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Sigh. I have just read that a young woman named Sage Santangelo has failed the infantry-trainimg course for Marine officers at Quantico, bringing the rate of female failure to 29 out of 29. As an old hand with thirty years covering the military, I can attest that this vu is getting more deja all the time. Women have never succeeded at physical things in the military becauese they can’t. More on that in a moment.

Santangelo seems a most impressive woman. Any woman who would attempt the TBE course is necessarily impressive. We are not talking pampered Swarthmore brats in Women’ Studies. She reports making her first solo flight at fifteen, climbing most of Colorado’s highest peaks, playing goalie on a boy’s hockey team. She is Marine material, and has my respect.

But she washed out on day one. Even tough, fiercely determined, highly athletic women can’t do it. It isn’t their fault. We are born with the equipment we are born with.

A few observations I made while chasing the military around the world, which my remaining contacts tell me still hold. Females officers tended to be officers, competitive, seeing the military as a career, and doing whatever is needed to advance, to include performing well. In non-physical fields, they can. Enlisted females often had little interest in the military but wanted a job, something to do, a place to have a baby at government expense. They came on average from a lower social class than the officers, often the ghetto. Female officers, like the men, wanted combat assignments because that is how you get your ticket punched to advance. The enlisted women wanted no part of combat, and would deliberately get pregnant to avoid it.

Over and over I have heard the same tale: When hard physical work was needed, the women looked cute while the men put up the tents or unloaded mortar rounds from a six-by. Mortar rounds come in crates. The crates are heavy. A six-by carries many, many of them. Women can’t do it. It isn’t just in the military. In my scube-diving days, the women in my club–Capitol Divers–were fine divers. When a truck of forty aluminum-eighties needed unloading, the guys did it.

And there are problems that one mustn’t talk about. Menstruation, for example. Women often are in pain, they want light duty, and become erratic. Having men of low social class in authority over young wmen inevitably results in rape or behavior close to it, usually by black men. Women don’t like to squat and pee around men, which can lead to absurd behavior–see below. Thirteen men in a squad will work together as a team; add a woman and they will all compete to get into her pants. Sex erodes command authority: Once Admiral Jones gets involved with Seaman Sally, it stops being, “Yessir, Admiral,” and becomes “But Bob….” Use sex to get what they want? No, never. Perish the thought.

The brass are terrified of women. An admiral once told me that he would not allow a woman in his office without having the door open and a witness present. All she had to do was say, “He groped me,” and he would be in deep kimchi. He knew it, and she knew it.

OK, some phsical stats. Rather than pointlessly rewrite, I append in its entirely an ancient column:

Fred Reed, USMC Retired, Danang, 1967

The Dismal Facts

Occasionally I have written that placing women in physically demanding jobs in the military, as for example combat, is stupid and unworkable. Predictably I’ve gotten responses asserting that I hate women, abuse children, cannibalize orphans, and can’t get a date. A few, with truculence sometimes amplified by misspelling, have demanded supporting data.

OK. The following are from documents I found in a closet, left over from my days as a syndicated military columnist (“Soldiering,” Universal Press Syndicate). Note the dates: All of this has been known for a long time.

From the report of the Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey’s in 1993): “The average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to suffer [stress] fractures as men.”

Further: “The Commission heard an abundance of expert testimony about the physical differences between men and women that can be summarized as follows:

“Women’s aerobic capacity is significantly lower, meaning they cannot carry as much as far as fast as men, and they are more susceptible to fatigue.

“In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are at the level of the male median. The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50 year-old man.”

From the same report: “Lt Col. William Gregor, United States Army, testified before the Commission regarding a survey he conducted at an Army ROTC Advanced Summer Camp on 623 women and 3540 men. …Evidence Gregor presented to the Commission includes:

“(a) Using the standard Army Physical Fitness Test, he found that the upper quintile of women at West point achieved scores on the test equivalent to the bottom quintile of men.

“(c) Only 21 women out of the initial 623 (3.4%) achieved a score equal to the male mean score of 260.

“(d) On the push-up test, only seven percent of women can meet a score of 60, while 78 percent of men exceed it.

“(e) Adopting a male standard of fitness at West Point would mean 70 percent of the women he studied would be separated as failures at the end of their junior year, only three percent would be eligible for the Recondo badge, and not one would receive the Army Physical Fitness badge….”

The following, quoted by Brian Mitchell in his book Women in the Military: Flirting With Disaster (Regnery, 1998) and widely known to students of the military, are results of a test the Navy did to see how well women could perform in damage control — i.e., tasks necessary to save a ship that had been hit.

Test % Women Failing % Men Failing
Before Training After Training Before Training After Training
Stretcher carry, level 63 38 0 0
Stretcher carry/up, down ladder 94 88 0 0
Fire hose 19 6 0 0
P250 pump, carry down 99 99 9 4
P250 pump, carry up 73 52 0 0
P250, start pump 90 75 0 0
Remove SSTO pump 99 99 0 0
Torque engine bolt 78 47 0 0

Our ships can be hit. I know what supersonic stealthed cruise missiles are. So do the Iraqis.

Also from the Commission’s report: “Non-deployability briefings before the Commission showed that women were three times more non-deployable than men, primarily due to pregnancy, during Operations Desert Shield and Storm. According to Navy Captain Martha Whitehead’s testimony before the Commission, ‘the primary reason for the women being unable to deploy was pregnancy, that representing 47 percent of the women who could not deploy.'”

