So your ire is because they get others to do their dirty work for them? But isn't that what a master race does -- gets others to do its bidding? The ants enslave the aphids, and the Zionists enslave you. On the principles you advocate, there is no basis for complaint. Wise up and obey them. Maybe they will appoint you as a trustee in their global prison.

Replies: @geokat62

geokat62, I was lampooning the fact that many of you guys are all about a master race until you find out that one viable candidate for the master race is a bunch of people that doesn't include you.

Replies: @geokat62

geokat62, just so you know where I'm coming from... There are many who believe in "scientific" racism, claim the Jews manipulate the whole world, and they despise the Jews, and yet they hold these views all at the same time. It is a perfectly ridiculous confluence of junk science, utter credulity for idiotic conspiracy theories, and arrant prejudice, all rolled into one oddball wad.

If there is such a thing as a master race, and if the Jews could actually do everything they're blamed for doing, they would certainly be the master race.

So you should probably rethink your approach, geokat.

Replies: @solontoCroesus, @geokat62

Replies: @geokat62, @solontoCroesus, @Anonymous, @Immigrant from former USSR, @Sure Thing, @Wally, @Anonymous, @RW

He did. That was what the bombing the aspirin factory in Sudan was all about. The protracted skirmish in southeastern Europe was also, in my private opinion, a wag-the-dog operation.

Plus, it provided Hillary with some real combat action as she got out of her jet under heavy sniper fire. ;-D

Replies: @geokat62

The Canadian prime minister is a deeply committed Zionist.

Canada also has a huge, politically active Ukrainian community that nurses an almost pathological hostility towards Russia.

Replies: @geokat62

Are you just pretending to be stupid ? Stop equating neocon's agenda with all Jews. Most of the world's Jewry has nothing to do with it, BUT suffers the blowbacks the hardest because of the anti-semitic shits like you. You think Cheney and W. and H.W. and countless other gentiles are jews too ? How simplistic must you be ?

Replies: @geokat62, @KenH

Replies: @geokat62, @anonymous

Thank you. I actually mean it. Not for the "revelations", but for the earnestness and "depth" of obsessive justification in twisting the facts.
On a humorous side, have you and the rest paid attention to Pamela Geller's website ? The commenters there remind me of those here, but "obviously" enthralled by her vile and conniving manipulations (only SOME humor here) and oh, so obviously gentile. You might want to expand you powers of persuasion there.
As for your extensive knowledge of history of Jewish machinations - I'll leave you with this :
What is missing is the positives, without which YOUR "civilization" would still be just out of dark ages - all the scientists, researchers, medical professionals, social progressives. Regardless of ideological slants it boils down to this - we are smarter. If there were smarter gentiles in all those instances, where, according to your versions of events above, the conniving scheming Jews gained upper hand, maybe, just maybe, the results would have been more balanced and socially acceptable. Be it "evil" Jews or the well-meaning, naive, idealistic, socially progressive fools like me, I usually see the lack of competition on the "other" side. Coming from former Soviet Union I can personally testify to the following : it was my parents (a Jew and a Cossack) and Jewish grandparents that pounded into me the importance of education, education, and more education - simply because being a Jew in Russia, even Soviet Russia, if you were not at the very top, as a Jew , you were NOTHING. The second thing they taught me was social justice no matter who, what, and where. Third item down the line - stand up and fight, because if you don't the anti-semites will get you no matter your beliefs and deeds. I' ve always ridiculed them vis-a-vis the last one. Fight I did, from age 6, only when provoked. I've raised my 2 daughters firmly grounded in "do unto others" and greater good. Having tasted the logic from the likes of you and others on this site (among many) the only conclusion I can reach is that I also need to make sure they are more skilled at survival - and if history is a guide , we will survive no matter what - and moderating their "greater good" impulses to the point of reversing them. My take away from this encounter is that we will be blamed for others' stupidity and cruelty no matter what. And for the final "shot across the bow" - my advice to the gentiles bemoaning the vile jewish machinations - get more brains and see if you can dominate all those fields you claim we are so good at. Good luck, because once you decide to climb out of the cesspool, you will find the smell lingers for a long time.
Oh, yeah, also - guess where the opinions encountered here would lead those like me - square;y into swinging into the camp I've managed to despise so far - supporting Bibi et al. I might have to pinch my nose shut and close my eyes, but, it might be a small price to pay to avoid next series of pogroms.

Replies: @geokat62, @Digital Samizdat

I think that you may be denying that anti-semitism exists here on unz.com, which is not right. There is a clear minority of extremists here.

I personally fully agree with Seamus Padraig that all Jews cannot be blamed for what the Zio-heads and the necon mad-dogs say and do. There is a stronger case for a division between the rich (0.01%) and the rest of us, then for Jews versus Gentiles. But there is a higher proportion of Jews on that rich side and some individuals are incapable of distinguishing what matters. Simply, a bankster is a bankster, Jewish or not. Even the mad-dog necons have many Gentile followers and servants: the whole of GOP, the Congress, and so on. So should we blame all the Jews because so many lazy-sacks in a human form like licking rich-men's behinds (best description of the Congress)?

Replies: @geokat62

And how would you know I failed at #2 ? Kindly point to any part of my rants that indicate that vis-a-vis Palestinians and in general. I may clearly disagree with proscribed "norms" for a "good" Jew but, in my case, I think, it's more of a personal "bristle" rather than from being Jewish. Felt the same way when required to sing Soviet hymn and Marine Corps hymn.

Replies: @geokat62

You, sir, don't seem to know what it took for a Jew to be accepted to a good University in Russia or get ahead in general. "We" also built Oral Roberts Law School. whoopdeedoo. And, if you paid attention, yes, most of the world DOES think of USA as dumb. If it was not for constant influx of fresh brains from outside it would still be Dark Ages here. Want an example : the 2 most recent answers to me. Not at any point in time did I imply, say or show any Zionist streaks or mention Palestine. If anything , my earlier posts clearly indicated quite the opposite. I guess one sees what one expects. One thing I won't EVER do is be a good jew according to your terms. Channelling McCarthy much, perhaps ?

Replies: @geokat62

thank you for the link, geokat2.

We have been discussing C Bradley Thompson's appearance at a CATO forum to discuss his book, "Neoconservatism: An Obituary for An Idea" http://www.cato.org/events/neoconservatism-obituary-idea#

Replies: @geokat62

Read the quote of mine that you quoted (“…guess where the opinions encountered here would lead those like me – squarely into swinging into the camp I’ve managed to despise so far – supporting Bibi et al….”) carefully. It means exactly what it says. The operative words are "would... and despise". The opinions I've encountered HERE may force me to support the likes of Bibi despite everything I believe in out of sheer preservation instinct because neither I nor the rest of my family will ever thump our chests to prove our "good" jewishness. I don't need to declare my allegiances where I see anti-semitism for the sake of anti-semitism.

