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The Meaning of Corona
Gilad Atzmon at Jason Liosatos Outside The Box.
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In this interview I elabore together with Jason Liosatos on the prospects of a Corona paradigm shift, escalating the crisis into a criminal investigation. Is it a bio-lab accident, or may be a bio-weapon mutating into a mass killer? Who should investigate the possible culprit(s)? I offer some basic mathematical tools that could help to track down and identify the possible origin of the virus. If you regard yourself as a critical being you may enjoy this conversation.

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Here is an article that looks at one of the World Health Organization’s special envoys for the COVID-19 pandemic and how inaccurate his projections about the impact of coronaviruses have been in the past:

    https://viableopposition.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-whos-special-covid-19-envoys-how.html

    Given the pandemic panic that is being created, in large part, by the World Health Organization which is being relied on by governments around the world for scientifically accurate advice during this crisis, it is interesting to see that one of their six “special envoys” appointed as WHO’s response to the coronavirus has a track record that is, to put it mildly, less than special.

  2. Levtraro says:

    Gilad, you might be seriously wrong about herd immunity.

    When you let a new virus (natural or engineered) that mutates a lot (and you noticed that this virus mutates a lot) run freely over large populations (while protecting the more susceptible) you are accelerating the virus mutation rate because under the policy of herd immunity there are orders of magnitude more virus replications than under the alternative policy of lockdown. Now, the acceleration of the mutation rate from the policy of herd immunity may make the virus more tame or more deadly. So there is a good chance you might bring about the next more deadly strain faster while trying to create herd immunity instead of achieving population-level immunity for the next strain.

    The thing is what is faster, the capacity of the human immune system to create defenses or the mutation rate of the virus to overcome human immune system defenses? We don’t know. So the herd immunity policy is playing Russian roulette with a loaded gun we don’t know how many bullets the gun got in it.

  3. Is it a bio-lab accident, or may be a bio-weapon mutating into a mass killer? Who should investigate the possible culprit(s)?

    This was planned all along and here is a link to one of the playbooks. http://www.nommeraadio.ee/meedia/pdf/RRS/Rockefeller%20Foundation.pdf

    This “live exercise,” stated by Pompeo, is a perfect example of Jerusalem vs. Athens. It is Pathos vs. Logos: emotion vs. logic. Populations are being easily led around by authoritarians that play on the public’s emotions of their fear of dying.

    Besides Gates, Kissinger, and a whole slew of other puppeteers, here are some notable collaborators.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Rodin
    “Judith Rodin (born Judith Seitz; September 9, 1944) is a philanthropist with a long history in U.S. higher education. She was the president of the Rockefeller Foundation from 2005 until 2017

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajiv_Shah
    “Rajiv “Raj” Shah, (born March 9, 1973) is the President of the Rockefeller Foundation…Shah joined the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation in 2001

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Schwartz_(futurist)
    “Peter Schwartz (/ʃwɔːrts/; born 1946) is an American futurist, innovator, author, and co-founder of the Global Business Network…Schwartz is best known as the primary and disgraced author of the 2004 Pentagon Climate Change report…In 2010, Schwartz and GBN authored “Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development”, which was published by the Rockefeller Foundation and includes a section subtitled ‘Lock Step’ credited with forecasting a worldwide pandemic leading to international economic failures and authoritarian controls.

    One of Gilad’s fellow Brits, Mark Devlin, spells it out perfectly…

  4. Anonymous[181] • Disclaimer says:

    Careful now, or you will be receiving The Spinoza Treatment(like that’s never happened before).

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  5. NPleeze says:
    @Levtraro

    So there is a good chance you might bring about the next more deadly strain faster

    Good chance? As in, what, one in 100 trillion? There’s a much better chance some government goon will kill you – that’s happened 100 millions of times in the last century alone.

    And why doesn’t this “good chance” apply to the annual flu? I mean, remember Spanish flu? We should just permanently cower in our basements, eh, genius? Otherwise we might get sick!

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  6. Gilad you are not up to date on the latest information on the virus. Yes the virus might have been started at a bio lab near Wuhan China and not the wet market. The bio lab was NOT engaged in Biological Warfare. The were engaged in medical research. The virus might have been leaked from mishandling the virology.

    There was a warning given to the US State Dept, about this bio lab being a pandemic waiting to happen because of lapsed protocols. The Bio lab was engaged in Corona research, searching for cures. This was a medical research for remedies not bio warfare.

    You as a rule only get part of story correct, since you are predisposed to finding some mendacious Jews behind criminality. Yes this is a criminal situation that is being investigated, but you are completely wrong claiming this started from a Bio Warfare gone awry.

    In the US the are about to close this criminal case as there were many warnings regarding this lab. An intern got the virus and infected her partner. There are vital facts that you are missing.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  7. Sean says:

    Improper weight is being assigned to various alternatives and the conclusions reached are too dogmatically arrived at (he might want to look at the case fatality ratio in Singapore for instance). Atzmon needs to modulate his thought processes much more than is on display here. Less tubthumping please.

  8. @Levtraro

    Hello there, you raise a valid point. The logic behind the lockdown is pretty clear to all of us. In the video above I actually argue that we are operating in conditions of uncertainty. I actually argue that considering the fact that we do not know what we are up against, herd immunity may also prove to be a disaster. Yet, considering all the options and the fact that herd immunity entails an exist strategy while lockdown doesn’t, implementing herd immunity strategy is the way forward.

    More specifically, and I may be totally wrong here as we are poorly informed by our governments and MSM. It seems as if Herd Immunity has been working in some regions. In Israel many are infected yet not many have died. Some say the the same may apply to California. If I am correct, being exposed the CV19 type A or even pre A might have been sufficient as far as herd immunity is concerned. In other words, you may want actually to encounter the virus now when it is relatively weak as your anti bodies may be sufficient to deal with future deadly strains.

  9. @Anonymous

    I have been subject to the ‘Spinoza treatment’ for 2 decades, and I am not the only author on this site who falls into that category…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  10. Ron Unz says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    It seems as if Herd Immunity has been working in some regions…Some say the the same may apply to California.

    Absolutely not! That’s just a crackpot theory promoted on FoxNews by a scientifically-illiterate Neocon shill named Victor Davis Hanson:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/trumps-biggest-decision/#comment-3835155

    • Replies: @NPleeze
    , @Gilad Atzmon
  11. @Fran Taubman

    Fran, your phantasmic wet market narrative has finally collapsed..

    Neither me, nor you or anyone at this stage, can decide whether the lab accident happened in Wuhan, or in North Carolina, or in Ness Ziona or in Migal or any other bio lab or a bio warfare lab around the world!… What we do know is that you, like many other caricatures, were buying into the fantasy of ‘Chinese bats eaters.’ We also know that as the bat eating narrative came to an end, neocons and their Hasbara trolls were and are still are, desperate to identify China as the originator of the current crisis.

    I am not in a position to determine whether it was a bio lab accident or a bio warfare agent mutating irregularly. I am not even totally convinced that CV19 is the core of the problem. It may as well be a symptom of the complexity of the situation.

