The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewGilad Atzmon Archive
When Islam and Judaism Make Friends…
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

On Thursday evening at 8pm, every Israeli news channel broadcasted live primetime televised speech delivered by the new Israeli kingmaker, Mansour Abbas, the Leader of the Israeli Islamic party, Ra’am.

“Now is the time for change,” the conservative Muslim leader told his Hebrew-speaking audience, in Hebrew.

Abbas seems to be the only one who can save Netanyahu’s political future. He knows it and uses the moment to deliver a message of reconciliation and coexistence.

“I carry a prayer of hope, and the search for coexistence based on mutual respect and genuine equality,” Abbas told his Jewish listeners. “What we have in common is greater than what divides us.”

The history of the Israeli Arab conflict reveals that it is always the Arabs who lead dramatic reconciliatory moves and it is only right-wing governments that can positively react to such moves.

Abbas isn’t the first Palestinian to advocate the idea of coexistence and possible reconciliation. In 1974, Yasser Arafat stood in front of the UN Assembly offering an olive branch to Israel and its supporters. He urged his listeners, “do not let this branch fall from my hand.”

The Israeli-Arab communist party Hadash has been preaching the value of coexistence for decades, however within the context of the vanishing Israeli Left, their voice has had close to zero impact on Israeli politics.

Abbas knows that he is in a pivotal and historic position. He knows that many Israeli Arabs are behind him and he wants to materialise the power they bestowed on him.

“I, Mansour Abbas, a man of the Islamic Movement, am a proud Arab and Muslim, a citizen of the state of Israel, who heads the leading, biggest political movement in Arab society.” Abbas told the Israelis, ‘forgetting’ to mention that he is also a Palestinian.

Many Palestinians, Israeli-Arabs and peace lovers see Abbas as a “traitor.” I actually believe that not many Palestinian leaders have been as shrewd as him. I can assure you that a potential Netanyahu government dependent on Abbas’ support is not going to drop bombs on Gaza. It will think twice before it sends its American made planes to attack Syria and it may even stop pushing for a war against Iran. I am actually pretty excited by the idea of a right-wing Israeli government committed to the appeasement of Mr. Abbas.

But some Israeli Jews were also upset by Abbas’ speech. Religious Zionist party leader MK Bezalel Smotrich said on Friday that his party will not sit in a government dependent on any support from Ra’am. On Thursday night, just after Abbas’ televised speech, Smotrich reportedly refused to communicate with Netanyahu. It is important to mention that Ra’am have also ruled out a coalition with the Religious Zionist party.

ORDER IT NOW

And here is the most spectacular news about Abbas and his initiative. The Orthodox Jewish parties clearly prefer bonding with a Muslim party over the Israeli Identitarian Left. Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, the senior ultra-Orthodox spiritual leader of the United Torah Judaism alliance, declared yesterday that Ra’am is more than a legitimate party. The rabbi reportedly announced that “as far as safeguarding Jewish tradition is concerned, it is better to go with the representatives of the Arab public, than with the representatives from the left.”

Those who follow the shift in the Israeli society in the last five decades have noticed that religion is a growing factor within both the shrinking Jewish majority and the growing Arab minority. In both Jewish and Arab societies it is religion that produce the answers that were left unresolved by the big ideologies, Zionism, Israeliness and the so-called ‘Left alternative.’

I guess that if the fear of the Left in its current Identitarian rendition is enough to bridge the divide between Islam and Judaism, maybe identiterianism isn’t such a bad thing after all; it is certainly a harmonious catalyst.

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Israel 
Hide 210 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. … maybe identitarianism isn’t such a bad thing after all; it is certainly a harmonious catalyst.

    Just so.

  2. anarchyst says:

    Abbas statement: “I carry a prayer of hope, and the search for coexistence based on mutual respect and genuine equality,” Abbas told his Jewish listeners. “What we have in common is greater than what divides us.”

    …is absolute truth.

    Islam and judaism are much more alike than different.

    It can be safely argued that Islam is an offshoot of judaism and was created to “judaize” the non-jewish Arabs of the time, to which the jews were successful beyond their wildest dreams. Jews and Islamists are actually “two sides of the same coin”…with very few major differences.

    There are virtually identical passages in both the jewish Talmud and Islamic Qu’ran. The passages that denote supremacy of each respective “cult” relegate “non-believers” to third-class status, in the jews’ case no better than “livestock”–animals with souls, to be used for the benefit of the jews. In the Islamic case, non-believers must pay special taxes in order to be allowed to live in Islamic society and are not permitted to testify against a believer.

    Both texts proscribe little or no punishment for acts committed by believers against non-believers and exact more severe punishments for those non-believers who transgress against believers.

    You can bet that if Israel ever loses its zionist component, jews and Arabs will get along just fine and come after us infidels and goyim as a united group.

    One area where there are massive differences between jews and muslims is the treatment accorded Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

    Jews believe that Jesus Christ is an apostate, “boiling in excrement for eternity”, while his mother Mary was a “harlot who conceived Jesus with a Roman soldier”. It’s in the jewish talmud.

    Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was a “great prophet”, not the “Son of God” but a “great prophet” nonetheless, while his mother Mary is given a place of “high honor” being specifically acknowledged in the Q’uran.

    Now tell me which belief system has a greater respect for Christianity?

    Hint: It ain’t judaism…

    • Agree: Jim Christian, meamjojo
  3. I’m mildly curious to see if Fran Taubman shows up and joins in the rejoicing.

  4. a.z says:
    @anarchyst

    dont confuse the so called islamic jurisprudence with words of quran and hadith(once in bukhari and muslim sharif) the things u mentioned r not there in quran except for what u said about treatment of jesus christ.
    the one about special tax is to offset the effect that nonbelievers dont need to pay zakat( 2.5% wealth tax on ones entire asset yearly to poor), and again not based on religious text.
    i personally dont give a rats ass on the so called interpretations and believe only what is written on quran, and i m not saying it to cozy up to u that’s my default position as i think the devil went all out to corrupt islam and as the sacred text was untouchable and protected by god devil went after theologians and the ones who wanted to profit from Islams success.
    there r passages dealing with the facts about when someone takes a life in general term but there r no passages for so-called severe punishment for non-believers for killing Muslims in normal course of events.
    go read the book in its entirety and not specific passages quoted on Islamophobic sites u will see islam calls for proportional response in everything and people who break boundary and take extreme action will face punishment from god and what i just wrote has been repeated a couple of times in quran.
    buddy ur jewish peeps weren’t so nice to muslims when islam started, were actively agitating against islam in madinah where prophet took refuge and actually tried to poison the prophet.

    • Agree: Druid
    • Replies: @anarchyst
  5. anarchyst says:
    @a.z

    It is my understanding that with the Qu’ran, the later writings take precedence and supersede the earlier writings.
    I would appreciate your clarification on this.
    I am not “islamophobic” to say the least, and have a greater respect for Islam than for that of judaism. As far as I am concerned judaism’s roots are in devil worship and is truly the “synagogue of satan”.
    Regards,

    • Agree: Druid
    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @a.z
  6. meamjojo says:

    Has there been much DNA testing between Israeli Jews and Palestinians? I bet they both share a lot of overlapping DNA. If this were proven correct, then all the Palestinians need do is to adopt Judaism and become part of Israel as full citizens. Voila! Problems solved!

    • Disagree: Ann Nonny Mouse
  7. the shrinking Jewish majority and the growing Arab minority

    Nil desperandum!

  8. @anarchyst

    It is my understanding that with the Qu’ran, the later writings take precedence and supersede the earlier writings.

    You’re referring to the doctrine of abrogation, which evolved sometime after the first generations of Muslims in Arabia. It’s predicated upon the following verse:

    We do not abrogate a verse and allow it to be forgotten but that We bring what is better than it or like it. Do you not know that God has power over all things? [2: 106]

    There’s significant difference of opinion over this subject. Those who subscribe to the phenomenon of intra-textual abrogation have to deal with two issues:

    a) a profound lack of consensus upon which verses abrogate others, and
    b) the problem of a purportedly abrogated verse’s preservation in The Qur’an.

    Given what I’ve learned, it’s far more reasonable to understand 2: 106 as a reference to inter-textual abrogation, meaning that a ruling of The Qur’an which differs from that of The Torah — or any other Scripture — effectively supersedes it for Muslims while safeguarding non-Muslims’ right to practice their religion, or none at all.

    You write:

    In the Islamic case, non-believers must pay special taxes in order to be allowed to live in Islamic society and are not permitted to testify against a believer. … Both texts proscribe little or no punishment for acts committed by believers against non-believers and exact more severe punishments for those non-believers who transgress against believers.

    Taxes were levied against both Muslims and non-Muslims, and there were numerous occasions when the latter even paid less than the former. The remainder of what you write is quite alien to me.

    What is your source material?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  9. I can assure you that a potential Netanyahu government dependent on Abbas’ support is not going to drop bombs on Gaza. It will think twice before it sends its American made planes to attack Syria and it may even stop pushing for a war against Iran.

    Is it really that serious? I’d certainly like to share this opinion, though I’m concerned that Abbas will be relegated to something of a token.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  10. @AnonStarter

    ‘You hadn’t noticed her latest peek-a-boo in the Open Thread?’

    Yeah, I saw that — but that’s just Zionists celebrating another Arab state they’ve suborned.

    Palestinians actually entering into the corridors of power in the Zionist entity — regardless of the terms — that’s a different matter. Something like Hitler appointing a Polish Gauleiter.

    I’m genuinely curious to hear Fran’s reaction.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  11. Art says:

    The truth is that the Semitic Muslims, Christians, and Jews have coexisted for 1400 years.

    It is the Euro Talmudic Jew – who is the cause of the troubles in the ME and our Western nations. Their coercive dishonest culture is the bane of mankind. The Jew Question is raised because of the Euro Jew – not the Semitic Jew.

    The Euro Jew lies, and hides his “Talmudic identity” by claiming he is “Semitic” – when he is not. Within Israel the Euro Jew and the Semitic Jew are divided and participate in a caste system. It is the Euro Jew who is anti peace.

    It is understandable and reasonable to hate the Euro Jew because of his dishonest ways.

    Never ever let a Euro Jew call you an anti-Semite – because your trouble is with the Euro Talmudic Jews, who hate YOU – not the Eastern Semite Jews.

    • Agree: RedpilledAF
    • Thanks: Iris
  12. @Colin Wright

    I posted this article in the open thread. Scary for all you Jew haters out there. I told you a long time ago this entire Palestinian situation was total bullshit. It is always about the Judaism vs. Islam. Islam has been defeated and they are realizing that they are out of options. People like AS who think that the BDS is a big deal are like the last to realize this thing is over. Jew hatred in the ME is finished.
    All of those sites like ” If Americans only knew” and Alison Weir are finished. It was always false propaganda. Like genocide and apartheid and here you have a an Arab Muslim participating big time in Israeli politics. What’s left? AS dissing Israelis stealing irons from hotels in Abu Dhabi. LOL

    It is hard to face for people like Gilad who swore the Jews would go down when the left prevailed and Zionism was thought to be racist.

    • LOL: Druid
    • Troll: RedpilledAF
  13. @AnonStarter

    You are a lost cause AS. A real forest thru the trees conundrum. You are lost at sea. Take up knitting. I remember when you used to say that it was Zionist that you hated not Jews as you sifted your way from Kahzars and Douglas Reed, and then got in an argument with me over religion. It is not a religious fight between Islam, Christianity and the Jews for primacy. No No. People hated the Jews in the middle ages because they were thieves. Usury you say. Those evil Jews fleecing all of those Christians in the middle ages. You and Talha a classic time is on our side. We Muslims will win and take back our land. Because the Jews were shelled by Mohammed for not submitting to the last prophet. The seal of the prophets. They became materialistic unnatural, not real humans. They fell their books are fake. Islam must prevail.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  14. @Fran Taubman

    ‘I posted this article in the open thread…’

    ? Nothing in your post has anything to do with what I was referring to.

  15. @Art

    ‘…Never ever let a Euro Jew call you an anti-Semite – because your trouble is with the Euro Talmudic Jews, who hate YOU – not the Eastern Semite Jews.’

    This is nice in theory — but doesn’t correspond to the actual behavior of Oriental and North African Jews in Israel. Consider the Tunisian Yishai of ‘Israel is for the white man’ fame.

    He was implying the Palestinians should be expelled. Then there’s that Yemeni who was videotaped murdering a wounded Palestinian who lay helpless at his feet. The list could go on and on. If non-Ashkenazi Jews are the poor whites of Israeli society, then like the poor whites of the Old South, their racism is more virulent than that of their social betters, not less.

    • Replies: @Art
  16. Iris says:
    @Fran Taubman

    It was always false propaganda.

    One thing that is definitely true propaganda is that Israel did 9/11.

    • Agree: Nancy
  17. @meamjojo

    ‘Has there been much DNA testing between Israeli Jews and Palestinians? I bet they both share a lot of overlapping DNA. If this were proven correct, then all the Palestinians need do is to adopt Judaism and become part of Israel as full citizens. Voila! Problems solved!’

    Leaving aside the minor detail that Muslim and Christian Palestinians might not want to abjure their faith, you assume that most Jews trace their ancestry to Palestine. Wishful thinking notwithstanding, the bulk of the evidence is that few do.

  18. Art says:
    @Colin Wright

    If non-Ashkenazi Jews are the poor whites of Israeli society, then like the poor whites of the Old South, their racism is more virulent than that of their social betters, not less.

    An excelent point — thanks!

  19. @Fran Taubman

    It hasn’t always been about Judaism v Islam, it has been Judaism v insert_name_here, for wherever the Jewish diaspora moves to.

    The Jewish belief system is a mind bogglingly dull and dusty mirror, that permits so little reflection on its own being.

    Facing consistent criticism through history, rather than reflect, the action is consistently, to attack.

    It is not Esau that hates Jacob. It is very clearly Jacob that hates Esau (without valid reason), and Esau has little choice but to defend.

    • Agree: RedpilledAF, Nancy
  20. Maybe the symbol of reconciliation could be a replica of the keys of Toledo that the jews used to open the doors of the city to allow the moors in to attack the Christians.

  21. Exile says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Goyim take Notice of Fran’s declaration of victory over Islam. Congratulations, Fran.

    Now that Jews have won, we can stop sending tens of billions of dollars to Israel every year, get our troops out of the ME, kick AIPAC out of Washington and start dismantling the enormous subversive apparatus of financial and social control Jews have established throughout the “free” world in finance, media and academia.

    Or does Fran still have six million reasons or so why the grift must go on?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  22. Ahem says:
    @anarchyst

    The Islamic version of Jesus is supposed to return, some day, and wage a genocidal war on the Christians of planet Earth.

    You have never read the koran, nor have you read the 300 or so koranic verses of abrogation that nullify the koran’s “civilized” verses and adapted them to suit the tastes of followers of Muhammad and that collection of deranged rants contained in the koran, together with the so-called “authentic” hadiths.

    Christians fare little better than Jews in the koran. But then, Christians are regarded as unclean beasts in that collection of barbaric Jewish scriptures known as the talmud.

    I doubt that a phony like you has ever even attempted to study any of the religions about which you speak with such confidence.

    • Troll: anarchyst
    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Colin Wright
  23. @Fran Taubman

    Take up knitting.

    Sounds good.

    Tell you what … I’ll take up knitting if you promise to get back on your meds.

    Deal?

  24. anarchyst says:
    @Ahem

    You are mistaken. I am more versed in almost every religion on earth than you can imagine.
    There are many interpretations in every religious belief. The key is to sort out the true beliefs from the chatter that you espouse.
    I would suggest that you crawl back in to your jew IDF unit 8200 cubicle and try to disparage someone else.
    Jew hasbara troll, you have been exposed.

    • Replies: @ginger bread man
  25. @anarchyst

    Can you link to sources that show Islam’s mission is to Judaize the non-Jewish Arabs? I’ve never read that before

  26. A123 says:

    Now is the time for change,” the conservative Muslim leader told his Hebrew-speaking audience, in Hebrew.

    How does this compare to what he says in Arabic to an Arabic-speaking audience?

    Fatah’s Mahmoud Abbas, frequently says one thing in Arabic and the opposite in English. To be fair, this is not unique to Israel. Marco Rubio has the same problem in Spanish vs. English speeches.

    the new Israeli kingmaker, Mansour Abbas, the Leader of the Israeli Islamic party, Ra’am.

    It is important to mention that Ra’am have also ruled out a coalition with the Religious Zionist party.

    These two statements are contradictory.

    To be a “kingmaker”, one has to deliver a coalition. Are there any plausible, long-term scenarios for 61+ seats in the Knesset that include Ra’am?

    Perhaps Ra’am can participate in a 61 seat, Leftist led, anti-Netanyahu coalition. Such a construct would have no internal policy consensus and thus be highly unstable.

    I am actually pretty excited by the idea of a right-wing Israeli government committed to the appeasement of Mr. Abbas.

    The last Center-Right government formed based on “B&W/Gantz appeasement” with his huge block of Knesset seats. How long did that last?

    Based on that evidence, why would anyone be giddy about “Ra’am/Abbas appeasement” with his tiny sliver of Knesset seats?
    _____

    Realistically, everything will remain stuck in the current stalemate until the bogus charges against Netanyahu are permanently defeated.

    Reform (or full replacement) of the far-left Israeli “Supreme Court” is long overdue. A Center-Right coalition based on eliminating the current out-of-touch and unaccountable judiciary could revitalize Israel.

    PEACE 😇

  27. Dumbo says:
    @anarchyst

    Well, some say that Islam was created by Jews, I wouldn’t know. But it’s true that Islam and Judaism are much more similar to each other than to Christianity – lots of strange rules for everything, the types of clothes, the hate against those of a different faith etc. But Islam is a bit better, they don’t hate Christians, just want to convert them by the sword.

    Christianity became a pan-European religion and different.

  28. .What would it take for “Muslims and Jews” to reconcile? If that happened, would this have an impact as to peace on Earth? I think the answer is Yes. It would be setting an example.

    The problem has been misidentified, and some Answers conspire with that. For example, one answer discriminates between “normal, non-Zionists, non-belligerent” Jews, and then says about “Zionist Jews,” The problem is how humans routinely think. We developed language and one of the functions of language is to summarize experience. It’s a great skill, highly useful, but it has a down side. By summarizing, we lose detail. We tend to remember what has emotional impact, particularly fear and blame. We come to believe that our generalizations are truth and reality, and they never are (they are either more or less useful.) They can mislead us, because these judgments are intrinsically from our own point of view. Zionism was not originally focused on Palestine. It was about the establishment of a Jewish national homeland. I do not consider myself an expert on Zionism, but it was clearly based on a fear that Jews were not safe as minority populations.

    Everyone wants for themselves and their people to be safe. To attack Zionism, per se, is to attack that longing for safety. There is no doubt that great harm was done to Jews, and, then, to Palestinians, and back and forth, and it continues.

    The real enemy is hatred, and our habit of blaming others for harm, instead of taking responsibility for life as it is, and for, then, creating a life that works, not only for ourselves, but for everyone.

    (If it only works for me and my people, it is unstable, and not genuinely safe, only perhaps temporarily so.)

    “We could have peace if only they would ….” is obviously disempowering.

    No, what can we do to create peace?

    This much should be obvious: a Palestinian slogan, I’ve heard chanted, is “No Justice, No Peace!” I read that as “Until we are given justice, we will not allow peace.” Very human.

    The problem is that without peace, justice is impossible, because survival instincts trump higher values. Peace must come first, then justice becomes possible.

    If justice requires that the Bad Guys are punished, it may never be attainable. And we have all done things that might deserve punishment (or, at least, we failed to stand for justice, allowed injustice to continue).

    If injustice continues, peace will be fragile, at best. Long-term, both peace and justice are required. It begins, though, with safety, with a clear intention to stand for that, for everyone, not just our own people.

    If those involved (which is really all of us, in some ways or others) find a way to communicate, identify common goals, and work for them, realizing peace and justice, then, yes, it is possible for the world.

    It can be a rough road. I remember the hopes of the 1990s. Oslo Accords

    For a while, it looked like it was happening. And then it broke down. When there is a breakdown like this, we tend — that old way of thinking — to look for whom to blame. It’s easy enough. So and so did this, and then another so-and-so did that. Rather, if we really want to take a stand for peace, we must continue to take the stand, even when there are breakdowns.

    It is the same with all relationships: if partners each take 100% responsibility, the relationship becomes unbreakable. But if it is “I’ll do my 50% if you do yours,” it is fragile and easily disrupted when disagreements appear.

  29. @Exile

    Not a victory over Islam or Muslims. It is a victory over Islamist who seek to rule over Jews and declare that Jewish holy sites belong belong to Islam, not Judasim. They further state (Hamas, Nassrallah etc, that Islam is the primary religion and and must prevail as hegemony over the Jews. Jews cannot own Muslim land. Islamists refuse to respect Jewish holy sites. No Temple under the mosque etc. These people are religious leaders. They do not represent Islam or Muslims as a whole. Like the Mullahs in Iran who want to dismantle the Jewish state. Why? Because it is run by Jews and not Muslims. This is not a very complicated story.

