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The Khashoggi Murder -- Worse Than a Crime, a Mistake
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After watching the Saudis behead and even reportedly crucify critics and opponents for decades, suddenly Washington’s great and good are outraged by a single murder.

The victim was a Saudi columnist from that nation’s elite who was noted for his moderate, cautious views, who was also linked to the former Saudi intelligence chief, Turki al-Faisal.

But even gentle criticism of the royal government, and particularly its strongman, crown prince Mohammed bin Salman (aka MBS), caused Khashoggi to be murdered and cut up into pieces in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, to where he was lured last week and from whence he never emerged alive. Turkish intelligence secretly monitoring the Saudi consulate picked up the gruesome details as Khashoggi’s fingers were reportedly cut off, followed by his head.

Khashoggi wrote for numerous papers, including The Washington Post. He had become a pesky journalist who irked the headstrong Saudi crown prince who likely cried, like England’s King Henry II, ‘will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?’

As a former pesky journalist for newspapers in Qatar and Dubai, and Turkey, I am appalled by this crime. Crown Prince Mohammed has been arresting, detaining, shaking down and intimidating his subjects, all applauded by Trump and his son-in-law Jared Kushner who is deep in bed with the moneybags Saudis.

I’m surprised that the Saudis didn’t ask the Israelis, who are very good at assassination and kidnapping, to go after Khashoggi.

The uproar in Washington and the tame US media contrasted to their silence regarding the fate of other journalists killed or held in prison in Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, both US client states. Al-Jazeera’s Cairo correspondent Mahmoud Hussein has been held in prison for two years without charge because he dared write about Egypt’s former democratic government that was overthrown by a coup mounted by Saudi Arabia, the Gulf Emirates and Israel.

The US has been kidnapping, torturing and ‘disappearing’ alleged enemies ever since 9/11.

Back to the Saudis. In the face of their criminal behavior, President Donald Trump sought to wriggle away from the scandal by claiming that the murder might have been done by ‘rogue’ Saudi agents, a claim quickly echoed by the Saudis. But even the usual lap dog Republicans in the US Congress refused to swallow this baloney, calling for sanctions on Saudi Arabia.

Clearly, even the US Congress and media was growing nervous over Saudi Arabia’s genocidal war in Yemen that has killed over 10,000 civilians and provoked widespread famine and disease – all done with US and British weapons, advisors and intelligence support.

Not so fast, retorted Trump, whose business empire greatly benefitted from Saudi and Gulf cash. The Saudis have arms orders for $110 billion in the hopper and, claimed Trump, $400 billion in commercial orders pending. We can’t risk Riyadh cancelling this bonanza, said Trump. Just a week earlier, Trump had sneered that the Saudis could not defend themselves and had to rely on US protection.

Unstated by Trump was the tacit threat that the Saudis might cash in some of their trove of US Treasury bills. How many US legislators and journalists are on the Saudi payroll remains a deep, dark mystery.

Equally important, the Saudis and Emiratis are now closely allied to Israel’s far right government. Israel has been a door-opener for the Saudis and Gulf Emirates in Washington’s political circles. The Israel lobby is riding to the Saudi’s defense.

Meanwhile, we will observe the disgusting spectacle of the Trump administration trying to cover up this crime and protect its thuggish allies in Saudi Arabia while trying to provoke war with Iran.

Americans, who have been gulled by a multi-million-dollar PR blitz over the modernized ‘new’ Saudi Arabia, complete with a handful of female drivers and commercials about ‘empowered women,’ will begin to see what a corrupt, brutal regime they have so long and unquestionably supported.

The question will remain: who in the Saudi leadership was stupid enough to approve the murder of Khashoggi? Could this crime mark the beginning of the downfall of the medieval Saudi regime?

As the wise and cynical Tallyrand said about the murder of the young Duc d’Enghien, ‘worse than a crime, it was a mistake.’

(Republished from by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Media, Khashoggi, Saudi Arabia 
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  1. Alistair says:

    The overplayed drama of Mr. Khashoggi assassination is going to be used by the American Oil Cartel to control the Saudis Oil output.

    it’s quite unusual to see such unanimous anti-Saudi reactions from the American political class for the assassination of Mr. Khashoggi – who was just a part-time journalist living in U.S – he was not even an American citizen, so, it’s quite unusual because the same political class remained muted about the Saudis involvement with ISIS, the bombing and starvation of civilians in Yemen and destruction of Syria, and of course the Saudis involvement in 9/11 terrorist attack in which 3000 American citizens have perished in New York, in the heart of America.

    So, we must be a bit skeptical about the motive of the American Political Class, as this again could be just about the OIL Business, but this time around the objective is to help the American Oil producers as opposed to Oil consumers – with 13.8% of the global daily Oil production, the US has lately become the world top producer of Crude Oil, albeit, an expensive Oil which is extracted by Fracking method that requires high Oil price above $70 to remain competitive in the global Oil market – by simultaneously sanctioning Iran, Venezuela, and the potential sanction of Saudi Arabia from exporting its Oil, the Trump Administration not only reduces the Global Oil supply which will certainly lead to the rise of Oil price, but also it lowers demand for the US Dollar-Greenback in the global oil market which could lead to subtle but steady devaluation of the US dollar. And perhaps that’s what Trump Administration was really aiming for all along; a significant decline of the US Dollar Index and the rise of price of Oil which certainly pleases the American Oil Cartel, though at the expense of Iran, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela – all of which are under some form of U.S sanctions.

    However gruesome, Mr. Khashoggi’s assassination is going to be used by the Trump Administration to help the American Oil Cartel by controlling the Saudi Oil output, hence, to raise the price of Oil and to lower demand for US dollar which is the currency of the global Oil trade.

  2. cynic says:

    Perhaps this was not a mistake, not sloppiness, not incompetence and has nothing to do with oil, America or journalism. Perhaps it was all a deliberate setting. Could it not be that the journalist was not the message, but merely the media on which a message for someone else was inscribed in his blood?

    The Sultan and The Prince are at daggers drawn. The Sultan has recently challenged the House of Saud by claiming their title of Guardian of the Holy Places of Islam.

    Perhaps the casual almost public murder and dismemberment of a minor critic of The Prince in the capital of The Sultan is intended as warning to The Sultan.

  3. Anon[212] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Some truly funny stuff.

    Seventy Years of the New York Times Describing Saudi Royals as Reformers

  4. Anonymous [AKA "Harris Chandler"] says:

    The west has allowed Saudi Arabia too get too strong and too influential. It should never have been allowed to grow beyond the status of colony. Now it has made alliances with Israel and between them the tail wags the dog. Trump et al answers to them. He won’t lift a finger to avenge the death of this man. As for one branch of the Saudi royal family being overthrown, they will simply be replaced with another of its 15,000 or so members who might be a little less into crucifixion but maybe a little bit more into disembowelling and breaking on the wheel.

  5. MrTuvok says:

    The seemingly well-connected news outlet Voltairenet claims that there has been a plot against MbS and that Khashoggi was involved in it.

    This seems to explain the motive to kill him. A few mildly critical articles by Khashoggi’s pen scarcely seem to be sufficient for such a high-profile murder, even if we take into account that MbS appears to be impulsive and little capable of thinking ahead.

  6. DB Cooper says:

    When Khashoggi disappeared the first thing that comes to my mind was the guy got raptured. Funny no one in the media consider this possibility.

  7. It was not Talleyrand who said “pire qu’une crime …” but rather Boulay de la Meurthe. But then the Queen never said “Let them eat cake” either.

    Pardon my hint at historical accuracy, please.

  8. All the Middle East wars America has fought in the last 30 years have been a senseless waste of lives and money. Enough of this useless imperialism under the fig leaf of democracy. I vote for naked aggression. Let’s invade Saudi Arabia’s Eastern Province — where all the oil is — and annex it as America’s 51st state. The Arabs can return to what they do best — herding camels.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Alden
    , @Dale
  9. FKA Max says:

    Very insightful video:

    Duplicitous Khashoggi Picked the Wrong Prince


    Paul Krugman
    ‏Verified account @paulkrugman

    Lots of terrible stuff out there, but this still stands out. Remember the Eleventh Commandment: “Thou shalt excuse stuff like killing and bearing false witness if arms sales are at stake.”

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Miro23
  10. Cato says:

    First of all, when has the death of a journalist made any difference in the relations between countries? Why act like it should now?
    Second, Khashoggi was not simply a journalist — he was a member of the Saudi elite, an Intelligence officer, and an activist for the Muslim Brotherhood (the Die Welt article established that).
    Third, the real question is how this story came out, and why it has come out as it has (“journalist murdered by police state agents”). Turkey pushed this story out into the open. Apparently a calculation that the crown prince is losing ground, and an effort (perhaps assisted by bribes) to align the AK party with the crown prince’s enemies in Saudi.

  11. It fares a atrocial war on Yemen, shits on international laws and regulations, just like Israel, Why would they not murder a juorno entering their land?
    Now this juorno was a man revealing in practices done by head choppers, s o I will not cry much.
    It just shows these people are savages, all of them.
    What should be done ? You judge.

  12. anon[321] • Disclaimer says:

    It seems quite curious why MBS would go through such trouble to waste a guy whose only crime was writing a few low key disparaging articles about him that nobody read. Maybe there’s more to this story than meets the eye.

    I’ve read on Zerohedge that Khashoggi was on the verge of publishing an article about the Saudi’s and CIA’s involvement in 9/11, specifically about his former boss Turki al-Faisal, who ran Saudi intelligence for 23 years then abruptly resigned 10 days before 9/11 without giving any reason. The rumor was he knew about the attack as did CIA, but Saudis and CIA decided not to do anything to use it as pretext to start the “war on terror” and bring down Saddam Hussein. Personally I find that a little far fetched but you never know when it comes to the CIA.

  13. Alden says:

    The murder of d’Enghien had no effect on the French Revolution, other countries reactions to the revolution and the subsequent revolutionary and Napoleonic wars. In fact, most of the liberal pro French Revolution historians consider the execution as necessary and moral as the execution of other anti revolutionaries

    Koshoggi’s murder won’t make a bit of difference either once the blame Trump media blast blows over.

