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    As a New Year's present, here's a new Open Thread for the Karlin commenting community, jump started with a few relocated comments from the previous thread. --- Ron Unz
  • @Thulean Friend
    @melanf


    Art should reach the viewer’s heart by itself and not through books. To draw bulls and horses (as an artist), you need to have something that Picasso did not have – the talent of an artist. Scandals, radical leftist views, etc. cannot replace talent
     
    As songbird pointed out, he did paint pretty well by age 15.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d6/Science_and_Charity_by_Picasso.jpg

    Picasso's regression tracked closely to the art world in general. A younger female in my social circle bought this tasteless pillow to me as a joke:

    https://i.imgur.com/W43cpCW.jpg

    She clearly understands that it's low class, fit for a joke, even if the motif is a work by Picasso. (I haven't worked up the courage to throw/give it away since she would be upset if she noticed it missing).

    So here a clear regression from someone who was obviously talented. We cannot explain this by lack of talent. Was it an individual matter? No, because since Picasso's time, art has degenerated and outright regressed further:

    https://i.imgur.com/SEgFi1l.jpg


    It's a systematic shift. Once such a shift occurs in a society, it produces incentives to create trash. Artists are no less corruptible than any of us, despite pretensions suggesting otherwise.

    Replies: @melanf

    As songbird pointed out, he did paint pretty well by age 15.

    Of course, Piсasso knew the technique of painting. But in order to create something great, in addition to technology, you also need talent – but Picasso did not have talent. He was an ordinary child prodigy who learned very early to create very ordinary paintings – and this was probably his limit. But Picasso succeeded as a “modern artist” – that is, the world-famous bubble with emptiness, which creates a cryptocurrency for tikons. Picasso’s paintings have as much artistic talent as Bitcoin
    The “salon” painters, like Alma-Tadema or Semiradsky, who were spat upon by criticism, as artists surpassed Picasso absolutely

    • Replies: @utu
    @melanf

    The whole discussion about Picasso is pointless. But you are correct that painters like Semiradsky, who are virtually unknown, were great. Also the 19th century orientalism in painting was great.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Chassériau_Esther_1841.jpg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Le_Bain_Turc%2C_by_Jean_Auguste_Dominique_Ingres%2C_from_C2RMF_retouched.jpg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Geromeslavemarket.jpg

    And there are so many more good paintings out there that I haven't been exposed to while undergoing art education because it was all about impressionism, expressionism, cubisms, surrealism and so on. While there are some good paintings that were created by impressionists and even by some abstract expressionists in general most of them are forgettable. It seems that the whole movement of modern paintings was a one big mistake. Now I feel like loathing impressionism when I think of it.

    But I have a great respect for Marcel Duchamp because he saw through it (he was the first who saw it) that on the conceptual level one can exhaust all possibilities pretty fast so he tried everything showing that he also can and then he came with 'Fountain' as the final statement one can make in art. Unfortunately he was mistaken by not taking the financial aspect into account and then he succumbed to money by making replicas of 'Fountain' years later. But he was right the first time.

  • @Dmitry
    @LatW


    any ideas about the bull?

     

    Probably there are many books written on this topic.

    From some mid-point of his career, Picasso is inspired very deep by ancient Mediterranean symbols, classical world, and even older art (cave painting) where the bull is a central subject.

    He was influenced by cave painting of his region. E.g. in cave of Altamira in Spain, called the “The Sistine Chapel of the cave art”. These ancient paintings focus mainly on animals, especially bulls and horses (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyIfPbn0RDs.)

    Lascaux cave painting of Southern France was only discovered a short time when Picasso was almost 70 years old, but many of those 17,000 year old painting even look like works of Picasso.

    As kind of stereotypical of Spanish (or Catalan) of his epoch, he was of course obsessed also with a theme of the embrace of death between bulls and matadors. You can see the famous poems of Spanish poet Federico García Lorca on this theme, which reminds of some Picasso paintings.
    https://www.theliteraryreview.org/poetry-2/lament-for-the-death-of-ignacio-sanchez-mejias/

    I guess it sounds a bit too much of the national stereotype
    Picasso was painting these matador scenes in many different styles. But he was painting bulls and horses in many other kind of context for decades. So I guess it has many different meanings across his career.


    namely through receiving comfort, love
     
    You know the style of writing you can read people write on the labels in the art gallery? "Aside from expressing aspirations of spirituality, paintings of female nudes can trigger desires, lust, and jealously - all these themes that European artistic tradition has explored for centuries."

    Conflicted way of perceiving female body, is not specific for Picasso, but part of the art tradition. Although Picasso is famous for being obsessed with this theme and I guess a lot of books are written about it. There are probably dozens of professors, who have a whole career writing about Picasso's difficult relation to women.

    Replies: @LatW, @melanf

    Probably there are many books written on this topic.

    Art should reach the viewer’s heart by itself and not through books. To draw bulls and horses (as an artist), you need to have something that Pixasso did not have – the talent of an artist. Scandals, radical leftist views, etc. cannot replace talent

    • Replies: @songbird
    @melanf

    Many creative types were evolved to work with patrons telling them what they want - and those mostly conservative aristocrats.

    They are plagued by excitatory impulses that help them create, and deeply lacking in inhibitory impulses that would allow them to self-censor. Or independently create something that is moral. More than that, many are even lacking in good ideas, and need an editor who knows them to pitch them something, which would be appropriate to their talents.

    In a way, society not giving them these things is society failing them, as much as it is failing itself.

    "Science and Charity" (1897), likely suggested to Picasso by his father, is quite good for a 15 y.o.

    , @Thulean Friend
    @melanf


    Art should reach the viewer’s heart by itself and not through books. To draw bulls and horses (as an artist), you need to have something that Picasso did not have – the talent of an artist. Scandals, radical leftist views, etc. cannot replace talent
     
    As songbird pointed out, he did paint pretty well by age 15.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d6/Science_and_Charity_by_Picasso.jpg

    Picasso's regression tracked closely to the art world in general. A younger female in my social circle bought this tasteless pillow to me as a joke:

    https://i.imgur.com/W43cpCW.jpg

    She clearly understands that it's low class, fit for a joke, even if the motif is a work by Picasso. (I haven't worked up the courage to throw/give it away since she would be upset if she noticed it missing).

    So here a clear regression from someone who was obviously talented. We cannot explain this by lack of talent. Was it an individual matter? No, because since Picasso's time, art has degenerated and outright regressed further:

    https://i.imgur.com/SEgFi1l.jpg


    It's a systematic shift. Once such a shift occurs in a society, it produces incentives to create trash. Artists are no less corruptible than any of us, despite pretensions suggesting otherwise.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf

    Soviet-era physicians were not only far more competent than modern ones (in part because 90s corruption destroyed a lot and forced a lot of potential teachers to emigrate, and in part because they were forced to due to primitive conditions) but also much better read. Your celebration of philistinism is unfounded.

    So in addition to studying biology and physics on a higher level, they also read Tolstoy or Borges, rather than play video games or “read” manga. And in this way Martyanov , a mediocre but educated military officer, comes across as being very well read.

    Replies: @melanf

    Soviet-era physicians were not only far more competent than modern ones

    There is absolutely no evidence for this claim

    but also much better read

    Is that why there are many anti-vaxxers among them?

    So in addition to studying biology and physics on a higher level, they also read Tolstoy

    Not in addition, but instead

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    Soviet-era physicians were not only far more competent than modern ones

    There is absolutely no evidence for this claim
     
    The well read Soviet physicians who moved out of the USSR right after the USSR collapsed got great careers in the USA and Israel and other places where they moved to. They compare very well to their Western peers. Generally speaking they are more skilled. Recent graduates in Russia do not have such a great reputation on the other hand when they move West. Several of my in-laws are professors at medical institutes on Moscow, one is member of the Academy of Sciences; they complain how much lower the quality is with each year and are sad for the country. Many of their colleagues left, in-laws didn't out of patriotism but that was rare. Who wanted to make $200 per month in the 90s when they could live very well in the West? Or simply change fields. I know a brilliant young specialist in Moscow who in the 90s got into selling high end electronic equipment to oligarchs, he is very wealthy now but his skills are lost to his field. But the people whose second homes in Switzerland have perfect acoustics thanks to his work there appreciate his high degree of intelligence and craft. It is true of most of Russian higher education, though there are exceptions (Mekhmat where my nephew studies, and Phystek are still very good). The brain drain was significant, not many were left to teach the next generation. Educational "reforms" further degraded the quality of the students. There was a lot of corruption with the arrival of Armenians and others. The decline has been remarkable. So yes, Soviet physicians read literature and also understood biology better than do modern Russian physicians (recent graduates). There are still some good young physicians, but I would be careful about seeing a Russian physician under a certain age.

    Such reforms are good for the purpose of producing a less educated, more narrowly focused generation who can be more compliant and manipulated. Americanization.

    USSR was disgusting in many ways but it did at least produce some people who could appreciate many things. So people who moved to the West in the early 90s have equaled their Western-educated colleagues professionally but at the same time complain they they can't discuss literature or share in classical music or whatever with their Western peers.

    but also much better read

    Is that why there are many anti-vaxxers among them?
     
    Anti-vaxxing is a function of paranoia and lack of trust in authorities, not education. Soviets learned not to trust authorities. So did blacks in America, and poor American whites. All three groups tend to be anti-vaxxers. But actually none of the older physicians I know in Russia are anti-vaxxers, they have all been vaccinated.

    So in addition to studying biology and physics on a higher level, they also read Tolstoy

    Not in addition, but instead
     
    You are saying Russian science students or medical students (with some exceptions) today are better educated in physics or biology than, say, in 1985? LOL.

    Replies: @Dmitry, @Chairman Meow

  • @Yellowface Anon
    @melanf

    Because success isn't judged by economic, but cultural criteria.

    Replies: @melanf

    Because success isn’t judged by economic, but cultural criteria.

    When people in a pandemic do not want to be vaccinated, because instead of biology they studied Leo tolstoy: is this a success?

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @melanf

    Because those people don't live in a world where new biotech is employed in vaccination regardless of its maturity, or Big Pharma are rent-seeking, but a world where a different order exist. Different civilizational outlooks. Instead of universals, particulars are resurging. Instead of a single world and humanity there are multiple civilizational spheres. And even in a civilization there are diverging tendencies in ideology.

    This explains the Red-Blue divide and why it will ultimately lead to secession.

    Replies: @PedroAstra

    , @AP
    @melanf

    Soviet-era physicians were not only far more competent than modern ones (in part because 90s corruption destroyed a lot and forced a lot of potential teachers to emigrate, and in part because they were forced to due to primitive conditions) but also much better read. Your celebration of philistinism is unfounded.

    So in addition to studying biology and physics on a higher level, they also read Tolstoy or Borges, rather than play video games or “read” manga. And in this way Martyanov , a mediocre but educated military officer, comes across as being very well read.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @Dmitry
    @Aedib

    Kazakhstan's government has been pro-Western. They also prefer to give contracts for resource extraction mainly to Western companies. Lukoil just has a small share of Karachaganak.

    For examples. Tengiz - Chevron, ExxonMobil, Shell. Karachaganak - ExxonMobil, Lukoil (18%), Shell. Kashagan - Eni, Shell, Total, ExxonMobil.

    So, it's not too surprising that some Western external ministries will be panicking if Russia increases influence in Kazakhstan, but this is in a reactionary way as they might lose some of their influence. This is if support from Russia during protests encourage Tokaev to begin less pro-Western policy than predecessor Nazarbaev.

    My writing all sounds very cynical though. Of course, whether their protests would improve anything or not (probably not), all sympathies for the working class of Kazakhstan, whose resources of their country more often stolen by a narrow elite, than re-invested into improving their future.

    Replies: @melanf

    whose resources of their country more often stolen by a narrow elite, than re-invested into improving their future.

    It makes sense to compare Kazakhstan’s elites with what kind of elite Kazakhstan could potentially have at all.Undoubtedly, the elites work better in the elf kingdom, but if compared with other Central Asian countries, Kazakhstan has a very decent management

    Of course, whether their protests would improve anything or not (probably not), all sympathies for the working class

    This “working class” is the mambets, that is, the lumpens – a complete analogue of the American looters. When “protests” turn into general looting, it is better to exterminate such protesters (who rob hospitals in search of drugs) because this is human filth

  • @AP
    @Dmitry

    I found this post thanks to the response.


    He definitely knows far more of 20th century literature, than any normal people. This is not typical.
     
    I know lots of educated Russian people over 45 (perhaps the cutoff is 48 or so) and they are as well-read as he is (and far more than I, raised in the USA, am). I'm not sure why you found him to be more well-read than typical educated Russians his age. Perhaps you don't spend much time with educated older Russians. There is a dramatic cutoff after which Russians started to read much less, perhaps because they were too busy surviving. And after that, the next batch of Russians were more like non-reading Westerners, distracted by other things that they can enjoy with the wealth that previous Russian generations didn't have.

    He looks around 70 or 75 years old, so he perhaps moved to the USA because of his children have dragged him there, and this could explain why he seems to hate the USA.
     
    IIRC he left the USSR right when he was young, in the beginning of the 90s, after having graduated from a naval academy with an engineering background and having been a low ranking naval officer for a few years. So he is probably around 60.

    Someone like that should have had a successful career in technology in the 1990s. Instead, it seems that he just tutored kids at private schools, the sort of job an educated pensioner would do, not a man in the prime of his life. So something went wrong in his life, this could explain his bitterness towards the USA. And sadly for him, by the time Russia got back on its feet he was too old to go back. Or he might be from another republic, not even a Russian citizen, so he is an orphan with nothing to come back to. He can only admire and idealize Russia from a distance and feel good about Russia being stronger or more wily than the West - living vicariously through Russia like a Balkanoid.

    Replies: @melanf, @Dmitry

    I know lots of educated Russian people over 45 (perhaps the cutoff is 48 or so) and they are as well-read as he is (and far more than I, raised in the USA, am). I’m not sure why you found him to be more well-read than typical educated Russians his age. Perhaps you don’t spend much time with educated older Russians.

    There is absolutely nothing good about it. All this is a bad parody of the officials of old China, when a person is evaluated not by his professional qualities, but by knowledge of the “classics”. Here, too, a for example doctor among the Russian “intelligentsia” is evaluated by how well he knows Chekhov and Pasternak, but how many patients will leave after treatment to the morgue is the tenth thing in comparison with Chekhov

    All this led to an ugly distortion in education, the appearance of a large number of parasites engaged in “Russian language and literature”, etc., etc.

    • Disagree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @melanf

    Because success isn't judged by economic, but cultural criteria.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @Yevardian
    @melanf

    Quite unfair to compare a rank opportunist like Alcibiades to a great visionary like Caesar.

    Replies: @melanf

    Both were talented ambitious people, ready to achieve their goals by any means. It is possible that Caesar was not capable of treason, unlike Alcibiades, but nevertheless they had a certain psychological similarity

  • @LatW
    @melanf


    that Arminius is Sigurd’s prototype is a very dubious assumption
     
    Haha, not for us, romantic types. :) There's a spiritual connection between them.


    These people eventually killed Arminius out of love for freedom, as Arminius sought to restrict this very freedom in favor of his own power.
     
    That's understandable, that means he was strong. That kind of strife was very normal at that time. Btw, they also robbed him of his wife and child, very tragic.

    We will never know Arminius’ motives – it could equally well have been a “patriot” dreaming of freedom from the Romans, or an unprincipled ambitious man who believed that it was better to be first in the village than second in Rome.
     
    If he had been an "unprincipled ambitious man", wouldn't it have made more sense to stay in Rome? Didn't it have higher status and more opportunities back then? Nothing wrong with "ambitious", btw, in either of these scenarios.

    Of course, I'm idealizing a bit, but there is a similar case in the Baltic history, during a much much later period, there was a man in Old Prussia, called Herkus Mantas, who as a child had been taken to Germany and educated and "civilized" there, but came back to lead the Prussian uprising against the Crusaders. He died a true heroic death. But of course there would have been nothing wrong there if he had returned purely out of some selfish ambition (as that, too, would have benefited the Prussians). He really reminds me of Arminius, so I think there's definitely something to it in terms of freedom and patriotism. Of course, during the times of Arminius, it's very hard to think of any concept of "patria" in the German lands, but I'm sure there were deeper bonds. Btw, I'm sure you are aware of all the speculations about how these events separated Central Europe from Rome and led to the eventual events in Germany and all of Europe.

    Replies: @melanf

    If he had been an “unprincipled ambitious man”, wouldn’t it have made more sense to stay in Rome?

    To raise an uprising to create your own kingdom, instead of the careless life of a Roman servant, is an absolutely logical course of action for an ancient ambitious man like Alcibiades or the same Caesar. It is quite possible that Arminius was of the same material

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @melanf

    Quite unfair to compare a rank opportunist like Alcibiades to a great visionary like Caesar.

    Replies: @melanf

    , @LatW
    @melanf


    To raise an uprising to create your own kingdom, instead of the careless life of a Roman servant, is an absolutely logical course of action for an ancient ambitious man like Alcibiades or the same Caesar. It is quite possible that Arminius was of the same material
     
    You have a point, of course. However, Arminius technically led the Romans into his ancestral lands. If the Romans had succeeded in colonizing the German lands (they had already taken over some parts of Central Europe), Arminius could be put in charge of those lands (as legatus or praetor or something like that). Maybe his father in law suspected that and that's why he tried to get rid of him by trying to tell on him to the Romans.
  • @LatW
    @Dmitry


    By comparison, in “Germania” (Tacitus), writes famously about the strange and exotic appearance of Germans, and their large size, etc.
     
    The descriptions of the Varian Disaster are quite captivating in this regard, the Romans were of smaller stature but carried all the superior artifacts of the Roman civilization as they marched through the forest, imagine Varus riding slowly on his horse, wearing his intimidating steel mask and carrying the majestic imperial eagle standard. And yet they were smaller in size. Although the Roman legionaries were hand picked and typically taller and more robust than the average Roman citizen.

    Arminius (Hermann), a true embodiment of the ancient hero Sigurd, was often portrayed with long wavy hair and an elongated face. Obviously very freedom loving, since he was willing to give up his Roman military career to protect his people.

    Replies: @melanf

    Arminius (Hermann), a true embodiment of the ancient hero Sigurd,

    As far as I know, philologists claim that “Arminius” could not be a distortion of the name Herman (i.e. Arminius was not called Herman – his Germanic name is unknown). To assert (based on the presence of some songs about Arminius mentioned by Tacitus) that Arminius is Sigurd’s prototype is a very dubious assumption

    Obviously very freedom loving, since he was willing to give up his Roman military career to protect his people.

    These people eventually killed Arminius out of love for freedom, as Arminius sought to restrict this very freedom in favor of his own power.
    We will never know Arminius’ motives – it could equally well have been a “patriot” dreaming of freedom from the Romans, or an unprincipled ambitious man who believed that it was better to be first in the village than second in Rome.

    • Replies: @LatW
    @melanf


    that Arminius is Sigurd’s prototype is a very dubious assumption
     
    Haha, not for us, romantic types. :) There's a spiritual connection between them.


    These people eventually killed Arminius out of love for freedom, as Arminius sought to restrict this very freedom in favor of his own power.
     
    That's understandable, that means he was strong. That kind of strife was very normal at that time. Btw, they also robbed him of his wife and child, very tragic.

    We will never know Arminius’ motives – it could equally well have been a “patriot” dreaming of freedom from the Romans, or an unprincipled ambitious man who believed that it was better to be first in the village than second in Rome.
     
    If he had been an "unprincipled ambitious man", wouldn't it have made more sense to stay in Rome? Didn't it have higher status and more opportunities back then? Nothing wrong with "ambitious", btw, in either of these scenarios.

    Of course, I'm idealizing a bit, but there is a similar case in the Baltic history, during a much much later period, there was a man in Old Prussia, called Herkus Mantas, who as a child had been taken to Germany and educated and "civilized" there, but came back to lead the Prussian uprising against the Crusaders. He died a true heroic death. But of course there would have been nothing wrong there if he had returned purely out of some selfish ambition (as that, too, would have benefited the Prussians). He really reminds me of Arminius, so I think there's definitely something to it in terms of freedom and patriotism. Of course, during the times of Arminius, it's very hard to think of any concept of "patria" in the German lands, but I'm sure there were deeper bonds. Btw, I'm sure you are aware of all the speculations about how these events separated Central Europe from Rome and led to the eventual events in Germany and all of Europe.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @Dmitry


    Bourgeoisie refers to owners of means of production (i.e. capital goods) in a capitalist economy
     
    That is the Marxist term. I think of it as middle class, and includes many lawyers for example.

    Although if I recall from a history book, most of the pre-industrial upper class in Europe had climbed from merchant families, while a smaller proportion from military families.
     
    In eastern Europe the roots seem to have been from soldiers or pre-agricultural tribal elders (boyars).

    In the 19th century, most of the funding for art, would be from owners of the capital goods (e.g. bourgeoisie), as this became the centre of the economy.
     
    They hadn't completely taken over society yet (at least not psychologically) and still aspired upwards. Musil had some funny observations of actual aristocratic homes being run down while those of new rich being far more perfect approximations. But the result was that beauty was still being sponsored and produced. Eventually the trend became downward.

    Replies: @melanf, @Dmitry

    In eastern Europe …. pre-agricultural tribal elders (boyars).

    ?????
    Agriculture in eastern Europe has dominated over any other types of activity for at least 5,000 years. Boyars when they appear in written sources are definitely the aristocracy of agricultural society

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    You are correct and I was mistaken. I was thinking of the Slavs in their ancient homeland in the swamps and forests where in addition to raising crops, fishing and hunting and cattle breeding were also important activities but it would be wrong not to classify these as agricultural societies. Their skill at agriculture contributed to their population expansion.

  • @Dmitry
    @melanf

    This is a great work, if you conceived this originally? Maybe I misunderstand you, but you invent this concept yourself? I can see you should become a wealthy concept artist if you can invent things like this regularly, secure some venture funding.

    Although sell your products on Etsy, don't give your artistic invention for free on the internet forums.

    I can now print this and post it above my desk without paying. If I had less ethics, I can put this in my office and tell people I made it, everyone would think I am a creative person lol.

    Replies: @melanf

    This is a masterwork, if you conceived this originally?

    I conceived the pictures myself, at the request of my wife for a homemade calendar. On reddit, this comic has collected 6 likes – an objective assessment of my artistic abilities.
    But Marc Chagall, without his bloated fame, collected even fewer likes on reddit with his pictures. But Velasquez or Rubens would easily collect tens of thousands of likes

    don’t give your artistic talent for free

    Well, my stupid drawings save me money – my wife gave this New Year’s card to friends, so about a thousand rubles were saved (without postcards she would have had to buy souvenirs)

    I can put this in my office and tell people I made it

    I don’t mind. But technically, my signature is hidden in this pictures

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @melanf


    conceived the pictures myself,
     
    Well you have creativity, not in terms of drawing, but invention and sense of humor. Some studies in a comic drawing class and you can change professions.

    comic has collected 6 likes – an objective assessment of my artistic abilities
     
    The important criteria would be what proportion of voters like vs dislike. If there are few votes, it just means that a post was not visible to many people. If you want something viral in Reddit, you can use bots to increase votes, as there is almost no security against this in Reddit's platform.

