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Saigon Evacuation, 1975. Credit: Wikimedia Commons.

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Forty-six years ago in a previous comedy I was in Saigon, recently having been evacuated from Phnom Penh in an Air America—CIA—Caribou carrying, in addition to me, several ARVN junior officers and perhaps a dozen BUFEs (Big Ugly Fucking Elephants, the ceramic pachyderms much beloved of GIs). America had already embarked on its currently standard policy of forcing small countries into wars and then leaving them in the lurch. In Cambodia this led to the reign of Pol Pot, the ghastly torture operation at Toul Sleng, and a million or so dead. In the unending fight for democracy, casualties are inevitable.

At the time Saigon was tense because Ban Me Thuot had fallen and the NVA roared down Route One toward Saigon. To anyone with the brains of a doorknob, the American adventure in Vietnam was coming to an end, but the embassy was studiedly unconcerned. Embassies do not have the brains of a doorknob, but are keenly aware of public relations. Acknowledging the inescapable is not their way. As usual, Washington would rather lie than breathe, and did. As in Cambodia, so in Nam, and so later in Afghanistan.

Apparently a genius at State realized that a lot of gringo expats lived in Nam—the number six thousand comes to mind, but may be wrong—and that six thousand hostages taken when Saigon fell would be bad PR. So the embassy in Kabul—Saigon, I meant to say, Saigon—quietly announced that expats could fly out on military aircraft from Ton Son Nhut. They didn’t, or at least many didn’t. The NVA continued its rush toward Saigon.

The expats didn’t fly out because they had Vietnamese wives and families and were not going to leave them, period. These wives may not have had the trappings of pieces of paper and stamps and maybe snippets of ribbon. These things do not seem important in Asian war zones. But the expats regarded them as wives. Period. The family went, or nobody did. Period.

The embassy didn’t understand this because embassies are staffed by people from Princeton with names like Derek who wear pink shirts and don’t know where they are. The ambassador is usually a political appointee being rewarded for campaign contributions and probably doesn’t speak the language as few gringos spikka da Pushto or Vietnamese or Farsi or Khmer. For example, nobody at all in the embassy in Cambodia spoke Khmer. The rank and file of State are better suited to a high-end Rotarian barbecue than a Third World city teeming with strange people in funny clothes eating God knows what horrible things in winding frightening alleys. And so the State people could not understand why an American would marry one “of them,” as in the embassy I once heard a gringa put it. It was a good question. Why would a man marry a pretty, sleek, smart, self-reliant woman who wanted family and children? It was a great mystery.

The Taliban—NVA, I mean–NVA kept coming closer. A PR disaster loomed.

Meanwhile the PR apparatus insisted that the sky wasn’t really falling even as it did and no, no, no the US had not gotten its sit-down royally kicked by a ratpack of rice-propelled paddy maggots, as GIs described the opposition. Many in government seemed to believe this. This was an early instance, to be repeated in another part of Asia, of inventing a fairyland world and then trying to move into it.

Finally State faced reality, a novel concept. It allowed quietly that expats and their families could fly out, military. It was getting late, but better than nothing.

The comedic value of this goat rope grew, becoming more amusing by the hour. I was trying to get a young Vietnamese woman out as she had worked for the embassy and we suspected things might not go well with her under the NVA. Call her Linda. Linda and I took the bus to Tan Son Nhut. The Viet gate guards gave her a hard time, envying her for getting out while they could not, but we got in. I was going to tell the State people that we were married but that while I was in Can Tho, by then in VC hands, see, the marriage papers had slipped from my carrying case. This was obvious bullshit, but I guessed that if I made a huge issue of it they would bend rather than get in a megillah with a reporter, no matter how unimportant.

We found ourselves in a long line of expats with their families leading to the door of a Quonset hut, inside of which a State official was checking papers. Some of the expats had around them what appeared to be small villages of in-laws, brothers of wives, sisters, everything but the family dog. An official with a bull horn told us to write down all their names and the relationships on clipboards being passed around. Tran Thi Tuyet Lan, sister, for example.

Then a genius at the embassy or Foggy Bottom realized that something resembling a third of Viet Nam was about to come out, listed as in-laws. Policy changed, at least in Washington which was as usual blankly ignorant of reality on the ground. At Tan Son Nhut this meant telling men that they had to leave parts of their families behind, which they weren’t going to do. This would not look good above the fold in the Washington Post. Dozens of Americans taken captive because the State Department would not let their families out.” All was confusion because the US had spent years telling itself that the disaster couldn’t happen. What to do?

American ingenuity kicked in. At the Quonset hut the guy with the bullhorn announced, “From now on, all mothers-in-law are mothers, all brothers-in-law are brothers. Change your forms.” All along the line, magic markers went through “in-law.” This meant that some women had two mothers, but this under the circumstances seemed a minor biological quibble. The guy with the bull horn was at most three feet from the guy in the Quonset hut who was certifying papers as valid. He solemnly looked at the papers with their strike-through’s, , certified them as correct, and that was that. A field expedient.

Hours and hours went by. Night came. Tempers frayed. Nobody seemed to have planned how actually to get these people out. Nobody seemed to have planned anything. Finally a 130 howled in. This was the Lockheed C-130 Hercules, a four-engine turboprop cargo bird and a magnificent plane. It taxied over. The engines did not shut down. The prop wash was strong and hot. The tail ramp dropped. The waiting mob were rushed aboard without ceremony. There were no seats in the dark cavern of the fuselage. That would have required planning, which no one in Washington had thought of. The air reeked of burned aviation kerosene. We squatted on the cargo deck while an Air Force guy with a bullhorn warned, “Keep the kids’ hands out of the expansion slots, you’ll lose them.”

The real-world Air Force didn’t have people named Derek in pink shirts and if you told it all rules off, get the job done, it did. Ramp up, fast taxi, takeoff run, tight corkscrewing climb with the engines running at power I didn’t know they had. The NVA and VC were now very close due to incompetent planning (have I mentioned incompetent planning?) and might have SAM-7s so it wasn’t a good idea to fly over territory they now controlled. Cutting and running from a stupid war run by generals as clueless as they were careerist, with Saigon spinning below, seen through open doors amid tightly packed peasants going they had little idea where. Days later when we got to San Fran on a chartered airliner, hundreds of refugees were dumped into the main concourse, no immigrations, customs, or paperwork.

And now we have done it all over again in Kabul, complete with helicopters over the embassy and a panicked evacuation undertaken way too late and sudden concern for turncoat Afghans who made the mistake of working for the US. There is talk of importing 20,000 Afghan refugees to America. I find it amusing that many conservatives, who thought the war was peaches because it was about democracy and niceness and American values, now object to importing people their dimwitted enthusiasms put in line to be killed. Use and discard. Countries and people.

There was the now-traditional underestimation of the speed of the insurgent advance, the predictable deprecation of the “good” Afghans for not fighting with sufficient enthusiasm for the Empire: If they didn’t care enough to defend their country, Biden would say with earnest cluelessness, what could we do?”

So why did this happen? Why another rush to the exit as the world laughs? Which the world is doing. In a sentence, because if you do something stupid and it doesn’t work, it probably won’t work when you do it again.

The psychological explanation is slightly more complex. Vietnam is a good example. America invaded a country of another race, utterly different culture, practicing religions GIs had never heard of, speaking a language virtually no Americans spoke, a country exceedingly sick of being invaded by foreigners, most of them white. in Afghanistan the designated evil was terrorism, in in Viet Nam communism, but the choice of evils doesn’t matter. You have to tell the rubes at home something noble sounding.

Then the Americans did as they always do, training the ARVN, the Army of the Republic of Vietnam, to fight the communists to impose democracy, which the Viets had not asked them to do. But when you ask some Viets (Bodes, Laos, Iraqis, Afghans) to fight other Viets (Bodes, etc.) to kill their own people for the benefit of the invaders, they are not greatly charmed. With a predictability that makes sunrise seem chancy, they desert, fight lackadaisically, with officers charging the US pay for soldiers who do not exist, and probably go over to the other side en masse when the collapse comes. Which latter the Afghan army just did. Duh, as the kids say.

The speed of the Taliban advance took Americans by surprise because officers are liars and had been hiding the deplorable state of the “Afghan” army, its numbers, morale, degree of training, and phenomenal rates of desertion. Often the American officer corps thinks that if it can just have a little more time, they can win, so lying is a part of the war effort. Biden bought into this, announcing that the Afghan army vastly outnumbered the Taliban and was better armed and trained and the insurgents couldn’t possibly do what they proceeded to do.

Another reason is that the American style of war recruits its enemies. Soldiers are not the Boy Scout defenders of civilization that so many like to imagine. They kill a lot of civilians, many tens of thousands in the bombing of cities such as Baghdad and Hanoi. Ground troops come to detest the natives whom they designate gooks, zipperheads, sand niggers, camel jockeys, and the like. They commit war crimes that, when discovered, are called “isolated incidents,” when in fact they are common.

Fragmentation bombs produce such things as a little girl crying with her belly torn open and intestines falling out while her mother goes stark raving bugfuck mad watching her daughter bleed to death and she can do nothing about it. But it is for democracy and American values, and anyway the ragheads breed like flies, and besides, CNN won’t air it. Today drone strikes hit weddings and other gatherings. When you kill people in a village, the young men join the insurgents, wanting revenge. When a few thousands were killed in Nine-Eleven, Americans exploded in rage. Three thousand is a small fraction of the numbers killed in, say, the attack on Baghdad. The Iraqi soldiers killed in a hopeless attempt to defeat the Americans were sons, fathers, husbands, brothers of other Iraqis. How much love do we think it engendered in Iraqis? This seems not to occur to Washington.

Militaries at bottom are amoral. Afghans know of the torture operations at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. Americans seem to dismiss such things as minor. They are not. Afghans seeing Moslems lying in pools of blood at Abu Ghraib, or being paraded around naked in hoods, are going to want to kill someone. Guess who.

American wars last a long time because no one has an incentive to end them. American casualties are low, especially now with the killing mostly done from the air against peasants with no defenses. No important American ever gets killed. American wars are all class wars, with the dying being done by blue-collar suckers from Kansas or the deep South, not by Bush II, Hillary, the other Clinton, Bolton, Bannon, Obama, Blinken, Biden, Cheney, Kamala, Trump, and the rest of those not required to fight. The US public has little idea of what goes on in its wars because the corporate media hide them. the Pentagon having learned that the media are their worst enemy, not the Taliban. It would not surprise me if one unfettered camera crew, filming the corpses and mutilated children and devastation, could force an end to such a war.

Americans are not heartless but calculatedly uninformed. Wars are also extremely profitable for those who provide the bombs, fuel, vehicles, and so on. If the US loses a war, the contracts stop, and equally if it wins. Keeping it going for decades provides a steady revenue stream. What’s not to like?

Finally, or as much as I am going to worry about, there is the 1955 Syndrome, the engrained belief that America is all powerful. This is arrogance and self-delusion. In the Pentagon you encounter a mandatory can-do attitude a belief that the US military is indomitable, the best trained, armed, and led force in this or any nearby galaxy. In one sense this is necessary: You can’t tell the Marines that they are mediocre light infantry or sailors that their aircraft are rapidly obsolescing, their ships sitting ducks in a changing military world, and that the whole military enterprise is rotted by social engineering, profiteering, and careerism.

But look around: The US has failed to intimidate North Korea, chase the Chinese out of its islands in the South China Sea, retrieve the Crimea from Russia, can’t intimidate Iran, just got run out of Afghanistan, remains mired in Iraq and Syria, failed to block Nordstream II despite a desperate effort, and couldn’t keep Turkey from buying the S-400. The Pentagon plans for the wars it wants to fight, not the wars it does fight. The most dangerous weapons of the modern world are not nukes, but the Ak-47, the RPG, and the IED. Figure it out.

And now the US comes home, leaving Afghanistan in ruins for decades. Use and discard.

 
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  1. Rich says:

    North Vietnamese didn’t have a problem killing other Vietnamese. VC didn’t have a problem killing their fellow Vietnamese. Taliban doesn’t seem to have a problem killing their cousins who oppose them. I’m not sure where Fred got his idea that people don’t want to fight their own kind. Had the US provided the promised supplies and air support, S Vietnam might not have fallen. The Soviets never stopped supplying the Vietnamese communists.

    Afghanis are upset about Abu Ghraib but they don’t mind the torture chambers of Saddam, the Iranian mullahs or the Taliban itself? The US pulled out, that’s why the Taliban is taking over. Had the US stayed, the Taliban would still be in the bush. That’s just a fact and that doesn’t mean I supported the mission, it’s just reality.

  2. Another CIAist.

    This site is a hotbed lair of ’em. Gee, I wonder if we’re on any lists or anything.

  3. These “defeats” are successes. Don’t count the ground gained. That has nothing to do with winning wars. Count the amount of armaments exploded and replaced, exploded and replaced, exploded and replaced. Repeat.

    A big winwin all around.

  4. dearieme says:

    “nobody at all in the embassy in Cambodia spoke Khmer”: amateurs.

    The draft-dodger, Biden, like the draft-dodgers Trump, W, Slick Willie, is perhaps not well suited to be commander in chief. Especially now he’s senile.

    And Biden may still be on China’s payroll. The photocopiers who elected him should be deeply ashamed.

    • LOL: Angharad, mc23, InnerCynic
  5. Julian Assange speaking in 2011: “The goal is to use Afghanistan to wash money out of the tax bases of the US and Europe through Afghanistan and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. The goal is an endless war, not a successful war” #Afghanistan

  6. Anonymous[113] • Disclaimer says:

    America had already embarked on its currently standard policy of forcing small countries into wars and then leaving them in the lurch.

    The Afghanistan war, and the subsequent occupation, are clearly unprosecuted war crimes but only the local collaborators in that crime are being left in the lurch and I’m fine with that. It will actually make it more difficult for the US to convince the next set of prospective traitors to turn against their own.

    Fred, unsurprisingly, wants all of them to be brought into the US. They are, apparently, our responsibility because they trusted us and now we must suffer the consequences. In the real world, people in the West have turned against these Jewish wars many years ago and that’s continuing with ever-increasing intensity. Meanwhile, these Afghan collaborators were happily supporting the carnage and occupation of their own country without flinching for 20 years and as long as the money and the air support could be provided, they’d be on board that meat grinder train forever.

    It also looks like Fred is unhappy that we are allowing the Taliban to take charge. What’s the problem? They were in charge before the war. Is it problematic that they have different values than us? Should we intervene again?

    But the worst part is that Fred is deliberately lying to his readers. He knows that both Jewish projects – the invasion of Afghanistan and the invasion of the US – are bad for the goyim but he doesn’t care. The guy couldn’t get laid in the 1st world and had to climb on his Social Security check in the 3rd to get a family. Everything after that is a product of this failure. He wants the US to become a hopeless brown paste because he’s done it to his own bloodline

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Troll: Biff
  7. That was a pretty good column, all in all. You do well when your write about stuff you actually DO know about, Fred Reed. Your description of the end of the American era in Vietnam, the military and State Dept. brass vs. the individuals, etc. was great reading. I came to this one bit in the middle, though:

    I find it amusing that many conservatives, who thought the war was peaches because it was about democracy and niceness and American values, now object to importing people their dimwitted enthusiasms put in line to be killed. Use and discard. Countries and people.

    No, you dumb fuck. You do know who Steve Sailer is, as you worked for the same website (VDare) for a bit, so don’t lie about this. “Republicans” or “GOP” ≠ Conservatives. Real Conservatives have opposed the “Invade the World / Invite the World” policies for decades. We’ve opposed the immigration invasion, even of you nice people from Ole Mexico for many decades.

    Just write about what you know. Obviously, the political attitudes of Americans are NOT what you know, so stop the BS. Also, on top of this generally very good article, you put this “Despair” in the title. The withdrawal from a multi-Trillion dollar 20-year long war in Afghanistan is not what we despair about, but there are plenty of things we do. All you do is disparage the people who try to do anything about said real problems.

    Now, to give this post some perspective that even Mr. Reed would appreciate, I present the Tweet of the Century, one I WISH I had written myself:

    Does that not say it all?!

  8. “Americans are not heartless but calculatedly uninformed…”

    All of the uninformed are so by choice, and sometimes-quite often actually-by stubborn and determined choice.

    Those who refuse to see what is true for the sake of servicing their bias are heartless.

    Those who are apathetic tell themselves, sure some people get killed in wars, but not many and anyway, it’s not important…I can afford not to know.

    Maybe they’re not heartless, but I don’t have much sympathy for them.

    Otherwise, I agree with every word of Fred’s essay. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  9. Angharad says:
    @dearieme

    I’m stealing that line about photocopiers.

    • Replies: @36 ulster
  10. Angharad says:
    @Anonymous

    Thank you! You are perfectly correct in everything you’ve written. Re: Wars for Jews – Fred is married to a Mexican Jewess – so his mind and spirit were colonized a long long time ago.

  11. @Anonymous

    He wants the US to become a hopeless brown paste because he’s done it to his own bloodline

    No, he hasn’t. All his children are from his previous wife, who is white. He has no children with his Mexican wife; I believe she’s now past the age where that would be possible.

  12. Phipps says:

    Why does Fred Reed never discuss the Jews’ role in these Mideast wars? Muslims hate America because it supports Jew crimes against humanity in Palestine. That was the main impetus for the 9-11 attacks. If the Jews did not own the government and the media, we patriots/non-Jews might have a Mideast policy that reflects our interests and not just the interests of the cunning, scheming, manipulative, deceptive, selfish, anti-Christian, anti-Caucasian, disloyal, decpetive, treacherous Jew community.

  13. Dr. X says:
    @Rich

    North Vietnamese didn’t have a problem killing other Vietnamese. VC didn’t have a problem killing their fellow Vietnamese. Taliban doesn’t seem to have a problem killing their cousins who oppose them. I’m not sure where Fred got his idea that people don’t want to fight their own kind.

    Yes.

    Fred makes many good points, but he is wrong in thinking that the Turd Worlders are united against the gringo imperialists and aren’t willing to slaughter each other by the boatload. They are, and they do.

    Uncle Sham simply exploits the rifts between these people and bribes them with cash and weapons. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

    • Agree: Sarah
    • Replies: @mijj
    , @Justrambling
  14. Currahee says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “Does that not say it all?!” Saw it the other day and yes it does.

  15. Sigh. I am reminded of the lyrics of a long-ago song by James Taylor: “…let it fall down, fall down, let it all fall down.” Not too many years after the Russkies left the ‘stan, the Soviet Union collapsed. One can only hope. Stay tuned.

  16. Currahee says:
    @Angharad

    “Fred is married to a Mexican Jewess”
    Is this true? How do you know this?
    Fred?

  17. ruralguy says:

    Managing a complex undertaking is not easy, it requires an open mind to see every possible outcome and an open mind to see multiple conditions that potentially could have caused a problem. On paper, this seems simple, but in the real world, almost all people jump to the first explanation that pops into their heads, then refuse to reconsider it, even when reality dispels that explanation. That’s how untrained human minds think. Most people don’t compose their thoughts, preferring the mindless mind drift that we all use in our daily interactions with the world. Thinking composed thoughts requires much training. The people leading our country, lack these skills. They have no idea of what they are doing, because their thoughts are just a mindless jumble of emotions and moralistic judgements. The chaos of their minds becomes chaos in planning.

    Wars can easily be fought and won, but it requires brilliant planners and an ability to execute to that plan. Our political leaders can only create chaos that reflects their minds.

  18. Vietnam and Afghanistan produce opium. Vietnam trans-shipped Burmese opium. Follow the drugs.

    Suggest you read Doug Valentine.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  19. Biff says:

    The money line:

    in Afghanistan the designated evil was terrorism, in in Viet Nam communism, but the choice of evils doesn’t matter. You have to tell the rubes at home something noble sounding.

    • Thanks: Sarah
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  20. Uncle Al says: • Website

    The Vegetable-in-Chief gave the Taliban some \$1.7 billion in state-of-the-art lethal military hardware plus full encryption hardware, passwords, and content.
    WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?

    Oh yeah…add 40,000 hostages soon to be subtracted. And you thought President Peanut and the US Iranian embassy was a fuming rotted discharge. Start chopping off right hands to monetize the cost of feeding them. OK, feeding the Progessively diminishing number of them.

    Meanwhile, China will swallow Taiwan, our only source of automobile chipsets. The Biden Carburetor Initiative will save America with 500 mpg flatus inhalation! Exectuive Order: All roads must slope downward in both directions.

    Start building gallows.

    • LOL: sulu, Thomasina
    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
    , @turtle
  21. AceDeuce says:

    What’s with this burned out old dickhead calling White expats in ‘Nam “gringos”?

    Go back to eating that Hot Pocket that they told you was a tamale, Fred. You’re about a half step ahead of Biden at this point, brains-wise.

    • Agree: Liosnagcat
    • Troll: Biff
  22. Thanks Fred, another well done report, Marine.
    I spent 1973-74 on Oki with the S-2 Scout shop of 1/9 3rdMarDiv, poring over aerial photos and laying out LZ’s in the parks and soccer fields of downtown Phnom Penh and Saigon, for just that occasion (Operations Frequent Wind and Eagle Pull). We were to insert from the evac aircraft and set up on the edge of the LZ’s and had claymore bags of 7.62 match ammo for our M40’s and were to take out any RPG’s or snipers we encountered approaching those LZ’s (to prevent them from laying an RPG up the ass of a CH-53).
    A year later I stood in the TV room at 2nd Recon Bn, Camp Lejeune watching the whole clusterfuck unfold in real time. Myself and the VN vets just stood there with mouths hanging open, shocked is an understatement.
    Today I get lectured by hawks who never once stepped up to the yellow footprints or wore a uniform for even a day (I spent 2 yrs USNR and 7 yrs USMC) and get lectured on my lack of patriotism.
    I’ve already seen how the US treats it’s vets and allies.

    • Thanks: Fred777
    • Replies: @Robright
  23. You’re so right about it all, Fred. To the self-styled “masters of the universe” the only wars they consider lost are the ones that end.

    • Agree: St-Germain
    • Replies: @Liosnagcat
  24. Great article Fred.

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
    • Disagree: Liosnagcat
  25. Hibernian says:

    …not by …Bannon…

    He was a Navy veteran.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon

  26. This column sums it all up pretty decently.

    The really amusing thing to me is seeing the flood of articles in the MSM in the “We got Afghanistan Wrong, gol-darn it!” vein.
    These are the same morons who have been blowing smoke up our arses for the past 20 years and now it’s supposed to be reasonable that they have suddenly seen the light and attained wisdom.
    I suppose that Fox and the National Review are doubtless preparing their abject apologies to Pat Buchanan while MSNBC is doing likewise for Noam Chomsky.
    People really are gullible.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  27. Selecto says:

    You are so correct in your article.Fifty four years ago,I spent three years of my life in Vietnam….Eighteen months as an Infantry officer and another eighteen months as a civilian contractor.I left Vietnam in 1969 and realized from experiences there,we were not going to win the war.I was sorry to be correct.If we don’t get our shit together,we can loose another one and it might be our last.

    • Replies: @Liosnagcat
    , @Bill Jones
  28. TG says:

    Hahaha.

    No you don’t get it – this is not a bug its a feature.

    Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics.

    Tha Afghanis breed like rodents, the population was about 20 million when the US invaded, it’s about 40 million now. It will be 80 million in another 20 years, if they have enough food.

    “The more the merrier” is crap. If there are more people, you need more developed resources and industrial infrastructure. Period. For the last 20 years, the US had to have seen how the population of Afghanistan was increasing, had to have known how much food and water etc. would be needed to accommodate this increase, had to have seen that – FOR WHATEVER REASON – it was not happening. And looked the other way.

    But no worries, we are going to import the ENTIRE SURPLUS POPULATION OF AFGHANISTAN into the US, no questions asked, Because the rich love cheap labor.

    Flawless victory. As long as you know what the objective was…

    • Thanks: Thomasina
  29. @obwandiyag

    Julian Assange speaking in 2011: “The goal is to use Afghanistan to wash money out of the tax bases of the US and Europe through Afghanistan and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. The goal is an endless war, not a successful war” #Afghanistan

    This is interesting given that we now learn:

    LONDON/WASHINGTON, Aug 18 (Reuters) – The Taliban took over Afghanistan with astonishing speed, but it appears unlikely that the militants will get quick access to most of the Afghan central bank’s roughly \$10 billion in assets.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/afghan-central-banks-10-billion-stash-not-all-within-reach-taliban-2021-08-17/

    The USA invaded and took over Afghanistan in 2001. It had nothing, so where did this \$10 billion come from? Where will it go? You can’t trust Biden for facts:

    • Agree: Jim Christian
    • Thanks: Agent76
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  30. Talking a little bit more seriously, I do figure that this was the last US war.
    US will not make war forever.

    • LOL: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @Tony massey
  31. @Phipps

    The “main impetus” for the 9-11 attacks was NOT Muslim hatred of America; it was Israel’s use of their Mossad in the furtherance of their quest for realization of Eretz Israel as expressed by Oded Yinon in the 1980’s.

    • Agree: profnasty
  32. @Fran Macadam

    I’m not sure Fred recognizes those “masters”.

  33. @Selecto

    One does not “loose” a war; one loses it.

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
  34. @Rich

    USA is the biggest thug internationally==bogus war on terror and 911–it was inside job with perfect demolition and scheduled by Marvin Bush’s team at Trade Center–wiring weekends and evenings…..kaboom .

  35. @Anonymous

    “…The guy couldn’t get laid in the 1st world and had to climb on his Social Security check in the 3rd to get a family. Everything after that is a product of this failure. He wants the US to become a hopeless brown paste because he’s done it to his own bloodline…”

    Yes. that appears clearly from this passage:

    “…And so the State people could not understand why an American would marry one “of them,” as in the embassy I once heard a gringa put it. It was a good question. Why would a man marry a pretty, sleek, smart, self-reliant woman who wanted family and children? It was a great mystery…”

    Notice also his use of the terms “gringo” and even “gringa”, indicating where his loyalty lies.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  36. @Uncle Al

    USA has —is–will be working with the wrong set of values —-war and using the military has not accomplished what education, building infrastrucure, factories and getting the plebs working and porductive could ahve achieved. Look at the mess the USA has left hehind—-Libya –Somalia- Nam- Iraq – Afghanistan—-but then —some 1% made out like bandits finacing, equipping and advancing the interests of the WAR machine ——

    • Replies: @Pat Kittle
  37. @Barbarossa

    Call it “systemic gullibility”.

    • Replies: @TheBoom
  38. sulu says:

    Fred writes quite well here about a subject I’m sure he knows well. War…the oldest scam in the World. Probably second only to, “It’s your baby.”

    What was old saw about Vietnam that was made popular by the 60’s counter culture?
    “What if they had a war and no one came?” Something like that. I wonder if the rubes are ever going to stop signing up for military service?

    Every powerful country seems to have its’ rise, its peak, its decline, and its fall. As a native born American and casual observer of the current shit show I would have to say America’s rise was during WWII and its peak was in 69 when we went to the moon. I recall when looking at old videos of mission control that there didn’t seem to be many Tyrones or Oprahs in evidence. The moon missions occurred during a time when science was god, optimism for the future was everywhere and White men were firmly ensconced in positions of power. I was ten when we landed on the moon and I quite naturally assumed that by the time I was 40 I would be able to ride a Pan Am flight to the moon for my vacation at some Lunar Holiday Inn. And if we had continued funding the space program at the levels of the late 60’s my assumption would most likely have come to pass.

    Now, in 2021, we have unqualified minorities in every profession. Blacks, feminism and faggotry are enshrined in a aura of sainthood and the entire country has gone straight to hell. 60 years ago California was still a place that people aspired to move to. Now it is full of homeless that shit on the streets, faggots that do probably much the same, and niggers that casually walk into any store they want to with a Santa Clause sized bag and proceed to steal up to \$950 worth of merchandise.

    I think we can safely say America is well into its decline. Can our fall be that far away? What’s next? The dollar loosing its reserve currency status? Hyperinflation? Civil War? Balkanization?

    It must just be a coincidence that all of this coincides with the rise of niggers, feminism, faggotry and the decline of White men. They couldn’t possibly be related could they? No, hell, I’m just a conspiracy theorist. It’s all just a huge Cohen cidence.

    Sulu

  39. @Achmed E. Newman

    “…Afghanistan finally liberated from a regime that imposes mandatory face coverings, destroys statues and promotes the genital mutilation of children…”

    To be replaced by a regime that imposes burqas on women, destroyed the Buddha statues of Bamiyan and promotes circumcision of its boys?

  40. After that idiotic gushing over the parasites and their intelligence article you produced recently–you actually wrote a good article. That was a nice read.

    • Replies: @Poco
  41. gatobart says:
    @Rich

    “Had the US stayed, the Taliban would still be in the bush. That’s just a fact and that doesn’t mean I supported the mission, it’s just reality.”

    No, The fact is that the U.S. left, the rest is speculation, wishful thinking, innuendo. “Ifs” and “woulds” don’t make for reality. Reality is what actually happened, not what would have happened if. The U.S. abandoned Vietnam after the majority of Amerricans pressured their government to do so and now it left Afghanistan simply because it can’t anymore be playing the world’s hyperpower. Deal with it.

    • Replies: @Rich
  42. sulu says:
    @Phipps

    Why does Fred Reed never discuss the Jews’ role in these Mideast wars? Muslims hate America because it supports Jew crimes against humanity in Palestine. That was the main impetus for the 9-11 attacks. If the Jews did not own the government and the media, we patriots/non-Jews might have a Mideast policy that reflects our interests and not just the interests of the cunning, scheming, manipulative, deceptive, selfish, anti-Christian, anti-Caucasian, disloyal, decpetive, treacherous Jew community.

    Not only does Fred never, ever, ever, discuss the fact that the Jews are the authors of 99% of our ills here in America and the entire world for that matter, he goes to great lengths to try and obfuscate the fact. The article just previous to this one was the worst Jew ass kissing fest that I have ever seen in my life. I’m pretty sure Fred is planning a trip to the V.A. in order to clean the brown stain off of his tongue. I cannot believe for one minute that Fred actually believes the bullshit he wrote in that article so it really begs the question as to why Fred believes he must Fellate Jewish cock with such enthusiasm. Current theories suggest he has an upcoming book deal or perhaps he is afraid if he writes the truth about the Jews he won’t get his social security check. One outlier theory is that Fred is a Crypto Jew. I don’t give that one much credence but stranger things have been known to happen.

    What ever the case may be, when the subject of the Jews arises Fred suddenly becomes the most bald faced liar imaginable. Hard to know what their hold on him is but they obviously have one.

    Sulu

    • Agree: Irish Savant
  43. Wokechoke says:

    Interesting details. It betrays a problem of course. Several British soldiers have multigenerational involvement in Afghanistan. Stretching back as far as 1830s. I saw 4 officers getting upset about this retreat on a deeply emotional level. You can’t maintain the flat in the Chelsea Mews, the mansion in Surrey and be invested in a place like Kabul. As an American Nor can you like the Ranch House in the burbs or the log house in Aspen and be invested in a place like Herat Kost Kandahar or Saigon. One fucking place or another boys. If you like these people so much dear Soldier, naturalise there and take the consequences for your Xenophilia. Rome had the good sense exterminate conquered people and plant the soldiers on the bonemeal of the dead.

    • Disagree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Miro23
  44. Wokechoke says:
    @Biff

    The Opium poppy. The a flower of Sickness.

  45. mijj says:

    > “Americans are not heartless but calculatedly uninformed”

    … correction … “misinformed”

    • Agree: Thomasina
    • Replies: @Irish Savant
  46. mijj says:
    @Dr. X

    the US Civil War illustrates Turd Worlders (as you describe them) have no problem killing each other.

  47. Renoman says:

    Great writing Fred, thank you.

    • Agree: Commentator Mike
  48. Zorost says:
    @Anonymous

    Agreed, anon.

    Afghans are child-raping monsters, and they won’t stop when they land on the magic dirt of America. Which is precisely why they’ll be dumped in red/purple states, as they are already doing with the first batch scheduled to go to WI and TX.

  49. @obwandiyag

    And the number of ‘gooks’, ‘Chinks’, ‘slopes’, ‘rag-heads’ and sundry other goyim ritually slaughtered. For the USA and its Five Eyes and Zionazi colleagues, murder is a sacrament.

    • Agree: Hillbob
  50. @Dr. X

    Any occupation that triggers internal resistance will inevitably generate animosity between different local factions. Imperial wars invariably polarize the societies they rule over and disrupt, hence the divide and conquer/ruin phenomenon. Anti-colonial wars commonly produced groups that served their colonial masters often turning against their own. And so the vicious cycle of vengeance starts, even spilling into the post-colonial eras. My two pennies worth. To criticize people turning against their own without taking into account this historical trend is, IMHO to miss the point.

    • Agree: Sarah
  51. Great piece with one gaping, screaming omission: the obvious Shlomo factor.

  52. Larry says:
    @Rich

    Thank you for pointing out that our USA is just as bad as the Soviet Union, the VC, and the Taliban.

    Truly fucking rewarding.

    • LOL: Hillbob
    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  53. @Phipps

    If the Jews did not own the government and the media.….they wouldn’t have been able to carry out the 911 attacks in the first place. FIFY

    • Agree: Alfred, Olivier1973
  54. KeltCindy says:

    Thank you for sharing the reality, Fred, from a fellow (albeit MUCH less-decorated) veteran of yet another ill-advised, poorly-planned-and-executed foreign war…

    Cindy 😔
    (USAF, “Gulf I” & Former Yugoslavia)

  55. Tucker says:
    @Rich

    After last week’s effort to shore up his kosher creds by shoveling tons of manure on White males, this week Fred takes a break and shifts his anger to the greed and criminality of the Military Industrial Complex and the loathsome political elites who repeatedly have lied our country into one pointless and unnecessary war after another.

    And, as far as his assertion that people are not willing to fight and kill people who belong to the same tribe as they do – here is a case in point that totally obliterates that ridiculous claim:

    1861-1865 The War Between the States right here in America.

    A war where the wrong side wound up winning. And, which is why we are now leading directly to a repeat of that war and I cannot wait for it to get going.

    • Agree: Joe Levantine
  56. Kapyong says:

    The occupying empire was increasingly unpopular in Afghanistan. The leaders disconnected from reality, the soldiers hated for their abuses. Challenges to their power went un-answered. Their weak leadership vacillated several times to leave, then stay, then finally abandon Kabul in an ignominious retreat.

    No, not USA in 2021. But UK in 1842.

    Elphinstone lead 16,000 out of Kabul and into the jaws of death. One week and 90 miles later just ONE wounded man reached Jalalabad. One of UK’s greatest military stuff-ups (and it’s a big list.)

    https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2015/11/15/elphinstones-1842-kabul-retreat-during-the-first-anglo-afghan-war/

    Discussed in Dr Norman Dixon’s On The Psychology Of Military Incompetence.

    Also in the hilarious historical novel of George McDonald Fraser Flashman, whose hero turns up everywhere from The Charge of The Light Brigade (and the Heavy Brigade), the Battle of the Little Big Horn, the burning of the Old Summer Palace in China, the Schleswig-Holstein question and more. Worth reading – sparked my interest in history.

    • Replies: @Corrupt
  57. Alfred says:

    Why would a man marry a pretty, sleek, smart, self-reliant woman who wanted family and children? It was a great mystery.

    In 1978, when I was only 28, good-looking and really stupid, my Iranian girlfriend insisted that we got married at the British Consulate in Tehran. She was a beautiful girl with honey blond hair and green eyes. Her father was a supreme court judge, professor of law at Tehran University and a landowner. Her grandfather had been called the Shah of Gilan (near the Caspian). He lost a huge amount of land during the CIA-inspired “White Revolution”. I mean, she was not an ordinary girl. Lots of Iranian guys envied me. 🙂

    We went to the British Embassy. We had an appointment. We met a British lady. Obviously a middle-aged spinster. She said that we could not get married there. We had to go to the UK. It was obvious that she completely disapproved. I did not realise at the time how lucky I was. 🙂

    A few months later, I had to flee Tehran. But that is another story.

    Forget the drivel about the Iranian Revolution. Almost no foreigners were killed, but a massive number of Iranians died. A journalist from the Los Angeles Times was shot because he was pointing a giant telephoto lens out of his window at the Intercontinental Hotel. I cannot think of anyone else.

    Raytheon sent me back to Tehran that summer to collect some money. I had a great time.

    PS

    The Shah secretly married a fourth time. His beautiful and much younger wife was called Gilda Soofi. She was a second-cousin of my girlfriend. They were similar-looking. My girlfriend was sometimes mistaken for Gilda. After the Revolution, Gilda married the son of an Ayatollah. She never had any problem about having been a wife of the Shah. Women are much smarter than us guys. I never met her.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @GMC
  58. gotmituns says:

    Does our “Afghan allies/colleagues” = Traitors

  59. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Right. See, that there’s the meat of the joke.

  60. Can’t see importing to many Afghani males. The price of little Boys on the black market would receive upward pressure. Guess we’re gonna have to give our politicians another raise to cover the cost.

  61. They kill a lot of civilians, many tens of thousands in the bombing of cities such as Baghdad and Hanoi.

    Two days ago on Twitter I saw a video of Australistani war criminals in Afghanistan hunting down and murdering an unarmed Afghan farmer.

    Now if I were Afghan, I would be aware that not one of the war criminals involved will ever be punished, and that they will probably never give me a chance of revenge by being redeployed anywhere within reach. So – being moved to righteous vengeance – my only recourse would be to blow away any Australistani citizen within my reach, or, if Australistanis aren’t available, citizens of their owners and controllers would do at a pinch. Right?

    And the families of the Australistanis I exterminate, people who had nothing to do with murdering that farmer, people who might be totally innocent aid workers or tourists, not even uniformed thugs (“soldiers”), will then want revenge for my blowing away their families. Correct?

    Then, with their approval, Australistan and its colonial masters will be encouraged to attack my people more, which will lead to more Australistani war criminals murdering more farmers, and that in turn will move me to gut any Australistani I catch alive. With me so far?

    So if the original Australistani war criminals were publicly hauled before a court, stripped of rank, tried and found guilty of murder, and punished in full measure, the cycle would more likely than not stop right there. It would also tend to make it less attractive for other Australistani uniformed thugs to murder unarmed Afghan farmers in future.

    This is a powerful incentive for punishing one’s own war criminals while one can.

    • Agree: Hughes
    • Thanks: Thor Walhovd
    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Jiminy
  62. Sarah says:
    @Angharad

    Fred is married to a Mexican Jewess – so his mind and spirit were colonized a long long time ago.”

    This exasperates me. Even if his wife is Jewish, so what? You write “colonized”; why not “contaminated”, while you’re at it?

    In that case, what should I say, who is much more than “colonized”, my main line being Jewish for centuries, from a very large Jewish family.
    That doesn’t stop me from reading Ron UNZ’s articles.
    It does not prevent me from sharing the concern of the author of this article.

    Warmongers and warprofiteers revolt me.
    Billionaires, philantropists, psychopaths, sociopaths, politicians, ready to exterminate millions of people to become even richer, disgust me to the core.
    I totally sides victims.
    I am amazed to see, while they have not left Afghanistan yet, they are already preparing the next war.

  63. @obwandiyag

    Another CIAist.

    Who? Fred or Rich?

  64. EdwardM says:

    everything but the family dog.

    That was the farewell meal I suppose.

  65. Alfred says:
    @Phipps

    Muslims hate America because it supports Jew crimes against humanity in Palestine. That was the main impetus for the 9-11 attacks.

    Why do so many people on this website pretend to believe the official narrative?

    Are you all idiots? Or are you afraid of being traced and punished for thought crimes?

    Anyone with half a brain should know that the Saudis are incapable or organising anything substantial. 9/11 was carried out after many months of preparation and hard work by Israelis and their American stooges in the Deep State. Kindly stop spewing rubbish.

    I think they keep this stuff up on Youtube just to rub your noses in their shit. To demoralise you.

    Israel Did It – 9/11

  66. Jim H says:

    ‘And now the US comes home, leaving Afghanistan in ruins for decades.’ — Fred Reed

    Easier said than done, my man, with some petites complications arising:

    ‘The British government has sent in 900 elite paratroopers to rescue some 4,000 nationals in Kabul, and told the soldiers to expect face to face combat with the Taliban.

    ‘Sources have indicated that the U.S. command is unhappy with the British forces going into the heart of Kabul, claiming that it is putting the withdrawal agreement at risk.

    ‘British troops are said to be livid at the way America is treating Afghans who are desperate to flee the Taliban. Yet American troops are also said to be pissed off with their higher ups not letting them run rescue missions alongside the Brits.’

    https://tinyurl.com/r4s9anb9

    It’s one thing for Kabul airport to be occupied by foreign troops. But Rambo rescuers rumbling into town, prepared to shoot it out with the locals, obviously are a serious provocation.

    The current uneasy standoff in Kabul seems ripe for disruption of a kinetic character. The stupidity ain’t over till the US-UK [pronounced ‘you suck’] alliance actually slopes off into the shadows.

  67. Alfred says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    Does it matter? (having a Jewish wife)

    You should have asked Stalin. He had 3 Jewish wives. The Kremlin was reputedly stuffed by Jewish beauties at that time.

    The only original Bolsheviks who were not Jewish had Jewish wives. The only Gulag commanders who were not Jewish had Jewish wives.

    I can go on but you will never “get it”. You seem to think that the climate is at the mercy of CO2. 🤣

    New Zealand Sees 1+ Meter (3.3 Feet) of Snow in 24 Hours, Summer Flurries Hit Alberta, as “Wildfire Season-Changing” Storms and Record Cold Sweep the U.S.

  68. Miro23 says:
    @Wokechoke

    Rome had the good sense exterminate conquered people and plant the soldiers on the bonemeal of the dead.

    Just what Rome didn’t do. It offered conquered peoples a good deal. In return for paying taxes they could keep their local leaders, got infrastructure (roads/ aqueducts using previously unavailable technology), a stable currency, an international and fair legal system and effective defense – the Pax Romana. Leading non-Italians could aspire to Roman citizenship. Imperial provinces flourished with the stability and new opportunities for trade.

    Compare that to the deal offered by the US in Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria etc. More along the lines of simple destruction and looting.

    • Agree: Alfred, Robjil
    • Replies: @Wokechoke
  69. …leaving Afghanistan in ruins for decades.

    The Chinese will get it fixed up quick enough if the Taliban play their cards right. They should ask the Chinese for a roadmap for re-construction, a five year plan or something. Then take the roadmap and modify it as needed. Afghanistan may get 5G and high-speed rail before the U.S. does.

    Meanwhile, the U.S. Treasury has seized Afghanistan’s assets even as it asks (begs) Afghanistan for favors.

    • Agree: Miro23, Decoy
  70. Biff says:
    @Alfred

    My first wife was a raving beauty(on the outside only) – biggest mistake of my life. I went for the brains with my current wife and couldn’t be happier. ;^)

    • Agree: Sarah
  71. @Liosnagcat

    Although I have heard of letting slip the dogs of war…

    • Replies: @tyrone
    , @Badger Down
  72. @Currahee

    Has Fred ever replied to anything? I think not.

