The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewFred Reed Archive
Notes from the Drains
What Cops Really Do
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information


Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

See Fred Reed’s Cop Columns – From a Police Reporter’s Notebook

The police are out of control all across the country. They can kick in your door at three a.m., shoot your dog, and handcuff your daughters, and you have no recourse. All of this happens with the explicit, intentional help of the federal government. There is nothing to be said for them, police or government.

That having been noted, it might be interesting to look at the world as seen by a normal cop from before the budding of the dictatorship.

To that end, let us suppose that you, the reader, are an average white cop in, say, Washington, DC. Let us further agree that you are not swatted-out, do not have ninja fantasies. You are not evil and do not want to hurt anyone. Evil cops exist, but you are not one of them. You are just a real cop in the real city—not the city as imagined by the humid orchids who write editorials at the New York Times.

How will the world seem to you, a new cop just out of the Academy?

First, you will quickly find that the public doesn’t like you. People do not like being told what to do. They particularly do not like being punished—e.g., given a ticket—for misbehavior. Successful people of middle age do not take well to orders from a kid of twenty. They have no choice.

Next, you discover that being a cop affects your social life. People are nervous around you even when you are not in uniform. When and where does your authority stop? They aren’t sure. You probably are not either. What if someone at a party lights up a joint? Your neighbor parks in front of a fire plug? Your off-duty life comes to consist mostly of other cops. It is more comfortable that way.

Just as the public doesn’t like you, you will not much like the public. Cops do not see humanity at its best. The young woman hiking her skirt up at traffic stops.

Couples screaming obscenities at each other on domestic-violence calls. “Why don’t you catch real criminals?” The lies. The excuses. The lame attempts at manipulation. The threats (“I know the mayor.”)

As a real cop on real streets, you learn never to smile, to maintain an implied aggressiveness. When riding with a reporter, you will joke and tell stories. With the public, you will learn to be wooden-faced and authoritarian. You can’t lose your dominance or you are useless.

A few months on the streets will take the bloom off your dewy rose of morn. You will see the baby’s brains on the windshield. You will see the paramedics at the crash scene working hard on the guy who went through the windshield, pumping his chest, trying to intubate him with red gunch pouring from his mouth and no hope at all. You will find a guy lying on the sidewalk with his brains swelling like pink lips from the groove made by a nine-millimeter round, still breathing but with nowhere to go.

After a few scenes like this, you will learn to turn off. It will cease to bother you because if it didn’t, you would go crazy. And then you will wonder whether there is something wrong with you.

You will learn things that you don’t want to learn. You learn that “immersion cuffs” are the sharp pink demarcations that occur when a ghetto mother, tired of her three-year-old’s crying, shoves her wrists into a pan of boiling water. Your colleagues will tell you of the young child found dead in a dumpster, thirty pounds underweight for her age, after her parents kept her bound and gagged in a closet, barely feeding her until she starved.

As a fresh new cop, you will see learn much. You may not know that a kid, burned to death in a fire caused because a slum lord ignored the fire code, looks pink like a baked ham and his guts explode with the expansion of intestinal gases.

As a reporter, I saw all of these things. Not similar things, but exactly these. They are not imaginary. They will change your attitude toward humanity. It won’t make you better company.

And nobody but another cop, or someone in the street trades—police, fire, ambulance–will understand. Your wife won’t, and this won’t improve the marriage. Divorce rates are high among cops.

With time, your views on police brutality will become ambivalent, or not ambivalent. You will see the pretty blonde rape victim, fifteen, about due for her first prom, screaming and screaming and screaming, sobbing and choking, while the med tech tries to get a sedative into her arm. And you will hear the cop next to you, hand clenching hard on his night stick, say in cold fury, “I hope the sonofabitch resists arrest.” Yeah, you may find yourself thinking, yeah. Social theories are nice. The streets are not theoretical.

And you will find that the perps are almost always black. If you are a good liberal, you won’t like this, but after three months on the street you will not have the faintest doubt. If you are a suburban conservative out of Reader’s Digest, you will be surprised at the starkness of the racial delineation.

All cops know this. They know better than to say it. This can be tricky for black cops, especially if former military who believe in law and order.

You will find that there are white cops who knock blacks around, who humiliate them. You will think it wrong, and so will many of your fellows, but you will decide not to turn them in. You have twenty more years on the streets with them. You will discover that black cops exist who also mistreat blacks, and this will confuse you.

You will find yourself contributing to bad race relations by enforcing laws you think stupid, pointless and unwise—hassling blacks for drinking a beer on the sidewalk with friends, rolling dice for quarters on the hood of a car, or smoking a joint. Never mind that a black city government made the laws.

Depending on your background when you, the reader, suddenly became a cop, you may or may not have some grasp of how guns work in the city. To begin with (if you think about it at all) you will realize that cops are not very competent with guns. In an entire career most will never fire their weapons on duty. To be good with a pistol requires hours and hours on the range and thousands of rounds. These cost money. Departments have higher priorities. Competent tactical shooting requires much more training. You won’t get it.

As a fresh cop, you will notice that the standard editorial notion, that cops are heavily armed brutes amid a helpless unarmed populations, isn’t quite accurate. When you are on the sidewalks of a bad neighborhood, where you know you are disliked by all and hated by many, you will become aware of your vulnerability. You have to pass close to people. Any of them could blow your head off from behind, stick an ice pick in your back, or brain you with a piece of rebar.

The second thing to know about the police and guns (though it sounds unrelated) is something you will hear often from your new colleagues: “I’m going home tonight.” This does not mean, “I’m going home instead of to the bar with buddies.” It means, “If some dirtball threatens my life, or credibly seems to be doing so, I will blow his sorry ass away before I’ll let my wife have to explain to the kids why Daddy is never coming home again.”

Ah, but how do you know when your life is in danger? Therein lies the rub. In a good department, you will get shoot-no-shoot training. It will surprise you. You stand in front of a very large screen, your weapon holstered. On the screen (for example) appears in video exactly what you would see responding to an armed-robbery call at a small store. A woman, the proprietor’s wife, frantically accosts you. “He robbed us! He has a gun! He went into the alley.” Gun in hand, you run down the alley, scared and breathing hard. A man with a gun turns the corner, gun in shooting position. You fire. You just killed the proprietor who also was chasing the perp with his own gun.

