It’s just one of the narratives in the current information war. But sometimes I feel – ok, let them believe that…

“the phone call proves it!”;

The phone call just shows that the State department did not select, groom / finance and put forward some candidate, the way some here imply, but that they, once these candidates were already in the forefront (selected by the Ukrainians themselves), decided which one the State department will support (it’s usually the liberal one and even this “support” is not all that tangible). This is how they work in European countries. It is subtle. Of course, they want the liberal candidate (open markets, etc) but it doesn’t mean they “install them”. In fact, I would argue that the Western support for Ukraine has been shamefully limited. And here I agree with Trump that it should’ve been Europeans that should’ve done more.

It doesn’t matter in what parts surzhik, Russian or Ukrainian are spoken. Many countries (I’d even argue most) have such ethnic / cultural elements – Belgium, despite of being part Francophone and part Flemish, is still one country, so is Switzerland.. Canada, UK, Russia, are all such countries. Germany used to consist of many different statelets. So is the US – you won’t disagree that California / Cascadia has “different priorities” than Alabama or New York (city and state)? But it doesn’t matter, because it was a minority in Ukraine that rebelled and was propped up by a foreign government. There was no opolchenye even during times like the Orange revolution. They disagreed but they lived in relative peace. This conflict showed that there is a political nation in Ukraine.

They need to respect the language use in Donetsk, that’s all. The EU membership is not something that is going to happen tomorrow at breakfast time, eurointegration and development (and the healing) of various regions can happen gradually, even while the conflict is still on.

Yesterday the Ukrainians commemorated the “hundred in the heaven”. To imply that the US somehow orchestrated the Maidan (as the alt right constantly insists) and that it wasn’t a true manifestation of the people’s will, is frankly, not only inaccurate but offensive. The embassy staff working in Kiev at the time (including the agents) simply wouldn’t have had the means to organize such a huge event. It was spontaneous.

And why should the alt right “isolationists” care about Ukraine anyway? Maybe focus on Cascadia / California instead? Isn’t there going to be a “secession” there?

And, it’s already been established here several times, that only a minority of the population in the east rebelled. They did not want to leave Ukraine, they just didn’t want to join the EU. They couldn’t have sustained the “opolchenye” without Russian weapons, paratroopers and such.

There was bilingualism there already prior to Maidan. Many people in the Russian speaking Harkiv, for instance, are big patriots of the united Ukraine. The people in the east should be allowed to use whatever language they wish. There’s not going to be a Novorossya because Putin doesn’t want it and because you’d have to kill millions of people just to establish it. Donbas is not Crimea.

Jon0815, it will take a long time now to mend the Russo-Ukrainian relationship, given Donbas and Crimea. Just like the potential EU membership, it could take decades.

There are probably opportunities offered by the Customs Union, for sure, but there is also potential for a Central / Eastern European bloc. In fact, given the demographic and political changes in the US, the significance of Ukraine might actually grow in the future. It would be in the interests of the Eastern European countries to have a solid partnership structure in place for whatever comes ahead.

Also, note that the competition for the posts on China’s New Silk road has just began and Ukraine is in a good position to become an important hub.

With regards to Russian and Ukrainian GDPs.. the price of oil tripled from 1990 to 2000s (If I’m not mistaken, at one point Yeltsin and Nemtsov were working with something like $20 per barrel). Of course, it’s not the whole story, but significant.

p.s. Btw, a visa free regime was introduced today between the EU and Ukraine.

If, on the other hand, it’s a genuine attempt to get increased European military spending, then it’s pretty stupid on its face. To try to argue that European NATO countries don’t pay enough towards their defence is pretty absurd, bearing in mind the only plausible military threat to European NATO countries would be Russia (classifying the jihadist threat correctly, as a security matter rather than military), and the European (ie non-US) members of NATO alone spend around four times as much on the military as Russia, and include two second-strike-capable nuclear deterrent forces.

Absolutely correct, and if the Trump administration were to push forward with this agenda, it would in fact constitute a racket. The US and European interests diverge. Paying one’s “fair share”, or rather, a reasonable amount for the territorial defense of one’s own region / continent (or even to protect one’s democratic space), is a non-negotiable, however, taking money out of one’s treasury and putting it towards continuing to destabilize the Muslim countries and to kill more Muslims, many of whom are totally innocent (in the name of the US or Israel or whoever), is unacceptable and is not going to fly with most Europeans. The US cannot hold its empty promises over our heads and expect that we will pay with money and blood and then when the time comes to help us, the US reserves itself the right to just say “Er, sorry, no, America needs its “me” time now, bye”. The Europeans have participated in the war on terror for 15 years now (started through Article 5 to defend the US), suffering a large part of the casualties (I heard up to one third) and saving American lives in the process. As we speak, another Polish soldier has just been wounded in Afghanistan (along with a terrible casualty that just took place where something like a 100 Afghanis, including babies, were killed).

This is like D’Artagnan – you are either in all the way or you’re out. There should be no wiggle room. You can put anything under the phrase “one’s fair share” and demand endlessly without delivering yourself (the Russians may or may never come!). It’s like an aging parent who holds her inheritance over the adult child’s head, asking for all sorts of favors for years and then decides to donate it to the animal shelter. Or like a male suitor who expects sex now but wouldn’t put a ring on it. It doesn’t work that way.

No, if the US wants us to pony up more money (and more importantly men, our husbands and sons) for the questionable war on terror (and I’m not saying that terror is not a security issue) it should leave NATO. The destabilization of the ME only hurts Europe (more refugees that Americans (or Russians) don’t even have to accept but who are on the doorstep of Europe – not in our interests!). Jihad is a bigger threat to the US, Israel and Russia than Europe.

Europe should form its own alliance (and maybe invite Canada, too) strictly based on territorial defense and channel the resources towards internal and border security (refugee management, strengthening of borders, social stability (incl. prevention of terror), possible threat from Russia, etc) and potentially common values (rule of law, basic liberties, etc).

“Among the 19 post-communist nations of Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union listed, a more Nordic phenotype is roughly but definitely correlated with a higher HDI score, from Estonia (ranked #4 on phenotype; #30 on HDI) down to Armenia (#47 on phenotype; #85 on HDI).”

Just a little note on the language here: none of the post-Soviet / North Eastern European people are “Nordic” (Nordic as in Germanic). They are Baltic and Finnic – predominantly r1a with a strong N admixture / ancestral base. Judging by the phenotype, some of the lightest / tallest people in the world, sure, but not “Nordic” by any racial definition (with the exception of a few tiny pockets here and there). Now, if you use “Nordic” as a cultural trait, then maybe this could apply (as in “a Nordic character” (but then again this can apply to many northern peoples such as Ainu, etc), “Protestant ethic” or things like “Suomi sisu” – Finnic perseverance / spite – all of which can definitely leave a mark on the way of life / living standard).

