The Israeli media reported yesterday that the Jewish State is “actively pushing Palestinian emigration from Gaza.” A senior Israeli official confirmed that Jerusalem is looking for other countries to take in Gazans.
Times of Israel reported that “Israel is actively promoting the emigration of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip, and is working to find other countries who may be willing to absorb them.” We are basically dealing here with a systematic forced removal of the indigenous population from a given territory by a powerful settler state. In Yiddish as well as English such an act is called ethnic cleansing and is considered a crime against humanity under the statutes of the International Criminal Court (ICC).
In a similar fashion to the German (Nazi) Government at the time of the Haavara agreement (1933) the Jewish State is encouraging Gazans to ‘willingly’ leave their land. The Israeli official confirmed that Israel “is ready to carry the costs of helping Gazans emigrate, and would even be willing to consider allowing them to use an Israeli air field close to Gaza to allow them to leave for their new host countries.”
I guess that Jewish State is making a real effort to redefine the notion of Jewish ‘kindness.’
According to the Israeli official “Israeli National Security Council has been spearheading the effort, with Netanyahu’s blessing, for about a year. The program has been discussed in the security cabinet several times.” However the official confirmed that despite the Israeli communication with European leaders and even countries in the region, so far, no country has agreed to participate in the Israeli crime and absorb the ethnically cleansed Gazans.
Maybe those reluctant European leaders and countries in the region are waiting to see whether Israel is willing to absorb the many suspects involved with the current Epstein’s #pedogate as this scandal is quickly unfolding into a global crime syndicate saga.

You are right. ethnic cleansing is a problem. Let’s start by investigating the Muslim countries that cleansed their Jewish populations.
Given the known bias of the Islamic Criminal Court [ICC], Step #1 will be finding a credible venue.
PEACE
Well, most ‘Gazans’ aren’t indigenous to Gaza. The Jews drove them into the enclave in 1948.
The process really is kind of a soft-core, slow-motion version of what the Zionists’ gentile antecedents did in 1941-1943. First the Nazis drove masses of Jews into the ghettos of Warsaw, Minsk, Riga, et al, then they moved them on for a more final solution.
The Jews aren’t as free to act, so they’ve had to proceed more slowly, and settle for a less definitive final solution, but it’s the same concept. Unlike as with Germany, for Israel, sending all the ‘Jews’ to Madagascar really is within the realm of feasibility.
They can afford to be nice guys.
Anyway, strictly speaking this strategy isn’t new.
The Jews have long sought to move as many Palestinians as possible as far away as possible. In this context, it’s morbidly comic to consider what would be the one feasible destination physically most distant from Palestine.
Chile? And sure enough: Chile has a strangely large Palestinian population.
NO ‘Zionist’ button. This is a problem. It’s like going down to the hardware store and discovering they don’t carry rat poison.
I know You are a Troll.
. You know you are a Troll.
. . *EVERYONE* knows you are a Troll.
If you do not have anything meaningful to add, please be silent and let the adults talk.
PEACE 😇
‘If you do not have anything meaningful to add, please be silent and let the adults talk.’
As of your post, the only people ‘talking’ on this thread are you and me. Are you proposing you be allowed to spew your Zionist filth undisturbed?
Wait just a momemt while my brain sorts this out. Zion has been shouting at the world for decades about how the Palestinians are terrorists, man, woman and child, mindless haters and that this is why they have to be denied all human rights.
Now they want to export all these haters to the rest of the world?
The population of Gaza is doubling every 15 years or so. Gazans subsist thanks to the rich Arab states’ generosity. There is no solution for Gaza, as there is none for Haiti and say, Upper Volta (Burkina Faso). Gaza was Egyptian territory, but they did not want them and built a wall to stop them infiltrating to Sinai. Egypt does not allow Gazans to enter its territory. They know them too well.
Are you really trying to pretend that the crimes of “the jewish state” don’t matter because ‘islam’, whilst that self same “jewish” state, created and maintained by terrorists from it’s inception continues the slaughter and mutilation of of the rightful inheritors of the land now occupied by international “jews”?
Whilst it’s true that “jews” have been expelled from just about every country where they settled over the centuries, those expulsions were entirely warrented by the behaviour of “the jews”. Behaviour which, despite the distance of time, every one of us can appreciate today as “gods chosen” continue to shit all over any population which stands in the way of their despotic ambitions.
Your comments are typically weak, snide
and without merrit.
Jews staged attacks against Jews to make them flee to Israel. Jews repeated the feats in Iraq Yemen Lebanon Syria. Jews are master in it. They did same by refusing to save Jews in Europe . Saving Jews in Europe would have not added the stupid poor sheep Jews to the caravan that Jews were creating and leading to the promised land . Jews are good at it .Now they blame the Europeans and demand money to be given to the state of israel because Europe refused to take the Jews . Jews are good at it. They even called one of their own tribal member – a humanitarian conscientious Roosevelt government cabinet member as anti semite because that man tried hard to l relocate those starving Jews in European countries and in Northern NY instead of forcing them to go to Palestine in future .
