Oh and as for Sibelius and the cultural productivity of Finland-Swedes, one should note that their period of extreme productivity started with the 19th century rise of Germany and ended with Operation Barbarossa. It was to a significant extent created with outside resources.

Sibelius was for sure a gifted man but he still owes most of his fame to finding the right political sponsors at a time when Russias enemies were pouring propaganda money into borderlands like Finland. Eg. when Sibelius made works to glorify the future Greater Finland the territorial gains that he wanted were the same ones that German strategic thinkers envisioned for Finland as a German puppet state. It’s not a coincidence.

The real interesting question is why did 19th century Germany manage to sponsor competent cultural figures when it was laying the groundwork for future wars. The West today pours billions into artists to promote its geopolitics but somehow they manage to create Pussy Riots and never any new Sibelius. (Hollywood still works as propaganda but that’s America’s home field.)

Incidentally, unless I am mistaken, Eastern Finland is the part of Finland more like Ireland, meaning more bogs.

All of Western Finland was pure flat bog land, Eastern Finland is anything less so since it has big lakes and some rugged hilly parts.

I have no idea why you think surnames have anything to do with development. Eastern Finland was (and in some ways is) one of the poorest and least developed parts of the continent, yet they are one of the oldest users of surnames among the common folk. And unusually enough it’s a region with pretty much only common folk (it was too cold for European style farming and traditional slash and burn farming could not support the kind of a feudal landowner caste seen elsewhere).

Ethnic Swedes in Finland were the last people to adopt modern last names. The peasants kept the the son-of-such names (and most Swedish names are basically just this eg. Svensson = son of Sven but at some point they just kept it as a permanent name). Aristocratic names were often tied to title and property so they were not the same as modern last names.

“Sibelius” is an attempt at faking an ancient aristocrat name. The Catholic aristocracy used Latin names but those medieval families are pretty much extinct now so if you ever see a Finland-Swedish pseudo-Latin name they probably have some 19th century ancestor who wanted to fake aristocrat roots.

My last name has a typical Western Finnish landowner story. Landowners used the name of the property and not a fixed inherited family name. My great-great-great-grandfather bought a big property about 200 years ago and started using the name. But Finland had been taken over by Russia and the new authorities preferred inherited family names so it was converted into an inherited surname. Traditions run deep though and my grandfather moved to another property and often used its name instead. People from the city were confused when my dad always answered the phone with the name of the property instead of our legal name.

Western Finns of my region have a really weird history as well. We could be really wealthy and still with zero political or cultural rights. My 19th century ancestors kept buying mansions from Swedish aristocrats to give a mansion to each of their sons but those Swedish aristocrats could send their sons to university while my ancestors could not.

Take computer games.

That’s one industry which is beginning to get dominated by China.

I just read an article on their censorship in China, which China is very extreme with.

This is a good thing as they censor all the woke ideology that ruined Western games. I’ve been playing Genshin Impact lately and it’s so refreshing to not have multiracial gay polyamorous romances in my silly bit of relaxing entertainment. It’s a huge hit that definitely proves that Chinese gaming industry is ready to take on the West although it’s also an example of things that are popular with Chinese gamers and not with Western gamers (gacha + mobile focus).

Predictable censorship by the all powerful Party (or King or whoever) can be good for creativity because it lets the artist figure out the game of getting as close to the line as possible and finding creative ways to get the message to the viewer past the censors. De jure freedom of speech but de facto censorship by activist fanatics like in the West leads to much wider sanitization (since no one can predict who the fanatics come for next) and companies filling their products with pre-emptive pandering to the woke mob.

This is good for building up a domestic Chinese industry, but much worse for fusing the rest of the world to their market.

The biggest problem that China has in exporting video games is that they jumped straight past the personal computer and console cultures that the West and Japan experienced and developed a tech culture mainly for smartphones. We find it a downgrade to game on a phone compared to a PC or a console but the Chinese don’t because they skipped that whole era and went straight from villages with no electricity to the smartphone era.

Hah. “Nordic Social Democrats” were in many ways very close to Nazis politically. The biggest difference is philo-Semitism vs. anti-Semitism. But then, in Finland Jews would happily fight for Operation Barbarossa under the swastika banner so…

The tripartite economic system is exactly the same as under fascism with the difference that it’s not enforced by brownshirts because you don’t actually need brownshirt enforcement when you have jantelaw consensus conformism.

Then there was the same eugenics and race biology. Völkischness is there with the folk-home ideology – difference was that it tended to focus on keeping the country as the folk-home that it already was instead of merging with World War I revanchism and the need to conquer more. You could say that parliamentarism is a big difference to Nazi Germany but I personally don’t think so as I don’t consider parliaments more than a cosmetic thing.

Who’s the most famous “Nordic Social Democrat”? Must be Olof Palme. Did you know that the Palme family was already prominent in 1918 and they were a key force organizing the Swedish volunteers in the Finnish Civil War? Those guys who showed up here marching under the swastika banner, supposedly on the White side but often doing something entirely different than what they were supposed to do (ie. lots of atrocities and backstabbing)? Olof Palme actually died in the Finnish Civil War… an uncle of the famous one.

But Mannerheim didn’t have political clout before the Winter War which is the whole problem. It would be entirely reasonable to expect Finland to have pro-German sympathies based on decades of pro-German sentiment and pro-German World War I collaboration by almost the entire political and cultural elite but it would be ridiculous to expect any based on any assumed clout by Carl Gustav Mannerheim who at that point was over 70 years old with a lifelong career as an anti-German influence.

This was especially visible during the revolution when he fought a series of bitter power struggles against Germany and its puppets in Finnish politics, only to lose all of them and end up having to resign from the Finnish White Army when it was taken over by the Germans. Stalin of course closely followed all of that and he could see that Finland was close to Germany ever since 1918 – not because Mannerheim was winning clout but because kept losing.

Mannerheim wanted to take the territorial exchange (actually he had already tried to make that happen during the Civil War with Yudenich). The government rejected that advice. After WWII Stalin demanded show trials for those members of government who he blamed the most while giving Mannerheim immunity. The man that Stalin seemingly blamed the most was the de facto leader of Finnish Social Democrats since 1918, Väinö Tanner, who was of course found to be a “social fascist”.

Many Finnish Social Democrats were always pro-German which wasn’t a problem for Bolsheviks before the revolution when they were all eager to trash the Tsar’s war against Germany but it became a problem in 1918 when the Germans invaded and leftists had to choose between the Finnish Red Army and the Germans. Tanner and many others chose to collaborate with the Germans and it worked out very well for them, they got Germany to destroy the White movement in Finland, their pro-Bolshevik rivals in the left were destroyed and friends of Germany got a huge career boost in politics.

(That was Stalin, though. IMO the biggest problem was and is that much of the elite that funds politics is ethnic Swedish and German and most of them are going to side with Germany for ethnic and cultural reasons regardless of whether it’s Nazi, monarchist or SJW. One Mannerheim can’t convince them to change.)

Maybe you should just kill or sterilize yourself to your nations benefit. If you still defend destroying economic progress and normal life because of a flu epidemic your genes are clearly worthless and your nation would be better off without them in the pool.

Maybe in a properly authoritarian state we could round up and shoot panic mongers like Znzn. Honestly at this point I think it would be completely justified. The misery and suffering that your types have caused over the past year is far worse than anything the corona virus could ever do and you deserve severe punishment.

China, for what it’s worth, had an excuse to over-react as the disease was new and found there first. They indeed started canceling their measures fast while the West is still stuck with this completely insanity, at least on government level (nobody seems to actually care what the government is saying at this point, people are out partying and ignoring all guidelines).

Chinese authorities had serious clashes with protesters and they brought in heavily armed police and military to enforce their (mistaken) lockdowns. I don’t know what planet you’re living on if you think the Chinese don’t have tons of conspiracy theories over what their secretive government is doing.

The whole reason behind the collapse in trust and the rise of conspiracy cultures in the West is the rise in authoritarian governance through corporate control of the internet and mass media and now increasingly through the legal system with the rise of “hate speech”, “Russian misinformation” and other labels for non-elite approved opinions. Few people have experience in virology and few people are smart enough to pick up the facts easily enough to become pseudo-experts in this one issue but human beings are pretty sensitive to cues over whether they’re being manipulated or not.