  30. @Art

    The truth is that the Semitic Muslims, Christians, and Jews have coexisted for 1400 years.

    It is the Euro Talmudic Jew – who is the cause of the troubles in the ME and our Western nations. Their coercive dishonest culture is the bane of mankind. The Jew Question is raised because of the Euro Jew – not the Semitic Jew.

    There is a lot of truth to what you are saying, regarding major differences between the Ashkenazi European Jews and the Sephardic and Mizrahi Arab Jews, but your explanation is muddled when you start disscusing the Talmud. The religion is the same for both Mizrahi and European. The prayers and practice are identical. Even the Talmud.

    Judaism is the parent religion of Christianity and Islam. There is a natural hatred as the two spin off religions sought to improve on the original version, by disparaging Jews to the masses and portraying the Jews as the fallen, the satanic, the un-pure, in the hopes of getting them to follow their savior and hero Jesus and then Mohammed. Similar to your viewpoint Art.

    The major difference is that Europe Jews wanted complete assimilation, to be German or Polish by day and Jewish at night. Dress British speak yiddish . Jews wanted to be mailman, police officers and serve in the military, fields that they were excluded. The Mizrahi Jews lived in Muslim lands since temple times. They never migrated there, it was their home. No one ever questioned their right to be there. Islam accepted Judaism. There was no forced conversions. Mizrahi Jews did not desire to assimilate, accepting their differences with their ruling country. They had a vital part to play, and felt safe, until the creation of pan Arabism and Israel. Like Nasser in Egypt.

    Zionism started out as a secular answer to the European problem of limited livelihoods, land and housing that were open to Jews. Mizrahi Jews never experienced the holocaust, and their lives were relatively unaffected by WW2. Most (not all) European Jews really wanted to be more European than Jewish. After WW2 Israel was created as a safe haven for Jews around the world. It was non negotiable and still is. Jews would never go thru what they had been thru in Europe. From Medieval times thru the Holocaust. Thus the expression. Never again

    The Euro Jew lies, and hides his “Talmudic identity” by claiming he is “Semitic” – when he is not. Within Israel the Euro Jew and the Semitic Jew are divided and participate in a caste system. It is the Euro Jew who is anti peace.

    This paradigm has been turned on its head. It is true that there was a caste system with the European Jews being more educated and less religious, and in the beginning of Israeli statehood the Europeans ran the country. You are however dead wrong on who wanted peace. It was the secular left Europeans that started the Oslo peace process. The Mizrahi and religious Jews were always against it. They viewed the fight as religious, and not about land for peace and Palestinian statehood.

    After the failure of Oslo the left and European seculars sank like a stone and the Mizrahi and religious Jews have become more dominant. Especially after Gaza and the second intifada.This was mostly due to the religious right’s early predictions that Oslo would fail. They called early on for one Jewish state for Jews, surrounded by 32 states for Muslims. It was an early and correct call to say that Arabs would never be appeased and would only negotiate to live to negotiate more on another day. They said Islam wanted Israel without the Jews.

    There is no more secular left in Israel. Those in power now are the religious right, represented by the Mizrahi Jews. There is right, more right and then ultra right.

    The Mizrahi and religious Jews won and are running the show in Israel. Israel is succeeding, and people like Gilad and Miko Peeled and the rest of the early zionist who fought against tribal Judaism are left on a lonely dirt road. It did not work out as planned. Life never does. European and Mizrahi are all Jews, it is just a different take on what it means to be a Jew.

    And you Art will continue to hate Jews because they are not Christians. Nothing else. No other reason, Talmud or no Talmud would never make a difference. You need to hate, because they never accepted Jesus as the messiah and savior of the world.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @anonymous
    , @Malla
  31. @meamjojo

    Palestinians are Hebrews. Tbey are the ones who never left Palestine, lived under Roman then Byzantine rule. When Islam conquered they converted.
    The ‘Jews’ are a minority who left and drew in huge numbers of outsiders,throughout the Roman Empire, from all sorts of peoples. Judaism and Christianity were in intense competition for converts for centuries.
    The level of dissonance and sheer insanity amongst Jews is incredible.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @meamjojo
  32. @Ahem

    ‘The Islamic version of Jesus is supposed to return, some day, and wage a genocidal war on the Christians of planet Earth.

    ‘You have never read the koran…’

    Neither — obviously — have you. There’s nothing remotely like what you claim in it.

    • Replies: @Ahem
  33. @Fran Taubman

    ‘This is not a very complicated story.’

    Of course it’s not very complicated. You have your version of it, and that’s the only one you will consider.

  34. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Not a victory over Islam or Muslims…’

    ! This is what you just said.

    ‘…Islam has been defeated and they are realizing that they are out of options…’

    There’s something weirdly unselfconscious about your dishonesty. It’s very hard to get seriously angry at you.

    • LOL: gay troll
  35. gay troll says:

    There is no Judaism without Zionism. Zion is the mythical seat of Jewish power: the city of David. As a location (mountain or volcano) it was the implicit goal of the Hebrews in their “return” to Canaan from Egypt. It is later the dream of Isaiah who also wants to “return” to the “promised land” and rebuild Zion. As the dream of Isaiah, Zionism is also the dream of Christianity.

    The claim to the promised land has never been authentic. It was apparently contrived in Ptolemaic Alexandria. Zionism is the modern sense is indistinguishable from Judeo Christianity as a whole; it is simply a fictitious claim to specific real estate.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  36. I would hope there is some kind of settlement in Israel, of any kind really. Then we can move on. Honestly this story is so tired, the worst soap opera ever.

    What sane person cares about knit picking amongst various insane scriptures. None of this is even slightly rational.

    What will the useless press fill their pages with if there is no daily dose of crazy from the Middle East? Crazy from the USA I guess, you can see it happening.

    • Replies: @A123
  37. I told you a long time ago this entire Palestinian situation was total bullshit. It is always about the Judaism vs. Islam.

    This is a false claim. Israel treats is few-remaining Christian subjects just as shabbily as its Muslims.

    Are you aware, Fran, that it is not uncommon in Israel for Christian religious figures to be spat upon by Orthodox Jews?

    Christianity is disdained by large numbers of Jews in Israel just as Christians are privately loathed by countless Jews here in the US.

    Meanwhile, Jews in America have managed to render themselves sacred and untouchable–even as they pick apart (formerly) ‘White and Christian’ America using crypto-Jewish organizations such as the ACLU and the SPLC.

    At the same time, Democrat-drenched ((Hollywood’s)) ongoing woke war on ‘white supremacism’ is in high gear. The goyim see these curious things happening. War on Whites. All praise to Israel. Odd, no? Privately, they know who is orchestrating these double-standards.

    Yet you don’t?

    The myriad and persistent tensions between Jews and gentiles are born from real conflicts, not imaginary ‘Jew hatred’ (‘anti-Semitism’) which Jews like yourself liken to a non-rational ‘virus’. Ha! Such vanity. Such dishonesty.

    Your baseless wishful-thinking, Fran, about an impending end to ‘Jew hatred’ (otherwise known as resistance to Jewish subversion and Jewish parasitism) is also not on the horizon. Why? On the world stage, there is still way too much Zio-Jewish chauvinism, chicanery, and militancy. Try as you may, no level of Jewish-imposed censorship, denial, or political manipulation in America can prevent growing awareness and resistance to toxic expressions of Jewish power and privilege.

    Btw- Are you aware that Israel is still waging active war against Syria?

    How are the living conditions and political freedoms in Gaza and the West Bank?–Improving nicely?

    What about Israel’s assassination squads inside Iran? Still active?

    What’s your opinion: Are the brigades of well-paid activist Jews in Washington (who bribe and coerce US politicians for the benefit of a foreign power) a net gain for the American people?

    And are the billions of US dollars given to Israel by Washington annually without condition a sensible national policy?

    What you are selling us, Fran, is a colorful assortment of right-wing Jewish fantasies.

    But they’re harmful to outsiders.

    Also, there’s the matter of territory and racial status. Israel keeps expanding. Those who resist are isolated or crushed. Shouldn’t this matter to the (non-Jewish) outside world?

    Couldn’t we be next?

    Nearly 20 years ago, the Arab League offered to fully recognize Israel if it would return to its pre-1967 borders and give back the land that it grabbed in its preemptiveand murderous Six Day War. Israel wouldn’t budge.

    The Jews want the land and they want it free of all non-Jews. This includes Christians, Muslims, and Amalekites of any persuasion.

    The simmering conflict is not so much ‘Judaism vs Islam’, as Judaism vs the gentiles.

    Israel is obsessed with ancestry and race. Religiosity is a prominent outlier. This fact explains why so many Israelis are non-believers. What they actually worship is the Jewish People.

    Indeed, if Israel was about religion (belief), then Jewish atheists (secular Jews) would not enjoy the top status that they do inside the Jews-Only state. Yet they do.

    A ‘secular’ Israeli (with a Jewish bloodline) is as Jewish as any rabbi. The unifying national value is common ancestry. Race.

    Ironically, Jews aggressively denounce this sentiment when whites attempt to define American using these terms. Such hypocrisy. Such mendacity.

    How very Jewish.

    • Thanks: frankie p
  38. @Colin Wright

    I’m genuinely curious to hear Fran’s reaction.

    Well, you asked for it. 🙂

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  39. hillaire says:

    I’m so tired of whining, miserable, vexatious muslims and jews and their tawdry little problems and concerns (now of course mine) they really are surplus to any sensible requirements……

    in a sane world I wouldn’t have to give a flying fuck about them….

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @anon
  40. A123 says:
    @Leander Starr

    I would hope there is some kind of settlement in Israel, of any kind really. Then we can move on. Honestly this story is so tired, the worst soap opera ever.

    Muslim civilians are stuck:
    • Fatah is very corrupt
    • Hamas is even worse
    • Fatah & Hamas control elections & money

    To break the impasse, a new concept is required. The Islamic world needs to go around these failed parties.

    One possibility is offering a protectorate, New Muslim Palestine, outside of Israel’s borders. A new home physically distant from the current fight. Huge numbers of parents would voluntarily relocate to give their children a better future.

    PEACE 😇

  41. @hillaire

    in a sane world I wouldn’t have to give a flying fuck about them….

    In a sane world, Muslims and Christians wouldn’t have to fear what an American manufactured Apache helicopter might bring to their doorstep for no other reason than their being Palestinian.

    We give a flying f*** about them because those who claim to represent us are responsible for this insanity.

    • Replies: @hillaire
  42. Fr. John says:
    @anarchyst

    “What we have in common is greater than what divides us.”

    And that ‘commonality’ is the hatred and desire to GENOCIDE, White Christendom.

    THAT, we have historical records for…. in plenty.

    If America is NOT to die, both groups need to be removed from our shores…. permanently.

    St. Philaret of Moscow stated: “Love your personal enemies, hate the enemies of Christ, destroy the enemies of the fatherland.”

    Ορθοδοξία ή θάνατος

  43. @mark green

    The goyim see these curious things happening. War on Whites. All praise to Israel. Odd, no? Privately, they know who is orchestrating these double-standards.

    Unfortunately, most of them do not know.

    The propaganda power of mindless “go Israel, yay team!” boosterism among MAGA Americans is great. If sports gear with Netanyahu’s name on the back were sold at the mall, MAGA would buy and wear.

    Even a significant number of War on Terror veterans, ex-officers like Sen. Tom Cotton and Rep. Dan Crenshaw, continue to boost Israel. They know far more than the average MAGA does, but their premises are so warped that they are paradoxically even more committed to Israel than the average MAGA is.

    Sooner or later, American support for Israel will crack, but cracking it won’t be easy.

    • Agree: mark green
  44. @mark green

    Israel is obsessed with ancestry and race. Religiosity is a prominent outlier. This fact explains why so many Israelis are non-believers. What they actually worship is the Jewish People.

    Originally, the Children of Israel consisted of a people distinguished by both their lineage and religious conviction. The process of conversion, however, was not as open as that of Christianity or Islam. Prospective converts were required to assimilate themselves directly into the House of Israel, typically by marriage. It was in this sense that Jewish tribal identity was established.

    Yet well before the lifetime of Jesus, the hallmark of matrilineal descent was given precedence over conviction and conduct, and this has remained the defining characteristic of Jewishness to this day:

    It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship.

    So yes, to say that most Jews perceive themselves as “partners” of God is fairly accurate.

  45. anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @hillaire

    I’m so tired of whining, miserable, vexatious jews and muhwhites and their tawdry little white people problems and concerns (now of course ours) they really are surplus to any sensible requirements……

    in a sane world they’d jew holohoax and white genocide each other and end their white misery….

    FIFY. 👍

    • Replies: @hillaire
  46. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    You are one of the more creeper people on UR. With your nigger shit. But you are incorrect. Jews have lived in the lands they now occupy and other Islamic lands since the fall of the temple. There are Mizrahi Jews that lineage that goes back that far. They NEVER EVER left. 70 percent of Israeli is Mizrahi Jews not European. But you are dick brain so it is useless a racist on steroids.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Colin Wright
  47. @gay troll

    The claim to the promised land has never been authentic. It was apparently contrived in Ptolemaic Alexandria. Zionism is the modern sense is indistinguishable from Judeo Christianity as a whole; it is simply a fictitious claim to specific real estate.

    Right now Israel is the home for the Jewish. That is a fact, so your grievance is really a moot point, and the Jews are not giving it up. Get real, your story sounds more ridiculous then the Jewish version, and not backed by proven stories. A lot of Jews around the world with different histories, languages and cultures all concur on our version of the story. It’s quite impressive really for a fake story to have survived so long, and be cohesive enough to create a functioning country. More then you can say for the Palestinians.

    The main point is all of these claims of Jewish fiction is based on Jew hatred with a sizable thread to weave a rug, to claim that the entire religion and its land claims are garbage. You are entitled to your hatred and opinion. But right now the Jews have the big guns, so fuck off with your story.

    And Colin when I said that Islam was defeated it was a slight mis statement. Islam as a whole is not defeated, it is the Islamist who want to rule over and kill Jews that are defeated. That is what they say that they want to defeat and rid the world of Jews. More Muslims than not want to coexist in peace with the Jews. For some reason a tiny band of crazy Islamist have been able to create enough propaganda to fill all Jew haters (non muslim ) with music for their ears. Islamist Jew haters are candy to Jew haters of any faith. Jew hatred is Jew hatred and that is all this is about.

    • Troll: gay troll
  48. Iris says:
    @mark green

    Are you aware, Fran, that it is not uncommon in Israel for Christian religious figures to be spat upon by Orthodox Jews?

    When Pope Francis visited Jerusalem in 2014, the Jerusalem police and municipal officials required Christian centres to take down banners welcoming him, so as not to cross radical Jewish groups.

    https://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/jerusalem-authorities-welcoming/

    Banners of the Pope are displayed in large numbers everywhere he goes in the world, including in bloodied and battered Iraq only last month, but not in the “greatest democracy in the ME”. This is Israeli “civilisation” on full display.

    • Replies: @mark green
  49. anonyms says:
    @anarchyst

    The similarities you quote, to deflect from a certain truth, are feeble.

    The real truth you are trying to deflect from is that it is indeed Christianity and Judaism which are two sides of the same coin.

    There are some here who regularly quote from your corrupted scriptures about the status of the Jew in Christianity. As if that wasn’t enough, the greatest similarity is the pagan concept of “God created man in his image,” which is shared by both you pagan mangod(s)-worshipping spiritual paupers.

    So, give it a rest with the regular “Islam and judaism are much more alike than different” deceitful nonsense. It is rather pathetic.

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  50. anon[220] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You are one of the more creeper people on UR. With your nigger shit.

    You are one of the most brain dead white racists on UR. With your retarded zio jew shit that would make even a rabidly racist white window licker like “Colin Wright” blush.

    But you are incorrect. Jews have lived in the lands they now occupy and other Islamic lands since the fall of the temple.

    Yeah, and orders of magntiude more non-jews have lived in the lands they now occupy and in other “Islamic lands” since “the fall” of” your jew “temple”, and the white jew filth that colluded with the white anglo filth to usurp Palestine and flood it with indoctrinated foreign white jew terrorists from Poland and Russia were all white racist euro filth who despised black and brown jews and non-jews.

    There are Mizrahi Jews that lineage that goes back that far.

    Except there were no “Mizrahi Jews” before 1902, the year that racist white zio jews from Lithuania invented them, to serve Zionism.

    They NEVER EVER left.

    No, they would have NEVER EVER left Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia, Yemen or any of the other “Arab” or “Islamic” countries if white warmongering zionist Islamophobes and racists from Europe hadn’t declared a jew holy war against all “Arab” and “Islamic” countries”, and if treacherous zio jew sayanim in those countries hadn’t coerced, induced and terrorized them into “making Aliyah”.

    70 percent of Israeli is Mizrahi Jews not European.

    Yeah, and every last last one of your zionist “Mizrahi Jews” who is not from Palestine can fuck off back to Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia, Yemen or wherever else they came from.

    But you are dick brain so it is useless a racist on steroids.

    Says the racist Islamophobic ziotard on jew steroids who calls black people “nigger”.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  51. @Iris

    When Pope Francis visited Jerusalem in 2014, the Jerusalem police and municipal officials required Christian centres to take down banners welcoming him, so as not to cross radical Jewish groups.

    This does not surprise. For nearly the past century, Zionists (in what’s now the Jews Only state of Israel) targeted native Christian Arabs just as malevolently as they targeted local Muslims. Americans by and large do not realize this or understand the significance of this simple fact. The treatment accorded Christians by the Zions has been no different than the organized hatred directed at Muslims. They are all unwelcome gentiles.

    This conduct underscores the fact that the alleged ‘Judeo-Christian’ origins (and ‘values’) of American culture are a modern, kosher canard. There’s no such thing as Judeo-Christian values. These two distinct and separate faiths are fundamentally at loggerheads.

    Jews embrace a tribal group ethos. Ethnocentric Judaism is simply not compatible with Christian universalism.

    The late Rabbi Meir Kahane (who I met when I produced a televised debate between him and Pete McCloskey back in 1986), defiantly claimed “They Must Go” in his book of the same title. At the time, ‘liberal’ Jews were embarrassed by Kahane. Why? Kahane was prophetic (and honest). He spoke the truth. But now the cat is now out of the bag. Exclusion and expulsion have now become open and official Israeli policies. Gentiles in Israel are targeted for either permanent marginalization or outright removal.

    15 years ago, I had the pleasure to tour Syria and speak with numerous Christian clergymen in Damascus and Aleppo. They all agreed that the greatest long-term threat in the region was not ‘radical Islam’, but expanding Zionism! Americans would be shocked to hear this. Yet it’s true.

    The Jews have, by and large, mistreated Christians far worse than the Muslims; at least in modern Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan.

    Israeli supremacism has poisoned the region, particularly since America has been captured and zombified for Zionist use in a series of never-ending, ethno-religious wars.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Iris
  52. @anon

    I never called anyone nigger, I was quoting the fuck tard racist @steinbergfeldwitzcohen, who frequently refers to black people using the N word and is generally a vile commentator like yourself. But you are too comical to take seriously.

  53. @mark green

    Israel is obsessed with ancestry and race. Religiosity is a prominent outlier. This fact explains why so many Israelis are non-believers. What they actually worship is the Jewish People.

    Israel’s obsessions pale in comparison to your Jew only obsession. You have never been to Israel, never talked to an Israeli, a Palestinian, A Christian Israeli, or an Amalekite. All you know is to hate Jews so you fit the plot and propaganda to match your bottom line. Those creepy ruinous Jews fucking up the world. Really what is one to say or how to answer your accusations? Cosmic Jew hatred is so comical. There is no tragedy that the Jews have not caused, yet you expect to be taken seriously. Other than UR no one does.

    You are also wrong about the current religiosity of Israel, it is becoming more and more religious. The seculars are not the ones with the power. Jews are waking up.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @mark green
  54. This just in …

    Settlers filmed pelting Palestinian man with stones in West Bank

    The attack took place while a Palestinian electrician and the head of the Jalud village council were repairing a utility pole, which the rights group said settlers had damaged several months ago.

    Settlers can be seen toppling a pole in a separate video released by Yesh Din.

    The victim, a man in his 50s, sustained bodily injuries during the attack. It wasn’t clear if he was the electrician or village council leader.

    Israeli soldiers appeared on the scene to separate the parties. Yesh Din said the troops fired stun grenades at Jalud residents who came to help the man being attacked, which was not seen in the videos.

    Vandalism and attacks against Palestinians and Israeli security forces in the West Bank are commonly referred to as “price tag” attacks, with perpetrators claiming they are retaliation for Palestinian violence or government policies seen as hostile to the settler movement.

    It occurs to me that it would be a relatively simply matter for these settlers to shoot some video footage of their own. You know … capture some actual evidence of that “Palestinian violence” against which they’re “retaliating”?