    • Replies: @Brock Townsend
  73. @Rich

    You are 100% wrong regarding the Soviets continued military supply to Hanoi and US failing to support South Vietnam. The United States provided \$700,000,000 dollars a year in military support to The Republic Of Vietnam following the signing of The Paris Accords, and we rammed in vast quantities of munitions and equipment in the months before the signing. ARVN was lavishly supported. In addition we violated the terms of The Paris Accords by continuing B-52 strikes in 1973, until stopped in August by Congress. Additional violations of The Paris Accords involved “replacement of equipment”. For example, we replaced South Vietnamese F5As with much more advanced F5Es. But it went much deeper than that, we ignored the treaty whenever it could give South Vietnam an advantage. Your most egregious error is regards the Soviets. It is a little known fact that an obscure agreement with the Soviets was our most important factor in propping up South Vietnam, and the Soviets were honest and cooperative. The North Vietnamese never intended to honor the spirit of The Paris Accords. They signed in order to get The United States out, and only partly honored the agreement due to fear The United States would get back in. The North never took in to account the opinion of the US public, which wanted out of Vietnam, PERIOD. So for 1973, the NVA was mostly quiescent, fearing renewed US intervention. However in late 1973, they went to Moscow seeking new military aid to continue the war. They were surprised when the Soviets said “Nyet!”. This was because of a special agreement, not negotiated by the incompetent Kissinger, but by a “Goy”, that gave the promise to the Soviets of Most Favored Nation status in return for the Soviets turning off the tap of military aid. Hanoi was stunned when the USSR refused to support their planned offensive for 1974. It was the agreement with the Soviets that was key to ensuring the survival of South Vietnam, as they could not continue their crusade without the lavish quantities of excellent Soviet hardware. This all unraveled in 1974 due to (((You Know Who))). “Scoop” Jackson(with Jooo Richard Perle on his staff) insisted on a rider to the Most Favored Nation legislation that required the Soviets to relax their prohibition on joooish emigration from the USSR to the zionist entity. The Soviets quite rightly saw this as interference in internal affairs and mixed their cooperation. In November 1974 they renewed massive military aid to Hanoi enabling the buildup for the hugely successful Campaign Of 1975. The untold story of the Vietnam War is the hiddent hand of the joooz, against the interests of The United States, from beginning to end. First of all crypto Joo LBJ got us into that mess in 1965, in order to divert attention from the zionist entity’s planned attack on The West Bank and Egypt, scheduled for 1967. Second, there was the incompetent Kissinger who negotiated a cracked Paris Accords that permitted the NVA to remain in South Vietnam, then he lied to Saigon about it, who knew the truth through their spy network, and that poisoned our relationship with President Thieu. General Abrams had pushed the NVA into a box, and the NLF was neutralized, so Hanoi likely could have been forced to withdraw from the South as a price for America getting out(Hanoi calculated they would just renew the war, counting on the usual lavish Soviet military aid). We aced Hanoi with the agreement with the Soviets, but the joooz wrecked that too. Finally there was another incompetent jooo, “Tom” Polgar, CIA Station Chief, who bungled his every assignment, from Intel on NVA to the evacuation in 1975. His most idiotic behavior was fraternizing in early 1975 with a known Hungarian intelligence officer who was tasked by the Soviets with conducting a “soft penetration” of Station Chief Polgar. It involved hanging out and drinking Arak and socializing about Hungary(Polgar was a Hungarian Jooo) with the aim of befogging Pilgar as to the imminent Campaign Of 1975. It worked like a charm. Polgar totally failed at Intel of the 1975 offensive and even failed to evacuate South Vietnamese CIA employees possessing critical knowledge of methods and means. Polgar even mistakenly showed to an East Block intelligence officer a chart with agent code words. To recapitulate, the untold story of the Vietnam War, which destroyed America’s credibility in the world, is the hidden hand of the joooz, from getting us into that fiasco, to wrecking our successful program, against the odds, of ensuring South Vietnam’s survival. LBJ, Henry Kissinger, Scoop Jackson(not Jooo but shobbos got), and Tom Polgar were all instruments of joooish treason against The United States. They continued this campaign with the disastrous War On Terror.

  74. @sulu

    “What if they had a war and no one came?”

    I think you mean “What if there were a war and no one went to it?” This is a quote from Bertolt Brecht; it is, however, generally conveniently forgotten that he continued: “Then the war will come to you.”

    Apart from that, I agree with every single word that you have written.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
    • Thanks: sulu
    • Replies: @sulu
  75. @MichaelWme

    Sounds to me like ol Fred is saying and doing what he wants with his own thinking cap and if’n that ain’t American I’ll kiss your ass.
    Good Fred salvaged some good years at the end. Good for you Fred.
    To hell with it. Do like Fred dude.

    • Agree: Montefrío
  76. Alfred says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Two days ago on Twitter I saw a video of Australistani war criminals in Afghanistan hunting down and murdering an unarmed Afghan farmer.

    This happens in all wars – plus raping, pillaging, torturing, bombing, burning and much else. It is normal. It has always been so.

    The question arises why Australia’s media has become so interested in recent months with events that happened in Afghanistan many years ago?

    Why are Australia’s most successful infantry, the SAS, being demonised?

    Why are they trying to demoralise Australia’s military?

    Instead of attacking those who started these wars – people like Tony Blair – they are attacking those on the ground who have to do the dirty work.

    Let’s not forget that the official reason for invading Afghanistan included bringing “democracy” – with women voting plus a host of other woke items. There is no criticism of those using drones, snipers, mortars and aircraft to kill innocents.

    Here is an article that goes into this in some depth.

    The woke media are using alleged Australian war crimes in Afghanistan as a smokescreen for the fact their worldview has failed

    It is worth bearing in mind that the Australian Navy is participating in the throttling of Yemen. Millions of Yemenis are starving at present, but there is nothing is in the Australian media about it. Some unlucky Afghani peasant who was murdered 14 years ago is so much more interesting.

    Yemen is not starving, Yemen is being starved

    What I am trying to illustrate is the fact that the Australian public is being played with not so subtle propaganda and selective information.

    • Thanks: Sarah, Robjil
  77. @Zarathustra

    What about an internecine conflict in her living room?
    Any chance she might turn the sword inward ya think?
    Guess we’ll have to just wait and see huh.

  78. Rich says:
    @gatobart

    Well, the “evidence” we have is that as long as the US had boots on the ground, the Taliban was stuck in the bush, coming out only for the occasional terror attack. If the taliboys had been able to defeat the Americans, they would have been fighting and killing Americans prior to the American announcement of withdrawal.

    The US abandoned its obligations to S Vietnam after its popularly elected president was removed in what amounted to a coup and Congress was taken over by pro-communist democrats. If the 1972 election was a referendum on Vietnam, the people supported Nixon’s plan of providing supplies and air support to the S Vietnamese government overwhelmingly. He won by a landslide.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    , @gatobart
  79. @Rich

    When people from the same tribe fight against each other, such parties have skin in the game, be it lust for power, greed or ideology. The big question to ask about U.S. meddling in other people’s affairs, is how does it benefit the American people? The answer is it never does but it sure benefits the oligarchy.

    Just try to express your thoughts about a foreign power like Great Britain entering the fray during the War of the North against the South that is referred to by bogus historians as “ the American Civil War”. I guess that would not be palatable to any fair minded person.

  80. Poco says:
    @RedpilledAF

    And those smarty smart, ever so smart joos have nuttin to do with any o’ the wars either. Not just smart but the most moral of all people. Everything is the fault of gringos and gringas. Can you believe one gringa he encountered once long ago doesn’t love love love all minorities? At least the juden solved that issue.

  81. 1% and 9%. The former is the boss that gets most of the booty while the latter are functionaries and get scrap of the boss’s table. And if one is honor-less, it doesn’t matter what the boss feeds you. Being that the 90% of population is not in on the deal, it chooses to remain deliberately ignorant. Can you blame them?

  82. @MichaelWme

    Don’t think I have seen you on this site before, M.

  83. Anonymous[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Absolutely. He’s literally putting the blame on the white race in general and the resistance forces in Afghanistan. Isn’t it amazing that this “anti-war” scribe can’t stop shitting on the two main groups that fought back against this Jewish crime?

    But it gets worse.

    The two main guilty parties are the Jews in charge of the foreign policy establishment in the West and the Afghan collaborators. The first group is invisible in his writings and replaced with eViL GRinGoS while the other is almost venerated. You see, “we” (meaning all gringos except him) are betraying the murderous betrayers, which is a bad thing somehow, so now they have to be shipped into the white lands (not his, of course) to fester and multiply.

    Fred is the biggest shill on this website – by far. Everything in the virtual “Fred’s World” he’s projecting for us is inverted and/or dishonestly mangled. The bad guys are good and the good guys are bad while the author is an interventionist non-interventionist and a warmongering peacenik. It’s almost funny but he does have a few groupies who’ll brainlessly clap in the comment section like clubbed seals. That’s just sad.

    • Replies: @anon
  84. Leo D says:
    @Rich

    You may fight like cats and dogs with your family members, but have some stranger come in and cuff your sister or brother across the face…

    Or, as Otter and Boon from Animal House opined…

    They can’t do that to our pledges…only we can do that to our pledges…

    I think that was Fred’s point.

    Yes, they hate each other, and will kill each other…

    But they hate us more.

    • Disagree: Rich
  85. Trinity says:

    We all know the reason for these wars and some of us know the purpose of demoralizing the American military. This was Jew War For Greater Israel so stop blaming America as the villain. You can blame Americans for being hoodwinked and having less than honorable leadership. WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, War For Greater Israel all had Jew fingerprints all on them so stop already with America bad the rest of the world is good. The rest of the world is just as corrupt and probably more evil than America. These primitives from the third world are not noble creatures, the opposite, life is cheap where they live, backwards, like cavemen, you see that with the rapugees in Europe, who not only rape women but children, boys and girls. In Austria recently a 13 year old girl was raped and murdered by an Afghan. In Germany, a Afghan caveman raped an 11 year old girl was released on bond and then went out and raped a 13 year old girl.

    Get the war mongers and Israeli firsters out of the military because if you demoralize the military so much where you don’t even have a military, then what? Oh, that is part of the plan to collapse America. Demoralize the populace and finally demoralize their will to fight. Gotcha.

  86. @Angharad

    “ Re: Wars for Jews – Fred is married to a Mexican Jewess“

    Oh great! Now I understand better his previous article “ For Whom The Bell Curves” which was the finest piece of Jewish glorification I have seen on UNZ.COM.

    Thanks.

    • LOL: Trinity
  87. @Alfred

    “ 9/11 was carried out after many months of preparation ”
    According to the head of German intelligence when 9/11 happened, it takes more like twenty years to prepare for something as big. Just think of the fact that New York is the state where the whole security and judiciary apparatus is under the thumb of Jews. Then it is a fact that from cartoons dating to the early nineties like Johnny Bravo, the insinuation about 9/11 was there. Call it preconditioning.

    • Agree: Alfred
  88. Bookish1 says:

    Sorry Fred after that last article of yours I quit reading your junk.

  89. profnasty says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Destruction of the Banyan Buddhas was the only truc I ever had with the Taliban.
    Religious dictatorships, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindoo, Jew, are much better than our Communist system.
    America’s erstwhile Christian political majority is best. (With proper racial boundaries.)
    Go Tallyban!

    • Replies: @Allan
  90. @obwandiyag

    That’s why the powers-that-be ended the military draft in the early 70’s, (with the Vietnam War still raging). Too many riots and mass opposition to being drafted helped to end that immoral war. With its all-volunteer Army, the White House, Congress, and generals, with chests full of unearned medals, are free to keep pumping up the bloated Pentagon budget, and start endless undeclared wars with little opposition.

    And, better yet, the pressittutes, in bed with the Military Industrial Congressional Complex, provides cover for their treason. It’s yet another reason why truth tellers like Julian Assange had to be silenced, and why Trump (“I love Wikileaks”) failed to pardon him.

  91. Trinity says:

    Wasn’t the Russian military in tatters before The Jewish Revolution in 1917. Demoralized, no cohesiveness, etc.? Hmmm, so the writer is married to a Jewess. lololol. “Gringas?” haha.

    Gilbert? Sullivan? With all due respect to the great John L. lets cue one an oldie up from the past. A sad song for sad times. No, not Sad Songs by Sir Elton Fairy John.

    Cue: Alone Again (Naturally) by Gilbert O’Sullivan

    Okay lets cheer it up, “gringas.” This one goes out for all the Afghans muh Israel will be taking in.

    Hey Negrita by The Rolling Stooooooooonessssss.

  92. Jiminy says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    My wife’s friend’s brother, who was over there in the role as one of those sas types I believe, asked my wife to join her and others in writing up some petition to the government about not condemning these group of guys. My wife had no idea what it was all about, like a lot of people who simply go about their normal day to day life here.
    After I showed her the news footage, she couldn’t believe that the woman was going to the trouble that she was, knowing that this is just one highlighted case. What else is hidden from us, who knows? I heard that they shot a retarded “ village idiot” as well. Apparently even the yanks picking these guys up were leery of them.
    Our government never learns though, as they promoted one soldier as a hero, a great man (killing-machine) who is now before the courts, with everybody involved hoping that nothing more is revealed. The last time the government promoted a war hero, during the Iraq invasion, it turned out that the soldier had shot himself dead in his quarters. Everything else was made up. Never let the truth spoil a good story.

  93. GMC says:
    @Alfred

    Good story Alfred – Yep some women can go from the Beauty – to the Beast – in a nano second. Remember what those old Texans used to say – If they didn’t have a pussy – there would be a Bounty – on them !

    • Thanks: Alfred
  94. turtle says:
    @Uncle Al

    Start building gallows.

    Nah, das Fallbeil is more efficient.
    The Days of the Blade fast approach.

  95. lysias says:

    The most dangerous weapons of the modern world are not nukes, but the Ak-47, the RPG, and the IED.

    Was it Biden who just said ordinary Americans cannot fight against the government without modern aircraft and nukes?

  96. AKINDLE says:

    Funny me, for decades all this faux of a US government has defended are blacks and illegal hispanics. What an anti-White embarrassment the US is. “We support Our Troops!” has been changed to “We support N*ggers!”.

    • Agree: Trinity
    • Replies: @Trinity
  97. turtle says:
    @sulu

    Now it is full of homeless that shit on the streets, [perverts] that [are sexually aroused by the sight or smell of human feces]

    FIFY.

  98. ricpic says:

    The hegemon is always hated. And mocked. Fred doing both to the United States is entirely too easy. But someone has to be the hegemon. That’s the way it’s always been…and always will be. When the Brits were the hegemon in the 19th Century they were universally hated. Called Perfidious Albion. Still, someone has to police the world. Looking forward to a Chinese hegemon? Fools.

  99. Jiminy says:
    @Alfred

    I see where Silverstein’s buddy Lowy had the good fortune to sell his Westfield shopping centre empire in June 2018, just before the covid19 operation went global. He must have seen the writing on the wall. Talk about good luck. I wouldn’t mind using his crystal ball.

    • Agree: Alfred
  100. True Aim says:
    @Phipps

    “Why does Fred Reed never discuss the Jews’ role in these Mideast wars?”

    Because Jews are the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human beings he’s ever known in his life.

    • LOL: Trinity
  101. Show me any city/state/Country where Bolsheviks control or try to, and I’ll show you a city/state/country on the verge of collapse by incompetence, corruption and pay to play racketeering.

  102. Jim H says:

    Here it comes again — the deranged American idée fixe about air superiority:

    ‘President Joe Biden’s administration is so concerned about US weapons [seized by the Taliban] that it is considering a number of options.

    ‘The officials said launching airstrikes against the larger equipment, such as helicopters, has not been ruled out, but there is concern that would antagonize the Taliban at a time the United States’ main goal is evacuating people.’ — USNews

    You don’t say …

    Bombing our own helicopters (as Raytheon and Lockheed Martin cheer deliriously): how batshit insane is that, with thousands of our infidel crusader troops camped at Kabul airport, totally surrounded?

    The notorious oxymoron of ‘military intelligence’ has descended to the two-brain-cell nematode level.

    Who wants to bet that the current unstable détente with the Taiban ends in tears?

    Joe … JOE … wake up, man. The red phone’s ringing.

    • Replies: @Half Back
  103. Adûnâi says: • Website

    Isn’t expat a euphemism, and the proper word should be immigrant?

    > “This meant that some women had two mothers, but this under the circumstances seemed a minor biological quibble.”
    Ahead of their time.

    Either way, it is fascinating to see an empire that had the material means to squash all non-Whites like the insects they are lose every single war one after another. Turns out, winning war equates to killing the enemy, instead of licking their nuts with universalist Christian love. Caius Julius Caesar is rolling in his grave at the whiteboi descendants of Rome.

    • Replies: @Thomasina
  104. anon[373] • Disclaimer says:

    Richard Perle. I interviewed Perle when he was advising Reagan; and when he spoke about “total war”, I mistakenly dismissed him as mad. He recently used the term again in describing America’s “war on terror”. “No stages,” he said. “This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq . . . this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely and we don’t try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war . . . our children will sing great songs about us years from now.” 

    https://www.newstatesman.com/node/192545

    Where is this bastard now ?

    • Replies: @lysias
  105. Trinity says:
    @AKINDLE

    Well you did leave out muh Israel = Jews intentionally or unintentionally . I mean Nancy Pelosi even said that America could crumble and that Americans ( I honestly don’t know where she took her poll) would still never waver on their support of muh Israel.

  106. True Aim says:

    Will no one think of the poor mercenaries who failed to catch a bus?

    And what about the poor pedophile drug-runners the U.S. set up as commanders of small towns? Will no one think of their sad fate?

    And what about the rainbow-flag-flying groomers? Will no one think of the groomers?

    But most tragic of all is the defense contractor sitting on his tuchas in his three-story home in N. Virginia – victim of a pay cut.

    How can Biden do this to them? What kind of antisemitic monster do we have in the White House?

    • Replies: @Jim H
  107. with the dying being done by blue-collar suckers from Kansas or the deep South, not by Bush II, Hillary, the other Clinton, Bolton, Bannon, Obama, Blinken, Biden, Cheney, Kamala, Trump, and the rest of those not required to fight.

    Never ending wars. I’m in my 70’s and I haven’t lived a year wherein America was not slaughtering in some far away place. As one of those blue-collar suckers, draft number 300 something, I even participated. Now that I’m older and have time and the inclination to read a little, not one of these adventures had legitimacy. They were well planned if poorly executed (by design) affairs contrived to keep the bankers happy, and there’s nothing like death to make the blood suckers happy. It’s a win win for the Bankers. It coalesces the dumb civilian population into divided groups, non of which every make any headway. This is called business as usual. So I asked myself: will anything change? Is the world so better informed today that we won’t put up with this bullshit anymore? Not a chance. War sells, and it’s very profitable. All most as profitable as vaccines. Maybe viruses are the new vector to war. Just think of it: there’s a nation with an ignorant democratically elected leader, one who threw out the NGO’s and who will not allow vaccines in. Could that be a good enough reason to bomb them, to invade them? I mean someone has to save the poor souls from their self and the Evil Virus. Why not America? Shoot and Jab, or Jab and Shoot, that can be the battle cry. No one gets out alive.
    Back to those who are not required to fight. Wasn’t there a time when princes and even kings charged into battle? Thinking back to the crusades and those mid-evil times. I believe they did, and some even died. I can’t think of a way to get a parachute on Hillary’s back, or on any of those creeps, and to then drop them into Somalia, or Yemen, but it’s a pleasing thought.
    So where is our military going next? Let’s spin the wheel.

    • Thanks: Trinity
    • Replies: @turtle
  108. @mijj

    To quote Mark Twain “He who doesn’t read newspapers is uninformed. He who does read them is misinformed.”

    Or I think it was CS Lewis who said “Editors are there to sort the wheat from the chaff. And print the chaff.”

  109. Rich says:
    @Bombercommand

    You’re being disingenuous, sir. It’s true, the US provided \$700 million in aid,but it was a massive cut from the \$1.26 billion the year before. A move that emboldened the North Vietnamese (according to their own commanders) and severely weakened the S Vietnamese military. The Foreign Assistance Act of 1974 then effectively cut all funding after December 1974. The US also failed to provide the promised air support to the South.

    Your theory about the reasons for lbj following up on jfk’s sending troops to Vietnam is almost definitely wrong. The reason was obviously to stop and/or slow the communist expansion in the Far East.

  110. Joe Wong says:
    @Rich

    If your “evidence” is true, the Americans will not run away with their tail between the legs in Afghanistan faster than the Tailban can advance, won’t they? Your “evidence” is nothing but lies and propaganda manufactured by the Western governments and media.

    Even nowadays all the news about Taliban in the Western media is nothing but lies and bad mouthing the Taliban and others try to help them to rebuild the nation that is destroyed by the American and their evil lackeys for their bloodthirsty motives.

    Fred Reed tried to white wash and disassociate the Americans from the war crimes, crimes against humanity and crimes against peace committed by their government around the world since its existence. You, Dr. X and the many other like minded Americans proved Fred Reed’s attempt to white wash Americans’ sin and crimes is futile.

    • Disagree: Rich
  111. The problem lies in the belief that we can transfer our culture to others, or that we even know how to “improve” our own.

    This is much like believing one can polish a turd, pick one up by the clean end, or make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

    It does not matter whether one tries to do it militarily, with bribes, or the kind of “uplifting” social programs we use internally. It’s doomed from day one when the social “scientists” take charge, whether they are in or out of uniform.

    You younger folks need to be carving out a plot worth defending.

    • Agree: True Aim
  112. True Aim says:

    Here is the right way to exit Afghanistan.

    Send in another 5,000 troops. Make it 10,000.

    Then evacuate the troops and mercenaries who are there now.

    Next, you need to evacuate the 10,000 you sent. To cover them, you need another 5,000.

    Of course, you will have to send another 7,000 to cover the 5,000 when their turn to leave comes.

    This will naturally take a little more time. Say, six or seven months. Two years, tops.

    All these troops will need day-to-day support on the ground. We will need locals to assist us in the “troop extraction” effort. Paid mercenaries. That will cost an extra \$5,000,000. Make it \$50,000,000 – pushing feminism and gay rights on an occupied population who loves us isn’t free.

    That figure is of course on top of the cost of the rolling number of “extraction troops” mentioned above. Heroes whose job never ends.

    This solution is brought to you by the same folks who brought you the problem in the first place, America’s finest defense contractors.

    • Replies: @Fred777
    , @turtle
  113. Wokechoke says:
    @Miro23

    The Romans obliterated the Gauls. They scoured South Eastern Britain. The pile of dead was enormous. Look at Carthage, obliterated and colonised. The death tolls were genocidal.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Francis Miville
  114. joe2.5 says:
    @Rich

    You’re just as clueless as any US imperial drudge fed American schooling and TV. Unable to understand the basic principle: occupiers are always the enemy, no matter what. No matter how bad the local guy is. As for your nonsense about “Had the US stayed, the Taliban would still be in the bush”, you don’t even have sense enough to ask yourself why us American murderers couldn’t stay.

    • Disagree: Rich
  115. Agent76 says:

    Jun 22, 2021 It’s About Time! Congress Votes To Repeal Iraq War Authorization

    Last week the US House voted to repeal the 2002 authorization to attack Iraq. After nineteen years and perhaps a million dead Iraqis, nothing was achieved by the war but death and destruction.

    August 12, 2015 “Lone Wolf” Terror and the PsyWar on American Public Opinion

    “The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society,” Edward Bernays observed almost a century ago.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/lone-wolf-terror-and-the-psywar-on-american-public-opinion/5468209

  116. Iva says:

    I think that withdrawal of trup was done because they knew they can’t win. Federal Reserve also thought that if Taliban will take over the country they will say that they are terrorist so they don’t have to give back them \$10B that Afgan gov, store in Federal Reserves. I just read that ALREADY NOBADY knows what happened with Afganistan’s gold. Just like with Gadaffi and Libias gold and money.

  117. SafeNow says:

    As an ocean lifeguard and trainer, I knew what drowning looks like. There are several signs, but the main one was always “failure to make progress, despite trying to do so.” As I think about the Vietnam and Afghanistan wars, I am thinking that the “no progress = drowning” signal applies to wars.

  118. Jim H says:
    @True Aim

    ‘Will no one think of the poor mercenaries who failed to catch a bus?’ — True Aim

    Au contraire, messieur, it’s ‘thinking caps on’ in Foggy Bottom:

    According to White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, “No flights have left the Kabul airport in the last eight hours.”

    “Soldiers by the runway at Kabul airport tell me that there are 10,000 people here processed and ready to go … but nowhere to fly them to because Qatar is refusing to accept more Afghans because they’ve reached capacity.”

    “It’s abysmal … someone needs to step up,” an official told her. “The left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.”

    Enough … ‘president Joe’ is going on TeeVee soon.

    Let me assure you nattering nabobs of negativism that all will be made pellucidly clear by Joe’s incisive words and barked commands.

    The buck stops with him!

    • Agree: Decoy
    • Replies: @True Aim
    , @Dave Bowman
  119. @Mark Humphrey

    Deep down all Americans know (the middle class & up) that their lifestyle depends on this supposedly invisible and invincible dollar empire. Today, if they profess innocence, they lie unless they are over 70 yrs, under-educated and find the internet a challenge.
    As for the third world they swallowed this hogwash for half a century. Partly due to the reconstruction of Germany, Japan and S Korea after WW2 and thought America had good intentions.
    Maybe they did then but after the small hat takeover this was put to an end.
    The world knows who wears the pants and who the mini-skirt. Even though the political elite might feign ignorance, their populace knows this reality.
    Allegiance to America is mostly by the Elite Political class, and in most nations, once America crashes, the cascading affect will be horrendous for us all but more especially for the small hats.

    • Agree: Irish Savant
  120. @Rich

    If the Narrative makes you feel better, so be it.

    – Here in reality, the last one to care about actual communism was the
    Good Senator from Wisconsin. The joos brought him down, and since
    that it doesn´t matter whether you are a monarchist, religious wacko,
    pervert, genocidal maniac, capitalist or all-around asshole as long as
    you are “good for the joos”.
    If not, expect sanctions, accidents and revolutions (in that order);
    if that doesn´t work, the Shining City On A Hill (gawd, what a giveaway)
    unfortunately will have to show their hand.

  121. True Aim says:
    @Jim H

    Those 10,000 collabo rats failed us.

    All those years. All those American lives. And all that money!

    Spent on an F Troop that folded in 11 hours.

    Leave these hopeless incompetent kleptos and their dancing S.O.s to their fate.

    *F’k em.*

  122. Uncle Jon says:
    @Rich

    Let me join the fray by expressing a few thoughts.

    America and Americans have turned into a circus with many clowns such as yourself, thumping their chest and still believing that you rule the world. Apart from the fact that your “cause” around the world has nothing to do with rooting out bad actors, promoting democracy, advancing human rights or any other faux accolades.

    In fact, Americas cause has become to promote despotism, creating terrorists and bad actors, pummeling human rights in secret or not so secret, so you can turn around and point a finger in that direction and say “see, they need us to lead and send in the good guys”. And get rich off of it in the meantime.

    What a was the mission in Afghanistan? Do you have a clue? Just to keep the Taliban in the bush? The only people that remained in the “bush” were the hapless American military in their bunkers and forts. Taliban was roaming the country freely and scaring the Mighty Mouse out of their wits.

    The mission was rape and pillage the countries resources, make an imaginary pipeline a reality and keep the Chinese from advancing their economic route. Terrorism , 9/11, Taliban, Al-queda blah blah blah is window dressing for gullible macho idiots such as yourself and the rest of the morons here defending the indefensible.

    So, in parting words for you, the MIC, the American military and the corrupt politician perpetuating misery around the world, I have two words. F. U.

    • Agree: True Aim, nokangaroos
    • Replies: @Rich
  123. Dr. Rock says:

    Great Fucking Article!

  124. fnn says:

    Another reason is that the American style of war recruits its enemies. Soldiers are not the Boy Scout defenders of civilization that so many like to imagine.

    The late writer of mostly crime fiction Charles Willeford admitted (in one of his non-fiction books, Proletarian Laughter) he killed about a hundred surrendered German soldiers in WW2. Also one of his tank crewmen had raped a girl and then shot and killed her. He then killed her mother since she was a witness.

  125. Fair weather “expats” it would seem. What a sordid tale.

  126. Rich says:
    @Uncle Jon

    I bet you didn’t do too good with reading comprehension in whatever inner city public school you attended. I’m not “thumping” anything. I’m pointing out that your taliban were hiding in the bush, afraid to show their faces except when occasionally they would slither out to commit an act of terror while the US was there. That’s just a fact. Sorry. I understand you hate America, but that doesn’t change the fact that the US was able to occupy and control Afghanistan for 20 years with relatively few casualties.

    Pointing out these facts doesn’t mean I supported the occupation, I’m just pointing out reality.

  127. As the jockhead rape culture military comes home from overseas in the next few years, and the pink-shirted Dereks lurch forward with an iPhone in their hands and smug look on their faces, how much longer now until the drone warfare and hellfire missiles and extra-judicial executions of dissenters gets deployed here at home? Why have pairs of fighter jets started daily low-altitude flights in a great big circle around the Portland metropolitan area since June of last year, when that NEVER happened before? Does anybody really think the DHS is not deadly serious about their latest “terrorism” threat assessment being directed at Covid and Election Fraud activists? And even if the corporate media change course at the last minute and show what’s happening, will there be anybody who listens?

    The violence we visited on the world is coming home, just as predicted by MLK Jr., Malcolm X, etc. etc. We are all Palestinians now. Peace!

  128. sulu says:
    @Gaylord of the German Gaylands

    Thanks. I knew I didn’t have the quote quite right which is why I added. “Something like that.” And I didn’t know the rest of it.

    Sulu

  129. Thomasina says:
    @Adûnâi

    “Caius Julius Caesar is rolling in his grave at the whiteboi descendants of Rome.”

    But some of those whiteboi descendants got very, very wealthy off Afghanistan AND Vietnam. Very wealthy indeed. As Julian Assange said, these were wars they didn’t want to win, just profit off of. Some dead Americans and Afghans? Price of doing business.

    And those Afghan refugees, the ones who showed loyalty (no doubt for a price) to the wealthy profiteers and politicians (the Ruling Elite), will no doubt continue that loyalty in the U.S. They will be used to bring the “ordinary” whiteboi descendants in line, fight them too if need be.

    Someone said the other day, “Why do they make such good shows that last years, spending time on character development, plot, but then end them suddenly and with a fizzle?” I said, “Because all they were after was the suck, the money. The ending they don’t give a sh*t about; their profit has already been made.”

    As the Ruling Elite are surrounding themselves with barbed wire fencing and armed guards, they’re quickly surrounding the citizens with foreigners who don’t know how to spell the word “Constitution”, let alone honor it.

    The Ruling Elite are landing the foreign troops to protect themselves, their wealth. They are traitors to their country. The Ruling Elite fed the ordinary citizens just enough rah-rah and propaganda to keep them going, but they’ve NEVER given a care about how it ends. It’s all been about the suck.

    When the Ruling Elite say that Whites are the biggest threat to the country (meaning “them”), they mean it. They realize too many Whites are waking up.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  130. Uncle Jon says:
    @Rich

    I am responding not because I think you can be educated or reformed. Since you brought up inner city education, you seem to fit the profile perfectly. Dumb, unworldly and opinionated. I bet you couldn’t point out Kansas on the map, let alone Afghanistan.

    Your facts are so far far up your kazoo they cant see daylight. Taliban always ruled the country and they sure do today. The Americans hiding in their camps, coming out for a night excursion here and there for 20 years with few casualties, is not what I would proudly put on a resume.

    Trillions of dollars lost for what? To keep Taliban in the bush? Are you an imbecile? I think I am talking to a 16 year old on a break from Call of Duty. Please go back and play what you are go at. In video games you always come on top, I’m sure.

    Good thing is the misery of brutal American occupation is over. So are the CIA’s drug trade, poppy fields and dream of taking the Lithium mines.

    Don’t bother responding.

    But you are right on one thing. I hate American government and the Jews who run it with every fiber of my being. You want to stay in their camp, be gone and dont let the true facts hit you in the ass.

    • Agree: True Aim
    • Replies: @Rich
  131. anon[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rich

    Where was USA hiding? Was USA engaged ? No it was not .It was hiding in the base in Colorado drone center, in the bases located in Diego Garcia ( how are those women children and elderly doing after being evicted and interred in tents or concentration campos? Are they wearing bikini? Are they enjoying their freedom in Diego or in Chagos ? ) or in UAE or Qatar . Taliban hides in caves . Is that wrong when US hides wherever it can? It hides in sky . It hides behind propaganda .

    —————

    By the way: “Senator McGovern is very sincere when he says that he will try to cut the military budget by 30%. And this is to drive a knife in the heart of Israel… Jews don’t like big military budgets. But it is now an interest of the Jews to have a large and powerful military establishment in the United States… American Jews who care about the survival of the state of Israel have to say, no, we don’t want to cut the military budget, it is important to keep that military budget big, so that we can defend Israel” .Neocon godfather Irving Kristol, writing in 1973 (in Congress Bi-Weekly, a publication of the American Jewish Congress):

    https://mondoweiss.net/2007/05/30_years_ago_ne/

    his son, William Kristol, when he was pushing–successfully–for the greatest disaster in recent American history, the war in Iraq. In The War Over Iraq, the book he wrote (with Lawrence F. Kaplan), Kristol made a similar point to his father’s, but in more careful terms.-Mondoweiss

    I guess neocon will dig up the corpses -American corpse to feed Israel.

  132. anon[114] • Disclaimer says:

    why is fred still published here? is unz a jew or what?

  133. Thim says:

    You just admitted to some felonies, Fred, immigration fraud. I know, gringo law and gringo nation mean nothing to you. You hate us, that is clear. So stay in Mexico and hate us from there. But understand this, we hate you, too.

    • Disagree: CelestiaQuesta
  134. @fnn

    I enjoyed some of Willeford’s fiction. If I find a copy, I’ll happily set it on fire.

  135. “… Many conservatives .. thought the war was peaches because it was about democracy and niceness and American values.”

    Actually, I and probably most other conservatives I know never thought the war in Afghanistan was a good idea for any reason. Most of us are not so simple-minded as to think we could impose such values on the Afghans, and most of us likewise thought we had no business inserting ourselves in other nations’ affairs as a matter of general principles.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  136. @obwandiyag

    Gee, I wonder if we’re on any lists or anything.

    Gee, maybe you didn’t know it, but you’ve been added to lists since the day you were born.

    Birth certificates, Social Security numbers, public school records, driver’s license numbers, Selective Service if your a male at the age of 18. You’re added to the IRS database if your parents ever counted you as a child tax credit. Doctor’s now keep a database of your visits and prescriptions and illnesses. Your employer provides the government apprised of all your earnings and taxes extracted.

    Use a credit card/debit card, make a deposit or a withdrawal, send an email, make a phone call, drive to the end of the block and back, scratch your nose, pick your ass and it’s all going into a database to provide a signature of exactly who you are. Everything from magazine/newspaper subscriptions, the books you check out at the library, the shows you watch on TV, the movies you attend at the theater. It’s all being recorded and cataloged somewhere.

    Hell, just drive by the local KKK headquarters can get you labeled as a domestic white extremist.

    And, this is just the tip of the iceberg. So, commenting on UNZ is the least of your problems.

    But, rest assured, in the near future, you’ll own nothing, be a mind blathering idiot like Biden, all the while still barely cognizant of the fact that your still happy.

    So, just accept the fact that you’re a chattel slave in a feudal system where your worth is determined by how much the system at any given time deems your existence necessary.

    • Thanks: CelestiaQuesta
  137. Alfred says:
    @Wokechoke

    The Romans obliterated the Gauls. They scoured South Eastern Britain.

    Just look at what happened when the Romans left. Sorry, I forgot that that part of European history has no written record. Societies collapsed and the populations as well. They had a “Great Reset”. 🙂

    The “Dark Ages” is a term for the Early Middle Ages or Middle Ages in the area of the Roman Empire in Europe, after its fall in the fifth century, characterizing it as marked by economic, intellectual and cultural decline.

    Dark Ages (historiography)

    • Replies: @Robjil
  138. Rich says:
    @Uncle Jon

    You actually believe that the “Taliban always ruled the country”? You really believe that? Hilarious. Do you believe the National Socialists won WW2? Did Robrrt Emmit chase the Brits out of Ireland? The Spanish Crown still collecting taxes in California?

    You’re wrong about Afghanistan, but that’s okay, we all make mistakes. Just as a bit of advice, don’t let your blind hatred get the best of you, it makes you look silly. The taliban wasn’t running anything except maybe the caves they were hiding in. Sorry.

    • Replies: @Uncle Jon
  139. Tom Welsh says:
    @Rich

    Rich, I think the difference is that patriots are willing and eager to kill their compatriots whom they see as traitors. Just think of the horrors that were perpetrated in France in 1944-5, against anyone and everyone who could be portrayed as having “collaborated”. Indeed, the American stereotype traitor is Benedict Arnold, an American who helped the British – even though he saw that as his duty because he thought of himself as British.

    The great general Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson is reported to have said of certain Union prisoners, “Kill them all. I do not wish them to be brave in the Devil’s service”.

  140. Alfred says:
    @Rich

    I’m pointing out that your Taliban were hiding in the bush, afraid to show their faces except when occasionally they would slither out to commit an act of terror while the US was there. That’s just a fact.

    No it is not a fact. The Taliban were in all the cities the whole time waiting for their chance to take over. They did not arrive in a motorcade from the surrounding mountains to occupy Kabul – because they were in Kabul all the time. The same was true for all other cities.

    the US was able to occupy and control Afghanistan for 20 years.

    They had no real control. The Taliban were going from door-to-door recruiting people and getting information from those the Americans thought they had bought. 🙂

    Your thinking is delusional in the extreme. The only way to control a country like Afghanistan is to do as the Greeks and Romans did. The US soldiers would have needed to marry local women and integrate into that tribal society. To live there permanently. The only alternative is to genocide the inhabitants of that country.

    • LOL: Rich
    • Replies: @mc23
  141. anonymous[284] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rich

    TOO superficial…YES American arrogance. BUT the Chinese were the main driving force behind the Vietcong (arms/money/logistics)…as are behind the Taliban. Nixon had managed to bring the Vietcong to the negotiating table in Paris (after bombing Cambodia). Then The TRIBE at the NYTimes/MSMedia fabricated the Watergate Scandal. Which Nixon never ordered, never executed, etc. Now Afghanistan after \$3TRILLION (from whom/ to whom??? sunk down the hole, many dead,. The Neocons met with the Taliban/Chinese privately to plan what???? 2weeks later the collapsed came..uh!!??? who wins\$\$, who benefits, at whose expense??? This is express clear Neocon/TREASON to the American Republic…so what?? the Neocons are immune/unmovable/petrified in the Dept of State…NOW they are pushing to invade Syria/Iran/Lebanon/Somalia and then what?? Its all part of the plan USA will become a Chinese colony..well it already is…Biden is NOT the president of the USA he is a senile, dementia, pathetic fool…Loui to Rick…round up the usual suspects…Rick to Loui: I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship..(China+Taliban)…Rick and Loui lit a couple of cigarretes and fade into the fog..(of History)…America (deplorables) you had been played \$\$\$\$…

    • Replies: @anonymous
  142. I’ve been looking for inspiration for new humorous dystopian songs to write about, and low and behold, I come right back to UNZ for the best inspiration a white Supremacist slash domestic terrorists could dream up.

    This new song’s title is ‘Graveyards of Inspiration’, a play on the title of this beautifully written article.

    It will be featured on my new LP ‘Let The End Times Roll’.

  143. anonymous[284] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    More like WE the (deplorables/racists) people of America had been played\$\$\$ and its keep going and goyim…The National Lampoons Great USA Neocon Adventure..

  144. tyrone says:
    @Barbarossa

    …and when they come home with their tail between their legs ,that means you lose.

  145. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:

    Consider the reality of this… many Americans are in some respect one way or another glad the Taliban won… admire their strategy/effort/brains…. glad to see whatever you want to call it the ZOG. Deep State, Globohomo defeated…

    Steve Seiler ran a lot of stories about the Olympics… anyone remember when you cheered unconditionally for the US team? And now? Who could cheer for a purple haired pile of bull dyke shit who celebrated a win with pretty much wiping her sorry ass with a flag and dropping it…

    And then you have one fucking party with their corporate masters incessantly shoving CRT/ Deviant Sexuality/ etc down your throat… successfully destroying your history and culture to be replaced with their horse shit?

    And those same mother fuckers are pouring immigrants into the country as fast as they can… then cheering on white replacement… and yes F you Ron Unz and Reed you assholes who support this

    So… here we are… a polyglot boarding house of nothing..

  146. lysias says:
    @anon

    So Perle believes in total war.

    Ich frage Euch: Wollt Ihr den totalen Krieg? Wollt Ihr ihn wenn nötig totaler und radikaler, als wir ihn uns heute überhaupt noch vorstellen können?

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  147. Fred777 says:
    @True Aim

    I wish this was satire.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  148. Albertde says:
    @Rich

    Yes but like the Israelis you pretend to be a moral force. Actually, you are steeped in hypocracy. That’s why. So either you are stupid or just bloviating, hopefully the latter.

    • Replies: @Trinity
    , @Rich
    , @Kapyong
  149. Allan says:
    @profnasty

    The Bamyian Buddhas were, in truth, unnecessary symbols of the religion taught by Gotama. The best symbol is the wheel (cakka), as mentioned in the title of the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta . (In Pāli, the c of cakka has the same pronounciation as in chakra.) So the unknowing Taliban were, in their own perverse way, acting in good accordance with an old command. If you see the Buddha on the road, goes the saying, kill him. I have long suspected that it was uttered by a faithful person who’d become disgusted with the fetish for buddha statues which, it seems, arose under the influence of Hellenism after Alexander’s conquests.

    This gives us a double irony on stilts. The Taliban did a favor for the religion of the buddhas while making their own egocentric religion appear to be crude, just like all others sects of Abrahamic religion. If the Taliban were exceptionally sophisticated, they would have preserved the Bamiyan Buddhas to cite as evidence that their preislamic ancestors were in darkness, that they had actually abandoned the teachings about the law, for which the symbol is a wheel, in favor of anthropomorphism, which Islam condemns. Instead of that outcome, however, the Taliban have big piles of rubble which craftsmen can use to carve small symbols of the law for distribution throughout the land. If there are such beings as buddhas, and if one appears in our world, I expect the new buddha to use the story about the destruction of the Bamiyan idols to great effect while preaching.

    All that does not exhaust the irony of the Bamiyan Buddhas. In ancient times, idiotic imperialists provoked a diversion of religious thought and piety toward anthropomorphic statuary. The diversion came at the expense of a symbol which can be used as a segue for teaching geometry, trigonometry, calculus, number theory, and so on, all topics which can be traced, at least in our world, to Hellenist science and philosophy. Since these topics are so important to contemporary life and culture on Earth, we must expect any new buddha to be educated in them, just as a buddha will have prior martial training, and to make use of those topics while instructing the faithful and potential converts like the women of Afghanistan.

    Fyi, the word sutta means string or thread, or something close to this, and it’s a close relative of sutra (Sanskrit), sutura (Latin), and suture. In scripture such as the one mentioned here, the sense of the word remains ‘thread’ even though the reference of the word is often to a transcription of a lecture by or conversation with Gotama.