The reason we had high trust societies in the West for a while was because we actually did have relatively high free speech and relatively open debates over the direction of society. The elite was mostly content with people with the money or status having more ability to broadcast their views and the counter-culture to this has been mostly focused on “raising awareness” over whatever bothers groups that don’t have elite representation.

In contrast the USSR attempted to enforce total ideological conformity and the result was a very low trust society where everyone knew that the institutions, politicians and media are completely compromised. Now that the West is becoming the new USSR we’re seeing the same happen to it. Attempting to “shut down conspiracy thinking” with the magic powers of “authoritarianism” is just attempting to douse a fire with gasoline and it will have the opposite effect.

Of course, if we had had a good solid public debate over the issue right in the beginning, we would have concluded that the corona virus is not a real crisis and requires no drastic actions.

The Old Believers were Russian, the population that moved to live in the Baltic republics were Russophone Sovoks. Sovoks have no true cultural identity except for the Olivier salad and the cult of the Great Patriotic War, therefore they are easy to assimilate. They are getting westernized and pozzed in Russia proper, of course they will also be assimilated in the other republics.

This too is the opposite of the real situation.

The pre-Soviet part of ethnic Russians in Estonia includes a bunch of Old Believer villages near Lake Peipsi. They were all granted Estonian citizenship and there is no friction at all even though they are still Russians and generally have no intention of assimilating. They have little reason to prefer Russia over Estonia as a state since after all the whole reason they are in Estonia is because Russia persecuted them and Estonia never did.

The part of Russians that have problems in Estonia are the sovoks, the people that were moved in after WWII when whole new small cities of Khrushchev commieblocks were built to support Soviet naval bases, heavy industry and so on – not to mention replace the mass deported “fascists, Whites, reactionaries” etc with communist loyalists. Now those places are decaying Soviet time capsules and everyone capable enough gets an education and escapes to Europe or Russia while the people who get stuck hold on to their hammer and sickle ever harder.

The part of the Russian minority that feels oppressed is precisely the part that considers the cornerstones of Russian ethnic identity to be Lenin, Soviet WWII victory, the great achievement of moving peasants to commieblocks… and of course, since Balts want to leave that all behind, anyone who feels these things to be central to Russian identity really will feel forever oppressed. Of course if any of these Soviet patriots move to Russia and repeat the same opinions there, all the Russian nationalists of this thread who cry about Baltic attitudes will have the same negative attitude towards these people.

It’s the other way around. Estonians and other minor eastern European ethnic groups have always taken it for granted that someone who speaks fluent Estonian (or Latvian or…) is automatically Estonian because it was always true: the Germans, Swedes, Russians, Poles and other masters that took over these places never learned much of the local language.

Thus they’ve asssumed that turning those ethnic Russians into Estonians would just be a matter of getting them to learn the language – maybe you need a bit of coercion to get there but after you’ve done it the problem would go away. They had no conception that people could speak fluent Estonian and still not be ethnic Estonians because such a thing had hardly ever happened in history and in their experience everyone who spoke Estonian identified culturally and ethnically with Estonians.

So now they’re dealing with the problem that they have no idea how to deal with people who learn Estonian but still don’t identify with the Estonian historical experience. The solution seems to be to import Western poz as fast as possible so that Estonians get elevated in status over Russians because Estonians are more eager to wash the feet of black people, more eager to let their kids get transsexual surgeries and so on.

It’s possible that women in the past appeared to like child-rearing simply because they had no choice and there was intense social pressure on them to like it.

Or maybe there’s simply a psychological barrier to actually getting children.

It used to be so that people would enjoy sex, a not so enjoyable period of pregnancy and infancy would follow and then after that period of pure burden things would gradually get better and you’d be able to enjoy bonding with your children. The decision to have sex was also the decision to have children but now you don’t start with that, now most people have had sex for years and the decision to have children jumps straight to considering pregnancy.

In any case, this is yet another futile and dumb discussion of “why don’t women want children???” populated by right-wing men who’ve made no effort to have children. It is the men who are the limiting factor so you need to discuss how to make men more willing. Men never wanted children, men always wanted sex, and there’s no better proof of this than the immense market in selling sex and sex substitutes to men and the lack of a similar market for selling family or substitutes to men.

Don’t worry, I’ve been in contact with Q.

They’ve used cutting edge brain surgery developed under the guise of Operation Warp Speed and the Space Force program to swap the brains of Trump and Biden. What you’re really seeing is the second inauguration of Trump even though it might not look like it. They can’t brief the National Guard yet because there are still Epstein plants in the chain of command.

Mike Pence turned out to be too chad to make a convincing woman so they had to swap in Rudy Giuliani’s brain with Kamala Harris’. Biden will be impeached – remember that when you see Trump going to jail it’s actually Biden’s brain in Trump’s body. The ruse will work perfectly because of Biden’s dementia: he already needs to look in the mirror every morning to remember who he is.

Hillary Clinton is going to get arrested very soon. All is well. Trust the plan.

Shock prediction: Biden actually does turn out to be the next Lenin!

No, I don’t mean that he starts liquidating the bourgeoisie but that he turns out to be a paid agent of Germany, installed to dismantle America’s empire in Europe and to hand it over to the Germans. Western EU countries were pouring money to the Clinton foundation in anticipation of Hillary’s 2016 victory and we can bet that they’ve similarly poured money, promises of contracts and all sorts of bribes into the Biden/Harris ticket.

American progressives won’t see it coming because they imagine Europe to be the superior, progressive and sophisticated continent that just wants to be their friend after they’ve defeated the evil ugly redneck badwhites. Biden will help destroy the resistance of Poland and Hungary only to end up handing them over to German rule and he will fend off Russia to help integrate even more Eastern European puppets into the Franco-German empire. Meanwhile the EU will grow closer to China and it will keep pipelines to Russia open even as they wag their finger about Russia’s lack of black trans lives parades.

Having a non-suspended Twitter account is helpful with that, I imagine.

Not really. The cult of Trump and the cult of anti-Trump can now obsess over the tweets that Trump *would* make if he still had an account and the imagined tweets are of course even more devastating than the real tweets because they will perfectly fit the wishes or the fears of the person imagining them.

Even Trump can’t stop the cult at this point. If he concedes and declares that he will withdraw from public life the Trump cult will just decide that he has to say that because the Deep State has threatened to execute his family and that it will now be up to his followers to carry out the true will of Trump. This can easily go on after Trump dies, actually that might be the best thing that could happen to the MAGA movement right now as then more effective people could take over and claim to be the interpreters of Trump.

On lack of vaccination.

Over here the basic problem seems to be that the government took opinion polls seriously but turns out people were lying about their willingness to take the vaccine. If you want a free vaccination, come to Helsinki, we have tons to spare as all the vaccination stations just have idle staff waiting for the people who said they would come… big boxes of vaccine are going to go bad if people don’t show up soon.

I think they made a miscalculation when they just managed to get most people here to wear masks voluntarily. They softened us up with months of pro-mask propaganda before the fall season, people in opinion polls started saying that they’ll wear masks if the government recommends it and indeed once the recommendation came most people did start wearing masks. Opinion polls seemed to indicate that the majority would rush to take the vaccine and they seem to have counted on it but it isn’t happening.

I think there’s two problems:

a) After a year of fearmongering people are now really scared of everything corona-related which spills over to being scared of this particular vaccine even among people who are generally not anti-vaxxers. Masks are just cloth so they’re not scary and people won’t have second thoughts over putting one on.

b) Once the majority wears a mask the social pressure becomes overwhelming to most. You have to be a sperg like me to walk into a subway car full of mask wearers and just ignore their stares but no one can see if you’ve skipped the vaccine. So social pressure won’t be possible and they will have to either invent another enforcement mechanism or just accept that most people aren’t actually going to take the vaccine.

Obviously Western European countries did not want to be dominated by America but they preferred it to the domination by Germany.

That deal has changed a lot since 1945, though. What we get now is domination by Germany that is dominated by America so the Americans have reversed their original promise.

That Eastern Europe was very happy to be liberated from its liberators in 1990s which were the Soviets it does not mean that the Western Europe equally dreams of liberation from its American liberators.

Or maybe they do but the American “liberator” still appears strong and impossible to defeat.

Humans are good at lying to even themselves so when we are following a rule in fear of punishment or in expectation of rewards we tell ourselves that we are following some moral principle. If the fear of punishment or the expectation of rewards somehow disappears because the enforcers of the rule lose their power suddenly lots of people will discover that they never had such a moral principle after all.

