Depends on which city you're near. Here in LA, I regularly get CHEAP tickets to the dodgers simply by going on Tickpick and StubHub and buying less-popular Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday night games. We are talking six bucks to twelve bucks.

I agree with you, prole, that night games, which is to say most games, are hard with littler kids and of course with any schoolnight. But there are typically Sunday one pm games everywhere we have lived.

If you're in Boston or New York or to a lesser extent DC, the games are indeed usually quite unaffordable. Parking costs way too much, by itself, if you're near the stadium in those places, like thirty and forty bucks. But in other MLB cities, that is not the case.

People love to complain and joke about twelve dollar beers and seven dollar hot dogs. Fine, so do I. But we have only ourselves to blame if we buy it. We are allowed to bring our food and water to the games and we usually do. We pay ten bucks for parking, which we split with a friend most of the time.

The only things they nail us on is ice cream for the kiddies and, yes, the ridiculous merchandise, and that's our choice.

Replies: @Truth

It is interesting that in the outtakes above, the first paragraph refers to "1930s residential security maps," presuming that these redlining maps actually exist eighty years later--while the second paragraph refers to poor neighborhoods by zip codes; zip codes being an early 1960s creation by the USPS. The silly implication is that the post office had something to do with planning poor neighborhoods.

These midwestern lower middle class suburbs rarely stay that way once they get to be 30% black.

Ferguson had been majority black since about 1998. It was about 2/3 black in 2013. I think they passed the 30% black threshold some time prior to 1990.

Replies: @AnotherDad

Lot, this is an extremely good comment. Above even you usual good stuff. Good observation of sociological process and reasonable estimates on the numbers.

~~
A couple thoughts:

1) Art Deco is probably right that there are some number of at least reasonably semi-stable black middleclass suburbs. It would depend on all sorts of geographic and sociological factors--housing stock, natural boundaries (easier to defend neighborhoods with natural boundaries), the quantity of middle class blacks in a metro area, etc. etc.

But of course, the factors that people have noted
--> Almost all blacks who aren't completely multi-generation, talent-tenth, paper-bag test passers, will have some pretty crappy relatives.
--> Section 8 is a cancer spreader designed mostly to destabilize WWC neighborhoods and rain destruction down upon them ... but even more prone to do the same to BWC/"householder" neighborhoods.

I don't think Ferguson was as stable as Art was suggesting. My impression was Section 8 was dutifully doing its duty, bringing in the garbage and running the joint down. But I haven't investigated and don't know.

2) Your comment really nails the core sociological problem in the US.
Essentially:

Blacks are so bad--specifically in sociopathic behavior/criminality--that it simply doesn't take very many of them for whites and everyone else to want to flee. Which is why you really can *not* have integration. Even just at their national proportion--14%--blacks create enough extra dysfunction/disorder/crime, that everyone else would just as soon get away.

This fundamental fact is why all schemes of "integration" inevitably generate conflict and fail, and why entirely normal behavior from non-blacks, must/will endlessly be denounced as "racism".

I think blacks are about 3x or 4x where integration could work. I think if they were say 4x less violent--so only twice as violent as whites--the tipping wouldn't come fast enough to cause trouble. Or if the were say 4x less numerous--4% of the nation--a lot of communities could tolerate running up to that 4%, tolerating the increased crime in the neighborhood and stupidity/acting-out in the schools and grin and bear it. But a 15% does of people who are 8x just worse is too much. Inevitably normal people flee from it.

Replies: @anon, @Desiderius, @Ed, @Lot

Aside from any particular people, there also seems to be an extreme attraction to politics for gays.

Why so many involved in politics? Other than the fashion and entertainment industry I imagine it has the highest amount of gay involvement of any endeavor in America.

Personally politics has zero appeal to me. Give little speeches, make phone calls, TV appearances... bleh.

Replies: @e, @Anonym

Makes sense.

A lot of M are probably like the generation before the world war II bunch, that have low birth rates in the late 1920's to early 1940's because of economic downturn. So, it could work out in the long term since the generation born between the late 1920's and early 1940's game of age during Eisenhower and was the most conservative generation. The silent generation was a small one as well.

Replies: @prole

Total fertility rate has for more than 40 years fluctuated around a set point of about 1.9 births per woman per lifetime.

What has happened has been a decline in the propensity to marry. The ratio of marriages contracted in year x to live births 26 years previous stood at about 0.73 in 2000 and declined to 0.55 by 2014.

If I'm not mistaken, though, the % of live births born to unmarried mothers hit a plateau around about 2010.

You have a point with all that.

Will say that despite the childish idealism, the unconscious narcissism...

That is a hell of a song. Maybe an illusion, but a pretty one.

What is funny about Anon's post, AndrewR?

You express my own thoughts so much better than I could. Thank you.

Yes, the attitude is live for NOW. No thought is given to the future or the past, aside from hypocritical virtue-signaling.

But in post-family America, many young people think only of the NOW, and so, they were bit more adventurous in where they lived since they only lived for themselves and hookups.

Since the 60s, people became less consequentialist. They didn’t think in terms of “what will be the consequences of actions I take now for short-term pleasure or thrills.” That was a factor in making cities more attractive. La la la la Live for today.
 

Kurt Vonnegut published "Harrison Bergeron" in 1961, almost a generation before "The World According to Garp".