Replies: @geokat62, @annamaria

"And, by the way, there has been not a peep from Anti-Defamation League re the rise of neo-Nazis in Ukraine. Why so? Perhaps because the neo-Nazis are useful for achieving the grandiose plans of the bloodthirsty neocons’ crowd, many of them zionists? So much for the victims of Jewish Holocaust. Do you see a pattern or you are preparing to protest “blood libel?” "
Frankly it baffles and scares the hell out of me. I, for one, do NOT understand why would any Jews be in Ukraine given its history. The sheep usually pay the price for the sins of the few. That is what gets me going - the rhetoric that lumps Jews, vast majority of whom have nothing in common with the neocons and their agenda, all together. We, as people, are not responsible for the actions of the evil few. You, on the other hand, do not seem to see the difference between the evil-doers and those they came from. Don't forget - Hitler was not remembered for being Christian...

Replies: @geokat62, @solontoCroesus

"The innocent Muslims are saying exactly the same thing, but they are, nonetheless, being forced to denounce “those they came from.” "
So Murdoch is Jewish ? Because it seems to me the Fox News is the loudest in trying to get Muslims to denounce the extremists. It is a vile practice no matter who is at the receiving end.

"The special relationship" thorn : I am , and would, were it not for the company I would find myself in. Comments here indicate the preponderance of hateful fanatics I would never want to be with. Ditto for Pam Geller's site. Breitbarts of this world, etc.
This is the conundrum most Jews find themselves in : while completely objecting to Most Israeli/neocon policies they have severe revulsion to the likes of most commenters here (hence my very first post on this thread) . NOT condescending here, but I find it similar to my like for Camaros and tattoos while having ABSOLUTELY nothing in common with either crowd. Go figure.

Replies: @geokat62

See, the problem is that most Jews out of Russia have first hand knowledge of rhetoric that precedes and covers up plain anti-semitism and brutality. It ranges from "our kind of kike " - the "good jew" to "the kike our parents did not finish off". Physical assault follows, even in public. This was the reality for most of us. I've gotten good at fistfights by the time I turned 8. Self-preservation comes first. The rhetoric here is very telling and I am willing to bet most Jews, no matter how compassionate and progressive, would recoil from the likes of commenters here. You have to at least realize how uncouth the views expressed here are. The refusal to separate the few from the whole people is monolithic. You maintain your own interpretation of what I say no matter what . Enjoy.
I guess fight it is. Not to imply you are the cause, just the confirmation for me on what to prepare my kids for. I can guarantee you one thing, though - they won't be a compassionate as me. Tribalism I guess is a necessity for us. And that's too bad.

Replies: @geokat62

"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness; only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?"
- George Orwell (O’Brien to Winston Smith, “1984”)

Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith, @geokat62

As I have said on the Unz Review you can count on Daniel Pipes to be careful. And, surely, Islamism based on a wish to return to the tribal primitivism of an inspired illiterate merchant of the 7th century cleaving to a book which expresses deadly attitudes to unbelievers and subordinates women is fairly, if not strictly accurately, called "fascist".

Replies: @geokat62, @solontoCroesus, @KA, @KA

Indeed.

I would note to readers that Senator Ben Cardin, preening after the Senate voted 98-1 to pass his bill, commented "There is bipartisan concurrence that we do not trust Iran." Seems to confirm my analysis, doesn't it?

Replies: @geokat62

It was Tom Cotton because he wanted the bill to be much stronger and easier to use to block Obama!

Replies: @geokat62

This is meant to be - and started as - a response to KA but will serve also as some sort of response to SolontoCroesus

Thanks for your response - I'm on the move and not sure how my one finger/thumb manoeuvres on the phone are keeping up so mention that this is a response to KA. I haven't time right now to follow up the links and leads but have read the 2006 Lew Rockwell piece by John Liechty which is outstanding (thanks for the link in an earlier post). I particularly note the balance which allows him to acknowledge that Steyn - whom he nails - is often witty and even right.

For the moment I quibble at the implications of Israel as a garrison settler state or the suggestion that absurd claims based on partly mythical claims about forebears dispossessing other Canaanite tribes have got anything much to do with arguments used to try and preserve Israel as a state not swamped by people of very different culture and intolerant religion (different in numerical potency from the many other intolerant religions and naturally frightening people who see that the ISIL (or Taliban) brand can take over large populations and territories.

That's not the Israel I have visited.

Mind you I can't really feel what it is to be and feel Jewish (which I am not). It was typical of the people I spent time with in Israel that one was an American "Jewish atheist" with lapsed Catholic sons in law. Perhaps he would, like Einstein, have described Israelis as "my tribe".

I see that SolontoCroesus has posted some stuff on Pipes pêre et fils which will help my follow up on Daniel Pipes who appears not to have been as careful in the past as he is now. ("Mugged by reality?"). I had already found references to his father (who seemed a mild little man when I met him in his earlier old age) which suggested perhaps a similarity of temperament with his son. Father it seems may have overestimated Soviet strength even more than the CIA apparently did 35 years ago (though that may be unfair: Team B was appointed in 1975). I think DP believes in the threat posed by Iran to Israel as serious. And Iran with the Ayatollahs still in charge plus Revolutionary Guard can hardly be regarded as nothing much to worry about if it obtains nuclear weapons. Sometimes people mean what they say.

The arrogant, ill-informed, stupid and incompetent performance of America in the ME** does not mean that Israel's case for existence without being swamped by Palestinian Muslim voters doesn't need strong support in the US by AIPAC or whomever since the left withdrew its support after 1967.

**It could be argued that supporters like Australia's PM John Howard went too far in genuine support for Bush the Less's adventure but, given that it was probably still far too early for Australia to decide to no longer be the US's ever reliable loyal little (or medium size) friend, Howard's achievement of having only one soldier killed in Iraq looks pretty good - not least because he accidentally shot himself in his bunk room.

**************

As it seems agreed - and correct - that Ariel Sharon's unilateral withdrawal from Gaza was a great blunder I am no longer so inclined to speculate that developments of what Daniel Pipes calls "Israeli towns" on the West Bank and in East Jerusalem are possible bargaining chips. The DP view that peace will only come when the Palestinians accept that they are beaten is probably right. If Hamas had a Lee Kwan Yew who could make Gaza an economically prosperous polity instead of a source of random terrorist rocket attacks on Israeli civilians there would be little problem.

Replies: @Ronald Thomas West, @geokat62, @KA

Of course Palestinians (of whom there very few before WW1) came to object to Jewish settlement stirred up by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem but, by omission, you concede the point I was making about opinion in leading centres of modern civilisation. I don't claim to be expert (and clearly no one commenting on this blog is) but the right of Zionists to buy land under the Ottomans and subsequently establish a Jewish National Home under the League of Nations mandate was no doubt fortified by the ince clear legal doctrine of terra nullius which, for example, for 200 years governed the treating of land hunted over by Australian hunter gatherers from time immemorial as "terra nullius". Roughly speaking, hunter gatherers, usually nomadic, were not treated as having reduced the land to ownership. There is a somewhat analogous argument, based I think on fact and certainly supported by subsequent development of land requiring drip irrigation, desalination plants and renewable energy, that the Palestinians living in Ottoman Palestine had done very little with the land. They would add that the "Palestiniaan" was greatly increased by people attracted by Jewish economic developments. That is btw as my real point was that people like us weren't, as far as I know, raising ethical objections.

As to your Finkelstein quote iisn't it just plain silly to equate the aiming potentially (and sometimes actually) lethal rockets inat civilian targets in their thousands with scratches? How could the US and any number of allies bomb and invade Afghanistan (I wouldn't have invaded fwiw) just because a handful of highjackers had managed to kill rather publicly a fraction of the number of Americans killed on the roads each year and an even smaller fraction of those murdered?

