The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewGuillaume Durocher Archive
Containment Is Futile: Europe and China Seal Investment Deal as U.S. Grumbles
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
Source: Foreign Ministry of the People’s Republic of China

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

The European Union and China have agreed “in principle” to a deal on investment after seven long years of negotiation, pointedly ignoring the concerns of the incoming Biden administration. The economic consequences of the so-called Comprehensive Agreement on Investment (CAI) remain unclear, but the political signals are telling: the EU is following an essentially German economic agenda centered on global trade while the United States of America’s attempts to economically contain China are manifestly ineffective.

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced the agreement with Trumpesque hyperbole, to not say fake news, gushing that China had just sealed a deal with “the largest single market in the world.” In fact, with Brexit the EU economy is now unambiguously the second-largest in the world, with a respectable nominal GDP of $18.3 trillion (as against the United States’ $21.2 trillion and China’s fast-growing $15.2 trillion).

I suppose von der Leyen’s transparently false statement was made based on contrived interpretations of the word “single,” as if the U.S. economy did not form a “single market.” If the EU’s head honcho is willing to be so misleading in the headline, beware of the fine print.

All that being said, there’s no denying the importance of trade between Europe and China. With U.S. President Donald Trump’s trade war against China, the EU has now become the East Asian giant’s biggest trading partner. Total EU-China trade amounts to some 560 billion euros ($690.7 billion, as against U.S.-China trade of $634.8 billion).

The deal essentially aims to enable European companies and investors to operate securely in China, while granting Chinese companies similar rights in the EU market. It should become easier for European investors to set up joint ventures in China, get shares in automobile and telecoms companies, operate in financial services, and offshore their production. The Chinese should in principle be able to more easily invest – critics would say take over – the European energy and tech sectors.

EU companies currently invest the most in the Chinese automotive sector, naturally of great interest to Germany. (Source: European Commission)
EU companies currently invest the most in the Chinese automotive sector, naturally of great interest to Germany. (Source: European Commission)

The deal represents a “rebalancing,” the EU says, of a trade relationship which has long been marked by China’s closedness, currency manipulation, and mercantilist trade practices. The deal in principle “prohibits technology transfers and other distortive practices” and demands transparency for certain subsidies. The deal also has a plethora of environmental and labor provisions, but critics (no bleeding hearts at that) lament that these are too general and basically unenforceable.

Money talks

Some have hailed the deal as a triumph of European Realpolitik and even a manifestation of the bloc’s ambitions for “strategic autonomy.” In fact, the EU has long been promiscuous in negotiating trade deals, often with precious little regard for so-called “EU values” (witness the bloc’s agreements and/or negotiations with Israel and the Gulf Arab states).

European trade deals and negotiations as of 2019. (Source: European Council)
European trade deals and negotiations as of 2019. (Source: European Council)

In the Balkans, the Ukraine, and the Caucasus, such economic deals are indeed part of a wider and generally effective strategic agenda of securing these states in the EU’s orbit and away from Russia.

Some have attacked the EU for making a deal at a time when Beijing, which leads the largest dictatorship in the world, is reasserting control over Hong Kong and is said to be committing “cultural genocide” against the Muslim Uyghur minority, complete with million-man-strong concentration camps. Raphaël Glucksmann,[1]Raphaël Glucksmann, like his warmongering Maoist-turned-neoconservative father André Glucksmann, has been criticized as a walking-talking anti-Semitic caricature. Glucksmann fils praised Mikheil Saakashvili’s government in Georgia in 2008 for being “made up of young people who have American, English, or Israeli dual citizenship, making Tbilisi like a Western [Tower of] Babel in the heart of the Caucasus.” a Jewish-Socialist-globalist-Zionist member of the European Parliament, denounced EU leaders in a dramatic speech, declaiming “J’accuse!

Certainly, the deal makes a mockery of “EU values.” But then, perpetual hypocrisies are merely the wages of Wilsonianism.

(Franco-)German leadership confirmed, U.S. on sidelines

The EU-China deal is indicative of certain tendencies in both global and intra-European politics.

Just days before the EU-China agreement, U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo had warned that economic engagement with China had failed and that the Chinese Communist Party aims to “dominate the free world,” noting that parts of the world still did not recognize this. The latter was something of an understatement as indeed the EU-China deal came on the heels of China’s own trade agreement with other 14 Asia-Pacific nations, including Australia, Japan, New Zealand, and South Korea.

Even if these agreements are in fact not particularly deep, they show the United States’ inability to corral allies and the general futility of attempts to contain China economically. In a decade or two, China is likely to become too powerful economically to contain, period.

Within the EU, the deal is suggestive of real power dynamics. The deal was rushedly concluded “in principle” at the end of 2020 under pressure from Germany,[2]One is reminded of President Bill Clinton and Prime Minister Tony Blair’s false announcement of the completed mapping of the human genome on June 26, 2000. In fact, as one of the researchers later conceded, “The date of the announcement . . . was picked because it happened to be free in both Bill Clinton’s and Tony Blair’s diaries. It was not clear that the Human Genome Project had quite got to its magic 90 percent mark by then . . . so nobody was really ready to announce; but it became politically inescapable to do so. We just put together what we did have and wrapped it up in a nice way, and said it was done . . . Yes, we were just a bunch of phonies!” Quoted in George Church and Ed Regis, Regenesis (New York: Basic Books, 2012), p. 167. which then held the EU’s rotating presidency. German Chancellor Angela Merkel no doubt wished to tie a bow on her final months in office. Germany is the only major European economy which is a net exporter of goods to China.

The deal was sealed over the objections of several EU countries – namely Italy, Spain, Poland, and Belgium – particularly regarding labor rights (China is alleged to be using slave labor). The French trade minister had even threatened to scupper the deal but in fact backed down. The triumph of Germany’s position is no surprise: EU head von der Leyen long served as Merkel’s defense minister, continues to keep close contact with the Chancellor, and was no doubt sensitive to her needs.

What’s more, French President Emmanuel Macron was mysteriously allowed to participate in the conference call with Chinese supremo Xi Jinping, which normally should have only included the leaders of EU institutions. Presumably this was to enable the Frenchman to, yet again, play the statesman on the international stage. The Italians by contrast were snubbed, their request to participate being rejected. The desire to limit personalities on the European side is certainly understandable, insofar as foreign leaders like Barack Obama had long complained of being bored at having to meet with so many interchangeable European officials. All this is suggestive of the EU’s real leadership today: (symbolically Franco-)German.

Critics may allege that the EU’s deal with China is tone deaf and will only worsen the denationalization and decimation of industries in the Old Continent. Brussels insists that implementation of the agreement will require extensive “engagement and monitoring.” On the Chinese side, the limited documentation available in English is characteristically opaque. China had in fact recently passed a National Security Law enabling the country to halt foreign investments if these are deemed threatening.

Time will tell what all this adds up to economically. What is certain is that, despite Washington’s best efforts to demonize and isolate Beijing, China is now a much sought-after economic partner being avidly courted by powers across the world from western Eurasia to the Pacific rim.

Notes

[1] Raphaël Glucksmann, like his warmongering Maoist-turned-neoconservative father André Glucksmann, has been criticized as a walking-talking anti-Semitic caricature. Glucksmann fils praised Mikheil Saakashvili’s government in Georgia in 2008 for being “made up of young people who have American, English, or Israeli dual citizenship, making Tbilisi like a Western [Tower of] Babel in the heart of the Caucasus.”

[2] One is reminded of President Bill Clinton and Prime Minister Tony Blair’s false announcement of the completed mapping of the human genome on June 26, 2000. In fact, as one of the researchers later conceded, “The date of the announcement . . . was picked because it happened to be free in both Bill Clinton’s and Tony Blair’s diaries. It was not clear that the Human Genome Project had quite got to its magic 90 percent mark by then . . . so nobody was really ready to announce; but it became politically inescapable to do so. We just put together what we did have and wrapped it up in a nice way, and said it was done . . . Yes, we were just a bunch of phonies!” Quoted in George Church and Ed Regis, Regenesis (New York: Basic Books, 2012), p. 167.

 
Hide 227 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. It makes so little sense. So, when it comes to dealing with China, EU goes its own way. But it has no sovereignty when it comes to defending Europe from Africa and Muslim World?

    Btw, Europe entered into business with China because US led the way. So, it’s a bit rich for the US to be telling EU to NOT do business with China now.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    , @sally
    , @Moi
  2. Andrei says:

    The next 4 years will likely be crucial in whether the US can pull Europe away from China. If they can’t, by then China will be too powerful economically (if it isn’t already) for Europe to disentangle itself. And if Europe will be forced to choose between NATO and economic ties with China after 2025, it will be easier to give up on NATO.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Showmethereal
  3. Rosie says:

    The Chinese will not play by the rules and the profiteers of globalist trade will not allow EU authorities to call them to account for cheating. This is incredibly foolish on EU’s part.

    • Agree: ThreeCranes, Fred777
    • Replies: @Showmethereal
    , @padre
  4. Anonymous[202] • Disclaimer says:

    Compared to the ongoing race replacement of ethnic Europeans by blacks and browns – something the EU encourages – it’s just merely piss and wind. Nothing to care about. Here today, gone tomorrow etc etc.

    • Agree: neutral, Alfa158, Creatura
  5. Here is HK’s last colonial governor, Chris Patten, trying to throw a wrench into the talks, because apparently China is doing a bit of long-overdue lawn mowing in HK:
    https://www.hongkongwatch.org/all-posts/2021/1/6/chris-patten-mass-arrests-of-hong-kong-democrats-shows-why-eu-parliament-must-reject-china-investment-agreement
    Well, his country’s out of EU.
    (Globalist oligarchs collude and bicker. Business as usual, eh?)

  6. Beijing, which leads the largest dictatorship in the world

    If it’s dictatorships you want, look no further than our own, where our leader has the sole power to (and does):
    * Declare war. Frequently.
    * Issue 300,000 national security letters (administrative subpoenas with gag orders that enjoin recipients from ever divulging they’ve been served);
    * Control information at all times under his National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions.
    * Torture, kidnap and kill anyone, anywhere, at will.
    * Secretly ban 50,000 citizens from flying–and refusing to explain why.
    * Imprison 2,000,000 citizens without trial.
    * Execute 1,000 citizens each year prior to arrest.
    * Kill 1,000 foreign civilians every day since 1951
    * Massacre its own men, women and children for their beliefs
    * Assassinate its own citizens abroad, for their beliefs.
    * Bomb and kill minority citizens from the air. Repeatedly.

    (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/mar/02/duncancampbell) (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/10/move-1985-bombing-reconciliation-philadelphia).

  7. anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    Seems that GDP comparisons are misleading. China’s economy is based on real, tangible things, manufacturing items all across the board that are exported globally. Even our voting machines are made in China, I come to find out. The US helped them along quite a bit in all this as everyone well knows. Now we’re dependent upon them for our pharmaceuticals, a disgraceful situation and one that leaves us vulnerable. American greed and short-sightedness have led to this. What does the US have to offer Europe besides extortion payments to NATO and constant involvement in sanctions and cold war with Russia? Even American cultural export has turned into trash.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  8. Anon[144] • Disclaimer says:

    Time will tell what all this adds up to economically. What is certain is that, despite Washington’s best efforts to demonize and isolate Beijing, China is now a much sought-after economic partner being avidly courted by powers across the world from western Eurasia to the Pacific rim.

    This part is true.
    Other parts are still mostly Washington efforts to demonize and isolate Beijing. Good effort, keep on trying. Anyway there is not much other things Washington can do.

  9. antibeast says:

    All that being said, there’s no denying the importance of trade between Europe and China. With U.S. President Donald Trump’s trade war against China, the EU has now become the East Asian giant’s biggest trading partner. Total EU-China trade amounts to some 560 billion euros ($690.7 billion, as against U.S.-China trade of $634.8 billion).

    The figure of $634.8 billion is misleading because 60% of the US-China trade consists of US goods manufactured in China and then re-exported back to the USA by US multinationals who own the legal title to those US goods. By imposing tariffs on steel, aluminum and Chinese-made imports, Trump’s “America First” policies had impeded this “export processing” trade which will shift dramatically to other lower-cost countries such as Mexico as the supply-chains of US multinationals become “regionalized” to serve the US market. Trump also succeeded in abrogating the old NAFTA by replacing it with the new USMCA which will hasten the process of moving the supply-chains of US multinationals back to North America.

    In contrast, the EU-China trade consists mostly of Western and Chinese goods made in the EU and China respectively. Anybody who’s been to China will notice the prevalence of Western luxury brands in China, mostly “Made in Europe”.

    Here’s list of the top luxury brands searched in China:

    This new EU-China investment treaty will hasten the economic integration of the Eurasian continent by expediting cross-border capital and technology flows between the EU and China, effectively bypassing the trade barriers for both EU and Chinese companies by manufacturing goods locally in and providing services directly to both markets.

    • Thanks: Sean
    • Replies: @Eugene Norman
  10. anon[293] • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrei

    It’s already too late. Demographic change in the United States means Europe and Asia are decoupling from it culturally, not just economically. There will be no real impetus to keep up alliances with the United States outside of convenience or inertia; heart-felt alliances are gone. Witness the success of Demon Slayer in Japan (a domestic animated feature with Japanese characters) and the failure of multiple far-left, feminist, and diversity quota movies in Asia — Star Wars, Wonder Woman 1984

    Asia and Europe were only ever interested in America’s European cultural aesthetic. For the longest time, America was the place European artists could come and make their mark as directors, and the Japanese based their thriving anime and manga industries on old Disney cartoons. That’s fast disappearing.

    Diversity quotas in hiring and awards nominations — primarily targeting Europeans — means that demographic can no longer create new and interesting things. You write what you know, as the saying goes. And because they can’t do that, it’s all remakes and race swaps and diversity hires that you can’t correct without being called names. Thus, unqualified, political extremists are brought on to things they know nothing about and promptly ruin them: James Bond is replaced with a black woman in the newest movie co-written by a feminist; White males are banned from the Star Wars IP they created — all YA feminist characters now; the newest Star Trek is basically black trek: no White male is on the cast unless he is a villain or in make-up, and the central characters are all POC or women / every episode features the black star killing a White male (the racial politics of this show aren’t hidden very well) …

    Countless American IPs like Star Trek and Star Wars have been ruined through identity politics, checklist casting, and poor writing (from affirmative action hiring practices). That won’t change anytime soon. The Academy Awards can’t even find a host for their ceremony anymore due to left-wing attacks.

    In Japan, pretty much the only Western movies that do well anymore are movies with primarily White casts — Frozen 2, for example. Same with China — Knives Out did much better than Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker, which tanked all over the continent. Asians and Europeans just aren’t much into endless black racist this and black racist that. They want to see Europeans, and to some extent Asians and Hispanics as long as they are physically attractive and not “body positive.” They want positive role models for their kids, not nihilism and sadism. They want traditional characters, not weird LGBTQ characters in everything.

    Asia can still do that. America cannot. Thus, you should expect Europe to decouple from the US and get closer to Asia in the future.

  11. Sean says:

    The Mongol, for Lenz, greatly exceeds the Nordic man in mental development. And yet even so, “the Mongol’s memory is stronger than his intellect”; his is more a capacity for “imitation than for invention”. The Chinese excels in memorization and apprehension, but falls behind in abstraction, imagination and critical thought. [T]he Chinese have never developed mechanical techniques comparable to those of Europeans. (Racial Hygiene: Medicine Under the Nazis, R Proctor · 1988)

    While high, Chinese intelligence was selected for through the Imperial examination system, which rewarded Eight-legged essay type thinking. But China can get access to the fruits of such a society without the political inconvenience of allowing those un-Confucian freedoms.

    https://www.aaas.org/news/us-china-science-and-technology-cooperation-30-looking-forward Thirty years ago, as U.S. President Jimmy Carter and Chinese Vice Premier Deng Xiaoping moved to normalize relations by signing a bi-lateral science and technology agreement, few could have foreseen the impact: S&T cooperation has become a pillar in a complex and important relationship, yielding a range of research advances and helping to drive billions of dollars in economic growth.

    In the early 80s many thought the predictions by prominent experts that the USSR would overtaking the West were coming true. Hence Carter moving Heaven and Earth to build up China economically and technologically. But the USSR was taken down by Reagan. How? President Ray-Gun initiated Star Wars while he cut off the flow of US technology to the USSR; all they got was grain. Isolation from Western technological inventions rather than economic containment is the secret to taking China down.

    H. R. McMaster said on the last day of the Trump state visit to China, Premier Li Keqiang, a trained economist, lectured the Americans that “China, having already developed its industrial and technological base, no longer needed the United States. … the U.S. role in the future global economy would merely be to provide China with raw materials, agricultural products, and energy to fuel its production”. What the Chinese are really planning is using their German made capital goods, unbeatable economies of scale and work discipline to out compete America in commercial laissez faire. But termite-like efficiency is not enough, they need to stay abreast of cutting edge technology. For innovation, a society requires ‘autonomy, diversity, failure tolerance and the recombination of knowledge’.

    Having covered adaptive landscapes in biology, he asks if this metaphor can have wider use. It can in chemistry, where there are many possible solutions to the problem of arranging atoms or molecules into larger structures. And in computing, such as delivery companies finding the optimal route for their fleet of vehicles. But Wagner even sees parallels in how artists, writers, or composers work, comparing what they do to a form of creative problem-solving in a mental landscape. Here too, finding better solutions sometimes requires big leaps, which can be brought about by play, daydreaming, or other means.

    The US National Institutes of Health was funding risky research in Wuhan, China into ‘gain of function’ experiments (subject of Steven Pinker 2017 ‘million dead by bioerror or terror by December 2020’ bet with Martin Rees) creating novel coronaviruses very similar to COVID-19. d Trump had this grant for American taxpayers to fund very advanced research in China cancelled, but the NIH has reinstated it .

    The Chinese had listened to Professor of Epidemiology W. Ian Lipkin warning the Chinese on his frequent visits to their country over more than a decade that they had to shut down their wet markets since these were the prime suspected origin in the novel SARS pandemic of 2003. They ignored him. They will lack the imagination to be careful with Artificial General Intelligence either I suppose.

  12. In fact, with Brexit the EU economy is now unambiguously the second-largest in the world, with a respectable nominal GDP of $18.3 trillion (as against the United States’ $21.2 trillion and China’s fast-growing $15.2 trillion).

    The comparison is complicated by public debt, of which the US has >2.5x more than the EU total and is quickly approaching 3x. I guess the most correct approach would be to do a full balance sheet comparison. Given that the pile-on of debt on both sides of the Atlantic is propping up the GDP, it must be adjusted by some measure; perhaps the current public deficits, where the US again is number one. Then there’s the matter of trade deficits.

    Some folks refer to her as Ursala been Lyin’, but in her statement about the EU being number two, she may be actually telling the truth … and yes, there might be a colloquial pun in there.

    • Replies: @Vaterland
  13. Vaterland says:
    @Sean

    And why the hell should we want to take down China? The USA today exports blacked.com, BLM, Pedowood brainwashing, transkids and Netflix Cuties, globohomo white guilt poison literally based on OSS/CIA ‘Denazification’ mass psychology programs, wars for Israel and the follow up refugee crisis, a Cold War with Russia which Europe gets to suffer the repercussions for, post-patriot act NSA mass surveillance and other glories of ZOG politics to Europe.

    And don’t get me fucking started on WW 2. The US government, not the people to whom it became its own hostile elite, is the primary enemy of Europe for at least a century.

    In fact, I had advocated for this exact kind of policy over two years ago and basically outlined it to Anatoly Karlin a few months ago. It consists of essentially these steps:

    – decoupling from the Anglo-Sphere dominated Trans-Atlantic World in a post-Brexit world with which the UK essentially disappeared from the world stage; and orienting more towards a continental-Eurasian coalition

    – gradual replacement of NATO by an EU army and an independent EU defense initiative; even the bloody socdems said that one of the main factors for it is to put in more checks and balances so a (Zionist/Metissage) President like Sarkozy just couldn’t go on his own to kill Gadafi and plunge Libya into Chaos and worsen the border crisis

    – a “de-wokening” of the left (instead of full fashy larping) as a first step of cultural independence and domestic hegemony; hasn’t worked in Germany so far (not surprised!), but there is Macron who is doing exactly this. Bigly!

    – a trade-expansion with China and building of a strategic alliance in the long term to achieve an independent European foreign policy

    In the Cold War between CHYNA and the USA it was paramount to win over Europe. The EU can’t really design world policy on its own, but it is ultimately the king-maker. And America, under Obama and more so under Trump, has done everything it could to make sure that Europe “falls” to China.

    However, I get tired of Durocher saying stuff like “Germany runs the EU”. Germany is a country with no peace contract, still occupied by America, psychologically broken and with an equally hostile elite. Germany’s influence in Europe is entirely bound to its fulfillment of the foundations of geopolitics of the post WW 2 world order, its values and the wishes of its real, in fact global elite: INCLUDING THE WHITE GENOCIDE DEMOGRAPHICS.
    In Berlin the Open Society Foundation has more influence than the wishes of the average German voter. Not my opinion! That’s the statement of Willy Wimmer, Helmut Kohl’s closest advisor; a man from a time when Germany – at least somewhat! – had its own policies. It is true that Germany increasingly, especially Frankfurt (Rothschild’s old home), feels like the heart of an emerging empire. But not ours!

    The transfer from the USA, or let’s say a diversification of the global elite’s portfolio, is entirely in-line with the goals of the world’s real elite who have moved much of America’s tech towards China already. We will see the rise of a 2nd Silicon Valley in Israel and its key role in the belt n road. Interestingly Russia is almost entirely left out and I think China wants the Siberian permafrost resources when the soil opens up to climate change and has interests in the icy north passage and wants control over Russia’s central-Asian economic zone. – So why Germany now? Because Berlin is the new Tel Aviv and there is an aliyah movement by Israel’s libtards, those with the Shekels and intelligentsia, towards it. The actual Weimar 2.0 is well on its way. Mazel Tov!

    Is this a fundamentally good development for Europeans, especially if they are right-wing? NO! And Durocher, like a really good goy, is reposting a meme from an Eurasianist, anti-white, effectively antifa account (I actually went through the damn thing). – The new Freemason Union made its own pact with the Chicoms while the old Freemason union is in decline. That’s all. The last hope for true independent European politics and German sovereignty ended in 1945, I have finally accepted this now. “Seit 1945 sind wir nie mehr voll souverän gewesen!” t. Wolfang Schäuble. Or try: “Die, die gewählt werden, haben nichts zu sagen. Und die etwas zu sagen haben, werden nicht gewählt.” t. Horst Seehofer.

    • Agree: HeebHunter
  14. Vaterland says:
    @The Alarmist

    Largest single common market refers to the number of people. I usually see it this way myself. Maybe this is at least a tiny shrivel of euro-centrism left in Flintenuschi.

  15. @Sean

    “What the Chinese are really planning is using their German made capital goods, unbeatable economies of scale and work discipline to out compete America in commercial laissez faire.”

    German made advanced machine tools with which the Chinese will make their own. Germany will go the same way with China as has the USA. While they may benefit in the short run, in the long one, they will regret this.

    • Agree: Rosie, Thim
    • Replies: @Old and Grumpy
  16. tyrone says:

    Question: will they be using dollars in those trades?

  17. Mitleser says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Reminder that the PRC is officially a dictatorship:

    CHAPTER I. GENERAL PRINCIPLES
    Article 1. The People’s Republic of China is a socialist state under the people’s democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants. The socialist system is the basic system of the People’s Republic of China. Sabotage of the socialist system by any organization or individual is prohibited.

    http://en.people.cn/constitution/constitution.html

  18. Bro43rd says:

    China’s main problem is not being able to produce their own food & energy. Thus they make nice with the US even though the US acts increasingly bellicose towards them. A China/ Russia partnership would seriously throw a monkey wrench in the US machine. Thus the US’s constant manipulation of geopolitics. It’s like divide & conquer is the only trick they know. But as it works so well (at home & abroad) why do anything else.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  19. neutral says:

    Its not China that needs containment, but America. More countries need to push for de dollarisation and purging all US run companies from their land.

  20. The writer seems to lack understanding of economic terms. Both the EU and China are larger “markets” than the US. Nominal GDP has nothing to do with it. More goods are sold in either. For instance Japan is “the largest market for importex natural gas” doesnt mean Japan uses the most energy.
    And by PPP – both the EU and China are bigger economies than the US.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  21. @Andrei

    China alreadybecame the EU’s biggest trade partner in 2020. Judging by growth forecasts – what would change that going forward?

    • Replies: @Andrei
  22. @Rosie

    What rules? Bowing when the west says to? Certainly not WTO rules.

    • LOL: Rosie
    • Replies: @frankie p
  23. anon[901] • Disclaimer says:

    Europe better be careful what they wish for. Manufacturing remains very important to them, especially Germany. They don’t want to end up like the US with all manufacturing jobs ended up outsourced to China, while China swamps the continent with tourists, businessmen, “investors” and “students”, who end up never leave. The last thing I need to see in Paris or Berlin is restaurants serving “Chinese regional cuisine” everywhere I turn. There isn’t a major city or university you could go to all over the US these days to get away from Mandarin speaking people. Immigration is the new mode of invasion in the 21st century, Chindians will take over your country without firing a single shot, all that’s needed is a “trade agreement”.

    • Troll: showmethereal
    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  24. It ain’t over until the fat lady sings. The EU parliament still has to give its stamp of approval and you better believe CIA assets are being activated right now.

    In general, *never* underestimate the sheer slave mentality and servility of Europe towards the US empire.

    • Replies: @last straw
  25. Anon[287] • Disclaimer says:

    Either EU is trying too hard to turn into the next US, or they are aware that USA has become JUSA and are casting a wary eye across the Atlantic. Most of Biden’s cabinet esp. the most important positions in foreign policy and finance will be dominated by Jews. Best thing that happened to Europe was when all of its Jews voluntarily left for the US, they’ve paid a heavy price in having these people lived among them for two millennia. They know these people all too well.

    • Replies: @anon
  26. frankie p says:
    @Showmethereal

    The US doesn’t care about WTO rules or insignificant things like international law. We’re talking about the new and improved “Rules-based International Order”, which means basically that every country must follow all the rules made up by the US on the fly. I know…it ain’t gonna fly. Good to see the European poodles pulling on and biting at the US leash a bit. It’s long overdue.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  27. frankie p says:
    @Mitleser

    Damn! I wish we could implement a democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on an alliance of workers and deplorables in the US. Perhaps we could achieve outcomes that benefit the grass roots of the nation instead of the extractive financial sector and globalist corporations.

    Bring on the dictatorship of the people!

  28. Miro23 says:

    Time will tell what all this adds up to economically. What is certain is that, despite Washington’s best efforts to demonize and isolate Beijing, China is now a much sought-after economic partner being avidly courted by powers across the world from western Eurasia to the Pacific rim.

    The ROW (Rest Of the World) is starting to look at the US the way they did the Weimar Republic in the 1920’s – a collapsing, sleazy, “counter-cultural” dump being looted by a Jewish elite.

  29. Americans who voted for the left, goofed, made a serious mistake.. Americans who put their faith in the right goofed, were severely deluded.. Americans who supported President Donald Trump, whom the left and right both hated put their faith in the president, which was destroyed by the leaders of the left and the right,,both of whom are opposite sides of the same coin, a uni-party, united against citizens.. .

    Conclusion: Americans waited and goofed around too long as their nation was stolen from them by traitors who will now take their freedoms away..

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Ugetit
  30. @Priss Factor

    Makes sense if you remember that auto manufacturers basically call the shots in the EU these days. Import cheap labor, export to China. Win/win. Or so they think

  31. GMC says:

    Remember when Nuland was in Ukraine talking to Ambassador PyRat and she said F”’k the EU ? Well, I think the EU is going to get even on that one – the dollar will fall , the Euro and Yuan will take over for a short time – then the NWO currency will appear. Ms. Van der Leyen has probably been waiting for this opportunity since 2014 . lol

  32. @Godfree Roberts

    An excellent response, Mr. Roberts.