    It’s quite certain that Israel wouldn’t miss a chance to broadcast such a thing. Funny how little of it there is to show …

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Art
    , @A123
  55. @AnonStarter

    ‘Well, you asked for it. 🙂’

    Maybe her response was redirection — but I don’t think Fran’s really up to that. It was simply instinctive but irrelevant babbling.

    Does she have an opinion about Netanyahu building a coalition with an Arab party?

    It could be just more hypocrisy — but I think it’s more than that. There’s an actual need for Palestinian support here — and presumably, a willingness to pay for it.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  56. @Fran Taubman

    ‘There is no tragedy that the Jews have not caused…’

    Now that’s not true, Fran. Jews didn’t cause the Tay Bridge disaster, they didn’t sink the Titanic, they weren’t responsible for the Rape of Nanking…

    After all, they are only 0.2% of humanity. They can only do so much.

    • LOL: AnonStarter
  57. Art says:
    @Fran Taubman

    There is no more secular left in Israel. Those in power now are the religious right, represented by the Mizrahi Jews.

    There cannot be a secular Zionist. Zionists believe that god gave them Israel. That is a religious statement and one of the most ridiculous preposterous notions ever propagated on the human mind.

    Divining what Jew falls into what political tribal array is a waste of time and an intellectual impossibility. With that said, clearly the Euro Jew of all stripes, is the most warlike, dishonest, and greedy.

  58. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…Jews have lived in the lands they now occupy and other Islamic lands since the fall of the temple. There are Mizrahi Jews that lineage that goes back that far. They NEVER EVER left. 70 percent of Israeli is Mizrahi Jews not European. But you are dick brain so it is useless a racist on steroids.’

    Interestingly, you’re close to correct. They did indeed ‘never ever leave.’

    They did, however, convert. Thus they became today’s Palestinians.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  59. Art says:
    @AnonStarter

    Enough!

    These ceaseless day in and day out attacks on Palestinians must stop. The US Jew is responsible.

    It is time to confiscate the wealth of the US Jews who donate to AIPAC and the ADL and give it to Palestinians as reparations – PERIOD.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  60. @Colin Wright

    It could be just more hypocrisy — but I think it’s more than that. There’s an actual need for Palestinian support here — and presumably, a willingness to pay for it.

    May you be right, Colin. It would be nice to see Mr. Atzmon’s confidence in this development realized beyond our best wishes.

  61. @mark green

    The Jews have, by and large, mistreated Christians far worse than the Muslims; at least in modern Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan.

    The Jews were kicked out of the countries you mention. So what Jews are around to mistreat Christians in these countries? A total nonsensical lie. Do you have any proof backing any of this up, regarding the Jews mistreating Christian? And do not give me Islamic articles. Islam has persecuted Christians to the point where they are non existent populations. Islam is the greatest threat to Christianity not Judaism. Muslims regularly burn churches down in Egypt and torture Christians. None of this happens in Israel. Your Jew hatred has blinded you to the truth. Ask any Christian in the middle east who they fear more Muslims or Jews.

    Christians in Israel are undeniably better off than in many other parts of the Middle East. Civil war has torn apart Syria, where Christians make up around 10 percent of the population, and Coptic churches face regular attacks from Islamist extremists in Egypt.

    Still, the Holy Land’s native Christian communities are being depopulated, even as thousands of pilgrims from abroad flock to Jerusalem, Bethlehem and other biblical sites.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/holy-land-christians-feel-abandoned-u-s-evangelicals-n867371

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @AnonStarter
  62. @Colin Wright

    Well that is a flat our lie. Jews lived continuously in Muslim lands as Jews. I am sure that some converted, but there was always thriving Jewish communities in all the Muslim countries, especially Iran until Israel was created. Are you blind or just like to talk gibberish.

  63. @Fran Taubman

    Israel’s obsessions pale in comparison to your Jew only obsession. You have never been to Israel, never talked to an Israeli, a Palestinian, A Christian Israeli, or an Amalekite.

    My ‘Jew obsession’ (as you call it) is entirely lawful, well-informed, and appropriate. Stop trying to squelch free expression via character assassination.

    I realize that, like most Jews, you cannot abide criticism of Jewish conduct by a gentile, but you haven’t the power to censor. So you denounce me without addressing my points. This is a familiar tactic.

    My ‘Jew obsession’ is a result of a somewhat rare understanding of the political dynamics in American life. In case you missed it, there is a great and ongoing political distortion in our culture. This makes my ‘obsession’ very important and quite worthy of study and criticism.

    The immense (but unmentionable) distortion that I’ve detected is directly tied to the successful and organized (but devious and unscrupulous) efforts by organized Jewry to steer America into multiple wars (for Israel’s benefit) and enact policies which undermine America’s cultural cohesion and national stability (open borders, anti-White legislation).

    At the same time, highly-placed crypto-Israelis use America’s mass media to construct a narrative which sanitizes Jewish malfeasance while erecting taboos against identifying the architects of these various (and ongoing) political disasters.

    Yet we’re not supposed to notice the Jewish fingerprints all over these crime scenes. Why?

    ‘Noticing’ is evidence of ‘anti-Semitism’.

    The kosher taboo against free speech and critical examination is a direct consequence of Holocaust indoctrination, ((hate speech legislation)), and Jewish-engineered guilt-tripping. This, Fran, is the downside of ‘Jewish power’. It’s big. It’s bad.

    This unacknowledged power has created a state of fear among gentiles and given many Jews a serene sense of entitlement. This is wrong.

    I happen to know plenty of Jews, and I have engaged Israelis as well as Arabs on these subjects. I presume you chat amiably with Palestinians about these issues on a regular basis, right Fran? Oh sure.

    As for me, I have walked the walk. Here I am in discussion with the big shot Jew from UCSB when I hosted a TV talk show in Santa Barbara back in 2002-03.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Thanks: AnonStarter, follyofwar
  64. @Fran Taubman

    ‘The Jews were kicked out of the countries you mention. So what Jews are around to mistreat Christians in these countries? A total nonsensical lie. Do you have any proof backing any of this up, regarding the Jews mistreating Christian? ‘

    The Mamilla Pool massacre? The role of Jews in Seventeenth-century Polish rule in the Ukraine? Collectivization in the Ukraine? Jewish participation in Stalinist atrocities in Eastern Europe in 1939-41? The Post-war regime in Poland?

    If you ever want to gain anything resembling a glimpse of the truth, you have to get away from the juvenile and self-indulgent fantasy that Jews were a lot of snowily blameless innocents, inexplicably set upon by the fierce bad gentiles for no reason at all.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  65. @Art

    It is time to confiscate the wealth of the US Jews who donate to AIPAC and the ADL and give it to Palestinians as reparations – PERIOD.

    I’d settle for one state with an establishment of equal rights.

    If we’re gonna dream, we gotta dream big.

  66. @mark green

    Well you are not walking the walk now. Pretty outdated and ignorant rhetoric. I would say below quality arguments. Like Arabs blow themselves up because they are frustrated not because of martyrdom. Yeah like they blow themselves up all over the world. You are third rate at best. There are many problems in Israel amongst Jews and Muslims, but it is not the fault of just one side. Trying to blame the Jews with phrases like this shows what a phony you are. Trying to present yourself as an honest interlocker: You are a two bit piece of shit.

    At the same time, highly-placed crypto-Israelis use America’s mass media to construct a narrative which sanitizes Jewish malfeasance while erecting taboos against identifying the architects of these various (and ongoing) political disasters.Yet we’re not supposed to notice the Jewish fingerprints all over these crime scenes. Why?

    You are in the twilight zone. No rational intelligent person thinks like this but wild conspirators. Crypto Jews. Who is a Jew someone with a last name? How do you know who is Jewish? Your level of expertise falls right here on the looser network of UR. When was the last time you held an interview? BTW, my entire family is involved in Israeli politics, famous writers etc. I was in Israel during the Camp David Peace talks preparing to celebrate with the Palestinians Jericho. Talking about sending our kids to school and camp together. What a let down. What a shock. It was all fake. Arafat refused to acknowledge that there is a Jewish temple under the mosque. Clinton was shocked. Everyone was shocked. Even the late Saeb Eekret was shocked. No Mr. Green Arabs blow themselves up because their religion tells them to do that. No other reason.

    Article written by my cousin Alex Grobman. ttps://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/299681

    “The media are part of the war,” asserted Malek Wabdeh, a Hezbollah cultural representative, “CNN is more important than airplanes.” [6]
    Dalal Al-Mughrabi is the PA’s most celebrated role model, martyr, and national hero for having led the March 11, 1978 Coastal Road massacre, the deadliest terror attack in Israel’s history. Thirty- seven people were murdered, including 12 children, and 71 were injured. She and eight other terrorists were killed in the action. [7]

    • Replies: @Iris
  67. @mark green

    This was much earlier than 2003. Since Muslims have been blowing themselves up all over the place.
    Charlie Hebdo, 9/11, London. etc. Do you know how many Suni or Shia mosques have been blown up for martyrdom during weddings? Pakistan.

  68. @Fran Taubman

    Islam has persecuted Christians to the point where they are non existent populations.

    Nobody who’s actually been to Arab countries with sizeable Christian populations such as Egypt and Lebanon is going to buy this. Your linked article, by the way, includes quite a bit of data that incriminates Israel and its supporters as the primary cause of the Christian exodus from Palestine:

    Along with other Palestinians in the West Bank, Christians face land seizures, arbitrary detentions and collective punishment that are part and parcel of the Israeli occupation, residents and rights groups say.

    In January, the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, Theophilos III, warned that “radical settler groups” threatened Christians in the Holy Land. …

    A “dominant trend on the radical right” in Israel is threatening the Holy Land’s “fragile” Christian community, says Abunassar, an Israeli citizen from the northern city of Haifa.

    Palestinian Christians are, by and large, one with their Muslim compatriots in identifying Israel as the source of their tribulation. A great documentary that captures this reality is Forbidden Pilgrimage, in which we learn of myriad injustices to which Christians living under the aegis of Zionism have been subject.

    Finally, it must be said that Christians were far safer in Muslim lands prior to the Israeli-motivated American invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq. A similar sense of security is discernible centuries prior to the second wave of Jewish immigration to Palestine at the turn of the twentieth century.

    I think I see a pattern here …

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  69. Ahem says:
    @Colin Wright

    Try browsing through the Hadiths as “authenticated” by so-called Islamic “scholars”.

    This website has a collection of the dreary verses relevant to Jesus (or Issa) at:

    http://www.discoveringislam.org/return_of_jesus.htm

    If you’re really keen on wasting time reading that tedious drek.

    bu Huraira narrated that the loony tunes Mohammad said: “There is no prophet between me and him (Jesus Christ). He shall descend so, recognize him when you see him. He is a man of medium height, (his complexion) is between reddish and white; he will be between (or dressed in) two slightly yellowish garments; His head looks as if it is dripping water even though it is not wet. He will fight people in the cause (for the sake) of Islam, will break the Cross and kill the swine (pig) and abolish Jizya (tax on Christians and Jews); and Allah will put an end to all religious sects except Islam during his (Jesus’) time. He (Jesus) will slay the Antichrist (Dajjal) and he will stay in the World for 40 years. Then, he will die and the Muslims will perform the funeral prayer for him.” (Abu Dawud and Musnad Ahmad).

    Mohammad in one of his rants said: “By Him in Whose Hand is my life (meaning I swear By Allah that), Son of Mary (Jesus) will make Talbiya (required declaration) for performing Hajj (Pilgrimage) or for Umrah or for both in the valley of Rawda.” (Sahih Muslim)

    Mohammad in yet another of his deranged rants said: “Jesus, Son of Mary shall descend; then he will kill the pig and destroy the Cross; and a congregation will be held for him for the Prayer; and he will distribute so much wealth that people will be satiated with it; and he will abolish the Jizya (tribute tax on Christians & Jews) ; and he will camp at Rawda (a place at a distance 35 miles from Madina), and from there will go to perform Hajj or ‘Umrah, or both.” (Sahih Muslim).

    • Replies: @anon
  70. @anonyms

    The earliest ref to man being made in the image of god appears c. 2/3 millennium BC in Ancient Egypt. People who come from a very literalist rather than spiritual background may indeed think as you appear to but what is meant (I can quote primary sources) is the capacity to recognise good from evil and choose the former i.e. it is not about physical appearance as you seem to believe.

    Christianity is NOT a religion of the book as you also seem to believe. Jesus is never recorded as having commissioned a book but instead promised the sending of the Holy Spirit who becomes the indwelling spirit of god who helps the Christian to walk the walk of righteousness.

    I do tend to agree with your other point regarding the relationship between the Abrahmic religions. There is a form of continuity between the OT (albeit it is dead end for Jews) and the NT which is much less strong in Islam. Without casting aspertions Islam seems to be a distinct strand that comes into being in the 7th century BC and is not firmly rooted in what has come before.

    It is sad to see the same old emnity between the children of Abraham in this thread that has dogged their history. The several hundred Jews beheaded by the earliest Muslims in Medina signalled a bloody start to this relationship and the Christians blown up on Christmas day or Easter Sunday continue that bloody tradition in modern times.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  71. “Netanyahu knows that his lawyers will manage to postpone his trial indefinitely as long as Israel is heading towards elections. ” said on March 29th.
    Wrong!!! GILAD ATZMON. He is in the trail yesterday. I will read & get perspective from you. As for your predictions – I will take-them-with-a-grain-of-salt

  72. A123 says:
    @AnonStarter

    We all know the truth about intolerance in Muslim occupied Judea & Samaria.

    ISLAM = APARTHEID

    When will Muslims stop their violence against indigenous Palestinians (Christians & Jews)?

    Until then, is it not rational for authentic Palestinians to resist Islamic Colonization?

    PEACE 😇
     

  73. Iris says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You are in the twilight zone. No rational intelligent person thinks like this but wild conspirators.

    You and Zionists in general are the embodiment of one of humankind’s oldest wisdoms: a compulsive and systematic liar always ends up believing their own lies.

    You are completely out of your depth. A 2003 poll of European citizens showed that almost 60 % of them saw Israel as a bigger menace to the world, far ahead of Iran, Iraq or North Korea. And that was after 9/11.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3237277.stm

    After that, and under Israel’s pressure, the poll was never carried out again. Break the thermometer to suppress the fever: Zionists may think that a problem ignored is a problem solved, but that’s not how it works in reality.

    The same applies even more so to 9/11, the American nuclear Holocaust executed by your friend Silverstein. It is such a derided lie that MSM do not even dare touching the subject nowadays.

    Articles on 9/11 bring scores of ironic readers’ comments, even this one in Zionist mouthpiece the DM:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9428743/The-conspiracy-theory-wont-rest-peace.html

    About half of the world’s adults already know what Israel has done at the WTC. The flood of dirt will be held up only as long as Israel’s financial attack forces control the media, through their control of the USD.

    9/11 will never be forgotten or forgiven: it has caused too much destruction.
    In a few years time, five years tops, the world will have escaped the financial oligarchy’s clutches and become a multipolar place trading in yuan. The Great South media will be overtly describing how Israel disintegrated 3000 innocent Americans with nuclear weapons, a fact that scientists already know to be true.

  74. anonymous[122] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Judaism is the parent religion of Christianity and Islam.

    No matter how many times this deceit is trotted out, it will never be the core truth.

    The true monotheism of Islam is as old as mankind itself. In other words, prophet Adam PBUH would have propagated something similar to the following core message of Islam;

    Say, “He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, nor is there to Him any equivalent.”: Holy Quran 112

    Sure, the true monotheist religion propagated by prophet Moses PBUH, which your hypocrite calf-worshipping juden ancestors corrupted, may be called Judaism now. But, that is irrelevant to Islam, because the religion of Moses PBUH is not Judaism as it is followed now.

    Islam depends on the blessed path continued by Moses PBUH, not your pagan godless ancestors. Naturally, subsequent prophets of the Almighty One, simply followed in the steps of Moses PBUH. So, the similarities are entirely understandable.

    Finally, Islam completely repudiates the pagan garbage of “God created man in his image,” aka mangods-worship (so more correctly, Hindooism/Judaism is the parent religion of Judaism/Hindooism and Christianity, with the order being irrelevant to me), proving the deceit behind your (and others here) claims.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  75. Iris says:
    @mark green

    This conduct underscores the fact that the alleged ‘Judeo-Christian’ origins (and ‘values’) of American culture are a modern, kosher canard

    The genocidal ideological hatred of Christianity and Christians in the Holy land was at the heart of the Zionist project from the onset. Attacking Churches in Palestine has been a systematic Israeli policy since 1948.

    To conceal its war crimes, Israel’s archives remain among the most heavily-censored in the world, with only 1 percent of 400 million pages of documents having been made public.
    https://www.akevot.org.il/en/point-of-access/

    Such records pertaining to Christian Holy Sites are the writings of Israel’s first FM Moshe Sharrett, of which only a fraction was made public and turned into a book.

    In government and party meetings, here is how Sharrett described the Israeli military’s “heinous acts” against Churches:

    “the officers and soldiers deliberately harmed the Christian sanctities; their behaviour is that of beasts, not human beings.”

    “The soldiers and officers turned the churches to toilets where they would tend to their needs.”

    He described how the soldiers stole a very valuable crown made of precious stones from one of the churches, broke the hands off sculptures of Jesus and Marie in order to steal offered jewellery hang on it.

    He recounted how Israeli officers and soldiers, as well as settlers, intentionally harmed the sanctity of the churches and tore holy books, and systematically desecrated the holy Church properties with faeces.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-sharetts-censure-of-soldiers-who-desecrated-churches-1.5394319

    These vile abuses against Christianity were documented in the past, before the Zionist moneyed-Iron Heel crushed free thinking and balanced information. This book, from 1968, shows that the destruction of Christian symbols was an Israeli state policy:

    It is of course never mentioned anywhere, but you can download a copy here;
    https://es1lib.org/book/3629274/f9418d?id=3629274&secret=f9418d

    Violating the dearest symbols of Christianity is still very much at the heart of Zionist psyche:

    Violation and burning of Multiplication Church in Taghba, 2015:

    Destruction of the Beit Shemesh Catholic cemetery, belonging to the Beit Jamal monastery in 2018.

    They wanted to smash, to pull down, a symbol of the Christians, the cross,” Father Antonio Scodo, responsible for the upkeep of the Saint Stephen’s Church graveyard, told AFP, calling the incident an act of “desecration.”

    https://www.rt.com/news/441676-israel-christian-cemetery-desecrated/

    • Replies: @Malla
  76. @anonymous

    My point exactly stated. I could not do a better job of explaining the religious fight between Judasim and Islam. It is not about coexistence or land for peace, a Palestinian state etc. That is why Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people with a sizable defense, so when we here you say things like.

    Islam depends on the blessed path continued by Moses PBUH, not your pagan godless ancestors. Naturally, subsequent prophets of the Almighty One, simply followed in the steps of Moses PBUH. So, the similarities are entirely understandable.

    We can soulfully tell you that we don’t agree. We think your prophet was a false prophet for us the Jews, and never took a winged horse ride to heaven from the temple mount. We can say that we believe differently. But we respect your religion. It turned pagan Arabia into a monotheistic religion very similar to Judaism. Before Islam Arabia used to bury their daughters alive in the sand.
    So we Jews champion all religions that believe in a divine source that is beyond our understanding or comprehension and the morality and rules that we all follow and the sanctity of human life.

    Finally, Islam completely repudiates the pagan garbage of “God created man in his image,” aka mangods-worship (so more correctly, Hindooism/Judaism is the parent religion of Judaism/Hindooism and Christianity, with the order being irrelevant to me), proving the deceit behind your (and others here) claims.

    Judaism does not believe in man gods, and or demi gods like Christianity and Hinduism. So respectfully fuck off. If there was no Judaism there would be no Islam. You copied it verbatim.

    • Replies: @Art
  77. @AnonStarter

    Finally, it must be said that Christians were far safer in Muslim lands prior to the Israeli-motivated American invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq. A similar sense of security is discernible centuries prior to the second wave of Jewish immigration to Palestine at the turn of the twentieth century.

    Prior to the Americans there were the Russians, which considers Chechnya and Islam a threat. Afghanistan never had a hair to do with Israel. The Russians and Pakistan and every other country think the Taliban is a threat.

    Let us deal with evidence based fact when referring to the threat to Christianity and the disappearing Christians in the Middle East. What rock are you living under?
    Below a few of the thousands of articles on the disappearing Christians in the ME. Not even going to mention ISIS.

    Persecution of Christians ‘coming close to genocide’ in Middle East – report

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/05/19/middle-easts-christian-population-in-flux-as-pope-francis-visits-holy-land/

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/02/persecution-driving-christians-out-of-middle-east-report

    ttps://www.haaretz.com/study-mideast-christian-population-dropping-rapidly-1.5380055

    • Replies: @A123
    , @AnonStarter
  78. Malla says:
    @Fran Taubman

    After WW2 Israel was created as a safe haven for Jews around the world. It was non negotiable and still is. Jews would never go thru what they had been thru in Europe.

    That is very nice. But why are there still Jews in Europe incl Russia?

  79. Malla says:
    @Iris

    Christian Zionists are supreme idiots.

