The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewFred Reed Archive
Conspiracy Theories: Among the Illuminati
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

The appeal of conspiracy theories is strong. They seem to provide the believer a sense of esoteric understanding, of elevation above the limited grasp of moiling herd. They may make life less boring. Yet to many people, including me, they seem borderline delusional. How come?

The curious thing is that CTs–Conspiracy Theorists–seldom seem to be crackpots. I have friends who are CTs, have known others. They have been otherwise sane, not unsophisticated, and intelligent, sometimes very intelligent. Apparently to be twisted you have to start with enough string.

There are common threads. Believers in one theory usually believe in several. Choose from JFK, RFK, black helicopters, Nine Eleven, various plane crashes, FEMA camps manned and ready to hold thousands of political prisoners, and fluoridation of water to soften our brains.

Other commonalities exist, forming a sort of syndrome. Though often silly, the theories are intensely held, usually involve unfamiliarity with underlying material, vastly complicate simple explanations, and willfully overlook obvious inconsistencies and absurdities. This is puzzling in, again, intelligent men (I have met only on conspiracy theoritess.)

Further, the conspiracy theorist–here is the squarely part–seems to live in a world of DUMs– Disembodied Uniform Malignancies. These are a sort of metaphysical clouds that cause large of people to behave as if controlled by some unspecified central entity: The media, the military, governments, law enforcement. This is wacky, but universal among CTs.

Some examples:

Nine Eleven

This is the Conspiracy Theory par excellence. There are many variants. The mainstream holds that the Israelis destroyed the towers by controlled demolition to provide a pretext for the American attack on Iraq. (Then why does the “official story” blame it on the Saudis? It makes no sense. See?) The aircraft were presumably flown by Israeli suicide pilots. After the airliners hit, the buildings were blown up by explosives planted within. This was to make it appear that the aircraft dropped the buildings. (Then why wait an hour after the planes hit to blow up the buildings? But never mind.)

To weave the tissue of the theory, the CTs begin with their customary unfamiliarity with their subject, and with their strange lack of interest in research. Since they are not stupid, this is puzzling.

To persuade the thoughtful, they would need to show that controlled demolition was possible. They do not. They do not even try.

Controlled demolition is a technical and highly specialized field. It involves placing calculated amounts of explosive in calculated places with calculated timing. Equations govern how much of what explosive placed how will cut what kind of support. Yet in reading too much of this stuff, I have seen no indication that one CT in a hundred could tell PETN from a ham sandwich. The focus is on dark hidden forces, plots, cabals.

In a documentary I saw detailing the demolition of a building of perhaps twelve stories, much prepping was involved: knocking out of walls to get at supporting elements, sawing through beams to weaken them, planting explosives and stringing det cord everywhere on multiple floors.

There is obviously no way this could be done in a huge building, at least partly occupied twenty-four seven, with large maintenance crews working nights, without being spotted. The idea is silly. So the CTs either ignore the question or–protecting the theory by expanding it–say that the maintenance crews must have been in on it.

Note that very few people know anything about controlled demolition. The CIA doesn’t, nor Mossad, nor the military. A very few firms, such as CDI, Controlled Demolition Incorporated, do know. Where did the necessary large number of trained men come from? Did the Mossad go to a bar frequented by CDI guys and say, “Hey, Ralph, we’re about to blow up some buildings in New York, kill a few thousand people. Yeah, a real hoot. You want in? Don’t tell anybody I asked.” Of course anyone so approached would call the FBI. But we are not dealing with real questions of the real world, but with a Disembodied Malignant Field. Perhaps the necessary specialists materialized out of thin ether like subatomic particles, and then vanished back into the cosmic background.

Here we come to Complexity Expansion: CTs scrap the Official Story, replacing it with with one implicating the governments of Israel and the US, the media, the controlled-demolition industry, a large janitorial staff, and the law-enforcement agencies that (they day) have hidden the plot. If you asked the CTs why they do not favor a criminal investigation to apprehend the perpetrators, they would reply that everyone knows law enforcement is in on it. Again, expand the theory to protect it.

JFK

Never having paid much attention to the assassination of JFK, about which I know little, from curiosity I Googled “Grassy Knoll,” whence the alleged second sniper supposedly fired. “Hanh?” I thought on seeing a photo. “Am I missing something? This is nuts.”

The knoll is self-evidently the last place in Dallas to put a sniper. (The best was the book repository.) A small island, with virtually no cover, surrounded on all sides by trafficked city streets and overlooked by windows in several buildings. How sensible.

So: In broad daylight, lots of people around, the President coming through, and a guy carrying a rifle walks up the knoll. Nobody notices. Well, maybe it was deer season and lots of people with rifles were wandering around. Alternatively, a guy, with a rifle, climbs up the backside of the knoll, under the windows, with traffic passing by. Probably lots of men did that, with rifles, so it didn’t seem out of the ordinary. Or maybe he hid the night before on the grassy knoll, where there is nowhere to hide, and waited next day for the President.

Then, having shot JFK, he walks back down the knoll, with his rifle, unnoticed, or climbs back down the other side, with his rifle. Nothing conspicuous in that. It’s probably how the CIA usually does assassinations.

This–the not noticing of gross implausibility–characterizes CTs. Anyone familiar with rifles will note the great difficulty of hitting a moving eight-inch bull on a semi-crossing path while holding fire until Oswald shot. Many such inconsistencies exist.

TWA 800

ORDER IT NOW

An illustrative conspiracy theory is that of flight TWA 800 that blew up just after takeoff from New York in 1996 and crashed, killing all aboard. The “official story” was that a fuel leak caused the explosion. CTs insist that the US Navy accidentally shot it down during a live -fire exercise.

Which is absurd.

Now, I came up in journalism as a newspaper reporter. In my time, though no longer, newspapers esteemed factual accuracy. The paper might be biased politically, and always was, but the reporter had better get his facts right. The consequences of not doing so were finding another job, libel suits, and just plain embarrassment.

The enforcer of this regimen was the desk editor. He tended to be cynical, remorselessly unsympathetic, and unbullshittable. When you handed in your copy, he expected it to be sourced. There was a saying, “If your mother says she loves you, check it out.”

By the Desk Editor standard, most if not all conspiracy theories are nonsense. They are huge on passive voice, blind quotes, and lack of verification. It’s the spirit of the thing that counts.

In the case of TWA 800, you find assertions like, “Navy ships were known to be in the area.” Ah. Which ships? How known? Known by whom? Names? Phone numbers? Or “Witnesses saw a streak like a missile….” Which witnesses? Names? Phone numbers? Had they ever seen a missile fired? Or “Laboratory tests confirmed residues consistent with a missile strike….” No doubt, Jimmy Olson. What lab? Can I see the report?

Again, we find little knowledge of the bones of the story, and a lack of research. Anyone with the slightest familiarity with the military knows that the Navy does not do live-fire exercises, with no target, and no prior notification, at the end of massively trafficked urban runways. One might as well say that JFK was killed by a division of Marines engaged in live-fire infantry exercises in downtown Dallas, perhaps wearing CIA invisibility suits. Or maybe it was the staff of Mother Jones, which is as likely as the Navy.

For the record, during the decades when I was covering the military for the Washington Times and Universal Press Syndicate among others, live-fire missile tests went thusly: get an obsolete fighter from some boneyard, usually Davis-Monthan. Fit it with a remote-control pack. Send the firing ship and its escorts to a region with little civilian aviation. Give public notification well in advance. The skeet bird then flies over at the desired profile. Whoosh, boom. airliners.

Today old F-16s are used for targets as well as specifically designed unmanned target RPVs.

A radio-controlled Vietnam-era F-4 Phantom standardly used as live-fire target
A radio-controlled Vietnam-era F-4 Phantom standardly used as live-fire target

Wikipedia: “The QF-4 is a remotely controlled target, which simulates enemy aircraft maneuvers. The aerial target can be flown by remote control or with a safety pilot to monitor its performance. The QF-4 is flown unmanned when missiles are fired at it, and only in specific over-water airspace authorized for unmanned flight. When flown unmanned, an explosive device is placed in the QF-4 to destroy the aircraft if it inadvertently becomes uncontrollable.”

Most of this is available on the web, but CTs don’t bother.

Another newspapering saying comes to mind. “A burro is an ass. A burrow is a hole in the ground. A reporter should know the difference.” Now why did I think of that?

Northrop-Grumman Firebee live-fire target. Specialized units, such as the 82nd Target Squadron, operate these for live fire.
Northrop-Grumman Firebee live-fire target. Specialized units, such as the 82nd Target Squadron, operate these for live fire.

In this conspiracy as in most we see the Disembodied Uniform Malignancy: If “Navy ships” had shot down the airliner, some five hundred men, and maybe more depending on the number of “Navy ships,” would have known it. Their response would have been, “JESUS, we just… God Almighty, that was a freaking….” etc. They would then have told everyone they knew about it. The captain would have been court-martialed.

But CTs see the Navy as one multicellular thing, like the fruiting body of a slime mold, one mind composed of many cells–i.e., sailors–who will keep perfect silence about mass murder.

Likewise the media, composed of thousands of reporters who would give one leg and a lung to break such a story, obediently and mysteriously cover it up. Uh…yeah.

And the enormous complication: From a simple explanation–a fuel leak and a spark, or a bomb–we have gone to a sprawling conspiracy involving many hundreds of men, the national press, the Navy brass up to the Pentagon, ships of unconfirmed existence engaged in wildly implausible missile firing, unavailable reports from unnamed labs. Whew!

For the non-CT, I once went to sea on a shakedown cruise aboard the Vincennes, a Tico-class AA cruiser with the SPY-1 phased-array radar, then hot stuff, and watched simulated firing from the CIC. There is no way to fire “accidentally,” as missiles are not armed and, if the skipper went Queeg-gaga and ordered firing at an airliner, no one would obey.

Oh well. I’m going to lunch.

(Republished from Fred on Everything by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: American Media, Conspiracy Theories 
Hide 446 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    Pageview/Comment bait?

    I learned nothing except that Mr. Reed has grown too old and tired to debate any of these topics in good faith. His sophomoric snark isn’t worthy of publication.

    I hope that Mr. Unz isn’t lowering his standards in the race to pass up other websites in the numbers game.

    • Replies: @Simply Simon
    , @zuchev
  2. Voltara says:

    Does Fred believe politicians and the ruling class always tell us the truth?

    • Replies: @Patricus
  3. wow.
    im speechless.

    • Agree: Moi
    • Replies: @wally
  4. Fred tries to hit too many CT targets in a short article. The only one he devotes considerable space to is TWA 800. I admit that I never spent time looking into that one, so I have no reason to doubt him.

    Fred made me think about 9/11. Not knowing anything about construction, I’ve always been agnostic about how it happened. He made some interesting points about how controlled demolition works. Still, there’s that sticky argument from 9/11 Engineers and Architects for Truth which he ignores. Are they CT’s also?

    As for JFK, he devotes a scant 5 short paragraphs (and admits he knows little of the subject), implying that the only other shots besides Oswald’s must have come from the Grass Knoll, and that it would have been impossible to pull off from there without being spotted. With perhaps hundreds of books written on the subject, surely there are other possible scenarios which he blew off. Fred’s argument seems to be especially weak here.

    Three conspiracies in a 1,900 word essay seems like two too many.

  5. Beb says:

    Fred, people take these theories seriously because they have been lied to so often, that they simply assume that the “mainstream media” spin is just another lie.

    • Replies: @2stateshmustate
  6. Fredo-in-Mexico

    sets up pinata versions of several conspiracy theories,

    and duly smashes them.

    way to go,

    Fredo

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  7. Possibly he’s trying to revive a flagging writing career in which he seldom says anything new or interesting. He got boring and repetitive a long time ago. He does give this site a bit of variety, i.e. the appearance that it is actually about more than the obligatory three topics.

    It’s the sweeping generalizations about large groups of people that really makes a Fred column (e.g. blacks, women, biologists, etc.). I wonder if Paul Craig Roberts knows that he is a “CT” who “does not favor a criminal investigation to apprehend the perpetrators.”

  8. Patricus says:
    @Voltara

    He probably believes politicians always lie. When reading 911 demolition conspiracies I am at a disadvantage because I know little about controlled demolitions or the metals’ sciences. I just question how the CIA, Mossad and Saudi terrorists coordinated this attack in a masterful scheme of deceit. Countless others had to be wise to this plan including Jew bankers and insurance bigwigs. I’ve never met such clever and dedicated people who could maintain an iron code of loyalty. Hundreds of “agents” were able to place charges precisely and strategically throughout the buildings and no one ever suspected anything. When entering the building the guard might ask what’s in that large box? Oh, just silly putty officer, therapy for Jewish bankers. OK Ali (or Shlomo), have a nice day.

  9. Tusk says:

    The CIA doesn’t, nor Mossad, nor the military. A very few firms, such as CDI, Controlled Demolition Incorporated, do know

    I’m interested as to how Fred has insider knowledge on what the CIA and Mossad know, one would guess they try to keep their agents under wraps, but I’m sure Fred knows better than I.

  10. I’ve been through the three CTs Fred discusses and I find them to be credible. From my perspective, it does leave you alienated. I do seem to live in a darker, more sinister world than people who don’t care much one way or the other.

    I’ll even add one he leaves out, the UFO conspiracy. Recently Bob Lazar came forward again and reaffirmed his story that he worked on recovered UFO technology at S3 in Area 51. The US government denied there even was an Area 51 or S3. So, Lazar’s story keeps proving true over time.

    There are pretty good documentaries on most of these CTs. You can even find some of them on YouTube for free.

    Bob Lazar: Area 51 & Flying Saucers

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  11. republic says:

    https://www.unz.com/freed/legion-of-the-tinfoil-hat/

    Reed wrote this in September 2016.

    It is his so called definitive account of 9/11.

    After I read that article I never took Reed seriously again.

    • Agree: The Scalpel
    • Replies: @atlantis_dweller
    , @Taras77
  12. Rabbit says:

    Hollow laugh : Civilian airliner Iran Air 655 shot down by USS Vincennes

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

    Despite the mistakes made in the downing of the plane, the men of USS Vincennes were awarded Combat Action Ribbons for completion of their tours in a combat zone. The air-warfare coordinator on duty received the Navy Commendation Medal

    There’s even a technical term for it: SNAFU: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/SNAFU

    • Replies: @jrkrideau
  13. Is this serious? Why would you debunk a ‘conspiracy theory’ about 9/11 by creating a strawman to knock down? I never heard about “Israeli suicide pilots” Either you don’t know anything about the subject to be even commenting Freddy or else you are pulling some sort of prank which I am not getting. As for JFK and the rest…you’re not telling us you buy the official rubbish surely? Silly article. Total waste of space and 15 years too late.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  14. Ronnie says:

    This person obviously does not read the articles in unz.con on these subjects. I am surprised that someone so thoughtless and poorly informed can publish at will on unz.com. Perhaps it is the early stages of dementia.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke, republic
    • Replies: @follyofwar
  15. anon[129] • Disclaimer says:

    5 dancing Israeli Mossad agents, dresse as Arabs, celebration and filming. Coincidence? Building 7, not hit by a plane, imploding from within? Coincidence also?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  16. Biff says:

    For the non-CT, I once went to sea on a shakedown cruise aboard the Vincennes, a Tico-class AA cruiser with the SPY-1 phased-array radar, then hot stuff, and watched simulated firing from the CIC. There is no way to fire “accidentally,” as missiles are not armed and, if the skipper went Queeg-gaga and ordered firing at an airliner, no one would obey.

    Previous comments obviously missed the sarcasm.

    • Agree: foolisholdman
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  17. I dunno. I’m no expert either, Fred.

    But I do wonder about this official timeline:

    8:46:40: Flight 11 crashes into the north face of the North Tower (1 WTC) of the World Trade Center.

    8:50–8:54 (approx.): Flight 77 is hijacked above southern Ohio.

    9:03:00: Flight 175 crashes into the south face of the South Tower (2 WTC) of the World Trade Center.

    9:37:46: Flight 77 crashes into the western side of The Pentagon.

    How is that a civilian airliner crashed into the **back** of the Pentagon, the least important section, over 40 minutes after it was hijacked, over 50 minutes after the first attack in NYC?

    Why didn’t the hijackers plant the plane into the neoclassical facade on the front of the building which was easily visible from the air, right into Donald Rumsfeld’s office?

    Why wasn’t that plane shot down? How is it possible that they entered one of the most heavily defended air spaces in the world, without being engaged?

    Why can’t we see the dozens of surveillance videos recording that event that definitely exist? Why can’t we see the evidence? What is the FBI hiding?

    Leave aside the dozens upon dozens of other interesting questions about that morning, or interesting questions about other “conspiracy” theories (what was Jack Ruby’s purported motive again? how many airliners have been brought down by a “spark in a kerosene fuel tank” again?) I say that the official story about what happened at the Pentagon is bullshit.

    This is easily your laziest piece ever, Fred. Come on, man.

    • Agree: follyofwar
    • Replies: @dearieme
  18. Mr. Reed has grown comfortable on the government dole and can’t accept that his paymasters are not saints. It is obvious that he has spent very little time researching these topics, because he already knows the truth from watching lots of TV. Or maybe his family has been threatened.

    Anyway, here is something from my blog with links pasted in:

    Aug 20, 2018 – True Conspiracy Theories

    Decades after a major event that made no sense, the truth is often revealed. This is never covered by the major media, but enough evidence is uncovered and published so that anyone can learn the truth. In recent years, two big “conspiracies” have been proven true.

    TWA Flight 800 did not explode in mid-air because of an electrical short. It was accidentally hit by a US Navy anti-aircraft missile during a training exercise. An outstanding 2013 documentary: TWA Flight 800 appeared on Netflix, https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3040528/
    but was removed after just a few weeks. It featured two senior NTSB investigators of TWA 800 who declared the investigation was a cover-up by the Clinton administration, and waited until they retired to speak out. Several books http://militarycorruption.com/flight-800/
    have appeared that provide undeniable evidence, but our corporate media refuses to correct its lies.

    The other “conspiracy” is that James Earl Ray did not assassinate Martin Luther King. This was proven in court after he died. The evidence is overwhelming, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/03/30/who-killed-martin-luther-king-jr-his-family-believes-james-earl-ray-was-framed/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f4df643ae521
    but our history books will not change. King was about to lead 500,000 Americans on a march to Washington DC where they planned to camp out until changes occurred. Several violent riots had occurred in other cities in recent months, and a half million marchers joined by a half million locals could overwhelm riot police and sack our nation’s government. As a result, the Deep State killed King, and used its control of our media to blame Ray. https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/01/14/usgov-mlk/
    _________________________

    As an ageing US Marine, Mr Reed often provides insight and good stories. For this same reason, he is unable to conduct serious research (he is now blind), admit to mistakes, or apologize to readers. Perhaps he is just tolling for hits, thus the childish comments on 9-11. I have enjoyed his work for decades, but he never issues corrections. I’d like to think he is just trying humor for a change, and failed.

    • Agree: Carroll Price
    • Replies: @warbling j turpitude
  19. Mr. Reed seems unaware that crazy CT Ron Unz wrote about the TWA 800 coverup in 2016. Here was my comment:

    Thank you for revisiting this “conspiracy”, the first which opened my eyes. Here are two videos for those too young or too busy to know about this. The first is about a National Guard pilot flying nearby who had served in Vietnam, and reported in the well read “Aviation Week” that a missile streaked upward and hit the airplane. This report was ignored, although a local news station did this report:

  20. @Carlton Meyer

    hello to you, sir, you who maintains that it’s Fred Reed’s very peepers that are ‘covered up’ – would you be so bold as to venture an explanation out front here of why, in the case of the Vincennes, operating way the f**k out there in the Persian Gulf or wherever it was, there was no chance of ‘covering up’ the terrible blunder – but give us a vessel of some sort abeam of Long Island. NY, and that bugger is virtually buried in the governmental equivalent of the Turin Shroud from the get-go? Could you demonstrate for the group why there appears to be no conceptual rapprochement between these two outcomes whatsoever? Pretty please?

    • Replies: @jrkrideau
  21. “Yet to many people, including me, they seem borderline delusional.”

    Actually, most CTs seem more plausible than what is presented as “fact”:

    911: Official story is indeed plausible, but man oh man what engineering savvy and execution it took to pull it off … the kind of modelling and logistics only major agencies have would be very useful.

    JFK: Yeah, that magic bullet thingy seems like a great explanation.

    TWA-800: The official story is plausible, and I don’t believe the US Navy has people so evil to be so careless in a live fire exercise, but there is insufficient evidence to refute that some power shot it down.

  22. Pat Sarte says:

    I used to enjoy reading Fred Reed, but this article ruined it for me. Reed wants us to swallow the bovine excrement shovelled at us by the authorities and prestitutes and stop asking questions

  23. swamped says:

    “The curious thing is that CTs–Conspiracy Theorists–seldom seem to be crackpots. I have friends who are CTs, have known others. They have been otherwise sane, not unsophisticated, and intelligent, sometimes very intelligent. Apparently to be twisted you have to start with enough string”…and to be un-twisted you apparently have to be a stringer for the Washington Times.
    ” Other commonalities exist, forming a sort of syndrome.[or a sort of a sort of a syndrome] Though often silly, the theories are intensely held, [why wouldn’t they be?]usually involve unfamiliarity with underlying material,[but familiarity with LYING material] vastly complicate simple explanations,[which had originally oversimplified complicated explanations] and willfully overlook obvious inconsistencies and absurdities [instead looking into willful inconsistencies and absurdities in official explanations]. This is puzzling in, again, intelligent men (I have met only on(sic) conspiracy theoritess(sic))” Is that her in the above photo?
    9/11″This is the Conspiracy Theory par excellence. There are many variants(sic). The mainstream holds that the Israelis destroyed the towers by controlled demolition to provide a pretext for the American attack on Iraq. (Then why does the “official story” blame it on the Saudis? It makes no sense. See?)”…the “official story” used for the attack on Iraq – weapons of mass destruction – makes no sense either.See?And was not used for 9/11 officially: 9/11 was used for Afghanistan & the ‘war on terror’, also used by Israel (&Saudi Arabia) to slay their own designated ‘terrorists’.See?
    “The aircraft were presumably flown by Israeli suicide pilots”…still vainly searching for anyone else who has ever presumed this.Maybe it was that one & only UFO “theoritess(sic)??
    “After the airliners hit, the buildings were blown up by explosives planted within. This was to make it appear that the aircraft dropped the buildings. (Then why wait an hour after the planes hit to blow up the buildings?” [the North Tower burned for 102 minutes before collapsing; South Tower, a little less.] “But never mind.)”
    “To persuade the thoughtful, they would need to show that controlled demolition was possible. They do not. They do not even try…Controlled demolition is a technical and highly specialized field”…so trust me because it showed it all in “a documentary I saw detailing the demolition of a building of perhaps twelve stories” once on TV. Duh.
    ” Note that very few people know anything about controlled demolition. The CIA doesn’t, nor Mossad, nor the military”…I asked them once in a bar frequented by Mossad & CIA guys and they all told me with a straight face, no, of course not, they didn’t know nothin’ about it. Scouts honor! Duh,duh.
    “Here we come to Complexity [Exclusion]: CT critics cling to “the Official Story,[because] replacing it with with one implicating the governments of Israel and the US, the media, the controlled-demolition industry, a large janitorial staff, and the law-enforcement agencies that (they day(sic)) have hidden the plot”…is too complicated. Instead..” they would reply that everyone knows law enforcement is in on it”…and can be trusted to do its job. Again, stick to the official story to protect it. What’s a journalist for, after all?

    • Replies: @warbling j turpitude
  24. 1) Very interesting – I can confirm because I too know a few of those CTs. Lots of good observations.

    2) “Other commonalities exist, forming a sort of syndrome. Though often silly, the theories are intensely held, usually involve unfamiliarity with underlying material, vastly complicate simple explanations, and willfully overlook obvious inconsistencies and absurdities. This is puzzling in, again, intelligent men (I have met only on conspiracy theoritess.)

    To weave the tissue of the theory, the CTs begin with their customary unfamiliarity with their subject, and with their strange lack of interest in research. Since they are not stupid, this is puzzling.”

    This sounds a lot like holocaust denialists too. – You might (not?) try this one next time.

    Theoritess is the plural of theorist, no? I don’t mind, I’m just askin’.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  25. @anon

    Yes indeed! Fred has outed himself as a Coincidence Theorist and doubled down on flaunting his idiocy for all to see. It takes a very committed idiot to attack a theory while in the same article he admits to knowing little about the very same subject. Fred Reed is unworthy of a place on this excellent site.

  26. BuelahMan says: • Website

    Uncle Fred,

    That was just sad.

    Hang em up. The ride is over.

  27. dearieme says:
    @fitzhamilton

    “How is it possible that they entered one of the most heavily defended air spaces in the world …”

    What makes you think it was “one of the most heavily defended air spaces in the world”? The Cold War was long over; the attempt to beat up a new cold war with Russia lay far in the future. The defences were very thin.

  28. For those interested in unofficial conspiracy theories and who enjoy great writing and analytical ability, I strongly recommend visiting http://centerforaninformedamerica.com.

  29. You’re going to lunch? No, you’re already out to lunch. You are totally clueless, Mr. Reed. Did you even read Ron Unz’s piece on 9/11? And you accept the official “lone gunman” explanation of the JFK assassination? Good grief. Write about other matters.

  30. So Fred believes the official conspiracy theory regarding 9/11 while acknowledging that intelligent people do not. Atta boy Fred!

  31. @Rabbitnexus

    I did wonder towards the end of this if Fred was simply sending up the attitude of so many that criticize CTs. The single thing that caused me to wonder this was his saying:

    For the non-CT, I once went to sea on a shakedown cruise aboard the Vincennes, a Tico-class AA cruiser with the SPY-1 phased-array radar, then hot stuff, and watched simulated firing from the CIC. There is no way to fire “accidentally,” as missiles are not armed and, if the skipper went Queeg-gaga and ordered firing at an airliner, no one would obey.

    That seemed to be pushing the bounds of coincidence.

  32. @dearieme

    Yes. That’s right. The defenses were in fact, proven very thin.

    I’ve heard that the F-15’s apparently were in fact scrambled, but were accidentally sent out to sea. Or something like that. By “bizarre coincidence” multiple NORAD exercises (google Vigilant Guardian, Global Guardian, Timely Alert II, Tripod) apparently were planned for the very day of the attacks, to prepare us for that Russian threat you say was then obsolete. This apparently muddied the waters, and had people confused as to whether the hijackings were “real world, or exercise.”

    https://digwithin.net/2016/07/04/never-forget/

    http://www.stj911.org/evidence/military.html

    We’re supposed to believe that the Air Force accidentally flew in circles, and that there are no other ground based anti-aircraft defenses in place to defend our capital, and all the other critical military infrastructure within its ambit.

    Sorry, that’s bullshit. Utter, complete, and idiotic bullshit.

    Remember Mathias Rust? He flew a Cessna onto Red Square from Finland in 1987. Straight through the Soviet air defenses, without being shot down. Hundreds of heads rolled in the Soviet military and government in the aftermath of that stunt. It was a critical blow to the reputation of the Soviet military, it contributed in a small way to the fall of the USSR a few years later.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust

    How many military or political heads rolled in the United “Sates” in the aftermath of 9/11? None. Not one. General Myers, the jackass in command of our air defenses **got promoted.** The Soviets sacked a third of their Air Defense command after Rust’s stunt, when no one had died. We lose 3,000 lives in the most embarrassing and disgraceful way possible, and no one in our military or intelligence communities paid the price.

    Why did the terrorists not hit the front of the building? Why didn’t they hit the Capitol or White House, much more symbolically significant targets?

    Why won’t the show us the footage?

    Until they do, they are guilty in my mind. They ought all be in prison, but instead are all still here gaslighting us.

    Just like you, Fred. Carry on, man. Carry on.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  33. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:
    @Biff

    I think he’s serious but I gave up reading after the 9/11 chapter. Dull clickbait is not my cup of tea.

    • Agree: Rabbitnexus
  34. It’s so easy to shred everything in this column. Let’s start:

    9-11

    This is the Conspiracy Theory par excellence. There are many variants. The mainstream holds that the Israelis destroyed the towers by controlled demolition to provide a pretext for the American attack on Iraq. (Then why does the “official story” blame it on the Saudis? It makes no sense. See?) The aircraft were presumably flown by Israeli suicide pilots.

    Back to back strawmen. 1. The CT that Isreal was behind 9-11 makes no sense becuase some other “official story” blames the Saudis. Fred missed his logic class. 2. Who presumed that the aircraft were flown by Israelis? I’ve never heard even one theory incorporating that, yet Fred presumes.

    Fred is an obvious idiot, just from those 2 strawmen alone, but he drones on and on and on flinging absurd strawmen. But we can stop right there. Next.

    JFK

    Never having paid much attention to the assassination of JFK, about which I know little, from curiosity I Googled “Grassy Knoll,” whence the alleged second sniper supposedly fired. “Hanh?” I thought on seeing a photo. “Am I missing something? This is nuts.”

    The knoll is self-evidently the last place in Dallas to put a sniper. (The best was the book repository.) A small island, with virtually no cover, surrounded on all sides by trafficked city streets and overlooked by windows in several buildings. How sensible.

    I’m nearly speechless at the utter stupidity of these opening paragraphs. 1. The defining event in United States History for a man of Fred’s age is the JFK assassination. Yet, he never paid much attention to it???? And 2., Fred sees one photo of the assassination site and decides a) that there is no cover on the knoll and b) the best place for a sniper is the Repository. Fred decrees these “facts” from a small photo taken who knows when?

    This is so absurd that I am inclined to believe some of the commenters who think Fred is joking. Whatever he is doing here, Fred is the joke. We don’t need to read any further in this section. Next.

    TWA 800

    The “official story” was that a fuel leak caused the explosion. CTs insist that the US Navy accidentally shot it down during a live -fire exercise.

    Which is absurd.

    They insist do they? Who insists, Fred? Why would you use that term. I ask because all the stuff I’ve ever read on this subject has some people concluding that is probably what happened (the Navy shot it down, either purposely or accidentally). No one’s insisting on a thing, you silly fool.

    And why exactly is it absurd, Fred? It is absurd to not believe the eyewitnesses who saw a missle hit the plane? Why would that be absurd, Freddy? Or what about the FBI agents who tried to tell said eyewitnesses that they didn’t see what they saw?

    And so, we don’t need to read any further on that section of Fred’s column.

    Nothing the Fred has written after each opening paragraph is worth a moment of anyone’s time.

    I’ve read embarassing screeds written by stupid dolts before, but this column is in the top 10 of the Illogical Thinking Olympics of all times. A total car wreck.

    Fred, they tell you to not drink the water down there in ole Me-ji-co. But you did, didn’t you? You must have contracted that brain-eating amoeba. I can see that bug has almost done it’s job.

  35. @restless94110

    On the issue of foreign interests that “might be behind,” or foreign interests who have indisputably clearly benefited from the aftermath of the attacks on 9/11, it has to be pointed out that Saudi Arabia and Israel have been de facto allies in many ways, with many convergent interests, for decades now.

    What is indisputable is that 17 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. The 9/11 Report itself admits that the funding for the attacks came from Saudi Arabia. Pakistan – another putative US ally – also had a role in funding the attack, and supporting the terrorists in their preparation. See Pakistani intelligence – ISS’s – support of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, with CIA assistance.

    Our allies, the Saudis and Pakistanis, were the nexus of support for the terrorists.

    In the aftermath our government destroyed the secular Arab nationalist fascist Iraqi regime, which after Iran was the greatest military threat to both Saudi Arabia and Israel.

    Notice that Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks. We destroyed one of the greatest enemies of the people who perpetrated them.

    Now – in the aftermath of the destabilization of the region caused by our destruction of Iraq – we are bent on destroying the Arab nationalist fascist Assad regime in Syria, which is likewise a threat to Saudi Arabia and Israel. Syria is also one of Iran’s strongest allies, along with Russia (see a pattern developing here?), and the most important backer of the Lebanesee Shiite Hezb’Allah. The Lebanese Shiites are Israel’s strongest immediate threat.

    The Palestinians are a volatile, destabilizing threat to every Arab government in the region, to greater or lesser degree, and the Arab establishment therefore hypocritically pays lip service to the Palestinian cause, while generally giving them the shiv in the back. The Saudi establishment – those 10,000 princes – are deathly afraid of their potentially Islamist radical underclass, and are playing a double game, supporting the Islamist movements (Hamas, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood) to a degree, while also simultaneously seeking to direct the rage of the radicals towards outside “Kaffir” enemies in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Chechnya, Kosovo, Gaza and the West Bank.

    The day the oil runs out and Western support for the Saudis and Gulf Emirates evaporates is the day that the Iranians cross the Gulf and annihilate the Saudis. Everyone knows this, and the Israelis are going to play that conflict off against the middle as well as they are able. They would ideally like to see the Iranians smashed before it happens, because the Saudis are pussies, and no substantial threat to them.

    Breaking Iraq and Syria into warring tribal factions serves both Israeli and Saudi interests. Iraq being fractured is good for them, the fact that the Shiite majority there naturally aligns with Iran is a bug, but again the goal is to smash Iran itself, and keep the Arab and Persian Shiites from winning.

    Without the power of the United “Sates” in the mix, the Saudis and Israelis might be in big trouble. With us as their genie in a bottle, their attack dog on a leash, Iran and the Arab Shiites are probably screwed.

    Russia, other European countries, Turkey, and even China are all “x’ factors here. But the overall point is that the U.S. is seen as a trump card.

    That’s why Israeli and Saudi interests converge, and why they converged on 9/11.

    We should have flattened Riyadh and had marines gnoshing ham and cheese sandwiches and chugging beer on top of the Kaaba 18 years ago. Instead we took out those nasty Salafists’ enemies for them. We took out the “innocent” Iraqi Arab nationalists instead.

    God Bless America. Messing things up from the Halls of Montezuma, the Cesspools of Maracaibo, to the Shores of Every Islamist Hellhole we can suck petrol from.

  36. @Ronnie

    Perhaps Fred doesn’t think that there’s such a thing as False Flags either.

  37. @fitzhamilton

    I should add that the Kabaa is the Saudi’s ultimate trump card. We can’t destroy and remove the Saudi regime, or properly colonize them, because having marines on top of the Kabaa would mean world war with Islam..

    Also, Paki intelligence is the ISI, not ISS.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  38. @fitzhamilton

    There is so much wrong with what you’ve written that I can’t ba arsed to respond, other than to ask you what the devil are you replying to me for?

    I offered now theory so you are profferring your own personal theory to me? For why?

    Save your breath.

    • Replies: @fitzhamilton
  39. @fitzhamilton

    The Saudis will collapse from within, not long now. I don’t know or care what Paki intelligence is called: it’s irrelevant to anything.

    By the way though: a Paki General said about 2 months after 9-11 that everyone knew it was a Mossad operation.

    I’ll take his word on that.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke
  40. @restless94110

    Sorry, man. Excuse my presumption. I’m mainly reacting to Fred’s seeming scorn of the idea that the Israelis and Saudis have no common interests, that the idea they both could “have been behind 9/11” is somehow absurd.

    I wrote out why I think that’s nonsense partly as an exercise clarifying my own thought, and as a overview that might benefit other people, because I think very few of us really do understand what’s really going on.

    What I said is a synopsis of what I think. It could be fleshed out, to explicate where the American/Western elite’s interests also generally converge with the Saudi/Israeli/Gulf Emirate/Egyptian/etc. elites’ interests.

    Out of genuine curiosity, why – and where – do you think that I am wrong? Is anything I wrote untrue?

    • Replies: @restless94110
  41. Rich says:

    Fred writes about crack reporters who always follow through on the tough stories, I’m wondering where those crack reporters were during the Gulf of Tonkin incident or the attack on the USS Liberty. Seems to me they haven’t been doing any crack reporting for a long time.

  42. Regarding the strawman idea, what if the strawman was a Deep State creation? What if the CIA invented the controlled demolition theory to draw attention away from the money trail and the high level covert protection of the highjachers?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  43. @fitzhamilton

    I think you are murking up the waters.

    There may be alliances between Isreal and Saudi Arabia, but you and I will never know what they exactly are.

    I see your posts are overly complicated.

    As Ron Unz himself has said, it’s become abundantly clear that the Mossad has been behind and/or key in several major upsets in recent American history.

    The Saudis seem to me to be bunglers. The are top heavy, incestuous and inept.

    Finally there are serious questions on the role of any Saudis in the planes that attacked America on 9-11. The footages of them entering the airports are non-existant; some of them apparently were mis-identified and were alive.

    I see the 29-page hidden part of the final report as a red herring to distract from the true culprit.

    In short, the Saudis were too stupid to have managed this. The Zionists were smart, crafty and treacherous as has been proved in act after act that no one questions. Why would anyone not think that there are more of those same things they’ve been doing for 70 years that have not yet come into the light?

    Simple, mate. Keep it simple.

  44. Mulegino1 says:

    Regarding 9/11- there are two overarching theories as to its origin and cause:

    One involves a cast of incredible characters, a ridiculous conspiracy, and a total abeyance of the laws of physics, aviation, construction engineering, forensics, firefighting engineering, architecture and ballistics, inter alia.

    The other involves some type of controlled demolition.

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  45. @fitzhamilton

    What is indisputable is that 17 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.

    It certainly is NOT indisputable! 17 of the PURPORTED 19 highjackers. I could go on…

    Suggestion: Read more, write less. You’re welcome.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  46. @republic

    Do you take seriously only people with no blind spots? If yes, have you stumbled upon any?

    • Replies: @republic
  47. @follyofwar

    Fred lies. The official story on flight 800 was that a spark in a cable that passed through the fuel tank caused the explosion. Sorry for the unreliable source:

    http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/08/23/twa.hearing.03/index.html

    ” The most likely ignition source, they said, was a possible electrical short circuit between the low-voltage wire used by the fuel gauges and high-voltage wires used in other airplane systems. ”

    The problem with this theory is what didn’t happen: No Boeing 747’s were grounded while the cable issue was investigated despite the alleged risk of them falling from the skies like rice at a Chinese wedding.

    12 years later they decided that having cable running through planes should be phased out and existing planes retrofitted just in time for the 21 st anniversary of TWA 800 flight’s destruction.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/news/money/unveils-new-fuel-tank-rule-day-anniversary-twa-flight-800-crash-article-1.351888

    And that was the result of a long campaign by the father of one of the victims.

    The words full of shit spring to mind.

    • Replies: @turtle
  48. Taras77 says:
    @republic

    Impossible to take reed seriously on any serious topic, particularly the CT’s. I see what you mean in the previous article.

    He has done nothing to debunk any of the CT’s, thus inviting the reader to take the official narrative as the truth. Seriously!

    But this article is reaching new lows, whatever too many pina coladas, too old and senile, he is under serious threat from assassination, (sic).

    Despair reigns heavy!

  49. @dearieme

    The defences were very thin.

    In the words of the great John McEnroe:

    Here’s a list of Air Force fighter squadrons that were operational at the time, within rapid response distance of the airports, and the main fighters used by each squadron at the time (the 27th, 94th and 149th have changed to F22s since).

    [MORE]

    Langley (flight time to
    • 27th (F15)
    • 94th (F15)
    • 71st (F15)
    • 48th (F15)

    Nearby:
    • 119th (F16) – NJ ANG
    • 121st (F16) – DC ANG (2 F16s from this squadron were scrambled to intercept Flight 93, but Flt93 crashed before intercept… however the F16s only had nose cannon)
    • 149th (F16) – VA ANG

    Nearby, but wrong planes for the job:
    • 96th (F-94) – DE
    • 97th (F-94) – DE
    • 103rd (A10) – PA ANG
    • 104th (A10) – MD ANG

    The ‘failure’ of air defences on “Foreign policy Blowback Day” had little to do with the amount of firepower available: the problem was the very short elapsed time between when the planes were known to be hijacked, and when they crashed into stuff. (Except for Flight 77; the timeline requires a “magic radar hole” covering most of West Virginia).

    Now… taking each one in order –

    Flight 11

    • takeoff at 7:59am from Logan;
    • hijacked ~15 minutes after (takeoff from Boston);
    • ~4 minutes later the hijacker turned off the transponder and the plane deviated from its planned route;
    • ~2minutes after that, inboard announcements were inadvertently transmitted to traffic control by the hijacker.

