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If insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results, then the British Labour Party is institutionally insane and beyond recovery.

Labour’s leadership candidates didn’t learn a thing from their Party’s humiliating electoral defeat last month. Instead of returning to universal anti racist politics consistent with so-called ‘Labour values,’ the compromised contenders for party leadership bow to the demands made by the Board of Deputies of British Jews, a self-elected pressure group that claims to represent 0.5% of the British public. Our Labour leadership candidates have attended to whims uttered by a tiny privileged voice while ignoring at least 99.5% of the British public. ‘For the very few and no one else,’ falls short of describing this political suicide.

This weekend, Labour’s first leadership hustings in Liverpool provided another spectacular display of the candidates’ spineless and unprincipled behaviour. Each waited his or her turn to utter embarrassing statements that they hoped would appease their party’s bitterest enemy.

During the event, leadership candidate Jess Phillips took a furious swipe at her rivals’ ‘alleged silence over anti-Semitism.’ She claimed that Labour‘s failure on antisemitism had lost the party its “moral high ground” in the battle against racism. She referred in her comments to Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Sir Keir Starmer, who had all been part of Corbyn’s team.

Emily Thornberry, who just a week ago was on “her hands and knees” asking for Jewish “forgiveness,” hit back at the accusations, saying she has always been clear that antisemitism “undermines us as a party.” Vowing to kick out so-called ‘antisemites,’ she said: “What the Israeli government is doing at the moment is completely unacceptable. But that is not the fault of the Jews.”

Someone should remind the ‘kneeling enthusiast’ that in his entire career, Corbyn never criticised Jews, Judaism or Jewishness. He did criticise Israel and Zionism, while making a clear distinction between Jews and Zionism. It is this critique of Israel and its politics that made Corbyn and the party ‘antisemitic’ in the eyes of the Zionist pressure groups. If Thornberry insists on getting on her hands and knees to ask for pardon, she ought to understand the ‘fault’ that has been attached to her party, otherwise, her conduct fits too well with the definition of insanity.

Frontrunner Sir Keir Starmer, candidate Rebecca Long-Bailey and candidate Lisa Nandy all repeated the same line. Each vowed to repair Labour’s relationships with British Jews. There is nothing inherently wrong with altering the Party’s appeal to Jews but the leadership candidates must have failed to notice that Corbyn wasted his political energy as a Party leader trying to do just that.

In the early stages of his leadership, Corbyn’s popularity was the result of the false perception that he was an ideologically principled leader. It was Corbyn’s anti war stand, opposition to Anglo-American imperialism and Zionism that so many liked. As time passed, it became clear that Corbyn, the person, had little or nothing in common with his revolutionary image. The man zigzagged around every possible topic including antisemitism and Zionism, let alone Brexit. The man who at one stage was perceived as a ‘Left Icon’ publicly transformed into a caricature of a political ‘left over.’ Corbyn lost the election because he was unfit to dwell in Number 10. The Brits realised that if Corbyn couldn’t handle a tiny foreign lobby, he would struggle to deal with Putin.

But there was a lesson entangled in Corbyn’s political demise. When Corbyn showed a bit of willingness to resist the Lobby’s pressure, his public support grew dramatically. Two weeks before the election, while being interviewed by BBC’s Andrew Neil, Corbyn refused to apologise to the Jewish community. He took a firm stand and upheld a universal anti racist approach to discrimination. The spike in the polls was immediate. In some of the polls Labour halved the gap with the Tories. At the time, I was skeptical about Corbyn’s bravery. I thought his reaction was likely accidental. Perhaps he wasn’t prepared for the question and forgot to crawl on demand. It only took a few days before Corbyn and his shadow chancellor reverted to their usual apologetic take on the matter: the rest is history. Corbyn’s Labour suffered its worst electoral defeat in 84 years.

Jeremy Corbyn interviewed by BBC’s Andrew Neil

This week we learned that Labour’s leadership candidates haven’t learned a thing. ‘Insanely’ they repeated Corbyn’s mistakes maybe expecting different results. Instead of producing a firm position consistent with their Party’s universal ideology, they competed to appease the whims and demands of one hostile foreign lobby.

As in every tragic story, there was a glimpse of hope: MP Diane Abbott reported in a tweet from the Liverpool hustings that “Richard Burgon gets the most applause of anyone at the Liverpool deputy leadership hustings for his thoughtful response on the anti-semitism issue.”

Watching Deputy leader candidate Richard Burgon comments reveals that his seemingly firm stand against the ‘antisemitism blitz,’ did indeed receive warm applause from the Labour party members in the room.

Watch Richard Burgon’s attempt at reason:

However, a careful listen to Burgon’s position clarifies that his stand on the issue is even more ridiculous than that of the other candidates. Burgon refuses to sign the BOD’s demands because he wants to work with the BOD as well as ‘all other Jewish organisations.” Burgon was referring particularly to the “minority within the minority, whether it would be LGBT Jewish people or Black Jewish people…”

ORDER IT NOW

The party that claimed to act for ‘the many not the few’ is now concerned with 5% (considered the demographics of sexual orientation and gender identity within western society) of the 0.5% of the entire British population. In mathematical terms, Burgon rejects the BOD’s demands because he is concerned with a population that comprises 0.000025 of the country’s entire population. I haven’t bothered to look at the percentage of Black Jews in Britain as there is no indication that such a community exists or is at all organized in Britain. And if it does exist, it has yet to oppose the BOD’s alleged hegemony.

Rather than looking for a ‘minority within a minority’ to flirt with, Burgon and the Labour party would do well to reinstate the Party’s flat rejection of racism of all types. If such an approach comes short of satisfying the Israel Lobby, the Labour party is free to continue without their approval. This is the only meaning of acting as a true opposition party.

It all paints a very grim picture. The Labour Party in its current form is an occupied zone. It is not occupied by Zionists, or Blairites, as we often hear, it is conquered by its own insanity. The positive reaction to Burgon’s comments suggests that Labour supporters are still attuned to their party’s ideas. It is just the leadership that has drifted.

(Republished from Gilad Atzmon by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. This is mildly comic.

    ‘…Emily Thornberry, who just a week ago was on “her hands and knees” asking for Jewish “forgiveness,” hit back at the accusations, saying she has always been clear that antisemitism “undermines us as a party.” Vowing to kick out so-called ‘antisemites,’ she said: “What the Israeli government is doing at the moment is completely unacceptable. But that is not the fault of the Jews…”’

    All those atrocities are commented at the behest of the Arab community in Israel.

    Who’da thought?

  2. @Colin Wright

    The tactic I see the Lobby use often is that when one dishes out a particularly strong criticism of Israel, they cry out ‘anti-Semitism!’ as they strike you down, ‘Why are you so obsessed with the only Jewish state in the world?’ they say, thereby actually being ‘anti-semitic’ themselves by associating Israel with Jews.

    I think this is how the dynamic goes, ostensibly right-wing parties support Israel no matter what they do, these parties are completely infiltrated with Neoconservatives and they are only right-wing in the economic sense – free markets so that our companies may monopolise and dominate. These parties may pay lip service to their base’s right-wing social values but they always concede ground to the opposition.

    Ostensibly left-wing parties are filled with socialist Jews, in these circles it is encouraged to virtue signal about the two-state solution, but not to actually push forward plans to make it happen (sanctioning Israel for building settlements). If you watch the Al-Jazeera exposé of the Lobby, you will see such a group operating within Labour.

    Corbyn was one of those flabby equality types, it seems impossible to me that he hates or even disliked Jews. His real crime was opposing the Israel Lobby. This episode should have alerted a significant number of Britons as to the power-wielders in this Nation.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  3. I’m not British, so I understand that there is much that I can’t understand about the politics and goings-on in Britain. But surely there is a choice other than voting Jewish v. other minority (“anti-tacism”) concerns! It would make sense for a Labor party in Britain to concentrate on the best interests of the majority, native British population, but that never happens! It seems like that is the situation in every western nation, and that IS insane.

  4. There is some important truths here.

    Thornberry and Phillips literally make your toes curl inside your shoes when you read some of their squishy, self-serving pleas being passed as principles.

    But I regard their words and behavior more a matter of sheer political incompetence than anything else. Incompetence is to be found in politicians far more than is commonly realized.

    As well, of course, we have corruption, as we saw with Tony Blair who literally became wealthy in gratitude for his helping kill a million Iraqis to please Aerial Sharon. Tony’s “New” Labour meant a party dedicated to lobby funds and strongly pro-Israel policies. Tony helped lead the charge against Corbyn, too.

    We saw no complaints about “anti-Semitism in Blair’s heyday. Somehow, after he left power, anti-Semitism just suddenly exploded inside the Labour Party the way Athena exploded from the forehead of Zeus. Extraordinary.

    I long defended Corbyn as a decent and humane politician – qualities frequently missing in the profession – and I still believe that of him. The idea that he was ever “anti-Semitic” is bitterly laughable. And as a matter of fact, we have very little active anti-Semitism today in the West, and much of what self-serving fraternal organizations call anti-Semitism is fair criticism of Israel’s often barbaric policies.

    The whole campaign against Corbyn was McCarthyism resuscitated for a new cause. It should have been confronted in exactly that way. Truth well-spoken can still be a powerful weapon. We have far too little of it in Western politics.

    In the end, he did prove weak vis-a-vis the Israel lobby, but that’s easier to judge from the outside than when you are being libeled and insulted and pelted with eggs week after week.

    The lobby uses an old established principle. Throw enough crap at the wall, and some it will stick. It is a standard principle of advertising and has always been instinctively applied by groups like Germany’s 1930s Brownshirts.

    The lobby and Israel do not want fairness and decency anywhere near the affairs of Israel. You are not allowed to be fair. You must be totally for Israel and against anyone Israel regards as undesirable.

    That was Corbyn sin. And he could not be allowed near power. And talk about external interference, several Israeli politicians, including Netanyahu, got directly involved in British politics over the period of Corbyn’s leadership.

    Israel – like a major part of racist cowboy America, notably all of Trump’s crowd holding pick-up truck meets in Walmart parking lots – simply has no use for genuine liberals or progressives.

    Why?

    The essence of being a genuine liberal is deep regard for human and democratic rights. Obviously, Israel could not exist as it is today were liberal views to hold any sway.

    And the same goes for America’s imperialism abroad and its defense of the Plantation System in many parts of the world.

    There almost are no liberals in America or Israel.

    You do not even have a country in fact when you have an empire. Empire and military and security concerns dominate and provide most of the attractive career paths for talented people, crowding out everything else.

    And what is Israel but a privileged strategic colony of the American empire? One pretending to represent high principles when the truth is literally the opposite. Israel’s best friends in the region are tyrants – Saudi’s Crown Prince or Egypt’s Generalissimo – who keep their people suppressed. And it calls democratic organizations like Hamas “terrorists” for the same reason people like Corbyn are attacked.

    Some democratic values. But we do live in a world where painting the roses red is an accepted principle. We see that in every word and activity of a Donald Trump or a Boris Johnson.

  5. @Just passing through

    “Flabby equality types”?

    Simply a remarkable turn of phrase.

    What we might expect from a Netanyahu or a Trump.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  6. Gilad,

    If the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Look no further then yourself.

    Someone should remind the ‘kneeling enthusiast’ that in his entire career, Corbyn never criticised Jews, Judaism or Jewishness. He did criticise Israel and Zionism, while making a clear distinction between Jews and Zionism. It is this critique of Israel and its politics that made Corbyn and the party ‘antisemitic’ in the eyes of the Zionist pressure groups. If Thornberry insists on getting on her hands and knees to ask for pardon, she ought to understand the ‘fault’ that has been attached to her party, otherwise, her conduct fits too well with the definition of insanity.

    It is dishonest of you to suggest that you are only critiquing Zionism and Israel. Your mantra is enlightening the world to the dangers of Judaism and their diabolical control of the levers of world power, thru their racists choseness and thru Holocaust worship and victimization. (Do I have that correct I have been studying your ideas for a while) You inform how Jewish power works thru the Jewish lobby, and their Shabbos goys. Not only do you inform (thru your books) but you insist that Jew power be stopped, like you are clearly warning people about Judaism and Jews. So am I correct you do not subscribe to the IHRA which most of the world ascribes to? Do you not understand that you are what the current Labour leaders are “down on their knees about” No?

    What Labour is trying to do now is separate the legitimate critique of Zionism and Israel from the Jew haters. It is a delicate line and the lines got blurred last time around. Aren’t you and your fellow travelers the ones that blurred them? The line in the sand is: delegitimizing Israel as the right of Jews to self determination as a Jewish state. You disagree with that correct? To cross that line is considered anti-semitic, and no political party in the Western World is going to delegitimize Israel’s right to exist.

    So why are you doubling down on your ideas? Trust me if it has not dawned on you that you are the one that emphasizes the .5% (the Jews ) that runs the world, not the rest of the 95%. The 95% do no really care about Zionism, Israel or the Palestinians. They care about their lives in the UK.
    You just lost that argument during the election or did you not notice?

    • Disagree: John Chuckman
    • LOL: Wally
    • Troll: Kali
  7. Sean says:
    @Fran Taubman

    It was not just Israel, Corbyn was reflexively ‘progressive’ on every issue; he was friendly with the leaders of the IRA before the cease fire, not so long ago said there was no upper limit of immigration, and wanted to give the EU immigrants a vote in another Brexit referendum which would certainly mean reversing the decision of the real British. He quite obviously objects to strong ethnic majorities with any special rights in their own country. Yet Corbyn did think Palestinians have special rights. Even those born and who have lived their entire lives outside Palestine were Palestinians with a right of ‘return’ in his book. He also said an ‘man who self IDs as woman’ was eligible to stand on Labour’s all women shortlists to become an MP. You got suspended for disagreeing with the idea that woman could have a penis. He was more or less openly unpatriotic

    Far from seeing Israel as particularly malevolent, Corbyn thought it was no worse than his own county, he was pro–underdog. He would doubtless conceptualise it as a veil of ignorance thinking, but in practice the West and all its works were bad. His support came from massively expanded universities, mainly among students in the humanities, where it is all about pronoun engendering rather than biological organs, and hyper-internationalism. The traditional Labour support are just that: traditional. Many of them in the former Labour industrial heartlands north of Watford had voted Brexit so how could he possibly have carried them with him? Him agreeing to let Boris have an election was either just a bad political mistake, or a sign that he wanted to get losing and resigning over with in a world gone populist and nationalist. Time has passed Corbyn and his treacherous fellow travelers by.

    • Replies: @Tlotsi
  8. @Colin Wright

    It is comical… I guess that he next party to go through the same devastating transformation is your Democratic Party..

  9. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…What Labour is trying to do now is separate the legitimate critique of Zionism and Israel from the Jew haters. It is a delicate line and the lines got blurred last time around. Aren’t you and your fellow travelers the ones that blurred them?’

    No. Of course it is you Zionists who blurred those lines, by persistently equating condemnation of Israel with anti-semitism.

    Moreover, you did it quite intentionally. I could have condemned the USSR; no one would have claimed that this demonstrated I was bigoted against Russians. I could have called for the unconditional defeat of Nazi Germany; that would not have proven that I hated Germans.

    But if I call for the abolition of Israel? I am an ‘anti-semite.’

    This is the equation you Zionists yourselves insisted on. What do you want?

    • Agree: Kali
  10. @Just passing through

    ” left-wing parties are filled with socialist Jews,…”

    Correct and for a reason….

    Left and Progressive ideologies are (unfortunately) Jerusalemite to the core.

    They teach ppl ‘what to say’ (Chomsky, Democracy Later, JVP, Mondweiss) as opposed to ‘how to think for themselves’ (Heidegger)..

    Left is defined by boundaries of correctness as opposed to correspondence rules with reality…

    As if this is not enough, both Left and Progressivism are forms of self-elected righteousness.. We are here for the ‘progress’ as opposed to the rest who are ‘reactionaries’.

    It doesn’t take too much study to grasp that the strict binary distinction between ‘the revolutionary’ and the ‘reactionary’ is identical with the strict Jew/Goy binarism.

    Consequently, the Left and the Progressivism offer the Jews an alternative discourse of choseness…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Curmudgeon
    , @MLK
  11. @John Chuckman

    Corbyn may be a decent human being but 1. this is not enough to run a country 2. It is impossible to deny that it was Corbyn’s Labour that deteriorated into its current Orwellian apparatus. 3, If Corbyn didn’t manage to grasp what he was up against after being the patron of the PSC (Palestinian Solidarity Campaign) for 3 decades, he belongs in the learning difficulties class,,, he can’t run a state or party or a corner shop.

    But there is something good to say about Corbyn. It is his extreme lack of cognitive ability that brought to light the extreme infiltration of the Lobby (both Zionist and so called ‘anti) into our public life (politics, media, finance, culture) …

  12. “Your mantra is enlightening the world to the dangers of Judaism and their diabolical control of the levers of world power, thru their racists choseness and thru Holocaust worship and victimization.”

    Try to concentrate Frau Taubman,,, please point out where do I criticise ‘JUDAISM’ in this piece or anywhere else.

    Not that I believe that Judaism should be free of criticism but Judaism isn’t my topic, I am actually way more concerned with Jewish secularism.

    I do indeed write about Jewish Identity politics. Jewish culture, Jewishness (יהודיות), Judeo-centrism, J-biologism … I dig into the metaphysics of these and suggest that some aspects of those ideology are problematic, racist, supremacist. They endanger the world and Jews alike.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  13. @Fran Taubman

    “The 95% do no really care about Zionism, Israel or the Palestinians. They care about their lives in the UK.”

    To start with we are talking about 99.5% (in Britain) or 98% in the USA ,,, again you don’t concentrate enough to engage,,, but out of interest, would you also hold the same position in Germany in 1937, would you say that 98% of the Germans didn’t really care about the Jews?

    I actually think that 10 years ago, no one cared about the Jews, or Zionism or Palestine except just a few humanists in the marginal Left.. but the orchestrated campaign against Labour that was led by the BOD, CAA in collaboration with the chief Rabbi, the Israeli embassy , the media and beyond revealed to the Brits that they have a problem….

    In fact, you are doing your relentless Hasbara job on each of my papers because the problem has unveiled itself and it is more severe than ever…

    As I mentioned to you many times before, my criticism of Jewishness is not different from early Zionists such as Gordon, Herzl, Nordaw, Kazanelson, Borochov, …our diagnosis of the problem is pretty much identical. We, however, differ on the remedy. They (the early Zionists) believed that a solution was possible (civilizing by means of ‘homecoming’). I am myself a very successful product of their philosophy (so are Israel Shamir, Uri Avneri, Israel Shahak, Gideon Levi and just a few others) ! However, Israel has amplified all the symptoms it was designed to suppress. Hence, I can’t think of an appropriate remedy, I may even argue that a remedy that sustains the J ID is conditionally impossible…

  14. @OilcanFloyd

    Labour was let down by its pandering to minorities, from Muslims to sexual perverts. They were also in favour of increasing immigration.

    If a Labour party were to oppose immigration on purely economic grounds (more people = more supply = lower wages) then they would win big. Unfortunately they are either controlled, incompetent or more likely a mix of both.

  15. @John Chuckman

    Corbyn is allowed idpol fanatics to dominate the party. The pandering to minoriteks was unreal. The only reason they were actually opposed to Israel was to pay lip service to their sizeable Muslim voter base. The fact that Israel and their agents have been responsible for pushing Britain into Middle East wars was not even hinted at.

    I personally believe in equality of opportunity. The Labour party believes in equality of outcome and their anti-White race-baiting is unbearable (people like David Lammy or Diane Abott)

    The Tories are pretty bad, they virtue signal their right-wing credentials but don’t actually do anything. If Labour were competent and realised that they must win over the low to middle-low income native British people, they could have won. Labour as they currently stand are Islamophillic.

  16. @John Chuckman

    Great article & great comment, John Chuckman.
    “But I regard their words and behavior more a matter of sheer political incompetence than anything else. ”
    There”s a lot of truth here. It is political death to appear & to be weak. Constantly apologising is a strobe light shrieking weakness (how often do politicians apologise for anything ? Infrequently, I’d say).
    So, yes, Labour’s leadership is incompetent, stupid & insane.
    Frankly & assertively state the truth: the State of Israel is open to question & where justified, criticism. Such criticism has NOTHING to do with Jew’s, especially UK Jews. We will criticise any state that engages in immoral or criminal activity. For us doing anything less would be immoral.
    Wear the flack, dig in, repeat, do not resile a millimetre.

  17. @Gilad Atzmon

    This is the problem with Zionists displaying high levels of ethnocentrism, it stops them from seeing objective reality and they start becoming neurotic and drawing more attention to themselves.

    Or do you think they want more anti-Semitism in society to remind Jews of their DNA? Didn’t some prominent Israeli politician say that integration and assimilation is akin to a second Holocaust?

    We all know that if peace were to come to the Middle East, Israelis would start degenerating into nothingness much like Westerners. No more national service and no more danger. Just drugs and pride parades.

    I personally never even understood what anti-Semitism was about until I started hearing about it in the media in relation to Jeremy Corbyn, on further investigation I found many interesting sources of information regarding Jews (Unz Review included) which could be regarded as anti-Semitic. My believe after research that a group of Jews were responsible for the was in the Middle East is denounced as anti-Semitic but I would likely never have found this out of it were not for the Zionists crying out in pain.

    The perfect amount of anti-semitism must be maintained in society. Not too much so that there is a mass uprising, but also not so little that normal Jews lose their sense of identity and the chances of finding Jews to participate in conspiracies is lowered considerably.

    If I were a British Jew who has not experienced anti-Semitism in real life, and one day a news story tells me about the rise in anti-Semitism in British society and directed me to these instances, I would become quite aware of my Jewishness and likely become more loyal to Israel…to be on the safe side.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  18. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:

    “The Brits realised that if Corbyn couldn’t handle a tiny foreign lobby, he would struggle to deal with Putin.”

    Deal with Putin? Over what? His disrespect for Uncle Sam?

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    , @anonymous
  19. @Gilad Atzmon

    The Democratic Party went through their devastating transformation in the early 1990s, and chose to abandon its traditional base of American workers and concentrated on winning through increased immigration and appealing to the fringes. Had the population not increased from 230 million to around 300 mollion since, mostly through immigration, the Democratic party would be out of business. Instead, they look to be the future, and much of America is without a nation.

  20. MarkU says:

    Corbyn was one of those flabby equality types, it seems impossible to me that he hates or even disliked Jews. His real crime was opposing the Israel Lobby. This episode should have alerted a significant number of Britons as to the power-wielders in this Nation.

    It has done.

    As I said earlier the Zionists greatly overplayed their hand in the last UK election and normally oblivious people have begun to notice.

    • Agree: Kali
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  21. Sean says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    However, Israel has amplified all the symptoms it was designed to suppress.

    Early Zionists were articulating a view of the time that once they created Israel there would be an alteration in Jewishness. There are emergent qualities of a nation state and once you create one it will start acting in accordance with the dictates of realism like all the others. How could Israel have been different? If the world is getting more like Israel then it is because the common people have increasingly come to reject the idea their country is a charitable institution. John Gray has an interesting article about this in which he says the days when being a ‘progressive’ was a step on a political career are coming to an end because to ordinary people have lost faith in hyperliberal sexual mores, internationalism of behalf of minorities and even whole countries that are actually comparable to Britain, which is now a medium sized economy highly dependant on the financial services virtual city state south of Watford. Four days ago:-

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trump-tariffs-uk-iran-nuclear-deal-france-germany-eu-a9286496.html

    Donald Trump threatened the UK with a 25 per cent tariff on its cars unless the British government officially accused Iran of breaking the 2015 nuclear deal, it has been reported. The secret threat last week, first reported by The Washington Post, which cited unnamed European officials, would have seen the tariff imposed on all European automobile imports to the US unless Britain, France and Germany agreed to the ultimatum.

    Assuming Corbyn had been elected what could he have done about that, or this:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/27/asia/china-russia-iran-military-drills-intl-hnk/index.html

    The joint drills also serve as a signal to the world that relations between Tehran, Moscow and Beijing have reached a “meaningful” level, Tahani said. He added that it was the first time Iran has held a joint exercise with two major world naval powers at this scale

    Britain is militarily and diplomatically puny and now only notable for its lack of productive capacity (inexorably eroded by Europe), which made the industrial worker dependant Labour Party’s decline inevitable. Bliar’s decade of immigration rubbed the nose of the people in diversity, and lost much of their remaining advantage in the depressed Midlands and North.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Gilad Atzmon
    , @sarz
  22. @Gilad Atzmon

    I actually think that 10 years ago, no one cared about the Jews, or Zionism or Palestine except just a few humanists in the marginal Left.. but the orchestrated campaign against Labour that was led by the BOD, CAA in collaboration with the chief Rabbi, the Israeli embassy , the media and beyond revealed to the Brits that they have a problem….

    So true. Now, thanks to this pitiful Corbyn interlude, a larger number of British leftists than ever will have begun to fathom why they can’t have nice things. So maybe in the end, it’s all for the best.

    • Agree: Gilad Atzmon, Brewer
  23. Anonymous[238] • Disclaimer says:

    I find it bizarre how Brexit is supposed to be finally happening in less than 10 days, if Boris keeps his word (lol), and yet the media seems to have completely dropped any mention of it.

    This will be arguably the biggest event in British history since WW2 but based on the media’s coverage of it it’s almost as if Brexit no longer exists. The media seem more interested in the Harry and Meghan royal family scandal.