I would overlook your illustrating Godwin's law - even your curious spelling of Goebbels, but for the fact that it points to your complete lack of answer to the passage you parody and shows up your carelessness in searching round to an analogy for Sharia law by referring to the Torah which certainly contains commands which would already have looked primitive to almost everyone even in the 7th century AD but which have nothing to do with the remarkably secular - though inconsistent -state of Israel.

Replies: @geokat62

This problem is thoroughly human. The racists who seized control of a bankrupted Germany in the 1930s infamously claimed that Germans who were Jewish really were not German because they weren't civilized or fully human, even going so far as to term them vermin. The societal problems had been allowed to fester and grow to become insoluble by normal political means, so unscrupulous power seekers offered up phoney scapegoats to blame.

But of course the Jews in Germany were German and as fully human as any of us. Thus it should be no surprise that some demagogues who happen to be Jewish have arisen and gained power based on the seemingly insoluble contradictions inherent in modern Israel, an anachronism in our modern age, a nation that still confers full citizenship on the basis of a single religion and supposed race. Obviously, this is an anomaly in our modern world - nations that practiced apartheid, as in late Afrikaaner South Africa became pariah states. The irony is not that a nuclear armed South Africa's last ally was Israel, but that a nation of people persecuted and subjected to racist genocide should adopt the very definitions of citizenship and deformed human rights of their persecutors as their own.

Hannah Arendt, a leading philosopher of the 20th century who bequeathed to us a deeper understanding of the origins of totalitarianism, recognized that a persecuted people can be betrayed by their own leaders, who cooperate in their holocaust with oppressors. This is an old story, that conquest never occurs without betrayal and collaboration. Arendt, Jewish herself, became an outcast among unthinking Zionists for her truth-telling, which opposed the sort of bifurcations about good and evil of whole peoples that Geller propagates.

The banality of evil is that very ordinary people with extraordinarily tone deaf consciences, such as Geller, can become through their moral blindness the very Eichmanns they supposedly oppose, and if unopposed, lead others down the same historically destructive paths. In an America where so many are in financial straits from which donorized politicians have no answers for us, Geller's scapegoating message that creates a distracting illusion of "enemies" to fight and destroy also powers the very profitable drive for wars, as it has in the past.

Replies: @geokat62, @joe webb, @Anonymous

I hate to disagree with you geokatt62 and also with Fran Macadam because I frequently respect your thoughtful comments.

I think Fran's analysis is based on an incomplete and distorted historical account of WWI, the events of the intervening period, and of WWII (plus the decade or so afterward).

Rather than type another of what I consider a more accurate history of "the whole offense", consider the situation more factually and less from the "philosophical" viewpoint:

Fran wrote: "History proves that every ethnic group has among it the intolerant and mad, which history also teaches it is important to recognize and call out, as too often these megalomaniacs have infected whole countries by sowing fear through their demagoguery, especially in times of financial insecurity.
This problem is thoroughly human.

The racists who seized control of a bankrupted Germany in the 1930s infamously claimed that Germans who were Jewish really were not German because they weren’t civilized or fully human, even going so far as to term them vermin. The societal problems had been allowed to fester and grow to become insoluble by normal political means, so unscrupulous power seekers offered up phoney scapegoats to blame.
But of course the Jews in Germany were German and as fully human as any of us."

Germany's ambassador Hans Luther rejected the charge of bigotry. According to a report in the Jewish Telegraph, in comments in New York in May 1933, Luther said:

Prejudice against the Jews, he said, was due to their tendency toward movements of a communistic nature, and to the fact that nearly fifty percent of the government officails have been Jews, although the total Jewish population was only one percent. He denied emphatically that there had been any “atrocities”.

He asserted that limitation of Jewish influence in Germany was being conducted with the greatest possible consideration toward the old native Jewish families who, he said; had proven themselves good Germans and indicated that it was directed against the Eastern European Jews who had overflooded the country since the War. . . .

Dr. Luther described the misery of German students who had to wait for years after graduating in order to obtain positions in the professions. Even before the War, he said, the legal and medical professions in Berlin, Frankfurt and other large cities were almost monopolized by certain people whose activities the German people could not consider as German.

After the War, came the influx of East European Jews, he declared. Because of Germany’s political prostration, there was no means of excluding undesirable immigrants such as other nations had. Before the War, he said, anti-Semitism in Germany had no political importance. Later, this inclination against the elements which had a leading role in Marxist stories contributed greatly to the embitterment of the people.

Dr. Luther asked newspapermen present not to forget that of 1,700 Jewish lawyers in Berlin, 1,200 had been considered worthy of being readmitted to practice. The measures against the Jews, he asserted, were taken only that those Jews who are alien to the German nation, should not continue any longer in important judicial and administrative posts.

He also praised the character of the Nazi revolution which he described as bloodless.
 

No vermin.
No "inhuman Jews."
No name calling.

Check Luther's facts and complaints: did they comport with reality, and were they legitimate grievances, given the state of Germany post-war, post-famine, post-revolution, and in the context of Versailles treaty obligations that nearly the entire world, including many of the people who drafted the Treaty, agreed were outrageously and dangerously inequitable.

Also, consider how American would react to an "influx" of foreign nationals intent on subverting the American political order. How would the American people react? How would the American people demand that their government respond to shore up American Constitutional principles in the face of an attack by outsiders who sought to impose an alien system of government?

Were Bolshevik Communists infiltrating Germany and attempting to subvert its political system?

[Grigory Zinoviev] was a Bolshevik revolutionary and a Soviet Communist politician. He was one of the seven members of the first legendary Politburo, founded in 1917 in order to manage the Bolshevik Revolution. . .
Zinoviev is best remembered as the longtime head of the Communist International and the architect of several failed attempts to transform Germany into a communist country during the early 1920s. He was in competition against Joseph Stalin who eliminated him from the Soviet political leadership. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Zinoviev#
 

Zinoviev's activities in Germany frequently involved street-riots and assassinations.

How were the German people faring in the midst of political and economic turmoil?

from "Lords of Finance: The Bankers who Broke the World," by Liaquat Ahamed:

"On Nov. 5 [1923] the price of a two-kilo loaf of bread had soared from 20 billion marks to 140 billion, sparking off nationwide riots. In Berlin, thousands of men and women had paraded the streets, shouting "Bread and work!" Over a thousand shops -- bakeries, butchers, and even clothing stores--had been looted. . . . cars were held up and their occupants robbed. In the heavily Jewish areas . . .anyone who was known to be Jewish, or "looked Jewish" had been attacked by gangs of young hoodlums. The worst violence was directed at Galician Jews, [Galicia: region in Eastern Europe that straddles Poland and Ukraine] many of whom had their distinctive beards scissored off or their clothes ripped away. The Borse, the stock exchange, had come under siege by a mob shouting, "Kill the Borse Jews."

By the end of the evening on Nov 8, the streets were at last quiet, the mobs dispersed at bayonet point by military police. Heavily armed Prussian state police in green uniforms now patrolled the city. . . .the weather turned extremely cold. That night it began to rain, making life even more difficult for those innumerable Berliners forced to queue up outside the municipal food kitchens and public feeding stations spread across the city. . . .