    So it’s 8:24 AM and traffic control knows with certainty that an aircraft has been hijacked – but that’s all they know. They know nothing whatsoever of the hijackers’ intentions.

    The plane hit WTC1 at 8:46am – just 22 minutes after it was known-hijacked, and with (perhaps) some fuzzy idea of the hijackers’ intended destination (i.e., traffic controllers knew it was headed for NYC, but not the WTC specifically).

    It would have been possible to get a fighter to interceptf the plane, but the decision to shoot down a civilian aircraft in US airspace is a fraught one (or it was at the time).

    Hijackings up to that point were mostly of the “Take me to Cooba” variety, not “let’s crash this motherfucker into a building, y’all” variety. Shooting it down would have been a very last option – made more difficult by the fact that for the last ~50 miles a shootdown risked raining big lumps of busted plane over densely-populated areas (when the hijackers may have intended to land it and negotiate).

    So on that basis, it is entirely plausible that WTC1 was hit by a plane despite everyone doing their job to the very best of their ability.

    Flight 175

    • took off at 8:14 from Logan – the same airport as Flight 11
    • hijacked ~30- minutes after takeoff (8:42-8:46) – literally just as Flight 11 hit WTC1 and the world lost its shit
    • changed course at 8:51 (at which point everyone was still aghast at what happened at WTC1);
    • at ~8:55 it commenced a 5-minute “power dive” (roughly 5000 ft/min)
    • at 9:01 it hit the other tower

    Again, the ET between “known-hijacked” and hitting a building was ~25 minutes; it’s only for the last 15 of those minutes that anybody would guess that the intention was to crash it into a building.

    That makes it plausible that – again – everyone was doing their job properly; the timeline still did not permit the level of certainty required to justify a decision to dispatch a fighter to intercept F175 and shoot it down over a (relatively) less-populated area.

    Flight 77

    • took off at 8:20 from Dulles (just minutes before controllers definitely know that flight 11 has been hijacked)
    • hijacked ~30 minutes in (i.e., very highly synchronised with flight 175)
    • at ~8:54 it changed course
    • for the next 40 minutes it flew towards DC at relatively low altitude;
    • at 9:37 – almost 45 minutes after it changed course – it hit the Pentagon

    And this is where shit gets pretty whack – and also where the official narrative is difficult to believe.

    After flight 175 hit WTC2 at 9:01am, the entire C&C mechanism of the US must have known that this plane was not going to be landing at an airport… HOWEVER (according to the official story) because of the poor radar coverage of the area, the plane was basically invisible for almost half an hour after 9:03 (it later became known that people on the plane called the ground during this time).

    For a good while after 9:00 a.m., everyone was (supposedly) operating on the assumption that the plane had crashed at 9:09 a.m.- probably in the Monongahela National Forest. Why did they think this? Again, supposedly because of the lack of radar coverage in the region (at least, a lack of coverage at the low altitudes at which the plane was being flown).

    Flight 93

    This is a weird one;

    • takeoff was at 8:42a.m. from Newark NJ – it was known by that time that 2 aircraft had been hijacked, but it was a couple of minutes before Flight 77 hit WTC1
    • takeoff was over 40 minutes late (originally scheduled for 8:00 a.m.)
    • hijacking happened at ~9:28 (45 minutes into the flight) – by which time all aircraft were aware of the WTC1 and WTC2 impacts
    • voice recordings reveal that the hijackers told the passengers that they “had their demands” and were “going back to the airport” (this is potentially interesting; it’s the sort of thing you might say to the passengers, whether it was true or not).
    • the flight ploughed into a field at about 10:03 – 35 minutes after the hijacking, but before 2 unarmed F16s from DC Air National Guard’s 121st Squadron were able to intercept.

    Note that it’s ~135 miles as the F16 flies from Andrews AFB to Shanksville; that’s ~6 minutes at top speed (so allowing 15 minutes from wheels up seems plenty). However the 9/11 Commission claimed that NORAD did not know about the hijacking of Flight 93 until after it had crashed, so the scramble order might just be normal hagiographic bullshit.

    So it’s very easy to understand why people think it’s all a bit stinky.

    One thing that is known with absolute certainty is that Osama bin Laden played no role whatsoever in the events.

    He said so on September 12th 2001, and condemned the acts because they targeted civilians. It was reported on CNN on September 17 2001.. On September 28 2001 he gave an interview to a Pakistani newspaper (Ummat) in which he said –

    I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.

    (I hold no brief for the guy – I do not like religious whackballs of any stripe. However what he said about targeting civilians being haram, is true. Targeting civilians is a very “Old Testament” way of going about things – just sayin’.).

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Anon
  50. sszorin says:

    Mr. Reed, what about the giant conspiracy theory that the Germans conspired to gas to death millions of Jews in a tiny room in Auschwitz ?

    • LOL: Tusk
  51. @Kratoklastes

    Pssssst…. Don’t mention the drills like Vigilant Warrior, just to name one.

  52. Anonymous[403] • Disclaimer says:

  53. Where’s Revusky when you need him, lol.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  54. The Scalpel says: • Website

    Fred’s logic (Wernicke Korsakoff Encephalopathy)

    “I find several of the competing theories to be unlikely, therefore they are all wrong and the “official” theory is the correct one. ”

    My logic (scientific)

    If the “official” theory requires violations of the laws of physics or other self-contradictory factors, then there is something wrong with the “official” theory and I should attempt to prove an alternate hypothesis or at least investigate the most likely alternate theories.

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  55. Get Mr. Reed a tin foil hat. At least he didn’t invoke the flat earth smear.
    Mr. Reed would probably be surprised to know he is in the minority on the CT issue.
    9/11: The day the laws of physics went out the window.

    9/11 Architects and engineers have throughly proven the official conspiracy theory to be bogus. Who knows what kind of demolition technology our govt. has that we don’t know about and probably never will. WTC7 could not have fallen like it did without the use of explosives to take out all of the supporting columns at virtually the same time. Not possible.

    Watch the videos of WTC 1&2 “collapsing”. You can see the explosives going off 20 stories below the collapsing debris. Not to mention the fact that the top portion of the building “collapsing” could never squash the entire building below. Doesn’t work that way.

    Mr. Reed obviously is on the govt. payroll. Nobody is buying this nonsense anymore.

    Go to 1m 50sec in this video and watch the explosives blow the building out. You can see it trailing down the side of the building 20 stories or so below the “collapsing” debris. The explosives were probably going off from inside the service elevator shafts. Its easy to see.
    Building 7 is the smoking gun though IMO.

    Go and watch 9/11 A&E videos Mr. Reed

    • Agree: Agent76
    • Replies: @Spiritof42
  56. Erebus says:

    Over the years I’ve often found Fred’s cynically off-beat observations humorous, and sometimes insightful. Both features have been declining at an accelerating rate in recent years.

    On seeing the title, I thought that Fred might be trying to redeem his previous effort. As it is, this lazy, listless article couldn’t have less of either humour or insight.

  57. If you know wherefrom the term originates, you will understand likewise the essay’s origins.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke
  58. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @The Scalpel

    Here’s a conspiracy theory: Fred and Ron Unz are in cahoots on this. Fred doesn’t really care about these things one way or another, but these crappy articles are easy to write. Ron likes them because Fred sure knows how to generate comments and attention. Fred stirs the pot and then laughs at everyone getting all riled up while he is sipping tequila lakeside. Ron’s web traffic goes up. Something like that.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  59. @atlantis_dweller

    JR can be found at heresycentral.com

  60. @The Scalpel

    I rather think that Fred is slugging back the tequila not sipping it based on this and some of his other articles. I’m also inclined to believe that, unlike Fred, Ron Unz values his name and wants it to be associated with a site that is much more than click-bait. Fred has done Ron Unz a disservice here.

  61. Reed’s screeds are now worse than useless. They have entered the realm of active disinformation. Curious…

    • Agree: Pat Kittle
  62. @fitzhamilton

    In addition, in those pre Homeland Security days, the airport security at the various US airports, was handled by various companies. It just so happens (or so I have read) that the airport security at all the airports from which the “hijacked” aircraft took off, was handled by the same Israeli-owned company which provided the cctv cameras around the Pentagon, which were, coincidentally, all undergoing maintenance that day. Curious? Nah! Coincidences happen!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  63. @fitzhamilton

    What is indisputable is that 17 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.

    Always assuming that there were any hijackers, that is.

  64. nik1975 says:

    okay… he convinced me there

    so, no references a bit of a problem… oh well

    oh hang on what about architects and engineers oh surely he mentions them as nutters… oh he forgot okay

    okay The Illuminati… easy ball to smash out of the park… oh hang on he forgot again …

    never mind he will talk about gulf of tomkin…

    oh he didnt… what about… oh hang on

    what a shit article

  65. @anonymous

    Reed grown too old and tired to debate any topics in good faith?

    I refer Unz posters to the comic strip Dilbert, Feb 25,2019 by Scott Adams regarding social media.

    Dogbert: Never give reasons for your opinions.
    Dogbert: That only gives your opponent fodder for proving you’re an idiot.
    Nerd: Then how can I win an argument?
    Dogbert: No one knows, it has never been done.

  66. This guy must have been hiding under a rock for the past 20 years. Believing everything the corporate media and the government tells him must be his religion, despite the evidence to the contrary. You are wasting your time reading this shit as he is obviously simply an establishment troll. I suppose he believes the Israeli’s are not trying to get rid of the Palestinians, and that the US-UK-Israeli axis did not recruit, train, deploy and pay ISIS terrorist for their nefarious work in Syria and now in other nations. That is just some conspiracy theory to be mocked. Lying people like this joker, who are actually collaborators with a great deal of evil and injustice taking place in the world, some day will get their due.

  67. renfro says:

    Oh well. I’m going to lunch.

    You’re already out to lunch.

  68. Huskynut says:

    Lol – give a lazy old scribe a forum, and he’ll promptly defile it!

  69. JimDandy says:

    I know, Fred, what will they claim next? That The Lavon Affair involved Israelis dressed up as Arabs fitting American buildings with explosives hoping that this act of false flag terror against would turn Americans against Egypt?

  70. There is an alternative template for all three of these events, that I have entertained for a long time. This is the idea that a government will suppress evidence of politically inconvenient facts about terrorism.

    Thus, JFK was shot by a Russian agent, TWA 800 was brought down by an Al Qaeda bomb, and Iraq was the state sponsor of 9/11, and the important people in the intelligence services either knew or strongly suspected that this was so; but it was decided that in public, the line would be ‘Oswald acted alone’, ‘TWA 800 was an accident’, ‘Iraqi sponsorship of Al Qaeda is a hypothetical possibility that needs to be preempted’.

    I am not at all asserting that this is what happened. It is a headache to try to figure out what actually happened, or to assign probabilities to all the things that might have happened. But I think one needs to grasp this kind of possibility, to really fathom what may be going on in the murky world of terrorism and counterterrorism.

  71. Charles says:

    As regards JFK – there was no “magic bullet”. Gov Connally was sitting to the right of, and several inches lower than, JFK. He was not directly in front of and on the same level as the President. He wasn’t. The first of two bullets which struck JFK passed through his neck and into Connally – on the line which it would be if it were fired from several stories in the air and roughly a “5 o’clock” position. In other words its origin, just like the second successful shot (third-fired; the first of three missed), was from where Oswald was in the book depository. Getting your history from Hollywood, regardless of its politics, is even worse than credulously accepting mass media or government explanations

    • LOL: NoseytheDuke
    • Replies: @Anon
  72. Seraphim says:

    Strange that the author doesn’t whisper a word about the conspiracy we were entitled to believe he would talk about the… conspiracy of the Illuminati. A real conspiracy in the proper sense of the word: ‘a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful’, ‘the action of plotting or conspiring’.
    The real Illuminati were a secret society inside a secret society (Free Masonry) plotting the overthrow of the monarchies and reorganization of society along ‘rational’ lines. They have been behind the ‘Age of Revolutions’. Its existence has been amply documented and its exposers have been accused of DUM.

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @Fred Baggins
  73. Miro23 says:

    When the dialectics disagree with physics (9/11), it’s usually the physics that’s right. Buildings of this type don’t collapse due to (low temperature) jet fuel fires (mostly gone out).

    My Conspiracy Theory is that Fred wants to raise his comment count average, and plotted this article with his mates in Mexico.

  74. Wow.

    You know, Fred actually is capable of some insightful writing at times; but let’s just say this was not one of his more insightful pieces. I’m not going to say anything more for now–I’m just going to let it go at that.

  75. @Haxo Angmark

    Yeah, Fred-srawman-on-everything.

  76. @follyofwar

    Not knowing anything about construction, I’ve always been agnostic about how it [9/11] happened.

    You don’t need to know anything about construction to have a definitive opinion on 9/11. You still would have to be a moron to believe in any variation of the standard 9/11 CT.

  77. @Dieter Kief

    It is supposed to be the female form of (conspiracy) theorist, but actually that should be “theoristess”.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  78. Is Fred Reed now working for Cass Sunstein ? Google : Cass Sunstein cognitive infiltration.

  79. The scalpel says: • Website
    @NoseytheDuke

    I would like to coin an expression and say that Fred Reed gives what he calls “conspiracy theorists” the “Seghizzy Treatment”. [Further use of this expression must reference me as originator LOL]

    https://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/1836

  80. This article was written by an arrogant idiot.
    Reed cites every irrelevant extrapolation (many, in my view, created by establishment disinfo employees) and states that this is what CTs believe about 9/11.

    No they effing don’t.

    This is the sneering, careless perspective of a moron too lazy to think for himself.

    As a physics graduate I came to 9/11 by recognising that the collapse times of WTC7 (particularly) and then WTCs 1 & 2 are MOST DEFINITELY controlled demolitions. No Muslim terrorists could do that. That information is quite enough to prove the case.
    Apart from that there is a mountain of disinfo designed to disvredit those who say ‘inside job’ and a great deal deal of shocking and undeniable information dug up by honest researchers, most notably (in my view) Christopher Bollyn.

    The world is full of arrogant masturbators like Reed. Perhaps the preponderance of his type of lapdog in society makes us collectively deserve the horrors we get. Criminals cannot fail surrounded by such lolling dribblers.

    • Replies: @Delmas
  81. @follyofwar

    The world trade center was constructed using a central core (which included the elevators) as the structural support, and hanging floors off of that central core. To bring something like that down, you need only cut the central core structural members, which, I believe were engineering spaces (for building utilities) that would not have been open to the building’s tenants. “Det cord everywhere” isn’t needed.
    For what that’s worth.

    My opinion is that something clearly happened, but I don’t know quite what.

    Counterinsurgency

  82. Sean says:

    Fire in the Minds of Men: Origins of the Revolutionary Faith is a book about the spread of ideas written by James H. Billington, historian and Librarian of Congress.

    https://libcom.org/files/Fire%20in%20the%20Minds%20of%20Men.pdf
    It may be well to trace in some detail the nature and impact of this baffling movement, because its influence was far from negligible and has been as neglected in recent times as it was exaggerated in an earlier era. The Order of Illuminists was founded on May I, 1 776, by a professor of canon law at the University of Ingolstadt in Bavaria, Adam Weishaupt, and four associates. The order was secret and hierarchica;; Weishaupt did not so much invite intellectuals to join his new pedagogic elite as taunt them to do so. He radiated contempt for men of the Enlightenment who “go into ecstacies over antiquity, but are themselves unable to do anything,” and insisted that “what is missing is the force to put into practice what has long been affirmed by our minds.” 44 That force was to come from an altogether new type of secret society, which would have “much more the characteristics of a militia in action than an order with initiations.”

    Herder and Goethe are known to have been among its members. Fichte was merely associated with the same social circle. Organizationally it had had a very modern cell type structure where people did not know others on the same level,

  83. Tsigantes says:

    Fred Reed displays the contemptible arrogance of the wilfully blind American super patriot, willing to believe all the conspiracy theories put forward by his government because his government is of course perfect. And since his govt’s claims and assertions are backed 100% by the entire bandwidth of the intrepid US msm (“research”) there is obviously no need to look further.

    I wonder why he lives in Mexico.

    Moving beyond the immediate American context, no doubt he believes that NATO’s war on Syria was an internal civil war (his govt says so) and that the regime change in Ukraine was a genuine internal affair (his govt says so). No doubt he believes that Ghaddafi was a psychotic psychopath, that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction aimed at Europe, that Milosevic was genociding Yugoslavs, that ISIS is genuine Muslim movement who Americans fought bravely to destroy (and won!). Furthermore that his govt had nothing to do with Turkey’s invasion of Cyprus, nor has ever interfered in Greece and has only ever been a munificent benefactor in Latin America. That WW2 could only be brought to an end by atom-bombing Japan and that the Korean war was a necessity. The probability is high that he donated to the White Helmets.
    For sure he has never heard of GLADIO because not only his government never mentioned it but neither has the American mainstream media- the only news source Mr. Reed trusts.

    Fred Reed is absolutely certain of these things. Because he was once a reporter. Research for him means consulting the full panoply of trustworthy sources : foremost the US Gov and secondly the “vigilant” American MSM, ie from WaPo to WSJ to LA Times to NYT….”all the news that is fit to print”.

    It matters not to Fred Reed that every single item above (a random selection, there are plenty more) has been proved a lie by international and American courts, by the UN (phooey!) and by political and military testimony. All that matters is that his govt NEVER SAID SO, ergo to think otherwise is to fall into…. Twang!… “conspiracy”.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  84. Conspiracy = by definition — a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

    Unfortunately, “conspiracy” like “hate”, “diversity”, “racism” and “anti-Semitism” has been kidnapped by the left, completely politicized and twisted out of its original meaning. Many, if not most non-petty crimes are probably the outcome of conspiracies according to the long standing definition of the term. Big-time crimes require (usually) more than one person, secrecy and planning, i.e. a conspiracy.

    A “conspriacy theory”, current usage, means “you are a right-wing nut and I’m not going to listen anything you say.” Like, the current use of “hate” and “racist”, calling someone a conspiracy theorist is a way to shut him up and refuse to consider his arguments.

    With this piece, Fred’s normally good sense, wit and intelligence seem to have deserted him.

  85. bigjim says:

    Fred Reed really doesn’t get it. He’s now part of the problem. 9/11 for example was pulled off by elements within the US/Britain/Israel. This event was planned far in advance which is why they were able to plant the explosives in the buildings. Frankly I trust the analysis done by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth more than I do some senile nitwit living in Mexico who apparently has given up on thinking and emotes for a living. Hey Fred, how do you strike the Pentagon with an airplane, the most heavily defended air space in the country and one that has its own defenses, without being shot down? Why did Norman Mineta testify that Dick Cheney order that nothing be done about the plane that was approaching the Pentagon after the attack on New York? Why did that third skyscraper in NY fall into its own footprint at freefall speed when it was never hit by a plane? Did it fall out of sympathy for the other two buildings. Reed is a fool who apparently has nothing better to do than disparage this country and everyone in it. Stay in Mexico Reed. You’ve sunk to their level of IQ and belong there.

  86. onebornfree says: • Website

    9/11 Truth in 5 Minutes- James Corbett:

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  87. Franz says:

    Oh well. I’m going to lunch.

    No need, Frederick.

    You were out to lunch the whole length of the article.

    You got to be kidding me with this naïve 12-year-old schoolgirl rebuttal of things; you clearly have never even scratched the surface of the “official narrative” versus the many eminent rebuttals. For Zeus’ sake they had to call a Select Committee on assassinations in the 70s to plug up the holes in the Warren Commissions flat out lies and contradictions. They didn’t call it the “Warren Omission” for nothing.

    Lay off the beer and leg a few nights and read up a few sites. Stick to the simple stuff first. You’ll be surprised at how fast the official stories start to crumble even under mild scrutiny.

    That’s assuming you really are curious. Being in a bubble is comforting, stretch a bit.

  88. @follyofwar

    I’m a retired structural Ironworker and I can assure you it was controlled demolition that brought the twin towers down. Check out building #7 on youtube. No plane hit it and it came down the same as the towers. Fred Reed is an ex-Marine like me but he knows that if he made too many waves about this, he would be in for some hard times and he doesn’t want that at this stage of his life.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @follyofwar
  89. I’ve read good articles by Fred Reed. This is not one of them.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  90. Anonymous[295] • Disclaimer says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    So Building 7 was hit by an invisible airplane? Intriguing …

  91. ariadna says:

    As a satire Mr Reed’s piece fails badly. Implied sarcasm is unborn sarcasm. Sharpen your wit, Mr Reed, or you end up being either boring or confusing the readers, unless that is what you perversely intended here.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  92. RobertoEU says:

    It is with a lot of fear that I compare the way by which you debunked popular feelings about technological achivements of China and the way in which you avoid to speak of the initial acceleration of the thirth building of 9/11.

  93. Sean says:

    I don’t think conspiracy theorists are deluded, because they don’t take it at all seriously and know they are in no real danger, as they would be if the conspiracies they claim were real. Mark Lane, for example, did not seem to think he was signing his own death warrant (0r what is even worse letting himself in for an IRS audit).

    Nothing bad happened to Mark Lane, until he met someone who took his CIA-are-out-to-getcha theories seriously: Jimmy Jones. When Lane found himself present at an attempt to cut the throat of Congressman Ryan he realised the difference between conspiracy mongering and stoking paranoia.

    The appeal of conspiracy theories is strong. They seem to provide the believer a sense of esoteric understanding, of elevation above the limited grasp of moiling herd. They may make life less boring. Yet to many people, including me, they seem borderline delusional. How come?

    Perhaps the whole point of conspiracy theories is to seem deluded in order to isolate oneself from the mass of normal people. Some folk are happiest when by themselves. And from the point of group selection maybe it better to have crazy people isolate themselves, so there might be an altruistic ‘ ‘I am just going outside (sanity) and may be some time’ aspect to conspiracy theorising.

    Depresssion and reclusiveness are common side effects of immune system activation (see here). Paranoia also appears. In other words, when one is ill one will start to develop theories to justify isolating oneself from the world. It is well established that symptoms of chronic inflammation such as psoriasis are common among schizophrenia spectrum sufferers. It may be that self isolation of the tinfoil hat brigade functions to prevent the spread of infectious disease. Those young people look too healthy for their headgear though; obese and unkempt would be better. And there definable should not be a group of them. Conspiracy theorising is solitaire, not bridge.

    https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-7.html Oswald was profoundly alienated from the world in which he lived. .. He had very few, if any, close relationships with other people… He was never satisfied with anything. When he was in the United States he resented the capitalist system. .. When he was in the Soviet Union, he apparently resented the Communist Party members, who were accorded special privileges … and he spoke well of the United States.2 He accused his wife of preferring others to himself and told her to return to the Soviet Union without him …. Marina Oswald thought that he would not be happy anywhere, “Only on the moon, perhaps.” Mrs. Evelyn D Siegel reported that Lee “confided that the worse thing about Youth House was the fact that he had to be with other boys all the time, was disturbed about disrobing in front of them, taking showers with them etc.”

    Oswald was a fatherless moody undersized Texan loner who spent time in an orphanage, liked hunting, and joined up at 17. Audie Murphy was all those things too. By the way Murphy was suffering from malaria during much of his time in combat during WW2, and like many of his followers Jimmy Jones was quite ill from a stomach bug by the time he ordered the massacre.

  94. Miggle says:

    Being a Conspiracy Theorist I’ve just come up with two new theories. It’s like putting 2 and 2 together and hatching the theory that that makes 4.

    The first relates to MH17 going up in a puff of smoke over Ukraine. Recent news is that the Dutch ambassador to Venezuela became a criminal to serve America’s interests, being one of the criminals who clung to Greedó at the airport to obstruct law enforcement and personally experience his arrest on returning to Venezuela.

    If the Netherlands is prepared to commit crimes in America’s interests, why wouldn’t they be prepared to kill a couple of hundred of their own citizens to serve America’s interests? If they weren’t, why was their investigation such a sham? So my theory is that the Dutch government together with the Ukrainians planned the MH17 downing. To serve America’s interests.

    I might already have raved here on both these topics, but here comes the second, brought to mind by the recent real military conflict between India and Pakistan. There have been many such or equivalent incidents over the years, an endless, never-to-be-allowed-to-end conflict. The reason for it is silly, it is pointless, yet it will never be allowed to end. Why? Who is/are really behind that?

    India can be blamed for hanging onto Kashmir when its population was Muslim. Pakistan is being blamed for Muslim terrorists when it is hugely improbable that the Pakistani government sent them. What is really behind it all? The Pakistani Army seems a state-within-a-state, not there to serve the government, autonomous. Who are really telling it what to do? What invisible forces are hiding behind it?

    Then there are rumours (just what a conspiracy theorist needs!) that some small Israeli contingents have been involved on one or both sides of the India-Pakistan conflict, while Indian PM Modi is a Hindu fanatic who, amazingly, cuddles up to Netanyahu. Is there an explanation somewhere there?

    But why does Pakistan even exist? Why was a religious state with a capital named Islamabad created in 1947? Ah! It was created by a man the Pakistanis regard as a hero, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

    There’s a small problem here. Jinnah was an Indian, but tore India apart. And there’s a larger problem. Jinnah was not the kind of fanatic you would expect to create a religious state. Very much to the contrary. Jinnah was sophisticated, highly educated, cosmopolitan, had spent years living in England studying English law, was a successful London barrister. How is it that the religious state of Pakistan was created, not by a Muslim fanatic, but by such a one as him?

    Well, it is said (rumoured!) that an extraordinarily high proportion of London lawyers, or London barristers, were Jews. This may be related to another circumstance, that Judaism is legalistic. So, if Jinnah in London socialized with his professional colleagues, he socialized with Jews.

    There was plotting afoot just then, in 1947, to create another religious state. It is quite likely that Jinnah’s friends, without mentioning that plotting, made it clear to him that they all agreed on the need for him to create a Muslim religious state.

    They, too, were sophisticated London barristers. They wouldn’t have danced around him singing “Islamabad! Islamabad!” But if everyone in his social world in London was agreed that it would be professional of him to create a religious state, that would have had a huge impact on him.

    So there is my second new conspiracy theory. Pakistan was created by the Jews.

  95. alexander says:
    @Seraphim

    That is interesting.

    Is there any more light you can shed on the “illuminati”? I am curious to learn what is known about them factually.

  96. onebornfree says: • Website

    Sean says: “Oswald was a fatherless moody undersized Texan loner who spent time in an orphanage, liked hunting, and joined up at 17.”

    Meet Lee Harvey Oswald, Sheep-Dipped Patsy:

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Sean
  97. Bottom line, Mark Twain said it best: It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

    So let the masses continue on with their head in the sand, but they should realize when they assume that position, out of laziness or simply not caring, they are on their knees with their ass in the air. Not a good place to be in my opinion.

  98. @NoseytheDuke

    At least four of the alleged hijackers were outed by the BBC as still strolling around post September 12th.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

  99. @Patricus

    You really shouldn’t display that level of ignorance, it’s really quite embarrassing.

  100. @onebornfree

    My favorite 9/11 video. Thank’s for posting.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  101. pegleg says:

    Well Fred Reed must believe in some conspiracies.Why else is he living in Mexico?
    He could be in the Ozarks if he wanted privacy.
    Maybe he is afraid of the NWO conspiracy right Fred?

  102. I was going to post this, but I see that at least three others beat me to it.

    Oh well. I’m going to lunch.

    Oh well, you don’t have far to go; yer already there.

    PS: Don’t look now Fwed, but all the “Orificial ‘Splanations” are kunspirasee theeries. And guess what? Conspiracies happen.

  103. Mr. Hack says:

    I say, isn’t it bout time to resurrect Gustavo Arellano? If you want to really spice up this blog space, why not get the genuine ‘Mexican-American’s’ slant on things? Ron, make him ‘an offer he can’t refuse’.

  104. @Quintus Sertorius

    I’ve read good articles by Fred Reed. This is not one of them.

    I only read enough to agree. Fwed has long ago passed his peak. Sad to see.

    • Agree: republic
  105. Fred must be right about 911 having been performed by some Saudi s….

    Just a bunch of bored kids who have the money for a beginners flight instruction and after a couple of lessons are able to fly airliners right on those towers…. Losing their pass ports while crashing.

    They never will have expected they would blow up they entire buildings with a tube of aluminium.. at best breaking a window.

    The choosen ones reporters dancing hilariously, being there just by coincidence, or God send.

    It makes perfect sense that after 911 there were invasions in the entire Middle East , except Saudi Arabia…

    Fred is the most intelligent among the intelligent … He has been pilot, engineer, demolition expert etc.. Thats why he knows the rest are just intelligent crap thinkers

    meh.. but never mind, I skip my lunch

  106. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:

    Like many I operated on the assumption conspiracy theories were wrong because we lived in an open society and so secrets could not be kept.
    I failed to understand a few things

    human nature is not as rational as I thought herd instinct is strong and all sorts of other traits are easily pwnd by those that understand some basics

    Our elites are not as randomly selected as i had imagined all sorts of loyalty test they must pass from preschool on make that birth

    this needs to be understood to mean those who control academia media art NGOs govt and money among others have similar interests or interest that can be traded for favors for ones own interests

    I did not understand how profoundly the wasps had been defeated or compromised

    i did not understand how many conspiracy theories were not theories but well documented facts revealing that indeed my govt etc does indeed do really evil deeds does get caught sometimes and yet still manages to keep super well informed people like myself uninformed of this fact for most of their lives begging the question what else was not caught

    I failed to understand that certain narratives i was told to believe were not true, for instance i always thought there were two parties with diametrically opposed points of view and they would keep each other honest also two press corps two academia two economic camps etc this is not at all true its a good cop bad cop routine to keep true conservatives and true liberals in perpetual hope and away from torches and pitchforks

    i was led to believe all sorts of other fictions which i thought if true. for instance race and gender equality Ok I never really believed this but i didn’t understand the depth of the differences the pertinent facts the stats, In fact all americans were kept in the dark about how many non whites were moving in until hundred million had come only then did they start to show up outside cities where city people were used to non whites and had a harder time judging the flow.

    I was led to believe the press was at heart trying to be objective that scientists were objective that the religious leaders were pious and orthodox the list is endless.

    when you adjust for the above and you look at whats actually happening its hard to conclude theirs not massive conspiracies going on. For instance just immigration of non whites we knew by the early sixties how utterly useless and problematic brown/black people were to any white run civilization and yet the smartest most powerful wealthiest elites moved heaven and earth to import hundreds of millions of them to western nations please explain that without a conspiracy theory its cost not simply hundreds of trillions in debt and quadrillions in credit default swaps and the lost opportunity of moving mars into near earth orbit and terraforming it and why ????????? they dont really work cheaper for every $15 hr worker we are giving five family members $36,000k a year in free shit same with the foreign aid they use it to breed 60 IQ zulus like rabbits who are swarming the west along with 80IQ amerindians jungle asians and arabs, meanwhile we Gave communist china our industrial technology and infrastructure without a conspiracy theory we can only conclude a virus has infected generations of elites and made them insane yet appear to be functional .
    We also financed the communist USSR even during decades of cold and hot wars with them we transferred trillions in technology and industrial might to them – but thats supposed to be a conspiracy theory except its documented fact you can go to russia today and see the american made machines that are capable to make the ball bearings they needed to make the ballistic missiles to aim at us for the cold war explain that

    • Replies: @MaryLS
  107. @Mulegino1

    And those two competing overarching theories as to origin and cause extend to those abuses heaped upon the populace which we are instructed to receive as gifts. Two examples: the imposition upon the nation of prenatal infanticide and sodomy as marriage.
    The exoteric explanation for these holds that the populace awoke one day to realize that respect for privacy and women was predicated upon the ability to murder a child in utero, and awoke a day later to realize that, like the unborn child, maleness and femaleness were another source of indefensible bondage.

    The esoteric explanation involves a controlled, demographic demolition.

    But, as Fred Reed doubtless has come to appreciate, it’s hard to understand something when your livelihood and social status depend upon not understanding it.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    , @republic
  108. zuchev says:
    @anonymous

    This is an amazing piece of work, in the amazingly bad sense. He simply lacks the expertise to analyze the September 11th event or JFK. He seems to believe he can make a few breezy observations, say “Really, seriously?” and then be done with it. He invents straw-men re 9/11 …any criminal investigation would be itself corrupt? It was in fact a great victory recently when the lower Manhattan district attorney agreed to impanel a grand just to hear evidence. Fingers crossed that works out. Meanwhile this guy can take a hike.

    • Replies: @Fred Baggins
  109. Rurik says:

    There are common threads. Believers in one theory usually believe in several. Choose from JFK, RFK, black helicopters, Nine Eleven, various plane crashes…

    sinking of the Maine, Gulf of Tonkin, USS Liberty, Saddam’s WMD, Assad’s chemical attacks, ‘Putin shot down the plane’..

    ‘what difference, at this point, does it make?’

    if the ZUS government tells lies to start contrived wars of aggression?!

    Who the hell cares whether or not it was Saudis or Israelis who murdered 3000 Americans or ‘pulled’ building seven?!

    The damn building is gone regardless, and only a tinfoil-hat wearing loser would worry about who killed who.

    The main thing to remember is that the whorenalists who shill the official script are the ones that get to remain in ‘respectable’ company!

    Do you people want Fredo to stop getting invitations inside the DC cocktail circuit when he slithers into town?!

    Do you want him to get the Joe Sobran treatment?!

    Sobran died in obscurity a broken man, for telling the truth. Is that what all you people want for poor Fredo?!

    Perhaps this is Fredo’s Walter Duranty Pulitzer moment. When using your pen to shill lies for the PTB, you expect a reward of some kind.

    Does anyone believe that Fredo even believes the horse shit he’s vomiting out?

    ‘Our government and media would never lie!’

    Huh Fredo?

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
    , @gsjackson
  110. gilligan says:

    How incredible that one of the highjacker’s passports miraculously fluttered to the ground in all that pulverised concrete.Nope, nothing to see here, move along.
    How strange that WTC7 collapses into its footprint, conveniently with the Enron files. A miracle.
    Then, of course the wars of terror that followed the news there were WMD in Iraq which the good ole US of A found of course, bringing democracy to all and great MIC profit, have a nice day!

  111. Nick says:

    Every good conspiracy theory has one core question that can’t be answered: the magic bullet for JFK, Building 7 in 9/11, the 200 eye-witnesses on Long Island who saw the (non-Navy) missile hit TWA 800. If Fred had added other valid conspiracies, there would have been corresponding core questions.

    Fred’s “intelligent friends” are probably indignant that these core questions are casually dismissed. They conclude that if you can’t address the obvious, there might be something else at work. Eliminate the possible, and the probable…etc.

    Finally I note that Fred didn’t include Evolution/Design, for which he frequently has many core questions, in his list of conspiracy theories.

  112. Wow, not worth the effort. Seriously disappointing from Reed.

  113. macilrae says:

    I enjoy this man for his originality, his evidently wide interests and his excellent English: not to mention the wit and humor – both wet and dry. Shockingly often, his clever ironies go right over the heads of his audience.

    Additionally, many of his pieces hit the nail squarely on the head.

    This present article isn’t one of his greatest as there are too many bewildering contradictions in the official explanations of the cited events to give them any more credibility than some of the CTs – and often less.

    Conspiracy: “an agreement among a group of people to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act”

    The fact is that almost the entire foreign policy of the United States is conducted in such an overtly duplicitous fashion as to defy any other explanation than the existence of a massive conspiracy

    But this is no excuse for some of the nasty, ad hominem jibes being delivered here.

  114. @Miggle

    Pakistan was created by Jews ? For what purpose ? Was the creation of Pakistan’s atom bomb also a Jewish conspiracy ? A nuclear armed Islamic state hostile to Israel, yeah exactly what Israel needs ! Those clever Jews !

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Miggle
  115. Rurik says:
    @joeshittheragman

    Fred Reed is an ex-Marine like me but he knows that if he made too many waves about this, he would be in for some hard times and he doesn’t want that at this stage of his life.

    at this stage in his life, you’d think he’d want to repose with some shred of dignity, and bask in the good-graces he formerly used to enjoy from his readers. Perhaps kick out some biting commentary on our Idiocracy from time to time.

    But instead he goes full-blown lickspittle to the goons waging false flags and wars all over the planet.

    I can even imagine Fredo sticking his tongue out and literally licking the spit dribbling off of Dick Cheney’s or Shelly Adelson’s lower lip.

    How is Fredo’s revolting and embarrassing display here any different than what Marco Rubio or Hillary Clinton do? Fredo is now the Jeb! of ‘Journalism’.

    He didn’t have to even ‘go there’. He could have written more about the new Particle Collider they’re building in El Salvador. But instead he went full-on Sean Hannity/Wolf Blitzer/Rachel Maddow.

    A sad, boorish and ignominious fate for a once talented writer.

  116. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Thanks – so I hinted in the right direction. – Ahh “theoristess” – not theoristesses – or theoristeses. Just curious.

  117. MaryLS says:

    Of course there are real conspiracies. Does Reed think that people with a nefarious agenda would be forthcoming about their activities? There are real conspiracies and sometimes people are done away with to cover them up (e.g. Phillip Marshall, his kids and even his dog! Seth Rich is another likely victim of a conspiracy, and you can go back into history to find many more. A conspiracy exists when some major wrong-doing is suspected, but we don’t have all the evidence. This leads to speculation and not all speculation is rational or consistent. The trick is to distinguish between what is true and what is not. It is dangerous for people to unquestioningly accept “official” explanations for destructive events that impact political power and major events. Reed’s trivial investigation of the murder of JFK undermines his argument. People should not dismiss any conspiracy theory without examining the arguments put forward.

  118. Willem says:

    Part of what Fred says is true (many CT hold up amazingly difficult propositions of what really happened, and are not willing to use Occam’s razor because their alternative world is so much more intersting than the dull word where things sometimes just happen), part of this is not true: all CT belong to the part that I just wrote in brackets. Amazing that Reed doesn’t understand this. Or perhaps he is just trying to take the piss out of commenters.

    Anyway I agree with the broad brush of Fred’s definition of a CT. Which doesn’t mean that 911 was not an inside job, JFK was not killed by whoever, and that TWA 800 just fell from the sky.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  119. MaryLS says:
    @anon

    Powerful comment. Astonishing also is that drastic changes to the social fabric are all presented under the umbrella of such nice -sounding moral principles — “equality”, “sustainable development”, “saving the planet”. This is an old trick– using euphemistic language to disguise what is really going on. It is amazing that so many people are still oblivious to the sinister agenda.

  120. Rurik says:
    @macilrae

    The fact is that almost the entire foreign policy of the United States is conducted in such an overtly duplicitous fashion as to defy any other explanation than the existence of a massive conspiracy

    But this is no excuse for some of the nasty, ad hominem jibes being delivered here.

    yea, it’s not like he’s acting as an apologist for mass-murder or treason or anything!

    So a few thousand Americans perished in fireballs on 9/11, worrying about who actually murdered them is tawdry and vulgar. Better it is to mock those who actually seek and speak the truth.

    They are the ones who’re beneath contempt, huh Fredo?

    All those architects and engineers and pilots and others who demand to know who actually committed that unspeakable act of treachery and murder. And then used it to foment endless wars of aggression and horrors that have murdered and maimed millions of innocents the world over. Destroying nation after nation, bankrupting the US economically and morally in pursuit of a (((fiend’s))) prize; global conquest.

    All of trite consequence and glib dismissal, if you consult our Fredo here.

    Heaven forfend if someone should sling an ad hominem at the Jeb of Journalism for his craven intellectual prostitution. That would simply be untoward.

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  121. Spiritof42 says: • Website
    @redmudhooch

    Notice that the buildings turned to dust from the top all the way down. That isn’t smoke. No way could heat from jet fuel do that.

    I don’t know what technology they used. I know there is no possible way the lower structures could have turned to dust by heat and fire. First, heat dissipates from the source. The lower structures were not hot nor under undue stress. Second, steel loses its strength from heat. At worst, there would have been some local buckling. Finally, for three tall structures to fall straight down, one has to assume the downward stresses on the lower structures was uniformly distributed. That too would be impossible. In essence, the official narrative attempts to reverse the laws of physics.

    Reed should stick to what he knows.