    The Turkish police appear to be doing a good job. They’ve arrested 18 people involved.

    At least the moralist pundits won’t be punditing and pontificating about Kavanaugh for a few days. Kashiggi’s not a reformer. He’s hard core Muslim Brotherhood

  14. Alden says:
    @FKA Max

    Please post videos with English subtitles. Whatever language that woman was speaking, it wasn’t English

  15. Alden says:

    Why should Trump
    avenge the death of one hard core extremist Muslim Brotherhood operator? Saudi has its government system. We have ours. There is no reason for us to interfere.

    • Agree: Liza
  16. utu says:

    Trump is making a mistake. The outrage is real regardless of how it was created. He must address it. Besides why not use this as extra leverage with Saudis. They have nowhere to go. Make them find some fall guys from Saudi family not the BS about the fist fight that went wrong and then increase the price of all the weapons they must buy by 10%.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  17. johnson says:

    who likely cried, like England’s King Henry II, ‘will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?’

    Yawn. This author is tediously hackneyed. And, it was ‘turbulent priest.’

  18. That the Saudi regime commits murders does not surprise me, but getting caught not just with murder, but also with torture, indeed an unbelievable stupidity.
    Why torture the man ?
    But what also baffles me is that the journalist wrote for Washpost, a friend of Israel.
    That Netanyahu and the Saudi regime cooperate to attack Iran, it is asserted by many, and it sems quite probable to me.
    A technical question, can indeed a smartwatch do what it is supposed to have done ?
    If so, then the torturers and murderers are even more stupid, I let the moral issue undiscussed, than one can imagine.
    Then there is the assertion, in cases like this one never knows what the facts are, that the journalist’s girl friend waited outside.
    Did he expect trouble ?
    Did he ask her to record the trouble ?
    Did not the consulate security see her ?
    A final remark, what now is the difference in cruelty between IS and the USA’s ally ?

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Herald
    , @Anne Frank
  19. @Fidelios Automata

    You seem never to have heard of Cordoba, Spain, where these Arabs built the, in the opinion of many, most impressive building in the world, where in 1980 the waterwheels for irrigation were still to be seen, and where, in the 11th century or so, the emir had, according to ancient historians, a library of 40.000 books.

  20. SafeNow says:

    I pardon and embrace your historical-accuracy correction. Please pardon my grammatical-accuracy correction. “From whence” in the article is wrong. “Whence” all by itself means “from where” — the “from” is already built-in. This is like hoi polloi — the word “the” is already built-in. Speaking of language, Trump should have used standard state departmentese by condemning the conduct “in the strongest possible terms.” You don’t anger the offender by actually using the terms.

  21. @Alistair

    History has its weird twists.
    Early in WWII FDR was reported that USA oil would be depleted in thirty years time.
    So FDR sent Harold L Ickes to Saudi Arabia,where at the end of 1944 the country was made the USA’s main oil supplier.
    FDR entertained the then Saud in early 1945 on the cruiser Quincy, laying in the Bitter Lakes near the Suez Canal.
    This Saud and his entourage had never seen a ship before, in any case had never been on board such a ship.

    In his last speech to Congress, seated, FDR did not follow what had been written for him, but remarked ‘that ten minutes with Saud taught him more about zionism than hundreds of letters of USA rabbi’s.
    These words do not seem to be in the official record, but one of the speech writers, Sherwood, quotes them in his book.
    Robert E. Sherwood, ‘Roosevelt und Hopkins’, 1950, Hamburg (Roosevelt and Hopkins, New York, 1948)
    If FDR also said to Congress that he would limit jewish migration to Palestine, do not now remember, but the intention existed.
    A few weeks later FDR died, Sherwood comments on on some curious aspects of FDR’s death, such as that the body was cremated in or near Warm Springs, and that the USA people were never informed that the coffin going from Warm Springs to Washington just contained an urn with ashes.

    At present the USA does not seem to need Saudi oil.
    If this causes the asserted cooperation between Saudi Arabia and Israel ?

  22. When was the last time evangelical party or any other “christian” spoke against apartheid of Israel in large and meaningful numbers?

  23. Alfred says:

    Now it has made alliances with Israel and between them the tail wags the dog

    The Saudi Royal family and the governments of Israel have always been in cahoots. They both despise and fear secular governments that are not under their own control in the Middle East. Witness the fear and dread of both of them of president Nasser in the 1960’s, for example.

  24. Lin says:

    The US establishment,’liberal’ or not, just fake an outcry to soften the image of 100’s of 1000’s of yemenis, iraqis, libyan.. war casualties they are wholly or partly responsible for. Khashoggi’s death is no more brutal than that of Gaddafi. What’s the big deal ?
    Whether Khashoggi is an islamist or not is very minor.
    (Sunni) Islam is basically a caravan of arab tribal or civilizational power and the house of Saud just rides this vehicle or caravan to siphon off the oil wealth.
    The house of Saud, said to be jewish in origin, have the option to migrate en mass to Israel or French Riviera, with their swiss/US/caribbean offshore accounts during time of crisis or after new forms of energy resource displace oil…

  25. Art says:

    Equally important, the Saudis and Emiratis are now closely allied to Israel’s far right government. Israel has been a door-opener for the Saudis and Gulf Emirates in Washington’s political circles. The Israel lobby is riding to the Saudi’s defense.

    The Israelis are defending Old Saudi (pre MBS) — not the New MBS/Kushner fix Palestine cabal. The last thing Isarel wants is a definded Israeli border recgonized by the world.

    The sycophant Israeli backing Senators in congress (Graham et al) are all backing Israel by condemning MBS and calling for his head.

    Think Peace — Art

  26. Miro23 says:
    @FKA Max

    Thanks for the excellent Real News Network interview with someone I hadn’t heard about (As’ad AbuKhalil) who has followed the career of Khashoggi for years.

    It seems that Khashoggi was lately different things to different people – one voice in English at the Washington Post following the Israeli line, and another in Arabic and the Arab media supporting the Palestinians and the Moslem Brotherhood.

    Over the long term he was a propagandist for the rule of the Saudi princes, and his problem seemed to be his too close connection to the wrong ones, while they were overthrown by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS). There’s the suggestion of a plot against MbS where he may have been involved.

    So why are the Israelis, their MSM and their AIPAC congressmen making such a big thing out of it? Isn’t MbS their friend? And why should they care about the assassination of a pro-Palestinian journalist?

    Maybe they’ve a better knowledge of the forces at play in Saudi Arabia, and concluded that MbS was too much of a risk (too isolated and independent – e.g. talking with the Chinese about a Petro/Yuan). Maybe they decided to Regime Change MbS in a usual Israeli/US Deep State operation with Khashoggi at the centre (the duplicitous sort of character that they favor) – with the outrage at MbS unexpectedly striking back. It was in fact MbS’ team of bodyguards who arrived in Istanbul. And it would account for the Deep State anger at having one of its chief conspirators murdered.

    The back story has to be that the US/Israel want control of both Saudi and Iranian oil priced in US Dollars and they’ll go with anyone who can give that outcome (currently not MbS). Or they invade Saudi Arabia Eastern Province on some pretext or other and just take the oil directly.

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
    , @ThreeCranes
  27. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    I’m surprised that the Saudis didn’t ask the Israelis, who are very good at assassination and kidnapping, to go after Khashoggi.

    They probably did, but Israel is gearing up to invade Gaza AGAIN, and that takes time and resources that they couldn’t afford to let go and do some free-lancing in the Murder Inc Department.

    But Blessed are the War Mongers or something, as that oh-so devout Christian, Pat Robertson, is against holding KSA accountable:

    Prominent evangelical leader on Khashoggi crisis: let’s not risk “$100 billion worth of arms sales”

    Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network, appeared on its flagship television show The 700 Club on Monday to caution Americans against allowing the United States’ relationship with Saudi Arabia to deteriorate over Khashoggi’s death.

    “For those who are screaming blood for the Saudis — look, these people are key allies,” Robertson said. While he called the faith of the Wahabists — the hardline Islamist sect to which the Saudi Royal Family belongs — “obnoxious,” he urged viewers to remember that “we’ve got an arms deal that everybody wanted a piece of…it’ll be a lot of jobs, a lot of money come to our coffers. It’s not something you want to blow up willy-nilly.”

    Did Robertson take all of that loot he made from smuggling blood diamonds out of Africa–using his charity as a front–and invest in the defense industry?

    If Pat is headed to Heaven after he expires, then send me to the other place, as I have no desire to be stuck with hypocrites for all eternity.

  28. Tyrion 2 says:

    Why would it be Trump’s to avenge that man?

  29. “Error” ? “Mistake” ? These people (the KSA) are fucking “stupid” .
    Now they’re saying he died in a “fist fight” in the consulate !
    A 13 year old street criminal would know that that excuse is an admission of guilt. These guys shouldn’t be allowed to run a model railroad.

  30. On television in 1988, Donald Trump said he had bought a US $200 million 85-metre-long yacht,’The Nabila’, from billionaire arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi, uncle of just-murdered-in-Istanbul journalist Jamal Khashoggi. The yacht was named after Adnan Khashoggi’s daughter. Trump later sold the yacht to Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal.

    Donald Trump talking about the boat and arms dealers like Khashoggi – “not the nicest guys in the world”

    Eric Margolis above mentions the coup in Egypt that destroyed the popularly-elected Muslim brotherhood. It is too-little known that, as any Moroccan will tell you, Egypt’s military strongman leader al-Sisi, is Jewish:

    General Abd al-Fattah al-Sisi, is a Jew. His mother, Malikah Titani, is a Moroccan Jew from Asefi, which makes al-Sisi a Jew and an automatic citizen of Israel. … al-Sisi has concealed his Jewish identity and Israeli connections from the Egyptian people…and destroyed their nascent democracy through deception and mass murder.

    Al-Sisi is almost certainly a Mossad agent. … No wonder the Israeli ambassador called al-Sisi “a national hero for all Jews.” … Egypt … a permanent province of Greater Israel, ruled by a Jewish-Zionist thug who has appointed himself pharaoh, while hiding his real background and loyalties.

