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In my decades as galley slave in Washington’s journalistic sludge fleets, I occasionally encountered conspiracy theories, such as the Second Shooter who got JFK, and that FDR intentionally let the Japs blow up Pearl Harbor, and of many sightings of alien space ships. Various psychic oddities dwelling in the crevices of the Potomac Rome worried about fluoride in the water. Like most news weasels who had a living to make, I ignored them as being fringe notions and wackos, which they later proved to be, the stories if not always the people. In any event they seemed few.

Then came Nine Eleven and Covid and there were millions of conspiracy theorists (CTs). Their numbers elevated them from peculiarities to a sort of contained nation within the polity and, in the case of the vaccine worriers, a public danger in that they blocked efforts against the virus. Yet one cannot reasonably relegate a large fraction of the country to the realms of mental disturbance without explanation. What was going on? Perhaps it was another manifestation of the malaise and anxiety and creeping hopelessness that gnaw at so much of America.

Most of their theories were nuttier than Aunt Polly’s prize fruitcake, that Dad poured rum on every year at Christmas and lit on fire. For example, a photo of the Grassy Knoll from above showed it to be the last place in Dallas that anyone would put a sniper, being small, almost without concealment, surrounded on all sides by busy urban streets, and overlooked by tall buildings with lots of windows. The inability of CTs to notice radical incoherence and protuberant flaws like this in their conspiratorial ointment (or is it flies in ointment?) is characteristic of the species.

To my astonishment, I discovered that many among conservative friends believed in the FEMA camps and such, and that they became angry if these were questioned. So I stopped.

The contradictions in these tales were obvious as boils on a pole dancer, as were stark implausibilities and lack of knowledge of the underlying fields. While the theories themselves soon ceased to be interesting, the psychology of the believers fascinated me. There are a lot of theories and, I noticed men (almost all CTs are) who believe in one almost always believe in many. A few of the more popular

FDR helped the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor. Black helicopters of some presumably nefarious sort fly over America. A hundred FEMA concentration camps, manned but as yet empty, exist to be stuffed with patriots or conservatives or somebody. The Navy shot down TWA 800. The Jews (or, in other popular versions, the CIA, Mafia, LBJ’s people, or Cuban intelligence killed JFK. The second shooter did it. The government is buying up, or has bought up, thousands of coffins for I’m not sure exactly what purpose. The Jews killed RFK. Obama wasn’t a US citizen. Covid doesn’t exist. While not existing, it contains microchips to track us. Also nanoparticles that do something probably not good. Also mRNA to reprogram our DNA. The Jews blew up the Twin Towers. The military blew up the Pentagon with a missile. The Jews killed Forrestal. Miracle cures for covid exist but are hidden by the government, or most world governments, to (a) make money for Big Pharma, (b) to train us to obedience as communist robots. The purpose of the virus is to depopulate the planet. Lots and lots of POWs and MIAs were knowingly left behind in Vietnam by the Pentagon. Space aliens are stored at Roswell and flying saucers are virtually everywhere. There is a huge conspiracy to pretend that large numbers of people are dying of Covid. Earlier there was a huge conspiracy to prove they weren’t. The Jews, nothing if not busy, are destroying white Christian civilization. Dominion voting machines were hacked. Fluoride in the water is softening our brains (but, presumably, hardening our teeth.) The Towers were blown up by mini-nukes, the airplanes didn’t exist but were holograms, and pools of molten steel were found under the rubble months later.

There is apparently among CTs a gentleman’s agreement that enthusiasts of one theory will not criticize a mutually exclusive theory For example, when the Twin Towers fell, huge steel beams were allegedly hurled long distances, proving the use of explosives, but the buildings also supposedly fell neatly in their “footprints,” proving “controlled demolition.” At least one of these has to be wrong.

Why CTs, often no dummies, do not notice these impossibilities puzzles me. Any tale is welcomed, though not necessarily accepted in preference to one’s own, as long as it criticizes the “official story” (which usually means “what happened.”)

Maybe to be well twisted you have to start with enough string. The fair few among my friends are otherwise normal and, while mostly conservative, fall within the political mainstream, at leas as loosely defined.

Billions of words have been written by now about almost as many theories of Nine-Eleven but none answers the prior question of whether the conspiracy was possible. This baffles me.

A tale: In Marine Corps basic—OK, AIT, Advanced Infantry Training at Lejeune—we had a (very, very) short course in demolitions. It consisted in crimping a blasting cap onto a length of fuse, inserting it in a block of c4, lighting the fuse, and running like hell to the other side of the berm (“Fire in the hole.”) We saw demonstrations of how to use det cord to connect multiple blocks of boom stuff, but didn’t actually do it. I’m pretty sure I could have dropped a small rural bridge in Vietnam, but not much else.

One thing the instructors stressed—we probably would have figured it out all by ourselves—was that to bring something down, you needed to cut the supports that held it up.

Applying this complex reasoning to the Twin Towers, a Marine would reason that here too the supporting elements needed to be cut. What were these? Answer: the fifty-nine huge steel uprights on each face of the building. Where were these? Answer: In plain sight of all of the workers in the offices on the outer face of the building. Great big things, covered with wood facing or plaster, but visible. Visible every day. All day. Would not a CT, if he wanted to be believed by anyone outside of the community of the faithful, at a minimum have to explain how the Mossad agents rigged these pillars for demolition without being noticed?

No.

CTs don’t think this way. All you have to do is believe, to know without finding out, to accept without checking. The CTs aren’t lying, aren’t trying to fool the public. If they were, they would try to inject a degree of plausibility into the story. Nor do they seem to want to convince a wider public or, again, they would answer the essential questions. If you want me to believe that the Israelis did do it, you have to show me that they could have done it. If they couldn’t have, they probably didn’t. Weirdly, CTs on the web become much angrier at me for doubting their theories than at the Israelis who, they assert, killed three thousand Americans. I do not recall hearing a demand for even a diplomatic protest, much less carpet bombing Tel Aviv, appropriate if Israel did it.

(As of fifteen minutes ago, I have encountered a new kink in this rope: The explosives were built into the Towers at the time of construction. I suppose by a large gang of Mossad agents pretending to be construction workers The towers were finished in 1973, making them a monument to terroristic forethought. The more you look at this stuff, the sillier it gets, but CTs don´t notice.)

If the aim is to blame Israel, I can cook up a better story in two minutes: Diabolical Mossad agents, pretending to be Arabs, talked the hijackers into the idea of the hijackings and gave them funding. Bingo. This would be almost impossible to disprove (or prove), could be applied to the CIA or anyone else desired, and leave the “official story” functioning. But this would be boring.

I don’t get it. Give me one story, about covid or the Towers, stick to it, show it clearly to be physically possible. Failing this, I have to think the we are dealing with shapes swirling in the inner fog instead of reality. Although I concede that traces of pixie dust were found in the rubble, and witnesses report a dancing light, consistent with Tinker Belle….

Traipsing Through Wonderlands

Chronicles of a wild life in biker bars and the fleshpots of Bangkok, of years of solo hitchhiking across America, of a Southern boyhood of drag racing in old wrecks and guns and beer, of Marine Corps boot camp and Moon’s strange church, of scuba diving the deep walls of the Caribbean and cave diving in Mexico, of life on staff at Soldier of Fortune magazine and nine years as police reporter for the Washington Times in the weird, sad, and often unbelievable urban Petri dishes of the big cities. Politically incorrect and evilly funny, Fred takes no prisoners. He skews with murderous wit things he doesn’t like, which are many: pols, talking heads, officious do-gooders. He has a soft spot for things he does like, such as dogs, drunks, bar girls, and ambulance crews, of all of which he has known many. His work has appeared in Playboy, Harper’s, the Washington Post magazine an op-ed pages, and suchlike stations of the literary cross. The literary cross

 
• Category: History, Ideology • Tags: 9/11, Conspiracy Theories 
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  1. anon[248] • Disclaimer says:

    I like some of Fred’s amusing stuff, but this is a very ignorant, stupid submission.
    All I can say is – he must be operating at the same intelligence level that he used in order to qualify as a ‘journalist’

  2. Rich says:

    There are no conspiracies, Fred. A group of senators never met in secret and planned to kill Caesar. No group of Pharisees ever got together to try to kill Jesus Christ. No group of Puritans ever plotted to overthrow the King of England. No group of wealthy colonists never conspired to break the bonds that tied them to their mother country. No group of Southerners ever met in secret to plot the assassination of a tall man with a beard while he sat in Ford’s theater. No group of Englishmen ever worked together to bring the US into WW1. No crew of Germans ever quietly planned out ways to form a national socialist government. Nope. Never, ever was their a conspiracy formed by anyone, anywhere. If there was, wouldn’t someone somewhere have passed some kind of anti-conspiracy laws to imprison mobsters?

  3. Arrogance combined with ignorance and disinterest.
    No thanks.

    • Replies: @derer
  4. Mathew says:

    an astonishingly and uncharacteristically ignorant post. I guess Fred wants to burnish his mainstream credentials.

    • Agree: Irish Savant
    • Disagree: Wizard of Oz
  5. mh505 says:

    The man is afraid to lose his pension.

    Luckily, one can simply ignore him.

    • Agree: sulu
  6. the supporting elements needed to be cut. What were these? Answer: the fifty-nine huge steel uprights on each face of the building.

    Simple question. I always thought that tower blocks were held up from the roof, all hanging off the central pillar. Any support on the outside walls was only for local support.

    Am I completely wrong or is Fred completely wrong?

  7. meamjojo says:

    CT’s spend a lot of time imaginating.

  8. After I read Mr. Reed’s earlier article, saying that the Jews weren’t so bad after all and actually were quite intelligent, I had to scratch my head. Then this one came along. One can quickly dispatch Mr. Reed’s consignment of all the “conspiracies” to the guys wearing the foil hats. But really, why is he writing this stuff now? I used to think he was a pretty thoughtful guy.

    My conclusion: Just as Ron Unz is now running for the hills, trying to convince the establishment types that he really didn’t mean what he was saying for the last many years, Fred Reed is also jumping on the new band wagon. This suggests to me that they have gotten wind that the evil ones who have tolerated a little bit of dissent on the fringes from publications like this one, are losing patience. It appears that the days of the Unz Review must be numbered. We should all take notice and prepare for the onslaught. It looks like it is around the corner.

  9. @Gina Schrank

    Fred has written similar articles mocking CT’s. This missive is nothing new for him. It’s sad that such an otherwise intelligent man (and excellent writer) places so much faith in the government’s concocted stories. Surely he knows damned well that ALL governments lie ALL THE TIME. The phrase for it, which I learned as a 19 year old buck private in basic training, is CYA.

  10. Tom67 says:

    I agree and don´t agree with you. Let´s put it like that: there´s a million crazy theries about. You´re right. But you also have occam´s razor. If Cameron of Fox news (then basically a channel of the Bush II government) puts on a series about “laughing Israelis” a few month after 9/11 then you wonder whether that wasn´t a warning to Mossad: Ok we knew you were involved and it suited us but we know what happened and now it´s enough. How to explain 9/11? Foreknowledge and the interested parties closing their eyes. Still no explanation for WT7 though.
    To Kennedy: he was to strong and to independent. That doomed him. Best explanation for all the strange things surrounding his assisanation.
    Covid: no secret here. Gain of function research gone wrong; Chinese panicking; big pharma and big gov seeing the opportunity for plans that were laid long ago.

    • Replies: @Sailor1031
    , @Jack Sparrow
  11. Surely you don’t need to rig them all. Just a few in the middle ought to do it

    Surely there were empty offices.

    What about in between floors, in between the floor of one floor and the ceiling of another? No-one would see it there.

  12. Jmaie says:

    For example, when the Twin Towers fell, huge steel beams were allegedly hurled long distances, proving the use of explosives, but the buildings also supposedly fell neatly in their “footprints,” proving “controlled demolition.” At least one of these has to be wrong.

    In fact it was controlled demolition with the odd beam rigged to fly long distances just to create the kind of confusion you fell for – hook, line and sinker.

  13. Maybe Fred will get around to discussing Sandy Hoax, how there were oddly so few injured victims (unlike at Columbine), how all the injured happened to be teachers, how news about their condition was tightly guarded, how one of the victims allegedly shot in the leg twice was seen briskly walking onto the ice at Boston Garden to drop the puck at a Bruins game, less than 90 days after the shooting. (Note to Bruins–you might want to wait longer than 3 months to pull a stunt like this)

    Hey–maybe it all did happen, and maybe this superhuman chick got amazing medical care (although we still don’t know the hospital or doctor who cared for her) and maybe she grimaced through her physical therapy in record time, but these are certainly weird anomalies. Remember, the medical examiner, that Carver guy, claimed that Lanza’s ammunition was “uniquely damaging” and positively lethal to human tissue. His words!

    • Replies: @Lucius Somesuch
  14. Notsofast says:

    judging by freds portrait leading off this article, he is not ageing well. his nose appears swollen and bulbous probably due to a cilantro overdose and if you were to break open his tinfoil hat you would most likely find slightly burned jiffy pop popcorn, as much fun to make as it is to eat!

    • Replies: @MadFiddler
    , @Anon
    , @fasteddiez
  15. @obwandiyag

    The floors were self-supporting steel structures hung on a central pillar of triple-reinforced concrete – what Fred calls “pillars” were just the stiffening outer skin to curb vibrations and torsion, not actually supporting elements.
    HSLA girders lose load-bearing capacity at around 600°C, so the “pancaking” model of collapse is at least not implausible on its face.

    (But of course Fred is trolling for comments and not stupid enough to lump all the theories he mentions together – after all FDR did Pearl Harbor – that´s just TPTB´s way of discrediting the Truthers by association 😛 )

    • Replies: @pythagoras
    , @Showmethereal
  16. Pretty manipulative stuff, Mr. Fred Reed. A regular army of straw men. I’m sure some conspiracy theories are absurd yet that does not mean they all are. And perhaps it’s a bit irresponsible to dismiss everything by mixing what is absurd with what might be legitimate. Of course today legitimacy has become the biggest joke and a lot of institutions are losing credibility. Could be a problem in the near future, even for you pragmatic down-to-earth types.

    • Agree: Patrick McNally
    • Replies: @Rogue
  17. I’m still only open minded on 9/11, not a full blooded CT.
    But if you compare say the JFK assassination, there was at least a known shooter, a rifle and one target.
    And ever since US presidents have been carefully guarded because of the known risk of assassination. And other Presidents, before and after, have been shot at. And loads of people have died from rifle wounds – millions I guess.
    So the Non-CT is at least a decent alternative explanation and the credibility hurdle for a CT is high.

    For WTC there were two known weapons/planes, but no understanding that a plane could bring down a Tower building. Let alone 2 planes bring down 3. (And there was a 3rd plane with an unknown target that failed to arrive).

    And to this day there are still no other tower buildings that have fallen due to a plane flying into them, OR EVEN due to A FIRE. Grenfell Tower in London burnt for days in 2017, but still stands.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2017/jun/14/grenfell-tower-blaze-video-explainer

    And no effort post 9/11 has been made to protect Towers against Fires. No insurance companies have raised the premiums of towers vs shorter buildings. The world continues as if there is still no Tower risk.

    For Rival CTs against the NIST non-CT, the credibility hurdle is exceedingly low.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  18. I don’t know how you could have written a better article, Mr. Reed …

    … to piss off the site owner, 90% of the writers, and more than 1/2 the commenters. Nice work!

    I don’t imagine every single one of the events you mention were done by conspiracy and were not the stories we’ve read in history books. The problem is that you are lumping them all together, as if everyone here believes every one of them. Perhaps you could take one at a time, and not ignore the commenters that have damn good arguments. Oh, but this column was written just for a large comment count, was’t it?

    Asking the “how” of all these events is interesting, and I understand that proving the how of the CTs wrong can be satisfying, if one knew anything technical from his own drunk ass. But, nope. As Mr. Unz recently commented, it’s the “who” and “why” that are more important rather than the “how”, so long as that “how” is not ridiculously far-fetched. Even it is impossible realistically, how these event have been taken advantage of could involve conspiracies too.

    For instance, Peak Stupidity does not have many posts discussing the “how” of 9/11 and the Kung Flu virus, but it has a metric shit ton of posts about how the aftermath of each was used to implement a US Police State and a PanicFest of Totalitarianism, respectively. (If you click, scroll down, please.)

    • Agree: Rogue, SafeNow
    • Thanks: Jim Christian
  19. I can think of one word to describe this essay: smug.

    Such an arrogant, ignorant piece of shit. Each sentence manages to misstate every issue Fred addresses.

    Like most nutbag trolls, Fred uses the scattergun approach: make 100s of false statements on100s of issues all at the same time in one post..

    It seems Fred thinks he has proven his point that all whose conclusions and observations differ from the “Official Story” are stupid lunatics, so why should he take time to address any of them.

    If I had not seen Fred do this before, I would say that his essay is “breathtaking” in its successful feat of getting literally everything wrong.

    But that’s just Fred about 70 percent of the time. Why he feels compelled to write about things he has minus zero knowledge on? For some reason, Fred apparently enjoys humiliating himself over and over again.

    I doubt if it’s dementia. It’s smugness, as mean-spirited and as ignorant as can possibly be.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Rogue
    , @haha
    , @Anonymous
  20. Ivymike says:
    @michael droy

    In the case of the twin towers, you are flat out wrong, curtain wall construction, all the support is within the outer walls.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  21. I noticed men (almost all CTs are) who believe in one almost always believe in many.

    You’re not very good of a noticer (hence, “journalist”), as I haven’t found that to be true at all. Take me (no not down to Mexico!): Of all your CTs in that long paragraph., there are a few that I’d bet lots of money on, were I to be assured of getting the truth:

    1) JFK – there are so many reasons that different entities would have wanted him dead, that I don’t know why it would have been just the one idiot Oswald.

    2) “FDR helped the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor.” – nobody says that, ya’ dufus! More likely FDR IGNORED warnings whether vague or last-minute solid ones, so that he could be sure America would get involved in WWII. Actually, I wouldn’t bet a fortune on this, but then I could sure believe it easily.

    3) Øb☭ma was not born in Hawaii, and may in fact be the AntiChrist. Photoshop is easy. Cameras and other ways of gathering information were not ubiquitous back in 1960. (OK, wait, the AntiChrist theory has been debunked.)

    As for the strawmen:

    1) “There is a huge conspiracy to pretend that large numbers of people are dying of Covid.” I’ve never heard that one. It’s much more likely that doctors, hospitals, and bureaucrats in government tended to mark deaths “WITH Coved” as “FROM Covid” due to both political pressure and big financial incentives (example of the latter here).

    One that I am pretty sure is NOT a conspiracy, and you MISSED this one!:

    1) John F. Kennedy, Jr. – Hillary Clinton Senate seat aside, let’s face it, the guy didn’t really know how to fly instruments, though he’d had over 10 hours of instruction. (For straight and level, 3 hours oughta suffice.) A commenter here said that perhaps the 2 women with him were such harpies that he had had enough and decided to end it right there. ;-}

    .

    You all add your own lists. Fred needs the page views.

    • Agree: Jim Christian
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @jonejinx
  22. @anon

    Better read his article again, bubba. You missed his point completely.

    • Replies: @Gerhard57NL
  23. ruralguy says:

    Good points, Fred, but the mainstream media is also pushing conspiracy theories. Nearly every story they pushed in the past 5 years has been a conspiracy narrative that the right is engaged in nefarious activity: the 2-3 year Trump/Russian-collusion narrative, the right is out to get Joe Biden by misrepresenting Hunter Biden’s role in Ukraine and China, Senate/House impeachment investigations, Nick Sandmann and right-wing teenagers are KKK lynch mobs, the Jan 6th protestors were trying to stage a coup, etc.

    • Agree: Rogue, Rogue
    • Replies: @Rogue
  24. CTs don’t think this way. All you have to do is believe, to know without finding out, to accept without checking. The CTs aren’t lying, aren’t trying to fool the public. If they were, they would try to inject a degree of plausibility into the story.

    That was the very best part. Except for why the event was allowed to happen at all, the rest isn’t very mysterious.

    Aluminum airplane + burning fuel and furniture + oxygen produces molten aluminum.
    molten aluminum + water produces explosions.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  25. As far as the Kennedy assassination is concerned there is one thing I do not believe: that a “distraught” Jack Ruby, aka Jacob Rubenstein, killed Lee Harvey Oswald because he loved Kennedy so much.

    I believe that someone with a lot of power over Mister Ruby sent him on that errand.

    • Agree: Showmethereal, sulu
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  26. Phibbs says:

    Reed is an Israeli asset. Even FOX News with Brit Hume did an expose on Mossad foreknowledge of the 9-11 attacks. Reed is deliberately misleading his readers. What an alt-right fraud …

    • Agree: Jim H, Iris
  27. In support of what Fred Reed is quite reasonably saying here, please note that the most recent submissions from Dearly Beloved Founder Ron say that he’s not particularly interested in How They Did It, but more interested in Why They Did It.

    That’s backwards. You cannot affirm that anyone Did It, without establishing whether it was possible for them to have Done It. Absent an explanation of, to a certain degree of plausibility, how the conspiracy managed to collapse the Twin Towers and Building 7, then we’re not able to talk about anything else. They did collapse, the buildings. You don’t believe it was done by Arabs flying airplanes, even with all the video evidence, impossible to fake. Well then, explain how it was done. Only when that is done can we go on to discuss why it was done.

    Anything could have an occult cause if you never have to show how.

    • Replies: @Weaver
    , @Rogue
    , @AB_Anonymous
  28. Bubba Ed says:

    You missed a couple of theories behind JFK. Joe Kennedy had it done because he was losing too much money because of JFK’s programs. The South Vietnamese did it because a high ranking relative was killed during a coup. They contacted relatives in Hanoi who send them a hit man that entered the US via Mexico. I think this one is true because I read it in a mystery novel back in the seventies.

    In AIT I was luckier than you. My instructors wrapped a small pine tree with det cord and cut it in half with the explosion. Very impressive to us Southern rednecks who like to see things go boom. Impressed a couple of Damn Yankees too.

  29. Mr. Reed is trolling for clickbait here, something he did once before, which I assume is due to a lack of material for interesting articles. If not, here are two short educational videos about one of his slurs that sane people find compelling:

    • Thanks: Weaver
  30. Amalekite says:

    Can we please get rid of this guy. Don’t trolls usually belong in the comment section? I don’t even need to read his articles anymore. He’s simply trying to piss people off and thinks he’s funny doing it. So, trolling.

    • Agree: FreedomAndTruth
    • Replies: @Weaver
  31. Dumbo says:

    I didn’t even read this one. Seemed pretty dumb and unfunny just from the picture.

    Fred used to be funny and occasionally interesting. What happened? His last columns sucked bad.

    In any case, mocking “conspiracy theorists” seems a dumb move to try at the Unz Review.

    • Agree: FreedomAndTruth
    • Replies: @interesting
  32. geokat62 says:

    There are a lot of theories and, I noticed men (almost all CTs are) who believe in one almost always believe in many.

    Truly brilliant strategy. Drill 666 rabbit holes surrounding the one true rabbi hole… discredits all conspiracy theories, including the MOACT (mother of all conspiracy theories), i.e., Tikkun olam. Instead of “fixing the world,” they are conquering the goyim.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  33. Weaver says:

    The theory is that the buildings were wired, not set with explosives just wired, at construction.

    I have no idea about such a thing, but I doubt any could believe actual explosives were in the building at construction.

  34. @Notsofast

    The picture ahead of the article Ain’t Fred. He may deny it now, in some pathetic attempt to keep his security clearance… but I was a few years behind him in a rural high school in the Old Dominion.

    It’s been a long time since we had face to face conversations, and it often struck me that even when I didn’t understand his clearly superior logic — which was because (a) he was a few years older, which makes some difference when you’re in high school; and (b) he actually seems to be smarter, which is a concession I finally learned to make in college when I found self surrounded by valedictorians, national merit scholars, and kids whose class projects got them MacArthur grants — he would sometimes toss a spanner into the conversation just to rile the participants and spark some passionate cries of, “Oh, yeah? Well… just… OH, YEAH????

    Doesn’t mean he knows fuck all about any subject toward which he casts his eyeballs.

    Another words…

    Just because there are idiots who believe in conspiracies… doesn’t disprove every conspiracy’s actuality.

    p.s. I think it was Jackie engaged the shooters. Woman wronged and all.

  35. Trinity says:

    FDR + JFK + 911 + Covid = * I see a common denominator. Now does anyone else?

    Morgantheau, Jacob Rubenstein, Professor Lieber, 5 dancing Israelis for starters.

    We must not believe in “conspiracy theories.” teehee.

  36. Weaver says:
    @Michael Meo

    Whether the planes hit the building or not, and I expect they did, it’s difficult to believe the planes had thermite and that it could destroy the buildings so perfectly. Whether you agree with this or not, that’s the criticism. All three collapsed in a very unusual way, not only one.

    Furthermore, it’s clear the dancing Israelis knew of the event before it happened. Cui Bono? Israel.

    Anyway, most people will just believe whatever their authorities say. So, what’s absurd is pretending that people are rational and can think for themselves. If Biden has a nightmare, wakes up, and nukes Poland; Fred Reed will believe whatever excuse is given. People just accept what they’re told, without thought, no matter how absurd.

    Even though we now know Saddam wasn’t pursuing nukes, as the conspiracy theorists then insisted, Fred Reed likely believes he was. And a million Iraqis were killed as a result.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  37. @Bubba Ed

    At some of my places of employment the question kept coming up as to whether someone had sneaked in and replaced the network buses connecting our computers with det cord.

    Damn things went down so frequently we often had to fall back on “SneakerNet” to share our files from cubicle to cubicle.

    Might have been a back-door form of job security for the IT people…

  38. Weaver says:
    @Amalekite

    His recent China article was good. He used to have a large following among people a bit older than I.

  39. @nokangaroos

    The simple proof that the towers were blown up is found in this set of pictures, but look at the 9th picture from the last one. It shows that the center of the foot print of WTC 1 after the collapse as being at the same level as the side walk. There should be 1 foot per floor, or about 110 feet high pile of rubble at the center, but no, it is at the level of the side walk. This is QED proof that WTC 1 was exploded outward. It doesn’t matter how many planes or fires, or collapse sequence, or building construction…etc.

    You can see a lone steel column protrude from the center of the rubble; this was the core of the center concrete mast of the building

    • Replies: @Stephane
    , @Showmethereal
  40. Hello, this is mad fiddler’s mother lol. I’ve just come in and found he had hacked into my email account again. I’ve given him a stern talking to, and I’ve given him his meds, and he’s off to bed.
    I apologize if he has said anything crude or obnoxious to any of you.
    He’s not always as cheeky as he sometimes is.
    Please excuse the interruption.

    • Replies: @ruralguy
  41. Trinity says:

    How often have those wackos been right in say the last 70-80 years? How often have the hipsters and (((smart guys))) been wrong?

    How about those “racist wackos” that told you that integration would destroy public schools? Remember how all the hipsters and smart guys told you those rednecks and hayseeds didn’t know what the hell they were talking about? LOLOLOL. Yeah, right. CHECK

    How about (((the smart guys))) and hipsters telling you the Immigration Reform Act would not change the demographics of America and anyone who said it would was just one of those “racist wackos.” CHECK

    How about (((those smart guys))) telling Whites in the 1970s that Whites should think of the planet and stop having so many kids. After all, remember this one old heads, “there are starving children in China.” haha. CHECK

    (((Covid.))) * obviously this isn’t in chronological order. hehe.

    Oh, lest we forget, in the 1970s, we were facing an Ice Age from “Global Cooling.” I kid you not. You youngsters can look up that horse dookie. LMAO. CHECK

    • Thanks: Craig Nelsen, mark green
    • LOL: Weaver
    • Replies: @Weaver
  42. pythagoras says: • Website

    A basic proof that the towers were blown up is found in this set of pictures, but look at the 9th picture from the last one. It shows that the center of the foot print of WTC 1 after the collapse as being at the same level as the side walk. There should be 1 foot per floor, or about 110 feet high pile of rubble at the center, but no, it is at the level of the side walk. This is QED proof that WTC 1 was exploded outward. It doesn’t matter how many planes or fires, or collapse sequence, or building construction…etc.

    You can see a lone steel column protrude from the center of the rubble; this was the core of the center concrete mast of the building

  43. I can’t be the only one wondering why Unz still publishes this guy’s low effort crapola articles.

    • Agree: Jim H, Corrupt
  44. @anon

    Building 7 fell down —it was” pulled” but better yet it was over the BBC one half hour before Demolition time——–and 1 and 2 were wired to drop and Monday night before 911 –Towers of Doom were in action taking on Diesel and Big Boss Man—-or was it Undertaker and Mankind???

  45. Anon[217] • Disclaimer says:

    Thought this was a pretty stupid article for a well informed scribbler.

    Question – Does Fred still believe the USA went to the Moon in the 60’s or ever ?

    If he does he’s not very bright.

    • Troll: Mark Hunter
  46. Several of the ‘myths’ you cite are either true, partially true, or very likely true.

    You’re performing a service useful to some by listing them along with various improbabilities and impossibilities.

    Some bad things really did happen; the Israelis knew 9/11 was going to happen and didn’t tell us, even if they didn’t do it themselves. The evidence is pretty strong the North Vietnamese held on to some P.O.W.’s after the war ended.

    • Agree: Showmethereal
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  47. geokat62 says:

    The “pledge” is just a conspiracy, goy!

    Gab comment posted by Lauren Witzke:

    The Jewish Lobbies are powerful, ruthless, intimidating, and cruel.

    When I ran for Senate, I was given a pledge to sign with the Jewish Federation saying that I would commit to a certain amount of money in foreign aid (billions) to Israel every year, should I want their support.

    I believe all foreign aid to be unconstitutional. No American signed up to have their hard earned money taxed 40% and sent to a foreign country.

    Anyway, when I declined, it was like I was put on a list and every media piece from there on out was dedicated to proving I was a “White Nationalist antisemite.” Times of Israel was especially ruthless. It was brutal.

    However, I didn’t change my mind and cave on the foreign aid issue, no matter how much pressure or slander came from the Jewish media. Trump should have done the same.

    https://gab.com/LaurenWitzkeDE/posts/106948065165997873

    • Thanks: Robjil
  48. Sparkon says:
    @Ivymike

    You don’t know what you’re talking about, and neither does Fred Reed.

    The Twin Towers at the World Trade Center had a tube within a tube design where both exterior and interior structural elements supported the building, and that is definitely not curtain wall construction.

    Both the exterior box columns and the central cores of the Twin Towers held up the floors suspended between them. The individual floors themselves had to support only the weight of tenants, their office furniture and other equipment on that floor, in addition to their own weight.

    A building with curtain wall construction has no support on its exterior facade, hence the name.

    A curtain wall is an outer covering of a building in which the outer walls are non-structural, utilized only to keep the weather out and the occupants in.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtain_wall_(architecture)

    Taking down the Twin Towers required demolishing both the exterior box columns and the central cores of both buildings.

    • Agree: niceland
  49. ‘…If the aim is to blame Israel, I can cook up a better story in two minutes…’

    If the aim is to cover for Israel, Fred has to be given credit for doing a passable job.

  50. “Diabolical Mossad agents, pretending to be Arabs, talked the hijackers into the idea of the hijackings and gave them funding.”

    This is almost certainly, like ~99% probably, what happened, and what I have always assumed was the truth.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  51. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:

    So do tinfoil hats protect against poltergeists?!

  52. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Who wanted JFK dead? As far as I can tell, the JFK conspiracy crap was an outgrowth of the hippie movement, which contrasted the supposedly “good Democrat” JFK with the “bad Democrat” LBJ. In reality there was little difference, both were cold warriors through and through. The FBI or the “military-industrial complex” or whoever had little reason to prefer one to the other.

    To young people the whole thing just seems like ancient history, like people bandying on about Gavrilo Princip and the assassination of the Austrian Archduke. Who killed boomer Kennedy? Who cares?

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  53. utu says:
    @follyofwar

    It’s sad that such an otherwise intelligent man (and excellent writer) places so much faith in the government’s concocted stories. – Intelligence has nothing to do with it. This is about moral character and about integrity where Fred Reed is severely lacking. I would also question his intelligence. An intelligent person and a good writer could write in more nuance way instead of being a slave of binary oppositions: love – hate, admiration – contempt, fight – flight. This is Fred Reed’s MO to operate on fringes and extremes where people shout to each other so morons can hear and get it. And finality the integrity implies courage and Fred Reed lacks it. He is a bully and coward who knows on which side the bread is buttered.

    • Agree: EuroNat
  54. Weaver says:
    @Trinity

    Cool kids would add base speakers and play gangster rap in expensive cars when I was growing up, paid for with parents’ money. It was pretty hilarious. “The tv says this is what cool kids do. We’re like in the hood, against the man.”

    We were also given a choice of equally corrupting music to pick from. Anyone remember 90s grunge music? Just as bad as rap, replaced metal, which wasn’t entirely corrupting. Punk was another option. And industrial rock. I’d struggle to find anything redeeming in the music, was so happy when I discovered better music later. Charlie Daniels mocked it in a song, “some orange haired fella singing about suicide.” Cool music is not for me!

    Fred Reed says, cool kids take the vax, don’t question 9/11. Pop culture is a joke. Dare to be uncool, and think for yourself.

    • Replies: @Trinity
  55. @anon

    Agree, that Fred has lost it, assuming he once was playing with a full deck. Now we can see him for the fool he is

    • Disagree: Decoy
  56. Oracle says:

    Here’s a good one: everything from feminism to transgenderism is a demographic attack meant to reduce numbers. Oddly enough the initiators are working on the same team to secure the demographic collapse. Unbelievable? Of course it is, just another one of those horse feather hogwash conspiracy theories.

  57. Jews are in power in the Western world, but anyone “respectable” (which Fred Reed is not, of course, but he would like to imagine he is) is required to deny it. That is no nutty conspiracy theory, that is simple truth. The people who deny this must necessarily deny nearly all the other propaganda lies that this system depends on for its existence.

    • Agree: GeneralRipper
  58. Nuts like to say there had to be a controlled demoliton because the towers fell straight down.

    Why did the towers fall straight down?
    Answer: Gravity pulls straight down.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Troll: Bro43rd, Agent76
  59. Mateo says:

    What the hell happened to Fred?

    • Replies: @sulu
  60. Rogue says:
    @abbra cadaver

    I’m sure some conspiracy theories are absurd yet that does not mean they all are.

    Exactly. Fred is doing the “well, if you believe in conspiracy in one thing, you obviously believe in conspiracy in everything!”

    So lame.

    With regard to 9 /11, there exist more than 3000 high-rise architects and structural engineers who are convinced the official version by NIST is nonsense. There are also former NIST employees, 9/11 commission members, commercial pilots, military pilots, at least some demolition experts, former intelligence agents and other assorted high ranking military men and politicians from various countries who claim the official story to be at the very least questionable.

    And let’s be clear, for every person who sticks their head above the parapet on something like 9/11, a vast many more prefer to stay safe and not be shot at. That’s just human nature.

  61. Gapper says:

    These are non-sense ramblings of a deranged or drunk person. They are filled with arrogant misunderstanding and complete and utter disrespect for fact. For a moment, I thought my smart phone shifted me to MSNBC or CNN where this story belongs

    • LOL: Jim H
  62. Rogue says:
    @restless94110

    I do like Fred’s stuff on many issues.

    I really do look forward to a new Fred article at Unz.

    However, on this particular topic (conflating 9/11 and Covid, for example, with every CT that exists no matter how wacky) he’s been here before and is getting reamed once again.

    Deservedly.

    • Agree: restless94110
  63. GMC says:

    Pretty Simple Fred – If the USG wasn’t so corrupt and if they ran the country – to favor the people who live here – there wouldn’t be a need for all these conspiracy theories because there would be plenty of – Truth.
    It’s obvious that millions of people are afraid of losing their jobs, pensions, disability accounts, medical/health, bank accounts etc. etc. etc. and this is a very valid fear, but I think it’s better to write Nothing, than write against the people that know some of these C Ts are honest , researched and mostly thought out common sense. How can the C Ts be judged to be right or wrong , when there is No Court that will allow a hearing, much less a debate in public? This lack of justice , shows the there is more validity in C Ts than in the government led investigations. Sabe’ ?

  64. So Freddy Israel, Mexican or Chinese Lover… I guess we are in endless wars in the Mideast not because they benefit your beanie wearing religious groups’ favorite country. No siree.. nope… we don’t destabilize all of Israel’s enemies do we asshole?

    You do of course realize that your host has a doozie of a conspiracy theory about Covid and the rogue military.. I mean US military biowarfare blowback?

    Hey how come you didn’t mention that one if you are into throwing dung on CT?

    If you’re reading Freddy… why not comment on Ronnie’s CT? It couldn’t be that the ChinkFlu escaped from a lab funded by Doctor Fauci’s joint could it? Geez… read the research abstracts that they were doing.

    Guess next Freddy you are going to say that there is No Deep State. No MIC. Politicians and corporations are the most honest actors in the world. They all do it out of love for the American people.

    We should just listen to our leaders and do what they tell us. Like pledge allegiance to BLM/the Gay National Flag. Diversity is our strength right Freddy… just like they tell us…

    Oh that’s right numbnuts… you love Diversity from the gated community in your country.

    Your writing gets more unreadable by the minute.

    • Agree: GeneralRipper
  65. Fred, what shot did you take? Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson, or perhaps AstraZeneca? Or was it Sputnik V or the Chinese jab? Did you take the full treatment? Have you had a booster shot?

    Or perhaps C2H6O or another substance?

    Just curious.

  66. Alfa158 says:

    “ The explosives were built into the Towers at the time of construction.”
    I’m surprised you just heard about that one. I read it a while ago, and it even included an explanation of what the motive was for rigging the buildings with explosives during their construction.
    The CIA had archived all the documentation of the Agency’s operation to assassinate JFK. They were worried this information might someday be leaked by a whistleblower, or ordered released to the public by some judge or politician. They were trying to figure out how to get rid of the incriminating evidence. What they came up with was a plan to first hide the records far from Langley in a basement storage room of WTC building 7, and to rig the WTC buildings with explosives during their construction. At an opportune time they would conduct a false flag operation that would collapse the main towers, and WTC 7 would also “incidentally” be destroyed. It would look like collateral damage from the destruction of the main towers and therefore so no one would get suspicious about WTC 7.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  67. EuroNat says:

    And yet more sh*tposting. How old is Fred? He reminds me of my late grandpa (may he RIP) always repeating the same old stories. Abe Simpson could have written the above drivel.

    1.China is so much better than the US

    2.Hostility towards Jews is the product of envy

    3.Mexicans and LatAms are good for you

    4. Conspiracy theorists are a bunch of nutters

    5. In my times in Vietnam…

    So boring. Before skimming over his most recent lazy and ignorant stuff I have already avoided his writings in the past, for I find it banal and repetitive to the extreme.

    Now I just go straight to the comment section to read the bashing, like when I used to skim over The Guardian.

    It is ok to publish well thought and at least moderately well researched opposing views, but the above mental incontinence insults the intelligence of all readers here. Why would UR publish this ignorant drivel? Why would he put it on top of all other posts? Maybe is this kind of autism affecting Ron, pushing him to value word count above all else, in the posts and in the comments? A curator is badly needed on this site.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
    • LOL: Hal Womack
  68. Russia Collusion, Gulf of Tonkin, WMD, Assad’s gas, Jan 6 ‘insurrection’, etc.

    It seems falsehoods spun by the Power do far more harm.

    Anyway, the trick is to weed out the most outlandish theories and consider the more provocative.

    Otherwise, all we got is trusting the gov and Jewish media moguls.

    Who believes the Jeffrey Epstein story?

    Fred the cabbage head.

    • Agree: Bro43rd
  69. GeneralRipper [AKA "The Griffins"] says:

    Oh, lest we forget, in the 1970s, we were facing an Ice Age from “Global Cooling.” I kid you not. You youngsters can look up that horse dookie. LMAO. CHECK

    Ahh yes I remember it well. The winters in the mid Seventies were quite harsh IIRC. I remember the Chesapeake Bay froze over and Coast Guard ice breakers had to be used to supply communities on Smith and Tilghman islands etc.. Lot of snow and ice storms and below freezing temps for several years in a row.



    As far as ol’ Fred’s latest pile of dung goes, I think him and Linh went and got their feelin’s hurt..lol

    They’ve been awful angry as of late.

    It seems our resident globe trotting “gonzo journalists” who scribble edgy, hard-hitting opinion pieces don’t like being told they’re full of shit or called mean names. Of course they can mock and disparage those idiot pussy Americans whenever they feel the urge, but I’m afraid that only goes one way.

  70. Rogue says:
    @ruralguy

    I agreed so much I agreed twice! Lol.

    Actually, problems with my smartphone. Anyway, still agree.

    • LOL: Mustapha Mond
  71. GeneralRipper [AKA "The Griffins"] says:

    Well Fred if someone wanted to rig explosives in the Twin Towers, I think the time to do it would have been after the first bombing attempt in 1993. Lots of repairs and structural/safety upgrades going on round the clock 24-7.

    Another crazy outlandish CT to add to your list.

    • Agree: Tom Welsh
  72. Rogue says:
    @Michael Meo

    I agree that Mr Unz has got it backwards on the “how” and “who” with regard to 9/11.

    I am interested in both questions, but I believe the “how” – once firmly established in the minds of enough people – will then naturally lead to the “who” question.

  73. I think the other article today looks more interesting…cheers…

  74. @Bubba Ed

    Our high school Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps instructor gave us this rule of thumb in the early 1970’s-

    “One wrap of det cord per inch of tree diameter.”

    He was a retired US Army Corps of Engineers Sergeant First Class.

  75. Fred was no journalist, just a mutt stringer working for WashTimes (sometimes in mercenaries’ publications, look it up, speaking of CTs) on commission. He got DC police (and occasionally DEA and U.S. Marshals) to let him string along as long as he didn’t get in the way or tell the truth of the crooked shit they did, like scoop the cash they ‘confiscated by the millions from drug dealers. Fred is establishment all the way, collects his 100 percent disability and social security to the tune of 5000 dollars a month and hides in Mexico with an ugly mexican woman and throws darts at those who know the truth, probably, again, on cash commission. Imagine Fred in the eighties, his car filled with scanners, listening for the latest bust, hoping to write a paragraph he could sell to WashTimes for 75 dollars. THAT was Fred and his journalist career. I was there, I remember. Oh, Fred? They hated you. The cops, Marshals, WashPost and WashTimes, your skanky women, Tornado Alley, everyone in DC HATED you. That’s why you’re in Mexico writing for the Israeli embassy, again, on commission. Writing as you are told to. Just like the old days. Mutt. Bet THIS doesn’t make it through moderation. Truth kills, in this instance, Fred is the CT. On his own behalf. Shocking.