    See the work of Judy Wood, “Where Did The Towers Go”. https://www.amazon.com/Towers-Evidence-Directed-Free-energy-Technology/dp/0615412564/ref=sr_1_1?crid=36JMG6ID9G2N4&keywords=judy+wood+where+did+the+towers+go&qid=1552059045&s=books&sprefix=judy+wood%2Caps%2C127&sr=1-1-catcorr

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  122. Sean says:
    @onebornfree

    In the 17 years from his birth Oswald’s mother had moved house 21 times with him and he attended 12 different schools in Texas, Louisiana, and New York.. When he was sixteen she wrote him a false declaration to get him in the Marines, which his older brother had already. Next year he finally got in but Oswald was treated horribly by his fellow Marines. They threw him in the shower, constantly insulted him as homosexual, and dubbed him ‘Ossie Rabbit ‘. Oswald was not a standard personalty, and though at the high end of average-bright IQ seems to have been dyslexic judging by the pattern of mistakes in his writings.

    Oswald started acting tough while stationed in Japan: pouring beer over the head of an NCO and challenging him to fight, firing his rifle for no reason while on guard duty, and carrying an illegal .22 Derringer–on a hair trigger apparently because he accidentally shot himself. All this crazy stuff and the resultant two courts martial time in the brig, reduction to buck private and relegation to janitorial work and came after he dipped his wick (he got treated for VD in Japan). Oswald was 19 years old when he defected to the Soviet Union.

    It is true that Oswald had been a radar operator on a base there were U2 flights from and defected to the USSR, which could have made the American people think Cuba and Russia were responsible for the assassination. It would have started WW3 if they had. The military industrial complex, LBJ, and or Israel might have used Oswald in a plan aimed at starting WW3 or doing something else while avoiding WW3, but what no one would ever have done is use Oswald in a plan that entailed rolling of the dice for WW3 as a side effect.

  123. There are, of course, infinite possible variations.

    For example, perfectly good sources make it quite clear the Israelis knew about the 9/11 attacks and filmed them happening. Here’s a link to the ABC News story on the subject: https://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1

    So, sure: the controlled demolitions fantasy is silly; in that case, why bother with planes at all? Just claim it was an attack ala the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing.

    However, the opposite also clearly isn’t the case; our betters weren’t just innocently unaware of what al Qaeda was about to do. At a minimum, they let it happen.

    One might even suspect the ‘controlled demolition’ nonsense is encouraged. It’s obviously ridiculous, and it distracts from the perhaps less spectacular but equally subversive truth; 9/11 was allowed to occur.

    Not all conspiracy theories are real, but equally, not everything that is done is done in the open, and carefully and frankly explained to anyone who asks.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Hamlet's Ghost
  124. @zuchev

    It is exactly how everyone who wants to, or has to, follow the establishment line has to think and talk on everything that matters. I bet you cannot find one major US politician who dares to think any differently. Even Trump does not dare to step outside of 9/11 box and would never even look at the simple arithmetic that 2 does not equal 3. In Canada I have found more people in coffee breaks at different who are feeling safe to challenge the politically correct establishment narratives on these kind of issues, but there still is that sheepish majority who sneer when some view comes out which challenges their notions from the corporate media.

  125. Che Guava says:

    Conspiracies are many and very real. If you are a U.S.A. person of sound mind (or just an observor, as I), you have to conclude that a conspiracy has been running against your elected president ever since his election, or that ‘they’ have a double-game, to get him elected as a knowing tool who will do almost nothing he says, as a conspiracy.

    Unless the reader is very dim, other examples are more than ample.

    11th Sept., 2011, so much of the truth has been memory-holed, although I recall reports of the time, sure is a conspiracy, sure does involve Israel spooks, ‘Saud’ creeps, and U.S.A. spooks. Il est demonstrando.

    The Jewish takeover of the law, education, selected other bueaucracy in all English-speaking (and most western Europe) countries? Not a conspiracy?

    Many more.

    So conspiracies exist, but the last above even falls into ‘none dare call it conspiracy’ territory, say it plainly, become an unperson.

    I will just listing a few enjoyable and interesting works of fiction.

    The Illuminatus! Trilogy, by Robert Anton Wilson.

    I am sure that I have mentioned this here before, it is very hippy gen. (I don’t like that and as second language and non. U.S., looking up referents took time), but it is hilarious, satirising all kinds of occult curents and Aliza Rosenbaum (Ayn Rand), and Atlas Shrugged, in particular.

    First time I was reading Illuminatus!, I had not read Atlas Shrugged, Illuminatus was still funny.

    Of course I never read all 600 pages of John Galt’s speech (perhaps I did, really, off-putting), read the bodice-ripping rest (the bodice-ripping and steam-age parts, pretty good at times) but it made Illuminatus even better, since I was better able to see the satire in the Aliza Rosenbaum walk-on parts. Of course, Wilson was a coward in so much as he was assigning his parody of Rosenblum (to be on the safe side), to a fictional southern Christian type. No effect of conspiracy there, ya think?

    If so, you are a fool.

    The old movie with Mel Gibson and Julia Roberts called in English, Conspiracy Theory? Stupid in parts, but Mel did a great performance as a totally paranoid type.

    Conspiracy? It is interesting that the original cinema release had a little real MK-Ultra footage cut in, now gone.

    I could go on and on, but stop with …

    For those who haven’t seen it, the ’70’s movie Executive Action is pretty good. It is fun to watch, and plausible, but I am not saying that the narrative matches reality.

    On the other hand, the credits end with a long list of mysteriously dead and vanished people who should have been material witnesses. That list of names doesn’t appear to be fake.

    Finally, a company made a not bad game ‘JFK Reloaded’, the point was to prove the single-gun theory, so one could win a (not large, not small) cash prize for doing the requisite damage with a single round.

    The Kennedy family whined, the game makers claimed that somebody had it in one shot (although the game makers never posted such a video, but some of the game engine was commandeered for mayhem in Dallas, funny to watch.

  126. @Seraphim

    The Masons continue to control most of our Western institutions and in particular our political ones. A person like Trump would never even have been bailed out of hock or ascended to be a Presidential candidate unless he was bound, certified, and anointed by his Masonic and Zionist masters. Transparent government and democracy has become a total joke. Also, we are surrounded by Masonic symbols, which says something about their control through the internet.

    https://www.ancient-code.com/we-are-surrounded-by-masonic-symbols-how-modern-logos-are-linked-to-secret-societies/

  127. All you say maybe true and as I do not subscribe to CT nonsense, it most likely is factual, however, the Iraq war did happen as the result of 9/11 and blood and treasure were spent in copious amounts; therefore, here is one question for your disbelieving mind, Freddy Boy: qui bono?

  128. Kapyong says:

    Wow, what a load of crap.
    As if conspiracies never happen.

  129. Rurik says:
    @Colin Wright

    So, sure: the controlled demolitions fantasy is silly

    and the fact that this OBVIOUS controlled demolition was reported by the media BEFORE it happened, is all the proof anyone would need to know that this was pre-arranged.

    But then, (on top of that), as you consider that all the forensic evidence of this crime and architectural impossibility was all shipped off to China to be melted down, means that only an asshole would continue with the farce.

    This was the new Pearl Harbor that our neocons demanded. Duh.

    ; in that case, why bother with planes at all?

    To create the horrific scenes- to create the necessary outrage in the American public. In order to get them to suit up their young people to go kill and die for Israel. Duh.

    Are you really that stupid?

    • Agree: Agent76, Miro23
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  130. None re call it conspiracy, but the fact is that Israel and the Zionist controlled deep state did 911 and got away with it and every thinking American knows it. Seven WTC buildings were destroyed and 3000 Americans killed and the Pentagram was a prewired internal explosion, see April Gallops videos and Dr. Judy Woods videos on you tube and see drjudywood.com and her book Where Did The Towers Go, this was not a conspiracy , it was a fact!

    The author of this article is obviously a deep state disinformation agent provocateur!

  131. Truth says:

    LOL.

    (I didn’t read one word of the article, but I can tell it was funny.)

  132. Agent76 says:

    Feb 10, 2019 THE “TOXIC MYTHOLOGY” OF 9/11 IS DESTROYING HUMANITY

    9/11 was a neo-con coup. To believe otherwise is to willfully suspend the laws of physics, and to reject historical facts and common sense. It requires a leap of misguided faith.

    http://www.worldpronews.com/81482/7244/290/d4bf1d57749e1e1f1dfac4ce7ced1cb33af959ef

    Sep 11, 2013 9/11 In A Nutshell as James Corbett presents this 5 minute parody of the official conspiracy theory of 9/11

  133. It took me 55 years or so to figure it out and it absolutely shocked me when I did, but we are genuinely living in the matrix in the sense that everybody who hasn’t taken a red pill yet believes mostly nonsense about the world. Any time there is a majority on one side of an issue, with the media and the government and the “experts” agreeing, and some minority on the other side, some minority is almost always right. And the angrier the majority is at the skeptics, the more likely the majority is completely delusional.

    This happens for a lot of reasons. People, especially in large groups, are highly prone to delusions because they are evolved to join with the majority rather than seek rationality. They look for confirmation and ignore the evidence against whatever it is they want to believe.

    At least since Gustav Lebon’s 1898 book “the crowd”, which sat on Theodore Roosevelt’s bedside table, and was dogeared by Mussolini, and was essentially plagiarized by Hitler according to his biographer, and inspired Edward Bernays (father of Madison Avenue, author of “making the world safe for democracy”, author of “Propaganda”, man who gave us fluoridated water, diamond engagement rings, bacon and eggs, CIA in Guatemala, women smoking, etc. etc.) who in turn inspired Goebbels, opinion leaders have known how to manipulate crowds and done it frequently, including numerous false flags. (LeBon recommended if you want to stir up the French blow up the Eiffel Tower and they will attack anybody you want.) Hitler told you what he was going to do in Mein Kampf where he pointed out that the big lie will never be suspected because the masses will never believe you could “lie so infamously.”

    At this point it is completely demonstrated that the scientific literature on vaccines says the opposite of what the CDC and media says it does, that the climate data is simply fraudulent, that most of the news is fake, and that most everything some conspiracy theorist thinks was a false flag was. Of course most of the theories about these false flags are delusional too – a lot of them are probably planted by the CIA to discredit conspiracy theories. But the official stories are demonstrably bogus. For example the official theory about 9/11 violates numerous laws of physics and could not possibly have happened that way. It wasn’t the Israelis either however.

    A common argument against false flags is that they could never keep them secret. This is intuitive but empirically falsified. The government is very good at keeping secret things secret – they kept Bletchley Park which determined World War II and had 8000 employees secret for 25 years after the war before they decided to release it. They kept Los Alamos secret in spite of vast numbers of employees and etc. there were lots of 9/11 whistleblowers – whistleblowers are unimportant because nobody pays any attention to them and the media won’t cover them. Consider the NSA illegal surveillance of Americans. In spite of the fact that Binney had blown the whistle, nobody knew anything about it until Snowden came out with vast amounts of documentary evidence. And he had to take it abroad because no US media would cover it. And even after he did and it was all published almost nobody pays any attention. Look at vaccines and climate change. The fact that the official stories are nonsense is published in the scientific literature. It’s as transparent as it could possibly be yet the story doesn’t break because people stick with their groupthink.

    Why is the majority always so deluded? Well they don’t need any good reason to believe their theory since they believe it because the majority does. The minority however gets all kinds of abuse and they need a good reason which is usually rationality. The majority is susceptible to and subject to vast amounts of propaganda because there is money to be made there and political power. The small minority not so much.

    Here is a diagram proving that almost always the majority is delusional. https://truthsift.com/graphtree/On-Controversial-Topics,-Who-is-More-Often-Right,-the-Majority-or-a-Minority/466/4867

    Please add additional proofs and refutations as you have rational contributions to make.

    Truthsift It is like a block chain for how you know things and where the information comes from. You can post proof/refutation diagrams and everybody’s opinion is reflected since anybody can and their proofs or refutations exactly on the diagram where the contribution is relevant. You don’t get the kind of chaff that hides the actual interesting points on long lists of messages and hides the truth about false flags in vast amounts of disinformation. You can see what is Tentatively Established (since nothing in science is ever permanently established) and why and how and how all the arguments against it have been rebutted.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  134. Agent76 says:

    Sep 5, 2016 9/11 Suspects: Rudy Giuliani

    Mayor Giuliani oversaw the illegal destruction of the 9/11 crime scene and is criminally liable for the deaths of hundreds of emergency workers for not passing on prior warnings about the collapses of the Twin Towers. It is no wonder, then, that the Fire Department of New York so passionately detest Giuliani for his actions in disgracing their fallen brothers and covering up the 9/11 crime.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Sean
    , @Miro23
  135. Rurik says:
    @Nat Philosopherat Philosopher

    the official theory about 9/11 violates numerous laws of physics and could not possibly have happened that way. It wasn’t the Israelis either however.

    thank you for pointing that out.

    The other day I saw someone trying to blame the USS Liberty attack (another tinfoil-hat conspiracy theory) on Israel!

    As if Israel had anything to do with that!

    We need to guard against rank anti-Semitism if we’re going to find the truth.

    I’m so tired of people saying things like the war on Iraq or Libya or Syria, (or the pending war on Iran) has anything to do with Israel!

    Israel suffers to be America’s ally and protector! She bravely faces the terrorists in Gaza and Lebanon and Syria and elsewhere in order to keep Americans free and safe.

    The idea that Israel has anything to do with wars or false flag attacks like the USS Liberty or 9/11 (or the Lavon affair, etc..), is coarse anti-Semitism most foul.

    • LOL: apollonian
  136. Mulegino1 says:
    @Felix Culpa

    And those two competing overarching theories as to origin and cause extend to those abuses heaped upon the populace which we are instructed to receive as gifts. Two examples: the imposition upon the nation of prenatal infanticide and sodomy as marriage.

    True! But now our “enlightened” kosher overlords are taking it one step further by including post-natal homicide/infanticide in their poisonous cocktail of gynocracy and sodomania.

    The esoteric explanation involves a controlled, demographic demolition.

    Very well put- and so true.

    How much longer before we are forced to participate directly in the celebratory rites of sodomy a.k.a. “Pride Parades”? One wonders what the source of pride is for the disgusting crime against and inversion of nature.

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  137. Rurik says:
    @Agent76

    Mayor Giuliani oversaw the illegal destruction of the 9/11 crime scene

    and Robert Mueller was head of the FBI at the time.

    https://newspunch.com/robert-mueller-911-truthers-terrorists/

    I’ve always wondered whether the idiotic “Russia investigation”, wasn’t just a pretext to give Mueller the power necessary to clamp down on any actual investigation of 9/11. A crime that would take down the whole deepstate swamp, (and the ((dual-citizen)) scum along with it).

    Mueller knows that if 9/11 truth gets out, it’s his own arse on the line. They would launch a nuclear war before they’d let that happen.

    In the mean time, just pay some ‘Jeb of Journalism’ to shill for the regime.

    • Replies: @Agent76
  138. Sean says:
    @Agent76

    The Fire Department could only aim their hoses, but cops died on 9/11 too. Is he bulletproof ?

  139. @macilrae

    Shockingly often, his clever ironies go right over the heads of his audience.

    If this is a clever irony, then my name ain’t JS, and I know even less. Can you ‘splain de eye-ronny here?:

    Now, I came up in journalism as a newspaper reporter. In my time, though no longer, newspapers esteemed factual accuracy. The paper might be biased politically, and always was, but the reporter had better get his facts right. The consequences of not doing so were finding another job, libel suits, and just plain embarrassment.

    The enforcer of this regimen was the desk editor. He tended to be cynical, remorselessly unsympathetic, and unbullshittable. When you handed in your copy, he expected it to be sourced. There was a saying, “If your mother says she loves you, check it out.”

    Hey Fwed, wuzzat eye-ronny?

    In case it was or even if it wasn’t, here’s something to chew on.:

    A quarter of a million Americans buy [The New York Times] every day, and form their whole view of life from its columns. And never a day out of more than ten thousand days that this newspaper has not subtly and cunningly distorted the news of the world in the interest of special privilege.

    UPTON SINCLAIR, THE CRIMES OF THE “TIMES” A Test of Newspaper Decency, 1921

    If anyone thinks he limited his criticism to the NYT, or being eye-ronik, check this out…

    If you will count these things as bribery, you are no longer
    at a loss for evidence. You discover that great systems of
    corruption of the press have been established ; the bribing of
    American Journalism has become a large-scale business enter-
    prise,
    which has been fully revealed by government investiga-
    tions, and proven by the sworn testimony of those who do
    the work.

    -Upton Sinclair, The brass check, a study of American journalism, p306, 1919

    Sinclair wrote that in 1919, so things musta got cleaned up a bit before Fwed came on the scene. Or maybe he dun cleaned it all up his own self!

    • Replies: @macilrae
  140. Alfred says:

    I think that Fred Reed is trying to be sarcastic. Fire does not cause buildings to blow up. And for giant components in the buildings to fly upwards and sideways.

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it

  141. wally says:
    @Per/Norway

    It’s curious how those who dismiss those they disagree with as ‘conspiracy theory nuts’ are then quick to present their own conspiracy theories like the government’s impossible 9/11 conspiracy theory.

    The fact is that conspiracies are proven everyday in courts of law around the world.

    Reed’s childish argument, laced with strawmen aplenty, is just another way of avoiding real debate on specifics.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  142. @Rurik

    ‘…To create the horrific scenes- to create the necessary outrage in the American public. In order to get them to suit up their young people to go kill and die for Israel. Duh.

    Are you really that stupid?’

    Why would the planes be necessary? We’d be outraged if planes flew into the Twin Towers — but it’d be cool if someone just blew them up?

    Are you really that stupid? Given the controlled demolition theory, hijacking the planes and flying them into the Twin Towers at all becomes a superfluous and wildly risky complication. It makes no sense.

    Intentionally or not, your theory simply serves to obscure the perfectly well-documented and equally damning truth; Israel didn’t carry out the attacks, but she knew they were going to happen and let them happen.

    • Replies: @Miro23
    , @Rurik
  143. @Franklin Ryckaert

    ‘A nuclear armed Islamic state hostile to Israel, yeah exactly what Israel needs ! ‘

    Well, Israel does need enemies. She prefers ’em weak and impotent, but at the same time, a certain aura of authenticity to the ‘threat’ is necessary.

    However, you’re probably right; I doubt if Israel wanted Pakistan to actually get the atomic bomb. What’s preferred is utterly impotent striving ala Iraq.

  144. @Rurik

    The reason you are arguing about the USS liberty is that you are using it as a snowman since there is no evidence the Israelis were involved particularly in 9/11 but a lot of evidence they were involved in the USS liberty. So you are doing a bait and switch.
    Nothing could be clearer than that the US government itself was heavily prepared before 9/11 to cover it up and covered it up after it every way possible and was furthermore heavily prepared before with detailed plans to use the event to motivate NSA surveillance and to invade multiple Middle East countries. Why go looking to blame the Israelis with essentially no evidence and Operationally very difficult and dangerous task if they wanted to do it in New York unless you are an anti-Semite, when it’s plain as a pike staff can blame Bush Cheney etc. who were clearly involved.

  145. Rurik says:

    Are you really that stupid? Given the controlled demolition theory, hijacking the planes and flying them into the Twin Towers at all becomes a superfluous and wildly risky complication. It makes no sense.

    look, all you have to do is watch the video of building seven being imploded. It’s a no-brainer.

    If you have eyes and a functioning brain, it is obvious that building was brought down by a controlled demolition.

    Add to that the pre-reporting,

    and the subsequent destruction of all evidence, and only a fool or a liar can still cling to the idea that building seven fell because it was ‘incredibly structurally damaged’.

    Yes, the Mossad was there and ”documenting the event”, because they had orchestrated it, and wanted to document their handiwork.

    They also knew the USS Liberty was going to be attacked, and didn’t warn the crew!

    hmm, seems like there’s a pattern of them not warning us of impending (false flag) attacks.

    The real amazing coincidence is that following these cowardly acts of treachery by Israel, our entire MIC and Pentagon and media and government all mobilized to start wars against Israel’s well-earned enemies.

    Dick Cheney is even on the strategic board of Genie Energy!

    isn’t that an amazing coincidence?!

  146. macilrae says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey Fwed, wuzzat eye-ronny?

    This particular piece was quite without irony – when Fred lays it on however, it’s often done with a shovel yet many still seem to take him literally – whipping themselves into apparently self-gratifying rage.

    Some folk appear to need a hate-focus to point at – perhaps as a sort of deflective defense?

  147. @restless94110

    Fred has pointed out in numerous previous columns his fondness for Padre Kino. Perhaps that was it.

  148. Believers in one theory usually believe in several.

    If there’s a serial killer/offender/… on the loose, it’s natural to associate him with each next crime fitting his profile. The occupational hazard, so to say…

    To persuade the thoughtful, they would need to show that controlled demolition was possible. They do not. They do not even try.

    And why should they ? To ruin somebody’s version of events in question one doesn’t have to show what really happened. It’s the ABCs of logic and based on it legal reasoning in jurisprudence: “This man didn’t do that. He couldn’t have done it – here’s the proof. Find another suspect and propose another theory…”. It’s the official version that MUST answer all the questions (without contradicting not only facts, but the laws of logic, math, physics, etc. as well), instead of labeling people posing them as CTs.

    As for a proof based not so much on logic and facts as on “don’t you believe the officials and/or the specialists ?” the answer is simple: “Just like ordinary people officials and specialists may lie and may be bought or intimidated. There’s nothing that makes them exempt from such possibilities”.

  149. Agent76 says:
    @Rurik

    Your instincts are right on the mark and this shows you are correct.

    The FBI’s Secret Rules

    President Trump has inherited a vast domestic intelligence agency with extraordinary secret powers. A cache of documents offers a rare window into the FBI’s quiet expansion since 9/11.

    https://theintercept.com/series/the-fbis-secret-rules/

    • Agree: Rurik
  150. Ians says:

    That was educational. It’s certainly taught me a lesson – never again read any articles from this cretin. I’ve visited Dealey Plaza several times and don’t recognise the description of the grassy knoll from the above. The Depository is palpably not the best place to fire from.
    As for the magic bullet supporters, the bullet entered his back, several inches below the neck and didn’t penetrate more than a couple of inches.

    • Replies: @Sean
  151. @Mulegino1

    I see your every point.

    As to the source of the pride, it would be that of he whose cry is “Non serviam.”

  152. @wally

    Sweet Jesus, I agree with Wally.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Wally
  153. @Nat Philosopherat Philosopher

    “…there is no evidence the Israelis were involved particularly in 9/11…”

    Watch Christopher Bollyn : Who Really Did 9/11:

    “…why go looking to blame the Israelis with essentially no evidence and Operationally very difficult and dangerous task if they wanted to do it in New York unless you are an anti-Semite…”

    The truth is “anti-Semitic”.

  154. republic says:
    @Felix Culpa

    The guy is in the disinformation business.

    Different theories have been posted here by many commentators.

    I think that he was compromised and had to pay off that debt.

    Another theory is to the “tribal” origins of his wife who many people believe to be a converso

  155. republic says:
    @Miggle

    Muhammad Ali Jinnah

    He was asked to be the first President of India but he turned down the offer by Nehru and said that he would rather be the first head of Pakistan

  156. Polymath says:

    One of those three is not like the others.

    For 9/11, we have a plausible explanation supported by evidence (hijacked planes crashed into buildings) and Occam’s razor means the conspiracy theories have a lot of work to do.

    For JFK, we have a plausible explanation supported by evidence (Oswald shot Kennedy from the School Book Depository), ditto.

    For flight 800, we don’t. No technical explanation has ever been given that made sense and the proof is that, uniquely among all major air crashes caused by accident, NO CHANGES TO PREVENT IT HAPPENING AGAIN WERE EVER IMPLEMENTED.

    I’d be pleased to be corrected about this. What lessons were learned from TWA 800, and why doesn’t the NTSB worry about it happening again?

  157. @Si1ver1ock

    “I do seem to live in a darker, more sinister world … ”

    In other words, the real world. Welcome aboard. As to UFOs I think the majority of the postwar sightings are related to Nazi paperclip scientists in the U.S. continuing their work on anti-gravity vehicles. If we are being visited by an alien species they are probably interdimensional in nature, and don’t require metal ships to do their travelling.

  158. @Nat Philosopherat Philosopher

    the USS liberty is that you are using it as a snowman since there is no evidence the Israelis were involved particularly in 9/11

    “Snowman”?

    Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.

    Israeli involvement is one helluvan answer to “cui bono?”

  159. Danny says:

    heheh WdaF they must be train by Japanies Kamikaze

  160. @alexander

    The Illuminati is another name for an ancient network that began amongst the Jewish diaspora in Babylon around 560 BCE. It is an occult system that has a symbiotic relationship with the Talmudic Kabbalah, and began sending out its agents, Babylonian Magi, throughout the near east to influence and subvert religions and governments. Soon the Magi appeared in classical Greece to be begin its influence in the West. Eventually, this system played a role in the creation of Christianity and went on to produce powerful bloodline families in Europe that bankrolled and controlled European monarchies and governments. The Babylonian system is fully integrated into the West, its presence still powerful in governments, markets, and culture.

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @Seraphim
  161. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:

    Dear Mr. Reed and some others:

    Please read the definition of conspiracy:

    con·spir·a·cy
    /kənˈspirəsē/
    noun
    a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

    There are obviously lots of conspiracies.

  162. @alexander

    SATAN, PRINCE OF THIS WORLD
    By
    William Guy Carr, R.D.Commander R.C.N. (R)

    is a good book on the Illuminati and everything related to them. I think you can find a free pdf somewhere on www.

  163. Sparkon says:
    @Spiritof42

    Finally, for three tall structures to fall straight down, one has to assume the downward stresses on the lower structures was uniformly distributed.

    Careful. While it seems true that Bldg. 7 fell into its own footprint, i.e. straight down, that really isn’t the case for either of the two twin towers, where material was ejected laterally, while spilling out well beyond the two structures, and damaged nearby buildings as the twins, one after the other, seemingly tore themselves apart from the top down. However it was done, WTC 1 and WTC 2 did not fall completely into their respective footprints, nor did they fall “straight down.”

    One of the so-called chex sections used to fabricate the exterior structure of the WTC twins was photographed embedded in the glitzy glass exterior of the Winter Garden Atrium which also had numerous other holes, and was located across the street from WTC 1. See also damage to the Deutsche Bank structure across the street from WTC 2 that was ripped up so severely by ejected debris on 9/11 that it was written off and eventually dismantled.

    Hollywood calling, so let’s cut to the chase.

    At the very beginning of the destructive sequences for both of the twin towers, it appears from the videos that a substantial portion of the top floors of these structures has by some unknown means detached itself from the lower floors.

    http://truthandshadows.com/2010/11/26/tilting-south-tower-gives-away-demolition-of-trade-center-towers/#more-375

    In the case of WTC 2, a significant number of floors at the very top of the building was detached from the lower floors, and the entire block of floors was tilted on its vertical axis. To arrive at the arrangement of the structure(s) shown in the photograph, the entire central core of WTC 2 had to have been severed along with virtually all of the 260 vertical exterior box columns that enclosed the building like a cage. Then, some force had to have been applied to that top segment to displace it from its vertical axis.

    Nice force, if you can get it.

    The image was extracted from a video sequence. As the video continues, that entire top section of WTC 2 just sort of fades away…like a bad special effect.

    In the case of WTC 1, which collapsed next, the entire top section suddenly plummets downward, like a pile-driver, as if all the structure and its support and resistance from the floors below had magically melted away…like a bad special effect.

    Let the viewer beware.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  164. @Colin Wright

    The planes are needed to give cover to the demolitions. But alas, even he best laid plans “gang aft agley”.

    The fly in the ointment was Flight 93’s over 30 minute delay in takeoff from JFK. If it had taken off on schedule, it would have hit WTC7 minutes after the twin towers were hit. The result was the plane went down (shot down, per Donald Rumsfeld) over Pennsylvania, leaving a big problem: a building in New York rigged with explosives and no plane to “bring it down”.

    (((They))) eventually hit on a solution that debris from the twin towers damaged WTC7 enough to cause it to fall down on its own footprint at free-fall speed, exactly like the twin towers.

    This explanation for the destruction of WTC7 was even lamer than the one that explained jet fuel fires melting the supports for he downing of the twin towers, which is why WTC7 isn’t even mentioned in the official 9/11 report.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  165. I suppose you believe Julius Caesar dies in a skiing accident and that Guy Fawkes was just planning a fireworks display to celebrate the 4th of July.

  166. Anon[206] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    The holohoax is not a conspiracy theory, it is a preposterous and transparent hoax. Six million killed in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms in the best documented genocide in history, and yet there are no bodies, no gas chambers disguised as shower rooms, and no documents. If you doubt it here is a 12 minute red pill see

    for more info + vids see http://www.holohoax101.org

  167. @SunBakedSuburb

    Sweet Jesus, I agree with Wally.

    Amen, Bro!

  168. nsa says:

    Looks like Freddie the Gringo decided to have some tongue-in-cheek fun with his readers.

  169. ricpic says:

    Wow, the gnostics are out in force against Fred.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  170. @Hamlet's Ghost

    ‘The planes are needed to give cover to the demolitions…’

    Why do you need planes to ‘give cover’ to the demolitions? Were there planes for either the Oklahoma City Bombing or the 1993 World Trade Center bombing? If you can blow up the buildings in the first place, you can blow them up and say ‘it was a terrorist attack.’ There are easier ways to plant evidence than to hijack four planes and fly them into buildings.

    What’s exasperating is that there was a conspiracy. The evidence is overwhelming the Israelis knew these attacks were going to happen and chose not to warn us. That right there would end our support for Israel.

    But this actual truth gets obscured by the more improbable 9/11 trutherism nonsense. It allows the Zionists to dismiss the facts as just more of the conspiracy rubbish. Wittingly or not, those who purvey this bilge are serving Israel.

    • Replies: @Hamlet's Ghost
  171. alexander says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Thank you for that information.

    Most illuminating .

  172. @Rurik

    Do you want him to get the Joe Sobran treatment?!

    You hit the nail on the head.

    To paraphrase a real journalist, G.K. Chesterton: a good article tells us everything about its subject matter but a bad article just tells us everything about its author.

    • Replies: @Sean
  173. Maybe Fred Reid wrote this as humor piece…….
    I hope so.
    In any event, I’m not sure why Unz chose to publish it.

  174. @dearieme

    Yea, so thin that 2 years earlier, a golfer’s charter flight was tracked by 5 F-16s within 20 minutes of it not responding to air traffic control.

    http://www.airsafe.com/stewart.htm

  175. Like so many other thinkers over the age of 12, Fred has discovered that snide is the way to win all debates.

    I read that large sections of the twin towers were closed down for “maintenance” some weeks prior to 911. Fred did not discuss building 7 at all.

    He used to ride around with cops as a reporter. I think he contracted establishment fever.

  176. @NoseytheDuke

    With few exceptions the contributors here invest considerable intellectual energy to produce work product that can stand up to penetrating examination. Agreement is not required, but a modicum of intellectual honesty, fact-based reasoning, and disinterested objectivity should be the minimum requirement for access to this platform. Fred’s lazy-minded, insipid tripe is not worthy of much comment.

  177. Mizery says:

    Congratulations Mr Reed. You are the winner of the twelfth grade essay competition. You have won 2 tickets to the premiere of The Captain Marvel Movie and a movie poster , signed by the “star” of the show Brie Larson. Please enjoy.

  178. TSOL says:

    Poor old Fred, still haven’t heard of thousands of cehmical engineers and physicists exposing real physical evidence that disproves the Official Govt Cospiracy theory? Sad RON we need Kevin Ryan on this site https://digwithin.net/

  179. Anonymous[199] • Disclaimer says:

    Typical “debunker” logic: it would be too difficult to demolishing the WTC with explosives, but a couple of planes works just fine!

  180. Luis Fierro says: • Website

    After reading this from Fred Reed, I going to take everything he says in the future with a grain of salt, or better yet, ignore him completely. If he has that much disrespect for the intelligence in the readership of this website, than the sooner we can drop him from our regular readings the better we will be.

  181. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Johnny Walker Read

    My pleasure. If you didn’t already know, the Corbett original has been “buried ” on Youtube, making it hard to find there these days, so various valiant others keep re-uploading copies to get around the censors.

    Regards, onebornfree

  182. Miggle says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Pakistan was created by Jews ? For what purpose ?

    As I said, to create a conflict that’s never to be allowed to end, in a country containing a high proportion of the world’s Muslims, a little further away than Iran.

    See Exposing Israel’s covert role in the brewing India-Pakistan conflict by Whitney Webb.

    Once the Pakistanis accept that Pakistan was created by the Jews, the conflict that’s never to be allowed to end will end.

  183. @joeshittheragman

    I found it interesting that, in Fred’s debunking of how the towers were brought down, he conveniently, (and I’d say intentionally), failed to mention the cause of Building 7’s collapse.

  184. Asagirian says: • Website

    What’s the point of elections? This is worse than stealing votes.

    It’s bad enough illegals invade the US. Instead of being punished, they are rewarded with voting rights.

    So, this is ‘liberal democracy’. It should be called global demockery.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/8/house-votes-favor-illegal-immigrant-voting/

  185. Wally says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    You’re finally waking up then.

    Cheers.

  186. Miro23 says:
    @Agent76

    Suspects: Rudolph Giuliani

    There are a long list of suspects from Dick Cheney down to the FBI agents clearing up the evidence in Florida.

    America will be on the right track when someone has enough power to arrest the whole lot of them, and do some serious questioning . Let the suspects turn state’s evidence and put their confessions on prime time TV, and any that won’t co-operate, try them for treason, and execute them according to US law.

  187. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Sparkon

    @Sparkon says: “magically melted away…like a bad special effect”

    That’s because that is exactly what it was!

    Sorry to “burst your bubble”, but the “photo” and the “live” video from which it came are both 100% fraudulent. Just like all the rest of the “live” 9/11 footage [ including WTC7 ‘s destruction].

    So Architects and Engineers For 9/11 Truth, Pilots For 9/11 Truth, Judy Wood etc etc have all been drawing their various conclusions to date mostly from fake videos and photos.

    ‘Kind of ironic when you think about it 🙂 .

    If you study the various WTC1 and 2 collapse sequences, it will be seen that the tops lean in contradictory directions, depending on which sequence is watched.

    For an introduction to this “silly ” claim of mine , please see:

    Also view page: www. septemberclues.info/wtc_collapses.shtml

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  188. Seraphim says:
    @Miggle

    As a matter of fact you are closer to the truth than you think. It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s all in the open.
    Start with Wikipedia (it is always useful as an introduction), the bio of “Muhammad Asad”:

    “Muhammad Asad born Leopold Weiss; 12 July 1900 – 20 February 1992 was a Jewish-born Austro-Hungarian, Pakistani Ambassador, Muslim journalist, traveler, writer, linguist, thinker, political theorist, diplomat and Islamic scholar. Asad was one of the most influential European Muslims of the 20th century.
    Weiss was a descendant of a long line of Jewish rabbis; however, his father, Akiva Weiss, broke from tradition and became a lawyer. Leopold received a religious education and was proficient in Hebrew from an early age, as well as familiar with Aramaic. He studied the Jewish Bible or Tanakh, the text and commentaries of the Talmud, the Mishna and Gemara, also delving into the intricacies of Biblical exegesis and the Targum.
    In 1922 Weiss moved to the British Mandate of Palestine, staying in Jerusalem at the house of his maternal uncle Dorian Feigenbaum at his invitation. Feigenbaum was a psychoanalyst, a disciple of Freud, and later founded the Psychoanalytic Quarterly.
    To gain closer assignments in the Arabic world, Weiss developed an ever-deepening engagement with Islam. This led to his religious conversion in 1926 in Berlin and adopting an Arabic name, Muhammad Asad.
    After his conversion to Islam, Asad moved to Saudi Arabia making a journey by camel across the Arabian Desert, from Tayma to Mecca.He stayed there for nearly six years during which he made five pilgrimages.
    After the sudden death of his wife Elsa, Asad stayed on in Mecca where, in a chance encounter in the Grand Mosque’s library, he met Prince Faysal. On Faysal’s invitation, Asad met King Abdulaziz (founder of modern Saudi Arabia); the meeting led to almost daily audiences with the King, who quickly came to appreciate Asad’s knowledge, keen mind and spiritual depth…
    Asad left Arabia and came to British India in 1932 where he met South Asia’s premier Muslim poet, philosopher and thinker Muhammad Iqbal. Iqbal had proposed the idea of an independent Muslim state in India, which later became Pakistan. Iqbal persuaded Asad to stay on in British India and help the Muslims of India establish their separate Muslim state…
    Asad supported the idea of a separate Muslim state in India. After the independence of Pakistan on 14 August 1947, in recognition for his support for Pakistan, Asad was conferred full citizenship by Pakistan and appointed the Director of the Department of Islamic Reconstruction by the Government of Pakistan, where he made recommendations on the drafting of Pakistan’s first Constitution. In 1949, Asad joined Pakistan’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs as head of the Middle East Division and made efforts to strengthen Pakistan’s ties with the Muslim states of the Middle East. In 1952, Asad was appointed as Pakistan’s Minister Plenipotentiary to the United Nations in New York – a position that he relinquished in 1952 to write his autobiography (up to the age of 32), The Road to Mecca…
    During his stay in Switzerland, Asad received a letter from the President of Pakistan, General Ayub Khan, who was a great admirer of his book named The Principles of State and Government in Islam (1961). In a subsequent exchange of letters, he proposed to Asad to come to Pakistan and have the membership of a seven-man group of Muslim scholars – who both supposedly knew the world and were experts on Islam – to advise him with regard to everyday matters as well as the drawing up of a new Islamic constitution for the country. At that time, Asad was immersed in his cherished work on the Qur’an, and so he regretfully declined.
    In April 2008, a space in front of the UNO City in the 22nd District of Vienna was named Muhammad-Asad-Platz in honor of Muhammad Asad. The step was taken as part of a two-day program on the European Year of Intercultural Dialogue focusing on Islam and its relationship with Europe.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  189. Miro23 says:
    @Colin Wright

    Intentionally or not, your theory simply serves to obscure the perfectly well-documented and equally damning truth; Israel didn’t carry out the attacks, but she knew they were going to happen and let them happen.

    Where’s the “perfectly well documented truth” that Israel didn’t carry out these attacks?

    There’s plenty of evidence that Israeli’s and US Zionists were all over the events of 9/11. We know that the towers didn’t fall due to aircraft impacts or fire damage, and that Zionists owned and controlled access to these buildings prior to 9/11.

    Also, the so called ” Islamist terrorist pilots” were given red carpet treatment in the Florida CIA airport flight schools while they binged on sex and drink while the FBI warned the local police to keep away (national security you know).

  190. My “conspiracy theorist” coming of age occurred during a professional and personal crisis concurrent with the Oklahoma City Bombing, when I did little but stare at a computer screen. Always, before, I had trusted and believed my government and the media. Then, the pieces were not fitting, well….. ….but I was still told: Nothing to see here; move on.

    I wanted to move on, but I also trusted my own ability to think and discern.

    Then, there was the investigation into the Vince Foster “suicide.” More mental dissonance for me. I read Hugh Sprunt’s brilliant Citizen’s Independent Report, sent to every member of the several Congressional investigatory committees. As with the media, Congress ignored Sprunt’s work:

    https://www.archives.gov/files/research/kavanaugh/releases/docid-70105694.pdf

    Next, I discovered the Washington bureau chief, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, of the London Telegraph writing about both the Foster death and the Murrah Building bombing. He made sense, but his research was not appearing in the Times or WaPo. Why? My dissonance was getting worse. I truly *wanted* to face the rear of the elevator like everyone in Asch’s conformity tests, but — blessedly — my trust in my own mind slowly calmed me down.

    Finally, I called Evans-Pritchard in DC. “Who are you?” I asked. “What is going on?” We talked for half an hour and he offered to take me and my husband to lunch the next time we were in DC. He did so, about six weeks later. He is a pleasant, quite brilliant, but straightforward man, now the International Business Editor of the Telegraph. Me? I’m just glad he made it out of DC without having the brakes on his car fail……

    A E-P’s book is a fascinating, well-documented book (horribly titled!) “The Secret Life of Bill Clinton.” It documents Foster’s murder, the BATF/FBI Keystone Cops mess over the Murrah blowup and the story of the Mena drug traffic out of Arkansas when Clinton was governor.

    Do I know who killed Foster and why? Nope. Beyond the mess the feds made of the Murrah bombing, do I know why? Nope. Possibly to increase agency budgets…..? Trust the feds to “protect” the citizen chickens from the evil right wing foxes….? Perhaps.

