I don’t want visit another Western country
 

Replies: @Joe Wong, @littlereddot

Instead of just “the compass”, let's talk about navigation in general.
Instead of just “printing”, let's talk about bookmaking in general.

In both fields, Europe was way ahead of China.
Even with printing and the compass, China could not have achieved what Europe achieved, because there are other, more important, more fundamental technologies involved, which Europe has always had, and China has always lacked.

Let’s start with navigation.
Look at this European map from the early 1300s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portolan_chart#/media/File:Mediterranean_chart_fourteenth_century2.jpg
It’s very precise, already as early as that era.
This one is a bit later, from 1492.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portolan_chart#/media/File:Jorge_Aguiar_1492_MR.jpg

The Chinese did not have precise maps.
The Chinese would never have been able to make one, because they were so backwards, they didn’t know that the world was round.
THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT THE WORLD WAS ROUND.
Without the spherical model of the world, which Europeans have had since the Greeks, you cannot have the concepts of “latitude” and “longitude”, which Europeans also have had since the Greeks. Therefore you cannot develop a precise method to determine latitude using an astrolabe. Which is more important than the compass, since we can find the north by the north star.
Therefore the Chinese could not have had an Age of Sail.

As for books, the Chinese were set back by the lack of another key technology, which even today they still lack.
Namely, THE ALPHABET.

The alphabet was necessary for two reasons. The main reason is that, without the alphabet, there is not much advantage to movable type printing. The alphabet, combined with movable printing, enabled Europeans to print very efficiently.

The second reason is that, without the alphabet, the bulk of the population will find it difficult to master literacy. Now, it’s hard to obtain a reliable estimate of historical literacy rates in either China or Europe. But the main problem is that you can’t draw direct comparisons, because the gigantic number of Chinese characters means there is no clear definition of what it means to be “literate”. A person may be able to read some basic words, but not enough to read the Chinese classics. In contrast, a Westerner who learns how to read will be able to read anything in his language. This amplifies the usefulness of the printing press.

The superiority of the alphabet has been recognized even in China:

https://www.zhihu.com/question/36621372/answer/125962850

In addition, a key element of the Gutenberg press was the screw. The printing press comes from the screw press. Europeans have had screws since the Greek, but the Chinese DID NOT HAVE SCREWS until we taught them about screws. They did not have screws of any kind. Therefore they could not have invented a proper printing press.

Replies: @littlereddot, @Joe Wong, @antibeast, @Vidi

I don't remember the specific context of the conversation, I am not against the death penalty in principle. This conversation was over twenty years ago, I suspect it was about the NUMBER of executions in China.

Anyway, his argument is that I did not understand why China needed so many executions. I think I understand better now. The reason is the incivility of the Chinese, which having read about Chinese history, I understand better now.

Replies: @Joe Wong

I do not agree at all, nor would most other objective observers.
 

You are presumptous to use the word "most". To you Westerners, "most" means the West. You forget that the West only makes up 12% of the world population.

I doubt anyone will come to your assistance with proof after taking a look at these two old cities on the Internet.

 

I have only shown you pictures of the specific elements of cities because that is what you wanted to see.

Even in its present state, it has plenty of pretty urban spaces. As China continues to get affluent, it will be able to afford to spruce up many of its other old historic sites.

This is a taste of what is to come X 10 in the coming decades.

This is from a single small town in some far flung corner of China.

https://www.chinaxiantour.com/media/2023/06/Lijiang-Black-Dragon-Pool-head.webp

https://www.asiaodysseytravel.com/images/china-tours/group-tours/lijiang-old-town-700-18.jpg

https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/0f/16/fe/c6/lijiang-old-town.jpg?w=900&h=500&s=1

https://yourenotfromaroundhere.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/lijiang-canal.jpg

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/C80HC3/china-yunnan-lijiang-the-old-town-at-dusk-C80HC3.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1kCG7qXtosbOmkGyNzs-GYdjrdy1chqTE0Q&s

Replies: @Top Lel, @Joe Wong

Replies: @Henry Ford, @arbeit macht frei, @mulga mumblebrain, @Joe Wong, @Hua Bin

In China, a large outdoor space does not have the same social or recreational meaning as in Europe. So large large outdoor gathering space would typically be used mostly for ceremonial purposes.
 

Replies: @littlereddot, @littlereddot, @Joe Wong

If the death toll of the famine was as high as the Western media claimed, we would have launched an uprising long ago with our bad temper.
After all, historically, we have had wars and uprisings for most of the 2,500 years except for the years of CPC rule.
Besides, even if that many people did die, it was a natural disaster. Leaders have nothing to do with it.
The Yellow River, an overland river, is flooded several times a year. In the American rescue model, if Westerners lived here they would be feeding the fish in the river.
But it doesn't matter. Let them smear.
They better think we're not all the murderers they think we are.
说真的，有时候真觉得西方媒体嘴欠，应该找点刺头杀杀全家。

Replies: @Joe Wong, @Anonymous

It is verified that DeepSeek does some amount "piggybacking." But there is controversy over exactly how many, and whom, they've distilled. I'll provide evidence that they've done a lot of "piggybacking". (I'll focus on the "piggyback" part specifically since the budget part is something that is not controversial)

The process of "piggybacking" on other models is technically called "knowledge distillation." It's not unheard of for academics to do this with Open-Source AIs (https://www.ft.com/content/a0dfedd1-5255-4fa9-8ccc-1fe01de87ea6).

It is fact that Deepseek distills at least some models, because they've admitted and released them. DeepSeek has released distilled models of Meta's Open-Source Llama AI, which anybody can download here: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/machine-learning/deploy-deepseek-r1-distilled-llama-models-with-amazon-bedrock-custom-model-import/

I believe that distillation of Llama might have been against its terms, but maybe not. But Llama is also open-source, so everybody knows that there is no way to enforce a rule against distillation. Nobody will fight for such a rule, because of this. It's against the spirit of open-source, anyways. Any person can just download Llama.

