such an act is called ethnic cleansing and is considered a crime against humanity under the statutes of the International Criminal Court (ICC).

You are right. ethnic cleansing is a problem. Let’s start by investigating the Muslim countries that cleansed their Jewish populations.

Given the known bias of the Islamic Criminal Court [ICC], Step #1 will be finding a credible venue.

PEACE

Well, most ‘Gazans’ aren’t indigenous to Gaza. The Jews drove them into the enclave in 1948.

The process really is kind of a soft-core, slow-motion version of what the Zionists’ gentile antecedents did in 1941-1943. First the Nazis drove masses of Jews into the ghettos of Warsaw, Minsk, Riga, et al, then they moved them on for a more final solution.

The Jews aren’t as free to act, so they’ve had to proceed more slowly, and settle for a less definitive final solution, but it’s the same concept. Unlike as with Germany, for Israel, sending all the ‘Jews’ to Madagascar really is within the realm of feasibility.

They can afford to be nice guys.

Anyway, strictly speaking this strategy isn’t new.

The Jews have long sought to move as many Palestinians as possible as far away as possible. In this context, it’s morbidly comic to consider what would be the one feasible destination physically most distant from Palestine.

Chile? And sure enough: Chile has a strangely large Palestinian population.

NO ‘Zionist’ button. This is a problem. It’s like going down to the hardware store and discovering they don’t carry rat poison.

I know You are a Troll.
. You know you are a Troll.
. . *EVERYONE* knows you are a Troll.

If you do not have anything meaningful to add, please be silent and let the adults talk.

PEACE 😇

‘If you do not have anything meaningful to add, please be silent and let the adults talk.’

As of your post, the only people ‘talking’ on this thread are you and me. Are you proposing you be allowed to spew your Zionist filth undisturbed?

Wait just a momemt while my brain sorts this out. Zion has been shouting at the world for decades about how the Palestinians are terrorists, man, woman and child, mindless haters and that this is why they have to be denied all human rights.

Now they want to export all these haters to the rest of the world?

The population of Gaza is doubling every 15 years or so. Gazans subsist thanks to the rich Arab states’ generosity. There is no solution for Gaza, as there is none for Haiti and say, Upper Volta (Burkina Faso). Gaza was Egyptian territory, but they did not want them and built a wall to stop them infiltrating to Sinai. Egypt does not allow Gazans to enter its territory. They know them too well.

Are you really trying to pretend that the crimes of “the jewish state” don’t matter because ‘islam’, whilst that self same “jewish” state, created and maintained by terrorists from it’s inception continues the slaughter and mutilation of of the rightful inheritors of the land now occupied by international “jews”?

Whilst it’s true that “jews” have been expelled from just about every country where they settled over the centuries, those expulsions were entirely warrented by the behaviour of “the jews”. Behaviour which, despite the distance of time, every one of us can appreciate today as “gods chosen” continue to shit all over any population which stands in the way of their despotic ambitions.

Your comments are typically weak, snide
and without merrit.

Jews staged attacks against Jews to make them flee to Israel. Jews repeated the feats in Iraq Yemen Lebanon Syria. Jews are master in it. They did same by refusing to save Jews in Europe . Saving Jews in Europe would have not added the stupid poor sheep Jews to the caravan that Jews were creating and leading to the promised land . Jews are good at it .Now they blame the Europeans and demand money to be given to the state of israel because Europe refused to take the Jews . Jews are good at it. They even called one of their own tribal member – a humanitarian conscientious Roosevelt government cabinet member as anti semite because that man tried hard to l relocate those starving Jews in European countries and in Northern NY instead of forcing them to go to Palestine in future .

Likudniks to France and ask other Jew to leave because one or two jew had died . Very soon they would says Antisemitism and state of France are responsible and world needs to make new laws for the Jews and France needs to agree to give billions to Israel .

Lies might be meaningful but is still do same what troll from you does. Do not lie. What part of this advice don’t you understand? 1 part 2 part or 3 part, 123 ?

Wow, Mr. Atzmon,

It seems like everything is coming neatly into place for the “Greater Israel” project.

Once the people of Gaza have been fully expunged and exterminated, what’s next ?

Will Israel remake the coastal enclave into a gleaming and spectacular resort destination…replete with hotels , casino’s and shopping malls ?

Will Gaza be given a new name…like Bibi-aritz…or Netan-aza ?

What is the master plan ?

Does anyone know ?

If your premise “Jewish action is solely responsible for the reduction of the Jewish population” is true, then there should be no reduction in other releigions, such as Christians, in those territories.

Now the facts about Christian populations in Muslim majority nations (1):

100 years ago Christians comprised 20 percent of the population in the Middle East and north Africa, but since then the proportion has fallen to less than 4 percent, or roughly 15 million people. … In the Middle East and north Africa, the report says, “forms of persecution ranging from routine discrimination in education, employment and social life up to genocidal attacks against Christian communities have led to a significant exodus of Christian believers from this region since the turn of the century.”

Your premise is obviously not supported by the facts.

The TRUTH is — Muslims ethnically cleansed the Jews first and are now trying to exterminate the Christian population.
____

The Muslim faith requires the practice of Taqiyya (2), lying to the Infidel. Especially, about the religious requirement to practice Jihad, the conquest of Infidels.

There is one easy test to know when someone is a Taqiyya liar. They scream ‘Hasbara’ in an attempt deflect attention from their deceptions.

PEACE

__________________

(1) https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2019/05/03/the-vanishing-report-exposes-persecution-of-middle-east-christians-as-close-to-genocide/

(2) http://www.freedompost.org/islam/deception/common-taqiyya-or-islamic-lies-and-deceptions-by-muslims.html

If your premise “Jewish action is solely responsible for the reduction of the Jewish population” is true, then there should be no reduction in other releigions, such as Christians, in those territories.

Your argument isn’t very bright. Don’t you know even basic principles of logic, or don’t you care abot them?

In the first place you didn’t show that Jews were expelled in all cases and didn’t leave because they wanted to leave. In the second place you didn’t show in any way that “Jewish action” had nothing to do with the fact that many Jews left or had to leave Arab countries. In the third place, your argument doesn’t show or tell anything about the causes of conflicts between Muslims and Christians. One of the causes for such conflicts may be wars instigated by Israel which caused possibly up to millions of victims.