Likudniks to France and ask other Jew to leave because one or two jew had died . Very soon they would says Antisemitism and state of France are responsible and world needs to make new laws for the Jews and France needs to agree to give billions to Israel .
Lies might be meaningful but is still do same what troll from you does. Do not lie. What part of this advice don’t you understand? 1 part 2 part or 3 part, 123 ?
Wow, Mr. Atzmon,
It seems like everything is coming neatly into place for the “Greater Israel” project.
Once the people of Gaza have been fully expunged and exterminated, what’s next ?
Will Israel remake the coastal enclave into a gleaming and spectacular resort destination…replete with hotels , casino’s and shopping malls ?
Will Gaza be given a new name…like Bibi-aritz…or Netan-aza ?
What is the master plan ?
Does anyone know ?
@A123 complete Hasbara BS.. Young Israel worked hard to bring Arab Jews to Zion as a desperate attempt to boost the Jewish demography in the young Jewish state. Israel used vile tactics including false flag attacks on Jewish communities and synagogues … look at the writing of Naeim Giladi,, an ex Israeli agent in Iraq: http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.html
If your premise “Jewish action is solely responsible for the reduction of the Jewish population” is true, then there should be no reduction in other releigions, such as Christians, in those territories.
Now the facts about Christian populations in Muslim majority nations (1):
Your premise is obviously not supported by the facts.
The TRUTH is — Muslims ethnically cleansed the Jews first and are now trying to exterminate the Christian population.
____
The Muslim faith requires the practice of Taqiyya (2), lying to the Infidel. Especially, about the religious requirement to practice Jihad, the conquest of Infidels.
There is one easy test to know when someone is a Taqiyya liar. They scream ‘Hasbara’ in an attempt deflect attention from their deceptions.
PEACE
__________________
(1) https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2019/05/03/the-vanishing-report-exposes-persecution-of-middle-east-christians-as-close-to-genocide/
(2) http://www.freedompost.org/islam/deception/common-taqiyya-or-islamic-lies-and-deceptions-by-muslims.html
Your argument isn’t very bright. Don’t you know even basic principles of logic, or don’t you care abot them?
In the first place you didn’t show that Jews were expelled in all cases and didn’t leave because they wanted to leave. In the second place you didn’t show in any way that “Jewish action” had nothing to do with the fact that many Jews left or had to leave Arab countries. In the third place, your argument doesn’t show or tell anything about the causes of conflicts between Muslims and Christians. One of the causes for such conflicts may be wars instigated by Israel which caused possibly up to millions of victims.
Actually Pankaj Mishra shows in his book from the Ruins of the Empire that Europe was much admired in Asia and in Muslim countries untl they saw the results of European imperialism.
Your silly numbers in your propaganda graphic above doesn’t justify the expulsion of even one Palestinian from their lands by foreigners coming recently from Europe.
The Crime Syndicate link is bullcrap.
Meyer Lansky did not lead American organised crime; his life style and his family’s lack of wealth after his death proves it.
British intelligence and Foreign Office officials very strongly suspected Robert Maxwell’s father of Ghislaine, of being a Soviet agent, not an Israeli one. Robert Maxwell was a private soldier working as a labourer in WW2 when through connections of an officer’s widow he was romancing he got recommended for officer training. At this time he was calling himself Ivan du Maurier. He threatened to machine gun his own men, and shot dead all Germans surrendering , and also the mayor of a German town. Then he married a French woman and got a gigantic dowry; Auberon Waugh said with this start in the postwar environment he never understood why Robert Maxwell (who ceaselessly slept with his young female employees on the often false promise of financial assistance) was considered a good businessman.
Robert Maxwell was known for collecting prominent people into his orbit, and then humiliating them. For example he hired Peter Jay the (son in law of Prime Minister James Callaghan, and former British ambassador in Washington) and then had Jay phone up restaurants to make reservations. Twice Robert Maxwell embezzled vast sums of money while in a position of trust and after the first time he was publically castigated as unfit to be trusted, the second time he committed suicide rather that face the music.
Ghislaine Maxwell’s brainy sister, who was behind one of the internet’s first search engines married Seckel, and then was left holding the bag.