    Al-Sisi’s uncle, Uri Sibagh served in the Jewish Defense League from 1948 to 1950, made his aliyah to Israel, and became a bigwig in Ben Gurion’s political party, serving as the secretary of the Israeli Labor Party in Beersheba from 1968 to 1981. Uri’s sister – al-Sisi’s mother – presumably emigrated to Egypt on a mission from the Mossad. That mission culminated when the Mossad overthrew President Morsi and installed its agent al-Sisi in the coup d’état of July 3rd, 2013.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  31. Anon[263] • Disclaimer says:

    Pests, whether journalists or rats, need controlled.

    Don’t be a pest.

  32. even a dog knows not to shit its nest. if khashoggi’s death was deemed necessary, kill him in new york where murders happen every day.

    renditioning him using fifteen dish-dash festooned halfwits with bone saws, and truth serum, has all the subtlety of a naval bombardment.

  33. Eagle Eye says:

    … murdered and cut up into pieces in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, to where he was lured last week and from whence he never emerged alive.

    Sorry wrong grammar – no “to” before “where,” no “from” before “whence.”

  34. Mohammed Bone Sawman
    Sawdie Arabia
    The Saudi Chainsaw Massacre

    See what I’m doing there?

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  35. Good interview here:

    The dude is a hard-left ideologue (I think he runs the “Angry Arab” blog), but he’s 100% right that Khassogi was some kind of operative/asset, not a “dissident journalist”.

  36. @Alistair

    Not to mention that the price of oil is an important factor in determining the official inflation rate, so if that comes down the lower the likelihood of the Fed raising rates.

  37. Unzerker says:
    @jilles dykstra

    If you are referring to the mosque of Cordoba as the most impressive building in the world you are truly deluded. It’s basically a large number of plundered Roman columns with a roof on top. Compare that to the European cathedrals of the middle ages. At the time, these were the highest and most advanced buildings in the entire world.

    And water wheels? Really? Christian Europe had vastly more of them. England alone had more than 6000 in 1086 according to their own administration. And while the Arabs mostly used the simpler horizontal wheels, most European water wheels were of the more advanced and efficient vertical kind.
    And speaking of wheels: the Arabs didn’t use them. Everything was carried by men or pack animals.

    I’m always very skeptical about claims by ancient historians. They also claimed Cordoba had half a million inhabitants. Problem is that archaeologists can’t find a shred of evidence to support this. During the 8th and middle of the 10th century (the dark ages) there is almost zero evidence of human activity. And at its height in the 12 century it is estimated to have had a population of around 40,000. That is the same size it was under Visigoth rule.

    Stop believing all the fairy tales about non-Western civilizations.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Respect
    , @Alden
  38. @anon

    That angle is disinformation. Saudis were at most bagmen in 9-11, which was an Israeli operation.

  39. @vincenzo lapazzi

    That’s why the (conveniently coordinated) story we’re being fed is horseshit. The minute he entered the embassy he was on Saudi territory and could have been officially arrested and extradited. He wouldn’t have gone in unless his contacts (probably the CIA via the Turks) assured him he was safe. And the over-the-top gruesomeness (on par with stories a few years ago of Kim Jong Un feeding his uncle to dogs) is doubtless planted to emphasize that even by Saudi’s we’ll-known barbaric standards, this is extreme. Clearly this is a psy-op to depose MbS, who apparently mistreated the wrong “guests” at the Riyadh Hilton last year. (BTW, if Nancy-boy Graham is calling for Saudi blood, you can be sure that the Israelis are ok with all of this, stories even in the alternative press that they’re pro-MbS are disinformation.)

    • Replies: @Z-man
  40. @jilles dykstra

    The Hagia Sophia, built in 537 A.D. was still the most beautiful building in 1453, even after four grotesque minarets were added to it…

  41. I can fully concur with the view of this situation as stated in the article. It reveals the total corruption of all elements of the yankee imperium, those around the deep state and those around Trump.

  42. For all we know, he could be on a honeymoon with his Turkish bride.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  43. @Carroll Price

    Possibly, but I doubt it, given her ties to the Turkish ruling party. She’s quite likely a honey trap, standard intelligence entrapment scheme. Probably this guy is dead, but it needs to be stressed that the only information we’re getting on this comes from Erdogan’s government, which isn’t even remotely trustworthy. My guess is that Trump is in fact right about this, these are rogue elements (although it goes far beyond the House of Saud).

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  44. Media is not a news media anymore.
    Media has become a backseat driver of politics.
    There is very little news in media. Media is full of evaluation by so called experts.
    Naturally media is selecting these experts to suit their goals.
    And so media has become active in politics.
    This has become active brainwashing by media of the population.
    Media by this fact does not give the population chance to make up their own minds.
    Not good!!!!
    Luckily here are websites like this where are presented freely from all sides of the evaluation of the events.

    • Replies: @Druid
  45. Z-man says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    …if Nancy-boy Graham is calling for Saudi blood,

    LOL, you mean ‘Linda’ Graham? LOL

  46. Sean says:

    Khashoggi was a boyhood friend of Osama bin Laden (who was made a hero by Khashogg’s reporting from Afghanistan ) and the right hand man to Turki bin Faisal Al Saud the head of Saudi intelligence until ten days before 9/11/. Khashoggi was critical of Wahhabism and if there was any Saudi state involvement with 9/11 it was probably in the Wahhabite department of Islamic Affairs at the Washington Embassy, so the only thing Khashoggi might know about is the San Diego cell of the 9/11 hijackers benefiting from a CIA and Saudi intelligence joint effort to penetrate Al Qaeda, which is what some exFBI agents have alleged.

    Turki bin Faisal fell from favour. Khashoggi then became associated with Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, a genuinely gifted businessman who is who is by far the most able Saudi, donated to NYC after 9/11, and was mentioned as a future king. Khashoggi was to be head of a TV station that Alwaleed bin Talal was setting up but it was ordered to close down and later he was the main victim of the so called anti corruption drive in which princes were imprisoned and tortured, his arrest came days after he asked Khashoggi to return to Saudi Arabia.

    The question will remain: who in the Saudi leadership was stupid enough to approve the murder of Khashoggi?

    All of them. As a result of MbS’s consolidation of power he is surrounded by yes men, many of them even younger than he is. German intelligence assessed MbS as having freed himself from all steadying influences and likely to overreach, and that is exactly what happened in Yemen and with Khashoggi.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    , @renfro
  47. @Miro23

    Or [Israel] invade Saudi Arabia Eastern Province on some pretext or other and just take the oil directly.

    I’d love to see that. Jesus, I really would.

    Not only the end of the devils’ pact between Israel and Saudi, but also, a thousand times better, Washington’s money-mad lunatics finally forced to choose between oil for America, and the wishes and designs of the maniacs in Tel Aviv – it’s pet Israeli godzilla in the corner. That could be, out of a blue sky, the end of the political relationship which has cursed America – and the earth – since 1948.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  48. anonymous[455] • Disclaimer says:

    @Fidelios Automata No not senseless; the words are very, extremely profitable for the oil bunch and regime change privateers (its modern name is privatization (ownership of public goods and natural resources or converting businesses in a defeated nation into the ownership, control and profit pockets of those private persons foreign to the defeated nation, whose businesses it is, is to benefit from war). Privatization is a way to own a nation and to control its government without having to be seen as the owner of the government or as an entity or group of entities so large that it or the group controls the large segments of government of a nation. But when 90% of the GNP is owned or controlled by private interest the government is nothing more than the jailer that keeps the governed in check and creates by rule of law (bigger and better monopoly powers that can propel private money profits to the moon and beyond. Persons or their corporations that reside in Britain, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc. own most of the profitable segments of the USA. Because Iran and Russia are stiff competition the private owners have made the government make them enemies of the USA. Its all about private profit to be made possible when the private interest can control enough of government to serve their interest. fore example, government makes monopoly laws that benefit private interest: copyright and patents, do not benefit the government. but because they are monopolies, they allow private interest that own them to enjoy government protected and enforced monopolies for their respective private interest. the private profits in copyright and patent monopolies.

    Why is this creating paper wealth from law, regime changing, and kidnapping such a problem? Such things makes virtually impossible open free competition between the everyday people who have little interest in, or access to, international affairs <they cannot compete; when they murder they get fried. Eventually there are no little shops, the only jobs involve fixing something the big guys made or flipping hamburgers for people that can still afford them. I think Trump made it clear, the USA represents those who sell Trillions in destructive weapons to murders; it does not matter who the customers murder. What is now to be tested is whether or not doing business with immoral persons, corporations or governments matters to the people who are governed by the privatized nations or not and if it does matter how the situation will come to be remedied.

    to EM: are you sure it is the US/A (cause it is most certainly is not America) that has been "..kidnapping, torturing and ‘disappearing’ alleged enemies ever since 9/11"? or maybe is it quasi government agencies representing private enterprise or private enterprise itself by and through mercenaries?

    @jilles dykstra
    yes the Ottoman Empire; where all of the oil is, of course, why didn't I think of that!
    First Zionist Congress (1896) made take the oil from the Arabs, its Red October target, agreed on a "TAKE THE OIL FROM THE ARABS" policy and began the efforts that it would take.
    First Salonika, then Greece, WWI, Balfour, Treaty of Versailles, Red October (Russian Revolution #2, after the Tsar abdicated in February (Russian Revolution #1 =both Revolutions 1919, Stalin, Hitler, WWII, USA & British claims of ownership to all of the land under the sea and 20 miles inland, the Israel (Zionist military base positioned in the middle of Ottoman territory).. all the time the City of London and financial NYC, USA hummm

  49. @utu

    That the delusion ignorant morons feign “real outrage” is not a reason for Trump to interfere.

  50. And for a little peek into the world of the deep state

    “Adnan Khashoggi sold his yacht to Sultan of Brunei, who sold it to DONALD TRUMP, who sold it to Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal (who owns substantial portion of TWITTER).”


    “Missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi is a nephew of a billionaire arms dealer and second cousin of Princess Diana’s lover Dodi Fayed”

  51. @vincenzo lapazzi

    renditioning him using fifteen dish-dash festooned halfwits with bone saws, and truth serum, has all the subtlety of a naval bombardment


    You seem to be overlooking the essential problem arising from… umm… Semitic IQ.