Actually Pankaj Mishra shows in his book from the Ruins of the Empire that Europe was much admired in Asia and in Muslim countries untl they saw the results of European imperialism.

Your silly numbers in your propaganda graphic above doesn’t justify the expulsion of even one Palestinian from their lands by foreigners coming recently from Europe.

The Crime Syndicate link is bullcrap.

http://www.organized-crime.de/revlac01.htm
Robert Lacey’s description of Meyer Lansky’s life is illuminating and insightful. Carefully weighing the evidence, “Little Man” puts Lansky’s dealings as a gambling entrepreneur in perspective with Meyer Lansky as a family man and as a public figure who’s importance has been blown out of proportion in sensationalistic media accounts. “Fantasy”, Lacey stresses, “is an integral element of how organized crime is experienced, perceived, and reported” (p. 394). Behind the shrouds of unsubstantiated allegations Lacey portrays “a professional gambler who had been caught dodging his taxes. A crook, yes – the crook, no” (p. 489).

Meyer Lansky did not lead American organised crime; his life style and his family’s lack of wealth after his death proves it.

British intelligence and Foreign Office officials very strongly suspected Robert Maxwell’s father of Ghislaine, of being a Soviet agent, not an Israeli one. Robert Maxwell was a private soldier working as a labourer in WW2 when through connections of an officer’s widow he was romancing he got recommended for officer training. At this time he was calling himself Ivan du Maurier. He threatened to machine gun his own men, and shot dead all Germans surrendering , and also the mayor of a German town. Then he married a French woman and got a gigantic dowry; Auberon Waugh said with this start in the postwar environment he never understood why Robert Maxwell (who ceaselessly slept with his young female employees on the often false promise of financial assistance) was considered a good businessman.

Robert Maxwell was known for collecting prominent people into his orbit, and then humiliating them. For example he hired Peter Jay the (son in law of Prime Minister James Callaghan, and former British ambassador in Washington) and then had Jay phone up restaurants to make reservations. Twice Robert Maxwell embezzled vast sums of money while in a position of trust and after the first time he was publically castigated as unfit to be trusted, the second time he committed suicide rather that face the music.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Seckel
A 2015 profile of Seckel in Tablet Magazine by Mark Oppenheimer detailed several first-person accounts from individuals who reported that Seckel still owed them money including the widow of one of his mentors, his lawyer, a graduate student, and those who had engaged in rare book deals. The article stated that there were at least 25 cases involving Seckel from 1992 to 2015 in the Los Angeles Superior Court database.[2] Oppenheimer reported that Seckel cultivated a false image, both with personal contacts and within the media, of himself as a graduate from Cornell with degrees in physics and math, as an affiliate of and candidate for doctoral degrees at CalTech, and as a scientist conducting research in conjunction with colleagues at Harvard University. Some of these inaccuracies were published in media coverage of Seckel, including in the Los Angeles Times in 1985[7] and 1987.[8][2]

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/191806/the-illusionist-al-seckel Seckel’s unique genius was his catholicity of taste. Milling around his parties were not only the B- and C-list celebrities requisite in L.A. but Nobel Prize-winning physicists, MacArthur “genius prize” winners, tech entrepreneurs, oddball futurists, and magicians. There were actors, musicians, and fringe entertainment types, plus academics associated with nearby Caltech and the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Catherine Mohr, a noted innovator in surgical robotics and a longtime friend of Seckel’s, met the Nobel laureates Murray Gell-Mann and Francis Crick at Seckel’s parties. “He loves bringing together people of interesting backgrounds and seeing the chemistry of them,” Mohr told me “He would bring everyone together the way Hearst would bring people to his castle,” Edwards said. One of the biggest names he met through Seckel was physicist Richard Feynman.

Ghislaine Maxwell’s brainy sister, who was behind one of the internet’s first search engines married Seckel, and then was left holding the bag.

It is pretty clear to me why two of Maxwell’s girls ended up holding the bag. Ghislaine was entranced by Epstein because he was a man in the mold of her father. Unfortunately, her father was a total bastard who took the coward’s way out. Of course she could not see that

https://www.unz.com/emargolis/the-honey-trap-on-e-71st/
Bizarrely, Maxwell believed that I could get KGB Moscow Center to release satellite photos that showed the murder on his yacht of her father, the press baron Robert Maxwell, who was a well-known double agent for Israel and KGB, and a major criminal.

Ghislaine Maxwell had daddy issues and desperately wanted Jeffrey Epstein to marry her, but he was having too much fun as a rich pervert. I would note that Palm Springs, Florida in 2005 was not somewhere where Israel has been without influence enough to chill an investigation. It still isn’t. One wonders how a couple of doughnut scarfing redneck cops could bring down the most critically important operation Mossad would have had in the world. If Ghislaine Maxwell was an agent of Israel she would have gone there last year when this blew up. It’s possible Epstein would have refused to leave, but then there would have been a little tidying up; in a boating or maybe bondage accident, they certainly would not have wait until after he was in FBI custody.

It is all very well to think that a terrible thing has happened to Palestinians, though not as bad as what happened to American Indians, but the lesson is to make sure we do not end up like the Palestinians. If Sweden wants to send the Palestinians in Gaza money enabling them to procreate far more than Swedes do and creating a problem for Israel, then let Sweden take the excess population. But they won’t do that of course. The overcrowding in Gaza is very bad and only in part due to the Palestinian leadership having explicitly designated birthrate a weapon, but the Israelis are hardly comparable to Nazi for wanting some Palestinians in Gaza to go to Europe where their life would be objectively better in every way.

Of course Mr Atzmon protests that Palestinians have national rights. No they do not, because a right is something one can enforce. They do have the sympathy of the world but less than before because they turned down a deal from Ehud Barak that was better than anything they had been offered before. Not a good offer but a serious one, and they thought they could get much more as at Taba where they used the Barak’s rejected offer as a rock bottom starting point for making new demands . Then there was a campaign of suicide bombings that doomed Barak, and Israel built a wall. Palestinians are a militarily defeated people that did not come to terms when Israeli opinion was willing to give them something they could have built on. No, instead Palestinians created a feeling among Jewish Israelis that there was no dealing with Palestinians because they wanted it all.

