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"Bob who thinks Ron Fkd in the head on this"
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    Back in November I published a long column discussing the results of the 2018 midterm elections and then a couple of weeks ago I also released a private letter I'd distributed to prominent figures in the Alt-Right movement back in 2017, suggesting some of the ways that their public positions had severely damaged their credibility...
  • @Ron Unz

    Ron Unz is certainly intelligent and informed, and he posits a reasonable argument, whether one agrees with it or not. But he has his own bias, and it is patently revealed in referring to those who are, let us say, “pro-wall”, as “anti-immigration.” They are NOT anti-immigration. They are anti-ILLEGAL immigration. There is a HUGE difference...Your own credibility takes a hit when you misrepresent your opposition.
     
    Well, I don't think that's correct. My own absolutely sincere opinion based on almost 30 years of personal experience on the issue is that the overwhelming majority of energetic activists opposed to illegal immigration are just as strongly opposed to heavy legal immigration, and that certainly seems true of the leading figures in the field.

    But let's take a poll of the people here. How many commenters on this thread are enthusiastic supporters of building a border wall to stop illegal immigration, but don't have strong feelings one way or the other about the million legal immigrants we've been getting each year for the last decade or two?...

    It is silly to talk of nuance of legal immigration when current law is not enforced. If we can not first establish we have a right to enforce the laws we already have such talk is meaningless distraction.

    Do we US citizens have a right to enforce the law we already have established? The progressives do not accept that we do. The donor class of both parties do not accept that we do. The masses of illegal aliens currently in the US and those that wish to come do not accept that we do. The MSM do not accept that we do. The universities with some small exceptions do not accept that we do. Ron is silent.

    • Replies: @David Baker
    We have the right to petition the government for redress of grievances; One of those grievances bring the flood of non-citizens across our sovereign borders. We also have the right to keep and bear arms in order to defend ourselves against criminals and tyranny. As you may have noticed, our Bill of Rights is under siege, and we're now subject to surveillance and possible arrest if we exercise those rights.
  • @Ron Unz

    You’re being disingenuous. Why don’t you address the fact that an estimated 60% of those Mexicans deported between 1929 an 1936 were actually birthright citizens?
     
    Look, I was certainly planning to respond to your silly claim, but I'm also busy with other things...

    I'd never suggest that you're "disingenuous." But you are some Canadian activist who're repeatedly proven yourself totally ignorant of the history of American immigration policy. Apparently, you read a couple of Wikipedia articles and got confused.

    I'm *extraordinarily* skeptical of the claim that something like 600,000(!!!) US citizens were rounded up and summarily deported to Mexico during the 1930s, and just because some radical Chicano-activist once said it, doesn't make it true.

    The key point is that just like today Mexican illegals who'd been living in the US for a decade or more had often put down roots and had children here, who were automatically native-born US citizens. Obviously, when parents were deported, their young children went with them. Writing decades later, leftist Latino-activists distorted this reality into creating the impression that hundreds of thousands of Mexican-American US citizens were rounded up and deported to Mexico because of their ethnic background.

    Now given the poverty of the Mex-Am community, I'm sure it's true that considerable numbers of legal adults who didn't have their official paperwork at hand were deported in the huge roundup of illegals, and surely some US citizens were accidentally caught up as well.

    But I think that anyone who claims that 600,000 Mex-Am US citizens were rounded up and deported by FDR's government without any journalists noticing is simply insane.

    I think this is another perfect example of how leftist journalists and academics often seriously distort reality, and those distortions sometimes produce even worse confusion in the minds of ignorant rightwingers who take them at absolutely face value.

    It is only reasonable that minor children whatever their nationality should be presumed to be with their parents. The citizenship of minor children should have no bearing on immigration violation proceedings. If those parents opt to find alternate living situations for their US citizen children such as boarding schools and extended family that are legal residents that is also perfectly OK.

