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    Part One of this trilogy described in detail how Mao did more good for more people than anyone in history. In Part Two, his logistical genius saved millions from dying in what could have become an epic famine. In this final episode Mao spends his last decade ending peasants’ ‘deaths from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty...
  • @Daniel Chieh
    @DB Cooper


    And science blossom because science work, not because it exists on a science friendly mindset society.
     
    Yes and no. Science can indeed thrive and sometimes strangle all other development as the "source of truth" but at the same time, innovative thought can only happen in a society that provides for it. Kyung Hee Kim writes in The Creativity Crisis about how innovation in Samsung, for example, was consistently stifled by the structure of seniority and it takes no great leap of imagination to note the similarities in tightly controlled Japanese companies(besides process innovations, which they indeed excelled at).

    I've experienced this myself - in Silicon Valley, of all places - so I can testify to its impact.

    Breaking this thought process was probably necessary for the existence of something freewheeling like Shenzhen, which manages to exist almost in its own bubble of reality. And its hard to say that it wasn't due in a way to the breaking of the stagnant thought processes, the de-prioritization of seniority, and a reduction of risk averseness that came from a violent upheaval. Its often said, and rightly, that the CR destroyed a lot of the "politeness" of the culture. But the that politeness also imposed some expectations on respect for the elderly, respect for current order, etc, and none of that is conducive to being fast, innovative and disruptive(to use a buzzword).

    It might be a better world, but these days, all that matters is who advance and utilizes/monetizes technology first. Prokhor Zakharov would be happy.

    Replies: @Icm2

    The de-emphasis of seniority in Chinese society is certainly a tangible benefit of the CR. The enforcement of hierarchical culture in South Korea and Japan continues to stifle creativity, innovation, and productivity. While China still lags its more hierarchical East Asian neighbors in most scientific and technological areas, I have no doubt that its workplace culture is inherently more dynamic and better at encouraging innovation. In my opinion, this holds true even in comparisons with Silicon Valley companies. This indirect legacy of the CR will prove to be a long-term advantage of Chinese companies over their international competitors. See: the dominance of DJI in the consumer drone industry. DJI simply out-innovated and outmaneuvered every one of its overseas competitors. Its products were not only cheaper but also more innovative. As a result, it now holds an effective monopoly over the international market (~70% share), with most other drone makers having exited the industry.

  • Commenter Polish Perspective draws attention to a startling new statistic: In my 2016 longread, I pointed out that China was converging with America on a broad range of hi-tech economy indicators. Now yes, Chinese papers have a reputation for shoddiness, being worse on average than Western ones, but absolute values do matter, and quality is...
  • @Daniel Chieh
    @Icm2

    Eh, I'm not going to be convinced on the idea that mobile games are a technological leapfrog in any way - various factors(screen size, controls, etc.) serve to cripple the complexity that mobiles can provide in their offerings. League of Legends remains the most popular game in China, for example, and that would be impossible to reproduce on a mobile platform.

    Its good to hear that there is more homegrown production of other work, though, and hopefully a source for gradual internal experience and buildup. I haven't really seen much indie work, but hopefully that will also change. Is there an active open source community now? I know that GitHub was unblocked but it should not have been censored in the first place. Its toxic to the development of technological skill and innovation.

    Replies: @Icm2, @Icm2

    The open source community is still greatly lacking in China, but there are promising signs:

    https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/tencent-and-why-open-source-is-about-to-explode-in-china/

    https://medium.com/inside-machine-learning/is-open-source-alive-in-china-3f606aafbd3b

    Despite this, overall innovation across all sectors is growing at an unprecedented pace. The country’s drive for increased innovation somehow manages to press on successfully even in the absence of the benefits of open source. I do not see much of an open source community in the other East Asian nations (and historically open source was rarely embraced anywhere in the world), so perhaps this isn’t so surprising.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    @Icm2

    This is indeed promising. Hopefully the OSS community continues to grow, as I think that is a particular stimuli for innovation and the ability to create larger pieces of software.

  • @Daniel Chieh
    @Icm2

    Eh, I'm not going to be convinced on the idea that mobile games are a technological leapfrog in any way - various factors(screen size, controls, etc.) serve to cripple the complexity that mobiles can provide in their offerings. League of Legends remains the most popular game in China, for example, and that would be impossible to reproduce on a mobile platform.

    Its good to hear that there is more homegrown production of other work, though, and hopefully a source for gradual internal experience and buildup. I haven't really seen much indie work, but hopefully that will also change. Is there an active open source community now? I know that GitHub was unblocked but it should not have been censored in the first place. Its toxic to the development of technological skill and innovation.

