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Why the ‘Left’ Is Dead in the Water (Revisited)
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Introduction: Following his party’s catastrophic defeat, humiliated Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn announced this morning that he would discuss with the party its need for a ‘process of reflection’ and promised that he himself “will lead the party during this period to ensure this discussion takes place.”

I will not hold my breath waiting for Labour to overcome its most acute problems. As a first step toward a recovery I would advise Corbyn and his caricature party that instead of suspending and expelling party members for reading yours truly, instead of expelling MPs for supporting my right to make a living as musician, or spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayer s money trying to appease a foreign ardent right wing Lobby., the Labour partly/hardly should instead make my work compulsory reading for its members and leadership.

In this commentary from February 2019 I explain why the Left is dead in the water and why Corbyn’s Labour is a symptom of the total disaster that is the contemporary Left.

Why the ‘Left’ is Dead in the Water

It seems that there is not much left of the Left and what remains has nothing to do with ‘Left.’

Contemporary ‘Left’ politics is detached from its natural constituency, working people. The so called ‘Left’ is basically a symbolic identifier for ‘Guardian readers’ a critical expression attributed to middle class people who, for some reason, claim to know what is good for the working class. How did this happen to the Left? Why was it derailed and by whom?

Hierarchy is one answer. The capitalist and the corporate worlds operate on an intensely hierarchical basis. The path to leadership within a bank, management of a globally trading company or even high command in the military is of an evolutionary nature. Such power is acquired by a challenging climb within an increasingly demanding system. It is all about the survival of the fittest. Every step entails new challenges. Failure at any step could easily result in a setback or even a career end. In the old good days, the Left also operated on a hierarchical system. There was a long challenging path from the local workers’ union to the national party. But the Left is hierarchical no more.

Left ideology, like working class politics, was initially the byproduct of the industrial revolution. It was born to address the needs and demands of a new emerging class; those who were working day and night to make other people richer. In the old days, when Left was a meaningful adventure, Left politicians grew out of workers’ unions. Those who were distinguished in representing and improving the conditions of their fellow workers made it to the trade unions and eventually into the national parties. None of that exists anymore.

ORDER IT NOW

In a world without manufacturing, the working class have been removed from the consumption chain and demoted into an ‘under class.’ The contemporary Left politician has nothing to do with the workless people let alone the workless class. The unions are largely defunct. You won’t find many Labour politicians who have actually worked in factories and mixed with working people for real. No contemporary Left politician including Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders is the product of a struggle through a highly demanding hierarchical system as such a system hasn’t really existed within the Left for at least four decades.

In most cases, the contemporary Left politician is a middle class university activist groomed through party politics activity. Instead of fighting for manufacturing and jobs, the Left has embraced the highly divisive identitarian battle. While the old Left tended to unite us by leading the fight against the horrid capitalists rather than worrying about whether you were a man or a woman, black or white, Jew or Muslim, gay or hetero, our present-day ‘Left’ actually promotes racial differences and divisions as it pushes people to identify with their biology (skin colour, gender, sexual orientation, Jewish maternal gene etc.) If the old Left united us against the capitalists, the contemporary ‘Left’ divides us and uses the funds it collects from capitalist foundations such as George Soros’ Open Society Institute.

The British Labour party is a prime example of this. It is deaf to the cry of the lower classes. It claims to care ‘for the many’ but in practice is only attentive to a few voices within the intrusive Israeli Lobby. As Britain is struggling with the crucial debate over Brexit, British Labour has been focused instead on spurious allegations of ‘antisemitsm.’ It is hard to see how any Left political body in the West even plans to bring more work to the people. The Left offers nothing in the way of a vision of a better society for all. It is impossible to find the Left within the contemporary ‘Left.’

Why has this happened to the Left, why has it become irrelevant? Because by now the Left is a non-hierarchical system. It is an amalgam of uniquely ungifted people who made politics into their ‘career.’ Most Left politicians have never worked at a proper job where money is exchanged for merit, achievements or results. The vast majority of Left politicians have never faced the economic challenges associated with the experience of being adults. Tragically such people can’t lead a country, a city, a borough or even a village.

The Left had a mostly positive run for about 150 years. But its role has come to an end as the condition of being in the world has been radically transformed. The Left failed to adapt. It removed itself from the universal ethos.

The shift in our human landscape has created a desperate need for a new ethos: a fresh stand point that will reinstate the Western Athenian ethical and universal roots and produce a new canon that aspires for truth and truthfulness as opposed to the current cancerous tyranny of correctness.

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Good! Now the refugees can go back to Paki, Syria, Libya and the rest. All of em. If they weren’t there before Libya fell, they have to get TF out.

    Yeah Right. They’re going to get from Boris what we got from Trump. Nothing, with a huge, heaping helping of Jewish privilege, good and hard.

  2. Instead of fighting for manufacturing and jobs, the Left has embraced the highly divisive identitarian battle.

    Yes, but why did this happen? What drove this political evolution?

    The “leaders” of the left grew alienated from the white, male working class, because the latter were “hard hats” at heart–cultural conservatives who mostly wanted to extract more compensation–wages and benefits–from employers. That was mostly the extent of their leftism.

    So disaffected elements–oppressed blacks, other racial minorities and gays but especially autonomy-seeking women–sought to redefine the left from the late 1950s forward. And the group that was most determined to achieve this redefinition and to assert leadership over it was organized Jewry (which is to say the vast majority of Jews.)

    The white male working class and the WASP cultural leadership class were circumvented, subverted and mostly destroyed as such. Now a deracinated corporate leadership class exports jobs and intellectual property to China for quick, pay-packet gains, etc while a Jewish left-identitarian-cum-neoconservative-shading-into-Likudnik cultural leadership clique lays waste to any remaining traditional cultural links in traditionally paranoid-aggressive Jew style. Having achieved cultural dominance, this coven and its fellow-travelers have the uneasy feeling that their great creation is on very thin ice, inducing all the paranoia that the Jewish psyche can summon up.

    And we see, in “The Trial of Trump,” a Jew-dominated faux-judicial proceeding against a highly Jewified president who constantly seeks Jew approval by giving away the store to the Jewish state and further eroding traditional American freedoms in the name of “protecting Jewish students.”

    Is it tragedy or is it farce?

    • Agree: Colin Wright, Haha, Skeptikal
    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  3. Corbyn failed instantly when he made the slogan ‘for the many, not the few’. This is not a socialist world view. Anyone striving for being in the middle class+ (unlimited wants and all), will wish to be part of the few (limited, though these terms are). A true socialist aims to better the lives of all, including the super rich (the argument being, money doesn’t buy you happiness – for a social animal like a human, a functioning society buys you that happiness!)

    Aside from that, Corbyn and his Labour were for bureaucracy. He was a classical mid 20th century socialist. Casuist, racist, means tested welfare. Progressive taxation. ‘Equality through inequality’. This is an equation that can no longer be sold to the general public.

    Aside from his duplicity with respect to Brexit, Corbyn needed to engage with the anarcho-socialist element. Some level of semi-direct democracy (yellow vest were a good sign some decent fraction of the UK public may want it too), flat taxes, and UBIs instead of means testing – to really bring society into one unit. But these ideas are too radical for the old man, and to some extent, the citizenry. Pointing out that the Netherlands and Switzerland do very well in health outcomes, whilst running a private insurance healthcare model (one that limits the profit motive, granted), is anathema.

    The citizenry wants, and will vote for, whatever moves them away from the threat of destitution, as all of them have to contend with. Means testing has failed, progressive (complex) taxation has failed. Anyone pushing the accelerator on those ideas, is an idealogue blind to the lay of the land, as Jeremy sadly is.

    The left will not be reborn until it embraces its true nature: the Sovereignty of the citizenry – as represented by the electorate, with the representative class serving at their pleasure.

    That the Jewish press ((MSM)) ganging up on him, didn’t help. But I swing socialist (non-statist), and although I don’t vote for humans (Aristotle stated elections lead to oligarchy, and I agree), I advised my friends to vote conservative, because come what may, there was a (mostly) directly democratic vote, and regardless of Parliament’s belief it is Sovereign, it should be respected.

    Jeremy could have gone toe to toe with the Conservatives. Akin to the 1940 election when Churchill flipped the Conservatives and installed Wilkie as a pro war ‘republican’, a Brexit vs Brexit election, would have gone to Labour. But Corbyn is not a leader, he is a duplicitous coward, and he got the results of his actions.

  4. anonymous[307] • Disclaimer says:

    [The humiliated Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn announced this morning that he would discuss with the party its need for a ‘process of reflection’ and promised that he himself “will lead the party during this period to ensure this discussion takes place.”]

    When a weak ‘leader’ apologizes to the criminal Tribe to appease them, like Congress woman, Ilhan Omar in the US, then that ‘leader’ is a DAMAGED good and cannot be effective. It is the leader’s duty to expose the enemy to the public at large. The ‘leader’ must be brave enough to stand on its feet and face the phony accusation and fight it back, but it is NOT the ‘leader”s right to be COWARD against the enemy.

    The base of the enemy’s strength, economic power, must be targeted and destroyed.

  5. utu says:

    “The Left failed to adapt.” – Rather the opposite. The Left adapted to the neoliberalism all too well. Remember Clinton’s fiscal conservatism? Now the Left became the tool of oligarchy to divide and polarize society with its racial identity and gender politics plus the open borders so the Right does not have to advocate open borders anymore as they used to so the Right and can feign an ineffectual opposition to the open borders to get support of the “deplorables” for lower taxes for the rich and reduction of regulations for corporations.

    • Agree: joannf
    • Replies: @animalogic
  6. Sometimes, the news is what isn’t mentioned.

    Corbyn had the effrontery to murmur criticisms of Israel. However mild they were, that was of course intolerable. He became an ‘anti-semite.’

    …and that drum was banged incessantly in the lead up to the election.

    …and then Corbyn suffered a crushing defeat.

    but there is now total silence about the ‘anti-semitism.’ Britons wanted Brexit, they didn’t want socialism, etc.

    Perhaps — but perhaps it’s also not desired to emphasize the extent to which the Israel Lobby can now dictate the outcome of elections not merely in the Mother Country, but also in Airstrip One.

    …but everyone knows. No one with serious political aspirations in Britain is going to say anything critical about Israel — ever again.

  7. @Oscar Peterson

    Wrong. Read the article. The left failed because there are no industrial jobs, no unions, and no “working class” left. Get real.

    • Troll: Digital Samizdat
    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  8. @obwandiyag

    “Wrong. Read the article. The left failed because there are no industrial jobs, no unions, and no “working class” left. Get real.”

    Why don’t you actually read what I wrote:

    Now a deracinated corporate leadership class exports jobs and intellectual property to China for quick, pay-packet gains”

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    , @MBlanc46
    , @Miro23
  9. Rebel0007 says:

    The Problems in Europe and China are quite different than the problems in Russia, Canada, and America. European countries and China have basically reached a point where their populations cannot expand anymore. This places those countries in a state of economic contraction.