Maybe we need armored strollers.

My friend Catherine Aspy graduated from Harvard in 1992 and (no, I’m not on drugs) enlisted in the Army in 1995. Her account was published in Reader’s Digest, February, 1999, and is online in the Digest’s archives.

She told me the following about her experiences: “I was stunned. The Army was a vast day-care center, full of unmarried teen-age mothers using it as a welfare home. I took training seriously and really tried to keep up with the men. I found I couldn’t. It wasn’t even close. I had no idea the difference in physical ability was so huge. There were always crowds of women sitting out exercises or on crutches from training injuries.

“They [the Army] were so scared of sexual harassment that women weren’t allowed to go anywhere without another woman along. They called them ‘Battle Buddies.’ It was crazy. I was twenty-six years old but I couldn’t go to the bathroom by myself.”

Women are going to take on the North Korean infantry, but need protection in the ladies’ room. Military policy is endlessly fascinating.

When I was writing the military column, I looked into the experience of Canada, which tried the experiment of feminization. I got the report from Ottawa, as did the Commission. Said the Commission:

“After extensive research, Canada has found little evidence to support the integration of women into ground units. Of 103 Canadian women who volunteered to joint infantry units, only one graduated the initial training course. The Canadian experience corroborates the testimony of LTC Gregor, who said the odds of selecting a woman matching the physical size and strength of the average male are more than 130-to-1.

From Military Medicine, October 1997, which I got from the Pentagon’s library:

(p. 690): “One-third of 450 female soldiers surveyed indicated that they experienced problematic urinary incontinence during exercise and field training activities. The other crucial finding of the survey was probably that 13.3% of the respondents restricted fluids significantly while participating in field exercises.” Because peeing was embarrassing.

Or, (p. 661): ” Kessler et al found that the lifetime prevalence of PTSD in the United States was twice as high among women…” Depression, says MilMed, is far commoner among women, as are training injuries. Et cetera.

The military is perfectly aware of all of this. Their own magazine has told them. They see it every day. But protecting careers, and rears, is more important than protecting the country.

Anyway, for those who wanted supporting evidence, there it is.

(Republished from Fred on Everything by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Ideology • Tags: American Military, Feminism 
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  1. Sean T says:

    I never knew a female bartender who could handle the physical part of the job. Life in America is like watching a movie. You have to cultivate a “suspension of disbelief.”

    • Replies: @Cato
  2. […] reason, for example, that an especially strong and agile woman can’t be a combat soldier. But it is folly to lower the bar just so that more women can qualify as combat soldiers. The same goes for intellectual occupations. […]

  3. Fred has the cart in front of the horse:

    ^ Fred’s Marines could be carrying water (and ammo) for these women and the main casualties among the males would be their insufferable egos

    ps, I didn’t see any ‘supporting data’ going to Fred’s prima facie racist remark on military rape being committed “usually by black men” .. but this guy looks pretty White:

    For those who prefer the satire:

  4. Kobani type static warfare seems ideal for female fighters.

  5. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    They can’t do the job but then who cares? Which of our wars since WWII have achieved anything anyway? We’re the conquerers of Grenada and Panama, that’s about it. The official recent commanders-in-chief have been Clinton-Bush-Obama, hardly a Napoleon amongst them that would inspire anybody. In the case of any future conflict give the female soldiers their guns and equipment and then push them in front ahead of everybody else. If they die they die. They volunteered for it didn’t they? It’s about time women started keeping up their end of the load. Why should all the dead and disabled always be men?

  6. “Female officers, like the men, wanted combat assignments because that is ho you get your ticket punched to advance”

    Love the article, as I do most of Fred’s writing, just hoping (given the subject matter) that the above was a typo!

  7. @Ronald Thomas West

    “ps, I didn’t see any ‘supporting data’ going to Fred’s prima facie racist remark on military rape being committed “usually by black men” .. but this guy looks pretty White:”

    On a per capita basis, black males commit rape more than white males. Notice I said ‘per capita basis’, as of course the absolute numbers may not be as stark given that there are more whites than blacks in this country. Your finding a story about a white offender does not change this. And if you want supporting data, go find it yourself – it is readily available.

  8. P250 pump weighs about 30 kg (~70 lb)
    bundle of asphalt shingles usually 60 to 80 lbs

    I’ve carried asphalt shingles up onto roofs. I’m only 5’4″ and 99 lbs, and I’m sure some of those big fat [broads] who got a kick out of trying to push me around could do it, too.

  9. seank says:

    I worked on an MCB (Marine Corps Base) a few years ago. Hardly what anyone would think. These are hardly the rough and tumble people they are portayed to be. Many blacks and mexicans driving around blasting rap. White kids who wore sagging jeans when not in uniform. Most from broken families and poor upbringing. Leaving base and shopping after work I felt like I left a low class trashy place.

  10. Ivy says:

    One problem with fiat equality is that eventually, at inopportune times, someone will say fix it again Tony, but Toni won’t be able to.

