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Sandgroper
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    In Washington, where the rice paddies of self-importance are nourished with the night soil of mendacity, columnists are viewed with the seriousness properly reserved for lung cancer. This is ridiculous. Columnists, the rodent class of journalism, have the dignity of carney barkers and merit the social standing of bellhops. It’s a living. For most of...
  • Apology for serial posting – aside from the above piece of pedantry (born that way; can’t help it), I love this column. I love the idea of a columnist attacking himself. And I definitely want to use “microcephalic lemur” some time. May I?

    • Replies: @utu
    @Sandgroper

    In Boulder CO there is a street named Table Mesa.

    , @utu
    @Sandgroper

    In Boulder CO there is a street named Table Mesa.

    Or there is something called chai tea while chai is just another name for the same tea.

    Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

  • Just an editorial point, Fred – “padi” or “paddy” means unmilled rice – so “rice paddies” means “rice rice”. Not your fault, it’s a very common Americanism – people think it makes them sound in the know to say “rice paddies”, but it don’t. Better to write “paddy fields” aka “padi fields” = fields in which rice is grown. Get this right and you will be smarter than 99% of American writers, who don’t know sh*t.

  • Not even a week in Moscow, and I get contacted by a Zvezda TV journalist requesting an interview about life in America and why I returned to Russia. In a deserted billiards room, I began talking about my theory that there is a civility-friendliness spectrum, with Britain on one end of it, Russia on the...
  • And the new vaccine also protects against Streptococcus pneumoniae (the most common cause of ‘community acquired pneumonia’ – that is, in the 50% of cases where they can actually identify a causative agent). Sorry, I keep forgetting things. I did mention that I am a biological idiot, didn’t I? That might explain why I chose to breed my own in-house biological expert, so she can explain things to me when she feels like it, although I can’t escape the feeling that she talks to me as if I am a child in kindergarten. I had better get used to it – she has been doing it since she was 9 years old, and it can only get worse from this point.

    So, the pneumonia one-shot vaccine is not a panacea. But it’s a lot better than nothing and, for the sake of one simple injection, when my doctor (himself a gentleman of very advanced years who had already injected himself with it) recommended I have it, I jumped at it.

    My late mother used to refer to pneumonia as ‘the old people’s friend’ because it kills so many geriatrics ‘quietly’ as it were. To hell with that; I want to go out with my boots on, not lying in some hospital full of tubes and gradually blacking out due to lack of oxygen supply to the brain. I’m not optimistic that I’ll get my wish at this point, though.

  • @German_reader
    @Sandgroper

    "Last year, I also had the latest once in a lifetime pneumonia vaccination, again with no detectable adverse effects."

    Haven't heard about those, is this now becoming standard or recommended? My father will be 70 this year, might be relevant for him.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Yes, it is the new standard, and my general practitioner (what Americans call primary care doctor) recommended to me that I have it. There was a previous version, also a once in a lifetime shot, but this is claimed to be more effective. It needs to be understood that there are many possible causative agents for pneumonia, but the majority of cases (in which the causative agent can be identified) are caused by a few viruses, and this inoculates against those.

    Definitely recommended for your Dad. He should ask his doctor about it.

    The weird thing about pneumonia is that in about half of all cases, the causative agent cannot be identified – by the time the blood tests/cultures are done, the causative agent has done its work and has disappeared.

  • @Sam J.
    @Sandgroper

    "...I don’t understand why people don’t just get an annual influenza vaccination..."

    I used to get these but I'm not convinced they are not more dangerous than the flu itself. I have no problem with vaccine theory or the belief that vaccines can be beneficial. I have a problem with companies putting out, what I believe to be, substandard, dirty, additive filled and possibly ineffective vaccines. I believe that Ronald Regan signing into law that they can't be sued is the reason this is so. Leading to quality control problems.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    I can’t say anything about them being substandard, dirty or additive filled, because I know of absolutely no evidence either for or against. But I have a very substantial body of evidence in my own case that the annual influenza vaccination has been highly effective in almost all years, and in a couple of years when it did not provide complete protection, I suffered only a very mild dose of ‘flu, indicating that it was still providing partial protection. During periods when a large % of the people working in the densely populated office that I work in were coming into work while obviously suffering heavily from the symptoms of influenza, I have remained free of infection. During periods when both my wife and daughter, sharing a small apartment with me, have been suffering heavily from influenza, I have remained free of infection; this despite the fact that my wife was preparing my meals, and that we were obviously in close contact. My wife and daughter are now both so convinced of the effectiveness of the vaccinations that they now both get them, despite the fact that previously my wife was very resistant to the idea.

    Contrast my experience since being regularly vaccinated to the whole of my life prior to that time – I could guarantee that I would come down with a heavy dose of influenza at last twice every winter, and sometimes more than twice.

    Further, I have never felt any kind of adverse effect from having an annual vaccination at least once every year for over 15 years, and sometimes two vaccinations in a single year, if I happen to be travelling between northern and southern hemispheres. Last year, I also had the latest once in a lifetime pneumonia vaccination, again with no detectable adverse effects.

    I am now heading into the age bracket when influenza can easily be fatal. The vaccines would need to be really ‘dangerous’ to be worse than dying from influenza. The Government health authorities where I live recommend that susceptible people should be vaccinated, and they have no axe to grind (I don’t live in America or any particularly America-friendly place). I guess it depends on what you define as ‘dangerous’.

    Not wishing to be offensive, but in the absence of any evidence to support your statements, I currently have you pencilled in as a paranoid conspiracy theorist. Sorry. Come up with some hard, rigorous scientific evidence and I will reevaluate. Until then, my own long personal experience, and now the experience of my wife and daughter as well, not to mention that of several of my work colleagues, some of whom are of advanced age, is going to continue to override a few vague comments from some anonymous person on the Internet.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Sandgroper

    "Last year, I also had the latest once in a lifetime pneumonia vaccination, again with no detectable adverse effects."

    Haven't heard about those, is this now becoming standard or recommended? My father will be 70 this year, might be relevant for him.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • Apology for serial posting and being a bit OT, and Anatoly can tell me to shut up any time he likes and I will, but I don’t understand why people don’t just get an annual influenza vaccination. If most people did it, the herd immunity would be enough to prevent seasonal influenza epidemics.

    I keep reading stuff about how the vaccinations don’t work, how they have harmful effects, how it’s better to develop immunity, etc., but based on my own experience, that is all wrong. OK, N=1, but I have been having an annual ‘flu shot every year for at least the past 15 years, and sometimes an extra shot when I go back to Australia (the prevalent ‘flu strains in the northern and southern hemispheres being somewhat out of step), and my clear recall is that in that 15+ years, I have caught the ‘flu precisely twice, both times only mildly. Before I started having an annual jab, I could be certain to come down with a bad dose of ‘flu at least twice every winter, sometimes more, and occasionally off-season as well, and each dose of ‘flu would mean at least two weeks of feeling awful, not being able to exercise, working ability compromised, etc. My wife and daughter (who is a Biologist – she majored in Biochemistry and Genetics) are now both so convinced of the benefit that they also now have ‘flu vaccinations.

    As for developing immunity, it’s just not true. The ‘flu viruses mutate all the time, so the immunity you acquire from getting a dose of the ‘flu lasts for about three weeks, after which you can be infected by the same virus all over again.

    And I have never had an adverse reaction to the vaccine; not once; not even feeling mildly off-colour.

    If anyone has different experience, I would be interested to read about it. My experience of ‘flu vaccinations is wholly positive, and yet I keep seeing all this stuff on the Internet discouraging people from having them. Yes, I know some small children have suffered bad effects and some have died, but I’m talking about adults.

    I never get common colds. Doesn’t happen. The ‘flu vaccine doesn’t protect against those, but I just never get them. No idea why. I know of people (admittedly living in northern Europe, not southern China) who seem to get them all the time.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Sandgroper

    "I don’t understand why people don’t just get an annual influenza vaccination."

    I get them every year in autumn, and I'm only in my early 30s.
    Anti-vaccination sentiments seem to be widespread mostly among "progressives", Greens etc., i.e. people whose connection to reality might be tenuous anyway.

    Replies: @iffen

    , @Sam J.
    @Sandgroper

    "...I don’t understand why people don’t just get an annual influenza vaccination..."

    I used to get these but I'm not convinced they are not more dangerous than the flu itself. I have no problem with vaccine theory or the belief that vaccines can be beneficial. I have a problem with companies putting out, what I believe to be, substandard, dirty, additive filled and possibly ineffective vaccines. I believe that Ronald Regan signing into law that they can't be sued is the reason this is so. Leading to quality control problems.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • Sorry, Wikipedia tells me I should be talking about viral particles called virions, not virus molecules. I always was lousy at Biology, mostly because I always found the genetics of plants too boring to get past.

  • : Here you go – this gives it to you.

    Note that the units are micrometres, and the scale is logarithmic. So some airborne particulates are smaller than single virus molecules, and a lot of them are smaller than bacteria molecules. And with airborne viruses, we’re talking about droplets, not single molecules.

  • @Wizard of Oz
    @Sandgroper

    I am interested in your statement that the dangerous particulates in polluted air are so fine that the face masks are useless to protect against Chinese cities' pollution. Can you please substantiate that? Are the particulates smaller than bacteria? Smaller even than viruses like the SARS virus?

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Delinquent Snail

    Not offhand, and I don’t feel like digging, but they’re very small – like a few microns. The ordinary masks that most people buy in pharmacies won’t filter them out. Slightly tangential, but if you are a quarry worker, for example, you don’t wear a mask like that because it won’t be good enough to filter out the fine silica particles that give people silicosis. You need a much more effective filter. HSE authorities don’t accept such masks as adequate protection for people working in such dusty environments.

    Airborne viruses are transmitted person to person mostly by droplets, like the cloud of droplets that someone emits when sneezing. For a person suffering from such a virus, wearing a mask will intercept the droplets – which are obviously a lot bigger than a single virus molecule – so wearing such a mask will be effective in preventing an infected person from infecting other people. So it’s not the size of a single virus molecule that is relevant in this case, but the size of the airborne droplets carrying the virus.

    Doctors have told me that wearing such a mask to prevent exposure are pretty much a waste of time, because the droplets only need to land on any mucous membrane, including around the eyes, which are not protected by the mask.

    The other consideration is fomites – viruses survive on such surfaces for surprisingly long periods of time, particularly at colder temperatures (which is why winter is normally peak ‘flu season). People pick up viruses on their hands by touching such surfaces, and then rub their eyes, or touch their noses or mouths, and transmit virus to themselves that way.

    Again, I have been told by doctors (and again, this is just anecdotal) that the masks worn by surgeons are much more effective (and a lot harder to breathe through) than the masks commonly worn by people in the street. Even then, the surgeon is wearing the mask to avoid infecting the patient, not the other way round.

    Masks didn’t save the doctors and nurses treating SARS patients in Hong Kong. Many of them contracted SARS and died. That was before they realised they needed to be wearing full containment suits to protect themselves.

    The health authorities in Hong Kong advise people suffering from virus infections to wear a mask when they go out, because they are effective in preventing or at least reducing transmission. They don’t recommend that people wear masks to prevent themselves from being infected, because they know it’s a waste of time.

  • @German_reader
    "Possibly related: I see a few people with face masks everyday. I approve of this East Asian tradition. If you really have to go out while ill, at least make an effort to avoid transmitting it."

    I always thought people used those masks because they were afraid of catching germs themselves...but now that I think about it, your explanation obviously makes a lot more sense. Seems like I didn't give Asians enough credit for caring about the common weal.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Wizard of Oz, @Che Guava

    See my comment at 4. You were partly right. Different Asians do it for different reasons.

  • Deconstructing the East Asian face mask thing: Chinese wear face masks in public when they are suffering from influenza, to avoid infecting other people; or more likely, to avoid being called out publicly for not wearing one while obviously infectious. Whatever – the social pressure works. Japanese wear them to avoid catching influenza from other people.

    It’s not really what you might expect, given the respective stereotypes about ‘social responsibility’.

    Face mask wearing by the Chinese to prevent spreading infection was previously unknown, but really kicked in after the SARS epidemic in 2003, whereas the Japanese have been doing it as a defence against being infected for as long as I can remember.

    Of course, now many people in the Chinese Mainland wear them as an attempted defence against chronically bad air quality, but it’s futile – the damaging respirable particulates are so fine that they pass straight through, as do the gases like oxides of nitrogen and sulphur dioxide, obviously.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    @Sandgroper

    I am interested in your statement that the dangerous particulates in polluted air are so fine that the face masks are useless to protect against Chinese cities' pollution. Can you please substantiate that? Are the particulates smaller than bacteria? Smaller even than viruses like the SARS virus?

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Delinquent Snail

  • Carl Zimmer links to a subway-style map of human origins according to an Estonian team of geneticists. Papuans are New Guineans. Note, while this kind of thing is getting more definitive, it's still subject to change. The latest reports disagree at the margins. Zimmer writes in the NYT: Examining their data separately, all three groups...
  • @Wilkey
    @415 reasons

    "There was an interesting Aboriginal Australian paper out in Nature today with the required politically correct comment piece accompanying it."

    Not sure if the p.c. piece included the quotes I read, which basically could be summed up as "Australian aborigines are descended from bold, brave, remarkable adventurers who far surpassed any other early human "explorers"...and then sat on their asses after arriving in Australia and chewed their cud.

    What it comes down to is that once they arrived in Australia these 'bold adventurers' did nothing for ~50,000 years.

    Replies: @Pat Hannagan, @Sandgroper, @IBC

    They survived, and avoided inbreeding. In most Australian environments, that takes some doing.

    • Replies: @Bernardista
    @Sandgroper

    Moieties

    They had a really complex kinship system which they used to determine who a clan member may marry, which makes that 60 IQ a bit suspicious as does the fact that they managed to outwit an ice age.
    http://www.aboriginalculture.com.au/socialorganisation.shtml

    Replies: @The most deplorable one

  • The U.S. women upset the Jamaicans in the 4 x 100 meter sprint relay tonight. One of the things you notice about African-American sprinters is that they tend to look like they are very African by ancestry, more so than the average African-American, even though track and field is traditionally something of a Talented Tenth...
  • It will not have escaped your eagle eye, Steve, that Allyson Felix is now the most decorated female American track and field athlete of all time, surpassing Jackie Joyner-Kersee.

    She didn’t get first place in the individual 400m through just sheer bad luck – the Bahaman lady dived over the line and just edged Allyson into second.

    Not bad for someone nicknamed “Chicken Legs” at school.

  • Russia is surprisingly mediocre at the beautiful game. What makes this at first sight all the more surprising is that Russia is hardly a slouch when it comes to many other sports. It is consistently in the top three at the Summer Olympics, beaten out only by the US and China with their much larger...
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    @Thorfinnsson

    Can't believe you haven't posted this excellent map yet.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    On that map, red could also stand for countries that have killed people during space flight due to silly engineering oversights.

  • @Thorfinnsson
    @Andrei Martyanov

    It's unacceptable to Americans that our own government prefers a foreign system of measurement. While popular opposition did succeed in preventing the government from imposing the metric system in the 1970s (unlike the other Anglo countries, all of which have fallen to the metric darkness), the government has adopted the metric system for its own internal purposes.

    The Olympic Games are a global competition. Most of the world uses the metric system, so there's nothing objectionable about Olympic events being denominated in metric units. What is objectionable is how in the past generation or so purely domestic contest in America have moved from English to metric units with some exceptions.

    Kilo, mega, giga, tera etc. are not multiples of 10^n in data. A megabyte is 1,024 kilobytes, not 1,000.

    There is no need to evangelize to me about the benefits of base 10. There are many benefits to the metric system, but we have our own system of measurement that we are comfortable with.

    People living in this country should assimilate, which means among other things saying soccer and using the term football to describe a rather different game.

    No doubt you are a foreigner and in your own country you have your own way of doing things. That's fine, perhaps you can recognize that so do we.

    Replies: @Andrei Martyanov, @Anatoly Karlin, @Mark Eugenikos, @Sandgroper

    Americans call them English units. The English call them Imperial units. I’m just saying.

  • Will be happening tomorrow. Unlike with the debate on open borders, which we won, I am far more skeptical of our c
  • No one yet has invented a 3D printer that makes live bullets – the hard part is the propellant. Guns are just delivery devices.