That’s what happened to Marxist-Leninism and I suspect that belief in “liberal democracy” would similarly disappear overnight if the Americans were to lose their ability to reward and punish vassals.

The dead in Sweden are overwhelmingly migrants of southern ancestry, especially Africans. which is also true everywhere else. Comparison with neighbors is meaningless since Sweden has much more people of migrant backgrounds. There is barely any difference in results if you compare native populations only, ethnic Swedes are doing just fine and no worse than ethnic Norwegians in Norway.

The dead in America are also massively disproportionately blacks. This all begs the question: are there racial differences at work? We know that Africans have biological resistance to tropical diseases that Europeans don’t have and it was a huge problem in the colonization of Africa that white people kept dropping dead out of malaria and other diseases. Coronaviruses thrive in cold climates and the ancestors of Africans would not have been exposed to them in a way that the ancestors Europeans and Asians have been so perhaps now we are seeing a mirror of the old problem – that southern populations have no resistance to northern diseases.

Regardless of policy, there is no country where people of northern European ancestry or northern Asian ancestry are in trouble with this disease. None. Even more strikingly, in northern Europe the only ones in trouble are African and Middle Eastern migrants – not the northern European natives and not East Asian migrants.

My grandfather was a Kokoomus MP in the 1960s and he definitely remembered his party being under tight scrutiny (as it turns out the Russians weren’t entirely wrong as it seems like Kok is just a CIA operation now…). Anyway my theory of how Russian intelligence operations prevented Americanized poz in Finlandized Finland goes like this:

The big condition that Stalin demanded from Finland to end WWII was that it was to be banned from deals with “Germany and its allies”. Finland saw the danger of being completely cut off form the capitalist world as a step towards communist takeover so our politicians pre-emptively surrendered to the idea that the Russians would have a veto over any foreign deal which means that every deal with Germany, America etc would get checked by Russian intelligence.

It began with Finland refusing the Marshall Plan – most people would have wanted it but of course Russian intelligence checks on it found suspicious names and organizations behind it. The Russians were probably right and it was a way to establish influence channels and connections under the guise of aid. Note that Sweden received a lot of Marshall aid even though it didn’t even fight in WWII and, surprise surprise, at the same time Swedish Social Democracy had a cultural revolution to change their ideology from running the ethnic home of Swedes to being a country of migrants.

It continues with American NGOs, NATO and everything else that were suppressed in Finland as long as every deal with the West had to first be checked for subversive elements in Moscow. We unknowingly had the best of both worlds – access to Western economic development but with Russian intelligence agencies filtering out all the political developments that come with it. When we began losing that as the USSR weakened we were completely unprepared to resist the poz and we had one of the fastest takeovers.

Devastation of industry in the 90’s was a great crime committed by the so-called Koivisto conclave. Social Democrats in the vanguard in that enterprise.

We had old school SocDem Prime Ministers like Sorsa for decades during the Cold War. They were corrupt buddies of the USSR but they were not pozzed or selling out to the West. Koivisto laid the groundwork for selling out as the USSR was weakening but it got to full speed after the USSR had died and Ahtisaari and Lipponen got to power.

Political development in Finland amusingly mirrored the USSR. The senility of gerontocracy paved way for Gorbachev who was a fool who paved way for complete sellouts to just let the West loot Russia. The senility of Kekkonen paved way for Koivisto who was the fool who paved way for complete sellouts to just let the West loot this country and turn it into a dumping ground for “refugess” from American wars.

Finland was economically successful without any of this liberalism. During the Cold War the culture was largely integrated with the Soviet Union and the KGB watched over any foreign deals that Finnish politicians made so we were not influenced by American media, NGOs and the like.

After the collapse of the USSR we were flooded with this neoliberal ideology and the old social democratic politics is dead. Economically the rich have gotten much richer while much of the working class is stagnating in wages and employment.

Another data point is Japan, economically successful without zero liberalism and now it’s being pushed on them by the American occupiers after they had already become successful. It’s always a bunch of white or yellow men who create a successful society and then the American liberal empire shows up to demand that their success get redistributed to American or pro-American oligarchs and token minorities (who sometimes need to be imported).

As China becomes the better alternative it will make abundantly clear that liberalism is not a part of economic success and societies (like mine) that threw away their protection and ruined themselves with American liberalism will be left looking incredibly foolish. Of course then we might see the rise of another cargo cultish ideology centered around China, imitating even those beliefs and dogmas of Chinese elites that had nothing to do with their economic rise.

It’s all bogus. We’ve had protests, mostly by tourist industry, restaurant owners and so on who’ve been destroyed by the overreaction. You just never hear of them in government media or the big corporate media because Finland is a tightly controlled country and too small to be of interest to foreign reporters. We have to use VK and other alternative ways to get the word out on anything.

All countries are “doing well” compared to the projections of a black plague like die-off that we were supposedly going to get. Most of my boomer relatives who have to rely only on Finnish media still believe that hundreds of thousands of people are going to die in Sweden and millions are going to die in Russia (“Putin believes that the virus is a hoax and is letting Russia die” is one of the big propaganda narratives here).

The only thing that Finland has done well is back out from lockdown fairly early on and that’s entirely due to the Swedish example. Northern European governments observed and correctly concluded that only the very old and very sick need special protection so what we now really have is only hygiene theater with recommended but not obligatory masks etc. Of course there’s less opposition to the measures *now* when they’re considerably more Sweden-like and non-authoritarian than the insane German-like totalitarian mess that we had in early spring.

You might perhaps argue that doctors are useless and thus the collapse of the healthcare system wouldn’t matter, but saying that it’s just the flu is just silly.

Our public health care system collapsed because of the lockdowns. I’m going to a private dentist right now because public dental care in Helsinki basically ceased to exist half a year ago. It was already a system where you had to queue for ages and the extra pause of the spring lockdowns plus making the staff enforce extra steps with masks, sanitizers etc just stretched the queues to the point where they stopped giving appointments.

At the private dentist I of course don’t have to worry at all about masks or any of the other stuff. The same is true of all health care, really: private works because they could opt out of most of the lockdown and hyper-hygiene madness, public crashed not because they would have been overwhelmed by corona cases but because the lockdown absolutely wrecked everything.

I had corona back in the spring and I went to a hospital that was entirely emptied of everything else and dedicated to corona only. An empty building with a full staff doing essentially nothing except waiting because there were 3 patients. It was just a flu but I had weird after effects for weeks – though the doc suspected that I might have caused the extra symptoms myself through bad diet while self isolating (I have problems with acid reflux).

If you really wanted to use an authoritarian system to handle this better you could just use it to suppress any knowledge of the virus and let nature run its course without media panic. We could have all just enjoyed life and some people (including me) would have had an extra flu this year without ever knowing that we had some super special pandemic virus.

Here’s a funny one.

"tHeReS mY BiDeN siGn. dOnT DeStRoY aNyTHiNg" pic.twitter.com/6U0SQ23fP0

— 🌴 Josh Lekach 🌴 (@JoshLekach) November 8, 2020

“There’s my Biden sign! Don’t destroy anything!”

It’s important to push the line that this election is dubious and for that we don’t even need evidence of anything in this election, the liberals have spent the last 4 years establishing the case that American elections can be fraudulent, that voting machines can be hacked and so on. Since we already know that the 2016 elections were rife with fraud and nothing has been done to reform the electoral system, we really can’t trust the 2020 election results.

It’s a win-win:

a) Making Trump a martyr in defeat is the last useful function that he can perform

b) It would be an enormous hit to American soft power to delegitimize the election process and if it’s done from a non-MAGA perspective that insists that both 2016 and 2020 were fraudulent they will have no answer since both of their sides are so convinced that one of those elections was stolen

c) When MAGA sees their hero betrayed by the Republican party it will collapse and leave the US as a de facto one-party state with Democrats as dominant as United Russia. It will be impossible to deny that the Democrats are the actual ruling class of America and it will ruin their game of deflecting anti-Americanism by offering occasional Republican figurehead scapegoats (evil Bush man who turns out to be just fine friends with Democrats now that he is out of power etc). It will also ruin the game of European “leftists” to oppose American imperialism by showing their support for BLM and other Democrat projects.

d) A Biden presidency is the BEST time for Russia + euro dissidents to push for an “election meddling” narrative to turn the MAGA crowd against the coalition of butthurt belt east euros + Finland + Sweden that have fully signed up for the neocon + neolib corruption circuit to produce propaganda and bribes to lure the United States into supporting their grievances against Russia. UKRAINE hacked the election!