    • Replies: @Kali
  24. Anonymous[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Britain nowadays is an “every man for himself”, zero hours contract “services” economy. As you point out there’s no place for a “Labour Party” in such a political and economic climate, in such a society the centre-right rule because people don’t expect a welfare state or any real workers rights, they just want minimal taxes to maximise their income.

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
  25. jamesc says:

    Gilad is, of course, right to question why anyone of the Labour leadership contenders should submit to the BOD’s demands. The answer, of course, is that their demands come with an unsubtle threat – do as they say, or the BOD and their allies will destroy the Labour party in the same way that they destroyed Corbyn.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  26. @John Chuckman

    It seems to me there’s lots of anti-Semitism around. How could there not be, given how aggressive Jews are in pushing their agenda and punishing their critics? A vague, general hostility between ethnic groups is pretty widespread in history and pretty natural.

  27. @Gilad Atzmon

    ‘… It doesn’t take too much study to grasp that the strict binary distinction between ‘the revolutionary’ and the ‘reactionary’ is identical with the strict Jew/Goy binarism…’

    Yeah — but the whole ‘Neocon’ phenomenon violated the perfection of that division, however superficially.

    ‘Neocon’ ideology is basically progressivism with two adjustments to meet the changing desiderata of Zionist Jews: support for American aggression (there’s no other word for it) in the Middle East, and a reduction in the tax burden for the very wealthy now-that-the-very-wealthy-are-disproportionately-Jewish.

    Immigration, multi-culturalism, multi-sexuality — all mighty fine. Just no taxes and more war for Israel. That’s what their ‘conservatism’ consists of.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  28. @Just passing through

    It is very possible that self destruction is embedded in Jewishness,,, This would explain why Jewish past is a chain of disasters… but it also entails that Goyim should be finally vindicated…They just happen to be in the wrong place at the worng time…

    Golda Meir said once “We (Jews) can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children.” Now try to imagine that Golda was projecting her own guilt. Check what happens when we replace the word Jews with Goyim and Arabs with Jews…

  29. @Gilad Atzmon

    To start with we are talking about 99.5% (in Britain) or 98% in the USA ,,, again you don’t concentrate enough to engage,,, but out of interest, would you also hold the same position in Germany in 1937, would you say that 98% of the Germans didn’t really care about the Jews?

    Not a chance of comparison. So so many forces at play as the world moved forward from 1937.
    The anti-semitism in Europe from Medieval times to before the war was the result of the Christian Church and the European aristocracy as the head of the church. This lead to secular Zionism where Jews could be normal people.

    The second Vatican council and the rise of Christian Zionism remedied the riff between Christianity and Judaism who have joined forces in fighting Islamic fundamentalism. This battle is viewed as a Judo-Christian battle to save western civilization.

    The rejection of global secularism has created many Jewish and Zionist supporters amongst Eastern European Catholic countries who are fighting Islamic integration in their countries.
    There are many many forces at play in the world today that did not exist in 1937. No comparison.

  30. @jamesc

    Of course,,, and our role as writers and commentators is to expose these politicians and the corrosive impact of the Lobby..

    • Agree: renfro
  31. @Sean

    I agree with a lot of the ideas you explore here. My last book’s title is Being in Time – a Post Political Manifesto. The reality you describe above is that post political realm….a collective mass fatigue ,,,

  32. @MarkU

    ‘… As I said earlier the Zionists greatly overplayed their hand in the last UK election and normally oblivious people have begun to notice.’

    So one hopes. One of the more exasperating tendencies of the English is their willingness to overlook almost anything if noticing it would prove awkward.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @Wielgus
  33. sarz says:
    @Sean

    Assuming Corbyn had been elected what could he have done about that [Trump’s threat of 25% auto tariffs]…

    How about counter-tariffs on American chips and software, in conjunction with Germany and France, if possible.

  34. @Gilad Atzmon

    As I mentioned to you many times before, my criticism of Jewishness is not different from early Zionists such as Gordon, Herzl, Nordaw, Kazanelson, Borochov, …our diagnosis of the problem is pretty much identical. We, however, differ on the remedy. They (the early Zionists) believed that a solution was possible (civilizing by means of ‘homecoming’). I am myself a very successful product of their philosophy (so are Israel Shamir, Uri Avneri, Israel Shahak, Gideon Levi and just a few others) ! However, Israel has amplified all the symptoms it was designed to suppress. Hence, I can’t think of an appropriate remedy, I may even argue that a remedy that sustains the J ID is conditionally impossible…

    Many forces are at play, to blame it all on the Jews is to not understand the way the world has evolved especially in the middle east. The secular Zionist that founded Israel ran into a buzz saw of fanatical religious irrational Islamism. Jihad against the Jews. Most of the fight over there has nothing to do with the Palestinians or land. It is a religious war, and an irrational one. Islam is at a similar place to Medieval Europe Christianity. Verbatim. We poison Muslim’s wells. You never understand the evolution of the natural forces in nature that the Jews have had to respond to. Islamic fundamentalism has nothing to do with Judaism and everything to do with Islam’s failure in the modern world. We just happed to be there.

    I actually think that 10 years ago, no one cared about the Jews, or Zionism or Palestine except just a few humanists in the marginal Left.. but the orchestrated campaign against Labour that was led by the BOD, CAA in collaboration with the chief Rabbi, the Israeli embassy , the media and beyond revealed to the Brits that they have a problem….

    I and many have a flipped view of this. We view the recent display of Jewish force as saving the UK from Globalism, conspirators, Islamic immigration and irrational progressives who want to make Zionism, Jewish power, Palestinians and Islam the center of the universe. The Jews saved the UK from Corbyn and his cronies. As I keep repeating: you and your travelers are the problem. Keep pounding your Zionist are running the show drum as it fits your paradigm and see where it leads.

    In fact, you are doing your relentless Hasbara job on each of my papers because the problem has unveiled itself and it is more severe than ever…

    If Hasbara is fighting the incessant lies and propaganda about Israel and Jews then yes I am a Hasbarist. I take your positions personally as an artist that grew up in a religious home of survivors (half). I am here to speak about my personal information and experiences that is all I need to engage in this thread. I can tell you as a fact no one spoke about the Holocaust when I was growing up. No one. It was humiliating, the survivors never claimed victimization They wanted to pretend it never happened.

    Since the onslaught of the digital age there has been relentless attacks on Jews and Israel with vicious propaganda. I am here to fight that., and make corrections against outrageous claims. Not only are we fighting the hard left and Muslims, but as you can see on your threads Jews are now fighting against the WN and Neo Nazis. It is important to speak out. The internet did not turn out like we hoped. That is why I engage.

    • Troll: renfro
    • Replies: @Kali
    , @Kali
  35. @Gilad Atzmon

    ” left-wing parties are filled with socialist Jews,…”

    Correct and for a reason….

    I suppose it depends on what you mean by “socialist Jews”. If “socialist Jews” equates to Marxism/communism, then that may, or may not be true. Marxism is the Jewish version of socialism, which has been pushed as being all socialism, when, in fact, many of Marx’s non-Jewish contemporaries were not only hostile to his concepts of socialism, but openly “anti-Semitic”.
    If “socialist Jews” means Jews see themselves as a commune, I believe that is more accurate, because with the exception of a few faith based ones, all political parties are “filled with socialist Jews”. In Canada, one critic used to refer to the “Little Knesset” within Parliament. The Jews from all of the political parties were as one, when it came to Jews and Israel.
    The reality is, that the Jews have just been more successful than other “minority groups”. They infiltrate all parties and lobby for the ethnic self interest. That the Jews became so prominent in Labour, or actually “New Labour” was by design. Like Emily Thornberry, and her ilk, Tony Blair was also on his hands and knees, not asking forgiveness, rather offering himself up to be used and pimped out. Labour will become government when the Jews have decided that the Conservatives aren’t as compliant as Labour.

    As for Corbyn’s interview with Andrew Neil, I wouldn’t have expected less. Neil, from all I’ve seen, is the BBoD’s bitch. He continually asks targets like Corbyn or Nick Griffin “when did you stop beating your wife” type questions then interrupts the answers. When challenged, he resorts to “I am the one asking questions.” The best thing any politician could do would be to tell him to F-off, this interview is over. I saw this with an AfD member involved in a “debate”, when interrupted the 3rd time, she said obviously you aren’t interested in my reply, as you won’t let me answer. Then took off her microphone and walked off to considerable audience applause.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
  36. @Gilad Atzmon

    Try to concentrate Frau Taubman,,, please point out where do I criticise ‘JUDAISM’ in this piece or anywhere else.

    Your lectures (on video) with the circles and arrows, the curves of mountain peaks and valleys where you explain how the Jews make hay in between Holocausts.

    Why do you post articles about Criminal Jews and claim there criminal behavior is Jewish behavior? I have heard you explain sexual deviation and blame it onJewish males and their Jewish parents, as in Epstein. He is not a criminal to you he is a Jewish criminal.

    Your recent claim that the “ethnic cleansing” of black neighborhoods in Monsey and Jersey City caused the recent violent attacks on Jews when in fact the crimes were committed by schizophrenic lunatics. One living in a solid middle class neighborhood of Harlem, who’s sister was trying to have him committed.

    It sounds to me and others like a concerted effort to dehumanize Jews and separate them and their behavior from the rest of society, why else spread vicious slander to a sycophantic rabid Jew hating audience? A lot of what you post is one sided like the rape accusations of the Israelis. You don’t know the truth and the truth is not on a tabloid page. You sensationalize this stuff. You could claim that Jews fly at night to secret location and the rabid Jew hater would believe you.

    Dehumanizing Jews is not cool.

  37. @Fran Taubman

    The second Vatican council and the rise of Christian Zionism remedied the riff between Christianity and Judaism who have joined forces in fighting Islamic fundamentalism. This battle is viewed as a Judo-Christian battle to save western civilization.

    So-called Islamic fundamentalism is to some extent a function of U.S. foreign policy.

    The CIA removed a legitimate government in Iran leading to ‘blowback’.

    Jihadis sent to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets by the CIA and Saudis destabilized already chaotic Pakistan. When these people returned they became a menace in countries like Algeria (civil war) and France (bombings) plus even fought in Bosnia.

    El Trumpo’s Saudi buddies are funding mosques and extremism in the West including Britain.

    Foreign Funded Islamist Extremism in the UK – Henry Jackson Society
    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Foreign-Funded-Islamist-Extremism-final.pdf

  38. @Colin Wright

    Neoconservatism should be regarded as a natural development from a promised land to a promised planet…It is an attempt to integrate the English Speaking empire into the Tikun Olam philosophy…The disastrous outcome is known to everyone here,,,

    • Replies: @Jake
  39. @Curmudgeon

    It is pretty simple, there is a categorical difference between Jewish socialists (which is really an oxymoron as socialism is universal and Jewishness is tribal) and Socialists who happen to be Jewish (by origin) which is a totally valid concept… The all idea of socialism is that it doesn’t matter whether you are Black or Jewish or woman or Muslim. We are all sharing the same class struggle as working people. The people who identify politically as Jewish can’t really be socialists as their primary identification defies the socialist universal concept.

  40. @Fran Taubman

    /in fact the crimes were committed by schizophrenic lunatics/

    Oh, okay.

    So now that we’ve cleared that up, we shouldn’t expect to see those offenses added to the list of “anti-Semitic hate crimes.” After all, their perpetrators were acting irrationally, as mentally ill people, rather than as individuals with a rational animus toward Jews.

    Good to know that zionists aren’t interested in exploiting such occasions to further advance “hate crime” legislation, isn’t it?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  41. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… Your recent claim that the “ethnic cleansing” of black neighborhoods in Monsey and Jersey City caused the recent violent attacks on Jews when in fact the crimes were committed by schizophrenic lunatics. One living in a solid middle class neighborhood of Harlem, who’s sister was trying to have him committed…’

    ‘Schizophrenic lunatics’ are often canaries in the coal mine. When they act out, the direction they choose is often suggested by the attitude of some segment of the wider society.

    See John Brown, the Zebra killers, John Hinckley, the Unibomber, the guy who shot up that synagogue in Pittsburgh. They were all pretty obviously disturbed and headed for a violent outburst of some kind. However, it was trends in the wider culture that suggested to them what targets could be rationalized as legitimate. Who they whack — or try to whack — is not random.

    I could, say, inveigh against abortion. I personally could be perfectly sane, my rhetoric lucid and rational, and violence genuinely the last thing on my mind. Nevertheless, when some loon bombs an abortion clinic, it’s perfectly possible he drew inspiration from my website.

    You can’t simply segregate the behavior of the mentally ill from trends in the wider society. The loons watch TV too, hear the gossip in the barber shop, etc.

    They respond.

  42. @Gilad Atzmon

    ‘… The all idea of socialism is that it doesn’t matter whether you are Black or Jewish or woman or Muslim…’

    Well, not really. You may well agree with socialism, and so naturally you prefer to find it on the side of the angels in all things — but it ain’t necessarily so.

    Jack London was indubitably socialist — and very racist, sometimes genocidally so. In at least one story, the happy ending comes when the white race works out a way to exterminate all Chinese.

    Then there are the National Socialists. Say what you will; their policies were at least as ‘socialist’ as those of the post-war Social Democratic regimes across Western Europe. Yet if the Soviets had decided to pursue ‘socialism in one country,’ the Nazis had plumped for ‘socialism for one nationality’ — or as they thought of it, one race.

    • Agree: Curmudgeon
    • Replies: @Karel
    , @Gilad Atzmon
  43. Karel says:
    @Colin Wright

    your claim that “Jack London was indubitably socialist — and very racist, sometimes genocidally so. In at least one story, the happy ending comes when the white race works out a way to exterminate all Chinese”. is somewhat anecdotal. You confuse fiction with reality. It is as if someone claimed that Conan Doyle identified with the murderers decribed in his writings.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Hibernian
  44. @Karel

    That’s pathetic.

    • Replies: @Karel
  45. @AnonStarter

    Totally it happened to a church in Texas. It is violence against Christians and Jews and Whites and Blacks. But does not make you feel more safe if you are Jewish. We are currently spending money for 2 armed security guards at our Synagogue, one inside and one outside.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @AnonStarter
  46. @Gilad Atzmon

    Socialism today is completely different then Socialism in the 1950’s which was totally different then 1917.
    Originally Socialism was about the peasants who were uneducated and some were slaves. There was also an aristocracy and class system. So Socialism was at first meant to brake down the classes.
    We now have a middle class and upward mobility.

  47. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… We are currently spending money for 2 armed security guards at our Synagogue, one inside and one outside.’

    You are or we are?

  48. Druid says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The taubman troll. Wrong. The 95% do care. What he has is the courage to say it and fight the demons(like you)

    • Agree: Gilad Atzmon
  49. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Socialism today is completely different then Socialism in the 1950’s which was totally different then 1917.
    Originally Socialism was about the peasants who were uneducated and some were slaves. There was also an aristocracy and class system. So Socialism was at first meant to brake down the classes.
    We now have a middle class and upward mobility.’

    History lectures from Fran.

    God help us.

  50. @Fran Taubman

    Unfortunately, Fran, zionists are exploiting the occasion to advance such legislation and bilk the government of more money in the process. You either aren’t paying attention or you’re playing dumb.

    Were I betting man, my money would be on the latter.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  51. Anon[279] • Disclaimer says:

    British men are the most cucked of all Europeans, except for maybe the Swedes. They’ve had Jews living among them and marrying into their aristocracy for 4 centuries. It’s hopeless. As Henry Ford said in The International Jew in 1920:

    Jewry will retain such kings as it desires as long as it desires them. Probably the last throne to be vacated will be the British throne because what to the British mind is the honor of being Jewry’s protector and therefore the inheritor of the blessing which that attitude brings, is to the Jewish mind the good fortune of being able to use a world-wide empire for the furtherance of Jewry’s purpose. Each has served the other and the partnership will probably last until Jewry gets ready to throw Britain over, which Jewry can do at almost any time. There are indications that it has already started in this last task.

    Henry Ford foresaw what was to come. Even if he didn’t predict WWII, he correctly predicted then that the English would persuade the US to take the Jews’ side of the war.

    Wouldn’t surprise me if Meghan Markle has a Jewish advisor coaching and egging her on about how to tear apart the royal family.

  52. @Fran Taubman

    You can always use you advantageous position as a Jew to campaign against the malicious behaviours of your group. For example campaigning against the push for war with Iran which has a distinctly Jewish flavour, much like those who caused the war in Iraq were mostly Jewish Neoconservatives.

    Your status as a Jew would be more conducive in persuading other Jews about these sorts of harms caused by certain Jews, you could also campaign against the neurotic Jews who are launching a lynch Mon against Labour for not licking their boots hard enough.

    But instead of being reasonable, you defend every single bad behaviour by a small clique of Jews judging by your comments on this website.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  53. JUSA says:

    As it says in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, throw as many theories and ideas how there as possible to confuse the gentiles, make them fight among themselves. Practically every “ism” out there is invented by a Jew. Jews gave us capitalism, communism, socialism, liberalism, leftism, neoconism, classism, racism, sexism, Zionism…the only “ism” they didn’t invent was pragmatism. The end result is Jews always end up leading every ideological fight, with gentiles blindly following and quarreling among themselves over these stupid ideologies invented by the Jews.

    Jews also lead all the labor unions, to drive a wedge between labor and management, so they can use it as an excuse to move manufacturing out of the US since they control capital. And they invented all the economic theories like “the purpose of a business is to maximize profit, profit is king” (Milton Friedman) to help pave the way for de-industrialization of US and simultaneous maximum immigration, ostensibly to lower labor cost and maximize profit, but really to destroy the country and weaken white society through multiculturalism.

    Divide and conquer. Works every single time.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  54. nsa says:

    Unbelievably, to this day, gullible subservient Yanks and Brits mutilate the genitals of their male offspring to demonstrate fealty to a vile Kock Kutter Kult. Is this rational…..asking some quack to cut the end off your kid’s dick to please some creepy fictional talmudic sky god? Maybe give your kid a break and find some other way to kiss the precious yid’s ass.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  55. @Colin Wright

    I agree that socialism means many things to different people …my reference to socialism which you quoted above was Marxist oriented, however I do agree that not all socialists are Marxists…

  56. ~ AfPak•Hezbollah Amity Pact {of (arya)Scythian IndIran}~

    Need of the hour kalki..

  57. Luongo says the economy will blow up.

  58. @Gilad Atzmon

    Homecoming would have been possible if Israel weren’t a colonial project, but if the Jews actually bought the sovereignty from the Palestinians themselves, for a fair price.

  59. Ghali says:

    With their money (earned by exploitation and corruption), Jews rule the Western states. A large majority of the people in these states know that, but they are keeping quiet. One might ask. For how long? The answer is not very long. It is a repeat of the 1930s in Europe, Germany in particular. Europeans rebelled against Jews. Hitler was one of those who rebelled. History is repeating itself.

  60. Miro23 says:
    @Colin Wright

    @MarkU
    ‘… As I said earlier the Zionists greatly overplayed their hand in the last UK election and normally oblivious people have begun to notice.’

    So one hopes. One of the more exasperating tendencies of the English is their willingness to overlook almost anything if noticing it would prove awkward.

    IMO they did overplay their hand with the Labour Anti-Semitism blitz. It was obviously fake, and aimed at Corbyn because of his (previous) Palestinian sympathies.

    The British don’t like to “make a fuss”, but they can be bloody minded in some situations, and appreciate fair play. The missing factor here is a politician who can crystallize their views. At one point it looked like it would be Corbyn, but he washed out in the pre-election Johnson-Corbyn live TV debate – accepting all the Anti-Semitism smears and promising more Labour self-flagellation.

    He would have greatly improved Labour’s election chances if he had stood up to the Zionists.

    The assumption would then be, that if he was capable of standing up against the Zionists, he would also be capable of standing up against the U.K.’s many other special interest lobbies.

  61. @OilcanFloyd

    ” It would make sense for a Labor party in Britain to concentrate on the best interests of the majority, native British population, but that never happens! It seems like that is the situation in every western nation, and that IS insane.”

    And sane observers notice that the prime movers of the insanity are Jews.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  62. @anonymous

    “Deal with Putin? Over what? His disrespect for Uncle Sam?”

    Putin’s major sin is his failure to insufficiently celebrate sodomites.

  63. Parfois1 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Originally Socialism was about the peasants who were uneducated and some were slaves. There was also an aristocracy and class system. So Socialism was at first meant to brake down the classes. We now have a middle class and upward mobility.

    Strange logic, but not strange considering where it comes from: an addled head.

    If there is a middle, there must be something lower, and something upper. Therefore lower, middle and upper classes, and other layers in between.

    The same goes for “upward mobility” implying there is movement up the social scale from an original point down the scale.

    As to the other inanities about Socialism, thank you very much. It only shows the dismal ignorance of a defective intellect.

    Stick to the Talmudic doctrine, the right subject for an oozy mind.

  64. @AnonStarter

    A very disrespectful comment. Our synagogue congregants are paying for the security.
    As far as I know there are no government funds available for security. If legislation does pass I assume it will cover all religious and educational-institutions to protect from the recent shootings.

    You either hate Zionist or you are spuriously trying to defame Jews by accusing them of thievery.

    If I were a betting woman I would say both. Oh and clever replacing Jews with Zionist. I live in NY. I doubt legislation would pass to protect Zionist. LOL

    I would also bet that your comment is pretty insincere.
    Jews do not bilk the government

    Most Jew haters on this site dare pretty direct. You are full of hide and seek.

  65. @Anon

    Wouldn’t surprise me if Meghan Markle has a Jewish advisor coaching and egging her on about how to tear apart the royal family

    .

    That family of inbreds was going out anyway, most people only admire the Queen and then the line gets quote mediocre with Charles.

    I find it astounding how much the media are paying attention to this Markle drama, they should focus more on Andrew and Epstein.

    • Replies: @Sean
  66. @JUSA

    So in summary, the Jews are doing to Anglo society what the Jews and Anglos did to various parts of the world?

    Shame on the Anglos for trusting Jews in their criminal enterprise, history should have told them that one day the Jews’ hungry gaze would turn onto them.

    America is currently doing Judea’s bidding in the Middle East, all I can say is, today the Anglo works hand in hand to hang the others, very soon in the future, the Anglo will find himself standing at the gallows with Schlomo ready to hang him.

    Colonialism was entirely prodded on by Jews in my opinion, they used the Anglo might to conquer the world and divert the profits to themselves. I personally would be supportive of Rothschild and Warburg banks paying reparations to both Whites and Browns/Yellows/Blacks for all the harm they have caused.

    • Replies: @Jake
  67. @nsa

    Babies are not circumcised here in the UK, that seems to be an American feature.

    • Replies: @Kapyong
  68. @Ilya G Poimandres

    If only. Palestinian leaders are not interested in a fair price or any workable solution that includes Jews. Islam as currently practiced in the ME is an insane and irrational sectarian mess.

    Islamist LEADERS not the regular folks want Jihad against the Jews for whatever Jihadist reasons they can think of. Jordan is a colonial creation. Why not go after Jordan. If I were a Palestinian that is what I would do.

    If rationale was running the show it would have all been settled like 70 years ago when the partition plan was created. The Palestinians would be celebrating 70 years as Palestine.

    It would have been settled many years after that when the Palestinians had the full world court. Yessir Arafat met with Clinton more then any other world leader. True also of his presence in Europe.

    But no one cares anymore because rational solutions do not fit a Jihadist mind. Like when the Muslim Brotherhood assassinated Anwar Sadat for making peace with Israel.

    If Israel were gone tomorrow nothing would change over there. They would start holy wars against each other.

  69. Quinsat says:

    ‘Struggle to deal with Putin…’

    5 short words which say never bother reading this commentator again.

  70. @Fran Taubman

    Yes, because Israeli society is such a tolerant and peace loving place?

    While their agents lobby Western governments to fight their wars, Jews send their kids into the IDF to shoot unarmed Palestinians. And yet Zionists like you have the chutzpah to say Israel is on the brink of destruction to justify your Jewish Lebensraum project.

    Remind me who killed Yitzhak Rabin after he signed the Oslo Peace Accords?

    Would any Israeli politician dare move forward with the peace process knowing there is an abundance of Zionist fanatics in Israeli society who will kill them if they are not Zionist enough?

    You Zionists are just making this worse for normal Jews, whose feelings towards Israel are latent at best. You know that increasing anti-Semitism leads to Jewish racial awareness and makes them more likely to participate in subversive activities, lest the invisible hand of the anti-Semite set in motion another Shoah. This is why Jewish critics like Gilead Atzmon, Israel Shamir and Norman G. Finkelstein cause so much kvetching in Zionist circles.

  71. Parfois1 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You either hate Zionist or you are spuriously trying to defame Jews by accusing them of thievery.

    Quel horreur mon Dieu!!! Accusing Jews of thievery! What’s the world come to?

    Where are you Chuck? I’ll leave that one for you to deal with and exercise your inimitable talent at poking fun at the bleeding obvious.

  72. Kali says:
    @Anonymous

    Media hysterics over Brexit have served their purpose it seems. The country was divided, the opposition party shown to be weak, and now the establishment can get on with tying the British economy to the US and “israeli” economies as, it seems, was the plan all along.

    Brexshit was a disgusting manipulation of the British people by the rich and powerful Jewish lobby. It’s msm did as it was instructed like a good lapdog. Now we all get to suffer what will surely be some rather interesting effects: privatisation of the NHS and a “deffence” policy tied directly to “israel” alongside the criminalisation of opinions which question these moves.

    Le sigh,
    Kali.