    • Thanks: Corrupt
    • Troll: Tom Welsh
  76. gotmituns says:
    @michael droy

    The concept of the towers was as much floor space as possible. So what you had were two buildings. The inner “Core” where the elevator shafts were and the outer perimeter wall of columns. Everything tied into the Core from the perimeter. The planes did breach a section of outer perimeter columns on one side of each tower but the damage to Core would have ben minimal and the idea of the heat melting the beams is ridiculous. The C4 charges(or whatever was used) must’ve been planted in certain areas of the core over a period of time with regular maintainance. At the appointed day, the Arabs (need to know) flew the planes into the buildings (designed to take plane hits) and created their needed diversion and also becoming the fall guys, their two main contributions. Once the diversion occurred, the explosive charges were detonated by remote control from a safe distance. Once the core started going, it sucked everything else down with it as we saw – controlled demolition.

    • Replies: @GMC
    , @Showmethereal
  77. @michael droy

    I think a bigger difference between the Dallas assassination and 911 is that there really was an “official story” around the former, but not the latter. To me this has actually made it easier to construct plausible conspiracy-scenarios around Dallas, whereas 911 becomes more muddled more quickly.

    The “official story” around JFK is defined by the Warren Commission Report. This report was not only officially assembled but none of the leading politicians of the time promoted anything beforehand which conflicted with it. If you want to imagine a scenario in the JFK-case that is akin to 911, imagine if LBJ had followed the assassination with charges that Che Guevara had organized the assassination. Imagine that such insinuations were then used to deploy hundreds of thousands of US troops across Latin America in a hunt for Guevara. Now imagine that in the midst of this venture the Warren Commission comes out saying “It was a lone nut!” That would be very different from what really happened.

    In the case of 911 the Bush II administration used authors such as Laurie Mylroie to promote the idea that Saddam Hussein was behind 911. But the 911 Commission rejected this. So was the 911 Commission the “official story” or was Laurie Mylroie’s version it? No such conflict ever arose over the Warren Commission. LBJ made no attempt to promote his own version of what really happened at Dallas and he simply accepted the Warren Report without qualms. Whatever LBJ may have wanted to cover up, the Warren Report did a good enough job for him. In contrast, the 911 Commission Report has often been cited by people debunking claims made by the Bush II administration.

    So there really has never existed any “official story” around 911 and it makes no sense to draw a sharp line between “believing the official story” versus “believing a conspiracy theory.” If the “official story” of 911 is equated with what the Bush II administration alleged then Noam Chomsky would fall into the category of a 911truther, even though he clearly has rejected that role multiple times. Whereas the Dallas assassination lets us equate “conspiracy theorist” with “disputing the Warren Report” there is nothing analogous in 911 that serves as such a simple yardstick.

    • Agree: Tom Welsh
    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  78. Jim H says:

    Fifteen seconds to scan from top to bottom revealed another comment-whoring post by Blind Fred Reed, with the added benefit (for him) of pimping his book that I’ll never read.

    Is it advancing dementia that impels Blind Fred to continue the controlled demolition of whatever modest reputation he acquired during his career … or a tap on the shoulder from his handlers in Tel Aviv?

    Blind Fred is dead to me now.

    • Agree: Peripatetic Itch
    • Troll: Tom Welsh
  79. Tom Welsh says:

    I don’t have much to say about most of the other “conspiracy theories” Fred attacks, but I firmly believe that FDR was fully aware of the Japanese plan to attack Pearl Harbor, and did everything in his power to make sure it succeeded. Largely by keeping all secret intelligence about the Japanese attack from reaching the armed forces – in particular the commanders at Pearl Harbor.

    After over half a century of intense secrecy – in other words, when all the perpetrators were safely dead and beyond the reach of justice – the truth began to seep out. And it was collected and put together by Robert Stinnett in his very large, detailed and comprehensive book.

    “Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor” by Robert B. Stinnett
    ISBN13: 9780743201292

    FDR wanted a very convincing reason for the USA to go to war against Germany. Not to save democracy or anything like that – the USA didn’t enter the war until the tide had swung decisively in favour of the USSR – but to make sure the USA picked up as much easy loot as possible.

    He also wanted a chance to deflate the growing Japanese Empire. Partly by chance, and partly by assiduous effort, he managed to kill both birds with one stone. He began by gradually strangling Japan economically. The oil sanctions effectively forced the Japanese to do one of two things: either go for broke by attacking the USA, or give up their empire and retreat humbly to their home islands. No one with the slightest understanding of the Japanese national character and history would be in any doubt that they would choose the first option – even though they were pretty sure they would lose. Rather lose with honour than ignominiously surrender!

    FDR was kept in touch with everything the Japanese did. He knew their exact detailed plans, and the exact position of their fleet from hour to hour. He knew when the planes took off. His only concern was to make sure that no one on Hawaii knew.

    It’s interesting, for instance, that at the time of the attack on Pearl Harbor the only really valuable warships – the carriers – were out “on exercises”.

    It’s also perhaps significant that, as early as 1940, FDR placed advance orders for over 100 aircraft carriers to be delivered up to 1945.

    If in doubt, read the book. What can it hurt?

    • Agree: Antiwar7
  80. Fred,

    Have a look at this website: http://www.ae911truth.org

    Then, write an informed article.

    Been a fan of yours for well over a decade. . . this article is a disappointment.

    L

    • Agree: Tom Welsh
  81. Tom Welsh says:

    “For example, when the Twin Towers fell, huge steel beams were allegedly hurled long distances, proving the use of explosives, but the buildings also supposedly fell neatly in their “footprints,” proving “controlled demolition.” At least one of these has to be wrong”.

    Fred, Fred, Fred. Last I heard, controlled demolition did involve the use of explosives.

  82. Tom Welsh says:

    “Weirdly, CTs on the web become much angrier at me for doubting their theories than at the Israelis who, they assert, killed three thousand Americans. I do not recall hearing a demand for even a diplomatic protest, much less carpet bombing Tel Aviv, appropriate if Israel did it”.

    Ever heard of USS “Liberty”, Fred? Bombed and strafed, quite deliberately, by the Israelis with 34 dead and 171 wounded. But for the heroism and skill of one man, who managed to get the ship’s radio transmitter working for long enough to send a report to the nearby task force, the ship would have been sunk and every one of the crew killed.

    We are informed, with a straight face, that it was a case of mistaken identity and the Israelis thought “Liberty” was an Egyptian ship! Despite the huge US flags she was flying, and the obvious fact that the Israeli armed forces were extremely well-informed and diligent in their intelligence work.

    Yet, when the distress message was received and the task force commander scrambled jet fighters to go to the relief of “Liberty”, they were immediately ordered back to the carrier – on orders from Washington.

    No diplomatic complaint was ever made to Israel. And there was never any question of “carpet bombing Tel Aviv”. LBJ did seriously consider dropping nuclear bombs on Egypt, though.

    Anyone who is sceptical of ALL “conspiracy theories” might do well to start with USS “Liberty” and FDR’s role in Pearl Harbor.

    • Replies: @Anonymouse
  83. Levtraro says:

    ALL theories to explain 911 are Conspiracy Theories, but arguably the most absurd of those Conspiracy Theories is that 19 arabs with boxcutters led by a Saudi sheikh living in a cage in Afghanistan did 911.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  84. @Gordon K. Shumway

    Fred’s losing it.

    He never had it to start with.

    • LOL: W
  85. @Patrick McNally

    So there really has never existed any “official story” around 911

    Ever seen this?

    Or you might prefer the comic book version.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  86. While the theories themselves soon ceased to be interesting, the psychology of the believers fascinated me.

    The explanation I have come to believe over the years is that publicly committing to inane CTs is a costly form of social signaling.

    You are making yourself an easily targetable lolcow (e.g., this article).

    It is also, in the case of some CTs and demographics, physically dangerous. For instance, the boomers and up buying into COVID anti-vaxerism – and acting on it.

    Still, as costly signals, they help build uncompromising group solidarity in the face of what they see as a hostile regime. Although of course it’s not a strategic, thought out plan in the case of most of the movement participants (if often the higher IQ movement leaders take care not to imbibe their own Kool-Aid).

    • Disagree: Craig Nelsen
    • Troll: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @Weaver
    , @EuroNat
    , @Dumbo
  87. WTC 7 collapse proves that 9/11 was not planned and carried out by Islamic fanatics, which is the official story. What the public is left with is… conspiracy in practice.

    In his article about how smart the Jews are, Mr. Reed writes that Jesus was Jewish, white Euro and Amer guys are bowing to a Jewish boy, etc.
    Well, the Gospels were originally written in Ancient Greek language by people who read the Old Testament in Ancient Greek translation. That is proven by linguistic analysis but not widely known because linguistic research is boring to most people. The Gospels were then translated to Hebrew and Latin. That leaves us wondering who the first Christians were, and why Jews (back then and now) refuse to accept Christianity as a Judaistic sect, of which there were many at the time. And if you ask Rabbinic authority, they will tell you that the Gospels are not part of genuine Jewish religious culture. So, was Jesus a Jew, or a literary character, created by Greek literary experimentalists?

    Those are two epic fails by Mr. Reed – I discovered his articles just recently, and while entertaining, I won’t be reading any more. Thanks Mr. Reed!

  88. Anonymous[225] • Disclaimer says:

    Fred: “I’m untrained in demolitions therefore no one anywhere knows demolition.”

    Fred: “When could the explosives have been planted?”

    Answer: Late at night after the cleaning crews left, brought in in vans that were caught on video.

    • Replies: @CMC
  89. @Rich

    Fred doesn’t actually believe the crap he writes. He is looking for a pat on the head from his betters, and he knows his betters love it when one of the cleverer rubes mocks the other rubes for looking up and questioning the ruling class narrative. He thinks it makes him one of them. But it just makes him a pathetic old traitor who’ll die with no more than a pat on the head and nary an invitation to the Grand Ball.

    Why no mention of Building 7, Fred?

  90. Doris says:

    Ferdinando Imposimato (9 April 1936 – 2 January 2018) was an Italian magistrate and the honorary president of the Supreme Court of Italy.

    01:54:21
    “The 911 Attacks were a Global State Terror Operation, permitted by the administration of the USA, which had foreknowledge of the operation, yet remained intentionally unresponsive in order to make war against Afghanistan and Iraq. To put it briefly, the 911 events were an instance of the strategy of tension enacted by political and economic powers in the USA to seek advantages for the oil and arms industries. ” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5UyynjxAyw&t=2447s

  91. Wokechoke says:

    I’ll bite.

    1) The idea that JFK was gotten rid of by the Jews is a reasonable concept. Jews specialise in the assassination of Gentile leaders. Plenty of it in the Old Testament. The theory is that JFK blocked Israeli efforts to design build and deploy atomic weapons. There’s a paper trail where JFK is threatening Israel with sanctions if they do produce an Abomb. The theory is supported by the way Jack Rubinstein murdered Lee Harvey Oswald outside the police station in Dallas while LHO was under police and Ranger custody.

    There’s a list of heads of state who the Jews have definitely assassinated in modern history. One Czar and a Russian Prime Minister. There’s all sort of nuclear physicists and weapon designers they’ve murdered too.

    2) The FDR administration clearly wished to goad the Japanese into starting a war with the US. Oil sanctions and support for China clearly designed for this purpose. The specifics of the attack on Pearl Harbor are debatable. After the Royal Navy sank the French fleet in Oran and the Italian navy in Taranto the US should have been keeping the fleet at sea relentlessly. A cluster of ships at anchor is a target. FDR was a naval secretary strategist and did leave this fat target in operational range, just about. He may have hoped a counter strike was possible but the navy failed to strike the Japanese Carrier Strike Force that day by tracking the returning bombers to the carrier position.

    Leaving ships as bait is a very well known strategy.

  92. Would someone with genuine expertise give a fitting answer to this raving Mexican?

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  93. Anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says:

    I think the essence of Fred’s thesis is that he simply does not believe that the federal government, the Deep State, the insider elites, the grand puppetmasters, the shadowy string pullers, the ((())) cabal or whomever it is that really calls the shots are in the least bit competent enough to pull most of this stuff off. When he sees how reliably “they” fuck up what should be simple straightforward operations, like retreating from Vietnam or Afghanistan, his eyes roll back at contemplating how more complex schemes planned as exquisitely contrived long cons can ever be accomplished, and done so in absolute secrecy when half of Washington is comprised of leakers trying to make additional lucre on running their own side scams.

    Knowing the cast of characters occupying the centers of power in this country, I am quite ready, willing and able to believe that practically all of what we are told by both the official authorities and their dyed-in-the-wool nemeses is false narrative invented to manage events and capture our beliefs and obeisance. So I am skeptical of every purported move and counter-move on the great chessboard, the grand theatrical performance laid before us on every new day that dawns. Sure, I’ve got my biases like every functioning human mind does, but I’ve seen too much of this carnival for far too long not to be ready to change my thinking on a dime if required, simply due to the reliability (or total lack thereof) of the sources of information constantly fed to us the public. As they say, caveat emptor.

  94. Wokechoke says:
    @I say it was the people who did it

    Jesus is probably a Greek literary construct designed to critique and troll the kikes. The idea of a god man is anathema to Jews.

    • Replies: @gay troll
  95. BuelahMan says:

    It’s official. Fred has lost his mind and is no longer relevant. Time to shuttle him into oblivion by ignoring any notifications of Unz posting his stupid BS.

  96. David B says:

    Moronic drivel from Fred. Literally worthless. I think his brain is too far gone to seriously engage in the matters in question.

  97. Andreas says:

    I’m almost with Mr. Reed on this one. There are no CT’s that are consistent and stand alone.

    I don’t get it. Give me one story, about covid or the Towers, stick to it, show it clearly to be physically possible.

    Unfortunately, the official narratives die by the same sword. There are simply too many inconsistencies for them to be entirely believable. Unless, of course, one falls victim to the one damning fallacy on which they all ultimately stand and that is an appeal to authority.

    • Replies: @Craig Nelsen
  98. goyerrant says:

    Dear Fred, I’m deeply sorry to know that you are in such a big financial trouble.
    All the best!

  99. Anon[548] • Disclaimer says:

    Remember the Maine
    Belgian Babies Bayonted
    Negro Mother’s sterilized secretly
    Back Door to War (World II)
    US Army Conscripts subjected to A-Bomb tests
    Tonkin Gulf
    Germ Warfare tests over SF Bay
    Operation Northwoods
    Kuwaiti Incubator Babies
    Bosnian Rape Camps
    Sudanese Aspirin Factory
    3 WTC Towers 2 Planes
    Saddam’s WMDs
    Etc etc

    The list is endless.

  100. Anonymous[661] • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder if Fred will be allowed to work from home in Mexico after he is named Minister of Propaganda.

  101. Wokechoke says:
    @Anonymous

    The conspiracy stuff stems from the FACT that Jack Rubinstein shot Lee Harvey Oswald while Oswald was in custody. No one mentions this obvious fact in CT circles and JFK shooting industry: that Rubinstein was just getting rid of a loose end. The idea that Rubinstein might have been a Mossad asset is never mentioned. It’s an obvious idea a Jew might be working for his state interests, yet people get distracted by the CIA, Italian Mafia, Nixon, Castro etc. The Jews never like the Kennedy clan and Joe Kennedy was also a documented fan of Hitler.

    Any time a Jew commits a political act of violence it’s very possible they are acting under the guidance of their true nation.

    • Agree: Hal Womack
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  102. Fred in a tin foil keppa. Imagine that!

  103. @geokat62

    Might be wrong — but thought the actual term “conspiracy theory” was intro’d/popularised by the CIA to delegitimise any non-establishment narratives sometime after JFK…?

    • Agree: Rogue
  104. skiier says:

    Wow. Unbelievable.
    What a troll this writer is. Just call everyone crazy and offer no real refuting evidence to any CT’S.

    There was a nine month elevator renovation going on in the twin towers before 9/11. This allowed access to the the main structure of the building. The hot molten steel that was found in the rubble was another clue as well . Only a fool would believe that airplane fuel could melt steel. The twin towers was also an insurance job because those buildings were full of asbestos. It was cheaper to knock them down because we all know how expensive it is to mitigate and remove asbestos. The biggest clue was the way the 3rd building, building 7, came down in a 10sec freefall right into it it’s own footprint. Building 7 was “a building within a building” as it was reinforced to protect it against an attack like 9/11. U could have ran another building into and it wouldn’t have come down. And finally all the smoke from 9/11 was the most obvious clue. I have used Ferrite to weld copper and the smoke that comes from this process is thick and white and heavy and just like the smoke that came off the twin towers while the steel covered in Feritte was burning. Should I continue and tell you how the air force could not get its shit together and shoot down any of the “planes ” that day? Or how ANY plane managed to get within a mile of the Pentagon which is the most heavily fortified air space in the world?

    The bigger the lie it seems the more non-critical thinking people will believe it.

    • Agree: FreedomAndTruth
  105. Robjil says:

    If you want me to believe that the Israelis did do it, you have to show me that they could have done it.

    Well, Pelosi answered that question.

    https://www.albawaba.com/node/pelosis-remarks-us-israel-relations-highlights-us-hypocrisy-towards-israel-1289252

    “I have said to people when they ask me, If this Capitol crumbled to the ground, the one thing that would remain would be our commitment to our aid, I don’t even call it our aid, our cooperation with Israel. That’s fundamental to who we are.”

    Here is how 9 11 was done , it was “cooperation with Israel”. As Pelosi stated it is “fundamental” to who “we” (Israel firsters in the US gov.) we are.

    our cooperation with Israel. That’s fundamental to who we are.

  106. Tripps says:

    Wow, the comments are 100% loonies

  107. The towers were brought down by safe controlled demolitions off public cameras. The rest is Hollywood you watched on TV and have been arguing about endlessly.

  108. DanFromCT says:

    Equating real evidence with absurdities about aliens and so on is called poisoning the well, and has its roots in goy toadeaters in the Jewish press like Fred, with a history going back to the Leo Frank trial and hanging. Take an overwhelmingly conclusive body of evidence proving Frank’s or, in this case, Israel’s guilt and then cleverly plant side stories that are absurd but can subsequently be pointed out as untrue as a means of discrediting the real evidence.

    This too-clever-by-half gambit is rather obviously the mark of a Jewish water boy on the payroll or CIA press stringer. What’s worth pointing out is that Eretz (Greater) Israel has as many residing in the United States as Israel proper, with the important distinction that there are far more agents of Eretz Israel here than over there. According to the Israeli press itself, there may be as many as 1 million bearing Israeli citizenship in the US that common sense tells us are de facto unregistered espionage agents of Eretz Israel.

    It was Eretz Israel’s people living here and over there who were behind the Lavon Affair; stole our atomic secrets, nuclear material from NUMEC, and nuclear triggers under Netanyahu; assassinated JFK and RFK; tried to sink the USS Liberty with all hands; permitted the Marine barracks in Beirut to be blown up; stole \$4.4 trillion of America’s working men and women’s wealth under Greenspan and an equal amount during the last crisis; and, were responsible for 9/11.

    Fred is also woefully ignorant about the nature of evidence, either scientific or legal, inasmuch as individual pieces of evidence that by themselves are inconclusive or even weak can and do add together to prove probability sufficient to meet the criteria of Israel’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It would be helpful to post those photos of Fred decked out in leather with a cigar in his mouth like something from the Castro District as a reminder of whom we’re wasting our time on. No Marine ever lost so much of his manhood as to depict himself in a professional photo as a sexual degenerate.

    • Agree: W
    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  109. ariadna says:

    From Fred Reed’s latest literary effort rises a swarm of questions like a cloud of horseflies if one approaches a putrid carcass.
    What is it really?
    • An awkward, bad style pastiche of Joyce’s run-on monologue in Ulysses? Neah, too much punctuation that breaks the flow.
    • An attempt to laugh off rational questions posed by many intelligent people (whose shoes he wouldn’t be qualified to shine) by misstating them and mixing them up with the kind of ignorant hypotheses thrown to the public by other fred reeds as red herrings? Like saying “Ha, ha, the Earth supposedly is revolving around the sun and the Moon is made of green cheese.”
    Why does he do it?
    • Is he really that stupid? Unlikely. Even if he were, low intelligence is compatible with common sense. He is consciously and deliberately lying.
    • Does it really matter if he is lying so blatantly because he is a tool, specifically hoping to benefit for this service in the form of security/protection and/or monetarily? No.
    • Does it matter whose tool he is, the Jewish elite or the intelligence/tech apparatus that monitors our lives (overlapping interests)? No.
    Who profits from this kind of failed satire, which is a defense of the grand official lie is a rhetorical question.
    I SAY IT WAS UTTER DISHONESTY, NOT ‘POLTERGEIST,’ WHO WROTE THIS SHAMEFUL SCREED.

    • Agree: Jim H
  110. Che Guava says:

    Fred is just being childish here.

    He is conflating conspiracy theories that have a great deal of evidence with others that have little.

    Rosenfeldt (and sure, I am being to some extent ironic in using that spelling, but will never know if it is real)deliberately allowing the Pearl Harbour as the best example of not a conspiracy theory, but reality.

    Why were all of the U.S. carriers based in Honolulu hiding in an ocean gyre at the time of the attack?

    Why were the senior military officials in Hawaii never warned about the abundant sigint re. the impending attack, and indeed, used as scapegoats after the event?

    I know the English ‘cock-up vs. conspiracy’.

    In that case, most definitely conspiracy.

    As for the corona bullshit, Fred is in the at-risk age range, so that likely colours opinions.

    The corona phenom. is most definitely bullshit, as anyone reading stats knows.

    In this case, though, I think the ‘cock-up’ factor may be dominant. Many governments, officials, and media people dug themselves holes of lies so deep that they can never admit the truth, that it was never any worse than a middling flu season, the vaccines have no prophylactic effect and are dangerous and frequently harmful (the Sinovax an exception, perhaps some of the Russian ones also exceptions), etc.

  111. ariadna says:

    If giving space to Reed is the price that needs to be paid to continue publishing Giraldi and Guyénot it is totally acceptable: over Reed one can easily scroll and never read another piece of offal signed by him.

    • Thanks: Jim H
  112. Typical conversation:

    CT: “I don’t think Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.”

    Fred: “So, you believe aliens have in-bred with the Bilderbergers, eh?”

    Why is it that when someone questions The Official Government Explanation of a criminal act, the response is to make an ad hominem attack based on a speculative scientific possibility?

    And, if these incidents, Pearl Harbor, JFK, 9/11, etc. have such simple explanations, why is there any information that is “classified” decades after these simple to explain criminal acts?

    Like Eugene Hasenfuss testifying before the Iran/Contra hearings stating the CIA was flying guns to Central America and cocaine back. He’s either lying to Congress and should be prosecuted or he’s telling the truth, in which case some heads ought to roll at Langley. Neither happened. “Why?” is all I’m asking.

    Please, Fred, explain it to me.

  113. shotgun6 says:

    I agree that most CTs are, on the face, absolutely insane. But, to be fair, the nonsense coming from the government, that is also provably false, on so many issues, simply feeds the fire. Because, if you can’t trust the government to tell the truth on things that can be checked, how can you trust them to tell the truth on things that can’t be? One feeds the other.

    To wit; we just had “two righteous drone strikes” targeting, “with extreme precision”, known “Isis-K terrorists”, that were resounding successes, although the government can’t tell us who they killed, either because “it’s classified”, or because they simply have no clue – “someone told me to shoot and I did and target went BOOM, so it must be righteous”.

    MY THOUGHTS; ON THE DAY THEY ANNOUNCED THE STRIKES, WAS “BULLSHIT, THEY ARE LYING”. I guess that makes me a “conspiracy theorist”??

    Except; for the one hit in a populous area, with witnesses and journalists on the ground, we turned out to have murdered (yes, murdered; there was no “fog of war”, or “heat of battle”, we stealthily tracked and evaluated, over 8 hours, the movements of an innocent civilian and then butchered him and his family in cold blood) 10 civilians, including 7 little kids, none of whom have any ties to ISIS-K whatsoever. OOPs. But of course, the earlier Nangahar hit remains “righteous” (again, even though we can’t say who we killed, exactly, because well, we don’t really know…I mean, because it’s classified). Now, why would I believe that?

    MAYBE we killed a “terrorist” in Nangahar; or maybe (and probably more likely) we killed three goats and a chicken. The government certainly won’t tell us, one way or another, but we DO know, from whistleblowers, that some 90% of “targeted” drone hits end up killing innocent civilians, sometimes in conjunction with a “righteous target”, and sometimes all by their little bitty innocent civilian selves. OOPS.

    I’m not going to argue the morality of “drone strikes”; that’s a subject for a different day; but I am stating, categorically, that our government, too often, screws the pooch and kills people by mistake, and will never own up to it, until incontrovertible proof is presented to them, and then they’ll still lie, evade, equivocate, and make excuses for “the tragic mistake” while continuing to assert that in those OTHER cases, where such proof of incompetent tomfuckery isn’t incontrovertible, that they were absolutely precise and correct in everything they did.

    If they’ll lie about that, they’ll lie about everything; and no one should believe anything they say, ever.

  114. Well, it was Bin Laden. But it was Bin Ladin Associates Inc., the biggest corporation in the world as to the construction, maintenance and controlled demolition of derricks, high-rises and industrial buildings. They are about 67 brothers, of three different wives. Officially Osama was the accursed son, who instead of showing gratitude had revolted against his Saudi parents which had provided him and his siblings with the highest standard of living in the world, and rather taken the side of dirt-poor Muslims. But that is a legend since that son was always invited and never failed to show up and be photographed when the big smalah threw a big party anywhere in Europe or in Texas, where they had access to the dream estates of the Bush family, their biggest clients as they are the owners of most derricks. The headquarters of that corporation are in Jeddah, KSA. Arab spoiled brats like they are don’t like to engage in STEM disciplines too deeply, the technical part of their work they preferably hire nearby Israelis for.

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  115. Proximaking says: • Website

    Any 911 discussion that ignores Judy Wood’s forensic analysis of what actually happened that day is simply part of a disinformation campaign. See video link. She spends far too much time on the firemen etc but I guess she like most women likes firemen.

    She gets a couple of bits wrong, it was a perfectly natural event after the planes hit due to the self similarity of the buildings, the source of random information (the fires), the building’s height (look up the work of Dayton Miller whose recreation of the Michelson-Morley experiment showed that light acts differently at low elevations compared to high elevations and if light is different then matter is too) and the counter-rotating storms and their electrical aspects. Also the “jumpers” were hypothermic i.e. chilled as the metal in the experiments she filmed were and not hot as she had thought.

    But apart from those two gross errors she was pretty much on the money. She also ignored the obvious religious connotations of the two witnesses, the two candlesticks, standing before the god of the earth (Mammon, Wall Street) and the fact that on the ground only cars and buses i.e. big oil products were damaged by whatever emanated from the buildings as they turned to dust and we know big oil and gas in the form of Bush and Cheney were behind it. The holes looked like mouths and the religious text also talks of fire proceeding out of their mouths to destroy those who had attacked them i.e. big oil and gas. Anyway she didn’t go into any of that but no-one is perfect.

  116. @I say it was the people who did it

    WTC7 was collapsed by Bin Laden people too, pushing for radical Islam in their own way. Osama was not alone. He had 66 brothers at that time as co-owners of the biggest enterprise in the world in construction, maintenance and controlled demolition of derricks and towers.

    • Replies: @Liosnagcat
  117. Lah says:

    Go get you jab and retire Fred

  118. Trinity says:
    @Weaver

    Grunge came out of a depressing place and it was depressing crap. Seattle = rainy, dreary, overpriced, leftist loons, (((Starbucks,))) serial killers, etc. No wonder everyone out there is so f*cked up. Besides Cobain, I think there was another “grungy” guy who committed suicide or maybe even more. It was definitely a way to promote alcoholism, drugs and depression among the White youth at the time. Just as “faggy” glam rock was a way to promote homosexuality among youth in the Seventies. I love rock & roll but you can definitely tell that there was something more to it than just the music. Most of the lead singers were effeminate males who were always hinting at homosexuality, promoting drug or alcohol abuse, promiscuity, hating your parents or older generations, etc., etc. The fact that The Beatles, The Stones, and other headline acts were lead by effeminate and suspect homosexuals/bisexuals or at least they hinted at experimentation is no accident IMO.

    Cue: It’s Only Rock & Roll ( But I Like It) by The Rolling Stones.

    • Replies: @Weaver
    , @Truth
  119. Fred, you are too easily, as you say, “baffled.”

  120. Mr. Ed says:

    @Reed:

    Your time was up some time ago. Retire with your Mexicana, please!

  121. haha says:
    @restless94110

    You captured it very well: Smug. And it is “Breathtaking in its successful feat of getting literally everything wrong” as you further summed up.

    I suspect the real Fred Reed has had his identity stolen and some alphabet soup types are penning down articles purporting to be from him.

    Mr. Reed, do you see how much benefit of doubt I am extending to you?

    • Agree: restless94110
  122. _dude says:
    @anon

    This is possibly the worst article I have ever read on unz. I was waiting for the punchline. Either be informative, funny, or something else. But don’t be stupid.

    • Agree: Mevashir
    • LOL: haha, Trinity
  123. @James Speaks

    No, my fellow human, the real question is why did the towers (all three) fall?

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  124. Truth says:

    Is there a reason all youze guys are suddenly going back to a 20 year old event?

    (cough…hasbara…cough, cough)

    • LOL: Trinity
    • Replies: @Trinity
  125. ruralguy says:
    @MadFiddler

    Mad fiddler here. Loved the blue pills. I’m luxuriating in a nice schzio dream, on the unz site. The network is wired with det cord, so don’t bother with the red pills. I do need my fiddle back. Rome is burning.

  126. @anon

    Perhaps he was roaring drunk, in the great tradition of journalists of old.

  127. TREG says:

    So Fred has never listened to the hours long confession by James Files, the grassy knoll shooter? Oh well.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  128. gay troll says:
    @Wokechoke

    Jesus is probably a Greek literary construct designed to critique and troll the kikes. The idea of a god man is anathema to Jews

    True enough of the Roman Gospels but Paul was written first. He was writing in Greek because the Old Testament was first published in Greek, and Paul says Jesus Christ was revealed by the Greek OT scriptures. Jesus (aka Joshua) is a famous Old Testament hero, while Christ (aka Messiah) is famous Old Testament title for a Jewish King. Paul was the first to describe “Jesus Christ”. It it also possible that Judaism itself was invented by the Greeks in Egypt as a way to lay claim to Jerusalem.

    JC was originally a Jewish literary construct designed to entice goyish donations to Jerusalem. This is what Paul says, that Jesus Christ appeared only to him and a few others after being impaled on a stake by archons somewhere below the seventh heaven. Paul says some Jewish laws are too strict, especially that part about ripping off your foreskin for YHWH, so if some Gentiles want to circumcise their hearts instead of their penises, they can still partake in the fulfillment of a post mortem (i.e. heavenly) Zion. As long as they provide Paul with a hot meal now and a donation for his Earthly church in Jerusalem.

    When the Romans destroyed centralized Jewry in 70 AD, they repurposed Paul’s pamphlets to more deeply criticize Mosaic law, to lampoon Jewish beliefs and to graft a pagan miracle worker into history as the King which the Jews spurned to their great detriment.

  129. anon[509] • Disclaimer says:

    So, somebody believes that individuals and groups would work together cooperatively to advance their common interests?

    What a silly idea.

  130. Beeboy says:

    I always find Fred’s blurbs both interesting and mostly truthful. However, on this one, he completely ignores the laws of physics ( or doesn’t understand). Those buildings could not possibly have come down in the manner that they did without internal detonations.

    • Disagree: Wizard of Oz
  131. Weaver says:
    @Trinity

    To name some you possibly haven’t heard of, off top of head:

    I like country (Alabama), folk (Celtic Woman, Dougie MacLean, and Show of Hands), Enya, folk metal (Blind Guardian “Clans are Marching” “Valhalla” “Nightfall in Middle Earth”) and whatever Sabaton is (“To Hell and Back”), French (Mes Aieux “Degeneration” “Toune en on”) just to name some you’ve possibly never heard of.

    Rolling Stones is neat. Queen was raging. The gay stuff doesn’t bother me as much as bands like Rage Against the Machine which are anti-West. I could name many like that, political. I remember this industrial rock video that was incredibly degenerate. I had zero interest, zero appeal in such negative thinking, but others liked it; it was like searching for something, anything to appreciate in pure rot. One guy at my school had a Satanic Bible and tried to kill himself after reading that and Nietzsche.

    Thankfully the Internet changed things a bit.

    • Replies: @Trinity
    , @Dr. Krieger
  132. I have been reading Fred for years. The best part of Fred’s writings is to read the comments.

    Fred provokes a lot of thought and response. He has many readers and they come from a myriad of backgrounds and experiences.

    As for muslims, look at Dearborn Michigan. They have populated and made changes in that city. Muslims have learned over the past centuries that a military invasion would be difficult. What they have been involved with is a quiet invasion. The occasional attack to attract attention over the years. What one should see and realize is that with America paying for everything, a muslim can come to America with his three or four wives, settle into a community and social services will pay for his kids food, education and welfare. They then also go forth and enumerate… Allauh Akbar will be a common term.

    As for the other theories….Will we ever find out why JFK was killed? IMHO JFK would not be a democrat if he were alive today.

    Politics have gotten waaaayyy out of hand…the politicians have become millionaires by diverting all they money that they have access to or have their hands in others pockets. TERM LIMITS!!

    Our Nation is in a disaster with what has been going on…

    God Bless The United States Of America!!

  133. Trinity says:
    @Truth

    Emanuel Goldstein types.

  134. Weaver says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    It’s painted as if those who don’t question the vax or 9/11 are somehow smart, and so drones just assume, “this is how smart people act.” They play chess, listen to classical, talk about physics, do all the things smart people are supposed to do. And trusting in the official narrative, maybe believing Putin poisoned various people or that Assad gassed his own, is associated with being “smart.”

    It helps form societal unity among the herd when they believe crazy things about China, NK, Iran, 9/11, whatever the latest event is that smart people unquestionably accept as true, without thought.

  135. Doy says:

    I see Fred subscribes to the, “Osama did it from a cave because he hates freedom” narrative. Whatever helps you sleep at night in the waning days of the American Empire.

    • Replies: @thotmonger
  136. @anon

    Yes – I too used to enjoy reading Fred. Unfortunately, as he approaches the end of his career, he seems to trying to re-establish himself as a solid, main-stream writer, rather than the somewhat funky, offbeat guy lurking within.

    Over the last several years he has certainly produced increasing amounts of trash, at times expressing rather open contempt for those who read his work… for example, his bizarre mythologizing about Hecuba being the Queen of Afghanistan, or some such BS. Increasing, Fred, we don’t really care.

  137. Rambam says:

    Hard to believe Fred is a writer, he has so little imagination.

    Everyone knows all the Supposed kennedy brothers faked their deaths with the exception of teddy.
    Intelligence just wants you to think they were murdered/killed, they don’t really care if you think Oswald did it or the Mafia, Sirhan Sirhan or whoever.

    Fred is such a mashugana.

    Here’s a whole collection of fake, doctored, Kennedy photos:
    https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/john-f.-kennedy-family

    Study them closely and put the whole Kennedy delusion behind you.

    Shalom

  138. saggy says: • Website

    Excellent article. I’ve come to view the truthers as just complete idiots. Even the intelligent ones, which makes it somewhat inexplicable. Example: Unz comments in an article that he was nearly convinced that no plane hit the pentagon, writing …

    Am I sure that no plane hit the Pentagon? Certainly not, but the (lack of) evidence seems pretty strong to me.

    So, I ask a simple question which shows what idiocy this idea is …

    Good grief. How in hell did the plotters orchestrate the disappearance of the plane and all the people on board? Or did that question not occur to you?

    Which he ignores.

    The truthers are idiots or Zio shills IMO, the payoff for the Zionists is that the truthers imply or state outright that the government, the police, the FAA, the military, the media, the congress are all traitors and plotting against us, therefore (implicitly) the govt. needs to be overthrown, and this is the real goal of communism/cultural marxism/Zionists.

    • Troll: Trinity
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  139. lavoisier says: • Website

    I have to applaud Ron Unz for his absolute commitment to free speech and the open airing of opinions no matter how poorly argued, thoughtless, and absurd they are.

    Mr. Reed should thank Mr. Unz for giving him a platform to present his irrational “satirical” essays to a wider audience.

    Do not censor Mr. Reed. Ridicule him. He makes jokes about incredibly serious matters and trivializes the search for truth and the very human need for justice.

    And tip your hat to Ron Unz and his commitment to free speech. Because without that commitment, no one, anywhere, would care to read anything written by Fred Reed.

    • Thanks: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Antiwar7
  140. Anonymous[419] • Disclaimer says:

    Silly column.

    How the perpetrators got into the towers and installed the necessary explosives has been covered. Not a major obstacle to belief in any way. All quite plausible.

  141. Trinity says:
    @Weaver

    Yeah, the Stooooooooones are one of my all time favorite bands. I do not like The Beatles though. Check out the official video of The Stones hit from the mid-1970s titled, “Hot Stuff” with Billy Preston on the keyboards. Very homo. And who can forget the David Bowie and Mick Jagger cover of “Dancing In The Streets?” Very, very homo as well. Yep, those dudes back in the day wore plenty of eye-liner and the dance moves would make Tina Turner blush. Jagger definitely was influenced by Turner. Those dudes in Motley Crew when they first came out were nothing more than guys in drag. lolol. I think the song, “Dude Looks Like A Lady” by Aerosmith was about Vince Neil. lolol.

    • Replies: @Weaver
  142. Truth says:
    @Trinity

    Most of the lead singers were effeminate males who were always hinting at homosexuality, promoting drug or alcohol abuse, promiscuity, hating your parents or older generations,

    Oh, so they were White Nationalist Whiggers?

    …..Heh….heh…heh…

    • Replies: @Trinity
  143. GMC says:
    @gotmituns

    Another question G – did the insurance companies sue the Structural Engineering Companies because the airplanes took the Towers down – according to the ” official investigations’. That would be a really big story in the news and in Construction Journals. My bet is they did not because they knew the Engineers would open up a huge court case – similiar to what the Architects and Engineers did – in order to get a re-investigation Grand Jury – which has Stalled. Imagine that ! The whole thing stinks and the 9/11 official version is grounds for a bloodbath.

  144. @Bragadocious

    The endless hilarity of the “grieving” relatives of the slain alone makes S**dy H**k the most certain and transparent of all conspiracies. It was a PTA-level After School Special for the nation: I can readily believe that the locals dreamed it up on their own and sold it to the intelligence agencies rather than the other way around, it’s so hysterically amateurish.

    I think my fave still remains the 14-ish year old sister of the “slain” schoolteacher. As she and the rest of the family are being interviewed standing in a row outside in new falling snow, the reporter says to her, “You were just telling us how this snow reminds you of your sister?” “This snow is TOTALLY my sister!” she exclaims, beaming dopily and bouncing on her heels.

    Her sister, who was suddenly shot to death the day–or was it supposed to be two days?– before.

    They also loved doing double-speak about seeing loved ones again, which the rubes eat up as referring to Heaven. “You think you’re daughter’s in a safe place?” Anderson Cooper asks one of the (suspiciously gray for the moms of 1st graders) grieving moms and she wickedly replies, “Oh, she’s safe! She’s safe!” Or the boyfriend of another slain (teacher, let’s assume) asked by the person behind the camera, “You feel like you’re going to see her again.” “Oh, I KNOW I’m going to see her again! This morning I turned over in bed and I could smell her on my pillow!”

  145. Beagle says:

    Using the FDR example is especially hilarious to me. I met General Elliott Thorpe when I was a kid. In person, and in his book East Wind, Rain, he recounted how he warned DC of IJN fleet activity heading to Pearl Harbor and the other attacks in the Pacific. The operation was offered up on a platter by Dutch intelligence.

    Billy Mitchell outlined the contours of an attack on Pearl Harbor over a decade before it happened. Moreover, he demonstrated the vulnerability of ships facing air power.

    Do you even realize putting the Pacific Fleet in the precarious position it was in (Hawaii) was a controversial decision? But FDR made sure Battleship Row was there.

    It seems like your role is to man the barracades of especially stupid mainstream narratives.

    • Thanks: Weaver
  146. Mulegino1 says:

    Then came Nine Eleven and Covid and there were millions of conspiracy theorists (CTs)…

    Most of their theories were nuttier than Aunt Polly’s prize fruitcake, that Dad poured rum on every year at Christmas and lit on fire.

    Presumably, those nutty conspiracy theories would include the one about 19 amateur pilots led by a dying man in a cave. You know, the ones who performed feats of aviation that were not only marvels, but miracles. They could fly 767’s at impossible air speeds near sea level- no doubt the miracle working jinn were aiding them- and make them disappear without a trace into steel framed skyscrapers. They could demolish not two, but three such skyscrapers using only two airliners. Then, one of them flew a 757 a few feet over the Pentagon lawn at hundreds of miles per hour, managing to penetrate the recently reinforced facade at the very location where auditors were investigating a missing two trillion dollars of “defense” money, and penetrate a couple of rings of the most heavily defended building in the world. They also managed to make another large commercial airliner vanish into a mine shaft or crater.

    Yet he calls those who question this ludicrous fantasy “conspiracy theorists,” thereby following the 1967 CIA playbook to the letter.

    “Dad’s rum” doesn’t hold a candle to the bad Mezcal which F.R. has been imbibing.

    Reed must be running for head sabbath goy.

    • Thanks: GeneralRipper
  147. TKK says:

    Boiled down, Fred is stating that the Government does not lie.

    That we are fools to believe that there is something rotten in a process where Senators run for office with a net worth of \$35K, and in a few years are multi millionaires with private jets.

    This is a good thing as it saves us time. We can skip his articles completely now. He is Rachel Maddow with a taco, arrogantly laughing at our American demise at the hands of the Depraved Elites he supports and provides cover with his worm words.

    Keep laughing, Fred. Those sons of Montezuma “have a Gaze as Blank and Pitiless as the Sun.”

    Adios.

  148. Trinity says:
    @Truth

    Stop it, now. Stop In The Name Of Love before you break my heart, Troof. I can list some homo looking Black singers like Luther Ingram, Luther Van Dross etc. Or even that drag queen, Sylvester.