Who is going to pay for results that are 100% guaranteed to be wrong?

Maybe the results are wrong BECAUSE someone paid for them to be wrong.

My impression about polls is that they tend to be extremely good when the stakes are low (like, say, in our municipal elections) but then they’re mysteriously off the mark in high stakes elections (like POTUS). This suggests that pollster firms have been using low stakes elections to build up reputation and so that they can sell influence on high stakes elections to the oligarchs who want to manipulate predictions.

The bandwagon effect is real, humans are conformists and Trump likely lost some people because the polls and the media painted him as a sure loser. So whoever arranged the polls to be wrong might well see this as a success.

Almost midnight here. Made room in calendar, gonna stay up for this and already had some alcohol.

My consultation with ancestral spirits says P(Biden) = 0.14 while P(Trump) = 0.88.

The polls will turn out to be mostly bunk and it will be pretty close. I think Trump winning is more likely than not but it depends on the strange election system so hard to say.

He should have stuck to his original line that corona is just a flu and that he shouldn’t do anything special about it, that’s proven now but he screwed it up by going all over the place. One moment he is saying that it’s just a flu and the next moment he’s claiming that it’s the deadly Chinese communist killer virus and that he saved millions by shutting down travel from Chinese Wuhan communist party virus communistland. The inconsistency makes him look like a fool.

You can’t be serious. The “role” of women in these “movements” funded by American billionaires and the deep state is to be actors.

Chile will go from a poor country to an even poorer country while it is looted by the West under the cloak of progressivism. Reforming any small, weak country under the era of the American empire since any reform will just be engineered by some American oligarch faction for its own benefit. Chileans will eventually find out that their natural resources and industries belong to American oligarchs and a small set of local collaborators.

Of course there will be a whole bunch of propaganda about it is amazing progress for women or People of Color or whatever that a few of them will get filthy rich while selling out their country and given that people are dumb they will initially be impressed with the hope that they’ll all get wealthy. When that fails to happen, people will get angry over the deception and rebel against the people who got rich out of the previous reform – but the Americans will already have invented some other recipe for “reform” and “progress” and they’ll restart the cycle with a new set of opportunists and a new set of gullible masses.

Looks like neither of them got vindicated given that we now now that this virus is less dangerous than the flu.

The “naziest” of these ideas is, of course, the greatness of the White race. Hitler spoke of the Aryan race, by which he meant all Germanic peoples, including the Dutch, Swedes, Norwegians, Finns, Swiss,

Finns are not Germanic. Finland is not a Germanic country, it’s a Germanic colony owned mostly by Swedes and Germans and not by the actual natives of the land.

We are not Aryan and were never considered such by even those few Nazis that actually favored Finns like Himmler. Finns were generally classified as racially Mongoloid at that time. Ethnic Swedes and ethnic Germans from Finland were of course considered Aryans and they were eagerly recruited to Nazi organizations from day 1 when ethnic Finns were banned for racial reasons. Hitler did eventually give Finns a racial upgrade but that was after Stalingrad when they were getting desperate.

This was a pretty big deal long before the German Nazi party even existed. Finland is historically a country ruled by a Germanic aristoracry where ethnic Finns didn’t have any political rights. Sweden and ethnic Swedes in Finland were pioneers of race biology starting from the time of Linnaeus and a lot of their skull measuring work went into trying to prove that the Swedes should remain the privileged ruling caste in Finland. Swastika-waving Swedish execution squads who insisted that Swedes are the higher race and therefore have the right to kill Finns and Russians were a thing in the Finnish Civil War before the German Nazi party even existed.

We are now a strange double cuckolded people who have to simultaneously worship a bunch of Germanic colonists who called us an inferior race as national heroes and then also self-flagellate over our supposed racist and colonial history. Finland is definitely one of the countries that will implode if this American-sponsored eternal denazification goes on for much longer.

I wonder what percentage of defectors were gay. There were probably efforts to filter them from foreign stays, due to the threat of blackmail, but otherwise I would expect they’d be overrepresented, since the West was much more lax, as a society, in that regard.

Homosexuals were also much more likely to be estranged from their families. The big limit to defection is the unwillingness of most people to leave their relatives behind and potentially never talk to them again.

We had a mask compliance experiment of sorts as the health officials reversed their previous position and recommended masks for public transport and gatherings. Not mandatory, recommended.

It works exactly as I expected. Women rushed to the store and mask usage seems over 50 % among the crucial Karen demographic of affluent early middle aged women and no one else cares. I’ve only seen young men with masks when they’re in the company of a woman so I assume they’re henpecked enough to decide that it’s less trouble to wear the mask than to argue with their girl.

Migrants don’t give a fuck except for East Asians. Somali women walk around in those oppressive looking tents and they cover their heads but they won’t wear masks.

Americans do not trust NBC, or any of the other Fake Stream Media outlets.

That’s true but it doesn’t matter much in an issue where Americans have no prior knowledge.

When Americans see BLM riots doing damage to their closest city and the media calls that “peaceful protesting”, nonliberals get enraged at the propaganda and the liberals support the propaganda. They know the players and the background context and they already have a side in the fight and that all allows them to spot the attempt to manipulate the general public.

When most Americans hear Belarus described as a “pro-Russian dictatorship” that might fall to “pro-democracy protests”, they don’t get enraged because they’ve never even heard of Lukashenko before and they have no emotional investment in the issue. In such cases propaganda usually works because people default to the only thing that they think they know about Belarus which is the few lines they heard from the media. If you know nothing at all about an issue it’s hard to avoid being manipulated by propagandists.

Most northern European governments recommended against mask wearing so wearing a mask is non-compliance here. That’s why you see almost no one wearing masks here: people are complying on masks, it’s just that the government doesn’t want us to wear masks.

Our media is right now trying to whip up a second wave panic and making front page news about the new mandatory mask policies of various European countries. The government reiterated that there’s no plan to make masks mandatory.

Our right-wing nationalist opposition tried to make a big deal out of corona and the inability of the government to acquire masks for everyone but they were muffled by the media and branded troublemakers for interfering with crisis management. It’s another lesson of what really matters is whether you control the media and the institutions – our media has no problem simultaneously telling us that pushing for masks makes the Democrat party of the USA heroes while the same push for masks makes the True Finns villains.

Nearly all of Sweden’s deaths are in nursing homes and terminal care facilities. Sweden didn’t actually avoid panic either and they thought that they wouldn’t have the capacity to save the already dying so they didn’t do anything to help them.

However in the rest of society basically nothing happened. Healthy young people are not dying, the hospitals are not being overwhelmed, actually no one outside of elderly care needs to even know that this disease exists. So by comparing to Sweden we can see that the correct model is more action to protect the elderly, less action for the rest of society.

And that’s exactly what we’re going now – the lockdown was ended months ago in Finland, no one wears masks, schools open, bars are open, beaches are open, no one social distances and basically corona measures are over for the vast majority of people. The disease is still spreading but that’s fine. We’re doing what Sweden has been doing except with more care on policies regarding elderly.

Also the number of deaths comparison will have to include people who died due to the lockdowns to be at all fair. For example, in Finland many hospitals were entirely cleared and lots of scheduled procedures were canceled to make room for the corona patients that never materialized. They’ve calculated that it’s going to take years to catch up on the schedule of canceled surgeries etc. How many people are going to die needlessly because of this? We’ll only have the numbers in a few years but it’s telling how fast our government rushed to cancel the lockdown once numbers started coming out over the canceled medical procedures.

Furthermore, given how many of the dead in Sweden are people in terminal care homes where admitted people have one month of expected life left, these are essentially natural deaths. It’s really not worth it to sacrifice life-saving surgeries for young people so that 90-year-olds in terminal care can have one or two more weeks of life – which isn’t even a necessary trade-off since you can actually do more than Sweden did to protect the elderly without a lockdown for all of society.

Based on Mike Whitney, shouldn’t Sweden be the coronavirus soft power superpower right now?

It is. All of Sweden’s neighbors have imitated it. Norwegian leaders have apologized for overreacting in panic, ours have to be silent because they’re about to hand over billions in corona bailouts to southern EU states but we’re still imitating Sweden.

Or the US? Since it also seemed to have followed Sweden’s strategy,

What???