  73. @Just passing through

    I am a US citizen. I have no advantaged position. I have the same rights and privileges every other US citizens have.
    Totally ludicrous comment.
    I am not interested in a war with Iran. They Persians are wonderful people. Iran should stop killing Israelis, Jews and Americans. They should stop their behavior of taking over other countries like Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria.

    I am not here to police the behavior of Jews who are like every other peoples in the world. There are malicious Jews, and Jews with exceptionally high morality. Like other people.

    There exists in the British Labour Party both Jews and non Jews with bad neurotic behavior. I am not a British Subject.

    Jeremy Corbyn got what he deserved. He lost the election. And no person in Labour had more bad behavior, low morals and neurotic behavior then Corbyn. He could not defend himself or his party because he stood for nothing that helped the people of the UK.

    • Replies: @Kali
  74. @Fran Taubman

    No, Fran, what really isn’t cool is dehumanizing humanity.

    For reference, see the Jewish Talmud.

  75. Sean says:
    @Just passing through

    To produce healthy children, you should marry a third or fourth cousin. Farther out, the genetic costs of outbreeding begin to outweigh those of inbreeding. That was what a cohort study found in examining Icelanders born between 1800 and 1964. Fertility was lower if the woman’s husband was either closer in or farther out (Helgason et al. 2008).

    Being a family of inbreds has not hurt the Rothschilds.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/a-tale-of-two-rothschilds-7831372.html A tale of two Rothschilds The relationship between Kate Goldsmith and rapper Jay Electronica has uncanny parallels with her great aunt Nica’s passion for Thelonious Monk

    Well, not that much.

    I find it astounding how much the media are paying attention to this Markle drama, they should focus more on Andrew and Epstein.

    I am mildly surprised that more attention has not been given to Epstein throwing vast amounts of money to Catholic professor Martin Nowak at Harvard to help him discredit Inclusive fitness. (Charles Darwin was a product of moderate consanguineous marriage, and so was … er, Hitler. whose parents called each other ‘Uncle’ and ‘Niece’). Tory ideas man David Willetts, in the Financial Times, thought Nowak’s book Supercooperators excellent for understanding the development of cooperation in society. Why is it that so many Jews even renegade ones are so committed to promoting the role of nurture over nature.

    Maybe Jews instinctively understand that people want to disbelieve in genes mattering much. As far back as the play The Tempest, Shakespeare has Prospero identify hereditary qualities as malevolent. when calling Caliban “a born devil, on whose nature/ Nurture can never stick”. In humans Nowak says the key to eliciting cooperation is indirect reciprocity, which is when you help others and get a good reputation that pays off big time because people will help people who are known to help other third persons. The late Professor Henry Harpending on Kin Selection

    Giving Bigotry a Chance This figure shows the data from the Druze, a community in the Middle East that has endured episodes of very small effective size. Here opportunities for discord and clannishness are high as individuals able to discriminate kin would ally against the “others.” In this kind of social/genetic environment one would predict very different patterns of family and clan and group loyalty and cooperation.

  76. geokat62 says:

    This weekend, Labour’s first leadership hustings in Liverpool provided another spectacular display of the candidates’ spineless and unprincipled behaviour.

    They were simply following in the footsteps of the great Traitorous Shabbos Goy, Tony Bliar, who showed his party cohorts how to get ahead in this world… do the bidding of your masters and you will be splendidly rewarded!

  77. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    This battle is viewed as a Judo-Christian battle to save western civilization.

    Yes, yes… of, course, Fran. The Judos are earnestly doing everything in their power to save Western civilization by “encouraging” their Shabbos Goys puppets in key governmental positions to welcome mass immigration into their countries.

    Yes, The Dumb Goyim should be grateful to the efforts of Open Society Foundations, HIAS, etc. for saving our civilization.

    …. and never forget, goy, Diversity Is Our Greatest strength!

  78. Anonymous[317] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    British people almost think of themselves as Jews in a subconcious sort of way. In Britain there is almost no perception of the City of London financial industry as being in any way Jewish, the vast majority of native British people see banking and finance as authentically British, in fact perhaps the most quintessentially British industry there is.

    The British have assimilated Jewish ways so much they have practically made it their own. I get the impression that many non-Anglos use the terms Anglo and Jew almost interchangeably and see them as one and the same.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @Anon
    , @S
  79. Truth3 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Jews, and Judaism, and Zionism, and Talmudism, are the problems Frannie. All of them.

    They are all ugly manifestations of Chosenism, riddled with Hypocrisy (Chutzpah), anti-Humanism, anti-Christianity, anti-Islamism, and oppression of peoples within their grasp (Palestinians, Lebanese, etc.).

    You… Frannie, are a part of the problem. You and your Jewish worldview of lies and myths.

    Grow up. Learn about Christ, the Truth.

    Otherwise… go to Hell, where you and your kind truly belong, worshipping your true master, Satan. Christ Himself described what you all are… and when you die, you cannot escape Truth any longer.

    • Replies: @Jake
  80. Kali says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The Jews saved the UK from Corbyn and his cronies… Keep pounding your Zionist are running the show drum as it fits

    Can you see what you did there Fran? In one breath you state that “the Jews saved the UK from…” (which, incidentally subjects the British people to another 5 years of unrestrained Tory austerity, crippling poverty and ever-rising homelessness, whilst dismantling the National Health Service, and our freedom of self expression, so thanks for that) and in the next breath you castigate Gilad for suggesting that the zionists ( i. e. jews) are running the show.

    Can you see the contradiction in your own writing, in your own views?

    You’re so hell-bent on defending “israel” and its’ international constituency, and on blaming Muslim Arabs for the mess the ME is in thanks to zio-backed/instigated western interference, that you have closed and shuttered your own mind against any and all opposing views, to the point that your “arguments” become utterly incoherent and self contradictory.

    My own grandparents survived the war and very rarely spoke about it. This despite the fact that my great-grandparents lost 3 of their 6 children (or 4 out of 7. Can’t quite remember) in just one night when the air-raid shelter they were sheltering in was blitzed. – All so that your ideological forefathers could push forward on their plan to wipe Palestine out, steal the land and build themselves another golum there.

    Could it be that those who survived the war (first declared by international jewry agaist nationalist Germany) in your family didn’t talk about their experiences because EVERYBODY who survived understood that their suffering was shared by all and that no-one was unique in this regard?

    If you never question your pre-conceptions, how can you know they’re right?

    Kali.

  81. MLK says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    This really isn’t so complicated. Corbyn proved incoherent, if nor worthless and weak, on Brexit, a National Question if there ever was one.

    Did any of you see Labor’s closing pitch in the last election? A parody appeal to what Steve Sailer calls The Coalition of the Fringes. Nothing on the paramount question of national sovereignty, except a veiled promise to give it good and hard to the British majority when Labor took power.

    This was Hillary’s crass appeal.

    I know it’s hard for most here to hear but you characters, including not the least the author, are outliers in where in the scheme of things you rank Israel and the Jews. I never fail to be reminded of that old joke about the little Jewish boy in school — with the punch line “Elephants and the Jewish Question.”

    Is it really so difficult for this audience to understand that since Corbyn got the big, important stuff wrong, his position/messaging on Jews/anti-semitism/Israel/Palestinians . . . , regardless of its specific content, revealed he was the wrong man for the job.

    As if this is not enough, both Left and Progressivism are forms of self-elected righteousness.. We are here for the ‘progress’ as opposed to the rest who are ‘reactionaries’.

    Virginia Democrats are currently engaged in this self-defeating behavior, having nothing to do with Jews etc. Having won control in the last elections, they’ve decided the time is right to re-litigate the Civil War.

  82. Kali says:
    @Fran Taubman

    That is why I engage.

    Constantly, reflexively contradicting is NOT the same thing as “engaging” Fran. Just the opposite, in fact.

    Kali.

  83. Z-man says:

    For the 0.5% Not the 99.5%

    Pretty much how it is here in the good ole’ USA. The 2% own the government – ZOG*. Izrael Uber Alles!
    But it’s beyond ZOG it’s the Globohomo Elite, which is dominated, of course, by Jews.
    The war is coming and that ‘Taubman’ typist (poster) above isn’t going to be happy. (Wry grin)

    *0.5% or 2% it doesn’t matter, the globohomo/Zionist elite, a minority within a minority, run most of the Western governments anyway.
    As always, beware The Power of the CABAL.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  84. Jake says:
    @Truth3

    If your first sentence is true, then it is equally true that Judaizing heresy is the problem. And if that is true, then the logical, inherent, fruits of Judaizing heresy are the problem.

    Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was a Judaizing heresy. Anglo-Saxon Puritanism is responsible for the basic ethos of WASP culture, for its religious and therefore moral proclivities.

    And that means that WASP culture, Modern English culture, is the problem.

    Anglo-Saxon Puritanism that is not forcibly stopped dead in its tracks and rejected culturally leads inextricably to Anglo-Zionist Empire.

    • Replies: @Nonny Mouse
  85. melpol says:

    Jews as a high achieving minority have always been hated. But Corbyn cannot commit political suicide and directly blame Jews for Britain’s problems, so he picks on tiny Israel to get Jew haters to support him.
    Before Israel existed Jew hating politicians were bolder, they directly claimed they hated Jews.

  86. A “democratic socialist ” like Corbyn never stood a chance in the UK which , like the US is a plutocracy, in fact the UK is still a monarchy as to be seated in the House of Commons a member of Parliament MUST first swear allegiance to the Queen . The massmedia in the UK is indirectly owned by billionaires and millionaires who were universally opposed to Corbyn , Corbyn was also opposed by the intelligence services and the military who characterized him as a threat to “National security” ,and for months he was smeared as an anti-semite because he supported Palestinian rights and , for good measure, the BBC in its coverage of the campaign was clearly biased in favor of Boris Johnson . Should Bernie Sanders another “democratic socialist ” become the nominee of the Democratic party he will be subject to the same treatment by the press and the powers that be as meted out to Corbyn , it has already started with the ambush of Sanders by Warren and CNN at the last Democratic debate .

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  87. Jake says:
    @Anonymous

    This sentence should be repeated over and over by everyone trying to figure out what is going on: British people almost think of themselves as Jews in a subconcious sort of way.

    This is the long term end game of Judaizing heresy, which is what Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was, and Anglo-Saxon Puritanism determined Modern English culture.

    If you do not reject WASP culture, Modern English/Anglo-Saxon culture, then you are part of the problem.

  88. Kapyong says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “If the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

    Allow me to pick this nit –
    This stupid saying is NOT the definition of insanity (rather the definition of practicing to get better.)

    The definitions of insanities fill a book an inch thick.

    This is actually a saying from Albert Einstein and is a classic example of the fallacious Argument To Authority – citing an authority but who is outside their area of expertise.

  89. Kali says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Israel should stop killing Arabs… should stop their behavior of taking over other countries like Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria.

    Fixed that for ya Fran

    You’re welcome!

    Kali

  90. @melpol

    I think you know very well Corbyn did not harbour any hatred towards Jews. Once again, Zionists and Talmudists creating anti-Semitism out of thin air to satisfy their demand for persecution

  91. @Z-man

    Ask yourself how they got to this level of power. Why were they allowed to ingrain themselves within the elite of Western societies by the previous elite?

    • Replies: @Z-man
  92. @9/11 Inside job

    For another opinion on the threat posed by Bernie Sanders to the powers that be , see :

    truthdig.com : “Bernie Sanders is much more than a Presidential Candidate ” By Norman Solomon :
    “To corporate media Bernie Sanders is incorrigible …his 2020 campaign – with feet on the ground and eyes on visionary horizons – is a danger to corporate capitalism’s ‘natural order’ that enables wealth to dominate the political process …By remaining part of social movements , Sanders has made himself especially antithetical to the elite sensibilities of corporate media . Elites rarely appreciate any movement that is challenging their unjust power.”

  93. I’m not 100% clear on the relevance of Zionism to the British electoral politics. This is merely a spiritual position with respect to British politicians, correct? In the US of course a politicians stance on Zionism is critical because of the massive foreign aide, diplomatic support and various neocon wars of conquest which are often associated with Israel. Britain, although it can be ensnared in the neocon wars as with Blair and Iraq, doesn’t do all that much for Israel. I think an essay on why Zionism is so front and center in British politics would be enlightening. Do they simply not want any dissenting voice? Why would politicians even broach the issue knowing how irrelevant and inflammatory it is?

    • Agree: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Just passing through
  94. Kapyong says:
    @Just passing through

    “Babies are not circumcised here in the UK, that seems to be an American feature.”

    FYI –
    In Australia, circumcision rates were about 80% in the 1950s, declining to about 70% in 1990 then more rapidly down to about 30% in 2010, and around 20% now.

    • Replies: @nsa
    , @9/11 Inside job
  95. Jake says:
    @Just passing through

    “So in summary, the Jews are doing to Anglo society what the Jews and Anglos did to various parts of the world?”

    That is it.

    What pisses off philoSemitic WASPs like John Derbyshire is instead of Jews being the good bankers for WASPs to play destroyer of non-WASP white cultures, Jews now demand to be recognized as owning the engine of WASP empire and intend to grind non-Elite WASPs into the same dust that WASPs intended to grind, say, Irish Catholics or Scottish Highlanders.

    The Devil always demands full payment eventually.

  96. @Happy Tapir

    When engaging in Neocon wars, I feel that America looks to Britain and France for approval, it gives the while thing an air of legitimacy as other ‘civilised’ countries are backing the so-called wars of liberation so it can’t be that bad right?

    Remember when France refused to join in the Iraq war? The US went crazy. It’s not like France’s pissant armed forces would actually add anything as we all know the massive US defence budget has given the US total supremacy, it was rather that another civilised country had rejected America and made the war look illegal (which is was). Had Britain also opposed this war, it would have been an even bigger blow as Britain’s opinion is more important to the US than France’s.

    The Israel lobby also operated here but it is mostly to keep politicians in line and make them kowtow to the US. In fact, many British people here think America is our Greatest Ally and any opposition to American actions makes you liable to be labelled ‘anti-West’, this is what happened to Jeremy Corbyn. Pompeo even hinted at a sort of coup if Corbyn was elected.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/09/mike-pompeo-leaked-recording-corbyn-labour-jewish-leaders

    UK and France are let to legitimising US military actions, you saw this when the UK made a statement saying it ‘supports the right for the US to defend itself’ after the US assassinated Soleimani.

    It wouldn’t look great for the US if Israel was the lone voice supporting US actions now would it? People might begin to notice things…

    • Replies: @Happy Tapir
  97. Jake says:
    @Anon

    “British men are the most cucked of all Europeans, except for maybe the Swedes. They’ve had Jews living among them and marrying into their aristocracy for 4 centuries.”

    Not quite that long, but they’ve had indispensable Jewish bankers since the rule of archetypal WASP, and uber hero to the VDARE crowd, Oliver Cromwell nearly 400 years ago. And that came to be because Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was a Judaizing heresy.

    Ideas have consequences.

    What ideas possibly could have the consequences of the existence of Anglo-Zionist Empire? Surely a wise and morally sound man would want to reject and battle against those ideas to his dying breath.

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  98. vot tak says:

    A race to the groveling lowest level. Sure sign of quislingship.

    The labor (intentional spelling) party is done. Clark, a mild establishment critic, especially on zionazi issues, is also pointing this out.

    By Supporting More Witch-Hunting, Labour Leadership Candidates All Fall at the Very First Fence

    https://sputniknews.com/columnists/202001171078061979-by-supporting-more-witch-hunting-labour-leadership-candidates-all-fall-at-the-very-first-fence/

  99. Jake says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Brilliant post.

    I would stress that the WASP Empire began adding the Tikkun Olam philosophy inadvertently first through the Judaizing heresy of Anglo-Saxon Puritanism and then when it took Jewish banker money to finance its wars against Christendom and all non-WASP white cultures.

  100. nsa says:
    @Kapyong

    According to the CDC, about 80% of the adult population of the USA have mutilated dicks i.e. near total subservience to and brainwashing by the vile talmudic KKK (Kock Kutter Kult). What kind of halfwitted asshole parents would allow the mutilation of their own kid’s dick? Where are the mothers in allowing goofy quacks to perform this cruel sadistic obscenity on their own babies soon after birth? The only conclusion possible: a sick, sick, sick jew addled male hating society.

  101. @Jake

    Speaking of WASPs here’s what one George Washington had to say about Jews, when he sent a letter to the Jewish community in 1790;

    May the Children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.

    Or what about that other Anglo chap Benjamin Franklin who contributed funds towards the first permanent synagogue in Philadelphia.

    The VDARE gang are not willing to admit that America was Judaized from the beginning.

  102. anarchyst says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The Second Vatican “Ecumenical Council” absolved the jews of responsibility for the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. Big mistake…

    The so-called “Ecumenical Council” did more to destroy traditional Catholicism than just about any other movement. It was carefully planned by jews and protestants and was successful beyond jewish dreams.

    The false doctrine of “judeo-Christianity” needs to be exposed for what it truly is–a false doctrine and takeover.

    A little-known and barely-mentioned aspect of the attempted destruction of the Catholic Church is the infiltration of the Catholic clergy by “crypto-jews–those with the intent and means to destroy the Catholic Church from within. Witness the homosexual pedophilia cabal within the clergy that is being exposed as we speak.

    It is interesting to note that there is much more abuse of children within protestant and jewish communities, but these abuses are never publicized by our jew-controlled “mainstream media”.

    You jews STILL have a visceral hatred of Jesus Christ and Catholicism which exists to this very day. It’s a shame that many Catholics and other Christians do not see through the jewish “smokescreen”.

    In fact, Islam has greater respect for Jesus Christ and his mother Mary than any jewish sect. The jewish talmud says it all…

    The “Christian-jewish” coalitions and the rise of “Christian zionism” poisoned Christianity and led the way for jewish domination of most Christian sects.

    Fortunately, there is a movement within traditional Catholicism to counter the jewish takeover and restore Catholicism to its rightful place, along with reinstating responsibility for Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and death solely on the jews.

    Of course, the jews will blame Pontius Pilate and the Romans, but like today, the jews got others to do their “dirty work for them.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  103. @Just passing through

    Yes, I somewhat surmised this. There was a great little movie about a whistle blower during the Iraq attack who uncovered actions by the British government to blackmail UN members into supporting the Iraq war. It was called Official Secrets. Wasn’t well distributed at all—someone didn’t want this story widely known.

    The US really needs the diplomatic support of Europe to pursue its goals in the Middle East. That explains why we were bugging Angela merkel’s phone calls etc etc. My guess is that she’s a secret lesbian, and they are using this to control her.

    This semitism/anti Semitic nexus in the British electoral politics is another point that tells you it’s all about Zionism and not the “war for oil” meme.

  104. @Kapyong

    There should be an age of consent for male circumcision/genital mutilation , by the age of 18 a male should be able to decide whether or not he wishes to be circumcised . It is my understanding that the UK’s National Health Service used to cover the cost of the procedure , but no longer does so .

  105. @anarchyst

    Good luck with that movement. Practically a terrorist group of pre Vatican 2 traditional radical Catholics.
    You don’t have the pope on your side. Another fringe group right out of the Davinci Code.
    I have heard from a lot of you on this site and frankly the Jihadist make more sense.
    A truly perverse group. Oh yeah Crypto Jewish priest infiltrating and ruining Catholicism. Jews everywhere.

  106. Wazdo says:

    Thanks for that Gilad.

    Just a couple of quetions; why did Liverpool and Greater Manchester vote Labour? As far as I know all their MPs are Labour and the greatest drop in the Labour vote that region, when I loooked, was 1.9%. By the way, in the 2016 referendum these same people voted remain by a large majority; 58-60%.

    Why did the rest of the country vote for a drunkard who laid his reath at the Cenataph upside down in November 2019 and who hid from reporters in a fridge and when confronted with a photograph of a disstressed child, stole the mothers phone?

    Any ideas?

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Gilad Atzmon
    , @Kali
  107. Anon[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    The Brits are probably unsuspecting because Jews make up <2% of the population per the "official" count. As Henry Ford said, the US government relies on Jews to report their own numbers, there is no official record of how many there are in the US, and Jews are always under counting their population on purpose. I suspect the same in the UK. There are probably a lot more Jews among them than 2%, esp. those in the finance industry and the aristocracy. Britainia is rotten from the top down. The British upper class used to be the most morally upright, like Queen Victoria and Prince Albert, so the Jews infiltrated their aristocracy through intermarriage to corrupt them from the inside out.

    Ford also said that in Europe, esp. countries like Romania and Poland, they call the US the "Jews' Country", and this was way back in 1920. FUKUS are completely Jewified, rotten from top down, inside out.

  108. anarchyst says:
    @Fran Taubman

    There you go again–name-calling pre-Vatican II Catholics a “terrorist group”. I am surprised that you did not use the “n” word” (nazi).

    Throughout Catholic history, there have been false popes in the past.

    It is fact that crypto-jews did infiltrate and damage the Catholic Church by posing as “converts” and joining the clergy…the homosexual pedophilia clergy being the latest problem.

    We shall persevere!

    Shalom

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  109. @Fran Taubman

    Jeremy R. Hammond :” Why Israel has no right to exist ” foreignpolicyjournal.com :
    “There is a popular belief that Israel was founded through some kind of legitimate political process . This is false …The UN General Assembly [through Resolution 181] had no authority to partition Palestine against the will of the majority of its inhabitants . Nor did it claim to. …The matter was forwarded to the Security Council where the plan died with the explicit recognition that the UN had no
    authority to enforce any such partiton.”

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  110. @Ilya G Poimandres

    ‘Homecoming would have been possible if Israel weren’t a colonial project, but if the Jews actually bought the sovereignty from the Palestinians themselves, for a fair price.’

    But what people would actually, consciously sell their national sovereignty, their claim to self-respect?

    This is the problem the Zionists have faced from the start — and still face. It infuriates them that no matter how hard they grind their boot into the Palestinian face, the Palestinians persist in wiggling and squeaking.

    Why, oh why, cannot they just docilely line up and shuffle forward into the showers — as we did?

    Seriously. I think groveling submission is the one thing the Jews keep trying to exact from the Palestinians. It would absolve them of responsibility for their own docility.

    But it’s the one thing they can never get. It drives ’em wild.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  111. @Bill Jones

    ‘And sane observers notice that the prime movers of the insanity are Jews.’

    Speaking for myself, I dearly wish it weren’t so, but…

  112. @9/11 Inside job

    Addendum -per Jeremy Hammond ” [Soon after the proposed plan ] On May 14, 1948 , when they declared the existence of Israel , Jews owned less than 7% of the land of Palestine… Arabs also constituted a numerical majority in Palestine . Despite mass immigration , Jews remained a minority comprising about a third of the population .”

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  113. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… As far as I know there are no government funds available for security…’

    You don’t realize it, but that’s a comment on the paucity of your knowledge, not on the absence of such funds.

    ‘… Jews do not bilk the government…’

    Oh, but they do. Admittedly, they’re hardly unique in that, but…

  114. @John Chuckman

    I consider you partly educated Mr John Chuckman. Since the past 2 years I have firmly believed that Jeremy Corbyn has been compromised by some secret he’s hiding. He’s acted like an utterly limp and soggy milquetoast all this while.
    GB like the USA and France are infiltrated and compromised, while Germany is under occupation. It’s the bitter truth that you will have to swallow sooner or later before you can cast away the yoke.

  115. I do not know what the statistics for actual anti-Semitic crimes are in the UK but I would imagine that like in the United States they have been blown way out of proportion to actual crimes committed in totality.

    “Hate Crimes” and their subsequent laws are a complete aberration for general criminal that is applied to keep the public at large relatively safe.

    If we were drop such ridiculous segmentions of law, then we could see such crimes for the realities they are.

    With such laws it easy to fabricate the idea that a specific segment of such crimes could be seeing a dramatic increase based simply on possibly increase in their reporting. So for example, let us say that
    5 assaults on people of the Jewish faith took place in Britain in 2018. In 2019 it is then reported that 10 such people were accosted. The net result would be a 100% increase in such crimes and such increases are constantly being touted to demonstrate that Jewish Communities in both the US and the UK are seeing a dramatic increase.

    But compared to what? With the current hate crime laws on the books such statistics are then grouped together into their own individual pockets of reporting data and subsequently can only be compared with other data in the same group. It is a very narrowly focused way to analyze such data but I imagine it was designed that way.

    However, let us just say that we drop all consideration of hate crime laws and merely apply similar statistics to the general population with crimes committed against people of the Jewish faith as just one aspect of such an analysis. Such crime could then be viewed in a different light.

    Let us continue by viewing all such crimes against people of the Jewish faith as a crime of assault. Whether a person was actually assaulted or witnessed, lets say for argument sake, the vandalism of a Jewish cemetery, all such crimes would be judged instead as a crime of assault, which would include both physical assault and community assault (vandalism).

    I looked up such statistics in the United States for 2018. In the United States alone there was reported over 800,000 crimes of assault that ran the gamut of all assault types. For the US Jewish Community only 1800+ crimes would have been reported had there been no actual hate crimes on the books.

    The result is that Jewish Community itself actually realized a mere fraction of all the crimes reported. And since we are comparing in some cases “apples to oranges” as we are placing all such crimes against the Jewish Communities into a more generic segment of law, we could then assume that the included area of vandalism against a Jewish Community would reduce actual assault metrics to a noticeable degree.

    All people of all faiths, persuasions, creeds, nationalities, and whatever else one wants to consider should be rightfully protected under general laws with equitable legal responses to all.

    This doesn’t necessarily happen to all where US African American incur rather inequitable responses from legal authorities even for very legitimate claims.

    However, considering the massive wealth of various Jewish Communities around the world that remain somewhat insulated in that they for the most part all live in heavily populated Jewish areas, it is striking that so much crime is now being reported against these communities.