It is pretty clear to me why two of Maxwell’s girls ended up holding the bag. Ghislaine was entranced by Epstein because he was a man in the mold of her father. Unfortunately, her father was a total bastard who took the coward’s way out. Of course she could not see that
Ghislaine Maxwell had daddy issues and desperately wanted Jeffrey Epstein to marry her, but he was having too much fun as a rich pervert. I would note that Palm Springs, Florida in 2005 was not somewhere where Israel has been without influence enough to chill an investigation. It still isn’t. One wonders how a couple of doughnut scarfing redneck cops could bring down the most critically important operation Mossad would have had in the world. If Ghislaine Maxwell was an agent of Israel she would have gone there last year when this blew up. It’s possible Epstein would have refused to leave, but then there would have been a little tidying up; in a boating or maybe bondage accident, they certainly would not have wait until after he was in FBI custody.
It is all very well to think that a terrible thing has happened to Palestinians, though not as bad as what happened to American Indians, but the lesson is to make sure we do not end up like the Palestinians. If Sweden wants to send the Palestinians in Gaza money enabling them to procreate far more than Swedes do and creating a problem for Israel, then let Sweden take the excess population. But they won’t do that of course. The overcrowding in Gaza is very bad and only in part due to the Palestinian leadership having explicitly designated birthrate a weapon, but the Israelis are hardly comparable to Nazi for wanting some Palestinians in Gaza to go to Europe where their life would be objectively better in every way.
Of course Mr Atzmon protests that Palestinians have national rights. No they do not, because a right is something one can enforce. They do have the sympathy of the world but less than before because they turned down a deal from Ehud Barak that was better than anything they had been offered before. Not a good offer but a serious one, and they thought they could get much more as at Taba where they used the Barak’s rejected offer as a rock bottom starting point for making new demands . Then there was a campaign of suicide bombings that doomed Barak, and Israel built a wall. Palestinians are a militarily defeated people that did not come to terms when Israeli opinion was willing to give them something they could have built on. No, instead Palestinians created a feeling among Jewish Israelis that there was no dealing with Palestinians because they wanted it all.
It is not the job of Western leaders to fight for foreign underdog populations that ignore advice and get themselves into diplomatic dead ends, whatever Mr Giraldi thinks https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/impeachment-time/
It sometimes seems that in complaining about Israel the existence of all nation states is what Atzmon is protesting about. Western nations states being destroyed by economic migration (for that, not refugees, is the lion’s share of it) will be fine in his book. It is only when Palestinian nationalism is weakened by economic migration than he objects on the grounds that ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity. Every major power has nukes aimed at the others’ cities, but letting people who want to leave, leave, and aiding them with their travel costs is a war crime?
Finally the West has a leader who understands how to help the underdogs who elected him, and split the elite.
The US Constitution guarantees freedom of religion.
I keep looking for a place that has freedom from religion.
“They even called one of their own tribal member – a humanitarian conscientious Roosevelt government cabinet member as anti semite because that man tried hard to l relocate those starving Jews in European countries and in Northern NY instead of forcing them to go to Palestine in future .”
Morgenthau?
Story after story of Mizrahi Jews kicked out of Arab Muslim lands.
You write as if there weren’t serious works about such themes that contradict squarely your propaganda. I will just quote Naomi Klein in The shock doctrine (paperback edition), p. 434:
“Shlomo Ben-Ami, a lead negotiator for the Israeli government at both Camp David and Taba, broke ranks with the party line and admitted that “Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David as well.”
Ilan Pappe has shown that Israel never wanted peace.
This has everything to do with what they consider a virtue.
“Virtue of Hate” by Rabbi Meir Soloveichik – https://www.firstthings.com/article/2003/02/the-virtue-of-hate
“Can Hatred Be a Virtue?” by Shannon Gilreath, Professor of Law, Wake Forest University –
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/can-hatred-be-a-virtue_b_7674184
This is a Supremacist belief at its core. Instead of love, they are allowed to fully express and act on their “Virtue of Hate.” The notion of Tikkun Olam is fraudulent. Their idea of saving the world is being allowed to hate and it is only unique to them.
I agree and pressed the wrong button.
From their point of view it was a really crappy deal the Palestinians were offered, but hardly one Israel could have been sure that the Palestinians would reject, especially as the the Pals perhaps could have accepted with the intention of building on it to get a sweeter outcome. Clinton would have been thankful, being seen as a genius, and there would have been plenty of other international goodwill for Pals. Predicting the Pal rejection of Barak’s offer and the suicide bombings on Israeli civilians that came afterwards and played into the hands of the Israeli right by politically crucifying Ehud Barak would have been difficult for Israeli strategists, so I think it was a serious offer on Israel’s part. Consider: if the Pals were offered the same deal today would they be as likely to decline?