    • Replies: @profnasty
  150. Agent76 says:
    @Alfred

    This is my favorite 9/11 myth buster Alfred.

    Sep 11, 2013 9/11 In A Nutshell

    James Corbett presents this 5 minute parody of the official conspiracy theory of 9/11

    • LOL: Trinity
    • Replies: @Mevashir
    , @Miro23
  151. Trinity says:
    @Albertde

    “Make Israel Great Immediately.” Wonder if Trump will mention that muh Israel is “the only democracy in the Middle East” tomorrow night?

    In all fairness America and Americans are taking too much of the blame for this one and Vietnam.

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  152. Rich says:
    @Albertde

    You must be under 25. Do you really believe that political leaders believe they are acting as a “moral force”? Wars are fought for many reasons, I can’t think of any that were very moral. Maybe for a couple days when chivalry reined and civilians were left alone? I doubt even those histories. You’re aware that the governments of the communists who were raping females from 8 to 80 in Eastern Germany were telling the world they were a “moral force”? That the British were claiming to be a “moral force” whkle they forced their empire on weaker opponents? Those are just words, young man, war is hell and it’s fought for gain. But there are lesser evils, I suppose. In most cases, not all, the US has been the lesser evil.

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Albertde
    , @Malla
  153. Mevashir says:

    This is a fabulous article. Thank you Mr Reed! You appear to be speaking from the heart because you participated in that Horror Story in Vietnam.

    Since I returned to the US in 2006, I have noticed that almost every American Church waves the flag and sings patriotic paeans to the Pentagon. Most churches have a regular prayer list for all the children of members who are in the military fighting in some god-forsaken place overseas.

    It seems that Americans have forgotten why our country was established. It was established by a violent revolution to break away from the British globalist Empire and to establish a republic of honest hard-working people. But today it has become hopelessly corrupted from its original purpose.

    The following is something I sent to a friend who lives in Chicago and is frightened by the horrific black crime waves. I think it is relevant to your article here:

    [MORE]

    America is a prosperous country that has been hijacked by Jews Catholics and fundamentalists for their different globalist visions. Jews use America to promote their globalist political and economic system. Catholics use America to oppose socialism and advance the Vatican’s agenda around the world. That’s why we were in the Vietnam war for example. And that’s why we opposed Castro in Cuba.

    The fundamentalists are the most Sinister. They pretend to Revere the American founders and idolize the American Revolution. But the American Revolution was based on breaking away from the British globalist Empire and to establish an independent enlightenment Republic. The founders never intended America to be a global Force or hegemon dominating the world scene.

    The fundamentalists use America to advance a Protestant Christian agenda. They are responsible for the folly of dumping two trillion dollars into Afghanistan and countless other conflicts around the world. All three groups — Jews Catholics and fundamentalists –lie about what America really is supposed to be. America was not established by religious fundamentalists, but rather by deists Freemasons and atheists who sought to set up an enlightenment valued independent republic.

    I also wanted to point out to you that a University of Chicago study showed that when abortion was freely available in this country crime rates plummeted because black women stopped having unwanted babies who would grow up in fatherless households and become criminals.

    Unfortunately the Roman Catholic Church and their moronic fundamentalist allies undermined this sensible program. Margaret Sanger, who founded planned Parenthood, was a devout Protestant Christian who promoted contraception and abortion as a way to keep down the population of unwanted blacks. The eugenicists in Nazi Germany had a similar policy. They also were Christians and they believed in euthanizing the terminally ill the mentally ill and the social deviants, all the people who torment me on the bus system out here.

    Unfortunately American Protestants are incredibly stupid. They ally with the Catholic enemies of our society simply over the abortion issue. (I use the word enemies in reference to the 19th century papal document Syllabus of Errors that condemns every one of the American Bill of Rights as a heresy and a violation of Divine Law!) That’s why seven of nine Supremes are RCC. The stupidity of American Protestants is why the Jews and the Catholics dominate our society. The smartest fundamentalist is dumber than the dumbest Jew or Catholic.

    • Replies: @Jack McArthur
  154. Anonymous[101] • Disclaimer says:

    Calling the Taliban terrorists is just silly. Thugs, yes, but not terrorists. Like your garden variety street Negro but with the patience gene expressed. And as @Alfred quite rightly pointed out, they weren’t hiding in caves. Well probably some were, as you do, but many lived in the cities including Kabul.

    The idea that terrorists need a conference room in Afghanistan to plan an attack is not just silly, it’s a delusion.

    IF all the Americans and Europeans can be extracted, a nice parting shot would be a dial-a-yield nuke or MOAB dropped on the Presidential Palace. But that’s just wishful thinking.

  155. Mevashir says:
    @Agent76

    Thank you for posting this video. It is absolutely devastating!

    Jesus told his followers that the Holy Spirit would teach them all truth. But the almost universal overwhelming and smothering ignorance of American Christians makes one seriously wonder if American Christianity is relevant to Him at all.

  156. @Selecto

    If we don’t get our shit together,we can loose another one and it might be our last.

    The worst thing that could happen is that the US “wins” (definition please) one of these wars.

    The right people won this war, \$273 million a day has made many people in Northern Virginia very rich.

  157. @Anonymous

    The BIGGEST terrorists by far are the USA and Zionazistan. Begin the Butcher even boasted that he ‘invented’ terrorism, a false claim, of course, but revealing.

  158. Uncle Jon says:
    @Rich

    “………. We all make mistakes.” Yeah, some more than others. The only difference is that you have no idea what you are talking about other than parroting pentagon talking points. More than likely you are a troll planted by them here.

    But in the hope of educating you a bit, here is a crash course about what Afghanistan is all about.

    Watch and weep;

    • Replies: @Rich
  159. @Jim H

    The buck stops with him!

    I’m hoping the heart stops with him too.

    • Disagree: Fred777
    • Replies: @Fred777
  160. Miro23 says:
    @Agent76

    Video explaining why the US itself is in freefall and heading for a spectacular collapse. Does the rest of the world care? Only insomuch as they want to avoid the flying debris.

    • Replies: @The Plutonium Kid
  161. @Trinity

    The real objective of Talmudic Zionazism is universal dominance. It is there, in their interminable musings and maunderings over the centuries, and in their behaviour since emancipation. Control the money, control the countries, if I might paraphrase a long departed Rothschild. And it’s like riding a tiger, a goy tiger. You cannot safely dismount. Or like the parable of the scorpion and the frog, which they use to traduce Arabs and the Palestinians in particular, but which is the purest projection ever seen. And, among the Jews, it produces many Nuttyyahoos, Epsteins and worse, for every Menuhin or Einstein (Judaic humanists are a fast disappearing lot).

  162. @lysias

    Perle is a true Talmudist. The more blood shed, the more his ‘God’ (ie himself) is happy. Until you run out of blood.

    • Replies: @Albertde
  163. @fnn

    There are psychopaths in every army, and every theatre of war. That is precisely why highly intelligent, perceptive, deeply moral, thinking White people do all they possibly can to avoid war – with anyone, at almost any cost. If that sometimes means thinking again, backing down, “appeasement” – or anything else to avoid the conflagration, so be it. To a high-IQ White person, the ultimate goal of lasting peace for all justifies – most of the time – the humiliation of apparent diplomatic failure. The humiliation is a price worth paying – for the benefit of all.

    Now try explaining that to the arrogant, White-hating, war-mongering, religiously-deranged lunatic Satan-worshipping Chosen, who design, manage, plan, bribe, coerce, force, fund and SOLELY profit from EVERY “White man’s war” which THEY have brought about !

    Time to change the rules. Time to put the cockroaches out of my misery – and yours – once and for all.

  164. @follyofwar

    Yes, and that’s why when the Iraq and Afghanistan wars went on and on (instead of both countries quickly surrendering as they were supposed to), sucking up more and more forces, so that the planned Iran invasion was repeatedly deferred and then cancelled, instead of reintroducing conscription the Empire decided to privatise its wars by hiring mercenary armies. It had the added advantage of not including mercenaries eliminated by resistance forces as the Empire’s own losses.

  165. @Rich

    No, the Forgien Assisstance Act of 1974 did not “cut all funding after December 1974”. You are getting your info from Wikipedia. The text of the Act is: “After June 30, 1976 no military assisstance shall be furnished to South Vietnam unless authorized under the Forgien Assisstance Act of 1961 or the Forgien Military Sales Act.”. That \$700,000,000 a year was plenty for ARVN, it was equal to what the Soviets gave Hanoi, and the NVA was lavishly equipped. That’s exactly what the CIA told Ambassador Martin. I don’t know where you get the idea that an alleged military aid cut “emboldened” the NVA, nowhere in the deliberations of the Politburo was that idea aired. Hanoi never intended to honor The Paris Accords, the NVA remained in the South and intended to renew the war at the first opportunity. It was that excellent agreement with the Soviets for Most Favored Nation status that kept Hanoi leashed. They couldn’t do squat without Soviet military aid. We can thank the joooz, Richard Perle and his Shabbos Goy Scoop Jackson for that fine agreement getting trashed. It is totally beyond me where you get the idea the US “failed to provide air support”. We were not permitted any military action ground or air under The Paris Accords. In any case we had provided South Vietnam with a superbly trained and equipped tactical air force, but that posturing peacock Nguyen Cao Ky totally failed in his duty, the South Vietnamese tactical airforce performed ineffectually. South Vietnam lost in 1975 because the ARVN was totally corrupt, badly led, and morale in the ranks was abysmal, and the NVA operations plan for the Campaign Of 1975 was superb. It was all over at Ban My Thuot when the NVA concentrated 3 divisions undetected against a single ARVN division. Failure to detect those 3 divisions was a monumental intelligence failure, inexcusable. How the DAO and the CIA goofed up there I can’t figure out, Frank Snepp at CIA was an idiot but Colonel Legro at DAO was a Marine who had served in Nam, inexplicable. Ban My Thuot was the key, lose it and the Western Highlands were cut off from Saigon, isolated. Next the NVA ground up the ARVN in Kontum and Pleiku. Lose the Western Highlands, lose the war, it was just that simple. Really, when Ban My Thuot was lost, the war was lost. Regarding “my theory”, LBJ could have BOTH reasons, and trying to stop “commo-nizm” in SE Asia was a great cover for helping the joooz. LBJ was real good at helping joooz, his country, not so much. Have you forgotten the USS Liberty, Rich?

    • Disagree: Rich
    • Thanks: mc23
  166. @Miro23

    Only insomuch as they want to avoid the flying debris.

    And hope to loot the wreckage.

  167. Fred777 says:
    @Dave Bowman

    If you think Joe Biden is bad, wait until you live under president Kamela.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  168. ‘…but the embassy was studiedly unconcerned…’

    ‘Studiously,’ ferChris’sake.

  169. ‘…And now the US comes home, leaving Afghanistan in ruins for decades. Use and discard.’

    On the bright side, it wasn’t exactly in great shape when we found it.

  170. Robjil says:
    @Alfred

    France has lots of great Roman monuments even today. It is a good sign that Roman rule had done some good in Gaul. The Romans really did create a great civilization in Gaul. Something that the US has not done in lands it conquered in the 21st century.

    http://www.civilization.org.uk/the-golden-age/empire/roman-gaul/

    Another major innovation took place in 12 BC when Augustus’s stepson Drusus established Lugdunum as the capital of the three Gauls by erecting a great altar to the Gauls at Condate on the other side of the river in the main town, which was to be the crowning point of the Romanisation of Gaul.

    Roman Gaul was a great success. The armies were established in two separate provinces of Upper and Lower Germany and this is where the excitement took place. Sometimes it spilled over into Gaul itself, but Gaul prospered. The civitas capitals were a great success and in the countryside there were numerous wealthy villas. True, Gaul was never entirely romanised. There is distinctive Gallo-Romaine culture just as in Britain a Romano-British culture was to emerge. Roman Gaul was peaceful — and prosperous.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  171. Bite Moi says:
    @obwandiyag

    obwandiyag————-There is a silver Afghan lining. If this debacle gets as bad as i think it will, Uncle Sam will be out of the nation building for the next 100 years. Ahh, well at least the next 10 years.

  172. FINALLY!!!!

    Fred wrote about something he actually knows something about!!!!

    Miracles happen!

  173. Hendrickson writes that the US needs to “return to its tradition of liberal pluralism, rejecting madcap ventures to overthrow the government of states.” The kind of internationalism Hendrickson proposes would be “founded on the old internationalism of the UN Charter.”

    Hendrickson believes a reorientation away from unilateral military intervention and toward the pluralism envisaged in the charter would best serve US national interests. The emphasis would be on diplomacy and reciprocity, “rather than claiming a superior role as judge, jury, and executioner.”

    Hendrickson’s is a vision of a foreign policy that would be pursued by the United States if it were run by responsible, empathetic, knowledgeable adults.

    But the US is not that country. And it has not been that country for a long time.

    https://asiatimes.com/2021/08/time-to-stop-giving-isolationism-a-bad-name/

  174. Jerrie [AKA "gm"] says:
    @Rich

    The afghan military was a time limited resource.It relied on the US for support; technical, logistics maintenance. Once the US announced it was leaving , better to lay down ones arms and take ones chances with the Taliban who one was going to have to live with anyway. They should fight to protect Kabul so Americans could evacuate translators ?Then when their ammo runs out they’ll be taken by the Taliban anyway? They should fight an Alamo? Biden wants his optics of Muslims killing Muslims as we high tail out on 9-11. Biden did not anticipate the backlash by vets who regarded afghan helpers as brothers .That backlash is the only reason that he is doing anything at all now. Why should the puppet regime remain when they were not even allowed to negotiate with the Taliban? obviously the US had no use for them now either? Ghani shouldav stayed to end up like Gadaffi? Now the US wants to blame Pakistan! They should have droned all their tribal border people!

    • Agree: GMC
  175. BaronAsh says:

    I think that woman on Tucker Carlson (Lara Logan) got it right: this outcome was not only anticipated but desired.

    Which begs the question why?

    Who wants the Taliban to be armed with modern equipment including over 100 Black Hawk helicopters?

    Someone who wants instability, indeed war, in the region.

    Well, looks like now there will be a war in the region.

    So we have plague increasing again as a new spike protein pandemic takes off.
    And we have war on the horizon.
    And large supermarkets in the US are into stockpiling.

    Plague, war and famine.

    We are in the beginning of a multi-year asymmetric war. Things will likely get far worse before they get better. Unless by some miracle enough of the Rule of Law in the US remains such that the current regime can be kicked out and somehow most of the military-industrial-financial complex be disbanded, something for which there is little discussion let alone any mandate conceivable.

    ‘Interesting times’ indeed….

  176. profnasty says:
    @Allan

    Yadda yadda yadda.
    Christians preserve all monuments, prehistoric or otherwise. It’s all representative of it’s time.
    Buddhism is as important as Islam or Judyism. Destruction of any historic monument, possible exception for Baalim, is abhorrent. Just so long as their people don’t try to actually move to the US, I support them all.
    Exceptin the Statue of Liberty. I hate that ugly thing. Send it back!

  177. @Fred777

    ‘If you think Joe Biden is bad, wait until you live under president Kamela.’

    King Log and King Stork. Well, Queen Stork.

  178. True Aim says:

    The Afghan Army folded like a cheap suit in just 11 hours.

    After 1 trillion dollars and 20 years worth of training.

    We didn’t fail them.

    THEY FAILED US.

    They stabbed us in the back, to be honest.

    They are total losers who destroyed our country.

    They deserve whatever fate the Taliban has in store for them. I hope the only flying they get to do is from a rooftop.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  179. Albertde says:
    @mulga mumblebrain

    No, until it is his blood. As long as the neocons are splilling soneone else’s blood to advance their aims, they are happy. Defintely, not their own blood.

  180. Albertde says:
    @Rich

    So you live in just another country. Tell that to your politicians. BTW, I see I was wrong – you are not just bloviating.

    • Replies: @Rich
  181. Rich says:
    @Albertde

    I hate to tell you this, but most people think their country is the best. Koreans, Chinamen, Dutchmen, Belgians, Ecuadorians, Peruvians and the rest. You won’t get elected dog catcher in most countries if you don’t proclaim loudly that you’re number one. Maybe I’ve just met more foreigners than you, but every last one I’ve known has told me he’s from God’s country. I think only people with an inferiority complex care if another country’s politicos talk about how great they are. It’s all part of the game. Human nature.

    • Replies: @Albertde
  182. Rich says:
    @Uncle Jon

    Mr Escobar is an anti-American communist sympathizer. I can’t really take anything he writes seriously.

  183. mc23 says:
    @Alfred

    In 1920 the British thought they still controlled Ireland when 70% of the people were just waiting them out.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Replies: @Alfred
  184. Adûnâi says: • Website
    @Thomasina

    > “…the Ruling Elite are surrounding themselves with barbed wire fencing and armed guards…”

    Schizophrenic lies. Haven’t you heard that a scion of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Prince Harry, married a monkey and produced monkey offspring? I didn’t see Queen Elizabeth II separate herself with barbed wire from that filth.

    Or is there a shortage of monkeys in the American élite? From Condoleezza Rice to Kamala Harris, to all the Italian or Irish creaturas such as Cuomo or Brett Kavanaugh.

    Or look at the US Supreme Court – John Roberts is Irish, Samuel Alito Italian, Clarence Thomas is not even human. The rest are Jewesses. Tell me more about how the Western élite are keeping their blood pure.

  185. gatobart says:
    @Rich

    “The US abandoned its obligations to S Vietnam after its popularly elected president was removed in what amounted to a coup and Congress was taken over by pro-communist democrats. If the 1972 election was a referendum on Vietnam, the people supported Nixon’s plan of providing supplies and air support to the S Vietnamese government overwhelmingly. He won by a landslide.”

    Once again, “Ifs” and “Woulds” don’t make for reality. Reality is made of facts and evidence and the fact is that the U.S. suffered devastating defeats both in Vietnam in 1975 and in Afghanistan in 2021. (BTW, wasn’t that fellaw Karl-something who once wrote that History tends to repeat itself, first as tragedy and then as farce…?) The fact is (another fact) is that I could even agree with most of what you wrote about Vietnam and about how the U.S. lost that one but that won’t change anything at all, it won’t change reality, History, it won’t change them a bit and that is my whole point.

    I was still young in April 1975 and I remember as clear as if was yesterday when I saw in the news on night TV that South Vietnam’s dictator Nguyen van Thieu had decided, against all advice from his U.S. sponsors, to order his army to withdraw from three provinces in the Central Plateaux to release some of the pressure on his troops stationed there (which by the way had been engaged in sporadic battles with the NVA, disguised now as the Vietcong, as the war hadn’t ended in 1973 but continued as fiercely as before but now between North and South Vietnam) and then I went “Uh-oh”. That was the “Vietnam part” of the one-two punch that made the U.S. defeat.

    As soon as people in the C.P. saw the SVA troops retreating, they panicked and clogged the roads with refugees and from then on everything snowballed. To make a story short (this according an Italian journalist embedded in the NVA high command, and the NV-CP, touted also as the only Westerner to have entered Saigon with the NVA the 30 of April of 1975, creepily enough exactly 30 years after Hitler had committed suicide in the bunker, Tiziano Terzani) when the leaders in Hanoi saw the road completely open to Saigon they realized they had a one in a lifetime chance of ending the war and taking the city in a few weeks.

    But opportunity was also rich in risks, mortal risks. It is true that it would have to take still almost two decades to have the case of the Iraqi army being obliterated by the U.S. Air Force on the infamous Highway of Death while retreating from Kuwait, so the successors of Ho didn’t have this cautionary tale as a reference but they didn’t need it, as they had already known of that the U.S. Air Force and Washington were capable. But anyway, after giving some sober thought to the dilemma they decided to push forward anyway, knowing that if president Ford ordered a full scale aerial offensive against the then advancing-in-the open NVA it would set back their fight for national unity for at least thirty years. A calculated risk that finally paid off then Gerald Ford announced in a speech in Tulane University the 23 of April that the “America had ended its involvement in the Vietnam war and that there would be no more military intervention in the country”. That was the part two of the one-two punch I was talking about. In the end that victory for Hanoi was cemented in two gestures by its enemies, one of them Nguyen Van Thieu and the other, U.S. President Gerald Ford. But in what that changes the outcome…? They won; period.

    My whole point, repeating all this, which I have already written in some other comments right here, is that even if I came to agree with everything you say, that won’t change a thing, that won’t change reality.

    Anyway, i came to this thread to see the comments and expecting a good debate about the subject but I can see that mostly this is about many people wanting to vent about events they didn’t expect, they don’t like after they happened and which they wish had never happened. And I am talking above all about Amerricans. For them this is a very frustrating development and that is the reason why they are so angry and passionate about it. But as the saying goes, you win some, you lose some. This one, you lost it.

    • Replies: @Rich
  186. anonymous[907] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fritz Todt

    Mel Gibson’s movie “Air America” explained it all quite simply.
    Guns in and dope out. Same as Mena Araknsas, under the Daddy Bush CIA, many decades ago.
    Wash rinse repeat for the Afghan debacle.

    Those wars for war profiteering were NEVER meant to be won but to be prolonged forever for the money.

    When Madeline Albright was asked by the 60 minutes lady on camera what she thought of us killing 500,000 children in Iraq, she replied ON CAMERA, “regretable, but necessary”!
    Naturally later walked it back with a re spin as usual.

  187. Kapyong says:
    @Albertde

    Yes but like the Israelis you pretend to be a moral force. Actually, you are steeped in *hypocracy*.

    Hypocracy – government by the lowest 🙂

  188. Smith says:

    Seeing the butthurt over Vietnam from americans still amuse me.

    • Agree: mulga mumblebrain
  189. turtle says:
    @the grand wazoo

    War sells, and it’s very profitable.

    “War is a business, so give your son.”
    – Jefferson Airplane

    get a parachute on Hillary’s back, or on any of those creeps, and to then drop them into Somalia

    How about, tell Hillary she has a parachute, and push her out the door @ 30,000 feet, parachute not included. Worked for Pinochet, and his biggest fan, Henry the K.

  190. turtle says:
    @True Aim

    Paid mercenaries

    No, no, no.
    Those are contractors.
    Please.

    Picture Bob Vila with an AK-47, and possibly an RPG launcher for the “really tough jobs.”
    Welcome to to this week’s edition of “This Old Third World Shithole.”

  191. Alfred says:

    In this article by Thierry Meyssan he lays it out the way the media in the West does not want you to know. I strongly recommend. The invasion of Afghanistan was planned and the troops and logistics were put in place long before 9/11.

    7 lies about Afghanistan
    by Thierry Meyssan

    The Pakistani Foreign Minister was murdered in his home in 2009 – because he foresaw the invasion and moved Pakistan towards China.

  192. turtle says:
    @fnn

    he killed about a hundred surrendered German soldiers in WW2. Also one of his tank crewmen had raped a girl and then shot and killed her. He then killed her mother since she was a witness.

    That’s OK. They were Germans. You know, the deranged monsters who barbecue babies on bayonets, and shoot 50 Jews for target practice every day before breakfast.

    It’s not as if the deceased were human beings, you know.

  193. @True Aim

    Of the entire sorry \$2.3T an eye-watering < 4% (!) went to the Afghan army.
    You get what you pay for – and you don´t want to know where the rest went.

  194. @Anonymous

    Maybe not such a good idea. It’ll be chokka with PRC “advisors” soon, if not already.
    Like the embassy in Belgrade.

  195. Renoman says:

    Great writing Fred!

  196. Alfred says:
    @mc23

    In 1920 the British thought they still controlled Ireland when 70% of the people were just waiting them out.

    My deceased mother was born in South Armagh on her father’s farm in 1917. She remembered all her life the Black and Tans visiting their house. Her only brother died in a “car crash” around 1965. He was definitely IRA. Whether it was an internal disagreement or the work of the British, I have no idea.

    Strangely enough, she was a fervent supporter of the Queen and the Royal Family all her life. I never understood this paradox. And she never understood my point of view either. 🙂

    • Replies: @mc23
  197. Alfred says:
    @Robjil

    France has lots of great Roman monuments even today.

    The fact that the French and French-speaking Belgians make fun of the Romans and the Gauls is sufficient proof that the Roman “occupation” was a good experience.

  198. Alfred says:
    @BaronAsh

    Who wants the Taliban to be armed with modern equipment including over 100 Black Hawk helicopters?

    I suspect the Iranians will buy lots of these weapons. They know how to maintain them. They also know how to get hold of the spare parts. They are still flying F-4’s. Forty years ago, when I was working at Tehran airport, the son of the Shah was flying one of these things overhead. 🙂

    Passing through Isfahan airport around 1977, I saw around 100 Bell helicopters lined up nearby. I think they were assembling them in Iran at that time.

    Bell Helicopter International, Esfahan, Iran (FB)

    Iran Breathed New Life into America’s Old F-4 Phantom

  199. Malla says:
    @Rich

    That the British were claiming to be a “moral force” whkle they forced their empire on weaker opponents?

    The British Empire to a great extent was a moral force for good.

    • Agree: Rich
    • Replies: @Alfred
  200. @Rich

    Rich, you need to brush up on the CIA-created and sponsored Vietnam war. At first, most of the killing of the Vietnamese by their own kind was due to the influx of over 1,100,000 mostly Catholic Vietnamese from the norther region to the southern region. This (forced) movement was compliments of the CIA, who were doing their best to create a full-blown war.

    Upon reaching the southern part of Vietnam, these displaced northern Vietnamese became “bandits” and would do whatever it took to SURVIVE. They had no work, no homes and no food; they were trying to displace the Vietnamese who had lived in the south (peacefully) for thousands of years.

    You would do well to read L. Fletcher Prouty’s two excellent books. You would receive an excellent education on the REAL history behind the war in Vietnam.

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @Smith
  201. Rich says:
    @Brad Anbro

    I think you missed my point. Mr Reed appeared to imply that people don’t kill their own kind, the opinion of Prouty’s that you cite just reinforces what I wrote. Vietnamese killing Vietnamese.

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  202. Rich says:
    @gatobart

    You make some interesting points, but what a lot of people don’t seem to understand is that after Nixon was forced to resign, the government of the US supported communist expansion. The Congress of 1974, as crooked an election as ever, installed forces hostile to freedom and sympathetic to communists. They voted to stop sending support to the South, whether or not some Pentagon officials disagreed with S Vietnamese troop movements, and failed to provide needed air support that could have stopped NVA advancement.

    Men of good will, and bad will, can disagree on different points. Too many folks take historical differences of opinion as a personal affront. I’m not the least bit angry about what I consider your misinterpretation of the Vietnam War.

    • Troll: mulga mumblebrain
  203. Dazed and Confused – Slater’s Military

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  204. Smith says:
    @Brad Anbro

    Yeah, no, no modern inter-Vietnamese killcount has ever reached over 1 million, not even during re-unification.

    By far the worst modern killcount in Vietnam comes from US – French – Japan.

    The North vs South strategy is a common divide and conquer tactics by outsiders, but even during and after the war, the south viets join the VC a plenty, and when the big fight comes, ARVN evaporates AND the president (Duong Van Minh) decides to surrender to north viets.

  205. JoeyI says:

    Holy heck! Is this Reed guy jewish or what!

    He makes it sound like debacles like the Vietnam and Afghanistan wars were not due to incompetence, poor planning and greed, but white supremacism.

    I’ll make a note not to take anything seriously from this bonehead.

  206. @Alfred

    Ooh I love Asterix And The Roman Agent.

    • Agree: Alfred
  207. @Alfred

    Iran is still using the F 14, one of the greatest aeroplanes ever built. I still have no idea why the Imperialist States of Amerikastan retired them. Even the F 4 is still better than, say the F 35.

    For that matter a MiG 15 is better than the F 35. A Messerschmitt 262 is better than the F 35.

  208. @Carlton Meyer

    Watching this . . .
    VietNam does NOT come to mind.
    Can’t help thinking how different the world would be if US had been forced to abandon Germany as NSDAP took charge of their nation.

    “Thank gawd the Nahzees were defeated or we’d all be speaking German!”

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  209. aandrews says:

    “American wars are all class wars, with the dying being done by blue-collar suckers from Kansas or the deep South….”

    Who Signs Up to Fight? Makeup of U.S. Recruits Shows Glaring Disparity
    New York Times
    By Dave Philipps and Tim Arango
    Published Jan. 10, 2020
    Updated Jan. 14, 2020

    COLORADO SPRINGS — The sergeant in charge of one of the busiest Army recruiting centers in Colorado, Sgt. First Class Dustin Comes, joined the Army, in part, because his father served. Now two of his four children say they want to serve, too. And he will not be surprised if the other two make the same decision once they are a little older.

    “Hey, if that’s what your calling is, I encourage it, absolutely,” said Sergeant Comes, who wore a dagger-shaped patch on his camouflage uniform, signifying that he had been in combat.

    Enlisting, he said, enabled him to build a good life where, despite yearlong deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, he felt proud of his work, got generous benefits, never worried about being laid off, and earned enough that his wife could stay home to raise their children.

    “Show me a better deal for the common person,” he said.

    … a striking point in a nation where less than 1 percent of the population serves in the military.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
  210. @Priss Factor

    iow

    US defeated by 80 IQ people.

    • Replies: @mike99588
  211. @aandrews

    “.. enough that his wife could stay home to raise their children ..”
    Good luck finding her or the kids still there when you get back from deployment.
    Particularly if you got disabled.

  212. Tulips says:
    @Anonymous

    The “nice” Norewgians hung the collaborator/traitor Quisling after WWII, even though they had abolished the death penalty decades earlier. The Quisling puppet government and the German army that saved Norway from communism and from British imperialism (that’s the invaders’ and collabators’ perspective) caused fewer Norwegian deaths that did the invaders and collaborators in Afghanistan. If “nice” Norwegians did that, then we should not be surprised if “bad” Taliban do something similar or worse. The moral of this history is “Think very carefully before you help foreign invaders.”

    • Replies: @Alfred
  213. @dearieme

    I want to steal “photocopiers” as well.

  214. @Rich

    Rich, what I mentioned about Col. Prouty’s writing was FACT, based on his first-hand observation in the U.S. Army Air Force and the U.S. Air Force. He had a very high Intelligence Clearance and was privy to the CIA’s actions, as well as those of other intelligence agencies.

    • Replies: @Rich
  215. @SolontoCroesus

    “Thank gawd the Nahzees were defeated or we’d all be speaking German!”

    The “Nazis” are alive and well, and still among us. They now call themselves “globalists.”

  216. Rich says:
    @Brad Anbro

    I’ll definitely look into his book. I’ve heard his name before, but haven’t read any of his writing. Thanks.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  217. Alfred says:
    @Malla

    The British Empire to a great extent was a moral force for good.

    Nonsense.

    It was designed so that the colonies produced raw materials which were processed in the UK. The finished products were then sold to the country producing the raw materials at an exorbitant price. Great – if you are British or a favourite (Jewish) trader.

    For example, Egypt exported high-quality cotton to Manchester and the Egyptians had to buy the very expensive finished cloth. The Jews in Egypt had a monopoly on the cotton trade and on the cloth trade. The Jews in Manchester manufactured the cloth. What a wonderful arrangement!

    My Egyptian grandfather, with the greatest difficulty and plenty of bribes, managed to get permission of the British to build a tiny paint factory in the late 1920’s – just in time for the Depression. Later, in WW2, the British were very pleased to be able to paint their tanks and planes with his products. 🙂

  218. Alfred says:
    @Tulips

    If “nice” Norwegians did that, then we should not be surprised if “bad” Taliban do something similar or worse.

    The “nice” Norwegians don’t teach their kids that 500,000 Soviet prisoners died building defenses for the Germans in Norway. There is not a single monument in the whole country to record this event. The whole coastline is dotted by these pillboxes and fortifications.

    The “nice” Norwegians forget that the north of their country was occupied by the Soviets towards the end. That kept perhaps one million German soldiers away from the landing beaches of Normandy.

    The “nice” Norwegians have forgotten that in return for the Soviets leaving their territory, they agreed not to allow foreign bases in their country.

    The “nice” Norwegians are under the delusion that they were liberated by the British.

    I could go on, but what is the use? A more idiotic people than today’s Norwegians it is hard to find. I mean, the chief of NATO is a Norwegian cretin who is promoting war with Russia.

    “A brilliant operation”: how Soviet troops liberated Norway from the Nazis

    The photo below shows Soviet troops raising the Norwegian flag over Kirkenes (far north of Norway)

  219. babu says:
    @Rich

    In the US the main problem is black on black violence.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  220. Albertde says:
    @Rich

    “Farewell Address, 19 September 1796” (Washington; this part was written by Hamilton.

    [MORE]

    “Observe good faith & justice towards all Nations cultivate peace & harmony with all—Religion & morality enjoin this conduct; and can it be that good policy does not equally enjoin it? It will be worthy of a free, enlightened, and, at no distant period, a great Nation, to give to mankind the magnanimous and too novel example of a People always guided by an exalted justice & benevolence. Who can doubt that in the course of time and things the fruits of such a plan would richly repay any temporary advantages wch might be lost by a steady adherence to it? Can it be, that Providence has not connected the permanent felicity of a Nation with its virtue? The experiment, at least, is recommended by every sentiment which ennobles human Nature. Alas! is it rendered impossible by its vices?

    In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular Nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded; and that in place of them just & amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The Nation, which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one Nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence frequent collisions, obstinate envenomed and bloody contests. The Nation, prompted by ill will & resentment sometimes impels to War the Government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The Government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times, it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition and other sinister & pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the Liberty, of Nations has been the victim.

    So likewise, a passionate attachment of one Nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favourite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest, in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels & Wars of the latter, without adequate inducement or justification: It leads also to concessions to the favourite Nation of priviledges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the Nation making the concessions—by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained—& by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom eql priviledges are withheld: And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favourite Nation) facility to betray, or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption or infatuation.

    As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent Patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public Councils! Such an attachment of a small or weak, towards a great & powerful Nation, dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.

    Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me fellow citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake; since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican Government. But that jealousy to be useful must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defence against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another, cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real Patriots, who may resist the intrigues of the favourite, are liable to become suspected and odious; while its tools and dupes usurp the applause & confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.

    The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign Nations is in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with20 perfect good faith. Here let us stop.

    Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence therefore it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations & collisions of her friendships, or enmities.

    Our detached & distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one People, under an efficient government, the period is not far off, when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when21 belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation;22 when we may choose peace or War, as our interest guided by justice shall counsel.

    Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, Rivalship, Interest, Humour or Caprice?

    ’Tis our true policy to steer clear of permanent Alliances, with any portion of the foreign world—So far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it—for let me not be understood as capable of patronising infidility to existing engagements. (I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy). I repeat it therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them.

    Taking care always to keep ourselves, by suitable establishments, on a respectably defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies.

    Harmony, liberal intercourse with all Nations, are recommended by policy, humanity and interest. But even our Commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand: neither seeking nor granting exclusive favours or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing & diversifying by gentle means the streams of Commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing, with Powers so disposed—in order to give trade a stable course, to define the rights of our merchants, and to enable the Government to support them—conventional rules of intercourse, the best that present circumstances and mutual opinion will permit, but temporary, & liable to be from time to time abandoned or varied, as experience and circumstances shall dictate; constantly keeping in view; that ’tis folly in one Nation to look for disinterested favors from another—that it must pay with a portion of its Independence for whatever it may accept under that character—that by such acceptance, it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favours and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater error than to expect, or calculate upon real favours from Nation to Nation. ’Tis an illusion which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard.”

    • Replies: @mulga mumblebrain
  221. You picked a fine time to leave Joe B.
    All those hungry contractors and an Opium crop in the field.

  222. Malla says:
    @Alfred

    Force for Good meant many things besides economics. If I am not mistaken the Brits, stopped the exploitation of the Felaheen by the Turko Egyptian elites. Anyways, as far as cotton and cloth, speak for yourself. Was not true for India.
    Most of British Indian cotton was consumed by Indian mills themselves and Japan rather than Britain. One would get the impression that during the early 1900s, that India was economically part of the Japanese Empire rather than the British Empire LOL. Many of these mills were owned by Indians (some by Europeans), typically with an Indian owner, British management and Indian labour. For example the Indian family owned textile giant Bombay Dyeing & Manufacturing Company Limited was started back in 1879. Many big Indian industrial families like the TATAs, Birlas, Bajaj etc… became multi-millionaires during British India by first getting involved in Opium Trade and later in starting huge textile industries. The rich Hindu Birla industrialist family funded Gandhi’s anti-British activities. Minoo Masani, a firebrand Indian freedom fighter (after independence and Indian MP), who later opposed Nehru’s socialist policies, well his wife belonged to the same exact caste as mine, UP (Utter Pradesh) Kayastha upper caste. Her father was a big mill owner making cloth in India during British times and believed that the British Empire was a force for good in the world which put him at odds with his freedom fighting son in law Minoo Masani. Minoo Masani’s son, Zaheer Masani is now a big defender of the legacy of the British Raj. He has written a book on his father and mother.

  223. Malla says:
    @Alfred

    According to renowned economic historian Tirthankar Roy in a recently published essay in the Economic and Political Weekly, de-industrialization was a myth, simply because factory production and employment had taken firm roots in British India by the early 20th century and grew at a rapid pace in the first half of the 20th century. “Between 1850 and 1940, employment in Indian factories increased from near zero to two million,” writes Roy. “Real GDP at factor cost originating in factories rose at the rate of 4-5% per year between 1900 and 1947. These rates were comparable with those of the two of the fastest growing emerging economies of the time, Japan and Imperial Russia, and without a close parallel in the tropical world of the 19th century. Cotton textiles were the leading industry of the 19th century. Outside Europe and the US, 30% of the cotton spindles in the world were located in India in 1910. Within the tropical zone, 55% of the spindles were in India.” The creation of the three great port cities of Calcutta, Bombay and Madras spurred India’s industrial boom, as it helped Indian merchants and producers to integrate with the global economy, writes Roy.

    As far as going to debt to London, capital was far expensive in India. For example when they decided to build railways, the British decided to raise the money in India and give Indians a stake in their own railways. But Indian baniya Capitalists charged an interest as high as 18% while capital could be sourced from London at a rate of 3%. Much cheaper capital in London. Even the United States of America, a country outside the British Empire, raised capital for its railways in London for this reason.

    During the early part of the 20th century due to World Wars, India’s war expenditure had naturally increased progressively. The British government has also been spending large sums in India for the purchase of supplies for various theaters of war and for the maintenance of a base in India for operations in the east. All this had been paid for by placing sterling into the account of the Reserve Bank of India. Against this the Reserve Bank of India would issue rupees for actual disbursement. A large Sterling balance in favour of British India had in this way accumulated in the metropole of the Empire, Great Britain, thereby enabling the British Raj Indian Government not only to repay or repatriate the whole of its sterling debt, but also to acquire the remaining interests of the British shareholders of a number of Indian railway companies. By the 1920s, India’s entire rail network was state-owned. Nevertheless a substantial credit balance in sterling in Great Britain was still left owing to British India by the end of WW2. The result was that at independence in 1947, the Reserve Bank of India held the enormous sterling balance of over £1 billion (£36 billion in today’s money). This money was to be divided in between India and Pakistan but that is another story.

    During Independence both India and Pakistan (United West and East Pakistan) were totally debt free. Orya Maqbool Jan, a Pakistani civil servant has spoken about this fact often.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  224. Rambam says:

    Afghanistan, another Jew/Phoenician playground to keep the goyim occupied while they pillage the national treasury and keep Jew/Crypto-Jew/Phoenician journalists employed. By the way, are there any goy journalists?

    FYI: Did you know the Bushes’ have the royal blood?

    Pray for the lost sheep of Israel? Shalom.

  225. gatobart says:
    @Rich

    What Fletcher Prouty basically wrote is that the Vietnam War was provoked by the U.S. MIC, over the warm body of JFK, to unclog the production lines of weapons manufacturers. To get rid of so much left inventory of war material produced since Ww2, specially during the Korean War. He also mentioned some island in the Pacific crowded with giant amounts of new, unused war material waiting for a good war to be put to use.

  226. Anonymous[560] • Disclaimer says:
    @babu

    Sorry but in the U.S. its main problem is arrogance and stupidity which you can see in the many posts on here and other message boards, that’s why our wars (Korea Nam Afghanistan Iraq Libya Serbia Syria) and our involvement in them are so easy as the indispensable nation, that the people just can’t wait to suck it up.

  227. @Albertde

    When you contemplate the learning, eloquence and common-sense of the US Founding Fathers, themselves exemplars of the rich elites of the colonies only, and the human dross that reigns in Thanatopolis DC now, the comparison is tragic, and farcical. We suffered the same dreadful descent here in Austfailia, but much more rapidly, from 1972 until now.

  228. @Alfred

    The Norwegian elites, as in every country, are the problem. The filth from which Quisling slithered, and which bestows the hideous ‘Peace Prize’ on various vermin who have served the Empire.

  229. @BaronAsh

    ABSOLUTELY, Baron! Jihadists are everywhere and always a product of the US Reich and its Saudi, Pakistani ISI, Israeli, UK etc stooges and lackeys. I rather suspect that the Taliban will be unleashed on Central Asia to destroy the BRI, and against Iran, which they hate for the usual religious fundamentalist reasons so typical of Wahhabists and those of that ilk.

  230. @Alfred

    I agree absolutely. The only purpose of the existence of the Brutish Empire was to enrich the people running the Brutish Empire. Any “good” they did was just accidental, on the way to smoothing that path to self enrichment.

    Always amuses me to see Indians trying to justify the Brutish Empire.

    • Replies: @gatobart
    , @Malla
  231. @Alfred

    Seeing that this is the same Norway that hands out the farcical Nobel Peace Prize……..

  232. Half Back says:
    @Jim H

    Sounds like a scene out of Catch-22 where Milo Minder-binder arranges for the Germans to bomb themselves as it is cheaper and more efficient. Well let me say here War does not profit anybody’s benefit and that does include Israeli’s. Notice their bombing ‘Gaza’ again. One thing this week was the statement by the Taliban that ‘god’ would help the Paletitinians, just be patient. I don’t know about that but the Israel’s should know all situations change with time. Watch out.

  233. mike99588 says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Hey, the Aussies had trouble with rabbits. IQ isn’t everything.

  234. gatobart says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    He is special, even among Indians. Show that guy a drawing made by an actual witness of the British executing an Afghan “insurgent” in the 1850s (I.e. a local patriot caught trying to expel them from his country) by attaching him to an artillery piece, his tummy against the barrel, and then firing it… and he’ll find something good to say to them and something bad to say about the “insurgent”. He reminds me of that bugler Peter Sellers plays in The Party. No matter how many bullets the courageous little Indian mascot of the British army had taken from the “insurgents” ambushed in the mountains, he still manages to come back from the dead and kept bugling on for Queen and Empire. That’s Malla for you.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Deep Thought
  235. Malla says:
    @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    Any “good” they did was just accidental, on the way to smoothing that path to self enrichment.

    What rubbish. The good they did was not accidental at all. It was intended. Well intended.
    As far as enriching the British elites including Jewish elites, that is possible.
    More like this is fact, any good the Communists did in their nations was accidental, it was all about power grab by the Communist elites. There is far more truth to that.

    Always amuses me to see Indians trying to justify the Brutish Empire.

