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Impeachment and Antisemitism
An interview with Yonatan Stern, a Jewish Settler and an American patriot
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A year ago I interviewed Yonatan Stern in a kosher pizzeria in Monticello, Catskills, New York. Yonatan is the man behind Cherev Gidon, an ‘Israeli Tactical Training Academy.’ Yonatan, an American who is also a former Israeli settler, correctly identified the demand for an Israeli-style military school to teach American Jews some of the IDF commando’s essentials for self-defense and the ability to fight back if necessary.

Yonatan was a perfect subject to interview: his views may be radical but they are based upon a sharp, coherent and consistent rationale. He was open in expressing his thoughts, which included some outrageous statements but which all left no doubt that he both meant what he said and said what he meant. I’ve observed that in America 2020, after half a century of the tyranny of correctness, very few Americans are brave enough to celebrate their constitutionally protected liberty to think and express themselves freely and authentically.

I heard from Yonatan, just before Christmas. “Things have been getting hot since we last met,” he wrote, referring to a string of attacks on Orthodox Jews in the NY area. He added, “Anyhow, all this antisemitism has brought me lots of clients so I’m keeping busy.”

This week Yonatan and I returned to the same kosher pizzeria in Monticello where we met before. Yonatan is very upset with Jewish Leftists. He believes that they are set to destroy the Jews, America and the whole world.

“My take on the current impeachment circus is that it is a typical display of subversive leftist Jewish attempts to undermine America from within.” In a manner of speech that is typical of so called ‘anti Semites’ Yonatan, a hard core ultra right wing Jew of the Rabbi Meir Kahane type, wrote to me that the “powerhouse behind this (impeachment) campaign are Jews, very visible Jews. And the worst part is that they are claiming it’s their “Jewish values” that are driving them to do this.”

I asked Yonatan who is a Jew, or rather what is a Jew and what are ‘Jewish values’? “The Jewish people is a nation, we are an ancient nation going back to the Biblical Israelites. But we are also a religion in a sense that we are guided by a religious dogma.” For Yonatan a Jew who is separated from the Torah can no more be called a Jew. Yonatan contends that Jewish liberals are engaged in a fraudulent exercise “pretending that multi cultural values and their misinterpretation of Tikun Olam are intrinsic to Judaism. [In fact] real Judaism of the Torah promotes things which Liberal Jews would consider brutality: such as slavery, polygamy, rape (at a time of a war), animal sacrifice, total prohibition on homosexuality etc.”

His answer surprised me and I asked Yonatan to elaborate on Judaism and slavery. Yonatan’s had no doubts. “Slavery is allowed in Judaism subject to rules of course.” I guess the take home message is that some Jews may oppose slavery however, the opposition to slavery is not a ‘Jewish value.’ They may even oppose slavery despite so-called ‘Jewish values.’

Like President Trump, Yonatan has harsh words on the Jewishness of the Jewish Left. “In reality these are assimilated, pork-eating, sabbath-desecrating fake Jews affiliated with the radical left wing Reform movement who ordain women as rabbis and conduct homosexual ‘marriages’ under a Chuppa. These Hellenist (Greek) frauds represent everything that is evil and ugly about American Judaism and they perpetuate the myth of the hook-nosed subversive Jew being behind every insidious attempt to undermine their host countries.”

It goes without saying that Yonatan doesn’t approve of the Jewish Left and its duplicitous mantra yet, I had to ask Yonatan whether he would be willing to militarily train a female rabbi or a gay cantor.

“The reality is this, these people caused the problem. It will come back to bite them in the end. Now should I come and save them from the trouble they caused me and all the Jews?”

“Their actions are endangering all of us, as many American gentiles see this rightly as an attempt to subvert our republic for which they fought and died, and identify the Jew as the subversive enemy behind it.” It is clear that in Yonatan’s universe, the Left Jew is by far the most dangerous element in Western society in general and in the USA in particular.

This fear of the assimilated and Leftist Jew may sound bizarre to those who are foreign to Jewish culture, history and tradition. The fear of Hellenist (Greek) Jews is as old as Judaism. There is nothing more frightening for rabbinical Jews than the thought that some of their brethren endorse the ethics of Goyim, subscribe to universalism, peace, harmony and equality. Zionism was born to stop assimilation; it promised to take the Diaspora Jews away to Palestine and to make them people like all other people. The anti Zionist Bund, an East European revolutionary Communist Jewish party that was literally born the same year as Zionism (1897), was also an attempt to prevent Jews from joining the ‘Hellenic’ route by offering Jews a tribal path within the context of a future Soviet revolution. Golda Meir thought the real threat to Jewish existence wasn’t the Arab-Israeli conflict but mixed marriages. Yonatan, like every observing Jew, knows that Hanukah is a celebration of the victory of traditional conservative Judaism over the Hellenic Jewish voices that threatened to liberate the Jews from themselves.

ORDER IT NOW

I asked Yonatan why Jews seem to be prone to subversive and revolutionary politics. For Yonatan, “there is a subversive and evil element within Judaism even before the Torah was given. There are numerous examples of the above in the Torah of Jews who are living in our midst and subverting our cause.” According to Yonatan Saul Alinsky is a perfect exemplar of such a revolutionary destructive Jew, as is Marx. I asked Yonatan whether Jesus should be added to the list of these subversive Jewish characters. Yonatan avoided the question probably because the wrong answering could jeopardise his wishful future alliance with the Christian Right.

Yonathan wrote to me that “it is usually the most identifiable (the Orthodox Jews ) who are the targets of the understandable antisemitic backlash.” It is people like himself, he wrote, who “are put into the position of having no choice but to fight right wing white Christian Conservatives, people who would be our natural allies under normal circumstances if these Hellenist Jews weren’t disgracing G-d’s name with their evil.”

I felt the need to correct Yonatan and pointed out to him that, at the moment, it isn’t ‘White nationalists’ who have targeted Orthodox Jews. It has been the Black communities in the NYC area who feel ethnically cleansed by the ever expanding Orthodox ghettos. I asked Yonatan what is at the core of this apparently emerging Jew/Black street war? Does it have something to do with Orthodox Jewish communities who may display some unethical tactics?

Yonatan is not impressed with Black Americans. For some reason he sees the clash between Jewish Orthodox and Black communities as a manifestation of a ‘Left’ revolutionary act. I pointed out to Yonatan that there is nothing remotely ‘lefty’ in recent attacks on orthodox communities. Yonatan then expressed some ardent racist views. I quote them not because they are true, as they are not, but to provide an accurate portrayal of Yonathan’s world view. He said that we are dealing with “wild people, they have been in America as long as Whites have been here. They are free of slavery for over 150 years. They enjoy the same freedom as whites, segregation ended 50 years ago… Despite that look where are they now, living on welfare, broken families, using crack, mayhem. Yet look at the Jews, we came over at the late 1800s and early 19th century. And look where we have come, we came poor, with rugs on our backs, we worked in sweatshops. We are now at the head of society. Trump’s son in law is Jewish, the Jews are the biggest bankers, we control the Fed, we control Hollywood, all those lawyers, the best attorneys, the best accountants, all the biggest doctors, we have wealth, we have power, yet this proportionate to our size we are only 2%of the population. Look at the Black man. He is 13% of the population, he for the most part, is living in poverty. They feel a tremendous sense of jealousy towards us which turns into a tremendous blood-thirsty hate.”

I pointed out to Yonatan that the recent attacks in NYC didn’t target Jewish bankers, doctors or lawyers but Orthodox Jews who tend to be poor and dependent on income support. Yonatan thinks this is simply because the Orthodox Jews are easily identifiable as Jews. I pointed to Yonatan that rabbinical communities have used some barbarian expansionist tactics to cleanse Blacks and others from areas they want to expand into such as Kiryas Joel, Crown Heights, New Jersey City etc. Yonatan admitted that this is true. The Jewish orthodox communities do indeed use some “unethical means” to accomplish their goal but, he said, they do not behave that way exclusively to Blacks but use such means against Whites as well. Yonatan seems to be saying that Orthodox Jews do not discriminate against Black people in particular, they are, in general, dismissive of others.

Yonatan believes that “Trump is the best friend the Jews have ever had and he has devoted so much effort to standing up for us and defending us…The least we owe him is to stand up for him against this evil leftist Jewish plot to overthrow the greatest hope America has had in many generations. It is our job to be a light onto the nations and that is exactly what we must do – by fighting our enemy from within, the leftist, multiculturalist, reform Jews.”

When I asked Yonatan whether we should expect an open battle between the so-called ‘real Jews’ and the ‘Leftist’ ones any time soon he said he thought so. Yonatan believes that the so-called Goyim do not have the ability to confront or even to address the symptoms of Left Jews: others don’t even begin to understand the depth of the problem. Only ‘real Jews’ can deal with the culturally invasive menace and eventually save the Jews, liberate America and the rest of the world. America is divided, he said, we are “digging in preparing for a boogaloo,” the coming all out civil war between American patriots who adhere to ‘Judeo-Christian values’ and the so called multi cultural left. In placing this future conflict within the context of the American southern/northern division Yonatan sees himself as a contemporary Confederate platoon.

I ended by asking Yonatan whether he can see that the situation in America in some ways resembles Germany in the 1930s. “Certainly,” he said.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Anti-Semitism, Donald Trump, Jews 
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  1. Short version: all Jews hate the cattle.

    • Agree: Marshall Lentini
    • Replies: @romar
    , @Jake
  2. All that hub bub so you could set him up for your famous warning:

    I ended by asking Yonatan whether he can see that the situation in America in some ways resembles Germany in the 1930s. “Certainly,” he said.

    And you got him to agree. LOl You could have saved yourself a long winded article and just asked him the 1930s line to start, and given him some bread crumbs so he would come around.

    Someone many years ago asked Rabbi Schneerson if the holocaust could ever happen again.
    His answer was tomorrow morning, and you think you are enlightening us.

  3. Dutch Boy says:

    It is curious that someone with the attitudes of Mr. Stern would choose to live in a place other than Israel.

  4. utu says:

    “[T]he so-called ‘real Jews’ and the ‘Leftist’ ones” are in strong symbiotic relationship that will never be broken as long as they constitute a minority among gentiles. The ‘real Jews’ are vicarious practitioners of Judaism for the ‘Leftist’ ones while the ‘Leftist’ ones hold the protective umbrella (also financial one) over ‘real Jews’ so their excesses are kept out from the media. Otoh the existence of ‘real Jews’ like Yonatan fuels infantile fantasies of John Derbyshire and Steve Sailor of finding Jewish allies in their fight against their favorite enemy the ‘wild people’. The dichotomy of the ‘real Jews’ and the ‘Leftist’ ones is a perfect pincer grasp that keeps gentiles whether on the Left or on the Right in the permanent semantic and epistemic confusion assuring that the predicament of Jewish power will last.

  5. Dutch Boy says:
    @utu

    I’ve always thought that Derbyshire et all know full well that if they come out as critics of Jews and Judaism they will be quickly canceled. Discretion being the better part of valor, they will stick to criticizing the foot soldiers and not the generals.

    • Replies: @(((They))) Live
  6. @utu

    Jews, left, right, whatever, are all racial supremacists, and all seek dominion over the world.

    As they have from the beginning.

    The chutzpah of this fellow seeking ‘Christian’ allies whom he despises.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Fortunat
  7. @Dutch Boy

    For him, Israel has betrayed it mission … it is going down …

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Hossein
  8. @Dutch Boy

    More curious that someone like Mr. Stern would talk to someone like Gilad in a kosher pizzeria in Monticello.
    Gilad flew there to meet him?

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  9. APilgrim says:

    Yitzhak Yosef, Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Israel, also known as the Rishon LeZion, the rosh yeshiva of Yeshivat Hazon Ovadia, has now been accused of anti-Antisemitism.

    Chief rabbi: Soviet ‘goyim’ immigrants are enemies of religion, By JEREMY SHARON, Jerusalem Post, Diaspora, JANUARY 7, 2020 11:54, https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Chief-rabbi-Soviet-non-Jews-brought-over-to-vote-against-ultra-Orthodox-613392

    Head of the Yisrael Beytenu Party Avigdor Liberman, whose electorate is comprised in the main of immigrants from the former Soviet Union, said that the chief rabbi’s comments were “racist” and “antisemitic,” and called for him to be suspended.

    Bizarre!

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @GMC
  10. joe2.5 says:
    @Dutch Boy

    Well, duh. Where do you think the owners of Zionism live? Not in Palestine, not on your life. They want the safety and comfort of the US. And, by the way, another reason they continue to reside here is that they own most of the US govt, too.

    • Agree: Z-man, Alternate History
    • Replies: @Justsaying
  11. JUSA says:

    Let’s get one thing straight: Yonatan Stern is not an American patriot but an Israeli Patriot, just like Trump, Pompeo, Pence, Kushner, Bolton, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Lindsay Graham, Nancy Pelosi, Pete Buttigieg, Chuck Schumer and all those Congress critters on the Jew payroll.

    This whole interview did not once address Yonatan’s view on Israel and war with Iran. I think we can all guess which way he leans. That’s the problem with the Jews. Whether leftist or rightist, they all want endless immigration and/or endless war. The last thing we need is more of these fifth columnist filths coming over here from Israhell. America used to ban dual citizenship. Thanks to so many Israelis coming over in the last 3 decades to take up citizenship yet still want to keep their Israeli citizenship, we now accept dual citizenship, which is bullshit.

    It’s time to rescind US citizenship from all dual citizens and deport them all to their real home countries.

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin, Moi, Cowboy
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    , @romar
  12. An Israeli “settler”? IOW just some pilpul-spewing liar, stealing Palestinian land.

    Tell him to scamper back to the “holy” land. We have too many liars and crooks here in the US already.

    (A society can survive crooks, subversives and thieves in small numbers or in non-key positions. But once they gain prominence and their crooked, dishonest behaviour becomes, as a consequence, standard operating procedure throughout, that society’s days are numbered.)

  13. @JUSA

    It’s time to rescind US citizenship from all dual citizens and deport them all to their real home countries.

    That seems a bit rash. Do Americans really have trouble with, say, Irish-Americans? Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

  14. @joe2.5

    And that, dear friends, is the mother of all jackpots —- owning an Empire and a clear indication that the real empire and global hegemony is made in and controlled from Israel. That in fact, is the seat of the real Empire. The real coup pulled off by the super imperial Jews is to make their Goyim puppets feel they are in charge.

    • Agree: Alternate History
    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @joe2.5
    , @Fran Taubman
  15. gotmituns says:

    the sh*t is about to hit the fan. “stay low” as we used to say.

    • Agree: Gilad Atzmon
  16. Talha says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Mr. Atzmon,

    It’s mission was what exactly (according to him)?

    Is he saying because they let go of Gaza? Or because they won’t back expanding from Nile to Euphrates? Or because they are allowing gay pride parades in Jerusalem? Or…?

    Which is the mission that he believes Israel has failed? And – possibly more important – why does he feel failure is inevitable and there is no way to hope for recovery/victory?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Gilad Atzmon
  17. Alfred says:
    @APilgrim

    If the Jews in Israel were left to themselves, they would happily kill one another. But so long as they have external enemies, they are OK.

  18. @utu

    I delved into Jewish controlled opposition Here : https://youtu.be/tbx23Ygj3YM

    • Thanks: utu
  19. @Fran Taubman

    Why are you so surprised? I would die to interview rabbi Kahana if I had a chance.. I, by the way, have much more respect to ardent Zionists than the controlled dissent tribals from Jvp to MW who do little but sabotaging every solidarity movement relevant to their existence , making the discourse of the oppressed defined by the sensitivities of the oppressor … https://youtu.be/OQuNw0dWJZE

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @HaroldH
  20. GMC says:
    @APilgrim

    Good Post Pilgrim. LOL — as the old Sephardic Jew tells the Ashkenazi Jews – You ain’t Jew enough to be living here and getting all these Freebee’s that we get from the Germans, Americans, and others. Maybe Israel should be split up with a ” Mason Dixon Line” – and which side will all those African Jews , have to live with ? Was the Rothschild Banker, who bought the Balfour Agreement – a Sephardic or Ashkenazi ? Time for a regime change for peace, in the US and Israel. Spacibo Unz Rev.

  21. What is there to disagree with this Yonatan?Are all the haters here maybe jealous?

    • Replies: @Phil_from_NJ
  22. JT says: • Website

    I share a lot of Yonatan Stern’s opinions, but also Atzmon’s. This is clear from my Twitter comments, and my blog to which Israel Shamir has referred to in his recent articles.

    I think Atzmon’s questions to Stern are incisive. I think Stern’s responses, are representative of my own.

    My question is – what can gentiles offer Jews? To both the Atzmons, and the Sterns, or such as myself? What exactly are our options? What are we supposed to really work with on the gentile end? One cannot choose one’s own ancestry anymore than one’s gender. This goes for the gentiles as well. So what kind of dialogue are we supposed to have?

    I agree with Stern’s characterization of blacks in America, and am piqued by Atzmon’s commentary that Stern’s views are somehow racist in light of Atzmon’s own observation that it is blacks, not whites, who are attacking Jews in NY.

    The Torah is clear about homosexuality, and Stern is absolutely correct that “left wing Jews” (I would not choose these words but they are apt) have gratuitously distorted the Torah.

    Stern’s position is not a case of fear of the Hellenists. It is an accurate critique of progressive Jewish identity that is hardly distinct from Atzmon’s own. Similar to a lot of what Luke Ford says. It remains unclear if Stern is defending some of the Torah’s unrevised “values,” and if he is aware of their problematic nature.

  23. Hossein says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    The mission was the complete annihilation of Palestinians or their total disappearance from occupied Palestine.
    Plestinians have not gone away nor will they ever and shall remain a thorn in the eyes of Zionists supremacists.

    The nonsense spewed about that “mission” is nothing but a colonial supremacist propaganda for the Zionist settlers.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  24. supergoy says:

    There is no conflict between zionist Israeli jews and ‘liberal’ diaspora jews. The goal of every jew is to weaken gentiles and strengthen jews. So they support open borders, gay rights etc in gentile countries, and do the opposite in their own country. I don’t understand why so many on the right don’t get this.

    • Replies: @TKK
    , @Rubicon
  25. Yep, even the coming civil war in America is really an internal Jewish conflict…

  26. Fortunat says:
    @Maple Curtain

    Very true, the insanity and evil never ends with these people, they are basically all revolutionaries by default, why, the orthodox jews just demand conservativism and rigidity to go with it.

    ALL JEWS ARE THIEVES, THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS.

    Very soon, the world will remember this basic truth and act on it.

  27. anon[876] • Disclaimer says:

    Are all ‘jews’ these evil, left ‘jews’ if a person reads between these lines?

  28. Florin N. says:

    “Judeo-Christian” is an oxymoronical term used by people ignorant as to even the basic, essential ethics of either religion.

    https://www.controversyofzion.info/Controversybook/Controversybook_eng_Appendix.htm

    • Agree: Alfred, Mefobills
  29. DanFromCT says:

    At a formal high mass of the orthodox Catholic SPPX society, maybe thirty years ago, celebrating something or other in the latter society’s new cathedral in Ridgefield, Connecticut, there was a large delegation of respectful Chasids whom the celebrant, Bishop Williamson, made a bee line to greet like family when the mass was over. The orthodox of all faiths may yet find common cause against the hideousness of this secular world.

  30. Anon[398] • Disclaimer says:

    “ Yonatan avoided the question probably because the wrong answering could jeopardise his wishful future alliance with the Christian Right.”

    Let’s get real. Jews are literally Satanic:

    “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.“

  31. Skeptikal says:
    @Talha

    “It’s mission . . .”

    That should be:

    “its mission.”

    Just like it is “his,” not “hi’s.”

    “hers,” not “her’s.”

    “theirs,” not “their’s.”

    Get it now?

    • Thanks: Talha
  32. @Gilad Atzmon

    I am surprised at him agreeing to be interviewed by you knowing your feelings about Zionist.
    You have mentioned before that you prefer the real Jews to the make pretend. I agree with you.

    I find it impossible to believe that Stern would say that Israel has failed it’s mission and that it is going down.
    What mission? I have never heard a religious Jewish Zionist speak like that. Illogical.

    I feel like calling him myself to verify. I doubt he said that.

  33. @JT

    Do you believe that Stern would say that Israel is going down and failed its mission?

    • Replies: @JT
  34. TKK says:
    @supergoy

    So they support open borders, gay rights etc in gentile countries, and do the opposite in their own country

    Tel Aviv has more gay bars than most American cities. Its a 100% gay friendly destination. Gay couples make out on the beach. No one cares because the Orthodox don’t go the beach. Its the only group that would push back.

    ” Palestinians”, on the other hand, would have loads of secret gay sex with young boys but then help throw the boy off the building if he was caught.

    Again with the arm chair experts.

    As Jews are an endlessly fascinating fetish to this lot- I suggest a Rick Steves Israel tour. You could eat hummus and view the people that you believe run the entire world from the comfort of a plush tour bus.

    • Replies: @Phil_from_NJ
  35. Z-man says:
    @Justsaying

    Well said.
    Bears repeating.

    And that, dear friends, is the mother of all jackpots —- owning an Empire and a clear indication that the real empire and global hegemony is made in and controlled from Israel. That in fact, is the seat of the real Empire. The real coup pulled off by the super imperial Jews is to make their Goyim puppets feel they are in charge.

  36. Kali says:
    @JT

    My question is – what can gentiles offer Jews?

    Why have “gentiles” to offer “jews” anything at all? I’m stunned that you even ask such a question.

    Was the “gift” of stolen Palestine not enough?
    Was the blood spilled in securing that gift during 2 world wars not enough?
    Was jewish enrichment at gentile expence not enough?
    Is it not enough that “our” governments, politicians, media, education, entertainment… are under jewish control?
    Are the endless wars in the Middle East not enough..?
    Was emancipation and liberation not enough?

    Tell me, JT, when will you be saticfied? When will you stop demanding more?

    What exactly are our options? What are we supposed to really work with on the gentile end?

    How about you quit our governments, quit your conrol of our economies?
    Quit undermining and adulterating our cultures with your “morality”,
    Quit your interference in our electoral proccess’s, our values, our societies so that WE may have something to work with at the “jewish” end?

    Quit whining about how hard-done-by you are as you exact your “reparations” and your profits at the worlds expence.

    Give us options that don’t involve your elimination, that don’t force us to become the monster we detest!

    One cannot choose one’s own ancestry anymore than one’s gender. This goes for the gentiles as well. So what kind of dialogue are we supposed to have?

    I was brought up as a Christian within a liberal-socialist household.
    I am none of those things now.

    Of course I still love and respect my family and my ancestry, but I do not identify as “A christian” because that was the religion of my ancestors.

    I “identify” only as a Living Woman because that is all I am.

    You choose your jewishness, it does not choose you. And that is absolutely fine. Have at it. Choose as you see fit.

    But understand that your chosen god, your chosen religion, entitles you to nothing at all.

    Leave us gentiles to live in peace, sans your tax-farming, exploitative economics, vulture capitalism, cultural interference, political interference… and the whole “jewish problem” experienced by gentiles for centuries, will be errased.

    From your perspective, your “gentile problem” will be errased.

    And we can all get on with our lives in peace.

    Kali.

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin
    • Replies: @JT
    , @Twodees Partain
  37. @Hossein

    I wish it was that simple… the early Zionists were divided about their approach to the people of the land I.e the Palestinians. There is no doubt that Jabotinsky’s Iron Wall won eventually…I also do not buy the colonialist cliche… colonialism is defined by a relationships between a settler state and a mother state…israel is no doubt a settler state but the mothers keep changing…

    • Replies: @Chet Roman
    , @renfro
    , @Skeptikal
  38. Anonymous[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Otoh the existence of ‘real Jews’ like Yonatan fuels infantile fantasies of John Derbyshire and Steve Sailor of finding Jewish allies in their fight against their favorite enemy the ‘wild people’.

    I.e., the Stepin Fetchit of Shabbos goyim.

  39. It is people like himself, he wrote, who “are put into the position of having no choice but to fight right wing white Christian Conservatives, people who would be our natural allies under normal circumstances if these Hellenist Jews weren’t disgracing G-d’s name with their evil.”

    He has no choice! None! Even though he correctly identifies “leftwing jews” as one of the most dangerous elements in America, it has apparently never crossed his mind to reign or at least slow down his Hellenistic brethren? The super smart doctors and lawyers were unable to see the writing on the wall where run-a-way rabid leftist policies would get out of control? So all these bankers and media moguls are flabbergasted and thunder struck that subverting the host nation is not actually good for anyone in the long run, and will bite them in the ass? Honestly I got a kick out of this article, this guy is like the “whose jewing who?” meme come to life.

    If this guy thinks Trump is the best friend jews ever had, that basically makes up my mind on if I should vote for him or not. There’s a debate going on with the dissident right over if Trump serving a second term is good or not, because he does make leftoids go insane, but is that enough considering that’s all he has done. I think it’s time to rip the band aid off, and send the bloviating boomer blob out of office so the best friend of zionism can experience first hand how much zionism is going to help him.

  40. All dual citizenships should be ended. Pretending dual ciizenship isn’t heavily conflict-laden is insanity.

    Any cost to ending dual citizenship would be offset by its benefits.

    • Agree: Alternate History
    • Replies: @Tsigantes
  41. Hodd says:

    There is no natural alliance between Jews and Christians consequently, Jonathon, to use his Christian name in English, is just another Zionist pretending to be something he is not.

    The problem with the Jew is it is so duplicitous by nature, the goyim have to treat them as all the same.

    Since it was physically impossible for the Holocaust to have happened, there will not be another one since the first one was pure fabrication by the Rothschilds to cover up Jewish war crimes on Germany at the direction of Victor Rothschild who was head of MI5, MI6, SOE and all the other clandestine operations in Britain. The alcoholic gambler Churchill was just a front, a facade, behind which Victor Rothschild extended his pure evil over the world.

    Interesting article that only confirms you can’t trust Jews. (Sorry Fred…must be hard for you as a Jew trying to provide a platform for the goyim to communicate on.)

    • Agree: druid55
  42. Cowboy says:

    Let me get this straight. Yonatan has a military styled training camp for orthodox Jews training them to be able to destroy their neo bolshevik atheist brethren. That’s quite the wet dream. I’m all for it.
    In fact, I like it so much Yonatan should set up a go fund me page for a roman Coliseum styled conflict where the goy can enjoy the entertainment.

    • Replies: @Tsigantes
  43. @utu

    It’s like a reservoir fed by a perpetual spring of greater-than-replacement-rate Orthodox Jews. Those who flow over the dam and out into the streams of the wider world we call “Reform Jews”. Deep down they know they are fed by the same source, though they occupy different moments in the cycle.

  44. Talha says:
    @JT

    So what kind of dialogue are we supposed to have?

    Reasonably negotiated shared space with enough of a healthy separation to allow for not stepping on each others’ toes.

    Peace.

  45. Anon[421] • Disclaimer says:

    I struck up a conversation with a redhead with that frizzy hair that could be Jewish or Irish and very tactfully turned to what her ethnicity was. She was born Irish Catholic but had recently converted to Judaism and was very proud of the fact. Let’s say she married a gentile; her children are born Jewish but in reality they would have no DNA that connects them to that supposed ancient nation. Actually, we read in “The Invention of the Jewish People” that Ashkenazi DNA only goes back to the mixed diaspora people after the time of Christ. The idea of a “Jewish Nation” was created by Jews of The Frankfurt School in Germany during the late 1880’s and is in no way an factual.

  46. DaveE says:

    This is like listening to rattlesnakes arguing with boa-constrictors about who “The Chosen Vipers” are. But really, they’re all just snakes and it’s not rational to expect (or even hope for) them to behave or think like anything other than snakes.

    I don’t know (or even care) where these snakes came from, but I know a snake when I see one.

    • Agree: Republic
  47. Wait a minute, do I detect a contradiction?

    ” For Yonatan a Jew who is separated from the Torah can no more be called a Jew. ”

    “In reality these are assimilated, pork-eating, sabbath-desecrating fake Jews”

    So the claim is that the ‘Jews’ that we see running the banks, media, hollywood (etc) are not real Jews. Okay, fair enough. From an orthodox perspective I see how that could make sense.

    ” look at the Jews, we came over at the late 1800s and early 19th century…..We are now at the head of society. Trump’s son in law is Jewish, the Jews are the biggest bankers, we control the Fed, we control Hollywood, all those lawyers, the best attorneys, the best accountants, all the biggest doctors, we have wealth, we have power, yet this proportionate to our size we are only 2%of the population. ”

    Wait a second. Most of those ‘Jews’ are not Jews according to his definition. Does he mean that other people ascribe Jewishness to these individuals? The Orthodox are generally not the ones running the hedge firms and hollywood studios.

    Also, it is false that Jews came over only in the late 1800s. Sephardic Jews were in the New World at its founding, controlling the various sugar, cotton (etc) plantations in Cuba, Brazil, Suriname and beyond. David Yulee Levy and Benjamin Judah were not Ashkenazi. Nor was Emma Lazarus.

    It’s as if Ashkenazi Jews magically forget their Sephardic cousins when the subject of colonialism comes up. This guy is skipping over the central role of Jews in the trans-atlantic slave trade. The ‘British’ merchant families were so heavily Jewish that merchant law in England was effectively Sephardic, not English.

    • Agree: Mefobills
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  48. g b says:
    @Skeptikal

    One ought to be skeptical about punctuation correction of others, especially if it is done selectively, e.g., #31, but not #33. Or should i spell skeptikal.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  49. This interview shows that both participants in the dialog have not succeeded to grasp the essentials of the national question, anywhere.

    A people is a community of destiny. Period. It is an extended family, with its culture, memories, ambitions, taboos, cultural traits etc. Jews are a people defined by their ethnic/national religion & historical culture, memory, taboos, animosities, accomplishments, a sense of belonging.

    So, historical analogy between traditionalist, Judaist Jews & Hellenist Jews may be applicable, but it doesn’t say much: both Judaist & Hellenist Jews were, after all- Jews. Hellenist Jews did not become Greeks. They were just more flexible, acculturated Jews who partially Europeanized themselves.

    Basically, both Jonathan & Gilad confuse ancestry and identity. There is enough in Jewish historical experience that cannot be reduced to religion, especially in past 100-200 years, and it is a paradox within Jewish identity they themselves cannot break free from their self-imposed identity constraints (and racially defined identity by radical misojudaists, which had peaked in WW 2 and Nazi persecution).

    Jonathan is a religious literalist, it seems. He may denounce acculturated Jews like Schiff or many Jewish Democrats (new “Hellenists”), but it doesn’t imply these people are not Jews, ethnically/nationally. They may not be religious, but there is enough space in Jewish identity (language, cuisine, memory, attitude toward the Gentile world,..) that we may consider them to be Jews, nationally.

    On the other hand, it is not realistic to consider people of Jewish ancestry, but not identity, to be Jews. Karl Marx is the best example. He was a German of Jewish ancestry, but not a Jew (whatever others may have thought). He could have been of French, Russian,..whichever ancestry, and that would not make him French or Russia. Herbert Karajan is, I think, of Greek ancestry- but it does not make him a Greek. The fact that Marx could, according to Israeli laws, immigrate to Israel & be considered fully Jewish doesn’t mean anything. He wouldn’t have done it, simply because he was a full German & not a Jew.

    The weakest element in “racially” defined Jewishness is their partial acceptance of Nazi definition of Jewishness. And this is where all barriers break, because many people who perished in the shoah were of Jewish ancestry- but not of identity, anymore. This brings us to the unpleasant illumination: Nazis killed many people who were not Jews anymore, but Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich.. thought they were.

    Israel, by its definition of Jewishness, is close to the Nazi racialist ideology, which has caused tumult in contemporary Israeli society, torn between archaic & modern ideas of nationality:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/chief-rabbi-doubles-down-on-comments-against-immigrants-as-liberman-urges-probe/

    Chief rabbi doubles down on comments against immigrants as Liberman urges probe

    • Disagree: Phil_from_NJ
    • Replies: @Phil_from_NJ
    , @snag
    , @Miggle
  50. utu says:

    This Yonatan Stern guy made me think of Anatoly Karlin who went through a similar life trajectory. Returning to Russia to bring to Russians the toxic gifts of IQism and HBDism he gathered while in America though probably it will not be as lucrative as the gig Yonatan has in Catskills.

