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China and America: Scoping Out the Megacepts
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Today, regarding China and America, we will have Thought Most Potent, adequate to lube a diesel, curdle milk, or seal a driveway. Whole departments of international studies will close their doors in despair. Ha.

Why, we ask, does it seem that the Middle Kingdom advances speedily on so many fronts, while the US doesn’t? The clear conclusion seems to be that China is superior, not across the board, but in enough ways to ensure its soon global primacy. Apparently the only way a Washington incapable of reform can stop this is with war.

To begin, China has a superior political system. Most importantly, it is not a democracy. An American conceit is that democracy is good and more democracy, better. Unfortunately, the truth is that more democracy means worse results. Placing governance in the hands of the empty-headed, dimwitted, and inattentive, these being the most numerous classes, inevitably leads to disaster.

Further, democracy is a self-deepening evil: That is, it tends to worsen with time. Those who profit by the votes of the appallingly ignorant majority urge the enfranchisement of the yet dimmer, as for example those too feckless to have identification, the barely literate, pubescents of sixteen years, and acknowledged felons (as distinct from those felons as yet undetected in government). This is said chirpily to be “Inclusive,” and is, which is what is wrong with it. The dumber welcome the yet dumber. Down and downer we go until, in all likelihood, fire hydrants and stray cats have the vote. Why is this good?

Those who laud patriotism without necessarily being able to spell it say, well, at least we are not a horrid authoritarian country like China. Americans are suckled from birth on the notion that authoritarianism is bad, and quickly conflate authoritarians with dictators, who are then said to be just like Hitler.

But China is not a dictatorship. It is an authoritarian oligarchy of technocrats. This has advantages. For example, an authoritarian government can put the intelligent and qualified in positions of responsibility.

This China does. Xi Jingping holds degrees in chemical engineering and law. Trump is a real-estate con man blankly ignorant of technology, history, geography, and government. China’s managers are heavy on engineers, scientists, and economists, America’s on provincial lawyers and petty demagogues.

Americans are also told that they have more freedoms than do the Chinese. They do, but the gap is less than we might like to think, and closing. Freedom of speech? In America you cannot say anything against backs, feminists, transgenders, Israel, Jews, Hispanics, black crime, affirmative action, or abortion, or in favor of the police, the Second Amendment, white rights, or the South. Politically disapproved sites, mostly conservative, are rapidly being shut down.

None of this is being done by the formal government. It is being done. Lincoln said that you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. The American principle is that you can fool enough of the people enough of the time.

In a democracy the rabble, sensing their numerical advantage, will always try to pull their superiors down. They will not make an effort, probably futile, to rise. A central strain in American culture is hostility to elitism, which means a preference for the better to the worse. The deep resentment of the superior leads to a celebration of inadequacy seen in affirmative action, the abolition of standardized tests and advanced placement courses for the bright, and the lowering of academic standards. We call this “inclusiveness.”

I suspect the Chinese call it “lunacy.” China finds its very brightest young and sends them to the best schools in China or the US. The notion that virtue requires that a country suffer mildly retarded brain surgeons or barely numerate physicists is peculiarly American.

Elections, inevitable in democracies, are a terrible idea. An election is a competitive shooing of fools in directions profitable to those doing the shooing. Democracy is thus a mechanism for the promotion of rogues and rascals. It works. America now has a most wonderfully ineffectual and embarrassing government.

The holding of elections–these being combinations of raffles, vaudeville, and popularity contests–every two, four, or six years ensures that the beneficiaries will concentrate their thoughts more on shooing than doing.

China, with a stable government able to focus on governing, can look to the future and plan for the long term. America cannot. Pols don’t think beyond the next election. They cannot do what would be good for the country but only what suits the passing fads of hoi polloi. Thus China has an industrial policy. America has a collection of predatory corporations clawing their way to the public trough. China can decide to do something, and actually do it. Congress can’t buy a box of paper clips without fourteen lawsuits, a floor fight, two environmental impact studies, and a Supreme Court decision on the disparate racial impact of paper clips.

If I may wade into the quicksand of cultural analysis, authoritarian government seems emotionally to suit the Chinese. We think of it as repressive, the Chinese as orderly. In Asia there are various sayings such as,”The nail that stands up is beaten down,” while the Johnny Paycheck song resonates more with Westerners “You can take this job and shove it.”

The choice I suppose is one of personal preference. However, consensus allows the Chinese to do rapidly things they think important. Note that following the outbreak of the Coronavirus, China had the genome sequenced and online for the world in a month. They also very quickly developed a mass-produced test kit in giving results in eight to fifteen minutes, a hospital built in ten days. Can you imagine the US federal government doing anything at all in ten days? Remember the response to Katrina?

Consensus does not mean oppression or servility. Go to a Chinese city such as Chongqing, which I recently visited. You will find it clean, well run, with virtually no crime or police presence, lively restaurant districts and nightclubs. People are proud of this and proud of China.

What do you suppose they think when pondering an America laboring under the crippling diversity, under racial, sexual, ethnic, linguistic, and religious hostility and, most recently, the assaults of the libidinally weird? Under governmental chaos? Uncontrolled crime? The tens of thousands of homeless defecating on the streets? The 2.2 million in prison, which would equate to 8.8 million in China? Dozens of cities with illiterate black minorities?

Another unearned but real advantage: China is pretty much a Han monoculture except for Uighers and Tibetans, who are geographically isolated. This makes for a degree of domestic tranquility that, while imperfect, is far calmer than the American chaos.

In foreign relations, China again seems to have the edge in wisdom. America’s approach to the world is military and coercive, controlled by a vast and profitable arms industry with a Cold War mentality. China’s outlooks (and that of most of the world) is commercial. This is an imperfect description but catches the centerline. China spends on China, America on the Pentagon. In Africa, America sends troops and builds drone bases. China constructs infrastructure and buys up resources. China and Russia prepare to commercialize the Northern Sea Route; the Pentagon to send warships to counter them. (How do you counter a trade route with an aircraft carrier? Bomb the water?)

Some of China’s advantages result from fertility rather than judgement, but they nonetheless are advantages. Economically, China has a huge domestic market, larger than those of the US and Europe combined. This provides a cushion against American sanctions. For example, while Europe dithers over whether to shun Chinese 5G equipment on orders from Washington, Huawei rapidly builds for at least a billion people, keeping the factories running and providing economies of scale.

China is also a vast market for Western firms. Population gives China clout. For instance, it is the planet’s largest buyer of semiconductors. How happy are American firms at being shut out of that market?

Americans often say that the Chinese cannot “innovate.” This may be true. Or may not be. They are, however, very good at engineering. Of this there is no doubt. . They did not invent high-speed rail but have a superb system, did not invent maglev but are working on trains that will travel at 480 mph, did not invent semiconductors but design world-class chips.

So, brothers and sisters, America’s choices seemingly are to start a world war (favored by Bannon, Pompeo, and Bolton), or gut the military budget to make America great again (not a chance), or have America become a resonably important middle-sized country that can, in peace and tranquility, focus its its attention on transgender bathrooms.

Write Fred at [email protected]. Put the letters “pdq” anywhere in the subject line to avoid autodeletion.

The China/America Series
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  1. TG says:

    OK lets start with one thing: the United States is NOT a democracy. For shame. How can anyone believe you if you get even this simple, obvious fact wrong?

    Americans don’t want massive cheap-labor-uber-alles immigration. They don’t want to spend trillions on endless pointless winless foreign wars. They don’t want to spend tens of trillions of dollars (that’s not a misprint) on bailing out and subsidizing big finance and Wall Street. They don’t want their entire industrial base shipped to China. They don’t want “surprise medical billing.” They don’t want debt-slavery for young people whose only crime is to try to get educated and get a decent job.

    But the public be damed. We are a democracy in name only.

    The weakness of America is NOT ‘democracy,” because we don’t have one. The weakness of America is that our elites no longer give a damn about the nation as a whole.

    And the strength of China is that, for now at least, the elites do seem to care about the overall strength of their nation.

    End of story.

  2. MEH 0910 says:

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @romar
  3. First of all, Fred, the country was not supposed to be a democracy. The Constitutional Republic worked pretty damn good for 150 years or so.

    Then, I want to know if you’ve completely forgotten about the America of your youth. Most of the legitimate bad points you make here about our country are ones that weren’t true 50 years ago, during our Constitutional Republic times.

    China’s use of industrial policy and other central control is working pretty well right now, with smart non-psychopathic people, but that can change on a dime (check out Venezuela). You are right that our not-very-bright psychopaths are being voted in by people who shouldn’t have been allowed to vote. When did that start?

    There was quite a bit of ruin left in this nation when the destructive immigration-invasion policy and Socialism were implemented 55 years back. It’s as if someone behind the scenes said “hey, got 50 years? I’m gonna fuck this place up like you’ve never seen. Watch this!” Mr. Reed, you write as if there’s no such thing as history.

    BTW, there’s plenty of crime in China, but just not nearly as much violent street crime.

    • Replies: @Bill H
  4. You realize that China doesn’t suffer from our faults.

    Where I think your comparison falls short is that you fail to consider that China may suffer from faults of her own.

    It’s a bit like envying your neighbor his happy marriage — but not taking into account that he’s just been diagnosed with liver cancer. I’m not saying that we’re still number one; I’m just skeptical that China necessarily is. At least in principle, it’s perfectly possible she has her own cross to bear.

  5. Biff says:

    I’ve been harping on the same subject for the past twenty years, but I haven’t been able to put it into words as eloquently as Fred Reed. Really good stuff all the way through..

    Elections, inevitable in democracies, are a terrible idea. An election is a competitive shooing of fools in directions profitable to those doing the shooing. Democracy is thus a mechanism for the promotion of rogues and rascals. It works. America now has a most wonderfully ineffectual and embarrassing government.

    Stupid voters…

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
    , @Antiwar7
  6. Biff says:

    And remember; if you vote, you have no right to complain!

    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @Roger
  7. onebornfree says: • Website

    As a long time [since inception] daily reader at, [an anti-state, pro-freedom site], I’d often wondered just how on earth Reed’s screeds ever got published there on a fairly regular basis when he was so obviously just [yet] another foaming at the [loud]mouth big government proponent.

    This piece at displays his incurable love of the state in spades .Comparing the “benefits” of one enormous, totalitarian national government [US] with another [China], is an exercise in futility, a pseudo-intellectual, shell game, nothing more.

    Like most individuals, Reed is entirely incapable of ever understanding the true , core nature of all governments, everywhere, past present, or future:

    “Because they are all ultimately funded via both direct and indirect theft [taxes], and counterfeiting [central bank monopolies], all governments are essentially, at their very cores, 100% corrupt  criminal scams which cannot be “reformed”or “improved”,simply because of their innate criminal nature.”   onebornfree

    “Taking the State wherever found, striking into its history at any point, one sees no way to differentiate the activities of its founders, administrators and beneficiaries from those of a professional-criminal class.”      Albert J. Nock

    “The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic” H.L.Mencken

    And so it goes….

    “Regards” onebornfree

    • Replies: @Delta G
    , @moe
    , @Angharad
  8. Biff says:

    Forget the Russians!

    “Democrats,” of Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi variety “are afraid that American voters are going to interfere in the 2020 election, and elect Bernie Sanders!”

  9. Rahan says:

    The current novel corona virus is an (((excellent crippling strike))) at China’s internal consumer market, which stopped being a cushion overnight.

    I think someone revived an updated version of the playbook which gradually bled the USSR white in just a decade, by a death of a thousand cuts.

    Let’s hope the ChiNaz state is more resilient. The *victory* against the USSR by underhanded means produced a CIA/Pentagon-ran America, Islamist terrorism, and an outrageous Napoleon complex for the AngloZionists. If China survives, and figures out ways to counteract the “thousand cuts” strategy (perhaps through some clandestine counter-strikes to send a message, with Canada’s cows suddenly dying from a “mysterious illness” for example), this will stabilize the global situation.

    The USSR had closed borders, starting a private business or owning foreign currency was prison-tier stuff, listening to unapproved foreign music or reading unapproved foreign books was also publishable, dentists used anesthetics only for surgery, and the economy was ran by senile planners.

    Compared to what they were back in the 20th century, both today’s China and today’s Russia, are open, dynamic, flexible, free societies. Neither deserve a “USSR collapse”, and anyone trying to engineer this for real is committing crimes against humanity.

    Via “poisoned wells & radioactive foods” tactics normally associated with the MOSSAD, which life philosophy seems to have unfortunately taken over the Anglosphere.

    • Agree: Antiwar7
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  10. onebornfree says: • Website

    @ Fred Reed:

    “The people have been easily fooled into believing that the state is a god that must exist so that order can be maintained. So why is there no order? There are constant shootings, murder, theft, extortion, beatings, incarceration, and unfounded wars, with most all of these atrocities committed by the very government making the “laws.” This is why government should be ignored. It has nothing, it produces nothing, and it is nothing. Government is simply a name attached to a false entity that has no right to exist, and can only survive by the use of force in order to uphold its mandates.”
    Gary D. Barnett.

    “Government  is a disease masquerading as its own cure”  Robert LeFevere


  11. “The notion that virtue requires that a country suffer mildly retarded brain surgeons or barely numerate physicists is peculiarly American.”

    Regardless of the merits of this essay one way or the other, this sentence was absolute gold. (Though I do think that Europe exhibits similar insanity.)

    • Replies: @Just passing through
  12. melpol says:

    Nitpicking what is wrong with America and right with China won’t change the facts. American people have the highest standard of living in the world. In comparison most Chinese work in sweatshops barely eking out a living. China will soon implode when they realize their 1.3 billion people cannot be supported.

    • Replies: @Add Spinach
    , @nsa
    , @Franz
  13. Delta G says:

    Go back inside your cave and leave the humans alone.

    • Agree: Biff
    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @onebornfree
  14. @Biff

    Give democracy a chance and it will work. Democracy is being hi-jacked by the electronic media but it’s is also being awakened by the same electronic media.
    Just like Iowa, lies will get exposed.
    We have enemies and at long last we know who they are.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  15. Antiwar7 says:

    Agreed, well-written. Especially this definition of a democratic election: a competitive shooing of fools.

    Brilliant! It should be added to Ambrose Bierce’s The Devil’s Dictionary.