  11. @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    Sure, you can find that per capita statistic but statistics often lie because they frequently do not take into account the larger social picture. I propose the fact; when WASP (and right wing Catholic) Christian supremacists rule the Pentagon and happen to believe women do all sorts things to deserve rape (like dare step outside the kitchen or believe they were meant for more than a bedroom breeding mare) you have an environment that shields ‘good White Christian men’ (officers and senior NCOs particularly) from rape prosecutions. But a Black man dare rape and he’ll have 10 times or 100 times the chance of prosecution. That’s how our society operates. Note the rapist in the article was not only White but in charge of tamping down on a rape epidemic at the Air Force Academy the Pentagon has dragged its feet addressing (to say the least.) This reflects a larger military phenomena in the officer corps initially exposed with the ‘tailhook’ scandal in the early 90s.

    ^ Here is where statistics could trap you. What is the Black percentage of the USA’s military officer corps? Will you find a preponderance of Black rapists there? I somehow strongly doubt it. In fact the statistics likely could show reversed percentages or disproportionate numbers of White rapists in relation to the overall military environment.

    And there is plenty of evidence White authorities will protect their own in relation to rape and other races on a wider social model, here is a salient example:

    Here’s and alternative cultural view that might penetrate the myopia demonstrated in some of the bs here … too bad it’s offensive but that’s sometimes well deserved:

  12. Men should get out of the military game. After thousands of years fighting wars to end all wars men obviously are not capable.

    For the blood thirsty, strictly female militaries are best.

  13. @Ronald Thomas West

    It is in poor taste to use comment section posting to advertise your own blog. It seems to be a habit with you.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  14. Vendetta says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Christians DO NOT believe that a woman ever deserves to be raped, you blithering imbecile.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  15. @Vendetta

    Laughs. Why not look into the cover-ups of rape at fundamentalist Christian central, a.k.a the United States Air Force Academy. Or are they merely hypocrites?

  16. @Ronald Thomas West

    You invalidate anything you have to say with your pathetic attempts to drive traffic to your site.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  17. @Chris Mallory

    Actually, UNZ REVIEW has driven lots of traffic to my site, here is the #1 example (with my sincere thanks to Ron Unz for promoting my work)

    ^ Well over 4,000 reads, not bad for a pathetic effort 😉

    • Replies: @TWS
  18. Oldeguy says:

    No denial of obvious facts of Nature is too bizarre for our Ruling Elite to pursue.

  19. When I was in the Corps, prior to, through and after the Korean War, (Conflict they called it), when stationed for a time at LeJeune, there were BAMS* aplenty; all in their separate barracks building and doing the administrative work you would expect them to do. It is unimaginable that a woman could be in a line company.

    I can just see that when the division shipped out on APAs or whatever the Navy uses now. Racks 6-deep, with maybe 18 inches between them and many filled with women was how it was. That’s a recipe for serious disaster. I wouldn’t want anything to do with a female Marine trying to be more than a nurse or a clerk. Pitch a little tent, lay down our ponchos and we’re off to dreamland. Good Lord; can you imagine that even?

    For a time, I was a DI in PI and, again, cannot imagine a female in a boot platoon. They simply could not hack it. How could I chew them out and give them the rations of s**t given the guys? They’d miss out on the experience and come out less than a Marine. And separate showers forever?

    * For those of you not old enough, a BAM was the acronym for Broad-Ass-Marine. Ugly bunch they were too. maybe that’s the answer. But, the ugly Marines wouldn’t care; that was all they ever got anyway.

  20. I say if women are equal to men in terms of athletic capabilities and can go into the army, then let there be justice at the Olympics, too! Let women compete with men – as equals. (Transgendered baloney doesn’t count.)

    It would take one Olympics to drive the point home.

    There would probably be one woman who actually beats the guys at some off-beat sport. She would be the exception that proves the rule.

    • Replies: @markflag
  21. The only field where we have any gender remaining gender realism is in sports. Nobody experts a woman to compete with men on the sports field, which is why we have separate teams and events for men and women.

    If a small number of women are so desperate to be in combat roles than set up a few small combat units for women. At least women can carry each other if they get injured, and don’t mind watching each other relieving themselves.

  22. Fake Name says:

    The military services are a social and moral shipwreck.

    Regarding Fred’s black rape remark, my son narrowly escaped being gang raped by a bunch of white guys at Camp Pendleton. I don’t really know who’s doing most of the raping out there. Maybe its blacks and maybe it’s homosexuals and maybe it’s white men and maybe it’s a bit of every group. Be assured, however, that the full truth will never be willingly disclosed by the military.

    If I have a chance to tell a young person not to enter military service, I do it.

    No, I’m not a hater of the military. I served in the American military. So did my father.

  23. MQ says:

    Fortunately they are now allowing transgender men in the military, and I presume they will be classified as female. So that will solve the physical gap issue at least.

    Agree with West — it’s a bit silly to claim after everything that has come out re the air force academy and so on that the rape problem is all about ‘black men’.

  24. TWS says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    So you’re a successful parasite, good for you.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  25. @ Ronald Thomas West, 16

    Why not look into the cover-ups of rape at fundamentalist Christian central, a.k.a the United States Air Force Academy. Or are they merely hypocrites?