    I think that so many European countries are so vehemently anti-Russia is simply because of Russia’s land mass. Russia is the only counyry on the Eurasian continent that has room for economic expansion. European countries have had a long history of expanding beyond their borders for economic expansion.

    The United States would have been better off to stay out of both world wars, and all of the other wars, which were often fought for the interests of European countries, and are now fought also for Israel and Saudi Arabia. The European countries now like to blame America since it is primarily our military that is in those countries, but European countries have all imported oil and benefited by the U.S. military being in those countries.

    You may recall that Trump wanted to pull out of Syria, and once again England created a false flag attack.

    It was actually the French government that was so anti-Qadafi because of Qadafi’s plan to start an African trans-national gold based dinar.

    The Scandanavian countries economies are almost 50% oil exports and 50% rapacious international banking.

    The European governments would not cooperate with Russia because they thought that if they could impose enough pressure on Russia, largely through their puppet America, that Putin would be overthrown. They have fantadies of land theft, increading their power. What else is new?

    • Replies: @animalogic
  10. @Ilya G Poimandres

    Corbyn, the previous remain parliament etc were outwitted by the Machiavellian Turk.

    Many think he is merely a clown, but right here on Unz, Tobias Langdon noted he is even more clever than the Scottish warmonger of the Iraq infamy.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  11. should instead make my work compulsory reading for its members and leadership.

    You remind me of Socrates, who declared that, instead of being punished, he should be awarded a monthly pension.

    P.S. I am making an effort to experience the new Unz system at work.

  12. @Colin Wright

    The tribe has interbred well with the aristocracy, so yes – Israel was an issue. Certainly Corbyn was destroyed by the ((MSM)) during the campaign for this, and it added to the main reason he lost – his personal unpopularity. (amazing that a couple % of the population can turn 98% against another so effortlessly!)

    It was always gonna be difficult to sell spend through debt when the country is at 500% of GDP for total debt. Not that spending on infrastructure is as ‘stealing from the future’ as the debt that financed the conspicuous consumption of the last few decades, but that may be too many complicated words to sell in a campaign to 70m people!

    Corbyn failed because he was a coward. He was a coward with his position on Brexit, none of his socialist policies (however outdated imo), would have sailed passed the EU, so a Brexit backed by the electorate was a godsend he threw to the curb. And he was a coward with respect to Israel.. maybe that was a much more uphill battle given the Jewish control of the press, but succumbing to that consideration is just more evidence of weakness.

    I wonder where Corbyn would have been most useful. Really, he was best as a side voice. Speaking truth to power. He did not do well when granted power though – he seemed to aim for more power at the expense of his beliefs. Another politican then, if perhaps less unprincipled than the others on show!

  13. Contemporary ‘Left’ politics is detached from its natural constituency

    Because of course the natural constituency of a Labour Party of an island in Western Europe are some poor displaced people living in a strip of land in the Middle East.

  14. @Amerimutt Golems

    Sorry, not sure who you mean by the Turk. If you mean Boris, yeah – he is a clown, but as I found out during uni, a confident bullshitter gets far! Speak what you believe, rather than what you know, and speak it confidently, and people will fall for it. A cheap tactic, but BoJo certainly uses it to maximum value!

  15. Does Angelo Codevilla’s critique of America’s Ruling Class apply to the British?

    From afar, it does. Britain’s Left is the same as the Left everywhere, literally a religious cult whose dogma, stripped to its essence, is the following:

    We are superior, but prior to modern times we were ignored or ridiculed as weak. We studied at the same universities under the same Post-Modernist instructors, and whatever we designate as good (and don’t complain that this changes constantly) is beyond debate. Our righteousness cannot be questioned, and any who lack sufficient zeal are loathesome sinners. While we won’t admit it, our greatest joy is quite literally terrorizing those we loathe. We terrorize them by identifying whatever it is they love and moving to destroy or debauch it. Our stated goals to create Utopia are empty, for our entire purpose is exclusively the naked exercise of power.

    The sinners love their nation? We’ll submerge it in a flood of culturally alien peoples.
    The sinners love their children? We’ll take their children from them and brainwash them in schools where the children will learn to be dependent on us.
    The sinners desire economic independence? We’ll cartelize the economy to the point where the slightest indication of apostasy will be grounds for economic destruction.
    The sinners desire freedom of conscience? We’ll snoop every act, no matter how tiny, for deviation from our Mantra-of-the-Day and quite literally empty the prisons of rapists and murders so we have room to cage those whose consciences are filled with what we deem sin.
    The sinners desire a religion other than the one we dictate to them? We’ll bind them in laws, force them to their knees, and kick them in the face until we’re exhausted, and when we’ve had enough fun, we’ll put our boot to their lips and insist they kiss it.

    “If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever.”

    ― George Orwell, 1984

    Speech codes to enforce a cargo cult’s catechism. Can we imagine a clearer illustration of this?

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
  16. cranc says:
    @Colin Wright

    No one with serious political aspirations in Britain is going to say anything critical about Israel — ever again.

    Right off the bat, the Lobby are moving to shut down anti-establishment discourse online. Day One !
    And this in the context of Trump’s EO hannukah gift.

    Johnson’s will be remembered as an Israeli UK government.

  17. cranc says:

    There are some excellent people on the Left (principled, altruistic, compassionate), but for the most part, they have no clear idea what they are up against.
    Corbyn (the man) seemed to embody a certain zeitgeist of these days : a kind of polite, gutless opposition to a psychopathic machine.
    Corbynism was (-short of a huge mobilisation of engaged, educated and active party members) only ever going to be a cargo cult. That mobilisation was only ever going to happen through the parallel ‘party within a party’ called Momentum. For my money, the fate of Corbyn’s Labour was sealed when Momentum was over run by a coup, led by it’s founder Jon Lansman in Feb 2017. All hope of democratising the party was lost then and also later at the 2018 conference when Lansman again stepped in to squash candidate selection reform.
    Without supportive MPs, any media, any empowered trade unions or a strong enough membership base to push the platform through, Corbyn was going nowhere.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  18. A “Labour” party which abandons the working class is a malignant tumor on that Body Politic unfortunate enough to host it.

  19. @Ilya G Poimandres

    ‘… his personal unpopularity. (amazing that a couple % of the population can turn 98% against another so effortlessly!)’

    You’re the second person to imply that Jews make up 2% of the U.K.’s population.

    They don’t. It’s here in the US that they’re 2%. In the U.K. they’re only 0.5%.

    Obviously, that only makes your point stronger — but that ‘2%’ is getting turned into a fact, when it’s not.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  20. @Ilya G Poimandres

    ‘…I wonder where Corbyn would have been most useful. Really, he was best as a side voice. Speaking truth to power. He did not do well when granted power though – he seemed to aim for more power at the expense of his beliefs. Another politican then, if perhaps less unprincipled than the others on show!’

    From now on, there will be two types of politicians in the U.K.

    Those who refrain from saying anything critical of Israel at all, and those who have decided they’re no longer interested in holding public office.

    It’s the same thing as here — only not quite as extreme. At least the U.K. isn’t getting ordered to start a war with Iran. Still, every decade Airstrip One becomes more indistinguishable from the Mother Country.

    It’s a pity. The US is actually my favorite country — but I’ve no desire to see the rest of the world become identical to it.

  21. @Colin Wright

    Sorry, I was being quick and assuming! Somebody mentioned 260k to me before, but I didn’t feel like trusting them, you are right – that number was correct, so 0.5% wagging the 99.5% is more accurate!

  22. @Colin Wright

    Those who refrain from saying anything critical of Israel at all, and those who have decided they’re no longer interested in holding public office.

    Israeli iniquity will only mean one thing – when the masses snap, they will have the same reaction to Judaism that has occurred countless times before.

    It is as if Israel, seeing a pot of boiling water (Gentiles), decides that forcing a lid on it (it’s anti-Semetic laws) – in the hope of stopping the steam escaping – is the solution. All the while, it will ignore the flame under the pot (its ideology)..

    I see why Hitler began to hate Judaism – not that I will ever succumb to that emotion – but observing willful ignorance and indifference in others certainly doesn’t push you towards them or their beliefs!

    • Replies: @Vitaly Purto
    , @OilcanFloyd
  23. @Jim Christian

    How about all pre-1965 immigrants that nobody voted on? If you don’t have documented pre-65 legal ancestors, you also have to go. That’s completely fair.

    Atzmon doesn’t completely grasp the working class himself. Immigration was a terrible deal for us. He also apparently hasn’t experienced the same diversity that the working class experiences. Maybe he expects demographic change to take care of the problem, but that will likely just make the problem worse. The Dalai Lama seems to understand.

  24. @Oscar Peterson

    No. You think the problem is not enough free-market capitalism and union-busting.

    Which would be wrong.

  25. Anonymous[592] • Disclaimer says:

    Boris isn’t right wing, politically he seems to occupy about the same position as Tony Blair who also won by a huge majority. That combination of social liberalism/fiscal conservatism seems to be the winning formula in Britain, especially England, regardless of whether it’s the Tories or Labour presenting it.

    Even a lot on the left don’t seem that upset that Boris has won, because most know full well he’s not a true right winger and is basically centre-left, especially on social issues which is the most important thing to leftists.

  26. …and Britain has triumphed over the specter of Auschwitz:

    ‘…Israeli Foreign Minister Israel Katz called Mr Johnson’s win a “victory of values” over anti-Semitism, referring to accusations that the Labour Party had tolerated prejudice against Jews among its members…’

    He’s a klutz. Everyone got the message; rubbing it in would be counterproductive.

    Now it’s all about pretending opposition to Israel had nothing to do with it.

    …which is a half-truth. Absent a universe in which human beings had prehensile tails and swung from tree to tree, Corbyn was no more likely to win than Bernie Sanders.

    However, the takeaway is there. No British politician seriously desirous of electoral triumph is ever going to criticize Israel again.

    …unless stupid dicks like Katz kvell.

    Can I give him money?

  27. @OilcanFloyd

    ‘…The Dalai Lama seems to understand.’

    If you really want to get anywhere, you have to get away from that.

    Why should you feel you need the Dalai Lama’s approval?

    As long as you allow your oppressors to dictate the referees of the contest, you will always lose the contest.

  28. I’m not sure what you mean. I’m just pointing out that Atzmon has no idea about the working class, the impact of immigration on the working class, or of race as most people deal with it, while the Dalai Lama does. Neither man really matters much to me, and I could have chosen examples other than the Dalai Lama. I chose the Dalai Lama because he is another foreigner with no clue commenting on issues that are none of his business, who is at least somewhat right.

  29. MBlanc46 says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    It’s not his intent to read what you wrote, but to ride his pet hobby-horses.