Replies: @TWS, @Harry Baldwin

Also remarkably 1917-ish. The West is still "in the hands of the perpetrators," as Solzhenitsyn said.

Theft as well as murder, is the eternal feature of the so-called banksters.

Hang on to your wallets, and keep your kids out of their schools. Also stockpile weapons and ammunition. Lots of them.

Ironically, the massively-successful racial arbitrage practiced by the Belichick/Brady Patriots and the Auerbach/Bird Celtics indicates it’s actually white athletes who are discriminated against in those sports.
 

If you think Adderall (AKA amphetamine) lowers the sex drive, you've never taken it.

Replies: @Travis

Millennials are fornicating and socializing much less than boomers did 35 years ago…teenagers are also getting layed less often, more virgins are graduating from high school, teenage pregnancies are at all-time lows…
 

It isn't really millennials. Millennials are people 33-20 or so. Born in the mid 80s to mid/late 90s. It's the upcoming generation, the ones born after 2000, who aren't socializing or getting jobs or even driving.

Replies: @prole

Yes, the discovery phase can be very useful. As in discovering more about the Google aristocracy and its blacklisting of employees for political opinions. Babbling Babu big buck$ and the Bobbsey Twins have their high priced legal talent gaming this out right now. Chickenshits all around, so they will settle with James Damore to avoid a trial with discovery.

Replies: @Catdog

The pentatonic scale was used in Celtic , German, Hungarian and most other European folk music ….
 

To suggest that Blacks Americans invented Blues is absurd…
 

As far as many blacks are concerned, they invented everything. When whites play jazz or blues, they "stole" it from blacks. But when Scott Joplin emulated John Phillip Sousa's music in many ways, all of the sudden the very same process wasn't stealing. When Chuck Berry made his music sound more like white country music than other black guitar players, it somehow wasn't stealing. So say the blacks.

I don't really like the blues...it's incredibly boring and base in its elemental form. Whites revitalized the blues by infusing it into early rock and roll, which had an energy that the blues never could have had on its own.

Blues is 100% derived from European folk music
 

Replies: @JeremiahJohnbalaya, @Father O'Hara, @cthulhu

Was wearing my "dress Who t-shirt" one day when a black guy working as a waiter explained he had worked the concessions stand at one of their shows at the Barclays Center and how surprisingly great they were and how much he enjoyed compared to other rock shows he had worked. It's not like it was in 1979 the first time I saw them, but they still put on a great show.

Blame stupid Americans for thinking Spaniards are non-white.

It is outrageous that the children of Ted Cruz will benefit from affirmative action….t

Their mother and father are super-achievers. Their uncle (a dentist and medical missionary, like his father) and their surviving aunt (a doctor practicing in a Dallas exurb) do all right as well. The grandparents on both sides have lived vigorous lives (with both accomplishments and failures). It's possible these girls will be disappointments, but they've got a tremendous amount of human capital around them.

Their one paternal-side cousin just scrapes along at life, though. Then again, his mother was a drug addict and his father did time in one of the Illinois state pens (Miriam Cruz evidently fancied rough trade); scraping by is a step up. Ted Cruz' family do seem a weird jumble.

No kidding!

Reading more NYT comments last night, I kept seeing negative comments.

I had to check the NYT "picks" to find positive ones.

I didn't read them all but it seems that even amongst NYT readers there's a feeling against AA.

They kept saying something like "people shouldn't be judged by their skin colour or ethnicity."

Long professional school education for women funded by 200,000+ student loans is also very dysgenic.

Replies: @Difference Maker

'But after 12 months of investigations by a Democratic Justice department, they found nothing linking Trump to a Russian conspiracy..."
Compare the wasted money and efforts on the interesting case of DNC emails and on a case of certain Pakistani family working for the DNC: "IT Aid to Congresswoman, Wasserman Schultz, Arrested at Airport After Transferring $283K to Pakistan" https://needtoknow.news/2017/07/aid-congresswoman-wasserman-schultz-arrested-airport-transferring-283k-pakistan/
However, "Democratic members of Congress, including Rep. Gregory Meeks of New York, have suggested that police had framed the Pakistani-born Awan brothers out of Islamophobia. Yet his own stepmother, a devout Muslim, filed court documents accusing him of using high-tech devices to wiretap her and extorting her (see p. 23 of court documents in that case). A dozen people who have dealt with Imran painted a picture in interviews with TheDCNF of a charming, “cunning” extrovert who bragged about his power among Democratic officials and who seemed to have an unquenchable thirst for cash."
Nice. The MSM does not want to talk about the real criminals that were caught red-handed because when the criminals are DNC-related, the police work must be "framing" and "Islamophobia."
Very interesting what exactly the Awan brothers have on the Congressional Dems. The unceremonious refusal to let the FBI investigate the DNC computers (re allegedly "hacked" emails) and the loud voices of defense coming from Democratic members of Congress suggest that the brothers have acquired important morsels of information for blackmailing the Dems.
"Wasserman Schultz has refused to fire Imran [Awan] despite being a known criminal suspect in a cybersecurity probe for months and has blocked Capitol Police from searching a laptop they confiscated because it was tied to him."
Let them sing.

If we dont fix that leaking sieve masquerading as a border then elections don't matter.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

MN is moving farther left. It is losing high income jobs. It has net migration out for Americans. Its pop increase is only due to international immigrants. Anyone who would ever vote for Trump again is having refugees move into their districts on purpose. The rest will wring hands.