But such things are against the terms of OpenAI, which is not open-source.

There is excellent evidence that DeepSeek is largely distilling OpenAI.

1. The first is from this article. Some random guy asked DeepSeek "Are you smarter than Gemini" and DeepSeek responded by calling itself ChatGPT!!!!. It's almost inconcievable that DeepSeek would have thought of itself as being ChatGPT unless it was distilling answers or text from ChatGPT output. The screenshot evidence is in this article: https://www.techradar.com/computing/artificial-intelligence/deepseek-just-insisted-its-chatgpt-and-i-think-thats-all-the-proof-i-need

A little while after these things were found, DeepSeek's stopped calling itself ChatGPT. It's likely that the develoers put in a hasty fix to stop outputting such text.

2. The second bit of evidence come from cybersecurity folks, which I won't go into detail, but it has to do with data flows from certain accounts that seemed to be engaging in distillation. This behavior was noticed and investigated last year, before this DeepSeek news even hit the public; the investigators strongly believe that the accounts that were doing this were from DeepSeek. It's mentioned in this article: https://www.ft.com/content/a0dfedd1-5255-4fa9-8ccc-1fe01de87ea6

3. The third bit of evidence is actually an investigation from a different AI: Originality AI! Yes, indeed! Some smart guy actually used an AI to investigate the controversy of whether DeepSeek copied ChatGPT! Originality is an AI that measures other AIs! In particular, it tries to find if different AIs are .... you guessed it, original. It can also predict if a response likely came from an AI or from a human.

This AI found that it could predict DeepSeek responses with uncanny accuracy. They have great experience looking at each new AI as they hit the public, and in the past, when they see a new AI, they have a large drop in predictive power of the AI's responses. The fact that they could predict DeepSeek so well indicates, to them, that it is probably a distillation of other AIs that they've already seen. They set up the AI to predict based on ChatGPT knowledge, specifically, and they believe that they have shown decent proof of this. The report is here: https://originality.ai/blog/is-deepseek-detectable

A little explanation of how Originality did it is explained to normal folk like us in this article, which linked me to the Originality AI website: https://bgr.com/tech/ai-that-can-identify-chatgpt-generated-text-suggests-deepseek-might-be-a-copy/

I think that, just based on evidence 1), the argument that DeepSeek has copied ChatGPT is overwhelming.

Replies: @Jim Haslam, @Ron Unz, @Vidi, @Joe Wong

FTR he is a different Anon.

But, @Anon[382], you seem to miss the critical portion of the problem.

The problem is that, if ChatGPT builds models iteratively (a.k.a. building its models off of previous versions of its own models) over the course of [say] 10 years of company history, at the end of the day, the world looks at their newest model, and says, "it required you 10 years and xxx billion dollars to get that model." Because, the world is keeping a cumulative tally on how much time and money OpenAI has sunk into all of its work.

But if DeepSeek comes along and does knowledge distillation on a ChatGPT that is the cumulative effort of 10 years of development, and it becomes almost as good in 6 months, the world looks and says, "OMG you guys did it so much faster and cheaper!"

When the reality is that they are accumulating the effort of another company - which FWIW is a company that makes knowledge distillation to be against its terms of service. I'll repeat - it is not legal for a company to do this knowledge distillation on another company's product.

Basically, it's like any other Intellectual Property. The hard part is getting it right the first time. Once a thing is made, one can copy it far more easily. So IP law exists to allow the originators to profit from the long, hard work they did.

Replies: @Joe Wong

Replies: @Joe Wong

I'm the "dirty troll".

As I said in a previous comment, Xinjiang terrorism is comparable in scope to the terrorism we experienced here in Italy in the 70s.

I'm not a fan of those terrorists.

But if in Italy we had resorted to the same methods (arbitrary detention on a massive scale), it would have been considered an act of tyranny. Because, you see, here in the West we believe that people have rights, unlike in China. Fortunately we didn't have to resort to those methods. Turns out you can crush terrorism without having to put people in concentration camps without charge. In fact, one of the reasons that in recent years we haven't had the Islamic terrorism problems that countries such as France have had, or China, is thanks to the previous experience of our police in rooting out terrorism. Maybe the Chinese should ask our police how it's done.

But my main point is that China is tyrannical. If they treat Muslims like that, they can treat Christians like that, whenever they decide. China is tyrannical. For example, everybody knows that there is heavy censorship over there. The Unz Review could not exist over there. Another example: no Western country would accept a one child policy. We would regard it as despotic. The Chinese have gotten rid of that policy, not because they've become more freedom loving, but because right now they don't need it. When they need it again, they'll go back to outlawing babies. If you're a loyal subject of Xi, you're free to believe that this stuff is awesome. But I'm speaking to Westerners here. If you're a Westerner, you don't want to live in that hell. So don't pretend it's paradise.

Replies: @迪路, @Top Lel, @Joe Wong, @mulga mumblebrain, @Corrupt

You can’t dispute what Francis Bacon wrote in 1620, that Chinese inventions revolutionized European life. So you put up a false strawman and attack that instead. The Strawman tactic is usually considered dishonest.
 

Never trust a man with black hair. These are words to live by.

Replies: @迪路, @Joe Wong, @Vidi

Why do some historical facts hurt you so much that you need to use the lies-laced Straw-man Fallacy to smear John M. Hobson?
 

Replies: @Joe Wong

One purpose of the Jesuits' visit was to investigate discrepancies (as they saw it) in the meticulous Chinese historical calendar. For potential differences, see First Millenium Revisionist's articles on this site. The writer was really Laurent Guyenot, who later revealed his identity.

Replies: @Joe Wong

It seems “The Eastern Origins of Western Civilization” by John M. Hobson is not a heresy.
 