    I wouldn't want my ideas to become viral in Reddit before finalized, because if it becomes viral then a thousand art students or comics will copy it.

  • @Thulean Friend
    Jeff Bezos lost $40 billion in a divorce but he looks happier than ever.

    https://i.imgur.com/FztuUAS.jpg

    He also made the correct move of shaving his hair instead of trying to latch onto a fake toupé like Musk when he started to bald.

    Replies: @Yevardian, @Barbarossa, @Pericles, @Philip Owen, @melanf

    Either a bad photo, or Bezos is wasting his money badly. With his wealth, he could buy himself a concubine at the sight of which the men would be dumb with delight and envy, and not this lady with the face of a bitch

    • Replies: @Barbarossa
    @melanf

    It's not an unfairly bad photo. Her face looks less bad in that shot than most other pictures I've seen.
    Sad. Yet somehow fitting.

  • @Mr. Hack
    @songbird


    I agree that Picasso had a lot of skill, and so it is hard to understand why he was driven to create distorted abstractions. Most of what he did seems like some form of mental illness (“Blue Period”) , but nowhere near as compelling as van Gogh. Personally speaking, I hate about 99.99% of modern abstract art.
     
    Every period of art history had its own style and manner of representation. Medieval art saw the advent (towards the end) of adding perspective to the representations, something totally new. Renaisance art had its own lexicon often based on ancient motifs, but presented in a totally new manner. And so it was with the pioneers of modern and abstract art. The way that I view it, these artists were moving away and getting bored with a realistic representati0n of the world, and searching to express themselves in new ways. They were trying to express more how they felt towards the subject matter, and less with representing things in a photographic manner.

    I think of it as recalling a dream, where you may have very vivid images, yet the images don't include sharp clear boundaries. Have you ever had a dream where a person changes into somebody else than what he originally appeared to be? A very interesting experience, that may be more interesting than what one encounters in ones day to day experiences. How about dreams in which you can fly?Chagall, the great Russian painter, expressed this motif quite well in at least one of his works that I'm aware of:

    https://baltic-amber.biz/image/cache/Products/Nastya/Paintings3.10.2020/31020481585-600x600.jpg

    Replies: @melanf, @sudden death

    the great Russian painter, expressed this motif quite well in at least one of his works that I’m aware of:

    Funny joke. The Jew Marc Chagall with his children’s drawings turned into a “great artist”. Then I’m probably a great artist too

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    @melanf

    This is a great work, if you conceived this originally? Maybe I misunderstand you, but you invent this concept yourself? I can see you should become a wealthy concept artist if you can invent things like this regularly, secure some venture funding.

    Although sell your products on Etsy, don't give your artistic invention for free on the internet forums.

    I can now print this and post it above my desk without paying. If I had less ethics, I can put this in my office and tell people I made it, everyone would think I am a creative person lol.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @Yellowface Anon
    @silviosilver

    Neoreactionary world, Amish world, Duginist world, Islamist world, Hindutva world. Haven't found a large enough reactionary sect in the Sinosphere yet.

    Replies: @melanf

    Duginist world

    This is a non-existent phenomenon

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @melanf

    Yes, not gonna happen with Putin & his successors.

    To rate their distance from centers of power, Islamists & Hindutva are in power in their respective countries, Neoreactionaries are set to take over the US riding on the back of radicalizing Trumpists, and the Amish are quietly breeding themselves to demographic dominance. Dugin? Still babbling in think tanks.

    Anyone mind to suggest me a genuinely Chinese reactionary movement anywhere? Neither nationalists in China or the Nationalists in Taiwan are genuinely reactionary, LKY is at most a clever paleoconservative, and everyone else is a joke.

  • @Dmitry
    @Mikhail


    Middle East typically look more Syrian
     
    Yes you can see in Israel, the population is a mix of many races, although to be fair to Israel unlike in some claims the majority of people are (Jews and Muslims) immigrants directly from nearby regions of the Middle East, and this is evident in the appearance of the population.

    For genetics of European Jews, there would be surely pre-existing desire to discover their origin as native to the Middle East, as this would both match the secular political state-building, as well as religious narratives.

    So it's understandable that conspiracy theorists can be questioning about genetic studies of European Jews, when the topic has a politically desired answer. But who knows? I'd like to believe scientists will try to be objective.

    -


    In terms of the Russian DNA, it's possible these commercial tests are discovering non-slavic ancestry, because the population of Russia which preceded the slavic tribes' invasion/colonization in Russia.

    This is just my superficial, amateur speculation.

    But slavic tribes immigrated to Russia in the 8th-9th century. But when the slavic population flooded into the territory as described in the chronicles, there were many native tribes in Russia who are perhaps only displaced culturally, rather than genetically.

    These nationalities which existed before the slavic tribes flood into Russia, like the Ves, Chud Zavolochskaya. These became mostly extinct in the cultural sense, but surely not in the genetic one. Perhaps this is one reason for the confusion of commercial genetic tests are saying many Russian people are not having slavic ancestry.

    When you look at pre-slavic populations of Russia like Vepsy today, it's not like we could visually distinguish them from the slavic (or slavicized) population.

    https://lenobl.ru/media/cache/21/6e/216eca8e43a15021eb33960751fa4471.png

    http://администрация-алеховщина.рф/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/24aaf3447d4fdbcc8ae16c6370d8510f.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @melanf, @melanf

    If you remove the national costume – an ordinary Northern European face

  • @Dmitry
    @Mikhail


    Middle East typically look more Syrian
     
    Yes you can see in Israel, the population is a mix of many races, although to be fair to Israel unlike in some claims the majority of people are (Jews and Muslims) immigrants directly from nearby regions of the Middle East, and this is evident in the appearance of the population.

    For genetics of European Jews, there would be surely pre-existing desire to discover their origin as native to the Middle East, as this would both match the secular political state-building, as well as religious narratives.

    So it's understandable that conspiracy theorists can be questioning about genetic studies of European Jews, when the topic has a politically desired answer. But who knows? I'd like to believe scientists will try to be objective.

    -


    In terms of the Russian DNA, it's possible these commercial tests are discovering non-slavic ancestry, because the population of Russia which preceded the slavic tribes' invasion/colonization in Russia.

    This is just my superficial, amateur speculation.

    But slavic tribes immigrated to Russia in the 8th-9th century. But when the slavic population flooded into the territory as described in the chronicles, there were many native tribes in Russia who are perhaps only displaced culturally, rather than genetically.

    These nationalities which existed before the slavic tribes flood into Russia, like the Ves, Chud Zavolochskaya. These became mostly extinct in the cultural sense, but surely not in the genetic one. Perhaps this is one reason for the confusion of commercial genetic tests are saying many Russian people are not having slavic ancestry.

    When you look at pre-slavic populations of Russia like Vepsy today, it's not like we could visually distinguish them from the slavic (or slavicized) population.

    https://lenobl.ru/media/cache/21/6e/216eca8e43a15021eb33960751fa4471.png

    http://администрация-алеховщина.рф/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/24aaf3447d4fdbcc8ae16c6370d8510f.jpg

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @melanf, @melanf

    When you look at pre-slavic populations of Russia like Vepsy today, it’s not like we could visually distinguish them from the slavic (or slavicized) population.

    At the level of individual people, it is impossible to know nationality by face. Bashir Assad’s family will easily fit into any European nation up to the southern shore of the Baltic Sea, although the Asads are definitely not Europeans

    But slavic tribes immigrated to Russia in the 8th-9th century.

    Where native speakers of the Slavic language lived before the 6th century is a riddle of riddles (perhaps somewhere in the territory of European Russia). But in any case, they appeared on the territory of Russia earlier than the 8th century

  • It was never my mission to pursue "activist" goals so much as to try to accurately understand and explain how the world works, and at best, play some modest role in informing the debate in those areas that I hoped could make use of some of my insights. From that perspective, my record of my...
  • The Substack refuses to sign me

    AK: Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Please check Reddit DMs.

    [MORE]

  • @German_reader
    @Yevardian


    I really have no idea what Unz is thinking with this. I guess, charitably, I could see it in the same context as the old ‘Ask A Mexican!’ column here, seemingly published solely for trolling his readership.
     
    "Ask a Mexican" could be genuinely considered as trolling, since it was at odds with all the WN (or at least anti-immigration) content published on Unz Review. By contrast the blog of "Raches" seems to be a logical evolution of the kind of "Hitler did nothing wrong" revisionism that has been a major feature of UR for several years.
    As for Unz's motivations, I can only assume that he thinks there's some well-known person hiding behind the "Raches" pseudonym. Unz has long claimed after all that many members of America's elite are reading UR and secretly agreeing with much of it, and maybe "Raches" has managed to play on this belief, flattering Unz's ego. But I admit that's just a wild guess on my part (I've only skimmed through UR in recent months, only noticed "Raches" when his blog was added and haven't looked closely at Unz's interactions with the guy). Doesn't really matter much anyway, whatever the reasons, this new bizarro blog will accelerate UR's decline into irrelevance.

    Replies: @Dmitry

    I think that we should try to emigrate to Karlin’s website – the “Karlin cult” should not allowed to die so prematurely.

    But why should you care where you agree or disagree with this Raches who is replacing Karlin? The more important question, is whether he introduces a topic interesting, where we can feel welcome to disagree, and moderates without authoritarianism.

    He was like a 2000s internet version, of one of these aristocratic women of the 18th century, who knows how to create the hospitable salon, introduce the topic, provoke the talkative people to respond – and then he sits down relaxing drinking tea (or more appropriately with popcorn).

    And the blog is obsessive about particular interests, he can use them with professional expertise to generation discussion that encompasses diverse and multinational possibilities.

    He knows if posts something about his love for Indian food, it will likely result in Utu and Beckow arguing about French soup. That soon Melanf will start to post photos of the mushrooms his wife has collected. That photo of a mushroom, will trigger Aaronb’s mind to think about American forests and he will start recommending national parks to Mikel that reminded him of his youth among trees in the Basque Country. Etc

    On the other hand, Karlin knows he could write about vegetarian burgers in Moscow, and Bashibuzuk’s mind (sitting in the office thousands of kilometres away in Edmonton) will be triggered about the thought of the mixed nationality Putinist hipsters that have conquered the elite streets of his native city. But after some cathartic comments expounded his anger against the multinational Putinists, the sun comes out and Bashibuzuk will start posting happy thoughts about Buddhism, which in turn will trigger the rage of AltanBakshi viewing how the white man misunderstands his religion, that invites Aaronb – and so on.

    There has been immense power of almost infinite regressions and possibilities, that Karlin holds in his hands skillfully and deftly, and you could see him something drunk on anticipation of the possibilities when he phrases like e.g. “So far as I am concerned, Putin has built the perfect state.”

    • Agree: Barbarossa, melanf
    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Dmitry


    The more important question, is whether he introduces a topic interesting, where we can respond, and moderates without authoritarianism.
     
    Just look at his blog, he's a self-styled authoritarian (who apparently bans commenters when they point out how absurd his martyr cult for the Goebbels family is). I think it's fair to assume that it would be nothing like AK's blog and a total waste of time to comment there.
    I agree that it would be nice if Karlin's community could still come together at AK's Substack or some other venue.
    , @utu
    @Dmitry


    He was like a 2000s internet version, of one of these aristocratic women of the 18th century, who knows how to create the hospitable salon, introduce the topic, provoke the talkative people to respond
     
    And most importantly who knows whom to forbid to enter. A necessary condition for "hospitable salon" is for it to be" inhospitable". Look at discussions under Ron Unz articles who subscribes to libertarian laissez faire fantasy of free access. This is what I wrote under his recent article on Covid origins:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/is-the-tide-finally-turning-on-covid-as-an-american-biowarfare-attack/#comment-4938860

    Seems like Ron Unz was hit by the Foucault pendulum he put in motion (see Umberto Eco). All he wanted was to promote a scenario that would help China to maintain its innocence narrative. He found or rather constructed one and tried to disseminate it. But instead thousands of alternative nihilistic narratives were created and spread among millions of active internet users who now pester Ron Unz publications whenever he tries to talk about the who and why of the pandemic. Were the bots and trolls responsible for the nihilistic narratives activated by people Ron Unz wanted to help? Apparently professionals in Lubyanka and Peking knew better what was good for them and what would work rather than the well-wisher amateurs like Ron Unz or Godfree Roberts. Now the useful idiots exemplified by Paul Craig Roberts and real trolls like Mike Whitney will carry the torch and Ron Unz is left behind with his good intentions and delusion of being influential.
     

    Replies: @Ron Unz, @Triteleia Laxa

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @Dmitry


    I think that we should try to emigrate to Karlin’s website – the “Karlin cult” should not allowed to die so prematurely.

     

    Well, I definitely hope to see many of you over at the Substack comments - I naturally will be there, though hopefully the quality of my comments will also improve accordingly...at least, when the whim strikes me. The commentators here have been an excellent source of information and conversation, and to see such a "coffee salon" maintained would be wonderful.
  • For the first time in more than a century, the Russians have a state that they can call their own, a state run by and for the Russian people - the hallowed "Russian National State" (RNS) that has been the holy grail of Russian nationalism in the post-Soviet era. At first glance, this seems like...
  • The central apse features a metallic relief dedicated to the Resurrection of Christ, the God-Emperor of the Russians, irradiating into the infinite blue, star-studded heavens. I am told that the 3D effect was created by the application of techniques used in Buddhist stupas

    The idea was of Mr. Shoigu who is a shamanic-Buddhist from Tuva, and the interior designer is also a shamanist from neighboring Buryatia, Mr. Namdakov.
    https://imgpile.com/images/UNxHEP.jpg
    Namdakov’s style.

    Who else should design Orthodox Christian mega-temples? What are you, some kind of racist?

    So. Two Mongoloid shamanists are the people behind the crypto-Mithraist military mega-temple.

    Just a bunch of fellow white Orthodox Slavs doing their thing.

    Mithra? Gilgamesh? Elric? Noooo. What? Noooo. Pfff, noooo.

    Also, a detail I do not find completely insignificant–Adolf Hitler’s personal belongings are also on the territory of the temple.
    All Christian temples need Nazi relics to generate mana.

    Frankly, all this is one step away from sending expeditions to the North Pole to find Shambala and Hyperborea. Unless this is already underway.
    We wuz Knyaz n sheit. Aryan astral pyramids for Christ.

    • Agree: melanf, Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Bashibuzuk
    @Rahan

    Shoigu is also a member of the Military Sovereign Order of Malta decorated with one of its highest regalia.

    https://sun9-29.userapi.com/impg/zSc4JMpABzrWjDPk6J80EjrLzZMU3up9G3JoPQ/WRLYO_0AnDY.jpg?size=480x360&quality=96&sign=3490020bda2e527ea06d0d52a5931819&type=album

    And my bets are on Shoigu playing an important role in post-Putin RusFed, just like he did in early Yeltsin RusFed starting from 1991, when VVP was driving a taxi in Piter.

    BTW, Russia might well end up ruled by a Shoigu and Sobyanin tandem.

    https://cdn-st1.rtr-vesti.ru/vh/pictures/xw/273/343/1.jpg

    So much for "Russian nationalism "...

    🙂

    Replies: @kzn, @Seraphim

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @Rahan

    Agreed, endorsed, based, and redpilled.

    Hard to think how that place could be made even better. Adding automated turrets and sentry bots?

    Minor correction: Hitler's uniform is actually kept in a sumptuously furbished museum called the 1,418 Steps of Victory (=the number of days in the GPW), which encircles the actual Cathedral in a loop that you walk through from the beginning of the war to the end.

    , @sudden death
    @Rahan


    Who else should design Orthodox Christian mega-temples? What are you, some kind of racist?

    So. Two Mongoloid shamanists are the people behind the crypto-Mithraist military mega-temple.

    Just a bunch of fellow white Orthodox Slavs doing their thing.

    Mithra? Gilgamesh? Elric? Noooo. What? Noooo. Pfff, noooo.
     

    That was a nice lol here, reminded the style of most entertaining Russian hardcore nationalist once in FB, originating from Kiev, who was writing for some time under the pseudoname of Alex Parker :)
    , @Dmitry
    @Rahan

    I'm starting to understand AK's view on this cathedral's architecture more - it's a kind of sciencefiction, mixed with socialist realism, and oligarch eccentricity.

    It's a culturally unique, as nobody in the world is attaining this kind of cathedral outside the postsoviet space. As a result, this style is at least differentiating Russia in a cultural level, even if not in a visually very beautiful way.

    If someone had created name for this style, then it could have entered the textbooks in the architecture department in university, and might even become popular with hipsters, and after reading a few essays on what they are thinking it might be easier to understand.

    -

    Aside from science fiction aesthetics of this example. There is not much of a connection of building churches with the stereotypical (anti-immigration) nationalist agenda in Russia, as the church construction requires guestworkers, and the head of the church is supporting the labour immigration. https://govoritmoskva.ru/news/139447/

    However, church is part of the semi-official power or semi-official state capacity. It extends state capacity to influence in a social or cultural sphere. So for government supporters, they should logically celebrate the construction of buildings that extend the state-capacity.

    Still the temple is not what it was in the social life of the previous centuries - it's not the central social space of the city or village as it was historically. It's more of an institution of only symbolic power, with 3% of public might visit for religious services even in Easter, and maybe 2% of active religious people who re-orient their life by it. Church has now a very strong, elite symbolic and political position, but its use very limited for managing country's social life.

    Replies: @AP, @Mr. Hack, @Bardon Kaldian

  • Quite a “Ukrainian” article. When the authorities (instead of solving real problems) engage in “patriotic” fetishism, there is nothing good about it. Cosplay of Ukraine cannot lead to anything good. Especially disgusting is the plundering of public money for the construction of ugly cathedrals for the Byzantine sect

  • 🇷🇺💪🇮🇳 * As usual, "real result" of United Russia would have been around 35% instead of 50% (and a simple majority instead of a Constitutional majority). But Western criticisms much less effective in the wake of analogous - if statistically implausible - claims about the 2020 US elections. * EVERGRANDE. I was a China bull...
  • @songbird
    @That Would Be Telling

    IMO, early Asimov is top form Asimov, with all his flaws (horrendous dialogue and characters)

    After being dubbed a great and getting more senescent, and physically declining from heart problems and HIV, his novels become very self-indulgent. His absolute low point was when he tried to tie everything together in one universe, with Hari Seldon becoming an obvious stand-in for himself.

    Replies: @melanf

    IMO, early Asimov is top form Asimov, with all his flaws (horrendous dialogue and characters)

    Yes. And this is typical for many authors (the same Herbert, Zelazny)

    • Agree: songbird
  • @That Would Be Telling
    @melanf

    No matter his many faults, and I think the Foundation series original trilogy is at the low end of his fiction, Asimov wrote compelling stories. Like our host, I only read one by Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment, and it was so awful and disgusting I wrote off reading anything more from from him.

    Replies: @melanf, @songbird

    I only read one by Herbert

    Herbert’s books are very different in level. In the Dune series, the first book is brilliantly written, the rest are monstrous trash. So in the case of Herbert, each book should be evaluated separately, they are sooooo different

  • @That Would Be Telling
    @Adept


    Are you seriously implying that this hierarchy — to whatever extent it actually exists — is an American thing, and that in China (and Japan, France, etc.) it is not just as well established?
     
    Of course not. Just that cheating in the PRC goes much higher up in the hierarchy. In part for cultural reasons, but above all because that's what the CCP incentivizes.

    Moderna and Germany’s BioNTech are both mRNA vaccines, developed along the same lines, at the same time, with the same tech. Moderna just happens to be much higher dosed. So your comparison here is a very odd one.
     
    Only odd if you've failed to notice the massive differences in the cold chains each requires, normal medical freezing for Moderna, dry ice or ultra-low temperature freezers for BioNTech's, as well as the latter being a lot more physically fragile. The next quote is out of order to illustrate a point:

    As an aside, that no US or western European countries developed a traditional SinoVac/Sputnik-style vaccine
     
    Umm, No. This is even before going into how "active" vaccines like mRNA ones are more traditional, like Jenner's all means to the end of getting some mRNA to make some viral proteins inside of cells.

    Because SinoVac's is a a "passive" inactivated whole virus vaccines, the very most primitive you can develop, and the type the anti-vaxxers love to tell us failed in their initial versions against SARS and then I assume MERS. And it turns out Valneva in France is trying to develop such a vaccine with U.K. money, but their "big" Phase III trial has only 4019 subjects. This is only useful to maybe get funding for a big, useful for authorization trial, and the U.K. recently canceled their contract(s) with the company for failure to perform, which I can believe based on just this one trial and no future non-tiny ones registered on ClinicalTrials.gov.

    On the other hand Sputnik V uses the second newest and previous to COVID least tested of technologies, and it's active to boot. The most we've seen from virus vector vaccines like it is the first Ebola vaccine, very successful in dealing with the last major outbreak, but uses a different and replication competent virus.

    While Janssen, Oxford, and Gamaleya of Sputnik V fame all use adenovirus vectors, and none prior to COVID got further than Janssen's European Phase III trial for their own Ebola vaccine, the first dose of which uses their Ad26 based vector. Sputnik V uses the same virus for their first dose, but Gamaleya made a terrible mistake with their second dose Ad5 vector platform, no one in Russia or Argentina so far can make it in quantity, the latter in a 6:1 ratio for their first non-test batch.

    So Sputnik V is more theory than practice in terms of fighting COVID being largely unobtanium, as utu said essentially correctly Russia's vaccine diplomacy began and ended with tiny San Marino (about 35,000 people). Although they're repurposing the first dose as Sputnik Light, it's very much like Janssen's one jab vaccine except grown in different human cells.

    Now, SinoVac and Sputnik are derived from a totally different technology, and a much more traditional one.
     
    See above, not in the least true for Sputnik, and all three Western adenovirus vector vaccines have had trouble getting produced in quantity. Whereas the much more simple mRNA vaccines have turned out for the same reason to be easier to manufacture in bulk, E. Coli beats human cell culture hands down, although there are a lot of in vitro steps in mRNA vaccine production after that workhorse bacteria makes DNA plasmids including the code for stabilized spike proteins.

    That's one more difference between Oxford and Gamaleya's vaccines and the rest of the Western ones, they use wild type spike proteins. Although I've lately been wondering if they get adorned with sugars like the true wild type from infections.

    Given this particular forum, I'll mention Russia has two other vaccines in the works, a very interesting one from the Vector Institute that presents three bits of proteins, currently from the spike protein, to the immune system along with an adjuvant, and another from the Chumakov Centre not so far along which is an inactivated whole virus vaccine. Which India's Bharat Biotech's version shows can also induce immunity to the "N" nucleocapsid protein, which is probably a very good thing.