    Just a few years ago an article was written (I believe on CounterPunch.org) where the author had studied quite a bit of data over the years regarding actual antisemitism in the United States and found that not only was it in serious decline and had been for many years but that what remained of this form of prejudice was fairly benign.

    I cannot say for certain what is going on the UK but it could be that being a smaller population than that of the US, Jewish Community agitation against the public welfare may be more prominent and thus open to more severe push-back. And this is where the antisemitism is actually coming from.

    Thus a more serious approach would be to analyze what such acts of intolerance are done out of actual prejudice and what are being done as part of a more general reaction to Jewish Community intrigues.

    One thing is for sure is that the world at large is becoming increasingly tired of Jewish victimhood and its subsequent promotion. This growing trend is not going to bold well for the Jewish Communities if left unchecked. However, how can one stem the tide of a growing anger at a Community that appears to continue those activities that are the basis for such a reaction.

    Surely not all Jews are involved and nor do they support such activities but those at the top of the sociological ladders in Jewish Communities seem to have no caring for the sensitivities of others…

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  116. @Fran Taubman

    Jihad does make sense though, doesn’t it? ‘Self defence’, taking the fight to the enemy, the electorate in a democracy is political, so a reasonable target. How is this not what Israel does when it snipes kids from behind a border, pre-empts some bombs on Syria, pokes the US into assassinating Suleimani?

    Actually what you imagine terrorist jihad to be like, is not the jihad of the Quran, but more the ‘jihad’ of aggressive war – that old Deuteronomy 20 and Sanhedrin 2 take on war.

    The Quran says that jihad is to push out invaders. The Empire forces are, invaders. Not like this is something new – how many European crusades to the ME? Maybe the atheists in the west see this as a secular oil crusade, but there are enough factions for whom the last century has been a religious crusade for the ME, against Islam.

    Anyways, it’s like talking to rapists who don’t acknowledge they are raping..

  117. @Colin Wright

    Land is just land, some fraction of a nation can be sold off, but the fair price would just be very high. States used to trade land until not too long ago, if the leaders would, the people, at least some of them, would too.

    Yes, Israel doesn’t accept anything but cultic submission to its whims. Maybe another cycle of action, result of action will help them learn, the historical or a-historical evidence is not great back-data though!

  118. S says:
    @Anonymous

    British people almost think of themselves as Jews in a subconcious sort of way.

    Historically there’s been an absurd belief amongst powerful elements of the Anglo-Saxon elites and hangers on that they were of the ‘lost tribes of Israel’. This was called ‘British-Israelism’. Queen Elizabeth is said to believe this even now.

    In the United States this was often called ‘American Israelism’ though it is more or less the same thing.

    This error was compounded with the unfortunate ‘New Rome’ ideology held by many of these same A-S elites and hangers on. [See the two links below on British Israelism and the New Rome.]

    Generally, people would be a whole lot better off simply accepting/embracing their actual origins and not telling themselves tall tales and fables in addition to staying out of ‘the empire’ business.

    ‘O, what a tangled web we weave,
    When first we practise to deceive!’

    The [British-Israelism] movement was not without important followers among the aristocracy in this period, with such notables as Queen Victoria, King Edward VII, King George VI, and currently Queen Elizabeth II all embracing the tenets of British-Israelism. These, and many others in the aristocratic and wealthy circles of British society, looked to the movement for different things. Many of them found a rationale for their continued rule and their Empire’s existence amidst a world of growing adversaries.

    https://revneal.org/Writings/Writings/british.htm

    https://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/the_new_rome_or_the_united_states_of_the_world_1853

  119. Agent76 says:

    Jan 22, 2020 UK PM Johnson answers questions from MPs ahead of Brexit deadline

    UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson takes questions from MPs in the House of Commons on Wednesday, January 22, ahead of the Brexit deadline.

  120. Maybe the US and UK should bomb Iran and kill a few million innocent women and children to show them better manners. Aside from that similarity between both police states the morons believe in voting. As in – the stars will align and it will do them a bit of good.

    Debating the relatives merits of Corbyn, Trump, Blair, Obama and other creatures from the dark lagoon shows the complete capture and defeat of the public mind. Europeans have had some better things for many years – suppressed by media liars for decades – like food and health care, but the overall intellectual capacity of a UK voter doesn’t much exceed that of an American voter.

  121. @9/11 Inside job

    The biggest misinformation about Palestinian/Israel is landownership. That Jews stole Palestinian land, is a huge huge lie. The land belonged to the Turks in the Ottoman Empire.
    Arab ownership by the bedouins was difficult due to taxation.
    You are correct that 7% of the land was owned by Jews, but 70% of the land was uninhabitable, arid and eroded. Jews invented irrigation systems that made the land farmable. They built the land up and it caused massive Arab immigration. These are just facts. There are documents to prove this.
    The Jews built Israel up from nothing, and worked the land themselves.

    Here is the summary.

    Land Ownership in 1948

    The claim is often made that in 1948 a Jewish minority owning only 5 per cent of the land of Palestine made itself master of the Arab majority, which owned 95 per cent of the land.

    In May 1948 the State of Israel was established in only part of the area allotted by the original League of Nations Mandate. 8.6 percent of the land was owned by Jews and 3.3 per cent by Israeli Arabs, while 16.9 per cent had been abandoned by Arab owners who imprudently heeded the call from neighbouring countries to “get out of the way” while the invading Arab armies made short shrift of Israel. The rest of the land—over 70 per cent—had been vested in the Mandatory Power, and accordingly reverted to the State of Israel as its legal heir. (Government of Palestine, Survey of Palestine, 1946, British Government Printer, p. 257.)

    The greater part of this 70 per cent consisted of the Negev, some 3,144,250 acres all told, or close to 50 per cent of the 6,580,000 acres in all of Mandatory Palestine. Known as Crown or State Lands, this was mostly uninhabited arid or semi-arid territory, inherited originally by the Mandatory Government from Turkey. In 1948 it passed to the Government of Israel.

    These lands had not been owned by Arab farmers—neither under the British Mandate nor under the preceding regime. Thus it is obvious that the contention that 95 per cent of the land—whether of Mandatory Palestine or of the State of Israel—had belonged to Arabs has absolutely no foundation in fact.

    To read the nuts and bolts rest of the article. Here it is.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/lessons-from-the-tory-landslide-11576540523?mod=opinion_featst_pos3

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @barr
  122. @anarchyst

    and let me guess the crypto Jewish priest were the pedophiles!!!!
    How did I guess the correct answer. Not even a Jepardy question.

    It is fact that crypto-jews did infiltrate and damage the Catholic Church by posing as “converts” and joining the clergy…the homosexual pedophilia clergy being the latest problem.

    I guessed it before you wrote it. hmmm

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @BDS Always
  123. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    As far as I know there are no government funds available for security.

    You are either stupid or a liar or both.

    https://forward.com/forward.com › news › breaking-news › jewish-groups-get-94-of-hom…
    Jewish Groups Get 94% of Homeland Security Grants – The …
    Jul 29, 2014 – The Department of Homeland Security allocated to Jewish institutions $12 million, or 94 percent, of $13 million in funds for securing nonprofits.
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/www.timesofisrael.com › us-jewish-organizations-get-9m-for-homela…

    US Jewish organizations get $9m. for ‘homeland security ...
    Aug 30, 2013 – Security grants for non-profits narrowly escape sequestration threat, with Jewish groups garnering 90% of available funds.

    https://religionnews.com/religionnews.com › 2015/05/29 › why-jewish-organizations-received-…
    Why Jewish organizations received $110 million from ...
    May 29, 2015 – The Department of Homeland Security will give $13 million dollars to … years, then over 90 percent of these grants will go to Jewish groups.

    https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/www.gillibrand.senate.gov › news › press › release › schumer-gillibra…
    Schumer, Gillibrand Announce Record-Setting $90 Million In …
    Dec 20, 2019 – Department of Homeland Security’s Nonprofit Security Grant … “Federal security funds, like those provided through NSGP, are the … Senior Director of Legislative Affairs for The Jewish Federations of North America’s (JFNA).

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  124. @Fran Taubman

    ‘You are correct that 7% of the land was owned by Jews, but 70% of the land was uninhabitable, arid and eroded. Jews invented irrigation systems that made the land farmable. They built the land up and it caused massive Arab immigration. These are just facts…’

    You’re regurgitating Joan Peter’s discredited Zionist fantasy.

    We might as well have someone who believes in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion come on here and slug it out with you. It’d be a fair match.

  125. @Steve Naidamast

    Anti-semitism is largely overblown by Jewish lobbies to scare otherwise unaware Jews into thinking there is a big threat around the corner. The most common anti-outsider sentiment in the West today is anti-Muslim, and this is because of things like child sexual abuse gangs and terror attacks.

    I do not know what the statistics for actual anti-Semitic crimes are in the UK but I would imagine that like in the United States they have been blown way out of proportion to actual crimes committed in totality.

    The Anti-Defamation League does a worldwide survey of anti-Semitic attitudes. A series of 11 anti-Semitic ‘tropes’ are given and the respondents are asked whether they think these tropes are ‘probably true’ or ‘probably false’. If the respondent answers ‘probably true’ in 6 or more of these tropes, it is determined he/she harbours anti-Semitic attitudes.

    Survey Results
    https://global100.adl.org/map
    Survey Methodology
    https://global100.adl.org/about/global100

    If we go to the Western Europe region, it is shown that Britain is the the least anti-Semitic of all the countries. This aligns closely with my personal experience as I have never interacted with anyone who has openly complained about Jews, I’ve interacted with a fair share who complain about Muslims but never Jews as the latter do not cause any conspicuous trouble like terror attacks.

    Jewish lobby groups really over-estimate the importance of Jews, this is also why they keep talking about the Holocaust, to the extent that even Raul Hillberg, seen as the pre-eminent Holocaust historian, has complained about how the Holocaust has been transformed into an emotional investment rather than just another part of history. There are apparently plans to build a £100m Holocaust memorial right near the Houses of Parliament

    This is ‘Never Forget’ taken to an entirely new level! The £100m project cost is also extortionate, although I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of that cost is for ‘consultants’ *wink wink*

    The whole anti-Semtism hysteria is laughable, with groups like Blacks who are disadvantaged (entirely their own fault IMO), one can at least feel a bit sorry for them, but with Jews, who are by far the most successful and powerful group in the West and therefore the World, it is pure chutzpah. The only reason such a successful group is able to get away with this is by exploiting the Holocaust (whatever that may constitute). I have noticed that there is invariably a Nazi or Holocaust stories in the British papers on most days, they are not prominent but they are there on the lower sections, just to keep reminding people.

    Look at the manner in which BiBi invokes the Holocaust

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-7915895/Israel-push-Iran-concerns-Holocaust-memorial.html

    • Replies: @renfro
  126. renfro says:
    @Ilya G Poimandres

    but if the Jews actually bought the sovereignty from the Palestinians themselves, for a fair price.

    Jews don’t buy,they steal..Jews worship two things..money and themselves…..Judaism is more about Jews worshiping Jews than about worshiping a God….God in Judaism is a God in the service of Jews not visa versa. You can’t read any Jewish tomes and not see that.

    After they terrorized the Palestines they made up a niffy law that seized ALL the property of native Palestines.

    https://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/E0B719E95E3B494885256F9A005AB90A
    ABSENTEES’ PROPERTY LAW, 5710-1950*

    • Agree: Ilya G Poimandres
    • Replies: @Just passing through
  127. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    These lands had not been owned by Arab farmers—neither under the British Mandate nor under the preceding regime. Thus it is obvious that the contention that 95 per cent of the land—whether of Mandatory Palestine or of the State of Israel—had belonged to Arabs has absolutely no foundation in fact.

    Your stupidity is only exceeded by the Jewish trait of lying…about everything. The Ottoman empire issued millions upon millions of acres of land in deeds to Palestine farmers.. of course having the deeds does not stop the Israelis from confiscating the land anyway.

    Ottoman archives help Palestinians reclaim their land

    RAMALLAH, West Bank — Deeds 100 years old from the Ottoman archives are helping the Palestinians in their battle to prove their rights to lands around Jerusalem and the West Bank that have been confiscated by Israel.
    Turkish officials had announced as early as 2015 that they were handing Ottoman documents to the Palestinians to help them claim ownership of properties taken over by Israel. Kudret Bulbul, head of the Turks Abroad and Related Communities Directorate of the Prime Ministry between 2014-2016, as saying that the archives included “land registers, sultans’ decrees and historical documents proving the property ownership of Palestinians in Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories.” In 2018, a full electronic archive of 140,000 documents was available, spanning over 400 years of Ottoman rule in Palestinian lands.
    Lawyers affiliated to the Colonization and Wall Resistance Commission reclaimed hundreds of lands from Israel in 2019 with the help of those records, Walid Assaf, the commission’s director, said. The commission, affiliated with the PLO, provides legal aid to citizens who appear before Israeli courts to defend their lands.
    Assaf said during a Jan. 5 press conference in Ramallah that the commission’s lawyers reclaimed 6,000 dunams (1,483 acres) in 2019. He also pointed out that another 40,000 dunams (9,884 acres) had been reclaimed since 2015 by proving that they were acquired through fraud.
    The ministry then shared the archive with the Palestinian Land Authority and the Colonization and Wall Resistance Commission. The archive includes maps, documents and real estate plans during the Ottoman rule of Palestine between 1516 and 1917.
    “The existence of historical documents proving ownership of lands over 400 years of Ottoman rule of Palestine is significant. Israel expropriated most lands under the pretext they were state property. The documents are important to prove that Palestinians owned these lands hundreds of years before the establishment of Israel.”
    Shakarna noted, “Ever since we started the project of land [Tapu] registration in 2016, we have settled the situation of 1 million dunams and registered them completely under the names of their owners in official records. Around 2 million dunams are also in the final stages of registration. The commission will finish registration of all West Bank territories by 2022.”

    Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2020/01/ottoman-archives-helps-palestinian-reclaim-their-land.html#ixzz6Bn6cksxF

    https://www.dailysabah.com/www.dailysabah.com › life › 2015/07/27 › ottoman-era-deed-saves-p…
    Ottoman-era deed saves Palestinian village in West Bank …
    Jul 27, 2015 – Ottoman-era deed saves Palestinian village in West Bank … Villagers, on the other hand, argue that Israeli authorities refused to issue building permits despite their … Palestinians, complaining of Israeli pressure on land ownership, are … Kudret Bülbül, head of the Prime Ministry’s Directorate of Turks

  128. renfro says:
    @Just passing through

    Anti-semitism is largely overblown by Jewish lobbies to scare otherwise unaware Jews into thinking there is a big threat around the corner.

    Anti semitism is all about the money….without it the holocaust fades into history and the money flow to Jews and Israel stops.

  129. @renfro

    None of your blue sites came up. They were all 404. I cannot find any info on line except for 2012.
    You may be correct it is not something I am familiar with. I can only speak of my own personal experience.
    I pray at a Chabad House which is literately a house with some chairs where maybe 30 people get together to pray. Chabad has been a target thru out the world. The massacre in Mumbai, in California etc. The Pittsburgh shooting was not a Chabad house.
    But there have been many churches attacked, and the school shootings the most violent crime.
    As a Chabad House we were scared as it is a house. So we hired security outside and inside.
    No one has ever suggested that there were funds available. Nor do I know of any other religious institutions or religious schools where funding has been made available for security.
    If you have direct knowledge please show me that institutions that is receiving funding, show me the site.

    There may be a lot of talk going on now to supply funding but none has been made available, and I doubt it will single out Jewish institutions, but all religious institutions under threat.
    But as I mentioned earlier my particular place of worship has been under direct thereat, and yes we are nervous.

    But you are a Jew hater so what good are facts to you. You have a story a pattern of thinking no rational comments will ever brake thru your brain.

  130. @Colin Wright

    Fran claims to be just another average apolitcal Jew who comes here to counter false narratives, on the surface this story is believable. Unfortunately for Fran, she betrays her virulent Zionist by the kinds of posts that you replied to. It is indeed true that From Time Immemorial was debunked a long time ago by Norman G. Finkelstein, and a virulent Jewish supremacist like Fran must have been aware of that particular spat between Peters and Finkelstein…yet Fran chooses to repeat the same Zionist lies? I think we know what’s going on here.

    I personally welcome her contributions, it is truly a spectacle seeing Zionists coming to the Unz comments sections and trying to pull the same Hasbara tricks they use on the silly Goyim through mass media. It also gives an insight into the mind of Fran Taubmans the world over.

  131. @Colin Wright

    From the Rhor institute, with documents from the Ottoman Empire. If you have facts post them.
    Land deeds are recorded. Land masses photographed.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/lessons-from-the-tory-landslide-11576540523?mod=opinion_featst_pos3

    Lots of facts and figures hope you are up to the task.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @renfro
  132. @Fran Taubman

    Originally Socialism was about the peasants who were uneducated and some were slaves.

    Not even close. Socialism was about re-taking the means of production. Under the Guild System, the Craft Guilds, from carpenters to weavers everything in between, determined the number, quality, and price of locally produced goods, and was geared to local the local economy. For furniture, the carpenter had to rely on the woodsman/sawyer for the raw material, and the polisher/finisher for the finished product. The “crafts” were the middle class. If there was a surplus, it would be sold to the trade guilds who dealt overwhelmingly in export. Finance capital and the Trade Guilds bribed enough politicians to erode then eventually dismantle the Craft Guilds, allowing finance capital and trade guilds to seize the means of production. It opened the door for the rapid expansion of the industrial revolution and displacement of rural populations to urban areas.
    The “socialists” believed that all wealth is derived from labour, and that finance capitalists should be replaced with co-operatives. In essence, it was returning the means of production to those who actually made things, rather than the finance capitalists who profited from what they saw as the stolen fruits of others’ labour.

  133. @renfro

    Remember this gem of a video?

    A very quick introduction to the origins of Israel-Palestine conflict, a must watch for all.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  134. @Wazdo

    Not ignoring you, I am not sure I know the answers…

  135. Truth3 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    But you are a Jew hater so what good are facts to you.

    You are a hater of all mankind, like the rest of you Jews.

  136. Truth3 says:
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Jews used Socialism to take over Governments and Countries.

    The USSR was the most powerful example.

  137. @Fran Taubman

    ‘From the Rhor institute, with documents from the Ottoman Empire. If you have facts post them.
    Land deeds are recorded. Land masses photographed.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/lessons-from-the-tory-landslide-11576540523?mod=opinion_featst_pos3

    Lots of facts and figures hope you are up to the task.’

    Whatever’s there is behind a paywall. In any case, it’s an article on ‘the Tory Landslide’ — so I find it improbable it contains revelations from the Ottoman archives.

    Really, Fran. Aren’t you a bit out of your league?

  138. barr says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “the Muslim Brotherhood assassinated Anwar Sadat for making peace with Israel”

    Like Rabin was killed by settler religious occupier fanatic ! But he won His inciter came to power . He went to jail but Likudniks came to power and shredded Oslo .
    Rabin’s wife blamed the righting ant peace wing of politics.

    Muslim Brotherhood was banned

    That banning should have covered Netanhay Bennet Liberman and Barak

  139. @Just passing through

    ‘… It also gives an insight into the mind of Fran Taubmans the world over.’

    I’m not sure what’s inside the mind of dull-witted tribal bigots is worth getting an insight into. Frans are hardly unique to Jewry; one can find them in almost any national group. What’s special about the Jewish Frans is their power, not their vileness.

    I console myself with the thought that her thoughtless idiocies keep providing me with further opportunities to damn Zionism for the vicious cathedral of lies that it is.

    I suppose I really should just set her on ‘ignore’ — but I can’t stand the thought of all her vicious lies going unrebutted. After all, even as I write, we’re about to get dragged into a truly evil and futile war on account of all this nonsense. Whether endlessly tearing Fran a new one will help to avert that is doubtful — but one does feel compelled to do what one can.

    ‘For it is evil things that we shall be fighting…’

    • Replies: @Truth3
  140. Art says:

    Take heart folks — the Overton Window is shifting!




    There is hope for England.

    • Replies: @BDS Always
  141. @renfro

    The $60 million for fiscal year 2019 to fund the Nonprofit Security Grant Program, or NSGP, which helps synagogues, other houses of worship, religious day schools and a variety of nonprofits improve the security of their buildings was part of the larger $330 billion spending bill signed on Friday that averts a government shutdown.

    For all religious institutions, and NSGP

    Funds are typically spent on cameras, barriers and other items that reinforce security at Jewish institutions. Since the program’s 2005 launch, most of the funds have gone to Jewish nonprofits, but in recent years Muslim and African-American church groups also have expressed interest in obtaining the grants.

    Jews are probably pretty low end of welfare recipients, food stamps etc.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  142. @Just passing through

    What a fake video a bad acting job at that. The guy trying to fake the standard trope about Jews.
    You got to be kidding me.

    • Replies: @Art
  143. @Fran Taubman

    Pedophilia ‘Rampant’ In Orthodox Judaism
    By Rev. Ted Pike.

    https://www.cwporter.com/kikerape.htm

  144. Crazy Horse says: • Website
    @Gilad Atzmon

    Too late Gil that’s already happened. Same with the Replications. Both have pledged allegiance to AIPAC placing it over and above their oath of office. Perfect example is Trumpenstien overturning the First Amendment by EO in order to censor “antisemitism” which includes any criticism of the terrorist state’s genocidal policies.

    It was obvious the clown had no respect for International Law by giving away the Golan Heights. Now it should be obvious he doesn’t give a shit about the Constitution either. Oh the irony that he’s accusing the Democrats of the same thing when they impeached him. Of course their “charges” are contrived and don’t rise to the level of “high crimes and misdemeanors” like Clinton they could have found actual ones but ’nuff said. Even so it’s hard to tell who’s the pot and which one’s the kettle since they’re both just as bad.

  145. @Fran Taubman

    /A very disrespectful comment./

    The calculus of Fran: observation = disrespect; legitimate critique = anti-Semitism.

    Wash, rinse, repeat.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  146. Truth3 says:
    @Colin Wright

    What’s special about the Jewish Frans is their power, not their vileness.

    No… it’s the vileness.

  147. The positive reaction to Burgon’s comments suggests that Labour supporters are still attuned to their party’s ideas. It is just the leadership that has drifted.

    As we all should know, a herd of lions led by a sheep can accomplish a lot less than a herd of sheep led by a lion. RIP Labour party.

  148. anarchyst says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Not in the “jews-only” community of Kiryas Joel. A majority of the jews in that community are receiving some kind of “public assistance” as well as running welfare scams.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  149. @Gilad Atzmon

    About the dissolution of the US democrats: I hope against all odds that you are right.

  150. @Just passing through

    My statistics have nothing to do with Petersons book. Finkelstein himself has been debunked.
    What is your point? These statistics are based on Ottoman land data. Your last post showing recent archives disputing Jewish land ownership. Those disputes are about a small amount of land, not major swaths of land.
    You can call me a liar, but look no further than the Jew haters on this site for fakery and lies.
    Blatant disinformation.

  151. @anarchyst

    Yeah not a pretty picture over in Kiryas Joes, but not typical of Jewish communities in the US.
    Compare to immigration welfare and fraud for illegal immigration and compare it to the taxation base of the Jewish communities in the US. We pay our share.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  152. barr says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Regarding the myth that Zionists “made the desert bloom.”

    In a memorandum to Colonial Secretary Lord Passfield, dated 17 January 1930, John Chancellor, Britain’s high commissioner for Palestine, called for a complete suspension of Jewish immigration and land purchase to protect Arab agriculture, pointing out that “all cultivable land was occupied; that no cultivable land now in possession of the indigenous population could be sold to Jews without creating a class of landless Arab cultivators.”
    A government survey conducted in 1944 estimated that the area Jews had under cultivation in all of Palestine was 716,750 dunams (one dunam equals about a quarter of an acre) which as of 1948, amounted to about 5.67 per cent of the entire country (Hadawi, Bitter Harvest, p. 50). When the British Mandate ended on 15 May 1948, the total area of Palestine under cultivation by Arab farmers was 5,484,700 dunams compared to 425,450 dunums by Jewish farmers
    Figures in Negev :Palestinian farming was 2,109,234 dunums as of 1935, whereas by 1946, the total amount of Jewish owned land in the Negev did not exceed 21,000 dunums. (
    More revealing, however, is the fact that in 1944 the area of the Negev alone under cultivation by Palestinians “was three times the total area cultivated by the entire Jewish community
    In 1939, Palestine exported over 15 million cases of citrus fruits In 1942, Palestine produced nearly 305,000 tons of grains and legumes In 1943, Palestine produced 280,000 tons of fruit, excluding citrus fruits In 1945, Palestine produced nearly 245,000 tons of vegetables and had over 600,000 dunums (150,000 acres) of land planted with olive trees that produced nearly 80,000 tons of olives and accounted for one per cent of the world’s total olive oil production
    During the 1944-1945 planting season, nearly 210,000 tons of grain were cultivated in Palestine, of which 193,376 tons were Arab crops, compared to 16,579 tons of Jewish crops. Almost 80,000 tons of olives were cultivated that year, over 78,000 tons of which were grown by Arab Palestinians. Of the over 244,800 tons of vegetables produced in Palestine that season, Arab farmers were responsible for more than 189,000 tons; of the 94,700 tons of fruit, Arab orchards produced 73,000 tons. Nearly 143,000 tons of melons were cultivated, over 135,600 tons of which were Arab-produced, while almost all of the more than 1,680 tons of tobacco grown were on Arab farms, as were 20,000 tons of figs and 3,000 tons of almonds. Eighty percent of the 40-50,000 tons of grapes and 4-5 million liters of wine were produced in Arab vineyards. The survey found that in Jericho, Tiberias and in the central coastal plain, ‘about 60 per cent of the area (nearly 8,000 dunums) planted with bananas is Arab owned.’ The overall price of the Palestinian agricultural yield that season was more than £21,800,000. Jewish cultivation was responsible for nearly £4,711,000 compared with Palestinian Arab production of over £17,100,000, accounting for almost 80% of total value.”
    As of 1979, “About 80 percent, and probably more, of the 2,185,000 dunums ‘brought into cultivation’ [by Israel] since 1948…constitute farmland belonging to Palestinian refugees.” (Alan George, Making the Desert Bloom…” p. 99)
    The truth is that during the first three decades of Israel’s existence when it received a net import of capital totalling $31.5 billion (Maariv, 1 July 1977) and had the use of modern agricultural equipment as well as sophisticated farming techniques, its record of land cultivation was quite poor. “[T]he area within what became Israel actually being farmed by Arabs in 1947 was greater than the physical area which was under cultivation in Israel almost thirty years later…. The impressive expansion of Israel’s cultivated area since 1948 has been more apparent than real since it involved mainly the ‘reclamation’ of farmland belonging to the refugees; this is probably as true for the Negev desert as for the rest of Israel.” Comment by
    Misterioso on March 12, 2018, 10:58 am
    https://mondoweiss.net/2018/03/israel-desert-helped/

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @Fran Taubman
  153. melpol says:

    Few Ashkenazi Jews are Holy Land Zionists because only as a last resort did Jews want to emigrate to an Arab Occupied Desert. The Atheist Jewish Exodus to Palestine began only to escape from the European murderers that Hitler left behind. Millions of Ashkenazi Jews chose NYC, London, or Paris rather than spend their lives in a Mythical Sheikdom by the Sea. Meeting A genuine Zionist in NYC, London, or Paris is rare, because most show no overt support for Israel. Diaspora Jews love Gefilte Fish mixed with Radish, it serves to remind them of their Eurasian Ashkenazi heritage.

