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2020: Accelerating Towards the European Superstate
Will Hungary and Poland be bribed into submission?
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A recent summit of European leaders, hammering out a deal on the EU budget.

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The year 2020 has seen signification changes and further centralization of power in the European Union. There appear to be three major causes for this:

  1. British withdrawal from the EU which occurred on February 1, 2020.
  2. The coronavirus crisis, whose lockdowns have inflicted tremendous damage on the European economy, particularly in southern Europe, annihilating in mere months years worth of effort to put government finances on a sustainable footing.
  3. A more proactive European policy on the part of Germany.

Without Britain and Germany, the camp opposed to more EU spending was reduced to the “Frugal Four” that are Austria, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Sweden, a coalition of smaller nations who lack the clout to block the ambitions of the Franco-German directorate. British withdrawal has deprived the EU of its second-biggest net financial contributor (some €10 billion annually) and of one of its biggest and most dynamic economics, but ultimately the Union has gained in cohesion.

Since the Second World War, the pace of European integration has always been set by the Franco-German engine. This remains the case, even as France has become the decidedly weaker partner. French President Emmanuel Macron has consistently pressured for a strengthening of the EU and Chancellor Angela Merkel – whose policies fluctuate according to factors beyond my understanding, presumably a mixture of German domestic politics and “legacy-building” for a politician on the cusp of retirement – has agreed.

The EU’s response to the coronavirus crisis, while uneven, has been decidedly more proactive and ambitious than during the financial-economic crisis that started in 2007. The European Central Bank (ECB), a de facto sovereign federal entity, has under Christine Lagarde launched a lending stimulus program worth a whopping €1,850 billion (\$2,270 billion or 15.5% of eurozone GDP). This measure has allowed national governments, particularly in southern Europe, to continue borrowing from financial markets and escape (critics would say postpone) debilitating bankruptcy.

Meanwhile, Germany has abandoned its decades-strong “red lines” opposing borrowing by the Union on financial markets. Berlin has agreed to an EU stimulus plan worth €750 billion to support economies devastated by the coronavirus crisis, particularly Italy and Spain. Significantly, €390 billion of this money will be in the form of grants, basically transfers, rather than mere re-lending to national governments. All the Frugal Four achieved in return was a negligible decrease of the regular EU budget (still worth around 1% of GDP).

Admittedly, thanks to the ECB’s action, national governments could already borrow at their leisure on financial markets. What’s more, the €750-billion plan will be spent over three years, amounting to annual stimulus of a mere 1.5% of GDP. This suggests the vast difference in agency between a de facto federal sovereign like the ECB (which can take action when a simple majority of its independent Governing Council agrees) as against the summits of national governments, each with their veto and sensitive electorate. Still, the new EU stimulus plan amounts to an unprecedented and instantaneous 150% increase in the EU budget for three years, no mean feat.

The new EU borrowing-stimulus plan is particularly significant for the following reasons:

  1. The precedent having been set, European heads of state and government will likely be increasingly tempted in the future to find agreeable compromises through yet more apparently painless EU borrowing.
  2. The EU borrowing will have to be repaid, creating pressure to establish new European taxes (referred officially in Eurocratese as “own resources,” a cold term intentionally designed to confuse European citizens, such is the price of consensus). The European Commission notably proposes a carbon tariff on imports, a tax on tech giants, and a financial transactions tax.
  3. Like the United States of America, albeit on a much smaller scale, Europe’s Union conditions states’ access to its funds, thus the EU now will have increased means to bribe national governments to accept its norms.

The latter was the sticking point which led Hungary and Poland to threaten to veto both the regular EU budget for 2021-2027 and the creation of the new stimulus fund. Indeed, the European Parliament has demanded a “rule of law” mechanism to punish Hungary and Poland for their national-populist governments. The mood is suggested by Brussels’ recent decision to deprive several Polish cities of funds because of their creation of “anti-LGBT-ideology zones” (essentially declarations in favor of traditional marriage and pledges to not fund NGOs promoting homosexuality or transgenderism).

The Hungarian and Polish governments strike a balance between appealing to their national electorates’ conservative instincts, whether out of political opportunism or sincere belief, and attracting the ire of Brussels. Up to now, depriving a whole nation of EU funds could only occur with the unanimous support of all 26 other national governments. Naturally, Budapest and Warsaw could count on each other to veto any such proposal (occasionally joined by other central-eastern European allies, most recently Ljubljana).

Unlike their predecessors Charles de Gaulle in the 1960s and Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s – whose countries were net contributors to the European budget – Hungary’s Viktor Orbán and Poland’s Mateusz Morawiecki were in no position to gridlock the Union as EU net financial transfers to their countries amount to between 2.5 and 4.5% of GDP (mostly going to farmers and local governments). Now, a supermajority of national governments representing 65% of the population and 55% of states may move to deprive a country of EU funding.

Orbán and Morawiecki did secure a significant concession however. Legally, cutting funding may only occur for instances of misuse of EU funds and not for general enforcement of “EU values.” In principle, the EU Parliament will not be able to economically blackmail Hungary and Poland simply because their governments do not promote homosexuality or accept migrants to the desired extent.

What’s more, the deprivation can only occur with a concurrent ruling of the European Court of Justice (ECJ). Admittedly, the ECJ, like other Western courts, has been known for plenty of legal creativity over the years. Nonetheless, given that the ECJ is made up of 27 equal independent judges, one from each member state including 11 central-eastern Europeans, this makes it less likely national-populist governments will be punished for ideological reasons as against legitimate accounting ones. (There appears to be significant corruption in Hungary, though this is difficult to gauge because the issue is systematically exaggerated by Orbán’s liberal opponents for political reasons.)