It is not the job of Western leaders to fight for foreign underdog populations that ignore advice and get themselves into diplomatic dead ends, whatever Mr Giraldi thinks https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/impeachment-time/

It sometimes seems that in complaining about Israel the existence of all nation states is what Atzmon is protesting about. Western nations states being destroyed by economic migration (for that, not refugees, is the lion’s share of it) will be fine in his book. It is only when Palestinian nationalism is weakened by economic migration than he objects on the grounds that ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity. Every major power has nukes aimed at the others’ cities, but letting people who want to leave, leave, and aiding them with their travel costs is a war crime?

Finally the West has a leader who understands how to help the underdogs who elected him, and split the elite.

ttps://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-trump-accuses-jewish-democrats-of-great-disloyalty/
Finally, in the 8th paragraph, the NYT prints the quote from Trump, which finally makes it perfectly obvious that Trump was talking about loyalty to Israel.

“Where has the Democratic Party gone?” Mr. Trump said in the Oval Office, at the tail end of a freewheeling round of comments to reporters during a visit by the president of Romania. “Where have they gone where they are defending these two people over the state of Israel? And I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty.”

The US Constitution guarantees freedom of religion.

I keep looking for a place that has freedom from religion.

“They even called one of their own tribal member – a humanitarian conscientious Roosevelt government cabinet member as anti semite because that man tried hard to l relocate those starving Jews in European countries and in Northern NY instead of forcing them to go to Palestine in future .”

Morgenthau?

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/10/books/10book.html

Story after story of Mizrahi Jews kicked out of Arab Muslim lands.

You write as if there weren’t serious works about such themes that contradict squarely your propaganda. I will just quote Naomi Klein in The shock doctrine (paperback edition), p. 434:

“Shlomo Ben-Ami, a lead negotiator for the Israeli government at both Camp David and Taba, broke ranks with the party line and admitted that “Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David as well.”

Ilan Pappe has shown that Israel never wanted peace.

Jewish State is making a real effort to redefine the notion of Jewish ‘kindness’

This has everything to do with what they consider a virtue.
“Virtue of Hate” by Rabbi Meir Soloveichik – https://www.firstthings.com/article/2003/02/the-virtue-of-hate
“Can Hatred Be a Virtue?” by Shannon Gilreath, Professor of Law, Wake Forest University –
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/can-hatred-be-a-virtue_b_7674184

This is a Supremacist belief at its core. Instead of love, they are allowed to fully express and act on their “Virtue of Hate.” The notion of Tikkun Olam is fraudulent. Their idea of saving the world is being allowed to hate and it is only unique to them.

I agree and pressed the wrong button.

From their point of view it was a really crappy deal the Palestinians were offered, but hardly one Israel could have been sure that the Palestinians would reject, especially as the the Pals perhaps could have accepted with the intention of building on it to get a sweeter outcome. Clinton would have been thankful, being seen as a genius, and there would have been plenty of other international goodwill for Pals. Predicting the Pal rejection of Barak’s offer and the suicide bombings on Israeli civilians that came afterwards and played into the hands of the Israeli right by politically crucifying Ehud Barak would have been difficult for Israeli strategists, so I think it was a serious offer on Israel’s part. Consider: if the Pals were offered the same deal today would they be as likely to decline?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud_Barak#Prime_Minister_of_Israel “Every attempt [by the State of Israel] to keep hold of this area [the West Bank and Gaza] as one political entity leads, necessarily, to either a nondemocratic or a non-Jewish state. Because if the Palestinians vote, then it is a binational state, and if they don’t vote it is an apartheid state.”[13] As part of these negotiations, Barak took part in the Camp David 2000 Summit which was meant finally to resolve the Israeli–Palestinian conflict but failed. Barak also allowed Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben-Ami to attend the Taba Summit with the leadership of the Palestinian Authority, after his government had fallen.

Ben-Ami refused to serve in the Sharon government, he was of Barak’s school of thought, so it does not surprise me he thought that Camp David was not an attractive offer for Pals the time, but in retrospect it is perhaps not as obvious that they should have declined the Camp David offer which was on the table at a time when the Iron Wall was but a metaphor. The Palestinians suicide bombing against civilians made it a reality

Ilan Pappe lives in Britain and is one of the Jews behind the disinvestment moment. The press tries to pretend it is the hard left and Muslims, but no; it is almost entirely Jewish academics and Israeli expatriate Jews that thought up the disinvestment and boycotting campaign. He wants a bi national state. Bi-nationalist Pappe is an important voice, but he sees nationalism as a sin. Benny Morris was once a revisionist viewed in the same light to Pappe. Morris was poised to leave Israel when the PM called to come and see him and asked if Morris if he thought Israel had the right to remain a Jewish state. Answering in the affirmative meant a university job was offered to him.

According to Morris, his views changed in 2000 after the Palestinian rejection of President Clinton’s peace accords and the beginning of the Second Intifada:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris#Political_views My turning point began after 2000. I wasn’t a great optimist even before that. True, I always voted Labor or Meretz or Sheli and in 1988 I refused to serve in the territories and was jailed for it, but I always doubted the intentions of the Palestinians. The events of Camp David and what followed in their wake turned the doubt into certainty. When the Palestinians rejected the proposal of [prime minister Ehud] Barak in July 2000 and the Clinton proposal in December 2000, I understood that they are unwilling to accept the two-state solution. They want it all: Lod and Acre and Jaffa.[6]

‘Story after story of Mizrahi Jews kicked out of Arab Muslim lands.’

Something the Zionists themselves did absolutely nothing to bring about, of course.

‘Your argument isn’t very bright…’

A123 is a Zionist. You have to adjust your expectations.

‘Ilan Pappe has shown that Israel never wanted peace.’

That really needs to be accepted as a given. Peace would be fatal to Israel. To maintain a sufficient sense of national identity, she needs an enemy at the gates.