Ben-Ami refused to serve in the Sharon government, he was of Barak’s school of thought, so it does not surprise me he thought that Camp David was not an attractive offer for Pals the time, but in retrospect it is perhaps not as obvious that they should have declined the Camp David offer which was on the table at a time when the Iron Wall was but a metaphor. The Palestinians suicide bombing against civilians made it a reality
Ilan Pappe lives in Britain and is one of the Jews behind the disinvestment moment. The press tries to pretend it is the hard left and Muslims, but no; it is almost entirely Jewish academics and Israeli expatriate Jews that thought up the disinvestment and boycotting campaign. He wants a bi national state. Bi-nationalist Pappe is an important voice, but he sees nationalism as a sin. Benny Morris was once a revisionist viewed in the same light to Pappe. Morris was poised to leave Israel when the PM called to come and see him and asked if Morris if he thought Israel had the right to remain a Jewish state. Answering in the affirmative meant a university job was offered to him.
‘Story after story of Mizrahi Jews kicked out of Arab Muslim lands.’
Something the Zionists themselves did absolutely nothing to bring about, of course.
‘Your argument isn’t very bright…’
A123 is a Zionist. You have to adjust your expectations.
‘Ilan Pappe has shown that Israel never wanted peace.’
That really needs to be accepted as a given. Peace would be fatal to Israel. To maintain a sufficient sense of national identity, she needs an enemy at the gates.
In point of fact, whenever the social stresses grow too great, voila — ‘terrorist attack.’ Then the various tribes of Jews drop their quarrels and rush to the ramparts. Lather, rinse, and repeat.
The most spectacular example of this I recall came something like ten years back. There were increasingly large Jewish protests about some economic issue or other: massive demonstrations, and getting larger every day.
Then there was a rather suspicious ‘terrorist attack.’ Some party of gunmen crossed over from Sinai and ambushed an IDF patrol, killing six or so.
Never mind that it all happened two hundred miles from Gaza, that Hamas disavowed any connection, and that no reason was ever presented to think there was a connection. It was Hamas. Let’s mobilize everyone and bomb the shit out of Gaza.
Sixty dead Palestinians later (or was it two hundred?), the demonstrations are all forgotten about, all the Jews are happy, and everything’s right with the world again — well, until the stresses build up again. But Israel knows what to do about that.
She keeps the solution right at hand.
Funny, a super troll calling someone a troll. Typical Jewish/Zio tactic. Blame others for what you are. Hasbara AND projecting!
Classic plan. First demonize them thoroughly, then it’s okay to do anything to them!!!
Lying comes naturally to these Jews when dealing with the outside world. It”s sanctioned by their psychotic rabbis. Then they blame muslims for taqiyya, which they hardly understand!!!!with them it’s anything goes
Mention of the Jewish exodus from Arab lands really doesn’t help your cause, Mr. Maher, since it occurred many decades after wave upon wave of European Jew began imposing themselves themselves upon the indigenous people of Palestine, their design culminating in widespread Jewish terror attacks throughout 1947-8, unilateral declaration of Israeli statehood in defiance of the UN, and the implementation of Plan Dalet, intended to depopulate Palestine of most of its Arabs.
You’re just bringing more attention to the cause of the exodus, which was Israel.
Thanks.
For as long as you continue to peddle hasbara about Taba, we’ll continue to call it out for what it is:
That’s Shlomo Ben-Ami speaking. Your word doesn’t carry more weight than his.
Now, Sean … We caught you peddling the old “Jordan is Palestine” myth not too long ago. Usually you’re a bit more cautious with your approach, but after that slip, you’re wholly transparent.
I’m sure it won’t stop you, though. Keep fooling yourself.
/That really needs to be accepted as a given./
Agreed.
It’s best to refer to any “security fence” or “border wall” as a front line, since Israel refuses to agree upon internationally recognized borders, choosing to place itself on a perpetual war footing with everyone beyond that line.
At Taba further concessions were made, but Arafat held out for right of return and Sharon was elected. The suicide bombing restarted September 2000, which was predictable as military (or terrorist if you prefer) pressure on Barack had worked. But the Palestinians had overplayed their hand
The international community pressed Israel for restraint. A few months after 9/11 Al Fatah claimed a suicide bombing.
The actual positions taken at Taba are a matter of dispute, but one thing we can be quite certain of is that no Israeli leader will in the future dare offer anything like the deal Barak did at Taba. That was the high water mark of the effectiveness of Palestinian pressure. Whether the Palestinians thought in the light of subsequent experience they had been wise to reject what Barak offered can be judged by the subsequent history.
Well, you’re being your typically obtuse self yet again, so I’ll provide the following solely for the purpose of setting the record straight:
/The suicide bombing restarted September 2000./
This has nothing to do with the Taba talks, which were held between January 21-27 in 2001.
But even if you’re attempting to create the illusion that Palestinians began suicide bombing as a reaction to the collapse of Camp David on July 25, 2000, you would still be incorrect.
