepiest and stupidest dweeb in 6th grade would get back at a teacher who correctly admonished him for being creepy by drawing a groteske and desturbing picture of her. This is the work of a frustrated and desturbed psychopath.

    I of course don’t mean to imply that the people running these operations are not agets trying to provoke these communities.

  269. Jizyah was not applied to the Zarathustrian Persians, where mass executions of the defeated Persian Army were performed by the conquering Muslim armies to put Persia in a state of shock and awe … Though it is an accepted historic fact that the tribe of Tughlub who were Christians before the Islamic calling and one of the biggest Arab tribes, converted to Islam in Arabia not by conviction in as much as by seeking self preservation only to revert back to their old creed soon after the death of the prophet. The punishment was swift and Omar Bin Al Aass sent his troops to wreak havoc upon them.

    Would you mind sharing your source material for these claims?

    First of all, unless the Persians tenaciously refused to subordinate themselves to Islamic administration, whether as Zoroastrians subject to jizyah or Muslims subject to zakat, they wouldn’t have been put to the sword.

    Second, I find nothing in our primary source material to corroborate the “accepted historic fact” you cite. There’s no evidence the Banu Taghlib converted to Islam during the lifetime of the Prophet. There is, however, evidence that they fought on the side of renegades during the Ridda Wars and later shifted allegiance to the Muslims while remaining Christian — an allegiance that exempted them from the jizyah.

    (At the risk of being pedantic, it’s ‘Amr ibn al-‘As.)

    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  270. Anon[123] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Wikiislam ? LOL. You will loose all your credibility if you do not research your facts right.

    [MORE]

    ISLAM AGAINST TERRORISM •
    1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”
    2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.
    3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says, “But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,” 2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.”
    4. In the Islamic law of war, not just any civil engineer can declare or launch a war. It is the prerogative of the duly constituted leader of the Muslim community that engages in the war. Nowadays that would be the president or prime minister of the state, as advised by the mufti or national jurisconsult.
    5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)
    6. Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34). Prominent [pdf] Muslim legal scholar Sherman Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d. 464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking money, killing people or violating what God has made it unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”
    7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.
    8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those who harm you and is said to have commanded, “Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)
    9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]
    10. The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims. I wrote elsewhere, “Dangerous falsehoods are being promulgated to the American public. The Quran does not preach violence against Christians.
    Quran 5:69 says (Arberry): “Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness–their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.”
    In other words, the Quran promises Christians and Jews along with Muslims that if they have faith and works, they need have no fear in the afterlife. It is not saying that non-Muslims go to hell– quite the opposite.
    When speaking of the 7th-century situation in the Muslim city-state of Medina, which was at war with pagan Mecca, the Quran notes that the polytheists and some Arabian Jewish tribes were opposed to Islam, but then goes on to say:
    5:82. ” . . . and you will find the nearest in love to the believers [Muslims] those who say: ‘We are Christians.’ That is because amongst them are priests and monks, and they are not proud.”
    So the Quran not only does not urge Muslims to commit violence against Christians, it calls them “nearest in love” to the Muslims! The reason given is their piety, their ability to produce holy persons dedicated to God, and their lack of overweening pride.
    (For a modernist, liberal interpretation, see this pdf file, “Jihad and the Islamic Law of War.”

  271. @Trinity

    Amen brother. I too see no need to insult each other’s religious traditions gratuitously (as you mentioned, the chosenites are in their own category so far as this goes, but hey jews are gonna jew), so let’s separate (which means muslims get sent back to their various countries of origin), so that there’s less chance of friction.

  272. @AnonStarter

    There is no doubt that the Americas are a different situation. Nation has its origins in French and Latin. https://www.etymonline.com/word/nation
    Because there were different races (German, French, Scots, Irish etc were considered races as well) arriving to create the new countries, nation evolved into a group of people living in a geographic area that have a shared experience. The shared experience did not have, necessarily the same effect on all. In that sense, the US has been a nation for some time. It is only recently, relatively speaking, that the differences in the effects of the shared experience have been emphasized. Until this trend is stopped, things will get worse, not better. My problem with words like community is that they no longer refer to a geographic location, but an ethnic population. That is the poison of multiculturalism. It erases the nation.

