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Yesterday, National Justice Editor-in-Chief Eric Striker and Mike Enoch of TheRightStuff.biz debated Marxist journalist Caleb Maupin and anarchist Brenton Lengel.

(Republished from National Justice by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Alt Right, American Left, Antifa 
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  1. The communist apparently doesn’t notice how he was proving the nationalist case with his example of 1930s labor organizing (even if we assume his version of events was completely accurate). It was a self-BTFO and he was too dumb to see it! The fact that he had to go back to a time when there was almost zero immigration in order to point to successful worker organizing is exactly what we would predict.

    In contrast, the “We’re just going to invite the whole world and then form a huge labor union” meme…well, it simply hasn’t happened. Is there an Antifa/radlib cope for this? I’ve never seen anyone address it. (To say nothing of the strategy which they seem to be pursuing now: invite the whole world, lecture the working class on their white privilege, explaining why men and women aren’t real, and then forming a labor union).

    Here’s a question that could have been asked to these radlibs: “What do you think those black and white workers would have thought about bringing in millions of Asian and Hispanics? On the other hand, what do you think employers/capitalists would have thought about it?”.

    ‘Racism is a tool to divide the working class’. No, RACE is a tool used to divide the working class. Simple proof of this: do capitalists promote racism and oppose immigration? Or do they censor and defame ‘racism’ while wholeheartedly endorsing an unending stream of immigration?

    • Agree: Digital Samizdat
  2. Here is a tip for nationalists: call yourselves indigenous europeans and bring up that Marx was for colonialism. Say that nationalism is historically the result of democratic overthrow of imperialists.

    • Agree: utu
  3. What a horrible debate. Discussing TP/nazbolism against a fat buddhist anarchist should be as easy as one two three, instead the ranch dressing got to Mike’s brain and he kept insisting on talking about nazi Germany’s economic accomplishments, that’s an argument winner right there! That’s one that will earn you lots of sympathy points at the dinner table.
    The weaboo got points over race and gender denial, with extremely basic arguments that after 30 years should have an extremely easy snap of the fingers counter-argument. But not for our two geniuses, that basically admitted they’re putting their life on the line for social constructs and begged to veer the discussion towards the total unemployement rate of nazi germany in 1932.
    One hill to die on, even then, when the weeb’s sidekick chimed in claiming they got infinite money for social programs by sacrificing jews in ominous rituals, they had no answer besides what is basically a not so subtle “serves them right”.

    Debate ends with the antifa side seeming more honest and even philanthropic to a degree, while the “third positionists” came off as dumb. Confirming all the stereotypes about the alt right being dumb white guys angry at minorities for no reason.
    Maybe reading something aside of wignat forums would have helped.
    Maybe losing some weights would have helped.
    What a disappointment. Go commit a Heimbach.

    • Replies: @Smith
  4. Tom Verso says:

    I was really excited when I saw the title of the ‘debate’. I thought it would be interesting and informative. The first half hour met that criterion, but I stopped listening at that point, when the yelling and screaming started.

    From the first half hour, I would just note the absolute absurdity of arguing against nationalism and ethnic centered political ideology by positing Communist China as a paradigm of anti-nationalism and anti-ethnicity.

    Really? China is not a nationalist centered country with a virtually (literally?) homogeneous DNA ethnic population?

    What does it mean to say: I’m against nationalism, and I admire China?

    What does it mean to say: I’m against a homogenous ethnic society, and I admire China?

    The contradictions are blatant!

    The success China is a perfect argument for a nationalist ethnic center society!

    • Agree: Tusk
  5. Smith says:

    The anarchist is a joke, as always.

    What gets me is that “old-skool” leftist like Caleb is also literally anti-white (white is a negative identity!). Nobody on Earth except these american leftists think so, and quite frankly, that’s a good thing because american race-blind idealism is a dying breed.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  6. Smith says:
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    Hooo boy, lets smack this open.

    1. The social construct part, Striker uses the argument even IF something is a social construct, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter. Classes are social constructs, laws are social constructs, SOCIETY is a social construct, the funny thing about humanity is that we can kill for what we believe in, and people die for social constructs every days. And this is why saying something being a social construct means nothing.

    2. It is undeniable that National Socialist Germany revives its economy compared to Weimar, their economic policy works, fiat currency + social programs work, investment in infrastructure works. Just ask the Soviet and the Dengists. Nowadays with digital money, money can indeed be infinite, inflation is a meme (inflation just means lack of price regulation/control).