  30. Gildad,

    A lot of your criticism of Corbyn and Labour is personal as you were kicked out and rejected from the party you once loved for their support of Palestine and the resistance. Corbyn was leader of the pack recognizing Hamas as a legitimate resistance group not a terrorist organization.
    During the election cycle you focused on the rise and fall Labour polling as response to Corbyn standing up to the “J” lobby. If only he had grown a pair and told the lobby go to hell, stuck to his guns and supported you and Livingston. Labour would have won. I do not thinks so.

    Corbyn’s defeat is way bigger then then the “J” problem as I told you when you were going after Sanders and his J identity.

    Another Labour dogma polemic: If you are a Jew and support Israel you are an supremacist apartheid racist.Zionist. All rejected!!
    Labour became the fascist. You have to admit your ideas about J power have been rejected.

    • Replies: @Wael Ahmad
    , @Colin Wright
  31. Labour became the fascist

    If only.
    This article was originally from February 2019. Atzmon is saying what I have been saying for almost two decades. The “left” in any country was rooted in trade unionism. Trade unions have historically been opposed to immigration and free trade, understanding that both were attacks on working people. They were also opposed to war. The motto used to be ‘turn swords into plowshares’. The trade union movement began to change, when all of the pre-boomer generation was gone. The rough and tumble shop floor types were slowly replaced with more “educated” types. The old “left” was confrontational about ownership of work. The response of the “right” was to bribe politicians to allow for off-shoring manufacturing, which was then blamed on the unions for wanting better pay and working conditions for their members. The new “left” had no response, so it turned to social justice crap, which played right into the hands of the globalists. The political parties that supported the trade union movement have treated their traditional working class supporters with contempt, and the result is what is described in this article.
    The old left/right paradigm is long dead. What passes for the “left” today, is the “white wine socialists” despised by the old time trade unionists.

    • Agree: Colin Wright, animalogic
    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  32. The Left had a mostly positive run for about 150 years.

    Are you just conveniently excluding Communism?

    How about the trillions spent on leftist programs that have failed?

    The problem with the left is that they prefer globalist egalitarian fantasy to reality. In their hearts they want to believe that White men are the problem and they just need to liberate the (fill in latest group).

    If they stuck to serving workers of their respective countries then they would win every election.

    There is no working class party. Leftists are globalists and view the US and UK as the enemy. They think the world would be a utopia if not for Western powers. Thus in their minds the west is the problem.

  33. … our present-day ‘Left’ actually promotes racial differences and divisions as it pushes people to identify with their biology (skin colour, gender, sexual orientation, Jewish maternal gene etc.).

    But … biology doesn’t exist! It’s just a social construct! 😀 😀 😀

  34. Anonymous[218] • Disclaimer says:

    The only people who vote Labour now are those on benefits (welfare for Americans), whose percentage tends to be highest in immigrant areas (like many parts of London) and formerly industrial areas of the North and government workers like NHS employees and teachers.

    The proportion of industrial jobs who would traditionally vote Labour are minuscule in the UK now, probably among the lowest proportion in the developed world, which is why Labour are almost solely reliant on voters who are dependent on the government for their living. Unfortunately for Labour the percentage of people dependent on the government is not high enough in most areas for them to get anywhere close to winning. The majority of workers in Britain now are private sector office workers who have no incentive to vote Labour what so ever. The only thing that will save Labour as a political force in its current form is if mass immigration of unproductive immigrants gets high enough that they form a majority along with the remaining native Labour voters.

  35. @Ilya G Poimandres

    “I see why Hitler began to hate Judaism – not that I will ever succumb to that emotion…”
    Really? As far as I’m concern you’re as good Nazi as Hitler was.

    • LOL: Fran Taubman, AaronB
    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  36. The working class is not dead in the water. The working class IS the left and we are still alive. You could say we are adrift on the water. Even drifting toward the falls.

    The working class is divided. A divided working class is a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. It’s not an accident that we are divided. The ruling class keeps us that way in order to neuter us.

    What is now referred to as the left is the enemy of the working Class. It remains to be seen if the working class and the right will form an alliance out of necessity.

    Many among the new so called left are in fact working class. But they don’t know it. They think they are queers or feminists or POC.

  37. If there is one thing that I agree with Gilad Atzmon about Jeremy Corbyn it’s that his weakness towards the Jewish lobby & media smears, but, who in all of Britain is not terrified of the Jews?! even within down to earth working class. when did we see one working class demonstration against the Jewish bankers in the city? when did we see a university academic defending David Irving or David Icke freedom of speech? None.

    Jeremy Corbyn is the normal case, not the exceptional, but he’s very aware of the hard life of the working class, and he’s a conscious and highly moral personality, so he can adopt the working class struggle and aspire to lead it, without the necessity to a member of that class, as long as he can have enough courage to face and suffer the consequences of that struggle, but he proved that he’s not.

    I also sensed that Atzmon’s article is somehow underestimating the part of the Jewish community in Britain & worldwide, the media savage assault on him, I hope that I’m wrong, but you have to be less critical of Corbyn, and more severe with the Jewish cabal and the traitors in the labor party, the fifth column from within, who deserve much more blame than Corbyn, and whose role are never mentioned in this article, which is sadly wrong.

  38. @Fran Taubman

    It’s clear that you’re a Jewish fanatic, have no problem with the apartheid state, and denying Hamas the legitimate right to resist and defend, How come that you’re on this site?

  39. Desmond says:

    Great read. Listen to his reason for a while and read his articles.
    For me Labour hate the working class or those on welfare those that seem unwashed and unclean. Maybe as pointed out the trade unions forget even now they are supposed to help the workers to forge ahead not remain at the bottom.
    I don’t vote Labour since Blair arrived saw his truth as lies and so it remains. The back bencher who became the current leader sold his ethics oddly his brother didn’t and worth checking out.

  40. Haha says:
    @WorkingClass

    If the left “thinks” (if delusions can be called thinking) that being queer, feminist, or politically correct is being socialist, then the left is truly and permanently dead. And if becoming an identity-obsessed raving tranny is the only road to “progress”, then to hell with progress and the leftist road.

  41. @Ilya G Poimandres

    I see why Hitler began to hate Judaism – not that I will ever succumb to that emotion – but observing willful ignorance…

    I tend to despise those who hate me and wish me harm, and especially so when I/the group I belong to have not earned the enemy status. I refuse to love my enemy.

  42. Miro23 says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    “Now a deracinated corporate leadership class exports jobs and intellectual property to China for quick, pay-packet gains”

    They’re doing this now because it’s possible. And it’s not just outsourcing. Open information/digitalization is putting pressure on every kind of work, with middle class earnings disappearing across the board. The end result is a new feudalism, with a mass of low wage workers (including professionals) ruled by a small elite of international network controllers.

    The only antidote that I can see, is a national political system genuinely for the people and controlled by the people (actively and locally like the Swiss). It implies higher prices for goods and services and the national interest taking precedence over global corporate interests.

    In the current environment, the UK needs the same, and not coincidentally, the UK’s globalized elite is doing everything they can to prevent it (including global elitist Boris Johnson – who only talks “Brexit” to gain power).

  43. @WorkingClass

    The working class is not dead in the water. The working class IS the left and we are still alive.

    The working class is the left? Why is the left so adamant about third world immigration without regard to wages?

    The left in the US is more concerned with “gun crime” (Black crime) and blaming White people for failed leftist programs than wages.

    The left in the UK is more concerned with “knife crime” (Black crime) and blaming White people for failed leftist programs than wages.

    The working class was ditched by the left in the 60’s for egalitarian fantasy. The White working class in the UK and US are pretty much viewed as a willing rape victim by both sides of the political establishment. They aren’t represented by anyone.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @WorkingClass
  44. @Curmudgeon

    The response of the “right” was to bribe politicians to allow for off-shoring manufacturing, which was then blamed on the unions for wanting better pay and working conditions for their members. The new “left” had no response,

    The unions made a _huge_ tactical error (because of ideological blinders) when they were at the height of their power.

    What they should have sought is partial ownership in lieu of pay raises (particularly for the higher paid or more senior workers). Then they would have had the power to prevent the off-shoring that has doomed them today.

    Hindsight is twenty-twenty, but folks who don’t have good foresight get _burned_.

  45. @Vitaly Purto

    (I was going to be ascorbic and sarcastic,, but

  46. Jeff Z says:

    ‘process of reflection’

    Wordspeak for “think of a better lie.”

    They can only polish a pile of fecal matter so well.

  47. Am not from British Isles as most here are, and as I accept as valid opinions and criticism by Brits upon my Nation US, I hope that a view from outside is accepted.
    It seems that many think the British Isles has the ability to compete in worlds markets much like it once did before 1870’s, and forgets that today there is not enough domestic industry, natural resources or manpower to claim self sufficient means to keep nation viable.
    Domesticly it does not produce competitive products that cannot be produced elsewhere of same or higher quality and lower prices.
    It is a consumer of hi- technology not a producer of, and it is only through mainly through its financial institutions and portions of Commonwealth’s resources within foreign nations that provide the Sovereign Power Structure to remain intact, with enough control over its taxation policies to make its domestic laboring forces support themselves,
    In what amounts to a closed loop, industry and finance are subsidizing the society but by taxing their pay regains most of the expenses back.
    Take the entity known as the “CITY OF LONDON”, it diverts huge amounts of and from the wealthiest portion into autonomous foreign financial institutions, originally set in place during the last years of Britians Colonial Commonwealth, that are beyond the reach of even the Governments taxing authority.
    And no most of that wealth did not come from domestic productivity, but in spite of its lack of.
    Today one of Britain’s largest profit driven enterprises is its armaments industry, this is leaving out its financial institutions as an industry although it basicly is, but it imports all of the material and also brainpower to build and assemble those armaments, leaving but a dwindling need for unskilled domestic laborers and now due to digital age advancements even a dwindling number of old mid level managers.
    Not saying US is not finding itself in same condition, but the natural resource wealth of US
    available through its extraction processes helps keep it afloat as a nation.
    It is today struggling to regain its hold upon the technology revolution leadership but that is also finding itself feeding brain power, causing other nations a brain drain, and having to depend upon Israel’s far more advanced Cyber programs.
    While the US dollar remains strong, largely do to Petro Dollar being crammed down worlds throat as a sovereign power it cannot and will not ever be able to repay its foreign lenders, lenders that keep, much like Britain the domestic economy subsidizing an unproductive population.
    For years the do.estic economy enjoyed cheap cost of foreign and low wage industrial goods, but oddly at same time middle class grew in wealth the lower class wages and elimination from aging expendable income above sustainable living need, grew exponentially larger every year.
    Today we see the middle income classes of both Britain and US being gradually forced to pay higher taxes or higher fees, from what used to be Government managed programs into privatized/government partnerships..
    Just an opinion , and you know what value is placed upon them.