Despite the riots and the rain, the infamously louche and tawdry nightlife of Berlin--that "new Babylon of the world" -- continued unabated. ...along the Kurfurstendamm, the bars and dance halls were, as always, full. As on every night, hordes of prostitutes of both sexes--there were said to be a hundred thousand of them in Berlin alone--paraded outside . . . "A kind of madness" had taken hold of the city, unhinging the whole society. Fortunes were made overnight and as quickly lost or dissipated. Those with money, desperate to get rid of it before it became worthless, indulged in giddy frenzies of spending, while those without sold what few possessions remained to them, including their bodies, in the struggle to survive. A quarter of the city's schoolchildren suffered from malnutrition.

Berlin had never been an elegant city. . . .But it had rightly prided itself on being the cleanest and most modern metropolis in Europe. Now it was shabby and going to seed, faded and run down like a "stone-grey corpse," infested by "beggars, whores, invalids and fat-necked speculators," its streets crowded by "legless war veterans riding the sidewalks on rolling planks" and by stunted, bowlegged children bent out of shape by rickets."
 

One major point to absorb is that anger toward Jews in Germany was from the bottom-up and not top-down. As will be noted later, once the NSDAP gained power, they quelled unrest especially toward Jews.

Another detail to make note of is the malnourished condition of German children.

Far too few histories of WWI and of Germany spend an adequate amount of time on the implications and consequences of the fact that 800,000 German civilians were starved to death as a result of the blockade of Germany that included previously-proscribed foodstuffs in World War I. It is estimated that between 35,000 and 50,000 of those deaths occurred as a consequence of the extension of the blockade for almost a year after Germany's surrender, which was done in order to coerce Germany to sign Versailles treaty.

Based on the cavalier treatment of those 800,000 deaths in Edwin Black's "The Transfer Agreement," coupled with the fact that Jewish aid societies were active in Poland and Germany to ensure that Jews in those states had access to either direct food aid or the black market, it is reasonable to suppose that very few if any Jewish people were among the dead or among the rickets-afflicted children that crowded German orphanages in the post-war period.

Try to think how you would react if your niece or grandchild starved to death, or if your daughter's newborn lived but suffered for the rest of his life because of nutritional deficiencies during his gestation and early days -- a child forever physically and neurologically damaged.

Precisely those situations occurred throughout Germany in the post-war period. When Jewish leaders -- Samuel Untermyer, Stephen Wise, Louis Brandeis among others -- sought to implement Brandeis's directive of Feb. 14, 1933 that "all Jews must leave Germany," one of the tactics used was the imposition of a boycott of German exports "upon which Germany's existence depended" -- it was a deliberate existential threat to Germany.

Moreover, as Black explains, the tactic of boycott was employed precisely because the Jewish leaders who planned it were well aware that a boycott would summon up from present memory the dread and horror experienced in the WWI famine.

----

Was Hans Luther lying through his teeth when he claimed that no atrocities occurred in Germany, or were the propagandists working overtime to demonize Germany and recycling WWI atrocity propaganda to do so?

Here's how Richard Breitman and Allen Lichtman help us to discover the reality of the situation:

"[B]efore the war Nazi oppression of German Jews followed a jagged trajectory. Some Nazi activists physically assaulted Jews in the early exuberant days of Hitler's semi legal revolution. Once secure in their authority, Nazi officials curbed personal violence but enacted a series of discriminatory laws and decrees . . .against Jews. Only in late 1938 . . .for the first time, the Gestapo imprisoned tens of thousands of German Jews in concentration camps that also held other alleged enemies of Hitler's new Reich." http://www.amazon.com/FDR-Jews-Richard-Breitman/dp/0674416740/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431559925&sr=8-1&keywords=fdr+and+the+jews
 

Thus, between Hitler's accession to power in Jan. 1933 and mid-November 1938, Jews were neither the target of physical violence nor detained in camps.

Nevertheless, as Rabbi Stephen Wise recorded in his autobiography, by Feb. 14, 1933 Louis Brandeis had directed that "all Jews must leave Germany." Wise was tasked with removing "587,000 German Jews" from Germany, preferably to Palestine.

The import of Brandeis's directive cannot be overstated.

As Wise also notes in his autobiography, most Jews did not wish to leave Germany. Wise refused to honor the numerous requests he received from German Jews to call off the anti-German agitation being carried out by Jewish leaders in US, Britain and Poland. At one such anti-German rally in Philadelphia, only three German Jews were part of the crowd.

One of the tactics used to whip up stress in Germany was the boycott, first announced in a British newspaper report on March 24, 1933, Judea Declare[d] War On Germany; Jews of All the World Unite In Action [to]Boycott German Goods." The goal was to destroy Germany's export trade, which "Germany depended upon for its existence."

Without export trade, Germany could not acquire the currency necessary to pay Poland the transit fees that Poland demanded to ship coal across now-Polish East Prussia and into Germany. Coal was essential to German industry as well as to heat German homes.

Edwin Black explains in "The Transfer Agreement" that the Jewish leaders who organized the boycott were perfectly well aware of the gut-wrenching fear that a boycott would provoke in Germans who had a present memory of mass starvation in WWI.

Given these few facts and circumstances, Fran Macadam, I don't ascribe the actions of Germany's leaders to "megalomania" or "demagoguery" or "racism." German leaders reacted to dire circumstances in as measured and "bloodless" a way as could be accomplished to achieve goals essential for the wellbeing of the German people -- to whom they were responsible. Between 1933 and late 1938 they were successful, both in protecting the Jewish people and in re-establishing order and civility among the German people.

As Eric Margolis pointed out in a recent article, Stalin killed far more people than Adolf Hitler, including 6 million Ukrainians liquidated in the early 1930’s. While Stalin was starving 6 million Ukrainians and Jewish leaders were boycotting Germany, invoking the specter of starvation among Germans, Germans were "curbing personal violence against Jews."

In the logic that has come to characterize American foreign policy, Germany was made the enemy and Stalin the ally.

The absurdity of evil.

Replies: @geokat62

Replies: @geokat62

Those who deny the Jewish Holocaust or the Armenian Genocide are no different.
To me AG denial is “fighting words”.
 

The alleged Jewish holocaust is just that -- alleged, not proved with evidence and facts assessed logically; one more appropriately uses the term propagandized. No documents exist that give evidence that Germany planned, intended and carried out the extermination by gas chamber of Jews.

On the other hand, at the Cathedral in Joffa, the Armenian quarter in Isfehan, Iran, documents signed by Armenian leaders are on display; they give instruction to subordinates for eradication of Armenians. http://irangazette.com/en/about-iran/iran-cities/shiraz/2-uncategorised/231-isfahan-vank-cathedral.html

Replies: @geokat62

Thank you for providing context that is somehow overlooked when movie-makers purport to be historians.

David Stockman and Martin Sieff were hosted by the Committee for the Republic to discuss their study of World War I ---

Entangling alliances plunged the major European powers into war. Could England have stayed out of the Great War in August 1914? Committee member Martin Sieff will explain the key role of Winston Churchill and Edward Grey in the British intervention. In 1915, Secretary of State William Jennings Bryant resigned after President Woodrow Wilson broke his campaign pledge of neutrality by selling munitions and extending loans to England and France. Taking sides created pressures which led America to go to war against Germany in April 1917. David Stockman will argue the counterfactual on U.S. entry into WWI.