    Replies: @melanf, @Adept

    Sputnik V uses the same virus for their first dose, but Gamaleya made a terrible mistake with their second dose Ad5 vector platform, no one in Russia or Argentina so far can make it in quantity, the latter in a 6:1 ratio for their first non-test batch.
    So Sputnik V is more theory than practice in terms of fighting COVID being largely unobtanium

    I do not know how things are in Argentina, but in Russia you can get four doses of Sputnik without any problems, that is, two first and two second (Ad5)

  • @The Big Red Scary
    Until the day when democracy can be put out of its misery, I’m happy to let the Russian government manage election outcomes. That said, plausibly establishing election fraud is much harder than amateurs claim it is. As for Shpilkin, apparently he couldn’t hack it in physics.

    Replies: @melanf

    Shpilkin could guess about the election results with the help of Tarot cards – the degree of” scientific ” of his work would not change from this. But the Russian authorities who have made the elections as opaque and dubious as possible are strategically doing great harm to themselves and the country

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    @melanf

    I agree. Faking of elections should be done more professionally, as in some other countries. Perhaps a foreign consultant should be hired.

    , @sudden death
    @melanf


    But the Russian authorities who have made the elections as opaque and dubious as possible are strategically doing great harm to themselves and the country
     
    Is there even actual need for this, except some stubborn sclerotic political inertia at the very top? I mean why should it hurt any real power balances or levers if UR was ordered from Kremlin to make a Duma ruling coalition with LDPR and New People party, which could be easily achieved without any excessive vote faking?
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    @Max Payne

    No, Asimov is absolutely great. I found Dune overrated IMO, worldbuilding is cool and unique but everything else seems meh, it's the only book of Herbert's I read.

    Harry Potter series in its entirety has sold more copies than any other literary work save the Bible and by a huge margin at that. It defined the cultural references of an entire generation, the Millennials. Like it or not, it is the crowning relic of our age. "Read Another Book" meme is the grudging acknowledgement of this reality.

    Replies: @melanf, @melanf

    No, Asimov is absolutely great.

    By what? Asimov’s “Foundation” is a pseudo-history transferred to the space of the distant future. The personages there are flat and formulaic and designed to illustrate the author’s sociological schemes. The adventures of heroes – in the style of books for middle school students (the level of Harry Potter, but on a template pseudoscientific-fantastical background). The only fresh idea is about the Jewish Freemasons who secretly rule the world with the help of telepathy and hypnosis. But the Bene Jasserit Order was invented by Herbert earlier

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @melanf

    No matter his many faults, and I think the Foundation series original trilogy is at the low end of his fiction, Asimov wrote compelling stories. Like our host, I only read one by Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment, and it was so awful and disgusting I wrote off reading anything more from from him.

    Replies: @melanf, @songbird

    , @inertial
    @melanf

    You can't compare a handful of self-contained short stories with an enormous novel. Azimov is a mediocre writer but he is a great sci-fi writer. Far better than Frank Herbert, who only wrote one good book.

    And where did get that Herbert invented Bene Gesserit before Azimov? Foundation predates Dune by 20+ years.

  • @Anatoly Karlin
    @Max Payne

    No, Asimov is absolutely great. I found Dune overrated IMO, worldbuilding is cool and unique but everything else seems meh, it's the only book of Herbert's I read.

    Harry Potter series in its entirety has sold more copies than any other literary work save the Bible and by a huge margin at that. It defined the cultural references of an entire generation, the Millennials. Like it or not, it is the crowning relic of our age. "Read Another Book" meme is the grudging acknowledgement of this reality.

    Replies: @melanf, @melanf

    No, Asimov is absolutely great. I found Dune overrated IMO, worldbuilding is cool and unique but everything else seems meh, it’s the only book of Herbert’s I read.

    A strange assessment. Half of the subsequent science fiction and fantasy is based on” Dune “- including” Star Wars “and”Warhammer”, which were licked from the Dune. In this regard (through their children like the mentioned Star Wars) Dune surpasses in its influence not only the sterile creation of Asimov, it far surpasses Harry Potter. The plot in Dune turns into irrational chaos after the first book (actually, only the first book should be read). But the first book is written brilliantly

    • Agree: Barbarossa
  • @Max Payne

    * Steve Sailer: Foundation vs. Dune. I wasn’t a big fan of the book, I allow that the movie will be better. Have yet to see it.
     
    It's a shame Jodorowsky had all his ideas stolen and denied the funding to make Dune. It would have been awesome.

    Also brah.... Your beta is showing. Harry Potter good? Asimov/Herbert meh? Does your shirt come in men's?

    Replies: @melanf, @Anatoly Karlin

    It’s a shame Jodorowsky had all his ideas stolen

    From what I know about the Jodorowsky dune , it’s lucky that this film was not made. This project was terrible

    • Disagree: anyone with a brain
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    @melanf


    «Единая Россия» (42%), возможный диапазон между 41-44%;
     
    Yes, forecast higher than percentage of "active voters" who intend to vote for UR (35%) according to their own polls, because they adjust up for fraud, though that's left politely unsaid.

    And even so, they're way off anyway, with UR getting 49.8%.

    I don't blame them, it's a fine line they have to toe as a fully state-owned enterprise between maintaining a reputation as an independent pollster without too openly embarrassing the political authorities.

    “Exit poll будут, если будет заказчик, это очень дорогое удовольствие. За свой счет его проводить не можем”, – пояснил Федоров.
     
    Just a major national election that happens twice a decade, no biggie, certainly not something worth spending any time or energy on at all. /s

    Replies: @melanf

    And even so, they’re way off anyway, with UR getting 49.8%.

    It’s not about that – if you refer to VTsIOM, it’s better to give the VTsIOM forecast (41-44%), and not other figures. If we consider the VTsIOM forecast to be false , it is better not to refer to VTsIOM completely.

    These data (from VTsIOM) are completely different from those that the fortune teller Shpilkin came up with. I was not interested in the question much, but I can say one thing for sure – Shpilkin’s “electoral mathematics” is such a shameful pseudoscience that a reference to this man discredits any statement

  • @Adept
    @That Would Be Telling


    "the hierarchy of sorts with math at the top, and the fields with extreme replication crisis problems at the bottom."

     

    Are you seriously implying that this hierarchy -- to whatever extent it actually exists -- is an American thing, and that in China (and Japan, France, etc.) it is not just as well established? If anything, it seems to me that engineers and physicists are higher-status in China and Europe than they are in the USA. (I mean working engineers and physicists, 99.9% of both professions. Sure, the USA has its handful of celebrity professors, but they're the exception rather than the rule.)

    Besides, money can sometimes be a decent proxy for status, and look at how professors in the US are paid:
    https://www.salary.com/articles/how-are-college-professors-paid/

    Law -- the greatest waste of human capital by a tremendous margin, quite literally a human capital shredder -- apparently pays best. Economics -- among the softest of the soft sciences -- pays better than physics or math.


    Thus see Moderna design its COVID vaccine literally over a weekend, which turned out to be safe, effective, relatively easy to manufacture, and and a lot more physically durable the BioNTech’s. Of course, that’s the results of decades of research and development in both mRNA vaccine platforms and designing safe vaccines, but they were ready when we really needed them.

     

    Moderna and Germany's BioNTech are both mRNA vaccines, developed along the same lines, at the same time, with the same tech. Moderna just happens to be much higher dosed. So your comparison here is a very odd one.

    Now, SinoVac and Sputnik are derived from a totally different technology, and a much more traditional one. They may not have been prepared over a weekend, but they were not introduced any later than Moderna, and I don't believe that they're much less effective. Data from just yesterday has SinoVac, Moderna, and AstraZeneca performing more or less comparably in Malaysia: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/sinovacs-covid-shot-highly-effective-against-serious-illness-malaysia-study-2021-09-24/

    As an aside, that no US or western European countries developed a traditional SinoVac/Sputnik-style vaccine was a huge, world-historical mistake. A mistake that understandably fueled all sorts of vaccine hesitancy.

    Anyway, if you're implying that Moderna is a triumph of American exceptionalism and that the Chinese are idiots, you're way off base.

    Replies: @melanf, @That Would Be Telling

    They may not have been prepared over a weekend

    The Sputnik V vaccine was created (using ready-made technology) in two weeks (according to its creator)

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
    @melanf



    They may not have been prepared over a weekend
     
    The Sputnik V vaccine was created (using ready-made technology) in two weeks (according to its creator)
     
    The timeline for when Janssen started testing their same technology vaccine candidates aligns with this (there's quite a delay while you make your first batch for testing, wait two weeks to prove sterility etc.).

    Once you have your adenovirus vector platform, two for Gamaleya but this work can be done in parallel, you've already knocked out their E3 set of genes that inhibit immune system responses, and all you have to do is replace or splice in place of the E1 genes for replication the DNA for the target.

    Which the whole world got access to on January 10th (not with CCP approval of course). Oxford had a head start because their second attempt at a MERS vaccine had its Phase I real start date in mid-December 2019. Thus allowing them to go straight to their Phase II test substituting the COVID for MERS spike protein, for example only used one dose for that (Phase I is all about dosing).
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    @melanf

    I had a look into that exit poll.

    INSOMAR is an organization I have never heard of (though Google informs me that they have a rating of 2.3/5, with people complaining about spam calls).

    Tellingly, VCIOM either did not do exit polls, or didn't publish them. Presumably because as usual they were lower than the official results, perhaps even more markedly so than in previous elections, but inventing numbers wouldn't do either, as they actually have something of a reputation to protect.

    Replies: @melanf, @kzn

    Tellingly, VCIOM either did not do exit polls

    Vtsiom stated that it would not conduct an exit poll since there is no customer
    https://ria.ru/20210823/vybory-1746911605.html?in=t
    “Exit poll будут, если будет заказчик, это очень дорогое удовольствие. За свой счет его проводить не можем”, – пояснил Федоров.
    Впрочем, он подчеркнул, что ВЦИОМ готов провести всю необходимую работу, если заказчик все-таки появится. Время на подготовку, по его словам, еще есть.

    But there is a VTsIOM forecast – United Russia has 41-44%. Use it if you consider the VTsIOM data to be reliable

  • @Anatoly Karlin
    @Denver

    Because my goal here is to accurately observe reality, not provide feed for Western Russophiles or any other kind of NPC. If you dislike that, you should probably not read my blog.

    A quick glance shows that VCIOM was giving UR 26-29% in the month before the elections: https://wciom.ru/ratings/reiting-politicheskikh-partii/

    Adjusting for non-participants/don't knows, that's around mid-30%s.

    Percentage amongst those who would "definitely come"? 35.3% https://wciom.ru/analytical-reviews/analiticheskii-obzor/rezultaty-vyborov-v-gosdumu-2021-prognoz-vciom

    Yes, people who take an interest in and study electoral fraud in Russia will overwhelmingly be pro-Western liberals. And Western media will likewise be interested in propping them. That is neither new or surprising, but nor is it a legitimate counter-argument.

    Replies: @melanf, @Beckow

    A quick glance shows that VCIOM was giving UR 26-29% in the month before the elections: https://wciom.ru/ratings/reiting-politicheskikh-partii/

    Adjusting for non-participants/don’t knows, that’s around mid-30%s.

    Percentage amongst those who would “definitely come”? 35.2% https://wciom.ru/analytical-reviews/analiticheskii-obzor/rezultaty-vyborov-v-gosdumu-2021-prognoz-vciom

    Straight from the link you gave

    “На основании данных опроса аналитики ВЦИОМ подготовили прогноз результатов выборов. Согласно прогнозу, в Думу пройдут пять партий:

    «Единая Россия» (42%), возможный диапазон между 41-44%;
    КПРФ (19%), возможный диапазон между 18-22%;
    ЛДПР (11%), возможный диапазон между 10-13%;
    «Справедливая Россия — Патриоты — За правду» (8%), возможный диапазон 7-9%;
    «Новые люди» (5%), возможный диапазон 4-6%.”

    That is, the forecast is: “United Russia” (42%), the possible range is between 41-44%;
    Communist Party of the Russian Federation (19%), possible range between 18-22%;
    LDPR (11%), possible range between 10-13%;
    “Fair Russia-Patriots-For the truth” (8%), possible range 7-9%;
    “New people” (5%), possible range 4-6%

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @melanf


    «Единая Россия» (42%), возможный диапазон между 41-44%;
     
    Yes, forecast higher than percentage of "active voters" who intend to vote for UR (35%) according to their own polls, because they adjust up for fraud, though that's left politely unsaid.

    And even so, they're way off anyway, with UR getting 49.8%.

    I don't blame them, it's a fine line they have to toe as a fully state-owned enterprise between maintaining a reputation as an independent pollster without too openly embarrassing the political authorities.

    “Exit poll будут, если будет заказчик, это очень дорогое удовольствие. За свой счет его проводить не можем”, – пояснил Федоров.
     
    Just a major national election that happens twice a decade, no biggie, certainly not something worth spending any time or energy on at all. /s

    Replies: @melanf

  • As usual, “real result” of United Russia would have been around 35% instead of 50% (and a simple majority instead of a Constitutional majority)

    According to the results of exit polls, United Russia is gaining 42-47% of the votes. Were the exit polls (conducted by different organizations) also falsified?
    https://meduza.io/news/2021/09/19/exit-poll-edinaya-rossiya-nabiraet-45-2-golosov-na-vyborah-v-gosdumu-u-kommunistov-21

    Shpilkin has a very advanced method – he draws a graph of voter turnout depending on the time, then (meditating on this graph) falls into a trance, and in a trance state announces the numbers-exactly the numbers that the customer who finances Shpilkin needs

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @melanf

    I had a look into that exit poll.

    INSOMAR is an organization I have never heard of (though Google informs me that they have a rating of 2.3/5, with people complaining about spam calls).

    Tellingly, VCIOM either did not do exit polls, or didn't publish them. Presumably because as usual they were lower than the official results, perhaps even more markedly so than in previous elections, but inventing numbers wouldn't do either, as they actually have something of a reputation to protect.

    Replies: @melanf, @kzn

  • @utu
    @melanf

    Films are not for people who read books. That Rebecca Ferguson I have never heard of is much more sexy with much more sex appeal in the 2nd pict were according to you she is like a church mouse. You would be surprised how passionate and sexually uninhibited the church mice in the real world can be. Always go for mousy librarian or lab assistant. There is something in the air in libraries. Must be the old paper or glue in book.

    Replies: @melanf, @Almost Missouri

    You would be surprised how passionate and sexually uninhibited the church mice in the real world can be

    Well I am glad that you have such a great practical knowledge in this field

  • As usual, “real result” of United Russia would have been around 35%

    Shpilkin is a patent crook, and his “method” is a patent scam, at the level of astrology or clairvoyance (although outwardly covered by mathematics). It is sad that you refer to such prostitutes

    Here is an analysis of the Shpilkin “method”, nothing has changed since then
    https://wiz-aut.livejournal.com/5934.html

    • Agree: kzn
  • The new film adaptation of “Dune” – my impressions are mixed.
    The atmosphere is well conveyed, the music is excellent, the views of the planets are excellent, the cast as a whole is very accurately selected. The film follows the book with minimal deviations. In fact, the film is a classic symphony (music plays a major role in the film), where the music is illustrated by a video sequence. In this respect, the film is brilliant and full of tragic beauty

    The technique is well done, the scenes with graders, ornithopters, lighters are shot very effectively

    Very good Timothy Chalamet as Paul Atreides
    But! If you watch the movie without reading the book, the world invented by Herbert will be undiscovered. According to Herbert, once humanity developed using computers, but then smart computers got too smart, machines rebelled against mankind, and were destroyed during the all-galactic war. Now computers (and a number of other technologies) under the strictest ban, but instead of them, special people (mentats, navigators, Gesserits) are used who, with the help of drug spice, can process huge volumes of information and, due to this, look into the future. And spice cannot be synthesized – it can only be extracted in the deserts of the planet Dune. Without spice, flights between the stars will become impossible (the routes are laid by navigators who are under the constant influence of spice) – accordingly, without spice, the entire civilization will collapse.

    This moment in the film is blurred. A person who has not read the book at all will have the impression that spice is just some kind of drug playing an auxiliary role, and the whole struggle is for money from the drug trade. Mentats are extremely disappointing – ordinary intelligence officers are shown, their diabolical abilities are not revealed in any way. The Bene Gesserit, on the other hand, are shown quite well.
    Harkonens good – the baron turned out to be a smart and scary creatureThe key point of Herbert’s fantasy is that force fields made soldiers invulnerable to firearms and lasers, and this is why there was a return to cold weapons and hand-to-hand combat. The exception is the desert Dunes – there, because of the worms (which feel the protective fields, and attack them), you can not use these very fields, so the local natives are armed with firearms (while civilized people have long switched to swords).

    Here the military actions are the weakest moment of the film. In the film, the logic is lost – first they show how the fleeing soldiers are killed with missiles from the air, and then how they are cut down with the attackers with swords. Well, it’s absurd after all – why do you need to engage in hand-to-hand combat, if you can kill the enemy with missiles? Then, in the hands of the Fremen, a completely modern-looking firearm appears. In Herbert’s book, this was logically justified. In the film, it looks completely absurd.According to the mind, it was necessary to show the Atreides warriors walking unharmed through the explosions, since when the missiles hit directly into groups of fighters, the flashing blue cocoons of force fields protect the soldiers from the shock wave and shrapnel. Then it would be clear why such a strange situation is when the warriors of the interstellar empire are armed with swords

    Well, the sword fights themselves are not impressive – there is no drive necessary for film performances. This applies both to mass scenes and to the combat exploits of individual heroes.

    The Sardukars are completely disappointing – in the film they are ordinary rather sluggish soldiers.Based on the film, it is completely unclear what their infernal reputation is based on.
    In the book (at the end of the first part) Paul Atreides sees the future under the influence of spice, but in the film this prophetic vision occurs in small pieces throughout the film, and this violates the logic of the work.

    The riddle: why was it necessary to take the beautiful Rebecca Ferguson,
    to play the role of a beautiful witch seductress Jessica, and then make a colorless church mouse with her hair tied up in a bun out of the heroine.
    I wasn’t impressed with Duncan Idaho. Momoa without a beard and mustache (and with muscles hidden by armor) does not give the impression of a great warrior at allThis could have been redeemed by powerful combat scenes, but here, alas, the creators of the film failed-Idaho’s fight with the Sardukars does not catch at all.

    Gurney Helleck is quite good, although he does not quite match the image from the book

    Chani is a shame: the heroine of the book, who has the “face of an elf”, will be replaced by an plain girl with a wide face and a duck nose. Well, how can the Messiah be charmed by such ordinary girl?Well, if she took charisma, because she plays the same way she looks.

    In general, if you have read the book, then it is definitely worth watching the film adaptation. But if you haven’t read Frank Herbert’s novel, it’s better to start with it

    • Thanks: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @utu
    @melanf

    Films are not for people who read books. That Rebecca Ferguson I have never heard of is much more sexy with much more sex appeal in the 2nd pict were according to you she is like a church mouse. You would be surprised how passionate and sexually uninhibited the church mice in the real world can be. Always go for mousy librarian or lab assistant. There is something in the air in libraries. Must be the old paper or glue in book.

    Replies: @melanf, @Almost Missouri

    , @AP
    @melanf

    https://twitter.com/pjmorell/status/1441462739361226754?s=21

    , @Max Payne
    @melanf

    Can't use "Thanks" because cookies but Karlins Substack rescued this post.

    Also thanks.

  • For the past two days I have been awoken by loudspeakers in my neighborhood playing Soviet-themed music telling me to go vote in the elections in a radio announcer type voice. Here are the wealth of choices I have on offer in my district: Elena Gulnicheva, commie QT endorsed by Navalny's "Smart Vote". Incidentally, it...
  • @AP
    @melanf


    “And how many of those holidays fell during the non-summer months it times after the harvest, when work was less necessary?”

    Church holidays more or less evenly occurred throughout the year. Since in Russia the time suitable for agricultural works much shorter than in Europe, the guilt of the Byzantine Church is even heavier
     
    If the Church holidays are evenly distributed than it makes no difference if the growing season is short because under an even distribution most of the holidays will fall outside the short growing season.

    Replies: @melanf

    If the Church holidays are evenly distributed than it makes no difference if the growing season is short because under an even distribution most of the holidays will fall outside the short growing season.

    And for this reason in short growing season German colonists had four times fewer holidays than Orthodox Russian peasants. In addition, the Orthodox peasant community strictly ensured that no one worked on these holidays, but everyone was drunk. The results of such “Orthodox spirituality” are known – the Russian Orthodox peasant was a beggar, a loafer and an alcoholic.

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    Russian Orthodox peasant was a beggar, a loafer and an alcoholic
     
    An accurate description of post-Orthodox Soviet person. Except after Stolypin’s reforms Russian peasants could feed themselves and the world. Under Soviets, mass starvation.
  • @AP
    @melanf

    The musical tradition grew out of Church music and most Russian composers made Church music. Even the ones who may have resented the Church were the products of a culture that was to a large degree created and shaped by it. They were like ungrateful rebellious children, angry at their parents to whom they owed their talents and knowledge. Generally speaking, most of what we know as art and culture was produced under the patronage of the reactionary European aristocracies, who were deeply Christian.

    The Church-less Russia of the Soviets killed Russia’s Silver Age and created little but the 90s debauchery and it’s philistinism.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @melanf, @Dmitry, @inertial

    The musical tradition grew out of Church music

    In Russia, no. Music (as art in general) was borrowed from Western Europe as a result of” Westernization ” in the 18th century. Therefore, where this music has roots in the church tradition, it is the church tradition of Western Christianity

    The Church-less Russia of the Soviets killed Russia’s Silver Age

    Ahh, that’s how it is. And in those countries where there were no Soviets, there are still composers of the level of Verdi and Saint-Saens?

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    The musical tradition grew out of Church music

    In Russia, no. Music (as art in general) was borrowed from Western Europe as a result of” Westernization ” in the 18th century.
     
    Yes, it was indeed influenced by the West. Its creators were devoutly religious people such as the Ukrainian Diletsky who composed liturgies:

    https://www.belcanto.ru/diletsky.html

    The Church-less Russia of the Soviets killed Russia’s Silver Age

    Ahh, that’s how it is. And in those countries where there were no Soviets, there are still composers of the level of Verdi and Saint-Saens?
     
    So because X killed someone in California, Y couldn't have killed someone in New York?

    When Bolsheviks ruined Russia it had become the equal of any other country as a producer of high culture in Europe. This came to an abrupt halt.
  • @AP
    @melanf

    The Russian classical tradition began with Little Russian (Ukrainian) composers making church music. Berezovsky’s liturgy is beautiful. Almost all Russian composers, such as Tchaikovsky, made music for the Church:

    https://youtu.be/DmM4i7rj_3g

    Replies: @melanf

    Almost all Russian composers, such as Tchaikovsky, made music for the Church

    Of course, many (but not all!) composers created church music, but for the most part it was work for the sake of money, and the results were not of interest (which is understandable – Orthodox music is strictly “a la capella” and therefore boring). The same Tchaikovsky was very skeptical about the church and Christianity in general, and he is appreciated all over the world not for religious music (which Tchaikovsky did not like) but for completely different works

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    The musical tradition grew out of Church music and most Russian composers made Church music. Even the ones who may have resented the Church were the products of a culture that was to a large degree created and shaped by it. They were like ungrateful rebellious children, angry at their parents to whom they owed their talents and knowledge. Generally speaking, most of what we know as art and culture was produced under the patronage of the reactionary European aristocracies, who were deeply Christian.

