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As the presidential debates approach, and our grotesque candidates prepare to compete for Best Actor, with their supporting casts of pollsters, advance men, media shills, gestures coaches, focus groups, and allied technicians of mendacity, Americans of broad historical illiteracy, which is most of them, hear endlessly of the evils of China. Whether the evils exist doesn’t matter. The electorate won’t know the difference. Still, it might be amusing to think about the matter. How bad (as Ivanka would put it) is the Middle Kingston?

Permit me a more sanguine view than those of our leftover Cold Warriors. Let us start with what Beijing has done for its people. We might also find enlightening a comparison of today’s China with today’s America.

I know what China was in 1978 when Deng took over: a literally starving behemoth, among the poorest countries on earth, with people eating grass. Forty-two years later it has lifted several hundreds of millions from poverty, and the remaining poverty would not be recognized as poverty by the slum dwellers of India. Perhaps I err, but this seems to me both astonishing and admirable. No other country, ever, has done such a thing.

Overage Cold War hawks and salesmen for the arms makers like to say that China is “totalitarian,” which sounds appropriately terrible without meaning anything specific. How many people have been in a genuinely totalitarian and Communist country? I was in the Soviet Union when it still was the Soviet Union, and it closely matched John Bolton’s onanistic fantasies: grim, poor, intimidated, no stores or consumer goods, empty streets with cars only for the government, people sullen and dispirited. As we flew out on Aeroflot, people spontaneously broke into applause as we passed the Russian frontier.

This is not China. Walk the streets in Chengdu or Chongqing. Traffic (unfortunately) reaches American levels. You will see stores selling anything you would find in, say, Washington, running from cheap to pricey, large grocery stores tastefully decorated (a Chinese touch) with everything from staples to gourmet food. It is First World. This is fact, boys and girls. It is documentable. Go look. I have. You will also see, at least in Chengdu, many blocks of stores selling Buddhist artefacts, functioning temples well maintained, and monks in the traditional robes. None of this is what we are told to expect. It is what is there.

Restaurants flourish, from soup stalls to elegant, and night life is varied and great fun. (Here a guide to said night life.) There is, for example, an Irish pub, the Shamrock, which we much liked. Large districts exist of what might be called wide car-less alleys with dozens of restaurants with outside tables and typically Chinese gaudy neon everywhere. This is not Steve Bannon’s China.

From Its website: “Shamrock has the best sports telecasts in Chengdu! With five different satellite feeds we have you covered for rugby, football (round ball) Aussie rules, cricket, NBA, golf, tennis, boxing, and UFC. Wondering how to find out more about what telecasts are on? We have our website listing, you can also ADD us on WeChat or alternatively just give us a call or email for more info on what and when telecasts are coming up.”

Conservatives of formidable economic illiteracy speak of China as a communist dictatorship. The government, perhaps not wanting to admit a mistake, calls itself communist. Geriatric hawks make themselves foolish by referring to “Chicoms,” but China is in fact a pragmatic authoritarian oligarchy, not a dictatorship, and communist countries do not have hundreds of thousands of private businesses. You cannot criticize the government and the Great Firewall of China blocks the international internet. Not good, but…totalitarian? Try North Korea.

US commentators speak of China’s intolerance of Christianity. The intolerance exists. But the Chinese have reasons. Remember that Christianity, however heretical, cost China fourteen years of godawful bloody warfare and perhaps millions of dead. It was probably enough Christianity for them. And of course, they can look at the US and see the havoc caused by diversity of religion, race, ethnicity, and so on. They probably figure they don’t need any.

Americans also grouse that fentanyl, which they usually pronounce “fentanol,” comes from China, just as Mexicans complain that the weaponry of the drug cartels comes from the US. True in both cases, but it is a bit of a leap to attribute either to governmental hostility rather than freelance criminality. Regarding drugs, we might remember that China has had bitter experience of Eurowhites. Americans have compelled the Chinese to buy opium by force of arms, though the government desperately opposed this. Maybe turnabout is fair play.

American troops have also occupied Chinese ports by force. American soldiers have rampaged through Beijing, raping, looting, and killing for sport. The Chinese are aware of this. Americans can usually find their way home at night.

People in the US speak of China’s brazen aggressiveness. Chinese aggressiveness? Did China invade Iraq, killing hundreds of thousands? Has China spent almost twenty years butchering Afghans, militarily seized Syria’s oil, supported Saudi Arabia in a murderous war against Yemen, supervised the destruction of Libya, bombed Somalia? Does China try to starve Iran and Venezuela into giving Washington control of their oil? Does China push its (nonexistent) NATO vassals ever closer to Russian border? Yes, China is an international menace. No one can doubt it.

Aggressiveness? True, America has only a piffling few military bases around the world, a mere scattering of about 800, while the aggressive China, always shameless, has one, at Djibouti. Today, the Horn of Africa. Tomorrow, San Francisco. My God, we must gird our loins, send more money to the Pentagon. Next thing we know, the squinty-eyed bastards will be dating our daughters at Harvard. (Though, come to think of it….)

China spends heavily on education and R-and-D. It has not caught up with America in everything, but advances rapidly. America buys intercontinental nuclear bombers of no apparent purpose. The above is a mag-lev train now in development, to run at 373 miles an hour.

Consider America as it must look to a citizen of, say Chongqing. It looks barbaric. The United States is neck deep in violent crime; China has almost none. This is not because of watchfulness by police, but because violent crime is not in the culture. You don’t need police to keep people from doing what they are not going to do anyway. In American cities, murder is so common as barely to be noticed by the newspapers: 700 a year in Chicago and several times as many shot, 300 in Baltimore, similar numbers in a couple of dozen other cities. America seethes in racial hatred; China, blessedly having only one race to amount to anything, does not. Many tens of thousands in America live in medieval squalor on the sidewalks or in the subways; not in China. China beat Covid and goes about its business (friends there tell me that things are back to normal). America…never mind.

Does China mistreat its Uighurs? Yes, and might even if America were not trying to stir up rebellion there, as it is in Hong Kong. Not good at all. Is it worse than the US? Maybe. Note, though, that America’s Africans have lived in wretched circumstances for four centuries, currently wallowing in semi-literacy, drugs, social collapse, and hopelessness. None of these is changing in the Exceptional Country.

Much can be, and is, said against China, and a lot of it is true. But Americans are in no position to do the saying.

Write Fred at [email protected] the letters “pdq” anywhere in the subject line to avoid autodeletion. All read, reply not guaranteed due to volume.

Buy Fred’s Splendid Books!

Lies. Sedition. Distortion. They may have dirty pictures. Remember, we know where your children go to school.

 
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  1. That was a hell of a good column, Fred Reed! I was waiting for your everything-China-great/everything-America-bad bit from your 2-week trip over there, but I gotta say that this column was very fair. Nice job. Regarding the following:

    I know what China was in 1978 when Deng took over: a literally starving behemoth, among the poorest countries on earth, with people eating grass. Forty-two years later it has lifted several hundreds of millions from poverty, and the remaining poverty would not be recognized as poverty by the slum dwellers of India. Perhaps I err, but this seems to me both astonishing and admirable. No other country, ever, has done such a thing.

    It is indeed amazing. I have been to the place 11 times, and know a number of Chinese people, some there, some here. I’m just here to warn other commenters that the Godfree Roberts Comm-ent-tards will be on here soon to praise Chairman Mao and deny all the evil that went on during the hard-core Communist years. (The fact that they think nobody knows enough history to understand how full of it they are is amazing!) Yes, the government is Communist in name only, as no one really wants that shit to happen again. However, this same government is still Totalitarian, though I would not say that Chinese society is.

    As I wrote, I’ve been to China 11 times – however, it’s been a couple of years. From what I’m hearing now from people there, and even some from observations my last time there, unfortunately, China is not becoming the free “wild, wild East” that I had thought of it as almost 15 years back. The electronic Orwellian stuff, especially the fast move toward cashless payments is very worrisome. See Peak Stupidity‘s “Dashed High Hopes from China”Part 1 and Part 2.

    I no longer think of China as any kind of bug-out location for someone wanting to abandon modern America in all its stupidity. We’re running out of decent places for freedom loving people on this planet!

  2. Great column Fred-really enjoyed this one. It’s good to hear about China from somebody who’s actually been there, and not just the spin on the news

    I’m not looking to debate the advantages of one system of government over another, but I fail to grasp the benefit of changing direction every four years…

    Once again, thank you for this column

    • Agree: Ace, Alternate History
    • Replies: @icedoc
  3. Agbars says:

    Fred, when you speak of the pillaging, raping and looting of China, you speak not of the Japanese. Why not, Fred? Like so much of what you write, you are so very selective.

    • Agree: 36 ulster
  4. I am so glad to read that Fred is such a great fan of fascism. Yes, Fred, everything is clean and new and the trains run on time.

    Calling China an authoritarian oligarchy is kind of code for fascism, but hey Fred, knock yourself right out.

    The only problem with China is that they are all so clean and organized that they never actually innovate. Sure they can compete—with the things that we innovate in the West. They can even do better than us in their copies of our innovations.

    But anything new? Eh. Not so much.

    It’s messy in the West, Fred. It’s messier in Mexico, take it from me.

    But perhaps China is your new destination, compa. Only thing is that China is for Chinamen. Not white people, and not their Mexican wives.

    Great travelogue though, Fred.

  5. Fred, whatever else, “ChiCom” is still funny. Makes me feel like I’m in a M*A*S*H episode every time I say it.

  6. Uncle Al says: • Website

    … 1) Chinese women are, well, rather doughy.
    … 2) The Chinese language lacks proper articles, plurals, a future tense…and has no way to “sound it out.” Get an alphabet, ChiComs.
    … 3) China is Democrat Socialism writ large: The One State is Mother. The One State is Father. The One State is God, Truth, Beauty, and Justice. The One State makes decisions, the people make mistakes.
    … 4) Wuhan lost 20 million cellphone accounts at a whack. One suspects their biological warfare center was selling test pigs to the local wet market for quiet cash.

    The Devil has a new rotating fountain in his front yard – RBG spouting boiling blood from every aperture, pivoting upon her nether orifice. The rest of civilization is queued. Thank you, China.

  7. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:

    Americans also grouse that fentanyl, which they usually pronounce “fentanol,” comes from China,

    Not any more..

    See the 2019 DEA Report

    https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-01/2019-NDTA-final-01-14-2020_Low_Web-DIR-007-20_2019.pdf


    In late 2018, India emerged as a source country for fentanyl and fentanyl precursors trafficked
    by Mexican TCOs.

    The primary sources of fentanyl production and supply will likely shift as drug traffickers in other countries, such as India and Mexico, respond to China’s new fentanyl legislation by expanding their own production and trafficking operations. Mexican TCOs will continue to serve as the suppliers of wholesale quantities of fentanyl to DTOs across the United States; ”

    China has never produced much of fentanyl; what it had was fentanyl precusors, the chemicals that make fentanyl. It is not surprising that Inida is replacing China as the main fentanyl source as India and China are two of the biggest pharma chemicals manufacturers in the world. By no means are they the only countries that supply the precursors. Where there is money , there is a way.

    See here

    Mexico seizes nearly 500 pounds of fentanyl from Spain
    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/mexico-seizes-500-pounds-fentanyl-spain-72337529

    Mexican customs authorities say they have seized almost 500 pounds (220 kilograms) of a chemical used to make the synthetic opioid fentanyl at a cargo terminal at the Mexico City airport

    The problem with banning fentanyl precusors is that drug cartels can change the formula faster than governments can ban them. Good luck with controlling it.

    Ironically, Sackler Family , who are sued by states and cities and are considered by many to be behind the opioid crisis in the U.S. , is doing the same in China.

    OxyContin maker thrives in China with abandoned U.S. tactics
    https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/20/oxycontin-maker-purdue-pharma-thrives-in-china/

  8. ruralguy says:

    Fred’s account agrees with what I saw, a year ago last Spring. The pace of change is hard to convey. Almost all high-rise buildings and even cities are less than 30 years old. Not everything has change, though. In China, the elderly are still revered. We traveled with my wife’s elderly parents. Everywhere we went, people’s focus was on them, to make sure they were comfortable. Strangers, would walk with them arm in arm.

    The best part of China is the country feels civilized without the degenerates, psychotics, homeless, and criminal types that makes America feel like insane asylum. In China, almost all conversations were respectable and civilized. It’s hard to convey how far America has declined, until you experience a civilized society like China.

  9. Freed Reed hit it out of the park with this one.

    I’m a free enterprise advocate, but I resent constant bellowing by republicans of the “China Threat”.

    I also resent constant shrieking by democrats of the “Russian Threat.”

    The wars and killing, maiming, bombing and massive destruction: it’s all thanks to the Exceptional Nation. Americans stupidly bleat about this aggression as fighting for “freedom” (which if pressed they could not define).

    Thank you Fred Reed.

    • Thanks: Ace
  10. @Achmed E. Newman

    The “Free, Wild East” was always Mongolia. You wanted the “Free, Wild East” with cities and tech, and you got the end result of the last two things: a cashless police state.

    Speaking for myself, I rather like it here. I know that in the future, I will not be persecuted for my whiteness, my hapa daughter will likely become a party apparatchik thanks to her grandfather, and I will be able to finish translating classical literature in peace while America burns.

    If you want some open land so you can masturbate on the mirage of Liberty, I’d suggest a Ger 50km due North of Ulaanbaatar.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  11. @Uncle Al

    the average height of an American woman is 5’4, and their average weight is 172lbs.

    the average height of a Chinese woman is 5’1, and their average weight is 125lbs.

    Now I would say that the “fittest” women in China are on average less cut than an American woman who keeps fit, because American fit women are encouraged to do a more rigorous core workout regimen through things like Zumba, crossfit, etc. My wife, who is on the “fit” scale of the conventional chinese woman only can be bothered to do light cardio and starve herself with typical Confucian discipline.

    But the cornfed foids in America are carrying around what amounts to half a chinese woman in 3 extra inches. Let’s be real here. If Chinese women are doughy, American women are a supermarket’s butter section.

    • Replies: @Michelle
    , @Anonymous
  12. @Supply and Demand

    It sounds like you’ve got it all worked out for yourself and your family. On this “I will not be persecuted for my whiteness…”, don’t be too sure of yourself on that. Chinese people can be just as racist as the best of ’em, and if things get worse between our countries (not your fault, of course) they may not treat you so well. That’s the way it always goes… Fred Reed, take heed.

    Thanks for the recommendation on that masturbation destination though … We’ll probably keep taking a stand here.

    • LOL: chris
    • Replies: @macilrae
    , @SBaker
  13. @Uncle Al

    The English language lacks a future tense. When you wake up you might realise that. Or should I say when you will wake up you might?

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  14. @restless94110

    Who are the oligarchs that control China? Comments like yours are pure racism.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  15. Conservatives of formidable economic illiteracy speak of China as a communist dictatorship. The government, perhaps not wanting to admit a mistake, calls itself communist. Geriatric hawks make themselves foolish by referring to “Chicoms,” but China is in fact a pragmatic authoritarian oligarchy, not a dictatorship, and communist countries do not have hundreds of thousands of private businesses.

    Did the Chinese out-jew the Jews?

    FYI, the “PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA” was, from its very inception, a Western banking intelligence operation and creation. 

    Today, after centuries of covert drug and overt military wars against it, the Middle Kingdom is, ironically, the last bastion of Capitalism, with a capital “C”– not to be confused with Dog Latin (Canis Latinicus) of “PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA” which is a legal fiction or “corporation” registered at the (((U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission))) in Washington, D.C.

    Cf.  EDGAR Search Results: PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA CIK#  0000909321 and PEOPLES BANK OF CHINA at the Bank for International Settlements (((BIS)))

  16. RVBlake says:

    “…Americans of broad historical illiteracy, which is most of them,…” Therein lies the point of the article, as usual.

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  17. Franz says:

    Forty-two years later it has lifted several hundreds of millions from poverty, and the remaining poverty would not be recognized as poverty by the slum dwellers of India. Perhaps I err, but this seems to me both astonishing and admirable. No other country, ever, has done such a thing.

    America did, Fred.

    In 1916 when a grandparent of mine died in an Appalachian mine shaft the family that survived him had no running water, electricity, exit to a better life, indoor plumbing. The food supply in that region was pretty rotten too. The youngest of them was born two months after the shaft swallowed his father up.

    Forty-two years later would have been 1958. By then the son born two months after his daddy’s death had a college degree courtesy GI Bill, a maintenance management job for a major US corporation, a paid-for house, interstate highways on the way in making commuting a dream, and air travel, still expensive but not for him (corporate expense account!)

    The USA traveled farther and faster because, keep in mind, the industries China is using now were developed here, by us, including the ones who died in the accidents and coal shafts that made it all possible.

    It took two generation of “free market” scum to let China have the benefit of our innovation and sacrifice. Praise China all you like. But curse the American traitors who gave away the store.

  18. @Suicidal_canadian

    Who are the oligarchs that control China? Comments like yours are pure racism.

    Suicidal, I have no idea. That’s because I was quoting that famous racist, Fred Reed, who said it in the article that apparently you didn’t even read.

    I don’t know what part of my comments were racist, Sui-baby. I also don’t know what part of my comments weren’t all true, and since everything I said was true, it wouldn’t matter if you think that means racism, an over-used, near-meaningless word.

  19. @Achmed E. Newman

    [I’m just here to warn other commenters that the Godfree Roberts Comm-ent-tards will be on here soon to praise Chairman Mao and deny all the evil that went on during the hard-core Communist years.]
    .
    There were 2 Mao’s. One was before the GLF and the other since then. The former deserved to have his portrait hung above Tiananmen and the other deserved to be pickled for eternity. It is appropriate that both have been done.
    .
    There were also 2 Washington’s. One built a white dominated America for the white occupiers. The other built a white household that owned Black slaves. The former deserved worshipping by white supremacists today. The other deserved to have his statue pulled down by the BLMers.

  20. @Franz

    [The USA traveled farther and faster because, keep in mind, the industries China is using now were developed here, by us, including the ones who died in the accidents and coal shafts that made it all possible.]
    .
    Without the Chinese invention of gun powder and the gun– among other things, you grandparents and your parents could not even have become “Americans”!!!
    .
    So, who have benefited from whose innovation and sacrifice???

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @VinnyVette
    , @Bookish1
  21. Gordo says:

    The PRC is an ethnostate.

    Which helps.

    Because the leaders feel a little in common with the people.

    Not like the West these days.

    • Agree: Thim, Mefobills
  22. Franz, White types like you couldn’t make it in Europe, and only got rich from the labors of Blacks and from killing Natives in their land.

    Your grandparent died in an Appalachian mine? Good for your grandparent. This ain’t your country nor your land. So fuck off so that you, too, won’t die in a mine.

    China “benefited” from White Americans? Want to come over and take it back from China? Before departure, don’t forget to pay royalty — China accepts only gold — for the the paper you practise writing your motherfucker’s name, and the gunpowder White fuckers like you use to murder everybody. Don’t forget the compass.

    Stupid imbecile Yank.

    • Agree: TimeTraveller
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Anonymous
    , @SBaker
  23. unit472 says:

    Now if China would adopt a political structure similar to Japan’s or Taiwan’s we could all relax but they haven’t and they won’t so the world has a problem.

    • Replies: @Mary Marianne
    , @Ray Caruso
  24. Yep, the trains run on time and all the riff-raff are swept up and pushed into the Soylent Green factory. The inconvenience of exercising religious freedom as a Christian or Falun Gong, or advocating democracy as in Hong Kong, are just minor details. Right, Fred?
    Never mind all of the industrial espionage, patent and copyright plunder, poisonous pet food, and other irritations with which China has plagued the nation you love to hate. I guess the continued meltdown of your current Narco-terrorist homeland has prompted you to look for another place to live. Bon voyage.

    • Agree: SBaker
    • Replies: @VinnyVette
  25. J says:

    China is well organized, well governed, hard working, clean, peaceful, a miracle. That is not what is bothering America. Imagine, Fred, that you are the only macho in the barrio with a gun. You get drunk in the bodega and sleep well. While you are sleeping, another hijo got a bigger gun. He is a very nice guy yet your tequila con gusano tastes less well and you sleep badly. America simply cannot co-exist with another great power. This barrio is too small for the both of them. Comprende?

  26. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    Without the White invention of Computers, you would not be writing this post and expressing your deep hatred for YT.

  27. Malla says:
    @Busting Erebus

    Franz, White types like you couldn’t make it in Europe, and only got rich from the labors of Blacks and from killing Natives in their land.

    Only a idiotic buffoon would write such drivel. Most Whites did not own black slaves. And a lot of native Americans were killed by diseases.

    This ain’t your country nor your land.

    Most of Africa is not black bantu land. Bantus conquered it in the greta Bantu expansion. Most of Caribbean is not black people’s land. Do not give me the stupid excuse “but dey b slaves so it b alrite.” Go and tell the Jamaicans to go back to Africa first.
    And what are the Han doing in Xinjiang. Xinjiang is not your land. Nor is Tibet.

    • Troll: d dan, Sya Beerens
  28. @restless94110

    The only problem with China is that they are all so clean and organized that they never actually innovate. Sure they can compete—with the things that we innovate in the West. They can even do better than us in their copies of our innovations.

    Noodles? Gunpowder? Silk? All Western innovations, right? That’s why Marco Polo was so anxious to take them to China. How about the “KL Zero” computer chip, where 4 of the 5 patent holders were Chinese killed on MH370? https://www.opednews.com/articles/MH370-Chinese-Cyberwar-Ge-by-Jeff-J-Brown-99-percent_Afghanistan_Anonymous_Bush-140611-536.html I know, just an improvement.

    What is a cruise missile other than an improvement on 1000 year old Chinese fireworks?

    All that aside, at least China is clean and organized, unlike sub-Saharan Africa.

    • Thanks: Maowasayali
    • Troll: VinnyVette
    • Replies: @restless94110
    , @Whitewolf
  29. @Franz

    Bad comparison. The population of the US wasn’t 200 million in your time frame. Yes, the US did a remarkable turn around, but that was never the goal, it was a by-product of people like Henry Ford who understood paying people enough to buy his product would be good for him and his employees. That mindset was killed off decades ago.
    I think you missed his point on the US being part of China’s destruction. It was already a well functioning country before the US and others forced them to be “open” for trade. Now that they have, with US and others’ help, of course, the chickens are coming home to roost.

    • Agree: Maowasayali
    • LOL: VinnyVette
    • Replies: @VinnyVette
  30. @Deep Thought

    “Without the Chinese invention of gun powder and the gun– among other things, you grandparents and your parents could not even have become “Americans”!!!
    .
    So, who have benefited from whose innovation and sacrifice???”

    Wow! You came up with a technological contribution to civilization by the Chinese!
    Amazing!

    However Gun powder or not, that doesn’t prove your claim that the Europeans wouldn’t have made it to and settled America swords in hand! So spare us the self rightious snark!
    And it would have little else to do with the inventions, innovations, and advancements to western culture and civilization such as archatecture, construction methods, agriculture, the internal combustion / engine, machinery, the airplane, education, the arts, sciences, virtually all modern technological advancements, I could go on add nauseum…

    What great inventions have the Chinese had on offer since fireworks?

  31. @Curmudgeon

    China was already a “well functioning country on its own?”
    Really? Pre Nixon, Kissenger it was the worlds biggest 3rd world shit hole!
    And if not for them opening up relations with China it still would be.
    American business would not be there for the cheap labor, and lax environmental standards, and China would still be nothing more than the worlds largest rice paddy!

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
    , @Curmudgeon
  32. Does China mistreat its Uighurs? Yes…. Is it worse than the US? Maybe. Note, though, that America’s Africans have lived in wretched circumstances for four centuries, currently wallowing in semi-literacy, drugs, social collapse, and hopelessness. None of these is changing in the Exceptional Country.

    This might be one of those “best practices” things where the US should consider taking a page from the proverbial Chinese Playbook.

  33. @Franz

    America doesn’t even have enough people to do what China did. Which is to lift 750 million (by conservative estimations) – 850 million (by progressive estimations) people out of abject poverty.

  34. @Malla

    In other words, people need to stop bxtching about China borrowing know-how from the west, because the west did the exact same thing with China. No country can progress and no innovation can be had without standing on the shoulders of giants. An isolated civilization is a civilization in decline. That’s why China lost the technological edge to the west in the 1800s. That’s why the Aboriginals lost all their knowledge of seafaring when they settled in Australia and why their isolated cousins in Tasmania were even more backwards.

    • Replies: @VinnyVette
  35. @ruralguy

    The Chinese have achieved the best of both worlds; the material wealth and opportunity that the west once had with the best parts of a traditional culture (respect for the elderly, intact families etc.) that we also once had.

    If you want to grab a beer and drink it on the bus on the way home, no problem. If you want to open up a business, no problem. As long as you don’t take it upon yourself to be a “human rights activist” you will have no problems with the police or government.

    It’s impossible to convey the personal freedom and economic opportunity that exists in China to most Americans.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @mocissepvis
  36. @Malla

    And what are the Han doing in Xinjiang. Xinjiang is not your land. Nor is Tibet.

    Han build railways to Tibet and Xinjiang to connect these regions to the rest of China’s economy from which the local minorities are now financially profiting.

    Have the native Amerindians been plugged into the USA economy yet? Oh, wait, they’re still wasting away in their “reserves” (AKA human zoos), getting drunk and high. And the whites didn’t even build America’s ancient railways, because that was done by Chinese coolies.

    • Replies: @Malla
  37. @Curmudgeon

    Dude. Marco Polo?

    Um so yeah. 8u0 years ago Chine invented some stuff.

    But what have you done for me lately?

    All that other stuff you mention? That is Western technology, copied and improved. They didn’t come up with that. They made it better.

    Finally who cares about sub-Saharan Africa? Even the Chinese think it’s a shithole.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  38. macilrae says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Chinese people can be just as racist as the best of ’em

    This is quite true – definitely it will take a while before wokeism catches on in China and most Han Chinese have racial views very similar to grandpa’s – or to Fred himself, come to that. In fact if you aren’t Han they will take one look and automatically attribute to you all kinds of discreditable behaviors which are only to be expected. And, sad to say, diverse visitors to China have obligingly reinforced all of those prejudices with interest, year in year out.

    Back in the 1980s I was so embarrassed by the loud, strutting behavior of my ethnic fellows that I avoided them like the plague whenever I was over there. They are noticeably more subdued now, however.

    But talking of repayment with interest, these days (at least before the epidemic), the behavior of groups of Chinese tourists (most usually petty bureaucrats and officials) is now almost as repulsive as ‘ours’ once was – loud, nasty personal habits, rude and arrogant.

    Yet everything Fred says still makes sense – they have come a long way while we were slipping ever behind.

  39. Michelle says:
    @Supply and Demand

    Ha, ha! Even “Doughy” Chinese women often have very muscular legs. They appear to have no muscles from the waist up, but, can squat for days! This is natural and has nothing to do with engaging in exercise.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  40. Al Lipton says:

    I take ‘evil, backward ‘ America over ‘good, progressive’ China any time. There is more to life than shiny ‘Made in China’ ipad, train to and from sweatshop, or other piece of plastic crap. There is Liberty, Religious Liberty, which China doesn’t have. Now, South Korea does. There is the right to bear arms, there is the freedom of speech, which Google and Yahoo hate.

    Fred, love you man, but can’t understand your obsessive love for totalitarian China and hatred for liberty loving Trump. Man like yourself should love Trump.

  41. @macilrae

    It’s funny you mention your run-ins with your fellow foreigners, Mr. Macilrae. Maybe the few English- speaking non-touristy white guys that I ran into were a little different, explaining their long-term presence there, but I just felt they were very unfriendly to me compared to how I was when seeing a cohort from my part of the world. I wasn’t rude, and I wasn’t acting like an arrogant foreigner either, but I do wear blue jeans and t-shirts, so I dunno…

    I am glad you mentioned the tourists from China who are all over the world now, driving retardedly, and mostly eating at Chinese restaurants, which are also all over the world and likely staffed with illegal Chinese people as they are in the US. I wrote a nice, mostly humorous post on this, “The Ugly Chinaman”, and before some idjit gets on my case here, it is not about looks but the traits that caused the expression “the ugly American” back in the past, when we had all the spending money.

    My take on the incessant picture taking, which is not just a Chinese thing, but they are the WORST!:

    [MORE]

    The latter was bad enough in the days of the Japanese and the 36 pics-per-roll Kodachrome era. Now, with the unlimited photo-shooting, the selfies and especially the Chinese girls posing with one leg forward to accentuate one side of the buttocks and the 50 year-old peace signs, it’s really out-of-hand. Peak Stupidity commented on this before, and we’ll just have to excerpt this one paragraph:

    It’s the continual selfies or posed photos everywhere in front of every damn thing that makes me think “do you not think people will believe you, if you said you’ve been here? Are you taking the pictures to prove it? If not, don’t you think you can download a better picture of this place without idiots posing in the way?

    Is it that you don’t think your friends will believe you if you just tell them you’ve been to the Roman Colosseum?

    Anyway, thanks for the nice, civil response, Mr. Macilrae. Sorry we don’t agree on the COVID thing.

    • Replies: @macilrae
  42. @Michelle

    They appear to have no muscles from the waist up, but, can squat for days! This is natural and has nothing to do with engaging in exercise.

    Could it have something to do with that the toilets are flush with the ground, Michelle? How much muscle can you build up in only, well, maybe 1/2 hour a day of isometric squats, what with all the rice and all… Yeah, hell, there’s probably an app for that now.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  43. unit472 says:

    The Chinese discovered an explosive not ‘gunpowder’. There is a difference. Guns were a much more recent development. I’m sure there are people here with much greater knowledge of firearms than I but they only became a reasonably reliable weapon ( outside fused cannons) with the development of the flintlock triggering mechanisms. Still their rate of fire was slow such that even primitive savages armed with nothing more than spears or the bow and arrow could assault and defeat a force armed with firearms.

    The firearm only became militarily decisive in the 19th century with the development of cartridges and multiple round firing systems and we went from revolvers to the machine gun in less than 50 years only because of a host of other technological developments ALL of which were invented in Europe and America.

    • Agree: Thim, Achmed E. Newman
    • Thanks: Mark G.
  44. Sensible says:
    @Uncle Al

    What nonsense! Wuhan had and still has 11 million people. How could they lose 20 million mobile phone accounts?

    Fred is talking about ignanrant people exactly like you.

  45. @VinnyVette

    Thank you, my friend. Take care of yourself and your tribe in these very troubled times.

    • Thanks: VinnyVette
  46. @J

    [America simply cannot co-exist with another great power.]
    .
    Of the “white nationalists”, who are in fact imperialists, you are at least honest.
    .
    A prick can’t stand a dick. The Doormat System (https://sputniknews.com/asia/201610081046141470-philippines-duterte-obama-washington-doormat/) simply cannot tolerate the Tributary System. What I can’t stand is the prick’s constant bitching about their Doormat System being fairer, more tolerant, freer…, which by your own admission is false:
    .

    [MORE]
    .
    17.21
    China has now just hit the tipping point in IP

    21.00
    Stapleton Roy: Meeting between Obama and Xi on SCS…
    .
    24.28
    Which country has killed more innocent Muslims…
    .
    25.00
    Every loophole America makes today, China will walk through tomorrow
    .
    34.00
    Getting its hand stuck in the Islamic world…
    .
    41.00
    China doesn’t want to take on these responsibilities..
    .
    .
    China’s REAL sin is that it steadfastly refuses to become Amelika’s vassal state:
    .
    “As a sister civilization, China knows that India can never be a vassal state. The heart of the matter is that China also does not want to export its model. It can live with a diverse multipolar world. ”
    .
    https://asiatimes.com/2020/09/modis-legacy-to-be-defined-by-virus-war-defeat/
    .
    .
    China has no intention of becoming just another “reservation”:
    .
    “Failure to recognize this reality by China, or to think that the desire to destabilize the country is limited only to President Donald Trump’s administration, may be the beginning of the end of the only superpower that can prevent the US from turning rest of the world into one big reservation for the indigenous nations around the globe.”
    .
    https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/china-needs-realism-not-wishful-thinking-on-us/
    .

  47. @Malla

    My discussion with some white folk on the Economist forum some years ago:

    [MORE]

    .
    {ý@ýýýýHin reply to JustBeGood
    [JustBeGoodin reply to YoungWeberMay 24th, 07:26
    .
    As for China, China is prospering on manufacturing that the West decided to transfer to China exactly so they will develop. This started out long ago, with secret transfers of technology to China, approved by the US government, at times when such technology transfers were strictly illegal.]
    .
    But what else could you do. If you did not do so, your competitors would. The low cost of manufacturing in China would eventually put you out of business!
    .
    By the way, without the Chinese transferring their inventions of gunpowder and the gun. The West could never have dominated the world the way they have done. Without the Chinese invention of paper-making and printing, the West could never have made the technological progress they have had– Just consider how important these 2 inventions have been for the spreading of knowledge– especially technical knowledge.
    .
    Without the realization by the Indians of the Zero as a natural number (and perhaps the most important one at that) and their notion of infinitesimal and their transmission of this knowledge to Europe, subsequent invention of the Calculus in Europe might not have been possible.
    .
    Without the invention of Algebra by the Arabs, there would be no higher mathematics. Also, try sticking to Roman numerals instead Arabic numerals and see how far you can go.
    .
    The contributions made by the West to the world is truly phenomenal. Perhaps even one-tenth of it can easily be more than all the non-Western contribution combined. Then here is my question: “Why is there the constant need by some Western elites for denying the contributions from non-Westerners, many of which were fundamental in propelling Western knowledge and power forward??? Some Western elites seem to be a bunch of highly insecure people!
    .
    Devil’s}
    .
    {ý@ýýýýHin reply to JustBeGood
    .
    [JustBeGoodin reply to ý@ýýýýHMay 25th, 07:12
    I agree with you that the contribution of non-Western cultures are grossly undervalued and unappreciated. Adding to your list, Indian sages in antiquity described the creation of the universe in the same terms as are now used by Hawking in his latest book. Their explanations are completely consistent with the Big Bang Theory and much more. However, their philosophical works are considered religious fables. And yet they knew without instruments, what our own instruments now confirm. And still we despise them, instead of asking ourselves how they achieved this. It is enough to take a stroll through the British Museum to see how Greek culture is venerated, while Indian or Chinese is neglected and left to rot.
    .
    If you look at my initial post, it is in the defence of the concept of the universality of human rights, with people from “other” cultures arguing against the idea, in support of autocracy, as a model of governance more suitable for non-Western cultures. The attainments of science, arts, philosophy belong to all of humankind, and they all influenced each other. Greek philosophy fed on Indian philosophy, today Indian technology feeds on Western technology.
    .
    I just do not believe in autocracy or persecution of women as a model of governance in today’s world, regardless of culture. So, I reject the idea that human rights are “Western liberal garbage”, I consider them an achievement of mankind as a whole.]
    .
    Generally agree with what you say.
    .
    I also agree that there are flaws in non-Western cultures and societies. Human rights is a great idea that is mostly promoted by the West. I think the conflict between the West and many non-Western societies on this matter is where individual rights should end. The West tends to believe that individual rights is absolute, while many non-Western societies believe that it should end when such rights collide with the interest of the society as a whole.
    .
    Another problem, I think, is that the West tends to be a little impatient. When societies become rich and developed, they tend to become more liberal. That occurs in non-Western societies too– E.g. China. Just a generation ago, promiscuity was frown upon in Chinese societies. Today, they are almost as promiscuous as Western societies. So, when some of these societies do not meet current Western standards, it might merely mean that they need a little more time. Demonizing these societies will only make them more defensive and slows down their liberalization processes.
    .
    Furthermore, what YOU think is a liberal Western notion (e.g. Freedom of expression) might not be so liberal when you take it to the absolute extreme.. Given below is one of my earlier posts:
    .
    Devils Advocate_1
    .
    “Freedom of expression” is “Prophet Muhammad” of the Christian West and “Prophet Muhammad” is “Freedom of expression” of Islam– Both are inviolable.
    .
    When you examine the two closely, you find how much Christianity and Islam are alike. Maybe, that is because both have the same monotheist origin? To each of them, there is only one “God” and one Truth– That of their own. Alternative gods or truths are not permitted!!!
    .
    Devil’s}

  48. @restless94110

    [All that other stuff you mention? That is Western technology, copied and improved. They didn’t come up with that. They made it better.]
    .
    The Chinese invented gun-powder and the gun– among other things. The West took these inventions, IMPROVED them, and then used them to beat the HELL out of the Chinese.
    .
    There is a MORAL LESSON to be learnt here!!!

    • Agree: Curmudgeon
    • Replies: @restless94110
    , @Malla
  49. @Mary Marianne

    China never had a “technological edge” to lose. What the hell are you talking about!

    • Replies: @Protagonist
    , @Vidi
  50. Malla says:
    @Mary Marianne

    Han build railways to Tibet and Xinjiang to connect these regions to the rest of China’s economy from which the local minorities are now financially profiting.

    Agreed. But so did the British in India, they built one of the largest railway network in the World. The Japanese did the same in Korea.

    If the Whites would not have gone to Australia, Australia would be a Papua new Guinea on the Outbacks. It is White people who built civilization there and many Han have benefited from it, studied in its universities (how many Han dream of graduating from University of Port Moresby?), bought real estate in Australia etc…

    As far as the Native Americans, some of them are rich owners of Casinos. And Native Americans of North America are actually far well off compared to Native Americans of Guyana and Trinidad & Tobago. There the blacks and Asian Indians totally ignore the natives and treat them like crap. Go and tell dose blacks to go back to Africa and the desis to go back to India and give back the land to the Native Americans. They would laugh on your face.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  51. @macilrae

    [Back in the 1980s I was so embarrassed by the loud, strutting behavior of my ethnic fellows that I avoided them like the plague whenever I was over there. They are noticeably more subdued now, however.
    .
    But talking of repayment with interest, these days (at least before the epidemic), the behavior of groups of Chinese tourists (most usually petty bureaucrats and officials) is now almost as repulsive as ‘ours’ once was – loud, nasty personal habits, rude and arrogant.]
    .
    You are merely identifying that it was backwardness and ignorance– not ethnicity– that breed these “repulsive, loud, rude and arrogant, nasty, personal habits”. The Chinese– especially the Chinese tourists– are the nouveau riche of today. Let us see what they will be like in another 20 years!
    .

    • Replies: @macilrae
  52. @VinnyVette

    [And if not for them opening up relations with China it still would be.
    American business would not be there for the cheap labor, and lax environmental standards, and China would still be nothing more than the worlds largest rice paddy!]
    .
    Post no. 48 above.

  53. Rahan says:

    US commentators speak of China’s intolerance of Christianity. The intolerance exists. But the Chinese have reasons.

    Even this is not quite what some make it out to be.
    China has the third-highest number of Protestants in the world today
    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-protestant-christians.html
    And is expected to have the biggest Christian population in the world by 2030
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10776023/China-on-course-to-become-worlds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html

    What oppression! It’s like another Holocaust!

    The deal is, that in China, like in Russia and Eastern Europe, there’s “official churches” and “illegal cults”. The former are fine, the latter are not fine and get the hose. When US cucks say “underground pastors” or “underground churches” in China, this word-choice conveys brave paleo-Christians hiding in the catacombs from Caligula, but in reality China is already a “Christianity superpower” number-wise, because it’s completely OK to be Christian there.

    It’s definitely more Christianity-friendly than various US allies in the Middle East, for example.

    It’s just not OK to belong to an illegal cult. The US has a tradition of astonishing tolerance for even the most weird cults and sects, and that is perhaps admirable, but expecting the rest of the world to be like that is unrealistic.

    You cannot criticize the government and the Great Firewall of China blocks the international internet.

    Research shows you CAN criticize the govt, but you CAN’T say then say “and therefore we should overthrow the commies”..
    https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-allows-government-criticism-silences-collective-expression
    Censorship yes, but not quite as comic-book villain rigid as some prefer to believe. After all, without feedback from the populace, the system can’t adapt and be efficient. Otherwise Soviet rigidity sets in.

    And the Great Firewall doesn’t really block the international internet as a segment, only specific websites and search engines,such as Youtube, Facebook, Google, Twitter, NYT, the Guardian, and porn. Everything else is available. CNN, Fox News, Daily Mirror, Yahoo–those are fine. It’s just that to the contemporary internet user, if there’s no Google and no Snapchat, this means “there’s no Internet”. Not quite the case.

    All that being said, America would still be “better” (to live in, not necessarily as a foreign policy influence) in its 1990s and even the high-crime 1980s/70s versions.

    But now that the heritage Euro-stock population has been replaced, and this is only hidden for a few more years by the high number of white seniors, and the traditional economy and political freedoms have been dismantled by an alliance of rogue institutions, feudalist corporations and useful idiot baidzuo, things are no longer so clear cut.

    Big thanks for another pleasant article.

    • Replies: @mocissepvis
  54. @Deep Thought

    The Chinese invented gun-powder and the gun– among other things. The West took these inventions, IMPROVED them, and then used them to beat the HELL out of the Chinese.

    And they did this 500 years ago. In 2020, who cares?

    Yes, the West did improve on them.

    But the fact that the West could so easily beat the HELL out of the Chinese (and this was what? 200 years ago?), makes it clear how weak and un-innovative the Chinese had become.

    Jared Diamond has a theory about what happened to the Chinese, (which he advances I believe in Guns, Germs & Steel, though it might be in Collapse instead) which has to do with the homogeneous top-down society that has been in place there for centuries. It didn’t change with the take over by Mao and the Communists.

    Diamond focuses on one key event in Chinese history: the edict by some Emperor or another again 100s of years ago to prevent shipping outside of the country (similarly, Japan was a closed country). Jared said the most astonishing thing about this event was how complete the Chinese fell in line and obeyed the edict, thus snuffing there innovation by strangling their outside commerce.

    This is the history of many Asian peoples. Their societies promote conformity and a lot of saving face crap that makes it difficult to innovate.

    Yes, Jared agrees with you: China was innovative centuries ago. What happened? Top down enforced conformity and the willingness of a very intelligent race of people to meekly obey like bovine livestock.

    It doesn’t matter at all what the West did to them a hundred or more years ago. The Chinese should never have let that happen. But they were vulnerable and easily conquered..

    This should serve as a lesson to America and Europe where we have a top-down politically correct straight-jacket being applied at jet speed. If this goes further, the West will become pushovers for other countries to surpass us in all ways.

    The rot is advanced. Don’t be like China was is the lesson. Fred reminds me of my mother years ago describing her visit to Singapore. She was so happy at how clean it was and disciplined. And it is.

    But the reason was you got a caning for spitting and you were put to death for many crimes. They were a straitjacketed society. I know it makes old people like Fred feel good.

    I do not agree. By the way, note to Fred: it’s not the Middle Kingston.

  55. @Agbars

    It was the British,using as agents a particular ethnic group,which shall remain nameless, who forced opium on the Chinese. Isnt that worth a mention? Oy!

  56. @VinnyVette

    [However Gun powder or not, that doesn’t prove your claim that the Europeans wouldn’t have made it to and settled America swords in hand! So spare us the self rightious snark!]
    .
    And if it is OK for the whites to steal entire continents with “swords in hand”, or “gun in hand”, what’s wrong with the Chinese “stealing” western technology with money, market access or hacking computers, in hand??? “So, spare us YOUR self-righteous snark!”
    .
    Now that BOTH have happened, you need to be careful not to lose what you have stolen. The non-whites are now proceeding to take those land BACK. Try take back the western technologies the Chinese have “stolen”. The Chinese, however, WON’T waste time and effort trying to take back gunpowder and the gun the west had stolen from them. It is far better to continue inventing more NEW WeChat and Tik Tok instead. ;-D, ;-D, ;-D

    • Replies: @VinnyVette
  57. Americans should accept that China is a great country and just mind their own business. Everytime America gets its snowflake panties in a twist and attacks China, it always gets it ass handed back royally to itself.

    Think Korean and Vietnam wars. China reamed America’s ass real good there, even though America had all the advantages.