All these developments give some indication of the character of the emerging European Superstate, which creeps along imperceptibly year after year, though ultimately forms something substantial: as of today, a sovereign and influential market regulator and an effective trade bloc (as the British have learned), able to bring into its orbit much of its near abroad (notably in central-eastern Europe).

The French expression la construction européenne is perhaps the most appropriate: we witness especially the steady accumulation of norms and structures, the acquis, and the occasional creation of de facto federal actors (the ECB, the Commission’s Competition authorities, regulatory agencies for financial markets, medicines, or foods . . .).

As times goes on, the north-west European core of the EU looks likely to increasingly have the means to impose its norms on the southern and eastern periphery. Patriots in central-eastern Europe had better hope Western Europe takes an identitarian turn or they may have to choose between their wallets and their values.

• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Brexit, EU, Germany, Hungary, Poland 
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  1. Legally, cutting funding may only occur for instances of misuse of EU funds and not for general enforcement of “EU values.”

    Long walk for a drink of syllabus here. Orban is simply telling the EU spit it out or shut up.

    Texas has the oldest polish community in the nation called Panna Maria. I filed a divorce action there on behalf of one of them about thirty years ago. It was a scandal, people stopping me and asking what had happened and why. Nervous tension amounting to the scene of bad car wreck. Drag queen hour simply does not play well with those good and decent folks.

  2. German_reader says:

    the camp opposed to more EU spending was reduced to the “Frugal Four” that are Austria, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Sweden, a coalition of smaller nations who lack the clout to block the ambitions of the Franco-German directorate.

    Can only be a matter of time until movements to leave the EU gather steam in Scandinavia and the Netherlands. The demented attitude shown by many Southern Europeans on the net (“muh Dutch tax haven”, Spaniards posting pictures of the Duke of Alba with “He should come back” etc.) can’t help either. Germans take such shit because they’re a psychologically broken people crushed by their Nazi guilt, but why should any Dutchman let himself be accused by Italians, of all people, of “fascism”, just because they don’t want to pay for the South? These resentments are bound to increase. I get the impression that Durocher thinks they should just be ignored or suppressed for the sake of pan-Europeanism, but it won’t work like that.

    Patriots in central-eastern Europe had better hope Western Europe takes an identitarian turn

    I think it’s much more likely that in 10-15 years Poland and Hungary will have become fully pozzed. Polish nationalism doesn’t seem to consist of much more than WW2 grievance-mongering against Germany and Russia anyway, plus Catholic “muh Holy Poland” nonsense, which leads Polish right-wingers to piss away their political capital on unpopular projects like trying to force women to carry unviable fetuses to term. Polish right-wingers are also inordinately pro-American. Given the stance of the Catholic church on mass immigration to Europe (mostly enthusiastically in favour of it) and the general political and demographic drift of the US, the implications are obvious.
    Hungary’s right-wingers seem more sensible (though the corruption issue seems to be real), but in the end Hungary is a fairly small country which can’t do much on its own.

  3. Poland and Hungary, via several twists and turns, will slowly thaw out from the Soviet freezer and their values will eventually become identical to north-western Europe and the United States. It is still in southern Europe; notably, certain parts of Italy, rural Spain and most of Greece where remnants of patriotism, ethnocentrism, familiasm, corporatism and simply clannishness will survive because these characteristics have deeper roots and also because north-western Europe tends to ignore them from exasperation at their supposed failures. There are certain advantages to having a disorganised and inefficient state (of course periodic economic crisis is the downside). People tend to ignore or trash the state, so the instrument which can be used by north-western Europe to bludgeon the population into submission, is not really effective.

  4. Hal says the ‘glitches’ in the election were due to ‘human error’.

    2020: The Political Oddity.

  5. Anon[141] • Disclaimer says:

    Er, we might not have left the EU had our EU net contribution been as low as €3.5bn. Try £11bn or €12bn. See the Uk Office of National Statistics on this:

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  6. In the US, the federal government has gained powers over the States well beyond the original constitutional design through vehicles which have their equivalent in the EU: (i) the commerce clause – competition law in the EU, (ii) subsidies with strings attached and compliance requirements, (iii) civil rights with an ever expanding domain: race, gender, handicap, sexual orientation… (iv) environnemental protection, and (v) the central bank. Of course, the Union would have been undone without four years of combat to prevent Southern secession. The EU doesn’t have an army and seems to hold together primarily because of inertia and the ECB.
    The public opinions of most (all?) European countries are fairly skeptical about the EU and have been so for a while. European construction was from the beginning an elite project. The problem is that European elites don’t really seem to believe in Europe that much anymore: they are globalized and Americanized.
    The US is a great power in an advanced state of institutional decay. The EU is also presenting clear signs of bureaucratic decay before having achieved any great power status.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  7. Closer to home, Australia’s beastly rulers are going flat out for the Australian Superstate. An already badly overpopulated arid island continent about the area of the USA but a tiny fraction of its population. Melbourne a beautiful city half a century ago with beautiful public transport, electric trams, electric suburban trains. But massive population increase wanted and going ahead, combined with Freedmaniacal privatization of all government assets, has made Melbourne, vastly greater area than then, a horrible crapopolis. But it is essential, in the minds of our rulers, that the Australian population exceed China’s as soon as possible. Rule Australia, Australia rules the world, Aussies ever, ever, ever will be sheep driving bumper-to-bumper along 10-lane roads.