Both Agriculture and Metal Working originated in the Middle East/Egypt and appeared in Chinkland hundreds of years afterwards.

As for those 49 Heritage sites in China, it is an absolutely PITIFUL number.

China has 3.7 million square miles ... around the same as ALL of Europe, meaning Heritage sites per square mile, is WAY WAY lower then in Europe. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Replies: @Bankotsu, @Joe Wong

He would have been more accurate if he had written a book called “The Middle Eastern Origins of Western Civilization”. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Both Agriculture and Metal Working originated in the Middle East/Egypt and appeared in Chinkland hundreds of years afterwards.
 

This view easily leads to neglect of the real influences of Asia on Europe, since these arose from artifacts and technology, often received without any European awareness of their origin (as European men over recent centuries came to wear trousers without knowledge of their Asiatic steppe origin.)

In his introduction Lach makes the astounding assertion that “knowledge of Asia before 1500 effected no fundamental alterations in Europe’s own artistic, technological, or religious premises.” In view of the fact that Europe’s technology and religious premises until 1500 were almost entirely Asiatic in origin, this statement indicates a very serious deficiency based on the author’s almost exclusively literary bias.

While we cannot judge the extent of this deficiency until we get volume II, the first chapter of the present volume dealing with “Antiquity and the Middle Ages” indicates that this weakness could be very serious. In good, old mid-Victorian fashion, Lach starts with a reference to Homer and, on the same first page, begins his subject about 600 B.C. This omits the whole Asiatic foundation of European culture including food (fowl, swine, cattle, grain), technology (the plow, arch, wheel, weapons, etc.), and basic culture (writing, alphabet, units of measurement, basic religious and cognitive attitudes) from the archaic period (before 600 B.C.).

But even more serious is the fact that Lach’s discussion of the medieval period also omits the same kind of Asiatic influences (such as Europe’s basic religious outlook, including the heresies, and much technological innovation which, over the last thousand years, has embraced such items as horseshoes, stirrups, effective harnessing of horses so they could be used for heavy work, windmills, the compass and rudder, fore-and-aft sails, an efficient number system, gunpowder, printing and paper, steel-making, a variety of crops of vital significance to Western agriculture, among them those two indispensable legumes, alfalfa and soybeans, many food products, and much else).

Lach ignores most of this because be is not concerned, as he says, with the “impact” of Asia on Europe but is really concerned only with Europe’s awareness of Asia (that is why he wants to restrict his attention to published information), and he is concerned with “awareness” because his attention is still anchored in the area where it began, the use of Asia by men like Montesquieu, Leibnitz, or Voltaire as a weapon to criticize European culture during the Enlightenment….”

http://www.carrollquigley.net/book-reviews/What_the_West_Has_Learned.htm

“…Even in Parkinson’s day under the great Queen Victoria every school boy knew Ex Oriente Lux.

Europe’s peoples and languages came from the east as did the very basic attributes of European life: its food (wheat, beef, lamb, swine, fowls), its textiles (wool, linen, cotton, silk), its systems of measures (12 eggs in a dozen, 12 inches in a foot, 12 hours in the day and in the night, 60 minutes in the hour), its basic technology (writing, the wheel, paper, printing type, gun powder, the plow, the number system), and those three major targets of Parkinson’s antipathy, governmental bureaucracy, taxation, and state regulation of economic life. Even today, a London economic consultant wears trousers and a jacket slashed in the rear so that the sides will hang straight as he sits on his horse, attire derived from a Turkic cultural predecessor in the central Asian grasslands of two millennia ago…”

http://www.carrollquigley.net/book-reviews/New_Book_by_C_Northcote_Parkinson.htm

The Evolution of Civilizations

Tragedy and Hope: A history of the World in our Time

Weapons Systems and Political Stability

by Carroll Quigley

http://www.carrollquigley.net/books.htm

Replies: @Joe Wong, @Vidi

Replies: @Brian Damage, @Joe Wong

OK.

Per the about page on their website, china.org.cn is an 'authorized government portal site to China, published under the auspices of the State Council Information Office and the China International Publishing Group in Beijing' -- here's their story about it:

Toppled Shanghai residential building dismantled

So again: how dumb does that make the Chinese?

Replies: @Joe Wong

The official date the renaissance began was 1341 when an Italian Pretarch organized a poetry festival in Rome. Much of the poetry was not contemporary but mostly Ancient Greek and some Ancient Roman.

1341 the date recognized by all historians.

Matteo Ricci went to China in 1582 240 years later. He never returned to Europe. He did learn one of the Chinese languages probably Mandarin. He intensively studied China. He did write some articles comparing Confucianism and Christianity He never brought then to theVatican. He never left China. He sent his writings about Confucianism to the Jesuit headquarters He was a Jesuit. . As all those religious scholars of every religion wrote about comparative religions .

Ricci went to China 240 years after the Renaissance began. By the time Ricci went to China the Renaissance had ended and the early modern era began.

The ignorance on this site never ceases to amaze.

Replies: @Vidi, @Joe Wong

If I recall correctly, the Chinese general also pointed out in 2003 that China should be patient and allow the rapidly disintegrating US to destroy itself—to which he could have added, at the hands of the Democratic Party’s nonstop war to annihilate white America, as well as at the hands of seemingly outright traitors like the Biden family and countless others within our federal and state governments.
 

Replies: @Joe Wong

You watched the Grammy Awards. Consider what that means about you. How could you? Do you read People magazine too? Watch the Kardashians? Never miss TMZ?

It was Arabs that invaded Europe from about 700 AD to the early 1800s. Arabs are White Caucasians. So are Turks. And there were so many Slavic slaves in the Turkish armies and Turkey that Turkish DNA is 42 percent Slavic. Persians are White Aryans. Are you aware that at the Muslim slave auctions the women were displayed to the buyers completely naked?

