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Not many countries are brave or reckless enough to execute a vast medical experiment on their entire population and put vulnerable people at risk. Britain and Israel did.

On December 8, Britain was the first Western country to start “immunising its population.” Two weeks later, just a few days before Christmas, Britain grasped that it was in serious trouble. Covid-19, the virus that was supposed to disappear from our lives, mutated into something else. On December 19, PM Boris Johnson admitted that British scientists had identified a new Covid-19 mutant that is ‘70% more transmissible’ than its ancestors. Britain introduced tighter local restrictions, yet despite these, along with the vast vaccination campaign, the numbers of Covid-19 cases, hospitalisations and deaths kept rising. They are escalating exponentially on a daily basis.

Israel launched its mass vaccination campaign a few days after Britain. Within the next two weeks, Israel managed to vaccinate nearly 20% of its population. Israel is by far the world winner when it comes to the mass vaccination contest, but the country is also in big trouble. Like Britain, Israel is facing a huge Covid-19 surge. Its national health system is on the brink of collapse and the inevitable question is if these similar (if not identical) health crises are related to them both pioneering vast covid-19 vaccination campaigns.

Today, In the biggest Israeli news outlet News12, Israeli computer scientists revealed that the British Mutation is about to become the dominant Covid-19 strain in Israel. You may wonder how the British mutant strain managed to make Aliya and settle so comfortably in the Jewish State. The News 12 article may answer the question. “Cases in Israel aren’t rising uniformly: there is a significant slowdown in the (Israeli) Arab sector, which in the past was the main area of concern. On the other hand, there is a major outbreak in the (Jewish) ultra-Orthodox sector. This week 1.3% of all ultra-Orthodox came out verified, and the rate of increase in cases of children (63%) this week was almost double that of adults. Among the ultra-Orthodox sector, there was a 16-fold increase in the number of verified people within four weeks: this is a doubling every week – from 100 verified people per day (per million people) to 1,600 verified people, and all within a month. Such a growth rate is not seen throughout the plague and is probably due at least in part to the British mutant. It is estimated that the British mutant is about 20% of all ultra-Orthodox verified.”

This must raise eyebrows. Why would the British mutant strain spread so vastly amongst orthodox Jews? Why doesn’t it spread as quickly in the Arab population?

ORDER IT NOW

We may be able to stumble upon a very crucial piece of information here. Israeli Arabs may be doing better on the Covid-19 front because many of them seem to be reluctant about the vaccine. The Israeli Marker’s headline on 27 December stated: “A cause for concern: (Israeli) Arabs do not come to get vaccinated.” The Marker pointed out that Jewish citizens from all over Israel travel to Arab villages and cities to receive the vaccines that were designated to Arabs. According to a duty manager of a vaccination centre in Nazareth, 70-80% of the those who come to receive the vaccine were Jewish. Some of them travel as much as 50 km to do so.

But the story doesn’t end here. On January 3, the Israeli news website Walla reported that “the ultra-Orthodox are leading the population vaccination campaign.” Walla confirmed that ‘the percentage of people vaccinated against corona among ultra-Orthodox society is higher than the rest of the population of all ages.’

It is beyond me why the Israelis decided to become guinea pigs in this reckless unscientific experiment in human lives. One option that can’t be dismissed is that Israel is once again heading towards an election and it is more than likely that Israel’s leaders believed that a mass vaccination campaign may translate into an electoral success.

As things stand at the moment, it is hard to deny the possibility of a correlation between mass vaccination and a sharp spike in Covid-19 cases in both Israel and Britain. It is hard to deny the fact that Israeli Arabs who at large avoid the vaccine are doing far better than the Jewish orthodox who seem to also believe in Pfizer.

Alongside the revelations about the British strain, we also learned about a South African strain that is highly dangerous and possibly resistant to the current vaccines. It takes very little research to figure out that South Africa, together with Brazil and Britain, had been the testing ground for new vaccine trials since September. It is hardly a secret anymore that this was at roughly the same time that the new mutants were discovered in Britain at least.

I point here at the devastating possibility of a link between mass vaccinations and Covid-19 spikes. I am not qualified to support or explain the science that may cause this correlation. My facts are supported by data that is available to the wider public through mainstream news outlets. I am not an epidemiologist or a virologist and I really hope that people with the appropriate scientific training can refute the issues raised above.

Sometimes I really wish to be wrong.

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Science • Tags: Britain, Coronavirus, Israel, Vaccines 
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  1. These geniuses, in a reply to a comment I jokingly made about the vaxx triggering the virus, assured us this is not possible:

    ———

    Might it actually trigger COVID

    Since the vaccine does not contain any virus, that’s 100% impossible.

    You give the answer in your quote – Pfizer’s shot only begins having an effect 8-10 days after first injection, and only reaches full potential after the second dose, so you can still get Covid until after your 2nd dose.

    And how dare those people die after getting the shot – don’t they know that if you get the shot you can never die?

    But I guess if you are dumb or malicious enough, you can twist the causation around and say that the vaccine triggers Covid and that wet streets cause rain.

    • Agree: Dissident

    (https://www.unz.com/isteve/gov-cuomo-trying-to-make-mayor-de-blasio-look-good/#comment-4381356)

    ———

    You’ll have to take it up with them.

  2. Wyatt says:

    Israel launched its mass vaccination campaign a few days after Britain. Within the next two weeks, Israel managed to vaccinate nearly 20% of its population. Israel is by far the world winner when it comes to the mass vaccination contest, but the country is also in big trouble.

    Every dark cloud has its silver lining, I suppose.

    • LOL: Jim Christian
  3. Herald says:

    Gilad has bought so deeply into the Covid hoax, it’s pitiful.

    • Agree: Tom Welsh, Liza
  4. Polemos says:

    ‘Vaccine induced enhancement’ or ‘antibody-dependent enhancement’ are search terms for finding papers and research on how vaccines can increase the chances for infection as well as severity.

    For example,
    https://www.thesaneproject.org/immune-enhancement-the-dark-side-of-antibodies-and-implications-for-covid-19-vaccine-development/

    Coronaviruses, however, have evolved a secondary cell infection pathway that relies on the presence of antiviral immune serum, or host antibodies, and is independent of pH and cellular protease enzymes. They effectively exploit the host’s immune reaction by infecting immune cells 5,9. This way, the virus can gain entry into an entirely new cell type that does not carry the ACE2 receptor. This different mechanism is relevant as many other instances of ADE in other viruses only improve the infectivity to already susceptible cell types 5.

    The alternative entry pathway depends on the presence of Fc or complement receptors on immune cells, particularly the FcγRII (CD32) receptor found on human leukocytes 5. When antibodies attach to the viral epitope on the spike protein, the ADE2 receptor-dependent entry to epithelial cells is blocked. Instead, the antibody-immune complex now functionally mimics the viral receptor on epithelial cells. Thus, it facilitates access to immune cells, including macrophages, B cells, and monocytes 7,8. IgM antibody subclasses, in particular, have been implicated for ADE of several viruses, including DENV, Ebola, and HIV 8,9. Furthermore, ADE can be caused independently of antibody origin by pre-existing antibodies raised through vaccination, infection, or passive maternal immunity 10.

    Nonetheless, different vaccine candidates for SARS-CoV, for instance, despite being equally effective to block ADE2-dependent viral entry, have been shown to differ in their effectiveness in causing ADE 5. Through the synthesis of antibodies targeting different antigenic regions on the spike protein of the SARS virus, in vitro studies have identified that particular protein sequences on the spike protein differ in their immunogenicity as well as their capacity to elicit ADE. Thus, an epitope sequence-dependent (ESD) mechanism for enhanced infectivity of SARS-CoV both in vitro and in non-human primates was identified 9,11.

  5. Anon[181] • Disclaimer says:

    This is an excellent observation. In other words the CODID-19 hoax is replaced with the real one. Let’s call it COVID-21. Can vaccinations cause an epidemic: absolutely. Just ask Judy Mikovits. Also I am surprised how Jews can be so stupid. It is as if one holocaust was not bad enough, they want to inflict another one upon themselves. Go figure!

    • Agree: Tom Welsh
    • Replies: @lloyd
    , @journey80
  6. @Polemos

    Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) is indeed a serious danger with vaccines, so it’s a good thing we’ve been working on it for decades, and for many years on SARS type coronavirus spike proteins allowing Moderna to develop their vaccine over a weekend (TL;DR, “some molecular twist ties added”).

    It never ceases to amaze me that people are so certain mRNA vaccines with their very limited effect on the body axiomatically must be worse than getting a full scale, unrestrained infection from a virus that for example has serious vascular effects in a substantial fraction of those who get it. A lot of people need to look up the word “morbidity” and make risk/benefit calculations, vs. blindly rejecting modern medicine.

  7. JasonT says:

    Gilad,

    The program is not so hard to understand. COVID-19 is a real coronavirus, but in line with the strength of the usual flu, though a bit stronger. The ‘pandemic’, however, is a fake and the fake is being supported by a corrupted media, corrupted politicians and, more importantly, by corrupted medical institutions.

    The so-called ‘vaccine’ is n mRNA cocktail that transfect people’s cells to use their own cellular machinery to produce the spike protein of coronaviruses. The spike protein is what helps the virus defeat the body’s first line of immune defense – cellular immunity. With this spike protein being pumped into people’s bloodstreams, the body’s second line of immune defense kicks in – antibody production. The body is now primed so that the next time the person catches a cold, or any coronavirus, the body’s first line of defense has already been compromised by the mRNA cocktail, which means the body’s second line of defense will kick in hard. This produces a cytokine storm in the body and the person gets very sick, and maybe dies.