    3. The burning of jews, never mind that it’s fake, it’s funny you believe that the national socialists can make money out of from burning jews, I guess jews are some kind of highly efficient fuels? Maybe that’s why people want to burn them so much.

    Then again, you might be a retard if you think the two tomato heads antifa come out of honest in this. They can’t even explain why whites can’t collectively organize, like everyone else.

  7. Two neo-nazis bickering with one retard and one dork.

    Totally pathetic.

  8. Awful “debate” moderator. Should have went with two people, E Striker and Caleb Maupin would have made a better talk. Brenton seems like a moron who gets caught up in the tranny obsession. Enoch is a d-bag, and certainly looks like a Jew himself. Striker is tolerable as is Caleb. I’ve known of Caleb for a while, he seems like a very knowledgeable person, I think he’s frustrated because of all the talking over one another. Two too many people.

    Caleb makes a good point that I have pointed out as well, the racial supremacy that the alt-right loves to peddle and make the topic of every discussion is no different than Neocon ideology, as well as the Jewish/Zionist right wing. The same ideology of the manifest destiny folks, that basically gives legitimacy to capitalism and imperialism. I’m (insert race) I’m smarter and better armed so I have the right to kill, enslave you and steal all your shit. Thats the same ideology that brought the African slaves here to begin with, so the alt-right puts themselves in a corner with that one…

    I know, you can go back and forth all day by saying so and so commie was mean too, blah blah blah. Most of the time, in almost all cases the mean commies were fighting off foreign or foreign backed rich assholes who were already killing and stealing from their people.

    Its endless, no one is 100% right, never will be. Theres still lots we don’t know about the World wars. Don’t care how many books you’ve read, most the real details were destroyed before anyone could see them, probably many people murdered to keep the details secret. Like 9/11 or JFK we will never know all the details because all the juicy stuff was destroyed the moment after.

    I think both sides have winning views, but with the alt-right the racial supremacy and glorifying Hitler is a losing argument to make with most of society. The left guys lose with the tranny and open border stuff, hard to win by glorifying Stalin as well. Not that Hitler and Stalin are guilty of all the things they are accused of, but most of society is just so brainwashed by propaganda that its an automatic turn off.

    That Brenton dude knows nothing about Marx and his views on an armed working class shows how little he knows. Direct quote from Marx that is basic knowledge:

    “Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary” Karl Marx

    This is the ONLY reason US hasn’t already destroyed Venezuela and DPRK, the working class is well trained and armed. Bolivia should have done the same.

    On the topic of who does global capitalism support, fascism or communism, they’ve supported both at times. I think they are most comfortable with fascism since both share the same ideology. Recent history proves this. Ukraine and Bolivia just recently. I think the US was trying to play both sides in WW2, have Germany and Russia destroy each other. It worked well as far as I can tell, US came out on top.

    I also think that the fact the CIA and European Intel agencies hired most of the Nazis after and used their experience to continue the war on commies, proves this beyond a doubt. Vietnam war against commies. Go research Operation Gladio, Operation Condor, Paperclip, Gehlan Organization, Klaus Barbie and The Cocaine Coup for further proof. These are just the details that are known, I’m sure the connections are much deeper and go back much earlier than is known.

    Then there was the Ukraine fascists/Nazis that were seen in Hong Kong taking pictures with the protesters there recently. Who do you think was behind all that? NED/CIA of course.

    There is always the fact that US on and off supports groups like PKK/Kurds, MKO/Iran, ISIS Al Qaeda but also classify the as terrorists. So this sort of proves that the US can play both sides when it is an advantage to their geopolitical/economic interests. I honestly don’t know much about PKK or MKO other than MKO is a cult like group, doesn’t appear that their main goal is that of most commies. Its a clusterfuck sometimes.

    Some interesting stuff on European fascist groups and Bolivia:

    Salvini thanks Trump for taking out Soleimani

    https://www.ansa.it/english/news/2020/01/03/salvini-thanks-trump-for-taking-out-soleimani_61a49358-86be-444e-8e47-5297cc99d331.html

    MKO bankrolled foundation of Spanish far-right Vox Party

    https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/01/31/617561/MKO-bankroll-Spain-VOX

    From Pétain to Macron, from the Resistance to the Yellow Vests…: 1944-1945, France’s Fake Purge of “The Collaborators”

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/1944-1945-france-fake-purge-collaborators/5703187

    Hitler’s Shadow Reaches toward Today

    https://consortiumnews.com/2013/06/06/hitlers-shadow-reaches-toward-today/

    The Butcher of Bolivia

    http://www.bolivianexpress.org/blog/posts/the-butcher-of-bolivia

    Bolivia coup led by Christian fascist paramilitary leader and millionaire – with foreign support

    https://thegrayzone.com/2019/11/11/bolivia-coup-fascist-foreign-support-fernando-camacho/

    • Replies: @Tusk
    , @Smith
    , @Commentator Mike
  9. Tusk says:
    @redmudhooch

    The same ideology of the manifest destiny folks, that basically gives legitimacy to capitalism and imperialism. I’m (insert race) I’m smarter and better armed so I have the right to kill, enslave you and steal all your shit

    Tell that to non-White migrants who think it’s their God-given right to move to Western countries, or advocate for separate legal protections and benefits, or groups who argue that one race needs to pay reparations to another.