Socially, see:

See: met council:https://metrocouncil.org/Data-and-Maps/Data/Census-Forecasts-Estimates.aspx

From their PDF:
The seven-county Minneapolis-St. Paul region is projected to gain
824,000 people in coming decades, reaching 3,674,000 residents in
2040, up from 2,850,000 in 2010. Projected growth rates, 9 percent per
decade, are below peak growth rates seen in the 1980s and the 1990s –
but above-average compared to national projections for the same period.
Natural population growth, or births outpacing deaths, will add 590,000
residents. Natural population growth will account for 72 percent of the
total population growth from 2010 to 2040. Birth rates are higher among
families of color than white families, contributing steadily and gradually to
the racial and ethnic diversity of the region.
More than one-quarter (28 percent) of the region’s population gain will be
driven by migration. The Twin Cities region is likely to gain 355,000 new
residents through international immigration while losing 128,000
residents to domestic out-migration, for a net migration gain of 227,000
during the 30-years forecast period.
-----------

State economy:

https://www.americanexperiment.org/reports-books/minnesotas-economy-mediocre-performance-threatens-states-future/

Taxes and regulatory burden outrageous.
It is pricing out of the market any non rich or non welfare family. Own a home in Ramsey or Hennepin counties (home of St. Paul or Mpls or their suburbs on the west)? Your property taxes are well over 1% and nearly 2% of your home's estimated value, a value that for many people since 2006 is still above market value.


But that's not enough. Mpls just passed an outrageous $15 /hour minimum wage, and Paul just passed outrageous paid leave for all companies even small businesses.

The k-12 system had completely fallen apart. The top high schools are sending more and more kids to remedial community college to take math and writing they should have learned in 9th grade. Meantime what's left are SJWs.

See:
https://www.americanexperiment.org/2017/07/mn-dept-education-approves-controversial-transgender-toolkit/

And recent story about the tony west suburb of Mpls, Edina, and its educators:

https://www.americanexperiment.org/2017/07/edina-teachers-take-sides-partisan-politics/

The "out-state" as it is called, meaning rural areas, are already totally left of center.

Second to Bill Gates, of course.

Bezos would be my first choice (if we're counting Jobs, who was born near years earlier, as an earlier generation; otherwise nobody comes close to Jobs), but we need to wait at least 20-30 years to see how things play out.

If you're extending the "generation" to people born in the early 70s, I would not rule out Elon Musk or Page/Brin.

Replies: @Dave Pinsen

Parallel to your "othering" is normalization. There are autism advocates like fat advocates, for instance, who in the pursuit of autism acceptance seek to define abnormality down. Timothy spends all day banging his head against a wall and hasn't spoken a single word in his entire life? Oh, he's no different than guys who are too shy to hit on strange women at bars.

Somehow, this never results in asking for less money or less power. It's similar to the normalization of the LGTBBQ crowd. They're supposedly just like the rest of us, but actually they're better than the rest of us. They're awesome, in need of constant attention, and must possess cultural influence beyond their numbers and merit, or else.

There's a third thing going on, in addition to othering and normalization, sometimes called medicalization. Everything to do with the "autism spectrum" can't be a mere personality thing. It's gotta be a condition. This goes along with lots of medical diagnoses, to a certain degree, and especially the fadish ones that get picked up by the MSM.

Autism is a fad amongst fads for mental disorders, for whatever reason. Which has caused the mass medicalization of innumerable personality tics, from shyness to introspection to bookishness to fidgeting.

Trump can ban some Muslims because he's president. He can't ban others, because...uh...look out! [Points behind you, jumps out the window when your head is turned.]

Seriously though, there's this little thing called the Just Because Principle. Ever heard of it?No, because I just made it up. But now that I've named it, it's automatically a venerable tradition of jurisprudence.

Since the 1960s, our courts have vastly expanded their reach. This occurred unchecked by the cowards in Congress who do have some power to stop or restrict it.

Replies: @RadicalCenter

Great post, Johnny.

Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

My guess is that after dying, they didn’t get too many opportunities to celebrate Ramadan. The New York Times doesn’t seem very interested in these people.

Maybe you should try Google, Johnny. I found this in less than five seconds.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/10/23/world/middleeast/23casualties.html?_r=0&referer=

(Please note: This was back when Wikileaks was considered the good guys.)

I was no fan of the Iraq war either, but they've talked about civilian casualties quite a bit. I'm sure it's not enough to satisfy you, but then, what would be?

Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

John McCain made up a song about bombing Iran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxV9oCUPeSc

McCain also joked how we could kill Iranians by giving them more cigarettes and causing cancer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LldjTWx4cJQ

For some reason, "media liberals" didn't seem much concerned about this. You would think that since the Iranians are non-white, the media would be mortified and McCain would've gotten himself into a lot of trouble. Yet, for some reason, McCain got a pass.........

Perhaps the New York Times should run an editorial in which a Muslim Iranian discusses McCain's genocidal hatred of Iranian people.

Replies: @anon, @Rob McX

So U.S. military action and sanctions have killed more than 2 million Iraqis since the early 90s.
 

