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Sam Francis and the Triple Melting Pot: Race vs. Religion, Part One
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“The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people.”

— Samuel Francis

American Renaissance Conference, May 1994

“In sum, the diminution and rupture of the human family and the rise of identity politics are not only happening at the same time. They cannot be understood apart from one another.”

— Mary Eberstadt, Primal Screams

It was sheer coincidence, which of course does not exist in the mind of God, that allowed me to take part in this year’s Arbaeen march organized largely by Iraqi Shi’a in Dearborn, Michigan. My opportunity to go on the real Arbaeen pilgrimage from Najaf to Karbala in Iraq to mourn the death of Hussein ibn Ali at the hands of the wicked Khalif Yazid had been thwarted by an unexpected surgery three years ago. Participating in the American replication of that march was more interesting from a sociological point of view because it allowed me to ponder one of the fundamental pillars of ethnic life in America, namely, the Triple Melting Pot. For those who are unaware of its existence, the Triple Melting Pot is “a metaphor that describes a pattern of assimilation in which various nationality groups merge through intermarriage, but with a strong tendency to do so within the three major religious groupings: Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish.” The Triple Melting Pot argues that “as immigrants assimilated into American culture, religious boundaries would replace ethnic boundaries as the main point of differentiation among people of European descent in the United States.”

In spite of the claim in the Pledge of Allegiance that we are “one nation under God,” America is a country of three nations or ethnic groups under God based on three religions, Protestant, Catholic, and Jew. Religion, in other words, is the source of ethnic identity in America. According to Will Herberg, the most famous popularizer of the Triple Melting Pot concept, America demanded that immigrants learn how to speak English “from the very beginning,” but “we did not really expect a man to change his faith,” because “almost from the beginning, the structure of American society presupposed diversity and substantial equality of religious associations.” Religion supplied the identity which was missing after the third generation lost its immigrant grandparents’ language. Unlike the foreign language which separated immigrants from their new American neighbors, “the old ethnic religion” was:

both genuinely American and a familiar principle of group identification. The connection with the family religion had never been completely broken, and to religion, therefore, the men and women of the third generation now began to turn to define their place in American society in a way that would sustain their Americanness and yet confirm the tie that bound them to their forebears, whom they now no longer had any reason to reject, whom indeed, for the sake of a “heritage,” they now wanted to “remember.” Thus “religion became the focal point of ethnic affiliations.… Through its institutions, the church supplied a place where children could learn what they were.…”

Herberg based his understanding of the Triple Melting Pot on an article by Ruby Jo Kennedy which appeared in the January 1944 issue of the American Journal of Sociology under the title “Single or Triple Melting Pot?” That article analyzed marriage patterns among large nationality groups in New Haven, Connecticut and found that “while strict ethnic endogamy is loosening, religious endogamy is persisting.” Catholics, Kennedy discovered:

married Catholics in 95.35% of the cases in 1870, 85.78% in 1900, 82.05% in 1930, and 83.71% in 1940; members of Protestant stocks married Protestants in 99.11% of the cases in 1870, 90.86% in 1900, 78.19% in 1930, and 79.72% in 1940; Jews married Jews in 100% of the cases in 1870, 98.82% in 1900, 97.01% 1930, and 94.32% in 1940.

After reviewing the data, Kennedy concluded that: “The traditional ‘single melting pot’ idea must be abandoned, and a new conception, which we term the ‘triple melting pot’ theory of American assimilation, will take its place, as the true expression of what is happening to the various nationality groups in the United States” and that this division “seems likely to characterize American society in the future.” After three generations in America, when the grandchildren of the first wave of immigration had lost the language of its forebears, the religious community becomes the “over-all medium” in which “remaining ethnic concerns are preserved, redefined and given appropriate expression.” Being a generic American wasn’t enough. Ethnic identity was essential because it answered the basic question: Who am I? Herberg points out that:

When an American asks of a new family in town, “What does he do?”, he means the occupation or profession of the head of the family, which helps define its social-class status. But when today he asks, “What are they?”, he means to what religious community do they belong, and the answer is in such terms as: “They’re Catholic (or Protestant, or Jewish).” A century or even half a century ago, the question, “What are they?”, would have been answered in terms of ethnic-immigrant origin: “They’re Irish (or Germans, or Italians, or Jews).”

This means that those who lack religious affiliation in America lack identity. As Herberg puts it: “Unless one is either a Protestant, or a Catholic, or a Jew, one is a “nothing”; to be a “something,” to have a name, one must identify oneself to oneself, and be identified by others, as belonging to one or another of the three great religious communities in which the American people are divided.”


Will Herberg died on March 26, 1977, long before Muslim immigration became a significant issue in American life, largely thanks to the 1965 Immigration Bill proposed by New York’s Jewish Senator Jacob Javits. The intention of the bill was to dilute European ethnicity, but the Jewish intervention into immigration also denied Muslims a place in the Triple Melting Pot. Herberg is adamant in insisting that “in order to be ‘something’ one must be either a Protestant, a Catholic, or a Jew” in a negative sense which excluded Muslims. Jews had a place at the table, but the church played the main role in “identity politics” in the 1950s, because “the church supplies a place where children come to learn what they are.”

Ten years ago, I attempted to make this point at a memorial service for the paleo-conservative thinker Sam Francis when I claimed that the culture wars weren’t fought along racial lines, but they were fought along ethnic lines. Sam and I were both “white,” whatever that meant, but we belonged to two different ethnic groups because ethnicity in America is based on religion. I then brought up the Triple Melting Pot and claimed that America far from being some unified nation inhabited by generic Americans turns out to be a lot like the former Yugoslavia, a country made up of three ethnic groups based on three religions, each engaged in a form of long-standing covert (and in Yugoslavia, oftentimes overt) warfare against each other. As I attempted to show in my book The Slaughter of Cities, one of the most common forms of warfare in both America and Yugoslavia involves ethnic cleansing.

I bring up the connection between Sam Francis and the Triple Melting Pot now because the posthumous publication of his book Leviathan and its Enemies has sparked renewed interest in his writings. Francis, according to an article by Matthew Rose in First Things:

was a pathologist of American conservatism, a movement he considered terminally ill even during its years of seeming health. As Republicans won five of seven presidential elections and took control of Congress for the first time in four decades, Francis saw a movement being assimilated slowly into the structures of power it professed to reject.

Unfortunately, Francis was unable to stop this inexorable process of assimilation, and so ended up writing “essays in small-circulation journals” like Chronicles, which:

applauded his attacks on globalism and his defenses of those he called, without irony, “real Americans.” But he won almost no access to major conservative outlets, where his views were denounced, with varying degrees of accuracy, as racist, chauvinist, and unpatriotic. Francis spent his last decade as an editor of far-right newsletters, having been fired by the Washington Times in 1995 for defending the morality of slavery.

Rose makes it look as if Sam Francis had no one to blame but himself for his demise as a pundit, but that was not the case. During a conversation I had with Sam shortly before he died, Sam told me that he had lost his post as columnist at the Washington Times because the ADL had issued a fatwa against him, and because William F. Buckley, editor and founder of the conservative journal National Review had gone in person to the editorial board of the Washington Times and demanded that he be fired.

So the story of Sam and slavery is one more example of the sanitized version of conservatism that First Things was created to promote. First Things was a Jewish creation, specifically intended to marginalize the paleoconservatism that Sam represented at magazines like Chronicles, then being edited by Tom Fleming, Sam’s friend from their graduate school days in the Classics department at the University of North Carolina. When we were on speaking terms (more on that later), Tom told me of a conversation with soon-to-be First Things founder Richard John Neuhaus in which Neuhaus threatened to “cut [Fleming] off at the knees.” Neuhaus did this when he founded First Things by hijacking a \$250,000 grant from the Bradley Foundation with the help of two Jewish accomplices, Norman Podhoretz and Midge Dector, the then reigning power couple of neoconservatism.

Herberg’s popularization of the Triple Melting Pot theory appeared in his 1954 book Protestant, Catholic, Jew, which rolled off the presses in the same year that the Supreme Court handed down its Brown vs. Board of Education ruling, which inaugurated the current wave of racial consciousness in America. But that was over the horizon of time in 1954. During the years immediately following its publication, Protestant, Catholic, Jew became a best-seller, garnering over 40 reviews in the year following its publication and dominating the discussion of ethnicity for influential figures like Nathan Glazer and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

Within a decade of its publication, however, sociologists were saying that Herberg’s analysis was outdated because it ignored race. Herberg ran afoul of both the universalists, who claimed that there was only a single melting pot and one undifferentiated American group, and the ethnic particularism of the sort defended by Michael Novak in his mid-1970s book The Rise of the Unmeltable Ethnics. “With the rise of race as a serious social concern, and with the defense of group rights and ethnic particularism, Herberg’s star declined.”

Schulz says that Herberg failed to understand that there was “a contested middle ground” missing from Herberg’s discussion of the Triple Melting Pot. Unfortunately, Schulz failed to identify what it was. Schulz failed to see that the missing “contested middle ground” is ethnicity.

Because of his background, Sam found any clear understanding of either religion or ethnicity problematic. Sam Francis was born in 1947 in Chattanooga, Tennessee at a time when the main ethnic indicators were racial. “Down South,” as Dorothy Tillman later famously stated, “you were either black or white. You wasn’t Irish or Polish or all of this.”

Sam came from a time and place that had little to no understanding of ethnicity as it existed in America. He was presumably raised as a Christian, but by the time he received his doctorate from the University of North Carolina in British history, he was a thoroughgoing materialist and skeptic, who drew his intellectual categories from Machiavelli in politics and David Hume in philosophy. Sam “accepted the materialism and secularism which lay at the basis of modern thought, rejecting the primacy of metaphysics and theology.” More importantly in terms of Francis’s intellectual development, he accepted modernity’s description of political life as “an unending contest for power, emphasizing the human appetite for power as our overriding social passion.”

The full version of this article can be found in the December issue of Culture Wars magazine and is available online at

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  1. Brown boi says:

    If you place blacks as Protestant and Brown immigrants as Muslim (nobodies)

    The structure still makes sense with Asians after blacks & whites in the Protestant category.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  2. SOL says:

    Interesting. Looking forward to the next installment on your dealings with paleocons.

  3. @Brown boi

    “Brown boi,” you must be Asian. Asians are nobodies. They are not Western and do not belong in the West. America only makes sense in Caucasian Christian terms. EMJ has no idea about ethnicity and religion. He cannot deal with reality.

  4. utu says:

    Will we get the full version of this article here at UR? A voice that does not “accept[…] the materialism and secularism” and does not “reject[…] the primacy of metaphysics and theology” is badly needed to counter balance the reductionist empty shell materialism of most writers like Sailer, Derbyshire, Thompson, Karlin and all the other less or more crass racialists who write for the UR.

  5. Daily reminder that EMJ is a race-blind ideologue who claims you can’t identify as White, you have to identify according to your religion. He also has some of the coldest of cold takes.

    Put aside the fact that Greece and Rome didn’t rise to greatness because of Catholicism – they did so when they were pagan – the notion that Europe is rich because of Catholicism is absurd. Latin America is much more catholic than Europe yet by and large is a third world mess. North-East Asia was never Catholic yet managed to build advanced societies.

    EMJ and Catholic ideologues have no answers here.

  6. On its face the “triple melting pot” theory seems dubious. How can Catholics & protestants on one hand be compared to Jew’s on the other?
    Catholic/ protestant are religious affiliations. Both are universal, in that anyone can take on such an affiliation.
    A Jew on the other hand is the opposite of universal. Indeed, “Jew” is difficult to even define — is it heredatory (passed from mother to child), is it a religion (belief/practice of the Torah & Talmud)? Or is it a culture, some kind of mixture of birth & belief? Or is it simply an identification & consciousness?
    The point is that we are comparing apples & oranges here.
    The other issue is that religious self identification from 1870 – 1940 was solid enough to construct such a theory as this, however since the 60’s (at various speeds) religious identification among Christians has been in steady decline (don’t know, but probably not the case with Muslim’s). Religion has become a condiment to the pot rather than the contents.

  7. biology exists. but for so many white nationalists biology becomes an excuse for having no culture outside of heavy metal and mountain dew. culture comes from religion and tradition. it does not come from primal drives and being a douchebag joe rogan clone.

  8. Ghali says:

    To call this formidable and intelligent individual teen, “mentally unstable little girl”, one has to be completely illiterate and ignorant of science and daily human-induced environmental disasters.

    • LOL: Alden
  9. James8902 says:

    The very presupposition of Herberg’s (a Jew) thesis is disingenuous. It actively denies the different racial/ethnic groups of Europeans/Whites and places them in an ether/or category with Non-Europeans; while at that same time ensures the uniqueness and separateness of Jews…

    Of course that was the idea, to mask racial differences specifically, as this is Jew propaganda written after the Brown V. Board of Education decision. The Jew wants his ethnic enemies to be disarmed and only identify with religion, while the Jew can remain a separate ethnic/racial group but play the canard that they aren’t a race, during a time when the Jews actively downplayed the ethnic character of their race/religion, Crypto-Judaism plain and simple…

    As for E. Michael Jones, well he should know better than to identify non-Europeans whether they are Protestant of Catholic with Europeans because they are not the same… that’s playing into Jewish ploys to attack your racial separateness and preservation. Protestantism and Catholicism as described in Herberg’s book can ONLY be identified as European identities, and for E. Michael Jones to not describe this is very strange indeed… Under that rubric only Jews are unique and no one else how absurd…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Nicholas Stix
  10. Dumbo says:

    This kind of make sense. Even though historically there were other groups such as Mormons, and now there are lots of (Buddhist?) Asians and Muslims and Latinos, and even trashy Hindus, the only three categories taken into account as relevant were (white) Protestants, Catholics and Jews. Blacks were a different thing even if they were in theory Protestant (and now are becoming Muslim?), brown Mexicans are not counted as Catholic (and they are converting to Protestant tele-evangelism anyway), many Koreans are also becoming Protestant, but the elite continues to be mainly WASP and Jew, with Catholics (Irish and Italian and a few others) in a second position.

    • Replies: @Really No Shit
  11. gotmituns says:

    No Nordic Europeans, including Slavs should be Catholics, The religion of “meekness” goes against the nature of those peoples.

  12. @utu

    I agree. It’s quite striking how the latest version of an ‘unbowed’ right throws off the defense of beleagured Chrisitian culture in order to focus on biologically-based racial advocacy, as if it were safer to sound like a Nazi than to sound like a Christian. Most of the Alt Right accepts the sexual revolution as a done deal and yet they find themselves railing at Transexual Liberation as if they had been suddenly made into Jerry Falwell clones. They need to give this tension some serious thought. Dr. Jones is right about the deep connection between the assault on religious mores and the assault on what is seen by the white nats as ‘white culture.’

    • Agree: utu, Nicholas Stix
  13. @Thulean Friend

    Conservative Christians often attribute the West’s success to Christianity (Rodney Stark has written extensively about this.) This ignores the fact that pm-Christian people of European stock, such as the Greeks and Romans, achieved great things while other Christians, such as Guatemalans and Rwandans, wallow in poverty, violence and primitiveness.

    The West would achieve regardless of her religion because the West is her people. But that would be racist to say that.

  14. DanFromCT says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Put aside the fact that without the vocabulary and conceptual tools of the Catholic Scholastics that you implicitly dismiss there could never have been modern science. Your cretinous insult is staggering given the art; architecture; music; philosophy; ethics (that allow your sort to live among us, or live at all); developments in legal thinking; the scientific method and all modern mathematics; universities; hospitals; modern medicine; the sanctity of life; welfare of widows and orphans, and the abolition of slavery. I could go on. As a matter of fact, science, which I assume you run to for cover, was stillborn in Ancient Greece and Rome in the pre-Christian era because of those civilizations views on the nature of the universe.

    But, thank you for reminding us that when the shtf we should extend to you and yours the curtesy of judging you by the hatred you have for us. And thank you for also pointing out that there is no longer any grounds for dialogue with you and yours since your disgraceful lack of gratitude toward the Catholic Church and Europe proves your bad faith. Your vacuous accusation also dishonestly insinuates the “view from nowhere,” as if there was an alternative to European history that, but for Christianity, would have been an earthly paradise.

    I hope others here will agree that in the future we should deal with you and yours in the same way your boy Lenin recommended dealing with Kautski:

    “Why should we bother to reply to Kautski? He would reply to us, and we would have to reply to his reply. There’s no end to that. It will be quite enough for us to announce that Kautski is a traitor to the working class, and everyone will understand everything.”

  15. Anonymous[140] • Disclaimer says:

    Herberg’s (a Jew) thesis is disingenuous.

    Well if you were expecting otherwise, you’d be disappointed by the overwhelming majority of Jewish theses.

  16. This was only about whites & no other races. Plus, Islam, whichever race, is nationally indigestible for any Western people.

  17. Dumbo says:

    Slavs are not Nordic. German Bavarians are Catholic and they’re doing fine. The problem of Northern Europeans is too much virtue-signaling and too much preoccupation with status. More humility would do them good.

  18. Hmm, can Protestantism and Catholicism co-exist in peace? I don’t believe so.

    • Disagree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Rich
  19. Dumbo says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Latin America is much more catholic than Europe

    No longer the truth. Major religion in South America now it’s Protestant pentecostal tele-evangelism.

    Recent numbers from this year in Brazil show that at least there Protestants are already a majority.

    Anyway, E. Michael Jones is wrong on this issue. Races and ethnicities also exist; people can have more than one identity.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  20. @utu

    Hopefully utu will now migrate here and stop spamming my blog.