  48. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…Corbyn’s defeat is way bigger then then the “J” problem as I told you when you were going after Sanders and his J identity.

    …You have to admit your ideas about J power have been rejected…’

    This is a non sequitur. If Corbyn’s defeat is about more than ‘the Jewish problem,’ then that defeat doesn’t necessarily indicate anything at all about the acceptance or rejection of ideas about Jewish power.

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too, Fran.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  49. @Colin Wright

    Colin are you drinking this evening? Are you following Gilad? He has made himself the center of the story of the Labour defeat. It is sort of amusing really like a little kid.
    I guess you have to read his facebook page to fully appreciate his narcissism.

    He was banned from the party and they protested at his concerts (affecting his income, they essentially tried to get people to stop supporting his music) calling him an anti semite. He is very bitter, and claims that expelling him and not standing up to Jewish lobby (who were calling Labour and Corbyn antisemitic) Instead Labour caved and apologized for their anti- semitic views, and thru many MPs with anti zionist ideas out of the party. Like Ken Livingston.

    If only they had told the Jewish lobby to fuck off and not acquieased they would have won.
    Returning to my point:

    Corbyn wasn’t defeated he was demolished and the Torres got working class votes from areas that voted Labour from before WW2.
    They define the defeat as a referendum on progressive, socialist ideas not on Israel or Palestine which is far far from most peoples minds. This is a global phenomenon. People who are anti immigration are tiered of being called racist and all the identity politics.

    People of the world are tired of secular global humanist dictating their morality tow the rest of the world. Thus the defeat of the EU and Brexit.
    Get it.

    The defeat of Corbyn and Labour had nothing to do with the Zionist lobby and Gilads theory that it would loose because of there refusal to stand up instead of throwing him under the bus.

  50. Dick says:

    Corbyn was the unfortunate victim of the anti-semitism smear from the usual sources. Whether, he would have won the election without the extreme bias of the MSM is debatable, since Brexit was a major factor. I find the following quotes self explanatory:

    “An anti-Semite used to mean a man who hated Jews. Now it means a man who is hated by Jews.”– Joe Sobran

    “Anti-Semitic…its a trick, we always use it.” – Israeli Minister Shulamit Aloni

  51. Let me keep it simple and short for y’all.

    LEFT = COMMUNIST

    Period !

    He’s just too afraid of his own shadow to say it out straight ! He’s so use to taking 1,000 words to AVOID being straight and direct, he goes off on senseless tangents no one can understand.

    But I’m a straight shooter. So there you have it.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  52. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… Instead Labour caved and apologized for their anti- semitic views…’

    What anti-semitic views? Nobody ever provides any examples of what these might be. Would you? After all, you apparently know what they are.

  53. @Colin Wright

    Here Frau is right – not that Corbyn is an anti-Semite, but he caved on the issue, and his lack of courage in standing up to bullying made him look guilty to the public.. of course the media did its part in amplifying that message, and that didn’t help. He was just too much of an appeaser and coward in power.

    Doesn’t make him a racist, there’s 30+ years of public history showing him to be anything but, but the weakness he showed when faced with lies is not a quality most choose for leadership!

  54. @Fran Taubman

    Corbyn wasn’t defeated he was demolished and the Torres got working class votes from areas that voted Labour from before WW2.

    He was defeated by Farrage most of all, and that for the most part was because he was disingenuous on his Brexit stance. On that note, Farrage put out a contract (not a manifesto, there’s a dumb move for search engines!) that was very much Labour – scrap the house of Lords, reform first past the post, direct access to referendum if 11% of the electorate sign a petition Ithe Brexit party offered a reasonable back door to scrapping Brexit!!).. Farage should have led Labour, if what they campaigned for wasn’t just another politial lie!

    But Corbyn played the high card of moral, decent leadership, yet on the big issue, he showed himself to be a liar, or at the least a politician like the rest of them. There is little that will switch people off like fake honesty.

    His Brexit stance was with the electorate, and had he aligned himself with the Tory position, there would have been nothing between them on that issue, so Labour voters would not have gone Tory/Brexit party, whether they liked Brexit or not. This shows him to be a bad strategist as well – not an issue when you are a backbencher, but it is when you have all the power.

    The man just had no fight in him. And the meek, generally (and for worse), get crucified.

  55. @Little Bright Feather

    Statist left = communist.

    Anarcho socialists would take umbrage with Mordachai and his works anyways.

  56. @Colin Wright

    You can read about it. I am not saying they were anti semitic. They were anti zionist and Corbyn was buddies with Hamas and Hezbollah. He seemed to not like Israel very much.
    Jews in the Labour party called him and the anti zionist anti-semitic.
    Are you following. I do not know why you bug me so much.
    I have a point of view if you do not like it that is fine. In this case I am just reporting the news.
    Since he lost the election it is a mute point.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  57. @utu

    ““The Left failed to adapt.” – Rather the opposite. The Left adapted to the neoliberalism all too well. ”
    Excellent point.
    True, there was varying degrees of complicity by Left/Labour parties around the world — ie
    NZ labour & Blairite labour were neoliberal to the core.
    And then there were the betrayals of working people — Syriza is the one of the worst. I’d mention Obama’s monumental betrayals, however, he’s about as Left as Stalin. Nixon was a more convincing “socialist”….

  58. @Rebel0007

    “…they [the Europeans] thought that if they could impose enough pressure on Russia, largely through their puppet America ….”
    You are jesting, right? The US is Europe’s “puppet” ??
    So when the US fights tooth & nail to stop nordstream two & the Germans are adamant as to the deal going through, this is really a case of Germany manipulating the US?
    Mind bogglingly delusional.

  59. @cranc

    Yes, criticisms of Corbyn’s…lack of spine are valid.
    The charges of antisemitism should have been aggressively & rationally refuted. Support for Palestine is NOT antisemitism.
    Further, Corbyn should have relentlessly sought to expel or castrate the Blarite traitors in the Party. Corbyn was elected by members because members loathed Blairism.

    • Agree: Ilya G Poimandres
    • Replies: @cranc
  60. @John Johnson

    The working class is the left? Why is the left so adamant about third world immigration without regard to wages?

    Sorry I was not clear. What I’m trying to say is that the people who are adamant about third world immigration are either not working class or are not aware that they are working class. In either case they are not the left.

    The woke are not the left in the same way that a man is not a women. It’s unfortunate that Americans say left and right when what they mean is Democrat and Republican. It leads to utter confusion in discussions such as this one.

  61. @WorkingClass

    “It’s not an accident that we [the working class] are divided. The ruling class keeps us that way in order to neuter us.”
    Quite correct. The Right is assisted in this by the new pseudo-left — the PC crowd (the ones who secretly agree that workers are “deplorables”). “Identity” splinters workers & their interests.
    Elites have, since the 1950’s (Hayek etc) consciously planned to destroy any possibility of workers’ affecting economic/political outcomes. (What did Buffet say? Something like, there is a class war, & it’s my side winning it).
    And it must be admitted, that after the chaos of the 70’s (stagflation, oil prices, lack of leadership in the UK & US, leaving the gold standard, the final whimper of the Vietnam War etc) people were near desperate for stability. Both Reagan & Thatcher were well able to sell their snake oil…

  62. Rebel0007 says:

    Making matters worse for England, it appears that Scotland is going to seperate, and who knows, maybe Northern Ireland as well.

    Maybe they should just turn it into a giant steam punk theme park. They have castles. a ferris wheel, a bridge that a nursrey rhyme was written about, Sort of like an Oliver Twist with children begging Boris for pouridge, just make sure that Andrew is in the dungeon.

  63. @Jim Christian

    No, no, my friend! Trump has been battling the DeepState/Media/MIC for 3 years. The trials begin the day AFTER the NEXT ELECTION, dontcha know?
    Never mind all that anti-semitism legislation and Executive Orders, 0 miles of Wall built, the lack of deportations and the increase in legal immigration. Don’t get bogged down in details my friend. The FISA report is coming out soon! We have to stop the impeachment!

    Trump: The Great (((Betrayer)))

  64. @Colin Wright

    From now on, there will be two types of politicians in the U.K.

    Those who refrain from saying anything critical of Israel at all, and those who have decided they’re no longer interested in holding public office.

    There is nothing much to really be gained from criticising Israel though, Virtually nobody considers it a pivotal issue and getting overly involved in a Israel-Palestine affairs is quite confusing and even enraging to many people who feel that they are being overlooked in favour of a Middle-Eeastern land dispute.

    But for those clued into the so-called “Jewish Question”, it is interesting to see the priorities of the fat cat Jews, Labour under Corbyn was incredibly Culturally Marxist, there would have been new hate-speech laws regarding Islamaphobia and immigration from outside the EU would increase dramatically. This diversity and one-way equality would seemingly be very appealing to the fat cat Jews, however the chink in the armour was that Corbyn would halt arms sales to Israel and KSA and denounce them at every opportunity, including at the UN which would be quite spectacular seeing as the newsreading public are only accustomed to “madmen” from Iran, Libya and whatnot raving about Israel.

    There was nothing anti-semitic about Labour at the high level and the only think that would have negatively affected Jews under Labour would be a higher tax rate for those earning a yearly salary of £80,000 or more. A very large percentage of Jews fall into this bracker but even then, due to thier small population, most people in this bracket are not Jews.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
  65. @Colin Wright

    Oh please!!! Did Blair throw out any pro Palestinians from the party.
    Mild you say. There is a difference between criticism of Israel and saying Israel does not have the right to exist.
    That is what Corbyns flirtation with Hamas was about.
    And Livingston saying that Hitler was a Zionist. Things got a little chippy in Labour to say the least. They are out of control and they knew it and did not care. Why?
    Because like Gilad they stupidly think people buy into their Jewish power concept.
    Not true. Most conservatives and working people support Jews and Israel because they side with them over Palestinian propaganda and corrupt Palestinian and Islamic dictators who are billionaires while their people starve.

    When was the last time Fatah and Hamas had an election? The leaders don’t want to loose their cash cow Swiss bank accounts.

    No you are correct you do not have to be a Jew hater to criticize Israel but it sure the fuck is not a crazy theory when you observe the 2019 Labour Party. Look at the Muslims they hate all Jews not just Israel. Why? Religion not land.

  66. cranc says:
    @animalogic

    Lansman of course joined in with the smear campaign against his own party (as did just about all Labour media figures).
    You have to ask why ?
    The only answer that makes sense is one considered ‘amtisemitic’ : that Jewish groups and individuals have a hugely disproprtionate influence on the boundaries of political discourse on both the Left and the Right. It is just a matter of fact.
    The only way Labour (or anyone) can break out of the stigmatising smear of anti-semitism is to delve into the whole argument around Jewish power, Judaism and the Jewish value system.
    This is why writers like Atzmon stand out : they dare to state what is incontestably true, yet utterly taboo in today’s politics. There is a fundamental antithesis between Jewish identitarianism (or Judaism, properly considered) and socialist ethics and principles. Until the socialists return to some kind of acknowledgement of that straight forward truth, they are like the dead mouse that my cat bats around on the kitchen floor.