  154. Pft says:

    Seems the majority of British people have enough to worry about than Israel and Jews. Strikes me a bit as a red herring issue, perhaps designed so as to indicate who deserves more support of the elite and who should be shown the gates. An election within an election if you will, the the actual voters in the election given secondary consideration. If you have the support of the controlled media and manipulated polls have your back, you win since most of the bubble head voters cant think for themselves. Those who don’t move on to oblivion.

  155. Art says:
    @Fran Taubman

    You got to be kidding me.

    No Little Jew — we and the world have the truth on our side – here is your inferior Jews killing Palestinian youth – Shame – Shame.

    http://english.pnn.ps/2020/01/22/israeli-tanks-execute-three-gaza-youths-on-border/

    The Overton Window is moving against you bloody Jew – “the six million lie” is coming to an end – and “9/11 truth” is to follow.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm

    p.s. Your days of claiming victimhood are over.

    • Agree: BDS Always
  156. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Land deeds are recorded.

    Palestine farmers were deeded millions of acres of land and were recorded by the Ottormans .

    As I proved in my post 127….which of course you didnt reply to because you cant formulate a lie to dispute it.

    Ottoman archives help Palestinians reclaim their land
    https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2020/01/ottoman-archives-helps-palestinian-reclaim-their-land.html#ixzz6Bn6cksxF

    Keep the lies coming …we can disprove all of them.

    • Agree: BDS Always
    • Replies: @BDS Always
    , @Fran Taubman
  157. barr says:
    @Colin Wright

    May be this person should be reminded that sanctions had killed millions in Iraq Iran Syria Somalia Libya and Sudan . How did we blame them? How was it their faults?
    The leaders and the hanger-on known as ruling elite ( not even elected by the citizen as are the ruling elites of Israel) were treated as villain and were presumably targeted by the sanctions that killed those millions . They were not simply faulted by some vague words ! They were killed. They were deformed at birth.

    Someone in 1991 told that it was the fault of the Iraqi citizen that they did not get rid of Saddam .

    Now we hear clear unambiguous message from Isarel and from USA that sanctions are meant to hurt and kill the Iranian and Gazan ( putting them on diet) in order to force them to rise against the ruling elite . This last piece is called terrorism ( violence against innocent to execute political change )

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  158. @Art

    People are waking up to the lies…

    Shame that people have not woken up to the self titled “Man Of People” Nigel Farage who is just another Zionist puppet.

    With UKIP and his new brexit party he managed to fool life long labour supporters in taking their vote elsewhere so that Labour would not win an election and keeping Zionist lovers in control of the country.

    Britain’s UKIP – another Zionist lobby tool.
    https://www.redressonline.com/2013/02/britains-ukip-another-zionist-lobby-tool/

    The Zionist Billionaires Behind Nigel Farage.
    https://www.the-british-magazine.uk/the-zionist-billionaires-behind-nigel-farage/

  159. renfro says:
    @barr

    Well the Jews have even managed to ruin their stolen farm land now. They’ve paved it over to build more incubators to house their Jews. They are a locust herd , striping and destroying everything they touch, countries, nature….

    Number of Israeli farms dropped 61% over four decades
    – Number of Israeli farms dropped 61% over four decades. Israel is still supplying most of its own fresh produce, meat, chicken and milk, but the number of farms in the country plunged by 61% between 1981 and 2017, according to the first census of the industry taken by the Central Bureau of Statistics in four decades
    https://www.freshplaza.com/article/9181547/number-of-israeli-farms-dropped-61-over-four-decades/

    Which is another reason they steal what Palestine farm land is left

    Israel plans to seize West Bank farmland: Army Radio – Reuters
    Jan 20, 2016 – JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Israel plans to appropriate a large tract of agricultural land in the occupied West Bank, Israel’s Army Radio said on .

    If aid to Israel ceased and Palestines regained their land Israel would wither and die….its Jews would be back on the interstate looking for a new nest to foul.

    • Replies: @barr
  160. @renfro

    Great bit of information thanks.

  161. @Fran Taubman

    Christianity and Judaism have teemed up??

    Christianity meltdown in its own birthplace? Western churches ignore multiple warnings.

    Ten years ago a group of Christian Palestinians issued “a cry of hope in the absence of all hope”, reflecting their country’s decades of suffering under brutal Israeli occupation. They said they hadreached a dead end in the tragedy of the Palestinian people because international decision-makers contented themselves with “managing” the crisis rather than solving it.

    https://www.redressonline.com/2020/01/christianity-meltdown-in-its-own-birthplace-western-churches-ignore-multiple-warnings/

    Palestinian Christians have been robbed of their land and driven from their homes. They have also suffered attacks on their lives; Jewish extremists, protected by the Israeli government, have attacked Palestinian Christian leaders with bombs, guns and knives. Palestinian Christians’ farmland has been torched – all part of Israel’s ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign against Palestinians.

    https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/phone/forbidden-pilgrimage.html

    • Agree: Nonny Mouse
    • LOL: Fran Taubman
  162. @renfro

    I am only allowed two post in one hour. I cannot answer all of these posts at once.
    The land in dispute does not include large swaths of Israel, if the dispute shows Palestinian ownership it should be reminded in the courts.

    How do you propose toe remedy the 800,00 Jewish refugees kicked out of Arab lands with no restitution for their loss of land and money?
    Are you going to give them back their land? It is all about Arab victimization.

  163. Karel says:
    @Colin Wright

    Applies to you. Read it first before making simple-minded statements.

  164. Karel says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran nice to learn that

    “We now have a middle class and upward mobility.’

    But perhaps you meant a downward mobility? Can you tell the difference between up and down?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  165. Crazy Horse says: • Website
    @Fran Taubman

    Gee, sorry to read this Fran. Has your Hasberra Clown Room supervisor got you on other special tasks?

  166. @AnonStarter

    Now hang on a second. You accused me of pretending to be dumb.

    You either aren’t paying attention or you’re playing dumb.

    Were I betting man, my money would be on the latter.

    You think my writing on this thread is playing dumb? Seriously. I am posing as myself, giving information on real time events as they occur. It is more that I am not paying attention to the distribution of funds for security. I am not. But I told you that my Chabad is not receiving funds, therefore I am not bilking the system. Yet you persist.

    You feel it appropriate to accuse “Zionist” of bilking the system with no substantiated proof.
    It would be like me accusing Muslim immigrants of bilking the system with welfare and food stamps. It is common knowledge and in the news that many immigrants are taking advance of the welfare, healthcare and food stamp assistances while not paying taxes. I know no Muslims to accuse of that.

    Your label of “Zionist” in your discussion is pure taqiyya, you really mean to hide your racism of Jews behind Zionism. It is obvious Zionist don’t apply for security grants. Jewish religious institutions apply. Zionism used in this context is so inappropriate it could only be used by a racist hiding behind a duplicitous cover of Zionism.

    Do you see how obviously fake your Zionist claim is and how spurious your accusations of me are? rinse and repeat.

  167. barr says:
    @Fran Taubman

    “Oh yeah Crypto Jewish priest infiltrating and ruining Catholicism. Jews everywhere.”

    Inquisition was ordered to stop the infiltration .

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  168. @Karel

    Oy vey
    Listen I know very little about the socialism in an academic way.
    I will say what I know.
    Capitalism has brought more people along to wealth and prosperity in the middle and upper class then any other system ever created. That is why socialism is so unpopular.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @bluedog
    , @barr
  169. barr says:
    @renfro

    “If aid to Israel ceased”
    Most of those Jews who immigrated between 1900 and `1935 , left Palestine because they couldn’t find jobs ,enjoy skills,or learn new techniques to survive in Palestine .
    Diaspora had started long before the temple came down under Roman sword ,Jews had been migrating in search for better life.

    Yes that is the fate of the Jewry unless they blow up the entire world .

    • Replies: @Nonny Mouse
  170. barr says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Zionism and Hinduism are teaming up in India . In Mynamar Zionism and Buddhism are teaming up.

  171. anarchyst says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Anywhere there’s “chabad” there is fraud.

  172. Hibernian says:
    @Karel

    It is as if someone claimed that Conan Doyle identified with the murderers decribed in his writings.

    Who’s to say he didn’t?

    • Replies: @Karel
  173. anarchyst says:
    @barr

    The modern-day infiltration of the Catholic Church started in the early 1900s No pogrom or inquisition here.

    Ya know, I think we could get along…

    Regards,

  174. @Fran Taubman

    /You think my writing on this thread is playing dumb? Seriously. I am posing as myself, giving information on real time events as they occur./

    Begging your humble pardon: you are not “playing” dumb. When it comes to dumb, it appears you’re the real deal. Case in point:

    /You feel it appropriate to accuse “Zionist” of bilking the system with no substantiated proof./

    Had you bothered to access the embedded link at this post, you wouldn’t sound nearly so insipid:

    https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/for-the-0-5-not-the-99-5/#comment-3673502

    You claimed that schizophrenics attacked Jews. I pointed out that this means those attacks shouldn’t be exploited by zionists to advance hate crime legislation and grab more government money, as they didn’t arise from any rational anti-Semitism. I then provided proof that zionists such as Chuck Schumer were, in fact, exploiting those attacks by schizophrenics toward the very ends described above.

    If you’re not playing dumb, then you really need to leave this venue, as you’re simply not up to the task of defending your people with any knowledgeable, conscientious argument.

  175. He forgot the one legged transgender Jewish community (the 0.5% of the 0.5% of the 0.5%). All this antisemitic bullying is making people wake up. It is counter productive and absurd. Whatever legitimate grievances they had have long since worn out. They want the Poles to pay reparations for lost land and property? What about the Palestinians? Can they sue the Jews? What about the 5 kings and 47 world leaders that are sucking up to global-Zionism in Jerusalem right now (the 75th holocaust memorial or something like that). The Kings of the earth are eager to commit fornication with her (LOL).

    They really are flaunting their victim-hood (power) right now. Must be getting ready for a war or something. Get the goyim into line. Look at the goyim leaders all suck-up and do the “goy shuffle”. No one dare speak the truth. Well, I will.

    God has seen your wickedness and has taken your measure and found you wanting. The time of your judgement is almost upon you again. You can cry all you will and blame everyone for hating you as much as you want but it will not save you. Only repentance will save you. http://www.biblaridion.info/blog

  176. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Capitalism has brought more people along to wealth and prosperity in the middle and upper class then any other system ever created…’

    ? What about Judaism?

    (apologies to any innocent bystanders. It was just too good to resist.)

  177. @AnonStarter

    You claimed that schizophrenics attacked Jews. I pointed out that this means those attacks shouldn’t be exploited by zionists to advance hate crime legislation and grab more government money, as they didn’t arise from any rational anti-Semitism. I then provided proof that zionists such as Chuck Schumer were, in fact, exploiting those attacks by schizophrenics toward the very ends described above.

    From Scuhmer:

    SCHUMER: PERSISTENT AND GROWING SPATE OF HATE CRIMES IN AMERICA IS A NATIONAL CRISIS; SENATOR DEMANDS MUCH STRONGER FED ACTION TO BRING RELIEF TO AT-RISK RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS NY & NATION; OUTLINES PLAN TO INCREASE FUNDS TO PROTECT PLACES OF WORSHIP & PROSECUTE HATE CRIMES

    I mean where do you live? This legislation is for at risk religious institutions. That includes all religions. How you are making this a Zionist bilking scheme is mind boggling. I am clueless.
    Did you know that a Church in Texas was attacked and a man shot the killer in the church?
    The Black church shot at in Charlottesville? Zionist???

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @AnonStarter
  178. @barr

    May be this person should be reminded that sanctions had killed millions in Iraq Iran Syria Somalia Libya and Sudan .

    How do sanctions “kill” ? They are merely tariffs imposed from the outside. Grow your own food, mix your own medicine, etc, and you’ll be fine.

    If Cuba can survive, all these other countries can as well.

    • Replies: @barr
  179. Someone should remind the ‘kneeling enthusiast’ that in his entire career, Corbyn never criticised Jews, Judaism or Jewishness.

    Why not? A desert faith that scribbles backwards, keeps a lunar calendar, mutilates children’s private parts, makes fully conscious animals bleed slowly to death, and won’t even allow its adherents to enjoy a simple pork chop, has nothing to say to the modern world. Screw ’em.

    He did criticise Israel and Zionism, while making a clear distinction between Jews and Zionism.

    That’s the problem. Zionism is a Godsend for those annoyed by Jews. With any other minority, it’s called “repatriation”, and is encouraged and applauded. Why this one exception?

  180. @Jake

    By WASP you mean P.

    Your heretical idea of a Judaizing heresy within Christianity is very American. Try to learn what Christianity really is. Start by reading the New Testament, if you know what that is.

  181. @barr

    I post a history of the land of Palestinian prior to 1948 by the Rhor Institue
    And oh my you post a refutation of my post, and yours is real and mine is fake. How does that work?
    I have started an extensive research for empirical facts to sort it out. From what I can find.
    There was a survey called: The 1946 survey of the land of Palestine by the Government of Palestine. That is where your posted facts are from. The survey was prepared for Anglo American Committee of Inquiry to sort out the causes and effects of Israel/Palestine.

    The facts of the survey were disputed and corrected by

    American Jewish Committee LIBRARY
    ” In response to the demand that the memoranda prepared by the Government of Palestine in December and January last for the information of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry should be made available to the public a limited number of this Survey has been reprinted for sale. The opportunity has been taken to amend or delete a number of statements or figures which, as given in the original memoranda, were either incorrect or liable to misinterpretation. The Committee has been informed of the cor- rections made and has been supplied with the amended text

    I have not had enough time to study all of the facts of pros and cons. But your research is not more factual then mine. You do not own the truth. You are quoting a thread of Mondoweiss blog, that is not a valid research source. I will research further and get back to you.

    • Replies: @barr
    , @Colin Wright
    , @renfro
  182. @Fran Taubman

    Schumer is himself a schizophrenic, albeit a high-functioning one.

    And he has this fetish about other people’s firearms. I have little love for Freudian analysis, but it might be of use here.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
    , @bluedog
  183. barr says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Jews left in droves soon after arrival for years until 1940

    They left because they couldn’t survive despite large sums of money collected from US and from big Jewish bankers by the Jewish bodies
    They didn’t function well enough to survive on their own . Financial help did not mitigate the situation

    No dowries is million times better than some Zionist source .

  184. @Fran Taubman

    What you failed to quote from Schumer was that he began his press release by citing the Monsey attack, which you yourself claimed was perpetrated by a schizophrenic, and as such, shouldn’t qualify as an “anti-Semitic hate crime.” Schumer is exploiting an offense committed by an irrational, mentally-ill individual to increase funding for the prosecution of “hate crimes” as well.

    Whether or not other communities take advantage of this is a strawman argument you introduced to the discussion. “Hate crime” legislation is superfluous when we already have perfectly good laws against assault on the books.

    • Agree: renfro
  185. @AnonStarter

    zionists such as Chuck Schumer

    I do not know where you live or where you come from but this is just illiterate.
    Chuck Schumer is a United Stars Senator from the State of New York with a heavy heavy Jewish constituency. He as a senator is suppose to serve his constituents.
    If there is violent crime going on in his state his job is to protect his constituents. Thus his request for federal funding.

    If there was violence against religious Mormons in Utah. The senator of Utah would be asking for federal grant money to protect the people of Utah.

    If someone with a hatchet walked into a mosque in Detroit the Senator from the State if Michigan would be asking the federal government for federal funds to protect the Muslim community. That is the way representative government works.

    FYI. If it were a mosque I would be supporting protection for Muslims in a big way. No one should be hatcheted in America no?

    I for the life of me cannot understand your Zionist argument. Because Schumer is Jewish his request is fraudulent? Do you not want Jewish citizens protected?
    Is it that you do not want Zionist to request the protection of Zionist using federal money? What exactly is your point?

    All I can say is that if you do not like Jews or Zionist New York is probably not a good place for you to live. Or maybe no where in America if you are not interested in the protection of your fellow citizens because they are Zionist.

  186. Truth3 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    They got what they deserved… Jews killed Palestinians to steal their land first.

  187. @Fran Taubman

    ‘I post a history of the land of Palestinian prior to 1948 by the Rhor Institue…’

    Actually, you didn’t. If you look at your own posts you’ll see what you posted was a link to an apparently irrelevant Wall Street Journal article.

    In any case, the ‘Rohr Institute’ is an outlet for Chabad propaganda. What credibility could it possibly have? You might as well post links to Joan Peters.

  188. @barr

    Diasora never started. All a lie. Why the Septuagint by 200 BC? Why did Jesus denounce all the proselytizing? The legacy of Alexander, the Greek-speaking world, the Jewish golden era.

  189. @Fran Taubman

    Why were they kicked out of Arab lands where they had lived in peace for over a thousand years, and when? When and why?

  190. @Fran Taubman

    But there have been many churches attacked, and the school shootings the most violent crime.
    As a Chabad House we were scared as it is a house. So we hired security outside and inside.

    That previously quoted passage from chapter uno of the Tanya. Because, this experience is dependently originated, it is mostly a mirror. Throw out any emotion – laughter, tears, nerves… – and those around you are likely to catch it, most are empathising creatures. That throws out hate, and gets back hate. (here people throw out reason, and ask for reason in return)

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  191. @AnonStarter

    “Hate crime” legislation is superfluous when we already have perfectly good laws against assault on the books.

    Arguably only in a universal world.. If Jews were superior in some way, they could get some extra laws for themselves! 😉

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  192. @Reg Cæsar

    I agree merely mouth weasel. The worst senator ever.
    Schifff Schumer and Nadler are just the worst.
    Schumer never says anything intelligent. I don’t think schizophrenic is the right word. More like catatonic. .

  193. Frankie P says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Fran,

    No, Schumer is not a Senator from the State of New York. He is a “Shomer”, a guardian of Israel, sent by God to use his skinny ass, non-existent muscles, and devious, lying, evil tongue to guard the Zionist carbuncle that continues to fester in the Middle East.

    “In 2010, Schumer told an AIPAC convention: “As some of you know, my name is a Hebrew word. “Schumer” comes from the Hebrew word “Shomer,” which means “guardian,” “watchman.”

    Schumer said his name was given to him “for a reason”:

    “For as long as I live, for as long as I have the privilege of serving in the Senate from New York, I will unflinchingly, unstintingly and with all of my strength be Shomer Yisrael, a guardian of Israel. Ladies and gentlemen, Am Yisrael Chai, in Israel and America, the Jewish nation lives now and forever.”

    • Agree: Truth3
    • Replies: @Frankie P
  194. Frankie P says:
    @Frankie P

    Sorry, Fran but Chuck got things mixed up. It wasn’t God sending him, it was Satan.

  195. @Fran Taubman

    I suppose I should take comfort in the fact that you make yourself look like a complete buffoon every time you bother to hammer away at the keyboard. It’s kind of sad to observe, though.

    I mean, how utterly pathetic is an attempt to convince the UR audience that Chuck Schumer isn’t a zionist and then proceed apace with the same red herring that’s already been exposed for what it is?

    Yentastrophic, I tell ya.

    • Agree: Truth3
  196. @AnonStarter

    Strawman =

    Zionist =

    Strawman =

    Hate crime legislation =

    Strawman=

    Zionist =

    Senator Schumer =

    Bullshit

    • LOL: AnonStarter
  197. @Ilya G Poimandres

    Oh, but we mustn’t forget the poor, persecuted heathen, please. You must understand that the unwashed minorities of the world are entirely incapable of enjoying equal protection in the eyes of the law without the assistance of people so confident in their superior virtue that they criminalize factual observations about their control of the media and government.

    With friends like this, …

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  198. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Did no one else find odd Mr. Atzmon’s reference to Putin as someone with whom the Prime Minister must “struggle”?

    I suspect that the author scarcely gave it a thought.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  199. @AnonStarter

    It us a striking paranoia to me, feeling always invincible but always threatened as if at the edge of extinction – like begging for a split personality disorder!

  200. Kali says:
    @Wazdo

    I can answer your question at least in part, Wazdo.

    I was born and raised in Liverpool and lived there most of my life (until my mid 40’s – I’m now 52).

    Culturally speaking, Liverpool and Manchester are socialists (the term “bolshi” remains in use today to describe argumentative beligerents and socialist champions) and supporters of the underdog (both were industrial heartlands generally kept in as state of economic depression/poverty by capitalist oppressors, or so the story goes)

    Research the Perterloo Massacre (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre ) and you’ll discover that ‘the story’ is well founded. And though many boroughs across the country were treated to the same astonishing violence, Perterloo is well remembered and honoured by the people of both cities every year.

    I guess we have long memories!

    Tory voters in both cities are considered “class trators” and, if they are known, treated as such. It’s a huge social stigma.

    If you look into Liverpools boycott of The Sun (“The Scum” as we call it) tabloid paper due to its outright lies regarding LFC fans picking the pockets of Hillsborough victims back in 1989, a boycott which continues to this day, you might get a sense of the very strong cultural unity which exists there.

    Maybe the above examples answer the first part of your question? – It really will be a cold day in hell when either city turns Tory and if electoral fraud were used there to turn them Tory, local council offices would likely be burned to the ground!

    As to your second quiery, the following may provide a very tentative reason why Liverpool voted to stay in the EU.

    The 1981 riots, which the msm described as “race riots” were, though they did begin due to racist policing in predominantly black Toxteth, South Liverpool, were actually, or very quickly became, anti-Thatcher riots, anti-unemployment riots and were greeted by the people of Liverpool with a general sense of righteousness or at least understanding. White men ventured into Toxteth from neighbouring districts to join their black brothers in their fight against police brutality (and the black struggle against racist “stop and search” police tacticts).

    South Liverpool was always multicultural in its make-up. And though there was a great deal of segregation in housing policy (hence North Liverpool remaining predominantly white) blacks, whites and Asians tended to get along, recognising that we were all pretty much in the same (shitty economic) boat. – There was never any sense of stranger-Ness or otherness between the communities. Only the Ulser Men/Orange men expressed any kind of racist hostility and we mostly hated them anyway.

    In addition, Liverpool has received considerable investment from the EU, particularly when it was named European Capital of Culture in 2008.

    No matter how misguided I feel my fellow Scourers* are in that regard (and, no, not because of immigration) I freely acknowledge that that vote was at least partly in gratitude to the EU for trastorming our city into a major tourist attraction, with all of the economic revitalisation that brings (even if many don’t directly benefit).

    Kind regards,
    Kali.

    * Scouse is a kind of meat and potatoes stew (originating in Norway) which has become the “national” dish of the city and after which, for some unfathomable reason, we are called.

    • Thanks: Parfois1
    • Replies: @Wielgus
  201. @AnonStarter

    If I am such a buffoon why waste your time responding?
    All those wasted words and time.

  202. @Ilya G Poimandres

    If this is English I cannot follow or understand and I read Tanya all the time. One thing struck me in your above riff.

    here people throw out reason, and ask for reason in return

    You are saying in splintered English that people on this site are reasonable? This site is filled with irrational hatred and devoid of all reason.
    If you are looking back at your virtue signaling and come across the word mirror Hold one up to yourself and see how rational you sound.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  203. Z-man says:
    @Just passing through

    I know but let me hear your answer.

  204. @AnonStarter

    The fact that Senator Schumer is a Zionist is irrelevant to your argument. But I guess you missed my points. It is really astonishing to watch you dance and twirl around your racist arguments with one smoke screen after another.