Back on the real street. A 250-pound guy crazy on PCP charges you with the clear intention of doing you harm. How much harm? He could kill you. It isn’t part of your job description to find out. You don’t have time in three seconds to try pepper-spray (which doesn’t work well on PCP heads anyway) or send for a Taser, or shout, “Halt in the name of the law, oh evil emissary of the forces of chaos!”

Bang. Maybe he was just going to give you a hug and a kiss.

Or you are in your new cruiser and get a robbery-in-progress call to a Seven-Eleven. You respond, that being what police are for. The perp—you will call them “perps” by now—runs down an alley and you follow him on foot, gun in hand. At least, if it isn’t in your hand, you are an idiot.

You are panting, pumped up on adrenaline, can’t see well in the dim light of the alley—and the perp turns with something black in his hand.

If you shoot, and the object turns out to be a cell phone, “White cop shoots unarmed teen.” If you don’t shoot, and it turns out to be a gun, your wife gets to explain why daddy isn’t’ coming back. Ever.

Cops understand this. Delicate Ivy flowers in the peat moss of the Washington Post do not.

Let’s drop the “You are a cop” narrative. Instead, let’s try an experiment. In your living room, no adrenaline, no darkness, no danger, I will turn my back on you, holding in front of me in one hand a Day-Glo yellow plastuc banana and, in the other, a realistic plastic pistol. You, in calm, perfectly safe circumstances, will point a “pistol” at me. Your finger will do fine. I will turn as fast as I can with one or the other in my hand. You have to shoot or not.

You will find, no matter how many times we try the experiment, that I can turn and fire (if I turn with the gun) before you can decide whether I have a gun or a Day-Glo banana. Try it in a dark alley.

Nuff said.

(Republished from Fred on Everything by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Blacks, Police State, Race/Crime 
Hide 81 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Bliss says:

    And you will find that the perps are almost always black.

    There you go again. If the perps are almost always black, why are prison inmates more than 60% non-black?

    You will find that there are white cops who knock blacks around, who humiliate them. You will think it wrong, and so will many of your fellows, but you will decide not to turn them in

    And how is that not a big part of the problem?

  2. @Bliss

    Whites as a percent of US population — 77.7%
    Blacks as a percent of US population — 13.3%

    Therefore, simple predictive validity of statistics would suggest white incarceration should exceed that of blacks by a factor of 5.8.

    In fact, rates per 100,000 of actual prison populations equals:

    Whites — 0.38%
    Blacks — 2.2%

    That is, as a rate, black incarceration is 5.7 times higher than that of whites.

  3. Rich says:

    Wow, Fred hits another one out of the park. I think that’s why people need to slow down on lynching the cop in Ferguson and wait until all the facts are out. Most of the news media wants a riot so they can up their ratings and most liberals want this to be a case of a psychopathic cop so they can feel like they’re in Selma back in 1965, just like their favorite professor claimed he was.

  4. I wonder what is the ratio for police officers of time spend in sensitivity training vs time spent in tactical training?

  5. Oldeguy says:

    Fred’s Police experience was in DC: finding ” that the perps are almost always Black” was almost certainly a simple statement of fact. Oftentimes in American history, the first American born generation of immigrant’s children will show disproportionate criminal activity: first Irish, then German, Eastern European Jewish, Italian, Czechoslovak, you name it-then it subsides. That’s what makes me more hopeful concerning our current flood of “Hispanic” immigration. It’s a mixed bag but so was everybody else. The sad history of the native born Blacks is unique and disheartening. The persistence in maladaptive behavior spans centuries and appears impervious to societal efforts at remedy. I have read jail statistics from mid 18th Century Mass. that have incarceration rates similar to those shown by Mr. Smith. To deny the unique problem of Black maladaption isn’t being fair minded, it’s being willfully blind. HBD is either true or false- how flattering or not it may be to any given group should not enter the discussion.

  6. @Oldeguy

    False dilemma there, Guy, in “HBD is either true or false”.

    Not necessarily. HBD applies to certain, even many, sets of conditions, but not all. While the data points are inarguable, that Black rates of incarceration are consistently higher, it does not merit an exclusive assignment to genetic factors.

    • Replies: @Oldeguy
  7. Oldeguy says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    Didn’t mean to imply that it did; my point ( fuzzily made, I’ll admit ) was that the persistence of a broad range of behaviors and attitudes virtually guaranteed to ensure failure in the most success friendly society in the history of Mankind would suggest “something else” going on. HBD strikes me as the most likely, and in a very real sense the least pejorative, explanation.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  8. “There you go again. If the perps are almost always black, why are prison inmates more than 60% non-black?”

    That depends on where you live and what the crime is. Also on whether the justice system is more benevolent towards black or white offenders. The prison may have some white kids who got caught with drugs, or stole something- these definitely skew the numbers given how many drug sentences are handed out, but violent crimes like murder, robbery, rape, etc, are vastly higher black per capita.

    Understanding ‘per capita’ is important here. If blacks are 13% of the population but commit 3/4 of the violent crime, and most of this is from young black males (who are an even smaller % of the population), then being ‘prejudiced’ (Goad would tell you its ‘post-judiced’ since its based on prior observation) clearly is a rational response. Sure, it may be bad and ‘unfair’ that a young, well-behaved black male is eyeballed suspiciously when he walks through a shop or a parking lot after dark, but since the observer is not omnisicient, is the inconvenience of the black male in question supposed to override concerns for his life? Or concerns for his wife losing her husband, his children losing their father?

  9. Borachio says:

    John Jeremiah Smith is right: genetic factors are one cause, but not the only cause of black problems.

    The greatest share of blame must go to whites, who have abdicated their moral responsibility to care for their black wards. (Asians could also do it, but they are new to our shores so it’s really not their job unless they choose to accept it.)

    To become their best selves, blacks need our guidance and discipline, not our indulgence of their worst and most immature traits. Denying their difference gets us off the hook. Instead of making tough decisions in loco parentis for their best interests, we let their communities deteriorate into jungles of violence and we do not challenge their laughable delusions that “they built this country” and that all of their problems result from white racism.

  10. wah wah says:

    @John Jeremiah Smith:

    > simple predictive validity of statistics would suggest white incarceration should exceed that of blacks by a factor of 5.8.