    A very simple example of different effects of the same experience is the World Series or Super Bowl. Huge numbers of people engage, but the outcome of those games is felt differently depending on the level of engagement and loyalties, and more importantly, there are no riots.

  273. Svigor says:
    @Lot

    Nice alternate reality you have there. In the real world, WNs are the regime’s bogeyman. It’s pretty clear we’re the only thing the regime actually fears. We stalk their nightmares. You? Don’t make me laugh; you’re working for them, kosher controlled oppo, running around polishing the brass on the Titanic. Everything they do and say is designed to prevent us. To the point that they’re making the classic, ham-handed blunder of destroying free speech for everyone because us. You think they give a shit about you or your kosher conservatism or the GOP or libertardianism, etc? If you do you’re delusional.

    Actually, I take that back – it isn’t a blunder. I think they’ve correctly calculated that it’s the better of two bad choices. They couldn’t just ignore us and hope for the best anymore.

    “Quality people like Trump Bannon and Miller”

    Hilarious.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  274. @AnonStarter

    Source for the massacres of Persian army : Dr. Ashraf Ezzat author of the book : Egypt Knew no Pharaos nor Israelites. This was an independent article on his site where he describes an incident that took place in Asfahan.

    Source of the Bani Tughlub treatment as apostates: Father Zakaria Boutros, an Egyptian Coptic cleric and erudite in Islamic history though known for his anti Islamic pronouncements. Yet for the sake of objectivity, I should mention that he always referenced his statements to books written by Muslim writers.

    Please note that my previous comment was not made with any hostile intention towards Islam but rather to shed light on the excesses that are usually perpetrated by political leaders in the name of religion. That said, I state my position against forced secularisation such as what has taken hold of European society in the nineteenth and early twentieth century.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  275. Svigor says:
    @Svigor

    Not to mention that your argument is self-refuting; Yarvin manifestly has tried to steer the “dark enlightenment” toward jevvish interests, e.g., by downplaying jevvish power, calling the regime “the Cathedral” when “the Synagogue” is obviously more apropos, blathering on about “Calvinists” and other such nonsense, time-sink spergery like Monarchism, etc.

    People like you and Jack D and others manifestly do spend substantial amounts of time here protecting jevvish interests.

    So jevvs obviously do think the dissident right worth infiltrating and subverting.

    • Replies: @Lot
  276. @Joe Levantine

    Source for the massacres of Persian army : Dr. Ashraf Ezzat author of the book : Egypt Knew no Pharaos nor Israelites. This was an independent article on his site where he describes an incident that took place in Asfahan.

    Ezzat, for what it’s worth, harbors deep animus against religion in general, and Islam is certainly no exception. The fact that he references the notoriously polemic wikiislam tells me quite a bit. That said, I’m not averse to accepting any account as authentic regardless of the referencing party. It’s important, however, to separate the details of the account from the polemic that accompanies it.

    Re: The conquest of Isfahan. The claim is that Persians who fought the Muslims there were put to the sword without being offered the standard terms of capitulation.

    There’s simply no information to support this claim. The Persians who did battle with Muslims were uniformly aware of those terms well before engaging them. Any killing of them would have been as a result of their unequivocal rejection of those terms even after defeat, and there were Persians who considered this an honorable death.

    Source of the Bani Tughlub treatment as apostates: Father Zakaria Boutros, an Egyptian Coptic cleric and erudite in Islamic history though known for his anti Islamic pronouncements. Yet for the sake of objectivity, I should mention that he always referenced his statements to books written by Muslim writers.

    Unfortunately for Boutrous, there’s nothing in our primary source material to support his claim. Neither did the Bani Taghlib convert to Islam during the lifetime of the Prophet, nor were they compelled to change their religion when fighting alongside Muslims.

    Please note that my previous comment was not made with any hostile intention towards Islam but rather to shed light on the excesses that are usually perpetrated by political leaders in the name of religion.

    Of course, and my own question was likewise intended in good spirit. I’m inclined to give well mannered people the benefit of the doubt.

    That said, I state my position against forced secularisation such as what has taken hold of European society in the nineteenth and early twentieth century.

    Thank you for so doing. Take care.

    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  277. @AnonStarter

    Thank you for your balanced reply.

    It has been more than fifty years that I engaged myself in the history of the Islamic conquest and I can humbly say that my memory is sketchy at best.