    This, of course, is the beauty of the plan. It will be the virus that is blamed for the sickness and not the mRNA cocktail, which means that every year people will be desperately lining up to take the very poison that is the root cause of the problem – the mRNA cocktail euphemistically called a vaccine. We will then have a situation where large parts of the population will be culled and the remainder will be held in thrall. Alongside this, of course, will the steady implementation of even more draconian totalitarianism, all in the name of fighting the common cold.

    People must remember that we have been living with viruses for hundreds of thousand of years. The body has systems for dealing with these things, and for those individuals whose immune systems have broken down for some reason, their are curatives (e.g. ivermectin, zinc with ionophore) to help them survive. It is not the virus that is and will be the problem. It is and will be the mRNA cocktail that is deceitfully being called a vaccine.

  8. Alb says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Your characterization is too strident. There may me some people who “are so certain mRNA vaccines … must be worse than getting a full scale … infection” and who are “blindly rejecting modern medicine.” But there are plenty who don’t think mRNA vaccines are worse than infection, but may have unknown long-term effects, and can isolate themselves effectively and wait until more data is available. That is not “blindly rejecting modern medicine.”

    • Agree: Tom Welsh
    • Replies: @Notsofast
  9. journey80 says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    The problem is that even Pfizer and Moderna make the most modest of claims for their vaccines; i.e. that the vaccines shorten the hospital stay by a few days. Otherwise, bupkis. They don’t prevent infection, transmission, or severe illness. So remind me why anyone in their right mind would take unknown risks with their immune systems for such a small benefit, that has been “proven” in trials that are carefully designed to succeed?

    • Agree: ariadna, Tom Welsh
  10. Sirius says:
    @JasonT

    What you’re saying is quite possible and sounds convincing to the layman. Do you have any medical sources for this information?

    • Replies: @Gemjunior
  11. Notsofast says:
    @Alb

    dr gregory michael a 56 year old doctor at miami’s mount sinai medical center died 16 days after taking the pfizer vaccine. an otherwise healthy avid big game fisherman and certified scuba diver died of a “highly unusual clinical case of severe thrombocytopenia” that pfizer does not believe has any direct connection to the vaccine. more random coincidence apparently, seems to be a lot of that going around. im sure “that would be telling” will splain it all away for us.

  12. Alb says:
    @journey80

    I think they do claim over 90% prevention of severe cases in comparison to no vaccination. The reduction is days of hospitalization was for some drug some months ago.

  13. lloyd says: • Website
    @Anon

    Unless you are being sarcastic, most Jews are pretty stupid. Gilad has had a few things to say about that. Clever Jews historically married the rich merchant’s daughter and formed an elite. However it was an anti scientific elite, mostly devoted to the mumbo jumbo and pornography with a few gleams of wisdom in the Talmud. A general well educated middle class population did not develop much.Whatever they take over such as the State of Israel and the public institutions of America become farcical and doomed to destruction within at most a few centuries. That is the next Holocaust.

    • Replies: @Andrei
  14. noname27 says: • Website

    Viruses do not exist. Virology is quack-science created by the pharmacological giants in order to produce fake illnesses that then need treating with their toxic poisons and vaccines.

    Research Dr. Stefan Lanka or go here: https://bittube.tv/post/74e1d1fd-d096-488e-958c-38425f1e1bde

  15. @JasonT

    With this spike protein being pumped into people’s bloodstreams, the body’s second line of immune defense kicks in – antibody production. The body is now primed so that the next time the person catches a cold, or any coronavirus, the body’s first line of defense has already been compromised by the mRNA cocktail, which means the body’s second line of defense will kick in hard. This produces a cytokine storm in the body and the person gets very sick, and maybe dies.

    Um, no, several times over. You simply don’t understand what mRNA is and its function and lifetime as an encoded strand in a cell. DNA -> mRNA -> proteins, and the mRNA gets recycled quickly. So it doesn’t pump out spike proteins for very long, and anyway the body terminates with extreme prejudice the cells that got hijacked by an “active” vaccine, learning how to do that is one of them over “passive” ones.

    • Replies: @JasonT
    , @RT
  16. Polemos says:
    @Polemos

    When antibodies attach to the viral epitope on the spike protein, the ADE2 receptor-dependent entry to epithelial cells is blocked. Instead, the antibody-immune complex now functionally mimics the viral receptor on epithelial cells. Thus, it facilitates access to immune cells, including macrophages, B cells, and monocytes 7,8. IgM antibody subclasses, in particular, have been implicated for ADE of several viruses, including DENV, Ebola, and HIV 8,9.

    Can someone more educated and informed than I confirm or deny my following interpretation of this from the article I linked? That is, is this saying

    The antibodies bind to the spike protein on the virus, thus blocking the virus from binding to ACE2 receptors, but now due to the other binding mechanism available to a coronavirus, this new attached antibody facilitates the virus having access to other immune system cells and bodies, and so creating new avenues for infection and pathologies apart from how it targeted ACE2 receptors.

    So, it becomes important how we design the shape of what binds to the spike protein’s epitope, because we could be evolving different immune system-coronavirus hybrids within individuals, with different outcomes from different antibodies. We will be pushing coronavirus configurations based on what the different mRNA codes program for antibody production.

    Isn’t this the idea for why they want to use mRNA? Skip the body’s reactive shotgun approach to germ warfare and instead program it intentionally using advanced knowledge of the genetic manufacturing already endemic to the host from billions of years of cost-cutting, using mRNA to hijack a cell just long enough to get the code running. Once programmed, an immune system as a complex environment retains its memory for conditional responses outside of host DNA, so it’s technically correct to say it doesn’t alter DNA but disingenuous given how immune systems are dynamic databases (maybe my impression is just ignorant, though). Either way, mRNA engineered to aid humans in producing sets of specific antibody shapes for the spike protein alters how SARS-CoV2 now appears to target some other part of our bodies — to most folks, they will accept it if you then call that a “mutation” or a “variant.”

    It needn’t even be intentional. It can be as simple as someone thinking they have found the one weakness and in exploiting it created a far worse situation. Like the idea of matching viral spike protein genes in with anthrax.

    Again, I am ignorant, so I am open to learning.

  17. @journey80

    The problem is that even Pfizer and Moderna make the most modest of claims for their vaccines; i.e. that the vaccines shorten the hospital stay by a few days. Otherwise, bupkis. They don’t prevent infection, transmission, or severe illness.

    Where on earth did you learn such obvious and falsifiable lies? Yes, blocking transmission is not an endpoint in their Phase III trials because that’s very hard to prove, you just have to hope based on what we generally know and serological (blood) tests, but they most certainly do the other two as explicit endpoints (although as of November 20th Pfizer didn’t have enough data on serious cases). See the endpoints in the Phase III protocols for Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna, but this has been reported in the general media as well, so what’s up??

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  18. Polemos says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    It never ceases to amaze me that people are so certain mRNA vaccines with their very limited effect on the body axiomatically must be worse than getting a full scale, unrestrained infection from a virus that for example has serious vascular effects in a substantial fraction of those who get it.

    Your writing voice is distinctive, but my natural exposure to online conversations has rendered me immune to certain aspects of the thoughtcode you inject here.

    Even if a person must exist solely for the tradeoffs of living, it is still reasonable to prefer natural exposure over injection, given greater access to information about not only those who have proposed vaccinations but who also profit from their capture of nation-states and transnational corporations through biosecurity regimes. These are political decisions made for social forms outside of any genuine and considerate concern for humanity and non-human being, much less transparent and thoughtful conversation centered in inclusion and suasion.

    In all other cases, the usual sorts demanding we comply here call this form of totality control a tyranny or some negative –archy. Thus, it is reasonable to mistrust the humans operating from misguided understanding of their role in the world’s flow and to trust the grand indifference of the natural world eating me away everyday, as it has eaten me and I it for all the time it and I have been One in this transformation of things, the flow that links me to the galaxies above and the hadrons within, and to you, you on the other side of this text represented on your screen. It is reasonable to mistrust those who deceive.

    You know this, but it’s still important to write out to help others come to their views.

    • Agree: ariadna
    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  19. JasonT says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Cell transfection with mRNA for the production of exogenous proteins is now a very common strategy. One only needs to look for “cell transfection mRNA” in a search engine to get a glimpse of the extent of work done and being done in this field. Heck, I have even drafted a few patent applications related to just this kind of technology, and that was 10 years ago.

    Eventually, exogenous mRNA will break down, but much work and many strides have also been made to increase stability of exogenous mRNA in cells. (You can also search “cell transfection mRNA stability” in a search engine to get a glimpse of the extent of work done on this aspect. The body can be fooled into not “terminating with extreme prejudice” the hijacked cells for long enough to produce a lot of the exogenous spike protein.

    Your comments are overly simplistic as they relate to the state of the art 15-20 years ago. A lot has happened in mRNA transfection since the first attempts to use mRNA instead of DNA to transfect cells for the purpose of protein production.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  20. You may wonder how the British mutant strain managed to make Aliya and settle so comfortably in the Jewish State.

    Lol line of the week – Gilad wins the internet

    This must raise eyebrows. Why would the British mutant strain spread so vastly amongst orthodox Jews? Why doesn’t it spread as quickly in the Arab population?