    • Agree: Iris
  80. A123 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You are correct. Violent Islam systematically targets Christians. Here is another monthly round up.

    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/17164/persecution-of-christians-february

    For example:

    A Muslim colonel stole weapons from an armory and then blamed the 12 soldiers on duty for the theft. Six of those 12 soldiers—all Christians—were then executed on January 25. — The Christian Post, February 4, 2021 — Nigeria

    Separation is the simple and obvious answer to the problem. If Muslims would leave Christian lands including Lebanon, tragedies such as the Nasrallah-shima blast in Beirut could be avoided.

    PEACE 😇

  81. @Jack McArthur

    Jesus is never recorded as having commissioned a book but instead promised the sending of the Holy Spirit who becomes the indwelling spirit of god who helps the Christian to walk the walk of righteousness.

    According to current versions of Scripture accepted as canonical by virtually all Christian denominations, Jesus instructed his disciples to remain faithful to the Law of the Torah:

    https://biblehub.com/matthew/23-3.htm

    Yet he was also the herald of Good News that “The Paraclete” would provide a means of salvation for all humankind, not merely the “lost sheep of the House of Israel” to whom he himself had been sent:

    https://biblehub.com/matthew/15-24.htm

    ‘Abdul Ahad Dawud, a former bishop of the Uniate Chaldean Church well versed in Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arabic, provides a cogent analysis distinguishing The Paraclete from the Holy Spirit:

    https://archive.org/details/MuhammadInTheBible_201510/page/n205/mode/2up

    Dawud’s analysis reaches far beyond the Gospel. He demonstrates quite convincingly that Islam is the thread that binds together both the Old and New Testaments.

    The several hundred Jews beheaded by the earliest Muslims in Medina signalled a bloody start to this relationship …

    It never ceases to amaze me how otherwise intelligent individuals parrot a good deal of Zionist propaganda when Islam becomes the topic of discussion.

    1. Upon establishment of the federal constitutional republic in Medina, Jews were accorded full rights to religious liberty. They had also agreed to assist Muslims in the defense of Medina, yet they violated the terms of this agreement by confederation with Qurayshi tribesmen who campaigned militarily against Muslims. As such, it was Jews, not Muslims, who originally chose the path of war between them. Anyone who’s studied the sira literature knows this.

    2. Numerous scholars question the historical authenticity of the event to which you allude:

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/25203706?seq=1

    3. Arguendo, even if we accept the account as authentic, then we also have to accept the fact that the punishment exacted for high treason was in accordance with The Torah, not The Qur’an. This would have been in keeping with the shari’ principle that a criminal’s offense is typically punished by law to which his own convictions bind him. Incidentally, that punishment was also determined by a Jewish convert to Islam.

    And FWIW, anthropomorphic, animistic, and pantheistic conceptions of divinity have been commonplace throughout human history. You can quote primary sources to the heavens and it would have no bearing upon this phenomenon. Common men didn’t share the esoteric interpretations of priests.

  82. meamjojo says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Whatever. The point is that whomever has the most power is the ones that get to dictate policy and make demands. And that happens to be the Jews in the land of Israel right now.

    The Palestinians keep popping out more kids when they have very few jobs, resources or much of anything else to support their ever growing and ever more crowded living areas. That doesn’t speak of intelligence.

    Just like when Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great invaded and conquered lands – you accepted and conformed to their rules or you got killed.

  83. anon[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ahem

    Try browsing through the Hadiths as “authenticated” by so-called Islamic “scholars”.

    This website has a collection of the dreary verses relevant to Jesus (or Issa) at:

    http://www.discoveringislam.org/return_of_jesus.htm

    If you’re really keen on wasting time reading that tedious drek.

    None of “that tedious drek” at the link you provided supports your deranged rant in comment 25, where you said this:

    The Islamic version of Jesus is supposed to return, some day, and wage a genocidal war on the Christians of planet Earth.

    Nothing in “the dreary verses relevant to Jesus (or Issa)” that you cherry picked from the link you provided supports your deranged rant in comment 25 either.

    Pro tip: If you’re just too stupid or too brainwashed by jew propaganda to understand that Islam is about the submission to a divine God, and judaism is about the submission of filthy satanic subhuman gentiles to the holy jew people, who eliminated God’s authority after they defeated God here on earth with their jew genius, then please stick to quoting jew drek from the plethora of jew funded propaganda sites “exposing” Islam.*

    *It’s crucial you “make peace” with the holy jew people first though. If you “make peace” and accept the seven holy jew commandments incumbent upon all satanic subhuman gentile anti-Semites, none of you are killed, but you must pay the holy jew people tribute as well, as it says, “and they shall be for you a tributary, and they shall serve you” (Deut. 20:11).

    If you propose to accept upon yourselves the payment of the tribute but not servitude to the holy jew people, or accept servitude but not the tribute, the holy jew people will ignore your proposal until you accept both. The servitude referred to here is one of disgrace and is demeaning. You are not to raise your heads up to “Israel” for any reason. You must be subjugated to the holy jew people and may never be assigned to a position over them. The tribute you must pay shall be with your bodies and your money, such as the building of walls and the strengthening of fortresses and the building of their royal jew palace and similar.

    Please see here:

    https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Kings_and_Wars.6.1?lang=bi

    “What’s the punishment if a Gentile transgresses the Noahide Laws? DEATH!!!” – Rabbi:

  84. @AnonStarter

    ‘Abdul Ahad Dawud, a former bishop of the Uniate Chaldean Church well versed in Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arabic, provides a cogent analysis distinguishing The Paraclete from the Holy Spirit:

    https://archive.org/details/MuhammadInTheBible_201510/page/n205/mode/2up

    Dawud’s analysis reaches far beyond the Gospel. He demonstrates quite convincingly that Islam is the thread that binds together both the Old and New Testaments.

    One only writings of your that I agree with. The Rambam said that Islam was the thread that cleared up a lot of the the demi god and man god worship. Mohammed was just a prophet, not a divine being of god. The entire Logos stuff in Christianity is really confusing when you get into the 3 god head trinity. Islam is devoid of this and much closer to Judaism as practiced. We Jews can pray in a mosque but never in a church. For whatever reason the Jews haver remained separate and only Allah knows why.

  85. @Fran Taubman

    Fran, the living, breathing whack-a-mole game, rides again …

    Fran: The average salary of the Palestinians is $32,685.33 in Ramallah.
    AnonStarter: Debunked.
    Fran: But, but … Just look at those low-paid migrant laborers in the UAE!

    And so on, and so forth. Here a straw man, there a straw man, everywhere a straw man.

    Afghanistan never had a hair to do with Israel.

    Au contraire.

    Afghanistan is vital to Israeli interests as an eastern conduit into Iran. Iraq from the west, Afghanistan from the east: a strategic pincer move to squeeze Israel’s nemesis:

    https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/reports-israel-spying-on-iran-from-afghanistan-580328

    “Of course the proximity to an enemy state is the principle reason for carrying out such an operation and also provides legitimacy,” Semyon Tsipis was quoted by the Sputnik’s Urdu language site. “But beyond that, another objective of the mission is to acquire experience in combat in the local ground conditions and activity against the local population.”

    “The second objective of the military presence is to gain combat experience in rugged terrain. The military presence in these areas, where military operations are ongoing, is a great opportunity to gain new experience in a rugged environment,” Tsipis continued, adding that the troops deployed to Afghanistan were Israeli special forces.

    Let us deal with evidence based fact when referring to the threat to Christianity and the disappearing Christians in the Middle East.

    Yes, by all means, let us do this.

    For over one thousand years, Christians in the Middle East enjoyed religious liberty under Muslim rule. Non-Muslim scholars of Islamic Studies are largely in agreement about this, and the continued use of ancient churches and monasteries throughout the region testifies to this fact.

    Yet only in recent times have we witnessed those threats to which you refer, threats that arose only after the Israeli-motivated American invasion and occupation of Muslim lands.

    Which is the point I originally stated, one which you’ve completely failed to address with your response. I’m reminded of the quote often misattributed to Einstein: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

    So I won’t continue this unless you can actually address the point. I’ve got far more important things to do than play another round of whack-a-mole.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Thanks: Iris
    • LOL: A123
    • Replies: @A123
    , @Fran Taubman
  86. @AnonStarter

    Here are citations which support what I have written above using Roman Catholic sources which is by far the biggest Christian Church:

    The Catechism of the Catholic Church “The Holy Spirit inspired the human authors who wrote what he wanted to teach us. The Christian faith, however, is not a “religion of the Book”, but of the Word of God – “not a written and mute word, but incarnate and living”
    https://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/were-not-a-religion-of-the-book

    As best I know there are no, and never has been, any significant groups of Christians that thought the Torah as a book was binding on them.
    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-law-of-god

    (As an aside the same applies to any claim that the Mother of Jesus is a member of the trinity).

    The reference to man being made in the image of god is a direct reference to what Jews and Christians take to be the word of god and my pointing out its prior declaration and its meaning is nothing to do with anthropology of religions.

    The point regarding the execution of the Jews in Medina was not about its legality or righteousness but rather that people under the rule of the same god have such grave falling outs. The same also applies to the divisions between Sunni and Shia and between the many Christian denominations . All the holy wars, genocides, stunning acts of evil carried out in the name of god, does not witness to the truthfulness of the same omnipotent being at work in all three and neither does the pure hate on display in this thread. I feel dirty reading it.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @AnonStarter
  87. A123 says:
    @AnonStarter

    NonStarter,

    Will you follow your own advice?
    Stop straw manning and evading?

    Both I and Fran, on multiple occasions, have given objective evidence that al’Aqsa is in the wrong place. To refresh your failing memory… the mythical story of Muhammad’s visit cannot possibly refer to Jerusalem. His forces of Colonial Jihad did not reach & begin 1,400+ years of Occupation until *after* Muhammad died.

    The secondary “missing” evidence is also quite compelling. Why is this supernatural spectacle absent from all Roman & Christian records? If “Muhammad and his Fiery Horse of Impending Doom” had been seen by the 99.9%+ Infidel population of Jerusalem, it would have been a tale for the ages. One of the later Bible editions would have been rewritten to have Five Horsemen: Death, War, Muhammad, Famine, & Pestilence.

    Please do not engage in your usual straw manning and evasion. Admit that al’Aqsa is in the wrong place. That would open the door to:

    • Identifying the correct location (most likey modern Jordan or Syria)
    • Determining how to relocate the current mosque out of Palestine to a historically accurate location.

    Disengagement of the two sides would be a strong driver for peace. Jerusalem would be universally recognized as “holy” to only the two indigenous Palestinian religions, Christianity and Judaism.

    PEACE 😇

  88. A123 says:
    @Jack McArthur

    The Christian faith, however, is not a “religion of the Book”, but of the Word of God – “not a written and mute word, but incarnate and living”

    You are correct:

    The key question to any discussion of The Bible is, “Which One?”

    Various Bibles are best efforts of flawed humans with only the knowledge of their age attempting to record glimpses of the divine. It is no secret that the King James (1611, v1) was produced to promulgate an English language Bible more friendly to the Monarchy than the Gutenberg Bible (~1455). That stories in parts of the King James (1769, v2) Bible are unclear, and in some cases contradictory, is a reflection of the fallibility and mortality of the authors and editors.

    Christians follow the Word of God broadly, but there is no single text for all Christians.

    never has been, any significant groups of Christians that thought the Torah as a book was binding on them

    This is also correct.

    To the extent that the Torah heavily overlaps with the Old Testament, shared Judeo-Christian beliefs and values exist. For example, the Ten Commandments are accepted by Jews and Christians. However, there is no reason for Christians to accept the Torah version of the Old Testament as superior to any other Biblical version.

    PEACE 😇

  89. @Colin Wright

    The Mamilla Pool massacre? The role of Jews in Seventeenth-century Polish rule in the Ukraine? Collectivization in the Ukraine? Jewish participation in Stalinist atrocities in Eastern Europe in 1939-41? The Post-war regime in Poland ?

    You really have mush for brains. You keep writing this repeatedly.

    If you ever want to gain anything resembling a glimpse of the truth, you have to get away from the juvenile and self-indulgent fantasy that Jews were a lot of snowily blameless innocents, inexplicably set upon by the fierce bad gentiles for no reason at al

    In all of my years on UR I have been consistent and crystal clear about the Jews and Judaism as being less than perfect, and like all other religions and people. Let me recap:

    Jews and Judaism are like all peoples and religions in the world full of good people, bad people and mostly in-between. Jews have committed evil heinous crimes, including murder and genocide. But no worse than the Christians and their crusades, or Islam and their rush to convert and colonize the world, or the Chinese and their cultural revolution, The Hindus and the Muslims or any other peoples on the planet. The human condition is a beastly state of being without mitigating rules and regulations that religions provide. Judaism provides a moral compass and jurisprudence to mitigate heinous crimes. People are punished. And mostly the Jews live by the rules of humanity and are required to observe the sanctity of life. We have nothing to be ashamed of. We have helped and contributed a lot to humanity.

    Most of the Jew haters on this website assign a cosmic evil to the Jews. A Jew everywhere and no where causing havoc, mayhem and all things evil and satanic. Like a nuclear blow up of the World Trade Towers on 9/11 by the Jews. I mean it is laughable. There was no nuclear blast on 9/11.

    The main source of Jew hatred (which I have repeatedly expressed on this site and remain consistent) is due to the fact that Judaism (an ancient early Bronze age religion started when humans were transitioning from the barbarity to the civilized ) is the parent religion to two spin offs Christianity and Islam who in their quest to prove their validity of their new religion, rules and prophets needed to cast shade on the Jews and Judaism. This is just common sense. If you create something new from something old, well the old needs to be thrown out. How the Jews have survived both Christianity and Islam is mind boggling. But here we are. We are not the discarded group that needs to be thrown out because Allah or Jesus said we were bad and that God needed a new plan.

    The fact that the Jews have survived has created a modern day conundrum, especially after WW2. Hitler did not finish us off, and what you are left is a group of raging lunatics (the survivors) hell bent on getting rid of the wicked (blame the Jew) paradigm, and promoting the stereotypical Jews, as being sub human. The Christian vs, the Jews. Jews were blamed for bubonic plaque. The only solution was for the Jews to have their country where they made their own rules. After WW2 it was this was a life and death decision, by a group of enraged people that were not going to go down to defeat. Israel caused the displacement of 800,000 Arabs and the same amount of Jews from Muslim lands. It was not all of Israels fault. A lot of the blame can be attributed to Pan Arabism and the Arab League. Who (before there existed a separate people called the Palestinians) viewed all of Arabia to be Muslim controlled by a Caliphate. Cities and states meant little to the Pan Arabist. To them cities and states were created by colonization. States like Israel, but also states like Lebanon and Saudi Arabia and Iraq. The Arab league refused to allow Jews hegemony over any of the land they viewed as religious land bequeathed to them from Allah. No muslim land can ever be taken from them to another religion. They started war after war and lost war after war. Peace has also been tried but that also has failed, and finally the world has thrown up its hands.

    Zionism as Gilad and his followers point out was founded by secular Jews who wanted to be like everyone else, not a shtetl Jew. Herzl wanted Jews to be Athletes, policeman, military officials etc. The historical attempts to marginalize the Jews made them insular. Jews looked pale, and feeble. The stereotypical bent over Jew that horrified people like Herzl, who blamed their condition on Christian Europe. The need for an independent homeland of their own, where they could live off the land, become healthy and join the human race.

    Times have changed and the religious Jews and their looks are coming back into fashion. Actually Goyim are starting to look more like religious Jews with their beards and hair styles. I mean Jack Dorsey of Twitter looks like a religious Shtetl Jew to me.

    Jew hatred is not caused by Jewish behavior as most here on UR would have you believe, it is because the Jews never accepted Jesus as their savior. That is the only cause.

    No Collin the Jews are not fleeing Israel like it was summer camp and flying back to NY. This is not a cartoon that you have stitched together from your feeble propaganda novels. Israel is an independent thriving country, that other countries including the Muslims want to interact and do business with. Israel is a vital country economically, technologically and also for humanitarian reasons. Vital medical research and technological research have put them in the forefront of world wide problem solving. Israel is sought after and needed. The ability to revitalize stagnant Arabia rests squarely on the alliance between Israel and its Muslim neighbors. It has to happen.
    Constantly pointing out the Mamilla pool massacre is scarcely the point, and rather campy at this point in time. No?

    Ironically the more Jew hatred on sites like UR the stronger Israel gets. It serves to prove their point that the Jews will never safe. Jews reading UR will double AIPACs budget. I encourage Jews to tune in. The best is yet to come. We Jews have learned thru the centuries that Jew hatred is never about the current societal issues and crimes they are accused of. No. It is about blaming the Jews because well they are Jews. Here on UR the call to blame Jews for the demise of white culture is at the latest in the long line of the same old same old. It Medieval times it was the bubonic plaque, now we are destroying western civilization, by inviting multiculturalism. Tomorrow who knows.

  90. @Jack McArthur

    Here are citations which support what I have written above using Roman Catholic sources which is by far the biggest Christian Church

    Right, but this merely underscores the cognitive dissonance between purportedly canonical Scripture and official dogma.

    The reference to man being made in the image of god is a direct reference to what Jews and Christians take to be the word of god and my pointing out its prior declaration and its meaning is nothing to do with anthropology of religions.

    You had taken a poster to task for a “literalist” perspective of Scripture. I merely pointed out that such a perspective has been historically commonplace among layfolk. This, of course, would include trinitarian Christians.

    The point regarding the execution of the Jews in Medina was not about its legality or righteousness but rather that people under the rule of the same god have such grave falling outs.

    Okay, thanks for clarifying this, but you had stated a clear falsehood — namely, that the falling out between Jews and Muslims began with the execution of the Banu Qurayzah. I don’t mind your bemoaning violence, but you should at least get your facts straight about Islamic history.

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  91. @AnonStarter

    Did you say straw man?

    The Jews and Israel cannot be the sole cause and blame for the:

    -current problems in the ME.
    -The rise of radical Islam and the killing of innocents
    -The desire to defeat Islamic killing machines like ISIS and the Taliban

    These issues are vital to everyone on the planet Jews and non Jews. Many people including the Jews view the world thru the same lens. We are not hypnotizing or magicaly controlling peoples thought patterns. The Russians started in Afghanistan long before the west in the early 80. Saddam Hussien tried to take over Kuwait.- nothing to do with the Jews. Iran and Iraq-millions killed nothing to do with the Jews. We can go on and on.

    The rest of your argument is pure bullshit. You got a lot a lot of problems caused by Muslims and Islam. Again nothing to do with the Jews.

  92. @Fran Taubman

    Did you say straw man?

    The Jews and Israel cannot be the sole cause and blame for …

    Lol

  93. anon[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Did you say straw man?

    He certainly did.

    The Jews and Israel cannot be the sole cause and blame for the:

    -current problems in the ME.
    -The rise of radical Islam and the killing of innocents
    -The desire to defeat Islamic killing machines like ISIS and the Taliban

    Thank you for posting more straw men and proving his point. 👍

    The rest of your argument is pure bullshit. You got a lot a lot of problems caused by Muslims and Islam. Again nothing to do with the Jews.

    Your entire archive is jew bullshit. You’ve got a lot a lot of problems caused by your broken jew brain and judaism. Again nothing to do with Muslims.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  94. A123 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran,

    Keep up the good fight. Everyone rational knows that TROLLS like NonStarter are deranged.

    Someone shared a picture (not mine) of NonStarter in his native habitat, see below.

    PEACE 😇
     

  95. @AnonStarter

    With respect what you attribute to cognitive dissonance might seem a failure of hermeneutics to a Christian. The second link I gave in my previous post covers much of this but if I may dare to give a Christian understanding it would that the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus completes salvation history. The law/torrah finds its completion when Jesus declares on the cross “It is finished (alt. completed)”.

    Until the events of Good Friday/Easter Sunday Jews were under the law and that remains so today for those who reject Jesus. Not one tilde or jot of the law is removed for them. The weight of duties of the law is very heavy compared to accepting the gift that Jesus offers the Jews. Christianity gives to its believers the explicit means of forgiveness of sins and the entry into eternal life. When a person reads the NT they have to be aware at which point in salvation history the text relates and who Jesus is speaking to.
    https://stpaulcenter.com/salvation-history-the-plot-of-the-bible/

    On reading Muslim sources online it appears that doubts about the early Muslim historian Ibn Ishaq’s account of the massacre by **some** scholars who followed after him was because they believed he relied on Jewish sources who lied (echoes of holocaust denial disputes today?). That mass beheadings by Muslims take place today perhaps would incline people to accept that Ibn Ishaq’s account is non-controversial. That being said this was new to me and I would qualify my comments accordingly but not go in the opposite direction as you now appear to take.

  96. @Jack McArthur

    A Jewish perspective on the massacre that the Muslim historian Ibn Ishaq reported:

    ” Mohammed marched against them, claiming to have received a special revelation to that effect, and laid siege to their fortress, which was a few miles to the southeast of the city. They surrendered after a month’s siege, without having risked a fight.