  • @Ron Unz

    1) But combination of 1929 law, who made it a felony to enter illegally and extreme border patrol intervention, reduced illegal entry to 0. Most illegal aliens deported themselves for fear of border patrol....This paper (infra) written by a pro-migration guys tell the story. Both your interpretation of 1965 act and the story of immigration with Mexico are blatantly false

    https://escholarship.org/content/qt0fh8773n/qt0fh8773n.pdf
     
    Thanks for finding that 1975 article from the "Chicana/o Latina/o Law Review"(LOL). I urge everyone to read it because it entirely confirms my factual claims, though with a considerable "anti-racist Amerikkka" spin.

    You claim that during the 1920s legal Mexican immigration was small (correct) and illegal immigration had been almost totally eliminated by the 1929 law (utterly false). If you check the Mexico legal immigration numbers during 1920-1930, you'll see they only total a few hundred thousand. Yet if you google the Mexican deportations of the early 1930s, you'll see there were millions Mexicans living the US, of whom at least hundreds of thousands and perhaps as many as 1.8M were deported/repatriated. Where did they all come from? Obviously, illegal Mexican immigration! Similarly, if you google "Operation Wetback" you'll see that there were very large numbers of illegals living/working in America, and something like 1M were rounded up and deported.

    The article does raise one important immigration restriction that I should have mentioned. Just as with European immigrants prior to the 1920s, all Latin American immigrants needed to pass a literacy test *in Spanish*. Since Mexican literacy back then was quite low among the impoverished farm-workers who constituted the bulk of the immigrants, that was certainly a formidable obstacle, perhaps more so than the $21(?) immigration fee. That's probably another major reason so many Mexicans came here illegally back then.

    But Mexican literacy is (allegedly) now 95%, and the rest of Latin America not far behind. Suppose we restored the pre-1965 immigration law that any Latin American who paid $21 and could prove he was literate *in Spanish* could freely immigrate to America. How many do you think would have come over the last 25-odd years? Or even today? If Trump advocated such a law, I'm not sure you and your friends would be very happy.

    Adjusted for inflation I think the roughly $300 would be a perfectly reasonable fee for a Mexican or Canadian citizen to pay for an application & background check to get a resident visa allowing them to live and work in the US. This visa would not give any preference to becoming a US citizen and would be renewable every 3 years. Any felony conviction or 3 misdemeanors in one consecutive 12 month period here or abroad would terminate the visa. Any social benefits received by these visa holders or their minor children who are not US citizens will be accounted for and will be billed to their respective governments. No limit on total number.

    This visa is only available to natural born Mexican or Canadian citizens. As our only direct border neighbors we give them a better deal than the rest of the world under the Sailer concentric circles plan.

    Visas that lead to Citizenship of course should be much harder to get.

    Concurrent H1B reform minimum $130k salary unlimited number same social benefits and citizenship policy.

    $21 in 1924 → $308.38 in 2018

    We can start talking about immigration law changes when INS certifies the total number of illegal aliens in the US is less than 100K and shows a plan to reduce that by another factor of 10.

  • @Ron Unz

    Unz you say anyone who wanted to from the western hemisphere could immgrate to the US pre65 very easily well then what was operation wetback or the mexican repatration act of the erarly 1930s about?

    Were those Mexicans so stupid that they went to the US illgally even tho they could have easily done it legally?
     
    Yes, that's another thing that has helped foster such total confusion among anti-immigration activists.

    Basically, any Mexican who paid something like $14-21 (the fee varied over the decades) and waited a day or two for processing could legally immigrate to the US. But since Mexican immigrants were generally poor and impatient and nobody paid any attention to the border anyway, lots of them just went back and worth as they wanted, thereby becoming "illegal immigrants," and risking the mass deportations of the 1930s and 1950s.

    Often, they weren't even thinking of "immigrating," just coming for temporary work, though they sometimes then settled down and stayed. And if you're just planning to come and work for a year or so, why waste $21?...which was a lot more money back then.

    I remember when I discovered all this a dozen or so years ago, I decided I could never again trust a single thing I heard from all those anti-immigration types unless I carefully checked it myself....

    There we go. In the past people broke our immigration laws to the point we found it a national problem. We did something about it. What man has done he can aspire to.

    I would prefer this type enforcement, but a wall is a good first step and the building of it establishes our intent to enforce our immigration law.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

    https://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Adverse-Possession
    1
    Build a fence or wall.