In point of fact, whenever the social stresses grow too great, voila — ‘terrorist attack.’ Then the various tribes of Jews drop their quarrels and rush to the ramparts. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

The most spectacular example of this I recall came something like ten years back. There were increasingly large Jewish protests about some economic issue or other: massive demonstrations, and getting larger every day.

Then there was a rather suspicious ‘terrorist attack.’ Some party of gunmen crossed over from Sinai and ambushed an IDF patrol, killing six or so.

Never mind that it all happened two hundred miles from Gaza, that Hamas disavowed any connection, and that no reason was ever presented to think there was a connection. It was Hamas. Let’s mobilize everyone and bomb the shit out of Gaza.

Sixty dead Palestinians later (or was it two hundred?), the demonstrations are all forgotten about, all the Jews are happy, and everything’s right with the world again — well, until the stresses build up again. But Israel knows what to do about that.

She keeps the solution right at hand.

Funny, a super troll calling someone a troll. Typical Jewish/Zio tactic. Blame others for what you are. Hasbara AND projecting!

Classic plan. First demonize them thoroughly, then it’s okay to do anything to them!!!

Lying comes naturally to these Jews when dealing with the outside world. It”s sanctioned by their psychotic rabbis. Then they blame muslims for taqiyya, which they hardly understand!!!!with them it’s anything goes

Mention of the Jewish exodus from Arab lands really doesn’t help your cause, Mr. Maher, since it occurred many decades after wave upon wave of European Jew began imposing themselves themselves upon the indigenous people of Palestine, their design culminating in widespread Jewish terror attacks throughout 1947-8, unilateral declaration of Israeli statehood in defiance of the UN, and the implementation of Plan Dalet, intended to depopulate Palestine of most of its Arabs.

You’re just bringing more attention to the cause of the exodus, which was Israel.

Thanks.

For as long as you continue to peddle hasbara about Taba, we’ll continue to call it out for what it is:

The Myth of the Generous Offer

“Anyone who reads the European Union account of the Taba talks,” Ha’aretz noted in its introduction, “will find it hard to believe that only 13 months ago, Israel and the Palestinians were so close to a peace agreement.” At Taba, Israel dropped its demand to control Palestine’s borders and the Jordan Valley. The Palestinians, for the first time, made detailed counterproposals–in other words, counteroffers–showing which changes to the 1967 borders they would be willing to accept. The Israeli map that has emerged from the talks shows a fully contiguous West Bank, though with a very narrow middle and a strange gerrymandered western border to accommodate annexed settlements.

In the end, however, all this proved too much for Israel’s Labor prime minister. On January 28, Barak unilaterally broke off the negotiations. “The pressure of Israeli public opinion against the talks could not be resisted,” Ben-Ami said (New York Times, 7/26/01).

That’s Shlomo Ben-Ami speaking. Your word doesn’t carry more weight than his.

Now, Sean … We caught you peddling the old “Jordan is Palestine” myth not too long ago. Usually you’re a bit more cautious with your approach, but after that slip, you’re wholly transparent.

I’m sure it won’t stop you, though. Keep fooling yourself.

/That really needs to be accepted as a given./

Agreed.

It’s best to refer to any “security fence” or “border wall” as a front line, since Israel refuses to agree upon internationally recognized borders, choosing to place itself on a perpetual war footing with everyone beyond that line.

At Taba further concessions were made, but Arafat held out for right of return and Sharon was elected. The suicide bombing restarted September 2000, which was predictable as military (or terrorist if you prefer) pressure on Barack had worked. But the Palestinians had overplayed their hand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taba_Summit#Reasons_for_impasse Erekat, Palestinian chief negotiator, said, “My heart aches because I know we were so close. We need six more weeks to conclude the drafting of the agreement.”

The international community pressed Israel for restraint. A few months after 9/11 Al Fatah claimed a suicide bombing.

The actual positions taken at Taba are a matter of dispute, but one thing we can be quite certain of is that no Israeli leader will in the future dare offer anything like the deal Barak did at Taba. That was the high water mark of the effectiveness of Palestinian pressure. Whether the Palestinians thought in the light of subsequent experience they had been wise to reject what Barak offered can be judged by the subsequent history.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jun/22/israel

The Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, yesterday belatedly accepted a Middle East peace plan put forward 18 months ago by the then US president, Bill Clinton.
But the Israeli government said the offer, which was discussed by Israeli and Palestinian negotiators at Taba in Egypt in January last year, was no longer on the table.

Well, you’re being your typically obtuse self yet again, so I’ll provide the following solely for the purpose of setting the record straight:

Although some people describe Israel’s Camp David proposal as practically a return to the 1967 borders, it was far from that. Under the plan, Israel would have withdrawn completely from the small Gaza Strip. But it would annex strategically important and highly valuable sections of the West Bank–while retaining “security control” over other parts–that would have made it impossible for the Palestinians to travel or trade freely within their own state without the permission of the Israeli government (Political Science Quarterly, 6/22/01; New York Times, 7/26/01; Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 9-10/00; Robert Malley, New York Review of Books, 8/9/01).

The annexations and security arrangements would divide the West Bank into three disconnected cantons. In exchange for taking fertile West Bank lands that happen to contain most of the region’s scarce water aquifers, Israel offered to give up a piece of its own territory in the Negev Desert–about one-tenth the size of the land it would annex–including a former toxic waste dump.

Because of the geographic placement of Israel’s proposed West Bank annexations, Palestinians living in their new “independent state” would be forced to cross Israeli territory every time they traveled or shipped goods from one section of the West Bank to another, and Israel could close those routes at will. Israel would also retain a network of so-called “bypass roads” that would crisscross the Palestinian state while remaining sovereign Israeli territory, further dividing the West Bank.

Israel was also to have kept “security control” for an indefinite period of time over the Jordan Valley, the strip of territory that forms the border between the West Bank and neighboring Jordan. Palestine would not have free access to its own international borders with Jordan and Egypt–putting Palestinian trade, and therefore its economy, at the mercy of the Israeli military.