    Their fate was left to the decision of Sa’d ibn Mu’adh of the tribe of Aus, who, in spite of the pleading of his own tribe, condemned the men to death and the women and children to slavery. The sentence was executed; and 750 Jews were killed in cold blood. Ḥuyayy was the last to die, with his last breath denouncing Mohammed as an impostor.

    The prophet wished to make a beautiful woman of the tribe, by the name of Riḥanah, his wife, but, tradition says, she preferred to be his slave instead. Thus the last of the powerful Jewish tribes in Medina was destroyed. Neither Mohammed, however, nor his successor drove all the Jews out of the country. That extreme measure was taken by Omar, who claimed to have heard the prophet say that all Jews should be exiled.

    Medina is one of the Moslem cities that neither Jews nor Christians may enter. See Banu Ḳainuḳa’; Banu Ḳuraiẓa; Banu al-Naḍir”.
    https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10545-medina

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  97. @Jack McArthur

    Well, it’s not my habit to argue over the dogma of Pauline Christianity here. As a former Catholic, I’m quite familiar with the hermeneutics you mention, and I’d only continue down this particular path if I felt there was something more meaningful to it. I’ve always found it peculiar that the bedrock tenet of Jesus’s divinity relies strictly upon interpretation rather than an unambiguous statement of Jesus himself.

    Now aside from Walid N. Arafat and Barakat Ahmad, other scholars of Islamic History who cast aspersion upon the account of the Banu Qurayza include Hans Jansen, Fred Donner, Patricia Crone and Michael Cook. You need to re-read what I’ve written. I never claimed to agree with their perspective.

    And who’s doing any “mass beheading” aside from the Genghis Khan wannabes of ISIS and their fellow travelers? It merits mentions that Muslims themselves are at the forefront of the battle against said extremism, doing the bulk of fighting and dying on the ground. Perhaps you should factor this generally unreported reality into your analysis before proceeding with any further presumptions.

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  98. @Jack McArthur

    https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10545-medina

    However devoid of detail, what’s presented coalesces fairly well with Ibn Ishaq’s account, with one exception: Rihana actually became Muslim.

    That extreme measure (expulsion of Jews from the Hijaz) was taken by Omar, who claimed to have heard the prophet say that all Jews should be exiled.

    The hadith does not state “all Jews should be exiled.” Rather, there’s an alleged statement that the Hijaz itself should remain restricted to Islam, though this has also been subject to academic scrutiny.

    Now, in the interest of equity, shall we now examine the Jewish perspective of Jesus and his mother? After all, failure to consider it might just constitute an offense tantamount to — *gasp* — Holocaust denial.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  99. @Fran Taubman

    At least spell my name right.

  100. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…We are not hypnotizing or magicaly controlling peoples thought patterns…’

    Be careful what you wish for.

  101. @anon

    ‘…Your entire archive is jew bullshit. You’ve got a lot a lot of problems caused by your broken jew brain and judaism. Again nothing to do with Muslims.’

    Yeah…but you gotta give Fran credit for sincerity.

    It’s kinda like looking at Japanese Kamikaze.

    You can’t really agree with the cause, and the technique is delplorable, but…

    snaps for courage?

  102. @AnonStarter

    However devoid of detail

    That detail includes the Banu Qurayza’s assistance of enemy forces at the Battle of the Trench, an act of high treason for which execution was the contemporaneous norm.

    Reading the sira about this, a couple of things become clear:

    1. Following the establishment of the Muslim polity at Medina, Jewish tribesmen began to confederate with the Quraysh who sought destruction of that polity. Most of these Jews were merely exiled from Medina.
    2. Following the Battle of Uhud, such confederation posed a far greater threat. The Banu Qurayza’s breach of covenant left the Muslims so vulnerable to attack, it could have easily led to their wholesale demise.

    So if we accept Ibn Ishaq’s version of events, we also have to accept this historical context.

  103. @AnonStarter

    Jesus declared “I and the Father are one” and the Jews responded by attacking him because “you, a mere man, claim to be God”
    https://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-say-He-is-God.html

    Bart Ehramn (an “an agnostic atheist”) writes:
    “Jesus as God in the Synoptics
    April 13, 2014

    This, I believe, will be my final post on an issue that changed my mind about while doing the research for How Jesus Became God. This last one is a big one – for me, at least. And it’s not one that I develop at length in the book in any one place, since it covers a span of material. Here’s the deal:

    Until a year ago I would have said – and frequently did say, in the classroom, in public lectures, and in my writings – that Jesus is portrayed as God in the Gospel of John but not, definitely not, in the other Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. I would point out that only in John did Jesus say such things as “Before Abraham, I am” (8:58; taking upon himself the name of God, as given to Moses in Exodus 3); his Jewish opponents knew full well what he was saying: they take up stones to stone him.

    Later he says “I and the Father are one” (10:30) Again, the Jews break out the stones. Later he tells his disciples, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father” (14:9). And in a later prayer to God he asks him to “glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world was created” (17:5)”.
    https://ehrmanblog.org/jesus-as-god-in-the-synoptics-for-members/

    A Catholic perspective:
    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/when-jesus-said-he-was-god

    I have no objection at all to you publishing here what the Talmud says about Jesus and Mary. Of course Christians and Muslims are deeply offended by it.

    What is a true Christian, Muslim, Jew has been the source of the aforementioned violence amongst the children of Abraham in which one persons heretic is a true believer to another.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  104. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…Jews have committed evil heinous crimes, including murder and genocide…’

    You agree then. Jews aren’t snowily innocent. Sometimes the persecution they have endured has been a consequence of their behavior?

    ‘…Jew hatred is not caused by Jewish behavior as most here on UR would have you believe, it is because the Jews never accepted Jesus as their savior. That is the only cause…’

    So Jews are snowily innocent? Their persecution has never owed anything to their behavior.

    Please, Fran. Pick one.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  105. @Colin Wright

    It’s complicated. Have you noticed that about life? Jew hatred is not related to Jewish behavior. Jew hatred is a unique irrational force that morphs over centuries.

  106. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Jew hatred is not related to Jewish behavior.’

    No, Fran, the truth is otherwise.

    Take Lithuania. Now, I doubt it had been a paradise of inter-religious fraternity, but the fact of the matter is that prior to 1941, pogroms were virtually unknown there. Lithuanian gentiles did not go after their Jewish neighbors with clubs. They just didn’t.

    But then the Soviets arrived, and in 1940-1941 there was the usual dreary parade of arrests, terror, executions, expropriations, regimentation, etc, etc. And many local Jews joined in. There was a real sense of ‘hah hah: we’re top dog now.’ No doubt Jews were victims as well — but overall, Jews were distinctly prominent among the oppressors.

    So, when the arrival of the Germans saw sudden and unprecedented pogroms on a massive scale, would you say that this outbreak of Jew hatred was unrelated to Jewish behavior?

  107. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Jew hatred is a unique irrational force that morphs over centuries.’

    Fran that’s just demonstrably untrue.

    Worse, it’s a cop out. It’s a way of evading responsibility for the consequences of your actions. In turn, that implies you see no need for change on your part.

    …and in turn, that makes it unlikely the cycle will ever end. Jews will never cease to be persecuted because they will refuse to perceive that there is anything in their behavior that leads to their persecution.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
  108. @Jack McArthur

    Thank you for offering that perspective.

    Alright. It isn’t often I’m given an opportunity to engage in this kind of discussion. I greatly appreciate the chance to do so in a more tactful manner.

    [Disclaimer: Religious discussion ahead. Disinterested parties, do not read further.]

    [MORE]

    To begin with, I’d like to point out that the interpretation of the verses which you present are quite literalist. The problem with predicating a religious tenet upon hermenueutics is that mere interpretation lends itself to alternative explanation, and in the case of The Bible, a text in which the concept of God remains dominantly unitarian, that alternative explanation is warranted.

    “Before Abraham, I am,” for example, is a statement that affirms divine predetermination. In other words, God’s creation of all that is, was, and shall be was determined long before it became manifest as we perceive it. This was a fundamental conviction of Jews, one which is exemplified in such verses as Jeremiah 1:5:

    Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, before you were born I set you apart, I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.

    If one argues that “I am” constitutes a name of God, then the statement is rendered, “Before Abraham, God,” a conviction that is also consonant with traditional Jewish religion.

    “I and the Father are one” implies a oneness of purpose, not a literal oneness. It cannot be otherwise, since Jesus also draws a clear distinction between himself and God in Luke 18:19, Mark 10:18, and Matthew 19:17:

    And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

    “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father” must also be understood figuratively, as there is no other means by which to resolve the obvious conundrum that arises between such a verse and the more abundant sum of verses in which Jesus explictly distinguishes himself from “The Father.”

    So, why the Pharisaic anger at these words?

    The Pharisees were prepared to kill Jesus because they had already considered him to be a false prophet and sought any means they could by which to rationalize his murder. (Such was the custom of Israel as explained in Matthew 23:37.) Jesus’s words were chosen carefully in order to expose them as hypocrites (which he did, in fact, call them). You’ll note that the explanation for John 10:30 is given by Jesus himself after they took up stones to kill him. He alludes to Psalm 82:6 …

    I have said, ye are gods: and all of you are the children of the most High.

    … then says …

    If he called them ‘gods’ to whom the word of God came — and the Scripture cannot be broken — what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

    In other words, Jesus reveals the use of figurative allusion in Scripture held sacred by the same Pharisees who seek to kill him for far less egregious language. In exposing this hypocrisy, Jesus not only undermined their pretense to authority, he also strengthened the faith of his disciples by proving his own judgment of them correct.

    As for violence, it’s never a preferable option, yet to this day, human societies have given the imprimatur of authority to armed forces (whether police or military) for common defense. This is because the need for such forces has been acknowledged as innate, one transcending time and geography. One may question the necessity of their deployment depending upon the circumstances, but few have undertaken to eliminate them in their entirety. Even Jesus himself advocated physical self-defense in Luke 22:36:

    He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

    Yes, we’re familiar with Matthew 26:52, which was a response to a disciple’s physical attack upon a servant of the high priest. Jesus’s command to “put your sword back in its place” and the words that follow were spoken in consciousness of the certainly bloody defeat his disciples would have suffered had he allowed them to continue fighting. It was a temporal consideration, a strategic decision that spared many lives.

    Now I acknowledge that none of this is likely to change your mind. In spite of our differences, I maintain that violence and rancor between us is not an inevitable result of them. That’s a consequence of my own religious conviction and it’s obvious that your own explicitly stated disdain for violence — one clearly premised upon your faith — allows you to share it.

    Christendom must be preserved because its sincere practitioners’ love for Jesus has resulted in great works that have benefited humankind. God tells us:

    For had it not been for God’s repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of God is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Truly, God helps one who helps Him. Indeed, God is Strong, Almighty. [Qur’an 22:40]

    May we find contentment in our faith and manifest its beauty for the betterment of ourselves and others. Ameen.

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  109. R2b says:

    TMSOI.
    Talmudic Masonic State Of Israel.

  110. hillaire says:
    @AnonStarter

    yes yes, a non-sequitur… the sort of logical fallacy I would expect from the masters of ‘pilpul’ though I presume you would no doubt be classed like my good self an anti-schmeckle, I suggest next time you respond to my comments try reading it first, then comprehend the statement if at all possible….

    then you would not have to resort to logical fallacies and appear an imbecile…

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @A123
  111. hillaire says:
    @anon

    Yes I tend to agree with you.. though it seems paradoxical, then again I think the davos crowd have some good ideas…. nothing is entirely bad you see.

    that is, as long as they go first, after all you should always lead by example don’t you think ?..

    how does that work for you mohammad or is it ngubu ? of course you’ll have to lead by example and go back ‘home’ ..

    thanks

  112. @Colin Wright

    Worse, it’s a cop out. It’s a way of evading responsibility for the consequences of your actions. In turn, that implies you see no need for change on your part.

    You are the cop out. You and AS have never seen a problem with Islam. Nothing they are all good. AS cannot bring himself to say that Muslims did 9/11, without the caveat that Israel knew and said nothing. We had to have something to do with it. Most hatred of other groups is for political or religious reasons, not for peoples behavior. What behavior caused the Muslims in China to be put in camps? The fighting amongst African tribes. The Shia vs Sunni divide. It certainly is not a cop out to say that the religions of the 3 Abrahamic causes hatred not peoples personalities. You may not agree but it is not a cop out and I am not evading anything. I do not need to empty my pockets to show you that I haven’t stolen anything. I do not need to accept responsibility for being a human who is Jewish. The Jews are always very successful, always have been educated and talented in various fields. That and their divergent faith from Islam and Christianity, the inability to accept Jesus or Mohammed combined with jealousy is what this hatred is all about.

    Jews will cease to persecuted because of Israel. People behave when they no something bad is going to happen. That is only reason why Israel has not been run over by the Islamist. Jewish survival is nothing less than a divine miracle. I really wouldn’t worry about what you cannot control. You are not going to change whatever particular behavior in Jews you do not like. No, because I could care less what you think. I do not respect your opinions. You and AS have proven time and time again that when taken apart
    your Jew hatred, and hair splitting tedious comments about Jews is ridiculous. Jews are no different than anyone else, except more successful, and it causes jealously.

    Truth is Colin you have some behavior patterns that are not very likable.
    I mean just look at a comment like this and you gotta laugh.

    …and in turn, that makes it unlikely the cycle will ever end. Jews will never cease to be persecuted because they will refuse to perceive that there is anything in their behavior that leads to their persecution.

    Here we are in 2021. Mind boggling to think that anyone could write those thoughts and be taken seriously. King Henry the 8th challenged the papacy for a divorce because he dick twitched for someone else. He started the Church of England and broke away from Rome. Then he proceeded to behead the women that caused him to brake away from the Catholic faith. People were beheaded and killed if they did not want to change faiths, and remain Catholic. Burned to crisps. Catholics were hunted down and killed for just whispering prayers. His behavior never stopped him from loosing his kingdom. All of his subjects still paid taxes. I guess they were afraid, not only that the Tudor reign continued with his daughter Elizabeth 1. Now that is real behavior that one could hate. He still had some really nice qualities.

    You just do not get it. We have tried to make you all happy, we really have through the centuries. We thought maybe there was something true behind Jew hatred and searched for what we did to piss you all off. But then it occurred to us that there really is nothing I mean nothing that could make you all love us. So finally we have retreated to our own homeland and are giving you the middle finger.

    Truth is Colin you are not a very likable guy. So maybe look at yourself.

  113. Iris says:
    @Fran Taubman

    AS cannot bring himself to say that Muslims did 9/11,

    Yes, we got the message, Taubman. If you repeat a lie often enough, yada, yada, yada….

  114. @hillaire

    I’m so tired of whining, miserable, vexatious muslims and jews and their tawdry little problems and concerns (now of course mine) they really are surplus to any sensible requirements……

    And this first comment of yours has … what, exactly, to do with the article?

    Perhaps if you exerted more effort toward making sense rather than ingratiating us with that ebullient charm of yours, you might be taken more seriously.

    • Replies: @hillaire
  115. Art says:
    @Fran Taubman

    So respectfully fuck off. If there was no Judaism there would be no Islam. You copied it verbatim.

    True story! Anyway, the outcome is the same.

    Today as neighbors, and as practical matter for the world, we see little difference between Zionism and Wahhabism.

  116. Art says:
    @Fran Taubman

    AS cannot bring himself to say that Muslims did 9/11, without the caveat that Israel knew and said nothing. We had to have something to do with it.

    So, you admit that Jews had something to do with 9/11.

    In fact, Israel is 100% the reason it came about.

    For sure – YOU Jews also had a hand in the doing.

    JEW – Shiver your timbers!

  117. @Art

    You are entitled to your opinion but I would not go as far as Wahbabism. Women can drive and expose their face in Judaism.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  118. A123 says:
    @hillaire

    Hillaire,

    Congratulations!

    Placing the proven liar, NonStarter, on the defensive is a good sign. When it resorts to personal, fact free attacks — you know you have the advantage. You will notice that NonStarter the Coward is so afraid of my accurate posts, he will not respond to facts.

    Now that you have him on the ropes, continue to press him with specifics unraveling his Taqiyya deception. Low-IQ bullies like NonStarter crumble when confronted by objective TRUTH. You too can be someone he fears.

    PEACE 😇

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  119. @Colin Wright

    I dunno Colin were you invited to Dubai by the Arbs to celebrate a kosher passover? Maybe you should try a new after shave lotion and people will like you more. The UAE are not inviting the Mullahs of Iran for Passover. I don’t think they are very fond of Shia behavior. Those mullahs really need to take responsibility for the fear they invoke in other countries, and try and change so people will like them more. Just saying. I hope you realize how stupid you sound.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-peace-of-trump-11617740860

    Over Passover I did something that was unthinkable before last September’s signing at the White House of the Abraham Accords that normalized relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.
    I took a direct flight of just under three hours through Saudi Arabian airspace from Israel to the UAE on a Dubai-owned airline as an Israeli citizen to celebrate the holiday with the Jewish community there…
    Boarding the flight to dubai Boeing 737-800 at Ben Gurion Airport the reality of the Abraham Accords started to set in for me. Here was an Arab airline with an Arabic-speaking cabin crew announcing our departure from Tel Aviv to Dubai like it was the most normal thing in the world…

    It felt like a new beginning of a warm friendship between Jews and Israelis and Arabs and Emiratis but also felt like the rekindling of an ancient relationship of “cousins” who were separated for thousands of years and are now finding our way through the darkness back into the light of a shared future of peace and prosperity for the peoples of the Middle East.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Art
  120. @A123

    AS is so devoid of facts. He searches thru microscopes to find Jew only crimes.. I bet that Apache helicopter is coming for AS next. Landing right on his doorstep. Lordy lord no one is safe from the Israeli takeover of everyone and everything. Seriously have you ever heard of a Christian or a Muslim being stalked by an American made Apache helicopter? Maybe a Russian version in Syria would be my best guess.

    In a sane world, Muslims and Christians wouldn’t have to fear what an American manufactured Apache helicopter might bring to their doorstep for no other reason than their being Palestinian.

    • Replies: @A123
  121. @Fran Taubman

    I wonder if you will ever realize the extent to which you just demonstrated the truth of what I just said.

    What could ‘how likable I am’ possibly have to do with the validity of my argument? You might as well claim I smell, therefore…

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  122. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…Women can drive and expose their face in Judaism.’

    Worse in at least some cases, they can post on the internet.

    …though actually, Fran, you’re a good thing. You keep struttin’ yo’ stuff. It’s useful.

  123. @Fran Taubman

    ‘I dunno Colin were you invited to Dubai by the Arbs to celebrate a kosher passover? ‘

    Lol! Let’s list the problems with that, shall we?

  124. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…So finally we have retreated to our own homeland and are giving you the middle finger…’

    But you haven’t retreated, Fran. You’re still here in the US.

  125. @Colin Wright

    What could ‘how likable I am’ possibly have to do with the validity of my argument? You might as well claim I smell, therefore

    Isn’t that what you are saying about the Jews? Oh I get it you think there is real terror and bad behavior that we need to deal with so we won’t get persecuted no more. Isn’t that what you are saying though that we smell. I guess you will never get it.

  126. Art says:
    @Fran Taubman

    It felt like a new beginning of a warm friendship between Jews and Israelis and Arabs and Emiratis but also felt like the rekindling of an ancient relationship of “cousins” who were separated for thousands of years and are now finding our way through the darkness back into the light of a shared future of peace and prosperity for the peoples of the Middle East.

    Oh ya’ — Kumbaya and kissy face – Zionism and Wahhabism – what a powerful duo. World leaders in terror.

    Hmm — let’s see — US + Israel + Saudi vs. Iran + Russia + China + Syria + Hezbollah + six million Muslin and Christian Semites in Israel’s borders.

    The US people do not want to have anything to do with the ME. Israel is afraid of Hezbollah. All it has is nukes and an air force vulnerable to Russian defenses. Due to US Jews, America gets ever weaker. In short order, the world will not put up with Jew nukes. Saudi cannot fight its way out of a wet paper bag. The Palestinians are tested.

    You Jews cannot deny that America gets weaker and weaker because of your Zionism. Day by day we Americans lose more freedom. From a world historical perspective, you Jews are guilty of the greatest crime ever.

  127. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every one of the world’s problems looks like a Jew. Or something like that.

    So many eloquent lies on display here.

    Hate is the disease you choose to have.

  128. @AnonStarter

    The Jews stoned Jesus because he claimed to be God : John 10:33 “We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

    “Before Abraham was, I am”, or close variant, is the usual translation for that passage and not Bart Ehrman’s shortened form in the link I gave and which you quote. I am not qualified to give an opinion on why scholars translate this passage the way they do however, I do recognise the meaning in several texts which long predate the bible.

    Christians describe becoming a child of god through baptism.
    http://www.beginningcatholic.com/baptism

    Christian pacifists I believe to be only a very small minority and their sacred texts do not support it. That being said Jesus taught:

    [MORE]

    3“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    4Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
    5Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the earth.a
    6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be filled.
    7Blessed are the merciful,
    for they will be shown mercy.
    8Blessed are the pure in heart,
    for they will see God.
    9Blessed are the peacemakers,
    for they will be called sons of God.
    10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    11Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you.