    America tried to starve China to death by food, grain and medicine embargoes in the early 50s, then talked openly in Congress about nuking China and exterminating the yellow menace afterwards. So the Chinese put a live nuke on a missile and shot it 1000km across china and exploded it to show how foolish such talk was.

    From the 80s to 2020, China lifted 800million people out of poverty by tirelessly increasing agricultural production in every region of china, building roads and trains and internet to connect all China together to enable every sort of trade, every sort of buying and selling all over China and also to the outside. Even the poorest villager can go on the net to sell his produce and learn new skills, or migrate to anywhere else and find different work. China made itself into the factory of the world, making good cheaply for american, european and japanese companies, so these companies could make huge profits selling those goods in their home markets.

    China made America, Europe and Japan rich, not the other way around. America’s material prosperity is all due to China. China made America rich.

    Now when China is becoming richer and more powerful than America, America gets its dopey snowflake panties in a twist and bitterly tries to attack China with every possible false accusation and lies, just like a hysterical, crazy-jealous girlfriend who has been dumped by her long-suffering boyfriend who just cannot endure her nonsense anymore.

    No wonder the whole world has lost any little respect they used to have for America. To see America, and especially the corrupt and delusional Trump regime behaving like a playground bully who just had his ass handed to him, is almost so tragic it is funny.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Troll: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @Rogue
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  58. US commentators speak of China’s intolerance of Christianity.

    Christianity is dead in the US. Jews took over and, with the help of worthless cuckristians, turned it into worship of sodomy and tranny nuttery. Many churches in the US will now purge and reject you IF you dare speak out against homosexuality & tranny nuttery and point to the TRUTH that Jewish Power is behind globo-homo-mania.

    If this is the sorry ass fate of Christianity, who needs it?

    And what is US democracy but rule by the super rich? The elites love to warn us of the dangers of demagoguery(usually associated with populism), but far more dangerous is donor-goguery or ‘donoroguery’ that really rules the West. Politicians don’t so much appeal to mob passions as to snob obsessions for power, wealth, and vanity.

    Mob rule can be dangerous but snob rule is what really stinks up most societies. Even Trump the so-called ‘demogogue’ has been sucking up to donors like Sheldon Adelson and other globalist oligarchs. So, he’s more ‘donorogue’ than demagogue.

    Does China mistreat its Uighurs?

    Given that US was built on ‘genocide’ of Indians and given that US turned the native population of Hawaii into minorities under the domination of immigrant-invaders, I find the charge downright hilarious. And US supports Zionists who took over Palestine. US can invade and kill millions, and Jews can annex W. Bank and steal Golan Heights, but these neo-imperialists sure love to beat on their chest.

    • Agree: Ghan-buri-Ghan
  59. Miro23 says:
    @ruralguy

    The best part of China is the country feels civilized without the degenerates, psychotics, homeless, and criminal types that makes America feel like insane asylum. In China, almost all conversations were respectable and civilized. It’s hard to convey how far America has declined, until you experience a civilized society like China.

    It’s interesting that the US public still don’t realize how far they’ve declined (same with the UK). They feel that things are not going well, but it’s not a realistic view of themselves vs. China or much of the rest of the world. I suppose that they’ll eventually see it – same as the public did in the Soviet Union.

    It also shows how effective PISA test scores are at predicting future economic success. Asian countries have been taking top positions for years.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  60. An excellent, balanced piece.

    a literally starving behemoth, among the poorest countries on earth, with people eating grass.

    When China was as accurately described above, Washington was happy to let them be, because they were in their rightful place where most non-White nations were supposed to be. For these yellow mongrels to summon the gall and grow the testicles to not only raise the standard of living of their citizens in such unprecedented fashion – and to do so independent of the West, but to actually dare compete with the supremacist tribe will simply not be tolerated. It is the blatant racist element in our dealings with China that would explain this latter day totally irrational paranoia, saber rattling and venom. And it is one that goes sorely missing from analyses by our fake journalists and “experts”.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  61. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    Thank you for this great exchange.

    By the way, without the Chinese transferring their inventions of gunpowder and the gun. ……The contributions made by the West to the world is truly phenomenal.

    Yes I agree with you, but even then the Han did not always give their technology to the West/Middle East voluntarily . Most of that technological transfers took place during the Yuan Mongol Dynasty which it self was part of a huge Mongol Empire (Second Largest in history after the British Empire). And I do not blame the Han for this, it was simple self preservation. China had always had a huge population thanks to its great rivers and productive lands and had these technologies gone out, they would have affected valuable exports which benefit many Han Chinese in livelihood. China during the Song or maybe even the Tang dynasties had a higher standard of living compared to most of the world (but in those days before the Industrial revolution such differences in per capita income in between populations was much smaller than today). So what if some Persians or Indians would take Chinese silk technology and using comparatively cheap labour would try to import them into China, that would harm Chinese farmers and artisans.

    “Why is there the constant need by some Western elites for denying the contributions from non-Westerners, many of which were fundamental in propelling Western knowledge and power forward???

    Here I disagree, even tho there might have been some instances that Westerners might have ignored, non White contributions, Westerners in general have always praised non White civilizations and their contributions. it were British officers of the East India Company who rediscovered Indian Vendanta which was forgotten by our Brahmens. Had people like Jones not rediscovered Vedanta, Swami Vivekananda would not have been able to go to America to lecture Westerners on Indian philosophy. It were British officers of the Est India Company who rediscovered India’s pre Islamic golden past. We never knew about Ashoka the Great, all there was about him was just a paragraph in our Purans. We could not even read our ancient Brahmi and Kharosthi script, our learned Brahmins fartards did not know how to. Who deciphered this ancient script and thus opened Indian history to Indians? Why, British scholars like James Prinsep and George Turnour (Turnour was an Englishman who was born and died in Ceylon-Sri Lanka). I will post a separate post on Princep.

    [MORE]

    Who started Classical Music Schools to preserve Indian Classical Music? Why British and French colonial officers, they themselves frequented the houses of great South Indian Carnatic Classical Masters to listen to their music. I will hava separate post on this.
    Who started colleges to preserve Indian traditional knowledge? Why the Honourable East India Company. Who started the Imperial Museum to preserve Indian Cultural artifacts?
    Indian Museum, Kolkata
    The Indian Museum in Kolkata, West Bengal, India, earlier known as the Imperial Museum at Calcutta is the ninth oldest museum of the world, oldest museum in India and the largest museum in India. It has rare collections of antiques, armour and ornaments, fossils, skeletons, mummies and Mughal paintings. It was founded by the Asiatic Society of Bengal in Kolkata (Calcutta), India, in 1814. The founder curator was Nathaniel Wallich, a Danish botanist.
    The Imperial Museum at Calcutta originated from the Asiatic Society of Bengal which was created by Sir William Jones in 1784. The concept of having a museum arose in 1796 from members of the Asiatic Society as a place where man-made and natural objects collected could be kept, cared for and displayed.

    Who started colleges in India to preserve ancient Indians documents and parchments which were all rotting away? Why, the Honourable East India Company. The Sanskrit college in Calcutta, the capital of the Indian East India Company.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sanskrit_College_and_University
    Sanskrit College and University (erstwhile Sanskrit College) is a specialized state-government administered Liberal Arts University offering an undergraduate degree in Sanskrit language, Pali language, Linguistics and ancient Indian and world history.[1][2] It is one of the affiliated colleges of the University of Calcutta. Founded on 1 January 1824, Sanskrit College, is one of the oldest educational institutions in the subcontinent.[3] It is a traditional college that specializes in the scholarship of Indian tradition, philosophy and religion. It is located on College Street in central Kolkata. Its centrality is heightened by its proximity to Hindu School, Presidency College, Kolkata, the University of Calcutta, and the Indian Coffee House. It was established during the Governor-Generalship of Lord Amherst, based on a recommendation by HT James Prinsep and Thomas Babington Macaulay among others. The great Indian Hindu thinker from Bengal Iswarchandra Vidyasagar came from this college.

    I have read the works of many European travelers in India and Persia etc… Nothing like you say is true. They had no inferiority complex feelings and were quite accepting of other cultures and their achievements. It were actually us who do not accept other cultural achievements, but that is for a different post. For example, this travelogue I was reading of an Englishmen who said that even though Indian and Persian carpenters used more primitive tools than those in Britain & Europe, and what took in Britain 3 days to make, took a month here, he was still amazed at the quality of their works and their talents. He said that the smaller more delicate hands of Indians as compared to the more beefy English hands could have helped in this. He also writes that if European methods of Carpentry were to destroy the Indian and Persian methods, it would be a great loss and the British Raj Govt of India must do something to preserve Indian carpentry methods.

    One more British Captain, though finding some of the stones worshiped by us Hindus grotesque, declared later in his book that when it comes to the art of dance (nautch), Indians are the most developed. British Officers of the Honourable East India Compnay sat with Brahman scholars and discussed Hindu Puranas. the Brahmins slyly tried to show Indian history as only hindu vedic. but when British scholars and officers dug deep into the soil in their excavations, they found more Buddhist stupas and statues, it was a rain of Buddhist Indian golden age, which the Brahmens had themselves destroyed and tried to hide. Without the evul White English, we may have never known about the Indian Buddhist Golden Age. India was a Buddhist country once, not Hindu.

    Also one British scholar, had made significant study of the Jain traditions and did a great service to the Jain community.
    http://www.jainpedia.org/themes/people/studying-jainism/henry-thomas-colebrooke-and-the-jain-tradition.html

    Henry Thomas Colebrooke and the Jain tradition

    • Thanks: Miro23
    • Replies: @martin_2
    , @gavishti
  62. Anonymous[938] • Disclaimer says:

    This business of eating grass is quite simply a lie. I’ve seen it applied to N. Korea, but this is my first time seeing it applied to China.

    Humans simply lack the chemicals in their bellies to digest grass like cows and horses.

    • Replies: @Astaroth
  63. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    There is a MORAL LESSON to be learnt here!!!

    And then the West gave those weapons to non Whites who later used it on Whites. Were the Iraqi army fighting the Americans on camels and swords? Nein. Did the Vietnamese use swords and spears to fight the French and Americans? Nein.
    Had the Whites been very careful not to give their modern technology to non Whites, many White lives would have been saved.

    This Italian history war buff sez at 20:50 to 23:30 minutes that the Mongols would have completely failed in Western Europe because of Castles (had they not gone back after the death of the Great Khan) and that that by the late 15th century, Europe had gone way ahead of the rest of the world in warfare technology. Anybody who would have observed European Warfare techniques and technology at that time with respect to the rest of the World would not be surprised that Europe would have finally conquered the world. And gun powder was not the only factor.

    That is why in India European Armies were defeating native Muslim and Hindu Armies 10 times their size. The first ones to do that were the French not the British.

    • Thanks: Curmudgeon
    • Replies: @yakushimaru
  64. Anonymous[345] • Disclaimer says:
    @Busting Erebus

    >”White types like you…only got rich from the labors of Blacks”

    Mbutus from Shitholica picked cotton…COTTON!… something 4-year-olds can do. They were inefficient, archaic farm equipment from the git-go.

    >”and from killing Natives in their land.”

    The “natives”…actually Mongolians migrated from Siberia…killed each other long before Honkies arrived. Plus some “south of the border” butchered 10,000 Injuns over long weekends to please Mr. Sun.

    Injuns were also 7-10,000 years behind technologically, never inventing the wheel. Compare a seafaring Spanish ship to an Injun canoe of the same era.

    >”Your grandparent died in an Appalachian mine? Good for your grandparent.”

    Injuns who fought the US Army also formed heap-big mounds of redskinnery. Good for them, too.

    >”This ain’t your country nor your land.”

    Visit Earth some time, Busting Anus. You might like it.

    >”China ‘benefited’ from White Americans?”

    Yes. Electricity, TV, iPhones, telegraph, steam engines, etc.

    >”don’t forget to pay royalty”

    Them first, Chumley.

    Also, compare paper and fireworks to iphones-emails-texts and moon-rockets.

    >”practise writing your motherfucker’s name”

    Stop boinking your momster, mein dude.

    >”White fuckers like you use to murder everybody”

    Tamerlane butchered 17,000,000 humans when the planet was far less populace. Capisce?

    Why not rent your brain since you’re not using it?

    >”Don’t forget the compass.”

    You mean the magnetic rock on a piece of wood floating in a tea cup? Was that as complex as a longitudinal clock?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlQcCenLchU&ab_channel=moonwatcher1976

    >”Stupid imbecile Yank.”

    Brilliant canine-peen wanker!

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  65. Ber says:
    @VinnyVette

    “What great inventions have the Chinese had on offer since fireworks? ”

    Perhaps you should check out Joseph Needham who had documented fairly exhaustively the great inventions of China.

  66. @Achmed E. Newman

    Maybe, seated toilets produce too much pressure on the top? Was that how the white West produced the 2 Dollies of Parton?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  67. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    As promised in my other post, I shall write about James Princep.

    In the 18th and early 19th century, very little was known of India’s past before Islamic rule. Noted author and historian John Keay in his book India Discovered (1981) quotes 18th century English scholar Thomas Twining, who while studying Indian history wrote in 1790:

    [MORE]

    As the British empire began expanding across India following the Battle of Plassey in 1757, a number of British writers, travellers, scholars, merchants and officials attempted to cross this ‘line of shade’ to rediscover India’s ancient past. They were traversing newly conquered British territories to marvel at and study the ruins at Khajuraho, Ellora and Madurai.

    Among these was a young Englishman who started life in India as a junior employee at the Calcutta Mint and went on to leave an indelible mark on Indian history. His name was James Prinsep.

    This remarkable man was born on 20th August 1799 CE into a wealthy English family. After completing his studies in England, Prinsep arrived in India in 1819 at the age of 20, to work as an ‘Assay Master’ at the Calcutta Mint. His job was to ensure quality control at the mint but his life was to take another direction.

    Prinsep’s superior at the Calcutta mint was Horace Hayman Wilson (1786-1860), the most eminent Orientalist of his time. Wilson was a Sanskrit scholar, who had an interest in Ayurveda and was the first person to translate the Rigveda, the Vishnu Purana and Kalidasa’s Meghaduta in English.

    James Prinsep was responsible for many firsts in India: identifying bad health with mosquitos and still water, building first detailed city map (comparable to Google Earth imagery), the first powered ceiling fan, first human flight on Indian skies, high precision weighing machine, archeological restoration, introducing the West to a romantic relationship with India’s river ghats and more. His achievements and his dedication to India and its people is something that we would be compelled to remember for times to come. This is a story of extraordinary efforts and achievements, coming from a seemingly ordinary person, who lived in difficulty himself. This is a story that inspires.

    He would spend hours in the cool breeze of the Ghats. He grew increasingly passionate about the Ghats of Benaras, built little over a century earlier by the Marathas. During his 7-9 years of stay in Benaras, he made numerous sketches of the Ghats, including some paintings with his artist & businessman brother William Prinsep who visited him in 1830. The masterpieces traveled outside and across the world and introduced the Western world to the enchantment of Benaras over the next few decades.

    Prinsep was endowed with two great qualities. He had a mind of enquiry and had a knack for applying his knowledge. These would ensure that he did not limit his stay to merely enjoying India. He found scope for doing a lot of things in Benaras. He began waking up early and would finish off his office work by breakfast time. Then devote his time and energies to his passions. And his passion was to apply the knowledge of science. He built, what was then the world’s most sensitive weighing balance, capable of weighing a spec of dust. He was pained to see the high rate of mortality in the local population. He inferred that the cause was mosquitoes and germs, promoted by the marshy land pockets of Benaras. At his own cost and efforts, he undertook an engineering project to drain the waters. This gave a huge fillip to his already growing popularity among the people of Benras. People gifted him a ground. This time, he used his engineering skills to level the ground to a flat non-flooding landmass, and returned it as a gift to the people for making of a bazaar! Charles Allen (author) notes that this generosity was extended at a time when Prinsep was literally poor himself, with a job that could go anytime because his boss in the East India Company wanted someone else . Then Prinsep takes up two important assignments. One was to restore the crumbling mosque built by Aurangzeb (popularly known as the mosque of Aurangazeb) near the Ghats. The mosque had tilted towards the river and was destined to fall eventually. Prinsep observed the complex structure of building and its towers, taking note of the composition brick-by-brick. The building was dismantled in a brick by brick fashion and then reassembled into an enforced building! The next was a stone bridge over the river Karamnasa. Nobody had succeeded in making a river on this in a century long efforts before him. But my understanding is that this was more a social challenge than an architectural one. The river’s waters were supposed to be cursed and were believed to be a killer for the mere mortals. Only Brahmins could touch the waters and emerge unharmed. Aparently there was a flourishing business wherein some such ‘empowered’ people made a living by transporting people on their backs, for the touch of the river was corroding. Looks like that Mr. Prinsep’s real success was being able to carry out the work with popular support of people, overcoming the resistance of a small section that had frustrated every previous effort. A stone bridge was made over the river and exists today

    Prinsep started taking keen interest in the Asiatic Society. In those times, survey and civil engineering work put together were throwing up fresh archeological sites at a great pace. Most importantly, coins were coming up from across India. All of these were being sent to the capital of British India. After the death of Sir William Jones, there had been a sort of vacuum in this field. To be fair, the French and Germans were doing equally good work, if not better, in studying India in the 18th century. But in the 19th century, they did not have access to archeological evidences from India, as whole of India, Ceylon and Burma passed into British control. The coins had a lot to tell about our heritage. But there wasn’t anyone to listen to what these coins had to say. James began to apply his scientific abilities to understand what the coins said. I had a look at some of these coins recently at the Indian Museum. Each coin had a few strokes of lines besides a picture. If this was text, there was too little of it to allow anyone to understand the patterns in it.

    To allow him to work (study) longer and more efficiently in Calcutta’s hot and humid weather, James produced what was probably the very first mechanized ceiling fan in India. He employed steam to power the punkhas, that produced better results than the human powered ceiling fans. With these fans, now he could work better and longer. During these fruitful years, James Prinsep established himself as the “code breaker”. He began to understand the patterns in the coins and inscriptions and deciphered the ancient languages. He began to connect what was said in the Sanskrit script with current places and relics. All these put together, he was able to draw up an invaluable pile of information — the genealogical charts of ancient Indian dynasties. This information confirmed many of Sir Jones’ works, and also corrected some of Sir Jones’ work. Now what was available was a history of India. Answers began to flow; such as which dynasty ruled which geographical part of the country and at what time, details of particular administrations etc.

    Then Prinsep moved to the next level. Problem: a large amount of inscriptions and coins related to an entirely unknown script. The letters of this script were strange and bore no resemblance to other found in coins and inscriptions, in either the pattern or specifics. Nor was this similar to any living language. In 1838, after nearly 10 long years of arduous efforts, Prinsep unfolded this as the Bramhi script. This single discovery opened a window to the lost world – a vista to Ancient India.

    Prinsep was a serious man with serious devotion to work. But it seems to me that he was even more a family man, a fun loving man. His younger brother Thomas died after falling from a horse, while working on Calcutta’s salt water lakes. James Prinsep wanted to complete his late brother’s work and restore honour. He set about draining the salt water bodies by building canals and reclaimed lands. Another first shows the scientific, yet fun-loving part of this man. A Frenchman appeared in Calcutta around then with a giant balloon, with the dream of flying over the magnificent city and its famed river. But there was no possibility of achieving this, for no-one in India had the faintest idea of how to make this work. Prinsep took the challenge and risked creating the gas mixture that would fly a giant gas balloon. This translated into the first ever human flight on Indian soil.

    More about him here
    https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/as-the-script-spreads-across-the-spectrum/297397
    The British Engineer who unlocked the ancient history of India for us Indians

  68. @unit472

    Why would China want to adopt a political structure that will inevitably turn it into an American poodle like Taiwan and Japan? Is that in China’s interest? Will it help dismantle any of America’s 800 military basis (of which the majority are surrounding China)? Will it stop the USA from trying to regime change China any time it elects a president that the USA is not in favor of the same way the USA is doing to democratically elected Latin American leaders that don’t toe the American party line? 🤔

    • Replies: @Anon99
  69. GMC says:
    @Franz

    I will surely agree to some of your good factual points on the US progress. It sure seems to have been on a role once the government began to work with all the people, and America is a great place , but today it is so mismanaged and corrupt, it is taking away the greatness – fast. But, why wouldn’t the rest of the world want to copy our open progress and industry? Other countries probably didn’t have the innovative craftsmen , money or time, in order to create – what we already did. So, they copied us and of course you will always have some greedy group that will want to make money off – what we produced. We all know who has held back countries from uniting as a unique World – the same ones that are trying to destroy the US – after they have looted, stolen our most secret industrial research, and pushed us into these world wars. Europeans and their sovereign countries had its great places and many of their folks found a great spirit and brought their crafts to the US. This too has been destroyed.

  70. idealogus says:

    Let’s simplify things.
    In essence, an enlightened monarchy is much more efficient than a democracy. Democracy is the most inefficient system of government invented by the people. However in general democracies starting with Athens and Rome and continuing with England and America tend to go much better than “totalitarian” systems.
    Because there is an extremely big asymmetry between doing evil and doing good things.

    Monarchy / Communism / Plutocracy etc. they are much more efficient than democracy in doing anything. But because doing evil is much easier and more tempting, all undemocratic regimes end by destroying themselves because it is very difficult to find people who are not corrupted by power. A monarch / party president with absolute power can destroy in 2 years what the enlightened monarchs / capable presidents of communist parties have built 100 years ago before.
    In a democracy it is difficult to do anything. Many laws, many committees, many signatures and approvals, auctions, etc. and when everything is ready the elections come and the opposition wins and everything is started from the beginning. But that means it’s very hard to destroy something. Because building is infinitely harder than destroying democracy in the long run is better.
    What do you think China will look like if, in 10 years, an incompetent and power-obsessed pervert maniac comes to power instead of Xi Jinping. History teaches us that this happens frequently.
    10 Trump or Obama will not destroy America, but a crazy dictator will quickly plunge China into civil war and turn it back for 100 years.
    China has now a competent, meritocratic and relatively normal leadership. In 20 years there are great chances to be the oposit. I can tell you some delicious episodes in the history of China with crazy emperors.
    I am from Romania. 80 years ago in democracy the Prime Minister of Romania fell ill with syphilis and went mad. He remained prime minister for a long time, although during the meetings with the ministers he jump on the table and sang like a bird flapping its wings. The ambassadors of foreign countries were shocked. But everything was ok. He was ignored by the rest of the bureaucratic / party apparatus. What will hapened when a mad man will run China?

    On the other hand, in America at the moment there is no true democracy. For last 50 years the choices were limited between only 2 options, both controlled by Jews. Basically, elections in America are a façade because whoever is elected in America will follow the path dictated by people who are unelected by anyone but who truly lead America.
    So this comparison between China and America is not correct.
    At the moment, America is hardly a democracy and is in one of the hardest moments of the last 300 years and China is a dictatorship that is at its most favorable moment.
    However, China’s future is brighter because the quality of most people in China is far above the average American citizen.

    • Agree: Rev. Spooner
    • Replies: @yakushimaru
  71. anonymous[145] • Disclaimer says:

    In American cities, murder is so common as barely to be noticed by the newspapers: 700 a year in Chicago and several times as many shot, 300 in Baltimore, similar numbers in a couple of dozen other cities.

    Basically, China doesn’t have black people. And that explains that.

    • Agree: jim jones, SteveK9
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  72. @VinnyVette

    China leads ALL innovation indicators by huge, growing margins. China filed almost half the global patent applications in 2018 for instance (64.4%, compared to 18% originating from the US).

    Where have you been the last 20 years?

    https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_941_2019.pdf

    • Replies: @SteveK9
    , @anon
  73. Sorry, typo earlier (46,6%, not 64,6%)

  74. Americans never asked for a multicultural nation, it was (((foisted))) upon us.

    The Dragon has an auspicious lack of (((helpers))) infiltrating their monocultural society, few minorities and no pathological pursuit of affirmative suicide.

    The absence of these elements is something to envy, the Yeast’s other great advantage is the treason or ignorance of our “elites,” staying asleep while the red-yellows stole (or were given) our tech.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  75. Jake says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    China continues to have many faults, but the fact is that while the Elites of the Anglo-Zionist Empire despise non-Elite whites and act to make them serfs, the Elites of today’s Red China act to do well for the Chinese people, because that is good for China.

  76. Not serious writing. This is patronizing bullshit.

  77. @Jake

    I’ve made this very point myself, Jake. I would qualify it by saying that the Chinese elites and the people in Chinese governments of various levels don’t actively HATE the Chinese people. Yes, they are one with them and will act to do well for them, but not if doing something else results in financial gain. They are still more corrupt at all levels, IMO.

    The question is, which is worse, lots of corruption in a unified population, or (what we have now) active hatred and destruction wrought by the evil and stupid – often both.

    Now, as far as the latter part of my comment that you responded to, I sure don’t like the way things are going there. I don’t mean for OUR sake, but for the everyday Chinaman’s sake and the world’s sake. There is really Orwellian shit going on there now, Jake and Fred.

  78. Rogue says:
    @GreatSocialist

    China made America, Europe and Japan rich, not the other way around. America’s material prosperity is all due to China. China made America rich

    Laughable. Relocating loads of manufacturing to China from the USA, Europe and possibly Japan made fatcat capitalists rich, not ordinary people. The average American was certainly better off when all these industries were still in their own country.

    Great socialist delusions.

    • Replies: @Malla
  79. @restless94110

    That was the 2nd best comment on the thread, Restless-in-San Francisco. I met a girl from Singapore and we hung out for a few days. This was something like 15 years ago, and she was just fine with their government tracking all the citizens in every way. Somehow the topic came up, and, yeah, she brought up the “If you’ve got nothing to hide …” crap.

    The thing is governments all over the world always LUV LUV LUV to have more and more control of their subjects. In China, because the people are mostly hard-working and smart, this Orwellian stuff will be even that much more efficient. Great!

    • Thanks: restless94110
  80. Thim says:

    This Amigo Fred no like Gringos, and that is his right as a Mexicano, but assessing the current China is complex and beyond his abilities.

    Appearances are deceiving. It is all leveraged. Building quality is poor. The factories churn out junk. The military is a joke.

    Much more could be said in that vein, but the issue of Chinese pride and arrogance is central. Most recently, they are treating the Russians badly, and they don’t seem to realize that without the Russians they have zero chance of winning the next war.

    In their pride and stupidity (same thing) they have begun claiming parts of Russia as their own. This ritual in China always begins with an Academic. Now they are claiming Vladivostok as their own.

    Like an ignorant child, who sees all open avenues to success, but sees none of the obstacles hidden along the road, the Chinese stumble on, now alienating their one, yes their only, ally.

    Only years later will the world see that America laid a trap for China in the Spratleys. They decided to occupy and militarize these rocks in the sea, and America just sat and watched, while China turned the entire region into enemies.

    It may have not occured to the geniuses who decided to do this that they were making enemies, because pride blinds people, even whole nations. That America can turn all of those bases to dust in 20 minutes also seems to have eluded them.

    So they fell into the trap, and America is waiting there, for the move on Taiwan. It will not go well for Bejing. Perhaps even at that time it may occur to one or two of these Dragons that they made a mistake antagonizing Russia, especially by opposing the reclamation of the Crimea.

    A certain book the Chinese do not like says this: Pride goes before a fall.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @GammaRay
  81. alfred says:
    @Agbars

    you speak not of the Japanese.

    And the British, French, Germans, Australians, Mongols, Russians, Italians, Austria-Hungarians … 🙂

    Eight-Nation Alliance

    • Replies: @Agbars
  82. And yet, you and other China lovers can’t get enough of the down spiraling America. How is that possible? If it’s so good in the Middle Kingston (yes, the kingdom is sure trying to emulate anything anglo-saxon), why don’t you just move there? A beautiful chink would be an upgrade from a frowsy beanbag … why eat sloppy arroz con frijoles when you can be feasting on a lean rice noodle?

  83. China is nothing more than the test bed and model for the NWO, OWG Technocracy, run by capitalistic oligarch’s. The promoted hatred for Xi and the CCP is all a show, just like the Trump/Biden crap we are now going through in America. Of course the oligarchs want all of the old die-hard commies gone from the Chinese government. It has to make room for the new class of technocrats.

    In China,every move you make and breath you take is monitored and recorded. Your very life path can depend on something as simple as jay walking. Instant adjustments to your social credit score can mean being banned from public transportation all the way to full lock down in your crummy little high rise apartment.

    All you tourist who go there and are amazed at what an iron hand can do best beware. It will be the same here once we are laid low, which is being achieved as we speak.

    China will be the new model for Murika and the world once all the new 5G technology is up and running and the beast system goes online. Covid19 as been the global pack mule to get the whole Agenda 21/2030 to the point of implementation. We are very close my friends, with the election(no matter who wins)to be the event to start the mass chaos in America which will lead to marshal law, troops in the streets, and the end of America. Enjoy what little freedom you still have in the little time you have left.

    More on the China beast system which is coming to America and the rest of the world.

    • Replies: @Old and Grumpy
  84. Sean says:

    What a subtly dissimulating photograph. Here is some reality therapy

    CHINA has 106.3 males for every 100 females, compared with a global ratio of 101.8 to 100. In coming years, the workforce imbalance will only worsen because there are 117 boys under age 15 for every 100 girls.

    Immigration will correct it?

    [[SOME] elements of the original protests that started in Nanjing still evident in Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, such as banners proclaiming “Stop Taking Advantage of Chinese Women” even though the vast majority of African students had left the country by that point.

    Not hardly. But when China gets stong enough …

    THE Chinese government today issued the following important declaration:To the governments of Thailand, United Korea, Vietnam, Japan, Indonesia, the Philippines, and other East Asian nations:

    (1) Whereas the People’s Republic of China is currently experiencing a severe temporary shortage of the necessary means of reproduction, namely young women of marriageable age;
    (2) Whereas the other nations of East Asia currently have an adequate or even surplus supply of said means of reproduction; and
    (3) Whereas equal and fair distribution of the means of reproduction is required by Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought, is necessary for the maintenance of friendly and comradely lations among the peoples of Advanced Asia,
    (a) Encouragement must be sufficiently strong to ensure that at least 27,000,000 such women cross the Chinese border by next Tuesday … attached technical post-script. Preferential encouragement is expected to be given to virgin women, who must constitute at least 50% of each national contingent. … Before being sent, young women must be inspected and certified as belonging to one of the six physical beauty classification groups A,B,C,D,E, and F. […] Shipment of sub-standard women will not be tolerated

    Refusal to assist in meeting the comradely needs of the Chinese people will be considered an unfriendly act and punished accordingly. If necessary, military means will be employed to expropriate the surplus reproductive capacity requested, as well as an additional penalty amount imposed.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  85. Malla says:
    @Rogue

    “Great socialist” cheering on the destruction of Working classes in the West and the Unions after all that hard work to get decent pay and rights!!! So called “Socialists” (actually Marxists) are a truly confused lot.

    • Agree: GeneralRipper, Rogue
  86. @Uncle Al

    Wuhan lost 20 million cellphone accounts at a whack

    This garbage AGAIN ? This was categorically disproven:

    https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8717250566

  87. Malla says:
    @Thim

    Very good post. The Chinese will have to rein in their pride. A people who believed themselves to be the Middle Kingdom surrounded by tributary states and “barbarians” suddenly realize that those White devils are much more advanced then them and were not interested in adopting their superior culture. Add to that Japan went way ahead of them. But after a lot if hardship, revolution, deaths, purges and hard work now they have kind of made it into a respectable condition at the per capita level and pretty damn good at the national level/ global level. There is a risk that pride and arrogance would raise their ugly heads and actually lead to doom. Humility and tact is the best way to go for China. It does not matter what the globalist bloodsuckers do, need to keep cool and make powerful friends. The globalists could trap China easily into a war, just like they did Germany and Japan in WW2. Gotta be careful.

  88. @RVBlake

    And, as usual, it’s completely true.

  89. macilrae says:
    @Deep Thought

    Any largish group of “foreigners” cut loose abroad is apt to misbehave. British football fans are among the most famous for this but I have seen Germans, French, Israelis and Italians being pretty obnoxious too. They imagine themselves in a cultural bubble of their home air and feel free to deride the locals. Ethnicity will determine the culture – I remember in one football final in Italy, the Brits got themselves detested because when they were drunk they started picking fights; while the Irish were the darlings of their hosts because, when they got drunk (which was continually), they started singing and hugging people!

    Mind you, the famous tag: “Is this a private fight or can anyone join in?” Is indubitably Irish.

    I’ve commented elsewhere that while we can’t so anything about changing our genes, the culture that accompanies them can assuredly be adjusted.

  90. @Achmed E. Newman

    “We’re running out of decent places for freedom-loving people . . .”? Well, there’s no such thing as magic dirt:

    “There is no New Frontier
    We have got to make it here.”
    ~ The Eagles, “The Last Resort” (1976)

    Ballots don’t work. Bullets do.

    “[I]n the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them . . . ”

    Slavery may be defined as the inabilities to refuse and to leave. The state is slavery. Just picture Marion Cobretti as The Minuteman, facing the Lincoln Memorial, saying, “You’re the disease. I’m the cure.” Oh, wait – that’s just a movie. The television will not be revolutionized.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  91. macilrae says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Sure, the seasoned expatriates have long learned a degree of assimilation – I recall an American fellow on a bus in Shanghai who sat near the driver and exchanged jokes with him in fluent Mandarin – I was so impressed. Definitely these dudes will appear offhand when dealing with their newly-arrived fellow countrymen.

    Those loud tourists are, as I say, often petty bureaucrats; used to getting their way and treating people like dirt. Their salary (from the Iron Pot) would likely not fund their foreign travel – they get their riches from under-table donations.

    But you mention photo-taking. Westerners abroad can be even worse than Chinese in doing this – they seem to imagine that foreign countries are a sort of Disneyland, arranged for their entertainment, and don’t scruple to push a camera right in a local’s face and snap a shot. If that got done to them, at home, imagine their reaction.

    How often have we seen pictures of people taken by professional photographers in Third World countries where the subject’s face is expressing outrage at the intrusion?

  92. @Father O'Hara

    No, in fact it was NOT White British people at any level of society who “used agents” in any capacity – as the “agents” themselves were fully in charge of the operations from the beginning. Therefore this is just another of the thousand anti-White racist historical lies straight from the usual suspects – to cover up their own evils and endless trouble-making in otherwise functioning societies.

    Instead, it was exclusively NON-WHITE Jews. Check out the lives and times of the extended family of (((David Sassoon))) – gangsters and cutthroats who actually ran, controlled and viciously disciplined the entire operation, with no advice, assistance or input from the British government – or anyone else – ever needed or requested:

    http://tomatobubble.com/sassoon_family.html

    • Agree: Maowasayali
  93. @restless94110

    [And they did this 500 years ago. In 2020, who cares?]
    .
    I do and the western white supremacists care too for the opposite reason:
    .
    ““If we continue to lose it, we’re five years away, I think, 10 years at the most, of hitting an inflection point from which we’ll never be able to recover.””
    .
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-bannon-idUSKCN1AX0DE

    • Replies: @restless94110
  94. anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    American capitalists couldn’t rush fast enough to outsource everything they could to a vast low wage country like China. American workers were ditched without a second thought. Not very patriotic, these American capitalists. Along with that went huge transfers of knowledge which the Chinese wisely used to expand their capabilities. Anti-communist Nixon journeyed over there to shake the hand of the bloody communist revolutionary Mao, a strange idea when you consider that the two ‘isms’ are supposedly mortal enemies. American politicians have all been along for the ride, hollowing out America while profiting from the trade with them. The Chinese have gone up while we’ve gone down thanks to the short-sightedness, greed and treasonous behavior of our so-called elites. America shot itself in the foot deliberately.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
  95. @Sick of Orcs

    The true native Americans NEVER asked for a white America either…

  96. @Jake

    [… the Elites of today’s Red China act to do well for the Chinese people, because that is good for China.]
    .
    THAT really explains why the political elites of white West want to regime-change China!!!

  97. @ruralguy

    EXPAT QUESTIONS

    Why have the number of psychotics and homeless and petty criminals in America increased the last 20 years? When I was a young man living in America in the 90’s there were a few, certainly, but they were not everywhere.

    How do you define degeneracy? Taking drugs? Chinese do that? Prostitution? Common in China? Homosexuality? It exists?

    Yet in public view it is not out in the open. Why is America different?

    Why are Chinese able to run a country without whites but blacks cannot? Is it only IQ?

    Why is America unable to improve or repaid its infrastructure?

    [MORE]

    Why are Americans so religious and yet religion does not help them and yet Chinese are not religious but their living standard has improved?

    Why doesn’t American have a realistic minimum wage like Australia or Western Europe?

    What would happen if America went to war over the Philippines? Would America succeed or would the Chinese kill them? Would Americans volunteer in a draft for such a war?

    If Vietnam and China won against the Americans then why was there a war between China and Vietnam in 1979?

    Why do Chinese control the economies of Malaysia and Indonesia but not Korea or Japan?

    Why aren’t Chinese grateful that Americans drove the Japanese out of China in WWII?

    Do the Chinese hate the Japanese more or less than the Americans?

    Why do Chinese have more success as businesspeople in Southeast Asia than in Australia? Why don’t Chinese control that economy as well as SEA?

    Someone here referred to Native Americans? Aren’t they basically Chinese? Why do Native Americans deny being Asian when they obviously are? Why do Native Americans in tropical countries look different than Inuit?

    Why did the British create better colonies than the Spanish? Like Hong Kong vs Philippines?

    Why do Japanese dislike Chinese? Chinese dislike Japanese for their actions. But why do Japanese dislike them to begin with.

    Why has the US backslid so much in the last 20 years? Why was it so much better in the 90’s?

    What if China had blacks? Why do blacks have AIDS more than Chinese? Why do black women have pubic outbursts more often than Chinese women? Why don’t Chinese have children out-of-wedlock but blacks often do?

    What will China do when America is a Brazil with nuclear weapons.

  98. AndrewR says:
    @restless94110

    Show us on the doll where Mr. Reed touched you

    • Troll: restless94110
  99. Dr. Charles Fhandrich [AKA "Dr.C. Fhandrich"] says:

    Trump did not cause any of the mayhem and strife “problems” going on in the U.S. today. He simply caused them to be exposed. The underlying issues and the reasons for all of what we see today had been there all along. When the original culture of a nation abdicates its responsibilities in keeping the nation strong and sound, that nation is most likely doomed. That is what has been happening for well over a century now, the enemies and traitors of the U.S. have been allowed to take over for what ever reasons. Trump is the enemy of the enemies. He is the agent that is pushing the balance towards the center again. And that is not tolerated by the new masters.

  100. Commento says:

    What good the rail does vs intercontinental nuclear bombers? Asians never learn from history. -You turtle defensively. You lose. Han derived Asians never won a single thing except between themselves – its not in their culture, not in their blood.

    US invests into crushing any dissent. Chinese are too scared to contemplate the war scenario to seriously plan anything. So they will lose. As they always did
    p.s. Mongolians/manchu are not hans.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Jmaie
  101. Ah, I see. What about the Social Credit system, currently being implemented and designed to narrowly control every aspect of every individual’s life? We might consider the organ harvesting done in the prisons, often on political prisoners and religious minorities.

    We should take into account as well that almost all of China’s neighbors–Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Laos, et al.–are deeply concerned with China’s threatening military moves, not the least of which are the artificial islands they’ve built for military bases in the South China Sea hoping to reinforce flimsy claims of sovereignty. A huge part of the world’s shipping passes through that area, y’know. No wonder they want absolute control over it.

    China also claims an historical right to a huge chunk of Siberia, the economic ties China is building in the region, and the illegal immigration from China to Siberia.

    What’s more, an awful lot of that Chinese wealth may be all smoke and mirrors, a lot of bad debt covered up with slick bookkeeping. It would certainly explain why many of the new towns built around major industrial projects have dried up and become ghost towns.

    China also claims an historical right to a huge chunk of Siberia, building in the region and encouraging legal and illegal immigration from China to Siberia. China and Russia have already fought battles at that border.

    Oh, yeah, and that “heretical Christian” rebellion led by a nut job claiming to be Christ incarnate four centuries ago? The communists used brute force to impose a secularist political-economic philosophy, in the process killing somewhere between forty and sixty million people. That was in the last century, not four hundred years ago.

    You might also have mentioned China and the U.S. were allies against the Japanese militarists, and popular outrage against Japanese atrocities against the Chinese was a critical factor in the oil and scrap metal embargoes that eventually led to Pearl Harbor.

    You didn’t mention that American troops in Peking were there as part of an international force attempting to rescue their legations during the Boxer rebellion. Another thing you left out was the 2800 Chinese Christians who had taken shelter with the legations, and the siege of a Roman Catholic cathedral sheltering another 3500 Christians in Peitang defended by a handful of French and Italian troops. For months the Boxers roamed the countryside burning churches and killing Christians and missionaries.

    But bringing all that up would have made a sad joke of the portrait you were trying to paint of America as a great evil force in the world. History is seldom as simple and clear cut as you apparently would like it be.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  102. @Sean

    “In coming years, the workforce imbalance will only worsen because there are 117 boys under age 15 for every 100 girls.”

    We’re constantly reminded how the Chinese are in the forefront of newer ideas so here is one: China can promote homosexuality among the boys thus avoiding dependence on their surly neighbors for reproductive “raw materials.” In fact, China can be a net exporter of nubile virgins to the rest of the world once most of their boys are into buggery. It would be a win-win situation for all concerned!

    • Replies: @Sean
  103. Oh, yeah, I forgot. Those 800 military bases you’re so sarcastic about? The vast majority of them are radar stations, weather stations, fueling stations and the like. It’s not like we have 800 bases with thousands of American soldiers oppressing the local population around the world. Have you ever wondered what would happen to world trade if the United States didn’t control most of the sea lanes?

  104. jim jones says:

    The CCCP promotes the idea that most of China is like Shanghai but most of China is poor:

  105. @Malla

    “Without the White invention of Computers …”

    But without the Arabic numerals computing by mechanical devices wouldn’t be possible in which case, we’d be using the Chinese abacus to get to the moon.

  106. Malla says:
    @God's Fool

    Arabic numerals

    Arabic numerals??? Hindu numerals. And why did Hindus ans Arabs not invent the computer?

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  107. Frederick Reed has listed good things about China & omitted bad ones.

    So- what’s new?

    • Agree: TKK
  108. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    But the Whites conquered them militarily (old world disease helped a lot). The immigrants did not conquer them militarily. It would be akin to illegal immigrants fighting and winning against the U.S. Army. Also the natives fought back, by the same analogy, Whites have a right to fight back.
    Also how much percentage of people in Taiwan 500 years ago was Han and how much was it native Taiwanese? And how much is that percentage today? Did it change?

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  109. Alden says:
    @VinnyVette

    2 very noteworthy Chinese inventions of world wide importance were wallpaper and crippling some but not all Han women with bound feet to be status symbols.

    Kudos!!!!!!!

    America’s 2 most important inventions are
    1 worship and adoration of black criminals.
    2 Aiding and abetting the destruction of everyone of our great cities by the black criminals.

    • LOL: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
    , @Truth
    , @TKK
    , @SteveK9
  110. Anon[100] • Disclaimer says:
    @VinnyVette

    Hey Vinny, as an aside, the black powder rifles are about the same power as air rifles (invented by Europeans hundreds of years ago)! A big bore air gun has the same power as a black powder rifle. To compensate for the slow development of explosive force by black powder, Americans came up with the Kentucky long rifle, that is about the same concept used for similar power air rifles. See the AirForce big bore air rifles.

    There is even some history of use of air rifles used in war. So even without black powder, air guns could have accomplished some of the same history as black powder guns.

    Rifle power really increased with invention of gun cotton, a European invention, early 1800’s. No need for long rifles anymore.

    Anyone that wants to know about air guns, see http://thegodfatherofairguns.com/

  111. If it’s so wonderful in China, why are so many here in my university city? Just to enroll and commit espionage in our academies?