    Replies: @Icm2, @Icm2

    League of Legends is not the most popular game in China. The most popular game in China is actually Glory of Kings, a mobile game by Tencent whose concept is essentially the same as LoL. You should check out some in-game footage – the overall gameplay experience including graphics is actually somewhat comparable to LoL (also owned by Tencent), which never had spectacular graphics anyway since it was designed to be compatible with even the lowest-end desktop systems.

    You misunderstand what I meant by technological leapfrog. It does not necessarily imply superior complexity or refinement – and even by those metrics, Chinese mobile games manage to deliver a level of experience that successfully draws profit from the country’s massive market of casual gamers, who far outnumber “hardcore” console or PC gamers unlike in the West.

  • @dux.ie
    @bb.

    """what do they do with all the supercomputers?"""

    Believe it or not, wind farm modellings. BBC on site doco http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170621-meet-the-worlds-most-powerful-computer

    And the military researchers whinged about having no access to adequate supercomputers for modelling hypersonic vehicles. http://www.scmp.com/tech/science-research/article/1773421/chinese-supercomputer-too-slow-compete-race-hypersonic-weapons

    “””But Ye’s paper revealed that top priority weapons research did not always get access to the best supercomputers. Some mainland computer scientists said that machines such as the Tianhe-2 were not created to meet specific needs, but to win a place on the top500 list. They were “face projects”. “””

    Dispite what the SCMP said, software engineering did recognize as a notable "double first" discipline receiving special funding while supercomputers do not have a recognizable presence in the "double first" program. The supercomputer projects could be running from "petty cash".

    As such it might appear that the Chinese strategy is not on arm race and hard confrontation but using methods similar to that of US’s SDI strategy which had driven USSR into the ground economically. China seems to be able to do things cheaper and faster. The separation of top supercomputing from the millitary might be deliberate so as not to be threatening. For security reason, military research sites tend to be further inland in places like Sichuan and Qinghai while the supercomputers are mostly at the coastal areas.

    Replies: @Icm2

    This is what they do with Tianhe-1. Only civilian users and applications were mentioned. The two faster supercomputers in China are probably the ones the military uses.

    http://english.cctv.com/2017/02/05/VIDEFGAJAuepjHp7WdWtLmli170205.shtml

    Tianhe-2 (the subject of the SCMP article you linked) has since been upgraded and renamed Tianhe-2A. It is now 2x faster. The military’s main complaint was that it had been too slow, so presumably this is no longer a problem.

    https://www.nextplatform.com/2017/09/20/china-arms-upgraded-tianhe-2a-hybrid-supercomputer/

  • @Icm2
    @Daniel Chieh

    The predominance of mobile games in China has nothing to do with lack of creativity but rather the technological leapfrog effect. Chinese game developers reach a far greater audience and earn more revenue by developing mobile games, not PC or console ones. It also helps that mobile games based around the microtransaction revenue model require much less upfront investment to produce.

    As for their indie art output, it seems you are not familiar enough with this scene in China. Homegrown webnovels, webcomics, and animation have enormous followings, and the quality of some of their recent output is not significantly far behind the standard of Japanese works.

    Replies: @Icm2

    I’ll provide two examples of promising recent cultural products from China (one video game currently in development, one highly acclaimed anime series still in production):

    The development of this game transitioned from being a Skyrim mod to a full-fledged standalone RPG based on Unreal Engine 4. More info and released screenshots/video can be found on the developer’s Weibo: https://weibo.com/u/1587945737

    This animation series produced by Tencent Pictures is based off a popular webnovel about e-sports. Otakus worldwide had a positive reception to the first season, which was released last year.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Icm2

    That video game looks cool, looking forwards to delving into Chinese video games if/when they start coming out.

    Graphics look good, though not superlative. If they have that many characters on screen at the same time in battle as at 1:48 that would be genuinely impressive. Battle/death animation at the very end looks pretty standard, though hard to judge since its just 1 second.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @Icm2

    Eh, I'm not going to be convinced on the idea that mobile games are a technological leapfrog in any way - various factors(screen size, controls, etc.) serve to cripple the complexity that mobiles can provide in their offerings. League of Legends remains the most popular game in China, for example, and that would be impossible to reproduce on a mobile platform.

    Its good to hear that there is more homegrown production of other work, though, and hopefully a source for gradual internal experience and buildup. I haven't really seen much indie work, but hopefully that will also change. Is there an active open source community now? I know that GitHub was unblocked but it should not have been censored in the first place. Its toxic to the development of technological skill and innovation.

