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The Jewish world is outraged this morning with Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, who apparently said he believes the crimes of the Holocaust can be forgiven, but not forgotten.

The far-right leader made the comments on Thursday night at a meeting with evangelical pastors in Rio de Janeiro.

“We can forgive, but we cannot forget. That quote is mine. Those that forget their past are sentenced not to have a future,” Bolsonaro said, adding that actions are needed for the Holocaust not to be repeated.

Bolsonaro is probably not the most forgiving person around. He freely spews misogynistic, anti-LGBTQ, and racist statements. However, he is a devout Christian and forgiveness is central to Christianity of all denominations. Forgiveness is not an ‘option’ as far as Christianity is concerned, it is actually a must. Forgiveness in Christianity is a manifestation of submission to Christ. “For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.” (Matthew 6:14-15).

I guess that those who subscribe to the Old Testament’s ‘eye for an eye’ paradigm see forgiveness as an existential threat or a sign of weakness. Otherwise it is hard to grasp the hostile reaction to Bolsonaro’s statement.

But Israelis have been forgiving the Germans for more than a while. Back in 1953 Israel signed a reparation agreement with the West German Government. According to the Agreement, West Germany was to “compensate” Israel “for losses in Jewish livelihood and property resulting from Nazi persecution.” The legendary Israeli diplomat Abba Eban coined the precious adage ‘there is no business like Shoa business’ in the light of the Israeli-German reparation agreement. Israel was happy to transform Germany’s guilt into hard cash, yet some may argue that forgiveness wasn’t part of the deal. As a matter of fact, more than seven decades after the liberation of Auschwitz, the Brazilian president is singled out by Jewish and Israeli outlets for stating the true meaning of Christian ethics; forgive but don’t forget. Be merciful, however learn not to repeat your past sins.

It is also important to mention that from time to time Israelis and Jewish leaders explore forgiveness when there are clear political or material gains. Back in 2015 we learned from Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu that it was the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haji Amin al-Husseini, who gave Hitler the idea to exterminate the Jews. Needless to mention that Netanyahu’s claim was ludicrous and harshly criticised, but it practically confirmed that within certain political circumstances even Hitler could be vindicated as long as a Palestinian is there to take his place as the ‘ultimate evil.’

ORDER IT NOW

But Netanyahu was neither the first nor the last Israeli to forgive Hitler and the Germans. Back in 2014 we learned about Olim L’Berlin (Ascending to Berlin), a movement of young Israelis returning to the German capital because it was cheaper, cleaner and simply nicer. We would like the believe that Olim LeBerlin enthusiasts must have finally forgiven the Germans and even learned to love their new neighbours as much as they love themselves.

I am obviously not a supporter of the Brazilian president. However, I think that for us who dwell within the borders of the English-speaking empire, forgiveness and Christian values may as well be our last hope. I would have liked to think that president Trump and his dedicated Evangelist vice president Mike Pence take Jesus’s teachings into account when they consider whether to pardon Julian Assange for telling the truth. They should explore Christian mercifulness and reject the barbarian Old Testament vengeance that has made it into the true ugly face of America’s new century.

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy, History • Tags: Brazil, Holocaust, Israel 
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  1. A123 says:

    The Jewish world is outraged this morning with Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, who apparently said he believes the crimes of the Holocaust can be forgiven, but not forgotten.

    The author makes a fairly extreme and unsupported leap from “the comments of a few” extending to the wider “Jewish World”. There is a much more likely explanation.

    Post election coalition building is among the highest leverage moments in the Israeli democratic process. Decisions made in the next few days will have impact lasting for years. It is much more likely that these comments are for ‘internal consumption’ by party loyalists as various factions strive to maximize their influence on the Israeli government that will officially form in a couple of weeks.

    When June comes around we can objectively judge if this speech has created any lasting outrage. Personally, I doubt the speech will even be remembered.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Miggle
  2. If forgiveness is a means to avoid repetition it must be a good thing. For history is repeating itself before our very eyes. In the last hundred years humanity has fought two world wars, and now faces into a third.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

    • Replies: @Miggle
  3. Wally says:

    “Forgiveness” for what?