  26. @TWS

    When ‘Christian civilization’ has collapsed due to its aggressiveness (in every sense of the word), maybe cockroaches will thrive. In a sense of social metaphor, perhaps they already have. Evolution loves parasites and I haven’t seen any better than those Christians who see themselves superior to other cultures, a superiority that ‘Christian’ culture’s institutions love using to justify taking other nations wealth at gunpoint:

    ^ Parasites rule our society

  27. rod1963 says:

    Women simply lack the physical attributes. Working in industrial environments, I never saw women as part of the labor gang, electricians or mechanics. The environment and work was too damn demanding. Sure they can drive a rock truck or skip loader the size of a MBT, but that doesn’t demand physical effort.

    The problem is in our society is that isn’t PC to mention the differences anymore, the feminists and Leftists go nuts and do their jihad thing on those males who dare mention it.

    So we get institutional insanity of putting females in the combat MOS’s.

    Right now I’m just waiting for feminists to demand their prostrate exams.

  28. @Ronald Thomas West

    Tailhook isn’t in the Navy. Its a private civilian club that had a convention in Las Vegas. Scandal happened at Las Vegas Hilton.

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  29. @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    The Sexual Assault Prevention guy wasn’t on a base at the time and didn’t do it to a military woman.

  30. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Civilian club? I don’t think so. Off duty and off base do not make a civilian and that’s why the Department of Defense investigated:

    “The Tailhook scandal was a series of incidents where more than 100 U.S. Navy and United States Marine Corps aviation officers were alleged to have sexually assaulted at least 83 women and 7 men, or otherwise engaged in “improper and indecent” conduct at the Las Vegas Hilton in Las Vegas, Nevada. The events took place at the 35th Annual Tailhook Association Symposium from September 8 to 12, 1991. The term can also refer to the resulting investigations conducted by the Department of the Navy and the Inspector General of the Department of Defense”


    How many of those officers were Black? Considering tail-hook was a 1991 event, likely not many:

    “Black officers representation in the Navy, although lower than the Army’s representation, has increased significantly since FY85, growing from 3% to 8% in FY09. Black officer representation in the Air Force and the Marine Corps, on the other hand, has remained relatively steady over time (approximately 5% to 6%)”


  31. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    As a man’s right advocate, I say it’s about time women fought and died in wars.

    Look at military cemeteries. Almost all of the dead are MEN. How unfair is that? It’s time to have women die in battle for a change.

    So, from now on, I say 90% of all combat forces must be made up of women. Too many men have died in the past. We need affirmative military service to redress past wrongs. Men got killed and men got maimed in war. It’s time women get killed and hurt too for their country.

    What is a soldier really? He or she is a slave with a gun. He or she may feel powerful with big guns, but he or she has no control over them. They must always do as ordered by superiors who, in turn, must take orders from politicians who must, in turn, take orders from their controllers and funders(the super rich).

    Men have served as slaves-with-guns and died for too long. It’s time women picked up the slack finally and died and got maimed too.

    • Replies: @Deguello Morte
  32. Blobby5 says:

    Might as well have useless soldiers for all our useless wars.

  33. Drogger says: • Website
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Women are typically used in auxiliary roles or as last line of resort when the number of battle ready males dwindles. Seeing as how the Kurds have been under pressure from the Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians, and, mainly, the Turks for over 50-60 years… it makes sense for them to have battle ready women.

    Now tell me: What need is there for the United States of America for battle-ready women when we have millions of capable males to be on the front lines if they were needed? Is China, Russia, or Al-Qaeda threatening enough for us to use female soldiers at this point?

    When an enemy has put boots on American soil, then yah, I’d say it’d be a great time to use women in combat,

    Until then we are courting disaster for no other reason than to push a political agenda. Now I don’t know if you’re well read in your history but when political agendas interfere with military operations…. things don’t go so well.

    • Replies: @Deguello Morte
  34. Fred Reed’s column really touches on a matter that has overwhelmed almost all branches of the U.S. Government. I can attest so, having worked for the U.S. Forest Service during its dramatic decline during the 1980s and 1990s. With the beginning of every season over the past 35 years, the agency begins to recruit women for all disciplines at a 43% ration. Then all season long they depart at rates much higher than their male counterparts because the physical challenges simply overwhelm them. In addition, those that manage to secure a less physically demanding position are promoted much faster than the men.

    But whatever the discipline they depart in very high numbers. Worse, men have long since realized that they are held to a much higher standard of performance than the women. They therefore leave the agency in numbers that are almost as phenomenal as the women. This is why no one in the forest service knows their districts anymore, and why the fires are so huge.
    Einstein’s famous quote is almost a cliche today: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” But the truth is ever since the early 1980s the U.S. Forest Service starts off the hiring season by pretending that despite all the catastrophes of the previous year, no lessons are to be learned. And that the human resources department will deal with this year’s catastrophes in the same manner as the year before.

    And so it is with the thoroughly corrupted Joint Chiefs of Staff, and immoral officers below who have long since given up promoting by merit. They may not have had their 450,000 acre fires yet, but when the next blow is struck by a major power and they lose 450,000 “persons” in uniform in two weeks, theirs will be a disgrace so overwhelming it will last a thousand years.

    “The Tinder Box How Politically Correct Ideology Destroyed the U.S. Forest Service,” Christopher Burchfield, does a good job in covering the destruction of that agency. Fred Reed, or someone of his background should write a similar book about the Armed Services. Like Burchfield he will end up with a small publisher without the contacts that a Random House agent has, But as “The Tinder Box” has begun to circulate through the small towns of the West in ever greater numbers, so will a like book circulate through the many towns with military bases nearby.