  52. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Give that man a coconut.

    But of course, you meant “The Saudi Bone Saw Massacre”.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  53. Agent76 says:

    Oct 18, 2018 What the Media Is Not Telling You About Khashoggi The Missing Journalist

    In this video, we give you the latest breaking news on what the media is not telling you about Jamal Khashoggi

  54. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Probably this guy is dead, but it needs to be stressed that the only information we’re getting on this comes from Erdogan’s government, which isn’t even remotely trustworthy

    Thank you very much for this priceless and timely reminder, to combat the madness. I can barely believe no one else has bothered to say this for the past ten days. A much-needed slice of realism.

    Where is the statement of the Consulate Manager / Governor as to the whereabouts of the ordinary Consulate admin staff at the time ? Where are the Turkish police photos of the blood-soaked floor ? The smashed furniture ? Where are the cctv video and stills of the FIFTEEN ?? lunatics in Saudi teatowel headgear entering the premises “unobserved” complete with weapons and bone saws ? Where is the internal cctv ? Where are the backdoor exit cctv pictures, with carried corpse (or parts), and waiting vehicles – complete with registration numbers ?

    This entire ludicrous, laughable B-movie plot narrative is a worthless pack of political lies. He may be dead by now, in a cell in Tel Aviv or Riyadh, but he sure as hell wasn’t killed in Istanbul. Simply lies. And we all know who tells the lies in the middle-east… don’t we ?

    • Replies: @Druid
  55. @Cato

    The Muslim Brotherhood has been mainly a charitable and social rights organisation, which to a great extent has been viewed as a threat by the mostly despotic puppets and their colonial masters. They have been portrayed as “terrorist” group by the Imperial powers and it troll media. Morsi made a boo boo when he ran and won the presidential election. It was something that the Brotherhood promised not to get involved in, they saw what happened to Algeria and Turkey, before Erdogan, the power of colonial Imperialism just wouldn’t allow it. Accusing Khashoggi of sympathising with the Brotherhood has zero negative meaning, except for colonial powers, and to a large extent, the Zionists, they have their own man now in the Arab world’s most populous country, Egypt.
    Good or bad Khashoggi was, the manner in which he was killed shows how much the Arabs need to evolve mentally.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Druid
  56. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Can a smart watch record everything that’s supposed to have happened is a very perceptive question.

  57. Alden says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    Why mess with a perfectly functioning system? They have oil. We use the oil.

    Better one Washington Post occasional contributor die than hundreds of thousands in yet another American war in the Middle East.

    Plus, consider the environmental damage to beloved Mother Gai done during wars in the middle of oil fields.

  58. @Sean

    a CIA and Saudi intelligence joint effort to penetrate Al Qaeda, which is what some exFBI agents have alleged.

    The problem with that narrative, is that the CIA created “Al Qaeda” myth.

    Of course, the above is “Russian propaganda” and is designed to interfere in the elections.

    • Agree: Agent76, Druid
    • Replies: @Agent76
  59. Why did not the media raise as much concern about the strange disappearances and deaths of the many people associated with the Clintons over the years?

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  60. Herald says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Not a lot of difference between IS and SA and of course they are both allies of the US.

  61. anonymous[322] • Disclaimer says:

    Stop believing all the fairy tales about non-Western civilizations.

    After reading Jilles post, I was expecting a “strong” counter from white supremacists. I gather that only fairy-tales spun by westerners are to be believed? LOL!

    As a muslim I totally agree that referring to the so-called Islamic achievements in Europe is meaningless, because it depends so much on hearsay. I am not much into hearsay. It happened or it did not, who cares.

    So you’re right, forget these hearsay fairy-tales about non-Western (specifically Islamic) civilisations. We true muslims live our monotheist lives for now, and not on what our ancestors may or may not have achieved centuries past.

    But, understand this, if one is a theist (still a few of those in the West, I believe 😀 ), there is nothing fairy-tale-like about true monotheism, our real strength. You know, One and only One God, with no duplicitous tricks about 3 is 1, 100%man-100%god, and all… which you will immediately recognise as the hearsay fairy-tale foundation of the “glorious” West’s spiritually doomed existence. Do you see the irrefutable point I am trying to make?

    So, as the likes of you go about belittling “inferior” non-Western civilisations, we true monotheists will eventually have the last laugh.

    Carry on.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Nadir
  62. Now this operating bone saw matter is ridiculous.
    Any steel hack saw with Lenox blade will cut through bone like it would be a butter.

  63. @Miro23

    Good comment and I second your “Thanks” for the video of this well-spoken, well-informed man.

  64. Agent76 says:

    Zbigniew Brzezinski Taliban Pakistan Afghanistan pep talk 1979

    In 1979 Carters National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski went into Pakistans border regions with Afghanistan to give a little pep talk to some prospective majehadeen.

    September 11, 2016 Al Qaeda: The Data Base

    Wayne Madsen Report and Global Research 20 November 2005
    Osama bin Laden with Zbigniew Brzezinski, 1979 Global Research Editor’s Note: This article originally published by Global Research in 2005 sheds light on the nature of Al Qaeda, an intelligence construct used by Washington to destabilize and destroy sovereign countries, while sustaining the illusion of an outside enemy, which threatens the security of the Western World.

  65. Tyrion 2 says:

    If you’re a “TravellerAryan” I am the Avatar of Shiva.

  66. Tyrion 2 says:

    Keep sticking your butt high in the air with all of your female-deprived “brothers”.

    I don’t care, just stop creating such crap and pitiful societies that blame all of their problems on people far away.

    You guys no longer worship Allah. You now worship white people, but as sometimes kind yet zometimes cruel Gods who are responsible for your entire situation.

    They are not, obviously, but tbh your women treated me 10/10 because they have been led by their whinging beta menfolk to believe it.

    It makes me cringe. Though I did have fun.

  67. Respect says:

    Remember that in muslim ruled Spain and Portugal it is thought that the ethnic arabic
    population never was higher than 15 % .

    The mayority of the population of Spain and Portugal was Christian , hispanoroman , they were called morazabes ( mozarabitun ) and they had to pays a religious tax to the moslem rulers . Some mozarabes converted to islam for avoiding taxes , and some rich hispanic people converted to islam to maintain their fortunes , like the roman dinasty Casio that islamised their name to Beni Qasi and ruled the Ebro valley . In Al-Andalus ( Hispania ) the hispanoromans influenced the moslems , and the moslems influenced the hispanoromans .

    And , Unzerkur , regarding fairy tales , or historic myths , it seems that the Al-Andalus moslems had the myth that the christians of north Spain and Europe never took baths and smelled very bad , hehehehehe

  68. The Saudis killed one of their own citizens, so what? This isn’t even the worst thing they’ve done this week.

    Our relations with the Saudis are, and always have been, properly based on considerations of Realpolitik. In particular, securing the flow of oil, countering Iran, and protecting Israel.

    Virtue signaling about Saudi human rights abuses is a fool’s errand.

    Besides, if we started to really think about the nature of their barbarity it would inevitably lead to the thought crime of Islamophobia.

    • Replies: @Dale
  69. buckwheat says:

    This bothers me about as much as if they had beheaded a goat. Killing this terrorist sympathizer was a favor to the United States and we should appreciate it as such.

  70. Nadir says:

    But, understand this, if one is a theist (still a few of those in the West, I believe 😀 ), there is nothing fairy-tale-like about true monotheism, our real strength. You know, One and only One God, with no duplicitous tricks about 3 is 1, 100%man-100%god, and all… which you will immediately recognise as the hearsay fairy-tale foundation of the “glorious” West’s spiritually doomed existence. Do you see the irrefutable point I am trying to make?

    So, as the likes of you go about belittling “inferior” non-Western civilisations, we true monotheists will eventually have the last laugh.

    Carry on.

    Thank you for putting the matter so plainly. I don’t see how any rational person can read this and arrive at any other conclusion than that the inclusion of Islam will result in the destruction of the West.

  71. @Dave Bowman

    Yeah, I was trying to stay too close to the original, I agree, yours is better.

  72. Skeptikal says:

    “The US has been kidnapping, torturing and ‘disappearing’ alleged enemies ever since 9/11.”

    Why no mention of Julian Assange in this context?
    The USA would love to rub him out.
    In fact, they are doing so in slow motion by keeping him imprisoned—through implied threats that he and others take very seriously—in an consulate where he is being mentally tortured by means of virtually total isolation and physically abused because he gets no light, no fresh air, who knows what kind of food or exercise he gets, plus it seems to be known that he needs medical attention that he is not getting.

    It is to be hoped that the gruesome spectacle of the Khashoggi murder will focus minds on the still living. If Khashoggi’s murder turns out to be of some benefit to Assange, then it will be a sliver of light in the darkness that surrounds Assange and so many other journalists.

    • Replies: @Dale
  73. renfro says:

    German intelligence assessed MbS as having freed himself from all steadying influences and likely to overreach, and that is exactly what happened in Yemen and with Khashoggi.

    So did US intelligence. MbS is a 33 yr old psychopathic teenager.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  74. @renfro

    That’s undoubtedly true, but nothing of consequence has happened to him over Yemen. Saudi incompetence there would be hilarious if not for the horrible humanitarian disaster they’ve inflicted. Yet no one says anything about it, least of all the US government who supplies the arms. But a single shady “journalist” maybe gets hacked up (again, no one but the Turks have any information one way or the other, Saudis have only admitted to something everyone knows they already do, dog-bites-man story), and it’s a major crisis? Not buying it. The Saudis have more money than brains, it’s true, but I find it hard to believe they’d do something this stupid. MbS has plenty of enemies (internal and external) who would readily set up something like this.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  75. Alden says:

    Jilles is still fighting on the Calvinist Cromwell side of the reformation.
    Catholic bad non catholic good whether the non Catholic is Florence Nightengale or Joseph Stalin.

    Most of the “Muslim Spain was the greatest country in the world is Enlightenment and Jewish propaganda.

    I remember reading the chapter in freshman year high school multicultural history of the world about the greatness of muslim Spain compared to primitive Christian Europe.