HDI is a good metric but it doesn’t fully cover all the aspects of quality of life. For instance, among non-European peoples in the post-Soviet space, the Caucasus people, for instance, have very good longevity, a great lifestyle and I wouldn’t be surprised if their health data is pretty good, too.

The current Polish elite have affection for stuff like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium

As I’ve stated elsewhere on these forums, Intermarium is an idea definitely worth exploring. It might be the way to go.

I agree that Hillary was laying it on too thick with regards to Russia (although if Russian actors really did hack DNC, that is very serious and I wonder if there is any way to show proof to the public).

My issue is that both Russia and the US will attack small, weak states, but when the time comes to pick someone their own size, they both get scared. Btw, causing the refugee crisis is a big negative for Europeans and a burden that could’ve been avoided. It’s easy when you’re sheltered by two big oceans and don’t have to pay for your actions (I know you already agree).

Well, at least there was a bit of good news on US / Russia today – the US Air Force apologized to Russia for a very close fly by that took place recently. Maybe it means they’re not as reckless as is assumed on this site and there is some good will.

Oh, and one more thing. As I said, Trump was going to grow the military and he was going to start another campaign which means he was ready to kill many innocents (which means he is just another interventionist). And use us to do it (collect bad kharma). The only one who wouldn’t was Ron Paul.

WeI wish you luck of course either way.

Under the “Russian system” Latvia was the USSR’s Taiwan and Wolfsburg rolled into one. Today all their (and Poles’) stuff belongs to RWE and Vattenfall, they pay Western prices for utilities, live off remittances from people working in Germany and the UK and are mad at Russia.

This is a complete and utter lie. The reason the Baltic states were well off was because they were developed before the Soviet occupation and then plundered. Despite the myths you’ve been fed we had both a well functioning industrial sector and a great civil society. Back in the Soviet days one little Latvia was supposed to feed all of St Pete. After we left Russia, our agricultural input has doubled. We have competitive IT companies. The living standard has risen incredibly, remittances make only a fraction of incomes, this is not Central Asia. Where in the former USSR is anything cheap? Utilities are only cheap in Russia because you have oil. Everything else is expensive, including housing. Tons of stuff is affordable in the Baltics such as medical care, daycare, organic food. Namely, all the good and important things.

I could go on and on. But my main point was something else – the lack of freedom which is still the case for you in Russia. Granted the US currently has a freedom deficit too, but at least the US still has some pluralism. I like Putin but do I wanna live under him? No. I like many things Russian, but do I want to lose parliamentarianism and free press? No. And I’m not talking about fags dancing in the street (which they do in Russia as the most popular Russian pop stars are total flamers who don’t even hide it). I’m talking about pressuring all levels of civil society. You can have a free society without the globalists in charge.

I have no problem with the Russians as long as they don’t start BS lies like you just did above. There would be no need for militarizing if you didn’t constantly start nonsense like that.

This Russian-speaker isn’t happy about BLM. But neither is he aware of Russia’s foreign policy being informed in any way by Dugin’s theories.

You probably don’t even live in Russia. I was talking about Russians in Russia, who whenever something bad happens to the US, rejoice. You know damn well what I’m talking about. And, yes, Dugin’s theories are very popular. The dude loves to talk and just lays it all out. Nobody ever shuts him down just like nobody ever shuts Zhirik down. These guys openly say what the polite ones don’t want to say out loud.

Those aren’t favors to America. We don’t want any of that stuff here either. Those are favors for the Globalist vampire squid. And yes, we’re trying to stop it here too, which means taking on DC, NY, LA, the MSM, the SJWs, the intel services, academia, Wall Street, the Fed, Soros, the Dems, the GOPe, Hollywood, and the auxiliary volunteer thought police living next door; in short: the corrupt and world powerful Establishment. Wish us luck.

I understand, but just because you personally don’t want it, doesn’t mean that thousands of American nationals don’t benefit from it.

Don’t help us but then don’t come around asking for favors from us either such as insist that we open our non-GMO country to Monsanto, that we support American IT companies in the European Parliament over private data protection, and don’t meddle with our Jews, just to name a few. Oh, and I also don’t like our men killing Muslims in their own countries for you. If I’m not mistaken in the second debate Trump started saying something about how he’s going to form a NATO coalition with a bunch of European countries to fight ISIS. Seriously? Right after he says he’s gonna throw us under the bus, he says he’ll ask us to go murder Sunnis in their own countries. If a Trump administration asked something like this of my government, I’d seriously oppose it (ISIS doesn’t directly threaten my country).

I don’t know how well you understand Russian or how much free time you have, but I would suggest listening to Alexandr Dugin. In one of his endless rants, he actually said that Russia should use marginal movements in the US to discredit the US. First, he complained that the West uses Russia’s “fifth column” (the so called creative class, dissidents, etc) to discredit and destabilize Russia. So Russia should return the favor and find a “fifth column” within the US – blacks, American Indians, whatever one can find. And then support those movements to try to destabilize America. So Black Lives Matter fits very well with this goal.

That is nothing new or surprising. Many Russians are happy about these events.

I don’t know if Tereshkova was screaming or not, but Russian women had to work and fight, Americans were more protective (and prohibitive) of their women back then.

AP, I know, trust me, I have thought a lot about this, and this Budapest memorandum is definitely something that hasn’t been brought up enough. The point I was trying to make was that NATO might potentially have to be re-structured in the future, if the US is unreliable, there has to be a stronger emphasis on European security (and Ukraine would be part of it). I know it is naive, but that might just be the reality.

Where did I say I dislike Putin? In fact, I kind of like him. I like listening to his eloquent speeches (even though it is a waste of time).

My point wasn’t meant literally – as in, there is a real tsar’s ohranka or some other oppersive apparatus (but there would be). I just called out the person who says he admires the “veneration of the Tsar”. I’m just saying, be careful what you wish for (and I’m saying this as a seasoned nationalist). Above all, if you’re not gonna show by example and actually submit to a tsar (a real one, not just some Wall street oligarch), then don’t criticize others for not wanting to do so.

Where did I say I dislike Putin? In fact, I kind of like him. I like listening to his eloquent speeches (even though it is a waste of time). And I know plenty about ChK.

My point wasn’t meant literally – as in, there is a real tsar’s ohranka. I just called out the person who says he admires the “veneration of the Tsar”. I’m just saying, be careful what you wish for (and I’m saying this as a seasoned nationalist). Above all, if you’re not gonna show by example and actually submit to a tsar (a real one, not just some Wall street oligarch), then don’t criticize others for not wanting to do so.