    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  8. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    I mean Milton the Freedmaniac, who achieved destruction of Chile. It is fantastic that Bolivia has thrown off his ilk

  9. Athena says:

    French President Emmanuel Macron has consistently pressured for a strengthening of the EU and Chancellor Angela Merkel – whose policies fluctuate according to factors beyond my understanding, presumably a mixture of German domestic politics and “legacy-building” for a politician on the cusp of retirement – has agreed.

    I think Germany and France (mainly the Rothschilds) want to strengthen the EU for implemention of the MERCOSUR-EU FTAs recently concluded, and also for the FTAs signed with the countries of Western Africa where US-NATO is installed. All of these FTAs being intended mainly to force these countries to accept the IMF and therefore accept usury loans from the US/UK/EU bankers that will destroy them completely.

    Also consider the new alliance between the Rothschilds and the Vatican described by Mr William F. Engdahl (link below). Is this alliance created to use the ”latin” connection for an ”economic invasion” of Latin America and the African colonies by the IMF/BIS/Rotschild bankers and their Anglo-US NATO friends already intalled both in Latin America and Western Africa?

    The Dangerous Alliance of Rothschild and the Vatican of Francis


    ”In announcing the deal with the Vatican, Lynn Forester de Rothschild declared, “This Council will follow the warning from Pope Francis to listen to ‘the cry of the earth and the cry of the poor’ and answer society’s demands for a more equitable and sustainable model of growth.””

    Their reference to Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum is no accident. The group is yet another front group in what is becoming a globalist bum’s rush to try to convince a skeptical world that the same people who created the post-1945 model of IMF-led globalization and giga-corporate entities more powerful than governments, destroying traditional agriculture in favor of toxic agribusiness, dismantling living standards in industrialized countries to flee to cheap labor countries like Mexico or China, will now lead the effort to correct all their abuses? We are being naïve if we swallow this.”

  10. TG says:

    The EU is increasingly becoming a centralized pharaonic state. It’s like the late unlamented Society Union, only without even the pretense of caring about the average worker.

    Oh, and “accepting migrants?” That’s using the language of the enemy. The issue is forced population growth, of literally treating people like cattle, and if the cattle refuse to breed according to the farmer’s wishes, well, just replace them with cattle who will.

  11. Beckow says:

    …why should any Dutchman let himself be accused by Italians, of all people, of “fascism”, just because they don’t want to pay for the South?

    It can be confusing. But ‘fascism‘ is simply another word for ‘capitalism‘. Once you understand that, it will all make sense.

  12. @Anon

    You are correct, I used an incorrect source and have adjusted the figure to a 2018 estimate.

  13. @HyperDupont

    I find the theory and practice of U.S. federalism quite interesting. “Cooperative federalism,” “coercive federalism,” though perhaps should be called “bribed federalism,” “unfunded mandates”.. all have their analogues in European integration, though typically these are not glorified in America as the Way of the Future, but rather often alienating and inefficient bureaucratic realities.

    • Replies: @HyperDupont
  14. Anonymous[430] • Disclaimer says:

    All I have to say is this:

    The EU has economically stagnated for the past 30 years – at the very least.
    Meanwhile, the rest of the world is surging ahead, with the largest GDP increment in economic history being added, this has, for whatever reason, passed the EU by.
    At present, EU GDP per capita is around twice the global average – this in itself is scandalously low considered the billions of paupers living in the third world.

    In the near future, a generation or so’s time, EU GDP per capita will be no higher than the global average.

    This is the ultimate failure.

  15. It would not be the first time when a European superstate project was ruined by Italian incompetence. Mussolini after all, arguably played the biggest role in Hitler’s defeat.

    • Replies: @Catiline
  16. sher singh [AKA "Jatt Aryaa"] says:
    Means this continent wide soon like 5 years.

    The central EU body as a vehicle to enable the Kirpan continent wide would be a great endeavor, and go a long way to addressing the problems plaguing humanity.


  17. Anonymous[300] • Disclaimer says:

    When the historians of the future eventually write the obituary of the EU, with the proviso that they are objective and honest men, it will be seen that the adoption of the euro currency, the first step toward putative monetary union, will be seen as the turning point of the EU, the moment at which fatal decline set in.

    Imposed above the heads of European electorates, by overbearing and dictatorial political elites, who lied and concealed the truth to their citizens – and, of course, those stupid cunts at The Economist, Europeans must wake up and realise that monetary union is the cause of their economic decline relative to the rest of the world.

    Ironically, only in the UK was there any scepticism and political challenge of monetary union.

  18. “European taxation” reminds me of an old joke: Germans laugh at the high tax rates in Italy and France, and the Italians and French laugh at the high taxes Germans actually pay.

    • LOL: showmethereal
  19. In Western Europe the Flemish (Dutch-speaking) 60% of Belgium, possibly to become independent around 2024, is quite the most populist Right region of Western Europe, quite Hungary-Poland tier

    It is probably the huge economic crisis coming that will be decisive in shaping European politics re the EU … tho the Germans seem ready now to debase the euro currency to save it, it isn’t clear it will be enough when the crunch really hits … and migrant policies then will take their major turn

    An interesting sign of rebellion, is that most Europeans won’t get covid-vaccinated … despite hard-core institutional pumping of pro-vaccine propaganda, and media masking of the stories of the thousands suffering sometimes life-endangering side effects, support for getting vaccinated in Europe is dropping rapidly since October

    In Bulgaria only 15% plan to take it
    In Poland less than 40% plan to take it
    In France only 41% plan to take it
    In a very strongly government-trusting place such as Sweden, still only 67% plan to take it

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  20. @Guillaume Durocher

    The EU pretended to be the Way of the Future in 2000 with the Lisbon agenda: « make Europe, by 2010, the most competitive and the most dynamic knowledge-based economy in the world ». This embarrassing episode for the EU has been memory-holed. I suspect the European Green Deal will last a bit longer but end the same way.