    Suicide bombers and suchlike who murder indiscriminately are evil. Their mountain of sin is then compounded when they invoke the name of god when committing murder. So called Christians with Jewish masters, who worship mammon, and who destroy whole countries unjustly are even worse.

    Thank you for the passage you quote from the Qur’an. If only those who try to blow up a church and the people inside knew passages like this. I was told by a Muslim that there people who can recite the Qur’an in parrot fashion in Arabic but do not understand a word of it. I have tried to tell Christians to stop quoting isolated verses from the Quran which they believe sanction atrocities because they do not give the surrounding context which gives a very different meaning. Those out of context passages can then bring about very thing which they condemn when a recent convert filled with misplaced zeal takes them at face value and does terrible things.

    As an aside when, according to scholars, monotheism first appears in history in Ancient Egypt (c. 2nd millenum bc) it is associated with violence.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  129. @Jack McArthur

    At least one hadith qudsi uses language quite similar to John 10: 30:

    God said: Whosoever shows hatred to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory work so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes, and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.

    And thank you for quoting the beatitudes: a perpetually satisfying well-spring of motivation.

    I have tried to tell Christians to stop quoting isolated verses from the Quran which they believe sanction atrocities because they do not give the surrounding context which gives a very different meaning. Those out of context passages can then bring about very thing which they condemn when a recent convert filled with misplaced zeal takes them at face value and does terrible things.

    Your effort is most welcome, Jack. I should say that it’s highly unlikely a recent convert will pay much attention to the numerous distortions arising from the anti-Islam camp. They usually seek the company of actual Muslims, particularly those who know and practice the religion sincerely.

    That said, I’ve always wondered why more critics of Muslim extremism don’t adopt your position. I mean, if the goal is to eliminate — or at least minimize — said extremism, shouldn’t they be advocating the non-extremist, mainstream perspective of Islam?

    I think we may not persuade each other of certain matters, though I’m very pleased that we’ve been able to tone down the rhetoric and share our perspectives as pacifically as we have thus far.

    An oasis amid an otherwise arid plain, all praise to God.

  130. chrimony says:
    @Fran Taubman

    AS cannot bring himself to say that Muslims did 9/11, without the caveat that Israel knew and said nothing.

    The Dancing Israelis are a documented fact. They celebrated the destruction of the towers, and were caught with cash and plane tickets to leave the country the next day. At the minimum they knew about it. At the worse they took part in planning it. Denying documented facts shows you aren’t interested in truth.

    The Jews are always very successful, always have been educated and talented in various fields. That and their divergent faith from Islam and Christianity, the inability to accept Jesus or Mohammed combined with jealousy is what this hatred is all about.

    Uh huh. So it’s never about how they behave? Kicked out of over 100 countries, never their fault? Jews are nation destroyers. They are always prominent in subversive movements.

    The Jewish religion is a supremacist religion, based on a “Chosen People” with a “Promised Land”. Promised to be favored among all nations. Self-serving nonsense.

  131. R2b says:

    Many words here.
    Israel is Talmudic masonic.
    Thats all there is to it.
    The US is masonic Talmudic.
    Under the masonic moon.
    Out of this there is only one way.
    The Way, The Truth, The Life.

  132. A123 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Seriously have you ever heard of a Christian or a Muslim being stalked by an American made Apache helicopter?

    Israel runs a modified version of the Apache, AH-64i Saraph [MORE] When Iranian al’Hezbollah was operating close to the Israeli border it was used to deal with isolated outposts and, of course, vehicles in motion.

    I bet that Apache helicopter is coming for AS next. Landing right on his doorstep.

    Given that Saraph(Apache) munitions would be prone to accidentally passing through one residence into the next, it is not a first choice for urban residential environments. The UH-60 Black Hawk would be a much more likely choice for a Special Operations quick dash to grab a high value target.

    Of course, Christians & Jews are happy to have NonStarter posting. The damage he does discrediting his own side is a great service. If he is suddenly grabbed, it would be by his fellow Muslims wanting to silence his incompetence.

    PEACE 😇

    [MORE]

     

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Iris
  133. hillaire says:
    @AnonStarter

    perhaps you should take your own advice and stop wasting my time…

    but just because you are a ‘bit slow’ and I’m feeling charitable…. ‘WHEN ISLAM AND JUDAISM MAKE FRIENDS’, written by jew saxophonist gilad atzmon whom I have seen live and recommend most heartily…

    who then proceeds to waffle on in his usual jew-centric manner about a load of semite bollocks… that no doubt is affecting the politics of a jew dominated british isles, drowning in pakistani muslim sexual deviants and assorted immigrant race hustlers….

    Now tell me again why I, a whisky drinking saxon englishman should have to put up with this shit in a country my family died and fought for, for over a millennia and watch their memories spat on by bunch of thankless wogs….. which is why I say once again…

    ‘IN A SANE WORLD I WOULDN’T GIVE A FLYING FUCK’… but it isn’t a sane world is it achmed ?

    and none of you muslim pilpul nonsense I get enough of that courtesy of the BBC…

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  134. @hillaire

    perhaps you should take your own advice and stop wasting my time…

    Who said you were wasting my time?

    In fact, I agree with you: In a sane world, the concerns of Palestine would not be the concerns of your nation.

    but it isn’t a sane world is it achmed ?

    Precisely … which is why I initially responded as I had. Those concerns have become our problem because our home countries are essentially servants of Israel.

    “Pakistani muslim sexual deviants” and “immigrant race hustlers” in your home country have nothing to do with those concerns, nor with the prospect of cooperation between Israeli Jews and Muslims about which Mr. Atzmon appears optimistic. The subject of the article gives cause for hope, not vexation.

    In any event, I appreciate your charity. At least you have the willingness to explain yourself.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Hillaire
  135. @A123

    It’s awesome to see AS engage in idiotic rationals for why Islam is not causing problems in Europe, and around the world today. Islam is the leading cause of immigration mayhem and anti western values the bedrock of our civilization. Most sane muslims in the ME are reaching out to the Jews to stop the nonsense that has strangled that part of the world for centuries. Trying to stitch together groups of people in peace because it is necessary for the good of everyone. And these Islamist and their death cults, only appeared after Israel became a state. We drove them to become terrorist. Not their fault.

    AS was taught in a religion who’s central theme is how the Jews after Abraham corrupted the religion and offended Allah. So deviant were the Jews that they were dispersed into a material wasteland of deviant cultish worship of money, evil and deviant ways. Think of the most deviant thing and it came from the Jews. They Torah is not only a corrupted version of the real true faith as Allah meant it. It is built on falsehoods by a fallen people. Allah has cast them aside.

    I do not understand why AS keeps looking for tangible proof and does not quietly admit that the source of his feelings are in the Koran. Why lie about what was taught by posting articles about Jews stealing irons from hotels in Abu Dhabi? I just don’t get it.

    I learned the difference between Islam, Christianity and Judaism right here on UR, by the awesome scholars AS and Talha, and their followers like Colin who will declare, that there is no need to search for the Jewish temple under Al Aksa. The Mosque IS the replacement of the Jewish temple that was always a mosque but we just did not know it at the time and thought it was a Jewish temple. It’s a bit confusing, but when one religion replaces another actual physical structures that existed are resigned, and the past is just reassigned.

    From the Koran:
    [2.88] And they say: Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief; so little it is that they believe.

    [2.98] Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His apostles and Jibreel and Meekaeel, so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers.

    And there you have it. Why would anyone wonder about Jew hatred and where it comes from. AS will calmly tell you as he searches thru his medieval microscope that nay it is not Islam that hates the Jews. It is that the Jews practice usury: a code word for thievery. Want to find out more. Read the Koran it’s all in there.

  136. Iris says:
    @A123

    I am curious as to why you are now allowed to openly threaten the life of another commenter.

    Is there some endgame nearing that the rest of us Goyim are not aware of?

    Anyway, giving you a “Troll” would not really do it; you are an integral piece of shit.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @AnonStarter
  137. @Iris

    Anyway, giving you a “Troll” would not really do it; you are an integral piece of shit.

    What does a non integral piece of shit look like? Just curious. Maybe it is plane flying down the east river off the Island of Manhattan where one can see river to river down at the thin end of the Island, heading for the World Trade Towers. People did see planes. Lots of people. That is what an integral piece of shit looks like. An airplane.

  138. @Art

    ‘Today as neighbors, and as practical matter for the world, we see little difference between Zionism and Wahhabism.’

    ? I see quite a difference. How many of the eight largest contributors to Biden’s campaign were Wahhabis? How many Wahhabis has he appointed to his cabinet?

    The Wahhabis are unfortunate. The Zionists are destroying us.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  139. Hillaire says:
    @AnonStarter

    I appreciate your candour , however I must explicate a point regarding the immigrant problems in the septic isles..

    you seem to think that the current freefall of british society, due mainly to unreasonable legal strictures placed on the ethnic brits through successive governments and relentless psychological propaganda, happened in some sort of vacuum, an act of nature so to speak as inevitable as death itself..

    perhaps that we deserve it because of our tratorous jew like politicians and the senseless murder of ethnic arabs and pashtuns, that we are guilty of the crimes of the father…. some how reversed when dealing with ‘Isolated’ bombings.. which no doubt are gladio style psy-ops..

    the truth of the matter is these legal strictures and social manacles were created on the whole by immigrant jews who wished to re-engineer british society in a manner more suited and beneficial to themselves and the british traitors interbred and in their pockets.. ‘barbara roche’ springs to mind a most unsavoury ‘blairite’ cheka operative..

    in the brexit farago for example the rancorous’ letwin’ and goblin like ‘bercow’, there are many more going back centuries where all the names and their bastard legislative creations are freely available, I wont therefore bore you with copy pasta (Which is only interesting in exceptional cases, imbeciles should work to educate themselves, it helps build intellect and character)..

    these puckish yet malevolent creatures have now teamed up with a myriad of muslim organisations ( there are literally thousands of minority advocacy groups in blighty, but all english groups proscribed and smeared… you wont even find one ethnic english focused org ) astro-turfed into existence by goblin middle management to hammer the last nail into the coffin of british ethnic identity all ably supported by the financial parasites and mockingbird media…

    so jews and muslims getting lovey dovey isn’t really something that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling

    sorry about that.

  140. you seem to think that the current freefall of british society, due mainly to unreasonable legal strictures placed on the ethnic brits through successive governments and relentless psychological propaganda, happened in some sort of vacuum, an act of nature so to speak as inevitable as death itself..

    Absolutely not. I’m quite conscious of what you write.

    Yet there’s a notable difference here: Said cooperation in Palestine bears the potential (we hope) to eventually bring the protracted conflict there to a much desired close.

    It’s difficult to measure how significant an end to that conflict would be. It would have seismically positive repercussions, releasing our countries from the financial, social, and political burden of supporting tyranny and disabusing extremists of a key rationale to their aggression.

    Yes, it will not solve all your problems at home, but those problems are clearly distinct from the matter of a prospective détente in Palestine.

    • Replies: @Hillaire
  141. @Iris

    Odd thing is, it’s hard to get mad at him. I’m flattered, in fact, that he gives me such attention. I certainly don’t think I’m deserving of it.

    But he’s got his position and he feels quite strongly about it. If we were to avoid the topics of Israel and Islam, I imagine we might share a lot in common. Ideally, we might even get together to enjoy some great weather, burgers off the grill, and edifying conversation.

    No need to be surprised. There’s just too much rancor in these environs to get down and dirty with the epithets time and again. “Bully,” “coward,” “liar,” “imbecile,” and “fraud” fall too far wide of the mark to give a second thought. “Piece of shit”? He’s not so much threatening as he is telling me I’m not important enough for him to personally harm. I can accept that.

    The thread-leading article was supposed to engender hope in potential cooperation between Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims and look where it’s all led again.

    *sigh*

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  142. @Colin Wright

    The Wahhabis are unfortunate. The Zionists are destroying us.

    That is actually not true on many levels. The first being it’s the Chinese that are destroying US, not the Zionist. The Chi Coms are engaged in replacing the dollar with a digital currency. Once the dollar is gone so goes the US.

    When you say Zionist are the destroyers, it is misleading and oddly confusing. Who are the Zionist?The strongest Zionist are Christian, not Jewish, and are far more aggressive and anti Muslim then the average Jewish liberal, who as you know are being accused of bringing down Western Civilization via the democratic party. Most Zionist are Republicans. See how confusing this blaming the Zionist gets.

    Take the the Trump administration vs. the Biden. Maybe there are more Jews in the Biden administration but they are pretty wishy washy and more pro Palestinian and anti Israel than Trump’s. Same with the Obama administration. Mike Pompoe is far more pro Israel and anti Palestinian than Blinken. Pompoe cut off funding to the PLO and Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem. Blinken would never do that. And John Kerry the most anti Israeli SS ever.

    Trying to identify who is destroying the country by looking for Jews is a waste of time. Jews I repeat are not destroying the country. Zionism also has strong support amongst European right wing fascist nations. La Penn is courting the Jewish vote in France. These nationalist and protectors of European culture, view Jewish nationalism and Israel as a likable goal. IE. They do not want Muslim immigration. The European Jewish population is dwindling.

    Jewish scapegoating is always a moving target and always always a cover for what and who are really the destroyers. Last time I looked there were no Jews in the Chi Com government. Who will defend Hong Kong and Taiwan? Iran?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Anon
  143. Hillaire says:
    @AnonStarter

    If it is any consolation I agree with you regarding ‘the stolen state’…
    my previous comments will attest to this fact..

    and my issues regarding the situation at home are essentially a creation of anglo-zionist machinations so I think we can probably agree on a great many things..

    Like yourself I am not an irrational ‘racist’ , I am a very rational ‘racist’….

    not because I ‘hate’ but because I am being replaced by an enemy in parliament that pretends to represent ‘me’..

    and of course ,we aren’t getting ‘their best’……

    Good Day

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Hillaire
  144. @Hillaire

    Like yourself I am not an irrational ‘racist’ , I am a very rational ‘racist’….

    not because I ‘hate’ but because I am being replaced by an enemy in parliament that pretends to represent ‘me’..

    and of course ,we aren’t getting ‘their best’……

    What lame grievances. Why don’t you and your friends run for parliament, and take back your country? I am sure you can do it if you put your mind to it. But then you would have no one to blame for your sorrows.

    • Replies: @Hillaire
    , @Colin Wright
  145. R2b says:

    Israeli identitarian left, is supposed to accomplish the meeting of unprobables, according to mr Atzmon.
    Like kabbalistic alchemy.
    And that is how that state runs.
    Will there be a return for the refugees?
    I really hope so.
    But I’m doubtful.
    But lets see, now that the world is turning and nobody knows what comes next.
    But until then, let us us never forget, that Israel is a pharisaic, Talmudic and masonic state, and their inhabitants suffer and should throw of their yoke.
    And find the way, truth and life.

  146. Hillaire says:
    @Hillaire

    Who rattled your cage imbecile ?

  147. Hillaire says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Who rattled your cage imbecile ?

  148. a.z says:
    @Fran Taubman

    mbs is not the population buddy like reza shah was not the population

  149. @Fran Taubman

    ‘That is actually not true on many levels…’

    We don’t even need to get to the truth of the statements that follow.

    It’s incoherent babble in the first place, that fails to even respond to what I said.

    I might as well claim I just harvested a ripe watermelon in my yard. At this time of the year, it would be physically impossible, but never mind that, it’s got nothing to do with the conversation. What does Zionism’s supposedly strong support among the supposedly fascist nations of Europe have to do with whether or not it’s destroying my country?

    …and who is ‘La Penn’?

  150. @Fran Taubman

    ‘What lame grievances. Why don’t you and your friends run for parliament, and take back your country? I am sure you can do it if you put your mind to it. But then you would have no one to blame for your sorrows.’

    If he’s British, be careful what you wish for.

  151. @AnonStarter

    ‘The thread-leading article was supposed to engender hope in potential cooperation between Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims and look where it’s all led again.’

    On reflection, my suspicion is that such an outcome is logically impossible.

    The Jews of Israel don’t really have a sufficient sense of national identity to survive without an ‘enemy at the gates.’ Persistently, they turn to the Palestinians to furnish that enemy.

    A decade or so back, there was a very revealing episode. Israeli Jews were protesting economic conditions in the streets. Things were really getting out of hand.

    Suddenly, there was a ‘terrorist attack.’ Some infiltrators were able to cross the border with Egypt deep in the Negev — a good hundred miles from Gaza, if memory serves.

    Nevertheless, ‘it was Hamas.’ Israel mounts a massive and murderous barrage against Gaza, Hamas ineffectually responds, and we’re off to the races.

    The protests immediately come to an end. All good Jews rush to man the ramparts. A few score dead Palestinians later it all dies down — but the protests have been forgotten.

    It was all a microcosm of how the Jewish state maintains its identity. Without an external enemy, Israel would collapse into internal strife. They have to hate, to lash out, to provoke endless strife. You can no more come to an understanding with them than you can get along with a rabid dog.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Wielgus
  152. lock2 says:
    @anarchyst

    Holy fuck, ive seen people blame jews for the creation of many things but this is on another level. Worst analysis of islam ive ever come across.

  153. @Colin Wright

    Recently, I returned to Uri Ben-Eliezer’s War Over Peace, in which he expounds upon the lengthy history of Israel’s ethno-nationalist militarism. Ben-Eliezer convincingly demonstrates how Israel’s civilian administration has been consistently beholden to the military. Every power struggle between the two has — on the rare occasions they’ve occurred — ended in favor of the latter.

    That evidence doesn’t appear to favor a pacific outlook, at least not if history consists of an unalterable pattern of conduct. Yet haven’t you once stated that Israel would end with a whimper and not a bang? How do you see this happening without armed confrontation?

    Is this supposed to occur by demographic shift? Inevitably declining international support? I’m sincerely curious to know how you arrive at this conclusion.

  154. Iris says:
    @AnonStarter

    Is this supposed to occur by demographic shift? Inevitably declining international support? I’m sincerely curious to know how you arrive at this conclusion.

    The later declarations by China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi gives good clues.

    It is an extraordinary declaration in the goals it outlays, because it shows that China’s involvement in the Middle East will not be limited to its recent strategic agreement with Iran.

    China is a pursuing a much more comprehensive geopolitical framework by which the ME will ultimately be rid of the US’ imperial straitjacket, with sovereignties restored and multilateral relationships based on national interests, not on any hegemon’s.

    A most important interview:
    https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/zxxx_662805/t1864531.shtml

    With regard to Palestine, he said:

    Second, upholding equity and justice.
    Nothing represents equity and justice in the Middle East more than a sound solution to the question of Palestine and earnest implementation of the two-state solution. We support active mediation by the international community toward this objective and holding an authoritative international meeting on this matter when conditions are ripe.

    In its presidency of the UN Security Council this May, China will encourage the Security Council to fully deliberate on the question of Palestine to reaffirm the two-state solution. We will continue to invite peace advocates from Palestine and Israel to China for dialogue. We also welcome Palestinian and Israeli representatives to China for direct negotiations.

    Israel’s military superiority only exists because it is backed by the USA.

    While China always was, and still remains, very friendly towards Israel, it is also a great civilisation who recognises the other great civilisations of which the ME is the cradle: Iraq, Syria, Iran, Lebanon and Egypt. It cannot and will not associate itself with the type of bestial abuse the sub-human Israelis have submitted the Palestinian people to.

    As the USA’ s influence fades in the region, Israel will have to turn to China for security and economic benefits. China, as guarantor of Israel’s security, will put diplomatic but firm pressure for a fairer treatment of the Palestinian question.
    The Israelis will keep a country, but one when where they will have to give back a lot of what they grabbed under the US protectorate.

    There will be no war, no nuclear showdown, no massacres, no pogroms, nothing of the sort. But things will return to a fairer and more equalitarian balance. Many Israelis may not like losing their superior position, and will return to the Western countries they hold citizenship of, that assuming that Western living standards are still attractive by then…

    Contrary to the destitute but incredibly courageous Palestinians, the Israelis haven’t demonstrated bravery or patriotism. Their military and political acts were executed under the hegemonic protection of the American Golem. When they are forced to play on a levelled field and respect the same rules as others, a lot of them will leave.

    CW is right to say that, short of a violent large-scale war, Israel will most likely go in a whimper. The Israelis leadership knows it too, which is why their last chance to continue dominating the world through the USA is to trigger a war between superpowers, targeting China in particular.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @AnonStarter
  155. @AnonStarter

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/when-islam-and-judaism-make-friends/#comment-4568506

    I’ve been hoping that Mr. Atzmon might offer an explanation of his optimism, though it appears he hasn’t been his typically active self in this thread.

  156. @AnonStarter

    ‘…Yet haven’t you once stated that Israel would end with a whimper and not a bang? How do you see this happening without armed confrontation?’