    • LOL: Svevlad, AltSerrice
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  21. Hibernian says:
    @Thulean Friend

    The Catholic Church preserved the Greco-Roman heritage in Western and Central Europe.

  22. Herberg’s theory might have held some validity at the time — although I find it hard to believe that any serious person would have grouped blacks and whites together as “protestant”, even in the North — but it’s nothing but anachronistic now. So is E. Michael Jones, a relic of a time that ended before he himself reached maturity. What is his purpose now, exactly? An antiquarian?

    • Agree: Bill
  23. Hibernian says:

    The religion of “meekness” goes against the nature of those peoples.

    Then they shouldn’t be Protestants either.

  24. Ann K. says:

    Don’t you know that Catholics left the Church back in 1054? Jay Dyer at can educate you.

  25. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Science and engineering stagnated in Greece and Rome before Christianity. The Christian worldview was superior to the Greco-Roman philosophy in every way.

  26. @Thulean Friend

    North-East Asia was never Catholic yet managed to build advanced societies.
    Asian nations remained primitive and backwards while the Christian west outpaced them technologically, and the Asians had a centuries-long head start. Neopagans are just doing the Jew’s bidding by attacking the Christian European order.

    • LOL: Thulean Friend
  27. Johann says:

    The Teutonic Knights were Catholic monks as many other monastic orders were. The crusades were led by devout Catholic Knights. The religion of meekness developed in 19th century America when Protestants wrote the Social Justice creed and decided that the primary purpose of Christianity was establishing soup kitchens and campaigning ceaselessly for so called civil rights.

    • Replies: @utu
  28. Saggy says: • Website

    Discussing Catholicism, Christianity, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam, or any related religion as if they had some sort of intellectual validity is absurd. No one but a complete fool could take them seriously. And you don’t need historical or theological analysis to discover this, all you need to do is read the Torah, the foundation for all. I’ve been meaning make a collection of quotes but have been remiss… I have just two to demonstrate the nature of the Judeo/Christian god ….
    Samuel 1:15:1 (instructing king Saul)

    Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”


    Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the middle of you, and the sons shall eat their fathers; and I will execute judgments in you, and the whole remnant of you will I scatter into all the winds.

  29. @Dumbo

    Not real. Evangelicals have gained a foot in Brazil & some other areas, but they’re a minority (although a significant one) & will never become the majority.

    Simply, in Latin America, as elsewhere, atheism/agnosticism grows & people don’t care for any religion.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  30. You say that your Sam Francis defended the morality of slave-holding. How could he justify an immorality as morally justifiable? Assuming he was serious and his argument not put forth as a provocation.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  31. JDR says:

    You are white when juxtaposed with any other racial category. It doesn’t matter how someone self identifies. What matters is how you are seen by an other. The African will see your skin color, not your religious affiliation. America as a nation of “ideas” is a secular one. The religious affiliation is only relevant when dealing with the clear attack on Christianity by Jews. The war on white people includes Protestants, Catholics, and even the white cucks who take up Islam.

    • Agree: Anne Lid
  32. Rich says:
    @kerdasi amaq

    Vatican 2 ended the Catholic Church, which is now just another Protestant sect. Christianity itself is pretty much ended now, too. Birth control, homosexuality, pre-marital sex are completely accepted within most so-called “Christian” churches. The Catholics are dying to approve homosexuality but will probably be the last due to all those priests living in close quarters. There is no longer any major differences between the two groups, there may be a more conservative Protestant sect here or there, but on most major issues the two groups are the same. The overwhelming majority of Jews are secular with small sects of somewhat conservative groups, but very few. The one thing these three groups share, is Pale skin, and a fairly liberal outlook, for now. Southern Whites of all religions and inner city Whites who grew up around minorities have an identity, but I’m not sure if, in the end, the liberal-moderate suburban Whites will buy into any kind of solidarity with their fellow Caucasians. In other words, Religion in the West is officially dead, so Whites will either come together over race, or disappear as a people.

    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
  33. Is there no difference between a Black catholic and a White catholic!

    If none exist, Black catholics flocking to Europe are just like the White catholics living there, so intermarriage has no meaning, if race doesn’t exist, Dr. Jones. Wether the population is Black or White doesn’t matter as long as it is catholic. Which is obviously not true.

    Who would you prefer spending your life with, Dr. Jones, Black catholics or White catholics?

    Would you prefer living in a White neighbouring or a in Black one?

    Where would you send your children to school, to a Black catholic one or a White catholic one?

    Would you prefer marrying a Black catholic or a White catholic?

    What I think: people identify with people of the same religion, but also of the same ethnic group, and on a larger scale, with people of the same race, if it is the race that is threatened like it is at the present day. In prisons and high schools where large groups of people of different races are assembled, people assemble according to race.When French canadiens go to Florida they go to the same spots regardless of their religion.

    This division into religious groups is correct in a racially homogeneous country. When Herberg’s book was written, America was 90 % White. And if Dr. Jones’s book, Slaughter of the cities was inspired by Herberg’s book, it is obviously flawed.

    • Replies: @4justice
  34. Republic says:
    @Thulean Friend

    EMJ has many strong points,like his knowledge of the JQ but he is very wrong on matters of race,to him immigration of Mexicans is ok just because they are catholics.

    EMJ and Alex Jones had a first time discussion recently,worth watching

    • Replies: @4justice
  35. utu says:

    G.K. Chesterton on Tolstoy, Nietzsche, Joan D’Arc, and Jesus. (where Tolstoy may stand for do-gooder Protestants from your comment and Nietzsche stands for our neo-pagan HBDists friends)

    Joan of Arc was not stuck at the crossroads, either by rejecting all the paths like Tolstoy, or by accepting them all like Nietzsche. She chose a path, and went down it like a thunderbolt. Yet Joan, when I came to think of her, had in her all that was true either in Tolstoy or Nietzsche, all that was even tolerable in either of them.

    I thought of all that is noble in Tolstoy, the pleasure in plain things, especially in plain pity, the actualities of the earth, the reverence for the poor, the dignity of the bowed back. Joan of Arc had all that and with this great addition, that she endured poverty as well as admiring it; whereas Tolstoy is only a typical aristocrat trying to find out its secret.

    And then I thought of all that was brave and proud and pathetic in poor Nietzsche, and his mutiny against the emptiness and timidity of our time. I thought of his cry for the ecstatic equilibrium of danger, his hunger for the rush of great horses, his cry to arms. Well, Joan of Arc had all that, and again with this difference, that she did not praise fighting, but fought.

    We know that she was not afraid of an army, while Nietzsche, for all we know, was afraid of a cow. Tolstoy only praised the peasant; she was the peasant. Nietzsche only praised the warrior; she was the warrior. She beat them both at their own antagonistic ideals; she was more gentle than the one, more violent than the other. Yet she was a perfectly practical person who did something, while they are wild speculators who do nothing. It was impossible that the thought should not cross my mind that she and her faith had perhaps some secret of moral unity and utility that has been lost.

  36. @Dumbo

    You, sirrah, are a simpleton!

  37. A mixed bag. Actually, race & culture are more important now, in “fluid” societies. Judaism is an ethnic religion/culture, so it has its own rules & laws, unlike Christianity, which is universal religion.

    In the US, among whites, religious dynamic seems to be among various versions of Christianity, mostly Western (eastern types are not too numerous nor influential, even less than Mormons). Three big groups are mainline Protestants, Evangelicals & Catholics. Mainline & Catholics have much in common, while Evangelicals are something “off”.

    Judging by stats, Catholics are losing people to atheism & to Evangelicals, roughly in equal portions; on the other hand, they’re gaining the elite from other Christians (probably due to aesthetic, historical & intellectual reasons).

    So, among whites, I think that:

    * most groups will become less religious & more atheist

    * Jews, those who will retain their identity, will do it because of Israel & Auschwitz, not Torah & Talmud

    * Catholics will demographically bleed the most, due to the anti-modernity of the Catholic faith

    * but, they’ll gain the cream of converts due to the allure of Medievalism, history & high culture. It’s sexy Middle Ages

    * mainline Protestants will be numerially slightly better than Catholics, but not much

    * Eastern Orthodox will remain ethnic, and hence similar to Jews (with obvious differences)

    * Evangelicals will gain in numbers the most, but they’re without brains

  38. Dutch Boy says:

    There is some merit in Dr. Jones’s ideas but he should keep in mind that the current cultural assault is not just against Catholics but against white people in general. He does correctly assess that the assault is led mostly by Jews who, despite their skin tone, do not identify with other white people. In that sense, the current culture war is Jews vs. other white people, with non-whites used as the foot soldiers on the ground while the Jews manage the high level strategy.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @4justice
  39. EddieK says:

    “Down South you were either white or black”.

    This is exactly the future of identity throughout this country. White identity will continue to rise as whites are exposed to more and more groups of people that are diametrically opposed to them.

  40. Emslander says:

    You obviously have never spent a moment among Catholic adolescent boys growing up in the fifties and sixties, if you think Catholicism is the religion of “meekness”. In its current general apostacy in America it may refuse to stand for itself, but back in its golden age in this country, you’d better never had said such a thing while whistling past one of us.

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
    , @gotmituns
  41. Anonymous[940] • Disclaimer says:

    Interesting premise. Although it may have been accurate decades ago, I think it has lost some of its accuracy as organized religion has declined.

    My father was Protestant and my mother Catholic. When they got married back in the 60’s that was a big deal. ( So too was the election of the Catholic JFK).

    But as organized religion has lost its grip on much of America so too have these distinctions. In my generation there is extensive intermarriage between Catholics, Protestants, and to a lesser extent Jews.

    No, I think the biggest distinction in America these days is actually the urban/rural divide. That is the actual factor that defines flyover states vs coastal liberals, evangelicals vs liberal Christians and secular humanists, and to a large extent Republicans vs Democrats.

  42. 4justice says:

    We need to understand the triple melting pot to be able to notice that organized Jewry play a shell game – white when it is advantageous and not-white when that is advantageous. This allows the agenda for particular Jewish interests to be masked. No simplistic model can capture all the details of a complex society, but the power of this model is it helps us see how Jewish organizations and various agents have been able to profit from attacking “white” America while they increase in representation in positions of power due to their carefully cultivated victim status. There are overt agents of this effort such as the ADL positioning itself as arbiter of hate despite being a champion of not only hate, but genocide of the Palestinians. And subtler agents such as Noam Chomsky who poses as a universalist social critic, claiming that morality requires us to examine ourselves first, but carefully avoids ever highlighting Jewish criminality or culpability as Jeffrey Blankfort has documented. Howard Zinn rewrote US history to castigate white Americans – he accused the Missions of being death camps, but somehow the bankers get a pass (Andrew Jackson was nothing but an Indian killer, not revered for taking down the central bank) and of course the outsized Jewish role in the slave trade and slave ownership was never mentioned. Zinn’s book was promoted in the Hollywood movie “Goodwill Hunting.”

    Whatever the limits of this model or Jone’s take, we Americans who thought we were all “in it together” need to understand that some very powerful forces in our media, scholarship and financial system are still of a mindset to ask “Is it good for the Jews?” as they make policy decisions. White nationalists want us to say “Is it good for whites?” Maybe that agenda could be sold, but I doubt it. But in any case, we need to understand how we got to where we are before we can choose a path forward. I think it is an easy sell to say “Is it good for regular Americans?” as we point out the ways that various forces in our society have not been working for all of us. Christianity is being painted into a corner as a hate group due to its “intolerance” to homosexual marriage and transgenderism as a masked way to attack the Christian institutions that are perhaps the last organized forces that genuinely protect human rights, the right to freedom of conscience, and the respect for the sacredness of all human beings and their labor.

    I think it is enough to point out that those who put the Jews first have no right to determine our curricula, news and entertainment media, who can and can’t be on the internet, nor to train us to be “sensitive.” By pulling back the masks, we can expose this pattern and they will no longer be able to get away with it. There is a reason the ADL was run out of Watertown, MA and Israeli training of police was run out of Durham, NC. Once people see the full picture, the spell dissolves and it is no longer tolerable for the scam of actively genocidal Jewish Supremacists to have special oppressed victim status. It was a gamble to ride to power on the woke agenda – but as both Zionist Benjamin Ginsberg and anti-Zionist E Michael Jones have both documented extensively, Jews always fail to keep their agenda for control and power within sustainable limits.

    As long as the “white” identity is something that Jews can freely enter and leave as it suits their deception needs in their ethnic warfare agenda, I don’t see how it can work. A Christian agenda that promotes universal rights and protections, helps protect people from the blood sucking industries of porn, drugs, gambling, and most of all usury through love and respect seems to be a strategy that plays to the weakness of Jewish power. We can never outhate them. They hold grudges for literally millenia. (Some are still openly whining about “Rome” for smashing the temple.) We can’t out-trick them – they have been practicing wizardry and shell games way longer. But we can withdraw from their schemes and refuse to be sucked into hatred and vengeance. We can free ourselves by focusing on love of ourselves, our families and all who sacrifice and risk to serve others in our country. We need a love offensive and I know of no greater messenger of this weapon in the war against evil than Jesus Christ, but I continue to be open minded to other strategies.

    • Replies: @GPJ
    , @Danesovic
  43. @murray rothnard

    Nobody denies that culture is important. We just mock EMJ’s race-blind nonsense. You say we ignore religion, I say he ignores biology. How is that any better?

    Furthermore, even if religion is the basis of culture (I am skeptical), EMJ’s insistence that it has to be Catholicism rather than native European faiths is doubly suspicious. Why should I worship a desert abrahamic cult?

    Christianity “succeeded” in Sweden, where I am from, largely by co-opting or even outright capitulating to many folkish traditions. What we practice here in december is in many ways completely divorced from Christianity in any meaningful sense, from Lussi to Lucia to the “christmas tree” which is really a Germanic pagan tradition and has zero to do with Christianity.

    It’s not who we are as a people and I see no reason to LARP as a follower of beta male desert jew. Why not throw off the pretenses and become who you really are?

    • Agree: AaronB
  44. @attilathehen

    Both you and EM Jones are of the same race but you claim he can not deal with reality which tends to prove that “white” as an identifier is of little value.

    Now, compare a white protestant with a white catholic and think about the differences which far exceed the similarities.

    Ethnos requires Logos as Dr Jones emphasises

    O, and the catholic Church (Mit Brennender Sorge) condemns those who make race a main criteria for a country/nation/ideology etc

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    , @Bill
  45. Svevlad says:

    It all works fine until the Orthodox Christians arrive. That causes all previous participants to flip their shit, revealing their true colors

  46. @Hibernian

    Yeah, I guess Theodosius I’s deeds completely missed your gaze, among other enlightened figures. Christians did much to destroy native European traditions and even if we take the most charitable interpretation (written by Christians themselves), how does that change the conclusion?

    The foundational Greco-Roman heritage – central to all of European civilisation – was not and never will be Christian. Ever. So how can EMJ and other Catholic apologists claim that Catholicism was responsible for the rise of Europe when its foundations were never Christian? It’s a severe case of We Wuz Kangz syndrome, but for white people LARPing out someone else’s traditions.

  47. 4justice says:
    @Pierre Simon

    Racial divisions are promoted in prisons by the guards to keep the prisoners divided and thus more easily controlled.

    • Disagree: Herbert West, Poco
  48. Alden says:

    I’d write a comment about the infinite superiority of the extensive private catholic school grade and high school system plus the Lutherans and evangelical Christian school systems that expanded after school desegregation destruction but I’m busy

  49. 4justice says:

    Jones is not ok with open borders since he thinks it is for the purpose of ethnic cleansing and making it easier for the oligarchs to control people. Many in the Church are ok with the influx of Catholics to replace those who they have failed to retain, but Jones is not one of them.

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
  50. To Mr. Jones,

    You just scratched the story of Yugoslavia with Medjugorje deception, but you cannot make any parallels of religious melting pot of US & Yugoslavia.

    In order for you to understand Yugoslavia, you will need to know:

    1.Year 1439 and city of Florence, if you are honest,you will write a few words of what happened there.
    2. Catholic covert help to the Ottoman Empire against the Tribals/Serbs at the battle of Kosovo Polje year 1389.
    3. The difference between judeo-christian ortodoxy and original orthodoxy, hence the difference between the St. George protector of England and St. George protector of Russia.
    4. Year 1900 and converting of catholic Serbs into Croats by Papal decree.
    5.Year 1976, city of Vatican, Conference of Papal State, USA and Germany (Conclusions and actions, and todays results).

  51. Dutch Boy says:

    In those days, Catholics in this country were largely Irish and German in backround, neither group well known for meekness.

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  52. Dutch Boy says:

    California is the textbook case for this phenomenon. As the state has been Hispanicized, the grip of the oligarchs has tightened. There are many horror stories about California in the media and it has been made problematic for middle and working class whites but it is still quite a pleasant place to live if you have money (the rich people in this state are mostly left liberal). The Mexican voters send representatives to the legislature who do the bidding of the oligarchs, including their abortion and sodomite agenda, despite the alleged Catholicism of the legislators (and their voters). Those Catholics who support importing Hispanics don’t seem to be aware the the Church in Latin America is in even worse shape than in the USA, with regular mass attendance in the 10-15% range and a sodomite legislative agenda spreading over the area.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  53. 4justice says:
    @Dutch Boy

    Non-Jewish whites are not the footsoldiers of Jews – they are one of the groups targeted for destruction by Jews.