Had Arafat agreed to these arrangements, the Palestinians would have permanently locked in place many of the worst aspects of the very occupation they were trying to bring to an end. For at Camp David, Israel also demanded that Arafat sign an “end-of-conflict” agreement stating that the decades-old war between Israel and the Palestinians was over and waiving all further claims against Israel.

/The suicide bombing restarted September 2000./

This has nothing to do with the Taba talks, which were held between January 21-27 in 2001.

But even if you’re attempting to create the illusion that Palestinians began suicide bombing as a reaction to the collapse of Camp David on July 25, 2000, you would still be incorrect.

After Camp David, negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians continued behind closed doors …

Meanwhile, life for the Palestinian population under Israeli occupation went on as usual. On July 28, Prime Minister Barak announced that Israel had no plans to withdraw from the town of Abu Dis, as it had pledged to do in the 1995 Oslo II agreement (Israel Wire, 7/28/00). In August and early September, Israel announced new construction on Jewish-only settlements in Efrat and Har Adar, while the Israeli statistics bureau reported that settlement building had increased 81 percent in the first quarter of 2000. Two Palestinian houses were demolished in East Jerusalem, and Arab residents of Sur Bahir and Suwahara received expropriation notices; their houses lay in the path of a planned Jewish-only highway (Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 11-12/00).

The Intifada began on September 29, 2000, when Israeli troops opened fire on unarmed Palestinian rock-throwers at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, killing four and wounding over 200 (State Department human rights report for Israel, 2/01). Demonstrations spread throughout the territories. Barak and Arafat, having both staked their domestic reputations on their ability to win a negotiated peace from the other side, now felt politically threatened by the violence. In January 2001, they resumed formal negotiations at Taba, Egypt.

What this history demonstrates is that Israel never entered post-Camp David negotiations (prior to the Intifada) in good faith. Had they done so, they would not have continued to violate Oslo II and demolish Palestinian homes with the intent of expanding settlement building.

/The actual positions taken at Taba are a matter of dispute/

Only to folks who, like you, have something to hide.

In fact, they are not a matter of dispute. Ben-Ami said it plainly and no amount of spin-doctoring will change the fact that it was Israeli public opinion which scuttled the Taba talks, not Arafat’s demand for the right of return — the stipulations of which were even considered by Israel, according to your very own Wiki link:

Both sides suggested, as a basis, that the parties should agree that a just settlement of the refugee problem in accordance with the UN Security Council Resolution 242 must lead to the implementation of UN General Assembly Resolution 194.

Of course the Zionists, being who they are, never wanted it. And regardless of how bleak things look for Palestinians right now, there will come a day when Israel pays a steep price for its obstinate avarice.

Go on and deny that. I could care less. When you pass the threshold of your grave, it’ll be too late to change your mind.

And let’s not forget about White Nakba in the West.

This phrase lacks internal self consistemcy:

… wave upon wave of European Jew began imposing themselves themselves upon the indigenous people of Palestine,

Around ~600AD wave upon wave of Arab Muslims stole the lands of Palestinian Jews the indigenous people of Palestine. The War Criminals of the United Nazis [UN] issued a unilateral declaration stealing Jewish Palestinian land. However, all rational parties agree that War Criminals are not a credible source of ‘International Law’.

As the UN-azis have neither credibility nor standing, International Law continues to be governed by the fair 1920’s compromise where Arab Muslims obtained over 75% of Palestine.

PEACE may be possible. Muslim Arabs currently occupying Jewish Palestinian land are in possession of stolen property, but they are not the thieves who stole it. Giving foreign Arabs an honourable option, assistance to leave stolen Palestinian property, is WIN-WIN common sense proposition.

This is what the Violent Iranian extremists of al’Hamas fear the most. 10% of the Gaza population (~200,000) could emigrate to success and prosperity. With that as proof that there is a better option, the flood gates would open. The foreign Arab Muslim de-colonization of Jewish Palestine would become an obvious, inevitable truth visible for all to see.

PEACE 😇

/Around ~600AD wave upon wave of Arab Muslims stole the lands of Palestinian Jews the indigenous people of Palestine./

Hilarious, particularly considering the fact that Jews weren’t even in possession of the Holy Land when Muslims took the reins of it from Byzantium in the 7th century C.E. What’s more, were it not for the Muslims, Jews would have remained a non-entity there:

Siege of Jerusalem (636–637)

In late April 637, Jerusalem was officially surrendered to the caliph.[15] For the first time, after almost 500 years of oppressive Roman rule, Jews were once again allowed to live and worship inside Jerusalem.[16]

In fact, Jews would have perished altogether were it not for the Muslim ascent to power:

“So, what the Muslims do for the Jews?

Had Islam not come along, the conflict with Persia would have continued. The separation between western Judaism, that of Christendom, and Babylonian Judaism, that of Mesopotamia, would have intensified. Jewry in the west would have declined to disappearance in many areas. And Jewry in the east would have become just another oriental cult.

But this was all prevented by the rise of Islam. The Islamic conquests of the seventh century changed the world, and did so with dramatic, wide-ranging and permanent effect for the Jews.

Within a century of the death of Mohammad, in 632, Muslim armies had conquered almost the whole of the world where Jews lived, from Spain eastward across North Africa and the Middle East as far as the eastern frontier of Iran and beyond. Almost all the Jews in the world were now ruled by Islam. This new situation transformed Jewish existence. Their fortunes changed in legal, demographic, social, religious, political, geographical, economic, linguistic and cultural terms – all for the better. [emphasis mine]

Written by no less than a Jewish professor of Jewish Studies at Vanderbilt University. Hardly worthy of your typical “jihadi” epithet, no?

In any event, thanks for the chuckle. It’s entertaining to envision you as you write those unhinged screeds: pupils fully dilated, eyes protruding just beyond their sockets, neck and jaw muscles taught, betraying an inevitable rise of blood pressure and furtive grinding of teeth …

Take care not to bust a vessel, would you?

‘The population of Gaza is doubling every 15 years or so. Gazans subsist thanks to the rich Arab states’ generosity. There is no solution for Gaza…’

That’s ridiculous. Of course there’s a solution for Gaza.