  112. @Commento

    What good did intercontinental bombers do for the United States in Afghanistan? Twenty years later, it is still what it was in the year 2000.

    China has railways because it didn’t piss away the money in the sands of deserts.

    Sure, China turtles. The US goes to various countries, ends up in long protracted wars that cost billions, is a little more broke it was after Vietnam and definitely Afghanistan, the Federal Government and Pentagon try to stiff National Guardsmen at the VA because they cannot afford the actual costs of wars, the US falls behind a little more…the end.

    China doesn’t even need to go to war with the US. Afghanistan was really the beginning of a downward spiral as desperate cops who needed quotas ramped up the abuse of black drug dealers whose own economic situation made them more desperate which then results in endless riots and looting that will go on continuously.

    Americans who have never traveled beyond one trip to Florida call China or Asia a hellhole while they sit in their dingy one story splintery wooden frame house or trailer or low-rent apartment having no idea just how well the Chinese and Arabs are living and of course the elites with yachts in Nice and an apartment in the Burj know but ordinary Americans are convinced the live in the greatest country in the world as their bridges collapse. The elite have apartments in Dubai skyscrapers while they tell poor lumpens that they have to die in the ME because the people are poor and need democracy and the dumb rural lumpen believe em.

    The poverty of the US interior is downright astonishing in places and China does not have endless homeless people.

    Unlike other countries, where the population simply knows the media is lies and everything is rubbishy propaganda when the US wants a new war for young people to die all (THEY) have to do is make a few commercials and show the president raking leaves in his yard dressed like a lumberjack and the GOP lumpen proles will volunteer.

    I was watching CHICAGO PD on Asian TV because we get second-rate shows like that and in it the captain says “This is the greatest city in the world” and I just gaped because in real life Americans believe that with 800 murders a year or whatever.

    I’ve been overseas for 20 years of my 46 and the US somehow swirled down the toilet about 2o years ago.

    I’m not a Democrat. Not at all. And I’m not Hebrew. But it seems as if the rural white Anglo-Celtics are easier to fool and manipulate than the wary and skeptical Jews, Italians, Chinese, Arabs, Indians, Latinos.

    • Replies: @GeneralRipper
  113. Alden says:
    @God's Fool

    Not Arabic numbers, ancient Indian numbers that came to the Mid East . BTW, there were Roman recipes for noodle dishes like lasagna and ravioli.

    Honest to God, thus discussion reminds me of all those 1st year high school World Culture courses that denigrate everything Europe and the White people of the world ever did while glorifying every other race including non European Whites, like Turks and Arabs.

    Or going to a party in England and being accosted by some English snob to be lectured that “ there is no public transport in NYC”. Who then starts a harangue about blacks and slavery but denies the fact that importation of blacks and the 1654 legalization of slavery occurred under English rule.

    China’s a great important country and has been for 5,6,000 years. Why not leave it at that?

    America might never recover from the present Soros BLM ACTBLUE revolution.

  114. Dr. Charles Fhandrich [AKA "Dr.C. Fhandrich"] says:

    I just read an advertising headline headline at Yahoo. It said that REAL NEWS, (apparently meaning news Yahoo posts),has never been more important than it is today.

    That was about the funniest thing I’d read in a long time.

  115. @Johnny Walker Read

    Have absolutely no clue what the trade war is about. Trade is still happening, and any tariff is of short duration. Does indeed seem like a poorly scripted and acted show.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
  116. @VinnyVette

    Perhaps you should re-reed the article. It was 19th century intervention by the US and European powers that caused the well functioning country of China to collapse in the first place.

    • Replies: @Alden
  117. @Malla

    You would have to ask Indians and Arabs as to why they didn’t invent the computer but my guess is if the high IQ Chinese couldn’t do it then the lower IQ ones certainly had no chance but it’s no surprise in case of whites, for they have invented pretty much everything modern.

  118. @Malla

    Then how do the whites justified their “Free Tibet”, “Free Turkistan” craps?
    .
    I noted that there are some “Free Tibeters” in India too. Maybe, the Chinese should organise some “Free Khasmir”, Free Khalistan”, “Free Seven Sisters”… campaigns?
    .
    You have answered your own question about Taiwan. The Chinese HAD conquered Taiwan. And it will conquer Taiwan when the time comes.

  119. Agent76 says:

    Sep 8, 2020 China’s dictatorship ‘getting more aggressive, hostile and ready for war’

    It comes as two Australian journalists have landed in Sydney after being rushed home from China following advice from officials in Beijing around fears for their safety.

    Aug 31, 2020 China Invades Nepal Border in India Fight

    Chinese forces have invaded Nepal. But the government of Nepal, run by the Nepal Communist Party, denies its happening.

  120. @Alden

    […Chinese inventions of world wide importance were wallpaper…]
    .
    Nope! The greatest Chinese invention is toilet paper. More than once, I asked the deniers of Chinese inventions WHEN they will switch to using their left-hand instead. And even then they would still be appropriating some OTHER people’s invention!!! ;-D, ;-D, ;-D
    .
    .
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21628962.900-soft-strong-and-long-the-story-of-toilet-paper.html?full=true
    .

    Soft, strong and long: The story of toilet paper
    04 January 2013 by Richard Smyth

    [MORE]

    .
    Magazine issue 2896. Subscribe and save
    For similar stories, visit the Histories and Christmas Science Topic Guides
    .
    If the medical establishment had got its way, we would still be wiping our behinds on newspaper
    .
    “GRAND and unapproachable discovery!” declared the pages of Scientific American.
    .
    It was the 1850s – an age of invention that saw the birth of the modern sewing machine, the safety elevator and the machine gun. Readers squinting at the small print below the eye-catching headline may have been perplexed to find an advert for Joseph C. Gayetty’s Medicated Paper, America’s first commercial toilet paper – the “greatest blessing of the age”, he trumpeted.
    .
    Gayetty’s announcement proved to be surprisingly provocative. Whereas loo roll may now be considered an essential home comfort, in the 1850s the idea of forking out good money for mere “bum fodder” was greeted by a chorus of mocking laughter from scientists. Medics were particularly concerned by Gayetty’s assertion that his new paper could cure piles, and soon took to the pages of leading medical journals to lampoon the loo-roll pioneer.
    .
    Despite his grandiose claims, Gayetty was not the first to “discover” toilet paper. As with the compass, the wheelbarrow, silk and gunpowder, the Chinese had got there hundreds of years earlier. Paper had been circulating in China since the 2nd century and it didn’t take long for people to apply it to their behinds. Even the Emperor Hongwu, a brutal despot ruling in the 14th century, showed his more sensitive side by ordering 15,000 sheets of extra-soft, perfumed toilet paper for his imperial household.
    .
    But the innovation did not spread to the west. The yeomen of Britain were content with fistfuls of sheep’s wool or leaves (leading to an excellent medieval joke: Q. What is the cleanest leaf? A. The holly, for no one will wipe his arse on it). Aristocrats would deploy scraps of linen or cloth. Or rather, they’d have someone deploy them on their behalf – a servant’s manual from the 14th century advises the “groom of the stool” to be ready with an “arse-wispe” at the critical moment.
    .
    With the advance of the printing press, people soon turned to the disused pages of pamphlets and books. As the 17th century author Thomas Browne wrote: “He that writes abundance of books, and gets abundance of children, may in some sense be said to be a benefactor to the public, because he furnishes it with bumfodder and soldiers.”
    .
    All this was to change in the 19th century. Gayetty was not alone in his attempt to commercialise toilet paper. British firm GW Atkins & Co, who were UK market leaders in the 1890s, claimed to have held a royal warrant since 1817. This, however, may have just been marketing bumf.
    .
    In any case, it was Gayetty’s Medicated Paper that caused the biggest storm, almost as soon as it joined such products as Upham’s Hair Gloss and Kellinger’s Liniment on the groaning shelves of US drugstores. The sheets, Gayetty declared, were “delicate as a bank-note and as stout as foolscap”. But what really riled the medical establishment was his boast that it could “cure and prevent piles”. Printer’s ink is not, in fact, a “rank poison”, as he claimed, and does not cause haemorrhoids – but that didn’t stop many companies from pushing loo roll as a remedy until the 1930s.
    .
    With their breeches down
    .
    Medical journals were soon awash with anti-Gayetty satire. “Homoeopathy, hydropathy, et id homne genus [sic] must now hide their diminished heads,” sneered the New Orleans Medical News and Hospital Gazette. “Mr Gayetty of New York City has found that the public mind is prepared for anything whatever in the shape of humbuggery, and he at once, with true Yankee readiness, administers to their rapacious appetites in a manner to be admired, if humbuggery is ever admirable.”
    .
    In a more ribald vein, the Medical and Surgical Reporter wrote that “empiricism has changed tactics. Its usual bold effrontery is turned to attack the public in the rear. Mr Gayetty of New York intends to take advantage of them by catching them with their breeches down.”
    .
    It wasn’t long before The Lancet caught the whiff of good sport to be had. “[It] might be of use to the surgeons who take the rectal region under their care to know that the prognosis, pathology and therapeutics of [piles] are simplified in an uncommon degree, and that their occupation is now gone to the wall,” the writer sniffed. “All that is required is a simple piece of paper with the name ‘Gayetty’ stamped on it.”
    .
    Of course, Gayetty’s product was no mere flash in the pan. Even if it didn’t really cure piles, the public must have appreciated the comfort of dedicated toilet tissue, and it soon spawned a host of copycat products. However, consumer expectation does not seem to have been high. Northern Tissue’s declaration that its paper was “splinter free!” in the 1930s gives a startling indication of how eye-watering some early offerings must have been. Today, the toilet paper industry is worth $3.5 billion annually in the US alone, with the average individual using more than 20,000 sheets a year.
    .
    But could we now be entering the twilight of the Gayetty era? Just as the Chinese revolutionised bum-cleansing with their high-tech wipes, their neighbours across the East China Sea in Kokura, Japan, have applied third-millennium science to bringing the practice up to date with the Washlet.
    .
    Launched in 1980 by Toto after years of research in bottom-centric ergonomics, the Washlet delivered a triple-whammy of toilet comforts: its heated seat keeps your buttocks cosy, a jet of warm water hoses you down and a gust of air dries you off. By 2009, 72 per cent of Japanese households were equipped with a Washlet or equivalent device.
    .
    So Gayetty’s “discovery” may one day become as obsolete as the steam whistles, gage cocks and Ohio mowers that also featured on Scientific American’s classified ads page that week. On the other hand, “quack remedies” can be surprisingly resilient, as pointed out by this review of a new journal in 1869. “The price of The Homoeopathic Quarterly is $1 per annum,” the author notes. “Neither so cheap nor so serviceable as Gayetty’s Medicated Paper.”
    .
    Richard Smyth is the author of Bum Fodder: An absorbing history of toilet paper (Souvenir Press, 2012)

  121. @J

    The real comparison should be made between Israel and China, as in the Ashkenazi tribe and the Han tribe, not “Israel” and “China”; the former run Israel; the latter, China. The Khazars were easily able to infiltrate Europe and the US, change surnames from already changed surnames and “assimillate” while subverting the host culture. Let’s see them try that with the Han Chinese instead of deracinated Whites of European origin infected/indoctrinated with shlomovid-’20.

    It saddens me that after many years friendship with individuals of Jewish background (rarely practicing the religion), I find myself drifting away from them owing to difficult conversations in any way critical of their heritage and of th responsibility the tribe bears for much destructive behavior in its host countries, but my patience with the tribe and its Zionist outpost in the middle east is exhausted. Now that they have a homeland, all of us of European extraction would not be displeased if they were to emigrate there from our nations, those they seem to despise, judging by their words, actions and incessant complaints.

    It’s past time for Europeans, Euro-Americans, and Latin Americans to start complaining incessantly about them.

  122. @Deep Thought

    ‘Human Rights’ were well spelled out 2500 years ago.
    Known today as the Cyrus Cylinder, this ancient record has now been recognized as the world’s first charter of human rights. It is translated into all six official languages of the United Nations and its provisions parallel the first four Articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
    https://www.humanrights.com/course/lesson/background-of-human-rights/the-background-of-human-rights.html

  123. Bookish1 says:
    @ruralguy

    We can thank that ALLIED victory in 1945 for the end of the U.S.

  124. Corrupt says:

    “people sullen and dispirited. As we flew out on Aeroflot, people spontaneously broke into applause as we passed the Russian frontier.

    This is not China.”

    That has more to do with the historical Chinese culture rather than the relatively small difference in oppression between the Soviet and the Chinese governments.

  125. Anonymous[386] • Disclaimer says:
    @Supply and Demand

    Where I live in America the women look great. Money, coastal, health conscious exercising beauties everywhere. Walking around a few weeks ago I noticed every woman was hot. Short, tall, tan, pale. Different color eyes and hair. Straight or curly. Oh man, no doubt there are sections of the country where the women are horrific.. but not around here!

    You can keep your Asian women. In my opinion, and it’s just an opinion, they all pretty much look the same. They are not the subservient feminine goddesses many seem to think either. That’s deliberate and calculated behavior to rope you in. All races of women are guilty of this ploy. The actual kind, helpful and loving female is tough to find in this day of self serving feminists.

  126. After reading Fred’s comparisons of today’s China with today’s USSA, I’m left with one thought that stands out from the others: Unlike the USSA, China is not ruled by a criminal oligarchy whose primary mission is to destroy the country and the people over whom they rule.

    • Agree: Robjil
  127. Bookish1 says:
    @Deep Thought

    Who in China invented gun powder? There were whites in china during different times in history. So why did the HAN suddenly stop inventing things for a few thousand years?

  128. I’ve been to China plenty of times.

    All those construction projects fall apart in just a few years, like 2-3. It’s still polluted like crazy. He left out the part about beggars who disfigure themselves to earn money.

    This is clearly written by someone as a tourist with superficial knowledge of the country.

  129. @Father O'Hara

    It was the attack of Dr. Fu Man Joo! The Yellow Peril had to bide its time.

  130. @Ber

    Science and Civilization in China, seven large, illustrated volumes. Try and find them now! And if you can, well, they’re a bit pricey. Began reading them in 1972, haven’t finished yet. Fascinating research, brilliant achievement!

  131. @God's Fool

    Indian numerals , including the “O” I think.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  132. @Johnny Smoggins

    “If you want to grab a beer and drink it on the bus on the way home, no problem. If you want to open up a business, no problem. As long as you don’t take it upon yourself to be a “human rights activist” you will have no problems with the police or government.”

    In their wisdom the CPC has learned that if you give everybody every possible opportunity to enrich themselves (or at least don’t stand in their way) and don’t enforce petty regulations over people’s daily lives, the incentive for political dissent tends to be greatly reduced.

    This can never be replicated in the USSA as long as it is ruled by a (((malicious kleptoligarchy))).

  133. Truth says:
    @Alden

    America’s 2 most important inventions are
    1 worship and adoration of black criminals.
    2 Aiding and abetting the destruction of everyone of our great cities by the black criminals.

    Aldey, you forgot:
    3 The Men of Unz.

    I read in his biography that Tesla tried to create something similar. for most of his adult life and was unsuccessful.

  134. @Rahan

    So exactly what defines an “illegal cult?” One that commits acts of violence and is therefore really a criminal organization, or one that espouses otherwise peaceful beliefs that merely run counter to the dominant ethno-nationalist dogma or watered down Marxism espoused by the CPC? Inquiring minds, many of them, would like to know.

    • Replies: @Rahan
  135. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:

    After Fred’s first paragraph suggesting a farcical moral equivalence between Trump and Biden, I knew I could skip to the end of Fred’s Inside History of China, which I did, and find the embedded lie–in this case some talk about China’s R&D still having some catching up to do, just the smallest of details of course, when in truth China’s supposed R&D miracle, like Israel’s, consists of decades of flagrant industrial and military espionage against the United States at a level justifying massive compensation, like, say, in China’s case, eating its stock of US Treasurys, in lieu of war. I’m still wondering, if Jews and Chinese and Indians are so very much smarter than European whites, how the former groups have never invented anything in the modern era worth mentioning not derived from what was stolen from the United States and Europe.

  136. @Deep Thought

    You care about the invention of gun powder?

    Is that like these friends of mine who construct toy soldiers and arrange them on a “battlefield” in their basements?

    Or maybe stamp collectors who are looking for that 1898 Honduran 2 peso stamp?

    I care about Gothic architecture in the 9tjh Century.

    Who cares? No one. Except me. And apparently, you.

    Gun powder is so 12th century, dude.

    Let it go.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  137. Marcali says:

    Not to forget that China exhibits all the hallmarks of a Fascist state, hence growing living standard.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
    , @Vidi
  138. Whitewolf says:
    @Curmudgeon

    What is a cruise missile other than an improvement on 1000 year old Chinese fireworks?

    What is a passenger jet other than an improvement on 2000 year old Chinese kites?

  139. @Agent76

    China’s official position is they claim all territories once held by The Celestial Empire, but later lost. The invasion of Tibet was an implementation of that policy, but there is more: The Five Fingers of Tibet. The five fingers are: Ladahk, Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan, and Arunchal Pradesh. Regaining sovereignty over The Five Fingers is official Chinese policy since Mao and still is today. China plans to invade and absorb these territories with implementation by 2030-2035. They are quite open about their intentions. The Five Fingers of Tibet policy is the reason for the border clashes since 1962. Notice the timeline: invasion of Tibet 1959, border clashes with India beginning 1962, continuing to this day. China’s courting of Pakistan is a part of this policy. China wants to overextend India by forcing India to deal militarily with China and Pakistan simultaneously. China’s, further, unstated, intention is likely to “fill in the gaps on the map” between The Five Fingers, moving the China/India border several hundred miles south from today resulting in the entire montane zone becoming Chinese territory, making the vast water resources of the Tibetan Icecap 100% Chinese. All of India’s northern rivers originate there, and the major rivers of Bangladesh. This ridiculous situation is the greatest threat to world peace in the 21st century. Three nations, with batshit crazy leaders and a batshit crazy population, armed with nuclear weapons, fighting over that most precious resource: WATER, and none of the three willing or able to back down.

  140. Panadechi says:

    A picture is worth a thousand words …

  141. @Deep Thought

    The American Indians were not a unified nation and had no borders. Also, very little metalworking. Their “nations” were busy killing one another before Paleface ever arrived.

    They weren’t “native” either, they migrated across the then-existing land bridge between Russia and Alaska.

    If we’re gonna play this game, this is all dinosaur land, conquered by an Imperialist no-doubt Huwhite hot asteroid.

  142. Anon[421] • Disclaimer says:

    Life in China sounds rather nice, good to know. In the NY City of my birth, in 1942,
    the town was 90% White, all officials were men, and it was generally safe and well run.
    The Han Chinese have a cohesion we can only dream of. One reason ‘patriots’ despise
    the “Chicoms” is that the globalists here gave away the keys to the kingdom, making
    China the world’s manufacturing powerhouse of today. Guilt by association.
    It also seems that Hollywood is beholden to China, also an associative guilt.
    Can’t help but envy conditions there, while we are torn asunder into two warring camps.

    • Agree: Alden
  143. Anon[100] • Disclaimer says:

    And another Chinese invention: vaccination/immunization. Yes, for small pox. They used scabs from infected person, and aged them, then put them into nose of infant. Knowledge filtered across Asia to Turkey, from there English picked it up.

  144. Georgia says:
    @anonymous

    Now dead amd receiving his Eternal “Reward”–David Rockefeller is the architect of “Modern” China — it is the Bankster “Model” for the world– his fingerprints are all over it and the destruction of the USA was all part of his plan and comes from him, his allies and paid off NWO “Experts”…the CVirus Medical Martial Law is straight from the Rockefeller Foundation and Gates who is basically an adjunct to it….

    • Agree: Alden, Maowasayali
  145. @J

    Imagine, Fred, that you are the only macho in the barrio with a gun. You get drunk in the bodega and sleep well. While you are sleeping, another hijo got a bigger gun. He is a very nice guy yet your tequila con gusano tastes less well and you sleep badly. America simply cannot co-exist with another great power. This barrio is too small for the both of them. Comprende?

    So what sort of nut, in Fred’s situation, takes the very nice guy’s offers to help make the barrio a better place, for all its inhabitants as an insult, spits in his eye and treads on his toes?

  146. @Uncle Al

    “American Democracy writ large: The One State is Mother. The One State is Father. The One State is God, Truth, Beauty, and Justice. The One State makes decisions, the people make mistakes.”

    The current devotion to the Corporate One State’s viral panic lockdown shows little difference to China.

    Citizens willing to sacrifice everything, in the belief that the State can, and will, save them from a virtual threat that the State created and promoted.

    September 11, 2001. COVID-19. Just another escalation of water temperature in the pot.

    Something does not need to be real, if you are willing to believe anything that you are told.

    “It’s not a lie, if you [can be made to] believe it’s true”

    • Agree: Maowasayali
  147. @Bombercommand

    India’s already lost. The consent factory just needs time to spin it for the goyim across the sea.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  148. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    It’s not good to write what you really don’t know.

    If Africa was not black Bantu land as you call it where did they come from? All the Bantu and the Nilotes and the Cushites were all in Africa. Most migrated at will or when which ever tribe was strong compelled them to. Like the Zulu in south Africa causing fellow Bantu Ndembele (which had many similarities with the Zulu themselves) to move to central and east Africa assimilating some native tribes like Twana, Sotho, Rozvi and Swazi, before mostly settling mainly in Zimbabwe. Many Africa tribes are related because of assimilation and conquest —– where new tribes also emerged by the merging with others. But to claim that either Bantu or Cushites or Nilotes were not African natives is ludicrous. Where did they come from?

    • Replies: @Malla
  149. Astaroth says:
    @Anonymous

    Humans only eat grass when they have nothing else to eat. This happened in China during Mao’s ‘Great Leap Forward’ (from late 1950s to early 1960s). Mao simply didn’t care that millions were starving to death. I don’t think the Chinese have eaten grass since that particularly dark period.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  150. @Anonymous

    I’ve been told that women just try to rope you in with a kid and then harangue you, too. My father, a baby boom divorcee warned me as such.

    Anecdotally, my first wife, a white woman, gained ~50lbs post childbirth, became addicted to made-in-India fentanyl, and accidentally killed herself from a sleeping pill overdose leaving behind a 1 year old. I have very little idea how all that happened so quickly, as I was in Taiwan pursuing a major business opportunity. I made a salary in the high six figures USD as an educational tech consultant, and expected this woman with a decent upbringing who had been my high school sweetheart to not fall off a cliff in less time than it took her to carry a child to term. I certainly played my part of the deal by letting her be a stay at home mother on my dime.

    I remarried after moving to Dalian with a high-society Manchu whose father is in the CPC nomenklatura. She has not only had a child of her own with me, but she is a wonderful surrogate mother to my other daughter, and I love her all the more for it. Obviously, people are different and women are mostly dim witted, but my wife has restored my faith in humanity, and it’s my dear hope that the 21st century ends up being run by Christianized Tungusics.

    • Thanks: chris
    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Obsequious
  151. China is run by ruling families, as is every other nation on Earth.

    Mao was a scion of an ultra wealthy family as was Chiang. A battle between the ruling families. If along the way some peasants die, so what?

    No ruling family members actually die in these kinetic affairs. Just the commoners in the trenches.

    Taiwan was set up as an outlet nation for selling to the anti communist world. Also convenient for occasional sabre rattling when the MIC needs more profits.

    Same deal in the Boxer Rebellion, with a coalition of international ruling families pitted against the local ruling families. (Sounds like Afghanistan and Iraq in the 21st century.)

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Vidi
  152. anon[412] • Disclaimer says:

    Western men who praise China come from two backgrounds:

    1) Those who can make a lot of money in China

    2) Those who can’t attract Western women

    And Fred ain’t rich

    China is an autocratic , amoral hellhole that together with Islam will destroy civilization

  153. @Malla

    At the time of Mongols, the Muslim world’s castle tech was not bad comparing to the Europeans’, and yet the Mongols managed to defeat the Muslims almost completely if not for the death of another Great Khan.

    It was after the Mongol time that the Ottomans came to be and took Constantinople and pushed to Vienna. Are you suggesting that West Europe’s castles of an earlier time were better than that of Constantinople?

    • Replies: @Malla
  154. Alden says:
    @Curmudgeon

    The Taiping Rebellion, like our civil war, southern rebels against the north based government, off and on 1830-1870 ravaged S China not 14 years, 2 retarded emperors most of the 19th century, absolute refusal of the men in the Manchu royal family to step up and establish a functioning regency, leaving governance of the country to corrupt eunuchs, and 2 empresses who did the best they could, and the total stupidity of the aged Empress designating as heir a 3 year old baby instead of the many middleaged and young adult men of the royal family. Some historians claim all the men of the decadent royal family refused to be designated as heirs preferring to lounge about in their palaces

    Read some real history books don’t just parrot the lies you were taught.

    The 5,6,000 year history of China, like the history of most nations is a histories of ups and downs. Right now it’s up. 19th century it went down mostly due to the endless Taiping rebellion and 60 years of retarded emperors with no help from the extensive royal family except the 2 wives of retardo 1 and mother of retardo 2

    Look at America now compared to 100 years ago. We’re in worse condition right now than China ever was in the 19th century.

  155. TKK says:
    @Alden

    The media rhetoric that demonizes whites and bestows victim/saint status on blacks has real time, horrific consequences.

    She does not know this man. She is using public transport, minding her own affairs in Miami.

    *** I am sorry I could not get the screen grab- but it is worth the time to watch this.

    In a world jammed with hyperbole, this is truly sickening.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8756035/Moment-man-25-viciously-assaults-lone-female-rider-29-unprovoked-attack-Miami-metro.html#v-6563087828064055520

  156. @idealogus

    Good or bad, it is the fate of the Chinese people. If the US could just stay away.

    The US has proved itself unable to improve the quality of life of people of other countries. Please do not come around trying to help.

    South Korea is a success story, but really it took a long time before South Korea stopped being called a basket case in the newspapers of the US.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  157. @Achmed E. Newman

    Lol.

    Are you hijacking the comments of this article to promote your retarded website?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  158. @Agent76

    Are you a 3 letter agency mud spreader?

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  159. Alden says:
    @Supply and Demand

    Indian fentanyl? So first wife’s death must have occurred within the last 5 years? FYI, drug addicts usually don’t gain weight. Sorry you made a bad choice first time.

    My husband looks like a blue eyed blond Viking God well did, when he was young . He’s been a better than usual husband. Therefore I can make the ridiculous assertion that only men of Scots descent who look like the Viking invaders are good husbands

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  160. Alden says:
    @anon

    China is China. Only the Chinese are entitled to pontificate and make judgements about it.

  161. martin_2 says:
    @Malla

    When people say to me that we know from archaeology that parts of the world other than Europe, such as Africa or South America, once had great cities and architecture too, I always ask them “Who were the people that did the digging?” It turns out of course that the men who sought out and wrote about these ruins are white men.

    • Replies: @Malla
  162. martin_2 says:
    @anon

    I can’t understand this conceit about white women being the most desirable. They are less feminine than Oriental women for racial, genetic reasons, and far, far more white women are fat and completely asexy.

    • Replies: @el_comandante_rey
  163. @VinnyVette

    I could go on add nauseum…

    Enough already!

    What great inventions have the Chinese had on offer since fireworks?

    Cast iron, porcelain, deep tube wells, paper, compass and printing with movable type. Quantum (unhackable) communication satellite. A cure for malariia. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3260502/Three-scientists-discovered-drugs-a), https://historyplex.com/chinese-inventions At the moment the Chinese are taking out more patents than anyone else. They have landed a lander and a rover on the far side of the moon, and arranged an almost stationary satellite to relay messages to and from it. (I wonder where they stole that idea from?)

    agriculture,

    The Chinese have been engaged in agriculture for thousands of years before Europe and unlike many countries they have managed to do so without destroying the soil in the process.

    Really, the idea that the Chinese are “not ingenious” is a myth that the anti-Chinese in the rest of the World, use to comfort themselves. Like all such faulty crutches it will prove harmful to its users in the long run.

    • LOL: VinnyVette
    • Replies: @VinnyVette
  164. The Chinese government lifted millions out of poverty? What a fucking idiot you are. You are either a gook (aren’t they all called “Johnny” or “Fred”?), or you are a white-boy that thinks he likes gook pussy because he can’t get white pussy, and so tows the line. The UNITED STATES lifted millions of Chinese out of poverty by exporting American tech and American management skills. Whatever else those fucking gooks needed, they stole or learned in US universities. Remember, per capita, China is still a third-world country. Don’t believe me? Look at the stats….or for the laymen here, I have only two words: BAT SOUP. Where else in the world do “men” eat endangered rhino horn to get a bigger pecker?

    Why did the US facilitate China’s growth? Because the traitors in our government had budget deficits and thought they needed Chinese trinkets exported to the US so that the gooks would buy Treasuries. Greedy American corporations were happy to further this. We all know Home Depot is full of Chinese garbage; screws that don’t screw, tape that doesn’t stick, tools that break, etc. Funny thing is, I don’t remember stuff getting any cheaper when I buy it…even though it is made in China. Christ…these assholes even clean 50 foot diameter spheres of gunk from their sewers, boil it and sell it as “cooking oil” (The Economist).

    Now China, always taking the long view, believes it is strong enough to “right past wrongs”. Big risk. I think most Americans would favor nuking this shit-hole country back to the stone-age where it was thirty years ago, except for maybe a few dozen of their better looking, half-white women. The only segment of our population that would not favor this is Wall Street….where “financial engineering” exports are booming. Perhaps we can avoid war and let these fucking jews silently flush the entire country down the toilet in fifty years while pocketing all profits, like they have done in the US.

    Fuck you and fuck your book too. Asshole.

    • Agree: VinnyVette
    • Thanks: Corrupt
    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Biff
    , @showmethereal
  165. Ace says:
    @restless94110

    Here’s a thought. Various aspects of other nations can be noticed and commented on with absolutely no responsibility to “reform” or “uplift” said nations or to place them in several pigeon holes because we find it entertaining. I know that sounds crazy but it’s true. Just like things here at home, things around the world can just be left alone to develop, change, or regress as local conditions and objectives dictate.

    Given that it is “messy” in the West — and “messy” hard captures the depravity, lunacy, stupidity, recklessness, cowardice, hypocrisy, pandering, and betrayal that are the signature virtues of almost all Western elites — it rather undercuts the persuasiveness of Energizer Bunny Pompeo and Trump and eats away at their self-selected job as Light unto the World. All told mind our own business should replace E Pluribus Unum until we get our act together.

  166. Ron Unz says:

    Well, as many here are probably aware, I strongly endorse Fred’s perspective on these issues. I’ve been predicting these sorts of China trends for over 40 years, and for anyone interested, back in 2012 I published a long article on the China/America comparison:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinese-melamine-and-american-vioxx-a-comparison/

    It contained an interesting chart showing the relative changes in the per capita GDPs, and those trends have mostly continued in the eight years since. That’s pretty obviously the reason there’s such extraordinary hostility in our totally corrupt and incompetent ruling American elites towards China these days:

    • Replies: @Badger Down
    , @Anon
    , @Sean
  167. @Astaroth

    At that time US sanctions prevented the Chinese from buying grain on the world market. The Chinese had a vast experience of famine and during famines people would eat all sorts of plants that they would not eat in more plentiful times. Where is the evidence that “Mao did not care”?

    • Replies: @The Plutonium Kid
  168. “FYI, drug addicts usually don’t gain weight.”

    Well, Lenny Bruce weighed around 300 pounds when he died on the toilet from a heroin overdose. And I recall that my favorite fascist junkie, Goering, was pretty hefty himself. The image of the emaciated junkie is that of the poor addicted slob who doesn’t have any money.

  169. Art says:

    China has a huge negative that puts it and the world in danger. It has a leader for life. This cannot turn out good.

    He has an enormous nationalist chip on his shoulder, that is a danger to humanity. His approach to governance, is total state control. A nationalist confrontation with the world will be needed to maintain party political control over the Chinese people.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  170. @foolisholdman

    Where is the evidence that “Mao did not care”?

    Among other things, Mao instituted a “If you don’t work, you don’t eat” rule. Since everyone was required to eat at state run kitchens where food was rationed to the last grain of rice, disabled and elderly people unable to eat were denied any food at all and left to starve. Only adults able to work and children were permitted to eat. That sounds like brutish indifference to me.

  171. @Deep Thought

    The true native Americans NEVER asked for a white America either…

    I assume you are talking about American Indians. I am White and also most assuredly a native American.

    Native – Being the place or environment in which a person was born or a thing came into being:

  172. gavishti says:
    @Malla

    You seem to have married white and well.
    Congratulations, and thank you for denigrating India and Indians for they are such a downtrodden Race with no achievements at all to think of.

    Be well and happy and do keep your masks handy at all times 😉

    • Replies: @Malla
  173. SteveK9 says:
    @Protagonist

    99% of patents these days are derivative garbage … it’s a massive industry for lawyers. The days when it was actually a measure of invention (I hate ‘innovation’) are gone.

  174. SteveK9 says:
    @Alden

    Those are our most recent inventions. We did have a few before that.

  175. Anon[843] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Well, let me say this: it’s not about that specific reply of yours, and argument you stepped into right there, it’s about life.

    When you hear something particularly unbalanced (not as in «insane», but as in «unfair»), there are two possibilities: either the statement’s author(s) are idiotic, or, far more often this is the case, they are biased: that is, their «opinions» are shaped by what they will to be true.
    It shouldn’t take a genious to see how in both cases arguing is, basically, lack of self-respect.

    And don’t tell me you have the illusion that you can demonstrate your points through logic, reasoning, and suchlike.
    You can’t demonstrate anything to people who will to believe otherwise.

    Most important things can’t be demonstrated even to good-willing people who try to be objective. You can’t. Everybody must realize things by themselves, in the end.

    • Replies: @Malla
  176. anon[454] • Disclaimer says:
    @Uncle Al

    Like so many you have one website that we can do without. almost sounds like its written by the CIA or one of its off-spring of which there are many. pushing your nonsense off on to the seedy.!!!

  177. Sean says:
    @God's Fool

    http://benedante.blogspot.com/2014/04/selective-infanticide-and-viking.html

    Starting around 790 CE, the Vikings exploded across Europe, first trading and raiding, then conquering and settling. But why? Where did all of those Norse warriors come from?

    There have been all sorts of theories. James Barrett has a review article in the latest Antiquity, and Archaeology in Europe has a summary. Barrett rejects that notion that the Viking expansion was driven by new technology; since Saxons raided across the North Sea in Roman times, whatever boats they had then were adequate to the task. He also rejects climate change. He ends up focusing on competition for wives among “surplus” men, and a sort of ideology of conquest and raiding:
    The Scandinavian diaspora was not a product of technological, climatic or economic determinism. Nor did it result from ‘overpopulation’ or the lure of weak neighbours. Instead, bands of ‘surplus’ young men (perhaps resulting from selective female infanticide)

    • Thanks: God's Fool
  178. Patricus says:
    @Deep Thought

    The Arabs did not invent algebra. Ancient Greeks had pretty much everything we learned in high school. There was an Arab mathematician named Al Gebron who made some additions to the ancient algebra of the Greeks. Thanks to the Arabs for preserving many Greek works which were later transferred back to Europeans after their centuries of dark ages. Arabic numerals were actually Indian numbers. The Muslim civilization was never particularly innovative. The vast areas they controlled served to spread knowledge from various parts of the world.

    Congratulations to the Chinese for gun powder and paper. Explosives were not unique to the Chinese and these have a long history in many cultures. Same goes for paper.

    The most astonishing innovators were the white Europeans from the 16th through 20th centuries. All other civilizations were left in the dust. It continues this way. Hopefully some impressive developments will come from Chinese or Indians. So far this Chinese/Indian innovation is not evident although they are good immitators. Let’s hope for the best. After our dark ages Europeans were primitive copiers for a long time. Maybe future Africans will send space ships across universes. Don’t hold your breath.

    • Agree: God's Fool
  179. Agbars says:
    @alfred

    None so utterly and viciously as the Japanese. Surely you’ve heard of Nanking

    • Troll: Badger Down
    • Replies: @alfred
  180. GammaRay says:
    @Thim

    In their pride and stupidity (same thing) they have begun claiming parts of Russia as their own. This ritual in China always begins with an Academic. Now they are claiming Vladivostok as their own.

    have they? who is claiming this? the government? random netizens? Unless you have access to some other angle or information that I dont, it appears that your take on this is misleading:

    https://eurasiantimes.com/fact-check-has-china-really-claimed-russian-port-city-of-vladivostok/

    TLDR; the russian embassy posted a message on WEIBO (a chinese social media site) commemorating the 160th anniversary of the founding of vladivostok, a city that was founded on territory formerly belonging to the Qing dynasty, which was annexed by russia following china’s defeat in the 2nd opium wars, in response to this post by the russian embassy on WEIBO many chinese netizens got pissed off and claimed that the city of vladivostok (formerly haishenwai) belonged to china before it was unfairly taken from them by russia.

    so basically it appears that you’ve made a misleading claim and left out tons of important context which actually makes chinese reactions seem more much reasonable. This is on top of the fact that you tried to mislead by insinuating that it was the chinese government that was (proactively) claiming that vladivostok belonged to china instead of relaying what actually happened which was that it was primarily chinese netizens and perhaps low level government employees who were (reactively) claiming that vladivostok used to belong to china in response to a poorly thought out message posted by the russian embassy on a freaking chinese social media website.

    is there something I missed here or did you actually misportray things this badly? Assuming that this is the case, I cant imagine how twisted or misleading your other points are, which im not going to take the time to dismantle although I easily could. It only took me a few minutes of googling to find the real story behind your bullshit lol.

    I find it humorous how you jokers always project and claim that its the chinese that are being unreasonably arrogant and proud. Honestly I dont see this, the only people I see being unreasonably arrogant, proud and blinded by hubris are americans. I cant imagine how people like your’s minds work, it completely baffles me how people can invert reality this badly

  181. @Agbars

    I wouldn’t blame Fred for staying focused. The title is China and Washington. Throwing Japan into the mix requires the spotlight to fall on Jakob Schiff and the usual suspects (Jews, and “israel”, of course). Then there’s the s in the sandwich of the USUKisrael conspiracy: the UK — I don’t know about raping, but they were certainly pillaging, looting, and extorting.
    Perhaps Fred will write another article, about the pirates’ attacks on China (and Asia).

    • Replies: @Agbars
  182. I recall all the glowing descriptions of Jonestown. Such a wonderful place that was built through hard work with a dash of slavery and gun barrels.

  183. @Astuteobservor II

    Hijacking is perhaps too strong a word. That comment, and the rest I’ve written (got a few more regarding the Chinese innovation sub-thread) are directly related to Mr. Reed’s column. The linked-to posts are too. If there are too many big English words for you there, go back to Chinese. Chinese words don’t run more than 2 syllables, in general.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  184. @Art

    The USA has a huge negative that puts it and the world in danger. It has hidden leaders, and a fake front man every four years. This cannot turn out well.

  185. @Ron Unz

    The US has been trying to break up Asia for a long time. If China, Russia, and Europe pull together, the US will be squeezed out like pus from a zit. Terrible being sidelined like that!

    • Replies: @el_comandante_rey
  186. @Achmed E. Newman

    Lol.

    Can’t find a website to include your retarded content?

    If Derbyshire can find a home, so can you.

    I believe in you!!!

    Go forth n spread your shit, you can do it!!!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  187. Jmaie says:
    @macilrae

    Chinese people can be just as racist as the best of ’em

    And Koreans and Japanese…difference between the US and Asia is, Asians don’t understand why racism is considered a bad thing. (Refer to a Japanese as “Asian” if you want to see some fun.)

  188. @Anonymous

    How many of those hot women are going to pay you any mind?

    Obsessed with their own external appearance, most likely.

  189. @martin_2

    So says the lonely hipster who is under the impression Asian women can’t see through his lack of charm and bad breath.

  190. @Badger Down

    Well, listen to little badger boy! All grown up and hating on USA like his ol’ grandpa Fred who visited a country for a whole two weeks and returns eager like a smitten schoolgirl to proclaim a crush on the second string quarterback. My, oh my!

  191. @Astuteobservor II

    Thank you, Sir. Any publicity is good publicity, they say… even from an “Astute Observo[sic]r” like you. What happened to A.O. #1, BTW? Got banned for bad spelling?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  192. Anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron,
    This is a good article by Fred, especially about the social dynamics, but I feel this is somewhat misleading about the economic fundamentals.
    For instance, this is the Chinese and American per capita GDP at PPP and market Exchange rates:
    Your graph isn’t weighted by similar bases, which is why the numbers are misleading..

    Now, you can argue that the artificially high dollar plays a role in the divergent market exchange GDP, but the PPP numbers for America and China are both calculated by the IMF/WorldBank and they do not show China catching up to the US, just a divergence as this graph indicates.

  193. WormPoop says:
    @restless94110

    Fascism….? Have you looked at the US lately? …… oh, how about the UK, even little polite Canada, Israel…..? So called western democracy?

    • Replies: @restless94110
  194. Biff says:
    @Every American

    The Chinese government lifted millions out of poverty? What a fucking idiot you are. You are either a gook (aren’t they all called “Johnny” or “Fred”?), or you are a white-boy that thinks he likes gook pussy because he can’t get white pussy, and so tows the line. The UNITED STATES lifted millions of Chinese out of poverty by exporting American tech and American management skills. Whatever else those fucking gooks needed, they stole or learned in US universities. Remember, per capita, China is still a third-world country. Don’t believe me? Look at the stats….or for the laymen here, I have only two words: BAT SOUP. Where else in the world do “men” eat endangered rhino horn to get a bigger pecker?

    Why did the US facilitate China’s growth? Because the traitors in our government had budget deficits and thought they needed Chinese trinkets exported to the US so that the gooks would buy Treasuries. Greedy American corporations were happy to further this. We all know Home Depot is full of Chinese garbage; screws that don’t screw, tape that doesn’t stick, tools that break, etc. Funny thing is, I don’t remember stuff getting any cheaper when I buy it…even though it is made in China. Christ…these assholes even clean 50 foot diameter spheres of gunk from their sewers, boil it and sell it as “cooking oil” (The Economist).

    Now China, always taking the long view, believes it is strong enough to “right past wrongs”. Big risk. I think most Americans would favor nuking this shit-hole country back to the stone-age where it was thirty years ago, except for maybe a few dozen of their better looking, half-white women. The only segment of our population that would not favor this is Wall Street….where “financial engineering” exports are booming. Perhaps we can avoid war and let these fucking jews silently flush the entire country down the toilet in fifty years while pocketing all profits, like they have done in the US.

    Fuck you and fuck your book too. Asshole.

    Somebody needs their Mama….

  195. @Alden

    The weight gain was most likely during the pregnancy, but I didn’t notice until after. The addiction developed 4 or so months later. She began cutting off contact with me around that time, which I’ve heard is typical behavior among addicts. I’m left to piece it together after the fact because the trailer-park father-in-law at the time was playing enabler.

    My firstborn was born in 2014. You’ve accused me of being an old crone and a nerd before, but I’m not as old as you think!

  196. @Achmed E. Newman

    Damn, you think Mr unz is anal like you?

    If he allows even shit comments like yours, why would he care about my spelling ability?

    Another retard falls for the trap. Here I thought you were at least smarter than the avg retards like agent keke.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  197. @Anon

    Ron is emphasizing the growth. The point he was making is that the American one is stagnant while the Chinese is growing very rapidly.

    You missed the point. And it is a very important point.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  198. Jmaie says:
    @Commento

    p.s. Mongolians/manchu are not hans.

    It’s just Han.

  199. Ron Unz says:
    @Anon

    Your graph isn’t weighted by similar bases, which is why the numbers are misleading….the PPP numbers for America and China are both calculated by the IMF/WorldBank and they do not show China catching up to the US, just a divergence as this graph indicates.

    No, you’re mistaken. The growth in per capita Chinese income, whether nominal or PPP, is higher than the growth in per capita American income. Therefore, assuming this continues, it’s mathematically inevitable that Chinese income will overtake that of America. Just think about it a little or try the calculation on a spreadsheet. It’s just a simple exponential process. Obviously, whether that trend does continue and for how long is another question entirely.