    Always amuses me that Indians hate on the British Empire. More they lie to themselves about that aspect of their history, more they go into a hole and screw up. But that is how it is always going to be.
    The Congress with its lies about the British Empire had already unintentionally laid down the path for the coming of the Hindutvas into power. Or the Communists in states like West Bengal who screwed it up.

  236. anon[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Exc3llent summary of Fred “the brain dead” Reed.
    He is a lying pos who, like the jews he worships, will say anything for a buck.
    America has a dishonorable track record ever since patriots were removed by the Money jews in the 30’s.
    That is how a country ends up with faggots like the genocidal Eisenhower pos who killed 1 million german pows.
    It is also how America ended up with Obomber the drone-nigger who smokes crack and sucks c*ck.
    The whole world laughs as Jews.rape America of.its.last.dollar and useless scum like Fred stick their hand out to get a nickel.

  237. @GomezAdddams

    USA has —is–will be working with the wrong set of values

    “ISRAEL’s values”

    Can’t bring (((yourself))) to say it?

  238. gatobart says:

    “What rubbish. The good they (the British Empire) did was not accidental at all. It was intended. Well intended”
    “Always amuses me that Indians hate on the British Empire”

    What was I saying…? There he is, the little Indian bugler soldiering on for Queen and Empire.

  239. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    Yeah ghettofart, bring on the Gunga din, Uncle Tom bullshit. Facts are facts. Simple. Debate me on facts, bitch. A Tibetan or a Uighur who supports Han rule is a good guy according to you, why because the nation is Communist. That is why? The Baltic nations wanting Independence from the USSR via their singing revolution are “traitors” and “Western stooges” while people who bring facts on the table about the British Empire (or other Colonial Empires including the Japanese) are “Gunga Dins” and “Uncle Toms” and ass lickers. I have not come across such great hypocrite scum like you guys. I am sure all those trying to escape from Mao’s Worker’s paradise China to the British Empire in Hong Kong were all Gunga Dins? Right?

    the British executing an Afghan “insurgent” in the 1850s (I.e. a local patriot caught trying to expel them from his country) by attaching him to an artillery piece, his tummy against the barrel, and then firing it

    That was an Old Mughal method of execution, was used in the Indian subcontinent before the British even came to India. The British were far more civilized and humane than what existed both in India and Afghanistan before they came.

  240. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    He is special, even among Indians.

    Really?
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/hindu-sena-queen-victoria-islamic-invaders-1436717-2019-01-22
    Queen Victoria rid India of Islamic invaders: Hindu Sena celebrates death anniversary
    The leftist media is calling it “bizarre”.
    “In its invite that is circulating on social media, Hindu Sena also declared the 1857 as the year in which India gained independence in the truest sense.” Members of the Hindu Sena praised Queen Victoria, saying it was she who “freed India from the autocratic rule of the Mughals.”

    It states, “Britishers under the dynamic leadership of Empress Victoria brought hundreds of princely states under one umbrella and became one country under one law.”

    The spokesperson of the Hindu Sena said: “Leaders like Mahatma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru could raise their voice because it was not an autocratic government. They gave Indians the first taste of freedom by allowing local self-governance in 1882.”

    Hail Queen Victoria
    Hindu sena believes Britishers were rsponsible 4 the development of India & they threw Islamic rule out of our land
    As a mark of rspct towards Empress Victoria we r paying her tribute on her death anniversary on 22.01.2019, 1:00pm, @ Jantar Mantar, New Delhi pic.twitter.com/VJDNV1wWwv

    – HINDU SENA (@HinduSenaOrg) January 20, 2019
    “The Britishers did not destroy our temples like the others did…They gave us the law which we follow even today,” Mr Yadav said.

    He also said that the British imperial army strived for equality among all castes in India. “They (the British) formed the Mahar (lower castes of Maharastra) regiment. Earlier, in Bengal Presidency, only people belonging to upper castes were allowed to enlist in the army,” he claimed, adding “if there is a gentlemanly race in the world, it is the British.”

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @gatobart
    , @gatobart
  241. @gatobart

    He is special, even among Indians.

    But there are other Indians, who have backbones– instead of inexhaustible bad breath…

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/3145649/remember-maos-famine-forget-churchills-racism-how-west-colonised

    • Replies: @Malla
  242. It was intended. Well intended.

    Could it be that they “well intended” to send the Indians, Africans, etc to hell?

    https://grammarist.com/proverb/the-road-to-hell-is-paved-with-good-intentions/

    More like this is fact, any good the Communists did in their nations was accidental, it was all about power grab by the Communist elites. There is far more truth to that.

    Any non-white, non-Western officials acting accountably and do good in their countries make the Brits sick. “There is far more truth to that.”

  243. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    But there are other Indians, who have backbones

    It takes backbone to stick to truth in the face of popular lies.

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/3145649/remember-maos-famine-forget-churchills-racism-how-west-colonised

    He has a “backbone” because he writes bullshit you guys love to listen to. Firstly Western Universities are full of criticism for colonialism. Dr. Bruce Gilley who wrote a factual and honest piece on the good side of Western colonialism had to retract his piece in the WEST. Not in China, not in India. No civilization is as self critical as the West. So the guy who wrote that piece is a certified crackpot and not worth my time.
    What you do not realize is that people who talk positively about China in India are called “traitors” and “sell outs” as much as those who speak positively about the Raj. Now deal with that. Why? Because the Chinese, the Indians, the Islamic world etc… have only one mantra “We biz perfect and shit, our history is perfect and shit, everybody else wants to keep uz down.” LOL.

    Any non-white, non-Western officials acting accountably and do good in their countries make the Brits sick

    That is some of the stupidest bullshit I have ever read. Accountability actually tanked once the British left India. The civil servants became arrogant and corruption increased from about 1957.
    About the guy talking in that video, this is how most Indians would react to his speech. They would applaud him as a “hero” for screwing the “evul” Brits on their face but would also accuse him of being a “sellout whore” to the enemy China, blabbering bullshit CCP propaganda.
    But according to you anybody praising the British Empire has “no backbone” but anybody praising P.R. China is a hero!!!! He live in a World of hypocrisy and double standards.
    Wumaos and Indian Hindutva Nationalists are just the same, no difference. “Our nation biz perfact and shit, we are a unique civilization which is peaceful, others are evul and shit.” LOL
    For Indian Nationalists—– Indian civilization is unique, is dharmic, superior and uniquely peace loving. Not that different from Wumaos, huh. Indian civilization according to Indian Nationalists, is the civilization of “Jatamaye Jayate” and “Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam”. The West, China and the Islamic World on the other hand are ALL, UNIQUE EVULS and barbaric violent civilizations. And that is how it will be so for them for the next 100 years. Nothing is going to change it.

  244. Anonymous[162] • Disclaimer says:

    (with apologies to Gilbert & Sullivan)

    Response from General Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff:

    I am the very model of a modern Major-General
    I’ve information political, racial, and genderal,
    I can quote our defeat from every fight historical
    From Saigon to Kabul in order categorical;
    I’m very well acquainted with matters mathematical,
    I understand equations, especially the racially equitable,
    Because Black Lives Matter, and whites simply deplorable.
    I’m very well informed in all things Islamical,
    Unlike myself, I find that they are not very comical.

    I know our mythic history before the fathers of our founding;
    that before the white man came it was rather pleasant sounding.
    I know that 1619 marks the beginning of our history,
    and that the US is really a story of racist misery.
    I know that gays and women are historically oppressed,
    And that an Army’s function is to see that is addressed.
    In short, in matters political, racial, and genderal,
    I am the very model of a modern Major-General.

    [MORE]

    I understand the plight of those who are genderally confused;
    I understand that little people are naturally bemused.
    I understand our biggest threat consists of white rage,
    And it’s politically correct to say so at this stage.
    In short, in matters political, racial, and genderal,
    I am the very model of a modern Major-General.

    In fact, when I know what is meant by “trixic” and “Achillean”,
    When I can tell at sight a Mauser rifle from a Javelin,
    When such affairs as sorties and surprises I’m more wary at,
    And when I know precisely what is meant by “commissariat”
    When I have learnt what progress has been made in modern gunnery,
    When I know more of tactics than a novice in a nunnery
    In short, when I’ve a smattering of elemental strategy
    You’ll say a better Major-General has never sat a gee.

    For my military knowledge, though I’m plucky and adventury,
    Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century;
    But still, in matters political, racial, and genderal,
    I am the very model of a modern Major-General.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  245. @Malla

    Thanks for all of the great comments, Malla. It’s hard to determine what we’re running into here in the comments section a lot, lying, instigation, and envy, or simple retardation. At least for the O/P, Mr. Reed, it’s pretty clear that it’s mostly the first 3.

    From what I read on here, there a lot of people in the countries like China who have a lot to brag about, but there is still enough difference between the civilized West (what’s left of it) and their lands that they want to GTFO. Others have gone the other way, like Mr. Reed, and Jeff Stryker, and are trying to prove to themselves, amuse themselves, and justify their existence by writing about how evil and stupid we are back in the old country. How about just enjoy your ex-pat land and learn to talk to the people there instead of spouting your stupidity on-line?

    Then, there are those who get here, get all of the breaks that the American working taxpayers can unwillingly give them, and still go on bad-mouthing everything here. We don’t have a wall keeping you all in – how about take the plunge and GTFO.

    If there were a freer country that resembled the old US of my youth or that of Fred Reed’s reminiscences, well, we’d have been gone. There is no other option though. We are sticking and will do all we can to end the stupidity and/or build a decent place out of the ruins. Peak Stupidity is nigh.

    • Thanks: Malla
  246. @Anonymous

    Hey, #162, you need to apologize to John Derbyshire for lack of attribution, not just Gilbert & Sullivan.

    (or, is this your response to Mr. D’s great parody? Either way, you should mention his writing on this.)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  247. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    Please, give that bugle a rest.

  248. Anonymous[162] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    This is an entirely original work. If John Derbyshire wrote something similar, his thinking was entirely independent of my own.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  249. gatobart says:

    “Hail Queen Victoria”

    Whatever. BTW, speaking of empires (and railroads) nobody argues that most if not all of our entire civilization has been built by empires, yet empires looking for their own interests, their own end exclusive benefit and never ever pretending to be wanting to do any good for the rest of the people, specially the people had they conquered. That is true for the Roman Empire as it was a century ago for the British and up to now for the Amerrican one (even if the Amerricans do pretends and with much vehemence to do just that). So to say that any empire goes to a given country looking for ways to be helpful to its people is to live in a fantasy world, to be suffering from the Gunga Din syndrome.

    Now, we owe two of the most important elements, rather forces, of the industrial era to the British, the steam machine and the railroads. They invented the locomotive and the railroad and then they went on to build first railroads in every continent, in Asia, Africa, Latin America. In Argentina they built the entire network of railroads across the pampa, to bring to sea ports, mainly Buenos Aires, the meat and the wheat Argentina was producing, to feed the British at home sofreeing the young men to wear uniforms and go conquer the world). In Chile the first railroad ever was built in 1851 from, what else, a mining town in the north, Copiapo, to the nearest port (Caldera) to take to Europe the silver extracted from the mines around. And that is what was happening in the second half of the XIX Century all over the world. That is how empires work, that is how they bring progress. I think it was Marx who said it, that empires promote the advancement of human civilization because of their hoarding of all kinds of resources, material and human, yet working only for their own benefit, or rather that of their elite. And the U.S. of the post-war period is the best demonstration of that.

    As note apart, interestingly enough, the typical British gauge for a railways has its origins on nothing less than a decision taken during the Roman Empire when they had to decide if the roads they would be building all over the empire, including the British islands, should be made to fit a carriage of two or four horses. I don’t remember what the final decision was, but that was the determining factor on the gauge of English, and then world, railroad tracks, because when the British started tending their railroads they did it on the very old roads the Romans had built and so when you look at a railroad again take a pause to remember that it was a Roman emperor the one who decided its dimensions. That also had consequences on the design of the Saturn V rockets. As many of its parts were built all over the U.S. and had to be transported by railway to Florida, when designing them engineers had to consider not only the gauge of the tracks, the loading capacity of the cars but also the tunnels and bridges on the way, so at the end that remote Roman Emperor had something to say even about the NASA Space program.

  250. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    “He also said that the British imperial army strived for equality among all castes in India. “They (the British) formed the Mahar (lower castes of Maharastra) regiment. Earlier, in Bengal Presidency, only people belonging to upper castes were allowed to enlist in the army,” he claimed, adding “if there is a gentlemanly race in the world, it is the British.”

    I don’t know if you believe in this nonsense or if you are just quoting some random guy. Knowing you I’m sure it’s the first. This is a complete nonsense and if the British said so to the Indians then Indians have to be very dumb to believe it. Or it was just that the British were the greatest hypocrites in the entire world.

    The fact is, British society is one of the most stratified in the world, if not the most. Not only that, a social structure that is so solid and unmovable as the geological strata fossilized in the Earth’s crust. You are born poor, working class, lower middle class, and upper middle class in Great Britain and you will remain poor, working class and so on for the rest of your life. Even in Parliament they make clear to the plebeian masses that there are limits to how far they can go in their improbable way up, that the differences are there to stay, with their blatantly called House of Lords. There are of course a few ways to jump from one class to the higher ones, even to aristocracy and royalty, but to be able to use them you got to be tremendously talented at something: arts, sports, entertainment, sciences, politics, etc. Or also to be a pretty girl and marry a royal, a prince, a duke.

    If you don’t believe it, why do you think the Beatles were making so much fuzz about being ordered Members of the British Empire in the 60s…? Because for them it was the final consecration, the recognition that they were not anymore regular blokes like the guys unloading trucks they crossed every morning on their way to their Apple H.Q. And why did John Lennon answered with such a frank, honest answer as “To get out of the Sticks” when asked what had been his main motivation all along his career…? And why Sir Elton John sounds for them completely different from simply Elton Jones…? And why Dame Judy Dench…? Because for all those who have grown in the British class system, being promoted from the plebe, the working class, even the middle class to the elite, is even better than becoming millionaire, it means wide and total social recognition, now they are part of the respectable elite.

    As for the British military, I suspect this fossilized stratification must be even more pronounced. So don’t come again to me with that krap that the British fought caste discrimination in India or anywhere else. You don’t manage and keep and empire giving rights to conquered people, they could end up thinking they can even be independent.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  251. @Anonymous

    I am not a lover of musicals, #162. Maybe if I were, I wouldn’t think this was that big of a coincidence. Go to John Derbyshire’s post “CJCS Mark Milley—“The Very Model Of A Woke Postmodern General”” from one of his Radio Derb podcasts.

    Only thing is that his text is a bit squished up compared to yours here, for comparison’s sake. Check it out – that’s pretty weird. You ought to write him and see what he thinks of your version. I don’t have the song in my head, but yours reads pretty good. (I hadn’t read it before, because I really thought it was a cut and paste from John Derbyshire.)

  252. @gatobart

    Very interesting comment, GatoBart. Thank you!

  253. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    Here comes ghettofart, farting his pungent nonsense. Of course the British played a big part in helping the downtrodden lower castes, you moron. Nobody did more for them than the British. You have your weird twisted views of British people and like a low IQ monkey, fart around your bullshit.

    [MORE]
    At 9:04
    Hindi: “Angrez ka virod inhone (Brahmins) tab kiya, jab angrezo ne SC, ST, OBC minority ke logon ko (opressed backward caste), school khola, adhikar dena shuru kiya tha”
    English translation: The Brahmins started opposing the British when the British started schools for oppressed backward caste people (SC, ST, OBC, minorities) and started giving them political rights.

    Hindi: “Isliye Phule ne kaha tha ki agar dharti par koi Bhagwan hai to wo angrez hai.”
    English translation: That is why Phule said “If there is God on Earth it is the English/British”.

    Who is this Phule?
    From
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyotirao_Phule
    Jyotirao Govindrao Phule (11 April 1827 – 28 November 1890) was an Indian social activist, thinker, anti-caste social reformer and writer from Maharashtra. His work extended to many fields, including eradication of untouchability and the caste system, and women’s emancipation. He is mostly known for his efforts in educating women and lower caste people. He and his wife, Savitribai Phule, were pioneers of women education in India. Phule started his first school for girls in 1848 in Pune at Tatyasaheb Bhide’s residence or Bhidewada.[1] On 24 September 1873, he, along with his followers, formed the Satyashodhak Samaj (Society of TruthSeekers) to attain equal rights for people from lower castes. People from all religions and castes could become a part of this association which worked for the upliftment of the oppressed classes. Phule is regarded as an important figure in the social reform movement in Maharashtra.

    From
    http://egyankosh.ac.in/bitstream/123456789/20647/1/Unit-12.pdf

    British rule had brought to an end the tyranny and chaos of the regime of the last Peshwa (Brahmin Maratha Empire rulers) in Maharashtra. The colonial rulers had not only established law and order but also the principle of equality before law. The earlier regime of Brahmin Peshwas had imposed strict limitations on education, occupation arid living standards of the lower castes and women. The new rulers opened the opportunities in education and mobility in occupation for the members of all castes. Missionary schools and government colleges were ready to admit any student irrespective of caste origins. New ideas of equality and liberty could reach the moderately educated sections of the lower caste. Phule was probably the best product of this process. High caste reformers and leaders also had welcomed the colonial rule. It is not surprising that Phule who was concerned with the slavery of the lower castes also favoured British Rule. He hoped that the new government which believes in equality between man and man would emancipate lower castes, from the domination of the Brahmins.
    The British rule opened up new employment opportunities in the administration. The political power at local level was also being given to the Indians. Phule who had worked as a member of the Poona Municipality could visualise how lower castes would be able to acquire power at local level during the period of British rule and also enter the colonial bureaucracy. He believed in Colonialism, Cast Order and the Tribal Societies the benevolent attitude of the British rulers towards the lower castes and therefore asked for a number of things from them. He was not sure how long the British rule would continue. Therefore, he wanted lower castes to exploit the opportunity and get rid of the tyranny of Brahmins. Brahmin rulers used to collect huge wealth out of taxes levied on poor lower castes population, but never used to spend even a paisa (penny, cent) for their welfare. On the contrary, the new regime was showing the signs of doing good things for the deprived people. Phule assured the colonial rulers that if the (lower caste) Shudras were made happy and contented, they need not worry about the loyalty of the subjects. He wanted the British government to abolish Brahmin Kulkarni’s position, and a post of village headman (Patil) filled on the basis of merit. In fact, Phule would have liked the British government to put an end to the balutedary system which was connected with caste specific occupations in the villages. He asked the government to make laws prohibiting customs and practices which gave subordinate status to women and untouchables. Phule wanted Brahmin bureaucracy to be replaced by non-Brahmin bureaucracy. But if the non-Brahmins were not available, the government should appoint, he thought, the British men to these posts. He believed that the British officers would take impartial view and were likely to side with lower castes.
    He knew that education had not yet percolated to the lower castes. The masses had not yet become politically conscious. The high caste elites were claiming that they were the true representatives of the people and therefore were demanding political rights. This process, Phule thought, would reestablish the political supremacy of the high castes. Phule advised his followers from the lower castes not to participate the-movement for political rights. He argued that
    the Indian National Congress or other political associations were not national in the true sense of the term because they represented only high castes.
    Phule warned his followers against the selfish and cunning motives of the Brahmins in forming these associations and advised them to keep themselves away from such associations. In his Satya Shodhak Samaj, he had made it a rule not to discuss politics. In fact, we find that he had expressed more than once a complete and total loyalty towards the new government. He firmly believed that the almighty God had dethroned the tyrannical rulers and had established in their place a just, enlightened and peaceful British rule for the welfare of the masses.

  254. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    The Indian Independence “Struggle” against British Raj was an upper caste Hindu (including Brahmin) struggle with Jewish help from the inside. Those same Brahmins like Jews wrote our history books and blamed everything on the evul British.

    ” All battles for freedom are not on equal moral plane for the simple reason that the motives and purposes behind these battles of freedom are not always the same”.

    -Dr. Ambedkar, in his article “Plea to the foreigner”.
    Dr. Ambedkar=leader of the lower caste people, a people treated worse than slaves for millennia. Dr. Ambedkar also wrote the constitution of India.

    Could, Why Dr. Ambedkar not support the Quit India movement (of gandhi against the British), be something to do with this man? Bal Gangadhar Tilak. Who was he ?

    The first and strongest advocate of Swaraj (“self-rule”) or freedom from British rule was a Chitpavan Brahmin, Bal Gangadhar Tilak (1856-1920); also know as Lokmanya. He was known as “the father of Indian unrest” by the British.

    The Age of Consent Act, 1891, also Act X of 1891, was a legislation enacted in British India on 19 March 1891 which raised the age of consent from 10 years for sexual intercourse for all girls, married or unmarried, to twelve years of age in all jurisdictions.
    The Brahmins, with Tilak as their leader, were against this 1891 Age of Consent bill, seeing it as INTERFERENCE with Hinduism and a dangerous precedent.

    REFERENCE: Jai Narain Sharma-Political Thought of Lokmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak- Concept Publishing Company-ISBN 13:9788180695841)

    [MORE]

    Draconian anti-humanity laws practiced in India for millenia, were being challenged by the British. Continual amendments to these laws must have become a great source of worry for the Brahmins.

    Never before did the privileged castes rebel against any other foreign ruler so vehemently. In fact they enjoyed mutually beneficial relationships with all previous invaders and were even happy to give their daughters in wedlock to the foreigners as long as they maintained the social structure designed by their dominating ancestors.

    Only the British seemed hard to convince. Here is a list (not by any means, a complete list) of other practices abolished by the British, giving the Brahmins like Tilak further reasons why they should get rid of the Brits ASAP.

    1) On 16th May 1775, under the East India regulatory act 1773, Nand kumar Dev became the FIRST EVER BRAHMIN TO BE CONVICTED OF MURDER. Prior to this date the Brahmins had exclusive impunity from state prosecution regardless of the crime.

    2) 1795: For the FIRST TIME since the decline of the Ashokan empire, Shudras (lower caste Indians) were granted the right to own property by the British East India Company.

    3) 1804: British East India Company Govt bans Female infanticide.

    4) 1813: Slavery abolished by the British East India Company Govt.

    5) Also in 1813: Right to education for all granted British East India Company Govt. Before this only Brahmins and Kayasthas like me had this right.

    6) 1817: Punishments according to Varna (caste) system made illegal. Equal punishment before law by British Company Sahib.

    7) 1819: A ban was put on the archaic custom of a Brahmin spending the first three nights with the newly wed Shudra bride.

    8) 1830: Human sacrificial rituals made illegal by the British East India Company Sahib.

    9) 1835: Compulsory offering of the first born son of a lower caste Shudra to the river Ganga made illegal by the British East India Company Sahib.

    10) Also in 1835 on 7th of March, Lord Macaulay fought for and won the right to higher education for Shudras/ lower castes & untouchables which was denied to them for millennia and the right to learn English for all non Brahmins.

    Under this newly found freedom to education, the iconoclast JYOTIRAO PHULE became the first person to successfully complete matriculation becoming the most educated person from the lower caste ‘OBC Catagory’ and PERUNTHALAIVAR M.C. Rajah being the first degree holder of the Lower caste Community in India. [ B.A in Madras Christian College, Chennai in 1900 ]

    11) Untouchables were granted the right to sit on chairs by the British denied to them in the past.

    12) The British banned the custom of ‘sati’ in which it was obligatory for the widow of the deceased to be burnt to death.

    AND THE LIST CONTINUES …

    The abolition of these draconian anti-humanity laws was seen as an attack on the “Hindu way of life” and an obvious source of worry for the likes of Tilak. Can you really blame them for starting a movement to kick the British out?

    AT THIS RATE THE BRITISH COULD EVEN END UP ANNIHILATING THE CASTE SYSTEM ALTOGETHER!

    Who else, other than the dominant, privileged, so-called high castes, would have started such a movement?

    Should Dr. Ambedkar, who was fighting for human rights on behalf of the opppressed women, Shudras and the untouchables have joined the Brahmin-Bania alliance in the “Quit India Movement”, that was stepped up a few notches in the days of Gandhi-mania?

    • Replies: @Francis Miville
  255. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    Lower caste Marxist activist Arun Kumar Gupta

    In Hindi, if you do not believe my translation, you can get it checked from someone else who knows Hindi.
    Before we start, initially it was custom in India that a lower caste person, on marriage would leave his wife at the house of the Brahmins for sexual service. On the fourth day the women would be brought to the house of the rightful husband to begin her marital life. It was called Shuddhikaran or Purification. Who stopped this disgusting practice? Lets find out.
    In the first part of the video he talks how Brahmins and Rajputs destroyed Buddhists in India.
    But from 2:49 minutes he says
    Hindi: “Angrez, Shuddikaran par rok Angrezo ne lagaya”
    English Translation:The English/British put an end to Shuddhikaran (Purification).
    Hindi:”Shudronki Shaadi hone par dulhan apne Pati ke ghar na jake seedha Brahmanoke ghar sharirik seva karna padhta tha.”
    English Translation:When Shudras (lower caste Indians) would get married, bride instead of going to her husband’s house had to straight away go to the house of Brahmins for sexual favours.
    Hindi:”Chuthareke din hamare maa behene fir Brahmin ke ghar se geet gake bidai karke mhilaye laati thi”
    English Translation:On the fourth day, our womenfolk would get the bride back to her husband’s house with songs from the Brahmin’s house.
    Hindi:”Agar Log kahate hai ki Baap Dada yeh sab kari to hum bhi kahe na kari? Chod Kahi de hum. karo. Shudo Karao Teen din. Koai hai navjavan backward me jo ampe patni ko bhej de Brahmin ke ghar Shuddo karane ke liye.”
    English Translation:If people say that if our fathers-grandfathers did this so should we not? Why leave this tradition? Then do it. Is there any youth from backward caste today who is now ready to send his wife to brahmins house for this “purification” ritual?

    Hindi:”Isko hamare logonko aaj tak nahi suuja, ye angrej ka kripa hai ki usko roka kanoon banake.”
    English Translation: Our people could not stop this till this day, we are thankful to the English/British who stopped this practice by making laws.
    NOTE: Kripa which is translated is much more than thankful. It is like thankful to the ” grand mercifulness of someone”. Used for God like “Bhagwan ka kripa” Thankful to the mercy of God. Could not come up with an English equivalent in my head right now.

    At 3:30 minutes he says
    Hindi:”Bahu Betiyonke arje jalate they is jalane ka sati pratha ka rok Angrez kanoon banake kiya”
    English Translation:Women were burnt on the funeral pyre. This brutal custom of Sati was stopped by the English/British by law.

    Hindi:”Nahito agar nahi angreez aata, aaj bhi brahman sab jalwata’
    English Translation: If the English/British had never come to India, even today the Brahmins would have burned everything down.

  256. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    So to say that any empire goes to a given country looking for ways to be helpful to its people is to live in a fantasy world, to be suffering from the Gunga Din syndrome.

    But the Soviet Empire was different because they spoke for workers and farmers? LOL
    You again fart out your pre-conceived crackpot notions. Firstly the wherever the Roman Empire went they ended up improving the quality of life of the population whatever their intention. Liek that Monty Python scene of “What have the Romans ever done for us”. Secondly the morality and mentality of Europeans especially North West Europeans was very different from people in other parts of the World by the 1800s. The earlier East India Company rule was exploitative as they were made up of merchants but as Parliament got more control, more aristocratic gentlemen came who had a thinking and mentality far superior to most people.
    Also you compare South America with India which is stupid, you talk of an indirect Empire like today’s American Empire vs a direct Empire. In the direct Empire, the Empire takes RESPONSIBILITY and in the indirect system it escapes RESPONSIBILITY. In South America, some British (many of them Jews) bankers could get away with responsibility but in places like India or Nigeria there were honest Colonial officers. That is exactly why Wall Street funded so many “liberation” movements or anti-colonial movements. They wanted the honest European (or Japanese) colonial officers to be replaced by corrupt brown black natives so that Wall Street could go for the looting. Compare the direct American rule over Haiti, where they improved the place up Vs American Wall Street financial exploitative Empire.
    Except a few assholes, most British administrators were Gentlemen. That is the main thing. Gentlemen.

    The closing words of the Muslim history book, Riyazu-s-Salatin (1788) eulogized the English in India as ‘unrivalled in their laws for the administration of justice, for the safety of their subjects, for extermination of tyranny, and for protection of the weak. . . . And, notwithstanding their difference of creed, they do not interfere with the faith, laws, and religion of Musalmans.’

    Meredith Townsend wrote in 1904
    “That the English in India are regarded by large sections of the people as ” unaccountable, uncomfortable works of God ” may be true enough, but they are not despised, are not held to be bad, and do not, in the majority of cases, in any way disgrace their creed. To the bulk of the native population they are little known, because they are not visible, their numbers, except in the seaports and a few garrison towns, being inappreciable, but those (Indians) who know them know and admit them to be a competent people, brave in war and capable in peace, always just, usually benevolent, though never agreeable, and living for the most part steadily up to such light as they have.”

    More on railways in next post.

  257. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    In Argentina they built the entire network of railroads across the pampa, to bring to sea ports, mainly Buenos Aires, the meat and the wheat Argentina was producing, to feed the British at home sofreeing the young men to wear uniforms and go conquer the world).

    Speak for yourself. Things were different in India.

    Only a monkey like this ghettofart would look at that map and make a claim that the railways in British India was to “exploit resources”. The railways join most population centers/towns and Indians during the Empire days, traveled with some of the cheapest railway fares in the world, just like today.
    BTW the gaps in the maps that you see are areas of large princely states where British rule was limited.

    Beyond the railheads ran the British-built network of good highroads, speeding motor traffic where earlier only bullock carts alone used to creep and wallow. Other practical uses of the railways were equalization of prices, in opening of markets, or in development of trade with its consequent increase of individual prosperity and of Government revenues.

    The following figures as of the year 1925 are based on statistics contained in The Statesman’s Year Book of 1926:

    Mileage open per 1,000 square miles of territory in
    British India – 21
    Argentina – 19
    USA – 88
    Canada – 15

    Number of passengers carried per mile of open railway
    British India – 15,834
    Argentina – 5,966
    USA – 3,550
    Canada – 814

    At 1947, when India exited the British Empire, she had 53,596 kms of British built railways already built, post Independence Indian government added only 11,004 kilometres rail network after 1947. India’s rail network rose from 53,596 route kilometres as of 1947 to 64,600 kilometres in 2016.

    So is ghettofart telling me that even today’s Indian railways is designed to “exploit resources” too since about 80% of the Indian railways, the fourth longest railway system in the world, was already designed and built during the British Empire days? What powder is this ghettofart snorting?

  258. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    A lot of good things the British did in India had no economic benefits. Such as building colleges to preserve ancient Indian learning. Building the first museum outside Europe, the oldest museum in Asia, earlier than any museum built in the Americas to preserve Indian artifacts, passing laws like the Indian Monument Act to preserve Indian monuments, stopping Sati, stopping thugees even thought the thugess never attacked Europeans, researching pre-Islamic Indian history, indeed we Indians would not have known about our ancient Emperor Ashoka and details of his Empire without the British research in Indian history and excavations, we Indians would not be able to read our own ancient Brahmi script (and Afghans their ancient Kharosti script) without the British officers of the East India Company deciphering them, building colleges to preserve and promote Indian classical music, trying to protect Indian handicraft industries, building co-operative banks to give poor Indian farmers cheap credit and protect them from greedy Indian baniya money lenders etc…. These are just the tip of the iceberg, I could go on and on. Also British Raj taxation was far far lower than what existed in India before them. While Mughal/Maratha/ Sikh Empire taxes ranged from 33 to 50%, British Raj taxation rate was a slow as 5 to 15%. 70% of Mughal Indian GDP was owned by just 600 to 700 elite families. Poverty in India was because of pre-British period exploitation, British period was the start of recovery of India which is still going on.

  259. @Malla

    I’m learning a lot of history from both of you guys, so thanks for the discussion here. I didn’t know the half of this stuff before, but here’s what I do know:

    American academia has been teaching Americans and students throughout the world that Colonialism was BAD BAD BAD since the middle 1960s. That teaching is just a small part of the agenda of the American internal Communists who have been destroying American traditional society all these years. One thing important for them is to revise history. American, Americans, and Westerners in general have been made the bad guy in all things. (Fred Reed is no active Communist, but he’s one of the useful idiots in this regard.)

    I agree that the British Empire was a force for good throughout the world. The rest of you can come up with some decent points about the downsides here and there, or you can spout your lies whether you even know they are lies or not. It’s great to have stalwart guys like Malla hear sticking to the truth. Each of us must find our own way to the truth, but we have to wade through the anti-Western Commies and their useful idiots to get there, like a British roadbuilding crew cutting through the jungle in old India.

    Now, for a little music to go with this post, one couldn’t do better than this Kinks tune, from a live album.

    Listen to the music, you anti-Western assholes, with your envy and deception. Just listen and otherwise shut the fuck up. Could your people make music like this? Nah, you know better, so shut the fuck up.

    • Replies: @gatobart
    , @Malla
  260. Thank you Fred for reminding me how old we’ve become. I’ve enjoyed your columns since 1973, first in Army/AF Times as a very junior Captain at the Pentagon, later in more senior positions, then through another 16 yrs in civilian service and finally at your various websites. An abiding theme in the columns that strikes home particularly for me is, “War never Changes. Real life never changes.” Call me a cynic, I guess it fits. We fail to remember history and will repeat it. Thanks for the 46 years of tragedy, comedy, and truth.

  261. Fred Reed is always on the money and eloquent. Bless him.

  262. DrCiber says:

    Thanks Fred. Good read as usual and the authenticity shows. Keep ’em comin’.

  263. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    As the ghost Japanese kid said to Wendy in Scary Movie 4, you have mistaken me for someone who gives a sheet. I don’t really care much about Indian history, not because I am a rube but simply because in the first place there has never been any relation whatsoever, historical, political, cultural or even philosophical, between Latin America and your country. As a matter of fact if you had never existed it wouldn’t make much of a difference for us. Not even in the cuisine or in sports or music we see your influence around us. Maybe in the esoteric sciences and all that, but that is not an exclusive Indian product. There are a LOT of things from Asia that fascinate our people, especially from the Chinese and the Japanese, even from the Vietnamese, but I don’t even see Indian restaurants when I am in a South American city. The second factor is that, contrary to your delirious expectations, India is nowhere near to become a world superpower, let alone THE world superpower, as all bets are on China and if someone advises you to learn a new language that will be Mandarin or Cantonese rather than Hindu. Just like it was English decades ago and then German. That is why I don’t see much interest in learning more about your country. But this is nothing personal. A couple of decades ago I was enthused about German and took some courses, it’s pretty easy BTW, but then I dropped it as I realized Germany will never become a global power. They irremediably lost that chance when Hitler invaded the USSR.

    Now, I don’t need anyway your essay to understand something that I already wrote, BTW, so even if I took the bother to spend half an hour or more reading it won’t change a bit what my point is and that is simply that:

    Empires are a mixed blessing, if you want to call them that, being overly generous. On one hand they not only hoard as many resources, human and material, as they can as the result of plunder by war and military conquests but also, on top of that, they act like global magnets attracting talent, smarts, experience, knowledge from all over. The best example of course is given by Amerrica before, during and post WW2 when many notables from every walk of life crossed the Atlantic to bring all they got to throw it into the mix: Einstein, Fermi, Von Braun, Max Ernst, Edward Teller, Salvador Dali and last but not least, Hedy Lamarr, an Austrian beauty who not only was a great actress but also a Tesla-level scientific genius who dwarfs any random Bill Gates and to whom we owe our Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, GPS, cordless phones and cell phones. In fact many of the great movies of the war and postwar period were made by European war refugees, Casablanca in first place, which cast includes just one single Amerrican-born, the lead. Most of what Amerrica reached as scientific & technological achievements after the war was either due to European talent coming to her shores or simply European intellectual property stolen from them.

    I repeat once more, this is not about India; this is about empire, about empires, that is why I don’t really care about your essay. Empires can do a lot of good and a lot of bad at the same time, and they usually do both, while looking only after themselves, I mean their elites. And that is how civilization forges ahead, period. They are not boy scout brigades or charity organizations as you think of the British one.

    For the British Empire India was just one more of its colonies, no matter if the most important, so the British military kept not only busy fighting rebels and insurgents in India itself but also used to draft Indians by the thousand or tens or hundreds of thousands for their own wars. How many Indians died or were mutilated fighting for King and Empire during WW2 and how many among the surviving ended up receiving decent war pensions and adequate medical care and other services after all …? That is something I would like you to tell me even if I don’t have any illusions about those lucky Indians, if there was ever any, considering that the US government has never been known to be much of a Santa Claus to its own war vets. We can mention that tragic toll on Vietnam and Gulf Vets without even the need to go dig further into the past and start talking about July, 28, 1932 in Washington:

    “On July 28, 1932 the U.S. government attacked World War I veterans with tanks, bayonets, and tear gas, under the leadership of textbook heroes Douglas MacArthur, George Patton, and Dwight D. Eisenhower. The WWI vets were part of a Bonus Army who came to Washington, D.C. to make a demand for their promised wartime bonuses”
    Wikipedia.

    So, are you going to tell me that Indian veterans of both world wars serving the British Empire, were treated anything better than these pure bread White Yankees by their own government when they had the nerve to ask for what it had been promised to them…? Well if that is not enough to make you understand how an Empire works and how it treats its own people (badly most of the times) let alone its colonials and the conquered peoples, then nothing will. So keep thinking the British Empire brought Heavens on Earth to India and that the dark skinned, stupid, blind Indians were the ones who spoiled it all.

    Oh, BTW, how come a man who is such a fanatical adept of “Esoteric Nazism” and such a fan of Hitler, Nazism and Nazis in general, like that Chilean dingbat you worship and which videos you peddle all over UR, deals so well with the fact that many, maybe millions, of his own countrymen have died fighting for the British Empire…? Pretty big contradiction there.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  264. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    “The railways join most population centers/towns and Indians during the Empire days, traveled with some of the cheapest railway fares in the world, just like today”

    You mean they travelled also like this at that time…?

    Wow, no wonder those fares were so cheap. That certainly explain the big Number of passengers carried per mile of open railway.

    BTW, I have never been in Argentina but I am sure they don’t travel like that way anyway. As for Chile, no, not even during public transit strikes. As they say back there, lo barato cuesta caro. Cheap is pretty expensive.

    In any case, no other than Wikipedia tells me I am completely right and you wrong: that India was no exception to the rule as your wet dreams tell you and it says it loud and clear:

    “Why did the British build railways in india…?”

    “The British introduced the railway system in India because they felt the need for a fast and quick transportation to carry the raw materials across the country easily which was needed by them”.

    and then again:

    “The goals of the plan to introduce railways were to lower transport costs and to give English merchants easier access to raw cotton from India. Also, the railway would simultaneously open the Indian market to British manufactured products such as cotton textiles”.

    Just like in Chile, Argentina and the rest of the world, to have quick access to local raw materials to take to the metropolis and to send back British manufactured products. But noooo, India has to be the exception for professor Malla.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  265. @Malla

    It takes backbone to stick to truth in the face of popular lies.

    This is what he said about the Western societies– not just in universities:

    This is not accidental. It is a selective retelling of history that enables the West to maintain its global dominance through the indoctrination of Westerners and non-Westerners alike – or as the brilliant French-West Indian political philosopher Frantz Fanon called it: colonisation of the mind.

    He has the backbone to stick to that truth.

    Firstly Western Universities are full of criticism for colonialism. Dr. Bruce Gilley who wrote a factual and honest piece on the good side of Western colonialism had to retract his piece in the WEST.

    If what Gilley wrote was right, then the rest had no backbones. If he was wrong, it only gave support to Chandran Nair’s argument.

    Now, which does you prefer?

    What you do not realize is that people who talk positively about China in India are called “traitors” and “sell outs” as much as those who speak positively about the Raj.

    How is that different from those of the white West’s Propaganda Industry, who blame every ill of the West’s own on either the Chinese or the Jews?!

    Accountability actually tanked once the British left India. The civil servants became arrogant and corruption increased from about 1957.

    But that doesn’t stop the West keep raining India with praise for being the “biggest demoncrazy in the world”, etc. I am sure that such praise is “well intended”– right up to the gate of Hell!

    About the guy talking in that video, this is how most Indians would react to his speech. They would applaud him as a “hero” for screwing the “evul” Brits on their face but would also accuse him of being a “sellout whore” to the enemy China, blabbering bullshit CCP propaganda.

    My issue is with the white Brit, who sneered at that guy’s suggestion that the current Chinese officials are made accountable, which is true. How does that make him different from your fellow Indians whom you so despise? Merely because he is WHITE?!!!

    For Indian Nationalists—– Indian civilization is unique, is dharmic, superior and uniquely peace loving. Not that different from Wumaos, huh…

    You are clearly BLIND to the SAME claims from the white nationalists, or even the jap nationalists when jap power was at its height. How are they different from those of the Indian and Chinese nationalists?

    At least, the “Wumaos” and Indian nationalisls do not attempt to ram their own systems down other peoples’ throats!

    Reading your piece reminds me of the way some house servants talked:

    https://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/mmt/mxp/speeches/mxa17.html

    • Replies: @Malla
  266. @Malla

    You mentioned somewhere that you admired Savitri Devi. Wasn’t she opposed to the British Empire and supported Indian independence? She was also a spy for the Japanese during WWII. If you had been around at the time who would you have supported: the Brits or the Japs? You have something positive to say about both empires so you would have been in a bit of a quandary.

  267. Alfred says:
    @Malla

    I don’t know much about India. I do know that many tea estates were owned by the British. At school, in England, in the 1960’s, I knew a boy whose family owned a tea estate in India. At that time, money could not be moved out. He invited his friends for luxurious holidays in India to help him use up some of his local otherwise wasted money. 🙂

    However, what I said about Egypt was true for all the rest of Africa. You can be sure of that.

    Today, the European Union is carrying out policies that lead to similar results. All the canned tomatoes in places like Ghana apparently come from Italy.

    Almost all cheeses and much else in Ukrainian supermarkets come from the EU – with nothing going in the other direction. That is despite Ukraine being the poorest country in Europe – with the lowest salaries – and having the best agricultural land.

  268. gatobart says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “I agree that the British Empire was a force for good throughout the world. The rest of you can come up with some decent points about the downsides here and there, or you can spout your lies whether you even know they are lies or not”.

    I think you are splitting hairs there, trying to give an unequivocal and simple categorization (good or bad) to an empire that played such a pivotal role in the development of the Modern World.

    From the POV of History, of course the British Empire was force for great good in the sense that brought us to the modern age, the industrial age. In just half a century it gave mankind far more in sciences and technology, more improvements in our quality of life than all the empires of the past combined had given us in 6000 years of human civilization. It gave us the steam machine and even more important than that, the knowledge and the control of electromagnetic waves, which are the bases for everything we have gotten at our present age, from artificial lighting to TV programming to internet to cellphones. The four Maxwell equations are probably the most important four lines of text even written in Human History, the bases of our entire XX and XXI century technological civilization. All that coming from just a couple of islands in the North Sea, an unique revolution that started there and spread all over the world. I find that admirable.

    On the other hand, if we are gonna be thorough, we can’t ignore all the pain and suffering inflicted by the same British Empire on the rest of the world, in Asia, Africa, even in its own backyard in Ireland. That is part of the same story, something that cannot be ignored or diminished. The piracy on the seven seas, the slave trading, the drug trafficking (about which the Chinese have bitter memories of their own), the conspiracies against foreign government and countries, especially those of Czarist Russia and the Kaiser’s Germany, all that must be included in the same package with the positive. That is reality, how things truly happened and what History will say in the end, just like we use to do when studying the Roman Empire.