    Cue: If Loving You Is Wrong by Lean Rimes . Great cover and one of small bundle of country tunes that I like. I once blasted off in the space ship at 2001 Odyssey to a version of this tune done by Luther Ingram. Shout out to Ruby.

  149. Weaver says:
    @Trinity

    Wow, I hadn’t realized things got that bad. I knew you’d hear about Satanism, which is basically individualism, within the Metal scene. Also, of course, fuzzy, generic religion was used subtly within the music scene.

    The songs I linked, I’ve had people tell me it was feminine to listen to women sing girlie songs, like Enya, but I disagree. I like women. Some of the other songs, by men, are about war, great for when exercising, if you’re doing endurance. However, taking breaks exercising might avoid muscle waste. With all the chatting I’m doing here, I haven’t even been to gym recently, maybe will today.

    My point, I think female songs are just fine. That’s usually what I listen to around women also. But only things like Celtic Woman, not Britney Spears.

    Anyway, I appreciate the info.

  150. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    ‘“Diabolical Mossad agents, pretending to be Arabs, talked the hijackers into the idea of the hijackings and gave them funding.”

    ‘This is almost certainly, like ~99% probably, what happened, and what I have always assumed was the truth.’

    I wouldn’t put the probability at 99%, but it could be an accurate characterization of what happened. There was certainly some sort of very large Israeli operation that took place in the US at the time, and at least part of it was directly connected with 9/11.

    • Replies: @SMK
  151. ‘Fret’ – your SCHTICK of writing STYLE cannot carry you without some substance – and in this case, it’s lacking substance beyond vacuousity.
    Are you trying out for a stint on CNN? Maybe DaWhiteHouse press secretary?
    Willful ignorance abounds in our society because it pays well – always has – looks like you’re on your way.

  152. Nate D. says:

    Yeah Fred, I worked in the office furniture business for years & never did an installation in an empty office space, which a hundred story building would never contain – everybody moves in & then stays forever. And if the grassy knoll was a bad location for a sniper then only conclusion one can logically make is that it had to be a single shooter from the book depository that just so happened to be a killed himself a few days later by a terminally ill gangster. And of course Jeffery Epstein committed suicide.

    Conspiracy theories can be interesting or dull and usually wrong and probably never exactly right, but if you want to try to discredit them all at least try to put a little real thinking behind the effort. Otherwise retire from writing and stop taking up space.

    • Agree: ariadna
  153. An unspecified number of trained demolitionists of unspecified origin, disguised in an unspecified manner, planted a large but unspecified quantity of explosive of unspecified origin over an unspecified number of days or months in an unspecified number of places of unspecified nature (supporting elements, perhaps) concealing both the explosives and their planting thereof from thousands of employees in an unspecified manner, the explosives being connected for detonation in an unspecified way. Otherwise it all seems clear. The explosive was either thermite, which isn’t, or nanothermite, which I have never encountered in relation to demolitions. I have never seen any indication of the slightest technical grasp of the field. How many are familiar with pentaerythritol tetranitrate, 2,4,6-trinitrotoluene, gamma-aminobutyric acid, salvarsan, or 1,4-diphenyl-polywannacrackerene? Why does nobody answer the question of how it was done?

  154. Ron Unz says:

    Well, I think it’s pretty obvious that my own American Pravda series is the primary target of Fred Reed’s very insulting column, given that more than half of the theories he so harshly ridicules are strongly advocated in those articles.

    My series runs around 350,000 words, and involved many years of intensive research and analysis. Along the way, I probably read at least two or three hundred serious non-fiction books, many of them by some of America’s most highly-regarded academic scholars and most prestigious journalists, and also digested a multitude of other articles and podcast discussions.

    Meanwhile, I doubt Fred read a single book in preparation for this 1,600 word column, and probably cranked it out in just a few hours of effort, occasionally taking time off to grin at his own hilarious jokes.

    That striking imbalance demonstrates the tremendous wealth of universal knowledge Fred had acquired during his noted career as a police reporter at The Washington Times, in sharp contrast with my own extremely meager and deficient academic and scholarly endeavors.

    For those interested in joining Fred in producing devastating critiques of my research work, here’s a link to the entire series, now also conveniently available as an eBook:

    https://www.unz.com/ebook/our-american-pravda-series-ebook/

  155. The irony is that not only is Fred effectively covering for Israel and its role in 9/11 here by conflating the reality of that with every flamboyant conspiracy theory he can think of, many of the posters are helping him out.

    They’re insisting on the reality of those very same fantasies. At some point, people have to realize that not every delusion they can construct therefore occurred — and the net effect of doing so will simply be to cast doubt on all questionings of the official story.

    Fred and some of the posters might as well be working as a team. It’s a kind of good cop/bad cop routine — and at the end of it, the actual crimes have vanished under it all.

    • Replies: @MCMLXXII
  156. Fred,

    I read your article to two WW2-veteran friends of mine (both confined to nursing homes) and they loved it. Thanks for making their day.

  157. @A Half Naked Fakir

    I suspect that is simply a completely lost cause, a cold dead end, and a waste of time and effort to just about everybody who has better things to do.

    As long as Reed continues to get paid by somebody for submitting quickly-slapped-out, lazy, easy, predictable and effort-free garbage investigating nothing and simply calling other people with different views idiots and dupes, he will continue to do it.

    So would many people. So would I, probably. Wouldn’t you ?

    This website is ABOUT alternative views, friend ! Thank God for Ron Unz.

  158. Trumpeter says: • Website

    Fred, you are an awesome thinker and writer. But you do your cause a disservice by using straw man arguments.

    “Obama wasn’t a US citizen. Covid doesn’t exist.”

    The issue was rather that Obama was a natural born citizen, not a native born citizen.

    Covid does exist. But…there is no source of Covid 19 collected anywhere. The PCR test was created using other corona virus fragments and common cold virus. This would be important if a lab wanted to calibrate or verify the testing equipment and testing system as a whole.

    I amnot familiar enough with the other conspiracy theories to judge, but geeze Fred two bad exames in a row? Staw man arguments?

  159. @TREG

    Have you ever been to Dealy Plaza? I you had, you would have realized the grassy knoll is not a knoll – it’s the top of the embankment where the three streets converged to go under the RR overpass. The entire arena has the feel of a shooting gallery. It’s not very big and a sinlge shooter in the Book Depository could have done it.

    • Replies: @elysianfield
  160. Redman says:

    The use of the term conspiracy theory is a logical fallacy born of arrogance. All the great philosophers would be considered conspiracy theorists in today’s America.

    Some theories have more objective evidence than others. This is true. But as Popper noted, almost all of life is a theory to some extent.

    To label something a “CT” is generally a lazy man’s way our. Putting one’s fingers in his ears to avoid thinking too hard.

    • Replies: @Anon
  161. If the aim is to blame Israel, I can cook up a better story in two minutes: Diabolical Mossad agents, pretending to be Arabs, talked the hijackers into the idea of the hijackings and gave them funding. Bingo. This would be almost impossible to disprove (or prove), could be applied to the CIA or anyone else desired, and leave the “official story” functioning. But this would be boring.

    I wish someone would explain why CT need to have fantastic scenarios (Jews setting thermite bombs along the outer columns while watering plants and selling art) when a simple one like yours would suffice.

    I know more about materials and structures than 99.9% of your readers, and I have seen nothing to suggest that anything but fires started by the jets precipitated steel yielding, then structural collapse.

    Most laymen get lost on the steel yielding part. They think steel is at full strength until it melts. Ask them if this is what they believe.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @showmethereal
  162. Ragno says:

    “When you’re from Mississippi and you’re a conservative and you’re a Christian, there are a lot of people that don’t like that. I fell into their trap and so I have only myself to blame.”

    Thus did Senator Trent Lott explain his downfall to the Associated Press. Dig this paragraph from New York’s Daily News:

    “‘This is like Hilary [Clinton] talking about “the vast right-wing conspiracy.” He’s delusional,’ said a GOP lobbyist, whose organization worked behind the scenes to push out Lott.”

    Let me get this straight. A guy who “worked behind the scenes” to topple Lott says Lott is “delusional” for thinking people were working behind the scenes to topple him.

    How can anyone possibly believe in conspiracy theories, when the conspirators themselves scoff at them? And if you don’t believe that everyone in Washington is honest, you must be paranoid.

    Joe Sobran wrote that in a column called The Regime of the Sneaky. (Like most of his columns, it’s well worth reading.) The same leftist-dominated media that marginalized Sobran into a squeaky voice on the Internet – and then dogpiled him the minute he was declared dead – long ago filed their obituaries for Fred Reed well ahead of time.

    I’m sad to say all of Fred’s mockery of conspiracy nuts won’t rescue his reputation like a late-arriving cavalry charge. While Fred’s been enjoying the refried beans and cerveza down Mexico way, the character assassins were busy memorializing some of Fred’s less-than-generous summaries of Black America into giant neon signs, just to remind tomorrow’s obituary writers and sober-minded columnists that here was one of America’s most hideous racists, who thought we would forget because he’d occasionally praise Jews and attack conspiracy theorists. (He could’ve saved time and column inches by simply adopting the Times of London’s all-purpose “Jew hatred is behind all conspiracy theories”, or the Irish Times’ “Anti-Semitism lurks behind all modern conspiracy theories”, or Vox’s “Conspiracy theories behind anti-Semitic violence in New York”….maybe Fred can point out that none of these worthies has the honesty or courage to point out that anti-Semitic violence in major metropolii has its roots in Modern Negro Thought. Hell, Fred, they’re gonna parboil you anyway, so you might as well.)

    From that same Sobran column:

    What is it about the word conspiracy that provokes the instant smirk and snicker? The world is thick with dishonest people, and they don’t always act alone. They have a way of finding each other and acting corporately. Even “the D.C. sniper” turned out to be a team.

    People in government conspire all the time. They keep countless secrets from us, allegedly for our own good; and the inevitable result is that we can never really know what the government is doing.

    This means that we also can’t know what we are voting about. To the extent that government withholds important information from its subjects, it makes nonsense of the idea of self-government, and it can expect to be mistrusted, feared, and hated. When it also constricts their remaining freedoms, it practically makes “paranoia” a necessity of survival.

    Thomas Jefferson said that the basis of free government is not “confidence” — trust and faith in our rulers — but “jealousy” — skepticism and suspicion. The more trust our rulers demand of us, the less they deserve to be trusted. Government secrets remain secret long after they have served their supposed purpose. Conspiratorial habits are hard to break….even when the original enemy has ceased to exist.

    You could even get the impression that the U.S. Government regards the American people as the enemy.

    • Thanks: Weaver
  163. Actually the so-called grassy knoll was not surrounded on all sides by busy urban streets, as Reed asserts. One side backed up against rail lines.

    • Agree: James Speaks
  164. Dystopian says:
    @Gina Schrank

    I have always been suspicious of Mr. Unz. His open adoration of the CCP and his support of the clot shot certainly aligns him with the ruling elite. That said this is still a fun site to read and comment on. Deplatforning in 3.2.1…..

  165. https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/frances-long-time-vaccine-policy-chief-covid-policy-is-completely-stupid-and-unethical

    Just replace the photo of the tin foil hat guy with a mental image of Fred wearing a Sombrero and doing tequila shots with speedy Gonzalez.

    Because the Govt is a lairs collective the average Joe is left to speculate on his own about what really happened.

    Who knows, maybe Mr. Reed really does believe in the path of a magic bullet, that FDR had no clue about the Japs attacking Pearly Harbor, that no foreign govts (including our own which is not a legit american patriotic govt) were involved in either allowing or participating in 911

  166. So Fred, explain a couple of things that you Normies (N’s) in your sagely smugness surely know the answer to.
    1. How could the Twin Towers come down in under 10 seconds each, that is to say, at free fall speed? Do you know what free fall speed is? Here’s an analogy. If you had dropped a bowling ball off either tower at the moment it began to collapse, it would have hit the ground at roughly free fall speed, that is to say in less than 10 seconds, meaning there was only a bit of air resistance, no other. So the buildings came down at exactly the same speed… interesting. Why, they too must have had only the most minimal air resistance. Possible? Not possible. Thanks, Fred. On to question
    2. How did Building 7 come down late that afternoon? AFTER its collapse was announced on British live t.v.?
    Cheerio, and please do try to answer either or both of these.

  167. EuroNat says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    The explanation I have come to believe over the years is that publicly committing to inane CTs is a costly form of social signaling.

    Says the incel sh*tposter showing a photo of himself larping with a medieval sword in his flip flops next to his every sh*tpost. The richness is overwhelming.

    Back into the real world, believing everything the government and media tells you without doing your homework is the most virgin thing ever.

    Some CTs have enough grounds to invite skepticism, and some are a waste of time. Dismissing every skeptic of Official Explanations as CT tinfoil hats – including many infinitely better informed than yourself- is also up there in the top 10 most virgin behaviours.

    Remember: no one knows you are a virgin until you post your inane comments on how righteous it is to believe in all Official Explanations and/or ridiculous pics of yourself larping.

    • Replies: @Weaver
  168. Fred makes some good points. But misses a lot too.

    “the supporting elements needed to be cut. What were these? Answer: the fifty-nine huge steel uprights on each face of the building.”

    Fred is right here. To bring down the towers with conventional explosives (Like the lauded Thermite), the entire 110 stories of WTC-1 and WTC-2 would have to have been wired. An incredible task to do in secret. When every morning, hundreds of workers returned to work.

    It would be impossible to wire 47 Massive Steel Columns on 110 separate floors and do it secretively. However, I believe Planting explosives in the subterranean areas would be very easy. There is no doubt, SOMETHING in addition to CONVENTIONAL EXPLOSIVE WAS USED.

    The floors of the supposed impacts were definitely wired for Hollywood Pyrotechnics and enough thermite to cut the Airplane silhouettes. Bother twin towers had some weird art group (
    Gelatin) hanging out for a year or so on these exact floors. And they were doing weird construction or deconstruction of these floors…(pictures of them wearing hardhats, climbing, and repelling gear).

    There is overwhelming evidence that 9/11 was a Nuclear Event. Strategically placing a handful of mini-nukes and wiring them for the synchronous detonation – throughout the buildings could have EASILY been achieved. A task far less involved. Remember under the official narrative, 110 Stories standing tall = 110 stories pancaked on the ground. The rubble pile would have been 30-40 stories tall. But what did we see? Maybe 3-5 stories of rubble. Those Towers were VAPORIZED. Only one force on earth can heat massive steel I-beams and vaporize them in midair as they are falling to the ground.

    The beauty of Nukes is they obliterate ALL Evidence of conventional demolition. This however does not explain Building 7, which was 100% conventional demolition. This means all the evidence of Conventional demolition was stacked on the ground for all to see. Which means massive collusion of nefarious parties. The clean-up crew would have easily determined the cause of that building’s collapse. So whoever carried out the clean-up of Building 7 took part in 9/11. If Fire Fighters were involved in Building 7 Clean Up, then they were in on it. I believe however it was most likely roped off and a private company called in. Much like the Oklahoma City, Murrah Building demolition and disposal after the citizens of that city paid for their own investigation and their bomb expert was climbing all over that rubble pile. The US Government quickly demolished that building and carted it way.

    While the theories themselves soon ceased to be interesting, the psychology of the believers fascinated me. There are a lot of theories and, I noticed men (almost all CTs are) who believe in one almost always believe in many.

    Fred is right here too. I do not understand the psychology of fellow CTs. Many do believe in a whole slew of horseshit theories. Go no further than the great David Icke. I remember seeing his videos on YouTube about 9/11. Initially, for me, he was a great champion of TRUTH. Then I found a video of him talking about LIZARD PEOPLE. I was crushed. What in the FUCK??? I remember talking to a CT at a Goodwill store, in the book section. We starting firing conspiracy theories back and forth and I was so happy to find another like-minded person. We talked for about an hour. He knew every CT I knew. Then he braggartly started talking about FLAT EARTH. I was appalled, crushed…so very disappointed. As we walked outside, I point up at the moon….DUDE IT’S FUCKING ROUND!!!….. Goodbye.

    I think when you stand at the edge of the abyss and stare unafraid into it, you begin to see evil and shadowy machinations all around you. When one loses faith and trust in one’s own government, you see bad intentions and conspiracy in every news story. So Fred is right. CTs tend to believe in all kinds of theories most “normal” people/sheep scoff at.

    I puke out Moon Hoaxes, Lizard People, Flat Earth, Fema Camps, Coffins, 5G, COVID-19 Tracking Bots—–But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, OK City, TWA-800, USS Liberty, MK ULTRA, Mossad Assassinations, JFK, RFK, and all other Assassinations / Suicides, Operation Northwoods, 9/11, Lead-Based Paint, the Real Dangers of Cigarettes, the politicization of the FDA, CDC, and WHO. I have no doubt about the Social Engineering Machination of the Jewish Elites. I have no doubt in the complete falsehood of the Holocaust Hoax, but understand how it is needed for the survival of Israel.

    How can I believe all these CTs????? Because I’ve invested all my free time in READING, STUDYING, ANALYZING….using my own brain to filter out the state-sponsored propaganda. And I take pride in knowing that I can completely fail in life and end up living in a single-wide trailer in South Texas, but by GOD….I AM AWAKE!!! And therefore so much better (more highly evolved) than the rest of you damn grass-eating SHEEP. Perhaps this is the LURE of conspiracies. You become one of the Elite…Like NEO on the Nebuchadnezzar in the Matrix. An elite team eating gruel every day….but AWAKE!!

    I don’t get it. Give me one story, about covid or the Towers, stick to it, show it clearly to be physically possible. Failing this, I have to think we are dealing with shapes swirling in the inner fog instead of reality. Although I concede that traces of pixie dust were found in the rubble, and witnesses report a dancing light, consistent with Tinker Belle….

    OK FRED….this is just INSULTING. It is almost like you are just a fat lazy rabble-rouser. A Muck Raker having a go at the soft underbellies of the CT community. Then I remember reading that you are a MARINE. So I will just patiently pat you on your head and say…” Yeap, You know what you Know”. “Have a nice day”. I remember long ago standing in a strip mall in a USAF recruitment office, as a young 21-Year-old. I had placed 96% on my ASVAB. I was a freaking rock star…they loved me, I could choose any Specialty Code I wanted. A young guy about my same age came in, the USAF recruiters asked him what his ASVAB score was, he stated 64%. They eye-rolled and looked at each other and both said in unison….”Try Next Door” and pointed to the left. Next Door in the strip mall was the location of the Marine Recruitment office. Semper Fi Fred.

  169. SMK says: • Website
    @Rich

    Every “conspiracy” you mention is a historical event proven by factual evidence -as is the hijacking of plances by Muslims fanatics who flew two of them into the Twin Towers and murdered almost 3,ooo people- as oppsed to the lunatic conspriacy theory that the “Jews did it,” somehow, while leaving no factual evidence, and that the 19 Mullims terrorists didn’t actually exist, contrary to the evidence, and that the planes which appeared to fly into the Twin Towers were actually “holograms,” as Fred noted.

    The delunsional and insane (e.g., the 9/11 “conspiracy theorists”) believe that those who aren’t insane and delusional (e.g., Fred in this article on the lunacy of all the 9/11 Jew-hating “conspiracy theorists”) are insane and delusional.

    • Replies: @Rich
  170. Anon[312] • Disclaimer says:
    @Notsofast

    The facts this kind of pieces by him get commented on, even very negatively, points to a certain kind of readership, seeing themselves as truth-oriented, still haven’t their priorities right nor are they good at allotting their energies and time.

  171. JoeyI says:

    Why do they post articles from this dumb clown?

    • LOL: Hal Womack
  172. Cabbagehead Fred wants us to trust this media.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, but the real problem is the monopoly of the official wrong.

    https://www.thetrumpet.com/8318-what-really-happened-in-bosnia

  173. SMK says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    This Jew-hating “conspiracy theory” is, at least,, factually possible -since the evidenc that 19 Muslim fanatics, 15 Saudis and 4 Egyptians, hijacked 4-plances and flew two of them into the Twin Towers is incontrovertable- as opposed to pure fantasy.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  174. Anon[312] • Disclaimer says:
    @Redman

    It’s not a random-come-about fallacy either. This site has a piece by Unz himself about how the derogatory label “conspiracy theorist” was introduced into the current language by America’s three-letter agencies.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  175. Desperate, frustrated hurl.
    Do we really need it this time?
    I do not think so!!!
    What we need is parsing.

  176. R.C. says:

    Author obviously needs to reassess just how open he thinks his mind is.
    R.C.

  177. “If you want me to believe that the Israelis did do it, you have to show me that they could have done it. If they couldn’t have, they probably didn’t” Wrong. As Sherlock Holmes brilliantly pointed out, once you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be trie. The author’s problem is he assumes others are as lazy in their machinations as he is in his thinking.

  178. Weaver says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    The answer is the mainstream narrative you believe in is impossible, ergo the conspiracy theory that explosives were planted. What we know as fact is that your belief is impossible, ergo something else, even if unknown, happened. Respectfully.

    Write on AMLO’s view of Covid vaccines and Ivermectin, please. That would be wonderful to read about, if you happen to be idle. CELAC too.

  179. Weaver says:
    @EuroNat

    I like the sword pic. I just dislike that he promotes transhumanism. Anyway, it’s highly unlikely he’s an incel. A better slur might be that he’s not a father, if such were the case. Or, better might be if he didn’t care for his wife/children, again hypothetical. The incel obsession makes humanity sound like Bonobos. It’s a slave value.

  180. Rich says:
    @SMK

    Well, at least you admit that conspiracies exist. That’s a start. As a simple exercise, isn’t it more than a little possible that Lee Oswald was a “patsy” as he told the media when he was arrested? Isn’t it one of the oddest things in history that a small time gangster, Jack Rubinstein, was able to walk straight up to him and shoot him while he was surrounded by police, then die of terminal cancer shortly after that? That story sounds like the crazy theory. At least to me.

    • Replies: @Brewer
  181. Dutch Boy says:

    You don’t have to be a hard core CT to detect the fetid aroma around 9/11 story. A modern building that collapses controlled demolition style from a dinky fire (Bldg 7), dancing Israelis filming the whole thing, then being memory-holed, a commission for investigation that even the co-chair (Lee Hamilton) admitted was misled, lied to and set up to fail:
    LEE HAMILTON: “So there are all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail. We got started late. We had a very short time frame; indeed we had to get it extended. We did not have enough money. They were afraid we were going to hang somebody.”

  182. A conspiracy is nothing more than a (secret) plot by two or more people to carry out a (nefarious) plan (or a routine ruse).

    Conspiracies of one kind or another occur every second of every day. At the same time, false allegations about (cryptic) intentions and plans (of others) occur nearly as often. Plotting and deception are ubiquitous in human affairs, as well as in the natural world. It’s how organisms survive. They outwit one another.

    Fred is correct to say that there are far too many ultra-imaginative claims about secret plots for them all to be taken seriously–or for most to be accepted as (likely) true. Hard evidence, please. Thus many CTs are surely false. Plus, there is the ongoing problem of verifiability. Countless CTs can neither be proven nor disproven. They are unfalsifiable. This gets un nowhere. So let’s cut Fred a little slack for putting us through the grinder on this, even if he did so in rather dismissive fashion.

    As with theology, just believing that a plausible scenario happened a certain way is not proof that it did. Yet many religious ideas (myths) remain accepted as ‘Gospel truth’–even by scientists. One modern religious movement involves a theory of (catastrophic, imminent) anthropogenic ‘global warming’. This popular theory assembles pieces of data and evidence to ‘prove’ an (allegedly new and ominous) trend that’s been caused entirely by Man. Interesting. But highly debatable.

    Add to this conclusion the grand inference (amplified in MSM) involving impending climate catastrophe and a debatable theory becomes very believable and very marketable. Dubious conclusions are then used to steer international political policies. Boom!

    But it gets worse.

    Some CTs are actually etched in stone. A conspiracy theory etched in stone?
    Can you think of any?

    How about you, Fred?

    What about Hitler’s conspiracy against you -know-who?
    Disbelive it at your own risk.

    Some CTs are certainly true. Others certainly not. Follow the evidence wherever it leads.
    Of note:


  183. Dumbo says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Yawn. Whatever explanation you have “come to believe over the years” is probably stupid, and almost certainly wrong as most things you ever wrote.

    How many billions were going to die of Covid, again?

    (I thought Fred was the dumbest and most annoying writer here, at least in his bad weeks, but I had forgotten about old AK.)

  184. Dumbo says:

    “Conspiracy theory” is really a misnomer.

    It just means an alternative explanation that contradicts what the media and governments says.

    Who says the media and government are the arbiters of truth?

    Who says they don’t have an agenda they are pushing all the time, and are more into propaganda than truth?

    About any event, there can be several explanations. Some explanations are stupid, some make more sense.

    The dumbest “conspiracy theory” about 911 is that some bearded dude in a cave in Afghanistan planned it all, ordering 19 Arabs with boxcutter to hijack planes, and that just those planes made the Twin Towers fall.

    If someone came up with that story outside of the media, he would be called the craziest “conspiracy theorist” around.

    • Agree: Zarathustra
  185. Weaver says:
    @Ron Unz

    Unz Covid theory -1

    UBI > increase minimum wage proposal, which was brilliant at the time, for me anyway.

    I forget if you included this, but I think you could add that Stalin seemed to reduce Jewish power when he came in. He went against many opponents, but the fall of Jews seems most notable. Just seems correct from … 200 Years. Also, it seems like Stalin’s belief that Russians needed a homeland is what preserved nations in the Soviet Union. It seems useful for us Americans to better understand Russia and the Cold War, if possible.

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  186. Mark Hunter says: • Website
    @Gina Schrank

    After all his work Ron Unz writes one thing some people disagree with and instantly they turn on him like a rabid dog.  He’s immoral, a Mossad agent, a coward, etc., etc.  It’s sickening.

    Besides being ungrateful and stupid, if we assume RU has made a mistake regarding the covid vaccines it is no way to encourage him to think about it further.

    On the other hand I don’t think it is discouraging either. Who cares what such cyphers say? They’re like house flies buzzing around a lion.

    • Agree: Weaver, Pat Kittle
    • Replies: @Weaver
    , @eldorado
  187. @James Speaks

    The problem is not which direction the buildings collapsed but that the buildings collapsed at all. Never before has fire brought down a steel-framed skyscraper. Never before has an airplane crash brought down a steel framed skyscraper. On 9-11 miraculously three were brought down. Gravity pulls straight down but massive steel columns push straight up against gravity with many times the strength of gravity. When the only other apparent force involved is a lateral force brought by the colliding airliner, then observers are wise to point out the collapse was too vertical to be believed.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  188. @James Speaks

    James,
    Yes, I have been to the Plaza. Did you notice the storm drain at the curve? The storm drain that (underground a short distance) empties into the Guadalupe River? Did you notice (I did), that a shooter in the drain would get a perfect shot at the curve, and further notice the detritus from the back of JFK’s head moving in a trajectory consistent with the shot angle from the storm drain? Have you considered that after the assassination, the Secret Service secures all manholes on whatever route is selected for the President?

    I do not believe in conspiracies much, and agree with much of what Fred says. However, if you believe the Warren commission, the 1891 Mannlicher-Carcano was the fastest shooting, most accurate shoulder weapon of WW!!…(Snort)

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  189. bjondo says:

    2 planes, 3 towers, 7 buildings destroyed.
    AlQ had a successful day.

    Forgot, AlQ mailing anthrax.

    Don’t know Fred well, but seems to be pulling legs.

    5 dancing shlomos

    • LOL: GazaPlanet
  190. @Frederick V. Reed

    Let´s see … GABA is a neurotransmitter, Salvarsan was too good for the
    Tuskegee airpersons, and I doubt they gave you C-4 (1,3,5-trinitro-1,3,5-triazinane).
    In both the army (assault engineer) and the profession
    (mining geology) things that go boom were my daily bread – do not try to scare
    your grandmother with your bodily nakedness.
    I have not used nukuler explosives (duh) but have a reasonable idea what such
    cratering looks like.

    – As in the Beirut harbor case no clear evidence of, erm, help is visible
    in the videos (nukes I rule out in both cases); then again, it wouldn´t be expected.
    The only thing that raises one eyebrow is the symmetrical pulverization
    (i.e. the things did not topple) of the central column at the beginning of the
    collapse – for which pancaking is not implausible
    (inside the column would be the logical point to place (shaped) charges,
    but that´s not as easy as it sounds and there´s no reason for the column to go
    at the height of the impact).
    All the rest can be safely left to gravity (cf. G.K.Chesterton, “The Hammer of God”).
    The heat is part from the collapse, part from unlikely combustibles (Al, Mg, Zn, Be).

    Nothing to see here – but the circumstances are still damning 😀

  191. Most of the CTs that stick around usually have some truth behind them. The thing I would ask Fred is, would he support a real investigation of 9/11 carried out by forensic experts and law enforcement?

    That is what we Truthers are asking for.

    Let’s have real investigation and let the chips fall where they may.

    • Replies: @mark green
  192. Not every conspiracy is incorrect or work crazy people Fred, one has to be utterly stupid to buy the official story of 9/11. FBI did cover up of TWA flight800 (plenty of witnesses told FBI that they saw a missile exploding and every witness was ignored). 2020 election- You can not deny the outrageous amount of fraud that went into it even Time magazine wrote a article defending the effort all be it they gave us a clean version of it.
    Sorry man we no longer and have not lived under true democracy and government of the people by the people and for the people for some time now.

  193. Weaver says:
    @Mark Hunter

    I don’t well understand him or even quite how I’m expected to behave here, but he seems like a wonderful person. He clearly opposes war, which is praiseworthy. He also seems concerned that certain views are censored, should be heard, even if believing them to be bogus.

    So, he seems like a good person. His minimum wage proposal was incredibly valuable, would have greatly helped Americans, did help in opening minds on the right.

  194. SafeNow says:

    The purpose of this eccentric essay is to convince the would-be cancelers of this website that we are a just a bunch of unhinged wackos, and so quite harmless, or even an asset to them.

    I can help in this regard. I believe that Gabby Petito was eaten by CIA/Mossad grizzlies. She was last seen in grizzly country. Most people think that the disappearance of this unfortunate scantily-clad van-roadtrip young lady was a media distraction from the Haitian invasion, Milley, etc. that the administration merely lucked into. They do you not realize that it was actually perpetrated by the administration, using their Mossad-trained CIA grizzlies, who are members of the CIA community, grizzly division. Over the horizon, dancing grizzly-trainers watched, drone-assisted, while the CIA grizzlies did their work.

  195. @Ron Unz

    I hadn’t thought of that, though I can see your paranoia has logic in it. Still, you yourself laugh at and belittle anti-vaxers, and people who think covid’s a hoax. For all you read, how much do you step back, look at the bigger picture, and excercise common sense? Much of what you read common sense and much experience teaches me is very corrupt–e.g. all ‘respectable’ newspapers beginning with the NYT, but also such respectable journals as The Lancet, or perhaps Popular Science (I don’t know offhand if you’ve quoted these publications, but you’ve quoted others like them, for example the CDC on covid figures–what makes you think that entire organisation is n’t corrupt? I find it very exasperating to read you, as one minute you make sense and the next you don’t. It took you a very long time to come around on 911, for example. I’m very glad you did, but it really took a long time. Then you think you know something about vaccines, when it seems to me you know next to nothing. Your thought to me seems very muddled, a big mess. And Fred Reed has periodically gone on these rants against ‘conspiracy theorists’–but perhaps he doesn’t believe the CIA coined that term in the first place–for a long time. His folksy articles are basically worthless because he lacks credibility.

  196. Anonymous[307] • Disclaimer says:
    @restless94110

    I agree. Smug is the perfect term. I first noticed the smell of smug irrationality some time ago when Fred took on evolution and wrote paragraphs of smug strawman arguments that dishonestly portrayed evolutionist positions.

    I think it would be a mistake to take Fred seriously. He appears to be like some random drunk sitting on a barstool somewhere trying to make all the other drunks think he sees the big picture and sees how silly everyone else is because they don’t see the big picture the way he does ’cause he’s been around, don’t you know.

    He’s a practiced (and entertaining) rhetorical comedian, not an intellectual and certainly not a philosopher. His favorite people appear to be government gunslingers of any and all brands. As we know, when they strap on their guns each morning, their IQs jump straight up and maybe they impressed him in his early days with their habitual smug cynicism about everyone who isn’t a government gunslinger.

    Sneering at everything that doesn’t fit his snide barstool view of life is his ‘shtick’. It’s entertaining, but perhaps he should not put his ignorance so blatantly on display.

    John Howard

  197. Has Fred Reed ever heard of something called “ strategy”. Well, I hope he did, but it seems very unlikely since any strategy has a strong element of conspiracy, especially when it comes to wiping out the competition.

    Now, if Fred Reed believes that Oswald killed JFK and 9/11 was the work of UBL planning his act from Tora Bora, then I must have wasted precious time reading through his ludicrous article. Fred Reed is a gifted writer but he hardly fits the description of a journalist; he would do well to be a spokesman for some government agency.

  198. What is this guy talking about? Building #7 ( with its 59 columns) fell into its own footprint at free fall speed as a result of a couple of office fires? Does he know nothing about physics? Is Reed saying the thousands of professional architects and engineers for 9/11 truth and commercial pilots for 9/11 truth are tin hats with no knowledge of avionics or demolition – but Reed does? I can’t believe anyone with a brain would write this article. He proves no point, does not disprove the troubled evidence, yet mocks the professionals who make an incontrovertible case….so much so that Popular Mechanics had to revise their nonsensical theory of how building #7 came down with a wishy-washy statement that ” building #7 was an unexplainable event.”

    This guy belongs on CNN.

    • Agree: Joe Levantine
  199. eldorado says:
    @Mark Hunter

    His arguments in favor of the vaccines were at least intelligent and well thought out.

    • Replies: @Anon
  200. eldorado says:

    It’s easy to poke fun at people rhetorically, but not so easy to respectfully engage with them. This reads as though you have never actually examined the details of some of the theories you take pot shots at and are attempting to preach to a choir that may not exist on this site.

  201. Agent76 says:
    @James Speaks

    September 10, 2021 The Bin Ladens and the Bushes: On 9/11 George Herbert W. Bush Meets Osama’s Brother Shafiq bin Laden

    Lest we forget, one day before the 9/11 attacks [as well as on the morning of 9/11, the dad of the sitting President of the United States of America, George Herbert Walker Bush was meeting none other than Shafiq bin Laden, the brother of the alleged terror mastermind Osama bin Laden.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-bin-ladens-the-bushes-and-911-a-former-us-president-meets-osamas-brother-not-subject-to-anti-terrorism-legislation/5582436

    When it comes to 9-11,,all you have to do is look at WTC 7 and ask yourself,,what happen to it,,,the answer is obvious,,,,

    https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.metabunk.org%2Ffiles%2FWTC-7-Collaps---Previously-Unreleased-Footage-of-WTC-7.gif%3Ad7FqSc9Qd7G2kzmDgOltAQpRJko&cuid=4413253

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  202. SafeNow says:

    Ron Unz gives a link to his American Pravda series. It is massive, and many new commenters might wonder where the heck to begin. With whatever you’re most interested in, of course. But for what it’s worth, my recommendation is the essay on the Flight 800 coverup. It illustrates nearly all important aspects of how a factually preposterous, bogus official narrative can be created, and sustained, and opposition is crushed. Here is a link to this engaging and prescient essay. The flight cover-up is now 25 years old, but it serves as a preamble to so much of what we have seen since. Thank you.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-destruction-of-twa-flight-800/

    • Thanks: mark green
  203. Robjil says:
    @Anon

    the derogatory label “conspiracy theorist” was introduced into the current language by America’s three-letter agencies.

    CT was introduced in April 1967. Just in time to counter any talk about the USS Liberty, which happened on June 8 1967. It was mostly introduced though to stop the talk about the JFK assassination. Two birds hit with one stone in 1967. Yet it continues to rock and roll as the “number one hit” term to silent dissent in the land of the faux free USA.

    https://lenabloch.medium.com/it-is-important-to-remember-that-the-concept-of-conspiracy-theory-was-created-by-cia-in-1967-f19459cc9a7c

    it is important to remember that the concept of CONSPIRACY THEORY was created by… CIA in 1967.

    Indeed, as the old English proverb goes,

    “FIRST GIVE A DOG A BAD NAME, THEN HANG IT”

    In 1967, the CIA Created the Label “Conspiracy Theorists” … to Attack Anyone Who Challenges the “Official” Narrative.

    Specifically, in April 1967, the CIA wrote a dispatch which coined the term “conspiracy theories” … and recommended methods for discrediting such theories. The dispatch was marked “psych” — short for “psychological operations” or disinformation — and “CS” for the CIA’s “Clandestine Services” unit.

    Here is the paragraph of the dispatch that mentions the word CT in April 1967.

    The aim of this dispatch is to provide material countering and discrediting the claims of the conspiracy theorists, so as to inhibit the circulation of such claims in other countries. Background information is supplied in a classified section and in a number of unclassified attachments.

  204. niceland says:

    I wonder why, in his summary of “A few of the more popular” [conspiracy theories] , Fred didn’t include the conspiracy theories floating around the months before the invasion of Iraq in 2003?

    It’s been a while, but I recall few of them, for example;
    Conspiracy theorists claimed the U.S. government was lying when it said Saddam Hussein had; huge stockpiles of chemical weapons, ongoing nuclear program, medium range missile program and he was involved with the terrorists that did 911.

    Some went further and accused the U.S. government of creating deliberately misleading reports and falsifying data in order to rally support (or justify) a military invasion of Iraq!

    This was rather serious stuff, lying and falsifying data to start illegal military invasion into sovereign country, a bloody war! I wonder why Fred left this out? As conspiracy theories go this one was very popular at the time in some circles at least. And as grave and serious as they come. Prime material.

    But perhaps it’s convenient to leave this out, because it turned out these accusations were, in short: true. Including them would have spoiled the list of popular conspiracy theories, or rather it’s usefulness in what seems to be Fred’s overall argument.

    But it’s been a while and I guess easy to forget, especially if one is occupied doing other things, like perhaps being fascinated with the psychology of the believers of conspiracy theories.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
    , @showmethereal
  205. So, who shorted the airline stocks just before the attack? Arabs, I guess.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  206. Herald says:
    @anon

    I rather like most of Fred’s stuff, it’s usually funny, insightful, sensible and contentious. This one though, was more than a little disturbing. Could Fred actually have written this? It’s as if someone were holding a gun to his head and told him to write a confession. It contains nothing that usually makes Fred a worthwhile read and it absolutely stinks of coercion, but from who?

  207. @Jonathan Revusky

    As I pointed out already, the 911 Commission Report rebutted many claims which the Bush administration had tried to promote. Now that doesn’t mean that the 911 Commission Report is really the whole truth. But it sounds overstrained to call the “official story.” It would be a little like treating Nikita Khrushchev’s ‘Secret Speech’ of 1956 as the official Soviet story on the Moscow Trials of the 1930s.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  208. @Si1ver1ock

    Let’s have real investigation [of 911] and let the chips fall where they may.

    A recent investigation out of the Univ. of Alaska concluded a multi-year investigation of the structural failures that occurred on 911. The study was thorough and scientific. It’s findings disputed key conclusions in the original, official (and politicized) 911 report.

    This groundbreaking (and dissenting) inquiry was universally ignored by the MSM.

    Was there any mention of it anywhere during the recent 20-year ‘anniversary’ of 911?

    If there was any, I missed it.

    Conspiracy of silence?

    https://www.ae911truth.org/wtc7

  209. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wokechoke

    “The Jews never like the Kennedy clan”

    They didn’t like Joe Kennedy, but they were fine with John. I guess this is just another form of the horseshoe theory, so-called progressives and antisemites both projecting their beliefs onto the guy because he was handsome and dead so couldn’t contradict them.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  210. @elysianfield

    I may have mentioned that Dealy Plaza is like a shooting gallery. If not, I mention it now. I think JFK could have been hit three times from the sixth floor. I also think there could easily be more than one shooter as you explained. What concerns me is the the knoll is not a knoll as the Media haven been parroting for decades, Dealy Plaza is not some impossibly great expanse as it is depicted over and over, and yes, there are many ways additional shooters could have been involved.

    Both the official version and most conspiracy explanations are full of misstatements.

  211. @therevolutionwas

    The steel yielded, but you’re too ignorant to know that that is a sufficient explanation. .

    • Replies: @InnerCynic
  212. @Chris in Cackalacky

    You’re too stupid to understand column buckling.

    • Replies: @Chris in Cackalacky
  213. I too enjoyed many of Fred’s comments. He had a good sense of humor. But this article threw me for a loop. Where to begin? I think the Book of Proverbs says it best.

    “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him” Proverbs (26:4).

  214. AaronB says:

    It has long been noted that conspiracy theories exist in order to give people a feeling of significance and importance, and to make history look like it has a pattern. They are fundamentally religious in nature.

    Think about it – you’re a random White loser with low self esteem. Ok. (Or, like Ron Unz, you’re a failed member of the elite – you didn’t succeed among your peers and they don’t respect you) Ok. But imagine if you – little old you – are at the absolute center of a millenia long plot by the smartest and most powerful people in the world, who you decide are the Jews, or the Anglos and Jews, or the Freemasons!

    Suddenly, you matter, you’re hugely important. First you build up the Jews in your mind – superhumanly intelligent (but also, completely idiotic and about to be defeated by little old you, smart enough to see through their plans).

    Then these Masters of the Universe – what have they been up to the past several thousand years? Why, only thinking about you and people like you, planning your enslavement or defeat or whatever!

    You are quite literally at the center of the plans of these Gods. You’re also so smart you’ve seen through their plans.

    You’ve gone from being a nobody to being pretty important and amazing in an instant!

    Conspiracy theories fulfill our need for meaning in history and to feel we matter, and a society where this stuff proliferates is a society that has failed to fulfill the spiritual needs of it’s people.

    The sad thing is that a healthy doctrine like Buddhism or Taoism will tell you that each human already posseses infinite worth, but our society tells you you’re a “nobody” unless you become superior somehow – so we produce millions of broken people desperate to feel important who turn to conspiracy theories and the like.

    It’s tragic and unnecessary.

    The whole unhealthy swamp that is the Unz Review is an indictment of the spiritual emptiness of our culture and the broken people we produce.

  215. @m.a.kaiser

    (((Deutsche Bank))) would not cover for Arabs.