Israel is the state that exercises sovereignty over Gaza. Let the inhabitants of Gaza enjoy their full rights as citizens of the democratic state of Israel.

‘Around ~600AD wave upon wave of Arab Muslims stole the lands of Palestinian Jews the indigenous people of Palestine. ‘

It’s been explained to you before that this is a notion with no basis at all in historical fact.

It has become fashionable to label anyone with a message not to your liking, as a “troll.” The message must be getting through to the enemy. So, I see nothing wrong in being a “troll.”

On the other hand, a zionist lowlife mfer… *retch* oh, the vileness… *puke*

Dear Mr. Atzmon,

What is the “endgame” here, for Israel ?

What does it look like ?

Let us assume that Israel gets “everything” it wants…what does that mean, in terms of the reality on the ground ?

Does it mean that all of Gaza and all of the West Bank become incorporated into Greater Israel ?

Does it mean that all of Jerusalem, too, is absorbed into Greater Israel ?

Does it mean that the vast majority of Palestinians living within these areas will be either expelled or exterminated ?

Does it mean that the millions of refugees who are descendants of the Palestinians forced out in 1948 must be absorbed within the countries where they currently reside ?

Is this what Israelis want ?

Is this their “endgame” ?

Does anyone have clarity on this ?

Anon starter……… hmmmm sounds like something from …….mondoweiss.

Things must be desperate if you are now commenting here……did you apply for refugee status

Only your point of view counts and MARK MY WORDS……obstinate avarice indeed.

Taba could have saved many lives and led to a peaceful political solution over time but the suicide bombing route was chosen instead.
Here you are quiet happily agreeing with that.
Well this time round there is a differnt peace deal.
Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised and who knows,israel might become the paradise you want with 72 virgins waiting to welcome you

When do they start relocating millions of Palestinians to the US? An odd turn of events, if the huge migrations of the last decades did not occur, relocating all the Palestinians to the US and Europe might have been easy to accomplish.

Reading your post I have an idea, exchange Jewish populations in the US and Europe for Palestinians. It’s win win!!!

When you pass the threshold of your grave, it’ll be too late to change your mind.

I will not leap into my grave to be buried alive in the expectation I could stage a successful comeback, as the Palestinians did at Taba.

The suicide bombings by Hamas were suspended for Camp David and started up again shortly afterwards, when they were said to be a response to Sharon (known for the 1982 massacre of Palestinians in a refugee camp in Lebanon) having visited the Temple Mount. This very personage was trying to unseat Barak as prime minister of Israel. If the Palestinian organisations’ leaderships had possessed the intellect of a drugged cockroach they would have realised that the Intifada and Hamas suicide bombing were playing into Sharon’s hands every bit as much as they were pressuring Barak to make concessions. They should also have realised that they had to make the deal with Barak in the short time before the effect of their tactics on Israeli public opinion removed Barak from office.

Israeli public opinion which scuttled the Taba talks, not Arafat’s demand for the right of return

Israeli public opinion viewed the right of return as a massive demographic gift to the Palestinians. If as you say, Ben-Ami and Barak were willing to give limited though unprecedented concessions on right of return at Taba then such was was surely connected with Israel public opinion begining to think Barak was giving too much ground in the face of the bombings. Most importantly, the Palestinians were quite understandably getting the impression that Intifada and suicide massacres of Jewish civilians were the way to get something like a full right of return, which would be be seen by all as a total victory for the Palestinian leadership. The Palestinians did not seem to realise that Sharon was a very different kettle of fish to Barak, and Sharon would be in power if they did not take what was offered at Taba, which while not good would have, within months, seen them sitting in an actual Palestinian statelet, which though below their requirements, could perhaps be built on.

Israeli public opinion in the run up to the election was not only pondering whether Barak’s soft line was encouraging terrorism, Israelis had to be considering whether Barak’s unprecedented concessions at Taba were a brave long term statesman-like act or something to do with him wanting to remain Prime Minister of Israel. In any event the outcome is well known: the Palestinians rejected the Taba deal, and within a year Sharon announced the Israeli West Bank barrier. The Palestinians realised their mistake, but too late.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jun/22/israel

The Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, yesterday belatedly accepted a Middle East peace plan put forward 18 months ago by the then US president, Bill Clinton.
But the Israeli government said the offer, which was discussed by Israeli and Palestinian negotiators at Taba in Egypt in January last year, was no longer on the table.

So instead of the substructure of an entity they could perhaps build up to tolerable statehood, they watched the construction of a high wall with extremely deep foundations that is intended to forever separate them from their land. Great thinking!

/The suicide bombings by Hamas were suspended for Camp David and started up again shortly afterwards, when they were said to be a response to Sharon (known for the 1982 massacre of Palestinians in a refugee camp in Lebanon) having visited the Temple Mount./

Well, that airbrushes a lot of criminality on behalf of Israel that occurred in the interim. You’re fairly consistent with doing that, as you are with dealing in the coin of conjecture. One good example:

/the Palestinians were quite understandably getting the impression that Intifada and suicide massacres of Jewish civilians were the way to get something like a full right of return/

Not only were most of the targets military (totaling a mere 6 fatalities), you really have no means of divining what you claim. None whatsoever.

And then, after that tediously prodigal expense of verbiage, you repeat the lie that the Palestinians rejected the Taba deal — in spite of the fact that you earlier admitted the actual positions taken at Taba were “a matter of dispute.”

So we know which side of the dispute you fall on.

Thanks for the admission. It saves us a lot of time.

/I will not leap into my grave to be buried alive in the expectation I could stage a successful comeback/

Oh, quite certainly. You have no idea.

Yet another flushed out of the woodwork, with the yentacular Fran affixing approval of his phishing expedition, no less.

You’re way off, kahin, but more than welcome to that fire you seem to enjoy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Martyrs%27_Brigades#Activities
January 2002: Bat Mitzvah massacre, when a gunman killed six and wounded 33 in a Bat Mitzvah celebration.[13]
19 February 2002: an attack on an IDF checkpoint at Ein ‘Arik, near Ramallah, where one officer and five soldiers were killed.
3 March 2002: an attack by a single sniper on an IDF checkpoint at Wadi al-Haramiya, near Ofra, where 2 officers and five soldiers were killed and five soldiers wounded. Three civilian settlers were also killed in the incident.
2 March 2002: Beit Yisrael, Jerusalem – 11 killed.[14]

Arafat publicly accepted what was offered at Taba, in June 2002, which was 18 months after the Taba negotiations had ended, and not only after the offer made by Barak was off the table, but when he was no longer in office. .