    And both my graph and yours are surely correct. They were just intended to highlight different aspects of the comparison.

    On a more practical level, I haven’t looked at the detailed numbers recently, but I’d guess that the average standard-of-living of urban Chinese families is now roughly comparable to that of the bottom-half (or maybe the bottom-third) of the American population, better in some ways and worse in others. I think that’s a better real-life metric than arguing about PPP or currency conversions.

    Given where things began in 1980, that is an absolutely astonishing development, probably unprecedented in all human history. That’s one reason I would suggest that my graph paints a more realistic picture of the last 40 years.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Colin Wright
  200. Fledd….FLEDD !

    You no go Changpo village in Gansu? no see bodies float in Yellow river ..?
    wassa mahtta have good time allee bodies float float merrily down the solution
    …ching chongity ching …ching chongity ching …..Fred’s story is but an illusion

    • LOL: God's Fool
  201. @GreatSocialist

    OK, now there’s one of the Comm-ent-tards I referred to up top, though I somehow missed this guy. (Godfree Roberts must be in the middle of a deal selling retirement plans in Thailand.)

    Listen guys, it’s one thing to attempt to revise history with some general big lies that could be believed by those who don’t know any history. However, this “Chinamen starved because Americans embargoed them” one is just too stupid to work. It wasn’t a hot war most of the time, but the Cold War was well in progress, and the China was basically an enemy of the US once it went Communist 10 years earlier. Why in the hell would you expect America to ship grain over there?*

    Were Americans upset that the Nazis didn’t ship us ball bearings in 1944? We could have used some V-2 rockets, but there was a complete embargo. WTF, man? What about all that great metallurgy that the Ruskies in the old USSR had. That took some nerve, their not sending us any technology!

    Then, during the Vietnam war, the North Vietnamese wouldn’t send rice down to the South and vice versa. They are all Vietnamese, even, so you’d think they’d help feed each other.

    Look, face it, dozens of millions of Chinese people starved during the “Great Leap Forward” because a guy with absolute power, Mao Zedong, decided he knew better than any stupid “economy”. He forced the melting of farm implements for steel to be made on the farm in small furnaces, by people who would otherwise be farming. There was more stupid shit too. That’s not our fault, buddy. You worship a tyrant – bad stuff can happen.

    .

    * Even though, during a part of the Cultural Revolution 1.0, when thing were dire, Americans shipped corn over to help out. I know someone whose Mom was the beneficiary, and she hated corn ever since. It’s just that the feed corn isn’t so good compared to the sweet corn that we know for eating here. Beggars can’t be choosers, they say…

  202. @Supply and Demand

    I highly doubt you have spent any time thinking on this issue, or even knew it existed before reading my comment. You appear, from your life history, to be predisposed to assuming a Chinese victory. Personally, I take no sides, I am only interested in the consequences for the world of a conflict that could rapidly escalate to nuclear “exchange” between India and China, and possibly Pakistan. Certainly China has been making detailed preparations for this war, but they had to as there was zero infrastructure on the Tibet side of the border, nothing but mountains and footpaths. I have no idea what preparations India has made. There is simply nothing in Western military analysis available to the layman addressing this future war. I do not think that this conflict will be wholly resolved by Chinese and Indian ground forces duking it out at “the line of actual control”, although China appears to banking on this limited scenario. No one has considered that naval warfare might be involved, but since this is the only area that India has an undisputed advantage, I consider it inevitable. China is greatly dependant on a vast flow of resources from the Middle East and Africa transiting the Mallacca Strait. India has an excellent Navy, and would not hesitate to blockade the Indian Ocean. India would simply take out any Chinese merchant vessels exiting the Strait of Hormuz or any African port, or any Chinese vessel attempting to use the Strait of Mallacca. India has destroyed Pakistan’s Navy in the past and the Chinese Navy has little capability to operate large scale Naval Task Forces outside home waters. The consequences for China would be devastating, and it doesn’t appear that the Chinese leadership is even aware the danger exists. They seem to think all will be resolved by ground war on the Tibet/India frontier, and are clearly arrogantly confident of success. You yourself seem confident in this delusion. If China makes its move, and they are very clear they intend to, if they achieve whole or partial success India will lock down the sea lanes and will refuse to unlock them, resulting in permanent war between India and China. Looking at any possible scenario, the conflict metastasizes like a cancer. This could lead to a nuclear “exchange”, as China has proved itself to be a crude, hamfisted, arrogant actor on the world stage and India is being backed into a corner from which it cannot compromise as only the present status quo is acceptable.

  203. Notsofast says:

    Great article, shows why the neocons are so determined to get in a war with china. If they dont flip the board over, checkmate, beaten at their own game. If china can do this in 4 decades and russia can rebuild its looted devestated economy in 2 decades, maybe theres still hope for whats left of ours.

  204. @Ber

    I know it’s not directly on topic, but I wanted to address this Chinese inventions sub-thread.

    Mr. Ber, did you read Simon Winchester’s The Man who Loved China? I read this book, which is a book about that Englishman Joseph Needham who wrote 17(?) volumes on his discoveries of early innovation in China.

    Mr. Needham got interested in China after porking a Chinese graduate student visitor to Cambridge, where he was a scientist. His wife apparently didn’t mind the open marriage and this mistress, kinda like the Hildabeast and Bill Clinton’s situation… Anyway, this got Mr. Needham, already a Communist of sorts in England, headed to the Middle Kingdom to do his research, some of it in harrowing circumstances. It was 1937 when he first went, but he stayed there (with breaks) right on into the Chairman Mao era, even meeting the man.

    The Winchester book is well worth reading. I remember very well when I came across a table in his book that contained information on all the thousands of inventions/innovations that Mr. Needham had written about in his many volumes – he’d kept at it right on till his death.

    This is what struck me, especially after seeing “airplane” in the table: Ideas might have been thought of, but why did they not get anywhere, compared to the amazing technological innovations of the last 500 years in the West? Mr. Winchester notes that this was big question in Mr. Needham’s mind that the great scientist never figured out.

    I guess it doesn’t take a great scientist, as the answer is simple. It’s the running of the economy, stupid! Because Mr. Needham was a great fan of Communism, he didn’t see this very obvious answer. China has always had a great central authority and no history whatsoever of property rights, due process, etc. How was an inventor to make any money off a great idea, if it could be appropriated or outright stolen by a higher up in society? Yes, it’s about the money to a great degree, because the motivation to put in the effort to really round out an idea and make it actually work must be there. Why work that hard for nothing.

    See, these alleged inventions mostly came to nothing because of a long-running political system that eliminated the incentive to engineer and market these many Chinese ideas that Mr. Needham dug up (sometimes literally dug up).

    I’m gonna continue in another reply comment.

    • Agree: alfred
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  205. Anon99 says:
    @Mary Marianne

    Exactly. They always say “much democracy is messy but I love it” and China must adopt it (as if they know what China wants or needs). These are also the same people who complain “the US is circling the drain, the 50’s were perfect when the POCs knew their place, our institutions are dying yada yada”. They should fully realize their beloved system is what brought them to this place right now.

  206. Anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron,
    Very astute point. I guess one counterargument is that no rich country in the world, aside from tiny Bermuda and Singapore, continued to have that kind of large per-capita exponential growth continue for long periods of time. Do you think China’s growth is likely to continue at that level? It’s per capita growth is now 2x that of America’s, but is dropping pretty rapidly over the last few years. Would be interesting if so, wonder what is the policy there.

    One reason that I do not like PPP numbers is because they tend to overexaggerate the wealth of poorer states. For instance, Botswana’s per capita GDP is 20k under PPP and India’s is 10k. Now obviously, , those PPP numbers obviously are exaggerated. China’s in comparison is 18k for PPP per capita. Maybe those numbers are true, but I prefer to look at market-exchange rates.

    Anyways, America’s main problem is that it generates lots of wealth, but almost none of that reaches the working class, so the dynamism that keeps this economy strong isn’t going to last long. Student Debts, which are non dischargeable, make young Americans pay hundreds of thousands over a decade! Even if they are generating lots of money, they are not keeping it unfortunately.

  207. ‘…Americans have compelled the Chinese to buy opium by force of arms…’

    ? First, it’s news to me that the United States took part in the Opium Wars. Second, no Chinese was ever forced to buy opium; the government was forced to permit its sale. Marijuana is now legal in Oregon; so far, I haven’t been forced to buy any.

    Falsehoods and exaggeration do not strengthen an argument.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  208. @restless94110

    ‘…Calling China an authoritarian oligarchy is kind of code for fascism, but hey Fred, knock yourself right out.’

    Without wishing to defend China, I don’t see how it’s particularly ‘Fascist.’

    ‘Fascist’ is not just a synonym for ‘bad.’ The word has a specific meaning — and that meaning doesn’t seem particularly descriptive of China.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  209. @Ber

    Let’s talk about the Wright Brothers. Though they weren’t educated as mechanical engineers, Orville and Wilbur basically made themselves into engineers* in order to solve the problem of controllable manned flight. When their planes were not working right down in Kitty Hawk in 1901 or so, they went back to Dayton, Ohio, built the first wind tunnel (another innovation, of course) and went from there.

    It was an amazing story, and along with the great ideas came a bunch of hard work. I ask the commenters on this subject, did those Chinese inventors you all are so proud of actually make a working this or that? The airplane example was the most egregious. Sure, Mr. Needham may have read some text that described a wing that would fly well, but was it calculated to work or experimented with? I don’t think so.

    There may have been dozens of other ideas about airplanes that wouldn’t have worked. It’s easy to throw out ideas, but it takes hard engineering work to get things to actually work, and even then, sometimes they just never do. Then another guy later figures out what you were missing, or that, yeah, it can’t possibly work. An old drawing and some text about an idea for an airplane is not an invention, as smart as the originator may have been.

    That goes for all the other stuff (that never came) out of China over the centuries. Well, they’ve changed the economic aspect of their political system for the better over the last almost 50 years, since Deng took over, as Mr. Reed noted. That’s why they are going somewhere now. That is, unless the other aspects of their political system bring the place down again.

    .

    * One could argue that they were light on theory, not doing computational fluid dynamics (not around then of course), so it was only the experimental side of engineering that they learned.

  210. @Deep Thought

    Those who have the power to conquer own the land, that’s the way the world works, always has and always will.
    Winning via military might is not “theft”, its conquest. Conquest costs blood and treasure, theft does not.
    Try another straw man arguement ya cool bastard!

  211. @Ron Unz

    ‘Given where things began in 1980, that is an absolutely astonishing development, probably unprecedented in all human history.’

    It’s astonishing; but it’s arguable if it’s unprecedented.

    Consider Germany in 1945 and in 1985; or Japan over the same span. Korea: 1950 and 1990.

    China in 1980 was artificially depressed by decades of Communist nonsense; as with Germany and Japan, it started from an artificial low and swiftly rocketed to a new high as it realized its potential.

    Perhaps what’s most impressive is the sheer scale of the change. After all, we are talking about a revolution in the lives of a billion and a half people; a fifth of humanity.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  212. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    The English language lacks a future tense

    That’s a silly thing to say.

    Whoever told you that must have been interrupted part-way through (alternatively, you stopped listening part-way through).

    What they were trying to say before they were interrupted/you stopped listening:

    English has no future tense where tense is achieved through verb inflection.

    English has 4 future tenses (simple, continuous, perfect and perfect continuous) – all of which are achieved by compounding with future-oriented auxiliary verbs: I shall go, I am going to go etc.

    Conditional and past tenses happen same way. I would go; I would have gone.

    Only the simple past is achieved through verb inflection (I went) – and the simple past is a source of stupidity in absolutely key verbs used in constructions… go, have, be , do, will, can: go/goes → went; has/have → had; am/is → was; do/does → did; will → would; can → could. (‘will’ in this context isn’t really being a verb, I know).

    This “modularity” for tense-construction is incredibly sensible and is one of the things that makes English relatively easy to learn.

    If the simple present and simple past were regularised (and some orthographic fixes were adopted) English would become a language where sentences would be constructed by simple algorithm.

    English has done really well considering it’s got no ‘dev team’: it’s still really only in beta, but there are only 2 classes of bugs, and the fixes are all super-obvious.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  213. @foolisholdman

    Damn! Those are REALLY impressive accomplishments compared to all the “high tech,” western accomplishments. You know like the device and all of the various science, and engineering that white western men put into it to create it so you can make your ridiculous, stupid, and pathetic comment! Yes, your vaunted Chinese manufactured the device, but alas no tech, nothing to manufacture, except toilets and bathtubs!

  214. Rahan says:
    @mocissepvis

    So exactly what defines an “illegal cult?” One that commits acts of violence and is therefore really a criminal organization, or one that espouses otherwise peaceful beliefs that merely run counter to the dominant ethno-nationalist dogma or watered down Marxism espoused by the CPC? Inquiring minds, many of them, would like to know.

    The question–in terms of word choice and overall atmosphere–sounds suspiciously like drama scavenging that might fuel up to five or six Facebook posts about Putin’s oppression of Scientology, and also appears to imply that the poster (me) is some sort of rabid defender of Beijing’s and Moscow’s religious policies, and not simply a neutral observer with little patience for generic propaganda bullshit, especially when the bullshit cannot survive a 5 minute Internet search, should an honest desire for info be present.

    However, dedicated to all inquiring minds: rule of thumb in any Eurasian authoritarian state of the 21st century is this. Be a sect old enough to be counted as “traditional”, and be also ready to accept that the state gets to regulate your activity, from registration onwards, and you’re good to go. Be either a new-fangled sect that hasn’t yet stood the test of time and tends to attract unstable psychos, or a sect which declares itself to be more important than the laws of the land and does not render to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and be prepared to get the hose. Also, sometimes a sect is also suspected of being a tool of the US state department, in which case it is seen as a hostile NGO masquerading as a church.

    Summary: traditional Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Judaism, and various Buddhist and Islam strands, all registered with the state and not promoting the overthrow or dismantling thereof, are tolerated in Eurasian satrapies.

    “Underground churches” and “underground pastors” are not tolerated.

    A meditation center that teaches people to relax and unwind is welcome. A meditation center that tells people that the state has no authority over them and they must hasten the arrival of Krishna by overthrowing the president, or by infiltrating state institutions, gets the local KGB to start polishing their billy clubs.

    When Scientology tried to infiltrate US state institutions, the US reacted like the US. When Falun Gong tried to infiltrate China’s state institutions, China reacted like China. Turkey reacted like Turkey against Gulenists trying to infiltrate institutions. Lesson: if you try to infiltrate Belgian institutions, be prepared for a Belgium-tier backlash (sternly worded letter, fines, or possibly total cucking and surrender); if you try to infiltrate Vietnamese institutions, be prepared for a Vietnam-tier backlash (reeducation camp, felling bamboo, taking teeth home in a hat).

    These, in a nutshell, are the rules of how religion works in cosmopolitan societies outside Western Democracies. They are not Western Democracies, they follow their own rules. However, making the choice be
    a) either you’re exactly like us, or
    b) you’re literally Adolf Hitler
    is cognitive degeneracy on the level of the lowest antifa/BLM GloboHomo stooge, so let’s all try to not be like that.

    Further reading:
    A typical Russian article on the evils of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Scientology, online translate is enough for the gist https://fb.ru/article/183439/spisok-sekt-v-rossii-zapreschennyie-sektyi-v-rossii

    Russia already has the most Orthodox Christians in the world. Within a decade China will have the most Protestants in the world. Claiming that both countries “oppress Christians” is brain damage. Trying to untangle how both treat what they classify as “illegal sects” is smarter. Deciding that both countries must have religious laws identical to those of the US or the UK is… pretty close to the sin of pride..?

    Gluttony, wrath, sloth, lust, and greed have already overwhelmed America. Maybe not embracing pride for the drama orgasms would be a good start to slowly start back along the wrong path, reach the fateful fork in the road from 50 years ago, and this time take the right path.

    • Agree: Maowasayali
    • Thanks: showmethereal
  215. Vidi says:
    @VinnyVette

    You said:

    China never had a “technological edge” to lose. What the hell are you talking about!

    Here is what Francis Bacon, one of the first scientists, wrote in 1620 (Novum Organum):

    Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changd the whole face and state of things throughout the world; the first in literature, the second in warfare, the third in navigation; whence have followed innumerable changes, in so much that no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than these mechanical discoveries.

    Printing, gunpowder, and the compass were all from China, though Bacon did not mention it. Perhaps he didn’t know. In his opinion, they “have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world”.

    In addition, when Marco Polo visited the Middle Kingdom, he was thoroughly astounded by the many marvelous advancements there.

    Finally, see Joseph Needham’s book, “Science and Civilisation in China”. Warning: it is several thousand pages long, in many volumes.

    I would say China had an enormous technological edge on the West!

    • Thanks: Maowasayali
  216. GammaRay says:

    why is it that the people who are against china always seem to be so petty and nasty? Its always apparent that they have an emotional chip on their shoulder. This is why they’re obsessed with the idea that the US/the west/whites etc must be BETTER than the chinese in some significant way, they’re constitutionally incapable of deriving a sense of self-worth from within. The only way that they can shore up their own self-esteem and distract themselves from the racially and culturally imploding west is to hate on china. That’s literally what it comes down to.

    the atomic black pill is this though, no matter what happens to china the west is still doomed. lets assume everything worked out peachy keen for the west and china eventually falls and the CCP is permanently vanquished. then what? well, the US would still be terminally non-white, it would still be in state of metastatic cultural decay, white women would still be hooking up with countless chads and tyrones, maybe settling down with an average white guy only in their 30s and after racking up a 100+ body count, and so on so forth. You get the picture, regardless of what happens to china, this is the future of the US. There are maladaptive cultural trends that are baked deeply into american society, these cancerous trends will continue to exist regardless of what happens with china.

    Actually it gets even worse. Imagine that the US does defeat china and once again becomes the undisputed economic, cultural and military champion of the world, then what? Well, the renewed prosperity and optimism in the US would allow even greater decadence and indifference to set in. All the trends that I mentioned in the second paragraph would intensify even more due to the sudden influx of easy money, abundant opportunities and good times. Who cares about correcting deep structural problems in american culture when there’s money to be made and new markets to be exploited in the newly liberated china? white nationalism, anti-globalization or any notion of trying to save the historic character of the american nation would take a backseat to the capitalistic frenzy and national euphoria that would sweep the nation for the next few decades while the new geo-political global order stabilized.

    Dont forget about the fact that the rank and file of the white nationalist movement (white incels) would desert the movement in droves in order to snatch up newly liberated chinese 10/10 HBs, along with the fact that the US and the west would be hit with a deluge of millions of desperate chinese refugees as well. A few decades after all this plays out and the dust settles, there is no scenario in which the US or the west would come out ahead in a racial or cultural sense. It could only be worse since such a scenario would delay any possible cultural correction or reckoning with leftism by decades in addition to the demographic damage that I mentioned above, as well as the fact that such a massive victory would powerfully reaffirm the legitimacy of the current political order in the west (the exact political order that is antagonistic to white nationalism). It would be a pyrrhic victory in the most literal sense imaginable. Anyways, everything I said is true but I dont expect white nationalists to be able to get it. These guys are incapable of thinking ahead in any meaningful way so they will always sabotage themselves lol, they’re truly their own worst enemies

  217. Fred is more than likely impressed with China’s, clean, clinical, infrastructure because he’s become so accustomed to driving around on all those dusty, dirt roads in his 3rd world home country of Mexico!
    Yes Fred, the great cities of China have better infrastructure than the U.S. curently. However, what’s the condition of the vast rural expanses of China? So overall better infrastructure? No, not so much. How about air and water quality Fred?
    Yeah, alot worse in China with substandard environmental protection laws if any, you know just one of the many reasons the former U.S. manufacturing base has been moved to China.
    It is not the fault of Joe U.S. citizen who is taxed to death in hopes of at least getting quality infrastructure out of the deal, that the condition of our roads, bridges, and cities are in the state of disrepair they are in.
    The fault lies with our elected officials, and the buracracies. And it does not matter who we vote for, democrat, Republican or Trump, who ran on his MAGA “everything will be wonderful” infrastructure deal.
    Germany has better infrastructure than the U.S. So do alot of other countries. I wouldn’t necessarily want to live in them. And certainly not under a totalitarian communist dictatorship.
    We fought the cold war against the U.S.S.R. just to hand the keys over to China? Yeah Fred, we know the fecklessness of our politicians and the one percent who owns them, we need no reminders!

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  218. homahr says:
    @Bombercommand

    I have been watching to some of Pravin Sawhney’s videos on this particular subject and following his twitter account. He is a former Indian Army captain and now journalist. He is basically saying the opposite of what you are saying with regards to China:

    China actually has infrastructure on their side of the border in TAR. They have 200,000 troops there with a complete military habitat. It is India which is severely lacking in infrastructure. This military habitat was built starting in 2017.
    China took over 1000 sq km of Indian territory without firing a shot. They will not give it back and India cannot take it back. China has already starting laying fiber-optic lines there.
    Indian troops are not trained for fighting at those heights and their weapons training are lacking. Moreover, India barely has an indigenous defense industry and has to import most, if not all of its ammunition.
    India is using double humped camels to patrol the border. China uses drones to feed its troops on the front lines.
    India believes in the success of ground war. China does not, they will not fight India in a ground war. Why would they if they can take 1000 sq km without a fight?
    It is no longer the LAC, it is now called ‘border areas’, a weasely Chinese term, to which the Indians were forced to accept.

    You may also follow Vipin Narang on twitter and read his article on the subject. He is geopolitical analyst who teaches at MIT who is of Indian origin.

    Thus far, I have found two analysts, mentioned above, both of Indian origin, (except the MIT one is more American), who give the complete advantage to China in this current border stand-0ff.

    https://twitter.com/PravinSawhneyhttps://thewire.in/author/pravin-sawhney
    https://twitter.com/NarangVipinhttps://warontherocks.com/2020/07/indias-pangong-pickle-new-delhis-options-after-its-clash-with-china/
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCW2BKQiTJRp7GqdVFIn4ZaQ — All videos regarding Ladakh are excellent analysis

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  219. @restless94110

    [Gun powder is so 12th century, dude.]
    .
    Computers are so 20th century. It is now the 21st Century and it is all about 5G:
    ,
    “If we continue to lose it, we’re five years away, I think, 10 years at the most, of hitting an inflection point from which we’ll never be able to recover.”
    .
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-bannon-idUSKCN1AX0DE
    .
    Bannon cares though.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @restless94110
  220. @Marcali

    [Not to forget that China exhibits all the hallmarks of a Fascist state,]
    .
    Amelika “exhibits all the hallmarks of a IMPERIALIST state”.

  221. Ron Unz says:
    @Colin Wright

    ‘Given where things began in 1980, that is an absolutely astonishing development, probably unprecedented in all human history.’

    It’s astonishing; but it’s arguable if it’s unprecedented.

    Consider Germany in 1945 and in 1985; or Japan over the same span. Korea: 1950 and 1990.

    No, I don’t think Germany or Japan were remotely close, even despite the devastation of the war. And when I wrote my 2012 article, I checked South Korea and several other possibilities, and they also seemed to be significantly behind. Other historical examples fell far short:

    During the three decades to 2010, China achieved perhaps the most rapid sustained rate of economic development in the history of the human species, with its real economy growing almost 40-fold between 1978 and 2010. In 1978, America’s economy was 15 times larger, but according to most international estimates, China is now set to surpass America’s total economic output within just another few years.

    * * *

    China’s economic progress is especially impressive when matched against historical parallels. Between 1870 and 1900, America enjoyed unprecedented industrial expansion, such that even Karl Marx and his followers began to doubt that a Communist revolution would be necessary or even possible in a country whose people were achieving such widely shared prosperity through capitalistic expansion. During those 30 years America’s real per capita income grew by 100 percent. But over the last 30 years, real per capita income in China has grown by more than 1,300 percent.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  222. @Bombercommand

    [China’s official position is they claim all territories once held by The Celestial Empire, but later lost….]
    .
    Khasmir, Khalistan, Seven Sisters, the Naxalites… There were once territories of the British empire.
    .
    Something is happening now along the Sino-Indian border like before:
    .
    The egging:
    .
    https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/ … pla-626816
    .
    Just like it was in 1962:
    .
    ‘Swamy’s views about the 1962 war, a sensitive issue for Indians, who hold China responsible for the war, may seem sacrilegious but are known to be shared by many in the party – secretly. “The border clash was avoidable but [the then prime minister Jawaharlal] Nehru had received encouragement from the US to take advantage of China’s misery from the drought and famine,” said Swamy.’
    .
    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolit … ing-guided
    .
    .
    Modi lie or Modi fact:
    .
    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne … Y8bBI.html
    .
    .
    Hint: Some in the Indian military take orders NOT from New Delhi, but from Washington!

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Bombercommand
  223. Malla says:
    @Anon

    Thanks, you are very right, this is something I am realising with time. But by the time people realize, a lot of damage (to society and this world) would have taken place. Maybe I can speed the process just a little bit. Give them a glimpse of the “logical truth” as most of us live in a Matrix of propaganda. When I was younger (early 20s) , I was more naive, a “a fighter for truth’, but with time I have realised what you are saying. Even intelligent people would stick to their illogical viewpoints. Thus at the end of the day, people need to realise things themselves. You seem like a wise man who has lived life quite a bit.

  224. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    Computers are so 20th century. It is now the 21st Century and it is all about 5G:

    LOL. You know what Deep Thought, that is a good comeback.

  225. @Ron Unz

    ‘No, I don’t think Germany or Japan were remotely close, even despite the devastation of the war. ‘

    In the case of Germany at least, I think you underestimate the destruction and poverty as of 1945.

    People were routinely starving to death — and literally living in ruins. To illustrate the condition of things, when the Italian New Wave film Germany in the Year Zero was made, there was a problem: after some months doing the studio shots in the relative abundance of post-war Italy, the actors had gotten noticeably fatter. In several respects, China in 1980 would have been better off than Germany in 1945, not worse off.

    Obviously, human capital is worth quite a bit — hence Germany’s rapid recovery. However, the same elements could be ascribed to China’s situation: whatever the flaws of Communism, it does tend to provide everyone with a basic education, so in 1980 there was at least universal literacy — and certainly no feudal structures to get in the way!

    I don’t deny the scale or drama of China’s growth. I merely quibble with the notion that such a leap is ‘unprecedented.’ China is, after, all traditionally and typically a major center of civilization (something many would be wise to accept). 1980-now can be seen as simply a restoration of the status quo under modern conditions.

    Just as — say — Germany’s material leap from 1945 to 1985 was latent in her nature, couldn’t the same ultimately be said of China? She wasn’t venturing into the sunlight for the first time; she was returning to it.

    She’d just been gone awhile.

    • Agree: gavishti
  226. Vidi says:
    @Patricus

    The most astonishing innovators were the white Europeans from the 16th through 20th centuries.

    Depends on what you mean by “astonishing”. According to Ohio State University (link), the greatest invention in the last 1000 years was the printing press. The author credited the invention to Johannes Gutenberg in 1450, but we now have irrefutable evidence in the British Library (link) that China was printing books no later than 868 AD, centuries before Gutenberg was born. But perhaps we should be grateful for the author’s mistake, because the 868 AD date would not have made the 1000-year cutoff.

    Explosives were not unique to the Chinese and these have a long history in many cultures.

    That’s like saying shouting was just as good as radio transmission. China’s gunpowder was a huge advance.

    Same goes for paper.

    Nothing else was remotely as cheap as paper. The Europeans certainly had papyrus, and they could have used clay tablets too if they had wanted to do so, but they chose instead to scrape sheepskin to make writing material. Why? Perhaps because sheepskin — even when the labor needed to scrape it was included — was cheaper than payrus. Was it just luck that the introduction of paper to the West coincided with the huge profusion of books there? (Even before the printing press arrived in the West.)

  227. @unit472

    What business is it of yours how the Chinese run their affairs? The fact is that the US, not China, is the world’s bully. Americans continue to practice their stupid “democracy” cult even though it has resulted in Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, BLM, and a bloated military-industrial complex that has bankrupted the country for the sake of peacefully defending—what else?—”democracy” in such very American places as Vietnam and Iraq.

  228. @GammaRay

    What you wrote is pretty much all true except that White nationalists are not obsessed with destroying China. Those would be the neocons, whom White nationalists despise even more than standard liberals. If anything, we sympathize with China, an ethnostate and an anti-liberal society. Healthy nationalism is not about hating others; it’s about taking your own in a positive direction.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  229. Malla says:
    @Deep Thought

    Hint: Some in the Indian military take orders NOT from New Delhi, but from Washington!

    This is ridiculous, I have proven conclusively that the USA had nothing to do with the 1962 war.

    China is trying to push India as lackey of the West to keep up this image to themselves and to the World that China is the “revolutionary State” fighting Western “Imperialism’. How can a poor brown country be the enemy of revolutionary State China? Does not make sense. It must be the evul White Western imperialists, India is still a sepoy. Only a idiot would believe that. That is the idiotic logic. How can a militarily weaker India act so macho (and suicidal) in 1962 against China, they must have the support of powerful West. This is just fooling yourself and the world. You know why? Because the Indian deep state is psychopath and chest thumpers.

    India is pushing the story that China is an Imperialist power like the old British and India is the revolutionary “son of the soil’ types fighting against “arrogant posh Yellow” just like it once fought against “arrogant posh White”. Similarly with Nepal, instead of accepting that the Nepali people are angry with Indian Govt bullying (Indian people believe we are the most kindest people on earth who never interfere in anybody’s business while the Whole World wants to keep Great Indians down, LOL), the Indian State pushes the idea that Nepal is a lackey of China and “evul sneaky backstabbing” China is using “innocent and foolish” Nepal to gouge India, the “natural big brother of Nepal”. “How can any country hate benevolent India”, says the average Indian on the Street, “let alone our Nepali brothers? It is obviously the work of those sneaky, backstabbing Chinese CCP Imperialists” or “How dare Nepal, a tiny country have the courage to look eye to eye with mighty India. Only if they have the support of the Chinese would they have the courage to eye us this way”.

    Both Indians and Chinese are fooling themselves and trying to look the morally superior “revolutionary sons of the soils” fighting some Imperialists. Basically stupidity is very common.

    About Swamy’s claim of Nehru. Firstly I have debunked this 1962 West encouraging India . Menon who was a socialist who hated the West and was a thorn in USA-India relations was himself the defense minster during the 1962 war. with China Only a buffoon would think that Menon who hated the West from his guts would take orders from Washington.

    Secondly Subramanyam Swamy himself is a CIA agent (was prof at Yale!!!, Ex-PM vajpayee called him a CIA agent in the open) and a liar, slime-ball and a sworn enemy of the Nehru Gandhi family (who have always been pro-Soviet and pro-Russia). The Hindu fundamentalist RSS hates hates hates Nehru. Taking anything from this slimeball on Nehru is stupidity.

    Hint: Some in the Indian military take orders NOT from New Delhi, but from Washington!

    Ridiculous. How do you explain India’s friendship with Russia?

    Khasmir, Khalistan, Seven Sisters, the Naxalites… There were once territories of the British empire

    You are right, India’s claim on them is only because of the British Empire . India wants all the borders of the British Empire, while it cries and bleats about “colonialism’. Indian deep-state textbooks brainwash Indians with genocidal hatred against the “evul British’ But the Indian state shamelessly acts like a big bully itself.

  230. alfred says:
    @Agbars

    Surely you’ve heard of Nanking

    Surely you’ve heard of Opium. It almost destroyed the entire society. Much worse than anything the Japanese did.

    • Replies: @Agbars
  231. [They weren’t “native” either, they migrated across the then-existing land bridge between Russia and Alaska.

    If we’re gonna play this game, this is all dinosaur land, conquered by an Imperialist no-doubt Huwhite hot asteroid.]
    .
    Tell that to the “Free- Tibeters” and others.
    .
    By the way, the whites are certainly NOT natives of North America, not even native of Europe by your reasoning because they all came from Africa!!!

  232. @VinnyVette

    [We fought the cold war against the U.S.S.R. just to hand the keys over to China? Yeah Fred, we know the fecklessness of our politicians and the one percent who owns them, we need no reminders!]
    .
    {5 April, 1997
    .
    The Asia Times
    .
    The Asian Wall Street Journal
    .

    Sirs,
    .
    The articles published in the Asia Times titled “Russia must realize the ‘Asian alternative’ does not exist” (26/03/97) and in the Asian Wall Street Journal titled “China’s Creeping Assertiveness” (27/03/97) show Gerald Segal, at least, now realizes that the white West has committed the supreme folly of having strangled Russia which is “primarily a European country by culture and inclination” and is, therefore, one of their own, only to have facilitated the rise of China, which is of a totally different race and has scores yet to equalize with the Western imperialists.

    [MORE]

    .
    The contrasts between China and Russia are many– not just those mentioned by Segal. While the former Russian Empire kowtowed to the West and thereby ensured its downfall, China did exactly the opposite and prospered as a result.
    .
    China’s “good fortune” is therefore not being “in the booming East Asia”– it is the booming China that makes “the booming East Asia” in the first place– but because its leaders foster a healthy contempt for the West.
    .
    This has obvious consequences: Russia wins despise from all over the world while China wins respect from much of the developing world and instills fear in its former oppressors, as Segal himself amply exemplifies.
    .
    For all these reasons, China has every right to feel that “history is on its side” and looks forward to the day when it is powerful enough to right all the wrongs done by the white West to the Non-white world.
    .
    Segal and his ilk are now trying in vain to halt this “powerful historical force” by spurting out anti-Chinese diatribes. They “must realize” that the West is no longer “in the driving seat” of history.
    .
    The defunct process of “constrainment”, which really is containment by another name, advocated by Segal may have proved successful against the former Soviet Union– only after China gave its support. But when such policies were tried on the “weak” China by way of Korea and Vietnam, the foremost Western hegemon got bloody nose and broken teeth in return.
    .
    What Segal is advocating is therefore “wrong and dangerous”– for the West, that is. China is a lot stronger today.
    .
    The futility of Segal’s effort can be seen by recalling Dr Mahathir remark that China has never colonized or oppressed the countries in the region. If followed, Segal’s advice will have the effect of diverting the attention of these countries to a non-existent threat so that their past colonial oppressors could creep up on them from behind.
    .
    Those with stiff backbones understand only too well how the genuine Americans have become the “Indians” and the genuine Australians been reduced to mere “Aborigines”.
    .
    Didn’t Segal say some “naive” people signed, in 1995, a “defense pact with Australia” in order to “look after their own security”? The “Aborigines” and the “Indians” had also “put their faith” in Anglo-Saxon promises and reasonableness. The results are there for all to see. This “demonstrates a single clear pattern and lesson for East Asia”. “Prospective victims” beware.
    .
    The white West knows that the actions of fools “suit its purposes” very well. China might not want to “bail out” such morons as it had done for the Vietnamese.
    .
    That 44% of Japanese “identifying China as a threat” is not at all surprising– So did “Unit 731”. That 44% no doubt includes a lot of its admirers, its former members and their descendants. It merely proves that the Japanese have learnt from their Western mentors the art of blaming their victims for the crimes they had committed against them.
    .
    Yet, all these do not discourage Segal from making up such fiction as “China never gives up territory”, when he knows full well that the pre-revolution China ceded huge tracts of land to the imperialist Russia– the land which Lenin had promised to return to China but never did.
    .
    Post-revolution China also relinquished Outer Mongolia, which has become the now independent country of Mongolia. Neighbouring countries, which were weaker than China but were willing to negotiate on territorial issues, more often got more territory from China than they ceded.
    .
    Therefore, those Russians who can do arithmetic need not worry. The “strategic portions” of land are merely the small price they should pay for establishing a Sino-Russian “strategic partnership”. “Make no mistake”, “NATO expansion” will ensure its success. Only “daydreaming” Seagulls [sic] think otherwise.
    .

    Sincerely,
    .

    *So, Indonesia signed a defense pact with Australia in order to “look after their own security”! Heheheeeeeeee. As it turns out, the one who is busy at dismembering Indonesia today is not China. This is an example of Segal’s “conventional wisdom” defied (09/10/99).

    This is a prediction that “defied conventional wisdom”. Guess who made it? Not dear old Gerald! (11/11/99)
    .

    **Censored by “The Free Press”, Refused publication**}

  233. Malla says:
    @Ponder

    Most of Africa once was Pygmy and Khoi San only. Bantus expanded into traditional Pygmy and Khoi San territory during the great Bantu migration.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Ponder
    , @Ponder
  234. @Bombercommand

    Watch this well made video by a Chinese YouTube channel. This is the Chinese side of the story. I watched it with English subs.

    And this is my opinion, in a total war scenario, India will get destroyed. You really should read up on the Chinese navy build up in the last few years.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
    , @Bombercommand
  235. @Sick of Orcs

    Oké. Good thing you’re not trying to justify Genocide by blaming the victim’s alleged pre history.

    Propaganda IS the mental equivalent of Nuclear weapons

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  236. @Colin Wright

    U.S. aggression in the second opium war:

    On October 8, 1856, the US consul in Guangzhou (then Canton) requested US marines to guard American interests. On October 22, the USS Portsmouth landed 83 marines and sailors. Another 67 sailors and marines were landed on the 27th, and marines shot at, but missed, Chinese soldiers on November 3.

    On November 14, there were three US Navy ships in Guangzhou harbor, and more marines landed.

    On November 15, Commodore James Armstrong, order an attack on the four Pearl River forts. The aliens seized one fort on November 20, took two more on November 21, and found the last one abandoned on November 22.

    Eleven US marines and sailors died and 38 were wounded, out of the 700 that invaded China and went ashore. The illegal aliens killed or wounded 700 Chinese troops that opposed their landing.

    The destruction of the Pearl River forts left Guangzhou defenseless when a British task force arrived to occupy the city the next year.

    Sources:

    Leo Daugherty’s The Marine Corps and the State Department: Enduring Partners in United States Foreign Policy, 1798–2007.

    George B. Clark’s Treading Softly: U.S. Marines in China, 1819 – 1949.

    International Law Studies, No. 77: Lillich on the Forcible Protection of Nationals Abroad. Thomas C. Wingfield, and James E. Meyen, editors.

    Harry Allanson Ellsworth’s One Hundred Eighty Landings of United States Marines, 1800-1934

    On June 25 1859, the U.S. Navy’s Commodore Josiah Tatnall, commanding USS Powhatan, violated neutrality by helping Britain and France against China, and a month later, U.S. troops landed for a few more days to protect “American” merchants in Shanghai during rioting.

    Yes, 160 years ago the US was doing the same evil shit as now: invading Asian countries and killing people.

    • Thanks: Maowasayali
    • Replies: @Maowasayali
  237. @GammaRay

    What a boomer tier comment.

    The attacks on China could only be from those awful white racists: they’re mad dogs who want to attack anyone in the world who looks funny.

    It wouldn’t instead be the civnats, liberals, cuck boomers, and American exceptionalists would it? All the other creatures of the american-jewish oligarchy who feel threatened by China’s existence as the antithesis of their corrupt weltanshauung.

    As you yourself put it, why would White Nationalists support in any way the victory of a system that wants their destruction, against the world’s preeminent ethnostate, all out of some misguided sense of patriotism or provincial pride? (and WNs are well aware of all these things).

    If a ‘WN’ supports the establishment in any fight against China he’s not what he claims to be, which should be pretty obvious.

    Perhaps you stop misrepresenting things as well – there’s too much of that going around already.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  238. @Kratoklastes

    Isn’t there another future tense- the past tense in the future : I shall have done that?

    Pluperfect-ish?

  239. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    That Map you have shown, do you know the timeline? Find the timeline and get back to me.

    Next, those san and pygmy, how many were there?

    Next, map out the original habitation of the Nilotes and the Cushites and then tell me about Bantu. If you can’t, let me then enlighten you.

  240. @Deep Thought

    Thanks for making my point over and over again.

    5G…..hmmm, let’s see…..where did the innovation of 5G come from…..hmmm…let’s see…..oh.

    From the West.

    China is improving that. They didn’t innovate that.

    So thanks for agreeing with me over and over again, even is you somehow think you are not.

    My point has always been that innovation doesn’t come from Asia. It hasn’t for hundreds of years. If living in a conformist world that is clean is what suits you, go for it, baby.

    I prefer nonconformity eccentricity mess and innovation though.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  241. anon4real says:
    @anon

    There’s no such a thing as a foreigner who can make a lot of money in China. What are you smoking?

    The system is not designed that way. Occasionally, there are foreigners who invest in China or offer consulting services or set up branches or divisions of a bigger corporation whose headquarters is based elsewhere, but those people were rich before coming to China, and the Chinese are just making use of them (Elon Musk would be the classic example).

    But China is not a place where you go to make money. There is no such thing as a business deal or business venture in China that is not structured in such a way as to benefit the Chinese party. I’m not saying that’s bad, but Chinese are super-savvy about business opportunities and will never allow a foreigner to make money doing something that they can do. They are also very proud (which is a good thing) and won’t tolerate some foreigner giving them orders.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
    , @d dan
  242. @WormPoop

    Fascism….? Have you looked at the US lately? …… oh, how about the UK, even little polite Canada, Israel…..? So called western democracy?

    Yeah, I have. And if you think the US today is in any way fascist, you don’t know what fascism is.

    • Disagree: Biff
  243. @Colin Wright

    Fred called China an authoritarian oligarchy. I correctly asserted that an authoritarian oligarchy is a type of fascism.

    You say “that word has a specific meaning,” but then don’t say what you think that specific meaning is.

    I agree it has a specific meaning or rather meanings. Authoritarian oligarchy is one of the meanings of fascism.

    Fred is trying to put lipstick on a pig. But it’s still a pig.

    • Agree: VinnyVette
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  244. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    Even your own picture reveals the lie about Bantu. It highlights 2,000 years ago when the major migrations started in 2,000 BC.

    The image finally reveals another lie, that the lack of no written records or buildings means genocide but that is in itself a lie for even if the earlier inhabitants had been exterminated, did the Bantu go looking everywhere for all written artwork and artifacts and destroy them all? Or could the answer be as simple as Africa back then was mostly uninhabited. The Bantu have co-existed peacefully with all other Nilotes and Cushites. I can give you another example —– the Kamba did not come from west Africa but always dwelt in East Africa and originally from mt Kilimanjaro while the Kikuyu came from present day Cameroon and to this day, this two tribes coexist side by side to point of even referring to each other as in-laws. The Kamba did not budge, although a peaceful and easy people who were lond distance traders, they were also ferocious defenders of their land to the point even the mighty Maasai co-existed with them side by side despite tribal skirmishes here and there.

    • Replies: @Malla
  245. The idea that the US can “defeat” China, Russia or even Iran or Venezuela is ridiculous.

    In the past whenever the US attacked another country based on false accusations(Vietnam and Gulf of Tonkin), or invaded into other countries’ land without bothering(Korean War), the US always had its ass handed royally back to itself in the most humiliating and tragic way possible.

    The US military is fat, bloated and corrupt, with many of their generals groveling at Trump’s feet and licking his ass just to be in his cabinet. After a while, even those with even a smidgeon of self-respect will just vomit in disgust at Trump and his sycophantic haremites and resign.

    Even the North Korean generals who furiously clap at Dear Leader Kim’s speeches look like winners in self-respect compared to Trump’s loser generals.

    Just travel outside America, and you can see how perceptions of America have changed. Many Chinese used to look up to America, seeing its wealth, soft power and freedoms. Now they ask, “What are you doing with the virus? Why can’t you even just wear a mask? Is it so difficult to be considerate to your fellow Americans? What is your IQ? Is it above 90 at least?”

    Almost every chinese and asian family I know have brought their kids back from schools in the US. They no longer trust the failed and corrupt Trump Regime to keep their kids safe against the Trump virus and the cheap anti-chinese racism Trump has invented to shift away the blame for the virus.

    They all know that Trump lost big in business against China last time and that’s why he hates Chinese–because they reamed his ass up to his throat and made him look like a loser and sucker in business.