    Many people would dispute that statement about China being a ‘dictatorship’ and instead point out that it is a ‘meritocracy’. That’s the sort of government which we in the West should try to get — it being the most fair & efficient.

    The fact that the deal is being put together when China is ‘reasserting control over Hong Kong’ and when Uighurs are being imprisoned shouldn’t shouldn’t offend us too much. Hong Kong was Chinese territory for well over a thousand years before the British illegally absconded with it, and the protest leaders there were naive pro-US fanatics guided step-by-step by NED & the CIA.

    As for the Uighurs, China has been well-advised to arrange re-education facilities for them, since many of the Uighur leaders were being radicalized by the CIA & by Erdogan’s Turkish government — turned into off-shoots of al-Qaida, in fact. My understanding is that many of the re-education centres operate on a drop-in basis & provide counselling and employment advice.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  33. LondonBob says:

    My impression is news have gone all in on a cold war with China, perhaps China’s recent vocal support for Palestine is an acknowledgement of that.

    Nice get lost message to Biden.

  34. @Mitleser

    What refreshing honesty! Instead of holding massively fraudulent elections, the Chinese truthfully state how their country is to be run. One cannot help but admire—be touched even—by such straightforwardness, such integrity, such transparency! Best of all, China is a real nation centered on one people with a common culture, identity, and history. Having survived countless invasions, civil wars, epidemics, and natural disasters, China has endured since the pharaohs ruled Egypt and will be around far into the future. As for the American “diversity” zoo, it seems rather unlikely to see the 22nd century. Even if it did, would that be a reason to celebrate?

    • Agree: HeebHunter
  35. @Vaterland

    Because Sean anon eats shit n spews shit.

    Literally.

    The Zionists are having epileptic seizures because they cannot get China.

    Chinese anons really should read their comments n learn the techniques of expert trolling.

    • Agree: LondonBob
    • Replies: @Vaterland
  36. @Dr. Charles Fhandrich

    I feel like every trump supporter should be forced to watch the entirety of trumpland the movie.

    The first half has been cut n edited by trump supporters to spread pro trump support. I bet non of them watch the second half.

    Control of USA has progressed for 4 decades. Start date was probably the economic crisis in the 70s. College admissions and media buy outs. Sjws first appeared like 20 years ago. BLM is the 3rd step. There should be a fourth and final step. And it is coming.

  37. @Mitleser

    Hmmm.

    Country run by a 100 million strong political party with super high entry requirements

    Or

    Country run by the top 0.001%.

    Such a hard choice I see. Better slap a negative label on the first choice.

  38. “In a decade or two, China is likely to become too powerful economically to contain, period.”

    This should worry the Chinese leaders for it will invite a nuclear holocaust. For all its progressive ideas, America is still a conservative nation with its religious creed firmly rooted in the Biblical and Judeo-Christian views of end times and a hubristic China, too smart for its own good, will provoke desire for vengeance notwithstanding Mutee Merkel’s newly discovered love for the Yellow Peril.

    • Disagree: GomezAdddams
  39. padre says:
    @Rosie

    By rules you mean western rules, where they decide what is right and what is wrong?

  40. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:

    Money Talks:

    Purely and simply, the Chinese – thanks to their high natural intelligence and strong work ethic , combined with the Economist formulated globalism which has so dominated politics these past four decades – old most of the capital and cash in today’s world.

    On the other hand, the EU is staring at another 40 years plus of stagnation to go with the 40 years they’ve just had. So, basically, if the EU is to have any sort of future, this arrangement is a necessity.

    At the end of the day, it’s about survival, survival for the EU, nothing more, nothing less.

    The irony is that a purely capitalist club, the EU, is seeking cash – the lifeblood of capitalism – from the communist run China.
    You couldn’t make it up, well, perhaps Lenin in his rope and hanging remark, did.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
    , @Philip Owen
  41. Anonymous[157] • Disclaimer says:

    Another irony is just how does this deal square with the rabidly pro EU, but vehemently anti Chinese Economist magazine?

  42. Ugetit says:
    @Dr. Charles Fhandrich

    Conclusion: Americans waited and goofed around too long as their nation was stolen from them by traitors who will now take their freedoms away..

    True, and guess who predicted as much a while back. Our freedoms were not only lifted from us but relinquished by us as well.

    Here’s Patrick Henry arguing against the coup d’ etat known as the US Constitution.

    Is this tame relinquishment of rights worthy of freemen?

    …Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined…I conceive this new government to be one of those dangers: it has produced those horrors which distress many of our best citizens…[since Greece and Rome, there have been numerous] instances of the people losing their liberty by their own carelessness and the ambition of a few.

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Henry%27s_speech_in_the_Virginia_Ratifying_Convention

    • Replies: @Dr. Charles Fhandrich
  43. @Mitleser

    Lol, do you even know where you are?

  44. John Hagan says: • Website

    All this is about the viability of the US dollar as an everlasting international trading currency. The realists see the future.
    That the chinese money system (computerised electronic) will do away with physical cash or dollars in all those countries that BRI covers and use the Chinese cashless apps will spell the slow but inevitable end for the US dollar. The transactions will start small and local but will eventually prevail overall other. Already the ‘SWIFT’ money transferr system is being outclassed by other players in cluding the Chinese which already has the largest volume of trade on the planet.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @Philip Owen
  45. @Temporary Insanity

    Lol, we, the rest of the non kike loving world, double dare you amerimutts and the rest of the anglo island monkeys to launch the nukes.

    Do it!
    I dare you.
    We dare you.
    For there will be a real Holocaust, not some stupid holohoax this time.
    Better yet, the very idea of your “countries” will be spat upon forever. Same for “liberalism” and “democracy”.

    • Replies: @Temporary Insanity
  46. @Anonymous

    China is national socialist and not marxist though. It is just inconvenient to drop (((Marx))) completely right now.

  47. Ugetit says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    “In a decade or two, China is likely to become too powerful economically to contain, period.”

    This should worry the Chinese leaders for it will invite a nuclear holocaust.

    Aside from the nuke factor, that also describes in a nice, tight, nutshell, why Germany “had” to be destroyed twice during the last century. Hopefully the Chinese have learned a few things about how to play the Talmud-grade psychopaths (both goy and non-goy) this time around.

    • Replies: @Temporary Insanity
  48. Seems to me that the West is repeating the Roman empire’s cycle. Remember when the Western Roman Empire divorced from the Eastern Roman Empire and then quickly devolved into chaos? Now the Anglosphere is divorcing from Continental Europe. Which of the two will follow into the Byzantine footsteps to live on another thousand years?

  49. Fred777 says:

    It will take the European working class about 5 years to realize they have been sold out.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  50. @Bro43rd

    A China/ Russia partnership would seriously throw a monkey wrench in the US machine.

    No. They’re, combined, too weak for the US. Perhaps in next 30-60 years, but not before that.

  51. antibeast says:
    @anon

    Europe better be careful what they wish for. Manufacturing remains very important to them, especially Germany. They don’t want to end up like the US with all manufacturing jobs ended up outsourced to China.

    China is Germany’s largest trading partner with Chinese exports to Germany slightly surpassing German imports to China. But Germany has been the biggest European investor in China for decades, especially in the auto sector. Unlike US multinationals who outsource everything under the sun, German multinationals have retained their high-value R&D, engineering and manufacturing base in Germany while outsourcing their low-value manufacturing to China. With this strategy, the Germans have done well in China with Audi, Daimler-Benz and BMW capturing the top three spots in the Chinese luxury auto market and VW taking the biggest market share in the Chinese auto mass market. German brands command such a high value in China that most of the US auto exports to China are German brands assembled in the USA.

    China swamps the continent with tourists, businessmen, “investors” and “students”, who end up never leave. The last thing I need to see in Paris or Berlin is restaurants serving “Chinese regional cuisine” everywhere I turn. There isn’t a major city or university you could go to all over the US these days to get away from Mandarin speaking people.

    Don’t worry. Chinese tourists, businessmen, investors and students will likely spend their money elsewhere instead of the USA. And India will likely replace China as Indians swamp the USA with “tourists”, “businessmen”, “investors” , “students” and “temporary workers” on H1-B visas who end up never leaving. So you’ll likely see ubiquitous mom-and-pop restaurants serving “Indian regional cuisine” everywhere you go.

    Immigration is the new mode of invasion in the 21st century, Chindians will take over your country without firing a single shot, all that’s needed is a “trade agreement”.

    Chinese immigrants have been moving back to China not going abroad over the last ten years, a trend that will likely accelerate as China reaches “developed” country status sometime in the next few decades. And no, the EU-China deal is an investment deal not a trade agreement which is something the Europeans have long wanted in order to invest more in China to serve the Chinese market. And as Chinese labor costs rise, Chinese companies will in turn invest more in the EU to serve the EU market

    Lastly, why are you so upset about this EU-China deal that has nothing to do with the USA? Trump wanted less US trade/investment with China. He got what he wished for.

  52. @ThreeCranes

    The City of London’s bankers will make sure the Chinese will never know what hits them when it eventually crumbles. Let’s face it China is borrowing lots of monopoly money for their Silk Road Initiative and Make Believe Naval Islands. With all that debt, the Chinese are unwittingly weaving their own noose. The Rothchild bank always wins, and it seems to love lots and lots of death heaped around it.

    • Replies: @utu
  53. @antibeast

    Chinese have oodles of humanity to feed. We have farm ground mainly owned by old farmers. We for the most part still have drinkable water. The Chinese will not be leaving anytime soon.

  54. antibeast says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    This should worry the Chinese leaders for it will invite a nuclear holocaust.

    Au contraire, China’s (as well as Russia’s) nuclear deterrence is exactly what is preventing another holocaust. Were it not for this very fact of mutually assured destruction, the USA would have started WWIII against China/Russia by now.

  55. @Astuteobservor II

    Better slap a negative label on the first choice.

    Hopefully as time goes on, “dictatorship” becomes a positive label.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  56. Jordan says:

    You know what, I’m slowly reaching a point where I can’t be bothered about China anymore. The treatment of Trump protesters by the left wing media was disgraceful. BLM riot, loot and steal and they barely utter a word.

    Facebook, Twitter and Google (YouTube) have the gall to censor President Trump ? After he defended them from EU penalties ? They can go to hell.

    I hope the EU taxes the crap out of Twitter, Facebook and Google. I hope China keeps banning them and while they’re at it, kicks out the NBA, Nike and Amazon.

    Why the heck should conservatives fight China while the liberals reap the benefit of American capitalism, all the while censoring conservatives and trying to destroy conservative values.

    The GOP are wolves in sheeps clothing. The next time you want to fight a war ask the liberal snowflakes to enlist. Do not expect white working class conservatives to fight your wars for you.

  57. Never fear! The #bidenbananarepublic is here!

  58. utu says:
    @Old and Grumpy

    Song Hongbing’s “Currency Wars” was a bestseller in China. Chinese are well informed about bankers and Rothchilds.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_Wars

    It was however criticized in Western media as being far-fetched[10] and relying on conspiracism. As of 2011, more than one million copies of this book have been sold.

    According to the book, Western countries in general, and the United States in particular, are controlled by a clique of international bankers, who use currency manipulation (hence the title) to gain wealth by first loaning money in USD to developing nations and then shorting those country’s currency.

    “Let’s face it China is borrowing lots of monopoly money” – China’s debts are internal.

    • Agree: Mefobills
    • Replies: @Donald A Thomson
  59. HT says:

    How do you explain a world where Hitler is considered the devil but the deadliest regime in world history is now a well thought of trading partner in most of the world? Ever wonder why you never see news stories critical of China from the media?

  60. denk says:

    Some have attacked the EU for making a deal at a time when Beijing, which leads the largest dictatorship in the world, is reasserting control over Hong Kong and is said to be committing “cultural genocide” against the Muslim Uyghur minority, complete with million-man-strong concentration camps

    Matthew 23:24
    You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

    The euros had no problem supping with the world’s no 1 rogue state, whats the big deal with China ?

    Dont get too uppity with that ‘human rights B.S.
    Two can play at this game.

    Its getting real tiresome, this whitey hypocrisy.

    [MORE]

    The Chinese should organise a UN probe into EU, FUKUS genocides in Iraq, Kosovo, LIbya, Syria, Yemen, Afghan..just to name a few.

    There’r many impeccable eye witness,
    all they need is a platform to testify.

    Those who think they know all about Iraq , Nam etc ,think again,.
    YOu dont really know the kind of depravity committed in your name,

    Exhibit A
    Iraq at ground zero.

    Obstinate memories of Iraq and other places we have destroyed
    https://www.greanvillepost.com/2014/07/11/arbuthnot-obstinate-memories-of-iraq-and-other-places-we-have-wounded/

    Tip of an iceberg

    I normally like to highlight the nub of a linked article but every sentence in this expose’ stings like hell, dunno where to start.
    It merits a thorough read….only for those who still have their hearts at the right place.

    Still,
    This question makes me sit up,
    ‘Are they trying to destroy the food chain’

    Does it rings a bell ???

    PS
    A friendly spoiler,
    The following species shouldnt bother, I dont want them to waster their time.

    [My tribe right or wrong] wing nut
    [CIA is doing the right stuff in Xinjiang, Tibet] libtards
    [Nuke China, problems solved] HIQ idiots

  61. Eureka! says:

    Unz commenters are the most informed of any site I have seen. I always learn as much from the comments as the articles.

  62. Z-man says:

    It’s amazing, the Chinese foisted the plague on Europe and the whole world and the EU is kissing their arse. Nihilism, continental wide.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  63. Bit Def says:
    @Vaterland

    European or German sovereignty in the 1940s means the extermination of many Europeans to make room for ze Germans. No thanks.

    • Replies: @Ugetit
    , @Vaterland
  64. Bao says:

    China is kicking American ass so badly it hurts to even look.

    • Replies: @Temporary Insanity
  65. @antibeast

    I would not count on the Russians because in the end they will not abandon their own in the West, notwithstanding rhetoric that comes out of the media (go ask Bibi if that is true or not) to lull Chinese into a false sense of security.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  66. Mefobills says:
    @anonymous

    China’s economy is based on real, tangible things, manufacturing items all across the board that are exported globally

    China’s economy is industrial capitalism, which in turn has “industrial planning.”

    Industrial planning means that government co-ordinates and does planning for industry. China’s government is “over” industry. China’s government owns China’s money power via their state banks.

    European countries do not operate with industrial capitalism, with the possible exception of Germany which is “industrial capitalist lite.”

    Does anybody remember Varoufakis trying to teach economics to the lawyers and politicians in Brussels, such as Schauble?

    https://www.marketplace.org/2017/11/03/greek-finance-minister-yanis-varoufakis/

    Now the villains in your story are the forces that prioritized bondholders and big banks over the Greek population

    Behind EU ministers are the real power, which is bond-holders and big banks. The big banks in turn are private corporations. The stock owners are the real power behind the big banks.

    China’s government routinely slams the heads of privateers and big-capital against the wall. Where’s Jack Ma after his attempted power grab with finance tech?

    https://techwireasia.com/2021/01/how-the-worlds-biggest-fintech-ant-group-was-brought-down/

    Too bad national socialist Germany lost WW2, the mantle of industrial capitalism has been passed to China. European people will keep losing as long as the construct of finance capitalism controls their countries and economies.

    Europe will sell off its real assets, including its people, because private banks and privateer bond holders want guaranteed profits. The de-nationalized elites will escape to their “international” cities, and their gated communities, while the world burns around them. I got mine!, and screw you.

    The real owners of America and Europe are hidden oligarchs, including many of our (((friends))) who are de-nationalized elites, who would sell their grandmother if they could make gains.

    American System of Economy of the founders > Industrial Capitalism > Fascism

    British System of Economy > Finance Capitalism > Globo-homo democracies

    • Agree: GeeBee, John Regan
  67. @Ugetit

    Anglo-American-Zionist will destroy China just as they have destroyed populist Trump.

    • Replies: @Ugetit
    , @Davidoff
  68. @denk

    One can only hope Western hypocrisy will be exposed for what it is, as China moves away from the nice guy act to Wolf Warrior diplomacy.

    • Replies: @denk
  69. @HeebHunter

    “Do it!
    I dare you.
    We dare you.”

    It isn’t up to me for I don’t have the nuclear “button” to press but you could be rest assured that if I had it then I would press it just to entertain you.

  70. Bit Def says:

    The countries in Eastern Europe exposed to Russia will find it very difficult to give up on US and rely solely on European vain promises of support and Russian promises of peace. And also, if the EU bureaucrats and Frau Merkel think they can talk to China from an equal position, on their own, then they are delusional as fuck.

    • Replies: @dogbumbreath
  71. Anonymous[894] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fred777

    In fact, they were ‘sold out’ 30 years ago, with the general, (elite driven), move to ‘globalisation’.

    As one French trade union official put it, long ago, ‘modern French politicians will, literally, fight to the death to defend globalisation, but will not lift a finger to do anything beneficial for the typical Frenchman’, or something to that effect, I do wish I could reproduce the exact quote.

  72. Anonymous[338] • Disclaimer says:
    @antibeast

    The USA came within an ace of triumph with the coming to power of those two worthless, useless, lickspittle, filthy coward traitors Gorbachev and Yeltsin, and of course, the Tiananem Square protests, naturally enough triggered by the mere stench of Gorbachev in China, which came within touching distance of turning China into a Yeltsin style bandit wasteland, looted by the Wall St Mafia/Economist.

    I most earnestly warn all Chinese people reading this that a ‘reformist’ traitor from within is the most likely way the Americans will destroy China.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  73. Ugetit says:
    @Bit Def

    European or German sovereignty in the 1940s means the extermination of many Europeans to make room for ze Germans.

    How did you acquire that notion?

    Any word on the bankster backed Bolshies? (Hint: See comment #67.)

  74. antibeast says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    I would not count on the Russians because in the end they will not abandon their own in the West, notwithstanding rhetoric that comes out of the media (go ask Bibi if that is true or not) to lull Chinese into a false sense of security.

    I was addressing the comment made by a poster regarding nuclear blackmail by nuclear-armed States which applies only to non-nuclear-armed States not to nuclear-armed States. The day Mao turned China into a nuclear-armed State was the day China turned into an “untouchable” State. All non-nuclear-armed States must seek to be under the nuclear umbrella of a nuclear-armed State. Anything else is a futile exercise.

    • Replies: @Temporary Insanity
  75. Ugetit says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    Anglo-American-Zionist will destroy China just as they have destroyed populist Trump.

    And Germany.

    The Zio-Commie drug lords and money shysters certainly have been raising Cain in China for a long time, so I’m praying that the Chinese leadership has a long memory, a bit of loyalty, and doesn’t get duped and sell out to the usual suspects like the murderous, hypocritical, venal, perverted, grifters that have long passed as “leaders” in Uncle Sucker Land.

    In other words, you certainly could be correct, but I hope the heck not!

    PS: Trump was a PINO and a theatrical, Zionist-globalist, con-man punk and nothing more. No chance that he was ever a populist, just like all his scummy predecessors since at least Teddy Roosevelt. Any other view is hopeless, wishful, daydreaming.

    • Replies: @Temporary Insanity
  76. @John Hagan

    All this is about the viability of the US dollar as an everlasting international trading currency. The realists see the future.

    Agree, but my concern is that the kleptocrats who have taken over the US will choose to provoke war with anyone they can to enforce the petrodollar.

    It does not matter to the kleptocrats whether such wars are “won”–all that matters to them is disrupting non-petrodollar international commerce and getting a big skim from a wartime economy.

    That is why nuclear weapons will be off the table.

    The added bonus for the kleptocrats is it will give them many tools to suppress domestic dissent beneath a mass media propaganda firestorm demanding “patriotism”.

    • Agree: John Hagan
    • Replies: @John Hagan
  77. @antibeast

    “The day Mao turned China into a nuclear-armed State was the day China turned into an “untouchable” State.”

    I certainly hope your assessment is on the money for anything less would be disaster for all involved.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  78. @Ugetit

    Chinese leaders are marching to the tune of their own and if they are successful it will be their glory to claim but conversely, if it should fail watch for unprecedented havoc around the world.

  79. @Bao

    Will you please stop with the self flagellation, er, self congratulation!

  80. antibeast says:
    @Anonymous

    The USA came within an ace of triumph with the coming to power of those two worthless, useless, lickspittle, filthy coward traitors Gorbachev and Yeltsin, and of course, the Tiananem Square protests, naturally enough triggered by the mere stench of Gorbachev in China, which came within touching distance of turning China into a Yeltsin style bandit wasteland, looted by the Wall St Mafia/Economist.

    The reason why Deng’s China had fared better than Yeltsin’s Russia was because Deng refused to accept political liberalization which the Western Capitalists wanted to impose on China via political subversion (Tiananmen protests, HK riots, Xinjiang radicals, etc.). If Deng had adopted political liberalism just like Gorbachev, then you would have seen the Western Capitalist takeover of China which is exactly what happened to Yeltsin’s Russia when Russian Oligarchs bought off the entire political class and took over the entire economic system with help from Harvard economists and Wall Street financiers.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  81. antibeast says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    Ever since the five permanent members of the UNSC became nuclear-armed States to form the Nuclear Club which excludes other nuclear-armed States such as India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel, the unwritten rule of modern warfare has been the doctrine of nuclear deterrence, summarized as follows:

    1. Nuclear-armed States can wage conventional wars against non-nuclear armed States but not vice-versa.
    2. Nuclear-armed States can not wage conventional wars against another nuclear-armed State.
    3. Nuclear-armed States can wage a nuclear war against a non-nuclear armed State but not vice-versa.

    That’s the only reason why the USA has started conventional wars against non-nuclear armed States but not against nuclear-armed States. And the two countries keeping the USA from starting WWIII? China and Russia.

    You guys should be thankful that both China and Russia help keep the USA from bombing the world to Kingdom Come.

  82. bayviking says:

    Let’s be clear. The rich control the world and love cheap labor, which China has an abundance of. The work of the laboring class generates real new wealth, unlike speculators, bankers and landlords for example. There are three great new wealth generators, farming, manufacturing and mining in which manufacturing provides most opportunities for big profit margins, except when a monopoly guarantees big profits

    US whining about Chinese economic domination is a natural consequence of the capitalist search for cheap labor. We want to dominate but have shot ourselves in the foot by moving most manufacturing to China, which has shifted capital accumulation to China. Threatening China militarily is a fools errand, since Apple, GM and hundreds of other companies would collapse into being owned and operated by China if we actually started that war. To this you have to add the consideration that we haven’t really won a war since WWII, in spite of winning almost every battle. We won WWII by becoming the greatest industrial manufacturer in the world, which never had to deal with a serious attack within our continental borders. When you no longer make enough steel to build and operate the world’s largest military machine, you have created an unsustainable monster that is self destructive.

    The US is doing what it always does, the bidding of the ruling class, and its working class is suffering. China is a dictatorship and the USA is an Oligarchy. The US, under Trump, has proven itself incapable of managing a pandemic. It has only itself to blame for its decline.

  83. jerryd says:

    “The deal was sealed over the objections of several EU countries – namely Italy, Spain, Poland, and Belgium – particularly regarding labor rights (China is alleged to be using slave labor).”
    “(Beijing) is said to be committing ‘cultural genocide’ against the Muslim Uyghur minority, complete with million-man-strong concentration camps. ”
    Regarding the first, (“alleged” to be using slave labor) take a look at Amendment XIII, ratified December 06, 1865, which states in Section 1: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” So slavery is legal and is practiced in the United States for the incarcerated. There are over 2 million persons in prison in the US , disproportionately minority (black/brown), and they are forced to work for pennies per hour for major US corporations. This is a quintuple win for the US.
    1)Incarcerating people for victimless crimes (as possession of marijuana) allows the government to tamp down the frustrations of the discriminated against minorities (black/brown).
    2)It is also a boon to the privatized prison industry – the more customers, the more federal dollars.
    3)And, of course, it is a win for the corporations which contract for prison labor at pennies on the dollar.
    4) Imprisoning more people reduces the number of persons counted as “unemployed”, thus keeping the Unemployment rate low.
    5) Once released from their sentence, the former prisoner finds that the US government prohibits him (or her) from all kinds of federal assistance. https://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/usa1104/3.htm

    Regarding the second, “(Beijing) is said” means Beijing is “accused”, but without the presentation of any evidence. The US accusing China of crimes against Muslims is rich given that the US has been bombing Muslim countries for 19 years, killing 100’s of thousands and forcing millions from their homes to foreign refugee camps.
    With the US, it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. The US routinely labels its chosen “enemies” with crimes it is itself committing.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Thanks: showmethereal
  84. Usury will still be paid through the (((Import Export Bank of China))). Hold on to your kippa, nothing is going to change.

  85. @Ugetit

    Excellent. As the sages have advised, “if you want to understand things properly, go to the creaters of the things you are unlearned about. Doesn’t matter what the subject is, music, art, mathematics, history,etc.

  86. Andrei says:
    @Showmethereal

    Theoretically, enough US pressure and blackmail. But practically I guess nothing. Basically the one thing I see the US having over Europe right now is its monopoly over Big Tech (Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Intel etc). Europe doesn’t have a homegrown alternative to these. The US could threaten Europe with cutting or limiting access to these, though, if pushed, Europe could create alternatives or, even worse for the US, develop them in conjunction with China.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  87. anon[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    If diversity mania ends up killing off Hollywood, it’d be the best thing to happen to America, and the world.

  88. anon[901] • Disclaimer says:
    @antibeast

    Don’t worry. Chinese tourists, businessmen, investors and students will likely spend their money elsewhere instead of the USA.

    I’m not worried for the US, it’s already dead or dying thanks to over a century of Jew control. I just don’t want to see my beloved Europe, especially Germany, die a similar painful death. They went through two painful wars to rid themselves of the menacing tribe, now thanks to their stupid craven elites, they’ll bring back the Jews plus all the negros, muslims, gays and Chindians. Together, these groups will finish them off as they are only capable of building selfish, greedy, dog-eat-dog, rude, loud, unpleasant, corrupt societies with ugly buildings and dirty streets.

    Europeans stand alone as the only people in the world who can create beautiful art, music, architecture, food, crafts, trains, cars, philosophy and the industrial revolution. Keep Europe for Europeans!

    • Agree: Alfred
    • LOL: showmethereal
  89. @Thulean Friend

    I don’t think EU parliament can prevent the signing of CAI, because Merkel’s term will not end until September 2021. The CAI will be ratified by that time.

  90. anon[901] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    This deal will only be okay if they stick to trading goods not people. Brexit might turn out to be the best thing for Europe. The UK is basically now Junited Kingdom. The most powerful family in the UK is the Rothschilds not the Royal Family, and has been for at least three centuries. Europe would also do well to keep away from Junited States. In fact, all of Anglosphere is now Jooglosphere, all turning into multicultural hellholes.

    Please wise up Europe, do not turn into another America! Do not let the Jews, negros, muslims, Latinos and Chindians invade your land! Look what these groups turned America into? Keep those people in their lands, never give them EU citizenship. Africans belong in Africa, Asians belong in Asia, Indians belong in India, Muslims and Jews belong in the Mideast/Central Asia, Latinos belong in Latin America. Keep Europe for Europeans!

    • Agree: blaqua
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  91. @anon

    Too bad, most Germans who arent Atlantik Brücke scum or crazed marxists know who really did us in.
    China/Russia/Iran will never be as bad as muttmerica/USSR.

    And beside, all of the big bad three don’t have nukes and mutt grunts permanently stationed in Germany. And none of them, even the jewssr, did the whole “denazification” shit.

    Death to muttmerica. What happened on wednesday was justice. trump is a filthy kike lover, always has been, and it was your only hope left.

    You are going to hell to stay with your kike loving, commie saving grandpas and kikes, while the Heroes of the Axis will laugh at you from Heaven.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  92. chris says:

    European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced the agreement with Trumpesque hyperbole, to not say fake news, gushing that China had just sealed a deal with “the largest single market in the world.” In fact, with Brexit the EU economy is now unambiguously the second-largest in the world, with a respectable nominal GDP of $18.3 trillion (as against the United States’ $21.2 trillion and China’s fast-growing $15.2 trillion).