American intervention in the Great War changed the course of history. American doughboys broke the stalemate and allowed the British and French armies to defeat Germany in France. American intervention in the First World War was the equivalent of a European power coming to the United States during the Civil War and saying South wins, North loses. The Treaty of Versailles repudiated Wilson’s Fourteen Points on which Germany relied in their surrender. John Maynard Keynes walked out of the peace conference denouncing Wilson’s ineptitude and hypocrisy. In the Economic Consquences of the Peace, Keynes described Wilson as an egotistical idealist without the “intellectual equipment” to negotiate effectively with David Lloyd George and George Clemenceau. In a war to “make the world safe for democracy”, the British empire acquired an additional 8.2 million people and 862,549 square miles and the French empire gained 5.6 million people and 238,168 square miles. The British and French were allowed to carve up the Middle East among themselves, assign war guilt to Germany, crush their economy with vengeful reparations, and redraw Germany’s borders leaving German populations outside their country. Congress rejected Wilson’s utopian League of Nations, declared a separate peace with Germany and the Democratic Party suffered the worst defeat in American history in the 1920 presidential election.

Transforming a European conflict into a world war and losing the peace set the stage for World War II. The Versailles Treaty laid the ground for the rise of the Nazi Party. The prolongation of WWI encouraged the communist takeover of Russia. Wilson's war of choice created the Espionage Act and violated American civil liberties. Thirty million Russians killed in WWII set up the Cold War. A hundred years after WWI, Germany is the arbiter of Europe and America is entangled in alliances around the globe. Wilson bequeathed America a civil religion that replaced the founding narrative of self-restraint and limits on power. His militant idealism -- adopted by humanitarian interventionists, neoconservatives, and assertive nationalists -- animates our foreign policy debates today. We have to “do something” constantly because Americans are a chosen people indispensable to our conception of world order. Both political parties embrace the Wilsonian narrative of America as “a force for good in the world.”

David Stockman and Martin Sieff are students of the Great War and its long shadow. David gained national recognition as Reagan’s Budget Director before going on to a career on Wall Street. Martin’s career in journalism included stints at United Press International as Managing Editor, International Affairs, and the Washington Times as Chief Foreign Correspondent.
 

 

The Committee for the Republic is a citizen-based, non-partisan, nonprofit organization founded in 2003. The Committee sponsors speakers monthly on challenges to the American Republic, including the military-industrial complex, too-big-to-fail banks, campaign finance, and U.S. competitiveness. For questions or requests email [email protected]

see also http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Committee_for_the_Republic

Replies: @geokat62

She lay down in front of a bulldozer. You try that enough times, eventually you are going to get killed.

I don't actually agree with Israel's policies against the Palestinians, but she deliberately chose a very risky form of protest and knew well the risks.

Replies: @geokat62, @solontoCroesus

Crimes don't have to follow your definition to be hauled before the court.
Like your rant,take your numbers somewhere else.
Remember those days when Armenia was trying to get a slice of Turkey in WW1 like vultures do.

Replies: @geokat62, @Avery

Yeah.

Predictably you would not want to touch on the role the west played in creating Hitler. Such as the Bush family and other bankers bankrolling Nazi Germany. Or how the west punished Germany after WW1 and how this led to the circumstance of Hitler coming to power.

Post all the tables you want to, but you are still avoiding the root cause of this misery.

When people look back at the Middle East today they may look at it as primarily Arabs killing other Arabs, but it is infact the west that is behind all the chaos. The west is the origin for the misery.

That is the point.

Replies: @geokat62

Arabs always try to embellish. Its they who started the agitation against immigrants Jews,started rejecting White Papers( UK) , and Grady commisson and UN partition plan. They attacked Israel in 1948 and again in 1967 and 1982 , 1996 and 2006. They jointly attacked Israel during Yom Kippur 1973.
They were the first who the hijacked planes and introduced the car bombs. Arabs have fascination with germ and gas agents. They have been obsessed with developing the ethnically selective germ or bio agents.

Replies: @geokat62

The fact is Giraldi is a nasty anti-Semite and admitted Holocaust denier who is on the Saudi payroll.

Israel is a powerful and thriving democracy. Whatever faults Israel has the fact remains that Arabs living within its borders are infinitely better off than Arabs living in any of the basket case Arab countries Giraldi speaks so highly of.

Let Geraldi and his ilk spew their venom all they want. Israel is here to stay.

Replies: @International Jew, @Philip Giraldi, @SolontoCroesus, @Art, @Chris Mallory, @geokat62, @Carroll Price

So, I'm not surprised with those givens, when some Jewish people support policies, even if sometimes misguided, that they believe are necessary to avoid victimhood again, a holocaust in which few of the rest of the world came to their rescue, only fighting their oppressors when they themselves felt threatened.

It's also no surprise when a nation of any human beings adopts policies that are unwise and unproductive to itself, or detrimental to the interests of another. I believe because of history, that Israel merits some special sensitivity due to past victimhood, to ensure that Jew hatred, "Judenhass," doesn't metastasize again to control powerful political and military forces. However, I also believe, along with thoughtful Jewish folks, that the Likud way is harmful to the Jewish people and Israel's long term prospects, just as the imperial military course America is now on, is harmful to domestic democratic accountability and the survival of the United States in a form that lives up to the promise of its founding documents and Constitution.

This is hardly antisemitism, since it seeks what is best for all involved, rather than repeating some of the very mistaken policies that animated conflict in the past with so much destruction and loss of lives, not to mention agitating future conflicts, including blowback for those bad policies that inevitably reaches these shores.

There is a real "Hasbara" propaganda effort, often by well-intentioned but simpleminded Jewish students who are misled into thinking that false postings as virulent antisemites and as shills for Likud's often dissembling talking points are a genuine service to the wellbeing of Israel and the diaspora. I would urge them to exercise critical thinking, become better informed and while not forsaking support for fellow Jews, try to view "the other" with genuine grievances as fellow full human beings and to try to put themselves in their shoes.

If not now, when? If not me, then who?

Replies: @OilcanFloyd, @Sam Shama, @geokat62, @Nico, @SolontoCroesus

I've noticed that numerous times, Sam the Pharaoh.

It's one more example of the knock-on effect of organizations like ADL, the holocaust industry, CAMERA, etc. censoring and controlling the discourse. No dynamic website or media outlet of broad reach that I am aware of is not gate-kept by someone who is Jewish.

I don't listen to radio anymore -- NPR has Jewish gatekeepers, the Irishmen demagogues serve Jewish masters and would not/do not stand up for Palestinian rights , for example, much less American interests in preference to Israel's and super-sensitivity to Jews similar to the position that Fran Macadam spelled out. Even Democracy Now is run by a Jewish person.

I haven't turned on a television set in years.