There are Asian and African Muslims. But the majority of Muslims have always been White Caucasians.

The absolute ignorance of the Men of Unz never ceases to amaze. You watch the Grammys.

Replies: @Joe Wong

>Americans are one degree dumber than the dumbest Europeans

This isn't the topic here, but if you're looking for problems with modern American buildings, you could also mention Millennium Tower in San Francisco.

However in 2009, an entire brand new residential highrise in Shanghai fell over:

Shanghai probes building collapse

(Per previous experience: -- one person died, and I don't wish to make light of that.)

So in your estimation, how dumb does that make the Chinese?

Replies: @Joe Wong

Corruption can be blamed for this--but I think IQ factors are more likely.
The dumbest European builder would understand the concept of fastening a window.

I think the claims about China's superiority are mostly media fabrication.
Reality is China needs to connect with the US to gain western technology--it then grafted with Germany for a time--and now Russia.
There's a pattern.

I also wonder if Confucius and the Art of War were some kind of hoax. When did China become experts on warfare?
Did I miss something in their glorious history of famous warriors that no one in the West has ever heard of other than the Art of War author? And was he talked about before China went communist?

Replies: @Joe Wong, @mulga mumblebrain

The Chinese Civil Service which was founded during the Han Dynasty would continue to function as the political administration of the Chinese State and the cultural authority on Chinese Civilization even under foreign rule such as the during the Mongol Yuan and Manchu Qing Dynasties or during intermittent periods of political disunity.

By contrast, the English Civil Service which consists of selecting a highly-educated political class of administrative officials based on competitive examinations was founded only in 1855.
 

Replies: @Joe Wong

IMHO the only way there will be a war between the US and China is if one side were to develop a radical new weapon system that would lay waste to the opposing side completely and instantly. there can be no other way, otherwise it's glow in the dark time for everyone. the leadership of both countries know this. hopefully one side or the other doesn't gain that capability and the will to use it. god help us all.

Replies: @Joe Wong, @1951

Replies: @Joe Wong

I think you got it wrong my friend. This model is based on how we learn. It teaches you how to think.
Here is a video about the deepseek r1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_izsSNkgW0

Replies: @Joe Wong, @Che Guava, @kicktheroos

But almost simultaneously with those bold words, that AI propaganda-bubble suddenly burst. A small, totally unknown Chinese AI company called DeepSeek released a new AI system that was very comparable to the best of America’s AI models, but built at tiny fraction of their cost. Once DeepSeek’s effectiveness was confirmed, it became the #1 app downloaded on the Apple store, and also inspired days of front-page stories all across the world

Thus, even as Trump was bragging of his plans for a half-trillion-dollar investment in AI, a small Chinese firm had delivered an excellent AI system that only cost $5.6 million, a figure 99.999% lower, with that system created using only second-tier AI chips and far fewer of those. Indeed, some people pointed out that the entire development cost of the DeepSeek AI was much less than the annual salary of many individual American AI experts. The financial implications were obvious and within the next day or so a trillion dollars of the stock market value of AI-related American corporations evaporated.
 

Replies: @Ron Unz, @Murali, @Carlton Meyer, @Anonymous45, @Joe Wong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2FSJoR74oQ

Replies: @Joe Wong, @mulga mumblebrain

Replies: @Anonymous, @John Dael, @Joe Wong, @Joe Wong

Replies: @Joe Wong, @vox4non

There’s a technique in AI called distillation, which you’re going to hear a lot about. It’s when one model learns from another model,” Sacks explained to Fox News. “Effectively, the student model asks the parent model millions of questions, mimicking the reasoning process and absorbing knowledge.”

“They can essentially extract the knowledge out of the model,” he continued. “There’s substantial evidence that what DeepSeek did here was distill knowledge from OpenAI’s models.” “I don’t think OpenAI is too happy about this,” Sacks added.
 

Replies: @Joe Wong, @showmethereal

What is the reason why anyone other than a complete mad man would initiate a bioweapon into the air, that would spread across the globe and kill people? An action like that would be counter intuitive to the life force.

What would be the reason to do that?

Forget the research, whatever research the US was engaged in was probably due to chemical warfare that was used in WW1, and was used to find a cure or a vaccine for a bioweapon aimed at us.


The only people who would engage in a deadly bio weapon would be a mad man. As I said before an unstable force. It makes no sense. Like all of your conspiracies, it lacks common sense.

Wherever I have traveled in this country or any other country I have found humans to be kind and wanting to connect and bond. That is what humans are about.

Maybe you are not human Ron. But no one I know would ever engage in the release of a bioweapon into space. Again for what reason, just cause it would be interesting?

What is the gain, if you and your enemies are going to get sick and die?

Replies: @littlereddot, @Joe Wong, @Truth Vigilante, @Anonymous 1, @Wokechoke, @Al Liguori

Replies: @Joe Wong

I didn't get the Chinese flu... I am immune from it.

I do not know the number of "Pajeets" working for the company other than its front man Pichai, who is giving cover to the Jewish guys who own the bulk of the shares. But regardless of the number, they do NOT run the company just as the actors do not run Hollywood. Now go get a brain scan to make sure you are still alive and not brain dead!

Replies: @Joe Wong, @Gvaltar

Replies: @Ayax, @Proteus Procrustes, @Zumbuddi, @Joe Wong

If Google is really "run" by Indians then I have a bridge to sell you in Shanghai!

Replies: @Joe Wong

C.I.A.’s Chatbot Stands In for World Leaders
The spy agency is trying to give its teams better tools and make it easier for the private sector to develop technology for their secretive work.
By Julian E. Barnes
Jan. 18, 2025

Understanding leaders around the world is one of the C.I.A.’s most important jobs. Teams of analysts comb through intelligence collected by spies and publicly available information to create profiles of leaders that can predict behaviors.