  • Some populations are more adapted to vegetarianism than others. Kothapalli, Kumar et al. - 2016 - Positive selection on a regulatory insertion-deletion polymorphism in FADS2 influences apparent endogenous synthesis of arachidonic acid: Long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (LCPUFA) are bioactive components of membrane phospholipids and serve as substrates for signaling molecules. LCPUFA can be obtained...
  • @jimmyriddle
    @Sandgroper

    3 day and 5 day cricket is what really counts.

    T20 isn't really cricket in any meaningful sense and the IPL is a shortsighted atrocity - it's killing the future audience for the real game.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Agreed, but the IPL illustrates the passion that Indians have for the sport, which is the point I was trying to make in response to the contention that Indians are not interested in sports.

  • @Anonymous
    @Glossy

    Countries with lots of Olympic medals have tended to be wealthy countries with lots of idle time to spend on sports, and communist countries with large state sports programs. South Asia has been neither. I don't think South Asia is much different in athletic ability compared to, say, France or China just because the latter have won more Olympic medals.

    South Asians in the West who grow up eating a Western diet and workout religiously like many young Westerners do don't seem to differ significantly physically compared to native Westerners.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @JohnnyWalker123

    Higher body fat content. It’s genetic. The interesting question is why, but no one knows. Yet.

  • @jimmyriddle
    @Sandgroper

    "currently India has the world’s best cricket team, no question"

    No question? If you are talking about test cricket I think it's South Africa, but there isn't much in it. And England and Australia are not far off.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    I meant taking all forms of the game as a whole, and making a value judgement. India’s poor last test tour of Australia was an aberration. We Australians are difficult to play on home soil because we’re just so damned unpleasant about it.

    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    @Sandgroper

    3 day and 5 day cricket is what really counts.

    T20 isn't really cricket in any meaningful sense and the IPL is a shortsighted atrocity - it's killing the future audience for the real game.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • Yet another study that confirms the Red Pill narrative on gender relations: Schmitt, David et al. - 2016 - Personality and gender differences in global perspective - This stands to reason. There is
  • @Lion of the Judah-sphere
    Sandgroper doesn't know what he's talking about. What's a first degree in engineering, and where in America do they offer that? A bachelor's degree, together with passing the Professional Engineering exam, will allow one to be a professional engineer in America. And Steve Hsu's has done studies showing that an IQ of 115-120 is necessary to achieve mastery of undergraduate mathematics/physics in typical North America universities-- meaning that's there's likely people who major in those areas who have IQs much lower than that.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    You are confusing state licensing with professional qualification.

    And a first engineering degree is self-explanatory unless your English comprehension is defective. In a lot of Anglo countries it will be called a bachelor’s degree, but this is not universal.

    And what made you think I was talking only about America? The Washington Accord is about international mobility of engineers. The company I work for has over 100,000 staff all over the globe, including in Russia and China, and we need to be mobile. And no, I won’t give you the name of the company.

    As it has become clear that I am talking to a brick wall, I am going to stop.

  • Some populations are more adapted to vegetarianism than others. Kothapalli, Kumar et al. - 2016 - Positive selection on a regulatory insertion-deletion polymorphism in FADS2 influences apparent endogenous synthesis of arachidonic acid: Long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (LCPUFA) are bioactive components of membrane phospholipids and serve as substrates for signaling molecules. LCPUFA can be obtained...
  • @Glossy
    @Sandgroper

    India, Pakistan and Bangladesh have gotten very, very few Olympic medals over the years. It's just a ridiculously low number. South Asian immigrants to Western countries aren't prominent in sports either.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    Come to Hong Kong and I will show you around the cricket clubs, the Indian sporting clubs and some of my Hindu tennis buddies. Some of the Indian sporting clubs date right back to the early days of HK as a British colony, when Sikhs were imported to serve as civilian police, and they have stayed ever since. And Indians are not small in the worlds of high finance, banking and high tech.

    Oh, and field hockey. They are absolute demons at field hockey.

    They are very prominent in sports in Hong Kong. But they don’t play football.

    Training for sports costs money, and expensive facilities. I am not surprised that India under-achieves in international competition.

  • @Numinous
    @Sandgroper

    Wrestling (pehelwani in Hindi) has been a popular sport in rural India since times immemorial. In the recent past, some of the handful of medals India has got in the Olympics have been in weightlifting and wrestling. Also in target shooting, though that's neither here nor there.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Yes, of course you are right. And you have also reminded me that India has some fearsome traditional martial arts.

  • Yet another study that confirms the Red Pill narrative on gender relations: Schmitt, David et al. - 2016 - Personality and gender differences in global perspective - This stands to reason. There is
  • You can’t compare degrees that way. You obviously have no idea how much is involved in degree accreditation. And these days, a first degree in engineering in America will get you an engineering technician’s job, for which IQ of 115 could be possible. To gain professional qualification, you need at least a Master’s, plus minimum about 5 years post-university professional training – and not everybody gets through that either. To become a biomedical engineer in America you need a degree in engineering + a degree in medicine, and you don’t get that with an IQ of 115. Those numbers are worthless.

  • Some populations are more adapted to vegetarianism than others. Kothapalli, Kumar et al. - 2016 - Positive selection on a regulatory insertion-deletion polymorphism in FADS2 influences apparent endogenous synthesis of arachidonic acid: Long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (LCPUFA) are bioactive components of membrane phospholipids and serve as substrates for signaling molecules. LCPUFA can be obtained...
  • @Anatoly Karlin
    @Glossy

    A lot of people of people have said that this video is basically accurate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbiIu_EzuWk

    Northern Chinese are much taller, have more nomadic ancestry. Southern Chinese tend to be more beta.

    But, for whatever reason, they are less meat-adapted than southern Chinese (according to this). Maybe they do have an adaptation but through a different mechanism?

    OTOH, also worth noting that unlike in western Eurasia, agriculture in China began in the north and spread south. Presumably, the natives with whom the northern Han interbred with as they moved south would not have had any vegetarian adaptations whatsoever. That might also explain things.

    Replies: @Glossy, @Erik Sieven, @Sandgroper

    It’s not *that* accurate. Cantonese and Hakka women can be very fierce. Not such big drinkers, though. But some northerners can’t drink either due to lack of the enzyme to process the alcohol – that is not only confined to the south.

    Northern/eastern Chinese eat a lot of fish and dried seafood. (So, getting it inland is no problem – dried scallops, dried sea slugs, etc.)

    I don’t know what Steve Sailer is on about – Indians and Pakistanis are absolutely nuts about cricket, much more so than any other country. And all the Hindus I know are very good tennis players. They don’t pull their weight for the size of population in tennis, but they have had some top level players. And currently India has the world’s best cricket team, no question. True, they don’t go in for heavy contact sports.

    Incidentally, the Hindus I know tend to be vegetarian when they are ‘under observation’ by other Hindus, although some I know relax their food rules when they go away on holiday. I think at least notional vegetarianism is quite common among Hindus – just as vegetarianism is actually somewhat notional among self-professed vegetarians in the west.

    • Replies: @Numinous
    @Sandgroper

    Wrestling (pehelwani in Hindi) has been a popular sport in rural India since times immemorial. In the recent past, some of the handful of medals India has got in the Olympics have been in weightlifting and wrestling. Also in target shooting, though that's neither here nor there.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    , @Cattle Guard
    @Sandgroper

    I remember one Hindu guy in Eastern Europe, taking pictures of venison etc. at dinner. He said he'd tell his parents it was all lamb and chicken, which implied he was planning to brag to his friends that he got to eat rare and forbidden meats. He also really liked our forest mushrooms.

    , @Glossy
    @Sandgroper

    India, Pakistan and Bangladesh have gotten very, very few Olympic medals over the years. It's just a ridiculously low number. South Asian immigrants to Western countries aren't prominent in sports either.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Anonymous, @JohnnyWalker123

    , @jimmyriddle
    @Sandgroper

    "currently India has the world’s best cricket team, no question"

    No question? If you are talking about test cricket I think it's South Africa, but there isn't much in it. And England and Australia are not far off.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • Yet another study that confirms the Red Pill narrative on gender relations: Schmitt, David et al. - 2016 - Personality and gender differences in global perspective - This stands to reason. There is
  • Sorry, I see you are in Brazil, which is not a signatory to the Washington Accord, so you probably don’t understand what I’m talking about; in which case, forget it, but you might not want to comment on the standards of engineering degrees in states which are signatories.

    • Replies: @Rodolfo
    @Sandgroper

    The requirements for graduating as a mechanical engineer in Brazil are the same as in US and Germany, which are countries that many of my colleagues were working. Even the degree chart of Caltech, which I just searched is similar to the university where I graduated. See another estimate: http://anepigone.blogspot.com.br/2009/03/iq-estimates-by-intended-college-major.html . Even if half of those not get the degree, the estimate would grow from 108 to around 117. And that's the average. Students with less than this will graduate. And exactly what IQ tests you and daddy's girl did?

  • Further, if you are a professional engineer, you should be familiar with the requirements of the Washington Accord for first engineering degrees, including the requirement for a high content of higher mathematics and, in civil at least, physics and numerical analysis. Common sense alone should tell you that no one with an IQ of 115 is going to be able to cope with those requirements. That level of general intelligence would be more appropriate for someone working as an engineering technician, not as a professional engineer.

  • I have never believed those numbers. No one with an IQ as low as 115 would have got through a first degree in engineering at the university I attended, or any university that graduates civil engineers in Hong Kong. In any case, the competition to enrol in engineering in HK would exclude anyone with an IQ that low. I’m guessing that number came from first engineering degrees at American universities – even then I find it surprisingly low. In any case, it’s pretty outdated now.

    What can I say? My daughter and I have done the same IQ tests and she has consistently out-scored me by 3 to 5 points. But if you know that didn’t happen, I guess I must have imagined it.

  • @Rodolfo
    I do not know about the division between the genders in engineering classes in East Asia, but on standardized tests, the difference between men and women seems to be the same as in the West. Take for example the study "Sex differences in mental rotation and line angle judgments are positively associated with gender equality and economic development across 53 nations". The difference in visual spatial ability between men and women in China or Japan is basically the same as in the West.
    Or take the math / physics / informatics olympiads. The Chinese, Korean and Japanese teams follow the same Western pattern of being all male, with only a girl sporadically. Also, the difference in IQ test WAIS-R between men and women in Japan is 3.3 points (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886997800219), exactly the same observed in Spain for Collon et all.
    In KL Beals 1984's study , the most dimorphic racial groups in brain size were the East / North-Asians.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    You don’t need to be that smart to become an Engineer – an IQ of 135 will do it. There are any number of East Asian females who top that easily. My IQ is 140+ and my daughter tops me by 3 to 5 points – and she’s not that unusual. As it happens, she chose a career in Life Science, but with her academic results in Secondary School she could have creamed Engineering.

    The Big Three prestige professions in East Asia are Medicine, Law and Engineering, not because you need to be exceptionally bright, but because they pay very well. Having a higher IQ might earn you a career in Physics or Mathematics, but you’re going to be a pauper compared to people working in the Big Three. And some of them in turn probably wish they had pursued a career in banking and finance – not around 2008, but before and since.

    • Replies: @Rodolfo
    @Sandgroper

    Actually I am an engineer too :) . The average IQ of engineers should be something much lower than the number you quoted, something like 115. See http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/occupations.aspx. 135 should be the average IQ of a PhD, or an engineer of an elite college like MIT. Also, IQ tests are not precise enough to say that his daughter has 3 points more than you. In fact, if you remake the same IQ test, your score will differ by a large margin. When comparing large populations, it makes sense to say that one has 3 points more than the other, because the noise in the individual measurements cancel each other, as is done with image interpolation. But comparing two individuals, it makes little sense to say that one has 2-3 points more than the other because the test does not have this sensitivity.

  • Well (sorry, serial posting) I guess I could also add that the HK education system is a fierce meat-grinder that results in kids over-achieving academically (and the suicides of 22 secondary school students last year alone).

    I don’t know but imagine that the Macau education system is somewhat more relaxed. Plus they have the difficulty that they have to juggle teaching English, Portuguese and Chinese languages, whereas HK kids only (!) have to deal with learning both English and Chinese (Cantonese + Mandarin + written). Learning Chinese language is so burdensome that most of my daughter’s Chinese classmates dropped Chinese language at age 15 in favour of French. Why French? Because Vancouver – they figure French might be some use to them if/when they migrate to Canada – doubtful, but more use than Chinese.

  • @Anatoly Karlin
    @Sandgroper

    Curiously, PISA tests imply that Macau has a very low IQ (by East Asian standards).

    BTW, thanks for the indepth Australia anecdote.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Macau was colonised much earlier than Hong Kong, and there was much more mixing between the colonisers and the locals, resulting in the Macanese people who form a distinct ethnic group with their own unique cuisine and culture. Being bilingual and bi-literate in Cantonese/Chinese and Portuguese, they have tended to dominate the Macau civil service.

    Macau also had (African) slavery, which HK never did. In the Battle of Macau, which resulted in a crushing defeat for the invading Dutch, much of the fighting on the Portuguese side was done by African slaves. Wikipedia: “One black woman was even compared to the legendary baker-woman of Aljubarrota by a contemporary Jesuit for her incredible skill with a halberd during the battle.” I have to assume that there was interbreeding with slaves as well as between Portuguese and local Han Chinese, and that Macanese may have some African genetic component, although it is not visually obvious. It is evident in their cuisine, however, much of which is fiercely spicy.

    In HK, mixed marriages were much more rare, even up to today. The biracial population of HK is much smaller than the Macanese, and does not have any kind of separate cultural identity.

    That is the only explanation I can think of for why Macau should rank lower in mean IQ than HK or neighbouring Guangdong Province, Anatoly.

  • @attonn
    @Sandgroper

    That explains better than anything else why Hong Kong ( and other Chinese entities like Taiwan and Singapore) has the lowest birth rate in the world. Women there are focused on attaining engineering credentials, instead of "primitive stuff" like being a good mother. This will be detrimental to China in the long term.

    Also, it'd be interesting to see as to how many Chinese women actually work as engineers, instead of just receiving diploma and then staying at home watching sitcoms, or opting for a less demanding profession. I suspect that in the actual field of engineering , far less than 50 percent of workers are female. I'd be impressed if 20 percent were.

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat, @dcite, @Sandgroper

    Hong Kong is a very wealthy place. As with wealthy people in other modern developed economies like America, Hong Kong people choose to have small families. This is a very common part of the transition to a modern developed economy – it has happened in Japan and South Korea, and it is now happening in Mainland China, having already happened in Taiwan and Singapore.

    Unemployment in Hong Kong is around 3%. Most of the women graduating in Engineering end up working in the construction industry. When they want to have a child, they get pregnant, take 6 weeks maternity leave to have the child, and then return to work. In a region (HK being properly termed a region rather than a city) with a population of about 7 million, there are about 450,000 foreign contract workers, almost all of whom are female. They come principally from the Philippines, but also from Indonesia. They are employed as ‘domestic helpers’. They take care of the children during the day while the parents both work, with some input by grandmothers, aunts, etc. It is a system that works very well on the whole.

    Why you should think that China needs an even bigger population, I simply can’t imagine. As it makes the transition to a modern automated society, it needs fewer people, not more.

  • @bossel
    @bossel

    Sorry, that number was for Macao only, as it seems.
    Haven't found a proper statistic for the mainland, but 2 websites mentioned 40% female engineers. So Sandgroper's over 50% is perhaps not that far off.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Most of the engineers working in Macau are from Hong Kong. It is only a 45 minute high speed ferry ride away. Macau itself does not produce many ‘local’ engineers.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Sandgroper

    Curiously, PISA tests imply that Macau has a very low IQ (by East Asian standards).

    BTW, thanks for the indepth Australia anecdote.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • When I was young and single, we guys would gather around the water cooler to gossip, fart and giggle, and a lot of the other guys would talk about sex. One day one of the most voluble on the subject said to me very suspiciously “How come you never talk about sex?” I replied “Some of us just talk about it, some of us just do it. If you are doing it, you don’t need to talk about it.” He disliked my response, but I have a suspicion there is some of that going on in relation to gender equality – there is endless talk about gender equality in western liberal democracies, and relatively very little discussion of it in China – but the anecdotal evidence of my eyes tells me that gender equality is actually practised more in China than in countries where it is endlessly debated. Why talk endlessly about it if you are already doing it?

    Then there is what Razib refers to as ‘difference feminism’ – women demand the right to be a bunch of ditzes because they are female. You don’t see that in China at all. You do see it in Australia, everywhere you look.