    The Church-less Russia of the Soviets killed Russia’s Silver Age and created little but the 90s debauchery and it’s philistinism.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @melanf, @Dmitry, @inertial

    , @inertial
    @melanf

    Tchaikovsky's religious music is out of this world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPlK5HwFxcw

    Replies: @sher singh

  • @AP
    @melanf

    And how many of those holidays fell during the non-summer months it times after the harvest, when work was less necessary? And despite that famines ceased and output and wealth grew as agriculture improved under late Tsarism.

    You had defended the collectivization and brushed off the starvation of millions of peasants because according to you they were useless drunkards anyways. The Bolsheviks forced the peasants to work more, and kept the product for themselves, starving the peasants. Peasants died by the millions, and strong demographic growth plummeted. Russia was cut off at the knees, its fall was assured. The capital accrued under the Tsars was enough to (barely) defeat Germany (with huge losses, further squandering it) but Russia was on its way to the rusted rotten shell of the 90s. Congratulations.

    Replies: @melanf

    And how many of those holidays fell during the non-summer months it times after the harvest, when work was less necessary?

    Church holidays more or less evenly occurred throughout the year. Since in Russia the time suitable for agricultural works much shorter than in Europe, the guilt of the Byzantine Church is even heavier. In a short time when it was necessary to work, the churchmen forbade labor and accustomed the peasants to idleness and alcoholism.

    It was well known that these idiotic holidays were one of the main obstacles to the development of the country. State Secretary Polovtsev for example said to Alexander II
    “If you, Your Majesty, destroy the estates, communal land ownership and half of the holidays during your reign, you will leave behind a completely different Russia”

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    “And how many of those holidays fell during the non-summer months it times after the harvest, when work was less necessary?”

    Church holidays more or less evenly occurred throughout the year. Since in Russia the time suitable for agricultural works much shorter than in Europe, the guilt of the Byzantine Church is even heavier
     
    If the Church holidays are evenly distributed than it makes no difference if the growing season is short because under an even distribution most of the holidays will fall outside the short growing season.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @HenryBaker
    @Yellowface Anon

    Dumb question, but is 51% voter turnout normal in Russia? Always funny how people fixate on the 'political' but never notice the 'apolitical'. 50% of Russians being completely apathethic seems to be most important result of all.

    Replies: @melanf, @schnellandine

    Dumb question, but is 51% voter turnout normal in Russia?

    Yes

  • @Seraphim
    @AP

    All Russian composers composed music for Church services. Dostoevski's critics had to admit that his Weltanshauung was the ''Official Nationality'': Pravoslávie, samoderzhávie, naródnost'. What about Gogol? True, Tolstoy is the exception, that's why is he so beloved by the Bolsheviks. His hatred of the Church led him to insanity.
    But to accuse the Church that it imposed free days out of a grudging work instead of enforcing the desire of the slave masters to force people work 24/7/365 borders on idiocy, nay, it is idiotical.

    Replies: @melanf, @AP, @AP

    All Russian composers composed music for Church services

    This statement is just nonsense

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    The Russian classical tradition began with Little Russian (Ukrainian) composers making church music. Berezovsky’s liturgy is beautiful. Almost all Russian composers, such as Tchaikovsky, made music for the Church:

    https://youtu.be/DmM4i7rj_3g

    Replies: @melanf

  • @Art Deco
    @melanf

    The church forbade peasants to work almost most of the year (religious holidays),

    You've not looked at a liturgical calendar in a while.

    Replies: @melanf

    You’ve not looked at a liturgical calendar in a while.

    https://culturolog.ru/content/view/3779/29/
    Orthodox Russian peasants actually had 71 holidays, without Sundays, much more than, for example, in the Baltic provinces, Catholics — 43, Baltic Protestants and German colonists-18, in Germany-13, in most Catholic countries — 35 (in some — in Spain and Italy — about 48), in China, Japan and other countries of East and South Asia — 35. Moreover, their number has increased in the post-reform period. Secondly, the abundance of holidays caused significant harm to the peasant economy, as it took a lot of time and money. If Orthodox Russian peasants had the same number of holidays and Sundays as Western ones, this would give production an additional 3 billion man-days a year and increase the balance of working time by almost 20%, thanks to which the peasants would receive additional income in the amount of 1870 million rubles

    • Replies: @iffen
    @melanf

    No wonder the Bolsheviks started killing them off.

    , @AP
    @melanf

    And how many of those holidays fell during the non-summer months it times after the harvest, when work was less necessary? And despite that famines ceased and output and wealth grew as agriculture improved under late Tsarism.

    You had defended the collectivization and brushed off the starvation of millions of peasants because according to you they were useless drunkards anyways. The Bolsheviks forced the peasants to work more, and kept the product for themselves, starving the peasants. Peasants died by the millions, and strong demographic growth plummeted. Russia was cut off at the knees, its fall was assured. The capital accrued under the Tsars was enough to (barely) defeat Germany (with huge losses, further squandering it) but Russia was on its way to the rusted rotten shell of the 90s. Congratulations.

    Replies: @melanf

    , @Art Deco
    @melanf

    His accounting is quite dubious, as it doesn't distinguish holidays from mandated observances. That aside, there are over 300 weekdays a year, so your comment makes no sense even were his accounting correct.

  • @AP
    @melanf


    It can be said with equal success that Russia would not have been Russia without the Bolshevik revolution
     
    And what kind of Russia did the Bolsheviks produce? One that killed millions of its own people and enabled the Germans to kill many millions more, epic levels of abortion, and that ended under its Communist masters with the 90s debauchery. A shambling stumbling Frankenstein’s monster made from the corpse of murdered Russia by its murderers, which inevitably fell and rotted. This was Russia with Orthodoxy removed from it.

    It is now recovering, arm in arm with Orthodoxy.

    What kind of Russia did Orthodoxy help produce? A sublime Russia of Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy and Tchaikovsky, organic growth and improvement in all spheres, booming population, etc.

    Replies: @melanf, @Seraphim

    nd what kind of Russia did the Bolsheviks produce? One that killed millions

    Well, the Byzantine religion is the main culprit of the revolution. The church forbade peasants to work almost most of the year (religious holidays), and was the main obstacle to education. Plus, the insane approval of an unlimited birth rate, as well as the country’s involvement in wars in the interests of this sect.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @melanf

    The church forbade peasants to work almost most of the year (religious holidays),

    You've not looked at a liturgical calendar in a while.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @Seraphim
    @melanf

    Russia wouldn't be Russia without the Orthodox Church. As Dostoevski put it, Russia without Christianity is 'ethnographic material', and not of the best quality. Your 'ethnographic material' killed 300,000 priests because it 'disliked' them for telling them not to be drunk out of their minds.

    Replies: @melanf

    Russia wouldn’t be Russia without the Orthodox Church.

    It can be said with equal success that Russia would not have been Russia without the Bolshevik revolution. Because without the revolution it would be a different Russia – not the same Russia as we know it in the current reality

    If religion were not Orthodoxy but Catholicism – what would have happened then? It is possible that Russia could not defend its independence from its toothy western neighbors. But if Russia could sew itself up, then development would go much faster, since the Orthodox Church at all times was a millstone on the neck of Russia

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    It can be said with equal success that Russia would not have been Russia without the Bolshevik revolution
     
    And what kind of Russia did the Bolsheviks produce? One that killed millions of its own people and enabled the Germans to kill many millions more, epic levels of abortion, and that ended under its Communist masters with the 90s debauchery. A shambling stumbling Frankenstein’s monster made from the corpse of murdered Russia by its murderers, which inevitably fell and rotted. This was Russia with Orthodoxy removed from it.

    It is now recovering, arm in arm with Orthodoxy.

    What kind of Russia did Orthodoxy help produce? A sublime Russia of Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy and Tchaikovsky, organic growth and improvement in all spheres, booming population, etc.

    Replies: @melanf, @Seraphim

  • @Seraphim
    @Mikhail

    I find disgusting the attacks against the Orthodox Church wherever they come from, Tennessee, Ukraine or Russia (even from Tolstoy, of course).

    Replies: @AnonfromTN, @melanf

    I find disgusting the attacks against the Orthodox Church wherever they come from, Tennessee, Ukraine or Russia

    I can’t say anything about Tennessee, but dislike of the Orthodox Church in Russia is fully justified. The Orthodox Church has tried for centuries to use Russia for its own purposes, giving nothing in return

    • Disagree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @melanf


    I can’t say anything about Tennessee, but dislike of the Orthodox Church in Russia is fully justified. The Orthodox Church has tried for centuries to use Russia for its own purposes, giving nothing in return
     
    Within reason, it has been observed that the ROC has historically been close to the Russian government. Often times, this observation has been done in a negative and hypocritical way.

    The most negative comments done against the ROC can for consistency be applied elsewhere. In this instance, I'm referring to the pro-RC types who rag on the ROC. They'd take offense to portraying the RC as a corrupt denomination with sexual perversions and working with Nazis.

    A good number of non-religious Russians look positively at the ROC, respecting its role and those who earnestly observe in that denomination.
    , @Seraphim
    @melanf

    Russia wouldn't be Russia without the Orthodox Church. As Dostoevski put it, Russia without Christianity is 'ethnographic material', and not of the best quality. Your 'ethnographic material' killed 300,000 priests because it 'disliked' them for telling them not to be drunk out of their minds.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @JLK
    @JLK

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/09/20/russian-opposition-politician-loses-vote-marred-by-doppelgangers-a75092


    Russian Opposition Politician Loses Vote Marred by Doppelgangers

    Preliminary results Monday showed that Vishnevsky, who is from the liberal Yabloko party, was defeated by Sergei Solovyov from the ruling United Russia party.

    Vishnevsky, 65, told the news website Znak.com that he was prevented earlier Monday from filing a formal complaint against the vote.

    He said five men snatched copies of the complaints and questioned him but did not cause him any harm.
     
    https://static.themoscowtimes.com/image/article_1360/c6/000_9MC28G-2.jpg

    Replies: @melanf

    This Boris Vishnevsky could not lose the election because of duplicate candidates. This story became so famous that it could only bring Vishnevsky additional voices. That is, he lost the election for other reasons

  • @Yevardian
    @melanf

    Well, admittedly Tolstoy has his flaws (his digressions on 'historical theory' greatly marred War & Peace, especially in that stupid appendix of an 'ending', otherwise I still think it's a great book), but Tolstoy the preacher and Tolstoy the writer are not the same thing.
    And whilst Tolstoy did eventually become some kind of religious nut after some kind of mental breakdown after Anna Karenina, I don't think it's fair to label him a 'pharisee', as unlike most cult leaders, he did at least practice what he preached.
    All kinds of things can be fairly pointed at Tolstoy, but I don't think anyone can fairly label him a hypocrite or insincere.


    The lot of buffoons is to entertain people, and when they try to declare themselves prophets, they should be whipped but not proclaimed as geniuses.
     
    Generally I'd find Dostoevsky more guilty of the sort of thing you're talking about, which is especially obvious when reading his journalism, which later too often descended to the level of jingoistic doggerel.

    Anyway, I think Chekhov remains the greatest Russian writer, and it seems in this case, Russian popular taste is for once in agreement.

    Replies: @melanf, @Dmitry, @AnonfromTN

    but Tolstoy the preacher and Tolstoy the writer are not the same thing.

    His religious and pseudo-religious ideas are embedded in his books (including his early books)

    I don’t think it’s fair to label him a ‘pharisee’,

    A man who taught that medicine and doctors are harmful because they distract people from God (i.e. from the teachings of Leo Tolstoy) at the end of his life decided to leave home to imitate Christ – well, like Francis of Assisi. He took a retinue with him from home including a personal doctor

    Anyway, I think Chekhov remains the greatest Russian writer

    I would say that the greatest Russian writers (not poets!) These are Nikolai Gogol, Leonid Solovyov and Alexey Pekhov. However, we all live in our own separate universes, each of which has its own hierarchy of art

  • @JLK
    I read a story in the Moscow Times about a ploy of putting two look-alike candidates on the ballot with the same name as the opposition candidate to confuse voters and split the vote.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/09/17/in-russias-parliamentary-vote-spoiler-parties-and-dirty-tricks-abound-a75071

    "One of the most high-profile cases appeared in St. Petersburg, where Boris Vishnevsky, a veteran opposition member of the city council, found himself opposed by two other candidates with the same name.

    It later emerged that the two additional Boris Vishnevskys — who are only distinguishable from the original by their patronymics — had grown beards and simulated the liberal lawmaker’s balding pate in the candidate portraits that are printed on ballot papers, apparently to confuse voters."

    Seriously, did this really happen?

    Replies: @melanf, @JLK

    Seriously, did this really happen?

    However, this Vishnevsky himself has used dirty tricks in the past (in particular, when he was a troubadour of Chechen terrorists), so the trick is quite legitimate

  • @Yevardian
    @melanf

    What do you have against Lev?

    Replies: @melanf

    What do you have against Lev?

    My school years, which were spoiled by the need to read the slop that this author wrote.

    Well also the fact that this man was a disgusting Pharisee pretending to be a prophet. The lot of buffoons is to entertain people, and when they try to declare themselves prophets, they should be whipped but not proclaimed as geniuses

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    @melanf

    Well, admittedly Tolstoy has his flaws (his digressions on 'historical theory' greatly marred War & Peace, especially in that stupid appendix of an 'ending', otherwise I still think it's a great book), but Tolstoy the preacher and Tolstoy the writer are not the same thing.
    And whilst Tolstoy did eventually become some kind of religious nut after some kind of mental breakdown after Anna Karenina, I don't think it's fair to label him a 'pharisee', as unlike most cult leaders, he did at least practice what he preached.
    All kinds of things can be fairly pointed at Tolstoy, but I don't think anyone can fairly label him a hypocrite or insincere.


    The lot of buffoons is to entertain people, and when they try to declare themselves prophets, they should be whipped but not proclaimed as geniuses.
     
    Generally I'd find Dostoevsky more guilty of the sort of thing you're talking about, which is especially obvious when reading his journalism, which later too often descended to the level of jingoistic doggerel.

    Anyway, I think Chekhov remains the greatest Russian writer, and it seems in this case, Russian popular taste is for once in agreement.

    Replies: @melanf, @Dmitry, @AnonfromTN

  • @Mikhail
    @melanf

    Was referring to the ROC.

    Replies: @melanf

    The Russian Orthodox Church dreams of returning to the Middle Ages, and the author of shit novels Lev Tolstoy dreamed of returning to the Neolithic. It is difficult to say which of them is more disgusting and harmful.

    • Replies: @AnonfromTN
    @melanf


    It is difficult to say which of them is more disgusting and harmful.
     
    Positive side: Lev Tolstoy could write well; ROC never did anything well. Negative side: Tolstoy fooled just a handful of people; ROC fooled and keeps fooling millions. In my book, Tolstoy wins hands down, ROC is a lot more disgusting.
    , @Art Deco
    @melanf

    The Russian Orthodox Church dreams of returning to the Middle Ages,

    Highly unlikely. I'll wager they do dream of returning to a cultural situation where there are ample vocations, ample religious instruction, ample religious conscience, and where people's mundane lives are ordered to religious practice.

    Replies: @Mikhail, @AnonfromTN

    , @Seraphim
    @melanf

    melanf wins hands down.

    Replies: @Mikhail

  • @Mikhail
    @melanf


    Without any doubt. The cathedral has never belonged to church parasites, and it should not belong to them.
     
    Isn't that how Leo Tolstoy felt?

    Replies: @melanf

    Isn’t that how Leo Tolstoy felt?

    Hardly. Leo Tolstoy was against civilization in general, and in particular against cities with museums

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @melanf

    Was referring to the ROC.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @Mikhail
    @melanf

    Do any or all of Leo's descendants share all of his views? On your other point:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/24/a-dispute-over-st-petersburgs-grand-orthodox-cathedral-stirs-up-russias-anti-semitic-conspiracies/

    A counter-point made on the claim that Peter T made an anti-Jewish comment.

    Is it better to maintain the Soviet making of that church into a museum? ROC-MP has come a long way on account of the greater freedoms since the Soviet demise. In order to exist, it had to be compromising during the Soviet period.

    Replies: @melanf

    claim that Peter T made an anti-Jewish comment.

    I don’t care about the anti – Semitic statements of this idiot, but flirting with greedy Byzantine parasites is a lifelong stigma.

    Is it better to maintain the Soviet making of that church into a museum?

    Without any doubt. The cathedral has never belonged to church parasites, and it should not belong to them.

    • Troll: Seraphim
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @melanf


    Without any doubt. The cathedral has never belonged to church parasites, and it should not belong to them.
     
    Isn't that how Leo Tolstoy felt?

    Replies: @melanf

  • An amazing company you have is participating in the elections, where everyone is disgusting. Peter Tolstoy is disgusting because he is a descendant of the famous faggot Leo Tolstoy, but he is doubly disgusting because he advocated the transfer of St. Isaac’s Cathedral to parasites from the Byzantine sect ROC

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @melanf

    Do any or all of Leo's descendants share all of his views? On your other point:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/24/a-dispute-over-st-petersburgs-grand-orthodox-cathedral-stirs-up-russias-anti-semitic-conspiracies/

    A counter-point made on the claim that Peter T made an anti-Jewish comment.

    Is it better to maintain the Soviet making of that church into a museum? ROC-MP has come a long way on account of the greater freedoms since the Soviet demise. In order to exist, it had to be compromising during the Soviet period.

    Replies: @melanf

    , @kzn
    @melanf

    Gerard here - Having church ownership, conducting services but still having churches open to tourism and earning plenty of money....... is a practise that all the great cathedrals around the world have been doing. SP should be no different. I couldn't believe the reaction against the intended transfer

    , @Yevardian
    @melanf

    What do you have against Lev?

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf


    "And here, students at the school speak very good Ukrainian"

    For the delegation that came to the school (the delegation from the Ukraine most likely)
     
    So? Were they taught the Ukrainian language in this school or were they not?


    But if we look at the information about this school, then the language in which children are taught is Russian.
     
    It's information from a Russian-language website about various schools.

    Russian language teaching is discussed in the reviews of parents (link above) about this school (which are all in Russian)
     
    6 reviews, on a Russian language website. One of them says the quality of Russian language instruction at this school is "trash."

    Videos that are made not for Ukrainian delegations, but for themselves – all in Russian
     
    I found two videos in Russian, one in Ukrainian (why is it worse if it is some official video?), one of Ukrainian folk dancing. So clearly they are taught both the Russian and Ukrainian languages, along with some Ukrainian folklore and Ukrainian history. So you were wrong when you claimed that this was not a Ukrainian school.

    Again, not a single school like this is allowed in Moscow, with its 150,000 Ukrainians. There are only 11,000 Ukrainians in Astana, and they have this school. This is because Ukrainian culture is suppressed in Moscow, but not in Kazakhstan.

    Well, is the question of Ukrainian education in Moscow closed
     
    Because you were wrong about the Ukrainian school in Kazakhstan? What does that have to do with Moscow? Is there a school in Moscow that teaches the Russian and Ukrainian languages along with Ukrainian folklore and history? Yes or no?

    Replies: @melanf

    Were they taught the Ukrainian language in this school or were they not?

    Well, in this style, the Ukrainian language is studied in schools in Moscow and St. Petersburg (and in St. Petersburg in the state budget school 479). Then what are your peretensions?

    I found two videos in Russian, one in Ukrainian

    We are looking for a video about a “Ukrainian” school in Kazakhstan in a search engine (in Ukrainian ” гімназія № 47 Астана”
    ), and we find a video in Russian. There are a lot of such videos (examples below), but there are none in Ukrainian (the meeting of the official delegation is a different case).

    Can you explain why in the” Ukrainian ” school (in Kazakhstan) children congratulate their parents in Russian? Maybe because in this school, only a grant from Kiev is “Ukrainian”?

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    "Were they taught the Ukrainian language in this school or were they not?"

    Well, in this style, the Ukrainian language is studied in schools in Moscow
     
    Which ones in Moscow?

    and St. Petersburg (and in St. Petersburg in the state budget school 479). Then what are your peretensions?
     
    Thank you for drawing our attention to Saint Petersburg.

    It is not a Ukrainian school, but a school of Slavic culture. They had an occasional Ukrainian class, an occasional Polish and Bulgarian class. In recent years they have cancelled the Ukrainian class.

    About this school:

    https://spb-spravka.com/shkoly/kirovskiy-rayon/shkola-no-479

    Школа была основана в 1961 году. С 1995 года именуется школой славянских культур. Режим учебной недели - пятидневный. Иностранный язык - английский. Учащимся начальной школы предлагается возможность бесплатно посещать бассейн.

    There are over 70,000 Ukrainians in Saint Petersburg and not a single Ukrainian school there.
    There are only 11,000 Ukrainians in Astana and there is a Ukrainian school there.

    BTW, according to Ukrainians, the Ukrainian community of Saint Petersburg tried to organize a Ukrainian school in that city. It didn't end well:

    "... even before the war in Donbass, a group of parents in St. Petersburg tried to initiate the opening of a Ukrainian school." However, this did not happen, because "FSB officers came to them, held" educational "talks and hinted at possible problems."

    So perhaps Mr. Hack wasn't completely wrong.

    Russians of course have the right to deny the 70,000 Ukrainians in Saint Petersburg the right to even one Ukrainian school. Just as Ukrainians have the right to deny the 70,000 Russians in Lviv from having even one Russian school.

    I ask again. There are 1.5 million ethnic Ukrainian residents of Russia. There are large numbers in certain cities (70,000 in Saint Petersburg, 150,000 in Moscow).

    Is there a single school where they have Ukrainian classes through all grades, do they also teach Ukrainian history and folklore?

    Any evidence from those schools in Russia such as this, from the Ukrainian school in Kazakhstan?

    https://www.facebook.com/UCIC.Astana/videos/864828643697950/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSnlVAEE8XQ

    Moreover, you keep ignoring the fact that Russia also prevents a single Greek Catholic Church or a single Ukrainian Orthodox Church on Russian territory. There are 9 Ukrainian Greek Catholic Churches even in Kazakhstan. Of course it is acceptable for Russia not to want churches beholden to Kiev or Rome on its territory. Just as it is normal for Ukrainians not to allow churches beholden to Moscow on their territory. But Ukraine is much more tolerant than Moscow, and does allow it.

    A funny consequence of this is that when Ukraine closes all the Russian schools, Russia can't reciprocate because it doesn't allow Ukrainian schools to operate in Russia in the first place.

    Can you explain why in the” Ukrainian ” school (in Kazakhstan) children congratulate their parents in Russian?
     
    Can you explain why you think this is in any way relevant as to whether the school is a Ukrainian school or not? Did you know that most of the kids going to Ukrainian schools in Kiev speak Russian with their parents? Perhaps by your logic, therefore, all those schools are Russian schools and Ukraine is still full of Russian schools after all, so Russian nationalists have nothing to complain about?

