RSSSoral and Dieudonné are hostile. Others – Jean-Yves Le Gallou, Renaud Camus, indeed several RN cadres defecting to Zemmour – are favorable.
Dieudonné’s position seems motivated by Zemmour’s opposition to Islam. He asks: if Islam is incompatible with France and the Republic, what about Judaism? He has a point. Many of the attacks on Zemmour by Dieudonné’s supporters are frankly unworthy – I think of the preface to Dieudonné’s book against Zemmour, which was just vulgar ad hominem.
Soral and Zemmour had some discrete dialogue in previous years. Now Soral seems to be on the warpath against Zemmour, making again some very unworthy and irrelevant personal claims, that I won’t even dignify by repeating.
Soral’s political claim is that the System/Zionists are making Zemmour rise in order to foster gentile-Muslim conflict and break France through civil war. This doesn’t strike me as credible. The System has different factions within it and does not wholly control political and narrative developments. In this sense, Zemmour’s situation strikes me as analogous to Trump’s in 2016.
The FN ➔ RN rebranding has not served the party well. Becoming softer gained no friends in the hostile media conglomerates and opened political space for a less squishy candidate. (1)
Soral and Dieudonné are hostile. Others – Jean-Yves Le Gallou, Renaud Camus, indeed several RN cadres defecting to Zemmour – are favorable.
Zemmour's breakthrough is rather surprising. One helpful factor. He cannot targeted by the usual media cheap shots. No one would believe accusations of White Nationalism or Neo-Nazi group membership.
Three months before France's presidential vote, Jerome Riviere made a blunt calculation: Marine Le Pen, long the leader of the traditional far-right, had lost her anti-establishment edge and veered too close to the mainstream to win the election.
He defected and rallied behind the campaign of Eric Zemmour, the writer-turned-presidential challenger whose nationalist agenda echoes the one-time aspiration of former U.S. President Donald Trump to "Make America Great Again". Riviere, who was Le Pen's top lawmaker in the European Parliament before he jumped ship earlier this month, said Le Pen had become too soft on immigration and compromised the party's tough eurosceptic stance with her tack towards the mainstream.
"Eric Zemmour says things as they are. It's black or white, he doesn't use shades of grey to describe reality," Riviere, now vice president of Zemmour's Reconquete (Reconquest) party, told Reuters. His defection illustrates how Le Pen's strategy to make her party more acceptable to traditional centre-right voters is alienating core supporters and has left her out-flanked further to the right by Zemmour's burst into the political arena.
Meanwhile, conservative candidate Valerie Pecresse's own talk on immigration, identity and security has toughened at a time political discourse in France drifts to the right. The result is that Le Pen, 53, is being squeezed from both sides. Le Pen, Zemmour and Pecresse are all vying to win a second round runoff spot in April's elections, with President Emmanuel Macron currently leading opinion polls and expected to take the other runoff place.
Thank you sir!
Can’t think of anything like Spiegel English, but there is:
More left-wing/high-brow: Le Monde diplomatique in English: https://mondediplo.com/
The Local France: https://www.thelocal.fr/
This is why I have insisted, and will continue to insist, no matter how much insults it attracts, that betting on a return to good old Christianity is equivalent to parading with a banner marked « loser ». Yet, as I have argued here: https://www.unz.com/article/blood-and-soul/, I think Darwinism is a hopeless substitute. Darwinism is dead. Darwinism is a thing of the past. Darwinism is a conservative, fossilized pseudo-science. How could Darwinism, which is based on the denial of soul, infuse new soul to our peoples? Darwinism is death. I am not claiming to know what should be the philosophy of a powerful archeofuturist movement, but I know that Darwinism is not it.
Conservative culture wars are essentially defensive in nature …and tend to lose in the end.
In any event, there is no point being backward-looking and nostalgic. This is the path of sterility.
Thank you for your comment Laurent. I would argue Darwinism is not conservative but descriptive, scientific, with insights that are fertile and forward-looking. It is not however in itself a politics, let alone a spirituality, which might animate a human civilization. It must evidently be allied with something more spiritual but I am not sure what that might be.
The woman and, if married, the father are the first concerned. But it is obvious that society also has a stake in the child – who may be an opportunity for the society, a burden if the child is misfit, or simply represents society’s perpetuation. The ancients understood this as so much modern individualist sophistry does not.
I would say that this is only true to a limited extent.
America has long been big enough to sustain different television stations catering to liberal and conservative sensibilities; this media pluralism thus heightening the polarization of the population.
Very interesting. What would you say makes the culture wars seemingly so much vitriolic in America than in other Western countries?
Who benefits?
Very interesting. What would you say makes the culture wars seemingly so much vitriolic in America than in other Western countries?
Could it be the fact that American national identity was based right from the start on ideology? The Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights - all profoundly ideological foundations for a national identity.
What would you say makes the culture wars seemingly so much vitriolic in America than in other Western countries?
Could you expand a bit on how this Zionism manifests itself?
Indeed, uber-gentrified Paris is currently governed by a Socialist-Green-Communist coalition with strong Zionist
A good question. Zionism manifests in French politics in a few major ways:
* Influence of Jewish activist organizations (CRIF, LICRA, B’nai B’rith) before which French politicians genuflect (e.g. senior politicians’ attendance of these lobbies events is a good marker of ethnic power, ~1000 politicians will go to CRIF dinners, whereas only ~200 will go to the black lobby’s [CRAN]).
* A general shift in French foreign policy from a pro-Arab or balanced stance to a pro-Israel one since Nicolas Sarkozy. This is also the standard position among senior left-wing politicians, despite the (substantially Muslim/colorful) base being pro-Palestinian. Witnessed in the change of position of politicians like Manuel Valls as they rose up the ladder.
* Strong lobbying in favor of holocaustian and anti-racist censorship legislation.
* The cordon sanitaire barring the conservatives from allying with the Front/Rassemblement National – even though the Socialists happily work with the Communists – which Jacques Chirac instituted at the specific request of the B’nai B’rith.
So, as a general rule, Zionist lobbies in France distort French politics in the direction of pro-Israel foreign policy and anti-nationalist, multiculturalist domestic policy, backed by censorious legislation; over and above native French trends in these directions (which do exist). Jewish privilege in France, it seems to me, manifests in a less transparent and more insecure way than in the United States. American Jews have a very comfortable position in elite American “civil society”: financing of political parties, top media, Ivy Leagues, elite law firms.. In France, things seem much more dependent on these ethnic lobbies’ relationship with the ruling party. Their influence seems much more insecure.
You can find more in my early articles for The Occidental Observer.
Except that the entire core of French politics is decided in the background almost exclusively by Tribal actors: Alain Minc for economics, Jacques Attali for long-term planning and prospective, and Bernard Henry Levy for military interventions.We, also, have had 9/11 replicas many times over, every time a politician tried to deviate from the Israeli line. The 2015 series of bloody terrorist massacres occurred after the French parliament envisaged applying a timid form of boycott on products from Israeli colonies in occupied Palestine.Stating that the Zionist lobby in France is somewhat less powerful than the Zionist lobby in the USA is laughable. France is no less an Israeli colony now, just for slightly different reasons .
In France, things seem much more dependent on these ethnic lobbies’ relationship with the ruling party. Their influence seems much more insecure.
But how good are the actual policies in Denmark? How great are European and non-European immigration?
In my evaluation the Danish state generally pursues an assimilative “Liberalism in One Country” policy.
As part of this the government tries to break up parallel societies and manage the negative outcomes of foreign residents.
One policy is to designate a maximum of ethnic minority pupils not only each school but also, IIRC, in each classroom.
Another is the infamous “Ghetto law”:
Denmark has compiled this “ghetto list” annually since 2010; the criteria are higher than average jobless and crime rates, lower than average educational attainment and, controversially, more than half of the population being first or second-generation migrants. The government essentially sees these neighbourhoods as irremediable urban disasters, and in May 2018 it proposed dealing with them by mass eviction and reconstruction. The homes of up to 11,000 social housing tenants could be on the chopping block.