    1) Half the population is accustomed to wearing a hijab over their face and mouth, at least occasionally or as needed
    2) how many Arabs/ Palestinians can get a passport to engage in business travel to carry infection back home
    3) how many Palestinians have a job, and need to engage in business travel to carry infection back home
    4) What pct of Arabs / Pali’s have already been earlier infected/exposed due to ‘last in line’ status for protective gear / precautions, and thus are not vulnerable in larger part to contracting the new strain of UK localised virus
    5) the diet and manual labor lifestyle of avg Arab/Pali may lead to less morbidity than a Israeli population with a 1st world lifestyle = HFC induced Obesity, sloth, diabetes, inactivity
    6) Arabs/Pali’s skew younger at the mean demographic than even Orthodox (?), and thus a larger pct of the population have no symptoms and don’t seek testing
    7) Arabs and Palis are suspicious of what is going into their arms / Re: Ethiopian Jews slipped Birth Control against their will, and wont seek help from a state they dont trust not to target them –
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html
    8) Arabs and Palis comply with lockdowns (?) to avoid infection whereas the Orthodox engaged in a policy of encouraging infection as a group strategy
    9) How many foreign tourists frequent areas primarily inhabited by Arabs/Palis, vs Orthodox

    The gene-editing RNA concoction is not going into my veins, and its not a ‘vaccination’, anymore than the patriot act is patriotic.. but I would credit all or some combination of the above factors, first and foremost for the differential.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  21. @Polemos

    First a reply to a bit in your later message:

    Even if a person must exist solely for the tradeoffs of living, it is still reasonable to prefer natural exposure over injection

    You and smallpox would have gotten along like wildfire back before it was eradicated. @noname27 above also need to explain how countryside doctor Edward Jenner was also a pharmacological giant, using Variolae vaccinae AKA smallpox of the cow AKA cow pox as the first vaccine to, well, there’s a missing step there like the underpants gnomes.

    OK, first a sharpening of terms, epitopes are whatever particular parts of an antigen such as the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein the immune systems decides to latch onto, this includes B-cells and T-Cells as well as antibodies. The immune system, actually two systems, but only the adaptive one learns, is very complicated. Oh, and your:

    Once programmed, an immune system as a complex environment retains its memory for conditional responses outside of host DNA, so it’s technically correct to say it doesn’t alter DNA but disingenuous given how immune systems are dynamic databases (maybe my impression is just ignorant, though).

    I would in turn say that something that won’t be transmitted to children except through mothers seeding their immune systems lacks something in the “makes you a GMO!!!” claim which is the usual gravamen of this line of reasoning, if you can call it such.

    You may have a point, but I don’t really know how that mother to child thing works or its duration … but I now know 80% more, IaG antibodies have a specific receptor in the placenta which transfers them to the fetus. But in general the placental barrier keeps the two systems separate while allowing essential small molecule I assume gas, nutrient, and waste exchange.

    Rh incompatibility is the best known failure of this barrier, the Rh system is like the ABO blood typing system, and one Rh(D) protein from it is either expressed on red blood cells or not, Rh+ and Rh-. If a mother is negative and a fetus is positive, red blood cells can leak through that barrier and prompt the mother to make antibodies against the Rh(D) factor. The IaG ones go over to the fetus and attack its red blood cells, with varying levels of bad effects.

    OK, back to your question: multiple antibodies might be latched onto multiple epitopes of a spike protein, I’m pretty sure you want that so if one epitope mutates too much, others will still allow the immune system to do its thing (which also includes terminating with extreme prejudice any cells hijacked by the virus or an active vaccine). At that point, you need someone more knowledgeable that me for these details of the immune system. Maybe several somebodies, I wonder if any one person can today know enough about the adaptive immune system to consider all of the angles, it’s so complicated and we’ve learned so much about it since the mid-1970s when I realized this and decided to put it in the learn as needed category.

    So I lean hard on empiricism, which this link back from May couldn’t. That is, look at the Phase III trials that have gotten to a decisive point, that would include the ones by Gamaleya (Gam-COVID-Vac AKA Sputnik V), Pfizer/BioNTech, and Moderna (but the AZ/Oxdord clown show also ought to be illuminating). If what this link fears was true, we would see at minimum more serious disease in the vaccine arms of the trial. Maybe only comparable to the the control (placebo) arms of them, but:

    The paradigmatic example of a vaccine screwup of this nature is a trial of the first vaccine for RSV, per “The respiratory syncytial virus vaccine landscape: lessons from the graveyard and promising candidates“, in 1966-7 in what’s a Phase I or II trial based on the thankfully small number of subjects, “In the youngest age group, 20 of 31 of RSV naïve infants were infected with community-acquired wild-type RSV during the next RSV season and 16 (80%) required hospitalization including two deaths(4) in whom [enhanced respiratory disease (ERD)] was documented.

    And we haven’t see that with these three Phase III studies, and I know BioNTech and Moderna took advantage of the anti-ADE technology that had been developed in the years since SARS and MERS started stalking the earth. I don’t know anything about the other posited mechanism for that sort of problem.

    • Replies: @Sin City Milla
    , @Druid
  22. @JasonT

    Your comments are overly simplistic as they relate to the state of the art 15-20 years ago. A lot has happened in mRNA transfection since the first attempts to use mRNA instead of DNA to transfect cells for the purpose of protein production.

    This might have something to do with the fact that I’m trying to explain this to laymen, vs. people like you who claim to be domain experts in the current state of the art. Your argument boils down to “the technology is more advanced that I claim or know” … can you cite any of these advances which have actually lead to licensed biologics? I couldn’t just now with a search, just looks like lab techniques. And that vaccine companies are so evil they’ll use this technology … and somehow get away with it? That part of these cunning plans is always omitted.

    • Replies: @JasonT
    , @JasonT
    , @The Alarmist
  23. Here come the Teenage Mutant Ninja Viruses….right on-cue.

  24. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Atzmon should stick to writing about things he knows something about, that is negro “music”, and probably not much else. He’s too stupid to comment on viruses and should count himself lucky if he isn’t jailed for the dangerous misinformation in this article. Spreading such nonsensical conspiracy theories is irresponsible in the current situation. If he keeps doing it, he should be sent to Belmarsh.

  25. Bill7 says:

    Commenter ‘That Would be Telling’ appears to be just another discourse-policer; there are at least
    a couple on every site, now..

    One of its telling (besides the eloquence™) snippets:

    > You and smallpox would have gotten along like wildfire back before it was eradicated.

    Anyone that’s unwilling to take a totally unproven vax-seen clearly, clearly wants to bring
    back smallpox.

    what a con

    • Agree: Notsofast
  26. Kumbaresu says:
    @anon

    I hope you will get vaccinated as soon as possible. You deserve it more than most people.

  27. @Trial by Wombat

    The gene-editing RNA concoction

    Without including reverse transcriptase to reverse the fundamental paradigm of molecular genetics and go from RNA to DNA, and integrase to then integrate that DNA into your own, it can’t edit your genes. And the vaccines can be easily checked for that, that’s one advantage they have, they’re very simple. Plus there’s always the issue of how many could it edit, and to what effect, but @JasonT has a thesis. Given that mRNA vaccines hijack cells just like live virus vaccines, including the very first one which gave us the name, it’s a vaccine in function as well as effect.

    • Replies: @Trial by Wombat
  28. Andrei says:
    @lloyd

    It’s not that most Jews are stupid, it’s more that IQ and conformity are very different things. You can have high IQ and be conformist, and actually most high IQ people DO tend to be conformist. IQ is mostly about pattern recognition. But pattern recognition doesn’t make you more immune to propaganda or herd behavior. A lot of people who buy into the “blacks are equal to whites, women equal to men” dogma are technically very smart.

  29. JasonT says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    As opposed to you who claim to be an expert? No one here knows who you or I are. People will need to decide for themselves.

    From your responses, I can see that you are a classic Deep State troll.

    • Agree: Notsofast
    • Thanks: Nancy
    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  30. JasonT says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    And yes. The ‘vaccine’ companies are that evil. They get away with it because our governments, media and medical establishment are corrupted by billionaire money, fear, stupidity or some combination thereof.

    You like to obfuscate the issues with a lot of ‘technical detail’ that makes no sense to any one with knowledge in the area. It is pointless to spend the time to argue with you because you will respond with repeating more details that makes no sense.

    • Agree: Polemos, Ugetit
  31. Bill7 says:

    > Without including reverse transcriptase to reverse the fundamental paradigm of molecular genetics and go from RNA to DNA, and integrase to then integrate that DNA into your own

    “fundamental paradigm”, yadda-yadda..

    Do better, dude.. your handlers require it.

  32. @JasonT

    As opposed to you who claim to be an expert? No one here knows who you or I are. People will need to decide for themselves.

    Should be pretty easy when I ask you to prove your most important technical assertion, give you two ways to do that, and you instead attack me.

    • Replies: @JasonT
  33. JasonT says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Typical response. You make statements without proof and then ask for proof of counter statements. As I said, people will need to decide for themselves.

    • Replies: @Thoughts
  34. RT says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Please, tell if I understood how the mRNA vaccine works: Exogenous mRNA responsible for COVID spike protein synthesis is injected – it enters the cells and make them produce COVID spike protein – the immune system recognise it as foreign and then start producing antibodies against it. Correct?

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  35. Miro23 says:

    Such a growth rate is not seen throughout the plague and is probably due at least in part to the British mutant.

    There’s a psychological trick here. The UK government/media frequently use the term “plague” when talking about Covid-19. It ramps up the fear and justifies the reduction of civil liberties. The public are scared into believing that they are dealing with a plague (The Plague) which justifies all the extreme measures.

    What they’re not being told – and largely don’t know, is that the death rate from Covid-19 is about 0.003% (actually much lower for younger healthy people) while the death rate from The Plague (Bubonic Plague/Black death – 14th Century) was around 45-50% (all age groups).

    That makes the real Bubonic Plague fifteen thousand times more lethal.

    So there’s only one conclusion: That it’s a fabricated project to remove civil rights and Sovietize government/public relations. There are also the Deep State lies regarding its origins.