  67. @Fran Taubman

    When was the last time Fatah and Hamas had an election?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election

    I believe that the consequences of this last attempt at democracy showed to the electorate that this path is closed.

    Look at the Muslims they hate all Jews not just Israel. Why?

    If everyone in the room shows a hate for me, I tend to look in the mirror first..

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  68. @WorkingClass

    The woke are not the left in the same way that a man is not a women.

    It is not just that the woke in the US support illegal immigration–that is admittedly not left.

    It is that the woke in the US support free food, housing, education, health care etc etc etc for illegal immigrants. _That_ is left.

    So your “man” is a tranny. 🙂

  69. @Ilya G Poimandres

    I believe that the consequences of this last attempt at democracy showed to the electorate that this path is closed.

    Oh and nothing to do with their cottage industry of “pay us while we work for peace”
    Their billions in swiss bank accounts?
    Oh I see it is only the Jews who love money. Abbas is one of the richest people in the ME,
    and Hammas’s top Jihadist own villas on the sea while they send kids to the border fence to be shot at.

    Yeah I am looking in the mirror and loving what I see next to these clowns.

  70. If you could send me links to your claims, I would be happy (er! 😀 ).

    If not, I will have to go down the common route: elites are a thing unto themselves – in the US, Israel, or Gaza. To expect otherwise outside of anything below semi-direct democracy is foolish!

    These clowns though, are they not born of conflict? And what is the root of their conflict? It is not the Jewish desire for peace? But the Jewish desire for peace is in a land that is unfortunately already taken, and which the buyers did not negotiate for honestly or equitibly! I don’t absolutely disagree with the Kushner plan btw.. the $$ value is much much too small, and the timing is 70+ years too late, but overall, the idea is ok, so long as that citizenry agreed to it..

    Still, do you believe Gaza would elect anything different?

    I’ll go on a personal aside here. I have, lately in my short life, come to the realization that life generally reflects what is thrown at it by the external.. try it out for yourself in the street in if you are curious: laugh, and notice how most laugh with you; cry, and notice how most cry with you; give rise to anger, and see how the same happens for your opposites, with you., even with eccentricities, which I am partial to, others try to emulate.. Do you not see the pain that Gaza has received for decades? Zion wants and needs a home, sure, but if it builds it on another’s, is that not taking what is not given – is that not breaking the 8th commandment?!

    And if you acknowledge even a sliver of that break, isn’t the reaction natural?

    How did Jews feel when they were kicked out of their many abodes over the centuries? How is the Palestinian cause and emotion different?

  71. Zion wants and needs a home, sure, but if it builds it on another’s, is that not taking what is not given – is that not breaking the 8th commandment?!

    I don’t care if Jews have a home or not. I’d just like to see them out of the U.S.

    As far as any Jewish yearning for a homeland goes, I don’t really buy it. Jews seem to want a place to flee to, and Zios and diaspora types both seem happy with the arrangement of having a foot in another land with Israel as well. It works well for Jews, but is a disaster for the hosts. They deserve all the sorrows that come their way.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  72. @OilcanFloyd

    As much as 10m people of 3oom at 0AD, and 15m of 7bn at 2000AD are a minor consideration, our inhumanity shows most when we consider the minority.

    Jews have inhabited a removed, different place from humanity for almost two millennia – one stripped of the confidence of sovereign land, whilst maintaining a strong social bond.. their cohesion is worth complementing, even if their negative attitudes towards their landed ‘masters’ is worth criticism.

    That their faith now swings towards acquiescing to the need for a sovereign space, is progress – for such a metaphysically inclined nation especially.. too bad they do this in 2000AD when the planet is discovered and full, and not 1000AD, but that is just an extra complication. Israel, as envisaged by Herzl, is not that space of freedom – it is a colonial enterprise, and so ephemeral.. but the process has begun – the mind of Orthodox Judaism denied a state based on metaphysical grounds, now shifts to a Zionist mind of accepting the need for the security of land.

    This is a good process – one that in the long run removes Jews from the Gentile nations, to a place they can govern themselves, but the reflexive fear/hate of others that exile has brought the ethnicity for almost two millenia will need to be exorcised whilst, and even they find a home.

    I say that Muslim ‘terrorism’ – as most strong, social hate – will take two-three generations to die out when the Western invaders leave, how much more so for Jewish fear/hate when they truly get an independent state without neighbours that hate them?

    Imo Jewish statehood, given the need to affect its belief system, will take some centuries to truly come into balance. For now they are a hungry animal that has found their first food in a long time – hungry, weary, not accomodating to any outside opinion. I don’t agree that Palestine is the right place for them to feast on their land – it is taken already, but their wealth could still sway the equation if they changed and truly became that ‘light unto the nations’ they make themselves believe they have always been..

    I don’t disagree with Hitler’s assessment that Judaism searches for a sovereign land to hide its iniquities, but I would say that this is a temporary phenomenon – a people without a home look for a hideout.. but when they are confident the hideout is their home, well, the equation begins to change. Zionism has diverged from Orthodox Judaism, and now the necessary change is away from the Talmudic (Orthodox, and Exile) Judaism, towards a new, sovereign Judaism, within the concord of modern nations.. it will take time, and I see why it may be said that for 15m people it is not worth it – but I am not a nihilist!

    That Judaism still infects the US, and other Western nations, well, that is because they are not truly sovereign! Zionists need to come to a directly democratic agreement with a nation for some chunk of land (they have the money for it at the least), and advance from there.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @OilcanFloyd
  73. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Oh please!!! Did Blair throw out any pro Palestinians from the party…’

    I was under the impression that we were discussing Corbyn, not Blair.

    Your post fails to offer a single piece of evidence in support of your contention that Corbyn is anti-semitic.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  74. @Fran Taubman

    Fran: ‘… No you are correct you do not have to be a Jew hater to criticize Israel but it sure the fuck is not a crazy theory when you observe the 2019 Labour Party…’

    Fran: ‘… I am not saying they were anti semitic…’

    So the Labour Party were Jew haters but they were not anti-semitic. Have I got that right?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  75. @Fran Taubman

    ‘There is a difference between criticism of Israel and saying Israel does not have the right to exist.’

    But neither position demonstrates that the one holding it is anti-semitic.

    I could have been for the unconditional defeat of Nazi Germany; that wouldn’t have demonstrated that I was bigoted against Germans. The USSR was utterly repugnant; it’s my opinion that it would have been been better if the Whites had prevailed in the Russian Civil War. Does that demonstrate that I hate Russians?

    Israel is an utterly indefensible, repugnant, vicious entity that manages to create misery for an enormous swathe of mankind in exchange for less than nothing — its Jews would contribute more and cost less if they were elsewhere. I unhesitatingly and without qualification support its complete elimination.

    That’s got nothing to do with my feelings about Jews. The state could be inhabited by Buddhists and I would feel the same about it.

  76. @Ilya G Poimandres

    ‘Jews have inhabited a removed, different place from humanity for almost two millennia – one stripped of the confidence of sovereign land, whilst maintaining a strong social bond..’

    That’s hardly unique: Mormons, Gypsies, and the Amish all immediately come to mind.

    There are also innumerable peoples lacking a sovereign state: at random, I can think of Crimean Tatars, the Basques, the Kurds, the Uighurs, the Meo, Cherokees, Scotsmen, and Lapps. Apologies to the no-doubt hundreds of groups I have omitted.

    There is little remarkable about the condition of the Jews.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  77. @Ilya G Poimandres

    As much as 10m people of 3oom at 0AD, and 15m of 7bn at 2000AD are a minor consideration, our inhumanity shows most when we consider the minority.

    Not when a minority is trying to destroy the host.

    Can you give me a reason why a host should tolerate a hateful and destructive minority? I can’t think of a reason to do so.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  78. @Colin Wright

    No Jew haters is my word for anti-semitic it means the same.
    It does not matter. Gilad is wrong most people in Britain are not interested in the Zionist or the Palestinians. It is not front and center in their lives, and get annoyed when people make it the big election issue like it became.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  79. @Colin Wright

    Colin you are so dense. There is no line here with regards to anti semitism and Corbyn. It is not black and white.

    It is all about your world view. I do not think Corbyn hates Jews. He hated Israel and for some not all that is the same as hating Jews. There is legitimate confusion out there because some people do just hate Jews.

    There was an element in the Labour party that made the Israeli-Palestinian conflict front and center of the election issue. These people started dividing British Jews according to their loyalty to Israel. Like if you are a Zionist you are part of the Jewish lobby and power structure and are racist because Zionist are racist. People rejected this assault and thought it could be antisemitic. Gilad made it the central theme of the entire election, to the point he was banned from the party, and he has no problem being called an antisemite he takes real pride in it.

    The British people wondered why Labour had this obsession with Israel and Zionist while more pressing issues like education and health care were being ignored in favor of Zionism The ME Palestinian Israeli issue is not on most peoples radar. So why the obsession? People often view obsessions with Zionist over more obvious problems as a symbol of Jew hatred (antisemitism). Like all obsessions the Zionist one is unhealthy.

    In the end it was all rejected not because they thought that Corbyn was an antisemite but because they did not like the politics of making Jews or Zionism a political identity issue. By most people I mean most non Jews. They view it as Jew baiting. In the end people thought Gilad and Corbyn were unattractive.

    You know Colin it is a complicated issue. Why don’t you read about it.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  80. @Fran Taubman

    He was campaigning to be Prime Minister of Britain, not Prime Minister of Israel. It shouldn’t matter even slightly what his views about Israel are. The only reason anyone think such views matter is because of “non-existent” Jewish influence on the country’s politics.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Brás Cubas
  81. @Fran Taubman

    ‘No Jew haters is my word for anti-semitic it means the same.
    It does not matter. Gilad is wrong most people in Britain are not interested in the Zionist or the Palestinians. It is not front and center in their lives, and get annoyed when people make it the big election issue like it became.’

    You realize you’re not making any sense?

    First you say Labour was full of Jew haters. Then you deny saying Labour was anti-semitic. Then you say by ‘Jew haters’ you mean anti-semites.

    Not happy with that, you then attribute the outcome of the election to people getting annoyed with those who made this an election issue. It was the Jews that made it an election issue; Palestine has never been more than a minor concern to either Corbyn or the bulk of his supporters.

    Yet Corbyn lost; apparently because those who would have opposed him got annoyed.

  82. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Colin you are so dense…’

    !

  83. @silviosilver

    He was campaigning to be Prime Minister of Britain, not Prime Minister of Israel.

    Agreed but the left has a bug up its ass about Israel. A loyalty test. Unless you think Zionist are :

    A: Controlling the country in a sub rosa way (evil plotting Jewish power)
    B. All Zionist Zios are racist and any Jew who is a Zionist is a racist.