    Great fact-check, Guilhaume, even though, in some sense (which she would never acknowledge) she might actually be right. If you subtract all the military spending and costs out of the GDP, then the US would probably lag behind the EU.

    The reason for doing that, is of course the fact that military (and deficit spending in general) should not be counted to GDP because its cost structure is arbitrary. If I give my cousin Jim-Bob a trillion of my personal currency to rake the leaves on my trees, I can’t really count that to my personal wealth.

    BTW, great footnotes! Had no idea about Georgia, though it certainly explains a lot.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  93. @antibeast

    It’s interesting how few brands the US has. Apple and a few others. Where these brands exist they manufacture in China. The Europeans more often manufacture in Europe.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  94. @Sean

    Isolation from Western technological inventions rather than economic containment is the secret to taking China down.

    This assumes that the west can only make those advances. It’s basically the 19th C idea that the Chinese were imitators. However the obsession about huawei 5G isn’t about security – these chips can’t transmit to China, that’s absurd, they can transmit within the circular radius. For 5G that’s just 1000 feet.

    It’s because they are better. The west has to engage in subterfuge and political shenanigans to thwart that.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
    , @Sean
  95. @anon

    East Asians at least appear quite capable of creating both economic and artistic values. In fact, I think it’s only fair to say that the societies built by such countries as China, Japan and the Koreas are now quite superior to the American and European states they once imitated in at least some ways. Some of those common to them all, others specific to each. Efficiency, orderliness and cleanness are certainly not beyond them.

    What is still true, however, is that no Asian society (or any other foreign to Europe) will ever be able to create a European culture. That, with its many and often unique virtues as well as flaws, is ours alone among the peoples of the world to build.

    That alone should be reason enough to preserve a European Europe. And also an American America.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @glib
  96. Davidoff says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    and a big chinese nuke might land in your big fat arse…!,,,

  97. @denk

    EU, FUKUS genocides in Iraq, Kosovo, LIbya, Syria, Yemen, Afghan..just to name a few.

    The EU had nothing to do with those, although some European states led the Libya invasion – one of those has now left the EU.

    • Replies: @denk
  98. @Eugene Norman

    The only thing muttmerica manufactures is goyim pacifying tech and soy powder food. And degenerate kike “movies” and porn.

  99. @Eugene Norman

    You know kosher style nepotism has taken over objective science after the (((west))) had to pull this shit off.
    No longer do they sneer at those “chinks”. They are trying every single underhanded shit in the books. They cant invest in their own populace either because the useful have fled to Asia and the ones stuck here have completely submitted to the also kike made ghetto nigger cultures (whose music isnt even good or hardcore like in the 90s anymore). The youth are more interested in becoming worthless shitskins than to have something concrete. Good, screw these peasants, more chances for me and my future family as lords over these sad lost sheeple.

    What do you know, (((parasites))) always kill their host in the end.

  100. @anon

    I thought I was the only one who thought it was disgusting that Disney made the new Star Wars hero a female. No wonder there is so much gender confusion in the US

  101. @anon

    You don’t seem to get it… German companies have huge amounts of investment in China…

  102. @frankie p

    Yes thanks. I just wondered what rules “Rosie” was referring to. I think the EU got burned enough with the US engineered smackdown and extortion of Alstom.

  103. denk says:
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    as China moves away from the nice guy act to Wolf Warrior diplomacy.

    Notice how the [[[five liars]]] get into a tizzy over this ‘Chinese belligerence’ ?

    Those uppity Chinese even dare to talk back when we try to civilise them !

    They dont even know their place !

    ———————-
    In that Arbuthnot article, about the attacks on sheeps….

    [MORE]

    in Iraq is why are they targeting sheep, and I really can’t come to a conclusion. It seems so irrational, but I wonder, is it just target practice, or is it their intention is to destroy the food chain? For these pastoral people, the sheep, the barley and the wheat they produce are everything. It’s so basic and nothing is wasted. They use the meat and they sell the excess. They use the leather. They use the wool. Every single bit of it is utilised. They boil down the bones for soup, for gelatine and for preserving. This is all they have.

    After the Gulf War even the date crop went wrong. Dates are just dates. They sit on top of a palm tree and just grow. You don’t spray them with anything or fertilise them. But there was no date crop for five years. The date harvest in Iraq is a big thing. They have nearly 600 different kinds of dates and they were the world’s biggest exporter. But they killed the date crop.

    Since then there has been the screwworm epidemic, foot and mouth disease, which are both non-endemic to that country. There are now reports of locusts—also non-endemic. It’s difficult to know what is going on, but what is certain is that there are diseases happening right across agriculture affecting flora and fauna, in Iraq that have never been seen before.

    Does it ring a bell ?
    The bio attack on China 2019…

    February 15, 2018: H7N4 bird flu. Sickened at least 1,600 people in China and killed more than 600. Many chickens killed. China needs to purchase US poultry products.
    June, 2018: H7N9 bird flu. Many chickens killed. China needs to purchase US poultry products.
    August, 2018: outbreak of African swine flu. Same strain as Russia, from Georgia. Millions of pigs killed. China needs to purchase US pork products.
    May 24, 2019: massive infestation of armyworms in 14 province-level regions in China, which destroy most food crops. Quickly spread to more than 8,500 hectares of China’s grain production. They produce astonishing numbers of eggs. China needs to purchase US agricultural products – corn, soybeans.
    December, 2019: Coronavirus appearance puts China’s economy on hold.
    January, 2020: China is hit by a “highly pathogenic” strain of bird flu in Hunan province. Many chickens died, many others killed. China needs to purchase US poultry products.

    [army worm are native to North America

    Also,
    The author didnt mention, just like Iraq, there’s also locusts attack during that avalanche of ‘coincidences’, luckily the Chinese handled it with their signatory efficiency]

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/no_author/chinas-coronavirus-a-shocking-update-did-the-virus-originate-in-the-us/

    FUKUS/NATO attacks on target countries have a declared doctrine…
    ‘If we punish the civilians enough, it’d push them to a revolution, a DIY regime change’

    Their typical MO. is to attack civilians, infrastructures, hospitals, water plants, power stations, sewerage plants.

    As if that wasnt enough, IN their attacks on Iraq and China, It’d seem that [[[they]]] were trying to destroy the food chain !

    China and all those victims of western barbarity should really gang up and bring these [email protected]#$%^ to court.

  104. @antibeast

    I agree with most of your comment – but German companies have huge investment into R&D in China. See companies like SAP and BASF…. Also Audi/BMW/Mercedes have lots of production in China – so it’s not just low value.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  105. denk says:
    @Eugene Norman

    EU had a big role in the killing of ex Yugo, also in the gang rape on Iraq if Im not mistaken.
    France was up to its ears in Libya,…
    with Washington leading from behind.

    IN any case, EU are ganging up with the [[[five liars]]] in those ‘human rights’ shit shows in the UN, slandering China over the Uighurs, Tibet, HK etc etc

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  106. blaqua says:

    The EU sold its soul to the devils. I couldn’t expect anything different from a union that doesn’t defend its people’s interests and the European values, sells off ports and other invaluable territories to Chinese and keeps proudly parroting about ‘democratic values’, ‘gender equality’ and ‘freedom of speech’. China and President Xi are having a good laugh at the EU circus!

    ‘I suppose von der Leyen’s transparently false statement was made based on contrived interpretations of the word “single,” as if the U.S. economy did not form a “single market.”’

    She likes larking!

    • Replies: @antibeast
  107. antibeast says:
    @anon

    Chindians? You’re so confused.

    I don’t know about Indians but Chinese immigrants number less than 1 million in the whole of Europe with most of them clustering in a few cities such as London, Paris, Milan, etc. As I wrote in my earlier post, Chinese immigrants from all over the world have been moving back to China over the last ten years or so as the center of the global economy has shifted East from the West. The return ratio of Chinese students in the USA is now 80/20 with 80% moving back to China within five years of graduation. Even the number of Chinese students are declining rapidly in the USA as more Chinese students opt to study in BRI and RCEP countries. Same with Chinese tourists, businessmen, investors, companies, etc.

    I fully agree with you that Europe should remain European. This EU-China investment deal will ensure that Chinese companies invest in Europe to hire Europeans instead of Chinese people moving into Europe thus displacing Europeans. This deal also opens up China further for EU investors to serve the Chinese market, especially in service industries such as hospitality, property, retail, healthcare, finance, professional and business services, etc. This deal also includes provisions to protect their IP, remove the technology transfer requirement for foreign investors, level the playing field for foreign-invested enterprises, etc. By the way, this deal is an investment agreement rather than a trade deal. All in all, a good deal for both parties.

  108. @utu

    China is a capital exporter as the Chinese have a high saving rate. The USA is a capital importer because they have a low saving rate. To get any benefit from capital importation, you must have a trade deficit otherwise you’re just donating to foreign investors.

    It’s not the fault of the Chinese that the USA wastes it’s borrowed money on wars of aggression. [email protected]

  109. antibeast says:
    @blaqua

    The EU sold its soul to the devils. I couldn’t expect anything different from a union that doesn’t defend its people’s interests and the European values, sells off ports and other invaluable territories to Chinese and keeps proudly parroting about ‘democratic values’, ‘gender equality’ and ‘freedom of speech’. China and President Xi are having a good laugh at the EU circus!

    What are you babbling about here? This EU-China deal facilitates two-way investment for both EU and Chinese companies. European values? Keep those ‘democratic values’, ‘gender equality’, ‘freedom of speech’ away from China!!! And please tell your own politicians and journalists to stop meddling in Chinese affairs in HK, Xinjiang, Taiwan, etc.!!!

    Chinese run China, Europeans run Europe!!! PERIOD!!!

    • Replies: @blaqua
  110. These Jews first fire up the ‘neo-nazis’ in Ukraine to pull off a coup and fight the Russians.

    But then, these Jews condemn the ‘neo-nazis’ for being nazis.

    But, LOL, the ‘neo-nazis’ say the Judeo-Nazis must repent for the holocaust against the Ukrainians during communism. What a shi* show.

    https://christiansfortruth.com/ukrainian-demonstrators-demand-jews-apologize-and-repent-for-communism-and-the-holodomor-genocide/

    Jews call for War on Terror against Alqaeda but then also recruit Alqaeda to attack Syria.

    Jews call for New Cold War on Russia by recruiting Ukrainian ‘neo-nazis’ but then condemn them as well. What a bunch of lunatics.

    • Replies: @Malla
  111. anon[116] • Disclaimer says:

    For Trump and the right, China has replaced Iran as the new scapegoat for Jew. They are kicking China with all their might, evil China is not just the origin of Covid19 but also steal our technology, spy on us and now are behind the election fraud. Everything wrong under the sun is China’s fault. But don’t you dare say a word about the Jew.

    This goes from Trump to Pompeo, Josh Hawley to Tom Cotton, Tucker Carlson to Ann Coulter, Sidney Powell to Lin Wood, Breitbart to Zerohedge to Townhall, to all the Trump worshippers on Gab.com. Jew owned Breitbart is particularly vicious, with a daily column dedicated to China bashing, and every mention of China must be preceded by the word “Communist”, every mention of coronavirus must be preceded by “Chinese” and so on. The Jews like to keep the attention on someone else so people wouldn’t notice what they’re doing. And Trump supporters and the right fall for the red herring like red meat. Even Tucker Carlson and Ann Coulter. Pathetic.

  112. anon[116] • Disclaimer says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    Spoken like a true Jew. Judeo-Christian my eye. There is no such thing. Jews and Christians do not worship the same God. How many more wars will you and your ilk inflict upon the world? Why won’t you people just go exterminate yourselves already, or must you make us do it? This time we will do it right.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Temporary Insanity
  113. sally says:
    @Priss Factor

    What makes so little sense, is the USA has decided to destroy all competition where ever it appears, and at the same time to use copyright and patent law to maintain its monopoly powered dominance over global commerce. Big bad monopoly powered USA uses it rule of law created copyrights and patents to deny every day Americans <=who don't think like greedy fools to direct all wealth the economy generates into the hands of a few. Unless the USA somehow brings the deplorable Americans into their king of the mountain game, the USA will most certainly fail. The article is on track: China, Russian, Iran, N Korea, and Venezuela are all going to continue to expand <=their technology developments and they are going to continue to out perform the USA (because no one in the USA is allowed to develop anything <= due to copyright and patent laws) that includes the governed deplorable in every one one of the Western partners of the corrupt management of the USA.

    I am reminded of the great big divide that began in about 1550 in Europe. The feudal king made feudal grants (vast swarfs of land and the right to govern the resources, occupants and uses of those grants) to a person in favor to the King. That person became a feudal lord of the feudal estate. Problem was, the feudal kings lost most of their power as they were forced by the very persons they made the grants to; to accept the nation state. Why it happened because the feudal lords were all growing very rich at the expense of the serfs from their governorships over (feud grants) estates but the problem was there was no succession of that success to the personal heirs of the feudal lords, such powers belonged to the king, and kings change their mind or die. Why <=no succession; because there were no laws; without laws, there could be no succession of private property (deed, patent or copyright). Private, by its definition, means monopoly and unless that monopoly power in some form or another, can be willed to an heir or sold for a profit, it would soon lose its value and terminate. The power to grant, transfer, license or sell something requires that something have a monopoly power of some kind: price, quality, availability or deed, copyright or patent. When competition fails to provide that monopoly power (price, quality or availability) the oligarchs (derivatives of the feudal lords) use the state to create the monopoly powers they need and want. Well known monopoly powers created by states exercising their law writing powers create monopolies in land (privately owned real estates), create monopolies in inventions of derived from the minds of mankind (copyright and patent) and use them to become king of the mountain.

    [MORE]

    If there is a single crime against humanity; the first and foremost among them, would be, the use of the state to create private monopoly powers over previously public goods (real estate) or to create private monopolies over expressive inventions created from the minds of inventors, writers, and artist who are interacting with the public domain about them. …and… To make those monopoly powers <=both perpetual in time and portable from person to person, so that the wealthy, person or entity, can acquire and exploit the monopoly powers against all of mankind. This results in an economy in which a few (the monopoly power owners) own all, and everyone else either works for them or become dependent upon them.

    Deed book, Copyright and patent registration, makes the nation state into the keeper of the database that list monopoly powers owned by private parties. All the oligarch need do is search the government db bases for the technology they want and to buy it if they need it. But remember these monopoly powers were made by rule of law, but underlying article of value in private hands was created by mankind interacting with his habitat and work environment.

    In order to invent, write or draw it is necessary first to be educated, to be indoctrinated by public training (schools and the knowledge acquired by mankind from the past), public experience (citizenship), education (public or private), job (private serf-ship) and in order to own a private monopoly power it is first necessary that the nation state create and maintain a registration process (deed, patent and copyright). In order for the state to vest those registered monopoly powers (the California Gold Rush) in inventions created by the operation of a human mind with its environment, a rule must be made and its enforcement assured, that allows that mind:environment interactive result to become privatized by the attachment to it of a monopoly power. The economic nice thing about monopoly power attachments is that the right to use the underlying article is exclusive to the owner of the registration ,and portable and transportable so its private owner can shop its monopoly power around the world without leaving home. (Aside: the USA could not have stolen the American Industrial Might without first creating the copyright and patent laws).

    Without a state there can be no law, and without law it is impossible to generate monopoly powers from hot thin or cold dense air or from the facts on the ground. from the nation state comes the loss of democracy, the conversion of public into private, the enforcement of privates rights in laws of trespass and infringement backed by armed nation state protection embedded deep in judgement and punishment for infringements or trespass. Without the state there can be no sustainable monopoly power. Without monopoly power there can be no privately owned anything .

    anyway after the state replaced the king, and the heirs of the feudal lords because the wealthy educated and professional classes; the left out heirs, and a number of people ventured out, formed corporations so that the feudal lords now Aristocrats could provide the capital to exploit the private property rights made possible to them by the rule of law. Copyrights and patents were sold in coffee houses throughout Europe for hundreds of years (in those days, people invested directly in the patent, deed or copyright); later these greedy Land Barons discovered even better returns on their investments could be had if they pooled their investments, so corporations developed (think W and E Indies Companies), and the corporations ventured in the foreign lands but they discovered they needed the power and protection of the nation state to exploit the entrenched parties in those foreign lands, so the nation states were enticed to colonize the foreign lands of interest to the greedy corporations.

    But as technology improved copyright and patent monopolies allowed the corporations to own it. In time the corporations became more wealthy and powerful than the private real estate property owners (feudal estate owners) and so the corporations took control of the legislatures, and appointed to run the state politicians of their choice.

    This is the today the problem and believe me it is a global problem for all of governed humanity. A few Oligarchs own the few Corporations that own all of the technology, all of the money, all of the politicians who operate the nation states, and all of the wealth in the world.

  114. @Bit Def

    The countries in Eastern Europe exposed to Russia will find it very difficult to give up on US and rely solely on European vain promises of support and Russian promises of peace. And also, if the EU bureaucrats and Frau Merkel think they can talk to China from an equal position, on their own, then they are delusional as fuck.

    You sound just like the ignorant American lady in the video. If you can’t be bothered to watch the entire video, start from 6 minutes. If Greece can negotiate on equal terms with China, Germany will have ZERO problems.

  115. glib says:
    @John Regan

    Good comment. In my hometown in Italy, we have had a large Chinese contingent since at least WW2. They prospered making and selling leather goods. I was shocked, in 2012, entering a bar in town, to hear the Chinese barista speaking excellent dialect (incomprehensible to other Italians since it is apparently the only langue d’oc dialect in Italy). They mixed without a problem.

    A second wave started in the 1990s. In my village, they now own all 3 bars. Hard working, easy to talk to people. Who would you rather have on your side, a southern evangelical? Indeed, I think Italians will find a lot of allies among immigrant groups if and when there is conflict.

  116. Anonymous[417] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    In case you didn’t notice, Merkel deliberately invited *millions* of blacks – Syrians and the rest *are* blacks – into the heart of the EU.
    The EU encouraged it.

  117. Anonymous[417] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    I can assure you that no *real* white European absolutely gives a shit about the Uighurs, and whatever happens to them. In exactly the same way that no one of true European blood gives a shit about the Rohingya. It’s something very very deep and instinctual – we simply don’t care, psychologically it simply doesn’t register with us. You might as well kick the shit out of a bag of sand, for all we empathise… But true whites *do* have tremendous sympathy for dogs. Go figure. If the Chinese are perplexed about the white ethnic character, this is a important marker for you.

    Warning:

    If you do see an ostensible white passing verbal wind about the Uighurs, you can count on one of these two things being true. Firstly, although he might look white, on the face of it, genetically he is not a real European. Secondly, he is politically motivated by an anti Chinese animus, is using the Uighurs as a tool, and most likely is being *PAID* to do so.

  118. Sean says:
    @Eugene Norman

    If they can make those advances themselves then they ought to have no objection to being required to actually doing so, should they? I mean if the Chinese ever came up with what they believed to be a real advance over anything in the West then they would clearly have the right to sell us their technology or not sell it to us. The US has the right to not buy foreign technology, just like us walking 0ut a shop without buying anything, or never going in a shop because we just don’t like that shop. We are under no obligation to prove that the goods for sale are objectively bad before we reject them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/apr/20/war-what-is-it-good-for-ian-morris

    PROBABLY the most important question in the whole of military history” – why did China not keep its early lead in firearms ? – he dismisses Victor Davis Hanson’s argument that a longstanding western cultural stance towards rationalism, free inquiry and the dissemination of knowledge led Europe to forge ahead, and prefers the simpler answer that Europeans got good at guns because they fought a lot and that the topography of Europe encouraged its population to invest in guns.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Anon
  119. antibeast says:
    @showmethereal

    I agree with most of your comment – but German companies have huge investment into R&D in China. See companies like SAP and BASF…. Also Audi/BMW/Mercedes have lots of production in China – so it’s not just low value.

    SAP is a software company which requires them to localize and/or develop software products, enterprise applications and cloud services customized for the Chinese market. BASF is a chemicals company which did establish its first R&D center in China in 2012. Before then, BASF only had manufacturing facilities in China. See below:

    https://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i47/Last-BASF-Goes-Big-RD.html

    The German auto companies VW/BMW/Daimler-Benz have JVs with Chinese SOEs in China where they manufacture German-designed autos based on technology transfer agreements. The Germans (as well as other Europeans) have been complaining for decades about this technology transfer requirement. This new EU-China investment deal does away with this requirement in foreign-invested manufacturing sectors. But the Germans still do their R&D in Germany not in China. And I expect that to continue.

    The Chinese authorities have long ago concluded that manufacturing something you don’t own is a losing proposition. That’s why Chinese economic planners want to foster technology companies in emerging industries like electric vehicles (EVs). TESLA was allowed to open its wholly-owned factory in Shanghai without being required to transfer its technology nor form a join venture with a Chinese SOE. That’s because TESLA is a technology not a manufacturing company; its value derives from its technological innovations not from its product manufacturing.

    China knows that its days as the world’s factory for low-cost manufacturing is over. This new EU-China investment deal allows EU companies to invest in technology industries without any requirement for technology transfer. The EU investors get to invest in R&D and own all the IP that comes out of that R&D in China. That’s the name of the new game: technology.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  120. @anon

    You’re a moron! A Jesus loving Christian would not be belligerent enough to start using weapons of mass destruction but wrongly named Judeo-Christian crowd would. Which of these makes me a Jew?

  121. @Showmethereal

    China and the EU each have more consumers than the U.S., but their purchasing power on international markets (and those of European business and governments) are inferior because nominal GDP.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @showmethereal
  122. Moi says:
    @Priss Factor

    and what about European colonialism in Africa and the Muslim world…….???

  123. John Hagan says: • Website
    @Justvisiting

    Cheers .. great comment and very thoughtfull.

  124. blaqua says:
    @antibeast

    You misinterpret what I wrote! I don’t consider ‘democratic values’ (by ‘democratic’ I’m referring to modern democracy, not the one in ancient Greece) or ‘gender equality’ as being European values. I said that the EU keeps priding upon being a defender of such values, while disregarding the interests of the European people.

    ‘please tell your own politicians and journalists to stop meddling in Chinese affairs in HK, Xinjiang, Taiwan, etc.’
    Non sequitur and also none of my politicians meddle in Chinese affairs and please tell Chinese to stop LYING, spreading viruses and diseases, buying foreign ports and trapping other countries, such as Sri Lanka, into debt! As to your last remarks, Chinese patriots run China, but Europe, at least the EU, is run by traitors bootlicking China. I don’t because I boycott Made In China products as much as possible and support local economy. 🙂

    • Replies: @antibeast
  125. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    I mean if the Chinese ever came up with what they believed to be a real advance over anything in the West then they would clearly have the right to sell us their technology or not sell it to us. The US has the right to not buy foreign technology, just like us walking 0ut a shop without buying anything, or never going in a shop because we just don’t like that shop. We are under no obligation to prove that the goods for sale are objectively bad before we reject them.

    But that’s not what the US Deep State has done to Huawei. It not only banned Huawei from the USA as well as banned US companies from doing business with Huawei but the US Deep State coerced foreign companies as well as forced foreign countries not to do business with Huawei or risk being sanctioned by the USA. The US Deep State even conspired with HSBC to frame the Huawei CFO who happens to be the daughter of the Huawei Founder for alleged “fraud” in misrepresenting Huawei’s ties to a HK company caught doing business with Iran.

    These gangster-style tactics are employed by the US Deep State all over the world — assassinating political opponents, overthrowing foreign governments, subverting foreign countries, sabotaging foreign companies — even though Huawei itself hasn’t done any harm nor cause any loss to the USA.

    The oft-cited reason is national security but the underlying cause is simpler and more banal: Anglo-American ‘sour grapes’. Just like the case of Toshiba and Japanese autos before Huawei, the Anglo-Americans running the US Deep State were shocked to discover that the Chinese could come up with their own world-class 4G/5G technology which beat everyone else to the pulp. Now the Anglo-Americans are desperately trying to derail China’s technological progress by sabotaging the supply-chains of Chinese tech firms such as Huawei.

    But the biggest loser will be US tech companies which would miss out on the Chinese market as Chinese companies — whether State-owned or privately-funded, foreign-invested or locally-owned — and their foreign partners shun US technology in favor of Chinese or foreign technology that has absolutely no ties to the USA. What’s going to happen to Silicon Valley when US tech companies lose their biggest customer in the global market? After all, Silicon Valley without the Silicon is yet another California suburb of high-priced homes.

  126. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    No, it will always be bad. That is why monarchies are all failures. The chance of shit next in line is way too high.

    But when your next in line is out of 100 million choices and super high requirements just to enter the pool of 100 million. Now that fucking makes sense.

  127. antibeast says:
    @blaqua

    Non sequitur and also none of my politicians meddle in Chinese affairs and please tell Chinese to stop LYING, spreading viruses and diseases, buying foreign ports and trapping other countries, such as Sri Lanka, into debt!

    You’ve just contradicted yourself in one sentence. Sri Lanka is a Sovereign Nation-State. You have no business telling the Sri Lankans how to conduct their foreign relations with China. Sri Lankans alone have that right, you are not Sri Lankan. Intiendes?

    What do you mean by “LYING”? The President of the USA was caught by a US journalist LYING to the US public by concealing his knowledge of how deadly and viral the Covid-19 virus really was after being duly informed by US intelligence in early January of 2020. That’s a well-documented FACT.

    Buying ports? You mean the one in Greece? Here’s a video posted in #155 which clearly explained how the Chinese bought the port in Greece:

    Are you saying the Greeks don’t have the right to decide for themselves while YOU have the right to tell them how to conduct their foreign relations with the Chinese? Isn’t that meddling in the affairs of foreign countries such as Greece and Sri Lanka?

    • Replies: @blaqua
  128. h5mind says:

    This is the moment Joe Biden realizes his new boss is China, not the American people. Be careful what you wish for, Joe!

  129. @Andrei

    Good points… I saw actually in December where the EU wants to develop it’s own advanced semiconductors. The restrictions against Huawei and other Chinese companies has seemed to spur the EU to want to be independent from the US also (not as publicized is South Korean companies are doing the same thing). How ironic. Almost everything Navaroo and Lightizer and the rest of Trump’s team tried – caused the exact opposite.

    https://www.eetimes.eu/eu-signs-e145bn-declaration-to-develop-next-gen-processors-and-2nm-technology/

  130. @anon

    “Europeans stand alone as the only people in the world who can create beautiful art, music, architecture, food, crafts, trains, cars, philosophy…..”

    That is totally subjective. In the 19th and earliest 20th century I love European architecture. Any other periods – no not better. All the other stuff you listed – I very much disagree. I love Italian and Greek food and find French food decent… But better than the rest of the world??? Not at all. Cars – yes.

    Art/music/crafts/trains/philosophy —- no/no/no/no/no… That is your subjective taste.

    I will agree with no doubt – the most desirable cars are indeed Europeans — (best bang for the buck would be found in Asia – though admittedly they hire a lot of European engineers and designers)…..

    Last – I have no problem with you saying “keep Europe for Europeans”. No problem… As long as you compel the European diaspora to return to Europe and give back lands they took. New Zealand seems humble though – so maybe they could stay – lol.

  131. @chris

    By PPP – the EU is bigger than the US. US has the larger economy by nominal GDP but the EU is the larger market when you are talking actual goods and services in exchange rate parity.

    • Thanks: chris
  132. blaqua says:
    @antibeast

    China has set a debt trap in Sri Lanka and as a result the major Magampura port will be Chinese for 99 years following a leasing deal between the two countries. This serves as an example of the Red Dragon’s power at suffocating and swallowing other territories.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magampura_Mahinda_Rajapaksa_Port
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy#Pakistan

    By ‘lying’, I mean that the CCP is constantly lying about the pandemic and so many other matters and is generally a very untrustworthy and selfish partner. I’d prefer the EU and the world to have business deals with Russia and India than with the Chinese who have benefited tremendously from the West’s decades-old outsourcing.