    If there was a Christian Senator of New York he or she would be requesting federal funding for their constituents whetger they were Jews or white or black. To ignore the use of federal funds would be irresponsible. It would not take a Muslim Senator to request federal funding for violence against Muslims.

    Back for a minute to my original observation that the recent crimes are by crazy people. I mentioned that
    in response to the accusations that Jewish behavior was causing the violence against them. Specifically the accusation that religious Jews were ethnically cleansing black neighborhoods and inciting violence. That was my point that these last violent attacks had no cause other then insanity.

    Insane people committing acts of violence has nothing to do with the use of federal funded hate crimes legislation. Repeated violence directed by anyone crazy or sane towards one religious community qualifies for federal hate crime funds. Once crimes like this get started there are often copy cats.

    If there is federal funding specifically available to protect religious groups from violence it would be irresponsible of any senator not to apply for it. That is what it is for. That is why it is a federal grant not using local and state funds.

    I have one person accusing Jews of faking anti Semitic attacks, one saying Jews caused and are responsible for the attacks on themselves and you saying Jews are scamming and bilking the system in seeking help to defend themselves.

    All in a days work.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  205. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    A Libyan work colleague of mine in the 1990s decried what he called the “militant apathy” of the British.
    George Orwell in one of his works wrote that many British people of his day preferred to ignore the existence of the British Empire. Presumably because ignoring something precludes taking a position on it.

  206. Wielgus says:
    @anonymous

    Yes. We have to be at war with Eurasia. Just because…

  207. Wielgus says:
    @Kali

    To some extent, the role of Tories was taken over by the Liberals in Liverpool, who were influential in local government from the early 1970s onward though not so successful at winning parliamentary seats.
    Religion linked to Irish immigration was also a feature of Liverpool politics for a long time, with a Catholic/Protestant division being noticeable.

  208. @Fran Taubman

    The souls of the nations of the world, however, emanate from the other, unclean kelipot which contain no good whatever, as is written in Etz Chayim, Portal 49, ch. 3, that all the good that the nations do, is done out of selfish motives.

    So the Gemara comments on the verse, “The kindness of the nations is sin” — that all the charity and kindness done by the nations of the world is only for their self-glorification…

    https://www.chabad.org/library/tanya/tanya_cdo/aid/7880/jewish/Chapter-1.htm

    I’m not discussing what you consider external to you, but what you consider internal to you. And it’s high to reject internal criticism with external casuistry and then demand that other to consider internal criticism themselves!

    Of course, if you want to look at the externals, lots of people here have hate in one meaning or another, but you can’t build a superior religion on ‘but look at them, they do it also!!’.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  209. barr says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Cuba never had international sanctions . That’s where the difference lies . Big difference .

    If sanctions could have been manged by your method,Germans would not have been depleted of its young and elderly by the sanctions put after WW1 and maintained until Versailles signed.

  210. @Ilya G Poimandres

    Judaism is not a superior religion. That is cheap racist claim.

    The Tayna portion you quoted would take a 2 hour theology lesson to explain. Most learned Jews do not understand this. Tayna is part of the Kabbalah with is a mystical metaphysical interpretation of the Bible. It is not the Bible or the Talmud.

    Tayna is not meant to be taken literally and you are required to study with a guide, after extensive basic Jewish theology. Judaism does not claim superiority of Jews, and I have never claimed superiority to anyone on this site. Any one can convert and become a Jew.

    The bible was written in the early bronze age, where barbarous practices and deviant behavior was the norm. Child sacrifices were made to the god Baal. Think of what Alfred the great went thru with the Vikings when establishing England and the church. Marauding gangs of rape and pillage and this was way after the Bronze age and Rome.

    When Israelite nation entered Caananite and were told to destroy the Canaanite nations, there were specific reasons written down in Leviticus. God decided that these people were beyond redemption, after repeatedly trying to redeem them.

    Context is everything and the Israelites were separated out against the barbaric and were forbidden to mix with these tribes. If that is what people are referring to about superiority it is a time and place occurrence.

    With the revolution of the one god and the Mosaic laws Jews contributed to civilizing communities and families so that man could advance to the Iron age and beyond.

    Moving forward with the advancement of civilization and the Noahide laws practiced throughout the civilized world Jews were not considered elevated or superior. All Jews and non Jews are equal in the eyes of god, and non Jews will participate in the world to come. If anything Jews are required to abide by more laws and commandments then non Jews to prove their worthiness. There is no supremacy. Judaism was the seed for Christianity and Islam which came 7th center AD. Like I said context is everything. People were pretty horrible in the early bronze age.
    Below is part of Leviticus:

    “Canaanite worship was socially destructive. Its religious acts were pornographic and sick, seriously damaging to children, creating early impressions of deities with no interest in moral behavior. It tried to dignify,by the use of religious labels, depraved acts of bestiality and corruption. It had a low estimate of human life. It suggested that anything was permissible, promiscuity, murder or anything else, in order to guarantee a good crop at harvest. It ignored the highest values both in the family and in the wider community—love, loyalty, purity, peace and security—and encouraged the view that all these things were inferior to material prosperity, physical satisfaction and human pleasure. A society where those things matter most is self-destructive

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
    , @Truth3
  211. @melpol

    Corbyn organised the Apr. 1977 defence of Jewish populated Wood Green from a Neo-Nazi march
    EDM3933 7 Nov. 1990: Corbyn signs motion condemning the rise of antisemitism

    [MORE]

    EDM634, 11 Apr. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion condemning David Irving for being a Holocaust Denier
    EDM1124, 6 Nov. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn praised the ‘British Schindler’, Bill Barazetti, for his WW2 kindertransport
    EDM742, 28 Jan. 2002: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion praising football clubs for commemorating Holocaust Day
    EDM1233 30 Apr. 2002: Corbyn was a primary sponsor on a motion condemning antisemitism
    11 May 2002: Jeremy led a clean up of Finsbury Park Synagogue after an anti-Semitic attack
    EDM1691, 23 July 2002: Corbyn condemned attacks on a synagogue in Swansea
    EDM123 26 Nov. 2003: Corbyn officially condemns attacks on 2 Istanbul synagogues
    EDM298, 16 Dec. 2003: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
    2004: Jeremy condemned news that anti-Semitic hate crimes had risen for yet another year
    EDM461, 21 Jan. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the French government’s moves to ban the Jewish Kippa in French Schools
    EDM717, 26 Feb. 2004: Jeremy signed a motion praising Simon Wiesenthal for bringing Nazi perpetrators of the Holocaust to justice
    EDM1613, 8 Sept. 2004: Corbyn co-sponsored a bill expressing fears for the future of the United Synagogue Pension Scheme
    EDM1699, 11 Oct. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned arbitrary attacks on civilians in Israel and Palestine
    EDM482, 12 Jan. 2005: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
    EDM343, 16 June 2005: Jeremy condemned the desecration of a Jewish cemetery in east London
    EDM1343, 11 Jan. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
    EDM1774, 8 Mar. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn led condemnations of an Iranian Magazine soliciting cartoons about the Holocaust
    EDM1267, 16 Apr. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn condemned Bryan Ferry for anti-Semitic remarks
    EDM2414, 26 June 2006: Jeremy Corbyn praised British war veterans for their efforts to combat the Holocaust
    EDM2705, 10 Oct. 2006: Jeremy signed a motion marking the 70th anniversary of Cable Street
    EDM271, 14 Nov. 2007: Jeremy co-sponsored a motion lamenting the poverty and social exclusion East London Jews suffered
    EDM153, 12 May 2008: Corbyn praised the efforts of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto during the uprising of 1944
    EDM2350, 27 Oct 2008: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion marking the 70th anniversary of the horrors of the holocaust
    EDM173, 8 Dec. 2008: Jeremy condemned the Press Complaints Commission for refusing to sanction The Times for antisemitism
    EDM461, 14 Jan. 2009: Jeremy Corbyn condemned a wave of recent anti-Semitic incidents targeted
    EDM605, 27 Jan. 2009: Corbyn signed John Mann’s motion condemning antisemitism on university campuses
    EDM917 26 Feb. 2009: Jeremy signs a motion condemning antisemitism on the internet
    EDM1175 24 Mar. 2009: Corbyn signs a motion praising the heroism of British Jews during Holocaust
    EDM337, 2 Dec. 2009: Jeremy Condemned Iran’s treatment of Jewish minorities in Iran
    EDM850 9 Feb. 2010: Jeremy joins in calls for Facebook to do more to fight antisemitism
    EDM891: 22 Feb 2010: Corbyn co-sponsors a motion calling for Yemen’s Jews to be given refugee status to the UK
    EDM908 27 Oct. 2010: Corbyn praises work of late Israeli PM in his pursuit of a 2 state solution
    EDM1360, 27 Jan. 2011: Corbyn co-sponsored a motion praising the ‘never again for anyone initiative’
    EDM1527, 3 Mar. 2011: Corbyn backed Ian Paisley’s motion condemning the anti-Semitic remarks of Dior’s lead fashion designer
    EDM2870, 14 Mar. 2012: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the sale of Nazi memorabilia at an auction in Bristol
    EDM2866, 14 Mar 2012: Jeremy Corbyn co-sponsored a bill condemning the rise of antisemitism in Lithuania
    EDM2899, 20 Mar. 2012, Jeremy Corbyn condemned a terrorist attack on a Jewish school in Toulouse
    EDM168, 12 June 2012, Jeremy co-sponsored a motion condemning anti-Semitic attacks during EURO 2012 in Poland
    EDM 195 13 June 2012: Jeremy attacks BBC for cutting Jewish programmes from Its schedule
    EDM 1133 1 Mar 2013: Corbyn joins a chorus of calls condemning antisemitism In sport
    1 Oct. 2013: Corbyn was one of the few MPs who defended Ralph Miliband from Daily Mail antisemitism
    EDM 932 9 Jan 2014: Jeremy praises Holocaust Memorial’s work on antisemitism education
    EDM 165 22 June 2015: Jeremy condemns a Neo-Nazi rally planned for a Jewish area of London
    Sat 4 July 2015: Jeremy co-planned a counter-fascist demo in defence of Jewish residents at Golders Green. The march was re-routed
    18 Nov. 2015, Corbyn used one of his first PMQs to challenge Cameron to do more on antisemitism
    9 Oct 2016: Corbyn, close to tears, leads commemoration of the Battle of Cable Street
    3 Dec. 2016: Corbyn visits Terezin Concentration Camp to commemorate Holocaust victims
    In 2017-19 Jeremy introduced 20 new measures to combat antisemitism in the Labour Party

  212. @Fran Taubman

    Judaism is not a superior religion. That is cheap racist claim.

    You can have superior faiths – ones that are more verifiable. Racism is using a statistic to colour an individual or using an individual to create a statistic, this is just analysis – the creating of a dimension, a concept: quality of religion/faith.

    You could have a religion where you convince people into finally drinking poison – that’s pretty inferior. Idolaters aren’t liked either.. objectifiers I call them.

    The Tayna portion you quoted would take a 2 hour theology lesson to explain.

    Putting the knowledge out of reach. And if you explained and I still disagreed reasonably, it would be taken away again, or put with the metaphysical – beyond the reach of observation anyways!

    and I have never claimed superiority to anyone on this site

    I don’t point fingers at people but ideas. If you look at the ideology (how it looks at the other) of Judaism – from the early bronze age madhouse, to 1797 when Tanya was published according to Wikipedia (and Rebbe said those things too anyways), it is very negative in the plain meaning of the texts. And, chosenness – a metaphysical determination as easily changed as the historical limitation on a Jewish state!

    Now if you are saying this is something esoteric or mystic – obfuscation. I like the physics judge of parsimony, plain meaning is enough for me thank you!

    God decided

    This is “putting into the metaphysical” – removing history, or reasoning away from whatever is happening. Plato’s Parmenides is much more square on this – One does not do decisions, nor even knowledge of this plane of Many. If the one dimensionality of Absolutes are applied, his description is very nice for nibbana imo.

    it is a time and place occurrence.

    I agree, and even individual. But I rather believe that having such a written ideology, often repeated, the prevalence in the population that took the plain meaning to heart would be quite substantial through space-time (there’s me pointing fingers!).

  213. (and Rebbe said those things too anyways), it is very negative in the plain meaning of the texts. And, chosenness – a metaphysical determination as easily changed as the historical limitation on a Jewish state!

    The Rebbe went to jail for saying that. Look I have had scream sessions with Rabbis about this who tell me it is not what it sounds like. I agree with you but the essence of all else in Judaism is not meant for Jews to be superior. I can tell you what I have been told but I just cannot get into it on this site. It is twisted.

    Every religion has squeamish stuff like you are going to hell if you do not accept Christ as your savior.

    What is in the Kabbalah has nothing to do with the Canaanite adventure. Look many gory things went on all over the world at that time (the bronze age) I pointed to Alfred the great. It was a brutal time to tame humans for advancement.

    The Jews have contributed mightily to the advancement of civilization. From the one god concept (revolutionary really) to the ten commandments and the Mosaic laws. They were firsts except for the Hammurabi code which was before Mosses.

    Israel being a Jewish state has nothing to do with the metaphysical or the Rebbe and everything to do with the countries surrounding them which are off limits to Jews. It is a tiny place. There is freedom more freedom there then the countries around it.

  214. bluedog says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Does that include slavery too after all in the early days the wealthy clans in the New England states made their wealth off from the slave and drug operations, while in the South it was mostly the slave trade.

    Now they make it off from the wars they create,cheap labor from immigrants and a system created just for them , hell capitalism is a twin sister to communism in the poverty it creates,the U.S. is becoming a shinning example of that, as more and more of its people are street dwellers and a few million more knocking on the door, shouting move over and let us in, and that’s not going to change as long as parasitic capitalism exisit.!!!

  215. bluedog says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Hmm if you want to know about Schumer check into his relationship with the Mohawks Indian Nation his running of cigerattes and weapons thru the Mohawk Nation, run out of N.Y.C. up into Quebec.They weren’t meeting those Russian trawlers out in the middle of the St. Lawernce river for nothing.!!

  216. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The facts of the survey were disputed and corrected by

    Corrected by the Jewish Committee? ….rotflmao
    Jews are the world’s consummate liars.

    And the Rohr Jewish Learning Institute is just another Jew propaganda outlet.
    It is an initiative of Chabad that offers adult Jewish courses on Jewish history, law, ethics, philosophy and rabbinical literature worldwide. It also develops Jewish studies curricula for women, college students, teenagers, and seniors. Its principal benefactor is George Rohr and its chairman is Rabbi Moshe Kotlarsky

    George Rohr is self styled monk from new Mexico and mystic who started a center for religious mysticism …the Chabad paid a fee to have the Jewish Learning Institute included in his center
    Rohr is similar to the other ‘god merchants ‘ selling god on tee vee….he makes a lot of money from those attracted to myths and mysticism.

    IOW dumbo,,,it is not a creditable source for real history of any kind.

  217. renfro says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Or maybe no where in America if you are not interested in the protection of your fellow citizens because they are Zionist.

    Zionist aren’t our fellow citizens…they are treasonous subversives.
    I don’t think Jews like you are suited to democracy, I think your kind, Zionist, are bad for this country.
    I am willing to bet a good sum that right now 30% of Americans have negative views of Jews and their manipulating our government for their Israel loyalt. 30% of America vr.02 % of Jews in America are not good odds for you.
    Therefore I don’t think it will Americans that will be leaving.
    I might mention that 1.2 billion Arabs/Muslims vr. 9 million Jews in Israel is also not good odds for you.
    I also wouldn’t count on the US government always protecting you….we elected the psycho orange blob the next psycho could be a Hitler……’for ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction.’

    Why dont you go take your chances in Israel instead of staying here and fighting us anti-semites.

    How to retire to Israel

    https://www.jta.org/2020/01/22/israel/how-to-retire-to-israel

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  218. @Fran Taubman

    /But I guess you missed my points./

    Not at all.

    Remember, that I began our dialogue by posing a question to you, one from which you demonstrably deflected. Now you’re reduced to the same old, tired accusations of “racism” because you’ve got nothing else in your bag of tricks with which to work.

    There’s no need to reargue this. Schumer exploited the crime of someone diagnosed with schizophrenia to extract from the government more money for the prosecution of hate crimes.

    First of all, contrary to what you imagine, it does matter whether or not the perpetrator is certifiably mentally-ill and anyone familiar with the law knows this. If he’s not a rational actor, his crime shouldn’t be lumped together with other “hate crimes.” This makes Schumer’s exploitation all the worse.

    Second, and more importantly, “hate crime” legislation is a decidedly liberal innovation, one which may be well-intended, but ultimately corrosive to the principle of equality in the eyes of the law. What’s more, such legislation has served as a springboard for criminalizing “hate speech,” which constitutes a flagrant assault on the First Amendment.

    Read Eric Striker’s recent front page piece, “Inside the War to Take Away Our Free Speech” for further details. In the discussion thread that follows, your fellow traveler A123 claimed that “Florida is fighting back for Free Speech rights,” and I summarily disabused him of that notion:

    https://www.unz.com/estriker/inside-the-war-to-take-away-our-free-speech/#comment-3675347

    In Florida, expressing the truth that Jews enjoy outsized control of the media and government is now a prosecutable “hate crime.” If you’re on board with this kind of tyranny, you’re certainly no friend of America.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  219. Kim says:
    @Fran Taubman

    If a White Senator representing a largely White district or state acted or spoke similarly in support or protection of, specifically, Whites, would you be making the same arguments?

    Of course you wouldn’t. Because a White Senator protecting White interest would be raaaaycist.

    We can see straight through you, jew.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Colin Wright
  220. geokat62 says:
    @Kim

    Of course you wouldn’t. Because a White Senator protecting White interest would be raaaaycist.

    But, but, but Fran has assured us that we are all equal, we are all God’s children, there is no supremacy in the Judaic religion. Goy and Jew are on equal footing. Just read the Talmud, if you don’t believe me. It’s all in there.

    Oh, and pay no heed about the verse that states that:

    When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves.

    — Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D

    http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2015/08/when_the_messiah_comes_every_jew_will_have_2800_sl.html

    … this is simply something that clearly hasn’t been properly contextualized, goy. I’ll let Fran do us that honour.

    Oh, Franny… yoo hoo!

    • LOL: Fran Taubman
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  221. @Kim

    ‘If a White Senator representing a largely White district or state acted or spoke similarly in support or protection of, specifically, Whites, would you be making the same arguments?

    Of course you wouldn’t. Because a White Senator protecting White interest would be raaaaycist.’

    It doesn’t exactly help that Schumer’s district isn’t ‘largely Jewish’ in the first place.

    He represents New York State. Only 7% 0f New York’s population identifies as Jewish.

  222. @AnonStarter

    Second, and more importantly, “hate crime” legislation is a decidedly liberal innovation, one which may be well-intended, but ultimately corrosive to the principle of equality in the eyes of the law.

    Why are you so against hate crime legislation? What in your mind is corrosive to the principle of equality?
    I am not familiar with the law. I googled and could find nothing about mentally ill being disqualified for a hate crime. I would assume it is like any criminal court using insanity as a plea, which almost never works.

    Schumer exploited the crime of someone diagnosed with schizophrenia to extract from the government more money for the prosecution of hate crimes.

    I disagree with your characteristic of exploitation of government money. What is wrong with getting money to help people to defend themselves? If mosques are being attacked wouldn’t you want funds to protect the people going there to pray?

    Remember, that I began our dialogue by posing a question to you, one from which you demonstrably deflected. Now you’re reduced to the same old, tired accusations of “racism” because you’ve got nothing else in your bag of tricks with which to work.

    I never deflected your question. I answered it as universally and sincerely as I could and you seem hell bent on calling out Zionist for exploiting hate crime legislation. Calling out Jews in America as Zionist trying to exploit the government is to me racist. Zionist is not an American category of people. You seem deliberately trying to malign Jews to fit a narrative that you have.

    I explained to you the trap that I had gotten into while responding to many different accusations.
    Yet you seem really focused not on a legitimate discussion but on name calling and mischaracterizing my comments towards a hateful exchange. You are interested in beating me down.
    I do not see what you are after. A discussion or beat down of an enemy Zionist?
    I have not engaged you in that way.
    This exchange is getting nowhere and I find you very disingenuous. You have an agenda. So lets just move on and call it quits.

    • Agree: AaronB
  223. @geokat62

    Geo we disagree but I am sort of fond of you. It has been a long day at UR and work.
    But you clearly did not read your own post which totally refutes the claim.
    It is a totally bogus lie not from the Talmud.
    From your post.

    I have previously debunked a number of Talmudic fake quotes that purport to show that Jews view non-Jews as animals or sub-humans in a series of articles here.

    In response to my article Muslims Did Not Invent Algebra, reader Jo Syphus left this comment:

    of course and when “The Messiah” arrives every Jew will get 2800 slaves. See Vilnius Talmud. This is something worth waiting for. Here and now, none of this heaven/hell business[.]

    The Vilnius printing of the Talmud does not contain any reference to such a thing. Usually the reference quoted is found on neo-Nazi and antisemitic sites in this manner:

    Here is what Jews really think of non-Jews in the Talmud:

    When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves.

    — Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D

    This is a complete fabrication. There is no tractate called Simeon Haddarsen in the Talmud and consequently there is no fol. 56-D, that was only added to make it look authentic to lazy web-surfers. There was a Simeon Haddarsen who commented on the Bible 700 years after the Talmud was written, but he as well wrote nothing about the Talmud or slaves and Jews.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  224. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Why are you so against hate crime legislation? What in your mind is corrosive to the principle of equality?’

    What does ‘hate crime’ legislation have to do with equality?

    If anything, ‘hate crime’ legislation is all about inequality. It suggests that if I punch a in the nose, it might somehow be a more heinous offense than if I punch b in the nose.

    • Agree: Wielgus, AnonStarter
  225. @Fran Taubman

    /Why are you so against hate crime legislation?/

    Explained in the previous reply: it’s a springboard to criminalizing even true observations as “hate speech.”

    /I would assume it is like any criminal court using insanity as a plea, which almost never works./

    You’re confusing a plea of “not guilty by reason of insanity” with the mitigating circumstance of mental illness. Two separate things. In any event, this doesn’t change the fact of Schumer’s exploitative maneuver.

    /If mosques are being attacked wouldn’t you want funds to protect the people going there to pray?/

    I want the Muslims to take care of it themselves, without any government assistance. At high-profile NAIT mosques in densely populated cities, there are enough doctors, lawyers, and engineers making enough money where that shouldn’t be a problem. What these mosques really need, however, is some hardcore, heat-packing brothers ready to respond at a moment’s notice. That doesn’t necessarily require money. It requires dedication.

    I highly doubt the predominantly black inner-city mosques will be targeted.

    /I never deflected your question./

    Yes, you did.

    Here’s a verbatim transcript of the exchange:

    Fran: … in fact the crimes were committed by schizophrenic lunatics …

    AS: Oh, okay.

    So now that we’ve cleared that up, we shouldn’t expect to see those offenses added to the list of “anti-Semitic hate crimes.” After all, their perpetrators were acting irrationally, as mentally ill people, rather than as individuals with a rational animus toward Jews.

    Good to know that zionists aren’t interested in exploiting such occasions to further advance “hate crime” legislation, isn’t it?

    Fran: Totally it happened to a church in Texas. It is violence against Christians and Jews and Whites and Blacks. But does not make you feel more safe if you are Jewish. We are currently spending money for 2 armed security guards at our Synagogue, one inside and one outside.

    This is textbook deflection. Rather than address my question about the Monsey attack (or any attack involving a schizophrenic perpetrator), you sidestepped the subject and talked about different attacks against non-Jews.

    /you seem hell bent on calling out Zionist for exploiting hate crime legislation/

    Nope. I’m just describing what they’re doing and have provided enough information to prove it.

    /Calling out Jews in America as Zionist trying to exploit the government is to me racist./

    Well, you see, Fran … You’re getting sloppy. I never “called out Jews.” Rather, I was quite careful from the onset to use the term “zionist,” as I have always done.

    /Zionist is not an American category of people./

    And yet there are quite a few zionists in America. Go figure.

    /You seem deliberately trying to malign Jews to fit a narrative that you have./

    You seem paranoid.

    /Yet you seem really focused not on a legitimate discussion but on name calling and mischaracterizing my comments towards a hateful exchange./

    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    You deflected, then became upset when I drew attention to your deflection, calling me a racist and a practitioner of “taqiyyah” and such. Only afterward did I describe you as less-than-intelligent for so doing. You can’t complain about name-calling when you level such accusations, Fran.

    As for “mischaracterizing comments,” that’s your habit here. If I were to point out each and every instance in which you’ve done so, it would take far too much time.

    /You are interested in beating me down./

    No, but I can understand why you feel this way when you can’t control the discussion as you please. You’re being lachrymose now because you don’t really have a means by which to directly address my original question. Your entire diatribe is an exercise in discursive diversion.

    /I have not engaged you in that way./

    You haven’t really engaged me at all. You repeatedly distort what I’ve written or introduce something I never said.

    /This exchange is getting nowhere and I find you very disingenuous./

    LOL!

    /You have an agenda./

    We all do. You just pretend not to.

    /So lets just move on and call it quits./

    Very well.

  226. @Fran Taubman

    the one god concept (revolutionary really)

    Evolutionary imo, the pagan religions all had a metadivine substance like fate for the Greeks, that was the thing the gods could tap into a bit more than humans. Tao is the reified version of Dhamma, since Tao is empty and can be tapped into by quiet sitting. Brahman is ‘not this, not that’. Judaism just made the metadivine into some thing with a mind.