    When I enrolled in Civil Engineering as an undergraduate in a good Australian university 50 years ago, out of 196 enrolees in Civil, Mechanical and Electrical Engineering combined, 3 were women. Four years later, 20 of us graduated (the remainder having failed or voluntarily dropped out) – 10 Civils, 5 Mechanicals and 5 Electricals. Of those, precisely 1 was a female, a Civil. She was the first female in history to graduate in Engineering from that university. I got an update on her recently – she’s still small, blonde and passingly good looking, and she’s still working as an Engineer; most of her career has been spent in the mining industry.

    Fast forward to today. I recently checked on the enrolments in Engineering at that university – 12% female (despite a great deal of talking about the need to attract more women into Engineering -well, I guess it’s progress of a sort). In Hong Kong (which you can take as a reasonable proxy for China in this case), at the leading university, the female enrolment in Engineering is about 50%. That’s not a fiddled result – I know, because I am engaged in Engineering degree accreditation, during which we scrutinise the student intake, among numerous other things. It is just the way it has worked out – take any group of school leavers bright enough to aspire to a prestigious profession like Engineering in Hong Kong, and about 50% of them will be women, just based on academic attainment in secondary school.

    In response to surveys in Australia, it turns out that the large majority of bright-enough young women prefer not to aspire to become Engineers (or Physicists or Mathematicians) because they just don’t want to. In Hong Kong, and China more broadly, they want to.

    Sorry to be so garrulous, but it’s a subject that has held my interest ever since I read “The Female Eunuch” as a teenager. I think I was born a feminist (in the sense that I believe in gender equality). I don’t remember a time when I wasn’t. Certainly I didn’t get it from parental influence – my mother never had a real paying job, never learned to drive a car, never learned to use a personal computer, and never owned a mobile phone.

    • Replies: @attonn
    @Sandgroper

    That explains better than anything else why Hong Kong ( and other Chinese entities like Taiwan and Singapore) has the lowest birth rate in the world. Women there are focused on attaining engineering credentials, instead of "primitive stuff" like being a good mother. This will be detrimental to China in the long term.

    Also, it'd be interesting to see as to how many Chinese women actually work as engineers, instead of just receiving diploma and then staying at home watching sitcoms, or opting for a less demanding profession. I suspect that in the actual field of engineering , far less than 50 percent of workers are female. I'd be impressed if 20 percent were.

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat, @dcite, @Sandgroper

    , @bossel
    @Sandgroper


    In Hong Kong (which you can take as a reasonable proxy for China in this case), at the leading university, the female enrolment in Engineering is about 50%.
     
    Don't know about HK, but in China it seems nowhere near 50%.
    Acc. to the UNESCO the percentage of female graduates in the PRC in "engineering, manufacturing & construction" was hovering around 15 % in 2010. Perhaps it has grown a bit since then, but probably not by much.
    http://www.unesco.org/new/fileadmin/MULTIMEDIA/HQ/ED/pdf/Atlas-chapter5-tertiary-education.pdf

    Replies: @bossel

    , @Digital Samizdat
    @Sandgroper


    In response to surveys in Australia, it turns out that the large majority of bright-enough young women prefer not to aspire to become Engineers (or Physicists or Mathematicians) because they just don’t want to. In Hong Kong, and China more broadly, they want to.
     
    Or, to add to what 'Snippet' above implied, maybe want has little to do with it; maybe women feel they have to. In the People's Republic of China, for example, I seriously doubt there are an abundance of jobs for 'gender studies' specialists, but since the country is an industrial power-house, I bet there are tons of jobs for engineers.
  • I've long been interested in the history of how the sporting press botched the steroids story so badly for so many years because it's instructive about much else. It was like a slow-motion car crash that unfolded in front of my eyes for many years. In Grantland last year, Bryan Curtis reconstructed several episodes from...
  • @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper

    My but you are obstinate. Topspin doesn't slow the ball down, it forces its trajectory downwards. The more power you have the more topspin you can generate, so again power matters, lol. (Which is not to say that power is the only that matters, which seems to be message you are receiving.)


    Venus Williams came reasonably close to beating John McEnroe in a practice match in singles when McEnroe and Sampras went down to see the child prodigy when she was 10 years old.
     
    God this made me laugh.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    You don’t understand the physics. Spin slows the velocity of the ball. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand anything.

    Just making mocking comments is not expressing any kind of useful opinion. John McEnroe has attested to what happened, several times. I don’t see any point in wasting my time in further discussion. Trading mockery doesn’t constitute a reasoned debate of facts.

    I measured my shoulders by the way, although I felt foolish doing it – 20″. Weeks before her 18th birthday, Serena Williams’ shoulders, as I saw them standing right behind her, were some inches broader than mine. I won’t risk inducing further pointless mockery by estimating how many inches – it was after all in 1998.

    I’m out. Don’t bother responding, I won’t see it. You have nothing to say that is worth reading.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper


    You don’t understand the physics. Spin slows the velocity of the ball. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand anything.
     
    Oh, I think it's quite clear who doesn't understand anything in this thread. "Slows the velocity of the ball" is meaningless without specifying what you're comparing that slowness to, and it's irrelevant to the point you were trying to make about the ball landing in play. The relevance of topspin is that it forces the ball downwards, meaning you can hit it as hard as you like as long as you impart sufficient topspin.
  • @silviosilver
    @Corvinus


    It’s [generating racquet speed] about technique.
     
    Good technique produces power more efficiently (same power, less effort) and effectively (more absolute power), but in the end it's still about power.

    Regarding Serena, there is enormous circumstantial evidence that she's juicing. Only a fool - or an ideologue - would plug his ears and refuse to consider it.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    To hit a tennis ball as hard as possible, so that it goes as fast as possible, you need to hit it flat, that is imparting no spin to the ball. Any spin you put on the ball is going to slow it down in flight. That’s just basic fluid mechanics.

    But to hit a tennis ball hard and dead flat from the baseline and keep it in the court, the geometry of court and the net dictate that you need to be very tall – like, Ivo Karlović tall. Otherwise you are going to hit the ball long. This is one of many major differences between tennis and baseball – in tennis you are trying to keep the ball inside the court, in baseball you are quite likely to be trying to hit it out of the ground.

    If you are not Ivo Karlović, to hit the ball hard and keep it in the court, you need to impart some spin to the ball – in particular, topspin. But that slows the ball in flight. The more topspin you put on the ball, the more it slows in flight. At some point, it becomes a self-defeating exercise, because the harder you hit the ball while applying topspin, the more the ball slows in flight – there is a limiting condition at which it is pointless to hit the ball any harder or put any more revolutions on it, because by the time it hits the ground it won’t be going any faster. Rafael Nadal has just about reached that critical point – there is no point hitting the ball any harder with any more topspin than he does.

    So having any more ‘power’ doesn’t help.

    Contrary to popular babble, Nadal is not hugely muscular – his left biceps are somewhat developed because he hits millions of balls in practice, during which he is repeatedly applying a huge amount of topspin to the ball. Most players can’t do what he does because they would dislocate their shoulder, the shoulder being a particularly unstable joint. When he takes his shirt off, he has the body of an athlete who trains a lot, with a pretty low body fat %, so his musculature is pretty well defined, but he is nowhere close to having the muscle mass of a body builder. Nowhere close.

    If you hit a slice, which is to impart backspin to the ball, then you definitely do not want to hit the ball too hard, because the effect of backspin is to hold the ball up in the air and make it float long. In that case, hitting the ball too hard will simply make your slice shot float long out of the court.

    Tennis is far more than being about ‘power’ and hitting the ball hard. For the large majority of players, developing more strength to hit the ball harder is not their problem; their problems are far more likely to be to hit the ball with more control, and to develop their technique better.

    Unless you have tried to learn to play tennis with a modern, light racquet with the very enlarged racquet heads that in use now, you probably are not intuitively capable of understanding this. Every rank beginner I have tried to teach to hit a topspin forehand to has had the same problem – they keep trying to hit the ball hard, and just keep hitting it out of the court. The first priority in tennis is to keep the ball in the court, otherwise it’s instantly point over.

    Tennis is not baseball, and your baseball logic does not work in tennis. Nor does it work in many other racquet sports, or even in cricket.

    If you persist in claiming there is a huge amount of ‘circumstantial’ evidence that Serena Williams is ‘juicing’, I invite you to identify some of it, aside simply from her physical measurements and the rank assumption that no woman could possibly be that shape unless she was taking banned substances. Just saying it must be so a million times does not make it so in the absence of any actual evidence that she ever has.

    Venus Williams came reasonably close to beating John McEnroe in a practice match in singles when McEnroe and Sampras went down to see the child prodigy when she was 10 years old. Do you want to tell me that Venus was taking performance enhancing supplements when she was 10?

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper

    My but you are obstinate. Topspin doesn't slow the ball down, it forces its trajectory downwards. The more power you have the more topspin you can generate, so again power matters, lol. (Which is not to say that power is the only that matters, which seems to be message you are receiving.)


    Venus Williams came reasonably close to beating John McEnroe in a practice match in singles when McEnroe and Sampras went down to see the child prodigy when she was 10 years old.
     
    God this made me laugh.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • @Corvinus
    "Recently USADA seems to have increased random testing. How can Williams still elude detection."

    Because there is no evidence that she is "juicin'". By now, the media or alternative media would have been reporting the rumors of her and/or her sister on the good stuff. So, until there is something of substance (heh), there is...no...story.

    "You generate fast racquet speed by generating power. The stronger you are the more power you generate."

    It's about technique.

    www.usta.com/Improve-Your-Game/Sport-Science/116178_Technique_Key_Factors_in_the_Development_of_Racket_Speed_in_the_Tennis_Serve

    "I’d pick her out of a crowd from a distance as someone most likely using. She has developed muscle well out of the range of normal for a woman and in ways that are fairly typical of female steroid use."

    You are stricken with confirmation bias. Seek professional help. Again, there is NO substantial proof that she has been on steroids. Why don't you do some investigate work and break open the story?

    "Besides there is no way Tennis would let their star performer get nailed with a positive test."

    In today's media age, that "secret" would have come out by now.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @silviosilver

    A voice of reason at last. We’re both in the wrong place.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Sandgroper

    Now who's being naive? You'd be amazed what secrets can be hidden and for decades. Take DC. There's plenty of secrets that we ordinary citizens have no idea about what's going on in the halls of power.

    Also, Serena has an additional card to play should anyone in the tennis media get too curious: The Race Card, and don't think she won't play it if she has to. She has at times gone to it on minor issues. More of a not so subtle threat to go full trump. But if its an issue that could effect her livelihood? She'd use it, and that would be more than enough to cow the major MSM into silence, barring any actual written evidence.

    "In today's sports its not too hard to tell who's using steroids. All you have to do is believe your eyes. If someone packs on a lot of muscle in short of time, then they're using steroids. It's just not that complicated."---Jose Canseco from his first bestselling autobiography, Juiced.

  • @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper


    Then why do we not see more muscular tennis players?
     
    I don't know. It might be because strength gains are much easier to achieve than lean mass gains, and if what one mainly requires is strength rather than mass then there's no need to train for mass, which would, I'd guess, probably interfere too much with a tennis training regimen (but I'm just guessing).

    Also, if Serena's success is anything to go by then perhaps in the coming years we will see more massive players appearing.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Madison Keys is about the only up and coming player I have seen anything like Serena, but she’s not close and is not going to come close to Serena in terms of success either.

    I’m actually not a Serena fan and don’t like her much, she has too little emotional control and has done too many stupid things, and she’s horrible to watch playing, physically gross. I always admired Venus much more – she’s not as good a tennis player, but she is quiet, almost introverted, and has a feminine athletic grace that Serena just doesn’t have, lumbering around the court. There’s a lot about Garbine Muguruza’s game that reminds me of Venus, except that Muguruza is not as graceful or quite as athletic.

    But the thing to understand about Serena is if you were writing a text book on how to hit a tennis ball, you would use Serena for the illustrations – her technique is perfect, with one exception – she is not a good volleyer. Venus is much better than Serena at the net. But serving, groundstrokes, Serena’s technique is perfect.

  • @Anonym
    @Sandgroper

    No need to rotate the tennis racket over the ball. All that is needed is to brush up with the racket face approximately vertical.

    In any case, racket head speed is composed of timing, fast twitch fibre makeup, muscle power, and physiology like lever length and attachment positions. And probably mass distributions as well to some extent. There are definitely negatives to too much muscle but to a point some advantages as well. In the women's game it helps if they become more masculine (stronger and faster with less fat), as they aren't strong to the point where the need to control the ball's flight becomes more important. In the men's game it can still help if they have a more brutal topspin game like Nadal. And world record holder for serve speed Sam Groth is hardly a Milquetoast. Also if you hold calories and protein intake constant all that will happen is bodyfat goes down and recovery times improve. Which provides some advantages.

    Psychologically you can hit better if you relax the muscles that oppose the motion you want your body to take. But the main muscles still fire. Bigger and better muscles will help to a point.

    And btw steroids still have some effect without resistance training.

    http://fitness.stackexchange.com/questions/19394/can-someone-who-takes-steroids-get-muscle-mass-even-without-lifting

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Yeah. How’s good old Sam doing in the ranking, btw? Ivo Karlović? Feliciano López? Andy Roddick was no slouch when it came to serving speed, and look at what a muscular specimen Roddick was. Not.

    I recently read a research paper that said taking fish oil capsules for 6 months was found to increase strength in elderly people by 6%, which is not trivial, even if they did no exercise at all. But taking more than the optimum dose had deleterious effects.

    Do you reckon Federer is on the fish oil?

    Slightly OT, but Petra Kvitova recently broke the taboo against the M word and spoke about how menstruation makes it difficult for female players. One thing she said that was interesting to me was that they can’t use most of the pain killers marketed for menstrual cramps because they are banned, because they have some performance enhancing effect.

  • @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper


    I first watched Serena play live when she was 17, and stood right next to her afterwards – I’m the same height as her, but I was an adult male who had been doing heavy weight training for years, with broad shoulders, and her shoulders were half as wide again as mine.
     
    Lol, total bs. If you were merely an average male - not broad shouldered - you would have a shoulder breadth of 20". That would make Serena's should breadth 30" - which is, I don't know, about 8 standard deviations away from the female mean. If you were actually broad shouldered, say 24", that would make Serena's shoulders 36" - well into fantasy land.

    Serena is supposedly 5'9. I used a screen ruler to measure her shoulder breadth as a proportion of her height on a pic with a forward facing upright stance. I estimate her shoulders to be 19", and even if I'm off by 20% it still doesn't come close to your outrageous estimate.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    If you think Serena Williams is only 19″ across the shoulders, there’s something seriously wrong with your ruler.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper

    19" would place her over three standard deviations from the female mean. At 21", which I allowed for in my comment, she'd be five standard deviations away. Just how much bigger do you think she could be?

    Maybe you just misperceived how big she was when you saw her. I was always very small until my late teens/early twenties, at which point I became average. Then I started working out and became fairly big. But in my mind I always felt little, and would routinely perceive other people as bigger than me until I'd see me next to them in a gym mirror or in a photo and I'd almost have to rub my eyes. I'm sure I'm not the only one to experience this effect.

    , @Alfa158
    @Sandgroper

    19" seems like a credible number, but to establish some kind of benchmark of what shoulder breadths can run to, I just measured my own shoulder breadth. I am a man who is two inches shorter than Serena , work out regularly , weigh 175 and have a 42" circumference chest and 34" waist. I basically have the same kind of mesomorph build as Serena. I measured right out at 19".
    Regarding your point about muscle power; I am no expert on tennis, the last time I played it was with a wooden Pancho Gonzales signature racquet. I think I understand that the ball can't be muscled, meaning that you can't get the ball going fast by making contact and the using brute force to accelerate it. However by simple physics, if you are trying to accelerate the racquet head towards contact with the ball, that is still a function of strength. Acceleration equals force divided by mass. For a given mass of racquet, applying more force will induce greater acceleration of the racquet, and that force comes from muscle strength.

  • OK, I exaggerated. But her shoulders were broader than mine. Just before her 18th birthday.

    Leave out Serena Williams and look at all of the other male and female tennis players – they are notable for not being heavily muscled. Even Rafael Nadal is not heavily muscled, not compared to, say, sprinters.

  • @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper


    And as any tennis player will tell you, beyond having strong enough shoulders, and muscle and tendon linkages from the chest and upper back, you don’t hit a heavy tennis ground stroke by muscling it – that slows it down. You do it by generating fast racquet head speed all the way through the follow-through, and by striking the ball cleanly in the middle of the racquet. To generate fast racquet head speed, you need to completely relax your arm muscles and swing from the shoulder.
     