    The difference is that Karlin in the US was an immigrant, an exile while Yonatan Stern made Aliyah to his true homeland and decided to abandon it. Why did he leave Israel? Is it possible he could not handle being constantly out-fryered in Israel while in the more genteel culture of America even among American Jews he could find more fryers that he could dominate? A Freudian psychoanalyst could have a field day with people like Stern and Karlin if they dug into various levels of latent homosexuality.

    • Replies: @Talha
  51. Omegabooks [AKA "Anon"] says:

    Could it be this Jewish Supremacist is setting up a group to train Orthodox Jewish Supremacists using Noahide to begin the process of decapitating Christians?

    Come and get me, Yonatan Stern! Watch out for mountain lions.

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  52. babu says:

    Jews are black. These people are Edomites and do not fulfill any of the prophesies of the Bible.

  53. JUSA says:
    @Thulean Friend

    If they still hold Irish citizenship, yes, we do have a problem with them.

    Dual citizenship = dual loyalty. Pick a country and stay there, stay loyal to only that one country. Otherwise, GTFO.

    Btw, being loyal to a country does not mean you have to support everything the government does. In fact, being loyal and patriotic means you need to question a lot of what your government does, esp. when it comes to foreign policy. Who is the government really serving? Is what they do really best for the country, or is it only best for some people, or some other country?

    We don’t need fake “American” Patriots like Yonatan Stern, Ben Shapiro, Javanka, Trump, Pence, Pompeo, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Lindsay Graham, John McCain et. al. The right’s problem is we have too many Israeli patriots pretending to be “American” patriots like this Yonatan Stern.

    • Agree: Phil_from_NJ, anarchyst
  54. Talha says:
    @utu

    Yonatan Stern made Aliyah to his true homeland and decided to abandon it. Why did he leave Israel?

    That’s the million dollar question, isn’t it?

    While Mr. Atzmon made is clear that it is because Stern thinks the Israel is “not fulfilling it’s mission”, he hasn’t eluded to what exactly that failure is? Or why it is going down and cannot be revived?

    I mean this guy is a religious Jew, so it makes sense that he would have some sort of concept of God’s grace or succor to the reconstituted Jewish state after so many centuries upon centuries.

    Hopefully Mr. Atzmon will enlighten us.

    various levels of latent homosexuality

    Low blow – not necessary. Comment was fine without it.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Old and grumpy
    , @utu
  55. @Gilad Atzmon

    Thank you for that clarification and the issue of the “mother” is important if you call it colonialist. I do remember in reading articles printed before the creation of Israel in which a number of authors referred to Jews collectively as the “Jewish Nation”.

    Stern seems to agree to this:
    “The Jewish people is a nation, we are an ancient nation going back to the Biblical Israelites.”

    Wouldn’t the diaspora be considered the “mother” since it’s doubtful that Israel could survive without their control of the narrative and political, financial support?

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  56. The American Jews driving this phoney impeachment campaign from the Left are inextricably intertwined with the Zionist Jews like Netanyahu, Sheldon Adelson and Paul Singer who are increasing the pressure on Trump to go to war with Iran. Both Left and Right-wing Jews are working together to manufacture a strategic tension in the mind of the President that’s been deliberately designed to eventually force Trump to cave in to their Jewish demands.

    • Agree: Phil_from_NJ
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  57. @Talha

    I guess that in his eyes it is too multicultural, it isn’t solely Jewish and I assume that you understand what he means by Jewish…

    • Replies: @Talha
  58. “Yonatan then expressed some ardent racist views. I quote them not because they are true, as they are not, but to provide an accurate portrayal of Yonathan’s world view.”

    Duly noted. You may keep your Twitter and Paypal accounts (for now) and join us for brunch at Sylvia’s.

    BTW, more than a few of us don’t think Yonathan’s “world view” is ardently racist or outta line.

  59. Talha says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    OK, thanks. Makes sense…kind of. Wish there were more details, but I’ll settle for this.

    Although, I recently came across this:
    “The poll, with 5,601 in-person interviews of Israeli adults, conducted between October 2014 and May 2015, found that Israeli Jews increasingly believe the West Bank settlements help, rather than hurt, Israel’s security – and most (61%) believe Israel was given by God to the Jewish people….The survey makes no distinction between Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank and citizens of Israel in its question about whether Arabs should be expelled from Israel. And yet, 48% of Jewish Israelis said they were in favor, 46% were opposed, and 6% said they didn’t know.

    Breaking it down into religious groups, the Modern Orthodox (the report uses the Hebrew term dati’im), were the most likely to support such a measure, at 71%. At the opposite end, secular Jews were most opposed…”
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/plurality-of-jewish-israelis-want-to-expel-arabs-study-shows/

    So it seems weird that someone like him would not want to stick around and help increase those numbers and ratios and decrease the secular Jewish numbers on that question (especially if this particular sentiment is actually rising) – if that’s why he left….

    Oh well.

    Peace.

  60. “Impeachment and Antisemitism

    An interview with Yonatan Stern, a Jewish Settler and an American patriot”

    This whole impeachment charade is a disgusting farce. It was planned even before DT set foot in the White House.

    “Antisemitism” follows Jews wherever they’ve settled and come to dominate amongst the clueless goyim. Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with the way Jews as a group (not all Jews) behave and the policies they push that are contrary to the locals’ interests? Hmmm…yeah, that’s it.

    “Jewish settler.” Now that’s a euphemism if ever I heard one. Lol…

    If Vonatan is truly an patriotic American Jew, he’d be dead set against and speaking out against America’s ongoing aggression in the Middle East on behalf of his “settler” kin in the Zionist state.

  61. renfro says:
    @JT

    My question is – what can gentiles offer Jews? To both the Atzmons, and the Sterns, or such as myself? What exactly are our options? What are we supposed to really work with on the gentile end?

    Gentiles will offer the Jews and Israel the option to shut up, end their occupation of Palestine , cease their US politics for Israel and then live or die on their own dime and blood.

  62. renfro says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    The actual definition of Colonialism is a powerful nation controlling a weaker one for economic gain.
    Israel goes a step further than just economic gain in trying to rid the country they control of its natives.
    That is not something past European colonizers did.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  63. Wally says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “Someone many years ago asked Rabbi Schneerson if the holocaust could ever happen again.”

    LOL

    A non sequitur.
    If never “happened” in the first place, so obviously it could never “happen again”.

    The games that some people play.

  64. ” Yet look at the Jews, we came over at the late 1800s and early 19th century. And look where we have come, we came poor, with rugs on our backs, we worked in sweatshops. We are now at the head of society. Trump’s son in law is Jewish, the Jews are the biggest bankers, we control the Fed, we control Hollywood, all those lawyers, the best attorneys, the best accountants, all the biggest doctors, we have wealth, we have power, yet this proportionate to our size we are only 2%of the population. “

    I’m going to save that quote and use it every chance I get to prove my point and defend my position whenever the occasion arises.

    Now if I or any other Jew-wise American stated this publicly, we’d be denounced as an “antisemites” by the usual suspects.

    “we have wealth, we have power, yet this proportionate to our size we are only 2%of the population.”

    And not entirely be scrupulous means either or because Jews are so much more intelligent. (1) A very strong sense of identity and nepotism played and still plays a very large part in the Jews rise to power and success. That’s a not too well-known but documented fact.

    Alex Linder once stated, and I paraphrase: “Jews operate like a team. A team always beats a single opponent.”

    Where’s Team White? I want to join.

    (1) Fact: More high IQ goyim in America than all the high IQ Jews and the entire Jewish population in the USA so that is not the primary reason for the Jews’ collective success.

    • Replies: @Talha
  65. @Talha

    Jews of yesteryear never thought Palestine was their homeland. Israel was a Rothschild invention to cause emotional discord amongst everyone so as to presumably steal the oil. Plus war is lucrative, and so much fun when the goy do it. Unfortunately Israel isn’t playing the victim card very well these days, and ironically due to Trump.

    I’m guessing we are next for the destruction/ genocide fate as a way to pivot towards the far east. Killing fellow Jews is a necessary evil so as to manipulate emotions of their host. Doubt the “poor whittle us” stick works on the Chinese. Thankfully dynastic ambitions and Trump tariffs running up their debt will be a weak spot. Civil War debt was the beginning of the end for us. Being chosen must be some powerful mojo, but it must be exhausting to be one.

    • Replies: @Talha
  66. “These Hellenist (Greek) frauds represent everything that is evil and ugly about American Judaism and they perpetuate the myth of the hook-nosed subversive Jew being behind every insidious attempt to undermine their host countries.”

    If it were a myth, you wouldn’t be angry at them for doing exactly that, as you point out, would you Yonatan?

  67. romar says:
    @Maple Curtain

    What? Did you read the article? That’s not at all what it’s about.
    It’s about how a certain class/faction of Jews are ruining America – thereby endangering the rest of the Jews.

    • Disagree: Nonny Mouse
  68. @Bardon Kaldian

    “Karl Marx is the best example. He was a German of Jewish ancestry, but not a Jew (whatever others may have thought). He could have been of French, Russian,..whichever ancestry, and that would not make him French or Russia. Herbert Karajan is, I think, of Greek ancestry- but it does not make him a Greek. The fact that Marx could, according to Israeli laws, immigrate to Israel & be considered fully Jewish doesn’t mean anything. He wouldn’t have done it, simply because he was a full German & not a Jew.”

    What a crock of sh*t! Do you really think you’d get away with that statement here? This isn’t Breitbart or some other ‘conservative’ web site. Karl Marx was German-Jew. Herschel Mordechai. Karl Marx’s father converted to Lutherism and changed his name to Heinrich Marx before Karl was born.

    Here’s the reality of the matter and I’ll use Jewish sources:

    “No one pretends that a Japanese or Indian child is English because it was born in England. The same applies to Jews.” –Jewish World, London September 22, 1915

    “We are not Whites — either symbolically or literally — as anyone knows who goes to Israel.”–Professor Leonard Fein at speech at 27th biennial congress of the Jewish Board of Deputies in Johannesburg, SA May 15, 1972.

    “The concept of racial purity within the Jewish nation is not a myth. The only facts to determine Jewishness should be purely an hereditary one regardless of Jewish observance. A Jew is some-one from Jewish stock. No one can make a gentile Jewish. We must retain our own exclusivity in order to survive and not be infiltrated by outsiders.”–Jeffrey Kwintner

    “The white race is the cancer of humanity.”–Susan Sontag (For sure this vile Jewish bigot was not talking about herself or her tribe)

    I can give you more quotes if you like. I have several more.

    The reality of the matter is this: A Jew is Jewish by blood–not religion–no matter where on earth he is born. Israel’s “law of return” backs this up.

    • Disagree: Kali
    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @Jake
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Kali
  69. romar says:
    @JUSA

    “This whole interview did not once address Yonatan’s view on Israel and war with Iran.”
    Why should it? The topic was Yonatan’s concern that “leftist” Jews who control America are ruining America and indeed the entire world. Including, by implication, Iran and the rest.
    Or is it that you dislike that conclusion? Then why don’t you just say so?

  70. Jake says:
    @Maple Curtain

    Not all. Not even almost all.

    But it is true that a very large percentage of Jews, regardless of where they live or their educational or socio-economic status or their basic political beliefs, will take advantage of most opportunities to stick it to the goyim.

    David Cole has another good article on the matter at Taki’s Magazine titled ‘Suicide (Final) Solution.’

    This is a spiritual war. Fighting it in any way other than with a drive to rebuild Christendom is at best a waste of time and energy.

    • Replies: @36 ulster
  71. Talha says:
    @Old and grumpy

    Jews of yesteryear never thought Palestine was their homeland.

    Well, they certainly never mass-settled in it though there was plenty of ability to do so. Even Rambam (one of their most famous rabbis), who served as the personal physician to Saladin (ra) didn’t feel strong enough to reside in Jerusalem after the Crusaders were kicked out. He remained in Egypt even a decade after the sultan died; his body was dug up after his death and taken and reburied in the Holy Land.

    The Zionists were very pissed off at the Jews in places like Iraq and Egypt because they simply were not on board with uprooting themselves for their pipe-dream. You should read some of the insulting things they had to say about them. Chaim Weisman tried to recruit the Jews of Egypt to the Zionist plan and came to the conclusion that the Jews of Egypt are hopeless and they are like the Copts and Muslims of Egypt, spending their time in their houses of worship. And that the rich Jews were worried this would be the end of Jewish business in Egypt. There was a great documentary about this called “The Jews of Egypt”.

    Being chosen must be some powerful mojo, but it must be exhausting to be one.

    Hmmmm…*

    Peace.

    [MORE]

    *”Live the life of a thug nigga until the day I die
    Live the life of a boss player ’cause even gettin’ high
    All eyes on me
    All eyes on me”

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  72. Jake says:
    @Phil_from_NJ

    Jewishness is a religion predicated upon race/ethnicity. That is how and why racial/ethnic Jews who religiously are atheist/agnostic or Buddhist or Hindu or Shinto or New Age American Indian-playacting or Unitarian-Universalist or Scientologist or even Mohammedan are still Jews.

    Jews who become orthodox Christian are seen as race traitors.

  73. Talha says:
    @Phil_from_NJ

    “…the Jews are the biggest bankers, we control the Fed, we control Hollywood, all those lawyers, the best attorneys, the best accountants, all the biggest doctors, we have wealth, we have power…”

    That kind of boast is usually followed by the customary “Thugg Lyfe, Nigga!!!” in the streets, but the dude is an immigrant, so…

    Peace.

  74. Skeptikal says:
    @g b

    Ha ha, gb reads something into nothing.

    Yours, Skeptikal

  75. Skeptikal says:
    @JT

    “My question is – what can gentiles offer Jews? To both the Atzmons, and the Sterns, or such as myself? What exactly are our options? What are we supposed to really work with on the gentile end? One cannot choose one’s own ancestry anymore than one’s gender. This goes for the gentiles as well. So what kind of dialogue are we supposed to have? ”

    Gentiles don’t have to “offer Jews” a damned thing.
    Gentiles do not owe Jews a “dialogue.” What in the world makes JT think they do?
    Jews should shut up about being Jewish and spare the rest of the community the constant navel gazing and demand for special attention.

    I do not give a flying eff about your ambivalent feelings about being Jewish.
    I do not want to read special op-eds about “what it means to be Jewish” when every friggin’ Jewish holiday rolls around.

    I don’t want to see Hanukkah candles on the lawn of town hall at Christmas.
    I want to see Christmas decorations.

    Stop trying to occupy a special, outsized place in the mental real estate of the country.

    The Jews are like a child that can’t stop whining and screaming for attention.
    Just be quiet.

    • Replies: @snag
    , @anonymous
    , @JT
    , @Colin Wright
  76. Skeptikal says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    ” colonialism is defined by a relationships between a settler state and a mother state…”

    Perhaps that definition is inadequate.
    In fact, it does seem to me to be quite inadequate, and historically inaccurate.
    Anyhow, there was more than one “mother state” in the case of those who colonized North America.
    Even what became the United States was colonized by colonists from many countries.
    Also, colonists from multiple European countries colonized various regions of South America.
    So, I don’t follow the “mother state” argument.
    In fact, the Jews seem to be a more cohesive ethnic group than most. Seeing Jewishness as an ethnicity that has turned its new colony into a country/nationality.

    I am not in favor of any of this, mind you! Just saying, I don’t follow the “mother state” idea.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  77. utu says:
    @Talha

    Low blow – Not really. Just using Frankfurt School method of inquiry into the authoritarian personality issue. Both Yonatan and Anatoly seem to have strong feelings about homosexuality. While we all agree that globo-homo is an enemy of our civilization homosexuals who are not politicized were always a part of our civilization and did not pose a threat as long as they were kept on a moderately short leash. Think of Leonardo Da Vinci or Gore Vidal: they did not see themselves as homosexuals because such identity construct did not exist so there was no homosexual politics or world view, or philosophy. They just engaged in homosexual relations which did not define them. In some Catholic countries homosexual acts were not penalized since late 19 century while in Protestant countries people were sent to prison (Oscar Wilde) or driven to suicide (Alan Turing) in the 2nd half of 20th century.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  78. snag says:

    ‘Judeo-Christian values’ ? There’s no such a thing like Judeo-Christian or Judeo-Christian values I happen to have a 1966 edition of Webster Dictionary in front of me, can’t find it.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  79. Tsigantes says:
    @JT

    Extraordinary question and I wish you’d explain it.

    In turn I ask what do jews have to offer gentiles?
    Maybe you can answer that.

    • Replies: @JT
  80. Tsigantes says:
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    There was always a form of dual citizenship. But it meant that you couldn’t vote and you couldn’t run for public office. That seems reasonable.

  81. snag says:
    @Skeptikal

    “Jews should shut up about being Jewish and spare the rest of the community the constant navel gazing and demand for special attention.” ,…

  82. Tsigantes says:
    @Cowboy

    Be careful what you wish for, it might not stop with bolshevik brethren.

    • Replies: @Cowboy
  83. anonymous[178] • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    Gentiles don’t have to “offer Jews” a damned thing.
    Gentiles do not owe Jews a “dialogue.” What in the world makes JT think they do?
    Jews should shut up about being Jewish and spare the rest of the community the constant navel gazing and demand for special attention.

    Skeptikal, I think I love you.

    The Jews are like a child that can’t stop whining and screaming for attention.

    The corpse at every wedding, the bride at every funeral.

  84. @Fran Taubman

    “Someone many years ago asked Rabbi Schneerson if the holocaust could ever happen again.
    His answer was tomorrow morning…”

    Lol…that’s funny.

    Not one Jew or non-Jew was ever killed in a gas chamber in any of the internment and labor camps simply because NO bona fide or makeshift gas chambers (read: shower rooms which never could have functioned as such–for the six-millionth time!) were there. That being the case, being interned in concentration camps even if you passed away there due to old age, Typhus or some other disease or illness, executed for committing a crime or violating some camp regulation IS NOT A “HOLOCAUST”–at least not in the minds of normal, sane people.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: Executing prisoners in gas chambers was an American procedure–not a German one.

    The only real “holocaust survivors” are those lice that escaped the delousing process which “gassed” the clothing the lice-infested Jews where wearing when they checked into the camps.

    This rabbi is more in touch with reality:

    “The Holocaust is a successful historical FICTION” – – Chief Rabbi Moshe Arye Friedman, Vienna, Suddeutsche Zeitung, Dec. 12, 2006, p. 7

  85. @White Monkey

    “What is there to disagree with this Yonatan?Are all the haters here maybe jealous?”

    How lame. Is that the best you can do? Lol…

  86. 36 ulster says:
    @Jake

    Just read Cole’s article myself. Kudos to both of you.

  87. Cowboy says:
    @Tsigantes

    We should fear the raging orthodox Jewish horde who will rampage the landscape with pillage and rape?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  88. JT says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    I am a bit of a religious myself, and I fear that I fall into that camp of what we call Divine Israel, rather than the Land of Israel.

  89. @TKK

    “” Palestinians”, on the other hand, would have loads of secret gay sex with young boys but then help throw the boy off the building if he was caught.”

    Show us proof. Objective, preferably non-Jewish sources, please.

  90. JT says:
    @Kali

    I think you misunderstood the intent of my question, but I also think you are confused about your own identity.

    We all have some kind of heritage. We can’t undo that, and I wont waste time debating this. We don’t choose it, and it seems you are taking the left-wing line that “we choose” it rather than it choosing us. That is where we part company entirely, and I fear we have no common ground whatsoever. That is the primary conflict, from which all others start.

    For anyone who has the courage to assume their heritage, who understands that you cannot undo what you have been given, you understand that we did not choose anymore to be Jews than you choose to be non-Jews.

    As such, the question is how do we get along with what we already are? In asking “what do the gentiles offer” I meant how do we get along?

    There is no more point in blaming Jews for tax-farming, than in Jews blaming all gentiles for the Holocaust. It is a pointless exercise, but assuming that our identities are chosen, is precisely what drives it. It’s what drives the ease with which everyone’s historical experience is negated. By the same token you wish to negate my identity, you negate your own, and by that same token, your suffering, at the hands of Jews, is negated. It doesn’t’ exist, because neither you nor I exist. This is the logic of all relativist comments.

    How do we get along, with relativists? People who deny their own heritage, and seek to deny that of others?

    When you deny your own roots, those of your parents, you deny just as easily the roots of others, their parents. This is a destructive process. You may choose to destroy your own heritage, your own parents, your own roots. Unfortunately in doing so, you destroy those of others, and regardless of how poorly we might get along as people of different heritage, the destruction of your own roots, and those of others, will always be the primary, most menacing, most immediate form of destruction that anyone who wishes to defend their family, will react to.

    Once you are clear about who you are, the next step is figuring out how we get along among ourselves, with our different heritage.

    If we cannot agree to having heritage, then we are already at each other’s throats. Which is patent from our exchange already.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Kali
  91. JT says: • Website
    @Skeptikal

    I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with you, were it not for the simple misunderstanding of my question.

    I am not asking you, what you can give me, in material terms, I am asking you, what you expect of yourself, faced with a people like ourselves.

    If you don’t have an identity, or don’t wish to have one, on what terms do you want to sport with Jews?

    The reason I don’t disagree with you, is that historically America was a Christian country, and this never posed a problem for Jews.

    Jewish culture does have potential for discretion. For hundreds of years Jewish religious sites were discreet, intent on not attracting attention, Jewish holidays were kept out of gentile views…frankly, that would be entirely inappropriate in today’s world.

    What I suggest, is that gentiles need to decide who they want to be, i.e. in bringing something to the table.

    Just look at yourselves. What is the chaos of your current consumer driven identities about? Even your Christianity is fake. It’s consumerist. Lacks intimacy, sincerity, conviction. It’s no different from left-wing right-wing infotainment TV polarization.

    • Replies: @Tusk
    , @Skeptikal
    , @Kali
  92. snag says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    How convenient ,…

    … if there’s something to brag about then he or she is Jewish like Einstein but if there’s something negative then monsters like Kaganowich or Yagoda become the Commies, not Jews,

    Fritz Haber – Jewish chemist in pre WWI Germany known to history as the “father” of chemical warfare and Zyclon B. allegedly used in Auschwitz – Birkenau concentration camps, and remembered for having personally overseen and supervising the first successful use of chlorine poison gas during the Second Battle of Ypres, resulting in over 67,000 casualties in MSM and Wiki he’s is portrayed as German never as Jew.

    Viktor Bout a Jew in Jew infested MSM he’s a Russian Death Merchant, not Jewish

    Talking about over representation,

    Out of those greedy ‘Russian Oligarchs’ 9 out of 12 happen to be Jewish.

    Despite that the producers are working very hard on an inclusiveness in documentary ‘American Greed’ more than 8 out of 10 of those crooks happen to be a Jewish.

    Looking at the so called Russian collusion impeachment farce, almost all of the accusers are Jews but try to note it and say something (((they))) tag you an anti Semite before you blink.

    … and on, and on, and on ,…

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  93. Hibernian says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Do Americans really have trouble with, say, Irish-Americans?

    Some do.

  94. Rubicon says:
    @supergoy

    Thanks, Gilad, for pointing out that NO jews should be allowed in the US.

    Let America rid itself the Jewish banksters, the entire AIPAC, other Jewish-controlled think tanks and all members of the judicial system.

    We want NOTHING to do with JEWs with this kind of mindset.
    Go HOME>

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  95. Yonatan believes that the so-called Goyim do not have the ability to confront or even to address the symptoms of Left Jews
    Bingo, must be in the front row…

  96. Tusk says:
    @JT

    The reason I don’t disagree with you, is that historically America was a Christian country, and this never posed a problem for Jews.

    I wonder who was behind the attempt to destroy this Christian nation and turn it into a melting pot.

    What I suggest, is that gentiles need to decide who they want to be, i.e. in bringing something to the table.

    Jews don’t have a table to bring anything to. You’re in America, what do you have to offer Americans besides zionism and judeo-leftist progressivism? You came to the door bearing the plague not gifts and now have the gall to ask what the homeowner should bring you as a guest to appease you?

    You seem quite delusional to be honest seemingly attacking the goyim for “consumeris[m]. Lack [of] intimacy, sincerety, conviction” whereas all of these could be described as the erosion of historic institutions by multicultural/non-WASP agitation, intimacy could be explored through Jewish activities in pushing pornography both online and through Hollywood, sincerety could be explained through materialism and athiesm which again is partially manifest by Christian decline. Forgetting the fact that the Jews were the guests in the Western house who brought the locusts, and now you complain that the house, not even yours, is full of locusts and ask the owner what he’s going to do about it to solve your issues? Bizarre, incoherent and delusional beyond all measure.

    • Replies: @mark green
  97. ld says:

    Thank you for posting this but many thanks to all who responded.

    I can barely stomach reading Zionist posts and and only attempted to do so because it was published here.
    I spent much of my young life influenced by the holocaust. I watched all the Hollywood depictions. I learned to speak German and went to Munich to study. I visited Dachau and Buchenwald. I was so moved and horrified by the plight and persecution of the Jews I became an advocate/activist against anti-Semitism.

    Later in life I went back to school and studied geo politics and media. Changed my world view and I did a complete 180. I was horrified by the behaviour in videos of settlers tormenting Palestinians, their boorish behaviour. Throwing old ladies out of their ancestral homes… putting her out and ignoring her cries as if she were a dog on the street. Soldiers killing small children. Hundreds of videos smuggled onto the internet by the Refusniks… all scrubbed from public consumption now.

    I am no longer sure the holocaust was real. I detest Israel and my anger has spread to Jews in general. I do not want to hate people but I cannot squelch my disgust and wish to see them punished.

    I have been reading some of the scholars offered here on this site and they seem very credible.

    An Old Dog

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Robjil
  98. JT says: • Website
    @Tsigantes

    I’m afraid this will sound corny.

    Ideally, we should strive to live in mutual respect of our respective traditions.

  99. When Jack L. Warner’s (or Warner Brother’s fame) son wanted to see the beauty of Russia, after being convinced by the temporary egalitarianism of Stalin’s Potemkin Village, Jack made a prescient comment. He was unhappy with his son, who subsequently went to the mudderland and was impressed. However, the old man enlightened his hippie son eventually, good for him. He told his son that “Communist Jews will ruin it for everyone”. Truer words were never spoken. There is a reason that the greatest fear of a rabbi (not the reform blasphemers) is that of assimilation. The general feeling is that the strengths of Judaism; namely education and tradition, will be used inappropriately and will cause all manner of problems. An example is that of Trotsky, who famously berated the Chief Rabbi of Moscow for requesting consideration for religious Jews. Atheists regularly fall prey to the Enemy which they refuse to admit exists, though is obvious to the casual observer. And even a blind man could see the evil that was unleashed by the assimilated Jews of Bolshevism

  100. Skeptikal says:
    @JT

    “I am not asking you, what you can give me, in material terms, I am asking you, what you expect of yourself, faced with a people like ourselves.

    If you don’t have an identity, or don’t wish to have one, on what terms do you want to sport with Jews?

    What I suggest, is that gentiles need to decide who they want to be, i.e. in bringing something to the table.”
    ++++++++++
    Let me see if I’ve got this straight.
    I need to decide who I am as a Gentile and it is your task to inform me of my missing identity. Presumably the corollary to this is that it is for you to “approve” or “disapprove” of my “Gentile identity.”
    You inform me that I don’t know “who I want to be.”
    Who I want to be is only relevant if my identity/who I want to be is defined in relationship to Jews. To have an identity I must make it a priority to “sport” with Jews.
    Because in your exalted sight I don’t have an identity, I am not good enough to “sport” with you as a Jew.

    You are really fucked up, man.
    What don’t you understand about “Leave me alone.”
    I am not interested in you except as a problem to avoid.
    You are like a stalker. Relentless. A psychopath.

    Das ist wirklich masslose Arroganz.

    Fuck off.

    • Agree: Tusk, Kolya Krassotkin
    • Replies: @JT
  101. Skeptikal says:
    @ld

    “I detest Israel and my anger has spread to Jews in general. I do not want to hate people but I cannot squelch my disgust and wish to see them punished.”

    You said it!
    My hatred of Israel has spread to all Jews.
    I used not to notice whether someone was Jewish or not. If they were, fine, I didn’t care.
    Now the first thing I note about a person is whether they are Jewish , and if so, in most cases I steer clear. Many Jews are indeed pushy, clueless, and overbearing.
    I think they have become more so since Israel became such an aggressive occupying apartheid state.
    They assume that one agrees with them on all of the PC attitudes they espouse.
    And of course most of them have totally hsyterical responses to the issue of Israel and Palestine and their victimhood. “It is happening here.” This is uttered by very secure middle-class Jews who have second homes, etc.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  102. getaclue says:

    This is a great article by another Jew who sees it about the same, very accurate from what I’ve experience– should be posted as an UNZ articl too!:
    https://www.takimag.com/article/suicide-final-solution/

  103. @JT

    You do not get it. Kali thinks that the Jewish heritage is inherently evil.
    Can you imagine summing up one entire group, tribe or religion as the cause of all the problems.
    Kali claims that Ashkenazi Jews (which she thinks are not Jews) are destroying Europe and taking the world to the brink of destruction.
    How do you argue with someone so ignorant.

  104. @Thulean Friend

    ‘Do Americans really have trouble with, say, Irish-Americans? ‘

    How many Irish-Americans hold dual citizenship?

  105. @Skeptikal

    Imagine if, say, Polish-Americans went on and on like this.

    They just as reasonably could — but they don’t.

  106. @Rubicon

    Hey Jew hatter we are here and not going anywhere. How do we get along. That is what JT is asking.
    What is your answer to that.
    Hatters got to hate. That is your answer? How surreal is that.
    Stop dehumanizing Jews we have contributed mightily to the advancement of humanity.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @SolontoCroesus
  107. Biff says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Hatters got to hate.

    Don’t they go mad first???

    • LOL: Talha, Fran Taubman
  108. @Fran Taubman

    You’re interested in the Gilad Atzmon’s MO, not the conclusion of Stern and how he arrived at his world view. Atzmon concedes to hsving had an interview, whereas you want a rhetorical simplification to arrive at a conclusion. Your critique of Mr. Atzmon is sidestepping the issue.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  109. I see the same problems within the Jewish club as I do in the Masons, as well in all other closely-knit or exclusive groups, organizations, or religions, with an attitude of entitlement, which they use to advance themselves with unfair and exploitative means over outsiders. However, the Ashkenazi Jews, from all counts appear exceptional in this regard. After this latest debacle in the Middle East, which still may eventually lead to a major war, the evidence is that it is mainly Israel and the US who think that because they want something they have some kind of absolute right to take it. The US justification for taking another nation’s oil reserves is mainly that they “need” it (Hudson, Greenspan, etc.). This attitude may be a result of their military dominance which to some extent is kept in check by rival superpowers, but in so far as it is based on the idea that “might makes right”, in my view it is pure evil. The same ruthlessness was used by the Ashkenazi Rothschild’s in creating Israel, and they continue by any means they can to add acre to acre to that nation, as well as more money to their coffers.

    Another issue is the fact that the US is essentially run by the same crowd. I have found no rebuttal for the numbers and names of actual people found at the site proving that in every major branch of US finances, government, media, entertainment, or anything to do with wielding any real power, the Ashkenazi Jews control virtually everything. For their relatively tiny percentage of the general population, all the real power spots they control. There is no crime in that, but it does signify a great deal of unfair and even foul play, as it was not just merit, brians, or talent which gave them such dominance. It was most certainly their persistent and unquestionable drive to dominate and control, while taking advantage of trusting outsiders as if they were enemies to exploit – not on all occasions, but on enough occasions and examples to justify the contention. Their undoing is beginning to occur once again, and it really began with 9/11. My hope that the power balance can be restored without injustice, violence, or any kind of hatred or suffering. The Masons behave pretty much the same way and with most of the Ashkenazi power brokers likely being members of that fraternity, it is no surprise that the Masons are almost as dominant. The innocent in both groups complain they should not be painted with the same brush as those who are more ruthless. However, with a clean hand not wanting to know what the dirty hand is doing or taking responsibility for any skullduggery by their group but benefitting just the same, then it is inevitable that the entire groups must be held accountable.