    • Agree: Zumbuddi
    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
  54. Dumbo says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You are incorrect. Bear in mind that this is a projection for 2032, but they are already almost 40%right now while the Catholics are going below 50%:

    There will likely NEVER be a majority of atheists/agnostics in Brazil. Most of its population is poor. Atheism is a luxury that most people (outside of the Post-Western bubble) cannot afford.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @BlackFlag
  55. gotmituns says:

    Correct sir. I was one of those boys myself. But I’m talking of how the religion has been highjacked and made into something that in no way resembles what we were in those days.

    • Replies: @Emslander
  56. Dumbo says:
    @Thulean Friend

    So which pagan gods should Americans worship? A mixture of Celtic and Germanic divinities, with a few Roman gods thrown in, and perhaps some Native American spirits to represent the original peoples?

    Most people in America (and even in parts of Europe) are mixed ethnicities, even when they are fully European DNA, so ethnicity does not seem the best for option for identity. And for America, it likely never was. That is why Americans instead of worshipping ancestors worship the Constitution and the Founding Fathers (even though they were anglo and probably did not expect that America would become the “melting pot” that it became).

    • Agree: EddieK
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  57. Alden says:

    Off topic The Golden State Warriors played a football game in Florida yesterday 11/30. Steve Kerr, White head coach arranged to honor Trayvon Martin’s Family at the game.

  58. Zumbuddi says:
    @Dutch Boy

    Two word response to Emslander & amendment to Dutch Boy:

    Jim Traficant,

    Catholic, Italian & Hungarian ancestry.

    Fiorello LaGuardia & Rudy Giuliani collaborate with Jews, but so did Edmund Walsh of Georgetown.
    The current dean of the school that bears Walsh’s name is Joel Hellman who has twitted that “We” [Who is We?] stand in support of OUR Georgetown Jewish students in the face of hate & ignorance.”

    Has Dean Hellman ever twitted support for German – and Irish – Americans against whom ADL has been promoting Hate for over 80 years?

  59. @Dumbo

    These projections for next 20 or 40 years are meaningless, as I’ve already said about numerous other issues. Protestants are now, if we are to believe the official stats, somewhere around 25% of Brazil; moreover, due to the “Hamburger” nature of Evangelicalism in non-European countries, nothing can be predicted about it- with the exception it is, sooner or later, bound to collapse entirely. This McDonalds variety has been seen in Korea, where much of its Evangelical movement collapsed due to corruption, hysteria & whatnot.

    It has no roots in history & is a transitional movement, like hippies & similar fads.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  60. E Michael Jones has no English ancestry and Sam Francis was of English colonial American stock.

    E Michael Jones has very little ancestral connection to the historic American nation.

    E Michael Jones is Irish and German and his understanding of colonial America and the historic American nation is from books, not from his blood.

    E Michael Jones should stick to his excellent work exploring the anti-White and anti-Christian ADL and its attacks on European Christendom. The ADL is evil and immoral and it must be dislodged from power everywhere in the world it appears.

    Young White Core Americans should read every word that Sam Francis ever wrote and they should be highly skeptical of the writings of E Michael Jones.

    The Irish and Germans were represented in colonial America and there were Irish and Germans who fought in the American Colonial Secessionary War From The British Empire, but it was the ENGLISH who provided the cultural and political atmosphere of the formation of the United States of America.

    God bless the Irish and Germans — I have some of that blood — but the English colonizers and settlers and pioneers of Sam Francis’s ancestors were the ones who created the United States.

    I wrote this in 2018 about Sam Francis:

    Sam Francis suggested that the managerial state is using mass immigration to create the conditions where political power is completely centralized and dissent is not tolerated.

    Sam Francis’s ANARCHO-TYRANNY concept is important to know about.

    Sam Francis was getting at the Hobbesian Leviathan scenario where a multicultural jurisdiction requires brute concentrated force to keep it together because the inherent ethnic antagonisms are so severe.

    Sam Francis in 2004:

    To have freedom on a stable political basis, you have to have a homogeneous culture and society, composed of people who share the same values and beliefs. If they don’t share them, you can hold them together only by force.

    Tweet from 2015:

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Sol
  61. @Thulean Friend

    The foundational Greco-Roman heritage – central to all of European civilisation – was not and never will be Christian. Ever. So how can EMJ and other Catholic apologists claim that Catholicism was responsible for the rise of Europe when its foundations were never Christian?

    Clueless. Greco-Roman heritage would have disappeared had it not been for Christianity; it simply wasn’t strong enough. Western culture is a blend of three elements: Greco-Roman heritage, Christianity & scientific-englightenment spirit of the 17th C & later.

    It’s trivial:

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  62. Sam Francis on ANARCHO-TYRANNY from 2003:

    …a definition of the system of government I have called “anarcho-tyranny”: a combination of anarchy (in which legitimate government functions—like spying on the bad guys or punishing real criminals—are not performed) and tyranny (in which government performs illegitimate functions—like spying on the good guys or criminalizing innocent conduct like gun ownership and political dissent).

    The result of anarcho-tyranny is that government swells in power, criminals are not controlled, and law-abiding citizens wind up being repressed by the state and attacked by thugs.

  63. @Dumbo

    That is certainly a very fair point and a major problem for mixed ethnicities like the Americans, who are very rootless as a people. I don’t have a ready-made answer. It’s a massive problem which rarely goes discussed.

    • Replies: @Giwu-Ger
  64. @murray rothnard

    You’re talking nonsense. You write as if your understanding of white American culture is taken from prime time network television.

  65. @Bardon Kaldian

    True, but without the Greco-Roman basis it is doubtful what kind of civilization would have arisen from Europe’s babarian past.

    At present, Christianity is in a similar crisis as was paganism in the latter days of the Roman Empire. What will take its place is anyone’s guess. Perhaps New Age spirituality?

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @Bardon Kaldian
  66. Hacienda says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    I would suggest Unitarians. Probably too cold-blooded for the world, but really impressive church.

    Jefferson was a Unitarian in theology if not in practice simply because there was no church where he lived.

    Pauling, Newton, Milton, Darwin…on and on.

    Just a heavyweight list of the good and mighty.

    • Replies: @Anne Lid
    , @4justice
  67. @DanFromCT

    “Put aside the fact that without the vocabulary and conceptual tools of the Catholic Scholastics that you implicitly dismiss there could never have been modern science.”

    Nonsense. Galileo would likely disagree as well.

    “But, thank you for reminding us that when the shtf we should extend to you and yours the curtesy of judging you by the hatred you have for us. ”

    I’m not seeing the suicidal Christian universalism that you and yours supposedly practice in that sentence. Perhaps you should take a moment to pray. But help me, is it this same Christian univeralism that leads NGO’s like Catholic Charities to facilitate the mass importation of savage hordes into the United States? Or is that just pure naked greed? Whichever it is, white Christian Americans have the Vatican as well as Corporate Christianity to thank for their continued efforts to destroy American culture with as said mindless universalism, reckless support of 3rd world immigration, granting homosexuals the opportunity to infiltrate the ranks of their clergy and subsequently embark on a campaign of Satanic sexual deviancy and buggery to be perpetrated on mostly white male children, the acceptance of barbaric Jewish inspired post birth genital mutilation of male Christian children.

    When the “shtf,” you can tell yourself now that humans will band together out of religious solidarity, but I seriously doubt that you, assuming you are a white person, will seek refuge at the nearest store front black baptist congregation for assistance in your own survival. Perhaps the local SPLC office?

  68. Dumbo says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Hippies?? You have no idea what you are talking about. I am not a fan of pentecostalism, but they have been expanding there for several decades, since the 70s.
    I think you know very little about Latin America.
    It will collapse and be replaced by what, then?

    Catholicism is still a middle-class religion in Brazil – for those who still practice it and are not in the agnosticism fad. But lower classes are and will likely remain Evangelical, of course with Brazilian syncretism – i.e. mixing some Catholic saints, some umbanda, and some other superstitions.

  69. Jones’ claims about WFB/Francis is horseshit. Never happened. Nor did Sam Francis ever make such a claim.

  70. Dumbo says:
    @Dutch Boy

    Many Mexicans and Central-Americans are no longer Catholic, but pentecostal Protestants, even those who live in the USA. There are many of those churches in Los Angeles, New York, etc, who cater to those Latinos. Catholicism is too high-brow for them. Even after (or because of?) the disaster of Vatican II.

    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
  71. Emslander says:

    You are correct, but wasn’t it those boys of the golden age who, stopping up the channels of God’s reproductive abundance, created the age of pampered, meek Catholic children? All the Irish, German, Italian, etc. Catholic families were numerous in the past and necessarily capable of defending themselves.

    When Catholics decided that their material well-being was more important than doing God’s will, the heart went out of the Faith in this country and many others. So, you raise pussy boys and you get perverts for priests.

  72. Dumbo says:

    I think it’s as silly to say that “Christianity was responsible for all that was good in Europe” just as it is silly to say that it was responsible for all that was bad or that it had no benefit whatever. It is what happened. It is pointless to argue what would have happened if it did not come around. I think it’s clear that it was mostly beneficial (until very recently – since Vatican II I’m doubtful it’s done much good). But historically the Catholic Church promoted several important changes, who even those who do not believe in the Church can ended up doing good (i.e.HBD Chick et al – prohibition of cousin marriage, reduction of criminal behavior, etc).

    As for he future, it’s unlikely that paganism will return in any case. It’s more likely that Islam will take over, in that case. But I’m pretty sure that Christianity will survive, even in Europe. Perhaps not in exactly the same form, but it will survive, o ye of little faith.

  73. Anne Lid says:

    An orthodox and a catholic had a talk on YT and one of them said: “… and Unitarians with their universalism, well, they believe in nothing”. So I don’t think it is a good religion for a people in crisis. Orthodoxy seems fine, and catholicism may renew from the bottom up.
    Then there are Protestants like Chuck Baldwin, far from the McDonalds evangelicals.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
    , @Anon
  74. @Franklin Ryckaert

    What ifs may be of interest, but there is something useless about them. We know that Christianity, which triumphed in Europe, has preserved, expanded & enriched old stuff & created new; Christianity without Greco–Roman heritage is authentic Semitic tradition, which can be seen among Christian Arabs & similar people. This is not Europe.

    And virtually all ancient iconography has been replaced with new: we simply, at emotional level, don’t care for Homer’s Greeks & find them distant. Whether we believe in the Christian myth or not, I doubt that anyone could seriously debate that people as different as Dante, Bach, Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Rembrandt,… are unimaginable without Christian spirit. With exact sciences issues are more complicated, but the idea of progress, which took hold strongly during the 18th, had no predecessors, either in the Antiquity or in classical Christianity. Just, it appeared in the Christian world.

    I don’t see that any existing religion can be powerful shaper of future; they will all, I guess, vanish in next 100-200 years. Islam is only biologically vital, but it’s basically fossilized & dumb; Hinduism is also a religion of infantile peoples; Buddhism is a waste of time. Christian religion is mostly dead & it is futile to try to revive it; but this is the fate of all religions of progressive & future-oriented peoples.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @montechristoff
  75. @Charles Pewitt

    E Michael Jones has no English ancestry and Sam Francis was of English colonial American stock.

  76. 4justice says:

    In my personal experience in the US, the Unitarians are dominated by those who reject Christ.

  77. DanFromCT says:

    Your dainty use of “perhaps” and rubber-gloved inclusion of “shtf” in quotation marks identifies you as the sort of poofter who’ll be found dressed as a woman and hiding among children.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  78. Peter Gemma says: • Website

    This story has made its way into the hands of some of Sam Francis’ closest friends and long time professional colleagues.

    The talk Jones references, which was controversial and caused quite an incident, was not at either of the two memorial services held for Sam; one in his hometown and one I coordinated in DC.

    Jones did speak at the launch party and symposium for my compendium of Sam’s little known essays and articles which included speeches and unpublished works. Sam’s family was gracious and generous in helping me access his personal papers. “Shots Fired: Sam Francis on America’s Culture War” was published in 1986 and carried a Foreword by Pat Buchanan and an Afterword by Joe Sobran. The room was packed with politicos, people who worked with Sam at the Washington Times, and his many fans. To the surprise of everyone who knew and worked with Sam, the publisher invited Jones to speak that day.

    I bring this up to set the record straight.

    Jones’s thesis that day was so far afield from anything Sam Francis ever wrote or even discussed among friends and colleagues, that the man was booed; three speakers, including myself, rushed to the podium after Jones spoke to clearly put distance between Jones’ rant and the professional and political legacy of Sam Francis. Jones’ religious zealotry was just the thing that Sam abhorred and laughed about in private.

    It’s painfully obvious to those familiar with Sam, some of whom worked with him from his earliest service on Capitol Hill and were with him until his last days, that Jones didn’t know Sam very well nor does he understand his writings. He’s simply using Sam as a platform to stand on to shout about his own worldview.

    One more thing: the assertion that Bill Buckley approached the Washington Times regarding Sam’s position there is pure fabrication. It simply did not happen.

  79. By the way, Sam Francis never wrote a column “defending the morality of slavery.” That’s a lie. When a Baptist convention sought to ingratiate itself with Left-wingers by denouncing slavery as a sin, Francis merely poked fun at them by quoting Biblical passages urging servants to obey their masters.

    • Agree: Matra
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @3g4me
  80. Dumbo says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I don’t see that any existing religion can be powerful shaper of future; they will all, I guess, vanish in next 100-200 years.

    Because you live in a sort of (I gather) intelectual bubble, you don’t realize that the world at large is much different than your bubble, and doesn’t give a fuck about your prognostications. Reminds one of that socialite who once said, “but I don’t know anyone who voted for Nixon”.

    Atheism/agnosticism is a temporary result of an even more temporary period of extreme material well-being, and even then, it still is not the choice for 90% of people in Latin America, Asia, Middle East, etc. Only Europe and some regions of North America really follow this trend. The rest of the world is still mostly religious and will likely continue to be, and since things are likely going to go bad at some point soon (no boom can last), expect religion to return sooner rather than later.

  81. @tyler kent

    Are Southern Baptists living in Alaska still considered to be Southern?

  82. Dutch Boy says:

    I cited non-whites as the foot soldiers.

    • Replies: @4justice
  83. Peter Gemma says: • Website
    @Peter Gemma

    “Shots Fired” was published in 2006, not 1986!

  84. BlackFlag says:

    I live in Latin America. Religion no longer has much influence on people’s thinking. I assume religion is supposed to provide purpose, hope, a moral code, and ethnic cohesion.

    We engage in vice (adultery, drinking, drugs, crime, lying, cheating) just as much or more so than the post-Christian West. People have no purpose and are almost exclusively interested in immediate entertainment. Nationalism is only seen in football

    I’d say this applies to 90% of the populations.

    But LA was Catholic for a good 450 years. How long to achieve logos?

  85. @James8902

    Then Jones, who agrees with Herberg, must be both disingenuous, and a secret Jew.

    You speak with a forked tongue.

  86. Dutch Boy says:
    @Peter Gemma

    Dr. Jones also reported that Mr. Francis had made a death bed conversion to Catholicism (it is said that the prospect of imminent death concentrates the mind wonderfully). Is that story false? The important part of Jones’s talk was that Mr. Francis had started to think about the implications of religion and not just race in our culture war (“Are Jews white”). Thinking along those lines allows one to do what so many conservatives cannot or will not do: name the enemy. Dr. Jones’s talk came after 50 years of Jewish-led culture war and a further several years of military aggression prompted by Zionist Jews, all abetted by conservatives. This cannot be accounted for by a racial reckoning (Jews being white) but by a revolutionary zeal prompted by Jewish anti-Gentile religion and culture. Dr. Jones has documented this Jewish revolutionary impulse extensively.

  87. @Dumbo

    The rest of the world is still mostly religious and will likely continue to be, and since things are likely going to go bad at some point soon (no boom can last), expect religion to return sooner rather than later.

    Future- extermination. Or food, like in Soylent Green

  88. “They’re Irish (or Germans, or Italians, or Jews).”

    This type of construction happens far too frequently; encouraging the idea of Jewishness as a racial characteristic.

    Substituting in a variation on the theme makes the point: if someone was to write

    “They’re Irish (or Germans, or Italians, or Muslims).”

    … it would be immediately noticed as a conflation of different classes of descriptor. On the other hand, ‘Arab’ wouldn’t be. A lot of Arabs (the majority?) are Muslim; however the majority of Muslims are not Arab.

    I guess that between (roughly) 1880 and WWII, ‘Jew‘ was a shorthand term for anyone from the hovels of Eastern Europe. Everything that people associate with ultra-Orthodox (furry hats, gefilte fish, latkes , Yiddish and so forth) are very specifically Eastern-European. It’s mildly amusing that the ‘Orthodox’ – who are almost exclusively Ashkenazi – get to use the term ‘Orthodox‘; they don’t even speak the same Hebrew.

    That construction “Irish (or Germans, or Italians, or Jews)“would not be used in Australia; it’s a very good example of how US views of different ethnicities are strongly-conditioned by proximity (which is reasonable enough I guess).

    OT: I watched “The Irishman” last night.

    Great fuckin’ movie – although one thing that really stood out (for me) was how simian the congregation looked at Ray Romano’s daughter’s wedding. It made De Niro’s “North of Napoli” Italian heritage really really obvious (his paternal grandparents were from near Campobasso, which is still terrone-land, but nowhere near as bad as further south).

    Back to that scene though: the old Veneto saying “Africa starts south of the Po“[1] sprang immediately to mind – along with the fact that the Bolsanezi think of themselves as Tyrolean, despise Garibaldi and think that the whole of Italy is ‘Africa’.

    And of course that scene from “True Romance“.

    So back closer to HBD-adjacent badthought: What do you think the ratio of Calabrese to Veneti would be for Septic Wops? (Oops… I mean “Wop-Americans”).