    Yes, but Fred wasn’t saying that the perps are black most of the time, /in proportion to their relative population/, but absolutely (‘most of the time’). So unless blacks commit jailless crimes more, you would expect to chase black perps at roughly the rate they appear in prison. @Bliss has a point.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  11. Oldeguy says:

    Spot on; very well put. This, I suspect, is the real reason for the persistence of “all men are created equal” and “they can just lift themselves up by their own bootstraps like everyone else did” rhetoric in the face of 150 years Post Emancipation experience which would indicate that it simply isn’t so. The alternative is a strong White Paternalism that would involve costly, burdensome, direct involvement in ensuring that the right choices are implemented in what would be frankly recognized as at least a long term and quite possibly permanently dependent population. The entire National Narrative in this area would have to change. This is, to put it mildly, extremely unlikely barring some catastrophic upheaval.

  12. @wah wah

    What Fred said is irrelevant to what Bliss said. Bliss quoted a statistic. Bliss said that 60% of jail population is white. This is true, but makes no point at all.

    Statistically, 77.7% of jail population should be white, and 13.3% of jail population should be black, i.e. the white incarceration rate, all other factors being presumed equal, should be 5.7 times the black incarceration rate.

    Such is not the case. Therefore, all other factors are not equal.

  13. @Borachio

    The greatest share of blame must go to whites, who have abdicated their moral responsibility to care for their black wards. (Asians could also do it, but they are new to our shores so it’s really not their job unless they choose to accept it.)

    Oh, please. Seriously? How much longer do whites have the “moral responsibility” to await the coming of the Civilized Black? Do you really believe that whites have a “moral responsibility” to employ the incompetent, attempt to educate the uneducable, provide free healthcare and subsistence to the shiftless and irresponsible, and to look aside as Black crime devastates cities, neighborhoods, prisons and law-enforcement?

    Perhaps you do. I do not.

    • Replies: @Oldeguy
    , @Anon
  14. @Oldeguy

    Perhaps. HBD theorists, imho, tend to pile everything onto evolutionary differences, as if that is the sole explanation (and the Holy Grail of a solution) for “race problems”).

    It isn’t. The inability of Blacks to function within a civilized environment, or in a competitive free-enterprise economic system has a multitude of contributing factors.

    What are you going to do? Declare them to be a subspecies, deny them basic human rights, categorize them as being as some spiritual, intellectual, and physical entity that is less than human?

    That’s absurd. They can function in any human society that enforces law and equal opportunity. If an individual is not equal to the opportunity, then he or she will be less successful than those who are. But, inhuman? Not on my watch.

    • Replies: @Oldeguy
  15. Fred says: • Website

    If you read the column, you will see that it deals with a cop in DC, about half black, with nearly zero crime by whites, mostly federal workers and other white-collar types. Thus the perps are black.

  16. @Oldeguy

    Was there a German crime wave? Please point me towards some reading material.

    I imagine it’d have to be horse rustling or something because my understanding is that they went almost exclusively to the frontier.

    • Replies: @Oldeguy
  17. Oldeguy says:

    Most did but Dutch Schultz found terrorizing NYC more fun. Try Wikipedia.

  18. Oldeguy says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    “from whom much has been given, much shall be required”. Put that in your Randian pipe and smoke it.

  19. Oldeguy says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    I am far from being an “HBD theorist”- Hell I only found recently what the initials meant. I’m still trying to get my aging brain around what they are saying and the evidence for it before senility closes the door. I certainly don’t believe, nor do those who I am reading claim, that EVERYTHING is genetically determined but it would appear that a LOT is genetically influenced. I suspect that functioning optimally in a European Culture society is simply more difficult and less fulfilling for American Blacks and thus the persistence of grossly maladaptive attitudes and behaviors. Western ideology exults rationality and free will as virtually sitting alone in the driver’s seat; my admittedly limited knowledge of modern Neuroscience would suggest otherwise. And where , in God’s Name, did that “inhuman” stuff come from? Next, you’ll be taking a brave stand against broiling babies.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
    , @Jim
  20. @Oldeguy

    Guy, from what I see, read and hear of HBD, it very much looks like a slick repackaging of eugenics. When you combine some element of scientific validity with the radical fringe right-wing whack-job mind, you can get some rather horrific manifestations of the savagery that lurks below the hate.

    There’s nothing wrong with science, and evolution works just fine. It’s what people do with fragmented, incoherent knowledge that draws the line between good and evil.

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
  21. BobX [AKA "Bob"] says:


    How does your 2nd generation theory hold up in New Mexico? You are aware there are quite a few generations of data to pull from. How is that convergence coming? Seemed slightly different than the Irish.

  22. Arthur says:

    Fred at his best.

  23. map says:

    “Oftentimes in American history, the first American born generation of immigrant’s children will show disproportionate criminal activity: first Irish, then German, Eastern European Jewish, Italian, Czechoslovak, you name it-then it subsides. That’s what makes me more hopeful concerning our current flood of “Hispanic” immigration. It’s a mixed bag but so was everybody else.”

    Frankly, I am getting tired of this slander. The biggest difference between the white immigrants of old and the modern imports is that whites were often the poorest (or displaced) members of far superior countries than the United States at the time. Ireland, Italy and Germany were, overall, better places than the United States, minus the economic tourism that so many of these people wanted.

    Our immigrants are the poorest people from countries far worse than the US,

    Furthermore, scummy Italians and Irish were allowed to be treated like the scum they were. Our immigrants are treated like royalty.

  24. Harold says:

    Now that the taboo against white women dating black men is seeing its last vestige shrivel away, the dynamic between blacks and whites has changed. No group is ever magnanimous towards their sexual competitors. So much for the possibility of white paternalism.

  25. MQ says:

    Fred’s experience comes from DC in the 70s/80s — a majority black city where all the whites are government workers with college degrees. So of course all the criminals were black there.

  26. anon • Disclaimer says:

    so because of blacks everyone has to live in a police state?

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    , @Bill
  27. Borachio says:

    To build a police state, a first step is to divide the population, break down the rule of law, define classes of people with special privileges (such as blacks, women, non-whites, non-Americans, non-straights), and create chaos.

    If that sounds familiar, it should.