    Parker H. French

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
  35. @Ronald Thomas West

    The stats on crime by ethnic and racial background are not only supported by police data collected by the FBI, they are also buttressed by the Department of Justice’s statistics division which does large scale surveys of tens of thousands of households annually and those numbers show a very close correlation between police stats collected by the FBI and said surveys. Blacks do commit violent crimes generally from six to eight times more often than whites, they also show Asian Americans commit less crimes than whites like only one-third the rate. If the government is racist towards all non white non-Christian people why would they show one race with a higher crime rate and one with a lower rate than whites? Are you seriously arguing that statistically blacks don’t have a higher rate of violent crime than whites? Show us the data then, you attempting to bring up cherry picked anecdotal evidence and claiming that all large scale collected crime data is bogus is a non-starter, because if the data did support your assertions you wouldn’t be poo-pooing it, if the BJS surveys conflicted with the FBI data you would be touting that has supporting your assertion that the criminal justice system is biased, only the data are not in conflict, so you just claim without evidence that all the data is biased and untrustworthy because it doesn’t support your preconceived ideological worldview.

    You also haven’t refuted anything Fred Reed said regarding the physical differences between men and women, do you deny the differences? Are they as imaginary as you think the crime reports are? If so why don’t women compete against men in any Olympic sport? any amateur or professional team sport? any individual one-on-one sport like boxing, tennis, even golf which seemingly doesn’t require huge strength or stamina requirements? Women don’t even compete with men at bowling or billiards, which is hardly the decathlon in track and field or the 400m individual medley in swimming.

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
  36. all this discussion over these “inconvenient” truths. Yes, all true. But why has this come to pass? These things you speak of represent radical change from what it was a few decades ago.

    So why did it happen?

    And more importantly, why am I the only person (in the world?!) asking this question?

    Things happen for reasons in this universe. What are the forces that caused this to happen?

    It is “impolite” to even notice these things in “polite” society. The media ignores these things. Hollywood pretends that there are strong women.
    The Dissident Right notices and points out these inconvenient truths. But the Dissident Right seems to have a taboo about asking why.

    Why ask why? Because that is how things advance. If scientists never asked why, there would no science.

    Asking why brings understanding. You discuss these things. But you do not appear to want understanding. Curious.

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
  37. Max Payne says:

    We need more bodies for Future Campaign: Iran god damn it! The occupation force for that needs to be three times larger than Iraq’s. Stop interfering with that!

  38. orly says:

    “Having men of low social class in authority over young women inevitably results in rape or behavior close to it, usually by black men”

    oh fred, you never fail to disappoint.

  39. AG says:

    Men can be sacrificed without much loss for next generation as long as a few survivors are enought to impregnate all fertile females (not a moral judgment here). So males are traditionally risk takers, cannon fodders for good reason. Over millions years evolution, males are willing sacrificing every thing including their life for their duty. A strong sense of duty over anything else is developed for male. Sense of duty is highly honored male character. When they work, they likely to devote every thing for the job.

    On the other hand, fertile females are valuable resource for keeping next generation stable. Sacrificing fertile females is self-defeating for any population. Strong sense of duty over their own life are not good for female to have if the population do not seek self-destruction. Over long time, females do not have strong sense of duty over their life or family. Their family is importatnt over anything else. Every thing is nature for the good of species.

    Well, if you are running a company or army which demand strong sense of duty over one’s life or family, you know the choice.

    If you are looking for some one who are willing to die for their jobs, then males.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  40. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Men can be sacrificed without much loss for next generation as long as a few survivors are enought to impregnate all fertile female

    That’s been claimed a lot of times over the years but is probably untrue. It assumes all men are exactly the same and interchangeable. The quality of those who get killed is different from those who stay behind. A large catastrophic wipeout of young men ages 18-35 as occurred in both world wars has to shift the gene pool in one direction or another.

    • Replies: @AG
    , @Stan D Mute
    , @AG
  41. AG says:


    This movie made by producer who is Chinese version of Oliver Stone explains a lot about what going on in a war. Movie is based loosely on real story. There is a lot of going on in a war.

    Foot soldiers: We are all descenants of winners or survivors. We have winner bias which motivated us to join the fight or war. In the movie, individual soldier (volunter army) is motivated to advance his social class through record of battles or war. As volunteer soldier, it is critical to join the winning side. To figure out winnning side at end is quite mentally demanding, and a gamble also. Evan died in the war, a status of martyrs is only available for winning side, which benefits your surviving family members as shown in the movie. Smarter ones are more likely to join the winning side than the dumb ones.

    Sense of duty: The main character is pretty brave with strong sense of duty as shown in the movie. But he ordered killing and robbing of POWs, which is violation of discipline and duty. He and his men were ordered into basically suicidal mission in next phase. In other words, other companies with even stronger sense of the duty and disciplines were saved from such suicidal job. The net result is that more discplined or obedient troops survived. The war is selection for more disciplined or obedient people. Certainly cowardice is direct violation of sense of duty and faced certainly death as shown that military teacher facing death penalty and waiting his excecution. Only when he died as matyr later, the death worths something good.