  16. The current chaos existing and flourishing within our own beloved United States of America, is that we are no longer a republic, that having effectively been destroyed, first as a result of the creation of an omnipotent centralized federal government by Abraham Lincoln, then by Amendment XVII, and then by Amendment XIX to our divinely inspired Constitution of the United States of America.

    Add to that the current anti-White, anti-male, anti-heterosexual, and anti-Christian socially mandated political correctness enforced by government imposed quota systems, and enthusiastically promoted by peer pressure, the public school system, the allegedly “Christian” churches, and the ever more depraved, perverse, and deviant Hollywood entertainment media.

    Can we ever restore our lost republic?

    Can true Christianity even be restored and/or sustained?

    How do we defend our borders, end all of our foreign wars, and return all of our troops from their overseas assignments?

    Even if there were those who might wish to take up arms and fight in the cause of liberty and national survival, in this environment of universal government electronic surveillance, how would the potential traitors/rebels/patriots initially identify and communicate with each other, and then organize their efforts?

    Of course, even if it could possibly be achieved, the biggest problem with successfully seizing control of government in the chaotic aftermath of anarchy and/or civil war is the question of what happens next?

    Who will be in control, and what is their agenda?

    Is the devil we don’t know going to be worse than the devil we do know?

    As for China, it’s possible that the Novel Corona Virus will already prove to be their undoing, and in any event, we should heed the admonition of George Washington, i.e., to avoid foreign entanglements by being allied with none, while freely engaged in commerce with all.

    • Replies: @SBaker
  17. d dan says:

    I would like to hear from commenters what do you consider to be the 3 greatest ills of this country (U.S.). In other words, if you are the President (or king, or God, or whatever) for one day, what do you wish to change. Please be concise, specific and rank them in rough order of importance.

    Thank you in advance.

  18. @TG

    Europeans seem to have this obsession with freedom, or perhaps I may be mistaken and this is just a White boomer generation thing.

    As such, democracy is the best way to keep the masses calm. In Iran, a country the US media pushes as a totalitarian theocracy, every man and woman gets one vote, the candidates are however vetted by an Islamic Guardian Council to ensure they are not subversives.

    This last stipulation is what allows US media to classify Iran as a totalitarian theocracy, it is said that in th US one faces no such hurdles and anyone can become president, unlike in Iran…

    However, while this is technically true, in reality both are the same. In Marcia and elsewhere in the West, candidates are vetted not by a religious council, but by various vested interests from corporation to Zionists. You don’t stands shot unless you are approved by these people.

    Ezra Pound said something along the lines of ‘the definition of democracy in Europe is a country run by Jews’, he wasn’t far off.

  19. @Beobachter

    As someone who is in in a software development job, I find this sentiment of ‘affirmative action gone mad’ to be very overblown.

    What I found more pertinent about the differences was how in China, the elites have degrees on technical matters like Chemistry and Mathematics, as they don’t have to really worry too much about legislation, while those in the West are mostly lawyers or bankers.

    In a democracy, only the worst can get to the top.

    • Replies: @lysias
  20. @d dan

    D. Dan:

    (It’s a tie for first.)

    (1) Socialism
    (1) Mass Immigration
    (3) Non-compliance with the US Constitution.*


    * On this 3rd one, Mr. Mallernee’s superb comment above can explain a bit for you. That’s the best comment on this thread by far, even including mine. ;-}

  21. Fred,
    I agree with you on pretty much everything that you say. I think you overestimate the racial tensions in the US however, as it seems to me it is Blacks, South Asians, and Jews that forment it. Not most of the recent immigrants, such as the Hispanics. Additionally, in the daily life, it is just Black people.

  22. @Delta G

    (You) are obviously (One) of (Them). How (Clear) does (China) have to (be). Its a (Conspiracy).

    Everything that (happens) is because of (them).

    Like (Coranavirus).

  23. @MEH 0910

    Worldwide, fewer people will die from Coronavirus this year than die in one day from flu.
    Coronavirus infection rate is less than SARS (2.2 vs 3.0).
    To date, about 12,000 people in China have contracted the virus, and 256 died, no death under age 30, no one infected under 15.
    The death rate in China is 2.2% vs 10% for SARS.
    Outside China, of 130+ cases, 0 died.
    The median age of the infected is 59, old people with existing conditions.
    Most infected people have mild illness.

    Author Jeff J. Brown writes, “If it weren’t for China being on a war footing to limit its spread, the numbers would be much, much worse. I’m in regular contact with people there and it’s mind boggling what they are doing to save lives. Our daughter is on CNY vacation and stuck here, has to report her body temperature, health condition and location to her university every day 7/7, before 12:00, otherwise they call her to make sure she’s alright! She not even Chinese, nor in China, but all the people outside the country are accounted for. Multiply that by a billion.”

    • Replies: @Thisbloke
  24. @melpol

    You’ve never been to China, have you, and never quite visited podunk towns outside of whatever little bubble in the United States in which you live? China’s policy and thought are far more concerned about their Citizens than US. The standard of living is rapidly rising. Visit malls in dubai or Toronto or Berlin or London and you’ll find far more regular Chinese tourists (not affluent) buying all manner of tchotchkes than regular Americans who’re happy with a burger and a beer.

    • Replies: @Angharad
  25. Thisbloke says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    1300 dead from flu last year in the USA.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  26. Commentators, your choice, live in the USA or China, what shall it be? Chinese citizens, your choice, live in the USA or China, what shall it be? American citizens, live in the USA or China, what shall it be? If this were a poll the results would be obvious. In the final analysis it’s all about freedom.

  27. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Delta G

    “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink”, as the saying goes, so crawl back in your little slave-cell/hole and dose up on those blue pills you keep taking. Yummy! 😜

    Have nice life, “regards” onebornfree

  28. A quick fix would be term limits. I am more than certain most Americans are against incumbent politicians and the special interest groups which depend on them. Term limits would eliminate many of America’s most serious political problems by counterbalancing incumbent advantages, ensuring congressional turnover, securing independent congressional judgment, and reducing election-related incentives for wasteful government spending. Career Politicians are parasites, sleazy, easy to blackmail or bribe, most could not pass employment screening at Wendys!

    I think the founding fathers expected each Representative elected to serve in DC do so with a set timeline. Then go back and work his farm, store or business!

    • Replies: @Bill H
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  29. @Thisbloke

    Yes, but out of how many cases? (Spoiler: it’s Millions per year.) There is a vaccine for the most common flu, not for this coronavirus, and the latter has been said to spread even easier. That’s the worry for people. If it stopped at this level, yes, it would be no big deal in the grand scheme of things.

  30. @Rev. Spooner

    Give democracy a chance and it will work

    No, it won’t – because it is mathematically impossible to do what it claims to do, which is to get an accurate guess at social preferences (‘what society wants’, ‘the general will’, ‘what is good/best for society’ [this is not necessarily the same as ‘what society wants’]).

    Kenneth Arrow proved that this is not possible, for more than 2 voters and more than 2 choices, thus turning a conjecture by Condorcet, into a theorem: the Arrow Impossibility Theorem. That was in 1950, so no supporter of ‘democracy’ has an excuse to be ignorant of it.

    Later, Gibbard and Satterthwaite generalised Arrow’s theorem, proving that no vote-counting method exists that is not corruptible or biased. That was in the early 70s, so again there is no excuse.

    Duggan and Schwartz extended both to selection between ‘bundles’; that was (IIRC) the late-70s/early 80s.

    So the selection method is fundamentally flawed, even when making a very basic groupwise-decision.

    That’s well before the infantile religious belief that such as system can be configured so that it only attracts people who want to determine the ‘general will’, and then to put in place policies to attempt to satisfy those preferences at least-cost. There is an entire literature that shows that to be horse-shit.

    Democracy is a shibboleth. It is inadequate in its purest, most abstract form – e.g., a universe of 3 people deciding on the group-preference for flavoured ice-cream, in a universe with only 3 flavours and no effects on any other market or decision.

    The more conditions you relax, the worse it gets… and by the time it’s “representative, parliamentary democracy it has exactly zero chance of living up to its defenders’ claims.

    • Replies: @lysias
  31. @Rahan

    I’m not an advocate for socialism: I’m a voluntaryist (what is often mis-termed ‘anarcho-capitalist’), so in my book, less central authority is always better than more – even if it results in reduced standards of living (it won’t, but that doesn’t matter: if theft and coercion are wrongs, then less theft and coercion is better even if it makes you slightly poorer).

    The logic is identical to the logic surrounding the abolition of slavery: it is a profound wrong, and if abolishing it results in lower output per head, then that is the required price.

    To use a slightly different example: people would have more access to calories if we ate our (or each other’s) dead, but we actively choose not to.

    As it turns out (and as was known prior to abolitionism) abolishing slavery doesn’t reduce productivity anyhow – it increases it, both statically (worker incentivisation) and dynamically (it’s more efficient, so more profitable, so generates faster capital stock growth and technological change).

    The same would be true if we abolished government.


    It’s kinda poignant that people carry around a load of bad information about the Soviet system.

    For the most part the really bad aspects of that system had no impact on the lives of the overwhelming majority of citizens – the politically-favoured benefited (as usual); the politically-connected-who-crossed-the-wrong-motherfucker were on the worst of the receiving end.

    And while freedom of expression and association are important rights, the stark reality is that for 95% of the population they’re irrelevant – particularly for those at the bottom of the economic ladder in a society where 80% of the population live through subsistence-agriculture.

    It’s true that parts of the Soviet political leadership used State power to do very large amounts of harm to people who weren’t direct competitors – the Holodomor being the usual example.

    The Hoilodomor is (as usual) a bad example. The supposed ‘political’ cause – Stalin trying to get rid of an entire population because of Ukrainian separatism – is almost certainly nonsense: the Ukraine famine of the early 1930s occurred in the context of a USSR-wide famine, so it is best seen as a typical government example of ‘picking winners’ (in this case, ‘reallocating’ resources away from people who don’t matter, towards people who do).


    As to economic performance: the starting point for the Soviet system (in 1917) was an output per capita that was roughly the same as the US and UK in 1850.

    Then they had a brutal civil war (1917-21) that killed more people than WWI, and by 1922 output per capita was at levels roughly in line with UK and US in 1720.

    (Interestingly: the USSR went back to ‘approximately’ free(ish) enterprise between 1921 and 1929, to rebuild. Their political leaders knew that free enterprise was the best system to rapidly increase living standards).

    Then, there was some unpleasantness in the early 1940s that caused the death of almost 35% of their working-age male population (and 8% of their working age female population). By the end of WWII the USSR was back at 1820s-UK level output per capita. (Working age males are the primary source of output, so if one of them died it reduces output per capita more-than-proportionately).

    Their growth rate overall (1917 to 1989) was actually higher than the West – in part because of the low starting level.

    By 1980 per capita income in the Soviet Union was 97% of per capita income in the UK, and 66% of US income per capita. (The UK standard of living in 1980 was roughly equivalent to the US level in 1964 – because the UK was still paying back Lend Lease).

    Between 1917 and 1980 the Soviet Union had a per capita growth rate of 2.9% per annum; for the US it was 2.1% and for the UK it was 1.4%.

    Between 1923 (the end of the Civil War) and 1980, the Soviets had per capita growth of 4.7% a year; the US by 2.0%, and the UK by 1.8%.

    So the Soviets made up the gap between 1720s US standards of living and 1964 US standards of living, in 57 years – and a third of the way through that 57 years they lost 1 working man in 3, permanently while saving Western Europe from a shouty man with a moustache.

    All things considered, the Soviet system did far better than is generally understood – partly because smart people aren’t focused on the right metrics, and the masses are just fuckwits who believe what they’re told in kindergarten and on the TV.


    Now, all of the foregoing must be read with the underlying assumption that the output mix in a socialist economy will definitely be different to, and less preferred than, the mix that would arise in a free enterprise economy

    So the 1980s output mix for a Soviet citizen would be “worse” than the same dollar-value bundle in the UK or US; similarly, the UK and US (with ~35% of GDP being government at the time) would generate a worse bundle than actual free enterprise.


    Gini coefficients were comparable: 1950-1980 the USSR had an average Gini index in the mid-to-high 20s (the UK was lower at ~23; the US, being a corrupt kleptocracy, was much higher at ~37).

    These comparisons use the closest apples-to-apples data that is available – although a characterisation like “1720s standard of living” using only output-per-capita fails to account for improvements in standard of living that aren’t captured in output-per-capita – like increased hygeine, hedonically-superior goods etc – only some of which would be relevant to the USSR even as late as 1980.


    And what also had to be borne in mind: the USSR out-grew the West, even though it was shut out of technology exchange for its entire existence. It had to develop technology endogenously (or steal it), purely because of Western hostility to its political system (which, as I’ve made clear… I do not favour).

    There is almost no moral crime greater than depriving an entire country (or region) from access to industrial (as opposed to military) technology, solely because the target country has had a different political/ownership structure imposed on them.

    It deprives people who have no say in it, consigning them to shorter, poorer lives – 95% of the population have no say in system-wide decisionmaking, and the people at the top will still live lives of luxury.

    Refusing technology exchange to ‘punish’ a nation is literally killing the already downtrodden. Assuming that such deprivation will cause the populace to rise up and throw off the yoke is a ‘Stupid American’ idea that has never worked (the Yank Revolution was endogenous: they weren’t being held down indirectly by, say, France: in fact it was Britain who was refusing technology exchange with the Colonies).

    Assuming that people will remain ignorant of underlying causes (e.g., the fact that a third party is largely responsible for their problems) is retarded. The people of the USSR were well aware of the technology gap, and were aware that they were being denied technological parity by the West. If anything, it reduced their expectations of the Soviet political class.

    That’s why the USSR did not ‘implode’ because of internal strife: a common external enemy girds the populace.

    Eventually the USSR went away because a new generation of political leaders recognised that ‘free-ish enterprise’ was a better mechanism to rapidly close the gap in living standards to the West. (They were largely informed by the arguments made in the aftermath of the Soviet Civil War)

    They didn’t count on (((some folks))) using their positions in the imploding hierarchy, to steal anything that wasn’t tied down (shame on Gorbachev et al, for failing to read the Book of Exodus).