    • Replies: @flashlight joe
  36. Altai says:

    It is hard to deny the fact that Israeli Arabs who at large avoid the vaccine are doing far better than the Jewish orthodox who seem to also believe in Pfizer.

    Isn’t it also likely that the dogmatic social practices of the Orthodox which includes a lack of personal space, large families and communal gatherings makes them highly susceptible to infection and that this spurred their desire to get vaccinated since they do not intend to change their behaviour. That the two go together for that reason.

    You correctly noted this pattern with regard to the US previously where Orthodox communities were key in the early incubation and spread of the virus across the US and in NYC in particular.

    It will be interesting to see what the complication rate of this campaign of mass vaccination, possibly the greatest in human history, ends up being like.

    • Replies: @Altai
  37. Altai says:
    @Altai

    In fact it seems likely that given the lack of 100% efficacy of the vaccines (Estimates of between 70-90%) and the pre-existing free-rider mentality of the Orthodox of not going along with social distancing with everyone else, that maybe some level of risk compensation is going on here. Maybe the mass vaccinations are making the Orthodox engage in even more risky behaviour than they were already engaged in with their trademark mass gatherings indoors. Couple that with a lag between people developing symptoms and making them and their contacts get tests, the tests being done and the results reported along with the height of winter and it makes a lot of sense.

    It would also explain why Israel, with the largest proportion of Orthodox in the world, went down that route given the utter futility of social distancing measures with so many Orthodox and their resistance to going along with the plan.

    I’m actually curious if this whole situation hasn’t massively increased the already-existing tensions between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Jews in Israel.

  38. Gilad- get serious. This is silly. Actually, embarrassing.

  39. @RT

    Please, tell if I understood how the mRNA vaccine works: Exogenous mRNA responsible for COVID spike protein synthesis is injected – it enters the cells and make them produce COVID spike protein – the immune system recognise it as foreign and then start producing antibodies against it. Correct?

    Yes, like a live virus vaccine it makes the cells it enters using the protective lipids generate proteins, but only the (stabilized) spike protein. Don’t know if that protein exits the cells, but the major histocompatibility complex presents bits of it on the cells’ surface, which the immune system recognizes as alien and then does its thing, which goes beyond just creating antibodies.

    • Replies: @RT
  40. RT says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Thanks.
    So the goal is to make immune system/s respond to the viral S-protein. Why is the need to make human cells produce this protein themselves by injecting viral or reconstructed viral genetic material of it in humans? Why not isolate and inject the S-protein itself? Or inject viral mRNA into Esherihia coli e.g., to make them produce a stabilized spike protein the way it is used to produce Insulin and then inject it as vaccine? The goal of trigering immune response is achieved by encountering the foreign protein, not nucleic acid, no?

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  41. @Miro23

    There are three types of people today: those who believe the lies they are told, those that are telling the lies, and those that understand the power of propaganda.

    • Agree: Miro23, Ugetit
  42. @RT

    You’re welcome.

    The “need” for “active” vaccines is that they generally produce a better and more complete immune system response than just proteins, which require adjuvants to get the immune system to respond to them using feasible amounts of proteins (or so is my vague understanding, adjuvants aren’t really understood except that they’re necessary). Look here and you’ll see lots of standard old fashioned vaccines are attenuated live viruses. If you want to dig in more, look at the two for polio, they have different effectiveness and risk profiles, are each good for different phases of a mass inoculation program.

    The biggest factor though is that it takes very little time to develop a mRNA vaccine if you have already developed a good platform for it, and know exactly what mRNA to use, which we do thanks to SARS and MERS. So Moderna literally developed their candidate over a weekend, and they and Pfizer/BioNTech were the first to get FDA Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs, not “approval”).

    But you of course have a point, so we’re trying “all of the above,” there are two Operation Warp Speed (OWS) funded protein plus adjuvant efforts, and the EU stumbled mightily by depending on Sanofi/GSK’s working. Which everyone expected to succeed, this is Sanofi Pasteur after all, but in their Phase I/II trials they failed to get a sufficient response from the elderly, which means starting all over again in the next few months, they might have something pass a Phase III trial by the end of the year.

    Novavax on the other hand has been running a half-FDA size trial in the U.K., and is now starting a 30,000 subject Phase III trial in the US, which I take to be a good sign. Sinovac’s CoronaVac is an inactivated virus one like the Salk polio one, I was hearing good things about their trial in Brazil but haven’t seen anything recently (haven’t really been looking).

    The other major type being done is viral vector, you take one or more suitable viruses, gimp their ability to reproduce, and splice in the genetic code for the spike protein. More “natural” in a way than mRNA vaccines, but takes longer to develop, and what it presents to the body and makes hijacked cells do is more complicated. AZ/Oxford’s attempt at this isn’t working well, Janssen is in Phase III trials, and Gamaleya in Russia knocked it out of the ballpark with what seems to me the obvious approach around one issue with such vaccines.

    • Replies: @Alb
    , @the fat controller
  43. @Polemos

    On the other hand, if this virus was man-made, it is as “unnatural” as the vaccine, so it would be misguided to consider the effects of an infection by it as representative of “the grand indifference of the natural world”.

    • Replies: @Polemos
  44. RT says:

    Thanks again. Why we here do not have access to the other types of vaccines, do you know?

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  45. Alb says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Thanks for the RNA to DNA explanation. All I had heard, from a med student, was that the mRNA does not enter the nucleus, which sounded slightly odd since I hear it does leave it.
    Since you appear to be knowledgeable, let me ask this. We know now that the spike protein can penetrate the blood-brain barrier and enter the brain, and cause inflammation there. We know that among recovered patients whose Covid was severe enough to require hospitalization, 30% report “brain fog” – poor memory and concentration – months after their recovery, and rapid progression of Alzheimer’s has been seen in anecdotal cases. Among a wider population of recovered patients, which included those not requiring hospitalization, 5% reported brain fog (which may be in fact be all due to the severe cases). Now we are instructing our bodies to reproduce this spike protein. I haven’t seen any of the side-effects forms that people are given after vaccination and so I don’t know if they are specifically asked for cognitive issues. Do we know how much protein these vaccines produce in relation to how much is produced in a mild illness, in a moderate illness? And how fast does the brain clear out alien proteins?

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  46. Dumbo says:

    It’s all a lie!

    There is no “mutation”.

    Think about it. For over a year there were no “variants”, just “Covid”, now all of a sudden, and coincidentally just after a vaccine comes out, they find out “variants” and “mutations” in many different countries… Do you want to bet that one of those “mutations” will be discovered to be “resistant” to the vaccine or something, justifying further lockdowns and abuse?

    I am fascinated by the fact that even people here at UR, where even the moon landing have been questioned (rightly, I think, although I am agnostic on the subject), most writers are completely taken in by the COVID hoax.

    It’s just lies, coated in a pseudo-scientific varnish.

    As for the vaccine, the problem is not that it contains a virus, is that it doesn’t. It’s like a “hacking” of our RNA, it makes the body fight itself causing all kinds of problems. It’s SHIT. It’s worse than Covid, as the virus rarely kills anyone under 80, now the vaccine has already killed quite a few under 40.

  47. @That Would Be Telling

    Well, if the current gen of vaccines has the Doctor Bill Gates seal of approval, it must be good for us. Vaxx 3, Vaxx 25, Vaxx 98, Vaxx 2000, Vaxx ME, Vaxx 7, and Vaxx 10 will surely be better, and better, and better, etc. Eventually we might get Vaxx Home Server so we don’t even have to leave the house.

    • LOL: GeeBee
  48. @anon

    Yes, gulags are the best way to deal with those who deal in unpleasant debate.

  49. @Altai

    In fact it seems likely that given the lack of 100% efficacy of the vaccines (Estimates of between 70-90%)….

    It was 70% to 90% efficacy when they stoppped the studies. It will be interesting to see the efficacy recalculated further down the road.

  50. Israeli Arabs may be doing better . . because many of them seem to be reluctant about the vaccine . . I am not an epidemiologist or a virologist

    Yes, well I’m not a virologist either, but I can still distinguish cause from effect. The orthodox sections had a higher rate of infection even before the vaccine because they ignored protocols against transmitting the virus. You couldn’t possibly be unaware of this.

  51. @RT

    Thanks again. Why we here do not have access to the other types of vaccines, do you know?

    Not sure where your “here” is, but each country or in the case of the EU it has its own drug regulatory system, so it depends on which companies submit applications to which countries and which get approved. That should require results from Phase III trials, which of any sort didn’t get to that point until starting in November as I recall.

    For the US, the mRNA ones were first, AZ/Oxford’s US trial got stopped for 40 days due to a possible side effect reaction in a U.K. patient (and in general that effort is a clown show) and as far as I know no others are far enough along to make an application for an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) except maybe for Gamaleya and their Gam-COVID-Vac AKA Sputnik V.

    While their Phase III trial might be of FDA strength, it wasn’t done in the style I’ve seen all other FDA trials which are 30,000 or more subjects, 1:1 vaccine and control (placebo). Instead, they did a 3:1 ratio of 17,000 and 5,700 subjects for their efficacy calculation of 16 to 62 cases, which was a gamble on how long it would take for enough people in the control arm to get infections that paid off handsomely. For safety they have quite a few more people vaccinated, 26,000 total as of December 14th.

    I suppose in theory they could apply for a FDA EUA with a manufacturing partner in the US, using partners in other countries is their business model, but, let us say, geopolitical considerations militate against their even trying. And they’ve got their hands full making doses in Russia, arranging partner manufacturing, and trying to get quality doses from one or more of those partner countries back to Russia.