  21. Anonymous[300] • Disclaimer says:

    Poles must realise that the tens of millions of Arabs and blacks in France, for example, are according to the EU, full blown, full bore ‘Europeans’ with EU citizenship – which the EU will defend to the hilt.

    Inevitably, Polish living standards will equal and then surpass those in western Europe. Inevitably, also, the blacks and Arabs of France etc will flee, like fleas off a cold carcass, France for Poland …..

  22. @German_reader

    “Polish nationalism doesn’t seem to consist of much more than WW2 grievance-mongering against Germany and Russia anyway, plus Catholic “muh Holy Poland” nonsense, which leads Polish right-wingers to piss away their political capital on unpopular projects like trying to force women to carry unviable fetuses to term. Polish right-wingers are also inordinately pro-American. Given the stance of the Catholic church on mass immigration to Europe (mostly enthusiastically in favour of it) and the general political and demographic drift of the US, the implications are obvious.”

    You nailed it, German reader. I grew up in Poland in the 50-60:s and still have relatives there. Most Poles are too brainwashed to discern any difference between a sensible nationalism, i.e. loving one’s own people, and special nationalism/chauvinism that is based on a religious pretence. I call the phenomenon “Polish chosenness”, meaning chosenites and victims at the same time. Reminds of the in the Western world dominating chosenness, an area in which Poles are useful idiots.

    • Replies: @utu
  23. Europe ends at the Oder.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  24. utu says:
    @Lucy Lipinska

    Lucy Lipinska, are you Jewish? Polish Jews who emigrated from Poland in 1950s and then after 1968 made significant contribution to Sweden’s immigration policy. Many of those Jews were communists, former communist party apparatchik, high ranking security apparatus officers, basically crème de la crème of Jewish communist scoundrels who were purged in the de-Stalinization process after Stalin’s death and during the factional intra-party shuffle in 1968. Though when asked why they left Poland most of them would blame Polish anti-Semitism and Catholicism. On of the better known is Stefan Michnik:

    He was involved in the politically-motivated arrest, trial, imprisonment and/or execution of a number Polish anti-communist fighters and activists. Many of those persecuted by Michnik also fought against Nazi Germany during World War II, as members of the Polish resistance.

    After de-stalinization, Michnik went into exile in 1968, and has lived in Storvreta, Sweden.

    After the collapse of communism in Poland (1989), Michnik was formally implicated by the Polish justice system in zbrodnie komunistyczne (“communist crimes”) relating to his tenure as a military judge.

    On 8 November 2018, the Military Court in Warsaw issued for the second time a European Arrest Warrant in connection with 30 offenses that Michnik committed in the years 1952–53 against representatives of the democratic opposition and former members of the Underground State, including unlawful death sentences. Michnik has claimed that he wasn’t aware of the death sentences, who, according to him, was a decision made higher up in the judicial hierarchy. A Swedish court in Gothenburg refused Poland’s appeal for the extradition of Stefan Michnik.

    But the one who had the greatest impact on Sweden’s immigration policy and subsequent multiculturalism course was David Schwarz who left Poland in 1950s. His pro immigration article in 1964 in Dagens Nyhe initiated the national debate on immigration. He argued that immigrant groups should face no pressure to assimilate; they should unconditionally be permitted to retain their cultural particularity. He recommended the appointment of a parliamentary inquiry with a view to formulating a culturally pluralist immigration and minority policy.

    There were seventeen distinct debates on immigration and minority policy in prominent Swedish newspapers and magazines between 1964 and 1968, consisting altogether of 118 articles. Schwarz personally wrote or co-wrote 37 of these, or 31% of the total. He also initiated no less than twelve of the debates; no one else initiated more than one. (

    Schwarz was very clear about placing responsibility for good inter-communal relations exclusively with the Swedish majority, writing, e.g., “It is the host population’s responsibility to insure that insidious slander of foreigners (‘They’re taking our houses’, ‘they’re taking our jobs’ etc.) ceases.” — essentially proposing that empirical data on the effects of immigration on the labor market, ecological pressures and housing were off limits. (

    What Poland can learn from Sweden and its immigration and multicultural experience.? First, do not let Polish Jews control the discourse. Second, cultivate traditional Catholic religion as it was Swedes rootlessness after the collapse of its Lutheran church that opened them to pro-immigration argument. Third, do not subscribe to Darwinist ideology because it was the argument on the need to enrich allegedly impoverished Sweden’s gene pool that was very effective in the society that was one of the strongest advocated and practitioners of eugenics. The eugenic argument was turned around and used against the Swedes. They were all defective and needed the injection of fresh blood.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  25. @utu

    In the Seventies and following years, Sweedish crime-writer and playwright Henning Mankell (“the Wallander series”) played publicly a big part pro-immigration in the footpaths of the Socialist International initiative to support the poor global South (= especially Africa).

    Henning Mankell at one time began living in Africa and working on Swedish-African cooperation for theater-plays etc. amongst a lot of other things.

    The Socialist International (= SI) meeting of 1989 took place in Stockholm and saw very strong arguments in support of the African south.

    The Swedish Prime Minister Ingvar Carlsson addressed the Socialist International’s congress in Stockholm in 1989 and explicitly mentioned that it was an important goal of the SI to bridge the gap between the rich North and the poor South – with special regard to Africa.