    You generate fast racquet speed by generating power. The stronger you are the more power you generate. Greater muscle mass makes you stronger, and hence more powerful, regardless of the fact that you don't "muscle" the racquet. Greater muscle mass isn't the only to become stronger, but all else equal a greater muscle mass unavoidably results in more strength. So your statement that "So Venus’ and Serena’s naturally large bicep development might look impressive, but it’s doing very little to help them hit heavy ground strokes" is dead wrong.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sandgroper

    Then why do we not see more muscular tennis players? Tennis players generally are notable for not being muscular – they look nothing like sprinters.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper


    Then why do we not see more muscular tennis players?
     
    I don't know. It might be because strength gains are much easier to achieve than lean mass gains, and if what one mainly requires is strength rather than mass then there's no need to train for mass, which would, I'd guess, probably interfere too much with a tennis training regimen (but I'm just guessing).

    Also, if Serena's success is anything to go by then perhaps in the coming years we will see more massive players appearing.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • @Dave Pinsen
    @Sandgroper

    Depends where you put on the muscle - if it's just upper body, maybe, but lower body too? Bigger engines are usually heavier than lighter ones, but bigger engines don't make for smaller cars. The fastest sprinters in the world tend to be muscular.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Dave, have a look at Petra Kvitova, Simona Halep and Maria Sharapova – do they look like sprinters to you? The closest would be Halep – the other two are tall and gangly. They are some of the hardest hitters in the women’s game, currently ranked Nos 2, 3 and 4 in the world.

    Halep had to have breast reduction surgery because her bezongas were weighing her down and getting in the way. Watching Sharapova trying to run down a drop shot is like watching a drunken giraffe, all arms and legs going everywhere. None of them is noticeably muscular. Sharapova is definitely no sprinter, and neither is Kvitova.

    Sharapova detests weight training – she said she can’t lift more than 5 lbs. You don’t build muscle just by injecting steroids, you have to train damned hard with weights as well. Not that I know that from personal experience, but I know some hard core body builders, and they lift massive amounts of weight.

    You hit a tennis ball hard by accelerating the racquet head into the ball as fast as possible with a free swing from the shoulder, striking the ball cleanly and by having excellent timing, not by having strong muscles and muscling the ball. Plus you need to hit it with topspin, otherwise you’re just going to hit it long every time, so you need to have the timing to rotate the racquet head over the ball as you strike it, to put topspin on it. The effect of topspin on a tennis ball flying through the air is basic physics – the rotation of the ball induces greater air pressure on the top of the ball than the bottom, so the ball is forced down into the court, instead of flying long.

    I began learning the game of tennis very late, after I had been weight training for a lot of years, and I had to learn how not to try to muscle the ball before I could hit a hard topspin forehand – I had to learn to relax my arm muscles completely, otherwise they slow down the swing. You can try it yourself – clench your arm muscles, then try swinging your arm forward like you would hitting a forehand – it becomes immediately obvious that using your arm muscles to try to hit hard just slows down the swing of your arm.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @Sandgroper

    No need to rotate the tennis racket over the ball. All that is needed is to brush up with the racket face approximately vertical.

    In any case, racket head speed is composed of timing, fast twitch fibre makeup, muscle power, and physiology like lever length and attachment positions. And probably mass distributions as well to some extent. There are definitely negatives to too much muscle but to a point some advantages as well. In the women's game it helps if they become more masculine (stronger and faster with less fat), as they aren't strong to the point where the need to control the ball's flight becomes more important. In the men's game it can still help if they have a more brutal topspin game like Nadal. And world record holder for serve speed Sam Groth is hardly a Milquetoast. Also if you hold calories and protein intake constant all that will happen is bodyfat goes down and recovery times improve. Which provides some advantages.

    Psychologically you can hit better if you relax the muscles that oppose the motion you want your body to take. But the main muscles still fire. Bigger and better muscles will help to a point.

    And btw steroids still have some effect without resistance training.

    http://fitness.stackexchange.com/questions/19394/can-someone-who-takes-steroids-get-muscle-mass-even-without-lifting

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • @Anonym
    @Sandgroper

    There are more PEDs than just steroids, for example EPO.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Yeah – and EPO will do what for a tennis player, exactly? The women play best of 3 sets – they’re lucky if they’re on the court for 2 hours.

    Long distance runners and cyclists, sure, EPO helps. But the Ethiopian and Kenyan highlanders don’t need EPO, they were born with high altitude adaptation; their blood is naturally doped. And they are now winning all the middle distance and long distance races.

    In tennis, nada. You’re lucky if most points last for a rally of 4 -5 strokes, especially for a first-strike attacking player like Serena, or Venus, or Garbi Muguruza. The days of the counter-puncher staying in long rallies are over, even on clay – Wozniacki made it to No. 1 without ever winning a major tournament by being the girl who ran down everything and bunted it back without making any unforced errors, but she never will again. The all-round attacking net players like Muguruza will beat her every time from now on, and they’ll pull the trigger as early in every rally as they possibly can. They don’t need aerobic endurance.

    In the Wimbledon final this year between Serena and Muguruza, the longest rally lasted for 6 strokes. That’s not an endurance sport.

    Be suspicious, by all means. I hate doping in sport. But you need basic logic for why you are suspecting particular players – just firing a shotgun at some girl because she has a bit of muscle development (Samantha Stosur, anyone?) without any credible evidence is just trash talk and smearing.

  • @George
    Serena Williams seems to have the most massive breasts and buttocks of any tennis player, doesn't steroids make them smaller in women?

    Don't steroids cause a users voice to become deeper and male like?

    Shouldn't there be other symptoms of steroids use other than large muscles?

    Recently USADA seems to have increased random testing. How can Williams still elude detection.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Every tournament win in the WTA triggers an automatic dope test. As the reigning No. 1, Serena gets more testing done on her than anyone else.

    If there was ever a player I suspected of possible doping (aside from Martina Hingis, who was caught out using cocaine), it was Justine Henin, who never had a big physique. She finished one season small and skinny, and came back for the next season after a 6 week layoff, and I could not believe how much she had bulked up. As a weight trainer who was not favoured genetically by quick gains, I couldn’t imagine how she could have gained that much muscle mass in a 6 week period. She explained she had hit the weights during the off season because she felt she could not compete in the new era of heavy hitting female players – she was not just referring to the Williams sisters, she was referring to all of the new era female players who were all hitting the ball a lot harder.

    I never heard any kind of proof against Henin, but she did suddenly and unexpectedly retire when she was at the peak of her career when she was 26, and I couldn’t help but suspect that it was to avoid being caught out.

    The Williams sisters never needed drugs to gain muscle mass, they were born that way. You only need to look at their parents, and particularly their mother, to see where they got those genes from.

    And as any tennis player will tell you, beyond having strong enough shoulders, and muscle and tendon linkages from the chest and upper back, you don’t hit a heavy tennis ground stroke by muscling it – that slows it down. You do it by generating fast racquet head speed all the way through the follow-through, and by striking the ball cleanly in the middle of the racquet. To generate fast racquet head speed, you need to completely relax your arm muscles and swing from the shoulder.

    So Venus’ and Serena’s naturally large bicep development might look impressive, but it’s doing very little to help them hit heavy ground strokes. In this year’s Wimbledon ladies’ final, Garbeñe Muguruza was giving Serena back as good as she was getting in weight of shot, and Garbi does not have bulging biceps; not at all.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper


    And as any tennis player will tell you, beyond having strong enough shoulders, and muscle and tendon linkages from the chest and upper back, you don’t hit a heavy tennis ground stroke by muscling it – that slows it down. You do it by generating fast racquet head speed all the way through the follow-through, and by striking the ball cleanly in the middle of the racquet. To generate fast racquet head speed, you need to completely relax your arm muscles and swing from the shoulder.
     
    You generate fast racquet speed by generating power. The stronger you are the more power you generate. Greater muscle mass makes you stronger, and hence more powerful, regardless of the fact that you don't "muscle" the racquet. Greater muscle mass isn't the only to become stronger, but all else equal a greater muscle mass unavoidably results in more strength. So your statement that "So Venus’ and Serena’s naturally large bicep development might look impressive, but it’s doing very little to help them hit heavy ground strokes" is dead wrong.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Sandgroper

    , @antipater_1
    @Sandgroper

    "Every tournament win in the WTA triggers an automatic dope test. As the reigning No. 1, Serena gets more testing done on her than anyone else."

    Just like Lance Armstrong and Alex Rodriguez! Two notorious juicers who never failed a drug test.

    , @Brutusale
    @Sandgroper

    Serena won 5 times in 2010 and 4 times in 2011, but, according to the following, wasn't tested in either year:

    http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/2012/07/panic-on-grass-court.html

    , @rod1963
    @Sandgroper

    I don't buy the natural argument from her or her supporters.

    Testing is no guarantee of finding anything just ask Armstrong or many of the Olympic athletes that are doped to the gills and get away with it. But they have access to top of the line PED's and masking agents that are one or two generations ahead of the drug tests.

    Of course there's more to doping than popping a pill or doing injection. The successful PED users have their own doctor who closely monitors their health and designs a drug regimen to fit their sport and body.

    I look at the UFC, where roid use is quite rampant. Not for strength but for their recovery benefits. Sure the UFC drug tests, but the fighters use masking agents and cycle properly they won't get caught.

    Same with bodybuilding or NFL players. Sure the NFL say's they test, but it's clear with the 300 lb juiced up monsters they have in their stables the testing is clearly worthless.

    People can say sport x does test for PED's, but given the sort of money at stake, workarounds will be found.

    Besides there is no way Tennis would let their star performer get nailed with a positive test. They do not want a repeat of Armstrong(though he was just one of many juicers).

  • You must be joking – Djokovic stands out for his lack of muscle mass. Surplus muscle mass is a disadvantage to a tennis player because it adds to the body mass that they need to drag around the court. I know, because for decades I had conflicting objectives – I did both weight training to gain muscle mass, and I played competitive tennis, and when my body weight went up, my mobility on the tennis court went down. Nadal never does weight training, he hates it, and you don’t grow muscle mass just by taking drugs, you do also need to do resistance training.

    So whatever you think you’re seeing, it’s not what you think it is.

    I first watched Serena play live when she was 17, and stood right next to her afterwards – I’m the same height as her, but I was an adult male who had been doing heavy weight training for years, with broad shoulders, and her shoulders were half as wide again as mine. That’s bone structure, not drugs.

    When Serena hid in the ‘panic room’ when she was living in LA, she’d had a half-sister murdered, and she was being stalked by somebody – it has been an occupational hazard for her. No one remembers Monica Seles being stabbed on court by a deranged Steffi Graf fan? It’s no mystery why she freaked when some unknown male suddenly turned up unannounced at her door.

    It pays to be aware and observant, but you need to know what you are talking about, and you and Steve don’t.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @Sandgroper

    There are more PEDs than just steroids, for example EPO.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    , @Anon
    @Sandgroper

    Gaining muscle mass is merely one component what steroids can do, if that is what the person trains for But steroids are much more than that. It's about being able to train longer and recover much quicker than without juicing. Those things are huge advantage to an athlete even if gaining muscle isn't important factor.

    , @silviosilver
    @Sandgroper


    I first watched Serena play live when she was 17, and stood right next to her afterwards – I’m the same height as her, but I was an adult male who had been doing heavy weight training for years, with broad shoulders, and her shoulders were half as wide again as mine.
     
    Lol, total bs. If you were merely an average male - not broad shouldered - you would have a shoulder breadth of 20". That would make Serena's should breadth 30" - which is, I don't know, about 8 standard deviations away from the female mean. If you were actually broad shouldered, say 24", that would make Serena's shoulders 36" - well into fantasy land.

    Serena is supposedly 5'9. I used a screen ruler to measure her shoulder breadth as a proportion of her height on a pic with a forward facing upright stance. I estimate her shoulders to be 19", and even if I'm off by 20% it still doesn't come close to your outrageous estimate.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Sandgroper

    Depends where you put on the muscle - if it's just upper body, maybe, but lower body too? Bigger engines are usually heavier than lighter ones, but bigger engines don't make for smaller cars. The fastest sprinters in the world tend to be muscular.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    , @The Z Blog
    @Sandgroper


    Surplus muscle mass is a disadvantage to a tennis player because it adds to the body mass that they need to drag around the court.
     
    They used to say the same things about football, baseball (lack of flexibility), cycling, sprinting and swimming. But hey, maybe this time it's true.

    I know a lot about the use of steroids and other performance drugs. I'd pick her out of a crowd from a distance as someone most likely using. She has developed muscle well out of the range of normal for a woman and in ways that are fairly typical of female steroid use.

    Replies: @silviosilver

    , @Pericles
    @Sandgroper


    I was an adult male who had been doing heavy weight training for years, with broad shoulders, and [Serena Williams at 17's] shoulders were half as wide again as mine. That’s bone structure, not drugs.
     
    I just want to leave this for posterity.

    Replies: @antipater_1

  • Beauty can lie all too easily, while oftentimes truth is ugly on first inspection. I've been reading Inventing the Individual: The Origins of Western Liberalism, and it is a beautiful book, full of style and erudition, and paragraph after paragraph of mellifluous argumentation. It is far more gossamer than Victor Lieberman's Strange Parallels, which is...
  • @Robert Ford
    I loved "Interstellar" if anyone hasn't seen it yet. Very cool that they incorporated pop theoretical physics into the movie in a serious way. If you watch it make sure it's a Blu Ray!

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Greg Pandatshang

    Yes, very good film, and well researched.

    • Replies: @Robert Ford
    @Sandgroper

    Somehow, I'm still not a Matthew M. fan but I can now finally accept the Christopher Nolan hype. Seems like it should've won best pic. I liked the Hawking film but this was an Epic. A few cheesy moments but I'll give those a pass - very cool ending.

  • A paper in The New England Journal of Medicine, Cell-free DNA Analysis for Noninvasive Examination of Trisomy, reports on the effectiveness of a new proprietary method to screen for Trisomy 21, which is the cause of 90% of cases where individuals exhibit Down Syndrome. This issue is well known at this point. There are many...
  • @Tarkmargi
    @jtgw

    @jtgw:

    In this case, the parents' emotional response to the suffering of their child is an excellent proxy for their distress at the evolutionary damage caused by a Downs child, who'll consume substantial resources, without providing any long term genetic propagation.

    I think it quite obvious that emotional responses and social concepts like morality have evolved to fulfill evolutionary purposes, and in this context, the evolutionarily correct path is abortion.

    I would go so far as to say that parents should be legally able to euthanize, with suitable regulation, already born offspring with severe genetic defects that were undetected during pregnancy, who are likely to be massive drains on their parents and siblings' wellbeing.

    Of course, emotional hardwiring can become obsolete and even counterproductive, such as the high rates of obesity owing to the instinct for overeating and calorie storage as fat.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @jtgw

    Agree.

  • I’m entertained by the thought that I have a “boutique child”.

    In an era when this is becoming increasingly possible, I don’t see why not.

    She’s not exactly how I would have designed her – I would have preferred that she had less pale, more Chinese skin. And no freckles. But that’s about it.

    She will make more of a positive contribution to humanity and alleviate more human suffering than a very high proportion of others. That’s nothing to jeer at.

  • Whenever I talk about The Nurture Assumption there are a minority of angry and peeved comments. Usually they're not too coherent, but they don't get me down. The reality is that the basic message of the book is very important to get out to the American public, by which I mean upper to upper middle...
  • @Twinkie
    By the way, with all due respect to Mr. Khan, I don't think Tiger Mothering is "inter-familiar status signaling." I've known a fair share of Tigers Mothers in my life (the types who stay up all night to make snacks for their kids while the latter study, pray every day at church for their children's academic success, etc.), and most struck me as earnest believers in the idea that parental involvement = children's success.

    They might be wrong (or not), but they are earnest. I don't think the Tiger Mothering itself is status-signaling, I think being able to say "My son goes to MIT" is status-signaling for such mothers.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    I think you are on completely the wrong track here. Do you see what happens in predominantly (like 97%) Chinese societies?

    The competition starts at 3 years old. Short term, all that cramming and repetition yields some short term gains, like bragging rights over whose daughter came top of the class in Primary One. Long term – nothing.