Iraq (1990-2003): 350,000
International Embargo
Kaplow, Larry, “Consequences Of Kuwait: Sanctions have Iraq withering”, 13 June 1999, Atlanta Journal and Constitution: 110,000
Project on Defense Alternatives, 20 Oct. 2003: "[T]he sanction regime probably cost the lives of 170,000 children. (Much higher estimates for 1992-1998 sanction deaths ... are based on faulty baseline statistics for prewar childhood mortality in Iraq)." [http://www.comw.org/pda/0310rm8.html#N_93_]
Chris Suellentrop, “Are 1 Million Children Dying in Iraq?” Slate Magazine, October 9, 2001, acknowledged the possibility of 350,000-500,000 excess deaths among children since 1991, but points out that Saddam blames the UN and the US blames Saddam
UNICEF: 500,000 excess child deaths (under-five) 1991 to 1998 [http://www.unicef.org.uk/index_s.asp?sct=news&filen=../news/iraq1.htm]
Philip Shenon, “Washington and Baghdad Agree on One Point: Sanctions Hurt”, 22 Nov. 1998, New York Times: 700,000
Leon Howell, “Churches Regret Calling for Sanctions”, March 21, 1998, [Albany, NY] Times Union: the UN Food and Agriculture Organization estimated that 1,000,000 Iraqis, incl. 560,000 children, died as a result of malnutrition and disease caused by the international embargo imposed following the invasion of Kuwait. The article mentions the use of these numbers by an official of the United Church of Christ, and also labels the figures "commonly used -- but also disputed".
6 Aug. 1999 CNN [http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9908/06/iraq.sanctions/]
UN: 1M excess deaths
Al-Thawra newspaper: 1.5M
Ramsey Clark: 1,500,000 including 750,000 children [http://www.twf.org/News/Y1997/Ramsey.html]
Brian Nelson and Jane Arraf, “Ten Years After Iraq's Invasion of Kuwait and U.N. Sanctions Still Stand”, 18:00 August 6, 2000, CNN Worldview: 1.5 million
 

Shortly after the war, the US Defense Intelligence Agency made a very rough estimate of 100,000 Iraqi deaths, and this order of magnitude is widely accepted -- even improved upon:
B&J: 50,000 to 100,000
Compton's: 150,000 Iraqi soldiers killed
World Political Almanac 3rd: 150,000 incl. civilians.
Our Times: 200,000.
Other authoritative sources working with more detailed data have come up with lower numbers:
The British govt. put the death toll at 30,000 (War Annual 6, 1994)
A May 1992 report by the US House Armed Services Committee estimated that 9,000 Iraqi soldiers were killed by the air campaign. [http://es.rice.edu/projects/Poli378/Gulf/aspin_rpt.html]
The PBS news show Frontline estimates 2300 civilians, 10-20,000 military in air war and, 10,000 military in the ground war; for a total of 27,300 ±5000. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/appendix/death.html)
Because the advancing American Army found only 577 dead bodies and captured only 800 wounded/sick prisoners (compared to 37,000 healthy prisoners), John Heidenrich ("The Gulf War: how many Iraqis died?", Foreign Policy, 22 March 1993) plausibly estimates the number of Iraqi military killed at 1,500 (probable) to 9,500 (absolute maximum), with fewer than 1000 civilians.
29 April 1999 AP: 4,500 to 45,000
Civilian death toll is put at 2,500 by US and 35,000 by Iraqis
The US lost 147 killed in battle and 289 dead otherwise. The other Coalition members lost 92 dead.
NOTE: Subtracting the civilian estimates from the estimated total indicates that AP puts the military deaths in roughly the same range as Heidenrich: 2,000 to 10,000
Dict.Wars: 85,000 Iraqi and 240 Coalition soldiers.
Wm Arkin: 3,200 Iraqi civilians (cited in 4 Dec. 2001 WSJ [http://wsjclassroomedition.com/tj_120401_casu.htm] and 13 Jan. 2002 San Francisco Chronicle)
Martin Gilbert:
Coalition
USA: 145 k. in action and 121 k. in accidents.
UK: 24
Egypt: 10
UAE: 6

Iraqis: at least 8,000 in battle, and 5,000 civilians
25 July 1991 The Gazette (Montreal), citing a Greenpeace report by Wm Arkin:
Iraqi
Military: 100,000-120,000
Civilian: 62,400 to 99,400 (87% of dis./mal. after fighting stopped)
Post-war revolts in N + S Iraq: 30,000-100,000
Kuwaitis: 2,000-5,000
Coalition
US: 145 KIA + 2 mortally wd. + 121 in accidents = 268
Allies: 77
TOTAL: 345
8 Jan. 1992 Interpress, citing a later Greenpeace report by Arkin:
Iraqis
Military: 72,500-118,000
Civilian: 2,500-3,000 in bombing + 49,000-56,000 from dis./mal in 1990-91
Post-war revolts in N + S Iraq: 102,000-150,000 civilians & rebels + 5,000 Iraqi soldiers
16 Feb. 2003 Pittsbugh Post-Gazette [http://www.post-gazette.com/nation/20030216casualtiesbox0216p9.asp]
Iraqi soldiers killed
Beth Daponte / William Arkin: 56,000
Army War College: 10,000-20,000
John Heidenrich / John Mueller: 1,000-6,000
Iraqi civilians killed
Daponte / Arkin: 3,500
Government of Iraq: 2,248
Army War College: 1,000-3,000
Heidenrich/Mueller: Fewer than 1,000
Indirect civilian deaths
Daponte: 111,000
19 March 2004 NY Post
Iraqi soldiers: 40,000
Iraqi civilians: 2,300