    The Greek and Sri Lankan TRAITORS have the right to sell off their state-owned assets to the Chinese, who have become the Jews of the 21st century. They infiltrate everywhere, all social strata and are impervious to criticism in the Western media.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  133. Sean says:

    The US is a sovereign country When decides on how it will interact with a foreign country, the United States of America behaves as a unified entity, like an individual does with other individuals, including when declining to treat for the purchase of goods from a vendor who is not trusted. Of course the individual may have contending impulses and his decision for not trusting a vendor may be for a reasons that lies very deep in his unconscious and have nothing to do with the quality of the goods.

    You liken the US actions towards allies to separate them from China to “gangster tactics”, which is an apple and oranges argument because a gangster operates clandestinely against the law of the country in which he is, and is not the government of it acting openly. Still, you will understand that when someone joins the mafia as a ‘made’ member, they swear an oath that makes other members benevolent blood brothers, and provides a huge advantage against rivals who are not made members . However, it is not all one way there are stipulated rules and punishments for those who become made members of the mafia.

    In January 2020, Britain announced it was going to to give China’s Huawei the contract to build the UK’s 5g system then changed its mind when the US said if Britain went ahead its privileged access to secret US intel and surveillance information would be ended. South Korea can keep on with its semiconductor sales to Huawei and other Chinese companies, but the US can stop defending South Korea from Xi pet Kim. Germany is something similar with their capital goods sakes to China while spending a low proportion of their wealth on defending themselves. The US (taxpayer) is giving these countries something as part of a deal, in a deal you have to give agree to give something to get what you want. If they want to make money selling to China, then they don’t continue to get free protection from America. If American protection is considered worthless by South Korea ECT then those countries can go ahead an do whatever they want. But they can’t have it both ways.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  134. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    So what you’re saying is that the US Deep State treats its allies as if they’re part of a “protection racket” — we’ll protect you but you pay us with your sovereignty. That sounds like a Mafia to me.

    In the case of TSMC which is based in Taiwan which has no US military bases, the US Deep State forbade TSMC from doing business with Huawei lest they be subjected to US sanctions. Originally, the US Deep State forbade only semiconductor chips made with at least 20% US technology. But most semiconductor chips made by TSMC sold to Huawei contained less than 20% US technology. So the US Deep State lowered the threshold to 10% but Huawei still managed to design its semiconductor chips with less than 10% US technology. The US Deep State finally gave up and issued an order saying that any semiconductor made by TSMC can not be sold to Huawei even if it contains ZERO US technology because some of their semiconductor equipment used to make those chips come from US suppliers (Applied Materials, Lam Research, etc.). Now, there are lots of semiconductor suppliers to TSMC with some even from China. And yet, the US Deep State felt that they could force TSMC to commit an illegal act to maliciously sabotage the supply-chain of Huawei.

    In response, Huawei has started its own semiconductor fabrication business to produce optoelectronic components for its network equipment business. Most of its other telecom businesses will survive intact but Huawei had to give up its smartphone, PC and server lines of business as they rely on chipsets made by foreign companies including US tech companies. But Huawei doesn’t need to be in those commodity hardware businesses anyway because it is fundamentally a technology not a manufacturing company. Huawei has already proven its technology leadership, having dominated 5G technology with the most 5G patents in the world for the past ten years. Huawei can make billions of dollars just by collecting royalties from its arsenal of 5G patents from smartphone manufacturers, mobile operators and service providers.

    With the release of HarmonyOS, Huawei is now setting its sights to even bigger heights which would put it in the same league as Microsoft, Google and Apple. Huawei has now proven its technology leadership again in Operating System (OS) software with its latest HarmonyOS release which is possibly the first commercially available Distributed OS with an advanced micro-kernel architecture offering secure software environments for data, applications and services, portable across a wide variety of consumer devices such as smartphones, TVs, PCs, speakers, watches, etc.

    The US Deep State tried to kill Huawei but the opposite has happened because Huawei’s HarmonyOS will now be competing against Microsoft’s WindowsOS, Google’s AndroidOS and Apple’s iOS. That’s a far lucrative business for Huawei than making Android smartphones, Windows PCs and Intel servers.

  135. antibeast says:
    @blaqua

    China has set a debt trap in Sri Lanka and as a result the major Magampura port will be Chinese for 99 years following a leasing deal between the two countries. This serves as an example of the Red Dragon’s power at suffocating and swallowing other territories.

    I don’t think you understand the concept of ‘debt trap’ which is what happened to the Third World in the 70s, 80s and 90s when they borrowed loans from the WB, IMF and other Western banking/financial institutions which they couldn’t repay because those loans ended up getting stolen by corrupt officials in those countries.

    China is building infrastructure projects for Sri Lanka, Pakistan and other BRI countries with loans backed by Chinese State-owned Banks. In most cases, China requires a State guarantee before it agrees to building those infrastructure projects. It’s not a ‘debt trap’ because Sri Lanka did get its sea port which is now leased to China in order to pay back the loan used to build the port. In other words, China is helping Sri Lanka pay back its loans by leasing the port which it built. It may take a while before the sea port becomes economically viable but that financial risk has now been passed to China. Same concept applies to the Gwadar port in Pakistan which is part of the CPEC. More maritime traffic from China and other Asian countries will use these ports after they’ve been completed. Then and only then will Sri Lanka, Pakistan, etc. start receiving income from the operation of the sea port.

    By ‘lying’, I mean that the CCP is constantly lying about the pandemic and so many other matters and is generally a very untrustworthy and selfish partner. I’d prefer the EU and the world to have business deals with Russia and India than with the Chinese who have benefited tremendously from the West’s decades-old outsourcing.

    When did China “LIE” to the world? All it did was to withhold information until it was verified. But they did release information about the Covid-19 virus when Chinese scientists finally sequenced its DNA. And as for ‘outsourcing’, most EU manufacturers set up factories in China to serve the Chinese market. As for the EU doing business in China, that’s because China is their biggest market outside the EU!!!

    The Greek and Sri Lankan TRAITORS have the right to sell off their state-owned assets to the Chinese, who have become the Jews of the 21st century. They infiltrate everywhere, all social strata and are impervious to criticism in the Western media.

    Since when did the Chinese ‘infiltrate’ everywhere? China announced to the world that it was launching its BRI. That’s not ‘infiltration’ but proclamation. And guess what? Everybody (except a few jealous countries) signed up because they knew their countries would benefit from China building up their infrastructure along the BRI. There are hardly any Chinese people living in those BRI countries, much less ‘infiltrate’ all ‘social strata’, which is a lunatic idea. If there is anyone impervious to criticism, it’s Westerners like YOU who keep meddling in the affairs of Sovereign Nation-States such as Sri Lanka and Greece, even when you’re not a legal party to those commercial transactions between two Sovereign Nation-States.

    • Replies: @blaqua
  136. Anon[250] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    I mean if the Chinese ever came up with what they believed to be a real advance over anything in the West then they would clearly have the right to sell us their technology or not sell it to us.

    That is sort of what happened during Roman times. China imposed an export ban on its steel weapons but they got smuggled out anyway, eventually reaching the Persians, who were able to use them to defeat the Romans:

    • Replies: @Sean
  137. blaqua says:
    @antibeast

    Sri Lanka has been drawn into China’s trap and now a major port of the Indian Ocean is Chinese for 99 YEARS! The CCP knew very well the country won’t be able to pay the associated debt. If that’s not debt trap to you, then you are a Chinese sheep.

    ‘When did China “LIE” to the world? ‘
    China has kept lying about the pandemic since the very beginning and only Chinese bootlickers deny that. The fact that EA countries like Japan and Korea, where use of masks is customary, record every day hundreds or thousands of cases, while China records none or one (official total still at 87,364!) is proof that the CCP is making fun of the rest of us. Wuhan virus is on rampage in China and yet President Xi and his ilk paint a different picture. Their might and world domination allow them to be extremely provocative and sneerful, because they know they can get away with such pathetic attitude.

    ‘Since when did the Chinese ‘infiltrate’ everywhere?’
    Chinese sellers, big and small, are literally infiltrating every market offline or online and every foreign tradesman seems to have dealings with Chinese, as tons of so many items are manufactured in China, a trend that has been going on since the 80s. They should be described as the Jews of this century acquiring tons of businesses in Europe (during the pandemic, increase in purchase of hotels & restaurants by Chinese due to drop in prices) and elsewhere rivaling everyone, from the proletariat and small-time tradesman to the capitalist, they are a threat to everyone.

    ‘it’s Westerners like YOU’
    Ridiculous ad hominem arguments. I’m not American, I’m from Eastern Europe. Stop thinking that only some people in the West don’t view favorably the planet’s increasing enslaving sinicization.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  138. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    So what you’re saying is that the US Deep State treats its allies as if they’re part of a “protection racket” — we’ll protect you but you pay us with your sovereignty. That sounds like a Mafia to me.

    Germany, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are profitably trading with China), while also getting preferential access to the American market by appealing to the Pentagon. So the US taxpayer is meeting the cost of defending countries that are aiding China in its deindustrializing of the entire West and the enrichment of its elites. Germany, Japan, South Korea ECT are taking the US for a fool. Why would anyone not expect the former Axis powers to not turn the relationship to their advantage in just the way they have done. China and its collaborators in the Western elite and just waited out Trumps term.

    With Biden’s election the economic rape of the West is set to continue for the foreseeable future and probably past the point of no return for US primacy. Britain under Boris Johnson is Biden has openly said that China is no competition for the US, so we know with him as President the hollowing out of America will continue. Understand that Trump was seriously rich when he entered politics. Characters like the Senator from America’s corporate capital Wilmington Delaware (Biden) come into Congress penniless and leave as multi millionaires. As VP Biden flew on the White House plane to China and his son went along and negotiated himself some nice contracts. These people will get paid off and happily lick the boots of the Chinese. I think China is going to grow a little bit too fast for the media to hide what is going on, but the people will be powerless to affect policy in time because there will ne no suitable politician; Trump was a one off character.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @nokangaroos
  139. Sean says:
    @Anon

    The Emperor Valerian was captured because plague devastated his army. Plagues and Peoples by historian William H. McNeill explained how trade along the Silk Road led diseases from China (measles probably) arriving in an deadly pandemic that began the decline of Rome into a long dark age . Three of Ian Morris’ s Five Horsemen are already present

    I think we are seeing the begining of the end for the West.

  140. antibeast says:
    @blaqua

    Sri Lanka has been drawn into China’s trap and now a major port of the Indian Ocean is Chinese for 99 YEARS! The CCP knew very well the country won’t be able to pay the associated debt.

    No, China is leasing the port which still belongs to Sri Lanka. And Sri Lanka is off the hook because there is no debt on its balance sheet. China ‘invested’ in the port by building it without any funds being committed by Sri Lanka which would benefit from any income stream generated from future trade made possible by the port. China plans for the long-term not the short-term. And those maritime traffic will come as Gwadar Port comes online in the next few years.

    The fact that EA countries like Japan and Korea, where use of masks is customary, record every day hundreds or thousands of cases, while China records none or one (official total still at 87,364!) is proof that the CCP is making fun of the rest of us. Wuhan virus is on rampage in China and yet President Xi and his ilk paint a different picture.

    There are people in the USA who still believe to this day that the Covid-19 pandemic is a hoax and that the high numbers of infected victims as reported in the USA are faked. One of those people happens to be the President of the USA. If you believe those people, then China’s low numbers are real. So who’s LYING?

    Chinese sellers, big and small, are literally infiltrating every market offline or online and every foreign tradesman seems to have dealings with Chinese, as tons of so many items are manufactured in China, a trend that has been going on since the 80s. They should be described as the Jews of this century acquiring tons of businesses in Europe (during the pandemic, increase in purchase of hotels & restaurants by Chinese due to drop in prices) and elsewhere rivaling everyone, from the proletariat and small-time tradesman to the capitalist, they are a threat to everyone.

    Now I see where you’re coming from. The Yellow Peril Syndrome. Despite the fact that Chinese immigrants number less than 1 million in Europe and despite the fact that European companies have invested far more in China than the other way around, you’re panicking because of Chinese traders or European online sellers buying stuff from China. You’re right about that trend which started in the 80s but the online trend started only in the 2000s. The problem with your observation is that it’s out of date because Chinese labor costs have risen which has prompted lots of manufacturers (both Chinese or foreign) to relocate their factories to lower-cost locations in Southeast Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, Mexico, Latin America, etc. As for Chinese investors buying up small businesses in Europe, you’re wrong because most Chinese immigrants have been moving back to China due to its booming economy. The big Chinese companies are expanding abroad, such as Huawei, Alibaba, etc.

    Stop thinking that only some people in the West don’t view favorably the planet’s increasing enslaving sinicization.

    Tsk, tsk, tsk. You’ve just confirmed your “Yellow Peril” paranoia. Nothing China does is good for you while everything China does is bad for the world. But the countries who benefit from Chinese-built infrastructure have elected to partner with China while the consumers who benefit from cheap Chinese goods have voted with their pocketbooks. You remind me of posters here who can’t accept the reality of China’s contribution to the world. All they do all day is to wallow in self-pity while cursing China.

    • Agree: d dan, GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @blaqua
  141. Shelley says:

    “EU values” are aligned with China, NWO, Soros, who is a British national.

    China offers the slave wages of communism, along with the iron curtain, for the Troika Landromat now available to the world.

    HSBC and the usual Money Laundering banks are fully invested in One Belt initiative for China to take over the world.

    “China’s global economic ambitions require help, and it’s entirely appropriate for the United Kingdom to offer it”
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/12/20/david-cameron-didnt-just-sell-out-to-china/

    “By the end of 2002, the UK invested in 3406 projects in China, with a contracted amount of US$ 19.6 billion and an implemented input of about US$10.7 billion.”
    http://archive.md/RHvT

    UK and China in bed
    https://asiahouse.org/event/uk-belt-road-initiative-strategy/

    What people don’t understand is that the Troika, now CCP, Landromat is managed out of the City of London.

    Spiders Web

    Britain rules the world of tax havens, the Queen is warned.
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/07/britain-tax-havens-queen-secrecy-justice-network

    • Replies: @Xi-Jinping
  142. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    Germany, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are profitably trading with China), while also getting preferential access to the American market by appealing to the Pentagon. So the US taxpayer is meeting the cost of defending countries that are aiding China in its deindustrializing of the entire West and the enrichment of its elites. Germany, Japan, South Korea ECT are taking the US for a fool. Why would anyone not expect the former Axis powers to not turn the relationship to their advantage in just the way they have done. China and its collaborators in the Western elite and just waited out Trumps term.

    Sorry but you’re barking up the wrong tree.

    Germany, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, etc. took advantage of their market access to the USA which was facilitated by the WTO, NAFTA, etc. but which had nothing to do with the Pentagon. The US Deep State wanted to appease the Pentagon by allowing US ‘allies’ such as Japan to rip-off the USA by living off the US military instead of paying for their own national defense. That’s true for NATO as well because the Europeans were happy to live off the US military so they could get their national defense for free while keeping US companies out of the EU market. In the meantime, Germany and Japan get to export their cars to the USA while keeping US cars out of the EU and Japan.

    As for outsourcing of manufacturing by US multinationals, China has seen them come and go during the last 20 years. As China’s labor costs have risen, US multinationals have been relocating their factories to lower-cost countries in Southeast Asia, Mexico, Latin America, Africa, et. That’s a US problem which has nothing to do with China.

    Biden has openly said that China is no competition for the US, so we know with him as President the hollowing out of America will continue.

    China’s only interest in being ‘friendly’ to the Bidens is to keep the USA from starting a stupid war in East Asia which nearly happened under Obama. The hallowing out of America will continue especially its professional services industries such as software development, business services, legal work, financial analysis, customer support, etc. But those white-collar professional jobs will be moving to English-speaking countries like India, Nigeria, etc. and not to non-English countries like China. And yes, you will see a massive flood of non-White immigrants from non-Western countries into the USA under the Biden Administration. Trump banned the issuance of H1-B visas from March 2020 to March 2021. Biden will likely resume the issuance of H1-B visas and increase its numbers further to benefit India, the country of origin for most H1-B workers in the USA.

    These people will get paid off and happily lick the boots of the Chinese.

    The Chinese have lost all interest in the USA since 2008. All they care about is when and how the USA will leave East Asia so they can live in peace.

    • Replies: @Sean
  143. blaqua says:
    @antibeast

    The Sri Lankan port has been leased to China for 99 years. It is as if it is Chinese for 10 decades. Sri Lanka opposition protested to no avail.

    “If you believe those people, then China’s low numbers are real. So who’s LYING?”
    As Trump has pointed out, China lied. He does believe the deadly covid is true and has very accurately described it as a CHINA VIRUS, much to the anger of the corrupt and servile MSM.

    ‘Despite the fact that Chinese immigrants number less than 1 million in Europe and despite the fact that European companies have invested far more in China than the other way around’
    Western and other companies sought cheap manpower, found it in China, invested there modernizing and boosting the country. After decades of outsourcing and omnipresent Made in China the Virus Dragon is bound to become in a few years the number one economy in the world, which doesn’t bother me as long as they don’t hold foreign (air)ports and public assets, don’t dominate most sectors of manufacturing, don’t spread pathogens abroad and don’t demonstrate again the mean selfish behavior shown throughout the pandemic.

    ‘As for Chinese investors buying up small businesses in Europe, you’re wrong because most Chinese immigrants have been moving back to China due to its booming economy.’
    You can acquire overseas businesses and at the same time stay home! As I said in my previous message, they are buying restaurants, hotels in Venice and many other towns.

    “consumers who benefit from cheap Chinese goods have voted with their pocketbooks”
    Such consumers have led to the gradual decay of local economies and locally produced goods. The CCP revels in the necrosis of local economies practicing aggressive protectionism. It’s part of their plan to asphyxiate the world market without firing a bullet. That’s why we should no longer buy from Chinese sellers on ebay or Amazon, but as they are literally everywhere, caution must be exercised on all websites.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @antibeast
  144. Anonymous[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    This should worry the Chinese leaders for it will invite a nuclear holocaust.

    Izzat the best we can do? Really?!?

    “Hey there buddy, you’re getting too smart, fit, and rich there. Building up your business, your savings, and really giving your family a great life. Making deals all over the place, making other families rich and happy too”.

    “So you better watch it! I know I can’t compete, so I swear to God, I will detonate this suicide vest . . . AND KILL US BOTH!”

    What the hell do you do with such a frickin’ LOSER who thinks like that? I would shrug my shoulders, keep living my life, and think to myself . . . “Yeah, try it and see what happens”.

    Try it. See what happens.

    • Replies: @Temporary Insanity
  145. @antibeast

    VW just opened it’s first R&D center in China (Anhui) last month – focusing on New Energy Vehicles. Audi opened another one focusing on autonomous driving… BMW has more R&D in China than anywhere outside of Germany… Of course they aren’t going to China for expertise in suspensions and dual clutch gearboxes… They put R&D in China for the types of talent it has.

    Funny enough – a lot of the talent at China’s NEV start ups worked for German brands… That’s how the ecosystems work.

    Siemens has 4500 engineers in China as well..

    What starts as “localization” balloons because China’s market is so huge it affects other markets now as well

  146. Anonymous[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    China and the EU each have more consumers than the U.S., but their purchasing power on international markets (and those of European business and governments) are inferior because nominal GDP.

    True.

    But as a layman, I have to ask:

    Is not the somewhat obvious solution to this the bypassing of the “international” (U.S. Dollar denominated) markets, in favor of accepting each others’ currency, or at least doing direct goods-for-goods trade?

    Why allow the middleman his cut, using the middleman’s currency, when you don’t have to?

    Exhibit A: China-Russia trade.
    Exhibit B: China-Iran trade

    There are many more instances. No need to price goods (yours or his) in U.S. Dollars, especially when trading in Dollars per se, adds nothing to the transaction.

  147. @Guillaume Durocher

    I respectfully disagree. US nominal GDP is very much intertwined with the financial economy and not the real economy. When it comes to selling actual goods – overall the EU and China are both bigger. Look at cars as an example. The US nominal GDP is trillions above China. Yet many millions more cars are sold in China than the US. Real tangible goods. The EU is a little different because of the different countries… But overall it holds true.
    Both the EU and China are larger trading blocks than the US as well – because they are both larger markets.

  148. Shelley says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Is that why people are escaping America and immigrating China? Use common sense and stop believing the propaganda.

    Governments are corrupt. The DNC and the RNC are partners in crime. Anyone that makes a career in politics is dirty. They hate, entrap, impeach, and slander, Trump because he isn’t one of them. We aren’t at war and ISIS isn’t being funded anymore.

    Only brain washed people can believe that a dirty politician with almost 50 years in office is going to finally fix things now.

    That said, unlike China we still have an intact US Constitution. If Beijing Biden gets in, via election fraud and a Maiden-esque coup that ended with ANTIFA brown shirts dressed as MAGA, at Capital Hill, the constitution goes out the window. I would bet 2A is the first piece to go. Because of a sensationalized False Flag event of course.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  149. @antibeast

    Very good points about Huawei and the extortion of the US. The designers who worked at HiSilicon aren’t going anywhere (though actually some move to other Chinese companies to help them develop their own advanced chips faster)… They aren’t going to “forget” Even US industry observers believe Chinese companies will be able to make 7nm chips with no US equipment along the entire supply chain by 2023. Mature nodes are where the money is. By 2023 7nm will be “mature”. So it will hinder US companies. They mistake China.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  150. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    The US Deep State wanted to appease the Pentagon by allowing US ‘allies’ such as Japan to rip-off the USA by living off the US military instead of paying for their own national defense. That’s true for NATO as well because the Europeans were happy to live off the US military so they could get their national defense for free while keeping US companies out of the EU market. In the meantime, Germany and Japan get to export their cars to the USA while keeping US cars out of the EU and Japan. […]

    The Chinese have lost all interest in the USA since 2008. All they care about is when and how the USA will leave East Asia so they can live in peace.

    China wants its suppliers in Japan and the former Japanese colonies in Taiwan and South Korea to continue to have access to the US market; yes, but even more important to China is that the makers of key components in China’a jewel in the crown products like Huwaei 5g keep getting access to cutting edge US technology. For that to continue happening the US must stay in North Asia, and be committed to the defence of those so called allies who are increasingly taking on the actual form of economic enemy attacker states. Obama’s and President Hillary would have faced a ramping up of counter moves by Xi and his ostensibly independent North Korean running (attack) dog flexing its missiles. They would not have simply gone away. Japan and especially South Korea would soon be demanding a massive increase in the US forces protecting them as the price of continuing with TPP, which was giving them unprecedented access to the US market.

    U.S. forces chief says South Korea paid for 90 percent of biggest overseas base
    By Christine Kim 2018
    PYEONGTAEK, South Korea (Reuters) – The chief of the U.S. military forces commended South Korea for shouldering nearly all the cost of building the largest U.S. overseas military base, in a speech at the formal opening of the new headquarters in Pyeongtaek.

    American brasshats think they are preventing war, and the South Koreans encourage that delusion. The military threat to South Korea from the supposed rogue state of the Kims in the North, which merely declared a cease fire at the end of the Korean war and is not yet at peace with the South, is a necessary one for China. It is dusted off up whenever any long term strategic nous is exhibited by US leaders.

    China’s only interest in being ‘friendly’ to the Bidens is to keep the USA from starting a stupid war in East Asia which nearly happened under Obama.

    No, North Korea is is a cat’s paw of Xi. As the only country with influence on Kim, China’s good offices are needed every time North Korea starts flexing it missiles, Obama’s attempt to isolate China economically quickly embroiled America in an unwinnable confrontation with North Korea over its nuclear weapons program. Trump was no sooner elected that the North Koreans’ program accelerated to a staggering rate of achievement; they now have a colossal ICBM and are trumpeting they are at the last step of thermonuclear weapon miniaturization for a warhead to nuke the continental United States. China also began military engineering on the disputed Spratly Islands, giving it a tightening chokehold over the sea lanes of the South China Sea, while the US navy could do nothing but but joint exercises like the ones with South Korea, which the US pays the entire cost of.

    Biden is the man from Wilmington Delaware where most Fortune 500 companies are legally based, as America’s corporate cooperator President he will conceive of the problem as in the short tern one of halting the menacing military pressure on and humiliation of the US armed forces in the region, and much more importantly securing long term openness to US investors in China and repatriation of their profits. Warren Buffet got a 600% return on his investment in a Chinese electric vehicle company.

    The business class of the West merely hunkered down till Trump was out, and now they are going to all the way in on China, they were depending on it before and the recent Chinese growth makes them even more so now. They are red not for China. So the Chinese are going to be left in peace, apart from American corporations and investors calling to plead to get in on China’s growth and offering the country American capital. For corporations the transfer of technology will be a sweetener the Chinese will be negotiating for . Does anyone think the technology transfer in US -American joint ventures is going to be from China to America? The stimulus money created for easing the economic effect of the pandemic in America is going to go straight to China.

  151. antibeast says:
    @blaqua

    The Sri Lankan port has been leased to China for 99 years. It is as if it is Chinese for 10 decades. Sri Lanka opposition protested to no avail.

    You don’t seem to understand how international the business of port operations is. Here’s a Wikipedia entry:

    A port operator is a port authority or company that contracts with the port authority to move cargo through a port at a contracted minimum level of productivity. They may be state-owned (particularly for port authorities) or privately run.

    The work involves managing the movement of cargo containers between cargo ships, trucks and freight trains and optimizing the flow of goods through customs to minimize the amount of time a ship spends in port. Maintaining efficiency involves managing and upgrading gantry cranes, berths, waterways, roads, storage facilities, communication equipment, computer systems and dockworkers’ union contracts. The port operator also manages paperwork, leases, safety and port security.

    In the case of Sri Lanka, China leased the port but will most likely sublease the operation of the port terminals to global companies which operate port terminals all over the world. Here’s a list of the world’s top port operators, as per Wikipedia:

    Hutchison Port Holdings (Hong Kong, People’s Republic of China)
    PSA International (Singapore)
    DP World (Dubai, United Arab Emirates)
    APM Terminals (The Hague, Netherlands)
    COSCO (Beijing, People’s Republic of China)
    EUROGATE (Bremen, Germany)
    International Container Terminal Services (Manila, Philippines)

    Note that the Chinese company COSCO is ranked in the top ten but it isn’t the biggest operator of port terminals in the world. That title belongs to Hutchison and PSA which are based in HK and Singapore respectively. China will end up subleasing the port terminal operations to these global operators because they control most of the world’s seaports.

    As Trump has pointed out, China lied. He does believe the deadly covid is true and has very accurately described it as a CHINA VIRUS, much to the anger of the corrupt and servile MSM.

    No, Trump was saying that China covered up two things — 1) lethality and 2) virality of the Covid-19 virus — because he claimed not to have known how deadly and viral the Covid-19 virus really was until the Covid-19 pandemic became widespread in the USA. But Bob Woodward exposed Trump in a tape-recorded interview back in early January of 2020 that Trump knew about the lethality and virality of the Covid-19 virus. So Trump LIED to the US public.

    As for China’s numbers, that depends on how Chinese hospitals attribute the cause of death of Chinese patients. By being conservative, Chinese authorities only attribute Covid-19 if that’s the only cause of death. But US hospitals were far more liberal, attributing Covid-19 even if the US patients had other causes of death. That’s why Trump and the alt-right media claimed the US numbers were ‘faked’.

    Western and other companies sought cheap manpower, found it in China, invested there modernizing and boosting the country. After decades of outsourcing and omnipresent Made in China the Virus Dragon is bound to become in a few years the number one economy in the world, which doesn’t bother me as long as they don’t hold foreign (air)ports and public assets, don’t dominate most sectors of manufacturing, don’t spread pathogens abroad and don’t demonstrate again the mean selfish behavior shown throughout the pandemic.