    The main questions addressed at this congress sound rather familiar: 
    A series of speakers welcomed the declaration’s heightened emphasis on environmental protection as a fundamental part of the socialist project; its commitment to gender equality; its will to harness the potential of new technology to democratic ends and social progress; its pledge to bridge the gap between North and South; and its reference to the intrinsic link that should exist between socialism, democracy and human rights.

  26. Anonymous[199] • Disclaimer says:
    @Supply and Demand

    What a fucking stupid retard!!!!

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  27. Rahan says:

    With the UK gone, the EU lost not only a budget generator, but also a GloboHomo generator. The moment London left, EE’s influence, culturally became stronger.

    If the EU, in the near future, starts taking in more former Yugoslav and Soviet republics, or even Albania, then the values balance will shift even more. If right now the EU admits for example Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, Moldova, and the Ukraine, this will stretch the budget, but the value balance will shift quite strongly away from mandatory kid trannies.

    A near future expansion of the EU makes no sense economically, but could be a major long-term foundation for a functional United States of Europe.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  28. Catiline says:

    Yo Willy:

    When the Italian government presented its draft budget for 2019, including a 2.4 per cent deficit, the Commission rejected it and threatened to enact the Excessive Deficit Procedure under the SGP. The proposed deficit did not even cross the SGP’s 3 per cent limit. But using dubious mathematics to measure the structural deficit –what the deficit would be if the economy was at full employment –the Commission argued that the Italian economy, in recession, would be at risk of overheating if a fiscal deficit of 2.4 per cent was reached.

    When French President Emmanuel Macron announced €10 billion in additional spending in December 2018 to defuse the gilets jaunesprotests, taking France’s projected deficit for 2019 up to 3.4 per cent, EU economic commissioner Pierre Moscovici gave the thumbs-up.

    “The comparison with Italy is tempting but wrong,” he said30. “The situations are totally different. The European Commission has been monitoring the Italian debt for several years; we have never done that for France.” This is despite the fact that it was only in 2017 that France emerged from a long period with a deficit breaching the SGP rules. A French treasury official agreed with Moscovici: “The situations are not comparable. Contrary to Italy, we do not question European rules. We agree that having public finances in order and reducing public debt are the right thing to do.”

    A study by Transparency International, which includes a case study on the Italian standoff, concludes that “By using their political weight to exert pressure on the Commission and to form coalitions in the Ecofin Council and the Eurogroup, [large] Member States regularly avoid Excessive Deficit Procedures being launched against them.”

    Discipline and Punish: End of the road for the EU’s Stability and Growth Pact?–

  29. Catiline says:

    The Euro traded at 1,23 to the US dollar today. Thank you, and have a nice day.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  30. Catiline says:

    Now for some facts:

    If we remove all the spin, the amount of real new funds from the EU for this recovery plan is €310bn. It is not an insignificant sum, and it has been welcomed by countries such as Italy and Spain. But it is nowhere near the €2.4 trillion touted by von der Leyen in her speech.

    Even the proposed €750bn in borrowing represents is in reality less than what was put forward in the German-French plan for €500bn in grants.

    Crunching the numbers, Eurointelligence estimates that, “The recovery element of the package amounts to an annual 0.56% of the EU’s 2019 GDP, for four years”.

  31. Catiline says:

    Now for some more facts:

    Sì perché stando ai documenti ufficiali disponibili, all’Italia del Recovery Fund spetterebbero – nella migliore delle ipotesi – 127,6 miliardi di euro in prestiti e 63,8 miliardi in sussidi.Sussidi che sommando anche gli altri programmi UE (REACT-EU, Horizon Europe, RescEU, ecc.) arriverebbero massimo a 81 miliardi.Il contributo dell’Italia al Recovery Fund, stando al documento dei servizi della Commissione Europea SWD (2020) 98 FINAL¹ sarebbe di 96,3 miliardi.Vuol dire, escludendo i prestiti che per definizione vanno restituiti, un saldo negativo per quanto riguarda i sussidi di 15,3 miliardi.A cui vanno aggiunti i 20,3 miliardi di contributo al bilancio UE che l’Italia dovrà versare nel settennio 2021-2027. Cioè un saldo negativo complessivo per l’Italia di 35,6 miliardi per i prossimi 7 anni.Altro che pioggia di miliardi a fondo perduto.L’Italia tra il 2000 e il 2020 ha dato circa 163 miliardi di euro a fondo perduto alla UE (circa 103 miliardi di contributi netti alla UE più 58,2 miliardi tra contributo al MES, al fondo EFSF e prestiti bilaterali).Si tratta di circa 200 miliardi di euro nel periodo che va dal 2000 al 2027.Quella è l’unica pioggia di miliardi, gli unici sussidi a fondo perduto.Quelli che l’Italia ha versato e verserà all’Unione Europea.

    What does this all mean? Well, it means that Italy will get at most 81 billion euros from the RF and similar programs, while it’s contributions to THAT SAME FUND are 96.3 billion euros. In addition to the 20.3 billion Italy is required to advance to the EU budget (net figure) between 2021-2027. When all monies are taken into consideration Italy has given a total of 163 billion between 2000 and 2020 which will increase to nearly 200 billion by 2027.

  32. Catiline says:
    @Caspar von Everec

    Typical stupid, ignorant Northwest European UNZ ranter.

  33. Catiline says:

    Can only be a matter of time until movements to leave the EU gather steam in Scandinavia and the Netherlands.

    Good riddance.

    …just because they don’t want to pay for the South?