Project on Defense Alternatives, 20 Oct. 2003 [http://www.comw.org/pda/0310rm8.html]
War dead
Iraqi civilians: 3,500
Iraqi military: 20,000 - 26,000
Post-war
Anti-regime uprisings: 30,000 civilians + 5,000 military
Health-related deaths: 60,000-100,000
11 Nov. 2000 Times [London]: 47 British soldiers
Kuwaiti civilians
24 Feb. 1991 St. Petersburg Times: acc2 Pentagon, 2,000-10,000 killed by Iraqis "in recent days"
7 March 1996, Guardian [London]: 600 missing since Iraqi occupation.
MEDIAN
Direct civilian deaths
Iraqi: 2,625
Kuwaitis: 4,750
[Total: 7,375]
Iraqi Soldiers: 25,000
TOTAL: 75,000 (The whole appears to be greater than the sum of its parts because many estimates tally the war's dead without differentiating between military and civilian.)
 

Running Online Tallies:
Iraq Body Count: 105,721 to 115,476 civilians killed as of March 18, 2012
Iraq Coalition Casualty Count: 4,485 USAns killed 2003-2011
BBC, “Iraqi official: War dead 100,000,” 10 November 2006, [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6135526.stm
Kim Gamel, Associated Press, April 24, 2009: over 110,000 Iraqi deaths since 2003
BBC, “New study says 151,000 Iraqi dead”, 10 January 2008 [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7180055.stm]
Jonathan Steele and Suzanne Goldenberg, "What is the real death toll in Iraq?" Guardian, 19 March 2008, [http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/iraq]
Tina Susman, "Poll: Civilian Death Toll in Iraq May Top 1 Million", Los Angeles Times, 14 September 2007: 1.2 million
Rebecca Santana, "85,000 Iraqis killed in almost 5 years of war", Associated Press, October 14, 2009
Iraqi Human Rights Ministry: 85,694 Iraqis killed 1 Jan. 2004 to 31 Oct. 2008 including Iraqi civilians, military and police, but not insurgents or foreigners.
Associated Press: 110,600 Iraqis died violently, 2003 invasion through early 2009
World Health Organization (2007): 151,000 Iraqis died from violence, 2003-05, including insurgents.
Johns Hopkins University study published in Lancet (2006): 601,027 Iraqis died as a result of violence.
Pentagon: 4,349 Americans k. (as of 14 Oct 2009)
Lara Jakes, "US says Iraq War led to 77k deaths over 5 years", Associated Press, Oct 14, 2010
US Military estimate: 76,939 Iraqi security officials and civilians killed
Iraq Body Count: 98,252 to 107,235 Iraqi civilians were killed (March 2003 to 19 Sept 2010)
2009 Iraqi Human Rights Ministry: 85,694
Crawford, Boston University, "Civilian Death and Injury in Iraq, 2003-2011" [http://costsofwar.org/article/iraqi-civilians]
Iraqi civilians: 126,000+
Iraqi military killed at the outset of the war: ca. 10,000
insurgents: ca. 19,000 killed (June 2003-Sept. 2007)
Iraqi military and police: 10,100+ killed since June 2003
US, allied soldiers and contractors: ca. 6,300
Total: ca. 171,000
ABC News [Australia], "162,000 people killed in Iraq war: NGO", January 03, 2012. citing Iraq Body Count [http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-03/iraq-war-death-toll-put-at-162000/3755768?section=world]
Iraqi civilians: 114,000+
Iraqi police: 9,019
US soldiers: 4,474
Total: 162,000
 

Gulf War: 75,000

Embargo: 350,000

Iraq War and Occupation: 171,000

75,000 +350,000 + 171,000= 596,000

I wonder why NYT doesn’t run more articles from regular Iraqis whose lives have been destroyed by America over the last quarter century.
 

And then there are the people killed by Saddam Hussein. Some estimates:

Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979-2003): 300,000 [make link]
Roth, “War in Iraq: Not a Humanitarian Intervention,” Human Rights Watch, January 2004: "twenty-five years of Ba`th Party rule ... murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis" [http://www.hrw.org/wr2k4/3.htm]
Price, "Survey: Saddam Killed 61,000 in Baghdad", 8/9 Dec. 2003 AP: Total murders
New survey estimates 61,000 residents of Baghdad executed by Saddam.
US Government estimates a total of 300,000 killed by Saddam across Iraq
180,000 Kurds k. in Anfal
60,000 Shiites in 1991
50,000 misc. others executed
"Human rights officials" est.: 500,000
Iraqi politicians: over a million

 