    One cannot expect people to shed their favoritism for their friends, family, religion, or group, such that everyone is bound by law to practice the “golden rule”. However, unless everyone starts practicing the “silver rule” – not doing to others (meaning “outsiders”), what you do not want done to yourself – and we start making and enforcing laws to trust bust and prevent abuses of power and wealth for exclusive or special interests, then we are all headed for self destruction.

  110. @Skeptikal

    Correcting the language of others is not a wise thing to do. Many people have not had English as their
    first language. Pedantry is not to be used as a weapon.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  111. @Cowboy

    Run for the hills!!! Protect your women.

  112. @Alternate History

    Not exactly I am questioning the veracity of Gilad’s article.

  113. @Chet Roman

    This is a good point… But then if the ‘Jewish Diaspora’ or ‘world Jewry’ are Israel’s ‘mother state’ then the left so called dichotomy between Jews and Zionism collapses…. it would mean that world jewry is complicit in Israel’s crimes..

  114. @Skeptikal

    What you are referring to is a battle between different colonial forces (mother states) over one colony … the case of Zionism is different, the settlers keep changing their mothers…. they basically pick surrogate mothers…

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  115. @snag

    This is boring: Einstein, Kaganovich, Uritsky,Yagoda …. Kafka, Jackson Pollock, Modigliani, Spielberg, Bugsy Siegel, … were Jews. They possessed Jewish identity.

    Haber was not a Jew; he was forced out of German identity by Nazi racial laws.

    People with wholly or partially Jewish ancestry, but not Jewish identity are, for instance: Karl Marx, Karl Landsteiner, Marcel Proust, Boris Pasternak, Eduard Bernstein, Rudolf Hilferding, ….

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @snag
  116. Kali says:
    @Phil_from_NJ

    Nonsense.
    Judaism is an identity of choice.

    Whilst it’s true to say that this identity is inoctrinated into “jews” from birth it’s ridiculous to suggest that a black African “jew” and a white Ashkanazi “jew” are one race “by blood”.

    Despite that certain “jews” may wish to claim some inherrant racial charactaristics the African “jews” currently being deported from occupied Palestine make a lie of that claim.

    In the meantime many many former “jews”, including Gilad Atzmon, have rejected jewish identity, in favour of their innate humanity.

    Nobody HAS to be jewish. It’s a choice, tied up with ego identity. – It must be quite compelling to be told you’re special in the eyes of “god” and that you are destined to save the world from it’s “immorallity”, i.e. non-jewishness.

    But as adults we all get to choose for ourselves what is or isn’t acceptable to us. Those who continue to identify as “jewish”, chosen, special do so because it suits their egoic perception of themselves.

    Kali.

  117. @Talha

    I had a very close friend who passed away recently Lucette Lagnado who wrote:
    The Man in the White Shark Skin Suit Her family was kicked out of Egypt after Nasser’s Pan Arabism came to power in the 1950’s. Her mothers family lived in Syria for generations.
    Her father was a business man who hung out at the Cairo Hilton till all hours of the morning, and adored Egypt. Cried when he left. Jewish agencies helped them from Egypt to Paris to the US.
    Her father ended up selling ties in the subway. So much for rich Jews. She writes poetically of life in Egypt the food the smells. Brilliant book. Very on topic of what you are saying.

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/impeachment-and-antisemitism/#comment-3651907

  118. Kali says:
    @JT

    JT,

    You confuse identity (I am a ___) with herritage (my family history is ___).

    I don’t deny my herritage any more than you do. But I do deny that that herritage is Who I Am.

    Beyond ideologies, beyond membership of some organised religion, beyond “left/right” political identification, beyond the collective culture of my people… beyond all things imposed upon me by externalities, I am a Living Woman.
    This undeniable fact places me in a superior possition, spiritualky speaking, to any construct of “reality” you or anyone else may choose for yourself or wish to impose on me.

    You ask (in typicalky “jewish” fashion if I may say) what the gentile offers the jew, then explain that you didn’t quite mean it that way, you meant something much more benign – how might we reach a dialogue. Can you see how others may be upset by you choice of words?

    I suggest that a period of deep self-examination on you part may be in order, which goes beyond your identity as a jew and into the heart of your being as a Living Man/Woman.

    It is only through such deep sekf-enquiery that any of us can arrive at the Truth. – You are not, in fact, at essence, “a jew” no mater how tightly you cling to that identity, because “jewishness”, like “liberal”, “conservative”, “”communist”, “mormon”, “philanthropist, “jounalist”… is a CONSTRUCT, and therefore entirely non-essential.

    And though these contructs may indeed inform our behaviour and our attitudes they do not determine who or what we are – UNLESS we are willing to accept ideoligies and beliefs in place of seeking the existential Truth of our being.

    How might we get along? How may we reach an understanding?

    By following the ONLY Divine Law: Know Yourself.

    Untill humanity looks veyond social constructs to disciver its True Nature the conflicts will continue.

    What you characterise as my “denial” of my herritage, which is in fact my search for the Truth of ny Being, is indeed a most destructive process.

    But it does not result in war, in the systematic extermination of the Palestinian people, in the exploitation of one group over another, in greed or aekf agrandisement.

    My search for the Truth of my Being, this process which destroys idiology/idolatry, results in peace.

    Kali.

    • Replies: @JT
  119. @Fran Taubman

    Stop dehumanizing Jews we have contributed mightily to the advancement of humanity.

    Not on balance, no, Jews have not contributed “mightily” or even in minor ways to the advancement of humanity, certainly not when weighed against the terrible destruction Jews have wreaked on people who created the institutions and climate that provided Jews access to education and prosperity.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  120. JT says: • Website
    @Kali

    I see, the chosen of the chosen, Kali. Possessor of ultimate truth, knowledge, the “Living Woman,” our Torahs, Bibles, Korans, mere artifacts of a foul past of those who ignorantly confuse identity with heritage.

    Sorry to be so old fashioned. Please enlighten me how your personal religion isn’t a social construct, or if you will, an individual one? You are obviously self-chosen, a pro at construction, socially.

    I would appreciate more insight into the difference between identity and heritage, fill-in-the-blanks aren’t arguments. Just the Circumlocution Office.

  121. JT says: • Website
    @Skeptikal

    @Skeptikal

    When it comes to choosing words, someone as easily offended as yourself can’t be pleased. I have no issues with you choosing to hate…in fact, like Stern and Atzmon, I can understand it.

    It just goes right back to my question, what can you offer? You’re asking us to offer you something, all the time, but you’re never asking yourself what you want to offer us? You can hate, fine, but where do you go with it?

    Claiming that Jews ruined America, is as factually incorrect as claiming we built it. Both are partial truths. Both ignore your own role, of which you seem to be completely ignorant. You think and talk like the people you hate – the victim classes. As with all victims, you have no concept of your own responsibility.

    I think both in the case of Stern, and myself we are keenly aware that as Jews, we are not victims, although we are both clearly, along with Atzmon, and many others, critical of our own Jewish proclivity to be in the victims class. This makes us self-critical. I suppose that we’ll all get along when more of us are willing to admit to our own short-comings. When you assume your responsibility, we assume ours, and it’s no longer a win-lose game.

    The relativist attitude, the “I possess-my-personal truth” of social isolates atomized by self-help consumerist culture, the “I don’t give a shit about your ‘constructions’ whereas my vision is the truth,” are poison in the well.

    its precisely this kind of schizophrenic attitude, which is far stronger among gentiles, and for which Jews bear no responsibility whatsoever which is the problem in your camp, if you will.

    You have your faith, you take care of it. Stop blaming us, or anyone else for its inconstancy or superficiality. It’s for you to figure out what you want from the world, not blame Jews for having figured it out wrongly for you.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Kali
  122. Robjil says:
    @ld

    Everyone who grew up after WWII was brainwashed to give endless streams of “tears” for the plight of Jews in WWII.

    Vicky Nuland ended those tears. She used “neo-notsees” thugs for her coup in Ukraine. That ended the “tears” for me. It woke me up. I know a lot people don’t like mentioning this but she did use them for her coup. It exposes the fact that Top Jews will use anything for their cause. Nuland wasn’t “afraid” of the concept of Nazism being revived in a large European nation in the 21st century. She obviously knew it was bogus to have a fear of “nazism” or similar ideologies.

    Thanks Nuland for waking all of us up. This ZUS Ukraine is a very useful tool for the ZUS empire. The impeachment charade comes from there. The downing of a plane in ZUS Ukraine in 2014 has been used to demonize Russia. Russia taking back Crimea from ZUS Ukraine is another gift from the creation of ZUS Ukraine. It is another great tool to demonize Russia for the ZUS empire.

    Now, this ZUS Ukraine may try to give another gift to the ZUS empire with the recent downing of a 752 Boeing plane in Iran.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  123. @Robjil

    Abbas Milani, a reliable mouthpiece for the zio-liberal world order, on C Span this morning, mentioned that “smart people are leaving Iran. A number of the people who died on the Boeing plane were highly skilled Iranian mathematicians on their way to Canada.”

    That seals it for me: Jews brought that plane down.

    “Kill all the best gentiles.”

    The killing of Iraqi Academics: A War to Erase the Future and Culture of Iraqis
    List of Iraqi academics assassinated in Iraq during the US-led occupation
    Academics assassinated: 324
    Updated: November 7, 2013
    https://www.unz.com/tsaker/soleimani-murder-what-could-happen-next/#comment-3642465

    In the finely honed tradition of Theodore Kaufmann and Henry Morgenthau, Jr.

    “Jews we have contributed mightily to the advancement of humanity.” – Fran Taubman, who supports genocide.
    This time around, Jews in the Nuremberg dock.

    • Agree: Robjil
  124. Skeptikal says:
    @Alternate History

    You call it weaponized pedantry.
    I don’t know why.
    I didn’t attack the person’s ideas, or the person, via a correction.

    I have been a professional editor for decades and I recognize certain common mistakes made by people who write/speak excellent English, also native speakers.
    English has a lot of spelling and pronunciation anomalies.
    Thus, good, also native, English speakers often write “lead” for the verb “led.”
    Another one: “it’s” for possessive “its.”
    Common misuse of apostrophes for plurals.

    I consider pointing out such common errors made by otherwise good English speakers as a mitzvah, also to the UR community.

  125. Skeptikal says:
    @JT

    You do not know a damned thing about my faith or lack of it.

    You do not know a damned thing about my politics. You are bloviating about supposed hate, and blame. These are your own projections.

    For all you know I could be Jewish, or part Jewish.

    Your mentality is a stalker mentality. You qua Jew want something from me qua Gentile.
    A relationship.
    You feel entitled to force Gentiles to “engage” or “sport” with you qua Jew.

    You are like a spurned lover who wants to force a person to have a relationship with you, and when you are told to get lost, you become ever more importunate in your obsession until you are stalking the person you want to have a relationship with, a person who wants to get rid of you.

    As a stalker you pose a danger to those who go about their business innocently, not knowing that this psycho is lurking, trying to capture them to have a relationship with them. Kind of like The Collector.
    You also then start to project all of your obsessions onto the other person in order to blame them, criminalize them, and “psychologize” them for their very healthy desire to be rid of you and left in peace.

    It’s as if, psychologically, with these constant demands, such demanding Jews are wearing a star of David that says: You must engage with me as I desire. you must fulfill my desires.
    You are a creep.

    • Agree: Kali
  126. @renfro

    The Jews are the natives of Israel. They have been living in Israel and all the other Muslim countries since the fall of the temple. Only 30% of Jews are from Europe and Russia.

    • Replies: @Fred Baggins
  127. @Skeptikal

    I detest Israel and my anger has spread to Jews in general. I do not want to hate people but I cannot my disgust and wish to see them punished.”

    You said it!
    My hatred of Israel has spread to all Jews.
    I used not to notice whether someone was Jewish or not. If they were, fine, I didn’t care.
    Now the first thing I note about a person is whether they are Jewish , and if so, in most cases I steer clear. Many Jews are indeed pushy, clueless, and overbearing

    You want to see pushy, clueless, and overbearing?
    Look in the mirror.
    Want to see real supremacy and clueless racism to the point of barbarity. Look in the mirror.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  128. Skeptikal says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Hmm, well, I am not an expert by any means nor even a historian.
    Just musing.
    But, it does seem to me that there is, or can be, a difference between a colonial state and a settler state, or settler region/area.

    Even within a colonial appendage, e.g., the Thirteen Colonies, there were tensions among the colonials as to where the edge of the colony should be. Those who insisted on pushing out the edges of the frontier were, I am thinking, more settlers than colonists. Since they were defying the wishes of the “mother state” and her loyal colonists. For example, there were armed struggles in western Pennsylvania between colonials who were more or less allied with the British Crown and wanted to limit areas of settlement, i.e., limit the boundary of the official colony in line with what the Crown foresaw (for its own [international] reasons of state). But there were plenty who just wanted to go wherever they wanted–basically, rogue elements, but they got their way in the end and settled in territories that the British foresaw as Indian lands in perpetuity. Many of these were Borderers—from the Scottish-English Borderlands. Who were already used to taking the law into their own hands.

    This seems to me more analogous of the Zionism situation and lawless Jewish settlers. (AAMOF fact many American Jews are also used to just taking the local law into their own hands, although they do it more via “lawfare” [I am thinking of groups who take over communities is Upper New York State and basically call the shots on those who already live there, until the latter finally decide to move out and cede the territory, so to speak.])

    It seems to me that Israel is a settler state, not a colony. Certainly all settlements outside the 1967 “borders” are rogue, illegal settlements, a la western Pennsylvania. In this case perhaps the “mother state” could be seen to be the core Israel territory within the 1967 “borders.”

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  129. @SolontoCroesus

    Well you are untitled to your opinion. But if you go into any major city here in the US. You will notice major cultural centers: Museums, hospitals, educational centers named after Jews who gifted the money. It would be pretty dull around here in NY without the contribution of Jewish life and culture.
    The universal contributions of Einstein and Freud and other Jews in the science and arts.

    But then again you think Hitler and National Socialism were major contributors to the well being of mankind. Just misunderstood and cruelly undermined by the Jews.

    Well lets look right here on this page. I am an artist fabricating functional art, my contributions are solid not remarkable.
    You on the other hand spend your time searching for evil to attribute to Jewry, looking thru microscopes was to interpret nefariousness amongst Jews and their behavior. You insist that Jews have harmed you and the German people. You are a racist which in itself is a dangerous contribution to discord and hate amongst people.

    So here we have a prima facia example:
    I am the Jew creating beauty in the world.
    You are the non Jew a loser ( all racist are losers) with a gold star by your name.
    Case closed.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @SolontoCroesus
  130. @Skeptikal

    Palestine was never an independent state it was always a colony first to the Ottomans then to the British, it was a lower province of Syria Palestina.
    There were Jews, Christians, Druze and Muslims living there at a population of about 650,000. at the turn of the 19th century.
    All the land was owned by the Ottomans who sold it to the Jews. The Bedouins never wanted to purchase the land because they did not want to pay taxes, so they squatted. Still a problem in Israel today. You snooze you loose.
    The land was to be partitioned to set up two independent states. The larger one representing the Arab muslim population who in 1948 did not call themselves Palestinians as they considered themselves Arabs among Arabia representing tribes across Arabia as no Palestinian tribe existed. You can check out the surnames which will will give the locations of the tribes these Arabs belonged to like Egypt or Iraq etc.
    The paririon was to be like Pakistan and India. But the Arabs refused and war ensued. All labeling that you present like Colonizers or settlers are off the table after wars are fought. The land grab was Jordan who took over the West bank. They were the Colonizers not the Jews.

    You know this history is not that confusing. If you do not like Jews which is obvious just hate them don’t get bogged down in details you know very little about and toss around Colonize and settler and apartheid and all the rest of the propaganda. The Jews were there, they fought and died in wars. They will stay.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @snag
  131. Skeptikal says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Oh, Fran, just give it a rest.
    I know quite a lot about the history of Palestine.
    And the Zionist movement. Go back and reread your Herzl, Weizman, and Jabotinsky.
    You rest your very weak argument on terminology. It does not wash.

    The Jews were welcome to join Arabs and already as purchasers of property.
    They were not welcome as creators of an ever-expanding apartheid state.

    You distortion of the actual history of the partition is not worth responding to.
    Except to note: it resulted from ongoing terrorism in Palestine of both Arabs and the British.
    If Truman had had other financial backers besides the likes of Meyer Lansky and his pals there would be no Zionist state today.

    I’ll not waste time “dialoguing” further with you.
    See above posts to JT.

  132. @Skeptikal

    All Jews all the time. You give it a rest if only the Jews this if only the Jews that. It is fucking stupid.

  133. @Bardon Kaldian

    Apparently you are wrong about Jackson Pollock.

    From Wikipedia:

    Paul Jackson Pollock was born in Cody, Wyoming, in 1912,[3] the youngest of five sons. His parents, Stella May (née McClure) and LeRoy Pollock, were born and grew up in Tingley, Iowa, and were educated at Tingley High School. Pollock’s mother is interred at Tingley Cemetery, Ringgold County, Iowa. His father had been born with the surname McCoy, but took the surname of his adoptive parents, neighbors who adopted him after his own parents had died within a year of each other. Stella and LeRoy Pollock were Presbyterian; they were of Irish and Scots-Irish descent, respectively.[4]

  134. @Brás Cubas

    Probably. I assumed he was Jewish. Anyway, I never cared for action painting…

  135. @Skeptikal

    From senator Tom Cotton

    Anti-Semitism is the ancient hatred, but today it can appear in new disguises. It festers on Internet message boards and social media. It festers in so-called Washington think tanks like the Quincy Institute, an isolationist blame-America-first money pit for so-called “scholars” who’ve written that American foreign policy could be fixed if only it were rid of the malign influence of Jewish money. It festers even on elite college campuses, which incubate the radical Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement—a movement to wage economic warfare against the Jewish state. These forms of anti-Semitism may be less bloody than street crime in New York, but they channel the same ancient hatred, the same conspiratorial and obsessive focus on the Jewish people.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @snag
    , @Anon
    , @KA
  136. Kali says:
    @JT

    If you don’t have an identity, or don’t wish to have one, on what terms do you want to sport with Jews?

    You desire that a Living Man or Woman reduces their Essential Being to an egoic identity, which you will then further reduce and confine within your prefered definition/description of that “identity” which you also project onto all others you associate with that identity.

    You will then go on to apportion some collective blame to that group for your, what you call “persecution”, and once in a possition to do so, will issue a collective punishment upon those “others/strangers/enemies/non-jews/gentiles/goyim” according to the hate and retrobution your “holy scriptures” require of you.

    Unless and until I reduce my Essential Being to some limited (and limiting) “identity” YOU have no “other” to “sport” with.

    And if you cannot make sport of me how might you gain advantage over me? Hence your insistance that we amorphus non-jew, non-identitarian, self-aware individuals “identify” ourselves to you.

    The reason I don’t disagree with you, is that historically America was a Christian country, and this never posed a problem for Jews.

    Indeed.
    However jewish cultural inclination toward nepatism, exploitation of non-jews, and hidden loyalty to an transnational “nation” certainly does seem to have culminated in your being a real problem for America.

    What I suggest, is that gentiles need to decide who they want to be, i.e. in bringing something to the table.

    Why should one decide who one “wants to be” when one already IS?
    Because you choose to reduce your own Being, and restrict your experience of this incarnation you wish to inflict that existential prison onto everybody else so that the “other” may bring some “identity” to be sacrficed at the alter of your suffering ego.

    Just look at yourselves. What is the chaos of your current consumer driven identities about?

    But why should we identify “as something” for you, when you have already projected onto us what you think we might be?
    And look what happens the very second you project that identity on to us- you then collectively blame us for its failings.

    Christianity is fake. It’s consumerist. Lacks intimacy, sincerity, conviction. It’s no different from left-wing right-wing infotainment TV polarization.

    Then you overlay onto Christianity all kinds of negative characteristics, and further conflate it with modern “consummer culture” as if they were the same thing and the one has not been highjacked by the other.

    Until you are willing discuss your relationship with non-jews more honestly and without issuing demands how can we be expected to come yo the table with you? We would be foolish to do so.

    This I find rather strange and rather telling:

    I am not asking you, what you can give me, in material terms, I am asking you, what you expect of yourself, faced with a people like ourselves.

    I find it telling because your focus is materialistic and you thetefore unconsciously project that same quality onto others.

    I find strange because it’s worded both like a threat and a challange. And, once again, an implicite demand that we “sport” with you on your terms by your rules.

    Surely you can see now that your demands are unreasonable?
    No?
    Then try looking at life more directly, without the prism of your religious and cultural indoctrination. – Peel away everything you are not in order to discover who you are!

    Kali.

  137. Skeptikal says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “These forms of anti-Semitism may be less bloody than street crime in New York, but they channel the same ancient hatred, the same conspiratorial and obsessive focus on the Jewish people.”

    That is BS, doesn’t matter who sez it.

    It is the Jews who focus obsessionally on Gentiles.
    That has been made patently obvious on this thread.
    See posts by JT.
    Contemporary Jews cannot stand to be ignored.
    They need constant attention to demonstrate to get some kind of answer to their existential problem: Why do we/I exist? We/I need a special reason.
    Attention from Gentiles gives them a reason.
    Like PR, it doesn’t matter whether it is positive or negative attention.
    As long as they are not ignored.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @snag
  138. @Skeptikal

    It is fundamentally racist and incoherent to attempt to lump all people into one paradigm it makes no sense on any level.
    You speak of Jews like we are Robots. We are individuals like all peoples, some require attention some do not.
    Some people do not consider themselves Jewish or have a Jewish surname and not a Jewish parent.
    You run into brick walls with that logic, it helps no one and fuels hatred.

  139. @Thulean Friend

    Don’t be an asshole. Equating people who are identified as hyphenated Americans aren’t dual citizens, they are American citizens. Dual citizenship is claiming two national memberships with access to passports from both of their countries. You know this..

  140. @Skeptikal

    You can’t talk like that to Talha. He’s got a gold star over there, already.

    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  141. @Kali

    Good reply, Sis.

    • Thanks: Kali
  142. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I am the Jew creating beauty in the world

    Your creations are ugly..stark, cold, harsh, a mismash of metal…..there is absolutely no craftsmanship or beauty in them. A high school mechanic’s workshop could do better.

    But that is typical….Jews, having no real artistic talent, have always glued together cubes and sticks and called them ‘modern art’…lol

    https://www.ralphpucci.net/furniture/Fran-Taubman/collection

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Skeptikal
  143. @renfro

    That was one of my best post. At least I am not spreading racist lies and propagating hatred.
    Putrid is too nice a word for what you and Solonto do.
    People use my furniture. People accidentally step into your creations and have to wipe their feet.
    Not a pretty picture.
    I earn a living with my work. You just cruise thru not having to be accountable for your lies, behind a fake name renfro.
    What a coward.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Anon
  144. Skeptikal says:
    @Twodees Partain

    “He”?

    I thought Talha was a girl!

    Maybe she is.

    • Replies: @Talha
  145. Skeptikal says:
    @renfro

    Fran Taubman artwork link:

    Oh, my, Shelter Island.

    Very lah-de-dah.

    I’ll give you an A for effort, but the results are pretty ugly.

  146. Anonymous[424] • Disclaimer says:

    >”I quote them not because they are true, as they are not, but to provide an accurate portrayal of Yonathan’s world view. He said that we are dealing with ‘wild people, they have been in America as long as Whites have been here. They are free of slavery for over 150 years. They enjoy the same freedom as whites, segregation ended 50 years ago… Despite that look where are they now, living on welfare, broken families, using crack, mayhem.’ ”

    Er, what’s NOT true about his assessment?

  147. @Fran Taubman

    Most of the Jews who have been induced by the Rothschild Zionist cabal to settle in the land you call Israel since the 1930’s are Ashkenazi Jews, whose ancestors are from Eastern Europe and Asia and they have no blood ties with the ancient Jews of that area.

    • Replies: @snag
  148. snag says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Very ancient 😉 To be precise since the dawn of humanity everywhere they settled and of course those millions upon millions are confused because the Jew can do no wrong.

    Take a good look in the mirror do some soul searching instead pointing a finger and blame others.

    Chapter One: GENERAL CAUSES OF ANTISEMITISM

    “To make the history of antisemitism complete, omitting none of the manifestations of this sentiment and following its divers phases and modifications, it is necessary to go into the history of Israel since its dispersion, or, more properly speaking, since the beginning of its expansion beyond the boundaries of Palestine.

    Wherever the Jews settled after ceasing to be a nation ready to defend its liberty and independence, one observes the development of antisemitism, or rather anti-Judaism; for antisemitism is an ill chosen word, which has its raison d’etre only in our day, when it is sought to broaden this strife between the Jew and the Christians by supplying it with a philosophy and a metaphysical, rather than a material reason. If this hostility, this repugnance had been shown towards the Jews at one time or in one country only, it would be easy to account for the local causes of this sentiment. But this race has been the object of hatred with all the nations amidst whom it ever settled. Inasmuch as the enemies of the Jews belonged to divers races, as they dwelled far apart from one another, were ruled by different laws and governed by opposite principles; as they had not the same customs and differed in spirit from one another, so that they could not possibly judge alike of any subject, it must needs be that the general causes of antisemitism have always resided in Israel itself, and not in those who antagonized it.”

    https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/jewish/lazare-anti.asp

  149. snag says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “Haber was not a Jew” ,…

    Obviously (sic) he was a Martian and that’s why the Fritz Haber Research Center was placed in the Institute of Chemistry at Hebrew University of Jerusalem 😉

  150. Talha says:
    @Skeptikal

    Nah bro, I got a righteous, fist-length beard. I was named after this person.

    Peace.

  151. JT
    You are no doubt another white guy who only erroneously and incorrectly ‘thinks’ you are a ‘semite’
    Fundamentalist religion as well as post 9/11 control and takeover of what us ‘goy’ are supposed to think ONLY lowers the real ‘IQ’ of us all by putting us all in mental straightjackets because white pseudo ‘jews’ who control the financial military industrial complex and the media are afraid of anyone, even their own fellow pseudo jews, who don’t fit into their appropriate hoeland security box.
    If not for the international Jewish elite who fund the dangerous deranged Zionist ‘christians’ who aid the white pseudo jews along with their darker complected Middle East jewish henchmen in the repression and slaughter of chrtistians and moslem Palestinians as well as christians throughout the Middle East who spoke Aramaic,a language that is as much ‘jewish’ as hebrew historically speaking and one that any real jew would want to be kept alive but yet you pseudo jews want dead just like you want palestinian and middle eastern christians dead in your misguided and ignorant interpretation of what you erroneously’think’ is or was ‘judaism’.
    Years ago I wrote ‘the pope’s misconceptions about conception and science history’ that was later published in The UC Berkeley Daily Californian on September 22,1987.It was not published a few days earlier when the pope was in SF( exactly on the bicentenial of the U.S.Constitution that gave us separation of church and state) precisely because the ‘jews’ were protesting this,(probably jewish), pope john paul II because he had pointed out that non jewish poles as well as jews had both died at Aushwitz which of course offended the white pseudo jews who have built yet another big business based upon the myth that they were WWII’S only victims.This is not to mention that financially elite jewish zionists had much more power and influence on and with the nazis and hitler than the average German or even secular German Jews ever did.the Nazis worked hand in hand to persecute and terrorize secular German Jews in order to herd them like cattle to British controlled Palestine for the sick Zionist Jews to turn them into laborers and mass muderers for the new jewish fascist military police state.

    Anyway back to ‘ the pope’s is conceptions about conception and science history’that was almost not published because of a jewish protest.I was the for soe reason the only person in the world to connect the fact that the catholic church had never had to take responsibility for having taught Aristotle’s,etal.’s ‘four elements’ -‘ earth,air,water and fire’ with the fact that the pope and everyone on the planet (including your rabbis),are eating and excreting,approximately a pound and a half of phosphates per earth orbit and we are running out of phosphate to mine and would deplete our Florida phosphates long before we run out of earth orbits.Trump and all those stupid white ‘jews’ don’t even realise they are living in and around a radioactive open pit mine that is a ticking or earth orbit tie bomb.

    I only recently learned that the jewish kabbalah cultists( who the aging bimbo Madonna adores) also plagiarized Aritstotle’s four or five elements as well.but my biggest surprise was
    in learning that jewish synagogues in palestine dating to the time of Greek christian influence there have been found to have mosaics not only with astrologic zodiacs which i guess date back to Babylon if not Sumeria but they also incorporate the four elements into the zodiac just
    like astrologers do to this day ! In western Europe the four or five elements of Aristotle were unknown until the 12th century when Europeans got Aristotles forgotten and lost,(to them),writing
    of Aristotle from the Arabs and translated them from Greek to Latin .

    As for the only interview with another sick white jew i would like to see from Gilad it is the one he will never do and that is the one from his sick and twisted relative Menachem Atzmon who ‘guarded’ Logan Airport on 9/11.Some of us would like to know when Bibi Netanyahu first knew
    that his Shin Beit agents and Menahem Atzmon and Ezra Harel were guarding Logan and what was ‘goijng down’ so to speak.And just how did Menachem Atzmon a convicted money launderer for
    Bibi and his Likud Party in Isra-hell qualify to incorporate ICTS International in ‘Catholic Zionist’ Joe Biden’s state of Delaware? In fact does the U.S.SEC normally allow convicted money launderers to open and operate public stock companies in the U.S. OR IS THIS A PRIVILEDGE ONLY RESERVED FOR ISRAELI GOVERNENT AGENTS ?

  152. snag says:
    @Fred Baggins

    According to Thomas L. Thomson one of the most renowned bible scholars the Hebrews under Seleucid rule traded with them with mutual benefits mingled and intermarried making babies and converting to Hellenism or ‘sprinkle’ their Judaism with Hellenism, creating so called Hellenistic Judaism that combined Hebrew religious tradition with elements of Greek culture. It got to the point that the Maccabees had to implement forced circumcision in overrun territories to reclaim their ‘jews’ that deserted to Hellenism. Needles to mention the Greeks created market for their products (export) in Mediterranean Basin making them much better off financially and unhampered personally than under Judaism.

    During the Muslim expansion they converted to Islam to avoid taxes to feed their kids and survive, some of them during Crusaders conquest to Christianity. They’re the Palestinians today, those pale faced invaders they’re nothing but squatters on Levant’s soil.. 

    Read Thomas L. Thomson’s “The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology” on this and related subjects. Great an eye opening book. 

  153. Kali says:
    @JT

    Response to you comment #123:

    I see, the chosen of the chosen, Kali. Possessor of ultimate truth, knowledge, the “Living Woman,”

    I don’t claim to “possess ultimate truth” JT, but mearly to recognise it in those moments when it possesses me.

    Indeed, that I am a Living Woman is the only claim I make about myself.

    And look at the effect that has on you: you have nothing to take hold of with which to “sport” with me so you resort to sarcasm and projecting my assertions onto others (i.e. Skeptikal).

    The experience of essential truth/essential being is available to everyone, including those who follow Christian, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist, etc, religions, though not including the practicioners of judaism which is inherrantly, from its very beginning, exclussive, destructive, exploitative. And which wholy externalises God and has caused untold generations of others to do the same. The same is true of satanism.

    You (sarcastically) say you seek to be enlightened, that you want more insight. Then look inside.

    ———————-
    In your comment #124, not for the first time in this conversation, you seem to atribute things that I have expressed here to Skeptikal and go on to demand that he (sge?) answer for my assertions.

    Then you wonder why he’s offended by you.