    Italy, Spain, France and other European countries got their Covid-19 strains from somewhere else other than China because their strains have been spreading in Europe as early as December of 2019, before its ‘discovery’ in Wuhan by the end of that year. The European strains are also different from the Wuhan strain so they originated from different sources.

    As I wrote in my earlier post, China has ceased to be the world’s factory for low-cost manufacturing for the past ten years. China is transitioning to technology and services industries serving the domestic market and away manufacturing industries serving export markets. That’s why China is building up infrastructure for the BRI countries so that China can relocate its manufacturing industries to those BRI countries to take advantage of their lower-costs of land, labor, shipping, tariffs, energy, materials, etc. No point for China to import iron ore, produce steel and then manufacture cars for export to global markets if those production processes can be done in Europe, Asia, Africa and Latin America. What China is now doing is exactly what Western multinationals have been doing in China. In other words, China has become a net exporter of Capital and Technology instead of exporting Products and Services.

    You can acquire overseas businesses and at the same time stay home! As I said in my previous message, they are buying restaurants, hotels in Venice and many other towns.

    Chinese tourists who travel abroad number some 140 million who spend some $200B on overseas shopping every year, mostly on Western brands made in Europe. China now wants those Chinese tourists to spend their monies at home in places like Hainan which has been declared a Free-Trade Zone. Here’s a video of Hainan:

    China wants to move from export-oriented manufacturing industries to knowledge-based technology and services industries servicing the domestic market. The Hainan Free-Trade Zone is an example of that strategy which promotes technology industries such as Electric Vehicles (EV) and services industries such as Medical Tourism, Duty-Free Shopping, Wellness Tourism, etc. In order to promote the EV industry, Hainan has banned the sale of gas vehicles by 2030. TESLA is planning to setup its EV innovation center in Hainan and build EV charging stations throughout the island.

    Such consumers have led to the gradual decay of local economies and locally produced goods. The CCP revels in the necrosis of local economies practicing aggressive protectionism. It’s part of their plan to asphyxiate the world market without firing a bullet. That’s why we should no longer buy from Chinese sellers on ebay or Amazon, but as they are literally everywhere, caution must be exercised on all websites.

    Amazon and ebay may be popular in the world but they’re nothing in China which leads the world in e-commerce, fintech, online gaming, cryptocurrency, AI, etc. Chinese brands hardly sell on Amazon or ebay. What you see on Amazon and ebay are the copycat losers in the Chinese market which is the largest and fastest growing e-commerce market in the world!!! Here’s the stats on the worldwide e-commerce market in 2018-19:

    Notice that the e-commerce market in China is nearly FOUR(4) times that of the USA and is growing twice as fast. The Europeans know that China not the USA is the new game in town. And that’s why they have been pushing for this new EU-China deal for the past eight years!!!

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @blaqua
  152. @Shelley

    Is that why people are escaping America and immigrating China?

    I escaped Australia and emigrated to America.

    My neighbor where I live in Thailand escaped America and came to live in Thailand.

    When countries are poor or cannot provide opportunities appropriate for individual talents, some of their citizens move to where they can get what they want.

    Chinese have largely stopped emigrating to the US since China took the lead in education and opportunity.

  153. @Z-man

    the Chinese foisted the plague on Europe and the whole world

    Get a grip! It was in Europe and the US months before it reached China.

    A November 11, 2020 Italian paper provided concrete evidence of Covid-19 circulating in Europe in the Fall of 2019. Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the prepandemic period in Italy – Giovanni Apolone, et al., Tumori, 2020. The Italian paper showed that four cases dated back to the first week of October were also positive for antibodies neutralizing the virus, meaning they had got infected in September. Giovanni Apolone, a co-author of the study, told Reuters, “This is the main finding: people with no symptoms not only were positive after the serological tests but had also antibodies able to kill the virus. It means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for long and with a low rate of lethality not because it is disappearing but only to surge again”. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33176598/

    The CDC found Covid-19 in the US before it was in China, agreeing with findings in Italy and France. Tests of blood samples taken in the US from December 13 last year revealed evidence of antibodies for the Covid-19 virus. The samples were taken more than two weeks before the December 31 official confirmation of the outbreak in Wuhan and a month earlier than the first confirmed case of Covid-19 in the US on January 19.https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3112160/american-study-finds-signs-coronavirus-us-china-outbreak
    Original paper: https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1785/6012472

    • Disagree: Z-man
  154. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    No, Trump was saying that China covered up two things — 1) lethality and 2) virality of the Covid-19 virus — because he claimed not to have known how deadly and viral the Covid-19 virus really was until the Covid-19 pandemic became widespread in the USA. But Bob Woodward exposed Trump in a tape-recorded interview back in early January of 2020 that Trump knew about the lethality and virality of the Covid-19 virus. So Trump LIED to the US public.

    It was known this was a novel coronavirus and the precedents were MERS and SARS which caused epidemics in 2003 and 2012 respectively; both were very lethal (killing 10% of more of those infected) but not all that transmissible. World Health Organization member China provided information that led the WHO to give a press briefing on Jan 14 in which they said “it is certainly possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission” . Also on Jan 14, the WHO tweeted that so far the investigations by Chinese authorities had found “no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission”.

    The Chinese used their membership of the World Health Organization to inhibit any ban on flights from China into other counties by telling the world that there was not going to be a pandemic. Professor of Epidemiology W. Ian Lipkin had been warning the Chinese on his frequent visits to their country for over a decade that they had to shut down their wet markets since these were the prime suspected origin in the novel SARS pandemic of 2003. They ignored him.

    Trump might have won reelection if he had distrusted the CCP as (non WHO member) Taiwan did; they began health inspections of all flights from Wuhan 0n January 1 2020. The key issue was transmissibility and on that issue the Chinese were misleaders. President Donald Trump at the Feb. 27, Coronavirus Task Force press conference:

    “I spoke with President Xi. We had a great talk. He’s working very hard, I have to say. He’s working very, very hard. And if you can count on the reports coming out of China, that spread has gone down quite a bit. The infection seems to have gone down over the last two days. As opposed to getting larger, it’s actually gotten smaller.”

    You couldn’t fly from Wuhan to Beijing. China had locked down all domestic traffic by the end of January 2020, but through the WHO insisted on other countries permitting flights from China, that they were not direct from Wuhan was no safeguard. By that point Xi conceivably knew enough to see the pandemic as offering a passive-aggressive way to get rid of Trump, who’d got elected while saying said China was committing economic rape of the United States and whose strong states China had already targeted with economic sanctions.

    China which leads the world in e-commerce, fintech, online gaming, cryptocurrency, AI,

    Yes “One must need to be strong, otherwise one will never become strong.” as Nietzsche pointed out. The competition is cruel in China so they have unbeatable commerce. Ian Morris says the triumph of the Europeans over China , which originally had a world lead in firearms was because the Europeans got good at guns. In the European’ states ceaseless wars to get wealth by conquering their neighbours they created a need for investing in guns. For China huge and secure, guns were about as useful as their 1422 expeditionary fleets of discovery sailing all the oceans at enormous cost. But uncomplaining termite-likeness leads to peak efficiency.

    Climbing ever higher mountains means you must go down into the valley and that is the one thing China won’t do. To find better solutions diversions from peak efficiency are required. Immigration and diversity is a part of that. The Pfizer COVID vaccine science is the work of BioNTech, a German company founded by German Turkish physicians Ugur Sahin and Ozlem Turec. China needs access to the fruits of a creative but less ordered societies without the political inconvenience of allowing un-Confucian freedoms in China itself.

    Notice that the e-commerce market in China is nearly FOUR(4) times that of the USA and is growing twice as fast. The Europeans know that China not the USA is the new game in town. And that’s why they have been pushing for this new EU-China deal for the past eight years!!!

    Yes, investing in the geometrical growth of the the Chinese home market is what the whole Western elite are banking on. But it must be borne in mind that this is primarily not Europeans selling things made in Europe to to China it is European investing in Chinese making things (increasingly in automated factories that eliminate the need for workers). There will be nothing for European workers, except maybe German ones selling capital goods for a while. Biden’s own son has got in on it, with his father’s approval because it will be extremely lucrative

    Hunter Biden’s Ex-Business Partner Alleges Father Knew …www.wsj.com › articles › hunter-bidens-ex-business-partn…
    23 Oct 2020 — An ex-business partner of Hunter Biden said he consulted his father about a planned venture with a Chinese oil company. Joe Biden denied

    The only thing that Joe Biden is annoyed about is the timing, which created the impression of the White House’s new occupant as Lear, complete with disastrous choice of female succession.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @AaronB
  155. Vaterland says:
    @Bit Def

    I am always surprised that this kind of nonsense is still repeated in the comment section on this particular website when you have not only Unz’ own American Pravda series, a myriad of articles related to it, but entire books, such as John Wear’s available. But you are most likely just a troll anyway and not interested in the truth at all.

    The only thing worthy of extermination is stupidity and ignorance.

  156. Vaterland says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    What are you talking about “not getting” China? The rise of Chinese communism was aided from the very beginning by American-Jewish intellectuals, later in the Cold War its economic rise aided since the Nixon Administration by the USA to divide it away from the Soviet Union, especially by Henry Kissinger who is basically its mastermind on he US side and has very strong business ties into China to this very day. It could be interpreted as a grand deception by Deng, had he not outlined it from the very beginning: capitalism, socialism, communism. And the Americans knew it.

    Technological transfer was and is aided by Israel, the economic transfer by China’s strong ties to the Wall Street elite and allies in the so called US deep state and American elite. Not good, if you have problems with Jews. And for example Rothschild banking, Blackrock and Vanguard have massive investments in China for years and years; this will only increase with business deals made with the EU and USA. Furthermore the Chinese admire Jews and see them as a role model, really a very similar relationship as between the chosen and the old WASP elite. Chabad has also already set up shop in China and is on the way of introducing the Noahide Laws there. – Just as they did with Duterte by the way! In case you had hoped any nation, no matter how small or third world, could escape a truly global elite.

    China as a kind of challenger, obstacle or roadblock to an “evil American empire” as the sole source of globohomo and based Eurasianism as the nativist friendly alternative to globalism is at best laughably naive and in most cases outright disinformation propaganda. Just as much disinformation as Trump, the king of Israel was, whose personality cult persists to this day. The real elite is global; globalization just means their extension of control. And there are no political parties, no dissidents, no intellectuals and no political-adjacent groups which are truly capable to challenge them. European Identitarians, US Alt-Right, Paleoconservatism, mainstream conservatism, or an imagined based left are all politically bankrupt and/or defeated. China has no need for or interest in them, except as useful idiots to cause disruption maybe. The same role Qtards played for the US establishment.

    But Europeans are lucky; they are too far away to get the Tibet treatment. A country actually worthy of support and genuinely on the side of European nativists.

    The last real opponent of this global elite was the 3rd Reich and its allies. And it was crushed utterly and completely by these masters of money and propaganda as the ultimate head of both the Soviet Union and the American Empire, but also the founding father of communist China; later it created the European Union. Not always it was so mask-off as declaring the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany at Villa Rothschild or Coudenhove-Kalergi in Praktischer Idealismus.

    After years of experience with the so called alternative media and “dissidents” I couldn’t be more disappointed. To cheer on the rise of a Chinese Communist dictatorship which is hungry, aggressive, intelligent and capable to the global pole position by so called right-wing racists is stupid and laughable beyond believe! The same is true for wasting years on shilling your ass off for the “king of Israel” and his cult of course. Or seeing Russia as your role-model. And the new right parliamentary parties in Europe are all, without exception, Zionists.

    But what I find most disappointing is the lack of confidence, will-to-self and capability to create a world of our own. Europe really is psychologically broken. Our people are decadent, weak and dumb, just like Americans are. Varg Vikernes was completely right on this one.

    The real black pill is not that the elite behaves like predators, but that the overwhelming majority of people behave like prey.

    • Thanks: dogbumbreath
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  157. blaqua says:
    @antibeast

    You don’t seem to understand how international the business of port operations is.”

    I fully understand that’s why no State should sell its ports to other countries, especially to dishonest filthy countries like China, whose lackeys are meddling in our affairs. We don’t want them buying our ports and/or indebting us!

    “No, Trump was saying that China covered up two things”

    You agree with me and I don’t like repeating myself: Trump said that it is a CHINA VIRUS and that the CCP has covered up things for obvious reasons. Just look at their figures. Only a moron or partial sinophile would believe that a land of 1.4 billion has had only 87,000 infections and 4300 deaths, while Japan a much smaller country of very smart population 280,000 cases! Sadly, Chinese are currently dishonest and untrustworthy. Don’t be fooled by their game; millions of covid-infected persons are still there.

    “Italy, Spain, France and other European countries got their Covid-19 strains from somewhere else”
    They got it from China and that’s why the CCP tries to cover up the situation and JAILS daring citizens who try to uncover the truth. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/chinese-citizen-journalist-zhang-zhan-jailed-provoking-trouble-wuhan-reporting-n1252403
    First corona cases recorded in Italy and France were Chinese, those in Italy were tourists from Wuhan in January 2020. Italy suspended flights from&to China, and 4-5 days later (February) the servile WHO leader and the CCP foreign minister voiced their disapproval of Italy’s suspension. The so-called ‘studies’ whereby the virus originated in Italy and Spain are a laughable disgrace and insult to our intelligence and the scientific community and paid by Chinese.

    ‘Chinese tourists who travel abroad number some 140 million who spend some $200B on overseas shopping every year’
    Blah blah, so what? The fact that your countless ballers spend billions abroad doesn’t give the CCP the right to silence us and dictate us on how to act (as I said previously Chinese are IMPERVIOUS TO CRITICISM in the major Western media and even here at the alternative unz.com (!), all afraid of China). Look at Jack Ma, richest Asian, is MISSING since October over a couple of public remarks that angered Mr. Xi & Co. And I ask the world: do you want such people, the vile CCP and their millions of servants, to be your masters and rulers?
    https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/jack-ma-missing-232138645.html

    ‘What you see on Amazon and ebay are the copycat losers in the Chinese market’
    Congratulations on calling losers millions of Chinese, at last something worth quoting. And as for your stats, I think I made it clear in my previous message that China is dominating in the world market, resulting in a serious blow to our local economies. Instead of supporting local producers, millions buy again and again from chinks all kinds of stuff. They don’t realize the financial consequences. SUPPORT to your LOCAL ECONOMY will make Chinks lose their sneer.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  158. AaronB says:
    @antibeast

    So what you’re saying is that the US Deep State treats its allies as if they’re part of a “protection racket” — we’ll protect you but you pay us with your sovereignty. That sounds like a Mafia to me.

    You dont understand what the term protection racket means – it means attacking someone unless he gives you money. Its a racket because you aren’t protecting him from anyone but himself. You’re the threat and the protection lol.

    The US protects other countries from enemies.

    Pretty obvious. But in your mind, the US owes other countries protection for free. Anything less is being like the Mafia lol.

    • Agree: Sean
  159. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    World Health Organization member China provided information that led the WHO to give a press briefing on Jan 14 in which they said “it is certainly possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission” . Also on Jan 14, the WHO tweeted that so far the investigations by Chinese authorities had found “no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission”.

    The fact that Covid-19 has a two-week ‘incubation’ period before showing any symptoms with lots of Covid-19 victims displaying no symptoms at all — ipso facto — implies that China was not ‘LYING’ about something it didn’t know. As Wuhan saw a huge spike of Covid-19 patients showing flu-like symptoms a few weeks later, that’s when the Chinese authorities ordered the lockdown in Wuhan.

    OTOH, Trump admitted in his Feb. 7 interview with Bob Woodward that he knew the Covid-19 virus is both ‘deadly’ and transmissible via air, viz:

    It goes through air, Bob. That’s always tougher than the touch. You know, the touch, you don’t have to touch things, right? But the air, you just breath the air and that’s how it’s passed.”

    See 1:30 in the video below:

    Professor of Epidemiology W. Ian Lipkin had been warning the Chinese on his frequent visits to their country for over a decade that they had to shut down their wet markets since these were the prime suspected origin in the novel SARS pandemic of 2003. They ignored him.

    Professor Lipkin is wrong about the Covid-19 virus which did NOT originate from the Wuhan Wet Market as zero scientific evidence has been discovered linking any of the live animals being sold there to the Covid-19 virus. The closest they found was the Pangolin RNA but even that didn’t perfectly match the Covid-19 RNA.

    Trump might have won reelection if he had distrusted the CCP as (non WHO member) Taiwan did; they began health inspections of all flights from Wuhan 0n January 1 2020. The key issue was transmissibility and on that issue the Chinese were misleaders.

    The key issue is Trump’s own mishandling of the deadly Covid-19 pandemic which he knew would happen because of its viral transmissibility via air. Nothing China nor the WHO did suggest ‘LYING’ about the Covid-19 virus which has a two-week ‘incubation’ period. From the time China reported this new Covid-19 virus to the WHO on December 31st to ordering the lockdown in Wuhan on Jan. 23st, 2020, China had only 22 days or roughly three weeks to determine the 1) deadliness and 2) virality of the new virus with the two-week ‘incubation’ period giving China only ONE(1) week to decide whether to impose a lockdown in Wuhan.

    You couldn’t fly from Wuhan to Beijing. China had locked down all domestic traffic by the end of January 2020, but through the WHO insisted on other countries permitting flights from China, that they were not direct from Wuhan was no safeguard.

    China’s decision to allow international flights was the right move because preventing foreign nationals from leaving Wuhan would have sparked the predictable Western outcry accusing China of violating the ‘human right’ and ‘freedom’ of foreign nationals to travel back to their home countries.

    By that point Xi conceivably knew enough to see the pandemic as offering a passive-aggressive way to get rid of Trump, who’d got elected while saying said China was committing economic rape of the United States and whose strong states China had already targeted with economic sanctions.

    In order to comply with the US-China trade deal 1.0, China actually started buying soybeans again from the red States who voted for Trump during the Summer and Fall of 2020.

    https://www.foodbusinessnews.net/articles/16958-despite-huge-purchases-of-us-soybeans-china-may-not-meet-commitments

    The USDA, in its most recent weekly Export Sales report, said US exports and undelivered sales of soybeans to China for delivery in 2020-21 (which began Sept. 1) as of Sept. 17 totaled 19,241,000 tonnes. This compared with only 2,054,900 tonnes by the same date last year for delivery in 2019-20. Additionally, as of Sept. 17, there were 10,058,9000 tonnes in outstanding sales to “unknown destinations,” many of which may be switched to China.

    Confirmed US export sales of soybeans to China for delivery this marketing year already eclipsed those in all of 2018-19 at 16,266,200 tonnes. In 2018-19, when the trade war was at its most bitter point and African swine fever reduced China’s need for soybean imports to manufacture meal, US soybean exports to China totaled 13,369,900 tonnes, down from 27,681,800 tonnes in 2017-18. US soybean exports to China totaled 36,148,300 tonnes in 2016-17.

    The United States has already sold 19 million tonnes of soybeans to China for the 2020-21 crop year, more than 10 times year ago-levels and the largest on record (at this point in the marketing year),” Mr. Lapp said.

    Xi was actually trying to help Trump win the election by having China make record purchases of soybeans in 2020.

    The competition is cruel in China so they have unbeatable commerce.

    Yes, the only way to survive cutthroat competition in China is to avoid getting killed by cutthroat copycats who would steal everything from your business. So guess what happened? Chinese entrepreneurs decided they need to innovate by creating their own brands, channels, designs and technology.

    Climbing ever higher mountains means you must go down into the valley and that is the one thing China won’t do. To find better solutions diversions from peak efficiency are required. Immigration and diversity is a part of that. The Pfizer COVID vaccine science is the work of BioNTech, a German company founded by German Turkish physicians Ugur Sahin and Ozlem Turec. China needs access to the fruits of a creative but less ordered societies without the political inconvenience of allowing un-Confucian freedoms in China itself.

    That’s an oft-repeated Western misconception about Chinese ‘conformism’. But that’s absolutely false in the ‘dog-eat-dog’ world of business in China. That’s why the State is needed to impose the ‘rules of order’ out of the chaos in the Chinese market in order to enforce things like ‘contracts’, ‘patents’, ‘standards’, etc. The Europeans want a level playing field in the Chinese market which is now possible with this new EU-China investment deal. Foreign talents are already welcome in China which launched the ‘Ten Thousand Talents Program” targeted at foreigners without ethnic ties to China.

    Yes, investing in the geometrical growth of the the Chinese home market is what the whole Western elite are banking on. But it must be borne in mind that this is primarily not Europeans selling things made in Europe to to China it is European investing in Chinese making things (increasingly in automated factories that eliminate the need for workers). There will be nothing for European workers, except maybe German ones selling capital goods for a while.

    Not true at all. This new EU-China investment deal would also facilitate Chinese investment into the EU market, thus helping create jobs for EU workers.

    Biden’s own son has got in on it, with his father’s approval because it will be extremely lucrative.

    Biden is a US citizen. This new EU-China investment deal doesn’t apply to US entities.

    • Replies: @Sean
  160. AaronB says:
    @Sean

    Climbing ever higher mountains means you must go down into the valley and that is the one thing China won’t do. To find better solutions diversions from peak efficiency are required. Immigration and diversity is a part of that. The Pfizer COVID vaccine science is the work of BioNTech, a German company founded by German Turkish physicians Ugur Sahin and Ozlem Turec. China needs access to the fruits of a creative but less ordered societies without the political inconvenience of allowing un-Confucian freedoms in China itself.

    Very good insight. This is what all the people who dream of “peak efficiency” don’t realize – they are dooming themselves to stagnation.

    You need a certain amount of anarchy to be creative.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  161. @HeebHunter

    When not if our people tire of exchanging the sweat of our brow for green toilet paper, the nigger uprising alone will lay the sorry vestiges of their empire to ashes.

    Unfortunately this also means they will not stop at anything to keep their racket going.
    Piracy, wars of aggression, subversion … already routine.
    (and it really doesn´t matter which joker disgraces the House formerly known as White)

    • Agree: HeebHunter
  162. @Sean

    To paraphrase Wolfgang Schäuble, “the US are always free to build better cars” 😛

  163. antibeast says:
    @blaqua

    I guess you didn’t know about the fact that most of the seaports in the world are owned and controlled by a few corporations operating globally including China!!! Why is this needed in the international ocean shipping business? Because most shipping companies prefer dealing with one global company operating multiple terminals in seaports all over the world. Same thing will happen to the seaports in Sri Lanka and Pakistan as their terminals are leased out to these global operators in order to serve their clients all over the world.

    My last post clearly showed how much larger China’s e-commerce market is compared even to that of the USA. And that’s why foreign investors including EU companies want to invest in the Chinese market. Hainan’s Free Trade Zone is China’s attempt to accommodate foreign brands many of which are from the EU. China does not want to invest in every country in the world; all it needs is to partner with a few select BRI countries such as Sri Lanka and Pakistan, which will become the maritime hubs of South Asia and West Asia, respectively.

    You may not like China’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic nor believe in China’s numbers but China’s record speaks for itself.

    Any further questions?

  164. antibeast says:
    @showmethereal

    Even US industry observers believe Chinese companies will be able to make 7nm chips with no US equipment along the entire supply chain by 2023. Mature nodes are where the money is. By 2023 7nm will be “mature”. So it will hinder US companies. They mistake China.

    Silicon CMOS technology is already quite mature and reaching the limits of Moore’s Law. Anything below 10nm is just too expensive to make and too complex to design which limits their commercial use-cases to mobile devices such as high-end smartphones. That’s why UMC, GlobalFoundries and others have already given up on anything below 10nm nodes. Where China can really shine is in newer multi-chip assembly and in-chip packaging technologies which combines chiplets onto a single chip. China can also excel in newer semiconductor technologies such as MOCVD used in GaN, LED, solar cells, etc. or newer semiconductor processes such as EUV lithography for Silicon wafer fabrication.

    The problem for Silicon Valley is that their entire business model is based on selling their Silicon IP and outsourcing all the semiconductor and electronics manufacturing elsewhere. That’s why their biggest customer are Chinese OEMs with TSMC making all their chips which gets into all kinds of electronic devices. The switching cost for Chinese OEMs is pretty small as they can turn to fabless design houses in Taiwan to design their Silicon IP and then outsourcing the semiconductor manufacturing to TSMC. In the meantime, Chinese semiconductor startups are now poaching thousands of Taiwanese engineers who are highly experienced in the semiconductor industry to move to mainland China. And they run gamut from semiconductor tooling to CAD software to Silicon IP houses to semiconductor testing/packaging equipment startups.

    The global semiconductor industry is quite mature and is no longer a ‘rocket science’ field only limited to Silicon Valley as semiconductor upstarts in East Asia such as Taiwan, South Korea, Japan even tiny Singapore has had great success in creating their own Silicon Islands over the past five decades. Now China wants to create its own Silicon Cities in Shenzhen, Quanzhou, Chengdu, Shanghai, Wuhan, etc. which is far easier now given the availability of semiconductor expertise from East Asia.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  165. @Anonymous

    In the last 47 years, the EU has expanded from 6 countries to 27. Hardly stagnation. The Euro now out performs the USD as a trading currency most months (although the USD is still absolutely dominant as a reserve currency but one step at a time). In PPP terms the GDP/cap of the EU15 outstripped the USA. Bringing the Easterners up to Western standards is a built in growth platform. EU planes don’t fall out of the air so much. EU pharma does rather well, see Covid19 and the US has always overstated its significance in electronics. Mobile phone and tablet technology is and always was UK and EU based in terms of IP, even Apple.

  166. @John Hagan

    The US $ is already #2 as a trading currency most months according to SWIFT.

  167. @Anonymous

    When it comes to bite you in the ass, don’t you come crying foul play!

  168. Anonymous[221] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Yep.

    Just look at all the trouble blacks are making in America, and how the France is on the verge of turning Muslim.

    How great! How Wonderful! Jolly good gosh!

    Let’s import more niggers!!!!!!

  169. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    The fact that Covid-19 has a two-week ‘incubation’ period before showing any symptoms with lots of Covid-19 victims displaying no symptoms at all — ipso facto — implies that China was not ‘LYING’ about something it didn’t know.

    On January 1 2020, the Huanan market in Wuhan which sold live wild animals that were slaughtered for meat was closed by order of the Chinese government, which had identified it as the probable source of many (but not all) early cases of COVID-19.

    On Jan 14, the World Health Organization said “it is certainly possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission” and that investigations by Chinese authorities had found “no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission”. The key issue was transmissibility and on that issue the Chinese failed to discharge their responsibilities when two weeks after the market was closed as the origin of an epidemic they got the WHO to announced it was “possible there is limited” transmissibility between humans, but there was “no clear” evidence of even the “limited” transmission.

    Professor Lipkin is wrong about the Covid-19 virus which did NOT originate from the Wuhan Wet Market as zero scientific evidence has been discovered linking any of the live animals being sold there to the Covid-19 virus. The closest they found was the Pangolin RNA but even that didn’t perfectly match the Covid-19 RNA.

    Then he must have been wrong about the two previous novel coronaviruse pandemics, the SARS (spike protein from a civet) in which came out of China in 2003 and and MERS (spike protein from a camel) which was out of the Middle East in 2012.


    This new EU-China investment deal would also facilitate Chinese investment into the EU market, thus helping create jobs for EU workers.

    Yes, and those jobs will increasingly be the only decent jobs working men will be able to get in Europe and America. China’s BYD has a plant in Lancaster, California, where several hundred American union workers use 60% American-sourced parts to build electrical buses.

    On Sept. 26, 2008, Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (BRK-B) agreed to buy what is now equivalent to 24.59% of BYD Co.’s Hong Kong-traded stock. Those shares in what is now China’s biggest maker of alternative-energy vehicles have soared more than 500% since then, turning a $232 million investment into a stake worth roughly $1.6 billion at current prices.

    The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency gives cities grants to purchase those buses. And the Chinese government subsidizes BYD, so they are always able to beat American firms on price.