    I know that Yanks who take an interest in these things differentiate between ‘surname ends with a vowel‘-Italians (‘guineas‘) and others; is there a concept in the US of ‘White’ vs ‘non-White’ Italians as there is for Hispanics?

    Coz from that scene in The Irishman, there sure ought to be.

    [1] “Africa starts at the Po” is deliberately inflammatory, and is meant to denigrate Genoa and Firenze. Africa actually starts at Napoli.

  89. @Nicholas Stix

    You speak with a forked tongue.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  90. @murray rothnard

    culture comes from religion

    Hilarious – it’s got to the stage that organised religion has been so thoroughly discredited that it has resorted to “Well, we’re good for something“, even when their contribution to “something” was to retard it for 1500 years (until technology prised society from their parastic talons).

    Go back to LARPing your fictional Bronze-Age incel and his band of not-very-merry illiterates.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  91. E. Michael Jones is simply wrong. Race is the foundational of identity, not religion. That’s certainly always been the case in America going back to colonial times, when one was either white, red, or black.

    Of course Europe had wars between Catholics and Protestants but they could afford to, because everyone was white.

    And the Irish like Jones realized they were “white” when blacks moved into their neighborhoods. They found out that they had more in common with their white Protestant neighbors than blacks of any religion. Some Irishman right off the boat in 2019 isn’t going to move into a neighborhood full of Mestizo Catholics – he’d rather live in a white neighborhood regardless of whether his neighbors are Catholic or Protestant or atheist – as long as they are white.

    And Jones is also wrong about Jews. The problem is not that Jews became “revolutionary” “at the foot of the cross.” The Jewish issue is an ethnic issue. It’s an Ashkenazi problem. It’s straight up ethnic warfare spearheaded by an old fashioned ethnic organized crime mob.

    Sprinkling water on an Ashkenazi doesn’t make them not Ashkenazi. One would think Jones, who has written about conversos, knows this. So, he’s just bullshitting us.

    • Replies: @Catiline
  92. The notion that the divisions are religious in America rather than racial seems positively antique.

    It wouldn’t occur to me to care if the house across the street were bought by Catholics rather than Protestants. I definitely would care if it were bought by blacks rather than whites — particularly blacks with children.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  93. @murray rothnard

    “biology exists. but for so many white nationalists biology becomes an excuse for having no culture outside of heavy metal and mountain dew. ”

    You say that “so many ” WNs use that excuse for having no culture. Surely then,since you know that there are so many, you can name a few. You don’t even have to capitalize the names, since that concept is one you obviously haven’t mastered. Just name a few who might be recognized as WNs.

  94. @Bardon Kaldian

    You Sir are clueless as anyone else on this thread!

    1.Homer’s Greeks showed up in History in 800B.C. full 400 years after the Iliad and Odissey.
    So the main characters Hector, Patrocles, Achilles, etc, etc…. weren’t even Greek. We find this fact in Pisistratus’s order for translation of Homer’s Iliad from barbaric language. Who were those barbarians?
    2. Aeneas, after fall of Troy, fled west and founded a culture called today as “Etruscan”. You can find this fact in Dante’s writing. Today, if you go to Italy and hire a historical and tourist guide, s/he and all local linguists “would” not be able to transliterate the inscriptions left by the Etruscans. However, if you ask any child who grew up on Helm peninsula they will be able to translate to you word for word what is written.
    3. As far as Christianity and Semitism, both have descended from Vedic Orthodoxy, you can see that by what they profess and how they profess it. In Christianity you are forbidden to lie and rent interest, in Semitic religions you are forbidden the same within the same tribe, but you can lie and take rent from foreigners. In Vedic/Pagan cultures throughout Europe King was voted by public vote, in Christianity both Western and Eastern, the patriarch was crowning the ruler.
    4. Classical Christianity was put in people’s heads and hearts by sword and fire through genocide, especially in Germanic(Slavic) lands. It was a religion of love for only two centuries.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  95. @Anatoly Karlin

    Just ban him like you did me, after I made one comment poking fun at you. You take yourself too seriously, kid. BTW, has anyone ever told you how ridiculous you look in that photo with the sword?

    • Replies: @Biff
  96. Your chosen variety of JewGod Sky Fairy overrides your genetic programming huh? Must be why American negroes, among the most ardent followers of the Sky Fairy, are so incredibly civilized, well educated, successful, and law-abiding.

    Honestly, sometimes I think Ron is just trolling us by republishing this kind of infantile dreck. I even saw in a comment above that the author wrote on Twitter (sure proof he’s an infantile Twit) that he believes an African negro who moves to Poland, learns the language, and goes to Mass is now, magically, Polish. Why not? If you believe in magical JewGod Sky Fairies then negroes can be Chinese, Russian, hell – I bet they could even FLY if Sky Fairy commanded…

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
  97. @Anonymouse

    E. Michael’s criticisms of Sam Francis are like a teacup chihuahua yapping at a Rottweiler, after the Rottweiler dies. You’re right to question the way he characterizes Francis’ writings.

  98. @Hibernian

    Oh, for fuck’s sake, this hackneyed bullshit again.

    The Catholic Church did literally everything in its power to suppress anything that ran contrary to their retarded book of primitive drivel. They even slaughtered people who believed most of the silly stories, but differed on whether or not some grifters should live in palaces (e.g., Arianism; Catharism).

    The people in charge of Catholicism even wrote down that this was their express intention: if you are unaware of the relevant material – from Tertullian onwards – then you’re just ignorant (which is how the church likes to keep people).

    But for Catholicism, humanity would have had CALCULUS by the 2nd century. They had copies of Archimedes’ “Method“, and they ‘repurposed’ them to make copies of their Bronze-Age fanfic nonsense.

    Roman engineering science was basically lost; a thousand years of Greek scientific knowledge of astronomy, geometry, medicine and philosophy sacrificed because it disagreed with some nonsense in a book of fan fiction by a guy infatuated with a fictional first-century beta-male.

    There’s a very good reason why the Renaissance has that name; it was a re-birth of classical ways of approaching the world. Want to see what religious hegemony does to art? Compare art from the height of Catholic hegemony, to art from classical Greece or Imperial Rome: the former is like retarded kids’ finger-painting. Michelangelo’s “David” is not ‘Christian’ art – it is the rediscovery of classical art.

    Likewise the Enlightenment had nothing to do with your book of primitive drivel, except to the extent that Enlightenment principles repudiate most of the drivel.

    Last but not least: the other name for the Englightenment is the (dawning of) the Age of Reason. That is a very, very specific rejection of the idea that it’s a good idea to go around with the mindset of a Bronze Age Levantine tribal peasant, or to accept the idea that a guy in a dress who lives in a palace is ‘infallible’ about anything whatsoever.

    Those two historical periods were the sine qua non of the Industrial Revolution, and hence of modern society. We were lifted out of almost 2 millennia of stagnation – in living standards and life expectancy – be men who hewed to Renaissance and Enlightenment principles, not by people who placed their ‘faith’ in LARPing an incel mystic-reviolutionary from 1st century Palestine.

    And theEnlightenment got zero positive contribution from your guys in frocks, who saw a risk to their grift. They fought against it, tooth and nail. They set people on fire (while they had the power to do so).

    Part of my adamantine hatred of religion stems from the very specific, very deliberate, retardation of scientific progress wrought by those pricks, who were more concerned with maintaining their palaces at the expense of the laity, than they were about Truth (universal or otherwise).

    They set people on fire for writing stuff that was scientifically valid, and here you are claiming that they ‘preserved’ key parts of humanity’s classical patrimony.

    You’re a primitive, ignorant savage. Thankfully you’re in a dwindling minority who are being put into the ground at a much higher rate than they’re being produced – even taking into account their attempts to indoctrinate illiterate peasants in the Third World (like cigarette companies, they know it’s the only place left on Earth that they can hope to find people ignorant enough to become customers).

  99. Try to learn something more

    By the way, why don’t you try a bit more serious stuff on these matters.


  100. @montechristoff

    This has nothing to do with what I’d written before. Most, all people are clueless about Western cultural history.

    • Replies: @montechristoff
  101. Catiline says:

    White subracial biological-linguistic-cultural amalgamation suggested by the emperor’s words (the dubious strategy subsequently implemented without deliberation by America in the early 20th century)

    Dubious strategy. Note that well. The assimilation of different European types into White America is implicitly opposed by the National Alliance, since they are giving a forum to Andrew Hamilton in this regard. That’s a truth you can’t avoid, Strom. So, tell us Kevin – given the hardcore Nordicism that is at the core of the National Alliance, and certainly was the foundation of Pierce’s worldview, and that is implicitly endorsed by the current incarnation of the National Alliance, why should any so-called “White ethnics” support you and your organization? That’s not merely a rhetorical question. That’s something you should be asking yourself. After all, no one is forcing you to give Hamilton a forum. That’s your choice.

    Jones is undeniably an idiot. But to distort and mangle an apothegm, even idiots have enemies.

    • Replies: @Charlie Baud
  102. @DanFromCT

    LOL that’s what I thought. Another bible thumping hypcrite identifies.

    • Replies: @George Gent
  103. 4justice says:
    @Dutch Boy

    Het spijt me, Dutch Boy.
    I misread – you never said whites were the foot soldiers. I agree non-whites are the proxy warriors inside the US, but they are also targeted for destruction. American soldiers – white and non-white- are used to wage a clash of civilizations between Christian societies and Islamic ones for the Neocons and other Zionist manipulators despite both communities being targeted for destruction.
    Again, sorry.

  104. @Dumbo

    Atheism/agnosticism is a temporary result of an even more temporary period of extreme material well-being

    What self-serving nonsense. Like anarchism, atheism has been with us for as long as smart people have indentified grifters as grifters.

    Atheism and agnosticism have their roots in Classical antiquity – the Classical thinkers that Christianity successfully suppressed for almost 1500 years.

    Xenophanes (6th century BCE) wasn’t entirely atheist, but he recognised that “if cattle and horses had hands… they would paint gods that looked like themselves‘ (noting that Nubian gods were black and snub-nosed, while Thracian gods were red-haired and pale).

    Bias appears to have had some very agnostic leanings (although one of his famous sayings “Speak of the gods as they are”, implies that there are gods; his best one is πλεῖστοι ἄνθρωποι κακοί – pleistoi anthropoi kakoi… “most men are bad“)

    Over the next couple of centuries things got a bit clearer:

    Euripides and Aristophanes (5th century BCE) put atheist words in the mouths of their characters, non-ironically.

    Diagoras and Theodorus (5th/4th century BCE): definitely atheist.

    Euhemerus: more agnostic than atheist.

    Prodicus: more atheist than agnostic.

    Protagoras :definitely an agnostic.

    The Sophists more generally didn’t reject the existence of gods, but thought that gods were deified representations of historical figures.

    The Epicurians didn’t reject the existence of gods, but they rejected the ideas of
    • gods that interfere in human lives;
    • the existence of an afterlife; and
    • divine post-mortem punishment.

    Lucretius (1st century BCE): arguably agnostic, but wrote a defense of atheism. He also thought that the mind and the soul were just arrangements of atoms (he also believed in survival of the fittest, but not in incremental evolution).

    And that’s without touching on Chinese philosophy, which has been atheist or mostly-atheist since the Han dynasty. Shenism (the predominant folk religion) is basically an admixture of ancestor-worship and ascription of intent to natural phenomena; it’s not ‘atheist’ or ‘agnostic’ but it’s barely a religion.

    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
    , @Dumbo
  105. anonymous[222] • Disclaimer says:

    When non-Jews refer to Enlightenment, are they talking about something quite different from Jewish Enlightenment (Haskalah movement)? Haskalah emerged around mid- to late-1800s in Eastern Europe, if I’m not mistaken.

    Does Newton’s questioning of the primacy of the Church as authority for the First Premise in a logical argument mark the beginning of the “Christian” enlightenment? Newton was mid-17th century to around 1725.

    Weren’t Jews still locked under their rabbinic, corporatist systems in Western Europe — at least until 1789 — and even less intellectually developed in Eastern Europe until mid-1800s?

    inquiring minds wanna know. dumb guys wanna know.

    • Replies: @Poco
  106. @Bardon Kaldian

    “We know that Christianity, which triumphed in Europe, has preserved, expanded & enriched old stuff & created new; Christianity without Greco–Roman heritage is authentic Semitic tradition”

    “ Clueless. Greco-Roman heritage would have disappeared had it not been for Christianity; it simply wasn’t strong enough. Western culture is a blend of three elements: Greco-Roman heritage, Christianity & scientific-englightenment spirit of the 17th C & later”

    The whole of Greco-Roman mythology is a work of art of theft and borrowings(pillaging) with Christian clergy at later times at the front row. You can see that in Rügen(Rujan).
    By the way, where is Helm and what is Homer’s real name?

  107. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Galileo thought the tides happened one per day at the same time every day and berrated anyone who disagreed. He was on trial for demanding scripture conform to his unproven theories. But retards like you only know the cartoon version of history.

    • Agree: utu
  108. @MikeatMikedotMike

    “Stop using mean words! Hypocrite!”
    Atheists are such fags.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  109. @Thulean Friend

    Because something can rise above it’s foundations?
    Greco-romanism without Christianity is just witchcraft. Augustine rescued it. If anyone’s LARPing, its the eannabe vikings on here.

    • LOL: Thulean Friend
  110. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Guatemalans and Rwandans haven’t had the benefit of centuries of Benedictine social teaching.

  111. anon[377] • Disclaimer says:

    Unz review is really getting tiresome, it seems as long as it’s antisemitic, any nonsense will get published, even this cucked Catholic crank Jones who belongs in a museum.
    imo Unz review is too exclusively focused on Jews, there should also be some contributors exposing the evils of the Catholic Church (especially its lobbying for African mass immigration to Europe) and of Muslims (a high-quality deconstruction of Islam would be welcome).

    • Agree: RVBlake
    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
  112. @Nicholas Stix

    (((NIcholas Stix))), you’re a Jew with an East Indian wife from Trinidad and Tobago. You are not a Western male and have no clue about the West and Christianity.

    EMJ is not Jewish.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  113. @Thulean Friend

    A neo-pagan accusing someone else of LARPing? Now that’s rich. Even funnier is it’s some snow nigger trying to take credit for Greco-Roman civilization. Tell me, what is the way forward for Odinists? Living off welfare and making Youtube videos like Varg? Or is it sodomizing each other in the woods like Jack Donovan?

    It was not until St. Benedict that the Germanic people became something more than barbarians.

    “All great cultures that witnessed a stillbirth of science within their ambience have one major feature in common. They all were dominated by a pantheistic concept of the universe going through eternal cycles. By contrast, the only viable birth of science took place in a culture for which the world was a created, contingent entity.”
    Stanley Jaki, Science and Creation: From Eternal Cycles to an Oscillating Universe (Edinburgh: Scottish Academic Press, 1974), p. 357; quoted in Nickel, p. 143.

    “We must also observe that in one of those strange permutations of which history yields occasional rare examples, it is the Christian world which finally gave birth in a clear articulate fashion to the experimental method of science itself.”
    Loren Eiseley, Darwin’s Century (Garden City: Doubleday and Company, 1958), p. 62, quoted in Nickel, p. 143. Eiseley (1907-1977) was an evolutionary anthropologist.

    The foundational Greco-Roman heritage – central to all of European civilisation – was not and never will be Christian.

    Another neo-FAGan who’s never heard of Byzantium. Christianity saved the West from stillbirth, a stillbirth that infected the “advanced” societies of China, Japan and Persia.

    • LOL: Thulean Friend
  114. @anon


    • Replies: @anon
  115. I LOVE E Michel Jones despite, or perhaps because of, his Catholic blindness to race differences.
    We have plenty of people on the Dissident Right who are hip to race but many of these same people are blind to the way Judeo Protestantism has undermined the euro white gentile consensus on wariness of the Jews that once existed widely before the second Word War. Catholicism is nearly always ignored or given a bad press within the anglo Jewish sphere because traditional Catholics particularly knew the Jew. Protestantism – really Calvinism and especially the English version – was a relapse into the Hebrew Bible with its vulgar materialist implications This is why the WASP neo liberal elte with its roots in English Puritanism =Judaism 1.0 = hooked up with organized Jewry to malign fascism in the 30’s when Catholics were significantly more likely to be at least indifferent and maybe even skeptical or sympathetic to the supposed great fascist threat. It is Michael Jones who tells this story, not Kevin MacDonald. Jews hate Christianity but they have a special animus toward Catholicism which is shared by Protestants who will jump to embrace Semophilic portrayals of the Catholic Church. Jones gives us histories which are cleansed of this knee jerk anti catholicism. After that Jones is all off the wall universalism but those of us who were Catholics can read Jones the historian with discrimination and ENJOY him

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Alden
  116. @Catiline

    Jones is undeniably an idiot.

    How so? He’s given clearer, better-explained answers than the LARPing pagans and atheists on here who can’t explain why the decline of the West happened at the same time as the rejection of Christianity.

  117. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Nonsense. Galileo would likely disagree as well.

    “When atheists want to insist all religious people hate science, they often invoke Galileo – due to his place as arguably the first modern scientist, we have talked about Galileo a lot here (1) but we are not in the bag for any agenda except science so we are not carefully scrubbing reality to match cultural spin, even when it comes to legends. What gets lost in the cultural noise is that the hardest people on Galileo were fellow scientists; they had every right to doubt his work, by his method the tides only happened once a day, and at the same time every day. If you think denying climate change is bad, well, Galileo denied the existence of the Moon. Every illiterate sailor in the world knew better, as did every kid living near the water, but Galileo attacked everyone who pointed out his math was wrong – like Kepler. Catholics were not against Galileo, the Pope encouraged him to write his famous book, he wanted a good argument for Copernicus, he even helped pick the title. But Galileo insisted on being a jerk to everyone – so he got a cushy house arrest. During the Inquisition. Yeah, sorry, but that was not Catholics being against Galileo or it would have gone a lot worse.”