    • Replies: @RT
  52. RT says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Here is America.
    I read the info on FDA page, the Gamalea vaccine is more than FDA strenght, the Vector vaccine is below it in terms of numbers. So is Sinovac, I mean more strength. Johnson&Johnson are fast reaching that strenght.
    We are denied the choice other contries have. Including memebers of EU, e.g. Hungary, Estonia etc.
    As a physician, dealing with COVID patients and suspected patients in AGMP since March 2020, I have been tested five times after encounter using compromised PPE – all negative. One time my shield and N 95 was accidentally taken down by an assistant and the patient coughed right in my face.
    I recommend against taking mRNA based vaccine in people younger than 70 until (as you called it ) “more natural” vaccines available here. Here.
    Thanks for the exchange of opinions.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  53. @That Would Be Telling

    that thalidomide leaves such a bitter aftertaste. i’ll make sure to wash it down with some vioxx next time.

  54. @That Would Be Telling

    that’s all very nice.

    so why this?:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

    [hahaha, cnbc on unz!]

    ““It is very rare for a blanket immunity law to be passed,” said Rogge Dunn, a Dallas labor and employment attorney. “Pharmaceutical companies typically aren’t offered much liability protection under the law.“

    ••••••••••

    “Congress created a fund specifically to help cover lost wages and out-of-pocket medical expenses for people who have been irreparably harmed by a “covered countermeasure,” such as a vaccine. But it is difficult to use and rarely pays. Attorneys say it has compensated less than 6% of the claims filed in the last decade.”

    ••••••••••••

    if all is so fine, why have there been claims in the last decade for vaccines developed over years and decades?

    ••••••••••••

    if i cook you dinner, you can go ahead and sue me any time you want.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  55. @Alb

    Thanks for the RNA to DNA explanation. All I had heard, from a med student, was that the mRNA does not enter the nucleus, which sounded slightly odd since I hear it does leave it.

    Single strands of mRNA leave the nucleus, but as far as I know those strands get chopped up into individual nucleotides before going back to the nucleus, that’s after all how you get arbitrary sequences of them transcribed from DNA to mRNA. And those individual nucleotides can’t carry a message, so perhaps no ‘m’ in front of the RNA (pedantically: there’s also transfer RNA which is used to go from mRNA to proteins). As for your concerns about the brain, I have no knowledge of how inflammation there is thought or known to happen and I wonder how we might know, it’s like how testing of testes was done by one group in the PRC with cadavers, most people aren’t eager to get their junk or brains cut in half for SCIENCE!!!

    But absent @JasonT’s unsubstantiated claim about how far mRNA therapeutics have become, both in psudeo-mRNA lasting indefinitely and a so called vaccine evading the immune system entirely and therefore pumping out spike proteins indefinitely … actually, even then you need to calculate issues of scale. How many cells of each of these three scenarios will be pumping out spike proteins, if any except when the cells in question get destroyed either by the direction action of the virus, perhaps using up too much of a cell’s membrane, or getting zapped by the immune system.

    And a cell that’s been hijacked indefinitely is going to be stressed; we don’t care about that for true vaccines because part of the plan is that the cells eventually get zapped. But if not, the mRNA gets disassembled for recycling in due course, unless it’s some sort psudeo-mRNA that isn’t affected by the enzymes that cleave mRNA strands.

    One thing we can say is that an honest vaccine should release orders of magnitude fewer spike proteins than an infection of a relatively unbounded number of cells, then apply the toxicoligist’s maxim “the dose makes the poison,” at which point theory ends, and we shift to empiricism, look at the safety results of clinical trials. And bless those brave enough to participate, for that’s how you discover the most common side effects. Here are the Phase III trial protocols for Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech.

    For Moderna, look at page 6 for summaries of the contacts the company has with its subjects, they are clinical visits, e(lectronic)Diaries, and phone calls, and page 12 covers Safety Assessments in brief. From page 73:

    8.3. Safety Definitions and Procedures

    8.3.1. Adverse Event

    An AE is defined as any untoward medical occurrence associated with the use of a drug in humans, whether or not considered drug related.

    A treatment-emergent AE (TEAE) is defined as any event not present before exposure to IP or any event already present that worsens in intensity or frequency after exposure.

    Events Meeting the Adverse Event Definition

    • Exacerbation of a chronic or intermittent pre-existing condition including either an increase in frequency and/or intensity of the condition.

    • New conditions detected or diagnosed after the first dose of IP even though they may have been present before the start of the study.

    Headache is a solicited adverse reaction (AR; see table starting on page 75), but those are only checked for seven days after each injection (the day plus six after), unless they continue beyong that period. Fatigue is another that might be related to your concern. Some of the apendices at the end are interesting or present schedules in tabular form. “Unsolicited” adverse events are checked for 28 days after each injection, and there’s other forms of followups.

    Pfizer/BioNTech’s is more complicated because it covers all three phases of trials, and by the time it was updated, there were still two BioNTech vaccine candidated being tested, they started with three. It also doesn’t go into as many details as the Moderna one does; Pfizer is of course very experienced in doing clinical trials, this is Moderna’s first Phase III trial.

    The next step if you want to find out more is to go over the “sponsor” (these companies) and FDA staff reports prepared for the advisory comittee meetings, and for that matter the meetings were live screened so if you’ve got eight plus hours to kill for each one…. See these pages for all of this, Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna. They detail the results of the studies as of when the EUA applications were made, November 20th and 30th, and will tell you about the adverse events experienced by the study populations.

    • Replies: @Alb
  56. and one more thing…

    these companies are making a profit from a ¡¡¡GLOBAL PANDEMIC™!!!

    that just strikes me as very unethical. really crappy, actually.

  57. @RT

    We are denied the choice other contries have. Including memebers of EU, e.g. Hungary, Estonia etc.

    Eh? If they’re using the EU’s mechanism of approval, which Hungary I remember was talking about sidestepping much to the “we’re all in this together” EU’s disdain (that is, you must share our pain at massively screwing up vaccine procurement), they have exactly what we in the USA have, Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna’s, Comirnaty being the trade name for tozinameran codenamed BNT162b2 AKA the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. This is Moderna’s first product to make it out the door, they aren’t bothering with a trade name aside from “Moderna COVID-19 vaccine” or “COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna” as the EU’s European Medicines Agency (EMA) puts it on that page.

    Doing some searching right now, Hungary has received 6,000 doses of Sputnik-V, but hasn’t made a decision about mass vaccination using it, officially because its still being tested (OK, there are some follow up trials registered on ClinicalTrials.gov), but of course also because Russia just doesn’t have hardly enough doses of its own manufacture. Otherwise it’s getting the approved mRNA vaccines. Couldn’t find anything about Estonia except that it has only gotten Pfizer/BioNTech, but per this article for example is expecting 1,200 doses from Moderna soon, which gives many details about their vaccinations to date. It only has a population of 1.3 million so it’s got a small number of facts to track, the US has only eight states and D.C. with fewer people, and five of them are large in terms of land area.

  58. @the fat controller

    How have you forgotten that the FDA is famous for not approving thalidomide? As for the CNBC article, the propaganda is weighted towards the front, the details that explain what’s really going on towards the end. Mostly it’s anti-Trump FUD, they will be singing a different tune as soon as Biden gets in the White House and shifts our vaccine strategy to the Third World style.

    if all is so fine, why have there been claims in the last decade for vaccines developed over years and decades?

    Who’s saying all is “fine?” Look in my comment history and you’ll see me saying many times if you give a vaccine, or any drug to millions of people, some will be maimed and killed. There are no risk free options available to us. I haven’t tried doing an analysis, but keeping rough track of “(young) person died after getting COVID-19 vaccine!!!” scare stories, Dumbo’s “now the vaccine has already killed quite a few under 40.” is still much less than the number under 40 who’ve been killed by the virus in my immediate not super high population area.

    But please do read the entire article, there have been only 499 claim attempts because the “countermeasures” have up to now with one exception been for obscure stuff that very few people get unless perhaps they’re in the military. And as usual people aren’t applying the lesson of the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect which even you acknowledge in a way, it has for example this gem, “This fund typically only deals with vaccines you probably would never get, like the H1N1 and anthrax vaccines.” Obviously that’s true for the anthrax vaccine again excepting the military, but the monovalent (for only one strain) 2009 H1N1 vaccine was mass produced, my father and I got it at Walmart in the season of swine flu.

    And let me readdress the “years of development” canard, normal vaccine development is held up by researchers waiting for their next grant, writing grant proposals, etc., drug companies taking their time to decide if they’re going to risk millions and billions of dollars on clinical trials, etc. And Moderna indeed took some time to get their trials going, because January 13th was way too early for a fire to be lit under our ruling trash. The only short cuts taken in the two mRNA vaccines are starting animal trials in parallel with human Phase I trials, and using the long existing Emergency Use Authorization process to make these vaccines available now instead of in months.

    Of course, Operation Warp Speed (OWS) and companies like Pfizer which previously refused to do anything with OWS until they got smashed by supply chain problems are paying to make lots of doses before EUAs, if a drug doesn’t pan out in a Phase III trial it’s a small cost compared to the stunts the EU did with vaccine procurement. A shortcut of course, but not in the “this vaccine is untested!!!” sense. Undertested except, for, you know, there being an emergency and all as you may have noticed, yes. But that’s getting fixed in real time as the Phase I-III trials continue to run, and millions of people get vaccinated in the so called Phase IV of a drug or biologic’s history.

    these companies are making a profit from a ¡¡¡GLOBAL PANDEMIC™!!!

    that just strikes me as very unethical. really crappy, actually.

    You want an end to drug and vaccine development (well, you’d like the latter or both based on what you’ve said)? End profit in the industry, enjoy your rations of made in India or the PRC generic drugs.