  28. @anon

    Correct. There is no way other than via a large, centralized state to govern a society with so many people with wildly disparate, even diametrically opposed, worldviews.

    The alternative would be to de-centralize the state and allow more self-governance, in which event whites will promptly bar the gates. So that is not going to be allowed to happen.

  29. @Oldeguy

    Dutch Schultz was Jewish. Real name was Arthur Simon Flegenheimer. Born in NYC.

    • Replies: @Oldeguy
  30. Clarke says:

    Bliss is a statistics troll.

    He did the same thing on Derbyshire’s column — either doesn’t read what’s being said (like Fred’s cop being in D.C.) or ignores it so he can push his agenda.

    Hint: he doesn’t like a certain ethnic group.

    Unz needs better trolls than Bliss.

  31. Jim says:

    Essentially all human behavior has a substantial genetic component.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  32. Max Payne says: • Website

    Personally I think its the level of (in)competence required. Remember the New Yorker who scored too high on his intelligence test and was rejected to be a police officer ( )? I guess you need to be at a special level of obesity and retardation to be an officer of the law in the US……..

    Why do people never mention police in other countries?

    South Korean police have countlessly taken on armed suspects with nothing but their hands and were successful in arresting “perps” as opposed to ending their lives.

    Australia has TONS of crimes (serious crimes including some of the most barbaric human trafficking seen) and yet police-related killings are averaging to 6 a year compared to the 400 in the US. AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF VARYING RACES IN AUSTRALIA I ASSURE YOU (in case anyone wants to throw in the “they’re not as racial diverse as America” argument).

    If certain people can’t handle the responsibilities of being a PEACE officer perhaps they should consider flipping burgers instead of maintaining “order” like Saddam’s secret police….. shoot first, ask no questions later.

    Why can these foreign countries achieve such great feats in their policing efforts but not American cops? US police officers fear the day their wives have to explain to their kids why their dad is never coming home…. how about explaining how, out of a combination of cowardice and incompetence, you killed an innocent young man? Is that a proud story to tell your kids?

    Death before dishonor? No?

    • Replies: @Mike
    , @Jim
  33. Bill says:

    so because of blacks everyone has to live in a police state?

    No, we could go back to Jim Crow. Or to Bantustans. Or to any number of other possibilities. But, if we are going to have “civil rights,” then we will have either chaos or a police state.

  34. Bill says:

    Oftentimes in American history, the first American born generation of immigrant’s children will show disproportionate criminal activity: first Irish, then German, Eastern European Jewish, Italian, Czechoslovak, you name it-then it subsides. That’s what makes me more hopeful concerning our current flood of “Hispanic” immigration.

    Hispanics are not brand new immigrants to the US. Many have been here a long, long time. 2nd generation Hispanics are more crime prone than are first generation. 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Hispanics do not assimilate to white norms of behavior. They just keep dropping out of high school, mowing lawns, and engaging in petty crime.

  35. Douglas says:

    Statistically speaking this is easy because whites make up over 80% of the US population.

    The harder part for you to understand is that whites make up 60% or less of the prison population.

  36. Bill says:

    Weirdly, I did not get an opportunity to edit the previous comment. Here it is properly formatted:

    Australia has TONS of crimes (serious crimes including some of the most barbaric human trafficking seen) and yet police-related killings are averaging to 6 a year compared to the 400 in the US. AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF VARYING RACES IN AUSTRALIA I ASSURE YOU (in case anyone wants to throw in the “they’re not as racial diverse as America” argument).

    Huh? Evidence for any of this nuttiness? Australia seems to be about 90% white and 8% Asian. Australia’s homicide rate is around 1 per 100,000. The US homicide rate is about 4.5 per 100,000. Australia is not, in fact, anywhere near as “racially diverse” as the US. More importantly, what “diversity” it has is Asian.

  37. A lot of these pro-cop apologetics pieces are showing up since Ferguson, usually on right-wing sites. What a surprise. Cops have always worked for the Chamber, When was the last time you saw a cop shut down a business until a customer dispute was settled? The onus is always placed on the customer; file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, get a lawyer, etc. The Working Class knew that, up until about the end of the 60s, by which time they had bought into the myth that they were middle class, and, thus had the same problems as the wealthy. Cops are a necessary evil, but they must be controlled, and, don’t ever make the mistake of thinking a cop is your friend.

  38. Oldeguy says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    You are entirely correct. My Bad. I should have restricted my examples to Chicago contributors to America’s Rich Cultural Mosaic. Outstanding among them were the Gusenberg brothers Peter and Frank, valued members of “Bugs” Moran’s North Side Gang beverage distributorship. Peter gained lasting fame for participation in the Tommy Gun assault on Alphonse Capone’s beverage distributorship headquarters in Cicero Ill. in Sept. 1926. Peter emptied the entire drum of bullets into the establishment without hitting any of Mr. Capone’s business partners. Mr. Capone’s response to this hostile takeover bid the following St. Valentine’s Day was more successful: both brothers were killed. A fellow North Side business partner, Hymie Weiss, despite his nickname was a good Catholic boy who carried a rosary every day of his ( shortened ) life. Hope this has been helpful.

  39. Thanks much for this post. Much of the reaction to the Ferguson circus is liberal hostility to police masked as social concern. Liberals have always confused the police with the Cossacks. Having failed to radicalize the American working class, they came to hate the cops even more.

  40. Rex May says: • Website

    From media fantasy to Fred’s reality. I love it. Quoted and linked here:

  41. Max Payne says: • Website

    @Bill (I have no idea how to link comments…..sorry)

    Really? So out of all my comments that’s the one you have a problem with? What about Canada, the United Kingdom, France… actually forget France.

    Lets look at CANADA in which 20% of its population are foreign-born immigrants ( ), where as 72% of the US is white (Wikipedia: White American). So roughly 8-10% difference. I understand the US is a much larger country in terms of population but if we’re looking at percentages here….

    So Canada is diverse, especially in the major cities where the majority of crimes should be happening, and it still doesn’t come anywhere near the crazy “I kill CITIZENS because I’m too incompetent/cowardly to do REAL policing” police attitude American police seem to be imbued with; the one officer who gunned down a kid (in Toronto) holding a knife on a street-car was probably one of the only few cold-blooded killings by Canadian officer.