A chatbot powered by artificial intelligence now helps do that work.

Over the last two years, the Central Intelligence Agency has developed a tool that allows analysts to talk to virtual versions of foreign presidents and prime ministers, who answer back.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/18/us/politics/cia-chatbot-technology.html?unlocked_article_code=1.qU4.ewJH.Y67Tn8psaZWH&smid=url-share
 

Replies: @Joe Wong

Replies: @Abdul Alhazred, @Joe Wong, @Bruce Arney

Replies: @Anonymous, @John Dael, @Joe Wong, @Joe Wong

Indians are low-IQ (the average IQ of Indians is 76) and not even third world. They are fourth world.
 

But, like I said, I don't want ANY second, third, or fourth-world immigrants - zero - and millions who are already here I want deported. For the next few decades the USA should only accept geniuses, top scientists, engineers, super-beautiful women, the world's greatest talent, and super creators like Elon Musk.

Replies: @J, @Malla, @Joe Wong, @CCG

Replies: @Joe Wong, @mulga mumblebrain, @Anonymous534, @Biff, @Biff, @迪路, @JR Foley, @Passing by, @anon, @USA invades Israel, @Hua Bin, @Mr. Burns, @OliverPeeples, @Poopsie

Replies: @Pythas, @Joe Wong, @Sarah, @Pythas

Replies: @Joe Wong, @Richard B

Thanks for a very informative article! I am generally positive with regard to China, but I do see one major deficiency which is not generally mentioned. Maybe it is not mentioned because it is assumed to be obvious but I think it is important to mention and that it colors many things about China. That thing is that China has a one party government. This means that information and facts coming from the Chinese are likely to be unreliable. More importantly, China is actually held back, in economics and development and education, by a one party rule. That president Xi wants a legacy as important as Mao's legacy is a bad sign because a one party system will allow him much lee way for his approach. A leader wanting a big legacy is CORRUPTION, not of money, but of spirit. I hope that the Chinese government will see that any leader building a legacy is a major corruption issue, and will cost the people money and resources.

Replies: @mulga mumblebrain, @Joe Wong

That is one of the three big concerns regarding China:

global debt to china 5 trillion

industrial output

and her huge population

Serious matters no doubt

Replies: @Joe Wong

1. China is backward country with a backward political system, people are repressed.
OR
2. China ain’t so bad. The people are happy, and 90% support their government.

The real question to me, is how are you going to find out which one is true?
 

Replies: @littlereddot, @mulga mumblebrain, @Joe Wong

Qi Gong is just one of the rituals like many rituals the ‘god-fearing’ morally defunct evil ‘Puritan’ cult practised in churches, schools etc. to brainwash and indoctrinate people into sheeple and zombies to be enslaved and abused.
 

FLG is minuscule compared to Christians and Muslims in China.
 

FLG was banned because of its Mafia-style organized criminal activities, harvesting organs from its followers and violence on the street getting out of hand
 

The USA sends anyone suspected of national security threats to Guantanamo Bay to be investigated via torture without proof,
 

Replies: @Joe Wong

If the charge is true, then that is a legitimate issue for the US to raise, Mr Unz.

Replies: @anon, @Joe Wong

Bullshit. FLG was recruited by the CIA long ago, and its guru lives in luxury in New York City.
 

Replies: @mulga mumblebrain, @Joe Wong

If the Americans cannot take critical criticism and act upon it to improve themselves, it is their loss. The rest of the world welcomes the Americans to walk their path over the cliff like the Romans. The world had had enough of the American's psychotic toddler's destruction and whining.

The rest of the world needs to move on to build a better future for humanity without carrying on the burden of caring for a psychotic toddler.

Replies: @antibeast

Maybe because China sends thousands of spies and thieves into America to steal everything they can including military technology. Chinese are naturally corrupt and while many have a good level of intelligence, they lack inventive skills and imagination. They copy what they steal from us and they are pretty good at that I guess. They are mostly just mindless worker ants who live off the inventiveness and imaginativeness of Whites.

Replies: @antibeast, @jaybird, @Joe Wong, @Voltarde, @showmethereal

Replies: @Joe Wong

Replies: @peripatetic commenter, @Joe Wong, @antibeast

Libertarian is the facade of the ‘god-fearing’ morally defunct evil ‘Puritan’ cult
 

Chinese can access Western information
 

unlike the West which blocks their people’s view about China and the rest of the world with thick-weaved anti-China propaganda and national security fake news
 

Replies: @littlereddot, @Joe Wong, @迪路

Is this a joke, or a sad example of lifelong brainwashing?
 

Replies: @Joe Wong, @mulga mumblebrain, @迪路

Replies: @deejay, @Dieter Kief, @Gerry, @Tallest Skil, @Joe Wong, @Kal Zakath, @Anon

A reputable source:

https://www.soapcentral.com/entertainment/news-that-accident-phrase-like-that-internet-reacts-stephen-miller-s-america-americans-americans-only-comment-trump-rally

All that liteCommInc has done, of course, is "projecting".

Projection Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

Merriam-Webster

https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › projec...

What does it mean when people are projecting?

When someone says ``You're projecting,'' they typically mean that the person is attributing their own thoughts, feelings, or behaviors onto someone else. This psychological concept, known as projection, occurs when an individual unconsciously transfers their own undesirable traits or emotions onto another person.
 

Replies: @Joe Wong, @littlereddot

The Chinese Navy cannot defend cargo ships bringing oil and raw materials to China or delivering finished goods to the rest of the world. The world trade and transport system is based on good will and mutual respect which can be undercut by politicians and their masters. China can defend the first and second island chains but this is not enough. Western submarines can sink any cargo ship in the world; any time, any place. Beijing can threaten nuclear war, but they are the most vulnerable with so many huge cities. The Western war in Ukraine may determine how this plays out. India may be the wild card.