    Replies: @Che Guava

  • Another pilgrimage to the Fortress Monastery. *** * AOMI. Robin Hanson: The Insular Fertile Future. Reproductively successful cultures are insular from the global culture. * Scott Alexander: Book Review: Modi - A Political Biography * AFGHANISTAN. Apparently internal frictions amongst the Taliban, with Pakistani-backed hardliners winning out and filling the Cabinet exclusively with Taliban (in...
  • • Replies: @sudden death
    @melanf

    Not a single fly amanita seen in there, very untrendy ;)

  • Who has seen the new Dune movie? I have mixed impressions

  • @Mr. Hack
    @melanf

    From their own site it appears that both languages are taught. I wonder when the national language of Kazakhstan is taught? How do you know that the school is subsidized from Kyiv?

    Replies: @melanf

    From their own site it appears that both languages are taught

    “Язык обучения русский” that is, they teach in Russian (which is the native language of Ukrainians in Kazakhstan). Ukrainian goes additionally as a foreign language (most likely for the sake of subsidies from Kiev or Ottawa), but judging by the deaf silence of Yandex and Google on this topic, this training is a fiction.

    Well, what is the difference with Moscow? The Ukrainian school in Moscow has at least a website in Ukrainian
    http://ukrcentr.ru/RU/category/novini/ukra%D1%97nska-nedilna-shkola-imeni-pavla-popovicha/

    There is also a school 479 in St. Petersburg where they teach Ukrainian (as a foreign language)

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @melanf

    I still think that both Ukrainian and Russian languages are used in school #47. As AP has already pointed out in comment #528, the level of Ukrainian language proficiency is quite good, most definitely beyond any sort of "kitchen talk" ability:

    https://www.facebook.com/UCIC.Astana/videos/864828643697950/?t=9

    It wouldn't surprise me though if the administrators of the school talked mostly in Russian amongst themselves, based on the information provided by the Wikipedia entry I posted in my comment #523.

  • @AP
    @melanf


    Email address of this school [email protected] (have you considered the domain?), in the video, graduates of this school sing in Russian https://ok.ru/video/1582849133282.
     
    And here, students at the school speak very good Ukrainian:

    https://www.facebook.com/UCIC.Astana/videos/864828643697950/

    And here, they have Ukrainian dances:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSnlVAEE8XQ

    But they also have Russian stuff:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fu6QN7PuIY

    ::::::::::::::::

    But you see, Moscow does not allow even such a school, in both languages.

    Replies: @melanf

    And here, students at the school speak very good Ukrainian

    For the delegation that came to the school (the delegation from the Ukraine most likely)

    But if we look at the information about this school, then the language in which children are taught is Russian.
    https://schoolotzyv.ru/schools/15-kazahstan/254-astana/118750-shkola-gimnaziya-47

    Russian language teaching is discussed in the reviews of parents (link above) about this school (which are all in Russian), but the Ukrainian language is not mentioned at all. Videos that are made not for Ukrainian delegations, but for themselves – all in Russian

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yeo-aBOtyA&t=11s&ab_channel=TheMolchanovfamily%2F%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8C%D1%8F%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%87%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%85.
    etc, etc

    That is, in the” Ukrainian ” school in Astana, the language (of local Ukrainians?) Russian, and Ukrainian is taught there as a foreign language (for the sake of subsidies from Kiev, most likely). Well, is the question of Ukrainian education in Moscow closed?

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @melanf

    From their own site it appears that both languages are taught. I wonder when the national language of Kazakhstan is taught? How do you know that the school is subsidized from Kyiv?

    Replies: @melanf

    , @AP
    @melanf


    "And here, students at the school speak very good Ukrainian"

    For the delegation that came to the school (the delegation from the Ukraine most likely)
     
    So? Were they taught the Ukrainian language in this school or were they not?


    But if we look at the information about this school, then the language in which children are taught is Russian.
     
    It's information from a Russian-language website about various schools.

    Russian language teaching is discussed in the reviews of parents (link above) about this school (which are all in Russian)
     
    6 reviews, on a Russian language website. One of them says the quality of Russian language instruction at this school is "trash."

    Videos that are made not for Ukrainian delegations, but for themselves – all in Russian
     
    I found two videos in Russian, one in Ukrainian (why is it worse if it is some official video?), one of Ukrainian folk dancing. So clearly they are taught both the Russian and Ukrainian languages, along with some Ukrainian folklore and Ukrainian history. So you were wrong when you claimed that this was not a Ukrainian school.

    Again, not a single school like this is allowed in Moscow, with its 150,000 Ukrainians. There are only 11,000 Ukrainians in Astana, and they have this school. This is because Ukrainian culture is suppressed in Moscow, but not in Kazakhstan.

    Well, is the question of Ukrainian education in Moscow closed
     
    Because you were wrong about the Ukrainian school in Kazakhstan? What does that have to do with Moscow? Is there a school in Moscow that teaches the Russian and Ukrainian languages along with Ukrainian folklore and history? Yes or no?

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf


    Well, great – can you show me the petition of 2000 residents of Moscow about the organization of a Ukrainian school
     
    Do I have access to government archives that have such a petition? The local Ukrainian organisation representing thousands of Ukrainians in Moscow asked for a school and was denied it. Just as requests for Ukrainian Greek Catholic and Orthodox churches are denied in Russia.

    You have petitions of Russians in Lviv wanting a Russian school for their kids?

    The version that “Ukrainians are afraid” is, to put it mildly, ridiculous
     
    I didn’t claim they are terrified; I don’t think are.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @melanf

    Do I have access to government archive…

    If there was a petition signed by several thousand residents of Moscow to create a Ukrainian school, and this petition was rejected by the authorities, then this fact would be used by Ukrainian propaganda. Well, since there is no mention of this event in the Ukrainian propaganda, it means that there was no such petition

    • Agree: Mikhail
  • @Mikhail
    @melanf

    No surprise.

    Replies: @melanf

    Out of interest, I gave a request to Yandex

    “Українська ШКОЛА-гімназія №47 в Астані” (Ukrainian gymnasium No. 47 in Astana – request in Ukrainian language)

    All the information found about the school turned out to be exclusively in Russian. In Google, absolutely the same thing.

    AP and Mr. Hack, can you explain this?

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    Seems to be that the Kazakh government only uses Russian and Kazakh languages in its websites. Why do you think this is meaningful?

    , @Mikhail
    @melanf

    So much for the earlier suggestion that the Kazakh government is favoring Ukrainian over Russian out of a shared anti-Russian sentiment with the svidos.

    It's very easy to distort on such matter. These guys are going to believe whatever they want to regardless of the actual reality.

    Circa 1990s, I recall anti-Serb propagandists claiming that Albanian language schools were shutdown in Kosovo. Shortly thereafter, a BBC segment noted separate Serb government affiliated Serb and Albanian language schools which included the teachers from both periodically communicating for the purpose of having uniform standards.

    Upon further review, I found out that Albanian alternate schools were set up by Albanian nationalists, who claimed that Kosovo's history wasn't being properly taught in the Serb government funded schools. I also sensed that some Albanians were pressured to join such schools.

  • @Mr. Hack
    @melanf

    Ukrainians in Moscow fear reprisals for standing up for any signs of promoting Ukrainian language preferences. Have you already forgotten AP's bringing this up in his comment #438? Then there's the nasty little affair of Muscovite authorities closing down the only Ukrainian library in all of Russia. I believe the authorities found one Banderite type comic book on shelf #37 covered with dust from inactive use.

    For some reason, the authorities in Kazakhstan feel more threatened by the presence of Russian cultural symbols there than Ukrainian ones:


    In an effort to differentiate the Ukrainian and Russian communities in Kazakhstan, the Kazakh government has actively supported Ukrainian cultural aspirations.[3] It has funded a Ukrainian newspaper. Ukrainian organizations operate freely in Kazakhstan, and currently there are 20 Ukrainian cultural centers that sponsor Sunday schools, choirs, and folk dancing groups. Kazakhstan's capital, Nur-Sultan, has a Ukrainian high school and Sunday school.[4] The shared sufferings of the Kazakh and Ukrainian peoples at the hands of the Soviets are emphasized by Kazakh-Ukrainian activists.[3]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Kazakhstan

    It looks that there indeed a different type of Ukrainian that lives in Russia than in Canada or Kazakhstan. I wonder why?

    Replies: @Mikhail, @melanf

    “Kazakhstan’s capital, Nur-Sultan, has a Ukrainian high school”
    It looks that there indeed a different type of Ukrainian that lives in Russia than in Canada or Kazakhstan. I wonder why?

    To be honest, I am not very interested in this, but the few official information that is available about the “Ukrainian” school in Astana is exclusively in Russian. Email address of this school [email protected] (have you considered the domain?), in the video, graduates of this school sing in Russian https://ok.ru/video/1582849133282. Official information (in Russian) “school with the study of the Ukrainian language” http://www.balazan.kz/comon/place/detail.php?e=3260 that is, this is not a school where they teach in Ukrainian, but a school where Ukrainian is studied as a foreign language. In Chicago, Ukrainian schools are also arranged this way, or are there real Ukrainian schools there?

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    @melanf

    No surprise.

    Replies: @melanf

    , @Mr. Hack
    @melanf

    I think that I've already answered all of these questions in my reply #509.

    As far as why the students in the video are singing in Russian instead of Ukrainian, perhaps Russification has continued there unabated. After all, don't a lot of Kazakhies, especially in the larger cities also continue to communicate in Russian? Wikipedia, provides additional information on this topic:


    Although the Ukrainian language continues to be significant in rural areas with compact Ukrainian settlement, and is actively supported by the Kazakh government,[3] the use of the Russian language has come to dominate within Kazakhstan's Ukrainian community. Due to assimilation with Russian culture, the proportion of the Ukrainian population in Kazakhstan who declare the Ukrainian language to be their mother tongue has declined from 78.7% in 1926 to only 36.6% today.[2] Most Ukrainians in Kazakhstan, when faced with pressure from the majority Kazakhs, have tended to unite with fellow Russian Slavs.[1] There is thus somewhat of a cultural divide within Kazakhstan's Ukrainian community between those who maintain a Ukrainian political and cultural identity (largely descendants of mid 20th century immigrants) and those who have become culturally and linguistically Russified (the descendants of those who migrated to Kazakhstan earlier).[3]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Kazakhstan

    The same entry also indicates that there are 9 Ukrainian Catholic churches in Kazakhstan. I wouldn't think that Church Slavonic has been incorporated into their liturgies, in place of Ukrainian.

    , @AP
    @melanf


    Email address of this school [email protected] (have you considered the domain?), in the video, graduates of this school sing in Russian https://ok.ru/video/1582849133282.
     
    And here, students at the school speak very good Ukrainian:

    https://www.facebook.com/UCIC.Astana/videos/864828643697950/

    And here, they have Ukrainian dances:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSnlVAEE8XQ

    But they also have Russian stuff:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fu6QN7PuIY

    ::::::::::::::::

    But you see, Moscow does not allow even such a school, in both languages.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf

    Indeed, so you believe the Moscow authorities. Do you also believe that the Ukrainians do not want a single Church of their own in Moscow?


    It is very easy to check the words of the Moscow authorities – show us any rallies in Moscow (with the participation of thousands of people) in support of Ukrainian education, petitions signed by tens of thousands of Moscow residents
     
    Because mass protests indicate a desire for a school? Let me remind you that it takes about 2,000 people to produce enough kids for a school (that is, towns with 2,000 people will have a school). You are seriously claiming that not even 2% of Moscow’s Ukrainians want a school for their kids. This would make Ukrainians in Moscow absolutely unique, compared to Ukrainians in Kazakhstan, Canada, USA, etc. It also contradicts claims by Ukrainian community in Moscow itself which states that its petitions and appeals have been ignored.

    “Nor do Russians in Ukraine, Latvia or Estonia need Russian schools.”

    The result of such ideas was the loss of Donbass for Ukraine (where relatively recently the majority of the population considered themselves Ukrainians
     
    The loss of Donbas was due to temporary non-existence of Ukrainian military combined with active Russian intervention. Latvia and Estonia, and the rest of Ukraine (including Kiev, Kharkiv, etc), were not lost due to not giving Russians what they don’t need.

    Replies: @melanf

    Let me remind you that it takes about 2,000 people to produce enough kids for a school

    Well, great – can you show me the petition of 2000 residents of Moscow about the organization of a Ukrainian school? If not , then what is the conversation about? The version that “Ukrainians are afraid” is, to put it mildly, ridiculous

    • Agree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    Well, great – can you show me the petition of 2000 residents of Moscow about the organization of a Ukrainian school
     
    Do I have access to government archives that have such a petition? The local Ukrainian organisation representing thousands of Ukrainians in Moscow asked for a school and was denied it. Just as requests for Ukrainian Greek Catholic and Orthodox churches are denied in Russia.

    You have petitions of Russians in Lviv wanting a Russian school for their kids?

    The version that “Ukrainians are afraid” is, to put it mildly, ridiculous
     
    I didn’t claim they are terrified; I don’t think are.

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @melanf

  • @Mr. Hack
    @melanf

    I find it taxing beyond reasonable belief that wherever Ukrainians congregate around the world in any sizable amount, they show a desire and the ability to create some form of Ukrainian language schooling, so that their children are able to maintain some modicum of knowledge of their mother tongue, all except for Russia? I strongly suspect that Ukrainians in Russia are just afraid to exhibit any signs of their native language or culture in a sea of hostility and intolerance within Putin's Russia:


    It [the political regime in the country] determines the government’s attitude toward the national minorities residing in the country and may (or may not) prompt the government to foster enforcement of their rights. Europe, the US, and even Cuba have Ukrainian-language educational establishments where, incidentally, not only ethnic Ukrainians but also local children study... Did Russia have Ukrainian-language schools and kindergartens before? “It did have some. By mid-1930s such schools used to function in Moscow, Leningrad (now St. Petersburg), Kursk, Belgorod, Rostov, Voronezh oblasts, the Kuban, the Far East, and Siberia. In 1932–33 they were closed. In Ukraine Russians are exercising their constitutional right to send their children to Russian-language schools. Instead there is barely any favorable political climate of this kind for Ukrainians in Russia. They cannot invent anything better than to say that people ‘don’t want’. Don’t want or do not dare?”
     
    https://day.kyiv.ua/en/article/close/russian-ukraine-vs-ukrainian-russia

    Replies: @Mikhail, @melanf, @AP

    ?

    I strongly suspect that Ukrainians in Russia are just afraid to exhibit any signs of their native language

    Funny joke. In Russia there is a whole political party Jabloko which officially refuses to recognize Crimea as Russia
    https://lenta.ru/news/2021/08/17/zbloko_krym/
    Ukrainians study in Russian-language schools also in Belarus, Kazakhstan, the Baltic states …

    Out of curiosity, I read the Ukrainian officialdom. And what did I read there?

    Thanks to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 2019, the state supported 164 projects of Saturday and Sunday Ukrainian foreign schools.
    However, Alla Polevaya said that today, unfortunately, (outside of Ukraine) there is not a single Ukrainian school in the full sense of the word, so that they teach not just in the Ukrainian language, but from the first to the last grade
    .”

    https://education.24tv.ua/ru/rodnoj-jazyk-za-rubezhom-skolko-ukrainskih-shkol-novosti-ukrainy_n1427454

    And what do you say about this?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @melanf

    Well, let's give Alla Polevaya some credit. She did preface her findings by stating that they were "unfortunate". :-)

    She's probably mostly correct in her conclusions. Most of the half dozen or so Ukrainian full-time schools in both Canada and the US don't conduct all of their classes exclusively in Ukrainian. I recall reading somewhere that the mix is something like 50/50. The reason that non-Ukrainian students attend these schools is because they're all around excellent schools. But yes, most of these schools are only conducted on Saturdays. I couldn't tell you what's going on today, but the school that I attended on Saturdays as a kid were conducted 100% in Ukrainian. Some of the classes that I attended were: Ukrainian language, Ukrainian History, Geography, Religion, Choir, and even Art classes. It wasn't until I was in college, that I decided to round out my Ukrainian education by taking some Russian language and culture courses. :-)

    , @AP
    @melanf


    “Thanks to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 2019, the state supported 164 projects of Saturday and Sunday Ukrainian foreign schools.
    However, Alla Polevaya said that today, unfortunately, (outside of Ukraine) there is not a single Ukrainian school in the full sense of the word, so that they teach not just in the Ukrainian language, but from the first to the last grade.”
     
    If she means schools exclusively in the Ukrainian language than of course this is correct. The 5 Monday through Friday Ukrainian schools in Canada, USA, Brazil, Kazakhstan (IIRC) have Ukrainian language courses daily but are about half in Ukrainian.
  • @AP
    @melanf

    Your claim that Ukrainians in Moscow don’t need or want a Ukrainian school is based on this silly article:

    http://www.odnako.org/blogs/v-moskve-hoteli-otkrit-ukrainoyazichniy-klass-no-ne-sobrali-detey/

    It quotes a Party of Regions pro-Russian activist and “corroborates” his claim by quoting Vladimir Kornilov. Who is Kornilov?

    https://dosye.info/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87

    Pro-Russian activist from Donetsk who wants a union of Russia and Ukraine. Banned in Ukraine apparently.

    Is most information that you read about Ukraine and naively believe a circle jerk of Russian nationalist or pro-Soviet activists referencing one another, like the article you posted?


    Show that he is wrong. Give examples of rallies / demonstrations in Moscow demanding schools in Ukrainian, petitions of Moscow residents demanding to create such a school, etc
     
    So you demand that Ukrainians rally in Moscow? If they don’t then there is ni demand for a school?

    When I lived in Moscow I went to a meeting at the cultural center in Moscow where a group of people were complaining that the government was refusing all attempts by the community to have their school. Tatars, Bashkirs, even Koreans were allowed to have their schools but Ukrainians were denied by bureaucratic manoeuvres. And no not all of the 150,000 Ukrainians there are Russian speakers, Moscow had attracted Ukrainian settlers from everywhere. AFAIK there aren’t any Ukrainian Orthodox or Ukrainian Greek Catholic Churches in Moscow either. Are you going to claim all 150,000 Ukrainians* in Moscow have roots in Donetsk or Kharkiv?

    Ukrainians in Moscow do not need Ukrainian schools
     
    Agree. Nor do Russians in Ukraine, Latvia or Estonia need Russian schools. Just don’t hypocritically complain about Russians living in other peoples’ countries not getting what they don’t need.

    * Officials census figure that doesn’t include 100,000s gastarbeiters

    Replies: @melanf

    Your claim that Ukrainians in Moscow don’t need or want a Ukrainian school is based on this silly article:
    http://www.odnako.org/blogs/v-moskve-hoteli-otkrit-ukrainoyazichniy-klass-no-ne-sobrali-detey/
    It quotes a Party of Regions pro-Russian activist

    Here is the official response of the Moscow authorities, which they have repeated many times:

    there are no Ukrainian schools (five-day) in Moscow. There are Armenian ones. There are Georgian ones. There are Tatar ones. But Ukrainian ones do not exist. And the head of the Moscow Department of Education Olga Larionova even explains why. Because all schools with an ethnic component in Moscow are opened on the initiative of the diasporas. Armenians want to teach their children about Armenian culture. Georgians want it. Tatars want. And the Ukrainians don’t want to. And to all the proposals of the Department of Education, the Ukrainian diaspora replied: “We do not need a Ukrainian school.”

    It is very easy to check the words of the Moscow authorities – show us any rallies in Moscow (with the participation of thousands of people) in support of Ukrainian education, petitions signed by tens of thousands of Moscow residents, etc. etc. If such rallies / petitions / … exist, then the Moscow authorities are lying.
    If such rallies / petitions / … do not exist, then the Moscow authorities are telling the truth.

    Nor do Russians in Ukraine, Latvia or Estonia need Russian schools.

    The result of such ideas was the loss of Donbass for Ukraine (where relatively recently the majority of the population considered themselves Ukrainians). But you can, of course, continue to “play a fool” (I don’t know how to say it correctly in English) referring to the absence of Ukrainian schools in Moscow

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @melanf

    I find it taxing beyond reasonable belief that wherever Ukrainians congregate around the world in any sizable amount, they show a desire and the ability to create some form of Ukrainian language schooling, so that their children are able to maintain some modicum of knowledge of their mother tongue, all except for Russia? I strongly suspect that Ukrainians in Russia are just afraid to exhibit any signs of their native language or culture in a sea of hostility and intolerance within Putin's Russia:


    It [the political regime in the country] determines the government’s attitude toward the national minorities residing in the country and may (or may not) prompt the government to foster enforcement of their rights. Europe, the US, and even Cuba have Ukrainian-language educational establishments where, incidentally, not only ethnic Ukrainians but also local children study... Did Russia have Ukrainian-language schools and kindergartens before? “It did have some. By mid-1930s such schools used to function in Moscow, Leningrad (now St. Petersburg), Kursk, Belgorod, Rostov, Voronezh oblasts, the Kuban, the Far East, and Siberia. In 1932–33 they were closed. In Ukraine Russians are exercising their constitutional right to send their children to Russian-language schools. Instead there is barely any favorable political climate of this kind for Ukrainians in Russia. They cannot invent anything better than to say that people ‘don’t want’. Don’t want or do not dare?”
     
    https://day.kyiv.ua/en/article/close/russian-ukraine-vs-ukrainian-russia

    Replies: @Mikhail, @melanf, @AP

    , @AP
    @melanf

    Indeed, so you believe the Moscow authorities. Do you also believe that the Ukrainians do not want a single Church of their own in Moscow?


    It is very easy to check the words of the Moscow authorities – show us any rallies in Moscow (with the participation of thousands of people) in support of Ukrainian education, petitions signed by tens of thousands of Moscow residents
     
    Because mass protests indicate a desire for a school? Let me remind you that it takes about 2,000 people to produce enough kids for a school (that is, towns with 2,000 people will have a school). You are seriously claiming that not even 2% of Moscow’s Ukrainians want a school for their kids. This would make Ukrainians in Moscow absolutely unique, compared to Ukrainians in Kazakhstan, Canada, USA, etc. It also contradicts claims by Ukrainian community in Moscow itself which states that its petitions and appeals have been ignored.

    “Nor do Russians in Ukraine, Latvia or Estonia need Russian schools.”

    The result of such ideas was the loss of Donbass for Ukraine (where relatively recently the majority of the population considered themselves Ukrainians
     
    The loss of Donbas was due to temporary non-existence of Ukrainian military combined with active Russian intervention. Latvia and Estonia, and the rest of Ukraine (including Kiev, Kharkiv, etc), were not lost due to not giving Russians what they don’t need.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf

    So your sources are a random person on a blog and a man working for the same government that prevents any Ukrainian schools in his country?

    Also your source: “Об этом заявил народный депутат от Партии регионов, глава организации "Русскоязычная Украина" Вадим Колесниченко”

    A pro-Russian activist from the Party of Regions.
    Ha.

    Maybe we should quote Banderists about the situation of Russians in Lviv?


    “There is not a single Ukrainian school in Moscow, which has officially about 150,000 Ukrainians.”