    I therefore push for a criminal investigation. In such an investigation America with its type A and its many biolabs is indeed a prime suspect. The same applies to China, Russia, UK, France, may be Iran and CERTAINLY your beloved Israel that is not signed on any relevant treaty, has on record employed chemical/biological military agent with a respiratory effect and also perform a spectacular herd immunity to the current CV19 strains.

    You say the following:

    You as a rule only get part of story correct, since you are predisposed to finding some mendacious Jews behind criminality.

    Needless to mention that in my entire work on CV19 I didn’t say a word about ‘Jews,’ I didn’t even mention the ‘J word.’ I actually praised the work of some Israelis like prof Yoram Lass … You may want to ask yourself why you are desperate to vindicate ‘the Jews’ on threads linked to my work.. Is it because you know something we don’t?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  12. NPleeze says:
    @Ron Unz

    Absolutely not!

    Seriously? Since there hasn’t been any study done to negate the hypothesis that the virus has affected huge numbers of people (whether in a prior year or this year), how can you rule it out? That’s rather unscientific (and has nothing to do with Hanson).

    Until the tyrants and lunatics in charge actually do some population-wide (truly random sampling), accurate (i.e., non-PCR) testing, we’re all just speculating as to the real history of the virus.

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
  13. The virus is real, not a hoax. I know this for a fact. You can get it and spread it very easily. Just go out and mingle. It was developed at Ft. Detrick. Everyone knows this. But Ft. Detrick isn’t in China, and so, oh, well.

    • Replies: @Jeff Albertson
    , @Anon
  14. Levtraro says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Unfortunately your reasoning is flawed because it doesn’t take into account that this is a dynamical situation where the result at time t depends and changes according to the result at time t-1.

    Let’s assume the virus did run in the Israeli population and created herd immunity. Great. How many people in Israel? 9 million. That was one shot of the gun and it didn’t fire. Now apply the same later in the UK. Later means that the pass through Israel was one shot and the cylinder has turned one time. How many more people now in the UK?. Just London has 9 million. How many more turns of the cylinder? How many more virus replications? Eventually there is a good chance the virus will replicate so much that it will overcome its limitations and spread more widely and/or deadlier.

    The rational policy is to reduce the number of virus replications. Herd immunity is exactly the opposite, is to increase orders of magnitude the number of replications in the hope that human defenses are faster than virus strenghthening mutations. Doing that that under so much uncertainty is frankly, hubristic.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  15. Ron, what’s your opinion on Bhakdi? Does he have valid points in his open letter to Merkel?

    https://swprs.org/open-letter-from-professor-sucharit-bhakdi-to-german-chancellor-dr-angela-merkel/
    https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

    What about the massive collateral damage that E. Michael Jones addresses in this video? Do they not matter? Should everyone currently unemployed stay quiet during martial law and allow Bill Gates, Henry Kissinger and company to dictate everyone’s life without any sort of accountability?

    WHAT ABOUT BILL GATES and his obsession with population control and vaccines? Is it simply coincidence that the Corona Virus appeared full force throughout the world at the same moment in history when the Gates Foundation is funding the WHO and https://www.pirbright.ac.uk/our-science/avian-viral-diseases/coronaviruses ?

  16. @Ron Unz

    I find it hard to follow the context of the debate in the link above. I don’t enter a political debate here about California’s state policy which I know nothing about. Also I am not familiar with Victor Davis Hanson nor have I ever looked into his work. What I was referring to is a recent Cambridge University study that suggests that in California we witness high distribution of CV19 Type A which is prior in ancestry terms to the Type B that is widely common in Wuhan ,,, the possible assumption in that regards is that California has benefited of relative herd immunity,,, This raises many questions re the originator of the virus… a good summary of the topic can be viewed here: https://youtu.be/hsCo8w67FhE

    An earlier (published) Cambridge Uni academic study can be found here: https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117

    Needless to mention that this study is based on the assumption that the virus found its way from bats to humans without a scientific/technological intervention.

    • Thanks: Ilya G Poimandres
    • Replies: @Thomas Milton
  17. Ron, it comes off as slightly odd that you seem more concerned with Victor Davis Hanson than you do with COVID-19.

    “Crackpot theory”? Don’t see many of those around here, do ya?

    One thing has become clear over the last 30 days. Nobody knows anything about the corona-virus but everybody has an opinion based on that lack of knowledge.

  18. @Gilad Atzmon

    All US news last night was State Dept officials talking about proof via memos about this lab outside Wuhan. Pompaeo was very clear about the evidence and they are pursing China criminality.
    Usually you,criminality and Jews are inseparable. You have not mentioned the J word yet. Waiting for the other shoe to drop. If you should come to another conclusion I will be really happy and proud of you for doing an honest investigative story. But FYI The US is on China criminality like white on rice.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  19. @Levtraro

    It is amazing how incapable of understanding what is going on 99.99999% of the people are. You, and almost everyone else, are contrasting Lockdown versus Herd Immunity, as if they were opposite policies.

    They are not!!!!!

    This virus is *very* contagious. Angela Merkel declared that 70% of Germany would get infected. In Brazil, a top official in the Health cabinet said 100% would. No government agent in any country has presented a substantially lower figure. Most of them favor varying degrees of lockdown. Most of them advocate the theory of ‘flattening the curve’.

    Thus, the lockdown policy is just (intended) herd immunity at a much slower rate (so that hospitals do not become overwhelmed). If you are worried about virus mutation, this is the worst of the alternatives. It is the one which will give the virus amplest time to mutate.

    Gilad, in a reply to your comment, said that ‘herd immunity’ is the way forward, because it is the one with an exit strategy, as opposed to lockdown. If you replace ‘herd immunity’ with ‘undelayed herd immunity’, what Gilad said is the single most sensible thing I have read since the start of the pandemic.

    • Thanks: Gilad Atzmon
  20. Hacienda says:
    @NPleeze

    And because the earth’s large telescopes were shut, an Empire State Building sized asteroid crashed into Florida. A preventable disaster had the asteroid been detected early enough.

    50 years after the disaster that wiped out 90% of humanity, governments still had not lifted the social distancing policies for fear that the three Covid-19 deaths from the previous year would increase to four.

    • LOL: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  21. @Levtraro

    I am sorry but so far it seems as if those who are immune to type A can handle types B and C .. there is no guarantee that this will remain the same for types E,F and D but this is the best we got so far… ourselves being living (fighting) organisms.. however in the interview I address your point saying that herd immunity is not a perfect solution as we are dealing with ‘conditions of uncertainty’ even if our decision entails 0.85 success, the 0.15 could turn to be the end of humanity as we know it… I am aware of it..

    • Replies: @Sean
  22. @Brás Cubas

    If you are worried about virus mutation, this is the worst of the alternatives. It is the one which will give the virus amplest time to mutate.

    I may be wrong there. The probability of mutation is increased with number of replications, not with time per se. So please disregard it.