    • Replies: @Michelle
    @Sandgroper

    I grew up around a lot of Chinese people and when I was a little girl I noticed an absence of sentimentality amongst my Asian friends' parents. They didn't seem to love their children at all. I told my dad "Dad, I don't think Chinese people love each other."

    "Where did you get that idea? Don't be ridiculous," he told me. "Of course they love each other. If they didn't, there wouldn't be so goddamn many of them!"

    Replies: @Twinkie

  • @Helga Vierich
    @Chrisnonymous

    So let’s get real: “aggressive” mothering is abuse. It might get short term results in the same way that having a ferocious drill sergeant gets results by “whipping” raw recruits into shape.

    Consider this: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/05/_tiger_mom_study_shows_the_parenting_method_doesn_t_work.html

    And this: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-legacy-distorted-love/201209/shaming-children-is-emotionally-abusive?tr=MostViewed

    And this: http://www.ted.com/talks/nadine_burke_harris_how_childhood_trauma_affects_health_across_a_lifetime

    Or even this: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/economy/magazine/97268/the-two-year-window

    Replies: @Bill P, @Sandgroper

    Amy Chua was abusive.

    I know a lot of Chinese mothers, through my own personal circumstances, and none of them have been anywhere near as extreme as she was. And a lot of them called Chua out for being an abusive mother.

    ‘Tiger mom’ is not a single condition that describes all East Asian mothers, clearly – there is going to be a wide range of behaviours, just as there is among white American mothers. It means more than just making your kid do his homework, a lot more than that, and Chua was towards one extreme end. I’d say not the complete extreme, because it can get pretty nasty, but heading towards that extreme.

    I had to do my homework. It didn’t scar me for life. What I do know is that during adolescence, I wanted as little to do with my mother as possible, and I did not exhibit delinquent behaviour. Sample of one.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Sandgroper


    Amy Chua was abusive.

    I know a lot of Chinese mothers, through my own personal circumstances, and none of them have been anywhere near as extreme as she was. And a lot of them called Chua out for being an abusive mother.
     
    That was not abuse. I knew really abusive Asian mothers who actually hit their kids hard for academic and moral failures. Amy Chua's "tough" exhortations were just garden-variety hard-driving mother talk. Nothing "extreme" there at all.

    Most media critics of Chua's book never read it, it seemed to me, because much of the book is quite self-deprecating and humorous.
  • A new article in Horizon, Ice-age Europeans roamed in small bands of fewer than 30, on brink of extinction (via Eurogenes), basically gives away the game in the headline. But please keep in mind my earlier post, as low effective population numbers may not accurately convey the actual census size over long periods of time....
  • @AG
    @Sandgroper

    family genealogy. One of my grand-mother is manchu who looks just like Empress Dowager Cixi.

    慈禧太后

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Dowager_Cixi

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Thanks.

  • @Helga Vierich
    @Sandgroper

    I would not assume lack of contact or lack of fairly fluid exchange of members between bands. A hunter-gatherer “band” is ephemeral - it is essentially an assemblage of people who chose to go camping together for a while. Several weeks or months later, they abandon camp, and in fact various families may have already moved off to go join other relatives or friends at a pre-arranged rendezvous.

    The typical size of bands would be just about right (25-30) in this report, and that would be three to five families. Each band would be part of a much larger community. In most cases there would be a pattern of annual aggregation followed by dispersal, based on seasonal resource availability.

    In the Kalahari, I found that each such community was a dialect or language grouping. These communities consist of between 800 and 3000 people. Each of these communities was distributed over between 5,000 and 18,000 square miles. The ability to move between locations within this home range, so that band size could wax and wane with resource availability, is a typical forager risk averse strategy.

    In addition, there was a second strategy. Most adults were multi-lingual, and most had relatives or had formed friendships in the neighbouring communities. This reflects a history of diplomacy, some intermarriage, and exchanges of gifts and information among the different language communities. Individuals networks did not just consist of the people he might be camping with at any particular time, but encompassed over a hundred other people, some of which he might only see once or twice over the course of many years.

    I would also not be assuming that bands “exchanged women”. Most hunter-gatherers have a pattern of matri-local post marital residence, although I have seen cases where the newly wed couple were living with the bride’s parents, and then the whole lot of them walked a hundred miles over several days to go join the camp of the young husband’s grandparents, so that they might meet his bride. This would be one of these pre-arranged rendezvous I mentioned earlier. It so happened that in that particular case, the marriage was between families from different communities: the groom was G/wikwe and the bride was Kuakwe. (After several years of marriage, a couple would basically go camp with anyone they liked).

    What such inter-community ties do, is create a much larger range of potential areas of refuge, should drought or other environmental disaster befall the lands where one community lives, most of the people can disperse to neighbouring communities that are less badly affected. Thus, among mobile hunter-gatherers the effective linkages representing the best risk management strategy would comprise a network potentially spanning many hundreds of thousands of square miles.

    Now in Ice Age Europe, given the pulses of cold interspersed with warmer runs of years, I would such arrangements among communities occupying progressively more risky ranges closer to the retreating ice during warmer cycles. When the ice started advancing again after an interstadial, the communities could fall back, stepwise. southward, along with all the other fauna.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Razib Khan

    “I would not assume lack of contact” – Neither would I.
    “I would also not be assuming that bands “exchanged women” – I would. Not all HGs behave the same; in fact, HG practices appear to vary widely.

    But what the article is saying is: “This demographic model is based on new evidence that suggests populations were much smaller than is generally thought to be a stable size for healthy reproduction, usually around 500 people. Such small groupings may have led to reduced fitness and even extinctions.”

    We have yet to see any data, but in other words, they are talking about bands of maybe 20-30 individuals making up a total population in Europe over that time span of something much smaller than 500. Even if they are talking about effective population size, that makes for how many bands? Daviski’s guess was 30, so total population 600 to 900 people. In an area the size they are talking about, that makes frequent contact pretty dicey.

    I’m not convinced – it sounds verging on hyperbole to me. I want to see some data before I am willing to believe what Pinhasi is saying. His statement that one band might range over the whole of Europe is obviously a grossly unrealistic complete guess, so I am regarding him with extreme caution until demonstrated otherwise.

    • Replies: @Helga Vierich
    @Sandgroper

    Even among inuit, which may be a suitable model for this particular population under discussion, there was a lot of variation - some marriages were arranged between the parents of the young couple, and where they lived after marrying would also vary, but the common pattern was for the man to move to the camp of his bride at least until their first child was born. This was common among Inuit where were still traditional hunter-gatherers on Baffin Island, for example. The main thing about hunter-gatherer marriage arrangements was their flexibility, the relatively high rate of divorce, especially in the form of a series of trial marriages during young adulthood, and the flexibility of living arrangements after a couple had become independent on either set of parents. See for example this book, which is based on over a decade of research: http://books.google.ca/books?id=8M8aihnBACwC&dq=inuit+infanticide&source=gbs_navlinks_s

  • @AG
    If these bands with less than 30 only reproduced among themselve without outside exchange, genetic meltdown would happen very often. You would have a lot of `extinct unique european' which were no longer around.

    Traditional mongolian culture was often discribed as very promiscuous, which encourage their women sleeping with outsiders. There might be genetic interest in such behavior.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Inuit similarly. In recent nomadic HGs, female exchange by various means between groups is the norm, not the exception. Bands of 20-30 with no regular contact or female exchange would fit the metapopulation model, with individual bands going extinct maybe quite frequently.

    No doubt extinction was a close event during the last glacial maximum, the total population in refugia low and diversity very small, but by 14,000 years ago, I doubt extinction was that close unless the number of bands was very small, with virtually no contact between bands. And I simply don’t believe there were nomadic bands that size whose foraging range was the whole of Europe – that is frankly ridiculous.

    My mtDNA is U5. I read somewhere that, outside of the Sami, who are 50% U5, with a much lower figure for Basques and Berbers, the frequency of U5 among modern Europeans is about 5%. So it is rare, but not that rare. By the time of influx of Middle Eastern farmers 7,000 ya, the invaded population of U5 cannot have been that small.

    BTW, IC, do you know if there is a sizeable reference population for Manchu and whether they have been distinguished clearly genetically between Manchu and Korean? Without being rude or personal, how do you know you have Manchu ancestry – from genetic data or family genealogy? I have a personal reason for asking.

    • Replies: @AG
    @Sandgroper

    family genealogy. One of my grand-mother is manchu who looks just like Empress Dowager Cixi.

    慈禧太后

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Dowager_Cixi

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    , @Razib Khan
    @Sandgroper

    My mtDNA is U5. I read somewhere that, outside of the Sami, who are 50% U5, with a much lower figure for Basques and Berbers, the frequency of U5 among modern Europeans is about 5%. So it is rare, but not that rare. By the time of influx of Middle Eastern farmers 7,000 ya, the invaded population of U5 cannot have been that small.

    i think one thing to keep in mind is that the european U5 might be due to early admixture between farmer/pastoralists and HG women. IOW, the U5 in england today might be overwhelmingly from an earlier admixture event in eastern or southern europe.

  • Many remote settlements in Australia (numbering in the 100s) have been logged as having as few as 5 semi-permanent inhabitants. And that is by choice, by ‘connection’ to the land. Those groups are obviously not sustainable, but they object strongly if they are moved, high suicide rates, etc.

    So, nomadic bands of effective population size < 30 doesn't sound startlingly small to me. It sounds about right for HGs, or even on the high side. It depends how 'separated' they were, i.e. what their range was, and how frequently they came into contact with other bands, as to how close they were to extinction.

    • Replies: @Helga Vierich
    @Sandgroper

    I would not assume lack of contact or lack of fairly fluid exchange of members between bands. A hunter-gatherer “band” is ephemeral - it is essentially an assemblage of people who chose to go camping together for a while. Several weeks or months later, they abandon camp, and in fact various families may have already moved off to go join other relatives or friends at a pre-arranged rendezvous.

    The typical size of bands would be just about right (25-30) in this report, and that would be three to five families. Each band would be part of a much larger community. In most cases there would be a pattern of annual aggregation followed by dispersal, based on seasonal resource availability.

    In the Kalahari, I found that each such community was a dialect or language grouping. These communities consist of between 800 and 3000 people. Each of these communities was distributed over between 5,000 and 18,000 square miles. The ability to move between locations within this home range, so that band size could wax and wane with resource availability, is a typical forager risk averse strategy.

    In addition, there was a second strategy. Most adults were multi-lingual, and most had relatives or had formed friendships in the neighbouring communities. This reflects a history of diplomacy, some intermarriage, and exchanges of gifts and information among the different language communities. Individuals networks did not just consist of the people he might be camping with at any particular time, but encompassed over a hundred other people, some of which he might only see once or twice over the course of many years.

    I would also not be assuming that bands “exchanged women”. Most hunter-gatherers have a pattern of matri-local post marital residence, although I have seen cases where the newly wed couple were living with the bride’s parents, and then the whole lot of them walked a hundred miles over several days to go join the camp of the young husband’s grandparents, so that they might meet his bride. This would be one of these pre-arranged rendezvous I mentioned earlier. It so happened that in that particular case, the marriage was between families from different communities: the groom was G/wikwe and the bride was Kuakwe. (After several years of marriage, a couple would basically go camp with anyone they liked).

    What such inter-community ties do, is create a much larger range of potential areas of refuge, should drought or other environmental disaster befall the lands where one community lives, most of the people can disperse to neighbouring communities that are less badly affected. Thus, among mobile hunter-gatherers the effective linkages representing the best risk management strategy would comprise a network potentially spanning many hundreds of thousands of square miles.

    Now in Ice Age Europe, given the pulses of cold interspersed with warmer runs of years, I would such arrangements among communities occupying progressively more risky ranges closer to the retreating ice during warmer cycles. When the ice started advancing again after an interstadial, the communities could fall back, stepwise. southward, along with all the other fauna.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Razib Khan

  • A few days ago a reader asked for a basic definition of terms which might allow for easier digestion of some of my posts. An easy answer would be to buy Principles of Population Genetics. But barring that what are the basic terms that readers think are useful? For example, it seems likely that allele,...
  • Plus genotype, phenotype, haplogroup…we could scratch around and come up with a very long list of terms it would be useful to define for someone who is interested in pop gen and genealogical stuff, but honestly – the simplest thing is when someone is reading a piece and comes across a term he doesn’t understand, Wikipedia generally has an adequate and comprehensible definition. For someone coming to science that is new to him, to at least some extent, he has to accept that he needs to read himself into the science, at least at a basic level.

    Even now I find myself going back and re-reading definitions to remind myself of meaning, because of my late entry – read On the Origin of Species when I was 12 years old, then nothing, zilch, zero until 13 years ago. I had no interest in Biology at all until this started.

  • One thousand and five hundred years ago innumerable Germans, Saxons, Angles and Jutes, came to the shores of Britain, and transformed it into England. One thousand and five hundred years ago the trunk of the English language was grafted upon a fundamentally British ethnic root. Post-Roman Britain was subject to a massive migration of Germans...
  • @The Grate Deign
    Dear Mr. Khan,

    Pilot of the genewaves, here is my request, you don't have to play it, but I hope you'll do your best...

    Would you mind producing a summary of articles such as these written in terms those not immersed in your field might understand? I'm an electrical engineer, thus hopefully not a complete dolt. But I don't speak the parlance of haplotypes and what not. An executive summary that describes the data set, basic methods, and conclusions would be nice, along with a sentence telling me the "so what?" would be especially helpful.

    But it's your bidness, and your call.

    With interest in your campaign of subversion,

    The Grate Deign

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @April Brown, @Razib Khan

    Civil engineer here. I have read just about everything Razib has written on genetics from the outset, and there is a hell of a lot to learn, not helped by the fact that the science is rapidly expanding away from us while we are still trying to nail the basics.

    Basically, it’s a very big ask – I understand enough to know that it is not easily reducible to lay language, and Razib has two small children and a PhD to get finished, and there is no return for him from performing this service, even if it were possible, which I doubt it is.

    I shouldn’t answer for Razib, but from my perspective as a learner, I am afraid I think the only answer is to do one’s own homework, at least to the point where you know what questions to ask.

  • Due to the late unpleasantness certain images of me are floating around the web. To the left is a photo that people can use if they so choose in the future. Just click the link and a much bigger file will pop up. I am not anticipating that this will be needed, but you never...
  • I think I’d shave the sideburns and get the mole surgically removed. Otherwise – perfect.

  • The benevolent dictator, much like Communism, seems to be one of those semi-mythical things that seem to be good in theory but rarely if ever pan out in practice. But every so often there occurs an exception. If there was one man who embodied the archetype, it was Lee Kuan Yew, who passed away earlier...
  • One thing worth watching concerning Singapore: it has a population of 5.5 million, but a resident population of transient overseas workers of 1 million. That is a scary number, and one that is already making a lot of Singaporean locals very unhappy. People I talk to shrug and say that it is the price of progress, but if the locals do not feel themselves to be the beneficiaries of that progress, it sounds terribly like a recipe for trouble.

  • So about six months ago or so I ordered Soylent. Specifically, Soylent 1.4. My interest in Soylent is due to the fact that I'm a very busy person plotting the subversion of America's progressive liberal democratic order, and everyone knows that Peter Thiel and the Illuminati are behind Soylent. More seriously, I'm thinking of replacing...
  • You might just have solved a very difficult problem for me.

  • After the events of today I'm going to curl up with Xunzi: The Complete Text. That's just how I roll. Most of my friends are more outraged than I am. I don't know why. It just is that way. It is heartening that people care about me, and I appreciate it. But there's not much...
  • @ic1000
    Diversity, while celebrated, has to be carefully regulated. The Outer Party can only take so much.

    One blogger known to you likened the experience to being asked out on a date by a leper, then dumped.

    Carry on, please.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    I’ve been on a date with a leper – it wasn’t *that* bad.

  • I just want to add my voice to the long list of people who think what happened absolutely sucked.

    Total lack of principle by NYT, AFAICS. Do they want diversity (of thought/opinion/view/knowledge) or don’t they?

    It’s a bit stupid saying they want diversity, and then not wanting it when they get the sort of diversity of thought they weren’t planning on getting.

    They have just deprived themselves of one of the best read, best educated and best thinking people around.

    It’s a hatchet job, and it stinks.

    I could go on about it for quite a while, but I’ll shut up now.

  • David Reich's lab has a new preprint out, Eight thousand years of natural selection in Europe, which serves as a complement to Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe. Where the previous work has focused on the relationships of ancient and modern populations, this research puts the spotlight on...
  • @J Yan
    That ghoulish picture prompts me to point out that Nicole Kidman was a redhead of European origin by way of Australia.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Honolulu, actually.