    The only greater crime than refusing industrial-technology exchange, is bombing the target victim for the same reason (refusal to hew to the whims of the political class of the aggressor) – as the US did to most of Southeast Asia in the 1960s and early 1970s.

  32. @Simply Simon

    If this were a poll the results would be obvious.

    And the results would be obviously wrong because people are incapable of forming expectations in a genuinely forward-looking way.

    Polls are absolutely, and without doubt, the very worst way to validate ideas.

    If you ran a poll in the US about belief in an invisible foreskin-obsessed Sky Maniac who advocates genocide, incest, theft and murder, it would get plurality support if not majority support.

    Depending on how you ask the question, you get an answer from 64% (zero doubt that god exists) all the way up to 89% (for plain ol’ “Do you believe in God?”).

    Zero is an unacceptably wrong amount of doubt for a thing for which there is absolutely no evidence – and yet it is the overwhelming result.

    So overwhelming majorities can often believe preposterous horse-shit that a retarded child would not believe unless you indoctrinated them.

    Besides, people will lie on surveys all the time: they answer the way that they think is most likely to impress a milieu that they would like to impress. Even if the poll is entirely anonymous, people will hedge their true beliefs.

    So for example the recent ‘record low’ in the proportion of biblical literalists (26%) is largely because a subset of literalists – those who are not inside an evangelical bubble 24/7 – would be (rightly) embarrassed to answer truthfully in their social milieu. That conditions their survey response far more than their actual beliefs.

    When dealing with public responses to surveys, the “Ship of Fools” model strictly dominates the “Wisdom of Crowds” model. That’s because the “Wisdom of Crowds” model relies critically on the absence of any biased influential node in the knowledge network of every member in the crowd.

    Contrast that with the average person, who refuse to reject an objectively wrong idea if it’s a belief that has been inculcated by an authority figure that is still important in the person’s life.

    Surveys are doxastic (i.e., about beliefs), not epistemic (i.e., about knowledge).

    It is possible to believe a thing that is incorrect; it is not possible to know a thing that is incorrect.

  33. @Simply Simon

    1.) Nobody here speaks Chinese. 2.) China doesn’t give away citizenship in exchange for cheap labor.

    What’s the purpose of your question? Just to look smug and ignorant? You succeeded!

  34. a hospital built in ten days

    Yeah, here’s your world-class hospital, Federico. It’s a waiting room for the crematorium.

  35. Biff says:
    @d dan

    1) Corporate monopolies.

    2)Corporate control of the law making process.

    3)Corporate monopoly of the health care system.

    Do you see a trend?

    • Replies: @Biff
  36. nsa says:

    “American people have the highest standard of living in the world”
    Humble nsa has resided in Australia and Canada…….. both easily have a higher standard of living, as well as a far more enlightened and friendly population. Many parts of the USA are now definitely third world.

    • Agree: Biff, Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  37. Couple of points for the author… Tibetans are not geographically isolated. Actually there are more Tibetans in other provinces of China than in Tibet itself.
    Also Han are not mono-cultural. Saying Han is like saying European. Even today – someone from Shanghai and someone from Sichuan and someone from Guangdong who speak their local dialect rather than Mandarin – will not be able to understand each other. Even in Guangdong alone you have people who speak Taishanese – Cantonese – Teochew. Right above them in Fujian you have Hokkien speakers. In both you have Hakka speakers. Again – all Han people. Not too long ago in history – Hakka and Cantonese people fought clan wars just like anything you would see in the Balkans. I say that to say – unifying China took a Herculean effort. Now we see the results – but it was a tough slough. Even on Taiwan – Chiang Kai Shek kept martial law for 40 years after he retreated there… So imagine the whole entire nation… Really not much different than Europe prior to WW2 going back to antiquity. The main difference is the Han people decided to make their version of the EU – centuries ago..
    But overall I agree with your thoughts.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  38. @nsa

    Very true… When you measure things in totality such as education – healthcare – transport – infrastructure – economic mobility – crime and safety – there are indeed other nations with higher quality of life. It’s so sad many Americans have no clue – which is why there is little fight to improve things.

  39. Biff says:

    1 + 2 + 3 = The Corporate Police State.

  40. Franz says:

    American people have the highest standard of living in the world.

    Big hardy-har-har.

    The 60s were barely over when Germany’s standard of living topped the USA,

    Now it includes tons of other nations, which (hold onto your hat) also have higher levels of freedom.

    Canadians, Portugese, Dutch, and many more can sleep easy at night knowing that drug cops will not bust through their doors and shoot the family dog, or the whole family, because someone MIGHT be smoking a naturally-occurring healing herb. They know their police are NOT trained in a Middle Eastern nation where they are given live-fire exercises on Palestinians, the better to treat their US “citizens” properly when they return. No Canadian or Mexican taxpayer dollars ensure that if Israel runs out of gas — or even low — the American taxpayer must guarentee the fuel gets there one way or the other.

    Can you not see? If by “higher standard” you mean they are the most docile slaves the Unholy Land ever had, okay. Otherwise, hooey.

  41. … or have America become a resonably important middle-sized country that can, in peace and tranquility, focus its its attention on transgender bathrooms.

    More likely that the USA will break into a couple or several mid-sized countries, some of which will focus on that issue.

  42. Chinaman says:

    In Asian cultures, people instinctually recognise that some form of tyranny is a necessary evil , and that each of us have to make sacrifices, whether in our freedoms or lives, such civilised society, as a whole can endure.

    In western cultures, people value their individual freedoms more than the collective wellbeing of society. The pursuit of individual happiness is lauded as a birthright and the supreme good, all at the expense of greater good. It is the tragedy of the commons and what makes societal collapse in the west inevitable.

    learn your mandarin. The chinaman will inherit the earth.,.Sorry, I forgot white people haven’t evolved the specialised mental circuits to handle 20,000 logograms.

  43. Chinaman says:
    @Simply Simon

    Funny question, how would you know unless one have lived in both countries for substantial amount of time? I can claim to have done both and I would choose China any day….I stay away from America like it is a putrid rotting corpse.

  44. Roger says:

    The counter argument to this is (and I’ve heard it many times) that if you DON’T vote, you have no right to complain.

    The fact is that I do have a right to complain whether I vote or don’t. Disliking any aspect of society and giving voice to that dislike is a right we all have from the very beginning. For instance, “I’ve just pooped my diaper and I want you to know about it so that the situation can be corrected.”

    What I prefer is that, IF you vote and your candidate of choice wins, THEN you are responsible for what he or she does as an incumbent. No matter the ideological skew, IF you support any position and it becomes dominant, THEN you are, at least partially, responsible for what happens after that. If more people started to think like this and take personal responsibility for the results of their action, we would probably see far more reticence in deciding who becomes King and what policies become Law.

    • Replies: @Jmaie
  45. @showmethereal

    Oh one point I left off Mr. Reed… There is the God given principle of “reaping what you sowed”. China actually does have a fair amount of Africans. Most of them are either traders with businesses to and from Africa – or they are university students taking advantage of low cost Chinese college education and grants along with it. So they are different than the “Dozens of cities with illiterate black minorities” in the US. Those blacks are descendants of slaves who were forcibly brought to the US against their will and suffered untold numbers of atrocities. That was the seed that was sown – and now the bitter fruit is reaped. You can’t escape the laws of God. On the flip side – many in power hoped by sending low skill jobs to China they would be able to exploit China indefinitely. But they were dealing with a different society. They never expected China to collectively move up the value chain. Again – a seed sowed with malign intentions reaped bitter fruit. The results were just the opposite effect.

    Again – I do agree with the overall sentiment though…

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  46. Jmaie says:

    If more people started to think like this and take personal responsibility for the results of their action

    Ah hell nah, this is America dammit. My problems must be fixed by someone else.

  47. Bill H says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “…but that can change on a dime (check out Venezuela). “

    Apparently you are unaware that Venezuela’s problems started when we stole their money. They were banking their oil revenue in the United States and we impounded it.

    To what degree and depth the loss of their cash reserves are causal of their present state of chaos, I don’t know, but I do know that it was our theft of large amounts of their legitimate cash reserves that triggered the crisis.

  48. Bill H says: • Website
    @J. Gutierrez

    I am more than certain most Americans are against incumbent politicians

    Clearly not, since they reelect more than 92% of politicians running for reelection.

    I remain convinced that here in San Diego, when Duncan Hunter Jr. ran for his first term a majority of the people voting for him thought they were voting for his father because he left the “Jr” off of his campaign signs.

    Further debunking your theory, they reelected him even after he had been indicted for campaign finance fraud and tried to get out of it by throwing his wife under the bus.

    • Replies: @Rex Little
  49. @Bill H

    What year are you talking about, Bill? Venezuela’s problems started when they elected a Communist, Hugo Chavez, to the presidency back in 1998.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  50. @Chinaman

    You, young Chinaman, do not at all get what is meant by the “tragedy of the commons”. It’s on the internet. The tragedy of the commons is displayed to us when the outside of houses, the hallways of the apartment buildings (one I thought was 20 years old was only 5), etc. are trashed out and not taken care of, because it’s not the owners’ responsibility. I’ve seen beautifully-decorated interiors in places there that you’d never want your picture in front of, even as much as the Chinese people like to take the living hell out of pictures.

    In Western cultures, especially that unique experiment called the United States, individual freedoms worked pretty damn well until they were trashed out by the left in the 1960s. Just because you have individual freedoms doesn’t mean that there can’t be a myriad of associations of individuals accomplishing big tasks.

    You all may inherit the Earth indeed, but it won’t be a happy place when that happens. BTW, you need to change the written language to one with just a few dozen letters. Written Mandarin is downright stupid. Why would you want to sit inside memorizing even 4,000 (more-like) sets of squiggly lines, when you can memorize 26 letters and figure it out from there? Maybe you haven’t yet, as you spelled “civilized” wrong. Are you in Hong Kong?

  51. @Bill H

    Sorry, Bill, I meant to add more but stepped away for a bit, then felt obligated to write to “Chinaman”. I can see the loss of the cash being a big temporary problem, but the oil COULD still flow. I emphasized “could” because that’s the problem with Communism – all the incentives to get things going in the economy are gone.

    I should have written, “.. the BASIC problem started with Chavez.”

  52. @TG

    It seems the idea is that one may have a democracy, and the result will almost certainly be contrary to what reasonable persons (the“we” to whom you refer) want. Policy will be imposed under all circumstances. The question is whether it will be imposed by competent leaders or by hucksters.

    In the US, we have the hucksters and politically chosen, corrupt technocrats acting to support what is essentially an oligarchy, via the closest thing to democracy the world has ever seen. China claims to have competent leaders. One suspects they also act to support an oligarchy.

    Should a reasonable person wish either leadership well?

  53. @showmethereal

    Saying “a fair amount” is very misleading, SMTR. China has possibly a few hundred thousand Africans, and they keep it that way by being a SERIOUS country regarding who comes and goes from the place.

    As to the numbers, if China had the percentage of black people that American has, there would be well over 150,000,000 black “Chinamen”. That’s ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION. Really? That’s maybe ONE THOUSAND times the percentage they have now. What they have is a drop in the bucket, and not only that, if the Chinese people wanted them gone, then they would be …pooof … GONE.

    Your whole “reap what you sow”theme is off too. It wasn’t many regular Americans who bought slaves or owned slaves, only a very few percent, mostly the Southern and Mississippi Valley elites. Yet everybody suffers now, except for a few of the elites. It was our elites (thanks Clintons/Bushes!) that shipped manufacturing jobs and capabilities to China from the early 1990s to … They don’t reap anything bad out of it at all, do they? The common former-middle-class American people do.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  54. @J. Gutierrez

    Bill H. has a good point in reply, but I still like this comment, Mr. Gutierrez. You are right about what the Founding Fathers expected. We just have way too many people voting now who shouldn’t be and yes, as you wrote, those politicians who couldn’t pass employment screening at Wendy’s! Additionally, Socialism has had the effect over the last 1/2 century of getting lots of the population dependent on government. They won’t bite the hand that feeds them.

  55. @Achmed E. Newman


    You could also call it “civic pride”, or rather the lack of it. Definitely in most of the world outside the West people just don’t care about the common spaces and their responsible behaviour stops once they step outside the door of their home. Still, most of the resources for maintaining such comes from taxes and local authorities so there should be no reason why a socialist system would perform worse. It’s definitely cultural but I still can’t see why most countries, especially in the Third World, should be in such poor shape. Probably most people don’t pay taxes and what they do those corrupt politicians in authority probably steal so there isn’t much left over to care for the commons. Singapore, although Chinese, seems to have done quite well in that respect, but then they’ve gone overboard with the strict enforcement.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  56. mario964 says:

    China’s political system is based on the primacy of meritocracy.

    Really worth reading from Foreign Affairs:

    The Life of the Party – The Post-Democratic Future Begins in China.

    ….. . Indeed, of the 25 Politburo members before the 18th Party Congress, 19 had run provinces larger than most countries in the world and ministries with budgets higher than that of the average nation’s government. A person with Barack Obama’s pre-presidential professional experience would not even be the manager of a small county in China’s system.

  57. WCC says:

    Whoops Fred, you sure blew this one as the superior Chinese just loosed a pandemic on the world. Was it an accidental release from their bioterror lab in Wahu or just their way of thinning the herd as their economy tanks? We’ll never know. But it will surely wreak havoc on the rest of the world before it runs it’s course. Already Walmart and dollar stores are becoming bare with no restocking in sight. What are we to do?

    Also, you should go to Hong Kong (oops, you can’t) and ask them how living under Chinese rule is working out for them. Or Taiwan, which may have to do it one day.

    As for the unwashed and uneducated minions being able to vote, I totally agree with you. I would like to implement Jefferson’s idea of only landed gentry able to vote.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  58. @Commentator Mike

    True, Mike, there’s the political system, and there’s the people themselves. The Chinese have no history of the understanding of the rights of men, and property rights, etc, as our Founding Fathers did. It is possibly not in them. Americans have forgotten a whole lot and the place is not made of as much original settler stock either. The culture of honesty is not all gone though.

    That was a bit off the subject, so to answer your comment: A Socialist system will perform worse because the incentives are screwed, not due to the money. As for the trashing of spaces, the Chinese, from what I’ve seen, are not into neatness. It’s an amazing difference from Japan.