    Of course you don’t mean offence, but your constant, unconscious projections which you commit, it would seem, in order to amass all of those who hold your chosen “identity” in contempt into one harmogenous blob of incoherance is, it can be argued, offensuve because it is fundamentally dishonest.

    You then accuse him of the schizophrenia which YOU projected onto him when conflating my pissition with his, whilst also demanding that he (we) offer you something, and insisting that he (we) are asking something of you (jews).

    It is dishonest of you to conflate my possition with that of Skeptikal when we are obviously taking different possitions.

    Your chosen religion teaches you how to negotiate and obscure what it tells you are the “commandments” of “god” – the times and circumstances during which those “comandments” do not apply.
    This is the basis of law as it is practiced in the west (the founders of the “Christian” religion having accepted your Torah as “the recieved word of god for sime undisclosed reason). This is why, culturally speaking, those of jewish descent tend to make good lawyers – because judaism teaches one how to bend and re-interpret “the facts” and “the law” to suit a particular agenda.

    Again I suggest that until you know the Truth of your own Being you will have a superficial relationship with truth generally, as is evident in this discussion.

    Your pretences of reasonableness are just that – pretences. You say (I paraphrase)” lets all get along” whilst continuing to demand the right to “sport” with the rest of us.
    Skeptikal has made it very clear that he wants nothing to do with you, yet you continue to demand that he “offer” you something in order that you may “sport” with him.

    He’s right when he says you’re full of shit.

    ————

    In response to Fran at comment #106(?)

    Fran, your willful misinterpretation of my remarks in our last exchange (on Gilad’s previous article to this) leave me in no doubt whatsoever that you are a troll. Please try to refrain from putting words into my mouth.
    If you really want people to know what I think, then actually quote me, in context, or be quiet.

    Kali.

  154. @jbwilson24

    “Sephardic Jews were in the New World at its founding”

    There’s also evidence that the Sephards were in what is now Georgia in the 16th century (maybe earlier), mining gold at the site of what was later named Dahlonega where, eventually, a US Mint was established. Sephards came to North America as Spaniards and were here long before there was an English presence in the south.

  155. @utu

    Really?

    Are homosexuals responsible for Iraq?

    Did they elect Bush 20 years ago?

    Culturally, the pornography that is most widespread is heterosexual.

    What are homosexuals doing? Keeping the population down?

  156. @snag

    Judeo-Christian is about as valid as Satano-Christian. It’s an invented term that I never heard until Reagan’ cabinet started to fill up with neocons. Maybe it’s a Judeo invention.

    • Replies: @snag
  157. @Brás Cubas

    Hmmmmm….what does wikipedia say about Jackson’s framing of painters’ dropcloths and presenting them as “art”? OK, I know that’s a non-sequitor.

  158. joe2.5 says:
    @Justsaying

    That the Zionists are the brain, or a lare part of the brain of the empire is obvious. If you believe, however, that the Owners live anywhere close to Palestine, I have a nice bridge you may want to buy: “the real empire and global hegemony is made in and controlled from” the seats of Zionist US power. Politicians residing in the Zionist entity, at risk of getting a rocket on their head, are just menials.

  159. @Fran Taubman

    sorry for the delayed response, Fran Taubman the creator of beauty.
    I just came from spending a few days with children and grandchildren — another grandchild is expected in 2 weeks.
    Talk about beauty — living beauty, the mother to be.

    How many grandchildren have you created, Fran?

    PS can’t resist this totally silly story: at a family Christmas + birthday celebration, nephew — let’s call him Bob — heard his 3-year old (Jimmy) make a small cat noise. Bob commented, “That’s a new one.”

    His brother-in-law — call him Tom, gleam in eye, beamed in on the 3-year old, mimicked the sound, which Jimmy echoed. Tom ramped it up, and Jimmy out-did him. Pretty soon the room was rocking with Jimmy mewing like a cat, Tom rolling on the floor laughing, and papa Bob just about to ready to clobber his brother-in-law.

    What a stupid family scene.
    Can’t hold a candle to the creativity of twisted metal.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  160. @SolontoCroesus

    I have 5 grand nieces and nephews. And two nieces.
    Nice try to deflect attention from your hate spewing racism.
    We are all blessed with what we have. Funny you feel the need to ask me about children. Why? Do you think that I am a less then you because I do not have my own children. Is that the National Socialist agenda for a pure race?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  161. snag says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Please, spare us this ”land without people and people without land” hasbara crap.

    Late Ottoman period

    According to Alexander Scholch, one of the most renovned scholars on this subject, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.

    In the late nineteenth century, prior to the rise of Zionism, Jews are thought to have comprised between 2% to 5% of the population of Palestine, although the precise population is not known.

  162. @Fran Taubman

    Why? Do you think that I am a less then you because I do not have my own children.

    Nah.

    I think you are less than me because I have a gold star.

    btw, where’e that highly-accomplished 1972-vintage lawyer who had to take a leave of absence to work on his briefs?

    • Replies: @Incitatus
    , @Fran Taubman
  163. snag says:
    @Skeptikal

    There’re over 70 million of ethnic Germans in US, 56 million of ethnic Irish, 17 million ethnic Italians, 12 million ethnic Poles, you don’t even know that they exist except once a year during October Festivities or St. Patrick, Columbus and Pulaski days, for the rest of the year they blend in and are an Americans and contribute instead of schnorring … 

    There’re other ethnic and religious minorities in US they all mingle, follow their heart, intermarry and and no one is making a fuss about it except the Jews, day in day out, me, me, poor me … Tired of it. 

  164. snag says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Exactly – Without those evangelical ignorants that van’t wait for A

  165. snag says:

    Exactly – Without those ignorant evangelicals that can’t wait for Armageddon to save the chosenites and some zionist moles like Hagee and his herd the Jews would never have so much power and an influence in foreign affairs.

    What do we get in return? Nothing but hate and disdain from them and those who hate them.

    https://forward.com/news/israel/216074/what-do-israelis-think-about-americans-start-with/

    • Replies: @Talha
  166. I don’t know if anyone here brought this up but the last name Stern begs the question as to whether or not Yonatan Stern is related to Avraham Ya’ir Stern of the infamous Irgun or Stern Gang who bombed the King David Hotel.If I remember correctly,Rham Emanuel’s father was part of that terrorist gang.
    I have wondered whether or not some of those Israeli military types now making a good living or killing from their ‘anti-terrorism’ classes for tourists often on occupied Palestinian lands are really
    fronts for training American and other Zionist Jews in order to export terrorism and those trained in it back to the U.S. and other countries around the world where those taking the training come from.Now it looks like Yonatan Stern is doing precisely that type of training under Homeland Security’s and Donald Trump’s,et.al.’s noses and probably with their blessings right in the open in the the formerly good old USA…….

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-opens-secret-files-about-jewish-terrorists-in-1940s/

    UK opens secret files on 1940s ‘Jewish terrorists’ in Palestine …
    https://www.timesofisrael.com › …
    Sep 29, 2016 – The southern wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem following the … The assailants were militant Jews from the Stern Gang, determined to …

    The operational challenge facing British security officials in 1946 was in some ways similar to the ones faced today as Europe’s intelligence agencies try to keep Islamic extremists from entering Europe to launch attacks against civilians.

    The files contain an official “top secret” request for “special attention security check of all Jews travelling to the UK” because of the security threat posed by the Stern Gang.

    The files also reveal how closely British secret services tracked relations between militant groups like the Stern Gang and Irgun amid fears the rival groups would start to cooperate on joint attacks.

    A secret note written on April 14, 1947, warns that a reliable source had told British agents about an agreement between the Stern Gang and the Irgun group to coordinate policy and plans.

    “The main point is that terrorist activities are not to be confined only to Palestine — but will take place also in the UK, France and Italy,” the note says, adding that “certain Jewish terrorists” have already arrived in the port city of Alexandria, Egypt, and have purchased a 200-ton ship to be used to transport weapons.

    The plots described were many and varied, including a failed plan by militants to blow up the British destroyer Chevron off the coast of Haifa. The files indicate that plotters left a bag of primed explosives and detonators on board and were later arrested on land with concealed explosives.

    The files also detail successful kidnappings carried out by the gangs.

    The sporadic but deadly attacks spawned extensive British discussions about whether Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin could travel safely to Cairo without undue risk of assassination.

    Many attacks were relatively minor, involving small arms fire, grenades, improvised explosives and land mines, but the campaign clearly made it hard for the British to conduct normal business without adding layers of protection. Railways, bridges, government facilities and officers clubs were all targeted.

    The state of Israel was proclaimed in 1948; some of the militants went on to become influential figures, including future Israeli prime ministers Menachem Begin, who would sign the landmark Camp David peace accords in 1978, and Yitzhak Shamir…………

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  167. Talha says:
    @snag

    Thanks for the link.

    What do we get in return?

    Billions and billions of dollars later…

    America: Friend!!!

    Israel: Hey, Dork! I mean…Chump! I mean…Friend!

    Peace.

  168. Ron Unz says:
    @Fran Taubman

    That was one of my best post. At least I am not spreading racist lies and propagating hatred.

    One of the rather ironical and amusing aspects of American society is the remarkable zeal with which Jews, including fanatical or traditionally-religious Jews, denounce “racism.”

    Anyone who’s even slightly investigated the subject knows perfectly well that traditional Judaism is among the one of the world’s most utterly fanatical doctrines of extreme ethnocentricity, i.e. “racism.” As I joked in an article a year or two ago, Nazism might be best described as “Judaism for wimps.”

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-oddities-of-the-jewish-religion/

    Given this thousand year cultural history, we really shouldn’t be too surprised that several of the most central figures behind the 19th century creation of the racialist ideologies of 19th century Europe were Jewish, including one of the top early Zionist leaders.

    The whole situation is a little like the leaders of the major mafia families endlessly going on TV to denounce “organized crime”…

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  169. @Dutch Boy

    Read the Derb’s review of C of C

  170. @Ron Unz

    Anyone who’s even slightly investigated the subject knows perfectly well that traditional Judaism is among the one of the world’s most utterly fanatical doctrines of extreme ethnocentricity, i.e. “racism.” As I joked in an article a year or two ago, Nazism might be best described as “Judaism for wimps”

    ethnocentricity, i.e. “racism.”

    Ethnocentricity is not racism. How can you say that? Ludicrous really: Some examples:
    – Japanese ethnocentricity towards other Asians, especially the Koreans? Racist?
    -The Indian caste system.
    -Exotic mystical rituals as practiced by Tibetan monks create racial tensions with the Chinese.
    – Shia Islams vs Sunis Islam for domination.

    Jewish ethnocentricity is not like a drug cartel in Mexico. Judaism’s oddities ( your skepticism is childish when trying to explain tribal customs) is so so simple. The history of Judaism is based on an experience a rendezvous with a divine being (perhaps it was an extraterrestrial) . Like Ezekiel’s Merkabah Wheel. Jews (some not all) try to duplicate that rendezvous, reaching out with chants, charms and rituals to unlock and connect with the power of the divine.

    An example:

    The simple statement HaShem Hu HaElohim is not simple at all; and it is not mentioned in relationship to other religions or their gods. This statement is indeed the foundation of Torah, but so very few actually understand its meaning. Even fewer know how to transform a spoken statement into a vibrant force that can actually influence and change physical matter at its most fundamental levels.
    Speech is sound. Sounds can vibrate matter at the molecular level. Thoughts are things; they are actual waves of energy. When thoughts can be focused, similar to the focusing of light, then concentrated thought can become like a laser beam with the power to cut and penetrate almost everything. When concentrated thought is channeled through the proper vibrations of sound, powerful results are achieved, results that have very material, physical manifestations.

    That was written a long time ago and was revolutionary at the time. Anyone is welcome to try it and can join it. How is this racist?

    Today
    I live on a remote Island in the winter. Both my cars broke down the same day, a bit of a freak occurrence. Shelter Island goys rescued me in the cold helped me get around and fixed both vehicles on the same day. When I was stranded and no one from AAA would come. I got a call from a neighbor on SI who owns a tow truck saying “Fran we are coming to get you” I am really really grateful that my neighbors are not like the people on UR. I doubt as I was riding around with friends if I had asked if they thought Judaism was worse then Nazism they would agree with your comparison. Just stupid, lacking morality and common sense. I see all the bad and racist stuff in reverse from you. No goodness can exist or thrive around your thoughts, ideas and writings, just impossible. Just all dark.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Kali
    , @geokat62
  171. @Tusk

    Forgetting the fact that the Jews were the guests in the Western house who brought the locusts, and now you complain that the house, not even yours, is full of locusts and ask the owner what he’s going to do about it to solve your issues? Bizarre, incoherent and delusional beyond all measure.

    Thank you for the insightful and delightful beat-down. Well said!

    • Thanks: Tusk
  172. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Shia Islams vs Sunis Islam for domination.

    I would suggest staying in your lane on this one Fran. This has zero to do with ethnicity. The Persians were Sunni (mostly of the Shafi’i school) for the majority of their history as a Muslim people. Furthermore, Turks and Azerbaijanis are both Turkic people and their languages are related and fairly mutually intelligible. Turkey is mostly Sunni and Azerbaijan is overwhelmingly Shiah, but they get along swell:
    “Sky is the limit for Turkey-Azerbaijan relations,” Khazar Ibrahim said, recalling that relations between the two countries were based the principle of “one nation, two state” coined by former Azerbaijani President Haydar Aliyev.
    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/sky-is-limit-for-turkey-azerbaijan-relations-envoy/1544027

    Peace.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
  173. @Talha

    Sir. There is a deeper subtext that I learned in an Ibadi country. Oman.

    Persians once ruled Arabia. I’ve been 1000 year old Parsi forts from the straits of Hormuz to the jungles of Dhofar (Yemen) and there is some underlying resentment between Persia as an Empire and Arabs.

    Oman is Ibadi, as I said, but resentment to Farsi exists. The Persian Empire was not much loved in Arab peninsula.

    • Replies: @Talha
  174. @ParadoxRocks

    That is obviously true. If there are divisions between left and right among jews, those differences don’t impede the main goal of conquest which has been so successful in the US. The divisions appear to be like the enmity between WWF heroes and villains: a stage production meant to entertain those who are uncritical of the fact that the entire show is phony.

  175. Kali says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Shelter Island goys rescued me

    That is a very interesting choice of words Fran. – To describe those good (Christian?) people who rescued you as “goys” in your attempt to argue that judaism is not inherrantly racist.

    Is it that you are claiming not to be racist because you accepted help from “goyim”?

    You attempts at invertion of truth and deflection of negative attention, away from, in this case, the inherrantly racist nature of Judaism, result in you revealing your own inherrited racism. Sweet irony, ay Fran?

    You, who on an almost daily basis call those of us who recognise the uglier and more destructive and dangerous (to us “goys”) qualities of Judaism and jewish culture, racists and haters, use “goy” to describe and catergorise non-jews as “animals in human form”.

    Kali.

  176. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I am really really grateful that my neighbors are not like the people on UR…

    I’m sure a lot of people on UR would have rescued you, Fran, despite your opinions of them.

    Ethnocentricity is not racism.

    It is, Fran, when Jewish Supremacist Organizations (JSOs) that represent one ethnicity (Diaspora Jews) deem it in their strategic interest to destroy the homelands of another ethnicity (European and European-derived peoples) by pushing for non-restrictionist immigration legislation and the Big Lie #1, Diversity Is Our Greatest Strength!*

    You can’t get around this simple fact: our homelands are being destroyed thanks predominantly to the efforts of JSOs.

    *This phrase was coined by the ADL, that was founded to get Leo Frank off the hook who murdered 13 year old Mary Phagan.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Fran Taubman
  177. geokat62 says:
    @geokat62

    Speaking of the destruction of Western homelands, I think the look on this Irish? kid’s face does a good job illustrating the magnitude of the disaster that was perpetrated against us:

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @anon
  178. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Oman is Ibadi, as I said, but resentment to Farsi exists. The Persian Empire was not much loved in Arab peninsula.

    Precisely. As you mentioned regarding the fact that Omanis, who are Ibadi, may have issues with Persians who are Shiah, has more to do with politics of regional influence rather than simply Sunni/Shiah. I doubt they would be fine with Iran taking over Oman even if it was Sunni.

    As another example of how the Sunni/Shiah divide cannot simply be chalked up to ethnic rivalry; Sunni Arabs were very fond of Sunni Persian scholars. Look up the man mostly commonly known as “Imam al-Haramain [the Imam of the Two Holy Cities]” and tell me if that honorific title refers to an Arab or a Persian.

    Here is one of the best known scholars of Yemen (same place where you saw the Persian forts) stating, to a Bonsian scholar, that the best book, by far, on Sufism was written by Imam Ghazali (ra) – a Persian…under the MORE tag.

    Peace.

    [MORE]

  179. Talha says:
    @geokat62

    I think that’s from South Africa. I’ve seen school uniforms from South Africa like that.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  180. geokat62 says:
    @Talha

    I think that’s from South Africa.

    Thanks.

    While today it’s South Africa, few would doubt that in a decade or two this could easily be a picture taken from an Irish grade school.

    • Replies: @Talha
  181. Talha says:
    @geokat62

    Sure, if they keep their doors open to the world, don’t have kids and abort the ones that they might have.

    Peace.

  182. @Talha

    I agree with you. Ron is saying ethnocentricity is equivalent to racism. If the ethnocentric Native Americans use tepees as their homes does that equate to being racist?
    By his definition certain ethnocentric rituals and practices of Shias are racist in that they exclude Sunnis. The direct linkage of prominent prophets as related to importance in rituals, prayers and holidays. Rons definition has nothing to do with a tribes ability to get along. Rituals being exclusionary are racist.

    According to Ron deviation from a secular format: the practice of rituals and costumes, head dress, the use of charms during prayer etc; to be set apart as group from othesr by these pracitces is ethnocentric and therefore racist.

    Ron is pretty much a sissy when it comes to rituals, costumes, and charms. He talks about the oddities of Judaism. I think the secular world is far more odd then Judaism. Like Judaism is equivalent to the head hunters in Paau New Guinea.

    • Replies: @Talha
  183. Miggle says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Very well put, Bardon Kaldian. The fiction that the Jews are a race is fundamental to Judaism, was fundamental to Nazism with its Nuremberg law, but it is a fiction.

    It is fundamental to Judaism because Jew itself means member of the tribe of Judah son of Jacob alias Israel grandson of Abraham.

    But it is totally bogus. Many have referred to the Khazars but even when they had their mass conversion, even hundreds of years earlier than that, almost all the Jews of the world were the descendants of proselytes, converts to Judaism. There are records of ancient Romans, even the Hebrew Sibyl of the Maccabbean era, who writes that the Jews fill every continent. There are the worlds of Jesus in one of His several “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!” announcements (Matthew’s Gospel) saying that any one of the rabbis will travel across the world, “encompass sea and land” to make a single proselyte. There are mentions of the “golden age” of Judaism when the rates of conversion were huge.

    It all came about as a result of the massive conquests of Alexander the Great and the ensuing Hellenistic Era when the whole known world spoke Greek, even the Romans spoke of wrote in Greek, even the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, a Roman emperor who was persecuting the Christians after around AD 150 were written by him in Greek. Several large empires with safe travel and one lingua franca. It was too cosmopolitan for ancient tribal religions to survive. There was mass conversion.

  184. @geokat62

    Geo we have been over this like a million times. There is no indigenous JSO. Supremacy is not apart of Judaism. There may be Jews and non Jews behind Hart-Hellers. It was not a Jewish conspiracy to populate the US with non Europeans as a strategic way to destroy homelands including the US. It is a conspiracy you buy into but it is not true. The same with blaming communism on the Jews. There were Jews involved but it was not a part of a Jewish conspiracy.

    I grew up in the 1950’s and 60’s. My mothers extended family were survivors living in deportation camps. To immigrate to the US my parents had to sign documents that they would sponsor them for two years and prove that there was income support them. They came here and took jobs as cleaning people and shop keepers. I can tell you personally that there was no supremacy attitude amongst Jews after the war. They felt pretty low and humiliated and were just glad to be here.
    We do not have to discuss this any more. We can agree to disagree.
    There maybe individual Jews involved but it is not a collective idea.

    It is, Fran, when Jewish Supremacist Organizations (JSOs) that represent one ethnicity (Diaspora Jews) deem it in their strategic interest to destroy the homelands of another ethnicity (European and European-derived peoples) by pushing for non-restrictionist immigration legislation and the Big Lie #1, Diversity Is Our Greatest Strength!*

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @geokat62
    , @geokat62
  185. Anon[373] • Disclaimer says:

    This week Yonatan and I returned to the same kosher pizzeria in Monticello where we met before. Yonatan is very upset with Jewish Leftists. He believes that they are set to destroy the Jews, America and the whole world.

    Mainstream Orthodox Judaism believes in the destruction of the United Sates as a necessary condition preceding their Messianic period.

    https://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/1391003/jewish/Daily-Zohar-Vaeira-Day-5.htm

    Nations will gather there, and [Rome] will fall into their hands, until all the children of Edom will gather against it [that nation] from all the corners of the world. Then G‑d will be roused against them. This is the meaning of: “For G‑d has a sacrifice in Botzrah”. (Isaiah 34:6) And afterwards, it is written: “That it might take hold of the ends of the earth…” (Job 38:13) He will destroy the descendants of Ishmael from the land, and break all the powers of [all the nations’ guardian angels] Above. There will not remain any power of any people on earth, except the power of Israel alone. This is the meaning of “G‑d is your shade upon your right hand”.

    BeRahamim LeHayyim: One cannot ignore the facts. To do so entreats disaster. Read this in terms of the daily news, and substitute Arab nations for Ishmael, and the West and US for Edom.

    “My take on the current impeachment circus is that it is a typical display of subversive leftist Jewish attempts to undermine America from within.”

    See above. Subverting the US, as a stated to be manifestation of the Jewish arch-enemy Edom and Rome, is doctrinaly necessary for the entire point of the Jewish religion to come about: The Messianic Period.

    [In fact] real Judaism of the Torah promotes things which Liberal Jews would consider brutality: such as slavery, polygamy, rape (at a time of a war), animal sacrifice, total prohibition on homosexuality etc.”

    Judaism is primarily a slaver’s religion. This Jew is being honest on this count. Their primary aim is to rid the world of “impurity”, which is most non-Jews, and to enslave the rest. Per Ovadia Yosef and the Zohar, to start.

    “Slavery is allowed in Judaism subject to rules of course.” I guess the take home message is that some Jews may oppose slavery however, the opposition to slavery is not a ‘Jewish value.’ They may even oppose slavery despite so-called ‘Jewish values.’

    Jews opposing what is central to Judaism, which will always occur within the diaspora and not in Orthodox Israel, is most often a means of implementing a dual master-slave morality for their desired slaves and Jews.

    Jewish legal and social privilege enacts a desire for the same in non-Jews, and Jews cannot have that.

    What is politically effective for Jews must be denied to everyone else in order to legally establish a difference in law and privilege for Jews and Gentiles.

    The Jewish political power lies in the difference between the two legal systems. The formal, dual legal system (one for slave masters and one for slaves) is formally represented by the Jewish Noachide system. Today, widespread and quasi-informal dual morality and law exists across the values of: ethnonationalism, racism, national socialism, segregation, cultural narratives, allowable cultural practices, theology, violence, public relations, and virtually any other implement of group self protection and advocacy.

    [MORE]

    Like President Trump, Yonatan has harsh words on the Jewishness of the Jewish Left. “In reality these are assimilated, pork-eating, sabbath-desecrating fake Jews affiliated with the radical left wing Reform movement who ordain women as rabbis and conduct homosexual ‘marriages’ under a Chuppa.

    And yet Orthodox Jews will still work to protect liberal Jews against opposition by moral peoples. Meaning that none of the exclusions this Jew states are real, none of the divisions are very meaningful, and instead all Jews prioritize racial group membership over ostensible theological and values differences.

    These Hellenist (Greek) frauds represent everything that is evil and ugly about American Judaism and they perpetuate the myth of the hook-nosed subversive Jew being behind every insidious attempt to undermine their host countries.”

    The Tanakh’s central message is the undermining of host countries. The central nature of all Judaism, working toward the Jewish Messianic Period, is to undermine the host nations of Jews.

    This is exactly why Jews still live in large, unassimilated groups throughout the World despite having again retained “Zion”.

    The goal is to dissolve all other nations while ever-strengthening ethnonationalist Israel to prepare for the Messianic Period, wherein the World is said to be ruled from Israel.

    Its the process of creating a centrally controlled master-slave system in which all other peoples have slave level culture (ie: modern Black culture) and need to look to Jews for the basic ethics of civilization.

    They will pay Jews a “tax” for this service, allowing Jews to fulfill the promises of their “Sabbath” Messianic Age, rule from their Sanhedrin in Israel, and otherwise not work. According to Jews.

    It is clear that in Yonatan’s universe, the Left Jew is by far the most dangerous element in Western society in general and in the USA in particular

    Unless Yonatan can credibly explain how nations will not be undermined or Jew controlled in the Jewish messianic period, if they will exist at all, then there is no difference between the goals of “Right” and “Left” wing Jews. Both desire a deracinated, culturally degenerate slave world ruled by non-working “master” Jews from Israel. I hold that there is a difference of no difference between ostensible Left and Right Wing Jews, when ultimate goals are accounted for.

    If there was a difference in nature and goals between Left and Right Wing Jews, Right Wing Jews would have long ago come out in favor of the idea of National Socialist Germany and would have advocated for the unsentimental neutralization of Left Wing Jews when possible. In short, they would have long ago advocated for gentile cultural and political empowerment in their host nations, to fight degenerate social and political forces. This would be fulfilling the Jewish role of being a “light unto the nations”. None of this has ever occurred. Their actual role is to subvert their host nations to the point that the Jews are the only culturally functional nation left in the West. Which is the condition needed to facilitate widespread de facto slavery.

    The fear of Hellenist (Greek) Jews is as old as Judaism. There is nothing more frightening for rabbinical Jews than the thought that some of their brethren endorse the ethics of Goyim, subscribe to universalism, peace, harmony and equality

    What a joke. The Jew wants to simultaneously enforce degeneracy and then take credit for its opposition while blaming the vivtim for its spread. There is nothing more Jewish. One of their primary tools is to blame others for their actions, which is a tool revealed in their holiest ritual of the scapegoat sacrifice on Yom Kippur.

    The entirety of World Jewry continues to fight to forcefully implement these values for non-Jews , was the primary force in initially moving them, and mobilized the Western lower class infantries to save them from gentile rejection in WWII. See the positions of ALL politically significant Jewish groups and their media. See what side all of Judaism took in WWII.

    “Slavery is one of our values” Judaism seeks the same blame shifting strategy when it blames non-Jewish Whites for the colonial slave trade and takes no responsibility in spite of the hard evidence to the contrary. Jews brought the negroes here and then worked to free them among us. Just as Hitler blamed them for doing in the Rhine.

    Zionism was born to stop assimilation; it promised to take the Diaspora Jews away to Palestine and to make them people like all other people

    And yet vast numbers of supposedly Zionist, Orthodox Jews still live in giant packs outside of Israel. Funny that.

    I asked Yonatan why Jews seem to be prone to subversive and revolutionary politics. For Yonatan, “there is a subversive and evil element within Judaism even before the Torah was given. There are numerous examples of the above in the Torah of Jews who are living in our midst and subverting our cause.” According to Yonatan Saul Alinsky is a perfect exemplar of such a revolutionary destructive Jew, as is Marx.

    There is no difference in affect on non-Jewish societies, between Yonatan and Saul Alinsky, unless and until Judaism can accurately and fully (meaning no code or vagueness) describe the aims and conditions of the Jewish Messianic Period for non-Jews.

    What will need to be addressed. Non-jewish:

    Legal integrity
    National integrity
    Racial integrity
    Financial independence from Jewish tax
    Genocide results in the context of all “impurity” being cleansed from the world, which in the Zohar is described as most non-Jews.
    Anything else that is pertinent for these themes. I would expect Jewish initiative to clarify anything relevant that is not listed but which will eventually come to the forefront: given that the Messianic Period is their plan.

    the Jews are the biggest bankers, we control the Fed, we control Hollywood, all those lawyers, the best attorneys, the best accountants, all the biggest doctors, we have wealth, we have power, yet this proportionate to our size we are only 2%of the population.

    The bolded realms of control would not be controlled by Jews without the conspiracy that Jews have long been accused of. Yonatan is essentially validating the perception and morality of Nazi Germany (though, he also prior did this with the master-slave ethnics admission).

    Jews are not the innocent group they claim to be.

    It follows that so called antisemitism is not hate; but instead a rational and moral self defense against a hostile, oppressive minority.

    I pointed to Yonatan that rabbinical communities have used some barbarian expansionist tactics to cleanse Blacks and others from areas they want to expand into such as Kiryas Joel, Crown Heights, New Jersey City etc. Yonatan admitted that this is true. The Jewish orthodox communities do indeed use some “unethical means” to accomplish their goal but, he said, they do not behave that way exclusively to Blacks but use such means against Whites as well. Yonatan seems to be saying that Orthodox Jews do not discriminate against Black people in particular, they are, in general, dismissive of others.

    Validating the long-held view that Jews and other peoples should not be forced to share a nation. The idea that Jews and non-Jews are co-nationals in any meaningful sense is fraudulent on its face. Jewish presence in any nation is hostile and eventually oppressive of other inhabitants of that nation. These conditions are counter to the concept of the nation.

    Yonatan believes that “Trump is the best friend the Jews have ever had and he has devoted so much effort to standing up for us and defending us…

    And yet Trump was elected by nationalist non-Jews and voted against by Jews at a higher rate than any other religious group.

    Trump’s support for Jews is indicative of the terminal corruption of our system. Its democratic mechanism has never been so clearly ineffective.

    When I asked Yonatan whether we should expect an open battle between the so-called ‘real Jews’ and the ‘Leftist’ ones any time soon he said he thought so.

    No one should hold their breath, even ignoring the theological confluence between “Left” and “Right” wing Jews. Orthodox Jews have had decades to stop this, and in the best of times they’ve passively watched. When really needed, however, they rose to use their supposed victimhood to support Leftist causes in the diaspora. Yonatan’s speech is dishonest blather, meant to buy marginal time and support for Jews, and nothing more.

    we are “digging in preparing for a boogaloo,” the coming all out civil war between American patriots who adhere to ‘Judeo-Christian values’

    He knows that there is no such animal as “Judeo-Christian” values. The two religions are opposite in concept. One serves only the soul and the other serves only this world. Which one is which can be determined by identifying which believes in an afterlife and which has its concept of “heaven” rooted in future world rule.

    and the so called multi cultural left. In placing this future conflict within the context of the American southern/northern division Yonatan sees himself as a contemporary Confederate platoon.

    False. Yonatan believes int he Jewish Messianic Age, like all Orthodox Jews. That Age requires the destruction of the United States as a nation. His “multi-cultural conflict” is almost entirely a condition created by his people.

  186. The word “goy” is a euphemistic term for non Jew mostly on UR. I was parroting that. Commentators all the time refer to them and their compatriots as the goys, the Shabbos goys.
    I meant nothing racist nor have I ever posted racist comments about anyone or religion as you have.

    You keep ascribing characters and genetics to Jewry like racism, and that Ashkenazi Jews are not real Jews they are Kazhars and how Ashkenazis are destroying Europe and the world.

    You go on about how you have discovered the truth as a living women. You ask about how Jews are connected to Israel archeologically. I show you all the research I could find. Really good and interesting stuff. You write

    The experience of essential truth/essential being is available to everyone, including those who follow Christian, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist, etc, religions, though not including the practitioners of judaism which is inherently, from its very beginning, exclusive, destructive, exploitative. And which wholy externalises God and has caused untold generations of others to do the same. The same is true of satanism.

    I am a Jew. I am a proud Jew. I practice Judaism. I find Judaism to be moral and correct in promoting goodness and it helps me to live a moral and good life. Judaism is not exclusive, destructive or exploitive. The rest of your comment is not even readable. What language are you writing in?
    And which wholy externalises God and has caused untold generations of others to do the same. The same is true of satanism. I hope you realize this sentence makes no sense in my language which is English.
    You are entitled to your opinion but you ignorance about the basic history of Judaism is insufferable. Please stop calling me names, and just move on to another commenter.