    I understand the US has a larger population but it isn’t any less diverse than Canada. What evidence of police brutality seen in Canada is almost always LINKED with US training programs ( )

    I don’t care about race when it comes to policing. I don’t care if police are militarized or not (see China and its military police for Christ sake!).

    I do care about the fact a police officer, instead of representing the law and being a member of the community, cares more for his own skin. That’s the REAL problem. I get that a police officer is human too but he CHOSE to serve and protect the community. Did all the good men and women who used to want to be police officers die off? The ones who were willing to lay down their lives for their comrades, their community, and for the law? If police departments can’t find people that can do that….well then….I don’t know what else to say….

    My argument stands, police departments all over the US don’t seem to want competent officers but ruthless brutes who are either mentally or emotionally too weak to stand up to INJUSTICE.

  42. Sunbeam says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    Sure, sure.

    That’s a nice sentiment. But do some reading and thinking.

    I’ve got a question for you:

    Tell me what the Eugenicists were wrong about theoretically. Why wouldn’t it have worked? Actually since in some countries it was practiced to some extent in the early 1900’s, well did it work?

    I guess you are a fly by poster, or just trolling.

    But geez, where to start?

    I guess maybe you ought to explain to me how the vastly different selection pressures faced by various isolated populations led to exactly the same potential for IQ.

    Then you ought to explain something else. No one bats an eyelash if you say personality traits can be inherited.

    But somehow evolution responding to social selection pressure didn’t produce populations with common personality traits.

    Come on. You can strike the pose all you want, claim to be educated and other ignorant, but in the end what you have just said is not just wrong, it’s ludicrous.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    US police officers fear the day their wives have to explain to their kids why their dad is never coming home

    Do construction laborers have such a worry? They die at almost an 8 to 1 rate. Do commercial fishers worry? They die at 6 times the rate of cops. Roofers die more often. Garbage men die more often. When’s the last article you wrote Fred, singing the praises of your local power company lineman (who die at three time the rate of police)?

    Need I go on, Fred? The idea that the police have a uniquely dangerous position in America is a myth. Police however, do have a uniquely powerful position in America. Roofers can’t shoot you and be exonerated after an internal “investigation”. Garbage men don’t get to invoke Garrity when they commit a crime.

    Your theoretical banana vs. gun story is cute. But aren’t police supposed to… I don’t know, protect and serve the citizenry? And doesn’t that protection cover giving their life, if need be? You can’t praise the police for willing to do a dangerous job and at the same time forgive them for not putting themselves in danger.

    • Replies: @rod1963
  44. Priss Factor [AKA "Skyislander"] says: • Website

    Instead of urging Liberal college students to become teachers in black schools, recommend police work for them. Tell that that policing with ‘progressive love’ will make black problems go away.

  45. Mike says:
    @Max Payne

    As an Australian and a long time US resident I am in a very good position to answer the assertion that Australian and US police face a similar dynamic.

    The idea is so wrong it is hard to know where to begin. I’ll keep it simple: In Australia there are VERY few areas where it is genuinely a bad idea for someone like me to go at night (six foot, athletic, male). In the US there are ENDLESS areas where it is very unwise of me to visit at nighttime.

    I have direct family members in Australia who are police officers so I have heard all the drunken “secret” police conversations where they say what is actually on their mind. Australia is probably one of the most relaxed countries on earth to do the job in. Their exciting stories are not that interesting.

    Most US police officers are very well trained. I have had several less than desirable encounters with the police but overall they do a good job. Your obesity comment is very divorced from the reality of most US officers – they tend towards hyper athleticism these days.

    I would love to see your personal reaction to getting punched in the face by 6’3″, 300 pound “innocent young man” you are presumably referring to.

  46. Jim says:
    @Max Payne

    I don’t know much about South Korean police but from what I’ve heard about the police in Japan you definitely don’t want to mess with them.

  47. Jim says:

    Dutch Schultz was Jewish, born Arthur Flegenheimer.

    • Replies: @Oldeguy
  48. Oldeguy says:

    See comment # 39 above.

  49. 2Degrees says:

    In Washington DC, the perps will almost always be black.

    How can the PC be so blind? Let me explain.

    This is how it works in li’l ol’ New Zealand, but it’s basically the same everywhere. In lily white Southland there is plenty of crime mostly related to the unfortunate popularity of binge drinking. All the perps are white, because everybody is white.

    As you head north, the proportion of the pcopulation that is brown rises as does the crime rate. So crime in Paihia is almost entirely Polynesian. This does not alter the fat that the great majority of Maori/Polynesians are not criminals.

    Whites and Asians commit crime. Whites get drunk and Asians commit fraud, but not at the rate that Polynesians commit crime.

    You get more sense from Maori on this subject than a PC white liberal. John Tamahere, a very good Maori politician, said he dreaded reading the crime reports in the NZ Herald because so many of the perps hailed from his own demographic.

    And the police force is the one profession in NZ where Maori are not under-represented.

  50. @Oldeguy

    Pssht, Dutch Shultz? Really?

    Yet another Jewish gangster from the prohibition era. We all know there were lots of those.

    No really, show me a German American crime wave in the 19th century when they were migrating en masse. I don’t believe there was one.

    • Replies: @Oldeguy
  51. I was editing that post after reading the thread.

    Ron, the timer should stop counting down after you’ve indicated that you intend to edit.

    Anyway, the Gusenberg bros were not a part of a german immigrant crime wave. They were prohibition era gangsters from long long after the germans had been blended into the protestantized core of america. When they were newcomers(1770s-1880s roughly?), they almost all went to the frontier, broke land etc. This left them little time for crime. Perhaps we should replicate that experience for our current batch of immigrants.

  52. @Sunbeam

    Few comments could illustrate my point as well as yours did.


    • Replies: @Sunbeam
  53. Tim says:

    Fred’s numbers and stories are true, but the root cause is not mentioned in this article.

    Blacks, more than any other group, have been the guinea pigs for all sorts of social engineering projects, with the end result being much fewer opportunities and hampered growth. When the public schools became experimenting with “look-say” reading and getting rid of phonics, blacks were hit first, with an immediate decline in literacy rates and school performance.

    From welfare, to the war on drugs, all those destructive social policies got started and tested on blacks, but as Charles Murray’s later books have shown, the white population is catching up. The high rate of anti-depressant drugs in school children will effect how the pathology expresses itself, but it will express itself vigorously, nonetheless.