[…]
In addition, the law itself applies differently in these neighbourhoods. The first stage of the government’s so-called ghetto deal set higher penalties for crimes, and allowed for collective punishment – by eviction – of entire families if one of their members commits a criminal act.
Other laws seem designed to force the integration in Danish society of immigrant communities. Pre-school children must spend at least 25 hours a week in state kindergartens with a maximum migrant intake of 30%, and face language tests. Otherwise their families’ benefits can be revoked.
But the most stringent part of the plan came into force on 1 January 2020, when these areas must slash their public housing stock to no more than 40%. To achieve this within 10 years, entire blocks will be emptied and converted into private and co-operative housing, from which people on low incomes will be barred. In some cities (though not Copenhagen) the blocks will simply be demolished.
Current tenants will be offered alternative accommodation, but no control over its location, quality or cost. Those who refuse can now simply be evicted. Adding insult to injury, the eviction and renovation plans will be paid for from proceeds from a fund paid into by public housing tenants themselves.
Recently there is increased funding for apartments and social workers for victims of “negative social control”, meaning Muslim honour culture, a measure having been pushed for by the Leftist parties.
https://www.bt.dk/politik/fire-exit-boliger-oprettes-i-ny-aftale-mod-social-kontrol
A prohibition on niqab and burka and other face coverings in public, introduced in 2018.
The government has also recently voiced criticism of the social services lack of reaction to the domestic mistreatment of immigrant children including corporal punishment and forcible veiling.
https://www.kristeligt-dagblad.dk/danmark/regeringen-vil-anbringe-flere-indvandrerborn
—-
As for Danish demographics, the state has for years divided up immigrants into Western and non-Western origin.
A note on how the Danish government defines “Western” and “Non-Western” groups:
Western – Anglosphere +EU and associated states like Norway, Switzerland, Andorra, etc.
Non-Western: Ex-Yugoslavia minus Slovenia and Croatia, Russia, Ukraine, Bielorussia, rest of the world.
Not perfect since there are some false positives and negatives but capable for working measures.
Currently the definition of “Danish origin” is: At least one parent is born in Denmark and possesses Danish citizenship (born or acquired) as well as no dual citizenship.
I thought that would lead to false positives where Non-Western decendants are classified as Danish but this chart seems to separate them into “Children of decendants: Danish origin” (the red part). (I remember there was some debate over how to prevent the false positives, but was not aware that it was implemented).
I don’t think there is much in English but the statistics themselves are available here.
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-106/#comment-3978079
A few months ago the government announced a further clarification on the demographic state statistics:
Denmark currently sorts immigrants into those of ‘Western’ (EU, UK, US, Canada and Australia) and ‘Non-Western’ (everywhere else) origin in immigration and other population statistics.
However, Immigration and Integration Minister Mattias Tesfaye has now announced the introduction of the so-called MENAPT group (Middle East, North Africa, Pakistan and Turkey), a separate category in official statistics.
“We need more honest numbers, and I think it will benefit and qualify the integration debate if we get these figures out in the open, because fundamentally, they show that we in Denmark don’t really have problems with people from Latin America and the Far East. We have problems with people from the Middle East and North Africa,” Tesfaye said.
[…]
In 2018, 4.6 percent of young men from MENAPT countries were convicted of committing a crime, compared with 1.8 percent from all the other 190 non-Western countries on the list combined.
The same year, MENAPT women had a 41.9 percent employment rate while women from other non-Western, non-MENAPT countries boasted a 61.6 employment rate.
Descendants of immigrants will now also be classified as foreign under the new statistical regime, despite being born in Denmark. Curiously, Tesfaye, who describes himself as “half Ethiopian and 100 percent Danish,” falls under this category, and insists “I think you should be proud of who you are.”
Immigrants and their descendants account for roughly 14 percent of Denmark’s 5.8 million population, while those from the MENAPT group specifically account for 54.5 percent of the total 516,000 non-Western classification.
“These new figures will provide a more honest political discussion about the minority of immigrants who create very great challenges for our society,” Tesfaye claims.
[…]
Tesfaye added that the creation of new designations for immigrant groups is not a tool in and of itself, but merely a means by which politicians can make better-informed policy decisions in future.
https://www.rt.com/news/509712-denmark-mena-immigrant-crime-statistics/
While I would have liked the break up some of the remaining non-Western groups into more specific categories like Sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, South Asia and the Far East, it is an overall significant improvement in its statistical utility.
——
So to summarise (presumably pre-Coronavirus situation) near-contemporary Danish demographics:
Western immigrants 5.1%
MENAPT immigrants – 4.8%
Remaining non-Western immigrants – 4.0%
Ethnic Danes – 86.1%
The “conspiracy” seems to be believing that this process is intentionally done to dilute the power of native Europeans in their homelands. It is hard to know if this is really the case or if it is just another byproduct of Finance Capitalism and a desire for more debtors, but the end results are the same. A more realistic scenario would be that there are multiple interests, you have the Capitalists who have tunnel vision and chase after economic growth at all costs, you have native Leftists who have some weird ethno-masochist tendencies and are willing to shaft their ethnic compatriots in order to spite the Rightists, and then of course you have the various ethnic activists who really are pursuing demographic warfare, to promote their own group’s genetic interests.
Yes, they exist - and they come with something attached to them which is an old concept now and part of the philosophical universalism they maintain - and that is: Their traditional internationalism. Don't underestimate that. It is the precise equivalent of -- God (for those prone to linguistic jokes: They are never frustrated by the real-world outcomes of their idealism (in Marxism masked as materialism) because the most important part of it is that it is a place-holder for God in that it represents - - - - - - - - - - - - the unexpected, the inexplicable = transcendence & translucent dialectical transgressions of all imaginable kinds (for a shortcut here: think of PARADISE (including sexual liberation (Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse, Masters/Johnson, Lennon/Ono, Bhagwan/Osho...) and boundless pleasures an' all that)). In other words: The left's heaven is internationalism****. And this heaven should not be underestimated since whishes are - cf. Deleuze/Guattari - what (cf. Freud) drives our bodies (=our souls / deep down inside.... = us human beings).**** and internationalism stands in here for: It is always more pleasurable elsewhere than where we are right now (that's the deepest secret of the left's internationalism).
have native Leftists who have some weird ethno-masochist tendencies and are willing to shaft their ethnic compatriots in order to spite the Rightists
The root problem is liberalism, specifically second wave feminism and birth control. Without a major cultural shift promoting marriage and family formation as the preferred activity for White Europeans in their twenties this ship is not going to turn around. It could be done if the propaganda organs were to be seized.Replies: @showmethereal
The “conspiracy” seems to be believing that this process is intentionally done to dilute the power of native Europeans in their homelands. It is hard to know if this is really the case
As Barbara Lerner Spectre reminded us all, there is one pivotal driver for this catastrophic phenomenon....
The “conspiracy” seems to be believing that this process is intentionally done to dilute the power of native Europeans in their homelands. It is hard to know if this is really the case...
Hello Dieter, thanks for your comment. Noteworthy that this is mainstream Danish political discourse. Contrast Sweden! But how good are the actual policies in Denmark? How great are European and non-European immigration?
They have recently improved a lot when it comes to certain kinds of crime.
Contrast Sweden! But how good are the actual policies in Denmark?
I’d say we need cultured thugs, as Jonathan Bowden said. It’s no good having brawn without brains (and vice versa).
Indeed, Perry Anderson’s knowledge of the EU and major national political cultures – British, French, Italian, German – is remarkable.
I agree you need to speak the language of whatever nation you are studying. Jon Toland got away with not speaking German and was still interesting because he directly interviewed so many of the participants, but knowledge certainly would have helped (e.g. he had to rely on questionable English translation of the Table Talk).
Thanks for the suggestions, these both look interesting!