    I appreciate your take on my references for I took the habit to always seek to see the other side of the coin. History is an endless debate and one can never stop learning.

    I look forward to further correspondence with you on matters of common interest.

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
  278. 66% of Muslims believe it is right to prosecute Charlie Hebdo for publishing such cartoons, as against only 21% for the general population.

    Did anyone read this article? There is twice the same figure with “Question 2”. So that the 66% figure is not supported.

    Too bad.

    • Replies: @Iris
  279. Iris says:
    @Olivier1973

    Hi Olivier ; well-spotted.

    Did you happen to follow up the on-going Charlie Hebdo trial, with a rag-tag of petty criminals and social destitute in the dock, who all seem to have no real clue about the core event?

    It appears that the Kouachi brothers had done no reconnaissance of the future crime scene: they first went to a wrong building, and then once inside the correct one, were initially led to the wrong floor by the terrorised cartoonist Coco, who finally let them in by opening the door access code.

    Charlie was a weekly magazine, holding one weekly editorial meeting, and had been under strict secretive protection measures for years. Considering this, you’d think it was extremely suspicious that the clueless Kouachis managed to hurtle into the editorial room just at the precise time of the week so many prestigious individuals were gathered.

    One would think the inquiry would be keen on finding out who or how this timing information was obtained. But apparently, no, I couldn’t find any mention of the subject in any article. Did you? Best.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  280. Anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    Diversity means different.

  281. Lot says:
    @Svigor

    Unz megaposting isn’t “protecting Jewish interests” nor is yours fighting it. You also greatly overestimate how much I care. I have a great deal of pride in my partial AJ ancestry to be sure, per capita no people are as intelligent or accomplished.

    But it isn’t likely I’ll reproduce with a Jewess, and my nephews, cousins, and cousins’ children are overwhelmingly non-AJ white by blood. To the extent I’m motivated by spreading my tribe’s blood, it is mostly and increasingly Anglo-germanic midwestern, with an increasingly dilute kiss of the ancient Levant.

  282. @Kevin Barrett

    You should read the Qur’an more carefully.

    Did you do it? I have a doubt, a serious doubt. Here is what you are calling “truth and justice and compassion”.

    4:56. Those who reject Our revelations—We will scorch them in a Fire. Every time their skins are cooked, We will replace them with other skins, so they will experience the suffering. God is Most Powerful, Most Wise.

    Many examples of assassinations, mass killings, rapes, plunders, etc.

    Yeah, great example of “truth and justice and compassion”.

  283. @Iris

    Nor did I.

    If they wanted to know anything, they would have taken the terrorists alive (same with Merrah). Obviously better dead than alive. No question asked.

    Another question: why did this coco open the door? If she would not have been late… and a coward…

    • Replies: @Iris
  284. @Olivier1973

    4:56. Those who reject Our revelations

    The term in Arabic — kafaru — should be translated as “Those who deny,” not “Those who reject.”

    The difference is not slight, as the term denotes a rejection of God’s Signs in consciousness of their truth. It’s the difference between one rejecting the existence of something because he hasn’t seen proof of it and his rejecting its existence while the proof is evident to him — the latter is kufr.

    The verse describes their fate after death, not before. It’s not a prescription for meting out worldly punishment.

    Many examples of assassinations, mass killings, rapes, plunders, etc.

    Rapes? Not hardly.

    Assassinations? Very few in the early years, yet strategically brilliant given the circumstances.

    Mass killings? That’s what a stubborn enemy gets when he starts a fight he can’t win.

    Plunders? That’s how a sore loser understands “To the victor go the spoils.” And where Muslims arranged a treaty of protection, they didn’t touch private property.

  285. @Olivier1973

    The Qur’an informs us that its descriptions of Paradise (and by extension Hellfire) are metaphorical (mathal).

    A better translation would be “Those who ungratefully cover up the truth of our signs (ayat).” That is, those who are ungrateful to the Source of All Being, and in bad faith cover up the truth of existence (that it consists of signs/miracles pointing back to the Creator) will suffer horribly, especially when they die and consciousness steps out of the physical body and material spacetime into eternity.

    This is not all that different from what the Tibetan Book of the Dead says happens if you die without conquering your nafs (desiring ego).

    Of course, all of this boils down to “be good or you will suffer terrible consequences for your bad acts,” which is a perfectly fine message to guide the lives of simple folk.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  286. @Kevin Barrett

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum!