    I don’t go dumpster diving into the facts as deeply as I did before, but, when I saw the twin towers come down I said to myself, “That’s a controlled implosion.” Why, who? I don’t know.

    I do have a couple of books on TWA Flight 800 and, yep, it does look like the govt did it. Why’d they lie? I don’ know.

    What I have learned is to be skeptical, dig — at least a little. Then, let it go because the truth, most likely, never will surface. …Lady in Red

    PS: BTW, Obama was not born in Kenya, but was born in Seattle just a few weeks before his mother started college. His grandfather paid Barack Sr for a scam marriage and sent him off to Harvard. Obama’s real father is Frank Marshall Davis, a black poet and Communist and the reason the birth certificate was such a “problem,” is that Obama Sr. refused to sign it and the real one lists “Father Unknown.” Ergo, the need for the photoshopped copy from Hawaii. At least pieces of the “truth” are easily available; one merely has to accept that there are other pieces we may never know…..

    ……and Fred Reed is becoming something of an ignorant blowhard.

    • Replies: @republic
    , @Wizard of Oz
  191. Wade says:

    This is literally your laziest, least researched article I’ve read. Pretty pointless other than to assert that most people interested in 911/JFK/TWA are amateurs and therefore not qualified to represent the “CT” position on any of these theories. That doesn’t mean that qualified people and convincing arguments don’t exist.

    I don’t want to argue this piece beyond this. It was just lazily researched.

    • Replies: @2stateshmustate
  192. Seraphim says:
    @alexander

    The literature about the Illuminati could fill the shelves of several big libraries.
    I recommend you to start with Wikipedia (I always do) which generally does a decent job for what it is meant to be, an Encyclopedia, and its informations are generally based on serious studies which are given in the bibliography for further reading.
    Check the entries:

    “Illuminati” [The Illuminati (plural of Latin illuminatus, “enlightened”) is a name given to several groups, both real and fictitious. Historically, the name usually refers to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on 1 May 1776].

    “Adam Weishaupt” [Johann Adam Weishaupt 6 February 1748 – 18 November 1830) was a German philosopher, professor, and founder of the Order of the Illuminati, a secret society].

    “Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism” [book by Abbé Augustin Barruel, a French Jesuit priest. It was written and published in French in 1797-98, and translated into English in 1799].
    related “Proofs of a Conspiracy”, by John Robison[1798]@http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/pc
    /index.htm (a serious site giving a wealth of authentic ‘sacred’ texts circulated in the medium of secret societies).

    Avoid all writings talking about ‘Blood lines’ which are real ‘conspiracy theories’ meant to obfuscate the real conspiracies. E.g. that ‘system played a role in the creation of Christianity’. The ‘system’ is definitely anti-Christian, actually working for the abjuration of Christianity.
    Thomas Jefferson was an Illuminatus.

    • Replies: @Nonny
  193. RJJCDA says:

    So, it is impossible for two or more people to scheme together to do an evil deed. Never happened in history. Right?

    I usually find that those who discount conspiracies usually are afraid to offend those perpetrating them.

  194. @Bill Jones

    Indeed, and thanks to viewing the Simon Shack video September Clues, posted here by another commenter, I have come to believe that there were actually none at all and that the “planes” that we “saw” on television were in reality CGI.

  195. @macilrae

    But this is no excuse for some of the nasty, ad hominem jibes being delivered here.

    I disagree with you on that. Have you never heard the line, “If the cap fits, wear it”? In this case the ad hominem cap couldn’t possible fit Fred any better if his head had been melted in a pot on a stove and poured into the cap, and come to think of it, that appears to be exactly what happened in order for him to write that crap-pot of nonsense.

    • Replies: @macilrae
  196. @Willem

    Just because Occam’s razor applies some of the time doesn’t mean that it applies all of the time.

  197. JFK

    Disagree

    • Replies: @Wade
  198. Reading this trash on a website I once held in high regard is enough to make me delete the entire website from my home screen and never look at it again.
    How can you print such trash

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Miro23
  199. Pft says:

    As any law enforcement officer will tell you, the key to solving any crime usually starts with a conspiracy theory. Of course, the dumb and poor get caught pretty easily.

    Even so, hundreds of pretty smart people are convicted of conspiracy every day. The more connected you are and the richer you are the less likely this happens.

    Conspiracies are discussed and planned everyday in corporate boardrooms. When they get caught they get a token fine. Corporate citizens since Enron dont go to jail anymore. Cost of doing business, paid by shareholders. The conspirators still get a big bonus since conspiracy still pays even after the fine.

    Super rich people who have a common ideology and meet secretly in groups like Bilderberger meetings and many other forums, who control both parties and government as well as the justice system and intelligence agencies can conspire and get away with it.

    Whistleblower protection is all but gone. MSM and much of alt media is controlled and in the bag so whistlebowers dont get covered except in ridicule. Those working in government , military and intelligence are all muzzled by tough national security laws that put those who talk in jail and pensions cancelled.

    So Fred, hopefully this article boosts your social credit score and some scraps are thrown your way.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @jacques sheete
  200. Seraphim says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Before jumping to the Babylonian Magi, it would be more profitable to show the role of the more direct inspirers of the Illuminati, the Rosicrucians, and Sir Francis Bacon.
    Bacon, in his utopian work ‘Nova Atlantis’ portrayed a vision of the future of human discovery and knowledge, drawing the plan for the organization of an ideal college of savants which he called the
    “Salomon’s House”.
    Bacon has one character describe the founding of Salomon’s House by King Solamona:
    “Ye shall understand (my dear friends) that amongst the excellent acts of that king, one above all hath the pre-eminence. It was the erection and institution of an Order or Society, which we call Salomon’s House; the noblest foundation (as we think) that ever was upon the earth; and the lanthorn of this kingdom. It is dedicated to the study of the works and creatures of God. Some think it beareth the founder’s name a little corrupted, as if it should be Solamona’s House. But the records write it as it is spoken. So as I take it to be denominate of the king of the Hebrews, which is famous with you, and no stranger to us.”
    And before jumping to the ‘Blood line of Jesus’ it would also be more profitable to show the links of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Dynasty (the so-called Windsors) with the Bavarian Illuminati.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  201. Hang in there, Fred. Some of us still love you.

  202. Calling someone a CT is ad hominem. It says nothing, logically. Perhaps Fred can explain how Building 7 collapsed when it wasn’t hit by a plane or the impossible manouevres at the Pentagon or massive chunks of concrete being blown out sideways from the Twin Towers? In the first instance it is clear there are problems because of the LAWS of NATURE. And the laws of time: several media outlets reported the Building 7 collapse before it happened. To question it is not CT, it is to think that things like gravity, Newtonian mechanics and time did not take a holiday on that day. As to who “conspired”: who knows? Whoever was up to no good on that day is not exactly holding up their hand. So it is not a CT, it is a simple observation about physical evidence and some very problematic questions. It is not about who, but about basic forensics. Such as how come the steel in the rubble of the Twin Towers was running like lava and literally on fire?

    • Replies: @Sean
  203. Biff says:

    Commentators to Fred:
    “How dare you question my beliefs! Just for that I’m going to spell it all out for you for the ten thousandth time!”

    • Agree: Sean
  204. Sparkon says:
    @onebornfree

    That’s because that is exactly what it was!

    Yes Inspector Clouseau, and that’s exactly why I wrote “bad special effect” not once, but twice, in plain English.

    I wrote also “Hollywood Calling,” and concluded my post with my original tagline

    Let the viewer beware,

    which I have used from time to time at UR when discussing 9/11 video fakery, but obviously my allusions are too cryptic for you, and all my many past comments on 9/11 and CGI at UR must have escaped your laser-like attention.

    May I suggest that, in your eagerness to burst (imaginary) bubbles and make your own big noise, and you simply skimmed what I wrote without full comprehension.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @onebornfree
  205. @Retired guy

    Don’t blame Ron Unz or the website for what Fred wrote in this article, the site offers opinions from a wide range of viewpoints. Fred has been contributing here for a while but I do think that I would be reconsidering him having that privilege going forward.

    • Replies: @Sean
  206. @Sparkon

    And I for one have appreciated your many contributions on this most important topic.

  207. Sean says:
    @Rational man

    Did anything happen to Mark Lane? No, nothing. Nothing happened to David Ray Griffin either. Alan Sabrosky? nope. No tax audits, no confinement to a mental institution (as the Kennedys did to General Edwin Walker) no allegation of financial impropriety, sexual abuse, child porn on their compute, or receiving money from foreign governments. No sudden health problems either. Moreover nothing happened to their families, and going after the families of dissenters is the best way to everybody in line. Those are very timid secret agents, compared to the Watergate Plumbers for example.

  208. I finally agree: Fred Reed is a sophisticated yet facile asshole. Reminds me much of the late Alex Cockburn, may he rest in peace. Though I always suspected Alex of being an intel/disinfo agent. Can’t credit Fred that highly.

  209. In your first paragraph you are totally wrong. It is not easier to believe what you call “conspiracy theories? It is much easier and simpler to believe the BS stories put out by our obviously corrupt government and it willing mouth-piece the MSM.

    Knowing that 911 was a false flag attack done by Israelis is a burden not an liberating feeling. One knows that everything is not okey-dokey . That our government is run by traitors who will cook up an even greater false-flag next time if they think it is necessary. And it will be necessary.

    If I believed the bull shit put out by the MSM I wouldn’t have to walk on egg shells when talking politics with friends. That would make life easier.

    If I believed the traitorous BS on the MSM I wouldn’t feel like puking every time the news came on TV.

    It is stupid to say that it is easier to believe in an idea that has the entirety of the corrupt “status quo” against it than it is to just roll over and mindlessly accept their line of bull shit.
    Some people can do that, I can’t.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke, L.K
  210. Sean says:
    @Pft

    Keep taking the tablets.

  211. @Beb

    No, they are using reason to determine the truth. It’s not because they are pissed of at the MSM.

  212. @Wade

    I agree. I could only read the first paragraph, then skimmed the rest realizing it wasn’t worth the time.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  213. @Colin Wright

    The Oklahoma bombing was done by a truck bomb, and note that it did NOT bring down the building. Same with the 1993 WTC bombing which used a mere van full of explosives, and did little damage.

    The only way to get the twin towers and WTC7 to come down was to plant so much explosive that it could only point to people who had the access and resources to bring down all three buildings. That pretty much would rule out any bearded sick man living somewhere in the Hindu Kush.

    You at least agree with me that the Israelis knew about the attack in advance, but you can’t believe they would ever do such an thing at plant explosives in a heavily insured building. I suggest you look up a term that used to be well-known among NYPD arson investigators; JEWISH LIGHTNING.

  214. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    And I think you would be wise to consider Jordan Peterson’s advice about having a proper breakfast, taking exercise and going to bed at a normal time instead of smoking weed in an ventilated room and tapping away on a keyboard all night about things you don’t really believe.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Anon
  215. @Sean

    Yes, and your own wisdom is on full display in the comment history here. LOL.

    • Replies: @Sean
  216. Anon[102] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Well you have no trouble qualifying as one of Fred’s intelligent CTs and your obsessive attention to detail might have put you in the Michael Burry category in the right corcumstances c. 2007 but then you blow it. You believe Osama bin Laden whose motive for achieving what 9/11 immediately led to was perfect! Could you not extend your study of Islam to find some of the excuses for breaking the rules, deceiving infidel etc.? No doubt he was more moral than Atthur Harris, Curtis Le May etc but…. Apart from evidence that Al Qaeda had not always been scrupulous about civilian casualties you omit to notice that he had a huge motive to lie because Mullah Omar had (no one seems to deny) made his safety in Afghanistan contingent on his not being known to be responsible for 9/11.

  217. Anon[102] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    I’m afraid he does believe them. He clearly has a substance problem but do you think he’s young enough for it to be weed? BTW your comment history at least fits you to be the warder for inmates like NtD.

    • Replies: @Sean
  218. Thanks Fred for prompting me to search for Illuminati and then follow quite a few links to, inter alia, New World Order, Freemasonry and Conspiracy Theories. And thanks for insouciantly dismissing concern for nitpickers (e.g. who might point out that getting up on the grassy knoll with a gun unnoticed wasn’t necessarily too difficult if it was in a suitable bag) to add some little reasons for rejecting the theories so far advanced. I liked, for example, your pretty expert opinion that the supposed shot from the grassy knoll would not be one you would plan to count on, especially when it had to fit the timing of Oswald’s shots.

    Also, on TWA800 which has never interested me I think you have pretty well nailed it with your observation about hundreds of Navy personnel knowing about it and not saying anything – even though, and especially because, it was an accident unrelated to national security.

    Above all congratulations to the PTB for getting you to line up so reliably all the tenth rate loons that they put their ‘prentice watchers on to.

  219. @Bill Jones

    Assuming there was something significant in that link I looked at it and then it’s linked update under which, frustratingly for those who see the BBC as included in the great conspiracy there are huge numbers of CT comments:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html

  220. @swamped

    “The aircraft were presumably flown by Israeli suicide pilots”…still vainly searching for anyone else who has ever presumed this.Maybe it was that one & only UFO “theoritess(sic)??

    Am freshly perplexed all over again by this comment. For when I read Fred’s assertion that the whole thrust of the CT must imply at some fundamental level that just such agents – or at least their effective ‘stand-ins’ – must have been involved, I do not think ‘no theoretician has ever claimed this’ – I think ‘if that’s not what they were’ then what were they?

  221. Miro23 says:
    @Retired guy

    Reading this trash on a website I once held in high regard is enough to make me delete the entire website from my home screen and never look at it again.

    How can you print such trash

    There’s a lot of stuff I disagree with in the articles/comments on Unz but I don’t mind. That’s what you get with free speech – various points of view.

  222. Nonny says:
    @Seraphim

    I thought the Illuminati were those illuminated by the light of Lucifer.

    Seems that’s only a conspiracy theory and I need to leave it behind.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  223. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Sparkon

    Well sorry, I guess your post was just little too subtle for unsubtle me :-).

    Myself, I abandoned subtlety several years ago!

    I’m fairly new here, and I’m not accustomed to bumping into “September Clues” fans on a public forum. The fact that we have done so seems like good sign, to me, at least.

    I’ve been studying Simon’s work since 2007, we’ve chatted few times since then. Do you post at http://www.septemberclues.info forums ? I don’t, but I’ve read it every day since its inception.

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  224. This article provided an excellent forum, opportunity for people to demolish the bilge Freddy has put forth.

  225. onebornfree says: • Website
    @onebornfree

    @Sparkon

    And thinking a little more about this, I realized that what threw me in your post was your posting of the fake picture, and then giving a link to the awful “Truth and Shadows” blog, from which I was banned several years ago for simply trying to demonstrate that the 9/11 photos and videos to date were all 100% CGI fakes.

    That blogsite is [ or at least was] chock full of nasty little fucks, including the then owner [McKee?] , who tried to force me to reply to name-calling assholes , [back then I was still polite and cordial, even with assholes 🙂 ]. I refused, saying I’d pick and choose who I replied to. So McKee banned me.

    Concerning the tower top tilt photos scam, here’s a link to 2014 post I did at my own 9/11 blog:

    So, In Which Direction Did The WTC2 top really tilt – North, South, or To the East?
    https://onebornfrees911researchreview.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-wtc2-top-tilt-scam.html

    Regards, onebornfree

  226. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanadi_Jaradat

    At the time of her suicide [bombing] Jaradat was a law student due to qualify as a lawyer in a few weeks. She had studied law at Yarmouk University in Jordan. Jaradat reportedly carried out the bombing in Haifa as an act of revenge after Israel Defense Forces undercover operatives in Jenin killed her cousin (Salah, 34) and her younger brother (Fadi, 25),[4] both of whom were members of Islamic Jihad, with her cousin being considered to be a senior member of the Al-Quds Brigades group.[3] Earlier, when she was 21, her fiancé had been killed by Israeli security forces. Following the killing of her cousin and brother, Jaradat went into mourning and began study of the Koran and fasting two days a week.[5]

    Is it easier to false flag attack the world’s most powerful country in order to get them, a couple of years later, to invade and overthrow a regieme that is supporting Palestinian suicide bombings, or just build a wall to keep the Palestinian suicide bombers out?

    https://www.thenational.ae/image/policy:1.708127:1529139051/image/jpeg.jpg?f=16×9&w=1200&$p$f$w=dfa40e8

    Fact is the Palestinians hate Israelis and people like Jaradat were going to continue suicide bombings without Saddam, but the wall stopped them. See for yourself.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

  227. republic says:
    @Lady in Red

    Obama’s real father is Frank Marshall Davis

    someone should run a DNA analysis of Davis’s kin and Obama to get a fix on this theory.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  228. The most important thing to understand about the [Conspiracy Theory] concept is that it is utterly meaningless.

    -Jonathan Revusky,Battling the Matrix and Freeing Oneself from the Roger Rabbit Mental World

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  229. @Pft

    MSM and much of alt media is controlled and in the bag …

    So if it’s controlled and in the bag, which it is, then why refer to it as “mainstream”?

  230. denk says:

    As we know, for uncle sham, Aq and co have been a gift that keeps on giving.
    Every time when uncle sham wanted boots on the ground into some coveted real estate, Aq or its offshoot would pop up to provide uncle with an excuse.

    But it gets curious-er and curious-er….

    It’d seem that every time uncle sham wanted control of some geopolitical hot spots, bingo, some ‘natural disaster’ would befall the land !
    Hey presto !
    Turns out uncle already had its Carrier Battle Group ready at hand, to launch a humanitarian mission !

    [MORE]

    Peter Koenig….
    Argentina – Is the IMF Intervention helped by HAARP. ?

    Is Koenig a CT nut ?
    Not so fast !
    Ask Ian Fleming !
    ————————-

    911
    *even as the poisonous smoke was still rising from the ruins of the World Trade Center in September 2001, Bush giddily declared that “through my tears, I see opportunity.” We now know exactly what he saw: the opportunity to launch the long-determined invasion of Iraq*

    Africa,
    Post 911, US had boots on the ground all over the ‘dark continent’ , ostentially to fight Aq and co, actually to check and sabotage Chinese investments.
    When Chinese influx continues unabated, Washington wanted an excuse to boost its troop strength …
    then Ebola strike, uncle sham immediately sent in the 101 Airborne ....to fight the Ebola germs. !

    Afghan,
    October, 1999, the US declared political and economical sanctions against the Taliban for harboring Osama bin Laden.

    It is well-known that the refuge a Pashto tribe extends to a guest is a sacred honor, to be defended in blood, not to mention mere sanctions. Are the Afghans just too free-spirited to co-exist with the Empire of Hegemoney?

    Around this time, an unnatural series of natural disasters began to rain ruin on the poor folk of Afghanistan. First came three severe earthquakes, in February 1998, May 1998 and February 1999, killing tens of thousands. More damaging still was the drought, starting in the winter of 1998-1999 and deepening the following winter, uprooting several million war-tired refugees again. Afghanistan is in the throes of its worst drought for thirty years, if not the worst on record .

    Haiti quake,

    *The Street, an investment Web site, published an article, misleadingly titled “An Opportunity to Heal Haiti,” that lays out how U.S. corporations can cash in on the catastrophe. “Here are some companies,” they write, “that could potentially benefit: General Electric, Caterpillar, Deere, Fluor, Jacobs Engineering*

    iNdonesia,
    Condi Rice:
    Indon Tsunami Provided “Wonderful opportunity” for US

    myanmar….
    *With United States warships and air force planes at the ready, and over 1 million of Myanmar’s citizens left bedraggled, homeless and susceptible to water-borne diseases by Cyclone Nargis, the natural disaster presents an opportunity in crisis for the U.S*

    ph,
    *Earlier this month, negotiations between the United States and the Philippines to sharply increase the number of US troops regularly rotating through Philippine bases hit a snag. Critics claimed American demands, if met, would undermine Philippine sovereignty. Increasingly, it seemed, prospects for an accord this year looked shaky.

    Then typhoon Haiyan hit*
    bingo !
    uncle sham got its wish. !

    vietnam
    *By 1961, the cops of the world were in Vietnam, but President Kennedy’s representatives there thought a lot more cops were needed and knew the public and the president would be resistant to sending them. For one thing, you couldn’t keep up your image as the cops of the world if you sent in a big force to prop up an unpopular regime. What to do? What to do? Ralph Stavins, coauthor of an extensive account of Vietnam War planning, recounts that General Maxwell Taylor and Walt W. Rostow, ‘. . . wondered how the United States could go to war while appearing to preserve the peace. While they were pondering this question, Vietnam was suddenly struck by a deluge. It was as if God had wrought a miracle. American soldiers, acting on humanitarian impulses, could be dispatched to save Vietnam not from the Viet Cong, but from the floods*

    Tip of an iceberg.

    • Replies: @denk
  231. denk says:

    The above are quotations from various sources.

    • Replies: @Anon
  232. @jacques sheete

    The late Gary Allen wrote a prophetic book back in 1971 called None Dare Call It Conspiracy, and almost everything he wrote about has come to pass, kind of like Orwells 1984.

  233. Mulegino1 says:

    To an impartial observer, none of the “airliner” footage looks real. For example, what is shown in the most famous (Hezarkhani) clip- is not possible in the real world. A commercial Boeing 767 will not penetrate the massive steel perimeter columns and concrete floor pans. Virtually all of the aircraft would have been destroyed upon impact and fallen to the street below. As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, nose cones and fuselages of commercial airliners such as the 767 have been damaged, often severely, by collision with birds in flight. Anyone cursorily familiar with ballistics knows what it takes to penetrate 1/4″ by 1/4″ steel plating, and what is essentially a hollow, think skinned aluminum cylinder and a plastic or fiberglass nose cone will not do so.

    The official story cannot be true, unless one were to believe that:

    Amateur pilots with no time in type, some of whom could not land a single engine Cessna, could perform feats of aviation which experienced pilots with time in type could not duplicate in a professional simulator.

    Commercial airliners could fly at air speeds near sea level which the engines could not have provided sufficient thrust to maintain, given the air density at such altitudes.

    Hydrocarbon based office fires started by jet fuel had sufficient energy to disintegrate most of WTC 1 and 2’s steel and concrete, completely destroy the core of WTC 6, and demolish WTC 7- in addition to
    generating the longest burning, self-sustained structural fires in history: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1634-ground-zeros-fires-still-burning/#.VUFNrFU4nTZ

    As Conan Doyle put it: “When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”

    • Agree: apollonian
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Sbaker
  234. @DESERT FOX

    Thanks. I intend to look into it.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  235. Sean says:
    @Ians

    And didn’t penetrate more than a couple of inches? Kennedy was wearing a back brace not a flak jacket when he was shot with a WW2 military rifle from hundred yards away.

    It is overlooked, most obviously by the Union Terminal Co. rail control tower from where there the man on duty was watching, and if someone was planning on getting way it would be very risky. The witness said only people anywhere close were in the gap between the fence and the pergola at the time of the shots and there was no one behind the fence when the shots were fired. Fred is right , it would have been very difficult to fire at the moment another sniper opened fire from elsewhere.

    Here is the knoll and pergola (white structure).

    The point is not that it is impossible to shoot Kennedy from behind the fence, obviously with a willingness to risk near-to-inevitable capture anyone with a knowledge of the city, a small rifle and a newspaper giving the route could have made the attempt with non trivial odds of success. Attracting attention while waiting in position in full view of other people who were there like the rail tower including a couple of uniformed parking attendants would be a problem. However getting clean away without being would be very, very difficult because people were running at the knoll right after the shot as can be seen in the photo above, and a policeman arrived at the fence immediately after the shots. You could not just jump in a car and drive away unseen from that parking lot; a descriptionwould have been circulated, as there was on Oswald, which doubtless played a part in attracting Officer Tippit’s attention

    At 24 years old, all the drive and determination of youth was Oswald’s: he was willing to die trying. And by the way he had a years supply of penicillin, apparently having contracted a very tenacious case of gonorrhea as a Marine in Japan before he defected to the USSR aged 19 years’ old. By the way, John F. Kennedy was almost killed by repeatedly catching the clap because his doc Janet Travell gave him massive and repeated courses of antibiotics to the extent that developed a resistant strain, and the infection nearly killed him even with the steroids which he was also being overtreated with and that weakened his back. Kennedy did not do his vertebrae much good by banging a gaggle of German air stews at a pool party shortly before Dallas, and so was immobilized by his back brace in that limo after the first shot. As has been written, Oswald’s only co-conspirator in Dallas was a goddess weary of Kennedy’s recklessness. Lady Luck is as generous with her favours as JFK was with his cock.

  236. @jacques sheete

    Also the books by the late Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, JFK , the CIA and Vietnam and The Secret Team, I have these books and am rereading them for the second time, The Secret Team is about the CIA and how it rules the US for the high kabal that rules the world.

    Both these books are over 500 pages, but well worth the time to read, None Dare Call It Conspiracy is out of print, but can check on Amazon for used copies, it is 142 pages and is a very prophetic book.

    • Replies: @Sean
  237. Sean says:
    @Mulegino1

    His theorising is not bad at all as summarised in the book Mastermind: How to Think Like Sherlock Holmes, pp. 9-24, is iwhat “an observant man might learn by an accurate and systematic examination of all that came in his way” enabled one “to use observation to deduce meaning from an otherwise meaningless fact.” In contrast, the natural human tendency was to “spontaneously construct narratives, and firmly believe in their veracity”, which – as Konnikova writes – is exemplified by the cognitive style of Dr. Watson, in which “it is incredibly difficult to resist our desire to form narratives, to tell stories even if they may not be altogether correct, or correct at all.”

    Conan Doyle was not Sherlock Holmes though

    ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Edalji#Conan_Doyle

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/aug/10/houdini-and-conan-doyle-impossible-edinburgh-festival

  238. @Seraphim

    Good stuff. I was attempting to put together a brief synopsis of the research I’ve read regarding the inception of this ancient system. The Rosicrucians are one of the Babylonian influenced occult groups that have been elements of this thing called Illuminati. The Jesuits are another. The Christ bloodline you mention is claimed by one of the bloodline families, not all. Most of these families began with Judaic ancestry, but through the years they have married into Christian monarchies and prominent families. The Germanic/English Windsors you mention, are an example of this process.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Anon
  239. j2 says:

    Fred,

    About your objections to the WTC demolition theory.
    Here you have a simple demolition theory that avoids the problems you see. It is just that assume that the official theory is correct, that if the steel pillars in one floor are weakened by fire, then the building collapses. Then simply assume that the fire did not come from the plane hitting the building. It came from a demolition team (a small one) having put a thermite wrapping around every pillar. If you think the official theory is possible, then this is more than possible. Here you have a small text:
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2019/03/09/how-wtc-buildings-fell/

  240. Delmas says:
    @ThereisaGod

    Reed’s part of the problem for getting at the truth about 9/11. He should not be taken seriously.
    He’s obviously working for someone.

  241. Mulegino1 says:

    In contrast, the natural human tendency was to “spontaneously construct narratives, and firmly believe in their veracity”, which – as Konnikova writes – is exemplified by the cognitive style of Dr. Watson, in which “it is incredibly difficult to resist our desire to form narratives, to tell stories even if they may not be altogether correct, or correct at all.”

    And this “human tendency to construct narratives and firmly believe in their veracity” no matter how ridiculous or impossible is nowhere better exemplified in the official narrative of 9/11, constructed as it was upon the assumption of continued absolute somnolence and credulity on the part of the American (and world) public.

    Didn’t Holmes get his hackles raised when someone referred to Watson as “bovine”?

  242. Sean says:
    @DESERT FOX

    Prouty was the Mr X in JFK. The only trouble is in the aftermath Chinese intervention in Korea, that led to a fear and loathing of China, Eisenhower doubled down on the idea conventional warfare was wasteful and obsolete cut back the armed forces. The Army’s top general Matthew Ridgway was the ex commander in the humbling experience of Korea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Ridgway

    On August 17, 1953, Ridgway replaced General J. Lawton Collins as the Chief of Staff of the United States Army. After Eisenhower was elected president, he asked Ridgway for his assessment of United States military involvement in Vietnam in conjunction with the French. Ridgway prepared a comprehensive outline of the massive commitment that would be necessary for success, which dissuaded the President from intervening.

    General Maxwell Tailor who was brought back from retirement by Kennedy basically told him what he wanted to hear: that slow pressure (in the style of game theory) and counter insurgency could win in Vietnam. Having beaten Nixon by portraying the Eisenhower administration as having sat idly by as international Communism made gains, Kennedy was not willing either lose Vietnam or take the risks that might win it, but still the one who took the gamble of Vietnam as the Pentagon Papers made quite clear .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell_D._Taylor#Criticisms

    H.R. McMaster’s book Dereliction of Duty … McNamara and the civilians of the office of the secretary of defense were firmly behind the idea of graduated pressure—that is, to escalate pressure slowly against North Vietnam in order to demonstrate U.S. resolve. The Joint Chiefs, however, strenuously disagreed with this and believed that if the US got involved further in Vietnam, it should be with the clear intention of winning and through the use of overwhelming force.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  243. macilrae says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Why do you waste your precious time reading a crap-pot of nonsense, still less in actually writing back several times in response – instead of getting on with your undoubtedly busy life?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  244. Sean says:

    “When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”

    But in a A Study in Scarlet Holmes says the precise opposite

    When a fact appears to be opposed to a long train of deductions, it invariably proves to be capable of bearing some other interpretation.

    • Replies: @j2
  245. Sean says:
    @Anon

    Perhaps he is one of the victims of the 60s.

    Jane Fonda as ‘Miss Army Recruiting’ in 1962.

  246. j2 says:
    @Sean

    They are not opposite. The second one says that if in a far developed theory there remains a fact that seems to be in contradiction, it (invariably here means practically always though not necessarily so) is a misunderstood fact and allows a different interpretation. Meaning that if long deductions were seen correct, this remaining fact is probably misunderstood.

    There is also the third rule always repeated in these stories: the most unusual facts are the most fruitful. They allow the smallest number of explanations, which makes it easier to check the possibilities.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  247. Harbinger says:

    The fact that very few people, if any at all who like to pillory and castigate the conspiracy theorists, wouldn’t even be able to tell you where the term came from, pretty much sums up their overwhelming ignorance and misplaced ridicule of those who actually have common sense.

    I am of course implying the CIA’s creation of the term ‘Conspiracy Theorist’ in 1967, an obvious ploy (we conspiracy theorists see) to shut down anyone getting close to the truth. In other words “Keep looking at the wizard and ignore the silly little man behind the curtain”.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-23/1967-he-cia-created-phrase-conspiracy-theorists-and-ways-attack-anyone-who-challenge

    History is pretty much the result of two or more people, colluding in secret to benefit, to the overall detriment of another/others. For example are we really so stupid as to believe that WW1 came about because of the assassination of an Archduke in Sarajevo? We, conspiracy theorists, know that war is money and control. Bankers lend money to governments, at high interest, to wage war in foreign lands. They don’t give a flying monkey’s poo, whether millions die. Psychopathy tends to have that trait.

    Ironically, pretty much pre war everyone was a conspiracy theorist in that they knew what was going on, through word of mouth and very rarely did they believe any of the nonsense written in the print media, then far more honest about life, with journalists of some integrity, compared to the lying, bought, heavily controlled msm, staffed by media whores who write what they’re told to.
    I actually laugh when I think of the movie The Bourne Ultimatum where Bourne gets in touch with the journalist Ross, investigating the Jason Bourne Conspiracy. Ross, as many who will have seen the film will know, works for the Guardian newspaper, a heavily controlled, government propaganda, communist rag. You wouldn’t find a shred of integrity within any of the journalists within, past or present. This film, however, was a great advertisement for it and certainly gained more customers, who ignorantly believed that the Guardian newspaper is one of principle.

    Every single conspiracy, other than the silly alien brainwashing propaganda rubbish, I’ve pretty much looked into and found the overwhelming majority to be based in truth. The whole, alien rubbish, is a deliberate CIA/NASA promoted red herring. One should look up Project Blue Beam for more information. This was done to lump ALL people who believed in conspiracy under one ‘tin foil’ hat. When I’m called a tin hat, conspiracy theorist I always reply that I only deal with reality, not science fiction, but tin-hat-conspiracy-theorist rolls off the tongue easily, especially amongst those who haven’t a clue what they’re on about.

  248. @Sean

    The late senator Mike Mansfield from my state of Montana was a close friend of JFKs and related that JFK was going to withdraw all US advisors from Vietnam in 1965, that among other reasons ie JFKs executive order 1110 to bypass the FED and print non debt currency got him killed by the high kabal, Prouty goes into this in his two books JFK the CIA and Vietnam and The Secret Team.

    The zionist who rule America wanted a war for profit and so they got their war as they always do and now the WARS are perpetual for the profit of the zionist banking kabal and the MIC and in the mideast for the benefit of Israel.

    • Replies: @Sean
  249. @jacques sheete

    Thanks, I see Amazon has some copies of a 2013 reprint of the book, but your pointing out that it is available on line is even better, thanks.

  250. @DESERT FOX

    I have long had a copy and credit it with being the first one to open my eyes to the alternate reality that we live in.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  251. @NoseytheDuke

    The same with me, I was at my mothers house back in 1973 and saw this book on the kitchen table, asker her where she got it and she said the Vicar left it for her to read [ we are Lutherans ] and she said the Lutheran church was encouraging the Pastors and Vicars to read it. I took it home and read it and it opened my eyes and like the forward to the book said, anyone reading this book will never look at the world the same again.

    Over the years I bought copies and gave to my friends and relatives and still have one copy left that I reread at times, it was a real eye opener.

  252. Sean says:
    @DESERT FOX

    After the shock of the Korean War, which dragged on until terminated by Eisenhower’s threat to use battlefield thermonuclear weapons, there was (contrary to Oliver Stone’s JFK) no one in the Pentagon who wanted to fight another South East Asian war against a Chinese backed Communist regieme. The Pentagon Papers are quite clear on the point that President Kennedy was responsible for the key decision over Vietnam, and LBJ simply continued his predecessors policy. Kennedy always talked about not sending troops, and getting out because he wanted to win. Withdrawing without victory was not an option for someone who said he would bear any burden, make any sacrifice ect ect.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1971/07/01/archives/pentagon-papers-study-reports-kennedy-made-gamble-into-a-broad.html

    The Pentagon’s study of the Vietnam war concludes that President John F. Kennedy transformed the “limited‐risk gamble” of the Eisenhower Administrtion into a “broad commitment” to prevent Communist domination of South Vietnam.

    Although Mr. Kennedy resisted pressures for putting American ground combat units into South Vietnam, the Pentagon analysts say, he took a series of actions that significantly expanded the American military and political involvement in Vietnam

    Kennedy bet on the efficacy of counter-insurgency, which was supposed to be highly economical but the North Vietnamese could always switch to a NVA main force strategy and the neutrality of Laos meant South Vietnam had an open flank. The only way to win in Vietnam would have been to call out the reserves and escalate precipitously.

    Instead, Kennedy sent 400 American Green Beret counter-insurgency troops to South Vietnam, he wanted to have his cake and eat it. Kennedy was not willing to make the sacrifices needed to obtain his objectives, he did not want to risk a land war with China or a domestic one with US Jewry. He wanted to do good things like defeat communism aggression in South Vietnam and stop Israel getting a bomb, but it just was not feasible. So like many before him he found himself continuing to say what had got him elected while actually ordering the opposite policy to anyone that paid attention to his rhetoric would have believed he was doing.

    Private life is real life, so it can be an example of the dichotomy. Kennedy took a 19 year old virgin on a tour of the White House that went straight to the marital bed what he removed her clothes pushed her down and had sex with her without so much as as by your leave. He would be lucky not to get accused of rape nowadays. Now you can quote his marriage vows, loving family life and what he said to Jackie, but the man wanted to have his cake and eat it.

  253. Sean says:

    I have read that book and if I remember rightly it says nothing about false flag assassinations and terror attacks, its about world government, and international elites. The NAFTA superhighway sort of thing, It is too coherent and logical to legitimately be called a conspiracy theory in the same way the Mark Lane and David Ray Griffin ideas are.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  254. Seraphim says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    I very much hope that you don’t put ‘Da Vinci Code’ before sound history. The Christ was not married to Mary Magdalen (or to anyone for that matter) and did not have children. The ‘Blood lines’ stuff is a hoax and the real anti-Christian ‘conspiracy theory’.

  255. Stew11 says:

    Oh yes and of course American naval ships were fired on in the gulf of Tonkin by the Vietnamese. Thus the war vote carried with two exceptions Wayne Morris and Ernest Gruening. Both eventually lost their jobs. Gruening over Vietnam and AIPAC got Morris. No conspiracy here Reed

    • Replies: @Sean
  256. @macilrae

    It’s none of your business what I choose to do with my precious time. I only work a few hours a month but it’s very highly paid work and I enjoy what I do. I have plenty of free time to do lots of other things which includes both reading and commenting here. Deal with it.

  257. Sean says:
    @follyofwar

    Three conspiracies in a 1,900 word essay seems like two too many

    One son of RFK skied into a tree, another (who overturned a jeep leaving his girlfriend in a wheelchair) overdosed. Now if you mention that JFK Junior is killed in a private plan without mentioning the other lethal accidents in that Kennedy generation you are omitting relevant data.

    With perhaps hundreds of books written on the subject, surely there are other possible scenarios which he blew off. Fred’s argument seems to be especially weak here.

    In any particular case that has been the subject of a conspiracy article here you could say it was possible, but when you look at them all together it is indeed a conspiracy theory style of thinking that is salient. Fred’s article is about a that type of thinking

  258. Miggle says:

    I suppose everyone has noticed that the very idea of a conspiracy theory and the denunciations of … (what?) is purely and simply a device for suppressing independent thought on any subject. Think the way you’re told to think. Let the MSM be your guide. If you think outside their box you are a conspiracy theorist.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  259. Sean says:
    @Stew11

    Eisenhower told Kennedy when he was president elects that he would probabally have to send troops to Vietnam, and indeed JFK sent 400 Green Berets to Vietnam. Before America entered WW2 Roosevelt secretly ordered the US Navy to attack U boats on sight, then lied about it.

  260. @Sean

    Idiot! The book, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, refers to the real conspiracy that is behind the goal of world domination leading to the actual events that you foolishly and disingenuously refer to as “conspiracy theories”. Mark Lane and David Ray Griffin like Gary Allen, among others, have made good faith attempts to inform and enlighten the general public with regards to these events.

    • Replies: @Anon
  261. Sbaker says:
    @Patricus

    I rather enjoyed Fred’s commentary and mostly agree with him. I have more than a few good friends that assisted with the 911 rescue and cleanup operations. Fred does a good job pointing out the absurd contentions of the CTs and the people I know that were there, and the 6 people my wife’s college roommate knew that went down in the mass murder, have little doubt about who did it. If anything, the old media has done a disservice to those that were murdered and to the country, by downplaying the political movement called a religion of peace. This creation by the CTs of so many unsupported “what ifs,” then we see the real truth is simply beyond rational thought. The same goes for the TWA 800. I know well one of the investigators that spent months working on it. Thanks Fred for s dose of common sense.

    • Disagree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @anon
  262. @Lady in Red

    For a while I thought you might be one of the rare sceptical careful CTs on UR and then this made me wonder, given your unqualified allegation about Obama’s paternity…
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreams_from_My_Real_Father?wprov=sfla1

    • Replies: @Lady in Red
  263. @republic

    Would you bother after reading this

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreams_from_My_Real_Father?wprov=sfla1

    and considering that Obama himself has obviously never given any credence to the idea that he is not of Kenyan Luo descent.

  264. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    And say a bit about you but nothing evidentiary about anything else.

  265. @j2

    Would you care to spell our the logic of your final paragraph and specify the conditions necessary for its being true. After all a usual fact might be that something that looked dense fell straight down for just the one simple reason: gravity.

    • Replies: @j2
  266. Anon[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    OMG! I have just sampled “None Dare Call it Conspiracy” from one of JS’s links and if that satisfies your intellectual standards!!!!

  267. @Seraphim

    Fascinating even though it doesn’t support Miggle’s frolic.

  268. @Miggle

    Nice. I wonder how many you will catch. Just to be sure I did check that Jinnah returned to India from London in 1935 and supported a separate Muslim state from at latest 1940. 🙂

  269. We’ve been trolled.

    • Replies: @Biff
  270. Mattle says:

    Haha Fred Reed is an idiot.
    I said so all along.