While I see where you are coming from, I have to strongly disagree:
1) Typically there is considerable debate among historians. There isn’t, on most issues, just one narrative but a debate. The problem usually isn’t that you’re getting only one story, but many, and cannot come to any firm conclusion but “who knows?”
2) I value STEM but it’s not much good if it’s narrow and ignorant of wider human issues. Many of best commentators, I find, are those that are both scientifically literate and cultured in the wider sense. In particular, the humanities and social sciences need to be informed by the latest human life sciences (evolutionary psychology, genetics). In fact, there’s often a wonderful congruence between the two: the issues explored by life scientists were already explored and compellingly expressed by Homer, Shakespeare, etc. Conversely, I know too many STEM educated ignoramuses.
"I’m cautious enough to get out of the way should nukes start to fly due to the US constantly pissing off China and Russia. The US military hasn’t won a war since WW-II and even in that one, Russia did most of the fighting with the US taking the bulk of the credit. . .My calculations say I’m doing more than you are because you haven’t the balls to do what I’ve already done."
This seems to be mostly due to the subsequent "weaponization" of history to help further political aims. A way to avoid the problem, is to write history using primarily contemporary sources/documentation in an open minded way. For example: Stanley G. Payne "The Spanish Civil War" Cambridge University Press 2012 or David Irving's "Hitler's War" Hodder& Staughton Ltd. 1977 and "Warpath" Michael Joseph Ltd. 1978Also everything done by Oleg Khlevniuk using Russian state archives (for example "Master of the House: Stalin and His Inner Circle" Yale University Press 2008).Original sources are effective because they can seriously interfere with the dominant propaganda. For example, by showing the "Holocaust" to be such a feeble travesty of history that it has to be legally elevated to religious status with questioning defined as criminal heresy ( and that's in supposedly enlightened free speech Western democracies).
1) Typically there is considerable debate among historians. There isn’t, on most issues, just one narrative but a debate. The problem usually isn’t that you’re getting only one story, but many, and cannot come to any firm conclusion but “who knows?”
China and the EU each have more consumers than the U.S., but their purchasing power on international markets (and those of European business and governments) are inferior because nominal GDP.
True.
China and the EU each have more consumers than the U.S., but their purchasing power on international markets (and those of European business and governments) are inferior because nominal GDP.
I sadly mostly agree with you. One nuance: globalism-egalitarianism seems to have largely become an autonomous European phenomenon. Let’s imagine the United States were to vanish tomorrow: would Europe then self-correct? Not clear at all.
I'm of two minds on this. I actually think some sort of pan-European cooperation is crucially important for the survival of European nations in the world of the 21st century. Not sure though what form this should take. And I'm sceptical whether any meaningful European identity that doesn't degenerate into just liberal cosmopolitanism is possible. I always suspect that the European commitments of even groups like the identitarians with their ostentatious pro-Europeanism are only very superficial (all the more so since many of them seem to be plugged so deeply into American alt-right discourse, instead of really learning about their neighbours and forming organic connections with them). More mainstream right-wingers are of course even worse, readily resorting to old-fashioned national enmities which one can ill afford today.Replies: @Anonymous, @Guillaume Durocher
Though whether it is desirable will also depend on one’s values and priorities.
You are very demanding! I can only speak of the French identitarians. The Identitaires are not particularly Americanized and could teach the U.S. movement a thing or two. The people around Institut Iliade are also working in a French and European tradition.
Inevitably, these movements are adapting to a global frame of reference. There’s no reason for French (or other) patriots to ignore successful Anglo movements or memes. And we need to be authentic: you can wear a peasant outfit or swear by cross and altar, but does this correspond to any lived reality? And we two, after all, are also writing in English.. Nationalism is also becoming globalized to some extent.
I share your reticences on European unity. On the one hand, the EU is an often poorly-designed and soulless entity. This is naturally alienating and thus anti-EU sentiment is quite understandable and often even a healthy sign. On the other, most criticisms of the EU are not that important in the grand scheme of things (e.g. arguing over transfers that add up maybe 0.3% of GDP). The main demographic downside is shared citizenship with Gypsies.
The sociological dynamics of our electoral regimes are such that dissident/populist parties naturally tend to a demagogic small-state civic nationalism. However, this “nationalism” is utterly sterile. Therefore, it is important that we at least intellectually make the case for a grander movement based on shared ancestry and civilization, whatever form such unity might ultimately take.
It would be better if Italians were fascists (who actually got things done) instead of voting for retarded left-wing populists who'll just piss away money on useless nonsense, not spend it on actually useful infrastructure and the like. Spain of course is even worse with its rotten Marxist parties.
not all Italians are fascists
Out of curiosity, what would say if these were the borders of the European Union?
Seems to me this would be quite viable. Though whether it is desirable will also depend on one’s values and priorities.
I'm of two minds on this. I actually think some sort of pan-European cooperation is crucially important for the survival of European nations in the world of the 21st century. Not sure though what form this should take. And I'm sceptical whether any meaningful European identity that doesn't degenerate into just liberal cosmopolitanism is possible. I always suspect that the European commitments of even groups like the identitarians with their ostentatious pro-Europeanism are only very superficial (all the more so since many of them seem to be plugged so deeply into American alt-right discourse, instead of really learning about their neighbours and forming organic connections with them). More mainstream right-wingers are of course even worse, readily resorting to old-fashioned national enmities which one can ill afford today.Replies: @Anonymous, @Guillaume Durocher
Though whether it is desirable will also depend on one’s values and priorities.
Further enlargement would indeed tilt the European center-of-gravity to the cultural right, but the Union would lose yet more in cohesion and coherence. So another catch-22.
I find the theory and practice of U.S. federalism quite interesting. “Cooperative federalism,” “coercive federalism,” though perhaps should be called “bribed federalism,” “unfunded mandates”.. all have their analogues in European integration, though typically these are not glorified in America as the Way of the Future, but rather often alienating and inefficient bureaucratic realities.
You are correct, I used an incorrect source and have adjusted the figure to a 2018 estimate.
Is there Romanian autonomist sentiment in Transylvania? It seems this more-liberal region has more dynamic cities (Cluj, Brașov, Sibiu..). Cioran, a Transylvanian, already commented on the cultural differences between his region and the “old kingdom,” considering it “the Prussia of Romania.”
Very interesting and informative, thank you!
I tried to provide some context, but please enlighten me then on why he said it.
Honestly I cannot find much on either. Gypsies are widely recognized as a social problem by Romanians, but there does not seem to be much political campaigning in this area. AUR is opposed to the ethnic Hungarian party (UDMR) which effectively acts as a kingmaker in Romanian parliamentary politics (almost always finding a deal with the new ruling party in exchange for pork). AUR says it is opposed to the “ghettoization” of Hungarians in Romania.
The source for the quote is footage of Tudor in this documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=6030&v=uUbN6DXJwFg
Is there data on preferred donors?
Recall? Didn't Humanae Vitae reaffirm the church's ban on contraception?Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
... nor Pope Paul VI’s July 1968 encyclical Humanae vitae recalling of the ban on contraception seem to have had much impact.
Ambiguous choice of words: I mean “recalled” as in “reminded” people about the ban.
Very interesting comments. Thank you!
Abortion is disproportionately used by low IQ individuals.
In the United States, almost half of abortions involve Black women and one third of Black fetuses are aborted. Admittedly, we do not have such statistics for France and it is possible Muslims are less likely to use it because of their comparative social conservatism.
An excellent book!
Athens is an interesting case of an often quite effective direct democracy. Arguably Athens also had a political elite. Especially those with the rhetorical skills to sway the Assembly or jurors. Pericles first among them.
This corresponds closely, even in the wording, to Carrel's book:
Human equality being considered neither desirable nor possible, an aristocracy or an elite may form freely, deriving its worth not so much from wealth, which will be limited by legislation, as from the more human qualities of moral and intellectual excellence.