    I have tried to show you intelligent answers but you are just a sheer cliff of stupidity.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Kali
  187. Anon[303] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Geo we have been over this like a million times. There is no indigenous JSO. Supremacy is not apart of Judaism. There may be Jews and non Jews behind Hart-Hellers. It was not a Jewish conspiracy to populate the US with non Europeans as a strategic way to destroy homelands including the US. It is a conspiracy you buy into but it is not true. The same with blaming communism on the Jews. There were Jews involved but it was not a part of a Jewish conspiracy.

    It doesn’t matter how may times you “go over” lies, slaving devil.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovadia_Yosef#Non-Jews’_role

    Non-Jews’ role

    In an October 2010 sermon, Yosef stated that “The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews”. He said that Gentiles served a divine purpose:

    “ Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why Gentiles were created.”

    In the same article in The Jerusalem Post, according to the journalist who interviewed him, Yosef compared Gentiles to donkeys whose life has the sole purpose to serve the master:

    “ In Israel, death has no dominion over them…With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but (God) will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant…That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew. Gentiles were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.

    Yosef’s responses were highly regarded within Haredi circles, particularly among Mizrahi communities, among whom he was regarded as “the most important living halakhic authority”.

    His funeral in Jerusalem was the largest in Israel’s history, with an estimated attendance of 850,000. Some religious authorities have stated that this was, perhaps, the largest in-gathering of Jews since the days of the Second Temple.

    You will not begin to flirt with recouping a human soul until you abandon your slaver’s religion.

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  188. @Justsaying

    owning an Empire and a clear indication that the real empire and global hegemony is made in and controlled from Israel. That in fact, is the seat of the real Empire. The real coup pulled off by the super imperial Jews is to make their Goyim puppets feel they are in charge.

    If you were to arrive here form another planet you would be shocked to find that Israel is the little slot on this map below surrounded by those huge Muslim only theocracies land masses. Commenters on UR make Israel seem like the size of the moon with the heat of the sun. For some reason Jews and their country are described with such outsize grandness and supper infused power. A small group of modestly sized people living in a small country with no oil reserve, or special physical sustenance. Mind boggling.

    9de04b8899fd764ef70411b7b1ec912f

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anon
  189. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    It was not a Jewish conspiracy to populate the US with non Europeans as a strategic way to destroy homelands including the US.

    Not true, Fran. Prof. Kevin MacDonald, relying solely on Jewish sources, demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that Jewish Supremacist Organizations (JSOs) played the CENTRAL role in getting congress to pass a non-restrictionist immigration bill in 1965.

    The same with blaming communism on the Jews. There were Jews involved but it was not a part of a Jewish conspiracy.

    I used to think it was a conspiracy, too, Fran… until I did a little research on the origins of the Communist Party of Greece, KKE. Much to my surprise, I discovered something I didn’t expect to find:

    The October Revolution of the Bolsheviks in Russia in 1917 gave impetus for the foundation of communist parties in many countries all over the globe. KKE was founded on 4 November 1918 as the Socialist Labour Party of Greece. The party was run by a five-member central committee… Avram Benaroya played a key role in the foundation of the Party in 1918.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece

    A little backgrounder on Avram Benaroya:

    Avraam Eliezer Benaroya (Hebrew: אברהם בן-ארויה‎) was a Jewish socialist, member of the Bulgarian Social Democratic Workers’ Party, later leader of the Socialist Workers’ Federation in the Ottoman Empire. Benaroya played a key role in the foundation of the Communist Party of Greece in 1918.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avraam_Benaroya

    Just like Greece, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jews played a disproportionate role in the formation of communist parties throughout the rest of Europe and the Western Hemisphere, including the CPUSA (United States), CPP (Poland), PCF (France), Italy (PCI), CPN (Netherlands), CPB (Belgium), CPM (Hungary), CPR (Romania), Hungary (KMP), Bulgaria (BCP), Lithuania (LKP), Estonia (EKP), Latvia (LKP), etc., etc., etc.

    No. Fran. No amount of obfuscation from you or anyone else can refute this undeniable truth!

    It was not a Jewish conspiracy to populate the US with non Europeans as a strategic way to destroy homelands including the US.

    If we consider the European homelands, we have Barbara Lerner Spectre to thank for being much more forthright than you:

    I think there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not survive.

    This is the root cause of “antisemitism,” Fran. But you’ll never admit it, because you’re too keen on defeating it!

  190. anon[359] • Disclaimer says:
    @geokat62

    Speaking of the destruction of Western homelands, I think the look on this Irish? kid’s face does a good job illustrating the magnitude of the disaster that was perpetrated against us:

    Speaking of the cancerousness of ethnic nationalism and the destruction of the capacity for critical thought in the West, geokat62’s comment—featuring a Photoshopped(?) image of a forlorn looking ginger kid, surrounded by a sea of happy-clappy black and Muslim kids—does a good job of illustrating the magnitude of the disaster that the politics of divide and rule have perpetrated against us.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  191. Skeptikal says:
    @Tony Ryals

    And the Irgun and I thnk the Stern Gang and other terrorist outfits “rebranded” themselves as the IDF.
    Plus, all of the first prime ministers were former terrorists.
    Starting with “Ben Gurion” (actually, born David Grün).

    Pfui!

  192. Incitatus says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    “I think you are less than me because I have a gold star.”

    Congratulations S2C! You’re indeed Ron Unz’s favorite “Der Fahne Hoch” Dago troll! Can’t answer detailed questions/direct principal quotes on NSDAP Germany, but that need not concern any. Least of all smug conspiracist Ron Unz! He’s so, so smart (Harvard College, just like Bill Kristol and Tom Cotton). He’s even read A.J.P Taylor twice! What a guy!

    Thanks most for your Italian kin S2C, the Allies secret weapon. Essential in over-extending German commitments, scattered across the globe. Equal notice to CIA régime-change/501c3 bell-ringer Phil Giraldi (who saved all from disaster at Barcelona while collecting salary tax-free). Too bad he wasn’t as good in Africa, or 9/11/01 NY and DC. To say nothing of ‘WMDs 2002-2003.

    “Who wears a feather but isn’t a cockerel? Who wears a steel helmet and isn’t a soldier? Who keeps going backwards but isn’t a crab? The Italians!”
    – Compère Joke, Berlin Kabarett de Komiker Jan 1941

    Amazing the routine early (Jan 1941) voiced German regard for Italians (in good times). It got worse. Joseph Göbbels instructed:

    “The Party should let Berlin have the names of those compères, and particularly women compères, who endeavor to conceal their artistic inadequacy behind dirty jokes, so that these pseudo-artist can be excluded from the Reich Chamber of Culture”
    -Joseph Göbbels [‘The Secret Conferences of Dr. Göbbels: The Nazi Propaganda War 1939-43’ ed. Willi A Boelcke p.117].

    Such exclusion deprived one of a living. No matter, eh Gold-Star S2C? Der Fahne Hoch?

    Great régime. Just what you and Ron pine for?

    How many stars does Ron have?

  193. @SolontoCroesus

    Hey Solonto do those creative kids and grand kids have their full Nazi regalia yet?
    I am sorry there National Socialist flags and arm bands?
    Do they wear them around the house?
    Sing songs, watch films.

    • Replies: @Tony Ryals
  194. anon[350] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    For most of my life I’ve been what many would term a “Holocaust denier”, and it’s been terrible for the rest of my family to have to deal with, until they finally decided to hold an intervention for me.

    We had a rabbi come out to the family home and walk me through the history of the Jewish people. Then he made me watch Schindler’s List and following that I had to read through Fran Taubman’s comments archive, here at The UR, defending Jews and Israel. After all that I did a complete 180.

    Now, I can’t believe it only happened once.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Anonymous
  195. @anon

    You really liked the map? It is a good one. I am so glad it got to you.
    Loved the story especially the part about the Rabbi. LOL

    • Replies: @anon
  196. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Rons definition has nothing to do with a tribes ability to get along. Rituals being exclusionary are racist.

    The problem here is that Jews themselves haven’t presented a very clear picture to the world about these definitions. I mean, Israel uses genetic testing to determine Jewish identity:
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/rabbinate-dna-tests-seek-jewishness-in-the-blood-become-a-bone-of-contention/

    And Jews themselves self-identify as “Jews” on polls and questions when asked about race or ethnicity; look under the threads from Audacious Epigone, or this:

    So for instance, I was born in the province of Sindh, Pakistan which is home region of the people that are Sindhis and they are mostly Muslim. If a Sindhi in the US left Islam for atheism, he would no longer be Muslim, but he would remain a Sindhi – he would be an atheist Sindhi. He would no longer be allowed (as the law is currently enforced) in the sacred precincts of Makkah, whereas a bunch of white guys who recently converted would be quite welcome:

    Now, say an Orthodox Jew left Judaism and became an atheist. What does he become? Is he not an atheist Jew? Plenty of people certainly identify themselves as such.

    This is the confusion that Jews themselves are causing. They need to figure it out and let the world know…though I’m not holding my breath.

    I think the secular world is far more odd then Judaism.

    I’m not really into caring all that much what Judaism states to be honest; not my religion, not really my concern. If they have something in their rabbinical writings that state Muslims will all go to hell and be raped by orangutans for eternity – I completely don’t care since I don’t believe its true any more than a Hindu writing saying I’ll be reincarnated as a dung beetle. And some Jews agree with those things and some don’t – not my business. My only concern is how Jews conduct themselves because that is the Qur’anic imperative; I make distinctions because it asks me to:
    “Among the People of the Book there is he who, if you trust him with a weight of treasure, will return it to you. And among them there is he who, if you trust him with a piece of gold, will not return it to you unless you keep standing over him. That is because they say: ‘We have no duty to the unlearned’ and they speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly.” (3:75)

    Muslim only theocracies land masses

    It is hyperbolic ignorant statements like this that give me the impression you are not arguing in good faith. Muslim countries are not Muslim-only theocracies – that is utter nonsense.

    Jews themselves used to live scattered all over the Muslim world and found refuge time and time again when getting kicked out of Christian lands. The whole problem could have been solved if they (specifically the ethno-nationalist, secular, European Jews) hadn’t worked hand in hand with the global British Empire to undermine and take down the Ottoman Empire and break up that area which had always been open to Jews living there. I have no problem with a ethno-nationalist Jewish state; it should have been carved out of Germany, Poland and Austria. Go make maps of a little Israel in Europe surrounded by White countries and tell THEM you only want a little sliver and “what’s the big deal?”.

    Peace.

  197. @Fran Taubman

    Dear Ms. Francis Taubman,

    Why did the Jewish Zionist controlled U.S. media always keep us ignorant of the fact that it was the founders of Israel who colluded with the Nazis,more than the average Germans did ? Why don’t you ask your white Euro trash Israeli pseudo jews the same questions ?

    Have you ever seen that Nazi coin or medallion with the star of David on one side and the Nazi swaztka on the other that was minted to comemorate the Nazi and Jewish Zionist alliance ? And why did the Rothschild controlled British government allow the Nazis into British controlled Palestine in the first place if they were against the Nazi Jewish Zionist alliance ?

    How cute you and the Zionist pope Francis who colluded with Israel in the sale of arms to the ‘Nazi’ Argentine military that murdered Argentine citizens and raped and murdered 500 innocent catholic women after using their bodies as baby machines share the same name.

  198. geokat62 says:
    @anon

    Speaking of the cancerousness of ethnic nationalism…

    Talk about an anti-Semite! Ron, can we get the ADL to do a cleanup in aisle 6?

    • Replies: @Anon
  199. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The word “goy” is a euphemistic term…

    Excerpts from, Is ‘goy’ a slur?:

    I have a hard time seeing “goy” as anything but offensive…

    But the word “goy” has too much historical and linguistic baggage to be used as casually as “non-Jew” or “gentile.” It starts with the obvious slurs – like “goyishe kopf,” or gentile brains, which suggests (generously) a dullard, or “shikker iz a goy,” a gentile is a drunkard. “Goyishe naches” describes the kinds of things that a Jew mockingly presumes only a gentile would enjoy, like hunting, sailing and eating white bread…

    Ophir and Rozen-Zvi also suggest that the Us and Them thinking of the rabbis tends to reinforce a sense of superiority among the Jews, and assigns to goyim qualities that, as Baker writes, “mark their lack of worthiness – and … none that are genuinely positive.”

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.jta.org/2019/04/22/culture/is-goy-a-slur/amp

  200. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    The Ottoman Empire was an empire – that is, it conquered foreign lands by force and ruled over them by force.

    You think its wrong for Jews to create an independent home for themselves on one small piece of this empire that was their ancient home.

    In your view, only the Ottoman conquest is legitimate, somehow. It’s a revealing perspective – it’s a familiar Muslim inability to consider any viewpoint but their own or to consider the rights of non-Muslims.

    And you say you don’t object to Jews living there, so your objection seems to be to Jewish independence. What you cannot accept is Muslims not ruling over Jews. It is an essentially imperialistic attitude that shows up in your sympathy for the Ottoman Empire – and your almost unconscious admission that the only Muslim conquests can be considered legitimate long term.

    I’m not blaming you – a key feature of your religion is that while you don’t force others to convert, the honor of Allah requires you to rule over them. Otherwise he is not glorified.

    That’s understandable – I just wish an honest Muslim would admit quite frankly that natural law gives him no claim to Palestine, and it is entirely a theological matter. Although not highly sympathetic to modern people, it would be utterly honest and utterly unanswerable.

    You lose points with most normal people by twisting yourselves into pretzels trying to explain why land fairly purchased by Jews at high prices and developed by them, nevertheless needed to be ruled by Muslims according to common notions of natural law.

    Fran’s map is remarkable – it is a vivid and stark illustration of a gigantic cultural and ethnic bloc revising to accept the independence of a miniscule foreign cultural presence on its margins. You can try and frame your narrative in terms of natural law, but there is no answring the stark truth of that map.

    I am optimistic that eventually Islam will undergo a moral revolution, and the sign of this will be when it can peacefully let go of Israel and allow Jews to rule themselves. When this happens, the Islamic world will place itself on firm moral foundations and will be able to heal its many wounds and the horrific eruptions of violence and injustice that regularly plague it.

    God willing, the Islamic region can then benefit from the friendship and cooperation of Jews, and a new positive era can dawn in the region, and the spectacle of Islamic violence can become a dim memory.

    This may be in the distant future, but I am convinced the Islamic world cannot continue on the path it has been taking indefinitely, with all its horror – and the first sign of a change of conscience will be its ability to “let go” of the land of Israel.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Talha
  201. Kali says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Good morning Fran,

    I hope the day finds you well.

    I meant nothing racist nor have I ever posted racist comments about anyone or religion as you have.

    Your “euphemistic” use of the racist term “goy” is duly noted. If you weren’t so quick to throw the accusation of racism so liberally at others I would most likely let this one go. But those in glass-houses shouldn’t throw stones, Fran.

    But moving on, I have a couple of questions to ask, and a couple of misunderstandings to straighten out:

    You suggest that my possition re’ Judaism is “racist” against that religion (or ideology or social construct).
    Please explain how it is possible for one to be “racist” against a religion/ideology/social-contruct? – What is it about my scribblings here that leads you to judge me as a racist?

    Or is it that you have been taught to think of “jews” as a “race”, destinguished by certain “racial” chracteristics?
    If this is the case, how do you account for the existance of those African “jews” currently being deported from “israel” because of their blackness?

    You ask about how Jews are connected to Israel archeologically.

    Actually I asked specifically how Ashkenazi’s are connected to “israel”.

    I also asked for archiological evidence supporting the myth of the jewish exodus from Egypt.

    These are very specific questions.

    But you ignored the questions I actually asked and transposed your own.
    You still haven’t answered them. Rather you have atributed to me question which I have not asked.

    Luckily I make a practice of not taking such (deliberate) mischaraterisations personally.

    Fran, that you tried to defame me as a racist, ignored the very specific questions I asked (in order to present a bunch of barely related, pre-prepared “answers”) and that you struggle to comprehend my more esoteric statements reflects your “sheer cliff of stupidity” (just parroting you) not mine.

    But maybe I can clarify what I’m trying to express using more simple terms.

    In my statement that you quoted (btw, thanks for actually quoting me rarher than attributing your misinterpretations to me) what I’m suggesting is that “enlightenment” (in the spiritual sence) might be acheive through certain religious practices (though more frequently religions bind one in dogma rather than liberate the soul – still, the possibility if acheiving enlightenment is there).

    There are, however, two religions of which I am personally aware, which are predominantly or wholy materialistic, which entirely externalise god – that is, they present their concept of “god” as an external force which must be appeased, which judges and condemns, which reqires sacrefice and obedience and which depends on spokesmen to deliver its orders and “comandnents. Crucially, they cause the oracticioner to look outside of themsekves for “god”, that is, they point in exactky the opisite durection to where God may be found. Then, if these orders and comandments of that external (non-essential) “god” are followed and the required sacrifices made, then the followers of these rites may acheive material reward in this world.

    That is not to say that “jews”, i.e. people who self-identify as such, are not capable of acheiving spiritual enlightenment. (They/you are as capable as anyone.) But that they will never acheive it through the practice if the Judaic religion.

    The same goes for the practicioners of Satanism. There may be others which I’m not aware of.

    And though organised religions, such as Christianity (for example), also make of God some external, judgemental force, through the teachings of Christ himself (who did not found that religion, but who was co-opted by it) enlightenment may be found.

    That you are a proud jew is obvious from all of your posts. That you feel the practice of Judaism helpful in your daily life is not at issue. Most religious people find comfort in their religions.

    Religions provide ready-made answers to the deeper questions of life, so that the follower may abandon any search for truth and hold on to their most comforting beliefs instead.

    But the words “I believe” litterally mean “I don’t know”… that on seeking truth one accepted a belief instead, and took the search no further.

    Then comes the cognative dissonance: “My religion cannot possibly be exclusive, destructive, exploitative because it brings me so much comfort…”, despite that your religion creates a destructive “god” which instructs its followers to utterly destroy its enemies, which provides for the exploitation of others and which favours “jews” over all other people.

    And from this possition of cognative dissonance you rail against anyone and everyone who, through their explorations of the tennants of your religion, would disagree with you, though you yourself have never looked beyond the things you were taught to believe as a child, never questioned the “rightness” of those beliefs.

    You call me (and every other “goy” denouncing your beliefs and the destructive consequences of “judaic” influences on the world) racist, using your hasbarist talking points to do so , because you fear that we may be correct but are more fearful of leaving your comfort-zone to find out for yourself.

    But if any one of us commenting on this website manages to encourage you to begin to question those beliefs with which you’ve been indocrinated since childhood the whole will be a less hostile place for us all – “goy” and “jew” alike.

    I hope I’ve managed to put things more clearly for you. If not, I apologise.

    Kali.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Skeptikal
  202. Anonymous[325] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Dang it, Man! Wet my pants.

    Great punch line.

  203. anon[220] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You really liked the map? It is a good one. I am so glad it got to you.

    ROFL! Oh, yeah, I “really liked” your asinine hasbara “map” and your nonsensical hasbara word salad, judensau. It is a good insight into the depraved perceptions of a senile jew racist. I am so glad you’ve made it so easy to get to you.

    Loved the sentiment though, especially the part about the Rabbi. LOL

    Awwww, shucks, I’m so sorry to have to break this to ya hon, but Rabbi Jehudah J. Epstein was shoahed last November and is now presumed to be boiling in hell in hot excrement and semen alongside Zeyde Gersh, Bubbe Mitzi and murdered jew Jesus. LOL.

  204. Anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    If you were to arrive here form another planet you would be shocked to find that Israel is the little slot on this map below surrounded by those huge Muslim only theocracies land masses.

    Not shocked. There would be no Islam without its foundation in Judaism. In fact, it is mainstream history that one of Islam’s first uses was when, with the assistance of the “co-native Spanish” Jews, it over-ran and destroyed Visigoth Spain. Ever since then, the Spanish and Portuguese have been half Moorish and the Jews have closely cooperated with their Islamic golem.

    Your false duality between Jews and Islam has zero value other than to illustrate Jewish deceit. As if we need it to be repeatedly illustrated.

    Commenters on UR make Israel seem like the size of the moon with the heat of the sun.

    Reliance on hyperbole is a symptom of (your) weak mind. The reality is that we recognize Israel’s theological significance as the ruling place over the goyim in the Jewish Messianic period, its existence as evidence of Western political double standard for Jews and non-Jews, and that our “leaders” are forced to serve Israel in spite of clear anti-Jewish forces being responsible for their election.

    For some reason Jews and their country are described with such outsize grandness and supper infused power. A small group of modestly sized people living in a small country with no oil reserve, or special physical sustenance. Mind boggling.

    Aww… more Taubman Jewish superhero schlock. Yes, yes, those scrappy Jews…and the Israeli miracle…and retch. Find a new narrative to print. Repeatedly sharing your personal opiate in regard to your identity is like publicly revealing your private parts because you are enamored with them. They are fucking nauseating and underwhelming in spite of your body dismorphia that informs you of the contrary. Stick with the bedroom mirror, with the door tightly shut.

    You people are closely embedded with Sunni Islam, your slaving religion is the basis of Islam (both being large world problems of the highest inconvenience, both being highly destructive, and both to zero net benefit to the rest of the world), you lie and spin out of pure national interests and therefore with no mooring in morality or truth.

    And what does “physical sustenance” refer to? I’m aware that you aren’t particularly bright nor honest, but here you are haphazardly stringing words together. Because this phrase sounds dramatic? Melodic? This writing is below even your average bar.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  205. Anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    These forms of anti-Semitism may be less bloody than street crime in New York, but they channel the same ancient hatred, the same conspiratorial and obsessive focus on the Jewish people.

    And yet the Jewish books, and therefore the Jewish religion, obsessively focuses on non-Jewish people.

    Perhaps that is the root of the returned gaze on Jews.

  206. Anon[620] • Disclaimer says:
    @geokat62

    Talk about an anti-Semite! Ron, can we get the ADL to do a cleanup in aisle 6?

    IKR! You went from being a super perceptive and incisive contributor, to sounding like a senile old jewtard the moment you clutched your pearls and went all misty-eyed on us, over a fucking meme! Maybe Ron can get the ADL to donate some Yom HaShoah candles, so we can commemorate all the poor, persecuted ginger kids and the coming white genocide in proper jew style?

    • Replies: @geokat62
  207. geokat62 says:
    @Anon

    … and the coming white genocide…

    Mark Potok, is that you?

    I bet you’re all giddy getting ready to post the 2020 figure on that chart on your SPLC wall:

    Maybe Ron can get the ADL to donate some Yom HaShoah candles, so we can commemorate all the poor, persecuted ginger kids…

    Nah, I think Chinese candles would be more fitting!

    Excerpt from, Professor believes the Irish will be an ethnic minority in Ireland by 2050:

    Professor Ferdinand von Prondzynski was referring to an unidentified United Kingdom based research. Speaking at the conferring ceremony at DCU he said that the Irish in Ireland will be a minority by 2050 while the Chinese may form the largest ethnic group.

    https://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/professor-believes-the-irish-will-be-an-ethnic-minority-in-ireland-by-2050

    • Replies: @anon
  208. JT says: • Website

    Engaging with comments here is instructive. Slighted souls see bane where there is boon. To “sport” is a denigration. “What have you to offer” a condescending put-down. Anything to fit the “evil Jew” bill eh?

    I think anyone who read Israel Shamir’s characterizations of my work, knows that I am as critical of my own “tribe” as is Atzmon, or Stern. It’s patent from my tweets.

    I had no intention of belittling anyone here, nor did I put on my “Jew hat” to do so. I am in no position to negotiate with anyone, gentiles, Jews, let alone my next door neighbor, and I am bemused by how seriously some take themselves to imagine me as some obsessive, stalking specter. Incels I suppose. Crusty-pants unemployed screen gooners.

    On my blog (tsarfat.wordpres.com), I wrote about the Rothschild family. It wasn’t flattering, nor a condemnation. There is Jewish power there, but there is also tremendous benefit for the gentiles.

    In my Alstom article, in describing the manner in which Jews in France are disassociating from general society, and how this costs the country dearly, I made it clear that gentiles share their part of the blame, because the French don’t need Jews to confuse them about their identity. They are perfectly confused as it is.

    Let me clarify a few things about comments made here. I never characterized all of Christianity as fake. I was referring only to the modern variety. The Evangelical pastors driving Coal Rollers, and watching kiddie porn. The progressive equivalent obsessed with transgenders, homosexuals, minorities. Trends which have infected Orthodox Judaism and Reform Judaism respectively. Forces which I attribute to identities sabotaged by consumerism.

    I am baffled how this could offend anyone. Let alone a crowd supposedly on the “nothing offends me” bandwagon. I am tired of Jewish victim-hood, but I’m not about to trade it for the low-income gentile variety.

    Some commentators here are genuine Anti-Semites. Please don’t waste anyone’s time denying it. You have your arguments. I get it. Wear your insignia proudly. I listen with interest, but all I hear is whining.

    You expect intelligent people to commit to this whining? Whining either entirely antagonistic to Jews, or so hopelessly confused, nihilistic, and decrepit, so as to repulse even the most naive and hopeful?

    When I ask what you have to offer, you spew hatred or confusion. Intelligent people care about their families, earning power, and mobility. They don’t have time or resources to fix the mental wounds of the listless, shiftless, and deluded.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Kali
  209. Anon[374] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    At least I am not spreading racist lies and propagating hatred.

    In the Zohar, it is stated that all non-Jews are impure.

    In the Zohar, it is stated that all impurity shall be eradicated from the Earth before the Jewish Messianic Period.

    Facts that reveal you to be an artist primarily of lies.

    Facts that reveal the Jewish religion, to which you belong and which you vigorously defend, to be the platonic ideal of hatred and racism.

  210. @Talha

    You covered a lot of ground here. I may have to do this in separate comments. I hate the long long ones especially on a day when the Ravens just lost. It was hard to face the day.

    The problem here is that Jews themselves haven’t presented a very clear picture to the world about these definitions. I mean, Israel uses genetic testing to determine Jewish identity:

    Jews are an ethnic race past down by the gene through the mother. Your example of being born Sindhi where there are Muslims and non Muslims therefore a religion is one example. But in many cases the ethnicity and religion are one and inseparable like the the Saudi tribe and the citizens KSA.. Can you be a Christian Saudi citizen? I could go on with many examples of religion vs Ethnicity, where there are some that are both and some where it is just a religion for many different ethnicities.
    Secular Jews who renounce Judaism are still considered Jews, certainly that was true in Germany, and other anti-semites like PG who identifies Jews by their surnames.

    I’m not really into caring all that much what Judaism states to be honest; not my religion, not really my concern. If they have something in their rabbinical writings that state Muslims will all go to hell and be raped by orangutans for eternity – I completely don’t care since I don’t believe its true any more than a Hindu writing saying I’ll be reincarnated as a dung beetle. And some Jews agree with those things and some don’t – not my business. My only concern is how Jews conduct themselves because that is the Qur’anic imperative; I make distinctions because it asks me to:
    “Among the People of the Book there is he who, if you trust him with a weight of treasure, will return it to you. And among them there is he who, if you trust him with a piece of gold, will not return it to you unless you keep standing over him. That is because they say: ‘We have no duty to the unlearned’ and they speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly.” (3:75)

    No idea what your talking about but sounds like the stock and trade Qu’ranic response to you (Islam) got it right we (Judaism) used to get it right but lost the plot. Therefore you are superior. You worry about your behavior I will worry about mine. Civil law governs except in Shira countries.

    It is hyperbolic ignorant statements like this that give me the impression you are not arguing in good faith. Muslim countries are not Muslim-only theocracies – that is utter nonsense.

    It is not hyperbolic nor ignorant nor nonsense. All of the countries on that map are run according to Shira and are therefore theocratic. None of them are democracies. All of them are run by dictators.
    The quality of the lives of non Muslims living in Muslim lands are controlled by thespecific rulers and clerics who decide the fate of the infidels. Many of the countries are kind to other religions others not so kind. Like the Coptic Christians in Egypt. But in all of those countries non Muslims can not equal to Muslims.
    You also no Talha that Jews were treated very unevenly by Islamic countries they lived in. But universally Jews had to pay tax to live there as Dihumnis.

    • Replies: @Talha
  211. @Talha

    Got to deal with this separately oh boy here we go.

    The whole problem could have been solved if they (specifically the ethno-nationalist, secular, European Jews) hadn’t worked hand in hand with the global British Empire to undermine and take down the Ottoman Empire and break up that area which had always been open to Jews living there. I have no problem with a ethno-nationalist Jewish state; it should have been carved out of Germany, Poland and Austria. Go make maps of a little Israel in Europe surrounded by White countries and tell THEM you only want a little sliver and “what’s the big deal?”.

    The Jews had nothing to do with the breakup of the Ottoman Empire. It was broken up by the Allies that defeated Germany during WW1. The Ottomans sided with the Germans, therefor the territory became the spoils of war divided between the French and British. NMP.

    I have no problem with a ethno-nationalist Jewish state; it should have been carved out of Germany, Poland and Austria.

    I will use the same response to this statement as you gave to me. This is flat out ignorant, disingenuous and you are not arguing in good faith. There have been Jews living in the ME in Muslim countries including the province of Palestine lower Syria, since Temple times. The Jews represent a small percentage of the population and as you can see by the map are represented by a small land mass. Because we are a minority does not mean we do not have the right to self determination. Europe? common.

    The land of Palestine/ Israel was supposed to be divided by partition similar to Pakistan and India, which also had religious strife as the Hindus could not tolerate the Chauvinism of the Muslims.
    And they still fight over Kashmir.

    Israel is the ancestral homeland of the Jews and Jerusalem seat of Jewish power, and the home of both Temples: Solomon and David standing 400 years each. Jerusalem and Israel are mentioned in the bible every other page. Both are not mentioned once in the Koran. Not your home. Arabia is for the Arabs Judea for the Jews.

    I agree with Aaron B’s assessment of Islam.

    And you say you don’t object to Jews living there, so your objection seems to be to Jewish independence. What you cannot accept is Muslims not ruling over Jews. It is an essentially imperialistic attitude that shows up in your sympathy for the Ottoman Empire – and your almost unconscious admission that the only Muslim conquests can be considered legitimate long term.

    I’m not blaming you – a key feature of your religion is that while you don’t force others to convert, the honor of Allah requires you to rule over them. Otherwise he is not glorified.

    You want proof of Islam’s chauvinistic Imperialism, look no further than the fake: Islamic claim that Al-Aqsa is the third holiest site in Islam.

    What is the third holiest site about? Where Mohammed flew into heaven on a winged horse. What is more important the Beit HaMikdash the Jewish Temple ( even recognized in the Koran in Arabic) or the winged horse transport of your prophet to heaven?

    We have discussed this before that Al-Aqsa did not start out as the destination for the furthest Mosque. (In the Koran: The prophet will travel from the nearest mosque Mecca to the furthest mosque). Jerusalem is not mentioned as the furthest mosque in the Koran. Jerusalem as the third holiest site was added much later.
    Can you guess why Jerusalem became your third holiest site? Pure imperialism. Chauvinism.

    Jerusalem is our one and only holy site, the absolute essential location of Jewish holiness: the site of our spiritual well being.

    Mecca and Medina are your first and second holy site. The location of thee Haj and the Kibbeh. You do not need a third over our one and only. Typical irrational Islamic behavior.

    I also agree with Aaron B: Nothing good is going to happen to Arabia and the Ummah until Islam recognizes the hegemony of Jews over Israel. Iran’s Imperial efforts to take over the ME and liberate Jerusalem with it’s proxy Al -Quds forces are sacrificing the economic and social advancement of it’s citizen.
    If Islam ever did reverse course and acknowledge Israel as a Jewish state a renaissance between the Jews and Islam can turn the ME into a paradise.

    A thousand Al-quds forces will not liberate Jerusalem. Look around you, the death and destruction will continue until Islam stops trying to defeat the Jews.?