    Germans take such shit because they’re a psychologically broken people crushed by their Nazi guilt…

    They’re not “taking shit” they’re giving it. And they’re guilt is selective and phony.

    …but why should any Dutchman let himself be accused by Italians, of all people, of “fascism”…

    Because the Dutch are scumbags and not all Italians are fascists. That’s why.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  34. German_reader says:

    not all Italians are fascists

    It would be better if Italians were fascists (who actually got things done) instead of voting for retarded left-wing populists who’ll just piss away money on useless nonsense, not spend it on actually useful infrastructure and the like. Spain of course is even worse with its rotten Marxist parties.
    Anyway, I have no desire to get into another shouting match with you. I don’t even care that much, the whole EU project will end in disaster and mutual recriminations anyway (your habitual resort to insults is good evidence btw for what I wrote in my original comment). Durocher’s pan-European dreams have no basis in reality.

  35. @Rahan

    Further enlargement would indeed tilt the European center-of-gravity to the cultural right, but the Union would lose yet more in cohesion and coherence. So another catch-22.

  36. @German_reader

    Out of curiosity, what would say if these were the borders of the European Union?

    Seems to me this would be quite viable. Though whether it is desirable will also depend on one’s values and priorities.

  37. Anonymous[566] • Disclaimer says:

    ….. and your point is?

  38. Anonymous[566] • Disclaimer says:

    And also voting for shitty lefties who eagerly importing the third world into Italy.

    Why, in God’s name, are Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Indians, Nigerians etc etc are even *allowed* into Italy?

    • Replies: @Catiline
  39. German_reader says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    Carolingian Europe would certainly have been more viable than adding ever more members of dubious worth (imo Romania and Bulgaria with all their organized crime and corruption should never have been admitted…also too many of their gypsies have taken the chance to move to Western Europe. And if one is honest Spain, Portugal and Greece are pretty useless too). But since the EU is nowadays to be supposed to be all about spreading liberal values, not about anything actually rooted in history or culture (let alone biology), one can’t of course argue for such exclusion.
    And unfortunately Carolingian Europe isn’t exactly what it once was either and increasingly populated by people of non-European origin.

    Though whether it is desirable will also depend on one’s values and priorities.

    I’m of two minds on this. I actually think some sort of pan-European cooperation is crucially important for the survival of European nations in the world of the 21st century. Not sure though what form this should take. And I’m sceptical whether any meaningful European identity that doesn’t degenerate into just liberal cosmopolitanism is possible. I always suspect that the European commitments of even groups like the identitarians with their ostentatious pro-Europeanism are only very superficial (all the more so since many of them seem to be plugged so deeply into American alt-right discourse, instead of really learning about their neighbours and forming organic connections with them). More mainstream right-wingers are of course even worse, readily resorting to old-fashioned national enmities which one can ill afford today.

  40. Anonymous[805] • Disclaimer says:

    Surely, the solution lies in that old adage, said at times of extreme danger, “every man for himself”.

    Think of it in this way:

    If the various nations of Europe were all truly independent and sovereign, each would be free and agile enough to formulate solutions to the pressing problems facing them. Good governance would be moulded in the crucible of an electorate – fighting for its own self interest – electing leaders who are able and successful. This is the only way the nation can get ahead.
    The converse is that those nations which are incapable of electing able men to power will, in the way of such things, wither and die, until the people wake up and do what is necessary.

    The advantage of such a Darwinian system is that contagion is contained in the ‘bad’ states, and cannot contaminate the body politic of the ‘good’ states, thus progress, the ultimate goal, is possible. A system of pooling contagion just destroys everyone.

    Exactly the same argument holds for refusing and denying third world immigration into white nations.

  41. Catiline says:

    I don’t even care that much, the whole EU project will end in disaster and mutual recriminations anyway (your habitual resort to insults is good evidence btw for what I wrote in my original comment). Durocher’s pan-European dreams have no basis in reality.

    The EU is going to bury the US.

    Durocher is a French sh_t who pretends (rather poorly) to be pan-European while actually being a French chauvinist and 3rd rate nordicist.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @utu
    , @Anonymous
  42. Catiline says:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  43. German_reader says:

    The EU is going to bury the US.

    I doubt it, EU is mostly stagnant and falling behind in key technologies. I actually think even Germany’s prospects are pretty dim, the country is just coasting along on industries established in the 19th century, but establishment of new sectors hasn’t been all that successful. Car industry will be ruined in the next few years by retarded Green policies, and after that it’s lights out and shared misery all around.

    Durocher is a French sh_t who pretends (rather poorly) to be pan-European while actually being a French chauvinist and 3rd rate nordicist.

    That’s a bit harsh, though I will admit the commitment of many identitarians to genuine pan-Europeanism is open to question.

    • Replies: @Matra
  44. Matra says:

    EU is mostly stagnant and falling behind in key technologies

    Leaving aside things like technology and economic matters everything about the the EU – its symbols, statements about values, even the name of the currency – is all so bland and uninspiring. It’s hard to see it galvanising future generations.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  45. utu says:

    Forget about the Nordics and France. Why is Italy not trying to resurrect the seminal project of Quadragonale, Pentagonale, Hexagonale that Germany sabotaged by recognizing the independence of Slovenia that brought the war in Yugoslavia? This was the greatest German chutzpah ever who at that point still had communists running local government in former DDR and soviet troops there and yet they relaunched their old plan for Mitteleuropa.

    The Hexagonale can be put back on the table.