    I’m not seeing the suicidal Christian universalism that you and yours supposedly practice in that sentence. Perhaps you should take a moment to pray. But help me, is it this same Christian univeralism that leads NGO’s like Catholic Charities to facilitate the mass importation of savage hordes into the United States? Or is that just pure naked greed? Whichever it is, white Christian Americans have the Vatican as well as Corporate Christianity to thank for their continued efforts to destroy American culture with as said mindless universalism, reckless support of 3rd world immigration, granting homosexuals the opportunity to infiltrate the ranks of their clergy and subsequently embark on a campaign of Satanic sexual deviancy and buggery to be perpetrated on mostly white male children, the acceptance of barbaric Jewish inspired post birth genital mutilation of male Christian children.

    Yet another atheist retard blaming Christians for the work of Jewish infiltrators. Of course the church has been compromised, same as any other Western institution, but this is an abnormality and can easily be set right. Christians are far more nationalistic and opposed to immigration than atheists. The most nationalistic European nation right now is Catholic Poland, while secular states do all that they can to accommodate invaders. You also ignore the fact that Christianity maintained ethnic homogeneity and kinism for centuries before the great subversion. But now, you people want to throw away the Church that sustained and built us. You want to complete the work of the Jews.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  118. Hibernian says:
    @Colin Wright

    It wouldn’t occur to me to care if the house across the street were bought by Catholics rather than Protestants.

    I’m old enough to remember when at least a few people did care about this.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  119. @Thulean Friend

    I thought Christianity destroyed your traditions? Now it turns out it merely co-opted them. You seem pretty indecisive on the matter. Regardless, you say Christianity has nothing to do with them because they have been deliberately dechristianized, or because you are obscuring the considerable Christian influence in Swedish history.

    The Christmas tree was never pagan.

  120. @George Gent

    I’m not an atheist. But keeping lending support and money to the organizations working to replace you with Africans and grant homosexuals access to your children.

    • Replies: @George Gent
  121. @attilathehen

    Of course, I’m a Western man. About you, I have my doubts. And I probably know more about the West than you–a lot more.

    “EMJ is not Jewish.”

    I see logic isn’t your forte.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  122. @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    When EMJ babbles about ethnicity, he is babbling about a subset within a specific racial category. There are 3 racial groups: Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid. Europeans are subsets in the Caucasoid caetorgy, i.e., German, Italians, Spaniards, Russians, etc. Lebanese and Syrian Christians are Caucasians. Chechens are Caucasians. In the Mongoloid category the subsets are the Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, etc. In the Negroid category there are the blacks in the New World and the tribes in sub-Saharan Africa. Most of present day North Africans are black.

    Caucasoids have the highest IQs and are the race of the West. The West is the best civilization ever. In Asia, the Japanese are the only intelligent Asians. Mongoloids are second tier in IQ. Negroids are the last in IQ. EMJ is correct in saying that “white” has no real meaning. It is better to identify as Caucasian and then the subset in this category.

    EMJ babbles that Ethnos needs Logos. Logos is related to IQ. EMJ refuses to talk about IQ and its relation to race. A person (regardless of race) needs an IQ of 90+ to function and be successful. We can see that Negroids have the lowest IQ because they have contributed nothing to civilization. The Japanese were only successful because they were forced to open their country to Western industrialization. Except for Japan, Asia is shithole.

    You are correct that the RCC is race blind. One must distinguish between biology and beliefs. Christianity is a belief and can be changed. Biology is destiny. A person with a low IQ can never increase their IQ. The RCC needed a good biology in order for it to form. Christianity started in the Middle East when the original people were Caucasoids. The Apostles were instructed by God to go to Greece, and not Asia or Africa, to preach the Gospel. Caucasoids are the chosen people. For the first 2000 years, the RCC was a Caucasian/European institution. However, because of its universalism, it is now preaching in Asia and Africa. Diversity has collapsed the RCC. The Orthodox Church with their racial/ethnic churches will be the future. I was a cradle Catholic who left the RCC because I don’t accept black/Asian priests-popes.

    I am grateful for the RCC. It has produced the greatest music, art, and architecture. While the ancient Greeks and Romans were very smart and created great civilizations, it was the RCC that really helped them to blossom. Going back to paganism will not work. But the RCC will not work in the West anymore. The RCC worked when it was a Western institution. Since Vatican II, the RCC is now predominantly black/Asian. Blacks/Asian do not have the IQs or biology to maintain the RCC developed by Westerners. They must have their own churches. EMJ refuses to deal with this reality.

    Also, he is a sophist when it comes to the Jews. He will ask “are Jews white?” It depends. I put Askenazi Jews in the Caucasoid category. However, present day Jews are not related to the Jews of the Old Testament or when Jesus lived. Present day Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians so the Ashkenazi Jew is disappearing. Also, Jews are not Christian and their belief system is not compatible with the West. Present day Jews are not a Western people. They have a country – Israel.

    Here is a comparison of what Christianity can and cannot do. Black Haiti and Amerindian El Salvador have been RCC for hundreds of years. The average IQ in Haiti is 67. The average IQ in El Salvador is 83. These countries are shitholes. The Utah Mormons are in the Caucasian category, are mostly of English descent, and have an IQ of 105. Pick the best of the 3.

    The West is not black/Asian/Jewish/Muslim.

    • Replies: @Bill
  123. Sol says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Mr. Jones grew up in a civic nationalist America, not as a member of one of the original American peoples.

  124. utu says:
    @Viktor Templeton

    You should know that Thulean Friend person is not really Swedish. He most likely is from India. This perhaps can shed some light on why he takes that strong anti-Christian position. And that the notorious Jewish huckster troll AaronB came out of woodwork to support him is another clue.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  125. @Dutch Boy

    I don’t buy deathbed conversions. The patient is in an extremely weak state, easily open to suggestion, and there are certain Catholic priests who are expert at conning the dying into converting (recall John Wayne), and who stalk hospital halls. They tell themselves they are doing it for God’s greater glory, but I think it’s about their own egos. In any event, I don’t see how God could glory in the dying being dragooned into the Mother Church.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  126. Sol says:

    Even if that religion is the worship of the powers of this world, coupled with human sacrifice, it won’t be atheism.

  127. utu says:

    “You’re a primitive, ignorant savage. ” – Is it Maori in you talking? Do you still have cravings for the human flesh?

  128. anon[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @Viktor Templeton

    lol, Cath cuck, you’d better tone down your antisemitism, king of Catholics in Rome has said it’s sinful. You’ll end up in hell or purgatory, if you continue with it.

    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
  129. @Viktor Templeton

    I want to place Christianity at the center of organizing a society, but Christianity as it has evolved to in 2019 seems incompatible with race realism. And without race realism the West will continue to die. And most Christians are incapable of grasping that peril and too easily retreat to a vague commitment to prayer: divine intervention rather than grasping the issue of race.

    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
  130. @Hibernian

    ‘I’m old enough to remember when at least a few people did care about this.’

    I’m old enough as well. It may be an East Coast versus West Coast thing.

  131. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Though what we call “civilization” –with apologies to the civilizations of China and India–was birthed between the Tigris and Euphrates and the shores of the Nile, but the cradle of WESTERN was in Greece and Rome. Christianity, especially in the form of the Irish monks, would carry the fruits of Greco-Roman civilization throughout the rest of Europe. The rest, as they say, is history–a history that looks to be slowly drawing to a close.

  132. @Charlie Baud

    I’m not an atheist, but that is clearly the lazy assumption for members of any religious group who have no interest in addressing the problems within their own organization. The Catholic Church is in decline, and continues to sell out its faithful for a few shekels. The blame lies among its leaders, as well as its mindless acolytes. Instead of throwing childish insults at legit criticisms, why don’t you march down to your local diocese and demand to know why they continue to subject your children to faggotry and use the money you donate to them to import negroes to rape your women?

    • Replies: @Charles Baud
  133. @utu

    I keep asking , but you refuse to answer: Where do you live?

  134. @Houston 1992

    What are you talking about? Christians are the most likely to support ethnic homogeneity and anti-immigration measures. Ever notice how the “race realist”/HBD crowd that likes to pin the decline of the West on Christianity is full of philo-semites with yellow fever or non-white spouses/girlfriends. John Derbyshire bemoans the Christian influence on society then says we need the Jews to survive and make a better world for his half-breed children. Freed Reed blames the blacks but then says we need to interbreed with the Mexicans. HBD is inconsistent and meaningless.The traditional Christian understanding of ethnicity preserved European character for centuries and can still do so. We just need to clean house in the church like every other Western institution. Fortunately, Bergolio has been such a lousy Pope that he’s inadvertently alerted more people to the problem.

    • Replies: @utu
  135. @anon

    Good thing he’s not the final authority on the matter.
    Romans 11:28-30

    • Replies: @anon
  136. @Kratoklastes

    Atheism has always been an anomaly that has arisen in times of decline from Antiquity to present day. It is w holly unproductive and destructive system that can never do more than tear down what came before it. Ironically, atheism only encourages new superstitions.

  137. @Kratoklastes

    But for Catholicism, humanity would have had CALCULUS by the 2nd century. They had copies of Archimedes’ “Method“, and they ‘repurposed’ them to make copies of their Bronze-Age fanfic nonsense.

    Oh, that’s the problem. You’re retarded. That copy was erased because it was already widely available.


    At the Beavis and Butt-Head end of New Atheism we have the Reddit subgroup /r/atheism, which periodically goes into paroxysms over the Archimedes Palimpsest each time another of its angry teenage apostates hears the story and expresses spluttering fury. So in posts such as this one we get comments like “ancient wisdom eradicated by a moron who believed in fairy tales” and “a good metaphor for the Middle Ages” or “[and] Christians claim that the church is what preserved ancient knowledge” or, best of all, “13th century monks were dicks like that”. These are fairly typical of the way the Palimpsest is usually invoked in New Atheist discussions – “Archimedes came up with calculus but the Church destroyed the only manuscript with this in it, so the Church retarded human progress”. This is often accompanied with paeans to where science and technology could have been today if the Church had not done this (colonies on Mars, cities in the sky etc.), more or less along the lines of the “Destruction of the Great Library of Alexandria” myth.

    But, to be fair, occasionally these rants are interrupted by more level-headed atheists who point out the problems with this idea (as we see in that /r/atheism thread). The key one of these is that, while the Archimedes text certainly was erased by one thirteenth century cleric, the manuscript he was recycling was copied by a tenth century one. So it makes very little sense to howl condemnations of the terrible destruction of this ancient learning in the Middle Ages, when this palimpsest is actually good evidence of its preservation in that period.

    To understand this we need to go beyond blurts on Reddit and TV snippets and look at the history of the transmission of Archimedes’ work down the centuries. Archimedes of Syracuse was justly famous in the ancient world as a great mathematician and geometer who also applied his mathematics to astronomy (typical in the period, as astronomy was considered a branch of mathematics) and to engineering (which was very atypical for an ancient philosopher). Despite this, however, his works were not widely read and therefore not widely copied. This is in part because he wrote in Doric Greek, the dialect of his native Syracuse, rather than the Attic form that was more common across the later Greek-speaking and Greek-literate world. It is also because his works were highly technical, and understandable to only a few specialists. In a period where books had to be copied by hand, the number of copies of any given work is determined by who can read the text and who wants to. As admired and famous as Archimedes was, both the dialect his works were written in and the technicality of their contents meant that his readership was always very small, and the numbers of copies of them were therefore going to be correspondingly tiny. With this in mind, it’s actually remarkable that they have survived at all.

    We owe virtually all our knowledge of Archimedes to a burst of interest in him by a number of sixth century scholars in the Eastern Roman Empire. The first of these was Eutocius of Ascalon (c. 480-c.540) who copied and wrote commentaries on three of Archimedes’ works and one on the Conics of Apollonius. Eutocius travelled widely within the Eastern Empire and was in contact with a number of its most prominent scholars. It is not absolutely certain that he was a Christian, though the fact that he uses the Christian benediction “God-leading” (In Apollonium II, 356.3), dedicates his commentary on Plane Equilibria to “the most noble Peter” (a Christian name), and called the Christian scholar Anthemius of Tralles “my dearest friend” and “dear comrade” in another work indicates that he probably was. His friend Anthemius was an interesting scholar in his own right who, when he wasn’t annoying his neighbour with his thunder and lightning and earthquake-simulation machines, wrote a treatise on burning-glasses and lenses, and described the string construction of the ellipse. In 532 AD, along with his colleague Isidore of Miletus, he was chosen by the emperor Justinian to design and build Hagia Sophia – one of the greatest masterpieces of pre-modern architecture.

    That this monumental church was designed by two scholars of Archimedes is no surprise: it is a testament to his mathematics. Isidore is also the scholar we can thank for the first compilation of Archimedes’ works, which seem to have until then circulated separately or been included in other texts, and it appears all later editions can be traced to his editing work. Thanks to this Christian scholar, we can next trace the transmission of Archimedes to the school of Leo the Mathematician (c. 790-c. 869), who (as his nickname would suggest) taught mathematics along with a range of other disciplines, including Aristotelian logic, astronomy, medicine and philology. He is also credited with making mechanical automata and a levitating throne for the emperor, which dazzled visiting barbarian emissaries to Constantinople long after his death. Leo’s school copied and used the editions of Archimedes compiled by Isidore of Miletus, and three manuscripts that emerged from this school – called by modern scholars the Codex A, Codex B and Codex C collections – were the source texts of all later copies and editions of Archimedes’ work. It was a copy of the Codex C collection, written a little over a century after Leo’s time, that became Archimedes Palimpsest.

    All this shows that the sneering about thirteenth century monks being “dicks” because this copy of Codex C got recycled is completely absurd. Far from “destroying” or “suppressing” the work of Archimedes, we have a succession of Christian scholars and an even longer succession of Christian scribes to thank for its preservation. It’s thanks to Eutocius, Anthemius, Isidore and Leo and the scribes who came after them that we can read these technical works they lovingly studied, annotated and, most of all, painstakingly copied. To cast “Christians” as the villains in this story is totally ludicrous and gets things backwards – they are actually the heroes.

  138. @Kratoklastes

    Roman engineering science was basically lost;

    “Armed with innovative technology, both borrowed and homegrown, the European civilization that Edward Gibbon believed had been brought to a long standstill by “the triumph of barbarism and religion” had in reality taken an immense stride forward. The Romans so congenial to Gibbon would have marveled at what the millennium following their own era had wrought. More perceptive than Gibbon was the English scientist Joseph Glanville, who wrote in 1661: “The last Ages have shewn us what Antiquity never saw; no, not in a dream.”
    Frances and Joseph Gies, Cathedral, Forge, and Waterwheel: Technology and Invention in the Middle Ages (New York: Harper Collins, 1994), p. 16; quoted in Nickel, p. 76.

    There’s a very good reason why the Renaissance has that name; it was a re-birth of classical ways of approaching the world.

    And with it, pagan superstitions. The Renaissance was actually a step-backwards in mathematical and scientific progress because everyone was too busy practicing neo-platonic witchcraft to do any actual science.

    Medieval science:
    >Robert Grosseteste
    >”the real founder of the tradition of scientific thought in medieval Oxford, and in some ways, of the modern English intellectual tradition”
    >”introduced to the Latin West the notion of controlled experiment and related it to demonstrative science, as one among many ways of arriving at such knowledge”

    >Ramon Llull
    >”surfaced manuscripts show his work to have predated by several centuries prominent work on elections theory. He is also considered a pioneer of computation theory, especially given his influence on Gottfried Leibniz”

    >Thomas Bradwardine
    >”distinguished kinematics from dynamics, emphasising kinematics, and investigating instantaneous velocity”
    >”first formulated the mean speed theorem: a body moving with constant velocity travels the same distance as an accelerated body in the same time if its velocity is half the final speed of the accelerated body”
    >”demonstrated this theorem — the foundation of “The Law of Falling Bodies” — long before Galileo, who is generally credited with it”

    >Jean Buridan
    >”proposed that motion was maintained by some property of the body, imparted when it was set in motion. Buridan named the motion-maintaining property impetus.”
    >”held that the impetus of a body increased with the speed with which it was set in motion, and with its quantity of matter”
    >”Buridan’s impetus is closely related to the modern concept of momentum”
    >”anticipated Isaac Newton”

    >Nicole Oresme
    >”his method of figuring the latitude of forms is applicable to the movement of a point, on condition that the time is taken as longitude and the speed as latitude”
    >”published what was taught over two centuries prior to Galileo’s making it famous”
    >”Oresme developed the first proof of the divergence of the harmonic series”
    >”was the first mathematician to prove this fact, and (after his proof was lost) it was not proven again until the 17th century by Pietro Mengoli”

    Renaissance science:
    >cum in a jar, drip blood on it daily and keep it in a pile of warm shit
    >this will create a miniature, magical servant for you

  139. anon[377] • Disclaimer says:
    @Viktor Templeton

    A cath cuck layman like you is NOT allowed to interpret scripture on his own.
    You need to obey your priests, and they’re telling you that your antisemitism is incompatible with being a good Catholic. So you’d better repent!

    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
  140. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Have you ever been to my diocese? The resistance is growing every week thanks to Francis and his open idolatry. What have you faggots done besides complain about the church?