Immigration is an entirely separate issue from Russia. A war with Russia wouldn’t be over “Baltic states” or a “Syrian no fly zone”. It would be over spheres of influence and who has the upper hand in different parts of the world.

Since when does a gold digger need to be strong? The only strength she needs is to suppress her emotions.

the Soviet Union was the only country in WWII to allow women in combat roles

I’m not sure “allow” is the right word here.. it should be more like “were compelled to” or “were forced to”, or “strongly encouraged”. Or “had no choice” (this one I actually support – if there’s no other choice, it is ok even for a woman to give her life). I’m not sure you fully understand what the Soviet Union really was. One had to be…. er, “useful”. If one wasn’t, they made them.

That’s right, a Russian woman flew into space way before American women could have jobs in the foreign service.

Re: Ukraine, I agree that a NATO road map would not be the best idea (nor is it that realistic). Ideally, Ukraine should have some sort of a regional defense guarantee. It might sound naive given the current circumstances but something along the lines of Intermarium would be great.

What I don’t get about this American alt-right, is that they are such vivid supporters of the 2nd Amendment – the right to bear arms – and the right to defend one’s homeland, family and property (and life), and yet when others attempt just that, somehow they don’t have that right. How would you feel if someone threatened to take the fruits of your labor? Would you not want to have guns? If you don’t care about the Baltics, fine (we won’t care about your interests either), but you have no right to criticize the Balts for being vigilant. Nobody wants to live under the Russian system. If you want to – go ahead but don’t tell others they should just lay down and take it.

And all these American admirers of the tsars here… please. How many of you know what real tyranny even means? Do you want to live under a real tsar (or even a semi-tsar like Putin)? Do you know what it means to be persecuted by the tsar’s secret service? Why do you assume that you will be favored by the tyrants and not be their victim? Most of you would be.
–

As a Brit, how do you then feel about US Marines being stationed in Norway?

Russian Norwegian Death Metal is an unreal experience.

Absolutely. It’s actually the so called “black metal”, my favorite is Аркона (Arkona), it’s great if you’re into a bit of folk mixed in. I also really like Темнозорь (Temnozor’ – but that one is heavily ideological).

Talha, thanks for the links, those look very sublime and exotic at once. I love beautiful architecture and it’s definitely a feast for the eyes. Interestingly, some of those wooden mosques from Sumatra almost look like the stave churches in Norway.

Thanks, Talha.

Talha, the Amish are, of course, pacifist but some Salafist are probably some of the most virulently militant folks on the planet (although I know that there is spiritual, non-physical Jihad, too). My point was – there is nothing wrong with ultra conservative folks if they exist in relative isolation and do not try to impose Califphate (or the Biblical truth, etc) on everyone else regardless of where they live.

I also find it quite amusing how these recent European converts seem to go out of their way to “practice” the most extreme form of Islam and act like they’re all traditionalist and “medieval”, when this form was invented only a 100 years ago. Like, getting all covered up when, for instance, Tatar or Chechen women only wore small head scarves and their tradition is much older. Do you have any tips on how to put those people in their place? I don’t have a negative bias against them (as long as they don’t act all expansive) but they themselves (the new converts) and the European public need a reality check (they believe this is the real Islam).

And, it is totally possible to have a conservative family without religion. It may not be the most common type, but some people are pre-disposed to it. You are right that religion often helps, but a lot depends on social norms, too (or the ability to resist them).

Not all Salafis are murderers (if the peaceful part of them lived isolated like the Amish, for instance, there would be no problem with them), but you have to understand that some people probably become Salafists out of desperation – for instance, after their families have been killed or maimed by foreign bombing campaigns.

Talha, that might be impossible, because I don’t see anything out there that is equally fascinating, liberating (and “kick ass”) to a young man than that.

Talha,

I was absolutely not implying that Sunni Syrians are prone to Salafism. This is global (it’s happening in Caucasus too) and it is understandable, from the psychological point of view, why this happens. These recent bombings might just produce more of them (in Europe too).

Hi Talha,

Ok, thanks for explaining, I wasn’t entirely sure. Of course, there are “high rollers”, what matters is the structural inequality (if such exists, it helps explain the conflict better, that the poor are gravitating towards Salafism).

When will the likes of you understand that Muslims already have a good handle on spiritual comprehension, the unshakeable Tawhid (look it up), and it is the west with its Pagan Polytheist beliefs, which requires spiritual reformation.

That’s a supremacist viewpoint which should be kept out of Europe. You are attacking our ancestral faith and such opinions will never be accepted by most Europeans.

Having said that, I totally agree that the “whites” (the West, Russians) shouldn’t meddle in the ME and should’ve never committed all the murders of ME people.

And speaking of Syria, I’ve heard that before the war began, there were three castes in this country – the 10% of Alawites who lived in villas, Christians who had an ok life, and Sunnis who lived in slums. I think there is something inherently wrong with that situation.

By the way, there was also Wilhelm Gustloff. Apparently the number there is 9000, out of which 5000 were children.

To be fair, both sides used to do this sort of thing.

I know (whether it is the number one in the world, I don’t know, but that is one of the issues on the government’s agenda and the US embassy takes interest in that too, of course). But I was talking about the residence program through purchasing real estate which I personally don’t support, but which has brought in some interesting Russian individuals (some of who you’d probably consider the 5th column).

Actually, one of the expatriates, producer Vitaliy Manskiy, said he would learn basic Latvian. The reason I bring him up, is because, if you know how Russians make TV and movies, you’d understand the caliber of some of these people. That kind of a person is an asset so I don’t care if he only speaks Russian. Not all of them are actors, artists, etc, of course, most of the Russians who bought “vid na zhytelstvo” were businessmen and former officials who probably buy property all over the world.

Regarding demographics, we are all in the same boat (Poles, Ukrainians, Balts, Belorussians), it’s very bad, but there has been an improvement in the last few years – slow, insufficient, but an improvement.

I highly doubt it (one can get by with just Russian to a certain point), but if they send their kids to daycare they will have to eventually. Frankly, I don’t know what their plans are and if they will settle for good, I think most of them go back and forth. There is a Ukrainian woman who came from Luhansk (waiting for refugee status and hopefully gets it soon) and I know that she is taking language classes. I guess I overstated by saying a “big influx” – what I meant was, all of a sudden in 2012, it seemed that a whole bunch of them had come. It seems like a bigger number than the refugees – our quota for refugees is 500 in two years.