After Camp David, negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians continued behind closed doors …
What this history demonstrates is that Israel never entered post-Camp David negotiations (prior to the Intifada) in good faith. Had they done so, they would not have continued to violate Oslo II and demolish Palestinian homes with the intent of expanding settlement building.
/The actual positions taken at Taba are a matter of dispute/
Only to folks who, like you, have something to hide.
In fact, they are not a matter of dispute. Ben-Ami said it plainly and no amount of spin-doctoring will change the fact that it was Israeli public opinion which scuttled the Taba talks, not Arafat’s demand for the right of return — the stipulations of which were even considered by Israel, according to your very own Wiki link:
Of course the Zionists, being who they are, never wanted it. And regardless of how bleak things look for Palestinians right now, there will come a day when Israel pays a steep price for its obstinate avarice.
Go on and deny that. I could care less. When you pass the threshold of your grave, it’ll be too late to change your mind.
And let’s not forget about White Nakba in the West.
This phrase lacks internal self consistemcy:
Around ~600AD wave upon wave of Arab Muslims stole the lands of Palestinian Jews the indigenous people of Palestine. The War Criminals of the United Nazis [UN] issued a unilateral declaration stealing Jewish Palestinian land. However, all rational parties agree that War Criminals are not a credible source of ‘International Law’.
As the UN-azis have neither credibility nor standing, International Law continues to be governed by the fair 1920’s compromise where Arab Muslims obtained over 75% of Palestine.

PEACE may be possible. Muslim Arabs currently occupying Jewish Palestinian land are in possession of stolen property, but they are not the thieves who stole it. Giving foreign Arabs an honourable option, assistance to leave stolen Palestinian property, is WIN-WIN common sense proposition.
This is what the Violent Iranian extremists of al’Hamas fear the most. 10% of the Gaza population (~200,000) could emigrate to success and prosperity. With that as proof that there is a better option, the flood gates would open. The foreign Arab Muslim de-colonization of Jewish Palestine would become an obvious, inevitable truth visible for all to see.
PEACE 😇
/Around ~600AD wave upon wave of Arab Muslims stole the lands of Palestinian Jews the indigenous people of Palestine./
Hilarious, particularly considering the fact that Jews weren’t even in possession of the Holy Land when Muslims took the reins of it from Byzantium in the 7th century C.E. What’s more, were it not for the Muslims, Jews would have remained a non-entity there:
In fact, Jews would have perished altogether were it not for the Muslim ascent to power:
Written by no less than a Jewish professor of Jewish Studies at Vanderbilt University. Hardly worthy of your typical “jihadi” epithet, no?
In any event, thanks for the chuckle. It’s entertaining to envision you as you write those unhinged screeds: pupils fully dilated, eyes protruding just beyond their sockets, neck and jaw muscles taught, betraying an inevitable rise of blood pressure and furtive grinding of teeth …
Take care not to bust a vessel, would you?
‘The population of Gaza is doubling every 15 years or so. Gazans subsist thanks to the rich Arab states’ generosity. There is no solution for Gaza…’
That’s ridiculous. Of course there’s a solution for Gaza.
Israel is the state that exercises sovereignty over Gaza. Let the inhabitants of Gaza enjoy their full rights as citizens of the democratic state of Israel.
‘Around ~600AD wave upon wave of Arab Muslims stole the lands of Palestinian Jews the indigenous people of Palestine. ‘
It’s been explained to you before that this is a notion with no basis at all in historical fact.
It has become fashionable to label anyone with a message not to your liking, as a “troll.” The message must be getting through to the enemy. So, I see nothing wrong in being a “troll.”
On the other hand, a zionist lowlife mfer… *retch* oh, the vileness… *puke*
Dear Mr. Atzmon,
What is the “endgame” here, for Israel ?
What does it look like ?
Let us assume that Israel gets “everything” it wants…what does that mean, in terms of the reality on the ground ?
Does it mean that all of Gaza and all of the West Bank become incorporated into Greater Israel ?
Does it mean that all of Jerusalem, too, is absorbed into Greater Israel ?
Does it mean that the vast majority of Palestinians living within these areas will be either expelled or exterminated ?
Does it mean that the millions of refugees who are descendants of the Palestinians forced out in 1948 must be absorbed within the countries where they currently reside ?
Is this what Israelis want ?
Is this their “endgame” ?
Does anyone have clarity on this ?
Anon starter……… hmmmm sounds like something from …….mondoweiss.
Things must be desperate if you are now commenting here……did you apply for refugee status
Only your point of view counts and MARK MY WORDS……obstinate avarice indeed.
Taba could have saved many lives and led to a peaceful political solution over time but the suicide bombing route was chosen instead.
Here you are quiet happily agreeing with that.
Well this time round there is a differnt peace deal.
Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised and who knows,israel might become the paradise you want with 72 virgins waiting to welcome you
When do they start relocating millions of Palestinians to the US? An odd turn of events, if the huge migrations of the last decades did not occur, relocating all the Palestinians to the US and Europe might have been easy to accomplish.
Reading your post I have an idea, exchange Jewish populations in the US and Europe for Palestinians. It’s win win!!!
I will not leap into my grave to be buried alive in the expectation I could stage a successful comeback, as the Palestinians did at Taba.
The suicide bombings by Hamas were suspended for Camp David and started up again shortly afterwards, when they were said to be a response to Sharon (known for the 1982 massacre of Palestinians in a refugee camp in Lebanon) having visited the Temple Mount. This very personage was trying to unseat Barak as prime minister of Israel. If the Palestinian organisations’ leaderships had possessed the intellect of a drugged cockroach they would have realised that the Intifada and Hamas suicide bombing were playing into Sharon’s hands every bit as much as they were pressuring Barak to make concessions. They should also have realised that they had to make the deal with Barak in the short time before the effect of their tactics on Israeli public opinion removed Barak from office.
Israeli public opinion viewed the right of return as a massive demographic gift to the Palestinians. If as you say, Ben-Ami and Barak were willing to give limited though unprecedented concessions on right of return at Taba then such was was surely connected with Israel public opinion begining to think Barak was giving too much ground in the face of the bombings. Most importantly, the Palestinians were quite understandably getting the impression that Intifada and suicide massacres of Jewish civilians were the way to get something like a full right of return, which would be be seen by all as a total victory for the Palestinian leadership. The Palestinians did not seem to realise that Sharon was a very different kettle of fish to Barak, and Sharon would be in power if they did not take what was offered at Taba, which while not good would have, within months, seen them sitting in an actual Palestinian statelet, which though below their requirements, could perhaps be built on.
Israeli public opinion in the run up to the election was not only pondering whether Barak’s soft line was encouraging terrorism, Israelis had to be considering whether Barak’s unprecedented concessions at Taba were a brave long term statesman-like act or something to do with him wanting to remain Prime Minister of Israel. In any event the outcome is well known: the Palestinians rejected the Taba deal, and within a year Sharon announced the Israeli West Bank barrier. The Palestinians realised their mistake, but too late.
So instead of the substructure of an entity they could perhaps build up to tolerable statehood, they watched the construction of a high wall with extremely deep foundations that is intended to forever separate them from their land. Great thinking!
/The suicide bombings by Hamas were suspended for Camp David and started up again shortly afterwards, when they were said to be a response to Sharon (known for the 1982 massacre of Palestinians in a refugee camp in Lebanon) having visited the Temple Mount./
Well, that airbrushes a lot of criminality on behalf of Israel that occurred in the interim. You’re fairly consistent with doing that, as you are with dealing in the coin of conjecture. One good example:
/the Palestinians were quite understandably getting the impression that Intifada and suicide massacres of Jewish civilians were the way to get something like a full right of return/
Not only were most of the targets military (totaling a mere 6 fatalities), you really have no means of divining what you claim. None whatsoever.
And then, after that tediously prodigal expense of verbiage, you repeat the lie that the Palestinians rejected the Taba deal — in spite of the fact that you earlier admitted the actual positions taken at Taba were “a matter of dispute.”
So we know which side of the dispute you fall on.
Thanks for the admission. It saves us a lot of time.
/I will not leap into my grave to be buried alive in the expectation I could stage a successful comeback/
Oh, quite certainly. You have no idea.
Yet another flushed out of the woodwork, with the yentacular Fran affixing approval of his phishing expedition, no less.
You’re way off, kahin, but more than welcome to that fire you seem to enjoy.
Arafat publicly accepted what was offered at Taba, in June 2002, which was 18 months after the Taba negotiations had ended, and not only after the offer made by Barak was off the table, but when he was no longer in office. .
It was by this time clear to Arafat his strategy of encouraging the violence was counterproductive, and he could not control the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, which says it is Fatah’s military wing. Arafat just held out a little too long to see what else would be forthcoming from Israel and the moment at Taba passed. Within 18 months he realised a bad mistake had been made and the suicide bombings had been a disaster for the Palestinian cause, but it was too late.
Why the Palestinians thought Sharon would be the the same kind of Israeli PM as Barak I have no idea. You obviously have now idea that Atzmon is against all nation states not just the Jewish one, just as he thinks it is healthy to be disgusted with one’s self
/Does anyone have clarity on this ?/
Their endgame is premised upon
1) their interpretation of God’s promise to Abraham as recorded in Genesis, by which they assert unconditional entitlement to the lands extending from the length of the Nile to the headwaters of the Euphrates, a swathe of land that incorporates the Arabian Peninsula, and
2) their interpretation of sacred text which necessitates subjugation of goyim to their hegemony, wherever it reaches.