    Even taking that error in consideration, I stand by what I said in the remainder of my comment.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
  23. Sean says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    ACE 2 Coding Variants: A Potential X-linked Risk Factor for COVID-19 Disease William T Gibson, Daniel M Evans, Jianghong An, Steven JM Jones bioRxiv 2020.04.05.026633; doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.04.05.026633

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200415/ACE2-genetic-variants-may-influence-coronavirus-disease-progression.aspx

    On considering the ACE2 missense variants overall, the researchers say their estimated prevalence was 3.9 per 1,000 males and 8.5 per 1,000 females. On calculating the prevalence of individual variants, the estimated prevalence of rs4646116 (p.Lys26Arg) was 1 in 70 among Ashkenazi Jewish males and 1 in 172 among non-Finnish European males. The frequency of this allele was higher among females. This allele occurred at a very low frequency among other populations and was absent among Korean and Japanese participants.

    • Thanks: Gilad Atzmon
  24. @Fran Taubman

    Yes, I also remember when the same State Dept had all the ‘evidence’ re WMD in Iraq. I also remember Secretary of State Colin Powell discussing Iraq WMD in the UN. It was revealed later that most of this false information came from Israel. At least this time we know in advance the source for the ‘evidence’ re Wuhan biolab. It is one Dany Shoahm, a “former Israeli military intelligence officer : https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/26/coronavirus-link-to-china-biowarfare-program-possi/

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  25. One prong of CIA disinformation: the innumerable bots showing up here authoritatively modeling official opinions based on their brother went as a scientist for halloween in fifth grade, “_____ did it [not CIA.]”

    The other prong is the party line handed down by Mockingbird media to the brainwashed ranks of the outer party.

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/04/16/neo-did-america-just-confess-to-a-covid-19-bio-war/

    It is a very good sign when CIA brainwashing takes on this frantic tone. 1035-960 is breaking down. CIA’s magic word ‘conspiracy’ only casts its spell on them. Russiagate is a joke. CIA is busted.

  26. Levtraro says:
    @Brás Cubas

    It’s good you retracted your error, it is not easy to do that: the key process controlling the mutation rate of the virus is the number of replications which the foolhardy policy of herd immunity increases by orders of magnitude. Happily for humans the masters have decided to follow the lockdown policy instead of letting the virus run unimpeded through their subjects (with exceptions). Even them can be brought to reason when it is imperative.

    The rest of your post is also in error. Herd immunity and lockdown clearly are alternative policies. Let’s say you are high up in the state hierarchy: either you let people mingle and pass infections, or you don’t. Most masters decided to order implementation of the lockdown policy, some decided to let their subjects get infected and develop herd immunity but then they switched to the lockdown policy.

    Herd immunity is like daring the virus to try and kill humans better. It is challengng the virus to engage humans in a molecular race. Humans often think too much of themselves. Fortunately most masters, starting with the Chinese bosses, would rather take a big hit in the economy than to play the molecular game with the virus.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  27. @Levtraro

    You are giving me the theory, and, as theory, I have no objections. But, in the real world, lockdowns are not perfect, and can only last so long. During lockdown, some people are ‘essential’ and thus need to be out of their homes, thus keeping the virus circulating. And they are now saying lockdowns will be intermittent. That means infections will rise all over again, and then there will be a new lockdown. Otherwise, there would be no talk of intermittency. It would be over after the first lockdown.

    Are you disputing all the world leaders, none of whom came forward to challenge Angela Merkel’s statement of 70% of Germans infected? If Germany, one of the most successful countries in the fight against this pandemic, is expecting that level of infection, how much less infected could other countries be? And 70% is enough for herd immunity, according to most epidemiologists.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
    , @Gilad Atzmon
  28. anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    CIA’s mother-nature cover story is falling apart. The outside world is tracing CIA’s BWC-illegal offensive development effort.

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/04/11/pravda-us-army-created-covid-19-in-2015-research-proofs-or-debunking-you-pick/

    CIA’s wet-market cover story is falling apart. COVID-19 spreads indoors – except when CIA distributes tainted gimme caps, as in Iran and Iraq.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.04.20053058v1

    CIA did it. The scumbags never stopped poisoning us. Gina’s busted, string her up.

    https://gosint.wordpress.com/2020/04/16/on-this-day-the-dugway-sheep-incident-march-13-1968-porton-down-1953-skull-valley-1968-salisbury-2018-wuhan-2019-update-us-intel-covid-19-leaked-out-wuhan-lab/

  29. @Gilad Atzmon

    Oh Come on Gilad. The entire world claimed that Saddam had WMD. And he refused the UN inspectors, spitting in their faces when they came to inspect. Switching locations where they could look at the last minute.
    There was so much Saddam could have done to stop that invasion. Like open his hidden closets leading people to believe he was hiding something. As I remember it was more UN intel from the inspectors then Israel. Israel took out their nuclear reactor. It is horrible what happened to Iraq and a total misunderstanding of Iraq and their Shia vs. Sunni divide. I blame it more on the scholars analyzing the culture incorrectly. But Saddam was a horrible person. Horrible. Enough blame to go around. Israel was not the main source of WMD information. That is a lie.

    The bio lab in Wuhan sent their own internal memos, about the safety of their facility to the US. Sort of whistle blowing it from within. I believe the evidence. It makes sense. They had accidents where their internal people were screwing up with the virology and getting themselves infected.
    China is fucked on this one, and the world is going to make them pay. Wuhan was not a bio weapons lab!!

    • Troll: GazaPlanet
    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  30. @obwandiyag

    Thanks, Ob, I agree: shutting down Ft. detrick last fall is just too suspicious. I’ll bet it’s been non-stop destruction of evidence ever since, against the very remote possibility that anyone would ever audit or investigate what was going on there.
    Recall vividly the official who sent the Anthrax spores being allowed to flee to Israel while Hatfill was being scapegoated.
    “Show’s over folks, nothing to see, move along…”

  31. Levtraro says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Yes, I think the current lockdown (imperfect indeed, by necessity) has decreased the replication rate hard enough (by orders of magnitude) that most humans will not get infected and just because of that the virus will lose its evolutionary momentum.

    In addition to that, thanks to slowing down the replication rate under lockdown, there will be time for research on treatments and better detection of asymptomatic infected.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  32. @Levtraro

    You say ‘has decreased’ and ‘hard enough’. Do you mean we can stop it right now and go back to normal life? Or do I misunderstand you? If that is what you mean, please tell that to our leaders. If they listen to you, I wouldn’t waste my time trying to prove anything. Some people would still be angry, though.

    On the other hand, if you mean that we should continue with lockdowns, absent some numbers backed up by simulations or calculations, however flimsy their assumptions may be, your opinion is just a matter of belief. In your calculations, don’t forget to include all the socioeconomical, psychological and ethical factors that should necessarily be considered, not just the medical ones.

    I am sorry to include a last paragraph that is a little more aggressive. Your style is typical of people who are afraid to go out on a limb. I defied you to explicitly say that Angela Merkel is lying. You didn’t. But you implied it. That’s good enough for me. Now tell me why anyone should follow the recommendations of a liar.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Levtraro
  33. @Fran Taubman

    As you know very well , it was me who called on this site to escalate corona crisis into a criminal investigation, I am happy to see the American president following Unz Review.. I just think the presidents better let the professionals do their job rather than framing a suspect before the investigation even started…I can’t see how a leak in Wuhan explains appearance of CV19 Type A in the USA…

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  34. @Gilad Atzmon

    ‘…In other words, you may want actually to encounter the virus now when it is relatively weak as your anti bodies may be sufficient to deal with future deadly strains…’

    Not that it’s ever been particularly deadly, but the virus should become less deadlier still with the passage of time, not more.