We see this same thinking after the war, in an article written by Trudeau in 1948 for the Montreal weekly Notre temps. In it, he criticized Canada's participation in the war:
It is chiefly the intellectual and moral deficiencies of the political leaders, and their ignorance, which endanger modern nations. … But, despite the immense sums spent on education, we have failed to develop completely their intellectual and moral activities. Even in the elite of the population, consciousness often lacks harmony and strength. … Indeed, human beings are equal. But individuals are not. … To disregard all these inequalities is very dangerous. The democratic principle has contributed to the collapse of civilization in opposing the development of an elite. (Carrel, 1939, pp. 22, 140, 271.)
Essentially, Trudeau was arguing that elites are inevitable. The question is whether the elite serves the nation or itselfWere other postwar leaders influenced by Alexis Carrel?Replies: @lysias, @Guillaume Durocher, @Rob McX
Thus our leaders believed in government of the people for the people but not by the people. They nursed a secret thought that the people can err, that the elite’s duty is to save this formless mass that is led by passion rather than reason and which may not want to be saved [malgré elle]. Certainly, there are things to say in favor of that theory, which is called elite theory, and against the convention that 51% of the population always has a monopoly on wisdom. But we could not help but be astonished that we were being called up to serve under the flag (God knows which one!) precisely to fight theories in other places that were being brazenly applied at home. And we had to conclude that our “elite” was seeking to save by force of arms something else than democracy, and perhaps something less honorable.
I had no idea. Very interesting!
With the caveat: Hitler hated the Habsburg monarchy and its perpetual attempts to find messy compromises between its component ethnies. He was clearly shaped and shocked by German-Austrians’ decline from hegemony in Austria-Hungary and gradual subjection to a non-German majority. In that sense German hegemony over a multiethnic Reich came very naturally to Hitler and probably his Austrian experience also accounts for his obsession with Czechoslovakia. A more ecumenical approach probably would have yielded an Axis victory.
tl/dr? Chapoutot takes the book quite seriously.
There’s much more to the matter of Nazi atrocities than just the Jews. I think it’s fair to say that, on the whole, German occupation of Western Europe was no more brutal than, say, that of Napoleon. The East is different, just have a look at the annihilation of the elite and population policies in occupied Poland.
I am of course open to alternative sources and accounts.
Exactly. German actions (AB-Aktion and Intelligenzaktion) starting on the day one of the occupation of Poland were unprecedented in the history of Europe except for the actions of Bolsheviks in Russia and they were pretty well known. French politicians who negotiated the armistice and surrender in 1940 were very much aware of what Germans were capable of and wanted to avoid the 'polonization' of France.
"The East is different, just have a look at the annihilation of the elite and population policies in occupied Poland."
Replies: @Colin Wright, @Colin Wright
THE RECONSTRUCTION OF FRANCE: MARSHAL PETAIN'S POLICIES, 1940-1942, AS EVALUATED BY AMERICAN JOURNALISTS AND SCHOLARS
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/215275781.pdf
At the time of the French defeat, too short a time had elapsed since the beginning of the war for a general assessment to develop regarding German occupation patterns or to predict the effects of the German occupation on the conquered states; only from the case of Poland could conclusions be drawn. In some respects, the situation of Poland bore similarities to that of France. Both countries had German minorities and had received territories from Germany in the Treaty of Versailles which were by culture and language German. Poland therefore could serve as a precedent for the French government as it groped for clues regarding German policies after conquest. While Germany's annexation of its pre-World War I territory in Poland had been expected, nobody anticipated the destruction of the Polish elite and the expropriation, expulsion, and resettlement of one million Poles. International law was violated. While annexation in the case of total conquest and in the absence of a functioning government was permissible, the expropriation of private property was not.
Mrs. Yeager, what do you think of German policies towards occupied Poland? Or the various Soviet territories?
I would be happy to look at your suggested sources on the matter.
True!
I very much doubt that Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi was a mainstream figure in the interwar years or even widely known. A better case could be made for the Nazi origins of the EEC/EU and that the real godfather of the EU was Walter Hallstein:
In our popular culture and intellectual discourse, there is little serious engagement with the Darwinian biological realities underpinning National-Socialist ideology or with the failings of parliamentary democracy, which led many people in the interwar years, even mainstream figures like the godfather of the EU Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi, to pine for a different system of government.
It’s interesting to know that the vaunted EU’s origins aren’t squeaky clean.
That’s said, bureaucrats believe in nothing & effortlessly bend with the wind. In this sense they are not the “origin” of anything.
I am not sure what you are getting at. Care to elaborate?
Thank you sir!
I don’t know what the Total Security Law refers to.
The anti-separatism law is a vague attempt to eliminate forms of Islam deemed unacceptable to the French State. For the centrist Macron, the point is to attract right-wing ethnocentric voters (and perhaps some left-wing secularists). The practical effect will probably be annoy the growing Muslim community and consolidate them as a parallel society with its own distinct values and group pride.
Perhaps I translated it poorly, I meant the law against maliciously documenting the police.
I don’t know what the Total Security Law refers to.
AKK is pretty much out of the running for Merkel's succession, the next chancellor will probably be Armin Laschet (incompetent pro-Islamic uber-cuck from North-Rhine-Westphalia), or maybe Bavaria's Markus Söder (unprincipled opportunist, has tried to adopt an image as competent crisis manager in Corona times, but it's pretty ridiculous). Doesn't really matter which one, both will enter into a coalition with the Greens after the next federal elections in fall 2021, which will let even more Africans and Muslims into Germany and increase repression of dissent to new levels.
“AKK,” who is also the leader of the ruling Christian-Democratic Union (CDU) and heir-apparent to replace Angela Merkel
Thanks for the insights!
Marine Le Pen wants net immigration reduced to negligible levels. But, when prompted by the media, she agrees with them that the Great Replacement is a hoax…
Indeed. As late as the 70s around 15% of French high-schoolers learned German as their first foreign language (80% English, the rest negligible). Today, 99% learn English and Spanish has risen to be by far the most popular second foreign language (47%, against German’s 15%).
I hate to disillusion people, but I doubt Marine Le Pen has many strong principles, though she certainly has more of an ideology than Trump. Unfortunately, much of that ideology is anti-EU civic nationalism. If Brexit is any indication, that means any Le Pen administration would likely waste a lot of energy theatrically clawing back bits of legal sovereignty from Brussels, with arguably little result.
Le Pen is not an outrageous reality-TV celebrity like Trump. However, she has also performed regular purges of her party, whether for reasons of personality, tight control (she has a very narrow party line), or ideology (removes those too politically-incorrect).
A big difference is that the central State plays a much more important role in French democracy and this is much more intertwined with the executive. To some extent there would then be less opportunities for the kind of sabotage Trump has faced. And admittedly, Salvini was able to achieve quite a lot even in coalition government in Italy, as has Orbán’s government in Hungary. Perhaps France will be able to replicate there success.
I suppose if Le Pen ever got into power she would spend much of her time bashing Germany (because that's what "the EU" is mostly code for, in the end it always comes down to "Germany is trying to dominate Europe again")? I certainly noticed that her niece Marion Maréchal proposed a "Latin alliance" of France and the Southern Europeans against an alleged threat of German domination (also interesting that she pals around with people like Yoram Hazony and various American Enterprise Institute types). So just like with Brexit demographic displacement might continue to be a taboo subject while the world wars are refought, if only on a verbal level.Replies: @Mr. XYZ
Unfortunately, much of that ideology is anti-EU civic nationalism.
Very similar to British Brexiters, then. Stopping non-white immigration is infinitely more important than getting control back from Brussels (and handing it over to British bureaucrats who will do the same as their EU counterparts). In retrospect, I think it would have been better if British patriots had stayed in the EU and concentrated all their efforts on stopping immigration.Replies: @Anonymous
Unfortunately, much of that ideology is anti-EU civic nationalism. If Brexit is any indication, that means any Le Pen administration would likely waste a lot of energy theatrically clawing back bits of legal sovereignty from Brussels, with arguably little result.