Hope that helps.
Moving Muslim colonizers from Jewish Palestine to Christian lands in the U.S. and Europe will not help. The solution is obvious. The Muslim colonial era is at an end and the violent Islamic occupying colonizers must return to Muslim lands.
Here is a WIN-WIN idea… Qom should be the capital of New Muslim Palestine. After all Iran loves them, and a key PLO demand is having a important religious city as a capital.
Islam is supposed to contain a “Pillar of Charity”. If true, Islam needs to act by helping the descendants of colonizers return home. Or, is the “Pillar of Charity” just another Taqiyya lie to Infidels?
PEACE 😇
You mean you have been caught distorting history multiple times. Here is the simple test *AGAIN*. Try not to fail this time.
How many Muslims were in Palestine at the following dates:
— 400 BC?
— 200 BC?
— 0 BC/AD?
— 200 AD?
— 400 AD?
Islam has no indigenous presence in Palestine. The correct answer to each question above is ZERO.
Islam stole all of the Palestinian land currently colonized by Muslims. If you want to say that Muslims stole the land from Christians who stole the land from someone else … Fair enough. It is still stolen property no matter how many times it changes hands.
Ultimately peace requires Atonement. Islam giving back some of the lands that they stole would be a good start.
So…. Does Islam want peace? Or, does Islam want Conquest (Jihad)?
PEACE 😇
Two responses ago, you wrote
/If as you say, Ben-Ami and Barak were willing to give limited though unprecedented concessions on right of return at Taba then such was was surely connected with Israel public opinion begining to think Barak was giving too much ground in the face of the bombings. Most importantly, the Palestinians were quite understandably getting the impression that Intifada and suicide massacres of Jewish civilians were the way to get something like a full right of return, which would be be seen by all as a total victory for the Palestinian leadership./
So it’s clear that the suicide bombings you mention here fell in the time period after Camp David and before Taba — which yielded a grand total of six fatalities, mostly soldiers.
As such, the 2002 bombings you mention are entirely irrelevant to your argument, since, as you correctly state, they occurred well after Taba ended and would not possibly have been perceived as a negotiation tactic in the run-up to those talks.
Vacillating between pre- and post-Taba suicide attacks doesn’t make your conjecture appear more credible, Sean. It just makes you look dishonest.
/he thinks it is healthy to be disgusted with one’s self/
Then he’s on to something. You would certainly stand to benefit from it.
It helps a bit……Thank you.
The area you describe is much much larger than historic Palestine.
I am trying to get clarity on Israels designs for the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan heights ?
If ( lets say ) Israel got “everything” it wanted vis-a-vis these strategic areas …today …….How would this translate in terms of demographics and geography ?
What would Israel look like ?
https://ibb.co/RHnX6gJ
Ah, you guys lost war after war. Had you won we would be gone. We won you are gone.
That is the way of conquest and acquisition.
Look India just took over Kashmir.
The Palestinians are losers, losers do not get to dictate the right of who lives there and who doesn’t a stupid right of return for 4 generations of millions of people that fit no legal refugee status as refugees require one generation only, and if a citizen of another country will also cause forfeiture of refugee status.
You do not lose and get to load the finish results. Years ago it would have been possible to come to a sort of fair conclusion. Now get lost.
Think if you won in 1948, 1967 would you negotiate with us? LOL
The Arabs are pathetically stuck emotionally at the age of 4.
Was there a Jewish temple under Al Aqsa ? Just answer the question.
It is a competency/ reality test.
Brilliant
Whoa!!!! That’s just crazy talk. Asking Iranian government Trolls to *face reality*?
What’s Next! Trying to get them to admit the TRUTH?
I admire your sense of optimism, but *reality and truth* out of professional Trolls like AS and CW is waaaayyyy too much to ask.
PEACE 😇
What if the “ethnic cleansing” of “all” Palestinians from Greater Israel turns out to be a “booby trap” ?
Once the Greater Israel project is complete and 94% of the Palestinians have been either killed, driven out, or have left “voluntarily”……Is it not the case that Iran will no longer be “restrained” in attacking Israel …..for fear of killing Palestinians ?
Doesn’t this just pave the way for Iran to borrow a megaton nuke from Pakistan and drop it on Tel Aviv ?
The “uber-nakba” of Palestine, followed by a total “nuke” nakba …..of all of Israel ?
Once Iran has nuked Israel , in response to its ethnic cleansing of Palestine….will the millions of Palestinian refugees who have been forced to languish for decades , outside of Israel , finally return home to rebuild “their” country …..in peace ?
Will the entire middle east “rejoice” in celebration , at finally being freed from the clutches of the “cruel and barbarous” “Zionist Entity” ?