Well, guess who else wants to live in that “Greater Riga”? It’s Russians like Sergei Svetlakov from Nasha Russia who moved his whole family to my native Yurmala. Or a Russian female millionaire from Moscow who just built a private school there. Artemi Troitsky has lived in Tallinn for several years now. There was a big influx of quality Russians starting 2012 (through the vid na zhytelstvo). I don’t know their exact numbers but I’m sure that number is higher than the non-European migrants. By the way, one can live in a city but still own country property or even an estate.

Irrelevant? We never had any illusions of grandeur of saving the world. What matters is the quality of life. But in a larger context, if you add up several countries, it can be relevant and in the European context, countries like Poland and Hungary are definitely relevant.

By the way, I see that religion in the SU was discussed – the main Russian Orthodox cathedral in Riga (probably one of the biggest ones outside of Russia along with the one in San Francisco with those beautiful patriarch paintings) at least some time in mid 80s used to host an art hall and a cafe – I have vague memories of sitting down for ice cream with some female relatives. Yea, that’s pretty scandalous, I’d say, even though I got a warm and fuzzy feeling. They turned it back into a church as soon as they could and renovated it, so it’s a normal Orthodox church now.

“In the next fifty years, Latvia will cease to exist and be replaced by Greater Riga.”

What much of the country side looks like, is that there are very few people with very large, farmed areas. It’s called urbanization.

I’m not saying there is no population decline (even if the total number of the population is the same as before the war, and, yes, it’s not saying much), but to say that Latvia will cease to exist is another extreme. None of this changes the fact that EE will remain as the last white region on the planet.

I agree that that moment is very close. Personally, I’d prefer EE over WE these days for long term living. More and more people will. But by then most of WE will be a terrible place to live. What do you propose? I propose something like an Intermarium space with strict rules. By the way, Russia will not be protected from this either, because many Africans and Asians are interested in settling in Russia. The only stable country is Belarus.

Not in 50 years. Right now Latvia has as many Latvians as it did in 1950.

Another little tidbit: the refugees leave “for greener pastures” as soon as they arrive. Out of the 23 refugees who arrived 21 have already left for Germany. Rinse and repeat.

With regards to “who will be more white” (if we can put it so bluntly) or rather, the proper way of saying it would be “which European country will retain its indigenous population intact for the longest”, I’d argue that those will be the Eastern European countries (including the Baltic countries). Those are the last white countries left on the planet. What will happen within the next 50 years is not that certain, however, I harbor a hope – an alternative scenario. We have seen lately that history moves faster these days. Now more than ever there is a real chance that the Western political system will break. The fact that Trump is so close to the victory demonstrates this.

Eastern Europeans already know that the Western immigration policy is a failure. If nationalist parties gain more success in Western Europe, there is a real possibility that elites could be changed. In that case, we have a new political reality. That way, the E.Europeans skip the multi-culturalist insanity. This is, of course, the “ideal” scenario. But it is not impossible.

The big issue then is only geographic / demographic – what to do with the pressure from the south (which will not subside, that’s just the objective reality).

But that would mean
effectively resurrecting the old Rzeczpospolita (federal
republic that existed for over 200 years until 1795).
Whether this would be advantageous to Poland is right
now a matter of intense debate.

I certainly can’t speak for Ukrainians and Belorussians, or for the Poles themselves, but that’s not the worst scenario for the region. The idea of the Intermarium, while utopian, has been revived in some euroskeptic and nationalist circles. Not a bad idea at all – something that should definitely be discussed given the current geopolitical “atmosphere”. In that scenario, Poland could be the power center to which the Intermarium countries (whole countries, not just regions) would gravitate.

I’d like to recommend
a current bestseller, The Demon in Democracy, by prof.
Ryszard Legutko, a Polish philosopher, that covers
some of these matters, and more

Sounds interesting. Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks for the links, it’s very touching.
It’s incredible what Jordan and Lebanon have done. The countries that bomb should totally be held liable for this.

I didn’t mean that the situation is “ok” or stable by my standards, but by Western European standards it’s “normal”. Not looking at the numbers, but from personal observations, there are more non-Europeans in places like the UK, France and Belgium, than Scandinavia. Of course, the situation in Sweden is bad and changed irreversibly, but in terms of the numbers of people of Scandinavia descent there are more of those than before the WW2. That’s not saying much though.

And this “enclave” thing might work in the US, the UK or Canada (although I wouldn’t bet on it), but in most smaller European countries (which is most of them), this is a very bad idea, because those societies are quite egalitarian and it would just feel weird to have a group of people living separately like that right next to you (and having your country’s citizenship and using services).

I, too, have noticed that the Somalis tend to have very symmetric faces. That is, the frequency of good facial symmetry is high.

I have a Swedish nationalist friend, many of them now gather around Sverige Demokraterna (the party on the right but not the far right). They sometimes have pseudo-intellectual “Identity” meetings (recently they hosted Guillaume Faye).

I don’t understand why these discussions always end up with the Swedes. Certainly, not all Swedes are blond (other nations are blond, Finns might even be blonder). The intermarriage / dating with non-Swedes is not high. Swedes talk a lot about how they are liberal, etc., but when it comes to mating they all desire someone who looks like them (or, often, a better version of themselves, as is the human nature). There is even a subtle self-segregation in clubs.

Talha, actually, if you look at Sura 9:60, it says one should give zakah (donation) to the “stranded traveller” or wayfarer – in fact, that can be applied to the refugees. This is something that I tried to argue with this local Muslim right when the refugee crisis broke out (that the Gulf countries should help more because it is their religious – not just ethical – obligation).

By the way, which Syrian orphan charities do you trust?

P.s. Thanks for posting Sura 30:22, it totally proves that I am right – especially the last sentence!

Marcus, I agree with you that NE and EE people have the right to exist (at the very least). That is a radical statement these days. There is, of course, a unique beauty in our people, but with regards to human physical beauty in general, I think it is universal – every race can have symmetry and proportionality. The Greek concept of beauty also included the convergence of physical beauty and goodness (or the Aristotelian “to kalon” – functional excellence).

I wouldn’t give up on Russia, there are millions of young Slavs out there, Russians, Ukrainians and others. I also visit Sweden a lot and generally things look ok, but the problem with the Swedes is that they think they are the best (yes, it’s a real slogan – “Sverige är bäst”), however, it seems they are starting to realize that they are running out of their “eternal” ability to save the world.

Thanks for the link, it doesn’t mean EE’s are “wising up” – this is how they’ve felt from the beginning. It is accurate and consistent with my own observations. However, what the Estonian people see as a threat is not so much the “refugees” per se, but the obvious lack of control, the anarchic nature of the current EU “immigration” and “refugee” “policy”. The purely ideological, not practical approach to handling this crisis.