    Math and IQ: Entire movie show that war is like running business. Using minimum cost to achieve larger gain present in the entire story. The commanding officer ordered this severely crippled company with discipline problem into suicidal mission by lying. His goal is for the benefit of whole regiment by using minimum cost and also rid of trouble makers. Later in Korean War, an army cook trade his life for more valuable officer one base on who is more valuable in the situation.

    Truth: what is truth any way in war? No body can prove the character’s story after every body perished. No body can verified that he did not surrender when he was the last man standing. The very fact of his humble origin might be the cause for his lack of discipline and doomed his own life. Though sympathetic to his life, but reality is always putting people like him to the miserable ending.

    To answer your question, war is very good filter to select for IQ, sense of duty, or discipline. In ancient China, military service was best and quickest way to advance your social class. In Qin dynasty, social class and rank was advanced based on number enemy heads a sodier can harvest. At higher rank, your advanced is based on how many enemy heads harvested by your commanding unit. In Qin dyansty court, a lot of legal cases were dispute over enemy head’s belonging among soldiers. There were even case of soldier murdering each other for enemy head which is the ticket to wealthy life. A pretty mericratic system for selection of bravery, sense of duty and intelligence.

    • Replies: @Sean
  42. AG says:

    Regarding Qin kingdom mericratic system: Its army open for all people and ethnicity. There were even a lot of people from hostile kingdoms who joined the Qin army to fight their own people. So much patriotism huh? They were all patriotic to the wealth for sure.

  43. Sean says:

    “In ancient China, military service was best and quickest way to advance your social class.”

    Not according to what have read. Ambitious Chinese aspired to be scholars not soldiers, and being packed off to be a soldier was seen as a punishment.

    • Replies: @AG
  44. @Parker H. French

    I strongly second this. Fred? You reading? I know you’ve got another book in you. And this is something marketable to every soldier, ex-soldier, and military aficionado worldwide.

  45. @Unladen Swallow

    Sadly, I have read enough of this guy’s comments to know that presenting reality in refutation of his silliness is pointless. Thankfully, Unz now has the “ignore” feature for comments and it’s easy enough to just type in his name before reading the thread. It would be better if that “ignore” included replies to his silly comments, but for now its a vast improvement anyway.

  46. @leftist conservative

    I think everyone asks “why?”

    The answer is the same as the story of America for the 20th Century. The wreckers. And why now the military? Because that’s been the last stronghold of reality. It’s the ONLY place in America allowed to use IQ tests. It’s the ONLY place allowed to impose stringent physical tests (even fire departments have fallen). With the military under this ruined and false “reality” the victory of the wreckers is complete.

    • Replies: @leftist conservative
  47. markflag says:

    Transgendered? Do you mean transexuals who do unimaginable physical and endocrine violence to their bodies?

    • Replies: @jimbojones
  48. @Anonymous

    Does it? How about the baby boom? Wasn’t that the result of so many soldiers returning and multiplying? Not all the guys are killed. The ones who come home still breed.

    The many many wars of Europe prior to WW’s I &II left enough war ready men to have the “big one’s”.

    I’ve wondered about your question/thesis, but I don’t know how you could test or prove it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  49. @Stan D Mute

    Stan D Mute says:
    January 29, 2015 at 6:48 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @leftist conservative
    I think everyone asks “why?”

    ok, show where the Dissident Right asks why.

    The answer is the same as the story of America for the 20th Century. The wreckers. And why now the military? Because that’s been the last stronghold of reality. It’s the ONLY place in America allowed to use IQ tests. It’s the ONLY place allowed to impose stringent physical tests (even fire departments have fallen). With the military under this ruined and false “reality” the victory of the wreckers is complete.

    All you are doing is pointing more observations about the changes. I thought it was perfectly clear that I agree with what the Dissident Right is saying. But again and again and again and again I read the very same observations on Dissident Right sites. And no one asks “why”.

    I ask again—why do Dissident Right sites not ask why?

  50. elmer says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    Hi Ronald. I was in the Army many years ago. 100% of the sexual assaults on my post were perpetrated by blacks. You can read about it in my Spearhead essay “Pentagon Sex Report Fuels Media Rape Fantasies”. But the rape assault data collectors do not publish race statistics as that would be uncomfortable for the female senators who are promoting their careers on the alleged prevalence of military rape culture.

    As for your link to Lt. Col. Jeff Krusinski. He was acquitted.

  51. AG says:


    To further answer your question, just look at aftermath of world war 2.

    Nazi officers life with real strategy skill (military planing skill-a math/visual skill) or engineer skill (math or visual skill) were almost all spared and later served in either Nato or Warsaw pact. They contributed both greatly to both US and Soviet during cold war. Almost all political officers (verbal guys) were excuted or in long prison term. For Japanese POW, the similar fate happened in China. All skilled Japanese officers (math guys) were recruited into Chinese armies or Inudstries. Verbal Japanese politicians were executed as War criminals. Natural selection in human favors math or visual spacial intelligence.

    Even for Genghis Khan, a well-kwown mass murder or genocider, he spare the skilled people’s life who demonstrated above average intelligence. Yes, if you have skill other people do not have, he let you live.

    The best way to save your life in war is to have smart brain. Even your enemy want to capture you alive.