    As conditions become less favorable for Israel, increasing numbers of Jews will leave. Even now — with massive subsidies and physical and moral support from the US — forty percent of all Jews in Israel say they would emigrate if only they could.

    The fewer Jews are left, of course, the less viable the state becomes. The more fragile its remaining support from abroad, the more suicidal a violent reaction. The last million or so Jews will be leaving an ‘Israel’ with a gentile majority, a gentile army, etc. There will be nothing for them to stay for.

    All the rest of us really have to do is (a) pull the plug, and (b) make it easy for the Jews to move elsewhere. Just keep the Airbuses flying into Ben Gurion empty and flying out full. Fran can help make a home for them on Long Island.

  157. Okay, thanks for the break down.

    I, too, sense that, in one way or another, Israel is rapidly approaching a situation that will compel them to take a significantly different approach with respect to the maintenance of its Middle Eastern polity. The “normalization” drive appears, in part, to be motivated by a sense of urgency about this.

    Some other news:

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/340331/americans-favor-israel-warming-palestinians.aspx

    The most recent polling shows the numbers are gradually shifting in favor of Palestinians. This is occurring in spite of every effort to silence pro-Palestinian activism through anti-BDS legislation, internet censorship, and the usual strong-arm intimidation tactics.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  158. My initial response to this is here:

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/when-islam-and-judaism-make-friends/#comment-4582296

    I’m not sure how it got situated immediately after your post, as I had submitted a reply to Iris first.

    Oh, well.

  159. @Iris

    While China always was, and still remains, very friendly towards Israel, it is also a great civilisation who recognises the other great civilisations of which the ME is the cradle: Iraq, Syria, Iran, Lebanon and Egypt. It cannot and will not associate itself with the type of bestial abuse the sub-human Israelis have submitted the Palestinian people to.

    Are you out of your mind? China is one of the worlds worst human rights abusers. People are tortured and kept in Gulags for speaking out against the Communist rule. Are you aware of how many people died during the Chinese communist cultural revolution? Some say 20 million. Exact figures unknown. Do you have any perspective or grasp about anything you that you discuss or write about in your posts.? China is a prison for those who challenge autocratic rule. There is no escape. Just ask Hong Kong, or Taiwan? People are literally trapped in those countries being threatened by military takeover.

    Entire families separated, with children raised in education camps. There was a special on CNN about a family that was detained and separated from their children who have not seen their parents in 4 years.

    You really really think the Chinese are going to stand up for Palestinians and the world is going to take them seriously? That the Chinese have any standing in the world with regards to human rights.

    China is a pursuing a much more comprehensive geopolitical framework by which the ME will ultimately be rid of the US’ imperial straitjacket, with sovereignties restored and multilateral relationships based on national interests, not on any hegemon’s.

    You mean that China will rid the ME of American hegemony so the the Chinese can run things in the most autocratic way possible. The Chinese do not recognize Democracy as a political system.
    Japan a democratic country is quaking in their boots that the waters surrounding their country will be taken over by the Chinese. Armies are forming as we speak to suppress Chinese expansion.

    You are either one of the most misinformed or just plain ignorant people I have ever encountered on UR. Why not educate yourself on how wonderful the Chinese are, and be prepared to work fo 10 cents an hour making junk for Alibaba Inc. The Chinese don’t actual invent or engineer products they copy them and steal inventions from other countries. It’s called intellectual property theft. They take the stolen blue prints then manufacture the products with cheaper labor, that other countries who pay living wage to their employees cannot compete with. The Chinese are quite diabolical in the way they steal other countries technology. They buy the blueprints as distributors and proceed to put the parent company out of business.

    I wish the Palestinians a lot of luck with the Chinese as their champions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

    • LOL: Iris
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  160. @AnonStarter

    That evidence doesn’t appear to favor a pacific outlook, at least not if history consists of an unalterable pattern of conduct. Yet haven’t you once stated that Israel would end with a whimper and not a bang? How do you see this happening without armed confrontation?

    Is this supposed to occur by demographic shift? Inevitably declining international support? I’m sincerely curious to know how you arrive at this conclusion

    Colin has stated this many times. I am also curious as to how he came to this conclusion, or why he thinks Israel has nukes, if they are so iffy about staying, and will go out in a whimper. He also often states that the Israelis will decamp from Israel like it was a holiday and they will all fly back to NY when the going gets tough. Like any minute now.

    That scenario does not seems to be playing out. If anything, Israelis are boarding flights to to vacation is other Arab countries and vice versa. I don’t see them flying back to New York. (I mean why NY).
    I could be wrong. I personally think Israel is in for the long haul.

    Colin in general makes some remarkable observations.

  161. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Jewish scapegoating is always a moving target and always always a cover for what and who are really the destroyers.

    “Jewish PROJECTION is always a moving target and always always a cover for what and who are really the destroyers.”

    FIFY

  162. @Fran Taubman

    Imagine a country where practicing Islam is treated as a crime. Where using the everyday greeting of “As-salaam alaikum” is punished. A place so repressive that even listening to a religious sermon at a mosque or reciting a funeral prayer from the Quran in your home can land you in jail. A place where crescents are removed from burial sites, Qurans and prayer mats are confiscated, and mosques are destroyed. A country that bans parents and teachers from introducing religion to children, even at home.

    https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/02/25/chinas-treatment-muslims-defining-moment-organization-islamic-cooperation

    Dang. Those Israeli monsters. Are you aware of any of the above? About the way the Chinese treats it’s Muslim populations? And they don’t let people come into China to look around. This info was leaked out with a photo montage, putting people in danger.

  163. a.z says:
    @anarchyst

    sorry for the late reply, i don’t believe in abrogation when it comes to the any verse of the sacred text of quran and have doubt about the veracity of believers who do and let me tell u the reason.
    we believe our god is omnipotent and know all that is happening and will happen in perfect detail, and its kinda simple such a god does not need to abrogate specific verses as circumstances change and new issues develop.
    as such for example when violence is sanctioned it is to deal with specific situation because of specific action taken by people who meant to do harm and those verses are applicable whenever those situations arise but otherwise isalm always calls for peaceful coexistence

  164. anarchyst says:
    @Colin Wright

    We don’t want ((them)) here…

  165. ‘We don’t want ((them)) here…’

    I’m inclined to agree, but…

    (((They))) have to go somewhere. More than any other nation, we bear responsibility for Israel’s crimes, so it’s here they should come.

    They’ll be our penance.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  166. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    They also need anti-Semitism. The entire Zionist project would be sunk without it. Theodor Herzl watched the entire Dreyfus kerfuffle and concluded that Gentiles just could not help hating Jews. Yet another Jew watched the whole affair and concluded that the French were not so anti-Semitic. The French state and society nearly tore itself apart over the guilt or innocence of a Jewish army officer.

    • Agree: Art
  167. ‘They also need anti-Semitism. The entire Zionist project would be sunk without it…’

    No offense (which for once is being uttered in absolute sincerity) but I think you’re retreating to a sophism in order to avoid some unpleasant conclusions.

    Israel needed antisemitism. Without that most flamboyant exhibition of antisemitism of all time, Nazism, it never could have become a state.

    But once established, what Israel needs is not anti-semitism, but on the contrary, philo-semitism. People have to remain blind to the extent to which Israel manipulates the world in general and the United States in particular so that she can endure in spite of her crimes and in spite of her intrinsic lack of viability.

    Ant-semitism may have created Israel, but now, paradoxically, it is in a sense anti-semitism (the realization of the true extent of Israel’s evil and of her pernicious influence) that will destroy her.

    One needs to work to destroy Israel — and not pull any punches for fear of being labeled an ‘anti-semite.’ If you can do that and remain devoid of any hostility towards Jews in general, great — but you can’t let fear of an overlap lead you to tolerate manifest evil.

    I mistrust loose pit bulls around small children. That may be unfair to some very nice pit bulls, but it’s better than the odd mangled child. If Jews don’t want to be associated with Israel’s crimes, they’re free to disassociate themselves from Israel.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Wielgus
  168. @Colin Wright

    As conditions become less favorable for Israel, increasing numbers of Jews will leave. Even now — with massive subsidies and physical and moral support from the US — forty percent of all Jews in Israel say they would emigrate if only they could.

    What conditions? The world is clamoring to do business with Israel. The Arab threat is null. I have not seen any UN resolutions against Israel. The Palestinians are reduced to making deals with the Israeli right. The PA is more corrupt and less popular. Them there is Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran.
    You said hate keeps Israel together. Lot’s of violence, hate, and life threatening Jew hatred with those groups.
    What conditions are you referring to? Many Jews may want to leave. But many more are immigrating from Europe etc.
    AS does not think Israel is folding, which would be like a surrender. Most Jews and Christians around the world view the disappearance of Israel as life threatening.
    You are a tad uninformed about Israel. And (((them))). Plenty hatred here on UR alone to keep (((them))) safe.

    • Replies: @Iris
  169. Iris says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Most Jews and Christians….

    There are no Christians, nowhere in the world, who give two hoots about Israel, none except for the newly-bred American Zionist imbeciles.

    Even those will soon have much bigger fish to fry, considering the mess that will break up in America for having foolishly overstretched its imperialistic capabilities under the Zionist yoke, instead of looking after its people and planning for a productive future.

    As for the Catholics and Orthodox, who between them make over 60% of 2.5 billion Christians worldwide, they actually want Israel gone, since the Zionist entity was not even smart enough to respect their churches and avoid alienating them.

    Supremacist Israel as it stands today will be gone in ten years. May God give you a long life; you will see it happening with your own eyes.

  170. @Iris

    I have to admit that, to me, this is a novel perspective.

    While I’d like to witness the removal from the Muslim world of the deleterious American presence, and agree that a coalition of nations which includes China may be able to affect this in the coming years, I don’t have any confidence that Chinese influence will prove to be a superior one.

    First of all, let me say that I acknowledge the role of Zionists in exploiting a faction of Uighur expatriates to meet their own objectives. I also acknowledge that particular reports about some human rights violations there have been shown to be unreliable.

    That said, China is hardly an open society, a reality to which many of the Han majority themselves fully attest. As such, it’s been very difficult to impossible for journalists to independently corroborate the thousands of Uighur testimonies concerning Chinese abuses there. There are some sites independent of Zionist influence, however, that merit attention:

    https://shahit.biz/eng/#evidence

    Now, in my opinion, it’s a bit ridiculous to aver that all of these witnesses are fabricating or exaggerating their testimony.

    Wang Yi, of course, is also going to paper this over: “Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.” So as much as I’d like to think that China might bring about a change for the better in the Middle East, their talk of a two-state solution reminds me of American politicians who, with forked tongue, advocate the very same while doing nothing to compel Israel’s compliance with international law.

  171. ‘…So as much as I’d like to think that China might bring about a change for the better in the Middle East, their talk of a two-state solution reminds me of American politicians who, with forked tongue, advocate the very same while doing nothing to compel Israel’s compliance with international law.’

    Yeah, but

    China, unlike the US, is not dominated by Zionist Jews. The implication is that that cynical or idealistic, China’s decisions will be made without undue concern for Israel’s needs or demands in particular. A Chinese hegemon will look, say, at Israeli assassinations in Iran and say, ‘Israel is a rogue state. Perhaps we should help her neighbors to suppress it.’

    If China replaces the US as the dominant power in the Middle East, it won’t be Springtime for Hitler anymore. Given the contradictions inherent in her very existence, it should be the end for Israel in short order.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @AnonStarter
  172. anarchyst says:
    @Colin Wright

    Actually the jewish diaspora could be put on ships, not unlike in the movie “Waterworld” in which the Exxon Valdez became a floating city. Cargo ships could be fitted for such a purpose.
    Putting the jews on ships just as this and resupplying them at no cost to ((them)) from time to time would be a small price to pay for the world to be rid of them. This would be one sure way to keep them from running and spreading their criminal enterprises.
    Of course, they would not be permitted any landing privileges and would be exiled permanently at sea.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  173. ‘Putting the jews on ships just as this and resupplying them at no cost to ((them)) from time to time would be a small price to pay for the world to be rid of them. This would be one sure way to keep them from running and spreading their criminal enterprises.
    Of course, they would not be permitted any landing privileges and would be exiled permanently at sea.’

    That wins points for novelty — and if indeed there were ‘a land without a people for a people without a land’ I wouldn’t be averse to requiring Jews to move there if they were disinclined to accept restrictions on their behavior.

    However, the most awkward thing about Jews is that the advocates of Israel are the worst of the breed. Overall, as individuals, they’re not bad. They have their tendencies, but as individuals, those aren’t really any better or worse than the tendencies of individuals from any other group. So frigging what if Jews are inclined to be critical of the established order? So am I — but no, you can’t stick me on a cruise ship for eternity.

    It’s just that as a collective, allowed to rise to dominance, those tendencies become a problem. And — however unpleasant the prospect — that has to be addressed somehow. Having perceived the truth of this, I wish it were otherwise, but it isn’t, and I’m disinclined to pretend the elephant in the room isn’t there.

  174. @Colin Wright

    A bug in the system queued my first response to this post immediately after yours without a backlink. Just in case you didn’t catch it:

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/when-islam-and-judaism-make-friends/#comment-4582296

  175. @AnonStarter

    ‘…The most recent polling shows the numbers are gradually shifting in favor of Palestinians. This is occurring in spite of every effort to silence pro-Palestinian activism through anti-BDS legislation, internet censorship, and the usual strong-arm intimidation tactics.’

    Those numbers are good — but above all, they demonstrate the difficulty of making significant progress in the face of the Zionist hammerlock on the US media, political system, and Evangelical Christian community.

    It’s depressing, but I suspect freedom for Palestine comes not through a change of heart in America, but through a deterioration in our international status.

    When we have all the influence Brazil does, then it won’t matter what we think. Israel will be fucked.

    • Agree: Iris
  176. @Colin Wright

    China, unlike the US, is not dominated by Zionist Jews. The implication is that that cynical or idealistic, China’s decisions will be made without undue concern for Israel’s needs or demands in particular. A Chinese hegemon will look, say, at Israeli assassinations in Iran and say, ‘Israel is a rogue state. Perhaps we should help her neighbors to suppress it.’

    If China replaces the US as the dominant power in the Middle East, it won’t be Springtime for Hitler anymore. Given the contradictions inherent in her very existence, it should be the end for Israel in short order.


    One needs to work to destroy Israel — and not pull any punches for fear of being labeled an ‘anti-semite.’ If you can do that and remain devoid of any hostility towards Jews in general, great — but you can’t let fear of an overlap lead you to tolerate manifest evil.

    LOL, LOL, LOL!! You really think that China is going to side with the Palestinians over Israel. If there is one thing the Chinese cherish it is technology and infrastructure. It is like the air they breath. They may give lip service to the Palestinian, but when it comes to the Chinese Belt and Road initiative. Their silk road fantasy. Israel is their natural ally in achieving their main goal of connecting China to the Middle East, Africa and the rest of the world. I do not know whether to laugh or feel sorry for you Colin. You are more clueless then Iris ( and her theory on the nuking of the World Trade Towers minus the airplanes, which is really saying something. ) Israel is a world powerhouse. It is not going anywhere.

    China has such a hard on for Israeli technology and investment in infrastructure. The relationship has forced the US to insist the romance come to a complete halt. Israel must choose between the US or China. The hot relationship between China and Israel is of such concern. The thought that China might take over as the main world super power, the Rand Corporation was commissioned to to a research project on it.

    Here are some excerpts. Israel is ranked #5 in the world in technology, innovation and research.

    #5
    Israel has become a global technological and entrepreneurial powerhouse. The recent Bloomberg Innovation Index, an annual ranking of countries that measures performance in research and development, technology education, patents and other marks of technological prowess, listed Israel at #5 in the world.

    From Rand:

    China’s receptive and friendly embrace of the Jewish people on its soil has been one of affectionate sympathy as the Chinese have developed a favorable view of Jews, admiring them for their contributions to humanity, their ability to survive, the sharing of Chinese values such as family, frugality, hard work, and education, and being products of ancient civilizations have been an impetus towards the long and enduring friendship between the Chinese and Jewish peoples.[14][34][35] Shared affinities and similar cultural commonalities has not only been an impetus for the close bonds between China and Israel but has also created a symbol of brotherhood between the two communities.[13][36]

    On the technology front, Israel is particularly attractive for Chinese investment because of its reputation as a “start-up nation.” China views Israel as a model for quickly creating an innovation hub, which matches well with China’s goal of developing its own indigenous innovation capabilities.5 Moreover, Chinese investors face fewer barriers in Israel compared with markets in the United States and other advanced economies, helping Chinese companies diversify their investments.

    How Israel Fits in with China’s Policy Goals
    Compared with other countries that receive Chinese investment, Israel is unique, as it aligns with the BRI as well as with Chinese goals to improve its domestic high-tech sector. This combination means that the Chinese government incentivizes companies to engage in both construction and technology investments in Israel. Moreover, engage- ment with Israel advances China’s broader, long-term goals of increas- ing its presence and role in the Middle East and connecting to Europe.
    The BRI is a major part of China’s push in the Middle East, where China seeks to sustain friendships with all governments in the region,

    Chinese companies have been increasingly active in Israel in terms of both investment and construction. We utilized and expanded upon a dataset of 92 business deals in Israel by Chinese companies between 2011 and 2018 (87 investments and five construction projects).18 Between 2011 and 2018, Israel’s technology sector received the most Chinese investment, both in terms of monetary value ($5.7 billion) and number of companies (54 of the 87 investments reviewed). This list is not necessarily exhaustive, as data on Chinese investment in Israel are not collected systematically.
    We examined the key Chinese companies known to have invested in Israeli technology or to have built infrastructure in Israel during this time period, and identified 11 that raise potential concerns for Israel or the United States. These concerns include connections with the Chinese military or government; issues related to security, privacy, and censor- ship; and business activities involving Israel’s adversaries, such as Iran. A key concern is the nature of the ties that Chinese companies investing or building major infrastructure projects in Israel have with Chines

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  177. @anarchyst

    Putting the jews on ships just as this and resupplying them at no cost to ((them)) from time to time would be a small price to pay for the world to be rid of them. This would be one sure way to keep them from running and spreading their criminal enterprises.
    Of course, they would not be permitted any landing privileges and would be exiled permanently at sea.

    I would love to live permanently at sea. Where do I sign up? Can the dogs come? Are all expenses paid? Oh to be an idiotic commentator on UR. There really is nothing like it.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  178. The insurmountable obstacle is the Judeofascist, Zionazi, Talmudist Right in Israel and the Diaspora. They hate Palestinians, Arabs, Moslems, all non-groveling goyim, and ‘self-hating Jews’ who do not share their genocidal hatred and rage. With 3500 years of hatred.

  179. @Fran Taubman

    ‘LOL, LOL, LOL!! ‘

    Good, Fran. I want you to feel confident about the course you’re pursuing.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  180. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    It seems to me that creating philo-Semitism is less important to the Zionist project than ever. In the 1960s and maybe 1970s they or their cheerleaders could get away with trying to present Israel as a light unto the Gentiles etc. but more recently this is far more difficult. So it depends far more on corrupt influence peddling and seeking to undermine powerful critics with the anti-Semitism canard. We have had a president of Israel convicted of rape even in an Israeli court, and Netanyahu is constantly one step ahead of going to jail. None of this is exactly inspiring.

    I notice even our lovely Fran Taubman does not really try to present Israel as wonderful. What she is more likely to do is attempt diversionary tactics, like seeking to draw attention to how bad Muslims allegedly are.

  181. @Colin Wright

    If China replaces the US as the dominant power in the Middle East, it won’t be Springtime for Hitler anymore. Given the contradictions inherent in her very existence, it should be the end for Israel in short order.

    Let me just repeat the stupidity of what you wrote and the insanity that you repeatedly spew that Israel will BE GONE IN SHORT ORDER. And GO OUT WITH A WHIMPER. And double Lol! Lol! Lol, and add another Lol. Do you also think the WTT was blown up by nukes?
    Go have a coffee with Iris

    [MORE]

  182. anarchyst says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Ha ha Frannie…enjoy your cruise…

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  183. @Wielgus

    I notice even our lovely Fran Taubman does not really try to present Israel as wonderful. What she is more likely to do is attempt diversionary tactics, like seeking to draw attention to how bad Muslims allegedly are.

    Nope. I do not draw attention to how bad Muslims are. Or how wonderful Israelis are. Because neither is true. My point has been that all peoples are the same. The same. The Jews no better or worse than the Muslims. After WW2, the Jewish survivors were deranged and beastly. They would have torn enemies apart with their bare hands to create an independent state. They were not nice people. No worse than the North burning the South after the civil war. Brutality breeds brutality.

    I only disparage the Muslims when those on this website speak about how wonderful they are and how victimized they are by the Jews who have caused them to do heinous things like blow themselves up.

    Most of the world views the Muslims and Islam problematic and troubled independently of the Jews and Israel. They are not victims but aggressors. That is the way I see it. Islam just caught the Jews at a bad time to pick a fight with. After the Holocaust anyone picking a fight with the Jews is going to lose. Iran should take care not to keep threatening Israel with vanquishing. Can you think of a more stupid idea. Threatening Israel is akin to threatening the world as a whole. The world will not stand by and let that happen. A lot of Islam was disappointed that Hitler did not succeed. They backed the Germans.