I do watch C Span programming and exploit its archive. C Span is massively skewed toward the Jewish-Israel pov; if a C Span moderator failed to bend the knee in front of Israel or Jewish interests, CAMERA or ADL would call him/her on the carpet. What Deborah Lipstadt did to the Connie Doebele was and is shameful and repugnant. It was also a warning that C Span journalists have absorbed: Thou shalt go this far and no farther; we are watching you.
A tally of the number of times neoconservatives have been hosted by C Span compared to the times persons or groups that I consider more representative of American interests unbiased by obeisance to Israel -- persons like Phil Giraldi, Col. Pat Lang, Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett, (who is Jewish and whom I count as a friend), Juan Cole, Stephen Cohen (also Jewish) shows a stark disparity.

nb. Speaking of Col. Lang -- his website, Sic Semper Tyrannis, offers a robust, but moderated, forum for extremely well-informed discussion and debate of US foreign policy and other topics. It does not have the reach that even a forum as limited as Unz.com enjoys. The same might be said of Moon of Alabama, Going to Tehran, and The Vineyard of the Saker.

A chart of witnesses called to give testimony before US Congress and Senate would display a similar, steep pro-Jewish pro-Israel bias. For example, yesterday Sen. Corker's committee taking testimony about a P6 -Iran agreement heard Martin Indyk, a strident zionist who has carried water for Israel and Jewish interests for over 30 years, and James Jeffrey, who similarly seems to seek to serve Israel's and Saudi Arabia's interests more zealously than those of the American people or even of the rule of law -- and common sense-- argue that the US Congress should put in place an authorization to use military force against Iran preemptively, against the possibility that an Iran agreement is not concluded, or that Iran fails to comply with an agreement that might be concluded.
This is an extraordinary proposal that mirrors very closely the activities of primarily Jewish as well as American Anglophiles and the British in engineering a war against Germany.

The informed views of

It is not unlikely that Frank Luntz or someone like him functions behind the scenes at C Span.

It is a slam-dunk certainly that C Span's 3-hour Washington Journal program functions as a focus group/conditioning agent to discern and then shape the opinions of the American people, all while appearing to be "the most fair and balanced of them all." I have compiled a back-of-the-envelope (actually, Excel sheet) of the times that various C Span moderators have said, "Do you trust Iran," or "Can we trust Iran," and compared that list with the number of times they have asked "Can we trust Israel?" Take a wild guess how that turns out.

The bottom line is that Jewish voices dominate the discourse, and that Jewish censorship functions to silence other voices and views or at very least to impose a chilling effect on expressions of views that Jews and Israelis do not wish to reach the American public.

This is as self-indicting and counterproductive to the Jewish people as it is dangerous to the sustenance of the American Constitutional republic.

"A popular Government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives." - James Madison
 

Replies: @geokat62

Dear Mr Shama,
and Mr Giraldi,


It may be that Mr Giraldi is not that familiar with the "economics" of our current "reality",
...But I AM...and I have been studying "economics" for over 35 years !
Our current predicament has little to do with the existence of the "Federal reserve" and everything to do with the fact that our "government ,under the tutelage of the Neocons" has EXCEEDED its income by close to NINE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS per year,on average,every year, over the past FIFTEEN YEARS ! This annualized deficit has MUSHROOMED our National DEBT from 5.6 trillion dollars in 2000 to over 18.25 TRILLION DOLLARS today !
How do we pay for this OBSCENE OVERSPENDING ?....we borrow money... from future generations of Americans.......... Our grand children and great grand children will have to pay back the debt we have accrued today !
That Borrowing from our FUTURE is where the FEDERAL RESERVE comes in......that Nine hundred billion has to come from somewhere....so we PRINT IT !
Yes, the Federal reserve "prints" the money we owe the future to pay off the shortfall that we create today !
...And it is this activity that creates what we all call our "National Debt" !

It is the amount of money we owe ourselves down the line for all the overspending we do today!

Now the Obama Administration has actually done a pretty good job navigating us OUT of the financial catastrophe of 2009...and he has raised taxes just enough, and cut spending just enough to generate a bit more revenue and bring our overall" OVERSPENDING" down to 500 billion per year.....that is still a lot...but, at least, it is in the right direction....
Today, the US Government brings in 3.1 trillion per year and spends 3.6 trillion per year!

It is still way too much"OVERSPENDING" for our nation to remain solvent !

On this score, Mr Giraldi is 100% correct and unfortunately for all of us, Mr Shama, its not a "TROPE" its a FACT!

To be in "Survival shape " we either need to be bringing in 3.6 and spending 3.6 ...or ... spending 3.1 trillion and and bringing in 3.1 ! Our government would, in this case, be"balancing the books", but unfortunately due to the HEINOUS NEOCON OVERSPENDING over the last fifteen years, that is still not enough to stave off our nations eventual insolvency.


To be in "Fair shape" we would want the revenue the government brings in to exceed what it spends by at least what we owe in INTEREST on our national debt..which at the "current rate" is 250 billion dollars a year. so a "fair shape" scenario would be spending 3.6 and bringing in 3.85 OR bringing in 3.1 and spending 2.85 !

This scenario balances the books, pays the interest on what we OWE... but still leaves the HUMONGOUS 18.5 trillion National debt in a "deferred state of limbo".

To be in "good shape" we would want the revenue the government brings in to exceed what it spends by enough to" balance the books" ,pay the "interest" , and then have a little more to, in fact, pay down the debt... by even a fraction....

This scenario IS the road to" solvency" , because every year the national debt is reduced ,so too is the interest we have to pay on it. Balancing the books becomes easier , over time, as less of our governments revenue is swallowed by the debt and the interest we pay on it !

Now , why is the 13 trillion dollars in NEOCON OVERSPENDING over the last 15 years so HEINOUS ?..... because most of that overspending has gone to fighting wars of aggression and ..because "Wars of Aggression: are EVIL, Mr Shama !Its what Hitler did !
The American People were "defrauded "into a war of aggression in Iraq,by the Neocons..and defrauded out of the 'trillions" we spent to wage it...To deceive us into doing that is not a "mistake" its a HEINOUS ACT OF TERRORISM !..
Now I , for one,do not give a HOOT about the "ethnicity" of the DEFRAUDERS...just that they be locked away either in Guantanamo bay or federal prison for doing it !Moreover, EVERY CENT of profit that they made from their DECEPTION needs to be returned to the American People........
I do not think Mr Giraldi cares very much about their "ethnicity" either, but in deference to the "integrity" of his character, and his thirty five years experience in his "field"...He has seen this pattern of " "aggression" , "fraud " and "deception", OVER TIME,not emanating from MOROCCO , ( for if it was Morocco, he would SAY SO) but emanating from ISRAEL and its apparent neocon acolytes in the "Office of Special Plans" !....and he doesn't like it !
Nobody does !

The American People do not like to be defrauded into killing other people that never attacked us...And we do not like to be defrauded out of ANY money let alone trillions of dollars, to do it !

Are you suggesting, Mr Shama, that we SHOULD like it ?

I appreciate President Obama's "patronage" in his ascent to the white house, and his apparent need to" tip toe" through the tulips of political temerity, but FRAUD IS FRAUD and these individuals, regardless of their "ethnicity" need to be taken down ! fluffy talk is not enough !

Replies: @geokat62, @Sam Shama

It's speculative to definitively assign bad motives to adversaries and not helpful in moving forward with solutions that reduce violence based on hatred. You are right that the policies are to protect one ethnic group's interests over another's.