    After all, microscopic organisms want to live too! And rule one for living is to not kill your host. Rule two is if possible not to bother him at all. After all, we’re inhabited by all kinds of things that don’t bother us. Generally, diseases evolve in the direction of becoming less harmful, not more harmful.

    (Happily, the Corona Virus is already half-way there. Fifty percent of those who ‘catch’ it remain totally asympomatic. Conceivably, by Christmas it may not be a disease at all).

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  35. @Brás Cubas

    ‘You say ‘has decreased’ and ‘hard enough’. Do you mean we can stop it right now and go back to normal life? ‘

    Hopefully we can. It was easy enough to do a swan dive into the pool of major depression. Whether we can arc as gracefully back out of the pool remains to be seen.

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
  36. @Gilad Atzmon

    Has anyone really tested to determine whether this virus is the cause of the disease. Presence of a virus or it’s antibodies does not prove it is causing disease. I’ve seen nothing so far. We have seen a lot of effort to play up the “plandemic” and fraudulently pad the death rolls.

  37. @Gilad Atzmon

    ‘I have been subject to the ‘Spinoza treatment’ for 2 decades, and I am not the only author on this site who falls into that category…’

    It’s illuminating to contemplate the fate of ‘Jews who are critical of Israel/Judaism.’

    There would be you, Norm Finkelstein, Goldstone, Toaff, no doubt others. It seems that you’re either hounded into groveling submission or cast into the outer darkness. Finkelstein lost tenure, lost his teaching position, and — somewhat absurdly — there was even a move afoot to evict him from his apartment.

    Is there any other ethnic and ideological combination this happens to so surely? There was Salman Rushdie and Iran’s fatwa on him — but that’s a pretty isolated case, and anyway, Rushdie’s continued quite happily with his career.

    Trotsky and the Stalinists?

    I recall the (Jewish) economics columnist for the New York Times, Paul Krugman, emphatically declaring that he had no comment to make concerning Israel.

    Wise man.

  38. @Gilad Atzmon

    Well you are correct. You do not know what CV they were producing? It was man made.

    • Replies: @FLgeezer
  39. Anon[603] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    Didn’t you say with equal 100% certainty, on a different thread, that it all began in Winnipeg?

    You are a simple minded guy regurgitating stuff you’ve read online. You have nothing original or worthwhile to add to the conversation. There’s really no need for you to comment so much.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  40. @Brás Cubas

    In fact 60% is probably enough for Herd Immunity in the covid19 case as it currently operates …The only problem is that we do not know what we are fighting exactly. We do not even know of CV19 is the root cause of the pandemic or maybe a symptom. Viruses are often operating along other viruses .. we do not know at the moment what the other viruses are and what are their operational modes. We think forensics rather than symptoms vs course of action.. we are more concerned with numbers and faulty statistics than with our medical world Institutional hopelessness … and on top of all of that we don’t even know whether we are dealing with a situation inflicted on us by nature or by a fellow human being.. so herd immunity is not a perfect solution just the best one we have so far… in fact I also believe that many countries that imposed lockdown were clumsy enough to allow herd immunity to evolve. This applies to the UK, Italy, Spain, France and of course NY… it is the countries that managed to impose proper lockdown a la WHO’s guideline that may have problem , as their citizens are about to find out how vulnerable they are and this is indeed very scary …

    • Agree: Brás Cubas
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  41. @Colin Wright

    Brother I believe that you forgot a few.. Israel Shamir, for instance, was hounded by them for years.. in fact it was the treatment of Shamir that pushed me into writing.

    When it comes to me, the attacks on my both music and literature careers are relentless and horrendous.. my record companies, my publishers, venues, promoters of my work, even readers are all subject to immense pressure by the lobby. The rotten uk Labour Party reported some of its members to the police for reading and sharing my papers.. the police was obviously confused as it didn’t grasp what was wrong with my work.. unlike others, I examine these attacks and make them into metaphysics.. I ask what do we learn from all of that about the condition of being a self-identified member of the tribe.. in my work there is no real difference between Zionists and ‘anti’ , secular and religious , tikun olam and Uber Chosenites . I examine the meaning of identification, I look at culture and it’s elements rather than examining the ppl, ethnicity, race or biology… by their desperate attempts to silence me they only confirm that I am in the right track…(I hope) …

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  42. @Gilad Atzmon

    ‘In fact 60% is probably enough for Herd Immunity in the covid19 case as it currently operates …The only problem is that we do not know what we are fighting exactly…’

    We’re fighting a collective psychosis that is swiftly plunging the world into a major depression which we have no guarantee that we will be able to escape.

    There’s also a chest cold going around that can be a serious matter for the very ill or the very elderly but for most people is barely perceptible. However, compared to the problems posed by the collective psychosis that’s really of little consequence. No one will be fretting about Covid-19 when we find ourselves reliving the 1930’s.

    • Agree: Wielgus
  43. Levtraro says:
    @Brás Cubas

    You don’t misuderstand me. I think the current lockdown plus widespread testing plus ongoing research into treatments (not so sure about vaccines) will result in the virtual extinction of SARS-CoV-2 (I mean the same fate as SARS-CoV-1), it will be under control and we will go back to normal. Further lockdowns down the read would be a failure.

    You are right that policy should be done based on both, sanitary and socio-economic projections (ethical and psychological: not so sure we can quantify those objectively).

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
    , @Brás Cubas
  44. @Anon

    You retard. You know nothing of me or of anything I say. You have no idea where I get my information. You are too stupid to know what projection is, internet-scrounger. I suggest you take my 100% certainty as gospel. You might survive.

    Proof you are a severely retarded retard: I didn’t say what you say I said; proving that you are too godawful stupid to double-check your addled pronouncements.

  45. @Hacienda

    And the dinosaur, seeing the comet streak across the sky, cried, “Oh, shit! The economy!!”

    • LOL: Hacienda
  46. @Colin Wright

    Yeah, tell that to Spanish flu, or Ebola, or Cholera.

  47. @Levtraro

    How can Covid19 has the same fate as SARS-CoV-1 if SARS-CoV-1 disappeared voluntarily (unil a further notice) … Viruses don’t just die my dear,,, they keep evolving ready for the next battle and as you know, we do not really have the means to ‘kill’ viruses as they are not alive to start with…We have to learn to live with viruses letting our bodies do the fight accepting that we are merely an organism…

    • Replies: @Levtraro
  48. @Levtraro

    Well, you say “will result”, but do not specify a stopping point. And your opinion is radically different from what scientists are saying. They are forecasting longer periods of trouble and further lockdowns, up until 2022, and possibly further trouble as late as 2024. Their recommendations are of course impossible to follow, because of non-medical factors which they are underestimating.

    Summarizing your point of view: scientists are wrong about the facts, governments are wrong about the facts; but you think most of them are enforcing or advocating the right policies.