    Most of human history is selecting for smart ones.

  52. @markflag

    I mean men pretending to be women.

  53. AG says:

    Yes, in Song dynasty especially.

    But Qin dynasty was not. Qin kingdom got rid of traditional feudal classes. Any social position had to be earned through enemy heads. So people with noble background really hated Qin kingdom.

    This might explain weak Song dynasty comparing to Qin or Han or Tang which honored military service.

  54. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Stan D Mute

    I’ve wondered about your question/thesis, but I don’t know how you could test or prove it.

    It would be hard to prove. I’ve read in the past that in the aftermath of WWI the average height of French males went down as a result of a genetic shift that occurred. Other things I’ve read denied this took place. Out of a population of nearly 40 million in 1914 1.4 million men died in the war and 3.2 million were wounded, many of them being permanently disabled. It seems that it would have some sort of genetic impact but at this point it’s in the realm of speculation.

  55. Art says:

    The good order of the US military will be destroyed not by women, but by homosexuals. It is not the individual gay in the fox hole that is the problem – it is that the NCO and officer ranks will be taken over by gays. In 15 years it will be a fata complete.

  56. Women in the military is a disaster. (In my three years in the Army (1987-90), I saw one and only one decent female soldier–and she went on to become the NCO facility engineer of the Pentagon, not a combat role in any stretch of the imagination.)

    Operationally, it’s a joke. Civilizationally, it’s a postscript on our collective suicide note.

    As a practical matter, though, if we have to have them, I say bring back the auxiliary services: the WACs, the WAVES, the SPARS, the WASPs, etc. The women can do their thing and not really interfere with the real military.

  57. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website

    Mr. West will certainly find this information inconvenient.

    An obvious problem in this case is that ‘white’ curiously includes Hispanic, Middle Eastern, North African, Trans-Caucasus, those are not what are generally considered ‘white’ in today’s society. And the percentage of backs & whites in the population total must be considered as well.
    Yet regardless of this deliberate distortion, blacks still are the principal rapists.
    The undistorted, true numbers that show blacks as the principal rapists vs. whites (European) are simply staggering.

    “And yes, everyone`s suspicions about rape are correct: Every year there are about 15,000 black-on-white rapes but fewer than 900 white-on-black rapes. There are more than 3,000 gang rapes of whites by blacks—but white-on-black gang rapes are so rare they do not even show up in the statistics.” And that is not taking percentage of population into account.
    ““[i]n the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man. What this means is that every day in the United States, over one hundred white women are raped or sexually assaulted by a black man.” [The Truth of Interracial Rape in the United States May 03, 2007]”

  58. I’m all for equality. But, realistically, women are much weaker than men. They are worse than useless in combat. They can’t be trusted. They will cut and run. They will not hold a position if it means getting killed. Feminists can howl, but they themselves count on men for protection. Hand to hand with a bayonet. Are you kidding me? Islam is coming. They behead women in combat. The Kurdish women aren’t weakened by feminism.

  59. I feel that I need to add to my comment. Women in combat is a disaster. What will happen is that the weak get short fused or some other type of accident. The reason is that the woman is a fatal weakness. Everyone in the squad knows she can’t pull her weight. It can be as simple as letting her wander into a minefield. Brutal, but that’s the way it is. Like using the new guy to flush out a sniper. We are headed for a civil war, or worse here. Can you imagine a feminist fighting off an Islamic beheading group? Would you fight for her? When she represents the theft of men’s civil rights?

    • Replies: @jay
    , @Anonymous
    , @SFG
  60. Cato says:
    @Sean T

    ‘Life in America is like watching a movie. You have to cultivate a “suspension of disbelief.”’

    C’est vrai!

  61. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Ronald Thomas West

    …oh, well, I guess if you’ve got a couple news links and all, any real world experience must be nonsense. I did 20 years, worked alongside every branch at some point, and spent plenty of time overseas. As for these brave Syrian women (or whatever), you can barely believe anything those dune-dwellers say when youre standing right next to them. But pitching as fact some story filtered through Amerikan Pravda, you should be wearing a sign.
    As for his “racist” remark, he’s being kind here. The US military, especially the US Army, has become a welfare hood rat playground where every ghetto stereotype is on display at all hours around the world. I’ve seen colored soldiers IN COMBAT ZONES just decide not to go to work because they don’t like their MOS. Theres nothing anyone can do, one misstep and the race card comes out.

  62. Jimmu says:

    Shame on you for saying lower class men are more likely to engage in sexual misconduct. Disgusting.

  63. […] тоже хотелось бе послушать, вроде, здесь есть таких. Women in the Military: Fiat Equality – The Unz Review […]

  64. Markus says:

    Bet this is another area (like “homeland security”) were we can assume the Israelis have figured everything out already.

  65. jay says:

    Whats your opinion on Kurdish Warrior Women in the YPJ PKK and the peshmerga. They don’t seem to be doing bad against Daesh (ISIL).

  66. jay says:

    We have examples of feminist Kurdish women fighting ISIL they don’t seem to be doing half bad.