Sweden: corona hysteria is long over, people are out having fun, schools were open and will be open in the fall, no one ever wore masks, the people supported the not-lockdown and still do

US: the media and Democrat state politicians are STILL pushing hysteria over this meme flu, schools will remain closed in many states, the leftist half of the country is still defending absurd lockdown policies, there are still mandatory mask policies and other hysterical overreactions all over the country.

The corona coverage over here has not connected it to China at all except in the beginning when it was only in Asia. In the beginning they were predicting the fall of CCP due to its supposed ineptness with the virus but that all disappeared when the virus reached the West and we saw how inept Western democracies are.

The propaganda about Uyghurs and Hong Kong and all that is going ahead full speed but the connection of the corona virus and China has disappeared. I think it’s mainly because the anti-Chinese propaganda is just recycled translations from the US and American propagandists are all leftists who want to use the corona virus as a weapon against Trump. not China. In the US it’s pro-Republican media that tries to keep the China virus narrative going but that has no influence in Europe.

The negative opinion on China is very shallow – people may sympathize with Hong Kong protests but that’s far away and no one wants it to prevent business. Opinion polls have long indicated that the vast majority of Europeans want to remain neutral in any US/China conflict (and they were already saying that before Trump and corona). It’s one thing to have a shallow opinion based on constant American propaganda on the news but it’s a totally different thing to actually side against China if it means significant sacrifices, even if it’s in just trade deals.

It’s simpler: self-proclaimed Ukrainian nationalism is just a tool of globohomo, like Kurd independence. Only fools don’t see that for the Empire Ukrainian nationalism is exactly as disposable as a condom. Will be discarded whenever the Empire feels like it. Nothing new there: fools will be fooled, as always.

For once I agree with you. It already happened to Finns, it’s happening to Balts now and Ukraine is showing the signs.

All our nationalisms already had the problem that they were to a significant extent just tools and creations of Germany so they were always only meant to tear us away from Russia and not provide resistance to Germany. A lot of “patriots” haven’t updated their ideology since the world wars so they don’t have any plan beyond mindlessly obeying German designs and since occupied Germany is the heart of globohomo in Europe they end up thinking that Operation Barbarossa 2.0 will be fought under the rainbow flag.

While it’s a hard pill to swallow for those schooled in the liberal tradition — and I count myself as one — it’s getting clearer by the day that the only remedy is heavy censorship. The future belongs to blue-checks and deplatformers (of unclear politics).

We need the exact opposite. Censorship will just lead to even bigger mass hysterias as the censors will erase “denial” and “conspiracy theories” to enforce an “authoritative” narrative. They will shield virtue signalers from negative feedback so that will get worse, too.

The corona virus scare is a perfect example as we saw all the social media companies rush to delete videos and users that debunked the panic.

But what about the German one, which has been recently unveiled?

It’s completely fitting that the Germans would honor their agent.

That guy is not a nationalist. He’s a “refugees welcome” type who wants us to accept more people from Iraq because his Uralo-Sumerian work supposedly proves that Assyrians are related to Finns.

The Uralo-Sumerian hypothesis isn’t new and it wasn’t invented by Finns but, as usual, Germanic aristocrats. In the early days of linguistics all agglutinative languages were assumed to be one related family and given that the first few identified agglutinative languages made geographic sense as an “Ural-Altaic” family (Finno-Ugric, Turkic, Mongolic, Manchu, Korean, Japanese) it seemed to confirm the hypothesis.

Once Sumerian was identified as agglutinative it was first grouped together with Ural-Altaic but linguists since then have decided that it’s not enough evidence and even the Ural-Altaic relationship has been abandoned. People keep trying, though, because of course if someone were to prove any connection of Sumerian to some other language that person would become famous (at least among linguists).

Their history is never objective, but always hypernationalism not interested in learning about processes, but proving their nation has built all the pyramids, dug all the seas, won all the wars, invented all the languages while being the most violently oppressed, having lost the most to genocides, and have gone through the most violent enslavement.

You are describing pan-Germanism and various romantic nationalist theories that were popular among nationalists of all major European nations. (Afrocentrism is just an imitation or Hollywood-crafted mockery of various Nordicist theories of Germanic pyramid builders.)

Such ideas were very popular among the Germanic colonist elites of my country but ethnic Finns had nothing like it so to me this sounds like total nonsense and the exact opposite of the truth. (I did read one “Finns built the pyramids” book – by an ethnic Swedish aristocrat who wanted to develop a version of their racial occultist ideology as gift to ethnic Finns.)

I have no great knowledge of the internal politics of Belarus but as far as I can tell they’re rather unpretentious like ethnic Finns and I bet there are no Belarusian professors trying to prove that they built the pyramids.

It’s mostly the large nations that have petty nationalism, not the small ones, because the more powerful a nation the more power it has to pursue trivial grievances whereas the smaller a nation the less ability it has to pursue real grievances.

For example, if Belarus had been alone against Germany in World War II , it would have ended up losing a third of its population and ended up ruled by a bunch of Germans and some puppets who would have been told to praise Germany for the liberation. A lot of people would have been seething in resentment but they would have simply had to swallow their pride. That would have been a major, justified grievance and not petty at all.

An example of petty nationalism is the Ameericans after losing a couple of buildings in 9/11 claiming to be the biggest victims on the planet and starting a bunch of wars of retaliation against nations that didn’t have anything to do with attacks besides having roughly the same skin color as the terrorists.

When things fall apart they roll in every direction. You get spaghetti ideologies with each string going its own way. Bannon is simply sliding down the old America-freedom!!! chute. It is a tradition of blunt virtuosity, revival-like slogans, narcissistic self-worship and also, unfortunately shallow impatient aggressiveness.

It is simple-minded but irresistible. It plays on learned half-truths, myths and nostalgia. Even very smart and critical Americans I know occasionally do it. Otherwise Bannon is a good man.

Finland wasn’t yet very woke in the 1990s but I remember borrowing a book by Charles Darwin in high school and then realizing that it’s a heavily edited version where the footnotes explaining away his racial opinions often took more space than the actual text on the page.

He’s safe for now but in a few decades nobody will remember the war to defend Darwin against Christian creationists and then he might be in trouble.

Remember when all the wignats were angry that Trump fired their guy based Bannon and told us that it’s all evidence that Trump is controlled by neocons?

Let’s hope that he really got fired for good and wasn’t just given the job of designing Trump’s China policy.

Perhaps there is a comedy exception?

Give the people of Finland nukes to stop white people (Russians) “
_____

I have only heard of one significant non-white minority group in Finland, and it may be a myth or exaggeration.

White people make up about 5 % of the population of Finland, mostly ethnic Swedes, some ethnic Russians and then various European colonial ethnic groups that were favored by Swedish or Russian oppressors. Finland is 95 % Asian, or was recently as the African population has been rising dramatically.

You may be confusing Finns with the Germanic elites of the country. You should understand that “Finland” is a colonial construct imposed on the native tribes by Germanic aristocrats of the Russian empire and that “Finn” is just a slave name that doesn’t even exist in our languages.

Reparations now!

Chapos? Lol. This is what happens when chapos encounter Tyrones.

#SeattleAutonomousZone now has a warlord. It’s been 2 days. pic.twitter.com/9Eu5ALrINU

— RHGR (@RHGR) June 10, 2020

https://twitter.com/secretdoorpod/status/1270939026975936512?s=20

Well, wasn’t the Soviet army the worlds most immense and powerful antifa military the world has ever seen?

No, it didn’t have enough transsexuals so it was a fascist army.

So why not Putler support for antifa today?

Russia (or someone in Russia) sponsors various “anti-fascist” groups in neighboring countries and they start their worldview from the Soviet victory. These movements do not get along with Western antifa at all and whenever I see these two groups interact the pro-Western and pro-Soviet anti-fascists always end up calling each other fascists.

Our left is outraged that Russians still think they can have patriotic feelings over World War II even though they gave up communism and did not adopt this new rainbow leftist cult. In the West WWII has been completely rewritten into victory over European patriotism, monogamy, Christianity, nationhood, everything that supposedly contributed to the Holocaust.

Mitt Romney and George Bush think they can use the Red Guards to defeat Trump and get back their Republican party.