    Germany did nothing like what is claimed by Zionists, Germany did nothing like what the Allies did.

    Basics:

    – The alleged ‘German gas chambers’ were scientifically impossible.
    They did not happen as alleged because they could not.
    There’s ca. 4,000,000 Jews not murdered right there.

    – The alleged mass shootings by the ‘Einsatzgruppen’ of innocent Jews into enormous pits are fictitious as proven by the lack of immense human remains that necessarily would exist and are claimed to exist in supposedly known locations which in fact do not exist.
    That’s another alleged ca. 2,000,000 Jews not murdered right there.

    – And the entire Big Lie is further exposed when you consider that another ‘5,000,000 others’ are all supposed to have been murdered in the same way. Which is actually just a form of vote buying by Zionists.

    ‘O, what a tangled web they weave when first they practise to deceive’.

    Revisionists bring life affirming good news, Jews and others should be elated.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @luke2236
  4. ia says:

    I used to hang out at PJMedia. Once a Jewish writer told of his recent trip to see the remains of a WWII concentration camp. He met a young German couple. They seemed to feel some sort of compassion for the Jewish writer’s sense of loss. They kindly invited him to their house for refreshment; where upon he proceeded to bring them to tears excoriating them and all Germans for the crimes of their fathers.

    Raised as a European Christian I was shocked by the tone of the article and subsequent comments. The mostly Jewish commenters took it all in stride. It made an impression on me though. European Christians beware when you are being played by people focused like a laser on their interests, i.e., 3/4 of the planet. I’m not singling out Jews, far from it.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
    , @hosro
  5. Forgiveness is a form of currency FORIEGN to Zionists, they demand blood and gold yet never forgive. To forgive would mean an end to the big Showa and business.

    • Agree: Miggle
  6. Wally says:
    @A123

    Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, who apparently said he believes the crimes of the Holocaust can be forgiven, but not forgotten.

    Correction:
    ‘the alleged crimes of the “holocaust” cannot be proven’.

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

  7. swamped says:

    “I would have liked to think that president Trump and his dedicated Evangelist vice president Mike Pence take Jesus’s teachings into account when they consider whether to pardon Julian Assange for telling the truth”…well seeing as how this awkward construction is in the past perfect subjunctive, apparently that has already been ruled out. Pity, because it is a sensible & uplifting desire. If acted upon it would no doubt make the world a better place, despite the anti-Christian prejudices of the Democratic Party who are eager to lynch Assange. And “dedicated” fake Christians Trump & Pence are in no mood for forgiveness, even at Easter time. More likely they’re preparing to crucify him. So it will fall to Jesus once again, wherever he may be, to do the forgiving. So-called ‘Christians’ aren’t into it anymore, & Jews never were. The ugliness never ends.

  8. Forgiveness is crucial to the passive-aggressive slave morality of the Semitic religions Christianity n Judaism. Without the guilt-ridden passive values of Christianity, Jews would have no hold whatsoever over Europeans, no pretext left for the financial scam of “the Holocaust”.

    Among Democrats in America, Christianity has decomposed back into the Judaism from whence it came, n has been renamed Socialism, which is merely decomposed Christianity controlled by Jews, with nothing left but guilt n self-immolation.

    Among Republicans, Christianity has not yet fully decomposed, but they too are controlled by Jews thanks to the antics of fools like John Hagee n other Christians in the Republican leadership who have somehow convinced themselves that the most important Christian value is to unreservedly support Jews n Israel. This nonsense has led Republicans to endorse walls for Israel even while refusing to endorse walls for their own country, which is just as treasonous as the Dems’ suicidal obsession with open borders.

    Let Christianity decompose. Let it vanish. Then send guilt-manipulating Jews with all their Bernie-talk of “It’s the moral thing to do!” back to where they came from.