    Most of them speak Russian as their native language. A rough analogy – a million Irish live in New York. How many Gaelic schools (teaching in Gaelic) are there in New York
     
    And most of the 45,000 Ukrainians in Chicago speak English, yet they support a daily Ukrainian school.

    Also, of course, Gaelic is much less common than Ukrainian.

    Replies: @melanf

    And most of the 45,000 Ukrainians in Chicago speak English, yet they support a daily Ukrainian school.

    So these are completely different Ukrainians than in Moscow or St. Petersburg. And Ukrainian / Russian or Ukrainian / English are completely different cases. the analogue of the Ukrainian school in Moscow will be a school in the Scottish Lowlanders dialect in Chicago.

    A pro-Russian activis…

    Show that he is wrong. Give examples of rallies / demonstrations in Moscow demanding schools in Ukrainian, petitions of Moscow residents demanding to create such a school, etc. So far, there is a reality given to us – Ukrainians in Moscow do not need Ukrainian schools (and most of them do not know Ukrainian)

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @melanf

    Ukrainians in Moscow fear reprisals for standing up for any signs of promoting Ukrainian language preferences. Have you already forgotten AP's bringing this up in his comment #438? Then there's the nasty little affair of Muscovite authorities closing down the only Ukrainian library in all of Russia. I believe the authorities found one Banderite type comic book on shelf #37 covered with dust from inactive use.

    For some reason, the authorities in Kazakhstan feel more threatened by the presence of Russian cultural symbols there than Ukrainian ones:


    In an effort to differentiate the Ukrainian and Russian communities in Kazakhstan, the Kazakh government has actively supported Ukrainian cultural aspirations.[3] It has funded a Ukrainian newspaper. Ukrainian organizations operate freely in Kazakhstan, and currently there are 20 Ukrainian cultural centers that sponsor Sunday schools, choirs, and folk dancing groups. Kazakhstan's capital, Nur-Sultan, has a Ukrainian high school and Sunday school.[4] The shared sufferings of the Kazakh and Ukrainian peoples at the hands of the Soviets are emphasized by Kazakh-Ukrainian activists.[3]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Kazakhstan

    It looks that there indeed a different type of Ukrainian that lives in Russia than in Canada or Kazakhstan. I wonder why?

    Replies: @Mikhail, @melanf

    , @AP
    @melanf

    Your claim that Ukrainians in Moscow don’t need or want a Ukrainian school is based on this silly article:

    http://www.odnako.org/blogs/v-moskve-hoteli-otkrit-ukrainoyazichniy-klass-no-ne-sobrali-detey/

    It quotes a Party of Regions pro-Russian activist and “corroborates” his claim by quoting Vladimir Kornilov. Who is Kornilov?

    https://dosye.info/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87

    Pro-Russian activist from Donetsk who wants a union of Russia and Ukraine. Banned in Ukraine apparently.

    Is most information that you read about Ukraine and naively believe a circle jerk of Russian nationalist or pro-Soviet activists referencing one another, like the article you posted?


    Show that he is wrong. Give examples of rallies / demonstrations in Moscow demanding schools in Ukrainian, petitions of Moscow residents demanding to create such a school, etc
     
    So you demand that Ukrainians rally in Moscow? If they don’t then there is ni demand for a school?

    When I lived in Moscow I went to a meeting at the cultural center in Moscow where a group of people were complaining that the government was refusing all attempts by the community to have their school. Tatars, Bashkirs, even Koreans were allowed to have their schools but Ukrainians were denied by bureaucratic manoeuvres. And no not all of the 150,000 Ukrainians there are Russian speakers, Moscow had attracted Ukrainian settlers from everywhere. AFAIK there aren’t any Ukrainian Orthodox or Ukrainian Greek Catholic Churches in Moscow either. Are you going to claim all 150,000 Ukrainians* in Moscow have roots in Donetsk or Kharkiv?

    Ukrainians in Moscow do not need Ukrainian schools
     
    Agree. Nor do Russians in Ukraine, Latvia or Estonia need Russian schools. Just don’t hypocritically complain about Russians living in other peoples’ countries not getting what they don’t need.

    * Officials census figure that doesn’t include 100,000s gastarbeiters

    Replies: @melanf

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    @melanf

    I think this is a fair point.

    Ukrainians who live in Moscow (or Russia) will not generally be strongly self-conscious Ukrainians with a burning desire to pass down their identity to their children.

    Replies: @AP

  • @AP
    @melanf

    Okay. It is a Sunday school, not a 5 day a week school. There is not a single Ukrainian school in Moscow, which has officially about 150,000 Ukrainians. Chicago has 45,000 Ukrainians, of whom perhaps 15,000 are Ukrainian fluent, yet has a 5 day a week Ukrainian school (it ends in the 8th grade). The Kazakh capital has one Ukrainian high school:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D1%8B_%D0%B2_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%85%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5

    There is not a single Ukrainian school in Russia, which has officially about 2 million Ukrainians - more than Canada (1.3 million of full and partial ancestry).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @melanf

    Okay. It is a Sunday school

    In which there is a constant lack of students, which was emphasized above

    5 day a week school? На

    http://www.odnako.org/blogs/v-moskve-hoteli-otkrit-ukrainoyazichniy-klass-no-ne-sobrali-detey/
    For two years in Moscow, they tried to open classes and schools for children with instruction in the Ukrainian language. They have repeatedly appealed to the Ukrainian diaspora:” Give children who would be taught in the Ukrainian language. “But the authorities failed to recruit even one Ukrainian-language class.”
    This information was confirmed by the director of the Ukrainian branch of the Institute of CIS Countries Vladimir Kornilov. “The authorities tried … to create a state Ukrainian school in Moscow at the expense of the Moscow budget. And, you know, three or four people were recruited and then taken away, because the classes were inferior,” said Kornilov.

    There is not a single Ukrainian school in Moscow, which has officially about 150,000 Ukrainians.

    Most of them speak Russian as their native language. A rough analogy – a million Irish live in New York. How many Gaelic schools (teaching in Gaelic) are there in New York?

    • Agree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    So your sources are a random person on a blog and a man working for the same government that prevents any Ukrainian schools in his country?

    Also your source: “Об этом заявил народный депутат от Партии регионов, глава организации "Русскоязычная Украина" Вадим Колесниченко”

    A pro-Russian activist from the Party of Regions.
    Ha.

    Maybe we should quote Banderists about the situation of Russians in Lviv?


    “There is not a single Ukrainian school in Moscow, which has officially about 150,000 Ukrainians.”

    Most of them speak Russian as their native language. A rough analogy – a million Irish live in New York. How many Gaelic schools (teaching in Gaelic) are there in New York
     
    And most of the 45,000 Ukrainians in Chicago speak English, yet they support a daily Ukrainian school.

    Also, of course, Gaelic is much less common than Ukrainian.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf


    “Ukrainian school named after Pavel Popovich. It is located near the Arbatskaya metro station in the center of Moscow. Unfortunately, there is always a shortage in it – few people want to learn the Ukrainian language.”
     
    Evidence of its existence other than a claim in a blog post? I went to some meeting at the Ukrainian center on Arbat a few years ago and the people were complaining that the authorities were preventing them from opening a school there. They organized their own school on weekends. There are daily Ukrainian schools in Chicago and Detroit, which have fewer western Ukrainians than does Moscow.

    Replies: @melanf

    Evidence of its existence other than a claim in a blog post?

    http://ukrcentr.ru/ukra%D1%97nska-nedilna-shkola-imeni-pavla-popovicha/

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    Okay. It is a Sunday school, not a 5 day a week school. There is not a single Ukrainian school in Moscow, which has officially about 150,000 Ukrainians. Chicago has 45,000 Ukrainians, of whom perhaps 15,000 are Ukrainian fluent, yet has a 5 day a week Ukrainian school (it ends in the 8th grade). The Kazakh capital has one Ukrainian high school:

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D1%8B_%D0%B2_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%85%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5

    There is not a single Ukrainian school in Russia, which has officially about 2 million Ukrainians - more than Canada (1.3 million of full and partial ancestry).

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf


    With a turnout of 49%. That is, these 22% are 10% of Crimean voters. Half of those who voted were Tatars and other non-Ukrainians
     
    Turnout was uneven in Crimea; only slightly more than a third of Tatars voted and the Tatar regions had the lowest turnout.

    what is the point of these Ukrainian “patriots” to teach children at school in Ukrainian, while living in Russia?
     
    The same point why some Russians want to send their kids to Russian schools in Ukraine, why Tatars want to send their kids to Tatar schools, why Ukrainians in Moscow want to send their kids to Ukrainian schools (but are denied).

    Replies: @melanf

    The same point why some Russians want to send their kids to Russian schools in Ukraine,

    Russian is spoken (as native language) by a large part of Ukraine, and the Russian language can be useful outside of Ukraine. But the Ukrainian language in Crimea is spoken only by some unique people in their family, and the Ukrainian language is useless everywhere except Ukraine (and very few people want to emigrate to Ukraine)

    why Ukrainians in Moscow want to send their kids to Ukrainian schools (but are denied)


    “Ukrainian school named after Pavel Popovich. It is located near the Arbatskaya metro station in the center of Moscow. Unfortunately, there is always a shortage in it – few people want to learn the Ukrainian language.”

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    “Ukrainian school named after Pavel Popovich. It is located near the Arbatskaya metro station in the center of Moscow. Unfortunately, there is always a shortage in it – few people want to learn the Ukrainian language.”
     
    Evidence of its existence other than a claim in a blog post? I went to some meeting at the Ukrainian center on Arbat a few years ago and the people were complaining that the authorities were preventing them from opening a school there. They organized their own school on weekends. There are daily Ukrainian schools in Chicago and Detroit, which have fewer western Ukrainians than does Moscow.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf

    The election in which 22% of Crimea's population and about half (likely slight majority) of ethnic Ukrainians voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties had a larger sample size (over a million voters) than did the Gallup poll, which had a sample size of about 750 people - 28% of whom were pensioners.

    I'm sure demand for Ukrainians schools would drop for the reasons you listed, but drop to virtually zero is unrealistic.

    Replies: @melanf

    The election in which 22% of Crimea’s population and about half (likely slight majority) of ethnic Ukrainians

    With a turnout of 49%. That is, these 22% are 10% of Crimean voters. Half of those who voted were Tatars and other non-Ukrainians. But most importantly – what is the point of these Ukrainian “patriots” to teach children at school in Ukrainian, while living in Russia?

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    With a turnout of 49%. That is, these 22% are 10% of Crimean voters. Half of those who voted were Tatars and other non-Ukrainians
     
    Turnout was uneven in Crimea; only slightly more than a third of Tatars voted and the Tatar regions had the lowest turnout.

    what is the point of these Ukrainian “patriots” to teach children at school in Ukrainian, while living in Russia?
     
    The same point why some Russians want to send their kids to Russian schools in Ukraine, why Tatars want to send their kids to Tatar schools, why Ukrainians in Moscow want to send their kids to Ukrainian schools (but are denied).

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf

    Or the poll was of questionable accuracy. Or Yanukovich faked the election in favor of Ukrainian nationalists. Which of these is most likely?

    Replies: @melanf

    Or the poll was of questionable accuracy.

    There were two surveys by GFK and Gellup (and a number of other surveys by Russian pollsters) that gave similar results. So falsification is unrealistic here.

    In addition, there is a logical outflow in your reasoning – with the complete uselessness of the senselessness of teaching in the Ukrainian language in Russia, people of even the most radical pro-Ukrainian views will give their children to a Russian class or go somewhere to Lviv

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    The election in which 22% of Crimea's population and about half (likely slight majority) of ethnic Ukrainians voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties had a larger sample size (over a million voters) than did the Gallup poll, which had a sample size of about 750 people - 28% of whom were pensioners.

    I'm sure demand for Ukrainians schools would drop for the reasons you listed, but drop to virtually zero is unrealistic.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf

    Except turnout for Tatars was very low in the 2012 election - a little over a third (see the article I linked to). Furthermore Tatars were not 100% on the side of Ukrainian nationalists. So the 22% vote for Ukrainian nationalist parties in 2012 in Crimea mostly came from ethnic Ukrainians.

    Replies: @melanf

    Except turnout for Tatars was very low in the 2012 election – a little over a third (see the article I linked to). Furthermore Tatars were not 100% on the side of Ukrainian nationalists. So the 22% vote for Ukrainian nationalist parties in 2012 in Crimea mostly came from ethnic Ukrainians.

    Well, in that case, in 2012-2014, Ukrainian nationalists lost all popularity among the Ukrainians of Crimea.

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    Or the poll was of questionable accuracy. Or Yanukovich faked the election in favor of Ukrainian nationalists. Which of these is most likely?

    Replies: @melanf

    , @Mr. XYZ
    @melanf

    Makes one wonder just how Novorossiyans would compare to the Crimean Tatars in regards to their views on Russian annexation had Russia outright annexed all of Novorossiya back in 2014.

  • @A123
    @melanf


    He had to sell gas through the intermediary of the Nazguls (SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi) in Warsaw.
     
    I am not sure how you can describe the current "anti rape-ugee" government in Warsaw as "pro-jihadi".

    You either need to back that up or withdraw the false accusation.

    PEACE 😇

    ______

    FYI: There is a notable tower in Saudi Arabia.

     
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbHBjR2W4AU1Azk.jpg

    Replies: @melanf, @216

    I am not sure how you can describe the current “anti rape-ugee” government in Warsaw as “pro-jihadi”.

    Warsaw (along with other countries of Eastern Europe), on the orders of the United States, sold weapons to al-Qaeda militants in Syria (paid for this by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United States). Of course, the United States did this in the interests of Israel. So we see a pro-jihadi and pro-jew (oh what an irony) government in Warsaw

    • Replies: @A123
    @melanf


    Warsaw (along with other countries of Eastern Europe), on the orders of the United States, sold weapons to al-Qaeda militants in Syria
     
    The wild myth about "sold weapons to al'Qaeda" remains badly wrong.

    What "The West" signed up to was arming a Sunni resistance that would fight ISIS. To obtain Turkey's support Obama also offered up regime change. Between resistance group collapses and defeats, ISIS obtained a great deal of equipment they never should have had.

    If you want to blame the feckless SJW/DNC (+ GW Bush)(++ Turkey) feel free. However, you cannot possibly substantiate a transaction between Poland and al'Qaeda.

    Show me the arms manifest where:
        -- Shipper = Poland
        -- Recipient = al'Qaeda

    If you cannot produce specifics about an actual transaction... you are either deceived or disingenuous.

    PEACE 😇

  • @AP
    @melanf


    Crimean Ukrainians and Russians almost equally supported the secession, and only the Tatars split about 50% by 50%. That is, the only group in Crimea that could support Ukrainian nationalists are the Tatars.
     
    Unless you think that Yanukovich faked the 2012 election in favor of Ukrainian nationalists - in those elections 22% of Crimeans voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties. Crimean Tatars were only 12% of the population, plus they had low voter turnout. So most of the votes for Ukrainian nationalist parties came from ethnic Ukrainians. Ethnic Ukrainians were about 24% of Crimea’s population. So probably a little more than half of them voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties. Perhaps because of their clear minority status, the ethnic Ukrainians of Crimea were more inclined to vote for Ukrainian nationalist parties than were the ones in Donbas.

    + children of the Ukrainian military and officials sent to Crimea
     
    Most military and officials were locals (thus they deserted) so this number was small.

    Crimea both Russians and Ukrainians always spoke Russian
     
    This is an exaggeration. Most Ukrainians did speak Russian. Since Ukrainians were 24% of the population but only 6.5% of Crimeans studied in Ukrainian, about 1/4 of Ukrainian kids were studying in Ukrainian.

    Replies: @melanf

    Unless you think that Yanukovich faked the 2012 election in favor of Ukrainian nationalists – in those elections 22% of Crimeans voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties. Crimean Tatars were only 12%

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/crimean-conundrum/

    it is easy to guess^ 12% (actually 15% if you count all Tatars – not only Crimean ones) can easily give 20% and 30% in elections if they have a high turnout

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    Except turnout for Tatars was very low in the 2012 election - a little over a third (see the article I linked to). Furthermore Tatars were not 100% on the side of Ukrainian nationalists. So the 22% vote for Ukrainian nationalist parties in 2012 in Crimea mostly came from ethnic Ukrainians.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @songbird
    Was it Corded Ware, where the sexes were buried facing different compass directions?

    Anyway, I think it would be good to bring back some of these old sex-segregated customs. Perhaps, Minoan dress, at least, for good-looking women.

    I feel it is necessary in order to end the tranny insanity.

    Replies: @Yellowface Anon, @melanf

    Anyway, I think it would be good to bring back some of these old sex-segregated customs. Perhaps, Minoan dress, at least, for good-looking women.

    In the fundamental work “Crete and the Aegean World in the Bronze Age and Early Iron Age (III-early I millennium BC.)” Published in 2002 http://www.sno.pro1.ru/lib/andreev_ot_evrazii_k_evrope/index.htm, there is a criticism of the Minoan civilization – in Minoan Crete, women occupied an unbecoming high position in society . This of course had bad consequences as women are creatures inert and incapable of progress.

    Eh, its sad that feminists don’t read such books, otherwise it would be fun

    • Replies: @Yellowface Anon
    @melanf

    Men without women cannot progress, women without men cannot progress. LGBTQ+ have neither, so they are always parasites on both sexes.

    , @songbird
    @melanf

    I love to read based history, but it is so rare to come by in newer books.

    I still cherish some takedown of Sacagawea that I read in a book from the '30s.

  • @GMC
    @AP

    Good post - I can add a few things about the Tatar since I know a few and my wife works for their 28 million dollar medical sanitarium in Saki. The Tatar were tight with Kiev because they got a whole lot of their land back that was confiscated when they were booted out. This was an ongoing deal with Ukraine and a few of the Tatar leaders, were in that political circle in Simferopol. Prior to the vote Simferopol politics was pretty down and dirty - very corrupt. These leaders, who knew that they were on their way out, publicly, told all Tatar - not to vote. Some of these " leaders" were exiled for 5 years and they continued to advocate for dissent against the new Crimean government - from Ukraine. These guys took claim to the destruction of our electric grid coming from Ukraine a few years back. I'd say most Tatar folks want nothing to do with these so called leaders. The Tatar have solid businesses, homes and family and have not lost their lands, but like all of us, they have had to go through new documentation on all private property. The new Russian rules was a pain in the ass , but had to be done. Most westerners could not tell a difference of a Tatar from a Ukie, Russian, Azerbaijani, Turk, Armenian etc. while walking down the street. And the common people here don't care about this. In fact it gets more complicated in all the talk about these folks, or those folks - or those other folks, than in real life - lol. Thanks

    Replies: @melanf, @Mikhail

    Most westerners could not tell a difference of a Tatar from a Ukie, Russian, Azerbaijani, Turk, Armenian etc. while walking down the street.

    At the individual level, Tatars are difficult to distinguish from Russians, as there are many Tatars of “Slavic” appearance, and many Russians with “Tatar” appearance. Here in the photo – a girl from the Crimean Tatars, her companion is Russian

    • Replies: @GMC
    @melanf

    Great observation - this blog website of Anatoly's is like one in a hundred-- great Information - thanks M !

    , @Pericles
    @melanf

    That Tatar girl scores fairly high on the hot/crazy index. I get the feeling she would knife the photographer if he came any closer. "Don't you know I'm loco?"

    The Russian guy looks more like ... a Tolkien half-elf? "Greetings friend, have some tea and a meal and let us discuss the news of the Necromancer."

    Interesting couple.

    , @Mikhail
    @melanf

    Likewise with Serbs and Bulgarians. Some of them looking Slav, with others looking more Turkic.

  • @melanf
    @A123


    Putin intentionally decided to sell out Christianity and grovel before the German SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi leader Mutti Merkel.
     
    Ahhh that's how it is. Well, now I know who the viceroy of Satan on earth is. But who then are the Poles - whose ties with Germany are much closer than those of Russia?

    Putin did very badly by selling gas directly to Sauron (SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi ) in Berlin. He had to sell gas through the intermediary of the Nazguls (SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi ) in Warsaw. Or maybe Putin should have negotiated directly with Morgoth (SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi ) in Washington?

    https://img.ifunny.co/images/a8a0ced38440cf17c8b927bce497ccc0ac778f9adb671b922dced049de577ff7_1.jpg

    Replies: @melanf, @A123

  • @A123
    @melanf



    The intentionally offensive choice by Russian Elites to land NordStream 2 in Germany will materially worsen Polish-Russian relations.

     

    ????? WTF!?
     
    How explicit does it have to be for you?

    Putin intentionally decided to sell out Christianity and grovel before the German SJW Caliphate's pro-Jihadi leader Mutti Merkel. All to chase & serve the Almighty € and WEF Davos Elites.

    Those who insist on trying to see NordStream 2 as exclusively financial transaction miss the point. In Europe, NordStream 2 was a massive tool of power between Christian Populism vs. Anti-Christian SJW Globalism. Putin chose very poorly.

    PEACE 😇



    HE CHOSE POORLY

    https://youtu.be/qIitjokEJwg?t=15

    Replies: @mal, @melanf

    Putin intentionally decided to sell out Christianity and grovel before the German SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi leader Mutti Merkel.

    Ahhh that’s how it is. Well, now I know who the viceroy of Satan on earth is. But who then are the Poles – whose ties with Germany are much closer than those of Russia?

    Putin did very badly by selling gas directly to Sauron (SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi ) in Berlin. He had to sell gas through the intermediary of the Nazguls (SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi ) in Warsaw. Or maybe Putin should have negotiated directly with Morgoth (SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi ) in Washington?

    • Replies: @melanf
    @melanf

    https://b.radikal.ru/b25/2109/2f/81b7a33ef565.png

    , @A123
    @melanf


    He had to sell gas through the intermediary of the Nazguls (SJW Caliphate’s pro-Jihadi) in Warsaw.
     
    I am not sure how you can describe the current "anti rape-ugee" government in Warsaw as "pro-jihadi".

    You either need to back that up or withdraw the false accusation.

    PEACE 😇

    ______

    FYI: There is a notable tower in Saudi Arabia.

     
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbHBjR2W4AU1Azk.jpg

    Replies: @melanf, @216

  • @AP
    @melanf


    People in Ukrainian schools would still be fluent in Russian, because Ukrainian schools would have Russian classes also

    To enter the university, you need to write an essay (in Russian). Fluent Russian is not enough for this (writing in Russian without violating the existing rules is a special area of scholasticism, I could not master it for 11 years of studying at school)
     

    Are you suggesting that all those kids going to Tatar schools are incapable of university admission?

    Those who voted for Ukrainian nationalists in Crimea are not Ukrainians, but Tatars who had a tactical alliance with Ukrainian nationalists
     
    Voter turnout for Crimean Tatars was low in 2012, just a little more than 30%:

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14683857.2019.1617944?journalCode=fbss20

    Crimean Tatars were only 12% of Crimea's population (Ukrainians were 24%), but the Ukrainian parties got 22% of the vote.

    Most of the votes for the Ukrainian nationalist parties in Crimea came from Ukrainians.