Talha, I appreciate your sarcasm, but I didn’t mean to imply that Latvia is any way better than UAE. We could never compete with that sort of a dynamism. My point was that we don’t want to be overrun by foreigners – no matter what background, and I think others in Europe, such people as Danes, for instance, would agree. Latest I heard from UAE, though, was that they are feeling the pinch of low oil prices (too bad for us, as we are currently very curious about that market).

I understand what you mean by people being “tested”, but I cannot accept that – there are those who don’t deserve to be tested like that – the children. As far as those like us, I agree. We shouldn’t feel helpless.

Talha, I just wanted to stress that a relief effort (which should be multi-faceted with as many countries involved as possible) is not immigration. And it shouldn’t be seen as such.

Talha, well, the situation in my country is very particular (our population was unnaturally altered during the Soviet Union, but that’s not the topic here, however, it is very important to consider that even in the light of the recent refugee debate). And to give you the real extent of my position, – yes, you are right, I would not be ok with a big group of Scandinavians or French or any other white nationality moving to Latvia en masse (except for maybe Lithuanians and Estonians but even Lithuanians in big numbers become quite dominant, lol, I wouldn’t mind Belorussians either because they are very mellow). Scandinavians are very involved in this region and generally it is a good cooperation (with a few exceptions, such as their overexposure in the banking sector).

Our government recently introduced a law where a foreigner can buy real estate (or invest in a company) and get a residence permit. Obviously, I don’t like this law (even though my family benefits due to the appreciation of housing value but in general, the way it plays out, I see this as more harm than good). I am also skeptical of some high level Western CEOs that are placed in our companies – they don’t always do such a good job and often it could be done by a local. This is not Abu Dhabi.

Ever since 2012, there has been a visible influx of high class Russians. Even celebrities. I guess they no longer wanted to live under Putin. I haven’t fully formulated my opinion about them, but generally I find them ok (they haven’t been hostile at all).

I’m just giving these above examples to illustrate that I am not a petty little meanie who doesn’t like ME refugees or immigrants, for who they are, but that this is all a part of a wider context. Given our already broad diversity, I don’t think we can afford more.

Also, I have a big problem with my government’s stance that we should accept an Eritrean, but not a Ukrainian from East Ukraine. They argue that the Ukrainian can flee to Western Ukraine. But so can the Eritrean flee to the peaceful parts of Africa. It offends me that they think it is ok to invite an African, but not a Ukrainian!

And, trust me, I really feel for all the people who are affected by the war. When I read about Syria (and Yemen and other places), I often realize that I may not have enough mental and emotional capacity to come to grips with what is happening. I think about Syria every day and take time every day to send my hopes to the Universe that it would stop.

And regarding marriage – it is very easy to marry any other citizen of the EU. What people do for cultural reasons, is another issue. Interestingly, after WW2, when the Balts were in exile in the US, Canada, etc., they predominantly tended to marry other Balts for generations. I know several exile Latvians that came back and married Latvian girls. So it goes both ways.

Re: bands, yes, most of them sing about Celtic or Viking (or Slavic) mythology, but a few of them are into Egyptian and Sumer myths, I’m sure there is a musician somewhere out there who calls himself Xerxes.

Talha, we are mostly Haplogroup R1a, with a small pocket of R1b, and a large amount of N, not like the mostly R1b of Western Europe, it’s not unimportant.

Talha, well, it’s not the same language as the ancient Baltic, of course, but it is the direct derivative.

I don’t see any problems with intermarrying with other Europeans but I prefer that there are more Baltic families (we have a high intermarriage rate with Russians, for instance). However, I think it would be a little conceited of me to have a categorical opinion about who should marry who…

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind a few different people here and there (in fact, we do have some ME immigrants who have integrated quite successfully – they found jobs, unlike the recent refugees who weren’t able to so they left very quickly – I don’t blame them but I blame the European Commission for their short sightedness). What I have a problem with is this prevailing attitude in the “polite Western European society” that there is no alternative to the modern multi-culturalism and that population replacement is inevitable. So my dissatisfaction is directed towards the European Commission and not the ME people. Frankly, I believe the Baltics should’ve joined the Višegrad group in this stance, but, shamefully, they didn’t.

On the topic of culture, knowing that you have such a strong background in humanities, I thought you might find it funny that there is a certain Northern European youth subculture that is filled with people who are actually quite interested in Sumeric and Babylonian mythology. There are metal bands from Scandinavia named Tiamat (primordial goddess of the ocean in Mesopotamia), Marduk (patron deity of Babylon), Gates of Ishtar, and others. All founded by Northern Europeans, I kid you not.

You guys must all know that the King Atli that was widely mentioned in the Volsunga saga, was probably Attila, he was even related to Brynhild. Etzel in the Niebelunglied.

And, actually, no, when it comes to my people we are not in a flux, we still speak the language that is quite close to our ancestral language and even have our ancestral faith. I don’t see any convincing reason to change that or for Hungarians to change that either.

Talha, I’m talking first and foremost of the genetics of my people (and our neighbors), that is the most important. Culture is important, too. It doesn’t mean I don’t sympathize with the Syrians (or other ME people).

Hungary and other EE nations never colonized the third world, so we shouldn’t have to pay for it. When it comes to ME, most people in EE want the “eternal” wars to stop and for relief to be set up for Syrians in Northern Africa.

Corvinus, you’re giving us some old liberal talking points from the 1990s here. But this is 2017 and white nationalism is no longer about “oppressing minorities” (we can argue how much that was ever the case), white nationalism is about resisting the attempt to dramatically and potentially irreversibly alter the European populations that thus far had been intact for thousands of years. We’re at a qualitatively different stage now.

Corvinus,

White nationalism may also refer to whites patriotically devoting themselves to ensure whites dominate society, with groups other than white deemed a threat to white rule and white society.

What have groups of recent arrivals, such as the Somalis, for instance, contributed to the many white towns in America the welfare and infrastructure of which they are now taking advantage of? You want to call it a “threat”, let’s just call it fairness (or lack of).

Let’s not even get started on Europe – or are you going to say that I have no right to make sure / fight for my son to have the same kind of a childhood, in the same cultural environment as I once enjoyed?

gerad, just because they speak Russian doesn’t mean they are all pro-Russian (plus most of them speak Latvian, too).

Yes, many minorities speak Russian, especially the ones that arrived after the war. But, for instance, many Poles and Lithuanians who lived here before, are assimilated and speak Latvian (many Latvians have Polish last names too). For instance, one of my doctors speaks Latvian as her first language but she put Polish in her passport (we can choose what ethnicity to call ourselves and we can have it written down in the passport too). I have some friends who are Russian speakers (now bi-lingual) who say they are of Ukrainian or Belorussian heritage, but they don’t speak those languages. There are, however, ethnic schools (state run), out of 811 public schools 104 are ethnic – 94 Russian, 4 Polish, 1 Ukrainian, 2 Jewish, 1 Lithuanian, 1 Estonian, some schools run a Roma program. Btw, we still have some Russian Old Believers.