.@MittRomney is marching with a group of nearly 1,000 Christians to the White House. Here he is on video saying why he’s walking: “… to make sure that people understand that Black Lives Matter” https://t.co/KCxJNchCMs pic.twitter.com/Za0Am2WL8g

— Hannah Natanson (@hannah_natanson) June 7, 2020

Is there any reason to not just embrace accelerationism? Why would anyone show up to fight on the right-wing side if right-wing elites take the side of revolutionaries? These turncoats will not have any friends and they’ll be the first people to go to the camps. If history is any guide, after that the revolutionaries are going to turn on the blacks and then they’re going to turn on all the rest of the minority coalition and then finally they’re going to turn on themselves.

It’s just the usual story.

Step 1) The left campaigns against the right on some issue (this time, race mixing)

Step 2) The right puts up a fight, surrenders and eventually starts celebrating their surrender as a new core Western value (this time, opposition to race mixing was switched with celebrating the freedom to race mix)

Step 3) The right finds out that the left doesn’t actually care about the principle that it forced the right to swallow and that favored minorities don’t behave according to the principle (this time, minorities are the real racists)

Step 4) The right thinks it has found a killer argument and it tries to run the same campaign only to find out that everyone laughs at them (this time, they think they’re going to score virtue points by scolding minorities who oppose race mixing and it won’t work)

According to the same polls (and the same tabloid that you cite), overwhelming majority supports sending in the National Guard so the public is on the side of Trump and not on the side of cuckold generals who love to bomb the Middle East but not eager to defend the homeland.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8384415/Voters-hammer-Trumps-handling-George-Floyd-protests-poll.html

This suggests that the reason behind the seemingly contradictory polling is that the much of the public is frustrated that Trump has been slow to use military against the riots.

My theory about that is that Trump sees a color revolution trap coming. If he does get the army out in full force, there will be some maidan-like incident with video of peaceful protesters getting shot by mysterious rooftop people who will never be identified. The media, the generals, the establishment politicians, the entire elite will blame Trump in lockstep and announce that he has to be removed. They’ve created a coup plot under the cover of the Russia investigation and after that ended in failure they’re creating another story for it.

So this is one issue where we have to wait and see how Trump deals with it instead of launching into the usual hysterics over Drumpf being finished because of some outrage of the week.

Turns out that the greatest hero of neocons and cuckservatives Winston Churchill was just another white supremacist whose statues need to go.

https://twitter.com/madgeorgehd/status/1269661960074821634?s=20

The typical cuck response seems to be that the well-meaning mobs must just not be educated enough to understand how much Churchill hated the Nazis. The rioting PoC actually have a better grasp of history than the average Anglo right-wing cuck and his uncritical hero worship of dead crooked politicians and dead crooked empires. The PoC are right in all their complaints while the cucks are defending a fictional Churchill that has been revisioned into an anti-racist because he was a warmonger who picked Germany as a target.

I hope these rioters attack as many cuckservative heroes as possible. There’s no downside at all to it. All they do is expose the uselessness of the mainstream right-wing which has no response besides “but what about the dream of Martin Luther King??? I don’t even see color!!! why cancel us, we hate Nazis as much as you do???”

Jokes aside, LGBT people don’t demand anything of you, nevermind expecting you to kneel before or sanctify them.

We must not know the same LGBT people.

Our BLM protest was fairly small, 3000 people in Helsinki is proportionally much less than Iceland, but having our genderqueer nonbinary lesbian priests organize it on the steps of the Lutheran cathedral and our police supporting the protests is a good reminder of how thoroughly pozzed this country is.

That church was a gift from Russia, by the way, funded by Nikolai I. Maybe he should have demanded that we convert to Orthodoxy instead.

Why would you want to accept the moral authority of rules crafted by American elite universities? They’re never going to be favorable to Russia except perhaps in the case that Russia gets taken over by some puppets of America.

Russia is strong enough and it has a key piece of history behind it (defeating the Nazis) so that it can form its own alternative to the progressive stack and perhaps lure in a lot of Europeans who are going to be increasingly fed up with the importation of American racial ideology that doesn’t fit their nations history at all. By now even Finnish dissident forums are full of discussion over whether to admit that Russia could actually be the lesser evil and much of Eastern Europe will be ready to make the same conclusion once they see poz spreading to their countries.

Ultimately, it’s all just a cover and justification of power relations. My country is a pretty good example of that. Within living memory we were told that the Swedes and the Germans deserve special privileges because they’re pure Aryans, a higher race while ethnic Finns are Mongoloids or at best a mixed race people so a B-tier race. Now we are told that the Swedes deserve “affirmative action” and quotes because they’re a minority and in the progressive anti-racist world minorities are always vulnerable and in need of special protections.

In the crusades that formed this society we were told that they deserve their privileges because they brought God etc. Culture follows power relations and any narrative can and will be crafted to serve power. What really matters is having the power and resources to promote a narrative and that’s why the American empire and its SJW collaborators are so afraid of Russia: Russian media, academia and resources are not under their control and they could potentially craft an alternative that would appeal to the people that have been demonized in the West, most obviously the evil straight white man.

And he immediately gave another interview where he claims that he was misquoted and that he believes that Sweden has had a better policy than most European countries.

Obviously he is not a professional politician or otherwise used to talking to media so he didn’t understand that a journalist will turn “obviously you always adjust your policies as new information comes and we’d change a few things differently if we had known more” into “we were wrong about everything and regret everything we did”.

Corona was primarily a moral panic over whether people were following the assigned rules and rituals so no surprise that it was immediately over when an even bigger moral panic came up.

Everywhere inside the American empire and it’s NGO-media-academia complex. Every country that has gay marriage will also have a BLM protest and the numbers in the protest will correlate with how recent the gay marriage vote was.

There will be no astroturfed numbers in Russia, China or North Korea but there might be some in Ukraine (would be funny if nationalists take part in it). Taiwan or South Korea. Although it’s possible that the Soviet boomers that run Russia will stage their own recycled Soviet propaganda protest instead of the usual American NGO astroturf (if so then it will be cringe) or that China will think it’s a bright idea to signal for it.

I am waiting for a list of SNPs found exclusively in the Balts or conversely only in the Slavs.

Or maybe you know about mitochondrial haplogroups found only in Baltic women and absent from Slavic ladies?

What about Y haplogroups?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N-M231

Far East Asian origin, very common in Finnic ethnic groups, very low (0-2 %) in most Slavic ethnic groups with the exception of Russians.

It fits perfectly with the old theory of Baltic origins as a hybrid of Finnic and Indo-European people. Some interaction with Finno-Ugric people separated them from the original proto-Balto-Slavs and they diverged linguistically, with a lot of Finnic loanwords, and gave them a bunch of genes that Slavic branch mostly missed (and Russians later picked up by absorbing Finnic and Baltic people).

How many SS members in WW2 were former Commies?

Probably zero due to background checks. Back when Stalin was running things you would have been a complete idiot to trust a “former” communist so they were either interned or put to potato peeling duty.

It may yet be possible to get the white antifa members to have a change of political allegiance, I remember a Tom Clancy novel with a female nazi antagonist who used to be a Red Army Faction member.

This is a dumb American meme. “Communists are authoritarian, Nazis are authoritarian but American patriots and liberals love FREEDOM and therefore they are the polar opposite of BOTH communists and fascists.”

The more sophisticated propaganda version of the meme is to claim that in the communist bloc there was no denazification and that fascists simply switched sides to communism. It’s the reverse of the truth – millions of elite Germans were kicked out of Eastern Europe and there were enormous purges of collaborators whereas in Western Europe a couple of people got hanged, some more were shamed and a lot just switched from exalting blondes to exalting blacks, switched from scapegoating

It’s in the West where elites were just allowed to switch and that’s why we now have the culture of exalting black phenotypes instead of blondes, scapegoating (non-elite) instead of Jews, praising American war crimes as long as it’s a black/female/homo/etc in charge. A lot of the “antifascists” that we have now could probably easily switch to some racist ideology because they’re really not communists at all, just people signaling that they’re on the side of whoever they perceive to be the big winner.

I’m not a fan of communists but the old school communists were determined who were willing to stick to their beliefs even when they were not advantageous. They were not just signalers but a cult with a prophetic belief structure about how the whole of society is is going to collapse in revolution and get rebuilt from the ruins according to a totally new recipe. In many countries they were pretty much the only group that actually violently resisted in Nazi-occupied territories. I very much doubt the social justice warriors that we now have would actually do anything at all to resist Hitler if it actually meant a real risk of meeting the firing squad.