    Not a single Chinese or Asian believes China is responsible for the Trump virus, to them, it’s all because Trump behaved like a foolish jackass and would not take the virus seriously, or he just didn’t know what to do, being a jackass who had previously failed in all his family businesses.

    They are shocked that the US POTUS could behave like that, and also now consider the Trump regime to be basically like the shit beneath the soles of their shoes.

    200,000 dead and 7 million infected. And China gave Trump 3 months advance warning that he frittered away playing 300 days of golf, attending sports events and grabbing pussies at parties. after that, he even sabotaged anyone trying to deal with the virus and tried to stop testing. Later on, he also discovered that the virus had escaped from US labs in early 2019 and quickly withdrew from the WHO so the WHO could not investigate the origin of the Trump virus in the USA.

    200,000 dead and 7 million infected. So much winning. Winning so much that you become tired of winning. And even more winning to come later.

    God is really punishing America and the Trump regime for its sins.

    • LOL: VinnyVette
    • Troll: GeneralRipper
  246. @homahr

    I did state that China is much more prepared for a ground war, you obviously didn’t read my comment.

  247. @Astuteobservor II

    Are you speaking of the Communist Party of China (CPC), commonly known as the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)?

  248. @Astuteobservor II

    I think I touched a nerve there.

    I’d really like to know if you just now realized you have a spelling error right in your unz handle, after I brought this up. Seriously?

    It’s “observer” with one “o” and two “e”s – probably too late to change it now …

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  249. @Vidi

    [Nothing else was remotely as cheap as paper.]
    .
    The left-hand is cheaper than toilet paper. But then, the west did not even invent the left-hand!!! ;-D, ;-D, ;-D

    • LOL: Vidi
  250. @Astuteobservor II

    And while you “totally” destroy India, we the West and especially, America would just stand by with a thumb up our arse… in what sort of megalomaniac fantasy world do you live in? Don’t you know that we would love nothing better than an opportunity to destroy China? Stay away from too much opium!

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  251. @Malla

    I was writing in RESPONSE to Bombercommand, who is rather loose on facts and rationality.
    .
    Whether Nehru or other Indian leaders took orders from Washington I don’t know but I am sure that Washington dearly wish India, and other Asian countries, gang up on China under its leadership.
    .
    India has a minority problem much bigger than China’s and it has less resources to deal with it. The leaders in both China and India are rational and have refrained from using “the minority cards”. Let us hope that it remains that way.

    • Agree: Malla
  252. @restless94110

    [China is improving that. They didn’t innovate that.]
    .
    THAT is exactly what I have WRITTEN about gunpowder and the gun: Post 49 above
    .
    “So thanks for agreeing with me over and over again, even is you somehow think you are not.”

    • Replies: @restless94110
  253. @Sick of Orcs

    Excellent response, SoO, and I may have to appropriate that dinosaur bit.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
  254. GammaRay says:
    @The wind which smells of Spring

    The attacks on China could only be from those awful white racists: they’re mad dogs who want to attack anyone in the world who looks funny.

    It wouldn’t instead be the civnats, liberals, cuck boomers, and American exceptionalists would it? All the other creatures of the american-jewish oligarchy who feel threatened by China’s existence as the antithesis of their corrupt weltanshauung.

    actually…my response was referring to all the china haters that are posting in the comments of this particular article. Although in all fairness I will grant that the implied context of my comment is only obvious if you’re reading through all the comments chronologically (and read all the spiteful anti-china comments by presumable white nationalists or similar types), as opposed to skimming through. Taken out of context I can understand how it might seem that im addressing china haters in a more general sense.

    If a ‘WN’ supports the establishment in any fight against China he’s not what he claims to be, which should be pretty obvious.

    ah no true scotsman right? I’ve heard this line from many self-proclaimed white nationalists. Im sorry but white nationalists dont police their own ranks as vigorously as you’re trying to suggest, ive seen plenty of anti-china belligerence in various white nationalist hangouts on the internet. You dont really think im some ignorant boomer that knows nothing of these kind of subcultures do you? Ive been hanging out in this corner of the internet for a while bud

    did you really go through the effort of posting under a new handle just to address me? lol. I wonder whose sockpuppet you actually are

  255. GammaRay says:
    @Ray Caruso

    What you wrote is pretty much all true except that White nationalists are not obsessed with destroying China. Those would be the neocons, whom White nationalists despise even more than standard liberals. If anything, we sympathize with China, an ethnostate and an anti-liberal society. Healthy nationalism is not about hating others; it’s about taking your own in a positive direction.

    with all do respect, and I do mean this because I always appreciate a respectful reply, I dont agree with your take on white nationalists. Having lots of experience browsing white nationalists hangouts, and having read thousands and thousands of their comments on various topics, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that white nationalists are divided on this issue. There is no mythical homogeneity between white nationalists, on any topic (which is natural for any kind of organization or group). What you have to consider, and what I probably think you would agree with is that there are various tiers of white nationalists. Some represent the movement better than others and do seem quite noble. I have a lot of respect for these white nationalists but unfortunately they are very very rare in my experience, the majority of white nationalists seem to be quite bitter and spiteful with regards to china, this can be seen in both the comments section here, as well as on other alt-right/white nationalist hangouts on the internet.

    Now, I do think it is important to consider the issue of semantics as well. Perhaps the group that you are envisioning when you speak of white nationalists is a different group than the one that im envisioning, when I use the term white nationalists I use it as a catchall term for people that are vaguely right wing and pro-white. To me for most intents and purposes, white nationalist is basically interchangeable with say, something like “alt-right”. However just to reiterate, ive spent years browsing various white nationalist sites running the gamut from white nationalist lite all the way up to 1488 tier stuff, so I do feel comfortable with saying that white nationalists seem negatively disposed to china, or at least a very large proportion of them seem to be this way. Perhaps im just not finding the “real” white nationalists, but if I havent encountered them by now then I have no idea where they could possibly be hiding since I’ve traversed large swathes of what is presumably their virtual territories and not encountered large communities of them yet

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Ray Caruso
  256. Robjil says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    China does not have a (((hostile elite))).

    The US and the west does.

    That is the main difference.

    The((( hostile elite))) of the west is destroying the west.

    It is does not make any sense at all what this (((hostile elite))) is doing.

    It will be the history books of future as the most stupid Elite ever in history.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  257. @Deep Thought

    Two of your links go to 404Error, the other(indiatv) goes to a menu of irrelevant articles. Your comment is incoherant, what point are you trying to make? I have merely pointed out that the Five Fingers of Tibet military policy is active and the Chinese military buildup demonstrates my point is sound.

  258. @GreatSocialist

    [God is really punishing America and the Trump regime for its sins.]
    .
    Trump said the the Americans, “I am the punishment of the Chinese… If you had not committed great sins against the Chinese, they would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”
    .
    https://www.hackensackschools.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=1317&dataid=9862&FileName=genghis%20khan%20information.pdf

  259. SBaker says:
    @Uncle Al

    Finally, a voice of reason and not a shill for China. Fred fails to mention that the US dollar did more to elevate China than all the other variables combined. Chicoms are gods.

  260. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’ve been predicting these sorts of China trends for over 40 years, and for anyone interested, back in 2012 I published a long article on the China/America comparison:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/chinese-melamine-and-american-vioxx-a-comparison/

    It contained an interesting chart showing the relative changes in the per capita GDPs, and those trends have mostly continued in the eight years since. That’s pretty obviously the reason there’s such extraordinary hostility in our totally corrupt and incompetent ruling American elites towards China these days:

    With the the least self-interested and best possible elite running America, it would be the equal of China? It might, but I don’t think that is at all obvious.

    SEX ratio at birth. To begin with, this ratio seems naturally higher among East Asians, i.e., in the range of 107 males / 100 females. As elsewhere, this higher ratio is now lasting well into adulthood.

    Given that the traditional infanticide of baby girls–now aided by ultrasound to detect female fetuses–is= a cultural extrapolation of a genetic tendency, the less self aggrandizing leadership style of the Chinese elite is quite possibly stemming from a genetically inherent collectivist tendency among the Chinese population. The ordinary Chinese is different to the common run of American, and those differences may well favour China in a level playing field competition.

    By my way of thinking, the West’s venal elites seem to be a reflection of the more competitive nature of Europeans both individually and in their nation states. When the Europeans were fighting was the most creative period in technology and culture and exploration; continental military autocracies were too strong for England and so the Anglo Saxon answer was to expand into colonies.

    The elite in the West (Wall Street and the corporate/ political nexus (as VP, Biden went there with his son, who got a billion of Chinese money to invest) were benefiting from globalised interdependent hypercapitalism, and those without a college degree were not. So I don’t think the economic disengagement (Huawei, TickTock) and rising military tension between the US and China is a top down thing. Most of those with a college degree did not vote for Trump. From the very begining in Ancient Greece, democracies have been extremely warlike. The Chinese seem unwilling to let that sleeping dog lie.

    • Agree: Johnny Rico
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  261. Malla says:
    @Ponder

    It highlights 2,000 years ago when the major migrations started in 2,000 BC.

    Yes agreed , it was 2000 B.C.

    The image finally reveals another lie, that the lack of no written records or buildings means genocide but that is in itself a lie for even if the earlier inhabitants had been exterminated,

    That is just speculation. Anybody who reads that would understand.

    The Bantu have co-existed peacefully with all other Nilotes and Cushites.

    There are few examples of peaceful co-existence even in between Bantus and pygmies. But that is not the norm. Bantus were even ruthless to other Bantus so much so that many Bantu tribes readily made alliances with Europeans for protection from more warlike Bantu tribes and nations.

    Does not make any difference. Most of Central and Southern Africa were Pygmies and Khoi San. East Africa was a bit different.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    , @Ponder
  262. SBaker says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Fred left out, either conveniently or ignorantly, the most significant driver of China’s rise to power, the US dollar.

  263. @Vidi

    Here we go with “this was invented in the west… But…” canard. Gutenburg invented the printing press period! The Wright brothers invented the air plane period!
    Wether or not some Chinese had the thought or idea, is irrelevant.
    They did not come up with a functional, useful, piece of machinery that revolutionized civilization.
    Leonardo DiVinci had plans drawn up for lots of things including plans for manned flight, however he did not design, construct, test, tweak, and come up with a useful end product. Brilliant man? Sure, what matters is who came through with the final fully realized end product.
    The lengths some of the commenters such as yourself are going to, to to try to justify the Chinese are really on par with the west in terms of technology, and the end results of that technology are pathetic!
    Yeah, the Chinese invented things, and had an advanced civilization “at a certain point in time,” That came to an abrupt end, and the west surpassed them by leaps and bounds.
    So the Chinese have finally caught up, good on them. They are not where they are today without western technology and investment, and you cannot argue around that. They did not pull themselves up by the bootstraps all by themselves.
    Everybody’s raving about China right?
    It’s so wonderful right? Sure, thanks to western technology and capitalism.

    • Agree: SBaker
    • Replies: @Vidi
    , @Biff
  264. @Achmed E. Newman

    It is silly to claim that China is not a communist dictatorship. Xi is the man, just as the Gen Sec of the CPSU was the man in the Soviet Union. Claims that the US is trying to stir trouble in Xinjiang or Hong Kong is of a piece with the thought of one man I was acquainted with in the 70s, who thought the squirrels on the Vanderbilt campus were CIA and after him. People tire of lack of freedom, and China has, as was predicted years ago, turned inside and the leadership is Maoist again. Deng allowed sufficient freedom to be able to act economically in an individual’s personal interest. The regime now expects everyone to act in the interest in the regime. That has been stated succinctly, and openly, and is not at all in question.

    Like it or not, China is acting aggressively and is bullying its neighbors, as well as trying to throttle world trade through what I now call the West Philippine Sea by occupying reefs that never belonged to them, expanding them and encroaching on the EEZ of others. In short, anyone who thinks China is merely acting in the interest of their subjects is wearing blinders. China is a danger to everyone around her and is growing to a world threat.

    I like Fred and have been acquainted with him on the net almost from the beginning of his website, but I can’t agree with him on this score, and the US has as much moral authority to point these facts out as anyone.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  265. SBaker says:
    @Busting Erebus

    Interesting vocabulary for a hood rat. Believe me, bringing the wheel, written language, math, engineering, science, and intelligent assistance to your homeland was a mistake most of the civilized world recognizes. We don’t need you to remind us.

  266. @Malla

    Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the history of KwaZulu is aware that Bantu tribes have a history of war and even genocide. The Zulu ran the Matabele across the mountains into what became Rhodesia, and chased the Xhosa south towards Cape Colony. That was of a piece with the history of the migration of the Bantu peoples from east Africa to the early 19th century when the British at Cape Colony met the refugees that had been pushed south by Shaka.

    • Agree: Malla
  267. Malla says:
    @Agent76

    Chinese forces have invaded Nepal. But the government of Nepal, run by the Nepal Communist Party, denies its happening.

    This is propaganda. China Nepal borders are fixed by consultation from both sides decades ago. The truth is most Nepali hate Indian Govt for interfering and bullying Nepal and they look to China as their ally. Secondly the Nepali politician who resists Indian aggression and bullying the most is PM Khadga Prasad Sharma Oli or KP Sharma Oli. The Indian secret service RAW (Research and Analysis Wing, basically the Indian CIA) actually was responsible for engineering political coups and running him out of power before. Kind of similar to the Sri Lankan PM Mahinda Rajapaksa who stood up to Indian bullying and is pro China and the Indian RAW organised political coups against him in the past.

    https://www.thequint.com/news/world/nepal-prime-minister-kp-sharma-oli-claims-rivals-being-provoked-by-india-to-overthrow-him
    Nepal PM Claims Rivals Being Provoked by India to Overthrow Him

    https://www.dailypioneer.com/2020/page1/intel-officials-in-nepal-to-turn-tide-for-india.html
    Intel officials in Nepal to turn tide for India
    RAW, IB chiefs in hectic parleys with leaders of political spectrum
    RAW–> External spying network of India
    IB—> Internal network, infiltrated and filled to the brim with hindu fundamentalists.

    https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/sri-lanka-president-mahinda-rajapaksa-blames-india-raw-for-his-election-defeat-244216-2015-03-13
    India’s spy agency RAW behind my poll defeat, says former Sri Lankan president Mahinda Rajapaksa
    “Both the US and India openly used their embassies to bring me down,” Rajapaksa said ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s maiden visit to the country.

    https://www.cnbctv18.com/politics/sri-lankan-president-sirisena-accuses-raw-of-plotting-his-assassination-report-1118591.htm
    Sri Lankan President Sirisena accuses RAW of plotting his assassination: report
    Sirisena told ministers that the Indian intelligence agency was “trying to kill” him.

    Yup the RAW like the CIA is an expert in regime change. Did that once on the peaceful Kingdom of Sikkim (situated in between Nepal and the Kingdom of Bhutan) and absorbed Sikkim.
    The truth is many of India’s small neigbours use China to balance India’s power and bullying. And one more thing, the Nepali Communists/Maoists interestingly take their orders from new Delhi and not from Beijing in the Land of Chairman Mao.

    • Replies: @homahr
    , @Ponder
  268. Thanks for this article about China. Our church is acquainted with a missionary couple serving in China. They report the same thing.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
  269. @Astuteobservor II

    Thanks for the link, but it does not have English subtitles. Watched it anyway, love to see it with English subtitles. What you failed to notice, in your kneejerk sinophilia, is that the video appears to show that one of my conjectures is sound: the Chinese intend not only to seize the Five Fingers, but to “fill in the gaps on the map” and seize the entire montane region, exceeding their historical claims. You have utterly failed to understand my comment. Nowhere was I implying that China would lose the ground war. They have planned to win, and India has not kept up with the threat. What you, and the Chinese, seem to fail to grasp, is the war will not be limited to the disputed border area. India will not accept China changing the border. Since India, barring unknown new developments, will not be able to eject China, this will lead to permanent war, and India will use whatever advantage it has, which is its Navy and its position on the Indian Ocean. Despite your smug goofy snark, I have been paying close attention to China’s Naval buildup for over ten years, particularly their naval aviation program, which is a fiasco. Neither Liaoning nor Shandong is combat capable as the J15 cannot launch at battle weight. The Chinese seem to realize their goofup and the carrier under construction is entirely different and will be combat capable. From your comment, you appear to believe the Chinese Navy will enter the Indian Ocean and sink the Indian Navy, because that is what will be required. Now, nor in ten years time, will the Chinese Navy have the capability to operate Task Forces in the Indian Ocean, no criticism of China, it is just an incredibly difficult thing for any Navy to accomplish. When China pulls the trigger on its Five Fingers program, it will violate The United Nations Charter. Any action by India will be legal and India’s only option is a naval blockade(of Chinese shipping only) of the Indian Ocean. India has the capability. This means no oil from The Gulf for China. The effects will be immediate, but China will just dig in its heels. Neither side will be willing to compromise. This is what I mean by a “permanent war”, hopefully the nukes don’t fly. I live in a diverse neighborhood, the main grocery is Chinese, but zero Indian customers. My condo building has both Chinese and Indian owners. There is no interaction and zero communication between the two groups, I get along with both. I have seen the shrieking hostility between Chinese and Indians flare instantly over trivial things. I don’t think a Westerner can understand how dangerous the border conflict is or how horrific the results will be if it gets hotter.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  270. @Supply and Demand

    What is Dalian like in terms of the living environment and economic opportunities? I hear that Northeast China as a whole has become a bleak post-industrial rust belt.

  271. @Deep Thought

    I did not realize you wrote that the Chinese did not invent gunpowder and the gun.

    Sorry, deep, you are wrong. The Chinese did invent gunpowder and the gun.

    Are you dizzy from the merry-go-round you’ve been on these past several posts? You seem hella confused.

    Maybe the Chinese have improved aspirin or something that you could take and feel better?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Deep Thought
  272. A Texan says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    It’s quiet possible that Whites arrived on the shores of North America during the last ice age when sea levels were lower. I’ve wondered over the years how many the ‘natives’ killed that did not look like them over resources or territory. But that does not fit the ‘woe is us narrative’. Funny that the natives were oppressing their neighbors and raping them, eating them, and enslaving them, yet YT is always the bad guy somehow. No one reads Lewis and Clark, La Salle, and others about those wonderful ‘native Americans’.

  273. anon[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @GammaRay

    Instead of debating who represents the “real” white nationalists, why not just give concrete examples of who you are talking about? Lots of people can pose as “white nationalists,” including Federal agents, antifa, communists, etc. Just give us an example of a racially-conscious white person who is “against” China and whom you consider representative of “white nationalists,” and the commenters here will decide whether or not your claim has merit.

    Any “white” person who is racially conscious usually supports and respects China, Japan, and Asian culture. Jared Taylor, raised in Japan and able to speak fluent Japanese, is the example par excellence.. Red Ice Radio has had Japanese guests, and regularly praises Japan, China, and so forth for maintaining their culture and resisting globalist domination of the world. Keith Woods, who has written articles published on Unz, has also praised China for being a bastion of ethnonationalism. Richard Spencer had an Asian girlfriend. Borzoi Boskovich of TRS is Korean (haha – I’m being tongue-in-cheek there) but he’s lived in Korea and is well-read in Japanese/Korean literature and well-versed in their cultures. Hitler considered Chinese and Japanese honorary Aryans. What more do you need to know?

    Who are your “white nationalists”? Are they people who would’ve appeared on the Montel Williams show? Jerry Springer show? Daily Stormer? Just give us concrete examples instead of making assertions, and then the discussion will be more meaningful.

    • Agree: Ray Caruso
    • Replies: @GammaRay
  274. @restless94110

    ‘…Fred is trying to put lipstick on a pig. But it’s still a pig.’

    Well, on the one hand, I don’t go to the extreme Godfree Roberts and others do of defending everything about China. I daresay I’d even be somewhat more negative about it than Fred.

    On the other hand, I don’t see indiscriminately vilifying it as particularly accurate either. China has changed dramatically over the last forty years — generally, for the better. We are talking about a fifth of humanity. Within in living memory, they were still mired in actual, dire physical poverty and living under an often vicious dictatorship given to wholesale repression of just about everybody.

    It hasn’t all become a giant version of Sweden — but it is a lot better than it was. Denying that is at least as unreasonable as shooting off to the opposite extreme and deciding it’s all just wonderful.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  275. Hacienda says:

    My condo building has both Chinese and Indian owners. There is no interaction and zero communication between the two groups, I get along with both.

    Not a new phenomenon. I’ve never seen Chinese and Indians together casually without whites or occasionally other Asians involved. Neither group is celebrated for spontaneous out-of-group social interaction. It probably pains them that they even have to engage each other in any social situation, let alone militarily.

    I have seen the shrieking hostility between Chinese and Indians flare instantly over trivial things.

    How many times?

  276. anon4real says:
    @Deep Thought

    But Chinese also like young black bucks who are willing to join the CBA and help Chinese women undergo a …reform and opening up, shall we say? A case in point is….

    https://i0.wp.com/icecreamconvos.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Screen-Shot-2020-09-19-at-4.48.43-PM.png?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1

  277. @Robjil

    What the billionaires want is a bigger population base for a bigger economy. USA is also the only developed economy with a growing population. The Jewish elites wants open borders for another reason entirely. But both of their goals do align.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  278. @God's Fool

    You need to get out more. And breathe, it will help calm you down. I am also the west, just not the megalomaniac west you represent.

    That comment was purely my own opinion based on the current abilities of both countries.

    And are you insinuating that USA would go hot and join India in a total war with China? Are you? Cold war should bitch slap your retarded ass for even thinking it.

    I can’t wait when China takes back Taiwan while you watch it on TV and die from a brain aneurysm. Because that is all you can do.

    FYI, if USA could, instead of the current economic war with China, there would already be a hot war with China. Think about why there isn’t. Maybe you would learn something.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  279. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    I would appreciate where you get your information about bantu fighting the pygmy.

    Now, let me cut to the chase. Every information about Africa clearly shows that all Africans had small families. Why? No agriculture. That lastest for many years before the Bantu started farming. Prior to that, all where hunter gatherers and hence had few children for fear of starvation — an otherwise new concept in Africa. Had never had starvation problems until recently when the land was made into countries. The Bantu expanded by keeping domesticated animals and after that, the migration started. And their shared their new knowledge freely.

    I want you to note very carefully that nowhere is there any record of any genocide. That’s very important, because even where there is assumptions of genocide, in that same document you find Bantu assimilation and absorption of other tribes. Before the Zulu, there is no history of any African Warlike Bantu people and the strongest is not Bantu but Cushite ; the Somali. Note that Zulu warfare is very recent.

    Now, you should know that African is the most genetically diverse place in the whole world. That point is undisputed. How, could that be if, war as maliciously speculated, followed Bantu migration? Now see that the Nilotic and Cushitic people lived and live mostly around east African and northern Africa. Check how small the geographical area of the pygmy ( central Africa) and San and Khoi Khoi is (southern Africa) and I mean historically and not presently. Go check. The DNA of pygmy and the San and the khoi is found in the Bantu. Just check even at wikipedia and see for your self. Look at the macro Haplotype L, and find that pygmy have one of the earliest of it L0 and its variants. Now, check how widespread that haplotype is in the rest of Bantu Africa. That is assimilation and not genocide. There was no need for genocide as the land was so huge and lush. The pgymies who did not want to assimilate simply moved further into the forest. And that is where they are found to this day, with some right next to other Bantu even to the point of incorporating many bantu words. Same history for the San and Khoi Khoi.

    Finally, all African tribes maintained their history carefully through folklore and dedicated history masters. The story of roots the book and movie depicts that clearly with Halex Haley finding his African roots through oral history of the genealogy of Kunta Kinte his slave ancestor. Genealogy was very important to Africans because they believed that the all supreme God gave his human creation some of his essence and the more earlier the ancestors the stronger the essence with the first man and woman more closest to God. —- now you know why elders are revered. So genealogy was very precious. Where is even one folklore of those conquests? Folklore of migrating from west Africa and south Africa exist but no war history?

    Africa is truly an enigma with over 1,200 languages and nearly 700 bantu languages alone can tell you the tale of assimilation and not genocide. Even fairly recent pygmy to bantu marriages that fail due the pygmy being unable to adapt to farming see them move back to their pygmy tribes even with children since most such marriages are often bantu man to pygmy woman. See even recent language like swahili —– Arabic assimilation in East Africa by the Bantu. That is the very brief summary of African Bantu people. Pick any tribe and we can delve deeper to prove to you that there was no genocide. This things are very new phenomena of starvation and non-peaceful co-existence. Very 18 and 19 and 20 century phenomenon. Better stop here, I think I have made an enough case of no genocide. History doesn’t support that hypothesis, neither the languages, neither the mtDNA nor the folklore. That’s just conjured nonsense.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  280. @Bombercommand

    You seem to think India would have a chance, I don’t. I am not taking any sides, just based purely on my knowledge of both militaries and the back end support n supply capabilities. Of course we wouldn’t know who is ultimately right or wrong until China n India really go at it. But I am pretty confident of my opinion on this.

    About your comments on your Chinese n Indian neighbors. I have no idea why you bring it up. What does that have anything to do with China vs India? Your neighbors represent China vs India?

    You really need to stop thinking a blockade of Indian ocean can succeed. Don’t bank on it. You need to think about what if the blockade fails, what are the choices for India then? If that is all India has, think hard about starting hostilities.

    PS, learn to use paragraphs.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  281. d dan says:
    @anon4real

    “There’s no such a thing as a foreigner who can make a lot of money in China. What are you smoking?”

    Nonsense. Apple, Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, HP,… as well as many other non-tech companies like Starbucks, Walmart, Federal Express, …, have made trillions out of China over the decades – and we have not even mentioning about companies from EU, Japan, Korea etc. The fact that those money did not trigger down to the work class Americans is not China’s fault. Blame the economic, political and social system in your country.

    “I’m not saying that’s bad, but Chinese are super-savvy about business opportunities …”

    Again, it is not Chinese faults that they are more business savvy than you.

    “… will never allow a foreigner to make money doing something that they can do.”

    If you claim that China is making legal or administrative obstacles to prevent foreigner to make money, than you have to prove that those obstacles aren’t allowed under WTO, or they are contrary to the bilateral or multilateral investment and/or trade agreements between China and other countries.

    The fact remains: if you possesses special skills or can offer unique or enterprising services, China welcome you, and there are people who did make their first millions in China. But if you just hope to capitalize on your whiteness – sorry.

    • Replies: @anon4real
  282. denk says:
    @Agent76

    I’ve posted tons of materials on Nepal,

    To recap…
    Nepalese king Birendra proposed a zone of peacE in the 70’s.

    World reaction,
    114 vs 1

    [MORE]

    NO it wasnt FUKUS 😉
    This time its India at the right side of history.
    No wonder they call it the USA of South Asia,.

    BTW,
    This is the ONE time the great satan wasNT on the right side of history.

    BUt wait a min.,
    would a leopard change its spots,
    or Dracula stop sucking blood ?

    NOt long later, the king and his entire family was wiped out in a palace bloodbath, courtesy of CIA./RAW, cuz the king wanna befriend China .!
    Sound familiar ?

    Global Chinese exclusion act in action.

    Contrary to murikkan hallucination,
    The Nepalese Maoists were harbored and trained in India. Bharat executed a regime change in 2015 when its Maoist proxies ended Nepalese centuries
    old monarchy.

    After the 1962 border war with China, the IndianS appropriated a chunk of Nepalese land as buffer zone. They have been squatting there ever since inspite of repeated request from Nepal to return the booty.

    ‘Nepal ‘still waiting for a response from India’ to resolve border dispute’
    https://www.deccanchronicle.com/world/neighbours/100620/nepal-still-waiting-for-a-response-from-india-to-resolve-border.html

    Last month, there was a border clash.
    Indian troops intruded into Nepalese territory and tried to disarm Nepalese border guards.
    Messing with the Gurkhas was never a good idea, the jawans were promptly disposed of.

    Nepal never have problem with China, but plenty with India, in fact, Nepalese regards China as a bulwark against Sikkimisation.

    Hardly had I reposted these stuffs , when CIAgent76, who’s fond of dumping falun gong produced videos from China uncensored, dump another youtube video on us.
    wow, its about ‘Chinese invasion of Nepal’

    Reeks of your typical Indian cow dung, you can smell it miles away.
    Just goes to show, no way you can wean murikkans away from their fav Indian cow dung, the last time I tried they called me
    Tianamen butcher, no less.
    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/india-implodes-its-own-new-silk-road/#comment-4150020

    Not to be outdone, bombercommand
    [just look at that mofoking handle], tell us China has a plan to gobble up the ‘five fingers’ [sic], starting with its attack on India in 1962

    This is mofoking funny.

    By now, even fukus presstitudes seldom peddle that Chinese invasion crap cuz it’s long been exposed.
    Yours truly , among others, have already called out that B.S. hundreds of times here.
    Even the Indian MSM already admitted as such,.
    BHarat was the aggressor, guilty as charged.

    Yet we’ve this bald faced liar bombercommand to tell us, that Indo/sino war was the first shot in China’s plan to gobbled up the ‘five fingers’

    BOmber , your slip is showing, yet another closet Pompass clone.

    JOhn perfidious Derby

    China is the land of lies.

    Thats rich, coming from
    the land of Pompass clones.

    Bomb er

    ‘three batshit crazies fighting amongst themselves

    nuthin to do with the crazies in Washington eh ?
    ‘ the decision-makers in Beijing think that the crazies have taken over in Washington, and are trying to draw most of Asia into an anti-Chinese alliance. There is a good deal of evidence to suggest that they are right.’
    https://thewalrus.ca/2005-10-international-affairs/

    GUess who toppled the BHutan king when he tried to befriend China, ….CIA/RAW !

    China claimed Arunachal Prudesh ?
    why not, its the HMDL birth place, tAwang, annexed by Indian since 1951

    Who wiped out KIng Birendra’s family,
    who toppled the centuries old Nepalese monarchy
    ?
    CIA/RAW. !

    Who gobbled up Sikkim in 1975 ?
    India../

    So now you learn a new word, bomber,
    Sikkimisation.

    The kind of stuff that keep the Nepalese, Sri Lankans, Pakistanis, Bangladeshi, BHutanese sit up in the middle of night in cold sweat.

    Oops., BHutan was already a protectorate of
    Delhi, just one step away from Sikkimisation,.
    Now you learn another word, Bhutanisation.

    Three bat shit crazies fighting heheh

    Reminds me of that bitch Pelosi,
    crowing on the CIA peaceful rioters raking havoc in HK.

    What a beautiful sight

    NUthin to do with us,
    of course,

    heheh

  283. Robjil says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    The Jewish Elite thinks it is OK to demean the masses of European peoples who make the majority of the west.

    China does not demean the Han people who are the majority of the China.

    Demeaning your majority population 24/7 which the Jewish Elite does in the west, is not a good thing to built a good and healthy society.

    We are seeing the results of this long time harassing of European peoples right now with the stupid BLM games.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  284. @Achmed E. Newman

    If you are an older anon of unz review, you would know about why my name is the way it is. And what kinda trap it is. There weren’t that many retarded anons back then.

    What is it about retards n low hanging fruits? Is it because that is all you can manage? Keke.

  285. homahr says:
    @Malla

    The Indians really should not have blockaded Nepal. I have coworker from Nepal and she would always talk about how much the blockade made Nepalis absolutely hate India. She mentioned one time after the earthquake there, that Pakistan sent ‘beef-flavored’ meals as part of the relief efforts. (Really dumb on Pakistan’s part, considering this was actually a Hindu kingdom for a long time) The Nepali government protested, the Pakistani government said it was a mistake, apologized and sent more relief packages. The Indian media on the other hand, took this story and started their usual incitement against Pakistan. She said the India media’s incitement against Pakistan and general anti-Nepali attitude just make the Nepalis hate them even more, regardless of how much aid India sent after the earthquake.

    • Agree: Malla
  286. @Colin Wright

    You actually seem logical enough.

    So here is a question.

    What evidence do you have that the Chinese govt is a vicious dictatorship that represses every one in China? What is your basis for that claim?

  287. anon4real says:
    @d dan

    Wow, you truly are dense. You obviously have a tendency to filter out people’s nuance through a simplistic mind and react to comments based on your flawed perception of what was stated. Either that or you are not a native speaker of English. I’ll be kind and go with the more charitable interpretation because apparently we are really at cross-purposes here.

    Nonsense. Apple, Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, HP,… as well as many other non-tech companies like Starbucks, Walmart, Federal Express, …, have made trillions out of China over the decades – and we have not even mentioning about companies from EU, Japan, Korea etc.

    Yes, this proves my point. Those are all big companies who invested in China. The CEOs and executives of those companies had capital before coming to China. They moved their operations to China and invested in China in order to reduce labor costs, etc. This does not help your case. None of those cases involves people going to China and then starting from scratch and working their way up to the top.

    Are you trying to argue in favor of China being some kind of free market where foreigners can become rich entrepreneurs? But at the same time you seem to harbor some resentment against the idea of foreigners making money in China? You are just a confused mess – a mixed up, totally contradictory specimen of obtuse gibber-gabber.

    The fact that those money did not trigger down to the work class Americans is not China’s fault. Blame the economic, political and social system in your country.

    When did I say anything about this? How is this even relevant? Apparently, you mistakenly thought I was criticizing China from some economic nationalist point of view because … you can’t read? or you’re just really dense? or you’re not a native English speaker?

    Again, it is not Chinese faults that they are more business savvy than you.

    Again, I see you showing more insecurity here. Why the hostility here? Was I complaining about the Chinese being business-savvy? My point (which was in response to another comment suggesting that foreigners can go to China to get rich)was that it’s unlikely for a foreigner (in China, not America – please learn to read English) to exploit a business opportunity and get rich at the expense of, without the express consent of or cooperation of, or before a Chinese person does. This creates a situation where foreigners in China are at a disadvantage with respect to the native Chinese. Is there anything wrong with that? This is how it should be. You should be able to make more money than a foreigner in your native country. Whatever opportunity exists to make money in your own country should be taken advantage of by the native people and for their benefit. Am I wrong here?

    So are Chinese smart for making the most of business opportunities in their own country, or are they kind and open-minded because they allow foreigners to make the most of business opportunities in their own country? You can’t have it both ways. Then again, you were confused from the very beginning.

    If you claim that China is making legal or administrative obstacles to prevent foreigner to make money, than you have to prove that those obstacles aren’t allowed under WTO, or they are contrary to the bilateral or multilateral investment and/or trade agreements between China and other countries.

    What do I care about the WTO or agreements with other countries? Why do I have to prove that? If China wants to make legal and administrative obstacles to prevent foreigners from making money, that’s their right as a sovereign country. They do have legal and administrative obstacles against foreigners making money – there are strict rules about how much equity foreigners can own in Chinese companies, rules for protecting Chinese workers, etc. Is there something wrong with that?

    The fact remains: if you possesses special skills or can offer unique or enterprising services, China welcome you, and there are people who did make their first millions in China.

    Examples please? Can you give me the name of a foreigner who came to China and then became successful as an entrepreneur (excluding exceptional cases like a Canadian who learns fluent Chinese and goes on to become a cross-talk performer)?

    But if you just hope to capitalize on your whiteness – sorry.

    Who the hell said anything about this? You are obviously a very, very insecure person who reads what he wants into other people’s comments. My guess is that you are not a native speaker of English.

    Learn to read before posting a comment. My guess is that you are a Chinese who is offended by a misinterpretation of a text he didn’t understand. Your grasp of the English language is not sufficient for you to distinguish a critique against China (which is what you seem to think I’m conveying) vs. a critique of another poster’s point that foreigners can make a lot of money in China.

    No worries. Back to your English studies.

    • Replies: @d dan
  288. GammaRay says:
    @anon

    Instead of debating who represents the “real” white nationalists, why not just give concrete examples of who you are talking about? Lots of people can pose as “white nationalists,” including Federal agents, antifa, communists, etc. Just give us an example of a racially-conscious white person who is “against” China and whom you consider representative of “white nationalists,” and the commenters here will decide whether or not your claim has merit.

    already did bud:

    the majority of white nationalists seem to be quite bitter and spiteful with regards to china, this can be seen in both the comments section here, as well as on other alt-right/white nationalist hangouts on the internet.

    the majority of china-haters in the comments section of this article are what I would consider white nationalists/alt-righters etc etc. Im sorry but “white nationalism” isnt some exclusive club. You dont gatekeep this “club” although its clear that you have delusions that you do lol. The definition I gave of white nationalists as I was using it was very accommodating and I was clearly implying that the definition I was using was both my subjective nomenclature and also non-exclusive. Perhaps white nationalist means something different to you, I dont know. My definition is below:

    Now, I do think it is important to consider the issue of semantics as well. Perhaps the group that you are envisioning when you speak of white nationalists is a different group than the one that im envisioning, when I use the term white nationalists I use it as a catchall term for people that are vaguely right wing and pro-white. To me for most intents and purposes, white nationalist is basically interchangeable with say, something like “alt-right”.

    —————————————————————————————————————

    Any “white” person who is racially conscious usually supports and respects China, Japan, and Asian culture. Jared Taylor, raised in Japan and able to speak fluent Japanese, is the example par excellence.. Red Ice Radio has had Japanese guests, and regularly praises Japan, China, and so forth for maintaining their culture and resisting globalist domination of the world.

    nope. The truth is that there’s a variety of opinions regarding china when it comes to white nationalists. Most white nationalists ive encountered seem to support japan and be against china. What you wrote is misleading, you seem to be setting up a strawman by suggesting that white nationalists support and respect “asians” but you neglected to acknowledge the fact that I was originally claiming that white nationalists seem to dislike china specifically. I never claimed to my knowledge in this thread that white nationalists hate east asians overall, I was only discussing how they dislike china.

    anyways im toying with you at this point, im not going to get into a serious debate about what constitutes a “real” white nationalist and what doesnt. The concept of what constitutes a “real” white nationalists doesnt objectively exist, its entirely subjective. I take it youve never heard of the “no true scotsman” fallacy before?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    white nationalists are not one monolithic, political homogenous group. There are tons of factions within white nationalism, at best white nationalism is basically an umbrella term, the same as the term “alt-right”. Sorry to burst your bubble but there are lots of ignorant, belligerent bad eggs in the white nationalist community (every single political community has these, it would shocking if WN was the exception, but its not), and not all of them are spooks. Lots of them are real WN who are just ignorant, bitter or hateful

    Lots of people can pose as “white nationalists,” including Federal agents, antifa, communists, etc.

    funny this is coming from somebody that used richard spencer as an example of a white nationalist. you are aware that richard spencer is probably an intelligence agent right?

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/exclusive-report-richard-spencer-confirmed-deep-state-plant/

    ive see other allegations that connect the dots to him and his CIA handlers but I cant be arsed to find them right now, you can search for them yourself

    • Replies: @anon
  289. Anon[353] • Disclaimer says:
    @restless94110

    Gun: is blowgun considered a gun? According to some it is. It appears that blowgun was invented independently over most of world. The powered gun, with black powder, was not the first gun.

    • Thanks: restless94110
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  290. anon[145] • Disclaimer says:
    @GammaRay

    already did bud:

    Haha, no not really, bud. Let’s see your quote:

    the majority of white nationalists seem to be quite bitter and spiteful with regards to china, this can be seen in both the comments section here, as well as on other alt-right/white nationalist hangouts on the internet.

    Do you know what “specific” means? I can send you a link to a tutorial about how to Google the meaning of words, if you’d like. You do realize that people on Unz are anonymous personalities, right? They don’t constitute evidence for your point. You didn’t even name a specific commenter (not that it would’ve mattered, because they are all anonymous internet personalities anyways). You quote yourself speaking generally about the “majority of white nationalists,” referring generally to the Unz commenters on this article. Using a vague generality to support a vague generality is not the same as using a specific example, bud.

    Im sorry but “white nationalism” isnt some exclusive club. You dont gatekeep this “club” although its clear that you have delusions that you do lol.

    Not really. I just asked you to name a specific person with real face and a real name. Just one example of a person whom you consider representative of “white nationalist” and who dislikes China. And you couldn’t do it. Personally, I don’t care what makes a real “white nationalist.” I don’t care about “white nationalists.” That’s why I asked you to name a specific person.

    when I use the term white nationalists I use it as a catchall term for people that are vaguely right wing and pro-white.

    Yeah, that’s a pretty broad definition. Basically, a “white nationalist” is anyone whom you want to be a white nationalist. Pretty tautological if you ask me. And convenient for making your non-argument. It allows you to even say that all white people basically dislike China (if your logic is taken to its logical conclusion), which might very well be your agenda. It’s no wonder you can’t name a specific person who fits your profile and must resort to using “catchall terms” and “vague” terminology that allows you to paint with a broad brush and make assertions without evidence.

    The truth is that there’s a variety of opinions regarding china when it comes to white nationalists. Most white nationalists ive encountered seem to support japan and be against china.

    Again, examples please? I won’t get my hopes up… More sweeping generalizations and unsupported assertions.

    What you wrote is misleading, you seem to be setting up a strawman by suggesting that white nationalists support and respect “asians” but you neglected to acknowledge the fact that I was originally claiming that white nationalists seem to dislike china specifically. I never claimed to my knowledge in this thread that white nationalists hate east asians overall, I was only discussing how they dislike china.

    I underestimated the degree to which you suffer from autism apparently. Pardon me.

    “Strawman”? And this is coming from the man who is literally using a strawman by saying that I’m somehow gate-keeping for “white nationalists” when all I asked for was a specific, concrete example of someone who can illustrate what you describe as a “white nationalist who dislikes China.”

    white nationalists are not one monolithic, political homogenous group. There are tons of factions within white nationalism, at best white nationalism is basically an umbrella term, the same as the term “alt-right”. Sorry to burst your bubble but there are lots of ignorant, belligerent bad eggs in the white nationalist community (every single political community has these, it would shocking if WN was the exception, but its not), and not all of them are spooks. Lots of them are real WN who are just ignorant, bitter or hateful

    More empty drivel…Like I said, I don’t care bud. Again, I’m still waiting on the specific example of a person who is a “white nationalist” and who “dislikes” East Asians…okay, scratch that…China! Any time now….

    funny this is coming from somebody that used richard spencer as an example of a white nationalist. you are aware that richard spencer is probably an intelligence agent right?

    He probably is. Do I care? What’s funny is how you selectively ignored specific people I mentioned (i.e. Keith Woods) who have praised China and Red Ice (which has invited both Chinese and Japanese nationalists on their show and expressed mutual sympathy for each other’s causes). You even ignored the fact that Hitler declared both Chinese and Japanese honorary Aryans (LOL).

    You see, this is how you cite specific examples. Apparently, this is not a skill you’ve developed in your academic career…or rather, Unz commenting career to be more accurate.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  291. @Robjil

    That fault falls squarely on the white elites. They are not protecting the rest of the white population. But maybe that is what the elites want too? As a confident and capable white population can and will challenge the elites. They will get in the way of the elites plans.

    The biggest difference I see between the govts in the USA n EU vs the Chinese one, the money is above the govt in the West, for the Chinese it is the opposite.

    So elites are out for their own gain only. If the white elites do their jobs while lining their own pockets, the Jewish elites wouldn’t have a chance. Just FYI, it isn’t like the Jewish elites hasn’t been sending their own to infiltrate China, they have. And they have made zero progress.

    • Replies: @anon
  292. @Astuteobservor II

    Your reading comprehension is deficent, twice. For the third time, and I shouldn’t have to be doing this again, I stated very clearly that China has the advantage in a ground war at the border(in defiance of The United Nations Charter, you do not seem to want to acknowledge that). I explained in detail how an Indian Navy blockade of Chinese shipping that originates in any port opening to the Indian Ocean would succeed, given the strength of the Indian Navy, and India’s position on the north of the Indian Ocean. For China, an abrupt cutoff of oil from The Gulf is gonna hurt, real bad. A vague “what if it fails” assertion with a goofy tone of “high confidence” does not suffice as a counter-argument. You must explain in detail how China will break an Indian Navy blockade. Give it a go.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  293. Vidi says:
    @VinnyVette

    Here we go with “this was invented in the west… But…” canard. Gutenburg invented the printing press period!