  59. IvyMike says:

    Fred inspires more good comment with his sense of humor composed of experience, cynicism, bitterness, Tequila, and a raging love of life than any serious writer on the world wide web. Love me some Fred.

  60. Built a hospital in 10 days? Have you seen the pictures? It is a place to keep sick people until they either get better in cramped conditions with others who have the same and sometimes additional illnesses, or die. The purpose is to separate, not cure.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  61. Biff says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The Chinese have no history of the understanding of the rights of men, and property rights, etc, as our Founding Fathers did.

    Founding Fathers have been Fucked. Just do a little search on Civil Asset Forfeiture and you should realize that your precious property rights aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. My property rights feel much more secure living in Asia then they ever did living in the U.S… Cops LOVE seizing your shit, and they do it ALL THE TIME!..

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  62. @Bill H

    I am more than certain most Americans are against incumbent politicians

    Clearly not, since they reelect more than 92% of politicians running for reelection.

    They’re against other people’s incumbent politicians, not their own.

    I remain convinced that here in San Diego, when Duncan Hunter Jr. ran for his first term a majority of the people voting for him thought they were voting for his father because he left the “Jr” off of his campaign signs.

    Life imitates art.

  63. Sulu says:

    I am in large part in agreement with most of what you have said when comparing China with the U.S.A. But don’t you think that if the subject is China there is a rather large story unfolding there and like the song says…”There’s something happening here, what it is ain’t exactly clear.”
    Wouldn’t that be a more fitting story if China is your subject?


  64. Escher says:

    Well written as always, but not too many new insights.
    There’s a fair amount of innovation happening in China, but no category-changing or industry-defining companies have arisen yet. That will take time, I suppose.
    Long-term the Chinese do need to address their cratering fertility.
    OT: there’s some buzz on the inter webs that the coronavirus is step 2 of a nefarious American plan to derail the rise of China. The Hong Kong protests being step 1.
    /end of random observations.

  65. @Achmed E. Newman

    As for the trashing of spaces, the Chinese, from what I’ve seen, are not into neatness. It’s an amazing difference from Japan.

    Yes, the Japanese lead the world in that respect. Except that with them it verges on the pathological, almost as if they suffer from OCD. And although being of different race, I find some similarities there with Germans. From what I read, Belarus, especially Minsk, seems to be spick and pan, and stands out from the rest of that part of Europe.

    • Replies: @Ray Huffman
  66. Chinaman says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    America was founded on the genocide of Indians and slavery of blacks. Plain and simple. It was founded by a bunch of lower caste beta males who couldn’t make it in their home country. This indelible mark of inferiority runs in the blood of all Americans and their congenital depravity is evident in contemporary American culture. Violence and crime is in your blood. The founding fathers was a ragtag bunch of slave owners who wanted to protect their commercial interests. The word democracy never appeared once in the Declaration of Independence and only 6% of white people, landowners, are allowed to vote. The “unique experiment” is a myth and sham, and used to cover-up the crimes of the settlers. To whitewash these facts with sanctimonious talks of liberty and freedom is a gross distortion of history and a desecration to the memories of those who have suffered under this brutal racist regime – USA-.

  67. Chinaman says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Most of the big problems in the world can be explained by the tragedy of commons, it is a manifestation of the selfish instinct. If you can expand your mind a bit beyond trash and the confines of the apartment block project you might reside in, It is behind most of the economic problems in the world such as pollution, overfishing and climate change. The glorification of individual rights and freedom versus the communal good exacerbates these tendencies. The average 2-digit IQ American takes it quite literally when Ann Coulter said “ God said, ‘Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’

    I can understand your frustration and animosity towards the Chinese characters. Your limited cognition is incapable of deciphering it but for those who can, I will argue actually a very efficient and accurate form of data representation since it is visual and do not require any form of indirect decoding. I can read much faster in Chinese than in English. No typo or spelling mistakes in Chinese. Oh, just to be clear, My ancestors invented the paper and the writing system way before any white dude was “civilised”. Yes, Your English ancestors spelled it that way. Not sure who didn’t learn their ENGLISH properly here.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  68. Jaego says:

    America’s not a Democracy. It wasn’t intended to be one. And that’s a good thing. It’s was intended to be a Republic (that inclues some Democracy for the qualified). But it has become a Totalitarian Plutocracy whre the Corporations control the Government for the benefit of themselves and their class. In China, the Government controls or at least guides the Corporations for the good of the Nation. Their way is better. Ditto Japan, Korea, etc.

    One sphere must dominate, or “lead” in the dance. Should it be the private, dedicated to the good of a few? Or the public, dedicated to the good of all? The answer is obvious except to Americans who minds have been ruined. Both are hierarchical or elitist. And that’s the point: the only answer to a bad elite is a good one. Non-Elitism or Egalitarianism is simply a weapon of the bad Elite.

  69. @Chinaman


    I wonder what you’d have to say about Australians who were just a bunch of thieves and murderers sent out to a vast penal colony.

  70. @Biff

    We are in complete agreement this time, Biff. Notice (especially Mr. Chinaman) that I write sometimes about the past and sometimes about the present. We have tenses for that, something the Chinese language is not very good at conveying.

    I am well aware of how far gone the American legal system is, and the people who don’t give a damn are, with regard to the seizing of assets and that sort of thing, Biff. As a matter of fact, one of Peak Stupidity many posts on China is about the subject of eminent domain, along the lines of asset forfeiture (started in earnest with the “War on Drugs”). See “Fireworks from China” for a comparison.

    Just be aware, Biff, that, in a place where people don’t distrust Central Government enough, things can change drastically with no notice to you. Right now, there are no free countries left. One must choose between one evil or another.

  71. @Chinaman

    No, you don’t get it completely. I live in a very clean neighborhood. I am not living in China. Where I live, people will pick up things on city/county property, if it’s the part right in front of their house. Some nice people volunteer for trash clean up in parts or certain common areas. These people are invariably 98% white, in a general area that is 50% white if we’re lucky. That should tell you something.

    Then, you seem to get the idea now, that the tragedy is indeed due to normal innate human selfishness. (Your deep-sea fishing example is a good one, your Global Climate Disruption(TM) is not, due to the bogus science and political hype).

    I like Ann Coulter a lot, but you may want to link me to her very own translation of part of Genesis. Ann can be very humorous, and I wouldn’t expect you to get it.

    What you also don’t get is the next step in the thinking. In a Socialist system, such as the hard-core Communism that China came out of with the death of Butcher Mao, the “commons” extend to almost everywhere. There is no incentive to take care of stuff, if there is no right to one’s property. Do you know anything about how badly Soviet Russia was trashed out over the 7 decades of Communism. China was in bad environmental shape too (overpopulation being a huge exacerbating effect too.) From what I’ve seen, people are becoming aware of that.

    No, it is “civilized” with a “Z”, unless you live in Hong Kong.

  72. SEB says:
    @d dan

    Non-acceptance of Constitution as reference
    Excessive self-indulgence of citizens
    Loss of honorable values of government officials

  73. @Chinaman

    OK, now I’ve some how gotten you off the rails, Chinaman, and I’m sorry about that. You were sounding reasonably lucid earlier..

    America was founded on the genocide of Indians and slavery of blacks. Plain and simple. It was founded by a bunch of lower caste beta males who couldn’t make it in their home country. This indelible mark of inferiority runs in the blood of all Americans and their congenital depravity is evident in contemporary American culture.

    There is so much stupidity there, that you leave me almost impressed. OK, firstly, the original American settlers were a pretty tough and enterprising people to take the dangerous voyages across the Atlantic Ocean in wooden sailing ships (when have the Chinese ever done that in 3500 years, hmmm?) to arrive in a complete wilderness. It was the freest place one could imagine, and America stayed that way through the early 1900s, though you’ll get lots of arguments for different dates.

    Then, the Americans who pushed on out west across the Great Plains were the toughest people around, living in dug-outs to start, eeking out a living from the soil on their own, with dangerous savage Indians, many of them pissed off* at the White Man.

    Slavery was a big mistake, very much the same as our current importation of millions to do cheap and even medium-cost labor is. The country would have run just fine without it, and, in fact the inventiveness of Americans that beats the living hell out of the Chinese, would have just resulted in mechanical cotton-picking devices earlier in our history.

    The word “democracy” appears nowhere in the Declaration of Independence, you moron, because the US was not meant to be a democracy. It was meant to be a Constitutional Republic, and it was the best there ever was till Lincoln, arguably, but more like until the FED, Amendments XVI, XVII, and the Socialist bastard FDR.

    Chinaman, your ignorance of history is giving me carpal tunnel syndrome. Please do some reading, elsewhere.


    * See, there’s where that property rights thing comes in. Unfortunately, for them, the Indians didn’t really get property rights, being savages. As for the common, regarding the Indians, Peak Stupidity asked “Are American Indians Slobs?”, and the bottom line was, “Who cares? It’s OK to be a slob when you have a 24/7/365 maid named “Mother Earth” to clean up after you.” It’s again, partly about population density.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  74. BuelahMan says:

    Poor Uncle Fred doesn’t know the difference between a Democracy and a Constitutional Republic.

    But keep telling us how good the Chinese and Mexicans are. MmmmKay?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  75. romar says:
    @MEH 0910

    The yearly average death toll from influenza in most Western countries runs in multiple thousands:
    France: the 2017-2018 flu epidemic killed 12,980
    Another “mild epidemic” last year led to 1,100 death in just the first three weeks of October.
    “The average number of deaths in England for the last five seasons, 2014/15 to 2018/19, was 17,000 deaths annually. This ranged from 28,330 deaths in 2014/15, to 1,692 deaths last season, 2018/19.”
    So coronavirus deaths are still relatively low compared with these above examples.

  76. I suspect you will receive an outpouring of rage from those with their heads firmly wedged in the sand (I nearly said somewhere else). It took time, but we now see the effect of majority rule. You surely pinned that one when you recognize the typical response of Americans toward the elite. Americans have become a bloated caricature of what once was a strong, proud nation. These slugs are the result of largesse in American society coupled with a liberal movement of a “right” to everything under the sun.

    It is interesting to watch the political turmoil in VA following the democrat takeover of state government there along with the associated move to curtail (ban) guns. This looks like the first litmus test of real opposition to the liberals. Will the people rise up if necessary? I hope so and would be honored to participate. The thought of living under the bootheel of those swine is intolerable.

  77. @d dan

    The military that murders people around the globe.

    The religious organizations that keep people believing in nonsense so believing in gov’t isn’t questioned.

    The Federal Reserve that funds deficit spending and steals from people’s saving at a preferred rate of 2% inflation per year.

  78. @Achmed E. Newman

    When they elected Hugo Chavez is when the economic and political machinations against Venezuela started. (Juan Guido is the modern version of the Shah put into power in Iran). Venezuela isn’t as strong as Russia or China to withstand it…. Which is why Russia is stepping in now to help Maduro. They aren’t going to allow another Libya (Iran isn’t going to be as easy for the west to topple). Frankly – neither is China…

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  79. @Achmed E. Newman

    You missed my point. But actually the numbers of LEGAL African immigrants is not too far off. In China there are a few hundred thousand.. In the US there are about 1.5 million legal African migrants – and about that many from the Caribbean. But the African and Caribbean migrants do much better economically and education wise than the American born blacks. Again – the reason why is self selection. The 40 million – of which many are under-achievers are the descendants of slaves brought over and those who were segregated outside the education and business system even after slavery ended… Ummmm – in case you didn’t know… Segregation lasted until the 1960’s in the US. The majority of the black population lived in that southern region.

    You can pretend reaping and sowing doesn’t exist – but that’s your problem.

    Contrast why China gets lambasted by the west. For “forcing” Uighurs to get jobs skills and education. Maybe you should lobby for that in the US since you feel blacks are the problem with everything. Or lobby – to give all blacks college grants – like many African students in China get. Then like China – send them back to Africa to build up Africa. Ghana initiated the year of return – so lobby your senator to work with Ghana on that initiative. Or better yet – lobby for them to go to college in China since it is less expensive with the stipulation they go to Africa. Use all the anger and channel it to do some good. It will help everyone…

    Also Maybe you should re-check the stats on who most of the drug addicts are in the United States.

    As to absolving the “common former middle class”… Again – that goes to the whole theme of this piece. People are uneducated and feel “free” because they get to vote. They have no clue of 80% of the issues that affect their day to day life but go for the sweet sounding words of the politicians they put in office. The Chinese have been losing low grade manufacturing for a decade… The children are taught to go into STEM careers (like South Korea did in the 80’s) and to start their own businesses. Why? The leaders don’t sell them sweet sounding words about bringing jobs back from Vietnam and Malaysia and Bangladesh. They tell them “we need to innovate so we can’t be controlled by outsiders”. The people listen.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  80. @WCC

    Hong Kong has a higher standard of living than US cities… The riots are happening why? Ask what the NED is doing there…
    In any event – Hong Kong is falling behind some mainland China cities precisely because it basically has the same system the Brits left… Except they can partially vote now.

    • Replies: @John Arthur
  81. Fred,

    It is always most gratifying to read your articles as you constantly have people from THE LAND OF THE FAT AND THE HOME OF THE FEARFUL (with apologies to The Scar Spangled Banner) send in all kinds of opposition to something of which they have absolutely no understanding at all.


    Very few Americans can meet your vast experience of living and working in the U.S.A. and other countries as less than 50% of them even have a passport in 2020. This number has skyrocketed over the past 30 years or so as back in 1990 only 4% had passports increasing to 15% by 1997. Despite this lack of exposure and coming from an educational system which has sunk to 37th in the world, many of them still comment on issues you raise as if they actually know what is going on elsewhere.


    As the numerous videos on YouTube clearly reveal, many Americans are pig-ignorant and proud of it. Most of them seem to be worryingly unaware of the fact the United Sates of America is sinking rapidly and inexorably into third world country status. If it s not already there!

    Keep up the great work – the rest of the world enjoys your portrayal of the many failures in and by America! War mongering, as you and the late & great George Carlin have always insisted, is something America has always been good at over the 243+ years of its existence!