    Summarizing my point of view: they got the medical and epidemiological facts right, so far (further knowledge may contradict them partially or totally in the future, of course); but they are doing the wrong thing.

    That paradoxical pattern is what I see everywhere; the explanation for it is quite simple: it is easier to do what leaders are telling people to do if people don’t understand the situation clearly. But it is mostly self-deceit which is at work here. In a month or so, they will have a clearer picture.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
  49. Levtraro says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    We have to learn to live with viruses letting our bodies do the fight accepting that we are merely an organism

    Gilad, your recommendation is that humans go back to being animals without science and technology, letting their physiology deal with the threat instead of using their knowledge. I was wrong by calling your stance “hubristic”. It is “primitivist”.

  50. Levtraro says:
    @Brás Cubas

    I believe the stopping point will happen somewhat after the northern hemisphere summer and will manifest itself naturally, by having negligible numbers of new infected as in Wuhan and by succesfully treating the remaining infected.

    What scientists connected to the masters and the media attention say is not evidence of what most scientists think about the future evolution of the epidemics. Esentially, any prediction beyond a few months (or weeks) is not to be taken seriously.

    Your summary of my view strikes me as insincere, just trying to elicit a more detailed response on my part. What scientists are discovering and publishing about the virus and the epidemiology is correct, what most governments are doing with the lockdown policy also is correct.

    I cannot parse the rest of your post. You seem to think of yourself very enlightened while the rest of the populace follow the masters. Maybe you are right but that is not interesting.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  51. @Levtraro

    You seem to think of yourself very enlightened while the rest of the populace follow the masters.

    You misrepresent what I am saying. The populace follow the masters while they misunderstand what they are really saying. If I am enlightened, it is in a humble way: I read what mainstream publications such as Science are printing and add 2 and 2.

    What scientists connected to the masters and the media attention say is not evidence of what most scientists think about the future evolution of the epidemics.

    Who is that majority of scientists and what are they saying exactly? Let us have some references here.

    Your summary of my view strikes me as insincere, just trying to elicit a more detailed response on my part.

    That’s right, I surely would like a more detailed response, which you apparently do not have.

    Well, it was nice talking to you. Your mutating hypothesis is interesting, and could prove me wrong by neglecting it. Only as a layman I have no data to back it up in more specific terms, and thus justify a change of opinion. And I think no specialist has it either, since it’s very hard or impossible to predict whether the virus will just mutate to milder forms.

  52. @Gilad Atzmon

    When it comes to me, the attacks on my both music and literature careers are relentless and horrendous.. my record companies, my publishers, venues, promoters of my work, even readers are all subject to immense pressure by the lobby.

    This is the evidence that matters.

    If the moral superiority of the Israeli diaspora were as self-evident as some claim it is, there would be no need for such an assault upon your person, your art, and your livelihood. If your writing was merely the ranting of a lunatic, it would suffice to ignore it, leaving it to the enjoyment of an ultimately ineffective and innocuous coterie of wingnuts.

    It’s a fact that merits regular repetition. Laws that relegate a constitutionally protected right to a criminal act akin to those perpetrated by ISIS or the KKK are advanced by the very same people, all of whom would silence even legitimate criticism of Israel given the first available opportunity. Your history, as well as that of Mr. Shamir, is further evidence of this.

    This is not the Potemkin illusion many have come to associate with Israel. It’s their real face, unmasked and unabashed, and it deserves to be exposed for as many times as it rears its ugly head, until it’s properly brought to heel.

    • Agree: Jon Baptist
    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  53. @Colin Wright

    Is there any other ethnic and ideological combination this happens to so surely? There was Salman Rushdie and Iran’s fatwa on him — but that’s a pretty isolated case, and anyway, Rushdie’s continued quite happily with his career.

    LOL LOooool
    Yeah anyone that criticizes Islam mostly disappears. Look at the what happened to Charlie Hebdo with the cartoons of the Prophet. If you hear Rushdie, he was in hiding for years. Then there was Theo Van Gogh was killed on the street for producing a film critical of Islam called Submission. No one lives to criticize the Prophet or Islam and lives to talk about it. There is no Islamic self reflection or criticism, like their exist in Judaism. Gilad gets a hard time due to his alignment with WN, and Jihadist, and also his revival Medieval Christian Jew hatred and conspiracies, which is anathema to Jews and Christians everywhere. He carries water for a lot of horrible people. Islam is like a baby about criticism. Look Sadat made peace and got killed by the Muslim Brotherhood. You are out to lunch on this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_%28film_director%29

  54. @Gilad Atzmon

    In the news yesterday, the World Health Organization declared that very few of the recovered develop antibodies, and thus herd immunity is not going to happen. Also, the reporter — it wasn’t clear whether she was quoting the W.H.O. on that — said that those who develop antibodies are possibly becoming reinfected, so they would be a poor protection.

    If true, those are very bad news. Forget herd immunity. And, possibly, forget vaccines as well.

    On the other hand, those declarations seem totally at odds with the following news:

    Why we’re still relying on a century-old strategy to treat COVID-19
    https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/13/21216513/plasma-blood-coronavirus-treament-drug-development-antibodies

    ‘Liquid gold’: the rush for plasma and the Covid-19 survivors who want to help
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/16/plasma-donations-coronavirus-patients-survivors

    Italy aims to turn suffering to advantage with experimental Covid-19 treatment
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/15/europe/italy-coronavirus-antibody-plasma-treatment-intl/index.html

    Very strange.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @Gilad Atzmon
  55. @Brás Cubas

    In the news yesterday, the World Health Organization declared that very few of the recovered develop antibodies, and thus herd immunity is not going to happen.

    Sorry, they (Michael J. Ryan) didn’t say that. It was just the lousy translation from Brazilian TV. I checked, and he said that too few of the *population* have antibodies. It’s at 29′ of the video below:

    The rest of the comment may still have some interest.

  56. @AnonStarter

    I try to do my the best I can…

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
  57. @Brás Cubas

    To start with I really do not trust the WHO as a source of information or as a strategy planner. Yet, as I have been arguing all along, in the talk above and in my papers: we don’t know what we are up against. We don’t even know whether CV19 is a present from another organism or maybe the creation of another fellow human being. I believe that we don’t even know whether CV19 is the root cause of the current crisis.

    As such we are in the dark and Herd Immunity is just the best chance we have as things stand.

    As I understand global pandemics in the last century came in 3 waves. Wave 1 is significant. Wave 2 is very dangerous and costs many mor lives and wave 3 tends to be lighter. If we are dealing with a pandemic of that sort and the wave we see now is not wave 2, we should expect countries with no herd immunity to experience a total disaster soon…Let’s hope that a vaccine is found or that I am totally wrong…

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  58. Gilad gets a hard time due to his alignment with WN, and Jihadist, and also his revival Medieval Christian Jew hatred and conspiracies, which is anathema to Jews and Christians everywhere. He carries water for a lot of horrible people.

    Where do you get this total nonsense?