Hello Agathoklis. There have always been economic divisions in France. However, there was considerable more social mixing in previous decades. What’s more, the left and the right used to unite people of difficult classes: progressive bourgeois might lead workers, while pious peasants and small business might readily side with the nobility. This is less and less the case. The Afro-Islamic presence represents the biggest change however, as it changes the very character of the people.
I completely agree.
That’s quite fine. Cioran was obviously a bloodthirsty bookworm, apparently compensating personal feebleness by scribbling dark dreams of NazBol tyranny. Though he proved wiser when rubber hit the road (i.e. when communism actually approached Romania). He was idiosyncratic and tortured by excess.. objectivity. He hated cope.
Also, calling to bludgeon a nation into shape is not exactly extermination. Though I’m personally wary of such methods. Actually, Ceaușesquism can be considered an actuation of some of the youthful Cioran’s inane fantasies… But I can understand what he meant. None of the measures typically discussed will turn Romania into a noteworthy or even particularly functional nation. One likely needs a century of good breeding.
Cheers! I am afraid I can’t even begin to paraphrase Montaigne and La Rochefoucauld, both excellent, but the latter in particular is underrated, very important.
Cioran made a pact with the devil in order not to be expelled from France, where he was a student, after the war. I want to believe that his ‘amertumes’ are an expression of the disgust for his cowardice (including ‘dobbing’ on his former friends which led to their arrest and ‘show trials’), but I wouldn’t bet on it. That he turned ‘anti-fascist’ may be understandable (even without the special conditions which obtained in the post-war era of the ‘purges’). Even his books published in Romania were not exactly in tune with what is purported to have been the ‘ideology of the Legionary Movement’ and have been criticized even in legionary papers.
Agreed.
What is harder to understand was the unnecessary anti-Christian stand he took, playing the Nietzsches. He was the son of an Orthodox priest from a profoundly Orthodox region of Romania. His works have been banned in Communist Romania, but even after the fall of Communism, when he was published with much fanfare, he failed to attract any sympathy, precisely for his attacks on Orthodoxy.
What is hard to understand? He did not believe in the existence of God and rejected the whole Christian world-view as false and sterile. He could be sincere.. and that point. Though one might say his bitter, disappointed ruminations resemble.. Job’s.
Where does Cioran call for extermination 3/4 Romanians? Cioran is a manic depressive, oscillating between a deathly lucidity and vitalist exhortations.. between Buddha and Führer..
Thank you sir!
Thank you for the kind words! Can we be personally happy and leave a healthy biological legacy? I should think so.
I am skeptical of such projects. The White Nationalist website Démocratie Participative publicly promotes the plan of “Greater Burgundy” as a White racial enclave within France. Actually, their analysis of French demographics is both lucid and long-term: the cities are lost, nationalists are a minority within an ethnic population that is itself becoming a minority, and life will have to be rebuilt from the countryside, with control of food production playing a critical role.
However, in the immediate, I am skeptical of any public plans for “nationalist communes.” If these things have any scale and organization, say beyond 20 people, it’s quite likely they will get found out by the security services. Total self-reliance is unrealistic given the standards of living people expect. People’s needs are more prosaic: Do you have a job that lets you support a family? Will this job be kept if you get found out as a 1488er? (Probably not.) So best be discrete.
Longer term things can change of course as the demographic and subcultural situation further polarizes and radicalizes.
Love the creativity, shared.
Soral is now legally resident in Switzerland however he seems to still live in France. Many French patriots are now émigrés: Vincent Reynouard in England, Boris Le Lay in Japan, Daniel Conversano in Romania..
Indeed I have previously reviewed Soumission here: https://counter-currents.com/2015/02/michel-houellebecq-soumission/
The protagonist is most likely a stand-in for Houellebecq himself. I take it accepting Islam-for-babes as one of the book’s many wry jokes. He also rationalizes polygamy on eugenic grounds.
Yes.
Well put!
Indeed, “ancien régime” means “old” or “former” régime.
How was the Ancien Régime “awful”? Burke does, in fact, say that it was imperfect and had to be improved upon.
He says however:
1) Reform should be gradual and respect existing institutions such as the king, church, aristocracy, and parlements.
2) The old French monarchy in fact was already something of a mixed régime of checks and balances, witness the king’s inability to get his reforms through the parlements.
There was some social mobility between the bourgeoisie and the aristocracy, however obviously not as much as the bourgeois would like. It would be interesting to compare such “passing” between European nations, which might explain why England was able to liberalize gradually but France did so brutally.
Considering it ended with the French Revolution, I should say it was pretty awful, or not awful at all, depending on how one regards that event.Replies: @John Gruskos
How was the Ancien Régime “awful”?
The other civilizations of the Earth – particularly the Islamic, Hindu, and Sinic – seem to accept the injustices of hierarchy more easily than Westerners, leading to centuries of relative stability (or, for a critic, stagnation).
In the West, whether in the ancient Greek city-states, the Roman empire, or the whole modern era, there seems to me to be a great deal more questioning of authority and transformations of culture and institutions. The lower classes and Plebs are constantly agitating against the elite, demanding more right, the idealists (Socrates, Luther) condemning a culture or an elite’s failure to adhere to that culture’s ideals. Indeed, the whole notion of citizenship – as against subjecthood – seems uniquely Western (or “Indo-European”).
Je suppose qu’Onfray peut passer à la télé parce que, justement, il ne prône pas la résistance. Que dire de plus ? C’est une sorte de Jordan Peterson à la française et je ne vois pas trop l’intérêt. J’ai tout de même parcouru un de ses livres et je dois admettre que c’est effectivement un homme cultivé.
is totally absurd. Especially 40% non-white NW Europe is crossing into David Icke territory. This invites crackpot conspiracy theorists. I can't speak for France, which seems demographically worst off, although that has been the case for decades now, but Germany has around 2.4 million Turks - we even have about the same or even slightly more Poles now, depending on which statistic you look at - which are not only immune to islamist terrorism, but would be counted as white in countries like the USA. And we have well below a million S.S. Africans. The refugee crisis of 2015 will remain a singular event, which only brought 400k Syrians into this country anyway. Far left and diversity ideology will remain a threat, but its influence will increasingly shrink through the rise of nativist populism, the EU adapting to it and the rift to the Anglosphere, including the USA, and a greater integration with Russia and China. It takes much longer than many had hoped, but it's happening. And none of the conditions we have would even remotely suggest an actual "collapse" or "total dysfunction" of our nation. Or a future great attraction to Southern Europe, let alone Eastern Europe.
In the long run, I am talking 30-40 years, we can expect that northern Europe will become so dysfunctional that people prefer living in southern or eastern Europe. Non-Whites currently make up around 20% of the north-west European population. When this rises to 40 or 50%, we can expect the situation to get very unstable indeed.
I beg you look at the data. Mainstream estimates suggest the U.S. will become majority non-White in the 2040s, Great Britain in the 2060s, and presumably the rest of north-west Europe around the same time.
And indigenous Europeans will make up the *older* and less fertile half of that population..
Quite possibly, yes. He once defended himself from accusations that he had unduly promoted and protected his security guard Alexandre Benalla – who was filmed manhandling protesters – saying: “He’s not my lover!” He also has a few cokehead mannerisms, as did the head of Sciences Po Richard Descoings – another very “switched on”/globalist figure – before being found dead in a Manhattan hotel, after having been drugged up and frequented two male prostitutes.
These are all separate. EU social legislation amounts to trying to “harmonize” common standards and give European citizens access to the other nations’ systems (if they they work). There is no welfare redistribution, though there is some (macroeconomically modest) redistribution for the EU budget, mostly for farming subsidies and regional development for poorer territories.