  82. ruralguy says:

    Good writing, Fred

    It’s February, black national history month, where for one solid month we celebrate the race that has destroyed most of our major cities and destroyed our culture. They commit 1/2 of all crimes, but are celebrated on TV shows and commercials as paradigms of wisdom, while the white men who built this country are looked down as overly emotional idiots. In schools, they are adulated nearly continuously, while whites and their achievements are scorned. It’s time to end this idiocy.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  83. @Achmed E. Newman

    firstly, the original American settlers were a pretty tough and enterprising people to take the dangerous voyages across the Atlantic Ocean in wooden sailing ships (when have the Chinese ever done that in 3500 years, hmmm?)

    But they did, in 1421 (not the Atlantic but the Indian Ocean to Africa)

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  84. @Commentator Mike

    Minsk, seems to be spick and pan

    Spic and span but ugly. It was leveled in WWII and then rebuilt along brutalist Soviet lines.

  85. @Commentator Mike

    Yep, I have read about Zheng_He and his fleet, Mike. I should have written that as an exception. The Chinese could have done a lot of exploration, but that’s what happens with a controlling Central Government – they just didn’t get into the whole exploration business. Contrast that with the Western World, where, you get a sponsor, and you go… (granted, the spreading of Christianity was a big motivation.).

  86. @showmethereal

    There’s no place in the world in history that has gone Communist and come out the better for it. Of course, the US was going to quit trading with the place. Nobody ought to support that shit. Chavez and now Maduro are Communists and they can only use that excuse because they are somewhat near by.

    How’d N. Korea fare? Were all their problems since 1953 due to America?
    How about Cambodia?
    How about Russia, circa 1917?
    How about Red China from 1949 to the death of Mao in 1976
    How about Cuba? All American’s fault eh, for all 60 years of the Castros?
    How about Vietnam from 1975 until the 2,000s when the government lightened up?
    I don’t even want to get into Africa, the nations of which would be shitholes either way (until the Chinese re-colonize and whip things into shape – more power to ’em, BTW.)

    It doesn’t freaking work, man. The system of government’s taking from the “rich” and doling out to the poor creates disincentives for any people or concerns to do well materially.

  87. @showmethereal

    Segregation was a way for the South to keep their region from becoming what is now nationwide, inner city ghettos, with white flight out of the city, to the next county, out of the whole state oftentimes. It’s no excuse that one’s group is segregated or separated to explain why they’ve not come very far in 100 years. After desegregation, is the black culture any better? They went from 25-30% out-of-wedlock births to over 70%

    In the meantime, many White people would LUV LUV LUV to be segregated. They lose money on their houses to get to a safer area with better schools and be segregated. They pay \$20,000 yearly per kid to have their kids mostly segregated at private schools They don’t seem to mind at all, SMTR. They get called nasty names just for SAYING they want to be segregated and taken off Facebook and Twitter (not like I personally give a shit about FB and Twitter.) You don’t seem to know squat about American history.

    It’s been a 55-year-long, multi-TRILLION dollar experiment trying to get Blacks educated, ahead in life, and down with traditional America culture. You tell me the results. Let me get this straight. You don’t like the segregation that was practiced in the South, but you are OK with the Chinese doing whatever they want, forcibly, with the Uighurs and you recommend the same here. Yeah, you try it …

    American don’t feel free because they can vote. They feel free because they have a mindset that does not want to see the US Police State that has been built up since 9/11 and even before that. I do remember freedom in America, and it sure didn’t involve any of the bullshit that goes on with the Central Government in China, even with it not being the hard-core Commie era of Mao.

    • Agree: ruralguy
    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Showmethereal
  88. Biff says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I do remember freedom in America,

    You’re a hundred and fifty years old?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  89. @Biff

    The 1970s will do.

    Are you 12?

    • Replies: @Biff
  90. Some points:
    1. It is not USA versus China but an international private oligarchy that runs the ‘Western World’. This Anglo-Zionist powerblock has been in business for a long time and wields immense power. Brainwashed European Americans and Afro-Americans don’t run anything at all.
    2. USA finishes a poor second only if you play by the rules. Why do that when you can cheat and bring a shiv to a Marquess of Queensberry rules boxing match? Consider the 1979 Challenge Cup between NHL All-Stars and the USSR: as a commenter said “Look at the hit on Makarov in 2:35. Just as he scores he gets this violent hit to his head. That’s Canadian hockey, to me! And look at the significant non-reaction from the referees! Canadians never win matches were the referees to stop their dirty biz. When they can’t play dirty they are stripped of their most valuable means to win”.
    3. Chinese state propaganda is infantile, unsubtle and unsophisticated. In 1964 John Frankenheimer’s ‘Seven Days in May’ told us how the General(Burt Lancaster) would take over through the power of television broadcasting. Today the USA controls the information space including social media which they created. For information see on Lifelog and its doppelgänger Facebook. They who run America can wave a sorcerer’s wand and create 10,000 twitter trolls in an instant. If this is today’s world then imagine the world of the future when the social media is controlled by AI!
    4. China wants to be a commercial empire at peace with the world and helping other countries through socialist outreach. The implication is that the criminal, exploitative blood-sucking Western model would be exposed for what it is. This means all out war like Rome versus Carthage.
    5. See The USA will be able to position a naval force in the waterway between Alaska and Russia and stop use of the northern sea route. Neither Russia nor China has the naval power to thwart the USA. America is ‘The land of Freedom’ meaning freedom from your mortal coil, and sadistically done at that

  91. @Zhang Shoucheng

    Mr. “Shoucheng”, you’re not Chinese!

  92. LaoWei says:

    No racism in China? You aren’t paying attention,

    China has so highly evolved racism that they’re racist against other Chinese, other Asians, especially Japanese whites, and most especially blacks.

    The key point of difference they latch on to is language, with Mandarin speakers claiming superiority until they encounter Cantonese, who quickly point out that they are the ones who parlayed menial jobs into great wealth.

  93. @Zhang Shoucheng

    What “Funny Farms” did you and your cousin Achmed E. Newman escape from despite the heavy use of drugs by your good selves?

  94. Sure, China has many advantages. Yet:

    Having in mind what kind of society mainland China was & has become, Wittfogel’s remark on oriental despotism becomes pertinent….

    The good citizens of classical Greece drew strength from the determination of two of their countrymen, Sperthias and Bulis, to resist the lure of total power. On their way to Suza, the Spartan envoys were met by Hydarnes, a high Persian official, who offered to make them mighty in their homeland, if only they would attach themselves to the Great King, his despotic master. To the benefit of Greece-and to the benefit of all free men-Herodotus has preserved their answer. “Hydarnes,” they said, “thou art a one-sided counselor. Thou hast experience of half the matter; but the other half is beyond thy knowledge. A slave’s life thou understandest; but, never having tasted liberty, thou canst not tell whether it be sweet or no. Ah! hadst thou known what freedom is, thou wouldst have bidden us fight for it, not with the spear only, but with the battle-axe.”

  95. moe says: • Website

    I think that Washington DC is a sewer of graft and corruption, but honestly, I dont think anything can save this once great country’s demise.

  96. @Achmed E. Newman

    Are you going to try with a straight face to claim southern segregation was supposed to help blacks??? Are you with a straight face going to say prior to very recently – that opportunity was similar??? So many of you George Wallace types still around. No wonder you all are so nervous of being passed by China.
    You obviously are not too good with critical thinking. The issue with the Uighurs is the exact opposite. Now that the terrorists have been vanquished – that region is far safer than the US. Most Uighurs enjoy their lives in spite of the propagand. The secular ones anyway. Uighurs like other minorities in China get FAR more favorable policies than minorities in the US ever got through affirmative action.
    In any event – stop wasting your time complaining and do what I said. Lobby your congressional representatives to sponsor education for all blacks for free – with the intent that they will leave and go to Africa. Put your money where your mouth is. Stop wasting time blaming blacks – Jews – Chinese for all the ills in your life.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  97. @Achmed E. Newman

    You are correct that communism doesnt work…. But Chavez and Maduro arent communists. Socialist doesnt equal communist. Maybe in the US train of thought – but not in the rest ofmthe world. In any event – you can pretend economic warfare doesnt exist… Except there are literally books written about it by former perpetrators.
    But as to your thought of whether nations can always blame the US for their faults.. Again lets try an experiment. Lobby your congress members… Remove all restrictions and sanctions against Russia – Venezuela and Iran and Cuba and even North Korea. That is the only way we can know for sure. I doubt it would ever happen because the fear that some can prosper…

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  98. @Showmethereal

    The reading comprehension is just not happening for you here. I was telling you that segregation was a good thing for the WHITES. They did not have to sell their houses at a loss, keep moving every 20 years, and commute in heavy traffic 1/2 hour each way to work for their whole lives. Going back before the black riots of the 1960s/70s American inner cities were very nice with white people living right downtown – amazing, right?!

    What I was saying, is after 5 1/2 decades of being given breaks, AA, free shit left and right, lots of the Black people are NOT better off culturally, and many not materially even, than in the days of segregation. (Socialism is bad for people of all races/ethnicities, BTW)

    I seriously doubt the Uighurs are getting as many breaks as the Blacks in America have. Do they get this treatment anywhere among the Han people in China or only in the areas reserved for them, kept out there in the high desert of Xinjiang(?) I’ll just bet it’s safer out there than in most of Detroit or downtown Baltimore – no doubt in my mind.

    Anyway, I have no problem with whatever the Chinese people do. Could you follow a thread and not see that? I also have not really said a whole lot about Jews in all my many comments. Your reading comprehension is for shit, my friend.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  99. @Showmethereal

    But Chavez and Maduro arent communists. Socialist doesnt equal communist.

    Bull. Ask ’em. (OK, just the latter, as Chavez is thankfully Rotting In Place, right?)

    Sure remove the sanctions – I’ve got no problem with your experiment. America is too broke to be messing in any other country’s business other than Trump’s agreements with AMLO and Mexico to keep the illegal immigration down. Even if we weren’t broke, per US Constitution, not a whole lot of foreign policy of America’s has been Constitutional for a long time.

    BTW, Socialism is nothing but proto-Communism. It’s the same thing without the overt threats of the ditch or the gulag. From Peak Stupidity‘s post “Socialism – stuff you should have learned by Kindergarten”:

    Now, socialism is often thought of as just Communism-light, a friendly, nice, compassion version. No, no cultural revolutions planned, no mass graves (planned). it’s gonna be neighborly, dontcha know, like in the nice little towns in Vermont or Sweden (before the invasion). We’re gonna all discuss things, over lattes; we’re going to keep it calm and soothing, like National Public Radio, but sure, yeah, at some point we’ve gotta to redistribute some of your stuff. No, no, no, nothing like that, just some taxes that you pay … well, yeah you’ve gotta pay ‘em… sure…. the tax people are our people… very friendly… what do you mean, “what if I don’t?”… I mean sure, eventually they’ll call guys with guns… but we don’t expect that … we don’t even LIKE guns!.. Ewwww.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  100. Biff says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The 1970s will do.

    Ahhh, the decade that ushered in the war on drugs, Kent State massacre, and dissolution of the draft, so no one in uniform will ever question the forever wars again… Them were the days…

  101. @Biff

    The War on Drugs started in the ’80s, Biff. Dissolution of the draft is against freedom? What the hell drugs are you smoking and in what decade did you purchase them.

  102. @showmethereal

    Don’t all the observers say that the Hong Kong riots are over the lack of housing built due to regulations. HK wages are *far* higher than other Chinese cities. The Cheap housing is why Singapore is so rich in PPP levels.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  103. @Chinaman

    I should think it is only a matter of a short wait before it will be possible to point the lens of your cellphone at a piece of text in Chinese (or any other tongue, come to that) and have it speak or write it for you in your own language. Such an app would ease the learning process for slow-learning westerners wanting to master mandarin.

  104. @Achmed E. Newman

    How’d N. Korea fare? Were all their problems since 1953 due to America?
    How about Cambodia?
    How about Russia, circa 1917?
    How about Red China from 1949 to the death of Mao in 1976
    How about Cuba? All American’s fault eh, for all 60 years of the Castros?
    How about Vietnam from 1975 until the 2,000s when the government lightened up?

    How about Cambodia? Glad you asked! The country was bombed extremely heavily, though the USA which did the bombing did not declare war on it. The CIA enabled Pol Pot to come to power and we all know a bit of what that monster did to the country. However, I think it would be fair to say that their problems practically all stem from the way they were treated by the USA.

    How did North Korea fare ? Well, after being bombed flat by the USAAF they tried very hard to get back to some sort of normal standard of living, but not merely did the US not trade with them, that would have been no great problem and of course the US has the right to not trade with whomsoever they like, but the US imposed sanctions on anyone else who wanted to trade with them. This was intended to hurt them and it did, & still does.

    Red China, as you call it, survived the Korean war and built itself up from “the Sick Man of Asia to a moderately livable and well educated country in spite of US embargos and sanctions and the GCR doubling its average wage every ten years. There is an interesting new book out by a Swiss researcher who had the novel idea of asking farmers and rural residents (Rather than intellectuals and middle class people.) about their experiences of the Great Cultural Revolution. It seems, that to them, it was a wonderful turning point and something of a liberation! Anyway, by the time Deng decided to allow US industry to exploit China’s proletariat China already had a huge industrial base and infrastructure that was not there in 1949 and a lot of technically savvy workers.

    Cuba has survived in spite of constant efforts by the US to hinder and obstruct its development and in spite of (what was it, 66 efforts to murder Castro?) they have managed to become a well educated and relatively well run society. Not affluent certainly but not impossible as the US would certainly like. As is well known they export well-respected medical doctors all over the Americas, some even, to the USA.

    Vietnam, after having more bombs dropped on it than were dropped in WW2, doused in napalm and the highly toxic Agent Orange and still to this day, littered with unexploded ordinance, survives. Not very well by the accounts of Linh Dinh but that they survived at all is to their credit.

    Yes, to answer your question, the problems of the countries run by communists have been mostly “Made in the USA”

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  105. DB Cooper says:

    “Anyway, by the time Deng decided to allow US industry to exploit China’s proletariat China already had a huge industrial base and infrastructure that was not there in 1949 and a lot of technically savvy workers.”