    It is the left that foot that Corbyn was not running to PM of Israel, they were the ones that but the dog and pony show. Livingston et al. People like George Calloway. A huge swath of the left insist on making Jews, Zionist and the Jewish lobby the cause celeb. Just ask Gilad.

  84. @Colin Wright

    ‘Colin you are so dense…’

    You are out of your mind as well. My points are clear as day.

    First you say Labour was full of Jew haters. Then you deny saying Labour was anti-semitic. Then you say by ‘Jew haters’ you mean anti-semites.

    No I said people could confuse Labours anti Zionist view points with being antisemitism.

    It was the Jews that made it an election issue; Palestine has never been more than a minor concern to either Corbyn or the bulk of his supporters.

    No it was the Leftist Labour that made Zionism the election issue not the Jews. Get it?
    The left made it a litmus test. You are correct did not matter to most. But the left makes anti Israel views a big deal.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  85. @Colin Wright

    Don’t reply any more I feel like you are just goofing with me. These are not legitimate response, they are designed to just keep you fishing.
    I am done with this.

  86. @Fran Taubman

    ‘First you say Labour was full of Jew haters. Then you deny saying Labour was anti-semitic. Then you say by ‘Jew haters’ you mean anti-semites.

    …No I said people could confuse Labours anti Zionist view points with being antisemitism…’

    No, Fran. I did not paraphrase your words. I quoted exactly what you wrote. Go back and look.

    …you know, you are just digging yourself in deeper.

  87. @OilcanFloyd

    My comment towards Boris were actually focused on getting Europe’s or rather England’s refugee immigration out. Not only aren’t ours going, all their relatives and more, are coming. The United States is done. One of the writers here did a piece, predicted the politics of Georgia, the Carolinas are terminal this year, guaranteed Blue, with Texas likely terminal by 22, 24 latest. At that point, the U.S. is terminal Democrat for all time. Nuclear winter for Republicans. The end. Over. Forever.

    I’m under no illusions about my own country. Trump, Obama, W, Bill, H.W., Reagan. makes no difference, none. They all sold us out. Only the Carnival Bark varies, never the result.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @OilcanFloyd
  88. Atzmon bemoans the fact that his ideology is defeated. I could not care less about specific ideologies, and would give my vote and more to a credible movement that would clean out the stables and restore the demographics, culture, and nation.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  89. @silviosilver

    He was campaigning to be Prime Minister of Britain, not Prime Minister of Israel.

    What about Corbyn? Was he campaigning to be Prime Minister of the United Third World Nation?

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  90. @Ilya G Poimandres

    ‘Corbyn failed instantly when he made the slogan ‘for the many, not the few’. This is not a socialist world view…’

    Yeah — but defined that way, socialism is a doomed doctrine.

    The thing is, no one actually wants to be in the working class. You don’t get anywhere telling people life in the working class can be made better; you get somewhere convincing them you’re offering a way out.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  91. @OilcanFloyd

    You ARE delusional…Culture and nation? Are you high? Not for nothin’ I ask…

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  92. @Jim Christian

    ‘…My comment towards Boris were actually focused on getting Europe’s or rather England’s refugee immigration out. Not only aren’t ours going, all their relatives and more, are coming. The United States is done. One of the writers here did a piece, predicted the politics of Georgia, the Carolinas are terminal this year, guaranteed Blue, with Texas likely terminal by 22, 24 latest. At that point, the U.S. is terminal Democrat for all time. Nuclear winter for Republicans. The end. Over. Forever…’

    I think this overlooks something.

    The only ethnic groups that stay Democratic are blacks and Jews — neither one of whom is coming in to any great extent.

    Over time, Mexicans et al turn into more white people — and conservative ones at that. Moreover, worsening social conditions will only increase that effect, as Hispanics who are already here respond to the decay by becoming more conservative, and fewer Hispanics come.

    I object to immigration for other reasons — but the great brown tide isn’t going to permanently turn the country blue. Mexicans are not nature’s Hillary voters.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  93. I object to immigration for other reasons — but the great brown tide isn’t going to permanently turn the country blue. Mexicans are not nature’s Hillary voters.

    Disagree. The Tide of Colors are expressly Democrat. That’s why they were allowed in and are so furiously pushed and supported by, well, DEMOCRATS. Trust me, if the folks coming in were Republican, even as much as the Cubans who came here in the Eighties, the Democrats would have demanded a wall-to-wall Wall. In the interest of National Security, of course, not for politics. There’s nothing Republican pandering has ever done to change the facts on the ground and that isn’t going to change until such time as all the minorities get tired of being discriminated against themselves, think Chinese and Korean Asians. Still, they’ll be Democrats. See the mess in Harvard. Asians don’t like their test scores thrown out and went to court. But they’re Democrats through-and-through.

    Aside from the Mexicans and whatnot, all the imports from India and Asia flooding the country with their relatives, they’re all Democrat. And they’re all over the country. One example, one of the banks is moving from San Fran to Dallas/Fort Worth, forget which one. They’re bringing 20,000 employees with them. Northern Virginia wound up with most of the Defense Contractors that were HQd in California. They and their good folk turned Virginia Blue and now own the Statehouse and are drafting regs forcing the rurals to give up their weapons on the basis of red flags and too-high capacity magazines. EZ Concealed Carry is going by the wayside, too. These Democrats insist they’ll send the National Guard and fire any Police Chiefs or officers that don’t enforce the new statutes. It is here that survivalists will get a taste for how useless their AR15s are. Resist, they’ll send drones. Oh, and rest assured they’ll not send The Guard to any of the Richmond, Alexandria and Arlington Ghettos, however. Blacks and Hispanics get to keep their guns, they always do. It’s the Democrat Way.

    This is the Democratic Party, full force. And sooner or later, everyone gets a taste. You see, this is the tyranny that’s well on the way. They got speech first. Others before. The Second is about to be severely tested. citizens down there swear they’re gonna fight. Gonna be interesting.

  94. @Jim Christian

    I’m under no illusions about my own country. Trump, Obama, W, Bill, H.W., Reagan. makes no difference, none. They all sold us out. Only the Carnival Bark varies, never the result.

    I live in Georgia, so I know what has happened here. I consider the system to be broken beyond repair, and just about the whole political class to be traitors.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  95. @Jim Christian

    You ARE delusional…Culture and nation? Are you high? Not for nothin’ I ask…

    Delusional for stating what I would want and support? I would be delusional if I believed that change would come through the current system, but the fact is that neither one of us knows what will happen in the future.

    Kicking out immigrants, their relatives, and descendants, is less radical that allowing them in to destroy the nation.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  96. @Colin Wright

    Over time, Mexicans et al turn into more white people — and conservative ones at that. Moreover, worsening social conditions will only increase that effect, as Hispanics who are already here respond to the decay by becoming more conservative, and fewer Hispanics come.

    I don’t find any of that to be true. If that were true, the invasion would have stopped in in the border states, and there would be no rising blue tide in areas where demographics have changed. How do you expect immigrants to conserve a nation that they are helping to destroy? If they were conservative by nature, they would have stayed home in the first place.

    • Agree: Jim Christian
  97. Well said Mr. Atzmon, I mostly agree. I don’t keep up with Brit politics much, I listen/read George Galloway sometimes. From what I know I think Corbyn would have been the much better choice. Just for his positions on Palestine and war. I think he messed up letting the Israel lobby and their media goons bully him, giving in to their BS, not fighting back. Sanders also has this problem sometimes. He should have honored the first Brexit vote as well, though I don’t know what he knows. I’m sure its more complex than most realize.

    This is the main reason Trump won. I think most people loved the way he fought back against the media, called them out for their BS and lies. Everyone is fed the fuck up with the system, the govt, their owners, the financial system, the media. Michael Moore said if Trump won it would be the biggest “fuck you” ever, and thats exactly what it was. We now know Trump was just full of shit, but he knew what people wanted to hear. Trump and Clinton were both unpopular as hell, more people stayed home than voted for either one of them. Tulsi Gabbard is much better than Sanders as far as having a spine, she fights back, calls them out on the BS. Sanders seems to be getting a little better, but he still needs to grow a pair if he wants to win.

    Would it make a difference? I don’t think either would be as bad as Trump, Pastor Pence and the pack of Neocons and Jewish supremacists that he has appointed. Sanders at least recognizes that the Palestinians should be treated like humans. Has said he would work to cut the welfare we give “Israel” to improve the Pals situation. He has also given support for dropping charges against Assange, Manning and Snowden. He is against the Patriot Act. He supports single payer healthcare, ending the drug war, legalizing cannabis. Tulsi is pretty much the same. Will any of it get done? Who knows. I think it would be a step in the right direction though.

    I honestly don’t think Brexit would make much a difference anyhow, I suspect most of the same interests will still be calling the shots as far as economics and immigration. I doubt much would change for the better either way. Fox news seems to be promoting it here in the US, as well as Steve Bannon, so I would be very suspicious of what “Brexit” actually means to the ones in power.

    From what I understand about Brexit, it sounds like the right is just using it to hold onto power. Fear mongering about scary immigrants and muslims like Trump does to get people to vote for them. I doubt they have any intention to actually do anything about the immigration or scary muslims once in power though. But it works. Divide and rule. Blame the muslims, immigrants, anyone except for the capitalists that brought them there. Take your anger out on the scary muslims instead of the Israelis who drove them out of their homeland and into yours. Blame the muslims instead of the war profiteers who bombed their homeland to smithereens. It works. I’m sure the terrorist attacks are as fake as the ones here. Just your intelligence services and spook media doing what they do best. Operation Gladio 2.0

    Its depressing sometimes. The Brits will soon regret it if they get to experience our wonderful racket of a “healthcare system” No doubt about that. By the way folks, “illegals” already get “free” medical care, so letting politicians use this excuse as a reason you should have to deal with this racket system is a fucking lame cop out. Don’t be fooled. The GOP seems to be running on this “deport the Mexicans” platform. Well, I can tell you being from the very red state of Georgia, the GOP has no intention of deporting “illegals” All the construction sites around here are still packed with them. No different that 3 years ago. Its all BS.

    • Agree: Jim Christian
  98. @OilcanFloyd

    Delusional for stating what I would want and support? I would be delusional if I believed that change would come through the current system, but the fact is that neither one of us knows what will happen in the future. Kicking out immigrants, their relatives, and descendants, is less radical that allowing them in to destroy the nation.

    Look, I get it. I was raised in (formerly) sleepy little Fairfax County, circa 1957. Fast forward 52 years I left because it had become DisneyWorld for Indians, Chinese and Hispanics to the horizon. The streets and stores and everything about the place started to scream Third World everywhere but the Malls and the gated communities all over, all sucking the Federal Teat. It was good to leave, it’s a horrid place to earn a living today, the atmosphere, the traffic, it’s all horribly Third World.. Bill Clinton’s days were the best ever and the beginning of the end. Your only option is to move when your area becomes untenable. That after all, is why suburbs were built. I had to go further. 600 miles. North. You’d be surprised how conservative it is in the hinterlands. Nice communities, lots of guns, all, or nearly White, upper 90’s%.