    Combine centrally planned economic policies that reduce entry-level opportunities with centrally planned social policies that break up families, reduce literacy, etc, and you are going to get a hyperactive underclass that expends its energy in criminal sectors.

    Take the prison-industrial-political complex. When you have state politicians in NY admitting that without the local prison, her town would be economically viable, we are seeing a systemic problem . By economically viable, she really meant “we won’t have an excuse to be a ward of taxpayers”. The prisoners are just an excuse to justify the overtime for prison guards, and contracts for all the companies that service the facilities paid for with taxes. Same functions unneeded military bases serve, where they are kept open just to launder political kickbacks.

    Am I supposed to take seriously insinuations about the lower moral fiber of black people when I can easily read about the above?

    Or take all the recent work done on researching the hidden subsidies of the suburban lifestyle. There are whole cities where the per-capita income is less than the per-capita maintenance costs of just type of infrastructure, such as sewage. This is absurd. But this is the fabric of our society. The inevitable breakdowns have to show up somewhere, and for various reasons, the black population serves as the first quarter slice of the warning gauge.

    Fred knows DC well. When you see all those fancy new buildings at Tyson’s corners and all the corporate welfare given out to defense and intelligence contractors, are we really surprised that major problems show up in other areas of the population? hundreds of thousands of people getting paid upper-middle class wages to do effectively nothing. It would be cheaper and better for us to just pay them to stay on vacation than pretending to be contributing members of our defense infrastructure.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    , @Anon
  54. rod1963 says:

    You’re joking right? I take it you’re a office worker and the worst thing you deal with is a stapler misfire.

    I used to be a high voltage electrician – working in a dirty industrial setting on the sort of stuff that can kill you if you’re not careful. It was hard ass work to say the least, try working doing your on a 300ft tower at night. Other hazards included black lung, silicosis among others.

    But it’s not the same as dealing with human filth all day, the sort of people I go out of my way to avoid.

    The thing is you really can’t compare what a beat cop working the bad part of town does compared to workers in dangerous industrial occupations. First off workers aren’t dealing with drunks, drug addicts, the unpredictable, you don’t worry about being shot, stabbed or punched. Nor are you hated by everyone. You aren’t seeing rape and beating victims, the druggie that overdosed or the dead homeless dude.

    Far different stressors than being a worker bee. I’ll take being a worker bee any day over being a cop.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  55. @Tim

    Am I supposed to take seriously insinuations about the lower moral fiber of black people when I can easily read about the above?

    Something is different about them, because we all deal with government externalities but most whites still manage to scrape by without nearly the rates of social pathologies of blacks. But there is a lot of truth to your canary-in-the-coal-mine thesis. Lower class whites in the US are getting pulverized and on the margins, just giving up completely.

    Here’s the thing: when K-selected people get kicked into the deep end and told to sink or swim, they will generally adapt, befitting their station as the globe’s apex predator. When the civilizational rug gets pulled out from under r-selected people, then they drop down to Malthusian subsistence, like everything else in the food chain.

  56. @rod1963

    Correct. (In re PseudoWhatMic).

    Stress is what counts; stress is what changes perception and behavior. Big city cops working in bad neighborhoods live under extremely stressful conditions. It makes a big difference.

    As for stapler misfires, do not disrespect the sheer agony of a #2 staple going through a fingernail, no sir. 🙂

  57. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    Agreed. I would blame the problem exactly on the infantilization of the black population, which makes them “victims” not responsible for their own life choices. Black kids dropping out of schools? It’s all white people’s fault. Google employees are 30% Asian but only a few % are Blacks? Come on Google, it’s you who’s responsible if Blacks don’t go to college. People talking about the problem? Shut up and check your privilege guys! It’s you who’s subconsciously oppressing and marginalizing Blacks. Various non-profits and college programs, media benefiting from screaming about oppression. They are the most interested parties that the oppression never stops, so they get a steady stream of income and power. It only hurts the ones they claim to protect, not only infantilizing them, but creating segregation and othering. It’s pretty much the same with modern feminism infantilizing women and screaming about “sexism” at every corner. Causing equality going backwards.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  58. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Agreed. There are many groups that benefit and make money from the current situation. And they wouldn’t give it away.

  59. Sunbeam says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    Actually I’d say you are evading the point.

    Let me ask you a question.

    Dog breeders can take dogs, select them for breeding, and in about 10 generations or so have something very different from the original, depending on what they are going for. Size, behavior,… intelligence.

    Now, put yourself on the line.

    Can you do this with people? Not whether you should, or whether it is moral. But simply can you do this?

    And if not why? Is it some kind of eternal spark, or god’s will or something, that says you can’t do the same things with humans you do with any other animal?

    I’m not talking about the morality or cultural esthetic of it. Simply whether this is possible or impossible for humans.

    Furthermore, I’d say people are constantly practicing selection. It’s not like they just mate with the first person that asks them. They have criteria, based on instinct and social conditioning.

    So humans have been around a long time (let’s use that time scale and not how long it takes to erode a mountain or move a continent due to drift).

    How is it possible they haven’t selected for certain traits within a given population?

    I really don’t expect you to answer. But it should be interesting if you do.

    Then there is the inevitable question I don’t have an answer for. As far as I can tell Eugenics should work. Not on the timescale of releases of electronic devices, but within generations surely.

    Let’s do a thought experiment. Let’s postulate two possible worlds, both set about a 100 years from now.

    One world, or should I say timeline, is simply ours with the typical mating patterns of whatever you want to call it now extended into the future.

    The other timeline is one where all those early 20th century eugenicists like Sanger, Wells, Keynes got their wish, and eugenics is a policy practiced by the state (meaning a bunch of nations in this case).

    Whether you want to make that sausage or not, tell me what you think both worlds would look like, and what the differences would be? Do you think they would be exactly the same?

    So in the end, regardless of whether you would personally fight eugenics to the death, whether this policy is ever likely to be adopted, or anything of that sort….

    Tell me why Eugenics wouldn’t work?

    I might add that people practice it on their own as I said. The phenomena of assortative mating among elite college students is well noted on these boards. As well as the various subgroups that form marriages by familial as opposed to personal selection. And they are here even in the US.