    Every religion

    If we consider Judaism, Christianity, and Islam alone. The rest of the world is pretty diverse in its beliefs (and many have the notion of All or Unity).

    Israel being a Jewish state has nothing to do with the metaphysical or the Rebbe and everything to do with the countries surrounding them which are off limits to Jews. It is a tiny place. There is freedom more freedom there then the countries around it.

    Maybe so, but Israel would be freer if it learnt to condescend – maybe publicly declare their nuclear weapons, join the NPT or something of the sort, better yet – create an honestly defensive posture for the military and stick to it.. honestly, if all the other nations flicker away – wait it out, you’ll get your Yinon plan over generational time through others tripping over themselves anyways!

    But this is neither the practice, nor the plain text of the nation. And when you get something like https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-reported-to-say-legal-system-based-on-talmud/, with all of the personal – not generals going cray cray, but individual soldier – war crimes, what else but the plain text would you expect a reasonable person to expect? Actions speak louder than “words which are expected to be interpreted at a level so obfuscated, sometimes the opposite of the plain text could be implied”.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  227. The one God concept? What is so wrong with polytheism? Didn’t monotheism develop as a means of control ? As states developed , monarchs and religious leaders found it easier to control their flocks if there was just one God , rather than competing Gods. See : “How did monotheism develop? ” dailyhistory.org ” …we find that the rise of monotheism has been influenced by key POLITICAL events”.

    • Thanks: Kali
  228. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Geo we disagree but I am sort of fond of you.

    Shucks, Fran… you’re making me blush!

    The Vilnius printing of the Talmud does not contain any reference to such a thing. Usually the reference quoted is found on neo-Nazi and antisemitic sites in this manner:

    That’s odd, Fran. What are the chances that these students of the Talmud being interviewed by an American Jew would provide the following responses to a few innocent queries put to them:

    Religious Jews are asked about the Talmud:

    starting @ 16:38

    The non-Jews are… God made them so they will… So they will serve the Jews. All the non-Jews that you see all around the world, the billions, they exist just for the Jew’s benefit… When the messiah will come each one of us will have… 2,800 slaves.

    I guess these Orthodox Jews must have gotten their erroneous facts from a Vilnius printing of the Talmud posted on neo-Nazi and antisemitic sites, huh, Fran?

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  229. @geokat62

    No idea what you are talking about saw noting with slaves.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  230. Anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:

    The US has just said it won’t extradite that Sacoolas woman, despite the fact she didn’t have diplomatic immunity. Brexiteers are about to learn where they really stand with the US and just how much diplomatic clout they really have, which is virtually zero.

    • Agree: Miro23
    • Replies: @Nonny Mouse
  231. @Fran Taubman

    Jewish organisations are “coining it in” in the UK too:

    Government to increase spending for Jewish community security (from £600,000) to £14 million

    https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/government-to-increase-spending-for-jewish-community-security-to-14-million/

    • Replies: @nonalignedgoy
  232. @OilcanFloyd

    Maybe the problem with the Labour party is that there aren’t really any laborers to speak of in the UK anymore. Maybe the party had to cast about for another constituency to represent and were only able to come up with the jews.

    Of course, like you, I don’t really know diddly about UK politics, so…..

  233. @Ilya G Poimandres

    I am sure this is excellent theology. But I have no clue what you are talking about. There is no Yinon plan. It is a fake plan a scam. Google it. If you are interested I have a rabbinical response to your ALte Rabbi Schneerson evil soul theology.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  234. barr says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Remove the colonization of 3 rd world from the equation and see if the capitalism could have achieved anything of substantial degree. Still it is the capitalism that is normal.

    Greed is normal Society ‘s control of greed is normal also . Nepotism is normal .Society’s punishment for nepotism or crony capitalism is also normal

    Capitalism under the gun or gun boat is abnormal.

    Nowadays socialism is practiced by the vultures from the capitalist sect . Tax break, bailout of banks, no bid contract by top echelon, giving millions in bonuses to those who destroy the company or bankrupt the company, reneging on deals when bankruptcy or manufactured bankruptcy hit the roof of the factory, polluting environment and robbing people who depend on environment for living, waging wars for economy but blaming socialism or poverty or religion , forcing other countries to follow certain rules that give overwhelming advantage to the powerful country, Middle class who has abhorrence for socialism also forget the capitalism when disasters happen and ask for bailout from government to face the effects of natural disasters

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  235. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    No idea what you are talking about saw noting with slaves.

    You must have somehow missed this, Fran… or maybe it was simply lost in the translation, lol!

    Talmud

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  236. @Fran Taubman

    Maybe that plan is, but Israel has had and has an expansionary military practice, so something along those lines!

    If you are interested

    Always interested to know!

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  237. @geokat62

    I saw the 2800 I can find nothing to support it by anyone. There are crazy sentences taken out of context. Why this guy is talking like this is so stupid, the guy being interviewed at the end explains more about what is said in the Talmud and how to interpret it. Listen to what he says.
    If you are worried about slavery. Look at the African slave market in downtown Tripoli, a very busy place.
    You can pick crazy stuff out of any religious text and make a meal out of it. No one believes that.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Colin Wright
    , @barr
  238. @Ilya G Poimandres

    http://www.olamhaemet.com/2009/05/chabad-theology-conversations-with-rtzvi-freeman-on-tanya-part-i/

    It is a letter to a Rabbi about the passage and the Rabbi’s response.
    Let me know what you think.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  239. @barr

    While I have you here I got to research your comment on the land acquisition of the Palestinians and Jews refuting the claim that the Jews made the dessert bloom.

    The document that information came from is called The 1946 surgery of Palestine prepared by the government of Palestine for the Anglo-American Inquiry Committee.

    There are areas where everyone agrees on and areas of contention. The actual Land masses owned area pretty similar from the Jewish documents to the Palestinian documents.

    The contention is about the Negev Dessert which constitutes 70% of Israel. In 1946 the land was not farmed except for small farming by Beduoins on hilly sections with picks. The had no land title.
    But because they were farming it the Arabs claimed ownership of the Negev which if included made 95% of Israel owned Arab owned.

    I am no goin to get into the dispute you can look it up and read about it. It is very easy to see in the maps. The land was not able to be farmed and was eroded at that time.
    I remember as a kid in the 1950’s we used to give to a fund for land reclamation in the Negev Dessert. I had stickers of Cypress tress on my wall for my donation. So the Negev was talked about and discussed.

    This is just an FYI comment. The info was taken from Palestinian documentation not Jewish.

  240. Art says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Oh Frannie’ – you torture us with your whining text.

    But here is a small sample of Jew torture in Palestine.

    (We all know, that you would do the same to us, if you could.)

    Rights group details Israel’s recent torture of Palestinian detainees

    …. …. ….

    Palestinian prisoners can be interrogated for up to 75 days without being charged, and also prevented from seeing a lawyer for up to 60 days.
    According to the report, “the torture methods used against those detainees resulted in visible marks, and bruises on their bodies”, while several
    [detainees] were not able to walk or even move due to the harsh beatings and stress positions they were subjected to.
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20200124-rights-group-details-israels-recent-torture-of-palestinian-detainees/

    You Jews are the victimizers – NOT the victims.

    Think Peace — Do No Harm

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  241. @Anonymous

    Surely their response must be to refuse to extradite Julian Assange!!! … ?

  242. @Art

    Now, now, Art … There you go again with your “hate speech.”

    Let’s have some more, shall we?

    Ottoman Palestine records present obstacle for Israeli land grab policies

    Zionist hardliners worry that by handing over historic records, Turkey will help Palestinians protect themselves from land appropriation by Israeli authorities.

    Turkey’s decision to hand over Ottoman records to the Palestinian Authority has become the source of severe consternation among Israeli extremists.

    An editorial published in early January by newspaper Israel Hayom expressed anger over Ankara’s handover of the documents to Palestinian officials.

    For 400 years between the sixteenth and twentieth centuries, the area of historic Palestine and modern-day Israel were ruled by Ottoman Turkish Sultans, who kept meticulous records including land registries and property ownership documents.

    The existence of these documents is important, as the lack of substantive proof of ownership among Palestinians is often used by the Israelis as a pretext to seize land in occupied territories, such as East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

    Having the documents in Palestinian hands means there is a definitive legal basis to challenge Israeli appropriation of land and property.

    Israel? Angry?

    Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  243. @Fran Taubman

    Fran and Ilya, the exchange between you two has been interesting. Fran, you’ve even started to sound like a human being rather than a devil occasionally!

    But let me chip in on the monotheism point. The Mosaic religion was NOT monotheistic! Yah only makes the point (Decalogue) that he is JEALOUS of other gods!

    And in Numbers he whacks the Israelites who begin the worship the baal of the Moabites. (Or another tribe. Can’t look it up here.) So that tribe’s religion was monotheistic. Only one baal. But the religion of the Israelites was not!

    Shlomo Sand makes the point (from memory) that the Jews learnt monotheism from the Iranians near the end of the Babylon Exile and most of the Bible was then re-written.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  244. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I saw the 2800 [slaves] I can find nothing to support it by anyone.

    Oh, you saw it. Then why did you write this in your previous post:

    No idea what you are talking about [I] saw nothing with slaves.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  245. Truth3 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    When Israelite nation entered Caananite and were told to destroy the Canaanite nations, there were specific reasons written down in Leviticus. God decided that these people were beyond redemption, after repeatedly trying to redeem them.

    No… Jewish writers justified mass murder by blaming God for the decision. And you POS Jews have done the same thing for centuries, nay, millenia.

    Are you hypocrites in for a big surprise.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  246. @Nonny Mouse

    Fran and Ilya, the exchange between you two has been interesting. Fran, you’ve even started to sound like a human being rather than a devil occasionally!

    Thanks hard for me to see myself as the devil have you seen what comes at me? My agenda on this site is to beat back the dehumanizing of Jews and dispel as many lies and propaganda about Jews, Zionism and Israel that has taken place since the advent of the internet, and on UR, as well as providing my own real time experiences as truth. I present myself as I am, how I have been raised as a religious Jew in the 1950’s with half a family of survivors. I am not on a crusade other then to present the truth. Yet if people could tear me a part and throw my insides against the wall they would, that is how much the people on this site hate Jews. Mind boggling. No victimization just mind boggling. Like Art just suggesting that if I could torture Palestinians I would, he as called me evil many times.

    Shlomo Sand is not a good source he is the one who promoted the phony Khazar story which has been debunked. I have not read anything about the Hebrews borrowing the monotheist from Iran.
    I could look it up. Possible.

    The Abraham story where he went up to sacrifice Issac (or Ishmael) his son imitating the child sacrifice practices of Baal and Yahweh tells Abraham to sacrifice the ram instead, and is pretty definitive that he is the one and only.

    But monotheist is only part of what the early hebrews brought to the story, it is the description and understanding of the nature of god as a divine being. God is not a statue or a physical being. The bronze age Hebrews introduced the idea that god is not knowable or describable in our physical universe by our existing sensory ability. God as a divine being takes up no dimensions in time and space, and is not temporal. This description of the divine being was revolutionary especially during the bronze age.
    It allowed for a mystical approach to the divine and changed the world.

  247. @geokat62

    Sorry I did not see it the first time around. I have since tried to find more about it. I have been thru every Talmudic text I can find no corroborating source or verification of that 2800 slabes, and it sounds nuts. Judaism is not a nuts. Who would need or want 2800 slaves and what does that remotely have to do with anything else in the bible or the Talmud. It fits no known story.

    Maybe this guy is nuts. He sure sounds it. No one believes that stuff. If you want to hang your Jew hatred on that nut job knock yourself out.

    Ilya posted a famous talmudic quote about Jewish souls vs. non Jewish souls. I did consult with a rabbinical scholar. You can look link on my post to her.

    Judaism changes thru time it is not static. The Lubavitch Rabbi Scheerson ( who is the grandson of the Schneerson who wrote Tayna) radically changed the roles of Jews from being insular to outreach towards non Jews. He believed that non Jews should study Torah and share in the story. That is why you see the current popularity of the Kabbalah outside of Judaism.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @RadicalCenter
  248. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I have since tried to find more about it. I have been thru every Talmudic text I can find no corroborating source or verification of that 2800 slabes…

    Have you tried looking in the Babylonian Talmud Mas. Shabbath 32b

    http://www.halakhah.com/shabbath/shabbath_32.html

    Talmud

  249. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… If you are worried about slavery. Look at the African slave market in downtown Tripoli, a very busy place…’

    Ah. Well if Israel is more moral than Libya, that casts a different light on the matter.

  250. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… Shlomo Sand is not a good source he is the one who promoted the phony Khazar story which has been debunked…’

    To begin with, Sand does not advocate the Khazar theory.

    I’ve pointed this out to you before, too.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  251. It’s like talking to a fucking dog.

    • LOL: geokat62
  252. @geokat62

    It still makes no sense with the fringes and it sounds like a parable. And no one responded to my inquiry on it.
    But if you are interested in having slaves you should convert. Maybe a convert gets more slaves like maybe 3000.
    I am sorry I cannot take this seriously.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  253. @Colin Wright

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invention_of_the_Jewish_People
    You should take your constant suggestion up of pressing the ignore button.

  254. geokat62 says:
    @Fran Taubman

    I am sorry I cannot take this seriously.

    Translation: Enough, goy. You’re starting to annoy me!

  255. Honestly, Fran. You can’t even read the Wikipedia page you yourself reference. I quote:

    ‘… He [Sand] accounts for the appearance of millions of Jews around the Mediterranean and elsewhere as something that came about primarily through the religious conversion of local people, saying that Judaism, contrary to popular opinion, was very much a “converting religion” in former times…’

  256. @geokat62

    ‘… I have been thru every Talmudic text…’

    That strikes me as improbable.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  257. @Colin Wright

    Woof woof

    Some readers here might be familiar with the writings of the Israeli academic, Shlomo Sand, writer of the book “The Invention of the Jewish People”. The Khazar thesis is crucial to his view that modern day Jews are not descended from ancient Israelites and the presence of many blonde, blue-eyed people amongst the Ashkenazim is frequently referred to in the discussions of his theories (16).

    On the far-right, Professor Shlomo Sand is definitely the favouritest Jew ever (Source: Times of Israel).
    Professor Sand tries to get around the difficulties posed by the descriptions of the above Arabic travel writers by proposing that Judaism gradually “trickled down” over a period of 200 to 400 years from the aristocracy (5). Correctly, he points out how in the 8th, 9th and 10th centuries, many parts of the European peasantry had yet to embrace Christianity. However, over the period of many generations, under the impetus of a ruling hierarchy (or a series of changing rulers) that was/were all Christian, Christianity did finally become embedded in all parts of European society. Hence, it would be reasonable to propose a similar process occurring with Judaism in the Khazarian kingdom if time allowed.

  258. Wielgus says:
    @AnonStarter

    Like outright seizing stuff without a legal basis would be beyond Israelis. Ottoman records? The Israelis would just seize a field after saying Elijah took a leak there.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  259. @Colin Wright

    There are very powerful surviving records of that. A cosmopolitan Greek-speaking world post-Alexander, safe travel, Jesus denouncing the Pharisaic proto-Talmudic rabbis rushing all over it proselytizing like mad, expulsions of the Jews from Rome several times half a century apart for just that, 2nd C. quote of Josephus describing the enormous numbers of Jews all over that world, the Hebrew Sibyl 300 years before that writing the same thing, the mere existence of the Septuagint 2nd century BC …

    But there is so much outrageous lying from certain quarters today that it was admirable and courageous of Bernie to speak the truth.

    The lesson: there is NO Diaspora. The Jews were never dispersed, but have their origins all over that world. It should be enough to notice that they themselves called all European Jews the descendants of Japheth’s grandson Ashkenaz. Not Semites, Japhethites.

  260. She’s conflating it with Koestler’s work.

    Probably another “mistake.”

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Lone Wolf
  261. Wielgus says:
    @Nonny Mouse

    The Septuagint has always interested me. Because of Alexander the Great, Greek was very widespread, from the Mediterranean to north India, but even before that there were significant colonies of Greek speakers all over the Mediterranean. At the same time, Aramaic was quite common in much of what is now the Middle East and was almost certainly the native spoken language of most Palestinian Jews. Yet it is clear there were large numbers of Jews or converts for whom not only Hebrew but even Aramaic were inaccessible, making the Septuagint necessary.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  262. @Colin Wright

    Sand used the Kahzar theory politically to delegitimize Israel as a Jewish state.
    The 13th Tribe by Koestler was written for different reasons at a different time. It is Sand who popularized it for todays antisemites in his book The invention of the Jewish people.
    Who originated the idea is not important in this context.

    As always you never contribute anything to the ordinal topic of the post or subsequent discussions. You are just like the “spell check” dude.
    So much easier to call me a “barking” dog then attempt your own original ideas open for critique.
    Only on UR can someone feel manly for being abusive to someone.
    Are you feeling manly following me around telling me how dumb you think I am? Correcting me hurling insult after insult. You are way to emotionally invested in me and my comments. Rather like an obsession. Even Ron noticed it. It is such a waste of everyone’s time. Why is that?
    Why not just move on? Read a book. Go fishing walk the dog. Whatever. You have noting really to say. Critiquing me is chump change.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  263. @Colin Wright

    Oops. He [Sand]. I read it as he [Sanders]. Hadn’t followed the thread. If my praise of Bernie in that context looked stupid … it was.

  264. @Nonny Mouse

    Thanks for clearing it all up. I had so many questions and poof they are all gone.
    Now I know my lineage. No diaspora. Problem solved.
    Have you thought about a book?

    • Replies: @Nonny Mouse
  265. CBTerry says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The perception that insanity pleas seldom work may be an artefact of cases involving mental illness seldom being brought to trial. I have been peripherally involved in several cases where the prosecutor decides not to prosecute the case criminally but instead puts the case into the mental health system, with the accused spending time in the state hospital and then being followed by community mental health agencies. If the NGRI terms are violated (e.g., refusing to follow the community health agency’s recommendations) the person gets sent back to the state hospital, not prison.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  266. geokat62 says:
    @Colin Wright

    That strikes me as improbable.

    Fran, lie? I’m shocked, shocked, I tell you! (doesn’t the Talmud permit lying to goys?)

    First, she claims a certain printing of the Talmud does not contain any reference to 2800 slaves.

    Then, when I produce the proper source for the quote, she responds that it “still makes no sense … and it sounds like a parable.”

    As a Hellenic idiom goes, “good luck trying to find a corner with her”

    Translation: The exercise is as fruitful as trying to find a corner in a round room.

  267. @CBTerry

    How does the insanity defense work against mass murder? All mass murderers and serial killers are insane. Jeffery Dahlmer and George Bundy were insane. Yet they were punished in the criminal
    system. The insanity plea has only worked in the one movie theater murder. (Can’t remember his name)

    The worst mass murders in the US are committed by minors killing children in school shootings. Most of those have ended in suicide or they have been killed on the spot but all of those violent children were mentally ill.

    The mental state of mass murders should not be a requisite for receiving federal funding for at risk groups. Federal funds should be made available for metal detectors and additional security guards when local governments do not have funds.

    Religious institutions and other public spaces where the public can walk in and there are no locked doors are at risk. You cannot enter government buildings without screening. Religious institutions have no locked doors like the large catholic cathedrals in major cities. Or churches synagogue or mosques during prayer time.

    Federal funds for religious institutions experiencing repeated violence should receive federal funds regardless of the sanity of those committing the violence, it does not make the crime less deadly or less likely to occur.

  268. Lone Wolf says:
    @AnonStarter

    Hello, AnonStarter, Lone Wolf here.

    I sent you an invite at the place we met, toward the end of the comments section, FYI, in case you haven’t seen it. Hope you’re well.

    Lone Wolf

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  269. CBTerry says:

    The movie theater case you are probably thinking of is James Holmes. In fact he was found guilty, although he was spared the death penalty.

    The other people you are referring to are Jeffrey Dahmer and Theodore “Ted” Bundy.

    The insanity defense does not work any differently if the defendant killed one person or many.

    Insanity is a legal doctrine and what constitutes insanity can vary at the state level. It is a complex and fascinating topic that I have briefly taught in the past but which, with all due respect, is much greater than I care to get into here.

  270. @Fran Taubman

    ‘Sand used the Kahzar theory politically to delegitimize Israel as a Jewish state.

    The 13th Tribe by Koestler was written for different reasons at a different time. It is Sand who popularized it for todays antisemites in his book The invention of the Jewish people….

    You could read Sand’s book.

    You might as well assert that Elie Weisel plagiarized Mein Kampf .

    Sand’s books are sitting right here on my bookshelf — and your statements simply don’t relate to their contents. He discusses the Khazars — as one of a number of peoples among whom Judaism found converts. He does not trace the origin of the Ashkenazi Jews to their kingdom.

    As he quite conclusively demonstrates, the Jews of Europe were descended from the converts Judaism made among the inhabitants of the Roman Empire — not the Khazars.

    If you want to theorize you’re descended from the Khazars, go for it — but don’t attribute the theory to Sand.

  271. @Nonny Mouse

    ‘… The lesson: there is NO Diaspora. The Jews were never dispersed, but have their origins all over that world…’

    Well of course not. Netanyahu’s ancestors are from Poland — and he looks remarkably similar to several recent Polish gentile politicians. That Yemeni Jewish killer who was released after two months or something to considerable acclaim looks like nothing so much a gentile Yemeni.

    When Yishai, the Israeli Minister of the Interior of Tunisian Jewish extraction, announced that ‘Israel is for the white man’ — by which he meant it wasn’t for Arabs — I got inspired.

    I started looking through images of Gentile Tunisians.

    Sure enough — I found Yishai’s long-lost gentile twin brother.

    Jews are obviously most closely related to the various gentile peoples among whom Judaism found converts at some point. German Jews look like Germans, Yemeni Jews look like Yemenis, and presumably Iraqi Jews look like Iraqis.

    It’s all only baffling if you insist on fantasizing that Jews are primarily descended from the inhabitants of Ancient Palestine.

    Nah. Those folks are another group. They’re called ‘Palestinians.’

    • Agree: Nonny Mouse
  272. @Lone Wolf

    Thank you, LW.

    I’ll check it out. Please feel free to notify me of other blogs as well.

  273. @Fran Taubman

    And once again, Fran speaks to only half of the problem, the other half being the prosecution of mentally ill individuals for “hate crimes.”

    Hate crime legislation has become a pretext for criminalizing “hate speech,” as is the case in Florida. And yes, the fact that zionists are the primary advocates of it makes a significant difference. In Florida, speech that falls under the new rubric of determining “anti-Semitism” includes even legitimate, factual statements. This makes such a law akin to European legislation criminalizing skepticism of the historical narrative of Jewish suffering during World War II.

    At least Aaron has enough sense not to defend it …

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  274. @Wielgus

    I hear you, though the mere existence of these documents is better than nothing. They’ve actually managed to reclaim one million dunams and another two million are in the works:

    Ottoman archives help Palestinians reclaim their land

    Assaf said during a Jan. 5 press conference in Ramallah that the commission’s lawyers reclaimed 6,000 dunams (1,483 acres) in 2019. He also pointed out that another 40,000 dunams (9,884 acres) had been reclaimed since 2015 by proving that they were acquired through fraud. …

    Shakarna noted, “Ever since we started the project of land [Tapu] registration in 2016, we have settled the situation of 1 million dunams and registered them completely under the names of their owners in official records. Around 2 million dunams are also in the final stages of registration. The commission will finish registration of all West Bank territories by 2022.”

    Encouraged by what they can find in archives in terms of land registry, Methaq Center for Heritage and Islamic Research is also working on receiving a new batch of historical Palestinian documents from some Arab states.

    Khalil Karaja al-Rifai, director of Methaq, told the local Maan news agency Jan. 2 that the center is procuring new, important documents that will soon be revealed, in cooperation with the Arab League.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  275. @Wielgus

    ‘… Yet it is clear there were large numbers of Jews or converts for whom not only Hebrew but even Aramaic were inaccessible, making the Septuagint necessary.’

    That’s an interesting argument.

    Greeks and Jews were notoriously hostile to each other all around the Eastern Mediterranean — but the very existence of the Septuagint implies that one way or another, there was a lot of intermingling. Either Greek-readers were getting converted to Judaism, or practitioners of Judaism were getting Hellenized.

    • Replies: @Nonny Mouse
    , @Wielgus
  276. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… Federal funds for religious institutions experiencing repeated violence should receive federal funds…

    This makes no sense. If my house has been repeatedly broken into, it doesn’t follow that I should get federal funds.

  277. @Fran Taubman

    ‘… All mass murderers and serial killers are insane…’

    That’s a silly statement. Your typical Mongol warrior may well have murdered hundreds of helpless victims — but he was perfectly sane. Christopher Browning’s Ordinary Men clearly documents the emphatic sanity of many of those who carried out the Holocaust.

    Conversely, it can usually be demonstrated that many of our individual mass killers are responding to urgings from the larger society around them. For example, that guy who killed those Jews in a synagogue in Pittsburgh was upset about immigration and saw Jews as prominent in the pro-immigration movement.

    So was he insane? If he was, what about the German captain in Ordinary Men who explained to his company that the ‘the Jews’ were killing their wives and children back home in Germany — so the company had been ordered to kill the Jews here in Josefow?

    Perfectly sane people kill people all the time. Look at those killers shooting down unarmed children in Gaza. Are they all insane? Is it only insane Jews that kill the Palestinians in Gaza?

    Now, you do have folks like David Berkowitz — who was convinced that the devil was speaking to him through the neighbor’s dog and telling him to kill people. He was insane.