  141. Matra says:
    @Dutch Boy

    Dr. Jones also reported that Mr. Francis had made a death bed conversion to Catholicism

    IIRC Sam’s death bed conversion story came from Joe Sobran. I don’t think any evidence was ever presented so it was probably just wishful thinking on Sobran’s part.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  142. @anon

    Good thing no cleric can override traditional church teaching, which holds that the Jews are the enemies of God.

  143. utu says:
    @Viktor Templeton

    Ever notice how the “race realist”/HBD crowd that likes to pin the decline of the West on Christianity is full of philo-semites with yellow fever or non-white spouses/girlfriends. John Derbyshire bemoans the Christian influence on society then says we need the Jews to survive and make a better world for his half-breed children.

    Exactly. The HBD is a curse. Another Jew spawned heresy. The poor losers on the alt-right have no clue how they are being played. And all their yapping about Jews here at Unz Review comes to nothing as long as it is framed in the hollow barren impotent ideology of HBDism.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  144. Hacienda says:
    @Anne Lid

    I attended a couple of UU services during a time I was depressed. It helped a lot. UUs are by nature accepting, skeptical, and non-judgemental. It’s the anti-religion religion.

  145. Alden says:
    @Achilles Wannabe

    I agree that the reformation Protestants were just wanna be jews. I’ve always felt their devotion to the Jewish bible was because of the sex and violence in an age when bibles were the only book in most households.

  146. Biff says:
    @Twodees Partain

    BTW, has anyone ever told you how ridiculous you look in that photo with the sword?

    That sword looks pretty awesome to me – wish I had one like that..

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  147. @Nicholas Stix

    You are Jewish and your wife is Asian. You have a brown son. There is nothing Western about you.

    You are the Jewish John Derbyshire. You also write for VDare.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  148. @Hibernian

    The Catholic Church falsified the Vedic heritage of Europe as Greco-Roman in 16th century, the Austro-Hungarian Empire(the last iteration at 18-19th century of Vatican) continued with failed attempt of Indo-Germanic origin and then Vienna-Berlin historical school continued the work which today is being abandoned by most European countries.

    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
  149. @Viktor Templeton

    Tell me, what is the way forward for Odinists? Living off welfare and making Youtube videos like Varg? Or is it sodomizing each other in the woods like Jack Donovan?

    I guess they were taught/trained well in catholic schools well of sodomy, pederasty and molestation

    It was not until St. Benedict that the Germanic people became something more than barbarians


    Really? Was that why in WWII the first thing that the Germans bombarded in Yugoslavia were the libraries and Il Duce’s fascists were gathering Etruscan heritage and art to be destroyed?

    Another neo-FAGan who’s never heard of Byzantium

    The term Byzantium for an Empire was invented in Rome/Vatican two centuries after fall of Constantinople.

    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
  150. @Thulean Friend

    What we practice here in december is in many ways completely divorced from Christianity in any meaningful sense, from Lussi to Lucia to the “christmas tree” which is really a Germanic pagan tradition and has zero to do with Christianity.

    Germanic pagan? And who’s temple did the Catholics burned to ground in Rügen? And who’s tradition is St. Nicholas?
    But your question/statement was is in place:

    Why should I worship a desert abrahamic cult?

  151. Dumbo says:

    What is “self-serving” about stating that most people in the world are religious and will likely continue to be? (Even if not necessarily the same religions)

    As for the rest of your comment: Blah blah blah. Those are philosophers, no common people. Go preach your atheist credo in a Brazilian favela or in the Cairo slums and see how far that takes you. I’m talking about the majority of the population of the world, 90%, not the small minority who always thinks that they are smarter that anyone else and dreams of accommodating the rest of the world to their ideas. I bet you’re a libertarian too.

    As for the Chinese, I have no idea what they believe and don’t care that much, but from what I’ve seen from people I met, despite Communist brainwashing they are one of the most superstitious people on Earth, very far from agnosticism.

  152. Peter Gemma says: • Website
    @Dutch Boy

    There were life long friends Sam insisted stay with him through the last days; he also nodded yes and no to various names of friends and colleagues he wanted to see. There was an attempt to sneak a priest in his room but he was turned away. If somehow that man says he was able to poke his head in the room at an unguarded moment and get Sam to say something totally against his nature in a split second, without the other people realizing it, well, I suppose miracles could happen.
    Those who were with Sam say it didn’t.

  153. The idea that Protestants, Catholics, and Jews are “ethnic groups” is proof that E. Michael Jones is insane and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

    He also believes the earth is flat.

    • Replies: @SharkSale
  154. @Kratoklastes

    I remain a Christian but I think you make a good case for your views. The last sentence in particular: I had the same thought when I learned about my church’s big plans for evangelizing Africa.

    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
  155. @utu

    I think Derbyshire, Taylor, and the rest are simply afraid of losing their livelihood or worse if they took their white nationalism to its logical conclusion and confronted the Jewish power-base that stands in the way of their schemes. So they go through the motions of soliticing Jewish support for white nat ideas that not one Jew in a thousand would sign on to. Their project is therefore stillborn and the final impression is comical.

  156. @Matra

    You’re saying Sobran would just make it up? That’s rather audacious on your part. Do you have any source?

    • Replies: @Peter Gemma
  157. SharkSale says:
    @Peter Gemma

    Jones’s account of the events of that day and its aftermatch is to be found here:

    Re Sam Francis’s deathbed conversion Father Scalia saw him before he died and would presumably know..

    The actual speech is here:

    I leave it to readers to make up their own minds over a) whether the speech makes reasonable points and b) whether the reaction to it in some quarters was reasonable.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  158. @montechristoff

    I guess they were taught/trained well in catholic schools well of sodomy, pederasty and molestation

    Congratulations on falling for a Jewish media moral psyop against the the church.

    The term Byzantium for an Empire was invented in Rome/Vatican two centuries after fall of Constantinople.

    Which is nowhere near my point.

    • Replies: @montechristoff
  159. @jack daniels

    I remain a Christian but I think you make a good case for your views.

    Then you’re even less informed than he is.

    Actually, Evangelism in Africa worked wonderfully before anti-colonial types and Marxists started burning everything.

  160. SharkSale says:
    @Nathan Bedford Bonsai

    “He also believes the earth is flat.” An outright lie (so, naturally no source).

    Learn to pronounce
    the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

    • Replies: @Nathan Bedford Bonsai
  161. Dumbo says:

    Thanks. Things area bit clearer now.
    But it is odd that this feud remains even after 12 years and so much has changed.

  162. Peter Gemma says: • Website
    @jack daniels

    Joe, a former client of mine and a good friend, never saw Sam that week he was hospitalized. Wishful thinking.
    The difference of opinion on Sam’s deathbed conversion will never be settled. The people who Sam asked to care for him, including his sister and those who took care of his stuff and who he lived with for years, were with him every day — they claim it didn’t happen. There is a priest who says he snuck in and Sam’s Catholic friends want to believe he did.
    There it is.

    • Replies: @SharkSale
  163. SharkSale says:
    @Peter Gemma

    Either Father Scalia (son of Antonin) is telling the truth or he isn’t. Agreed, people can make up their own minds on that one.

  164. @jack daniels

    “Paleoconservatism” is unsalvageable because it is rooted in the Judeo-Masonic tradition of British Tory conservatism. England has done the Jew’s bidding since the Tudors.

  165. Bernie says:

    Is there any inter-ethnic violence or hate among whites in the US? I cannot recall ever hearing about a group of Irish attacking Poles or Italians beating Germans or white Catholics attacking white Protestants. Perhaps there was some white ethnic gang violence but when was the last time that happened? The 1930s?

    Meanwhile, black-on-white violence and hatred is a daily event in the West.

    Jones is on a bit firmer ground in terms of Muslim attacks in the UK. But the stabbings this weekend were of white atheists. The daily rapes, robberies and murders are against non-religious white people.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  166. @Viktor Templeton

    Nowhere near your point, I see.
    Well too bad for you.
    Next time use a more subtle logical fallacy to brush off an argument.

    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
  167. The analytical failures in the above take one down a road dubious: maybe accurate, but unsupportable conclusions.

    First there is not melting pot as describe. The melting pot is not to the blend of faith and practices but to a commonality of a single purpose as to nationhood and maintaining that status. If I make a soup with potatoes, carrots and lamb chops despite the fact that each ingredient contributes minus what actually sifted into the liquid to add flavoring or texture at the end of the day, it remains a potatoes, lamb chops and carrots. How much of each of those ingredients is flavor or texture added depends on how long, the heat and process used in cooking said soup.

    Second in the case of the above faith and practices, being a US citizens did not “cook out” the three at any level deep enough to challenge the their existence. Being a US citizen was compatible with all three fifth and the contribution of all three faiths did challenge the core nature of citizenship.

    Three, the nature of the various faiths is misleading, because none of the categories above are in themselves isolate beliefs.

    Fourth, the notion that any of the above general categories are in essence europeans is entirely false. They are not. They are shared in presentation as such, but original concepts entirely false. There is nothing reflective about early eurpoeans life that exists in any of the categories referenced. one might even question the distinction between catholics and protestants, save that before Catholicism, there were various independent churches that practiced the faith under only the guidance of the Apostles, by way of the gospels, and then the epistles of the same. none of the apostles acknowledge the headship of peter as pope, not even Peter. So for all practical purposes the early churches were independent entities under the headship of christ and designated leaders. What the Roman leadership does is to stamp a process of organizational management on the faith itself

    a. hierarchy
    b. organizing the belief system
    c. and it’s subsequent distribution.

    None of the original texts and processes existed among the early (first) christians. The letters are not categorically numbered as legalized texts via chapter and verse. That is the legacy of Greek (Aristotelian), Arabic and Roman organization.

    But the meaning of christ is derived the Middle East/North African populations. The core belief system of all three faiths is not european.

  168. @Dumbo

    One of the most significant things that the Christian church did post-Constantine (ie. the embrace of the state) was to impose marriage rules. This is an historical fact.
    The rules were a direct attack on tribe and clan loyalty. The rules were simple: no cousin marriage. Over time, through successful dissolution of clan loyalties (it took centuries) the Church filled that vacuum. What it created was a greater openness to the ‘outsider’, who was not really an outsider as he/she was a fellow Christian.
    Christian universalism- religion, language (Latin as a lingua franca) and culture- gave Europeans organizational cohesion. Now, unfortunately, Europeans are too open to outsiders and are paying the price.
    If we survive as a group, in Europe or in Diaspora, it will be due to our recognition and response AS A GROUP with specific desires and interests.
    Nationalism is a good start.

  169. There are two other factors oft avoided regarding the cultural imprint of Eurpeans adoptipon of christian faith and practice that are at odds with the faith itself. The use of christian belief as both a political and military mechanism.

    Those are unique features that have force from Christ. And as European history lays out in no uncertain terms is that its use part of the Catholic – Anglo Saxon tradition and clearly not reflective of the Apostles of faith or Christ himself.

  170. @Viktor Templeton

    Germania- Publius Cornelius Tacitus
    Aeneid – Virgil
    … for starters, now, are going to destroy those now as is in your tradition….?

    • Replies: @Viktor Templeton
  171. So in examining the European traditions of faith the most pronounced value added is not the faith itself, that existed before Europe and in spite of Europe — but what the use of political and military might to advance Europe is not only unique but even contradictory to the cornerstone of the faith b y way adding to the faithful.

    So when one advances anglo saxon superiority, they must acknowledge that the package is wrapped and bowed not in christian ethos — but an ethos of political and military force that riled the nation’s of Europe and world as the Europeans vied for power and control around the globe. And that history is loaded with intrigues: lies, rape murder, betrayal, thievery and deep hypocrisies that eventually are uncovered and unravel the European claim to fame.

    To make claims of superior, ethical standard is to pretend, that before Europeans killed and maimed each other into some formal states of intermediate peaceful co existence nothing of value existed as to human civilization to include law, order and the power of christianity — and that is historically false. But more telling is how those Europeans practiced their superiority. They not only destroyed the ethos of order that existed before, they proceeded to deny their supposed conquests by hook or by crook that which they claimed for themselves and that is totally contrary to

    why Christian ethos existed all. Those hypocrisies as practice would be part and parcel to the formulation of the US.


    If one takes the scripture before the press of catholic ethos, even the marriages as monogamous essentials was not unknown but even their scripture makes it clear before Rome the preferred role and organization of marriages under Christ.

    But rules even for marriage were well established and enforced within communities outside of the church of Rome.

    Myopia can be a serious debilitative condition.

  172. Giwu-Ger says:

    You cannot explain history with a solely religious mindset. The majority of catholics were, broadly speaking, ethnically similar or compatible.
    It’s like claiming that the trifecta is actually poor people, middle class white collar workers and rich a-holes. This might be even more correct as from surface level, the rich get along with the rich and so on.
    Jones is not helpful although his work on the j.revolutionary spirit is good.

  173. Giwu-Ger says:
    @Thulean Friend

    I don’t think so, at least in theory. Folkish Paganism is flexible. We don’t have to become all Odinists but Odinists will get along fine with the Rodnovery, for example. There hasn’t been a Pagan lead crusade as far as we know.
    People can chose how to express their native faith as there are no “stone inscribed commandments” intimidating your tribe.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  174. 3g4me says:
    @tyler kent

    @81 Tyler Kent: True, but neither should it matter even if he did defend the morality of slavery. Ignore all the rest of the old or new Testament, and merely focus on Jesus’ own words. There’s quite a bit about what a master owes his servants or slaves, and what obligations they, in turn, owe their masters. There’s not a word about the innate sinfulness of social status or class, or of slavery. There’s no call for mass insurrection. There’s plenty about individual salvation.

  175. Dumbo says:

    I hate to say it, but Odin doesn’t exist. Or at least very few people alive today believe in his existence. I love the nordic sagas as much as anyone, but I don’t see the point of (re)creating an actual religion around it. You might as well worship Star War characters. Yeah, I guess you would say the same about Jesus or Mohammed, but it’s not exactly the same thing, at least, not yet.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Giwu-Ger
  176. EMJ is always interesting even though I may not agree with him. His personal starting point is that of a very committed traditional Roman Catholic and that is his primary identity. I am familiar with this mindset because my father was exactly of the same mind. In fact, my dad was exactly of the same ethnic make-up as EMJ. Ethnic background was of little interest to him, as was race (in a very overt sense). I would say my dad’s outlook politically and socially was how much the world around him was in sync with Roman Catholic morality. As for politics, it was probably that of a Buckleyite conservative (he actually greatly admired Bill Buckley because he was a Roman Catholic). My dad was a man of his times – a working class, Catholic, WW II vet who still lived in the boros of NY. I personally see identity more in race/ethnicity rather than in religion primarily because of my much looser relationship with the Catholic church. It is also because of the current demographic and social changes that have become extremely dominant in the last 20 years. As a white man I am less and less in the position where I can be left alone beliefs etc. (unless I become a shut-in). Just like the black man, the Hispanic or the Asian, my race goes wherever I go. Overt religious identity as the primary identity is only applicable with people like EMJ. I can leave Catholicism and become an Evangelical, an Odinist, a Hare Krishna or an agnostic. I cannot change my race -even if I try and pull a Dolezal.

  177. Race is upstream from religion.

    Race is upstream from culture and politics.

    E Michael Jones is a German/Irish Catholic globalizer baby boomer nut who has crawled into bed with mass immigration extremist Pope Tango.

    E Michael Jones is a treasure when he is explaining the origins of the evil and demonic ADL, but when E Michael Jones starts squawking about the Catholic Church as some kind of benevolent force that preserves European Christian civilization, he stumbles like a boob.

    I just gave E Michael Jones some support to some of his ideas by talking about European Christian civilization, but it was the genetic endowment — to borrow from Sam Francis — and the blood of the Europeans that created the civilization of the Europeans.

    Race is the whole ball of wax.

    Ask Hillary Clinton why she lives in the mostly White town of Chappaqua, New York, instead of cheek by jowl with Blacks and other non-Whites.

    The Catholic Church is evil and demonic — just like the ADL — and it must be destroyed!


    Sam Francis is the blood of the USA, and E Michael Jones is a Catholic Church First interloper.

    God Bless Sam Francis And To Hell With Pope Tango, E Michael Jones and the Evil Globalizer Catholic Church!

    Tweets from 2014:

  178. babu says:

    Blacks are oppressed and Asians are marginalized in this system of WS. Oppressed and marginalized peoples must continue their struggle for equality and civil rights.

    • LOL: Twodees Partain
  179. Giwu-Ger says:

    That is a really immature take.
    Obviously, Odin exists at least as much as Jesus or the semitic god. At least you kinda admit that.

    My ancestors (baltic) believed in the old ways far, far longer than in the christian cult, who had a very shaky grip in any case.

    Polytheism in its form is the natural religion for Europeans (and most other peoples, too), and it exists so strongly that christianity had to morph multiple times in order to be able to compete. I could say far more confidently that christianity does not exist, because the central tenets provoke strong dissonances in the European mind.
    The endpoint for christianity is either a mindless, albeit weak cult (amish), a crazy cult (christian rightwingers) or globohomo (pope).

    If one believes in fundamental forces and moral axioms, and most do, you naturally arrive at a plurality of friendly, ancestor-like entities and natural concepts. It’s in a way irrelevant wether this is mere psychology and biology or true spirituality.
    Star Wars characters are calculated copies taken from our (polytheistic) myths, worshipping them would be kinda pointless and lead in any case, over time, to the same source.

    I hope you will mature at some point and realise that we are more than just material beings, whatever the consequences.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend

    I think you will have to explicate this out —

    I have yet to see anyone effectively define

    white identity beyond skin color and even then what constitutes white skin seems an issue for whites promoting white identity or not.