  271. @Sbaker

    He is, above all, sane. Not quite sensible perhaps. That would be too much for these threads – and might stop him being funny. I wonder at times about his teases, as they are I think, whatever his views really are, about evolution and natural selection. Still, it does allow him to point to the generallt dysgenic breeding of current hominids.

    • Replies: @Sean
  272. Sean says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Fred is a thoroughgoing Lamarckian, but then so is almost every politician and thinker in the mainstream and out of it too. Humans, like other organisms, have evolved as biodegradable vehicles to copy and project DNA into the future. Who believes that?
    .

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  273. j2 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Would you care to spell our the logic of your final paragraph and specify the conditions necessary for its being true. After all a usual fact might be that something that looked dense fell straight down for just the one simple reason: gravity.”

    I got the Collected works of Sherlock Holmes as a gift and just reread all these stories. This is simply a rule that Sherlock states in many places.

    It is not necessarily true for any logical reason, but let us take sudoku. In sudoku you try to find the next step. Most sudoku puzzles have a logical next step but a booklet sudoku for experts has about 1/3 such cases when there is no unique step. Then your best move is to find such a place that allows only two alternatives. You check, one must be correct, the other one does not solve the puzzle. To generalize from this, if the clues do not logically lead somewhere, find a clue that has the smallest number of realistic explanations and check them. Common events typically allow many explanations. For instance, a necktie of the main suspect is found from a crime scheme. It is rather common to lose things, thus this is a common event and not decisive. While a rare event in this story was that the guard dog did not bark. It had only one explanation: the thief was known to the dog. The unusual event solved the case as there were only very few possible explanations for it.

    I apply to the JFK case. There is an unlikely event that the rifle in the TSBD has a faulty sight. We ask why would a sniper shoot a president in a moving car using a rifle with a faulty sight? No top sniper of a professional team would do it. A lone nut, like Oswald in the official theory, might be so stupid and lucky.

    But it was a conspiracy as the Dictabelt shows more than three shots and has suggestive talk periods. As it was a conspiracy Oswald was not the sniper as he was not good enough and besides, he was seen downstairs just after the event. The original intended sniper probably was Jean Souetre or Lucien Sarti, as intelligence data and confessions suggest these. Oswald was an infiltrator to this conspiracy, a part of the so called abort team, a concept suggested by confessions. As the infiltrator of the abort team Oswald took the rifle to the building and probably destroyed the sight so that the intended sniper could not hit JFK even if he brought live rounds with himself and was not stopped before shooting. There were two casings and one live round in the TSBD. Only two shots may have been fired. The Dictabelt shows two impulses at the time the Zapruder film has a pause. That is probably the time when two dummies were shot. The reason for firing them was to frame Oswald. Thus, the rifle with a defective sight was not used for killing JFK. But JFK was killed. Thus, there had to be another team that killed JFK. Infiltration by the abort team was found out by the conspirators. Soutre or Sarti did not come to TSBD. They used a B-Plan. This is the long train of deductions. All steps fit together so far and they are all logical, like in Sherlock Holmes, I just do not write all details here.

    But there remains checking if there could be another explanation for the rare event. That is, is there a way that the defective rifle was used for killing JFK? I tried to invent a scenario where an experienced sniper could have killed JFK with the faulty rifle. As it was a conspiracy (more than three shots in the Dictabelt and Oswald seen downstairs), the sniper was not Oswald. If the sniper did not know that the sight was faulty he would have missed. It is clear that Oswald could not openly give a rifle that has a faulty sight to a sniper. The sniper would have rejected it. Thus,
    let us assume that the sniper knew that Oswald intended to destroy the sight, so he would have to shoot with a rifle that may shoot to any direction. Theoretically he could have corrected the error if he got signs. There was the Umbrella man maybe giving signs. In order to have sign man you have to know in advance that the sight is incorrectly adjusted. I proposed this alternative, but it seemed too difficult. The problem was that this plan is idiotic. Someone like Sarti would not agree to shoot a president relying on some Umbrella man. If you know that the rifle has an incorrect sight, just do not use it. Get another shooter with another rifle. Therefore the only conclusion is that nobody shot JFK with that rifle.

    Thus, the shots from the back came from another building. The likely candidate is the Tex-Dal building as it is named by James Files, the man who confessed being the shooter from the Grassy Knoll. When Iris showed references that Tex-Dal had Zionistic tenants, such as Zionist, Freemason Abraham Zapruder, I concluded that the case is solved. And yes, Zionists/Freemasons are implied.

    As a summary. The rule of Holmes is not always true for logical reasons, but it is often helpful.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Wizard of Oz
  274. Biff says:
    @Carroll Price

    We’ve been trolled.

    Uh, Yea!

    A very telling troll in how easy it is to get people triggered.

  275. Sbaker says:
    @Mulegino1

    Momentum: 205300000 lb-ft/s . This is a fair estimate of the energy of a 400,000 lb aircraft moving at 350 mph. Show me your calculation that opposes such a dynamic force?

  276. jrkrideau says:
    @Rabbit

    USS Vincennes was at the very edge of a full-blown war. I must have missed the war being held just off New York City.

    The cover-up was so complete that I have seen videos of the bridge as the bridge watch cheered. I was at a wedding reception in Canada and heard about the f-up probably about 10-12 hours after it happened. . Some cover-up.

  277. jrkrideau says:
    @warbling j turpitude

    The idea is nuts but, as for the Vicennes, it was ” operating way the f**k out there in the Persian Gulf” where there would be foreign military vessels on high alert, hundreds of oil tankers praying and watching their radar screens plus huge numbers of shore-based radars and monitoring stations focused on the Gulf. Oh, I almost forgot the US AWACs flying out of the airbase at Dahran.

    In the Gulf, all you would have to do is shut up the Saudi military and the Saudi air traffic controllers–probably civilian, the Emirati, Kuwaiti and Omani equivalents, their Iranian equivalents who might not be happy that the US had shot down one of their airliners, probably the crews from British, French and other naval vessels, the crews (of a few dozen nationalities) of a few oil tankers, and so on.

    I agree that the idiotic idea that the US navy shot down a plane off New York City is just “slightly” bonkers but, compared to the Gulf, the area off NYC would have been like a back ally at two in the morning.

    If the captain of the Vincennes sneezed, it was probably reported to Tehran, Bagdad, and Riyadh within 5 minutes. /s

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  278. Sean says:
    @j2

    Oswald was an infiltrator to this conspiracy

    A man famous for having defected to the USSR who was a public supporter of Cuba and sent for a rifle with an alias that was almost ‘Fidel’ (and there are things, true or false, about his commie connections still being kept classified by the CIA). No conspiracy to kill the US president would have touched someone with Oswald’s known background with a barge-pole. Unless the real aim of the conspiracy was to start WW3.

    • Replies: @j2
  279. @j2

    Thank you for putting that considerable effort into expanding your point even if, at 2 am I am not feeling like dealing with it analytically and critically.

    It does seem to me that there is a problem, if not of begging the question, then of definition of the alternative scenarios.

    Thus “He was bitten by a dog” allows for many explanations. But if you just happen to know a little more and know that “He was bitten by a normally very friendly and quiet dog” or “He was bitten repeatedly around the face and neck by a large savage dog” you are almost certain to narrow the relevant explanatory possibilities.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Anon
  280. @Sean

    They don’t even believe that you can’t hope to spend the dollar on X that you have just promised to waste on Y.

  281. Wade says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    And don’t forget who was actually on trial in that video: Clay Shaw, director of Permindex, and who was the producer of the film Israeli arms smuggler Arnon Milchan who stole US nuclear technology on behalf of Israel. Israel’s acquisition of nuclear tech and material was the prime move of the JFK assassination to begin with.

    Contrary to this, Stone’s JFK insinuates that the US MIC is behind the assassination and states the unfounded rumor that Permindex was a front for Nazis. This has now been patently proven to be false. Permindex had direct ties to Rothschilds. This can now be definitely proven with Permindex own internal documents between it’s primary shareholder Louis Bloomfield and his handlers in which Rothschild is specifically named (the specific Rothschild banker’s name escapes me at the moment). Louis Bloomfield named Rome-based Giorgio Mantello –a Romanian Jew– as the “the guiding genius” behind Permindex.

    If I dig hard enough I could locate the internal documents of Permindex that prove the Rothschild link. Not sure if you or anyone else are interested though. In the meantime, here’s a good overview:

    https://mikepiperreport.com/Articles_Archive/AmericanFreePress/AFP2013/Michael_Collins_Piper_AFP_2013-11-18_No._46_Rothschild-Israeli_Ties_to_JFK.html

    • Replies: @Anon
  282. denk says:
    @denk

    [ex] Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel’s mantra
    *no crisis should go to waste*

    As you can see, uncle sham is a very sharp opportunist,
    ever ready to take advantage of a ‘natural’ disaster.
    whether its a tsunami, typhoon, earth quake, pandemic.
    Not once, not twice, but dozens of times.

    now the big question…..
    did gawd wrought a miracle,er, disaster, every time uncle needs one ?
    or just the satan playing its haarp ?

    Apply Ian Fleming’s fundamental law of probability.
    ‘Once is happenstance, twice is………’

  283. The continuing honest search for the truth is the indicator that separates real human beings from the rest. For example, such a quest is evident in C. S. Lewis’ book “Mere Christianity.”

  284. denk says:

    On military/disaster drills that turn live/….

    Exhibit A
    Indon tsunami.

    While everybody sent hospital ships, medics to tsunami devastated Aceh, uncle sham dispatched TWO
    NUCLEAR CARRIER BATTLE GROUPS, bristling with nukes enough to turn half of the planet into glass, fighter jets, marines……

    ‘ As if by magic, the Pentagon managed to have two battle groups ready to sail at an instant’s notice from Hong Kong and Guam during the normally chaotic Christmas to New Year period. Crikey! Military discipline has come a hell of a long way since my day, when everyone including the ship’s cat was sleeping it off at some highly questionably hostelry or another. Not these 10,000+ Americans though, who must have been standing rigidly to attention beside their hammocks day and night, tugging furiously at their forelocks whenever an officer of NCO came in sight.

    The next bit was superbly orchestrated, because it took place at sea, far away from the prying eyes of dock spies or imaginary KGB agents. But oops, first you have to know who was involved. Out of Hong Kong rushed team one, comprised of the nuclear-powered USS Abraham Lincoln and her escort vessels, while the far more interesting team two rushed out of Guam, led by the USS Bonhomme Richard, a marine amphibious assault carrier crammed to the gunwales with gun-toting wooden tops. And that is not all, believe me, because the Bonhomme Richard is in fact leading a veritable armada known as “Expeditionary Strike Group 5”.

    Flagship USS Bonhomme Richard is accompanied by the U.S.S. Duluth, an amphibious transport dock vessel; the USS Rushmore, a landing ship dock; the guided missile cruiser USS Bunker Hill, guided missile destroyer USS Milius, and the guided missile frigate USS Thach. To take care of the underwater side of things they are joined by the nuclear hunter-killer submarine USS Pasadena, while the U.S. Coast Guard’s high-endurance cutter Munro is also tagging along, presumably to deal with Asian Customs and Excise.

    Now then, though ‘Strike Group 5’ may be toting enough nuclear weapons to destroy half of the known world, and the title is perhaps lacking when viewed from a strictly humanitarian perspective, engineer chief Staff Sgt. Julio C. Dominguez says otherwise: “The Marine Service Support Group has been preparing for a humanitarian mission of this type for about 12 months now, and is more prepared for an actual mission”. Well, OK chief, but didn’t you ask why you were being trained for a mysterious humanitarian mission a year before it actually happened, especially when your day job is normally shooting Muslims full of holes? ‘

    http://www.reformation.org/joevialls.html

  285. klokman says:

    What a fatuous question, Fred.

    Lunch will served here shortly also.

    Please take an extended siesta. On us.

  286. j2 says:
    @Sean

    “No conspiracy to kill the US president would have touched someone with Oswald’s known background with a barge-pole. ”

    You are naive. Anything that works can be used.

    Oswald was not the shooter as he was downstairs but he went home, took a gun and a false ID, so he was in the conspiracy. What was his role in the conspiracy? He was shot and he told he was a patsy. The rifle had a defective sight. Somebody took it there and Oswald was the natural person having access to the building. I suggest you make your own scenario instead of arguing with weak arguments against a proposed scenario. It is a weak argument to claim that Oswald had a Communistic past as every infiltrator needs a convincing past in order to infiltrate and many infiltrators originally did support some idea but were blackmailed to change sides. To get a spy take some insider, bribe, blackmail or threaten him and force him to work for your side – that is a classic. Considering this, and the information that his girlfriend though Oswald as in the abort team, I think he was an infiltrator.

    About the past, do you not know or any organized crime guy who later acted as a police infiltrator. His past often was just the issue to force him to work for the police. Or do you not know of Communists who turned to be American spies, or of American military people, who turned to be Russian spies? I mean, for an infiltrator a believable past is an asset in doing the infiltration. As for CIA not using questionable people, they have used mafia people, ex-Nazis, anything that works.

    • Replies: @Sean
  287. j2 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Thus “He was bitten by a dog” allows for many explanations. But if you just happen to know a little more and know that “He was bitten by a normally very friendly and quiet dog” or “He was bitten repeatedly around the face and neck by a large savage dog” you are almost certain to narrow the relevant explanatory possibilities”

    Surely you are correct here. In Sherlock Holmes stories the idea is to explain an apparent paradox: according to Doyle’s logic crime cases with very usual features are the hardest ones to solve, while if the crime has very unusual features and looks mysterious, these mysterious features make it easier to solve as there are much fewer possible scenarios that fit to them. Naturally these stories are simply stories and I do not propose Sherlock Holmes as a guide book for criminology. But I think is is a nice idea: find the most unusual feature and start building a scenario from that. Let’s say, the most unusual feature of the WTC is the high temperatures long time after the event. That is strange. Start from explaining that, it will narrow your alternatives to only one: there has to be something more than petrol from the plane and office stuff from the building. Something that burns with a very high temperature, as it had to have burned rather fast but still remained very warm. Where did it come from? If it was something in the building, the official version would tell what it was, they would not hide it. Sherlock Holmes built scenarios, and that is a good way. Not thinking of all objections to whatever. Find a scenario that fits all facts.

  288. @Tsigantes

    “Moving beyond the immediate American context, no doubt he believes that NATO’s war on Syria was an internal civil war (his govt says so) and that the regime change in Ukraine was a genuine internal affair (his govt says so). ”

    really?

    I’ve never heard the Mexican government opine on either matter.

  289. buckwheat says:

    This new woke Fred sucks, I miss the old Fred before he went senile.

  290. @Wizard of Oz

    Wizard….. I admit I’ve found “Dreams from my real father” to be the most credible of the swirling accusations around the mystery that is Barry:

    Why ever would a person born in 1960 not have easy access to his birth certificate? That’s bizarre.

    Where are all his college records?

    How can you be editor of the Harvard Law Review — and never publish a word?

    Why doesn’t anyone at Columbia, from profs to students remember him — at all?

    How many social security numbers does he really have?

    Why are there so many black holes in his young life? Where was he travelling and why?

    The book certainly does not answer all the questions, but we do know his mother went to college — minutes after his birth — in Washington. We know that Obama Sr and Stanley Ann never lived together at all and that she was a rebellious women when her parents dragged her to Hawaii….. And we know she knew Frank Marshall Davis. It seems like Occam’s Razor to me.

    I don’t have answers for the other questions and…. …..smile….. I am not sure I want to turn over those rocks. …..Lady in Red

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  291. Seraphim says:
    @Nonny

    I think that’s a good idea to stick to the facts and use words in their proper sense.
    Illumination:
    – Divine illumination, the process of human thought needs to be aided by divine grace
    – Illuminationism, c.q. Illuminationist philosophy, a doctrine according to which the process of human thought needs to be aided by divine grace
    – Light (theology), Illumination in theological terms, is spiritual information or wisdom, as transmitted through spiritual means such as through divine presence.

    The Divine Light is the Word:
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth” (John 1:1-14).
    It is the Light, or Glory, or Majesty that the Apostles Peter, James and John saw at the Transfiguration of the Lord on Mount Tabor.

    Lucifer means strictly the morning star, the planet Venus. In Greek it was called Phosphoros (bearer of Light) or Eosphoros (bearer of the Dawn). This is the star that St.Peter talks about:
    “For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (1Peter 1:16-21).

    Lucifer is not the fallen angel who opposes God, Satana.

  292. I must admit, as fact-free as this poorly written essay is, I have adored the old Fred Reed who takes on the Theory of Evolution quite well.

    Why don’t you bone up, again, on that, Fred, and write something new and interesting, there? …..Lady in Red

  293. Sean says:
    @j2

    Anything that works to start WW3 would not have been used unless starting WW3 was the objective. Have you ever heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis in which Kennedy humiliated the USSR and Cuba? That was over what Cuba was merely doing in Cuba. Any hint that the President had been assassinated in Dallas by a Cuban/ Soviet plot or encouragement of a lone assassin could have led the American public to force the country into war against the USSR. There were enough connections between Oswald, the USSR and Cuba to start WW3 if the public were not educated up to an understanding that he had not been any kind of Soviet/ Cuban agent. It was all handled very carefully.

    Unless starting WW3 was the ultimate objective of the plot , involving Oswald in way any would NOT have worked: it would have been counter-productive. And note that whether those connections were real or because Oswald was part of a CIA fake defector program, the fact remains he was known had defected to the USSR and been a supporter of Cuba. The Warren Commission’s remit was to prove no conspiracy, but the type of conspiracy it was to discredit was not anything like the ones conspiracy theorist have been postulating. That was not a worry back then. What was frightening to the Deep State that the American Public would demand revenge on communist powers.

    The Warren Commission was 100% trying to allay fears that there was any FOREIGN COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy. They minimized and obscured all connections between Oswald, the USSR / Cuba. There were some things that the Warren Comission were not even told about by the CIA that we now know concerned pieces of intelligence on Oswald and Cuba /the USSR. Among these may be that while in the Cuban Consulate in Mexico Oswald had offered to kill JFK. It was only the other year that Trump got it declassified that Oswald had called a KGB covert action department official. And there are still things that Trump has been told cannot be revealed about JFK, they are thought to relate to what was going on in the Cuban Consulate when Oswald was there. The only conclusion is that Oswald was far too dangerous to be allowed into any conspiracy that did not want to blow the world up (even if it was actually a counter conspiracy operation that he was really working for).

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @j2
    , @j2
  294. @j2

    Good points. Jet fuel is more like kerosine than petrol and burns at a lower temp.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Sbaker
  295. As one of URs more fluent and, most precious, even presumptively sane commenters please check yourself on, particularly, the Obama Jr Harvard record. I say that because of a disappointed old Princetonian banker/venture capitalist of my acquaintance who said, sadly, a few years into the Tea Party eruption, that he wished he could support the Republicans still but was supporting Obama. He told me that he had been told by Prof Lawrence Tribe that he had been present when Obama was elected editor of the Harvard Law Review and that he had been simply outstanding (or close equivalent words). Aha! The old cynic put it to my informant a couple of years later that I thought I recognised the scene. I recalled a whole lot of newbie males voting for the one female and recognised that what was happening was that the males did not want their rivals – males to get a step ahead of them on the ladder. At Harvard I intuited there would be a lot of ambitious white males all wanting the best offers from Wall Street or from SCOTUS judges for clerkships. Why not be virtuously diversy when voting and, at the same time, avoid putting a real rival ahead of them? Anyway, the basic part of all that says it is nonsense to make too much of a mystery of Barry’s past 🙂

    • Replies: @Lady in Red
  296. @Sean

    Sane reasoning with the desirable Occam touch to boot.

  297. @j2

    I shall toy with that thought “find the most unusual feature and start building a scenario from there”. Thank you starting with that thought and playing with it could bevinteresting, even productive. Immediate problem: unusual in who’s opinion – by what standards – in what context. E.g. “You know what struck me was that the dog whose barking alerted people to the presence of a dead body had a collar on it with a brass plate embossed in Vietnamese”. “Er… Sir, the dog belonged to the dead man’s landlord and he was given it by his Vietnamese mother-in-law….”

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @j2
  298. @jrkrideau

    In your downplaying of the relative activity level near NY compared with the Gulf you are risking offending those who think NORAD could and should have been able to deal promptly with hijacking Arabs. Mind you, up to a point you could rely on the rather Aspergery attention to detail on this matter of Kratoklastes before he runs off the rails.

    • Replies: @Sean
  299. Sparkon says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I shall toy with that thought “find the most unusual feature and start building a scenario from there”

    Everythng about 9/11 was unusual. What was “most unusual” about it is merely a matter of opinion, don’t you think? You would be engaging in a flawed process to start from that false premise. In fact, there is nothing about 9/11 that could be called a usual, normal, routine, or everyday occurrence.

    The best plan is to stick with, and build from, what is known incontrovertibly about 9/11.

    For example, we know for a fact that the entire WTC complex was destroyed on Black Tuesday, September 11, 2001. At least some of us know that two 125 ton airplanes couldn’t knock down two 500,000 ton buildings, let alone destroy the entire WTC complex, even before we get to the obvious CGI that was broadcast live that day.

    What put the big hole in Bldg. 6? May I suggest you “toy with that thought” for a bit.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  300. denk says:

    War games/disaster drill/ terror drills that ‘turns live’…

    Off hand I can think of the following,,,….

    Indon tsunami,
    Haiti earthquake,
    LOndon 7/7 ,
    911 Norad air defence ‘exercise’,
    Mh370 flew right into the ‘eye’ of a massive air sea ‘war game’,
    Mh 17, ditto,
    Brit/French ‘war game’ turned live into Libya invasion.

    Tip of an iceberg,

    Ian Fleming’s law sez,……..

  301. @Sparkon

    I don’t know about building 6 but it does occur to me as odd that you should say that “the entire WTC complex was destroyed” when it plainlyvwas not. Also, denying that the planes could “knock down” the 500,000 ton buildings verges on trollery. Who has ever suggested they knocked down the buildings?. Are you too sick of the issue to get serious?

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @NoseytheDuke
  302. anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:

    Whenever I see criticism of 9/11 conspiracies the focus is always on the outlandish, in this case controlled demolitions.

    I don’t know for sure but it’s pretty hard to trust my (American) government with anything these days. Then you look at just who benefited from 9/11 and no, that is not just Israel and/or Saudi Arabia. A lot of money was made.

    Ultimately you’re a conspiracy theorist so long as you think contrary to the official story.

    • Replies: @Sean
  303. Sparkon says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “I don’t know about building 6…”

    Then perhaps you should read more, comment less until you are more fully educated about 9/11. WTC 6 was an eight-story high rise that sustained two holes that extend the entire height of the building:

    Building 6

    “…it does occur to me as odd that you should say that “the entire WTC complex was destroyed” when it plainly v was not.”

    (my edits for clarity)

    Plainly? By most accounts, the entire WTC complex was destroyed.

    In New York, 6.5 hectares of buildings were directly affected when the Twin Towers collapsed. The entire seven-building complex, which included the offices of more than 400 companies and several federal, state and local government agencies, was destroyed.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/9-11-anniversary-what-was-lost-in-the-damage-1.1123528

    The extent of the WTC destruction can be seen in this overhead photo taken from a NOAA aircraft on 9/23/2001. The black hole in Building 6 can be seen at the very center of this image.

    Link to big 11,300×11,300 pixel file:

    Who has ever suggested they knocked down the buildings?

    Aw. Did the “Wizard” get all flummoxed by my colorful language? Or are you just playing dumb?

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  304. Sean says:
    @anonymous

    Yes. Any false flag attack terror attack covert operation has enough problems just fooling people about the culprits without adding an element that is impossible. Unless getting people to believe in something that was actually impossible (non controlled demolitions WTC collapse on 9/11) was the real objective, why on Earth would the conspirators decide to use the totally implausible method of a plane crashing into each tower, compromising their structural integrity, and bringing them down? That is not to say that if you had asked experts before 9/11, that they would have been of the opinion a single plane could bring down the a WTC tower.

    Then you look at just who benefited from 9/11 and no, that is not just Israel and/or Saudi Arabia. A lot of money was made.

    The 9/11 attack could easily have caused a sudden recession though.

  305. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles

    Thank God, a voice of reason about the murder of JFK.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  306. j2 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Immediate problem: unusual in who’s opinion – by what standards – in what context. E.g. “You know what struck me was that the dog whose barking alerted people to the presence of a dead body had a collar on it with a brass plate embossed in Vietnamese”. “Er… Sir, the dog belonged to the dead man’s landlord and he was given it by his Vietnamese mother-in-law….”

    I will give one more deep though from Sherlock Holmes as reading 2000 pages of these stories must give some thoughts. There is a story starting as
    Watson: “I was thinking…”
    Holmes: “Leave thinking to me.”

    That more or less explains it. Unusual in the opinion of the expert. Non-experts only mess up.

  307. j2 says:
    @Sean

    I do not get your point. Assume Oswald was originally a Communist, moved to the USSR and came back as a disillusioned anti-Communist, went to the CIA, was recruted and sent to spy Cubans, found out a plot of assassination of Kennedy and informed of it. Unfortunately, someone in the CIA was in that assassination plot, so the conspirators took plan B and decided to frame Oswald. How does that indicate that the CIA was using Oswald in a dangerous way that could have started the WW3? If Oswald was sent to do what the CIA wanted to do and discovered an assassination plot against the president, surely him being inside the organization could have suggested that he infiltrates the plot and tries to abort it. The abort team was mentioned in two independent confessions. That is, there was an abort team.

    • Replies: @Sean
  308. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    I see you enjoy the fiction book Holy Blood Holy Grail. So did I. Very enjoyable, like Grisham, Kellerman Danielle Steele books.

  309. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    What are you talking about?

  310. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wade

    Didn’t the jury take about 20 minutes to aquit Shaw of conspiracy to murder JFK?

  311. j2 says:
    @Sean

    Sean. Oswald with his Soviet and Cuban connections was the best person to be framed in the assassination. Notice that he was not the lone nut because the Secret Service men backed off before the assassination, thus there was a conspiracy and SS was in it. Thus, Oswald was framed as a lone nut.

    If anybody more intelligent e.g. from the USA intelligence circles questioned the official theory and noted that it had to be a conspiracy, then the answer was:
    “Yes, we know it was a conspiracy, but look at the connections of this Oswald (showing documents and photos). It was the Soviets and Cubans (in a serious voice), we know that, but we cannot say it publicly as it would start a third world war (a bit trembling voice in the world war part). We even know why JFK was killed: you may not know that, but JFK and RFK tried to assassinate Castro with the help of mafia (looking keenly at the eyes of the intelligence guy). So Castro, with the agreement of Soviets, hired some other mafia men to kill JFK. I would say it was a justified revenge, and you know how many chicks this Jack has been banging (said with disgust). Good to get rid of such rich, Catholic trash! (determined, yet optimistic)”
    And so this intelligence guy decided to keep his mouth shut for the good of the nation.

    • Replies: @Sean
  312. j2 says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    “Good points. Jet fuel is more like kerosine than petrol and burns at a lower temp.”

    And then if you want to make a fast check mate of a supporter of the official theory, you do like this: accept his whole theory that one floor collapsed because steel pillars were weakened by fire and then the building came down. The only point you disagree is the fuel that created the fire to weaken the steel pillars. You say, it had to give a higher temperature because the Ground Zero stayed hot so long. So, these pillars were weakened by something like thermite. Otherwise I fully agree with you. So you have a base-line demolition theory that cannot be objected to without the official theory supporter changing his theory.l
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/2019/03/09/how-wtc-buildings-fell/

    It is the same method as to show the official Holocaust theory false: agree to the Jewish population figures and show by simple addition that from those figures the Jewish death toll in Auschwitz cannot be larger than 300,000 and the total Jewish death toll is 4.5 million. These alone suffice to discard the official theory.

    By this method I do not imply that the Jewish population figures are necessarily correct (they are not in the case of the Soviet Union), nor that the official WTC collapse theory is correct (in the cazse of WTC7), but for a chess game that does not matter. Take the opponent’s theory, make a small but undeniable change to it, and show that the official theory is undeniably false.

    Notice the tactics of the opponent, like Sean concerning JFK in this thread. They simply object with weak arguments against some point. They do not propose strong and undeniable arguments. All correct argumentation should use strong and undeniable arguments and in weak points agree with the opponent (as you cannot show them wrong in those points). This suffices, as their theories are false. Just find the strong argument and I suggest looking at the most unusual thing. (or the next most unusual, as long as you find a strong point)

  313. @Wizard of Oz

    It seems to me that anyone who would put forward the suggestion that the twin towers exploded and collapsed due to very hot aluminium coming into contact with cold water from the sprinkler system would meet the very definition of being sick and not serious. Of course it was non other that yourself, our very own and very sick wizard who had the chutzpah to make such an outlandish and absurd suggestion which is archived for all to see in the comment threads on this very site and you have the gall to claim another commenter is verging on “trollery”. What a wanker!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  314. @NoseytheDuke

    As you are sick enough to be obsessive about such things, would you care to quote me fully and fairly from the archive you are apparently interested enough in to purport to quote?

    I do recall seeing a documentary film which featured experts more relevantly knowledgeable than anyone commenting on UR threads touching on 9/11 which raised the explosive qualities of aluminium in some form, and suggested, if I remember it correctly, that the explosion like sounds heard by fitefighters could be explained by explosions for which aluminium from the aircraft and water from the building’s services could be the cause.

    As an obsessive of course you may remember or think you remember it in more detail but I would prefer the ipsissima verba rather than take your memory on trust.

    It is BTW not just obsessive but twisted to try and suggest that giving a hearing to a possibly or probably false theory about an aluminium based explosion is in any way “sick”.

  315. Sean says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    No. Kratoklastes misses the essential point when he talks about hijacking, the controllers official guidance is they should assume an in flight emergency as soon they have any indication that there is one, not wait untill they are certain there is one.

    So it’s 8:24 AM and traffic control knows with certainty that an aircraft has been hijacked – but that’s all they know. They know nothing whatsoever of the hijackers’ intentions

    If one reads reads the fascinating opening chapters of Griffin’s Debunking 9/11 Debunking , the final official government (not Griffin’s) version of what happened is that in the 10 minutes before an apparent hijacker voice was heard by the Boston controller responsible for flight AA11, the controller had noticed a series of events begining at 8:14 (missing a clearance out of radio contact, making a 90 degree turn and the planes transponder being turned off). Any one of those things was grounds for immediately declaring an in flight emergency and directly contacting the Air Force), but the controller only alerted his supervisor at Boston’s FAA centre after the overhearing a voice threatening pasengers . An in flight emergency protocol exists separate from a hijacking protocol and gives the authority to directly contact the Air Force’s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) in accordance with a documented understanding between the organisations. Boston FFA did not do that, it called the higher tier FAA centre in in Virginia, and then Boston FAA called FAA headquarters in Washington. Using the in flight emergency (not hijacking ) protocol, Boston FAAs military specalist used its direct line to call NEADS and after taking 4 minutes to get through informed NEADS at 8:38.

    According to Air Force at the the time an F15 at the time was expected to go from scramble order to 29,000 feet in well under under 3 minutes. The fighters did not even switch their engines on to prepare immediately and did not actually take off until 8:52. In charge on the day at NEADS was a Colonel, and he could have immediately given the green light to launched the F15s on his authority as battle commander, but instead the Col delayed issuing the order until he had spoken to a General waiting till the General was finished a meeting. Another reason was at the the same time the Boston FAA’s military liaison specialist found to his dismay, if not disgust, that the NEADS technicians could not locate the AA11 by using the reference points or fixed distance from a known location or latitude and longitude that he tried giving them five separate times. The Major in command of the F15s eventual decided he did not need an exact location where AA 11 would be in sight specified before launch and sent the F15s up having gained nothing from several minutes delay.

    The F15 scramble from Langley in response was the one time on 9/11 that fighters were in the air in time to intercept a terrorist piloted plane. However, we are told the Langley scramble was after a real plane, because according to the final government version of what happened the Langley F15s had been sent after a non existent phantom AA11, which was wrongly thought to be heading for Washington. Apparently, Boston the FAA guy misunderstood something he overheard in talk between FAA centers and told NEADS at 9:21 that AA11, which had actually hit a WTC tower 34 minutes before, was still in the air and headed for Washington. The Air Force General did not tell the commission about the scramble after phantom-11 in his initial testimony and it was years later that this story emerged.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  316. It’s no secret that Mexico has a vibrant & rich cartel economy.

    Fred’s deafeningly silent about that.

    Obviously he’s compromised, and we can only guess how compromised.

  317. @Sparkon

    Still not persuaded to take a special interest in Building 6 but I apologise for my error in denying what is put by Wikipedia as follows:

    Debris and the resulting fires caused a partial or complete collapse of all other buildings in the World Trade Center complex, including the 47-story 7 World Trade Center tower, as well as significant damage to ten other large surrounding structures.

    *** ,***

    But doesn’t all that create problems for all those CTs whose only interest seems to be in how three buildings came down? Now the story has to encompass the complete or substantial destruction of about 17 buildings…. Take a bow Mr Silverstein? Why has interest in his insurance contracts only extended so far to his old one on WTC7 and his updated one’s on WTC 1 and 2?

  318. Sean says:
    @j2

    Unfortunately, someone in the CIA was in that assassination plot, so the conspirators took plan B and decided to frame Oswald.

    Framing Oswald means framing the USSR and Cuba; it would have started WW3. If the objective of a conspiracy was starting WW3 with a false flag assassination of Kennedy, then Oswald was a perfect patsy.

    Lets reverse engineer an assassination plot, and see what it would have looked like. First;y, it would have been commissioned by certain interests and entailed altering US policy in a way that benefited some secret cabal or foreign power. Secondly, the plan would be been high security with no one allowed to know more than needed. It follows if a plot were Cuban then someone on the outside of such a plot would have to be a Cuban to get into the inner circle and discover what they were up to. Oswald could not pass for a Cuban and was not even fluent in Spanish, and had no relevant background for such a job.

    For participating in ordinary criminal activity maybe if you are spoken for by someone, you might get away with not giving your name, but you would still have to say who you had previously worked with. Oswald was an exhibitionist Marxist admirer of Castro who was already quite famous as a defector to the USSR, and on his return got into highly publicized confrontations on the street, TV and radio with Cuban right wingers. He could not possibly use his track record or true identity for infiltrating any association of extreme right wingers enough to discover they were engaged on an JFK assassination project. It is contrary to common sense to think Oswald could have been allowed into any such plot, or that once discovered to be a spy he would not immediately be killed to keep him quiet ans neutralize him

    This idea you have that some late stage a CIA counter intel type who also wore a separate also at a line manger level of the Dallas conspiracy decided to frame Oswald for killing JFK is highly problematic. It would have meant mean that the assassination would have been altered by that decision into something drastically different to the original intent of whoever had originally commissioned the operation. For then Oswald would be central to a completely new outcome of the assassination: instead of getting rid of or taking revenge on JFK , or replacing him with LBJ by assassination, assassination by known commie Oswald would be a means to the end of propelling America into a war with Soviet Russia. A war that LBJ would have to fight, and few in the CIA or Pentagon could hope to survive.

    • Replies: @j2
  319. @Sean

    That sounds like real life and just a little like Pearl Harbor.

    • Replies: @Sean
  320. Sbaker says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Few people here seem to consider the dissipation of the aircraft impact on these towers. I would think someone would consider the simple physics involved here. Momentum: 205,300,000 lb-ft/s . This is a fair estimate of the energy of a 400,000 lb aircraft moving at 350 mph. What does a force of this magnitude do to the structural integrity of the WTC towers as it dissipates?

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Mulegino1
  321. @Wizard of Oz

    Ah, but, Wizard: Barack Obama never wrote a damn thing while editor! Shouldn’t some prof have chided him? …..or bounced him? He did not do the job. Period. …..Lady in Red

  322. Sean says:
    @j2

    Look at this from seconds after Kennedy was shot.

    Rather than backing down the problem was the Secret Service had stayed up to late the night before drinking until 5am for an early morning start, The agents in the following car were dreadfully slow after the first two shots with only Clint Hill getting out the follow car and running over to JFK’s barely moving limo, but by the time he got there the head shot had been made and he could only scream at the driver to accelerate away. Maybe Hill could have got there a little quicker. I must admit that JFKs Secret Service driver Greer’s presentation of JFK as a virtual stationary target by bringing the limo to a near halt after the first shots instead of accelerating and/or swerving was a very, very poor performance. However Greer would hardly have been driver knowing he’d be so close to the line of fire of an assassination, would he? The most you can accuse Greer of is being fearful and hesitant in a sudden situation in which his life was in danger.

    The Kennedy administration (through its loose cannon Catholic Michael Forrestal, son of mentally unstable Catholic James Forrestal) authorized the over-throw of the Catholic Diem brothers regime in South Vietnam. The Diems were killed in that coup just weeks before Dallas, and it was no secret the Kennedy’s were out to get Castro. Live by the sword.

  323. Sean says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Fred’s idea that a Navy mistake would not happen is maybe making the same mistake as the conspiracy theorists, because the US Navy destroyers McCain and Fitzgerald were both involved in serious collisions with 17 fatalities a couple of years ago.

    A missile Ukrainian fired during an exercise of of Crimea accidentally shot down a airliner flying from Tel Aviv in 2001, they virtually admitted it. So it can happen (at least in the incredible alcoholic Ukrainian military who someone I know has worked with).

    The slightest thing can ruin a Western military officer’s career. The idea of a lethal accidental AA missile launch being covered up is very far from probable, because why would an admiral with his pension cover for a captain instead on making him the goat?

  324. Rurik says:
    @Colin Wright

    Are you really that stupid? Given the controlled demolition theory, hijacking the planes and flying them into the Twin Towers at all becomes a superfluous and wildly risky complication. It makes no sense.

    you’re wrong, of course, because they needed a pretext for the buildings to collapse, because it’s not very plausible that Osama and his henchmen would have had the wherewithal to be able to wire the buildings for a controlled demolition. So they had to have a pretext for the buildings to come down. Also there is the critical issue of ‘shock factor’, by showing the emotionally and psychologically incendiary videos over and over of the horrific fireballs and death and destruction.

    In order to get men like Pat Tillman sufficiently outraged enough to be willing to tell his wife and career to take a back seat so he could go kill the bastards that attacked his country like that, there needed to be a vision horrific enough to induce rage.

    It was all calculated in order to get Americans to send their sons and daughters thousands of miles away to kill and die – for Israel.

    It had to send shock waves through the public, and engender righteous blood-lust, and in order to do that, it had to be spectacular.

    This was to be the event that turned the 21st century into a replay of the 20th. IOW a century of unimaginable horrors and wars and terror and death and misery… all so that Israel could benefit from the carnage (perhaps gloat a little). Just like the last century’s horrors.

  325. Rurik says:
    @Nat Philosopherat Philosopher

    Why go looking to blame the Israelis

    because everything I know about the ZUSA and everything I know about Israelis and the “By way of deception..” Mossad, points to 9/11 as their obvious handiwork. They’re the only nation on the planet who actually benefited from that atrocity.

    Larry Silverstein was known to speak with Netanyahu on a weekly basis.

    It’s also pretty obvious that Israel also was behind 7/7 London bombings.

    This is what they do. They perpetrate false flag attacks in order to get the goyim to slaughter other goyim.

    Such a deal!

  326. Sean says:
    @Sbaker

    Can liquid punch though inches of solid steel armour plate . Yes, if it’s going fast enough .

    What does a force of this magnitude do to the structural integrity of the WTC towers as it dissipates?

    The one with the more floors above the impact and thus greater mass above it fell faster. However this does mean that the demolition prep work would only have to be on one floor. One floor being taken out and and once the floors above got started dropping as a unit they’d pulverize the ones below. So Fred is wrong that multiple floors of each tower would have to be preped, and a blowing out of one floor’s supports to bring the whole thing down is something I would not be too sure the US gov, has no one capable of, but those are byways. Fred is substantially correct about an op of that kind being too risky and complicated to be attempted. Rather than false flagging 9/11 and getting Iraq invaded 2 years later to, rather tardily, stop Saddam funding West Bank Palestinian suicide bombers. Israel could have solved the problem just as quickly by building a wall to keep the suicide vest wearing Arabs coming across the Green Line to slaughter Jews. Oh, they did.
    .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

    3.1 2000 (5 bombings)
    3.2 2001 (40 bombings)
    3.3 2002 (47 bombings)
    3.4 2003 (23 bombings)
    3.5 2004 (17 bombings)
    3.6 2005 (9 bombings)
    3.7 2006 (3 bombings)
    3.8 2007 (1 bombing)
    3.9 2008 (2 bombings)
    4 2010s
    4.1 2015 (1 bombing)
    4.2 2016 (1 bombing)

  327. Mulegino1 says:
    @Sbaker

    What does a force of this magnitude do to the structural integrity of the WTC towers as it dissipates?