    On Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show last week, Biden family business partner Tony Bobulinski made highly detailed allegations of meetings he had with Joe Biden, Hunter Biden and Joe’s brother Jim Biden in 2017, indicating that the former vice president had knowledge of Hunter’s dealings with a company close to China’s Communist Party. That company, CEFC China Energy, purportedly offered Hunter $10 million a year “for introductions alone.”

    In asking an building manager for two extra office keys , Hunter referred to his father as his one of his partners. the other was a Chinese national. Most importantly, Joe has repeatedly and explicitly said that China is “not competition for us.”

    • Replies: @antibeast
  170. @antibeast

    Huawei’s HarmonyOS will now be competing against …

    Afaik it is another Android fork. Your 7nm costs from above are disputable too. Nobody knows the production costs when this technology ripes. And you don’t have to own a whole harbor. You only need some quays and the infrastructure for hinterland transport.

    Anyhow, thank you for the comments, very thoughtful. But methink a little too enthusiastic. China has invaded and occupied Tibet. Sure there are historical justifications as each has its noble reasons. Now they claims parts of the surrounding seas. It never stops the claims on Taiwan and have unflinching aggression against this independent country. No difference to others.

    They can’t go the same way as the predatory west because they have to avoid direct confrontation. In Africa they build up infrastructure and – surprise surprise – some garrisons. Of course only to protect them, maybe your sure. I am not.

    New silk road means that money and gold flows in direction of china too. I don’t believe in the peaceful nature of nations. China itself has a never ending history of internal conflicts and centuries of agony as a result.

    It is a question of power, Chinese are the hardest nationalists i ever met. When the opportunity arises, the goal becomes kowtowing to the dragon throne of all others. Merely a national peculiarity in the eternal ups and downs of the (super)powers.

    Sorry for this statement with too much meaning and too little facts.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  171. It is so weird reading Chinese anons trying so hard to be serious in their replies to trolls.

  172. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    On January 1 2020, the Huanan market in Wuhan which sold live wild animals that were slaughtered for meat was closed by order of the Chinese government, which had identified it as the probable source of many (but not all) early cases of COVID-19.

    On Jan 14, the World Health Organization said “it is certainly possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission” and that investigations by Chinese authorities had found “no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission”. The key issue was transmissibility and on that issue the Chinese failed to discharge their responsibilities when two weeks after the market was closed as the origin of an epidemic they got the WHO to announced it was “possible there is limited” transmissibility between humans, but there was “no clear” evidence of even the “limited” transmission.

    Simple Math:

    Let t = date when workers at the Wuhan Wet Market started reporting symptoms which led to them being hospitalized.
    Between t and t+14, family members of infected workers showed no symptoms which led authorities to speculate that there is no evidence of human-to-human transmissions.
    After t+14, family members started reporting symptoms which led authorities to conclude that human-to-human transmissions are possible.

    If t is January 1, then t+14 is January 14.
    Between t+14 and t+23, family members of infected workers started getting sick from Jan. 14 to Jan. 23, implying human-to-human transmissions with an incubation period of 14 days.
    At t+23, China imposed a lockdown in Wuhan on Jan. 23, 2020, after the one week spike of new infections from family members of the original infected workers at the Wuhan Wet Market.

    Yes, and those jobs will increasingly be the only decent jobs working men will be able to get in Europe and America. China’s BYD has a plant in Lancaster, California, where several hundred American union workers use 60% American-sourced parts to build electrical buses.

    But where’s your Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati, Jaguar, Bentley, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche and other luxury brands in the US auto industry? Where’s your Prada, Chanel, Louis-Vuitton, Armani, Hermes and other luxury brands in the US fashion industry? Where are the US factories making US luxury brands in the USA?

    US multinationals sell to the US mass-market and leave the US high-end market to European-made luxury goods. Chinese consumers buy lots of European-made luxury goods, both in China and in overseas travels. But Chinese consumers don’t buy US-made luxury goods because US multinationals don’t make them in the USA. Instead, US brands are made outside the USA and sold to the US mass-market.

    In asking an building manager for two extra office keys , Hunter referred to his father as his one of his partners. the other was a Chinese national. Most importantly, Joe has repeatedly and explicitly said that China is “not competition for us.”

    That’s all hearsay.

    Are you aware that foreign governments are legally allowed to hire political lobbyists in Washington, D.C.’s K-Street to represent foreign interests in the US Capitol? Everybody does it including Trump (and his family) who used their family businesses to extract financial favors from foreign interests.

    So what’s the big deal about Hunter Biden’s dealings with the Chinese? That’s how US politics works!!!

    • Replies: @Sean
  173. antibeast says:
    @Rednose-airline

    Afaik it is another Android fork.

    No, HarmonyOS is a new OS albeit with support for Android application environments.

    Your 7nm costs from above are disputable too. Nobody knows the production costs when this technology ripes.

    TSMC is now sampling 5nm which will go into production sometime next year. But they’re the only game in town as far as I know because their competitors have already given up on below 10nm nodes.

    And you don’t have to own a whole harbor. You only need some quays and the infrastructure for hinterland transport.

    If you think China’s lease of the Gwadar Port in Pakistan and the Hambantota Port in Sri Lanka smacks of ‘debt-trap’ diplomacy, then what do you think of DP World’s lease of seaports in Europe and Russia?

    In 2006, the US Congress forced DP World to sell off its US ports business for “national security” reasons.

    New silk road means that money and gold flows in direction of china too. I don’t believe in the peaceful nature of nations. China itself has a never ending history of internal conflicts and centuries of agony as a result.

    The new silk road is not new because it is just a reincarnation of the old silk road. The BRI is not even a new idea because its counterpart CAREC has been around since 2001. Here’s a map of the railway infrastructure projects of CAREC:

    It is a question of power, Chinese are the hardest nationalists i ever met. When the opportunity arises, the goal becomes kowtowing to the dragon throne of all others. Merely a national peculiarity in the eternal ups and downs of the (super)powers.

    No, it is a question of trade not power as the Chinese are not interested in geopolitics. The BRI project is designed to promote trade via overland and maritime routes that bypass the Straits of Malacca. The Chinese are actually quite conservative in dealing with foreign countries, preferring to strike deals with local partners preferably State entities in order to minimize political risk. The Chinese avoid politically unstable or unreliable States for this reason.

    You’re right though that Chinese are at base ‘nationalists’ in political and cultural terms. That’s why they don’t want to meddle in foreign affairs and resent foreign meddling in their internal affairs. China has no desire to become a ‘superpower’ because the Chinese have nothing to prove to the world as they know their own history as a Nation-State and as a Civilization.

  174. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    We will never really know what the Chinese government knew and when they knew it. However the official version is that the first symptoms appeared on Dec 1 , a provincial Hubei doctor reported to authorities a SARS-like disease on Dec 27, by which time cases were multiplying, and on Dec 30, some doctors in China communicate with each other about the disease

    On Dec 31 it was announced there were twenty-seven infected, seven of them critical, with a “viral pneumonia”, but (rather oddly) it was also said that no human-to-human transmission had been identified.

    [MORE]

    On Jan 1 2020 the Chinese arrested 8 people for talking about the disease. Doctors on social media a posted have since been deleted by the Chinese along with any possible earlier ones.

    On January 1 2020 Taiwan began health inspections of all flights from Wuhan. Taiwan was to go on to suffer a total of seven deaths from Covid 19. But then Taiwan is not a member of the World Health Organization.

    On Jan 14 China got the WHO to announce it was “possible there is limited” transmissibility between humans, but there was “no clear” evidence of even that “limited” transmission.

    “From the information that we have it is possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission, potentially among families, but it is very clear right now that we have no sustained human-to-human transmission,” said Maria Van Kerkhove, acting head of WHO’s emerging diseases unit

    It certainly seems the WHO took the Chinese’s word for the worst possibility being limited to family members transmitting it to each other. Basically the Chinese were putting out that the Wuhan disease was exactly like the 2003 one of SARS–not transmissible enough to cause a massive pandemic–and the WHO accepted that information, which was wrong. If, as could very easily have been the case, Covid -19 was as lethal as SARS or MERS, which killed over 10% of the infected, then hundreds of millions of people would now be dead in the West. But not many in Taiwan.


    Everybody does it including Trump (and his family) who used their family businesses to extract financial favors from foreign interests

    There is just carrots , no stick? I seem to have read of the Chinese government sanctioning Trump’s key states’ agricultural products. Trump perhaps ought to have not taken this as a sign they would be punctilious in preventing Covid-19 spreading to the US and wreaking havoc on not just Wisconsin dairy farmers. but everyone. In an election year.

    So what’s the big deal about Hunter Biden’s dealings with the Chinese? That’s how US politics works!!!

    https://youtu.be/wAx-09eWGAI?t=262

  175. Malla says:
    @Priss Factor

    But, LOL, the ‘neo-nazis’ say the Judeo-Nazis must repent for the holocaust against the Ukrainians during communism. What a shi* show.

    https://christiansfortruth.com/ukrainian-demonstrators-demand-jews-apologize-and-repent-for-communism-and-the-holodomor-genocide/

    Excellent.

    What a bunch of lunatics.

    Make goyim fight other goyim. Blacks and Whites. Catholics and Protestants. Catholics and Orthodox. West vs Russia. Japan vs other East Asians. Muslims vs Christians. Shia vs Sunni. Hindus vs Muslims. Buddhists vs Muslims, Men vs Women etc… Hitler had lamented that there would never be peace on Earth as they make dumb goyim fight other dumb goyim.

    • Replies: @Sean
  176. @Vaterland

    Chabad has also already set up shop in China and is on the way of introducing the Noahide Laws there.

    Source please.

    You are the 3rd anon that I have asked to provide a source pointing out that China is controlled by Jewish. No, kissinger is not enough. Yes, they have a jewish temple there. But to pass the 7 laws in China??? I will eat my hat if the Chinese passed any of the 7 laws. There was a push for holocaust recognition in China like a year or two ago, which the Chinese scoffed at by pointing out their own death numbers during WWII.

    Source please.

    Chinese industrialization depended on the american market is true. Cheap Chinese products kept american living standard high even though wages has been stagnant since the 80s. But what does USD getting off the gold standard so it can harvest countries through financial means have to do with any of this? It is weird how you are giving so much credit to Jews. Omfg, they are everywhere!!! They did everything!!! You are near hysterical. Chinese are impressed by the Jews because they actually took over the west. For that they would allow the take over of their own country?????????? Huge, huge logical leap there. Please source this Chinese admiration of Jews that you brought up, I am curious what drove you to that conclusion. Are you a jew?

    It isn’t a slave or prey mentality in the EU. It is the direct result of the take over of the education systems of USA and europe. If everything you read and learn tells you one thing, and constantly reinforced by the media everyday, brainwashing complete. Brainwashing is very real. It fucking works. Then you have EU laws where any and all who questions it gets send to jail. That took care of the ones resistant to the brainwashing. Take over is complete unless there is a bloody revolution.

  177. Sean says:
    @Malla

    Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live. (A. Hitler)

    We cannot–never have been able to–beat or even hold out against China by peaceful means. The European countries’ internecine wars made them military formidable and using that single advantage they blasted their way into the East.

    The triumph of Germany’s position is no surprise: EU head von der Leyen long served as Merkel’s defense minister, continues to keep close contact with the Chancellor, and was no doubt sensitive to her needs.

    What’s more, French President Emmanuel Macron was mysteriously allowed to participate in the conference call with Chinese supremo Xi Jinping, which normally should have only included the leaders of EU institutions. Presumably this was to enable the Frenchman to, yet again, play the statesman on the international stage

    Germans got fed up with having their principalities marched over, unified, and France found it could only be significant as a front for German dominance. This last year has, ought to have, shown that the end of the world is more likely to happen through trusting China to deal with existential threats to all humanity than fighting China.

    • Replies: @Rednose-airline
  178. @Sean

    @antibeast (Sorry Sean)

    No, HarmonyOS is a new OS albeit with support for Android application environments.

    Ok, so it is close source like iOS.

    TSMC is now sampling 5nm which …

    Methink it’s unknown, business secret until it works. So it is pure speculation. Intel announced some 10nm parts this week. They will have heavy research in it and maybe they tell the opposite.

    If you think China’s lease of the Gwadar Port in Pakistan and the Hambantota Port in Sri Lanka smacks of ‘debt-trap’ diplomacy

    I don’t think so, it is normal development. But there is nothing special in it, that is my point. Take a look at any ship tracker to you see the importance of this ports. Maybe nobody else will give the money because there is no much revenue. Chinese companies did for whatever reason. I don’t care.

    , then what do you think of DP World’s lease of seaports in Europe and Russia?

    Normal business, Maersk “owns” Algeciras, OOCL some else etc pp. Others ports are complete state owned or the operating company belongs to someone else or others have a stake in it. Sometimes from shipping sometimes financial industry A.s.o.

    No, it is a question of trade not power as the Chinese are not interested in geopolitics.

    You really believe that there is no Chinese geopolitics? I doubt.

    You’re right though that Chinese are at base ‘nationalists’ in political and cultural terms.

    Maybe, that means nothing. My point is that you don’t now and i don’t know the outcome of this gain in power. I doubt that it will be the peaceful paradise you intend and there are obvious signs of this. Further it had never happend. It’s a species problem, not of one race or a culture.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  179. @Sean

    We cannot–never have been able to–beat or even hold out against China by peaceful means. …

    Guys, this article is about a political statement between China and some EU-Figures. The parties imo use the trouble in the US to claim the position. Not much more. Terms like “some legal niceties still need to be worked out” support this thesis. After that it has to go the way throughout the EU ratification process with 27 countries and unknown other legislative stages.

    Expected effective date is June 2035, maybe.

    There is time left to hold the Chinese out of Europe 😉

    • Replies: @Sean
  180. antibeast says:
    @Rednose-airline

    Ok, so it is close source like iOS.

    Huawei decided to release HarmonyOS as ‘Open-Source’ software to dispel concerns about ‘sypware’ from China.

    Intel announced some 10nm parts this week.

    Intel is in deep trouble as Apple has announced that it is moving to its own in-house designed 7nm ARM-based CPUs for its MacBooks which lowers power consumption by 30% for the same performance.

    Take a look at any ship tracker to you see the importance of this ports. Maybe nobody else will give the money because there is no much revenue. Chinese companies did for whatever reason.

    The Chinese were the port developer who got to lease the land for 99 years from Sri Lanka. And like any port developer, the Chinese can now sublease port terminals or land parcels within the port to other port operators such as DP World or logistics providers such as Kerry Logistics. Think of it as a ‘real-estate’ project where the developer leased the land for 99 years, built the port infrastructure and subdivided the port area to be parceled out to other foreign or local investors.

    Before then, nobody was interested in developing the Hambantota port until the Chinese saw the potential for Sri Lanka to become the maritime hub — sort of like a Singapore — for South Asia. To think of the project as ‘debt-trap’ diplomacy is nonsense because the Chinese investors are assuming all the financial risks for the project not the Sri Lankan government.

    Same case with the Gwadar Port in Pakistan which was transferred from the PSA (Singapore) to Chinese Overseas (PRC) in 2013. PSA (Singapore) took over the Gwadar Port in 2007 after signing a 40-deal with Pakistan even though Chinese investors financed 80% of the capital to develop the port.

    It’s a species problem, not of one race or a culture.

    Methinks it’s more of a problem of geopolitics not of race nor culture. Why did Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, France and the UK venture out of Europe to explore, colonize and exploit vast areas of the Americas, Africa and Asia? Because those Western Powers were warring rivals unlike China which didn’t have any geopolitical rival in East Asia until the rise of Imperial Japan in the early 20th century.

    To prove my above point, just count the wars fought by and between those Western Powers in Europe. The rise of Imperial Germany during the late 19th century and Nazi Germany in the early 20th century posed a threat to the Western Powers which provoked WWI and WWII respectively. That’s called the Thucydides Trap.

  181. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    It certainly seems the WHO took the Chinese’s word for the worst possibility being limited to family members transmitting it to each other. Basically the Chinese were putting out that the Wuhan disease was exactly like the 2003 one of SARS–not transmissible enough to cause a massive pandemic–and the WHO accepted that information, which was wrong.

    Nowhere did the Chinese tell anyone that the Covid-19 virus resembled the 2003 SARS virus. Quite the contrary, they said it was a ‘novel’ coronavirus, something they had never seen before. That being the case, the Chinese didn’t know about the fatality and virality of the disease until a few weeks later due to the two-week ‘incubation’ period of the Covid-19 virus. In other words, Chinese reacted quite normally to an unforeseen event caused by an unknown disease which was to wait until the sudden spike of family members coming down with Covid-19 symptoms to declare that not only was the Covid-19 virus capable of human-to-human transmissions but also highly infectious due to its airborne nature.

    Simple Math:

    If t = date of primary infections, then t+14 = date of secondary infections. Between t and t+14, Chinese authorities observed no secondary infections which they dutifully informed the WHO that they found no evidence of human-to-human transmission. Between t+14 and t+23, the number of secondary infections spiked leading the Chinese authorities to conclude that human-to-human transmission occurs after the 14-day ‘incubation’ period. At t+23, China imposed the lockdown in Wuhan to prevent further spread of the Covid-19 virus on Jan. 23.

    Where’s the beef?

    • Replies: @Sean
  182. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    There is just carrots , no stick? I seem to have read of the Chinese government sanctioning Trump’s key states’ agricultural products. In an election year.

    Xi tried his best to help Trump win the farm States by having China make record purchases of corn and soybeans in the Summer and Fall of 2020, in an election year.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-grains-braun/column-u-s-corn-soybean-export-sales-smash-july-records-on-huge-china-deals-idUKKCN24W19X

  183. Sean says:
    @Rednose-airline

    An alien space fleet is heading for Earth to integrate us into the galactic economy, but it will not arrive for another fourteen years. No cause for concern.

    • Replies: @Rednose-airline
  184. @antibeast

    “That’s why UMC, GlobalFoundries and others have already given up on anything below 10nm nodes.”

    Indeed… Even Intel has given up going below 10nm now. It is going to outsource to Samsung and TSMC.

  185. @Rednose-airline

    “China has invaded and occupied Tibet. Sure there are historical justifications as each has its noble reasons. Now they claims parts of the surrounding seas. It never stops the claims on Taiwan and have unflinching aggression against this independent country.”

    I have to question people’s knowledge of history when they write such things. Taiwan is not a country. it is the only remaining territory held by the Republic of China government that lost most of the territory of China to the People’s Republic in the Chinese civil war. That government that still exists in Taiwan – on paper claims Tibet and the islands in the South China Sea as part of the Republic of China. Those are facts you can go look up

  186. @Rednose-airline

    Android is open source. Google built it’s ecosystem on top of it… They didn’t invent it. That’s a common misnomer. Harmony OS is not related to Google’s version of Android.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  187. antibeast says:
    @showmethereal

    Android is open source. Google built it’s ecosystem on top of it… They didn’t invent it. That’s a common misnomer. Harmony OS is not related to Google’s version of Android.

    Technically, AndroidOS is a Mobile OS built on top of the Linux kernel which is ‘Open-Source’ software. Google bought AndroidOS from a Silicon Valley startup founded by Andrew Rubin and then decided to release AndroidOS as ‘Open-Source’ software with its Google ecosystem built on top of AndroidOS. Anybody could use AndroidOS because it’s ‘Open-Source’ software but not the Google ecosystem which is closed-source software.

    Huawei could still use AndroidOS but not the Google ecosystem. Back in 2012, Huawei had already decided to develop its own Mobile OS called ‘HarmonyOS’ from the ground up, with support for multiple OS kernels such as Linux as well as multiple application OS environments including Android. That’s why people thought that Huawei’s HarmonyOS was a ‘fork’ of the AndroidOS because of its support for both Linux and AndroidOS, not realizing that was due to HarmonyOS’s microkernel architecture.

    HarmonyOS is now seeing widespread industry adoption among consumer electronics OEMs in China. Technically, HarmonyOS could also run on Intel PCs but US companies such as Intel are not allowed to work with Huawei which would have to come up with its own non-Intel PCs and servers running HarmonyOS.

    • Thanks: Showmethereal
  188. @Shelley

    “Slave wages of communism”

    Lol what are you smoking.

    For a population of 1.5 billion,’ its almost eliminated poverty, has the world largest middle class (400 million and growing), it minted hundreds of new billionaires this year alone.

    I think thats better than America where more then 20% of the population lives in poverty and screams about “muh dirty commies” as if thry have anything to take anyway.

  189. @Sean

    An alien space fleet is heading for Earth to integrate us into the galactic economy, but it will not arrive for another fourteen years. No cause for concern.

    Sounds a little exaggerated to me ;-).

    @antibeast

    Huawei decided to release HarmonyOS as ‘Open-Source’ software to dispel concerns about ‘sypware’ from China.

    Thanks, i am not aware of this. But why do you write ‘Open-Source’ in brackets?

    Intel is in deep trouble as Apple has announced that it is moving to its own in-house designed 7nm ARM-based CPUs for its MacBooks which lowers power consumption by 30% for the same performance.

    I doubt “the same performance”, there is no magic in chip design. Sure they will find some scenarios where this happens. But we will see.

    With the Power PC -> Intel switch you had to repurchase your software. Apple don’t cares but hyped this chip before. And there is less than 10% PC market share. Now, they risk throwing themselves out of the market. But it depends on compatibility. I think AMD is a bigger threat to Intel.

    Before then, nobody was interested in developing the Hambantota port until the Chinese saw the potential for Sri Lanka to become the maritime hub — sort of like a Singapore — for South Asia

    On an Island between the arabs and SEA with no hinterland? I don’t know what they’re planning, but I doubt it’s anything like that.

    Methinks it’s more of a problem of geopolitics not of race nor culture.

    Agree, but imo that is the outcome not the reason.

    Why did Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, France and the UK venture out of Europe to explore, colonize and exploit vast areas of the Americas, Africa and Asia? Because those Western Powers were warring rivals unlike China

    Simply because they can. China has the opportunity to invade Tibet, they did. They have the opportunity to make artificial islands to conquer the former open sea. They did. Fact is that Tibet was an independent country before. Again, there are always “reasons” like people who lived there centuries ago or old writings or “freedom and democracy” “Lebensraum” aso,

    which didn’t have any geopolitical rival in East Asia until the rise of Imperial Japan in the early 20th century.

    This is “block thinking” that establishes an Us and Them out of itself. I see it as above and below. So-called elites above and normal people below.

    Those at the top would immediately join forces if threatened from below. You can observe it in history and also in every wolf pack. As long as there is no threat, they bite, but they never kill each other.

    Now new powers come, but i am pretty sure that the old game continues as always.

    • Troll: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Sean
  190. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    https://www.cdc.gov/sars/about/faq.html
    The primary way that SARS appears to spread is by close person-to-person contact. Close contact is defined as having cared for or lived with a person known to have SARS or having a high likelihood of direct contact with respiratory secretions and/or body fluids of a patient known to have SARS. Examples include kissing or embracing, sharing eating or drinking utensils, close conversation (within 3 feet), physical examination, and any other direct physical contact between people. Incubation period for SARS is typically 2 to 7 days

    In 2012 another coronavirus called MERS with somewhat less person to person transmissibility than SARS appeared and killed a tenth of those who got it, mainly in a few South Korean hospitals. The SARS pandemic that was basically confined to China in 2003 killed approximately a third of people who got it. China did not say that Covid-19 killed a third of those who got it, so in that particular aspect they did not wrongly say not was like SARS, but the information about Wuhan disease that China supplied to the World Health Organization in January did tend to make everyone outside China think Covid-19 was similar to SARS, inasmuch while Covid-19 was quite possibly transmissible between humans, it was not transmissible enough to cause a global pandemic.

    Quite naturally the world community had a reasonable expectation that China would be be careful about information they put out to the rest of the world, especially if it was suggesting a weak at best person-to-person transmissibility by the novel Wuhan disease. Clearly, there was a danger of China putting out any any wrong information about transmissibility, because this would entail a near inevitable global catastrophe as countries with their guard not up were suddenly hit with, not the incipient beginnings of the pandemic as totalitarian China was, but the mature thing which having exponentially grown would be too big and fast for being brought under control, especially by Western liberal individualist countries like America.

    The only people who effectively suppressed Covid-19 were the Taiwanese, and they apparently* did so by at an early stage picking up on a social media post by a doctor in China. As for the matter of a fourteen days incubation period before signs of sickness appeared in those infected with Covid-19, this is a very partial truth because the average time is 5-6 days.

    There have been seventeen million farmed mink culled in Denmark because a few exhibited Covid-19, in what turned out to be mutated forms, which is further evidence for of an animal origin for the original Covid-19 virus in the markets of China where live wild animals are kept together in unhygienic conditions and slaughtered for meat. Professor Lipkin had been warning the Chinese about those markets since 2003. I think the Covid-19 virus origin was in a heedlessness by China, but they were far more effective at avoiding the worst consequences of it than America under Trump. I for one do not discount the possibility that the idea of turning the pandemic to his advantage crossed the mind of Xi.

    Taiwan’s Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. intends to make itself independent of the US and it will *aid China to do the same. Three guesses whether Biden will decide on reversing Trump’s decision to class SMIC as a national security threat and cut it off from supply of US components. Of course, Biden will maintain the US protection of Taiwan from Chinese invasion, so in that way China will be kept in a situation that makes it about as uncomfortable as Brer Rabbit in the briar patch.

    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @showmethereal
  191. Sean says:
    @Rednose-airline

    Depends whether you think there is anything to the Fermi paradox and the Chinese could cause an existential disaster, because Eliezer Yudofsky made the aliens-on-the-way analogy about Artificial General Intelligence, and said what worried him was the Russians getting some future US near-AGI technology and taking safety features off. Martin Rees warned about a biohazard killing a million people by 2020, and Professor Lipkin had been warning the Chinese about another pandemic similar to SARS for a decade before his prediction came true. He was invited to China many times because they understood he was a world authority, but they just didn’t listen when he warned about the wildlife wet markets having already originated a novel pandemic with SARS in 2003mand ought to be shut down if they wanted to avoid creating a new disease and pandemic.

    Nick Bostrom the AIpocalypse academic has spoke in conferences in China, but they also listened politely to Professor of Epidemiology W. Ian Lipkin . By the time Pete Buttigieg is president (likely VP of Harris) China’s well funded AI research/ stealing of US inventions will put us all in the danger zone as they are surely not going to learn to be careful from 2020, which worked out splendidly for them If China is as careful with Artificial General Intelligence as they were with the novel coronavirus creation problem we are doomed.

    Those at the top join forces if threatened from below sounds rather like the elites of the US and China coming together as enemies of |trump snf getting him out the White house, collaborating for their mutual advantage. Maybe ‘“block thinking” that establishes an Us and Them’ is the last best hope of humanity, because might just enable us to ponder whether trusting China entails us meeting our end in a scenario rather like the final scene of Skyline.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  192. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    You keep begging the issue here. China didn’t mislead the WHO by saying they found no evidence of human-to-human transmissions after reporting the primary infections because they found no secondary infections until weeks later. Now, you could argue that the average incubation period is less than 14 days. But suffice it to say that secondary infections could have an incubation period of up to 14 days. Many secondary infections were completely asymptomatic with the infected victims not knowing they had been infected at all.

    The stuff you keep repeating about the pangolins in the Wuhan Wet Market has been debunked early on. Just do a search on ‘pangolin wuhan rna’ to see how no RNA match was found on the live animals sold in the Wuhan Wet Market unlike in the SARS case where there was a 99% RNA match traced to a civet cat in the Guangzhou Wet Market.

    Trump’s technology bans will end up killing Silicon Valley as US technology companies lose market share to global competitors. Now everybody not just TSMC wants to become independent of US technology. How are you going to make money from your US technology if the US government bans you from doing business with your customers?

    • Replies: @Sean
  193. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) is viral respiratory illness that is new to humans. It was first reported in Saudi Arabia in 2012 and has since spread to several other countries, including the United States. Most people infected with MERS-CoV developed severe respiratory illness, including fever, cough, and shortness of breath. Many of them have died.