The left has spent a lot of effort on making sure that anything and anyone can be branded “white supremacists” without evidence and that politicians have a really easy time shutting down “hate groups” under the assumption that it would never be used against them. It would be funny if they finally cracked down on antifa by branding it a white supremacist hate group – and they will if the elites see serious enough property damage.

I wonder to what extent the media’s message would change if their office buildings were being torched and journalists were being attacked? Or perhaps they would double down. It would be interesting to know. It’s a pity there is no one putting these rioters to good experimental use.

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1266523296872501253?s=20

I’m guessing we will just hear nothing about that from most of the media.

People should be careful about what they wish for. If the current US political system collapses, it doesn’t mean that it peacefully turns into a bunch of countries like the Warsaw Pact.

A big part of the reason why the Soviet collapse was so peaceful is that its elites saw an opportunity to improve their personal position by allowing it to die peacefully. Give up position as communist party chief of some industry, gain position as oligarch of the same industry, it’s actually an improvement.

American elites have everything invested in remaining the top dog in the world’s top dog. There’s no way for anyone in charge to profit from letting the system collapse. If it starts collapsing they’re going to try to keep it together by force and the most likely resolution to political crisis in the US isn’t peaceful separation into multiple countries, it’s some militant faction taking over in a coup or civil war and a country with the resources of the United States but ruled by evil and competent people with a focused ideology could be a lot worse than the current one preoccupied by an absurd culture war.

If Hong Kong oligarchs have been quietly moving their wealth to the West the way Russian (or “Russian”) oligarchs moved assets to London in expectation of Putin cracking down, the UK is about to become the most anti-CCP part of the Atlanticist bloc. The UK as a whole won’t benefit but a bunch of politicians will line their pockets, so no different from how any other empire operates.

Regarding the rioting, if the Dems can’t calm their pets and base soon they might as well just pull out of the presidential race. Race riots freak out white voters and Trump is a good candidate to capitalize on that. The press will help him by pushing stories about how Trump is an authoritarian racist blah blah which is win-win for Trump as he gets free press as strongman and when his actual actions are far less radical than the press suggests he comes across as restrained.

It also means that Biden is in a bind after he has created the expectation that he would choose a minority VP because a pro-rioter black will alienate white voters while an anti-rioter black will alienate black voters.

In other words, the high elderly death toll in Sweden has nothing at all to do with the lack of lockdown and everything to do with their policies regarding elderly in nursing homes.

If these anecdotes check out, then the real killer in Sweden is once again the fear and hysteria that you advocate as their health officials have assumed a massive flood of cases into hospitals that would require triage and they’ve pre-emptively decided to leave the very old outside treatment. So a bunch of elderly people died needlessly as hospitals refused them and instead gave priority to imaginary young corona patients.

If this is how it happens the next question is whether this was top level government policy or whether it was a decision of some lower level officials who, like mr utu, were morally and emotionally horrified by the lack of lockdown and mistakenly assumed that Sweden would need to let elderly die to save hospitals from being overwhelmed by corona patients.

Either way it’s all further (but anecdotal) evidence against general lockdown and towards the case that all the differences in death toll between countries are about their policy regarding elderly.

Finland shows how to do it: start a hysteria over the need for masks, find out that the country doesn’t have enough masks for the entire population and that it can’t make them fast enough because all the factories were shipped off to China and then quickly just collectively forget the whole idea of wearing masks and resume normal life.

Worked for us and we never even got to the point where we would argue over whether it’s manly or not to wear a mask.

The election will be an interesting test of corona narratives. The polls suggested that Biden was slightly favored to win the popular vote before corona and also by comparison with the previous election we can take the baseline assumption that Trump is going to lose the popular vote by a small margin but possibly win the presidency anyway thanks to the electoral system. Major deviations from that will likely be due to corona.

Corona measures have largely been left to the states and Democrat governors have mostly chosen lockdowns and corona panic while Republican governors have chosen a much more corona skeptic line. Trump has declared that he won’t support lockdowns even if there’s another wave. By election day there will be more evidence of which way is the right way and I believe by then the Republican line will be proven to be better. If there’s the promised second wave and the Democrats push for another lockdown, Trump will win by a landslide.

Sure, in New York they’ll scream murder and journalists based there will create a media bubble again but Trump’s base will think that New York messed up its own affairs and then blames Trump.

No I’m not and you didn’t disprove my point at all but you’re obviously completely irrational about this flu so it’s pointless to continue.

You don’t get the point. Finland and Sweden (+ rest of Scandinavia) have had a passport union since the 1950s. Most Finns who moved to Sweden never bothered getting Swedish citizenship so there are about 100000 people, mostly aged 50-80, who are registered as Finnish citizens but who have actually lived in Sweden for a half century. This is currently not being properly sorted out in most reports of corona death numbers because foreigners have no idea of our little Nordic union project.

Another thing to note is that by looking at the young end of the population graph you see that Sweden has much bigger young age brackets. This is because of current migration. So indeed Sweden compared to Finland has extra people in the oldest brackets (as I claimed) but they also have extra people in the youngest brackets so the percentage of the oldest from the total balances out.

I do not believe at all that there would have been a comparable death rate in Finland if we had not locked down at all for the simple reason that nursing homes in Sweden are run very differently, for starters ours haven’t (yet) been used as a jobs program for unassimilated Africans and Arabs. Finland did get a lot of Eastern Europeans for those jobs but those are more competent migrants.

you won’t because you are lazy and probably drunk.

Oh no, I’ve been found out.

Sigh. You’re just an insane moral zealot whose thinking is 100 % “care”, “feelings” good people bad people evil policies good policies. You are so emotional about this virus that you cannot process simple information without inserting your feelings into everything.

Everyone interested in the comparison of Sweden and neighbors should take into account the simple fact that the age structures are not the same in our countries because of the big migrant waves from Finland to Sweden in the decades following World War II when Sweden had a great economy and Finland was relatively poor. Finland has a comparative deficit in elderly, Sweden has more because Finns of the exact generation range that’s vulnerable to the virus moved in masses to Sweden and a lot stayed there.

The reason ethnic Finns have a disproportionate rate of dying in Sweden is because a much higher proportion of ethnic Finns in Sweden are in the vulnerable age. Finnish mass migration to Sweden mostly ended in the 1970s so Finnish migrants in Sweden are mostly in the 50-80 age range.

Sweden would have a higher than average death rate while Finland would have a lower than average death rate even if the policies were exactly the same because the population structure is not the same.

Sweden is an outlier because of lax counter measures.

So wou wave the other outliers away with confounding factors like data reporting errors, who is to say that the same doesn’t apply to Sweden? You make no examination of factors in this case because you just want support for you lockdown crusade.

Essentially all deaths in Sweden are in nursing homes and the dead are elderly. It seems to me like all the explosions of deaths are in care homes, terminal care units and so on, with no country on earth experiencing any mass death of healthy non-elderly people. This suggests that all other policies are actually irrelevant to death toll and it all depends on how the care homes are operated in each country.

One thing that’s relevant is that in Sweden nursing homes are giant institutions with huge numbers of people (relatively speaking) and they’ve been often used as a jobs program for migrants with low language skills and probably low IQ as well. In Finland that hasn’t happened yet but I’m definitely looking at options to escape this country before I’m old and frail as I think we will be in the same situation in a few decades.

We closed schools, restaurants, put roadblocks on the street… how did any of that protect people in nursing homes? How would Sweden’s nursing homes done any better if they had done the same?

Ethnic Finns are massively overrepresented in deaths in Sweden because a lot of Finnish pensioners live in Sweden.

Also note that since the vast majority of the dead are people who only have a few months left to live anyway and this epidemic has been happening for a month now so you’re not correct to say that the people would be alive today. The more correct statement would be that hundreds of terminally ill Swedes who died of corona in April would now be dead or dying of something else.

Also in the same manner, there are hundreds of Finns who just died of old age who might have died a month or two earlier out of corona virus if Finland hadn’t destroyed its society to SAVE LIVES.