AP, that’s an interesting graph. Belarusian is much closer to Ukrainian than to Russian.

It must be hard for Donbass refugees to settle in Moscow, it is more expensive there.

gerad, I know that Ukrainians are closer to Russians (and I wish the best to both, truly) but neither us, nor Ukraine can be Kadyrov’s Chechnya. That doesn’t mean we have to be enemies.

AP, fascinating stuff re: Azov, etc.

Do you think it is true, as this article states, that Russia took in 1.5 million of Donbass refugees? That is an insanely huge number. I know that there is a big “pereselentsi” problem in Ukraine, too (helping them re-settle).

And, btw, the Russian Empire sent in Cossacks to do that.

AP, and I’m sorry about the damn Latvian red riflemen in Kharkiv.

The sad thing is that they were motivated by similar things as Nestor Makhno – their relatives had suffered under the repressions by the tsar after the revolution of 1905.

So, yea, those ethnicities do speak Russian (although the majority are ethnic Russian). That’s why we call them “Russian-speakers” and not just Russians. They do retain some of their unique culture, too. Most of them were brought in as foreigners in large numbers, recently, in Ukraine it is different.

gerad, why can’t you accept that Ukrainians have their own culture / language, Russia is so big, is it not enough that 140 million people already speak your language…

I’m sorry – nobody in the Baltics and Ukraine wants to have the Irish situation. The Irish are an admirable people, but to us, Balts, they are a symbol of what can happen after a thousand of years of colonization. They keep a very distinct culture, now have statehood, but lost their ancestral language. That’s exactly what we do not want. I don’t think that’s something Ukraine should aspire to or be compared to.

gerad, our original point was that Russian speaking Ukrainians are quite loyal to Ukraine – that is something that surprised me when I was watching all these political talk shows on Ukrainian TV. Many Ukrainians spoke in fluent Russian yet not only wanted Ukraine to stay united but were even ready to go to war for that (in fact, I noticed many soldiers like that too who are already fighting – I’m not talking about separatists or their supporters – and it would also be interesting to find out what their real numbers are). The people from Donbass also seemed quite constructive, in fact (the so called opposition, Party of Regions).

AP told me that most of them are actually ethnic Ukrainians who speak Russian now. I guess their ancestors spoke Ukrainian so that makes them linguistically assimilated into Russian but loyal to Ukraine as a state – I thought it was a great achievement because I thought they are ethnic Russians who support Ukraine! Russians in Latvia (most of them are ethnic Russian, other Russian speakers are Ukrainians, Jews, Belorussians, some of them speak their ethnic language too, I think we even have a Ukrainian language public school) are not as loyal to Latvia. Although, at this point, many of them might be (maybe more loyal than I assume, especially to their local cities / regions). The three biggest pro-Russian activists in Latvia are in fact Jews. By now most people speak two (or even three) languages anyway. However, the language spaces are separate – unlike in Ukraine, where I noticed, at least on TV, people switch from Russian and Ukrainian with great ease.

In a crisis like in Eastern Ukraine, this stuff might turn out quite important.

All of them suffered after the collapse of the USSR, none gained.

It depends on what you mean by “gained”. The population “gain” in the Baltics after WW2 was artificial (based on colonization) to begin with. Remember, that in the Baltic states a pretty big chunk of Soviet population was in fact Soviet military and their families. It is only normal that they left, along with other Russians (who chose to do so – most of them didn’t). Many Russians also migrated to the West after the Baltics joined EU. This is not something unusual – it happened all over the ex-Soviet sphere (we have tons of Russians in UK, Germany, USA, etc).

While the collapse did have terrible consequences, those were suffered by all over ex-USSR. I guess if a centralized system fails, it fails absolutely. We can contemplate whether a gradual, steadier and socially less damaging disintegration had been possible. If the Soviet Union had lasted a few decades longer, our languages could’ve entered a stage where they would go extinct, the stage at which the Belorusian language is now. The use of our languages expanded after the collapse. I would call that a gain. Not to even mention many other things, like freedom.

I agree that to even think of a war with Russia is absolute insanity. The thought is almost a little insulting. However, Russia does have an agenda in the “nearest abroad”. We can debate about the levels of interference (or aggression as in the case of Ukraine). It is normal for Russia to have interests in the region, but there are lines that shouldn’t be crossed.

Anyone who understands Russian, would be advised to listen to the rants of Alexander Dugin – he is quite popular in Russia. He believes Finland should be re-incorporated in Russia.

By the way, not all KGB / CheKa files have been opened. In fact, they were recently “made secret” again for another 30 years. No, the archives are not available.

AP, that explains why they are so loyal. Are the ones living in Luhansk and Donetsk Russian-speaking Ukrainians mostly or mostly ethnic Russians that came from Russia during the Soviet times? Or ethnic Russians who have lived there for hundreds of years? I just watched a debate on Shuster’s program with some guys from Donetsk who, while angry at the government, seemed like they wanted to stay in Ukraine. There was no doubt. However, there is a big challenge with the mediation / referendum now.

In the Baltics it is more “ethnic”, obviously because so many people were sent in, but many of them are now integrated and, as I said, very invested in keeping things the way they are. It would be hard to organize a Russian opolchenye without some serious help from Russia (which would be immediately detected).

Oh, and, Pavlo – I, too, wish Holodomor had never taken place. Unfortunately, one can’t just wish things away. I often think about Holodmor when I cook dinner. To think that my own country, in 1933, was so rich and exported bacon and butter… yet couldn’t send anything to Ukrainians, makes me really sad and angry.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes.

Joe Martin Jr, a good start would be for the Russian speakers in Russia’s neighboring countries to not be used as a weapon to destabilize the local societies (in this regard, one can even state that the Soviet Union isn’t entirely broken up because these populations are still living in their “host” countries). Russians speakers should be an asset, not a liability. In many cases they are an asset, however, if Russia continues to use them for “separatism”, everyone’s quality of life will just suffer. Above all, those Russians themselves. I have to congratulate Ukraine on its ability to integration so many Russian speakers – not the ones in Donbas obviously, but in Central Ukraine. These are Russian speakers who prefer Ukraine and love Ukraine. That is impressive. The situation in the Baltics is different, I’m afraid. Thankfully, the moment hasn’t come for us to test the loyalty of our Russians. I know that many of them are very invested in the status quo (that is, not interested to have the same fate as the Russians of Donbas), but it would be interesting to see where they would lean on the X hour. Maybe there is something we can learn from Ukraine regarding how to get the Russians on our side.