    • Replies: @Nonny
  9. But Netanyahu was neither the first nor the last Israeli to forgive Hitler and the Germans. Back in 2014 we learned about Olim L’Berlin (Ascending to Berlin), a movement of young Israelis returning to the German capital because it was cheaper, cleaner and simply nicer. We would like the believe that Olim LeBerlin enthusiasts must have finally forgiven the Germans and even learned to love their new neighbours as much as they love themselves.

    Terribly wrong, they are a hostile force, who live in gated areas and demand multicult for the others. Usually, they have the leftist jewish mindset. This leads to brazen interviews on the “state” TV where a Jew openly states “we are engaging in a big social experiment”.

    They will never forgive, and we will never forget what these jews have done, except they apologize for the lies.

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
  10. Miggle says:

    I am obviously not a supporter of Bolsonaro. He’s all about money. An American puppet for money, an Israeli puppet for money. He has quickly fallen into line and apologized.

    Yet he was expressing Christian values, the values of love and forgiveness. And the furious Jewish response has been an admirable exposure of Jewish values, the values of hate and revenge.

    I hope Bolsonaro’s eye begin to open. I hope the firmly closed eyes of the Christian Zionists begin to open.

    Certainly, the Jewish reaction, plainly evil, will be eye-opening for many. The demise of the Jewish state, the One State Solution, has been brought a few years closer by the Jews making their intrinsic evil manifest to all.

  11. Miggle says:
    @A123

    Total rubbish in every way, A123. There has here been Jewish expression of universal, fundamental Jewish values, hate and revenge, in response to someone expressing the contrary, fundamental Christian value, forgiveness. The reaction definitely belongs to the wider “Jewish World”, which is highly organized. No-one who has read Tony Martin’s The Jewish Onslaught could doubt that for a second.

    And there is no such thing as an Israel democratic process. No closed party list system is democratic, and governments who deny the vote to almost half of those under their rule are not democratic. By dragging in Israeli politics you are saying clearly that while in the 1930s very few Germans were Nazis, today almost all Israelis are Nazis. And you are asserting what you are denying, that the reaction was needed by the wider Israeli World, which is almost totally supported by the wider Jewish World.

    And why do you not want the evil Jewish reaction to be remembered?

  12. Miggle says:
    @peter mcloughlin

    Forgiveness is the best way to avoid repetition. Extending the blame for what the Nazis did to the Germans in general is the best way to ensure remembrance by Germans, but not the kind of remembrance that will assist the Jews long term. If the Jews had almost immediately said, we forgive the perpetrators of the crimes against the Jews, we forgive but don’t forget, the Jews would be widely loved today in a way they are not, and there would be no repetition.

  13. Nonny says:
    @Sin City Milla

    Where did they come from?

    • Replies: @Sin City Milla
  14. Saggy says: • Website

    Atzmon promotes the holohoax. At the same time Barrett says that it’s a ‘myth’ to cover OUR shame.

    These articles seem twisted and degenerate to me, bizarre. I prefer the clarity of the Daily Stormer.

  15. @ia

    Good Samaritans should expect to be punished. No good deed ever goes unpunished. That’s why good deeds should be confined to those you have some connection to and not to random strangers. At least the punishment will be tolerable.

  16. @Germanicus

    Gawd, I feel so sorry for you all. You are in for sheer hell.

  17. bjondo says:

    the crimes of the Holocaust

    The crimes of the holocaust are the crimes
    committed against Palestine, ME, America, Europe, world
    by Yid.

  18. The contentions here about forgiveness is accurate. People of faith are expected to forgive and that is not an optional request/expectation. As some one who remains fairly bitter, I absolutely know, I place my salvation at risk by failing to forgiveness. And bitterness, is out. However, that cannot be used to circumvent defending wrong.

    Ok, so one has not forgiven. That dos not entitle the one responsible for said wrong to a “free pass.”

    In other words, there is no quid pro quo here. Whether one forgives or not, that choice, right or wrong before God does not give permission to the one who did the wrong to get a scott free card. That is the card that the country held over the head of millions of blacks. Let it go because God demands you forgive. Mean while the conditions and behaviors that require forgiveness continue. After all, forgiving presupposes that there is something to forgive.