It was by this time clear to Arafat his strategy of encouraging the violence was counterproductive, and he could not control the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, which says it is Fatah’s military wing. Arafat just held out a little too long to see what else would be forthcoming from Israel and the moment at Taba passed. Within 18 months he realised a bad mistake had been made and the suicide bombings had been a disaster for the Palestinian cause, but it was too late.

Oh, quite certainly. You have no idea.

Why the Palestinians thought Sharon would be the the same kind of Israeli PM as Barak I have no idea. You obviously have now idea that Atzmon is against all nation states not just the Jewish one, just as he thinks it is healthy to be disgusted with one’s self

/Does anyone have clarity on this ?/

Their endgame is premised upon

1) their interpretation of God’s promise to Abraham as recorded in Genesis, by which they assert unconditional entitlement to the lands extending from the length of the Nile to the headwaters of the Euphrates, a swathe of land that incorporates the Arabian Peninsula, and

2) their interpretation of sacred text which necessitates subjugation of goyim to their hegemony, wherever it reaches.

Hope that helps.

Reading your post I have an idea, exchange Jewish populations in the US and Europe for Palestinians. It’s win win!!!

Moving Muslim colonizers from Jewish Palestine to Christian lands in the U.S. and Europe will not help. The solution is obvious. The Muslim colonial era is at an end and the violent Islamic occupying colonizers must return to Muslim lands.

Here is a WIN-WIN idea… Qom should be the capital of New Muslim Palestine. After all Iran loves them, and a key PLO demand is having a important religious city as a capital.

Islam is supposed to contain a “Pillar of Charity”. If true, Islam needs to act by helping the descendants of colonizers return home. Or, is the “Pillar of Charity” just another Taqiyya lie to Infidels?

PEACE 😇

It’s been explained to you before that this is a notion with no basis at all in historical fact.

You mean you have been caught distorting history multiple times. Here is the simple test *AGAIN*. Try not to fail this time.

How many Muslims were in Palestine at the following dates:
— 400 BC?
— 200 BC?
— 0 BC/AD?
— 200 AD?
— 400 AD?

Islam has no indigenous presence in Palestine. The correct answer to each question above is ZERO.

Islam stole all of the Palestinian land currently colonized by Muslims. If you want to say that Muslims stole the land from Christians who stole the land from someone else … Fair enough. It is still stolen property no matter how many times it changes hands.

Ultimately peace requires Atonement. Islam giving back some of the lands that they stole would be a good start.

So…. Does Islam want peace? Or, does Islam want Conquest (Jihad)?

PEACE 😇

Two responses ago, you wrote

/If as you say, Ben-Ami and Barak were willing to give limited though unprecedented concessions on right of return at Taba then such was was surely connected with Israel public opinion begining to think Barak was giving too much ground in the face of the bombings. Most importantly, the Palestinians were quite understandably getting the impression that Intifada and suicide massacres of Jewish civilians were the way to get something like a full right of return, which would be be seen by all as a total victory for the Palestinian leadership./

So it’s clear that the suicide bombings you mention here fell in the time period after Camp David and before Taba — which yielded a grand total of six fatalities, mostly soldiers.

As such, the 2002 bombings you mention are entirely irrelevant to your argument, since, as you correctly state, they occurred well after Taba ended and would not possibly have been perceived as a negotiation tactic in the run-up to those talks.

Vacillating between pre- and post-Taba suicide attacks doesn’t make your conjecture appear more credible, Sean. It just makes you look dishonest.

/he thinks it is healthy to be disgusted with one’s self/

Then he’s on to something. You would certainly stand to benefit from it.

It helps a bit……Thank you.

The area you describe is much much larger than historic Palestine.

I am trying to get clarity on Israels designs for the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan heights ?

If ( lets say ) Israel got “everything” it wanted vis-a-vis these strategic areas …today …….How would this translate in terms of demographics and geography ?

What would Israel look like ?

https://ibb.co/RHnX6gJ

Ah, you guys lost war after war. Had you won we would be gone. We won you are gone.
That is the way of conquest and acquisition.
Look India just took over Kashmir.
The Palestinians are losers, losers do not get to dictate the right of who lives there and who doesn’t a stupid right of return for 4 generations of millions of people that fit no legal refugee status as refugees require one generation only, and if a citizen of another country will also cause forfeiture of refugee status.
You do not lose and get to load the finish results. Years ago it would have been possible to come to a sort of fair conclusion. Now get lost.

Think if you won in 1948, 1967 would you negotiate with us? LOL
The Arabs are pathetically stuck emotionally at the age of 4.
Was there a Jewish temple under Al Aqsa ? Just answer the question.
It is a competency/ reality test.

Brilliant

Was there a Jewish temple under Al Aqsa ? Just answer the question.
It is a competency/ reality test.

Whoa!!!! That’s just crazy talk. Asking Iranian government Trolls to *face reality*?

What’s Next! Trying to get them to admit the TRUTH?

I admire your sense of optimism, but *reality and truth* out of professional Trolls like AS and CW is waaaayyyy too much to ask.

PEACE 😇

What if the “ethnic cleansing” of “all” Palestinians from Greater Israel turns out to be a “booby trap” ?

Once the Greater Israel project is complete and 94% of the Palestinians have been either killed, driven out, or have left “voluntarily”……Is it not the case that Iran will no longer be “restrained” in attacking Israel …..for fear of killing Palestinians ?

Doesn’t this just pave the way for Iran to borrow a megaton nuke from Pakistan and drop it on Tel Aviv ?

The “uber-nakba” of Palestine, followed by a total “nuke” nakba …..of all of Israel ?