  216. gary.flo says:

    The pools of molten steel that did remain under the 911 rubble for months must have migrated to Fred’s brain. What a f—-in moron.

  217. kemerd says:
    @Ron Unz

    The official narrative about 9/11 is shown to be implausible, which indicates that there is at least a cover up of what actually happened.

    However, I think Fred has a point: there is not a consistent explanation that accounts for all known facts for the collapse of WTC towers, or at least I have not come across one. I believe there must be at least one plausible explanation of how this could be done presume existence of a conspiracy.

  218. Sean says:
    @James Speaks

    Yes, and faking the signs of that would have been really very difficult to do reliably (unlike demolishing a tall building with explosive faking the sign of fire melting the supports would have been a shot in the dark). And would have to be got right first time on a building of unprecedented scale in full view of many cameras. One of the WTC towers was visibly sagging at one side before it collapsed, and the anchorman in the newsroom of a major network remarked on that.

    Anyway a year ir so before 9/11 Osama bin Laden was interviewed and specifically complained about the US army that was then stationed in Saudi Arabia (to protect the Saud family dictatorships from Saddam). When asked about terrorist attacks on the US; he smirked said that in the future American would see in their media his operations “God willing”.

    • Thanks: James Speaks
    • Replies: @James Speaks
  219. @Patrick McNally

    As I pointed out already, the 911 Commission Report rebutted many claims which the Bush administration had tried to promote.

    What claims?

    Now that doesn’t mean that the 911 Commission Report is really the whole truth.

    You don’t say….

    • LOL: mark green
    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  220. Fred Reed is a hard-boiled realist, disinclined to accept any sort of CT due to street smarts and clear thinking.

    I suggest he read Robert Stinnett’s “Day of Deceit” that proves the FDR cabal knew about and had sought the attack by Japan on Pearl Harbor as means to entry into WWII.

    Stinnett researched Pearl Harbor for 12 or 15 years using the freedom of information act to get usually redacted documents (‘national security’ 75 years after the event). Despite redactions he was finally able to piece together the pieces of this puzzle, as naval intelligence gate keepers let slip facts displayed in documents they sent him that had been redacted by other gate keepers in other documents.

    Mr. Reed believes the case that FDR wanted the attack and tried to provoke it is nonsense. But he ought to read this heavily footnoted and documented book. Then as a realist, Mr. Reed can decide whether or not the facts Stinnett proves are true; and whether or not Mr. Reed’s feelings about the matter contradict logic and evidence.

    If his feelings do contradict facts and logic, that’s worth knowing. Bias can ruin thinking.

    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
  221. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    They are fundamentally religious in nature.

    Do you, of all people, consider this an attack on them?

    It has long been noted that the man who first resorts to weaponized psychoanalysis as a method of argument is not unlikely to be projecting.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  222. Robjil says:

    Suddenly, you matter, you’re hugely important. First you build up the Jews in your mind

    Everyone wishes what you said was true. It is not so, the evidence is overwhelming that something is wrong with western culture in 2021. The biggest problem in the west is with our MSM. It needs to some air to breathe. Jewish Supremacists voices are only allowed to be heard in western MSM.

    It is destroying humanity’s critical thinking skills. Humans developed civilization through critical thinking. If this continues the west will go down fast. Western MSM has to allow all voices to be heard again. Ron Unz is doing a great job by allowing people to express, explore and develop critical thinking skills. The west sorely needs it.

    Here is a blog that describes the massive havoc in the west in the last few years caused by the absolute control of MSM in the west by Jewish Supremacists. “You can’t speak” is what Jewish Supremacist MSM say to all the people who question or notice its control.

    https://andreacrisiscenter.blogspot.com/2018/03/a-case-for-jewish-controlled-msm-as.html

    If Jewish journalists mainly serve their tribal interests, the gentile ones have been hoodwinked by the Ideology and ‘Idology’ of PC to believe that the real dark power is in the hands of some hillbillies holding Confederate flags than by Zionist-Globalists who control Wall Street, Hollywood, Real Estate, Deep State, Ivy Leagues, Las Vegas, Silicon Valley, NSA, and Law Firms to bend the will of all Americans toward serving EOJ or the Empire of Judea.

    So, while these journalists overlook the fact that Jewish Power utterly destroyed Libya, supplied arms to Alqaeda elements in Syria, and even recruited Neo-Nazi fighters to topple the regime in Ukraine, they throw hissy fits because some white people want to preserve the monuments and memory of men like General Lee. That is what PC indoctrination does to people.

    Their cartoonish caricature of history, plus the fact that they were raised on moronic Rap music with childish attitudes, sees everything in Manichean terms of Good and Evil. Since Jews are GOOD, even the worst things they do can’t be that bad. Since blacks are GOOD, they can burn down entire cities and beat up random people, and it’s no big deal. But if white people want to defend a monument to General Robert E. Lee and give speeches exposing the supremacist power of Jews? Since whites are deemed BAD, even sane and courageous things they do are deemed evil and must be shut down.

  223. @SMK

    ‘This Jew-hating “conspiracy theory” is, at least,, factually possible…’

    Why is it ‘Jew hating’? In my post, I made a decidedly dispassionate statement of those facts that are inarguably true — and acknowledged to be true. Even this becomes ‘Jew hate’? If I point out that infants are rarely toilet trained before eighteen months of age, have I become a ‘baby hater’?

    That is literally your standard.

  224. @Agent76

    I have no doubt there were nefarious people behind it all. Building 7 is difficult to understand but like 1 and 2, uncontrolled fires caused steel to yield then buckle. The process was different than the two towers but it is a sufficient e plantation.

    Now before you jabber on, read up on steel, stress / strain versus temp, and frame analysis. Or don’t, but if you don’t, kindly shut the fuck up.

    • Replies: @Johnny Johnny
  225. @Sean

    Nothing melted. It yielded.

    • Replies: @Sean
  226. Seem to me that Fred is just posting crazy shit just to see how many replies he can get.

    Hate to break it to ya Fred but 19 hijackers worked together to highjack 4 planes. That is what is called a conspiracy.

    So 9/11 was the very definition of a conspiracy and if you think those 19 dudes were the only ones involved well then so be it.

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  227. @Dumbo

    I’m starting to think he gets paid by the number of comments.

  228. @Anonymous

    Well, I coulda just hit Agree, but your verbal gymnastics requires at least a short response.

    I think you’ve caught something about Fred that illuminates the discussion.

    Something is truly wrong with the man, but he won’t stop. And no one knows why he won’t just stop and pay attention to the world swirling around him.

    Wben I first started reading Fred, in 2011, I saw him as this hardy American who had made a life in Mexico and who had these alternate viewpoints on things.

    That conclusion soon became bankrupt. Reed was talking bullshit. Mixed in with the bullshit was the occasional column on the IMC or on the military readiness of China–or even the beauty of Mexico.

    Fred, unfortunately, decided to add to those columns other writings that were totally stupid and unhinged. In other words, Fred Reed took a shit on his brand.

    And that’s where it stands. Fred needs an editor. Someone to tell him: Hey Freddy, we ain’t going to publish this.. It’s a piece of shit. Try again, Freddy boy. Or, better yet? Retire to your enclave in Guadalajara and drink tequila.

    Too bad no one ever became Fred’s editor. Ugh.

    We can only hope this idiot stops writing his nonsense.

  229. @Notsofast

    For these snacks, pre-comment, Fred had Psylocibin AKA. Magic Mushrooms. He’s had good posts here and there, but this is by far the worst. Oh, and his comment on his Marine training, pre-Vietnam, he said he attended AIT (advanced infantry training). Well, Welly Well Well Well, During Vietnam it was called ITR (Infantry Training Regiment). This Meant 13 weeks of boot camp, to be immediately followed by 8 weeks at ITR. I know, because I arrived in boot camp in July 1964, then directly to ITR, then to 2/6, the Southeast Nausea, then 1/4, 2/4, then Guard duty in D.C., which was Primo. AIT did not come into existence until much later. I don’t doubt that he might have been in Vietnam, but this proves his remembrances of such have dissipated. Este pinche borachon no recuerdas nada. This post sucks beyond everything I’ve ever read on UNZ.

  230. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    I’m not attacking believers in conspiracy theories. On the contrary.

    I’m sympathetic to them. I’m not dismissing them with contempt – they have a very real spiritual need, an inner ache, that our society is not giving them means to deal with.

    We live in a spiritually sick and dysfunctional society – it is not at all surprising that people will turn to whatever is at hand to feel their lives have significance and history has meaning.

    I just believe there are healthier ways to do it, and conspiracy theory stuff is unhealthy – but then, much standard religious fare is unhealthy too.

    • LOL: nokangaroos
    • Troll: JimDandy
  231. @Jonathan Revusky

    The Bush administration spent a whole year trying to insinuate that Saddam Hussein was the mastermind behind 911. Laurie Mylroie acted as the academic scholarly representative of this viewpoint. To the extent that one believes at all that 911 was done as a “false flag” then it was most immediately used to blame Iraq. But the 911 Commission Report debunked all of this and made it clear that any Arab role in 911 was Saudi and Kuwaiti, but not Iraqi.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  232. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    I just believe there are healthier ways to do it, and conspiracy theory stuff is unhealthy – but then, much standard religious fare is unhealthy too.

    If some conspiracy in question exists and the official narrative is in fact false, as alleged, would that make it more or less healthy? Or neither?

    (And it is certain that some official stories must be false; for instance, either the Russian government or the German government was conspiring to lie in the Navalny affair.)

  233. Rabb says:

    Sorry Fred, the NYT’s still won’t hire you. Your record of staying on The Script is tainted by your having once thought for yourself.

    • Agree: Jett Rucker
  234. @interesting

    “… just to see how many replies he can get”

    Perhaps. But, more likely, just to make certain half-truths and people writing them
    to look better.

  235. Remind anyone mocking the “9-11 conspiracy theory” that the “Official” version of 9-11 is also a conspiracy theory — blaming primarily Muslims, not Jews, for the conspiring.

    Fred Reed unwittingly mocks himself.

    • Agree: Jett Rucker
  236. @follyofwar

    Mightn’t you have misspelled “intelligent”? Grouping conspiracies for which there is considerable evidence of their actuality with aluminum foil hat absurdities in order “to poison the well”‽ Isn’t the modus operandi of intelligence agencies worldwide? Wouldn’t this make Reed just another sample of a stoogy, toady tool of the predatory capitalist oligarchy? Sort of a stool sample?
    Asking for a friend.

    • Replies: @Grasshopper Kaplan
  237. Poor Fred. A sane voice among the generally Fox-addled UR contributors, he is as such a pariah. Here’s hoping he keeps up the truth injections for awhile longer.

    • Agree: James Speaks
  238. @AaronB

    ‘…Think about it – you’re a random White loser with low self esteem…’

    Speak for yourself.

  239. As another 4000 unvetted south americans and haitians skip across the border

    “The Great Replacement? White genocide? They’re myths, goyim. Go back to your sportsball game. Hold up your vaxport to the scanner so your power stays on.”

    • Agree: Just another serf
  240. @AaronB

    ‘… are at the absolute center of a millenia long plot by the smartest and most powerful people in the world, who you decide are the Jews, or the Anglos and Jews, or the Freemasons!

    ‘Suddenly, you matter, you’re hugely important. First you build up the Jews in your mind – superhumanly intelligent (but also, completely idiotic and about to be defeated by little old you, smart enough to see through their plans)….’

    The difficulty with this — of course, as you know perfectly well — is that some degree of Jewish complicity with the 9/11 attacks is one of the few irrefutably documented facts in all this.

    You’re demonstrating exactly what the problem is with Fred’s wholesale denunciation of all conspiracy theories. It permits throwing out the baby with the bathwater — adding in the perfectly well-documented evidence of Israeli involvement in 9/11 and dismissing it along with thermite, and Building 7 and no hijackings at all, and all the rest of it.

    …and you rush to take advantage. Go figure.

    Maybe you are professional Hasbara. I always figured Israel could do better, but maybe I’m wrong. It’s a pleasant thought, anyway.

  241. *sigh* for the dunderheads unable to keep up with the rest of the class, i suggest you read Ray McGinnis’s Unanswered Questions… NO holograms, NO energy beams, NO bullshit… 100% “official”, verified, mainstream facts, evidence, and testimony which does not really make any conclusions on its own, because the evidence screams it…
    then try manuel garcia at counterpunch…
    many look, few see…

  242. Jett Rucker says: • Website

    I think Fred is, or wishes to become, a sayan. Some sayanim have become rich, even powerful. Fred’s chances, here, would seem slim, though he is eloquent and even, in spurts, credible.
    I drift each article farther and farther away from Fred’s byline …
    I will have alternatives, and they also will probably be here.

  243. JimDandy says:
    @Gordon K. Shumway

    Did this guy used to do good work or something? If so, it must have been awhile ago. This is godawful, sub-Dave Barry-level nonsense.

  244. These various individuals, Reed, Derbyshire, Z-man, Sailer, that I will read or listen to from time to time, who are fully on-board with the absurd 9/11 story, display a nauseating inability to recognize the reality of the world they are living in.

    They need not endorse any specific theory of the alternative facts. But to accept the standard story twenty years later, there’s no excuse for this.

    Consider simply the “hi-jacker’s” passport fluttering down to the street. Or the Hezarkhani video where the airplane dissolves into the South Tower.

    Reed is an old fool unable to process information, or an old fool on someone’s payroll.

    If you pay attention to the details of these events; 9/11, Covid or any number of others, and fail to question them, then you are a moron.

    • Agree: ariadna
  245. Fred ought to read Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert Stinnett. The deceit was Roosevelt’s. Stinnett’s book is very well sourced. And by the way, Stinnett was a fan of Roosevelt.

  246. @James Speaks

    And you’re too stupid to live as a free man. Enjoy your slavery.

    • Troll: James Speaks
  247. @AaronB

    …conspiracy theory stuff is unhealthy – but then, much standard religious fare is unhealthy too.

    You must be particularly disappointed in the (((“conspiracy theory stuff”))) maintaining that Germans conspired to mass murder Jews — sacrosanct (((“standard religious fare”))) most (((“unhealthy”))).

  248. @Frederick V. Reed

    Why does nobody answer the question of how it was done?

    Not an answer, but another question: could it be that the towers were designed in such a way that, if one started to fall over sideways, forces would be triggered which would make it collapse into its own footprint instead? I don’t know if it’s possible to design a building that way–perhaps a civil engineer or architect could weigh in–but if it is possible, I’d expect a New York skyscraper to be so built. The last thing you want is for it to topple into other buildings like a domino.

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  249. @Shafar Nullifidian

    Funny I read another article I guess these are as opposed to say… opinion pieces?

    Whatever u title them there is another one on this site by an author with the same name ….

    He claims that the military will not solve our commerce problems

    Seems reasonable enough and even intelligent…

    But I have to wonder how about his insistance to be opposed to finding the key to ending these games the false flags engender

    By exclaiming there are no false flags we have to wonder what can then support the military?

    If the author is the same he has no issue with the greatest trait of this nation

    Hypocrisy

  250. dimples says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    This recent paper seems reasonably specific:

    Investigating the Mechanics of Destruction at the Twin Towers on 9/11:
    The Case for Propelled Demolition
    By Wayne H. Coste, PE

    http://www.scientistsfor911truth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/WTC_Propelled_Demolition_Paper.pdf

  251. @Rex Little

    The last thing you want is for it to topple into other buildings like a domino.

    The next time (((they))) “pull it”* (((they))) will probably not “pull it” straight down.

    *9 11 – WTC7 – Larry Silverstein says ‘PULL IT’:
    — (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZlmHvd_RZU)

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  252. Wokechoke says:
    @Anonymous

    JFK was strenuously telling the Israeli President and Prime Minister to stop developing nuclear bombs a couple of months before the assassination. This is not horseshoe theory. The tone of the letters indicated that Kennedy was moving toward sanctions on Israel. Israel will gun down politicians who threaten their state security.

  253. I needed only write the last sentence. Other readers said it all for me.

    Such an arrogant, ignorant piece of shit. Can we please get rid of this guy.  I can’t be the only one wondering why Unz still publishes this guy’s low effort crapola articles.

    This is about moral character and about integrity where Fred Reed is severely lacking. He is a bully and coward . . .

    Agree, that Fred has lost it, assuming he once was playing with a full deck. Now we can see him for the fool he is.

    Why would UR publish this ignorant drivel? Why would he put it on top of all other posts? Moronic drivel from Fred. Literally worthless. This is possibly the worst article I have ever read on unz. 

    ”These are non-sense ramblings of a deranged or drunk person.”

    Both. Mentally-deflowered Reed seems to write most of his drivel while stoned. God bless tequila.

  254. Wokechoke says:
    @AaronB

    911 happened because the US is Israel’s bitch. There’s no arguing this one.

  255. @AaronB

    Think about it – you’re a random White loser with low self esteem. Ok. (Or, like Ron Unz, you’re a failed member of the elite – you didn’t succeed among your peers and they don’t respect you) Ok. But imagine if you – little old you – are at the absolute center of a millenia long plot by the smartest and most powerful people in the world, who you decide are the Jews, or the Anglos and Jews, or the Freemasons!

    “A random White Loser”????

    Your comment offends me deeply. Some Conspiracy theorists are honor-bound to expose the truth. They are driven to stop this madness, to expose the fucking sociopaths orchestrating all this horseshit propaganda and the never-ending wars.

    Could it be that a father who has spent 20 Years in the USAF working on heavy aircraft, witnesses 9/11 and immediately knows it is BULLSHIT.

    Could it be that same father (that low self-esteem white loser) sees the innocent face of his own 20-year-old son in all the horribly disfigured veterans of these middle east wars. Wars based on a complete False Flag LIE.

    The waste of human life is heart-wrenching. The teenage kids sitting at home playing Army recruitment games like “Medal of Honor” “Ghost Recon”, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare”..with underdeveloped brains, too much testosterone, and who were fed state sponsored PROPAGANDA, thought it was their patriotic duty to “Defend America” in the “War on Terror”.

    Yeah…”Lets Roll”..”That Todd Beamer guy said that right….yeah “Lets Roll”. They enlist right out of high school, make their way to the middle east and they get killed or horribly mutilated -wheelchair bound for life. And they are only 22 years old. Blown to smithereens by a roadside bomb, never even saw the enemy’s face. Where are the children of the elite??? Where is the Israeli IDF…did they even fight over the last 20 years? Why are they not in a wheelchair?

    Not to worry these horribly mutilated or dead kids bring honor home; Their parents get a GOLD STAR. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SACRIFICE. Let me check my watch while your kids wood chipped remains are offloaded on a tarmac.

    Perhaps that “Random White Loser” is so heartbroken by what he sees, he has a moral duty to scream from the mountain top….DO NOT TRUST YOUR GOVERNMENT!!!! DO NOT LET YOUR KIDS ENLIST IN THE MILITARY.

    It is the role and solemn DUTY of the Conspiracy Theorist to awaken as many Americans as possible. If that white loser develops some self-esteem along the way by carrying such a heavy torch, then I suppose it is a win-win for everyone.

    This is the best film I have ever seen that explains the state of the world. America is not a democracy, war is profit and it is our biggest export. America was defeated long ago.

    • Thanks: Robjil
    • Replies: @AaronB
  256. Sean says:
    @James Speaks

    Thanks. Yes, yielded. There was some damage from the little matter of the jetliner impact too. The 9/11 terrorist operation planner was an engineer I would note. It was obvious there were intentions of using the plane impact to structurally compromise the buildings. The fire was not in an otherwise undamaged building.

    [MORE]

    https://news.stanford.edu/pr/01/wtcpostmortem125.html
    Stanford University News Service NEWS RELEASE
    12/3/01

    Mark Shwartz, News Service

    Structural engineer describes what went wrong inside the World Trade Center on Sept. 11
    Vulnerabilities in the design of New York’s World Trade Center (WTC) are likely to have contributed to the collapse of its two main towers and adjacent buildings, according to Ronald O. Hamburger, a structural engineer currently investigating the Sept. 11 disaster.

    Using photographs of the WTC taken before, during and after the Sept. 11 assaults, Hamburger presented a brief chronology of events. He noted that the first jetliner banked into the north tower at a 45-degree angle, damaging floors 92 to 95. About 40 minutes later, the second jet crashed into the south tower, hitting floors 78 to 84. “I believe that the hijackers flew the aircraft into the lowest part of the buildings they had access to,” Hamburger commented. “If there had been no nearby structures, they would have hit the towers lower.” One member of the audience asked Hamburger if he believed that the pilots intentionally banked the planes at an angle to take out as many floors as possible. “Yes,” he replied.

    According to Hamburger’s preliminary analysis, the impact of the jetliners shattered and fractured two-thirds of the support columns on one face of each tower, causing the partial collapse of several floors. “The damaged columns held up the weight of the building, so logic would dictate that the building would fall,” said Hamburger, “but that didn’t happen. Because of its great structural redundancy, the load was distributed to other parts of the building. We have reason to believe that, without the fire, the buildings could have stood indefinitely and been repaired. But we did have a fire.” […] “The impact probably caused a failure of the fireproofing in the affected areas,” he said. “We think that the fuel ignited several floors in the building,” he added, which had a devastating effect on the steel support beams. “Steel is born of fire,” Hamburger explained. “As it’s reheated, it expands and loses its rigidity. Above 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, it loses a significant amount of its strength.”. He said the extreme heat from the fires might have caused the steel floors to expand and bow, which may have caused the support columns to bend inward and buckle. Heat also may have caused the steel flooring to separate from the columns, or the columns themselves may have heated up and buckled outward. Hamburger also cited several features that made the buildings vulnerable to the intense fires that ultimately caused their collapse. […] Hamburger noted that each tower was constructed using a novel tube frame system designed to resist winds of up to 80 miles per hour. But the connections of the tube frame were weak, causing them to break apart and become three-pronged missiles that crashed into the street and into nearby buildings.

    Hamburger also discussed the collapse of WTC Building 7, which housed the offices of Con Edison, the FBI and the CIA.

    The plane impact on one face of the building would explain the structure (after the weakening of the fire) sagging later to one side as an anchorman can be heard remarking on during the live coverage before the collapse. Twenty years later some people cannot accept what experts knew back then.

    • Replies: @art guerrilla
  257. Brewer says:
    @Rich

    Jack Ruby’s rationale “saving Mrs. Kennedy the discomfiture of coming back to trial” was and is utterly unbelievable given his history as an amoral petty gangster and pimp.
    What could have impelled him to enter the basement with a loaded pistol and how did he manage it? How did a known petty gangster, packing, get within feet of Oswald?
    Why did he do it knowing full well it was to be undoubtedly the end of everything for him?
    I cannot find reference to it now but I have read that prior to his death he intimated that he could blow the lid off the whole story. At that time, many years ago when I took an interest in the assassination, I also saw evidence that Ruby owed Meyer Lansky big time. At that time I began to think ardent Zionist Lansky might well have had a finger in the pie.
    That this angle has never, to my knowledge, been properly investigated, is intriguing.

    • Agree: Rich
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  258. @Doy

    I see Fred subscribes to the, “Osama did it from a cave because he hates freedom” narrative.

    He does not subscribe to — or stand for — anything. Reed fully admits he is a mercenary.

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  259. Levtraro says:
    @niceland

    Instead of -or in addition to- calling attention to conspiracy theories by the unfaithful that have turned true, I think it is useful to call attention to conspiracy theories concocted by the govt and its lackeys (the faithful).

    For instance, the govt concocted the conspiracy theory that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. This conspiracy theory created by the govt was vociferously promoted at the time. One top mediocrity was claiming that Saddam Hussein could attack England in 45 min with his chemical weapons of mass destruction and another top and colored mediocrity went to the UN with a vial with yellow powder to lie to the world about his conspiracy theory that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

    The official story of 911 is one of the largest and least believable conspiracy theories defended by the faithful. Another recent conspiracy theory by the govt was Russiagate.

    Essentially, I think that the habit of govt + lackeys to bring down critical thinkers with conspiracy theory charges must be dealt with at least partly by using the same term for the many crazy proposals that the govt itself and its lackeys are constantly putting forward to justify their boldest moves.

    • Agree: niceland
  260. @Mark Humphrey

    “ Then as a realist, Mr. Reed can decide whether or not the facts Stinnett proves are true;”

    There is a big difference between a realist and someone living in his own bubble. I think Fred Reed could do a good job writing fiction as he has an entertaining but shallow style. For people to qualify as real conspiracy theorists as opposed to pseudo conspiracy theorists, their work ought to be based on a lot of hard work and discipline the way Eustace Mullins spent most his time researching at the library of Congress sometimes sleeping inside the library and David Icke who in his more than 800 pages of the 9/11 tragedy did not leave any stone unturned. I very much doubt that Mr. Reed has what it takes to earn his ticket into the genuine world of conspiracy theory, so he will throw mud at people who are keen about thinking for themselves. If my memory is correct, it was Mr. Reed who once wrote about Globocap; well he might be exposing himself to the same ridicule that he is aiming at others.

    • Replies: @Mark Humphrey
  261. Care to take on Route 91 Harvest and Stephen Paddock, “lone gunman”, killing mostly white patriots for no reason? Motive for anything needs careful consideration.

    Another thing to consider is the ritualistic nature in many of these MASSacres. 9/11 and 9-1-1 are not mere COINcidence. And, 9+1+1 = 11 which represents the towers, but we all know jews aren’t into numbers, so look away.

    Isn’t it odd that Derek Chauvin just happened to have THAT last name to be used in clarifying that he’s a male chauvinist pig. Pure Cohencidence.

    It’s all over the boob tube if you can see. Masking is a ritual. Prove to me it’s not.

  262. Anon[159] • Disclaimer says:

    What an ass-wipe you are Reed.

    • Replies: @Maddaugh
  263. remo says:

    On this 20th commemoration of the 911 demolitions; we ought thank Fred for reminding us again of the ‘Failure of Imagination’ of the intellectual elite to understand the twilight zone into which or through which or by which, these PSYOPS have forced us.

    Brings to mind John Pilgers quote : “In the 1970s, I met Leni Reifenstahl, close friend of Adolf Hitler, whose films helped cast the Nazi spell over Germany. She told me that the message in her films, the propaganda, was dependent not on “orders from above” but on what she called the “submissive void” of the public.
    “Did this submissive void include the liberal, educated bourgeoisie?” I asked her.
    “Of course,” she said, “especially the intelligentsia…. When people no longer ask serious questions, they are submissive and malleable. Anything can happen.”

    • Thanks: dimples
  264. @Sean

    you are a tool and a fool… unless and until you do some actual research other than propaganda reinforcing the Approved Narrative, you don’t know doo doo about poo poo…
    start with Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth, simple stuff, but it may be beyond you, given your status as a hardcore propaganda victim…
    try Ray McGinnis’ Unanswered Questions, too… 100% fact-based, NO DOUBT what went down, unless you are a tool and a fool…

    • Replies: @Sean
  265. EuroNat says:
    @AaronB

    You are trying to dismiss as religious nutters people who does know for certain Israeli foreknowledge and/or possible involvement in the 911 attack because several scumbags that happened to be Israelis – your countrymen- were arrested that day celebrating and filming the ongoing event. Their vans tested positive for explosives, they were seen prior to the attacks in the area. Some of them were confirmed Mossad operatives according to the FBI.

    Your arguments are sophistry of the highest order, and insults the intelligence of most readers. Why are you even trying? it must be your autism… or maybe you are getting paid to weasel… of course not only with money, it could be your spiritual needs getting satisfied weaseling…

    Now, cut the sophistry and stop broadly speaking about CTs, and focus on the very specific above facts and try again to convince me, this prototypical person with “spiritual needs” you talk about, that all this is not what it seems, not unlike a wife telling her husband “this is not what it seems you are just paranoid” when caught cheating red handed.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  266. @Ron Unz

    Even a child need only open his eyes to see that the Emperor is naked. No matter how many tortured hours that Emperor has spent desperately convincing himself that he is not.

  267. @Weaver

    Floyd
    I say Floyd
    A Thousand Times…

    Pink Floyd

  268. Wokechoke says:
    @Brewer

    Rubinstein was obviously taking orders from Israeli handlers. There is a fascinating angle on Oswald’s journey to communism. He stated that he felt the Rosenbergs had been victims of antisemitism. He described that as his wake up call. He expressed dislike of Stalin. So we can assume he tended toward being protrotsky. It’s pretty clear Oswald was a communist, but a philosemitic one. Additionally the Castro regime was the only pro Israeli South American government from 1959-64. Golda Meyer famously celebrated and congratulated Fidel when he drove out Batista a dictator who had opposed Israel’s founding. A great deal of Castros funding came from Israeli sources up until he became cosey with the Soviets. Ricardo Wolf a jew from Hamburg who’d resettled in Havana then relocated to Israel was the conduit for Castros cash and treasure. The prestigious Wolf prize gives out \$100,000 a pop to artists to this day. Its quite easy to see that Oswald was a phiosemitic leftwinger who wanted to get rid of a president from a family associated with pro Hitler views. His pro Castro politics part and parcel of seeing Cuba as an Israeli ally. Its not far fetched. We know that Oswald set up a branch of Fair Play to Cuba Committee for example.

    • Replies: @Brewer
  269. Sean says:
    @art guerrilla

    you are a tool and a fool… unless and until you do some actual research other than propaganda reinforcing the Approved Narrative, you don’t know doo doo about poo poo…

    Think about what you are saying; 9/11 was a false flag with the entire resources of a country like Israel behind it yet with the survival on that country at stake if they were found out, they did it so stupidly that it could be seen through by ordinary people listening to architects and engineers?

    try Ray McGinnis’ Unanswered Questions, too… 100% fact-based, NO DOUBT what went down, unless you are a tool and a fool…

    Lots of people have wrote 9/11 Truther books. A copy of David Ray Griffith’s Debunking 9/11 Debunking is right beside me. Again, Israel (or whoever) would have swiftly ceased to exist if caught staging 9/1, but did it so stupidly that all sorts of people realized it was not what it seemed?

    One can say that a false flag 9/11 and WTC controlled demolition is not against the laws of physics; sure, but if that was what happened it certainly it was done very cleverly indeed because anything but total success in avoiding suspicion would be counterproductive. The idea that it was done in a such silly way that anyone who looks at the evidence honestly must be convinced the “Approved Narrative” is false is clearly wrong. Maybe there was false flag by Israel or whoever, but the indication would (forgive the puns) be smoke without fire, and nothing concrete such as the way the towers fell.

    • Thanks: James Speaks
    • Replies: @Brewer
  270. Maddaugh says:

    Conspiracies are all a load of raccoon poo and Fred is quite right we have never had any in the history of mankind. Why there is even a word for such behaviour and why it is even in the dictionary is beyond me.

    Wait a second, isn’t RICO a legal instrument designed to snag people who “conspire to commit a crime”., people who would normally slip through the net. Lets say a gang decides to rob a jewellery store on the birthday of one of its members who is presently a guest in a Federal Hotel. They phone the guy in jail and merely say “Happy Birthday” and then proceed to rip off the jewels.

    Even though the fellow in jail did not know of their intent, the birthday phone call is construed as part of a conspiracy. His ass is on the line ! We can therefore safely conclude that only criminals engage in conspiracies and not governments. (See Note 1 below). Hence the RICO legislation right here in conspiracy free USA.

    I dont’t know what is the matter with Fred. I have repeatedly warned him that smoking dried chili peppers rolled in cactus leaves and quaffing tiswin in that blazing sun is not good for the brain. He wont listen after all he is a Marine hero, a biker, a Washington Cop, an astronaut, a cowboy and all that. It seems to me when people claim to have lived so much this delusion leads to a certain derangement. We can see this is the bunk Fred now considers sensible articles.

    Note 1 : Many Government officials are also criminals.

    • Replies: @Sean
  271. Maddaugh says:
    @Anon

    What an ass-wipe you are Reed.

    Please stop praising Fred !

  272. TraLaLa says:

    I would reason in reverse. If a result has taken place, that is pretty good proof that it is possible for someone to have caused it.
    Result: towers fall straight down in ten seconds, releasing lots of dust travelling at high speed.
    Possible cause: No way for two airplanes to cause that. Planned demolition could cause that. Therefore, it is possible that somebody set planned demolitions.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  273. Maddaugh says:

    Years ago I read a book by a fellow who travelled in the Brazilian Amazon and was an “adventurer”. He got lost taking a bird watching trip. It was an adventure indeed. This guy battled giant anacondas, barely escaped caimans, was chased by a jaguar and outran wild Indigenous headhunters (the Jivaro headhunting tribe live in Ecaudor not Brazil). During this wild ride he was bitten by a bushmaster but walked 20 miles to a military outpost. On the way he had to climb a palm tree covered in thorns to avoid a herd of wild peccary and a troupe of Howler monkeys pelted him with branches…. Anyway arriving at the post there was no one there and he had to administer himself. Just as he was recovering…………….well fill in the blanks. A lot of adventure for a two week journey. I suspect he was the mentor for Harrison Ford in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Looking at his photo on the back cover he looked like an overweight and well fed toad, far from any “adventurer” who had gone through any such hardship.

    Back then there was the good old phone directory and finding his name therein I called him. “Look, I have been in the bush and never experienced such thrilling journey. I never saw any of these animals. As a matter of fact, these wild animals run away at the slightest noise and are especially sensitive to and afraid of humans and the human smell.”

    “Well”, he told me “you know that and I know that but the general public does not. Besides if I wrote a book where I walked through the forest, smelled some flowers, made a cup of coffee, smoked a cigarette and jumped back on the boat to return to the resort who would buy the thing let alone read it”. He then rudely HUNG UP !

    So what is my point ? Simply this. Fred Breed writes all this nonsense not because any of it makes sense but to hit our buttons and get us all worked up. We are now at comment 276 of foaming, enraged readers who know what Fred writes is all bullshit and respond, some of them very discourteously and disrespectfully.

    Wait a sec. I have Fred on the line.

    Maddaugh: “Fred, what is all this twaddle you are writing these days. All this guff about China and now 9/11”.

    Fred: “I know its all dog shit, but the goal is readership not facts. If people are stupid enough to read my drivel and get pissed that is the goal. Anyway its Siesta time here in Ajijic so fuck off” CLICK !!!

    Maddaugh: “Yeah Fred fuck you too” !

  274. @Tom Welsh

    Isn’t there a problem with your theory that FDR made sure that Kimmel and Short weren’t properly warned in two facts. One that m any in DC believed Japan would attack the Philippines, which it also did, and that Macarthur *was warned* though he didn’t act on the warning. (Indeed the only important thing he ever got right was the way he ran Japan after the war).

  275. Anonymous[124] • Disclaimer says:

    Unfortunately, Fred suffers from terminal Hunter S. Thompson’s Disease…and not the kind that Vonnegut asserted: “From this moment on, let all those who feel that Americans can be as easily led to beauty as to ugliness, to truth as to public relations, to joy as to bitterness, be said to be suffering from Hunter Thompson’s disease.”

    What irked about Hunter was his never seeming to get beyond his shtik: adolescent snark coupled with excess and braggadocio, spiced by sparks of genius. Similarly, Fred is Heminwayesque in his being both a good– sometimes great– writer…yet unable to let go of his mewling machismo.

    At almost 76, Fred keeps pushing his younger Rambo/Cool Hand Luke persona. Like his preferred Padre Kino wine (https://tinyurl.com/rwbeffxd), it ain’t agin’ well.

    Instead of wisdom, we get the same old bar-bragging. The cigar-in-mouth “been-there-done-that” know-it-allness typical of the insecure. He acts like he can kick everyone’s arse. Yet he’s no Second Hand Lion (https://tinyurl.com/ymcda5re). Half blind from botched eye-surgery, he seems terrified to let his guard down…admit his limits and frailties.

    At the same time, Fearless Fred seems afraid to question certain events and groups. For example, he denies Jews having any sway, much less tons based on their religion (in truth, the USA is more Islamo-Christian than Judeo: Muslims view Jesus as a prophet AND didn’t kill Him!), nepotism, or monopolies per media and money.

    Now he, no engineer of any sort, claims to know absolutely that 2 jets toppled 3 buildings. And that L H Oswald alone killed JFK. And that space rats are eating the moon’s green cheese.

    Does the “Sage of Crumpler, VA” also think it nonsense that there were 13 assassination plots to kill Hitler? That the Lavon Affair was BS? That neocons did not cook up and “sell” the idea that Iraq had “weapons of mass destruction”? Does a writer, who routinely puts his ideas on paper, think other humans incapable of using THEIR creativity for other…and sometimes untoward…purposes?

    I just don’t get it. Fred has been smart, savvy, and often funny while also being insightful. Why has he turned into one of those “get off my lawn” cranks?

    He’s not an actor like Eastwood…who, at 91, still directs movies. In the new one he will again play a whoop-ass hombre. Like Fred, he will again display “minority worship” by riding to the rescue of a Beaner; Chinks were his victims in Gran Torino. Yet Mr. Eastwood “plays” at being a badass. At 76, Fred…who probably has trouble opening beer bottles…thinks he actually IS one.

    Fred’s redneck compatriot is JD Vance. Yet while JD is proud of his heritage (https://tinyurl.com/2nrcda6y), he doesn’t act like a lame, DELIVERANCE-ish hillbilly liquor-distiller, gun-running toothlessly on TV while clog-dancing. He has humility, gratitude, and couth…things Mr. Reed seems to have lost (if he ever had them)

    Sigh.

    How sad to see Fred sporting an alien-defying aluminum pie-plate on his pate now.

    Tragic even.

    • Replies: @utu
  276. joe862 says:

    just here to say I didn’t read it, don’t read fred anymore. Time to put this guy out to pasture.

  277. I don’t get it. Give me one story, about covid or the Towers, stick to it, show it clearly to be physically possible. Failing this, I have to think the we are dealing with shapes swirling in the inner fog instead of reality. Although I concede that traces of pixie dust were found in the rubble, and witnesses report a dancing light, consistent with Tinker Belle….

    Basically what Fred is saying here is: First select a conclusion, then just consider the facts that support that conclusion and then write a nice narrative as the report. Everyone is happy or should be.

    I have acted as the facilitatorof a support group for the parents and friends of people suffering from mental disorders and I can tell that reality as expressed by the people in the groups often exceeds anything one would dare write in a fiction story. I would think something similar works out in politics. Wasn’t Churchill suffering from bipolar disorder?

    Working groups such as the groups investigating 911 are often given statuses that limit the scope of their investigations by very clever lawyers. So it is quite normal that people feel they don’t get the complete story. Irony wont stop people to look for answers when there are serious flaws in the official narrative and relevant records are kept secret or are destroyed.

  278. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    Memory plays tricks on you when you write “Fred has been smart, savvy, and often funny while also being insightful.” Perhaps you were young then and “adolescent snark coupled with excess and braggadocio” appealed to you then. Fred Reed has not changed he always was a bully and a coward who was “afraid to question certain events and groups”.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  279. @Frederick V. Reed

    Congratulations Fred. Your casual contempt – well disrespect at least – has really brought out Ron’s dimwitted, semiliterate groupies who repeat over and over agan the most elementry errors (free fall, footprints, steel melting come immediately to mind) and share blustering absurdities. And you’ve even got to Ron. Mind you on the central lot of nonsense about how the WTC buildings came down it would have made sense to be more careful. I don’t think it is claimed that there would have been collapses without fire weakening of more than the outer frame.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  280. An embarrassingly stupid article.

    On the bright side, it means that Steve Sailer isn’t the biggest Coincidence Theorist writing for Unz. That “honor” clearly belongs to Fred Reed.

  281. @utu

    I used to enjoy fredoneverything and forgave him his eccentricities about evolution. Why do you think that someone comfortably retired in Mexico can be plausibly accused of being
    “afraid to question certain events and groups”?

  282. haha says:

    This article of Fred Reed set me thinking about his writings as a whole. He has been a witty and outstanding writer, often seeming to be totally non-conformist and calling out those who need to be called out. But after thinking through, a few points emerge:

    1. Much of his writing pokes fun at Government inefficiencies, never of key policies. Laughing at the Government is a favorite past-time of most, so he used this to cement his readership. A clever way to fly for a writer, always riding with the tailwind, never against headwind.

    2. His outstandingly funny writings on Trump and Hillary Clinton show much talent but also much skill in hedging bets. Think about it: he ridiculed both, made many laugh, but there never was any risk for Mr. Reed. Actually, he reinforced the mainstream campaign of painting Trump as a clown, while criticism never could pierce the protective armor put by the mainstream over Hillary. I now see that Fred knew exactly what he was doing. He had us fooled for so long!

    3. While he cannot be dismissed as a hired hack, he has used his talents cunningly and cynically – with loyalty to no values, belief, or truth.

  283. @saggy

    Well said. And there’s much more, much of which I have attempted to delineate carefully. The trouble is that falling back on my minimalist conspiracy theories, the simplest of which doesn’t even directly implicate Israel leaves Ron in the position he is with his Covid theory that he doesn’t actually know who the neocons are that he might plausibly acuse beyond some general observations about, for Covid, Pompeo and Bolton.

  284. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Ron’s dimwitted, semiliterate groupies who repeat over and over agan the most elementry errors (free fall, footprints, steel melting come immediately to mind) and share blustering absurdities. And you’ve even got to Ron.

    LOL. Are you still convinced that JFK was accidentally shot and killed by one of his own Secret Service men? If I didn’t know better, I’d assume that there was nobody in the world stupid and gullible enough to believe such a ridiculous theory.

    From what I vaguely remember, you said you saw someone explain it on television and he convinced you. You seem to believe that everything the TeeVee box tells you must be true…

  285. AaronB says:
    @Mike Fridelle

    I probably shouldn’t have said random White loser. What I meant, is someone who feels himself to be a random White loser – or loser of any race.

    From my POV, there is no such thing as a loser, because the point of life is not to “win”.

    Beyond the search for personal importance and meaning in history, there is the very real and accurate perception that something is very wrong with our elites, our society, and our institutions. They are no longer credible and trustworthy.

    Although this is a global phenomenon, and has to do with our reigning philosophies – materialism, scientism, etc. Chinese elites and institutions for instance are even more cynical and dystopian than ours.

    But yes, it’s not only a search for meaning and self worth, although that’s a big part – it’s also a very accurate and troubling perception that our society and our reigning philosophies have developed an almost “malignant” aspect to then, globally.

    This vague, incohate sense of growing “menace” – which how could a philosophy like capitalism and Darwinian competition fail to produce? – bleeds into conspiracy theories which are an attempt to give form to this feeling.