    As well as the general environment that tends to surround teen pregancy, and the single mother families on the welfare rolls.

    Whether they are conscious of it or not, a kind of selection is going. By all the laws of biology I know of.

    So what do you think the end result will be in each case? You know we are closing in on a few generations of both cases now. I’d say elite college assortative mating started in the 60’s, along with the modern welfare state in our country. The generations for the elite college participants take a few more years than the other to reproduce. But in both cases they are reproducing.

    So say 2 generations for the elite college students, and oh 3 (could be 4) for our other population.

    You really think we couldn’t find an observable effect if you looked at it closely, and were willing to admit what you find?

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  60. Fred is getting the attention he has long deserved – he’s a brilliant writer and on this issue he is very correct. While those ‘liberals’ disparage the ‘fascist’ cops – guess who they call in – without a moment’s hesitation – when some despicable scum look like invading their pretty little home (assuming of course they are lucky enough to get any warning).

    • Replies: @art guerrilla
  61. @Anon

    Ummmm…..okay, pretty much. I don’t care for the term “infantilizing” per se, because I think it’s cognitively misleading. I can’t think of a “one word” replacement, however. I see it more as a placement into a protected status, and a dispensation of responsibility for one’s actions, as though the Black is, as your preferred term would indicate, a child. Too bad “todlerization” is not a word. 🙂

    It’s analogous to what happens to deer populations when there are no natural predators, and game laws ban hunting. The population grows, the deer invade suburban areas, destroy lawns, trees and shrubs. The bucks spray their rut-season piss everywhere, little children are followed and trampled for aromas emanating from lunchboxes, etc. And each succeeding deer generation becomes increasingly contemptuous of humans and their silly rules.

  62. @Sunbeam

    Does human eugenics work? It should. I suppose some small number of well-defined selections could be achieved with a well-regulated, enforced program of eugenics. Eight generations, as I understand genetics, is a minimum requirement to achieve a selected gene-set.

    You will need some sort of plan, I would think. And a whole lotta money, and a whole lotta power.

    Doable? Maybe.


    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  63. @Jim

    Essentially all human behavior has a substantial genetic component.

    So, when I go out to my stoop in the morning and retrieve the execrable local newspaper, I am driven to do that by genetics? That doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense.

    I would be more inclined to say that “some human behavior may have a genetic component”.

    Nomothetic statements like yours are fraught with peril.

    Tell you what … I’ll give you an opportunity to demonstrate your assertion. Name ten human behaviors that are genetically acquired.

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
  64. @John Jeremiah Smith

    It’s even simpler than that. Just stop subsidizing r-selection.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  65. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This was a good read, and it just makes it that much more viscerally clear what a menace cops are to society.

    He tries to show that it’s not the fault of the individual cop, and I would agree that the institution could not be any other way, but every cop still chooses to be a part of that, and add his own participation to the collective crime of “policing.”

    He describes the situations he faces, as though his presence was not the cause of conflict. …as though this were not the story of an invasion, but of defense against one. …as though the public were simply whining about what everyone knows he must do to them, instead of innocent victims of his violent crimes.

    So you “find yourself” enforcing unjust laws? And what do you think that makes you, if not the criminal in the situation?

    He describes the horrors of a war he is waging on society, as though it will win the sympathy of us, his victims.

  66. @Augustus Finkin

    oh, ’cause when we get into a jam, we have the choice of either,
    A. calling the kops (like we are supposed to do);
    B. attacking whoever is doing whatever we don’t like, probably leading to all sorts of complications, if not prison time;
    C. calling the hippie police force that every town has, oh wait, there is no hippie police force, there are no other choices…

  67. Sunbeam says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    I’ll bite on some of them.

    1) Introversion/Extraversion

    2) Agressiveness

    3) Something I don’t have a good word for. “Ability to grind” maybe. I guess you could call it “work ethic” but Asians (well the Chinese/Koreans/Japanese we mean when we say “Asians”), do it better than anyone.

    4) Use of alcohol and other drugs

    5) Related to 4, but time frame of thinking.

    6) Guess it is also related to 4 and 5, but thinking with your “pee pee.” Or mindlessly having sex, without the slightest concern for the consequences. Unplanned births (ha ha ha) for children there is no conceivable way you could feed without the welfare system, hard feeling and breakup of marriages.

    Literally the philosophy is that any opportunity to have sex must be taken, no matter what.

    7) Criminality, though this is related to 2 and 5. Personally I don’t think the legal system has any deterrent effect on certain populations committing crimes in this country. Other than simply warehousing them somewhere off the street.

    My belief is that certain populations are so ruled by impulse and think only of the moment, that they never stop to consider “Hey I could go to jail for this.”

    8) Ability to start and run businesses.

    9) Ever notice how dancing differs among different cultures? I am convinced that there is a genetic component to this as well. If you read this and the other hbd sites, you will inevitably come across some quote from the age of European expansion, when some European stated of West Africans “If they were to fall from a cliff, they would snap their fingers in perfect time all the way down.” (or somthing to that effect anyway.

    10) Taste in music. No idea about Asians, but whites tend to favor harmony, and blacks rhythm. Yes, I know that there have been some really good black harmony groups, but in general they don’t like it.

    As an addendum to this, I have heard some blacks say such-and-such has a great voice. I listen to it, and I just can’t hear it.

    But I think we are after different things.

    BTW, I am not trying to speak in code. When I say certain populations, I mean blacks.

    Now you will try to frame me as someone who wears a Klan outfit or favors Nazi paraphernalia.

    Neither is true. I don’t have any personal animosity at all. I just think it is a statement of fact, along the lines of “Bears crap in the woods.”

    Now the people who read these hbd sites tend to have certain political viewpoints. But of course it’s not monolithic.

    I am kind of bemused by the fixation on Eric Holder and Obama. I think the guy in the Maryland prison that got his guards pregnant is far more of a threat to American society than either of them ever will be. Well as an archetype anyway. Obama and Holder will go on to give speeches for a hefty fee to the Carlyle group and whatnot, and their kids are going to go to elite colleges and do something lucrative.

    The guy from Maryland’s kids are going to go to jail, just like dad, and spread like a pyramid scheme. And the whole things is going to suck money directly by welfare payments, and the cost of incarceration.