  • After a week-long absence, the Internet is growing rife with rumors about Putin's health and whereabouts. Has he produced a heir with Alina Kabaeva? Is he plotting nuclear war with the West from his bunker at Mount Yamantau? Has he been abducted by aliens? Or is the Mausoleum about to get a new occupant?? Let's...
  • He’s back!!!

    Allegedly looking pale – but then, he’s always pale.

  • This morning my attention was brought to an interesting piece in The New York Times, The Feel-Good Gene. It marshals an impressive array of scientific disciplines, genetics, biochemistry, and psychiatry. Concurrently Linda Avey on her Facebook page pointed to where you could find your genoptype for the SNP in question in 23andMe . Because it...
  • @Robert Ford
    @Sandgroper

    am i correct to assume that an AC would be a "middle ground" between "anxious" and not? or does it not work that way?

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Robert, friend, you flatter me. Almost everything I know about genetics, I have learned at the feet of my teacher Razib, metaphorically speaking.

    But I can tell you that my daughter is CC (not surprising). On occasion she has suffered from quite bad anxiety attacks. Not often, but pretty bad. I have never experienced anything like that, although I tend to be a bit of a worrier.

    • Replies: @Robert Ford
    @Sandgroper

    ok, cool, we'll just wait for more info. i sent it to my dad and that's the first thing he asked and i basically said "uh.....I have no idea!"

  • AC, me.

    • Replies: @Robert Ford
    @Sandgroper

    am i correct to assume that an AC would be a "middle ground" between "anxious" and not? or does it not work that way?

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • In the comments below I mention offhand that though on the order of half the genetic ancestry of Latin Americans is European, many salient aspects of their culture are overwhelmingly European (e.g., language, religion, and dress etc.), despite being inflected by Amerindian influences. This is not surprising. Analogies between cultural and biological evolutionary process are...
  • @Anthony
    @Sandgroper

    A bit of humor relevant to the language question: http://lilywong.net/archive/arc990208.htm

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Thanks, I nearly missed that. Classic Hong Kong – I miss Lily Wong a lot.

  • One of the first things that the author of 2002's Religion Explained had to address is the fact that everyone thinks they have the "explanation" for religion. Unlike quantum physics, or even population genetics, people think they "get" religion, and have a pretty good intuition and understanding of the phenomenon without any scholarly inquiry. Most...
  • @Robert Ford
    @April Brown

    just once i want someone to tell me that they're religious but not spiritual:) it'd be refreshing.

    Replies: @Pithlord, @Sandgroper

    My childhood was full of those.

  • Pre-addendum: You can talk about anything in the open thread. End Note Still reading the second volume of Strange Parallels, Southeast Asia in a Global Context, and it's hard going. The issue is that the author's prose is turgid, and I have a very high tolerance for that sort of thing as something of a...
  • @Matt
    For awhile I've considered buying the 23andme genetic DNA kit, and I figured I'd find a higher percentage of informed information here than most places. I am curious, as the health information they're now allowed to provide is limited, have you found it to be a practical service? If so would it be practical for everyone, or only those who want to do a high degree of sleuthing? Any information would be useful. Thanks.

    Replies: @Razib Khan, @Sandgroper

    I did it early enough to get the medical information, but have tried subsequently running my data file through different software available free online, and it is really very simple to do.

  • In the comments below I mention offhand that though on the order of half the genetic ancestry of Latin Americans is European, many salient aspects of their culture are overwhelmingly European (e.g., language, religion, and dress etc.), despite being inflected by Amerindian influences. This is not surprising. Analogies between cultural and biological evolutionary process are...
  • Sorry, yes – I was unfamiliar with the term, but “code switching” is what it is that I have observed among groups of bilingual kids.

  • @Seth Largo
    @Sandgroper

    I have only ever known one child who hybridised language

    Most bilingual children and adults mix their languages in private or among other bilinguals. Spanglish, Chinglish, and so on . . . "code mixing" or "code switching." But these aren't really "hybrids." Bilingual speakers sometimes just go from one language to the other at clausal or phrasal locations where the two languages work more or less similarly, e.g., Spanish complementizer "que" and English "that" both embed dependent clauses, so you'll find Spanish/English bilinguals switching at matrix/dependent clause boundaries all the time.

    But this connects back to Razib's point: An individual whose parents speak different languages does not usually speak a language which is a hybrid between the two, which would be the case if a biological analogy with complex traits were appropriate. Rather, they may speak both of their parents’ languages, or even a single one.

    Most of the time, this is in fact the case. But there are examples of young populations coming of age around two completely different languages and creating a truly unique "hybrid" of the two, usually combining lexical information from one language with simplified syntactic and morphological information from the other. For example, Light Walpiri or Medney Aleut. No speaker of these creole-type languages was ever a complete bilingual in Walpiri and English or Aleut and Russian, so their speakers can't be classified as code-switchers, the way a Spanglish speaker can be.

    In some sense, this is how areal linguistic influence works, too, though at a much slower pace and less dramatic scale as seen in, e.g., Light Walpiri.

    Of course, I don't think this changes Razib's point very much re: differences between cultural and biological evolution. Even in the case of a true hybrid language emerging in one generation, the influence is not from Parents --> Child but is a far more diffuse influence coming in from two larger speech communities.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    I know a lot of Cantonese speakers who use a lot of English loan words, particularly when discussing technical subjects. My daughter and her bilingual friends eschew that wherever possible because they regard it as laziness and lack of education. But sometimes people can’t help it if they are discussing something very technical for which there are no appropriate or sufficiently accurate Cantonese expressions. I’m no linguist, but I don’t see that as hybridisation; not in any genetic sense.

    Yes, when fully bilingual speakers are talking to each other, they will often switch rapidly from one language to the other and back again. When my daughter was a kid talking with a group of school friends, it seemed to me that they were like a school of fish, swimming one way then suddenly all simultaneously switching direction. But they didn’t mix the two languages together, they just frequently switched from one to the other and then back again.

    Our adult Chinese friends labelled my daughter “The NICAM Kid” (Wikipedia: “Hong Kong: commonly used for dual language for programming containing both Cantonese and English/Mandarin/Japanese/Korean soundtracks”) because of her ability to switch seamlessly between languages like flipping a switch, without ever mixing the two languages together – she would just flip from ‘good English’ to ‘good Cantonese’ and back again. She still does as an adult.

    I see Chinglish as just badly spoken or written English by someone whose mother tongue is Chinese. But educated Chinese friends tell me that Chinglish speakers also speak and write badly in Chinese as well as English, e.g. they will write in Chinese but with English grammar construction.

    • Replies: @Seth Largo
    @Sandgroper

    Yep, your daughter is a perfect example of a code switcher (or code mixer, which is more or less the same thing. Fully fluent in two languages, shifting back and forth where the syntax of each language allows a shift (which, I imagine, would be more restricted than English/Spanish). And right, neither code switching nor borrowing technical terms here or there is true hybridization.

    You're also right that Chinglish more often refers to badly spoken English; Spanglish, though, is generally referenced---by linguists, anyway---as a true example of fully bilingual code switching.

    Here's the paper on Light Walpiri,which appears to be a case of true hybridization, with all of its speakers being under the age of 30.

  • @Karl Zimmerman
    @Sandgroper

    That's an interesting anecdote about mixed language. I wonder if the child who spoke in a jumble was on the autistic spectrum? From what I understand autistic children keep the accents of their parents rather than those of their peers - they miss the unconscious social nuance of speech. So it would be logical that in a multilingual situation autistic spectrum kids would often not understand how to code switch.

    Replies: @jtgw, @Sandgroper

    I don’t know, Karl, but she seemed to my uninformed eye to be very anxious and neurotic, compared to other 6 year old mixed-race girls I had been acquainted with. There is another factor – older father. Her father was in his late 50s when she was born. Her parents didn’t play with her much compared to the amount of time I spent playing with my daughter, taking her swimming and on outings, etc. There could be any number of things that were going on with that kid. I felt very sorry for her. What you describe sounds a possible match to what I saw, with her frantically searching around trying to get the words right.

  • In 2008 my friend Michael Vassar, in agreeing with Peter Thiel's thesis about the decline of innovation, suggested that the only game changing technology of the 21st century so far had been the iPhone. 2008 was young year yet for what we then termed "smartphones," which my daughter now thinks of simply as the "phone."*...
  • Just quietly, I think Huawei might have just scored one over Apple:

    http://shanghaiist.com/2015/03/04/huawei-reveals-sleek-new-smart-watch.php

  • I've talked about rs17822931 in ABCC11 several times. The reasons are manifold. First, on many traits of interest it exhibits variation across populations in a simple Mendelian (recessive expression) manner. Second, there are suggestive variations in distribution. Third, the traits are kind of interesting without being biomedical. In other words, it's a cool illustration of...
  • @Tom Bri
    @Sandgroper

    Interesting, and weird, considering all of the much-touted benefits of colostrum. Must be something else going on. Perhaps Asians simply have a longer, slower release?
    Do you have any links I could look at?

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Tom, it was covered some time back when people were discussing the EDAR variant.

    Plus I am quoting my daughter, who has done some lab research on human milk, who said she had to segregate data from samples donated by Europid and Chinese donors, because of the known compositional differences. She didn’t give me any refs, but was in a position to opine because she was in the game, so to speak.

    She’s now no longer in the human milk business, she’s opted to become a mouse killer instead.

  • In the comments below I mention offhand that though on the order of half the genetic ancestry of Latin Americans is European, many salient aspects of their culture are overwhelmingly European (e.g., language, religion, and dress etc.), despite being inflected by Amerindian influences. This is not surprising. Analogies between cultural and biological evolutionary process are...
  • I have only ever known one child who hybridised language – her father was French, mother Chinese, they communicated with each other at home in English, but both worked full time, so the child was cared for during the day by two Filipina domestic maids. The father communicated to the child in French, the mother in Cantonese, and the Filipinas would talk to each other and the child in Tagalog. At the age of 6, when the child spoke, her speech was a jumble of English, French, Cantonese and Tagalog words and phrases, all interspersed.

    In the case of my own daughter growing up in a bilingual household, she never once mixed the languages together – she would switch fluidly from one language to the other, depending on who she was speaking to, but never got the languages confused, even when she was very young. That accords with my observation of other children growing up in bilingual households, and also of French children with whom I was friendly as a kid – they always spoke to me and my parents and sibling in English, their own parents in French, and never mixed the two. Likewise some Croat kids with whom I was friendly – never mixed or confused the languages.

    • Replies: @Seth Largo
    @Sandgroper

    I have only ever known one child who hybridised language

    Most bilingual children and adults mix their languages in private or among other bilinguals. Spanglish, Chinglish, and so on . . . "code mixing" or "code switching." But these aren't really "hybrids." Bilingual speakers sometimes just go from one language to the other at clausal or phrasal locations where the two languages work more or less similarly, e.g., Spanish complementizer "que" and English "that" both embed dependent clauses, so you'll find Spanish/English bilinguals switching at matrix/dependent clause boundaries all the time.

    But this connects back to Razib's point: An individual whose parents speak different languages does not usually speak a language which is a hybrid between the two, which would be the case if a biological analogy with complex traits were appropriate. Rather, they may speak both of their parents’ languages, or even a single one.

    Most of the time, this is in fact the case. But there are examples of young populations coming of age around two completely different languages and creating a truly unique "hybrid" of the two, usually combining lexical information from one language with simplified syntactic and morphological information from the other. For example, Light Walpiri or Medney Aleut. No speaker of these creole-type languages was ever a complete bilingual in Walpiri and English or Aleut and Russian, so their speakers can't be classified as code-switchers, the way a Spanglish speaker can be.

    In some sense, this is how areal linguistic influence works, too, though at a much slower pace and less dramatic scale as seen in, e.g., Light Walpiri.

    Of course, I don't think this changes Razib's point very much re: differences between cultural and biological evolution. Even in the case of a true hybrid language emerging in one generation, the influence is not from Parents --> Child but is a far more diffuse influence coming in from two larger speech communities.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    , @Karl Zimmerman
    @Sandgroper

    That's an interesting anecdote about mixed language. I wonder if the child who spoke in a jumble was on the autistic spectrum? From what I understand autistic children keep the accents of their parents rather than those of their peers - they miss the unconscious social nuance of speech. So it would be logical that in a multilingual situation autistic spectrum kids would often not understand how to code switch.

    Replies: @jtgw, @Sandgroper

    , @Anthony
    @Sandgroper

    A bit of humor relevant to the language question: http://lilywong.net/archive/arc990208.htm

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • In 2008 my friend Michael Vassar, in agreeing with Peter Thiel's thesis about the decline of innovation, suggested that the only game changing technology of the 21st century so far had been the iPhone. 2008 was young year yet for what we then termed "smartphones," which my daughter now thinks of simply as the "phone."*...
  • Second thought – when I catch the train, to pass the time, I snoop on what other commuters are using their phones for. The large majority are using them to play simple games, just to pass the time of the commute. I see the occasional person reading an e-book or something, but it’s pretty rare.

    So if the question is specifically about new tech with mass market appeal, as in aiming for high penetration of whole populations, in order to make money from mass sales of personal objects, then maybe there is insufficient incentive to innovate further. It’s too hard to keep thinking of ‘must have’ new toys, in order to bring higher tech for an affordable price to the minority who will use its fuller capabilities.

  • It’s a tough question. A lot of new technology is developed which most people don’t know about, because they are not working in occupations where they need to know about it/use it. Much of it is game-changing, but in specialist fields that laymen are not interested in, although it may well beneficially impact their lives, if they only knew it.

    If I can take that frame of reference, I say your friend is wrong, and has already been proven wrong.

  • I've talked about rs17822931 in ABCC11 several times. The reasons are manifold. First, on many traits of interest it exhibits variation across populations in a simple Mendelian (recessive expression) manner. Second, there are suggestive variations in distribution. Third, the traits are kind of interesting without being biomedical. In other words, it's a cool illustration of...
  • @Tom Bri
    @gcochran

    Odd, except for the link that Razib gave above, Google can't find anything related to lower colostrum production in Asian women, at least not on the first couple pages of results. It is also not mentioned in my textbooks.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    It’s true though.

    It’s well known to human breast milk researchers that there are quite big differences between European and East Asian milk.

    • Replies: @Tom Bri
    @Sandgroper

    Interesting, and weird, considering all of the much-touted benefits of colostrum. Must be something else going on. Perhaps Asians simply have a longer, slower release?
    Do you have any links I could look at?

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • @Karl Zimmerman
    @Sandgroper

    As I posted last year, I'm very similar to you. TT, dry earwax, and no notable body odor. Also only used deodorant for a short period in high school before I realized it was basically useless.

    That said, I can use personal anecdote to say being TT absolutely does not mean you can't be hairy. On a scale of 1-10, I'm probably an 8 in terms of body hair. I'm not one of those guys who looks like he's wearing a black leather jacket when he has his shirt off. But besides my sides and the lower half of my back, there aren't too many areas of my body that don't have at least a dusting of hair.

    I do wonder if being TT had something to do with my having clear skin as a teenager though. Despite both my parents being crater-faced as adolescents, I was one of those kids who rarely had more than one pimple at a time. That said, the small amount of information I can find online suggests Asians, if anything, have more acne than whites, so it's probably just a coincidence.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Ebizur

    I never had more than the occasional pimple. My daughter is the same. My wife – I don’t think she ever had a single pimple.

  • Every now and then there is a debate on who is more "anti-science", the Left or the Right. I'm not too interested in the details of that, but, a few years ago I expressed my skepticism to Chris Mooney, author of The Republican War on Science, that liberals were somehow reflexively more "pro-science." I suggested...
  • @Ezequiel
    Not that I subscribe to the "if we treated everyone exactly the same there would not be differences" fantasy. But we are not comparing apples to apples. I bet all males in that study got a thorough training in hand grip strength since the onset of puberty.

    Replies: @reiner Tor, @Sandgroper

    Then choose any basis for comparison you like. Choose lower body strength and running. Girls run. Pre-puberty, the fastest girls run faster than all or most of the boys. Post puberty – no contest.

  • I've talked about rs17822931 in ABCC11 several times. The reasons are manifold. First, on many traits of interest it exhibits variation across populations in a simple Mendelian (recessive expression) manner. Second, there are suggestive variations in distribution. Third, the traits are kind of interesting without being biomedical. In other words, it's a cool illustration of...
  • The way I explained it to my daughter – she said “Who are those people who, when they get in the elevator, their smell hits you like a brick wall?” ‘They’re the CC people.”