    • Troll: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  181. @Giwu-Ger

    For me, it is less about an absolute belief than being a natural part of self. A lot of aspects of ancient Nordic beliefs were very good, such as taking care of nature etc. Some aspects may need to be changed. Obviously we can evolve it with the times.

    To go back to your previous comment, I think the issue isn’t so much making people getting along with Asatro/Odinism, so much as to identify various white Americans with their respective religion. Today the two dominant native European faiths are the Nordic ones as well as the Greek ones. If you’re, say, French or Spanish or Slavic, there are remnant faiths for you too but they are much less known in the popular consciousness. Since a lot of American whites are very mixed, unless they have a strong Nordic/Germanic ancestry or a heavily Greek one, many of them would be confused. How would a French-Irish-Croat mutt react. Where does he go? That would be the problem for many white Americans and it’s an issue to be solved. Christianity, for all its faults, solves this issue off the bat. The problem is that it is not a Europe-centric religion, no matter what catholic ideologues like to pretend.

  182. @EliteCommInc.

    I think you will have to explicate this out — I have yet to see anyone effectively define white identity beyond skin color and even then what constitutes white skin seems an issue for whites promoting white identity or not.

    You are quite right to question what White means in terms of racial identity, but your comment brought to mind a man named Morgoth and his ideas about a political type called The Hatchling.


    “The “hatchling” is a kind of leftist who…their talking points and their psychology…it’s all fake of course…but it’s as if they just cracked out of an egg. And they’ve just arrived in the world. And they have no a priori knowledge of the universe, of history, of humanity, of basic common sense. Nothing.”

  183. GPJ says:

    Thank you and God bless you. This is perfect.

  184. @jack daniels

    jack daniels, stop tippling the Johnny Walker.

    Derbyshire is a degenerate Asian poontanger who will leave an anti-white Chinese family when he dies. He has destroyed his genetic inheritance. He is afraid of Jews. This cuck is a Sinophile. He hates the West. He and his family will be sent to China.

    Jared Taylor is a Jew-controlled cuck. This idiot is always babbling that East Asians are smarter than whites. They are not. Asians had nothing to do with the development of the West or its technology. I listen to the podcasts he and his sidecuck Paul Kersey post. Listening to these two cucks is a glimpse into the mind of the cucked Western male who is destroying the West. They babble about how the USA is finished. They babble about what their place will be in a minority white America. None of this is going to happen. Taylor is 68 and in his prime. Kersey is in his late 30s. All these cucks do is scribble and babble.

    Nick Fuentes and the Groypers have changed things. We will see how over the next year. VDare and AmRen did not expect this. They don’t mention Fuentes and the Groypers too much.

    2020 is Year Zero. Bring it on.

  185. @Biff

    Yeah, it’s a nice sword. The pic is still silly, though.

  186. Well,

    For me this is simple. If you want me to join a cause for whiteness as more than skin color you will need to qualify it. Now that dos not require a “blank slate” scenario, in fact, a blank slate posture would be of no help in this case. The proposition requires a foreknowledge of some basic concepts, in my opinion.

    Race — humans
    which race of humans — white race: historically there is no established agreement about what or who qualifies. Half, quad, octo . . . etc.

    Ethnicity: and here we ;eave any notion of whiteness behind because we are now talking about culture: language, religious practice if any, history, and that would include a myriad of sub cultural existences (keenly aware that sub has become unacceptable among academy types).

    On its face among Europeans there is no one ethnic practice. No common language.

    It appears on listening the only real unifying principle seems to congeal when the issue is frames as whiteness against everyone else.

    My skepticism is linked to the comment above regarding being Polish and black. If I speak, english, embrace english history as my own, abide by its precepts and conditions, advance all things Britain — it’s a tough sell that one is disqualified based on some benign trait, such as skin color.

    And making references to Europe is going to rife with issues.


    “And they have no a priori knowledge of the universe, of history, of humanity, of basic common sense. Nothing.”

    This comes across as a fairly obvious “straw man” as explicating out who qualifies for the white identity is not the same as asking anyone to explain the universe. just this particular aspect in the universe they want to see exist or they does exist.

  187. “Nick Fuentes and the Groypers have changed things. We will see how over the next year. VDare and AmRen did not expect this. They don’t mention Fuentes and the Groypers too much.”

    They’ll have to do better than call people names and mock the concepts and histories they don’t like. That thy have no core grasp of why history matters leave a rather empty teas nest.

  188. Bill says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    I don’t notice any substantive difference between Roman Protestants and the other sorts of Protestants. They are Americanist, through and through. Maybe 100 years ago there were differences and maybe a resurgent Church would be different, but, today?

  189. Bill says:

    Whites are firmly in charge of the Church, though, still and for a while yet.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  190. @montechristoff

    I don’t know why you retards think shouting “LOGICAL FALLACY” is somehow an easy button for winning the argument.
    He said “Rome was not and will never be Christian.”
    I pointed out that Rome and Greece where Christian in the form of the Byzantine Empire for over a thousand years.
    Then you said “UM ACKSHULLY, THEY NEVER CALLED IT BYZANTIUM!” as if that disproved my original point.
    You’re an idiot.

  191. @montechristoff

    Why are you complaining about the church supposedly destroying classical culture by citing two books that were preserved by the church?

  192. @montechristoff

    Your little conspiracy theory that the church sought to obscure the Vedic origins of Europe.

    • Replies: @montechristoff
  193. Hibernian says:
    @Nicholas Stix

    Some of them had been considering it for a long time. Wayne had been married to three Hispanic women, and Hispanics were almost all Catholics at the time.

  194. Hibernian says:

    “Perhaps there was some white ethnic gang violence but when was the last time that happened? The 1930s?”

    The St. Valentine’s Day Massacre was in Chicago; late ’20s or early 30s. Italian mob hit on Irish mobsters. Made the remaining Irish mobsters vassals of the Italian mobsters. I don’t know of a more recent example.

  195. @Viktor Templeton

    Is Musolini’s order to gather all Etruscan heritage and destroy it a conspiracy?
    Or German bombing of Belgrade in WWII that hit first the City’s Library which housed some of the oldest manuscripts. And then looting around 40 train compositions full of Serbian historical and cultural heritage and never returning it. Now, what do you call that? Wasn’t Musolini the one who allowed the Vatican to hold on it’s autonomy from Italy?

    In the last, Chapter X, Toleva clarified the role of the Roman Catholic monsignor Primo Dochi, who had a plan to create a North Albanian Dukedom
    …. She also mentioned the Romanian Albert Djike who considered himself as descendant of Scanderbeg and who actively lobbed for the Albanian issue is interesting

    Now, wasn’t the Austro-Hungarian Empire considered the last Papal State?
    And if you scratch deep enough in Romanian history you will see totally different story.
    But then, of course this is all in my head, Right?
    You Sir, are an empty wind. But of course, your highest form of discourse is when you cannot kick the horse you would try to kick it’s saddle and then pretend that you won the argument.

    As far as Byzantine Empire, i would strongly suggest to you, that you ask for your money back from whoever taught you Romanticized history.
    And before you write your next comment, please re-check your favorite “historiographers” sources.
    Next time you ask for sources at least have an open mind for whatever someone is try to tell you, you lazy slob.

  196. @Rich

    Regarding religion I think so, but how can we forge a common culture based on race without becoming neo-Nazi?

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @Rich
  197. @Joseph Doaks

    how can we forge a common culture based on race without becoming neo-Nazi?

    What if someone posed this question:

    How can we forge a common culture based on race without becoming Neo-Napoleonic?

    If the Italians had asked, “How can we forge a common culture based on race without becoming neo-Graeco?” there would have been no Renaissance.

    Why did you not go right to the heart of the matter, and ask this:

    How can we forge a common culture based on race without becoming neo-zionist?

    In other words, “One giant step for mankind” would be to start being honest about Nazism and also start being honest about zionism.

    The latter preceded former and has far outlasted it; zionism is a far greater threat to the well-being of people all over the world than Nazism ever was or ever intended to be.

    Stop vilifying Nazism.

    Stop being afraid to demand that zionists and zionism be called to account for their past- and ongoing crimes against the Russian people, the German people, the Palestinian people, the British people, and the American people.

  198. “Regarding religion I think so, but how can we forge a common culture based on race without becoming neo-Nazi?”

    Don’t it is self defeating and impractical. Focus on nationality.

    I would be very fascinated how anyon is going to explain to

    Dr. Sowell, Gen/Sec of State Powell, Sec/NSA Condoleeza Rice why they are being to being told that despite their service thy are hereby no longer citizens of the US and must depart.

  199. In fact here’s a list:

    Derrick Wilburn

    Brian Jones

    Gary Franks

    Jesse Peterson

    Dian Cameron

    Kathleen Bravo

    Brad Stetson

    I would like to hear your commencement why ther are no longer citizens based on their skin color.

  200. Rich says:
    @Joseph Doaks

    I’m not sure I understand your question. The Nazis themselves were very specific to the Germany of the 30s and early 40s. “Neo-Nazis” are a small group of individuals who find pleasure in saluting what they view as “Nazi” values. Neither would be relevant to the US. Southern Whites came together based on shared values, shared history and shared European blood, and for many years built a strong culture, without reverting to National Socialism, fascism, or communism. Before a small, but powerful group decided to bow before “minority rights”, White Americans were able to build a great country where merit was the main factor towards getting a job and freedom, as defined within the Bill of Rights, was our ideology. If Whites once again take pride in their heritage, eliminate all affirmative action, return to the pre-1965 immigration rules, as well as deport all illegals, and enforce law and order, we can recreate, for the most part, the nation we once had. Freedom of religion, along with a more masculine philosophy like Stoicism, would go a long way.

    • Replies: @montechristoff
  201. @attilathehen

    “Nick Fuentes and the Groypers have changed things. We will see how over the next year. VDare and AmRen did not expect this.”

    VDARE and AmRen are read by the White House Senior Policy Adviser.

    Hillary Clinton blamed the Alt-Right for helping get Donald Trump elected.

    What have the Groypers actually accomplished beyond harassing Charlie Kirk?

    Your triumphalist attitude is not rooted in reality…not remotely.

  202. @SharkSale

    Not a lie—an honest mistake. He doesn’t believe the earth is flat—he believes the sun revolves around the Earth.


    Just search his name along with “geocentrism.”

    Regarding ethnicity, Webster’s defines it biologically/racially, as does almost everyone except you and E. Michael Jones:

    Synonyms for ethnicity
    nation, nationality, race

    • Replies: @utu
    , @SharkSale
  203. @Nathan Bedford Bonsai

    Fuentes and the Groypers brought up foreign aid to Israel and other Jewish issues. They brought up immigration. They brought up the homosexual problem.

    WH Senior Policy Advisor (((Stephen Miller))) is an obstacle when it comes to dealing with the immigration problem. He reads VDare and AmRen because they are Jew-controlled sites.

    The alt-right has broken up and is now popping up in different ways – i.e., Fuentes and the Groypers.

    “Harassing” Kirk caused him to expose himself. He is a frontman for Soros and the Koch brothers.

    2020 is Year Zero.

    • Replies: @Nathan Bedford Bonsai
  204. utu says:
    @Nathan Bedford Bonsai

    “he believes the sun revolves around the Earth” – Not really. His position is that Earth is in the centre of universe and he uses the negative result of Michelson-Morley experiment as support of his position. The M-M experiment indicates that Earth does not move with respect to ether. On Earth you can’t detect ether, so if ether is associate with what is constant about universe than Earth can be regarded as this universe a constant point and just as well might be its center. The ether is the ultimate referee frame in which the known universe (stars, galactics,..) is submerged. So in this sense this position is defensible.

  205. @Bill

    The whites in charge of the RCC are not doing a good job.

    Pope Frannie is the head white. He’s a heretic.

    The white homo Jesuit James Martin is running around promoting homosexuality in the RCC.

    Whites are leaving the RCC in huge numbers. This is brain drain from which the RCC will never recover. Blacks/Asians don’t have the intelligence needed to run the RCC.

    The College of Cardinals will not hesitate to chose a black or Asian pope.

    • Replies: @Bill
  206. @Rich

    Southern Whites came together based on shared values, shared history and shared European blood, and for many years built a strong culture, without reverting to National Socialism, fascism, or communism.

    There never was a shared European blood or values.
    Just ask the Irish, the First true slaves Of the U.S colonies. There never was Whites compared to others of colored skin. There were only masters and slaves regardless of color or faith, just pure interest, pure calculation of how much this life will gain me how many ounces of gold. And while you beat yourself with thoughts like “Whites” versus other “colored”, someone has already sold you and the money/gold that they got on you has turned three times over.

  207. @attilathehen

    “Fuentes and the Groypers brought up foreign aid to Israel and other Jewish issues. ”

    So have a billion other people. So does this site every day. Fuentes’s only “innovation,” if you can call it that, is his consistent demonization of white identity in favor of some half-baked sentimental Catholicism. He and E. Michael Jones are being used to corral people away from race realism into the comfortable and unthreatening confines of religion.

    What Fuentes is great at is convincing uneducated 20-year-olds that he’s actually accomplished anything beyond harassing Charlie Kirk, who is not even a household name.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  208. Rich says:

    You’re wrong. It’s true some Irish convicts were sent to the Americas, but that was a small number. The Irish, along with Scotsmen, Welshmen and even Englishmen, did often arrive in both the colonies and the free States as indentured servants, and did face hardships. But it was illegal to hold Europeans as slaves. Whites in the US worked together to settle a savage forest and build a nation. They did a pretty good job, too, until extreme altruism became the elite’s method of subjugating the majority.

    • Replies: @montechristoff
  209. SharkSale says:
    @Nathan Bedford Bonsai

    Pretty catastrophic error there to manage to confuse geocentrism with flat-earthism! I refer you to utu’s reply on that. The point is you were engaged in a smear, and believe that calling someone a geocentrist is also a smear. Not a very adult way of addressing someone’s points.

    The definition of ethnicity came from the Oxford Dictionary – so again you are wrong in your statement (“as almost everyone except you and E. Michael Jones).

  210. @attilathehen

    When you repeat yourself, you just sound dumber.

    “You are the Jewish John Derbyshire.”

    So, I’m one of the most brilliant, witty minds on the face of the earth? Why, thanks!

    “You also write for VDare.”

    Fifteen years and running. And?

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  211. Ten years ago, I attempted to make this point at a memorial service for the paleo-conservative thinker Sam Francis when I claimed that the culture wars weren’t fought along racial lines, but they were fought along ethnic lines. Sam and I were both “white,” whatever that meant, but we belonged to two different ethnic groups because ethnicity in America is based on religion. I then brought up the Triple Melting Pot and claimed that America far from being some unified nation inhabited by generic Americans turns out to be a lot like the former Yugoslavia, a country made up of three ethnic groups based on three religions, each engaged in a form of long-standing covert (and in Yugoslavia, oftentimes overt) warfare against each other. As I attempted to show in my book The Slaughter of Cities, one of the most common forms of warfare in both America and Yugoslavia involves ethnic cleansing.

    Dr. Jones, I respect much of your work, but your perspective on the issue of ethnicity in the US is, much like the original Triple Melting Pot thesis, still rooted in the old 90% European America ( as complicated in itself as it was). This is no longer the case. An outsider who thinks of an America is likely to think of a mixed ethno-racial brown person with no religion. When Old America was the reality I do agree with you that the Triple Melting Pot thesis holds true. The Old World ethnicities converged around the religions. The black Americans are an obvious caveat for this. Sorry, black protestant Americans are not the same ethnic group as white protestant Americans.

    Regardless, in the new America, the Triple Melting Pot no longer holds true, as we have been bombarded with tens of millions of people with real and definable ethnicities with abstract consumer/liberal values as the solvent of assimilation. We are living in a mini global favela with literally thousands of almost every race, ethnicity, and religion on the planet here in the US all interacting with each other. We had empires before of course, but the scale of this is utterly unprecedented. Models that are built on pre-Enrichement America are wildly incapable of dealing with this situation.

  212. @Nicholas Stix

    Since you place yourself in the same category as the degenerate Asian poontanger John Derbyshire, you prove my point about your stupidity. Though a Jew, you and the gentile Derbyshire share the common interest of Asian poontang. Nothing Western about any of this. Derbyshire and his Chinese family will be sent to China. You and your family will be sent to Israel.

    So, VDare has been around for 15 years. What have they done that’s of any importance regarding immigration?

  213. Smith says:

    Christian fight against pagans and now christians fight among themselves on who’s the true christian, while muslims and jews conquer Europe. What a joke.

    Every abrahamic religions are cancer, Jew, Christian, Muslim, same shit, different smell.

    Europe will thrive regardless if its genetic purity and its ancient Greco-Roman philosophy are maintained. Nothing else matters, and that’s for the same for the desert religions.

  214. Dannyboy says:

    Catholicism never proclaimed paganism to be ENTIRELY evil. As a matter of fact it made a point to preserve what was good and noble in pagan society.

    That tolerance is used against us by Protestant/Calvinist/Muslim wannabees.

    • Agree: Hibernian
  215. Anon[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anne Lid

    “they believe in nothing”.

    Say the rival snake oil salesmen.

  216. @montechristoff

    “There never was a shared European blood or values.”

    Yes, and the Hutus and Tutsis killed each other, but in America they’re all black—due to their proximity to Europeans.

    This is a deceptive semantic game that race-deniers such as Jones play.

    Black people see him as white. Not as Catholic. Not as Irish. As white. And that’s the playing board we’re playing on.