Replies: @littlereddot, @littlereddot, @Joe Wong, @antibeast

Replies: @Pheasant, @kicktheroos, @anonymous, @Joe Wong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAYbgViYxpg

Replies: @Felpudinho, @Joe Wong

Replies: @Commentator Mike, @Trumpeter, @Joe Wong, @shawn james

You ever read a history book? History is pretty much just people trying to make their own families, clans, tribes, or nations stronger--which seems to come at the expense of those with natural resources they are not developing. I doubt that either of us would want to go back to the Bronze Age civilization people romanticize from their air-conditioned homes. Fortunately, my family as recently as the 1920s were shitting in outhouses and wiping their asses with corncobs. They went on to serve in World War II and enjoy the prosperity that followed. Including running water and air-conditioning.

Replies: @Joe Wong

In 2012, National Review fired John Derbyshire for his column on “The Talk,” a term blacks use for warning their children about the racism and discrimination they will supposedly face from whites. Mr. Derbyshire turned “The Talk” around and offered examples of how non-black parents should prepare their kids for interactions with blacks. His advice included the following:

“A small cohort of blacks — in my experience, around five percent — is ferociously hostile to whites and will go to great lengths to inconvenience or harm us. A much larger cohort of blacks — around half — will go along passively if the five percent take leadership in some event. They will do this out of racial solidarity, the natural willingness of most human beings to be led, and a vague feeling that whites have it coming.”
 

Replies: @Thelma Ringbaum, @Goldgettin, @Event Horizon, @Joe Wong

The Entire World Relies on a Machine Made by ONE Company


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shuv9-MJBEU


Why The World Relies On ASML For Machines That Print Chips


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSVHp6CAyQ8

Replies: @Joe Wong, @loner feral cat

.☆☆☆☠️☆☆☆ ®[AP©CALYPSE NOW NEWS]™ ☆☆☆☠️☆☆☆.
https://thegovernmentrag.com/articles/the-genocidal-knot-around-humanitys-neck-tightens-every-year/
https://thegovernmentrag.com/articles/the-real-jewish-problem-part-3-john-beatys-1951-expose-the-iron-curtain-over-america-foresaw-todays-nightmarish-future/

 

Replies: @Joe Wong

Replies: @Thomasina, @Automatic Slim, @ThreeCranes, @trevor, @Joe Levantine, @Hulkamania, @Joe Wong, @Anonymous, @Hua Bin, @Eric Novak

The British forces were evacuated at Dunkirk and there’s quite a lot of evidence that Hitler deliberately allowed them to escape as a face-saving gesture rather than ordering them captured. He followed his victory in France by offering extremely generous terms to the British government, making no demands against them and instead proposing a German alliance, including military support for protecting the security of their worldwide empire. Hitler naturally believed that they would accept such an attractive offer and end the war, which he assumed was essentially over.

Several of the top British leaders seemed eager to make peace on Hitler’s generous terms, and according to the evidence found by renowned British historian David Irving, Prime Minister Winston Churchill himself seemed willing to do so before changing his mind and pulling back. Churchill had spent decades seeking to become Prime Minister, and Irving plausibly argues he realized that losing a disastrous war within weeks of finally achieving that position would have rendered him a laughingstock in the history books.

But given Britain’s military defeat on the Continent and the very generous terms Hitler was offering, Churchill faced a huge problem in persuading his country to continue a war that was widely regarded as lost. Therefore, he began ordering a series of bombing raids against the German capital, an illegal war crime, hoping to provoke a German response. This led Hitler to repeatedly warn that if they continued bombing his cities, he would be forced to retaliate in kind, and he finally did so. Since the British public was unaware that their own government had initiated the campaign of urban bombing, they regarded those retaliatory German aerial attacks as monstrous, unprovoked war crimes, and just as Churchill had hoped, they became fully committed to continuing the war against Germany.

Irving and others explain all these important facts in their books, and a riveting Irving lecture summarizing his information is still available on Bitchute after having been purged from Youtube.
 

Until recently, my familiarity with Churchill had been rather cursory, and Irving’s revelations were absolutely eye-opening. Perhaps the most striking single discovery was the remarkable venality and corruption of the man, with Churchill being a huge spendthrift who lived lavishly and often far beyond his financial means, employing an army of dozens of personal servants at his large country estate despite frequently lacking any regular and assured sources of income to maintain them. This predicament naturally put him at the mercy of those individuals willing to support his sumptuous lifestyle in exchange for determining his political activities. And somewhat similar pecuniary means were used to secure the backing of a network of other political figures from across all the British parties, who became Churchill’s close political allies.

To put things in plain language, during the years leading up to the Second World War, both Churchill and numerous other fellow British MPs were regularly receiving sizable financial stipends—cash bribes—from Jewish and Czech sources in exchange for promoting a policy of extreme hostility toward the German government and actually advocating war. The sums involved were quite considerable, with the Czech government alone probably making payments that amounted to tens of millions of dollars in present-day money to British elected officials, publishers, and journalists working to overturn the official peace policy of their existing government. A particularly notable instance occurred in early 1938 when Churchill suddenly lost all his accumulated wealth in a foolish gamble on the American stock-market, and was soon forced to put his beloved country estate up for sale to avoid personal bankruptcy, only to quickly be bailed out by a foreign Jewish millionaire intent upon promoting a war against Germany. Indeed, the early stages of Churchill’s involvement in this sordid behavior are recounted in an Irving chapter aptly entitled “The Hired Help.”

Ironically enough, German Intelligence learned of this massive bribery of British parliamentarians, and passed the information along to Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, who was horrified to discover the corrupt motives of his fierce political opponents, but apparently remained too much of a gentlemen to have them arrested and prosecuted. I’m no expert in the British laws of that era, but for elected officials to do the bidding of foreigners on matters of war and peace in exchange for huge secret payments seems almost a textbook example of treason to me, and I think that Churchill’s timely execution would surely have saved tens of millions of lives.
 