    There are several orders of magnitude more Tatar-speaking Tatars in Crimea than there are Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians.
     
    You are mistaken again, sorry.

    6.5% of Crimea's students were studying in Ukrainian, versus 3% in Crimean Tatar.

    The Crimean Tatars got linguistically Russified during their exile, when they were scattered and their their language was banned.

    In 2009 Crimean Tatar was categorised as ‘severely endangered’ in the UNESCO Atlas of the World's Languages in Danger. :

    https://blogs.bl.uk/european/2018/03/amid-a-thousand-and-one-stars-the-crimean-tatar-language.html

    Crimean Tatar third most spoken language in Crimea, after Russian and Ukrainian:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329386670_Crimean_Tatar_Language_Past_Present_and_Future

    Replies: @melanf, @GMC

    Are you suggesting that all those kids going to Tatar schools are incapable of university admission?

    Children who study in schools with the Tatar language will have disadvantage in comparison with children from Russian schools.

    Most of the votes for the Ukrainian nationalist parties in Crimea came from Ukrainians.

    There is a Gellap poll about the attitude of the Crimean population to the Crimean secession. Crimean Ukrainians and Russians almost equally supported the secession, and only the Tatars split about 50% by 50%. That is, the only group in Crimea that could support Ukrainian nationalists are the Tatars.

    6.5% of Crimea’s students were studying in Ukrainian, versus 3% in Crimean Tatar.

    because under Ukraine, the Ukrainian language gave access to a career and education. + children of the Ukrainian military and officials sent to Crimea

    The Crimean Tatars got linguistically Russified….

    Naturally. But this does not change the fact that in Crimea both Russians and Ukrainians always spoke Russian. In this respect, an even more striking example is Donbass. Before the bombing by the Kiev authorities, the majority of the population considered themselves Ukrainians, but these Ukrainians spoke Russian, and did not want to learn Ukrainian.

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    Crimean Ukrainians and Russians almost equally supported the secession, and only the Tatars split about 50% by 50%. That is, the only group in Crimea that could support Ukrainian nationalists are the Tatars.
     
    Unless you think that Yanukovich faked the 2012 election in favor of Ukrainian nationalists - in those elections 22% of Crimeans voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties. Crimean Tatars were only 12% of the population, plus they had low voter turnout. So most of the votes for Ukrainian nationalist parties came from ethnic Ukrainians. Ethnic Ukrainians were about 24% of Crimea’s population. So probably a little more than half of them voted for Ukrainian nationalist parties. Perhaps because of their clear minority status, the ethnic Ukrainians of Crimea were more inclined to vote for Ukrainian nationalist parties than were the ones in Donbas.

    + children of the Ukrainian military and officials sent to Crimea
     
    Most military and officials were locals (thus they deserted) so this number was small.

    Crimea both Russians and Ukrainians always spoke Russian
     
    This is an exaggeration. Most Ukrainians did speak Russian. Since Ukrainians were 24% of the population but only 6.5% of Crimeans studied in Ukrainian, about 1/4 of Ukrainian kids were studying in Ukrainian.

    Replies: @melanf

    , @Mikhail
    @melanf

    https://www.rt.com/sport/534806-marina-goliadkina-russian-flag-crimea/

  • @A123
    @AnonFromTN

    You are correct about Bulgaria's negligence failing to secure South Stream. Neither Poland nor Hungary can be held responsible for this failure.

    Hungary signed a deal that depends on the new Ottoman Empire. How many ways can that go wrong? Four obvious weaknesses:

    -1- TurkStream does not connect to Hungary. There is also a complicated run North for the gas to reach Serbia (3.5 GM³/yr) and Austria (1.0 GM³/yr) [∆] before arriving in Hungary. I have not seen a map of all the contracted interconnects, but this seems to effectively max out capacity on a number of routes.

    -2- Hungary's main goal is not accepting rape-ugees. Turkey is a source of rape-ugees. While Turkey is better than the Dark Heart of Europe, it represents a highly unreliable partner for Christian Populist policy.

    -3- Turkey and Russia have diametrically opposed visions for Syria. Given the madness that is Erdogan, rapid decline in Russia-Turkey relations are very possible.

    -4- Turkey keeps threatening the now inevitable EastMed pipeline (Israel ➞ Cyprus ➞ Greece ➞ Italy). If Erdogan follows through with his threats, the chances of TurkStream staying in operation is slim to none.
    __

    Poland had no control over Ukrainian Elite incompetence. You seem to be blaming them for something beyond their control.

    The intentionally offensive choice by Russian Elites to land NordStream 2 in Germany will materially worsen Polish-Russian relations. The are numerous pressures to build up U.S./NATO forces without German interference. Putin just guaranteed that Poland will say YES to everything. It would have been much more strategically sound for Putin to include Poland (despite the historical emnities). His rapturous embrace with the Beacon of SJW Globalist theology yields short term economic gain & long term national security pain.

    PEACE 😇
    __________

    [∆] GM³ = Giga Cubic Meters, multiply by 35.315 to convert to English notation Bcf (Billion cubic feet).

    Replies: @melanf

    The intentionally offensive choice by Russian Elites to land NordStream 2 in Germany will materially worsen Polish-Russian relations.

    ????? WTF!?

    • LOL: mal
    • Replies: @A123
    @melanf



    The intentionally offensive choice by Russian Elites to land NordStream 2 in Germany will materially worsen Polish-Russian relations.

     

    ????? WTF!?
     
    How explicit does it have to be for you?

    Putin intentionally decided to sell out Christianity and grovel before the German SJW Caliphate's pro-Jihadi leader Mutti Merkel. All to chase & serve the Almighty € and WEF Davos Elites.

    Those who insist on trying to see NordStream 2 as exclusively financial transaction miss the point. In Europe, NordStream 2 was a massive tool of power between Christian Populism vs. Anti-Christian SJW Globalism. Putin chose very poorly.

    PEACE 😇



    HE CHOSE POORLY

    https://youtu.be/qIitjokEJwg?t=15

    Replies: @mal, @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf

    People in Ukrainian schools would still be fluent in Russian, because Ukrainian schools would have Russian classes also. There are after all Tatar, Korean, etc schools in Moscow, Tatar ones in Crimea - but no Ukrainian. It’s a political rather market decision, which is fine because it’s not native Ukrainian land and the it’s what the majority wants. Sad that some Russians whine when Ukraine pursues similar policies.

    Replies: @melanf

    People in Ukrainian schools would still be fluent in Russian, because Ukrainian schools would have Russian classes also

    To enter the university, you need to write an essay (in Russian). Fluent Russian is not enough for this (writing in Russian without violating the existing rules is a special area of scholasticism, I could not master it for 11 years of studying at school)

    Those who voted for Ukrainian nationalists in Crimea are not Ukrainians, but Tatars who had a tactical alliance with Ukrainian nationalists

    There are after all Tatar, Korean, etc schools in Moscow, Tatar ones in Crimea

    There are several orders of magnitude more Tatar-speaking Tatars in Crimea than there are Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians.

    For Russian (and generally ex-Soviet) Koreans, the native language is Russian.

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    People in Ukrainian schools would still be fluent in Russian, because Ukrainian schools would have Russian classes also

    To enter the university, you need to write an essay (in Russian). Fluent Russian is not enough for this (writing in Russian without violating the existing rules is a special area of scholasticism, I could not master it for 11 years of studying at school)
     

    Are you suggesting that all those kids going to Tatar schools are incapable of university admission?

    Those who voted for Ukrainian nationalists in Crimea are not Ukrainians, but Tatars who had a tactical alliance with Ukrainian nationalists
     
    Voter turnout for Crimean Tatars was low in 2012, just a little more than 30%:

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14683857.2019.1617944?journalCode=fbss20

    Crimean Tatars were only 12% of Crimea's population (Ukrainians were 24%), but the Ukrainian parties got 22% of the vote.

    Most of the votes for the Ukrainian nationalist parties in Crimea came from Ukrainians.


    There are several orders of magnitude more Tatar-speaking Tatars in Crimea than there are Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians.
     
    You are mistaken again, sorry.

    6.5% of Crimea's students were studying in Ukrainian, versus 3% in Crimean Tatar.

    The Crimean Tatars got linguistically Russified during their exile, when they were scattered and their their language was banned.

    In 2009 Crimean Tatar was categorised as ‘severely endangered’ in the UNESCO Atlas of the World's Languages in Danger. :

    https://blogs.bl.uk/european/2018/03/amid-a-thousand-and-one-stars-the-crimean-tatar-language.html

    Crimean Tatar third most spoken language in Crimea, after Russian and Ukrainian:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329386670_Crimean_Tatar_Language_Past_Present_and_Future

    Replies: @melanf, @GMC

  • @AP
    @melanf

    Assuming this is accurate, in normal circumstances if the number of interested parents declined, then some schools would close in order to consolidate the remaining ones into viable schools. It is simply not realistic that demand in a population that in 2012 had voted about 20% for pro-Ukrainian political parties (~ 200,000 people) and had supported 6.5% enrolment in Ukrainian classes would shrink to virtually zero.

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @melanf

    It is simply not realistic that demand in a population that in 2012 had voted about 20% for pro-Ukrainian political parties (~ 200,000 people) and had supported 6.5% enrolment in Ukrainian classes would shrink to virtually zero.

    And what is surprising here? In Ukraine, the Ukrainian language opened the way to study at universities, official positions, etc.
    In Russia, learning the Ukrainian language is absolutely useless, and reduces the prospects of children for a normal future. So even people with pro-Ukrainian views will send children to learn Russian.

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    People in Ukrainian schools would still be fluent in Russian, because Ukrainian schools would have Russian classes also. There are after all Tatar, Korean, etc schools in Moscow, Tatar ones in Crimea - but no Ukrainian. It’s a political rather market decision, which is fine because it’s not native Ukrainian land and the it’s what the majority wants. Sad that some Russians whine when Ukraine pursues similar policies.

    Replies: @melanf

  • Not it’s not a strange idea of architects.

    A strange idea of architects is that the exterior of the building (without alternative) must correspond to the technology of its construction. St. Isaac’s Cathedral is aesthetically no different from St. Peter’s Cathedral, but with a completely different technology.creating a dome. Based on the ideas that are preached by all sorts of architectural fags like Varlamov-St. Isaac’s Cathedral is kitsch and fake

    • Replies: @Svevlad
    @melanf

    Oh yeah, even using the word "kitsch" (as well as "schund") should be one of the few automatic death penalty crimes (for the purposes of purging the intelligentsia of imbeciles, subhumans, and other incredibly annoying people who in a normal society would be forced to clean septic tanks orally). Nobody but wispy bearded soyadeen use those unironically, all communists or cryptocommunists.

  • @AP
    @melanf


    In homeopathic doses, such people (who speak Ukrainian at home) of course were and are in the Crimea. But for the sake of a homeopathic number of Ukrainian-speaking schoolchildren, to maintain a separate education system in the Ukrainian language? Schools where classes will consist of 1-2 children?
     
    They had Ukrainian schools with at least a dozen students in a class.

    I have quoted above the complaints of the Ukrainian press. “They had 894 (Ukrainian-speaking) students”
     
    Your source was either mistaken or misquoted. Either way it was wildly inaccurate. The total number of classes (not students) taught
    in Ukrainian was 875:

    https://khpg.org/en/1526170617

    Approximately 6.5% of Crimean children were studying in Ukrainian. In seven schools the entire program was in Ukrainian. This is more than 894 students.

    And these students are scattered all over the peninsula, and do not live in one place
     
    You really believe they were evenly distributed across the peninsula?

    In addition, the Ukrainian language in the Crimea under the rule of Ukraine gave some prospects for education and career. Now it does not give anything, so a sharp decrease in the request for the Ukrainian language among Ukrainian-speaking residents of the Crimea was inevitable
     
    Would this drive demand down from 6.5% to zero? Not very realistic.

    Don’t you find it absurd that Ukraine still tolerates sects and organizations in its territory that are subordinate to Moscow?

    They don’t tolerate them. Well, or, if you want, they tolerate it, in the sense in which Alexander III tolerated the Polish language and Polish identity in Poland
     
    The UOC MP is still allowed to control some famous churches and monasteries, even in central Ukraine far from Russian ethnic settlement. How many Kiev-controlled churches are there in Russian inhabited territories? It highlights how much more tolerant Kiev is than Moscow.

    Replies: @melanf, @melanf, @melanf

    Here are the real problems of Ukraine:

    General of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Sergey Krivonos during the round table “Crimea and Donbass: ways of return” stated that Kiev’s struggle for the minds and hearts of Ukrainians in these territories ended in collapse.
    “Let’s remember how many people who first left the “occupied territories”, then returned back. Why did this happen? Because the people who visited Ukraine did not find a workplace, did not find an opportunity to exist on our territory and returned there”

  • @AP
    @melanf


    In homeopathic doses, such people (who speak Ukrainian at home) of course were and are in the Crimea. But for the sake of a homeopathic number of Ukrainian-speaking schoolchildren, to maintain a separate education system in the Ukrainian language? Schools where classes will consist of 1-2 children?
     
    They had Ukrainian schools with at least a dozen students in a class.

    I have quoted above the complaints of the Ukrainian press. “They had 894 (Ukrainian-speaking) students”
     
    Your source was either mistaken or misquoted. Either way it was wildly inaccurate. The total number of classes (not students) taught
    in Ukrainian was 875:

    https://khpg.org/en/1526170617

    Approximately 6.5% of Crimean children were studying in Ukrainian. In seven schools the entire program was in Ukrainian. This is more than 894 students.

    And these students are scattered all over the peninsula, and do not live in one place
     
    You really believe they were evenly distributed across the peninsula?

    In addition, the Ukrainian language in the Crimea under the rule of Ukraine gave some prospects for education and career. Now it does not give anything, so a sharp decrease in the request for the Ukrainian language among Ukrainian-speaking residents of the Crimea was inevitable
     
    Would this drive demand down from 6.5% to zero? Not very realistic.

    Don’t you find it absurd that Ukraine still tolerates sects and organizations in its territory that are subordinate to Moscow?

    They don’t tolerate them. Well, or, if you want, they tolerate it, in the sense in which Alexander III tolerated the Polish language and Polish identity in Poland
     
    The UOC MP is still allowed to control some famous churches and monasteries, even in central Ukraine far from Russian ethnic settlement. How many Kiev-controlled churches are there in Russian inhabited territories? It highlights how much more tolerant Kiev is than Moscow.

    Replies: @melanf, @melanf, @melanf

    The UOC MP is still allowed to control some famous churches and monasteries, even in central Ukraine far from Russian ethnic settlement.

    And Alexander III “tolerated” the Catholic Church in Poland. And the Bolsheviks “tolerated” the Orthodox Church in Russia – they even allowed to control some famous churches and monasteries

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    Yes, but I specifically stated not in primarily Russian-inhabited areas but in central and even western Ukraine where Russians are a small minority.

    But thank you for confirming that Russia is even more restrictive of Kiev-controlled churches than the Bolsheviks were of Orthodoxy and than Alexander III was of Polish Catholics.

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ

  • @AP
    @melanf


    In homeopathic doses, such people (who speak Ukrainian at home) of course were and are in the Crimea. But for the sake of a homeopathic number of Ukrainian-speaking schoolchildren, to maintain a separate education system in the Ukrainian language? Schools where classes will consist of 1-2 children?
     
    They had Ukrainian schools with at least a dozen students in a class.

    I have quoted above the complaints of the Ukrainian press. “They had 894 (Ukrainian-speaking) students”
     
    Your source was either mistaken or misquoted. Either way it was wildly inaccurate. The total number of classes (not students) taught
    in Ukrainian was 875:

    https://khpg.org/en/1526170617

    Approximately 6.5% of Crimean children were studying in Ukrainian. In seven schools the entire program was in Ukrainian. This is more than 894 students.

    And these students are scattered all over the peninsula, and do not live in one place
     
    You really believe they were evenly distributed across the peninsula?

    In addition, the Ukrainian language in the Crimea under the rule of Ukraine gave some prospects for education and career. Now it does not give anything, so a sharp decrease in the request for the Ukrainian language among Ukrainian-speaking residents of the Crimea was inevitable
     
    Would this drive demand down from 6.5% to zero? Not very realistic.

    Don’t you find it absurd that Ukraine still tolerates sects and organizations in its territory that are subordinate to Moscow?

    They don’t tolerate them. Well, or, if you want, they tolerate it, in the sense in which Alexander III tolerated the Polish language and Polish identity in Poland
     
    The UOC MP is still allowed to control some famous churches and monasteries, even in central Ukraine far from Russian ethnic settlement. How many Kiev-controlled churches are there in Russian inhabited territories? It highlights how much more tolerant Kiev is than Moscow.

    Replies: @melanf, @melanf, @melanf

    Your source was either mistaken or misquoted. Either way it was wildly inaccurate. The total number of classes (not students) taught
    in Ukrainian was 875:

    https://khpg.org/en/1526170617

    Funny joke
    https://iz.ru/news/570180
    “So, in Sevastopol, two out of three schools with Ukrainian classes will teach only in Russian next year.
    — We held parent-teacher conferences, where we invited parents to decide in which language they need to study. Almost all, except for 1-2 people, said that they would like their children to be taught in Russian. Since there are almost no people who want to study in Ukrainian, we will abolish Ukrainian classes from next year — ” said Irina Tikhonenko, director of school No. 8.

    As she specified, the Ukrainian language and literature will be taught optional, but it is not yet clear how many hours will be allocated for this. There is a similar picture in Kerch at school No. 9 and in Sevastopol school No. 37.

    — We are currently teaching in Russian, Ukrainian and Crimean Tatar. On Friday, April 25, there was a school-wide meeting, at which most parents asked to transfer their children to Russian classes. Therefore, starting next year, we will abandon Ukrainian classes, but we will keep the Ukrainian language as an elective, ” said Diana Risovannaya, director of school No. 37. According to her, the Crimean Tatar classes will continue to work as usual, since they have retained the necessary number of students. In the Sevastopol 5th gymnasium, they are inclined to limit themselves to individual lessons of the Ukrainian language, instead of teaching all subjects in it — but the decision has not yet been made.

    School No. 13 in Yevpatoria reported that it is too early to talk about further training programs, since they have not yet drawn up curricula, but they also complained that the number of people who want to send children to Ukrainian classes has sharply decreased. In Kerch school No. 23, they did not tell whether they were ready to preserve the Ukrainian language. Simferopol gymnasium No. 10 and school No. 29 have already faced a sharp outflow of those who want to give their children an education in Ukrainian — but there is no certainty here yet.

    — Now we are recruiting the first classes — there are very few people who want to study in Ukrainian, literally 1-2 people. Apparently, there will be no more Ukrainian classes next year — ” the 10th gymnasium told.”

    There are several hundred people who want to learn Ukrainian on the entire peninsula – what is the point of maintaining special schools for them?

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    Assuming this is accurate, in normal circumstances if the number of interested parents declined, then some schools would close in order to consolidate the remaining ones into viable schools. It is simply not realistic that demand in a population that in 2012 had voted about 20% for pro-Ukrainian political parties (~ 200,000 people) and had supported 6.5% enrolment in Ukrainian classes would shrink to virtually zero.

    Replies: @Mr. XYZ, @melanf

  • @Mr. Hack
    @melanf


    But these Ukrainians (with rare exceptions) did not speak Ukrainian, but had Russian as their native language.
     
    How do you know this to be true? Even if it is, and it probably is for a certain percentage, then it supports my overall point, and shows that Russification in Ukraine has been going on for a long time.

    Who needs it (Russification)? Certainly not Ukrainians today, especially the younger ones that represent Ukraine's future.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia, @melanf

    But these Ukrainians (with rare exceptions) did not speak Ukrainian, but had Russian as their native language.

    How do you know this to be true? Even if it is, and it probably is for a certain percentage, then it supports my overall point, and shows that Russification in Ukraine has been going on for a long time.

    Crimea has never been Ukraine, so to put it mildly, it is strange to complain about the” Russification ” of Ukrainians living in Crimea

  • @Yellowface Anon
    @songbird

    Those are just LARPers who overwhelmingly descend from Japanese immigrants with as much Ainu blood as say, the average White "Native American" LARPer.

    Good thing Hokkaido is still Hokkaido, and not some Ezo Autonomous Do (Province). (What does Russia do with their Far East indigenous minority Republics?)

    (Samis are just as Uralic as Finns, BTW, and you can't say it is really multicult crap)

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @melanf

    What does Russia do with their Far East indigenous minority Republics?

    As far as I know there are no such republics

  • @Mr. Hack
    @melanf


    This whole topic(about the “oppression” of the Ukrainian language in the Crimea, despite the fact that the Ukrainian language has never been used in the Crimea) this is an exclusively export product, for consumption in Western countries.
     
    In 1989 Ukrainians represented the second largest ethnicity to be found within Crimea, at 625,919. Russians dominated the landscape at 1,629,542. In Russia, there's supposed somewhere around 6 million Ukrainians (I suspect that the figure is actually much larger), and in Russia there are currently no Ukrainian language schools nor churches. I've brought this up here before and have been very cynically told that this is because there are no Ukrainians interested in maintaining such institutions, yet in neighboring Kazakhstan there are dozens of Ukrainian schools, churches, cultural groups etc.etc.

    I'm not about to say that every single Ukrainian in Russia has a dying desire to have a Ukrainian language school or church to go to. But none, whereas in Kazakhstan the opposite is on display?

    When you boil this all down, what you are left with is the impression that Ukrainians and Russians cannot live together amicably, unless Ukrainians submit to the most virulent forms of Russification. There's no need for Ukraine to look back nostalgically to again become in a closer alliance with Russia, unless its interested in performing a largescale ethnocide on itself, and become Russian not Ukrainian. The writing is clearly written on the wall for all to see.

    Replies: @melanf

    In 1989 Ukrainians represented the second largest ethnicity to be found within Crimea,

    But these Ukrainians (with rare exceptions) did not speak Ukrainian, but had Russian as their native language. Actually, even the ancestors of these Crimean Ukrainians in most cases did not speak Ukrainian (they spoke dialects intermediate between Russian and Ukrainian).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    @melanf


    But these Ukrainians (with rare exceptions) did not speak Ukrainian, but had Russian as their native language.
     
    How do you know this to be true? Even if it is, and it probably is for a certain percentage, then it supports my overall point, and shows that Russification in Ukraine has been going on for a long time.

    Who needs it (Russification)? Certainly not Ukrainians today, especially the younger ones that represent Ukraine's future.

    Replies: @Mike_from_Russia, @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf


    the Ukrainian language has never been used in the Crimea
     
    Nonsense. Ukrainians also settled in Crimea and some small number of them speak Ukrainian.

    In the 2012 parliamentary election a little over 1% of the Crimean population (representing 20,000 people) voted for the Ukrainian nationalist Svoboda Party and another 20% (total - representing about 200,000 people) voted for the Fatherland and Udar parties. So there is a market for some small number of Ukrainian schools and churches, it wouldn’t be zero.

    Of course, if most people un Crimea don’t want any Ukrainian schools in their territory, this is their right. As it is the right of the people of Ukraine not to have any Russian language secondary schools in their country if the majority doesn’t want it.