    That said, you aren’t kicking out anyone, and to top it off they’re bringing in all their little old relatives. It’s nice to want a country, but you can’t have this one. It’s been given over, the Blue cities, the shit parts, that’s why I don’t care if they burn and rot, I ain’t there. If you are, better get out because bad elements are coming for you. Home invasions are becoming a thing. Our fathers, The Greatest Generation, gave it over. Change in the future can only be for the worse. They own the monopoly on violence. It is now owned by Others.

    They’re so strong, we so weak, they don’t even bother imprisoning us for discussing the ruinous path they’ve set. They could not care less. Ron Unz is a dangerous test for free speech, for freedom of association, there are hundreds of ramifications legal and not should the Deep State cut off such discussion. Unz.com is a test bed. They could squash it if they wanted and a hundred others. I dunno how Ron walks with balls like that. And all his fellows, Sailer, Martyanov, PCR, this here Gatzie, all would go off to the gulag in other times or maybe if these times grow worse, all of us too, for criticizing it all. Don’t think it couldn’t happen, just hasn’t quite yet. Hell, I’d be proud to go off to the Gulag right along with em.

    As long as Sailer keeps his hands to himself.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  99. @Jim Christian

    I moved 10 years ago to the sort of place you mention, and it is obviously going to rot in the fairly near future. I recently moved my parents from their home of 40 years because it had become unsafe in just over a decade, and it’s getting hard to find decent places to go.

    I know it sounds paranoid, but I agree that Unz is more than just a website. For all I know, the sole purpose is to gather names and information.

    As for the future, who knows? History is full of surprises, and the current situation can’t last.

  100. @Colin Wright

    The thing is, no one actually wants to be in the working class. You don’t get anywhere telling people life in the working class can be made better; you get somewhere convincing them you’re offering a way out.

    Lots of people like doing physical labor and building things, and few expect to become wealthy in the process. There’s nothing wrong in that, and any healthy society needs different classes that work together and profit together. That isn’t happening now.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  101. @OilcanFloyd

    I live in Georgia, so I know what has happened here.

    Ever read Kersey’s book on Atlanta? If you want the blow-by-blow history of the ruin of Atlanta post General Sherman and Sheridan, he gives the full history detailing in full the ruin of the suburbs that were destroyed by those who resented folks who just wanted to live in peace.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  102. @OilcanFloyd

    It shouldn’t tolerate the hate, it should point it out, and guard against it. Imo now that the world’s people have all the information in front of them, Judaism has little hope to keep its view of the other nations the way it is, without at some point suffering a true holocaust.. Gentiles were at the point of acceptance a few decades ago, now we are at separation (BDS), it is not long after that we will get conflict. I don’t disagree that all of our elites, European descent, or Jewish descent, are lost causes, but I think the common folk are much more open to seeing the other side. Of course, there is that fact that no Jew considers themselves common, but hey – the Zionists went against the metaphysical demand that Jews not create a sovereign space until the end times, so Jews can go against the metaphysical belief that they are chosen too. Just a matter if they are willing to see that it is psychologically damaging to them!

  103. @OilcanFloyd

    ‘Lots of people like doing physical labor and building things, and few expect to become wealthy in the process. There’s nothing wrong in that, and any healthy society needs different classes that work together and profit together. That isn’t happening now.’

    Lol. Don’t take this the wrong way; I actually think your idea has a lot of merit.

    It’s just that the Nazis did as well; you just recited a good deal of the movement’s ideology.

    Otherwise, however, you’re right. I keep finding myself building another raised bed or wiring a new outlet for the bathroom instead of actually working out the answer to some piece of legal or medical or financial bafflegarb or pursuing some arcane dispute over the same.

    However, I suspect that’s largely because building the raised beds are my choice, and it only goes on until I get bored. It’d be a different matter if you’d told me at twenty that I was going to spend the next forty five years of my life building raised beds over, and over, and…

    Herein lies socialism’s problem. No one wants to hear this; even if you tell them you’ll raise their pay and let them share in the profits. They want to be told that they, too, can be a brain doctor and have a massive yacht.

  104. @Colin Wright

    A lot of those you mention live in their historical lands, just without sovereignty, although often with some level of autonomy.. that is splitting hairs of course. And anyways, I agree with Bakunin and Chapter 1 Article 1 paragraph 2 of the United Nations – let peoples self determine, for better or for worse..

    Really, only the Gipsies would find it hard to self determine in your list, as they are not in their historical lands (lots of migration in SE Asia in the last millennium though, so yes – many more examples). So perhaps it would be fairer to divide those nations that want sovereignty that are in their historical lands, and those that are not.

    In the end though, my point is if the nation of Israel wants some sovereign land, get it directly democratically by asking another peoples for some, and paying for it. That would not be theft. They’ve up and moved enough times of their own free will, and they have the financial resources to do so again now. The mantra is ‘we want security, we want peace’ – how is breaking one of your own ten commandments as a whole nation going to bring you that?!

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  105. @Colin Wright

    Herein lies socialism’s problem. No one wants to hear this; even if you tell them you’ll raise their pay and let them share in the profits. They want to be told that they, too, can be a brain doctor and have a massive yacht.

    That is communism’s problem.

    Socialism deals (or should deal anyways), with the economy of needs: food, clothing, housing, bills, health, education, defence (ye olde classic). This is ~40% of GDP in OECD countries, much lower when the general purpose robot takes over.

    Everything else – including the yacht, should be left to a free market regulated away from force and deceit. Once needs are provided – why gender equality laws at work, why hiring/firing laws, why minimum wage? Needs are provided. And humans will always have wants above needs, even if some choose to subsist on rations (Iran’s 28% of median income UBI points the way that this number is likely very low).

    The economic problem is twofold: unlimited wants, limited resources (capitalism); limited wants, limited resources (socialism). The modern confusion is to throw free market policies into the socialist economy (means tested welfare is competitive, capitalistic), and throw socialist policies into the free market economy (labour fairness laws). There should be a grand bargain between the two sides.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  106. @Ilya G Poimandres

    ‘..And anyways, I agree with Bakunin and Chapter 1 Article 1 paragraph 2 of the United Nations – let peoples self determine, for better or for worse…’

    Whoops. The ‘agree’ was inadvertent.

    Actually, I see the position you advocate as something of a poisoned chalice. The problem is that there are a virtual infinity of definable ‘peoples.’ Britain, for example, is small enough to be begin with; but it alone contains Englishmen, Welshmen, Lowland Scots, Highland Scots, Manxmen, Ulstermen, Catholic Irishmen, the inhabitants of the Shetland Islands…

    Here in the United States, we still have the remnants of dozens of Indian tribes. There are Mormons. Southerners feel themselves to be quite distinct…

    Where does it end? It’s not just Catalans and Kurds. How many peoples are there in Siberia who could reasonably take it into their heads to desire sovereignty?

    Aside from the endless multiplicity and bickering, one problem I almost necessarily see arising is that the smaller and the more numerous such national units get, the more the need for such supranational organizations as the European Union. So in the end, have you gotten anywhere at all? Doesn’t your national sovereignty simply become less significant the more you bestow it on? Let’s take it to the logical extreme: if we’re each a nation of one, what does our ‘independence’ amount to?

  107. @Ilya G Poimandres

    ‘…And anyways, I agree with Bakunin and Chapter 1 Article 1 paragraph 2 of the United Nations – let peoples self determine, for better or for worse…’

    Another problem I see with this position is that while the various ‘peoples’ live in definable areas, they are rarely the sole inhabitants of those areas.

    The more stable nation states were almost literally created by a process of indoctrination extending over several generations — or more. Spaniards, Greeks, etc were made, not born. See From Peasants into Frenchmen for a description of just how invented a sense of common nationality in a given area can be.

    Otherwise, as a result of the untidiness of how these peoples are distributed, the process of creating homogeneous nation states can be bloody — sometimes very bloody. As many as a million people may have died in the course of Indian partition. The Greco-Turkish war ended with the forcible expulsion of a total of two million ‘Greeks’ living in what was to be Turkey and ‘Turks’ living in what was to be Greece.

    My barber served with the US forces in Syria. Our sainted, deserving Kurdish allies were really something. Naturally, the areas they wished to claim contain a lot of Arabs as well as Kurds. Well, guess what starts happening?

    Even Germany and France have taken turns cleaning out first the determined Frenchmen when Alsace and Lorraine were German, then the determined Germans when they became French again, then reversing all that in 1940-1944, then reversing it yet again after 1944.

    …and things still aren’t tidy.

    Of course, kill and expel enough people, and they will become tidy. There are very few Germans living in the Czech Republic these days.

    But is all this actually a good? Because the more ‘nations’ you recognize, the more it will have to happen.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  108. @Colin Wright

    Lol. Don’t take this the wrong way; I actually think your idea has a lot of merit.

    How could I take any statement that begins with “Lol” the wrong way?

    I’m not sure what acknowledging that the working classes are needed and not the suicidal idiots that many insist they should be has to do with any political ideology or economic system. I didn’t mention ideologies, and only skirted economics by stating the fact that everyone isn’t profiting together at the moment, and that extends well beyond the blue collar workforce. I know of senior scientists and engineers who will make a fraction over their careers of what their company’s CEO made last year, and that was a bad year for the company which was directly related to poor decisions at the top.

    I guess the economic argument against my statement would be that some people should have little say in their lot, and that they are rightly viewed as expendable. That makes for a hell of a society.

    As for the rest, I’ve never known anyone who started out at twenty and did the same thing for the rest of his career. That doesn’t happen to anyone, except maybe the mentally retarded, and even their physical workload is reduced as their bodies age.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  109. @Jim Christian

    I grew up in the Atlanta suburbs and watched them turn from pleasant places to overcrowded dumps very quickly. My parents were just the sort of people who just wanted to live in peace. I know all about the situation.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  110. @OilcanFloyd

    ‘…How could I take any statement that begins with “Lol” the wrong way?’

    It was just the coincidental (I assume) echo of Nazi doctrine.

    You know, those mind-control aliens who inexplicably seized control of seventy million German brains and set about making it always winter and never Christmas.

    They actually had some pretty interesting ideas — kinda like yours.

    It would follow that you’re a bad person as well.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  111. @Ilya G Poimandres

    ‘That is communism’s problem.

    Socialism deals (or should deal anyways), with the economy of needs: food, clothing, housing, bills, health, education, defence (ye olde classic). This is ~40% of GDP in OECD countries, much lower when the general purpose robot takes over.’