    I rightly assumed the author compared the glories of the Sultan’s palace with the most primitive backwaters of Europe. Thus I became a cynic at 14.

    The main thing to remember about Muslim Spain is that the Alhambra and the other glorious buildings were built by Christian European slaves from architects and engineers to porters and cleaners.

    Ishfan the beautiful Shia version of the Vatican in Iran was also built by European Christian slaves. So was the beautiful Blue Mosque in Turkey and many of the major buildings in Islamic lands

    The closer to Europe and its supply of slaves, the better the infrastructure and cities of the Muslims.

    Further from the supply of European slaves the more primitive Islamic countries were.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @utu
    , @anon
  76. anon[355] • Disclaimer says:

    “…the downfall of the medieval Saudi regime”.

    Thing is it will probably be replaced by another regime of one sort or another that will be no better or even worse.

    The idea that Saudi Arabia will become an open society with a free multi-party parliamentary democracy with equal rights, free speech and press is laughable.

  77. renfro says:

    There are more stupid people than usual on this Khashoggi thread.

    Why are some pro-Israel voices speaking out against Jamal Khashoggi?

    WASHINGTON (JTA) — Two weeks after he disappeared, Jamal Khashoggi, the Saudi Washington Post columnist, is getting his reputation run through a wringer, and some pro-Israel voices are joining the pile-on.
    Even as gruesome allegations emerge that he was tortured, murdered and dismembered after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, some Israel supporters have joined other figures on the right in describing Khashoggi as a terrorist sympathizer and fierce opponent of Israel. Their goal appears to be to counter a portrait of Khashoggi as a Saudi reformer and free speech activist, and perhaps derail pressure building on the White House to punish Saudi Arabia for his disappearance and presumed murder.

    Purveyors of the attacks on Khashoggi said they wanted to set the record straight. Other observers suggested that the public fight over Khashoggi’s reputation has to do with a number of issues central to the latest crisis in U.S.-Saudi relations: cultivating Saudi cooperation in the diplomatic fight against Iran, keeping the Saudis on board the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, and maintaining the kingdom as a bulwark against violent forms of radical Islam.

    Who’s saying what

    The hits on Khashoggi, deriding him as a radical Islamist and an anti-Semite, have emerged alongside gruesome reports by official Turkish sources about his disappearance: According to the Turkish reports, the U.S.-based columnist entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul for some paperwork ahead of his planned wedding to a Turkish national, and a team of 15 Saudi agents was waiting to torture and kill him.
    As reported Friday in The Washington Post, the anti-Khashoggi narrative is emerging among hard-line conservatives and is being circulated in Republican congressional offices.
    Donald Trump Jr. retweeted one of the earliest attacks on Khashoggi, from a correspondent for the PJ Media conservative website. The correspondent, Patrick Poole, had posted photos of interviews Khashoggi had conducted in the late 1980s with Osama bin Laden, who went on to found al-Qaeda and to plot the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

    “I didn’t realize until yesterday that Jamal Khashoggi was the author of this notorious 1988 Arab News article of him tooling around Afghanistan with Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda co-founder Abdullah Azzam,” Poole tweeted on Oct. 12, 10 days after Khashoggi’s disappearance. “He’s just a democrat reformer journalist holding a RPG with jihadists.”

    The interview was at a time when the Reagan administration was backing insurgents in Afghanistan. Khashoggi was indeed sympathetic to bin Laden (the Khashoggi and bin Laden families were close). When bin Laden launched terrorism operations against the West, however, Khashoggi disavowed him.
    Other joined the fray. FrontPage mag, helmed by right-wing provocateur David Horowitz, ran an article the same day declaring, “Jamal Khashoggi blamed 9/11 on U.S. support for Israel.” The article cites a piece Khashoggi wrote in 2001 after the attacks, published in Arab News and the Guardian, in which Khashoggi sympathetically describes Saudi reactions to the attacks but does not outright endorse them

    Even as gruesome allegations emerge that he was tortured, murdered and dismembered after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, some Israel supporters have joined other figures on the right in describing Khashoggi as a terrorist sympathizer and fierce opponent of Israel. Their goal appears to be to counter a portrait of Khashoggi as a Saudi reformer and free speech activist, and perhaps derail pressure building on the White House to punish Saudi Arabia for his disappearance and presumed murder.
    On Oct. 17, the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s European office sent out a release titled “Wiesenthal Centre Exposes Jamal Khashoggi Antisemitic Tweets.”
    “The Wiesenthal Centre expresses its horror and revulsion at the presumed gruesome murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi,” the release said. “In a search, however, of his official Twitter account, Simon Wiesenthal Centre Director for International Relations, Dr. Shimon Samuels, discovered the following tweets of 16 October 2015.” Samuels is a respected analyst who monitors extremism on the left and the right. “If you have a tweet and it is of interest and in the public domain, it shouldn’t be hidden,” Samuels told JTA.
    In the tweets, Khashoggi denies any Jewish connection to the land of Israel, and says the Western Wall was a Muslim construction — a false narrative that infuriates Israelis, and is commonplace in the region, particularly among Palestinians

    The “we need Saudi Arabia” argument

    White House adviser Jared Kushner sees the Saudis, and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in particular, as key to advancing the Israeli-Palestinian peace proposal he hopes to unveil soon.
    Right-wing pro-Israel figures have embraced Trump because he has embraced their outlook, moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem and pulling out of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, and now they may be returning the favor, said Michael Koplow, the policy director for the Israel Policy Forum, a group that backs the two-state solution.
    Kushner has not revealed details of the plan, but right-wingers are hopeful that it rolls back many of the pro-Palestinian orthodoxies of past plans, including statehood as an outcome and a presence in Jerusalem’s Old City.

    Netanyahu is counting on Saudi Arabia

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has touted emerging ties with Saudi Arabia and other countries as validating his strategy of downplaying peace with the Palestinians, believing he can make Israel at home in the region without the Palestinians. Bin Salman was a key figure in this strategy.

  78. Dale says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    Those invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan haven’t taught you anything.

    Infantile comic book military bullshit.

  79. Dale says:

    No, it would provoke a Petrodollar crisis, and that cannot happen.

  80. Dale says:

    Assange would be just as surely murdered insofar as he would spend his life in an American SuperMax Prison (TM) that operates for profit and lobbies for more laws about anything it can call illegal.

  81. Anon[375] • Disclaimer says:

    I think I can guess MBS’s next target. Erodogan. MBS has to be furious at Erodogan for making a big fuss and trying to blackmail him, and he knows perfectly well the US has zero interest in keeping Erodogan in power. This means hit squads aimed at the leader of Turkey.

  82. Sean says:

    Khashoggi can be said to have had some responsibility for 9/11. Having known bin Laden from when he was a head-the-ball eccentric youth in a long wrinkled shirt (nothing in the Koran about irons) that objected to short shorts for football, Khashoggi created Osama bin Laden the successful Jihadi with misleading reporting from Afghanistan. Khashoggi was so able he was the trusted advisor, perhaps actually designing the policy of, the princely head of Saudi intelligence right up to 9/11. Unfortunately his patron resigned ten days before 9/11 for reasons that remain unclear to this day, and Khashoggi fell from the inner circles. He became even more that previously the go-to guy for western journalists and probably diplomatic and intelligence analysts. Almost anything in MSM you have read about the kingdom was drawing on him as a source.

    Then he went to work for the other wing of the Saud family Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, who had been mentioned as a possible Crown Prince (ie King in waiting). Uniquely for a Saudi prince, bin Talal is truly capable and he is also by Saudi standards extremely reform minded in regard to the women issues, but fatally he is involved in media and so a doubly a threat. The succession that has MbS as crown price is father to son instead of brother to brother for the first time since the fifties, that is the reason there is suddenly someone so young running things.

    After their planned Saudi tv station was ordered to close, Khashoggi left Saudi Arabia and after bin Talal talked to him on the phone to ask for his return bin Talal was arrested and shaken down for half of his unpteen billion fortune (which has entirely come from shrewd investments). Khashoggi was too much of a threat, he was totally opposed to MbS and also virtually running the way Saudi Arabia was perceived in the West. He knew to much and talked to much and too many influential Westerners listened to him. He counted on Saudi Arabia being scared of America, but the main reason they had to be scared of the US was Khashoggi’s influence. Nation states have emergent qualities, and one is for the state destroying traitors is always worth it.

    • Replies: @Druid
    , @Alden
  83. @Beefcake the Mighty

    And next you will tell me that Japanese were crypto-Jews. Perhaps the tribesman of New Guinea.

    I’ve lived in Oman and Dubai. Jews are not even allowed through Saudi AIRSPACE.

  84. Skeptikal says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    MbS probably gets a lot of his info through the filter of Jared Kushner and other “Westerners.” Actually, Zionists, who are not “Westerners.”
    The very fact that he has gotten away with as much as he has with nary a rap on the knuckles is adequate to explain his misstep.
    Of course, others are using the situation for their own purposes.

    As well deconstructed on a video posted from Real News elsewhere on this thread.

    No matter what K’s political background, he did not deserve to die like a dog in the Saudi consulate.

    Speaking of dogs, I find it odd—the dog that didn’t bark—that ASAIK no pundits have seen fit to comment on K’s social background as the grandson of Adnan Khashoggi, the cousin of Dodi Fayed, etc. In other words, a member of the Saudi super-rich elite. This may go some distance toward explaining his relationship with Osama bL. They probably grew up together in the same super-rich social circles before becoming agnostics of some sort and deciding to shake things up.
    Of course it is not inconceivable that no matter how rich the bin Ladens and Khashoggis became, they were still viewed as parvenus by the parvenu tribe of Saud. Even rich people can develop a huge chip on their shoulder if looked down upon by their “betters.”

    IMO the best thing I have heard about K is his steadfast defense of the Palestinian cause. Now that would be a motivation for the Israelis to get rid of him, or to sanction doing so with a couple of the old winks and nods. Salman should have let Mossad professionals deal with Khashoggi. But, maybe he did, and this is what happened! The Israelis might have decided that the teenage psychopathic loose canon no longer fit with their plans for the MENA. They might have whispered in his ear that the consulate visit was a great op. to off K.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  85. utu says:

    Jilles is still fighting on the Calvinist Cromwell side of the reformation.
    Catholic bad non catholic good whether the non Catholic is Florence Nightengale or Joseph Stalin.