    I am critical of all forms of ID politics including WN, LGBTQ and ofbviously J as well. I have never been associated with any WN politics whatsoever. I have nothing to do with Jihadists and never been associated with any form of Jihadism. I defy the idea that there are Jewish conspiracies. Everything is done in the open from Epstein, to Weinstein, to AIPAC to Israeli criminality.

    What I have done is blowing the whistle on the cultural DNA at the core of Jewish ID politics and I indeed exposed a grave reality. To date, no one has ever pointed at a mistake in my reference or my argument. I myself found a few faults but I kept quiet about it not to embarrass me 🙂

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  59. @Gilad Atzmon

    WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOUR SUPPORTERS ARE!!!! LOOk at the responders to your articles. WN and Muslim Jew haters. ou carry the myth from Medieval Christianity, showing Jewish criminals as Jewish identity. Classic Medieval garbage. Jews as being the power structure, with primordial evil for enslaving dumb goyim. You are the only one in your self hating Jew group to go beyond the boundaries of religious dogma into the very culture of Jews as the source of evil. When every other religion has the same baggage. Think if you were a Muslim talking trash against Islam you would be dead.

    I went to every one of your FB friends, the worst of the worst. Horrible irrational Jew haters.
    Why the fuck do you think people are trying to take you down. The fact that you deny this is hilarious. Why do you think I am here if your argument was about religious rituals and dogma.
    No Gilad you are way more then a religious critic.

    You maybe trying to become legit now but you were full of it before the shit hit the fan, you have been outed.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  60. @Gilad Atzmon

    Thanks for the reply. I don’t trust the WHO either, but, as I pointed out in the follow-up to my comment, I made a mistake in this case. Anyway, I am very interested in the many angles of the development of this pandemic and agree with you so far on what I was able to follow of your writings.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  61. FLgeezer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    >You do not know what CV they were producing? It was man made.

    Yes, we do know what CV (((they))) were producing. And as predicted (((they))) produced a vaccine
    about two weeks after it took hold in America.

    https://christiansfortruth.com/israeli-scientists-claim-its-pure-luck-they-were-already-working-on-a-covid-19-vaccine-prior-to-the-outbreak/

    So you are right about one thing Fran; it WAS man made.

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  62. @Fran Taubman

    If you really visit my FB page you will see that my followers form a very wide spectrum of left and right, nationalists and cosmopolitans, religious and seculars and many Israelis who often comment in Hebrew .. I welcome an open exchange and I do not expect a jerusalemites of your ilk to accept this …
    Once again you didn’t substantiate a word you said.. you just introduced a new BS. So let me educate you. I am NOT a critic of religion.. I am critical of ID POLITICS AND CULTURE. In my book the problem with self political identified Js is fundamental and extends beyond religion and political position. As such I am indeed critical of Zionists and anti alike ..
    It isn’t the gene, the biology, the race it is a cultural bond sustained by chosenism ..

    my work has been endorsed by the greatest thinkers as you know very well and this is upsetting for the Dershowitzes of the world and you fall clearly into this comical category..

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Fran Taubman
  63. @Brás Cubas

    The WHO will push the no antidote narrative and repeated syndromes as this is the only way they can support their choice of action namely global self isolation..I am not in a position to tell what is right and who is wrong .. but if they are lying or deluded then the next wave is The real genocide then your best chance of survival is getting yourself infected ..we will know all we need to know a year from now.. assuming we are still amongst the living ..

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  64. @Gilad Atzmon

    but if they are lying or deluded then the next wave is The real genocide then your best chance of survival is getting yourself infected

    I might be changing my mind about that, after the South Korean news about possible reinfections (more than 200 cases, if I am not mistaken). I still think governments should put the Economy in the balance in their policy making, but herd immunity does not appear to be a given. Maybe a moderate middle path would work. Open gathering places but allow less people in them, things like that. Or ban the elderly and the obese from entering them. Who knows, maybe this is a no exit situation from a policy angle. But I think we will have good antivirals soon, that may take care of it.

  65. I don’t think you should.. it is common for a portion of patients to be re infected … however, we are really kept in the dark here and this is deliberate and sinister …

  66. @Gilad Atzmon

    Mr. Atzmon,

    While I myself have infrequently attempted to engage Fran in reasoned argument, I humbly suggest that you either place her in your ignore filter or simply overlook her writing, as it seldom contains any commentary worth addressing. What’s this latest rant of hers? Guilt by association?

    Just last week, she thanked one of UR’s more renowned trolls, A123, for the following comments:

    George IslamoSoros is among the most influential Muslims in the world. His spending to put Muslim rapers into Rotherham for the normalization of Islamic paedophilia is well known. Muhammad raped Aisha when she was 9, so the goal of Islam is to make raping little girls common and accepted.

    You have no need to justify your work to her or anyone else here as it speaks for itself. Her own body of work is a tangled mess of bipolar, duplicitous gobbledygook.

    Trust me on this one. You won’t regret letting her be.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  67. @Gilad Atzmon

    If you really visit my FB page you will see that my followers form a very wide spectrum of left and right, nationalists and cosmopolitans, religious and seculars and many Israelis who often comment in Hebrew .. I welcome an open exchange and I do not expect a jerusalemites of your ilk to accept this

    There are a many many Jew haters on your FB devoted to Jewish Genocide, or the roundup and discrimination of Jews. If you want I can list many of them. Nik Lawman who posts under a Rabbi’s name is one.

    Once again you didn’t substantiate a word you said.. you just introduced a new BS. So let me educate you. I am NOT a critic of religion.. I am critical of ID POLITICS AND CULTURE. In my book the problem with self political identified Js is fundamental and extends beyond religion and political position. As such I am indeed critical of Zionists and anti alike ..

    This is a walk back and not true. You have been rejected by many anti-Zionist including prominent Palestinian solidarity people, accusing you of Jew hatred that was unacceptable to them.
    Let me quote from Mondoweiss: So is everyone else wrong in their condemnation of you as a Jew hater reviving Medieval stereotypical Christian Jew hatred verbatim? You insist on showing Jewish criminals as Jewish being why they are criminal. That they represent Judaism. The same with the organ trafficking. JEWS are criminal, evil.

    https://mondoweiss.net/2017/04/atzmons-against-merchant/

    “Shylock is the blood-thirsty merchant. With Fagin [the Jewish dealer of stolen goods in Dicken’s Oliver Twist, ed.] and Shylock in mind Israeli barbarism and organ trafficking seem to be just other events in an endless hellish continuum

    .

    Do you really believe that the Jews or the Israelis can “stop it now”?

    Have Jews ever stopped themselves voluntarily?

    Obviously, I agree with you that Israel and Zionism are engaged in horrendous crimes. But as far as I can tell, Jewish Bolsheviks were engaged in crimes of an even greater scale.

    According to Yuri Slezkin, Jews were “Stalin’s willing executioners”. Neocons, a Jewish American political school have inflicted greater disasters than Israel or Zionism.

    Is it possible that Zionism is just one symptom of a disastrous Jewish political continuum?

    Can you imagine a peace loving Jewish political existence?

    Can you point at such a body in Jewish history?

    Soft core Holocaust denial with no mention of gassing. That is your MO Gilad. Soft core. Them you can say that you never denied it sort of. You are a sort of guy. Your fans are major Holocaust deniers.