    Now we’re just arguing about semantics. What you’re advocating is a reasonable description of Donald Trump’s America — not what ‘socialism’ conjures up in my mind.

    Technically, a ‘socialist’ state is one in which the state owns the means of production. That describes Brezhnev’s Russia, or Castro’s Cuba. It doesn’t describe any first-world state currently existing.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  112. @OilcanFloyd

    Deadmalls.com tells the story about Atlanta, too. Except the guys that put that site together, aside from mentioning ‘crime’ (the Black undertow) drove people with money away (White folks), causing malls to die. All over the place.

    Blacks kill malls.

  113. @Colin Wright

    Lots of people like doing physical labor and building things, and few expect to become wealthy in the process. There’s nothing wrong in that, and any healthy society needs different classes that work together and profit together. That isn’t happening now.

    That statement makes me a Nazi and a bad person? That’s interesting.

  114. ‘That statement makes me a Nazi and a bad person? That’s interesting.’

    It’s a joke, son. Lighten up.

    • Agree: Jim Christian
  115. The “Left” got hijacked by (((communists))). It’s the “Right”-wing (((ZIONISTS))) that FINANCE the “Left”-wing (((Communists))). Every major institution in the West has been hijacked by FAKE “Jews”

    1) ‘Jew’ Coup: Seditious Jews Orchestrating Trump Impeachment Lynching
    https://www.trunews.com/stream/jew-coup-seditious-jews-orchestrating-trump-impeachment-lynching

    2) Charting The ‘Jew’ York Times’ Narrative, Part Three [Updated]
    http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=60284

    Read the COMMENTS. (Hint: tRuTh_Be_ToLd!)

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  116. “The shift in our human landscape has created a desperate need for a new ethos: a fresh stand point that will reinstate the Western Athenian ethical and universal roots and produce a new canon that aspires for truth and truthfulness as opposed to the current cancerous tyranny of correctness.”

    Ah Gilad, you are a great-souled man, a righteous man, very brave, a clean thinker. But there’s still a little bit of bad faith hiding away in your analysis. You are so close – yet so far.

    You won’t rest from your wandering until you accept that human beings are largely what their genes make them, and that peoples are largely what their genes make them. Culture (including everything that arises from the discourse around class) is downstream from biology, we are first of all biological beings who only secondarily weave around ourselves cultural shells that suit us.

    You hanker for a certain ethos, but you can’t have that ethos, it’s not even going to be there available to dip into, unless the people who created that ethos have the power to create it, and that power has been taken away from them because they’ve been hacked by your people’s ruling class, who are now the world’s ruling class.

    All human beings are rough and ready to some extent, but relatively speaking, Europeans and European-derived peoples are among the gentlest, most curious, most open, most empathic, and most prone to glue themselves together socially by forming moral communities. But our tendency to altruistic punishment has been turned against us. You have made us hate ourselves, and for that, once the depth of the horror of what you’ve done to us has been revealed, I don’t think you’ll ever really be forgiven – at least not for a long, long time.

    In the long perspective, it’s all been a glorious struggle between two powerful peoples with two entirely different modes of being – predatory and parasitic. We almost had you in the 19th century, you were almost assimilated into our liberal Borg, but your Zionists prevented put a stop to it, and in their ascendancy they’ve virtually jewed the whole world; but now the tables are starting to turn again.

    There is definitely a way we can all get along – but the principle has to be respected (which the early Zionists saw correctly, in their own way) that the broad genetic clusters and sub-species that form humanity need their respective homes, where they can develop in their own way. NAXALT goes without saying, but on the whole you are bad for us, and we aren’t good for you either. Best to agree to disagree and live at a respectful distance, exchanging but never mixing, ever again.

    If there’s ever an alien invasion, that Other will call forth unity between us, and between all our sub-species; but until then – 110 and never again.

  117. @Colin Wright

    Freedom to self determine would be a different formula for the world if it were followed. It would be a world where the citizenry, not the elite drew borders, as happens now. It wouldn’t be perfect still imo, no system is. I don’t agree all peoples would look for homogenous nations to live in, and there certainly would be a re-balancing, which would have its issues and likely violence – but more than we have now through borders as defined by representatives?

    How far would everyone split? There is nominal sovereignty and there is practical sovereignty as you say.. Russia is practically sovereign as it can happily exist within autarky. Singapore can’t. If London went its own way, that may let it set its own laws (and the Liberals I know certainly want this these days!), but they would then have a food supply more dependent on other nations.

    India or Turkey, by the time they were splitting, there was already animosity, if not the national separation and population swaps, there would have been civil war and insurgency. Would it have been less violent or more violent? There would have been the choice of suppression if staying together or the same separation, just after more internal discord.

    And if separation were not imposed from above, but asked from below, in a world where such a process were accepted, would the people be as animous towards each other.. I’m guessing yes, but maybe they would have chosen to start the process at an earlier time, before the animosity reached higher levels.. same as how if there was access to direct democracy for the UK, the Brexit referendum would have happened a decade ago+, and the result may have gone the other way. Of course there could have been another vote as it happened with us, but giving people the responsibility to make decisions makes them responsible, so I doubt we’d be as close to civil war as we are now!

    I think the people would make such decisions quicker and more effectively than their representatives. Compare Crimea and Donbass – both citizenries voted for independence, but only one was given backing by any representatives (Russia for Crimea, again for selfish strategic reasons).. Crimea is happy, Donbass is being suppressed within the entity formerly known as Ukraine. What if the elites lived in a system where their voices were not accepted in this debate?

    This is just allowing for a more non-violent separation in case of disagreement, and a path to agreement and merger through something other than violent conquest (does that even get agreement?!). How to allow peoples to make that decision without needing the backing of certain national elites? Establishing semi direct democracy around the world, instead of our current fawning over plastic surgery democracy, imo.

    As for ethnic cleansing and genocide, nations that engage in such practices – are they more unpopular with elites, or the citizenry? If the citizenry had more say about their nations’ interactions with such states – they would be harsher to such actions. Certainly BDS for genociders and ethnic cleansers would lead to practical policy faster than if friends of Friends of Israel and the like made the laws. If the Kurds really did ethnically cleanse all the Arabs and then ‘self’ determine, in a semi-directly democratic world, they would find it much harder to sell their nation to the rest of the world, and so might think about finding a less violent way to get what they want.

    And this is ignoring the possibility that some nations would choose to merge with other nations. Really it would open up national systems to more competition – if a nation has a particularly effective system, or intriguing ideology, other nations may wish to join. Would the people of the Muslim world retain their nations or would they choose to amalgamate into an Ummah (or three)?

    To me this is a corollary of the debate on individual migration – one representative side says ‘many’, the other says ‘few’, but the fair answer is – give the question to the people and let them vote on it directly democratically. Because people should have a direct right to choose who they live with.

  118. @Colin Wright

    It’s a joke, son. Lighten up.

    True Dat, Colon. Here, we can be anything we want. Everyone is so sensitive about Nazi stuff, Nazis and Russians are coming out of the light fixtures to alter our politics. I propose the tagline,

    “Thanks for sharing your day with unz.com, where you too can be Hitler for a day!”.

    Kinda bright, kinda cheery, no? And yes, you have to bring a sense of humor with you when you come here.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  119. @Colin Wright

    Now we’re just arguing about semantics.

    I don’t think so. You can have a socialist provision of needs with a minimal bureaucracy. This is not what 20th century socialism has meant.

    State ownership of means of production – even if just for the 40% of GDP that encompasses needs – implies monopoly.

    State regulation of those means of production into perfectly competitive markets (like the Swiss with their health insurance market), is the exact opposite.

    Given the right is anti-monopolistic, yes, such an economy would be more in line with the classical right (not sure Trump is anti-monopoly though!).

    Redistributing that production through flat taxes and targeted UBIs is however more the old socialist ideal of ‘from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs’ than progressive taxation and means tested welfare.. a slogan for which I can’t think of, but it would be something along the lines of ‘from some according to their ability, to some according to their needs’ – not much of anyone’s ideology really!

  120. @tRuTh_Be_ToLd

    Easy, tR, you’re gonna snap a vasectomy clip there.

    Your mood just outran your meds. That’s such a uniquely feminist thing, too. Sorta like this one here:

  121. @Colin Wright

    My reply showed surprise, not anger, which is apparently as difficult to detect as some humor.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  122. @OilcanFloyd

    My reply showed surprise, not anger, which is apparently as difficult to detect as some humor.

    And here I thought you hurt me just because you could. Ya have to escape your demons as they emerges..

  123. Now you are starting to piss me off.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  124. @Jim Christian

    ‘….“Thanks for sharing your day with unz.com, where you too can be Hitler for a day!”.

    Kinda bright, kinda cheery, no? And yes, you have to bring a sense of humor with you when you come here.’

    Works for me. It’d be interesting to see the reaction.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  125. @OilcanFloyd

    Just drillin’ for the nerve, Floyd, just drillin’ for the nerve..

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  126. @Colin Wright

    Works for me. It’d be interesting to see the reaction.

    Well, they’ll track you down like a dog. Look, Colin, if interesting is what you want, interesting is just what you’re gonna get. Ain’t gonna be pleasant, though. We’ll know it’s on if guys like Martyanov disappear from these pages. Giraldi, Gatzie here or the site altogether. Ron Unz is descended from honest-to-God Blue Blood Ukrainian Jews, headed to Israel back in the startup days. He came up from nothing, Ron isn’t supposed to be giving The Notice Movement a billboard. He should have been “Cancelled” Doxed, whatever, long ago. Instead, being a graduate, he tried to have a say for the little people, he lobbied for free tuition at Harvard since it’s a mere 4% of their income from the tens of billions in their ‘dowry”, while being a crushing debt for many of it’s students and parents. Pretty bold this day and age. Ever read his Wiki? Pretty deep resume. Dunno what happened to the tuition issue at Harvard, but in the meantime, the Asians who are discriminated against want their day in court..
    Strange days..

  127. @WorkingClass

    Sorry I was not clear. What I’m trying to say is that the people who are adamant about third world immigration are either not working class or are not aware that they are working class. In either case they are not the left.

    Who are you to say they are not the left? The left in the US/EU wants to flood the first world with third world immigrants. They have wanted to do this since the 60s.

    Why do you have authority over what it means to be left? Especially when you are in a minority?

    The international left bought into the idea that Whitey is really the problem and thus White countries need to be remade with third world immigrants.

    It’s unfortunate that Americans say left and right when what they mean is Democrat and Republican. It leads to utter confusion in discussions such as this one.

    I’m not talking about Democrats and Republicans. The left in the Western world has been pro-immigration.

    If you want to start a new worker’s party then by all means do it. But you can’t just declare yourself to be the “true left” when the international left is united against your position. They are openly pro-immigration to Western countries without regard to wages. I can cite numerous international socialist organizations defending this position. They don’t care about immigration lowering workers wages in countries like the US or UK because they view those countries as the enemy.

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