  • Back in the 1990s eggs had an image problem. They are high in cholesterol, so the recommendations for intake were such that many people started avoiding them. Ergo, this commercial from the 1990s trying to convince kids that eggs are not the work of the devil. What was the science behind this? You can read...
  • @Anonymous
    Very well said, Razib. It is a difficult and unavoidable dilemma that you have to make policy decisions, science seems the best source of guidance; but sciences that study humans are shifting sand because so much is learned so fast.

    I think the long-established practice of having scientific guidelines based on publically available evidence is probably the best solution. Let scientific knowledge, such as it is, generally the best thought we have, win people over through education.

    Most people happily follow such guidelines. Some people will not follow the guidelines. Steve Jobs turned down chemo, and it cost him dearly. As such, he served as a warning to people that "thinking different" can be expensive when it comes to choosing your cancer treatment.

    On the other hand, people who never put much stock in the egg warnings are feeling pretty vindicated, I'd imagine.

    It's a self-correcting system, albeit a slow and inefficient one.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Pancreatic cancer is notoriously difficult to treat, with a low success rate. It is far from certain that Steve Jobs could have been treated successfully with conventional treatment, and so he opted to put his faith in “alternative treatment” which was basically a waste of time.

    He would have been better advised to accept the conventional treatment, but there’s still a high chance he would have been a goner. I don’t think people should make too much of his decision, because it might well not have materially affected the outcome.

    • Replies: @Robert Ford
    @Sandgroper

    I recently read in Forbes that he was "fortunate" enough to be one of the 5% more easily treatable pancreatic cases. I think his biographer is the source.

  • I've talked about rs17822931 in ABCC11 several times. The reasons are manifold. First, on many traits of interest it exhibits variation across populations in a simple Mendelian (recessive expression) manner. Second, there are suggestive variations in distribution. Third, the traits are kind of interesting without being biomedical. In other words, it's a cool illustration of...
  • Thanks for this. I tested as TT. Curiously, I also have dry ear wax. Nothing particular has shown up in my ancestry to explain why. I also have very sparse body hair. I recall being acutely embarrassed when I went through puberty and did not turn out to be hairy, unlike all the other guys. I have since had cause to be grateful for my relatively hairless condition, however, as when my Chinese mother-in-law said “Oh well, at least he’s not one of those hairy foreigners. And he doesn’t smell either.” (What luck – a foreign son-in-law who doesn’t stink.)

    As a self-conscious teenager, I started using underarm deodorant when I started dating girls at 16, just on the assumption that I would need it like everyone else, but stopped again when I realised there was no point and I was just wasting money on something I didn’t need.

    My daughter also tested TT (not surprising, as my wife is Chinese), tried using deodorant twice and then scrapped it because she couldn’t see any point. My wife never got tested, but I can guess in her case, because she never smells, and never uses deodorant because she never needs it. She instructed our daughter to use it, assuming she would need it as a half-foreigner, but as it turns out, she doesn’t, because her father is a foreigner of the rare stinkless variety.

    • Replies: @Karl Zimmerman
    @Sandgroper

    As I posted last year, I'm very similar to you. TT, dry earwax, and no notable body odor. Also only used deodorant for a short period in high school before I realized it was basically useless.

    That said, I can use personal anecdote to say being TT absolutely does not mean you can't be hairy. On a scale of 1-10, I'm probably an 8 in terms of body hair. I'm not one of those guys who looks like he's wearing a black leather jacket when he has his shirt off. But besides my sides and the lower half of my back, there aren't too many areas of my body that don't have at least a dusting of hair.

    I do wonder if being TT had something to do with my having clear skin as a teenager though. Despite both my parents being crater-faced as adolescents, I was one of those kids who rarely had more than one pimple at a time. That said, the small amount of information I can find online suggests Asians, if anything, have more acne than whites, so it's probably just a coincidence.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Ebizur

  • A Really Bad Week For The Supplements Industry: Some of you won't be surprised that these firms are padding their bottom line by substituting cheap ingredients (e.g., rice powder) in lieu of what's on the label. But they can game the system this way because of loose regulatory oversight. Meanwhile, there are periodic moral panics...
  • @Borachio
    Your criticism does not apply to supplements per se, but only to unethical and/or careless manufacturers.

    It's true that manufacturers of vitamins and other dietary supplements are not regulated like drug companies, though it's worth noting that drug companies have had their own problems both with quality control and counterfeit drugs.

    It's also true that the benefits of vitamins and other dietary supplements are disputed and the evidence is ambiguous. Some of their most vocal defenders and critics have direct financial links to the side they're defending. That biases their assessment of the evidence, both pro and con.

    However, it is not true that consumers must remain ignorant about whether vitamins and dietary supplements contain the ingredients listed on the label and no toxic contaminants. The U.S. Pharmacopeia (where I worked for a while on a contract) mainly tests drugs, but will for a fee test vitamins and other dietary supplements. It certifies that they contain the ingredients listed on the label and that they do not contain harmful contaminants. Naturally, USP takes no position on the effectiveness of what it tests: it certifies only that you're getting what you think you're getting.

    Another good resource is Consumerlab.com, to which I am a paying subscriber (and in which I have no financial interest of any kind). Consumerlab.com does independent testing of vitamins and other dietary supplements, including things like protein powders and meal bars. It publishes the results on its web site and is often quoted by mainstream media like The New York Times. Moreover, the site does not publish only positive results: when a supplement fails testing, it publishes that, too.

    http://ashesblog.com/2013/11/05/you-pays-your-money-and-takes-your-chances/

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Sandgroper

    It’s OK, I see Consumerlab have done a report on some that I have used, so I’ll join and get the report.

  • @Borachio
    Your criticism does not apply to supplements per se, but only to unethical and/or careless manufacturers.

    It's true that manufacturers of vitamins and other dietary supplements are not regulated like drug companies, though it's worth noting that drug companies have had their own problems both with quality control and counterfeit drugs.

    It's also true that the benefits of vitamins and other dietary supplements are disputed and the evidence is ambiguous. Some of their most vocal defenders and critics have direct financial links to the side they're defending. That biases their assessment of the evidence, both pro and con.

    However, it is not true that consumers must remain ignorant about whether vitamins and dietary supplements contain the ingredients listed on the label and no toxic contaminants. The U.S. Pharmacopeia (where I worked for a while on a contract) mainly tests drugs, but will for a fee test vitamins and other dietary supplements. It certifies that they contain the ingredients listed on the label and that they do not contain harmful contaminants. Naturally, USP takes no position on the effectiveness of what it tests: it certifies only that you're getting what you think you're getting.

    Another good resource is Consumerlab.com, to which I am a paying subscriber (and in which I have no financial interest of any kind). Consumerlab.com does independent testing of vitamins and other dietary supplements, including things like protein powders and meal bars. It publishes the results on its web site and is often quoted by mainstream media like The New York Times. Moreover, the site does not publish only positive results: when a supplement fails testing, it publishes that, too.

    http://ashesblog.com/2013/11/05/you-pays-your-money-and-takes-your-chances/

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Sandgroper

    N.S., for some time now on and off I have been using GNC protein powders, under the impression it was a reputable/trustworthy American brand. What are the chances I have been getting what I have been paying for?

    FWIW, I don’t live in America, and would have difficulty shipping samples to somewhere like Consumerlab for testing.

    I guess this just underlines what hardcore body builders have always told me – it’s better to get your protein from natural sources (i.e. food) than from supplements.

    • Replies: @Michael Finfer, MD
    @Sandgroper

    From what I have read, you have maybe a 50/50 chance that what is on the label is in the bottle, maybe less, and at least as great a chance that there are things in the bottle that are not declared on the label, and an unknown, but probably not insignificant chance, that an undeclared ingredient might be a known toxin or a known allergen.

    There is a need for appropriate regulation. Too much and you can kill off useful products. Too little and you can end up with situations like the one we not have with supplements. There is a happy medium in which regulations only kill off the nonsense and leave useful products that we can trust. That is what I am advocating for.

  • I'm old enough to remember when people were advised by severe-faced nutritionists about the dangers of eggs, all the while being totally unaware of the possible downsides of gorging on high-sugar, fat-free SnackWells cookies. This was the 1980s and early 1990s, when low fat and cholesterol were all the rage. Now The Washington Post is...
  • @Anatoly Karlin

    Though heart disease rates have gone down, Americans have become more obese.
     
    This is a puzzle and actually something I've wondered about considerably: Did changing dietary patterns, such as lower animal fat and milk consumption, help lower heart disease (even while leading to greater obesity), or was the fall in deaths from heart disease - from an (age standardized) 400/100,000 before 1970 to a mere 80/100,000 today - exclusively the result of remarkable improvements in medicine that had to additionally work against the decline in overall health?
    If tomorrow we were to go back to the medical technology of 1950 or whatever, what will the rate be like - 300/100,000? 400? 600?

    Replies: @Karl Zimmerman, @res, @JayMan, @Sandgroper, @The Z Blog

    I no longer have the relevant graph conveniently to hand (typical – I usually trim and discard my more useful references just shortly before I need them – I think it was something Stephan Guyenet posted on his Whole Health Source blog, but I now can’t find it quickly), but what happened in America (and I expect similarly in Australia, from personal observation) over the 80s/90s was that a major drop in consumption of butter, cream and full fat milk and a big switch to low fat dairy was more than compensated by an increase in consumption of cheese, in terms of annual per capita consumption by weight.

    (Pondering, it seems possible people found it harder to make the connection and thought cheese might be a lower fat and therefore ‘healthier’ choice – I mean, who actually gets out the calculator and does the comparative calculations? But being cynical, bland low quality cheese is a low cost ‘stealth’ filler – it seems to me now that every damn thing available to order for lunch by way of a sandwich, burger, baked potato, hot dog, etc. is packed full of tasteless melted cheese, which is there as a low cost ‘filler’ to make the customer think he’s getting value for money in terms of feeling full enough per dollar spent. Don’t get me wrong, I adore cheese, but I don’t want it in every single damn thing, and I want cheese I can taste, where much less mass of tastier cheese is more rather than less, a bit like how highly flavoursome spiced food is more satiating, as in the recent discussion of chilli peppers and hot sauces. For me, good roquefort is the queen of cheeses and costs a bomb, but you don’t need much of it to get a good taste of it – as long as I can beat my daughter to the refrigerator. It’s pretty safe with my Chinese wife though – just the thought of veined cheese made from ewe’s milk is almost enough to make her hurl.)

  • It's been a while since I did one of these. Sometimes people want have a thread to say a few things about themselves, as that way they can know who else they're talking to and with. You can use a pseudo, but please don't use "anon" or "anonymous", since it is hard to tell people...
  • @Jokah Macpherson
    I've been reading your blog sporadically since the group gnxp blog days although I wasn't very regular until 2009. I'm not a scientist or anything; just an accountant, but in my mid-20's my personality changed a lot and I developed a large curiosity that had been mostly dormant before. I like the blog for several reasons, including the book recommendations and the fact that even the commenters are mostly more knowledgeable than me. I also appreciate your writings on religion - they are the most accurate and even-handed that I have read. Most importantly, I appreciate that you know a decent amount about a lot of different topics. Although I think civilization needs both, I'm more partial to generalists than specialists and consider myself to be a generalist as well.

    I have plenty of time to pursue all my reading and other interests since I'm part of the unusually large older virgin readership contingent on this blog and don't have any family responsibilities. I'm not saying it's my preference but as consolation prizes go it's not bad. I'm not bad looking or socially inept but anxiety with women seems to run in the family. My dad was almost 40 when he married (yeah I know, more mutations) after just one other serious girlfriend and I have a 48 year old male first cousin who by all accounts of those closest to him has been celibate since his early 20's.

    You are right about sex differences being a tough sell. At the Super Bowl party Sunday when they aired the "You Throw Like a Girl" commercial and the room was filling with "Atta girl!'s" and "Amen's", I turned to the person next to me and said, "Don't they know that there's a three standard deviation difference in throwing velocity between the sexes?" but I just got a blank stare. Girls being equal to boys at throwing feels right emotionally so it's the default public sentiment but I guarantee you Belichick is not starting Gisele over Tom next season.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Setting aside the obvious differences in upper and lower body strength, my daughter’s suggestion is to look up “carrying angle”, i.e. a girl throws like a girl because she’s a girl.

    So I did, and Wikipedia suggests there may even be “racial influences which add to the variability of this parameter”. I understand zero about American football, but for people who like to debate why most top quarterbacks are white, while most top running backs are black (or whatever it is – don’t crucify me, I know nothing), maybe it’s another variable to toss into the pot, just to add to the mayhem.

  • In dredging up my 1970s college newspaper review of the Ramones last week, I got to thinking about why I liked them. A big reason was because they played fast, and at the time I liked fast music (I still do, although not as much). Judging by the large number of well-informed comments on the...
  • @Fisk Ellington Rutledge III
    I think that much music strikes a chord with people because it distills what people already hear and experience around them.

    In the 19th century songs were sometimes dreamy with a lot of chirping birds or angelic (male and female) voices expressing romantic aspirations that imitated sounds of nature; both sublime and homey. Some music took their rhythm from the sound of horses hooves or hand tools.

    In the early 20th century music began to pick up its tempo by taking the rhythm of steam engines. A LOT of dance music up to 1950 was reminiscent of a steam engine; either a direct imitation or syncopated.

    The electric guitar sounds like nothing more than a powerful automobile engine with loud mufflers. A lot of guitar licks seem to imitate a very high-revving automobile engine; all very stylized and extrapolated from the original source.

    As people's daily lives sounded less and less like nature and more and more like machinery, and people were physically moved faster and faster, music reflected that. Maybe. Just a thought.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar, @Sandgroper

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Sandgroper

    I didn't realize until recently that Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top is the grandnephew (or something like that) of Cedric Gibbons who earned so many Art Direction Oscar nominations in Hollywood. That helps explain how ZZ Top adjusted so much better to the coming of the MTV Age than other older bands: Billy had spent a lot of time with his uncle when he was younger talking about the making of visual pizazz.

  • It's been a while since I did one of these. Sometimes people want have a thread to say a few things about themselves, as that way they can know who else they're talking to and with. You can use a pseudo, but please don't use "anon" or "anonymous", since it is hard to tell people...
  • Long term fan/beneficiary of Razib’s Science and History writing, and hugely entertained by the slap-downs. Civil/Geotechnical Engineer now working for one of the world’s largest consulting companies. Born at the furthest south-west tip of Western Australia, spent early childhood playing with Noongars, now normally resident in East Asia. [Cylindrachetidae are bizarre tunneling insects known popularly as Sandgropers – 5 species are endemic only to Western Australia; hence other Australians refer to Western Australians as Sandgropers, given that much of WA is just sand, sand and more sand – the particular joke in my case being that I do actually spend some of my time digging tunnels.] Conservative. Ex-Anglican (Episcopalian) atheist, non-believer in multiculturalism except within some narrow confines, lifelong feminist (born that way) in the true original meaning of gender equality, while obviously knowing that there are group differences between males and females. Active supporter/practitioner of interracial marriage as being a generally good idea and socially constructive thing to do, while worrying about the conundrum of how to genetically preserve Australian Aboriginal people and whether anyone should even try, given that it requires some form of Apartheid/extreme isolation and seems socially unjust. Keen tennis player (competitive) and cyclist (for transport).

  • I'm pretty busy now with non-internet related stuff (i.e., life), so not giving much thought to what's going on in the big wide world. But I do want to say something about the goings on in France. First, it's really fucking offensive to me that social-justice-warrior types decide to tell me what's offensive and/or racist...
  • @Pithlord
    @Sandgroper

    My guess is that "Cup of Soup" is referring to the Westbank First Nation, which is part of the Okanagan group, but has a capitalist ethos that Ayn Rand might think was a bit extreme.

    The worst places for First Nation/aboriginal social outcomes are Saskatchewan and Manitoba, which are heavily Cree, so I expect the Cree would do worse-than-average.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    That might explain why Buffy Sainte-Marie chooses to live on Kauai. Mind you, if I had a choice, I might choose to live there too.