    But CTs are a massive distraction, however interesting from a symbolic point if view – we would do so much better to direct our energies at dismantling materialism, scientism, ruthless competition, etc – THAT is the true source of our growing unease and sense of menace, not Jews, Freemasons, thousand year plots, or even, in the end, “elites”, who are as much victims of these pernicious philistines as we are.

  286. @Pat Kittle

    That’s what the Wahabis were trying to do, that is knock them over. They’re that simple minded. They thought jets could knock a building over. The question posted on various eng. listservs was, “My manager wants to know if we fire a test plug at a wall, will be knocked over?”

    That the fires precipitated failure via causing the steel to yield and the columns buckle was an unforeseen occurrence.

  287. Nate D. says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Fred, I don’t know anything about demolishing skyscrapers but I can spot a logical fallacy when I see one. You are claiming that either a very complicated and hard to conceal installation of explosives brought the towers down or it was entirely the result of two aircraft flying into them: A or B. When in fact it’s either a question of A or A+B, that is, whether the shearing force of impact and the subsequent fire were sufficient to neatly destroy the buildings. I don’t have an informed opinion on that, however, if I were making a point to discredit all conspiracy theorist I wouldn’t begin with a very sloppy argument.

    You wrote your column out of animus for conspiracy theorists – well I don’t like you either. I think for the sake of balance Ron Unz should allow me to write an article psycho-analyzing aged, profane but pompous writers.

  288. Antiwar7 says:
    @lavoisier

    I agree with the great value of this website, and I also think this article by Fred is not very interesting, entertaining, or useful. But I do find Fred’s writing interesting in general. I used to read him on his own website before reading him here at unz.com.

    • Agree: Rogue
  289. @James Speaks

    And they yielded so quickly, too.

  290. CMC says:
    @Anonymous

    Or on the weekends.

    Or some combination of both.

  291. Fred must be having a childhood relapse. He has become that kid who stirs up the ant nest with his stick and chortles over how they scurry this way and that. It’s all cantankerously childish fun to the old fart. Perhaps I’d do the same were I sitting on the patio downing my lager and bored for some entertainment. Well played, Fred. Well played indeed.

  292. Mulegino1 says:
    @James Speaks

    That the fires precipitated failure via causing the steel to yield and the columns buckle was an unforeseen occurrence.

    The upper floors were supported by massive steel perimeter and core columns, along with transverse steel supports and concrete floor pans.

    The hydrocarbon based office fires could not have precipitated a universal symmetrical “collapse,” least of all one that was virtually identical in both WTC1 and 2.

    If commercial airliners impacted the buildings and if the explosion of their jet fuel had created the fireballs, the fires would have been localized and the damage would have been asymmetrical and any “collapse” would have been partial and local.

    Steel framed skyscrapers, such as the one in Dubai or the Windsor Tower in Madrid, have burned red hot for days without experiencing a catastrophic failure of their entire structure, and in these cases, the fires were much larger, hotter and more intense.

    The likelihood that the destruction of the Twin Towers, WTC 7, and the core of WTC 6 were caused by localized, hydrocarbon based office fires is virtually zero.

  293. @anon

    It’s one thing to say that we conspiracy theorist‘s don’t have the full truth. It’s another to just, carte blanche, accept the official story. As a journalist, is Fred just showing his bias? Since the official story always comes through the media?

  294. @AaronB

    ‘…From my POV, there is no such thing as a loser…’

    You do walk into these things.

    Try standing in front of a mirror. You’ll be forced to modify your opinion.

  295. @Ron Unz

    Well said–but I’m sure you already know, don’t go arguing with the pigheaded, or paid, Wiz. It’s a thankless task. But yes, he’s never encountered a tee vee show down in Oz that didn’t positively tickle him pink.

  296. @AaronB

    ‘…THAT is the true source of our growing unease and sense of menace, not Jews, Freemasons, thousand year plots, or even, in the end, “elites”, who are as much victims of these pernicious philistines as we are.’

    But if so, how come the champions of the most pernicious of these doctrines are so often Jews?

    I genuinely wish it weren’t so — but it is. I was reading some screed last night that swiftly turned into an attack on Trump voters who won’t get vaccinated, and I said to myself, ‘is the author of this Jewish?’

    Bingo. She was. And it’s not ‘every.single.time.’, but it’s a good half the time — and this for a group that’s only two percent of the population.

    Maybe it really is the Jews. It certainly looks that way. You’re Jewish. Can you explain why this is?

    Don’t try to rationalize it, or say it isn’t there, or redirect. Offer us a sincere explanation of why it should be.

  297. Wokechoke says:
    @another fred

    Yes I agree at the 37:00 40:00 Mark two Zionists discuss what might have happened to the Israeli bomb of Kennedy had lived. I take it as a confession.

  298. @Gina Schrank

    Where can Unz be found denouncing his own website and views?

  299. @Mulegino1

    Skyscraper fires aren’t caused by jets slamming into them at 500 mph, loaded full with jet fuel, and steel girders and supports do not need to melted as ore in a Bessemer furnace to be weakened to the point of collapse for the whole building. Hydrocarbon fires are hot enough (4000F) to make steel and so are hot enough to weaken and melt steel. Consult with your high school Physics and Chemistry textbooks.

  300. @Joe Levantine

    Mr Reed seems to regard himself as hard boiled, street smart, realistic. You know, shoe leather reporter who’s seen it all.

    I think he’s biased against the idea of state treachery. That’s my impression anyway. So he may be disinclined to look at facts that falsify official stories about crimes.

    That lots of these facts are pretty obvious annoys him, is my guess. Bias sabotages reason.

    • Agree: Joe Levantine
    • Replies: @anon
  301. @Michael Meo

    “You don’t believe it was done by Arabs flying airplanes, even with all the video evidence, impossible to fake.”
    Do you have a video that shows faces of pilots flying at least 1 out of 4 9/11 airplanes
    right into the target ?! I mean not a fake video (your mere word would be enough, of
    course).
    Then why don’t you release it for the rest of the world and stop the endless discussions?
    As for
    “You cannot affirm that anyone Did It, without establishing whether it was possible for
    them to have Done It”

    Again, it was done by people (even you agree with that), not extra-terrestrials.
    So, if according to your logic it was possible for 19 young strangers without any help from
    the locals, let alone powerful locals, then it could’ve been done by any other group of people.
    Which makes the MOTIVE and CAPABILITY (actually, even more than the motive in this
    case) the 2 primary leads to consider.

    • Replies: @Anonymouse
  302. Che Guava says:
    @Rich

    Perhaps Fred is just being a clown.

  303. anon[800] • Disclaimer says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Why does nobody answer the question of how it was done?

    the advent of life

    the advent of time

    the advent of existence

    is there anyone here that can explain how it was done?

    if not, does that mean that none of it is real?

    I once killed a rat without anyone’s knowledge, and did so in a peculiar way, does the fact that no living human knows how, mean I didn’t do it?

    How did Jeffrey Epstein die? If no one can explain exactly how, does that mean we must all accept the official narrative, no matter how preposterous?

    Ditto Seth Rich, Gary Webb, and God knows how many others..

    I suppose if I don’t accept the official account of Michael Hastings’ death, it can only mean I’m wearing a tin foil hat, huh Fredo?

    What a rotten soul you’ve sold to the devil for your thirty shekels. He was gypped.

    • Replies: @Gordon K. Shumway
  304. anon[800] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark Humphrey

    I think he’s biased against the idea of state treachery.

    no, he’s just a whore

    signaling his wide open orifices to the highest ((bidder))

    they’ve been around since the beginning of time, alas

  305. @Eric Novak

    You stubbornly ignore Mulegino1’s main point — the SYMMETRICAL collapse of all 3 WTC towers.

    The notion that all support columns weakened to the point of collapse simultaneously in all 3 towers is comically absurd to anyone of average intelligence capable of independent thought — ESPECIALLY regarding WTC-7, with its absence of airplane impacts, “localized office fires,” and Lucky Larry Silverstein himself saying they decided to “pull it.” You do know what “pull it” means, don’t you?

    “9-11 – ISRAEL DID IT” – Wikispooks:
    (wikispooks.comwikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it)

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
    , @Eric Novak
  306. UFOs are real. The U.S. government admits it and has videos and photos of them.

    So, another Conspiracy Theory has been validated. BOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAH!!!!

    Sorry Fred.

  307. jonejinx says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    1) “There is a huge conspiracy to pretend that large numbers of people are dying of Covid.” I’ve never heard that one. It’s much more likely that doctors, hospitals, and bureaucrats in government tended to mark deaths “WITH Coved” as “FROM Covid” due to both political pressure and big financial incentives (example of the latter here).

    I think that one’s being hyped more by the MSM and the Left than the usual suspects.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  308. @Mulegino1

    The hydrocarbon based office fires could not have precipitated a universal symmetrical “collapse,” least of all one that was virtually identical in both WTC1 and 2.

    That’s got to be the fuckingest most stupid thing I’ve read today.

    Could not possibly …. Must have. ….. blah blah woof woof and all from some gormless internet expert who doesn’t know the difference between Young’s modulus and Neil Young, who gets all his information from other gits who repeat drivel everyone knows. You’re so challenged by a few relevant facts that all you can do is parrot, peck and repeat.

    Face it. You’re ignorant, you’re stupid, and you’ve been called out.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  309. @Tom67

    The explanation for WTC7 is the fact that Silverman made a pile of money from the insurance company. the 911 event was a confluence of many interests and motives one of which was insurance. Just checkout Silverman’s total payout…..

    As for Fred; he’s just jerking chains again – something he is good at.

    • Disagree: Sean
    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  310. @Pat Kittle

    ^ [Corrected link for my previous comment (#313)]

    “9-11 – ISRAEL DID IT” – Wikispooks:
    — (https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it)

  311. As usual for Fred, his output swings between two extremes: must read and ignore. All I had to do with this one was look at the title and subtitle to know that it belongs in the “Ignore” bin. Always one to give benefit of the doubt, I read the first paragraph, but quickly realized that second guessing myself was unnecessary.

  312. @Pat Kittle

    They didn’t collapse simultaneously, and all non WTC structures in the shadows of the WTC were undermined by the collapse of the WTC itself. Large structures in Berlin, May 1945, were easily demolished by neighboring collapses, which were everywhere.

  313. @TraLaLa

    “towers fall straight down in ten seconds,”

    False.

    https://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/freefall.html

    Even Jim Hoffman is honest enough to note about the North Tower collapse that:

    —–
    The CNN video suggests that it takes about yen seconds for the bottom of the mushrooming dust cloud to reach the ground, and another 7 or so for the top to reach the ground…

    10:28:23 Top of the North Tower starts to break apart

    10:28:31 Rubble starts to hit the ground (start of big signal)

    10:28:36 The heaviest rubble hits the ground (peak of big signal)

    10:28:39 Most heavy rubble has reached the ground (end of big signal)
    —–

    The collapse of the North Tower actually took about 17 seconds, from 10:28:23 to 10:28:39, not 10 seconds.

    Although there isn’t as clear a view of the South Tower’s collapse, Hoffman is able to gauge that the first 32 floors fell in about 5 seconds before the dust cloud obscures the view. But if one extrapolated from those 32 floors in 5 seconds out to 110 floors then you would likewise deduce about 17 seconds.

  314. sorry meant Silverstein.

  315. @Mulegino1

    The Windsor Tower is a false parallel to the WTC Towers. The Windsor Tower was built with steel-reinforced concrete, whereas the Twin Towers were 100% steel-framed.

    https://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/windsor.html

    What makes the Windsor Tower really interesting is the way that people reported hearing explosions in the building”

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/raging-fire-consumes-madrid-office-building

    “At least nine upper stories were on fire and muffled explosions could be heard in the building.”

    Unfortunately, 911truthers tend not to notice the sounds of explosions when it doesn’t seem to play their way. So any sound of an explosion at the WTC is proof of bombs, but at the Windsor Tower it’s proof of crickets.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  316. SBaker says:
    @anon

    I like Fred’s articles most of the time, and this is a reasonable one. Connecting the dots is not easy, especially when there are a thousand of them scattered randomly on a single page, but, by gosh, CTs can do it no matter the challenge. I’m not saying the truth is always printed, but sometimes it is, and truth or not, we always face the CT challenge. I think we also need to keep in mind, that muslims are especially adept at attacking soft targets, and the Twin Towers were just that. As always, this site is dripping with muslim sympathizers.

  317. They didn’t collapse simultaneously, and all non WTC structures in the shadows of the WTC were undermined by the collapse of the WTC itself. Large structures in Berlin, May 1945, were easily demolished by neighboring collapses, which were everywhere.

    You disingenuously pretend I mean all 3 WTC towers collapsed at the same time.

    I dispute that the fires alone would cause “…support columns [& walls] weakened to the point of collapse simultaneously in all 3 towers….”

    I obviously mean the simultaneity occurred in each individual building.

    You’re surely smart enough to realize that. When you belabor a point like that you act like a typical hasbara troll. Briefly perusing your Comments History I give you the benefit of the doubt, and (for now) assume you’re not.

    As for carpet-bombed Berlin, its building codes were not likely up to modern standards, especially considering much of Berlin had been built long before buildings were designed to withstand large airplane impacts, as was the WTC.

    You continue to ignore Lucky Larry (“Pull it”) Silverstein ordering the destruction of WTC-7, when the logistics for a controlled demolition of such a building takes weeks, NOT hours.

    “9-11 – ISRAEL DID IT” – Wikispooks:
    — (https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it)

  318. @Sailor1031

    As for Fred; he’s just jerking chains again – something he is good at.

    Shabbos Fred’s been living comfortably off the US taxpayers he mocks, after having participated in a bogus war based on a Big Lie (Tonkin Gulf “incident”).

    Meanwhile he defends the (((war criminals))) who actually did attack a US Navy ship (USS Liberty) with the intent of killing everyone on board and false-flagging the US into starting (yet another) war for the Terrorist Theocracy of Eretz Yisrael:

    — (https://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html)

  319. @Tom Welsh

    > No diplomatic complaint was ever made to Israel.

    This can’t be true. Israel paid many millions of dollars in reparations for attacking the USS Liberty and many millions of dollars to the relatives of the sailors killed.

    According to Wikipedia “In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US\$3.32 million (equivalent to US\$24.7 million in 2020) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further \$3.57 million (\$25.2 million in 2020) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay \$6 million (\$18.8 million in 2020) as the final settlement for material damage to Liberty itself plus 13 years of interest.[9]”

    That an American flag was visible on the U.S.S. Liberty wouldn’t prove anything about whose ship it was.

  320. @AB_Anonymous

    Mohammed Atta was photographed full face upon entering the secured area of an airport in Maine to take a flight to Logan in Boston. Other photos of Atta from his earlier life show the same man. It is also known that Atta trained in the US at flight schools. Taking over a jet plane already in the air and changing the auto pilot headings is not rocket science.

    Also the notion that an Israeli talked him and the other suicide bombers into the project strikes me as ludicrous. That Israeli intelligence knew in advance of the plot is just assumed. How would they have accomplished that?

    I believe the identity of the other 18 hijackers/suicide bombers have been published.

  321. @Anonymouse

    Anonymouse the hasbara Jew troll:

    Typical of (((your kind))), expecting the goyim to be grateful because Israel reluctantly coughed up a trifling \$58.7 million (corrected for inflation) for its Act of War against its BFF, the US.

    And what did the goyim get for their \$58.7 million?

    ======================

    Cover-Up Alleged in Probe of USS Liberty
    — (https://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html)

    A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.

    In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy’s inquiry to “conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.”

    It was “one of the classic all-American cover-ups,” said retired Admiral Thomas Moorer, a former Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman who spent a year investigating the attack as part of an independent panel he formed with other former military officials. The panel also included a former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia, James Akins.

    Torpedo hole in USS Liberty

    “Why would our government put Israel’s interests ahead of our own?” Moorer asked from his wheelchair at the news conference. He was chief of naval operations at the time of the attack.

    Moorer, who has long held that the attack was a deliberate act, wants Congress to investigate. [Newsday]

    Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

    [CONTINUED]:
    — (https://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html)

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  322. @Anonymouse

    ‘… That Israeli intelligence knew in advance of the plot is just assumed…’

    No…that much is an established fact. They scouted their filming location the day in advance — then were there filming as the attack took place. The FBI was so suspicious it held them for ten weeks before apparently succumbing to political pressure and turning them loose.

    It’s about as assumed as the moon landings were faked. We know it happened.

  323. @Anonymouse

    ‘This can’t be true. Israel paid many millions of dollars in reparations for attacking the USS Liberty and many millions of dollars to the relatives of the sailors killed.’

    Yes — but the settlements all granted the polite fiction that the attack was accidental or that the Israelis didn’t realize full well that the ship was American. Among others, our Secretary of State at the time, Dean Rusk, is on record as stating the attack was deliberate and made in the certain knowledge that the ship was American.

  324. @Anonymouse

    ‘That an American flag was visible on the U.S.S. Liberty wouldn’t prove anything about whose ship it was.’

    Kinda like those ships in Pearl Harbor on December 7th. Just because they were flying American flags didn’t prove they were American. It was honest mistake!

    • Replies: @Sean
  325. Gespenst says:

    Funny, Army demolition training stressed staying calm after lighting the fuse and not running off like a startled jackrabbit.

  326. geokat62 says:
    @Anonymouse

    That Israeli intelligence knew in advance of the plot is just assumed. How would they have accomplished that?

    The 166-page Shea Memorandum explains how…

    http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/MemorandumtotheCommissionandSelectCommitteesbold.pdf

    • Thanks: Pat Kittle
  327. @DanFromCT

    Bravo

    Equating real evidence with absurdities about aliens and so on is called poisoning the well

    And it’s the oldest Jew trick of them all, in a very, very old and sick world. In the ancient world Jesus himself, condemning the hypocritical filth, called it “leavening” in the context of the religious teachings – which meant, and still means, mixing in a small amount of a powerful substance, which nevertheless causes a very strong adverse effect on the whole – ie. corrupting the root meaning and purpose:

    Then Jesus said unto them, “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees”.

    – Matthew 16:6, King James Version

    But since then, of course, Jews discovered that mixing a small amount of leaven – by importing foreign, unassimilable, illiterate and hostile third-worlders – into an advanced nation will corrupt, weaken and destroy that nation, as surely as leaven makes bread rise and poison makes the well useless. Mass immigration is precisely the same Jew trick, writ large, as the small trick of quietly corrupting and changing religious teachings they don’t want to observe.

    Jews. Same old, same old.

  328. @thotmonger

    He does not subscribe to — or stand for — anything. Reed fully admits he is a mercenary

    With all due respect, isn’t that just a different way of saying that he DOES “subscribe to” and “stand for” something – which in his case is the principle of money as a sole goal ?

    You can decry it all you like on whatever grounds you choose – but it’s as valid an approach to life as anything else to those so inclined.

    • Replies: @thotmonger
  329. thatguy says:

    I’ve never read anything so ignorant of reality

  330. @Weaver

    What does any of this comment have to do with Fred Reed’s article about conspiracy theorists ?

    • Replies: @Weaver
  331. Sean says:
    @Maddaugh

    Wait a second, isn’t RICO a legal instrument designed to snag people who “conspire to .commit a crime”., people who would normally slip through the net.

    The Mafia or Cosa Nostra, swear an oath to the organization in the same way as the US army or CIA. To me a conspiracy theory is about people having a secret allegiance quite different to their ostensible one.

    He wont listen after all he is a Marine hero

    He has a certain amount of experience in military operations “no plan survives contact with the enemy”. Fiendishly complex false fag operations being sucessfully mounted against the world’s most powerful state are perhaps less plausible to Fred than to you,

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
    • Replies: @Maddaugh
  332. Sean says:
    @Colin Wright

    But Pearl Harbor was not a false flag, Nine eleven is supposed to have been.

  333. @Sean

    ‘But Pearl Harbor was not a false flag, Nine eleven is supposed to have been.’

    Since the reference was to the attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, the relevance of your comment escapes me.

  334. @Sean

    In the context to which you are responding the parallel was not Pearl Harbor and 911 but rather Pearl Harbor and the USS Liberty.

    I may add that there was an intriguing book published way back under the authorship of John Loftus and Mark Aarons entitled The Secret War Against the Jews. This book is principally an Israeli apologia of sorts done in the same that the Papacy in its days of power used to grind out propaganda defending the Pope. But it has enough interesting admissions scattered throughout to make it worth the while. For example, Loftus and Aarons claim that James Forrestal was correct, not blindly paranoid, in believing that Israeli agents were spying on him. They even claim that David Ben Gurion at the time regarded Forrestal as “Zionist Enemy Number One.”

    Loftus and Aarons charge that the USS Liberty was collecting information on Israel to be passed on to the Arabs. James Ennes has rejected this version of events. What makes the Loftus/Aarons book intriguing on this point is that they do claim that the USS Liberty was deliberately, knowingly targeted as a US ship. They simply claim that the Israelis had good reason to do this because supposedly LBJ wanted to help the Arabs by giving them intelligence. I don’t buy the latter at all, but their acknowledgement that the attack on the USS Liberty was not accidental is noteworthy.

    Supposedly their book was written with lots of interviews and corroboration by intelligence agencies, including the CIA and Mossad. So they would have had access to people able to authoritatively confirm that the Israelis knew that they were attacking a US ship. It’s just that their version of why the ship was attacked would have been doctored in advance to fit a script.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Sean
  335. Druid55 says:

    I didn’t read the article. Freddy is a waste of space! Ron Unz should replace him with someone more interesting and credible. The Derb is another one

  336. anaccount says:

    A public danger, Fred? If your clot shot works so well, why do you care if I get one? Go get your monthly booster and put your fag gag back on.

  337. @Ron Unz

    Oh dear, I now see why you haven’t used that delicately chosen insult “ederly” recently. Memories do deteriorate with age indeed, but it is a bit sad when symptoms show at 60.

    I have now explained several times when you have brought up your poorly remembered “whataboutyou” argument that I was convinced by something I merely thought plausible enough to be considered after seeing a quite well produced documentary on maybe YouTube or the History Channel. (I also followed a link or two to discover what had become of the litigation based on it.) It was simply plausible enough not to be dismissed out of hand, as a matter of logic, by one who knew of no proof that the fatal shot had to come from the front. I didn’t.

    You should remember that I was never “convinced” but that it fits with my preference for applying Occam’sRazor and therefore seeing if any given conspiracy theory can be cut down so that no great evil has to be posited, nor large numbers of people to maintain perpetual silence. While very few people who might have known that version would have felt that any good would have come of it being publicly admitted (not even an important addition to understanding why Oswald was in the Book Depository with a rifle) I would have expected that, by now, someone would have come clean. Therefore, as you have brought it up for consideration again, I now think it would barely rate a mention by a new Warren Commission except for it to say “for the sake of completeness the Commission located and took depositions from all the surviving Secret Service people who were responsible for protecting the President in late 1963”.

    You have alerted me to something much more persuasive concerning the evidence for demolitions of the WTC. As there were hundreds of people who knew each other and who heard what they described as explosions why haven’t they got together to make a clamour about it? As they were, typically, firemen and there were so many killed, what was made of those “explosions” in litigation. Don’t tell me that some entrepreneurial lawyers wouldn’t have suggested that the families of those killed couldn’t do better by pressing the case that the WTC owners had negligently allowed the Towers to be wired for demolition.

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    , @Ron Unz
  338. @Patrick McNally

    Interesting. I start with the presumption that an attack on a US ship intended to kill everyone which is generally alleged would have to be authorised by Levi Eshkol or Moshe Dayan. Now you mention some conceivable motive. I think I’ll wait till I get it from some authors other than Mark Aarons and John Loftus. Aarons’ father was the Australian Communist Laurie Aaron’s and he himself didn’t cease to be an avowedly Communist activist until 1978. What I can find out about Loftus gives me no confidence that he would know much about anything important – which might help to explain sensational story telling.

  339. @Ron Unz

    That’s great, Ron. Now you are ad homineming and trolling your most faithful readers.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Troll: GeneralRipper, L.K
  340. @Pat Kittle

    Is there any evidence connecting either PM Levi Eshkol or Minister of Defence Moshe Dayan to the ordering of the attack? BtW what happened to the pilot after he was arrested?

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  341. @anon

    Looks like the beaner Fred married is getting to him

  342. My 89 year old grandad (who still lectures in Moscow at the FSB) said something similar: “documentary evidence please!”.. well, he shouted and didn’t say please, and then left (we were talking about Israel stealing nuclear tech and uranium from the US). I’m gonna hit him with the same statement when he brings up the Holocaust for a little bit of fun! (He thinks Biden can’t lie cause he’s “the President”, so there is a lot to work on!)

  343. remo says:

    To the ‘jet impact/fuel/office fire/ metal softening + gravity = collapse’ psyop: The Towers were 110 stories high. Each floor was 1 (one) Acre +- 5″ to 7″ poured concrete between 47 core box column inner structure and 236 outer box column structure. 110 floors top down demolition times between 11 and 14 secs+- average out # floors+-/per Second demolished at steady acceleration (no momentum conserved) = lets say 10 +- acres of cold concrete flooring per Second turned into hot rapidly expanding dust. 6% of that DUST being molten steel spheroids (molten spit)(Lee) 10 acres. HOT dust.
    Per second.
    Where is energy delivery in cold collapse scenario if no fires below the strike zones ?
    I am not certain how long a second is in the fire induced gravity collapse universe but in this one, 1 of them is not long enough to atomise 10 acres +- of concrete flooring without considerable help.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  344. ivan says:

    The sheer stupidity of the 9/11 truthers is a wonder to behold. Each feeding off each other, expanding on “maybes” to certainties, manufacturing “facts”, slanting the story one way and then another. A cynic may say this has all the elements of a Mossad “psyops” just to see how stupid people can get. But then the retort will be that is what “they” want us to think.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  345. Sean says:
    @Patrick McNally

    Nine eleven as a false flag by Israel would have been the most successful-against-long-odds, next technologically advanced, coordinated without communications, and gigantic covert operation in human history. Unparalled.

  346. @Colin Wright

    Why isn’t my totally imagined version that some Israeli aligned neocons close to the President managed to make sure he never took action on the many warnings that were received from FBI, CIA – and maybe Israel – just as good as the improbable idea that Israel didn’t pass on warnings at all? And wouldn’t you have counted on Israel to be able to say “our people were certainly tracking some of the dangerous characters we knew were in the US but we were talking so frequently with FBI and CIA people about just that, that our people couldn’t imagine they had so completely failed to connect the dots or pass it on”.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  347. Stephane says:
    @pythagoras

    I think you forgot one thing : there was a lot of basement and parking space underground, below and around the floor level.

    I’ve seen (sorry, I don’t remember where ) a quick, back-of-an-enveloppe math that showed there was enough room there for most of the debris in that space, explaining why there was no huge rubble pile above ground.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  348. @Dave Bowman

    With all due respect, isn’t that just a different way of saying that he DOES “subscribe to” and “stand for” something – which in his case is the principle of money as a sole goal ?

    A: No. To “stand for” Mammon is to stand for nothing at all. Mercenaries epitomize this when they hire out for the purpose of killing and causing misery. Same same with keyboard hitmen. At least prostitutes sell their bodies to give pleasure, however ephemeral.

    You can decry it all you like on whatever grounds you choose – but it’s as valid an approach to life as anything else to those so inclined.

    This is mafia ecology; the cold reasoning of the amoral man. With all due respect, it is not an inclination. It is a choice. Always. Otherwise, the human being can lay no to claim to having the least bit of consciousness. Intuition tells me Reed understands this. Abundantly.

    https://pastormikeandersons.blogspot.com/2018/02/do-you-ever-feel-sorry-for-judas.html

  349. Colonel Corn

    Ah, yes! The good old honeytrap! That would account for it.
    Ugly intellectual who never got laid in school gets mysteriously courted by gorgeous woman. And gets had. Turned. Well. I can’t say I blame them. It’s the way of the world. Who wouldn’t?
    Webster Tarpley was such another, wasn’t he?
    I used to read Tarpley’s every word. I doted on him. For ten years. I thought there was nobody like him. Watch his lecture on the Gunpowder Plot, and I think you will see my point. That is, before E Michael Jones.
    Then, suddenly, Tarpley turned. “It’s the US that is being threatened by the world; not the other way around…”. The man who never just called his political enemies names, suddenly did. “Trump – fascist!”. Tarpley had never called the Bushies nazis; instead, using historical method, he proved they were.
    Why did Tarpley turn?
    Well, I don’t know. But someone intimated there was a honeytrap.
    By the way, what’s a “beaner”? As I foreigner I don’t quite get the lingo.

    • Replies: @Rex Little
  350. @Wizard of Oz

    I didn’t read the article. Freddy is a waste of space! Ron Unz should replace him with someone more interesting and credible. The Derb is another one

    Fred & Derb (& others) obviously know (((whodunit))), but in feigning ignorance they are less threatening to visiting “normies” who realize official narratives stink, but aren’t ready to connect all the (((dots))).

    As we commenters debunk their disingenuous posts (like Fred’s here) & the comments of (((trolls))), normies can connect the (((dots))) at their own speed.

    (I doubt that they are, but) IF Fred & Derb types are knowingly playing this role, I commend them for sacrificing their credibility for the greater good.

    Whatever their motives, Ron’s right to grant them access to a great website. We don’t want to become a mirror image of woke sites, where preaching to the choir is the full scope of permissible discourse.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  351. The whackiest conspiracy theory I’ve heard about 9/11 is the one pushed by the government and its media whores.

    • Agree: Mulegino1
  352. Gobs of straw men and proud ignorance. Even NIST had no explanation as to why building 7 fell. Every major study on fluoride has shown that it hurts the learning ability of children — there’s even an ongoing court case in San Francisco. I’d love for Fred to read The Plot to Kill King by William Pepper and then tell us that James Earl Ray was the lone shooter. If you did this, Fred, you could eternally discredit yourself in the eyes of everyone.

  353. Brewer says:
    @Sean

    Think about what you are saying; 9/11 was a false flag with the entire resources of a country like Israel behind it yet with the survival on that country at stake if they were found out, they did it so stupidly that it could be seen through by ordinary people listening to architects and engineers?

    I do not think that such considerations remotely concern the perpetrators of deeds on this grand a scale. It is a “known” that there will be a full spectrum of belief in any such case. The evidence for this is right here on this page. All that is needed is control of the narrative in a few key positions. There is no “proof” that is unassailable.
    Polls indicate that more than 40% of Americans do not buy the official narrative. More than half either don’t buy it or are undecided. It really doesn’t matter what people believe if the perpetrators have enough key operatives in place in Government and the media.

    Take the current Covid narrative for example. Renowned and credentialed epidemiologists called it shonky from the very start (Ioannidis, Bhattacharya, Wittkowski and several other German experts whose names I cannot recall, Yeadon etc). Even now, as the reputation of the “vaccine” is in tatters (a little jab’ll do ya……well OK, two jabs………Ok well it won’t stop ya gettin’ it or passing it on, it’ll stop ya getting too bad or dying……Yeah well, 3 jabs oughta fix it………..don’t talk about the Israel thing….) the jabbernaught rolls on. Truth and reality do not matter. “Will people believe” is not a consideration. It is more “are all our ducks in a row?”
    Today’s “truth” is a manufactured concept. It is malleable. This is also a “known” in certain circles.

    The Israeli State would not have been greatly affected if Netanyahu had been photographed parachuting from one of the airliners. It has survived equally barbarous scandals – King David, Lavon, Liberty.

    • Agree: InnerCynic
  354. Weaver says:
    @Dave Bowman

    Ron Unz wrote: “For those interested in joining Fred in producing devastating critiques of my research work, here’s a link to the entire series, now also conveniently available as an eBook:”

    I attacked his Covid theory, his minimum wage theory, and then partially his article on the Bolsheviks being Jewish and coming to power with funding from private American Jews. There’s a lot of info in the 200 Years book which would improve Unz’s articles. While it is important that the Bolsheviks were Jewish, it is also important that they lost power.

    He’s welcome to delete my reply. I was just excited to be able to reply with such criticisms.

  355. @Pat Kittle

    Who are you replying to with that anti-Semitisg rant about a couple of aging but still sometimes witty clever men?

    It has nothing to do with what I posted about the decisions behind the USS Liberty attack.

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  356. Maddaugh says:
    @Sean

    He has a certain amount of experience in military operations

    Fred was a mere rifleman if his claim is valid. All too often I find those who claim to have had a glorious stint in the military have not. Anyway, I will take his word for it. As a mere infantryman I doubt Fred has had any experience in anything more complex than patrolling and the usual basic infantry training. Graduates of the US found that when they went to the Nam, their training had not prepared them for anything. So to a great extent Fred is just an amateur in terms of military operations. That means his “expertise” is limited to the size of a postage stamp. He himself stated he could crimp a small charge blah blah and that was it. Yet he waxes on what could not have happened explosive wise on 9/11.

    Fiendishly complex false fag operations being sucessfully mounted against the world’s most powerful state are perhaps less plausible to Fred than to you,

    In my opinion Fred just wrote all this shit to stir up the natives. He probably sits back with his LAtina, reads the comments and has an enormous chuckle. Good for him ! But in a matter so serious, and with such serious consequences not only in the now but way into the future, it seems to he he could have got his jollies in some other topic.

    He has lost all credibility due to his continued hypocrisy and the silliness of his articles. I dont know about other UR readers but if I want to be entertained there are always reruns of Bugs Bunny on YouTube.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Sean
  357. @Ron Unz

    I have never watched Sky News but, having just said that I was not a believer in the Wuhan lab leak version of how the pandemic started I was advised to watch the nubile Sharri Markson’s one hour doco based on interviews for her book “What Really Happened in Wuhan?” (Harper Collins) and a follow up half hour of her being interviewed.  I did and I suggest you do, at least if you want to know what you are up against if you are still pushing your April 2020 inspiration.

    The reason I mention it here is [I think, but I’m tired and may have lost that not so obvious thread] that  you have a parallel case where you hypothesise neocon rogues who treacherously and idiotically start the US down a disastrous path.

    The documentary finds a lot of blame to share around without her even calling Trump a pathetic unconvincing liar to his face. She dates the Wuhan lab leak at least implicitly to late September 2019 when the WIV data base of coronaviruses was allegedly taken off line.  Her reports of illness in various countries’ military athletes which did not go unnoticed by intelligence serves as possible, indeed plausible, explanation for that ABC Radio and Israel TV reporting that gave lift  off to your theory.  The WHO is said, with some backing, to have been in the pocket of the  CCP.  Then Americans get major blame for Fauci’s part in reopening gain of function at Wuhan and providing money (after the French who got it going were kicked out) while the biggest villain was Peter Daszak who not only spent years working at WIV on gain of function but got himself appointed to the inquiry which whitewashed the Istitute and even cooked up the infamous Lancet article.
    A person whose name I didn’t know (I know an earlier lot of heads of MI6) was interviewed, Sir Richard Dearlove,. He described the problem of getting lab leak articles published in respectable journals last year.  He is now Master of Pembroke College, Cambridge where I have an attractive young female relative. She is very good at chatting people up .  Anything you might like asked?

    The veracity of the contents hereof is subject to no warranty . Over to you.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @showmethereal
  358. @Maddaugh

    Fred was a smart witty man with a good BS detector and a big heart (I think) when I was first introduced. I used to get great pleasure from his http://www.fredoneverything but life’s too short now and I just glanced at his article to see if there was anything novel then down the comments to see if he had managed to get a rise out of old mate Ron.

  359. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I have never watched Sky News but, having just said that I was not a believer in the Wuhan lab leak version of how the pandemic started I was advised to watch the nubile Sharri Markson’s one hour doco based on interviews for her book “What Really Happened in Wuhan?”

    Well, it’s nice to hear that you get your knowledge of controversial events in the world from Rupert Murdoch’s television documentaries and the books written by his “nubile” TV “journalists.”

    Since you’re so focused on Australian sources, I assume you’re aware that the only direct Western eyewitness to the events was a respected Australian virologist, Danielle Anderson, who was actually working at the Wuhan lab during the entire period, and says she’s extremely skeptical that there was any sort of lab-leak or that the virus could have been developed there:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-06-27/did-covid-come-from-a-lab-scientist-at-wuhan-institute-speaks-out

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/australian-scientist-the-sole-foreign-researcher-at-the-wuhan-lab-speaks-out-20210628-p584sv.html

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  360. Mulegino1 says:
    @James Speaks

    That’s got to be the fuckingest most stupid thing I’ve read today.

    Provided you don’t read your own comments.

    Nevertheless, it happened. WTC 1 and 2 came down in a virtually identical manner, and their destruction obviously had nothing to do with office fires.

    Face it. You’re ignorant, you’re stupid, and you’ve been called out.

    Since you resort to ad hominems, I would suggest you modify your moniker to “James Speaks-Out of His Rear Orifice.”

    • LOL: InnerCynic
    • Troll: James Speaks
  361. Mulegino1 says:
    @Eric Novak

    Hydrocarbon fires are hot enough (4000F) to make steel and so are hot enough to weaken and melt steel. Consult with your high school Physics and Chemistry textbooks.

    I would suggest you consult your high school textbooks, since hydrocarbon based fires don’t burn at 4,000 F.d

    In any case, the fires did not burn long or hot enough to weaken the entire steel structure of the Twin Towers to the point where they experienced universal failure.

    As I pointed out, the Windsor Tower (24 hours) and Dubai Skyscrapers (+24 hours) burned much longer than those in the Twin Towers, yet the skyscrapers did not experience total structural failure to the point of “collapse.”

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  362. Mulegino1 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    The Windsor Tower is a false parallel to the WTC Towers. The Windsor Tower was built with steel-reinforced concrete, whereas the Twin Towers were 100% steel-framed.

    And the fires burned much, much longer than in the Twin Towers. The fire in WTC2 was diminishing to the point that the firefighter commander on the scene radioed that it could be “knocked down with two lines,” i.e., hoses.

    Unfortunately, 911truthers tend not to notice the sounds of explosions when it doesn’t seem to play their way. So any sound of an explosion at the WTC is proof of bombs, but at the Windsor Tower it’s proof of crickets.

    Alternately, 911 true believers tend not to notice the sound of explosions and the multitude of additional anomalies when it doesn’t fit their Procrustean narrative.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  363. It was not too long ago that I enjoyed Fred’s stuff as light and humorous, and wondered why so many commenters seemed to have it in for him. While his recent work is still humorous, though not perhaps in the way he intended, I no longer enjoy it and no longer wonder why he generates negative comments.

    This is a work obviously intended to generate controversy and comments, and probably I should not bother to add to the count. The other thing that I should do I intend to do: skip over any article written by this arrogant and counterproductive former “news weasel”.

    By the way, alternate theories about events happen because of inconsistencies, improbabilities, or impossibilities in the the officially propagated narrative. People with incomplete information seek to fill the void left by official lies with possible scenarios. The scenarios they come up with may not be correct because they do not have access to all the relevant information. That does not mean that there is no reason to question the official story.

    The important thing, the thing that makes us human beings with critical thinking capabilities and not pure pawns of the government, is our ability to discern those inconsistencies, improbabilities, or impossibilities if not on our own, then at least when they are pointed out to us – despite being conditioned since we were children to stay within the safety of the herd.

    Apparently in Fred’s world, you can turn on the tv or re-read your high school history text book and have the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

    • Replies: @Jack Sparrow
  364. @anon

    Bruegel’s Parable cometh to mind:
    A blind man misleading the blind.
    An unfortunate fact:
    His tongue’s still intact.
    ‘Twere otherwise, I’d be more kind.

  365. @remo

    Contrary to what the dames keep telling you, size does matter.
    The collapse of the towers was near-adiabatic i.e. after comminution
    the entire potential energy – minus phase transitions – manifests as heat.

    Back-of-the-napkin, “cold” collapse, only the (light) concrete floors:

    4000[m²] x 0.15[m] x 110(n) x 9,81(g) x 208(h) x 2000(d) =
    some 202 GJ (!)

    Size and chimney effects do offer surprises; no one believed a wood fire
    can melt basalt either – despite there being clear evidence at Hadrian´s Wall
    (ah, give up already – it´s all nukes, all the way down!) – until they tried it 1 : 1 😀

    • Replies: @remo
  366. Johan says:

    When a democracy which is thirsting for freedom has evil cupbearers presiding over the feast, and has drunk too deeply of the strong wine of freedom, then, unless her rulers are very amenable and give a plentiful draught, she calls them to account and punishes them, and says that they are cursed oligarchs. Plato – The Republic

    Their authority is a thing blind, deaf, hideous, grotesque, tragic, amusing, serious, and obscene. It is impossible for the artist to live with the People. All despots bribe. The people bribe and brutalise. Oscar Wilde

    The psychology is simple, democracy is caused by and maintained by envy, hence, they (a part of the democratic people) continuously construct sensational grotesque and obscene slanderous theories of all sorts, targeted at elites and authorities.

    This is what the elites justifiably think of the theories produced by the alternative democratic media:

    I suppose it comes from the fact that none of us can stand other people having the same faults as ourselves. I quite sympathize with the rage of the English democracy against what they call the vices of the upper orders. The masses feel that drunkenness, stupidity, and immorality should be their own special property, and that if any one of us makes an ass of himself, he is poaching on their preserves. Oscar Wilde

  367. @Mulegino1

    The Windsor Tower didn’t suffer a plane crash, so the fact that it burned longer is moot. If one was going to make any parallel and contrast with the Windsor Tower it would be WTC 7, but not the Twin Towers. WTC 7 did stay up burning a long time. But it had suffered some damage from the previous collapses, in addition to the fire, and it did not have any concrete at its base structure. So the collapse of Building 7 is still consistent with the Windsor Tower case.

    • Replies: @W
    , @Mulegino1
  368. @Wizard of Oz

    ‘Why isn’t my totally imagined version that some Israeli aligned neocons close to the President managed to make sure he never took action on the many warnings that were received from FBI, CIA – and maybe Israel – just as good as the improbable idea that Israel didn’t pass on warnings at all? And wouldn’t you have counted on Israel to be able to say “our people were certainly tracking some of the dangerous characters we knew were in the US but we were talking so frequently with FBI and CIA people about just that, that our people couldn’t imagine they had so completely failed to connect the dots or pass it on”.’

    You’ve got two hypotheses here: the suppression idea and the ‘we thought they’d realize what we were talking about’ idea.

    The first strikes me as perfectly possible; unlike many here, I’m aware that I simply don’t know enough to be able to draw more than a few definite conclusions.