Well, I think we should all make up and work to improve life in EE.

In the Bloomberg interview, Putin replied to Hillary’s “Grandfather” statement, indirectly:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-05/vladimir-putin-on-trump-clinton-oil-economics-japan-and-syria

He’s saying that Americans signal to the Russians that this is just “pre-election” rhetoric. We know that he received that sort of a communication from Obama, but I wonder if there is anything this time, too. Although I believe she honestly dislikes him. I wonder how she intends to work with him after / if she gets elected. Especially given that anti-globalist electorates in both Europe and USA are not going anywhere, even if she is elected. What is she going to keep calling everyone on the other side “racist” and “Grandfather of nationalists”? The situation has changed from 10 years ago – the critical mass has been reached and she’ll have to work with these people now.

Another little nuance with regards to Muslims in Russia, is that they all pretty much use Russian as the lingua franca (and use their minority languages only among themselves). Whereas in Europe (while there are many Muslims that come from former colonies and speak, for instance, French fluently), most of them, upon their arrival to Europe, have to undergo a very long process of integration (which in many cases, IMO, is futile in the end anyway). Many Russian Muslims have already been integrated for a very long time and mostly submit to the Russian culture as the dominant one.

Also, my guess would be that the new immigrants in Moscow do not get coddled the way Muslims get coddled in Europe (not saying they are always treated well in Western Europe and that the culture is not hostile there, but they do get a basic living standard, while in Russia the Muslims have to earn it).

This is very interesting stuff, thank you.

AP, well, my impression is that the Ukrainian language (the one that I understand only partially based on the Russian knowledge) and that is used by President Poroshenko and many TV stations, is the real / standard Ukrainian and it is widely used. Not only in Halychyna or the West.

If they meant the Gaelic language, then ofc it is a completely different language. I thought they meant the Scottish accent.

Sure, the Amish are the fastest growing population in the US, but I didn’t know there is not enough land in Ohio left to house many more millions of them. 🙂 Or a number of states in the West which are half empty. (Oh, and don’t tell me the Amish don’t use welfare, which they wouldn’t have in Ukraine). And last time I heard, most Ukrainian women still have kids in their mid 20s.

And Ukraine is not the only place the Chinese are interested in – I heard they are buying up all this real estate in the US and Canada, pricing the locals (white Americans this time) out of the housing market.

All that Ukrainians need to do is stabilize their population. 30 million is still a huge number. And they are still far from that. You don’t need that many people to utilize the resources, one can have acres and acres of well tended land with a small rural population (a few of them millionaires). If the Chinese only lease the land and invest, that’s no problem as long as they are forbidden by law to acquire it. If Ukraine could find ways to reduce energy costs, it would help too.

The age structure is what matters and Ukraine doesn’t have the worst TFR’s. A few more policy improvements and they can reach the Irish level.

There is lots of potential and there can be a great future.

inertial, thank you for posting the map, it is quite fascinating. It is more diverse than I realized. But I’d still have to figure out whether I can understand Surzhyk or not. There is Russian spoken with a Ukrainian accent (sort of like the way Gorbachev used to speak but even more accented, I noticed some women in Gorlovka / Horlivka (which is supposed to be predominantly Russian) spoke that way and also in Mariupol, and probably all across Ukraine). That is very easy to understand, but I don’t think that’s Surzhyk.

So it seems that there has been an attempt to “Ukrainianize” the country. So the language used in the Ukrainian politics is Western Ukrainian, right? For instance, I tried to watch Espreso TV, I understood some, but not nearly enough to make complete sense.

Scots is probably the toughest English accent to understand. I’m embarrassed to admit that sometimes I don’t understand most of it. And not just the Neds speaking.

Romanian,

“Without Communism, not only would we have been spared the extreme left, but also the extreme right.”

This! Very good point. But I don’t want to start another convo about that.

Avery, agree a 100%.

Avery, my condolences about your relatives.

Regarding Monsanto, they shouldn’t have been allowed into Ukraine (I know that they need money and bargaining power but they should be careful). Hopefully, they don’t get to do much there. Ukraine should do like the EU countries – half of them (including Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany) have banned the cultivation of GMOs. The US tried to change that (by lobbying with individual governments) but as far as I know nothing has changed.

utu, that’s right. 🙂 I thought it would be honest in this kind of a forum to reveal identity, to see who is who.

JL, absolutely would not have been there without Ukraine conflict! Even in 2008, after the Georgia conflict, even though there was a stir, the talk of “American bases” was still highly hypothetical. So in that regard, yes, unfortunately, it has spread and, ofc, it is a highly negative development.

But my point was about Donbas. A good start would be for this ceasefire to last.

I agree in that I also do not see a real motive or benefit from an invasion. But the problem is that a hybrid war is a real war, too. With real human costs (not just state of the art airports).

I hope this doesn’t derail into another WW2 “discussion”.

On the topic: assuming (hypothetically), that Donbas was excised and that would be viewed as some sort of a compromise between Kiev and Donbas (Russia).. what happens with the new border of Ukraine? Right now the situation is absolutely unacceptable – Ukraine has no control over the border and anything can get into the country. So let’s assume there is a new border. That whole area is now highly militarized. For Ukraine (and Europe) to feel safe, that area would have to be demilitarized. For instance, during the Cold War, Norway, a founding country of NATO that also has a border with Russia, would not place any military equipment or infrastructure (with the exception of one radar, I think), within a certain distance from the border. They created some kind of a “clean” space there (even if not big). Who would do this for Eastern Ukraine? Would Donbas be demilitarized? It would be naive to think that.

JL, from day one I never fully believed the West’s narrative (on this issue). It is not fully objective, of course. The threat from Russia didn’t appear to me that big (I mean that they could invade in a classical sense) but I might be wrong. My guess was always that Russia wanted another Transnistria. Or some other hybrid scenario – especially with the East still in Ukraine and thus Ukraine could never have (hypothetically) a referendum on EU (like, 15-20 years from now). If they took Donbas, they could no longer have control over Kiev and Western Ukraine.

I’m also skeptical (right now) that Russia would openly invade Donbas, but you never know. Do Russian citizens know?

We don’t know how Ukrainians would feel about giving up those territories. It is a sensitive thing to ask them a blunt question “Are you ready to give those places up?” because nobody wants to hear a question like that about their own country. Would they be ok with it? There is the issue of integrity of their borders – one should always be careful with such precedents. But if they are ok with it, then fine – it might make things easier in the future (unless Donbas is then later used to cause even more separatism, like, in Mariupol, etc, because where does it end, right?). I’m sure the Americans have an agenda, but for us in the Baltics, all that matters is that the conflict doesn’t spread (and, of course, that Ukraine is respected as a country). If Ukraine can’t integrate Donetsk, then it shouldn’t waste her resources (and ofc Donetsk should have the right to not be forced into the Western direction, if they are not interested).