    Of course, any sects and organizations subordinate to Kiev in the Crimea will have the status of “non grata”
     
    Sure. Don’t you find it absurd that Ukraine still tolerates sects and organizations in its territory that are subordinate to Moscow?

    Replies: @melanf

    Nonsense. Ukrainians also settled in Crimea and some small number of them speak Ukrainian.

    In homeopathic doses, such people (who speak Ukrainian at home) of course were and are in the Crimea. But for the sake of a homeopathic number of Ukrainian-speaking schoolchildren, to maintain a separate education system in the Ukrainian language? Schools where classes will consist of 1-2 children? This idea is too wasteful for reasons that have nothing to do with politics

    So there is a market for some small number of Ukrainian schools and churches, it wouldn’t be zero.

    I have quoted above the complaints of the Ukrainian press. “They had 894 (Ukrainian-speaking) students”. And these students are scattered all over the peninsula, and do not live in one place. In addition, the Ukrainian language in the Crimea under the rule of Ukraine gave some prospects for education and career. Now it does not give anything, so a sharp decrease in the request for the Ukrainian language among Ukrainian-speaking residents of the Crimea was inevitable

    Don’t you find it absurd that Ukraine still tolerates sects and organizations in its territory that are subordinate to Moscow?

    They don’t tolerate them. Well, or, if you want, they tolerate it, in the sense in which Alexander III tolerated the Polish language and Polish identity in Poland

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    In homeopathic doses, such people (who speak Ukrainian at home) of course were and are in the Crimea. But for the sake of a homeopathic number of Ukrainian-speaking schoolchildren, to maintain a separate education system in the Ukrainian language? Schools where classes will consist of 1-2 children?
     
    They had Ukrainian schools with at least a dozen students in a class.

    I have quoted above the complaints of the Ukrainian press. “They had 894 (Ukrainian-speaking) students”
     
    Your source was either mistaken or misquoted. Either way it was wildly inaccurate. The total number of classes (not students) taught
    in Ukrainian was 875:

    https://khpg.org/en/1526170617

    Approximately 6.5% of Crimean children were studying in Ukrainian. In seven schools the entire program was in Ukrainian. This is more than 894 students.

    And these students are scattered all over the peninsula, and do not live in one place
     
    You really believe they were evenly distributed across the peninsula?

    In addition, the Ukrainian language in the Crimea under the rule of Ukraine gave some prospects for education and career. Now it does not give anything, so a sharp decrease in the request for the Ukrainian language among Ukrainian-speaking residents of the Crimea was inevitable
     
    Would this drive demand down from 6.5% to zero? Not very realistic.

    Don’t you find it absurd that Ukraine still tolerates sects and organizations in its territory that are subordinate to Moscow?

    They don’t tolerate them. Well, or, if you want, they tolerate it, in the sense in which Alexander III tolerated the Polish language and Polish identity in Poland
     
    The UOC MP is still allowed to control some famous churches and monasteries, even in central Ukraine far from Russian ethnic settlement. How many Kiev-controlled churches are there in Russian inhabited territories? It highlights how much more tolerant Kiev is than Moscow.

    Replies: @melanf, @melanf, @melanf

  • @AP
    @melanf

    There were (unless they were driven out) enough of some small percentage of people in Crimea to support a small number of Ukrainian schools and churches. If there are zero now, this reflects a political decision rather than lack of a market.

    Replies: @melanf

    There were (unless they were driven out) enough of some small percentage of people in Crimea to support a small number of Ukrainian schools and churches.

    The Ukrainian press complains about the oppression of the Ukrainian language in Crimea

    https://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3951600-v-krymu-ostalas-tolko-odna-ukraynskaia-shkola
    In 2017-2018, not a single higher and secondary educational institution of the Crimea registered the Ukrainian language as a subject in the methodological programs. … the monitoring study compared the indicators for the 2014-2015 and 2017-2018 academic years. So, four years earlier, there were 22 schools with the Ukrainian language of instruction on the peninsula. They had 894 students.”

    This whole topic(about the “oppression” of the Ukrainian language in the Crimea, despite the fact that the Ukrainian language has never been used in the Crimea) this is an exclusively export product, for consumption in Western countries.

    Of course, any sects and organizations subordinate to Kiev in the Crimea will have the status of “non grata”. But this has nothing to do with the language

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf


    the Ukrainian language has never been used in the Crimea
     
    Nonsense. Ukrainians also settled in Crimea and some small number of them speak Ukrainian.

    In the 2012 parliamentary election a little over 1% of the Crimean population (representing 20,000 people) voted for the Ukrainian nationalist Svoboda Party and another 20% (total - representing about 200,000 people) voted for the Fatherland and Udar parties. So there is a market for some small number of Ukrainian schools and churches, it wouldn’t be zero.

    Of course, if most people un Crimea don’t want any Ukrainian schools in their territory, this is their right. As it is the right of the people of Ukraine not to have any Russian language secondary schools in their country if the majority doesn’t want it.

    Of course, any sects and organizations subordinate to Kiev in the Crimea will have the status of “non grata”
     
    Sure. Don’t you find it absurd that Ukraine still tolerates sects and organizations in its territory that are subordinate to Moscow?

    Replies: @melanf

    , @Mr. Hack
    @melanf


    This whole topic(about the “oppression” of the Ukrainian language in the Crimea, despite the fact that the Ukrainian language has never been used in the Crimea) this is an exclusively export product, for consumption in Western countries.
     
    In 1989 Ukrainians represented the second largest ethnicity to be found within Crimea, at 625,919. Russians dominated the landscape at 1,629,542. In Russia, there's supposed somewhere around 6 million Ukrainians (I suspect that the figure is actually much larger), and in Russia there are currently no Ukrainian language schools nor churches. I've brought this up here before and have been very cynically told that this is because there are no Ukrainians interested in maintaining such institutions, yet in neighboring Kazakhstan there are dozens of Ukrainian schools, churches, cultural groups etc.etc.

    I'm not about to say that every single Ukrainian in Russia has a dying desire to have a Ukrainian language school or church to go to. But none, whereas in Kazakhstan the opposite is on display?

    When you boil this all down, what you are left with is the impression that Ukrainians and Russians cannot live together amicably, unless Ukrainians submit to the most virulent forms of Russification. There's no need for Ukraine to look back nostalgically to again become in a closer alliance with Russia, unless its interested in performing a largescale ethnocide on itself, and become Russian not Ukrainian. The writing is clearly written on the wall for all to see.

    Replies: @melanf

  • Alexandra Trusova, free program Test Skates 2021. Alexandra performed 5 quadruple jumps. Except Trusova only 2-time Olympic champion Yuzuru Hanyu and 3-time world champion Nathan Chen are capable of this – but this is men’s figure skating

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdsIpSbQJdo&ab_channel=%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB

    Trusova seems to be the only figure skater in the history of women’s skating who technically skates at the level of men’s champions

  • @melanf
    @Dmitry


    What is affordable for most buildings, is determined by the building technology of the time
     
    This strange idea is planted by "modern architects" to justify the ugliness of their creations

    The project of the National Library in Kazan. It is a pity that the authorities did not have the courage to implement this eclecticism

    http://svetsky.ru/assets/uploads/2902/dgfs.jpg

    http://nik-rech.narod.ru/album_vzgljad/image/510_20/l_national_liarary_11.jpg

    http://nik-rech.narod.ru/album_vzgljad/image/510_20/l_national_liarary_06.jpg

    http://nik-rech.narod.ru/album_vzgljad/image/510_20/l_national_liarary_04.jpg

    http://nik-rech.narod.ru/album_vzgljad/image/510_20/l_national_liarary_12.jpg

    http://nik-rech.narod.ru/album_vzgljad/image/510_20/l_national_liarary_18.jpg

    Replies: @melanf, @Dmitry

    • Thanks: The Big Red Scary, mal
  • @Dmitry
    @AaronB


    Architecture follows
     
    What is affordable for most buildings, is determined by the building technology of the time - outside of some displaycase architecture.

    I'm sure Bezos or Bill Gates today you could fund a project to recreate the construction technology of Stonehenge and Mayan pyramids, and build in this style - it will not be cheap. For most of the world's architecture is determined by the construction technology of today, with small compromises to peoples' aesthetic tastes.

    This is why we all have the same basic architecture in every country, whether you are in such politically and culturally divergent places as Islamic Republic of Iran or Japan or Mexico.


    Tokyo with it’s narrow and winding alley
     
    Yes Tokyo is used a lot like a traditional Japanese city.

    But the architecture of the buildings are mostly the same square blocks you can see since the second half of the 20th century constructed from New York to Peking.

    Japanese cultural divergence (including in the city planning) is shown more in the way they are using these buildings.

    In Japan among modern square office buildings, there can still be an atmosphere of the old traditional Japan.

    Japan also shows that architecture can be overrated, at least in night when you can't see so much - at night they can recreate an illusion of the traditional Japanese atmosphere, among boring modern square buildings.


    Haussman did to Paris was an absolute crime?
     
    More of the crime in Paris is the flooding of the city with vast numbers of automobiles and highways to hold them from the 1950s. This is shown a lot by Jacques Tati.

    Who prefers the soulless Grands Boulevards to the medieval density of Old Paris? London is the more interesting –

     

    I think most of the French would agree that from the tourist, literary and historians' perspective, the demolishment of old Paris was a tragedy.

    But Haussman's construction had partly a counter-revolutionary goal, as well as an imperialist one (the psychological impression of impersonal power by the authorities).

    Despite these perhaps unpleasant motivations (counter-revolution, inhuman displays of imperialist power), Paris has a beautiful architecture and city plan, with its cold uniformity, impersonal elegance, monumentalist display of imperial power, and demonstration of modern engineering and organization.
    -


    There has been the great historical loss from the destruction of the old Paris. But there has been now also enough intervening time that the new Paris has now developed historical "charm".

    I think the historical epoch of Paris that we most relate to nowadays, is more 1950s Paris (with the postwar American influence), than the 19th century Paris - because this former is the one we know from the cinema.


    London is the more interesting – because more fantastic
     
    London was attacked a lot by bombs in the Second World War. And then later there has much disruption of the historical texture by the introduction of highways and overpasses.

    I agree that it is still a wonderful, historical atmosphere city. Many of the beautiful areas were only constructed in the 19th century though.

    Some of these areas are not older than Haussmann's Paris For example, this is all imperialist architecture from the final third of the 19th century. It has even terrible acoustics. But it's surely one of the most beautiful concert halls in the world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv_gsGLl404

    Replies: @melanf, @AaronB, @Mikel

    What is affordable for most buildings, is determined by the building technology of the time

    This strange idea is planted by “modern architects” to justify the ugliness of their creations

    The project of the National Library in Kazan. It is a pity that the authorities did not have the courage to implement this eclecticism

    • Agree: AP, AaronB
    • Replies: @melanf
    @melanf

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4f/ab/18/4fab185a7cc85164d8b12b32a26e080a.jpg

    https://s46.radikal.ru/i111/1006/b5/070d586055d1.jpg

    , @Dmitry
    @melanf


    strange idea is planted by “modern architects

     

    Not it's not a strange idea of architects. Everyone who buys a building knows what they can afford, and what would cost them extra.

    Today even windows, doors, etc, are many produced in factories in China, because the shapes are so regular in every country. If you want to buy something unusual you can, but it requires a decision to pay for it (and its customized parts).

    As for "architects" - most buildings does not involve architects. They need an engineer to calculate the design, measurements, according to the building code and physics.

    The result of the modern, rapid construction method is not aesthetically attractive. However, it requires low labour intensity, and cheap, space efficient, rapid construction.

    They follow almost an algorithm (I believe the construction organizer even use a flowchart) in modern construction.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfKA3OY7IWs


    project of the National Library in Kazan
     
    And in Tehran they have some "artistic" creation from an architect.

    https://unusualtraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/IMG_7886-01-2.jpg

    But what Tehran is actually looking like is square buildings. (Architects was not involved, just the modern construction method).

    https://www.mei.edu/sites/default/files/Tehran%2520Cityscape.jpg

    Same in Tokyo.

    https://i.imgur.com/xMl7Gs7.jpg

    Same Santiago Chile.


    https://cdn.britannica.com/32/138732-050-441F3C4A/Santiago-Chile.jpg

    Even Helsinki, etc.

    https://scwcontent.affino.com/AcuCustom/Sitename/DAM/021/flats_in_Helsinki_aerial_Adobe.jpg

    It looks unattractive, but the priority of a building, for most people that buy them, are the use of the building, not its visuality

    Today it was still possible to reconstruct traditional architecture (don't post Yoshkar-Ola, which are extremely low quality imitation) - if you want to invest billions of dollars, and begin multi-decade projects that included consultations of historians and training of craftsmen.

    Dresden New Market and cathedral has been completed this century, but they have expended billions on the projects.
    https://i.imgur.com/UK0PsmY.jpg


    In 1990s it was
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em6CWVCJVR8

    After an amazing construction process they have built
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n4Oo5myIhc

    Replies: @Dmitry

  • @Mr. Hack
    @GMC


    Crimean society hasn’t changed with regards to human rights, no racial crimes are being committed, and the choice of language, religion, business, freedoms have not been altered. And I hope it stays this way.
     
    If what you say is true, how is it that today there are no active Ukrainian churches nor schools in Crimea, where at one time there were? I think that you're probably a good intentioned person, who is perfectly satisfied living in a Russian cultural milieu, that is certainly prevalent in Crimea today, and just doesn't know about the persecution of remaining Ukrainians living in Crimea. You certainly wouldn't be exposed to this type of information watching officially sanctioned Crimean TV, newspapers or radio. The last Crimean Ukrainian language newspaper was closed about a year ago. I'm not sure how your access capabilities are in Crimea (probably not very hampered), so if you google in "persecution of Ukrainian people and its culture in Crimea" you'll find a lot of information that you're obviously not aware of. Here are a couple of entries I'd recommend that you read:

    https://khpg.org/en/1504187187

    https://en.hromadske.ua/posts/exclusive-the-true-cost-of-remaining-ukrainian-in-crimea

    https://risu.ua/en/ukraine-to-impose-sanctions-on-persons-who-persecute-citizens-on-religious-grounds-in-crimea-and-donbas_n112241

    Replies: @Mr. Hack, @melanf, @GMC

    If what you say is true, how is it that today there are no active Ukrainian churches nor schools in Crimea, where at one time there were?

    Because in Crimea, the population does not speak Ukrainian and has never spoken Ukrainian. Under Ukraine, “Ukrainian churches and schools” were forcibly imposed when the Ukrainian rule ended – they instantly disappeared.

    • Agree: Mikhail
    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    There were (unless they were driven out) enough of some small percentage of people in Crimea to support a small number of Ukrainian schools and churches. If there are zero now, this reflects a political decision rather than lack of a market.

    Replies: @melanf

  • @Weaver
    @melanf

    The first I’ve heard of that nation.

    The Sumerians would agree with me. Grain gives calories, little more. Cabbage and carrots are nutritious, but meat and dairy are also important. You can grow strong on meat. Greenlanders eat mostly just meat.

    Replies: @melanf, @A123

    The Sumerians would agree with me. Grain gives calories, little more. Cabbage and carrots are nutritious, but meat and dairy are also important.

    The Assyrians followed the same diet as the Sumerians. And the Assyrians were among the most successful (and most terrible) warriors in history

  • @AP
    @melanf

    https://s50.radikal.ru/i129/1606/48/ecbd42523792.jpg

    http://healingheartsbalkans.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Children-with-gloves-525x393.jpg

    She is cleaner and better dressed.

    Replies: @melanf

    Ha

  • @AP
    @melanf

    It's the Indian facial features, not only eye and hair color (which may be dyed). Mamun:

    https://vestikavkaza.ru/upload/fbig/nvk/2015_Jun/Margarita-Mamun-%E2%80%93-chempionka-Evroigr-v-uprazhnenii-s-obruchem-1.jpg

    https://s2.cdn.teleprogramma.pro/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/762a891297b270de0941b4f42c23526a.jpg

    Roma:

    https://www.cesr.org/sites/default/files/roma_woman_and_child_osce.jpg

    Mamun, of course, has the physique of an Olympic athlete.

    You are correct that there is a resemblance to Zagitova.

    Replies: @melanf, @Coconuts

    I clicked the mouse and Yandex found a lot of similar photos. But I didn’t find any gypsies among them

  • @Weaver
    @Almost Missouri

    Not rare. Sumerians conquered by herders. Aryans in India I think were herders. Iron Age white conquerors of Europe, eg Dorians of Greece like Sparta, were more primitive. Mongols conquered China.

    You get poor nutrition from agriculture but more kids. Farmers can make good workers but might not stay in charge.

    Chaos vs order.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @melanf, @snapple

    The Chukchi (hunters of large sea animals) kept the entire eastern Arctic in terror. If there were agricultural tribes near them, they would probably force them to pay tribute

    You get poor nutrition from agriculture but more kids. Farmers can make good workers but might not stay in charge.

    This statement would probably have amazed all sorts of Goths, Franks, vandals and similar classical barbarians

    • Replies: @Weaver
    @melanf

    The first I’ve heard of that nation.

    The Sumerians would agree with me. Grain gives calories, little more. Cabbage and carrots are nutritious, but meat and dairy are also important. You can grow strong on meat. Greenlanders eat mostly just meat.

    Replies: @melanf, @A123

    , @Morton's toes
    @melanf

    Eskimo archers?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_archery

  • @Dmitry
    @melanf

    Nikki Haley (Nikki Randhawa before marriage) is Indian Sikh, and looks like a stereotypical American housewife (i.e. Italian-American, Jewish-American, Greek-American housewives).

    This is the Indians from latitude 25-35° can have light skin when not in summer.

    Although if you have met Indian people in real life, you notice the eyes (same also with Iranians, Armenians, etc) is different to European people, and Haley has a kind of stereotypical Indian eyes.
    https://i.imgur.com/0rJFxsd.jpg

    But her (I guess half-India) daughter looks more stereotypical European face, with stereotypical Indian skin.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/COMGNo_h3KY/

    Replies: @Dmitry, @melanf, @snapple

    This is the Indians from latitude 25-35° can have light skin when not in summer.

    Parents of Margarita Mamun. I don’t know if Margarita’s father can be considered light-skinned (by Indian standards)

    It is curious that if you look at children’s photos, Margarita Mamun, depending on the background, looks like a typical Indian child or a typical European child

    • Replies: @AP
    @melanf

    https://s50.radikal.ru/i129/1606/48/ecbd42523792.jpg

    http://healingheartsbalkans.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Children-with-gloves-525x393.jpg

    She is cleaner and better dressed.

    Replies: @melanf

    , @Dmitry
    @melanf

    Her father looks like one of an "African looking Indian" kind of people.

    I know Indians in real life, and some of the people look more like Europeans, and others are more like Africans. Probably - India is like they say about China, more of a continent than a country.

    India might not be so much like a single nationality, but a complex of many different nationalities.

    -

    Mostly my experience is that Indian culture is that they mostly superficially friendly, charming and responsive people (which reminds you of extroverted culture of Italians, Irish, Jews, Spanish, Poles, Mexicans etc) - but then unlike Italians, Irish, Jews, Spanish, Poles, Mexicans etc, Indian culture people often does not want to socialize outside of an office.

    I wonder if this more typical of third world countries' culture where people traditionally socialized with their religious, family and tribal circles, and still feel cautious about outsiders.

    Also they are mostly charming people (like Italians, Irish, Jews, Spanish, Polish etc), but the Indian workers are talking a lot about themselves. This is beyond the European normal level of talking about yourself. (But Americans can be like this too though, so not perhaps only part of the third world countries' culture)

    Replies: @Kuru

  • @melanf
    @AP


    She has the facial features typical of roma
     
    Definitely this statement does not correspond to reality (unless you count the dark eyes and hair as exclusively gypsy appearance)

    https://img2.ntv.ru/home/news/20171104/mamun_io.jpg

    https://www.peoples.ru/images/interesting/interesting_2019123114214819.jpeg

    http://i43-cdn.woman.ru/womanru/images/gallery/8/2/g_82cb71c7d51470587bf76a3fbc8d7ca2_8_800x600.jpg?02

    Mamun has an unusual face but it does not look like a gypsy
    Mamun bears a strange resemblance to another Olympic champion-Alina Zagitova (who comes from the Kazan Tatars).
    https://images11.cosmopolitan.ru/upload/img_cache/7b1/7b1ea67f947903cabb72b349e69a4550_cropped_1280x1600.jpg

    Replies: @melanf, @Dmitry, @AP

    An interesting genetic curiosity – the son of this Mamun has a purely “Nordic” appearance. Although it may get darker with time.

  • @AP
    @Levtraro

    She has the facial features typical of roma, nothing special. You can just look for a gypsy girl that happens to be thin and not be poor and dirty from being on the streets:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/4d/ce/234dcec50bbcb7c46ca49752731ba64c.jpg

    https://jezminavonthiele.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/jezminacards.jpg?w=624

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dq_H1X9W4AEoKQF.jpg

    https://64.media.tumblr.com/95c6e59bceb2040c920285b933ac02cf/tumblr_nu4gwgAuur1uy7q4so1_540.png

    Replies: @melanf

    She has the facial features typical of roma

    Definitely this statement does not correspond to reality (unless you count the dark eyes and hair as exclusively gypsy appearance)

    Mamun has an unusual face but it does not look like a gypsy
    Mamun bears a strange resemblance to another Olympic champion-Alina Zagitova (who comes from the Kazan Tatars).

    • Agree: Aedib
    • Replies: @melanf
    @melanf

    An interesting genetic curiosity - the son of this Mamun has a purely "Nordic" appearance. Although it may get darker with time.

    https://mtdata.ru/u28/photoD145/20796977508-0/original.jpg

    , @Dmitry
    @melanf

    Nikki Haley (Nikki Randhawa before marriage) is Indian Sikh, and looks like a stereotypical American housewife (i.e. Italian-American, Jewish-American, Greek-American housewives).

    This is the Indians from latitude 25-35° can have light skin when not in summer.

    Although if you have met Indian people in real life, you notice the eyes (same also with Iranians, Armenians, etc) is different to European people, and Haley has a kind of stereotypical Indian eyes.
    https://i.imgur.com/0rJFxsd.jpg

    But her (I guess half-India) daughter looks more stereotypical European face, with stereotypical Indian skin.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/COMGNo_h3KY/

    Replies: @Dmitry, @melanf, @snapple

    , @AP
    @melanf

    It's the Indian facial features, not only eye and hair color (which may be dyed). Mamun:

    https://vestikavkaza.ru/upload/fbig/nvk/2015_Jun/Margarita-Mamun-%E2%80%93-chempionka-Evroigr-v-uprazhnenii-s-obruchem-1.jpg

    https://s2.cdn.teleprogramma.pro/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/762a891297b270de0941b4f42c23526a.jpg

    Roma:

    https://www.cesr.org/sites/default/files/roma_woman_and_child_osce.jpg

    Mamun, of course, has the physique of an Olympic athlete.

    You are correct that there is a resemblance to Zagitova.

    Replies: @melanf, @Coconuts