    Liever Turks dan Paaps (“Rather Turkish than Papist”), also Liever Turksch dan Paus (“Rather Turkish than Pope”), was a Dutch slogan during the Dutch Revolt of the end of the 16th century. (wiki)

  86. Zumbuddi says:

    Maybe oil.

    But Adam Schiff revealed another, perhaps more critical, agenda: Israel needs to contain KSA’s military capability.

    Mention that KSA is on a path to regional dominance is verboten to Israel and its handmaids.

    • Replies: @utu
  87. APilgrim says:

    Wall Street Speculators are furious that KSA has cancelled the ARAMCO IPO.

    Wall Street & Globalist Bankers despise: rational, loyal, nationalist government leaders such as Trump, Orban, Putin, Netanyahu & Deputy Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia Mohammad bin Salman Al Saud (MBS).

    Globalists should have DOA Bounties on their heads, IMHPO.

    • Replies: @utu
  88. utu says:

    Is it a joke or Saudi Arabia is paying you for it?

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  89. utu says:

    The only reason SA is being armed is because Israel wants it. SA is a secret ally of Israel in preparation for confrontation with Iran. It is SA that financed destabilization of Syria.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
    , @Ilyana_Rozumova
  90. Zumbuddi says:

    Although — 1 more reason to sell arms to KSA= it has money.
    But Israel DID object to sales of some technology to Saudis several years ago, unless Israel got the same or better technology.

    Israel is determined to maintain militry superiority.

    From Israeli pov, not inco sistent for Saudis to spend more, and even bleed more, to destroy Iran, but MbS should not delude himself that he is in the driver’s seat, aka the Chosen Position.

  91. Avrier says:

    @ Byrresheim
    I don’t know where you got your source regarding Boulay but, although Talleyrand was with Fouché, then Police Minister, one of the instigators of the abduction, the latter is widely believed to be the author of the ”worse than a crime” notorious statement

    Pardon my hint at historical accuracy, please

  92. @utu

    SA is totally vulnerable. Oil burns you know.

  93. Vojkan says:

    A mistake is never worse than a crime. Premeditated murder and murder from opportunity are murders not accidents. They are crimes. Now I understand that you bound by marriage to the Albanian mafia can blather. You have so much of a life expectancy.

  94. Druid says:

    BS. 911 was an inside job with Israel!

  95. Vojkan says:

    Will your handlers take the risk of having you utter an inconvenient truth in an informal conversation?

  96. anon[252] • Disclaimer says:

    i don’t care about some supposed reporter for WaPo that got offed

    if i saw them care about Kate Steinle then i might give a damn about one of theirs

  97. Druid says:

    Hard for you to call it what it is, high? Totally Zionist controlled

  98. Druid says:
    @Dave Bowman

    I don’t think much of your intellect (IQ) either, bud!

  99. Druid says:

    What about the IDF and their daily murders, the US daily murder by drones, bombs, puppets, etc. have they all evolved,min your mind. Bi hate the high and mighty tone of some commenters. Are we better because we kill more efficiently!

  100. mr meener says:

    I am starting to think this fat bastard khas-HOG-gi is a jew cause remember one jew is worth the lives of 1000’s of gentiles. all the people killed in yemen and all the people the Saudis have killed and all the attention on this guy? it sounds bagelish to me

  101. Druid says:

    Idiot, 911 was a neocon-Zionist Israeli thing. Why are so many of so ignorant about this. You’re quick to point out the low intelligence od the Arabs but accept that they did 911. Do some reading and research!

  102. APilgrim says:


    No, actually you are the joke.

  103. APilgrim says:

    Jamal Khashoggi looks like a radical Islamic Terrorist, to me. His friends & colleagues provide plenty of details.

    Jamal Khashoggi’s long road to the doors of the Saudi Consulate, By David Ignatius, Columnist, Opinions, October 12, 2018,

    “Khashoggi’s path took him through risky territory. He was friendly with Osama bin Laden in his militant youth; his patron in mid-career was Prince Turki al-Faisal, the longtime Saudi intelligence chief”

  104. APilgrim says:

    The Washington Post is a hotbed of globalist: extremism, espionage, sedition, and treason directed against the Nation States of: USA, KSA, Israel, Hungary, & Russia.

    Jamal Khashoggi probably committed such crimes against the USA as well as KSA. He may well have provided targets across the earth, to terrorists.

    The guy appears to be a life-long, radical Jihadi, IMHPO. Good riddance!

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    , @anon
    , @anon
    , @anon
  105. @APilgrim

    How right you are!!!! Problem was that Muslims are sexually stimulated by seeing blood.
    They wanted to see his blood. They could have him eliminated thousand ways secretly, with rope around his neck, but that does not work with Muslims.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @APilgrim
    , @anon
  106. Yes the Western press’s fascination with Khashoggi’s murder is more than unusual, it’s confounding, and somewhat quizzical. Where’s the payoff? Could MBS be so stupid? MBS made a mistake which his enemies are now capitalizing on. Who knew he had so many? Well there’s Las Vegas.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  107. anon[231] • Disclaimer says:

    I have told you before not to blather .

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  108. Unrelated Curious Fact … foreign owned U.S. Treasury Bonds: As of August 2018, Israel is last on the list of major foreign holders with 30.4 billions. Good for 32nd place, just ahead of the Philippines, but way behind the Cayman Island’s 197.9 b, and light years behind China’s 1165. billions.
    Israel’s nominal holdings may be a valid indicator of the true value of the U.S. dollar.
    I get the sense we’re living on borrowed time.

  109. anon[231] • Disclaimer says:

    Has menstrual blood stopped working for you ?

  110. @Skeptikal

    Actually Khashoggi spoke out of both sides of his mouth on the Palestinian issue, see the interview with the “angry Arab” blogger I posted earlier.

    Indeed, his family connections to Iran-Contra, Princess Diana, etc, all unmentioned in the MSM, are a pretty clear indication that this case isn’t so cut-and-dry (see what I did there again?). Again, he could have officially been brought back to KSA for whatever Stalinist show trial MbS wanted as soon as he set foot in the embassy. There was absolutely no reason to make such a mess of this (I’m doing it again, notice). This has set-up written all over it, except Khashoggi was just the means to the end.

  111. @the grand wazoo

    The word you’re looking for is, “coordinated”.

  112. anon[252] • Disclaimer says:

    The Washington Post is a hotbed of globalist: extremism, espionage, sedition, and treason directed against the Nation States of: USA, KSA, Israel, Hungary, & Russia.

    this is an odd grouping of countries.

    are you sure that WaPo is against all of them?

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  113. Alden says:

    Thanks very much. That’s better information than anything in the media I’ve seen.

    • Replies: @Sean
  114. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra

    And the Vatican library had millions of books in the 11th century. St Katherine monastery had more than a million “There is but one book and that is the Koran” was then and is now the motto of Islam.

    We know you hate Spain because Emperor Maxmillan had just one grandson

    Maybe the Dutch revolution against the Spanish empire in Europe was the greatest thing in Dutch history, greater than the colonization of Indonesia and a few Caribbean islands such as Aruba with its marvelous criminal justice system in which a Dutch judge helped conceal and bury the body of a murder victim.

    But only a few Dutch such as you care what happened in the Netherlands 460 years ago. There must be some Calvinist Churches where you can go to celebrate the great victory.

  115. APilgrim says:

    These Nation States are Sovereign, rather than parts of the global collective.

    ‘The HIVE’ is at war with them all, and determined to overthrow their governments.

  116. APilgrim says:

    I know nothing of Muhammadan ‘blood-lust’ in the prurient sense.

    But they are a vicious and sadistic lot of terrorists & sympathizers.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  117. @APilgrim

    Christians and Mohammedans and as a matter of fact also Jews are on different path of development, and by that fact they should not mix. Otherwise the trouble will be coming,
    A big one.

  118. anastasia says:

    The only possible reason why this country is getting so excited about this foreigner’s death can only be because Khashoggi was a spy for the US. When US citizens get killed abroad, our country couldn’t care less. eg Rachel Corrie, Ambassador Stevens and countless others

  119. I guess it was a mistake of the house of Saud to show its criminal nature so openly. However, the key US lawmakers raising hue and cry about it are well-known Israel agents of influence. So, the US and Israel are not worried about the house of Saud being a criminal family: they are our sons of bitches, to use the expression of FDR, an icon POTUS of the crazy left. The US and Israel are worried that the wrong (from their perspective) Godfather got to the top in this crime family.

  120. anon[222] • Disclaimer says:

    1”In many respects, bin Salman’s regime has been revolutionary: he has let women drive, sided with Israel against Iran and curtailed the religious police. When Boris Johnson was foreign secretary, he said that bin Salman was the best thing to happen to the region in at least a decade,–

    2”a dedicated group of pundits goes into an overdrive trying to minimize the blow to Saudi Arabia’s international reputation. The pundits in question mostly work for the neoconservative, pro-Israel Washington-based thinktanks such as the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD) and the Washington Institute for Near East (WINEP). They are aided in this endeavor by members of the Gulenist cult”-

    Interesting convergences of interests . But why Washington Post, NYT or CNN not board ?

    But the moral support offers by Pat Robertson is very illuminating .It shows the nature of the Christianity . He possibly has told MbS that MbS still can go to heaven by accepting Jesus as Lord the Savior . MbS has possibly been explained that the Christianity offers unlimited supply of forgiveness and tickets to heaven All he has to do is to a admit that Jesus is the Lord and the Savior,before and after committing crimes.

    • Replies: @anon
  121. anon[222] • Disclaimer says:

    It seems the blood shed by the West from WW1 to Iraq war at the insistence of a darker force has not taught you much .
    That was not Christianity . But the darker forces want Muslim to believe that these were Christian .