Once Iran has nuked Israel , in response to its ethnic cleansing of Palestine….will the millions of Palestinian refugees who have been forced to languish for decades , outside of Israel , finally return home to rebuild “their” country …..in peace ?

Will the entire middle east “rejoice” in celebration , at finally being freed from the clutches of the “cruel and barbarous” “Zionist Entity” ?

Is this one possible scenario within the next decade or so ?

Is this , perhaps ,the real reason “end the carnage” Trump had to tear up the “carnage ending” JCPOA ?

Is this the “real” reason Trump had to “double down” on US military spending, after promising to end all the wars ?

The idea that “Iran” , the last great protector of Palestine, must be preemptively destroyed, NOW, in order to forestall this “worst case” scenario unfolding for Greater Israel, down the line ?

Anyone care to weigh in on this ?

‘Brilliant’

Actually, it was so inane it didn’t merit a response.

Germany was invaded by Christians.

How many Christians were there in Germany in 200 BC?

Huh, huh?

‘…Anyone care to weigh in on this ?’

Other problems aside, your attempt to rationalize genocidal aggression depends on the assumption that Iran would be prepared to commit national suicide for the sake of striking a blow at Israel.

No nation in all of human history has ever behaved that way. Nations only mount attacks if they think they can win.

‘…Was there a Jewish temple under Al Aqsa ? Just answer the question.
It is a competency/ reality test.

Whoa!!!! That’s just crazy talk. Asking Iranian government Trolls to *face reality*?’

It’s mildly comic that both you and A123 manage to totally misconstrue the significance of the Muslims going to considerable trouble to build al Aqsa exactly where the Jewish temple had been six hundred years earlier.

Islam, of course, sees itself as the original revelation of Judaism and Christianity, purified of the errors and corruption that had crept in over time. Of course al Aqsa was to go where the temple had been. It was the temple, rebuilt.

This isn’t hard or obscure. You just have to accept the truth. Islam is your religion, cleaned up some.

That’s a matter of opinion, of course — but it is the gist of the matter.

Your logorrhea in a nutshell: might = right.

Since it’s just might used against you, you should forego any further complaints about “Muslim terrorism.”

https://www.wrmea.org/011-august/misunderstandings-about-jerusalem-s-temple-mount.html

While it has not been widely published, it assuredly has been known for more than 40 years that the 45-acre, well-fortified place that has been mistakenly called the “Temple Mount” was really the Roman fortress—the Antonia—that Herod built. The Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque are contained within these walls. The area is called the Haram Al-Sharif in Arabic.

The discovery that this area had once been the great Roman fortress came as a shock to the scholarly community, which had believed for many years that this ancient fortress was the place where the temple had been. This news was preceded by another shock, when the English archaeologist Kathleen Kenyon discovered in 1962 that the entire City of David in the past had been only that little rock ridge on the western bank of the Kidron Valley. Less than 10 years later the historian Benjamin Mazar learned that the Haram had undoubtedly been the Roman fortress.

/Actually, it was so inane it didn’t merit a response./

Everyone here but the lobotomized or Zionists know it as well.

But I repeat myself.

/Islam is your religion, cleaned up some./

Oh, he knows that much, if not much at all.

In fact, both him and Fran are well aware of it, but they want to “keep it in the family,” which is why they become such inveterate enemies of a religion that doesn’t impose an ethnic litmus test on its adherents.

Were conduct the sole criterion for salvation, they’d have to work at it. Can’t have that.

” despite the Israeli communication with European leaders and even countries in the region, so far, no country has agreed to participate in the Israeli crime and absorb the ethnically cleansed Gazans.”

Let’s watch for Trump’s tweet on the subject. Surely he has enough love in his heart for the dispossessed victims of Israel..er..I mean valuable new additions to the American citizenry.

/Had you won we would be gone./

Actually, when we won, you weren’t gone.

See my response to your fellow hasbarista above, which demonstrates but one important difference between us: respect for a subject people’s self-determination.

I have a few words for you Roman history, Flavius Joseph.
History of the Roman Empire.
Find Herods Temple, the GPS is right there.
My point exactly you are hopelessly ignorant.
History
The Dead Sea scrolls, Jesus etc.

All of Islam before Israel called the Al Aqsa the site of the Jewish Temple.
Look at your own history and scripture.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/03/30/opinion/sunday/jerusalem-city-of-david-israel-dig.html

If Palestinians are so wonderful why doesn’t anyone want them?

Palestinians are wonderful. They have hopelessly stupid leaders, and a religion in need of a major update with the Jews, and recognition by religious leaders that the Jews have every right to be there.

carrot and stick btw no subsidies from the welfare queens of Pissrael they threaten with death, oppression racial genocide, water denial aka communist terror tactics while at the same time trying to provide a “relief” valve to mitigate the resistance mindset…further proof the Palestinians are the rightful heirs to the land and the Israel nothing but jewish bolshevik zionist squatter with zero right to the land or their corporate Talpiot/uniot8200 etc empires of theft, murder, conspiracy, intrigue and monopolistic glow in the dark fraud

Arabs blame their ‘leaders’ for making things worse. A quote from 2015 poll results: (1)

… nearly half of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip believe that Hamas movement is the main party responsible for the endless split between Gaza and the West Bank.

34.3%, blamed Hamas for the continued division in the Palestinian territories. 23.1% put the responsibility on Fatah, 17.8% blamed both movements, and only 7.9% who blamed Israel.

Voluntary relocation schemes have a chance. Arabs want to leave Jewish Palestine: (2)

The 50 percent of those polled in Gaza thinking of leaving the coastal enclave is the highest percentage ever recorded, amidst decreasing satisfaction of achievements attained by Hamas last summer’s war.

If you do not like this poll, search for others. Results like these have been consistent for years.

If only 25% of Gaza residents are willing to volunteer for compensated relocation, that is still a 500,000+ population base to launch New Muslim Palestine. Arab civilians deserve the ability to ‘vote with their feet’ by leaving over the objections of violent ‘leaders’. Fatah and Hamas are more interested in hate & power than helping their people.

PEACE
__________

(1) http://www.thetower.org/1739-poll-gaza-residents-blame-hamas-for-palestinian-division/

(2) https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=765875