    Replies: @Icm2, @Icm2

  • @Daniel Chieh
    @Icm2


    It’s a common for Americans to assume the Japanese have a culture inherently better at fostering creativity than the Chinese due to the popular image of Japan in America, but I have done enough comparative research and had enough personal exchanges to conclude this assumption is definitely false.
     
    Its hard to deny that in terms of polish, though, the amount and quantity of content produced by doujin circles steamrolls anything from China and in my opinion even exceeds American equivalents of "indie art" circles.

    There's a significant difference between scientific and artistic creativity, admittedly, but that's something worth citing. I've done research and there really doesn't seem to be much of an innovative indie game industry, for example, in China. Almost all of the blood there goes to mobile games, and while some of it is quite good, there's a definitely mercenary aspect to it. With a few exceptions, there doesn't seem to be a sense of "love" in much of the work, inasmuch as a focus on monetization.

    I'll be happy to see any contrary examples.

    Replies: @Icm2

    The predominance of mobile games in China has nothing to do with lack of creativity but rather the technological leapfrog effect. Chinese game developers reach a far greater audience and earn more revenue by developing mobile games, not PC or console ones. It also helps that mobile games based around the microtransaction revenue model require much less upfront investment to produce.

    As for their indie art output, it seems you are not familiar enough with this scene in China. Homegrown webnovels, webcomics, and animation have enormous followings, and the quality of some of their recent output is not significantly far behind the standard of Japanese works.

    • Replies: @Icm2
    @Icm2

    I'll provide two examples of promising recent cultural products from China (one video game currently in development, one highly acclaimed anime series still in production):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b9H0k_oBn4

    The development of this game transitioned from being a Skyrim mod to a full-fledged standalone RPG based on Unreal Engine 4. More info and released screenshots/video can be found on the developer's Weibo: https://weibo.com/u/1587945737

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBzUI8oivW4

    This animation series produced by Tencent Pictures is based off a popular webnovel about e-sports. Otakus worldwide had a positive reception to the first season, which was released last year.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin, @Daniel Chieh

  • @jbwilson24
    @Anonymous

    Look, I’m generally quite pro-Chinese. My father is from Hong Kong, half of my friends are Hong Kong Chinese, and I feel more comfortable there than in many other places (despite not speaking the language).

    I’m delighted to see the rise of China as a scientific and engineering world power. China is merely reclaiming its rightful place as one of the world’s leading civilizations.

    Having said that, I also have some reservations about a lot of the asian ‘super students’ that come to the USA. There’s a lot of parental and peer pressure on them to succeed, which generally means that they are forced into fields instead of being drawn to them out of interest.

    My favorite question at career fairs is lobbed at Chinese students when they come up to me and say “I am really interested in machine learning”.

    I ask “why?”

    They invariably relapse into shocked science. I follow that up with “because it is a hot area and you want a job. Have you ever read other areas of AI like constraint satisfaction, local search, representation and reasoning…”. Yes, I’m a bit of a jerk, but I’m trying to drive home a point. Very few actually go into the sciences out of intellectual curiosity in the sciences (e.g., McCulloch, who went to a library and started reading the Principia Mathematica for the hell of it).

    None of them can give me a suitable answer for why they are interested in the field. Big red flag.

    On the whole, I find Asian students tend to cheat like mad. They study in groups, cheat on assignments, and cheat on exams. I had a rather famous prof in a PhD-level computational geometry class admonish his class on account of the Chinese contingent and their penchant for copying the answers to homework problems out of books. They would go research the answers and regurgitate them, which was the last thing that the professor wanted to see. (Recent research appears to back up the cheating claim, by the way).

    I’ve had students threaten suicide in course evaluation forms. Not as a vindictive measure, but because there is so much pressure on them to succeed that they take failure very badly.

    This is not a reflection on intelligence or the like, but on the cultural trappings. Russians, Serbs, Ukrainians and others from the former Soviet States tend to cheat as well, but they don’t have the same parental pressure.

    In my 7 or so years teaching university courses, I simply have never seen a Chinese student who was intellectually curious and willing to waste time chasing a topic for mere intellectual curiosity. Hence, I’m not convinced that they are anywhere equal to the eccentric Jewish and European scientists that tended to do the more groundbreaking work. The next paradigm shift may come from China, but the jury is out. At ‘normal’ science, the Chinese discipline definitely pays off.