    • Replies: @anon
  122. republic says:

    GeorgeGalloway: First cut won’t be the deepest – deeper wounds are yet to come in the killing of Khashoggi


    As Khashoggi’s “disfigured face and body parts” are reportedly found in the garden of the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul, the party is over for the Western collaborators with Arabian tyranny.
    After Khashoggi himself, the main loser from the murder most foul in Istanbul is US President Donald Trump – as I predicted here weeks ago. His declaration that the Saudi cover story was “credible” as the rest of the world laughed at the “Lady MacBeth” of it merely made him ridiculous. The behavior of his own “crown prince” – his son-in-law Jared Kushner – has been more venal than comic-opera.
    As I predicted, despite the Clinton family’s own exposure to Saudi largesse, the Democrats and their vast media hinterland have adopted the killing of Khashoggi as their new casus belli displacing their running out of steam “Russiagate” narrative (in fact the people who filled the American airwaves with Russophobic hatred for the last two years are now throwing their hands up in horror at Trump – Putin’s puppet remember – declaring a new nuclear arms race, against Russia).
    From Uber to Facebook from JP Morgan to Virgin scores of withdrawals have hit the “Davos in the Desert” jamboree and the kingdom “is in crisis” as the Saudi Energy minister just publicly conceded.
    That much is self-evident and an easily predictable ending to the short brute lethal tenure of the Saudi Caligula which has murdered thousands in Yemen in Syria in Saudi Arabia itself and which is surely close to its end.
    In the West the scene is like watching cockroaches scattering when the light comes up suddenly and unexpectedly. Nowhere is this a more ugly sight than in the UK.
    In the 1980s I was sent on a parliamentary mission to Saudi Arabia, under the leadership of Tory grandee Sir Francis Pym later Lord Pym, earlier the Foreign Secretary of Britain before that office became cheapened by mediocrity and a distinct lack of class. There had been some turbulence in British-Saudi relations which threatened to disturb the vastly profitable and deeply corrupt Al Yamamah arms deal.
    “Soft soap dear boy, soft soap,” Sir Francis told me was our purpose. A liberal application of soft soap. “Can’t apologize…mustn’t apologize,” he added (I told you it was an era of greater class) but lay the soft soap on thick was our battle orders.
    We met the then Saudi king and most of the important princes; Sir Francis was a master at work. He never apologized but boy, did he lay it on thick. It worked and the dirty business of milking the old fools in power in Riyadh was resumed.
    Of course, British profits were even then a mere fraction of the American bounty a gap which has only grown larger over the next thirty years. And different too, no longer just guns but butter, technology, media, movies, leisure (who knew Disneyland was a Saudi-playpark) and tourism.
    Literally thousands of Western media outfits and their hirelings have been corrupted by Saudi gold. Think-Tanks, “Institutes” of all kinds even Britain’s natural history museum have been revealed to be on the take from the House of Saud. It was the latter’s bad luck that when the music stopped with the murder of a Washington Post columnist and the dismemberment of his body the very same night the Saudi Embassy was holding a soiree in one of their august halls.
    The irony of the Creationist Kingdom sipping mocktails in the house that Charles Darwin built wasn’t missed by many. Newspapers and magazines which had grown fat on overt and covert Saudi sponsorship, advertising revenues and sweetheart arrangements are now shocked! Shocked! in the manner of the corrupt Vichy police chief on “discovering” there was gambling going on at Humphrey Bogart’s Rick’s Café in the movie “Casablanca”.
    No-one has U-turned more sharply than the Saudi Crown Prince’s chief PR man in the West, Thomas Friedman of the New York Times.

    Appearing with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour Friedman seemed like a man on the edge of a nervous breakdown. All those tens of thousands of words wasted on a common criminal like Mohammed bin Salman. Never mind, it was richly remunerative whilst it lasted, Tom!
    As Oscar Wilde said on the Death Scene in Charles Dickens “Little Nell” – “you’d have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.”
    Most devastating though has been the corruption soon to be unmasked in the political class itself.
    When the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn tabled a motion earlier this year to halt British arms sales to Saudi Arabia pending an inquiry into the use of the weapons in the bloody war on Yemen, it could well have passed. But for the betrayal by more than 100 Labour MPs on his own side. Gay Labour MPs sided with those who throw gays off buildings. Feminist Labour MPs sided with those who abjure even mediaeval standards of women’s rights. Democrats siding with the very desert of liberty freedom and democracy. I was suspicious, even puzzled at the scale of Saudi support within the Parliamentary Labour Party. Soon, I think, everything will be a lot more clear.
    This story will run and run.
    As for now, the “Custodians of the Two Holy Mosques” to give the Saudi royals their Friday name are faced with burying the face of Jamal Khashoggi, a man who whatever his differences at the margin with Saudi policy supported the head-chopper army Saudi funded in Syria right up until the point his own head was severed from his shoulders. A man who wrote a Washington Post op-ed entitled “It is time to divide Syria” was himself divided into parts by the architects of the failed severing of Syria.
    Even Shakespeare couldn’t have written that story.

  123. anon[245] • Disclaimer says:

    pro-Israel Washington-based thinktanks such as the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD) and the Washington Institute for Near East (WINEP)

    these kind of groups are always suspicious

    what’s next? Foundation for the Defense of Apple Pie?

  124. Eighthman says:

    all these comments and nobody explains why US political figures and the media are attacking MBS.

    Maybe they realize he is reckless and out of control. They want somebody else in charge.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Miro23
  125. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:

    Do you need reasons? Look then if it helps the MBS bashers influence some unrelated domestic agenda.

    Now that has always been the case. Foreign policy is subordinated to the domestic aspirations not to the national interest in any shape or form .

    • Replies: @Eighthman
  126. Eighthman says:

    Nah, this includes Lindsay Graham and Deep State media. It appears to be more than ‘we hate Trump and you like him, so……’.

    There’s gotta be better ways to influence the mid-terms. I’m surprised a school hasn’t been shot up by a lone gunman unrelated to any further conspiracy ( you know, the usual).

    Something is happening. The mystery is what…….

  127. Miro23 says:

    all these comments and nobody explains why US political figures and the media are attacking MBS.

    Maybe they realize he is reckless and out of control. They want somebody else in charge.

    One possibility is that that “somebody else” just got converted into separate body parts and was tortured first to find out who else was in on the plot.

  128. mcohen says:

    The question worth asking is what does jamal khashoggi and seth rich both have in answer could be they were both back stabbed and both are linked to wikileaks and julian assange.
    Which brings me to the next question.why is assange still alive when all those around him are dying.
    I sometimes wonder what was so important on clintons servers that warranted extreme actions.
    The deadly secrets are never kept on servers ever.They are written down and buried in deep dark holes.
    So in fact the accessible so called “top secrets” are just honey traps to flush out spies.
    And julian is the go to guy that springs the trap.
    That then brings me to my final question.Is there a book in this or even a movie deal.

  129. Now it’s ‘Khashoggi murder worst cover-up.’

    Trump actually seems to be playing an interesting game here. In a mirror image of Erdogan’s drip-feed of damning accusations, he backs bin Salman as far as he decently can — then retreats the next day to a more complete condemnation.

    The net effect is to prolong the story, and in effect subject the US-Saudi alliance — and hence the nascent war on Iran — to a death of a thousand cuts.

    …which may be what Trump really wants. At the same time, he can say, ‘Gee, Mr. Adelson; I supported the Crown Prince as much as I could.’

    He’d best watch his step. When the Messiah comes, only good gentiles get to serve the Jews as slaves for all eternity. Bad ones burn in hell forever.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  130. anon[158] • Disclaimer says:

    The Sanskrit BRIHATSAMBITA , written perhaps in the 6 th century , warns. , “ If a Shiva Linga , image , or temple breaks apart, moves , sweats, cries, speaks, or otherwise acts with no apparent cause , this warns of the destruction of the king and his territory .”

    Acting on this premise that religious images held political power , Hindu Kings targeted one another’s temples beginning in the 7 th century , regularly looting and defiling images of Durga, Ganesha,Vishnu , and so forth .
    They also periodically destroyed each other’s temples .
    Some Hindu Kings even commissioned Sanskrit poetry to celebrate and memorialize such actions “

    The life and legacy of India’s most controversial king .

    by. Audrey Truschke, Assistant Professor of History at Rutgers University

    Periodically commentators refer to the destruction pillage and bloodshed in India by muslim invaders when they run out of examples. . This is for them

  131. Zumbuddi says:
    @Colin Wright

    Jews debated Jews before a Jewish audience in Maryland 6th District last night.

    Candidates were asked, not IF US policymakers and tacpayers should support Israel, but HOW and how much.

    The sponsoring organization, a DC based Jewish something-something to perpetuate preferential treatment of all Jews everywhere forever, spoke of its ongoing program to “educate” public school children on Jewish issues.

    Blimey but I thought the Constitution forbade such preaching — or unapposable teaching — when & where supported by ALL taxpayers.

    • Replies: @renfro
  132. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:

    Seventies TIMES tell us the Washington DC based Jewish conference engineering the means of educating the American to a belief system that says ‘Israeli interest is American interest ‘ to safeguard American military commitment to Israel that was /or could have been threatened by anti- war mentality of American common folks .

  133. renfro says:

    Trump’s Jew of US Education has already started ‘re educating and punishing schools and students who dont worship Jews.

    ‘Trump’s nomination of Kenneth Marcus as Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Education. Marcus heads the Brandeis Center for Human Rights under Law and has dedicated the past decade to defining criticism of Israel and anti-Zionism as anti-Semitism.
    Marcus, who in 2011 founded the Brandeis Center with the express mission of promoting “the civil and human rights of the Jewish people,” has tried to silence students and faculty that advocate for Palestinian rights, notably by filing Title VI complaints against campuses that have successfully passed resolutions to boycott Israel. While none of those complaints had merit , he has continued to equate the movement to boycott Israel with antisemitism, casting free speech, criticism and nonviolent resistance as violations of civil rights.

    “Mr. Marcus has distinguished himself as one of the leading architects of an effort to malign any criticism of the state of Israel as anti-Semitic, and has served as a mastermind for the vilification of Muslim and Arab students in campuses across the country. This appointment should concern anyone who treasures the values of diversity, equality, and critical thinking in educational settings,” said Katherine Franke, Sulzbacher Professor of Law at Columbia Law School.