    The second fails, though. The Israelis obviously knew 9/11 was going to happen. Since the targets were going to be the Twin Towers — to be hit with airliners filled with trapped passengers — they also knew the attack would be catastrophically bloody.

    But they didn’t spell it out to us? If you’re painting your house, and you’re not bothering to wash down the wall first, I may tactfully mumble something and leave it to you to catch on. If you’re changing the oil, and you’ve got the car on a steep slope and haven’t bothered to set the parking brake before you crawl under it, I will state the problem clearly. I won’t just refer to ‘safety’ in general terms and hope you catch on.

    All the more so in this case. The Israelis knew where and when the attack was going to happen — and they were confident enough that it would that they had a film crew in place.

    So to return to the analogy, it’s not just that the parking brake isn’t set; I can see the car is starting to roll.

    And yet all I do is say, ‘Umm, Bob — you sure you’ve thought of everything?’

    Uh huh.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  369. @Colin Wright

    “obviously knew”

    It isn’t really obvious exactly who knew exactly what, when. The 5 Israelis who were gathering around to document the event that morning do seem to have know distinctly more than most other parties at the time. But even with them it’s not clear if they knew definitively what was going to go down in advance. More important though is how much was known at the upper layers. Intelligence organizations have always had to deal with the problem of agents in the field gathering data and transmitting it up the line. How soon before the main event did these 5 Israelis find out whatever they may have known? How much were they able to then communicate to higher-ups in a perfunctory way? These are valid questions. But the type of argument which you’re leaning on would stand better if it was somehow known that those 5 Israelis had learned everything about what was going to happen a month in advance. Then you could expect that the relevant information would go upstairs and be once more transmitted abroad to the FBI and CIA, unless there was a willful decision by the Israeli government to hide it. But without knowing more about who knew what and when. it still leans on speculation. Plausible speculation. Better speculation than basement nukes. But still a lot of unknown variables.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  370. @Anonymouse

    “Taking over a jet plane already in the air and changing the auto pilot headings
    is not rocket science.”

    Why don’t you tell it to the experienced pilots of big passenger planes. I’m not the one.
    I was just asking the author of “it’s all documented” to enlighten the world with
    the documents that no one have ever seen, yet.
    And what’s ludicrous is to answer with a question to a question that haven’t been asked.
    A desire to make your comment longer, or a friendly request from some “colleagues” ?!
    Who cares.

  371. geokat62 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    But without knowing more about who knew what and when. it still leans on speculation. Plausible speculation. Better speculation than basement nukes. But still a lot of unknown variables.

    See comment #334 for concrete evidence contained in Shea Memorandum.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  372. W says:
    @Patrick McNally

    The Windsor Tower didn’t suffer a plane crash, so the fact that it burned longer is moot.

    Neither did WTC7

    If one was going to make any parallel and contrast with the Windsor Tower it would be WTC 7, but not the Twin Towers. WTC 7 did stay up burning a long time. But it had suffered some damage from the previous collapses, in addition to the fire, and it did not have any concrete at its base structure. So the collapse of Building 7 is still consistent with the Windsor Tower case.

    WTC didn’t simply fall, it imploded. The middle collapsed first followed by the rest of the building – fire cannot explain it.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  373. @Tom67

    I mostly agree except there is no such thing as gain of function. If that is the case then if and when such a virus were to get loose it would quickly kill everyone on the planet, especially at the speed coronaviruses mutate. This is a myth and has never been achieved. The proof being we are mostly all still alive. The gain of function myth was promoted by the perpetrators of the hoax to focus some people on China. China is surely part of the whole thing but mainly by helping to gaslight the public. They put on a show of locking down, so our media told us this is what we had to do as well. The whole welding doors was the best piece of theater ever. Gain of function I believe was also dreamt up as a cover for the vaccine damage which more and more will look like a virus mutating to become more deadly. Thus the story about variants or strains or whatever you want to call the vax damage. If such a thing as gain of function actually had been achieved then there would be no need for the kill shot.

    • Replies: @PJ London
  374. I was raised in Dallas and lived there at the time of the Kennedy assassination. I have been to the so-called “grassy knoll” many times. It is not “surrounded” by tall buildings or urban roadways. It did offer a potential sniper, via a fence, concealment from the motorcade and cameras that would have been filming the motorcade’s passing. It also offered such a sniper an elevated point of attack and ease of egress after the fact. Witnesses did come forward to report persons behind the fence who ran away after the shooting. Many witnesses have come forward to complain that their testimony on this and other matters was ignored or falsified. Others claimed they were threatened. Police officers did run toward that fence in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, believing they heard gunfire from that location. Does any of this on its own prove beyond any reasonable doubt that one or more shots were fired from the grassy knoll? No. But does the grassy knoll remain a plausible hypothesis as site of a sniper’s nest, on the basis of this and other evidence, e.g., the locations of Kennedy’s wounds and the movement of his head? Absolutely.

    One more thing: if people were observing the motorcade from all of these tall buildings that Fred thinks surround the grassy knoll, would they have been looking for snipers on the grassy knoll or trying to catch a glimpse of the president and first lady as they passed by? Did any of these potential witnesses in tall buildings see Oswald fire at the president from the Texas School Book Depository?

  375. @Eddy Minimum

    I always wonder why in the case of the towers that a scale simulation was never tried. It would be extremely expensive but would tell us once and for all is this even possible, although the part about getting an unskilled pilot to complete such a difficult maneuver and sacrifice themselves to the cause might be tricky. Then there is the very real possibility they would never actually hit the target. Darn! I ready in Victor Ostrovski’s By Way of Deception that the Mossad in Israel tried to replicate the Oswald shot under ideal conditions with snipers and it was proved impossible. This never made the news but wouldn’t put it past the Israelis to hold it as a card to keep the U.S. in line. To my knowledge everything is still there in Texas so that this replication could be tried here as well. So Fred, if you are being honest the first thing is to show if it is possible what Oswald is stated to have done.Whatever foreign government were able to show that definitively two planes could not collapse three buildings completely in their footprint better even than controlled demolition would surely be holding a winning hand. I saw a video of multiple controlled demolitions and not one of them came down as perfectly as building seven and most not as well as the two towers. I think the link was something like implode world. This begs the question is the whole controlled demolition thing really the best way to bring down a building? In the case of building 7 they brought this thing down smoother than any I have seen by simply weakening one column on one side of the building, or at least this is the official conclusion that the investigation came to.

  376. Corrupt says:
    @Anonymouse

    Great… The israeli’s paid us with our own \$\$\$. There shouldn’t be any \$\$\$ or arms given to israel until the Liberty is fully accounted for.

  377. @Wizard of Oz

    Who are you replying to with that anti-Semitisg rant about a couple of aging but still sometimes witty clever men?

    It has nothing to do with what I posted about the decisions behind the USS Liberty attack.

    I apologize — my thoughtful reply [“anti-Semitisg rant”] was intended for “Druid55” (Comment #343) who said: “I didn’t read the article. Freddy is a waste of space!”

    As for your questions…

    Is there any evidence connecting either PM Levi Eshkol or Minister of Defence Moshe Dayan to the ordering of the attack? BtW what happened to the pilot after he was arrested?

    Good questions, but not relevant to whether or not the Terrorist Theocracy of Eretz Yisrael is guilty as charged:

    “Cover-Up Alleged in Probe of USS Liberty”:
    — (https://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html)

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  378. It’s been obvious for quite some time that Fred is simply one of the enemies of White people and civilization.
    Anyone who believes ALL of these official narratives of satanic Jewish conspiracies put out by the Jewish media is either an agent of (((Leftist))) tyrants or is actually insane and totally removed from reality.
    When Fred was a police reporter he understood that the problem was low-IQ, nonWhite savages. But now he’s just another (((Leftist))) shill for the liars, cheaters, thieves and murderers.
    Wake up Fred.

  379. @Eric Novak

    I have heard arguments like this before but then a jet slamming into a building and bursting into flame is also not the same as throwing steel into a blast furnace and melting it or even close. In a blast furnace all the heat is directed at the steel. In the case of a plane crash the heat has multiple outlets to go and able to disperse in many directions with the building completely opened where the impact is to allow heat out. Not to mention all the space within the tower itself. I also think that he jet fuel would burn very quickly because there is nothing holding it there as the wings of the planes were completely sheared. So although it would certainly start a fire much of the fuel would be lost by the impact and the fires that it started would burn at lower temperatures.

    • Replies: @Eric Novak
  380. Fred Reed struck a nerve. Almost 400 comments with most saying how horrible he is and why they dont read his works – lol. But how would you know what he wrote???? Lol. I could appreciate some if they avoid personal attacks and actually factually rebut him. But I think that was the point he was trying to make. For instance 9/11. I see people trying to tell NY’rs who were there that no planes crashed into the WTC and that 1and 2 were controlled demolition when the fact is people heard and saw the planes and can remember watching the buidlings start to collapse at the points of impact and then crumple from the top (and if you saw the debris you would know it was messy and not controlled. Now #7 does indeed appear to be controlled demolition… Or it could just have been horribly constructed since other nearby buildings burned and had damage but didnt collapse.

    But I will certainly choose to rebut one thing and that is mRNA. The fact is we have no clue what the implications will be long term.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  381. @Anonymouse

    I mostly agree. But several intelligence agencies knew about the impending attack.. In fact the reason Israel cant be blamed is because US intelligence reported the chatter of a hijacking attack coming. The reality is more like simply incompetent leaders more than anything else. Bush wanted war with Iraq from the start. 9/11 gave him an excuse. Other countries in the regions interests were also served by it. Let us not forget the known fact that top Saudis were funding jihadists.

  382. R2b says:

    Shit, thats me on the left!
    I direct you to GDPR!
    Amend promptly tequila!
    Beside Roman and Juri.
    Integrity breach.
    Anyway, are you all up mainstream banana up your arse?
    I Ask cause I have no strenght reading your omnious many words.

  383. Ktulu says:

    9/11 is officially a conspiracy. Officially a bunch of Saudis met in Germany to conspire to crash aircraft into the world trade center, pentagon, and allegedly the white house which didnt pan out because allegedly that plane crashed down a mineshaft instead of meeting it’s fate at the hands of a USAF sidewinder.

    PNAC is an open conspiracy. A bunch of Zionists got together and conspired openly (and legally I will add) to do zionism in the 21st century.

    The conveniently timed pandemic wargame led by the Gates foundation was carried out to help world leaders conspire on what they would do “if” a pandemic happened. I’m sure the DIA tipping off Israel in November 2019 was only a coincidence /sarcasm.

    None of these things I have just said are disputed, and the means and motive existed for these known conspiracies to carry out the alleged conspiracies. The world trade center is gone. How exactly we got from A to B there is disputable, but we did. Fundamentally the theory that the hijackers were egged on and or aided by mossad isn’t impossible because some highly specific claim about controlled demolition doesn’t appear to hold up. Modified viruses are a thing and the modification of coronaviruses was carried out by American money under American orders in Wuhan. That is known. Schizophrenic insinuations that Dr. Fauci is the anti-christ doesn’t disprove that Covid 19 could have been intentionally released.

    This is all quite obvious of course, unless you are intentionally drawing attention toward red herrings and away from the fundamental suspicions of the occurences in question.

  384. @Jack Sparrow

    Those arguments are common sense. The floors are a vacuum-pumped blast furnace with gypsum drywall and portland cement fuel pushing temps to 4000F+.

    • LOL: GeneralRipper
  385. Ron Unz says:
    @Showmethereal

    Fred Reed struck a nerve. Almost 400 comments with most saying how horrible he is and why they dont read his works – lol. But how would you know what he wrote???? Lol. I could appreciate some if they avoid personal attacks and actually factually rebut him. But I think that was the point he was trying to make. For instance 9/11. I see people trying to tell NY’rs who were there that no planes crashed into the WTC and that 1and 2 were controlled demolition when the fact is people heard and saw the planes and can remember watching the buidlings start to collapse at the points of impact and then crumple from the top (and if you saw the debris you would know it was messy and not controlled. Now #7 does indeed appear to be controlled demolition…

    My possibly mistaken impression is that you’re a foreigner, perhaps somehow connected with China, and therefore not particularly familiar with the various issues under discussion. The problem with Fred is that he’s as totally ignorant as you seem to be, and therefore merely cracked jokes rather than providing any substantive comments. Since he provided absolutely no serious substantive arguments, it’s hardly surprising that he mostly received insults in return.

    Instead of focusing on what random commenters happen to say, you really might be much better off reading my own articles on the subject. For example, here’s my long recent summary of the 9/11 issues:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/seeking-9-11-truth-after-twenty-years/

    And here’s a link to my entire American Pravda series, conveniently available in eBook form:

    https://www.unz.com/ebook/our-american-pravda-series-ebook/

    • Thanks: Pat Kittle
  386. Sean says:
    @Maddaugh

    Fred has mathematicians and doctors in his family tree, and knows about technology. Being a mere rifleman in the Vietnam war he also knows that the high command may give orders, but executing their plan against opposing forces is always uncertain.

    I do not see any impossibilities in either Osama bin Laden’s organization doing 9/11 independently with the WTC towers having been brought down by a combination of plane impact (both planes hit the WTC tower with wings at a 45 degree angle to affect the maximum number of floors) and fire, or Israeli intelligence having used explosives (ditto variations on that theme). If Fred means that an Israeli false flag controlled demolition literally can’t have happened then he is wrong, but I think he simply sees that scenario as less than plausible.

    If 9/11 was done by Israel, then they did it because they thought they had a way of getting away with it, and so I think they would have carried it out very, very carefully; not so that anyone could subsequently be sure that it was a false flag. Those Israelis arrested for leaping around like they were in a Beasty Boys video seem very obtrusive for covert operatives on the biggest job for the highest stakes ever,

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  387. @geokat62

    I’m perfectly well familiar with that September 15, 2004, report and it does not resolve the issue which I pointed out. That report is simply a listing of the evidence that some type of surveillance of various Arabs with suspicious backwards, several of whom would eventually be involved in 911, was carried out by Israeli intelligence. That report even implies that the CIA was using the Mossad to get around the legal constraints which normally would keep the CIA from collecting intelligence on people within the domestic borders of the USA.

    But it does not have data which would allow us to conclude that the top Israeli officials knew far in advance what was about to come down. The author of the report speculates that it is possible that the Mossad knew something which it withheld that might have stopped 911. But no hard conclusions are drawn of this type are drawn within the report itself, and this makes sense. There isn’t really enough information to let us conclude that the high Israeli officials knew exactly what was about to come down and when it would hit.

    The usual thing that gets cited by people wishing to make the claim that “Israel knew” is just the smugness of the 5 Dancing Israelis as they were spotted right on the scene documenting the event. But this is not a good basis for deducing what exactly the top Israeli officials knew and when they knew it. The behavior of these 5 Israelis comes off as very similar to what used to be common among prewoke cops in the Old South when they might hear of a black criminal committing a fresh crime and chuckle “ha, ha, I knew the n!gger was going to do it, now let’s get him.” If any officer was recorded making such a statement today it would be a worldwide scandal, even though the obvious response one might make is that black crime causes a lot of cynicism among cops who have to deal with it.

    Whether or not you agree with the parallel, I can assure that these 5 Israelis would see things in this way. The types of people who would be recruited for this kind of Mossad activity would be very cynical types who regard themselves as being stuck with dealing with crude Mideastern Arabs while they have to maintain a humanistic face in front of not only the white Goy but a significant sector of Jewish liberals of a kind which populates New York. These types of Israeli agents will very likely look with glee at a bunch of New Yorkers, even Jewish ones, getting a taste of how the Israeli perceives the Arab.

    But that has no bearing on the issue of what was the top of the Israeli government receiving as information and how much did they pass on to the CIA, FBI et cetera. The report of 2004 actually carries a lot of inferences that the Mossad may have given more information to the CIA than we realize. It cites instances where the CIA seems to come up with some information inexplicably, and it suggests that the hidden source was the Mossad. But it doesn’t actually show that the Israeli government had the whole thing figured out while it refused to pass the information on. It simply floats as one tentative hypothesis.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Colin Wright
  388. Fred, at first I thought you were waxing sarcasm, or playing with words. But if your serious, set aside a few hours to sit with me over coffee, or skype, and I’ll go down your list of CTs, and give you a rational and logical reason why each one is the result of a conspiracy, and factually so. As a bonus I’ll toss in Sandy Hook, and the Boston Bombing, and you can surprise me with 2 others.
    If the US had a real DOJ we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

  389. geokat62 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    But it doesn’t actually show that the Israeli government had the whole thing figured out while it refused to pass the information on.

    True, but his Detailed Summary (see below) certainly suggests where there’s smoke there’s fire:

    Set forth below is a detailed summary of the tentative conclusions reached in this memorandum, which amply illustrate the urgent need for a public inquiry into the activities of the Israeli DEA Groups and the Israeli New Jersey Group. The inquiry must include, without limitation, the examination of members of the Israel Groups and related persons; officials of the Israeli government and certain of its agencies, including Mossad; FBI suspects, agents of the DEA, the INS and the FBI; certain local law enforcement officials; agents of the CIA (in camera to the extent required); other intelligence sources cited by the public press to the extent possible; the boxes of documents and computer hard drives (referred on page 29) seized by the FBI from the Israeli New Jersey Group; and of all other relevant documents, reports, communiqués and information.–

    [MORE]

    1. The Israeli DEA Groups were spying on the Drug Enforcement Agency and thus upon the United States. The DEA itself has concluded that they were probably engaged in organized intelligence gathering on our soil.

    2. A highly regarded American journal knowledgeable about Israeli affairs, has concluded (a) based on its own sources, that the Israeli DEA Groups were spying on radical Islamic networks suspected of links to Middle East terrorism, and (b) based on the representations of a former American intelligence official regularly briefed on these matters by law enforcement officials, that (i) at least two members of the Israeli New Jersey Group were Mossad operatives, (ii) Urban Moving, the company used by the Israeli New Jersey Group, was a front for Mossad and its operatives, and (iii) the Israeli New Jersey Group was spying on local Arabs.

    3. The intelligence sources of a substantial American television network report that the Israeli DEA Groups may have gathered information about the September 11 attacks in advance, and not shared it with the United States. One investigator said that evidence linking the Israeli DEA Groups to such intelligence gathering was classified and could not be disclosed.

    4. The Israeli DEA Groups were comprised of 125 or more Israelis operating on our soil. Their leaders and apparent associates included military commanders and experts with military backgrounds in intelligence, electronic intercepts and telecommunications.

    5. The wiretapping and intelligence expertise of members of both Israeli Groups, and the use of vans in local neighborhoods where the future hijackers were planning the attacks, and the extensive use by the hijackers of cell phones and land lines, made the Israeli Groups ideally suited to gather information regarding the hijackers’ plans.

    6. The principal operation of the Israeli DEA Groups was located in and around Hollywood, Florida, the central training and staging ground for the hijacking of North and South Tower Planes and the Pennsylvania Plane. The addresses and places of residence of the members of the Israeli DEA Groups in Hollywood itself were within hundreds of yards those of the future hijackers.

    7. The operations of both the Israeli New Jersey Group and the hijackers of the Pentagon Plane were centered in Hudson and Bergen Counties in New Jersey, within a common radius of about six miles.

    8. All five celebrating members of the Israeli New Jersey Group arrested on September 11 were aware, when the North Tower Plane struck the World Trade Center, based on their immediate reaction to the attack and the information said to be contained in their van, that the attack had been planned and carried out by Arab terrorists.

    9. After being questioned by the FBI on September 11, the leader of the Israeli New Jersey Group immediately fled the United States to Israel. His name and aliases appear, along with those of the hijackers and other FBI suspects, on the May 2002 FBI Suspect list.

    10. Israeli intelligence officials have reported that two senior officials of Mossad warned the United States in August 2001 that as many as 200 terrorists on American soil were planning an imminent large-scale attack on high visibility targets on the American mainland. One press report states that in August Mossad provided the CIA with the names of future hijackers Khaled al Mihdhar and Nawaf al Hazmi.

    11. The CIA’s explanation of how Mihdhar’s and Hazmi’s names were placed on the Watchlist through the spontaneous efforts of CIA and FBI agents is not only difficult to follow but, as the sole reason for the Watchlisting, hardly credible.

    12. Mossad’s own information appears to have come from its sources inside the United States. All of the facts and circumstances set forth in this memorandum appear to show that Mossad’s two likely sources of information were: (a) the Israeli DEA Groups, comparable in number to that of the Arab suspects and who appear to have tracked the future hijackers in their central places of operation and in other states, and (b) the Israeli New Jersey Group, operating through their Mossad front in another principal locus of operations of the future hijackers, two of whom were Mossad agents, and five of whom appeared immediately aware of the origin of the attacks on September 11.

    13. While little direct evidence supports the contention that the CIA was aware of or condoned the Israeli Groups’ tracking of Arab terrorist groups in the United States prior to September 11, the CIA’s pressing for the expulsion of members of the Israeli DEA Groups when they were detained before September 11, their failure to cooperate with the FBI, their circuitous explanation of how the above two hijackers were placed on the Watchlist, and other relevant considerations require that the issue be taken up as a part of the public inquiry into these painful events.

  390. @W

    It took 18 seconds for WTC 7 to crash down according to the seismographic readings that were made by the Lamont Doherty Cooperative Seismographic Network:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20021016213610/firehouse.com/tech/news/2002/0121_terrorist.html

    What’s ironic is that those same seismographic readouts which record 18 seconds as the collapse time for WTC 7 give the underestimations for the collapses of the Twin Towers as 10 seconds for the South and 8 seconds for the North. Jim Hoffman, a 911truther with some integrity, showed these underestimations are likely the result that the seismographs show when rubble started striking the ground even the collapses of the Towers took longer:

    https://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/freefall.html

    Hoffman shows how the actual collapse of the North Tower took from 10:28:23 to 10:28:39, about 17 seconds. The collapse of the South Tower is partly obscured by dust and smoke but the video makes clear that the drop by the first 32 floors took about 5 seconds which when extrapolated to 110 floors would give about 17 seconds again.

    So none of these buildings really just “imploded.” That’s a visual illusion from either looking at fragments of the collapse on film such as the last 7 seconds of the WTC 7 collapse or from selectively copying seismograph readings without checking them against films. It’s how 911trutherism has come to concoct conclusions.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @James Speaks
  391. @Pat Kittle

    Not relevant? If the charge is that Israel [not someone subordinate who went over the top] tried to sink USS Liberty, knowing it was a US ship, and to kill all its crew, do you believe that did not have to be authorised by either Eshkol or Dayan?

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  392. @Sean

    Sean Comments • MY COMMENTS
    11,854 Comments • 2,047,300 Words

    That’s an hugely impressive pile of gaslighting from a full-automatic defender of the Terrorist Theocracy of Eretz Yisrael, using a typically goyish online screen name.

    Hmm… could you just maybe sort of possibly be a (((hasbara troll)))?

    — (https://educate-yourself.org/cn/The-Goyim-Guide-to-Hasbara-Trolls-from-Jonathon-Blakeley22nov11.shtmlP)

    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @Sean
  393. @Ron Unz

    Thank you. I remember reading [yes reading, though it might have also been by podcast while exercising, despite your fact free jibe] about Danielle Anderson and putting her on the plus side of “no WIV leak”.

    I don’t remember learning that she was “the only direct Western eye witness to *the??* events” or that she had access to everything going on in a very large building/institution. As you would in other circumstances say, a la Mandy Rice-Davies, “well she would say that wouldn’t she”. Looking over her shoulder….?

    Anyway, I hope the information is helpful to you in making your best case for whatever your case ends up as.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  394. @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard of Oz the hasbara Jew troll:

    Your (((lawyerly))) attempt to get (((your defendant))) off the hook on a technicality is what we expect from (((your kind))).

    You’d have us goyim believing one solitary crazed Israeli pulled off the USS Liberty (((massacre))), as though the Jew air force hadn’t done repeated low-altitude over-flights prior to the (((massacre))), and the Jew navy & Jew air force had not cooperated in perpetuating the (((massacre))), and the Jew air force ground control had not ordered the hesitant pilot to continue the (((massacre))), and (((Eshkol & Dayan))) didn’t try to cover up the (((massacre))) to the best of their ability.

    Nice try, (((shyster))). I’ve noticed over the years how (((you creeps))) keep presenting new alibis for your (((Act of War))) on your BFF, the gullible American goyim.

    • Thanks: GeneralRipper
  395. @Patrick McNally

    WTC 7 imploded because a key interior column buckled. It was smooth but rather chaotic.

    WTC 1 and 2 pancaked. They did not implode.

  396. @geokat62

    My immediate reaction to the attack when I first heard about it was that it had been planned and carried out by Arab terrorists. That wasn’t hard to figure out in a few seconds. Jews are quite capable of planting bombs somewhere. But a suicide mission with planes driven into buildings will almost always be done Arabs rather than Jews, Hispanics or whoever. It’s not a big revelation that these 5 Israelis figured out that much.

    In fact, the documented pattern of their movements suggests that they knew quite a bit more than just that. It’s just not clear how much more did they know and how much pf it had they effectively transmitted up the chain of command to Israeli officials. I don’t know, and neither does the author of this report.

    Just to take a sample passage from the report:

    —–
    6. Whether and to what extent the CIA, though surely not aware of the plans of the future hijackers before the attacks, might have been aware of and condoned the Israeli Groups’ surveillance of Arab groups generally in the United States prior to September 11 is a further question that must be explored in the course of the public inquiry. The CIA’s explanation of why two future hijackers were placed on a Watchlist in August 2001, as set forth in the Commission’s Final Report, is implausible and may have been designed to conceal the Israeli warnings.
    —–

    Later the report returns to this issue:

    —–
    The CIA was prohibited by law from engaging in field intelligence operations inside the United States. They may have been reluctant to cooperate with the FBI because of the burdensome constraints of constitutional protections benefiting potential defendants. They may also have regarded the Israelis as unusually effective because of their familiarity with Arab culture and their common understanding of the Arabic language… The CIA may have been eager to protect the surveillance activities of the Israeli Groups… Any delegation on the part of the CIA of its responsibilities abroad to foreign agents in the U.S. would, of course, have been unlawful.
    —–

    It’s not clear that you have even read the document all that well from some of the things which you’ve spouted here.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @geokat62
  397. @geokat62

    Your conversation with Patrick McCall is very interesting and helpful. It sparks just one extra thought. Why would much effort be put into spying on Muslims in the US? Could it just have been related to such questions as who was financing te Second Intifada?
    Or had there been any uptick in spying activity on getting early notice that something like 9/11 was being planned?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  398. @Patrick McNally

    ‘…But even with them it’s not clear if they knew definitively what was going to go down in advance. …

    So…what are the other possible events five Israeli intelligence agents could have gathered to film — that were going to occur at just the time and place 9/11 did?

    I’m listening. List them.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  399. @Patrick McNally

    ‘…The behavior of these 5 Israelis comes off as very similar to what used to be common among prewoke cops in the Old South when they might hear of a black criminal committing a fresh crime and chuckle “ha, ha, I knew the n!gger was going to do it, now let’s get him.” …’

    Yes — but to pursue your analogy, if the prewoke cops just happen to be watching a specific liquor store at the specific time that that specific black chooses to rob it, maybe they really did know he was going to do it.

    …short of a taped and notarized confession from Netanyahu, you’re not going to get much better evidence that the Israelis knew in advance what was about to happen than what we’ve got.

  400. A lot of your assumed logic, isn’t.

  401. @Wizard of Oz

    ‘Your conversation with Patrick McCall is very interesting and helpful. It sparks just one extra thought. Why would much effort be put into spying on Muslims in the US? ‘

    Note that a great deal of that effort was put, not into spying on Muslims, but into attempting to physically penetrate US government facilities. That aspect of the whole summer still puzzles me.

    …possibly the Israelis had decided to stage a false flag and/or get al Qaeda to make the attack for them. They were open as to what the specific operation would be, and were probing to see what the possibilities were.

    We still don’t know to what extent the Israelis had compromised al Qaeda and were able to manipulate it.

  402. geokat62 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    Jews are quite capable of planting bombs somewhere. But a suicide mission with planes driven into buildings will almost always be done Arabs rather than Jews, Hispanics or whoever. It’s not a big revelation that these 5 Israelis figured out that much.

    That’s quite a revealing statement you’ve made there, Patrick McNally is it? You’re probably as Irish as your cubicle mate, Shlomo O’Sullivanowicz.

    It’s not clear that you have even read the document all that well…

    LOL. I’ve read this document enough to know where the most devastating evidence is located, three of the six Preliminary Conclusions that put paid to Israeli involvement:

    3. The Israeli Government, through its external security agency, Mossad, warned the United States in August 2001 that an impending catastrophic attack on our soil was being planned by Arab terrorist cells located in the United States. The warnings were the result of the Israeli Groups’ surveillance of the future hijackers in this country.
    4. The Mossad warnings were too vague and too late to have enabled the United States to take any action to prevent the imminent attacks at unspecified locations in the U.S., or to detain the individuals who were planning them.
    5. Why the Israeli government decided not to share with us all the critical information they had, and the extent of that information, is a subject for the public inquiry. They may have thought some sort of warning prudent in the event their surveillance activities later became a matter of public knowledge. But any energetic Israeli effort to assist the United States in preventing the attacks would not have served their strategic interest, in view of the disastrous effect those attacks were likely to have on the relationships between the United States and
    the Arab world. As a leader of the Israeli New Jersey Group said when he was arrested on the afternoon of September 11, “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems.”

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Patrick McNally
  403. @Colin Wright

    I certainly won’t pretend to make any general list of might-have-beens, but some obvious things spring to mind.

    Obviously the first question which has to be determined is whether or not they had set up cameras before the plane struck. The woman Maria who called the police said in an interview:

    http://www.thehypertexts.com/Twin%20Towers%209-11%20Five%20Dancing%20Israelis%20Mossad%20Donald%20Rump.htm

    —–
    I saw the smoke from the top, just from the top of the towers… Like a few minutes must have gone on, and all of a sudden down there I see this van park.
    —–

    Since this testimony by Maria was the pivotal thing which started the whole story it should be noted that she seems to claim that the Israelis set up filming after the attack began, but not before. Many allegations surrounding this story go beyond her testimony and assert that the 5 Israelis were all set up to roll the cameras before the plane even got there. That charge seems dubious.

    That’s not to imply that the 5 Israeli agents didn’t have any foreknowledge of what was about to occur. They almost certainly did. But the issue of did they have such foreknowledge that they were positioned with cameras knowing what was going to happen before it began is open to question, based on Maria’s testimony (which is, after all, the primary source for the Dancing Israelis story). The lawyers for the 5 Israelis did, not surprisingly, maintain that Maria’s description of them as “dancing” was inaccurate:

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/03/WTC/spies10.html

    “The five denied dancing.”

    I can readily believe that they may have been dancing over the event, but if the woman’s testimony is to be used for this point then it should be taken into account that she claims they arrived after the plane hit.

    OK, so they probably only set up the camera after the plane hit. But surely they knew something was going to happen? That’s a bit vague. Did they know that a plane was going to be crashed into the Tower? Or did they expect something like the 1993 bombing attempt? The story of these Israelis driving up after the plane hit does not allow us to deduce anything specific. They may have known that some kind of attack was going to occur that very day. Or they may have simply been expecting an attack to occur “any day now” while remaining alert. They may have known that an attack would involve flying planes into buildings. Or they may have just had a general warning that some kind of attack would happen.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  404. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Thank you. I remember reading [yes reading, though it might have also been by podcast while exercising, despite your fact free jibe] about Danielle Anderson and putting her on the plus side of “no WIV leak”.

    I don’t remember learning that she was “the only direct Western eye witness to *the??* events”

    Look, Dr. Anderson was working at the Wuhan lab during exactly the period of time when all those dishonest propagandists claim that Covid was created, the lab-leak occurred, and various Chinese scientists became infected. She says none of those things happened. Various propagandists made claims that the Wuhan lab had terrible safety standards, explaining the lab-leak. She says the safety standards were outstanding, and she recommended her lab adopt them.

    She’s the sole credible eye-witness and everything else we know is about as reliable as all those stories of Saddam’s WMDs, which came from the same sorts of sources.

    On a different matter, Alan Hart spent three decades at the BBC and ITN, including as the Chief Middle East correspondent. His 2010 book had a full chapter on the Liberty Incident, and he says Defense Minister Moshe Dayan was definitely the individual responsible for the attack.

    Incidentally, I should probably mention that in a lengthy interview around that time, Hart also said that the Israeli Mossad was definitely responsible for the 9/11 Attacks.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @WIzard of Oz
  405. MEH 0910 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Unz

    Ron Keeva Unz (born September 20, 1961) is the editor-in-chief and publisher of The Unz Review,

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  406. Ron Unz says:
    @geokat62

    LOL. I’ve read this document enough to know where the most devastating evidence is located, three of the six Preliminary Conclusions that put paid to Israeli involvement:

    Michael Collins Piper was the journalist who produced the seminal work implicating the Israeli Mossad in the JFK assassination. I just processed and added two of his later books to the HTML collection, with False Flags containing several chapters providing a lengthy discussion of the 9/11 Attacks. I’m not sure I’d agree with all of his analysis, but he conveniently provides a great deal of important material:

    https://www.unz.com/book/michael_collins_piper__false-flags/

    https://www.unz.com/book/michael_collins_piper__the-judas-goats/

    • Thanks: allergic2katz
  407. Sean says:
    @Pat Kittle

    As far as anyone can know these things, I am not the slightest bit Jewish. Israel is not much different to Rhodesia.

    [MORE]

    Except that whereas white Rhodesians were exceptionally intelligent, Israeli Ashkenazim have lower IQs.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/.premium.MAGAZINE-yoni-netanyahu-s-mistake-nearly-led-to-disaster-1.5955968
    Fatal errors, near-disaster, a lot of luck and a national hero who doesn’t quite deserve the title: To British military historian Saul David, those were the actual components of the Israeli operation to rescue the hostages from an Air France flight that was hijacked to Uganda in 1976. Jose Padilha’s “7 Days in Entebbe,” which was based on David’s 2015 book “Operation Thunderbolt: Flight 139 and the Raid on Entebbe Airport,” opens in Israeli movie theaters Thursday. In an interview with Haaretz, he seeks to set the record straight.

    “My research clearly shows that Yoni Netanyahu was not a central figure in the planning of the operation,” says David at the outset. “He joined at a later stage, after most of the key decisions were made,” he says.

    “Netanyahu’s key mistake — firing at a Ugandan soldier — nearly led to disaster.” David says Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s brother, who was killed in the operation, opened fire against the orders of Moshe “Muki” Betzer, the commander of the raiding force. “We don’t know and we’ll never know what led him to make that decision,” says David.

    The Israelis are not ten feet tall you know. I happen to believe that doing 9/11 as a false flag would be a pretty tall order for them or even the US Deep State. I think you need to have a propensity to believe in that kind of stuff to think it is the most likely scenario.

    • Replies: @Herald
  408. @Patrick McNally

    unless and until you read something like Ray McGinnis Unanswered Questions, you don’t know doo doo about poo poo… armchair speculation based on your own thinking is admirable, but OBVIOUSLY limited…

  409. @geokat62

    How is it “revealing” to simply acknowledge as a fact that Arab Muslims are more prone to accept a suicidal mission than most other groups? Are there any Japanese still taking kamikaze flights anywhere? I thought it was said reported that all the Japanese turned into soy boys? For better or worse, the whole Muslim world has for the last half-century shown a stronger willingness to accept suicidal missions. That’s a reality, and you sound like a fool for making a rant over my pointing that out.

    From looking at the way you quote passages it looks like you just selected some of the more dramatic phrases which appear in the introduction but didn’t bother to methodically read through it.

    “The public inquiry into these events must include an examination into whether the CIA may have been aware of, or promoted or condoned, the surveillance by the Israeli Groups of suspect Arab groups in the U.S.”

    The author of this report casts deliberate doubt on the claim that the CIA “actively promoted their expulsion” as a story of October 2, 2002, had claimed. But you don’t seem to bother going through what the author says.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  410. @Patrick McNally

    ‘OK, so they probably only set up the camera after the plane hit. But surely they knew something was going to happen? That’s a bit vague…’

    Not exactly. There are time-stamped photos that show they there the day before — obviously to make sure they would have a view of what they knew was to happen the next day. When they were there again.

    You’re desperately trying to inject some uncertainty into what is perfectly clear.

  411. geokat62 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    Arab Muslims are more prone to accept a suicidal mission than most other groups?

    Ever heard of Masada or the Samson Option?

    But you don’t seem to bother going through what the author says.

    It seems you didn’t bother reading what Ron Unz had to say (see comment #412):

    Incidentally, I should probably mention that in a lengthy interview around that time, Hart also said that the Israeli Mossad was definitely responsible for the 9/11 Attacks.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  412. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    Hart also said that the Israeli Mossad was definitely responsible for the 9/11 Attacks

    It’s arguably tenable as a hypotheses, but hardly something that one could be certain about.

  413. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I have now explained several times when you have brought up your poorly remembered “whataboutyou” argument that I was convinced by something I merely thought plausible enough to be considered

    I don’t like to think that I falsely accused someone of something, so I did a quick check and found several comments in which you’d advocated or at least defended the theory that JFK was accidentally shot and killed by one of his own Secret Service men:

    I’ve no favourite theory though I wouldn’t be totally surprised if most of the cover up or appearance of it resulted from an accidental shot from a secret service man being the one that killed JFK.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/?showcomments#comment-4343756

    Replying to your last paragraph I suggest your assumptions and question are wrong. Suppose George Hickey died and one of the tiny handfull of people who were convinced that he had accidentally fired the fatal bullet said “now we can tell the true story” how would you go about convincing the management (or Deep State if you like) that there was any good reason to say anything. Apart from anything else it is less likely that the story would have been accepted than that another round of conspiracy theories would be launched.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-i-what-happened/?showcomments#comment-2398369

    See the documentary “JFK: The Smoking Gun” based on the theory first (I think) advanced in the book “Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK,” by Bonar Menninger.

    Shame, guilt and embarrassment are the only things that could drive the Secret Service to cover up and destroy evidence.

    Yes it has a nice Occamish flavour to it.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-i-what-happened/?showcomments#comment-2400085

    The individual who first raised the issue was a Jewish-activist obviously seeking to deflect attention from my detailed analysis that the Mossad had probably killed JFK. But I think you may have been about the only one who actually picked up the idea and ran with it. The reason the incident stuck in my mind is that I never would have imagined there was anyone in the world gullible enough to sincerely believe such a ridiculous theory.

  414. @Ron Unz

    It seems my initial comment was accurate.

    Fred is posting drivel for comment creation, nothing more and nothing less. AND it worked.

    🙂

    • Agree: Herald
  415. Sean says:

    For example, a photo of the Grassy Knoll from above showed it to be the last place in Dallas that anyone would put a sniper, being small, almost without concealment, surrounded on all sides by busy urban streets, and overlooked by tall buildings with lots of windows

    Yes. Fred having been a rifleman in a combat zone is aware of the danger of drawing return fire if conspicuous. There was a railyard control tower whose occupants had an excellent view of behind the fence, whereby getting out of there unobserved in a car or otherwise would be a huge problem. Also cops could as they did just look over the fence. A point that bears mentioning in support of Fred and against the grassy knoll is there were were many armed men in Kennedy’s motorcade, including at least one with an AR15, dedicated to protecting him. Firing over the fence from the knoll as Kennedy drove towards it or passed it would have meant a muzzle flash and distinctive noise from an obvious place in clear line of sight of the men whose job was to watch for such things, thereby risking an instant fusillade of return fire from the secret service and cops. Even with an non-obsolescent self loading rifle there would no no time for a second shot before being shot to pieces. Oswald did not take Kennedy head on as he was approaching although he had the opportunity and that would have been the easiest shot; he waited because he was afraid of return fire. No one wants to instantly DIE.

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
  416. Ruckus says:

    There is NOTHING WORSE than a military faggot who is too cowardly to think for himself.

    And Reed is perhaps the worst of this group.

  417. Ruckus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “The problem with Fred is that he’s as totally ignorant as you seem to be, and therefore merely cracked jokes rather than providing any substantive comments. Since he provided absolutely no serious substantive arguments, it’s hardly surprising that he mostly received insults in return.”

    Fred is like this at least half of the time. Why the hell do you continue to publish him, Ron? Surely you’re not that desperate for traffic.

  418. @Ron Unz

    Thanks. Obviously with my strong resistance to believing things (weeakness for multilayer skepticism) I am not about to become a a passionately indignant believer but it removes a barrier to belief . It would be on a par for ruthlessness with some of the orders Ben Gurion gave in getting rid of Palestinians in 1947/48. Still, why? And why the cover up? I guess it would have been one of those situations where you could fairly say that the PM wouldn’t have sanctioned it ay more than Abba Eban(in contrast to Yitzhak Shamir and Ben Gurion) would have countenanced the murder of JFK.

    So Moshe Dayan behaves like a mad dog though the US won’t be able to prove it and the Israeli public and American Jews will be very upset at the accusation. So, as Israel has just become America’s army dominating the ME what’s to be gained from accusing Day an?

    But still, let’s try to understand why it might have been thought vital to stop USS Liberty spying and transmitting., though that, from where we are at means why Dayan might have thought it with his willingness to take risks.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  419. @Colin Wright

    And your thesis allows for them not to know how the WTC is to be attacked. How about” Hey fellas, the boss has the word that tomorrow is going to be the WTC – again. I don’t know if he meant it but he told me I should get the boys together to film it in case they made the bomb big enough this time”?

    So that means that someone warned the boss that the WTC could be a dangerous place to be early on 9/11. I can’t see how that lets Mossad off the hook.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  420. remo says:
    @nokangaroos

    ‘After comminution’? Its ‘before comminution’ and the magic of ‘comminution’ the creatioNIST building assessment report – and your napkin – never addressed. Not that the buildings were ‘comminuted’. But how. How that entire potential energy was suddenly realised. Just call it the speed of deceit, because ‘Light’ or not; the floors were concrete. Which; at about 11 acres per second were ‘phase transitioned’ into ppm., 6% of which was molten spheroid spat into the rapidly expanding comminuted WTC.

  421. @Ron Unz

    Nice try but, before I’m out of battery I point out that you have proved how much more circumspect I am in presenting possibilities than you. And, while looking for your Israeli provocateur I found this from the Daily Mail

    https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2380691/amp/President-JFK-documentary-alleges-WAS-second-shooter-assassination--Secret-Service-agent.html?