    Many Suni leaders already know this and would like to move forward like Anwar Sadat in making peace with Israel, and acknowledging it as a Jewish state, but the Jihadist, the Muslim brotherhood, Iran and the Shia proxies will not allow it.
    Here we are.

  212. @Anon

    “physical sustenance”
    The land was arid, the soil barren. It needed innovative and new irrigation technology to farm it. The land was not farm ready or inviting. Not like the oil producing Arabian ones. It contained no inherent wealth, and required a huge huge amount of work to revive it with trees etc.
    The Jews developed the land and the country with their own bare hands. They did not take over a ready made country.

  213. @Kali

    I also asked for archiological evidence supporting the myth of the jewish exodus from Egypt.

    You can download this on your computer. The movie is called Patterns of Evidence
    https://answersingenesis.org/reviews/movies/movie-review-patterns-of-evidence-exodus/

    Actually I asked specifically how Ashkenazi’s are connected to “israel”.

    I have answered this a million times.

    Ashkenazi Jews are Jews that migrated from Israel to Rome and then Europe after the fall of the Jewish temple in 70 AD.

    You can google this stuff on your own. I am not a history teacher.

    That is not to say that “jews”, i.e. people who self-identify as such, are not capable of acheiving spiritual enlightenment. (They/you are as capable as anyone.) But that they will never acheive it through the practice if the Judaic religion.

    The same goes for the practicioners of Satanism. There may be others which I’m not aware of.

    You are on your own GF. This is just shear shite and makes no sense as an observation of thought and or idea. It is not written in my language which is English.I experience spiritual enlightenment thru the practice of Judaism I told you that. You saying that I can’t as in the practitioners of Satanism because you say so? what?

    Just oh wow you make no sense. Move on

    • Replies: @Kali
  214. Skeptikal says:
    @AaronB

    This whole post is off-track, because the premise is 180 degrees wrong regarding the character of the Ottoman empire and the character of the Jewish apartheid state.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @AaronB
  215. Skeptikal says:
    @Kali

    “But that they will never acheive it through the practice if the Judaic religion.”

    As far as I can see the Jewish religion has zero spiritual content or belief system.
    It is a collection of rituals and grandma’s recipes and meals, and arguments.
    Its holidays celebrate martial victories and defeats. Not spiritual victories or transcendent experiences.
    Its practitioners revel in their “chosenness ” as elevating them above all other humans, who are “goy” and unclean. meanwhile it is the chosens who practice barbaric mutilation rituals in the name of their god, which they define as a universal God.

    What an awful religion. And definitely not the basis for governing a state. I don’t suppose that any religion is actually a good basis for governing a modern state, but I’ll take the Iranians’ Islam over the Jews’ terrible Yahweh any day.

    The latter are steeped in self-deception as they justify the murder of local Arabs and theft of their property and their water and their lives be their conviction of superiority and chosennes by “Yahweh.” It is really a disgusting spectacle, and a crock. Only the fifth-column power of diaspora Jews in the USA increasingly sanctions any mention of these obvious circumstances in our public life.

    • Agree: Kali
  216. Skeptikal says:
    @JT

    “but all I hear is whining.”

    Interesting inversion of the “whining” meme.
    I called out JT as a whiner, whining in the dark.
    JT is apparently unaware of the number and degree of absurd assumptions he makes about others.
    But he is offended if this is pointed out to him.
    These “others” are not engaging with him as he wishes.

  217. @Skeptikal

    Hilarious just hilarious.
    You should try stand up Kali,

    The ottoman empire was an empire that ruled palatine. It was apartheid on steroids. The citizens could not vote for their leaders. All the land was owned by the Turks. Hilarious.

    • Replies: @Kali
    , @Skeptikal
  218. AaronB says:
    @Skeptikal

    I think all religions are legitimate paths to the Divine for their respective people, and I look forward to the day when we can all cooperate in harmony.

    Muslims believe they must rule non-Muslims in order to glorify Allah – I think this is a bad part of Islam, but you’ll never catch me demonizing Islam wholesale. And I am optimistic Islam will get rid of this attitude and raise itself morally, and one of the signs of this is it will leave Israel alone in peace and work on the horrible internal problems that have made the Muslim world so much less than it could be.

    Demonizing any single religion wholesale generally comes from ignorance – I believe all malice and hatred comes from ignorance about our true nature and the true nature of the universe. We are all interconnected – but some people have not yet realized this, so they hate.

    I hope one day you educate yourself on Judaism and realize your mistake, even if its far in the future. And even if you don’t, I bear you no ill will and realize you are acting our of ignorance

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Skeptikal
  219. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Jews are an ethnic race past down by the gene through the mother…Secular Jews who renounce Judaism are still considered Jews

    OK – so it’s an ethnic race then. Glad we cleared that up.

    But in many cases the ethnicity and religion are one and inseparable like the the Saudi tribe and the citizens KSA.. Can you be a Christian Saudi citizen?

    Bad example since this has to do with laws of Saudi. One can easily be a Saudi and even an atheist…once they move to the US or Canada. They cease being a Muslim since Muslim is not a racial identity, but they remain a Saudi (or a person of Saudi heritage).

    You worry about your behavior I will worry about mine.

    That’s exactly wha tI was implying by citing the verse.

    All of the countries on that map are run according to Shira and are therefore theocratic.

    The only country that is theocratic is Iran – which is run by clerics. No other country is run by clerics. The various countries adopt Shariah in as much as the citizens are supportive of it, look at the polls, Shariah has fairly decent support in Muslim lands.

    None of them are democracies.

    Nonsense; right off the bat, Turkey and Pakistan are democracies.

    All of them are run by dictators.

    This is where you run into obvious inconsistencies; Morsi was an Islamist elected by popular vote, but he was overthrown by Sisi – a more secular dictator…yet you would claim a country like Egypt in a theocracy. Your hyperbolic attempts to throw some comic-book narrative on the Middle East might work at a frat party. Most people here know better.

    But in all of those countries non Muslims can not equal to Muslims.

    They can, most Muslim countries (that are stable and have civil order) have decent rights for their non-Muslim citizens, but they simply can’t run the place and they are generally excluded from highest offices.

    that Jews were treated very unevenly by Islamic countries they lived in.

    Correct; some places they were treated quite well and in others, they were marginalized and mistreated.

    universally Jews had to pay tax to live there as Dihumnis.

    Well, yeah…everyone has to pay taxes. You talk as if Muslims or others didn’t have to.

    The Jews had nothing to do with the breakup of the Ottoman Empire.

    More nonsense. Zionist organizations (with well-placed Jewish elite like Chaim Wiezman, the Rothschilds, Herbert Samuel and others) had plenty of high level meetings with British officials and were integral to drafting things like the Balfour Declaration.

    There have been Jews living in the ME in Muslim countries including the province of Palestine lower Syria, since Temple times.

    Correct, and the vast majority of those Jews were completely uninterested in uprooting themselves to move into Palestine (they had to be pressured into leaving by our idiot secular Arab ethno-nationalists). The European Zionists were quite frustrated with them.

    Because we are a minority does not mean we do not have the right to self determination.

    When the Zionists fold up all the settlements in the West Bank and let the Palestinians have their self-determination in that area, I’ll take this seriously.

    Solomon and David

    Our prophets too.

    Not your home. Arabia is for the Arabs Judea for the Jews.

    I’m not an Arab. Your opinion that the Arabs should not be allowed in the region considered Judea is duly noted.

    Can you guess why Jerusalem became your third holiest site? Pure imperialism. Chauvinism.

    No, it’s actually in hadith and no scholar has ever thought that the reference to al-Aqsa in the Qur’an was to anything but Jerusalem and the holy site therein. The Companions (ra) of the Prophet (pbuh) who themselves conquered that area from the Byzantines knew well what is was, none of them had a disagreement.

    We’ve never asked for Jewish interpretations of our scriptures before, not about to start now. You dismiss our legitimate claim to the site…no problems, we can do it the hard way.

    I personally think it would be best to make Jerusalem an international and de-militarized city with only a local police force made up of Christians, Jews and Muslims and considered a neutral zone by all other countries.

    If Islam ever did reverse course and acknowledge Israel as a Jewish state a renaissance between the Jews and Islam can turn the ME into a paradise.

    Same could happen if the Zionists quit their bunker mentality, stop illegal settlements and opted to go for a EU-type integration into a larger Middle East bloc; retaining a high degree of autonomy in their majority areas and being able to settle and move freely in the Middle East as before.

    Look around you, the death and destruction will continue until Islam stops trying to defeat the Jews.?

    Yup. The Zionists have extremely powerful friends that are willing to kill and die on their behalf. It’s just like the Crusades, the Muslims are going to keep getting trashed and humiliated as long as they are disunited and backstabbing each other – that’s what started this mess in the first place.

    Peace.

  220. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    The Ottoman Empire was an empire – that is, it conquered foreign lands by force and ruled over them by force.

    As was the British Empire.

    In your view, only the Ottoman conquest is legitimate, somehow.

    That’s silly. That entire region was opened up to the Muslims by the swards and shields of the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh). And it was defended for 1400 years by thousands upon thousands of Muslims from all backgrounds fighting Byzantines, Latin Crusaders, Mongols, French, etc.

    The Jews took that land originally by force then lost it by force to Babylonians, Persians, Romans, etc. And then the Muslims conquered it and held on to it for all that time. How many field armies did the Jews provide against all those enemies during all those conflicts?

    consider the rights of non-Muslims.

    The Muslims always allowed non-Muslims to settle and live in that region. Why should that entail full independence? If a group of Muslims went into a Connecticut-sized place in New Mexico and bought a bunch of land and built it up, why does that automatically ensure they can simply secede from the US? And what if they said, well the US carved this out in a war with Mexico, so now we can just run off with it – no one would take that seriously.

    I just wish an honest Muslim would admit quite frankly that natural law gives him no claim to Palestine, and it is entirely a theological matter.

    You wanting Muslims to simply dismiss 1400 years of history is duly noted. And frankly, plenty of Zionists make this a theological matter (ask Fran).

    You can try and frame your narrative in terms of natural law, but there is no answring the stark truth of that map.

    Likewise if they grabbed a little sliver in Europe. The Europeans have a ton of land between them, it should be so simple to cede an Israel-sized nation.

    Jews to rule themselves.

    I’ve got no problems with highly-autonomous Jewish areas within that region or in other parts of the Muslim world.

    will be able to heal its many wounds and the horrific eruptions of violence and injustice that regularly plague it.

    You mean like the invasion of Iraq which was guaranteed to produce such positive results throughout the region:

    God willing, the Islamic region can then benefit from the friendship and cooperation of Jews, and a new positive era can dawn in the region, and the spectacle of Islamic violence can become a dim memory.

    I hope for this too, certain Jews made positive contributions to the Muslim world in the past. I certainly see no reason why that can’t be under some kind of a framework like I outlined to Fran.

    the first sign of a change of conscience will be its ability to “let go” of the land of Israel.

    Well, it’ll be nice to first see the Zionist “let go” of the West Bank to be able to take them seriously. They can also let go of their bunker mentality and see that they also have a lot to gain by returning to a position where they might not have full autonomy, but the vastness of the Muslim world is open to them as a home.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  221. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Demonizing any single religion wholesale generally comes from ignorance – I believe all malice and hatred comes from ignorance about our true nature and the true nature of the universe. We are all interconnected – but some people have not yet realized this, so they hate.

    I hope one day you educate yourself on Judaism and realize your mistake, even if its far in the future. And even if you don’t, I bear you no ill will and realize you are acting our of ignorance

    Judaism and its leaders blatantly call for destroying / enslaving non-Jews. Your religion is rooted in a “Messianic Period” of domination. Your appeals to sympathy and “religion” are rooted in lies. Judaism is solely a political program.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovadia_Yosef#Non-Jews’_role

    • Replies: @anon
  222. anon[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Anti Judaism is anti semitism
    Criticizing , disparaging,and discriminating someone on the basis of a particular religious belief is manifestation of hatred,fear,ignorance ,and license to harm without moral pangs and at certain time in the past no legal consequences .
    In case of Judaism , this is anti Semitic
    In cases of Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity or Islam , we do not have names or labels or signifiers . We need one ( otherwise we will be like stupid Fox anchor who wondered whether killing Sikh in temple in WI was anti Semitic ) .lets refer to those behaviors as Anti Humanity ,

    But calling the policies of Modi RSS BJP, or Imran , Muslim league , or MbS Royal – Wahabi. , or criticizing Bush jr or Trump sr should not be confused with Anti Humanity

    Years ago , Abba Evan decided that anti Judaism which is anti Semitism will be merged with anti Israeli ism which is Antizionism and be declared one and same .

    There was this Father Son and Holy Ghost, Now we have Israel Judaism and Zionism – geography becomes Old Testament, and Old Testament verifies and decides Israeli politics. Israeli politics for the OT( entire Palestine is OT – occupied ) is Zionism . What a convoluted theology of dark dreams !

    But money muscle and big patron can push any law . So now worldly practices can’t be criticized because the criticism doesn’t Make allowances for or believe in the divine reason behind the worldly practice .

  223. @Talha

    I do find it odd that a night trip to heaven would usurp the location of the holiest Jewish site, where the holy of holies is, the ark of the covenant etc. You know huge stuff.
    I am not belittling the ride on the horse but to me it is not as important as the site of where Jewish temples stood for 800 years and where Jesus preached. Just my opinion.
    From an article:

    [MORE]

    When the Prophet Mohammad established Islam, he introduced a minimum of innovations. He employed the hallowed personages, historic legends and sacred sites of Judaism and Christianity, and even paganism, by Islamizing them. Thus, according to Islam, Abraham was the first Muslim and Jesus and St. John (the sons of Miriam, sister of Moses and Aron) were prophets and guardians of the second heaven. Many Biblical legends (“asatir al-awwalin”,) which were familiar to the pagan Arabs before the dawn of Islam, underwent an Islamic conversion, and the Koran as well as the Hadith (the Islamic oral tradition), are replete with them.
     
    Islamization was practiced on places as well as persons: Mecca and the holy stone – al-Ka’bah – were holy sites of the pre-Islamic pagan Arabs. The Umayyad Mosque in Damascus and the Great Mosque of Istanbul were erected on the sites of Christian-Byzantine churches – two of the better known examples of how Islam treats sanctuaries of other faiths.
     
    Jerusalem, too, underwent the process of Islamization: at first Muhammad attempted to convince the Jews near Medina to join his young community, and, by way of persuasion, established the direction of prayer (kiblah) to be to the north, towards Jerusalem, in keeping with Jewish practice; but after he failed in this attempt he turned against the Jews, killed many of them, and directed the kiblah southward, towards Mecca.
     
    Muhammad’s abandonment of Jerusalem explains the fact that this city is not mentioned even once in the Koran. After Palestine was occupied by the Muslims, its capital was Ramlah, 30 miles to the west of Jerusalem, signifying that Jerusalem meant nothing to them.
     
    Rediscovering Jerusalem
    Islam rediscovered Jerusalem 50 years after Mohammad’s death. In 682 CE, Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr rebelled

    against the Islamic rulers in Damascus, conquered Mecca and prevented pilgrims from reaching Mecca for the Hajj. Abd al-Malik, the Umayyad Calif, needed an alternative site for the pilgrimage and settled on Jerusalem which was then under his control. In order to justify this choice, a verse from the Koran was chosen (17,1 = sura 17, verse,) which states (translation by Majid Fakhri):

     
    “Glory to Him who caused His servant to travel by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We have blessed, in order to show him some of Our Signs, He is indeed the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing. ”
     
    The meaning ascribed to this verse is that “the furthest mosque” (al-masgid al-aqsa) is in Jerusalem and that Mohammad was conveyed there one night (although at that time the journey took three days by camel,) on the back of al-Buraq, a magical horse with the head of a woman, wings of an eagle, the tail of a peacock, and hoofs reaching to the horizon. He tethered the horse to the Western Wall of the Temple Mount and from there ascended to the seventh heaven together with the angel Gabriel. On his way he met the prophets of other religions who are the guardians of heaven.
     
    Miraculous account
    Thus Islam tries to gain legitimacy over other, older religions, by creating a scene in which the former prophets agree to Mohammad’s mastery, thus making him Khatam al-Anbiya (“the Seal of the Prophets”.)
     
    Not surprisingly, this miraculous account contradicts a number of the tenets of Islam: How can a living man of flesh and blood ascend to heaven? How can a mythical creature carry a mortal to a real destination? Questions such as these have caused orthodox Muslim thinkers to conclude that the nocturnal journey was a dream of Mohammad’s. The journey and the ascent serves Islam to “go one better” than the Bible: Moses “only” went up to Mount Sinai, in the middle of nowhere, and drew close to heaven, whereas Mohammad went all the way up to Allah, and from Jerusalem itself.

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3596681,00.html

    • Replies: @Talha
  224. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    (Sigh)…the ride on the horse.

    You still don’t get it, do you? That place is holy precisely because of all the previous prophets (pbut) that it is related to.

    The Umayyad Mosque in Damascus… better known examples of how Islam treats sanctuaries of other faiths.

    It is well known that the Caliph al-Walid bought the church before replacing it with a mosque:
    “Al-Walid chose a site that was already considered holy: it had originally housed a temple dedicated to the Syrian storm-god Hadad, which was replaced with a Roman temple dedicated to Jupiter Dolichenus, which was in turn replaced with the Church of John the Baptist. Al-Walid bought the church and promptly demolished it, leaving only the inner walls of the original temple,2 which became the entrance to the mosque.”
    https://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2012/byzantium-and-islam/blog/where-in-the-world/posts/damascus

    But don’t expect to hear that detail from the chop-shop guy writing the article.

    but after he failed in this attempt he turned against the Jews, killed many of them, and directed the kiblah southward, towards Mecca.

    LOOOL!!!

    Questions such as these have caused orthodox Muslim thinkers to conclude that the nocturnal journey was a dream of Mohammad’s.

    Your problem is right there. You seem to get your information on Islamic doctrine from Op-Eds written by guys name Mordechai Kedar. That fact that he would get something so simple, so fundamentally incorrect should be the first clue. But, if that’s where you get your info on the opinions of Orthodox Muslim scholars, all I can say is; carry on.

    That’s fine really, anyone who wants to believe what Mordechai is selling as history – well, it doesn’t bother me at all. I’ve seen far worse. So maybe he has convinced a boatload of Jews that Muslim claims don’t have a leg to stand on – that’s great…but those aren’t the guys he has to convince.

    Your insistence that only Hebrew prophets, and not those of the line of Bani Ismael, could possibly be the locus of miraculous events is duly noted.

    Peace.

  225. @Talha

    Modern-day Jews are defined as such not through their maternal line, which was always local women, and the founding population were ancient Jewish male migrants. Ashkenazi, for example, are the result of Jewish males intermarrying Italian women prior.

    Many Muslims possess very ancient DNA from Arab traders who intermarried with local women. Oman was a seafaring nation and today Southeast Asian Muslims often have Omani DNA. South Indian Muslims often have Yemeni or Omani DNA.

    Also, and of course you know this, Islam is far more widespread than Judaism from Albania to Indonesia. Jews were local traders and not seafaring Muslim ones.

    From the very beginning, Islam took a socialistic stance and Judaism a more class-conscious one. St. Thomas Christians are descended from Syrian Jews who married Brahmin women for example while Muslim traders from Yemen and Oman tended to convert locals from the bottom of the Hindu caste system.

  226. Kali says:
    @JT

    When I ask what you have to offer, you spew hatred or confusion.

    Maybe if you’d premised your questions with a description of what “jews offer” or “bring to the table” and explained what you meant with your use of the word “sport” you’d have got a more positive, open responce, JT.

    sport (v.)
    c. 1400, “to take pleasure, to amuse oneself,” from Old French desporter, deporter “to divert, amuse, please, play; to seek amusement,” literally “carry away” (the mind from serious matters), from des- “away” (see dis-) + porter “to carry,” from Latin portare “to carry” (from PIE root *per- (2) “to lead, pass over”).
    https://www.etymonline.com/word/sport

    As it is your questions read like demands from a quater which is constantly demanding more – as far as my reading of history suggests.

    “The jews” have been offered and given a great deal over the last couple of hundred years, and with every offer, every gift, every concession, they have demanded more… and more…

    Hence the responses you got from people who have come to recognise that trait.

    And now that you’ve read a half-dozen responces to your questions, each railing against your arrogant tone you blame the respondents without a single consideration that it may be you who is at fault. – Take the log out of your own eye Dude!

    Fran has complained that she doesn’t comprehend some of the things I’ve expressed in this thread. But rather than blame her or point out her stupidity, I did my best to clarify my meaning.

    My husband has been reading this thread and gave me a gold star for that clarification, @Fran Traubman.
    Given that I had the good sense to marry a man with an outstanding, Mensa level IQ who gives me “the look” when I’m talking or writing “shite”, I’ll take his golden star award as confirmation that I nailed it. 😉

    I’ll have to get back to this very interesting conversation later or tomorrow though. My friend Fran will be delighted when I do I’m sure!

    Places to go, people to see right now.

    Wishing you all a wonderful day!
    Kali.

    • Replies: @JT
  227. Kali says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Surely you mean Skeptical should try stand-up, Fran, as it’s his post you’re responding to?

    An easy mistake… particularly for someone who can’t grasp meanings, even when they’re clearly defined and articulated.

    Maybe you should run my comments past your rabi, let him explain to you how a “good jew” should think about what I assert… you know, let him do your thinking for you as you always have?

    Only sporting with you honey. Don’t take it personally.

    TTFN,
    Kali.

  228. Tony Ryals says: • Website

    Where DO ALL THESE RELIGIOUS NUTS COME FROM ? No wonder we are now in the Late Classic Industrial or ‘anthropogenic era’ and at the point of collapse.These ‘debating’ Judeo-Moslem wingnuts give ‘fiddling while Rome burns’ a whole new meaning.Stern,please get out your gun and shoot us all,then yourself,please ! The orangatans you’re holocausting are a lot smarter than you are.

    Civilization
    by Tony Ryals

    [MORE]

    Around the world the ruins lay,
    Reminders of a better day,
    Modern man he doesn’t heed them,
    Only for tourism do they please him,
    For this he too shall pass away,
    And there shall come another day,
    Rats and roaches shall have their way,
    I dreamt I saw the first creation,
    Of humanity’s earliest civilization,
    From a distance it looked rather nice,
    Rather like a paradise,
    They carved their stones to tell their tales,
    And dug their very first wishing wells,
    They sowed their soils they plowed them deep,
    So their first harvest they could reap,
    And to further increase their population,
    They invented irrrigation,
    They got their seeds from nature’s garden,
    And cut the remainder in the bargain,
    The said to the rest you have no value,
    Uproot yourselves we’re going to plow you,
    So a little of the biosphere disappeared,
    And the civilized said that’s good and cheered,
    We with big brains and hands shall rule the earth,
    We’ll till the soil for all it’s worth,
    We’ll build our temples to our gods,
    And subdue our neighbors those uncivilized clods,
    With our wheat our rye our barley our corn,
    A new man has now been born,
    And of course they also planted beans,
    To complete agricultural man’s proteins,
    And so the population grew,
    From where other animals and plants did to,
    Tigris,Euphrates and the Nile,
    Cradles of civilization for a while,
    The Tigres and Euphrates silted in,
    Somewhere else to begin again,
    Go out and multiply said the man on top,
    Reproduce until you drop,
    And that’s just what they’ve been doing,
    While the biosphere they’re misconstruing,
    Trouble for civilization is still brewing,

    • Replies: @Talha
  229. @Talha

    Dr. Mordechai Kedar is a Islamic scholar. He speaks fluent Arabic. See the video below of him going toe to toe in Arabic with a Sheik.

    [MORE]
    Let me recap my own personal feelings about Al -Aqsa and the Temple Mount.
    If you were to rank holy sites the winged horse to heaven story ranks pretty low against the entire history and location (The Jewish Temple) of the OT and Christian bibles.
    If it were reversed I would give Al-Aqsa back to you with an apology. For me the winged journey is a fable amongst many many more significant occurrences in everyones bibles. It sounds pretty strange that the Prophet rode the Burqa up to heaven. Never mind utterly destroying our Temple Mount. We have to ask permission to go up there. But that is Islam over and over again.

    There are inherent distinctions between Islam and Judaism, regarding fairness and justice. Islam and Judaism maybe hard wired differently, and we may never be able to coexist together, or understand one another. Islam seems completely irrational to me not the belief system, or worshipping, but in its execution and the way they behave to other religions.

    Prior to 1967 when Jordan controlled Jerusalem it burned down every Synagogue and Jewish holy site the could to find to Islamize Jerusalem- Juden free. The Jordanians erected a barb wire fence in front of the Western wall, stoping Jews from praying there. At the tomb of the Patriarchs (the first recorded land transaction in the bible by Abraham) the Muslims put up a Mosque and will not let Jews go further then the steps. Our forefathers buried there, yet we are forbidden to enter the tomb

    There is just no denying that within Islam there exist a desire to wipe out Jewish holiness and replace it with Islamic mastery. Before the eyes of the world your ascension is directly correlated to our descendion. Until Islam and Muslims recognize the holiness of Judaism we will keep going in circles.

    When I can build a Shul (synagogue) in downtown Riyadh, or your hometown in Pakistan (where they chopped off the head of Danny Pearl, filmed it while making him say that he was born a Jew, his father was a Jew… , or the Mumbai massacre of the Rabbi and his wife by Lashkar-e-Taiba or the Taliban attempted murder of a young girl trying to go to school…) Jerusalem is ours and ours alone.

    When you can finally recognize Jewish holiness can we share. Islam has a lot to answer for and make amends. Until then take your winged horse story and the rock with the hoof prints on it and walk softly away. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  230. @Talha

    At the tomb of the Patriarchs (the first recorded land transaction in the bible by Abraham) the Muslims put up a Mosque and will not let Jews go further then the steps. Our forefathers buried there, yet we are forbidden to enter the tomb

    Tried to edit this and got cut off.
    We are forbidden to enter the tomb because the Patriarchs are and were always Muslim. Islam does not consider them Jewish. They are your Patriarchs now not ours.

    And this makes sense to you. For me it is utterly insane.

    • Replies: @Talha
  231. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Dr. Mordechai Kedar is a Islamic scholar.

    No, he’s a Jewish person who has studied Islam. And not that well apparently, why has he made such fundamental mistakes in the article? Which Orthodox Muslim scholars state that the Night Journey was a dream? We have our own voice, we don’t need Jews to speak for us as far as claims of Orthodox doctrine and beliefs.

    If I cited a Muslim academic that claims to be a scholar of Judaism (as a “Jewish scholar” no less) and makes basic-level mistakes, how seriously would you take him?

    For me the winged journey is a fable amongst many many more significant occurrences in everyones bibles.

    Yes, I already acknowledged that you only take miracles in the Bible seriously and dismiss any miraculous events that may have happened to an Ishmaelite prophet as “fables”.

    Never mind utterly destroying our Temple Mount.

    Take that up with the Romans.

    We have to ask permission to go up there. But that is Islam over and over again.

    As I’ve stated before; I see no reason why the entire area can’t be shared in some sort of cooperative agreement between Jews, Muslims and Christians. A time-share can be plotted out and even designated areas during times when there may be mixing. I see no reason why this cannot and should not take place.

    Islam and Judaism maybe hard wired differently

    Well sure, ours is a universal religion and you said yours is the religion of some tribe/race.

    we may never be able to coexist together

    OK – if you want to dismiss 1400 years of shared history, that’s on you. Not surprising though, since you are from a European Jewish background. You never had a shared history with the Muslim world like the Jews of Morocco or Iraq:

    In our hadith books, we have reports like this:
    “Mujahid reported: We were with Abdullah ibn Amr [the Companion] and his servant was preparing a roasted sheep. Abdullah said, ‘Young man, when you are finished, then begin with our Jewish neighbor.’ A man said, ‘Jewish? May Allah correct you!’ Abdullah said, ‘I heard the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, enjoining good treatment of our neighbors so often that we thought he would make them our heirs.’” – reported by Imam Bukhari in his book Adab al-Mufrad on the chapter of “The Neighbor”, under the sub-section of “Jewish Neighbors”

    Your mentality explains exactly why Israel was founded by European Jews from places like Britain and Austria and not the local aspirations of the Jews that had lived in the Middle East for centuries.

    Prior to 1967 when Jordan controlled Jerusalem it burned down every Synagogue and Jewish holy site the could to find to Islamize Jerusalem- Juden free.

    If this is what happened, then the Jordanian government had no right to do this and should compensate for those. That kind of action is completely uacceptable.

    Jerusalem is ours and ours alone.

    Well, I really didn’t expect another answer. So you don’t want to share in some kind of a three-way agreement with the Christians and Muslims like I outlined, fine – we can do it the hard way…not our first rodeo, just takes us a while to saddle up.

    There is just no denying that within Islam there exist a desire to wipe out Jewish holiness and replace it with Islamic mastery.

    Nope – that’s your bunker mentality projecting again. Muslims have had no problems sharing, as the late Iraqi-Jewish journalist Nissim Rejwan pointed out:
    late Nissim Rejwan (Iraqi Jewish historian) pointed out:
    “Interesting in this connection is that as far as Palestine is concerned, the right of Jews to return to live in this small area of land was accepted by all the successive Muslim rulers from the Muslim conquest right to the end of the nineteenth century, when Zionist settlement there became entangled in European Weltpolitik. Gibb and Bowen relate how, when the Jews of Europe ‘learned of the paradisiacal life awaiting them in Turkey’ and many of them set out for Palestine, it was not the Muslims who objected but the [Christian] Franciscans of Jerusalem, ‘who talked the Pope into forbidding the Venetians to carry Jewish passengers to the Holy Land.’ This was not the first time Jerusalem Christians tried to prevail on Muslim rulers to ban Jews from living in the city. A similar attempt was made first when the second Caliph, Omar, entered Jerusalem at the time of its conquest by the Muslim army in the seventh century, and again when Salah ad-Din [Saladin] drove out the Crusaders in the twelfth. On both of these occasions, the Christian patriarch of the city tried to persuade the Muslim conquerors to prevent Jews from living in or (as in the latter case) returning to Jerusalem after they had been expelled from it by the Christians. Both Omar and Salah ad-Din refused to heed their pleas.”
    http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00011671/00001

    or your hometown in Pakistan

    I have zero problems with a synagogue being built in Pakistan. If Jews move there and buy land, they are welcome to build as many synagogues as they like as far as I’m concerned. Obviously they likely do not want to because of the obviously hostile environment, but I’m hopeful once this whole Israel business is behind us, things will return to a more normal state where this can and should be allowed and becomes normal.

    And this makes sense to you.

    Nope.

    For me it is utterly insane.

    Agreed. If that is what’s going on, then it should be changed; Jews should one-hundred percent be able to access the site with some kind of time-share agreement.

    When you can finally recognize Jewish holiness can we share.

    I’ve stated multiple times before how exactly a solid and equitable sharing agreement can occur since I recognize that Jews have a right to access for worship for the sites they deem holy. Seems you’re actually the only one here that doesn’t want to share.

    That’s OK – again, we can do it the hard way.

    This exchange really isn’t getting anywhere, so it’s probably best to leave it here.

    Peace.

  232. @Talha

    I’m no expert, Talha, but fundamentally Islam was a form of socialism-trying to lift up the masses-and often appealed to the most downtrodden populations like low-caste Hindus (This is a grotesque generalization obviously).

    Judaism always involved migrant males intermarrying with the local female upper class. Syrian Jews in Kerala married Brahmin women, for example.

    My point is that Judaism was always a religion of exclusivity while Islam tended to embrace the downtrodden masses.

    Jews were never as popular as Muslims historically. Islam spread far and wide through Arab seafarers while Judaism always remain an urban faith of merchant classes who sometimes intermarried with the local landowning class.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Fran Taubman
  233. @Talha

    I agree to wrap this up, just one more thing. I am not trying to have the last word I thought of this before but time ran out.
    The Al Aqsa was built 50 years after the death of the prophet. Mohammed never set foot in Jerusalem.
    You cannot refute that the Al aqsa was never identified as Jerusalem in the quran. What kind of scholar do you need to be to understand that?