    A large portion of the “alt-right” (the non-Feds) want to be left alone and advocates for racial separatism and races being under their own control and not conglomerate multi-culturalism. In fact this is explicitely what Greg Johnson at Counter Currents argues for. White Nationalists do not advocate for “enslaving” or “stealing” from non-Whites, they simply want them to return to their countries and stop draining their resources.

    There is only one (1) ideology that promotes a master race (that they admit) and the belief that the entire world should be governed under this one race’s rule, the race that has the right to special protections and cannot be criticised, this race is known as Jews and the ideology is known as Judaism.

    • Replies: @Pop Warner
  10. Smith says:
    @redmudhooch

    Is China the Israel of Chinese?

    Is Japan the Israel of Japanese?

    What about Egypt? Is it the Israel of Egyptian?

    Is it “racial supremacy” if people want to keep their countries their?

    The Palestinian also wants an Israel for Palestinian too, and yes, they reject the two states solution.

    Israel is not an argument against ethnostate. Caleb and his anti-white ilk never think this through.

  11. @redmudhooch

    I got a very bad impression of Caleb. He kept rolling his eyes, acting petulant and as if the others were below his level, and kept endlessly asking for the debate to stop and saying that it was a waste of his time. So why was he there? I would have assumed it would have been to try to convert some of the viewers to his point of view. So by saying that it was a waste of his time and that he wanted out, he was acknowledging defeat. At least the anarchist seemed to be a willing and enthusiastic participant although very emotional. And sure bringing up trannies and gender issues was ridiculous. I don’t necessarily agree with all that Mike said, but I like how he presents his arguments, in earnest, without condescension and without emoting. But all these are marginal views of both the left and the right, and I don’t know if they’ll ever be popular in the mainstream.

    I would like to see a black nationalist thrown in the mix, and maybe a militant Muslim, and even a Zionist Jew, but it may be difficult to moderate too many participants.

    Neither Mike nor Eric support imperialism or colonialism. What happened in the past happened. It wasn’t supremacist ideology that led to colonialism and imperialism, it was just pure greed and theft of resources. Rather, the supremacist ideology was a product of it, or an excuse, usually something espoused by the do-gooder missionaries out to convert, educate and culturally raise the primitives. The capitalists just wanted to rob and couldn’t care less that those living on the lands they wanted were barbarians or not. The Indians, Chinese, Arabs, Aztecs, Mayas, Incas all had their own civilisations, although with some practices that may have seemed barbaric to whites, and vice versa, but if the colonists felt they were superior, that’s no different from anyone else. I’m sure some African tribesmen felt superior too when they managed to get some white explorer thrown into the cooking pot.

  12. @Smith

    1. And it’s a failed argument because without the bioessentialism of genetics, it’s one construct that he wants people to rally around over another. He admits of being a leftist, and instead of wanting to unify over class to promote class interests, he wants to unify along this other social construct, that even happens to include class enemies, to promote the same class interests (supposedly).

    2. You can defend ethnic socialism without turning every conversation into an autistic historical analysis of a 1930’s regime, regardless of how noble and righteous you assume it to be. Nobody cares, it’s a losing battle, and the only people who are going to listen are going to be those who already like the big H in some way. Normal people are trained from birth to associate all European self coordination with the NSDAP, all they’re going to get out of this is that Europeans that want to self coordinate really like the NSDAP, which was evil.

    3. It was hyperbole, you dolt. No amount of jewish wealth expropriation can fund social programs of that scale. The point is that even such a dumb claim is something the mike and striker combo couldn’t refute and instead doubled down on.

    You’re around 80-100 IQ points, I understand, it’s genetic. You can’t hold views and not watch debates as they were team sports, where your team can’t ever lose anything because you like them and they believe the right things, which are obviously true, and therefore they always win because they said the things you agree with, while the other side said things you didn’t like so they lost.