Replies: @Paul Greenwood, @S1, @Wokechoke, @Joe Wong, @Patrick Cleburne, @Patrick Cleburne, @Incitatus, @Incitatus

This is sort of off topic, but highly relevant as China are burning more coal than the rest of the world put together - in order to make the electric cars, solar panels and wind turbines which the western nations have mandated that their citizens use (from January, for example, it will be illegal in the UK to start work on a house to be heated by gas).

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/dec/18/coal-use-to-reach-new-peak-and-remain-at-near-record-levels-for-years

"Coal use to reach new peak – and remain at near-record levels for years"

Back on topic, you have published (or republished) Eamonn Fingleton articles from 1995 to 2017 - what do you think of his thesis that

a) the economic systems of Japan/China/Korea/Taiwan are not capitalism as the West understands it, protected home markets being only one of the differences

b) they are however much more successful

c) that this is very bad news for the west, but already a sufficient number of western thought leaders have been compromised/bought that the west is sleepwalking into dependence. The idea of Brits driving Chinese cars, for example, would have been laughable ten years ago.China owns one of Britain's last two steel plants - India owns the other.

Replies: @Joe Wong, @littlereddot, @Mark G., @emil nikola richard

I'm not in America so I don't watch Fox News.

Your article relativized the tainted food scandals in China by pointing to milder instances of corporate cost-cutting in America. That's your argument? Whataboutism? And the problem of too much sugar, salt, preservatives, aspartame etc. is not exactly unknown, not even to the Americans who gladly ingest processed junk. In China the main ingredient itself is counterfeited, so there's just no comparison.

A few years back you might recall the story of the Chinese restaurant that was lacing its food with opium from poppies so that its diners would become addicted. It worked too. This isn't Fox News, this was reported in Chinese media as well as Western. The astonishing thing is that after the news coverage there were dozens of restaurateurs caught emulating the tactic, such is the business acumen and bottomless greed in China.

As for America's food scandals I wonder just how many are actually perpetrated by traditional Americans. Are you aware that the largest vintage wine fraud in history was perpetrated in California by a Chinese guy from Malaysia? Rudy Kurniawan. What's next? Documenting all of the financial criminals like Marc Rich, Pincus Green, Bernie Madoff and Sam Bankman-Fried and concluding that they're just as American as Billy-Jake and Bobby-Sue?

The only people praising this article are ethnic Chinese and those who are misplacing a (somewhat deserved) cynicism of the West. I think Ron has developed a sweet tooth for the Brix -- pardon I mean BRICS -- alliance which has been overly romanticized in recent years. It seems a lot like when it comes to American Pravda vs Chinese Pravda, Unz sooner believes the latter. I think the Russians, who have long disliked the Chinese, take the right approach in making it a minimally trustful cooperation of convenience.

Since people are in the habit of posting digital pamphlets all over the comments section I am going to recommend David Zhang, a non-employee of Fox News, as I think his hours of video assemblage is much more convincing than ditzy Americans on Spling Bleak picking berries on the roadside in Urumqi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA78KBYNEbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoqYzXXYQi4

Replies: @Joe Wong, @antibeast, @Ron Unz

Make Western Civilization great again! Dishonesty was its downfall! Honesty can fix it.

TOTAL HONESTY, and intolerance for deception, can change the world for the better. One simple rule! Honesty is the #1 necessity for a modern scientific society

PC deception and lies are the CAUSE for the downfall of Western civilization. Total honesty and full disclosure are the antidote.

Leftist dishonesty has corrupted social sciences1, journalism, and has brainwashed entire populations. Thus dishonesty has perverted elections2, and caused great harm.

Do not take my word for this! Let us study the evidence, without “racism” and “sexism” taboos, without repression of factually true #HateFacts, without restrictions on #TrueSpeech.

 

“A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.” (West Point: Honor Code)

… yet lie (by omission) about “racist” and “sexist” facts (#HateFacts)

“a single-sanction Honor Code, in which any offense results in expulsion regardless of severity” [Some academic institutions have]
“like the military system, it considers tolerance of a violation itself a violation”
“A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.” (West Point: Honor Code)
Such single-sanction Honor Code is even more strict than our 4HONESTY code

4HONESTY could learn from West Point code’s strict rigor regarding
“single-sanction punishment”: one strike and you are out
“tolerance of a violation itself a violation”


If we model our 4HONESTY code after this, we could not tolerate
the dishonest media gag orders that mandate lying by lying by omission
the NYT or any MSM, FBI and CIA who got caught red-handed lying about the Hunter Biden’s laptop1, the Russia hoax2, “hands-up-don’t-shoot”3, …



 

Replies: @Vidi, @Bama, @Joe Wong, @RadicalCenter

To the extent that it's possible to be reflective on his point of view, I think Trump sees the USA's decline in nearly every sphere of national activity as catastrophic and getting close to irreversible.

I personally have no hope for the healthy future of this country.

I served for a few years in the Foreign Service during the years when Freemen would have been on his career ascendancy. I know what kind of a world and what kind of a foreign policy he believes in. In Unz's selected passages, Freeman talks dismissively about the perceived effects of unrestricted immigration on the "lower middle-class" of our nation. There's the flaw in his world view.

China probably has a settled and accepted approach to the relationship between those favored by fortune and those less favored. I don't know China, but the thousands of years of cultural growth must give most of the Chinese a sense of psychic security that our young country can't possibly provide. I doubt that the elite of China could succeed intellectually for long while separating their aspirations from the aspirations of the common citizen. I'd think that was settled for all time in the Cultural Revolution.

Spare me the adulation for Freeman.

Trump was elected by paying attention to the effects our national decline are having on the "lower middle-class".