    ———————–

    Furthermore forgiveness can be a process. It may take some an half second to forgive. And others a lifetime. While my bitterness or forgiveness before God cannot be condoned. It is not a pass to the actors who engaged in lying, stealing, and manufacturing truth. Those wrongs don’t go away,unless requited, merely because of forgiveness.

    I am unclear how else to discuss such a matter without looking inward as is the case with most matters moral or political, etc.

  19. Gilad Atzmon: “Israel was happy to transform Germany’s guilt into hard cash, yet some may argue that forgiveness wasn’t part of the deal.”

    Yes, exactly. Isn’t the Jews’ motto “Never forget, never forgive”? This always struck me as being well-grounded in reality, unlike the Christian view.

    There seems to be a lot of fuzziness surrounding the concept of forgiveness, particularly among Christians. There’s a widespread misconception among them, for example, that the sinner must ask for forgiveness in order to be entitled to receive it. Yet plainly, this can’t be true, since in the Bible Jesus forgives the woman caught in adultery without her having asked for it, and Jesus of course, being God, is incapable of doing anything wrong. Then there’s the idea that Christian forgiveness is contingent upon the sinner not repeating his misbehavior, i.e., “Go and sin no more,” as he tells that woman. But that is contradicted elsewhere, in Matthew 18:21-22:

    21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

    22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

    So it’s clear the admonition to go and sin no more could only have been advisory, and not a condition of forgiveness.

    Still other confused Christians claim that forgiveness is given primarily to help oneself, because otherwise the one sinned against will only torment himself forever with thoughts of vengeance against the sinner. But nowhere in the Bible can I find this view of forgiveness either stated or even implied. It recalls though the contemporaneous view of the Stoics or Epicureans, who aspired to apathy or impassiveness (apatheia or ataraxia) in the face of transgressions against them, so this makes me think it’s probably just an element of pre-Christian culture that present-day Christians are trying to borrow and claim credit for.

    Is forgetting a sin against oneself the same thing as forgiving it? I don’t think so. The two concepts are different. Forgiving seems more of an action, an assertion or restoration of love and trust in the sinner, and if indefinitely repeated after having been betrayed time and again, it resembles masochism more than anything else.

  20. Just a word,

    telling Jews about the forgiveness of Christ is strange fair. The Jews of Israel and all of today reject Christ. If one is going to press the issues of forgiveness concerning Jewish belief the sources are the Torah, Talmudic Tradition and the beliefs and practices of various Jewish communities.

    http://jhvonline.com/forgiveness-a-jewish-value-p10208-220.htm

    https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1619314/jewish/The-Art-of-Forgiveness.htm

    https://www.reconstructingjudaism.org/article/sin-and-forgiveness

  21. “Forgiving seems more of an action, an assertion or restoration of love and trust in the sinner, and if indefinitely repeated after having been betrayed time and again, it resembles masochism more than anything else.”

    Well,

    sometimes it is a process.

    And there’s not much in scripture about this trope of forgiving oneself. There is seeking forgiveness. And what one seeks forgiveness for may not result in immediate secession of the behavior. But what could be a struggle toward resolution.

    And Paul makes notice oh what he called a personal woe, a “thorn in the flesh” that God used to keep him humble.

    Masochism is to a state of one derives pleasure from the pain —

    I don’t that is what is play when anyone struggles with some fault they have yet to overcome.

  22. luke2236 says:
    @Wally

    True. [above]
    And the author obviously knows NOTHING of true Christianity. His quote of Matthew is taken out of context ; it extends to a brother and is talking of relatively minor infractions, NOT about people who want to kill you, rape your wife and eat your dog. The ‘eye for an eye’ is still in effect for civil justice also – remember that Jesus said ‘I came NOT to abolish the Law, but to fulfil it.’ Civil justice and matters of contention between brothers are two different things.
    Remember also that God gives us a list of crimes that are deemed to be worthy of capital punishment, and those include being queer.
    gonna guess the author is jewish…

  23. EliteCommInc: “And there’s not much in scripture about this trope of forgiving oneself. ”

    By saying “Is forgetting a sin against oneself the same thing as forgiving it?” I meant a sin by someone else against oneself. I thought it was clear, as it was the only meaning that occurred to me. Is it even possible to sin against yourself? I’ve never heard of it.