    “It took me many years to understand that the Holocaust, the core belief of the contemporary Jewish faith, was not at all an historical narrative [for] historical narratives do not need the protection of the law and political lobbies. It took me years to grasp that my great-grandmother wasn’t made into a ‘soap’ or a ‘lampshade’ as I was taught in Israel. She probably perished of exhaustion, typhus or maybe even by mass shooting… The fate of my great-grandmother was not so different from hundreds of thousands of German civilians who died in deliberate, indiscriminate bombing, just because they were Germans. Similarly, people in Hiroshima died just because they were Japanese… [As devastating as it was], at a certain moment in time, a horrible chapter was given an exceptional meta-historical status.” (pp 175, 149).

    A response to the above by Deborah Lipstadt:

    “Soft-core denial is much more insidious and squishier but when you know something is not quite right,” she told us [Washington Post]. “When you take out the identity of the victims, when those victims were specifically targeted, that is a form of rewriting history, and that’s what denial is all about.”

    And this closing by Jonathan Ofir:
    I could also simply have chosen to ignore Atzmon, or disconnect, as I did a year ago. Was it a mistake to warn publicly about him, and provoke his ire? I’m not sure, but it brought his public attack against me. Would it then be wise to ignore that? I have thought about it for a few days, and reached the conclusion that it’s more than just about me. Like Ali Abunimah, I thought that it was important to do so in this case, to make a public response.
    Gilad Atzmon thinks that “time is ripe for the rest of us to know what questions Jonathan Ofir would prefer to avoid.” I think more people need to know about Gilad Atzmon’s bigotry and anti-Semitism, under the guise of a ‘peace activist’.
    As for Atzmon’s questions, I regularly voice my critique on both Zionism and Judaism, and I don’t need a person like Atzmon leading me up the path.
    Atzmon’s questions speak volumes on their own.

    Oddly classically of Jew hatred. Those Jews that hate Jews like you are labeled “gatekeeper” and are rejected by the real Jew haters like you accuse others of being gatekeepers. Also a well known Medieval identity. Who is a Jew? 1/4 etc. You are not original.

    Here an article in insight-media about Gilad Atzmon the Good Jew. by no author. What a scathing condemnation of you from the supreme Jew hating Muslims.

    https://www.insight-media.co/2019/01/15/myth-of-the-good-jew-why-gilad-atzmon-is-irrelevant/

    Gilad Atzmon is Useless

    Wily crypto-Jew, anti-Jew, Jewish supremacist opportunist Gilad Atzmon, seized the moment for shekels and fame, jumping into this undefined space in the early 2000s using his universally accepted credentials, As a Jew, to gain attention and prominence. Changing the attack on Zionism to an attack on Jewish ‘exceptionalism’, he captured the attention of those forced to the fringes of mainstream Palestine solidarity discourse. From here, Gilad’s narrative as the sole good Jew willing to call out other Jews for their Chosenite behavior has helped him gain notoriety and devoted fans all around the world, which he wields in classic Jewish self-interest, indulging his boundless ego.

    This is why we challenge any of Gilad Atzmon’s closest Goy friends to come out and give a glowing review about his character as a person. I readily admit I never met this Jew but his Judeo-Supremacist aura overwhelms us with every single one of his long, drawn out, accented stutterances in his ‘talks.’ His unabashed and unjustifiable pomposity and self-righteousness seeps through unmistakably. This is not a good Jew, here to save us from the bad Jews. Gilad is a classic case of a Judaic NPD obliviously addicted to his own delusional sense of primal self-importance, As a Jew. There is little fresh substance here and I have a hunch that if we dig into anecdotal evidence, more creepy Talmudism may surface. He simply doesn’t have the intellectually robust, genuinely self-transcendent inquisitive feel of Stephen Lendman, Joel Kovel, or Tony Judt.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Gilad Atzmon
  68. anon[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    There are a many many Jew haters on your FB devoted to Jewish Genocide, or the roundup and discrimination of Jews. If you want I can list many of them. Nik Lawman who posts under a Rabbi’s name is one.

    There are a many, many goy haters in your noxious jew tribe, devoted to gentile genocide, or the roundup and discrimination of gentiles. 110 is around the corner, jew bitch.

    Let me quote from Mondoweiss:

    Let me fire up the ovens, so you and your jew gatekeepers at SchlomoWeiss can go jew holycau$$$$$$e yourselves.

    Soft core Holocaust denial with no mention of gassing. That is your MO Gilad. Soft core. Them you can say that you never denied it sort of. You are a sort of guy. Your fans are major Holocaust deniers.

    Hardcore jew holycau$$$$$$e horseshit, and hardcore anti-Shamitism accusations, with no mention of your filthy fucking jew tribe’s genocidal jew behavior. That is your jew MO, you senile jew sack of shit. Impugn the goyim. Manipulate the goyim into changing their laws for your benefit, and to shield your jew lies from scrutiny. Manipulate the goyim into fighting your wars for you. You are a sort of a cunt. Your fans are major Shabbos goyim traitors.

    A response to the above by Deborah Lipstadt:

    A response to toxic jew cunt and jew holycau$$$$$$e evangelist Deborah Lipstadt’s blood libel:

    Eat my goy asshole!

  69. @AnonStarter

    As you can imagine, I know exactly what I am dealing with. I actually believe that helping Zionist trolls celebrating their genuine symptoms in the open serves an educational purpose for the wide public…

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  70. @Fran Taubman

    1. You are correct Fran, ‘Jew Loving’ isn’t an entry card to my FB page. My page is a free space. Some of my followers are upset with Jewish politics, some are even disgusted by it, yet, many of my followers are Jews and Israelis. If you follow my page, you surely noticed that it is a very busy page and open to debate. Zionists, of your ilk are often confronted there. I am happy with it. This is how I interpret the Athenian spirit and the Agora being a free market of ideas!

    2. It is true that many Jewish anti Zionists are opposing my work and this is hardly surprising considering the fact that at the core of my work is the idea that the distance between the Zionists and the so called ‘anti’ is insignificant on the verge on non-existent. It is a fake image of political pluralism. I do believe that Jewish solidarity is, in most cases. a controlled opposition apparatus, This is the gist of my best selling book The Wandering Who. You cam read about the Jewish Solidarity Spin here: https://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-jewish-solidarity-spin.html You can learn about Jewish Controlled Opposition here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbx23Ygj3YM

    3. It is true that ’20 Palestinians’ led by Ali Abunimah called for my disavowal in 2011 when I was touring the USA collecting funds for the Palestinian March of Return. But it is also true that a few years later a Jewish ethnic activist and my arch detractor admitted that he engineered this call https://uprootedpalestinians.wordpress.com/2017/05/06/who-pulls-ali-abunimahs-strings/

    4. If you are interested in my take on Fagin or the Merchant of Venice in the context of contemporary Israel, my original text is here https://gilad.online/writings/the-shylocks-meet-the-fagins-by-gilad-atzmon.html I do understand that the demography of organ trafficing is a big embarrassment for every Jew and Israeli but killing the massanger won’t resolve this comfort, it will only bring it to light..