    • Replies: @Smith
  13. Smith says:
    @Autists Anonymous Rehab Camp Fugitive

    1. Why is it a failed argument? Assuming you are indeed a “rightist”, why can’t you rally over social constructs? If the leftists can rally over muh class, and the “rightists” can rally over muh economy, why can’t people rally over their own race? You know like every races have done in history?

    2. You can and you should because Hitler’s economy works, it’s what Japan did, it’s what Deng China did, it’s what Singapore did, the fact YOU don’t like it listening it doesn’t make it not true, I will drill you over your head again and again, no matter how you dislike it. And lo and behold, the two antifa can’t even make a counter-argument to it.

    3. The anarchist in the debate uses that very argument, he seriously think the germans got rich by oppressing “minority”, and Mike & Strike do not accept nor double down on that absurd statement, they just weren’t allowed to retort due to the moderator.

    And man, no, I have debated with plenty of leftists before, and I have even LARPed as leftists to debate with rightists. The fact remains that your claims are nonsensical and should be pointed out.

  14. He admits of being a leftist, and instead of wanting to unify over class to promote class interests, he wants to unify along this other social construct, that even happens to include class enemies, to promote the same class interests (supposedly).

    He is part of globalist left which still holds onto the incredibly flimsy theory that Western (read White) countries are holding back global economic unity. In his mind rallying behind a unifying social construct is the greater struggle and shortest path to progress.

    But the problem is that this theory is easily disprovable as it assumes culture is not tied to race and any random country can become first world. If we look at the history of Africa we see that even at the end of WW2 globalist egalitarians made predictions for post-colonial countries that simply didn’t come true. These types of unfounded egalitarian predictions have been repeated numerous times and egalitarians have always depicted Africa on the cusp of modern development.

    At the end of the day it really breaks down to:
    1. Leftists that know they are lying about race and view this as the better strategy.
    2. Leftists that are naive and believe globalist leftist theory (Whites are holding everyone back).

    This leads to the type of thinking seen in the video. Once you pick apart the race issue it leads to questions like why would a pro-labor group want to import third worlders to support labor? It makes no sense, especially when all evidence suggest that those third worlders will just depress wages and bring their culture with them.

    I have debated leftists numerous times and have come to the conclusion that it isn’t worth it. They either know they are lying about race or naive to where it is like debating children. It makes more sense to project your point of view and let the globalists simply deal with it. They aren’t interested in serious debate in the first place.

    • Replies: @Smith
  15. @Smith

    Nobody on Earth except these american leftists think so, and quite frankly, that’s a good thing because american race-blind idealism is a dying breed.

    It is definitely on the downslope.

    The colleges are completely dedicated to race blind idealism and yet their top graduates completely lack confidence on anything even remotely connected to race. Just watch how neurotic and desperate leftists act in any debate. If you go back and look at older debates before the internet you can see that they had a lot more confidence.

    Social science graduates can have PhDs and yet the best they can do is play semantic games or try to defame the competition.

    Very few seem able to think outside of race in the current prism created by the social sciences. Leftists basically believe that if we don’t lie about race and denigrate Whites then another Hitler will appear. They can’t seem to conceive of a labor movement that is nationalist and simply not concerned with race.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  16. “Isms”are mostly distractions. There is a concrete problem in history, the JQ, which works itself out through the coalition of ‘victims’ necessary to the Democratic Party, the Mideast wars, the anti-nationalist strong-arm tactics, animosity or indifference to the white working class, sexual radicalism, hostility to Christianity, and the insistence on finding racism everywhere. Solve the JQ and the other problems vanish into air.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  17. @jack daniels

    Mind you, when I say to “solve” the JQ I am not advocating persecution, but rather a frank acknowledgement of the issues, leading to productive changes in the ‘national conversation’ on a variety of subjects..

  18. @John Johnson

    “…if we don’t lie about race and denigrate Whites then another Hitler will appear. ”

    That’s it in a nutshell. It would be helpful to confront them on this point, i.e. say “so your position is that we have to lie about race and sex and money lest another Hitler appear.” If they deny it then ask them whether various obviously true statements are true or false pertaining to race, sex, and money. It will be fun to watch them trip over their feet.

  19. Smith says:
    @John Johnson

    It is always worth it to debate leftists to show how ridiculous they are, like with “race isn’t real but tranny is” anarchist and coomienism.

    You will have them making a total joke of themselves, or constantly on the retreat (like Caleb and his “waste of time” excuse).

  20. @Tusk

    Any kind of racial nationalism, separatism, or even advocacy for whites is considered white supremacy. There’s no point talking to people who play with that slur

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