Replies: @Joe Wong

Oh well fair enough.

Well the book shows the structure of Chinese government. Which happens to be very large and unwieldy. The Chinese state is like nine aircraft carriers chained together, and it is the job of the communist party to keep them from crashing into each other and to keep them going the same direction without a chain breaking. The parts of the book about Xi Jinping, did it not surprise you how much training state officials have to go through, it is a long apprenticeship in learning how to govern, government officials in training are assigned to poor provinces and assessed on how they do. Imagine if to be a senator or president you had to first be governor of West Virginia. These people really have to work hard for their positions in government.

Did it also not surprise you that the central government is actually not that powerful. The central government decides policies but it is up to the provincial government to implement it if they wish and to the degree that they wish. Quite a few sections were about how the central government at times struggles to get policy implemented and heavily weigh the reactions and conditions of provincial and local governments. I was surprised to see that the provincial and local governments had such a strong independence and maybe even the upper hand than the central government. Americans think of China as being a strong central state, but if America had system closer to China, states could just ignore implementing laws as they wish. Governing China is very very hard much more difficult than governing the US or other countries.

the book is not supposed to be a big shocker, but it is the only text written in English that presents a view of the Chinese state as it is, with real events, people and organisations. I wouldn't be surprised if 98% or more of the proper nouns in the book, were never before written or translated into English (aside from whatever materials intelligence agencies have in their archives)

Replies: @Joe Wong

In my never ending quest to aid the eating habits of a down on his luck Commie Chink Bastard, who himself claimed that he has an $18 a month food budget for multiple people, enjoy the following video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAtWvGcbm1k

Enjoy!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Replies: @Joe Wong, @littlereddot, @迪路

Chinese civilisation is too different from Western civilisation for any white guy from West to understand.

 

Replies: @Joe Wong, @littlereddot

The question then, will he be listened to or will he turn into another voice in the wilderness. Given Trump's record, I think the latter and we will all be the poorer for it.

Replies: @Joe Wong, @Emslander

Replies: @Exile in Paradise, @Victor G., @Levtraro, @Joe Wong

https://heavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/453928-20130829-2002081.jpg

 

If the Pentagon can’t do an accounting of where its money goes, can you imagine what’s going on with an amorphous federal government entity with zero accountability and no one can know because it’s all TS/SCI/Need-to-know classified information.

Can you imagine if/when the activities are made known to people and they learn how trillions of dollars were spent over decades to funnel money into financing the destabilization of foreign countries though brides, underwriting SV/tech to establish the AZE surveillance state, et al.?!

People will realize that no foreign enemy could’ve done more damage to this country than what its intelligence and MIC has done to it.

Replies: @Joe Wong, @ServesyouallWhite

A year ago, I commented that Jews "played" themselves by supporting wokeness and persecuting the MAGA element. The result was that woke people supported Palestine and the MAGA crowd were too demoralized to support Israel.

Little did I suspect that 12 months later, wokeness would be roundly defeated, and Trump and his MAGAs would be back in the saddle, ready to serve Israel without limit.

Zionists have total control over the USA.

Replies: @NoBodyImportant, @Joe Wong

"Success?"

It came on the backs of US citizens as our industries moved over there and the trade deficit widened.

Replies: @Joe Wong

Replies: @Joe Wong

PPP is NOT a ratio, it exists to equalize the Real GDP using a standard measure, e.g., comparing apples to apples. A country can increase GDP by deficit spending, because it adds to the the amount of money circulated. There are other parasitic ways to boost GDP, and sleigh of hands that essentially accounting tricks. Falsification of government data is another one. For example, the official government (Dept of Labor statistics) says this:

https://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data

The REAL GDP of the USSA is in fact significantly lower. To compare the economy of the JUSA to Russia and other countries, a multiplier factor must be used to revise the other countries' GDP to dollars using a multi-faceted set of tools. I have already posted this reference.

Thus, the stated nominal GDP of Russia must be multiplied by 1.52 to compare to the USA to Russia to convert to the universal PPP, upon which all economies can be compared. This standard methodology is overseen and maintained by the World Bank as the authority. Example:

What is Russia's GDP in PPP?
$2.0 trillion (nominal; 2023 est.) $5.2 trillion (PPP; 2023 est.) >>https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gdp+and+ppp+of+russia&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Overall, in the calendar year 2023, the United States' Nominal GDP at Current Prices totaled at $27.360 trillion, as compared to $25.744 trillion in 2022. The three U.S. states with the highest GDPs were California ($3.86 trillion), Texas ($2.56 trillion), and New York ($2.15 trillion).
All US GDP numbers are equivalent to PPP.

PPP per capita of USA = 7 6, 329
PPP per capita of Russia = 40,000

To those that pay attention, the economic statistics of Americur are unreliable, cooked, manipulated, falsified, and a general fraud.

What is the average cost of living in Russia?
Summary of cost of living in Russia: A family of four estimated monthly costs are 1,780.7$ (159,066.4руб) without rent. A single person estimated monthly costs are 509.7$ (45,530.4руб) without rent. Cost of living in Russia is, on average, 57.9% lower than in United States.

United States is 3.6 times more expensive than Russia.

Current Government statistics shows American economy growth at 5%, while the actual growth is a negative (-1%).

https://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/gross-domestic-product-charts

https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/cost-of-living/russia/united-states

PAY 3.5 TIMES MORE FOR GROCERIES
PAY 3.2 TIMES MORE FOR RESTAURANTS
PAY 2.5 TIMES MORE FOR TRANSPORTATION
PAY 6.1 TIMES MORE FOR HOUSING

You are both stupid and a serial liar, Johnstein. Adding to your stupidity is your belief that you can con and put one over the folks here at TUR.
May your hemorrhoids fall out and get caught in a closing door.

Replies: @Joe Wong