    Not much. Consider this question: What does the opposite and equal force of the magnitude of a 100,000 ton steel and concrete skyscraper do to the structural integrity of a commercial Boeing 767?

    Answer: It tears it to shreds.

    • Replies: @SBaker
  328. j2 says:
    @Sean

    “If the objective of a conspiracy was starting WW3 with a false flag assassination of Kennedy, then Oswald was a perfect patsy. ”

    This conspiracy was a part of the same conspiracy that had started WWI and raised Hitler to power in order to start WWII, and in 1967 tried to get the USA in a war that might have become WWIII. The Cuban crisis was very close to starting WWIII. Assuming these people lived in the center of London, it is possible that this your suggestion is not so absurd. Maybe you think that JFK was assassinated by the official US bodies. I think on the top there was a Masonic-type not secret society, which had an obsession of the safety of one country that had a secret nuclear weapon program and this country had friends among mafia bosses and in many US governmental branches, but it was not thinking like you are that is this risky for the USA and the world. They were thinking is this good for us.

    You suggest that right wing Cubans were behind the plot and therefore ex-Communist Oswald could not infiltrate their conspiracy. I do not think there is any reason to think the plot was right wing Cubans. The group I mean is not Cubans.

    You think that if the people though that Oswald shot JFK, then the result would have been WWIII or other catastrophe. Yet, people were told Oswald shot JFK and there was no WWIII nor any catastrophic consequences. People controlling media could use this assassination for starting a war against the Soviet Union, as 911 was used to start wars, or they could downplay the issue and present Oswald as a lone nut, as they did. These people knew very well how to get the USA into a war, as they had done it in the WWI, and how to keep the USA out of a war. This time their interest was not war but a nuclear program. So they did not create the dire consequences you describe.

    If Oswald was at that time working for the CIA and found a plot against JFK and was told to check it, infiltrate into it, then some other CIA person, maybe higher up, learning about it told the conspirators to take the plan B. Oswald was shot. I do not especially see why he should have been shot immediately. As long as Oswald was alive the good guys though that they know the plot and have a plan to nullify it. Killing Oswald immediately would most probably have caused JFK to cancel his trip and a careful investigation.

    Let us assume Oswald was not an infiltrator. What we get. Oswald was in the assassination plot since he went home, took a gun and false ID and when arrested said he is a patsy instead of saying I am totally innocent and know nothing of this. He was shot, so he knew something of it. He worked in TSBD. If somebody shot from TSBD, then Oswald’s role in the plot is clear: either he shot or he let in the shooter, but the rifle had a defective sight and we concluded that nobody shot JFK with this rifle, no head shot to a moving target with that rifle. Then what was the role of Oswald in the conspiracy? The shots came from some other building, like Tex-Dal. Why was there a rifle in TSBD? If Oswald knew that the plan was changed, then there would not have been any rifle in TSBD and most probably not any Oswald in the workplace that day. So Oswald did not know that the plan was changed to Plan B. Why a partner in a conspiracy did not know it? Why did he take a rifle to TSBD? Only because the others wanted to make him a patsy, to take the blame. But Oswald did not want to take the blame like a man, he tried to run. So Oswald had not agreed to be the patsy. Now, why would the others do this to Oswald? Probably because they suspected that he was the betrayer. Was he? Somebody was, probably Oswald.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Sean
  329. denk says:

    To recap,

    Prob [all those ‘natural’ disasters just happen to strike when US needed an excuse to intervene] = practically 0.

    This begs the next big Q,
    Does US actually possess WMD of weather manipulation, earthquake excitation. ?

    No need to guess,
    Right from the horse mouth,…

    Way back in 1966, Professor Gordon J.F. MacDonald, then associate director of the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics at UC, Los Angeles, was a member of President Johnson’s Science Advisory Committee and later a member of the President’s Council on Environmental Quality. He actually wrote a chapter called “How to Wreck the Environment” in his book, Unless Peace Comes. Of course, this came at the height of the Vietnam brutality. Given the aura of violence similar to today’s, Gordon described in his chapter, among other things, “polar ice cap melting or destabilization, ozone depletion techniques,earthquake engineering [italics mine], ocean wave control and brain wave manipulation using the planet’s energy fields.”

    More Significantly,

    1997, ‘defense’ sec William Cohen ,,,
    There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

    So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It’s real, and that’s the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that’s why this is so important.’

    Sure, its always the others doing it, murikkans would never stoop to such low life tactics !

    Fact is, any empire watcher worth his salt should’ve
    no problem translating Cohen’s warning.

    IOW, we can confidently assume US has haarp, at its disposal back in 1997, prolly way back in 1966 !

  330. Aldous says:

    Did you ever proof read the articles you write? So may mistakes it is almost unreadable. I have found this on more than one instance and suggest you get someone with at least a tenth grade education to correct your errors.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  331. Sean says:
    @j2

    Sorry I thought you said Oswald was spying on Cubans.

    This conspiracy was a part of the same conspiracy that had started WWI

    I think you are temporally and every other way expanding the frame of reference when challenged. It seems you are now attributing every significant event on planet Earth in the last century to one tight little group. As Fred said, the scope of conspiracy theories expand under pressure of criticism; upping the ante until what is being postulated is far beyond the point where there could be a clandestine organisation for carrying out the plans of a few decision makers.

    I happen to believe that interactions between countries are determined by things like the balance of forces and spatial relations, or how powerful contending countries are in a total correlation. An occidental nation state is every bit as, vastly more in fact, old flexible, sophisticated and merciless in pursuing its own interests that any kind of clandestine subversive organisation could ever be. It is in the nature of things that they have emergent qualities, and countries have the quality of not being so easily made to do things against their long term interest, at lest not for long. There are revolutions and the leadership eventually get replaced if it fails to assert the country’s interests against all enemies foreign and domestic, but usually foreign because it takes a state to really pose a threat to a state.

    Of course international groups can get control of more than one country as when Marxism gained control of Russia and then China, but it did not last because they were natural geopolitical rivals. World War One was between alliances that formed because of geopolitical realities. Germany was dangerous to Russia and the West. The Second World War had almost the same alliances as the first.

    • Replies: @j2
  332. Nickvegas says:

    Fred:
    Read ya religiously, and have for years.
    And, if I’m vibin’ your intent accurately, I rightly laughed thru the entire article.
    You can still come home. We won’t even mention the relationship between tequila consumed in Mexico and diminishing IQ.
    Respectfully,
    NickVegas

  333. Sean says:
    @j2

    You think that if the people though that Oswald shot JFK, then the result would have been WWIII or other catastrophe. Yet, people were told Oswald shot JFK and there was no WWIII nor any catastrophic consequences.

    As I have already said, and it is well attested by everyone who has studied the politics of the Warren Commission, it was intended by the US government to reassure the American people that Oswald was not in any way directed or encouraged by the USSR or Cuba, because that perception by the electorate could snowball into WW3. Warren’s report was intended to completely discredit the ideal of the aforementioned communist governments having influenced Oswald to kill Kennedy. Warren did that by obfuscation and plain deception about Oswald in Mexico and even Warren were not told everything by any means (some CIA files on Oswald in Mexico are still classified). Warren discharged his remit very effectively, but in destroying any suspicion of a foreign conspiracy a very widespread suspicion of a domestic conspiracy was created because the public knew there was a cover up, even if they did not understand its purport.

    A non-state conspiracy, whose effectiveness depended on no one knowing about it, in planning a JFK assassination supposedly involved Oswald when his participation necessitated the precaution of Warren’s report to stop a drift to WW3. Yet the Warren Commission’s tendentiousness predictably created a consensus among very large parts of American society that there was a non-state conspiracy of some kind that had killed JFK to manipulating America. People started looking for a conspiracy after that, so it was a disaster for the putative conspirators to use Oswald, which anyone in your hypothesized conspiracy could and would have foreseen at the outset.

    • Replies: @j2
  334. j2 says:
    @Sean

    I do not attribute all world events to a small group. If you read the comment 307 from the thread
    Why Do Some People Keep Repeating the Same Mistakes? if more or less explains what group I think it is and what is its scope of interest. Israel is a central interest for this group. It is not a clandestine organization, I especially said Masonic-type NON secret society, to which could fit e.g. B’nai B’rith or a club of Zionistic millionaires, or many other similar groups. This group has not determined everything in the history, it only started around 1840 from Freemasonry and for a long time focused on Europe.

    What mainly determined the last century was major progress in technical areas. This group contributed little or nothing to it. Technical development changed out lives, caused urbanization, abundance of food,.. Science also advanced much, though less than in the previous centuries as the main steps were already taken before 1850.

    What this group did do was to support Communistic revolutions in Europe in the beginning, started two world wars, raised Nazis to power, created the UN and Israel, pushed through globalization and multi-culture. These all were negative things, with the possible exception of the UN. Most of these ideas were copied from Freemasons, so not much was original of what the group did. Hard to invent anything original, well maybe globalization. It is a very bad idea.

    But there were Communistic revolutions elsewhere, liberation of colonies, collapse of the power of the Great Britain, rise of the USA to a world power, famines, volcanoes, epidemies,… This small group did not have anything to do with them.

    Think about Freemasons to see what a secret organization can do. They did not determine everything. Nations had the balance of forces, made alliances, made wars, had interests, long before there were Freemasons. Freemasons never completely controlled any country, after all, there never was more than 2 million Masons and most of them in the USA in 1950ies. Masonic power was in Europe from 1770 to 1870, so there were only a small number of Masons. Still they did start practically all revolutions in this time spell. Masons started also all liberation wars of North and South America with the single exception of Haiti, which was a slave revolt. Masons (Napoleon was a Mason, surrounded by Masons, and spreading Masonic ideas and creating Masonic societies) started Napoleonic wars and they started the World War I (there were the interests that you mean, but the actual war was a response to a plot to assassinate the arcduke and there is good enough evidence that Freemasons were involved in it, I have written about it in my blog, will not repeat).

    The group I mean, is Zionists, not the Herzl organization, but the one that was created by Freemasons and that included some bankers from Rothschild’s circle. As a continuation of Masonic methods combined with international speculation it did do some things.

    Nation states have interests and they are quite merciless and they have intelligence organizations that make conspiracies. But the three conspiracy theories: JFK, 911 and Holocaust, go to the same small group and serve interests of the same small unit. It just appears so that the UR has an obsession of this small unit and that is why there is less discussion of the conspiracies that were done by other parties. We could for instance discuss the British Opium trade, oops, that was the Sassoon family, not that. So, the slave trade, oops, there was the slave trade from Africa to Brazil outside the companies, not that either. Well, I am sure there are such conspiracies that do not involve this small group.

    • Replies: @Sean
  335. SBaker says:
    @Mulegino1

    Right, but you didn’t answer the question. 100,000 tons is a static mass of 200 million lbs. The momentum of the aircraft was 205 million lb-ft/s.

    Did you watch Sean’s videos above? Do you know any first responders that were on site. How many people do you know that were murdered at the site? How many witnesses were in proximity?

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  336. j2 says:
    @Sean

    “People started looking for a conspiracy after that, so it was a disaster for the putative conspirators to use Oswald, which anyone in your hypothesized conspiracy could and would have foreseen at the outset.”

    So, do you mean that mafia gangsters who planned and performed the assassination would have refused to take Oswald, the former army sniper, the new guy who was good and willing to participate, to their plot because they carefully considered the world-political consequences if Oswald gets caught. Maybe you estimate their IQ and interest too highly.

    Or do you mean that some low level CIA person, the immediate boss of Oswald, when hearing of a possible planned assassination of the president thinks that, sorry, I cannot send Oswald to infiltrate this (maybe non-existing) conspiracy, because assuming that JFK was assassinated and for some curious reason Oswald was the one who pulled the trigger, then the public hearing of Oswald’s past would think that it is the Soviets who killed JFK. And it would not come to the mind of this CIA person that he could personally assure that he ordered Oswald infiltrate the conspiracy and Oswald worked for him and not for the Soviets.

    I mean Sean, It is all ???? No sense in what you write.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  337. Mulegino1 says:
    @SBaker

    I don’t need to answer your question, since it is irrelevant. The third law of motion is simple: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; there is no difference between the aircraft being in motion and the building being stationary and the building being in motion and the aircraft stationary.

    Have you seen the video of News Chopper 4 which shows no airliner or any large aircraft whatsoever colliding with WTC2?

    There is no credible video footage or photographs of a Boeing 767 colliding with the building. The Hezarkhani footage is totally fake. Why fake the footage if a large passenger jet really did impact the building? There would have been thousands of clear photos and video clips. Every news helicopter in the entire region was focused on the Twin Towers.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
    , @Sbaker
  338. Sparkon says:
    @j2

    “…Oswald, the former army sniper…”

    Oswald served in the Marines and was not a sniper. He trained and worked as a radar operator. According to his Wiki article, he was assigned to Atsugi, Japan with the job description of Aviation Electronics Operator.

    • Replies: @Sean
  339. Sean says:
    @j2

    What mainly determined the last century was major progress in technical areas.

    Not really, all boat rise in the tide. Russia has been backward yet militarily formidable for 500 years and in relative power it has hardly changed at all.

    Obviously small committed groups can have profound influence on a country but assassinations to be effective must be openly done and audacious. When Catherine the Great’s regiment of stallions murdered the Czar, she announced her husband had died from an attack of hemorrhoids. That was a plot but it was not all that secret and indeed to lead one must be willing to take risks. It simply is not possible to be behead a country or it to war while remaining in the background.

    For example the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Coup_(Serbia) in which members of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hand_(Serbia) assassinated the Serbian Royal family was not real secret. The Black Hand went on to deliberately start WW1 in an attempt to create a Greater Serbia and it worked! See http://www.unz.com/pfrost/they-really-did-start-it/. However https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragutin_Dimitrijevi%C4%87 was well known to have been the leader of the Black Hand and he was shot by a firing squad in 1916.

    But the three conspiracy theories: JFK, 911 and Holocaust, go to the same small group and serve interests of the same small unit.

    By a “who benefits?” analysis I would say the possible JFK assassination benefit to Israel is inconclusive, and the Israel Lobby was far less of a power in US politics back in the pre 1967 days, making it dubious they would do something like that when they were in no position to control the outcome. The 1967 attack on Arab countries was audacious andsucessful, that got Jews everywhere behind Israel like they had never been before

    For 911 it is pretty clear the Israel Lobby did shape the policy outcome to turn it to their advantage, and did not care who knew it. Still, the logistic and security challenges of actually doing 9/11 against the US are so great that it boggles the mind such an existential risk would be taken. Successful people play safe, they don’t go to extreme neck or nothing stratagems that rely on their opponent having a bad day. The Israel Lobby’s strategy is to have pre-positioned their media and political assets so as to be in a position to turn any and all events to Israel’s advantage. So while it often looks like they have benefited from 9/11, that benefit was very far from a necessary consequence of 9/11.

    As Fred said, false flagging Saudis working for a Saudi in Afghanistan would have been a very roundabout and uncertain way to get Bush to attack Iraq. Immediately after 9/11 it began to be spun by people like Wolfowitz and his network into a reason for attacking Iraq and in this ability to have people in important policy advisor positions put an audaciously non-intuitive spin on events, thereby guiding the policy adopted in response to them, one sees the real strength of the Israel Lobby.

    • Replies: @j2
  340. Sbaker says:
    @Mulegino1

    Are you unaware that parts of the aircraft were retrieved? Like I said I know a dozen first responders that were there and am acquainted with two people that worked at the site but were not there on 911. Eye witnesses all over the place saw the event, especially the second. It is beyond belief that supposedly intelligent people don’t get it. Was the moon landing a fake too? There were numerous videos of the 2nd event. Apparently you believe they were all faked. You have no facts and very little understanding simply because you weren’t there; that doesn’t prove it was faked.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    , @NoseytheDuke
  341. Sbaker says:
    @Mulegino1

    As far as the impact, you might want to consider the point and surface area of impact between the two objects–you seem to forget that aspect. I’ll provide an example for you to think about, or ask someone else to consider. Say you weigh 200 lbs and you are shot with a tiny 200 grain bullet impacting you at 2800 feet per second. If you had a bullet proof vest on would it move you, if not, would the bullet just disintegrate?

  342. Mulegino1 says:
    @Sbaker

    No, I am simply unaware of any parts found that belonged to a Boeing 767:

    Popular Mechanics, while mentioning that an engine from the South Tower airliner landed in the street, neglected to show an engine photo, engine street location, and engine positive identification. Just by identifying undamaged parts from the damaged engine positive identification of the engine was made in the article: However, the engine identified, a CFM56, is the primary engine of the Boeing 737 not the Boeing 767 alleged to have struck the South Tower.

    After mere hearsay, eyewitness testimony is the weakest link in the evidentiary chain. It is not all that difficult to get people to claim that they saw and heard things which never occurred at all- this was standard fare for the Nuremberg Kangaroo Tribunals and standard tripe for the official 9/11 fairy tale.

    There were indeed numerous faked videos of the WTC 2 crash- as a matter of fact- they are filmed from virtually every conceivable angle of approach, yet you hear the same people in the background- the same “Holy shit!” guy and the screaming female banshee. There is no credible footage whatsoever, which is remarkable, given that every single news helicopter in the region must have been covering the Twin Towers at the point.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  343. @Sbaker

    Of all of the videos and pictures that were taken in the hour to hour and a half between the supposed impacts and the explosions/collapsing of the buildings, would you kindly post some of them showing any aircraft wreckage that fell to the ground? Part of a wing, tail section, anything like that would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  344. Sean says:
    @Sparkon

    He received pistol, rifle and riot gun training, including intensive rifle practice and coaching at ranges of up to 500 yards during Marine basic training. By today’s standards his training was relatively sniper-like inasmuch there was emphasis on long range single shot accuracy. At 17 years old he hit a 10 inch target at 200 yards with 80% of his shots. In Dallas the the third (head) shot was from 265 feet.

    It is now increasingly believed his shots in Dallas were fired over a time of 8-11 seconds with the first having ricocheted off of a light-post. The second hit Kennedy below shoulder level close to the spine and might well have left him a paraplegic had he lived. For the third shot Oswald seems to have altered position (judging by the position of his empty cartridge cases), and because the last two shots came close together Oswald’s third shot must be rated really quite good. Oswald’s shooting dead of Officer JD Tippett 45 minutes later was an objectively impressive piece of quick aiming and trigger control.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Ians
  345. According to Dimitri Khazelov, former officer of the Soviet nuclear intelligence, the WTC towers, and most tall steel skyscrapers in NYC for that matter, have a nuclear charge in their foundation/basements. It was part of the NYC building code requiring the developers to provide a contingent demolition plan in case the building needed to be taken down (for civil purposes).

    Worth noting that before 9/11, dictionaries referred to the term “ground zero” as the point above a nuclear explosion. After 9/11, dictionaries in the US changed the definition.

    Also according to him, a P-700 Granit missile hit the Pentagon. It was stolen from the sunken Russian Kursk submarine in 2000. The recovery contract of the submarine was oddly given to none other than Halliburton.

    The case of Khalezov was directly linked to the one of Victor Bout – alleged arms dealer accused by the US to have provided portable nuclear weapons to “terrorists” in South America.

  346. Sparkon says:
    @Sean

    Former Dallas Chief of Police Jesse Curry:

    “We don’t have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle, and never did. Nobody’s yet been able to put him in the building (Texas School Book Depository) with a gun in his hand.”

    https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKcurryJ.htm

    The weapon originally found in the so-called “sniper’s nest” on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository was identified as a Mauser by several Dallas cops based on the manufacturer’s name stamped on it. Later, the FBI said it was a Mannlicher-Carcano, meaning the weapons had been switched, and the patsy would be Oswald, and not one of the black guys working in the TSBD.

    The paperwork allegedly connecting the Mannlicher-Carcano carbine to Oswald via A. Hidell is riddled with inconsistencies, but one really need go no further than to ask why Oswald, if he wanted a rifle or carbine, didn’t simply walk into a local gun shop anywhere in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area — must be 100s — and simply purchase his weapon over the counter.

    The only reason for the mail order purchase is to set up a paper net to entrap a patsy.

    Photo: Jim MacCammon

    Harvey and Lee:

    Following the shooting, eight or nine people walked to Tippit’s patrol car and saw him lying on the street. A few minutes later ambulance attendants Clayton Butler and Eddie Kinsley arrived and removed Tippit’s body. DPD officers began to arrive at the scene and started to question witnesses as on-lookers gathered. But not one witness, not one ambulance driver, not one neighbor, not one on-looker and not one trained police officer saw a wallet lying on the street or in Tippit’s car.

    Dallas Police Captain Westbrook, along with Sergeant Calvin Owens and assistant DA Bill Alexander, arrived a few minutes later. Westbrook heard over the police radio that a suspicious person had been seen running into a nearby library, and was immediately driven to that location.

    After returning to 10th & Patton a wallet suddenly appeared in Westbrook’s hands with identification for Lee Harvey Oswald, which linked Oswald to Tippit’s murder, and with identification for Alek Hidell that linked Hidell (Oswald) to the rifle found on the 6th floor of the Book Depository. Westbrook called out to FBI agent Bob Barrett and asked him if he knew anything about Oswald or Hidell. Barrett was unfamiliar with these names, but saw the wallet, along with Captain George Doughty, Sergeant Calvin Owens, Sergeant Kenneth Croy, accident investigator Howell Summers, and WFAA TV cameraman Ron Reiland. Reiland filmed police officers as they inspected and handled the wallet.

    The Dallas Police officers at 10th & Patton now knew, thanks to identification found in the wallet, that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was the prime suspect in Tippit’s murder. Their next stop was the Texas Theater where HARVEY Oswald, wearing a long-sleeve brown shirt, was sitting in the 4th row in the lower level, while LEE Oswald, wearing a white t-shirt, was hiding in the balcony.

    Captain Westbrook was the ranking officer at 10th & Patton and knew police procedure as well as anyone. If Westbrook was not the person who brought the wallet to 10th & Patton, then he should have insisted on police reports to establish a “chain of custody” for the wallet, written a detailed report about the wallet and its contents, entered the wallet into evidence at DPD headquarters, and discussed the wallet with the Warren Commission. But not a single police report was written about the wallet and neither Westbrook, Owens, nor Croy mentioned nor was asked about the wallet by the FBI, Secret Service, or the Warren Commission. The fact that Captain Westbrook totally ignored police procedure about a crucial piece of evidence is reason to believe that Westbrook was the person responsible for bringing the wallet to 10th & Patton and, according to FBI agent Barrett, it was Westbrook who kept the wallet. This wallet was the single most important piece of evidence ever found prior to Oswald’s arrest, yet ten minutes after it appeared this wallet disappeared and was never seen again.

    This disappearing wallet is PROOF that Tippit’s murder was pre-planned. If Westbrook, or anyone else, had identification in their possession that would be used to identify a suspect in a murder, PRIOR TO THE MURDER, then that person had prior knowledge of a pre-planned assassination. The real significance of this wallet is that it shows that Westbrook knew, IN ADVAVCE, that HARVEY Oswald would be accused of Tippit’s murder and that he would be linked, from identification in the wallet, to the assassination of President Kennedy. The only reason for the wallet to appear at 10th & Patton was to identify and frame Oswald. And the only reason for this wallet to disappear is that DPD officers removed HARVEY Oswald’s wallet from his pants pocket while en route to the police station. Two wallets that contain nearly identical identification are unexplainable. After the assassination Captain Westbrook relocated to South Vietnam, where he served as a CIA special advisor to the Saigon Police.

    (italics in original – a few paragraph breaks added)

    https://harveyandlee.net/November/TippittMurder.html

    • Replies: @j2
  347. j2 says:
    @Sparkon

    I have not looked at this JFK issue in details, I only looked at the Dictabelt. You seem to have detailed knowledge of the topic. So, are the following facts true? Fact and what can be derived from it:

    Fact 1. Oswald went home, took a gun and false ID and was later arrested, told he was a patsy and was later shot.
    – Conclude: Oswald was a part of the conspiracy as a person without connection to the conspiracy does not take a gun and false ID and say that he is a patsy. A person who was shot by Rubinstein very possibly had some knowledge of the assassination, the patriotic motive for shooting Oswald is unlikely.

    Fact 2. A rifle was found from the building, be it Mauser or Mannlicher-Carcano. The rifle that was later shown was Mannlicher-Carcano with a defective sight.
    – Conclude: Step 1: if Oswald was a lone nut shooter, the rifle he used had to be in the building or thrown from a window and easily found. If he was a lone nut shooter, the police gained noting by switching the rifle as Oswald was dead already and there was no problem of getting him sentenced. No need to fake evidence. If Oswald was a lone nut shooter he shot with a rifle with a defective sight.
    – Conclude: Step 2: the Dictabelt shows more shots and has suggestine speech periods. Thus, Oswald was not the lone nut shooter. There was a conspiracy. The shooter in such a conspiracy is unlikely to have used a rifle with a defective sight. They had more than one weapon to use. If there had been no rifle in the building we would conclude that there was a shooter and he took the rifle with him, but there was a rifle, either a Mauser or the Mannlicher-Carcano. Thus, if the rifle was not the Mannlicher-Carcano, police switched it. So, police was in the conspiracy. Now you ask, howcome the plot was planned so poorly that the rifle had to be switched? Does not make sense. That would be a stupid error, but if the conspirators were so stupid and making errors, they would have been caught already. So we conclude the rifle was Mannlicher-Carcano. The police men who identified the rifle as Mauser made an error. People who think they know weapons may just read MA… well, this is a Mauser of a type, I know these German weapons. This is possible and the most logical explanation.
    – Conclude: Step 3: No professional sniper would have used a rifle with a defective sight. The conspiracy was professional enough. Oswald was in downstairs, told he was a patsy. He most probably was not the shooter. From these follows that the shots from the back were not shot with this Mannlicher-Carcano. Why was the rifle there? If nobody shot JFK with it, it was there to frame Oswald. Then we may assume that the shots from the back did not come from that building. And trying to find a suitable building leads us to Tex-Dal. As it supports the story of James Files, we look at the tenants of Tex-Dal and find Zapruder.

    Fact 3: At the last shot JFK falls to the back and to the side.
    – Conclude: there was a shot from the front. If fits to the confession of James Files. Take all confessions by Hunt’s son and intelligence of an assassination plot and put them together. It gives the version I wrote in the explanation to Wiz of how to deduce from an unusual event. This topic was discussed long ago in the JFK article by Ron Unz, I will not discuss it any further.

  348. j2 says:
    @Sean

    About the role of Freemasons in starting the WWI the arguments are like this:
    – I checked a Catholic newspaper issue published before the archduke was killed were it is said that from a high Mason was heard that the archduke will die before taking power. Thus, Masons had pre-knowledge. Archduke himself told his friend that Freemasons have decided to kill him, but as this is in the memoires published later we cannot take this with full value, but the newspaper story we can. For sure the Catholic Church did not kill the archduke.
    – The Black Hand did the killing. One of the Black Hand members told they did it for Freemasons. This is a weak argument, but a supporting one. The next one is strong.
    – Serbian intelligence gave guns and training to the Black Hand. Serbian intelligence must have known it most probably leads to a war with Austria. For Serbia to go to a war with Austria they needed to know that Russia will join the war on Serbian side. For Russians to have promised such a thing they needed to know that France will join the war, because they had to expect that Germany would join the war on Austrian side. Indeed, if Russians made any strength calculations (and Russians do), they must have had a promise from some powerful people in England that England will join the war. That was not official promise from England. They were not ready for a war. Thus, it must have come from some secret cabal, that is, Freemasons or bankers. You cannot separate Freemasons and bankers. They were one unit. Masons wanted a war to finish all wars, a war to destroy three remaining monarchies (Austria, Germany, Russia), they wanted a homeland for Jews. The war fulfilled three main Masonic goals, so it was supported by Masons. I conclude they started it. It fulfilled two main goals of bankers: to have a war to gain economically and to have a homeland.

    About JFK and 911 I do not reason from who gains but from who was implicated. In 911 there were the dancing Palestinians and Silberstein. They make a connection that is hard to explain in another way. Silberstein’s “pull” indicates a demolition, high temperatures mandate a demolition (e.g. the way I propose in my base-line demolition theory), to have a demolition and for Silberstein to know it is more than pre-knowledge. It is planning and performing it. In JFK the implications are Zapruder in Tex-Dal, Rubinstein, links to Jewish mafia members, and the composition of Warren commission experts and their faulty reply to the Dictabelt paper by Donald Thomas. In both conspiracies the final and decisive pointer is the cover-up by media. There is only one power in the USA which can make a cover-up in media. It is not the government, the president, the NRA, the white nationalists, the CIA, nor American Finns.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Seraphim
  349. Sean says:

    The gun was not bought under Oswald’s name but rather the alias “A. Hidell” , which is an obvious pun for ‘Fidel’. Were those framing Oswald doing it with the objective of starting WW3? Most people buy things where they are cheapest, and $29.95 went further on mail order. The job in the Book Depository was got through acquaintances of his separated wife to get him to pay for the cost of supporting her and his two daughters. His marriage broke up, his wife had a baby, he’d lost the only good job he ever had after a week, the Cubans and Soviets told both him he was not welcome in their country, and he was forced to take a menial work he despised. All this in the several weeks before the assassination.

    Consider, JFK had humiliated Cuba and the USSR in the Cuban Missile crisis, Oswald was a well known sympathizer of Cuba and had tore up his US passport, defected and spent time living in USSR, and was living in Dallas with a Russian. He had been to the Cuban Consulate in Mexico just weeks before. Oswald had very real connections to the Cuban and Soviet intelligence and the some of the intelligence reports on what he said to the Cubans and Soviets in Mexico weeks before Dallas are still being kept secret. The assassination of the Diem brothers only weeks before Dallas in a Kennedy backed coup shocked America and probably had a profound impact on Oswald in view of his belief Kennedy was going after Fidel. Oswald does not strike me as a trusting, unwarily pliable type who it would be easy to manipulate. He is difficult.

    The CIA’s counter intel department were made to look like incompetents due to them not having opened a file on military defector Oswald until a year after he had gone USSR , and it now seems from Trump’s declassified file release that the CIA knew that Oswald was in Dallas yet they did not inform anyone. Many these facts were concealed by James Angleton along with probabally much else . It would have been most unlikely for anyone in the CIA to have chosen Oswald as a patsy, because their careers were predictably damaged in the inter service recriminations that followed the assassination and wrecked the CIA’s reputation.

    The main reason to doubt that anyone would choosing Oswald as a patsy is might well entail making the Fidel Castro and the Soviet Union the goat in the eyes of the public (what the Warren Commission and everyone else were careful to avoid ) and know one could say how that would play out. The establishment were terrified that nuclear war was going to be the outcome if it snowballed. Remember that LBJ ran that attack ad at Barry Goldwater’s 1964 presidential run.

    And by the way Johnson did really well as President, but he had to do great with under a year before facing an election and there was massive suspicion he had been involved in killing Kennedy for the obvious reasons (it was done in his back yard and he got to be President as a result). Very very risky to do it in Dallas for any LBJ plot and an uncertain term in office. Anyway, propaganda and public relations are the way the elite rule in a Western democracy in my opinion. Their countdown ad destroyed Goldwater as effectively as blowing his brains out would have. They have ways of molding the public’s mind that are infinitely more subtle and effective than even the tinfoil hat brigade suspect. They have got to you with their conspiracy theories.

    • Replies: @j2
  350. Sbaker says:
    @Mulegino1

    i understand you would be easily manipulated, but that is you and not everyone that was there. You are projecting the way you think. So was the Pentagon crash and flight 93 also faked? Were the cell phone conversations with the family members on flight 93 faked and the family members coerced? Once again, because you weren’t there to provide an eye witness account, no one who was is to be believed, is your contrivance. Many of us know people that were there, not just those at the WTC but also a couple that were in the Pentagon. Your smearing of so many good people is a disgusting display of inhumanity towards the good people that suffered and died at the hands of mass murderers.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  351. Sbaker says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Numerous parts were found in the cleanup wreckage. I personally know several responders that were at the site for months. In fact, I taught a course less than a week ago with one of them. Don’t get me wrong, I’m well aware that many people are liars, crooks, and bastards with a political agenda. Intelligent people are often misled by the above list. Let me ask, what fraction of the knowledge you have is actually the truth? Put another way, what fraction of what you think you know to be the truth, is actually false information?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  352. anon[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sbaker

    1 Dancing Israelis
    2 Dominique Sutter
    3 Urban Moving Company
    4 Phillip Jack of Anthrax letter telling FBI about anthrax before you, me and the victims knew it were on the way

    5 Instagram message- 2 hours before 911 – stay away from WTC Don’t go to war.

    6 FBI telling government that attacks were coming and Gov telling to ignore but focus on Saddam . Then same government telling intelligence failures . Then same give rubbing the wound with the salt saying Saddam did it.

    7 Tell us about Richard Clarke who said that Bush election transition team NSA member and 911 commission staff ignored the warnings delivered to him . Same guys told Virginia University that the war against Iraq was for Israel.

    ——————–

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  353. anon[287] • Disclaimer says:

    Decoy is one of the tools to divert and distract. By focussing on crowds who are keen to know about demolition and plane maneuvering , and raising them to high profile of visibilities , the 911 mastermind has achieved the purpose of the deployment of the decoy. Tell us who and why the 911 warnings were ignored and why the same people immediately after, in concert with Israel, media, Likudniks in US ( PNAC) started saying it was done by Saddam. WHY???

    Fred I think when CT is the issue , you can’t beat this— the CT as you rightly pointed out but for the wrong context , also tends to amplify and resurface with borders stupidest version: 911 was done by Iran.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  354. anon[135] • Disclaimer says:

    William Safire later recanted that he said
    ‘ Air Force One was a target . Terrorists managed to decipher the code “
    It was more threatening actually

    I don’t remember his entire warming .

    Question is who was making threats and why and why rumors or threats were flying then like fleas .

  355. Sean says:
    @j2

    Is English your first language?

    • Replies: @j2
  356. j2 says:
    @Sean

    No, it is the third.

  357. j2 says:
    @Sean

    I do not think the details of an assassination plan carried out by mafia guys necessarily went to such echelons that think of all what you say. Let’s think what might happen if Osama bin Laden had been framed as the 9/11 terrorist. That’s terrible, Saudi Arabia might be offended, all muslims might be offended, it might start a Third World War. Certainly no CIA person would ever think of suggesting that Osama bin Laden had anything to do with that attack. See, people aren’t as cleaver as you, they do not think so deeply.

  358. Sparkon says:

    Here’s a good conspiracy theory that Fred Reed somehow missed despite its apparent pertinence for the tin foil hat sombrero brigade down in ol’ Mexico:

    Two armed Israeli agents were arrested inside the Mexican Congress on October 10, 2001, just one month after 9/11.

    by
    Ernesto Cienfuegos
    La Voz de Aztlan

    Los Angeles, Alta California – October 15, 2001- (ACN) In a mind-blowing development, La Voz de Aztlan has learned that Mexican Army General Rafael Marcial Macedo de la Concha who heads the Procuraduría General de la República (Mexican Department of Justice) has released the retired Israeli Defense Forces colonel and presumed MOSSAD agent Salvador Guersson Smecke and Israeli illegal immigrant Saur Ben Zvi after both had penetrated the security of the Mexican Congress and where in possession of guns, hand grenades and explosives.
    […]
    “We believe that the two Zionists terrorist were going to blow up the Mexican Congress.”

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mex.html

    Los Angeles, Alta California – October 12, 2001 – (ACN) We were alerted this morning by a subscriber from Mexico that two Israelis were arrested Wednesday inside the Palacio Legislativo de San Lбzaro (Mexican Congress) in Mexico City. Both were armed with 9 mm automatics and one was carrying a military hand grenade, electrical wiring and other bomb related materials. The Israeli Embassy at Sierra Madre 2155, colonia Lomas de Chapultepec has close[d] its doors to the Mexican Press and are refusing to talk. The incident has been independently verified by La Voz de Aztlan through Mexican diplomatic, press and other sources in Mexico City.

    The Chief of Legislative Security, Salvador Alarcуn, has also confirmed the arrest of the two Israeli terrorists. One of them Saur Ben Zvi is a confirmed citizen of Israel and the other, Salvador Guersson, recently immigrated to Mexico from Israel. It is has been determined by the Procuradurнa General de la Repъblica (Mexican Department of Justice) that Guersson is a retired Colonel of the Israeli Defense Forces and that he may now be operating as a MOSSAD agent. It is not known how they were able to penetrate the extensive security system of the Mexican Legislative Palace.

    http://www.pravdareport.com/news/russia/34472-n/

    It appears most of the images and original stories about this event have been scrubbed, probably because, you know, it is too anti-semitic. Sure, a couple Israelis with a few hand grenades just happened to be passing through the Mexican Congress posing as press photographers, and the first thing you know, all the anti-semites are calling them terrorists.

    By the way, Mr. Reed, those are not standard issue tin foil hats. Rather, that photo shows several patients who are suffering from a rare condition brought on by a diet of pure chocolate, and now find themselves turning into Hershey Kisses.

    • Replies: @anon
  359. denk says:

    Terrorists who couldnt shoot straight,,,

    Exhibit A

    Bali bombing…

    Joe Vialls,
    ‘They expect us to believe that the same Islamic Terrorists who supposedly masterminded the Sept. 11th attacks, (Arguably the most significant MILITARY strikes in the history of empires, shaking the very roots of the globe’s preeminent empire.) would blunder and bomb the disco containing Australians when a disco full of juicy Americans is probably just a few doors down the road?

    Pak
    TTP terrorists tracked down a group of tourists,
    singled out the Chinese for executions, leaving
    murikkans and others unharmed, now get this….
    supposedly to avenge the death of their comrades killed by murikkan drones .!

    Pak,
    TTP chieftan Mohamed Mehsud caused an uproar
    when he was released from gitmo after only a brief spell, cuz he allegedly hated murikkans guts.
    Yet his first op upon release was to kidnap and kill
    Chinese engineers
    working on the Gawdar port proj !

    Mali,
    Officially, murikkan jsoc death squads have been chasing and killing muslim terrorists there post 911.
    One’d expect there’r lots of pissed up militants running around looking for the first chance to lay their hand on some juicy murkkans !

    when a bunch of jihadists laid seige to a five star hotel in 2015, there was a large gathering of international tourists…including a group of murikkans and their IndiaN buddies.
    Yet the jihadists completely ignored the great satans,, but slain several Chinese senior executives and their Russian associates., who happened to be in town to negotiate a major railway proj with the Malian govn !

    Tip of an iceberg….

    A case of cock eyed terrorists,
    Or is there a more sinister implication ?

    Ian Fleming,
    ‘Once is a happenstance,……….

  360. Sean says:

    Osama Bin Laden was neither the government of Saudi Arabia nor living in Saudi Arabia, where he was a wanted man. He was a Saudi dissident, who above all objected to the US Army being in Saudi Arabia. Now, the reason the US Army was in Saudi Arabia was that Saddam was still in power over the border in Iraq.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_withdrawal_from_Saudi_Arabia

    Since Saudi Arabia houses the holiest sites in Islam (Mecca and Medina), a number of Muslims, including Bin Laden and his supporters, were outraged at the permanent presence of non-Muslim U.S., British and French military personnel. The continued presence of U.S. troops after the Gulf War in Saudi Arabia was also one of the stated motivations behind the September 11th terrorist attacks[1] and the Khobar Towers bombing. The date of the 1998 United States embassy bombings was eight years to the day (August 7) that American troops were sent to Saudi Arabia.[2] [3]

    Opinion polls conducted by Gallup from 2006–2008, found that many in Muslim majority countries strongly objected to U.S. military bases in Saudi Arabia. 52% of Saudis agreed that removing military bases from Saudi Arabia would very significantly improve their opinion of the United States. Also, 60% of Egyptians, 39% of Jordanians, 40% of Syrians and Palestinians, 55% of Tunisians, 13% of Iranians, 29% of Turks, 40% of Lebanese, and 30% of Algerians gave that opinion, too.[4]

    On April 29, 2003, Donald Rumsfeld announced that he would be withdrawing remaining U.S. troops from the country. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz had earlier said that the continuing large U.S. presence in the kingdom was putting American lives in danger.