    An analogy would be: If a a cigarette butt found in Mecca was discovered and found it belonged to Moses and we told Muslims to clear out that we were coming to make a shrine there.
    That is the level of holiness this site is. It is just not that big of a deal, comparatively speaking, to cover our holy site. But that is Islam.
    All the Al-quds forces, Hezbollah etc. do not want to share Jerusalem or Israel. They are coming to liberate Jerusalem from the Jews. The Shia quds forces do not recognize the holiness of Jerusalem do the Jews, they choose to challenge it as fable, similar to mine of your winged horse.
    If you were surrounded by Al-Quds forces you wouldn’t you have a bunker mentality?

    One more thing you said that your family is from Pakistan. Are you parents religious or secular?

    • Replies: @Talha
  234. Anon[387] • Disclaimer says:

    .The fear of Hellenist (Greek) Jews is as old as Judaism. There is nothing more frightening for rabbinical Jews than the thought that some of their brethren endorse the ethics of Goyim, subscribe to universalism, peace, harmony and equality.

    That’s funny. It wasn’t Greek Christians that we witnessed pushing Social Marxism over decades, but Jews.

    The Jew loves to blame his victims: painting them with his crimes.

  235. Talha says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    My point is that Judaism was always a religion of exclusivity while Islam tended to embrace the downtrodden masses.

    Sounds about right. The earliest Muslim converts in Makkah were mostly these kinds of people; slaves, ex-slaves, people from insignificant tribes – also, they tended to be youth (as this brings with it a sense of idealism and what not). The pagan Quraysh would often make fun of the Prophet (pbuh) because the “rabble” and, what they considered, “rejects” that was surrounded him. They weren’t laughing after Badr.

    Speaking of upward mobility in combination with Islam and immigration to India, you may be interested in this short story of an African slave that became a powerful king in Deccan region and held his own against the Mughals. Below the MORE tag.

    Peace.

    [MORE]

  236. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Mohammed never set foot in Jerusalem.

    Says you.

    You cannot refute that the Al aqsa was never identified as Jerusalem in the quran.

    Yes, the word “Jerusalem” doesn’t show up in the Qur’an. Makes no difference though because we have plenty of hadith on the matter and al-Aqsa was never defined by any of the Companions or Muslim scholar as anything else. We are not confused about this matter as you are.

    we told Muslims to clear out

    Again take it up with the Romans, they destroyed that temple. Muslims found the spot basically flattened – so they built a mosque there. Now, a person like myself recognizes that Jews have a strong attachment to the site and it should be honored. Which is why this city should not be toyed with as a political tool. I believe it should be de-militarized (except for a local police force) and be independent of all other nations – a city-state to be governed by Jews, Christians and Muslims jointly. One in which they can come up with time-sharing agreements for all of these mutually-concerned holy sites. I have no problem with sharing and if I was in charge of that temple area, that’s what I would submit as a solution.

    All the Al-quds forces, Hezbollah etc. do not want to share Jerusalem or Israel.

    I’m not them. You don’t want to share Jerusalem either – so there goes your virtue-signalling card – REVOKED!

    If you were surrounded by Al-Quds forces you wouldn’t you have a bunker mentality?

    Well yeah, that’s probably why it should have been carved out of Europe in the first place. Jews in Muslims lands weren’t in a bunker mentality until after Israel. It was the European Jews with their besieged mentality that brought it to the region. There was to Jewish/Muslim war prior despite large numbers of Jews living across the Muslim world – that’s simply a fact.

    Are you parents religious or secular?

    Parents are religious – alhamdulillah.

    Again, best to call it quits now – it’s just going in circles.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Incitatus
  237. Anon[321] • Disclaimer says:

    “ Trump retweets fake image of Nancy Pelosi wearing hijab in front of Iranian flaG”
    Fox News
    Let’s think of another name another group another country – Adelshon, AIPAC and Israel.
    Let then photoshop image of Trump with a hooked nose and skull cap against Israeli flag
    Then put a caption stating that Republican is in bed with warmongering neoconservative .

    The hell will break loose .Antisemitism charge will fly from London to Paris to DC and infuse the air we breathe with fear of rising antisemitism .

    • Replies: @KA
  238. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Actually, if the American government in DC couldn’t really control some marginal lands in New Mexico anymore, and some local Mexicans who bought land fairly wanted to separate from the Anglo communities (because they didn’t think they would be treated fairly) as the United States, in general, was breaking up into small pieces, I’d consider that fair and reasonable.

    If the local Anglo communities insisted on ruling them and went to war for that, I’d consider them unreasonable.

    I do acknowledge the 1,400 years of Muslim history in the region – however, the main centers of Muslim civilization and religion were elsewhere, and Palestine was always a marginal land on the edges of the empire. Whereas it is the Jewish heartland and religious center.

    Still, I fully support the continued presence of Muslims living in Israel. I have no desire to expel them and think they add to the cultural richness of the country. The only problem is that they are forming a fifth column and engage in violence against the country. They do not accept Jewish rule. If this could be solved, then nearly all Israelis would have no problem with Muslims living in Israel. I showed you a video once where Israelis expressed appreciation for Arabic culture, and Israelis get along with Druze, Circassians, etc, who are loyal to the state. Judaism has a tradition of allowing non-Jews to live with them and they are supposed to be treated with special kindness. There are lots of laws surrounding this. And even today, Israeli Arabs get affirmative action and are exempt from the Army without having to compensate for this with some other kind of national service (Jewish conscientious objectors have to do national service in other ways), while those who want to volunteer for military service, are welcomed.

    I don’t really mind your attitude that Jews should only have limited autonomy under Muslim rulership – I just wish Muslims in general would be more honest about their motives and not talk about the injustice of the creation of Israel. You are basically inviting Jews to become once again second class citizens in their ancestral land, at the mercy and whim of others, because the glory of Allah demands this. I understand this makes sense in internal Muslim terms, but you cannot expect Jews to seriously entertain the idea. Its almost charming that you consider this a perfectly reasonable and fair invitation – not to be offensive, but it’s a kind of Muslim narcissism, viewing the world from an internal Muslim perspective while being blissfully unaware that others may not consider it so self-evident that Muslims must rule others. The early Zionists were more clear eyed about the local Arabs.

    It is my belief that the first sign of the next moral upgrade in Islam will be to get rid of this need to rule others. I don’t see this idea as core Islam, but rather leftover from the violent paganism of the region, and perhaps an influence from Rome. In any event it is not compatible with a high morality, and the Sufi core of Islam will eventually rise to the top like cream and introduce better ways of thinking. There is a direct relationship between this old desire for conquest and the internal violence and disorder that plagues Islam. But for Islam to concede this it must become more self confident.

    After 1967, Israel immediately offered to negotiate for peace in exchange for the West Bank, but was met with a very strong no from the Arab world. And for many decades after, Israel was still willing to cede most, sometimes nearly all, of that land, and did cede Sinai and Gaza. It even gave the West Bank autonomy, until violence forced them to reconquer it. But those who start wars must surely expect to pay a price, or else there would be no cost to military adventurism. Israel cannot be expected to wait around until Arabs exhaust their attempts to conquer it. It is fast becoming too late for the West Bank.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @anarchyst
    , @Kali
  239. Talha says:
    @Talha

    **There was NO Jewish/Muslim war prior**

  240. JT says: • Website
    @Kali

    Sorry for not speaking Yinzer or Hoi Toider.

    Colorful language isn’t a forte of blowhards. Not saying you are one 😉
    Linking to dictionaries?
    Look up a slightly more involved definition either on M-W or on OED, check “sporting” as well.

    I’m not, nor ever was demanding anything of anyone. Demand what, that you love Jews? That you kiss Jewish tuches? That you grovel?

    I stated that I share Atzmon’s and Stern’s take. Full stop.

    This somehow devolved into observation that gentile hands are no cleaner than Jewish.

    Blatant, batshit, ignorant anti-Semitism couldn’t have been the trigger of this observation.

    Of course not.

    Next time I’ll remember that some don’t read beyond level 6 of the Flesch-Kincaid level.

    • Troll: Kali
    • Replies: @Kali
  241. @AaronB

    Talha is not Arab he is from Pakistan, and more reasonable and probably has no idea how duplicitous the peace process has been. You have to live there to understand what liars the Arabs are. Peace to the Arabs means piece by piece, and it was not until the Gaza pull out that the Israelis and Jews around the globe realized this.

    Before Gaza Israel negotiated in good faith to advance a Palestinian state living along side Israel, and would have done almost anything to make that happen. After Gaza the peace process was viewed as a cottage industry money maker for Palestinian leaders (into the billions) and a Trojan Horse by Israelis.

    The peace process is over and the West bank Palestinians can stay but will have to become citizens of Jordan under some sort of federation, and if there is continued violence will have to leave under compensation.

    I do not think Talha has a clue about the irrational demands of the Palestinians, like the return of 3 generations of Palestinians most of whom are 3rd generation citizens of other countries. The right of return of some 5 million people from an original refugee population of 800,000 is a demand that no other refugee population in the world would make.

    Typically refugees only refers to 1st generation.
    I find Arab Muslims to be highly irrational emotionally driven lunatics. If they were ever allowed to rule there would be blood in the streets.

    What other population would send children to a hot border where the adults are trying to rush into Israel using burning tires and flaming kites every Friday to a right of return march? Then scream when they are fired upon. Ghoulish and sickening, but it helps their PR campaign so that they can say look at how the Jews kill children. Most of the world has become desensitized to Palestinian victimization and sort of tunes out.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @AaronB
    , @KA
  242. anarchyst says:
    @AaronB

    Your statement:

    “Actually, if the American government in DC couldn’t really control some marginal lands in New Mexico anymore, and some local Mexicans who bought land fairly wanted to separate from the Anglo communities (because they didn’t think they would be treated fairly) as the United States, in general, was breaking up into small pieces, I’d consider that fair and reasonable”

    …is already a reality in the united States of America. Please look up Kiryas Joel, New York. This community, among other “jews-only” communities openly flouts “civil-rights”, “fair housing” and other anti-discrimination laws with impunity and gets away with it. If you are not jewish, forget purchasing property, establishing a business, sending your children to the ((jews-only)) “public” schools or establishing residency.

    These same jews utilize taxpayer funds such as welfare and EBT benefits at a much higher rate than that of normal non-jewish citizens in surrounding areas.

    You see, this is a blatant example of the “double standard” that exists here in “the good ol’ USA. “Civil-rights”, “fair housing” and “anti-discrimination” laws are bludgeons used against whites and do not apply to jews who are “chosen”. Jews openly support (and use “lawfare”) to enforce civil-rights laws against whites while doing just the opposite for themselves.

    “Multiculturalism and diversity for thee, but not for me” is the jewish mantra.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  243. KA says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Typically refugees only refers to 1st generation.”
    But holocaust victim hood runs for a couple of generations . Money guides the moral compass and the necessary scientific journey .

  244. AaronB says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I agree. Talha is in no way representative of the Arabic Islam Israel is facing. Talha is more like a mild mannered Hindu – in general, the Islam of Asia, like that of Indonesia, etc, is much milder and influenced by the Buddhism and Hinduism that earlier prevailed in the region.

    Not that Talha doesn’t have his faults on this issue and on Jews in general, but one feels he’d be willing to give up on the demand to rule over Jews, or at least defer it to the distant future.

    The rest of your comment is dismally and depressingly correct. But I an optimistic that these attitudes will change – the self-destructive tendencies of Islam cannot continue indefinitely. At some point they will stop worrying about Israel and began focusing on the horrors that are tearing their world apart.

    I also think Islam is due for some sort of moral upgrade – like the mystic revival in Judaism in the 18th century – and the first sign of this will be, believe it or not, a willingness to live in brotherly peace with Israel. It may not happen in our lifetimes, but the current trend cannot continue

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
  245. KA says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Before leaving Gaza,the inhuman known as settler burned down the green houses in case they became useful to Palestinian. Animal thinking reigned supreme in the Chosen souls of the settlers . Then the government banned the import of paper pencil books and computer . Government also took the furnitures books computers given by European countries and withheld the money generated by taxing Gaza’s, that Government is Zio government.
    Election was held and Hamas won. This led to confusion in US and Israel. Israel addressed it by sealing the borders,closing the ports and reimposing Israeli control over Gaza sky .
    Cheney and Hillary both disapproved the idea of allowing the election . Then the Ziocons planned a coup with the help of the Fatah . Hamas preempted the possibility. Harsh sanctions followed .

    Zio gets upset when they are called Zio . They get upset when they are reminded of what they just have done . They are paranoid ,unfit to be around the rest .
    Zio taking the opportunity of distraction of American president from elections have mounted attacks on Gaza’s civilians repeatedly in 2009 , 2014 and 2018 . The Zio have used infant and mother as human shields . They have burnt the house down and shot the children in front of the family. Zio is Zio. Zio demolished hospitals and nurseries .

    That’s the story . Rest is Jewish Hasabara . Zio shares with other Zio elegantly written pure lies coming from the department of Hasabara .
    Israeli soldiers have fired rubber bullet at Palestinian boys at the eyes and have blinded many .
    It has killed the double amputee Palestinian waving white flag . The amputation was the result of the Zio attack also.
    Zio has flooded Gaza with sewage water . ( Zio should have labeled it as the flow of their Hasabara ,)
    Zio has enticed young kids to kill them near the fence . Zio is Zio, with Zio controlling US,this country is bursting at the seams with social political economic and moral bankruptcy. Zio is Zio. Nothing will change .

    Yaki (PM )Shamir told on record that the peace process was actually taking the rest of Palestine piece by piece while dancing and singing with US regarding 2 state solution.
    Now I see Hasabara has projected the piece to Palestinian. Zio thinking never matures beyond hypocrisy . Does it? Zio thinking doesn’t register the loud announcement by Netanhoo that there won’t be aPalestinian state but blames the Palestinian for lack of progress to peace and Palestinian state while he misses the other announcement that Israel is planing mass expulsion of Palestinian to Jordan .
    Zio is Zio.
    Then the Zio goes to Cheney Hillary and the types and asks for the money spent on killing the Palestinian and creating the largest concentration camp.
    Zio is Zio

    • Agree: Kali
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  246. @anarchyst

    It is not just Jewish only communities. Dearborn Michigan is accused of the same problem.
    The largest mosque in North America with call to prayer.
    I make no judgements just a compare and contrast, that immigrant communities face similar problems.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/aug/04/dearborn-michigan-divided-muslim-american-donald-trump-documentary

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/for-the-first-majority-muslim-us-city-residents-tense-about-its-future/2015/11/21/45d0ea96-8a24-11e5-be39-0034bb576eee_story.htm

    • Replies: @Prajna
  247. geokat62 says:

  248. @KA

    Before leaving Gaza,the inhuman known as settler burned down the green houses in case they became useful to Palestinian. Animal thinking reigned supreme in the Chosen souls of the settlers .

    Such horseshit. Zio Zio Zio.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9331863/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/looters-strip-gaza-greenhouses/#.Xh0bKxd7mL4

    American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash.

    Hate Zios till your nose bleeds, but get your facts straight.

    • Replies: @KA
  249. KA says:
    @Fran Taubman

    1 Cotton is a protégé of neoconservative pundit and Iraq war proponent Bill Kristol

    2 Quiet appointment of Bill Kristol’s son, Joseph Kristol, as Cotton’s legislative director in June,

    3Cotton and Kristol’s relationship goes back to when Cotton was still in the Army and stationed near Washington. “Kristol saw a kindred spirt in Cotton’s aggressive national-security hawkishness and the men developed what Kristol describes as a ‘bond beyond pure policy,’” according to a 2014 profile of Cotton in The Atlantic.
    That bond extended into financial support of Cotton’s candidacy. The Emergency Committee for Israel, a 501c4 group co-chaired by Bill Kistol and social conservative and Christian Zionist Gary Bauer, spent nearly $1 million in dark money to buy television commercials supporting Cotton in his 2014 Senate race.
     
    That spending couldn’t legally be coordinated with Cotton’s campaign. But that doesn’t mean that the first-year senator couldn’t pay back his mentor and dark-money supporter in June 2017 by giving his son, Joe, a prime job in his Senate office.

    https://lobelog.com/tom-cotton-appointed-never-trump

    “ Cotton insists that the Founders were wise not to put too much faith in democracy, because people are inherently selfish, narrow-minded, and impulsive. He defends the idea that the country must be led by a class of intellectually superior officeholders whose ambition sets them above other men.— https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/09/the-maki

    Cotton is in the right company . He is in the perfect pocket. There people think that they are the chosen among the chosen to lord over the rest . Money helps . Cotton will not change any tune sung by Kristol . Kristol agrees with servant Cotton with

    his claim being elite. A moron can do that also, But non-moron sounds more appealing and proves more enduring . Particularly when the world is full of anti Semite

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  250. KA says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Another Zio shit . There good Jews . We are talking of Zionist settlers supported by people like you, IDF,neocons , state of Israel and the mega donors like Haim Saban Adelshon Singer Marcus and people like Cotton,McCain,Rubio,Cruz,and practically everybody in Congress and senate bribed by AIPAC

  251. @KA

    Speaking of moron look in the mirror and hold a sign up saying Zio is Zio,
    record that and then turn the signs upside down so they read OIZ, OIZ
    Record that and send the recording to a big $$$ Zio with big Zio $$$, maybe they will feel
    sorry for you like the special needs person you are and give you some of that AIPAC $$$
    Hey you never know.

    • Troll: Kali
    • Replies: @KA
  252. anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @geokat62

    Mark Potok, is that you?

    Fuck off with that shit! 😛

    I despise the self-righteous duplicitousness of Potok, the “SPLC”, the “ADL” and all those stinking jew orgs with cutesy names that belie their true agendas.

    I bet you’re all giddy getting ready to post the 2020 figure on that chart on your SPLC wall:

    I’d be “all giddy” if you, I, or anyone else could even put such a question to Potok without being smeared as “anti-Semitic” or branded a “conspiracy theorist”.

    Nah, I think Chinese candles would be more fitting!

    Then why post a meme showing a pathetic looking white kid surrounded by happy-clappy black and Muslim kids?

    Excerpt from, Professor believes the Irish will be an ethnic minority in Ireland by 2050:

    Yeah, maybe try reading the article and the linked Irish Times article but without the “Muh White Genocide!!!!” specs on:

    Professor Ferdinand von Prondzynski was referring to an unidentified United Kingdom based research.

    Unpublished UK-based research, which he does not identify, has indicated…

    As for:


    …the Chinese may form the largest ethnic group.

    The population of Ireland is more than 90% white and Northern Ireland is almost 100% white.

    Fewer than 0.5% of the population in Ireland and Northern Ireland is Chinese.

    China’s economy is booming.

    Oh, but a “Professor” “believes” millions of Chinese are going to leave a prosperous China and travel half-way round the world to outnumber whites in Ireland within the next thirty years.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  253. geokat62 says:
    @anon

    Then why post a meme showing a pathetic looking white kid surrounded by happy-clappy black and Muslim kids?

    Because Western countries have been placed on the “chopping block,” as Rabbi David Bar-Hayim so eloquently put it. If the kids next to the ginger kid were purple or green, makes no difference to me. I am an ardent nationalist. I do not subscribe to the globo-homo dystopia pushed by Jewish Supremacist Organizations (JSOs).

    My position is that China should be for the Chinese, Somalia for the Somalis, Vietnam for the Vietnamese, and European nations for the native Europeans who inhabit those lands for millennia.

    I even go so far as to say that European-derived countries that were once super-majority European for centuries, should have their former super-majority European status restored. I do not accept the ADL’s Big Lie #1, Diversity Is Our Greatest Strength and it being implemented by slowly boiling the frog through mass immigration and mass miscegenation.

    As Barbara Lerner Spectre disclosed, JSOs are leading this transformation to a multicultural mode. The people never asked for this. It was not sought from the bottom. It was imposed from the top. I reject this dystopian future, built on the lie that there are no group differences. If they truly believed in diversity they would leave the kaleidoscope of countries alone, rather than promoting globing-homo, where everything gets blended into one blob.

    If the ADL was so sincere about diversity being a strength, why don’t they push open borders and miscegenation for the Jewish state? Could they be deceiving The Dumb Goyim? Yahweh forbid!

    • Agree: mark green
  254. Kali says:
    @JT

    What does “JT” stand for, JT?
    Could it be “Jew Troll” by any chance?

    I ask because:

    JT turns up trolling for responses.

    JT continues trolling by claiming innocense and victimhood when his words are reflected back to him.

    JT blames “anti-semitism” for honest responses and reactions to his trollish/deliberate provocations.

    JT attempts to claim interlectual superiority whilst continuing to ignore the substance of the accusation that JT chose very specific trigger-words in order to get the attention and rancour of non-jews.
    (Poor little Jew Troll got called out on his shitty arrogant attitude and cried “anti-semite”… “It’s a trick. We always use it”.)

    Ergo, JT is Jew Troll.

    As previously mentioned, JT is full of shit.

    Kali.

    • Replies: @anon
  255. Kali says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You can download this on your computer. The movie is called Patterns of Evidence
    https://answersingenesis.org/reviews/movies/movie-review-patterns-of-evidence-exodus/

    I would absolutely love to Fran! I’m sure it’s worth watching if only to feed into ny anti-sham-etic world-view. 😉

    Sadly we have very limited internet here on the mountain. But I will ask a friend to download it for me and grab the file from him next time he visits.

    Can’t wait!! 😀

    Ashkenazi Jews are Jews that migrated from Israel to Rome and then Europe after the fall of the Jewish temple in 70 AD.

    Lie to yourself as much as you like Fran, but understand that your hasbrist lies don’t change the historic facts:

    Hope of Israel Ministries (Ecclesia of YEHOVAH):

    The Khazar Kingdom’s Conversion to Judaism

    With the overwhelming evidence that the modern Ashkenazi Jewish population is of Khazar origin, this would clearly indicate that “their ancestors came not from the Jordan but from the Volga, not from Canaan but from the Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race; and that genetically they are more closely related to the Hun, Uigur and Magyar tribes than to the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” This conclusion would then logically render the epithet “anti-Semitism” void of any meaning!

    by HOIM Staff

    “Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews [Israelites] and are not, but lie — indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you (Revelation 3:9).”

    According to Benjamin Freedman the Khazars’ conversion to Judaism was first precipitated by their monarch’s abhorrence of the moral climate into which his kingdom had descended. Freedman has claimed — and other historians confirmed — that the “primitive” Khazars engaged in extremely immoral forms of religious practices, among them phallic worship. Animal sacrifices were also included in their rites.
    […]

    https://www.hope-of-israel.org/KhazarConversion.html

    Honest “jewish” scholarship on the matter tracing the documented history of the Khazars/Ashkanazis.

    You are on your own GF. This is just shear shite and makes no sense as an observation of thought and or idea. It is not written in my language which is English.

    It’s not my prose you’re having difficulty with, young Fran, but the concept I’m articulating.

    It’s clear that your very limited, sham- etic world-view and your ethnocentric notions of spirituality preclude you from even grasping the meaning of my very clearly writen assertions. (GF, I have an A* GCSE in English Language I’ll have you know. A*, bitch! – Yeah, read it and weep. LoL)

    [I doubt you’ll get the humour in the above paragraph, but those who know that GCSE is the lowest qualification in the British “education” system may chuckle.]

    You say you gain spuritual enlightenment from your religious practices whilst its clear that you have no idea what spiritual enlightenment is. (I’d recomend Oshos’ books on the way of the Buddha, or certain translations of the Tao te Ching, Richard Bachs’ Jonathan Livingston Seagul…. and many, many more, if you’re interested in finding out, but I doubt you are.)

    I agree that it’s time to move on now though.

    You and AaronB have made some outragious comments here which I’ll be addressing shortly.

    Kali.

  256. KA says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Zio says there is no Zio. Only peace ,progress,and love and coexistence , no Zio. This is his Oslo process of covertly ushering the world into the cesspool of constant Zio activity imposed by WZO and ZOA,

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  257. anon[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kali

    What does “JT” stand for, JT?
    Could it be “Jew Troll” by any chance?

    I ask because:

    JT turns up trolling for responses.

    JT continues trolling by claiming innocense and victimhood when his words are reflected back to him.

    JT blames “anti-semitism” for honest responses and reactions to his trollish/deliberate provocations.

    JT attempts to claim interlectual superiority whilst continuing to ignore the substance of the accusation that JT chose very specific trigger-words in order to get the attention and rancour of non-jews.
    (Poor little Jew Troll got called out on his shitty arrogant attitude and cried “anti-semite”… “It’s a trick. We always use it”.)

    Ergo, JT is Jew Troll.

    As previously mentioned, JT is full of shit.

    Kali.

    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    This takedown is pure genius and needs a gold frame around it! 😃

    • LOL: Kali
  258. Kali says:
    @AaronB

    Still, I fully support the continued presence of Muslims living in Israel. I have no desire to expel them and think they add to the cultural richness of the country.

    Cultural richness apropriated by “jewish” invaders who, through sheer terror, murder and brutality, stole the homeland of the Palestinian people, demolished their homes and farms, and made refugees of them.

    Those who managed to escape this ethnic cleansing, and remain in their homeland, if not their actual homes, you describe as fifth columnists (in their own land!) –

    The only problem is that they are forming a fifth column and engage in violence against the country. They do not accept Jewish rule

    – for daring to not to accept the criminal, genocidal occupation of THEIR land, and to reject “jewish” rule!

    But why should they accept “jewish rule”?
    Because you claim some historic/biblical connection to the land? – Over 90% of “jewish” collonisers there are descended from Khazars and have ZERO historic conection to the land.

    Judaism is a vile, inhuman, brutal religion of domination by deception. It’s practitiiners routinely rationalise its brutality and invert truth to their own ends.

    Your twisted deceptions and manipulations are becoming more apparent to the rest of the world every day. Thanks, in no small part, to commenters like you and Fran and your jaw-dropping dishonesty.

    If this could be solved, then nearly all Israelis would have no problem with Muslims living in Israel

    Let me correct that invertion:

    It is not “israel”, it is, in fact Palestine, under occupation by a self-elevated “jewish” sect: i.e. Ashkanazi “zionists”.

    “Jewish” rule over occupied Palestine is unacceptable to Palestinians (be they Muslim, Christian, Jewish or otherwise (bare in mind that the jewish Palestinians rejected the idea of the imposition of a “jewish state” on Palestine when it was first suggested) precicely because jewish brutality was legendary throughout the “muslim” world and because the Saphadic jews who lived there recognised that their peaceful co-existance with their non-jewish nieghbours would be shattered by such a venture.

    All of their fears regarding the establishment of “israel” have been shown to be justified.

    Your disingenuous attempt to blame the occupied and terrorised victims of “jewish rule” for the hidious mess which “israel” has created is truly nausiating.

    I just wish “jews” in general would be more honest about their motives and […] talk about the injustice of the creation of Israel.

    Fixed that for ya!

    not to be offensive, but it’s a kind of “jewish” narcissism, viewing the world from an internal “jewish” perspective while being blissfully unaware that others may not consider it so self-evident that “jews” must rule

    And that.

    It is my belief that the first sign of the next moral upgrade in judaism will be to get rid of this need to rule others. I

    And that!

    How many more invertions must be corrected?

    Now, I don’t know wherher your assertions regarding Islam and Muslims are correct. I simply have never read-up on the subject, but I do know that the corrections I’ve made in the above snipets stand up to scrutiny.

    Projecting your own “jewish” inadequacies onto others is yet another inherrant weakness of judaism, it would seem.

    After 1967, Israel immediately offered to negotiate for peace in exchange for the West Bank, but was met with a very strong no from the Arab world.

    You speak as if “israel” was an honest and reasonable in regards to its negotiations with Palestine!

    Yet history tells a very different story. One of duplicitousness and deception premised on the signing of the Oslo Accord which “israel” had no intention of implementing and has kept the world blindsided by the pretence of a peace process and the promise of a 2 state solution!

    As for the rest of your dishonest drivel, the facts on the ground speak for themselves.

    That Fran Taubman agrees with you and you with her speaks to your shared “zionist” delusion, and your shared hasbrist talking-point instruction book.

    If it weren’s so tragic (for the people of Palestine – and Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Libia, Iraq… ) it would be funny.

    Sadly your “zionist” delusion is creating tensions all across the region and beyond, and making the world a very dangerous place, even as it continues to destroy any hope of peace in the ME.

    Until “jews” can learn to be honest and reasonable how can we hope to move forward?

    Kali.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  259. @KA

    You hate Jews period. Stop your bulls hit lies. Just hate Jews and shut up. I would respect you more.

    • Replies: @Kali
    , @KA
    , @Anon
  260. Skeptikal says:
    @AaronB

    “We are all interconnected – but some people have not yet realized this, so they hate.

    I hope one day you educate yourself on Judaism and realize your mistake, even if its far in the future. And even if you don’t, I bear you no ill will and realize you are acting our of ignorance”

    Oh, so holier than thou.
    “I am above it all, and above—gasp— hate.”
    How’s about that sneaky insertion and projection of “hate” onto me.
    I made an objective statement, no mention of “hate,” but since it doesn’t support the Zionist narrative, it is “hate” and I am a poor soul suffering from feeling “hate.”

    Bollocks, you hateful self-righteous prig.

    If you are so filled with love and spiritually advanced because of your religious belief and practice, get your butt out to the Gaza protest and park it between a Palestinian medic or child and IDF bullets.

  261. Skeptikal says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “The ottoman empire was an empire that ruled palatine. It was apartheid on steroids. The citizens could not vote for their leaders. All the land was owned by the Turks. Hilarious.”

    No, it is you who are “hilarious” in your pathetic inversion of history and your ludicrous ahistorical statement about “voting.”

    Worse than hilarious, though: You are an ungrateful wretch.

    The Ottoman Empire gave refuge to Jews throughout its history.

    The Jews voted with their feet when they sought, and found, refuge in the Ottoman Empire. Of course many Jewish communities were already in place before the Ottoman Turks came along and conquered additional territories. And the Ottomans left those Jewish communities where they were, and even gave the Jews “jobs.” Of course the Jews still thought they should be Jews first. There are Christian Turks, Muslim Turks, but there are no Jewish Turks.

    You are an ignoramus, sitting pretty in a privileged, rich enclave on Shelter Island, bloviating—27/7, it seems.

    I’ll say it again: You are an ungrateful, ignorant wretch,

  262. Kali says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Certainly one of you if full of hate Fran,

    Otherwise you would not have ability to project such vanality onto another.

    Whilst you are projecting and expressing your pointless hate onto KA …

    ..! KA is expressing the perfectly reasonable anger he feels towards a group of supreamacist European Khabbalists, who have lied, cheated, schemed, blackmailed, bought and slaughted their way onto the land of Palestine, (to which he obviously has a close connection) and claimed it for themselves, and from where they have lied cheated blackmailed killed and slaughted to extend their pressence in that region.

    Hate is pure vanity, to project your hate onto another is pure vanity.

    To express ones rightous anger and indignation is to express a legitimate emotion, as is a sincere mistrust born of experience.

    Kali.

  263. AaronB says:
    @Kali

    If you cannot see anything good in your opponent, then you are looking at the world from an entirely egocentric perspective.

    When you start seeing that your opponent has his good points too, and has a perspective from which he sees things, you’ve taken the first step out of ignorance.

    If you’re able to see something good and beautiful about Judaism, and something good about Israel and its perspective, then maybe we would be able to have a conversation.

    But if you’re just telling me Judaism and Israel are completely bad, then I just don’t know what there is to discuss.