    When Israel went into Iran to kill those scientist the entire electrical grid of a vast region in Iran was disabled. That is what kind of technology Israel has without firing a rocket.

    Enemies of the Jews should take heed. Despite what Colin says the Jews will never go down. That is just who they are at this particular time in history. Not always true. The Jews used to be quite passive and frightened of their enemies. They used to go down like little sheep to slaughter. Not any more. Israel has weapons the world has know idea about. They can shut down a country before they can return fire. They have the most technologically advanced subs ever that civilians are not aware of created with the Germans. People on UR are not just ignorant but stupid to think the Jews will let themselves be subjected to another Holocaust. Not happening. People are just plain nuts to think otherwise.

    Every Jew in the world knows intrinsically that that they will never be safe if Israel goes down. And we all agree that the Jews have the technology to defend themselves.

    Look for another people’s to set up for for scheming like the Chinese, who are planing to replace the US dollar with a digital currency. Not even the Jews could achieve that.

    Blaming the evil Jews is so yesteryear. So tiresome outdated. Like iceberg lettuce.

  184. @Wielgus

    ‘I notice even our lovely Fran Taubman does not really try to present Israel as wonderful. What she is more likely to do is attempt diversionary tactics, like seeking to draw attention to how bad Muslims allegedly are.’

    That is exactly Israel’s mistake. If one goes back fifty years, in a sense Israel was much more secure. It was the era when students had posters of Moshe Dayan on their walls, and Golda Meir was Israel’s woman prime minister, and Abba Eban was regretfully wagging his head about how ‘the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.’

    Israel was ‘one of us,’ and outside of the Arab world, her ‘right to exist’ was essentially unquestioned. She was secure because she was loved. I can remember how I thought of her then. You can still see it in casual references from the era. Brave little Israel. The light in the darkness.

    Now, she is secure because you’ll be politically dead if you dare to criticize. That gives her a certain superficial security — but if and when she slips, the mob is going to tear her limb from limb and no one will come to her aid.

    So let her triumphantly kvell. Let her openly destroy any Western politician who dares to criticize her. Let her literally wage war on any hapless neighbor she chooses.

    She’s only digging her own grave. She’s a state of seven million intruders, sitting in a strip of semi-desert half the size of a Texas county, totally dependent upon outside support — and she’s making herself universally hated.

    You go, girl.

    • Agree: Wielgus, Iris
    • Replies: @Wielgus
  185. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…Enemies of the Jews should take heed. Despite what Colin says the Jews will never go down… ‘

    You tell ’em. Fran! Stand proud, stand tall! You don’t need nobody…

    Rwwrra! Let’s hear your war cry!

  186. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    The pre-Likud and pre-Begin Israel was probably at least as vile as what came later, but its public relations were better. So was its plausible deniability. It could just about get away with the Liberty attack by presenting it as a mistake. Sabra and Chatila, though… Nobody would believe that turning loose Falangist allies on Palestinian civilians could result in anything other than a massacre.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  187. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…They would have torn enemies apart with their bare hands to create an independent state…’

    Actually, they had to be sent to Palestine more or less by fraud. When ‘displaced persons’ were interviewed to find out where they wanted to go, the Zionists made sure the only ones who were interviewed were those who wanted to go to Palestine. When Britain and America came up with a plan to resettle a million in the US and the Commonwealth, the Zionists in the US made sure that one was quashed, pronto.

    …and let’s not even get into the shenanigans when it came to the ‘Mizrahi.’

    ‘Israel’ was a lie from the start — not merely an evil, but a spectacularly unnecessary evil.

    Few wanted to go there. You haven’t, have you, Fran?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  188. @Colin Wright

    Few wanted to go there. You haven’t, have you, Fran?

    Making plans most of my family have moved there. I have switched from metal to 3d printing in the hopes of being able to do that there. But it is hard to move there at my age. I took care of my mother who passed 3 years ago, and since the Pandemic have not been able to make any plans to ever visit. Unless I could retire and I am not in a position to do that. I am a self supporting artist. It is a miracle that I can to that here in the US. Tricky to move and have my clients still buy my work. Shipping from Israel? But you do not really care if I move to Israel do you Colin? Your story about the Jews and Zionism is so made up and factious, devoid of any truth or accountability of what happened to the Jews, blaming them for the for not being Christian or Muslim. Who cares what you think? Like nine people in there world think like you do and they are all here on UR. A lonely voice in the middle of a sea of support for the Jews and Israel. I mean let’s start with your claim that China is going to all out declare the Jews illegal and champion the Palestinians. Maybe 3 people think that not even nine. Maybe you Iris and one other dope here on UR. The Chinese, the Hindu, most of Christian Europe are sick of the Palestinians and the Muslims way more than the Jews. That is just a fact, even if they tell you otherwise. Trust me the Hindus would come fight along side the Jews against the Muslims.

    Actually, they had to be sent to Palestine more or less by fraud. When ‘displaced persons’ were interviewed to find out where they wanted to go, the Zionists made sure the only ones who were interviewed were those who wanted to go to Palestine. When Britain and America came up with a plan to resettle a million in the US and the Commonwealth, the Zionists in the US made sure that one was quashed, pronto

    Another stupid lie. My parents sponsored cousins survivors living in DP camps. tnThey lived their lives in the US until they recently passed. You are so full of shit.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  189. @Colin Wright

    If China replaces the US as the dominant power in the Middle East, it won’t be Springtime for Hitler anymore. Given the contradictions inherent in her very existence, it should be the end for Israel in short order.

    There’s undeniable good sense in what you say.

    And Wang Yi’s interview with al-Arabiya is the nature of diplomacy. Perhaps we’re looking too far down the road at this point, perhaps not. The fact that China refuses to let its workers do business in the Occupied Territories is most welcome, though it continues to partner with Israel in numerous other industrial and educational enterprises. (Playing it close to the vest?)

    One of my primary concerns is how relations with the Uighur population will play out. Some may perceive China’s current approach as a harsh, but necessary kind of political realism, though it appears myopic to administer the kind of collective punishment it does, providing cause for the cultivation of militant insurrection that Zionists will surely labor to exploit in order to pit America(-backed insurgents) against China.

    Looks as if we’ll just have to wait and see how it all goes down — provided we’re still around to see it.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  190. Actually, they had to be sent to Palestine more or less by fraud. When ‘displaced persons’ were interviewed to find out where they wanted to go, the Zionists made sure the only ones who were interviewed were those who wanted to go to Palestine. When Britain and America came up with a plan to resettle a million in the US and the Commonwealth, the Zionists in the US made sure that one was quashed, pronto.

    As I mentioned earlier my parents and family sponsored 2 married cousins from DP camps in Poland. You could use a refresher course on what the current support for Zionism is all about.
    These cousins are the Diamonds. They were from Senkevichevka, Ukraine. This ghetto was liquidated early on during the war. No one was shipped off to camps. They were shot in the fields. My cousins escaped and were hidden by Christian Poles. They ran out the back door, the rest of their family were killed on the same day as they fled. The Christian families that hid Jews can attest to this. I met them and they remained close to the Diamonds. You should read about this Ghetto liquidation. It was one of the few documented with photos. Look it up.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizoch_Ghetto

    These are the Zionist of today. The children and grand children of these survivors. Who now live in Israel. They are not leaving. They moved from the US to Israel.

    78 years ago 2nd day Chol Chol Hamoed Sukkot, the Nazis “liquidated” the ghetto in Senkevichevka, Ukraine. Among those murdered are listed below by my cousins son. These Jews were murdered in one day. All shot.


    My mother’s grandfather, Moshe Dovid Fine (age 80)
    My mother’s father, Avrohom Beitsch (age 57)
    My mother’s sister, Molly Beitsch (age 18)
    My mother’s aunt & uncle, Sara Fine Wollich (age 51) and Yosef Wollich (age 55)
    My mother’s first cousin, Cheike Wollich Chechman (age 32), her husband Mendel Chechman, and their daughter Devora Chechman (age 7)
    My mother’s aunt, Baila Fine (age 45)
    My father’s parents Avrohom Tzvi Diamant (age 65) and Tzivia Suttleman Diamant (age 54)
    My father’s sister and brother-in-law Kreina Diamant Mazurik (age 26) and David Mazurik
    My father’s niece Rivka Mazurik (age 5)
    My father’s brother Shlomo Diamant (age 14)

    These survivors children and grandchildren are the Zionist you think run the world. None of these people ran the world. The lived moved to a country where they did not speak the language or had any government help. They started businesses, had families and that was the extent of their power. They thrived under very difficult circumstances. Just to humanize this a little bit from you’re wild accusations about Zionist. These people are kind and loving. They are not evil. They lived in American but were Zionist. They were huge financial supporters of Israel. That is and was their perrogative.

    131946805_10214608622048543_4985602391578827005_n
    131766084_10214608624328600_331120297962712808_n

  191. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…Another stupid lie. My parents sponsored cousins survivors living in DP camps. tnThey lived their lives in the US until they recently passed. You are so full of shit.’

    My, Fran. What would your mother say?

  192. @AnonStarter

    ‘…And Wang Yi’s interview with al-Arabiya is the nature of diplomacy. Perhaps we’re looking too far down the road at this point, perhaps not. The fact that China refuses to let its workers do business in the Occupied Territories is most welcome, though it continues to partner with Israel in numerous other industrial and educational enterprises. (Playing it close to the vest?)…’

    Well, Israel is still an excellent conduit for US technology that’s otherwise unavailable to China. Israel steals it, sells it to China.

    But one way or another, that won’t last. China will catch up to us, we’ll get sick of Israel spying on us — it’s not a permanent situation.

    And when it ends, is Israel going to be worth it to China? She just signed a twenty five year pact with Iran: Chinese investment for a discount on Iranian oil. What happens when Israel stages another terrorist attack in Iran?

  193. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… You could use a refresher course on what the current support for Zionism is all about.
    These cousins are the Diamonds. They were from Senkevichevka, Ukraine. This ghetto was liquidated early on during the war…’

    About five million Jews were killed because they were Jews.

    Nu?

    Roughly six million ethnic Germans died: about half civilians.

    Three million Gentile Poles, mostly civilians.

    Approximately thirty million Gentile Russians — figures vary. Again, about half civilians.

    Some astronomical number of Chinese — ten million? Twenty million?

    A million Iranians — the Russians made off with the 1943 wheat harvest.

    Three million Indians — no rice from Bengal.

    Some catastrophic number of Serbs.

    Things were tough all over.

  194. @Colin Wright

    yes but those people all had countries to return to with plans for rebuilding. The Jews could not return to their countries. They could not. They had to have country of their own. From that time forward. Complete separation from Christian Europe. It did not start with the Holocaust. It was a situation that started with the murder of Jesus by the Jews. That was the mantra after the war. Most Jews wanted out of Europe. Just look at the pre war post war population figures of European countries like Poland. Countries really did not want them back.
    Nu?
    Countries also changed ownership. Parts of Poland became Lithuania or the Ukraine. It was pretty confusing. Many people could not return to their original countries.

  195. Iris says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You parents look like endearing and loving people; the loss of your family, especially the little ones, is the type of senseless tragedies that makes one’s faith in God vacillate, may He forgive me.

    Why don’t you do them all justice by adhering to universal ethics?

    Stop supporting the Zionist warmongers who deliberately and actively brought WW2 into being.

    Stop supporting the IDF who daily shoots Palestinian children the way WW2 executioners shot your family.

    Stop supporting genocidal Israel who tortures the entire Gaza population as another Mizoch ghetto.

    Stop supporting the Big Zionist psychopaths who murdered in cold blood 3000 of your fellow American countrymen in a nuclear Holocaust so they could achieve their demented geopolitical agenda.

    Join humankind.

  196. @Colin Wright

    For ‘Bengal’ read ‘Burma.’

  197. @Fran Taubman

    ‘yes but those people all had countries to return to with plans for rebuilding. The Jews could not return to their countries…’

    Actually, in many cases, they could, and did.

    In others, as noted, they might have preferred to go to the US, Canada, Australia, et al — but the Zionists headed that one off.

    In any case, how does any of that entitle them to take Palestine from the Palestinians?

    I’ve realized I’m Poodleless — I’ll take one of your’s, shall I? Sounds moral to me…

  198. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…yes but those people all had countries to return to with plans for rebuilding. The Jews could not return to their countries. They could not. They had to have country of their own. From that time forward. Complete separation from Christian Europe…’

    Hence the continuing Jewish populations in Russia, the Ukraine, Italy, France, Portugal, Belgium, Holland, Great Britain, and Germany (!)

    ‘From that time forward, complete separation from Christian Europe.’ How can you be such an idiot?

    Hell, most of the secret police apparatus in post-war Poland was Jewish. Look it up.

    And in any case, how would any of that confer a title to Palestine? The Rohingya have been driven from Burma. They have not thereby acquired title to Long Island.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  199. Stop supporting the IDF who daily shoots Palestinian children the way WW2 executioners shot your family.

    This is just a lie a flat out lie. The IDF does not shoot or execute Palestinian children. You are full of such delusions. Look at the statistics.

    I am very human, and apart of humanity for the good. Stop lying about Zionist and Israeli.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  200. @Colin Wright

    Hell, most of the secret police apparatus in post-war Poland was Jewish. Look it up.

    Another propaganda lie. 90% of the Jews in Poland were wiped out. I did however here that the head of the secret police in East Germany was a Jew. Not great. But not in Poland

    Żydokomuna ([ʐɨdɔkɔˈmuna], Polish for “Judeo-Communism”)[1] is an anti-communist[2] and antisemitic canard[3][4] or a pejorative stereotype[5][6] suggesting that most Jews collaborated with the Soviet Union in importing communism into Poland, or that there was an exclusively Jewish conspiracy to do so.[7][8][5] A Polish language term for “Jewish Bolshevism”, or more literally “Jewish communism”,[9] Żydokomuna is related to the “Jewish world conspiracy” myth.[10][3]

    The idea originated as anti-communist propaganda at the time of the Polish–Soviet War (1919–1920)[11]:227-228[12]:90 and continued through the interwar period.[10]:69[12]:89[13]:19-20 It was based on longstanding antisemitic attitudes,[10][14][12][15][16] coupled with a historical fear of Russia.[10]:63[15]:140-141[6]:95 Most of Poland’s Jews supported the Piłsudski-controlled government,[17] but after his death in 1935, rising levels of popular and state antisemitism pushed a small minority, several thousand at most,[11] into participating in, or supporting, communist politics, which were relatively more welcoming to Jews.[18][19] This was seized upon and inflated by antisemites.[7][18][20][10]

    With the Soviet invasion of Poland and Stalin’s 1939 occupation in eastern Poland, the Soviets used privileges and punishments to encourage ethnic and religious differences between Jews and Poles, characterized by Jan Gross as “the institutionalization of resentment.”[21] The stereotype was also reinforced because, as noted by Jaff Schatz, “people of Jewish origin constituted a substantial part of the Polish communist movement”, even though “Communist ideals and the movement itself enjoyed only very limited support” among Polish Jews.[6]

    A growing Polish embrace of the antisemitic stereotype of Jews as communist traitors erupted into mass murder when Nazi Germany invaded Soviet eastern Poland in July 1941.[22] The stereotype endured into postwar Poland because Polish anti-communists saw Poland’s Soviet-controlled communist government as the fruition of prewar communist anti-Polish agitation and associated it with the Soviets’ appointment of Jews to positions of responsibility in the Polish government.[23][24][25] It was also reinforced by the prominent role of a small number of Jews in Poland’s Stalinist regime.[23] Michael C. Steinlauf noted that Jewish communists, despite their small number, have gained a notorious reputation in Poland, “believed to have masterminded the enslavement [of that country]” and became “demonized” as part of the Żydokomuna canard.[26]

    And in any case, how would any of that confer a title to Palestine? The Rohingya have been driven from Burma. They have not thereby acquired title to Long Island.

    If the Rohingya owned land in Long Island, like the Jews did in Palestine they are more than welcome to move there. No one can stop them. Zionism started long before ww2. There was a sizable Jewish community and infrastructure. After the war the Jews wanted an independent state. A division. Did not go over so well. Wars ensued and the rest is history. I don’t think the Rohingya to Long Island compared to the Jews of Palestine is an apples to apples comparison. But nothing you say makes any real sense in terms of the way history played out Israeli independence. It is a moot point. You should refocus your thoughts on some other story. Getting your panties in a twist over Israel is a waste of time.

  201. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…These people are kind and loving. They are not evil…’

    Ditto for most supporters of Hitler. That didn’t make Nazism just fine, and neither does the identity of Zionists demonstrate that Israel is defensible.

  202. @Fran Taubman

    ‘This is just a lie a flat out lie. The IDF does not shoot or execute Palestinian children. You are full of such delusions. Look at the statistics…’

    Okay, Fran. Let’s look at the statistics, shall we? ‘At least 2172’ Palestinian children murdered by the IDF since 2000.

    https://ifamericansknew.org/stat/children.html

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  203. @Fran Taubman

    ‘If the Rohingya owned land in Long Island, like the Jews did in Palestine they are more than welcome to move there…’

    …and be awarded half of it, and then take the other half.

    Oh yeah, and expel you, Fran. And shoot your poodles.

    Sauce for the goose and all that.

  204. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…as noted by Jaff Schatz, “people of Jewish origin constituted a substantial part of the Polish communist movement”, even though “Communist ideals and the movement itself enjoyed only very limited support” among Polish Jews.[6]

    A growing Polish embrace of the antisemitic stereotype of Jews as communist traitors erupted into mass murder when Nazi Germany invaded Soviet eastern Poland in July 1941.[22] The stereotype endured into postwar Poland because Polish anti-communists saw Poland’s Soviet-controlled communist government as the fruition of prewar communist anti-Polish agitation and associated it with the Soviets’ appointment of Jews to positions of responsibility in the Polish government.[23][24][25] It was also reinforced by the prominent role of a small number of Jews in Poland’s Stalinist regime.[23] Michael C. Steinlauf noted that Jewish communists, despite their small number, have gained a notorious reputation in Poland, “believed to have masterminded the enslavement [of that country]” and became “demonized” as part of the Żydokomuna canard.[26]…’

    You sure you wanted to quote that, Fran?

    Shall we discuss how ‘the antisemitic stereotype of Jews as communist traitors’ arose, Fran?

    We could have a fruitful discussion here. No need to confine it to Poland, either.

    …You see, this is why I follow your posts, Fran. You manage to provide an entre to so many fruitful topics. Without you…

  205. You sure you wanted to quote that, Fran?

    Shall we discuss how ‘the antisemitic stereotype of Jews as communist traitors’ arose, Fran?

    We could have a fruitful discussion here. No need to confine it to Poland, either.

    …You see, this is why I follow your posts, Fran. You manage to provide an entre to so many fruitful topics. Without you…

    I am so happy you follow my posts. I am not interested in going back to Jewish participation in Communist Poland. Your propaganda has been proven false. There is always propaganda going both ways.
    My focus is your insistence that Israel will be gone in short order as soon as the Chinese arrive, or the US stops funding. This is what I challenge. As I explained to you Israel has a vast arsenal of weapons to defend itself. Israel is not going down.

    See the WSJ article. Israel destroyed a functioning nuclear facility inside Iran with an electrical blackout, just yesterday. Israels enemies know that Israel will never accept a nuclear Iran. The world is thankful Israel is taking care of this threat especially the US.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-blames-israel-for-attack-on-nuclear-facility-vows-to-retaliate-11618229993

    Iran on Monday accused Israel of orchestrating an attack on its main nuclear facility that destroyed a number of centrifuges and caused an electricity blackout, at a time when Washington and Tehran are seeking to resume talks over a deal that constrains the Islamic Republic’s potential to produce a nuclear weapon.

    “We both agree that Iran must never possess nuclear weapons,” Mr. Netanyahu said. “I will never allow Iran to obtain the nuclear capability to carry out its genocidal goal of eliminating Israel and Israel will continue to defend itself against Iran’s aggression and terrorism.”

  206. @Colin Wright

    Okay, Fran. Let’s look at the statistics, shall we? ‘At least 2172’ Palestinian children murdered by the IDF since 2000.

    That is a span of 21 years. That is about 100 children a year. More children die in Chicago in 3 months. While every life lost is a tragedy, it is hardly genocide, or out of bounds with an an enemy. Many of these were teenagers posing threats. I would compare that to any other country around the world fighting a terrorist threat by an Islamic regime wanting to kill Jews as a mantra.

    1000 Jews were killed in one year during the second Infatadah after the failure of the Camp David accords.
    All blown up by suicide bombers in pizza parlors.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  207. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…1000 Jews were killed in one year during the second Infatadah after the failure of the Camp David accords.
    All blown up by suicide bombers in pizza parlors.’

    Jeepers. That can’t have done much for pizza sales.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Gilad Atzmon Comments via RSS