    Italy+Croatia+Serbia+Bosnia+Slovenia+Hungary+Czechia+Slovakia+Poland+Romania+Greece and then Baltic States would get the blessing of the US initially that would help to overcome the opposition of Germany and France.

    Central European Initiative

    At the first Summit in Venice in 1990, Czechoslovakia was admitted and the Initiative was renamed Pentagonale. In 1991, with the admission of Poland it became the Hexagonale.

    Then you could envision expansion East doing the reconquest of Constantinople to end the Great Schism. And then in the following century launching the Last Crusade to capture Palestine and Jerusalem creating the Constantinople-Jerusalem-Rome Great Triangle of Christianity. Bringing back Latin and Greek as official languages. should be considered.

    You have to think big like Il Duce. And stop whining about Dutch, French and Germans. They will be begging to become members of the The Great Triangle of Christianity.

    • Replies: @Catiline
  46. Anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:

    In fact, by the latter part of this present century, both western Europe – the core of the EU – and the USA will be majority black/brown in terms of population, character and political leadership, so, very literally both will be ‘buried’ by then, in terms of the native white populations being submerged, never mind the actual economic and cultural collapse.

    Anyhow, I’m past caring. I’ve been ranting off about this on boards such as this for far too long now, there’s a limit to as much as one man can do. All I can say is keep taking the money – and curse The Economist.
    By mid century, I surely will be dead. I won’t have to live through the Hell of black/brown dominance.
    And Hell it surely will be.

  47. Anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:

    The only thing the EU really cares about is ‘liberal values.

    In reality this means importing as many black/browns as possible, whilst keeping down indigenous white Europeans as far as possible.

    That’s why I hate the EU.

  48. @German_reader

    You are very demanding! I can only speak of the French identitarians. The Identitaires are not particularly Americanized and could teach the U.S. movement a thing or two. The people around Institut Iliade are also working in a French and European tradition.

    Inevitably, these movements are adapting to a global frame of reference. There’s no reason for French (or other) patriots to ignore successful Anglo movements or memes. And we need to be authentic: you can wear a peasant outfit or swear by cross and altar, but does this correspond to any lived reality? And we two, after all, are also writing in English.. Nationalism is also becoming globalized to some extent.

    I share your reticences on European unity. On the one hand, the EU is an often poorly-designed and soulless entity. This is naturally alienating and thus anti-EU sentiment is quite understandable and often even a healthy sign. On the other, most criticisms of the EU are not that important in the grand scheme of things (e.g. arguing over transfers that add up maybe 0.3% of GDP). The main demographic downside is shared citizenship with Gypsies.

    The sociological dynamics of our electoral regimes are such that dissident/populist parties naturally tend to a demagogic small-state civic nationalism. However, this “nationalism” is utterly sterile. Therefore, it is important that we at least intellectually make the case for a grander movement based on shared ancestry and civilization, whatever form such unity might ultimately take.

  49. Anonymous[370] • Disclaimer says:

    Thoroughly misleading:

    That graphic refers to ‘resettlement’ – a whole different kettle of fish to the hundreds of thousands of pieces of black/brown trash which wash up on Italian shores, and are never kicked out.

    • Replies: @Catiline
  50. @Anonymous

    true – but GDP per capita not gaining ground doesn’t mean a necessary loss in quality of life though. It depends on how the society manages all the changes going forward.
    Some countries in Europe have already started losing population… Others in the EU are close to that stage. I haven’t heard of any big push towards automation. So i’m not sure if that means they are going to rely on immigration…?

  51. Vaterland says:
    @Guillaume Durocher

    Ultimately it doesn’t matter what the borders look like as long as we are dominated and colonized by the USA. When Jews in America can dictate what Europeans are allowed to say, what do borders matter to them? The German government arrests its own citizens for ‘holocaust denial’, the law of the victors of WW 2. Its mortal enemies dictate its history books and its mainstream culture; enslavement is the norm, true freedom an impossibility. We live in a state in which every degradation and insult against its own people is not only permitted by the state, but a sign of good conduct of its citizens. But insult a ‘protected group’ and you become unpersoned. And every alien, imported ideology which is full of hatred for Europe and its people becomes political mainstream. BLM being the last cultural revolution export from the Great Satan.

    Do we have a domestic cultural industry rooted in our own history and genuine European values to rival and out-compete Hollywood and Netflix? No.

    Do we have European companies which control the flow of internet information with laws that guarantee our freedom of speech? No.

    Do we have an economic enthusiasm and capabilities only somewhere near China? No.

    Common European foreign policy independent from the USA and Israel? No.

    And there is something new identitarians do not seem to understand: there are no nations anymore! There is no America. There is no unified Europe. There is no rising China (which America’s real elite built up in the first place). There is no Russia. There is a global system of systems, the global capital system and its cosmopolitan elite; a global class of people. Larry Fink and Klaus Schwab are the same category. These are a people that know no homeland, let alone a fatherland. That jet today to Paris and tomorrow to New York, then to Shanghai and another day to London. Those are a people that are at home everywhere and nowhere. And the people will follow them as human resources. While a Merkel owes more allegiance to the Open Society Foundation, or only the headlines of the New York Times than to any notion of organic German history that wasn’t already synthesized into absolute evil by its worst enemies. The mentor of Klaus Schwab was Henry Kissinger, that of Joschka Fischer was Madeleine Albright.