    • Replies: @Kali
    , @Frankk
  264. KA says:
    @Fran Taubman

    A rather shocked Abba Eban, the former Labor Party Foreign Minister, responded: “The picture that emerges is of an Israel wantonly inflicting every possible measure of death and anguish on civilian populations in a mood reminiscent of regimes which neither Mr. Begin nor I would dare to mention by name.” However, while Eban complained that Begin’s charge helped “Arab propaganda,” he did not contest Begin’s facts. On the contrary, he defended Israel’s earlier attacks on civilians on the grounds that unlike the 1981 case, “there was [then] a rational prospect, ultimately fulfilled, that afflicted population would exert pressure for the cessation of hostilities.”
    [Eban’s response, “Morality and Warfare,” was published in the Jerusalem Post, August 16, 1981. ]
    
https://mondoweiss.net/2015/04/terrorism-palestinian-argument/

    Was Abba Eban also? No . He thought it was Nazi like behavior but justified . I don’t think it was or is justified.

  265. Anon[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You hate Jews period. Stop your bulls hit lies. Just hate Jews and shut up. I would respect you more.

    And Jews hate non-Jews, period. Per your texts and your modern Rabbinical statements. How should that not engender return hatred? What’s your point, exactly? Jews threaten our existence, and so there is no greater justifiable hate.

    Depart for your own nation if you do not want to be around those who hate you. There has been enough sacrificed for the existence of that nation that it is disrespectful as well as nonsensical that you do not go. The solution to your complaint is simple.

  266. Dear Gilad
    I was wondering if you could email my last post that you censored back to me so I could post it on my blog.I’m sorry if my ‘black humor’ offended thee.

    Also is this mention of ‘Jonathon Stern’ from ‘The Guardian’ in 2002 the same as your ‘Yonatan
    Stern’ ? It seems to be because you mentioned that he and his parents seemed to prefer stealing Palestinian land rather than living within the formerly internationally accepted borders of Israel.
    Funny you mention or he does, that Charlotesville inspired him to teach terrorist tactics to Jews in America.The driver who plowed down the liberal anti-racist protesters.in Charlottesville was in in the grandson of a Jew so he was in part a Jewish terrorist ! Playing big IDF man in America must be fun and profitable for him as well

    Note the Guardian mention of ‘Jonathan Stern’ in Hebron in 2002 says Israel tried to claim its dead soldiers were Israeli civilians in order to ‘save face’ after being defeated by a rag tag Palestinian resistance and probably gain international sympathy for its’ usual barbaric activities.Nineteen year old Yonatan Stern must have been quite pleased that thanks to the Israeli and U.S.Zionist false flag that occured in New York and the Pentagon a short time earlier on September 11,2001 that far from him fighting for America it was Americans who were suckered into fighting for him and his Zionist apartheid state Isra-hell.
    As for Monsey,NY which seems to have spiked his Jewish terrorkist training business – that place seems to have plenty of its own dirty laundry with Jews themselves at each others jugulars.

    https://gilad.online/writings/2018/11/25/west-bank-settler-and-american-patriot

    West Bank Settler and American Patriot by Gilad Atzmon

    In a recent Israeli TV interview, Yonatan explained that he was motivated to form an Israeli military training school in America by the March in Charlottesville. The chants of “Jews won’t replace us” reminded him of the rise of the Nazis. But he doesn’t like the leftists either.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/charlottesville-white-supremacist-james-alex-fields-jr-mercy-heather-heyer-sentencing-a8970791.html

    White supremacist who killed woman after driving car into Charlottesville protesters begs judge to show him ‘mercy’……The document did reveal he was raised by a paraplegic single mother and suffered “trauma” by growing up knowing his Jewish grandfather had murdered his grandmother before committing suicide……….

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/17/israel
    TheGuardian 17 Nov 2002

    Israeli forces last night seized the divided city of Hebron and rounded up blindfolded Palestinian suspects after suffering one of their biggest military losses in the current unrest during a brutal ambush last Friday.
    Twelve Israeli soldiers and security guards were killed in an attack by at least three members of Islamic Jihad. Fifteen were wounded.

    Last night armoured vehicles were reportedly pouring into Hebron from all directions to reinforce the hunt for those who planned the attack.

    Yesterday the Israeli Defence Force contradicted initial reports given by the Foreign Ministry that Islamic Jihad had attacked settlers as they returned from praying at the Tomb of the Patriarchs, a Jewish holy site, and instead confirmed that the casualties had been suffered by soldiers or armed security guards……..

    Jonathan Stern, 19, an off-duty soldier and resident of Kiryat Arba, said that he rushed to the scene when he heard shooting. ‘I knew the terrorists were hiding in the trees so I took cover and emptied a magazine in their direction. More and more troops arrived and then I saw the bodies coming out.’

    Stern said the settlers would probably carry out their own reprisals against the Palestinians. ‘We have never had a terrorist attack of this magnitude. It is very likely that the settlers will do something to right this wrong. The Palestinians have every reason to worry about what the settlers will do. Also we will now treat Palestinians as an automatic enemy and not a potential enemy. We will change the rules to shoot any Palestinian if they come anywhere near our security fences.’…..

  267. Talha says:
    @Tony Ryals

    These ‘debating’ Judeo-Moslem wingnuts

    This is exactly the problem. The Europeans stuck their nose where they shouldn’t have and now have to deal with the consequences; including dealing with Jews and Muslims and their squabbles.

    You ever hear about Westerners concerned about what Jews and Muslims were up to, say before the late 1800’s? No? Because they didn’t give a damn.

    I’d love for the West to step back completely and let Jews and Muslims handle the situation.

    Is that going to happen any time soon? No? OK, well deal with the consequences of continuous Western policies of meddling in the Middle East.

    Peace.

    [MORE]

    The Conqueror Worm
    BY EDGAR ALLAN POE
    Lo! ’t is a gala night
    Within the lonesome latter years!
    An angel throng, bewinged, bedight
    In veils, and drowned in tears,
    Sit in a theatre, to see
    A play of hopes and fears,
    While the orchestra breathes fitfully
    The music of the spheres.

    Mimes, in the form of God on high,
    Mutter and mumble low,
    And hither and thither fly—
    Mere puppets they, who come and go
    At bidding of vast formless things
    That shift the scenery to and fro,
    Flapping from out their Condor wings
    Invisible Wo!

    That motley drama—oh, be sure
    It shall not be forgot!
    With its Phantom chased for evermore
    By a crowd that seize it not,
    Through a circle that ever returneth in
    To the self-same spot,
    And much of Madness, and more of Sin,
    And Horror the soul of the plot.

    But see, amid the mimic rout,
    A crawling shape intrude!
    A blood-red thing that writhes from out
    The scenic solitude!
    It writhes!—it writhes!—with mortal pangs
    The mimes become its food,
    And seraphs sob at vermin fangs
    In human gore imbued.

    Out—out are the lights—out all!
    And, over each quivering form,
    The curtain, a funeral pall,
    Comes down with the rush of a storm,
    While the angels, all pallid and wan,
    Uprising, unveiling, affirm
    That the play is the tragedy, “Man,”
    And its hero, the Conqueror Worm.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @Tony Ryals
  268. @Talha

    Common Talha there are plenty of Muslims fighting Muslims can’t blame that on Europeans or Jews.

    • Replies: @Talha
  269. Incitatus says:
    @Talha

    “Mohammed never set foot in Jerusalem.”
    “Says you” [Fran Taubman]

    Hi Gold-star (sorry it’s not gold-crescent) Talha.

    Big question. Did Mohammed (pbuh) set foot in Jerusalem? Give us a hint. Dates, sources, etc.

    All the best.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Fran Taubman
  270. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Who said I’m blaming them for every bit of fighting among Muslims – I’d like the West to completely disengage as of yesterday and let the locals handle things themselves.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  271. Talha says:
    @Incitatus

    Did Mohammed (pbuh) set foot in Jerusalem?

    Yes. On the Night Journey called Isra and Miraj.

    Dates, sources, etc.

    No exact dates – the narrative is in the Qur’an and hadith. But I certainly don’t expect non-Muslims to take those as sources; it’s only Muslims that do for obvious epistemic reasons.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  272. @Talha

    Thanks for pointing out my error in falsely accusing Gilad of censorship.I guess I simply missed
    seeing my own post in the wave of religious debate between Fran and yourself.I don’t really care
    what one’s religion or lack thereof is but watching all those bombs dropped on innocent Iraqis after 9/11 SORT OF TORE ME TO SHREDS.Also knowing the U.S. Zionist pseudo Christians and petroleum traffickers willfully destroyed Aramaic speaking Christians who had long been protected by Saddam Hussein were made virtually extinct and Tariq Aziz condemed to an anonymous long slow death under the U.S. dictated ‘Shia democracy’.Then the ‘fair trial’ and the hanging of Saddam.And of course it was George Herbert Walker Bush and Israel who provided the arms and mustard gas banned since WWI for them to slaughter one another.And on and on.

    As for Fran Taubman she’s not even Jewish,just a brainwashed white woman who should know better.

    Thanks for the Poe Poetry.I recommend Percy Shelley’s ‘Mask of Anarchy’ but I also like this gem hidden away in his very long poem ‘Revolt of Islam’.

    [MORE]

    XXXI.
    And Oromaze, Joshua, and Mahomet,
    Moses, and Buddh, Zerdusht, and Brahm, and Foh,
    A tumult of strange names, which never met
    Before, as watchwords of a single woe,
    Arose; each raging votary ‘gan to throw
    Aloft his armèd hands, and each did howl
    ‘Our God alone is God!’ and slaughter now
    Would have gone forth, when from beneath a cowl
    A voice came forth which pierced like ice through every soul.

    XXXII.
    ‘T was an Iberian Priest from whom it came,
    A zealous man, who led the legioned West,
    With words which faith and pride had steeped in flame,
    To quell the unbelievers; a dire guest
    Even to his friends was he, for in his breast
    Did hate and guile lie watchful, intertwined,
    Twin serpents in one deep and winding nest;
    He loathed all faith beside his own, and pined
    To wreak his fear of Heaven in vengeance on mankind.

    XXXIII.
    But more he loathed and hated the clear light
    Of wisdom and free thought, and more did fear,
    Lest, kindled once, its beams might pierce the night,
    Even where his Idol stood; for far and near
    Did many a heart in Europe leap to hear
    That faith and tyranny were trampled down,—
    Many a pale victim, doomed for truth to share
    The murderer’s cell, or see with helpless groan
    The Priests his children drag for slaves to serve their own.

    XXXIV.
    He dared not kill the infidels with fire
    Or steel, in Europe; the slow agonies
    Of legal torture mocked his keen desire;
    So he made truce with those who did despise
    The expiation and the sacrifice,
    That, though detested, Islam’s kindred creed
    Might crush for him those deadlier enemies;
    For fear of God did in his bosom breed
    A jealous hate of man, an unreposing need.

    XXXV.
    ‘Peace! Peace!’ he cried, ‘when we are dead, the Day
    Of Judgment comes, and all shall surely know
    Whose God is God; each fearfully shall pay
    The errors of his faith in endless woe!
    But there is sent a mortal vengeance now
    On earth, because an impious race had spurned
    Him whom we all adore,—a subtle foe,
    By whom for ye this dread reward was earned,
    And kingly thrones, which rest on faith, nigh overturned……

  273. @Talha

    I am not saying you are and you are a really nice man.
    At times you act like before Israel it was all hunky dory over there. First the Jews were second class citizens (there was a special tax for them). They could not hold government positions, and as citizens they were thrown out with nothing but the shirts on their backs.
    So talk about apartheid. Ottoman times for Arabs were bleak. Remember the Arab revolt.
    It has always been a mess over there Talha. Always.

    You really do not understand the mindset of Arabs. People I know were involved in negotiations. You think I have a bunker mentality. Far from it. When I was in Israel before Camp David failed. I used to dream of Palestinian children and Jewish children going to camps together and I wanted to be a counselor. I was so excited and looked forward to it so much before it all fell apart.

    This is what a negotiation might look like.
    If you offered the Arabs 50 bars of chocolate in exchange for 1 stick of old licorice and you pointed out that each bar of chocolate was wrapped with gold wrappers.

    The Arabs will tell you they want the licorice and the chocolate.
    Not only that they want to chop of your hand for even thinking that you wanted the licorice in exchange.
    Not only to you walk away with nothing you are missing a hand. The Arabs are complete lunatics.
    Not the people but their leaders.

    You mention when the Palestinians have indepence you will think about Israel.
    Why before 1967 when they lost the West bank and Jerusalem why did not the Palestinians declare themselves an state? In 1948 same thing.

    • Replies: @Talha
  274. @Incitatus

    Mohammed was never there consciously in person. He did talk to anyone and no witnesses spoke to him. It was not a recorded visit with meetings and friends.

    He went to Jerusalem fell asleep and Gabriel gave him the winged horse and he descended to heaven. It is not a question of believing the story as a miracle. I believe in miracles. But this seems far fetched for even a miracle. Usually God comes down we do not go up. The air is pretty thin up there. Not a simple miracle like the burning bush, or Jesus walking on water or rising from the dead where people witnessed the miracle in person.

    The qur’an says that Mohammed traveled from the nearest mosque Mecca to the furthest Mosque Al Aqsa (the furthest). The location which is never given in the verses of the qu’ran.

    Al Aqsa was not located until 50 years after Mohammed’s death. One of the Caliphs of the Umayed dynasty built the Al-Aqsa mosque. Not one witnessed the ride contemporaneously. No mosque existed there during Mohammed’s life.

    When Moses went up to Mt. Sinai to receive the Torah the entire nation of 2 million witnessed it. They did a census. A shekel for each adult and 1/2 for children. He also came back down with a bad sunburn.

    Adding insult the Al Aqsa sits on a 800 year Jewish dynasty (the temple mount) where Jesus turned the money tray over, and is the central place of all Jewish/ Christian history. So much history in that one place. Seriously winged horse to heaven. Talk about important times.
    Seems more like a theft to me.

    And despite what Talha says, there was plenty of controversy in the Hadith. Not all the Calphs and religious scholars believed that Al Aqsa would be in Jerusalem. Since Mohammed never prayed there when he was alive. Those Muslims believed that the furthest mosque would be a little closer to the nearest mosque, near Mecca.

    The story from a Jewish perspective, with all due respect.

    • Replies: @Talha
  275. @Jeff Stryker

    My point is that Judaism was always a religion of exclusivity while Islam tended to embrace the downtrodden masses.

    This is a misrepresentation. It is not that Judaism is an exclusive religion. Anyone can convert and become a Jew. All are welcome. It is not designed for the elite.
    Studying the Torah requires literacy, which 2500 years ago was atypical.

    It established a history of literacy and comprehension early early on. So when Jews left Israel and traveled to Rome and Europe they were not the top or exclusive, it was just they could read and write.
    When housed alongside of the peasants and poor, they seemed exclusive because of their literacy, which allowed them to advance to the middle class quickly. I think it created a lot of jealousy amongst the peasants. Russia’s peasant class is still illiterate.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  276. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    And despite what Talha says, there was plenty of controversy in the Hadith. Not all the Calphs and religious scholars believed that Al Aqsa would be in Jerusalem. Since Mohammed never prayed there when he was alive. Those Muslims believed that the furthest mosque would be a little closer to the nearest mosque, near Mecca.

    You keep saying the same things over and over without citing a single Muslim source on the matter. Which is fine because “the story from a Jewish perspective” has absolutely zero weight in our religion just as I suspect “the story from a Muslim perspective” has zero weight when you evaluate your own religious claims.

    Trust me, the only ones confused about the matter are Jews.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  277. @Fran Taubman

    True, but Muslims and Evangelical Christians logically seek out the most downtrodden and disenfranchised seeking another system so to speak. Disenfranchised African-Americans usually convert to Islam while Evangelical Christianity is generally more often associated with poor rural whites than Catholicism.

    Most converts to Judaism probably intrinsically come from more privileged backgrounds.

    Take Trump’s daughter.

  278. Prajna says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Didn’t Henry Ford write a few newspaper articles for the Dearborn Independent?

  279. Kali says:
    @AaronB

    AaronB,

    You present the thing which you call “israel” as if it were a living, sentient being. It is not. It is the physical manifestation, through theft, terror, murder, lies and deceptions, of an ideiagy, albeit a religious one.

    You present that (religious) ideogy as if it were a living, sentient being. It is not. It is an idea, a notiotion of “chosenness” by “god” no less(!) which has been, and continues to be, he cause of suffering on an unimaginable scale, for “jews” and “non-jews” alike.

    And whilst I have No Doubt whatsoever that you, Fran, and every other follower of that ideology have many good qualities, which may even include compassion, saddly that ideology you follow like a talisman precludes you from opening your eyes and your hearts to the suffering of those you, AaronB, insist should be happy to be ruled by “jews”.

    The possition that you and Fran take is one that I personally find shocking.

    The level of self-deception (or is it deliberate cynicism aimed at giving yourselves a degree of camiflage?) that must go in to ignoring the reality of the situation caused by the imposition of “israel” on Palestine and beyond is astonishing.

    And the relentlessness with which you pursue your cause of white-washings “israeli” crimes against humanity is sickening.

    Do you imagine that the ideology you revere and follow, “judaism”, is a real thing? It is not. And it can be dropped as easily as any other idea.

    Stop justifying slaughter and theft in defence of an ideoligy and we will have a lot more to talk about.

    Kali

  280. @Prajna

    You mean about the call to prayers over the old speakers waking him up?

    • Replies: @Prajna
  281. @Prajna

    Thus, if the premises for the story of Isra’ wal-Mi‘raj were in Jerusalem, then the whole story has to be interpreted within the context of Israel and Torah. This framing is supported by the contents of Muhammad’s vision, where he claimed to have met and talked with Israeli patriarchs and prophets, i.e. the heroes of the most popular stories from Bible.

    So where does it leave Muslims, who try to take the place away from Jews and strip away its connection to Torah? Basically, if you remove Israel, and you remove Torah, here is what remains:

    ³) According to Sahih al-Bukhari 3366 (4.60.45) and 3425, Muhammad gave the construction date of his al-Aqsa forty years after the construction of al-Haram in Makkah, which he said on separate occassion to have been built by Abraham and Ishmael. (2:127) While he never stated who built the al-Aqsa, if we are going to assume al-Aqsa refers to the Jewish Holy Temple, the timeline of his claim is in total contradiction with the Torah, considering that King Solomon was born ~1000 years after Abraham died. Islamic scholars attempt to justify this discrepancy by saying Solomon’s temple was a different construct alltogether.

  282. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Uh hunh. Yest another article by some non-Muslim guy who is confused about our source texts doesn’t cite ONE Muslim scholar.

    What part of “bring proof from our scholars” is incomprehensible to you?

    I find it funny that you are constantly going on about how people should stop trying to tell Jews what their Torah and Talmud state while turning around and telling me what my religion states. Funny, but not surprising though for a person with the mentality of “Jerusalem is ours alone and you need to go back to Arabia”.

    Peace.

  283. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    At times you act like before Israel it was all hunky dory over there.

    Better than afterwards.

    First the Jews were second class citizens (there was a special tax for them).

    Yes along with all other non-Muslims, they didn’t do any of the fighting over all those centuries. That is what that tax was; specifically on military-age males, exemption from having to fight to defend that territory. Can’t expect that for free.

    They could not hold government positions

    Nonsense – look up the powerful Farhi clan of the Jews. Jews did often hold important positions of power.

    as citizens they were thrown out with nothing but the shirts on their backs.

    Correct – after Israel came about. Our secular ethno-nationalists are at least as responsible for the stupidity involved in the mess as yours are.

    Remember the Arab revolt.

    Sure, the Arab elites like the Husseins were lured by the promise of a massive Arab state over which they would rule. They were promptly stabbed in the back by the British, serves them right. This is the mess that we are still dealing with of course.

    The Arabs will tell you they want the licorice and the chocolate.

    Uh hunh – and here you are arguing that; we want all of Jerusalem – get out, we are keeping all of the West Bank, we are keeping all of Golan – we get everything we want – and then we also demand you restore diplomatic relations with us. So I don’t see how you have a leg to stand on in the argument.

    Why before 1967 when they lost the West bank and Jerusalem why did not the Palestinians declare themselves an state?

    Don’t know.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  284. @Talha

    Look all anyone is saying is that Miracles have rules and context. Anyone can make up anything.
    You have to have witness and proof of outcome.
    Honestly I can tell you are you are at a high spiritual level and are a very refined man.
    At a higher level then me, I have much more of an edge then you.
    To me the temple mount is ours and I am appealing to you rationally like what is the proof other then someone said it.
    Is that it.
    I am not trying to give you a hard time. We can end this. You go and try to negotiate with the Arabs and call me back.

    Yes along with all other non-Muslims, they didn’t do any of the fighting over all those centuries. That is what that tax was; specifically on military-age males, exemption from having to fight to defend that territory. Can’t expect that for free.

    I did not know that re military service makes sense. Thanks
    All the Sephardim and Mizrahi Jews I know would not want to go back.
    Read my friends book. Her father never got over being thrown out of Egypt. He wept.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  285. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You have to have witness and proof of outcome.

    Gods’ emissaries do not lie. Once you have established that you believe he is God’s emissary by all available signs, you do not nitpick the details. If he said he went to Jerusalem and came back (on a horse or a large beetle or a broken VW van) – that’s what happened. The Qur’an also stated that Jesus (pbuh) spoke as a baby – the Bible has no record of it; irrelevant. It is a question of epistemology; you don’t accept him (or anyone outside Bani Israel) as a prophet, it therefore follows that anything he states is suspect and more likely false. It’s that simple.

    Anyone can make up anything.

    He’s not anyone. The religion he expounded upon is set to become the one followed by the largest numbers of human beings on the planet possibly within my lifetime. He told a small coalition of tribe of Arabs in Madinah – that were being besieged at the time – that they would conquer the Byzantines and Persia. No one would have thought that possible – it’s one of the greatest plot twists in human history.

    I did not know that re military service makes sense. Thanks

    No problem. Exemptions were made for tougher non-Muslim peoples like the Turkic Jarajima who were willing to serve as border scouts and frontier forces in lieu of jizyah. Bakers, cobblers and scribes who were liabilities on the battlefield weren’t accorded the same.

    Her father never got over being thrown out of Egypt. He wept.

    I agree that this is a tragedy and part of the overall problem. Thousands of peaceful Jews across the Middle East that had nothing to do with Israel (and were often themselves the descendants of Jews kicked out of Europe in prior centuries) and weren’t even interested in going there on their own volition were treated unjustly – there simply is no excuse for that. The Arab nationalists will have to answer for that on the Day of Judgement.

    Peace.

  286. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    One final note on taxation. According to the classical rules; if you are a non-Muslim female you have ZERO tax liability in Dar ul-Islam no matter how wealthy you are. The only exception to this is if you own agricultural land, in which case there is a tax that can be paid in monetary terms or in kind (produce).

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  287. @Talha

    Cannot figure out Mohammed for the life of me. Tried and tried. Makes no sense. I am just wired differently. I feel he plagiarized and got a lot of things wrong.
    But you are correct how could it become so big. Blows my mind. It will not over take Judiasm and Christianity together, which at this part in time are very much aligned. Jesus I can completely relate to.
    Mohammed was the first prophet to use a sword. He seemed very violent.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Talha
  288. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Jesus I can completely relate to.

    Chabad Lubavitcher – who has indicated she is guided in her life by the Talmud – relates to her Muslim interlocutor that she “can completely relate to Jesus”… who according to said Talmud is boiling in his own excrement.

    Note to Hollywood scriptwriter… you can’t make this shite up!

  289. Talha says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I feel he plagiarized and got a lot of things wrong.

    The assumption in this is that the Biblical record is the correct one.

    Mohammed was the first prophet to use a sword.

    You have got to be kidding me.

    He seemed very violent.

    He tried preaching non-violently and the pagan Quraysh killed and persecuted his followers and ran him and his followers out of town. God then gave them permission to fight back.

    Picking a fight with God’s emissary is a really, really stupid thing to do; it was over the minute they threw the gauntlet down. In the first battle at Badr, almost all of the top leaders of the pagan Quraysh lay dead; it was all downhill from there. Who do you think was going to come out winning? Would God allow a bunch of pagans to outmaneuver and humiliate His final Messenger (pbuh) on the battlefield?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jatt Sengh
  290. Prajna says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Who, me? Did yer hasbara handlers pass you a link with no context again Fran?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  291. Tony Ryals says: • Website

    Francis Taubman and Talha are both wrong – Mohamed didn’t fly to heaven from Jerusalem using
    Al Aqsa as his launching pad and white Euro trash aren’t and never have been Semites.Personally I have more sympathy for the ‘pagans’ that Jews and Moslems and Christians have persecuted and slaughtered than I do for any of these perverted 3 in one religions.So it’s fitting that after having raped and slaughtered the pagans they go after each others jugulars.

    There are archeologists who have reason to believe the Jews ‘wailing’ or whining wall was never the site of their assholie of holies,synagogue or tabernacle or whatever in the first place and they are really just praying or preying on and to the wall of the Romans’ military fortification,something like idol-ly worshipping the ruins of the wall of the ruins of the U.S.Embassy in Baghdad’s ‘green zone’ sometime in our distopian future..The Whining Wall is not even close to being the most impressive archeological site the world and even the largest megalith placed into its contruction was done by the Romans and not by Jews.And ‘modern’ pseudo Jews couldn’t even build a bad copy of that!

    Even if Al Aqsa is finally destroyed by Taubman’s Chabad Likudnick fanatics the white arse honky Euro Jews can’t even build a nice house -all their occupied Palestinian ‘settleemnts’ remind me of Pete Seeger’s song about ‘ticky tacks’ or the shoddy post WWII suburban houses that sprang up in the U.S. after the war.Can you imagine the big gaudy ticky tack ‘holie of holies’ these international financial and l war criminals would build in Al Aqsa’s place ? Ha.

    ‘Modern’ Israel reminds me of the title of Henry Miller’s ‘Air Conditioned Nightare’.Without all those fossil fuels for air conditioning and water stolen from Palestinians to flush their stanky excrement all those phoney white pseudo Jews would be cramming the airport of Tel Aviv like Americans did when the Viet Naese kicked their white and black asses back back to Aerikkka in the good old daze.I just hope there’s no oil available to fly them to New York !

    Jerry Falwell Jr. can suck the rapist and pedophile Abraham’s mythical private parts as far as I’m concerned at least as soon as the rabbis and mullahs have had their turn.

  292. Incitatus says:
    @Talha

    Did Mohammed (pbuh) set foot in Jerusalem?
    “Yes. On the Night Journey called Isra and Miraj.

    Wonderful legacy told by the faithful. Peace be upon them and you. Ponder this.

    UR is a web site sponsored by a Jew who made a fortune selling (2006) to Moody’s, who in turn bundled sub-prime (worthless) RE mortgages into triple-A securities (2007-08). Both defrauded Americans of $7 trillion+ 2007-08. That’s who they are. That’s who ‘free speech’ libertarian Ron is. He wants to be a Harvard Board of Governors/CA senator/CA governor/president. Nothing wrong with that. Ambition is a wonderful thing. Piracy is not.

    What, gold-star Talha, pray five times/day, do you expect from your posts on UR? Another star from Ron Unz (Moody’s enabler)?

    Reading Gitta Sereny’s ‘The Healing Wound’. Nothing to do with Jews. (Sorry Ron). 200,000 Polish children kidnapped into Himmler’s screwball Aryan NSDAP programs. 50,000 at most returned post 1945. Amazing.

    Stay well, Talha

    • Replies: @Talha
  293. Talha says:
    @Incitatus

    Wonderful legacy told by the faithful.

    No problem, sir. It is interesting that the critics usually avoid highlighting the reports in authentic hadith that mention that some of the Quraysh also called him out – many of them had been to the area in their trade caravans from Makkah, so they were familiar with the city:
    “When the Quraish disbelieved me (concerning my night journey), I stood up in Al- Hijr (the unroofed portion of the Ka`ba) and Allah displayed Bayt-ul-Maqdis before me, and I started to inform them (Quraish) about its signs while looking at it.” – reported in Bukhari

    I mean, it’s OK that people still don’t believe it, upt to them. But the narrative certainly has coherency with us.

    He wants to be a Harvard Board of Governors/CA senator/CA governor/president.

    That ship is sunk – I’m sure we both agree there; is no way he will be allowed anywhere near those positions given the content of his Pravda articles.

    What, gold-star Talha, pray five times/day, do you expect from your posts on UR?

    A lifetime supply of chocolate would be nice, however – I’ll settle for being able to interact with folks like yourself.

    200,000 Polish children kidnapped into Himmler’s screwball Aryan NSDAP programs. 50,000 at most returned post 1945.

    May God bring such people to justice. Speaking of which, apparently they found the “Shaykh al-Islam” of ISIS. Does it really surprise you that a man of such convictions looks like this even while thousands of women and children around him lived in conditions of starvation. May God serve these men justice for their crimes:

    The first thing that came to my mind was – Baron Vladimir Harkonnen!

    Stay well, Talha

    You as well, my friend.

    Peace.

  294. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    There maybe individual Jews involved [in immigration] but it is not a collective idea.

    Hey, Fran. It appears that you and Bari Weiss have a difference of opinion regarding whether Jewish Supremacist Organizations (JSOs) promote open borders.

    Listen to Bari tell the truth in this very short video clip, “It’s Not A Conspiracy” – Bari Weiss Loves Open Borders:

    For those who prefer to read the transcript, here it is:

    Well, that’s the thing.

    The Jewish connection to the refugee is not a conspiracy. That’s something we’re very, very proud of. The organization that Robert Bowers was constantly calling out, is an organization called HIAS, which brought people including Sergey Brin to this country. It started in the 1880s to bring Jews who were fleeing the pogroms of Eastern Europe. Now, they helped Jews and non-Jews all over the world fleeing persecution.

    I met a man in Arizona on Sunday, a Jew from Cairo, who was helped out of Egypt following the 1967 war. This synagogue exemplified those values. It participated in something called Refugee Shabbot the previous Saturday. It was one of the participating synagogues, nationally. And the concept, you know as in all Jewish synagogues that reflect the most sacred of Jewish values is the value of [speaking Hebrew] “of welcoming the stranger” and especially of welcoming the weakest in our community, which there’s no weaker category in our society than refugee.

  295. @Talha

    That’s why you keep losing to Khalsa||

    • LOL: Talha
  296. HaroldH says:

    1 hour, abridged version of censored Al Jazeera documentary exposing the Israel lobby in the U.S.
    The documentary was never broadcast by Al Jazeera due to pressure from some Jewish groups and individuals. It was eventually leaked to a few groups, which posted some short clips. On November 2nd the first two parts finally became available to the public.

    https://ifamericansknew.org/TheLobby/

    • Replies: @geokat62
  297. HaroldH says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Gilad Atzmon , you say you have much more respect for hardened Zionists!
    When I have seen my country my culture and my people destroyed by decades long undermining of
    unsuspecting people that fought and died in WW1 and WW2 do you wonder where Anti Jewish sentiment comes from?

    If the good honest and generous people that are suffering and will suffer immeasurably greater travails in the next few years ever learn the truth !!

    We have a saying for the Zionists, “Don’t pi** up my back and tell me that its raining”

    Many are waking up and about time..

    https://archive.org/details/TheWorldConquerors-TheRealWarCriminals1958

    https://ia800306.us.archive.org/19/items/TheWorldConquerors-TheRealWarCriminals1958/MARSCHALKOLouis-The_World_Conquerors–The_Real_War_Criminals_1958–imgocr.pdf

    Archibald Maule Ramsey The Nameless War

    https://ia800500.us.archive.org/9/items/TheNamelessWar_105/TheNamelessWar.pdf

    http://whale.to/b//mullins_a.html

  298. geokat62 says:
    @HaroldH

    1 hour, abridged version of censored Al Jazeera documentary exposing the Israel lobby in the U.S.

    Here’s a link to all four parts:

    • Thanks: Talha
  299. Frankk says:
    @AaronB

    Seeing the good in the other is not the baseline of understanding, honesty is. You have to give before you get.

    If Jews would admit that antisemitism is a two way street, that they have responsibility for how others perceive and treat them, there would be something “to discuss”.

    Much more important would be to renounce their lies and biased, self-serving influence, massive inhibitors for honest discussion, and then the above would be moot.

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