A lot depends on the 2022 presidential election. Can Marine Le Pen win this time?All it needs is one Western European country to end mass immigration from the Third World. The "liberal" predictions are either that such a country would collapse, or its citizens would start building gas chambers. When these grim outcomes fail to materialise, the entire Western world will realise that we have been told lies, and will choose more sensible immigration policies.Replies: @Guillaume Durocher
Italy has strong prospects for decisively flipping to a national-populist regime in the coming years and joining the ranks of Visegrád. (I am less optimistic for France.)
Probably not, really. (And I say that as someone who thought both Brexit and Trump were possible.)
Ugh.
A shame we are so disconnected from much of the German discourse!
Sarrazin’s book has been translated in French, as has David Engels’ Le Déclin.
Agreed!
Very interesting.
I cannot judge Zemmour myself. He doesn’t exactly claim to be a rebel (like Soral) and much of what he says is very relevant. He covers the misdeeds of Jewish lobbying organizations in Le Suicide français but does not talk about it much (at all?) on audiovisual media.
Soral is a NazBol punk . . . This makes him very independent and courageous, hence willing to cover issues (like Jewish-Zionist power) which others flinch from. Like many Marxists, his critiques are often very incisive and cogent. That doesn’t mean his counter-proposals are always very credible . . .
The French are famously proud of their (Latin-based) language and acknowledge the Roman heritage. They do not consider themselves heirs to the modern-day Italians though.. much as we appreciate them. A sliver of southeast France, including Nice and Corsica (which also has its own identity), are formerly Italian. The bulk of southern France spoke quite different Latin-based dialects: Occitan, including Catalan and Provençal.
The latter was exterminated during France’s consolidation as a nation-state in the modern era. Ezra Pound waxed lyrical about medieval Provençal ballads and poetry and indeed, as a kind of intermediary between French and Italian, it is quite beautiful. e.g.:

Very true.
I shat a proverbial brick when I learned that one of De Gaulle’s first policies in newly-liberated France was instituting a MORE NORDIC IMMIGRATION POLICY!
Sounds like a plausible part of the answer.
I had not realized Pontecorvo was Jewish. Thanks for the information!
Camus never supported an independent Algeria. He also wanted peace and a non-colonial regime, which understandably led radical leftists to consider him a wet.
The pieds-noirs were the equivalent of the American colonists. The Algerians are the Amerindians in this comparison, people who, if memory serves, were annihilated by the Americans.
That’s very interesting. It leaves open the question of why modern Greeks – who behave very much like an intermediate population between Europeans and Mideasterners (with their clannishness and corruption) – have proven so much less gifted than their illustrious predecessors.
There’s plenty of phenotypic overlap between inhabitants of the Mediterranean’s southern and northern shores.
Thank you for these clarifications!
Indeed. He did not, as far as I am aware, take measures to prevent further Afro-Islamic immigration to France.
The film is quite clear that terrorism and torture both work.
The 35,000 Jews of Algeria were made into French citizens through their co-ethnics’ lobbying by the Décret Crémieux of 1870. By 1962, these Jews numbered 200,000 and fled to France along with the Europeans.
Indeed, the makers of Intouchables are North African Sephardic Jews. Many such cases!
It must also be said that some of these Jews are “nationalist”: associating France with security and being understandably fearful of the Arabs/Muslims. I met one whose family had fled and, to this day, defended French Algeria and said that the Arabs could have been integrated (. . .). Éric Zemmour, the most “nationalist” pundit allowed on French television and who often says interesting things, is also of Algerian Jewish origin, his parents having come to France during the war.
People are now planting bombs in the tramways of Algiers. My mother might be on one of those tramways. If that is justice, then I prefer my mother.
– Camus, 1957.
"I have always condemned terror. I must also condemn a terrorism that exerts itself blindly, in the streets of Algiers, and which could someday hit my mother or my family. I believe in Justice, but I would defend my mother before Justice".Camus is saying two things:
« J’ai toujours condamné la terreur. Je dois condamner aussi un terrorisme qui s’exerce aveuglément, dans les rues d’Alger par exemple, et qui un jour peut frapper ma mère ou ma famille. Je crois à la justice, mais je défendrai ma mère avant la justice. »
i. could the french have remained in independent, muslim-ruled algeria like boers of SA? would they have if they could? why not?
In principle, yes, albeit in a highly insecure position. As things happened, there was far too much bad blood between the French and the Algerians by 1962. The Europeans realized by then their alternative was “the suitcase or the coffin.”
ii. immigration to france/europe is normally explained by need of labor to rebuild ww2 destruction. is this true? after work visa expires, how did the workers turn into immigrants?
Nah. I mean, initially, sure, but then came family reunification via the courts, the left, and the pseudo-patriotic right, etc.
iii. if the French abandon the Church, will not another sect or cult fill the void? can’t you see you are personally assisting such outcome?
Indeed.
? What does this mean? Do you intend to replace Christianity and its morality with some other belief system which is more suitable for an ethnonationalist project?
Indeed.
And why was there bad blood in between the French and natives? Why because that was one of the MAIN AIMS of the FLN terrorists all along. Destroy the relationship in between the two communities.https://crc-internet.org/our-doctrine/national-restoration/algerian-war/4-rebellion-accomplices.html"The FLN was a movement that came from the Organisation spécial (OS; Special Organisation), the terrorist branch of Messali Hadj’s Marxist movement : the “ Mouvement pour le Triomphe des Libertés Démocratiques ” (MTLD; Movement for the Triumph of Democratic Liberties). Shortly before, in the spring of 1954, twenty-two activists of the OS had decided to split away and chose a directory : the “ Committee of Nine ”. These men proclaimed themselves the historical leaders of the FLN. The Front inherited from the OS its revolutionary character and its method : terror. It always excluded Communists to avoid having to submit to them, but nevertheless it kept their methods and their Marxist dialectic. The FLN also used the ulemas to rouse the peasant masses to fanaticism and to justify the acts of slaughter that they would commit in the name of Islam. Finally, the “ Union Démocratique du Manifeste Algérien ” (UDMA; Democratic Union of the Algerian Manifesto) led by Ferhat Abbas, also contributed to the expansion of the FLN by stirring up the Muslim middle-class and awakening French public opinion to its claims."...snip...."THE PHILIPPEVILLE MASSACRE
As things happened, there was far too much bad blood between the French and the Algerians by 1962. The Europeans realized by then their alternative was “the suitcase or the coffin.”
My memory is at fault. I think what happened is that it was another German woman writer I looked up and found she was indeed Jewish, and transposed that memory onto Brigette Hamann. Mea Culpa.
I recall seeing Hamann described as Jewish [...] I will have to get back to you on that.
Well, I recommend Hamann. She does not seem to have an axe to grind. I agree many mainstream historians are openly hostile and deprecating. Gunther is indeed completely hostile and, besides the factoids he reports, is interesting to know how hostile Western journalists already were.
Thanks for the reply. The reason that I tend to believe the actual existence of Jesus as a real historical figure is because, as I said, Paul is writing to existing Christian congregations. He does reference the resurrection of Jesus which means Jesus lived as a human. The letters are theological so they don’t tend to expound on the life of Jesus which was probably known in other sources, oral or not.
You also elided over who wrote or caused to be written the gospels and the very specific and detailed acts of the apostles, with its large cast of characters. If Paul is the inventor of Christianity it means that the subsequent writers of the gospels were ploughing their own path, making up a historical figure from a divine one, creating a large cast of characters (including Paul himself) and throwing in references to historical characters, like Pontius Pilate. Why is this necessary and why bother if a divine Christ is already believed in? Why have him crucified at all? The crucifixion would be seem to be shameful, the death of a common criminal rather than a king.
The writers have clearly retrospectively added in some additions, like Jesus being born in Bethlehem, necessary for the theology of a messiah. Most historians doubt the historicity of this – as the accounts of Luke and Matthew are totally different. However if you are making up a figure you don’t need the excuse of a census or an angel causing somebody to flee Nazareth for Bethlehem, since you can just say he was born and grew up in Bethlehem as the prophecy suggests. The lie reveals the underlying truth, the historical Jesus was born and grew up in Nazareth, and the evangelists has to retrofit a birth in Bethlehem into that.