    Now, if this serves as any consolation, I am sure that History will be far more positive to the British Empire than it will ever be for the U.S. one. While the immense contribution of Britannia to the advancement of human society will always be recognized for all its worth, as I said, Amerrica will be mostly remembered for the state of permanent war it used to live in and for having kept the rest of the world under fear and anxiety with the threat of nuclear Apocalypse from the very moment it got the A-bomb; for its casual and senseless use of the most lethal weapons ever invented by Man. I think that a hundred years for now the U.S. will be mostly remembered for having given us a state of permanent war, for Hollywood movies and for having taken credit for a lot of things that others gave to it or that simply stole from others, like the tens of thousands of patents plundered from the defeated Germans after ww2 for example.

  269. While the immense contribution of Britannia to the advancement of human society will always be recognized for all its worth, as I said, Amerrica will be mostly remembered for the state of permanent war it used to live in and for having kept the rest of the world under fear and anxiety with the threat of nuclear Apocalypse from the very moment it got the A-bomb;

    Well, again, GatoBart, that depends on how well future and present historians seek the truth. The US, under the freedom it existed under for the first 150 years of the Republic was a mighty engine of invention and improvement of society. Think of the difference from 1870 to 1920. The moon landing was the culmination of White Can-Do America. That was 52 years ago, so it’s understandable that young people have a view of only the bad that set in over the last 30*. You may very well be one of them.

    The H-bomb and the mutually assured destruction was responsible for keeping the biggest instance of Communism from taking much of the rest of the world. It’s not like the science would have just been forgotten were it not for the Manhattan project.

    No, you are dead wrong here. America, during its Republic days, before the ctrl-left ruined it with Socialism, Feminism, and rot throughout the institutions, was the best force for good the world has ever seen, and who knows, maybe will ever see.

    I know the truth because I was there, I am here, and I continually seek the truth. I hope you are trying to do the same, GatoBart. Reading Fred Reed and the complete anti-all-things-American writers that Ron Unz generously features is not going to help in this regard. How about some Ron Paul, some Michelle Malkin, and the articles by the VDare writers? They are people who are actually trying to be a force for good NOW, when time is late.

    I would also recommend Peak Stupidity, but that’d be taking advantage of the great comment section Mr. Unz set up. Wait, I do that every day – in fact, I only comment under Fred Reed because he does get a lot of reads and the links bring traffic to my site. Otherwise, I would avoid this old fool.

    .

    * “Set in” is the wrong phrasing, used for expediency. Much of the wrong was implemented by the Commie ctrl-left over 55 years, and not really just accidental.

  270. mc23 says:
    @Alfred

    My grandmother was a teenager in Cork when the Black and Tans went on a rampage setting fires, shooting and attacking people. I’ll just say my mother was no fan of British Royalty.

  271. @Wokechoke

    Carthage despite its power having been transoceanic carved no single statue : their hatred of aesthetic pursuits as inferior to any money-making venture was to be matched only by the US, who in reality, as you climb the masonic degrees, has to be realized emulates Carthage, not Rome. They only manufactured glass trinkets and baubles. Druidic Gaul was essentially the reign of priests that controlled populations by setting clan against clan to make sure nobody outside their hierarchy would escape death in battle if they behaved too brightly or turned into conspiracy theorists. It built nothing of value nor produced any work of art nor any written text of their own language which is approximately known to us by the transliterations Greek tradesmen happened to produce. Anyway, contrary to the Carthaginian Empire the remembrance was so bitter that the Romans could only gain popularity by blotting out all cultural traces of it and by demoting all their Gods to the rank of demons in the Olympian system, Druidic Gaul, though defeated by Cesar, was left standing, though somewhat receding, through the whole Pax Romana, as many Roman oligarchs and Republican senators hired druids to their service as occultists to secure their wealth and privileges by even trickier means from the too honest part of the population. Hating druids was the hallmark of imperial populism. With the result that both druids and the Gaulish language were to vanish only when the Roman Empire gave way to Germanic rule.

  272. Americans never learn that TV is their worst enemy. In Vietnam, the US military learned not to trust free journalists. They learned that they lost the war at home. From then on, no more free journalists. So it has been.
    Like with the plandemic, way too many Americans continue to believe the TV. Justice is being done to America.

  273. @Achmed E. Newman

    The moon landing was not the culmination of White can do but of White can suck : they were offered the Moonlight and they fell for it. Anyway even though, as JFK himself said in aparte minutes after his infamous speech, only iron men could make it to the moon, most of the hardware that happened to be real was built by imported nazi manpower : American hands were just too gross for the job. Though the direction was nazi, the multitudinous subcontractors called into the Apollo project were all Jewish, hiring nearly only Jews who rejoiced at that grand way to fleece the goys into paying ever more for the MIC. Without that culmination of White can suck the rest to come of what was declared as progressive (homosexuality, feminism, black cultural supremacy …) couldn’t have come that easily.

    If the conspiracy theorists of then had won their way through and gained over public opinion, proving that JFK was no better than the rest and even more audacious in mendacity, that drive to so-called progress might have been stopped by the grand scandal being exposed. The US, and in particular the whole American scientific elite, would have been put to world shame and probably lost their status as a the land of world currency, and been retrograded to the rank of low quality no so Whites capable of competing with the South East Asian industries but not with European powers in quality : the havoc wrought on the rust belt wouldn’t have taken place, there would still be relatively well paid jobs in Detroit proper, but America at large would have exported to the world Cadillacs and other decorated jalopies, not Mercedes, not even Hondas (Even though the Whites would have woken up for good to the biological ineptitude of Blacks for qualified handiwork, American White but second-grade and mostly slavic hands would have proved too gross for car computerization and stuck with 1950-like designs), while sliding gently onto a receding economic path that would have resulted in a kind anti-progressive, protestant Argentina, fixed in the glorious days of Old Wild West rather than in the 1960’s, and persecuting all too powerful brains. The Jewish and Jewish betrothed elites would have never forgotten White America that humiliation of the MIC and led the US into planned impoverishment (though mostly through religious obscurantism rather through progressivism) even quicker, probably to choose France as the main base from which corrupting the whole modern world into cultural marxism. The Mexican automobile industry would have been independent from the US one and level with that of Japan, while the US elites would have stayed filthy rich mostly through agricultural commodities sold on the world market. American Whites would have been left alone more among themselves as the US would have lost their magnetic force to the dreamers of the world, but they would be mostly cowboys and farmhands in a country run by ressource and commodity extracting concerns and a few heritage industries thriving on bygone fashions being continued. Nato’s main military industrial contributor would have been France.

  274. @Malla

    That is not true : first of all, as a rule, children were promised to future spouses, not actually espoused : the future husband just continued the girls’ education and in general the sexual aspect came very late as Hinduism is probably, despite tantra and other curiosities, one of the most puritanical universes of the world. If the planned couple relationship didn’t work the woman’s family could say no. As a general rule the British chose their allies among the most retrograde Hindu rajas, who had deformed most Hinduism into a system of slavery and compensation through religious imagination, and then only they edicted rules imposing a modicum of social justice, most often of no real benefit for most victims except affirmative action at political level, post-1970 American style. Shudras had not been denied an education from time immemorial : the Hindu fold had quite recently, under the growing influence and lobbying of world finance (which was then Persian) gradually sunken to about the same war against the poor and the workers America has been experiencing now, resulting in all mechanical arts considered as inferior. Shudras used to be qualified well-paid artisans commanding high prices on the world market, whose activity was suddenly outsourced to early Industrial England, reducing them all to utter destitution. A more balanced point of view is that from time immemorial all castes had their specialized education offered by their corporation or guild and that as India gradually lost its independence the occupying powers FORBADE Vedic lore to be taught to lower castes as both the Persians and then the Westerners planned to educate those slaves they were making in their newer ideologies by a gradual uprooting process.

    • Replies: @Malla
  275. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    Wow, no wonder those fares were so cheap. That certainly explain the big Number of passengers carried per mile of open railway.

    What rubbish. The fares were among the cheapest in the world.

    Why did the British build railways in india…?”

    “The British introduced the railway system …… railway would simultaneously open the Indian market to British manufactured products such as cotton textiles”.

    Bullshit. This is just marxist nonsense on Wikipedia. The railways were primarily built to fight against famine, you IQ monkey.

    Lord Lytton’s speech in the Legislative Assembly of the Indian Government is a must read.

    At the close of 1877 a measure was introduced at the Legislative Assembly of the Indian Government, by Sir John Strachey, legislation to which, supplemented by the Acts previously passed in that year, was designed to provide for the future expenses cost of famines.
    In a work published by Sir John Strachey and his brother on ‘ The Finances and Public Works of India,’ it is written : ‘ A nobler, more humane, or wiser programme was never devised by any Government for the benefit of a country than that put forth by the Government of India in 1878 for the protection of India against this most terrible and ruinous and far-reaching of all natural calamities ; and until it is brought into far more complete operation than has hitherto been permitted, the most urgent of the duties of the British rulers of India to the vast population they have undertaken to govern will be left unfulfilled.’-
    It was Lord Lytton’s conviction, a conviction shared by all the leading men in India, that the wisest policy was, by the construction of a network of cheap railways and carefully planned works of irrigation, to do all that it was in the power of a Government to do to prevent the frightful calamities of famine to which India is still exposed.
    This policy was set forth in a speech delivered by Lord Lytton at the close of the Legislative Council held on December 27, 1877, a speech which Sir John Strachey has characterised as worthy ‘ to be remembered among the wisest utterances of Indian Governors.’
    The principles therein laid down may be understood from the following extracts from Lord Lytton.
    “ Of the countless suggestions made from time to time, and more especially during the present year, for rendering less bitterly ironical than it still seems, when read by the sinister light of recent events, that famous inscription on the huge granary built at Patna for ” the perpetual prevention of famine in these provinces” there are only three which merit serious consideration. They are firstly EMIGRATION, secondly Railways ; and thirdly, Irrigation Works. Unfortunately for India, however, the first of these three material factors in the practical solution of problems similar to those we are now dealing with is inapplicable, or only very imperfectly applicable, to the actual conditions of this country. The first condition requisite to render emigration available as a precaution against famine is a normal excess of the population as compared with the food-produce of the country; the second condition is sufficient energy, on the part of the surplus population, to induce it to seek a higher standard of material comfort than that to which it is accustomed ; and the third condition is a foreign field of labour in which this higher standard may be reached. Now, none of these conditions are sufficiently developed in India to justify reliance upon emigration as an efficient auxiliary in our struggles with famine. Of our whole population only a small portion as yet exceeds its food producing power. The possible increase of this proportion of the population will undoubtedly augment our future difficulties, if, in the meanwhile, no adequate correctives be applied to them. But in those parts of India which, during the last two years, have most suffered from scarcity, the population only averages at 250 inhabitants to every square mile; and, since those districts comprise large areas of uncultivated land, this average cannot be regarded as at all excessive. In the next place, there is no contesting the fact that, in spite of the inducements offered to emigration by this Government, in spite of the widespread organisation for the recruitment of it established by Colonial Governments, and in spite of the encouraging example furnished by that small number who, having tried the experiment of temporary emigration, return, after a few years’ absence, in possession of savings which they could not otherwise have stored by the labour of a lifetime — in spite of all these things the people of India will not emigrate. The uncomplaining patience of the Indian ryot has a profoundly pathetic claim upon our compassionate admiration. In no country of the “Western world could a national calamity, so severe and prolonged as that which has now for more than twenty-four months affected one-half of this empire, have lasted so long without provoking from the sufferings of an ignorant and starving population agrarian and social disturbances of the most formidable character. But for this very reason we cannot safely frame any plans for improving the condition of the Indian ryot in exclusive reliance on his spirit of adventure. And, although the exportation to foreign countries of large numbers of the people, without reference to their feelings and in opposition to their known inclination, is a policy which might possibly have been enforced by a Moghul Emperor, it is certainly not a policy which can be adopted by a British Government. It is a very significant fact that those of our native subjects who do occasionally emigrate belong to the least, rather than the most, densely populated parts of the country. Finally, it must be borne in mind that if to-morrow all the native races of Hindustan were animated by a simultaneous impulse to emigrate, there is at present no field of foreign labour capable of absorbing a proportion of the enormous population of this continent sufficiently large to make any appreciable difference in the general condition of the remainder. Our colonies take from India, annually a few thousand labourers. Multiply that number by ten, or even twenty, and the percentage of Indian emigration would still bear but an insignificant relation to the number of the whole non-emigrant community.

  276. @Rich

    Almost all wars are fought to dtrmin who’s got th biggst dick. My laptop’s crappd out, skips characttrs, must gt nw on.

  277. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    “For all these reasons, although emigration unquestionably claims our fostering encouragement, I fear that for many years to come we must practically exclude this expedient from the list of those on which we mainly rely as a means of insuring the population of India against the calamities of periodical famine. The conclusion thus arrived at forcibly confines our immediate efforts to the most rapid development, by the cheapest methods, combined with the most appropriate and efficient application, of the only two remaining instruments for increasing the produce of the soil, facilitating its circulation, and thereby improving the general social condition, and augmenting the collective wealth, of the whole community. Those instruments are railroads and irrigation works. . . .”
    After examining in detail the principles on which the development of railroads and irrigation works should be carried out, he summed up the policy in the following words : ‘ The Government of India is convinced, upon a careful review of its financial position and prospects, that the heavy obligations imposed upon it by the calamitous circumstances of recent years can only be discharged without serious risk to its financial stability by a strict and patient adherence to the principle affirmed in the financial measures we introduced last year, and developed in those which are now before the Council. That principle involves the enlargement, with adequate precautions, of the financial, and consequently also of the administrative, powers and responsibilities of the local Governments. In the next place, we believe that, if this principle be fairly carried into effect, the new imposts which the Council is now asked to sanction will, when added to the resources already created, provide the State with sufficient means for the permanent maintenance of a national insurance against famine, without heavily increasing the pecuniary burdens of its subjects. …snip….
    We therefore propose to entrust, in the first instance, to the local Governments the duty of framing a sufficient and carefully considered scheme of local railroad and irrigation works. We are prepared to provide them with the means whereby they may, from year to year work systematically forwards and upwards to the completion of such a scheme. The funds locally raised for this purpose will be locally applied. But provincial Governments will have to meet the cost of provincial famines out of provincial funds, to the fullest extent those funds can bear. They will find that thriftless expenditure in one year may involve the risk of diminished allotments in subsequent years; and I cannot doubt that the unavoidable recognition of this fact will make them wisely eager to spend the requisite proportion of their annual income upon well planned and carefully estimated railway and irrigation works, which will be their best insurance against the losses of famine, and the postponement of all administrative progress which famine generally entails. It will be the special duty of the Public Works Department of this Government to keep those objects constantly in view of the local Governments, and to assist them no less constantly in their endeavours to give a rational preference to really useful and remunerative works over those more captivating, but less compensating, subjects of expenditure which in all comparatively small communities so powerfully appeal to provincial pride, professional proclivities, or popular pleasure.
    ‘ The specific projects now announced to this Council I have not presumed to put forward as the enunciation of any new policy. On the contrary, I should have spoken with much more hesitation if I imagined myself to be treading upon ground not long since surveyed by experienced authorities ; and the strongest recommendation I can claim for the views I have expressed is that they differ in no important particular from those of the eminent statesmen have preceded me in the office I now hold. But Famine between the present and all previous occasions on which the Government of India has declared its policy and principles in reference to the prevention of famine, there is one essential difference which I am anxious to impress upon your attention. I can well imagine that many of those I am now addressing may be disposed to say to me: ” Your good intentions are possibly sincere ; but the path to the nethermost pit is already paved with good intentions. Promise is a good dog, but Performance is a better; we have often heard the bow-wow of the first ; we have yet to see the tail of the second. We have been told over and over again by the highest authorities that India is to be insured against famine in this way, or in that, but when famines come upon us we find that the promised way is still wanting. The current claims upon the activities and resources of the Government of India are so numerous, so pressing, so important, official forces and imperial funds so necessarily limited, that when once the daily, hourly strain of a great famine has been removed from a wearied administration and impoverished treasury, its fearful warnings are soon forgotten ; its disquieting ghosts are quickly exorcised by the conventional declaration of some unexceptionable principle ; its bitter memories decently interred beneath the dull hic jacet of a blue book ; and there, for all practical purposes, is an end of the matter.”

    From the speech of Lord Lytton in 1877 above we know that Wikipedia is bullshit.

  278. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    He has the backbone to stick to that truth.

    There is no truth in that.

    Now, which does you prefer?

    Prof. Gilley is obviously right.

    How is that different from those of the white West’s Propaganda Industry, who blame every ill of the West’s own on either the Chinese or the Jews?!

    This has ti be one of the most ridiculous bullshit I have ever read. Western media blaming everything on Jews? Are you on drugs? Western media is Owned by Jews. In the West you can easily criticize White people but you cannot criticize Jews easily. Are you all right?
    Prof Tony Martin, a black Professor had his career screwed because of his research on Jewish involvement in the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. What does that tell you?
    And the Chinese media does not blame the West or Japan for anything? whom are you trying to fool?

    You are clearly BLIND to the SAME claims from the white nationalists, or even the jap nationalists when jap power was at its height.

    White Nationalists and Japanese nationalists have very little power in the West and Japan respectively. Wumaos and Indian Nationalists are more in tune with their present governments.

    At least, the “Wumaos” and Indian nationalisls do not attempt to ram their own systems down other peoples’ throats!

    Oh, my you suddenly care about Indian Nationalists. Acting cute? Won’t work, you guys will always be a major enemy of Indian Nationalism.

    But that doesn’t stop the West keep raining India with praise for being the “biggest demoncrazy in the world”,

    India IS the World’s largest democracy, what is the problem in stating the obvious fact?

    Reading your piece reminds me of the way some house servants talked:

    Here it comes again. Gunga Din, Uncle Tom. ….Brother this trick is old. Try something new. This is nothing but a trick to shut down people speaking uncomfortable truths.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  279. Sam McGowan says: • Website

    While I understand Fred’s frustration, his knowledge of the history of Vietnam is not even sketchy. He simply doesn’t know shit. The United States didn’t “invade South Vietnam,” the North Vietnamese did. The war had been going on since 1957 when Hanoi decided to send troops south to organize an insurgency. They ran all over Eastern Laos in the Laotian Civil War then refused to withdraw their troops when that war “ended” with accords negotiated in Geneva. Although there were American advisors to the South Vietnamese military prior to 1961, that’s when JFK decided to escalate by sending more advisors. That didn’t work so LBJ increased assistance then finally sent in ground combat troops beginning in February of 1965 when a Marine antiaircraft missile battalion moved to Da Nang from Okinawa. They were followed by the 173rd Airborne which moved to Bien Hoa and additional Marines from Okinawa who moved to Da Nang. They were followed by additional Army divisions and air units. Those troops were brought in AT THE REQUEST OF the South Vietnamese government. At no point did the US attempt to affect Vietnamese culture Now, the US really did invade Afghanistan and we put in our own puppet government. Although the North Vietnamese liked to claim the Saigon government was a puppet government, it was actually the shadow communist government who were Hanoi’s puppets. No, US troops were never defeated in South Vietnam. The air war was a joke because we weren’t really accomplishing anything since we had no real desire to destroy North Vietnam’s ability to make war but the ground war did defeat the so-called Viet Cong. North Vietnam had to rebuilt an entirely new army in order to mount THEIR final invasion and capture the country. In short, Fred is once again all wet.

    • Troll: d dan
  280. Malla says:
    @Francis Miville

    What you wrote is all prime grade bullshit. But I do not blame you at all. you have been conned. Your whole post of bullshit (no offence to you personally) is the result of lies of a wily Brahmin named G.S Ghurye. He fooled two American leftard professors and we all know how stupid many of these leftard professors are and got the whole caste system blamed on the British. So basically this immoral scumbag blamed the party for the caste system, the party who had done so much to helped emancipate the lower castes from millennia of the worst form of slavery.
    https://www.forwardpress.in/2019/08/caste-blame-game-on-colonialism-rationalization-of-a-brahmanic-lie/
    Caste blame game on colonialism: Rationalization of a brahmanic lie
    It was brahman sociologist G.S. Ghurye’s regressive perspective on caste, politics and colonialism that guided Bernard Cohn and Nicholas Dirks to develop the thesis that the colonial census and information-gathering effectively created the categories of religion and caste, as we know them today. Now, US-based geographer Sanjay Chakravorty has picked up on it and appears to be on a re-popularizing mission

    BTW the holy text, Manusmriti explicitly states the punishments to be given out to Shudras who do get an education. Hearing the Vedas being recited by a lowly Shudra would lead to his ears being filled by molten silver.

  281. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    The second factor is that, contrary to your delirious expectations, India is nowhere near to become a world superpower,

    Are you nuts? I have never ever claimed that India would become a superpower, neither do I want India to become a superpower. After seeing what happened to the USSR and what is happening to the USA, more I do not want India to become no superpower.
    Please show me where have I claimed India would become a superpower. Show me, go through all my posts.

    if someone advises you to learn a new language that will be Mandarin or Cantonese rather than Hindu.

    Hindu??? what kind of language is that? Never heard of it. LOL.

    but I don’t even see Indian restaurants when I am in a South American city.

    Boohoo, we do not need a stamp of approval from South America for our cuisine. LOL Our cuisine is very popular in many parts of the World. Come to think of it, in my city we get Chinese food, American burgers, Italian food, British pie, British style tea houses, Spanish Paela, Lebanese Shwarma, Thai restaurants, German style sausages, Japanese Sushi, Korean restaurants. Hell we now even get Cajun food in Delhi, originally from Louisiana!!! We have loads of KFCs, BurgerKings, McDonalds, PizzaHuts, Dominoes, Costa Cofee etc… you name it.But nothing from South America. Zero zilch. Indeed most Indians could not name a dish from South America, including Indians living in the USA. We get Mexican food here (or Tex Mex?) but I consider Mexican as Central American. So nothing from South America here. Boohoo. LOL.

    the drug trafficking (about which the Chinese have bitter memories of their own),

    LOL the Chinese were growing ten times the opium compared to what they were importing from British India and not all was coming from British territory, Indian kingdoms especially those of the famous Malwa region renowned for opium was exporting opium via Central Asia to China, independent of the British territories. Arab traders have been selling opium to China from the 8th century and even before the English came to India, opium was already a State Monopoly of the earlier Mughal Government and India already was a major exporter of opium before the British even came here.
    As far as slaves, the British later banned slavery and the Royal navy played a big role in its abolition. Indeed colonialism played a big role in abolishing slavery throughout Africa. Slavery was common in many Arab lands till the 1960s and it was British and American pressure which played its part in its abolition

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @gatobart
  282. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    They irremediably lost that chance when Hitler invaded the USSR.

    He had no choice. Germany, Romania, Hungary, Finland etc.. had to attack before the USSR attacked them. The USSR had the blessings of the British Empire and the USA, they got their food from the British Commonwealth.

    Empires are a mixed blessing, if you want to call them that, being overly generous.

    OK lets put it this way. The British Empire (and up to some extent other European Empires of a period and the Japanese Empire) was very different from earlier Empires like the Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Persian Empire etc… as due to industrialization it was making more money via its industries that it did not need to take money from its colonies. Indeed they were many a times losing money on their colonies. The British Empire was also quiet different from the American Wall Street Empire after WW2. Very different characters. During the height of the Empire, very little talent was poached off from the Empire into the metropole as is now the case with USA. Most of British inventions were made by native British scientists not immigrant scientists.

    How many Indians died or were mutilated fighting for King and Empire during WW2 and how many among the surviving ended up receiving decent war pensions and adequate medical care and other services after all

    It was a voluntary army, not conscripted. They volunteered for their King Emperor, their own King Emperor, Emperor of India who was very well liked my the masses. When the King Emperor came to India for his durbar (court), he entertained classical Indian musicians and dancers and gave them baksheesh and traditional titles like a native Indian King would do.
    Also you forget before the British Empire, India was cursed by constant invasions of Turks, Afghans and god know every tom dick and harry who came to India and looted and killed millions. The constant Turkish invasions like that of Mahmud of Gazni saw millions of Indians killed and enslaved. Entire villages emptied, the people enslaved, writes the great Arab traveler Ibn Butata. The death and destruction of the invasions of Afghan King Ahmed Shah Abdali was terrifying for Indian history.
    The wholesale loot of India by Nadir Shah of Persia broke the our Mughal court permanently. The guy loaded 700 camels, elephants etc.. full of loot of Indian wealth. After protection of British Empire all these invasions down to zero. A big 0. Millions of Indian lives saved right there.
    Also before the British united India, Indians were constantly fighting each other, Marathas, Mughals, Sikhs, Ahoms etc… you name it. Pindari dacoits ravaged the lands looting peasants. Who put an end to these Pindaris? the British. Who united India and stopped Indians from fighting each other, the British. Imagine all those lives saved and destruction avoided by the British Empire. And the British brought a far more humane system of government than anything before. Supporting the Empire was our duty in return.
    And who told you Indian soldiers did not get pensions and medical benefits?
    Actually one of the the many reasons for the success of the British East India Company Army over its Indian opponents was that it took better care of its soldiers, yes Indian soldiers. They always paid on time and took great care of soldiers who had suffered disability in war, they were given land. The armies of the Maratha Empire were some of the best in the World. The troops were brave and hardy and they were well equipped with military tactics. But their rulers never managed to provide their soldiers with salaries on time. The Indian soldier in an Indian army either Hindu or Islamic or Sikh, had to organise his own horse, his own gear and even his own arms. These were costly assets. Often his greater anxiety was to preserve his equipment, rather than the battle fortunes of his regiment.

    The British East India company in contrast, spent much time and effort on taking care of their sipahis (soldiers), and especially the invalid ones. An entire section of the Company army administration was devoted to what they called the “Invalid Establishment”. This establishment was to see to the affairs of all those who had served the company army for 10-12 years but were no longer able to serve due to age or infirmity. Further it took care of even those who had served a lesser amount of time but had suffered wounds in the service of the company. From 1788 onwards, it was company policy to allot lands to these invalid soldiers and to settle them in “invalid thanahs” in company territory. In addition to the land, they were also given some cash gratuity. From 1790 onwards, special provisions were made for company sipahis on foreign service, to remit money to their families.

  283. Robright says:
    @SemperFi, 0321

    Oh yes i saw it first hand sailed in aboard the Hancock. I cringe today everytime i think about it and now the redo actually worse then the first time around. How much more incompetent can the leaders of this country become. All I can see from this viewpoint is China double timeing towards Taiwan and whatever else is left in SE Asia

  284. gatobart says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “Well, again, GatoBart, that depends on how well future and present historians seek the truth. The US, under the freedom it existed under for the first 150 years of the Republic was a mighty engine of invention and improvement of society”:

    You are right on the beginning but wrong in the conclusion. Because what you are forgetting is that History will be written, and conserved, in the future by the global south and the global east, by what it was used to be called the underdeveloped countries and now, the emerging world. The Yellow, the Brown, the Black and the Red. The White race will become more and more a minority and it will end up being absorbed by the others, mankind will become more uniform and dark-skinned. For the last four centuries History has been written by White Europeans and even more so during the last 75 years as they, mostly Anglo Saxon and French, have been the ones owning and controlling the means of communication and, for now, most of social media. And in a final review Amerrica, the U.S. empire, will not look any near as good as you think, quite the opposite, because every single race on Earth other than White already have a big beef against it.

    I am not that young as you think so I have seen the world changing; and because of that I have seen as the Latin American world has changed also; their culture, their view of the wide world has changed accordingly so and in that world Amerrican and European political influence have very much dwindled in the last two or three decades and so we don’t have the same picture as you for obvious reasons. Over there at the present time is like Europe didn’t even exist and the U.S., is like an old senile uncle who is stumbling his way around and doing more damage than any good in whatever he gets his hands on. One also that has been lying a lot too. For example, the people who believe that the U.S. actually went to the Moon is a minority over there, and in the rest of the world and a decreasing one in number with time. That is true even in the U.S. and I know that because I have seen the debates in YT comments columns and I have even been part of them myself and what I can say is that many comments by Amerricans are not very kind to NASA to say the least. Also, in the global South the last thing people think about the U.S. is that is has contributed in any way to bring democracy, human rights or social equality to them. Quite the opposite, in most of Latin America the U.S. is seen by the masses as an oppressive negative force, the worst enemy of freedom, democracy and human rights, always trying to steal our natural riches one way or another, always trying to destroy governments that have tried in any way to do good for their people. The examples are numerous. Practically every country has its own examples of U.S. intervention, usually illegal ones and many bloody and brutal. Nobody has forgotten over there the staging of CIA coups that toppled democratically elected governments like in Guatemala or Nicaragua and installed bloody dictatorships, the enthusiastic support of Washington for the murderous South American military dictators of the 70s, its financing, with drug money of the murderous Contras and the genocidal dictatorships/death squads that terrorized Central America during the 1980s with lasting consequences to this day, the vindictive embargo against Cuba, the military aggressions against Dominican Republic (1964), Cuba (1961-62), Guatemala (1954) and specially the wars against Mexico in the 1800s, nobody has forgotten any of that south of the Rio Grande. And the same story for the rest of the world, in Africa (they remember Patrice Lumumba) Asia, in the Middle East, even in Eastern Europe, in Ukraine, Serbia. The British are very lucky of having played only a secondary role in many of these illegal adventures, especially in North Africa and the Middle East (Libya, Iraq) because their participation can be pinned on individuals or individual governments (Blair, Thatcher) so the overall image of Great Britain hasn’t suffered as it should (for ex. nobody in L.A. can give any example of London’s staged military coups or London’s support for bloody dictators among us) but the case is completely different for the U.S. It is the country, the empire which has been doing all this evil in the world and any participation by its European “allies” is that of simple vassals. As I told you, the History of the future will not be written by White Europeans, let alone by Amerricans, but mostly by the global South and then China and Russia, and they are already writing it and I can tell you in advance that while Europeans don’t look so bad in it (I already mentioned the British Empire) Amerricans do and much. And this is not new, it goes practically to the post war period. I remember reading about the Vietnam War and an interesting comment by someone, I don’t remember if that was a Vietnamese or a European, and he was saying this, which to me resumes it all: “In Vietnam the French left something: they left their language and their culture, they left the architecture, their religion, they left many things. But the U.S., has left nothing but death and destruction.” That is why the British and Europeans in general always win in comparison, because they are seen as having left something positive for locals everywhere. Perhaps the future will be kinder to Amerrica in Latin America but still, no one will be talking about European staged coups or bombings or European military invasions as the case will always be with the U.S. So you are completely wrong about the U.S. at least that of the post ww2 period, as it is obvious you have swallowed the usual Amerrican propaganda line that it has to contain Communism and that did such a perfect job doing it. That is another American lie, one of the biggest lie in History. The Cold War was 100% an Amerrican invention, a Frankenstein creature of their MIC and the world abroad knows it. But to realize that you would have to actually get really informed about the USSR, its origins and the world shaping event that meant Stalin taking over after Lenin’s death.

    Many people have said that Bolshevism is just Zionism using Marxism as a disguise, and watching the list of Bolshevik leaders at the time of the October Revolution that seems to be true. But then Josef Stalin takes over the party and, as the provincial xenophobic Georgian that he is, he hates internationalists above everything else, as he hates the outside world, and he hates even more their representatives in the party, specially their leader, Leo Trotsky. So he engages in a personal fight to purgue them from it and starts taking them out, many times physically, one by one until Trotskyism, i.e. internationalist Marxism, is pretty much crushed inside the now CP-USSR. From then on the USSR will dedicate itself above all to self-preservation and foreign pro-Moscow Communist parties will be put under notice that from then on they will work in the interests of “Socialist Mother USSR” even over those of their own country and people. And they do that. For example, when the Germans invaded France in 1940, the French Communists didn’t even criticize the Nazi invaders but instead blamed plutocrat Churchill “for provoking a fratricide fight between brother nations”. But when a year later Nazi Germany attacks the USSR the same CP changes its tune and now it is “Destroy the Fascists invading Socialist Mother USSR!” (That is the true origin of the famed “Resistance”, which didn’t even exist before June 1941). That has been the behavior of pro-Moscow CPs all over the world from the 1920s to the demise of the USSR. They have been always told by Moscow what to do and they have been told also to never rock the local boats in Western politics, to never disrupt the internal order of the so called “Western democracies”, to always act according to the laws of their land, especially in Western Europe. But not only Stalin gave orders in that regard but he also acted accordingly: he not only abandoned every single Communist uprising in Europe after 1920 but he even betrayed them, in Germany, Hungary. During the Spanish Civil war he sent people to Spain, but not to fight Franco but to eliminate Trotskyists. In Latin America CPs parties always abhorred guerrillas, rejected armed struggle and even in Cuba, relations were usually cold between Fidel Castro and Moscow Communists. In Bolivia, when Che Guevara contacted them at the beginning of his intended guerrilla war, the pro-Moscow PC told him to go away, so condemning him. In Chile, where the most important CP in the Americas existed until the 911 coup of 1973, it always abided by the law. The same in Europe, where CPs were told by Moscow to play the political game and participate in elections.

    That is what the Amerrican propaganda apparatus concealed from the rest of the world because it went against its own interests, its own pro-permanent war propaganda, the fact that the USSR has never ever had any intention of disrupting the political systems of Western countries, not out of fear of the A-bomb but simply because Stalin had clearly established at the beginning of his rule that the main task for all Communists, for the present and foreseeable future, was the consolidation of the Communist system in the USSR, as the model that most likely the rest of the world would follow when Capitalism one future day collapsed and for that Communism needed a world at peace. That is what Nikita Krutschev meant when he visited the U.S. and famously said when faced to the material marvels of US capitalism, “We’ll bury you!”, that the USSR one day would give her own people an even better standard of living, but of course the US propaganda apparatus completely distorted the meaning of those words. That is also what brought us the Brezhnev Doctrine of pacific co-existence with the West, years later, which created a big schism with Mao’s China and almost open all-out war between both Communist giants. All that was completely ignored by Amerrica’s propaganda because the U.S. MIC needed an external enemy after Nazi Germany had been defeated in 1945, to have a good use for the immense amount of material the weapons industry had been churning out since ww2, to justify an artificial state of war for the gullible masses, and Communism in general provided for an opportune excuse until 1991. Not to mention also an excuse for the elites in the Third World to keep their masses under control, so any social worker, any union activist that demanded higher wages, any peasant who protested because his land had been taken away by a corrupt regime to give it for free to U.S. MNs, could be branded bow “a Commie” and so be a target of the local military of CIA created and trained death squads as it has happened in most countries in central America and even Brazil and Colombia.

    That is the real face of the Amerrica you admire so and the only face the global south and the global east know of it. Also, what has made that practically all the wars that Amerrica has fought, or rather provoked, after ww2 have been launched using a lie as an excuse, especially in the case of Vietnam. The truth there is that Ho Chi Mihn was a pro-US agent in WW2, he was even an OSS (the original CIA) asset, expecting that once the war was finished Washington would help him get independence from France for Vietnam and protection from the Chinese. But the U.S. betrayed him and instead of helping him (despite the fact that he offered Washington to install how many military bases they wanted in his country) they decided it made business sense to use him as an excuse for just another war for the benefit of the US MIC. It didn’t matter that it would cost tens of thousands of Amerrican deaths and millions in Indochina. That is the real Amerrica for the world, the one you refuse to see.

  285. Sadly I agree with most of what Fred wrote . The only disagreement is, there was no reason to leave overnight and fast without so much as telling Afghan army we left!
    For the past two years not a single US servicemen died in Afghanistan. (More people die every weekend in Chicago than years of fighting in there) . An Small contingent of US and NATO professional soldiers, afghan army and air support when needed could have kept Taliban away from major cities for decades .
    Also if we really wanted peace there, we should have cut the money that Saudi Arabia provided to Taliban through Pakistan. Had we put real pressure on Saudi Arabia and Pakistan the result may have been different.
    In any case the damage is done, China will take over, and this will hunt us for decades to come not just loss of prestige with allies and loss of fear from the foes, but back to making Afghanistan a breeding ground for Islamic terrorism that will find its way sooner or later to Europe and to our shores.

  286. @Barbarossa

    Agreed.
    to loose = to unleash
    And the US loosed war upon Afghanistan.

    As in the much-quoted poem by WB Yeats:
    https://poets.org/poem/second-coming

  287. gatobart says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    BTW, the Amerrican War in Vietnam wasn’t fought for democracy, to bring it to that that country, as the opposite to Communist dictatorship, as Eisenhower himself had recognized that if free elections were carried out in the whole of the country Ho Chi Minh would have won them by a wide margin.

    “I am convinced that the French could not win the war because the internal political situation in Vietnam, weak and confused, badly weakened their military position. I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai. Indeed, the lack of leadership and drive on the part of Bao Dai was a factor in the feeling prevalent among Vietnamese that they had nothing to fight for. As one Frenchman said to me, “What Vietnam needs is another Syngman Rhee, regardless of all the difficulties the presence of such a personality would entail.”
    https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/vietnam/ddeho.htm

  288. gatobart says:

    “During the height of the Empire, very little talent was poached off from the Empire into the metropole as is now the case with USA. Most of British inventions were made by native British scientists not immigrant scientists”

    That is true and also something to admire about Britannia, that most if not all the scientific and technological inventions, Nature laws and innovations that brought to the world were the fruit of pure home grown British genius and talent, not by appropriation of the work of others, specially refugees who came asking for a new home and who had to sell, or even give away, their creations and many time themselves, their talent and workforce, to some greedy local entrepreneur who would steal their ideas and then take credit for them, not to mention while becoming filthy rich in the process. Neither there was such a thing as a British Operation Clipboard where tens of thousands of patents would have been stolen from a defeated enemy and showcased as their own. A brief listing of such talent and their contributions to mankind is enough to take your breath away:

    Sir Isaac Newton: laws of motion, telescope, visible spectrum, Infinitesimal calculus, etc, etc.
    James Maxwell: the four formulas for electromagnetism.
    Michael Faraday: putting into practise the laws of electromagnetism found by Maxwell, which made possible the electric motor, dynamos, the transport of electricity and its use at an industrial level.
    James Watts : the steam machine
    George Stephenson : the first working railroad.
    Joseph Aspdin : Portland cement (standard construction cement)
    Joseph John Thomson: discovery of the electron, which can be added to the contribution by New Zealand born Ernest Rutherford (while working in Canada), the first standard model of the atom.

    The list goes on and on, and even a cursory reading is enough to take your breath away. And this wasn’t poached from any foreign country nor stolen from needed refugees. Pure homegrown, 100% British talent. Anyway, anyone can find it in

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_innovations_and_discoveries

    And last but not least, the man who is making all this possible, cheap or even free: Sir Tim Berners-Lee, the British inventor of the World Wide Web, without which many of us would be unable to use these devices as when faced with the possibility of patenting the idea, and becoming ten times a billionaire as Gates or Bezos, he refused, stating that the only way the W.W.W. could work properly was by being an open Internet source available to everyone who wanted to come to and contribute. Ask that from any Amerrican inventor or entrepreneur.

  289. @Rich

    I’ll keep it brief, Rich.
    There aint no stinking bush.
    See how much you know about Afghanistan?

    • Replies: @Rich
  290. gatobart says:

    Sorry Malla. i was actually thinking you were just another foul-mouthed prick posturing as a fine and cultured person until I watched this episode, and this scene, of The Big Bang Theory, which made me realize that such is the regular way for Indian motorists to try to open their way among the dense downtown traffic of crowded cities like New Delhi or Calcutta. So it may have stuck. We’re good.

  291. @BaronAsh

    I’m optimistic. Taliban will have nothing to do with US, UK, and of course “israel”. They will make fair agreements with neighbouring countries, and Russia. The mutually beneficial Belt and Road will progress.

  292. @Malla

    There is no truth in that.

    Truth hurts. The ony defence is to deny it.

    Prof. Gilley is obviously right.

    So “obvious” that his peers did not see it.

    Western media blaming everything on Jews? Are you on drugs? Western media is Owned by Jews. In the West you can easily criticize White people but you cannot criticize Jews easily. Are you all right?

    And the Jewish owned “Western media” has been running a concerted campaign in demonizing China and the Chinese since before Dumb Trump was president. I must be right that it is blaming China!

    There is also the “Alternative Media” in the West, such as UNZ.com, in which the Jews are blamed by the whites for practically every ill in the white societies. And you pretend not to have noticed despite being on it for far longer than I have! “Are YOU all right?!”

    White Nationalists and Japanese nationalists have very little power in the West and Japan respectively. Wumaos and Indian Nationalists are more in tune with their present governments.

    Wrong! The white nationalists have even greater power on their governments than 20 years ago but they have now turned their hegemonic attentions from Afghanistan to China!!!

    When jap power was at its height, the jap nationalists turned into jap militarists and the rest is history.

    Oh, my you suddenly care about Indian Nationalists. Acting cute? Won’t work, you guys will always be a major enemy of Indian Nationalism.

    No, I simply stated the FAC T that “Indian nationalists do not attempt to ram their own systems down other peoples’ throats!”

    The Wumaos DON’T care about the Indian nationalists– except when the latter make anti-China rants or take anti-China actions. Here are your own words about China and the Chnese being “a major enemy of Indian Nationalism”:

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/india-implodes-its-own-new-silk-road/?showcomments#comment-4165099

    India IS the World’s largest democracy, what is the problem in stating the obvious fact?

    A diversion from you. The original point of argument was about their praising of an India which, in your own words, was:

    Accountability actually tanked once the British left India. The civil servants became arrogant and corruption increased from about 1957.

    and my response was:

    But that doesn’t stop the West keep raining India with praise for being the “biggest demoncrazy in the world”, etc. I am sure that such praise is “well intended”– right up to the gate of Hell.

    Here it comes again. Gunga Din, Uncle Tom. ….Brother this trick is old. Try something new. This is nothing but a trick to shut down people speaking uncomfortable truths.

    Truth hurts! It would be better for you if I did not mention it.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  293. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    “The Chinese were growing ten times the opium compared to what they were importing from British India and not all was coming from British territory, Indian kingdoms especially those of the famous Malwa region renowned for opium was exporting opium via Central Asia to China, independent of the British territories. Arab traders have been selling opium to China from the 8th century and even before the English came to India, opium was already a State Monopoly of the earlier Mughal Government and India already was a major exporter of opium before the British even came here”.

    Pure, 100%, unadulterated bullshit. And it’s not even me saying it. Not Wikipedia either, which you mistrust so much, but no other than the Encyclopedia Britannica’s website, Britannica, the website of the very ones responsible for the Opium Wars. This is like the Nazi Minister of Propaganda saying that Nazi Germany was at fault by invading Poland in 1939 so you have absolutely no argument against the following text:

    “The Opium Wars arose from China’s attempts to suppress the opium trade. Foreign traders (primarily British) had been illegally exporting opium mainly from India to China since the 18th century, but that trade grew dramatically from about 1820. The resulting widespread addiction in China was causing serious social and economic disruption there. In spring 1839 the Chinese government confiscated and destroyed more than 20,000 chests of opium—some 1,400 tons of the drug—that were warehoused at Canton (Guangzhou) by British merchants. The antagonism between the two sides increased in July when some drunken British sailors killed a Chinese villager. The British government, which did not wish its subjects to be tried in the Chinese legal system, refused to turn the accused men over to the Chinese courts”.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Opium-Wars

    The text continues but already the first part of this paragraphs makes absolutely clear the situation. Opium trade had created a drug problem among the Chinese population, so their rulers wanted to put a stop to it by confronting British drug traffickers, to which the British Empire answered with war. Do you need to have it explained any more clear than that…? You are seriously trolling there.