    EliteCommInc: “Masochism is to a state of one derives pleasure from the pain —

    I don’t that is what is play when anyone struggles with some fault they have yet to overcome.”

    Maybe, maybe not. It’s a fine line between masochistic self-flagellation and self-reproach, if there is one. People who “beat themselves up” must derive a kind of pleasure from it, else why would they do it? Christians especially enjoy piquing themselves on their imagined moral superiority. This is what their so-called humility is all about. The paradox is that the more they reproach themselves with their faults, the more virtuous they can feel.

    luke2236: “His quote of Matthew is taken out of context ; it extends to a brother and is talking of relatively minor infractions, NOT about people who want to kill you, rape your wife and eat your dog. ”

    Apparently you mean the quote I gave, not Atzmon’s. What is your proof that it is talking of “relatively minor infractions” only, and not all kinds? Your interpretation is not in the text, that’s for sure.

    luke2236: “… remember that Jesus said ‘I came NOT to abolish the Law, but to fulfil it.’ Civil justice and matters of contention between brothers are two different things.”

    The prescribed punishment for adultery was death by stoning, and yet Jesus spared the adulteress and forgave her.

    You’re like most Christians. It’s obvious you’ve never read the Bible. No wonder you don’t understand it.

  24. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    “Maybe, maybe not. It’s a fine line between masochistic self-flagellation and self-reproach, if there is one. People who “beat themselves up” must derive a kind of pleasure from it, else why would they do it? Christians especially enjoy piquing themselves on their imagined moral superiority. This is what their so-called humility is all about. The paradox is that the more they reproach themselves with their faults, the more virtuous they can feel.

    ——–
    Hmmmmm . . . well. I am just not sure how to respond here.

    I cannot speak for a definitive position on self flagellation being enjoyable. I highly doubt that is the case for most. But struggling to over come a disposition will inevitably include self recriminations. The alcoholic may very well enjoy the drink, but I have never heard one say,

    “And I really enjoy the realization that I have once again stumbled on the matter of drunkenness.”

    Christians by struggle purify themselves or allow God to purify them through the struggle. But I don’t know of anyone who says

    “I enjoy the pain in struggle.”

    Some may, but I must remain where I came in. One goes through pain to accomplish the task of not having to experience said pain a again. The struggle itself suggests pain is not enjoyable. I exercise not because I enjoy pain. But getting through the pain to accomplish something to reduce a greater pain is not masochism. Masochism suggests they enjoy the pain itself, that is in fact the pleasure. Now certainly, there are people who claim to enjoy that. But I am unprepared to relegate everyone who struggles with some failing as a masochist.

    I am unclear where the idea of minor infractions is introduced by me. And I am unclear what the reference to my interpretation refers to – Nor am I clear how it is relevant to our discussion. Scripture says,

    “as far as the east is to the west, so does God remove sins forgiven.”

    that means the sin is nonexistent. And certainly one who has sought and asked forgiveness, need not dwell on that matter more – period. They can of course forget it. The purpose of forgiveness is several fold:

    1. release the offender
    2. release self
    3. reflect the very nature of God and as his gift to believers
    4. demonstrates a trust and faith in God’s leadership and reciprocated faith.
    Agree restoration and a return to wholeness.
    5. But forgiveness is also a reproof . . . https://www.egrc.net/articles/Rock/Puzzling_Passages/BurningCoals.html

    I am not inclined to relegate to some definitive state the process of struggle as mere ploy for self adulation. Certainly there may people who so engage. But there are also plenty of sincere people who wrestle with an issue. And as Paul states, may do for a lifetime. And that may serve them well to remain humble.