Brigitte Hamman the Jew is just the right person, in Durocher's eyes, to paint Hitler as destined for failure right from the beginning. That is what Frenchman Guilluame Durocher sets out to accomplish in every Hitler article he writes.Replies: @AnonFromTN, @Guillaume Durocher
Brigitte Hamman’s Hitler’s Vienna, which focuses on the future German dictator’s desultory youth, manages to wonderfully bring together fin-de-siècle Viennese culture, contemporary newspapers, the German-Austrian nationalist subculture, the few documents from Hitler’s youth, Mein Kampf, and even the wartime Table Talk. One gets a sense of Hitler the irresponsible Bohemian, an unteachable slave to his Muse, his overpoweringly vivid imagination and already-emerging inflexible will.
A) I explicitly distinguish between the two “testaments” in the article.
B) While your speculation about my motives is interesting, the truth is I write about Hitler because I find him to be a fascinating and extremely important historical personality. I believe we should learn from the past to act in the present for the sake of the future, etc.
C) I did not know Hamman was Jewish. Source? Her ethnicity in any case is of no bearing to my estimation of her work, but I take it you do not rate it highly? Do you have a critical review of her work? Perhaps I am unaware of some defects.
D) Hitler was a tragically flawed figure. It’s obvious that great forces were gathered against him. All the same, it is also obvious to me that both his successes and his failures were, to a large extent, driven above all by the very particular features of his own personality.
Which two testaments? There is Hitler's Last Will and Testament and his Political Testament, which you relegated to a footnote (maybe added later to "fix" your omission). You actually discuss at some length the fake testament that you call the "last testament." This is what confused your reader Lloyd, and I'm sure many others were confused by it too, or misled. Here's the quote:
I explicitly distinguish between the two “testaments” in the article.
If this document is fake, why discuss it? Oh, I know, because of the way it presents Hitler as an exterminationist, plus you're also considering it may not be fake:
Another major written document we have is Hitler’s so-called “last testament.”[1] The “last testament” is significant as a fake because it is one of the few documents where Hitler explicitly speaks of the extermination of the Jews.
So much for "major Hitler historians." You're also doing a good job confusing the Unz Review readers here:
However, many of the major Hitler historians, and others, used the document in their work, including Allan Bullock, Joachim Fest, and Jon Toland. John Lewis Gaddis, the dean of Cold War historians, quotes this document as well as Tocqueville in the opening of his major history.
... even though he takes into consideration fake documents in coming to his "balanced and respected" conclusions.
The Toland biography is a good case in point. This is a balanced and respected work comes from a historian who, remarkably, did not speak German.
Only the last line of this long research article is really necessary to your article: “Historians should therefore refrain from using this source, and should treat it as if it was a forgery.”
[2] The historian Mikael Nilsson presents the latest evidence on the “last testament”: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13507486.2018.1532983
I recall seeing Hamman described as Jewish in what I considered a generally reliable source for this type of information. It sticks in my mind as something like Wiki or Amazon, but it may have been changed (scrubbed) since. Or my memory is at fault. I will have to get back to you on that as I don't want to hold up this comment.Replies: @Carolyn Yeager
Hitler was a tragically flawed figure.
It’s quite possible Carrier is wrong and I am giving him too much credit.
Carrier has brought to light the fact that the Table Talk is unreliable, especially the English version, and cannot be reliably quoted as a source on Hitler’s religious beliefs, which are his main interest. I don’t agree with him that Hitler was much of a Christian. His references to the “Almighty” and, more commonly “Providence,” mark him as more of a deist and pantheist. Hitler was obviously a politician: Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity was widespread but he was after all the head of a State of a majority-Christian country.
I’m no scholar of Christianity or the bible but I did go to mass as a youngster and two things are clear. One is that Paul is writing to existing Christians across the empire, not all of them congregations he set up. The other is that, he clearly talks about the resurrection. In corinthians 1 he says.
Still, lack of interest in the earthly life and teachings of Jesus in the letters of Paul, the earliest Christian written documents, is downright puzzling.
Thanks for your comment. If you are interested, have a look at a couple of Carrier’s lectures, which are a quite cogent exposition of the Christ myth hypothesis: e.g.:

There are also several interesting online debates between him and mainstream scholars.
I do not find however that the most common mainstream academic narrative makes complete sense. They will claim Jesus was an earthly preacher who gradually became deified by successive generations of followers. Very plausible hypothesis, from a secular perspective, and which matches the pattern of the Gospels (assuming you accept their rough dating from Mark to John). As Jesus was not very important in his lifetime, it would not be surprising if non-Christian sources would make no reference to him. Richard Smoley (a Gnostic) has a nice summary of this:

The problem is with the Letters of Paul. There, the earliest source, Jesus is very much a divine being and there is virtually no reference to his earthly teachings and the barest references to life-events (Carrier, with his Greek, even contests these, arguing that dying-and-rising gods are a common mythological motif). Thus Carrier reverses the hypothesis: Jesus was a dying-and-rising divine being who later became humanized (not by Paul) in the Gospels, starting from Mark, and then riffing on him. Mark in effect provides Christian missionaries a model for their life and behavior, a model indeed which has been very successful right up to the present day! Mark’s Jesus would have been much more relatable to the masses than the rather mysterious being described in Paul (or whatever the being the pre-Pauline Christians believed in, of which no contemporary record survives).
Anyway, I am not taking a side myself. I don’t read ancient Greek and am not a New Testament scholar. I found Carrier’s arguments however to be in some ways better at accounting for all of the evidence than the standard mainstream argument.
On making things up: It’s not unusual for ancient spiritual traditions to simply completely make things up, according to their institutional interests and what emotionally resonates with them (inspiration!). Cobbling things together, retconning, very common. All people had to go on for their traditional beliefs was oral tradition and/or a text. Obviously, this is extremely easy to falsify or evolve organically, and people had absolutely no way of verifying. And “falsifiers” did not necessarily consider they were doing wrong: consider Plato’s “noble lie.”
Scholars today consider Lycurgus, Sparta’s great lawgiver, a “semi-legendary” figure. A polite way of saying they have no idea if he existed or not. The idea of Lycurgus, in any event, played a very important and powerful role, by associating Sparta’s (evolving) customs and regime with a revered personality.
Or consider Mahayana Buddhism (which I practice in the form of Zen): it is known that the founding Mahayana scriptures featuring the Buddha were written centuries after the original Indic scriptures (e.g. Pali Canon), which in turn were written centuries after the historical Buddha would have lived.
And what do the Mahayana scriptures claim? That Buddha secretly and wordlessly taught the true way through a nod to one of his disciples, who then passed this on to the Mahayana. As history and transmission, this sounds utterly contrived. The institutional message is very clear however: we Mahayana follow the true way, not the lesser Buddhists of the Theravada (“Lesser Vehicle”). Even though, Theravada Buddhism of Southeast Asia looks to be more traditional and archaic.
Some clever monkeys (Evola, Stephen Batchelor) will argue that the historical Buddha was more philosophical and less “superstitious/religious/institutional”, and hence in a way secularized Zen is closer to the original Buddhist spirit before it became a rigid institutionalized religion. WHO KNOWS!
An important role of any institutional religious scripture is to legitimize one’s own teachings and institution (with greater-or-lesser degrees of delegitimization of other traditions, ranging from “tolerant” polytheistic syncretism to the Abrahamic traditions’ total disavowal of other traditions).
So often, a traditional religion will make claims which appear to us utterly arbitrary, except if we hear the underlying institutional or even power-political message. It is very interesting to analyze the various religious traditions from this viewpoint: each in effect has different reproductive/memetic and political strategies in their competition and/or coexistence with other religions.
his spiritual dimension is also not well thought through: as a Christian, Hitler is proponent of masculine Christianity, the Crusader (with Aryan Christ). Providence governs his star, and we cannot decide whether he believed in the afterlife or not.