Soarinthesky, and, yes, the legal status of Donetsk and Luhansk in such a theoretical scenario becomes very questionable – what happens to those people? What passports will they have, what status? Who will protect them? What kind of a no man’s land will it then be, if Russia refuses to assimilate them like they did with Crimea?

Soarinthesky, I completely agree with you that Donbas can be used to cripple Ukraine – if Ukraine split off Luhansk and Donbas, they would be free to move on (yes, even with Kharkiv and Odessa it seems). I’m not saying they should be in the EU. But they would finally have the freedom to consolidate the country. There would no longer be pro-Russian vetoes, that is exactly right. That’s why Russia might be more interested in a frozen conflict than a real invasion (for now).

Look, Khan Bodin, I never attacked Serbian people whom I respect, yet you attack my people (pointlessly and undeservedly). Really, what does that say about you as a human being. I don’t want to antagonize you anymore and won’t be replying to you anymore, just want to say that I read ALL kind of sources on Ukraine – you’ll be surprised that I primarily read Russian sources (I don’t watch much Dozhd, btw, although it is not bad), I usually watch the hard core Russian programs and blogs (including Stalinist ones like Nikolai Starikov, and others where they bash Americans and say things like “Americans will attack us any moment now”). Russian TV, too. Unfortunately, it is frustrating that I can’t understand Ukrainian fully, as those would probably be very interesting programs to watch. I don’t get why you think I only watch Ukraine’s official channels, the video from Mariupol I picked was because of its “on the street” content. I don’t know who filmed it, it looked like some Ukrainian patriots. I’m not saying you can fully trust the video, but the people on the street do not look fake or specifically selected. That’s why I was surprised because I was convinced that most people in Mariupol would hate the Ukrainian slogan, but they embrace it. After having watched many different videos, including pro-Russian ones, it is now clear that a political nation has formed all through out Central Ukraine, including parts of the East. This is why it’s not as easy as simple dividing across the ethnic lines. The former Mayor of Mariupol in 2014 said – we are not going to the Russian side, Russia would have to invade with territorial troops to take Mariupol. Then he was kidnapped.

I am not pro-Russian but I like many things about Russia. I don’t support any “regime change” in Russia (that could be dangerous for the Baltics). I am conservative and I don’t support the expansion of “gay rights” in Russia either. So there’s that for you, Khan Bodin. What do you think I should be like a soccer ultra with a two finger wide forehead and only read one set of media – the “right one”? I listen to “alternative media” like Alec Jones all the time and guess what – he is not always all that objective or correct on everything either but he has interesting sources.

But Ukraine must have a right to have peace. Russia is a party in this war.

And, yes, my point about Lukashenka was exactly that – Belarus is neutral (or has put immense work into being neutral, which is admirable). Does Russia who constantly insists that all of her neighbors should be “neutral” (I’d like to see how each country could implement it esp in the current situation) treat Belarus as neutral? Russia started pressuring Belarus when they didn’t jump up and support their activities in Ukraine. So now they’re talking about putting a Russian base in Belarus (it doesn’t look like Belarus is all that eager about it either otherwise it would already have been done) – that’s the end of neutrality right there. Also, the Russian troops are now literally on the Belarusian border. Do they want to attack Eastern Ukraine from Belarus???

I’d say it’s more like Norwegian and Swedish (which are very close but not as close as Norwegian and Danish which are practically identical).

Well, well, Khan Bodin, if President Lukashenka heard what you say about Belarus here not being a nation, he’d get very angry. 🙂 No, neither Belorussian nor Ukrainian are to Russian what Australian or American English are to British English. Not even close.

It is just not true that Ukrainian and Russian are mutually intelligible. I don’t know how it is for Serbs or Poles or Russians who have lived in Ukraine, but I speak perfect Russian since childhood and I could not understand Ukrainian (or Polish) when I first heard it. Maybe 30% max. Even now, having listened to many Ukrainian programs I do understand more, but not nearly all or even most.

It is obvious that Ukrainian is closely related to Russian, but it has many words similar to Polish and the pronunciation is more “Polish” sounding. I would need at least 3-5 months of studying Ukrainian to understand it. They are not mutually intelligible. It is not a dialect!

Living standard is a relative thing… I agree that EE (incl. Russia) have some notable advantages… education is affordable and good. What they charge tens of thousands of dollars per year in private US schools, one can get for free in EE. Private tutoring is more affordable. Food is cleaner, too. Debt levels are lower. Russia might have issues with minorities (and I don’t want to be hard on any nationalities, but if they form gangs or interest groups, it’s not that great), but many EE countries don’t. Probably the last countries left on the planet with white only populations.

gerad, well, that’s exactly why I said that because one of our richest persons who eventually caused a lot of damage by exposing the banking sector to risky investments prior to 2007 was a Russian speaking Jew who used to be prominent in Komsomol. I think he was able to become so “successful” because of his Komsomol contacts and experience (not just because of some innate Jewish intelligence which probably does exist but is not the only factor). Of course, there are also former communist functionaries in power (like everywhere in ex-USSR, as you said) but not everyone is a former communist by far.

Well, at least it looks like there has been a ceasefire that lasted at least one day. They let the kids go to school (if there are any schools left, sadly). 🙁

5371, the rebels, among other things, are fighting for something called “Мировоззрение” – the world view. “Our worldview”, they say. Weltanschauung is the academic term for it. Texas, to some extent, does have its own worldview, too. We could also argue that Alaska, too, is a “little different” and maybe in some ways (re: accents, speed of life) more similar to Canada than the US.

gerad, I agree that the integration of Ukraine and Russia is deep (and as I said, this is why this conflict is so terrible) – why wouldn’t it be? But it doesn’t mean that there is no distinct Ukrainian ethnicity and, what appears now, also a political nation.

Regarding language, that’s a very interesting point (that I already alluded to above). There are actually three main languages / dialects used in this conflict – pure Russian (spoken by many soldiers on both sides), pure Ukrainian (the distinct, separate language) and Russo-Ukrainian – pure Russian with a Ukrainian dialect ((h) instead of (g), a softer (d), etc., spoken by many all over Ukraine, including in the East).

Particularly fascinating (as in, surprising) to me are the Russophone Ukrainian nationals who are fighting on the Ukrainian side. That goes to show that there is not only an ethnic nation, but also a political nation there.