Iran-Iraq War (1980-88): 700,000
Most newpaper articles agree on the number, but they can't agree on the number of what. They talk of a million "killed", a million "killed and wounded", or a million "casualties". Here are the estimates among the sources which specify the number as killed:
Dilip Hiro, The Longest War: The Iran-Iraq Military Conflict (1991), p.250:
Conservative western est: 262,000 Iranians + 105,000 Iraqis = 367,000
Iran, officially: 123,220 KIA + 60,711 MIA + 11,000 civilians [= 194,931]
Iran, according to Baghdad: 800,000
Eckhardt: 377,000 as of 1987
Potter, Iran, Iraq, and the Legacies of War, p.8 (2006):
Iranian deaths "more or less consistent": 213,000 (Gen. Safavi); 204,795 incl. civilians (Qalamnevis); 220,000 (Rafiqdust)
Iraqis: 180,000 (al-Samarrai); 150,000 Baram
[TOTAL: 354,795 to 400,000]
Hammond: 400,000
5 March 1991 AP
Iran has acknowledged 135,000 mil. + civ. k.
Western military analysts: 2 or 3 times higher
Diplomats in Baghdad: 100,000 Iraqi dead
[Total: (?) 437,500 ± 67,500]
Conservative Western estimates: 1M k. or wd.
Dunnigan (1991): over 500,000
Dictionary of 20C World History: >500,000
Bulloch & Morris, The Gulf War (1989): 500,000
SIPRI 1989: 532,000
Clodfelter
Iranians: best est. 450,000 (as high as 730,000)
Iraqis: 150,000 (as high as 340,000)
[TOTAL: 600,000 (as high as 1,070,000)
Chirot
Iranians: 400,000-600,000
Iraqis: 200,000
[TOTAL: 700,000 ± 100,000]

MEDIAN: 700,000
Iranians: 400,000
Iraqis: 200,000
WPA3: 1,000,000 (600,000 Iranians and 400,000 Iraqis)
Compton's Encyclopedia: 1,000,000
Encarta: 1,000,000
Toronto Star (11 Dec 88): 1,000,000
San Francisco Chronicle (29 Jan. 1991): 1,000,000
Our Times: at least 1,000,000
War Annual 4: 1,000,000 (600,000 Iranians and 400,000 Iraqis)
B&J: 1,000,000 (400,000 Iranians and 200,000 Iraqis)
Timeframe: 1,200,000 (900,000 Iranians and 300,000 Iraqis)
 

No one cares about Iraq anymore, like people don't care about Libya, and soon they won't care about Syria once we set it on a dysgenic pace for the next half century.

The invasion business must go on.

And then there are the estimates on people killed by Saddam Hussein:

Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979-2003): 300,000 [make link]
Roth, “War in Iraq: Not a Humanitarian Intervention,” Human Rights Watch, January 2004: "twenty-five years of Ba`th Party rule ... murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis" [http://www.hrw.org/wr2k4/3.htm]
Price, "Survey: Saddam Killed 61,000 in Baghdad", 8/9 Dec. 2003 AP: Total murders
New survey estimates 61,000 residents of Baghdad executed by Saddam.
US Government estimates a total of 300,000 killed by Saddam across Iraq
180,000 Kurds k. in Anfal
60,000 Shiites in 1991
50,000 misc. others executed
"Human rights officials" est.: 500,000
Iraqi politicians: over a million


And then there's the Iran-Iraq War. Various estimates:

Iran-Iraq War (1980-88): 700,000
Most newpaper articles agree on the number, but they can't agree on the number of what. They talk of a million "killed", a million "killed and wounded", or a million "casualties". Here are the estimates among the sources which specify the number as killed:
Dilip Hiro, The Longest War: The Iran-Iraq Military Conflict (1991), p.250:
Conservative western est: 262,000 Iranians + 105,000 Iraqis = 367,000
Iran, officially: 123,220 KIA + 60,711 MIA + 11,000 civilians [= 194,931]
Iran, according to Baghdad: 800,000
Eckhardt: 377,000 as of 1987
Potter, Iran, Iraq, and the Legacies of War, p.8 (2006):
Iranian deaths "more or less consistent": 213,000 (Gen. Safavi); 204,795 incl. civilians (Qalamnevis); 220,000 (Rafiqdust)
Iraqis: 180,000 (al-Samarrai); 150,000 Baram
[TOTAL: 354,795 to 400,000]
Hammond: 400,000
5 March 1991 AP
Iran has acknowledged 135,000 mil. + civ. k.
Western military analysts: 2 or 3 times higher
Diplomats in Baghdad: 100,000 Iraqi dead
[Total: (?) 437,500 ± 67,500]
Conservative Western estimates: 1M k. or wd.
Dunnigan (1991): over 500,000
Dictionary of 20C World History: >500,000
Bulloch & Morris, The Gulf War (1989): 500,000
SIPRI 1989: 532,000
Clodfelter
Iranians: best est. 450,000 (as high as 730,000)
Iraqis: 150,000 (as high as 340,000)
[TOTAL: 600,000 (as high as 1,070,000)
Chirot
Iranians: 400,000-600,000
Iraqis: 200,000
[TOTAL: 700,000 ± 100,000]

MEDIAN: 700,000
Iranians: 400,000
Iraqis: 200,000
WPA3: 1,000,000 (600,000 Iranians and 400,000 Iraqis)
Compton's Encyclopedia: 1,000,000
Encarta: 1,000,000
Toronto Star (11 Dec 88): 1,000,000
San Francisco Chronicle (29 Jan. 1991): 1,000,000
Our Times: at least 1,000,000
War Annual 4: 1,000,000 (600,000 Iranians and 400,000 Iraqis)
B&J: 1,000,000 (400,000 Iranians and 200,000 Iraqis)
Timeframe: 1,200,000 (900,000 Iranians and 300,000 Iraqis)

Odd. My comments are being processed rather strangely. Oh, well, perhaps something shorter will work.