    And even if that is not enough for you, troll, the Treaty of Tianjin, that put an end to the state of war between China and the British Empire, and France, which had taken the latter’s side, is even clearer about the empire’s intentions and about what Chinas had been trying to stop:

    “The treaties of Tianjin, signed in June 1858, provided residence in Beijing for foreign envoys, the opening of several new ports to Western trade and residence, the right of foreign travel in the interior of China, and freedom of movement for Christian missionaries. In further negotiations in Shanghai later in the year, the importation of opium was legalized”.

    Is that clear enough for you now…? The British Empire wanted the right to openly sell its dope in China and after being defeated in war, China’s rulers had to accept it. So you have no leg to stand on about this matter.

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  294. anon[358] • Disclaimer says:

    Had a problem with a Viet one time. Bought a radio from a Sally Ann one time and took it to him becuz it didn’t work. Ran into him at the same Sally Ann a few weeks later and he said I owed him 35 bucks.
    I said, ‘It cost me ten bucks and now you are threatening me if I don’t pay 35 bucks for you to fix it?”
    Gave him a gentle little shove and said, ‘We could go here, or we could go outside.”
    He decided that the money wasn’t that important to him.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  295. Jim1239 says:

    What a well written accurate article. Worked 36 years in DOD.

    • Agree: Boomthorkell
  296. I hope a cataclysmic disaster befalls our people so that they may finally be shook from their ignorance and see the world for what it is.

    Then, we may make a better country.

    Let the great weight of Empire and the rot of vile masses and viler leaders slough off. Let the daemonic be exorcised.

    • Agree: Tony massey
  297. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    Not really
    According to Rodney Gilbert
    ” Meanwhile two foreign envoys had set out for Peking and had failed to secure audiences. Russia had wearied of flattering Chinese vanity, and while willing to make large concessions to keep alive the overland trade between Peking and Moscow, the Tsar was not inclined to be put in the position of a tributary. A Russian ambassador who arrived at Kalgan in 1805, bringing with him enormously valuable presents, was told that if received at court he would have to kow-tow. This he refused to do, and so, after some debate, he packed up his presents and returned with them to Moscow.
    In 1816 the second British mission arrived, headed by Lord Amherst. He was allowed to reach
    Peking and was told upon his arrival, after a hard journey, that the Emperor Chia Chi’ng was even then awaiting him at the Summer Palace six miles north of the city. As the baggage had not come and the ambassador had no means of changing his travel-stained clothes, he refused to go on ; so the Emperor was kept waiting and was so indignant that he refused to see Lord Amherst at all. The mission therefore returned with nothing accomplished, but with a good deal of ill-will on both
    sides.
    Great Britain had, by this time, begun to take official cognizance of the value of trade with China. The East India Company had a monopoly of this traffic which expired in 1834, and the agreement between the Government and the Company was not renewed. Independent American trade with China had commenced in 1784, and many other nations were participating in 1834, so that England decided, when her Far Eastern trade was thrown open to free competition and private enterprise, to appoint a trade superintendent, a consul-general with full diplomatic powers—in other words, to promote British interests at Canton. The first incumbent was Lord Napier, who had
    no patience with Chinese methods if he had understood them. Without asking for permission to visit Canton through the intermediation of the 13 Hongs, as was customary, he proceeded to his post and attempted to open direct communications on a basis of equality with the Viceroy Lu K’un.
    His letter greatly incensed this potentate, who refused to see him at all, and promptly put a ban upon Chinese trade with the British. At this crucial juncture Lord Napier became very ill and had to go back to Macao, where he died shortly after. ”

    • Troll: d dan
  298. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    Further from Rodney Gilbert
    …continued
    “The Viceroy believed that he had registered a diplomatic victory, and was so pleased that he graciously permitted the resumption of trade. Napier’s successor got nowhere in his negotiations,
    but in 1836 a certain Captain Elliot was appointed trade superintendent, who, by a liberal use of soft-soap, won many concessions and laid the foundations of much future trouble. He addressed the Viceroy as a superior, accepted privileges as acts of grace, and in other ways encouraged the Chinese to believe that the British had knuckled under.

    About this time the Chinese began to discover that the national supply of silver bullion was being depleted. The British traders, representing a Company long established in India, had catered to the Chinese liking for opium, and had built up an enormous trade in the drug, in which all nationalities participated, though the British naturally had the advantage because they controlled what was then the principal source of supply. Chinese officials everywhere encouraged the traffic, though it was under Imperial ban, because their commissions were enormous.
    Exports amounted to little as compared with the opium import, and China soon learned that the foreigners were taking her silver out of the country by the shipload, thus depleting the nation’s stock and greatly enhancing the value of the metal.
    The Canton Viceroy was instructed to put an end to this business in a summary way, and did so. In 1839 the foreign companies at Canton were ordered to deliver up their opium stocks, and, being unable to resist, 20,000,000 chests were turned over to the authorities. The Viceroy was keen on sending this north as loot, but Peking ordered him to destroy the whole seizure, and, as there was then some discipline in official circles, the opium was mixed with lime and thrown into the sea.

    This act brought on China’s first real foreign war. The opium traffic was undoubtedly a heinous trade, but the officials at Canton had smiled upon it and profited by it; and their arbitrary seizure without warning of stocks valued at something like \$6,000,000 was naturally resented bitterly. This sum represented much more in those days than it does now. If foreigners were to continue to trade with China, such an action had to be challenged, and the burden of the responsibility fell upon the British. In 1840 China was faced for the first time with a real foreign war, though Peking was far from realizing the significance of it. It meant no more at Court than the impertinence of a clique of pirates operating on the coast, and was taken no more seriously. The eventual shock was therefore all the more humiliating. “

    • Troll: d dan
  299. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    India Its Administration And Progress by Sir John Strachey
    https://archive.org/download/in.ernet.dli.2015.278886/2015.278886.India-Its.pdf
    CHAPTER X: REVENUES OTHER THAN THOSE DERIVED FROM TAXATION , page 131
    “Next to the Land revenue and Salt, the most productive source of the public income in India is Opium. The gross amount of the opium revenue in 1900-01 was £5,102,000. The average net annual revenue shown under that head for the five years ending with that year was £2,540,000, but to this must be added revenue obtained from opium consumed in India and credited under the head of Excise.
    …snip….
    “Apart from moral considerations, the opium question, so far as India is concerned, is generally discussed as if it were one aflecting only the public resources of the Indian Administration, but it is much more far-reaching. The amount of revenue realised is but a part and not the greater part of the actual pecuniary value of the poppy crop and its products, while the well-being and happiness of hundreds of thousands of the people of India would be greatly affected by it’s extinction.

    “India is essentially an agricultural country, and nearly the whole of its exports consist of products of the soil. One of the most important and valuable of these products is the opium-yielding poppy. It is impossible to state with accuracy when this plant was first introduced into India. There is little record of its early history, but it is known that the Mohammedans had succeeded, in the fifteenth century, in introducing the cultivation of the poppy into Cambay and Malwa, and that when the Emperor Akbar, in the latter half of the next century, established the Moghal Empire over Central India, he found Malwa opium a characteristic product of that country. He and his successors regarded opium as of necessity a State monopoly. There is ample evidence to prove that a large trade had been going on in opium between India and surrounding countries long before the East India Company, in 1773, undertook the supervision of the manufacture of opium in Bengal, Behar, and Orissa.

    The Company, in fact, inherited from the Moghal Government this important and legitimate source of revenue on an article of luxury which India had shown itself capable of producing in high perfection, and for which there was a large demand both in and out of that country.At first they continued the system of farming the exclusive right of opium manufacture, but this was found to entail many abuses. Amongst them was the pressure brought by the contractors, in spite of the most stringent regulations to the contrary, on the cultivators, whom they forced to carry on the cultivation, and whom they cheated in various ways. It also led to the adulteration of the drug and its illicit sale. The consequences were so injurious to the revenue that, in 1797, the contract system was abandoned, and the Government assumed the monopoly of manufacture through its own agencies, a system which has remained in force until the present day. There was, indeed, at that time, no practicable alternative.
    …snip…
    On the other hand, if it ever entered into the conception of the Court of Directors to suppress, in the interests of morality, the cultivation of the poppy in the territories then in their possession, it is doubtful whether they would have had the power in those times to have done so, and it is certain that they could not have controlled the production of the vast poppy-growing tracts outside those territories in Malwa, Cambay, and elsewhere. The only result would have been that the opium consumers in India would have been supplied from sources outside British territory, and that the export trade would have been transferred to ports other than British, It would certainly have been impossible in those days to establish a Customs line to prevent the entry of opium into the Company’s possessions.
    The Company would have sacrificed its revenue, and no one would have been benefited except the people of the territories outside the Company’s possessions, at the expense of those within them. ”

    …snip…
    “Like most crops, the poppy is subject to wide seasonal fluctuations, which formerly greatly affected the market prices of opium, led to speculation and gambling amongst the buyers for export, and caused corresponding uncertainty in the Government revenue. When, owing to the shortness of the supply, the price in Calcutta rose high, the direct effect was to stimulate the production of other opium competing in the foreign market with the Bengal drug, and amongst these the native production of China. Thus — and I would call particular attention to this fact, as having an important bearing on the question before us — the diminution of the supply of Indian opium to China was an incentive to the extension of poppy cultivation in China.
    ..snip..
    “ Recognizing the fact that the Chinese demand a large supply of opium, and that to whatever extent India was unable to satisfy that demand, it would be met, either by increase of the produce in China itself or by increased imports from other countries, the Government of India has thought it right, in the interests of the people of India, to shape its measures so as not to lose the natural advantages India possesses in the superior quality of its produce. Any one familiar with the records of the Government of India relating to this subject, must admit this is a fair representation of its policy and motives, and that nowhere in those records can he found any indication of a desire to stimulate the consumption of opium by the Chinese.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @gatobart
    , @gatobart
    , @JohnH
  300. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    There is something you don’t understand, Malla. That everyone in this world could come out quoting a writer, a “scholar’, a historian or an expert backing his own opinions and views and that doesn’t mean anything, it doesn’t make them any credible authoritative or even logical or true. You are the best example of this kind of people when you go tossing around the names of some people only you seem to have heard about as if they were some kind of world eminences when they are so only in your own eyes. The best example of that is Miguel Serrano, the “father of Esoteric Nazism”, a Chilean born clown who hardly anyone knows in his own country, that no one among those who know him take him any seriously, and yet an individual that you worship, that to you represents a political and philosophical summit that everyone should know about, as you keep peddling his videos all over UR. So, I already know you are good for spreading around worthless bullshit from self-important clowns as if they were The Second Coming. You lie, you blatantly lie, so much so I could show, if I took the time, that the Encyclopedia Britannica debunks every piece of bullshit you are posting here but it is not worth the trouble. Para muestra un boton, as the Spanish say, a single button proves the point. It is enough to show you lying once to put everything you write under suspicion and to prove you are a liar. And that I have done it once and I can do it again.

    I already proved, with no less source that Britannia, the official website of the Encyclopedia Britannica, that you openly lied when stating that the British didn’t do any harm to the Chinese people with their Opium Wars, as according to you, the Chinese were already happy as a clam doping themselves to kingdom come with opium, and I showed that such was a Jupiter-size lie, that what the British really did was to launch a criminal, Pablo Escobar-like, war against the Chinese ruler who had decided to launch a wide anti-drug campaign by stopping British drug traffic, after watching the devastating effects it was having on his people. That said by the British themselves. But that never happened for you and you dig and dig until you find some obscure write willing to support your claims. You are really pathetic, a typical case of Gunga Din syndrome, or rather Uncle Gunga Syndrome.

    Then, I can prove once again that you lie when talking about the real motivations for the construction of the Indian railways system by the British. According to you it was all out of the goodness of their hearts, the loved Indians so much, and you even added that it was to spare Indians from famine. Yet, this is what the Encyclopedia Britannica has so say about this matter:

    “Britain’s major contribution to India’s economic development throughout the era of crown rule was the railroad network that spread so swiftly across the subcontinent after 1858, when there were barely 200 miles (320 km) of track in all of India. By 1869 more than 5,000 miles (8,000 km) of steel track had been completed by British railroad companies, and by 1900 there were some 25,000 miles (40,000 km) of rail laid. By the start of World War I (1914–18) the total had reached 35,000 miles (56,000 km), almost the full growth of British India’s rail net. Initially, the railroads proved a mixed blessing for most Indians, since, by linking India’s agricultural, village-based heartland to the British imperial port cities of Bombay, Madras, and Calcutta, they served both to accelerate the pace of raw-material extraction from India and to speed up the transition from subsistence food to commercial agricultural production”

    Further ahead:

    “The spread of railroads also accelerated the destruction of India’s indigenous handicraft industries, for trains filled with cheap competitive manufactured goods shipped from England now rushed to inland towns for distribution to villages, underselling the rougher products of Indian craftsmen. Entire handicraft villages thus lost their traditional markets of neighbouring agricultural villagers, and craftsmen were forced to abandon their looms and spinning wheels and return to the soil for their livelihood”
    https://www.britannica.com/event/British-raj

    So the usual story and the same thing that I quoted from Wikipedia, that you dishonestly rejected because you didn’t like it: Empire builds civil and commercial infrastructure in colony to bring to the metropolis raw materials from it and to send back to them manufactured products that, in some cases, ruin a nascent local industry. Case in point: India. Question: in what this differs from what was happening in other countries under British rule or with whom London had trade and exchange deals…?

    I may answer with what happened with Argentina, which was technically an almost member of the British Empire and which in a final count fared far better than India with its interaction with the British Empire. While the Empire both ruined and destroyed the local Indian textile industry, which was superior to the British itself at the beginning, so taking it out as competitor, Argentina (and its neighbor Chile) were greatly favored with their trade relations with the British Empire, as until at least ww1 their exports of meat and wheat (Arg.) and nitrates and raw metals (Chile) practically sustained their economies. The British Empire didn’t ruin or destroy the economies of Chile or Argentina, by taking out national economic or industrial sectors, quite opposite: it practically brought them both countries to the industrial age, to modernity. Argentina could have even become a developed country, another Canada or Australia, had not been for its parasitical elites wasting the astronomical revenues from their British trade making their capital Buenos Aires pretty. And yet, the British Empire didn’t go to Chile or Argentina as a Santa Claus, to save anyone from anything, it simply went to make trade deals, to take their raw materials, their meat and their wheat, their metal and nitrates, away exchanging all that for British –made industrial products. That was a win-win situation, something you don’t seem to have the foggiest idea what it is because it was never the case with your country.

    Contrary to what London did in the South Cone of the Americas, it practically destroyed both China and India as entities, economically and industrially, it set them back more than a century, it robbed them of their opportunity of becoming the real world powers of the XIX and XX Century. China and India, which both together by the 1800s were making for 40% of the total global GDP, became like countries in Central Africa under the yoke of British oppression, So when you say that the British Empire built roads & railways in India out of the goodness of their hearts (even to prevent famines…!) you are just bullshitting once again, as usual.

    • Agree: d dan, Deep Thought
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  301. gatobart says:
    @anon

    That must have been the same Vietnamese in the picture, who finally found a way to board a plane and get to the U.S. He still holds grudge, champ.

  302. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    In any case, as the Chinese say, a picture is worth a thousand words and in this case the picture is that of a chart. This simple chart is enough to debunk all the B.S. you have been spreading around, so anyone with half a brain could spare a lot of his time and watch it for a moment instead of reading your meandering krap.

    This is the chart of the share of the global GDP of several countries ever since year 1 D.C. Of course countries are included as they appear in History. India is marked in orange. See the astronomical-size drop in its share of the global GDP between the late 1700s and the early 1800s, by amazing coincidence the period during which the British Empire imposed its rule on India. This chart debunks all the bullcrap you have been spreading in this thread and more.

    BTW, see also another proof. That resolute, unwavering Chinese resistance to British rule during the XIX century paid off in the way that its GDP remained at traditional, very high, levels for most of that century. So, Malla, do you still believe that the British Raj was such a great thing for India…?

    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/2000-years-economic-history-one-chart/

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  303. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    That everyone in this world could come out quoting a writer, a “scholar’, a historian or an expert backing his own opinions and views and that doesn’t mean anything, it doesn’t make them any credible authoritative or even logical or true. You are the best example of this kind of people when you go tossing around the names of some people only you seem to have heard about as if they were some kind of world eminences when they are so only in your own eyes.

    What are you, a moron? Sir John Strachey was a civil servant in India, an expert on Indian administration. He knew Indian figures at the tip of his fingers. This is not any “scholar”. These are original sources. Lord Lytton was the Viceroy of India who PLANNED the expansion of the railways.

    It is not me who is lying, what we have seen is Marxist lying scum take over institutions and pushing their point of view like in Wikipedia and encyclopedia. And I can prove how this is done, to do this they exclude “uncomfortable” information. Of course they are funded by bankers and their march through the institutions means we have to go and check original documents.

    You are the one spreading bullshit and lies and I have debunked you many times on unz with ease. Your whole post is a hew haw and bullshit after you have been debunked spreading bullshit. You think by making stupid accusations, it will change facts. Nope it will not.

    that you openly lied when stating that the British didn’t do any harm to the Chinese people with their Opium Wars,

    I don’t lie shit. All I wrote are facts and you hew hawbecause I have had you debunked.

    they served both to accelerate the pace of raw-material extraction from India

    Plain lies and bullshit. Trade figures do not add up to this Marxist propaganda. India was not the main source of raw material (cotton) to British industries, the USA was, followed by Egypt. India came in at a distant third. The raw material was not extracted. It was bought at market prices. Are you guys fucking mad. India was a costly place to run, the Government of India was always short of funds for a number of reasons including low taxation rates. You think the Government of India, especially the British Raj would allow “extraction”. Most of Indian cotton was used by local industries and by Japanese and other Asian mills, not British.

    From Review of the Trade of India in 1924-25, Calcutta, Government of India Central Publication Branch, 1926, p. 73
    The record of raw cotton exported from India in the years 1924-25 is as follows, the unit being bales of 400 pounds:
    Japan 1,671,000
    Italy 485,000
    China (excluding Hong Kong) 284,000
    Belgium 201,000
    Germany 174,000
    The United Kingdom 162,000
    Of the Indian raw cotton exported to England the Lancashire looms used little because of its inferior quality, buying, rather, in Egypt and in America.

    India’s total raw cotton export, in 1924-25, was 3,326,400 bales. Her consumption in Indian mills during that period was 2,050,891 bales.

    From Review of the Trade of India in 1924-25, Calcutta, Government of India Central Publication Branch, 1926, pp. 21-2.

    Japan’s purchase was mostly of the poorer grades of Indian and other cotton and was mainly used in competing in China with the product of India’s mills. In 1924 there were 337 cotton mills in British India. These are nearly all Indian-owned and as a rule have British superintendents and foremen, with Indian labor.

    INDIA EXPORTED MORE CLOTH AFTER 1880 PER YEAR DURING BRITISH EMPIRE DAYS THAN IT HAD DONE IN ITS ENTIRE HISTORY.
    Stephen Broadberry and Bishnupriya Gupta: The Rise, Organization, and Institutional Framework of Factor Markets, 23-25 June 2005
    http://www.iisg.nl/hpw/intro.php
    “However, high silver wages in Britain as a result of high productivity in other tradable goods and services, meant that British manufacturers could not use labour-intensive Indian production methods. Broadberry and Gupta (2005) show that an unskilled labourer in India earned little more than 20 per cent of the English unskilled wage as early as 1600, when Indian wages are converted to pounds sterling at the prevailing exchange rate. Low Indian wages acted as a spur to labour-saving technical progress in the British cotton textile industry. As British productivity increased, a point was reached where Britain’s higher wages were more than offset so that unit labour costs were lower in Britain and the reversal of competitive advantage occurred. However, the shift was delayed in international markets during the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries by rising wage and raw cotton prices in Britain as the increase in production put pressure on labour and material input markets. The shift in competitiveness in the Indian market was delayed further by transport costs, which continued to give Indian producers an advantage in their home market until the 1860s (Ellison, 1886: 63; Twomey, 1983).”

    And from the 1880s, India became a major exporter of cloth again using British technology. The Industrial Revolution reached India before China and Japan. Also the British Raj, Government of India was accused by British industries for protecting Indian textile industries which they found unfair.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  304. Otoh_imho says:
    @obwandiyag

    John McCain said in a TV documentary that when Robert McNamara visited his carrier and spoke to the pilots he seemed interested mainly in how much ordnance was being delivered and not much else. The little light should have gone on in his head but never did. But for two-time Marine Medal of Honor winner Smedley Butler, it finally did, and he wrote his epic War is a Racket (available free on line through Gutenberg.)

  305. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    Truth hurts. The ony defence is to deny it.

    Truth hurts in many directions. And we see denials from many parties.

    So “obvious” that his peers did not see it.

    They saw it alright. But they have something called “ideological blinkers”.

    And the Jewish owned “Western media” has been running a concerted campaign in demonizing China and the Chinese since before Dumb Trump was president. I must be right that it is blaming China!

    I am sorry to hear that. Trump is “Dumb” for you guys, sure.

    There is also the “Alternative Media” in the West, such as UNZ.com, in which the Jews are blamed by the whites for practically every ill

    Websites like Unz have sprung up BECAUSE mainstream media does not allow many discussions. If healthy criticism of Jews would have been allowed in mainstream media, we would have not seen it here.
    And It is not only the Whites who blame Jews.
    Blacks do too.

    Farrakhan Speaks On The Jews And The Media

    Iranian Ayatollah Alireza Ebadi: The Jews Are the Biggest Problem for Islam and Humanity

    Wrong! The white nationalists have even greater power on their governments than 20 years ago but they have now turned their hegemonic attentions from Afghanistan to China!!!

    Are you out of your mind, is your head stuck up your ass? White Nationalists are persecuted by the occupied Government of the USA. White Nationalists have nothing against Afghanistan or China.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  306. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    The Wumaos DON’T care about the Indian nationalists–

    Indian nationalists do not even know Wumaos even exist. Indeed the idea that a “Imperialist” nation like China would have Nationalists is something weird for the Indian Masses. It makes zero difference to Indian nationalists. Indian nationalists consider China a backstabbing, Imperialist country and India the resistance. They will not rest till they take every inch of India back. And they will want revenge for the “backstab” in 1962. Indians are slow but take action anyways, remember everything and eventually do take their revenge. That is why India is compared to an elephant as mascot. Look at how the Hindutvas came to power, slow and steady. Revenge for 800 years of “brutality” by Muslims will happen.
    I do not personally support them. But that is what they are.

    A diversion from you. The original point of argument was about their praising of an India which, in your own words, was:

    You have misunderstood. I am talking about the bureaucracy who are NOT elected but go through strict competitive exams and selection process. I am talking about them losing accountability. This has nothing to do with democracy. Besides partial democracy started in India BEFORE 1947 at the request of us Indians ourselves. There was devolution of power from the beginning of the 1900s and reforms. By the early 1900s, many powers were already transferred to elected Indian elected into legislative councils.
    Anyways as far as the bureaucracy losing accountability.
    From Vishnu Khare (1997). Five Decades of Free India
    Most government servants and workers in the so-called public sector began shirking work by 1957. Rumours of bribery and corruption began to be widely heard. Freedom became freedom from honest public service. As for almost everything one had to go to various offices several times, even a petty clerk holding a file became a centre of power. Soon the elderly began to say openly that the British Raj was better, for there was no injustice, delay and corruption on such a scale in pre-1947 times – not many seniors of that era are still alive but the refrain keeps returning in community conversations among those who were barely young 50 years ago.”
    I am talking about the bureaucracy, who are not elected but selected by tough exams by a strict meritocratic process. It has nothing to do with democracy.

  307. Thanks Fred for another detailed insider view of current events. The strange thing is that now that this debacle is sort of winding down, within a few years the people who get rich from these pageants will concoct another, their media accomplices will sell it (to the few who pay attention), and off we go again. I wonder if when the definitive history of the fall of the empire is written, the Military Industrial Media Complex will be given its rightful “credit”.

  308. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    Once again, I have to come to the unavoidable conclusion that you are an individual who lives in a deep state of denial, which is unfortunately true for many of you Indians. You can’t simply accept the reality of the devastating cost that had for your country, in every possible aspect, economic, political, psychological, more than a century of British colonial yoke, of which India has never recuperated by the way. No wonder you remain the biggest third World country on the planet and with little hope of ever becoming anything else, the best and clearest harbinger for the future being the way you both, India and China, have handled the COVID10 pandemic. No use to argue or even paying attention to people who prefer to live in their fantasy world rather than to face the stark reality. That is why people in denial are incapable of ever improving their situation, because to do that they would need to get in touch with reality in the first place.

    So, keep bullshitting yourself, keep living in a fantasy world where British colonial rule, and the destruction of an emerging world economic and industrial power at the end of the XVIII century, were the most wonderful things to ever happen to India, despite the atrocious and everlasting consequences, not the least the shrinking of the Indian GDP to a value less than 40% of its original only in one generation or two.

    One interesting piece of data for comparison. By 1942 the GDP of the Soviet Union had dropped in a 34% compared to its value of June 1941. That is a 1/3 drop. And that as the result or total war and genocide. On the other hand, as the chart I posted shows, the drop in the Indian GDP in just one generation as the result of British imposed rule, was of about 60%…! i.e. the Indian GDP descended to about 40% of its initial value. Yet according to Professor Malla this was the most wonderful event ever happening in modern Indian History…! Can you ever argue with a guy like that…?

    BTW, what kind of an idiot presents, as an “evidence” of the wonderful consequences for India of British imperial rule, the writtings of a British colonial administrator…? While at it, why don’t you present us, as evidence of the marvelous consequences for Poland of Nazi military occupation, the reports to the Fuhrer by General Governor Hans Frank…? But no, Malla is not an idiot but simply a man in a state of deep denial, as i said, which makes him act in such a stupid way, that is what happens to people in deep denial.

    • Replies: @Malla
  309. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    Chinese say, a picture is worth a thousand words and in this case the picture is that of a chart.

    The Chinese are a wise people in general, and I admire many of their traits and their civilization. they however have some….. which we have too unfortunately.
    Anyways a picture is truly worth a thousand words but it takes brains to interpret it correctly and understand the dynamics behind all that. it also takes brains to actually READ the webpage one links. LMFAO. But commonsense is not that common. That is one more saying BTW.

    Firstly these are guesstimates by Angus Maddison. Explain to me genius, how in God’s name does one calculate the GDP of Africa in 1000 AD. Tell me, how it is done. There are no written records,nothing. And do not bring me Mali Songhai or Timbuktu or King Musa’s Gold stack, they are not all of Africa and we do not have detailed records about those Kingdoms, they are lost.
    So next, since Africa is part of the World and African GDP is part of World GDP, how do you get World GDP total say in 1000 AD if we do not know the GDP of one component of the World, Africa for example. And if we do not know total, how do we get percentages of that fictitious total?????
    Think boy, think. Forget Africa, we have very little records of economic history of India in say 1000 AD even though India was a great civilization. You can get indirect methods such as finding sunken merchant ships in a particular year to get some clue about trade in that era, but that is crude too.
    That is why the website you linked writes
    “If you looked at the chart in any depth, you probably noticed a big problem with it. The time periods between data points aren’t equal – in fact, they are not close at all.
    The first gap on the x-axis is 1,000 years and the second is 500 years. Then, as we get closer to modernity, the chart uses mostly 10 year intervals. Changing the scale like this is a big data visualization “no no”, as rightly pointed out in a blog post by The Economist.
    While we completely agree, we have a made an exception in this case. Why? Because getting good economic data from the early 20th century is already difficult enough – and so trying to find data in regular intervals before then seems like a fool’s errand.”
    Comprende???
    It is comparatively easier to get some more accurate idea about GDP/capita or standard of living compared to total GDP if you can get some information about say price of grain w.r.t say gold at a particular era in a particular civilization. Such information is much easier to get. You could even check out the height of individuals of skeletons in a particular ear to get an idea about standard of living and food consumption. That is why GDP/capita guesstimates are far more accurate than total GDP guesstimates. And Angus Maddison’s research proves that already by 1600 AD when the English East India Company was first formed, England already had the second highest per capita income in the Whole World after the Netherlands.

  310. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    On the other hand, as the chart I posted shows, the drop in the Indian GDP in just one generation as the result of British imposed rule, was of about 60%…

    My God, what a moron. Really SMH
    This proves that I am dealing with a low IQ certified monkey. Drop in percentage of World’ economy does not mean fall in economy as the World economy was expanding, you low IQ imbecile. Did you pass your school? Is schooling in Chile so poor? Din’t you guys have logic subject? And Maths?

    OK I have explained this many times on Unz, now I will first play this video by Aakar Patel.

    Aaker Patel at says at 4:21 minutes to 5:30 minutes
    “We are a nation of becharas (victims), we like the idea of blaming everybody else for our problems.
    If you look back in history I will make two very brief points.
    The Suratis (Gujratis), I come from Surat, we begged the British to save us from the Marathas. We fell into their arms weeping.
    In Calcutta, the Oswal Jains, they financed and exceuted Plassey. They wanted the British, because the rump of the Mughal Empire was so incompetent, we needed somebody to come and save us. All of that is forgotten when we move into the Congress era after the beginning of 20th century.
    On the economic side, it must be said that when the World’s economy was one man ploughing his land, we had a fifth of the share that is fine. Once Boyle and Hook and all the rest of them come in after 1760s after the Reformation, Europe changed, we remained where we were. It is not as if our wealth was taken from India and dumped in Europe somewhere. It is that Europe picked it self up and rose. It remains there today. I think, these are some things we need to tell ourselves which we are not very good at doing. ”

    Basically before the industrial revolution, India having great agricultural land may have had a great share of the World economy, India was already like 25% of the World economy at that time. But when the Industrial Revolution came, productivity of some economies increased and their share of Global economy increased. This has nothing to do with any looting. The whole World economy expanded enormously after the Industrial revolution and most of that expansion took place in the Industrialised World. And no, India was not industrialized, indeed India had her Industrial revolution before Japan and China. It was lower worker productivity and a more traditional society resistant to change which led to slower growth in India. Economist Eduard Landes has covered this in detail in his book.
    The USA was not much of a factor in 1600 but by 1950 it was 50% of global GDP. This was bound to push and squeeze out others. It is like a fat woman entering a coach and taking space, it will squeeze out others. Have you thought of that?
    http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/essay/economic-lessons-from-the-raj
    Myth number two is that India declined from being an economic superpower under the Mughals to a de-industrialised colonial wasteland. True, Mughal India in 1700 accounted for 25 per cent of world Gross Domestic Product, a statistic often misquoted to prove economic success, except when one remembers that India also had 25 per cent of the world’s population. Far more revealing are statistics of per capita GDP compiled by the Maddison Project, generally accepted as the most authoritative guide to global prosperity from ancient Roman times to the present.

    The Maddison figures show that India’s per capita GDP was only half that of Britain’s in 1600, when the Mughal Empire was at its peak. Thereafter India witnessed steady economic decline, with its trade heavily dependent on textile exports increasingly unable to compete with cheaper European cloth. That’s because the Mughal economy offered neither incentives nor opportunity for labour-saving technological innovation. Eighty per cent of its territories were allocated to a rentier class of jagirdars, who creamed off any agricultural surplus for their own luxurious lifestyles. Because their tenure was restricted to a few years, they had no incentive to reinvest their rents in improved productivity. Capital costs were prohibitively high, with interest rates double the 6 per cent average in Britain and peaking as high as 40 per cent in pre-colonial Bengal.

    That’s not the propaganda of colonial apologists but the judgement of eminent Indian historians as diverse as the Marxist Irfan Habib and the nationalist Tapan Raychaudhuri. ‘Not only was the Mughal state its own gravedigger,’ concluded Habib, ‘but no new order was or could be created by the forces ranged against it.’

    Both Habib and Western economists like Angus Maddison have agreed that the Mughal land revenue system was far more exploitative than anything later devised by the Company Sahib or the Raj. It’s estimated that the Mughal elite creamed off an average 15 per cent of national income for its own consumption, compared with a mere 5 per cent by the British. Under the rapacious warlords who succeeded the Mughals, land revenue demands soared as high as 50 per cent of production to fund their local wars.

    India in 1750, on the eve of the British conquest, had no scientific or technological research, no machinery, no mechanical tools. Its labour-intensive textiles were bound to suffer dramatically, whoever ruled, once cheaper European industrial goods captured their markets. This economic challenge coincided with a period of fierce regional wars, following the collapse of Mughal authority, which devastated both agriculture and manufacturing across vast swathes of the Subcontinent. It was a situation which left the European-ruled ports as the only safe havens for Indian commerce, prompting a migration of business communities like Marwaris from declining inland cities like Benares and Mathura to Calcutta, Madras and Bombay.”

  311. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    it practically destroyed both China and India as entities, economically and industrially, it set them back more than a century, it robbed them of their opportunity of becoming the real world powers of the XIX and XX Century.

    What rubbish. Britain did not even rule most of China, you stupid moron. How did it destroy something it had no control over? Indeed the most industrially advanced places of China in those days were those areas under European rule and most of all Japanese Manchukuo. Japanese Empire Manchukuo was the most industrialized part of China (if you consider it part of China) with a record growth of 40%. After WW2, all those industries were looted by the Soviets and given to the Chinese Communists. That part of China remained the industrial heartland of China for a long time afterwards.
    As far as India, British Empire actually industrialized India. Not deindustrialised.
    https://openthemagazine.com/cover-stories/freedom-issue-2018/essay-freedom-issue-2018/economic-lessons-from-the-raj/
    Myth number three is that our colonial rulers deliberately de-industrialised India by flooding it with machine-made British goods at the expense of Indian manufacturing. The Company certainly had no links with the satanic mills of Lancashire, nor any interest in selling their products. Its own trading interests lay in selling Indian goods to Europe, so it lobbied hard to lower British tariffs on them and also to raise protective Indian tariffs. That it failed to do so was a measure of the extent to which Europe’s Industrial Revolution was inevitably turning the economic tide against traditional cottage industries worldwide.

    Even so, recent research has demonstrated that European industrial competition, though far from being a zero-sum game, created winners as well as losers. Cheaper factory-made British yarn may have hit Indian spinners but was a boon for weavers, who could now source cheaper supplies and produce a more competitive end-product. Although textile exports declined, domestic demand grew, with per capita cloth consumption increasing from 5.8 sq yards per year in 1750 to 7.4 sq yards in 1850. Handlooms held their own in the production of saris, but lost out to machine-made men’s clothing.

    By the 1850s, a massive road-building programme by the East India Company had given Indian trade 2,600 km of newly metalled highways, including, of course, the Grand Trunk Road

    Far from being wiped out by colonial competition, actual numbers in the handloom sector remained stable throughout most of the colonial period, ending with the same number in 1947 as in 1750. Cheap yarn imports also freed weavers from being tied to regional spinning centres and enabled them to move closer to the ports, where they forged new links with mercantile houses, sowing the seeds of India’s own infant textile factories. India’s population increased from 170 million in 1750 to 425 million in 1947, a sure indicator of reduced famines and improved public health.

    Myth number four is that imperial trade was a one-way flow, with cheap Indian raw materials extracted to supply British industry. The Raj created a Subcontinent-wide single market or customs union, which would have been the envy of the European Union today and which hugely expanded both internal and foreign trading opportunities for Indian merchants. By the 1850s, a massive road-building programme by the East India Company had given Indian trade 2,600 km of newly metalled highways, including, of course, the Grand Trunk Road. By 1913, India also had the world’s largest canal system and its fourth largest rail network.

    This new transport revolution transformed agriculture and commerce by enormously speeding up flows of goods and price information. The railways lowered freight costs by as much as 90 per cent in the mid-19th century, compared with their predecessor, the bullock-cart. Based on the volume of freight traffic in 1900, the social savings brought by rail amounted to as much as Rs 1.2 billion or 9 per cent of national income. Detailed statistical studies at Cambridge University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) have demonstrated that railways raised real incomes by an average of 16 per cent in the districts they reached.

    India’s foreign trade also benefitted from British command of the seas. Imperial naval protection helped Gujarati merchants like the Khojas trade with East Africa and the Gulf, establishing business networks that still survive. The other hugely lucrative opportunity for Indian merchants was the British-protected China trade in tea, cotton, indigo, jute and, notoriously, opium. The wealth from such commerce found its way into new banks and joint stock companies, established on the basis of newly introduced Western- style company law, and fed infant stock markets. The managing agency system, later reviled by Indian socialists, allowed scarce managerial skills to be pooled across companies, while protecting them from hostile takeovers.

    From 1913 to 1938, Indian manufacturing output grew at an annual 5.6 per cent, well above the world average of 3.3 per cent and a growth rate we would welcome today

    By the 1850s, India’s own industrial revolution was taking off, fuelled by a virtuous economic circle of faster internal transport, increased commerce and agricultural productivity, rapidly expanding export markets and the resulting much-needed capital accumulation in an economy long starved of venture capital. Far from blaming colonialism, development economists now agree that India’s chronic capital shortage was largely due to geographical and climatic factors.

    If globalisation is defined as the capacity to buy the knowledge, goods and services one needs in global markets, the British Empire led the modern world in the first great wave of globalisation in the 19th century. India was at its heart and a major beneficiary of the new openness and cosmopolitanism. The Empire offered free movement of capital and labour and relatively free trade in goods. A Bombay mill-owner could set up with borrowed British capital and the latest machinery and skilled foremen from Manchester. India’s first cotton mills opened in 1851, preceding Japan by 20 years and China by 40. They were soon beating Manchester at its own game, supplying 76 per cent of India’s textile demand by 1945.

  312. gatobart says:

    As I said, there is no point trying to argue with a man who is living in a fantasy world because facing the historic truth is just too painful for him. It is like trying to reason with a drunk after his tenth cup or a dopehead during one of his bad trips.

    And the Indian historic truth is that after the British East India Company took complete control of the country in 1757, India’s GDP plummeted (you can even amplify the GDP chart and use a ruler to approximate the year in it). The process continued unabated after the British Crown took control from the EIC in 1858 after a rebellion.

    “Company rule in India effectively began in 1757 after the Battle of Plassey and lasted until 1858 when, following the Indian Rebellion of 1857, the Government of India Act 1858 led to the British Crown assuming direct control of India in the form of the new British Raj”
    Wikipedia

    There are very few things on which the whole world agrees and one of those things is the value of the GDP of a country as the best sign of its economic activity. Values don’t always reflect reality but in most cases give a good approximation. And whatever way you want to see it, after the imposition of British rule on India in 1757, its GDP dropped to 40% of its initial value, but of course a fool who prefers living in denial won’t see it even if put in front of his eyes.

    • Replies: @Malla
  313. gatobart says:

    As for quoting experts, we can all play that game. And how about quoting the most interested part and the one who actually had to live through it and not the ones who inflicted empire on the Indians or those delusional fruticakes who actually think that military occupation by an empire is the very best thing that could happen to any nation…? From globalresearch.ca:

    How and by how much did Britain rob India?

    “After the betrayal and defeat of the Nawab of Bengal, Siraj ud-daulah, at the Battle of Plassey in 1757, the British installed their own puppet, Mir Jafar, as Nawab. The British extracted huge concessions from the defeated Bengalis including land, a monopoly of trade with Europe, and exemption from taxation on internal trade. The British subsequently replaced Mir Jafar with Mir Kasim as Nawab of Bengal. The Bengalis under Mir Kasim were finally driven to revolt when he was in turn sacked by the British and replaced by Mir Jafar for a second term. The Bengalis were defeated at the Battle of Buxar in 1764 , and in 1765 the Moghul Emperor Shah Alam was “persuaded” to grant the power of taxation (diwani) in Bengal to the British East India Company. The British in turn sub-contracted rapacious revenue collection to Bengalis.

    Some of the revenue would go the Emperor and some to the Nawab, with the remainder being retained by the British. The British described this as “farming” the Bengali peasants (ryots), but over-taxing of Bengalis meant that 10 million Bengalis perished in the Great Bengal Famine of 1769-1770. The East India Company used about one third of the collected revenue to buy Indian goods and thus the Bengalis were in effect being paid for their goods through the exorbitant taxes applied to them. 15 years later, exorbitant British taxation led to famine in the Gangetic plain to the west of Bengal. Indeed such British excesses led to the British Parliament (unsuccessfully) impeaching Warren Hastings (first Governor General of India and father by adultery of Jane Austen’s cousin Eliza) for crimes such as the violation of the Begums of Oudh – he was of course eventually acquitted [6].

    By the 1840s the East India Company had dominion over most of present-day India, Pakistan and Bangladesh but the British Government was increasingly keen for greater involvement in the exploitative proceedings. In 1847 the British Government introduced a scheme whereby those wishing to buy Indian goods could only do so using Council Bills issued by the British Crown in London. Traders would pay for such Bills in gold and silver and use them to pay Indian producers who would in turn cash them in for rupees at the local colonial office – rupees that been exacted by exorbitant taxation [5].

    In his book “Inglorious Empire. What the British did to India”, Shashi Tharoor describes how the British looted and de-industrialized India and thus paid for Britain’s Industrial Revolution and violent global dominance: “At the beginning of the eighteenth century, as the British economic historian Angus Maddison has demonstrated, India’s share of the world economy was 23 per cent, as large as all of Europe put together. (It had been 27 per cent in 1700, when the Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb’s treasury raked in £100 million in tax revenues alone.) By the time the British departed India, it had dropped to just over 3 per cent. The reason was simple: India was governed for the benefit of Britain. Britain’s rise for 200 years was financed by its depredations in India” ([7], page 3 [8]). This deadly and merciless taxation was accompanied by massive de-industrialization of India. Thus before the invasion by the British, India led the world in textiles, agriculture and metallurgy, but rapidly became an exporter of raw materials and an importer of goods manufactured in Britain [6- 8].

    Professor Utsa Patnaik’s estimate of Britain’s theft from India amounting to \$45 trillion (1765-1938) [3-5] can be compared with estimates based on GDP considerations… From available data on India’s GDP and India’s share of world GDP since 1700 [10, 11] one can get a very rough estimate of what India’s cumulative GDP could have been from 1700-2003 if the British had not robbed and raped India.
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/legacy-of-colonialism-britain-robbed-india-of-45-trillion-and-thence-1-8-billion-indians-died-from-deprivation/5663351

    The article is very illustrative and very detailed and even most important, written by Indian scholars, not by colonial administrators of the British Empire. But take notice of this segment, which says it all, that confirms what the GDP shows and the best of all, these are the words of none other than a British economist, not an Indian one:

    “At the beginning of the eighteenth century, as the British economic historian Angus Maddison has demonstrated, India’s share of the world economy was 23 per cent, as large as all of Europe put together. (It had been 27 per cent in 1700, when the Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb’s treasury raked in £100 million in tax revenues alone.) By the time the British departed India, it had dropped to just over 3 per cent”

    There you have itt: a GDP that plummets from 23% before British rule to…3% after it…! That stated by a British economist. But as I said before, don’t try to make a delusional fool face the stark reality because he hates it and he hates you.