He endorsed a re-write of Christianity which involved dropping the old testament and making Christ an Aryan. But I think he would have promoted a Germanic pagan religion if it was politically viable. Germany was a Christian nation so as with all politicians he can’t deviate that far from the norm.
I think he mostly gave thought to religion in the context of how it serves the people. He spoke of having divine providence but clearly didn’t believe in the God of the Christian Bible. He obviously didn’t believe that the Jews were God’s chosen people.
Hitler considered eastern Slavs to be subhumans. And then, astonishingly so, subhumans had produced perhaps the best WWII tank, T-34. How so? Time to correct his policy & show some elasticity in his strategies? Perhaps to radically alter many elements in his world-view? No, nothing…
The German underestimation of the Slavs was disastrous.
You can see this is in the battle of Kursk where the Germans show up for a battle under Soviet terms. They basically show up with a massive amount of armor knowing full well that the Soviets are ready and have been preparing defenses. All under the arrogant German assumption that ‘one more battle’ should do it.
The Germans had the attitude that the Soviet state would collapse at any moment. As you said Hitler and his Generals never changed their world view. Their intelligence was also awful as seen in table talk. They completely underestimated Soviet productive capacity.
T34 was not the best WWII tank in many ways. But it served its purpose best because it was relatively cheap, relatively simple, easy to mass-produce, easy to repair in the field (instead of sending it back to the factory, as was the case with German tanks), and highly maneuverable. Its cannon was much weaker than the cannon of German tanks, but it overwhelmed German armor due to numbers and easy repairability.
perhaps the best WWII tank, T-34
Hard to dispute either. What’s more, there is direct connection: poor intelligence (low cognitive ability) was the reason German leadership expected the Soviet state to collapse. Interestingly, current “leaders” of Ukraine demonstrate the same stupidity: they expect Russia to collapse any day now. They will be disappointed, just like Germans.Replies: @Sparkon, @John Johnson
The Germans had the attitude that the Soviet state would collapse at any moment.
Their intelligence was also awful
David Irving claimed in 1977 “there is no archival evidence that Hitler even knew of the Final Solution of the Jewish Problem, let alone ordered the liquidation of millions of Jews.” This obviously got Irving into an inhuman amount of trouble.
This refers to publication of Irving’s book Hitler’s War (in 1977) — but Irving’s ‘troubles’ increased dramatically after he testified to the lack of evidence linking Hitler to the ‘Holocaust’ at the second Zündel trial in 1988 — Irving was impressed with the Leuchter report, introduced by the defense (Zündel) at that trial — afterward, in a number of speeches/appearances, Irving made statements more or less repudiating the heart of the conventional ‘Holocaust’ narrative, i.e. that the Germans planned and then attempted the extermination of Jews via gas chambers located in “death camps” — in a number of speeches he says something like this: ‘I privately advise my Jewish friends that the game is up — they’ve already seen how stories like soap made from the fat of Jews, and collections of shrunken Jewish heads, have been shown to be lies — now it’s only a matter of time until the whole gas chamber story is similarly exposed as a lie’ — in one instance he gives it another 18 months or 2 years — you can find these speeches online.
Thanks for your comment. Indeed, I was getting at the ability of historians to come up with just about any Jesus
I haven’t found Bart Ehrman’s rebuttals very compelling. I have not heard of Dr. Hurtado.
Carrier admits his thesis is probabilistic. An absence of evidence is not proof of absence, given Jesus’ lack of prominence during his lifetime. Still, lack of interest in the earthly life and teachings of Jesus in the letters of Paul, the earliest Christian written documents, is downright puzzling.
by Joseph Ratzinger, Pabst Benedikt XVI., published in German by Herder in 2012 as part of a trilogy on the life of Christ. It covers what the pope had learned of his subject's childhood years, namely not much.
Jesus von Nazareth
I’m no scholar of Christianity or the bible but I did go to mass as a youngster and two things are clear. One is that Paul is writing to existing Christians across the empire, not all of them congregations he set up. The other is that, he clearly talks about the resurrection. In corinthians 1 he says.
Still, lack of interest in the earthly life and teachings of Jesus in the letters of Paul, the earliest Christian written documents, is downright puzzling.
One of my favorite World War II historians is Paul Fussell. He was not an approved history professor, but an English professor who served with the US Army during World War II. This allowed him to write things like:
“I would read accounts of so-called battles I had been in, and they had no relation whatever to what had happened. ”
His book “Doing Battle” didn’t sell nearly as well as books by Stephen Ambrose, who somehow missed military service but became wealthy writing about brave and brilliant American troops in World War II. Perhaps Fussell’s work wasn’t popular because he insisted on writing:
“In the opinion of British military historian Max Hastings, the American forces were so bad (and actually so were most of the British) ‘that when Allied troops met Germans on anything like equal terms, the Germans almost always prevailed.’ Thank God the troops, most of them, didn’t know how bad we were. It’s hard enough to be asked to die in the midst of heroes, but to die in the midst of stumblebums led by fools — intolerable. And I include myself in this indictment.”
Fussell wrote that of the 12 million Americans who served during World War II, only one million volunteered. The rest entered “kicking and screaming” with the threat of imprisonment and spent the war scheming to avoid combat. His short book “The Boys’ Crusade”, is about infantrymen fighting in Europe during World War II where he served as a lieutenant. He noted many great books on the war, but wrote that all missed key elements, such as:
– Most fighting was done by American infantrymen, who were just out of high school. They were drafted and didn’t want to be in the war or the Army. The Army’s official tally was 19,000 deserters in Europe.
– Self-inflicted wounds (a downward bullet wound to a leg or arm) were so common that the Army kept a tally and used it to measure unit morale.
– When the U.S. Army’s new 106th Infantry Division was attacked at the beginning of the Battle of the Bulge, it didn’t put up a fight. Its boys were so startled by the unexpected appearance of large numbers of German panzers that officers jumped into jeeps and fled while 8000 GIs threw up their hands and surrendered.
– The “platoon guide” was a junior sergeant added to each infantry platoon whose duty was the trail the platoon and confront anyone who attempted to desert.
– During the Battle of the Bulge, the Germans sent 150 English speaking commandos dressed in US Army uniforms to infiltrate American frontlines and cause chaos. They were quickly captured because American MPs guarded all roadways. Any healthy soldier heading toward the rear was presumed a deserter and arrested and interrogated.
More in this video:

The Union Army did the same thing during the Civil War. That's why, to this very day, platoon sergeants and company first-sergeants always march behind their respective elements when in formation. During the Civil War, in fact, they had standing order to shoot any soldier who tried to desert in combat.Replies: @Alden
– The “platoon guide” was a junior sergeant added to each infantry platoon whose duty was the trail the platoon and confront anyone who attempted to desert.
I'd estimate 90% or more of white humanity wouldn't want to imitate Montaigne, judging from how people behave. They don't want to write essays in a simple life without luster, they want to party, travel, have fun. Furthermore, when they have retired here in clown world, people persist in not writing essays or becoming sages (though they do want us to listen to them).I would say it's actually fairly easy to imitate the lifestyle of Montaigne today, except if you really want that chateau of course. Books are basically free, good books are definitely free, walks in the forest or the city are free, and a modest NEET lifestyle in a small but comfortable apartment might even be covered by unemployment or disability or similar, if you can't get into academia.Replies: @Guillaume Durocher, @JackOH, @AaronB
Montaigne could afford his ‘simple life, without luster’ of an early retirement from burdensome public affairs in very dangerous times, to pursue his desire to become a celebrated sage, from the ‘detachment’ of his ivory tower at the Chateau de Montaigne, and with the help of a ‘simple’ wast wealth. Who wouldn’t like to imitate his life-style? But, alas, how many can afford it? Can you?
Correct!
Fart jokes.
Very curious. Thanks for the correction!
Very interesting! And worth talking about! Pop culture has an impact on everyone.
IIRC the second episode is ham-fisted Nazi allegory.