    Middle East respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus, infects bats, and camels. Saudi Arabia is not known for bats so I suppose experts are correct that humans catch it from camels. There is no doubt the infective agent in Covid-19 is basically a bat virus and the early cases almost without exception were associated with a particular wildlife market in Wuhan. So if someone got it from a bat in a remote region and that person went to the Wuhan market to buy or sell wildlife for meat (eating wildlife was banned early this year across China) then the essential fact is the market being open was not exactly wise.

    Now everybody not just TSMC wants to become independent of US technology.

    I’m sure. Only no one knows how to, because Americans are able to come up with new inventions so much more easily than Chinese. Clever people tended to assume the USSR would be a more dynamic society but it did not turn out that way. It was just a disguised critique of the Western societies. China is more efficient but the evidence of actual world leads in basic science. So what will probably happens is US investment is going to flow into China and cooperate joint ventures in China will drag the innovations of America along with them. Robert Reich has warned about the Pandemic stimulus money being given to US corporations and Wall Street without assurances it will not be for used investments that do not benefit US workers.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  194. Anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Those at the top join forces if threatened from below sounds rather like the elites of the US and China coming together as enemies of |trump snf getting him out the White house, collaborating for their mutual advantage. Maybe ‘“block thinking” that establishes an Us and Them’ is the last best hope of humanity, because might just enable us to ponder whether trusting China entails us meeting our end in a scenario rather like the final scene of Skyline.

    I think such “block thinking” is the norm and is accompanied by spiteful behavior towards “Them,” although this doesn’t tend to be explicitly expressed. For example, even if it were objectively the case that the probability of doomsday was much lower with AGI in China than in the US, people in the US would prefer AGI in the US and for the US and the world to meet doom rather than China to have the advantage via AGI.

  195. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    Middle East respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus, infects bats, and camels. Saudi Arabia is not known for bats so I suppose experts are correct that humans catch it from camels.

    So what? That does not imply that live animal markets are to blame for zoonotic diseases. The swine flu epidemic that swept through China came from North America which spread through pig farms. Studies have proven that human workers in pig farms show high-levels of antibodies related to the swine flu, indicating that prolonged contact exposes human workers to animal viruses in pig farms.

    Live animal markets have been around for millennia and they’re hardly the source of zoonotic diseases. Quite the contrary, large farms where animals of the same species such as pigs are herded together in close proximity with each other tend to promote the viral spread of animal viruses faster than farm raised animals or live animal markets which tend to host animals belonging to different species.

    The Western Capitalist media propaganda against live animal markets only serves to perpetuate the stereotype that farm raised animals are bad for public health. That’s simply not true at all.

    Americans are able to come up with new inventions so much more easily than Chinese. Clever people tended to assume the USSR would be a more dynamic society but it did not turn out that way. It was just a disguised critique of the Western societies.

    That must be the reason why Silicon Valley depends upon foreign-born workers, most of whom are from Asia. In fact, studies have shown that half of the startups in Silicon Valley are founded by foreign-born immigrants including TESLA which was founded by Elon Musk, an immigrant from South Africa, who also helped NASA build their rocket engines in the USA. Without Elon Musk, NASA had to depend upon Russia to supply its rocket engines which was invented by German Nazi scientists brought to the USA after WWII. And where did Elon Musk buy his rocket engines when he first started SpaceX? Russia.

    So what will probably happens is US investment is going to flow into China and cooperate joint ventures in China will drag the innovations of America along with them.

    No, US multinationals hardly do R&D in China. But Trump has banned H1-B visas for one year and has made it harder for H1-B visa holders to extend their stay and convert their H1-B visas to green cards which has affected Indian IT professionals the most. That has forced US multinationals to outsource their software R&D to India where software talent is plentiful and cheap.

    Silicon Valley hardly does semiconductor manufacturing in the USA anymore with few exceptions such as Intel. But Intel-rival AMD has already outsourced their semiconductor manufacturing to TSMC as have every fabless design house in Silicon Valley. All they own is their Silicon IP which the Trump Administration has banned from being used in semiconductor components sold to Chinese tech companies such as Huawei. A global movement is now underway in the semiconductor industry to purge semiconductor factories and designs of any US technology due to its weaponization by the Trump Administration.

    Without its Silicon, the Valley would turn into yet another California suburb of high-priced homes. That’s the likely future of Silicon Valley.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  196. Sean says:

    The swine flu epidemic that swept through China came from North America which spread through pig farms. Studies have proven that human workers in pig farms show high-levels of antibodies related to the swine flu, indicating that prolonged contact exposes human workers to animal viruses in pig farms.

    One wonders why Swine Flue came from America and yet swept through pig farms in China? Is it because in China competition is so cruel that less attention is given to being careful about anti infective measures, which cut into profits. China is all about peak efficiency.

    US multinationals are focused on shareholder value they do relatively little R&D anywhere now, the shareholders want to hear about their CEO moving the firm into China in order to get in on its growth, which everyone now accepts is going to be immense. Innovation once transformed into actual products is going to deliver the most shareholder value when it is in the Chinese market, and to aid in getting access a factory will be set up in China at which Chinese learn the proprietary techniques ‘vital manufacturing technology — accumulated through decades of learning by doing’. I take the view that the long term Chinese strategy is one of using their native work discipline and economies of scale (gigantic factory complexes) for manufacturing the new products at unbeatable quality/price. Letting western firms in on Chinese growth and sell to Chinese is a feature not a bug of technology transfer, China wants and needs America to continue to believe it is winning, not take its ball home.

    In a few words: there is no such thing as Soviet technology. Almost all — perhaps 90-95 percent — came directly or indirectly from the United States and its allies. In effect the United States and the NATO countries have built the Soviet Union. Its industrial and its military capabilities. This massive construction job has taken 50 years. Since the Revolution in 1917. It has been carried out through trade and the sale of plants, equipment and technical assistance. (Sutton 1972)

    There were economists, some very highly regarded, who thought the Soviet Union would eventually surpass the US’s GDP. Once the Soviet Union seemed to be on the verge of surpassing the US merely in narrow military production, as it did in the early Eighties, the US cut off the flow of US technology to the USSR. Simultaneously, Reagan poured money into Star Wars research, which being the property of the country not its corporations, was suddenly cut off, with results on the Soviet system that were dramatic, but peaceful.

    Biden is going to throw money at climate change (“environmental justice”), which will result in technology the Chinese will actually be encouraged to appropriate by eager Western investors. Warren Buffet made 600% on the Chinese firm making electric buses that US cities were subsidised by US government green grants to buy. The pick of Biden for transportation is Pete Buttigieg, who was also considered as ambassador to China. This next ten years of relative decline by going along with a Chinese strategy of peaceful cooperation is ultimately going to make a shooting war with China much more likely.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  197. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    Innovation once transformed into actual products is going to deliver the most shareholder value when it is in the Chinese market, and to aid in getting access a factory will be set up in China at which Chinese learn the proprietary techniques ‘vital manufacturing technology — accumulated through decades of learning by doing’. I take the view that the long term Chinese strategy is one of using their native work discipline and economies of scale (gigantic factory complexes) for manufacturing the new products at unbeatable quality/price.

    You keep making idiotic comments about how Chinese companies can only copy USA technology by having Chinese ‘ant-like’ workers mass-produce copy-cat products cheaply for the Chinese and global markets. As your last post says, technological innovation is the key to adding value to both the products and processes of any company — whether Chinese or foreign. But you’re wrong to assume the ‘Chinese’ strategy is to use the ‘native work discipline’ of Chinese ‘ant-like’ workers to achieve ‘peak efficiency’. Here’s a video of Chinese appliance manufacturer Midea and their fully automated factory in China:

    China’s strategy is to foster technology-driven not labor-intensive industries, from appliance manufacturing (above) to high-speed rail construction (below):

    You’re talking about stuff that happened 10, 20 or 30 years which has nothing to do with what’s going to happen 10, 20 or 30 years from now. You can cry over split milk for the demise of US manufacturing industries over the last five decades. But China has long ‘graduated’ from the labor-arbitrage and tax-evasion games of offshore outsourcing played by foreign multinationals. China’s GDP/capita reached $10,000 in 2020 and will surpass $20,000 after 2030. The Chinese authorities have recognized and accepted the fact that China’s role as the ‘factory of the world’ for low-cost manufacturing is long gone FOREVER! Since the GFC 2008, Chinese companies as well as foreign multinationals have been relocating their factories to developing countries in Asia, Africa, Europe and Latin America which will replace China as the low-cost manufacturing hubs of the globalized economy in the coming decades.

    • Replies: @Rednose-airline
    , @Sean
  198. @antibeast

    Here’s a video of Chinese appliance manufacturer Midea and their fully automated factory in China:

    Looks like an Hanover Fair 2002 promotion video. 😉

    @sean

    Depends whether you think there is anything to the Fermi paradox …

    Sorry, I have no idea what you’re going to tell me. That the aliens are not as unreal as I think?

    For me this whole thing here is more a philosophical debate. I don’t know the outcome, don’t even know if my impression of “the big picture” is even rudimentary correct. I try to adjust it with other peoples meaning. But I am relatively sure that my consciousness can only represent a tiny part of the gigantic stream of time. Opposite things can be true at the same time.

    What people have said there or thereabouts plays only a minor role for me. What they do is interesting for me.

    Also this whole stealing know how is rather ridiculous. First of all, it were always great minds, good teams or outstanding researchers in institutes or companies who brought all these inventions on the way.

    Those who claim that these inventions were stolen from “their country” are doing exactly the same thing. They occupies the achievement of others for there own purposes.

    Especially since “the USA” was and is not squeamish when it comes to take over other people’s achievements or to give them out as their own.

    Everybody should turn in front of his own door.

  199. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    Plagues and Peoples by historian William H. McNeill explained how trade along the Silk Road led the previously quite separate disease pools of the Chinese and Romans mixing with disastrous results for both Empires. Along with the immunological adaptations, McNeill wrote of cultural ones, which were Luddite isolationism and xenophobia. The enduring nature of these cultural traditions can be seen in Emperor Qian Long’s Letter to King George III, September 8, 1793. “Our Celestial Empire possesses all things in prolific abundance and lacks no product within its borders. There was therefore no need to import the manufactures of outside barbarians in exchange for our own produce.”

    But because China had achieved unification and the Europeans were divided, the Europeans quickly became good at exploration and cannon, then sailed and blasted their way into the East, which produced reactions such as the Boxers and then Mao’s movement. In the few years after WW2, America simply underestimated the CCP and China, which cost them dearly when almost immediately Communist Chinese took on atomic bomb armed America in Korea. Despite lacking air power and heavy weapons the Chinese used a high tempo attack and routed US forces. Eventually Eisenhower had to threaten to use thermonuclear weapons in order to disengage

    Here’s a video of Chinese appliance manufacturer Midea and their fully automated factory in China

    (Reuters) – To unclog bottlenecks last year at his Tesla Inc TSLA.O plant in California, Elon Musk flew in six planeloads of new robots and equipment from Germany to speed up battery production for its Model 3.

    Two former Axis powers that are defended by America at its taxpayers’ expense, Germany and Japan, are the world leader in robots and the country that the CCP only rules because of the insouciant 1947 ceasing of American assistance to Nationalist forces in the Chinese Civil War, is Jap/ Germany’s biggest customer for robotics. The reason for US companies building technology transferring factories in China is not the availability of cheap labour, but rather by way of a quid quo pro: in order to obtain access to the Chinese market. Artificial intelligence will soon advance to make robots capable of doing just about anything a human production line employee can do and so even Indian workers will be ruinously expensive making there absolutely no reason for anyone to have factories anywhere but in China.

    Trump’s cut off of trade and technology interaction threatened to reverse China’s rise in relative power from the nadir brought about by the above mentioned ancient plague, then came the Wuhan disease with was being discussed by Chinese doctors in now wiped social media posts by the end of December 2010. On February the 27th, 2020 Trump said he’s spoke to Xi and been told that the spread of infections in China had been declining for two days. I cannot believe that Trump dared fabricate the content of the aforementioned conversation; Xi must have deliberately misled Trump about what was heading his way. Slick! Consequently the US is under Biden, nuff said.

    There is a type of ant that farms aphids, herding them, building shelters for them, and milking a substance called honeydew out of them. Chinese are going to control us and the Western hirelings who go along with them like good little aphids will be rewarded. Eventually Europeans will learn to be satisfied with less.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  200. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    But because China had achieved unification and the Europeans were divided, the Europeans quickly became good at exploration and cannon, then sailed and blasted their way into the East.

    You have a bizarre view of world history.

    The reason why Christopher Columbus and Vasco da Gama set sail was to find new maritime routes to India. Columbus chose to cross the Atlantic hoping to reach India but ended up in Hispanola while da Gama sailed around Africa, passing the Cape of Good Hope to reach India via the Indian Ocean.

    The fact that none of these Western European Nations were powerful enough to conquer and dominate each other created the geopolitical condition called the Thucydides Trap which caused incessant conflict between these warring rivals. In addition, they had to fend off powerful Muslim Empires which controlled the Mediterranean Sea and the Arabian Peninsula, cutting off Europe’s access to the Spice Trade via the Indian Ocean. Their only way out of the Thucydides Trap was to explore, discover and colonize the Americas. The Western European Empires needed labor for their colonies which they found by importing African slaves while a steady stream of European refugees and immigrants fled the famines, revolutions, civil and religious wars of Europe to settle in the Americas.

    The geopolitics of East Asia was markedly different from that of Western Europe because the Chinese Empire dominated the whole of East Asia. After Zheng He sailed to explore, discover and trade with Southeast Asia, India and Africa, he came back with a boatload of coconuts, spices and giraffes which forced the Ming Emperor to stop future voyages due to lack of economic interest. In other words, China’s motive was to trade not to conquer even though the Chinese Empire was the richest and most powerful Empire in the world at the time. With no geopolitical rivals at home in East Asia, China didn’t have any reason to colonize Southeast Asia, India or Africa.

    In summary, the geopolitics of Western Europe caused incessant warfare amongst Western European Nations which forced them to venture out into the Americas while the geopolitics of East Asia caused China to turn inward due to the absence of any economic interest in venturing out of East Asia.

    • Replies: @Sean
  201. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    If I remember my history, Columbus was commissioned by the first Queen of Spain who had been mopping up the last of the Muslims occupying Spain. The only conflict within Christianity in Spain at that time was with endogamous racial Jews–ostensibly Catholic–who rose to prominence in all institutions including the Church and began to dominate the newly unified and freed Spanish society. The rival of Spain at this time war was another Catholic power: France. Because it was necessary to use the common people to fight wars, after several bloody uprisings/ riots against the Jews the Spanish monarchy was forced to listen to the clerics that articulated anti Converso sentiment and divest themselves of the court crypto Jews, who were unpopular with the non-noble Spaniards.

    As a result of the discoveries of Columbus, Spain under the Hapsburgs was set on the path to a universal monarchy by the silver of the New World. Other powers’ expeditions then colonies inevitably had geopolitical and military significance. The origin and font of Britain’s foreign investments was the loot Sir Francis Drake plundered from Spain in the America. Britain was the rogue state if the day but not powerful enough to do anything much on the content against the Hapsburgs. What most of the European war were about was who would control the German nation. Eventually the Germans got tired of having their principalities stomped over by French armies and their allies such as Sweden (Protestant Sweden was backed by Catholic France in the Thirty Years war) and united then started kicking the French around. The large population military autocracies of the Continent France, briefly Russia then, Germany then the USSR were outmatched by Britain’s overseas possessions/ ally and sea power. It ended when Germany became cocooned within Nato, surrounded by friendly states for the first time in its history. Germany then began slowly suffocating the rest of Europe with a common currency that functioned as an export promotion program for German manufacturers and German taxpayers appeared happy to shell out for. France especially under Macron has went along because greedy French banks need Germany stand surety for them. Britain was stronger with its City of London international dirty money, so the freedom of movement immigration into the UK outraged Brits and led to the UK leaving the EU. In February last year Sinophile Boris Johnson (his phone was a Huawei P20), he told Xi “I love China”, and gave China’s Huawei the UK 5G contract. Only because the US threatened to cut off Britain’s access to secret intelligence did Jonson do a U turn.

    In history the power taking a run at hegemony or being perceived as doing so, gets balanced against.
    But China is different inasmuch no one in their right mind is going to try and win a land war in Asia against China, not after the examples of Vietnam and Korea. Much more importantly, China’s economic growth is what the hypercapitalist Western elite are banking on. Although it does not seem consistent with their paymasters’ expectation of huge profits, the front men like Biden seem to think that the challenge posed by China is purely military or it is nothing.

    A key economic advantage of China I would like to introduce is that the liberal individualist ethos of the West powerfully handicaps it in the era of big-data information capitalism. The social order of China is preadapted to the harvesting of the most intimate and extensive personal data and using it to re-engineer a population’s behavior for maximum profit

    BYPASSING conscious awareness, these technologies track human sensations and emotions more minutely than human beings can do themselves. Eventually surveillance will be omnipresent and thereby invisible. As the former executive chairman of Alphabet and Google Eric Schmidt predicted in 2015, “The internet will disappear. There will be so many IP addresses… so many devices, sensors, things that you are wearing, things that you are interacting with, that you won’t even sense it. It will be part of your presence all the time.” Seamlessly woven into everyday life, technologies of monitoring and control will fashion a world different from any that existed before. The ultimate end of surveillance capitalism is a way of life in which people have surrendered their humanity without realising it.

    The growth of the Chinese economy will be exponential. All the innovation in the world from clever people attracted to America by its freedoms will not compensate for the stultifying effect those freedoms have on US growth. America will grow very fast; yes, but relative power is the thing and the USA is going be standing still compared to China. America is going to have its lunch eaten.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @antibeast
  202. Anonymous[226] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    A key economic advantage of China I would like to introduce is that the liberal individualist ethos of the West powerfully handicaps it in the era of big-data information capitalism. The social order of China is preadapted to the harvesting of the most intimate and extensive personal data and using it to re-engineer a population’s behavior for maximum profit

    I don’t know if this is accurate. See for example the recent crackdown on Jack Ma and other entrepreneurs, the large and enduring role of SOEs in China, etc. There’s a strong tendency towards stability and conservatism over efficiency and profit.

    Also America today is very different ethno-culturally. During its rise in the 19th century, it was demographically and culturally majority WASP with strong Protestant values. During its peak in the mid 20th century, it was still mostly northern European demographically, with a legacy WASP elite with still some influence, albeit in decline and decadence and no longer ascendant. Since the mid 20th century, the US has been dominated by an Ashkenazi elite, and ethnically and culturally it has been increasingly less northern European and more non-white.

    In 1900, 57% of US whites had blue eyes. In 1940, 34% of US whites had blue eyes. In 2000, 22% of US whites had blue eyes. This gives us a good idea of the decline of northern European predominance in the US, and this is just looking within the US white population. It’s even more significant if we consider the increase in the non-white population of the US.

    In the case of the US, the recent past is literally a different country.

    • Replies: @Sean
  203. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    That was a long history lesson. But my point remains that the geopolitics of Western Europe was what propelled Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, France and England to venture out of their home region, cross the Atlantic and colonize the Americas, not because of genetics, culture nor ‘Evul White Man’ PC dogma. Before Germany was politically unified in 1871, the Germans were constantly being used as either cannon fodder or guinea pigs by the Western Powers in their internecine wars over territory, religion, power, etc. Germany then became so successful in industrializing its economy that the Germans became an existential threat to the Western Powers, then led by the British and the French, which led to WWI and WWII.

    In history the power taking a run at hegemony or being perceived as doing so, gets balanced against.

    What Germany faced was the classic Thucydides Trap in Western Europe as did the Republic of China in East Asia after Imperial Japan felt threatened by the success of Chiang Kai-shek’s partnership with Germany.

    But China is different inasmuch no one in their right mind is going to try and win a land war in Asia against China, not after the examples of Vietnam and Korea.

    Ever since Mao turned China into a ‘nuclear power’, the US has not been able to start any wars in East Asia. And that was before North Korea became another ‘nuclear power’. With three Nuclear-armed States — China, Russia and North Korea — pitted against two non-Nuclear States — South Korea and Japan, the US does not have any military option to change that geopolitical reality in East Asia. Both Japan and South Korea fully recognize and accept this geopolitical reality as they can not possibly survive a nuclear war against three Nuclear-armed States nor would the USA sacrifice itself to fight a nuclear war to save them.

    Much more importantly, China’s economic growth is what the hypercapitalist Western elite are banking on. Although it does not seem consistent with their paymasters’ expectation of huge profits, the front men like Biden seem to think that the challenge posed by China is purely military or it is nothing.

    The US Deep State views China’s rise as an existential threat to the hegemony of the USD Empire. Without any effective military means of ‘containing’ China geo-politically as proven by the failure of Obama’s Pivot to East Asia, the US Deep State now wants to try ‘containing’ China geo-economically by siphoning off industrial supply-chains away from China. That was the purpose of the TPP which Trump junked in favor of his “America First” ideology. Next they tried the ‘Indo-Pacific’ strategy which calls for using India to siphon off manufacturing industries away from China. But Trump junked that too by imposing tariffs on Indian exports and restricting H1-B visas from India. They could try ‘decoupling’ the USA from China financially but would kill the US economy because China supports the USD as the de-facto international reserve currency.

    The growth of the Chinese economy will be exponential. All the innovation in the world from clever people attracted to America by its freedoms will not compensate for the stultifying effect those freedoms have on US growth. America will grow very fast; yes, but relative power is the thing and the USA is going be standing still compared to China. America is going to have its lunch eaten.

    Xi wants China to transition to a ‘green economy’ by investing in alternative energy industries, high-speed rail, electric vehicles, robotics, smart cities as well as promote knowledge-based technology and services industries. Trump wants the USA to revive its ‘carbon economy’ by investing in the oil & gas fracking industries, steel and aluminum manufacturing, petrochemicals and plastics industries as well as promote heavy industries and auto manufacturing.

    China will get to eat its own ‘green lunch’ while the USA will get to eat its own ‘carbon emissions’.

    • Replies: @Sean
  204. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    Re Jack Ma, yes I understand the point of view you are illustrating, and Americans would say that kind of government totalitarianism inhibits economic growth. What was it that Bush said about the French having no word for entrepreneur! While I think US culture will linger on, the idea that the composition of the population altering will have a bad effect on economic growth is correct. As Peter Frost has written the Old Americans were innately high in trust and able to deal with strangers much more easily. Those replacing them will be wary of each other and make economic transactions far more risky and involved. On the other hand, there will be blockchain technology and suchlike to make things more relaxed.

    However, the real generator of capital is through knowledge-based technology. China can do stuff like arrest the country’s second richest man, Chinese companies are backed by the government in many cases; they can mine data on the population to an unlimited extent and use it in a way that simply will not be possible in the US with a tradition of privacy, liberal individualism, and freedom from surveillance. So US innovation will not be as much of an advantage as one might assume.

    Industrial capitalism depended upon the exploitation and control of nature, with catastrophic consequences that we only now recognise. Surveillance capitalism depends instead upon the exploitation and control of human nature,” writes Shoshana Zuboff, a professor in the Harvard Business School. The prototypes of surveillance capitalism are Google and Facebook, which extract information from their users and deploy it to re-engineer their behaviour for maximum profit. Human experience is raw material to be mined. Individual autonomy is usurped by ubiquitous monitoring, with techniques of behaviour modification digging deep into what was once a private and subjective world. Personal experience is commodified, and reshaped in the interests of capital. Whatever utopian claims may have been made for it as a force that emancipates individuals, this is a type of collectivism that subverts what has in the past been described as free will.

    So I would stand by the characterization of China’s arrangements and literal DNA as preadapted to facilitate the harvesting of the most intimate and extensive personal data , in a way that America’s individualist taboos will make impossible. There is going to be a firestorm of economic activity in China over the next decade or so. America will grow very fast; yes, but Chinese growth will be exponential. Relative power is the thing and the USA is going be standing still compared to China, well within a generation. I estimate that after Biden Harris, disquiet like that over the perceived stagnation under Eisenhower, will bring a very much less risk avers man to power. By about 2035, a JFK type figure will be quite likely to decide a limited (naval) war is necessary, or at least worth a try.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  205. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    What Germany faced was the classic Thucydides Trap in Western Europe

    The British considered the French the enemy into the 20th century. See the 1898 Fashoda Incident. Imperial Germany was not worried about because it was balanced by Tsarist Russia, It was the defat of Russia by Japan and the 1905 Revolution that reduced Russia to chaos and made Germany a serious threat, not anything Germany did. The Kaiser made a huge mistake in not immediately attacking in the West, actually the Germans placed far too much emphasis on naval preparation especially the Kiel ship canal (the completion date was predicted by Sir John Fisher the half Malaysian head of the Admiralty to be when the war would start. He was out by two weeks).

    Obama gave Russia fracking technology, which was good news for China but not the environment. We know what to expect from President Joe

    Biden Will Normalize Chinese Relations And Collaborate On …www.forbes.com › sites › kensilverstein › 2020/11/22
    22 Nov 2020 — Immediately, American energy producers have a keen interest in selling their oil and natural gas to China — something that is near impossible …

    Obama’s TPP agreement gave SK and Jap easy access to the US market, and resulted in an annoyed China giving Kim the wherewithal to cause trouble. China did not accept TPP and Obama couldn’t work out what to do about Xi catspaw Kim. Trump’s tariffs made China up the ante, which is why North Korea has ICBMs and maybe close to nuclear warheads ready for them. Kim is threatening to hit the Continental United States not Japan or Korea which are in fact essential suppliers to China.

    As already mentioned, the reason for US companies building technology transferring factories in China is to get in on the ground floor of the expected explosive growth of the Chinese home market. Artificial intelligence robots will soon make even Indian workers too expensive. All factories will be in China. The pandemic created by Chinese carelessness and then dissimilation to Trump will result in massive stimulus money in the US, which will go straight to China, where the best returns are. There is no way for the US population to avoid realizing by 2031 that China cannot be stopped by economic means Just as the perceived stagnation under Eisenhower brought the reckless JFK to power, Around the year 2035, the US willing be in a ‘bear any burden’ mood and begin to seriously consider a conventional military (naval) confrontation with China. This will be nothing ‘Deep State but rather Deep Nation; the common people’s plain common sense.

    • Troll: showmethereal
    • Replies: @antibeast
    , @Anonymous
  206. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    The British considered the French the enemy into the 20th century.

    Yes, the British had always the considered the French to be their arch-rivals ever since the Hundred Years War between the English and the French. But Bismarck’s successful reunification and industrialization of Germany turned it into an Imperial Power overnight which changed the ‘balance of power’ in Western Europe by early 20th century. Under Bismarck, the Germans succeeded in creating the world’s first Welfare State and in industrializing the Germany economy based on scientific disciplines such as Engineering, Physics and Chemistry where the Germans excelled and achieved international acclaim. In due time, the Western Powers began to view and treat the rise of Imperial Germany as an existential threat. That’s the Thucydides Trap that Imperial Germany fell into which caused both WWI and WWII.

    The reason for US companies building technology transferring factories in China is to get in on the ground floor of the expected explosive growth of the Chinese home market. Artificial intelligence robots will soon make even Indian workers too expensive. All factories will be in China.

    Where did you get the idea that ‘all US factories will be in China’? Below are two graphs which disprove your claim that ‘all US factories will be in China‘:

    The first graph above shows the market share of auto production in the world by country of production. Note how the US share declined from 75% in 1950 to less than 15% by 2015.

    The second graph above shows the net exports of autos and auto parts between the USA and its trading partners. Note which countries exports the most to the USA — Japan, Mexico, Germany, Canada — in that order with China showing zero net exports which implies a balanced trade in autos and auto parts with the USA.

    The decline of US auto and auto parts manufacturing industries which used to be the biggest employer of blue-collar factory jobs in the USA was caused not by China but by foreign competition from Germany and Japan as well as the exodus of US factories to Mexico and Canada under NAFTA. Other upstream industries such as steel, aluminum, plastics and rubber tires manufacturing also disappeared as auto and auto parts factories moved South to Mexico or North to Canada.