    But then, Berkowitz didn’t just kill people. He probably watched television some of the time. If he did, it doesn’t follow that only insane people watch television.

    Perfectly sane people watch television as well — and perfectly sane people kill other people too.

    • Agree: Wielgus
  278. @Fran Taubman

    Fran, thanks! I’m so flattered! And you. You seem to have changed your tune in recent months. Your mind no longer seems closed. You are learning.

    Again, thanks.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  279. @Colin Wright

    Jews getting Hellenized doesn’t mean they forget their own language and can no long read their own holy texts. Hellenes getting Judaized more likely.

    Jews getting Hellenized, assimilated, simply had to be exterminated. Thanks, Maccabees!

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  280. @AnonStarter

    Correction: They haven’t reclaimed one million dunams, but rather, registered them under the names of their original owners.

  281. @Nonny Mouse

    ‘Jews getting Hellenized doesn’t mean they forget their own language and can no long read their own holy texts. Hellenes getting Judaized more likely.’

    That seems reasonable.

    ‘Jews getting Hellenized, assimilated, simply had to be exterminated. Thanks, Maccabees!’

    It’d be interesting to see to what extent the Biblical account of things is confirmed by external sources. Is it historically accurate, just some Judeocentric fantasy, or something in between?

    …after all, it’s not like the Seleucids or whatever couldn’t write. It all happened within historically relatively well-documented times.

  282. @Nonny Mouse

    ‘Fran, thanks! I’m so flattered! And you. You seem to have changed your tune in recent months. Your mind no longer seems closed. You are learning.’

    You see, Fran?

    You can do it!

  283. @AnonStarter

    You are correct!! I am not interested in the prosecution of hate crimes as my main focus.
    I am interested in preventing them from happening. If violence towards a group is imminent because they are repetitive. I would appeal for legislation to provide federal funds for increased security. Public and private schools should have guards with metal detectors.

    I chose to answer your post since I agreed with you (LOL) But as I mentioned before I am not interested in debating issues with you. I do not find you an honest interlocker. You are trying to maul me not engage me. Twisting my words in an attempt to trip me up or disqualify what I am saying thru race baiting.

    For me race baiting is lower then a snakes belly. Race baiting is like eating 3 Snickers and 2 packages of Recess cups. A sugar high like calling American Jews Zionist.

    It is not something I find constructive. More like a peeing contest. I find you dishonest as you present yourself as someone interested in the truth and an honest exchange of ideas similar to Talha. When really your main interest is proving that Jews are lying thieves who conspire to control the Western world thru diabolical means, by not mentioning that they are Jews but Zionist. No thanks.

    This is my last post on this thread. I have covered a lot of ground the most meaningful was the review of the 1946 Survey of Palestine by the government of Palestine prepared for the Anglo-American committee of inquiry. I discovered the main land dispute being the Negev dessert and read a lot of material on it. The talmudic stuff was less interesting although Illya’s comments I found answers for.

    • Agree: AaronB
  284. CBTerry says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Apparently I must not have pressed Reply. My reply is Comment 275

  285. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…This is my last post on this thread…’

    Now, Fran. Several months ago you claimed you were leaving this site entirely.

    And yet, here you are!

    Come on, now. You know you want to respond. Hit us with some more of that ‘intellectual heft’ of yours…

  286. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…For me race baiting is lower then a snakes belly. Race baiting is like eating 3 Snickers and 2 packages of Recess cups. A sugar high like calling American Jews Zionist…’

    Who’s race baiting?

    We’ve been talking about Jews. You’ve certainly talked about Muslims.

    Oh boy, have you talked.

    So what’s the problem?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  287. ‘…A sugar high like calling American Jews Zionist…’

    American Jews Zionist?

    Who would believe such a vicious canard? Of course American Jews aren’t Zionist!

    Like the rest of us, they are horrified at the very existence of the vicious abomination that calls itself ‘Israel’ and only wonder at the best way and most expeditious way of putting it down.

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Nonny Mouse
  288. @Fran Taubman

    /I am interested in preventing them from happening./

    Well, then, you’re doing a terrible job of it.

    /Twisting my words in an attempt to trip me up or disqualify what I am saying thru race baiting./

    That’s rich.

    You regularly denigrate Muslims and Palestinians while Aaron’s shtick is insinuating the inferiority of white people, Vietnamese, Palestinians, Muslims, and many others.

    You falsely accused me of racism (which is offensive) and “taqiyyah” (itself an anti-Muslim slur) well before I threw your words back at you. The word “zionist” is not a racist slur. It’s an accurate description of individuals seeking to impose the ethos of Jewish supremacy upon the world. It’s fine that you see zionism as something different, but aside from “Jewish self-determination,” the rest of that perspective remains unclear save through your regularly stated opinions here. When you run interference for Israeli criminality to the extent that you do, that merely confirms the veracity of my own understanding.

    /For me race baiting is lower then a snakes belly./

    Then you’re a hypocrite, plain and simple.

    Truth is, you can’t stand the fact that I make sense, which is why you were inevitably forced to concede the argument, then pretend that it was all about race, tuck tail, and run.

    Good riddance.

    • Agree: renfro, Kali
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  289. @Colin Wright

    What Fran said in one post alone:

    Not only are we fighting the hard left and Muslims, but as you can see on your threads Jews are now fighting against the WN and Neo Nazis. …

    Most of the fight over there has nothing to do with the Palestinians or land. …

    We view the recent display of Jewish force as saving the UK from Globalism, conspirators, Islamic immigration …

    No inflammatory rhetoric against whites, Palestinians, or Muslims here.

    No siree.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  290. @AnonStarter

    ‘… Good riddance.’

    Don’t count on it. As noted, Fran has ‘left’ before.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  291. @AnonStarter

    I am not leaving the site. I am finished with this thread. I have a looming deadline with a week worth of shop work gloves and stuff cannot work phone nor take brakes.
    No distractions
    Prepare your yellow stars for when I return.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @BDS Always
  292. geokat62 says:

  293. @Fran Taubman

    ‘I am not leaving the site. I am finished with this thread…’

    Lol. So you said.

    And yet, here you are posting.

    It’s just like when you said you were leaving the site.

    Don’t get behind on that work, Fran.

    • Replies: @Nonny Mouse
  294. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    There appears to have been conflict among “Hellenisers” in Palestine among Jews, and others who resisted it. In fact this may have gone back to the time of the Macchabees when one of Alexander the Great’s successors encouraged Greek culture and religion, and came into conflict with Jews who resisted this. Greek seems to have been widespread as a second language in Palestine by the time of Christ and quite possibly a first language among Jews elsewhere. If Pilate questioned Jesus without an interpreter, and none is mentioned, it is likely they had Greek as a language in common.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  295. @Wielgus

    ‘…If Pilate questioned Jesus without an interpreter, and none is mentioned, it is likely they had Greek as a language in common.’

    Well…

    Here you’re starting to confuse what you may or may not believe as a matter of faith, and what is a matter of historical record. It’s reasonably certain that Jesus existed, and that he was some kind of prophet — past that you have to think about which conclusions would be historically valid independent of faith.

    It is perhaps significant that the authors of the Gospels — writing two or three generations after the fact — portrayed Pilate as talking directly to Jesus. That suggests that there was some language the Roman rulers shared with their Judean subjects by at least the second half of the first century a.d.

    …or the presence of an interpreter may have simply been seen as insignificant.

    I’m perfectly happy with the notion that by the time of Christ, many Jews were in fact Greek-speaking converts — in fact, I’m confident they were.

    I just don’t necessarily see the Gospels as offering any particularly convincing proof of that.

  296. Wielgus says:

    Greek was certainly the Mediterranean lingua franca at the time.
    There is room for doubt about New Testament writings, but in general who knows how much of the history of the time was accurate? Tacitus for example was also writing a few generations later than many of the events he describes. And agendas may have been present. Only one Roman historian is favourable to Sejanus, and he appears to have died in the same year – was he an associate executed in the purge following the downfall of Sejanus?
    Coming back to Tacitus, he is favourable to the Roman general Agricola, but he also appears to have been related to him.
    The actual command of Greek in the New Testament varies from book to book, although analysing this is confused by the lack of original manuscripts – everything went through scribal recopying and this may have introduced errors or changes – but the author of Luke, for example, seems to write Greek better than the author of Revelation. Could it be that Greek was the native language of some authors and a not fully mastered second language for others?

  297. @Colin Wright

    I wish you were serious, Colin. I wish that were the truth.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @AnonStarter
  298. @Colin Wright

    She’s often deserved a hammering, Colin, but you’re being a little unfair here. She said “I’m going”, then said it again, so she lied the first time? Really?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Colin Wright
  299. @Nonny Mouse

    In my last reply to Colin, I was going to tell him that I not only knew she’d be back, she wouldn’t be able to get out of the thread without another response.

    In this particular exchange, she should have already left. She didn’t because she’s now terribly bothered by my exposure of her duplicity and felt it necessary to “remind” me of who she thinks the real racist is, snapping, “Prepare your yellow stars for when I return.”

    No need to prepare a yellow star when she wears it on her head like a crown of thorns.

  300. @Nonny Mouse

    ‘She’s often deserved a hammering, Colin, but you’re being a little unfair here. She said “I’m going”, then said it again, so she lied the first time? Really?’

    Well, that’s one of the neat things about Fran. One can be unfair, and not feel bad. After all, ‘for it is evil things we shall be fighting’ and all that.

    Besides, she did quit the site entirely in past. It’s not like she’s honest or anything.

    To be frank, I am not entirely sure what the point of all this is. Is it just an excuse to let my inner pit bull off the leash?

    …but then, should Fran be allowed to purvey Zionist filth unhindered? Shouldn’t she be discouraged, brought to focus on Chardonnay and binge-watching costume dramas instead? Wouldn’t that be the right thing to do?

  301. @Nonny Mouse

    ‘I wish you were serious, Colin. I wish that were the truth.’

    Agree. I liked it when I was able to think of Jews as punctiliously moral people, myself.

    Perhaps not a whole lot of fun on Saturday night, but certainly ethical. That was much nicer.

  302. @Nonny Mouse

    One thing many need to understand better is the zionist’s cynical use of the word “Israel” in reference to the polity currently occupying Palestine. Originally, the term referenced the House of Israel, including all members of the original tribes thereof.

    The biblical record of Israel — the Israel to whom God spoke — informs us rather clearly of curses that will befall it for failure to uphold the Law [Deuteronomy 28: 15-68]. Even if we accept that today’s Israelites are genetically descended from the originals, their own Scripture heralds their imminent demise as a consequence of their current conduct.

    I’m not sure there are too many with the chutzpah to accuse God of anti-Semitism, but you never know.

    • Replies: @barr
  303. @Fran Taubman

    “What the tzadik is to the Jew, the Jew is to the non Jew.”

    Sorry for the slow reply, away for the weekend.

    I don’t deny the reasonability of certifying levels of achievement, it is done within & – Dhamma and other faiths too.

    And yes, those that follow the Noachide laws are better actors than those that don’t.

    It’s the strictness of the delineation for the Gentiles that bothers me. For the border condition – does a Gentile then start following Noachide laws only through selfish action? They are not a ‘Gentile tzadik’, so to say, and before following the Noachide laws they “must be” acting selfishly.

    If selfishness is denied in the sentence, how does a Gentile get to the Noachide ideal selflessly, in good faith?

    And is there a reverse of the tzadik within Jewish theology? A Jewish failure, defined as one who doesn’t follow the Noachide laws? Whose actions are also considered selfish? With such balance, the statement wouldn’t be bothersome.

  304. @Fran Taubman

    The bronze age Hebrews introduced the idea that god is not knowable or describable in our physical universe by our existing sensory ability. God as a divine being takes up no dimensions in time and space, and is not temporal.

    And Plato in his Parmenides dialogue showed logically that both One and Many are logically distinct, and that neither can have any knowledge of the other. (And Plato showed himself to be an idealogue by not accepting his work himself by posing a greatest problem of squaring that circle)

    Metaphysics is the bain of the faithful. It allows them to be shown to be wrong, practically, and then remove the validity of that demonstration by making an empty box of an argument, putting a bow on it, and throwing it in with G-d, and whatever that faith’s take on their metaphysical is.

    My mum does this. She’s a born again Christian, and whenever the debate gets too close for comfort, she just replies ‘Ilya, it has all been written, learn the Bible!’.

    The debates in the Pali Canon were nice in this respect. Whenever a brahmin comes with his possy, starts losing the debate, and someone else, a disciple, tries to speak for him, Buddha just asks ‘is your teacher not intelligent enough to answer for himself?’.

    Same now – faiths with an unknowable metaphysics escape from observable, verifiable critique, with unverifiable determinants.

    • Replies: @Fran Taubman
  305. @Fran Taubman

    ‘…The bronze age Hebrews introduced the idea that…’

    There were no ‘bronze age Hebrews.’ Nothing in Judaism can be dated to before about 600 BC.

    • Replies: @barr
  306. barr says:
    @Fran Taubman

    Just one person was enough to make this prevent and never let happen . Ghaddafi. Juts one person .

    Just one person brought this back. Just one person His name is Bernard levy

  307. barr says:
    @AnonStarter

    Israel means who struggles with God. There was a video of somebody by name Glick She recounted in video that Israel fought with gods over why ” wont you( God) give it to me”.

    Interesting !

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  308. barr says:
    @Colin Wright

    Late Bronze age identified the existences of YWAH and Israel through Egyptian sources . The sources tell us of a violent nomadic group living in the land occupied by other Canaanite groups . This particular one remained beyond the pale of Egyptian civilization . Israel was in ” Isarel Steele ” of Egyptian record.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  309. @barr

    ‘Late Bronze age identified the existences of YWAH and Israel through Egyptian sources …’

    Late Bronze age tells us the word ‘Israel’ was used by some group in the Levant.

    Roman records tell us there were Angles and Saxons raiding the coast of Britain in the fourth century AD.

    That does not demonstrate Parliament was in session. What little we know about the religious practices of the inhabitants of Bronze Age Palestine points to nothing resembling Judaism.

    ‘Israel’ was a word current in Bronze Age Palestine. That’s as significant as demonstrating that ‘Chicago’ was a word used by the local Indians in the seventeenth century to designate a site at the southwestern corner of Lake Michigan.

    It doesn’t tell us the modern city was there.

    Everything I’ve read points to Judaism appearing as an urban cult more or less simultaneously in Babylon, Jerusalem, and Egypt as a consequence of the Persian conquests. It appears to owe most of its theology — and a good deal of its mythology — to Mesopotamia. About all you can say is that for some reason, Palestine is assigned significance in the cult.

    The rest is fractured fairy tales. You might as well consult Mallory’s Morte ‘d Arthur for clues to life in Dark Age Britain.

    • Replies: @barr
  310. @Fran Taubman

    What a load of Bollocks.
    Bollocks meaning: Nonsense, Testicles or Hasbara Propaganda.

  311. barr says:
    @Colin Wright

    Draw your conclusion whatever way you want . That’s your opinion
    Fact of the matter is that there was a tribe who worshiped YAWH in Canaan who were not domesticated by Egyptian while other Canaanites were . They wre called Shapru not Nipru as earleir record indicated about another Canaanite.

    Egypt attacked them again in the era of Mernepath .Egyptian stele ( stone or wood with inscriptions, reliefs or paintings,texts) mentioned the presence of a tribe whose name was Israel.

    Persian conquest of Egypt was facilitated by Jewish garrison mainly at Elephantine point in 500 + BC Egyptian did not forget this disloyalty on the part of the Jewish garrison

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  312. @barr

    ‘Draw your conclusion whatever way you want …’

    What you’re trying to do here is to take a narrative that was first set down in any form we’d recognize a good thousand years after the supposed events — and whenever we can match those supposed events to any source external to the narrative — archeology, the records of the surrounding civilizations — there isn’t a fit.

    Now, in say, medieval history, the Song of Roland is considered a useful source for the culture of the era in which it was actually set down — the eleventh century. However, although it purports to relate events that occurred under Charlemagne, no one regards it as having any meaningful accuracy for that period.

    Charlemagne had ruled around two hundred and fifty years earlier, you see.

    Ditto for accounts of the crusades, etc. They’re of value — if they appeared within fifty years or so of the events recounted.

    More distant than that, and they start to become simply fairy tales and nonsense.

    This is basic historiography. Now, if you want to take the Old Testament as casting any meaningful light on events that happened a thousand years before any of it was written, I can’t stop you — but you’re telling me about your religious beliefs, not history.

    and this is the basic problem with much of what passes for ‘history’ when it comes to ancient Palestine. It’s persistently distorted by the attempt to find in the Bible an account of events before about 600 bc — when there’s no reason to think any such thing at all is there.

    • Replies: @KA
  313. KA says:
    @Colin Wright

    Are you saying that your hymn or hosanna written today about today’s leaders were discovered few years ago?
    That what documenting on the stele by Egyptian will look like and sound like.

    Shashu worshipped by name YWH and occupied an area that corresponded to Mount Sinai and Shashu land was later called Edom in Bible
    Egyptian called Shashu bandit looter and marauder .
    Merneptah (r 1237-1226bce) campaigned in Cannan . His conquest include many places .Appearing among the list of the conquered cities ,we have name of Israel.
    End of Bronze Age was marked by presence of following cities – Moab, Edom,Aram,Ammon,Phonecia, in Cannan in addition to Israel.

    Philistine are Aegean people who came to southern Cannan in 12th century BCE and introduced different culture.

    Battles raged among them for centuries . Israel functioned as coherent nation with religion and language and insignia of a state between 1000 to 925 BCE

    Then they lost to Assyrian.

    Embellishments ,invention of story, spinning of events definitely shaped the narrative of these people who once roamed and harassed Egyptian.

    • Disagree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  314. @KA

    ‘… Battles raged among them for centuries . Israel functioned as coherent nation with religion and language and insignia of a state between 1000 to 925 BCE…’

    Now I know about your religious beliefs. That’s nice. I didn’t ask, but…

    • Replies: @KA
  315. @Truth3

    Exactly right. The OT was written by a people to glory themselves, place themselves above others in importance and rights and dignity, and justify killing or subjugating other peoples under the pretense that “God told us to do it” or “God condemned those evil people and promised us their lands.” It is not subtle and it is in no way logical or convincing to anyone not predisposed to believe it because they’re in the supposedly God-favored group.

    Ironically, in this respect the OT is like the koran, another embarrassingly-transparently self-serving tome written to claim Godly authorization for whatever Mohammad (SHAME be upon him) felt like doing at the time.

    When he lusted after a particular woman, “God” sent him a “revelation” advising that Mo could take that woman. Other men were limited to four wives (if they could properly support them) per koran 4:3, but Mo had either nine or eleven wives and “God” was fine with that, see koran 33:50 and Salih al-Bukhari 268.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  316. @Fran Taubman

    Kabbalah is not remotely popular outside Judaism, at least here in the USA. Nobody even knows what it is.

  317. KA says:
    @Colin Wright

    You should know how to and when to pause and think .You should also understand how to separate Jewish chaff from Jewish wheat .

  318. @RadicalCenter

    /When he lusted after a particular woman, “God” sent him a “revelation”/

    He had known Zainab bint Jahsh all her life, since she was his cousin. Had he “lusted after her,” he would have simply taken her as a wife much earlier.

    The Prophet originally arranged the marriage between Zainab and Zaid, and though Zainab knew Zaid to be a good man, she herself wasn’t satisfied with the marriage. This was a blow to Zaid, who didn’t want to divorce her. Since it was certain that, given the family-centered Islamic ethos in which they lived, Zainab would remarry another man soon after divorcing Zaid, the only alternative spouse with which Zaid would be content was the Prophet himself. All of this occurred with tactful and considerate consultation among the concerned parties.

    Of course, these are details that you won’t find in readily available English translations of seerah literature, much of which is woefully incomplete.

    As for 33: 50, it speaks of those women already married to the Prophet. Two verses later, we read

    It is not allowed for you to take women henceforth, nor to exchange them for other wives even though their beauty pleases you, save those whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is ever Watcher over all things. [33: 52]

    “Those whom your right hand possesses” refers to female slaves, and in Arabic, the implication of “taking” them is marriage — an act that, more often than not, eventually led to the slave’s emancipation.

    Given the environment in which it is conditioned, the contemporary occidental mind typically perceives polygamy in unfortunately prurient terms. In the seventh century, polygamy was commonplace, and in Arabia of the same period, marrying a daughter to a reputed shaikh was often done with the intent to improve relations between two tribes. Being who he was, the Prophet was often sought after for this purpose; as such, 33: 52 actually forestalled that type of request.

    Moreover, there was no limit to the number of wives a man could have prior to 4: 3, which is actually the world’s first divine imperative to condone monogamy.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  319. @AnonStarter

    Note: The historical record of Zainab’s reason for divorce concerned Zaid’s appearance, nothing more.

  320. @barr

    The translation of Isra’el as “struggles with God” is potentially misleading. It doesn’t imply having doubts about God or contending with Him. One should consider the Arabic term jihad, which best translates as “patient struggle,” one undertaken in the path to God.

    In Controversy of Zion, Douglas Reed draws a distinction between the original Israelites and the tribe of Judah:

    Before 458 BC, for instance, there were in the main only “oral traditions”; the documentary period begins in the two centuries leading up to 458 BC, when Judah had been disavowed by the Israelites. At this stage, when the word-of-mouth tradition became written Scripture, the perversion occurred. The surviving words of the earlier Israelites show that their tradition was a widening one of neighbourliness under a universal God. This was changed into its opposite by the itinerant priests who segregated the Judahites and established the worship of Jehovah as the god of racialism, hatred and revenge. …

    It was the Levites, with their racial creed, that Israel rejected. The next two hundred years, during which Israel and Judah existed separately, and often in enmity, but side by side, are filled with the voices of the Hebrew “prophets”, arraigning the Levites and the creed which they were constructing. …

    These men were nearly all Israelites; most of them were Josephites. They were on the road to the one-God of all-peoples and to participation in mankind. …

    They were in truth Israelite remonstrants against the Levitical teaching which was to become identified with the name of Judah. …

    They were protestants in their time and gave simple warning of the calculable consequences of the racial creed; their warning remains valid today.

    • Replies: @KA
  321. @Ilya G Poimandres

    Sorry for the delay. I had a work deadline.
    It does not matter whether the definition of god as unknowable and not describable with our physical senses, and god does not exist bounded by space in time.
    The fact that this was a new way to think of a god as a divine being not a physical statue was a profound as an idea during the Bronze age.
    As a theory it was the first conceptual idea of a definition of god. Similar in impact to the discovery of gravity.
    It was a game changer as an idea, whether provable or not.

  322. @Fran Taubman

    ‘ …I am finished with this thread… ‘

    …and yet here you are.

    Comment really is superfluous, isn’t it?

  323. @Fran Taubman

    I disagree. To me all major faiths, and the old ones too, have notions of Unity, Oneness, or a primal cause (the Buddha discourages having faith in a prime mover in Anguttara Nikaya 3.61, https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.061.than.html for practical considerations).

    None of the beliefs ‘bring down’ the metaphysical to the physical, but only taint the metaphysical with physical, conventional, ideas and words. The spoken word is the true idolatry – because it forces experience into objects, the big G being the final ‘object’, or description of this.

    I like that Judaism avoids taking the Absolute as an object as much as possible, which was a great development for faith in the West (though sadly lost by the Christians and Muslims to different degrees). Dhamma goes much further, even as the later followers turn it a bit into idol worship of a Buddha. The only major difference is that nibbana is knowable, but not sensual.. not any thing really!

  324. I do not know what you disagree with. It seems like you agree.

    I like that Judaism avoids taking the Absolute as an object as much as possible, which was a great development for faith in the West (though sadly lost by the Christians and Muslims to different degrees). Dhamma goes much further, even as the later followers turn it a bit into idol worship of a Buddha. The only major difference is that nibbana is knowable, but not sensual.. not any thing really!

    Islam stayed close to the Judaic version of the divine. They have a no statue policy and reinforces the non describable nature of god.
    Unfortunately once the Romans got a hold of Jesus they turned the Jewish Messiah into a Roman god with a mother and father and like Zeus and other Roman gods. The trinity is anathema to Jews who might believe that Jesus was the Messiah of the Jews. The statue of Jesus nailed to the cross as well as the father, son and holy ghost flies in the face of the number 1 most important contribution of Judaism .
    The one god with no statues to pray to and takes no human form.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  325. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fran Taubman

    The Jesus on the cross statue is an exclusively Catholic thing I believe, most Protestants in particular consider it to be blasphemous and I don’t think it’s as common in Orthodoxy either.

  326. KA says:
    @AnonStarter

    Not an expert. I am fine with your interpretation.
    Gluck from Israel on You tube video was heard emphasizing on this definition to assert the age old tradition of Jewish efforts to try try and try to extract from other what they want.

  327. Johan says:

    “Instead of returning to universal anti racist politics consistent with so-called ‘Labour values,’”

    The anti-semitism craze is the mother of the post WWII anti-racist agenda, the current madness. Just as the environmental agenda is hijacked by elites, fanatics and cults. In general all ‘enlightenment’ idealism is hijacked by fanatics and power hungry elites, Zionism driving it all.
    Since there is no agenda of ‘progress’ which is not in the hands of Zionism, the order of proceeding as criticized by Gilad is perfectly logical. And, there is no alternative, the ‘universal’ idealism, the idealism not corrupted by Zionism is by long sidetracked to the point of being marginalized, with the aim of becoming extinct.

    Zionism in this respect does not merely point to settler ideology, and Israel, but international Zionism, crude materialism, power mongering and amassing of gigantic amounts of money and wealth.

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