  314. Leaving Afghanistan in ruins? Afghanistan has always been in ruins. Not worth the bones of a single Navy SEAL.

    Surprised Fred didn’t mention the role of the opium/heroin trade in his list of “things” involved in our adventures in both the ‘Stan and SE Asia…

  315. @Malla

    They saw it alright. But they have something called “ideological blinkers”.

    “ideological blinkers” can come from “many directions”!

    I am sorry to hear that. Trump is “Dumb” for you guys, sure.

    Not just to “you guys”:

    More pain than gain: How the US-China trade war hurt America

    Despite Trump’s claim that “trade wars are good, and easy to win,” the ultimate results of the phase one trade deal between China and the United States — and the trade war that preceded it — have significantly hurt the American economy without solving the underlying economic concerns that the trade war was meant to resolve.

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/08/07/more-pain-than-gain-how-the-us-china-trade-war-hurt-america/

    How China Won Trump’s Trade War and Got Americans to Foot the Bill

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-11/how-china-won-trump-s-good-and-easy-to-win-trade-war

    Websites like Unz have sprung up BECAUSE mainstream media does not allow many discussions. If healthy criticism of Jews would have been allowed in mainstream media, we would have not seen it here.

    Then you are admitting that they (even the Blacks) do blame the Jews– either in the mainstream media or alternative media, see

    And It is not only the Whites who blame Jews.
    Blacks do too.

    White Nationalists are persecuted by the occupied Government of the USA.

    North America is occupied by whites. Who are occupying the “Government of the USA”?

    Indian nationalists do not even know Wumaos even exist.

    The term “Wumao” was used by Indian nationalistic web-warriors some 2 decades ago in their web-wars with Wumaos on other forums. So, they must know about “Wumaos” for at least that long.

    And they will want revenge for the “backstab” in 1962.

    Then China will have to prepare for that day. Alternatively, the 2 countries might resolve their border disputes before then.

    You have misunderstood.

    Maybe, you and I missed what the other meant. No point for further arguments.

    • Replies: @Malla
  316. gatobart says:

    As I had the time I actually took a cursory look at the avalanche of insanity uploaded lately in this thread by “Professor” Malla and I got to say, after reading only part of it that, if insanity, ignorance, stupidity and inane foul mouthing was what I was looking for, I can’t say I have been disappointed. As I already mentioned, for this “Professor” the British Empire was a Godsend gift to India and the best thing that could have happened to that country in his History and the great pity is that it had to end at some point in time. No matter if every piece of data and information available, even from the British themselves, as I will show (once more), says the exact opposite. But let’s just take a look at the insane babble and ignorant crap this “Professor” pukes out at some point:

    “It is not me who is lying, what we have seen is Marxist lying scum take over institutions and pushing their point of view like in Wikipedia and encyclopedia”

    There you have it. Commies have even taken over already Wikipedia and the very prestigious Encyclopedia Britannica. I guess also the mind of Henry Kissinger and his publishers, because the first time I read the statistics about China and India making for 40% of the global GPD in the early 1800s was in a quote attributed to him by a newspaper columnist. Well, (sigh) at least YT should be free if all that Marxist rabble, as “Professor” Malla sees them. Oh, wait….

    The Dark Forgotten Truth About The British Empire

    History Summarized: Colonial India

    How Britain Stole \$45 Trillion from India with rains | Empires of Dirt

    How did Britain Conquer India? | Animated History

    I’m shocked. All these four videos, the first two by Brits, tell us the same tale of military conquest, repression by torture and gunfire of any nationalistic impulses by Indians and also of plunder and exploitation by the British Crown that I have alluded to and about which practically the entire world agrees. They all describe British rule as a curse, a Hell on Earth. No British Santa Claus, just another predatory empire as all the others before it. And mind you, this is the same YT that deletes my comments where I debunk the myth of the Tiananmen Square massacre, even when I include direct quotes from on-site correspondents from NYT (Nicholas Kristoff) and Reuters so you can’t accuse YT of being controlled by Commies also.

    That takes cares of the delusional angle. As for paranoid one, how about this gem, which also showcases complete and utter ignorance:

    “If you looked at the chart in any depth, you probably noticed a big problem with it. The time periods between data points aren’t equal–in fact they are not close at all.
    The first gap on the x-axis is 1,000 years and the second is 500 years. Then, as we get closer to modernity, the chart uses mostly 10 year intervals. Changing the scale like this is a big data visualization “no no”, as rightly pointed out in a blog post by The Economist”

    That shows best than anything that “Professor” Malla doesn’t know the first thing about charts and graphs, so he has probable never been inside a university in his self-important life, let alone to study Sciences, Mathematics or Engineering, because this kind of chart is every day’s bread for any student, reason for which I suspect he doesn’t even have a clue about what a logarithmic scale is.(This is not one of course, but simply one where the timeline is compressed for purely visual purposes. Because see, if you are dealing with literate, intelligent people, you can compress a chart, a curve, knowing that your readers will understand it) ) In fact, anyone working with statistics or with
    scientific data, or in the drawing of data charts, will probably be very familiar with this kind of graph and has found far more charts and graphs like this one in his career, nonlinear, logarithmic many times, especially in the most advances disciplines, Modern Physics, Quantum Mechanics or Astronomy, than the only ones Doctor Malla seem to have known in his life, those marked with regular intervals of the same length in both axes, mostly used in elementary school. So, it is official, this guy doesn’t have a clue of what he is talking about.

    As for pure ignorance and/or stupidity:

    “Firstly these are guesstimates by Angus Maddison. Explain to me genius, how in God’s name does one calculate the GDP of Africa in 1000 AD. Tell me, how it is done. There are no written records, nothing. And do not bring me Mali Songhai or Timbuktu or King Musa’s Gold stack, they are not all of Africa and we do not have detailed records about those Kingdoms, they are lost”

    Now, anyone who has ever frequented a high level educational institution, let alone to learn History and/or Economics, knows that primitive societies like those that existed in Africa for most of their History, and those in the Americas until at least the Conquest, were simply surviving, they didn’t create value, surplus value in Marxist lingo or prosperity and growth in modern economic language, so everything they did was to provide themselves with the basics for survival: food, clothing and shelter so their societies were stuck in a static situation when it came to economic development, so even trying to detect any measurable GDP in their societies would have been a futile task. But that doesn’t’ stop Professor Mall from raging about Africans and American Indians not being included in this world chart, which of course for him invalidates it…!

    Anyway, as an appropriate conclusion, a definition:

    Paranoid Psychosis: (or Delusional disorder) is a type of mental illness in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue.

    • Replies: @Malla
  317. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    And the Indian historic truth is that after the British East India Company took complete control of the country in 1757, India’s GDP plummeted (you can even amplify the GDP chart and use a ruler to approximate the year in it).

    Again you keep on proving, you are a low IQ monkey. In 1757, the British conquered Bengal, NOT ALL OF INDIA. And the guestimate chart shows, Indian GDP start falling from 1700 AD WAY BEFORE THE BRITISH conquered all of INDIA. After Bengal, it took the British a 100 years to conquer the rest of India. So before their conquests, India’s GDP was falling.
    You obviously have zero brains for fart. India’s economy was growing, it was just that Western economies were growing faster. The whole global economy was growing the the economy of the West was driving most of that growth which is independent of colonialism. India’s economic percentage had already started falling from the 12th century and many Hinduvadi crackpots (very similar in LOW IQ to their their enemy Marxist crackpot liars) blame Islamic rule for that. But that has more to do with rising productivity in the West from the 12th century. The productivity rise increased extremely fast in the Industrial revolution period squeezing out other traditional economies. Persia too saw a fall in share, it was no colony. Also the USA was not a major economic factor in the earlier days but by 1950 the USA was 50% of Global GDP, that would squeeze out share of other less industrialised nations further. ‘

    its GDP dropped to 40% of its initial value,

    Chilean education system is really rubbish. You really are a low IQ moron.
    OK, I will give you an example, which can be used for children to explain.
    Say a group of people have 100 mangoes and out of that I, Malla have 25 mangoes. So what percentage of all mangoes I have? 25%. Comprende?
    After 5 hours more mangoes come in and total mango count increases to 200 for the entire group and out of that mine increases to 30. So what is my percentage now? 15%. (30 out of 200)
    So get this straight low IQ school drop out. Even if my number of mangoes have increased from 25 30 i.e. my mango economy has increased, my percentage share of the total has actually DECREASED from 25% to 15%. Just because my percentage share decreased from 25% to 15% DOES NOT MEAN MY MANGOES have reduced or my mango economy has shrunk.
    Comprende? I know you are slow and dim witted, for all of Unz.com to see but that is the best I could do to explain.

  318. Pieter says:

    What happened to Linda?

  319. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    “After the betrayal and defeat of the Nawab of Bengal, Siraj ud-daulah, at the Battle of Plassey in 1757, the British installed their own puppet, Mir Jafar, as Nawab. The British extracted huge concessions from the defeated Bengalis including land, a monopoly of trade with Europe, and exemption from taxation on internal trade.

    Now you even get you history wrong. Nawab Shirj Ud Daulah was an autocratic King who angered the banker Jagat Seth Jains. He even threatened them to forcefully convert him to Islam. On the other hand Mir Jaffar, his commander and relative was angered that the Nawab had given promotion to a “lowly” Hindu over him, a “superior” Muslim.
    The conquest of Plassey took place in between the 7 years war in between Britain and France, which many historians consider a World war before WW1. Britain and his allies fought France and his allies on three continents, Europe, North America (Native Americans allied by their free will to either side) and Asia (Indian powers allied by their free will to either side). The French were the ones who had started interfering in Indian politics, the British stuck strictly to trade. French Governor General of India Dupleix was allied to Mysore power of Hyder Ali and Bahadur Jung. The English EIC were afraid that the French would force the English out of its India trade and to prevent it, too got involved in Indian politics. There is not one shred of evidence that the English had any desire to conquer India.
    During the Battle of Plassey, Siraj Ud Daulah, the Nawab of Bengal was allied to the French and his enemies (Mir Jaffar, Jagat Seth) allied themselves to the English. In the battle of Plassey the English won. Siraj Ud Daulah took his loot and was trying to escape and was killed.
    In the early East India Company rule over Bengal there was exploitation because most of the early East India Company was made up of merchants who were paid low salaries and was allowed their own private trade. The early exploitation of Bengal is accepted by all colonial scholars. But later on as aristocrats started coming in, the corruption was stamped out. Robert Clive was sent a second time to Bengal to stamp out corruption. The Company directors took steps to reverse the abuse later by reserving internal trade for Indian merchants and keeping foreign trade with themselves. Mir Jaffar was making a secret alliance with the Dutch Empire in Batavia, Dutch East Indies against the English and Dutch VOC ships had sailed for Bengal, before he was deposed. So this colonial exploitation took place for a few early decades in its 200 years history and it was stamped out. You also do not know that the British East India Company became bankrupt several times.
    As far as the battle of Buxar, the British defeated a combined army of Bengal, Oundh and the Mughal Emperor. The Mughal Emperor did not give a rats ass if the British got taxation in Bengal or the Nawab as along he was paid his tribute as titular Emperor of India to maintain his court. Indeed he preferred he British because they paid on time and in full compared to the Bengal Nawabs.

    In 1847 the British Government introduced a scheme whereby those wishing to buy Indian goods could only do so using Council Bills issued by the British Crown in London. Traders would pay for such Bills in gold and silver and use them to pay Indian producers who would in turn cash them in for rupees at the local colonial office – rupees that been exacted by exorbitant taxatio

    Usta Patniak is a lying crackpot Marxist theorist. The Council of bills system was introduced because the Indian Rupees was on the Silver Standard and the British Pound Sterling on the Gold Standard. This caused a lot of problems for accounting in between two different currency system within the same Empire. 45 trillion dollars? LOL That is far higher than the entire GDP of India throughout the Mughal period and the British period combined. How can someone steal wealth that does not even exist. If you have only 100 dollars in your pocket, can someone steal 500 dollars from your pocket?? magic? Patniak magic? Even if we sold our underwear, England could not take 45 trillions from India.
    Shashi Throor’s lies have been debunked by Zaheer Masani, who is also Indian many times. He is the typical lying Congressi politician.

    Tharoor’s speech & book are very commonly cited. However their most salient claims have been debunked to hell and back Allen (2018); Roy (2018); Faulk (2019); Saini (2017); Pillalamarri (2015); Kassam (2015); MacKenzie (2015); Keay (2015); Maitra (2017); French (2015); Lloyd (2017); Nelson (2017); Robinson (2017); Mishra (2015); Datta (2018); Keay (2017); Foreman (2015); Sabhlok (2018); Patel (2015); Worstall (2015); Masani (2017); Matthews (2017); Arangala (2017); Roy (2020); Chaudhry (2019); Dalmia (2015); Ganie (2018); Collett (2017); Thapar (2018); Vadukut (2015); Vadukut (2017); Worstall (2020); Worstall (2017); Tabir (2018); Gady (2015); Worstall (2018); Masani (2017) also see this r/BadHistory post. The comments on Maitra’s article (as well as this follow-up) are interesting, while hard to read. This leads to Black (2019) characterising his book as deeply flawed. This sharp backlash is perhaps unsurprising considering he wrote his book in 12 days Dalrymple (2018).
    Thomson & Garratt (1999) debunk the myth of weaver’s thumbs being cut off. The cherry-on-top is Brett (1931)’s decimation of Will Durant’s book, who Tharoor draws extensively from.

  320. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    In his book “Inglorious Empire.

    One more “Inglorious Empire” work by an Indian scholar not a lying Indian Congressi politician.
    From
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09557571.2018.1439321?journalCode=ccam20
    Inglorious empire: what the British did to India by Tirthankar Roy
    Roy (2018):
    “The statistic that India produced 25 per cent of world output in 1800 and 2–4 per cent of it in 1900 does not prove that India was once rich and became poor. It only tells us that industrial productivity in the West increased four to six times during this period.”

    From
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254443247_Bourgeois_dignity_and_liberty_Why_economics_can’t_explain_the_modern_world
    Bourgeois dignity and liberty: Why economics can’t explain the modern world by Deirdre McCloskey
    McCloskey (2009):
    “But is the average British person worse off now than when Britain ruled the waves? By no means. British national income per capita is higher than ever, and is among the very highest in the world. Did the acquisition of the Empire, then, cause spurts in British growth? By no means. Indeed, at the climax of imperial pretension, in the 1890s and 1900s, the growth of British real income per head notably slowed. […] Rich countries are rich mainly because of what they do at home, not because of foreign trade, foreign investment, foreign empire, past or present. […] So too in the 20th century: when after World War II the Europeans lost their empires their incomes per head went sharply up, not down.”

    According to Chandra et al. (1989), Drain of wealth theory was not based on facts but was political in nature
    https://www.mentorstudypoint.in/downloads/Bipan_Chandra.pdf
    “Drain theory possessed the political merit of being easily grasped by a nation of peasants. […] No other idea could arouse people than the thought that they were being taxed so that others in far off lands might live in comfort. […] It was, therefore, inevitable that the drain theory became the main staple of nationalist political agitation during the Gandhian era.”

    From
    https://www.palgrave.com/gp/book/9783030177072
    How British Rule Changed India’s Economy: The Paradox of the Raj by Indian economics researcher Tirthankar Roy
    “The drain should mean paying too much for something that India bought from Britain. Colonial India ran an export surplus, which, together with foreign investment, was used to pay for services purchased from Britain. […] How do we know that any of these payments involved paying too much? The answer is we do not. Naoroji shrugged off the problem by treating the entire export surplus as a waste of money. K. N. Chaudhuri rightly calls such practice ‘confused’ economics ‘coloured by political feelings’”

    From
    The Economic History of India 1857-1947 by Tirthankar Roy
    “However, a great deal of government expenditure was made for services that India needed but could not supply on its own, such as pensions to teachers and engineers, or payment of debts raised to finance railways and irrigation. […] The scale of government remittances (0.5–1 per cent of national income) may not appear large enough to bear the ‘drain theory’.”

    From
    Rethinking Economic Change in India: Labour and Livelihood (Routledge Explorations in Economic History) 2005 by Tirthankar Roy
    “In the nineteenth century, a great deal of government expenditure was in fact made for services that India needed but could not supply on its own. After all, the two countries were worlds apart in their technical, scientific and managerial capabilities.”

    From
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=sfe3DwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA77#v=onepage&q&f=false
    Why was British India a Limited State by Tirthankar Roy
    The “drain theory” of Indian poverty cannot be tested with evidence, for several reasons. First, it rests on the counterfactual that any money saved on account of factor payments abroad would translate into domestic investment, which can never be proved. Second, it rests on “the primitive notion that all payments to foreigners are “drain””, that is, on the assumption that these payments did not contribute to domestic national income to the equivalent extent (Kumar 1985, 384; see also Chaudhuri 1968). Again, this cannot be tested. Third, as a large literature on the colonial borrowing activity has underscored, raising debt in London carried an implicit subsidy for the colonies because it entailed lower transaction costs relative to similarly placed independent countries (Accominotti et al al. 2011, Ferguson 2012, Gardner 2017). Within the empire, Indian debt was especially well placed. Fourth, while British officers serving India did receive salaries that were many times that of the average income in India, a paper using cross-country data shows that colonies with better paid officers were governed better (Jones 2013).”

    The idea that India simply would’ve industralised without the British (usually Meiji Japan is drawn as a counterfactual) is untrue – Gupta (1980) thoroughly dispels this view.
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/4368430?seq=1
    Potential of Industrial Revolution in Pre-British India by Shaibal Gupta
    Raychaudhuri (1983) agrees with Gupta (1980)
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/cambridge-economic-history-of-india/mideighteenthcentury-background/364CC8EA015BAFBE8B0A2EEDAA0FD3C5
    The Cambridge Economic History of India: The mid-eighteenth-century background By Tapan Raychaudhuri, University of Oxford and Fellow of St Anthony’s College
    Edited by Dharma Kumar, Meghnad Desai
    “Yet all of this did not amount to an economic situation comparable to that of western Europe on the eve of the industrial revolution. Her technology – in agriculture as well as manufacturers – had by and large been stagnant for centuries. […] The weakness of the Indian economy in the mid-eighteenth century, as compared to pre-industrial Europe was not simply a matter of technology and commercial and industrial organization. No scientific or geographical revolution formed part of the eighteenth-century Indian’s historical experience. […] Spontaneous movement towards industrialisation is unlikely in such a situation.”
    As does Quataert (1988):
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-labor-and-working-class-history/article/abs/new-view-of-industrialization-protoindustry-or-the-role-of-
    smallscale-laborintensive-manufacture-in-the-capitalist-environment/2B4BC81FAC02C205B177860E11A42720
    A New View of Industrialization: “Protoindustry” or the Role of Small-Scale, Labor-Intensive Manufacture in the Capitalist Environment by Jean H. Quataert
    “Given the increasing predominance of European commercial activity in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, India would not necessarily have industrialized if colonialism had not intervened. For Perlin, the relevant point of comparison for precolonial India is the prefactory era of rural manufacture in Europe”

    From
    India in the World Economy From Antiquity to the Present by Indian scholar Tirthankar Roy, London School of Economics and Political Science
    Roy (2012) articulating the benchmark variation argument:
    “India forged ahead by some benchmarks of modernization. A large factory industry, one of the biggest railway and telegraphic systems, and some of the best banks, ports, universities, and hospitals developed in colonial India. Far from deindustrializing, India industrialized.”

    Traditional discourse around this topic of deindustrialisation focuses solely on the decline of certain industries. See Ray (2015)
    https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9781315771083-4/myth-reality-deindustrialisation-early-modern-india-indrajit-ray
    The Myth and Reality of Deindustrialisation in Early Modern India By Indian scholar Indrajit Ray
    “no definitive inference should be drawn without taking into account contemporaneously emerging industries in Bengal”
    Roy (2000) argues that the term is reductive:
    “In the presence of so much diversity and dynamism, it seems difficult to characterize the industrial experience of the early nineteenth century by the unduly dismissive term ‘deindustrialization’.”

    From
    Deindustrialization in 18th and 19th century India: Mughal decline, climate shocks and British industrial ascent by William Clingsmith and Jeffrey Williamson
    This paper doesn’t conform to that hypothesis either. It says (paraphrased) that “the destructive effects of wars (not all British caused) the decline of the Mughal empire and climatic shocks caused the decline of the Indian producer.”
    Per Ray (2009)
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/27771525?seq=1
    Identifying the woes of the cotton textile industry in Bengal: tales of the nineteenth century by INDRAJIT RAY
    ; Ray (2005)
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/001946460504200303
    The silk industry in Bengal during colonial rule: The ‘de–industrialisation’ thesis revisited
    Indrajit Ray,
    “it was not British protectionist policies that caused deindustralisation (vís a vís the cotton textile & silk industries) but technological innovation in the UK. “
    Also see
    https://archive.vn/6sB35
    The Calico Acts: Was British cotton made possible by infant industry protection from Indian competition? pseudoerasmus blog
    Also see Roy (2005)
    Rethinking Economic Change in India: Labour and Livelihood (Routledge Explorations in Economic History) Hardcover by Tirthankar Roy
    on the decline of hand-spinning:
    “the employment loss that resulted from the decline of hand-spinning can be called ‘de-industrialization’ only if we are prepared to call the world where domestic workers sweat for less than subsistence wage in a whole range of semi-skilled tasks an ‘industrial’ society”
    Some claim the mode of deindustralisation was an unusual flavour of favouritism towards British business. This isn’t true see Misra (2000):
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/313066?seq=1
    ‘Business Culture’ and Entrepreneurship in British India, 1860-1950 by A.M. Misra, Modern Asian Studies, Vol. 34, No. 2
    “Recent research has called into question the Raj’s alleged bias in favour of British business; it now seems clear that the government of India had its own financial priorities and had little interest in promoting British business.”

    • Replies: @Malla
  321. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    From
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5187388_Colonialism_and_Modern_Income_--_Islands_as_Natural_Experiments
    Colonialism and Modern Income — Islands as Natural Experiments
    Feyrer & Sacerdote (2006) demonstrates colonialism having a positive economic impact on Islands (they use wind speed used as an instrument to prevent endogenity).

    From
    https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w18162/w18162.pdf
    The European origins of Economic Development by William Easterly & Ross Levine
    Easterly & Levine (2012) replicates Feyrer & Sacerdote (2006) but with colonies in general (thus much greater situational diversity). Here they use precious metals per hectare to prevent endogenity, and they measure the “degree” of colonisation several different ways, all of which have a positive impact.”

    From
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333676354_Differences_in_life_expectancy_between_four_Western_countries_and_their_Caribbean_dependencies_1980-2014
    Differences in life expectancy between four Western countries and their Caribbean dependencies, 1980-2014
    Verstraeten et al (2019) looks at Dutch & British colonies in the Caribbean and find the degree of autonomy from European Empires to be negatively correlated with several different life outcomes.
    It is a replication of McElroy & Sanborn (2005). https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255596552_The_propensity_for_dependence_in_small_Caribbean_and_Pacific_islands
    The propensity for dependence in small Caribbean and Pacific islands by Jerome L Mcelroy & Katherine Sanborn

    This compliments Verstraeten et al (2016) who find decolonisation is associated with reduced life expectancy.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308831637_Decolonization_and_life_expectancy_in_the_Caribbean
    Decolonization and life expectancy in the Caribbean by Soraya P.A. Verstraeten (Ministry of Health, Environment and Nature), Hans Van Oers (Tilburg University) & Johan P. Mackenbach

  322. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    RAILWAYS
    From
    https://www.nikhargaikwad.com/resources/Gaikwad_EICs_2014.pdf
    East India Companies and Long-Term Economic Change in India by Nikhar Gaikwad
    Gaikwad (2014) finds out the importance of precolonial European trading to India’s development. Area’s where the East India Company set up trading ports had better literacy rates and lower infant mortality rates.

    [MORE]

    From
    Literacy in India: An Interpretative Study by Gurdev Singh Gosal. Rural Sociology
    Goasal (1961) describes the Raj similarly:
    “In none of the former British Provinces was rural literacy below 8 percent. Although this in itself was a very low figure, it was higher than that of most of the former princely States”
    From
    INDIAN RIVERS, ‘PRODUCTIVE WORKS’, AND THE EMERGENCE OF LARGE DAMS IN NINETEENTH-CENTURY MADRAS by ADITYA RAMESH Published online by Cambridge University Press: 27 May 2020
    Ramesh (2020) finds out that the British Raj was instrumental to the construction of dams, roads and canals in India.

    From
    https://archive.vn/j0N07
    Railroads of the Raj: Estimating the Impact of Transportation Infrastructure by Dave Donaldson
    Donaldson (2018) finds out that railways built during British period decreased trade costs, increased trade volume & increased real income in India.

    Can Openness Mitigate the Effects of Weather Shocks? Evidence from India’s Famine Era by Robin Burgess and Dave Donaldson
    Donaldson & Burgess (2010) find out that railways built during British Empire period significantly decrease famine intensity (even with a lack of rain).

    From
    https://www.lse.ac.uk/economics/Assets/Documents/personal-pages/robin-burgess/railroads-and-the-demise-of-famine.pdf
    Railroads and the Demise of Famine in Colonial India by Robin Burgess& Dave Donaldson
    Donaldson & Burgess (2017) expand on the previous work and show that declining famine incidence in modern day India is a direct consequence of the railways built during the British Empire.

    From
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/4400286?seq=1
    States and Civil Societies in Modern Asia by Dharma Kumar
    Kumar (1993) argees with Donaldson & Burgess (2017):
    “the long administrative experience built up over nearly a century was a vital factor in India’s excellent post-independence record of averting famine”

    From
    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2073256
    Railways in Colonial India: An Economic Achievement? by Dan Bogart & Latika Chaudhary
    Bogart & Chaudhary (2012) replicate the economic benefit of British built railways on Indians.

    From
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0014498375900042
    Railways and the expansion of markets in India, 1861–1921 by John Hurd II
    Hurd II (1975) argues this is because the British built railways mediated prince convergence and created an India-wide foodgrain market.

    From
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-economic-history/article/abs/railways-and-price-convergence-in-british-india/A370CC9FC38CCF72DD0EAA20CA4EC266
    Railways and Price Convergence in British India by Tahir Andrabi & Michael Kuehlwein
    Andrabi et al. (2010) disagrees that railways are the sole cause of price convergence and points to other innovations and infrastructure built by the British Empire such as the telegraph system, and the building and paving with metal of roads. He also thinks that rising exports and institutional reforms (abolishing internal tolls, teaching a single language, strengthening of law & order as well as the creation of a single administrative and legal framework) by the British Empire played a part.

    From
    https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Appendix-A-%3A-Maps-of-Spread-of-Railroads-%3A-%3A-1871-Keniston/a18fe4eb12a037e39575b222dafd3423a5447657?p2df
    Maps of Spread of Railroads : 1871-1911 : 1871 1881 by Daniel Keniston
    Keniston (2007) is concordant with Donaldson & Burgess (2010), showing that British Empire railways reduced famine mortality in India (and also suggesting that the railways were built in areas with high famine risk directly countering the claim that they were built in fertile areas to expropriate the resources there).

    From
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/24551039?seq=1
    Engines of Growth: The Productivity Advance of Indian Railways, 1874–1912 by Dan Bogart and Latika Chaudhary
    Bogart & Chaudhury (2013) shows British Empire era railways had one of the highest TFPs (total factor productivities) in all of India.

    From
    https://archive.vn/boTSa#selection-1337.0-1359.1
    Extractive institutions? Investor returns to Indian railway companies in the age of high imperialism by Dan Bogart (a1) and Latika Chaudhary
    Furthermore Bogart & Chaudhury (2019) shows British Empire built railways did not have extractive rates of returns. This is unsurprising because the British saw the railways as a means to modernise India. Did colonial policies in India deliver excessive returns to British investors? We answer this question using annual data on Indian securities trading on the London
    Stock Exchange. We present new series on market capitalization, capital gains, dividend yields, and total returns of railway securities from 1880 to 1929. The average annual total return on the largest and most important Indian railway securities was 3.7%. These returns were not excessive by any financial standard. Indeed, they were lower than the return on railway securities in North America, Latin America, and Asia. We also undertake an event study analysis to assess whether Indian railways significantly benefited British investors. When the Government of India purchased large positions in the private railway companies between 1880 and 1910, there were opportunities for profit making. However, we find no evidence of abnormal investor returns in the years leading to the purchase of railway companies. Broadly our findings call into question the extractive nature of colonial railway policy.

    From
    https://academic.oup.com/ereh/article-abstract/22/1/73/3930943
    “For the public benefit”? Railways in the British Cape Colony by Alfonso Herranz-Loncán, Johan Fourie
    Herranz-Loncán & Fourie (2018) show British built railways led to decreased transport costs & served to develop local areas (i.e. were not extractive) in British Cape Colonyin Africa.

    From
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304387818306850
    New technology, better economy? The heterogeneous impact of colonial railroads in Nigeria by Dozie Okoye, Roland Pongou & Tite Yokossi
    Okoye (2019) find similar heterogeneous economic benefits for British built railways in north Nigeria, and neutral effects in south Nigeria.

  323. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    From
    https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.20140379
    The Long-Term Effects of the Printing Press in Sub-Saharan Africa by Julia Cagee & Valeria Rueda
    Cagé & Reuda (2016) find that the introduction of the printing press by Protestant missionaries during the European Empires in Africa, had positive effects on education, political participation & newspaper readership in SS Africa.

    [MORE]

    From
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/20780389.2014.927110
    Missionaries and female empowerment in colonial Uganda: New evidence from Protestant marriage registers, 1880–1945 by Felix Meier zu Selhausen
    Meier zu Selhausen (2014) find that the introduction of the printing press by Protestant missionaries during the European Empires in Africa had positive effects on native female empowerment.

    From
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/23526133
    Competitive Religious Entrepreneurs: Christian Missionaries and Female Education in Colonial and Post-Colonial India by TOMILA LANKINA and LULLIT GETACHEW
    Lankina & Getachew (2013) also find Protestant missionaries during the European Empires in Africa having positive effects on native female empowerment.

    Long-term effects of access to health care: Medical missions in colonial India, July 2018Journal of Development Economics 135 by Rossella Calvi & Federico G. Mantovanelli
    Calvi & Mantovanelli (2018) find that Protestant missionaries during the British Empire in India led to better health outcomes for natives.

    From
    http://etheses.lse.ac.uk/3727/
    Economics of social, gender, and income inequalities by Sutanuka Roy
    Roy (2018) found that former British provinces of India have less child marriages & higher numbers of females in education.

    From
    https://users.ox.ac.uk/~mast5812/papers/British_legal_reforms_india_Roy_Tam.pdf
    Impact of British Colonial Gender Reform on Early Female Marriages and Gender Gap in Education: Evidence from Child Marriage Abolition Act, 1929 by Sutanuka Roy & Eddy H.F. Tam
    Roy & Ham (2016) replicates this and traces it to British period gender laws.

    From
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763662/
    Public Health in British India: A Brief Account of the History of Medical Services and Disease Prevention in Colonial India by Muhammad Umair Mushtaq
    https://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/people/sawchuk/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2019/09/Undulant-Fever-Colonialism-Culture-and-Compliancy.pdf
    Undulant Fever: Colonialism, Culture, and Compliancy by Lianne Tripp and Lawrence A. Sawchuk
    “By contrast, comparatively few studies have shown how colonial authorities contributed
    positively to the wellbeing of the indigenous population through benevolence, or altruism or imperialistic”

    motives.
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/modern-asian-studies/article/dreadful-scourge-cholera-in-early-nineteenthcentury-india/7277A51FD55951F1D22F1166CFF9A064
    A Dreadful Scourge: Cholera in early nineteenth-century India by MARK HARRISON
    All three above discuss the various actions taken by Imperial governments to improve the healthcare of peoples of the Empires including the very poor.

    From
    The Development Effects of the Extractive Colonial Economy: The Dutch Cultivation System in Java, The Review of Economic Studies by Melissa Dell, Benjamin A Olken
    “Dell & Olken (2020) found that areas in Java where the Dutch set up sugar factories are richer than suitable counterfactual areas. We show that areas close to where the Dutch established sugar factories in the mid-19th century are today more industrialized, have better infrastructure, are more educated, and are richer than nearby counterfactual locations that would have been similarly suitable for colonial sugar factories. We also show, using a spatial regression discontinuity design on the catchment areas around each factory, that villages who grew sugar cane have more village-owned land and also have more schools and substantially higher education levels, both historically and today.

    From
    https://www.econstor.eu/handle/10419/206669
    Circle of fortune: The long term impact of Western customs institutions in China by Gan Jin
    Gin (2018) finds out China befitted from British custom institutions.

    From
    https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/53531/1/
    The Long-Term Effects of Protestant Activities in China by Yuyu Chen and Hui Wang and Se Yan
    Chen et al. (2014) on how Protestant missionaries helped economic development in China through the spread of work ethic, education & healthcare

    From
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1018322908007
    Colonial legacies and economic growth by Robin M. Grier
    “I find that colonies that were held for longer periods of time than other countries tend to perform better, on average, after independence.”

    From
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264275111000552
    The impact of colonization on access to improved water and sanitation facilities in African cities by Ambe J.Njoh & Fenda A.Akiwumi
    Njoh & Akiwumi (2011) find European Imperialism duration is positively associated with access to improved water & sanitation facilitates in Africa.

    From
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0197397512000434
    Colonization and sanitation in urban Africa: A logistics analysis of the availability of central sewerage systems as a function of colonialism by Ambe J.Njoh
    Njoh (2013) finds a positive association between European Imperial tenure and the existence of a central sewerage system in Africa.

    From
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360544216315146
    A multivariate analysis of inter-country differentials in electricity supply as a function of colonialism in Africa by Ambe J.Njoh
    Njoh (2016) proves positive correlation in between European Imperial intensity & electricity supply in Africa

    From
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264275115000141
    An OLS analysis of the impact of colonialism on inter-country differentials in slum incidence in Africa by Ambe J.Njoh
    Njoh (2015) shows the intensity of European Imperialism is inversely related to slum incidence in Africa.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  324. DocDictum says: • Website

    Yes the U.S. has failed and will continue to do so because unlike the Russians that use FORCE our government would prefer to use words.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  325. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    I don’t care. You are fit to be tied so I won’t waste any more of my time on your nonsense.

  326. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    “ideological blinkers” can come from “many directions”!

    In Western Universities they tend to be of the Marxist kind.

    More pain than gain: How the US-China trade war hurt America

    Sure greedy Wall Street is pissed as Trump affects their business with the Chinese deep State. You know the 50 Oligarchic Communist families who secretly run Communist China behind the scenes. Your President Xi is in a power struggle with them right now. So the Wall Street outlets write shit about Trump. I am not saying Trump is perfect.
    White Nationalists are not inherently anti-China. Their main concerns are immigration etc.. at home. The only problem they might have with China is losing jobs to China as industries moved to China. Some may dislike a Communist country. Some may care about Tibet or Xinjiang or Hongkong. Most WN’s do not really care about China or Afghanistan. Some White Nationalists actually admire the P.R.C as they hate their own traitor government and like China’s system which protects people from destructive culture and is more nationalist. The same bunch admire Russia as well.

    Then you are admitting that they (even the Blacks) do blame the Jews– either in the mainstream media or alternative media,

    Western mainstream media??? Are you nuts?

    North America is occupied by whites. Who are occupying the “Government of the USA”?

    North America is occupied by the Whites just like Taiwan is occupied by the Han and not its original natives. The USA and Western countries are called ZOG for a reason. Zionist Occupied Government.

    The term “Wumao” was used by Indian nationalistic web-warriors some 2 decades ago in their web-wars with Wumaos on other forums.

    Stop bullshitting, most Indian nationalists do not even know the term Wumao even today just like most Chinese Nationalists even know the term “BJP IT Cell”.

    Then China will have to prepare for that day. Alternatively, the 2 countries might resolve their border disputes before then.

    China cannot do shit. A military defeat of India will further incense the Indian masses for revenge against aggressor China and affront to proud Motherland. They will wait a 1000 years for revenge. China cannot nuke out 1.2 billion Indians (in reality it is already 1.6 billion). China cannot break India except Kashmir and North East. China cannot do nothing. Remember China is an aging society. India is young and its population is set to rise to 2 billion before leveling off. 2 billion people with nukes is not easy stuff.
    As far as solving the border dispute, accepting giving even an inch to China or any foreign power will be political suicide for the Indian administration in power. The Indian masses will want their blood. For Indian Nationalists, it can only be solved if China accepts the border put up by the Indian Government, not 1 inch less. Also China discontinues or redirects CPEC from POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) which according to Indian Nationalists is Indian territory.
    Anyways, not my personal views, I want India to give in the China’s claims and not waste time in this unnecessary rivalry. But that makes me because of my position a “traitor”, an “enemy Chinese agent” according to Indian nationalists (who are the majority). Also to give independence to Kashmir and the North East.
    Truth be told the idiotic Indian Government fueled this Indian nationalism among the masses in the past and now it has got a life of its own and threatens the Indian Government itself. Their creation bites them in the butt. LOL.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  327. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    As I already mentioned, for this “Professor” the British Empire was a Godsend gift to India and the best thing that could have happened to that country in his History and the great pity is that it had to end at some point in time.

    That is correct. The British Empire was a godsend to many parts of the World.

    ignorance, stupidity

    You are the idiot who does not even understand percentage, I used an example using mangoes to explain to someone with an IQ of a child but you are dumber than them. You would fail even lower KG (kindergarden) in India. LOL

    BTW posting a bunch of videos full of lies and B.S. does not prove shit. I challenge you to invite those shits who made those videos for a debate here on Unz and I will debunk their rubbish with ease. There are lot of videos about the Tienanmen Square massacre but you do not believe in them do you?
    You also forget there were videos showing the good side of the British Empire, one excellent one by Alternative hypothesis were all scrubbed clean by Marxist Corporate You Tube. Strange how a big Corporation deletes right winged videos, left and right. The Globalist banker oligarchs have always supported your Marxism. Marxism is their wet dream.

    So, it is official, this guy doesn’t have a clue of what he is talking about.

    You will always remain a low IQ monkey. I just quote what was written in the website you linked. The point I was stressing was “getting economic data from such periods from the past is a fool’s errand.” It is impossible to get accurate economic data from those periods. They are built on guesswork.

    40% of the global GPD in the early 1800s

    40% of a much smaller global economy. The global economy expanded due to the Industrial Revolution, so the 40% became smaller. But you do not understand percentages. So no point in explaining to an idiot. You must be one of the dumbest guys on Unz, a website full of intelligent people.

    Africa for most of their History, and those in the Americas until at least the Conquest, were simply surviving, they didn’t create value, surplus value in Marxist lingo

    LOL Marxist lingo and Marxist economics is mostly bullshit and always leads to failure. Only crackpots will go according to Marxist economics. Socialist economics sure is fine but not Marxist economics. Please.
    You are obviously bullshting. Many African kingdoms did trade with Arabs etc… in slaves, ivory, gold etc.. We do not have their economic records. They obviously had some excess to trade.
    Africa was just an example. Anyways so you mean African GDP was zero as they did not have surplus? Are you mad? GDP is economic activity not only surplus. Africans hunted, farmed, built houses, gave tribute to chiefs etc… All of that comes in GDP. And if African GDP is zero before European influence, that means after European influence they had a new GDP? Right. One more reason why India and China would be squeezed out a bit. It would be same with the Americas according to you. You shoot yourself in foot.
    Next as I said, Africa is just an example. India which you so prat about, show me economic records from the year 1000 AD. Forget Africa, India had a GDP right? So show me the economic records from 1000 AD. There are none. Even the economic records of the Islamic period are not accurate and are a bit sketchy. Not only India, show me accurate economic records of Persia before Islam. Of Siam/Thailand in 1000 AD. There are none. How can you make percentages if you do not have this data? It can only be guesswork. In 1700 AD, the Mughal Empire had collapsed, we had Marathas, Sikhs and loads of small Kingdoms fighting with each other. Do we have accurate GDP data from all of them? The Maratha Empire was itself divided into rival power structures, the Peshwa in Pune, the Holkars, the Scindias, the Gaekwads. Do you have accurate GDP data of all of them? Do you have accurate data from the Travancore Kingdom from 1500 AD? Where? When Iranian Emperor Nadir Shah looted out the wealth of India of our Mughal Indian Emperor Mohammed Shah, what effect did it have on Indian GDP? When Mohammed of Gazni invaded India looted out millions, destroyed temples, enslaved millions of Indians, entire villages deserted, can you explain the effect on Indian GDP from that graph? When the Vijaynagar Empire in South India fell to the Brahmani Muslim Sultans, the prosperous city of Hampi was destroyed and left in ruins, what was the effect on Indian GDP? Can you explain plez? That graph is built on guestimates. That is it.

  328. Anon[221] • Disclaimer says:
    @Angharad

    ‘Fred is married to a Mexican Jewess.’

    So what sort of sub-conscious stuff is going on when Ted writes ‘Voters let themselves be led by the nose’ ? Does he mean ‘by their Semitic overlords’?

    Or is he thinking of his own ‘lower nose’? Hmm…

  329. cestall says:

    Just my unpopular opinion, but I think our first mistake was thinking we would “fix” Afghanistan under the delusion that the locals would take over, and make a strong and modern society.

    Problem One: Afghans, no comment on their value as a people, are not smart. That happens when you’re run by the Taliban. Side note, in Haiti after we “nation built” it for it’s own good (which everyone seems to have forgotten), the locals had freedom. Problem was, they didn’t know what to do with it. “Do what ever you want.” They ended up initially looking for “Le Blanques” to tell them what to do.
    But lo, we Americans are cowboy heroes in white hats, and we don’t tell people what to do. Therein lies a problem. The Roman Empire was better at this: This is OUR land now. You will abide by OUR laws. We will build roads, bring commerce and aqueducts, and you can keep your lands and holdings. Pay your tribute and don’t cause trouble, or we will kill (painfully) one out of ten of you to set an example.
    You can say it didn’t work, but 1000 years of history kind of says otherwise. We are 245 years into our own, and failing quickly. If the Roman style of conquest doesn’t appeal, which is reasonable, might I suggest not going at all?

    Problem Two: Afghans, and other Middle Eastern peoples, are terrible soldiers. Yes, they make pretty good insurgents, but as an army? The make the Italians in WW2 look like…well, the Soviets in WW2.
    Why then were we expecting them to form a serviceable army to defend themselves? We spent billions training them for almost 20 years, and they folded faster than the Flash making a paper airplane. Not sure if a shot was even fired this summer. Wikipedia already says “The Afghan Armed Forces were…”
    “Were” indeed. And we knew, we KNEW, what their opposition would be once the US left, and we still didn’t train them to fight the Taliban. Forget an army, how about an insurgent militia, think Afghan Minutemen, formed from local tribes and communities, ready to go out and hunt Taliban down in their own territory. Maybe not 100% successful, but it HAS to be better than what happened on August 15, 2021. The Afghan military just disbanded. Quit. Gave up. No sense in even trying.