    Osama bin Laden’s attack on 9/11 led to the invasion of Iraq, the toppling of Saddam, and the withdrawal of US forces from Saudi Arabia.

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russo.htm

    I learned that the Bobby Kennedy I so admired in 1968 had been a polar opposite as his brother’s Attorney General: dangerously inexperienced, and, worst of all, reckless…. Bobby Kennedy, five years earlier, had berated government officers 20 years his senior for their slow pace in eliminating Cuban dictator Fidel Castro. More than most, Bobby himself ..Toward the end of his life, he mused, “I have wondered at times if we did not pay a very great price for being more energetic than wise about a lot of things, especially Cuba.” .

    Lee Harvey Oswald wanted to defend Cuba. Oswald’s assassination of President Kennedy halted the Kennedy–CIA campaign to assassinate Castro and destabilize Cuba.

    • Replies: @j2
  361. j2 says:
    @Sean

    Sean, the problem I do not understand you is not my inability to understand English, it is the nearly total lack of logic in what you write. So, let us see your argument and how much sense it makes:

    Your argument is that Oswald could not have been intended as a patsy because his connections to the Soviets and Cubans could have created a dangerous situation in international politics.

    The answer this you concern is that in the original assassination plan Oswald was not intended as a patsy. Most probably nobody was intended as a patsy. Probably a sniper was to get to the building, shoot JFK and leave with the rifle. Then it would have been a problem to the police how the sniper got there, as he obviously got out some way with the rifle. Oswald having been downstairs would not have been the main suspect. If the sniper got out so that nobody saw, he also got in so that nobody saw and maybe no worker in TSBD was involved, or maybe some black guy, it was Texas.

    But the plan was changed and JFK was shot by a fast improvised team made of mafia gangsters, the second abort team. They decided to shoot from Tex-Dal instead of TSBD. They did not tell Oswald of this change of the plan, so Oswald took the rifle to TSBD and that is how he become the patsy.

    Now, consider the options that these mafia guys had. They had just, maybe a day before the assassination, been told that the plan was uncovered, Oswald is a betrayer, make up another plan. They could not tell Oswald of the change of the plan and Oswald would take the rifle to TSBD and become a patsy. But this was the only way to assassinate JFK. When the options are like this, the mafia guys did not think that it may be dangerous for world peace if Oswald gets caught. They though that they should put a bullet on Oswald and it is even better if he also takes the blame.

    So nobody in the high echelons where people like you think of the political consequences were even informed of the plan that was fast concocted by these mafia guys, the abort team with such luminaries in international relations as the young hit-man James Files.

    I again suggest that if you want to solve this conspiracy problem to yourself, you make up a scenario, or several scenarios and find such a scenario which explains all facts. Proposing weak and illogical objections to my scenario is not the way. I have already considered all objections you have produced so far and found them weak. There are strong arguments that lead to a solution quite similar to what I proposed.

    • Replies: @Sean
  362. Mulegino1 says:
    @Sbaker

    It is you who can be very easily manipulated, given that you believe the absolutely impossible official narrative.

    So was the Pentagon crash and flight 93 also faked?

    Whatever “crashed” at the Pentagon was not a Boeing 757, since there was no wreckage consistent with such an aircraft, the alleged flight path was an aeronautical impossibility, and the damage sustained by the building absolutely inconsistent with being struck by a large passenger airliner, and totally consistent with planted explosives and shaped charges inside the building.

    With regards to flight 93, there is nothing in Shanksville that even remotely suggests an airliner crashed there, and mine shafts do not tend to swallow commercial airliners whole in the real world.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  363. Sbaker says:
    @Mulegino1

    Like I stated before, you weren’t there. I’ll go with the people who were. You can follow the CTs making money from their double-secret inside information sales. Snake oil has made money for centuries. Why should I expect today’s buyers to be any different.

    • LOL: NoseytheDuke
  364. Sbaker says:
    @anon

    I’m guessing you have little idea of the number of false leads there are to follow. Here is an example: in 2002, Whiteman Air Force base was receiving more than a hundred electronic probes on a daily basis. Most of the probes originated from the Middle East–imagine that.

  365. Sbaker says:
    @anon

    What is your reference for Phillip Jack’s warning of the, it’s actually Bacillis anthracis, that causes the disease anthrax in the US mail?

    Also, Instagram was available in 2001?? I’m just asking.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  366. @Sbaker

    Though not from Missouri myself, I’ve been there and know the term seeing is believing so I’m very much looking forward to you posting a pic or two of some of the “Numerous parts were found in the cleanup wreckage” that you are so certain of because of the people that you know and the one you taught in a class a week ago. Thanks in anticipation.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  367. @Sbaker

    The warning is said to have come from Odigo not Instagram.

    • Replies: @anon
  368. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sparkon

    an attack took place in INDIA on its parliament around same time The person who was accused and hung was not given a fair trial The media conducted a circus of trial. The atmosphere of ant muslim narrative helped the media to ignore the inconsistencies .

    1 yr ago Jewish guys 5 of them were arrested oneway to Bangladesh from India , at airport They presented themselves as Afghanistan . http://WWW.RENSE.COM ,might still have the article. Once arrested ,the cover was blown and there were handed over to Israel under severe Israeli pressure .

  369. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    The role of FM in bringing about WW1leading from behind is undeniable. Its aim was always the destruction of Russia and the ensuing social revolution. It would have been impossible without a war between Russia and Germany, which would create unprecedented chaos and unrest. The war was planned in details in the comfortable semi-obscurity of the Lodges and in the Socialist movements. This aim was obscured by the relentless propaganda denouncing the ‘Russian threat’, ‘ambitions’, ‘pretensions’ and the maintaining in the public ‘opinion’ of the meme that Russia started the war.
    Franz-Ferdinand was assassinated because he intended to restore the Austro-Russian understandings which prevailed before the 1848 Revolutions and prevented wars since the Congress of Vienna. His plans to create the United States of Greater Austria could have defused the ethnic conflicts that beset the unnatural Dual Monarchy.
    But the FM thought otherwise. An unexpected light is shed upon the plans concocted in their Lodges. It illuminates the role ascribed to a renascent Poland in the new configuration of the world after the success of the revolutions. It is what historians call ‘Pilsudski’s (the hero of Polish independence) prescience’.
    “At a meeting of Polish sympathizers in Paris in 1914, he declared that war was imminent and that “the problem of the independence of Poland will be definitely solved only if Russia is beaten by Austria-Hungary and Germany, and Germany vanquished by France, Great Britain and the United States; it is our duty to bring that about”.
    Pilsudski was a socialist and, if not a Mason himself, surrounded by Masons. He was aware, or made aware rather, that Russia must be beaten, but not to fear that Germany would absorb Poland because the Anglo-American alliance (of which nobody was thinking possible, but was prepared in secret by the greatest conspirators of the 20th century, Churchill and Roosevelt) would take care.
    So, he dutifully allied his Polish Legion prepared in secret with Austrian help since 1908 with Germany, being actually the first to cross into Russia even before the official declaration of war (by Germany) and “distinguishing itself against the Russians”. In November 1916, he suddenly refused to fully integrate his Legion with the Austro-German armies and continue the offensive against Russia. It is said that the March Revolution helped ‘unexpectedly’ his position. But what really should explain it was the certitude that America would soon step in.
    There would be much more to say about his ‘Promethean’ plans, the ‘Intermarium’.

    • Replies: @j2
  370. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    Nice to learn that Pilsudski had pre-knowledge. It must have been known to Russia that the Entente powers would join the WWI, while Germany did not know what England and the USA would do. For Germany it would be very risky to look for a war that almost certainly would be a two front war, even without England and the USA. They had he the Schlieffen plan, but it got stuck in France, this was a possibility they had to know, a two front war is a challenge not to be taken if can be avoided, but they wanted to have an unavoidable war rather sooner than later because Russia was getting stronger. But the fact remains that Germany did not encourage the Black Hand or Serbian intelligence to provoke a war. It was Masons. There is evidence of it.

    I tried to find Pilsudski’s Masonic associations. Do you know more than Bolesław Wieniawa-Długoszowski? From Wiki it looks like he also had a Jewish connection:

    “In 1877 his family bought the manor house[1] in Bobowa. Bobowa, (Bobov)[2] in Yiddish, was a centre of Hassidic life in Poland. There were good relations between the Jews of Bobowa and the Długoszowski family[3] (Kazimierz, the elder brother, appears with Grand Rabbi Ben Zion Halberstam on the cover of the book “Jewish Society in Poland” [4]). ”

    “He was freed thanks to the intervention of his future wife Bronisława Wieniawa-Długoszowska with the much feared Cheka operative Yakovleva, then in charge of the prison. Bronisława was at that time married to the lawyer Leon Berenson, the lawyer of Felix Dzerzhinsky, the head of the Cheka. She was a Lutheran, her family having converted from the Jewish faith when she was eight.”

    • Replies: @Sean
  371. Sbaker says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    What is the point in posting pictures, or videos, when you and all the other CTs would immediately declare to be fake. Do your own research, and think, woman, think.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  372. @Sbaker

    Woman? Confused much? As to the pics or videos of aircraft wreckage that would have fallen to the ground after crashing into WTC 1 & 2, I take it that you don’t have any. I thought so.

    • Replies: @Sean
  373. Sean says:
    @j2

    Below is a photo of the grassy knoll fence area that Files (who is doing life for for shooting a cop when stopped in a stolen car) said he fired from behind. It’s maybe too big big to fit so you may have to click on a little icon to get it. When you get the photo click again to magnify.

    Here is a schematic to aid identification on points of interest. Again it’s big so you many have to click on an icon

    The fence and surrounding area is overlooked by a rail stockyard control tower and the man working there, Lee Bowers, said there was one or two uniformed parking attendants well back from it and two men in the gap between the pergola and the fence and at the time the shots were fired “no one” was behind the fence. He also said there was a policeman at the fence immediately after the shots were fired. Files would have to have made his rifle and himself invisible to get out of where he said he was, and as we know he is not very good at getting away from the police

    The people watching from a window directly below Oswald’s heard three shots above and the muzzle blast even brought dust down from the window frame. Oswald’s first shot hit a light post

    Parts of the disintegrated bullet were seen to caused sparks as the hit the road behind the limo. One person was stuck by pavement fragments. Having missed his easiest and safest shot, Oswald took a few seconds to then re-positioned and then fired hitting Kennedy in the upper back.

    We know what happened next because Oswald at his window was seen by Howard Brennan across the road :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Brennan

    And I glanced up. And this man that I saw previous was aiming for his last shot. . . . Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure himself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared

    Oswald went back to the rooming house where he was living and got a revolver, then he shot a policeman, paused to reload (in the street!) went into a into a cinema without paying and when police tried to arrest him he drew his revolver and tried to shoot them too. Oswald killed a Dallas cop and despite the FBI warning them to protect Oswald (revealed in 2017, the Dallas police made it easy for anyone who wanted to kill Oswald. So they got teas justice for the death of their fellow officer, which is the one of the killings Oswald did that they were all most upset about.

    I am afraid j2 it was Oswald, not incompetent non Italian street criminals like Files who claim to be Mafioso, or even Assman of the KGB. No wonder Gustafsson was not suspected. A “a scenario which explains all facts” indeed.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Ians
  374. Sean says:
    @j2

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodge_Mother_Kilwinning
    The Freemasons did not get started as a bunch of builders, gratis or otherwise. Of that we can be sure. Some say the traditions of Freemasony indicate they came from the Knights Templar, and the Freemasons did the Peasants Revolt of Wat Tyler although the Freemasons were an actual secret society until after the fall of the Catholic Stewart Kings so it is not known for sure that they were about then. The rules and traditions of Freemasonry, which include the requirement to helping fugitive fellow Masons, are good evidence it was originally a subversive organisation at least as far as Catholic Kings were concerned and as late as the French revolution it maybe still was, but it was not at all nationalistic. The Orange Order and the lesser known Black Institution ate clearly based on the Freemasons and the Orangemen are an establishment organisation of Ulster Protestant paricularists, not subversives.

    But j2 you cannot put modern Freemasony (not illegal but merely forbidden to Catholics) and Freemason like-societies into the same category as made sense for modern genuinely secret societies that were illegal. The Black Hand were an association of nationalistic Serbian military officers led by a man who hacked the royal family to death and supposedly kept a piece of the Queens’ breast in his wallet as a memento, then started WW1 by means of an assassination of a head of state. After President Kennedy was assassinated everyone, including the Soviets, were worried that things would get out of control in the same way as historian Barbara W. Tuchman had made people think the assassination of the Archduke had accidentally started WW1 had. But the Black Hand Society’s leader Colonel Dragutin Dimitrijević had intended the Archduke’s assassination to start WW1.

    http://www.unz.com/pfrost/they-really-did-start-it/

    Can a small country start a big war? We have the example of the First World War, which was caused by Serbia—or rather by advocates of a Greater Serbia who saw the Austro-Hungarian Empire standing in their way. The empire had to be destroyed, and its destruction could come about only through a major global conflict. Serbia paid dearly for the First World War, but the payback was considerable. When the spoils were divided up in 1918, Serbia more than doubled in land area, becoming comparable in size to the large states of Western Europe. The dream of Greater Serbia had come true.

    Oswald got the Kennedys off Castro’s back, Osama got the US Army out of Saudi Arabia, and Dimitrijević got Serbia doubled in size. Not bad going for patsies, eh?

    • Replies: @j2
  375. denk says:

    Ever wonder how did the 5lies get away scot free,
    with centuries of wars, FF, black ops ?

    Cuz they’r the judge, prosecutor and executioner,
    all in one.

    Exhibit A
    Bali bombing.

    Joe Vialls,
    ‘At 11 pm on 12th October, 2002, the Sari club in Jakarta was ripped apart.
    No group stepped forward to take public responsibility. Immediately after the bombing, the FBI, the Australian Secret Service and British secret police swooped in to the bomb site and took charge of the investigation,. The Indonesian authorities and the Balinese police were indignant but powerless to intervene. The first people on the scene almost immediately were the FBI, despite it being a 17-hour journey from the USA. Australian police arrived within 24 hours. The actual bombers may have escaped from Jakarta airport that night, as flight logs were found to be missing from air traffic control that day and the night of the 12th, and for no other night.’

    Exhibit B
    Malaysian airline disasters,

    When the CIA, FBI took charge of the Mh370 ‘investigation’, the Malaysian police chief lamented,
    ‘Dont think we’ll ever find out the truth‘ !

    Mh17 forensic was done by the Dutch, a Nato member, aka murkkan vassal, how did it turn out ?
    Blaming the Russians !

    Tip of an iceberg….

    With the inmates running the asylum,
    the fox guarding the chicken coops,
    what could go wrong ??

  376. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Firemen reported an “overpowering smell of kerosene” in the third floor elevator entrance.There is always the evidence of the people burned to death in the lobby by the ignited plane fuel which came down the elevator shaft and into the lobby Jules Naudet walked into the North Tower lobby minutes after the first aircraft struck, and saw victims on fire including a woman with her clothes and hair burned off, and her her eyes sealed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Manning#Surviving_9/11_attacks_(2001)

    As she entered through the glass doors of the North Tower’s West Street entrance, the first jet was crashed into the 96th floor, cutting through elevator shafts that ran the full height of the building and giving the explosive fires a direct path to the first floor lobby. Moments later, as she turned towards the elevators that would take her up to her office, a wall of fire from the jet fuel explosion blasted from the elevator shafts, enveloping Manning and setting her aflame.[10][2] Manning fought the back draft and pushed out through the building doors and onto the sidewalk outside.[13] She ran across the six lanes of West Street …

    Being set on fire it has a way of concentrating your mind. It’s not in my power to ensure that nothing like that does or does not ever happen to you or not, but if it did I suspect it might give you a new perspective on your fallibility. Schizophrenics tend to be less susceptible to wound shock or stress, unfortunately they are suceptable to fantasies of omnipotence.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  377. j2 says:
    @Sean

    Thanks, finally you gave your scenario. I will not comment it. I have looked at the problem earlier in order to solve it to myself, not for somebody else, you have looked at the problem probably in order to solve it to yourself. I have no interest in trying to convince somebody of my solution, you probably also do not have interest in convincing people of your solution, but it is good that you wrote down your solution and somebody interested may look at it. That interested person is not me.

    • Replies: @Sean
  378. j2 says:
    @Sean

    There are subversive secret societies that have no connection to Freemasons, you find many such from other cultures. The Black Hand was a secret terrorist organization, not really a secret society in the same sense as e.g, the Mizraim lodges. I have no knowledge that the Black Hand would have been created by Freemasons or would have been a pseudo-Masonic in form. As far as I know it was a nationalistic secret terrorist organization.

    The role of Freemasons is here not that they created the Black Hand, or that they infiltrated the Black Hand, or that the Black Hand was in the larger sense Masonic, i.e., there was a personal connection in leaders. To my knowledge the Black Hand did not have such connections.

    But the assassination of the Archduke had to be approved by Serbian intelligence, and very possibly the idea of assassinating the Archduke came to the Black Hand from Serbian intelligence. That is, if the Black Hand got the weapons and training from Serbian intelligence, it was a tool used by Serbian intelligence. Intelligence is a more powerful organization than a nationalistic group of terrorist. Thus, let us assume the idea came from Serbian intelligence. How did Serbian intelligence get this idea. A clue is that Freemasons were aware of this idea, which is shown by the note in the Catholic newspaper: “a high Mason was heard to say, the Archduke is a fine man, too bad he has to die before taking power”. As Freemasons were a wider and more powerful organization than Serbian intelligence, it is a fair guess to assume that if they had pre-knowledge of something, this something was their idea, not the idea of Serbian intelligence. Thus, assassination of the Archduke was decided by Freemasons.

    Maybe you know or do not know that Russian Bolsheviks were given the power by Freemasons. In Russia was created subversive Freemasonry shortly before the Bolshevik revolution. It was these Freemasons who had the power over the military and other important issues and they gave the power to Bolsheviks. Do not underestimate Freemasons. Franco did not.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  379. Ians says:
    @Sean

    He received basic training, not intensive. He was a poor shot. The shot that struck JFK in the back only penetrated half a finger length and would not have left him paraplegic or anything like it. This bullet was supposedly the ‘magic bullet’. The position of the cartridge cases was determined by the fact that a Dallas cop picked them up and then laid them down again. The ‘last two shots coming close together’ proves there was no lone gunman. LHO could not have got to the site of the Tippit killing in time. The killer shot Tippit from a few feet away, son ot difficult to accomplish.
    Your post is a farrago of nonsense. Please stop posting these easily rebutted assertions.

    • Replies: @Sean
  380. Ians says:
    @Sean

    Stop posting idiotic nonsense. Brennan couldn’t identify LHO at the line up. How on earth could he have given a detailed description from a brief glance at a faraway window when his eyesight was poor?
    Files wasn’t there. He’s a self-publicist.

  381. Sean says:

    Dimitrijević was Chief of Serbian Military Intelligence, and the Black Hand Society. And he started WW1 and doubled the size of his country. Leadership, not ever expanding committees.

    It is like saying the Illuminati were once influential, so they must still be. The Illuminati were anti Catholic, anti Monarchy and secret. So was Freemasonry, once . But to go from the reasonable idea, shared by mainstream historian Billington, that the Freemasons (and Illuminati) were quite influential a few hundred years ago, to assuming that their influence has been accumulating ever since.

    It is as if you find out someones great, great, great, great, great, great grandparent had 100 dollars in the bank, calculate what compound interest on the principle ever since would amount to, and assume he can put his hands on a hundred million or whatever. Freemasonry has been influential and was the focus of Anti-clericalism as in the 1905 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Des_Fiches

    In that case, yes Freemasons had power over the military, and it probabally explains a lot about French military incompetence in WW1, But as with the French Revolution it produced As for the Russian Revolution I would go back to the lost war with Japan to explain the 1905 Russian Revolution and the loss of WW1 to explain the Bolshevik Revolution. Franco was up against anticlericalism, and because Spain was a very Catholic country I suppose part of that was people who were Freemasons, but by that time Marxism was far stronger. And communist brought fascism into being. These tendencies assume different forms in different eras, you cannot just assume the same organisation is active.

    • Replies: @j2
  382. Sean says:
    @j2

    Not mine. It is the current consensus. Of course you do not find it interesting.

    • Replies: @j2
  383. Sean says:
    @Ians

    My mistake, Marine basic training is intensive about polishing boots. but not rifle practice.

  384. @Sean

    I have not seen the video of firemen reporting “an overpowering smell of kerosine” but I have viewed the ones where firemen report the large explosions down in the basement and others where firemen report sequential explosions and demonstrate it with hand gestures. Those are likely the same explosions than can be clearly seen by anyone with functioning eyesight simply watching videos of the building’s exterior as they came down. I would appreciate you providing information on how that can be attributed to kerosine. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Sean
  385. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    1 Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.
    Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company’s management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.
    https://www.haaretz.com/1.5410231

    2 https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2005/09/19/covering-the-tracks-of-the-anthrax-attacks/-
    Assaad. The Courant reports:
    “Documents from the inquiry show that one unauthorized person who was observed entering the lab building at night was Langford’s predecessor, Lt. Col. Philip Zack, who at the time no longer worked at Fort Detrick. A surveillance camera recorded Zack being let in at 8:40 p.m. on Jan. 23, 1992, apparently by Dr. Marian Rippy, a lab pathologist and close friend of Zack’s, according to a report filed by a security guard.”
    The harassment of Assaad, detailed here, took on bizarrely juvenile forms: an obscene poem, a rubber camel delivered to his mailbox, a constant stream of racist anti-Arab remarks such as one might find posted these days on Little Green Footballs. Court documents reveal a harrowing experience of cruel and relentless persecution carried out by a small clique, including Zack, who called themselves the “camel club.”
    While the anthrax letters received enormous publicity, one mailed missive that might provide a key clue to the identity of the perpetrators has received very little: an anonymous letter, sent in late September before the anthrax drama unfolded, to the military police at the Marine base in Quantico, Va., accused Dr. Assaad of being behind a terrorist plot to unleash biological horrors in American cities. The author revealed a detailed knowledge of Dr. Assaad’s career at USAMRIID and claimed to have formerly worked with him.
    Assaad was interrogated by the FBI on Oct. 3, then let go after the letter was determined to be a hoax. When the effects of the anthrax attacks began to make themselves known, the full horror of what had happened began to dawn on Assaad – but not, apparently, on the authorities. Says Assaad: “My theory is, whoever this person is knew in advance what was going to happen (and created) a suitable, well-fitted scapegoat for this action.” The odd timing of the letter – sent after the anthrax letters were mailed, but before their deadly contents were known – certainly seems to point in this direction. The Courantreports FBI spokesman Chris Murray saying “the FBI is not tracking the source of the anonymous letter, despite its curious timing, coming a matter of days before the existence of anthrax-laced mail became known.” Instead of following the trail of this important clue, investigators went off on a tangent with the Hatfill angle, which proved [.pdf] to be a dead end.
    An Egyptian scientist, albeit one who is an American citizen and had lived in this country for quite some time, had been set up as the scapegoat for the crime – before knowledge of the mailed anthrax was generally known. This same scientist had been the object of a hate campaign generated by virulently anti-Arab co-workers at Ft. Detrick, at least one of whom was videotaped surreptitiously entering the lab at night (after he had been dismissed from his position and was not authorized to enter in any event).
    Whoever wrote the poison pen letter denouncing Dr. Assaad as a potential terrorist in all likelihood knows something about the origins of the anthrax attack. In this context, the crudeness of the messages accompanying the anthrax – “death to America” and “death to Israel” – seems like an obvious effort to divert attention away from the real authors of a crime that goes unsolved to this day.

  386. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    No, of course, one cannot underestimate the Freemasons. But it is notoriously difficult to disentangle the web of relations between the multitude of secret societies created by them for specific tasks and whose members might not be aware of the real agenda of their creators. Usually they hide behind legitimate organizations who operate openly. All secret societies are organized on conspiratorial lines, all have ‘secret masters’ that only few members know. In fact, in all secret societies, members know only the members of their own cells and the immediate superior one. At the same time, the intelligence agencies of any state would necessarily keep an eye on secret societies. What is beyond doubt is the close relation between FM and the British Secret Service. So much so that FM itself was deemed a creation of the British Secret Service.
    In that context it is very difficult to demonstrate that Serbian intelligence was behind the Black Hand, and even more difficult to demonstrate that Russian intelligence was. All speculations about Serbian or Russian responsibility in planning the war are the result of the blame game which followed the actual start of the war and continued at the peace negotiations and in the revisionist policies of the losing states which led to WW2 and the efforts (which started even before the outbreak of the war) of Germany to pose in the innocent victim of Russian plots. Russia had no interests in Germany proper. The alleged Pan-Slavist policy of Russia was a threat only to Austria. BTW, contrary to what people believe, Panslavism was not a ‘Russian thing’. Panslavism was born in Croatia (under Catholic influence) and its primary intention was unification of the Slavs from the Habsburgic Empire. Only occasionally they looked at Russia as a help in their struggle, but generally they were as anti-Russian as the Germans or Hungarians.
    There are a few question marks about the Black Hand.
    One would be the nickname of Colonel Dragutin Dimitrievic, ‘Apis’ – the Egyptian sacred bull. It might be a simple coincidence, but it strongly call to mind the ‘egyptian atmosphere’ of many Masonic branches.
    Secondly, the perceived ‘ideological’ relations with Italian irredentist organizations issued from Masonic Mazzinian ‘Carbonarism’ (La Giovine Italia-Young Italy) and German nationalist societies (Junges Deutschland -Young Germany). The official magazine of the Narodna Odbrana was called Pijemont (Piedmont) directly inspired by the Italian Irredentism, all anti-Austrian organizations.
    In fact relations of Serbian Government with the ‘Black Hand’ were not as friendly as it is alleged. Eventually Dragutin Dimitrievic was tried and executed in 1917 for organizing the assassination of Franz Ferdinand (and for an attempt to assassinate King Alexander Karageorgevic). It resulted, at the Salonika Trial that the Serbian Govt. warned the Austrians of an impending attempt on the life of the Crown Prince.
    It must be stressed that Franz Ferdinand was the advocate of a cautious approach towards Serbia – bringing him in conflict with Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf, Vienna’s hard-line Chief of the General Staff, warning that harsh treatment of Serbia would bring Austria-Hungary into open conflict with Russia, to the ruin of both Empires. Now, it is insistently suggested, without sufficient proofs, but plausible, that Dimitrijević was concerned about Ferdinand’s plans to grant concessions to the South Slavs, fearing that, if this happened, a unified Serbian state would be more difficult to achieve. Although I am of the opinion that the Serbian ‘question’ would have found a more satisfactory solution with the implementation of the United States of Greater Austria. In the plans proposed in 1906 Bosnia and Hertzegovina were left outside Austria. It was the inconsiderate annexation of BH by Austro-Hungary in 1908, opposed by the Serb and Muslim from Bosnia, but enthusiastically applauded by the Croats, which prepared the ground for the Sarajevo shootings (1914, 1992).

    • Replies: @j2
  387. flyer says:

    Has Fred seen this? Has anyone?

  388. gsjackson says:
    @Rurik

    “Sobran died in obscurity, a broken man.”

    Though he certainly got marginalized and had to scramble to make a living for his last 25 years, and health problems at the end must have been awful, I’d still like to think this isn’t really accurate. Joe had a unique way of living that insulated him from customary ways of sizing up a life. He was your classic ivory tower thinker, oblivious to worldly concerns.

    His manner of socializing was to invite friends over to his house for conversation, pretty much every night. For a couple of years in the late ’80s I knew him well enough (after finding myself sitting behind him at a baseball game and introducing myself as Fanboy) to be on a three-times-a-week schedule. I’d often meet others there, such as Paul Gottfried.

    As soon as you walked in the door at Joe’s house (which at the time he shared with three of his kids and a grandchild) you would have to wind your way around all the books, magazines and manuscripts strewn over every square foot of the living room floor and making their way up the stairs on each step. Sometimes his electricity would get turned off because the bill had gone in through the mail slot of the front door and gotten lost in all the clutter. Seriously.

    I don’t think Joe could ever be a broken man, because all he really aspired to was intellectual stimulation and a good polemical joust, and, God willing, he had plenty of that right up until the end. I know he had plenty of admirers, whom he was aware of, and a few financial benefactors. It seemed like a very good life, even after marginalization and banishment.

  389. j2 says:
    @Sean

    Subversive Freemasonry almost stopped after the Paris Commune fell 1871 and Memphis and Mizraim lodge members were granted an amnesty. In colonies subversive Freemasonry continued to the beginning of the 20th century. But in Europe there were still two later instances when Freemasons apparently acted subversively: starting the WWI and giving power to Bolsheviks in Russia. In both cases I assume that these Freemasons acted on somebody’s orders, that is, the financiers.

    Around 1890 some concerned Freemasons got alarmed of subversive Freemasonry, that they maybe did not quite believe existed but after reading Mizraim and Memphis documents (these rites were combined in 1890s) people like Helena Blavatsky and Gerard Encausse warned people of a conspiracy against Russia and all people. Later Theosophy (through Fabians, in Indian independence, in South African separation, and as Nazis) and Martinism (as Synarchy) acted subversively/politically and were against Communists, so that was a new cover of Masonic influence.

    But today it is not Masons, nor any Masonic-type society, with the exception of B’nai B’rith. It is the globalists. If you look at the world today, there is the same Masonic/Communistic one-world idea. This idea is very poor as it causes all these problems that the commenters in this site mention. The idea is good for international investors. Let us briefly look at one Jewish paradox: Jews outside Israel support multiculture and minorities and in Israel they do not. This is easily explained: outside Jews are a minority, so they support minorities against the majority, in their own country they support the majority against minorities. It is natural, any group would very possibly act so. Thus, Jews as an ethnic group only react to the situation. The source if the problem is those who are pushing globalization. Globalization is the reason there are new minorities. (Old minorities are a result of mistakes of the past, like the slave trade). In a minority is created, it causes bigger or smaller problems as it competes with the original population. Borders are the normal way of keeping people where they used to be and avoiding this problem. Globalization is the idea of removing borders that causes these problems.

    Actually the same organization is still active what was active since the Napoleonic wars. That organization, or group, is international investors. They, at some point, created catastrophes through Freemasons, by supporting their revolutionary activities, and later they supported early Communists in their revolutions. There was some logic. It is possible to gain by catastrophes, at least if you can predict them and you can predict something you create. Today these investors supported the fall of Communism, creation of the EU and world globalization. I will not write longer here, I will write a post to my blog to explain this globalization issue better.

  390. j2 says:
    @Sean

    “Not mine. It is the current consensus. Of course you do not find it interesting.”

    Exactly. It is not the current consensus, it is the official theory. This official theory has a number of well known problems:
    1. if there was not a shot from the front, an improbable explanation is needed for the falling direction of JFK
    2. I did look at the Dictabelt carefully when I tried to check if Donald Thomas was correct, or the Warren commission people who claimed to have rebutted Thomas. My conclusion was that I do find more than three shots and suggestive speech periods and it was a conspiracy. The official theory is false.
    3. there is the problem with the defective sight.
    4. there is the problem with the cover-up and especially for me, with the obviously incorrect rebuttal of the paper of Thomas. That rebuttal is out right scientific fraud published in a journal. It is revealing to make echo analysis on the names of the authors of this rebuttal and the Warren commission experts.
    5. all other problems in the official theory, I need not list them here.
    Obviously I think the official theory does not explain all facts and therefore is not the correct scenario. I asked you to find for yourself a scenario that explains all facts, but do as you like. This all started from your comment on two methods of Sherlock Holmes being apparently in contradiction. Then I commented that they are not and added a third method, which Wiz commented and asked me for an explanation, to which question I explained the JFK case. I will drop out of the discussion of the JFK case as it was long discussed in another thread some time ago.

    • Replies: @Sean
  391. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    “Secondly, the perceived ‘ideological’ relations with Italian irredentist organizations issued from Masonic Mazzinian ‘Carbonarism’ (La Giovine Italia-Young Italy) and German nationalist societies (Junges Deutschland -Young Germany). The official magazine of the Narodna Odbrana was called Pijemont (Piedmont) directly inspired by the Italian Irredentism, all anti-Austrian organizations.”

    Indeed, I think you are right. I did not think of this but if the Black Hand was, and it was, one of the Young Europe movements, then that is Masonic. They all were part of a Masonic plan even in countries, like Finland, where there were no Freemasons at that time (as it was forbidden), but there was Young Finns. If so, the Black Hand might very well have got orders for the assassination (or acceptance at least) from Masons. This is logical. Good point, thanks.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  392. Sean says:
    @Felix Culpa

    I don’t know about that. Having a private income and or/not much caring about status in society can disconnect one from giving proper weight to the consensus views of everything. Sobran might have been better off just accepting received wisdom about Shakespeare. But on the other hand it is perhaps better to hold a single harmless conspiracy theory, just to feel superior. Apart from his literary detective work, Sobran did not show signs of entgleisen.

    • Replies: @Felix Culpa
  393. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    I can only suggest you Google 9/11 smell of kerosene. What happened in the basement was people having their clothes and skin burnt off. Google that too, for all the good it will do you.

    Initial impressions you got at the time have made you a disbeliever in the official explanation. You knew from the the begining it was all lies.

    http://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/mental-health/2017/02/17/schizophrenia-from-abnormal-memory-genes/

    It has been proposed that the delusions and false beliefs of schizophrenia occur because irrational associative memories are allowed to persist, despite contradictory experiences. It seems likely that mutations affecting extinction learning could lead to delusions and false beliefs because patients have difficulty in overriding previous incorrect associative memories with new, rational learning.

    Before 9/11 you had seen hundreds of explosions in movies, and actual controlled demolitions and the only evidence you will now believe is what confirms your first impression. I can’t help that and neither can you.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  394. @Sean

    That’s a great video of a pair of training shoes but of no real value beyond that, other than proving that you have nothing whatsoever to back up your nonsense.

    • Replies: @Sean
  395. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    You knew from the very first time you saw the towers come down that it was a controlled demolition.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  396. Sean says:
    @j2

    . In a new study, …, we discovered that schizophrenic patients have mutations in a group of genes responsible for regulating the extinction of associative memories, whilst genes regulating the formation of new associative memories are unaffected.

    “I could hardly imagine a more damning case,” I remarked. “If ever circumstantial evidence pointed to a criminal it does so here.”

    “Circumstantial evidence is a very tricky thing,” answered Holmes thoughtfully. “It may seem to point very straight to one thing, but if you shift your own point of view a little, you may find it pointing in an equally uncompromising manner to something entirely different. […]
    “I am afraid,” said I, “that the facts are so obvious that you will find little credit to be gained out of this case.”

    “There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact,” he answered, laughing. “Besides, we may chance to hit upon some other obvious facts which may have been by no means obvious

    Do you persevere with ways of looking at a problem and have you a faculty for extraordinarily quick learning, music perhaps? Do tunes run through your head ceaselessly?

    • Replies: @j2
  397. @Sean

    Sobran was not canned by Buckley because he thought Ed DeVere was Shakespeare.

    Why are you changing the subject?

    • Replies: @Sean
  398. denk says:

    Aq & co, the gift that keeps on giving,

    or,
    terrorists who keep shooting at their own feet…

    ‘If ever there was a time that the US and UK needed an attack to occur against BRITISH interests, it was well.at about 09:10 GMT on 20 November 2003.

    Many commentators have said that the 9-11 attacks happened at the right time for the US. And I think it is even more clear today that the Istanbul attacks have happened at just the right time for Bush and Blair.

    Either Al-Qaeda doesn’t know what it is doing, or this wasn’t Al Qaeda. Al-Qaeda want the world to see the evil that Bush and Blair are doing. And the protests would have done that. There was no need to bomb Istanbul. The only, and reiterate ONLY people to benefit from the bombings are Bush and Blair. It diverted attention from the protests, to the ‘terrorists’.

    I wish I had terrorists like that on my side. The kind that bomb the UN in Baghdad, the day after the UN say that US forces should leave Iraq. The kind that bomb a Bali nightclub, the week 250,000 Australians took to the streets to protest the war. The kind that bomb a Riyadh compound full of Arabs, when Saudi Arabian citizens are beginning to become increasingly vociferous in their condemnation of the Iraq invasion and occupation.

    Since 9-11, and some say including 9-11, Al Qaeda has practically done everything the US govt would ask its CIA to do. They have killed muslims. They have killed their European supporters. They have timed each bombing to maximise the amount of criticism they will receive and minimise the support for their actions. Is that the actions of the ‘biggest threat to mankind, freedom and democracy’ ? Logic tells me, that it isn’t Al-Qaeda at all.

    Now tell me, what does logic tell you ?’

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5266.htm

  399. j2 says:
    @Sean

    Nice to see you have been reading Sherlock Holmes. I found many of his reasoning methods quite interesting and they certainly can teach logic to someone who may lack it.

    To your guidance, I add three other types of evidence:
    1. Pre-knowledge, like in 911 and the assassination of the archduke, is not circumstantial evidence. It is either a very rare coincidence or a certain indication of a connection.
    2. Mathematical impossibility, as in the official holocaust death toll, is not circumstantial evidence, it is certain. It compares to a logical impossibility.
    3. Scientific conclusions from synchronization of impulse type noise in the Dictabelt with the Zapruder film are logical arguments fro technical data, not circumstantial evidence. They can be compared to using a magnifying glass.

    Schizophrenia is characterized by delusions, hallucinations or false beliefs. I do not have any of these signs. Do you have any? I think a strong belief of the innocence of the ever-innocent does qualify as a false belief as it obviously is both false and a belief.

    I do learn very quickly, but unfortunately am not especially musical and hardly ever do any tunes running in my head, and when solving mathematical problems I am unusually persevarant as all researchers of mathematics and hard sciences have to be. Are you making some kind of a study on commenters in the UR? Maybe for keeping illegal databases of people?

    • Replies: @Sean
  400. DASDBILL2 says:
    @follyofwar

    Fred ignores major parts of the US government’s official and obviously fallacious explanation. The government claims it was a CONSPIRACY of 19 Saudi and Yemeni nationals with Osama bin Laden’s financial backing. This is at least 20 people in one conspiracy, yet the government and most conspiracy deniers want us to dismiss consipiracy theories without mentioning that we must not dismiss the US government’s own conspiracy theory. The gov’s fable also has no explanation for how burning aviation fuel could reach the minimum temperature needed to soften thick beams of construction grade steel when this fuel’s known burning temperature is far, far lower. No explanation is given for the many eye witnesses on the ground who saw puffs of smoke blowing horizontally on each floor from top to bottom and also heard many explosions at the same time as these smoke puffs. What in the crashed planes and spilled fuel caused all of these vertically cascading explosions? No gov explanation exists to explain how about 90% of all the steel and concrete in both 100-story towers literally WERE TURNED INTO DUST which then blew away instead of remaining intact to land on the ground in the form of twisted beams and large smashed chunks of concrete. The amount of rubble on the ground at the end of both collapses was much too small to have been from all 100 floors of each building. No gov explanation is given for the creation of all the energy necessary to blow scores of huge multi-ton beams hundreds of feet horizontally from each building at 30 to 40 miles per hour, as is visible in the videos taken. This huge amount of energy could only have come from the energy given off as each floor supposedly crashed vertically into the next lower floor. Simple engineering formulas should exist which could be used to approximate the energy available from floors falling and compare that to the amount needed to blow all those 30-foot-long dense steel beams sidewards hundreds of feet.
    My comments are all relative to the known laws of physics and not to Fred’s dismissive theory of disembodied uniform malignancy.
    Thousands of professional materials specialists, architects, engineers, et al., have signed the pledge of support for demanding a rigorous investigation into 9/11. The first place to start is NOT who did it, how, or why, but rather exactly WHAT happened, based on all the evidence available (earthquake logs, sound and video recordings, testimony from eye witnesses on the ground, and forensic metallurgical examination of pieces of steel beams and concrete that did not turn to dust and blow away in the wind but rather fell to the ground). Unfortunately, this last source of evidence was quickly confiscated by the federal government and allowed to be sent overseas to be melted down and reused for building new buildings.
    The second part of a real investigation would involve getting expert testimony from the leading experts in construction, architecture, physics, metallurgy, etc., as to what could possibly have caused that which was determined to have happened in step one above.
    And under NO circumstances should any person be put in charge of this investigation who has known financial ties to any entity which might have profited financially from 9/11, such as Henry Kissinger’s appointment as the official 9/11 committee’s chairman.