    • Replies: @the fat controller
  59. @That Would Be Telling

    And the vaccines can be easily checked for that..

    When are you aware of anyone bring out the 80 below zero multi-use container and lab testing it, before administering it?

    Its CRISPR-derived technology, which is a treatment vector specifically intended for Gene-Editing, so you are being deliberately obtuse about your denials.

    The key to CRISPR is the many flavours of “Cas” proteins found in bacteria, where they help defend against viruses. This protein can easily be programmed to find and bind to almost any desired target sequence, simply by giving it a piece of RNA to guide it in its search.

    When the CRISPR Cas9 protein is added to a cell along with a piece of guide RNA, the Cas9 protein hooks up with the guide RNA and then moves along the strands of DNA until it finds and binds to a 20-DNA-letter long sequence that matches part of the guide RNA sequence. That’s impressive, given that the DNA packed into each of our cells has six billion letters and is two metres long.

    This is by far the most common use of CRISPR. It’s called genome editing – or gene editing

    Its a CRISPR process, not a traditional vaccine – this is so new that it is effectively experimental, and no possible long term testing has , or could be, been done – even if you trust the processes of the manufacturer and the contents of the vial.

    The refusal to call the process what it actually is, and to attempt to conflate it with traditional vaccinations (not needing sub 80- temps to preserve efficacy) that are familiar to everyone at this point, is all I need to know to tell me its never going into my veins.

    Am I certain that it will not eventually be proven 100% safe and miraculous – absolutely not.

    I simply have no reason to partake of a CRISPR experiment when I already had the Covid virus, was back to normal in a few days with no medical treatment whatsoever, and had no long term symptoms except for altered taste and an odd altered, chemical smell for several months.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  60. @That Would Be Telling

    people aren’t nice enough to help each other without making a buck?

    why would you want to be protected for continued existence in such a place?

    “help! i’m in quicksand”
    “sure, got \$20?”

    compare and contrast:

    commies – It wasn’t just the discovery of insulin that has made Banting so revered – it’s his character. When the Nobel Prize was awarded only to him and his associated John MacLeod, he was furious that the contributions of the other members of his team had not been recognised. Both Banting and MacLeod shared their prize money with others who had worked on the discovery.

    Discovering insulin could have made Banting very rich, but he decided to give the patent away for free. He wanted insulin to be available to everyone, not held out of reach at exorbitant prices.

    In Banting’s honor, World Diabetes Day is held every year on November 14 – Banting’s birthday.

    http://www.diabetescommunity.com/blog/2015/11/frederick-banting-insulin

    •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

    cappies – Pfizer CEO sold \$5.6 million of stock as company announced vaccine data that sent shares soaring

    Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla sold almost \$5.6 million worth of stock on Monday, the same day the drugmaker announced positive early data on its experimental coronavirus vaccine that sent shares soaring.


    http://www.cnbc.com /2020/11/11/coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-ceo-sold-5point6-million-of-stock-as-company-announced-positive-data.html

    •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

    i’m sure november 11th will one day be known as al bourla day in honour of such fine stock (pun intended).

  61. Kelso says:
    @anon

    Would that make Gilad a victim?
    That’s very Jewish.

  62. Polemos says:
    @Brás Cubas

    That’s a good point! It is exactly because Nature has Its indifference that people knowing Its order now can choose the path of making such weapons to kill off and away so many unique perspectives within It. Only . . .

    [MORE]

    The same world whose order makes our weapons work is the same world whose order facilitates our awareness of achievement and joy and friendship. I (think I) get the point you are making, and I don’t intend to make too profound what’s probably just a simple, common sense idea. Whether weapon or tool, whether stick or rope, does the deeper question whether there is something worse than death or greater than life disturb how we want to use tools or weapons to preserve life or facilitate death?

    Because so many struggle so much with how to think about death, they are easy with giving death, and especially when they can say they give death to preserve life. While no one’s life is a life disconnected from the rest of the universe, yet for every one, their own death seems entirely their own. Perspective shifts this.

    You wrote ‘unnatural’ in quotes, and I take it to highlight an ironic use. Letting go of the perspective of my own subjectivity erases the subjectively distinctive aspect of the natural: all of what humans make through artifice flows from this clustered dustball of star corpses as have the biotic surfaces fruiting human bodies (and human corpses) flowed from the same, while all this as complement sings as one in harmonies of holograms resonating across hyperdimensional modalities all along the cosmological horizon. Metal and virtual machines whom humans participate in birthing are further skins of organizational logics endemic not only within the human skins of this planet but every skin on every planet, asteroid, or hyperthreading jet of cosmic rays. Everything born or built here on Earth comprises earthmined skins responding to a constant electromagnetic bathing from great Sol, pulsing and spinning and belching in the center of a knot of many nearby dancers, this knot itself a small fractal reflection of much larger rhythms humming among galaxies, clusters and far-flung voidstars.

    From that more cosmic scale, when one looks at a human nervous system creating those of us having these conversations and a distributed neural net of fractal self-awarenesses interpellating across a global IoTs, one sees the human commentator as the viral particle and Unity as the dreaming Subject. The truly vast see the small so vastly smaller than the small appear to themselves that they struggle to see the small difference at all.

    So, if I must understand my universe that awoke within me such depths of genuine joy and wrenching anguish spins with such parafinite endlessness with regard to the cruelty of doompolluters or the eudaimonia of joybringers, I must shift my perspective until I understand who I am within it, what is invariant in me and it whether seen from the vastness of All or the emptiness within me.

    I’m sorry if this doesn’t make sense. There are probably easier ways to say what I mean to convey. I am also using this as an opportunity to resolve multiple threads of thinking about many interrelated topics, or maybe just to pose the issues for me that your point contacts in my thoughts and intentions. I am also a cat and I cannot refuse to play with spools and threads.

  63. Concerning m-RNA vaccines:

    I have a major in theoretical Biophysics, although I have not been working in that field for 10ish years.

    1: I have a number of issues with the mRNA vaccines, however, insertion into host genomes is not one of them. Essentially, the cellular core (where DNA is located in) will represent a sizeable (but not impermeable) boundary towards intrusion of mRNA into it. In addition, cells normally lack the enzymes needed to reverse transcribe mRNA to DNA and then insert it into the DNA, although a lot of bets could be off if the cells is simultaneously invaded by live RNA virus.
    It should be noted that, in terms of virus load, the human gene code looks more like the download folder of the average male teenager, then like some pristine virus free holy writ.

    2: Concerns about adverse reactions to the PEG Pfizer uses to actually get the mRNA into the cell are something I find highly valid.

    3: There is an ongoing concern over a possible homology between human syncitin, iirc essential for placenta formation, and viral spike proteins, which could lead to an immune reaction to placenta formation and thus infertility. I do not particularly buy into this (it seems fairly far fetched to me) but causing infertility would be overlooked during rushed trials.

    4: I do not, in general, get why we are rolling out a pretty intensely untested vaccine, against a not that deadly disease, with an entirely new technology. I definitly see plenty of potential in mRNA insertion, but I would prefer a less massive first practical application on humans.

    5: Costs/adjuvates are kind of a wash. M-RNA is kind of hard to keep stable, as such what you save in production costs is partly lost in storage/transportation costs etc. Biontech vaccine also has adjuvants, unless they have recently changed it.

    6: Russian vaccine isnt exactly tried and tested technology either, but there have, iirc, been 3 previous vaccines based on adenoviral vectors, which turned out to work ok, but the one I know most about was one for animals against rabies (given that rabies is essentially a death sentence after onset of symptones, and given that this vaccine was used on animals not humans, I am fine with using a new technology there) it is more “natural” then the mRNA insertion however.
    There are also Russian adenoviral vaccine for the military against certain hemorrhagic fevers (another disease with a very high fatality rate, where I personally would be more open to accept the risk of a not quite that tested technology), but these arent rolled out broadly within the confines of the Russian military either.

    7: Russian vaccine was available relatively quickly because Gamileya is public owned, and not quite as beholden to profit interests. Researches there simply have other incentives then western mega pharma companies.
    Vaccines are typically not a very profitable thing to make, so western companies lost quite a bit of competence there because it does not actually pay that well.
    Russian state companies are also kind of “paranoid” about bio warfare being unleashed against them, and parts of the Russian state see Covid as a usefull live fire drill.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  64. @Trial by Wombat

    When are you aware of anyone bring out the 80 below zero multi-use container and lab testing it, before administering it?

    You can always do this with the residue in a vial.

    Its CRISPR-derived technology, which is a treatment vector specifically intended for Gene-Editing, so you are being deliberately obtuse about your denials.

    Nope, you’ve spun a complete fantasy about how these mRNA vaccine have been developed. Citation Needed for why they would bother with messy CRISPR when they have published mRNA sequences to start with.

    The refusal to call the process what it actually is, and to attempt to conflate it with traditional vaccinations (not needing sub 80- temps to preserve efficacy) that are familiar to everyone at this point, is all I need to know to tell me its never going into my veins.

    So get the Moderna vaccine, which has a much better technology base and only requires “storage at the temperature of a standard medical refrigerator of 2–8 C (36–46 F) for up to 30 days or −20 C (−4 F) for up to four months.” For that matter, BioNTech’s vaccine is good for five days at medial refrigerator temperatures after defrosting. Or wait for a much more messy virus vector vaccine to be approved for where you live, or maybe Novavax’s protein plus adjuvant!!! later this year if it works, or Sanofi/GSK’s at the end of this year if they can make their’s work. Or just roll the dice with a “natural” infection of zillions of your cells with what’s likely an accidentally released gain of function experiment.

  65. @Druid

    Bill Gates is no Edward Jenner!