    What part of “China was printing books no later than 868 AD, which is centuries before Gutenberg was born” do you not understand?

    As even some Westerners admit, the printing press was probably the greatest invention of the last one or two millenia. Nothing else comes close. Without it, Western civilization would not have risen. Deep down, you must realize this, if we can judge by your desperate assertion that the printing press was an innovation of the West, in spite of irrefutable evidence to the contrary in the British Library (link). As a tall building needs a strong foundation, everything the West has done needed China’s printing press (and paper, gunpowder, and compass).

    Wether [sic] or not some Chinese had the thought or idea, is irrelevant. They did not come up with a functional, useful, piece of machinery that revolutionized civilization.

    The great scientist Francis Bacon disagrees with you. He wrote “Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world”. Those were three of China’s four great inventions.

    Yeah, the Chinese invented things, and had an advanced civilization “at a certain point in time,” That came to an abrupt end, and the west surpassed them by leaps and bounds.

    As long as there is no forgetting (and China’s printing press has boosted mankind’s memory as nothing else has done), progress continues. China jumped ahead, then the West, and now China is set to lead again. And civilization will continue to rise.

  294. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    I thought to lessen your reading burden from a site that analysed the DNA of some Bantu tribes including those that never migrated but have always been in east Africa.

    So as you can see Bantu did not all originate from west Africa as per the image you posted. Many Bantu like Taita, Mijikenda, Chagga, Kamba etc. were always in east Africa living side by side with cushites and nilotes. And yet the Kikuyu being from west africa share same similar bantu language with kamba. More over even more astonishing, the Kikuyu share some cushitic haplotype E with some cushitic tribes like ethiopians without actually ever lived together. The only non bantu tribe they mildly intermarried in minute numbers were the nilotic Maasai. Very very interesting. A true tale of intermingling and inter marrying in as many combinations as there are tribes. Let it rest about African genocides. Africans have been a fairly peaceable people as even the missionaries who came attested to — with many having African guides like the kamba, who incidentally even accompanied them to Paraguay and formed a very small group called Kamba Kua with very similar dance culture like the Kamba of Africa but the language being incompatible due to Kamba Kua assimilating with tribes in south America and being influenced linguistically. Kamba Kua is actually the story of what was happening all over Africa hence the high number of languages.

    Let it rest my friend. Africans have been a very peaceable people relative to other races until fairly recently. Till the tale of the Zulu is known all over Africa due to its uniqueness.

    • Replies: @Ponder
  295. icedoc says:
    @FredReeder

    “I fail to grasp the benefit of changing direction every four years…”

    The change is somewhat illusory. With the huge 4th branch bureaucracy, it all continues like a freight train regardless of who is on the throttle.

    Now if government was limited to what it is capable of performing well we may have a different story. And yet even then the 4 year cycles would seem far less disruptive since a far less portion of life would be affected.

  296. @Colin Wright

    On the other hand, I don’t see indiscriminately vilifying it as particularly accurate either.

    There is nothing indiscriminate and nothing vilifying either about my statements.

    In fact, I am in favor of Ellen Brown’s financial reporting on the Chinese government giving their people a break while shunting them into the areas that they want to emphasize, which is just the same as the itemized deductions offered to Americans by the US Government.

    Only the Chinese are far more effective and far more flexible. They do have a better idea than the stolid nonsense in the West.

    I do not have the slightest idea what you are talking about with Sweden, a country being destroyed by radical feminists. Sweden has nothing to do with this discussion. Leave it out.

    Furthermore, I am not talking about China’s financial policy/situation. I am talking about China’s policy on human innovation, which China is quashing because that is what China has been doing for like 700 years.

    Old senile fools like Fred love China. It is so clean. It is so efficient.

    This takes us back to 1933. It was so clean. It was so efficient. And the trains. They ran on time.

    Within in living memory, they were still mired in actual, dire physical poverty and living under an often vicious dictatorship given to wholesale repression of just about everybody.

    So they ended the first part and kept the 2nd part. The Chinese are stupid smart. You can’t control people that way unless you want to freeze your society. If you freeze your society you have no innovation. If you have no innovation you have a dead society. If you have a dead society, you have a Dark Age.

    Chinese are stupid. But they have been stupid for centuries. This is no surprise. But it is a surprise that it is not acknowledged and trumpeted 24/7.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
    , @Colin Wright
  297. anon[454] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Just about right as I read the Rand Foundation just came out with a paper stating that the 1% have stolen $50 trillion from the working class over the last 45 years.which means of course that the 1% don’t give two shits about the American working class nor the country itself.!!!

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  298. d dan says:
    @anon4real

    I see. Now I understand why you said you couldn’t make money in China. First advice: stop blaming and attacking the other party at the first point of disagreement, like “you truly are dense”, “simplistic mind”, “confused mess”, “more insecurity”, “very, very insecure person”, “obtuse gibber-gabber,”… or “you are a Chinese” (so?), etc. You appear extremely rude and unpleasant to work with.

    “Your grasp of the English language is not sufficient for you to distinguish a critique against China (which is what you seem to think I’m conveying) vs. a critique of another poster’s point that foreigners can make a lot of money in China.”

    Second advice, listen carefully what the other party says. Yes, my main point is to rebut your idea that foreign can NOT make money in China. Read my comment again.

    “Can you give me the name of a foreigner who came to China and then became successful as an entrepreneur … ?”

    I personally know at least 3 foreigners who make tons of money in China. One has Ph.D. in hard science from MIT. The second one works in semiconductor industry (guess why?). The third one runs an import/export company. But don’t take my words only. Look at these other 5 very successful foreigners:

    https://www.inkstonenews.com/business/how-make-millions-china-even-if-youre-not-chinese/article/3032369

    Or entrepreneur turns Internet blogger like:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXx8BpaMS4c&pp=QAA%3D

    I am very sure it is easy to find other examples if you care to look. But do you?

    “… excluding exceptional cases like a Canadian who learns fluent Chinese and goes on to become a cross-talk performer”

    Why exclude “exceptional cases”? Isn’t this exactly the point? And you think foreigners can make lots of money if they decide not to learn English in America? So, that would link to my final advice, which I allude to in my original comment: you need to provide exceptional services and skills that fits the needs of the Chinese market.

    All 3 are friendly advice – but I suspect you won’t take them easily.

  299. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Justsaying

    When China

    For these yellow mongrels

    I realize the author of the post was not saying this, he was merely mocking the tone of Cold War anti-Communists (actually anti-non-whites er . . . uhm . . . oh I’ll just call ’em what they were – “racists”).

    But, the above statement is inaccurate. There is nothing racially “mongrel” about China, a thoroughly mono-racial, mono-cultural group. Many ethnicities, yes. Han, Mongol, Manchu. Tibetan, Turkic.

    But one identifiable race. Asians, all of them.

    So Yellow – most certainly.

    But “MONGREL”? as in composed of many “races”? That absolutely cannot be referring to the Chinese. No way.

    • Replies: @Daemon
  300. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    By my way of thinking, the West’s venal elites seem to be a reflection of the more competitive nature of Europeans both individually and in their nation states…The elite in the West (Wall Street and the corporate/ political nexus (as VP, Biden went there with his son, who got a billion of Chinese money to invest) were benefiting from globalised interdependent hypercapitalism, and those without a college degree were not. So I don’t think the economic disengagement (Huawei, TickTock) and rising military tension between the US and China is a top down thing.

    It is mainly a top down thing, precisely for the reason you describe here.

    Competitive, individualist elites care about relative, not absolute, status. China’s continuing rise is not threatening the absolute figures in their bank accounts, but it is beginning to threaten their relative status as top dogs on the global stage. Status wise, being a Wall St., Silicon Valley, US government or foreign policy establishment elite has meant being on the top in relative status in the world by virtue of the US being on top in the world.

    US elites were and are fine with China being a low cost manufacturing destination for them that increased their absolute wealth and maintained their relative status. But Chinese competition is now threatening their relative status. China’s attempt to move up the value chain and strengthen its state political, diplomatic, military power threatens US elites’ relative status. Wealthy individual Chinese buying desirable property and engaging in luxury consumption in the US threatens their relative status. Wealthy and or ambitious Chinese students compete with US elite children for limited coveted spots at elite US universities and careers. The extreme lengths that US upper middle/upper class elite parents go to in order to get their children spots at elite universities as revealed in the recent college admissions scandals reveal their intense desire and willingness to cling to their relative status and the pressures on it from Chinese competition. Silicon Valley has enjoyed a monopoly on the global tech sector with negligible competition from Europe and Japan. China’s recent and increasing success and competition in this sector through companies like Huawei and TikTok have distressed many Silicon Valley elites.

    The working and lower class is inherently wary and hostile to China simply by virtue of it being an alien race and civilization. China’s success or competition does not have much of an effect on these reflexively hostile and jingoistic attitudes. China could be poor, autarkic, with no trade with the US, like North Korea, and the working/lower class would still be hostile to it all the same. Because of adherence to PC and more cosmopolitan norms, contemporary US elites cannot express or frame their attitudes to China in basic racial or civilizational terms.

    Another aspect to US elite behavior, besides differences in individualism vs. collectivism, is that the US population is much more heterogeneous, which results in less solidarity and greater spiteful behavior.

    • Agree: Daemon, Cho Seung-Hui
    • Replies: @Cho Seung-Hui
  301. Thanks Fred for a great column. We are taught to hate and so much is directed elsewhere when we should be looking at ourselves. The world is being held hostage to an unconscionable tyranny.

  302. I blame antebellum slave owners. The USA made the HUGE mistake of importing sub saharans instead of strictly using the indigenous ameri-indians for slavery. Now we’re stuck w/ violent “victims”. Courtesy of being saddled w/ this diversity plague along w/ their loony leftist alabaster apologist enablers the USA is spinning around the drain. China sounds like a great place to retire to but I’ll probably stick w/ Costa Rica.

    • Replies: @GeneralRipper
    , @Malla
  303. Vidi says:

    What part of “China was printing books no later than 868 AD, which is centuries before Gutenberg was born” do you not understand?

    Clarification: “China started printing books no later than 868 AD…”

  304. @Astuteobservor II

    You’re an incorrigible moron. No one wants a hot war let alone a cold one. You bragged about how your beloved China would totally annihilate India. And you think we would stay on the sidelines and let a rabid country like China run roughshod. Stop taking fentanyl.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  305. @Bombercommand

    Why do every indian chest thumb before thinking?
    It is bizzarre how you think an Indian blockade of Chinese shipping is a given. If Indian Navy is on par with the Chinese one I would understand.

    Go read about Chinese warships of the last 10 years. This is why I am super confident of my opinion.

    Why do you think india would 100% lose the land war and be able to win the naval one? It is so bizzarre. Judging by you dodge of the question, you have no plans if your blockade fails.

    And yes, I let your retarded attacks slide n just talk about the issues.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  306. Patricus says:
    @Vidi

    Is there a single invention, such as the printing press, that single handedly advanced science, engineering and general civilizational advance? There were an avalanche of developments in the west. Not so much elsewhere. That doesn’t make westerners superior humans. They went through centuries of dark ages when they were among the planet’s dummies. At one point fewer than 1% had any literacy at all. There were many reasons why the west developed. Some was simple serendipity. Those of us westerners would love to claim Gallileo, Kepler, Newton, etc. unfortunately we should also own the barbaric westerners who ate one another.

  307. @anon

    A lot of the 1% are professionals like docs n lawyers.

    It really should be the top 0.1% to 0.01%.

  308. @God's Fool

    Retard, anyone can make predictions. That was mine. And yes retard, cold war proves that USA would sit out a war between India and China. As that would be a godsend to USA if China gets into a hot war with India. Surprise mother fucker. USA actually benefits.

    If there is a god, he would stick you back into your mother’s womb and kill your mother right after.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
    , @Malla
  309. @Jeff Stryker

    I’ve been overseas for 20 years of my 46 and the US somehow swirled down the toilet about 2o years ago.

    Have I told you lately that we’re glad you’re long gone, Jeff?

    It’s true. Same to all the expats.

    Fuck off.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  310. @cosMICjester

    I blame antebellum slave owners.

    Kudos to you, sir. It takes a lot of courage to do that.

    You’re really going against the grain with that viewpoint, my friend.

    Why, that’s almost as bold a stance as condemning those goddamn Nazis…lol

    • Replies: @cosMICjester
  311. GammaRay says:
    @anon

    Do you know what “specific” means? I can send you a link to a tutorial about how to Google the meaning of words, if you’d like. You do realize that people on Unz are anonymous personalities, right?

    oh ok I see, you’re asking specific as in a specific individual or personality, not as in a specific instance. Sorry, my original point was written so clearly and the context in which it was meant to be understood was outlined so precisely that I wasnt aware that there could be people out there who would be capable of misunderstanding the original point so badly, alas it looks like I was mistaken.

    The problem here is that you’ve fundamentally misunderstood what I was claiming, you’re attributing arguments to me which I never made. I never claimed that White Nationalist Inc was against china, my claim was always that white nationalists (all lower cases) seemed to be against china in my experience. What I was claiming and what you think I was claiming are two completely different things. How did you misunderstand the original point so badly? You can actually see the original thrust of my post in the entirety of the paragraph that you quoted me from:

    the majority of china-haters in the comments section of this article are what I would consider white nationalists/alt-righters etc etc. Im sorry but “white nationalism” isnt some exclusive club. You dont gatekeep this “club” although its clear that you have delusions that you do lol. The definition I gave of white nationalists as I was using it was very accommodating and I was clearly implying that the definition I was using was both my subjective nomenclature and also non-exclusive. Perhaps white nationalist means something different to you, I dont know. My definition is below:

    I dont know how much more clear I could have made it, I was always upfront about the subjectivity and non-exclusivity of the definition of white nationalist that I was using, at no point was I claiming to be speaking about white nationalists using an authoritative, objective, “official” definition (not that one really exists anyways). Do you understand how badly you’ve misunderstood the original point now?

    Yeah, that’s a pretty broad definition. Basically, a “white nationalist” is anyone whom you want to be a white nationalist. Pretty tautological if you ask me. And convenient for making your non-argument. It allows you to even say that all white people basically dislike China (if your logic is taken to its logical conclusion), which might very well be your agenda. It’s no wonder you can’t name a specific person who fits your profile and must resort to using “catchall terms” and “vague” terminology that allows you to paint with a broad brush and make assertions without evidence.

    lol. its unbelievable how contorted your mindset is about this. Yeah no shit its a pretty broad definition, that’s the entire point you dingus. I was very clear about this from the get-go. You’ve been getting mega butthurt because you think im going out of my way to tarnish your precious WN brandname when really the truth is that I was just using white nationalist as a generic, disposable term. Amazing how much you care about something so insignificant. I dont even understand how you go from using white nationalist (as I defined it) to suddenly claiming that it could be used to apply to all white people. Is your victimization complex this severe??

    The truth is that there’s a variety of opinions regarding china when it comes to white nationalists. Most white nationalists ive encountered seem to support japan and be against china.

    Again, examples please? I won’t get my hopes up… More sweeping generalizations and unsupported assertions.

    Uh…what you said would be true if I was trying to objectively claim something, however I was always upfront from the very beginning that what I was claiming was based on my own personal experiences. Newsflash, if someone is offering their own (subjective) experiences then by definition what they say cant be accused of being sweeping generalizations and unsupported assertions. Do you really have this hard of a time understanding the difference between someone putting forth arguments intended to be understood as objective and someone putting forth claims that are meant to be understood as subjective/based on personal experience? Ive always been upfront about this, your criticisms are completely offbase

    I underestimated the degree to which you suffer from autism apparently. Pardon me.

    well, the fact that you fundamentally misstated my original argument in an extremely significant way is pretty important IMO. Its not autism when I point out a gaping flaw in the arguments you choose to bring out.

    He probably is. Do I care? What’s funny is how you selectively ignored specific people I mentioned (i.e. Keith Woods) who have praised China and Red Ice (which has invited both Chinese and Japanese nationalists on their show and expressed mutual sympathy for each other’s causes). You even ignored the fact that Hitler declared both Chinese and Japanese honorary Aryans (LOL).

    lol, you were the one who was complaining that feds could be impersonating white nationalists on the internet and then you go ahead and use the spook richard spencer as an example of a REAL white nationalist LOL

    Personally, I don’t care what makes a real “white nationalist.” I don’t care about “white nationalists.” That’s why I asked you to name a specific person.

    yeah…you obviously do bud

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @anon
  312. gavishti says:
    @Bombercommand

    Many people as well as countries suffer from the problem of misunderestimation of the others potential.

    China is an age old civilization with a depth of thought on all aspects of life, including the art of warfare. Presently it wishes to show off it’s military might, with India being a worthy candidate, in order to Kill the chicken to scare the monkey [ (杀鸡儆猴, lit. kill chicken scare monkey) is an old Chinese idiom. It refers to making an example out of someone in order to threaten others ].

    China may be strong militarily as far as technological and numerical aspects go. But, it cannot defeat India in the high mountains through conventional warfare. In order gain total control of the Pangong Tso lake it has to employ its Air Force along with its missile and rocket contingent. Once it does that it will become an open season for wanton destruction, for as you rightly stated, both countries are nuclear powers.

    It is quite sad to see two old civilization’s fight against one another, when everything points to their prospering together.

    ॐ सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिनः।
    सर्वे सन्तु निरामयाः।
    सर्वे भद्राणि पश्यन्तु।
    मा कश्चित् दुःख भाग्भवेत्॥
    ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः॥

    May all be prosperous and happy
    May all be free from illness
    May all see what is spiritually uplifting
    May no one suffer
    Om peace, peace, peace 🙏

  313. @Astuteobservor II

    Your drug induced rant tells me you’re unstable at best and in critical need for immediate mental counseling at the least. And there is no God for moronic “bragfarts” like you. Unlike me, you were a prime candidate for abortion but alas, the harlot that gave birth to you likes mongloid offspring to get her through her miserable life. Remember Dick, it’s about preserving America and not about the pissing contest between India and China. Now get lost!

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  314. GammaRay says:
    @restless94110

    Furthermore, I am not talking about China’s financial policy/situation. I am talking about China’s policy on human innovation, which China is quashing because that is what China has been doing for like 700 years.

    your problem is that you care too much. What does any of this have to do with you (a presumably white person)? Oh no the chinese are purportedly quashing their own innovation! In any case its their loss not yours, Its funny how hard you’re trying to concern troll though. Did it ever occur to you that the world is big enough for both “robotic” chinese people and “super creative” westerners? Im puzzled at how you seem to believe that the existence of a non-innovative culture is somehow an existential threat to your enlightened western super eccentricity and creativity. I dont really understand what the problem is with different races being well, different you know. Personally I find it kind of neat

    oh and another aspect youre missing is the fact that ingrained cultural traits/outlooks can be advantageous in some situations and disadvantageous in other situations. Its an oversimplification to assume that “eccentric and creative” is advantageous in every single situation. Its pretty obvious that being eccentric and creative (or rather having the various constellation of personality traits that constitute what we understand as eccentric and creative) has been maladapative in the west starting from around the 1960s or so. It strongly appears that the western infatuation with destructive abstract ideologies correlates with the high open-mindedness and novelty seeking orientation of the west. China OTOH is not immune from being impacted by destructive ideologies, but the chinese are not infatuated with abstractions in the same way or to the same degree that westerners seem to be, therefore the nature and kind of destructive ideologies that can take root in china are of a different sort and run a different course. Truly its a mistake to try to make binary claims when it comes to stuff like this, reality is much much more complicated and multifactorial than what you’re acknowledging.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  315. @GeneralRipper

    There’s a viewpoint circulating that a certain insidious tribe was behind the importation of these eggplants whether or not this is true I wouldn’t put it passed em. The main point I was trying to make was if we had stuck w/ enslaving Tonto we wouldn’t be stuck w/ these angry violent low IQ primitives.

    The wife’s family is from 98% white Elk county PA. There’s been 2 murders in 100 years one was done by a transient. Outside of the local druggies crime is low. Super walmart shoplifters get their name in the paper. If there was a modern day Mayberry inhabited by a bunch of heavily armed camo wearing blue collar folks it’s there. Remember when California was the home of the Beach boys, Nixon & Reagan?? The USA & the west is circling the drain thank the stars I’ll hopefully be dead before it collapses. WHO KNOWS??

  316. @Astuteobservor II

    I am not East Indian, I am an American of West European descent. I never stated that “india[sic]would 100% lose the land war”. I stated that because of long preparation, and aggressive intent(the Five Fingers of Tibet policy), China presently holds an advantage, but not an overwhelming one. There is no intelligence available to me regarding how India assesses its capability to deal with a Chinese attack. It is axiomatic in war that one does not confront an adversary’s strength, but his weakness, and you confront using your strength. India has a very good Navy, and an excellent position on the Indian Ocean. China’s weakness is maritime resource flow through the Strait of Malacca. India’s Navy would obviously not be involved in a conflict in the Himalayas, but would be eager to do its part for the nation. A naval blockade of Chinese merchant shipping would be a simple matter, and devastatingly effective. The Indian Navy is certainly “on par”, and then some with the Chinese Navy. India has operated aircraft carriers for 40 years, meanwhile Liaoning and Shandong are a joke. I asked you to provide a detailed plan of how the Chinese Navy would break that blockade. That plan would neccesarily entail control of the Strait of Malacca plus operating a naval task force in the Indian Ocean powerful enough to sink the Indian Navy. A very tall order. So far you have provided none. I am asking again. Give it a go.

  317. @gavishti

    You Indians are a bunch of silly buggers. Your one neighbor wants to kick your ass and all you come up with “Om peace, peace, peace” … what’s wrong with you people? Even if China was the only power in the world, you can disrupt their whole being by becoming their true nemesis. Chinese love China bit they love money more and anything that would disrupt cash flows is harmful to them. There are myriad ways of messing their wicked plans but not being wishy washy one of them. You can be that fly in the great Chinese ointment. You have nothing to lose and they do. Get busy!

    • Troll: d dan
  318. d dan says:
    @gavishti

    “Presently it wishes to show off it’s military might, with India being a worthy candidate, in order to Kill the chicken to scare the monkey…”

    You are mistaken, like so many Indians and so many westerners that think China wants war, China is aggressive, China wants to show off its military might, etc.

    Take for instances, the following factual examples, and explain what is the most likely motivation behind Chinese moves:

    1. After the Jun 15 conflict when 20 Indians died, China kept low profile and didn’t release her casualty figure. Why? (because China wants to de-escalate the war rhetoric and let both sides cool down).

    2. After the negotiated disengagement, China retreated 2 km from the Line of Actual Control (LAC) when India only retreated 1.5 km from the LAC. Why? (because China feels disengagement is very important to avoid war).

    3. Going further back to the 1962 war. After soundly defeated India, China unilaterally retreated to its original LAC before the war. Why? (because China wanted to show India its sincerity for peace and wish for negotiation to settle the disputes).

    4. Looking into broader examples. China has land borders with 14 countries – the most number in the world (Russia has 13). Since the founding of PRC, China settled all the disputes through negotiations with 12, except India/Bhutan. Often time, China gave up large track of lands, with concessions to even its weakest neighbors like Laos, Nepal, Myanmar, etc. Why? Why do you think China is not interested in peaceful resolution with India?

    Of course, I am sure you still can complain why didn’t China do more things like A, B, C for India, or why is China still insist on doing X, Y, Z against Indian’ wishes. Well, these are called disputes, and would exactly require negotiations.

    “It is quite sad to see two old civilization’s fight against one another, when everything points to their prospering together.”

    If you understand Chinese culture and strategy, they are mostly defensive (e.g. the Great Wall). Ancient Chinese strategists (including Sun Tzu) counselled that war was the last resort, and inability to prevent war is itself a failure of the leadership of a country.

    India should reciprocate China with small, incremental and patient steps and gestures to generate the positive momentum with ultimate aim to totally settle the border dispute through negotiations.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @gavishti
    , @anon
    , @showmethereal
  319. Agbars says:
    @Badger Down

    Not too sure about all the anti-Semitic stuff you’re peddling there, Badger, but Fred, reflexively, blames his former homeland for just about all of the ills troubling the world. Nothing America has done to China approaches the depravity of the Rape of Nanking and other Japanese atrocities committed during their occupation. Fred knows this, I assume, he just hopes his readers don’t.

  320. Agbars says:
    @alfred

    In your free time Al, try Googling the Rape of Nanking.

    • Replies: @Malla
  321. @GammaRay

    I am trying to understand: you have appointed yourself as my personal psychotherapist?

    While I am flattered, I just immediately want to tell you to fuck off.

    I’m not interested in your analysis of my psychological state. That’s a straw man bunch of bullshit.

    Sorry, Doctor Demento, after you started your psycho and I do mean psycho analysis, it was so preposterous and off putting that I could not read a word out of your lying mouth after that.

    Are you a Chinese citizen? Are you a cretin? Are you a fool?

    I can’t tell. But it’s obvious you are one or all three.

    But truth to tell? I don’t want to know anything more about you. Nothing you say is real.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @GammaRay
  322. Anon[353] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bombercommand

    “India has operated aircraft carriers for 40 years, …”

    China would just put some cows in the water, and that would stop the Indians.

    Under the cows would be some subs. Over the cows would be some missiles raining down.

    After the Falklands, will anyone seriously tout naval power? A few missiles and it’s all over.

    Blocking the Malacca would be an act of war to more than just China, and so India would proly not go there.

  323. Ron Unz says:
    @GammaRay

    my claim was always that white nationalists (all lower cases) seemed to be against china in my experience.

    I’m pretty skeptical of that claim as well. It’s important to distinguish between “White Nationalists” and the much more typical FoxNews-aligned rightwingers or Neocons. Obviously, those groups are ferociously hostile towards China, but the WNs strongly oppose them on all sorts of other issues. Ignorant grassroots racialists also dislike China, but I don’t know if they’d be considered WNs.

    Lots of the “Alt-Lite” rightwing Trump backers like Alex Jones are very hostile to China, but they’re obviously not WNs. Same for all the leading Neocons or leaders of the Christian Right.

    Probably the best means of objectively resolving this question is just to make a list of 20-30 of the most prominent WNs, and decide where they stand. My impression would be that more than half would generally be friendly towards China, perhaps another 30% neutral or equivocal, and less than 20% clearly hostile.

    Part of the problem is that the MSM constantly denounces all rightwingers as being WNs, including Trump and lots of his top supporters, but that’s just the ridiculous MSM.

    • Agree: Malla
    • Replies: @GammaRay
  324. denk says:
    @Bombercommand

    China has proved itself to be a crude, hamfisted, arrogant actor on the world stage and India is being backed into a corner

    Bomber,
    You really surpass yourself with this one.

    Ever heard of the QUAD ?

    In fact, INdia, Oz, Jp, FUKUS are all backed into a corner by the arrogant fire spitting dragon.

    Imagine, China backing you into a corner across the Pacific ocean,
    no mean feat that.

    How are you gonna contain the chicoms that way ?

    hehehhehe

    PS
    Any comment to my reply to
    CIAgent76 ?

  325. gavishti says:
    @d dan

    Do you even read the Global Times, if so how can you state that China doesn’t to show off its might ?
    As of today China has claimed the territories of many of its neighbors and also acted upon it, be they Nepal, Laos, Myanmar etc.

    After all China is the Middle Kingdom between heaven and earth, so as per this assertion, the rest of the peoples and countries of the world are inconsequential and should pay tribute to China.

    Your paragraph ‘2’ is just your conjecture, please share any supporting articles or documents.

    Your list of territorial claims made by China is mainly supportive of its land based neighbors. What about the ‘ nine dash line’?
    Please don’t forget that China itself has faced colonial oppressions, so why is China trying to repeat them now that it has become a great power. After all power can be asserted in many forms and mere formalities cannot be an impediment to it. Debt traps is a very old game which is presently being utilized by China with all impunity.

    I haven’t claimed that China is not a world power or that its not technologically and economically superior to India, so as the big brother it is their bounden duty to take the first steps towards peace and general wellbeing of its entire neighborhood. Otherwise, we poor Indians are capable enough to rise to the task of Chinese bullying.

    ‘Tis best to weigh the enemy more mighty than he seems.
    – William Shakespeare

    He who conquers others is strong; He who conquers himself is mighty.
    – Lao Tzu

    • Replies: @d dan
  326. anon[256] • Disclaimer says:
    @GammaRay

    Still can’t give a specific example, huh? Even Ron Unz has to tell you to make a list of 20 to 30. LOL!

  327. denk says:
    @restless94110

    Nothing you say is real.

    I recommend the following as quote of the year.

    Gammaray

    it completely baffles me how people can invert reality this badly**

    Whether you call it nationalists, WN, white supremacists, or just plain lying pos…[1]
    The seemingly inexhaustible number of Pompass clones is truly amazing.

    LIke I say, its the people, stupid.

    PS
    with due respect to the 5% thinking yanks.

    [1]
    Assuming you’r a newbie , check out my answers to CIAgent76 and bombercommand.

    • Troll: GeneralRipper
  328. d dan says:
    @Bombercommand

    “A naval blockade of Chinese merchant shipping would be a simple matter, and devastatingly effective. “

    No, naval blockade is not simple. For a naval blockade to affect the economy of a country, it has to last long enough, and for it to affect the war machine, it has to last even longer (because country will always prioritize resources for the military during wartime). Look at past wars to see the patterns.

    India lacks the coverage to blockade the vast Ocean (e.g. there are multiple points to enter Indian Ocean from the east without going through Malacca Strait – look at the map). Furthermore, China produces sufficient amount of oil for its war machines, and have strategic reserves and capacity to import over land from Russia, Central Asia, Iran, to import over sea lanes from non-Indian Ocean sources, e.g. ASEAN, South and Central America, Canada or even US. Haha, don’t be surprise, US will sell helicopters and missiles to India and sell oil to China. Same for Russia. China needs only raw materials, and has multiple sources. India needs expensive, specific imports of military hardware, and has only limited sources because of technical compatibility and training requirements. In a war of attrition, it is clear which country can last longer.

    Finally, it would be easier for China to take over New Delhi long before Indian Navy could hold on to all the choke points – if they ever could – and to hold those choke points long enough to have an economic effect, and even longer period to have an military effect.

    “The Indian Navy is certainly “on par”, and then some with the Chinese Navy. “

    Firstly, in terms of pure hardware quantity, Chinese navy outnumbers Indian navy in every categories of war ships, weapon systems and aircrafts. Secondly, in technologies, training, discipline, morale and almost all intangible matrix, Indian won’t stand any chance. Thirdly, you haven’t counted China’s military and resupply base and ports in Africa and the region. Finally, China won’t make this into a pure naval battle. Look at the map to see how much DF26 can cover in Indian Ocean:

    Note this comment is not meant to show that China is superior or better than India. This is to discourage India from considering war as a solution to settle the disputes.

    • Agree: GreatSocialist
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @gavishti
  329. @God's Fool

    Why do your retarded ass keep on talking about shit you have no idea about. Preserving America by getting involve in a total war of China vs India?

    Are you that fucking stupid?

    Keep on flailing about like a retard, it is entertaining me.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  330. @restless94110

    [I did not realize you wrote…]
    .
    You are incapable of realising anything.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  331. @gavishti

    Did you read the God’s shit comment? That is the kind of guys that wants India to go to war with China.

    He wants you Indians to die to slow China’s growth.

    That is how much your lives are worth to them. Common fodders. Road bumps.

  332. @Bombercommand

    Why would I bother though? Because the notion of an Indian blockade is so utterly ridiculous.

    Your question is like asking me, an American to come up with a detailed naval plan in this comments section to show you how USA would break out of a Chinese naval blockade of America.

    Do you see how ridiculous that is?

    That is how ridiculous your question, your demand is, about how China can break an Indian blockade.

    40 years of operating air craft carriers? You mean the same carrier that is basically a floating scrap metal?

    And please, if you are white European, I would eat my hat. You are 100% Indian. You are way too nationalistic. And the lack of paragraphs = 100% Indian. Sorry for the stereotype. 😂

    • Agree: GreatSocialist
  333. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    Ancient Chinese strategists (including Sun Tzu) counselled that war was the last resort, and inability to prevent war is itself a failure of the leadership of a country.

    Some cultures might see it as a sign of weakness. The 1962 border war with India was a good example of that. Urgently trying to avoid a military conflict, China sent its best diplomats – Premier Zhou En Lai and Vice Premier Chen Yi – to India to meet with Nehru and other Indian officials. Nehru and Zhou were friends. Nehru refused to negotiate at all but at least treated Zhou with respect. Other Indian officials weren’t so restrained; they proceeded to insult Zhou and Chen, and essentially telling them war was the only way to resolve the dispute and how the Indian military would annihilate the Chinese military. Well, you know how it turned out.

  334. Malla says:
    @Agbars

    Which is controversial as the Holohoax. There is a possibility it was hyped up WW2 propaganda.

    • Replies: @Agbars
  335. denk says:
    @anon

    China is an autocratic , amoral hellhole that together with Islam will destroy civilization

    kiddo,
    Meet your founding fathers

    PS
    On second thought,
    How’s the smog in Delhi ?

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  336. @restless94110

    ‘Chinese are stupid. But they have been stupid for centuries. This is no surprise. But it is a surprise that it is not acknowledged and trumpeted 24/7.’

    I think you need to take the long view. If we look at the world in — say — the fifteenth century, the leading civilization would be China.

    Hands down. In just about every respect.

    So I don’t think Chinese are ‘stupid.’ I think we were way ahead for a while, but now they are catching up.

    An intelligent posture is not to deny Chinese ability and potential, but to accept it, and plan accordingly. To do otherwise is to repeat the mistake the Chinese themselves made two hundred years ago, and keep reassuring ourselves of our eternal and unassailable superiority while they eat us for lunch.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  337. Malla says:
    @d dan

    Unfortunately, the Indian deep State are goin a chestthumpin again. Just recently I was watching the interview by a Pakistani host of an Indian defence analyst (linked well to the Indian deep State) and wot woz he sayin.
    The Indian defence analyst waz sayin “The Chinese army is a show toy army which has no history of combat. China has won only one war i.e. with India in 1962 but in 1967 India gave those Chinese imperialists a bloody nose.”
    I woz like “wait what? What about the Korean War? Lets forget everything else, what about the Korean War?”
    Most Indians even defense analysts are really ignorant of history aor purposefully hide history. The average Indian on the street, even the average Indian educated Indian knows a highly propagandised version of history. Only about 0.00001% may have even heard of the Korean war.
    This is exactly what happened in 1962. The Govt and the idiotic population was chest thumping and expected imminent victory. The defeat was a kind of national shock from which the nation never recovered. Conspiracy theories abound, my history teacher told me (not joking) “The Chinese Govt was concerned about high Chinese population to send them to our brave soldiers to be culled. We glad-fully did the deed!!!” and of course the “Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai and sneaky backstab” B.S. propaganda.
    The thing is some Indians even consider the Chinese as a posh pussyboy race unlike the tough macho son of the soil types desis. The think of the same with Whites too and other Yellows too. When the Brits came, many local powers underestimated their marital prowess, considered them a “posh show off fakes who could not stand against macho son of the soil browns”, there was a lot of chestthumpin in the early days and later shock of defeat. This is nothing new.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @KA
  338. Of course the sordid Trump regime would like India to fight militarily with China, because the pussy-scared Trump regime doesn’t have the balls to start a war with China.

    Their style is to behave like a jilted psycho girlfriend, forever making false accusations and sniping at China while Great China advances mightily ahead.

    The sordid Trump regime couldn’t even win in a divorce court, don’t talk about the international arena.

    Just look at how degenerate Donny finally bent over n allowed his ass to be reamed in the TikTok deal. So pussy-scared at making 100 million TikTok users vote against him that he quickly agrees to a no-deal between Oracle, Walmart and Bytedance that effectively changes nothing.

    And best of all is watching this fat orange ape say that, “it’s a shame that 200,000 people died from Covid”. Like it’s some kind of gameshow with points. He obviously doesn’t give a shit about the dead and their families and friends. He’s only worried about how it makes him look bad.

    And then, “I give myself an A+ for my covid response”.

    And, “Our performance in managing the covid was great.”

    How shameful for America to have a President like this. Is it possible for America to go any lower?

    • Agree: Harold Smith
  339. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m just here to warn other commenters that the Godfree Roberts Comm-ent-tards will be on here soon to praise Chairman Mao

    Why is it mandatory for fuck tards to scream ‘Mao the murderer’ in every thread and…
    who appoint you as net nanny ?

    Who started it anyway?
    If you cant stand the heat, get outta the kitchen.

    https://www.unz.com/article/poverty-and-inequality-in-china/#comment-4174724

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  340. Daemon says:
    @Anonymous

    He’s using the term mongrel to mean ‘degenerate’ rather than impure.

  341. Malla says:
    @yakushimaru

    Well, that is the opinion of Mr. Raffaello Urbani (the host of the video Post 64 on this page). If you check his channel you would know he has a very deep knowledge of History and warfare of the entire World. If you chaek out that video (Mongols Vs Knights) from 20:27 minutes is that even if Ogedei Khan had not died and the Mongols invading Europe had not gone back for the election of the next great Khan, they would have still found conquering Western Europe much more difficult. Indeed it is historical facts that even before the death of the Great Khan, the moment the Mongols start seeing the more advanced fortified stone masonry castles of Western Europe, they just stop. They stop invading. In those days, Eastern Europe and Hungary had less castes but Germany had tens of thousands of castles. The Mongols may have been unbeatable in field warfare, they would not have been able to cope with siege warfare on a land with such large numbers of castles. Indeed the Mongols knew the (at that period of time in history) the more powerful powers in Europe was in the West of Europe and it would have taken a lot of time and rearrangement of the Mongol army to attain their dream of an Empire till the Atlantic.
    Now my point and not Mr Urbani, I am adding on to his point is that even if the Mongols had acess to Chinese and Persian Engineers, they would have found dealing with the castle ridden landscape of Western Europe in countries such as Germany, France, Italian area, England etc… difficult. Also the terrain was much more different from the Eastern part of Europe including Hungary with more woodlands and lessor open places in which the Mongols were more comfortable. The Mongols faced a similar problem with terrain down south in their invasion of Dai Viet Kingdom(Vietnam) in their attempt to conquer Southern Song China.

    Maybe by the time the Turks came to Constantinople, the siege technology of Central Asians had increased. Also even if Arabs and Middle Easterners built great forts, the truth is that Western Europeans were far ahead in this technology of fortified castles.
    In the video below, “Was Medieval Islam more advanced than the Christian West’ by “Real Crusades History” channel,

    the video analysis comes to the conclusion that in technology and civilization during the time of the Crusades, Europeans were superior to the Arabs/Middle Easterners in some technologies while the Arabs/Middle Easterners were ahead in others, overall both were equally matched (contrary to modern ((Jeu)) propaganda). Both were more or less equal in civilizational stage and both learnt from each other during the Crusades/Jihad. However one of technologies, Europeans had an upper hand over the Arabs/Middle Easterners was fortified Castle technology. At 3:12 minutes in the above video, prior to the arrival to the arrival of Crusaders, Castle and siege technology in the Middle East was much more simple. The European Crusaders introduced elaborate fortified Castle technologies which helped them hold huge territories even if they had numerical disadvantage with the Muslims.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  342. Malla says:
    @cosMICjester

    Ummmm.. I read somewhere that the Native Americans of North America did not make great slaves, they were just too proud and defiant unlike the Africans of that period. Some White guy remarked (do not remember who), “The Negro submitted and survived, the the Indian (feather) resisted and perished”
    What is not known to many is that many Native Americans themselves owned black slaves.

  343. Malla says:
    @gavishti

    You seem to have married white and well.

    You are assuming nonsense. I am single but engaged to a fellow Hindu Indian but a Rajputni.

    Congratulations, and thank you for denigrating India and Indians for they are such a downtrodden Race with no achievements at all to think of.

    My post is nothing of this sort. It is about the historical fact that Europeans in generl have always been more appreciative of non European civilizations, been fair in their impression of non European civilizations than any other people in the World. The only people who come close in such honesty are some Islamic scholars (unlike the average Muslims) like Ibn Khaldun, Ibn Battuta, Al Beruni etc… or Persiao-Indians aristocrats like Mirza Abu Taleb Khan.

    • Agree: GeneralRipper
  344. @denk

    [How’s the smog in Delhi ?]
    .
    Only a couple of years ago, many Indian, and western, commentators laughed about the smog in Beijing and other big Chinese cities.
    .
    Things are changing fast.

    • Replies: @denk
  345. @anon

    [… amoral hellhole that together with Islam will destroy civilization]
    .
    It appears Hinduism and Islam are pretty much alike– but I admit that it is mostly for the better, as far as preserving different human civilisations is concerned:
    .
    “We must acknowledge that a tsunami of de-westernisation is under way. Even more significantly, when Mr Erdogan announces the conversion of the Hagia Sophia to a mosque and Mr Modi resurrects a long-lost Hindu temple on a contested religious site, they are signalling a desire to return to pre-western cultural roots.”
    .
    .
    The west should heed Napoleon’s advice and let China sleep
    The next phase of western policy demands a complete reboot of its dealings with the Communist party

    Kishore Mahbubani

    September 20, 2020

    [MORE]

    Two decades into the 21st century, the main challenge it holds for the west has become clear: the return of China to centre stage. After managing phase 1 of China’s reform well from 1980 to 2020 — a period in which China fought no wars — the west is setting itself up for failure in phase 2.

    It is a failure resulting from three flawed assumptions. The first — and most deeply embedded in western minds — is that China cannot possibly be a good partner as long as it is ruled by the Chinese Communist party. Communism was supposed to have been swept into the dustbin of history after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the late 1980s. So, the argument goes, how can the world work with an oppressive party that rules against the wisdom of the Chinese people?

    Yet there is plenty of evidence to suggest most Chinese people do not perceive the CCP to be oppressive. In fact the latest Edelman Trust Barometer report suggests that support for the Chinese government is among the highest in the world. A Chinese-American psychology researcher from Stanford University, Jean Fan, observed after visiting the country in 2019 that “China is changing . . . fast, in a way that is almost incomprehensible without seeing it in person. In contrast to America’s stagnation, China’s culture, self-concept and morale are being transformed at a rapid pace — mostly for the better.”

    Despite all this, few western minds can escape from the second flawed assumption: even if most Chinese people are happy with the Communist party, they and the rest of the world would be better off were they to switch immediately to a democratic system.

    Until the collapse of the Soviet Union and the subsequent implosion of the living standards of the Russian people, some Chinese may have believed in an instant transformation to democracy. Now, many have no doubt that a weak central government will result in massive chaos and suffering for the Chinese people. For evidence, they look to 4,000 years of Chinese history and, particularly, the so-called “century of humiliation” China suffered from 1842 to 1949.

    Moreover, a democratically elected government is not necessarily a liberal one. The democratically elected Indian prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru seized back the Portuguese colony of Goa in 1961, against the protests of then US president John F Kennedy and British prime minister Harold Macmillan. A democratic China would probably be even less patient in dealing with Hong Kong and Taiwan.

    A democratically elected Chinese government would also be loath to be seen as weak in dealing with separatist movements in Xinjiang — look at the Indian government’s crackdown in Kashmir. Indeed none of China’s neighbours, not even the biggest democracies in Asia, are pushing for regime change in Beijing. A stable, predictable China, even as it becomes more assertive, is preferable to the alternative.

    The third flawed assumption may be the most dangerous: that a democratic China would inevitably accept western norms and practices, and happily become a member of the western-plus club, as Japan has done.

    That is not the cultural dynamic that is sweeping through Asia. Both Turkey and India are friends of the west. Yet Turkey has shifted from the secular ideology of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk to the Islamic one of Recep Tayyip Erdogan — and India has moved from the Anglophilic Nehru to the Hindu devotee Narendra Modi.

    We must acknowledge that a tsunami of de-westernisation is under way. Even more significantly, when Mr Erdogan announces the conversion of the Hagia Sophia to a mosque and Mr Modi resurrects a long-lost Hindu temple on a contested religious site, they are signalling a desire to return to pre-western cultural roots.