So U.S. military action and sanctions have killed more than 2 million Iraqis since the early 90s.
 

Replies: @Pericles

the Iraqis were just as much killed by their own evil morality and weakness in allowing themselves to be governed by a tyrant who twice provoked war with the United States.

Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @guest, @David, @WJ

Don't think of them as "sanctions". Think of them as externally enacted protectionism. Think of all the Iraqis who got their jobs back with the end of free trade. A boon to their pharmaceutical industry in particular.

For some reason, “media liberals” didn’t make an issue of Bush’s utterly stunning lack of self awareness
 

Were the German pilots who bombed Coventry ever tried for their war crimes? Or were they conveniently forgiven?

Replies: @syonredux, @Autochthon, @JohnnyWalker123, @guest

As I understand it, a problem with all of these frequently cited Iraq war casualty statistics is that they count all supposed excess deaths (or in the case of the Lancet article all non-standard deaths) since 2003 as being the fault of the US war. It hardly seems honest to blame all of the deaths in that country's ongoing and morphing Sunni/Shia/Kurd/Turkmen sectarian conflict, and the ongoing murder/expulsion of the ancient Christian, Yezidi, and Mandean communities, on the US invasion. Perhaps Saddam would have been able to keep a lid on that indefinitely had the US not deposed him, and perhaps not. But in either case the fault clearly lies with the tribal and sectarian ethos of that society. The number of Iraqis actually directly killed by the US was quite small.

The other problem with those stats, in addition to being so thoroughly dubious, is that their purpose is to obfuscate the actual motivation for Islamic terrorism against the West (and against the East, and against Muslims from other sects) which has absolutely nothing to do with Western foreign policy and is solely the result of a religious doctrine of martyrdom and absolutism. I could go into all of the cases and evidence that disprove the legitimate grievance (tm) hypothesis of Islamic terror, but I've done that enough already. Suffice it to say that no legitimate grievance theory can explain why Al Shabbab massacred hundreds of black Kenyans in a mall after attempting to separate the sufficiently observant Muslim black Kenyans from the Christian and insufficiently observant Muslim black Kenyans, or why Aby Sayyaf did the same thing but replace black Kenyans with Filipinos.

We may forget that the NYT is not merely about "invite the world", but "invade the world". JW123, you've commented before about the JFK assassination and its importance to the interventionist arm of American Foreign Policy over the last half-century.

Interventionists have been in control of the White House and our policies for a long time, and the NYT is merely their mouthpiece.

So,while you're right to wonder why the NYT doesn't deliver on "all the news that fits we'll print", well the answer is simple:

What you've noticed "doesn't fit", therefore they won't print.

Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

Sorry, but having kids isn't compatible with a lifestyle heavy on travel.

There's an incredible number of young white people travelling whenever they can and posting stuff on Instagram.

I chose family over a cool lifestyle. I hope it wasn't in vain. Four grandchildren.

Eurocucks have forgotten how to make whoopie?

Maybe that's Auntie Angie was thinking when she invited all those randy virile young fellas:

Technology Transfer.

Seems to be working, no?

Replies: @guest

The Eurocucks are probably having more sex than you. The sub 80 IQ Africans just haven't mastered the art of birth control. Lack of access to or interest in sex is not a problem for most Europeans. Frequent sex is part of the hedonistic culture that makes them uninterested in having and raising children.

which agains leads to the strange thought that after all Merkel was doing something good for Europe by letting in all this Syrians and Pseudo-Syrians (e.g. any people from the MENA region). Better have millions of Arabs now, and claim you have done your duty in taking in people, than taking in millions of people from Ghana or Ivory Coast tomorrow.

Replies: @Anonymous

Most hispanics in the USA are majority nonwhite, no matter any delusions of theirs to the contrary.

Nor do we see most hispanics in the LA and OC Area "identifying as white." In any event, for an increasing number of the Mexican and other Latino arrivals from the past three decades, that just wouldn't be remotely plausible.

Replies: @Jack D, @cynthia curran

Very true. .I was a substitute teacher in the 90s. The best experience I had was teaching the bilingual classes.. mostly Mexicans , they were the best behaved students.
 

Replies: @Anon, @RadicalCenter, @RadicalCenter

Very true. .I was a substitute teacher in the 90s. The best experience I had was teaching the bilingual classes.. mostly Mexicans , they were the best behaved students.

That was also my experience with Mexican kids and with kids from Central America, with one exception: kids from El Salvador. The war was a disruptive experience. For example, there was a 16 year old in 7th grade because he had missed four years of schooling due to the war. No 16 year old is going to be happy in a 7th grade class.

Among the bilingual classes, I can think of some examples of of kids coming to the US without much prior schooling who made big jumps. One year I taught a 4th grade bilingual class. One kid was trying hard, but he was way behind. I thought to myself that the poor kid was mentally retarded. Fortunately, I kept my opinion to myself.The next year I saw the same class. He was at class level, and in English. I found out he had come to the US when he was 8 years old without prior schooling in Mexico. So, he had done five years of schooling in 3rd-5th grade.

That particular class also illustrates an issue about bilingual classes: they should be transitory, not permanent. The first year I had that class I noticed that several kids asked me what some Spanish words meant. My gut reaction was when a native speaker has to ask a Gringo what a word means in Spanish, it is time to move on to English. When I encountered the class the next year, guess what: the class was in English.