    Indeed. Therefore it’s a good thing he and his wife have only funded some of the basic technology that’s later into COVID-19 vaccines, not done actual lab bench work on them.

  66. @Mightypeon

    Am in general agreement with what you said, except:

    3: There is an ongoing concern over a possible homology between human syncitin, iirc essential for placenta formation, and viral spike proteins, which could lead to an immune reaction to placenta formation and thus infertility. I do not particularly buy into this (it seems fairly far fetched to me) but causing infertility would be overlooked during rushed trials.

    The problem the advocates of this theory have (despite, as far as I know, the source of it being pig ignorant of COVID-19 vaccine technology in general (about antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE)) and clearly virtue signaling December 1st just in case one or more of these vaccines turns out bad) is explaining why a “natural” infection of this virus in zillions of your cells doesn’t cause this feared problem. We are after all implicitly running a huge and completely uncontrolled experiment on the entire world’s population by letting so many get infected by the wild type virus.

    But not being an immunologist I have no useful intuition about the dangers of each, and for example if we should have tried to make a spike protein that still works against SARS-CoV-2 but without a match however good or bad for syncytin-1. That there’s a good match is denied by a lot of people and groups, and with the ex-Pfizer exec and his medical advisor screwing up so badly with their first stated ADE concern us non-specialists are up in the air without for example doing a lot more research. And of course if the PRC/CCP’s deliberate unleashing of this virus on the rest of the world ends up sterilizing a bunch of women, we’ll be having words with them.

    4: I do not, in general, get why we are rolling out a pretty intensely untested vaccine, against a not that deadly disease, with an entirely new technology. I definitly see plenty of potential in mRNA insertion, but I would prefer a less massive first practical application on humans.

    It’s plenty deadly for those who it kills; see also the significant morbidities some survivors experiences. The elderly in particular who are the non-CDC preferred second priority; the first is front line medical staff who are the most scarce resource for hospital capacity. If you fail to sufficiently bend the curve, you start losing people at much higher rates from COVID-19 and anything else requiring those resources. Southern California has reached that point and somewhat beyond, my local area for 150 miles in all directions did for a while in the third wave to a thankfully lessor extent, good treatment only being denied for a day or so vs. days.

    So now we have more and more data from these two populations in the post-marketing Phase IV of these vaccines, and with FDA Emergency Use Applications (EUAs) being made on November 20th and 30th, ~50 and ~40 more days of data from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna’s Phase III trials. And so far so good, except perhaps for the syncytin-1 concern, and of course those who are rolling snake eyes when they get the vaccine.

    • Replies: @Mightypeon
  67. @That Would Be Telling

    You cant really compare Covids Case fatality rate with Rabies (second most deadly disease after Kreutzfeldt Jakob in humans, and thats probably because this particular encephalits is so rare there werent survivors yet) or Hemorraghic fevers.

    Like, if you are diagnosed with rabies, you are going to die of it.
    If you are diagnosed with hemorrarghic fever, live or dead is a coinflip.

    Taking a possible mRNA rabies vaccine, especially after exposure, is a no brainer.

    The reasonable reasoning for mRNA vaccine reaction =! other vaccine reaction would be that, in a “normal vaccine”, you are showing the immune system a considerable majority of the actual virus as far as parts are concerned. While with mRNA, you are showing only some or even one proteins. If you look at how antibody generating cells mature (essentially, the immune system has a “shooting range” equivalent where currently threatening targets are displayed, cells that show ability to latch to these targets are allowed to become antibody producers. Typically, there are mutliple targets in such a shooting range, with a spike protein mRNA based thing there would perhaps be just 1), you would, in that batch of cells produced by the immune system, very strongly select for a very strong, and perhaps not all that specific (in terms of it only hitting this particular spike protein) antibody response.

    There is also the “Immune system being about as unparanoid and sane as the Stalin Era NKVD” school of thought. According to this, immune systems have Stalin level degrees of habitual paranoia, and have adapted to variations displayed by pathogens by always attempted to attack a possible pathogen by several different pathways. No Pathogen in nature has only one attackable antigen, and an immune system that attempts a multi vectored attack (by for example attacking different surface proteins of a pathogen with different antibodies) will maintain more resistances and capabilities then an immune system that only attacks the most prevalent antigen, especially if these pathogens keep changing their surfaces (which a number of them can).
    Responding to any pathogenesis by figuring out who is actually a hostile antigen, and always assuming that any pathogenic invasion is accompanied by several new antigens turning up would be a pretty effective mechanism, that would likely be evolutionarily selected.
    If you only show a single antigen, the immune system could be like “crap, I only found, identified and shot 1 Nazi Spy, but Comrade Stalin demands I shoot at least 3 or be shot myself. I am thus going to shoot the next 2 people I meet in the face.”
    The 2 extra shootings would essentially be immune reactions against random stuff that may well be host owned, or trigger additional allergies.

    If you trigger the immune system on only the syncitin like spike protein you could end up with an overexxaggerated response to that which could well be more liable to conduct unfriendly fire on host cells.

    Another concern is that you would be strictly immunizing against the spike protein. Viruses display considerable flexibility on how their spike proteins are made. When a switchup happens, you are more likely having to vaccinate again.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  68. @JasonT

    It’s wise to read the fine article linked to in the propaganda article, because the authors of the latter correctly expect most people won’t bother. Turns out the outbreak started a day before they started their vaccination campaign (they have guesses or better as to why) and I guess you don’t remember that it takes perhaps eight days at the earliest for the first dose of a vaccine to have an effect?

    You’re going to have to do better to try to claim a cause and effect relationship, especially when we have as of reported to the CDC by last Friday as of 9 am 6,688,231 people who’ve gotten their first dose in the US, including 693,246 through the Federal Pharmacy Partnership for Long-Term Care Program (CVS and Walgreens fanning out to vaccinate people in long term care facilities; and these numbers will be updated later today). If it was as deadly as you claim, we’d have a lot more incidents; you’ve got your theory about utterly evil big pharma, I’ve got data on what their vaccines are actually not doing. See Steve Sailor’s latest for how numbers in Israel will soon deliver an acid test.

    • Thanks: gar manar nar
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  69. @Mightypeon

    You cant really compare Covids Case fatality rate with Rabies (second most deadly disease after Kreutzfeldt Jakob in humans, and thats probably because this particular encephalits is so rare there werent survivors yet) or Hemorraghic fevers.

    Then it’s a good case I’m not doing that?

    The reasonable reasoning for mRNA vaccine reaction =! other vaccine reaction would be that, in a “normal vaccine”, you are showing the immune system a considerable majority of the actual virus as far as parts are concerned. While with mRNA, you are showing only some or even one proteins….

    Define “normal vaccine.” Is the annual flu one “normal?” That said, of course the flu isn’t a good example because the body simply can’t produce an “eternal” response to that family of viruses. But your complaints, some of which have merit, are about all COVID-19 vaccines that are anywhere near getting some level of approval except for Sinovac’s CoronaVac, an inactivated whole virus one. Everyone else is doing just the spike protein in one way or another.

    If you look at how antibody generating cells mature (essentially, the immune system has a “shooting range” equivalent where currently threatening targets are displayed, cells that show ability to latch to these targets are allowed to become antibody producers. Typically, there are mutliple targets in such a shooting range, with a spike protein mRNA based thing there would perhaps be just 1)

    You have any data to back up your supposition that out immune systems target only one epitope in the spike protein? But what I’ve read, natural immunity targets the spike protein and the nuclecapsid one, so, yes, more targets than the Western vaccine. But for now with speed of the essence, the West is only doing precision vaccines (antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) is a reason to be very wary of using the wild type vaccine for a whole virus inactivated one, don’t know if Sinovac addressed this known issue with SARS type coronaviruses), and we certainly don’t have time now to try to create an attenuated live virus vaccine.

    It’s always been in the cards we may have to create and administer a second vaccine sometime in this period, for example as you note if the current strain mutates enough. If enough people get immunity naturally or through vaccines the virus will come under selection pressure, and that’s guessed to be the cause of the U.K. mutation in the small, from one person who wasn’t able to clear the virus in the normal amount of time, so various mutations competed against each other.

    If you trigger the immune system on only the syncitin like spike protein

    Citation Needed? Because the people worried about this only say a portion of the spike protein appears to them to be like a portion of the syncytin-1 protein, or so I understand.

    The only other data I have is some company harvesting antibodies doesn’t want them from people who’ve gotten the vaccine, they want antibodies against the nucleocapsid protein, either only them as the MSM level article implied, or I would guess both.

  70. @JasonT

    in line with the strength of the usual flu, though a bit stronger

    Maybe weaker, as it kills 10% as many in the under 17 cohort as flu.

  71. @That Would Be Telling

    Where on earth did you learn such obvious and falsifiable lies?

    Even After Getting Vaccinated, You Could Still Infect Others

    Once you get the vaccine, can you just go back to your normal life full of hugging people and not wearing a mask? [Good question]

    If only we knew for sure. [So, no, LOL] And we don’t know because there are some things that got skipped over when scientists went and made a vaccine faster than anyone thought possible. Nice-to-know details were pushed to the back burner in a rush to make sure the new vaccines would be safe and effective. And one of those details is whether the vaccines keep people from spreading COVID-19 or whether they just keep those who do contract it from getting sick.

    [MORE]


    But getting those questions answered fast came at the expense of answering other questions — like whether vaccinated people can still spread the virus.

    So, experts are being careful — balancing their excitement and relief with caution that you can’t just switch off 2020 Mode and return to a normal state of being. They need a little more time to know for sure.

    If someone was protected from symptoms of COVID-19 but still capable of spreading it, it wouldn’t be that shocking.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  72. @Altai

    the Orthodox of not going along with social distancing with everyone else

    utter futility of social distancing measures with so many Orthodox and their resistance to going along with the plan

    Based Jews.