    Napoleon was right when he warned western nations to “let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world”. Even more than in Turkey and India, there is a potential volcano of anti-western sentiment waiting to explode in China. Currently, the only political force strong enough to hold down these forces of Chinese nationalism is the Chinese Communist party.

    The successor to the party could well be far less rational. Keep that in mind, instead of proceeding on autopilot with current policies towards China. The time has come for the west to do a complete reboot and reconsider all its fundamental premises on China. Western governments should learn to live and work with the Chinese leadership, instead of wishing for its transformation or early demise.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1948448c-d5c8-4e3d-8e40-a670e69235c8

  346. @Bard of Bumperstickers

    Thank you for both the Eagles reference and a nicely poetic post, Bard.

    Not only are the words great, but that is a great tune too, I think my favorite off of Hotel California. For the very best of The Eagles, you’ve got to go back to Bernie Leadon’s time and On the Border or Desperado (the latter a concept album if there every was one).

  347. @Quartermaster

    Dictatorship? Nah, if you haven’t been there and spent time with Chinese people, you can’t know exactly how things work.

    Yes, indeed QM, the CCP government officially controls a lot in the country. The reason I said they are not Communist, is because I’m talking as an economic system. As Mr. Reed and you pointed out, Chairman Deng changed everything, after 30 or so years of absolute misery. To placate the other Commies at the time, he told everyone there would be “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics”, meaning, “Capitalism, but let’s keep the same flags and not kill the leadership”. That went over better than a flat-out coup would have.

    I agree with you that the current leader Xi and the rest of them are more heavy-handed again. They do not want to kill productive capitalism though. Nobody wants that real Communism again.

    Regarding foreign policy, yes, they are pissed off that Americans and President Trump (on one of the few areas that I think he had been trying hard on) are tired of a 25 year highly-unfair trade deal. However, let them take over the South China Sea. Why is that our business? If they had a carrier and subs in the Gulf of Mexico, how would we feel about it? Let them take over all of Africa for all I care. Maybe the Africans can find a new excuse for their ills. This country is beyond broke, QM. We have blown so much money and goodwill of the world from 30 years back with the Neocon policing the world crap.

    It’s the Orwellian/Book of Revelation stuff that worries me the most about the place.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  348. Biff says:
    @VinnyVette

    Yeah, the_________ invented things, and had an advanced civilization “at a certain point in time,”

    Yada yada yada….. Fill in the blank with all past, present, and future civilizations until the end of time, and that’s the thing – some people think history(or the making of) ended when G.I. Joe was invented(hint: he’s still on a slow train to Knoxville).

  349. @GeneralRipper

    You’ve got it wrong, Mick. The worst of the underclass can never leave America. They are on parole or probation, never learned how to read a map in school, have a GED, cannot adapt, are all wrapped up in the sad relationships, have a bunch of kids out of wedlock starting at age 19, need to be near their drug dealer at all times, got married at age 20.

    Most expats will be functional middle-class males. The Americans who end up in trouble overseas are invariably enlisted servicemen like the grunt in Manila who found out the chick he was with was actually a ladyboy and killed her. That is because anybody can enlist and end up sent overseas. Or they are backpackers who try to smuggle hash out of Turkey.

    But the expats who leave voluntarily are intelligent and educated. Morons don’t travel well.

    Your average lifelong expat will sentient and educated.

    That is why I keep bringing Stanely the Polish guy up. He’s sitting in Flint right now watching poison sludge come out his taps. The government does not care a whit. His house is worth nothing, he cannot escape. He was shot in the back while raking his leaves in his now ghetto neighborhood by blacks for no reason, though it was a 22 and he is a big strong guy who lived. When I communicated with him, he talked about all of this like it was candy. When your an expat, you think it is crazy. But if you are Polish and from the rustbelt and did not sell your house in time, it is common.

    As a lifelong expat, I’m always surprised at how little initiative many Americans have. What do they hang around for? To watch their ball game at the stadium. Why not just take off? What does the place do for them?

    Why don’t you leave? Your grandparents are Irish and you can have an Irish passport and the Celtic Tiger is strong. Why not move to Dublin and start over? What keeps you where you are?

    I sometimes wonder what is wrong with me. Am I the only guy in the world who thinks sitting in Hyde Park watching the Swans or sand dune above the Gulf of Oman watching the sun set is better than being around the Cholos in Phoenix or black she-boons on a bus in Michigan? How can other Americans be around this and not be sick.

    What is so wonderful that they hang around?

    I can understand Europeans and Australians have a nice social contract and social safety net. That is worth something.

    • Replies: @GeneralRipper
    , @anon
  350. @Astuteobservor II

    Is “retard” the only word are you “totally” familiar with? You must be one of those Chinese-Americans who is precluded from being a real McCoy due to your distressed (epicanthal) features. It’s really a bloody shame you can’t see straight. Perhaps in the next lifetime … isn’t that what your fat Buddha preach to the credulous?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  351. @Sya Beerens

    I question the motives of anyone who brings up the Am. Indians, usually it’s anti-Whites.

    The Indians should not feel special, Whites were warring with other Whites long before any settled in North America.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  352. @A Texan

    It’s anti-White agendists who keep bringing up the precious Indians, as if universal peace and goodness reigned before EBIL YT.

  353. @Achmed E. Newman

    Thank you. Please, take anything you need.

  354. @denk

    It was just a word to the wise to not get sucked into that whirlpool of stupidity. The Mao-tards can’t be satisfied about arguing over their 5 year plans and new deals on the Godfree Roberts threads, so I was hoping they wouldn’t bring their unworkable revisionism over here. Other than you and a couple others, it’s been pretty good so far.

    (Well, that China vs. India conversation – I couldn’t give a rat’s ass.)

    Speaking of 5 year plans and new deals, got any music like this over there in the East? Best voice in rock music, evah!

    • Replies: @Meena
    , @denk
    , @Hillbob
  355. @ruralguy

    I felt like crying my eyes out when I returned to this madhouse in 2016, after spending a month in Chongqing. I concur with your experience.

    Remember, the fish rots from the head down.

    Don’t ever consent to be governed by the pieces of shit that purvey this filthy, corrupt miasma.

  356. @A Texan

    Texan, if you haven’t read it already, try Empire of the Summer Moon about the Comanche Indians and the settlers of east and central Texas some time.

    The Peak Stupidity blog has a 3-part review of this gripping and very unbiased book by author Sam Gwynne:

    Part 1
    Part 2
    Part 3

  357. @Sick of Orcs

    [The Indians should not feel special, Whites were warring with other Whites long before any settled in North America.]
    .
    It has not been the “Indians” who feel special. It is the whites!!! And they are crying for mom now that the non-whites have grow powerful enough that the whites are no longer treated as special!!!

  358. @Anon

    [Gun: is blowgun considered a gun? According to some it is. It appears that blowgun was invented independently over most of world. The powered gun, with black powder, was not the first gun.]
    .
    So, you think a blowgun is an earlier gun than the black-powder powered gun??? Have you ever heard of a FART???!!!

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  359. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    The thing is some Indians even consider the Chinese as a posh pussyboy race unlike the tough macho son of the soil types desis. The think of the same with Whites too and other Yellows too. When the Brits came, many local powers underestimated their marital prowess, considered them a “posh show off fakes who could not stand against macho son of the soil browns”, there was a lot of chestthumpin in the early days and later shock of defeat. This is nothing new.

    I agree. I see this a lot when travelling and sometimes living for stretches in other countries, not only India.

    The whole “darker skin means tougher men, lighter skin means pussies” unconscious stereotype a lot of black and brown males have. I smirk and laugh inside.

    I mean think about it, for just half a second. Does the following make any sense?

    Western and East Asian cultures have done things Latin American, Sub-saharan, Sub-continental, Middle Eastern and South East Asian cultures haven’t: from probing other other worlds, building modern cities, having impressive transport systems, shaping the land itself on national or continental scales – the list is endless.

    But the “evidence” these idiots choose to see is the rampaging of non-white ethnic groups (Black, Latino, Arabs, Turks, Sub-saharans, North Africans) in America and Europe, the ease with which civilians are kidnapped in Afghanistan, Latin America or say the southern Philippines, how the South African white farmers have become defenseless, and how the Indonesian Army carried out genocide and mass-rape as recently as the late 90s against their local Chinese community.

    Armed thugs, against civilians who aren’t looking for a fight. Yeah, that’s some great Third-World level reasoning there.

    “See, Western and Asian people, they are good at building and thinking, but they are weak. Soft due to wealth, physically weak due to use of machines and technology, and the one thing they cannot do is . . . fight”. They equate not wanting a war, with not being capable of waging (and most likely winning) one.

    If Indians think this way about the Chinese, may their myriad gods and spirits help them, for nothing else will.

  360. @Deep Thought

    CORRECTION:
    .
    So, you think a blowgun, rather than the black-powder powered gun, is the first gun??? Have you ever heard of a FART???!!!

  361. Vidi says:
    @SaneClownPosse

    Mao was a scion of an ultra wealthy family

    Very not true. Though Mao described himself as being from a wealthy peasant family, the “wealth” was relative. It meant the family could live in a house with a decent roof, and they could send the young precocious Mao to school without too much financial hardship. But the kid still had to work in the fields of their farm.

  362. @Achmed E. Newman

    Great comment Achmed!
    As for Fred’s article, there seems to be little difference between what he says China is an authoritarian oligarchy, not a dictatorship. It seems the only difference between those 2 is that an authoritarian oligarchy has many authoritarians, and a dictatorship only has one.

    Their government still seems to be very Communist, which is the same as an authoritarian oligarchy to me. Pretty much just like Russia. Although, their economy does appear to be capitalistic, so they are a hybrid country. Combining a Communist authoritarian oligarchy government with a capitalist economy. I have seen other authors say that too, so they actually pointed that out to me.

    I also agree that their electronic Orwellian stuff, their Great Internet Firewall and cashless economy are all very worrisome. In fact they are the prototype model for what will come to the US. That is the very worrisome part. Do not forget that China’s drastic SARS-CoV-2 lock down was the model for the WHO and the rest of the world followed it blindly. I think they are also the prototype model for the coming global electronic Orwellian stuff, and cashless economy.

    Also worrisome is their recent takeover of Hong Kong, which he did not mention in his article.
    Like you, it would not be an option for a bug-out country for me either, and quite honestly, my short list of viable options is dwindling to almost none now.
    We’re definitely running out of decent places for freedom loving people on this planet!
    The globalists are making sure of that!

  363. Vidi says:
    @Marcali

    Not to forget that China exhibits all the hallmarks of a Fascist state, hence growing living standard.

    No, China is still communist. The government owns all the land, for example; you can only lease a parcel of it for 70 years.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  364. @restless94110

    I agree that an “authoritarian oligarchy” is the same as fascism. In fact that is part of the definition of fascism.
    I also agree with you that since China is essentially a one color society, whites, blacks and anyone not Asian may not be welcome there.
    Does that make them racists? I have not heard anyone accuse them of that, yet…
    Maybe Hong Kong was too diverse for the central oligarchy in Beijing, which is one of their many reasons for taking it over?
    Even if not, it also removes Hong Kong from the list of possible options for good destination places.

    • Thanks: restless94110
  365. @Anonymous

    But the “evidence” these idiots choose to see is the rampaging of non-white ethnic groups (Black, Latino, Arabs, Turks, Sub-saharans, North Africans) in America and Europe, the ease with which civilians are kidnapped in Afghanistan, Latin America or say the southern Philippines, how the South African white farmers have become defenseless, and how the Indonesian Army carried out genocide and mass-rape as recently as the late 90s against their local Chinese community.

    This picture sums things up well.

  366. Meena says:
    @Franz

    Europe borrowed ideas and stole resources from Asia : India , China , SE Asia .
    USA built itself on the European knowledge expertise and on the stolen goods and resources from Central America , Phillipne, China

    China is doing same . Nothing wrong ,

    Without Chinese changes or progress achieved after 1980, America would not have changed much either , No concerted front against Soviet , no Pakistan ‘s support in Afghanistan, no Thatcher , no Regan , no neoliberalism that spawned today’s trillion dollars transnational companies and possibly no Israeli planned redrawing of the map of ME .

    China wealth generation and manufacturing have not hurt US manufacturing directly . American manufacturing got hurt because of abuse and destruction of union , because of wage stagnation , because of lack of development of essential but non- profitable segments of economy : health care , train , telephone – internet access and because of neglect of education .

    Chinese money might have made few billionaires here in USA . Those billions could have still been generated keeping rest of the equation same including the same pace of Chinese development if US regulated it’s financial and promoted the manufacturing with protection of the labor force
    Those billions wouldn’t have gone to CEOs but to labor forces and hen to taxes to finance the neglected public services.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  367. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    What stopped Mongol armies conquering Western Europe was the same thing, essentially, which stopped them conquering Japan, South East Asia and North Africa.

    The effort and expenditure (of lives, wealth, time) simply wasn’t worth it. That’s the TL;DR/short version.

    They were sitting in Eurasia, the center of population and civilization. The grand prize in Eurasia was China, of course. Immense, rich, advanced in every way – but (temporarily) divided.

    As nomads, even the Mongols, as unstoppable as they were, probably could not have successfully attacked China, a huge high-classical state when in a period of stable dynamism. This is a pattern that held true for all of Chinese, and even world, history. China, Rome, classical Persia, India when unified – all could only be invaded by outside “barbarians” if internally weakened, preferably divided.

    If outsiders were to try such a thing at a period of relative imperial stability, they would quickly wish they hadn’t. Cases in point: the Hsiung-Nu (the Huns’ ancestors) and the ferocious Asian Turkic khaganate (grand khanate) versus the Han and Tang, the huge Germanic invasions at the time of Marcus Aurelius, Central Asian marauding armies on the northern frontiers of Persia and India – all were bloodily repulsed, massacred, and in some cases thoroughly broken/assimilated as peoples.

    So for the Mongols, it was well worth the risk, and the effort, to subjugate China. The Mongols were awesome warriors, and the Han had left them an opening that they could not let pass. The perfect storm. After that, came their other worthwhile victories – in Central Asia (the famous Silk Road), Persia (yet another Classical civilization), Russia (resources), Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Anatolian Turkey – all well worth the trouble.

    And no, NONE of these regions and mighty empires/kingdoms were push-overs. They took effort and time, and lives and resources were spent taking them.

    By the time the Mongols and their Chinese, Persian and Russian vassals/allies got to Western Europe, Japan, South East Asia or North Africa, they were holding an enormous space, with a colossal (and very productive) population.

    In short, the stereotypically unstoppable Mongol armies were running short of wealth and resources to go after yet more tough opponents, at yet greater distances from their homeland in eastern Mongolia

    I read somewhere that the Mongol leaders were curious as to what it would take to conquer yet more territory for their empire. They actually commissioned serious strategic, logistical and tactical studies to find out what their level of commitment had to be for these wars to work.

    They assembled very experienced commanders and staff planners (yes, they had professional planners) from the Chinese (well-versed in resource-intensive warfare), Mongols, Persians, and Russians. They figured out foundry outputs, farm production, herding, manpower – everything to wage victorious, decisive war

    The conclusion for Europe, for example. was something on the order of roughly ~150,000 professional soldiers, maybe more, at any given time, with a lot of disciplined infantry and foot missile troops(arbalesters included), were required to be tasked to campaign for at least 20 years, to systematically reduce and subjugate the entire region. That figure is obviously aware of the needed siege warfare, hence the large number.

    F0r Japan and South East Asia, perhaps somewhat smaller land armies would be needed, but then there would have to be constructed a very large and very strong, ocean-worthy fleet to transport that force and keep it supplied with weaponry, armor, horses and special items (like steel pulleys etc).

    Similar issues of scale to the above were present for North Africa – terrain, climate, distance, resources.

    The key in these scenarios was level of commitment. Any half-hearted attempts, skimping on quality, manpower, weapons, logistics, ship quality, and above all on sheer TIME, would fail.

    These (see above) were the conclusions of the Chinese staff planners of the Mongols, who definitely knew their business , as shown by history.

    • Replies: @Malla
  368. @denk

    I can’t figure out who you are talking to. To me? It doesn’t sound like it. Who is Gammaray? What is a Pompass clone? Is that like a pompous clone? What is the clone cloned from?

    I’d also say that there are differences between nationalists, WN, white supremacists, and lying pos, so your indication that it does not matter which is obviously untrue.

    By the way, it’s not its the people,, stupid. It is it’s the people, stupid. I guess none of those 5% of thinking yanks taught you english.

    Finally why are you giving respect to what you think are the thinking yanks? Why is it due? What must the yanks think for you to place them in the thinking yanks category and then give them due respect?

    Maybe you meant to reply to someone else? That’s the only thing that might make sense.

    • Thanks: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @denk
  369. @Colin Wright

    If you go back to my initial comment you would find that it was about the ability to innovate. It is obvious that the Chinese are eating our lunch by taking our innovations and making them better, while we foolishly let our people get stupider and get distracted by idiotic identity politics.

    In other replies I have freely asserted that China’s top-down control of financial matters allows them to help their people quickly and muscularly. Somewhere a long time ago, America forgot that you need a healthy, educated, well-sheltered people to compete on the world stage. You need good infrastructure.

    America lost its way from attacks on it by both the left and the right.

    My initial comment simply summarized would be “what will China do when there are no more innovations they can copy from thee West?” And, “is it better to live in an authoritarian oligarchy or an quasi-anarchic republic?” My comment was meant to be an addendum to Fred’s breezy travelogue, pointing out the problems with the Chinese societal mindset and their authoritarian government. Period.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  370. @Deep Thought

    Maybe it’s because I don’t care what happened in China over 500 years ago.

    Good luck.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  371. Malla says:
    @Ponder

    Now, let me cut to the chase. Every information about Africa clearly shows that all Africans had small families. Why? No agriculture.

    Are you sure? West Africans had domesticated a type of rice, different from rice in Asia both the Japaonica and Indica types.

    I want you to note very carefully that nowhere is there any record of any genocide.

    Record??? Before Arabs and Europeans went how much of a record of anything existed in Africa? Horrible famines existed in India before the British came, regularly. But Indian record keeping was much poor than the Europeans and thus the details are not known. The Arab slave trade took a lot of slaves from Africa but their record keeping was much poorer than those of Europeans (a fact accepted by black scholars like Dr. Clarke) and thus the details are not known. By keeping records, Europeans shot themselves int he foot. What would they keep records of? They did not have a writing system which was widespreadly used.

    Now, you should know that African is the most genetically diverse place in the whole world. That point is undisputed.
    You need to brush up some knowledge of black African genetics. Black Africans have such great diversity because they contain the gens of many extinct hominid races/subspecies who lived in Africa but whose genes are not found in non black Africans including Aboriginals/Asian Blacks. Also most Africans are not as diverse, but Africa contains many small populations who have extremely diverse genes.

    because even where there is assumptions of genocide, in that same document you find Bantu assimilation and absorption of other tribes.

    Assimilation is genocide. They lost their culture and separate identity. Check out bantu-Pygmy mixings It was mostly bantu males and Pygmy females. What were the pgymy males doin? Watching and wanking to Jew porn? The Bantus killed the males and took the females. Most of Central Africa was not Bantu, they expanded, it was not their land.

    Finally, all African tribes maintained their history carefully through folklore and dedicated history masters.

    Hindu folklore (far more sophisticated than African folklore) do not speak of massacring Buddhists, but on checking archaeological sites we get a different picture. Not completely trustworthy.

    I will write more posts.

    • Replies: @Ponder
  372. @God's Fool

    Hey retard. Retard. Retard. Lol. Entertain me some more.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  373. @restless94110

    Doesn’t making something better requires innovation? Nothing stops USA from taking Chinese innovations and make them better in turn.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  374. d dan says:
    @gavishti

    “… how can you state that China doesn’t to show off its might ?”

    China doesn’t *WANT* to show off its might. If you know enough Chinese, you know they generally prefer to keep low profile. However, if the neighbor or the exceptional country is beating war drum too near China’s border, China is FORCED to, and I agree it is important to, show off its might to prevent any dangerous miscalculations happening in those stupid minds.

    “As of today China has claimed the territories of many of its neighbors and also acted upon it, be they Nepal, Laos, Myanmar etc.”

    I heard this from some Indian posters before, but this is factually wrong, i.e. a lie.

    “Middle Kingdom … the rest of the peoples and countries of the world are inconsequential and should pay tribute to China. “

    This is a totally twisted interpretation of the meaning of Middle Kingdom and ancient Chinese thoughts. And it is a meaningless and irrelevant digression.

    “Your paragraph ‘2’ is just your conjecture, please share any supporting articles or documents.”

    After the Jun 15 deadly crash, China immediately proposed disengagement where both retreat 2km to create a buffer zone. India was hesitatant (I believe the reason was they don’t trust China, or something like that). China took the initiative to withdraw first, and India followed later around July 8 to retreat 1.5km as reported in several places, including the Chinese media like this:

    https://news.fx168.com/politics/international/2007/3986166.shtml

    “中國撤軍後、…一名政府高級官員告訴《印度人報》(The Hindu),印度軍隊已從拉達克東部加勒萬河谷撤退1.5公裏,建立一個緩衝區,在未來30天內禁止徒步巡邏”
    My rough translation: “After Chinese troop retreated, … a high ranking government official told “The Hindu” that Indian troop has retreated 1.5km from Galwan Valley of East Ladakh, building up a buffer zone, forbidding foot patrol for the next 30 days. “

    There were several other reports I read, including Indian ones. Some claimed India initially withdraw 1km. The point about the extra 0.5 or 1km is not important – given the disputed land of hundreds of thousands squared km. My point is that Indian should notice China’s initial show of goodwill for disengagement and to lessen the chance of war.

    “Your list of territorial claims made by China is mainly supportive of its land based neighbors.”

    Yes, China and India ONLY has land disputes. So they are the most relevant precedence and examples.

    “What about the ‘ nine dash line’?”

    Firstly, China advocates negotiations of the maritime disputes by the claimants, not war. This is totally consistent with the way China settled the land disputes. Secondly, despite all western propaganda about China’s aggressiveness, not a single bullet has been fired in South China Sea for decades. This again is consistent with China’s military restraints in the China-India border, even though China’s navy easily dwarfs the combined fleets of all ASEAN countries. Thirdly, China already gave concessions, by reducing the 11 dashed line to 9 dashed line, and gave an island to (North) Vietnam, unilaterally, without asking for reciprocal return from Vietnam, and given at a time when Vietnam was at her most difficult time during the war. I bet 99.9% of peoples outside China are not aware of this historical fact – not even the Vietnamese want to talk about it. Finally, this issue should not be of concerns for India (i.e. it is none of your business).

    “…colonial oppressions, so why is China trying to repeat them now…”

    Did China invade or occupy any country? Did China subvert any government? Sorry, you are so out of order – if there is colonial oppressions today, China is at the bottom of the list among the great powers that do it.

    “Debt traps is a very old game which is presently being utilized by China with all impunity.”

    Look like you are throwing up one western propaganda mud after another at China. Firstly, all debts China offered are for PRODUCTIVE projects like roads, railways, ports – exactly the type of infrastructure projects China does within its border too. They are not for consumption, not for military hardware, and not for foreign adventures nor aggressions. Secondly, all the debts are offered as arm-length deals. There is no coercion, no political strings attached, and host countries are free to choose other lender countries or organizations (e.g. IMF, World Bank, etc). They generally come to China’s deal because it is the best offer among the competitors’. Finally, China has been very flexible in restructuring and offering concessions (including grants and loan forgiven) for countries that encounter unexpected difficulties.

    “China is … the big brother…”

    China likes to treat India as equal, not a small or big brother.

    “it is their bounden duty to take the first steps towards peace and general wellbeing…”

    Firstly, it is everyone’s duty. Secondly, the main thrust of my previous post is to demonstrated that China has ALREADY taken multiple initial steps of goodwills, as far back as in 1962. India should show her seriousness if she wants to settle the disputes peacefully, rather than asking for concessions even before talks start. And Finally, China did offer a great concession – exchanging South Tibet with Akai Chin. If you understand the differences between these 2 regions, you know it is a BIG concessions to India. The ball is clearly on India’s court – and she has NOT been responsive nor responsible in her actions for decades.

    “… Chinese bullying.”

    Here you go again. Sigh! And “Chinese not taking the first step” implies “Chinese is bullying”? What a non sequitur.

    You express your desire for peace, and I hope you realize peace requires efforts from ALL sides. Both sides should dial down the rhetoric and avoid repeating blatant western lies – they are extremely poisonous and harmful to both countries. Finally, listen and observe carefully what China did and is doing.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  375. Juvenalis says:

    Never in its history did the superpower Soviet Union ever have any sort of trading relationship with the other superpower the United States. By contrast, over the last few decades the United States has helped the lying cheating thieving Chinese Communist Party turn People’s Republic of China into an economic powerhouse, by far the two largest economies heavily intertwined as the top two trading partners. USSR would have looked very different, may still be around today, if USA had the economic relationship with the Soviets as it does with the ChiComs. The US helped secure the PRC access to the entire first world economy, getting PRC into WTO and other cosmopolitan institutions, China gained at the expense of working class Americans.

    Combined with the massive technological development in the decades since the collapse of the Soviet Union (tech that ChiComs stole, often illegally; did zero innovating themselves) and overall explosive growth in total global economic output, even if your highly selective anecdotal comparison were true, ’tis a nonsensical comparison.

    USA kept USSR isolated within its bloc for its entire history. Since Nixon, PRC has been free to play both sides, free to trade with both the Capitalist First World and Communist Second World until the latter collapsed, then total freedom. Again, instead of isolating PRC like USA did to USSR, USA under Clintons and Bushes actively helped facilitate entry of China into world markets and world institutions (like UN and WHO ChiComs got right to work seizing total control over) and in fact gain trade dominance over America itself: American jobs and industry lost, Americans dependent on China even for vital medical supplies, medications, pharmaceuticals.

    Chinese in return ship over fentanyl to kill Americans whose jobs they stole, whether it comes over the border from Mexico or not, it’s Made in China, shipped to the USA (also never heard it pronounced “fentanol”; stress is on first syllable; in normal English rapid speech it’s common to mid-centralize unstressed vowels toward schwa [ə]; if you’re thus likewise pronouncing the unstressed /a/ in second syllable as full [a], you’re the one whose English pronunciation is off).

    • Agree: GeneralRipper
    • Troll: d dan, Harold Smith
    • Replies: @Deep Thought
  376. Malla says:
    @Ponder

    Documentary by Prof Henry Loius Gates J.r.
    From 0.37 minutes to
    “My People are a Military People, male and female. My revenue is the proceeds of the sale of prisoners of war. All my nation, all, are soldiers and the slave trade feeds them.” This is how a powerful West African ruler described his kingdom to a British soldier in the middle of the last century (19th century). Did not specify which Kingdom in West Africa though.

    at 30:04 Dahomey Kingdom was so warlike that other Africans had to make a venice like village in a lake to escape.
    at 31:30 the Dahohomey and neighbouring Kingdoms traded in slaves for ammunition. Dahomey themselves 1 million as slaves.
    the Dahomey even sacrificed their enemies, yes human sacrifice.
    At 33:20, the Dahomey were warlike, wars every year. Enemies were beheaded. Conquest and power and being greedy of power was considered a good thing for the King to have in Dahomey culture.
    At 34:50 Human sacrifice of enemy kings
    At 37:38 How much slavery was in the Dahomey kingdom
    At 45:15 a black guy of Benin said that the people sold into slavery to Europeans (Jews) were lucky or they would have been sacrificed, so slavery saved the lives of the blacks sold as slaves.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  377. Malla says:
    @Ponder

    https://www.cwporter.com/rhodesia.html
    Requiem for Rhodesia by Carlos Whitlock Porter

    [MORE]

    At a dance, one tribe will get up and dance, the other will sit down; half the audience will smile and joke, and other half will not. These are different tribes. If you build a township for one tribe, they will not tolerate members of other tribes living there. They will not tolerate members of other related tribes from different parts of Rhodesia, Zambia, or Mozambique living there. They will not dance together; they will not sit together; they will not talk to each other; they will not intermarry; they will not work together without frequent killing.”
    …snip…
    ““Africa is the most racist country on earth”, an African medical student studying in Spain told me once, “I come from a little country about this big” (indicating a coffee cup), “Spanish Guinea, Equitorial Guinea”. He began naming regions in his country. “The people from the mountains hate the people from the jungles, the people from the jungles hate the people from the plains, the people from the plains hate the people from the coast, the people from the countryside hate the people from the cities, the people in the cities hate everybody… what can you do?”
    Colonial history has been somewhat peculiarly distorted. The British were invited into Zambia to protect the inhabitants from the Matabele, and entered East Africa to destroy the Arab slave trade. Perhaps those vociferous African converts to Mohammedanism would be amused to find themselves in the hands of an Islamic specialist in the castration of Negroes to be sold as harem guards.”
    …snip….
    “Reporters who visit the white-rule states think they know better than the people who live there. At one time this would have been called “prejudice”. Such people know all the facts except the obvious ones, and constantly pretend that if Africans were treated as something which they are not, African would be as democratic as Switzerland. The truth is that Africans will not share power with each other, much less with you, and such theorists are seldom willing to invest their own lives and property in the experiment.“

    All politics in Africa is tribal. Politics, religion, colour, are just new names. Parties are organized along tribal lines. If two tribes are enemies (and they are nearly all enemies), and one fights for the terrorists, the others will either fight for the whites or form their own “terr” groups and fight each other. The three Marxist terrorist armies in Angola reported each other’s troop movements to the Portuguese for years. The Frente Nacional, for example (FNLA) was made up of Bakongo tribesmen from across the Angoloa-Congo (Zaire) border, and was later backed by that country in its civil war against the Movimento Popular (MPLA) and the União Nacional (UNITA). These others had been geographical and tribal enemies of the Bakongos for years.
    Mozambique had two main tribes, the Macua and the Makonde (I am sorry to say I don’t remember which is which). One lived on both sides of the Tanzanian border and made up the main forces of the Frelimo (Frente de Liberacão de Moçambique) terrorists. The others, two million strong, fought for the Portuguese and made up 60% of their army. When “independence” came, they asked Frelimo for elections and were told politely to go to hell. Where is all the talk about stopping Communism by satisfying the “legitimate aspirations” of these people?
    In Rhodesia there are two main terrorist groups following the same pattern.
    It is useless to wait for “education” to de-tribalize the Africans. Tribe is as fundamental as nation, language, religion, culture. The only de-tribalized Africans in the world are the descendents of the New World slaves. Uprooted by force; deliberately mixed; taught an alien language; dumped on the other side of the world for two centuries; outnumbered and educated by whites — how else could it be done? The New World Negroes are the only ones born speaking a common language (English, Spanish, or Portuguese). They are the only ones who accept the racially mixed as belonging to their own race.
    The African “coloured” (with European, Indian, Malay, Hottentot or Chinese ancestry) belongs to no tribe — is accepted nowhere — has no culture of his own, and has a significantly higher rate of social problems than the African. This is one reason why interracial sex was made a criminal offence in South Africa.”

    …snip…

    “The system of independent tribal homelands in South Africa is in fact identical to those “black republics” once demanded by American black radicals. The latter are the only areas in the world where blacks can rule free from the conflicting and sometimes violent ambitions of other races and tribes.
    However, even these areas, set up and educated for responsible democratic government by the (Apartheid) South African government at great expense, reject democracy and voting at the first available opportunity to do so. In one of these states, the first royal act of King Jonathan, “the world’s longest reigning monarch”, who had ruled his people longer than Queen Victoria had ruled hers, was to abolish Parliament, outlaw the opposition parties, and declare a dictatorship within several days of independence. The first act of independent Ovamboland was to institute public floggings. The world protested and blamed (Apartheid) South Africa. South Africa asked them to stop it. They replied that they were independent now, it was a tribal custom, and they could do what they liked.”

    • Replies: @Ponder
    , @Ponder
  378. @Jeff Stryker

    Thanks again for the “thoughtful” reply, Jeff.

    Could you make it a little longer with a few more bullshit anecdotes thrown in next time?

  379. We don’t need Iran’s or Venezuela’s oil. We, America is a net exporter of oil.

  380. @GreatSocialist

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say you’ve been suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome for nearly four years now…lol

    You may wish to call your psychiatrist/therapist and schedule an appointment ASAP.

    Strictly from a layman’s perspective, judging from your recent posts I’d have to say your condition has worsened considerably, and has in fact become acute.

    You may also wish to inquire about some anti-anxiety meds as well as some sedatives for election night. (Or as the Democrats like to call it “election month”)

    You’re gonna need it, sweetheart.

    • Troll: Harold Smith
  381. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    And yes retard, cold war proves that USA would sit out a war between India and China. As that would be a godsend to USA if China gets into a hot war with India. Surprise mother fucker. USA actually benefits.

    Not true at all. We benefit if a war in between the USA and China breaks out as general Bakshi said in that video I had linked once. Our deep State is prayin for a war to break out in the South China Sea. Already most of China’s military resources are on the Eastern side, but in a war with the USA, more resources would be taken there. This would give a green light to the Indian Army to move in. Basically China would fall in what Germany feared and fell into, a two side war.
    There is massive pressure on the Indian Government by the Indian population, especially the vocal Indian nationalists to teach China a harsh lesson, to take revenge.

    The Indian deep State is extremely happy about the worsening situation in between USA and China. Also India believes that its long term goal of isolating Pakistan was thwarted only because of China. Once China falls,India will denuclearize (Israel in on this too with New Delhi as Pak is the only nuclear Islamic State) and then slowly isolate and breakup Pakistan (our most hated enemy) at its own free time.

    Also if China was to get more isolated economically, New Delhi believes that India would take its place and become the factory of the World.

    What New Delhi is not happy about is worsening relations in between Russia and USA. because it makes India’s foreign policy very complicated. Also worsening relationship in between Israel and Iran.

    India’s dream world would be good relations in between the USA/West and Russia. Good relations in between Iran and USA. But also a destroyed China and Pakistan. Actually India benefits. If you think the USA could use us wiley Indians as sepoys, you know nothing about New Delhi. Our deep State can run circles around the dumb Yanks in the long run. LOL.

    If such a war in between China and the USA destroys China and weakens the USA, that will be in our interest too. Both China and USA destroyed/ weakened actually paves our way to become Jagatguru, the sole paramount power in the World, which is the ultimate aim of the 1 billion plus Indian nation. That is our rightful place for being the most ancient civilization in the world, the most wisest civilization and the most richest.

  382. @Astuteobservor II

    You’re a self entertaining clown … Fred Reed, I am sure, is likely getting tired of your spiel…

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  383. @Astuteobservor II

    Doesn’t making something better requires innovation?

    Nio. That’s improving on an idea that you didn’t have.

    The problem is new ideas.

    This is simple see. Look at the past 120 years or even the past 200 years. All of the inventions that came from England, the US, and other parts of Europe. Want a list? Google it.

    What came from China?

    Nada.

    Nothing stops USA from taking Chinese innovations and make them better in turn.

    Yep, So? Although, frankly, you might have a lot of trouble getting what you need to do that from the Chinese. They are perfectly adept at stealing ideas, intellectual property, and reverse engineering, but much less open to sharing their improvements.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  384. @God's Fool

    I knew it. Another retard thinking the censorship will silence me like any other place.

    This is the unz review retard.

    There is no censorship to save your retarded ass.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  385. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    Is this the best you can come up with after searching the internet? Interviews of Africans? So if I interview Indians and they say things, then that’s the truth? I remember you posting such shit before of Africans talking about China. Why then don’t you post the videos also with counter opinions? Man, that’s pathetic. And even worse those interviews are about modern Africa and not ancient Africa that we are talking about unless 16 and 17 century is old to you.

    I write about Bantu agriculture and you refute by advancing my point? You should show large African families existed prior to farming and domestication to refute my point. Bantus were the first to start farming in the whole of Africa and that is what allowed them to expand. Period. Bantus lived in clusters just like all the other tribes — small groups till agriculture. Prove this point wrong. This is why also pygmy and San and Khoi occupied very little spaces. Check even wikipedia
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Pygmies

    Check haplotype distribution
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L1_(mtDNA)

    Assimilation is not genocide. Period. Indians marrying and getting married by Europeans are getting genocided and Vice versa?

    Where does hindu folklore come in and its superiority? How was that so called superiority ascertained? What parameters were used? Or malla said so? And just because hindu folklore doesn’t say some things is evidence that African folklore is the same? That is why you had to add weight you tripe by citing superiority? I gave a very good example of Roots the book and movie which demonstrated African folklore. Where is your hindu example? And finally, no folklore from all the groups involved? Bantu, pygmy, San, Khoi etc. ( there are not eextinctyou know?) . No evidence of mass graves and bones? Not artefacts of pygmies or San found anywhere in those Bantu lands? Those lands were uninhabited. Just like Bantu lands were scattered with small family groups prior to agriculture. And the migration was not caused by lack of land either.

    About all your other claims, like genetically diverse etc. Please argue with science

    https://www.worldfamilies.net/mtdnahaplogroups#origins

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3258037/

    Stop roaming the internet to look for anything to support your original tripe. You know nothing about Africa and that won’t change by searching and reading documents here and there. You need to reconcile all the information collected into something cohesive and not just random accumulated things. That’s why it took you so long to reply as you spend hours searching on the internet.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  386. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    Finally malla, stop trying g to gaslight by moving into slavery. That was a fairly recent phenomenon compared to your initial false and frankly malicious statement about Bantu killing other inhabitants. You have provided no proof other than it must have because others did so. I have countered with history and folklore and folktales and excavation and science using Gene’s and all and all you have done is gone to the internet and found nothing to support your false statement. I can provide you with folklore about certain tribes that I know of which if we chase down, coincide with what is found on the ground and by science. You do that or just let it rest. You know nothing about ancient Africa. Period.

  387. @Malla

    I 100% agree that it is in India’s interest if India can get USA to join a total war vs China.

    But it is 100% in USA’s interest that China wastes it energy in the total war vs India instead of focusing all it’s energy on growth. And if a limited nuclear war occurs, even better as China would be out of the race to the top for at least 50 years if not more.

    In my opinion, if USA joins, it is almost a guarantee that it will become a nuclear war. Do you think USA wants to risk nuclear war for India?

    Think hard. Think really hard.

    The great games between major powers all the way up to world war 2 becomes stupid in the face of nukes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  388. @GammaRay

    It’s pretty clear that the White nationalist/alt-right communities (which overlap but are not equivalent) are divided on the subject of China. This is an anti-China piece written by a White nationalist/alt-right individual and addressed to those within the White nationalist/alt-right communities who are more sympathetic to China:

    https://counter-currents.com/2020/03/sympathy-for-the-dragon/

    As might be expected, he trotted out the COVID-19 trope, even though the origin of the virus is unknown and, therefore, there is no evidence that China is responsible for the “pandemic” either by creating it in a lab or as a result of some aspect of its culture, such as “wet markets” or the supposed popularity of bat soup.

    So while it’s certainly true that some in the White nationalist/alt-right communities are China haters, it’s equally certain that many others are not, and I would guess the latter are the majority. It seems to me, moreover, that the China haters tend to be those with more conventional “conservative” views. They tend to still strongly identify with the United States, to vote Republican, to think Donald Trump is a great president, to have supported the Iraq War, and, of course, to favor war with China over Taiwan/Hong Kong/the South China Sea. Those of us who are fully capable of facing reality understand China does nothing more than behave like a normal country, which is to say, they look out for their interests. The United States is the deeply pathological abnormality, a country which for decades has acted against the interests of its own people, to the point of becoming a threat to their existence.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  389. @restless94110

    You cannot just use the last 120 years as a metric as during that entire time China was basically in a limbo. China was like a all you can eat buffet for the military powers of Europe from 1850 to 1939. Then it had to claw out of the ideological hell hole of communism. Finally got back on it’s feet after 40 years of constant reforms, in 2020. China missed the the entirety of the first two industrial revolutions. China just somewhat caught up in certain areas just Now in 2020.

    I honestly don’t get where the Chinese can’t innovate comes from. Do you chant this to help you sleep better at night? It is a ridiculous claim. If the Chinese can’t innovate, why the economic war right now? They post absolutely no danger to our high tech industries. And no, 5nm chips cannot be reversed engineered.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  390. The funny thing about this latest example of kissing Chinese ass, is what is missing.

    Does Fred in Mexico, or “Godfree” Roberts or Kevin Barret or any of the myriad expat Asian pussy addicts really believe that the Chinese do not imbibe their children in the belief that they are “exceptional”? Sure they may do it in a typical subdued, polite Asian manner, but the result is the same.

    All races and peoples do it. The people who have done it the most and for the longest duration are Jews…lol

    You are welcome to hate on whitey and white Americans till the cows come home, but it’s not going to change a thing. White Christian Civilization is the Greatest in Recorded History. Full Stop.

    Y’all are just distant seconds.

    Black is beautiful and Tan is grand, but White is the color of the Big Boss Man. 😉

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @denk
  391. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    Last last link about Rhodesia. Man you are a hoot. What has that got to do with ancient Africa? It just went further to prove my point that all this things we see in Africa now are very recent phenomenon. You are trying to use what is now happening to justify your racism? You don’t and even would not agree to the causes of African problems now. That is why you belittle and dehumanise Africans. You have learnt well from your masters. By the way, where is all that mineral material going seeing that Africans have no Industry? Say, who finances all this killing in Africa seeing they have no money, where do weapons come from seeing we don’t make any? Where is all our gold and diamonds? Why is the most richest place in Africa in constant turmoil? How come mining is still on going? Who provides infrastructure and logistics? To who do those materials go?

    Malla, I have engaged you enough to you getting back to the same bigotry that I challenged you on and you could not defend. You are now back at it again. So, you are either a sociopath or very insecure and unstable human being who justifies the unjustifiable while calling to God, in short a hypocrite, liar and with a slave or inferior mentality. A sub human to your superior whites and due to it, the need to sub humanize blacks according to your indian caste system — white good and superior and black bad and inferior. And that makes you feel good because at least you are not black. Pathetic and quite useless to boot.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @showmethereal
  392. You know what is the most amazing thing to me?

    When you consider all the men who died in all the wars in Europe and America, and even without all those men, our civilization is EASILY still the best.

    Imagine what it could have been.

  393. gavishti says:
    @d dan

    Two hundred years ago, the prominent German military theorist Carl von Clausewitz proposed his famous definition of war as “the continuation of politics by other means.” This definition has not changed in any significant way since and China is showing of it’s new weapons so that India accede to its demands. Your comment clearly shows China’s new missile’s as well as their range. India also has it’s own missile’s, moreover, both countries are nuclear powers. Under such circumstances why would anyone think of a full fledged war?

    It is my understanding that whilst there maybe a few skirmishes between India and China, for the purpose of placating their domestic audiences, there will not be a full fledged war. Both countries are sagacious enough to avoid such a situation.

    Global capital presently regulates both countries, and the time for such a war in its benefit has not come. There may be an actual war but it could be in the middle-east, as a learned person recently stated.

    Lets hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. After all, this year has been quite interesting and full of surprises – so far.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  394. anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Two hundred years ago, the prominent German military theorist Carl von Clausewitz proposed his famous definition of war as “the continuation of politics by other means.”

    That’s what he has written and (imho) a little obvious. But there is another German named Gunnar Heinsohn. He is in research on genocide and many more. He states that the likeliness of wars correlates with the ratio of young adult mans compared to the total population. The so called youth bulge. Even this is easy to understand. You need the (influence-able young ) man to go to war.

    Wars (and terrorism, race conflicts etc.) he showed are more a function of this ratio. Much more than the “obvious” quarrels around some stones and low pressure paths with no vegetation.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  395. @Astuteobservor II

    ‘…I honestly don’t get where the Chinese can’t innovate comes from. Do you chant this to help you sleep better at night? It is a ridiculous claim. If the Chinese can’t innovate, why the economic war right now? They post absolutely no danger to our high tech industries. And no, 5nm chips cannot be reversed engineered.’