For an example of poorly done "bilingual" education, consider the baseball great Manny Ramirez. I read an article circa 1995 which informed its readers that Manny Ramirez was taking English lessons. Good for Manny, I thought- until I found out WHEN he came to the US. Manny came to the US when he was 13, and by the time of the article, had been in the US for ten years. Yet after TEN YEARS in the US he still needed English lessons. Why didn't he learn English when he was 13-14 years old? That would be the best time to learn.

The responsibility for Manny Ramirez's not learning English when he came to the US lies with the NYC educational system. The "bilingual" system instead kept him trapped in a Spanish language ghetto. It should be called monolingual instead.

If done correctly,as in many parts of Texas, bilingual education transfers students to all-English classes within a year or two. Bilingual education should not be a monolingual Spanish language ghetto.

The extreme example for this is Switzerland, where bus-drivers in some places make more money than Geraman Junior-Professors - not to mention carpenters, who can quite easily make ten thousend/ year more, then bus-drivers in Siwtzerland, whereas it's not at all unusual, that architects in Germany are being paid a quarter (no mistake) of the swiss carpenter's wage.

Replies: @Mr. Anon

Sailer habitually errs on the side of interpreting the bad guys as generously as possible.

Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack Hanson

Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.
-Nietzsche

The comic book industry was created by those "excluded" folks to name one industry.

Replies: @Anonym

And by 1933 it was half of that, and much less at Yale and Princeton.

Roth loves America DESPITE the discrimination. He lived thru that era (as a boy). He has no reason to lie. America was not Nazi Germany, but discrimination against Jews was real.

Replies: @Opinionator

I was upset not seeing MIT in the list. To my humble knowledge it is a pretty good University.

You were overly gentle when you decided to let it go at # 6.



Nice list, though.

That's actually one of the jokes circulating down yonder.

Another is that he is a new Greener superhero: Captain Bait Shop (for the worms on his haid).

I've also heard that they are Olympia's new roller derby team: the Evergreen Garden Sluggers (reference to that apartment complex).

But I don't like jokes that deride banana slugs, who actually work for a living and don't cause trouble. :D

I was disgusted with Harvard before this. Long before this.

>Anyone who’s not completely disgusted at Harvard for this is an enemy of Western civilization.

Broke: being disgusted at Harvard for this

Woke: Harvard is an enemy of Western Civilization

When you see trailer parks blasted to splinters by a tornado (which you often do) it's not because tornadoes are magically attracted to trailers, it's because trailers are shoddily built. I am familiar with construction costs and there's no way you can build a 1,500 sq. ft house (about the size of a double wide trailer) for $20,000 or even close to it. The only way they are doing this is by taking severe short cuts in the construction. Anyway, I assume that $20,000 buys you a used trailer - trailers are more like cars that depreciate rapidly than they are to normal houses which tend to retain their value.

Replies: @Discordiax

I'd never buy a trailer in a hurricane-prone state, no matter what the amenities. I'd rather not get blown to smithereens.

"They could attack the Economist or the BBC and slaughter the entire senior staff and the people that take over will still say exactly the same."

It's worth a try.

Replies: @SteveRogers42

correct

the enemy within is the only real obstacle to eliminating this problem

a self confident united western civilization such as existed before the 60's would crush islam(ic extremism) as soon as yesterday if it had the will to do so.

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague."
Cicero

True. The bogeyman we face is always portrayed as the Muslim fanatic, as if we were powerless to defeat these primitive monsters.

We could mop up these primitives in a fortnight--nothing too violent--just deport the lot of them back to their ancestral kingdoms, were it not for the bloody fool liberal goodwhites who always stand in the way of doing what is reasonable to save one's civilization.

They are the true enemy of Western Civilization, and they must be defeated if we have any hope to survive.

Well, we'd look at the bright side, now wouldn't we. A European city or two being nuked would create more living space for third-world immigrants. Win-win!

The problem is clearly not radical Islam, but radical liberalism.
 

The problem is clearly not radical Islam, but radical liberalism.
 

The SAS was deployed to Manchester immediately after that attack and now London.

Replies: @Tim Howells, @Randal

Precisely. Great comment!

The SAS is the most fearsome of all the world's many elite warrior groups - so I'm told. I wasn't in the Special Forces or a comparable unit. I was just another dog face - not elite in any way. But I served with Special Forces and I know what they can do and can't do. If the SAS is indeed more formidable than our comparable US units like the Navy Seals - then I for one wouldn't want to mess with them.

But so what?

It makes no sense to convert SAS commandos into garrison troops. Use the SAS for an appropriate mission. Drop some of them somewhere were they can do something covert that requires specialized training. I expect the Brits will soon adopt a more 'forward' strategy. They can't win or even stay even if they play defense. That approach cedes the initiative to the bad guys.

America and England can only compete against the populous and motivated Muslims by using our technological advantages. This means the air delivery of weapons of mass destruction.

Is it wrong to drop biological weapons on Iran? Ask me again after a couple more years of terrorist raids.

Replies: @Sunbeam, @Anonymous, @Mr. Anon, @bored identity

Agree.

You could also point out that Britain doesn’t have SAS guys to defend London against the jihadis because they are deployed to the Middle East training jihadis to overthrow a secular Syria. The insanity of it.
 

So you condone theft, then?