    • Replies: @utu
  217. utu says:
    @Nathan Bedford Bonsai

    Black people see him as white. Not as Catholic. Not as Irish. As white. And that’s the playing board we’re playing on.

    Why do you care about Black people opinion how do they see you? Deaf people can’t tell what’s the difference between classical and rock music. Does it mean that person who likes rock is the same as the person who appreciates classical music? The point of culture is to civilize, elevate and transcend the animal in you. Do you care how dogs or chimps see you? No, train them, you civilize them. Christianity is the most potent tool for civilizing. It had not been sufficiently applied to Blacks.

    • Replies: @Nathan Bedford Bonsai
  218. @Kratoklastes

    Technology will not save you, Whig.

    • Agree: montechristoff
  219. @utu

    “Why do you care about Black people opinion how do they see you?”

    I don’t care at all—that is, up until the point they want to murder or extort me because of “how they see me.”

    The extortion is constant. Been attacked physically a few times, too.

    And ay, yi, yi, can it with this tedious and goofy Jesus Distraction. Statistically, blacks are more likely to be Christian than whites:

  220. Matra says:

    Do you care how dogs or chimps see you?

    You are comparing blacks to dogs and chimps? Also, how many votes and set-asides do dogs and chimps get? Are dogs and chimps invading from far off shores making demands that can be weaponised by leftists and ethnic rivals against us? Do they provide the cheap labour our business interests desire? Are they in our universities insisting that mathematics is racist and shouting down professors who won’t toe their line? Blacks have far more agency than dogs and chimps and powerful allies so yes it matters what they think.

    Christianity is the most potent tool for civilizing. It had not been sufficiently applied to Blacks.

    Even if that were true, it would require Christian hegemony. I don’t see that anywhere, nor is it on the horizon. Hardly anyone believes in God anymore and most who claim to – tradcaths on Twitter for example – are faking it. Maybe the situation is hopeless. I don’t know what can be done but saying we must “train them, civilize them” may have been possible sixty years ago – there has been regression amongst black Americans in that period – but it’s a non-starter in 2019.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  221. I very much respect Jones.

    But I disagree with his refusal to recognise the realities of race.

    Neo-Babelism is fundamentally anti-Christian, and especially it is anti-Catholic.

    Nowhere, anywhere, in either the Bible, Catholic tradition or the Catechism (2241) is there a call for all the races and nations of man to be dissolved and joined into a single nation ruled over by a one-world government.

    Because that is the inevitable result of total immigration.

    The Bible says the opposite. It says the nations are real, have a different spirit, and will endure even after the end of the world, when even families won’t be joined with each other.

    Nor does Catholicism teach that we must allow anti-Christian immigration until Christianity is destroyed. Because the Church fathers and God and Jesus Christ were not perverse moronic idiots.

    I would like to know E Michael Jones’ position on immigration by non-Christians into Christian lands.

    And I would also like to know his view on the immigration of Christians of a magnitude that will end the existence of God’s nations.

    Western civilization isn’t Christianity alone. It’s also the European peoples, and the Greco-Roman legal and philosophical legacy.

    Nigerians might be Catholic – they will never, ever, ever, ever be Polish. And it would be a sin of the highest order if Poland were to become Nigerian.

    Total universalism is Satanic.

    Galatians 3:28 is actually the passage that establishes replacement theology – it isn’t a fricken basis for holy trannies trap traps.

    And as for Pope Francis, Anne Barnhardt and many others have established his nature.

    • Agree: Dannyboy
  222. anarchyst says:

    Tying Judaism to Christianity was a clever trick used by the jews to “cement” their claim to the “land of Israel” and of the covenant, to which I reply, “God is not a real estate agent”.

    Jews rejected the covenant when they murdered Jesus Christ. Their covenant with God was then “null and void”.

    It is the flawed Schofield translation of the Bible that elevated jews to the status of Christianity’s “elder brothers”, which was then reinforced by the Catholic (flawed) “Vatican II Ecumenical Council” in the 1960s.


    I cringe when I hear well-meaning people talk about out judeo-Christian heritage.
    Nothing could be further from the truth.

    The only common thread between Christianity and judaism is the Ten Commandments, nothing more.

    The god of judaism is a vengeful god, totally unlike the merciful and welcoming God of Christianity.

    Christianity welcomes ALL, regardless of nationality or social status, not true of judaism.

    Judaism is an insular belief system that shuns outsiders, prohibits proselytization, and promotes a form of supremacy, relegating all gentiles (non-jews) to the status of livestock-subhumans with souls, only to be used for the advancement and benefit of jews. In fact, slavery (of goyim) is still condoned and encouraged in the jewish Talmud.

    Jews DID murder Jesus Christ. Sad to say, even the present-day (post-Vatican II ecumenical council) Catholic church has bought into absolving the jews for Jesus Christ’s murder. As always is the case, the jews got others, the Romans to do their dirty work for them, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

    How can Christians have the same values as the Jews; the very people who denounced and betrayed the founder of Christianity, Jesus Christ, and call for his execution (by others, of course, that is the Jewish way).

    It makes absolutely no sense at all.

    Jews have no respect for Christianity, for Jesus Christ or Mary, his mother, who are both honored as Prophets in Islam, but instead, Jews spit on hearing their names and do the same while passing a Christian of any kind or a Christian Church in Israel. They have no respect for Christians or any other religion.

    It is time the Jewish lobbies and the American Government leaders as well as the evangelical Christian leaders who mislead the poor American young into joining the military and believing that they are doing something for God and Christianity by fighting Israel’s wars were named, shamed and arrested and tried for treason.

    • Agree: Dannyboy
  223. He and I were both Hopkins 1969 and he was a good guy.

  224. Bill says:

    Yeah, you’re preaching to the choir.

  225. @Nathan Bedford Bonsai

    You are correct about Fuentes and Jones using Catholicism as a way of denying race. However, Fuentes took the fight to Donald Trump Jr. He attacked the neocons and cucks. This was unexpected. Again, let’s see how this plays out.

    • Replies: @Achilles Wannabe
  226. @Matra

    “Maybe the situation is hopeless. I don’t know what can be done…”

    The situation is not hopeless. Repatration and separation will be the future. Eastern Europe and Japan are fine. China is collapsing. The cucked Western male is the source of the problems in the West. A trad Catholic like EMJ is the problem because he refuses to deal with the realities of IQ and race. Christian Zionists who believe present day Jews are the chosen are another problem. Gentile Freemasons are degenerates who believe in universal brotherhood. Homosexuals are destroying institutions. Western males who blame the Joooooz for our problems are cucks destroying the West. These are the types causing problems in America, England, Germany, France and Sweden. We have to sideline these types of Western males.

    You mentioned that hardly anyone believes in God. I believe in God and I am a Christian. Different races and ethnic groups must have their churches. Man is a religious animal. Since the beginning of time, belief in something “out there” has been part of man’s existence. Whence did I come? Why am I here and in this particular time in history? Where do I go when I die? Why is there something instead of nothing? A writer wrote about the “strangeness of being alive.” I’ve asked these questions, but also know that I will never have answers while I am on the planet. I am grateful that I was born a Western woman and a Christian because I can see that Western civilization is the greatest. I know the people who built this civilization. Jesus is a historical figure and the West cannot be understood without knowing Him. Non-Western types will have to deal with their realities on their own. Our only goal is to save the West.

  227. @Nathan Bedford Bonsai

    It seems to me that there is really only one issue, which is removing the taboo against honest discussion of Jewish power. If that is right, then anyone who breaks the taboo is doing more serious work than someone who builds a case against immigration, which at best will keep a few illegal Mexicans out —- as if there weren’t already millions. Problems must be attacked at the root, and the root is that uncensored right-wing ideas and their supporting evidence cannot be expressed without the ruination of the person who expresses them. But if enough people express them they become expressible. Same as atheism, gay lib, Marxism, etc.

    • Replies: @Achilles Wannabe
  228. @animalogic

    you are unread the talmud kabbalah and mishnah also freemasonry and the judaic oto and satanic kabbalah cults run by mossad 90% of what EMJ says is interesting 10% poisons it all he is infowars a limited hangout

  229. @Flint Clint

    correct “do not move the ancient boundary markers” and subsidarity and the natural order as well as the fact how could a catholic support non catholic aka heathen and pagan immigration it makes no sense…unless you realiz WCC NCC equals communism which in reality is judaism… “anti racism” “liberalism” and etc are nothing more than judaic imperialist and colonialist smokescreens just as they were for the Brutal sheep dipped false face open aggression, theft and mass murder done by the ZOG of the 19th century UK under Levi, Rothschild, and Disisraeli

  230. gsjackson says:

    Just wanted to pass along my anecdotal perspective on the relative intelligence of east Asians. I was in a fairly selective –ranked in the top five — PhD program in mass communication that had several Koreans in it. They all must have come from wealthy families because none of them was a teaching assistant getting a stipend to live on — their English wasn’t fluent enough to make themselves understood by American undergraduates. In the seminars they were completely lost. Any concept beyond the most straightforward bewildered them.

    But they worked like sled dogs, attached their names to all sorts of published projects that basically reinvented the wheel, and all got tenure track jobs at American universities. As ethnic minorities, they help to protect the universities from employment discrimination suits. The women, of course, were even more valued as ‘twofer’ protection. And I’m wondering if any other country puts its own citizens at a distinct disadvantage to foreigners in employment situations.

    Intelligence-wise, they struck me as merely rote learners, able to master the material needed even for standardized tests such as the SAT, but not capable of penetrating insights or reasonably original thought.


    • Replies: @attilathehen
  231. @attilathehen

    I agree on race but only Jones has shown how the Wasp’s and Jews destroyed the Catholic neighborhoods in the cities by using blacks as proxy warriors and how a Wasp Jew alliance helped to bring on WW2 by checking Catholic power which was sympathetic to fascist middle way economies. Most of the White Right is really the Anglo White right. Catholic perspectives will enrich the analysis in some ways.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  232. @jack daniels

    OK I am a great believer in the positive power of negative thinking but lately it does occur to me that we could be coming up on a tipping point. MacDonald. Jones and Unz types are the vanguard but there is an army forming. an army that sees the elephant but is situationally vulnerable to it. So you get the Am Ren and Vdare types’ apparent obliviousness But meanwhile the numbers of troops continue to grow. Then something happens to trigger an awakening. Jews go over the top. Its Jewish. I think ADF is running scared.

  233. @gsjackson

    It’s well-known that Asians can only copy. The Koreans are barely average. The Japanese did copy Western technology but once they learned Western science they were the only Asians to improve technologies and contribute to science. Japanese culture is also elegant and refined. They are the only Asians who contribute to the world.

  234. @Achilles Wannabe

    Yes, EMJ’s documentation about what happened in the 1960s is very good. He is much older than I am so his books are a good way to make sense of what happened to America.

    The WASPs, who are mostly Freemasons, worked with the Jews to bring about WWI and II. They needed to checkmate the RCC and get the state of Israel established. I know it sounds odd, but their goal is to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. This will never happen.

    As a post-Vatican II cradle Catholic, I see the RCC from a completely different perspective than EMJ’s. I am a race realist so the universalism of the RCC, i.e., accepting black/Asian priests-popes, came into direct conflict with my IQ/biology beliefs. For me, it is biology first, beliefs second. I still am a Christian, but we will need to develop churches for the West.

    As a Catholic, I have a universalist view of Western history that American Protestants lack. I grew up with many Eastern Europeans who were Orthodox Christians. I’ve had many Protestant friends. I studied in Europe and am multilingual. When I analyze current events, I have perspectives that very few people have. EMJ will not and can not think outside of his Catholic box. That’s fine. It is up to us to use information and knowledge to come up with plans to save the West.

    • Replies: @Achilles Wannabe
  235. @attilathehen

    Very interesting. Jones is unrealistic about race because of his Catholic viewpoint but it can’t hurt that he is a baby boomer and grew up with the Jewish Boasian denial of biology. I am Jones’s age and believe me, at least among the educated, minds were cleansed of any racialist notions (“whiteness’ had not yet been conjured) by the threat of failure and obscurity

    But another thing I like about Jones is that his default position on race is a defacto ethnicity which was also supposed to be intellectually passe among the cognoscenti. For those of us white gentiles of that era who were non Anglo Protestant and went to WASP turning Jewish universities there was something a LITTLE declasse about ever having been a Catholic and, by implication. of being of an ethnicity which embraced catholicism. All of this was sotto voce and would easily be forgiven providing you were ex Catholic and philo semitic. As a working class kid and not the brightest bulb on the quad, I was taken in by the Great Post War brainwashing but I did notice these Anglo Jewish prejudices. Today I am an unbeliever but I do love to see Jones’ in your face traditional Catholicism showing up informatively against the Judeo Anglo Protestantism which was a wrecking ball for white civilization

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  236. @Flint Clint

    Nor does Catholicism teach that we must allow anti-Christian immigration until Christianity is destroyed. Because the Church fathers and God and Jesus Christ were not perverse moronic idiots.

    Is that the best you can do for an argument? “Because God and JC were not perverse moronic idiots”

    I would like to know E Michael Jones’ position on immigration by non-Christians into Christian lands

    Question for you: Which land was Europe before the RCC burnt the last temple in Rügen?

    Western civilization isn’t Christianity alone. It’s also the European peoples, and the Greco-Roman legal and philosophical legacy.

    What philosophical legacy can a language give to Europe that uses MP as a symbol for B? And which language was used to import most of the terms in Greek(per Plato). And what European people??
    And in that line Since Nomen est Omen, are any of these similar: Raetia, Rascia,Thrace(Trakia),Etruscan,Росия(Rasija(Russia))

    Nigerians might be Catholic – they will never, ever, ever, ever be Polish. And it would be a sin of the highest order if Poland were to becoime Nigerian.

    Now you are relativizing and watering down the issue, which is: first program someone into submission through religion and then: free him of his free will and creativity

  237. @Achilles Wannabe

    When I was growing up, I encountered no Catholic prejudice. My Catholic school upbringing was prized by employers. Where I grew up, employers always hired Catholics first.

    EMJ is correct about ethnicity, but we must always place ethnicity within its racial context: Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid. EMJ refuses to do this. He understands the implications.

    It was the RCC that created the universities which led to the development of Western civilization. Protestants and Orthodox need to be reminded that the RCC was the first Christian church. We can discuss the differences later.

    EMJ and Styx666 are going to debate. This will be interesting since they are flipsides of the same cucked Western male coin. EMJ is a traditional Catholic, Styx666 is an occult paganist. One believes in magical Christianity, the other believes in magical capitalism. Both refuse to the deal with the reality of IQ and its relation to race. EMJ and Styx666 have no problems with people of other races being in the West. The only difference is in their religious beliefs. Styx666 could be EMJ’s black sheep son.

  238. GavinCato says:

    Jones can’t be more wrong on this issue. I like most of you reading this grew up in a white neighborhood. The first thing you noticed about your new neighbor or the people in the shopping mall was their race. You could know someone for years and not know their religion. To this day it is the number one thing people use when choosing a home, school, social club, restaurant, vacation, etc.

    • Replies: @Nathan Bedford Bonsai
  239. @GavinCato

    I strongly suggest Jones is being used as controlled opposition to divert people away from white identitarianism.

    His whole “race is a social construct” nonsense is indistinguishable from that of Marxist academia, only it’s more destructive because it’s operating as a Trojan horse from within the dissident right.

  240. @animalogic

    Judaism is a cult, not a religion.

  241. Sya says:

    Europeans, Dutch, French, German, Polish or Turkish Belgian, etc etc

    Americans, “Christian, Protestant, white, brown, redneck race”

    Sometimes Immigration creates Identity crisis

  242. @Rich

    Wow, these days German book publishers are trying to sell to innocent Serbian kids that Ottoman “harach” or tax in blood which was used to brainwash and build a Yannisary army was a way to advance in society.
    Are you stupid or an idiot? Between 1640 and 1650 population of Ireland fell from 1.5 million to 600,000 are you trying to tell me the Irish left Ireland because of altruism? And at the same time Parents we’re separated from their kids from altruism?
    Next time you try to humiliate your self in public, please think twice.

  243. Danesovic says:

    But you had that for 2000 years and we ended up here again. Plus, most people are moving away from religion as it’s simply not convincing enough. IMO, we need identity for white gentiles, some of who will be christian, some pagan and some atheist.

    • Replies: @4justice
  244. 4justice says:

    Part of what is intriguing about Christianity is that it did manage to protect Western people from Jewish domination for centuries. We need to at the very least have a better understanding of how it was able to do this. Of course the Church and Christianity have been demonized and targeted for destruction by Jewish forces in academia, the media and government. The religion that this society was founded on and is still the majority religion is being demonized as an intolerant hate group. Pagens are not under such attack. Could this be in part due to the protective power that Christianity gives to freeing oneself from Jewish criminal industries such as usury, gambling, pornography, and addictive substances? An atheist Jew can feel just fine becoming Pagen and promoting Pagen rituals, it is only Christianity that a Jew is required to reject. In fact, Jews are prominent in promoting Solstice parades in liberal cities while insisting that Christmas events be retermed “Holiday events.” Pagenism is very compatible with the corrosive industries meant to weaken our families and thus our society.

    If you define yourself as a subset (white) of the negation of Jews -Gentiles – that is a hollow identity that provides no values on which to rally around and protect yourselves. It will offer up your young people as empty vessels to have their values provided to them by Hollywood and Maddison Avenue – both of which align with Jewish Power that has more interest in making them weak willed hungry consumers than making them strong, resilient, responsible and wise. I continue to be open minded, but if Jewish power finds Christianity threatening, then we might at the very least want to better understand why so that those protective features can be preserved.

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