    I think also that such notions as ‘the Chinese can’t innovate’ (do we know that they can’t?) veer dangerously close to becoming a kind of comforting shibboleth we tell ourselves to avoid confronting — honestly and constructively — any challenge that China may actually pose.

    No doubt the Chinese of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries lulled themselves into continued passivity with equivalent formulae.

    • Replies: @Poco
  396. @GeneralRipper

    ‘…You are welcome to hate on whitey and white Americans till the cows come home, but it’s not going to change a thing. White Christian Civilization is the Greatest in Recorded History. Full Stop.’

    Oh honestly. Does it not occur to you that a Chinaman of 1820 would have said (with equal confidence):

    ‘…You are welcome to hate on Chinamen and Chinese till the cows come home, but it’s not going to change a thing. Han Chinese Civilization is the Greatest in Recorded History. Full Stop.’

    You go right ahead. Recapitulate their mistake.

    …but is there some way you could it without me?

    • Replies: @GeneralRipper
  397. anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @Protagonist

    China leads ALL innovation indicators by huge, growing margins.

    Innovations? There are not many innovations in this world. Most is a combination of different technologies put together to a new product or system. You don’t need a single innovation to make a smartphone. You need the technology china has and a lot of manpower china has to adapt existing technologies and get the errors out. That’s all. Or take 5G. This is little more than the GSM Standard with higher frequencies for more bandwidth. Sure you need improved technology and research. But this is not a creative process.

    On the ancient innovations: What is innovative in noodles? Putting some corn, make wheat than dough and press is through some holes and let the whole things dry. Its an insult regarded for that.

    Same with printing. Dissolving same charcoal etc. in water and make a stamp you can “invent” from every potato is the boost in civilization? I pardon you.

    And silk. Who else can “innovate” some strings from the cocoon of a caterpillar only exist in china?

    China filed almost half the global patent applications in 2018 for instance (64.4%, compared to 18% originating from the US).

    Ever read patents from china? What i see is mostly BS. Hundreds of variations of always the same thing. Innovation level zero. Same in the US (and Europe too). Patents are a fake industry now. A weapon of political warfare between states and real innovations coming from outside the feudal caste systems. The few worth to mention are drowned in a ocean of stupidity.

    If you ever make a invention today, is it the best idea to show the whole world what you hav found in a so called – never able to defend – local patent?

  398. Meena says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Could Deng have happened without Mao or Chu en Lai? Did they build the necessary infrastructure and make the national space safe for the growth of the economy ?

    One of the problems of democracy is that it means voices of many people clamoring for attention and power. Unless the democracy is militarily and economically powerful , it remains liable for outside poisoning and manipulation .
    Look at the Democratic countries of UK , Germany , France , Sweden or India . They are pure vassals of USA . Racism allows European countries a better slice of the pie America offers while India has to accept much less .
    Democracy of this variety won’t be accepted in Islamic countries. Solution is dictatorship or dynastic government which can be manipulated by USA . Can also be toppled and replaced if necessary .

    China can’t afford this type of democracy unless it is ready to behave like Brazil or India .

    Democracy is overrated and presented as the final destination of humanity . It’s not .

    Gorbachev and Yeltsin proved that democracy can be a luxury .
    Authorization regimes might fail in Egypt or in Ethiopia or Colombia . Democracy would fail their also . Given a choice between democracy and authoritarianism , later has more chance of delivering the public good in the hands of persons like Mao or Putin .

    • Agree: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  399. @ruralguy

    “In China, the elderly are still revered. We traveled with my wife’s elderly parents. Everywhere we went, people’s focus was on them, to make sure they were comfortable. Strangers, would walk with them arm in arm”

    Well I hope it stays that way with the younger generations… Sadly – divorce is rising in China.

  400. @Franz

    “The USA traveled farther and faster because, keep in mind, the industries China is using now were developed here”

    Are you kidding? The Industrial Revolution started in Europe…

    Also – no the US didn’t. The middle class in China is larger than the whole US now… And comparatively – in 1916 the US not among the poorest of nations as China was in the 1970’s. In fact – the US was already the largest economy.

  401. @Astuteobservor II

    By opening your trap, you’re proving you’re indeed a fool… by all means, continue with your witless harangue.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  402. Agbars says:
    @Malla

    Take off your tinhat

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @AgBars
  403. @Malla

    Actually many Jamaicans did want to get repatriated… A whole religious movement was started based on that. A Jamaican immigrant to the US told blacks in Harlem – the same thing – let’s star our own ship line called “The Black Star Line” and move back to Africa. The man’s name was Marcus Garvey. Because he taught blacks to have self respect and leave the white man’s land – he was called “trouble” by the federal government. He was set up by a black agent to commit “mail fraud” and was deported back to Jamaica. You missed those parts of history I see.

  404. Vidi says:
    @Anon

    For instance, this is the Chinese and American per capita GDP at PPP and market Exchange rates:
    Your graph isn’t weighted by similar bases, which is why the numbers are misleading..

    Actually, your graph is the misleading one.

    Now, you can argue that the artificially high dollar plays a role in the divergent market exchange GDP, but the PPP numbers for America and China are both calculated by the IMF/WorldBank and they do not show China catching up to the US, just a divergence as this graph indicates.

    The petrodollar isn’t just artificially high, it’s been inflated by lots of money printing. The Federal Reserve has been printing so much money that, according to your graph, the US has been growing constantly faster than China — the American line has a higher slope — from 1962 to 2017 inclusive, which we know is not remotely true.

    In an attempt to compensate for some of the US’s financial trickery, I got some numbers directly from the World Bank (link to “GDP per capita, PPP (constant 2017 international $)”; download the CSV file) and made the following graph:

    We all know that China is not totally developed yet, and both of our graphs clearly show this. My graph, however, uses constant dollars, which removes the effects of inflation (money printing). But even this doesn’t show how quickly China has been catching up. So I used the same data, but computed yearly growth rates:

    Now the difference is clear: China’s annual growth rate (green line) is consistently far higher than the US’s.

    The second graph also shows that the US GDP has been growing about 2-3 percent a year. This seems rather good — until you remember that military spending is included in GDP.

    • Replies: @Vidi
    , @Anon
    , @Vidi
    , @Vidi
  405. Smith says:

    > America seethes in racial hatred; China, blessedly having only one race to amount to anything, does not.

    This is the key takeaway here.

    That’s one thing you can learn from chinks.

    Also, it’s not “blessedly” lol, there are governmental policies to keep it that way.

    Fred can see many similar sights when he goes to 90% racial homogeneous country, regardless of its wealth level (useless).

  406. Vidi says:
    @Vidi

    Hey Ron, why did you delete my graphs?
    They were fine in preview.

  407. Anonymous[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    To put things another way:

    Throughout history, nations have wanted their rivals to cease existing. But how to accomplish this? Well, that’s the thing.

    How do you get rid of a rival without risk of outright losing or very badly (in the nuclear age, terminally) damaging yourself in the process. Answer? You get someone else to do the heavy lifting. You find a “PATSY”.

    Consider the case of India, the United States and China.

    If you’re India, and you want China gone, you’re hoping the Americans nuke China (certainly getting nuked in turn), leaving you as the “tallest midget” on the world stage.

    If you’re the U.S. – same thing: India nukes China, India is annihilated in turn, and you go on your merry way.

    Here’s the problem. Who would be dumb enough to go to war, when the main beneficiary won’t be their annihilated selves, but a third party?

    No one, of course.

    And the way around that is simple – you “convince” your patsy that they can actually win AND SURVIVE against your intended rival. Of course, YOU know it’s total bullshit, but your patsy (the clueless nation you maneuvered into SELF-DESTRUCTION ON YOUR BEHALF) believes you.

    That is almost certainly the game being played by nations obsessed with China.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Vidi
  408. @Malla

    This is how a powerful West African ruler described his kingdom to a British soldier in the middle of the last century (19th century). Did not specify which Kingdom in West Africa though.

    That was the century before last, Rip. ;-} Time flies, don’t it?

    Thank you for the video and the description of it, Malla.

  409. @Colin Wright

    Oh honestly. Does it not occur to you that a Chinaman of 1820 would have said (with equal confidence):

    That would be really funny.

    You go right ahead. Recapitulate their mistake.

    People like you are why we find ourselves in our current state. If you BELIEVE in the greatness of your civilization, the sky is the limit.

    If you doubt it, you get what we have now.

    but is there some way you could it without me?

    Yeah, that phase is just beginning.

    Never be haughty to the humble, or humble to the haughty.

  410. @Meena

    In answer to your first question, Deng would have had a lot easier job if Mao hadn’t trashed the place economically, politically, and culturally for 27 years beforehand.

    Yes, democracy is overrated. That is why the Founders of this country formed a Constitutional Republic. Once the Constitution is treated like toilet paper because not enough principled men defend it, all bets are off. America had a pretty damn good greater than 200 year-run.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @GeneralRipper
  411. @Astuteobservor II

    You cannot just use the last 120 years as a metric as during that entire time China was basically in a limbo.

    Yes you can. Because the last 200 years have seen by far the most major innovations of mankind in history.

    Stop apologizing for the Chinese, dude. Who cares what was happening to them while the Wests was inventing literally everything?

    I honestly don’t get where the Chinese can’t innovate comes from. Do you chant this to help you sleep better at night? It is a ridiculous claim. If the Chinese can’t innovate, why the economic war right now?

    No, you’re not being honest. I’ve told you via 4 comments at least where that idea comes from. It’s not a ridiculous claim, it’s the truth. The economic war right now is due to the Chinese stealing and then improving the innovations of the West, which I’ve said 8 times now is what the Chinese do: imitate and improve.

    Please reveal your real Chinese name in your next reply. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  412. @God's Fool

    The God’s shit has spoken. So it must be. Lol.

    Retard.

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  413. KenH says:

    It’s hard to disagree with most of what Fredrico writes in this column but even though China is on the rise many of its people still seek to live in America, Australia and New Zealand probably to colonize what will soon be conquered lands. The Chinese are proud and not wallowing in racial self hatred and wishing for yellow genocide. They do not worship blacks and Jews and make past sins the centerpiece of their educational system. In that regard they have a big leg up on Western nations.

    If China ever conquers America they will not tolerate any monkey business from the negro population (pun intended) nor can they be racially guilt tripped like dumbshit whitey. Chinese overlords would make the KKK look like a human rights organization in regards to treatment of blacks.

    Of course, we all know that May-hee-co is still the best nation on the planet.

  414. @restless94110

    Suit yourself. But China/Chinese are very interested in improving themselves– especially by learning from the successful experience of others, including its/their enemies’!!!
    .
    Good luck to you too.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  415. @gavishti

    What demands did China make?

    Didn’t the current shit show between China n India started when Indian soldiers crossed the line of actual control and attacked the Chinese side. That would make India the aggressor this time around. Same as 1962.

    I would be honest, if I was in control of China and foreign troops enter my country(no real borders, just lines of actual control in those areas), they would all be in body bags.

    Same logic I applied to my home. You enter uninvited with hostile intentions? You get bullets from my gun.

  416. @anon

    Youth bulge only applies in agrarian societies imo. First son inherits, all others must go n fend for themselves. That translates to outward expansion = war.

  417. http://conservativewriters.org/Are_white_men_gods_(II)

    Are the white men Gods?

    Yeah, pretty much…or at least Christian Civilization which gives glory to God.

  418. denk says:
    @GeneralRipper

    Does Fred in Mexico, or “Godfree” Roberts or Kevin Barret or any of the myriad expat Asian pussy addicts really believe that the Chinese do not imbibe their children in the belief that they are exceptional

    Projection, more projection…..

    May be.

    But you leave us with no doubt .

    FUKUS unilaterally impose sanction..
    https://news.antiwar.com/2020/09/21/trump-admin-unilaterally-imposes-un-sanction-on-iran/

    The world disagree.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/9/20/us-claims-un-sanctions-on-iran-reinstated-the-world-disagrees

    • Replies: @GeneralRipper
  419. @d dan

    [China likes to treat India as equal, not a small or big brother.]
    .
    Yes, but does the other side want to treat China as equal?
    .
    ‘The problem is that India does not quite know its place. This makes sense when one considers its vision of its past and its expectations of its future. Independent India inherited the Raj’s armies — the peacekeepers of Asia and Africa — and with them, the Raj’s self-image as dominant east of Aden. It has always viewed itself as at least China’s equal in spite of the 1962 loss — and even as its northern neighbor raced ahead economically. That was a minor setback, Indians feel; eventually we’ll .. ‘
    .
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/view-indias-faceoff-with-china-in-sikkim-is-a-sign-of-the-future/articleshow/59692536.cms
    .
    “The problem is that” China happens to be in the “east of Aden.”!!!

    • Replies: @Malla
  420. denk says:
    @Deep Thought

    Actually India has been hogging the top ten spots in the most polluted cities chart for years.

    Trouble is, you’d never know it listening to the [[[five liars]]] bullhorn, blaring 24×7 on the Chinese smog.

  421. @Astuteobservor II

    ‘…What evidence do you have that the Chinese govt is a vicious dictatorship that represses every one in China?’

    That’s not what I said in the first place.

  422. KA says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    WhatMao did ,according to certain figures, assuming those were not faked or manufactured by the same historical minds that invaded the brains of Iraq war ,gulf war,Syrian war, and Somalian wars peddlers , would count definitely as atrocity . But that verdict has to wait. We need to hear from China .
    Assuming that those figures are accurate ,it still doesn’t hold a candle to the atrocities US has been committing and has over the centuries at home, and abroad.

    Could America have achieved the success without the externalities inflicted on other at home and abroad ?

    Problem is not democracy or autocracy. It’s struggle for resources . More organized and more militarily powerful often settle the case to its favor .

    We are yet to see one ,yes , one example that shows America has allowed at least on one occasion, unfettered evolution of another country free from its intervention.

    Intervention provokes a counter response . Mao’s ,after hundred years of cannibalism and after false standard of hope liberty raised by Chiang Kaishek , had to make sure China had not reverted back to 1900 opium soaked penury and misery with eternal hope of Haiti soaked with western pity and charity .

    He did a good job.

  423. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, that China vs. India conversation – I couldn’t give a rat’s ass

    Trump is stoking a nuclear tinderbox.
    He tell Achmed
    ‘BOy , go play yourself.
    Daddy has some serious biz to do’

    Achmed the good German murikkan
    ‘ok dad, I’ll play myself some music’

    Thats how ww1, ww2 was launched.

  424. Ron Unz says:
    @Ray Caruso

    So while it’s certainly true that some in the White nationalist/alt-right communities are China haters, it’s equally certain that many others are not, and I would guess the latter are the majority. It seems to me, moreover, that the China haters tend to be those with more conventional “conservative” views.

    Yes, that’s exactly my own impression. For example, the overwhelming majority of WNs despise Trump and detest FoxNews, but a small minority of the less sophisticated or newer ones have more mainstream-rightwing views, and those are the main China-haters.

    Another factor is that this close to the election, I’m sure the Trump people are spreading around lots of money, and some of it must be going to WNs or quasi-WNs. So if Trump ferociously denounces China, all of them do as well…

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @The Real World
  425. Malla says:
    @Agbars

    Stop being a chump and take the red pill.

  426. @Ray Caruso

    Wasn’t there a poll that showed 70% of Americans now either dislike or hate China?

    Wouldn’t that apply to the white nationalists too? I would argue it applies even heavier than the 70% poll amount W/Ns

    • Replies: @Biff
  427. @Anonymous

    Damn.

    Point well made.

    You made a way clearer picture of the situation than I ever could. I hope Indian anons with brains reads this.

  428. denk says:
    @restless94110

    You dont know who’s
    mike [we lie, we cheat, we rob] pompass ?

    pompass clone ?
    Anyone who still push the big lie about ‘Chinese invasion 1962‘ should qualifies.

    For exhibit A.,

    I did ask you to check out bombercommand ?

    The Five Fingers of Tibet policy is the reason for the border clashes since 1962. Notice the timeline: invasion of Tibet 1959, border clashes with India beginning 1962,

  429. @denk

    Oh we proud up in here, boy.

  430. @Ron Unz

    I’m curious as to how you are so aware of what “white nationalists” believe?

    Also, exactly where are those people? I have always perceived them to be quite small in actual numbers, not nationally-organized and mostly mythological. Frankly, I always roll my eyes when the media refers to them.

    Am I missing something?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  431. Biff says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Wasn’t there a poll that showed 70% of Americans now either dislike or hate China?

    Affirmative, I’ve seen the poll, and it begs the question – how do you get such a large amount of people the garner an emotional opinion about a place that 99% of them have never been too?

    Incidentally, that’s the same percentage of Americans(70%) that thought in 2002 that Iraq had WMD, and should be attacked.

    (Hint: the media)

    A recent poll of Americans – 51% believe George Bush is to blame for current Iraq violence and disfunction.
    (Media gets another pass)

    BTW, Russia hacked the election.

  432. @restless94110

    Are you deliberately being obtuse or are just that dense? You don’t appear stupid.

    My first paragraph in my last reply was simply pointing out the fact that China wasn’t even participating in the game of innovation in the last 150 years. How do you judge a competitor if they aren’t even competing? Especially since you are deliberately choosing the years it isn’t competing? You want answers, watch the next 3 to 5 decades. China has finally cought up somewhat, once on the bleeding edge, innovate or be buried in mediocrity.

    What 4 comments, are you all right? I think Colin’s right that it has become a comforting shebloth for anons like you.

    Just FYI, English is my second language. I am in the process of learning Chinese Mandarin (only 65% fluent even after 3.5 years). Want to guess my race? Lol. China is my only interest right now. It has my undivided attention. You could even call it an obsession.

    About stealing, reverse engineering, you need to drink less msm koolaid.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  433. @Badger Down

    The hutzpah of some of the commentators here is breathtaking.

    Honestly, even if you didn’t know anything about Chinese history, a quick 5-minute search on the internet would have turned up a dozen or more articles about 19th century American perfidy and opium smuggling.

    Here’s an article about John Jacob Astor, entitled “America’s First Multimillionaire Got Rich Smuggling Opium.”

    Not so long ago it was only the ‘crazy revisionist historians’ who were making the very controversial claim that the industrial revolution in the West was really funded by the enormous profits from the China opium trade, but now so-called mainstream news outlets like WBUR-FM, Boston’s NPR, is also making the claim indirectly, or at least, as it pertains to the rise of Boston, if not the rise of American Capitalism: “How Profits From Opium Shaped 19th-Century Boston”

    Actually, the article in question is already 3 years old, so you really have to wonder how ignorant are the people making comments here about China. I quote a relevant passage from the article:

    Of course, not everyone struck it rich trading in opium. It was a competitive, highly volatile market. But those who worked for Perkins and a few other firms became the city’s elite — otherwise known as Boston Brahmins. The Cabots, Cushings, Welds, Delanos (the grandfather of Franklin Delano Roosevelt) and Forbes all built fortunes on opium.

    “That money changes the face of Boston and makes it possible for Boston to develop a reputation as one of the world’s true civic cities,” said Salem State University historian Dane Morrison.

    In a city steeped in history, very few residents understand the powerful legacy of opium money.

    Don’t get me started on Warren Delano Jr., another crypto-Jew and the maternal grandfather of the 32nd President of the United States, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who made his fortune by smuggling opium into China.

    Cf. “Clipper Ship Owners Made Millions. Others Paid the Price.” (Clipper ships traveled at blistering speeds but conditions on board were brutal, and opium was their most profitable cargo) by Simon Worrall

  434. Ron Unz says:
    @The Real World

    I’m curious as to how you are so aware of what “white nationalists” believe?

    Also, exactly where are those people? I have always perceived them to be quite small in actual numbers, not nationally-organized and mostly mythological. Frankly, I always roll my eyes when the media refers to them.

    Well, at least from my perspective, it’s almost entirely an online movement, centered around something like 10-15 different websites and organizations. Since we republish some of their articles, I visit those websites pretty frequently to see what they’ve run, and occasionally even read their comment-threads.

    Four or five of our regular columnists and bloggers are WNs, so if you want to know what they think, you can just read their archives. I’d put Eric Striker, Gregory Hood, Paul Kersey, and Trevor Lynch clearly in that category, and probably Guillaume Durocher as well. Maybe Audacious Epigone.

    Some of the leading WN websites are run by Jared Taylor, Kevin MacDonald, and Greg Johnson, and we regularly republish many of their articles. VDare is more like a quasi-WN website, and I’d probably put John Derbyshire, Steve Sailer, and Michelle Malkin in that category as well. Since Derb’s wife is Chinese and Malkin is Filipino, it would be kind of ridiculous to call them WNs…

    Except maybe for VDare, you almost never see any China-bashing on those websites, at least compared with the China-bashing I see each morning in my New York Times and Wall Street Journal. A rightwing site like Breitbart is absolutely not WN, and from what I’ve heard it’s 24-7 China-bashing.

    There are also lots of trashy/lowbrow WN websites and forums, but since they mostly publish junk I never go there, and can’t really describe their position on China. I tend to doubt those have much influence in WN circles compared with the ones I mentioned above.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @Truth
  435. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    There will be no contained war between India and China unless it’s small scale like 1962 —- small scale compared to what can be unleashed now. Hybrid war like Syria will be more like it, but still even that is difficult to envision. Even North Korea has proved a hard nut to crack.

    You talk about India joining US in South China sea and reveal your lack of analysis—- and Pakistan will be where when US and India attack China? What about Iran? and Russia? —— allies to each group will rally around. Period. Nobody will nuke nobody and expect the rest of the world to sit around in fear and not join in. All will join in into the greatest war mankind has ever fought if nukes are used, and the destruction of man as we know him shall be fulfilled as predicted by enough religions and scientists.

  436. Hacienda says:
    @Ron Unz

    Malkin is Filipino, it would be kind of ridiculous to call them WNs…

    You don’t have to be white to be completely in line with the positions of WNs. There are a least a couple of posters here that are not white I would consider WNs. Malle for one, Twinkie is another. There are non-whites so thoroughly convinced that the right way is the white way- proven by enough historical accomplishments and force of argumentation that to argue white genetic superiority is a mere triviality.

    But whereas Malle and Twinkie at least give reasons and historical information and are extremely knowledgeable in presenting their side, I haven’t seen anything of such detail from Malkin. I only know her from her rather shrill positions- anti-immigration, pro border walls, defense of Confederate symbols, police power. She seems to me to be the perfect example of an Asian that’s been turned inside out, de-skinned, de-lineaged. Of course, she will have HAPA kids, but it will be a liberation for her, a relief from her Asianness, Filipino-ness. Hardly affirmation of her racial background. As if there is nothing positive to be found in being Filipino. She is a version of an inarticulate white nationalism.

  437. Truth says:
    @Ron Unz

    Since Derb’s wife is Chinese and Malkin is Filipino, it would be kind of ridiculous to call them WNs…

    Well, the fraternity doesn’t exactly require geniuses; or have high qualifications.

  438. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    I missed responding to your tripe about Bantu men killing the pygmy men and taking their women. Firstly, provide a source for your assertion. Secondly, the superior always attracts the females of the others. That is well known. Even a nigger like Jack Johnson the heavyweight boxing champion had female white companions at the height of racial discrimination against freed black slaves. His father was a slave. Where were the whites? Exterminated by Johnson? Bantu women did not take pygmy men because of farming ( pygmy never farmed and so could not guarantee feeding the family like bantu men), Bantu had already ascertained that farming was superior to hunting and gathering only Also, pygmy men were way shorter and most females even to this day rarely want to get married to such “inferior” men ( inferior in quotes because its about strengthening her progeny and not weakening it. Back then, the emphasis was to have strong both Male and female to guarantee survival of the family). The males could afford to try other women being African societies were mostly patriarchal .

    You are too dense to see that hunting was very cumbersome. After you kill your buffalo, how do you carry it back to you 10 children? And even with being nomadic, you had to stalk your prey. How to kill it close to home? So you could kill it, but could you carry it back home? But with your small family, you could carry enough to feed them comfortably. That is why agriculture was a game changer. You could have your food with you.

    Even simple logic is not easy for you, is it? Talk about huge pygmy groups but from where? Why no large nilotic groups or cushitic groups. But pygmy, you claim they occupied all of Africa. Sources? None. I malla said so. I am deity that can decree that other races had no ability to conquer because if they had, they would have conquered and therefore it’s not a moral issue but a lack of ability issue. I remember that logic before. They were more moral because having the ability to conquer, they restrained themselves and didn’t conquer? No they conquered due to their ability but it was not a moral issue because they are better humans. Why are they better? Err because they conquered? Malla – you don’t understand, they had better weapons and all, that was their superior ability and if the others had such ability, they would have done worse. Oh how do you know that malla? Because I just said so.

    Pffft just shut up. I said it before, you are just Intelligent enough to gather information but you can’t analyse and synthesise collected information and when you are proven wrong in your misrepresentation of facts, you are too dishonest and lacking any integrity to concede and change your thinking. Down the road when you think nobody is noticing, back to your tripe you go —– like a dog to its vomit.

  439. Biff says:

    Except maybe for VDare, you almost never see any China-bashing on those websites, at least compared with the China-bashing I see each morning in my New York Times and Wall Street Journal.

    I rest my case.

  440. Malla says:
    @martin_2

    Yes, this reminds me of all those Afrocentrists claiming Egypt as their own. The point is most of the research on ancient Egypt was done by YTs not blacks not Arabs. Others just claim after YT has done the hard work.

    I hope you have read my post on James Princep (post 68 on this page), a genius who opened the locks to the mysteries of ancient India. The greatest persona in the field of Indian Historical studies ever till date.James Princep: The genius who told us Indians about the glory of ancient Indian
    Of course our anti-British racist xenophobic Indian history text books do not teach about him. Had it not been for him (and some other scholars like Jones), we would have no idea of Emperor Ashoka as well as other the genealogy as well as territories of pre Islamic Indian kingdoms. Bollywood even made a movie on Ashoka, made millions of Rupees but those greedy Bollywood fatcats never deciphered an ancient Indian script. However we Indians were kind enough to name a ghat of Calcutta after him to show our gratitude with a monument to him, even tho our school textbooks ignore his name but keep prating about Ashoka, Mauryas etc,.. and our superior Indian civilization!!!

    • Replies: @Ponder
  441. Wielgus says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    A French cartoon circa 1900 showed European powers and the Japanese literally cutting up China like a pie (some of them clearly hostile to one another) while a Chinese mandarin with long fingernails shows ineffectual alarm.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  442. Moi says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I guess American genocide of the native peoples, import of slaves were not pure evil.

  443. @Astuteobservor II

    My first paragraph in my last reply was simply pointing out the fact that China wasn’t even participating in the game of innovation in the last 150 years. How do you judge a competitor if they aren’t even competing?

    I had already answered that earlier when I replied that it was the very conformist lack of innovation in China that weakened them to the point they were colonized. The former inventors of paper and gunpowder centuries before had lost that ability, again something I discussed earlier in this comment thread.

    China has finally cought (sic) up somewhat, once on the bleeding edge, innovate or be buried in mediocrity.

    They never have caught up somewhat or otherwise. They still are not innovating. Come on, man. Improving on another people’s ideas is not innovation.

    The rest of your reply is misguided ad hominem nonsense. My comments have nothing to do with msm anything and the only specific reference I have mentioned is solid scholarship. You make it clear that you do not know how to backtrack to see my 4 comments,, and I have no idea who Colin is nor do I care what he thinks about anything,, however mistaken.

    Finally I don’t care to play guessing games about your nationality, but it’s even more clear you are a brain dead apologizer for China, and have a gigantic blind spot when it comes to Chinese conformity.

    So, go ahead, knock yourself out. Learn Mandarin, another example of the idiocy of the Chinese culture. (pictograms instead of syllables? lol). Good luck, Xi Chen Pung, or whatever your name is (P.S.,, Don’t tell Colin that AstuteeObserver is your anon name you hide behind; he might have thought that was your real name)

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  444. @Deep Thought

    Well put. They can’t innovate so they imitate, which has always been my point, unwaveringly.

    I am so glad you changed and are now agreeing. You coulda done that like 5 comments ago, but hey,, better late than never.

  445. @restless94110

    This is what you had admitted:
    .
    “restless94110 says: The Chinese did invent gunpowder and the gun.”
    .
    All white guns are therefore imitations of the Chinese invention.
    .
    Now it is imitation time yet again:
    .
    “How Silicon Valley turned imitation into the most insincere form of flattery”
    .
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/08/08/silicon-valley-turned-imitation-insincere-form-flattery/
    .
    But is still out-smarted:
    .
    “How TikTok outsmarted Facebook”
    .
    https://hbr.org/2020/07/how-spotify-and-tiktok-beat-their-copycats
    .
    Hence, Dumbo Trump turns to outright robbery instead.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  446. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    Thank you for a very well reasoned post. Firstly if I am not mistaken, the Mongols wanted an Empire from the Pacific to the Atlantic. And this primarily included China, Japan, Korea in the East and Russia, Ukraine, Germany, Poland, Italy etc… all the way to France, Britain& Ireland in the West. The Mongols were actually not that much interested in Southern lands in the beginning. The Mongols did not show much interest in India even thought they did raid from time to time and were once defeated by the Delhi Sultanate but the invasion was a small raid and the defeat a fluke. Of course their Mughal descendants (Babur was descended from Ghenghis Khan from his mother’s side and ‘Mughal’ is the Persian term for Mongol) did conquer India later on. The Mongols initially had no interest in the Middle Eastern World and the subsequent destruction of the Grand city of Baghdad, it was the arrogant (stupid) behaviour of the Persians towards Mongol envoys (the Persians did not know what they were dealing with actually), which brought the Mongol war machine into the Middle Eastern World and decimated the Middle Eastern World. For the Muslims it was like Gog and Magog had made a show, ya rite, you know stories and tales. It were the Muslim Persians who behaved like Gog in the first place. The Mongols were even not interested in conquering Dai Viet down in Vietnam, They only wanted passage to get at and cut off supplies to Southern Song. The Vietnamese being Vietnamese gave them a big middle finger and the rest is history. The Mongols attacked, conquered the capital but thanks to scorched earth policy by the Viets, got their asses handed to them. The Viets were already getting practice for hat they would be using against Muricans centuries later.
    The Mongols did interfere deep south in Indonesia but that is because Kublai Khan near his death bed wanted one grand expansion. However the Indonesian campaign ended in a shitshow for the Mongols as their Indonesian allies back-stabbed them after their combined force defeated the Kediri Kingdom.
    In other words the Mongols were more interested in the Northern lands then in the South. Kind of reminds me of Stalin who unlike Trotsky was not interested in spreading colonialism in the Global South but only in Europe via the Red Army (unlike Trotsky’s Communist cells tecnique).

    The Mongols were quite serious in conquering Japan. The Mongol invasion of Japan was huge, sending huge fleets. In the second invasion two huge fleets were sent, one from newly conquered Southern China. There was even a third planned invasion and fleet built but that fleet was sent to Vietnam to take revenge for its first defeat. The Mongols definitely wanted Japan.
    Kublai Khan sent a letter to Japan’s Kamakura Shogunate asking them to surrender and join the Mongol Empire. The Mongols have conquered Russia, Islamic World, China, Korea and now Kublai Khan wanted Japan to bend down to the Khans. Japan’s Govt ignored his letter. After the first invasion, the Japanese realising that the Mongols had a war technique being different. Tsushima and Iki were conquered and destroyed, inhabitants slaughtered. Even then the more heavily armoured Samurai defeat the Mongols in some areas.
    In the second invasion after the conquest of Southern Song, the Japanese had built coastal walls preventing the Mongol fleet from creating a beach head. And contrary to popular belief it was only the Kamikaze Storms which saved Japan, the truth is Samurais Kawano Michiari and Takezaki Suenaga would lead boats full of Samurai and attack the Mongol ships. In such close quarter combat the Japanese with their superior swords and swordsmanship had an advantage over the Mongols unlike in open field warfare.
    And interesting fact. After the Mongol navy is destroyed by the divine winds, the survivors on japanese shores were hunted down and killed. Every Mongol, Korean and Northern Chinese were killed. but the Japanese spare the lives of Soithern Chinese. The Japanese considered the newly conquered Southern Chinese as fellow sufferers of Mongol invasions and did not consider them responsible for the invasion.
    So no, I understand what you are saying that after conquering the “superior, civilized Chinese and Persians” the Mongols would not bother with “barbarian monkeys” Japanese and Western Europeans. Nope, the Mongols took conquests of Western Europe and Japan very seriously. Why would the Mongosl Empire launch two huge invasion fleets and a planned third one? They wanted an empire from the Pacific to the Atlantic, given the chance they would have gone conquering all the way to France and Britain up to the shores of the Atlantic. And as Mr. Urbani says, this is historical fact that the moment the Mongols see the fortified castles of Western Europe, they stop. They realise they were dealing with a much more difficult situation for which they were not ready.

  447. Ponder says:
    @Malla

    This reminds you of all those afrocentrists who claim Egypt as their own while it’s the whites that did the research……….

    You are really not butthurt about Africans aren’t you? So now, the researchers of existing whatever have become the builders of it eh? What logic is this? Oh yes, I remember it, like doctor Livingstone was the first man to discover mt. Kenya. Who led him there? Chief Kivoi did. So, who knew about mt. Kenya first? Doctor Livingstone.

    The researchers found out that mitochondrial eve was from east Africa. Hurrah, the researcher can now claim mitochondrial eve was white because the researcher found her. That is indeed Malla’s reasoning, logic and bigotry. Very pathetic to witness. Enough to feel sorry for dude had it not been for his astronomical arrogance and haughty persona. Another mental midget trying his best to belittle blacks. Go back to belittling oh wait, you belittle everyone else including fellow Indians. Why are you a hindu again? Why not become a christian seeing “stupid” Indians believe in what must be indeed an inferior religion by an inferior race to whites? Why not go full retarded?

    • Replies: @Malla
  448. @Deep Thought

    What a lamer. My response was the inventions were in the distant past and then innovation stopped. You keep on making the assertion,and the reply is still the same. That’s 500-700 years ago, dude. Give it a rest.

    Tik Tok is a copy and/or an improvement on an American innovation.

    Trump is not robbing anything from anybody. Because his intel is that it is an app that spies he is insisting it be sold to an American company..

    You got it wrong and keep getting it wrong. You are the Dumbo. Get the cure for your TDS. Go to China. Stay there and conform. I’m sure Xi will be more to your liking.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
    , @denk
  449. @Wielgus

    The Chinese Mandarin class had their entire way of living dependent upon keeping things the same. That was why China missed both industrial revolutions. They had reformers, all were brutally put down.

    I 1000% put the blame of China’s weakness in the hundred year humiliation squarely on them.

    That situation is not unlike the current situation in the USA. The entrenched businesses needs to keep things the same. Ex: the current telecom business. They have all the lines laid. Earning 1$ for every cent of operating costs. Why spend hundreds of billions every 10 years just to earn the same money for 5g or 6g? And if all else fails, lobby the govt to rob the new tech from the inventing country or company. We already did that to the French, trying to do that with the Chinese now.

    • Replies: @Deep Thought
    , @Ron Unz
  450. @Hacienda

    There’s one more slight possibility you seem to have missed, Hacienda. Maybe, just maybe, Mrs. Malkin reads, observes, and learns, so that she understands that a multicultural Tower of Babel, the out-of-control black worship and ass-kissing, the destruction of the cultural history, and the rise of the Commie antifa gang are bad for the future of this country. She’s been in America a long time, and has at least a near-adult-age daughter here*.

    Is it just possible that some people know what’s right and want to do right for America? Why would Michelle Malkin care that much about the Philippines other than what’s up with her family over there? I’m not sure what is shrill about her, unless you mean just literally, her being small and a woman. She’s gonna have a hard time sounding like Barry White, you know? (I just assumed you meant in the figurative sense in her writing.)

    I do think that Mrs. Malkin had some of that Neocon view long ago, but many “conservatives” go through that phase before they realize that both squads of “The Party” are part of the stupidity and evil, one just moreso than the other. Regarding her views on the cops, she may have learned something very recently from that “support the LEOs” rally in which almost all the cops stood down and watched her and her cohorts get attacked, due to “following my orders, going home safe, gotta get that pension in 10 more years …” She wrote about this, and she is pretty damned articulate, it turns out.

    PS: She also writes a lot about the Orwellian electronic surveillance stuff that goes on in the government schools now. I haven’t read much of this from other pundits, though I’ve seen it in person. Long live Michelle Malkin, wherever she’s from.

    .

    * Sorry, I can’t recall if she has other kid(s) besides.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @Adam Smith
  451. @restless94110

    You are the lamer. Inventions of the distant past are also proofs that the Chinese can invent.
    .
    Here are a few very current inventions that are listed– in addition to ancient inventions of the Chinese.
    .
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions
    .
    Modern (1912–present)

    Artemisinin, Tu Youyou, Project 523, Dihydroartemisinin.

    Carbon aerogel: In 2013, scientists at Zhejiang University created a carbon aerogel weighing in at 0.16 mg/cc, breaking the record for the world’s lightest substance.[617]

    Electronic cigarette: Hon Lik, a Chinese pharmacist, is credited with the invention of the modern electronic cigarette. In 2003, he came up with the idea of using a piezoelectric ultrasound-emitting element to vaporise a pressurized jet of liquid containing nicotine diluted in a propylene glycol solution. This design produces a smoke-like vapour that can be inhaled and provides a vehicle for nicotine delivery into the bloodstream via the lungs. He also proposed using propylene glycol to dilute nicotine and placing it in a disposable plastic cartridge which serves as a liquid reservoir and mouthpiece.[618]

    Non-invasive prenatal diagnostic testing for Down Syndrome: Previously, women underwent invasive testing such as amniocentesis or chorionic villus sampling (CVS). This new maternal blood test has the potential to reduce the number of women referred for invasive testing for Down syndrome by 98 percent. Developed by Chinese researchers in Hong Kong in 2008, this is hailed as a breakthrough.[619]

    Passenger drone: The world’s first passenger drone, a drone capable of carrying human cargo, Ehang 184 was unveiled at the Computer Electronics Show (CES) 2016 by Chinese entrepreneurs.[620][621]

    Synthetic bovine insulin: In 1965, Chinese scientists synthesized bovine insulin, with the “same crystalline form and biological activities as natural insulin.”[622][623] The project began in 1958, and is considered one of the “first proteins ever synthesized in vitro.”[624]

    Stem cell educator therapy: Chinese and US researchers have produced remarkable results for this new treatment of obtaining stem cells from human cord blood to “re-educate” misbehaving immune cells. This result was published in the open-access journal BMC Medicine in January 2012, and offers hope for Type 1 diabetics and potentially may also be used to treat other auto-immune diseases if the approach lives up to early promise.[625][626]
    .
    Now, it is your turn to give me a list of American inventions that are MORE than 500 to 700 years old!!!
    .
    Trump’s intel seeded Wuhan with Covid 19 using the 300 Amelikan military personnel who visited there and then falsel accuse China for it.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  452. @restless94110

    You seem awfully quick, jumping the gun, at judging the Chinese. Almost falling over yourself, lol.

    Are you feeling insecure that the Chinese will leave you in the dust? Lol. Have some confidence.

    You mean the same current Chinese elite and govt doing constant trials before implementing a policy is conformist? By not following all the retarded isms coming out of the west and forging their own is being a conformist?

    It is weird how you judge their innovativeness on the 150 years of non participation and used the same leadership during that same time to judge the current Chinese leadership.

    Is it deliberate? Very slick.

    You asked about my race, then proclaimed you have no interest in the very next reply. Proceeds to 100% vehemently claim I am Chinese while using the juvenile Chinese name attack of grade schoolers. And unless I conform to your view about the lack of Chinese innovativeness, I am a Chinese apologize.

    You got a few screws loose and there is nothing ad hominem about that.

    My take. Watch the next 30 to 50 years.

    Oh, just to help you out a little, look up the definition for innovation and invention. Especially the nice comparison between the two. Lol.

  453. @Astuteobservor II

    Thus spake Astute Asshole II, the Eunuch of China…

  454. @Astuteobservor II

    [That situation is not unlike the current situation in the USA. The entrenched businesses needs to keep things the same. Ex: the current telecom business. They have all the lines laid. Earning 1$ for every cent of operating costs. Why spend hundreds of billions every 10 years just to earn the same money for 5g or 6g?]
    .
    That was how they got the B-737 MAX too. The 737 airframe is clearly outdated and cannot safely accommodate modern high by-pass turbofans. Instead of spending multi-billions of dollars to develop a new airframe, they put some sort of electronic patch on the plane and managed to turn it into a flying coffin!!! ;-D, ;-D, ;-D

  455. Ron Unz says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    The Chinese Mandarin class had their entire way of living dependent upon keeping things the same. That was why China missed both industrial revolutions. They had reformers, all were brutally put down.

    I 1000% put the blame of China’s weakness in the hundred year humiliation squarely on them.

    That situation is not unlike the current situation in the USA.

    For anyone interested, here’s a book about China from over a century ago by E.R. Ross, one of America’s greatest early sociologists, who spent about half a year studying the country:

    https://www.unz.com/book/e_a_ross__the-changing-chinese/

    When I read it some years ago, I was struck by the difficulties industrialists then faced in that country when they wanted to build railroads or other development projects, and how much it reminded me of America’s similar problems today.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Rdm
  456. @Astuteobservor II

    Can someone explain to me why Fentanyl is popular with rural whites? How is it shipped from China to the US sticks and manages to bypass the whole Requiem for a Dream crowd to hit farmer John?

    In the old days, it was Italians shipping in pizza boxes and a bunch of Jews on Coney Island were heroin addicts.

    Now granted, I’ve been out of America since 1999. But what changed?

  457. [When I read it some years ago, I was struck by the difficulties industrialists then faced in that country when they wanted to build railroads …]
    .
    I read somewhere that, when the first railway was to be built in China, the locals objected to it because they believed that it would ruin the local “feng shui”.
    .
    The Chinese had “feng shui” and the West has “ethical conduct”. But in this case (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50944461) China had succumbed to Western pressure.

  458. GammaRay says:
    @Ron Unz

    with all due respect, I feel like you have misportrayed my position on this. First of all, what constitutes a “white nationalist” is quite subjective. Due to this, your definition of what constitutes a white nationalist appears to be different than the definition that I was using:

    Now, I do think it is important to consider the issue of semantics as well. Perhaps the group that you are envisioning when you speak of white nationalists is a different group than the one that im envisioning, when I use the term white nationalist I use it as a catchall term for people that are vaguely right wing and pro-white. To me for most intents and purposes, white nationalist is basically interchangeable with say, something like “alt-right”.

    (comment #262)

    Since our definitions of what constitutes a white nationalist are different, you cannot claim that im incorrect by using a definition of white nationalist that I was never using in the first place. Something equally important to consider is the fact that I was never claiming to be providing the sole definition of what constitutes a white nationalist. I was always upfront and honest about the fact that there could be different ideas of what constitutes a white nationalist and that the definition of white nationalist that I was providing was my own subjective one and nothing else. BTW I noticed that you wrote this in your latest response to another commenter:

    Except maybe for VDare, you almost never see any China-bashing on those websites, at least compared with the China-bashing I see each morning in my New York Times and Wall Street Journal. A rightwing site like Breitbart is absolutely not WN, and from what I’ve heard it’s 24-7 China-bashing.

    it appears that your metric regarding the “white nationalists hate china” issue revolves around the quantity of negative articles that are published about china by white nationalist sites. Im assuming that you were using this same metric in your rebuttal of my original comment. Assuming that this is the case then you misunderstood what I was actually saying. I was never basing my opinion on the idea that white nationalists websites publish lots of anti-chinese stories, rather I was always basing my opinion on my own experience in having read countless comments sections in WN sites and various exchanges that ive had with people in these comments sections:

    with all due respect, and I do mean this because I always appreciate a respectful reply, I dont agree with your take on white nationalists. Having lots of experience browsing white nationalists hangouts, and having read thousands and thousands of their comments on various topics…

    (comment #262)

    In all fairness, this is not something that would have been apparent from the individual co