    • Replies: @Sean
  207. @Sean

    “In 2012 another coronavirus called MERS with somewhat less person to person transmissibility than SARS appeared and killed a tenth of those who got it, mainly in a few South Korean hospitals”

    MERS was particularly in the Middle East (ME-RS)

    “The only people who effectively suppressed Covid-19 were the Taiwanese, and they apparently* did so by at an early stage picking up on a social media post by a doctor in China.”

    That is patently false and western media disinformation. Taiwan health authorities were the first people allowed into Wuhan. It was then that they reported to the WHO that they believed it may be transferred human to human. There was no spy nor the stupidity of going off of some social media post.
    Even anti Mainland SCMP from Hong Kong reported it back in January – back before it was too early in the story to spin it otherwise. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3045756/mainland-chinese-authorities-allow-two-taiwan-specialists-visit

  208. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    The British did not intervene in the Franco-Prussian War to stop Germany uniting, so a united Germany was not considered a danger, and even after Bismarck’s unification of Germany, war against France. and annexation of Alsace -Lorraine in 1870, there remained no kind of military understanding between France and Britain against Germany until after 1905 when Russia was knocked out the equation. I understand that Germany was rising, but the fact is what the Germans did was not the crucial factor, they were just too damn big a country for France to cope with alone, which France suddenly was faced with doing in 1905, when Russia was clearly in no position to balance Germany.

    Originally, Prussia had survived through being subsidized by Britain as a counterweight to its enemy France. Somewhat similarly, begining with Nixon’s visit to China it was built up by the USA as a Cold War counterweight to the USSR which was considered the massive threat. Then can the American victory in the Cold War and the USSR being reduced to the Russian Federation, which is is no serious threat. In the absence of a powerful Russia, China is increasingly taking on the mantle of the dangerous unbalanced power. It did not have to do anything, just like Germany did not.

    China is not only ten times the size of Japan, which as you say eliminated swathes of US industry, it is maybe a bit better than Japan at paying the manufacturing game. It is becoming obvious that the US cannot leave it to the market.

    The decline of US auto and auto parts manufacturing industries which used to be the biggest employer of blue-collar factory jobs in the USA was caused not by China but by foreign competition from Germany and Japan

    Quite, but Germany and Japan are US allies. Communist China is not, and the productive capacity of the world being based in China, apart from those factories the Chinese firms have in the US (like the electric bus one) in order to circumvent American attempts to favour US firms is becoming a reality. Free market America is helpless in the face of Chinese economic dynamism.

    Congress Wants to Ban Chinese Buses, Railcars in Defense Billwww.wsj.com › articles › congress-wants-to-ban-chinese-…
    10 Dec 2019 — Lawmakers are also poised to ban U.S. military from buying Chinese drones.

    Biden is going to turn the US into a convenience store for China. American capital (especially the pandemic stimulus money), cheap energy, and technology will flow into China, and the hypercapitalist Western elite growing rich beyond the dreams of avarice will exhibit cognitive dissonance about how relatively powerful China is becoming. You can forget about the Deep State, the profound strategic turns in thinking are products of the deep nation, which is populist mass movements of common people such as backed Trump in his quest to stop America’s slide to second rate status. Trump was bellicose, but actually very cautious about military action. I expect the slide under Biden-Harris to produce a reaction by 2035, and a less cautious young JFK type in the White House. Russia will be needed and may refuse to play ball, because there is a venal Russian elite that China can pay off .

    • Replies: @antibeast
  209. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    The British did not intervene in the Franco-Prussian War to stop Germany uniting, so a united Germany was not considered a danger, and even after Bismarck’s unification of Germany, war against France. and annexation of Alsace -Lorraine in 1870, there remained no kind of military understanding between France and Britain against Germany until after 1905 when Russia was knocked out the equation. I understand that Germany was rising, but the fact is what the Germans did was not the crucial factor, they were just too damn big a country for France to cope with alone, which France suddenly was faced with doing in 1905, when Russia was clearly in no position to balance Germany.

    You have a strange view of world history, trying to blame WWI on the Russians for failing to balance Germany.

    Of course, England didn’t stop German unification because no English territory was involved in Bismarck’s unification of Germany. But that didn’t stop England from conspiring with France to ‘contain’ Imperial Germany which became Europe’s most powerful nation due to its highly successful industrialized economy by the early 20th century. The Industrial Revolution which started in England in the mid-18th century didn’t spread to Germany until after it was politically unified by Bismarck in 1871. The same process happened in Japan which saw rapid industrialization after the Meiji Restoration in 1868. After Japan’s success in defeating both China and Russia in the First Sino-Japanese War and First Russo-Japanese War respectively, England joined Japan in the Anglo-Japanese Alliance in 1902 in order to ‘contain’ Russia in the Far East as well as to protect England’s colonial interests in China.

    Imperial Germany emerged as an industrialized power in Western Europe thereby posing an existential threat to the incumbent powers England and France. But the Germans didn’t do anything to England which then conspired with France to ‘contain’ Germany. That was the Thucydides Trap that caused WWI and later WWII. The Treaty of Versailles stripped Germany of its colonial interests worldwide including those in China which was handed over to Japan! The debt burden imposed on Germany was designed to cripple the German economy which quickly became an industrial power again after WWI. Both the English and the French wanted to destroy German industry by imposing the Treaty of Versailles which stripped Germany of its European lands and non-European colonies. So onerous was the Treaty of Versailles that it directly caused Hitler’s rise to power which started WWII.

    Russia had absolutely nothing to do with the predicament of Germany in the first half of the 20th century. Germany had the misfortune of being a Western Power facing two Western Powers in Western Europe while Japan had the fortune of being the East Asian Power which didn’t pose any existential threat to the Western Powers in East Asia. England entered into an alliance with Japan but felt threatened by and then decided to ‘contain’ Germany. That was the Thucydides Trap which caused WWI and WWII.

    The rest of your post is non sequitur. My last post proved that US auto manufacturing industries had been declining for five decades due to foreign competition by US allies such as Germany and Japan before China’s entry to the WTO which allowed US automakers to ‘outsource’ their auto manufacturing to China to serve the Chinese not the USA market. NAFTA allowed US automakers to ‘outsource’ their auto manufacturing to Canada and Mexico whose auto exports to the USA rose dramatically afterwards. That had nothing to do with China at all. Here’s a graph showing the market share of auto brands in China:

  210. Sean says:

    Originally, the problem for Britain was that after it had its desired commercial penetration of the entire Chinese market, other countries of which Russia was the most powerful, started establishing control over chunks of China. If the British Empire industrialist point of view could be said to be represented by anyone it would be Birmingham manufacturer turned Imperialist politician Joseph Chamberlain, who had successfully slapped down the French in West Africa.

    Wilhelmine Germany was focused on overseas naval aping of Britain and desirous of establishing control over Samoa. Chamberlain gave the Germans what they asked for in Samoa because he wanted to have an Anglo American alliance with Germany against Russian designs on China; this would have entailed Britain also opposing Russia’s ally France and Germany ceasing to have China as an ally against Russia. However the Germans seem to have read all this as a sign their position was extremely strong while Britain was growing desperate. As a consequence of their dubious interpretation of his initiative, Germany repeatedly led on then rebuffed Chamberlain’s overtures.

    Germany criticized British conduct in the Boer war, but Britain almost went to war with Russia in 1904 over the Russian fleet mistakenly attacking British north sea trawlers. In the aftermath of the Russian humiliation by Japan and revolution of 19o5. Germany attempted to bully France (the Morocco crisis) fulfilling fear of Germany without the Russian deterrent, thereby cementing France into a military understanding with Britain.

    The loss of jobs in traditional industries has multiple trends behind it, but an important one is the Western business class does not like those factories in their own countries because they foster working class organization and that leads to political power. Finance capitalism is safer for the elite. Investors stick with Elon Musk because he is the AntiFord: it makes him sick to employ humans with good pay and big pensions. He’d rather get some more robots from Germany and continue to lose money while prove the Gigafactory concept, which is indeed the future. Global productive capacity is only going to be more automated and concentrated in China as time goes on.

    Russia will supply China with resources and energy. America under Biden will supply very low cost energy (massive capital investment in fracking makes s US energy cheap) and technical innovation. China won’t need to overtake America in technical invention and China is not going to waste money in a build up its military forces, so lulled by an apparently easy-going China, America will inexorably get further and further behind in all aspects of productive capacity. A hypercapitalist elite running America through front men like Biden and make lots of money It will seem to the American leadership that everything is going swimmingly.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  211. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    The loss of jobs in traditional industries has multiple trends behind it, but an important one is the Western business class does not like those factories in their own countries because they foster working class organization and that leads to political power.

    That’s not true at all. Western countries such as Germany, UK, Italy, etc. still export lots of autos — mostly high-end luxury brands and their auto parts made in Europe — such as BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, Jaguar, Land Rover, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, etc. That’s true as well for Japan and South Korea but not for mass-market models which the German, Japanese and South Korean automakers tend to outsource their manufacturing to the destination markets in order to reduce production costs as well as save money on shipping and tariffs. The problem with US automakers is that they don’t have high-end luxury brands that can compete against German, British and Italian automakers other than Cadillac and TESLA but that’s about it. There’s no US equivalent of BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, Jaguar, Land Rover, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, etc.

    Finance capitalism is safer for the elite. Investors stick with Elon Musk because he is the AntiFord: it makes him sick to employ humans with good pay and big pensions. He’d rather get some more robots from Germany and continue to lose money while prove the Gigafactory concept, which is indeed the future.

    Wall Street finance capitalism had nothing do with the global auto manufacturing industries adopting industrial robotics which was pioneered by Japanese and German automakers but which encountered hostility from US labor unions in Detroit. That’s why US automakers opted to move their factories to maquiladoras in Mexico rather than continue dealing with recalcitrant US labor unions in Detroit. Since Mexican labor costs were substantially lower than union labor in Detroit, US automakers delayed investing in industrial robotics for decades until forced to do so by German and Japanese automakers setting up shop in the American South which didn’t have labor unions at all. That’s when industrial robotics in US auto manufacturing really took off, led by German and Japanese automakers then followed by US automakers.

    Wall Street rewarded US automakers for moving their factories to Mexico which accelerated after the passage of NAFTA. But Wall Street didn’t drive the adoption of industrial robotics; that came from German and Japanese automakers which faced high labor costs in Germany and Japan.

    Global productive capacity is only going to be more automated and concentrated in China as time goes on.

    Global manufacturing industries in the future will become integrated into regional supply-chains where final assembly will be done by robots or humans in the destination markets. China’s economic strategy has changed from being the ‘factory of the world’ to becoming the ‘market of the world’ where new ideas, new designs, new technologies, new products and new industries are created, tested and marketed. Here’s a good video on why China is so important for TESLA:

    Manufacturing can be done anywhere on this planet by robots or humans as close as possible to their destination markets to save on time to market as well as to lower production, shipping and tariff costs. You seem to be stuck in the 20th century just like Trump who think that manufacturing is the future of US industries. That’s why Trump replaced NAFTA with the USMCA which mandates a production quota of cars and trucks to be manufactured in the USA.

    • Replies: @Sean
  212. Anonymous[380] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Around the year 2035, the US willing be in a ‘bear any burden’ mood and begin to seriously consider a conventional military (naval) confrontation with China. This will be nothing ‘Deep State but rather Deep Nation; the common people’s plain common sense.

    You have to consider demographics. There was a youth bulge with the baby boomers at the time, and there had been several decades of no immigration.

    There have been now decades of high immigration and low levels of native fertility, and the boomers are starting to die off. By the mid-2030s, the country will be demographically very different.

  213. Anonymous[461] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    China can do stuff like arrest the country’s second richest man, Chinese companies are backed by the government in many cases; they can mine data on the population to an unlimited extent and use it in a way that simply will not be possible in the US with a tradition of privacy, liberal individualism, and freedom from surveillance. So US innovation will not be as much of an advantage as one might assume.

    China has always suppressed its mercantile class. So this is nothing new. Whereas the mercantile class in the West has been a powerful independent class of its own and was the dominant element in the revolutions and establishment of modern Western states. It’s instructive that at the dawn of the Age of Discovery, Chinese bureaucrats destroyed their shipping fleets while Western merchants in alliance with their governments and aristocrats were beginning ocean exploration of the world and the establishment of trading empires.

    The US uses legalistic workarounds and appeals to national security to get around its nominal protections of individual privacy. In practice, I don’t know if it’s much different than the more heavy handed Chinese approach. Arguably more effective because people tend to be unwitting when privacy is taken for granted.

    Also, I don’t see the US approach of privatizing data mining to oligarchs and large corporations as being less effective than Chinese government control of private enterprise.

  214. Sean says:

    China was huge unified and advanced, so it needed nothing and rested on its laurels, but I think there is now a consensus that China minding its own business was a mistake because it led to China being bullied and being forced to concede control of its national territory to a variety of states, some from the other side of the world. Now the Chinese government is looking outward for opportunities. The Chinese have no aversion to getting rich, so the only way business gets into trouble is when they criticize the government regulation, as Ma did. No one in China would be surprised at that getting one into trouble.

    I don’t see the US approach of privatizing data mining to oligarchs and large corporations as being less effective than Chinese government control of private enterprise.

    No offence, but I think the attitude coming through from you is quite indicative of what I am talking about as regards Western liberal individualist bias for personal freedom, which while it does have advantages in fostering innovation and creativity is hardly going to facilitate the freest flow of information for getting the maximum economic activity from the new technology invented by the W.E.I.R.D.. America is the unworldly inventor, China the corporation.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  215. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    European luxury brands like Porsche are different because their cachet is somewhat dependent on them not being built in China and being expensive. An elite with a taste for conspicuous consumption exists in every country, but the really massive sales are in a somewhat less prestigious part of the market. That video points out that China is the country where the most cars in the world are being made, and that Tesla has to make cars there to sell them there. Also that the competition for Tesla is from BYD. Warren Buffet made 600% on his investment in BYD. Musk and Buffet are both investing in China, which gets cutting edge Gigafactories built there too. Factories that are full of German capital goods by the way.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  216. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    You missed my point about why US automakers could not compete against German luxury brands such as Porsche which is that Ford and GM do not have high-end luxury brands that could match German luxury brands imported to China. US automakers are not globally competitive against German automakers who command an astonishing 80% global market share in the luxury sedan market. German brands such as BMW and Mercedes command such a high premium in China that even US auto exports to China are mostly BMW and Mercedes models made in the USA. Here’s a graphic showing that almost 70% of the US-made autos exported to China are German brands BMW and Mercedes:

    I posted that video to show why TESLA had to be in China because it is home to 50% of the world market in EVs as well as the largest market for luxury autos in the world. TESLA had to build its Gigafactory in China to save on shipping, tariffs and time to market as well as become eligible for buyer rebates given by China to spur EVs sales. TESLA is also building a Gigafactory in Berlin for the same reason. Given Trump’s well-known hostility to EVs when he threatened GM for wanting to shift to EVs, Elon Musk simply had no choice but to bet the farm on China. Soon thereafter, TESLA stock went up and Musk became the world’s richest person.

    • Replies: @Sean
  217. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    That Ford does not export many American made cars to China is hardly evidence against my line of reasoning, I will note that Ford’s joint venture manufacturing facilities in China (built there in preference to Mexico) are doing very well indeed.

    Elon Musk simply had no choice but to bet the farm on China.

    Business is about making maximum profit, so a businessman only one way to go. However a government is under no obligation to let its policy be dictated by the numbers. And China’s reaction to Musk has been to up subsidies to the Chinese government backed eclectic car maker that is a rival of Tesla in China. Another rival of Tesla is in China though not openly backed by the government is BYD

    BYD, the electric vehicle maker backed by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway, may be recalibrating plans to expand sales of California-built battery buses to U.S. transit agencies as bipartisan legislation heading to the White House excludes China-based suppliers from federal transportation funds–even if their vehicles are made at U.S. factories

    Buffet made 600% on an investment on BYD, which built a factory in California. Cities proudly defied Trump by buying BYD’s buses and were given Federal environmental funds to do so. Good luck to any Chinese city that tried to use government grants to buy Tesla vehicle. I am sure you will say that all this is not part of some plan by the Chinese, but it doesn’t really matter why. It is happening. And the only politician that was going to half it has been defeated. You think Buffet, Tesla and Uber ( partners with Chinese electric car firms in a special ride sharing car) ECT are not going to throw money into lobbing and political contributions to make sure no one like Trump ever gets elected again? there is no similar way to affect the Chinese leadership. In a competition between two countries of similar capabilities, one of which has a business class powerful in politics and another country in which the wealthiest man in the country simply disappears if he speaks out of turn about government red tape, the latter must win.

    Success in trade with China is only ever within certain limits, and the Chinese look at trade from a geopolitical perspective. The current troubles of Australia are a good example. Australian has a lock on the supply of a high quality iron ore and as businesses tend to do when they have the supply of what is in demand, the companies have found reasons to hike the price. China needs the iron ore so it continues to buy that, but suddenly all kinds of other commodities that Australia sells to China are being found fault with and obstructed. Similarly to Australia, America cannot coordinate its exports in the way CCP China can. Internal economic freedom hamstrings a country.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  218. Anonymous[373] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    No offence, but I think the attitude coming through from you is quite indicative of what I am talking about as regards Western liberal individualist bias for personal freedom, which while it does have advantages in fostering innovation and creativity is hardly going to facilitate the freest flow of information for getting the maximum economic activity from the new technology invented by the W.E.I.R.D.. America is the unworldly inventor, China the corporation.

    I understand your point. I’m not some sort of free market/libertarian ideologue who assumes that the liberal way is always best. But I disagree that the Chinese government monopolizing things will necessarily be more effective. Moreover, I dispute that the US arrangement is very free market and liberal in the first place.

    • Replies: @Sean
  219. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    Another rival of Tesla is in China though not openly backed by the government is BYD.

    BYD mainly sells in the public EV market and does not compete against TESLA in the luxury EV market.

    Buffet made 600% on an investment on BYD, which built a factory in California. Cities proudly defied Trump by buying BYD’s buses and were given Federal environmental funds to do so. Good luck to any Chinese city that tried to use government grants to buy Tesla vehicle. I am sure you will say that all this is not part of some plan by the Chinese, but it doesn’t really matter why. It is happening. And the only politician that was going to half it has been defeated.

    Methinks you’re grasping at straws here because your Strawman — ‘Communist China’ — had nothing to do with the failure of US automakers to compete against German and Japanese automakers in China and elsewhere. By citing BYD which counts Warren Buffet as an investor, you’re throwing another Strawman — BYD — which has nothing to do with US automakers Ford and GM. There are 200 EV manufacturers in China with startups such as NIO competing against TESLA in the luxury EV market. Nothing special about BYD which sells mainly in the public EV market. And no, Chinese cities don’t buy luxury EVs for public transportation.

    The reason why TESLA has a better chance of succeeding in the Chinese market is due to its focus on the luxury EV market unlike Ford and GM which don’t have any luxury brands to compete against BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Land Rover, Jaguar, etc. Instead, Ford and GM compete in the mass-market segment which is the most price-sensitive and cost-conscious of the auto industry. That’s where the Japanese. South Korean and Chinese automakers pre-dominate due to their high-volume, low-margin business model. You seem obsessed with blaming the Chinese State which had nothing to do with the failure of US automakers to compete against German and Japanese automakers in the USA, China or elsewhere. And you’ve even cited Australia’s trade spat with China which is completely irrelevant to this thread.

    Trump didn’t understand why US automakers couldn’t compete against German, Japanese, South Korean, British and Italian automakers. He thinks that’s due to some kind of a conspiracy by ‘Communist China’ to make sure that Ford and GM fail to compete against BMW, Daimler-Benz, Bentley, Jaguar, Ferrari, Honda, Toyota, Mazda, etc. in the global marketplace. Trump was even livid at GM for shifting to EVs and threatened to slap tariffs on Ford and GM for moving ALL their production of passenger sedans to Mexico. No more passenger sedans ‘Made in USA’ but ‘Hecho en Mexico‘ for Ford and GM. But that has nothing to do with ‘Communist China’ but everything to do with the tariffs on steel and aluminum imposed by Trump.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Showmethereal
  220. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    Who brought up that Musk is the words richest man because of the great business he is doing in China, which Wall Street loves? Mentioning Buffett’s biggest returns coming from BYD, which has US workers in US factories making electric buses that the US firms cannot successfully compete with in the US in free competition, is me agreeing with you about the superiority of the Chinese. And US cities are using Federal grants to buy BYD’s green buses. So they win every way, and that is why everyone agrees US cities need to be banned from getting those grants to buy buses from Chinese firms, whether the factory is in the US and using US components or not. Similarly:

    Trump didn’t understand why US automakers couldn’t compete against German, Japanese, South Korean…He thinks that’s due to some kind of a conspiracy by ‘Communist China’ to make sure that Ford and GM fail to compete against BMW, ..Toyota, Mazda, etc. in the global marketplace

    Nothing a country does to further its own interests can be properly charactised as a conspiracy, and whether it is a secret alliance between all those countries against America or not is quite academic. The question is: is it advantageous to the U?. Trump acted to try and put an end the to those countries getting good access to the American market, defended at the expense of American taxpayers, and yet trading with the country that they were supposedly threatened by (China) at a handsome profit, simply because he saw it was not working to the advantage of America. A decade or so from now it will be obvious to all that the US has declined relative to China under Biden-Harris even as a lot of people in the US have got very rich. A very dangerous situation will be created both domestically and internationally.

    • Replies: @antibeast
  221. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    Methinks you’re too much of a conspiracy theory buff. Here’s a video of ‘Why did the American Auto Industry Fail?”:

    Thank you for your comments. This is my last post on this topic.

    • Replies: @Sean
  222. Sean says:
    @antibeast

    I watched the video, it concentrates on GM and points out the dire effect of cutting costs on Opel. But that is shareholder value.

    https://apnews.com/article/b4f81d3a69cd4baeaa5ba8052e87c830
    Wages, pensions, plant investments still issues in GM strike
    By TOM KRISHER
    October 15, 2019
    The union and GM are still apart on the company’s commitment for new products at U.S. factories, with the union arguing that all vehicles sold in the U.S. should also be built in the U.S.

    I would say that I had been advancing an institutional analysis rather than a conspiracy theory. The American car industry, and every other industry, is made up of companies that are in the business of making money for their investors, not providing jobs and productive capacity in America. China is like that?

    • Replies: @antibeast
  223. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    In a 2019 article says “GM made more than $8 billion last year and has racked up more than $30 billion in profits in the past five years“. The US’s corporations are very free market and liberal when it comes to doing what makes the most money for their shareholders. American governments are loath to interfere with that. The rhetoric of individual and economic freedom enshrined in the American Constitution and politically powerful as seen in the uproar over Facebook data is going to limit the US freedom of strategic action to direct their counties business. There is no such limitation on the Chinese government, ask Jack Ma.

    In China, the rhetoric and innate tendency is strong on duty to the community. The essential point is that American business are not going to be stopped by their governments from investing in China and growing its productive capacity. The subservient acceptance of the Chinese to being a cog in a giant economic state machine gives them an advantage. China is urbanizing so fast that their emissions with peak before 2o25, while the Paris Accords that Biden has signed up to were predicated on their emissions peaking in 2030. The first thing Biden has done is give China a pass on emissions reduction targets. The burgeoning of already gigantic Chinese cities will though a well known scaling phenomena in and of itself create a massive boost to all kinds of economic activity. Now factor in 5G world. John Gray:

    Bypassing conscious awareness, these technologies track human sensations and emotions more minutely than human beings can do themselves. Eventually surveillance will be omnipresent and thereby invisible. As the former executive chairman of Alphabet and Google Eric Schmidt predicted in 2015, “The internet will disappear. There will be so many IP addresses… so many devices, sensors, things that you are wearing, things that you are interacting with, that you won’t even sense it. It will be part of your presence all the time.” Seamlessly woven into everyday life, technologies of monitoring and control will fashion a world different from any that existed before.

    Yeas ago in discussing ancient Chinese philosophy Gray said: “The freest human being is not one who acts on reasons he has chosen for himself, but one who never has to choose.” It will lead to exponential growth in China, which is already so big there will be an explosion beyond all imagining.

  224. antibeast says:
    @Sean

    I would say that I had been advancing an institutional analysis rather than a conspiracy theory. The American car industry, and every other industry, is made up of companies that are in the business of making money for their investors, not providing jobs and productive capacity in America.

    Your problem is not with those US auto companies themselves but with the US economic system itself which “is made up of companies that are in the business of making money for their investors, not providing jobs and productive capacity in America“.

    Why are auto imports from Germany and Japan allowed into the US market? Why are US automakers allowed to move their factories to Mexico, make US autos there and sell those US autos back into the US market? Why did US automakers abandon US workers for Mexican workers?

    Methinks you are providing a ‘political analysis’ of the US auto industry, albeit with a ‘conspiracy theory’ bias. Those questions are political not economic in nature because it concerns how the US government allowed US automakers as well as foreign countries such as Germany, Japan and Mexico to destroy the economic livelihood of US factory workers. That’s the problem that Trump was trying to solve by replacing NAFTA with USMCA. Had he won reelection, Trump would have imposed tariffs on auto imports from Germany, Japan and other foreign countries.

    China is like that?

    Short answer: No. Long answer: China is a Socialist country while the USA is a Capitalist country.

  225. @antibeast

    Agree with your comment – with one caveat… BYD is now moving toward direct competition with Tesla. The BYD Han is very very competitive with the Tesla Model 3…. Its sales are growing rapidly too. Check the reviews on it. BYD electric vehicles are no longer buses and Shenzen taxis – lol.

    • Thanks: antibeast
    • Replies: @Sean
  226. Sean says:
    @Showmethereal

    First of all it does not matter whether China is doing anything deliberately or not. My standpoint is a geopolitical international relative power one; by no means limited to a particular industry that Antibeast wanted to talk about.

    ‘Communist China’ — had nothing to do with the failure of US automakers to compete against German and Japanese automakers in China

    China is not just where Germany is selling a third of its cars, Germany is selling capital goods, such as the robots being put in state of the art factories of surpassing economies-of-scaling size. Does it matter that those facilities in China such as Tesla’s are foreign? Not to the Chinese who are after productive capacity in their country. Japan is also selling far more that just vehicles to China.

    HUAWEI CRACKDOWN
    Japanese chipmakers scramble to replace Huawei sales after US ban
    Sony, Toshiba and other suppliers face risk to $10bn in annual business

    Germany and Japan are mediators of technology flow to, are increasingly economically dependent on, China: the type of relationship that China likes. American advances flow to the Chinese, whose commercial focus enables them to be first with a commercial iteration even in things that they are in scientific terms far from world leaders in.

    The USSR was first with a satellite and a man in space, then seemed to establish military parity with the US. But the USSR begame floundering and came apart incredibly quickly when America’s much more powerful economy got focused on a military build up. Having became clear that the USSR was a second rate super power and destined to fall further and further behind, the system collapsed. What I take from this is a country, above all one that regards itself as a beacon to humanity great power, has to believe in a future of at least maintaining its position. When it begins to see the future as one of decline relative to peers there will be internal instability.

    What China has taken from the fate of the Russian Communist party is: don’t get into military competition with the US and alarm them into mobilising their latent strength, because that will end with national humiliation without a shot being fired. Professor Mearsheimer would say America is intent on stopping China dominating its region. However, I think Mearsheimer is missing the difference between China’s challenge and the previous great power ones to the US. Namely, China is actively avoiding military domination of its region, but very successfully making itself economic overlord to America’s allies in the region.

    I believe it will take a decade or so for it to become clear that the burgeoning economic hegemony of China will be immune to old fashioned military basing systems of the US. By 2035 there will be a profound demoralization among the whole political class in America, domestic discontent at Wall Street hypercapitalists causing inequality, and furious demands for corrective action by the voters. God only knows what what kind of foolhardy JFK style initiatives will result.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Guillaume Durocher Comments via RSS
PastClassics
Becker update V1.3.2
The JFK Assassination and the 9/11 Attacks?