    Problem Three: You weren’t in favor in going into Afghanistan in 2021? That doesn’t matter. At all. That’s exactly like saying one of your kids who disappoints you should have never been born. It’s a weak and cruel argument. Afghanistan was our kid. We may have not planned it, nor wanted it, but we are responsible nonetheless. Joe Biden has decided to abandon that child, and now it’s going to turn into a dope-addicted, violent, illiterate criminal, with probably a healthy hatred for Daddy America. What could go wrong? Well, could be the same thing the last time we did this in Afghanistan in the late ‘80’s. Let’s see how Junior expresses himself in about 12 years or so…

    • Replies: @gatobart
    , @Malla
  330. gatobart says:
    @DocDictum

    “…because unlike the Russians that use FORCE our government would prefer to use words”

    Speaking of people who have lost their minds and who keep talking nonsense and spreading B.S,

    U.S. invasions and foreign military interventions ONLY since WW2 to 2004, including backing and/or sponsoring military coups:

    [MORE]

    1946 Iran Troops deployed in northern province.
    1946-49 China Major US army presence of about 100,000 troops, fighting, training and advising local combatants.
    1947-49 Greece US forces wage a 3-year counterinsurgency campaign.
    1948 Italy Heavy CIA involvement in national elections.
    1948-1954 Philippines Commando operations, “secret” CIA war.
    1950-1953 Korea Major forces engaged in war in Korean peninsula.
    1953 Iran CIA overthrows government of Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh.
    1954 Vietnam Financial and materiel support for colonial French military operations. 1954 Guatemala CIA overthrows the government of President Jacobo Arbenz.
    1958 Lebanon US marines and army units totaling 14,000 land.
    1958 Panama Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens.
    1959 Haiti Marines land.
    1960 Congo CIA-backed overthrow/assassination of Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba.
    1960-64 Vietnam Gradual introduction of military advisors and special forces.
    1961 Cuba CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion.
    1962 Cuba Nuclear threat and naval blockade.
    1962 Laos CIA-backed military coup.
    1963 Ecuador CIA backs military overthrow of President Jose Maria Valesco Ibarra.
    1964 Panama Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens.
    1964 Brazil CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government of Joao Goulart.
    1965-75 Vietnam Large commitment of military forces, including air, naval and ground units numbering up to 500,000+ troops. Full-scale war, lasting for ten years.
    1965 Indonesia CIA-backed army coup overthrows President Sukarno.
    1965 Congo CIA backed military coup overthrows President Joseph Kasavubu.
    1965 Dominican Republic 23,000 troops land.
    1965-73 Laos Bombing campaign begin, lasting eight years.
    1966 Ghana CIA-backed military coup ousts President Kwame Nkrumah.
    1966-67 Guatemala Extensive counter-insurgency operation.
    1969-75 Cambodia CIA supports military coup against Prince Sihanouk.
    1970 Oman Counter-insurgency operation, including coordination with Iranian invasion.
    1971-73 Laos Invasion by US and South Vietnames forces.
    1973 Chile CIA-backed military coup ousts government of President Salvador Allende.
    1975 Cambodia Marines land, engage in combat with government forces.
    1976-92 Angola Military and CIA operations.
    1980 Iran Special operations units land in Iran. Helicopter malfunction aborts planned raid.
    1981 Libya Naval jets shoot down two Libyan jets in maneuvers over the Mediterranean.
    1981-92 El Salvador CIA and special forces begin a long counterinsurgency campaign.
    1981-19 Nicaragua CIA directs exile “Contra” operations. US air units drop sea mines in harbors.
    1982-84 Lebanon Marines land and naval forces fire on local combatants.
    1983 Grenada Military forces invade Grenada.
    1983-89 Honduras Large program of military assistance aimed at conflict in Nicaragua.
    1984 Iran Two Iranian jets shot down over the Persian Gulf.
    1986 Libya US aircraft bomb the cities of Tripoli and Benghazi, including direct strikes at the official residence of President Muamar al Qadaffi.
    1986 Bolivia Special Forces units engage in counter-insurgency.
    1987-88 Iran Naval forces block Iranian shipping. Civilian airliner shot down by missile cruiser.
    1989 Libya Naval aircraft shoot down two Libyan jets over Gulf of Sidra.
    1989 Philippines CIA and Special Forces involved in counterinsurgency.
    1989-90 Panama 27,000 troops as well as naval and air power used to overthrow President Noriega.
    1990 Liberia Troops deployed.
    1990-91 Iraq Major military operation, including naval blockade, air strikes; large number of troops attack Iraqi forces in occupied Kuwait.
    1991-03 Iraq Control of Iraqi airspace in north and south of the country with periodic attacks on air and ground targets.
    1991 Haiti CIA-backed military coup ousts President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
    1992-94 Somalia Special operations forces intervene.
    1992-94 Yugoslavia Major role in NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
    1993-95 Bosnia Active military involvement with air and ground forces.
    1994-96 Haiti Troops depose military rulers, restore President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to office.
    1995 Croatia Krajina Serb airfields attacked.
    1996-97 Zaire (Congo) Marines involved in operations in eastern region of the country.
    1997 Liberia Troops deployed.
    1998 Sudan Air strikes destroy country’s major pharmaceutical plant.
    1998 Afghanistan Attack on targets in the country.
    1998 Iraq Four days of intensive air and missile strikes.
    1999 Yugoslavia Major involvement in NATO air strikes.
    2001 Macedonia NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels.
    2001 Afghanistan Air attacks & ground operations oust Taliban government install a new regime.
    2003 Iraq Invasion with large ground, air, naval forces ousts government of Saddam Hussein.
    2003-present Iraq Occupation force of 150,000 troops in protracted counter-insurgency war
    2004 Haiti Marines land. CIA-backed forces overthrow President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

  331. gatobart says:
    @cestall

    “Just my unpopular opinion, but I think our first mistake was thinking we would “fix” Afghanistan under the delusion that the locals would take over, and make a strong and modern society”

    Unpopular because dumb and clueless. Not one in Washington, in Wall Street or the international banking cartel “made the mistake of thinking that Afghanistan could be fixed”. They are not as clueless or naive as you are for that and they perfectly knew why they went there. First, because of geo-strategic reasons, to control the entry door to Eurasia (neocon High Priest Zbignew Brzezinski postulated decades ago that those who controls Eurasia control the world and Afghanistan is its entry door so the move was obvious but you surely have never even heard of him). As important as that, you control Afghanistan and from there you could create as divide between China and Russia, cut Eurasia in two, preventing them to establish a full military union, not to mention one with Iran. All that is lost now, Brzezinski’s dream is dead. That is why this U.S. retreat from Afghanistan is a major strategic victory for the three countries, for the Chinese plans of the New Silk Road so in historic terms a defeat many times worse than that of Vietnam for the U.S. The neocon dream of controlling Eurasia is dead on the water.

    Then there is also the control of Afghan poppy production and traffic and of course all that rare earth stuff and other mineral riches that will most likely fall now in the hands of the Chinese.

    So, uh…no, there was nowhere in that U.S. agenda any place for fixing the country.

  332. gatobart says:

    BTW, as a curiosity, this Zbignew Brzezinski man was an obsessive fella. First, obsessive in his rabid anti Soviet and anti-Russian hatred, which is not surprising for a Polish anyway. But we was obsessed about “America” also., In his book where he puts on the table his wacky neocon project for the control of the world and its resources, I think the title is The Grand Chessboard, I was amazed at his abundant use of the word “America”. I started counting them and in only a couple of pages I think it popped out something like 30 to 40 times. Then, a not so distant second, an expression this time, “American power”. Logical, said Mr. Spock, “America” was his only weapon against his hated Russians, as the case is with most (Eastern European by birth or ancestry) neocons anyway,

    Yep, he was a pretty obsessive fella, he must now be rolling in his grave.

  333. @Currahee

    “Fred is married to a Mexican Jewess”
    Is this true? How do you know this?
    Fred?

    Of course, you idiot! She has been circumscribed….

  334. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    (It had been 27 per cent in 1700, when the Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb’s treasury raked in £100 million in tax revenues alone.)

    What rubbish, Aurangzeb raked in £ 30 to 40 million per year. This Tharoor is a typical lying Congressi Indian politician, he wrote his idiotic book Inglorious Empire, in just 12 days without checking records. The British Raj which was larger in size than that of Aurangzeb raked in only £ 21 million. But you ignore that the Mughal tax rates were very high on Indian farmers, high as 33% to 50% . That is everything above subsistence level farming was acquired by the Mughal state from the peasants. British Empire tax rates were extremely low at 5 to 15% on Indian farmers.
    From
    From “India Its Administration And Progress” by John Starchey, linked above.
    “A list is given by Catron, on Manucci’s authority, of the amount of the land revenue in each province in 1697, when Aurangzib’s empire was much larger than it had been thirty years before. The total reaches the sum of £38,719,000. Whether these figures represent the demand or the collections is not stated, but no doubt the former is intended. Three manuscripts in the India Office library give the amount of Aurangzib’s land revenue at sums varying between £34,187,000 and £34,641,000; the years to which they refer are not stated, and although the totals do not much differ, the discrepancies in the details are great.

    Considering that the present land revenue of the British Government amounts only to £21,000,000, drawn from a more extensive empire than that of Aurangzib, the sums said to have been received or demanded from the land by the latter seem at first sight to deserve little credit.

    …snip….

    “Under the system laid down by Akbar, and carried, into effect in the year 1582 by the famous settlement of Todar Mal, the sovereign was held to be practising a wise moderation when he fixed his share of the gross produce of the land at 33 per cent, but this was much less than was ordinarily demanded. The Marathas took at least one-half; and the same proportion was
    ordinarily assumed to be their proper share by the governments that preceded us in Madras. The result of minute inquiries made towards the end of the last century showed that the native rulers in Bengal usually took about 54 per cent. In the Punjab, when we first occupied the province, it was found that the share of the gross produce taken by the Sikh government was from 40 to 50 per cent. Elphinstone, in his History of India thus sums up the facts in regard to the land revenue under native governments : “ The sovereign’s share is now reckoned at one-half. A country is reckoned moderately assessed if he only takes one- third”; and in one of his minutes, referring to the Deccan, he says that it seems to have been “the original principle in all settlements for the Government to take half and leave half to the cultivator.”

    Compare the foregoing facts with the following.

    Instead of sweeping off the whole or the greater part of the surplus profit of the land, our Government never takes more than a fixed share, the rate of which necessarily varies, but which only in exceptional cases exceeds*7 or 8 per cent of the gross out-turn.Many of the native states of Bombay have been surveyed and settled on the system adopted by our government,
    and their rates are usually 10 to 15 per cent higher than in the British”

    …snip….

    While our policy has been to encourage the growth of private property in land, and to take for the state only a moderate share of the rental or produce, former governments hardly recognised the existence of such property, and frequently took from the cultivator an amount as large as the full rack-rent which might have been taken by a private landlord, or the whole of the surplus profit after the expenses of cultivation had been defrayed.The cultivator was entitled to subsistence; everything else belonged to the state.”

    MALLA: So basically the pre-British era Indian Governments (Mughals, Marathas, Sikhs) caused the poverty in the people (90% were farmers) by their exorbitantly high taxation on poor peasants and keeping them at subsistence level. They spent a large part of that taxed money on luxuries and opulent courts. It was during the benevolent and enlightened British Empire, we as a people started recovering but our population was growing fast too due to British introduced medicine and hygiene. Till the 1960s India/Pakistan had a Malthusian population growth, which made any economic growth redundant due to the population growth. India’s recovery started during the British period and is still going on.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  335. gatobart says:
    @Malla

    Stop wasting your time and go seek help. I am not reading your delusional crap anymore and I don’t think anyone else is doing it except for a laugh or simple masochism.

    • Replies: @JohnH
    , @Commentator Mike
  336. @Malla

    Western mainstream media??? Are you nuts?

    See above; “either” … “or”…

    The USA and Western countries are called ZOG for a reason. Zionist Occupied Government.

    Now, even an Indian blames the Jews!!!

    They will wait a 1000 years for revenge.

    Both the Chinese and Indian civilizations are older than 1000 years. The 2 can wait 2000 years and then have tea and curry together. Meanwhile, they can hold pissing matches along the border.

    • Replies: @Malla
  337. JohnH says:
    @Malla

    You truly disfigure this site with your flatulence — and quite unbelievably there are many who are courteous and instructive in the face of your obdurate venom. “They are the slime of the earth and the masters of lying” — a famous nineteenth century philosopher.

  338. JohnH says:
    @gatobart

    Malla is a word I now associate with uncontrolled sharting.

    • Replies: @gatobart
  339. Malla says:
    @Malla

    “Recent research has called into question the Raj’s alleged bias in favour of British business; it now seems clear that the government of India had its own financial priorities and had little interest in promoting British business.”

    Exactly!!! That is why our Viceroy, Viceroy of India, Lord Curzon (George Curzon, 1st Marquess Curzon of Kedleston) P.B.U.H, out-rightly rejected some Imperial Preference trade deal proposals from our Imperial metropole Great Britain in trade discussions in between the Government of India (British Raj) and the Government of Great Britain, because according to him, “it was not in India’s interest”.

  340. Malla says:
    @cestall

    Afghans, and other Middle Eastern peoples, are terrible soldiers. Y

    Not the Shia types like the Iranians and Hezbollah. Also not the Turks. Turks and Iranians make quite good soldiers if you ask me.

  341. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    impeaching Warren Hastings (first Governor General of India and father by adultery of Jane Austen’s cousin Eliza)

    Oh my God, SMH. That is exactly the point, the British Empire took corrective action over who they found to have done some wrong. When Afghan King Ahmed Shah Abdali killed and looted Indians with glee via seven invasions, did he face impeachment on this count? When the Maratha Imperial forces raided and looted Bengal and caused the death of 400000 Bengali, who was impeached for this? Answer me.
    And there are many such examples.
    The case of Governor General of India, Warren Hastings was that of Orientalists Vs Whigs. Warren Hastings was an Indo-phile who loved Indian traditional culture. He got along extremely well with Indian people and was extremely popular among the masses. Warren Hastings was of the orientalist group of the British, according to them Indians should stick to traditional Indian education and Western education should not be pushed on Indians. But that made him an enemy of the Whigs/Liberals who believed that Indians should be taught modern Western liberal education to liberate us from Medieval backwardness. Warren Hastings was attacked in the parliament by Whig politicians like Edmund Burke. There was a lot of underlying politics involved in his impeachment.
    More on that here
    https://openthemagazine.com/essay/warren-hastings-loved-india-a-little-more-than-his-own-country/
    Warren Hastings ‘Loved India a Little More Than His Own Country’ by Zaheer Masani

    The guy loved Indian culture, was loved by the Indian masses.

    Warren Hastings was the most popular of all British Governor- Generals among his Indian subjects. So why was he alone put on trial for crimes against humanity in a seven-year-long impeachment in British Parliament, led by the great Whig orator Edmund Burke? The answer lies in the clash between two very different visions of empire: one respectful of Indian traditions and crudely labelled ‘Orientalist’, the other inspired by a Whig brand of Westernising liberal intervention. The Hastings trial would be the first of many battles between Orientalists and Anglicists.

    Given his strong Indian sympathies, it’s ironical that the charges against Hastings focused on his alleged persecution of Indian subjects and allies. Edmund Burke, in his four-day-long opening speech, accused Hastings of having “gorged his ravenous maw…feeding on the indigent, the dying and ruined” like “the ravenous vulture… devouring the carcasses of the dead”. “I impeach him in the name of the English nation, whose ancient honour he has sullied,” Burke thundered, “I impeach him in the name of the people of India, whose rights he has trodden under foot, and whose country he has turned into a desert.”

    …snip….

    At Hastings’ impeachment, his treatment of the Avadh dowagers (Queens of the Kingdom of Avadh, in my native state of UP) provoked some of the most emotive outbursts from Edmund Burke and the most dramatic attacks from Richard Brinsley Sheridan, the Whig MP who was also the most popular playwright of his day. Their speeches were full of ‘love-passion’ for the wronged princesses, and even seasoned British MPs could not recollect weeping ‘so heartily and copiously on any public occasion’. Hastings was accused of personally instigating physical torture of the imprisoned eunuchs and of starving the Begums into submission. But Penderel Moon points out that the Begums (Queens) themselves were later reconciled with Hastings, sent messages of support to him at his trial and bore him no ill will.”

  342. @gatobart

    What Malla is trying to say, in so many words, is that it is preferable to be ruled by Brits than by Indians. Maybe he’s got a point. Who would you prefer to rule over you?

  343. gatobart says:
    @Commentator Mike

    What he is actually saying is that he is as crazy as an outhouse rat as is is obvious by the regular dialogs between his multiple personalities. In any case, if this dingbat doesn’t bother and you can understand him, you take it. As for me I am not paying attention n anymore to this clown. I have better things to do with my time.

  344. gatobart says:
    @JohnH

    Funny. that is a word I associate now with “Foul mouthed slum dweller who has little if not formal education, who tried to solve that by reading and hoarding a whole lot of useless random information, as many autodidacts do, and who tries to pretend in front of people that he is a very literate and well educated individual but who in fact can’t conceal the fact that he has never stepped into a institution of high learning and that has finally gone insane of so much loneliness and started having the best moments of his journey during his regular conversations with the mirror.”

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  345. Malla says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I am trying to say that there has been a lot of propaganda against colonial Empires. I have also given links about Africa. Colonialism is not the reason why some nations are unsuccessful today in the Third World indeed Colonialism actually contributed to whatever success they have.

    • Replies: @Malla
  346. Malla says:
    @Commentator Mike

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254443247_Bourgeois_dignity_and_liberty_Why_economics_can’t_explain_the_modern_world
    Bourgeois dignity and liberty: Why economics can’t explain the modern world by Deirdre McCloskey 2009
    Also
    http://www.deirdremccloskey.com/docs/imperialism.pdf
    Keukentafel Economics and the History of British Imperialism by Deirdre McCloskey , Erasmus University of Rotterdam
    McClosekey (2009); McClosekey (2006) find Imperialism was not responsible for diverging economic outcomes in between developed and developing world

    [MORE]

    From
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/2566799?seq=1
    The Importance of Slavery and the Slave Trade to Industrializing Britain by David Eltis and Stanley L. Engerman
    Eltis & Engerman (2000):
    “If the value added and strategic linkages of the sugar industry are compared to those of other British industries, it is apparent that sugar cultivation and the slave trade were not particularly large, nor did they have stronger growth-inducing ties with the rest of the British economy.”
    From
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-economic-history/article/growth-under-extractive-institutions-latin-american-per-capita-gdp-in-colonial-times/AD40ADD56E48189DAEEF5EDF067BB734
    Growth under Extractive Institutions? Latin American Per Capita GDP in Colonial Times by Leticia Arroyo Abad and Jan Luiten van Zanden
    Abad & Zanden (2016):
    “Our results question the notion that colonial institutions impoverished Latin America.”

    From
    https://www.nuff.ox.ac.uk/economics/history/paper113/harley113.pdf
    SLAVERY, THE BRITISH ATLANTIC ECONOMY AND THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION by C.Knick Harley
    “His claim that profits from the slave trade were crucial to the Industrial Revolution has not stood up to critical evaluation. […] For example, according to C. Knick Harley (2004, p. 194), “Self-sufficiency in 1860…would have cost Britain only…about 6 per cent of national income”

    From
    The Economic History of Britain since 1700, Vol. 1: 1700-1860 (Volume 1) 2nd Edición by Roderick Floud
    “it [the weak gain] was 1.6 per cent of GNP in 1870 and 4.9 per cent of GNP in 1913. […] the ‘strong’ gain from Empire was 4.3 per cent (i.e., 55 per cent of 7.9 per cent) of GNP in 1870 and 6.5 per cent of GNP in 1913. […] After 44 years without Empire induced growth, British GNP would’ve been lower by around 1%.”

    From
    British Imperialism Revisited: The Costs and Benefits of “Anglobalization” by Niall Ferguson
    and
    https://w4.stern.nyu.edu/sternbusiness/spring_summer_2003/anglobalization.html
    “The reality is that British rule was on balance conducive to economic growth. Tragically, most post-independence governments have failed to improve on it.”

  347. Malla says:
    @Malla

    From
    The Cambridge History of Capitalism: Volume 1, The Rise of Capitalism: From Ancient Origins to 1848 (The Cambridge History of Capitalism 2 Volume Hardback Set) Kindle Edition
    “The British empire, formed of a diverse collection of world regions with a shared official language and mutually compatible legal regimes, brought down transaction costs in exchanges between parts of the empire. The empire, therefore, was crucial to expanding the axes of interaction from commodity to capital, labor, and technology. Economic laws, especially in the sphere of commercial exchanges, broadened the scope of contracts. The railways and new trading activities attracted capital from London. New currency regimes reduced the risks of overseas investment.”

    [MORE]

    From
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4855763_The_Empire_Effect_The_Determinants_of_Country_Risk_in_the_First_Age_of_Globalization_1880_1913
    The Empire Effect: The Determinants of Country Risk in the First Age of Globalization, 1880 1913, The Journal of Economic History by Moritz Schularick & Niall Ferguson
    Schularick & Ferguson (2004) show colonies were able to borrow from London at significantly lower rates of interest.

    From
    https://academic.oup.com/ej/article-abstract/118/533/1805/5057686
    Trade and Empire by Kris James Mitchener, Marc Weidenmier
    Mitchener & Weidenmier (2008) show membership of empires generally meant greater trade volume.

    http://jwsr.pitt.edu/ojs/jwsr/article/view/683
    Research Note: Measuring the Impacts of Colonialism: A New Data Set for the Countries of Africa and Asia by Patrick Ziltener (University of Zurich), Daniel Künzler (University of Fribourg) & André Walter (University of St. Gallen)
    “We present a new dataset with 15 indicators for the political, economic and social impact of colonialism. This dataset and our four indices for the impact of colonialism create for the first time the opportunity to compare directly the levels of colonial transformation for a sample of 83 African and Asian countries. Some of our exploratory findings on the interrelation of the dimensions show that in British colonies political domination was in general less direct and less violent.”

    From
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00220388.2011.648621
    The Reversal of Fortune Thesis Reconsidered by Sanghamitra Bandyopadhyay &Elliott Green
    “Acemoglu, Johnson, and Robinson have claimed that the world income distribution underwent a ‘Reversal of Fortune’ from 1500 to the present, whereby formerly rich countries in what is now the developing world became poor while poor ones grew rich. We question their analysis with regard to both of their proxies for pre-modern income, namely urbanisation and population density.”

    From
    https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Disease-and-Diversity-in-Long-term-Economic-Birchenall/04cc9f89c5fd9a17b817759efde3d9b9aa1838cf?p2df
    Disease and Diversity in Long-term Economic Development by J. Birchenall
    “Ethnographic data on large and impressive structures and archeological censuses of cities suggest that during the pre-colonial era, sub-Saharan Africa lacked widespread state-consolidated power typical of large tributary empires such as the Incas and the Aztecs in tropical America. Ethnographic data also suggest that disease (i.e., environmentally-determined pathogen stress) limited pre-colonial economic development and state consolidation partly through a promoting of ethnic diversity. The effects of disease and ethnic diversity persist for a long time; pre-colonial factors continue to determine current income per capita and current indices of ethnolinguistic fractionalization.”

    From
    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.467.4597&rep=rep1&type=pdf
    Did colonization matter for growth? An empirical exploration into the historical causes of Africa’s underdevelopment by Graziella Bertocchia & Fabio Canovab
    Bertocchi and Canova (2002) show British Empire is correlated with post-colonial economic growth in Africa.

    From
    https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/shleifer/files/qualilty_govt_jleo.pdf
    & https://academic.oup.com/ereh/article/16/4/335/468311
    The origins of formal education in sub-Saharan Africa: was British rule more benign? by Ewout H.P. Frankema
    La Porta et al. (1999) as mentioned in Frankema (2012) find
    “British Empire has a positive correlation with the quality of present-day government institutions in Sub Saharan Africa”

  348. Malla says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Sorry for my late reply, there was a lot of …ahem trash to clean up on this page.
    Thank you for your kind words. I am happy to spread the truth.

    American academia has been teaching Americans and students throughout the world that Colonialism was BAD BAD BAD since the middle 1960s.

    That is what I was telling that Deep Thought, Western Civilization is far more self critical than other civilizations. And that crackpot Marxists dominate Western education institutions brainwashing generations of children.

    This Europe/ USA/ Japan looted the third world is all part of crackpot Marxist theories. See crackpot monkey Marx believed that Communism will come after Capitalist Industrialization and after it inevitably fails. In Marx’s dream it was not Russia who would become Communist. Tzarist Russia was industrializing very fast but by the time of the October revolution , it was still quite agrarian. Same with China at that time. Sure parts of China were Industrializing, especially Manchuria was part of the Japanese Empire or some parts of European enclaves, even KMT ruled areas were seeing industrialization, but China was not an industrialized country then when it went Communist. Same with Vietnam. These were not the nations who were supposed to go Communist when they went Communist but highly industrialized countries like Great Britain, Germany, Belgium, France, Netherlands, Japan etc… And these countries had Communist parties who tried to push Communism. After all the Indian Communist Party, like so many Communist parties in the Empire, came from the British Communist party. But after all that trying they failed, the labour unions of these Western European (or Japanese) did not trust them enough. Thus crackpot marx’s crackpot theory came out wrong. Capitalist Industrialized countries did not collapse and go Communist. To explain this anomaly, the commie monkeys came up with theories like the Capitalist countries export their excess production on their colonies. Voila. But any look at trade figures would show that only a small part of their trade were with their colonies. But this crackpot theory stuck. India is considered a famous example of this. Later a guy named Dadabhoy Norowji, a rich Parsi Indian highly involved in socialist circles in Britain wrote some paper in early 1900s about how Britain was “looting” India by importing raw material like Cotton and exporting finished goods like garments. This guy is considered the “Grandfather of India” today like how Gandhi is officially “father of the nation”. But any look at trade figures would show that British mills hardly used Indian cotton as Indian cotton was of low quality (it still is now a days as told to me by a textile Engineer from Bangladesh). British mills were using primarily American cotton followed by Egyptian cotton. Indian cotton was rarely used. It was only during the US Civil war did Indian cotton get used significantly in British mills as American cotton was hard to acquire. Indeed it was Japan in the early 1900 who imported the most Indian cotton not Britain. Thus actually Britain was actually “exploiting” America by this idiotic crackpot theory!!!! LOL. Yet this theory is touted everywhere. And this modern bullshit theory that Europe became rich on the back of their colonies. Which is bullshit.
    If this would be true, there was no way that Germany with its tiny overseas Empire for about 40 years, would become an economic challenge to the Anglo-French with their huge combined Empires. Portugal which was a colonial power for longer and had a larger Empire would have been a better contender than Germany. But that was not the case. The truth is the economic force driving the prosperity of these countries was not colonies but the massive Industrialization and the high IQ, highly productive workforce (Working class and middle class) of these metro-pole nations like Britain, Japan, Germany, France, Netherlands etc…

    Also Tzarist Russia was on its way to become a great agricultural exporter competing with the bread baskets of the USA. But the Soviets could never just get agriculture right and the USSR became a huge food importer!!!! So much for Marxist economics.

    Ghettofart’s ramblings are driven a lot by envy and hatred for the Global North.
    Thanks for the awesome music BTW.

    • Thanks: Yevardian
  349. d dan says:
    @Commentator Mike

    “What Malla is trying to say, in so many words, is that it is preferable to be ruled by Brits than by Indians. Maybe he’s got a point.”

    If you want to simplified to that level, the answer is no. Competency is one thing. But what about motivation? Who has/had/should have better motivation to rule over INDIA (not over you nor me) than Indian themselves?

    What is more important when hire an employee: competency or motivation? I choose the later. The former can be learned, especially if you have the later: look at China.

  350. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    LOL, you have been beaten like a bum, all your marxist bullshit debunked, all based on nonsense and envy and nothing else. You know you have been debunked, all your snobby pretensions mean nothing. You also were weak and incompetent in maths and logic. or you were feigning weakness because you knew you were beaten.
    You can describe things in any way you want, but anybody reading this page would know your bullshit points have been beaten like a drum here.
    Marxist calling someone a slum dweller as an insult? why do I always see this? I would have guessed Marxists would have been sympathetic to slum dwellers. You guys are not what you show yourselves to be. Very sinister people, you lot are. Very sinister.

  351. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    BTW, what kind of an idiot presents, as an “evidence” of the wonderful consequences for India of British imperial rule, the writtings of a British colonial administrator…?

    I am glad you brought this up and I will tell you why.
    I have read many books written by colonial officers, Viceroys, Captains in the army etc….
    1] They understood India extremely well. This is something I found baffling. The Indian subcontinent (British India) is the most complicated place on earth from a sociological point of view.All other parts of the world are BLAND BLAND BLAND. China is BLAND compared to the complications of the Indian subcontinent. Latin America with all its diversity and spicy Salsa is BLAND BLAND BLAND compared to the Indian subcontinent. Africa with all its diversity is BLAND BLAND BLAND compared to the Indian subcontinent. The Indian subcontinent is complicated beyond anything you guys can imagine. The diversity of religions, sects, ethnic groups, castes etc…it is mind boggling. India, the land of mysteries. And the British understood India exceedingly well. What I find interesting, how a people from the British Isles, so far away, could get this ancient land so well, catch its pulse extrmely well. All those British Lords and aristocrats. Hindu metaphysics is probably the most complicated in the World and yet those Lords understood the essence of it very well. They knew India, every nook and crony and complications of this very complicated place.
    The Chinese are pathetic in understanding the Indian subcontinent. But the Chinese understand India on average far better than Indians on average understand China, I will give you that.
    2] The British colonial writers were extremely honest and they openly accepted their mistakes. the easily and openly accepted the superiority of others without any inferiority complex feelings. Indians find it very difficult to do. The British did not hide their mistakes of the past. The Indian nationalist, Brahmanwadi, Islamist, Judaists, Chinese Nationalist all have one mantra and dance around farting like a low quality monkey “We biz perfect and shit…Our history biz perfect and sheet. All others are to blame”. this mantra unites the Indian nationalist, the Islamist and the Chinese Nationalist and Islamist and the Zionist etc…together. They are all alike in this. And best of all are the Communists/ marxists like you. No other people perhaps have killed and crushed millions with pleasure and glee. Lenin’s favourite word was shoot, shoot shoot shoot.
    Стрелять/Strelyat, Стрелять/Strelyat, Стрелять/Strelyat. And you Commie guys are experts in hiding our misdeeds. I give you guys that. Experts in propaganda.
    But not the British colonials in India. They openly accepted mistakes made in the past. There is a lot of self criticism. For example Mills on his excellent book on Indian history accepts that during the early EIC rule, there was exploitation and in his own words “The farmers of Bengal lay prostrate at the feet of the company”. Commies would have gone into overdrive via their propaganda to hide such facts of their history. Islamists too. Though there are few exceptional people there.
    Sir John Starchey admitted that some of the actions taken on the Rohillas by the British would fill an Englishman’s heart with shame. Such honesty. Can we expect that from a lowly Commie? Nah. Commies are experts at propaganda and covering up their tracts. Anyways the Rohillas were themselves ferocious warlike people who caused pain to the populations around them.
    Anyways why I refer to their writings is that they accept their mistake, are very objective, understand the opposite point of view far better than any other party I come across and they refer them in their writings. They are in general very honest and objective in their writings. Far far far more than Indian nationalists of the Indian Nationalist Congress who are good liars. Now the CCP clashes with the Indian deep State of those anti-British lying revolutionaries. Both sides lie well.

  352. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    The mystery of Ghettofarts. Leaves South America, is a Marxist, lives in North America, but not Cuba,. The guy could have moved to Cuba. But he does not. He seems interested in making North America into another Cuba. Which means the scumbag Communist elites will live like kings while the remaining live like slaves, experts in propaganda. Does not move to his “paradise” of Cuba!!!

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  353. gatobart says:
    @Commentator Mike

    But you got a point there. In fact if I was an Indian I would be ashamed of how good my countrymen have been at keeping India in the Third World, but also at how much they love to lick British backside. Maybe one thing goes with the other. And ashamed also of having Mahatma Gandhi as my “liberation leader”. The guy was a complete fraud. As Nelson Mandela. How do I know it…? Well, you don’t see the British celebrating the 90th anniversary of Che Guevara or Fidel Castro or Mao Tse Tung in Hyde Park with the presence 50.000, including royalty and every pop rock in the world; neither Hollywood has made any multimillion film production about any of them.

    • Replies: @Malla
  354. gatobart says:
    @d dan

    Absolutely no. Dead wrong. The best example…? Adolf Hitler. He was the man the most motivated in the world to rule over Poland, the whole of Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union, at least until de Urals. Question: was he the most appropriate ruler for them, was he good for them.? To put the question forward is to answer it.

    Rule number one: the most motivated people to rule a country are usually the ones who most have to win by doing so, usually by plunder and gangsterism.

    And your pick for competency vs motivation doesn’t work in the workplace either. Just watch Peter Seller’s Indian bugler in that short segment of The Party. The poor guy is overly motivated, he can’t stop playing the bugle, but is it that, competency…? He ruined the movie.

    • Replies: @Malla
  355. gatobart says:

    BTW, you have to consider also that the man or woman who hires you is NOT usually the same one as your future boss and that in the end may he/she the may end up being the ONLY one to appreciate your great motivation. Most of the times, above all in big companies, that will be someone from HR or even some employee from some outside hiring agency. They are NOT the ones who will be working with you or who will be your boss.

    As for smaller companies, many times the person hiring you is the boss and/or owner of the company or someone who worls at an upper level and he/she will certainly appreciate your great motivation but once hired you better not look or act so motivated because the people actually working with you won`t always appreciate it. Your immediate boss may start suspecting that you are an ambitious little prick who is after his job if you look too motivated and, even worse, the people working with you may start hating you because you make them look bad. They may even sabotage your work and gang up against you to get you fired.

    Yep, the workplace is a very nasty environement, a true minefield.

  356. Rich says:
    @Badger Down

    “Bush”, in military circles, means the sticks, or the empty areas of a country. Sorry for not realizing how many non-military or non 3rd world travellers, like yourself, were unfamiliar with the term. Sometimes I forget how untraveled many folks are.

  357. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    but also at how much they love to lick British backside.

    You are low IQ monkey who blabbers bullshit. How do I know it…?
    Indian textbooks and the media is full of anti-British lies and propaganda.

    British celebrating the 90th anniversary of Che Guevara or Fidel Castro or Mao Tse Tung in Hyde Park with the presence 50.000, including royalty a

    I see snobby Hollywood billionaires wear Che T-shirts. I see overpaid Professors in Capitalist America teach Marxism. I sees super rich Corporations like google ban right winged video but leave Marxist videos alone. There is this channel called Ushanka Show by a ex-Soviet guy living in Ukraine. He criticized Lenin in one of his videos and his video got demonetized. He was surprised by big corporation Youtube. What do I make of that? I see pro-Stalin movies being made in the USA during WW2, what do I make of that? EvuL Capitalist Murica loving the Stalin, the Old Uncle Joe? What does I make of that?

  358. Malla says:
    @gatobart

    Adolf Hitler. He was the man the most motivated in the world to rule over Poland, the whole of Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union, at least until de Urals.

    No he was not. His own words show that it was a pre-Emptive strike. Romania turned to Germany for help when they saw Soviet troops massing up at their borders. That is why 6 nations made the defensive strike, not Germany alone. It were the Communists who were motivated to rule the World. They are the best example of gansterism and Plunder in human history.

  359. gatobart says:
    @Rich

    I understand you hate America, but that doesn’t change the fact that the US was able to occupy and control Afghanistan for 20 years with relatively few casualties.

    That’s pure B.S. The U.S. never controlled Afghanistan. You don’t control a country and then have to lave it in the meddle of the night without telling anyone or even leaving a “I’ll call you note”. The fact is that Amerrica never controlled even a patch of land in Afghanistan, the country was controlled by local warlords for all of the time and Amerrica had to deal with them to keep[ the pretense it was the occupying power. You don’t control a country if you lose your grip on in in less than a week without even giving a fight.

    Your “we controlled Afghanistan for 20 years” reminds me of Von Ribbentrop’s statement when he was meeting Molotov in Berlin and they had to take cover in an air raid shelter because the alert was given that RAF bombers were on their way. He tried to reassure the Soviet Foreign Relations Minister that Great Britain was already beaten to which Molotov acidly answered “if they are beaten, when what are we doing in this shelter…?” If America controlled Afghanistan what are they doing huddled up and shaking in fear in the airport waiting for plane to rescue them…?

    • Agree: vox4non
  360. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    China has two options.
    1] Subsidize large number of Indians to tour China and to experience the PRC up close. I am talking about 100s of millions. Let them experience China, its first class cities and its historical sites, a months tour. As I have said, Indians who experience China, who have worked there for some time or have gone as tourists become- pro China. But normally they seem to be from the Westernised elites or Middle Classes and they on becoming pro-China are called “traitors” and “sell out scum” by the masses. I do not know why, but it works like magic. One month tours would be enough.
    Soon the Indian nationalists would be singing praises of China. LOL.
    2] In case of a major war, China can liberate the North East of India including Sikkim and make it a buffer State. With that, the Indo-China border will shrink and become more manageable. The North Eastern Indian natives hate India anyways and would like to be liberated. But be sure to expel the Indian mainlander Hindus and Muslims from Bangladesh from that place. China’s popularity will sky rocket there among the natives even further. Make the whole place a federal nation as it is quite diverse with many ethnic groups, each with its own province, with Sikkim as a separate independent buffer nation state. Get the region of Darjeeling from West Bengal State of India and give it to independent Sikkim, as they belonged to Sikkim before the British. Get the descendant of the Sikkimese King back and put him on the throne of Sikkim. This would also liberate the Kingdom of Bhutan from Indian control.
    Since India is planning liberating Tibet to make it a buffer nation in between India and China, China can partly do that with the Indian North East.

    • Replies: @Smith
  361. @d dan

    I think ultimately people should be ruled by their own, or rule themselves, regardless of whether that be the best for them or not.

  362. @Malla

    Castro may have been a Jew, but I doubt he was a CIA guy, who removed the puppet dictator Batista ruling on behalf of the Jewish mob of Meyer Lansky et al. I can’t see the point why you are so in favour of these Jewish mobsters and their Cuban puppets. If Castro suppressed them, tortured them and expelled them so what? It’s not as if they weren’t doing the same to other Cubans just to safeguard the profits of the foreign Jewish mobs. You pick and choose what references you quote and videos you link to. I bet there are as many, if not more, detailing the operations of the American Jewish mobsters in Cuba and the evil deeds of their Cuban puppets.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Truth
  363. Smith says:
    @Malla

    Bruh, afraid not, India has beaten China.

    Look at this meme power:

    Xi Jinping fucking got owned so bad my man.

    • LOL: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
  364. Malla says:
    @Smith

    LOL, Thanks bud.
    Many of the themes seem to have been copied from Kungfu Panda movie. We Indians cannot do anything without copying some idea, our Bollywood industry is a good example of that.

    • Replies: @Smith
  365. Malla says:
    @Commentator Mike

    I know truth is stranger than fiction by I have given enough information in my posts. Castro was a State Department guy. The US State Department is full of Marxists. The US ambassador of the USA to Cuba has written about this in book “The Fourth Floor”. I have posted his video.

    If Castro suppressed them, tortured them and expelled them so what?

    Castro tortured and suppressed the masses of Cuba, he drove away Union leaders, tortured more Cubans per capita than Stalin. There were many revolutions by farmers against him.
    Batista was center left and there were many Communists in his Government anyways who smoothly moved to Castro’s regime.

    The US media are totally 100% pro-Castro and do propaganda for him. But it is all fake. Cuba is basically a North Korea like modern feudal state behind covers and cool disguises.

    Everything You’ve Ever Seen About Cuba Is A Lie
    Watch it. American Corporate media, multi billion dollars media doing Communist Propaganda.
    Check out those Cubans waiting in line for fuel in front of the petrol station.

    • Replies: @Malla
  366. Malla says:
    @Malla

    Check out those Cubans waiting in line for fuel in front of the petrol station.

    I have never seen lines like that in India for anything, ever. Never. And we have 100 times the population of Cuba.

  367. Smith says:
    @Malla

    Well, China copies too. Lot of chinese media copy japanese anime art style and choreography.

    The crying of copy or rip-off is just cope of the one who lost.
    Some of these Xi vs. Modi animations are outright friggin’ cool and/or hilarious:

    • Agree: Malla
  368. Truth says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Castro may have been a Jew, but I doubt he was a CIA guy,

    Why? He was certainly connected.

  369. shotgun6 says:

    Right on about the lies our military told us concerning how “well equipped” we left the Afghan National Army. In fact, if you actually look at what was “left behind”, the really big question is What the Hell did we (the US taxpayers) spend all that money on???? I suspect (a little sarcasm here) that of the fabled “84 billion” reported, 82.5 billion went to consultant fees, contractor services, “building training facilities”, the US military itself, and paying the salaries of the Afghan military and police over 20 years (since Afghanistan lacked the resources to pay themselves).

    20 years of building a military, and they were left with ZERO combat aircraft (except for approximately 25 super tucano propeller-driven trainer/”attack” planes, half of which were flown off to foreign countries, and the other half of which don’t work, and some propeller driven Cessna Caravans “configured” to fire missiles; ZERO jet attack aircraft) ZERO real attack helicopters, and a hodgepodge of mostly grounded utility aircraft and helicopters consisting of ex-Soviet equipment and “rehabbed” MD Defenders and Blackhawks (“rehabbed” meaning, old craft retired from US service, washed and given new engines at an exorbitant price with the money going to, of course, US contractors)

    For the army; besides a collection of old and worn out Soviet vehicles and “donated junk” from our allies, they have thousands of Humvees (a vehicle we ourselves consider obsolescent and are looking to replace) and a few hundred/up to 2000 (maybe) MRAPs, that we ourselves were cutting up as scrap and disposing of as “excess” in Afghanistan for years, as they were considered “surplus” to our needs and both “too complicated” for the ANA to use and maintain and “too expensive” to bother to ship back home. They have some old (but “rehabbed”, of course) Soviet D-30 howitzers, and a lot of small arms. NO tanks, or other armored fighting vehicles (putting a machine gun on on a tin can does not make it an AFV), NO self-propelled artillery, and NO real drone capability, even including reconnaissance drones. And forget about any real, working logistical capability.

    Now, maybe that’s about all the Afghan military was capable of handling; or all we felt we could trust them with; but it certainly leads one to conclude that the ANA had an extremely marginal combat capability, and couldn’t have done very well even if they had wanted to fight; and it certainly does NOT imply that the Taliban has any sort of “windfall” that will make them a “superpower”.

    The sad part is, the South African Defense Force (just for one example) back in the 1970s showed anyone wanting to see how to properly equip an army for the type of fighting experienced in Afghanistan, and had produced (despite an international arms embargo) a full line-up of relatively cheap, but rugged, reliable, survivable, easily maintainable, long range armored vehicles and aircraft perfectly adapted to operating over long distances in a brutally harsh environment, that blow away the uncountable tons of useless garbage we “generously” bequeathed to the ANA. But of course, the US military always “knows better”.

    I absolutely agree that anything we (US forces) left behind (as opposed to having already issued to the ANA), or anything received in-country but not-yet-issued to the ANA, should have been destroyed before we left; that it fell into Taliban hands was absolute incompetence on our part; but the idea that “somehow” all this junk is going to make the Taliban an international threat is just nonsense.

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