In the same way, American policies are sold to our public as protecting Americans' interests over that of other peoples, thereby achieving our support for them. It would be prescient to observe that in actuality these policies are against the interests of the vast majority and benefit the same special donorist interests who have bought the policies. The beneficiaries are hardly only Jewish, and the majority of American Jews are left out of their equation as much as every other average American. We all might be guilty of not being as well informed as we ought to be in a Republic that requires more than casual public interest in accountability, but the donorists are doing their utmost to keep us uninformed and themselves unaccountable to the electorate as they move governance behind closed doors. One might say our guilt is that of misinformed self-interest that justifies their policies that we receive nothing good from. Those participating have among them those of Jewish background, but they are most assuredly not the majority, and the loyalties first and foremost are to their own claque of wealth and power, whatever secondary interests there are. An ethnic enclave does contain its own traitors, particularly in leadership.

One might expect Jews either here or in Israel to hew to a higher standard than the rest of humanity, but all we can observe is that they are in fact as human as the rest of us. As Hannah Arendt most uncomfortably reported the findings of the Eichmann trial, those who betray their own, as happened tragically during the Holocaust, do so out of vain and selfish character and raw self-interest.

There is no doubt that putting oneself out to at least try to see the adversary's point of view, might create a space of commonality where there is enough to pursue mutual goals and benefits. It is tragic that truly aggrieved groups think they cannot recognize the legitimacy of each other's suffering, out of fear that doing so will undermine their own. The reality is precisely the contrary.

Replies: @guest, @SolontoCroesus, @Nico, @geokat62

Wikipedia states:

"Invincible ignorance is the deductive fallacy of circularity where the person simply refuses to believe the argument ignoring any evidence."

 

The Catholic Encyclopedia skirts this complexity by discussing various levels of obligation to obtain knowledge:

Ignorance is lack of knowledge about a thing in a being capable of knowing [i.e. a human person].

Fundamentally speaking and with regard to a given object ignorance is the outcome of the limitations of our intellect or of the obscurity of the matter itself.

In this article it is the ethical aspect and consequences of ignorance that are directly under consideration. From this point of view, since only voluntary and free acts are imputable, ignorance which either destroys or lessens the [the limitations of our intellect] is a factor to be reckoned with. . . .[Ignorance] will, therefore, be taken to mean the absence of information which one is required to have. The mere want of knowledge without connoting any requirement on the part of a person to possess it may be called nescience.

So far as fixing human responsibility, the most important division of ignorance is that designated by the terms invincible and vincible.

Ignorance is said to be invincible when a person is unable to rid himself of it notwithstanding the employment of moral diligence, that is, such as under the circumstances is, morally speaking, possible and obligatory.
This manifestly includes the states of inadvertence, forgetfulness, etc. Such ignorance is obviously involuntary and therefore not imputable.

On the other hand, ignorance is termed vincible if it can be dispelled by the use of "moral diligence". This certainly does not mean all possible effort; . . . We may say, however, that the diligence requisite must be commensurate with the importance of the affair in hand, and with the capacity of the agent, in a word such as a really sensible and prudent person would use under the circumstances.

Furthermore, it must be remembered that the obligation mentioned above is to be interpreted strictly and exclusively as the duty incumbent on a man to do something, the precise object of which is the acquisition of the needed knowledge. . . .

When ignorance is deliberately aimed at and fostered, it is said to be affected, not because it is pretended, but rather because it is sought for by the agent so that he may not have to relinquish his purpose.

Ignorance which practically no effort is made to dispel is termed crass or supine.
 

[I]gnorance may precede, accompany, or follow an act of our will. It is therefore said to be antecedent, concomitant, or consequent.

Antecedent ignorance is in no sense voluntary, neither is the act resulting from it; it precedes any voluntary failure to inquire.

Consequent ignorance, on the other hand, is so called because it is the result of a perverse frame of mind choosing, either directly or indirectly, to be ignorant.

Concomitant ignorance is concerned with the will to act in a given contingency; it implies that the real character of what is done is unknown to the agent, but his attitude is such that, were he acquainted with the actual state of things, he would go on just the same.

Keeping these distinctions in mind we are in a position to lay down certain statements of doctrine.

Invincible ignorance [ignorance that cannot be conquered], whether of the law or of the fact, is always a valid excuse and excludes sin. The evident reason is that neither this state nor the act resulting therefrom is voluntary.

It is undeniable that a man cannot be invincibly ignorant of the natural law, so far as its first principles are concerned, and the inferences easily drawn therefrom. This, however, according to the teaching of St. Thomas, is not true of those remoter conclusions, which are deducible only by a process of laborious and sometimes intricate reasoning. Of these a person may be invincibly ignorant. Even when the invincible ignorance is concomitant, it prevents the act which it accompanies from being regarded as sinful. The perverse temper of soul, which in this case is supposed, retains, of course, such malice as it had.

Vincible ignorance, being in some way voluntary, does not permit a man to escape responsibility for the moral deformity of his deeds; he is held to be guilty and in general the more guilty in proportion as his ignorance is more voluntary. Hence, the essential thing to remember is that the guilt of an act performed or omitted in vincible ignorance is not to be measured by the intrinsic malice of the thing done or omitted so much as by the degree of negligence discernible in the act.

It must not be forgotten that, although vincible ignorance leaves the culpability of a person intact, still it does make the act less voluntary than if it were done with full knowledge. This holds good except perhaps with regard to the sort of ignorance termed affected. Here theologians are not agreed as to whether it increases or diminishes a man's moral liability. The solution is possibly to be had from a consideration of the motive which influences one in choosing purposely to be ignorant.
For instance, a man who would refuse to learn the doctrines of the Church [both sides or weigh conflicting evidence of the holocaust narrative] from a fear that he would thus find himself compelled to embrace [a changed interpretation of the events] would certainly be in a bad plight.

Still he would be less guilty than the man whose neglect to know the teachings of the Church [opposing evidence about the holocaust] was inspired by sheer scorn of her authority[ those who advance the contrary evidence].

Invincible ignorance, whether of the law or fact, exempts one from the penalty which may have been provided by positive legislation.

Even vincible ignorance, either of the law or fact, which is not crass, excuses one from the punishment. Mere lack of knowledge of the sanction does not free one from the penalty. . .

 

Earlier, I issued a dare: https://www.unz.com/article/keep-your-eye-on-the-camel/#comment-967004
Have you taken the dare?

Our children had the good sense to have been young when there was still decent children's programming on cable channels. I don't recall what program it was that routinely disclosed some bit of information about how a person should conduct him/herself, then closed the segment with the phrase, "Now you know, and knowing's half the battle."

When the question on the table is war or peace, killing or not killing, knowing, then the moral obligation to know is far more than "half the battle." It is the most serious obligation of a citizen, a moral imperative.

I have presented information -- contrarian information-- about the holocaust with the intention of putting participants on this blog in the position of having the opportunity to know; the exculpatory position of invincible ignorance is therefore foreclosed.

Once a thing is known, it's hard to un-know it. Then one must consider how to act with respect to that new knowledge.

This has become a very difficult situation in the USA due to the punitive measures to enforce ignorance that operate under the guise of sanctioning "holocaust denial" or "antisemitism." These measures and the institutions that enforce them are pernicious and destructive to the perpetuation of a constitutional republic.