    We have a trans-Atlantic and in reality already global elite of Davos and Bilderberg; Polish, Hungarian and Russian nationalism are pure illusions. Poland and Hungary are tolerated, for now, because they are irrelevant! And very, very kosher. Even in China I cannot see a true anti-thesis and real competitor for an entirely different world order. Power games by Sheldon Adelson and Huawei, or the Trump admin and Macron not once have challenged the primary paradigms and foundational principles of this world order. Neither has Brexit. All of these governments, ultimately, are nothing but the managerial class of the real and permanent elite. There is a vision for the world… and you’re not in it!

    How many divisions do the identitarians have? In which major European country is any group ready and truly capable to take on the global institutions of power and come out victories? Golden Dawn? Ricoed and jailed. Sebastian Kurz? Honored guest at AIPAC and ally to Moshe Kantor. Macron? Rothschild banker. Nordic Resistance Movement? Can’t even keep their bitchute channel. The New Right, Alt-Right? It’s all just podcasting and blogging by people who have no institutional power and no political influence, but get occasionally used by foreign ics, all talk and some media events. Sellner didn’t gain the AfD a single %. Instead the AfD, Zionist in the first place, and by copying the US retard right, lost on all fronts. From years of Alt-Right and Identitarian activity absolutely nothing has materialized. Not one policy was changed. Not one non-European was kept out. And not one war was stopped. The culture? Hegemonic leftist-liberal globalism. Not one truly meaningful institution was established, of just the size of Fox News while our mortal enemies control all of the state media.

    I know of a time when Europe was truly sovereign and we could speak of European world politics. When there was a group ready to take on the world, if it had to be and with the army, the system and the faith to carry it. Maybe the most advanced state in the entire world with some of the best engineers and soldiers it had ever seen. 92% of Americans were against participating in WW 2. And yet the masters of media and money and of real political influence managed to get millions of Americans and its entire military machine to fight at the side of Stalin to the death and kill and kill and kill until it was done. The ruins of Berlin in 1945 do tell a story, the story of the people who are truly in power and who are in power today and have only gotten stronger.

    Again right this moment German citizens are in jail, jailed by their in name only own government, by decree of a foreign, hostile power, for nothing but speech. In the case of Horst Mahler a more severe sentence than rapists and most murderers receive. And as long as only that is the case, moving fantasy borders around, is like moving phantom divisions. The old right has mostly given up and are waiting for a collapse that never comes. Conservatives root for the king of Israel. Nazbol types foolishly root for China: ask Tibet how ethno-nationalists or “ethno-pluralists” are doing there. And the European identitarians and political New Right have no answers, no solutions, not even a real strategy! Except as a European tool to be used and discarded by Bannon, Dugin, Likud or the Kushners, I suppose. But they ended defeated, demonized and ultimately outlawed like the old post war NS which they looked down upon. Although Hans Ulrich Rudel and the DVU had achieved more than Dugin fanboy Sellner ever will. While the tower of Babel of the Bernard Baruch and Coudenhove-Kalergi EU grows and is here to stay. Unsurprisingly in growing alliance with communist China. While Bibi and Kushner create Middle Eastern facts. It is honestly shocking how utterly weak the right has become and how gullible the masses.

    All I can see is a great kabuki theater to give the plundered and disenfranchised masses the illusion of choice and participation, as they are being replaced, and that leaves room for snake oil salesmen of all flavors. Including the New Right which was in many instances a big scam by failed existences. Including people I actually had reason to have hopes in, like Frauke Petry. And who of us is even truly ready to die for something he believes in? And for what? From Otto Skorzeny to shamefully posting merchant and coomer memes, utterly terrified of being doxxed? It’s pathetic!

    Hitler was defeated, but Europe lost the war.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
  52. @Vaterland

    I sadly mostly agree with you. One nuance: globalism-egalitarianism seems to have largely become an autonomous European phenomenon. Let’s imagine the United States were to vanish tomorrow: would Europe then self-correct? Not clear at all.

  53. @German_reader

    In the Netherlands, most people don’t think about Southern Euros at all except to rag on them. We don’t think they hold any power over us, so we don’t really care about them. Most Dutch also tend to worship the EU (perceived economic benefits) so we’re not leaving soon.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  54. Catiline says:

    Italy is governed by Quislings.

  55. Catiline says:

    The Carolingian area (plus the UK and Scandinavia) that the salaud Wily Durocher pathetically wants to return to has proportionately and absolutely far more invaders living in it than Italy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  56. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    The British had an excuse – the legacy of Empire.

    Italy has no such excuse.

    Anyway, the way things are going, Italy will catch up on the UK very soon.

    Just to repeat, just what in the name of Hell are fucking Bangladeshis doing in Italy?

  57. Anonymous[338] • Disclaimer says:

    But, the Dutch seem to resent the huge net ‘contributions’, (tribute), they are compelled to pay into Brussels year after year.
    And the unlimited eastern European immigration they are expected to accept.

    No accident that The Netherlands effectively nixed the putative Ukrainian accession to the EU, a fact that is hidden and ignored.

    • Replies: @Anon-dutch
  58. A question: is this EU by the Europeans, for the Europeans, and in the best interest of Europeans. Or is it run by the you know whos in the interest of the you know whos and to the detriment of Europeans, perhaps even with the aim of their ultimate destruction, replacement, genocide? If it is the latter then to hell with it.

  59. @Anonymous

    Story is that we get back in trade benefits what we pay to Brussels. Dunno how accurate that is, but it’s true that weak economies in the south draw down the value of the Euro, making life easier for exporting countries (like us) and hampering the economy of these weaker southern countries. There is some resentment about the immigration but there is no party focusing on it, like with Muslims.

    That story about Ukraine is misleading. The referendum on Ukraine barely even had enough people showing up to pass (30 per cent or something, it wasn’t much at any rate).

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