    Humility is in my view, not taking honor or minimizing the full scope of honor to power when honor is bestowed and or awarded. And according o scripture, meekness will lead to inheritance.

  25. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    “His quote of Matthew is taken out of context ; it extends to a brother and is talking of relatively minor infractions, NOT about people who want to kill you, rape your wife and eat your dog. ”

    Uhh No. Forgiveness is complete and unconditional expectation. In fact, it is such a heavy demand, Christ died to fulfill its accomplishment and we as believers are expected to follow suit and if unable ask to be empowered by the Holy Spirit to do so. The level of infraction is completely irrelevant.

    And the brother does not have to be literal brother. It is also a general reference for someone else.
    Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:17-21

    https://www.egrc.net/articles/Rock/Puzzling_Passages/BurningCoals.html

    And the law that over rides all others is the law of forgiveness. The Law condemns and the law of forgiveness frees, restores, set matters a’right. Hence the reference to the reciprocal nature of god himself forgive and be forgiven. Be forgiven and forgive. L’est the full weight of the law be put to one’s stead.

    I think this may be the one unforgivable sin —

    MATTHEW 12:31 KJV “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of …
    https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-12-31/

    https://worryisuseless.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/all-sins-will-be-forgiven-except-blasphemy-against-the-holy-spirit/

    For clearly I am rejecting the very essence of God, blaspheming him by not forgiving. I am ever mindful that my own bitterness will be withstood for so long before god himself gives me over to it — that is a precarious place to be.

    But it has that sense of falling on one’s sword. That I am unprepared to do.

    ———————
    Woman at the well

    I do think that that Christ is repeating a demand an expectation of the faithful that they not engage in adultery. It’s not advice. It is a declarative – instruction, a reminder not to engage in this behavior because it is sin.

    There is this rare reference by Paul.

    “Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.” If something is a sin, I think it is safe to say, Christ instructs not to engage it, plan it, consider doing it.

  26. EliteCommInc: “I am unclear where the idea of minor infractions is introduced by me. ”

    It wasn’t. In the latter half of my comment #23 it was commenter “luke2236” I was responding to, and you yourself responded to later, evidently under the impression that his assertions were mine.

    EliteCommInc: “It is a declarative – instruction, a reminder not to engage in this behavior because it is sin.”

    But no doubt also with the tacit understanding that she, being sinful, could very well sin again.

  27. The real question:

    Can we forgive but not forget the Holocau$t Industry?

  28. “It wasn’t. In the latter half of my comment #23 it was commenter “luke2236” I was responding to, and you yourself responded to later, evidently under the impression that his assertions were mine.:

    I did figure it out that you were not talking to me. I missed a line when I edited it. Understood.

    Appreciate it.

    ———————————–

    Clarifying: So we agree that it’s not just advice or it’s both. One of those,

    “I wouldn’t do that again, if you know what I mean,” commands guised as advice/suggestion.

    quibble I suspect

  29. @Nonny

    Good question! Mizrahi Jews are native to the Muslim world. Sephardic Jews native to the Mediterranean area, Spain, n Netherlands. Those two groups don’t have the special genetics of Ashkenazi Jews. Arthur Koestler wrote The Thirteenth Tribe, claiming that Ashkenazi Jews were mostly descended from Turkic Khazars of the Volga area. Modern genetics research says no, Ashkenazi Jews are rather a product of Middle Eastern male Jews n female European Christians during the Middle Ages. Centuries of inbreeding, nepotism, n tribalism followed, with a professional focus on pawning n lending money, which led to a special set of genetics characteristic of the Jewish communities of Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belorussia, n other East European countries. N of course modern Israel. Poland recently chased out its Jews who were Communists so I think few remain there. Ashkenazi Jews insist they have a legitimate blood n soil connection to Israel. The question there is Would that still be valid after at least 1000 years of exile, n after at least 1/2 mixture with Europeans? Maybe “where they come from” means back to the Tsarist Pale of Settlement!

  30. hosro says:
    @ia

    I’m not singling out Jews…

    Why not? They, a a whole, really are global plague.

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