    5. It would save us time if you concentrate and think before you copy and paste segments which you fail to understand. Not that I have any respect to clumsy anti intellect Deborah Lipsdat, but there is zero correspondence between my quote and DL’s statement. I do not have any doubt that Jews were targeted for being Jews by Nazis but this was exactly the fate of German civilians in Hamburg or Dresden.. they were targeted for being Germans. The same applies to Japanese in Hiroshima and Americans in WTC. I oppose the primacy of Jewish suffering. I am open about it! I define the notion and explain exactly what I oppose.

    6. Please try to avoid calling me a Jew as I have left your tribe long ago. Just learn to accept it.

    7. I have learned to live with the fact that some people do not like what I do or say. Some people also do not like my music. This is the fate of ppl who engage in public life and debate. I, more than most ppl, deal with one of the most problematic topics namely Jewish power, its nature, its implications. There is a price to pay for telling the truth. I accept my fate. But I also expect my detractors to be committed to truthfulness as much as I do. I understad such a requierment is pretty impossible for you.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  71. @Gilad Atzmon

    I actually believe that helping Zionist trolls celebrating their genuine symptoms in the open serves an educational purpose for the wide public…

    Your call, of course.

    Sure, they can serve as a foil to make some salient points. In one of my last exchanges with Fran, she had claimed that American people were very knowledgeable about Israel and it was for this reason that they preferred the zionist perspective. Then I replied:

    It’s interesting to watch you argue that Americans are, by and large, not only well informed about Israel, but so confident in their support of her that any perspective which might undermine this support is — “without mitigation” — just that easily rejected.

    If this is so, then why does the Lobby feel it necessary to engage in militant lawfare against a constitutionally protected boycott, divestment, and sanctions movement that you yourself have dismissed as ineffective? Why, in the effort to undermine freedom of speech, have they felt it necessary to expand the definition of anti-Semitism to include even legitimate criticism of Israel? Why have they enlisted the aid of an a-list actor/comedian in the effort to deplatform social media accounts whose owners espouse entirely legitimate criticism of Israel and zionism? Do these actions reveal confidence in the American people’s pro-Israel sentiment, or rather, a sense of fear that the Potemkin facade they’ve erected is beginning to crumble beneath a steadily growing consciousness of zionist misanthropy?

    She responded with an attempt to evade answering the questions. When pressed for answers, her excuse for failing to answer was that she was allotted only “so many posts per hour,” which was a clear concession. So I can certainly understand that there’s some value to exposing the weakness of their position.

    Perhaps, given the nature of these discussions, some of it can’t be helped. I simply find you’re most effective when focused upon filling in your sweeping canvas and allowing your detractors’ profile to stand out in stark relief against its backdrop. Some of these trolls are just a relentless waste of time and energy, a deterrent to that end.

  72. nickels says:

    https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/israelis-practice-social-distancing-at-tel-aviv-protest/

    Very interesting picture in this article of protesters in Israeli spaced mathematically by their facist government.
    If anything every made the point about why jews have always preferred to live in gentile societies rather than their own, this picture says it all.

  73. @AnonStarter

    She can’t answer any question… She follows a script,,, it is like talking to a kosher robot (golem)… I am used to it, I am from there…

    • Agree: AnonStarter
  74. @AnonStarter

    And your comment was spot on…AIPAC, ADL, Hasbara are symptoms of inconfidence ….

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
  75. @Gilad Atzmon

    But I also expect my detractors to be committed to truthfulness as much as I do. I understad such a requierment is pretty impossible for you.

    By your own admission I answered #1#,2,#3 truthfully. Your # 4 is not a issue of truthfulness but more of a contextual difference, between your version and my version of the reasons for antisemitism. I took your advice and read your Fagin/Shylock essay. This is where the rubber meets the road on our differences regarding the origins of anti semitism. The metaphor of the chicken and egg. comes to mind. You blame the behavior of the Jews for antisemitism, inherent in their religion and culture, Jewish behavior is a product of supremacy and chosennes in their bible and rituals creating separateness from non Jews. Fagin is the legitimate personification of that hated Jew. I disagree. Jews were dehumanized by the Christain Church and aristocracy during Medieval times. The Jews killed Christ and rejected him as the Demi god Messiah. Jews were viewed as a major threat to the dogma and control of Christianity, therefore Jews had to be dehumanized and objectified like Fagin as evil, greedy and cartoonish disgusting characters. You transfer this character to the modern Jewish organ trafficking criminal.
    See the attached article showing that Dickens himself evolved and changed his feelings about Jews and wrote about it. Let me quote Dickens. He agrees with me.

    As for Mr. Riah, quitting his role as a moneylender in Our Mutual Friend, Dickens’s last completed novel (1864-5), he voices a new awareness about the workings of anti-Semitism:

    [I]t is not in Christian countries with the Jews as with other peoples. Men say “This is a bad Greek but there are good Greeks. This is a bad Turk but there are good Turks.” Not so with the Jews. Men find the bad among us easily enough — among what peoples are the bad not easily found? — but they take the worst of us as samples of the best, they take the lowest of us as presentations of the highest, and they say “All Jews are alike.”
    </b

    https://jewishcurrents.org/charles-dickenss-anti-semitism/

    One could easily point to the evil of the Chinese for the millions of deaths at is it universally understood that China hide for a long time the human to human contact as a method of spreading the Covet virus. I have also mentioned the 75,000 Americans killed yearly by the Roman Catholic drug cartels of South America, distributing opioids manufactured in China. Evil lurks everywhere.

    It is also true that your revival of Medieval Christian Jew hatred has been adopted by Muslims fighting the same religious squabbles for religious supremacy as the Christians used to fight. The proof of the preternatural demonization of Jews by Muslims mirroring your Fagin /Shylock Jew can be demonstrated by our resident Muslim AnonStarter. He is in desperate need of a Fagin and Shylock from central casting to help in his Muslim rage and struggle over perceived illegal Jewish supremacy over Islam.This from him.

    You have no need to justify your work to her or anyone else here as it speaks for itself. Her own body of work is a tangled mess of bipolar, duplicitous gobbledygook.

    There is more from Dickens who is more nuanced then you in dealing with the Christian self serving evil cartoon like physical and spiritual characterization of the Jew.

    In A Child’s History of England (1851-3), he describes “a dreadful murdering of the Jews” on the coronation day of Richard I, a slaughter “which seems to have given great delight to numbers of savage persons calling themselves Christians….
    I am sorry to add that in (Edward I’s) reign they were most unmercifully pillaged. They were hanged in great numbers on accusations of having clipped the King’s coin — which all kinds of people had done. They were heavily taxed, they were disgracefully badged… Finally every kind of property belonging to them was seized by the King except so little as would defray the charge of their taking themselves away into foreign countries. Many years elapsed before the hope of gain induced any of their race to return to England where they had been treated so heartlessly and had suffered so much.

    Everything I have written Gilad is the truth!! I did not get to #5 or #6 another time.

  76. Cyndy says:
    @Levtraro

    Dr Erikson’s press conference

  77. Cyndy says:
    @Brás Cubas

    Dr Erikson’s press conference

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