    That’s not true. Blackout is a common if not daily occurance as late as the in the 1980s. There is basically no infrastructure to speak of during the thirty years the fucker Mao was in charge. The best illustration is to go to the Bund in Shanghai and take a look. On one side of the Whampo river are old European style buildings built pre 1949. On the other side are modern high rises cropped up in the mid 1990s to present day. When Deng took over China was poorer than the land grabbing shithole India.

    Anyway the US dropped more bombs on Laos than in Germany and Japan combined during WWII. So Laos was pretty fucked up by the US too.

  106. @DB Cooper

    That is true – China was poorer than India when Deng took over. One other point to address is the idea that US industry rebuilt China. Not really. It was late. It was Taiwan and Hong Kong companies and then Chinese in ASEAN countries. Then Japan went in – and then US and other western companies… People (not you) often get it confused. In the same way Foxconn makes Iphones in in China – not Apple. Apple now has R&D in China – but it doesnt make the Iphones.

    And yes everyone forgets about the bombing of Laos.

  107. @John Arthur

    Well no that is the cause of the angst among the young people. But the organized structure funding and exploiting the situation isnt because of that. NYC and London have the same problem of expesnive housing and have more crime – but there are no riots.

    But my point about the system left over from the British indeed is behind the angry youth being priced out because of “regulation”. The Brits thought it easier to manage HK if oligarchs controlled the market. That system persisted. Since HK has some of the lowest taxes in the world – one of the main way they raise money through land sales. Their is an artificial contriction on land building. Great if you want to go hiking or grow vegetables in the city – but not kf you want a decent place to live and are not rich. Dont get me wrong – I believ in having both – but the land use in Hong Kong is riculously skewed (even as late as tye 80’s HK movies could easily use parts of the territory to film exact forests or rural farmland). The oligarchs buy from the government at the highest possible price. The oligarchs of course are then going to sell apartments at the highest possible price. Supply is always less than demand in HK. So yes that has created the seething in the underclass – but some like to claim it is Beijing’s fault because HK doesnt have enough “freedom” (eye roll)..

    But yes Singapore is a model that mainland cities like Shenzen are starting to follow. They know the Hong Kong model doesnt benefit the little people. Singapore indeed has a higher quality of life than Hong Kong. Singapore also has less “freedom” than Hong Kong (in western sensibility)… But again – no one is rioting.

  108. @Biff

    Yeah reminds me of the theme song for All in the Family (one of the most brilliant television shows – even if it did placate feminism and loose sexual mores too much)… Yearning for the days of Herbert Hoover. Lol

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  109. @Achmed E. Newman

    5 and 1/2 decades of breaks???? Are you seriously with a straight face going to say even in the north – blockbusting – redlining – employment discrimination etc. did not exist..?? African and Carribean blacks never suffered under it in the same way as US born blacks so are more successful. Again – you reap what you sow….

    And please spare me the talk of how tranquil inner cities were before blacks and Hispanics. Irish – Italian – Eastern European Jewish gangs were very prevelant. So were houses of gambling and prostitution and many other social ills.

    And to answer your question – minorities in China are afforded great opportunity than Han anywhere. That is part of the “problem” among religious fundamemtalists in Xinjiang and Tibet. There children were “stolen” or “forced” to go learn in educational institutions of various levels and then return to their home province with all these “strange and evil” ideas like modernization. To put it in a way you can understand – it would be like those in the inner cities who turn up their nose at college educated blacks for “talking white”.
    But you might find interesting this Australian study that compares minorities in China to that of the US. Even though the people in the audience want to disbelieve his findings – the third party data can be verified

    But in the end while you didnt mention Chinese and Jews in this thread – those are usually the other two blame groups for white supremacists/separtists like yourself. If you are one of the few who only blames blacks – well I take it back. But again – start lobbying your representatives for real repatriation of blacks. But the peace you are looking for – the indigenous population might start to make a shout for you to return to Europe. They could point out that thwy had peace before mercenaries and then poor and hungry refugees from Europe flooded their shores. They never were fond of “Mayberry”.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  110. @Achmed E. Newman

    All “isms” have variations to them. They are far too complicated for political satire. Maduro has no clue about economics and Chavez wasnt much better…. But the poor people love them for a reason. That doesnt make them communists either. Cuba is still a communist country… Its economy doesnt work and it doesnt have oil to fund projects and programs like Venezuela does. It is also true that Cuba produces the best doctors in the western hemisphere south of the United States – such that even Brazil had them working there.
    But again – why does the US attempt to sabotage systems that dont work.? China and Russia dont have communist economies anymore. Do they threaten to cut off all business with Cuba unless they adopt the same system? No… Do they tell Maduro what Venezuela can do with their oil money?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  111. @Showmethereal

    If you weren’t there, what the hell do you know about it? I WAS (no not during Herbert Hoover’s time, but Archie Bunker’s). The Chinese and young people like you wouldn’t know freedom if it came up and bit you on the ass.

    Write about something you DO know about for a while, as you do for some of your China comments. Otherwise, your comments turn out like garbage.

  112. @Showmethereal

    Again these reading comprehension problems crop up. 5 1/2 decades SINCE. Holy crap, Affirmative Action has been going on for that time, and white men have been screwed out of jobs and whole careers due to this shit. Just on the former, a close friend was turned down for a DJ job at a small radio station (something he would have just loved), because they had to hire a black guy to please the FCC – wait, let me finish – it was a COUNTRY MUSIC station. Would a soul/R&B station (the black music at the time) have hired a white guy to diversity? No freaking way! There’s your employment discrimination, as MANDATED by the US Government.

    It’s been Socialism for whites and black since the Johnson Administration in the mid-1960s (yes 55 years), but blacks took proportionally the most advantage of it.

    Are you getting your information from the Blue-squad of the party, SMTR? It’s complete garbage. You don’t even understand a bit of it, so you just may have had heard these terms that are BAD BAD BAD white people things. Get a clue. Let me help.

    “Redlining”, a term not heard from the end of the integration fiasco until recently, meant the marking out of districts for loaning money to prospective buyers. Why? Cause they were a bad risk. Black people are often still a much worse risk. Even black guys that have good businesses cannot pay things on time, and don’t give a damn about it.

    See, banks don’t like that, or I should say, didn’t until the Feral Gov’t decided that they were being bad by not loaning money that would result in losses on average. So, the Feds starting forcing, and better yet, guaranteeing mortgages for years. That all worked great when housing prices kept going up, with only a few downturns, for a run of 3 decades – it didn’t work out so great by 2007*.

    “Blockbusting” was a measure taken against WHITES, not blacks, so don’t make careless accusations using terminology of which you have no idea. The deal here was that unscrupulous RE people would make a deal with one homeowner to sell to black people. Knowing the loss of safety for their kids, the property crime, the noise, and the trash to come, others on the block would sell as quickly as they could to these same “blockbusting” agents, and at a loss. Why? Prices go down in a heartbeat once you have many sellers. The last few standing may as well give away their houses. OK, so you got this one, now, SMTR?

    After the time that Abraham Lincoln brought your idea up, there was one reason white people in America didn’t do anything as Orwellian as the forced “re-education” that the Chinese have put the Uighurs through. That is, white people in America could not do such stuff based on their own consciences and, more nowadays, for fear of being called nasty terms by their countrymen and people all over the world. I do not doubt you that the Chinese method is producing “good” results. It shows more than a lack of respect for these Uighurs (and the Tibetans, for that matter), as it’s the kind of program that people in white countries get called evil racist bastards for. (Note that the Aussies tried with their Abo’s 100 years back, and little thanks they got!)

    PS: There was not much peace among the Indians in America before the white man either. The tribes were almost always at war with each other, especially out on the great plains.


    * No, I’m not putting all of the huge money bailed out to banks in 2008 on loans to blacks and Hispanics. Once the cat was out of the bag, the banks figured they had nothing to lose (they were right, it turns out) and made stupid loans to everyone without regard to color and creed …

    • Replies: @d dan
  113. @Showmethereal

    Of course Chavez and Maduro were/are Communists. That’s why their economy doesn’t work. That’s why all of the Communist countries in history had and have sick economies.

    You bring up the oil. That’s a great point. They’ve got all that oil yet are still in so sad a shape. When the State runs the show, the incentives to invest and develop are gone, as you must either be a crony who is in with the government or you won’t know when your business will be ruined by a new law that could come any day (the way things have been going in America in many areas since Socialism here). Many will just take their ball and go home.

    So what if Cuba has the best doctors? Because there are no free-market incentives, their talents will not be realized until, as you say, they leave the place. Do you know how many Cubans (not counting the criminals of the Muriel boat lift) have come to Miami over the 6 decades? There was undoubtedly a lot of smarts and talent that would have been wasted in a Communist “economy”.

    No, the US Government absolutely does not have to sabotage those countries of which you write. We are not (shouldn’t be anyway) enemies anymore. During the Cold War, we WERE enemies – you don’t help out the enemy that wants to turn the whole world Communist, and that was the situation. The relationship we have with modern-day Russia and China is something you and I would probably agree on, but it’s different subject.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  114. I have only one question; why do we believe what the Chinese tell us about their progress?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  115. Angharad says:

    Fred is a tiny little man, married to a Mexican Jew.

  116. Angharad says:
    @Add Spinach

    Oh? Is that why Jews are so into the Chinese? Whites are losing interest in buying useless garbage, and the Chinese love buying lots of useless garbage?

    Not in Wuhan, anymore…

  117. @Achmed E. Newman

    You should have just responded with an “LOL” like you did to the other poster. Your responses are full of emotion and dont actually the address anything except “who is the white man – everybody is mean to the white man – everyone oppresses the white man”. Reaping and sowing.. I wonder if racists like you still exists because your daughter ran off with a black man or something. You still cannot address the fact that legal immigrant blacks from Africa and Carribbean are successful in education and home ownership and running businesses. You still cant get through your skull why they are different.

    I had to laugh when you talk about all the Cuban talent in Miami… So do you support the Mexicans being able to come into to..??? Or is it because the Cubans who fled are closer to “white”..???

    I already said Communist economies dont work. You still dont get the point about sabotage. Aside from CIA operations to destroy the economies of Chile and Jamaica in the seventies – there are others who have written about the operations they took part in to destabilize other governments. A true communist economy can never work. All the destabilization and sanctions and sabotage do is starve poor people or cause them to be killed in the chaos. But I guess they are the wrong ethnic groups to matter.
    If someone attacks you or your house… Defend yourself. Attempting to exert comtrol over others is not the same thing.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  118. @Showmethereal

    The foolish old man was so full of shit that I didn’t have the time. You’re right I shouldn’t do that type of LOL, but, alas, I found no FOS tag.

    I don’t have any daughters who ran off with black men. I just am a realist, I live here, and I have seen it all*. That’s why I agree with you that, in general, the blacks out of Africa do fairly well compared to those that have the ancestry of the W. Africans captured 400-whatever years back by the slave traders. However, you can’t have a whole country of these same Africans that (the best of which) have come to America and Britain without, well, having Africa again.

    As to the Cubans, YES, with the exception of the Muriel criminals, they’ve been the best and brightest. (Lots of ’em came early on, when it was somewhat easier to get out.) I had never really thought of what color they are, since I don’t live anywhere near Miami. From what I read of Steve Sailer, just like the best and brightest in Mexico, they lean toward a whiter shade of pale…

    Dude, are you daft, man? The Commies in Russia were white at the driven snow! How’s that fit in with your asinine theories about me? We had no reason to help the Soviet Union out, even though a few times early on Americans did. Read sometime about the shipping of millions of tons of food aid to them during the early 1920s. A future president named Herbert Hoover was involved in that act of charity.


    * BTW, if you want to actually learn, rather than write about stuff that you know nothing about other than from Blue-squad talking points, you may want to read the occasional Sailer post, or Paul Kersey.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  119. d dan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I can attest to the fact that until about 2 decades ago, there were residential home sale contracts that still contained clauses to indicate that non-white buyers were not allowed. The sales agents told me the clauses were outdated and could be crossed out. They told me that those clauses were valid until 1960s or 1970s (can’t remember exact date). So the segregation was actually more prevalent (even in the liberal California) and lasted longer than I thought.

    Also, Achmed, I think you are wrong about your comparison of Uighurs vs black. I believe Uighurs are being treated better in China than blacks are being treated in US. Uighurs enjoy a lot of privileges that are not granted to the Han Chinese, e.g. besides the affirmative action, they also have preferential tax rates and various exemptions. Probably the closest group in US would be the native American (I think) rather than the black. The only drawback for Uighurs is that they are being profiled and monitored more closely than the blacks in US.

    As for the much maligned “concentration camp” for the millions, they are really adult education and job (re-)training camp. I would consider that to be a privilege rather than punishment, especially if you have no earning skills. I believe many lower income Hans (and blacks and whites) could also benefit from such programs if available. Unfortunately, it costs money to run and is not very popular (who want to be forced to attend classes?)

  120. @d dan

    Thanks for the reply, Mr. Dan. Sure you can dig up a contract with an outdated clause, and I believe you that these may have very well been in place in the mid-1970s. To be really specific, though, Americans think of integration (the end of segregation) as if not just the prohibition of purposeful segregation, the forcing (which was what it really was) of it, in the SCHOOLS. That was the really big step, as the kids didn’t have a way out.

    The forced busing across town of blacks and whites in many cities wreaked havoc with education, got a whole lot of white kids beat up and given a terrible childhood that was not necessary, and started whites (especially in the South) creating private schools faster than a fast food joint gets put up. It was especially nasty, Mr. Dan, in northern cities like Boston, in which a lot of blacks had accumulated, but the people weren’t as easy-going and used to trying to get along, as in the South. It didn’t go well in Boston at all!

    What I’m trying to say is that many American people mean busing and educational integration really, when they speak of integration. Neighborhoods were block-busted and all that, but there was always the choice of losing one’s ass on the house, or going for a private school, to create a decent life for the kids.

    In general, American churches are segregated almost to the degree they were in 1950, excepting the lots of immigrants (or descendants thereof), and there are no laws about this. People do what they want to do, and the US Gov’t has not attacked the churches yet. (The churches are killing themselves, but that’s a whole ‘nother story.)