  • @Pithlord
    @CupOfCanada

    I have no doubt you are right that public policy accounts for a lot of the difference in social outcomes between reserve aboriginals and the rest of the Canadian population. It certainly accounts fro the difference between reserve aboriginals and off-reserve aboriginals. But then you should also acknowledge that aboriginal policy in Canada has been in the hands of those who want to accommodate aboriginal nationalism since 1970 (certainly since 1982).

    So the quality of reserve schools and reserve government has *something* to do with lack of property rights and nepotistic and corrupt governance, and generally with the principle that the law of the land does not run on reserve. Also, these governments are increasingly dependent on resource revenue, so they show the typical "resource curse".

    You live in Kelowna?

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Not Cree then. Flatheads?

    • Replies: @Pithlord
    @Sandgroper

    My guess is that "Cup of Soup" is referring to the Westbank First Nation, which is part of the Okanagan group, but has a capitalist ethos that Ayn Rand might think was a bit extreme.

    The worst places for First Nation/aboriginal social outcomes are Saskatchewan and Manitoba, which are heavily Cree, so I expect the Cree would do worse-than-average.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

  • @CupOfCanada
    @Curious Canadian


    and some bilge about rez schools that isn’t supported by fact (who told you it was like that? the media?).
     
    Well, my Church did, since we ran a bunch of these schools, and have apologized for the horrorshows that happened there. I'm not particularly religious, but when my Church says it fucked up horrifically, I tend to believe they're telling the truth. Religions aren't in the habit of admitting fault for no reason.

    So, whitey’s fault then, and nurture over nature, and genetics aren’t terribly relevant here
     
    Well, I don't think you can really blame white people for most of the country been a frozen, mosquito filled swamp. But government policies (and I wouldn't characterize the government as specifically "white") certainly haven't helped.

    I think you'd be hard pressed to find a genetic reason for infant mortality to be twice as high in remote reserves as urban ones. Check out Wassimi et al (2011). Or Delisle et al (1995) with respect to type 2 diabetes. Half the gap on test scores between aboriginal and non-aboriginal people in BC is explained by whether or not an aboriginal student lives on a reserve. Half! Canadian aboriginal people are more diverse than their cousins to the south, but I don't think you can find genetic reasons for variance of a factor of two in things like infant mortality or diabetes prevalence. I do think you can pretty easily find social, economic and geographic variables that explain a lot of that. Stochastic factors like quality of First Nations leadership on each specific reserve probably plays a large role too.

    Every society selects for something – what did theirs select for?
     
    Larger brains for one. IIRC, aboriginal people in Canada have higher average brain volumes than just about any other population in the world, with the exception of Siberia. Mainly due to conserving heat in a cold climate. I don't think that's what you were getting at though was it.

    Otherwise I'd think it'd be the same as any other society on the cusp of the neolithic revolution. Obviously there are some genetic factors with respect to disease, lactase tolerance and stuff like that that are relevant, but the variation even between different bands from the same tribe is just too large to be explained away by that.

    The First Nations nearest to my home has among the best outcomes of any First Nation in Canada. In fact, living on that reserve places you in one of the top 100 communities in Canada when it comes to outcomes like health, education and income - the only reserve with that distinction. Is there some genetic difference between this band and the ~700 other bands in the country? I doubt it. It seems far more likely that factors like good leadership, good access to services like schools and hospitals in the surrounding area, and not signing a treaty until the 21st century had more to do with it. Worth noting too that part of that treaty granted property rights to people on the reserve, and waived the tax exempt status for members of the band too.

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Pithlord

    Not that I have delved much into Canadian First Nations, but I see some parallels with Australian Aboriginal people living in remote communities. Not to over-generalise, though, because this is comparing people on the cusp of the Neolithic revolution with people who were still living in the Pleistocene, with possibly a bit of imported and adopted culture within the past 5,000 years along with a bit of admixture and some dogs. But as you were listing the issues, I was ticking the boxes, and in Australia we are talking about people with a mean IQ of 65.

    I’m very curious to know who the most successful group are. I’m guessing Cree, but it’s just a guess. But that would have to be some sub-group of the Cree, no?

    • Replies: @CupOfCanada
    @Sandgroper

    @Pithlord is referring to the Westbank Band, which is of Salish extraction - so related to the Flathead. They're located in the suburbs of Kelowna. Beautiful area - it's a major wine producing and tourist region, with hot dry summers, warm sandy beeches, and a cool deep lake to cool off in. The specific group I was referring to is one of the Salish bands in the suburbs of Vancouver, but the Westbank certainly qualify as extremely successful. The band located to the south of Kelowna (the Osoyoos) is a pretty impressive success story too. The band has 400 members, and the band owned businesses employ 4,000 people. So yes, very entrepreneurial. First Nations in BC also tend to vote more conservatively for whatever reason.

    From my standpoint, it seems that First Nations reserves that are most likely to have "good" living conditions tend to be located in British Columbia, not covered by any treaty signed in the 19th-early 20th century ("numbered treaties" - only British Columbia wasn't significantly included in these treaties), and located in urban and suburban areas. But there are huge exceptions to this in both directions - that study on diabetes found rates differed by a factor of two between two neighbouring bands of the same tribe located in similar environments. So even keeping cultural and political factors constant there's a huge amount of variation.

    A lot of the Cree seem to have gotten bad luck by 1) being located in less than ideal land (mostly swamps and permafrost) and 2) having all signed treaties in the 19th-early 20th century. Those treaties, while intended to guarantee certain rights and privileges to aboriginal peoples in Canada, seem to also constrain them. I think @Pithlord makes a good point that since at least the 1970s, the Canadian government's intentions towards aboriginal people have been positive. I think that a lot of well intended policies are actually having a pretty negative impact (the lack of property rights being one of them). Some people, particularly on the left, claim that the collective ownership of land on reserves protects the people their from having their homes bought up by hypothetical predatory speculators. From my standpoint, the policies of collectivization seem to have had pretty disastrous consequences in the rest of the world, so I don't see why it would be any different for Canadian aboriginal people. I don't think private ownership should be rammed down any First Nation's throat, but to not even have the option due to some 150 year old treaty?

    I do think there is one very plausible genetic link, though not the one most people would expect - metabolism. First Nations in Canada are at very high risk to develop diabetes, and while the Inuit are an extreme example of this, I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that there may have been some adaptations both in Siberia and North America to reflect the availability of different food sources in a cold climate. There is an absolute epidemic of diabetes among First Nations mothers, and particularly when not treated properly this has been correlated with high rates of macrosomia as well (though I'd note that in Australian aboriginal people macrosomia does not have the same association). Rodrigues et al (2000) has a good overview of the overall prevalence, and there are quite a few studies that show children born to diabetic mothers have lower education outcomes and increased risk of hyperactivity. There's been quite a few studies that have found genetic risk factors specific to Native Americans for type 2 diabetes too. So I think it's plausible that a lot of First Nations kids are being dealt a shitty hand from before birth. And it really doesn't help that a single head of cabbage can cost $30 in some of these remote places.

    That 64 IQ number is from Richard Lynn isn't it? I thought he was pretty thoroughly debunked for poor methodology (like using test scores from a Spanish school for the disabled as his "sample" for Equatorial Guinea). I thought this paper was pretty interesting: http://cbe.anu.edu.au/research/papers/ceprdpapers/dp578.pdf They found that when you controlled for socioeconomic factors, the test score gap between aboriginal and non-aboriginal children was reduced to 0.5 standard deviations. They fail to mention that the correlation is no longer statistically significant (though to be fair it's pretty close to the p<10% level), but even if the correlation is real, I'm not very convinced that this is due to something fundamentally wrong with aboriginal people. It could be due to something unique and different that society is failing to address.

    Re: the Neolithic - some Inuit groups were even working with copper. Farming was just pretty much impossible where they lived. I find it a bit offensive (sorry Razib) the way groups like PETA judge the Inuit for their way of life. What are they supposed to do except hunt seals? PETA claims they don't target the Inuit seal hunt, but their activism sure has been effective at destroying the market for seal fur. Now the Inuit can only use the seal hunt for subsistence. To paraphrase Inuit throat singer Tanya Tagaq, fuck PETA, and people shout eat and wear as much seal as possible.

    But yah... I really don't think it should surprise people that those who experience the most government intervention in their lives have a bad time.

    Replies: @Pithlord

  • @Razib Khan
    It’s simply wrong to do, and I don’t see how you can avoid ethically criticizing people who do this.

    i made it pretty clear on my twitter feed via who i retweeted that i thought the way eich was purged was atrocious.

    there are plenty of things i could talk about and address. just because i use my finite time to talk about a subset doesn't imply that i "avoid" something. it just isn't as high on the stack of my personal interests/competencies. most of the commenters who banned/deleted simply elide and confound any differences between the different categories you enumerated. i think that's bullshit. (there's also a tendency to bastardize steve sailer's views and pass them off as their own, which annoys me since i've been reading steve for nearly 15 years now and i'm familiar with the original).

    i had to deal with a serious medical emergency in my family this week. i hope you don't think i'm avoiding the substance of your comments, as i have to deal with a lot of bureaucratic stuff relating to that right now at 12 AM in the morning...

    Replies: @Sandgroper, @Immigrant from former USSR

    Hoping everything is resolved, or at least stabilised.

    I’m just about done with medical stuff, myself, but if I just slip away, the people I love most will never forgive me, and I can’t go that way.

  • “Cartoonists tend to be white men” made me laugh so hard I nearly ruptured myself.

  • 23andMe just made a huge deal with the biotech firm Genetech. You've probably heard about the details elsewhere, but if not, Matt Herper has an excellent lowdown: A deal being announced today with Genentech points the way for 23andMe, the personal genetics company backed by Facebook billionaire Yuri Milner and Google Ventures to become a...
  • @Robert Ford
    Disappointing they can't see the difference between using your non-anonymous data (that we willingly upload to Facebook!) to try to sell you something and anonymous genetic data used to help humanity. Fashionably indignant prudes, I say. It's not surprising though, after you watch 90% of people become immideately outraged when someone is filming them in public.
    http://www.liveleak.com/c/SurveillanceCameraMan
    5 second IQ test.
    Privacy is somewhat relative - in my grandma's time it was the norm for the egg delivery man to walk straight into everyone's home without anyone letting him in. He'd knock, let himself in and say "Egg Man!" as he was making his way to the fridge as a warning in case anyone was naked:)

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Some great stuff there.

    Here is some footage to illustrate genetic/behavioural differences between northern and southern Han. This is not concocted humour. This is real. This is why I married a northern girl. But it’s not for the faint-hearted, man. If you take a northern wife, you’d better mean it.

    • Replies: @Robert Ford
    @Sandgroper

    Ha! I liked that. I sent it to my cousin who recently married a girl he met online who's from a large city in eastern China (don't remember which one.) I had no idea there was that big of a difference in the women by region.
    my good friend dated a girl from China who was definitely closer to a North girl:)

  • It was transparent to me, and while I’m not a total moron, I’m not always the sharpest knife in the drawer – the deal was I agreed they could use my data for research on condition that they would keep me anonymous unless I agreed otherwise – same deal with linking up with people to whom I am related. I should very much hope that they are making deals with people like Pfizer and whoever – that is exactly what I hoped for and expected. That’s what ‘research’ means – they are not a charity. For US$99, it was a hell of a deal, and I still think so.

    I don’t have any disappointment with 23andMe over that. My disappointment, such as it is, and this has happened for obvious reasons and it’s not their fault, is that, of the 1,000 people they have flagged up as related to me, almost all are resident in North America (the USA or Canada), and I can pretty much infer from the info they have made available that they are middle-aged or older and white.

    It is not that I have anything against middle aged white Americans and Canadians, but none of my direct ancestors had any links with America or Canada, so these are all moderately distant side-branch people who are uninteresting to me and with whom I would have little to nothing in common.

    My concerns are trivial and of no relevance to anyone, but it points to how biased their database is – they have excellent coverage now of some groups, but…well, I am willing to bet that the analysis they have given my daughter of her ‘Asian’ half is based pretty much on samples from people of Asian ancestry living in North America, and it is frustrating in that it is lacking in sufficiently fine grained detail.

    It would be great if they could sample the world. But they can’t. We could futilely enumerate the reasons, but the fact is they can’t.

  • One minor aspect of having multiple children when you're interested in genetics is that you get to "run your own experiment", so to speak. The above image is a screenshot of 23andMe's Genome View feature, which basically allows you to compare your genome with relatives. Above you see the comparison of the autosomal genome of...
  • @Buzz Mohawk
    It would be interesting to see a male/female pair of actual twins who are genetically mostly identical except for sex. I wonder if geneticists have come across any genome pairs like that.

    Something like that, or close to it, might shed light on the true differences between men and women.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    On 23andMe it would show as something like half identical on x, but ‘not enough information’ to show anything on y, which is reflecting the true difference between men and women.

  • Been reading A Cooperative Species and A Wonderful Life. The grammatical sections of The Sense of Style were heavy-going for me. Jason Collins reviewed A Cooperative Species a few years ago. As for A Wonderful Life, it seems to me that Stephen Jay Gould had mastered the ponderous and egotistical prose flourishes evident in The...
  • @Razib Khan
    the ducks will kill!

    Replies: @Polynices, @Sandgroper, @omarali50

    One of my daughter’s ambitions is to have her own squadron of trained attack ducks – not to kill anyone, just to overfly them in formation and mass-crap on them.

  • @Robert Ford
    @Sandgroper

    well now i have to watch it! sounds pretty brutal. honestly, it seems like that's what most of the war was - throwing massive amounts of disposable men at a front to see what they'd get. i already saw the film and didn't remember D-Day going that poorly. seems like every other operation, pretty much everything goes wrong and there weren't good plans or enough troops/supplies, etc. What a mess. I mean, everyone's seen this stuff a lot but this time i'm really internalizing it and imagining being faced with that war like those kids were. i really don't think i could've done it - i'd have run away!

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Rob – the appalling thing was the awful callous stupidity of the leadership.

    I’m not dissing Omaha Beach, Saipan, or any of the other awfulness, but on a sheer scale of wanton human slaughter, the Somme takes some beating.

    I once made the awful but unpredictable error of sitting next to an initially very friendly American guy on a plane – we got to talking about the nicest places we had been, and without thinking I said that the single nicest place I had ever been was Saipan. I was being genuine – the island is still littered with WWII military wreckage, but as a place to chill out for a week, I couldn’t think of anywhere better – my wife and I had spent a week there once, and didn’t want to leave.

    He responded that his father, who he never got to meet, was a US Marine who had died on the beach there. From then on, it was a very uncomfortable journey. Nothing I said from that point helped.

  • @Hipster
    Years ago I saw a special with Jack Hanna about "making" a dinosaur. If I'm not mistaken it was on the Discovery Channel.

    The gist of it was that modern birds have the segments of DNA necessary to emulate dinosaurs. For instance chickens legs are scaly, and bodies are feathery, but it's possible to alter an embryo's DNA so that the whole body comes out scaly. Well Dinosaurs as well may have been feathery, so maybe taking their feathers away isn't even making them more dinosaur like, just making them look more reptilian. Chickens have the ability to grow teeth if only that bit of the DNA is activated as well. And they can have long tails too.

    So by making a series of changes to how chickens develop, you could have a scaly, toothy, long-tailed, chickensaurus running around.

    They actually did mess with several chicken embryos and showed how they were developing in their eggs compared to normal fetuses. But they only made one of these changes to one embryo at a time. One chicken with teeth. One chicken with a long tail. One with no feathers. And none of these chickens were shown to have hatched.

    Is there some sort of law preventing someone from doing this? Clearly a lab was able to mess with their DNA and keep track of their development, but they all went unhatched. It seemed to me that they could basically do it today if they want, take a bird and mess with it until it looks dinosaur like.

    I just want to see genetically modified chickens that look like dinosaurs. Or Emus. Or Cassowaries. Is that too much to ask for 2015?

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    Cassowaries are pretty scary. I’m not sure they need any modification to make them more scary, or even more dinosaur-like. Ambush attackers.

    Emus are pretty harmless/timid by comparison, unless one of them craps on you as it runs past. That’s not too funny.

  • It's titled The Abortion Stereotype: Very happy to get a mention of the General Social Survey into The New York Times. Long time readers know I'm a big fan, and I wish more pundits and people would use it to check up on their intuitions and preconceptions. Also, you may have noticed, I'm contributing to...
  • @Jokah Macpherson
    It's weird seeing a Razib comment section that's completely open; I've been spoiled all these years with the heavy policing of comments on the Gene Expression blog.

    Replies: @Sandgroper

    I honestly wish I had not read most of those comments.