Replies: @geokat62

Replies: @geokat62

“Hating injustice – although people define it vaguely often out of self interest – is not the same as hatred for every member of an entire ethnic group. That kind of emotion and action leads to violence and death.”

Oh really – hmm’ ---- What about if you are being attacked by a tribe – can you hate then? If you are a Palestinian can you hate world Jewry? How many guns being pointed at you justifies hate? How much coercion can one bare before one justifiably hates?

What if you are a member of the world community and you rightly have feelings of solidarity with the Palestinians – should you be accused of hate by Jewry? Is that honorable, or is that thuggish evil manipulative behavior by the Jews?

Sorry Fran – but YOU are on the wrong side of history – your posts defend thuggish evil manipulative Jew behavior.

The right side of history is to be for Disinvestment, Boycott, and Sanctions.

What say you Fran – yes or no?

Replies: @geokat62

Replies: @geokat62, @Art

I originally used "inmates" to refer to the occupants of the cacophonous Bestiary of nazis in this discussion. Upon admittance and therapy in the institutions recommended, I shall transpose definition.

Your grammar and reading comprehension requires remedial intervention. "I clocked at 204" as opposed to your pedestrian misread, "I clocked in at 204", where you are very likely thinking of what you do every day, clocking-in and clocking-out, serve to communicate different meanings to the well-read and the not-so-much. It is entirely a function of having a good ear and instruction in grammar, which some countries seem to have dispensed with. Furthermore, and not to put too fine a point on it, ponder on what I actually wrote (not your pedestrian misread), when I spoke of the 'civilised world' applauding the Orange CEO.

parry swords with your equals.

Replies: @geokat62

Replies: @geokat62

Arik was a warrior, and saw things the way a soldier would. Yet he was much more, imparting on his people the will to transcend passive victimhood (which btw, is what I have been implying on many occasions, including the example of my pragmatic grandmother, and which elicited an apoplectic reaction from the Lydian in our midst).

The ‘conscience of the world’ will have to understand through its arse what it could not get into its head. The gentiles have always felt sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids will have only one option: to come home, all of them, fast, to install thick steel doors, to build a strong fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner of their fence here and to fight like devils against anyone who dares to make a sound in this region. And if anyone even raises his hand against us we’ll take away half his land and burn the other half, including the oil. We might use nuclear arms. We’ll go on until he no longer feels like it…
 

Replies: @geokat62

My grandfather served with Uri in 1947-48. There is not much logic in war. When it happens, be prepared for all things.

The Arabs who cry about the Naqba, cut off many Jewish heads and paraded them in J'salem. We did some things too in Deir Yassin

Replies: @geokat62

.

.......you think that the goyim (Hebrew for “cattle”) are so stupid
 

Enough said. I am off to enjoy the rest of the evening, and doubt if I will return to view the Bestiary for a period of time!

P.S.: Yes. Also have a Ph.D. in Mathematical Economics :-) . And we are not full of ourselves. Only conveying the essentials, as it were, for the benefit of all.

Replies: @geokat62

As for sanctions and boycotts, freedom demands that individual conscience must be allowed protest and not be criminalized. I would particularly think that powerful industrial interests which profit financially from war by the continuous manufacture and sale of weaponry, which therefore have a strong incentive to lobby for war, ought to be called out, and restrained however possible, by personal boycott, and from also using the public purse, without public accountability, to further their wealth at our expense.

It might be seen by some as progress that now that, for instance, Jewish people like Adelman (but it could be any ethnicity) aren't barred from becoming gambling billionaires, nor from using that regressive wealth to become warmongering donorists who buy up government. But I don't consider it that a morally crippled banksterism which buys policy in defiance of democratic accountability to be any sort of progress at all, simply because the evil that pervades is equal opportunity. Just because a gangster without being barred by ethnicity can muscle his way to become head of Murder Inc. doesn't transform that evil into good. The gambling racketeers should never be able to impose their lack of vales on our governance, opportunistic Shmuley Boteach spiritual counselors notwithstanding.

Replies: @geokat62, @Art, @SolontoCroesus

The other thing to remember, as Arendt wasn't shy to report accurately from Eichmann's Jerusalem trial, despite some influential people wanting a more simple moral story, is that betrayal by one's own leaders is too often part of crimes against any population. Ghetto leaders, out of vanity, cowardice and other character defects, too often collaborated with the Nazis, even choosing who to send to the gas chambers, among other travesties.

In this, there is nothing exceptional about the Jewish people in comparison to others. We hear all the time from our own leaders about how exceptional what is done in our name is, as well. But are these exceptional deeds truly done for the average American's interests, or for average citizens' anywhere, or out of loyalty to no public, but to selfishness and love of money and power in high places? It is difficult to know when so much is kept from us, when deception, secrecy and surveillance have become a policy turned inwards, as Senator Church warned us could happen.

Replies: @geokat62

It’s inextricably linked to politically unhealthy domestic donorism, particularly by the likes of Adelman and Saban, who are using their wealth to distort the political process both here and in Israel.
 

Those who mistakenly believe uncritical support for one political faction in Israel is essential to the future of the Jewish people will need to be convinced by reasons that don’t include the obvious animus that is parallel to discredited Nazi theories and invokes discredited racial stereotypes, displayed by some commentators here, who can’t avoid the characterization by claiming they are not Holocaust deniers, “because you can’t deny what never happened.”

 

I don’t agree that even pernicious delusions like Holocaust Denial should be illegal, simply debunked in the most effective way, by the judicious application of free speech condemning it. Rinse and repeat, as necessary.
 

And I do not consider Phil Giraldi’s opinions, which I would rather discuss, deserving to be smeared by their proximity to the comments of opportunistic antisemites, who are only allowed to be able to make their postings by the keen dedication to free speech by website sponsor Ron Unz.

 

Replies: @SolontoCroesus, @Art, @geokat62

Replies: @geokat62

https://goosegander.wordpress.com/2015/06/08/remembering-the-uss-liberty/

34 American servicemen died.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html

174 American servicemen were wounded

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html

Mathilde Krim, former wife of an Israeli terrorist , a passionate zionist, and then- wife of an ardent supporter of Israel, Hollywood film producer and Democratic rain-maker Arthur Krim was asleep in the White House when the attack occurred. According to LBJ's long-time secretary, the president consulted Mathilde Krim in preparing his response to the situation.

The response was for planes that would have attacked the aggressing Israeli planes to Stand Down.
Rescue ships were turned back.

Israelis insist the attack was accidental.

Those who argue otherwise are labeled "haters," "antisemites," "conspiracy theorists." Maybe even "bestial" and "Lydians."

Men who survived the attack on the USS Liberty have not been permitted to give testimony before congressional committees about the event.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ussliberty.html

Replies: @geokat62

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.573880
 

Replies: @geokat62

They may tell you that, but when it came to voting for peace, they voted for Sharon “the warrior”!
 

Replies: @geokat62

Your man Finkelstein(check your information) is actually against RoR for Palestinians. Its a non-starter and only idiots would insist on it. Your ill-conceived poppycock BDS will fail.

btw disparaging Prof Dershowitz's character , arguably the keenest legal mind and one of the most talented jurists in the world, (the false allegations have been dismissed), won't help your cause or your credibility.

Replies: @geokat62