    Trump Education Department adopts controversial definition of anti ……education/…/trump-education-department-adopts-controve&#8230;
    Sep 12, 2018 – Trump Education Department adopts controversial definition of anti- … investigates allegations of discrimination against Jewish students, …

    Education Dept. Reopens Rutgers Case Charging Discrimination ……/rutgers-jewish-education-civil-rights.html
    Sep 11, 2018 – And it comes after the Trump administration moved the American Embassy … In so doing, the Education Department embraced Judaism as an

  134. APilgrim says:

    Jamal Khashoggi was a radical Islamic terrorist sympathizer & apologist. (IMHPO)

    Saudi Arabia ‘must go back to proper religious roots’, by Ali Younes, NEWS/MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, 23 Nov 2017,

    Veteran Saudi journalist and political commentator, Jamal Khashoggi, has said if Saudi Arabia wants to confront Iran, it must re-embrace its proper religious identity as a Wahhabi Islamic revivalist state and build alliances with organisations rooted in political Islam such as the Muslim Brotherhood.

  135. renfro says:

    Khashoggi Drama – A Deal Has Been Made But Will It Hold?

    ”A preliminary deal has been made between the Turkish president Erdogan and the al-Saud clan in Saudi Arabia. The case of Jamal Khashoggi, killed in Istanbul by bodyguards of the Saudi clown prince Mohammad bin Salman, will be closed for now.

    Over the last 36 hours, since Erdogan’s speech proved Saudi culpability, there have been no more damaging leaks about the case from the usual Turkish sources.
    During a podium discussion at yesterday’s investor conference in Riyadh Mohammad bin Salman denounced the “heinous crime” committed against Jamal Khashoggi. He praised the “unbreakable relations” with Turkey and lauded Qatar’s economic durability.
    The comments came after a phone call between MbS and Erdogan.

    The negotiations proved to be difficult. The Saudi King sent the governor of Mecca and Medina to make a deal:
    Prince Khalid al-Faisal returned home from Ankara with a bleak message for the royal family. “It is really difficult to get out of this one,” Prince Khalid told relatives after his return, one of those family members recalled this week. “He was really disturbed by it.”

    Early rumors spoke of a Saudi offer of $5 billion to burry the case. That was not enough.
    On Monday the NYT reported that Erdogan denied that he would make any deal of that kind:
    Mr. Erdogan, the person close to him said, recounted that a Saudi envoy, Prince Khaled bin Faisal, had offered a package of inducements for Turkey to drop the case — including financial aid and investments to help Turkey’s struggling economy, and an end to a Saudi embargo on Qatar, a Turkish ally. Mr. Erdogan has told associates that he angrily rejected the offer as “a political bribe,” this person said.

    Erdogan’s current source of money is Qatar, which is under blockade by Saudi Arabia and the UAE. Ending the crisis over Qatar was only one condition he set out to the Saudis. There are other issue related to Syria and more generally the Muslim Brotherhood.
    The Turkish side still has the leverage needed to ‘adjust’ any deal and to guarantee that the Saudis stick to it. The tapes of the Khashoggi murder, audio and video, have not been published. The former British ambassador Craig Murray reports:
    I have not seen the video from inside the consulate, but have been shown stills which may be from a video. The most important thing to say is that they are not from a fixed position camera and appear at first sight consistent with the idea they are taken by a device brought in by the victim. I was only shown them briefly. I have not heard the audio recording.

    If the Saudis try to cheat away from the deal the photos and audio tapes could still be released. They allegedly prove that MbS himself was very much involved in the killing.
    The U.S. gave the final push for a deal to fall into place. The CIA’s torturer in chief Gina Haspel was sent to show Erdogan her instruments. Murray writes:
    Haspel’s brief was very simple. She took with her intercept intelligence that purportedly shows massive senior level corruption in the Istanbul Kanal project, and suggested that Erdogan may not find it a good idea if intelligence agencies started to make public all the information they hold.
    Whether Erdogan held back in his speech yesterday as a result of Haspel’s intervention I do not know.
    Haspel listened to the audio tape and found it ‘compelling’.

    News coming out from #Turkey that President @RT_Erdogan is still hot on the affair, presenting a large list of demands to #SaudiArabia and the #USA, including compensation for the devaluation of the Turkish lira and support to #Qatar and #Egypt MB +

    #Turkey has received Khaled al-Faysal 4 times and was agreed to invest $30 bn in the country. In addition, there are tens of Fethullah Gülen in #SaudiArabia that #Riyadh will have to “deal with” to please #Ankara.
    Prince Turki bin Faisal, who was head of Saudi intelligence and Khashoggi’s sponsor, says that the family will stick to MbS no matter what. He claims that the royal subjects in Saudi Arabia support their ruler. Other reports from Saudi Arabia let me doubt that claim even as the reintroduction of a the yearly bonus to Saudi state employees may have calmed some people down.

    Today the Khashoggi issue moved from the frontpages of U.S. media. The amateurish bombs sent to several Democrat politicians yesterday have turned the news cycle towards a new issue. Is this just by chance?

    Erdogan still would like Mohammad bin Salman to be kicked away from the throne. U.S. pressure may have prevented that for now, but MbS has been cut to size. Congress will request a briefing by Haspel and the cintents of the audio may leak. It will continue to press the issue and, hopefully, end U.S. support for the horrible war on Yemen the Saudis and the UAE are waging with extensive British and U.S. help.
    Turkey will also have made demands towards the United States. Erdogan wants the U.S. to end the protection of Kurdish forces in Syria. Rebels supported by Turkey recently attacked a U.S. outpost in Manbij. The clash was soon over with no casualties but it demonstrates that the conflict is still simmering. What carrots did the White House offer him?

    It is likely that there is a deal and it may even hold. We will have to wait for more leaks to learn more of its details.
    But the strategic issues that were brought to light over the Khashoggi case have not vanished. MbS is unreliable and a danger for U.S. interest. He will want some revenge for the damage Erdogan caused to him. He will wait for a chance to hit back.

  136. Trump understands that the Saudis can seriously affect the economy via OPEC. Tomorrow.

    A 10 year old understands this.

    So of course he is simply going to do some glad-handing like cancelling a few visas.

    That will be the extent of it.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  137. anon[384] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes,the African slaves built the Sears Towers ,Space Needle , 911 WTC , Atlanta airport and the NASA Space center.

  138. @jilles dykstra

    Strange question. ISIS is the USA’s ally.

  139. @byrresheim

    Oh, crap! Now, whenever I use that quote (and I frequently do), I have to say something like, “As Talleyrand never said,” or some such confusing thing. I surely won’t remember it was Boulay de la Meurthe, and even if I did, readers would wonder, “Who the F— was that?”

    Are you some sort of sadistic prick who loves to spoil the fun for everyone else, byrresheim? (Just kidding, so don’t take it personally.)

  140. APilgrim says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    The USA is an energy exporting nation. We do NOT fear our KSA ally.

    The USA is a net exporter of: crude oil, natural gas, LNG, gasoline, diesel, aviation fuel, paint, plastics and MOST other petroleum products.

    The USA is still a net importer of: fertilizer, pesticides & insecticides due to government corruption, dating to the presidential administration of William Jefferson (Bill) Clinton. President Trump will probably soon restore health to the US Fertilizer mining & manufacturing industry. Potash mining near Carlsbad, NM is one prominent example.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  141. @APilgrim

    That must be why oil went up so high during the Obama admin. Watch Saudi send oil up to eight dollars a barrel.

    Trump knew it, of course.

    The Saudis were behind 9-11, more or less.

    Were they invaded?

    • Replies: @APilgrim
    , @NoseytheDuke
  142. APilgrim says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    The USA was an oil importing nation from the 1970’s until last year. From Richard Nixon, to Barack Obama, the USA was obliged to cooperate with OPEC, due to energy dependency.

    Brent Crude Oil Spot Price $80.45 USD/bbl
    WTI Price: 2018 Oct-22 to Oct-26 69.25

    The USA military occupies a LOT of nations, some as allies, some as conquests.

  143. @Jeff Stryker

    The Saudis were behind 9-11, more or less.

    Less. SA had a very minor role at the very most and that was so that they could be the fall-guys if the whole thing ever became exposed as a false-flag operation, which it was and it is becoming ever more exposed with every passing year.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  144. @NoseytheDuke

    “False flags” J behind 9-11. Sorry, I don’t by this theory or that Saul wired some explosives so the building collapsed completely. I think it was some fanatics with box cutters and flying lessons whose leader knew that Bush would then end up in Afghanistan for 20 years…it worked with the Soviets, didn’t it?

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  145. @Jeff Stryker

    Yes you are absolutely right because you are retard.

  146. anon[355] • Disclaimer says:

    I would like to ask Mr. Margolis Muslim sympathizer a question? Why is there no freedom in the Arab world? No democracy? No free press? No equal rights for women? Why is every Arab country in the world a basket case?

    • Replies: @anon
  147. anon[144] • Disclaimer says:

    This article will answer your question .

    Why the Arabs don’t want us in Syria
    They don’t hate ‘our freedoms.’ They hate that we’ve betrayed our ideals in their own countries — for oil.
    2/23/16, 8:50 AM CET
    Updated 9/16/16, 10:12 AM CET

    • Replies: @anon
  148. anon[355] • Disclaimer says:

    First of all you are not Eric Margolis. Secondly your article answers none of my questions. I might add the writer of said article was killed by an Arab terrorist.

  149. anon[355] • Disclaimer says:

    I would ask readers of this blog to please take note that Eric Margolis never did answer my questions about the utter lack of any freedom, democracy, free press, equal rights or progress in the dysfunctional Arab world.

  150. Sean says:

    Four hours ago.

    Saudi Arabia frees Prince Khaled bin Talal after months of detention.
    A Saudi prince arrested for criticising a crackdown on corruption is reported to have been freed from detention. Relatives of Prince Khaled bin Talal shared pictures on social media, purportedly taken this weekend, showing the prince greeting his family.The prince, who was held for nearly a year, is a nephew of King Salman. Prince Khaled’s brother, Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, was among dozens of princes and other senior figures held in a corruption drive late last year.

    The latest move comes amid intense pressure on Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman over the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

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