    Replies: @Daniel Chieh, @Icm2, @TT

    Whenever I read opinions about the creativity of Chinese students from professors at presumably American universities, I immediately let out a jaded sigh. The vast majority of Westerners are incapable of objectively overcoming the combined effects of confirmation/selective bias and the intrinsic personality characteristics of Chinese. Let me disclose that I myself am Han Chinese by ethnicity, so feel free to dismiss my entire reply if you believe my arguments are invalid for this reason. I personally think anyone who does will forever be prone to underestimating East Asians, but hey, it keeps them mentally comfortable (or, from my perspective, complacent).

    There are simply more Chinese studying these fields due to the cultural reasons you mentioned, so it should be unsurprising that the proportion you encounter who appear uninspired is higher than for other groups. Accordingly, you are more likely to encounter white American women interested in AI who have the “creative spark” simply because they are the cream of the crop; the ones who lacked the mettle or talent were already weeded out early on or were never interested in/pressured to study STEM in the first place. Your assessment of Chinese cheating falls under this bias as well and is thus invalid for evaluating Chinese creative ability, even if you can provide the research which you said supports you (hint: I doubt researchers could’ve controlled for level of parental pressure, i.e. forcing kids to stay in fields for which they are intellectually unsuited.)

    As for personality characteristics, Chinese and other East Asians lean toward meekness and timidity in relationships with a power imbalance and a lack of social familiarity (the latter factor is particularly strong and often overpowers the need for the former in triggering this disposition), such as the one that dominates your experiences – between a student and a professor. Someone mentioned that there is a serious lack of chutzpah among Chinese and I agree. It’s not hard to imagine what specific cultural factors cause this difference between them and Jews/Westerners. On the other hand, they are generally more introverted and this may not be due to culture but rather genetics. However, as prominent American researchers on the subject have pointed out, introversion does not imply less colorful, vibrant, or original thought processes. Aside from introversion, social sensitivity is intrinsically higher among Chinese as well (the existence of “face” is likely ultimately motivated by genetics), and Chinese unfamiliar with the Anglo tradition of caustic humor invariably do not react well to it. Considering your profession again, language barrier is likely another factor contributing to your impression of them being intellectually lackluster.

    Your remark implying the relative creative superiority of Japanese raises additional skepticism about your inability to overcome certain biases. It’s a common for Americans to assume the Japanese have a culture inherently better at fostering creativity than the Chinese due to the popular image of Japan in America, but I have done enough comparative research and had enough personal exchanges to conclude this assumption is definitely false. In fact, China’s much better at funding startups and creating tech unicorns than Japan. Japan’s independent VC culture hardly exists. Expect to see the next generation of innovative Asian tech companies arise in China, not Japan.

    Since it’s doubtful that anyone who’s still skeptical about me and the Chinese will take my credentials seriously, I’ll omit any in-depth discussion of my overall experiences of working with ethnic Chinese (from all of Greater China and its SEA/Western diaspora). I’ll just leave you with the conclusion that my experiences are in accord with what I have laid out here, and I do not believe I am susceptible to biases of personal observation since I always make a conscious effort to overcome them. I also rank personal observation lower than researched information in my worldview. Anyway, I think the biggest takeaway to anyone reading this is that you shouldn’t judge a blank-faced, tight-lipped Chinese (also referred to in the past as the “inscrutable Oriental”) who gives short, clichéd answers as having few thoughts that are intellectually or creatively remarkable. Or, if you are so sure that most of the Chinese whom you have met do fit this description, that their disproportionate presence in your life implies a proportionally lower number of creative minds among all Chinese relative to all Anglos.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Singh
    @Icm2

    Exactly they really expect students paying 4-5x the fee in a foreign country putting their parents in suicidal levels of debt, to party and have 'chutzpah'

    The differences are there but are exaggerated by various factors as you mentioned।।

    Culture is tied to genetics btw

    https://www.unz.com/jman/the-behavioral-genetics-page/

    , @Daniel Chieh
    @Icm2


    It’s a common for Americans to assume the Japanese have a culture inherently better at fostering creativity than the Chinese due to the popular image of Japan in America, but I have done enough comparative research and had enough personal exchanges to conclude this assumption is definitely false.
     
    Its hard to deny that in terms of polish, though, the amount and quantity of content produced by doujin circles steamrolls anything from China and in my opinion even exceeds American equivalents of "indie art" circles.

    There's a significant difference between scientific and artistic creativity, admittedly, but that's something worth citing. I've done research and there really doesn't seem to be much of an innovative indie game industry, for example, in China. Almost all of the blood there goes to mobile games, and while some of it is quite good, there's a definitely mercenary aspect to it. With a few exceptions, there doesn't seem to be a sense of "love" in much of the work, inasmuch as a focus on monetization.

    I'll be happy to see any contrary examples.

    Replies: @Icm2