Is this one possible scenario within the next decade or so ?
Is this , perhaps ,the real reason “end the carnage” Trump had to tear up the “carnage ending” JCPOA ?
Is this the “real” reason Trump had to “double down” on US military spending, after promising to end all the wars ?
The idea that “Iran” , the last great protector of Palestine, must be preemptively destroyed, NOW, in order to forestall this “worst case” scenario unfolding for Greater Israel, down the line ?
Anyone care to weigh in on this ?
‘Brilliant’
Actually, it was so inane it didn’t merit a response.
Germany was invaded by Christians.
How many Christians were there in Germany in 200 BC?
Huh, huh?
‘…Anyone care to weigh in on this ?’
Other problems aside, your attempt to rationalize genocidal aggression depends on the assumption that Iran would be prepared to commit national suicide for the sake of striking a blow at Israel.
No nation in all of human history has ever behaved that way. Nations only mount attacks if they think they can win.
‘…Was there a Jewish temple under Al Aqsa ? Just answer the question.
It is a competency/ reality test.
Whoa!!!! That’s just crazy talk. Asking Iranian government Trolls to *face reality*?’
It’s mildly comic that both you and A123 manage to totally misconstrue the significance of the Muslims going to considerable trouble to build al Aqsa exactly where the Jewish temple had been six hundred years earlier.
Islam, of course, sees itself as the original revelation of Judaism and Christianity, purified of the errors and corruption that had crept in over time. Of course al Aqsa was to go where the temple had been. It was the temple, rebuilt.
This isn’t hard or obscure. You just have to accept the truth. Islam is your religion, cleaned up some.
That’s a matter of opinion, of course — but it is the gist of the matter.
Your logorrhea in a nutshell: might = right.
Since it’s just might used against you, you should forego any further complaints about “Muslim terrorism.”
https://www.wrmea.org/011-august/misunderstandings-about-jerusalem-s-temple-mount.html
/Actually, it was so inane it didn’t merit a response./
Everyone here but the lobotomized or Zionists know it as well.
But I repeat myself.
/Islam is your religion, cleaned up some./
Oh, he knows that much, if not much at all.
In fact, both him and Fran are well aware of it, but they want to “keep it in the family,” which is why they become such inveterate enemies of a religion that doesn’t impose an ethnic litmus test on its adherents.
Were conduct the sole criterion for salvation, they’d have to work at it. Can’t have that.
” despite the Israeli communication with European leaders and even countries in the region, so far, no country has agreed to participate in the Israeli crime and absorb the ethnically cleansed Gazans.”
Let’s watch for Trump’s tweet on the subject. Surely he has enough love in his heart for the dispossessed victims of Israel..er..I mean valuable new additions to the American citizenry.
/Had you won we would be gone./
Actually, when we won, you weren’t gone.
See my response to your fellow hasbarista above, which demonstrates but one important difference between us: respect for a subject people’s self-determination.
I have a few words for you Roman history, Flavius Joseph.
History of the Roman Empire.
Find Herods Temple, the GPS is right there.
My point exactly you are hopelessly ignorant.
History
The Dead Sea scrolls, Jesus etc.
All of Islam before Israel called the Al Aqsa the site of the Jewish Temple.
Look at your own history and scripture.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/03/30/opinion/sunday/jerusalem-city-of-david-israel-dig.html
If Palestinians are so wonderful why doesn’t anyone want them?
Palestinians are wonderful. They have hopelessly stupid leaders, and a religion in need of a major update with the Jews, and recognition by religious leaders that the Jews have every right to be there.
carrot and stick btw no subsidies from the welfare queens of Pissrael they threaten with death, oppression racial genocide, water denial aka communist terror tactics while at the same time trying to provide a “relief” valve to mitigate the resistance mindset…further proof the Palestinians are the rightful heirs to the land and the Israel nothing but jewish bolshevik zionist squatter with zero right to the land or their corporate Talpiot/uniot8200 etc empires of theft, murder, conspiracy, intrigue and monopolistic glow in the dark fraud
Arabs blame their ‘leaders’ for making things worse. A quote from 2015 poll results: (1)
Voluntary relocation schemes have a chance. Arabs want to leave Jewish Palestine: (2)
If you do not like this poll, search for others. Results like these have been consistent for years.
If only 25% of Gaza residents are willing to volunteer for compensated relocation, that is still a 500,000+ population base to launch New Muslim Palestine. Arab civilians deserve the ability to ‘vote with their feet’ by leaving over the objections of violent ‘leaders’. Fatah and Hamas are more interested in hate & power than helping their people.
PEACE
__________
(1) http://www.thetower.org/1739-poll-gaza-residents-blame-hamas-for-palestinian-division/
(2) https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=765875