    The Qur’an informs us that its descriptions of Paradise (and by extension Hellfire) are metaphorical (mathal).

    Brother Kevin, to which ayat do you refer?

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  287. @Talha

    The answer is NO…..in my case and I’m Arabisch…..

  288. @Curmudgeon

    you’re confusing propaganda with reality….Sharia is a war propaganda concept just like burka 72 virgins and Jihajoe…

  289. @Talha

    I couldn’t agree more! Being a product of post colonial cheap labor migration myself.

  290. Iris says:
    @Olivier1973

    If they wanted to know anything, they would have taken the terrorists alive (same with Merrah). Obviously better dead than alive. No question asked.

    Indeed. It would have been dead easy to incapacitate Merah with sleeping gases, trapped as he was in his tiny ground floor flat, and catch him alive.
    But he would have spilled the beans about how he’d been working as an informer for French intelligence services, who in agreement with the Israelis, sent him on a trip to Israel to impress the Islamist organisations he was poised to infiltrate.

    http://www.slate.fr/story/52297/mohamed-merah-informateur

    But the best part of the Merah execution is that after the Toulouse killing, while he was locked in his tiny flat and surrounded by 80+ police officers posted in secret surveillance, he managed to escape totally unnoticed from the only other door at the back of the building, phoned a girlfriend from a telephone booth to ask whether he could crash at her place, then came back through the same back door and into his flat without anybody noticing.

    I am not joking, by the way. This comedy-club-like sequence of events really happened before the “number one public enemy” got conveniently shot and silenced.

    Another question: why did this coco open the door? If she would not have been late… and a coward…

    This is a smart question. Cartoonist Coco (real name Corinne Rey and mother to a young child at the time) draws sympathy because she composed the access code and let the Kouachis in under the threat of being herself shot.

    She had just left the editorial meeting which was lingering and turning nasty, had gone down the stairs to have a cigarette and met the Kouachis just as they had entered the building and shot maintenance technician Frédéric Boisseau who knew nothing about Charlie’s offices.

    So Coco’s appearance was extremely timely, synchronized to favor a maximum impact, because the Kouachis would have otherwise wasted a lot of time finding Charlie’s offices. The noise they were making in the process would have raised the alarm and alerted the victims, including policeman Franck Brinsolaro, the editor’s bodyguard, who was certainly armed.

    https://www.la-croix.com/France/Charlie-Hebdo-temoignage-bouleversant-Coco-2020-09-09-1201113019

  291. @AnonStarter

    13:35: (Here is) the metaphor (mathal) of the Paradise the righteous are promised: Beneath it rivers flow. Its fruit is lasting, and its shade…

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  292. @Kevin Barrett

    While Hans-Wehr does include “metaphor” under the entry for mathal, Ibn Kathir renders the term as “description,” and the preponderant view is that both the Garden and the Fire as presented in The Qur’an are not merely figurative descriptions.

    An example of the Garden that is promised to the cautious: The rivers flow beneath it, its harvest and shade are everlasting; this is the reward of those who were cautious, while the reward of denial is the Fire. [13: 35]

    Here, the term mathal is best translated as “example” in that it is intended to call attention to the Garden as being incomparable to any of ephemeral experience.

    Had either the Garden or the Fire been understood as merely figurative, I do not imagine the effect of such ayat upon the earliest generations would have proven to be as profound as it had been.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  293. @AnonStarter

    I agree that the descriptions of Paradise and Hellfire should not be viewed as “merely figurative,” and that the implication is that the actual experiences are in fact more intense than verbal descriptions can convey.

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
  294. @chuckywiz

    It’s called: British Islam. Black is the color of death and the symbolism in black burka wearing women is not very Islamic. Walking Body bags. Very British humor.

  295. “Between Muslims and non Muslims”? That’s why the Saudis bomb Arab Muslims……bcz religion really matters.

    Gold Oil and Diamonds.

    Nice try though….

  296. @Iris

    These creatures aren’t North Africans!!! They move like European hooligans! You can’t fake body language

  297. GoMore says:

    At some point the invaders/settlers will all have to go, otherwise Europe will not survive. Spaniards did it in the past, now the second round is coming. And I mean ALL of them including Jews.

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