A couple of points about Sweden.

a) You left out the point that Sweden’s neighbors have all moved radically towards the Swedish policy. The movement of Finland, Norway, Denmark towards less restrictionist policy is much greater than Sweden’s move towards more. Our politicians have had long meetings, consultations with experts and they’ve thought about their career futures so their endorsement of a modified Swedish model and the abandonment of the lockdown speaks volumes. (Most likely they’ve calculated that they can simply add extra protections to elderly to avoid the death count and then Sweden’s model becomes perfect.)

b) The epidemic in Norway and especially Finland mainly spread through Sweden so it’s at a later stage. This may have an effect on final death toll that has nothing to do with policy (summer may or may not suppress the epidemic and if so it suppresses a different phase etc).

c) The assumption that “Nordic neighbors” have similar population structures is not good. Sweden avoided WWII, Finland was hit much worse than Norway and Denmark, and Finland remained poor for decades after the war. There was a huge movement of Finns to Sweden up to the 1970s so a lot of Finns moved to Sweden. A lot of ethnic Finnish elderly live in Swedish care homes because their working career was in Sweden so their retirement package is Sweden’s as well. Ethnic Finns are overrepresented in deaths in Sweden so Finland’s elderly are dying in Sweden and this inflates Sweden’s numbers and depresses Finland’s numbers. (I’ll look into this with data once I have time.)

d) We are not using the same classification of corona deaths so there may be big artificial differences in whether or not some very old person died with corona was counted as a corona death. The good news is that given the culture we will likely eventually have our health officials study the matter without an agenda and produce an honest comparison, the bad news is right now it’s too politically risky for the governments in power so we will have to wait a few years.

Most of Brazil is on the other side of the equator so they’re moving into winter when we are moving into summer.

Their population seems to be in two concentrations, near the equator where you have almost no seasons and in the south which does have seasons and of course the inverse of our seasons so their in late autumn now. I have no idea whether that’s actually a typical flu season for them though.

Ah, sorry, I’m feeling real sleepy so I’m messing up my typing.

I meant to say that I’m very very alone in my country which seems to have gone for really unique levels of corona panic with the right-wing opposition only opposing the left-wing government from the panic side, never the skeptic side. There have been no voices questioning whether corona is actually dangerous enough to justify these measures and the press is STILL feeding us constant frenzied stories about piles of bodies on the streets in Sweden and Russia… it’s all very depressing to me.

This has left us in a very bizarre political situation where the ruling Social Democrats were the most corona skeptical party and for the least restrictions but they caved in and led the restrictions. So now they own them, the opposition owns them, and I can’t vote against the government because there’s literally no party that disagrees with the restrictions – only some that demanded even more.

It’s not because of Swedish politicians, it’s because it’s very hard for a government in Sweden to actually declare emergency powers or to override the judgement of experts. They haven’t had an emergency for centuries so their laws weren’t prepared for one which ironically may turn out to have benefited them as every government that did get emergency powers seems to have used them to wreck their country.

Our right-wing, especially the True Finns, pushed hard for corona restrictions while the Social Democrats who hold the PM seat seemed to actually want to do the same as Sweden. The left-wing government caved in and agreed to restrictions.

I think pushing for corona panic has been the biggest political own goal in history by our right-wing. They handed a free gift to the left by talking up a crisis, disaster never came, and now the people that were led to believe that the sky was falling believe that the left-wing government saved them.

As the cost of the measures gets apparent the government might collapse in polls again but who would they go to? All the opposition parties were even more eager for restrictions. I’m very alone with my corona skeptic opinions here.

Vaccination means the spread of a mild and non-contagious form of infection,

Maybe in a dictionary but to journalists vaccination, immunization, inoculation etc are all the same thing and used interchangeably. So two different things:

(a) The semi-guaranteed immunity through inoculation: give some of the virus to a person to get the body to learn to produce antibodies. We know that the body can defeat this virus, therefore we know that this is possible and can be produced quickly with the downside that people might get symptoms.

(b) The not guaranteed further developments: creating a virus or parts of virus that doesn’t cause disease but that’s still close enough in structure to the corona virus to provoke the immune system to produce antibodies. No one knows when or whether we’ll come up with such a substance and side effects will not be known for sure until years of trials so it might eventually turn out to be worse than the actual disease.

When you see the press talking about a vaccine that might be coming soon they’re usually talking about (a) but people assume that they’re talking about (b). If some doc injected stuff into himself and he now says that he has antibodies, it’s probably (a).

Since (a) is not really that different from just having the virus naturally and we already know that this virus does basically nothing to healthy young people we might as well just encourage natural spread among the youth. We could do (a) too as it seems like it would be acceptable to the public in a way that controlled spread towards herd immunity isn’t (which makes no sense but people aren’t rational right now).

The plan of waiting for (b) really does not make sense in a risk balance perspective. We can either have healthy people experience a flu like disease and develop safe natural antibodies or we can rush to give everyone some synthetic substance that has been politically given a pass to skip the usual trials for long term side effects.

Of course there’s already a vaccination method for the corona virus – you just infect a person with the virus and let their body develop antibodies. That’s what a rapidly rushed vaccine is going to be. The “vaccination strategy” is not an alternative to herd immunity, it IS herd immunity, except that you’ll waste time and resources in all these measures to prevent the spread of the disease and then you’ll spend more time and resources on a program to inject people with the virus anyway.

Might as well just let the disease spread since 99.9 % of us will either not notice a thing or at most have to spend a few days under blankets. A small number of people will develop complications – but a small number of people will develop complications after a vaccine as well and the rushed first vaccine that’s essentially the same as being naturally exposed to the disease is rather likely to have a similar rate of complications.

There are more developed vaccines where instead of the actual pathogen they inject you with a cocktail of modified particles that spark a similar immune system response in the body but do not have the same risk of actually causing disease. These are the vaccines that require years of testing to make sure that they have no serious side effects or risks – there have been some serious horror stories when experimental treatments have been rushed.

I was hoping to catch the corona virus (and I may have) so that I get natural immunity and perhaps become a living source of vaccine, eg. blood plasma transfusions to elderly relatives could be a safe form of vaccination. I would also happily be a human trial for the kind of first generation vaccine that’s basically just injecting the virus and causing the disease in me. We already know that this is not very dangerous to a healthy man of my age.

However when people talk about a corona virus vaccine, they expect the same kind of engineered and trial tested vaccines that have been perfected over decades for other diseases. That can’t be rushed and the risks are going to be uncertain for anyone who takes one of these early on. I would not take one of these experimental vaccines now. Why would I risk it when the corona virus is not a real risk to me?

Anyway, the point is, rushed vaccine vs. controlled spread of the disease is a false distinction. The rushed vaccine will just be another way of spreading the disease to achieve herd immunity.

To the contrary, it’s even better advice for big cities since herd immunity in hubs is the way to stop this virus.

Remember when we were told that we need to “flatten the curve” and slow the spread so that health services aren’t overwhelmed? This idea implies that the disease is going to spread until herd immunity and in affected population centers most are going to get it. The health services are not overwhelmed and they won’t be as now we know for sure that this virus is not very dangerous.

At this point the important thing to tell people is that there’s really no need to worry about getting this virus unless you’re very old or already sick. Most people who get it won’t even notice it. Just get the gift and contribute to herd immunity.

Even the majority of Democrat voters have negative views of China. Also, more educated people are more likely to have negative views of China, not the other way around.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/04/21/u-s-views-of-china-increasingly-negative-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/

72 % vs 62 % is not a major gap, though it is statistically significant.

In the current political campaign standoff the Democrats are trying to blame Trump for corona while the Republicans are trying to blame China so anti-Chinese sentiment among Democrats gets muffled while among Republicans it gets amplified. If the President was a Democrat you’d see these roles somewhat reversed.

When alt-right “leaders” like Richard Spencer come out against Hong Kong protests etc, they’re reflexively opposing the Harvard educated worldview, not the other way around. American leftist elites are firmly anti-CCP, it’s just that they want a different type of campaign that Trump does – they want less direct confrontation and more ideological subversion with their NGO / media / intelligence agency complex.

What our leaders should do is apologize over creating this enormous panic over a flu. Masks vs. no masks is a pointless debate when the doomsayers have been thoroughly proven wrong and we should obviously just cancel all the corona measures and go back to normal life.

Mask use in Helsinki among non-Asian men is roughly 0 % and among women a few %. The streets are full of people again and few people seem to take the virus seriously at this point but men didn’t use masks even at the height of the panic.

In other words, the same journalists and polls who claimed that Trump had no chance in 2016 claim that Trump has no chance in 2020.

By election time the corona panic will be over and it will be obvious that there’s no real crisis outside of a few cities like New York that won’t vote for Trump anyway – and the rest of the country won’t have much sympathy for their whining since they’ll view it all as a mess up of the local governors.

I would bet on Trump but betting agencies are in his favor so much that there’s no money to be made (too bad I only made small bets last time).