  401. Sean says:

    The gov’s fable also has no explanation for how burning aviation fuel could reach the minimum temperature needed to soften thick beams of construction grade steel when this fuel’s known burning temperature is far, far lower

    No one, be they experts or members of the public would have predicted that happening from a plane crash with NO explosives to help it along. But then, why a conspiracy, especially a foreign conspiracy, incorporate that astounding event into their false flag and make it the central part of the spectacle? Did they want to do a false flag but make also it make it inherently implausible for some reason?

    The amount of rubble on the ground at the end of both collapses was much too small to have been from all 100 floors of each building.

    Yes I suppose everyone thought that. But why do a false flag in such a way that there was not going to be the huge pile of rubble that everyone was going to be expecting ?

    And under NO circumstances should any person be put in charge of this investigation who has known financial ties to any entity which might have profited financially from 9/11, such as Henry Kissinger’s appointment as the official 9/11 committee’s chairman.

    A serious recession was the likely result of 9/11. If it was a false flag, it was by a foreign government.

  402. DickyGee says:

    Wow! Talk about going off “half cocked!” This is like “D minus” work to be sure, illustrating extraordinary cluelessness of even the major alternative conspiracy theories that contradict the “official 9/11 conspiracy theory and no real examination of the breadth of research surrounding the JFK assassination. It’s not even an intelligent rant . . . just a mish mosh of self-congratulatory vomit. Fred needs to “specialize” in something that he can actually write about with credibility.

  403. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    There is no doubt that the modus operandi of conspirators is ‘plausible deniability’. It is the rule of any covert operation. A conspiracy, by definition, has to cover its traces, use decoys, deception, but has to recruit a sufficient number of ‘operatives’ to be able to achieve its goals. It would exploit popular grievances unrelated to their goals.
    The goal of an ‘international conspiracy’ was the ‘containment’ and eventually the destruction of Russia by the Anglo-sphere. The fixation on the European theater of operations obscures the fact that the war against Russia started in the Far-East. The centers of the ‘conspiracy’ were in Britain and America. They exploited Serb nationalism, all nationalisms actually.

    • Replies: @j2
  404. Sean says:
    @j2

    Scientific conclusions from synchronization of impulse type noise in the Dictabelt with the Zapruder film are logical arguments from technical data, not circumstantial evidence.

    There are still things being worked out about Zapruder’s film. It is dubious that the original synchronization of it with the actual shots is correct. For one thing the shooting was too fast on the Warren timings. One has to reverse engineer the sniper(s)’ problems.

    This is a recreation of Oswald views https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_875.pdf

    There were a dozen armed men facing the way Kennedy was in the limos including at least one Secret Service agent with an M16 at his feet that was cocked and only needed the safety off to be brought into action. For Oswald in his window, aiming a rifle would be perilously conspicuous–too many eyes he could catch. Actually firing at Kennedy as he approached was suicide (also applies to any one shooting at Kennedy from in front on him after he had made the turn). But, once the turn had been made no one would be looking at Oswald’s window.

    Warren proposed this as a possible first shot calling it Position A, but did not include it in the report. Today there is little doubt of Oswald’s best opportunity to shoot Kennedy being long before the Warren timings on the Zapruder film have suggested that Oswald took his first shot, which entirely missed the limo for some reason, (ricocheted off of a traffic light probably). Those timings having him him firing much too fast are resolved if it took 11 seconds instead of 8 or 6. The way the shell cases were lying suggests one shot was fired from a different position to the last two (which hit Kennedy). The first shot is now increasingly widely thought to have been fired before Warren’s suggested time for it. Warren had Oswald firing through the tops of trees, but that would mean he did not take his most tempting opportunity to shoot, yet then tried a much more obviously challenging through-leafy-treetops first shot on a moving target.

    Notice the trees, Kennedy’s limo, from Oswald’ viewpiont, was less clear because of the treetops for a little while, but if he waited a couple of seconds he had another opportunity and him doing that and then getting off two shots on target is consistent with the reports from bystanders that there was a shot, then a pause, and then two shots close together for a total of three.

    Kennedy had been hit in the back by the second shot and all the Secret Service in the following limo were well and truly alerted by that point with the AR15 coming out. Anyone shooting at Kennedy from the front then and in the line of sight of the now alerted dozens of armed men guarding Kennedy, would draw a hail of return gunfire fire and a rush by Dallas police making escape very unlikely. In my opinion only a very unusual person would have agreed to fire head on, actually doing so so after loosing the element of surprise was still more extraordinary.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
  405. @Sean

    No, not immediately. Like everyone I was in shock at first. Suspicions began with the too soon to be credible release of the names of the “perps” and other info such as the littering of copies of the Koran. It became clearer and clearer the more that I looked at the footage too. It only requires a spacial understanding of physics to know those buildings would not have come down completely as they did.

    It matters little how quickly anyone determined that the events were not as was being described, just that they understood that there was lying and fraud taking place on a massive scale.

    • Replies: @Sean
  406. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    If one starts from the premise that 9/11 was a false flag intended to justify an invasion of Iraq, then Saudi Arabians and Yemenis with Korans are odd. The Neocon had no great objection to Muslim immigrants and they began a withdrawal from Saudi Arabia as soon as they occupied Iraq. Someone’s thinking was disorganized, or is.

    ‘Clearer and clearer’ suggests you never thought the planes and fire were the cause of the collapse. Indeed, your scoffing at the idea of jet fuel around when the firemen arrived suggests you deny that any planes did crash into a WTC. And you claim that the laws of physics rule out the possibility of fires following plane crashes bringing down the towers. It seems to me that you doubled down from a reasonable intuition that it may have been a false flag, to a objectively dubious certainty the collapse could not happen the way claimed, and a finally a knight’s move delusion that you have grounds for thinking no planes had hit the towers anyway.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  407. j2 says:
    @Sean

    The Audiograph has signs of having been tampered, while the Dictabelt looks to me as authentic.
    Synchronization of the Dictabelt with the Zapruder film is not so difficult. First we identify the impulses with wide spectrum and a suitable pulse length from the Dictabelt as possible gunshots.
    I will not go to this stage, but I wrote an article
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Kennedy_article1.pdf
    Let us ignore this article for a while and your objections that the Dictabelt would not have the shots or something like that. If it would not have the shots, there would not have been tampering of the Audiograph in order to hide the synchronization, so the shots are there. As they are there, they can only be the impulses with wide spectrum and a suitable pulse length.

    Then we find the impulses. See the following article of mine
    http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Kennedy_article2-2.pdf
    In the copy of the Dictabelt I use in this article the clear impulses are at 52.5s, 55.6s and 58.8s. Additionally there are less clear impulses at 53.2s and 55.8s, and one may identify an impulse at 58.9s if one assumes that there was additionally a shot to the head from the front. That is, this impulse does not follow from the Dictabelt, but the Dictabelt is not in contradiction with such an impulse, see figure 17. There may be two impulses, at 58.8 ans 58.8s.

    After finding these impulses, there is no other possibility than to set 58.8s to the head shot. Then you can find the times for the other shots from the video speed. You find a shaken frame at the time 52.5s. It is a miss. The impulse at 55.6s is at the time shown in figure 12. And that is three shots.

    Then you ask when Connelly got his wounds. The frame 53.2s is blurred, agreeing with there being an impulse at that time. The assumption is that the cameraman reacts to the shot noise. Connelly was shot before frame 256, says the Warren commission. The likely time he was shot is 53.2s. That is four shots and your theory of three shots by Oswald is false.

    Additionally I prefer to have a shot at 58.9s because I find unconvincing (though not totally impossible) the theory that falling to the back and to the side was caused by pressure in the brain exploding to the front and pushing to body to the back. This last shot, however, does not have any importance: four shots were needed ignoring the last shot.

    The only way to maintain the three shots from Oswald theory is that JFK and Connally were shot at 53.2s, but what then is the clear impulse at 55.6s? It is covered by beeps in figure 20 so it cannot be well seen, but in the power spectrum the impulse is very clear.

    • Replies: @Sean
  408. j2 says:
    @Seraphim

    “The goal of an ‘international conspiracy’ was the ‘containment’ and eventually the destruction of Russia by the Anglo-sphere. The fixation on the European theater of operations obscures the fact that the war against Russia started in the Far-East. The centers of the ‘conspiracy’ were in Britain and America. They exploited Serb nationalism, all nationalisms actually.”

    The Great Britain has always had its own clandestine strategy. It includes keeping no continental power from ruling the Continent. It also includes containment of Russia. The USA did not yet before the WWI focus on the world: still at that time the USA mainly wanted to rule both Americas. There is no doubt that the Anglo-sphere (the Great Britain, former colonies, the USA, and Israel) has today common goals and strategies. Russia also has goals and strategies, like getting access to the seas. Intelligence agencies of these powerful countries carry out operations and create conspiracies in order to support these goals. We know that these organizations exist and they work under covers of other organizations. Thus, they may create terrorist groups or insurgencies and such.

    Then we know that there was the Masonic conspiracy, as there was the Communistic conspiracy, in the history, though they are not active any more.

    Your claim is that the Anglo sphere governmental players were behind the Masonic and maybe also Communistic conspiracy. That is a possible opinion, but I do not think it is the correct answer as the conspiracy often did not work on the interests of those countries. But it worked on the interests of international speculators. The conspiracy is alive today and pushes globalization. Think who benefits from globalization. I do not think it is the Great Britain or the USA, they both start having problems with immigrants, and immigration is a part of the one world goal of this conspiracy.

    I may be wrong, but I think it is the bankers’ club and the Anglo sphere is just a partner.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  409. j2 says:
    @Sean

    The Dictabelt – Zapruder film synchronization argument is very simple and quite strong:

    There are three clear impulses in the Dictabelt, at 52.5s, 55.6s and 58.8s. They hardly can be anything but shots. They have a wide spectrum and must have been loud bangs just like shots.
    There are possible weaker signals at 53.2s, 53.8s, 55,8s, they may or may not be shots.
    Additionally there are two impulses at 44.0s and 45.3s.

    The bell in the Dictabelt around 56s and the speech periods make timing more certain.

    Now, assign 58.8s to the frame 313 when JFK gets a shot to the head.
    Then 52.5s is at the frame 197, which is blurred. This fits to the assumption that the shot noise surprised the cameraman. Nobody was hit at the frame 197, so it was a miss.

    If so, then 55.6s is at the frame 254. JFK may indeed get something to his throat at 254. Not a bullet, but maybe a bounced bullet or a sprinkle of something,

    But that is three bullets already. Connally was hit before the frame 254. Thus, there had to be a fourth shot.

    That’s it. Then we can for completeness try to locate the fourth shot. If it is the impulse in 53.2s, then it would be the frame 215. As these weaker impulses (from some other weapon) are unclear, we cannot be sure, but that does not matter. It was a conspiracy.

  410. Sean says:
    @Felix Culpa

    Enoch Powell also thought Shakespeare didn’t write his plays, but Powell had the intellect to come with his own ideas about his country so he could afford to. Like almost all gentiles Sobran was vulnerable to the persuasive abilities of Jews and he became entranced by the ideas of Murray Rothbard. Sobran did not take much from Buckley you notice, although Buckley was the one who had given Sobran a fantastic job, and defended him under pressure. Sobran was not grateful at all and complained that Gore Vidal had been better supported against the allegation of antiSemitism. It wasmore than a little unfair because Buckley insisted when there was allegations of antiSemitism against Sobran and demands to fire him that Sobran just did not get the taboos about discussing Jews and Israel, which became increasingly important to Buckley as he became close to Irving Kristol and others of his kidney. I would note that in attacking Zionist Jews and Sobran was following Rothbard.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard

    The Libertarian Forum blamed the Middle East conflict on Israeli aggression “fueled by American arms and money”. Rothbard warned that the Middle East conflict would draw the United States into a world war. He was anti-Zionist and opposed United States involvement in the Middle East. Rothbard criticized the Camp David Accords for having betrayed Palestinian aspirations and opposed Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon.[103] In his essay, “War Guilt in the Middle East”, Rothbard states that Israel refused “to let these refugees return and reclaim the property taken from them”.[104] He took negative views of the two state solution for the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, saying:

    On the one hand there are the Palestinian Arabs, who have tilled the soil or otherwise used the land of Palestine for centuries; and on the other, there are a group of external fanatics, who come from all over the world, and who claim the entire land area as “given” to them as a collective religion or tribe at some remote or legendary time in the past. There is no way the two claims can be resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. There can be no genuine settlement, no “peace” in the face of this irrepressible conflict; there can only be either a war to the death, or an uneasy practical compromise which can satisfy no one. That is the harsh reality of the Middle East.[105]

    As he got older and mentally diminished, Sobran was less able to resist the siren song of Murray Rothbard (“…the state was nothing but a criminal gang writ large”) Sobran started to a give more and more credence to the Jewish Rothbard’s criminal collusion theory of countries not only in in relation to the recently founded Jewish state Israel but the American government.

    Modern conspiracy theories are much like comic book superheroes, a genre totally invented by Jews that speaks to and exploits certain aspects of human nature (that is why Marvel movies are taking over Hollywood). The JFK conspiracy theory was created by a Jew and so was the 9/11 conspiracy theory. A Jew comes up with it then then some white Gentile tweaked the Jewish author’s theory that a Texan politician in bed with the military and big oil was behind the JFK assassination, or the 9/11 attack, and writes a book blaming Israel the Jews and the American state.

    So getting back to the point, while it is true that Buckley under the influence of a Jewish intellectual movements, the aging Buckley was drawn away from his earlier positions (which Peter Brimelow and Pat Buchanan held to) Sobran was no less influenced by a Jewish guru.

    • Troll: apollonian
  411. Seraphim says:
    @j2

    I think that the idea that USA did not focus on the world before WW1 is wrong. Its expansion in the Pacific started in 1853 by the ‘opening of Japan’ and increasing meddling in Chinese affairs, importation of Chinese coolies for the building of railways. Acquisition of the Philippines happened before WW1. The ‘Open Door Policy’ was formulated in 1899.
    It was the extension of ‘manifest destiny’ across the Pacific Ocean. The advocates of the manifest destiny were not shy: “Save America for America’s sake, but, Save America for the world’s sake”, “to establish on earth the moral dignity and salvation of man”, “United States would be one of a “Union of many Republics” sharing those values (of equality, rights of conscience, and personal enfranchisement)”. Is not that ‘globalization’?
    Of course that behind this ‘manifest destiny’ were the ‘international speculators’ whose banks and stock markets and clubs are not in the stratosphere but in… London and New York.

  412. Sean says:
    @j2

    You discount the conclusion of an expert panel selected from the US National Academies that analysed those sound recordings, and continued to defend their conclusion in the face of criticism. I hope you will not take this too hard but I feel the National Academies are the most reliable authority.

    The significance of gunshot sounds was greatest on the day and would be immediate because the police and Secret Service would be able to use the sounds to know where they were coming from.

    https://www.history.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_700/MTU3ODc4NjAxNjM2NzE4MzAz/image-placeholder-title.webp

    There is overwhelming agreement by witnesses that there were three shots with the gap noticeably long between the first and second. Two of Oswald’s ejected shells lay together with a third lying away from the others. Witness Howard Brennan noticed Oswald in the window before Kennedy got there, and later saw Oswald fire for the last time and said he was standing with his left shoulder braced against the window frame. That fits with an early shot as soon as the cars were driving away with the occupants backs to him and he did not have to worry about being shot at by JFKs bodyguards, and then the other shots over the treetops as after a couple of seconds delay the car came into Oswald’s unobstructed view.

    The last shot came after the car full of armed (including with an AR15) Secret Service agents were alerted that someone was shooting, and quite apart from their ears giving them an idea there is a thing called muzzle flash would tell them where any firing in front was coming from. They would have immediately shot at anyone firing in their field of vision, and so it would be suicide to fire at Kennedy from anywhere in front, whether that was the overpass, behind the Grassy Knoll or another place.

    A secondary reason is the limo driver was panicked by the second shot and possibly Connolly’s exclamation that they’d all be killed. As the driver cowered he almost halted the limo and made JFK a sitting duck for the last shot, but that was a gift of Lady Luck, and was not at all what an assassination team would have anticipated and built their tactics around. A multiple shooters plan for the assassination would be to get the shots from all the snipers together not seconds apart because Kennedy’s driver would be expected to floor the accelerator and possibly swerve after one shot. This idea of a plan kill Kennedy that involved several shots on him in the limo over several seconds is unrealistic. There was a noticeable delay after the first shot remember. Moreover, after a shot missed, Kennedy himself could have been expected to move in the limo to get his wife down and made himself a difficult target.

    Assuming for the sake of argument there was a second sniper, once he had heard the shots from Oswald any such second marksman would know there was now zero chance of getting away if he tried a shot against the presidential limo. Firing several seconds after Oswald could not possibly have been part of a plan, because any second sniper, no matter how well camouflaged, would have been pinpointed by the combination of the gunshot noise and the muzzle flash, and if not riddled with bullets would have been rushed and pursued. There was in any event a policeman at the Grassy Knoll fence immediately after the shots and Bowers could see there there had been was no one there during the shooting. The spacing of the shots, even if it was only 8 seconds if evidence for one person firing. If there was a second sniper he did not fire, and that is why he was not caught.

    • Replies: @j2
  413. j2 says:
    @Sean

    “I hope you will not take this too hard but I feel the National Academies are the most reliable authority. ”

    Maybe you will explain why these experts had very many Jews among themselves and what might be the idea of taking a world-known nuclear weapon expert to an investigation of radio signals of handguns. I hope you will not take this too hard, but my expertise is much better suited to analyzing spectra of communication signals, including hand gun shots. There is a paper that these experts wrote as a rebuttal of a paper by Donald Thomas. I warmly recommend that you check their argument. My comments on it are in the first paper I gave a link to, I copy it here. Just check this:

    “Look at the article [2] in a peer-reviewed journal. On page 225 the article purports to give a counterproof to Thomas [1] suggestion that Hold1 on Channel 1 has jumped to an earlier place and SB is the displacement of Hold1 from its correct place on Ch1. Linsker et al state that on Channel 2 the time from Check2 to Hold2 is 99.1 seconds and from Hold2 to You2 is 143,1 seconds. They also say that on Channel 1 the time from Check1 to Hold1 is 12.5 seconds and from Hold1 to You1 is 172.9 seconds. Thus, on Channel 2 the time from Check2 to You2 is 242.2 sec, while on Channel 1 the time from Check1 to You1 is 185.4 sec. They notice that Channel 1 has no pauses but Channel 2 has pauses. Therefore the time on Channel 1 cannot be shorter than the time on Channel 2. Thus, Check1 cannot be a crosstalk of Check2, which was to be proven, but this is not a valid proof.
    So, what is wrong? The times [2] gives are wrong. Hold2 on Channel 2 is about one minute after the first shot on JFK. Check2 on Channel 2 is 11 sec before the first shot. You2 is about 1 min after Hold2 on Channel 2. So from Check2 to Hold2 on Channel 2 is about 71 sec and from Hold2 to You2 is about 60 seconds. In total from Check2 to You2 on Channel 2 is about 131 seconds, not 242.2 seconds. On Channel 1 the time from Check1 to You1 is 182.7-183.6 seconds, it is indeed longer than the time from Check2 to You2 on Channel 2. There is no contradiction: Channel 2 has more pauses than Channel 1 (which also has pauses before You1 as was shown before). This absurd proof in [2] and the wrongly given times are enough reason to suspect the correctness of [2].
    What seems to be behind this is more absurdity. Originally a police officer made a copy of the Dictabelt by transferring the data via a small memory device. He had to copy the data in many parts and he took parts that overlap. As a result, the copy had repetitions. Originally the repetitions were removed in the analysis, as is correct. In [2] and [3] it is stated that the repetitions should not have been removed, which may be the reason for these odd times in [2]. The reason given why the repetitions should not have been removed is that the head in the Dictabelt machine moves with a fixed speed, thus if it makes repetitions, somewhere else there must be omissions. This of course is absurd. There were no repetitions originally: they were made by copying the data in small parts. There is no way a single head can write the same data twice.”

    So, we have Jewish researchers who publish a rebuttal with a clearly wrong elementary calculation. These are the people you consider authorities. They are very similar to the Jewish reliable authorities who have researched the holocaust for a very long time but have not noticed that the Auschwitz Jewish death toll has an upper bound of 300,000. They are also very similar to the reliable authorities who have analyzed the WTC event and never noticed the problem that observed very high temperatures cannot be achieved with jet fuel and normal office material. The problem with these reliable authorities is that they have an agenda to get the result that is asked from them. The only reliable thing in them is that they do not hesitate to make false statements if such is required from them. Most researchers are not so reliable. They do write what they think is correct.

    I say like this, if you have sufficient intelligence for research on hard fields, let’s say over 150, and sufficient education, let’s say a doctorate or preferably considerably over that beginner level, do your own research on these conspiratorial topics and do not trust “the most reliable authorities”. (Or if you necessarily have to trust authorities, trust Finnish experts, they do not have any hidden agenda here). But you do not need any authorities, just do it. The Dictabelt is available, so is the Audiograph and the Zapruder film. Just analyze them yourself. It is not difficult compared to the problems researchers normally solve.

    You will first notice that the Audiograph has been tampered as it had in Hold too regular signal form, see my first paper and check my claim from the data. Then you ask, why is it tampered, why the most reliable authorities publish a paper with clearly wrong calculation? Because they want to hide the fact that in the Dictabelt there are the gun shot impulses. There cannot be any other reason for this cover-up. Then you find the impulses. There are not many possible impulses in the recording. A gun shot has a wide spectrum. After a radio channel it still has a wide spectrum. You find freeware tools to get the power spectrum. So, you find exactly the same possible impulses as I did. And you draw exactly the same conclusions as I did: there were more than three shots.

    OK, Sean, show some technical research ability and check this.

    • Replies: @Sean
  414. Sean says:
    @j2

    Membership of the National Academies is by invitation only, everyone in it is a world authority in their field., and they have specialists to assist them .

    Or if you necessarily have to trust authorities, trust Finnish experts, they do not have any hidden agenda here)

    Lots of scientists are Jewish. But all President Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories are 100% Jewish. The first person to publish a JFK conspiracy book and Mark Lane leading author who published several books were Jewish If you believe in JFK conspiracy theories (or 9/11 ones) you are subscribing to a hypothesis which has been originated and popularized by Jews. Other Jews disagree with it, but it is not the work of white gentiles just because they slightly modify it to attribute ultimate responsibility to the Jewish state.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @j2
  415. j2 says:
    @Sean

    “But all President Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories are 100% Jewish.”

    The only book that actually found something was by Piper. I did not realize he is Jewish. However, I have not read any of these books, apart of Piper’s that I read after some commenter here mentioned that my views are similar to Pipers. What I did was that I accidentally found a video by Donald Thomas and though that, Ok, here we have not any conspiracy theoretician but a normal scientist, I will check his argument as Thomas is a zoologist and I was from the exact field needed in checking the problem (the correct field is, by the way, not nuclear weapons, unless you think the JFK murder was connected with some nuclear weapon program of an unnamed country). So I did, and unlike you, I am fully able to do it.

    “Membership of the National Academies is by invitation only, everyone in it is a world authority in their field.”
    I see, all world authorities are American and strangely, the invitation goes more often to one ethnic group, so it often does when there is a bias, but exactly how does being a world authority on nuclear weapons relate to analyzing such a simple thing than looking at the power spectrum. Our second year students in communications can do it perfectly well. I mean, they have passed the course on signal processing and Fourier transform and that is all you need. But of course, assuming that JFK was assassinated with a hydrogen bomb, you do need the nuclear weapon expert.

  416. j2 says:
    @Sean

    “Membership of the National Academies is by invitation only, everyone in it is a world authority in their field., and they have specialists to assist them .”

    I guess you see what is odd with this. Assassination of JFK was a crime. In order to investigate a crime you collect the best group of crime investigators, not a group of top intelligent people. And to help these crime investigators in analyzing the Dictabelt you would normally use experts on that field, that is, signal processing. The only remarkable thing with this committee was that very many of the experts were Jewish though one of the most probably reasons for the assassination was the Middle East.

  417. @Sean

    Your bullshit is about as convincing as is your pseudo-psychiatric diagnosis, this is not Dr Phil online. How much do they pay you for parroting your nonsense? It’s too much anyway. This is The Unz Review chum, and the vast majority of readers can see right through your empty shtick but don’t let that stop you, everyone has to make a living.

  418. turtle says:
    @Bill Jones

    The problem with this theory is what didn’t happen: No Boeing 747’s were grounded

    You win the prize, Sherlock Holmes.
    The dog that did not bark….etc.

    Either:
    A) The official “explanation” is bullshit (your vote, and mine), or
    B) FAA knowingly put the lives of hundreds of thousands of passengers at risk, due to deliberate inaction on a known defect which had already killed hundreds of people.

    Pick one. You cannot have it both ways.

  419. turtle says:

    Questions for Fred:

    1. Why did the limo make a right turn, instead of proceeding straight through Dealey Plaza?
    2. Once the limo made the right turn , for which it necessarily slowed down, why did “Lee Harvey Oswald” (whoever he was) positioned in his “sniper’s nest ” on an upper floor of the TSBD, not take his best shot? Question is multiple choice , like SAT & GRE (which Fred claims to have aced, many moons ago, as did I).
    A) Oswald lost his nerve , and did not regain it until shortly after limo made second turn.
    U. S. Marine with no balls, in other words (doubt Fred will choose this one).
    B) Rifle jammed. Oswald had to unjamb it, which took some time. By then, limo had already made the second turn. Oswald, (Semper Fi) was able to make the kill shot going away, through tree branches. Nice shooting, Marine.
    C) Oswald, CIA operative formerly assigned to U2 spy planes, was just following orders, which were to field test (hot shit!) , super secret guided bullets which can change direction in mid flight. These rounds, as is now commonly known, can hang a U-turn in flight and impinge on the target from an angle as much as 180 degrees from the direction of fire. Thus, a round fired from the rear can hang a U-turn, enter the target’s skull through the forehead, exit through the occipital lobe, thus leaving a large exit wound and depositing large fragment of the target’s skull somewhere to the rear.

    Zapruder film supports choice C, assuming shots came exclusively from TSBD.

    So, what’s your answer, Ricky?

    Inquiring minds want to know…

    • Replies: @Sean
  420. turtle says:

    Only a few people are expert in controlled demolition.
    Well, yeah.
    But, see, there was this Dutch guy named Danny Jowenko who actually was an expert in controlled demolition, who took one look at video of collapse of WTC 7 and said, no doubt about it, this is CD.
    Danny Jowenko died in an auto accident shortly thereafter.
    Probably just coincidence. Fatal auto accidents happen all the time, even in the Netherlands…

  421. turtle says:

    Jesus, Fred.
    You really ought to get a better picture of “tin foil hats.”
    Even at a Presbyterian “liberal arts” college, one might expect the introductory course in electricity and magnetism to be somewhat more rigorous. Does the term “Faraday cage” ring a bell?
    Or are you hearing other voices?

    OIC. No more trips to Walter Reed unless you toe the line.
    This is your form of protest, and it is up to us, your faithful (or faithless) readers, to read between the lines.

  422. Sean says:
    @turtle

    1) Why would they not take such a detour for a parade; Kennedy was not in a cab from the airport. 2) At comment 412 s a photo of the view the car of Secret Service agents behind Kennedy would have after they took the right turn off the Plaza on to Elm. Oswald was in the below top floor leftmost window. Yes, that would be the shot to take if you ignore the bodyguards. But you need to appreciate that for a certain kill he needed a head shot and time to aim.

    Firing at Kennedy from the front would have been too exposed to the eyes of the Secret Service at his top left window for a set-up of more than a second or two, and consequently he would have had to keep his rifle out of sight, then bring it to bear and take a snap shot or at least a very hurried one. Missing would have been the easiest thing in the world under the circumstances of firing right in the face of the phalanx of armed men, and knowing they were going to blow his head off the next moment

    The gunshot and muzzle flash would have been followed by dozens of guns being out, and the cocked AR15 on the floor of the Secret Service car would be up and aimed in a second. Oswald would likely have been shot to pieces before he could fire a second time.

    He missed his first shot which actually was quite an easy one before the trees but with the limo driving away, probably because it hit a light post. With all the firepower facing away he had time to re-position by standing and bracing his left shoulder against the window frame and waiting until the limo cleared the trees. There was consensus among the witnesses that there was a delay after the first shot. Oswald’s second shot was quite difficult not because it was through trees (it wasn’t) but because it was on a moving target.

    Oswald dream was to join the Marines. He was thrown in the shower with his clothes on and ridiculed as Ms Oswald by his fellow recruits . In Japan e got put in the brig for firing a rifle for no reason on guard duty, and unlawful possession of a firearm, which was a .22 Derringer he shot himself with. He got VD (in Dallas massive amounts of penicillin were found among his possessions) and into several fights including one with an NCO he tipped a beer over. Oswald was put in the brig and relegated to janitorial work on the Japanese base before he was kicked out the Marines. He arrived in the USSR aged 19 years old, and was given what was by a Soviet worker’s standards an extraordinarily luxurious apartment. Just as he had complained about capitalists while in the USA, when in the Soviet Union Oswald was angry about Communist party members. His wife said Oswald could not be happy anywhere except maybe on “the Moon”.

    In the several weeks preceding Dallas, Oswald was refused a visa by both Cuba and the USSR, effectively evicted from his family lodgings for beating her though she was pregnant, saw his baby daughter in an old suitcase because he could not afford a cot, lost the only decent job he ever got held after a week, and was forced to do menial work he despised. He was 24 years old.

  423. Sean says:

    Further, the conspiracy theorist–here is the squarely part–seems to live in a world of DUMs– Disembodied Uniform Malignancies. These are a sort of metaphysical clouds that cause large of people to behave as if controlled by some unspecified central entity: The media, the military, governments, law enforcement. This is wacky, but universal among CTs.

    Badly put. Members of organisations do act as if controlled by something outside themselves when they discharge their official duties, or covertly work for a foreign power. People have been convicted for spying for Communist countries (and Israel) out of conviction. A foreign country is a perfectly logical entity to mastermind a clandestine operation against America.

    What I think Fred is arguing against is the idea of a large and vertically integrated enough subset of people employed by the US government going along with such a conspiracy. Working for a government agency even a hush hush one like the CIA is still like being in the army. There is a well understood chain of command and any orders come from the proper authority and if one discharges one’s duties then one will be rewarded. If a cabal inside the CIA (or Mossad) starts to toy with the idea of doing something obviously criminal on their own account (like assassinating their own head of state) then they have the immediate problem of being obeyed by subordinates, The security probelem of taking people into the conspiracy is obvious and I agree with Fred on it. There is also whether the successful power play is going to be the begining or end of things, because everything would be up for grabs even if a conspiracy succeeds.

    Once the taboo against overthrowing the immanent authority of the institution is violated, there is very little to restrain further unraveling. There would be an obvious danger of a inner clique within the original conspiracy’s own forces seizing power by eliminating a minority of the original plotters. From the Mutiny on the Bounty to the An Lushan Rebellion there are many examples in history of the original participants, even the original leader of a a coup being disenfranchised and eliminated by a new and tighter coalition within the original plotters. A high stakes conspiracy is just as dangerous for those at the top as the lowest ranking. Explicit allegiance works well because people tend to instinctively conform to play safe for an explicit organisational structure. ‘I have a pension and two cats’ as Q says when 007 asks for unofficial help. The retirement plan for the shooters or demolition men of a conspiracy is all too predictable.

    The lower down the vertically integrated conspiracy a member of it was, the less sure that members could be that they would be liquidated to keep them quiet or even what they were joining was a large capable conspiracy and not a counter intel sting, or one con man, or a madman, or a hostile foreign power other than the one the thought it was. For example a CIA conspiracy to kill Kennedy could have been actually set into motion and led by Soviet double agents within the CIA for all anyone joining such an ostensible right wing clique could know.

  424. Fred Reed should have established a charity foundation before writing this article.I’ll bet that he’ll receive handsome donations from Israel,Larry Silverstien,the CIA,Henry Kissinger,as well as many other giant corporations,such as Facebook,Google,U tube and twitter,in fact,he can get a fortune by offering to update his recent article for customers who plan to engage in a conspiracies.It’s a sort of an insurance policy,that changes a conspiracy to a conspiracy theory.

  425. Who would have ever thought you could demolish a building with “paint?”

    But ya. In general, conspiracy theories are a personality quirk.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  426. @bongstar420

    I ran that through Google translate but got nothing. Is it in code of some sort? I’m sure it’s well worth reading and possibly profound even. Can you help me out here? In English please. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  427. Horrible article qhere do I even start. Does this guy believe everything the media tells him?

  428. Sparkon says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    The allusion is to test results on WTC dust showing the red-gray chips are paint or paint primer, and not thermite, nano-thermite, super-duper-thermite, or even kinda-sorta-thermite.

    Conclusions

    The red/gray chips found in the WTC dust at four sites in New York City are consistent with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and kaolin clay pigments.

    There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nano-thermite.

    http://aneta.org/911experiments_com/millette/paper/index.htm

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @j2
  429. @Sparkon

    Thank you, I did not know that. My apologies to bongstar420 too. My education continues. Cheers

  430. j2 says:
    @Sparkon

    You are correct Sparkon, the weak part of the Danish paper is the claim that the red chips are energetic and some form of thermite, and their estimate of the amount needed for the whole building. It is much too high to be realistic.

    I think one should drop the red chip claim and reduce the demolition theory to one that is very close to the official theory: one floor collapsed because steel weakened and it caused the rest of the floors to collapse. But to get a symmetric collapse with jet fuel and office stuff seems unlikely. It is some 38,000 liters of jet fuel to a floor about 4,000 square meters, so a bit under 1 cm high layer of fuel even if it would have spread equally to the floor. It does not burn so long as to weaken the steel everywhere equally. So, in one floor there was something else that burned longer. Not thermite paint, something different, put there before the plane crashed, if it crashed. My guess.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Anonymous
  431. @j2

    Some form of explosive cut those columns, you can see for yourself in many instances of explosives going off below the falling debris while watching the videos of the final collapses. The much heavier foundations too were blown out by explosions though likely of a different type according to the seismic evidence. Whatever was used it was of a type that kept an ongoing heat reaction for over a month.

    • Replies: @j2
  432. j2 says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    You are also correct. The video shows what looks like explosions and it may mean explosives and there are the seismic signals (I read a paper analyzing them but have not tried to check it, too far from my area). The alternative explanation to those explosions is the air puffs coming from collapsing floors that press the air of the floor out and that the seismic signals are from falling material. Explosives seem more natural, but I do not know a strong argument that proves beyond any doubt that there were explosives.

    To me it does not matter. As it was a demolition of some kind, the exact way that the building came down is not essential. Essential is that it could not fall without a demolition and that it could fall with a demolition. The second thing what matters to me is that there are strong pointers (dancing Palestinians, insurance, art students, media cover-up) to who did it.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  433. @j2

    I don’t think the “air puffs” theory holds any water given the obvious velocity coming from within an unconfined space. I think you may have meant dancing Israelis not Palestinians, those were the ones who were apprehended and later released only to go on TV in Israel and reveal that they were there to document the event. There probably were Palestinians dancing in celebration in Palestine itself but I don’t think anyone has suggested their actual involvement in any way.

    • Replies: @j2
  434. j2 says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Yes, of course I mean Israelis by the dancing Palestinians. All of the facts I mentioned pointed strongly to the same people, which is not the Palestinians.

  435. Anonymous[222] • Disclaimer says:
    @j2

    I think one should drop the red chip claim and reduce the demolition theory to one that is very close to the official theory: one floor collapsed because steel weakened and it caused the rest of the floors to collapse.

    That’s literally not possible. Even if we go completely bonkers and assume that the “steel weakened”, evenly, at the same second, on one floor (or five), the structure above would start tilting to the side immediately (held by the un-weakened steel beams) and regardless of that wouldn’t have the force to pulverise the bottom part (which had its own un-weakened beams) into its own footprint.

    A number of floors near the impact would be crushed on both sides with some beams bending but after that the top would collapse to the side and the bottom would remain standing. There’s a small chance that the bottom of the building would collapse when the top hits the ground but even then it would collapse to the side, like a felled tree.

    The official theory only works if the supporting beams across the building were turned into gummy bears right before it collapsed. Wait, it doesn’t work because that only happens with controlled demolition.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke
    • Replies: @j2
  436. Wild Man says:

    Fred – in your “The Proximate Cause of All Our Woes” article (featured by Unz today), you mock commenters of this article (I guess because they are mocking you). But the facts are 9-11 was a conspiracy in the sense that we still have not been told the truth, by U.S. governmental officials. There has obviously been a conspiracy to obscure the truth. We know this, by way of fact, because Bush 2 knew Saddam Hussein didn’t do it, he knew the Saudis did it (with funding by way of officials associated with Saudi governmental regime), because that is what the 9-11 Commission Report (and more preliminary documents) said, yet Bush 2 decided to redact that part of the report for ‘national security reasons’, hide the truth from the American people, and invade Iraq and continue to play chummy with the Saudis, instead. And we didn’t know this information as fact until near the end of the Obama administration – when some of the redactions were released. At that time there was much controversy with regards to what would be allowed, by way of the victims of 9-11 using this new information to sue the Saudi government for damages.

    As such there IS a conspiratorial tone present in the official version of the events, …… as fact. And where there is smoke there is often fire. Also of import, is that building 7 collapse could not have occurred the way it did, by way of the official version of the narrative. Yet no other credible explanation for the collapse has been put forward by the officials in control of the official 9-11 narrative.

    The way it looks now, given these more recent facts with regards to Saudi governmental involvement, is that Bush 2 may have committed treason. Potentially, there may be others who aided and abetted said speculation about treason, – members of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence during that time (2002-2004).

    In order to dispel these well warranted speculations about potential Bush 2 treason, we need a credible explanation for Bush 2’s actual actions. None is forthcoming. I’m a Canadian, but to my mind, the American people should press on this issue much much harder. The future well-being of the entire world may depend upon it.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  437. j2 says:
    @Anonymous

    I looked at one calculation and it seemed rather OK. Basically 15 upper floors falling one floor could break a lower floor and as much of the mass will not disappear as a cloud but stays above even if it is powder, and has mass, the mass can be increasing when falling one floor. Then the building does continue collapsing to its footprint.

    Your other comment that the building would tilt is not relevant here. We assume it is an demolition and controlled, only that the steel pillars in one floor are weakened (or cut with thermite). It has to be done so that it is completely symmetric. It cannot be done with jet fuel, but we already know from higher temperatures in Ground Zero that there was something other than jet fuel.

    I do not claim this my proposed mechanism is exactly correct, but it is better than the nanothermite paint for arguing, because as it is very similar to the official explanation in most parts, these parts should be easily accepted. It is very possible that the mechanisms does not quite work, but I would leave it to some investigating committee.

    I think that for countering the official story it is enough to give a demolition theory example that works as well as the official explanation (because it is very similar) and additionally explains unexplained things, like a symmetric fall and temperatures in Ground Zero, which the official theory does not. The conclusion is then that the demolition theory is a better theory, not necessarily the final and correct one.

  438. @Wild Man

    C’mon now, if you really think that the Saudis did it then you might be drinking the same brand of Tequila that Fred is, and almost as much of it. FYI, the Saudis had little involvement. Perhaps there was some funding provided by them, enough to incriminate them should everything go wrong and a scapegoat needed. The Saudis should thank you for even suggesting that they have the capabilities to do anything this complex, they don’t.

    Read a few articles on September eleven, two thousand and one to be found on this very website before you comment on this subject again. Regards.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Fred Reed Comments via RSS
Personal Classics
Not What Tom Jefferson Had in Mind
Sounds Like A Low-Ranked American University To Me
Very Long, Will Bore Hell Out Of Most People, But I Felt Like Doing It
It's Not A Job. It's An Adventure.
Cloudy, With Possible Tidal Wave