    • Replies: @lonestarwhacko
  67. @jay

    First off…..they aren’t feminists. Second, if they are captured, they are raped repeatedly and beheaded. Fact is they are trapped and have to fight like rats. American females don’t begin to compare. You see, American women are worthless as soldiers. Fact. A few perform well, they are outliers. They can’t fight. No upper body strength. They literally cannot throw a grenade far enough to escape the shrapnel. Mentally, they are literally unfit. Those Kurdish women have been fighting all their lives. That’s what they know. Women cannot be trusted to stand and fight. They panic and bug out. If they’re reported, they have a false rape defense. Worthless. What happens will happen in combat is the deadwood gets cut out. Funny how that works. Combat is extremely dangerous in the best of Circumstances. A good squad will not tolerate such a risk. It gets people killed. That’s part of what civilians are never told about. Worthless men are treated exactly the same way.

    • Replies: @jay
  68. jay says:

    I disagree:
    Consider this article:
    Female fighters: We won’t stand for male dominance

    “We want to set an example for (both) the Middle East and the West. We want gender equality for all,” said one of the six other women in Arin’s unit who all live in the same, small apartment. ”

    Kurdish media reports:
    Kurdish female fighters battle for freedom and equality in Syrian Kurdistan

    And this:
    ”The battle for Kobani has also begun to reveal to the world that in Rojava, or Western Kurdistan in northern Syria, Kurds have created a cantonal democratic autonomous zone. Kobani is one of three such cantons along with Afrin and Cezire. The international community is learning that Rojava is the only enclave in the entire Middle East that practices what democracies preach – gender equality (women must have at least 40% of official positions in the three cantons), ”

    I agree with the rest of your comment.

  69. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    More likely, the woman or women in the unit will try to make it worth the while of the strongest male soldiers in the unit to protect them. This will make the less macho soldiers in the unit jealous, destroying internal cohesion. One can imagine the disasters that may follow.

  70. SFG says:

    I’d have to, because the Islamic group would cut my head off too. We’ve seen they’ll kill you even if you convert.

    The temptation to let her get captured would, of course, be very strong. But an interfaith beheading of the feminist…naah, just fantasy.

  71. […] is empirical evidence that the vast bulk of even highly motivated women in the military simply cannot perform at anything close to their male […]

  72. @Anon

    I concur entirely.
    Let all American women be subject to the draft.
    Draft them with no excuses accepted.
    If they avoid the draft, let them be imprisoned.
    Let American women fight until they have racked up at least two million KIA.
    If they turn up pregnant, let the military engineer flak vests that will accomodate their condition.
    If they malinger, let them be punished.
    If they desert, let them be shot.
    They say they want equality.
    Let them have it…….with a bullet.

    • Replies: @dcite
  73. @Drogger

    The salutary result of drafting women and using them in combat, against their will if neccessary, is that American women need to be bitch slapped back into reality.
    They delude themselves that they are equal to men.
    Let them prove it.

  74. dcite says:
    @Deguello Morte

    I guess the judge, jury, and executioners would also have to be female, to even the scores.

  75. Concerning the YPJ (YPG female militias)

    First: They are an all female unit. No males. This is not because they are feminists (they are Marxist Feminists, but generally more red army style crimson then pink) or hate men but because they are pragmatists. For the record, inserting a single male into an all female unit does not do wonders for discipline or unit cohesion either. If you do go with women in all combat roles, go all female. Btw. YPJ is completely unmarried. If you marry you go out.

    Second: They are predominantly rural, likely grew up on a farm. They would typically have spent considerable amounts of their lifes doing pretty hard physical labor. This does set them apart from American women.

    Third: DAESH is apperantly terrified of getting killed by women. This offers some additional usability, YPJ generally fights in tandem with other Kurdish forces, and generally reduces the morale of DAESH forces fighting them. Even if YPJ only makes up a fraction of the Kurdish forces of a given battlefield, DAESH would only know that they are there, but not how many and where. Since DAESH believes that people shot by women go to hell, the possible presence of YPJ also opens the possibility that DAESH troops may chicken out of an attack since “I would totally charge this position, but if there are women there we could go to hell! Please transfer me to the front fighting others!”.

    Fourth: Somehow like early germanic tribes, Kurdish males fight a lot better if they know that not only their superiors, but also marriagable prestigious females are watching them. Not only does YPJ reduce DAESH morale, they improve general YPG morale and make them fight harder.

    Fifth: YPJ will never surrender to DAESH, if YPJ is arround, other Kurdish units are incredibly unlikely to surrender to DAESH because the shame from that would be too great.

    Sixth: YPJ presents a usefull public interface between the Kurds and the west (and also Russia, because some YPJ traditions strongly resonate with Russians due to similiar experiences in WW2), without YPJ, the Kurds would get bombed openly by Nato/Turkey, because of YPG associated improved Kurdish PR, Turkey currently cant go completely “bomb the Kurds crazy”.

    Seventh: There arent exactly a lof of Syrian Kurds, so they do have a manpower restraint.

    Eigth: YPJ does not have heavy weapons, basic equipment is a Kalashnikov, 30-60 rounds, there may be some communication equipment at the company level. As far as training, said training takes about a month. They are “voluntary gunmen” not soldiers (still better then unvoluntary gunmen), this is not to disparage them, but they are very very cheap in terms of invested effort. For the Kurds it is not a question if they want a male or a female military, they have a possibility to get both (and again, YPJ is very cheap on the YPG budget), and their somewhat unique circumstances make female units far more effective then usual.

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