  73. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Your original claim was:

    The problem is that even Pfizer and Moderna make the most modest of claims for their vaccines; i.e. that the vaccines shorten the hospital stay by a few days. Otherwise, bupkis. They don’t prevent infection, transmission, or severe illness.

    And you respond by a ransom note quote of my words, leaving out the critical next bit:

    Yes, blocking transmission is not an endpoint in their Phase III trials because that’s very hard to prove, you just have to hope based on what we generally know and serological (blood) tests, but they most certainly do the other two as explicit endpoints.

    Creating a silly strawman which you then demolish with great gusto, while letting the other lies go undefended.

  74. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:

    Among the ultra-Orthodox sector, there was a 16-fold increase in the number of verified people within four weeks: this is a doubling every week – from 100 verified people per day (per million people) to 1,600 verified people, and all within a month. Such a growth rate is not seen throughout the plague and is probably due at least in part to the British mutant. It is estimated that the British mutant is about 20% of all ultra-Orthodox verified.”

    How odd, Eastern Gypsies seem to be afflicted at the exact same rate – hopefully BB is somewhere safe.

  75. Dumbo says:

    It’s just the flu, bro. And I say that unironically.

    • Replies: @anon
  76. Nope, you’ve spun a complete fantasy about how these mRNA vaccine have been developed. Citation Needed for why they would bother with messy CRISPR when they have published mRNA sequences to start with.

    It is absolutely piggybacked upon the genetic delivery vehicle developed with CRISPR and you cannot possibly not know that with even a passing expertise. Its like suggesting you invented the car because you bought a Buick dealership.

    The lack of acknowledgement is typical of what is seen in patent defense schemes, and the RNA treatments had already been pre-sold to Biomedical and private funders, long before anyone had ever encountered Covid-19.

    Also, a word is only as precise as its definition. Since RNA can reprogram cells, and turn them into any other kind of stem cell permanently, I would consider this effectively a genetic editing capability by any rational definition.

    Nothing about RNA treatment development / patent schema is Jonas Salk-ian, or intended as altruisitic – quite the opposite, it has been marked from the absolute onset by massive internal strategic conflict for patent credit, and financial control, and without a single approved treatment, the patent controllers are already Billionaires.

    Eventually, if adopted, this will be an industry valued the Trillions – effectively the most valuable business in the history of the planet. The Problem that these patent holders and researchers had was, no one would approve their RNA treatments for general use.

    Providentially, one would almost need a worldwide pandemic event in which the leaders of the planet come begging and offering the entire public treasuries and coercive state power to force adoption and proliferation of this tech collecting dust on the shelf..

    Never let a crisis go to waste is potentially a very short walk to manufacturing the crisis.

    So get the Moderna vaccine

    Get the Johnson&Johnson – if not already immune – and avoid being a test dummy.

    The prime cautionary observation of this entire ill-managed social engineering has been that NO ONE should be sheltering or taking experimental treatments unless and until they have been tested first for natural immunity, antibodies, T cells. The entire diabolical lockdown process and economic disaster is man-made and unnecessary for these people, who constitute a majority or super-majority of the population in many locales, for some time now.

    The pretend ignorance on behalf of so-called public health officials on this aspect of medical testing can really only be explained, in my view, by a truly dogged determination not the let the situation ‘go to waste’ – or the population escape its edicts- before they achieve their own intended purposes.

    Or just roll the dice with a “natural” infection of zillions of your cells with what’s likely an accidentally released gain of function experiment.

    “accidentally”

    Funny you should mention that – The financial interests behind the research labs and guiding public / private entities, were investing in RNA tech while underlings arranged funding for Covidian type Gain-of-Function experiments, across the planet. What would some devious people potentially do for total control of the worlds population, and Trillions of dollars in riches?

    In the near term, the initial hurdle is getting buy-in and ensuring govt coercion to compel adoption, but in the long term, once the few adverse voices are cowed and the mass dispersal completed, its a short traverse to the point at which no one will be able to buy, sell, work, travel or conduct business without submitting to these mandatory genetic ‘treatments’, under the control of financial comptrollers that make Amazon look like Elmer’s Tire Shop.

    There is little to no risk, since the worlds peoples immediately descend into conflicting blame and fratricide, which acts as ideal cover.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  77. @Trial by Wombat

    Nope, you’ve spun a complete fantasy about how these mRNA vaccine have been developed. Citation Needed for why they would bother with messy CRISPR when they have published mRNA sequences to start with.

    It is absolutely piggybacked upon the genetic delivery vehicle developed with CRISPR and you cannot possibly not know that with even a passing expertise.

    With time machines? Because you’re telling us the reason Moderna needed so much money was it was founded before CRISPR became a thing. And I suppose BioNTech needed another couple of years before that to finish getting the Nazi’s time machine to work.

    Again, Citation Needed, put up or I would say shut up, but this is Unz.com where people are allowed to lie without end as a better alternative to invidious censorship.

    • Replies: @Trial by Wombat
  78. anon[365] • Disclaimer says:

    Trial by Wombat knows his IP rackets. TKO victory over That would be Telling’s Moderna hasbara!

  79. @That Would Be Telling

    Lol, someone got angry when they googled for a definition of ”obtuse”, i see.

    I dont parley with those who assert I am a liar, I was far more diplomatic in my verbage.

  80. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dumbo

    Corona-deniers like you should be put in internment camps, until you can get your forced vaccination. You can’t be allowed to endanger other people through your irresponsible behaviour.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  81. Thoughts says:
    @JasonT

    Don’t worry Jason, we believe you, not the other dude

    Erring on the side of caution is always the correct course of action

  82. journey80 says:
    @Anon

    That was my first reaction: wait, what? Aren’t Jews smarter than the rest of us?

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  83. Dumbo says:
    @anon

    LOL. Yeah it’s people like you that the new Soviet-Medical-Tech authoritarian state needs.

    Good work, comrade! 😀

  84. Dumbo says:
    @journey80

    No they aren’t. They are just more cunning, which is not the same thing.

  85. @That Would Be Telling

    ‘…See Steve Sailor’s latest for how numbers in Israel will soon deliver an acid test.’

    I’m afraid that makes me root for failure.

  86. Gemjunior says:
    @Sirius

    I read the very same thing in a medical article on medline or pubmed. Jason T just does a good job of simplifying all the jargon. There is a good video on the “far right extremest” website Renegade Tribune with a doctor explaining all this and she has references to the articles. I will find out her name and post it. One thing for sure – I don’t need any cytokine storm on top of a virus. The extreme desire for control and the level of evil in these people never ceases to amaze me.

  87. If Covid mutates robustly, then there exists a spectrum of mutations waiting in the wings to take over the position of “Dominant Strain”, when the vaccine weeds out both the dominant strain and all mutations susceptible to the vaccine. Much the same situation as is seen in the emergence of anti-biotic resistant bacteria. Thus the vaccine might very well accelerate the spread of the pandemic.

    And as is seen with the British variant, not only will the surviving mutations be resistant or immune to the vaccine, the other characteristics of the virus — communicability and lethality among them — change as well, perhaps for the worse.

    The best laid plans of mice and men …

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  88. @Polemos

    If Covid mutates robustly, then there exists a spectrum of mutations waiting in the wings to take over the position of “Dominant Strain” when the vaccine weeds out both the dominant strain and all mutations susceptible to the vaccine. Much the same situation as is seen in the emergence of anti-biotic resistant bacteria. Thus the vaccine might very well accelerate the spread and lethality of the pandemic.

    And as is seen with the British variant, not only may the surviving mutations be resistant or immune to the vaccine, the other characteristics of the virus — communicability and lethality among them — may change as well, perhaps for the worse.

    The best laid plans of mice and men …

  89. @Jeff Davis

    If Covid mutates robustly

    It doesn’t, has a unique proofreading mechanism lacking in all other RNA virus families.

    then there exists a spectrum of mutations waiting in the wings to take over the position of “Dominant Strain”, when the vaccine weeds out both the dominant strain and all mutations susceptible to the vaccine. Much the same situation as is seen in the emergence of anti-biotic resistant bacteria.

    Except for the vaccine weeds out, everything above is wrong, although the first bit is just a difference in the process. Once the virus comes under transmission selection pressure, mutations to escape whatever is preventing it like a vaccination or natural immunity will be favored, if they are possible. If the immune system latches onto one conserved epitope, it’s game over for the virus.

    Thus the vaccine might very well accelerate the spread of the pandemic.

    It would be a restart, and note all the major vaccines except Sinovac’s CoronaVac target only the spike protein, so if immunity from the nucleocapsid is robust, we just have to start all over immunizing people who never got natural immunity. Which has always been a possiblity in the cards, given that it’s a novel pathogen.

    And as is seen with the British variant, not only will the surviving mutations be resistant or immune to the vaccine

    Citation Needed, I have not been following this closely, but I don’t know of anyone with evidence saying that yet, and as I recall Pfizer has done some experiments recently.

    the other characteristics of the virus — communicability and lethality among them — change as well, perhaps for the worse.

    And perhaps for the better. “It’s not the job of a virus to make people deathly ill: it’s the job of a virus to make more virus.” – Derek “Things I Won’t Work With” Lowe.

  90. Medici says:
    @JasonT

    1000% right. I wish your words could be written in the sky…

  91. @Polemos

    The fact that we have military bioweapons labs studying these viruses is a BIG SMOKING GUN!

    Instead of trying to understand the details of viruses and vaccines, we should learn the details of our military bioweapons research, and also the nature and power of war propaganda, which apparently has brainwashed most people.

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