  121. @d dan

    See, Mr. Dan, the comparison of the Uighurs and Black people was not my point to begin with. Your comparison of the Uighers with the American Indians is probably a much better fit. I agreed with SMTR that the programs the Chinese have may be very successful, but success for the Uighers, as far as their culture goes, may mean a much different thing than what the Chinese consider success. That is very much like the situation with the American Indians.

    The Chinese are forcing this “re-education” etc. on the Uighers. Honestly, I don’t care, as neither of these people are part of my business. However, it takes a lot of damn gall for anyone to criticize the 55 year-long (so far!) program of coddling of black people in America, and even segregation before then. Nobody was forcing anyone to learn this or believe that. Even so, the criticism from people who don’t know a damn thing about it is extreme to this day (they bring up terms from the 1960s and don’t even have them correct!)

    Do you know the story of the Australians’ sending the Aboriginal kids to boarding schools to become fit for the white culture and rules? I think it was damn near a century ago. It may not have been mandatory like the Chinese plan for the Uighers, but the Australians will never hear the end of it. The horror!

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  122. Brendan says:

    I can’t believe Fred is using the Coronavirus as an example that reflects well on China.

  123. @Simply Simon

    Nonsense. People who can move (about 2% of us) move to opportunities.

    There are fewer opportunities for foreigners in China because the competition there is 100x tougher than in the US.

    Read The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective By Puzhong Yao. American Affairs.

  124. @BuelahMan

    China is the world’s largest democracy. You can read it right here:

  125. @DB Cooper

    There is basically no infrastructure to speak of during the thirty years the fucker Mao was in charge.?

    During Mao’s 25 postwar years, under crushing embargoes on finance, food, agricultural and scientific equipment and international participation, Mao outgrew our booming economy by 100%, ended famines; doubled China’s population from 542 million to 956 million; doubled life expectancy; doubled caloric intake; quintupled GDP; quadrupled literacy; increased grain production three hundred percent; increased gross industrial output forty-fold; increased heavy industry ninety-fold; increased rail lineage 266 percent; increased passenger train traffic from 102,970,000 passengers to 814,910,000.; increased rail freight tonnage two thousand percent; increased the road network one thousand percent; increased steel production from zero to thirty-five MMT/year; increased industry’s contribution to China’s net material product from twenty-three percent to fifty-four percent; put satellites into orbit; developed the atomic bomb and the hydrogen bomb faster than anyone in history; left China debt-free and independent.

    According to data provided by the World Bank, expressed at constant prices (base 1980) and in ten-year averages, China’s economic growth rate was 6.8 percent between 1970 and 1979, i.e., more than double that of the United States during the same period (3.2 percent, also at 1980 constant prices).4 Furthermore, according to the official GDP series published by China’s National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) since its creation in 1952 up until today, the growth rate of China’s GDP averaged 8.3 percent annually from 1952 to 2015, with a strong 6.3 percent between 1952 and 1978 and an even stronger 9.9 percent between 1979 and 2015. These percentages are expressed at constant prices in base 1952 and standardized to take into account the statistical breaks that marked the accounting transition from the Material Product System (MPS) to the more “modern” System of National Accounts (SNA).5 Nevertheless, if we exclude the very first years of the People’s Republic from 1952 to 1962—i.e., between the completion of the unification of the continental territory and the period of the break with the Soviet Union—there is a recorded average of 8.2 percent per annum GDP growth rate in the period of 1963–78, reflecting very rapid growth even during the Cultural Revolution.the average growth rates of the capital stock that we called “productive” (including equipment, machinery, tools, industrial buildings, and facilities, but not residential buildings and their land value) showed very little difference over the two subperiods of 1952–78 and 1979–2015: 9.7 percent for the first subperiod and 10.9 percent for the second. If we retain a larger productive capital stock, including the inventories, which are important for calculating the rotation rate of circulating capital, we see that the average rhythm of accumulation of such a stock was slightly higher between 1952 and 1978 (10.41 percent) than between 1979 and 2015 (10.39 percent). Moreover, if we select an even larger capital stock to also include the constructed residential buildings and their land, not directly productive components, the growth rate of this very large capital stock continued to be high, averaging 9.1 percent from 1952 to 1978 compared to 10.9 percent from 1979 to 2015. It is, therefore, quite clear that the capital accumulation effort is not a recent phenomenon, but that it has been continuously decided and planned by the Chinese authorities over the past six decades.

    It is this sustained effort of accumulation, enabled in particular by surplus transfers from rural areas, that explains the success of industrialization and, to a large extent, the robust rate of GDP growth.[Development Indicators (Washington, DC: World Bank, various years) –The Enigma of China’s Growth. Zhiming Long and Rémy Herrera. Monthly Review, Dec 1, 2018; China Statistical Yearbook (Beijing: National Bureau of Statistics of China, various years),

    Between 1945 and 1974, Mao
    Ended death from starvation
    doubled China’s population from 542 million to 956 million
    doubled life expectancy
    doubled caloric intake
    quintupled GDP
    quadrupled literacy
    increased grain production three hundred percent
    increased gross industrial output forty-fold
    increased heavy industry ninety-fold.
    increased rail lineage 266 percent
    increased passenger train traffic from 102,970,000 passengers to 814,910,000.
    increased rail freight tonnage two thousand percent
    increased the road network one thousand percent.
    increased steel production from zero to thirty-five MMT/year
    Increased industry’s contribution to China’s net material product from twenty-three percent to fifty-four percent.
    Put satellites into orbit
    Developed the atomic bomb and the hydrogen bomb faster than anyone in history
    Left China debt-free and independent.

    • Replies: @SBaker
  126. SBaker says:
    @John Robert Mallernee

    Excellent commentary sir. The novel corona virus with inserts from HIV is engineered, for what, we don’t know. China also has an out of control epidemic of African Swine Fever, having resulted in the extermination of a 100 million head of their domestic herd. China is the #1 producer of pork on the planet and the biggest consumer of pork. These outbreaks are causing serious economic strain.

  127. Patricus says:

    Fred has been warped by his hatred of his native country and people.

    Having politicians with degrees in engineering and medicine is just a waste of that education. How does engineering prepare one for governance? If 30% of the citizens were engineering grads these people would be 98% unemployed. These are useful professions but only a small number can be employed even in the most modern societies.

    Trains that travel 500 miles per hour are a collosal boondoggle. The cost can never be recovered. Trains are 19th century technology and these are useful for moving heavy freight. Passenger rail loses big money everywhere, including the heavily used railways between cities in Europe and Asia. Designing superfast trains gliding on magnetic fields is absurd. Think of an ox cart guided by lasers.

    As inferior as our people and universities might be, why do Chinese and others pay to attend our idiot universities.? How is it that dumb Americans have led in every innovation if all of us are congenitally inferior?

    Self-loathing corrupts one’s judgment.

    I will take represenative government over the best authoritarian technocrats.

    • Agree: SBaker
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  128. ruralguy says:

    When I visited China, last year, the people seemed more civilized, homogeneous, and intelligent than most Americans, in both the rural areas and the many cities that I visited. But, you can see a deep sense of unhappiness and glum in most faces. But, that isn’t the worst aspect of the country. You really feel the tension of being surrounded by the immensity of 1.4 billion people. I’m a very conservative guy, but I understand why China adopted Communism, after being there. The country feels like a powder keg ready to go off. I think they need that totalitarian government to keep it from going off. That’s why so many want to move here.

  129. SBaker says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    A slave is still a slave regardless of how well he is cared for. For centuries past there have been slave owners; some took care of their slaves and some didn’t. Those who didn’t soon lost their empire, didn’t they?

  130. Firstly, whether we think of the US as a democracy, a republic, or even an empire, what’s important to note is, not only the mindset of its key decision makers (who, in the case of the US, I refer to as the Cabal) – but also, how the general populace think of themselves as citizens of that nation.

    That being said, in addition to the points of distinction made by the author, the Chinese take a long-term view of their economic development, and hence, prosperity; the US on the other hand, suffers from a short-term gain mentality.

    There is no greater evidence for this than the dramatic difference as to how the two countries approach trade. The US employs, what is called, Globalism, i.e. the dominance of one nation over all other nations as can be seen by its 780 – 1000 military bases worldwide and its many puppet states around the world. On the other hand, by implementing its Belt-Road-Initiative (BRI), China rolls out Globalization (often mistakenly referred to in Western media) seeking to develop mutually beneficial trade agreements for its manufactured products – as it strives to create markets in adjacent, less developed countries for such goods.

    Witness the stellar progress made by the Shanghai Co-operation Organization (SCO), aka the Shanghai Pact, which has expanded its membership from 5 to 8 nations – when India & Pakistan joined as full members in 2017 – and with its 4 observer states & 6 dialogue partners eyeing membership – has become the world’s largest regional organization in terms of its geographical expanse, covering 3/5ths of Eurasia, and by population, including more than 50% of the world’s total population.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  131. @Patricus

    Trains that travel 500 miles per hour are a collosal boondoggle. The cost can never be recovered. They have proven so profitable in China that private companies have begun building them.

    why do Chinese and others pay to attend our idiot universities.? Because they cannot get into
    China’s much better, free universities.

    How is it that dumb Americans have led in every innovation if all of us are congenitally inferior? We did while we kept China under embargo but, since we lifted it, China has seized the lead in science and technology.

    I will take representative government over the best authoritarian technocrats. Representative of whom? Political Science Professors Gilens and Page found that ‘the preferences of the average American appear to have a near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy’ as they showed in their exhaustive 2017 study Democracy in America?:

    “the best evidence indicates that the wishes of ordinary Americans…have…little or no impact on the making of federal government policy. Wealthy individuals and organized interest groups—especially business corporations—have…much more political clout…the general public [is] … virtually powerless . . . The will of majorities is…thwarted by the affluent and the well-organized, who block popular policy proposals and enact special favors for themselves . . …Majorities of Americans favor specific policies designed to deal with such problems as climate change, gun violence, an untenable immigration system, inadequate public schools, and crumbling bridges and highways . . .Large majorities of America favor various programs to help provide jobs, increase wages, help the unemployed, provide universal medical insurance, ensure decent retirement pensions, and pay for such programs with progressive taxes. Most Americans also want to cut ‘corporate welfare.’ Yet the wealthy, business groups, and structural gridlock have mostly blocked such new policies [and programs].”[2]

    Page and Gilens find, “government policy…reflects the wishes of those with money, not the wishes of the millions of ordinary citizens who turn out every two years to choose among the preapproved, money-vetted candidates for federal office”. “When citizens are relatively equal [economically], politics has tended to fairly democratic. When a few individuals hold enormous amounts of wealth, democracy suffers.”

    Using data drawn from over 1,800 different policy initiatives from 1981 to 2002, the two conclude that rich, well-connected individuals on the political scene now steer the direction of the country, regardless of or even against the will of the majority of voters.

    “The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy,” they write, “while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence.” (Princeton Study: U.S. No Longer An Actual Democracy, Talking Points memo, 4.18.2014) ‘Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens’.
    Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page.

    China, by contrast, enjoys real democracy. No matter how you slice it–constitutionally, electively, popularly, procedurally, operationally, substantively or financially–China comes out ahead. In survey after survey, it’s the most trusted government in the world and its policies enjoy the highest support. Don’t believe me? Read ‘Selling Democracy to the Chinese’

  132. Vidi says:
    @Xi's on first

    Built a hospital in 10 days? Have you seen the pictures? It is a place to keep sick people until they either get better in cramped conditions with others who have the same and sometimes additional illnesses, or die.

    China calls Huoshenshan and Leishenshan “makeshift” hospitals; that is what they are, though they actually look surprisingly decent inside the rooms. They are better than nothing. How many hospitals, makeshift or otherwise, did the U.S. build against the 2009 swine flu, which killed 6000 times more people than Covid-19 has so far?

    The purpose is to separate, not cure.

    Of course, as there is no cure for most viruses. The current medical practice is to let the human body’s immune system fight a viral infection. The body usually wins, and that is why the death rate is only 2 percent or so for Covid-19 — and about 0.2 percent outside Hubei province. All the hospitals and thousands of medics flying to Wuhan are for preventing secondary infections, which they do quite well.

  133. lysias says:
    @Just passing through

    In an electoral so-called democracy, the worst rise to the top. In an Athenian-style democracy, in which representatives and officials are chosen by lot, average citizens rise to the top.

  134. lysias says:

    Adopt the Athenian system of choosing representatives and officials by lot, and you don’t have to worry about how votes are counted. There will be no votes to count.

  135. lysias says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Memorizing the spelling of thousands of English words is about as difficult as memorizing thousands of Chinese characters. I can make the comparison, ss I have done both.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  136. @Achmed E. Newman

    It’s a waste responding to most of what you wrote – I will simply address the Russian part. Russians are not accepted as the “right” type of whites. Don’t even bother to pretend they are.

    As to the rest – never mind. Well you could have tried to write FOS to the comment above – but you can’t actually refute the words he wrote. Got it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  137. @d dan

    Indeed. People like him don’t like to live in reality. In NYC – the most diverse place in the United States – there was not one single non white person in the pioneering development in the Bronx called “Parkchester” until the late 1960’s (’68 I believe). Separate and VERY unequal. In NYC – the global melting pot!!!
    But white supremacists cannot acknowledge such things.

    As to what you wrote about the Uighurs – you are correct. All ethnic minorities in China get LOADS of incentives that are far above what blacks or latinos get in the United States.

  138. @Patagonia Man

    The SCO is an example of Russia and China moving toward each other long before the Crimea issue. Pakistan was brought in via China and India brought in via Russia. That was a big accomplishment. The SCO was formed because of the war in Afghanistan and both knew jihadists would begin to destabilize Central Asia and fringes of their own countries. But yeah – many who only follow the MSM have no clue.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  139. @Achmed E. Newman

    Uighurs are not expected to become Han. They are only expected to learn Mandarin. They can keep their own Uighur language. Also comparing them to the aborigines in Australia makes no sense. White Australians are not native. Xinjiang first became part of China during Qin dynasty days in BC times. In fact – at different times China controlled up to Lake Balkash in what is now Kazakhstan… Bottom line the Uighurs are later migrants to that area than Han people. Australia is the exact opposite. But China’s main gaffe was not compelling them to have to speak Mandarin in schools. Had there not been terrorist attacks by separatists – the policy would likely never have changed. So no – not the same. You don’t wonder what Miao and Zhuang and other minority groups don’t have the same complaints as Uighurs and Tibetans…? Simple. They never had armed insurrections funded and aided by foreigners… That said – not all Uighurs and Tibetans are separatists… So they make use of all the incentives available to them (majority of Tibetans in China don’t even live in Tibet now) – which if you listened to the podcast – ironically done by an Australian – you would understand. That podcast is not based on opinion – but actual data.