    TBC

    • Troll: L.K
  422. derer says:
    @john cronk

    If the aim is to blame Israel, I can cook up a better story in two minutes: Diabolical Mossad agents, pretending to be Arabs, talked the hijackers into the idea of the hijackings and gave them funding. Bingo.

    Fred Reed ironically calling this a better CT. It was already pointed out, and shown on the video, that those hijacked planes entered the towers, like into butter, with intact wings and in fact destroyed those “huge steel uprights pillars”. That is actually official unbelievable theory – a highly metaphysical conspiracy.

  423. Brewer says:
    @Wokechoke

    Yes. Haven’t the time at present for a full reading but a quick once-over of Michael Collins Piper’s work that Ron kindly made available reveals that Ruby had been active in smuggling arms to the Zionists so he was definitely Moss-added.

    Ruby bragged of having run arms to Israel and,in 1963,is known to have been part of an arms smuggling operation in Texas and Louisiana (and their environs) overseen by an Israeli intelligence officer, a point brought to light by Dr. William Pepper in his book, An Act of State……Penn Jones had, on his own, made a connection between Ruby and Israeli intelligence, a point that virtually all other JFK researchers have preferred to avoid…………the means by which the Jewish-dominated Dallas elite gained control of JFK’s Dallas trip agenda is interesting—and it ties directly to no less than Jack Ruby……….the CC designated a “host committee.” The chairman was Dallas Jewish leader and public relations man, Sam Bloom,the CC’s longtime executive director who—it just so happens—attended the same Dallas synagogue as Jack Ruby.
    (And when the police searched Ruby’s home after he infamously shot the alleged assassin, Mr. Oswald, they found a slip of paper with Bloom’s name, address and telephone number on it.)

    There is lots more, particularly in chapter four:
    https://www.unz.com/book/michael_collins_piper__false-flags/
    Remarkable that few, if any writers apart from MCP have explored Ruby’s connections to Israeli Intelligence, Lansky and the Bronfmans.

    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  424. @Ron Unz

    With respect I’m afraid that it had never occurred to me that you saw yourself as in the forefront of JJK assassination pindits/theorists rather than someone catching up on a different reading list after you began to radically disbelieve the MSM. But that is what this says to me:

    “The individual who first raised the issue was a Jewish-activist obviously seeking to deflect attention from my detailed analysis that the Mossad had probably killed JFK.”

    You may care to explain what that is about but my searches have taken me to asking “Is Bonar Menninger Jewish?” since he wrote the book on which the doco “The Smoking Gun” was based. No, he was from a Kansas Christian family.

    The Daily Mail article which I linked previously says this

    “The new documentary is based on the work of Colin McLaren, a veteran Australian police detective who has undertaken a four-year investigation into the killing.

    His theories are based on the work of Howard Donahue, who spent two decades probing the assassination and whose work was presented in the book Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK, by Bonar Menninger.”

    They put all that time and effort into it, and persuaded people to finance and show it. I wonder who qualifies as the one who misjudges people and what constitutes gullibility when you say this:

    “I think you may have been about the only one who actually picked up the idea and ran with it. The reason the incident stuck in my mind is that I never would have imagined there was anyone in the world gullible enough to sincerely believe such a ridiculous theory.”

    And you can’t wriggle out of it by suggesting it might just be a cynical sensationalist piece of entertainment with which to grab a few eyes for TV screens because we are told that four yeas was put into it and, though you can choose to wave that away as hype if it suits you, there is plenty of evidence in the film that it was not got up as an El cheapo stunt.

    However…. I now believe some Secret Service people or their families would now have come clean, if only to cash in, if the theory was true. Also, it is a bit hard to reconcile the evidence that RFK retained strong suspicion that the Warren Commission had missed the truth with the fact that the George Hickey shot didn’t get a mention.

    So…. almost zero probability.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  425. Herald says:
    @Sean

    The Israelis are not ten feet tall you know. I happen to believe that doing 9/11 as a false flag would be a pretty tall order for them or even the US Deep State.

    Good thinking, it would of course have been just too difficult for the Israelis, even working hand in glove with the US Deep State. Perhaps rather surprisingly though, it was all too easy for 19 Arabs armed with box cutters.

    • Replies: @Sean
  426. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    With respect I’m afraid that it had never occurred to me that you saw yourself as in the forefront of JJK assassination pindits/theorists rather than someone catching up on a different reading list

    I certainly don’t consider myself any sort of expert on JFK/RFK, having only read something like 15 books, though including all the most important ones. But I suspect that’s 15 more books than you have read.

    You may care to explain what that is about but my searches have taken me to asking “Is Bonar Menninger Jewish?” since he wrote the book on which the doco “The Smoking Gun” was based. No, he was from a Kansas Christian family.

    Sorry for the confusion. If you check the threads I linked, the regular commenter called “Anonymous Jew” introduced the theory, which you then embraced and endorsed. I wasn’t referring to the author of the crackpot 1992 book, which was obviously intended to capitalize on the very popular Oliver Stone film.

    They put all that time and effort into it, and persuaded people to finance and show it. I wonder who qualifies as the one who misjudges people and what constitutes gullibility…And you can’t wriggle out of it by suggesting it might just be a cynical sensationalist piece of entertainment with which to grab a few eyes for TV screens because we are told that four yeas was put into it

    Well, the Mossad probably killed JFK and there’s a vast sea of Hollywood people and money desperately eager to protect Mossad. So the latter will obviously fund and produce films advocating every other possible crackpot theory pointing in a different direction to order to divert gullible conspiracy-activists away from the truth. This particular theory was so stupid that you might have been the only person in the world to fall for it, though I suppose there could also be a second person somewhere else.

    So…. almost zero probability.

    I’m glad you’ve now reassessed your appraisal.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  427. Sean says:
    @Herald

    Ron does not say the US Deep State were in on it, he says it was Israel acting to manipulate the US. You are missing my point about the difficulty. The Israelis did it, if they did, as a false flag and got away with it. That would have been orders of magnitude more difficult to accomplish than hijacking a plane with a fake bomb. You do know that it was the threat of a fake bomb the Arabs (some welding boxcutters, others able to pilot the planes) are said to have hijacked the planes with, not boxcutters?

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
  428. cestall says:

    I agree 100%. And I predicted before seeing, and later confirmed, that these comments would be all bitching and no proof. “You just don’t get it, Fred.” Somber head-shaking, superior smugness, petulant sighing….and no proof. Never proof. Insults (either soft or hard)? Check. Asking questions that have no answers (“Then how do you explain X Y and Z? You can’t, can you? Therefore; Jewish Aliens!). Of course. But never logic nor facts to prove what they believe. Watch: they’ll all en masse reply to this in the very same manner. And that’s the great thing about delusions. A person can believe without having facts with no effort. Our brains are able to function fluidly without logic, perhaps a survival trait in a world we don’t always understand.

  429. @anon

    9/11 was real. The official narrative is too full of holes to be true. That doesn’t necessarily mean any of the alternative theories is correct. As with evolution, we (well, some of us) do not accept a bad explanation just because nobody can come up with an airtight one. I once read something like that by a wise man writing of the mystery of life’s origins and history.

    I have a conspiracy hypothesis I haven’t heard elsewhere:
    How do we know that Epstein is actually dead? How do we know they didn’t kill a double and sneak the corpse in while sneaking the real creep out? Allegedly he was (or is) a billionaire. He had/has an excellent mind for money; he undoubtedly had enough hidden assets around the world to live incognito. What were the salaries of his evidently incompetent guards and camera guys? Have they bought any new houses or cars since then? Men have compromised principle for money many times. Lord knows I have (never involving murder though).

  430. Anon[307] • Disclaimer says:
    @eldorado

    No, his articles favoring vaccines were not intelligent since he failed utterly to report on all sides of the controversy. And that’s always his game: take one side and ridicule the other. He belongs in a high school study hall when the teacher is gone. He is not a serious thinker. He is a pretty good comedian.

  431. Incitatus says:
    @Mulegino1

    “The hydrocarbon based office fires could not have precipitated a universal symmetrical “collapse,” least of all one that was virtually identical in both WTC1 and 2…The likelihood that the destruction of the Twin Towers, WTC 7, and the core of WTC 6 were caused by localized, hydrocarbon based office fires is virtually zero.”

    Edifício Wilton Paes de Almeida, São Paulo Brazil; 24-storey (26 floor) highrise collapse 2018

    https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/01/residential-tower-block-collapses-huge-fire-rips-building-7511628/

    “The fire started on the fifth floor at 4.20am GMT (1.20am local time) at first hours of 2 May 2018 (late night of 1 May, May Day holiday), and the building collapsed 90 minutes later. The cause of the fire was a short-circuit in a power extension that had microwave, TV and refrigerator connected on it, on 5th floor.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edif%C3%ADcio_Wilton_Paes_de_Almeida

    Enjoy!

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
  432. It is very possible that architectural / engineering “shortcuts” were used in the construction of the two examples that you cite. Maybe “Mulegin01” should have stated: No properly designed and engineered (structure) has ever collapsed due to fire.

    Looking at the many videos on Youtube of the Twin Towers “collapsing” – one can plainly see that the buildings EXPLODED on the way down and most of the concrete was turned to dust. They did NOT “collapse.” Likewise for Building Seven.

    One can view, also on Youtube, the steel frameworks of the Twin Towers and it is also plain to see that these were very robust structures. Add to that one of the architects, ON CAMERA, stating that the buildings would have been able to withstand multiple impacts of aircraft and would still be standing.

    One final comment – you 9/11 “debunkers” have absolutely no explanation for the puddles of molten metal that were found under the piles of debris and the fact that the fire department(s) were not able to completely put out the fires FOR WEEKS.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Incitatus
  433. whatt says:

    Not a single word against Obama or Biden. Classic Fred Reed.

  434. Mulegino1 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    If commercial airliners did indeed impact the Twin Towers, this would have resulted in localized damage, not the total destruction of the buildings as ensued, as the buildings were designed to withstand multiple impacts from 707’s, roughly equivalent to 767’s.

    Notice I write if since it is quite unclear what did impact the WTC. Steel framed skyscrapers seldom swallow up commerical airliners whole, a la the fake Hezarkhani footage. The perimeter columns of the buildings were too narrowly spaced not to shred the light and ductile frame of an airliner into metallic confetti. In addition, the engine whose discovery near the crime scene was so serendipitous was not that of a Boeing 767.

    NIST was almost certainly not charged with conducting an independent and open ended investigation; in all likelihood, its mission was to validate the official establishment/media narrative- y

    All of the agencies involved in the investigation are heavily invested in the official version as presented by American MINITRUE. They have no choice.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  435. @Colin Wright

    That’s vague enough to be consistent with a lot of things. Does it mean that they really knew the date that an attack would take place? The form that it would take? It could be that it was suspected that something would take place, but without being sure what it would be or when it would occur. Is this the only place which they went to, or were they scouting out other locations and this one turned out to be the one that they went to after the attack happened because it now seemed the best location?

    All of that is separate from the even broader query of what exactly was known at the upper layers of the Israeli intelligence service. It’s possible that these 5 may have figured out something really big within just the last day or so before 911. What is more central to any conspiracy-hypothesis is the issue of top people in the Mossad knowing something and willfully refusing to pass it on to the CIA. That part is especially unclear, especially since the behavior of these 5 does not match what I’d expect from people who were under orders from the top to keep everything hushed. There would be no reason for them to visibly climb onto a building and start filming if they had been under orders to quietly gather data about the hijackers in a top-directed conspiracy to hide the information from the CIA.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  436. @geokat62

    Poor literacy on your part. You don’t seem to understand the difference between suicide-bombers and undercover terrorism. Sure, the Mossad would be quite capable of planting a bomb somewhere and then having media-supporters attribute it to “neonazis, Islamists, antisemites” or what have you. But a suicide-mission which is involves crashing planes into building while the hijackers themselves die and go to heaven is far more likely to be a Muslim operation. That’s just a fact.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  437. @Mulegino1

    In all of the models it was assumed that a 707 would be traveling at around 180mph when it hit, not like the attacks on 911. The assumption was that a jumbo-jet might get lost in the fog and have to crawl around a bit trying to find its way out, possibly hitting a Tower in the process. What happened on 911 was very different, with planes going at 470-590 mph on impact.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  438. @Anonymous

    I agree. Smug is the perfect term.

    They be Smugressives.

  439. geokat62 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    Poor literacy on your part. You don’t seem to understand the difference between suicide-bombers and undercover terrorism.

    Poor literacy on my part? You confused Masada* for the Mossad, lol!

    * “According to Josephus, the siege of Masada by Roman troops from 73 to 74 CE, at the end of the First Jewish–Roman War, ended in the mass suicide of the 960 Sicarii rebels who were hiding there.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masada

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  440. Sean says:

    For example, a photo of the Grassy Knoll from above showed it to be the last place in Dallas that anyone would put a sniper, being small, almost without concealment, surrounded on all sides by busy urban streets, and overlooked by tall buildings with lots of windows.

    A woman in a tall building overlooking the dancing Israelis reported them. They were arrested by ordinary police. This is a team of secret agents?

    • LOL: Johnny Rico
  441. @Gordon K. Shumway

    Personally, I find it hard to believe Douglas Adams died at a health club.

  442. L.K says:
    @Brad Anbro

    InZionistatus is a well known Neocon/Zionist activist who hangs around this website.

    He’s been comparing the Wilton Paes de Almeida building collapse with the WTC buildings for a while now, not the first time.

    The buildings are so vastly different in regards to their robustness that a comparison is simply totally disingenuous. InZionistatus obviously knows this.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Incitatus
  443. L.K says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron on Fred’s “article”;

    The problem with Fred is that he’s as totally ignorant as you seem to be, and therefore merely cracked jokes rather than providing any substantive comments. Since he provided absolutely no serious substantive arguments, it’s hardly surprising that he mostly received insults in return.

    So true, Unz. So… why publish it?? It’s G-A-R-B-A-G-E.

    You could at least tell Fred that you would not publish this ridiculous screed and instead challenge the man to debate you instead, you could decide the best format.

    It would be at least mildly amusing to watch you tear Fred the Sophist apart.

    • Replies: @Ruckus
  444. @WIzard of Oz

    By “boss” I assume you mean Larry Silverstein. It’s not so automatic that Israeli agents at this level would promptly inform Silverstein of anything. It is true that Silverstein was reported to be considered as a close friend of Ariel Sharon and also had some friendly contacts with Benjamin Netanyahu. Therefore it is safe to assume that any warnings which these people received would be transmitted to Silverstein in some form or other. But that doesn’t mean every run-of-the-mill Mossad agent around the New York State area would necessarily have a special number to Silverstein. More likely is that they would have some set procedure for transmitting relevant intelligence information upstairs where it would reach higher officials who would then be in a position to communicate with Silverstein if this was judged necessary.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  445. @geokat62

    No, I was not confused. The events of 73 CE are irrelevant. In WWII the Japanese practiced kamikaze attacks. Now everyone talks about the soy in the Japanese water. Jews in the last 75 years have shown no indication of carrying out suicidal attacks such as 911 involved. Arabs in the last 50 years have shown a great willingness to do what Japanese would have done in 1941.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  446. Sparkon says:
    @L.K

    Yes. Thank you. You are quite right!

    The Wilton Paes de Almeria building that collapsed in São Paulo, Brazil, had what is called a curtain wall construction, i.e. the exterior facade had no supporting structure, and played no role in support of the building, a type of high-rise construction that was completely different from WTC 7, which had a conventional steel-framed construction, which is not only very strong, but also very fire resistant, as the steel frame acts as a giant radiator to move heat away from the fire toward the rest of the building according to the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

    Please also see my previous discussion with Incitatus on this point:

    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-role-in-9-11/?showcomments#comment-3250849

    So its a classic apples and oranges comparison between dissimilar things to prove a point lie, and just another load of horsefeathers from Incitatus.

    Please see my comment 50, above, on this point.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  447. @James Speaks

    Look in the mirror Mr. Speaks.

    AE9/11truth has published an extensive detailed analysis of the WTC7 collapse and definitely prove it did not collapse by fire. Any 4th grader could have told us as much, but in today’s world it takes a mountain of paperwork to prove the obvious. Maybe you should read that publicly available report and argue against the detailed engineering analyses in it.

    Also, search out on the web what a real uncontrolled fire in a high rise looks like…there have been plenty. The fires in WTC7 were small, cold, and hardly structural damaging.

    The conspiracy theorists are the smart ones, because they find the evidence. Others can prove it as necessary.

  448. geokat62 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    The events of 73 CE are irrelevant.

    Sure they are. What do Purim, Hanukkah, the Passover celebrate, again? And when did these events take place?

    Jews in the last 75 years have shown no indication of carrying out suicidal attacks such as 911 involved.

    Are you familiar with the Samson option? Here’s a clue:

    The name is a reference to the biblical Israelite judge Samson who pushed apart the pillars of a Philistine temple, bringing down the roof and killing himself and thousands of Philistines who had captured him, crying out “Let me die with the Philistines!” (Judges 16:30).

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

    Although it has ancient origins, the story of Samson still influences the thinking of today’s Jewish leadership, hence the designation for this modern day military strategy.

  449. Ruckus says:
    @L.K

    This is exactly what I said in my comment:

    https://www.unz.com/freed/i-say-it-was-poltergeists/#comment-4914994

    “’The problem with Fred is that he’s as totally ignorant as you seem to be, and therefore merely cracked jokes rather than providing any substantive comments. Since he provided absolutely no serious substantive arguments, it’s hardly surprising that he mostly received insults in return.’

    Fred is like this at least half of the time. Why the hell do you continue to publish him, Ron? Surely you’re not that desperate for traffic.”

    I further reflected on this after commenting, and I suspect Ronsperger may want a bug-out place in Mexico in Fred’s hood should things go south here. Since he seems to love the Mexican people so much, he’s willing to cocksuck Fred and his crappy farticles regardless to the reputational damage it does to his own site.

  450. Most of Reed’s facile put downs have already been answered, not just by CTs, but, also by professional organizations of engineers, architects and physicists.
    What does this say about Fred Reed? Perhaps he’s supplementing his income with some government money; perhaps, he’s been smoking too much local cannabis in ole Mexico. For sure he’s sounding silly.

    • Replies: @Ruckus
    , @Johnny Rico
  451. @geokat62

    All of that is irrelevant about who would be likely to carry out a hijacking with the aim of making a suicidal crash into a building. The Samson Option is similar to Mutually Assured Destruction from the Cold War. It’s totally different. There were plenty of Cold Warriors who gleefully talked about maintaining a nuclear arsenal for MAD but who would never themselves have gone a deliberate suicide mission.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @geokat62
  452. Ruckus says:
    @Alternate History

    What does it say about Ron Unz publishing him?

    • Replies: @RobbnHawk
  453. Remo361 says:

    Fred is getting stupider with age. As crazy as a building coming down due to thermite charges (which is what happened) to assume that because this is difficult to pull off that a plane near the top would cause the entire structure to collapse at free fall speed is just plain stupid. Physics matters for goodness sakes and all that melting steel reported on by hundreds of eye witnesses didn’t melt because of kerosene. What other conspiracy theories might Fred ignore?

    How about how hundreds of thousands of Haitians magically appeared in Mexico right near the border. If anyone mentions that Jewish NGO’s are paying for this Fred will scoff, despite them publicly advertising this. It’s much more likely that 100,000 Haitians just walked on water across the Caribbean right up next to the Mexican border organically, and without any assistance whatsoever. To assume otherwise is badthink.

    • Replies: @Jack Sparrow
  454. @Patrick McNally

    No, by boss I meant their removals business boss.

    I have speculated separately about Israel/Mossad taking the risk of alerting Silverstein. What you say about him confirms that speculation. It would be significant that Silverstein didn’t reinsure WTC 7 or, as far as I know, add terrorism cover. To me WTC7 looms ever larger as proof that there was no controlled demolition plan .

    Another detail that some of those who theorise on a broad canvas miss is that the amount of asbestos in the WTC buildings was quite limited. Apparently they were being built as awareness of the asbestos problem rose.

  455. @Gordon K. Shumway

    I like it. Give it to one of those wet-behind-the-ears journalism graduates we hire cheap ad see if he’s hot the makings of a tabloid investigator in him. PS In’t George the one we hired because he knew how to hack cell phones?

    And when that leads to 50 important books that Ron Unz can read we’ll get it up on Unz Review.

  456. @Alternate History

    Maybe a little silly to you and some others. Sure. But certainly nowhere near as dumb as your ad hominem about weed.

    • Agree: Sean
  457. @Patrick McNally

    ‘That’s vague enough to be consistent with a lot of things. Does it mean that they really knew the date that an attack would take place? The form that it would take? It could be that it was suspected that something would take place, but without being sure what it would be or when it would occur. Is this the only place which they went to, or were they scouting out other locations and this one turned out to be the one that they went to after the attack happened because it now seemed the best location?

    All of that is separate from the even broader query of what exactly was known at the upper layers of the Israeli intelligence service…’

    You’re desperately trying to inject some uncertainty into what is perfectly clear.

  458. @Ron Unz

    Your best point is your explaining why Jewish Hollywood might have been particularly keen on the story, though I would want to assess just how concerned American Jews might have then been about theories about Mossad killing JFK .

    I am surprised that, back in innocent youth, you, as a Californian, hadn’t got on to the Jewish control of MSM and Hollywood messages that has been such a feature of your 21st century Weltanschaung. I excuse myself for lagging behind your enlightenment because I live in a country which cannot, on balance, be said not to have benefited from its Jewish population in pretty well every period. In matters of media control I contrast such incidents as the sacking of a columnist (not Australia based and able to fight)by our once broadsheet good thinking Melbourne paper for having told the truth about young Israelis behaving piggishly in Bhutan, and my having a conversation with the Federal Treasurer in which I filled his pause with “our Jewish friends” and he concurred with the fact that a former Labor State Premier and Foreign Minister can be, like some Labor Senators, advocates for the Palestinian cause.

    [Now how’s this for evidence of my living in a low threat environment for decades, with all its pop-psych implications? At 9.15 my room shook and I looked out the windows to see if there was some explanatory phenomenon. I decided to search for “Melbourne earthquake” but, two hours later I had to becreminded of what I had felt . I think this will give you a picture of the devastation threatened by earthquakes in our part of the world. How much more exciting California is.

    Melbourne and regional Victoria rocked by ‘earthquake’ https://mol.im/a/10015085 via http://dailym.ai/android ]

    Now I am willing to say that the Israel Lobby gas been vastly damaging to Americans’ security and economic welfare for at least 30 years. Reading UR and(before that) The American Conservative has helped. BTW how do you like my summation that Israel has been America’s big problem and therefore, with ethnic solidarity/tribalism a given the key disasters were WW1, the Wall Street crash of 1929, and (bugger:I can’t find my original version before I added the Wall Street crash, so let’s say) the Holocaust?

    It is I suppose linguistically and logically tenable to brand the initial interest in an as yet unfalsified theory as” gullible”
    But I suspect that its a rhetorical diversion left over from your debating days. What I really challenge you to justify is your view that the George Hickey accident theory was obviously, even to one who had not read 500 books, “ridiculous”.

    As I have indicated my Occammish tendencies, intellectual and psychological, tend to make me look for possible explanations which do not involve great evil or inordinate numbers of people to be kept silent, and, despite your tendency to believe Mossad capable of unlimited evil risk taking, I think that is a useful corrective to your passion.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Ron Unz
  459. @Andreas

    Unless, of course, one falls victim to the one damning fallacy on which they all ultimately stand and that is an appeal to authority.

    According to Boethius, appeal to authority is the weakest kind of comment.

  460. @Wizard of Oz

    For “the Holocaust” maybe I should have said “the bribing of Truman to help him beat Dewey”.

  461. @Colin Wright

    “Perfectly clear”. Maybe. But, assuming it is clear that some Mossad connections were tipped off that they should keep away from the WTC with dark mention of 1993 it certainly doesn’t support the view that there were demolitions even though the 5 dancing Israelis may have assumed that another bomb was most likely.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  462. @follyofwar

    Fred is in the (((payroll))).
    Has to be; he lies floridly and with psychotic calm.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  463. @Ron Unz

    As I said – he obviously touched a nerve. It was pretty obvious to me his writing was meant to be a mockery. Not even sure why that is an argument. He was making a mockery of conspiracy theorists. I think his point was that they take themselves too seriously. The comment section on this is a perfect example. After reading what he wrote I expected maybe 10 comments… It has hundreds.

    And yeah I read your 9/11 article before.

    • Troll: GeneralRipper
  464. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I am surprised that, back in innocent youth, you, as a Californian, hadn’t got on to the Jewish control of MSM and Hollywood messages that has been such a feature of your 21st century Weltanschaung.

    Well, I’d always had the impression that Hollywood was overwhelmingly Jewish, though I didn’t give it much thought at the time. The MSM also seemed very heavily Jewish, though much less so until the last 20-30 years.

    Since I never had a great deal of interest in most 20th century history, especially that of the US, I just naturally assumed the accounts provided in my standard history books were roughly accurate.

    Meanwhile, on racial issues none of my views have much changed since the age of nine or ten. On the other hand, it took me until college to figure out what was really going on in the Middle East as I explained in the opening paragraph of one of my articles:

    About a decade ago, I happened to be talking with an eminent academic scholar who had become known for his sharp criticism of Israeli policies in the Middle East and America’s strong support for them. I mentioned that I myself had come to very similar conclusions some time before, and he asked when that had happened. I told him it had been in 1982, and I think he found my answer quite surprising. I got the sense that date was decades earlier than would have been given by almost anyone else he knew.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-oddities-of-the-jewish-religion/

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  465. Ron Unz says:
    @WIzard of Oz

    But still, let’s try to understand why it might have been thought vital to stop USS Liberty spying and transmitting., though that, from where we are at means why Dayan might have thought it with his willingness to take risks.

    All these issues have been known and debated for at least thirty or forty years. It’s difficult to believe that you’re so lazy you’re just casually asking these sorts of questions without bothering to read a single book or even an article on the subject.

    My guess is that a typical non-fiction book contains 50x to 100x more substantive content than a one-hour television show.

    I wonder how many serious non-fiction books you have read in the last twenty years? Ten? Five? None?

  466. Incitatus says:
    @Brad Anbro

    Mulegino1’s assertion “hydrocarbon based office fires could not have precipitated a universal symmetrical collapse” and the usual UR ”free fall on footprint is proof of demo” is nonsense. View video of the collapse of 24-story Edifício Wilton Paes de Almeida 2 May 2018 (fire fueled by furniture). Don’t believe me. Believe your own eyes.

    “Looking at the many videos on Youtube of the Twin Towers “collapsing” – one can plainly see that the buildings EXPLODED on the way down”

    Explosions yes! Structural failure means explosion of connections (structural cage exterior columns fabricated in two story segments. It’s not necessarily demolition: it’s failure of lateral support connections – concrete floor slabs on metal deck supported by light-weight steel joists – probably failed first (stripped of fire-proofing after aircraft impact, subjected to plastic limit temperatures). With interior truss/slab failure, lateral support of exterior columns failed, and ‘explosion’ of perimeter mechanical multi-story connections (bolts/rivets/welds) would reasonably be expected.

    Sorry.

    “One final comment – you 9/11 “debunkers” have absolutely no explanation for the puddles of molten metal that were found under the piles of debris and the fact that the fire department(s) were not able to completely put out the fires FOR WEEKS.”

    I’m no ‘debunker’. Have professional degrees, licenses (NY, CA and four other states), board certification and fifty years of practice (including familiarity with/clients in the Towers).

    I’d just like proof of residual molten residue. Temperature, quantity, location. Kindly prove all. Legitimate sources please (don’t bother with mini-nuke Iris).

    Best regards to ‘bella Itallia’ L.K (half kraut, half dago). Here’s what Clubfoot Joe Göbbels had to say:

    “The hundreds of thousands of foreign workers now employed in the Reich are a headache. The danger exists that intercourse between these workers and German women will cause gradual deterioration of our race. This danger must be checked by every possible means. But it is difficult to discuss such a question in public because the peoples and nations affected immediately take offense. For example, the Italians fight tooth-and-nail against being regarded as racially inferior to, or even different from, ourselves.”
    – Joseph Göbbels Tagebücher 15 Feb 1942 [Göbbels ‘The Göbbels Diaries 1942-1943’ Lochner Ed. 1948 p.88]

    Trust L.K to be the proud vocal embodiment of racial inferiority contributing to German failure!

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  467. @James Speaks

    Firefighters who climbed to the point of impact said the fires had burned themselves out.

    And how did naturally aspirated kerosene combustion LIQUIFY structural steel?

    Then there is the matter of pre-impact explosions that registered at seismic observatories far and wide…

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  468. Incitatus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “I wonder how many serious non-fiction books you have read in the last twenty years? Ten? Five? None?”

    Well, of course, we have this from you:

    “I originally read Mein Kampf decades ago back in high school, and little of it stuck in my mind. But out of curiosity, I decided to reread it again some months ago, and found it filled with all sorts of interesting ideas and strategies,”

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-understanding-world-war-ii/?showcomments#comments

    Presumably this includes “interesting ideas and strategies” like:

    “Was there any shady undertaking, any form of foulness, especially in cultural life, in which at least one Jew did not participate? On putting the probing knife carefully to that kind of abscess one immediately discovered, like a maggot in a putrescent body, a little Jew who was often blinded by the sudden light.”

    “Was there any excrement, any shamelessness in any form, above all in cultural life, in which at least one Jew would not have been involved? As soon as one even carefully cut into such an abscess, one found, like maggots in a decaying body, often blinded by the sudden light, a kike.”

    -Adolf Hitler ‘Mein Kampf’ 1925 Volume 1 Chapter 2

    So much for non-fiction dick measuring. Comprehension is obviously non-topic.

  469. @Ron Unz

    I am well aware of so many suggested motives that you may or not remember from your copious consumption of books you rarely credit with much quality that I omitted a boring recital and merely pointed to the obvious fact that focus on *Dayan’s* motives – or his being mad dog reckless – was where the focus now needed to be. I might even ask whether you had so fogged up you mind with jalf remembered detail that you had not seen the importance of focussing on Dayan.

    Wasn’t the covering up a massacre in or near Gaza one alleged motive? Not learning about the attack on the Golan Heights another? And preventing the US tipping off the Egyptians?

  470. @Colin Wright

    It’s not at all perfectly clear what to make of it. I would say that you’re desperately trying to work off of a report that time-stamped photos supposedly show that they were there a day before as proof that they really knew what was going to come down on the morning of September 11. It proves nothing so specific.

    While it’s safe to say that some general knowledge of a coming terrorist strike was held, it remains an open question how specific such knowledge was. Everything that is confirmed knowledge would be compatible with such Israeli agents on the spot still not knowing either the exact day of a likely attack or even the exact form (e.g. hijacked plane crashes, planted bombs a la 1993, a potential hostage crisis, something else). If these Israeli agents had in fact known exactly what was going to occur and were aware of a policy by their own government to withhold such specific knowledge from the FBI, CIA et al then it seems more likely that they would have avoided placing themselves out in the open the way they did. Their actions certainly don’t match the traditional view of sneaky clever Mossad agents. They seem more like an Israeli version of the Keystone Cops.

    Is it possible that Jewish arrogance has really grown so great that even Israelis who are knowingly part of a plan to withhold complete comprehensive pre-knowledge of 911 would simply climb up on a rooftop and behave in a way which attracts attention? I suppose that’s worth considering as a possibility. But the more simple explanation would be that they hadn’t known anything too absolutely specific about 911 in advance, therefore saw no reason why they should wish to hide themselves once the event had occurred, and only got on that rooftop after the planes hit and started to film things the same way that many people filmed stuff after the 1st plane crash.

    Any visit which they may have made to the same locale a day before would then be accounted for as just part of general surveillance. Was this the only spot which they had visited the day before? Probably not, although that would require a detailed run-down on all of their movements of the previous day to be able to say.

  471. @Wizard of Oz

    To be fair, I’ve never seen CW advocate for the “controlled demolition” thesis on this board so that doesn’t seem pertinent in his case.

  472. @Ron Unz

    Thanks. I had forgotten how stimulating I found your 2018
    article, and quite amused at Tryon 2’s objections to your style of presentation which I took at face value as your attempt not to ram opinions down peopl’s throats or overpersuade. Naive perhaps? Maybe you are that legendary monster the self-hating Jew and cunningly trying to conceal it.

    I’m not sure I grasped the connection of the passage quoted with its dating your enlightenment to 1982 to the lengthy later discussion of what you got, many years later, from the Israeli professor’s books. Maybe I’ll return to puzzling that out. However, on a genial note I think it interesting that 1982 is the same year that Alan Sabrovsky was told by an Israeli lobbyist that the post-Suez campaign to obtain control of Congress on Israel related issues was now successfully completed. I wonder how that was reflected in completely different reactions to Ariel Sharon’s barbarities in Congress compared with yours.

  473. @nokangaroos

    It seems you are one of the few who gets the point of the article. As much as Fred Reed rails agaist the folly of he US gov – I seriously doubt he believes everything he gov or media says. His point simply appears that conspiracy theorists wil believe alternate theories about a subject even if hey are diamterically opposed. He was obviously trying to provoke and they took the bait.

  474. @Zachary Smith

    Allowed to happen s the correct word. The intelligence was out there in multiple countries!! It was simple incompetemce. Some of it is also arrogance. They look at Al Qaeda as sand n—-s so it is beyond their reasoning to understand filthy rich Gulf Arabs could fund an operation s such. The leader only admitted hey spent pretty much a decade after the 1993 bombing to come up with another way. They cant understand that in addition to training camps in desolate places – the leaders of these organizations are full of highly educated people such as engineers and chemists. These are not disgruntled guys sitting in a gambling shop.
    And yes they of course get intlligence help from several countries. It is known. Hate him as much as they want Michael Moore is closest to the truth. Did Israeli intelligence know and not stop it? Very possible. But the act is they gave a warning too. The feds had to admit it.

  475. @Ron Unz

    I was contemplating a think piece to help you with your problem of making best use of modern media when I got diverted. The first diversion was the sudden discovery that one of my damaged eyes seemed to be recovering so I may well get back to reading books on paper with fixed font size**.

    The other diversion was this that I am afraid I haven’t been able to find in book form.

    Watch “15 Unfinished Buildings in Kunming Were Demolished by Blasting. 1 Leaning Like the Tower of Pizza” on YouTube

    Those devilishly clever Chinese have managed all those “controlled demolitions” to completely avoid embarrassing phenomena which might have reminded people of what truthers say about 9/1. No explosions at the levels wherethe planes hit – only near the base. Absolutely no falling into their own footprints.

    **I think the last books on paper I read and enjoyed so much that I remembered them and wrote about them were Catherine Nixey’s ‘The Darkening Age”, Michelle Alexander’s “The New Jim Crow” and Nancy Isenberg’s “White Trash – The 400year Untold Story of Class in America”. All new for a 1980s Harvard graduate and great reads.

    I could read them, as I read nearly everything at the moment (even if I have to photograph cooking instructions on food packets and blow up the photograph) on my phone which I am so enthusiastic about that I should get a gig advertising it. It is the Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 2 [or 3 now] which opens out, optionally, like a small tablet and makes a Kindle redundant. You wouldn’t regret buying one unless it made it too easy to continue lying in bed in the morning while being productive (if commenting on UR counts).

  476. @Incitatus

    “Incititas” – first of all, I do not hide behind an alias in my postings. I use my real name. I am not going to attempt to argue with you about anything because a person cannot get anywhere by arguing. Like the saying goes (thanks to Stanton Friedman), “Don’t bother me with the facts; my mind’s made up!”

    There are pictures of molten metal flowing from steel structural material that was taken from the debris piles at ground zero. Also, numerous first responders saying, on camera, that they heard multiple explosions. This also came from a city of New York employee, on camera, who was hospitalized and subsequently died.

    You would do well to read some of the books that have been written by David Ray Griffin, Ph.D. He has done a lot of research into the various “anomalies” of the events of that day.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  477. Mulegino1 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    What happened on 911 was very different, with planes going at 470-590 mph on impact.

    So claims the NTSB, but the engines of a commercial 767 cannot generate sufficient thrust to maintain such an air speed so close to sea level.

    Besides, professional airline pilots with time in type were unable-or extremely hard pressed after multiple attempts- to duplicate such feats of aviation in a professional simulator. The possibility of amateur pilots doing the same thing on the first attempt is nil.

    In any case, an airliner impacting a steel framed skyscraper cannot escape the consequences of the third law of motion.

  478. @pythagoras

    Just so you know the pile of rubble goes down at least 6 floors… And no in real life I can tell you it was above sidewalk level.

  479. @Alfa158

    Number 7 had not only CIA but DOD and Secret Service as well. There is a video also i have to search for (if you reply you an remind me to look it up amd post) where a man was filming in front of 7 when 2 collapsed. There was an agitated ATF agent who anted nothing to do with the camera man. He was openly hostile – rather than helpful like most law enforcement. He went into 7 and encountered unusually calm Secret Service – with several figures shrouded in the background walking calmly. So i believe 7 might have been taken down to cover things up…. But that doesnt mean your whole theory is correct. It would seem more the case of “never let a crisis go to waste”. Ramsey the engineer who tried to take down the towers in 93 with a truck bomb told the feds outright if he had more time and money he would have found another way. Obviously the implication being that his friends would try again. Any government agency choosing to station there knew it would be a security risk.

  480. @Remo361

    Evidently Fred has not noticed that much of what appears on the news lately as fact was only recently the stuff of wild conspiracy theories.

  481. @gotmituns

    You wouldnt have to melt the steel… Just stress it enough to weaken…

  482. Fred Reed tries to sound smart with his tongue-in-cheek column. Yet he forgets that he is a journalist in the first place, not a figure of worldly entertainment. He can’t get around the topple of the third tower just like that and not give at least a “funny” explanation of how it happened. I think he finally found his niche … The circus !! Fred Reed is a clown !! A sad Jewish Zionist clown … Thanks for everything Fred, but you don’t make us laugh anymore.

  483. @Ron Unz

    I have one 9/11 question for you. Please no conniptions again when you realise you can’t answer it.

    Any secret plan carries two types of risks. One, that it will fail. Two, that it will be exposed afterwards.

    Al Qaeda would only care about it failing.

    A state actor would mostly care about it being exposed afterwards. They could have another crack at it if the first one failed, but exposure afterwards would be catastrophic.

    Which of these two opposites does 9/11 fit?

    The aim of both imagined perpetrators would be to conduct something spectacular.

    Al Qaeda would want as many simultaneous highjackings as possible. Their limit would be the number of trusted fanatics they could get into the US. The more moving parts of this type, the more likely at least one of them would pull off something spectacular and achieve Al Qaeda’s aim as long as it was simultaneous. Each additional cell barely adds to the risk of getting caught, but massively increases the chances of something going right.

    A state actor would want one single well-planned effort of one type. This would minimise the breadcrumb trail afterwards. If something went wrong and the plan failed, they would be able to plan for another day. They would certainly not want to rely on multiple different organisations, technologies and methods as each additional part massively increases the chance of getting caught. Their worst scenario would be to both succeed and be proven and exposed afterwards. The more moving parts and the greater their diversity, the much bigger risk of this catastrophic scenario coming to pass. They would want anything but that, certainly including plan failure, even if that got them exposed.

    9/11, as it happened, perfectly fits the incentive structure for Al Qaeda and is the perfect opposite of how a state actor would be incentivised to achieve their aims. Interesting?

    20 years and you’ve never thought about this? Odd. You know banning or lowering the comments to 1 a day for people who disagree with you so intelligently tells me that you know, deep down, that you’ve turned into Don Quixote. Egotists are always prone to measuring themselves by the level of the supposed evil they are fighting, rather than the only true north: the light and guidance of their own heart. How does it feel to be constantly tying yourself up in such hate?

    • LOL: L.K
  484. I normally look forward to and thoroughly enjoy Fred Reed’s comments. However, this may not have been written by Fred Reed. He may have stepped on somebody’s toes once too often, and this is his double. If not, don’t do another one like this, Fred. That wasn’t entertaining at all or even well thought out. That was just plain stupid. Let’s take 9/11 for example. You’re not trying if you don’t have some questions with the official narrative. There’s a video, probably still on YouTube, where “Lucky” Larry Silverstein describes how in the afternoon he received a call from the Fire Chief asking what to do about Building 7. Larry says it was such a tragic loss of life, maybe the best thing to do is “pull it,” which is the term for demolition. And that’s what they did, and they watched the building come down. Larry didn’t seem to realize that he just proved Building 7 was a controlled demolition. Who told Larry they could pull it? We’d need to talk to that person. You can’t wire a building the size of Building 7 in a week, much less a day, what with the office fires going. That means – listen carefully Fred, or whoever you are – that Building 7 must have already been wired for demolition. But that’s illegal. That violates the building codes. You can’t have explosives in a building where people work. That’s also what’s wrong with Fred suggestion that they build buildings with the explosives already in them. No they don’t build them that way. It’d be illegal. So rethink this, Fred. You get a D– for this article. Have you taken the suicide jab, Fred? It causes all kinds of problems, mental ones included. I guess even Babe Ruth struck out now and then.

  485. @Triteleia Laxa

    Gak. That’s pretty mindless. It also perfectly fits the “incentive structure” of the those who would like “a new Pearl Harbor,” which would cause Americans to hate Moslems and attack a bunch of Moslem countries, and convince Americans to triple their “Defense” expenditures, destroying America in the process. It also fits the incentive structure of those who would like to set up a surveillance state with a new law and a new security bureaucracy. It also fits the incentive structure of those who knowing the World Trade Center was old, filled with asbestos, and on the verge of being condemned by the city of New York, and would cost a billion dollars to clean up. Much better to bring it down and collect the insurance instead.

  486. @Tom Welsh

    Actually it had a whole lot to do ith China. FDR – like Teddy Roosevelt before him was upportive of Japanese expansion because they wanted Japan to westernize Asia. But Madame Soong and TV Soong had great influence over FDR because they were supposed Christians and planned to Christianize China and then all of Asia. That is how the US started backing the KMT in China – who eventially had to flee to Taiwan – which still survive s to this day by US interference (well the DPP is now in power because they are antagonistic to mainland China and so fit he US strategy better). The Soongs tugged at his heart string by also noting the numerous Japanese atrocities – thereby convincing him a new China under their rule would fit better with he US image. But yeah they knew Japan would get desperate for what it saw as a tab in the back and attack.