    Plus if Malcolm X were still alive, I’d much rather have him as a neighbor than “The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia.” I know thereof of what I speak, and I’d have a lot more trouble from them than Malcolm X.

    Regarding immigration, I’m not in favor of it, and think my life and future generations of people like me will be worse than if it were stopped. But the big divide is between sub-saharan Africans and everyone else.

    Though some people seem to have a real mad-on for Australian Aborigines. Though they are hardly affecting anything outside of Australia.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  68. @The Anti-Gnostic

    It’s even simpler than that. Just stop subsidizing r-selection.

    Excuse me for taking that as a sincere invitation to ROFLMAO.

    You mean, like in India, for instance? Which, among other things, is a concrete example of the fact that humans will drink the leachings from town dumps to survive?

    More succinctly … oh, yeah, THAT’s gonna happen.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  69. @Sunbeam

    Only #2 and #4 are behaviors.

    Generally speaking, behavior is a stimulus response.

    The notion that some specific behaviors may be genetically programmed may be demonstrable, at some point in future research. It is true that there exist reflex behaviors that are genetic, but that appear to be universal throughout the human genome (for example, blinking, flinching, at the approach of objects that might strike the eyes or face, or being startled by a loud noise).

    At the present, I am aware of no studies that have provided any substantial, or verified, evidence of such behavior at any level beyond the purely physical or hormonal reflex. Certainly, if you know of such research, I would be more than happy to read it.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  70. @John Jeremiah Smith

    It’s completely possible. The welfare state is a modern experiment. It’s not hard to foresee a future where sterilization is a condition of your receipt of government aid. The rich do not plan on paying more taxes to take care of a Third World baby boom.

  71. @John Jeremiah Smith

    Dogs are bred for very exacting behavioral traits. But it’s considered unethical to impose that degree of exogenous selection on humans. At present.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  72. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Dogs are bred for very exacting behavioral traits. But it’s considered unethical to impose that degree of exogenous selection on humans. At present.

    I suspect your knowledge of the applicable science may be insufficient.

  73. Cato says:

    “Second generation immigrant”–these are the scourge of Scandinavia, but, as you said, they have also been the problem throughout U.S. history. Hispanics, contrary to what you hope, do not do well in the second generation. The first generation of Mexican immigrants works like the peasants they are. The second resembles the Jeff Bridges character in Big Lebowski–they accept that life is not a struggle, and so they don’t. I’ve seen this in many places, but most starkly in the fruit orchards of Washington, east of the Cascades. The big question is what will happen in the third generation. Without an incentive to work hard, I suspect that Hispanics will hew ever closer to the example set by African-Americans.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  74. “Bryce Dion, a Massachusetts native and an audio supervisor for the television show ‘Cops,’ was shot and killed by police gunfire during a shootout with a suspect in Nebraska.”

  75. @Cato

    Without an incentive to work hard, I suspect that Hispanics will hew ever closer to the example set by African-Americans.

    No they won’t. As soon as their population numbers are sufficient, they will turn the USA into Mexico. Or Venezuela. Or Guatemala — take your pick. Conquistador societies are corrupt — purely corrupt. Their societies, virtually without exception, stratify into two classes: the rich, and serfs. The rich are ruthless, the poor helpless.

    Unfortunately, that, i.e. some variation on feudalism, seems to the base model for all human societies, including those mechanized and technologically advanced. Only the former USA succeeded in modifying that model into one of dynamic, democratic free-enterprise, which held for 200 years before its unprecedented national wealth led to unsupportable sloth and corruption.

    It turns out you have to aggressively and consistently root out corruption in government, because once the crooks get ahead of the game, the honest and hard-working members of society are harnessed for the masters, and there is no going back without revolution. If then.

  76. Sam J. says:

    Interesting that Mangan has a similar article.

    “In defense of the militarization of the police”

    Fred’s right about the inner city. He’s right about the fear the cops have. The cops behavior and thinking are understandable. For that very reason I don’t want the police to have armored personal carriers and machine guns. They’re far too likely to kill us all. They don’t seem to be able to make any distinction and fire away immediately at most anyone.

    One example is the old guy reaching for his cane so he can walk or the deaf guy whittling on a stick with pocket knife the police shot.

    This is just a couple of examples there’s many.

    I also believe there’s a big abuse of steroids on the police force. A lot of the cops look like Hulk. Hard to get that way without pharmaceutical help. To understand behavior on steroids look at Charlie Sheen when he had his melt down. I saw an interview where he said he was prescribed testosterone. Being Charlie Sheen he took about five times the recommended amount and you all saw the reaction. Cops. Same thing. just looking for someone to pounce on.

  77. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Ya nailed it Fred………..Just starting year 25

  78. Flemur says:

    John Jeremiah Smith says:
    So, when I go out to my stoop in the morning and retrieve the execrable local newspaper, I am driven to do that by genetics?

    Yup. Because you are curious about about what other people are doing.

    Social Curiosity and Gossip: Related but Different Social Functions

    Curiosity has been recognized as a driving force in human development and learning developed in the course of evolution (cf. [14], [23]). This interest in novelty appears to be a core determinant of individual differences in intelligence and development over the life span [6], [8].

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  79. @Flemur

    Don’t lose your temper over this demurral, but that’s not “behavior”. “Curiosity” is a mental state, and is not “behavior”. The “behavior” is going to the porch to get the newspaper.

    While I have no objections to HBD devotees claiming that a predisposition to certain mental states is a product of naturally-selected genes or gene-complexes, they should not characterize such as “behavior’, because it is not behavior. Furthermore, any claim that such mental states are a product of genetics is demonstrated by empirical verification of the specific effects of those genes or gene-complexes under controlled experimental conditions, and not by opinionating that a behavior MUST be the product of some naturally-selected genetic condition — onaccounta because its just gottabe, ya know?

    Yes, appearances give that appearance in some cases, but that doesn’t make it true. Real science is what counts.

Current Commenter

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone

 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Fred Reed Comments via RSS
Personal Classics
Not What Tom Jefferson Had in Mind
Sounds Like A Low-Ranked American University To Me
Very Long, Will Bore Hell Out Of Most People, But I Felt Like Doing It
It's Not A Job. It's An Adventure.
Cloudy, With Possible Tidal Wave