  140. @lysias

    One can learn to spell in English by reading. One can read English after learning 26 letters and a few variations of the sounds they make. That’s it!

    For Chinese, it’s a grueling task to learn the 3,000 or more up-to-20-squiggly-line-filled characters needed to read anything serious. It’s not even a close comparison. English is much easier to get started in.

    OTOH I think that’s, in the short run and maybe even the long run (genetically) what gives Chinese people such great powers of memorization.

  141. @showmethereal

    Ha! You tried to explain, but your “right type of whites” bullshit didn’t really take.. with anyone. I’ve never even heard that expression. Is that something you made up just now? Americans hated the Soviet Union (and mistakenly, lots of innocent people caught up in it) because it was a Communist hell, trying to make the rest of the world into the same. Now that the Cold War has been over for 30 years, the only people hating on the Russians are the Neocons and D-party people that you get your talking points from.

    If you don’t know a damn thing about the racial history of the US, why don’t you quite writing about it? I’m sure you have topics in mind that you DO know about. At least D.B.Cooper who doesn’t know his handle, and D. Dan are a bit open-minded (D. Dan even being a Ron Paul style freedom-lover … somehow). You are a commenter whom I’m about to write off as another Godfree Roberts style worthless Commie.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  142. @Achmed E. Newman

    Seems I know more US history than you. There was always a hierarchy. Anglo Saxons on top. Nordics after…. Southern Europeans were looked down on and Eastern Europeans even more. That is the thing about records – people with brains can access them. Quotas were wanted and debated against Italians and other sotherners and foremost against eastern Europeans. Russia is the furthest East you can go in Europe. I am still trying to figure out why the Irish were disdained so much though. The idea of the US as some cornicopia – utopia that was ruined by blacks is a fake narrative. There was always violence in major cities. You might not want to believe it – but street gangs were not created by blacks. Neither were “gang colors”. And blacks were not the outlaws of the wild west either.

    It has little to do with communism. Russians were nevef much liked by “Americans” and Chinese had an Exclusion Act before communism existed. Learn facts.

    I already said communism doesnt work but you label me a commie..??? Your critical thinking is lacking. But guess what – I dont need your approval. I came with historical fact and you give neocon white separtists/supremacists opinion. People like you dont frighten me one bit. And no – I am not “open minded” by those who claim racial superiority. I fear God – not man – nor silly political and social labels.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  143. @Showmethereal

    First paragraph – complete BS. Do you mean that groups of immigrants from these places were looked down upon when they’d stick together and not assimilate? Sure, but that lasted only as long as it was until they DID assimilate, meaning fairly soon after the 40-odd year immigration pause starting in the early ’20s (it got curtailed a few years before Silent Cal signed the 1924 immigration bill).

    After that America was pretty unified, in some ways even through the cultural upheavals of the 1960’s. There were riots, rocks thrown, buildings taken over, arrests of thousands and thousands, million-people gatherings (or damn near!). Throughout all that, the white American people, and most black people (the ones that weren’t out for full destruction) considered each other just plain Americans, without any hyphens and fucked-up pronouns.

    It was the black riots of the late 1960s and early 1970s that changed the racial situation for the worse. White people moved out of inner cities for fear of businesses being burned down, kids getting beat up, and worse. That all changed the country for the worse.

    As to the gangs of old, the Italians, Irish, and Jews had them, and it’s a shame that that first group was the start of what is called “organized crime” in America. It’d be nice if there had been neither that, nor an FBI to fight it. None of those groups had young men who spent their days harassing white people for a living and a hobby, though. The inner cities were safe places to live until the middle of the 1960s. Who were these white people who moved out to the ‘burbs, after all? Polish in Chicago, Jews, Italians, Irish in NYC, and so on. Your theory is garbage.

    Yes, the Oriental people were a different story when it comes to immigration. The Chinese Exclusion Act was made to correct the mistake of going for cheap labor, and making near-slaves do the jobs that the railroads didn’t want to pay good wages for. Geee, I hope we don’t repeat that mistake… BTW, I like the Oriental people, and get along well, but any country is better off not having LARGE groups of foreigners come in waves.

    OK, and I’m sorry I called you a Commie – I do remember now where you said that it doesn’t work.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  144. @Achmed E. Newman

    First paragraph. Again historical documents are there as are newspaper clippings. Every ill was blamed on newcomers (who were white and non anglo saxon).

    Again Newspaper archives are available. In the early 1900’s you can find press clippings in major cities of innocent people being caught in crossfires or murdered in robberies. The perpetrators were not black.
    What happened in the 60’s is suburbanization (which was no doubt social engineering) took the middle class out of the city and segregated them in the burbs. The factories that employed those without college education left the cities as well.. Voila — crime shoots up heavily. Its not rocket science. If there were no blacks – crime still goes up by the poor left behind…. Except the job and housing market was VERY discriminatory.
    Crime (streetmas opposed to white collar) has to do with income. Please show me where blacks who are middle class either in cities or suburbs commit more crimes than their white counterparts of similar incomes. Same with the wealthy. Do wealthy blacks commit robberies and attack whites and shoot up golf courses..??? Nope.

    Of course communism doesnt work. Well i could never be one since I believe in God foremost… But that has little to do with economics. Government quotas all tbroughout an economy never work. Compensation of different individuals at the same level regardless of talent or work ethic etc was a recipe for disaster. That could never work either. The Soviets collapsed because of it. The communist leaders in China and then followed by Vietnam realized they needed capitalism to accomplish their goals of becoming socialists. Socialism does work in countries like Norway and Denmark because they have high per capita incomes and fairly even population. It cant work in a country with only a few wealthy – very small middle class – and a lot of poor. Things are more complex than just throwing labels. In some ways Canada and Germany are more socialist than China is right now. Political and economic systems are not the same.
    Why has Cuba persisted with holding on to communism when it doesnt work?? I have no clue – but its nit my business to tell them to change it. I dont believe in using sanctions that cause poor people to suffer more but never solves the problem. I dont believe in unprovoked military intervention except in cases of genocide (real ones – not imaginary ones). It was wrong for the Soviets to try to expand – just like it was wrong cor the Nazis – just like European colonialism and US invasion of Iraq were. The world is a complicated place. And there are times when war is unavoidable as well. There are some who do not like peace…. And at that time it is a duty of a nation to defend itself. And i dont mean provoking another nation until they finally do something to justify attacking them. That is dishonest… And then “reaping and sowing” comes into play.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  145. @Showmethereal

    I’m glad we are mostly in agreement with regard to your 2nd paragraph, though, no Socialism, in just the medium run, is dysgenic and a promoter of irresponsibility in the population. Even in the Scandinavian countries, before their deluges of “refugees”, it was not going to work by the 3rd generation. As for the military intervention by the US, well, I can read the Constitution and it doesn’t allow any of it. I’m on the same page with Ron Paul, who you can read here on unz, BTW.

    Now, this black problem is just getting damn tedious to explain. I should be patient though, because even as someone who lives here, 20 years ago I may have written what you have been writing. I really wondered why people wanted those big McMansions in the burbs – mostly EX-urbs (way out there, nowadays). As a single guy without children back then, I liked living in the city type neighborhoods, or rural, one or the other, but not these ‘burbs with their lack of ability to walk to places, lack of character, and nothing but Applebees and Circuit City around, if you do walk anywhere.

    It started to dawn on me that people were not stupid. Parents, of which I became one, know that the cities are two dangerous. That is black parents too, but they bring the trash with them (can’t always get away from family and hangers-on). White Americans pay a big price, between stressful, time-wasting commutes, paying for those monstrosities of houses that they’ve got out there, etc. in order to have their kids go to decent schools – meaning decent kids, meaning non-black and not a preponderance of Hispanics either (they are not nearly as much of a danger but change the culture and aren’t the bright ones you want your kids to learn from).

    Crime 100 years ago in the cities was NOTHING like what you’ve had since the riot times over 50 years back. Whites got the hell out, then tax revenue went down the shitter, as black people as a whole do not keep up property well, they don’t have as good paying jobs* Why don’t you go look up some numbers of violent crime 100 years ago vs. now in the cities. Yes, Al Capone’s men in Chicago might have killed a few dozen in the cross-fire, but compare that to 500 yearly. (I was guessing that, but it was a damn good guess – the HeyJackass site lists 510 homicides in that city in ’19.) Baltimore is hellacious, as is Atlanta, and anywhere you have lots of black people downtown.

    Oh, wait, Portland, Oregon does not have so many. Hey, guess what? It’s a pretty safe city. White people haven’t all moved out to its burbs, … yet.

    On your discriminatory housing and jobs thing, you are spouting garbage again, and that’s something that I never was naive about BECAUSE I LIVE HERE. If black people were good hires, and good tenants then people would hire and rent to them more. In general, they are definitely a worse bet than white people. Again, please don’t spout crap from the Lyin’ Press or your Big-Ed textbook here. I LIVE HERE.


    * Your black middle class is in large part workers in governments of all sorts. Take that away, and the black middle class will be cut down to well under 1/2 what you’ve got now.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  146. @Achmed E. Newman

    I wont even bother going back and forth… You simply have a hatred of blacks – which is quite evident. Newsflash for you though… Its not just government jobs anymore. A fair amount of blacks who are US born made it to college and are in the private sector. A larger percentage of migrant blacks from the Caribbean and Africa make it to the middle class if not in the 1st then by the 2nd generation. They dont live in the slums of Baltimore nor Chicago. I know you cant show me stats that shwo they commit crimes more than white – so I wont bother..
    In any event – The reason why blacks were so dependent on government jobs before was because white men like yourself who controlled all the capital – discriminated against them in education and employment. Kind of like how the US gov wants to stifle China. Instead of skin color they talk about political system. But then again the brilliant (sarcasm) of the Wall Stree Journal just recycled an old racist trope about Chinese being the “sick man of Asia”from the old “yellow peril” days. China promptly booted out their journalists and the WSJ claims that is censorship. All I can do is shake my head.
    It is like listening to white men like you rant about how evil blacks are and then you complain blacks have a chip on their shoulder. These things defy sanity. But carry on..

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  147. I don’t hate blacks as much as I just don’t want to be around large groups of them. Plenty of decent black guys are around where I live, and we’re a friendly place where people still say hello. That doesn’t mean I’m gonna put a child in a 1/2 black middle school. That doesn’t mean I don’t know the history of my country.

    Yes, many Africans that come here are the brightest from where they come from and do OK, but they are a small proportion of black people in America. They, in fact, take lots of jobs that American-born black people used to work in, and Socialism has made it to where generations of black Americans don’t work for a living. Yes, that’s not a good way to go through life, with idle hands.

    You are completely full of shit about my being some BIG CAPITALIST that wants to put the poor man down. You sound fucking retarded about that bit. White people, especially men, are discriminated against in employment, advancement, and educational opportunities. If you don’t know that, go on-line and check on the opportunities or lack thereof, depending on your skin color. Why don’t you also come visit, and go to downtown Baltimore or Atlanta – stay a few weeks, then write me back.

    Yes, people who don’t agree with you and write down too much truth are the “haters”. That’s your argument of last resort. There’s no reason to go back and forth with that one – you’re right.

  148. @Showmethereal

    There are indeed people in the American government who want bad relations with China just the same as they want with Russia. They are called “Neocons” and they just want to wage war, that’s all. President Trump’s moves on tariffs are long-due, as America has had an unfair deal with trade with China since the MFN status in the mid-1990’s. There’s nothing wrong with standing up for one’s manufacturing, or what’s left of it.

    I have been in China almost a dozen times. If that’s where you live, maybe you have more to add here, but I have people in China to get information from. The Central Government there has been so stupid about trying to control information (especially via we-chat) that they’ve got lots of Chinese people worried unnecessarily (IMO) about this corona-virus

    “Yellow peril”??! How old are the things you read, buddy? I think that goes back a century. It’s more like a 40 year period of hard-core Communism that made the Chinese our enemy. The only people who think they are now are those same Neocon warmongers that want us to still see the Russians as the old Soviets under Stalin. They hope that people are still living in the past. It seems to have worked for you, anyway.

  149. Keoki says:

    Our version of “democracy” is so heartwarming. The Mafia runs everything significant, but every 4 years we get to pick their PR mouthpieces on their 3-party Monte. Or, imagine that we did.

  150. Keoki says:
    @d dan

    My perception is that the US’s biggest problem (#1, #2, and #3 combined) is that it doesn’t have a valuable export product now that works.

    Computers? 20 million people worked 30 years to build a machine where every OS upgrade amounts to a user lobotomy

    Weapons? The full list of word problems weapons solved so far in history: 1.)

    Banking? That’s just price gouging, where the banks’ skim is rechristened “profit”.

    Someone needs to invent something new and useful the world will desperately want and pay big bucks for. Like, yesterday

  151. @showmethereal

    I don’t disagree with what you’ve said. I was drawing the distinction between the way the US views the rest of the world – and the way the double helix of China/Russia does – two totally different paradigms.

    With respect to your assertion:

    “The SCO was formed because of the war in Afghanistan and both knew jihadists would begin to destabilize Central Asia”

    that wasn’t the only reason.

    Having observed the wave of regime change operations (labeled “color revolutions” & “Arab Spring”) conducted by the US-NATO while Russia, under (the asset) Yelstin was pretty much a colony of the US (1991-99), the Russian & Chinese leaderships sussed that unless they started working in synergy each of their countries would be ‘picked off’ next.

    Subsequent US invasions & occupations, regime change operations, sanctions, embargoes, bombing campaigns, targeted assassinations, etc, etc in this last decade (2010-19) have only served to demonstrate the wisdom of their joint strategy.


    • Agree: showmethereal
  152. @Achmed E. Newman

    USA has about 10 years remaining until it craters–for good. An economy of despair run by a cabal of jackals.

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