    Go look up Madame Soong and pics of her with US and UK leaders. Her family had a huge mansion in the Riverdale section of The Bronx where they hob knobbed with US business and political titans

  487. @Levtraro

    Therein lies the problems. Westerners are ignorant of the fact that many educated and filthy rich Arabs Nd other Muslims dont like the west interference in their region and support the jihadists. Plenty of those guys have advanced degrees. Many obtained them in western universities. They get almost endless funding too. They also do get intelligence help from some who pretend to be US friends.

  488. @I say it was the people who did it

    The gospels were written in Greek for the same reason English is used by non native English speakers. At “home” they dont use English. Both Greek and English spread through colonization

    • Replies: @Brewer
  489. @James Speaks

    ” I have seen nothing to suggest that anything but fires started by the jets precipitated steel yielding, then structural collapse.”

    Indeed… I have seen large campfires/small bonfires warp steel… You don’t need to melt steel at all to get it to fatigue and fail. That is the whole reason they put fireproofing insulation around the steel in skyscrapers. Not sure why it’s so hard for people to understand.

  490. @Triteleia Laxa

    That was good, up to a point. It entirely leaves open Israel/Mossad/highly placed neocons letting it happen though it could have been stopped or quietly facilitating the hijackings.

  491. @niceland

    Ummm – you have it backwards. The “Saddam has WMD’s” was an obvious government conspiracy theory. It wasn’t believable – especially since the Bush admin had stated prior to 9/11 that the US held Saddam in check and he had no ability to do anything. The UN agency said he had no weapons. So you have it in reverse. The US gov created that conspiracy theory. They create plenty actually. There is a whole sector of the “intelligence agencies” devoted to “psyops”. They make them up because they know conspiracy theories work. People don’t want to believe what is right in there face. Anyone with any sense knew Saddam couldn’t have any WMD’s. The ones he had were ones the US allowed him to use against Iran – were destroyed after the first Gulf War. It actually ended up poisoning many US soldiers.

  492. @Patrick McNally

    “But the 911 Commission Report debunked all of this and made it clear that any Arab role in 911 was Saudi and Kuwaiti, but not Iraqi.”

    True – no Iraqi involvement – but people in Egypt – Qatar – UAE – Pakistan all were involved. I’m not saying the governments per se – but certainly influential and wealthy people. But yeah they (jihadis) all hated Saddam – which shows how dumb Bush’s teams fake theories sounded. It’s crazy they could use that when the jihadis who worked with the US in Afghanistan turned against the US for getting involved in the Iraq/Kuwait/Saudi Arabia issue – because they saw that as interfering in Arab business. Bin Laden himself turned against the Saudi government because HE wanted to help lead the fight against Saddam – rather than letting the western infidels into Muslim holy land. But many people in the US sadly have no clue about geopolitics and what goes on in other parts of the world.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  493. @Zorton the Cruel

    Nothing LIQUIFIED the steel You don’t understand the mode of failure but you obvious have a PhD in bullshit from 9/11 university.

    What I have done, that you haven’t and are incapable from observing rationally, is broken RC beams, bent columns, tested soils, concrete and steel to failure, and understood WTF I was looking at.

    You however, have read and studied paranoid ramblings from other idiots.

    • Replies: @Zorton the Cruel
    , @EuroNat
  494. Brewer says:
    @Showmethereal

    The “Bible” was written in Greek because the Levant was ruled by Greeks from Alexander’s conquest (circa 330BC ) for around 3 centuries. Greek was the “language of worship” in synagogues of that time. It was not until the 9th century AD that the Jewish scriptures were translated into Hebrew.
    For a fascinating and, in my view, accurate theory of the origins of the O.T. see Russell Gmirkin:
    https://independent.academia.edu/RussellGmirkin

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  495. Incitatus says:
    @Brad Anbro

    “Incititas” – first of all, I do not hide behind an alias in my postings. I use my real name.

    Good for you! Hope you mention that to L.K, Mulegino1, Sparkon, Johnny Johnny, geokat62, Ruckus, etc? Surely those are their real names.

    “I am not going to attempt to argue with you about anything because a person cannot get anywhere by arguing.”

    Really? Are you on the right website? UR is ALL about argument. Have faith. Argue back.

    Doubtless you’re decent poster, but (no offense), lack construction/forensic expertise. As does David Ray Griffin PhD (professor of ‘philosophy of religion’, degrees from ‘Clermont School of Theology’?).

    Don’t doubt his earnestness, but he obviously lacks expertise. Why believe his books?

    Controversial subjects attract celebrity, bedrock of dissatisfied who pay well for tomes that enforce their conspiratorial world view (easy money). People who (minds made up already) believe people can’t get anywhere by arguing”?

    Stay well real name Brad Anbro.

    • Replies: @Rogue
  496. Incitatus says:
    @L.K

    “InZionistatus is a well known Neocon/Zionist activist who hangs around this website.”

    Quote anything I’ve ever posted even faintly “Neocon/Zionist”. Take your time. Be specific.

    It’s like an involuntary reflex with you isn’t it? Can’t argue with a post, stand on the sidelines and poison the blog with cowardly, unsubstantiated ad hominem that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Can’t face me, so you backstab with bogus claims. Why? Because you have absolutely no expertise other than petty malice. You’re a distraction, an irrelevant, a fart in the wind.

    What happened to your little Unz kindergarten star L.K? Forget to put UR on auto-pay? That’s the real question.

    “He’s been comparing the Wilton Paes de Almeida building collapse with the WTC buildings for a while now, not the first time”

    Never said they were comparable (the pathology of building failure is exact). Addressed delusional claims ‘fire can’t bring down a steel-framed structure’ by those who can’t explain why codes require fireproofing steel, can’t explain the collapse (on footprint) of a steel structure filmed in collapse. Yet they peddle the same nonsense, year after year after year. They’re a cult, sure as Jim Jones and Kool-Aid.

    That’s not you L.K. You’re just a witless bully who relies on invective and slander. Someone who has no expertise, only jealous, hateful bias. Have any mirrors in your house?

    “The buildings are so vastly different in regards to their robustness that a comparison is simply totally disingenuous.”

    The Truther assertion was that steel buildings were immune to structural failure due to fire. Now (proven wrong) you move the goal posts. How brave!

    Where’s your Unz kindergarten star L.K?

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wizard of Oz
  497. @obwandiyag

    There’s video showing the centrally located radio masts sinking first which means that the cores were blown first.

  498. @James Speaks

    There are videos of entire room of firefighters testifying of “flowing rivulets and lakes of liquid steel”.

  499. @showmethereal

    Interesting. I had never heard that ObL wanted to lead the fight against Saddam Hussein. What/where is the evidence?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @showmethereal
  500. @Wizard of Oz

    Australia has zero credibility in such investigations. Australia is fully the US lapdog as relates to such. Pompeo claimed he had evidence of the lab lead and yet never presented it. Pompeo is rabidly and manically anti China (he’s in a new “Christian” documentary called “Rise of China” full of lies). If he had the evidence he would have presented it. They can’t try that garbage of fabrication because that would be war. Making up garbage about torture and genocide in Xinjiang is one thing – trying to blame the Chinese government for leaking a worldwide pandemic is a whole other beast.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  501. Fred is a boomer who ran off to Mexico to marry a Mestizo. That tells you all you need to know. I suppose he finds the actual Mossad agents who danced on a rooftop while 9/11 was in progress to be a CT also. Or maybe he finds it “boring”.

  502. @Mats Loman

    By the way, what’s a “beaner”? As I foreigner I don’t quite get the lingo.

    Slang for Mexican (probably derived from the fact that beans are prominently featured in Mexican food). Using the term carries an undertone of mild contempt.

  503. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Interesting. I had never heard that ObL wanted to lead the fight against Saddam Hussein. What/where is the evidence?

    I really don’t like to be negative, but statements like this are exactly the reason I can never take anything you say seriously, especially on a topic like 9/11. Osama’s attempt to persuade the Saudi government to let him and his jihadis lead the fight against Saddam is so extremely well known I’m sure I’ve read it at least a couple of hundred times over the years.

    Indeed, during 2002 and 2003 it was routinely mentioned in the MSM to rebut the ridiculous Neocon propaganda that Osama and Saddam were allies rather than arch-enemies.

    I hate to repeat myself, but you’re very much like someone trying to dispute the complexities of World War II who has never heard of either Pearl Harbor or Barbarossa…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  504. @showmethereal

    Got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning? As one used to say…..

    I couldn’t agree more that the Australian government made an inept call when, immediately after the PN returned from being given a dinner by Trump Australia “demanded” an ‘independent inquiry” without consulting the 1.4 billion heirs to a “5000 year old civilisation”.

    But your comment misses the mark because the stupidity of the Australian government has nothing to do with judgement on Sharri Markson’s program and book,especially not the book because Ron really likes books.

    The fact that Pompeo is a rabid idiot has no bearing on the question whether someone else may have been able to join up dots convincingly.

  505. @Wizard of Oz

    You can look up the reason Osama was upset at the Saudi royal family for allowing the US military on Saudi soil. And all true Islamists were against Saddam. The same way they are against Assad in Syria. Westerners see them as Muslim rulers – but to Islamists both are far too secular and needed to be gotten rid of. The same way the US and Turkey and Saudi Arabia were using them to fight against Assad in Syria – was exactly what Bin Laden and others wanted to do against Saddam. Even though Baathists later joined Al Qaeda when Saddam was killed – that was more a marriage of convenience in order to kill more Americans – and also to kill Shi’ites – who are also their enemy. And is why Iran and Hezbollah has joined on the side of Assad. The Sunni jihadists (often backed by the Saudis) want to kill Shi’ites too. It was also Iran who did most of the fighting against ISIS in Iraq. That is why the Iranians feel so double crossed by the US. not just the JCPOA. The Iranians were arming and training Shia militia in Iraq to fight ISIS. They also were sharing intel with the US. All that potential good will is gone out the window now. Blown up like an IED at the roadside.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  506. Gemjunior says:
    @michael droy

    There were many “workmen” in and out of the WTC in the months prior to 9/11. That’s why some “CTs” were trying to bring attention to the fact that SecuraCom, the company responsible for the WTC’s security, was headed by a CEO who, again in a major coincidence (like a passport staying intact and landing on the sidewalk heh heh heh are we all fucking retards?) was the president’s brother Marvin Bush. But I guess only a committed CT would pay any mind.

    Fred Reed’s been sucking for a while now but it is getting worse. Nobody in their right mind accepts the official story, and explosives were used – it’s been proven in the Journal of Chemistry and Physics by Niels Harrit and his team- look up the study.

    Fred, you sold out with this IMO.

  507. @Mulegino1

    I would suggest you consult your high school textbooks, since hydrocarbon based fires don’t burn at 4,000 F.d

    I wonder how steel mills work.

    • Replies: @Zorton the Cruel
  508. Ron Unz says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    A state actor would mostly care about it being exposed afterwards. They could have another crack at it if the first one failed, but exposure afterwards would be catastrophic.

    Which of these two opposites does 9/11 fit?

    Well, let’s think of some analogous situations…

    Pro-Israel Zionists tried to assassinate President Truman, and did assassinate Lord Moyne and UN Peace Negotiator Bernadotte. None of the Zionists were ever punished, and the attempted assassination covered up.

    During the Lavon Affair, Israel launched a terrorist bombing campaign against American targets in Egypt, and was immediately exposed. The whole thing was covered up by the MSM and Israel was never punished.

    A few years later, Israel attacked the U.S.S. Liberty, killing or wounding more than 200 American servicemen, and the U.S. government very forcefully covered up the entire incident.

    According to Ostrovsky’s reasonably credible account, Israel planned to assassinate President Bush in 1992, but the whole thing was covered up by the MSM and the US government.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-mossad-assassinations/#the-other-side-of-deception

    There seems a great deal of evidence that the Mossad played the central role in assassinating JFK and RFK, and for more than half a century that has been covered up by the MSM.

    At the time of the 9/11 Attacks, 200 Mossad agents were caught by the FBI, many of them in close proximity to the attacks or the alleged hijackers, with five of the agents visibly celebrating the successful attack. The whole thing has been covered up for more than twenty years and all the Mossad agents quickly sent back to Israel.

    All these “exposures” have occurred during the last 70-odd years, but none of them has turned out to be “catastrophic.” So why would the Mossad have been overly concerned with the exposure of its role in the 9/11 attacks, or believed it might be “catastrophic”?

  509. Sean says:

    Pro-Israel Zionists tried to assassinate President Truman, and did assassinate Lord Moyne and UN Peace Negotiator Bernadotte. None of the Zionists were ever punished, and the attempted assassination covered up.

    These were not false flags. Eliahu Hakim and Eliyahu Bet-Zuri were hanged for murdering Moyne (on the orders of Stern). The two weapons they used were the very same ones as previously used in a string of shootings of Palestine police officers.

    During the Lavon Affair, Israel launched a terrorist bombing campaign against American targets in Egypt, and was immediately exposed. The whole thing was covered up by the MSM and Israel was never punished

    That was a false flag, but it was against an avowed enemy state. Also the vaunted Israel secret agents got caught, by Egypt, which is not the most efficient country in the world. What lesson would have been taken by Mossad.

    A few years later, Israel attacked the U.S.S. Liberty, killing or wounding more than 200 American servicemen, and the U.S. government very forcefully covered up the entire incident.

    Whatever the Israeli were playing at, that attack was done by the Israli air force in their standard markings, it was not a false flag.

    According to Ostrovsky’s reasonably credible account, Israel planned to assassinate President Bush in 1992, but the whole thing was covered up by the MSM and the US government.

    The Israelis have contingency plans for all sorts of eventualities, as do other countries including the US, who I suspect have highly secret plans to nuke London just in case it might one day be necessary.

    There seems a great deal of evidence that the Mossad played the central role in assassinating JFK and RFK, and for more than half a century that has been covered up by the MSM.

    There is also a great deal of evidence that a disturbed wife-beating 24 year old Texan ex Marine did it all by himself.

    At the time of the 9/11 Attacks, 200 Mossad agents were caught by the FBI, many of them in close proximity to the attacks or the alleged hijackers, with five of the agents visibly celebrating the successful attack. The whole thing has been covered up for more than twenty years and all the Mossad agents quickly sent back to Israel

    Some of them were placed in solitary confinement for 40 days. That is psychological torture, and is used to break Palestinians in Israel detention centres.

    All these “exposures” have occurred during the last 70-odd years, but none of them has turned out to be “catastrophic.” So why would the Mossad have been overly concerned with the exposure of its role in the 9/11 attacks, or believed it might be “catastrophic”?

    All those “exposures” were catastrophic for the careers of those military and intel people who embarrassed the Israeli state. For a false flag 9/11 to be executed by Israel the military and intel would have to say it was feasible and carried an extremely high probability of success. There would have be an awful lot of people brought into the loop because this was an extremely technical and cutting edge if not unprecedented demolition operation. Only in Lovecraftian horror does malevolence confer capability.

  510. anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    I didn’t even read the article in its entirety. Red herrings everywhere, mixing up one thing in history with something completely different as though that makes your point. Pretty disgusting stuff.

  511. Sean says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    It is a pity you included that ill-judged last paragraph of your comment, because the preceding ones had gave an excellent and objective analysis of how very much more difficult a false flag 9/11 would be.

  512. Rogue says:
    @Incitatus

    You are aware, I take it, that there are over 3 thousand architects and engineers for 9/11 truth?

    And that number does not include many commercial pilots and military pilots who reckon the skillful piloting that resulted in the Pentagon strike to be totally implausible.

    Also, at least some demolition experts (specifically as regards building 7).

    And not forgetting the former NIST employees who are scornful of NIST’s own conclusions.

    Plus the 9/11 commission members who say the official investigation was “set up to fail”.

    Do bear in mind, most people want a quiet life and no risk to their reputation or especially their careers or financial futures. Therefore, it is no surprise that most experts either say nothing or just go along with the official version of events. This is true of most people in every walk of life. Not just something like 9/11.

    • Replies: @MCMLXXII
  513. EuroNat says:
    @James Speaks

    You don’t understand the mode of failure but you obvious have a PhD in bullshit from 9/11 university.

    No, it is you who don’t know jacksh*t about construction engineering. A professor of construction engineering at Alaska Fairbanks University has published a paper claiming fire did not cause WTC7 collapse.

    https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7

    The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST and private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involving the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the building.

    Keywords here are *near_simultaneous failure of every column in the building*. Looks like a duck, swims like a duck and also kind of quacks like one.

    Why dont you stop polluting this comments section with your embarrassingly dimwitted mental droppings?

    Better read the above paper and either post a link with a rebuttal or look for an alternative approach to keep your shilling effective.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  514. @showmethereal

    Thanks. None of it new to me but a complexity of cross currents which can’t be ignored by anyone seeking to understand what America (and some allies, and “allies”) blundered into in the ME. A pity America had too few that had done even ME 101 before 9/11.

    Ron’s jolly little diversion in purported reply I read hours ago on waking and immediately started my searches to destroy his proof that it was his memory rather than my not reading the junk he has taken a liking to which was the problem. I laughed and rolled over and went to sleep again after finding this when I Googled for “did Osama bin Laden attempt to persuade Saudi Arabia to allow him to lead the fight against Saddam Hussein” and, in a long evenhanded Wikipedia article found this (and nothing closer to Ron’s false memories)

    “When Iraq invaded Kuwait in August 1990, Osama bin Laden offered to defend Saudi Arabia by sending mujahideen from Afghanistan to repel Saddam’s forces. After the Gulf War, bin Laden continued to criticize Saddam’s Ba’ath administration, emphasizing that Saddam could not be trusted. Bin Laden told his biographer that “the land of the Arab world, the land is like a mother, and Saddam Hussein is fucking his mother.” ”

    Rather different from what Ron thinks I should have remembered from a mere 20 years ago about a peripheral issue that may have loomed large for one who was about to join up with some palaeo-cons to oppose the second Iraq War. Maybe he can, though he hasn’t bothered to, put his finger on some 2002, 2003 quotes which are directly in point. But, so what? I didn’t need persuading in those years that the Iraq War was fraudulent and incompetent. I try to think efficiently. Why should I have bothered to notice, even in 2002/3 such trivial ephemera? (And as it was essentially untrue as fas as I can see, a fortiori).

    It is amusing how Ron goes out of his way to avoid the accumulating weight of Comments which don’t accept his grandiose conspiracy notions. Instead of flimsily based insult on trivia he should be showing gratitude to those who have provided versions which at least plausibly keep neo cons or Israel/Mossad in the frame.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Showmethereal
  515. @Ron Unz

    Apologies for not taking your diversionary frolic seriously enough to answer immediately. As you can see I have covered the ground in reply to showmethereal.

  516. @Ron Unz

    You used your rebuttal time well (no wonder all those Latino kids are speaking English well) but a comeback might emphasise a number of big changes between 1947 and 2001. Amongst those are the perceived need for Israel to improve its act in the US after Suez (1956). Achieved vis-vis Congress by 1982 per Sabrosky. But what about the media control?

    For each of your cover ups by the MSM who are you saying knew the truth but covered it up by some directions or blue pencilling – or subtle threats?

  517. @Ron Unz

    Your have your version of history. You seem to attach terrific credibility to it. I suppose it is the creation of many years of obsession.

    Nonetheless, look at what it is causing you to think is rational. You’re now claiming that Israel could do 9/11, be caught and completely exposed and not be “overly concerned.” That you believe that claim should make you seriously doubt your entire enterprise. It is like the mathematic proof that 2 + 2 = 5.

    You can get that by maths which you can sell as plausible, but the destination disproves the journey.

    But let’s go with it. Let’s say Israel is so persuasive and untouchable that they could openly do 9/11, claim it was Al Qaeda and there’d be zero consequences.

    Why would they then bother with 9/11? If you’re that totally persuasive, you don’t need events like 9/11 to get what you want. You don’t even need to murder 3000 citizens of an extremely friendly nation, many of them your co-religionists. You just instantly kick the Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank and sign peace with everyone. Conflict over. Job done. It isn’t like the Palestinians could stop it.

    You certainly don’t frame Al Qaeda so that various countries invade Afghanistan, then some people overstretch the argument to Iraq, when you’d prefer Iran, but your actual conflict is on your borders many, many miles away! See the tortured world your digging takes you to? It makes no sense. It requires Afganistan to be confused to Iran to Iraq and then a bunch more miles to the PLA in Ramallah. Only the most laughed at and silliest Israel activists even tried to make that mental jump. Imagine how comical it would be if some angry Zionist started claiming that Al Qaeda, when they were in Afghanistan, were actually a front for the PLA! I’d buy then a cookie because I’d assume their blood sugar was low, not take them literally as a credible interlocutor. Even among Israelis, are there any ripple that brazen, or pig headed? And yet that is actually what your conspiracy theory argues itself. It is what you are subtly doing.

    To put it clearly: you’re arguing for a world which has existed for 70+ years where Israel can do almost anything it wants, yet in factual reality Israel is a shabby, moderate regional power which has been unable to win against the useless Palestinians in an ugly but incredibly low casualty struggle over the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Meanwhile, you think they can assassinate the Presidents of the global superpower with impunity, openly do the largest terrorist attack on the global hegemon with impunity and have many, many other magical powers.

    You write your theories in a certain way. You try to make them moderate and reasonable when you begin each comment and article. You then aim to take the reader down a very elongated rabbit hole. This is a neat trick.

    The problem is that it takes you to upside down land and the prime victim of this trick is you. A world where you allocate Israel these miraculous powers is simply not the world in which we live. Israel has done well to survive since 1946, but its tiny advances during multiple high threat wars are absolute proof that what you’re peddling is nonsense. Azerbaijan just took and cleared and made absolutely theirs more territory than Israel has been able to in 70 years.

    When I was a child I would watch magicians and go “wow”, but even when five I realised that it was unlikely that the magic was real given that they were working at ordinary children’s birthday parties.

    Israel is the shabby magician which you dress up as, through your narrative, and your Pravda style is the “magic”. But those illusions only work for the idiots in the age group who are so broken that they need something to cling onto and, for everyone else, well it is a nice trick.

    People like Fred will instinctively mock this. I can see him, aged 8, grabbing attention, standing up, and mocking the party performer. The ringleader is a class of clowns.

    People like Steve will politely hint at clearer forms of thinking, probably he did the same as a child, by subtly letting the other kids know about “distraction” and other concepts, but only people who need to believe will believe.

    The kids who literally think the party performer is magic are not what successful movements are made of. You may find a handful of shadow magicians like yourself, but your followers will mostly be the very troubled “children” that you can see in almost every comment.

    If you’re really astute, you will have noticed that I am bored by what people literally believe about 9/11*. I am much more interested in their individual thought patterns and internal challenges. Jung had the concept of the “magician archetype” and, as with all of his archetypes, also believed that it might do an individual great harm if it got caught, unacknowledged, in that individual’s unconscious. Highly logical people could essentially convince themselves of anything, not knowing that they were the victim of their own illusions, their own magic tricks.

    If you want to understand what has driven you, why you are different from those you’ve known most of your life and why they are different from you, read this:

    https://scottjeffrey.com/magician-archetype/

    It certainly can’t harm you.

    [MORE]

    *What is won and lost through politics is much less critical to each individual than what used to be won and lost. We are now in a position to treat a war which only caused the US 100 casualties, a year, like a disastrous loss of American life. This is a huge advance. Yet politics as the twin of war remains and the language has actually become more extreme, I suppose to make up for the fact that the stakes are a lot lower. This is also why politics has replaced religion.

    Religion served as the medium by which individuals understood themselves, but politics has almost fully replaced it. This was inevitable as soon as everyone in the developed world could be pretty safe, sure of being fed and sure of being sheltered. Politics is much more present in people’s lives than religion and people can pretend to be seriously dealing with the world when they are just distantly dealing with their self. Once you understand how this is true for you too, you’ll find that really there is little more to understand and you are free.

    But these are all words and observations. The shortcut is for you to ask yourself how all of this tortured argumentation, which you do, makes you feel? Numb is an even worse answer than in pain.

    To “Sean”, if you read this, I have very few comments allowed, so I’ll include my response to you here. You say my last paragraph was “ill-judged” but that’s because you think I care about the politics, but I don’t. The last paragraph was the point of my comment and the preceding paragraphs were to demonstrate my value and establish my credibility. They were so that Ron would consider the last paragraph and reflect on it. They were speaking to him in a language which he understands. My approach and perspective is individual and not this strange leapfrogging of logic whereby people pretend to understand the entire world but don’t even understand themselves. I personally think Ron should give me a blog, on the condition that I apply this approach only to mainstream figures and mainstream delusions, but I would think that 😅

    • Troll: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Brás Cubas
  518. @Brewer

    Like I said.. Same as English. It was forced upon them. But Greek waz not used “at home”

  519. @Ron Unz

    You actually make some good points. Though I am only familiar with the USS Liberty and the deportations after 9/11… Both are very suspect. Only recently I learned about the Stern Gang assassinations and how some went on to become prominent in Israeli politics. To be honest – whichever side anyone stands on the cover ups make an attempted neutral like myself more suspect. I believe in equal treatment. So why so much excuse making? I am still trying o remain neutral – but when i see Pollard a convicted spy flown on a billionaire casino magnate plane back to Israel and greeted on the tarmac by Netanyahu I an understand why people take anto Israel stances. Frankly it is a disgrace and why even many religious Jews dont like the government. But I am still remaining neutral.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  520. Is there room to call out the wackier conspiracy theories? Sure.
    However, to do this in such a triumphalist and provocative language and to cherry pick to sully all scepticism against official narratives, it is not earnest. This article came across as trying to provoke the strongest possible reaction from people that feel strongly about various narratives and then sit back and laugh at the mayhem. The article makes the impression of trying to have fun at the readers expense. And have fun in a bad way.

    Personally, I will disregard whatever Fred Reed writes in the future. This article was a questionable thing done in a bad way.

  521. Sean says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    Why would they then bother with 9/11? If you’re that totally persuasive, you don’t need events like 9/11 to get what you want. You don’t even need to murder 3000 citizens of an extremely friendly nation, many of them your co-religionists. You just instantly kick the Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank and sign peace with everyone. Conflict over. Job done. It isn’t like the Palestinians could stop it.

    This time you ought to have ended it with the above; omitted the last dozen paragraphs.

  522. geokat62 says:
    @Patrick McNally

    The Samson Option is similar to Mutually Assured Destruction from the Cold War.

    While it’s similar, there is this key difference.

    While the Soviets and Americans were able to prevent the other side from launching a preemptive attack by threatening to annihilate the perpetrating party, the Samson Option has a slight wrinkle to it.

    Rather than threatening to retaliate against the perpetrator of a preemptive strike (most likely some Muslim country, eg Iran), the Israelis are threatening to take the West down with them, as they have nuclear missiles pointed at every capital city in Europe and Moscow.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  523. @Triteleia Laxa

    Only the most laughed at and silliest Israel activists even tried to make that mental jump.

    Here’s a video of a silly Israel activist making several hilarious mental jumps:

    Jung had the concept of the “magician archetype” and, as with all of his archetypes, also believed that it might do an individual great harm if it got caught, unacknowledged, in that individual’s unconscious.

    Also, all it takes for “Fred” to become “Freud” is “u” (you). Think about it.

  524. @geokat62

    Yes, that was the implied threat. And just like US-Soviet deterrence was designed to be something which neither side ever really wanted to use, likewise the Israelis never really wanted to use the Samson Option. On the other hand, the last 50 years has seen plenty of Arab Muslims who were ready to carry out a suicide mission, perhaps with the hope of meeting a bunch of virgins afterwards. It’s too bad that Islam doesn’t teach them that committing suicide will stick them with a hundred copies of Hillary Clinton. They’d never do it in that case.

  525. Ron Unz says:
    @Showmethereal

    To be honest – whichever side anyone stands on the cover ups make an attempted neutral like myself more suspect. I believe in equal treatment. So why so much excuse making? I am still trying o remain neutral

    Sure. Based upon the bulk of your comments, I think you’re probably a Chinese person, so there’s absolutely no reason you should have been aware of these elements of American history, especially since 99% of Americans themselves are ignorant of them.

    But the facts are the facts, and anyone can easily verify them.

    Here’s a strange hypothetical analogy regarding China. As everyone knows, the Manchus conquered China and ruled it for a couple of centuries despite being vastly outnumbered by the native Han, maintaining themselves by their monopoly of military force.

    But suppose that the Manchus had tried a different approach, pretending that they didn’t really rule China, and using their total control of the media to enforce that alternate reality. Various puppet rulers, often drug-addicts or other criminals, would be promoted as front-men. Anyone who pointed out that China’s ruling elites were Manchus would immediately get denounced and purged. Foreigners who noticed that China was ruled by Manchus and mentioned that fact would be severely punished.

    It would surely have been a very odd situation, and as a consequence, China might have begun to behave in very odd ways in all sorts of other matters.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  526. @EuroNat

    This so-called professor does not understand pancaking and neither do you.

    • Replies: @Anon
  527. I wasn’t disputing the “let it happen” explanation. We know that the Israelis and various other foreign intelligence services warned the US of something. We also know that pre-9/11 US society was prioritising things like “not racial profiling” over “increased security.”

    There is actually always some degree of “let it happen” when you’re dealing with a set of organisations as powerful and large as those that make up the US security state, especially when operating on US soil.

    I just don’t see strong reason to think that anyone sincerely helped it along, nor that they were certain it would happen and failed to warn against it.

    [MORE]

    The Israelis, after seeing it on TV, likely hoped that 9/11 would help them pacify the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. Neither have happened. That is because it would have been extremely wishful thinking by them to imagine that an attack carried out from Afghanistan would be decisive in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Israelis did not benefit in their primary aims from 9/11 at all, no matter how much they opportunistically wanted to.

    This Internet idea that they deeply cared about Saddam out is pretty stupid and it is imbecilic to think they’d frame the Taliban or want to use or facilitate them in order to achieve that. The Israelis likely want the West Bank, probably don’t want the Gaza Strip, though they want no attacks from it and then want peace.

    The Israelis had no interest against the Taliban at all, but they did and do have a constant conflict on their borders with the Palestinians. The Unz Review seems to think that the Israelis are some all powerful force, when actually they are a shabby moderate regional power which has struggled to gain control over small strips of land on their borders against useless opposition for decades with little success. Russia did their bit in a month. Azerbaijan too. And those were against real states.

    I suppose that various factions in the US did very much want to go and remake the world, but Afghanistan would have been the very last place anyone would have selected for such a project.

    Couldn’t they have framed an organisation hosted in Iraq and not bothered with the distraction of invading Afghanistan?

    Or couldn’t they have done so with Iran?

    Literally anywhere but Afghanistan would be more promising as a place to remake, with a more strategic location, with more natural resources and easier for a sea power.

    Afghanistan was always an improbable option, because the Taliban could just hide in Pakistan and the US certainly had no stomach to mess with a nuclear power with an army bigger than it.

    Now if someone wants to argue that a bunch of megalomaniac neocons took advantage of 9/11 to see if they could remake the world in some sort of post war Germany and Japan transformation then I would obviously agree. This is what smart political operators do. They have their plans and then try to shoehorn events to fit them. It is an ideological outlook that tends to result in their plans being tried, but those plans being inappropriate. It is better to look at reality and then make plans, or at least that is how I think, but then I’m not driven to do these things because I prefer to have my nice life.

    If that anti-neocon person also wanted to add that it was ridiculous to skip from Afghanistan to Iraq, then I would agree too, but it is just as ridiculous to skip in the conspiracy theorising in the same way.

    Furthermore, if they wanted to point out that many Jews were involved and that doubtlessly at the back of those Jews’ minds, was the idea that Iraq might be a stable democratic ally for Israel and begin a domino effect solving Israeli problems, then I would agree again!

    A liberal democratic Iraq, that was on its way to first world status, would be an incredible ally for Israel and would transform the Middle East. Since I like liberal, rich and democratic countries to visit, it would also be nice for me. Maybe women wouldn’t be second class citizens in that Iraq?

    Perhaps it is a pity that humans don’t always work the way the Germans and Japanese do?

    Were the assumptions of Liberal egalitarianism correct, as most of the elites assume, Iraq would be the economic and democratic miracle of the Middle East by now.

    This would have be an amazing thing and the Arab Spring would have been very different.

    North Africa and the Middle East would now look a lot like Poland and places similar circa 2010.

    The US strategic position would be unassailable and the US’s credibility would be unimpeachable.

    The US elites bet big on the assumption that liberal egalitarianism is true, but it turns out that it isn’t. Various racists and anti-Semites knew it wasn’t true, as did many other people, but rather than learning the lessons of Iraq, they prefer to make up conspiracy theories so that they can pretend they are standing against complete evil or complete insanity, rather than sincere and understandable but mistaken individuals.

    Their worse than the Republican party, which, when Biddn pulled out of Afghanistan, suddenly swung out against it. It is like they want to lose and they want to be wrong, because as soon as they’re proven right, they change their minds and dig some ridiculous rabbit hole of nonsense.

    Liberal egalitarianism therefore continues to thrive and idiots on Unz continue to project out their antisocial fantasies. It is all very funny, even if it is also very sad at the same time.

  528. MCMLXXII says:
    @Rogue

    You are aware, I take it, that there are over 3 thousand architects and engineers for 9/11 truth?

    And that number does not include many commercial pilots and military pilots ….

    That proves nothing, you need only one with a proofable reason.

    If you think that “truth” comes from a “democratic process” in which all those who disagree are excluded -yes- , then witch burnings were the culmination point on this “search for truth”.

    Your statement is on the way to that, darkest middle ages and pure belief system.

    • Replies: @Rogue
  529. MCMLXXII says:
    @Colin Wright

    The irony is that not only is Fred effectively covering for Israel

    I read Fred long before he moved to this side. Imo he had always an “i do not care” position about that religion, stated this in a few subordinate sentences instead of an article.

    Most of what he writes is profound, and even here, the “dissenting voices” are mainly emotional because they can’t compete on a factual level.

    Mr . Unz do the same. Babbeling about words, number of word and that he read some books. No proofable arguments as Fred done very often. He is a very good publisher but that doesn’t necessarily mean to be a sharp thinker.

  530. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Speaks

    What is “so-called” about it?

    Dr. Hulsey has advised the UAF Steel Bridge Team annually since 1993; and the teams have won the American Institute of Steel Construction’s national competition two times and finished in the top ten nationally during four of the past five years; and this is a remarkable record, given that the contest draws more than two hundred teams, including entries from top U.S. engineering schools;

    Look, you may or may not be right about the more involved aspects of what you are saying, but when you are unable to acknowledge the obvious, such as that a given person can actually be a professor, it casts a certain degree of doubt on the rest of your arguments.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  531. Ron Unz says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    …in a long evenhanded Wikipedia article found this…Rather different from what Ron thinks I should have remembered from a mere 20 years ago about a peripheral issue that may have loomed large for one who was about to join up with some palaeo-cons to oppose the second Iraq War.

    Relying upon a few minutes of Googling and Wikipedia for gathering information on controversial historical issues that were previously unknown to you really isn’t the best approach.

    I probably read that story about Osama’s 1991 offer to fight Saddam many dozens of times during 2002 and 2003, and have seen it widely repeated over the subsequent couple of decades. In fact, I recall that the half-joking response by the Saudi government was that Osama’s fanatic jihadis would have a hard time breathing once Saddam hit them with his chemical weapons.

    With the twentieth anniversary of 9/11, I spent the last few days finally reading a couple of books that had been sitting on my shelf for years, including the famous Mearsheimer/Walt Israel Lobby and Stephen Sniegoski’s excellent Transparent Cabal. The latter book is conveniently available on this website in HTML format:

    https://www.unz.com/book/stephen_j_sniegoski__the-transparent-cabal/

    I’m sure these books could be easily obtained in audio form if you find that necessary.

    Let me emphasize something. I am absolutely sure that there are many, many topics in which you have great personal expertise and where I know almost nothing. But for exactly that reason, I avoid venturing my own opinion on those topics, let alone doing so in an aggressive manner that would only make me look foolish. I think you and many other individuals might benefit from following the same more cautious approach.

  532. @Wizard of Oz

    Well it all depends on hatkind of media a person consumes. I try to read or listen to news from every continent. Admittedly I probably pay most attention to Asia. But That is how I try to triangulate truth. Every side has their own agenda… The truth is out there somewhere. But the issue was well covered in the mid east and central asia.

  533. @Anon

    If you’re so in love with this guy and his unique theory, why don’t you email every Civil Engineering and Structural Engineering department in the country, and make sure to include the ASCE committees that put out their own, seriously flawed report.

    https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7

    Because if you don’t, I will.

    • Replies: @Anon
  534. @Ron Unz

    Ouch… When you put it that way – I can see exactly what you are coming from.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  535. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @James Speaks

    If you’re so in love with this guy and his unique theory, why don’t you email every Civil Engineering and Structural Engineering department in the country, and make sure to include the ASCE committees that put out their own, seriously flawed report.

    I never heard of him until a few hours ago from this thread. It took about one minute to find out that he was an actual professor and not a “so-called” professor, whatever the heck that is.

    The point is that you evidently are as willing to talk nonsense as sense, so it is difficult to take whatever else you say seriously.

    Because if you don’t, I will.

    Why don’t you, instead of just yammering about it on here? And be sure and tell us all about it.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  536. Wokechoke says:
    @Brewer

    Oswald’s leftwing motives did express themselves as philoemitic concern for whitey persecuting Jews. It’s a good enough fit for why he felt hostility to Kennedy after expressing previous admiration. In a sense Oswald was an Antifa prick.

  537. Better than caution I proffer a genially mirthful reply to your latest avoidance of any substance in favour of making a bungled shot at a misrepresented target.

    You say
    “I probably read that story about Osama’s 1991 offer to fight Saddam many dozens of times during 2002 and 2003” which, even for one with superhuman energy, suggests a great misdirection of effort and attention for anyone seeking to think efficiently. I won’t seek to judge the efficiency of your thinking at that time when you were seeking to mount a palaeo horse with Pat Buchanan et al. But I didn’t need to pay attention to or remember peripheral arguments in support of propostions I had filed under “Obvious – No Need to Prove”.

    Moreover, as you might have inferred, my words that you picked on were a response to what I took to be a suggestion that ObL was offering to fight Saddam Hussin (and perhaps invade Iraq to depose him) in 2002/3. That is why I asked about it.

    PS Have you had any thoughts prompted by those videos of the demolition of 15 Chinese high rise buildings (which I found in the FT btw)? E.g. Why would the conspirators go to immense trouble. requiring much time and skill to bring down WTC 1 and 2 in the extremely complicated and expensive way that occurred instead of just blowing them up fro the bottom and causing even more damage? As they were going to spoil the “Arab hijackers did it”story by blowing up WTC7 there was no reason

  538. @Francis Miville

    67 brothers. From THREE wives ? Really ?

    An average of 22 sons by each wife (plus one extra to one of them) – and presumably also various daughters along the way ?

    Sources, by any chance ?

  539. Winston says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well said. With things like these, it’s hard to convince me that Jews controlling America is merely a conspiracy theory. For example:

  540. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    I probably read that story about Osama’s 1991 offer to fight Saddam many dozens of times during 2002 and 2003, and have seen it widely repeated over the subsequent couple of decades. In fact, I recall that the half-joking response by the Saudi government was that Osama’s fanatic jihadis would have a hard time breathing once Saddam hit them with his chemical weapons.

    “A few minutes of Googling” would turn up that it was also reported on Dec. 23, 2001, in the NYT:

    Indeed, after Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, Mr. bin Laden, fresh from the war against Soviet invaders of Afghanistan, came calling on Prince Sultan, Saudi Arabia’s defense minister. According to an oft-told story in official Saudi circles, Mr. bin Laden said Saudi Arabia didn’t need a foreign infidel army to defeat Iraq; he and his followers could do it. ”There are no caves in Kuwait,” Prince Sultan then said. ”What will you do when he lobs missiles at you with chemical and biological weapons?” Mr. bin Laden replied, ”We will fight him with faith.”

    It is a pretty funny story.

    I personally hadn’t heard of it, though, having been too young to read newspapers in the 2000s, until reading an article by Angelo Codevilla (recently deceased, unfortunately) which ascribed some considerable importance to the event as a factor in bin Laden’s life:

    Come Saddam’s brief 1991 invasion of Saudi territory, bin Laden made himself ridiculous by asking the king to use his little band to drive back the Iraqi army. The ensuing rebuff, coupled with the stationing of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, turned bin Laden into a critic, then an enemy of the regime, which quickly expelled him to Sudan.

    ( https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=13732 )

    • Thanks: Ron Unz, Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Showmethereal
  541. @Anon

    Your response proves my point. I said he doesn’t understand pancaking but I bet he does. That was not the failure mode in WTC7. You and all the other experts have decided you’re right and then you go looking for evidence, because there must have been a nuclear explosion or thermite or whatever to melt the steel because in you little minds the buildings could not fall until the columns had melted. What about before they melted? Well of course they had their full strength because you don’t know shit about structures.

    So you go out and find a professor who had a divergent opinion and then you come back here and strut because your professor had a bigger penis than me.

    You’re on an ego trip and your obnoxious stupidity is disgusting.

    FYI, I’m going to read the professor’s paper, and understand it (which is something you can’t do because you have no way of knowing if he is wrong or right). I’m going to read it because WTC is problematic, unlike WTC 1 and 2, whose collapse was obvious to me. As I watched them fell I said, “Yup. Columns buckled. “

    You don’t know if you’re right or wrong. Your opinion is useless.

    • Replies: @Anon
  542. @Showmethereal

    And here’s a real life extension to what Ron has provided that I hope won’t deter you from the worthy task at chipping away at the more extreme and ridiculous positions he refuses to back down from.

    I was reminded of the story, which for various reasons I think I can date to 1967, by conversations after the Church of England funeral of a Jewish university Vice-chancellor (President) who had been elected to his city’s leading traditional men’s club in about 1967. (Last I heard “Mao’s Last Dancer” was also a member). As a result of a couple of embarrassing blackballings a vetting
    (membership advisory) committee had been set up. At the 1967 meeting a committee member who had been at school and Oxford with the Jewish V-C said “I’m not sure I should mention this but just as X years ago one might have thought it prudent to mention that someone was a Catholic I do mention that AB is Jewish”.

    My point is that giving effect or expression to antisemitism was just not on amongst decent people, anyway educated or upper middle class in a country which had never had Jewish control of its film industry or its other media or anything remotely close to it. I doubt even that Australians in 1967 would have known what you were talking about if you asked how many people were killed in the Holocaust. It’s hard to make comparisons with a country so vast and varied as America but I think pro Palestinian activism is a lot healthier and freeer from attack in Australia than the US.

    • Replies: @L.K