  • @Ron Unz

    Here’s a list of white Americans who were murdered in a predatory manner by illegals in 2018. They seem to be, at least, of middle class status.
     
    Some were, some weren't. Several of the names came up in a lengthy previous exchange with MarkinLA, and turned out to be street prostitutes or that sort of thing.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/racial-politics-in-america-and-in-california/#comment-2622750

    And remember, I specifically excluded e.g. girls killed by their boyfriends or people killed in a drug-deal or something.

    Mollie Tibbetts, Rocky Paul Jones, and Terra Reents all seem like solid cases. Stephen Ray Cruze was killed while sleeping under a pier by a serial killer targeting homeless men, but he apparently wasn't homeless, so I guess I'll give you that one. A couple on your list were killed by their boyfriends, hence excluded. Another couple don't look white to me or certainly don't seem like "ordinary middle class white people." Even being generous, the total seems 6 or 7, of which 3-4 are rock-solid.

    Remember, this is a sampling-technique since illegals are 3% of the US population, so you'd expect them to murder about 500 people per year if they were just of average criminality. That's a lot to count up, so finding 10 victims of a much more restricted type is a reasonable test.

    You weren't able to meet my challenge of TEN ordinary middle-class white victims killed in street-crimes, but let's assume that you had.

    Based on everything I've read, I'd estimate the annual number of similar middle-class white victims killed by blacks to be something like 400-500, perhaps much more than that. If you glance at "racist" websites, they have long lists of such victims every week. When I was arguing with "MarkinLA," I looked at the Daily Stormer, and found stories about EIGHT such victims in just TWO days, so perhaps the total is actually more like 1,000 per year.

    The point is if illegals murder (maybe) 10 ordinary whites per year and blacks (murder) maybe 500, and yet you choose to focus primarily on the "dangerous criminality" of illegals, you're basically a dishonest coward. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but that seems to be the attitude of most of the people I've been arguing with on this comment-thread.

    That's the reason I have so much more respect for the neo-Nazis over at the Daily Stormer than these sorts of typical loudmouth rightwing anti-immigration activists. How can anyone respect people who are just totally dishonest and cowardly?

    And as I also noted in my column, those neo-Nazi types also ridicule focusing on illegal immigration and "building a wall" as stupid ideas mostly aimed at stupid, cowardly people...

    Ron is OK with assaults, rapes, and murders of US citizens committed by illegal aliens so long it is committed at rates below the white crime rate, or against people from classes he finds not worth caring about.

    His logic is I should allow squatters to move into my house so long as they are less likely to kill me than my own three children. These squatters will help to push out blacks from the communities he and his elite friends might like. It is to be noted he does not extend that to they should move into his house.

    I am glad I didn’t play his crazy game when he invited me to.

    PS
    Ron You are probably aware of whatever the issue is with the UR but, I am getting lots of Cloudflare errors.

  • @Ron Unz

    If stopping or reducing immigration can be accomplished by mobilizing people around negative news about Hispanics, so be it. Mr. Unz seems to believe that his data in the end will have a greater impact and will end up hurting the credibility of the message exaggerating Hispanics criminality. Personally I doubt it.
     
    Well, here's the thing. My analysis and calculations are aimed at smart people, and the arguments you believe stronger are aimed at stupid people.

    Now under many circumstances, arguments aimed at smart people are far less effective than arguments aimed at stupid people, primarily because there are so many more of the latter. But stupid people are also massively influenced by media and celebrities, and your opponents have nearly 100% control over these latter. So relying upon arguments aimed at stupid people seems like a pretty doubtful political strategy to me.

    Given that Trump closed his midterm election campaign focused entirely on immigration and "the caravan danger" and the Republicans lost 40 House seats, I think the empirical evidence is on my side. But it's obviously your choice.

    Smart or stupid people both understand that people that don’t belong here that are not here commit no crime here. Your focus on rates and specific subsets of the crime stats will never shake that simple gut understanding that people from almost anywhere on the bell curve can understand.

  • @KenH

    Yes are you daft, even the greatest politicians are flawed and human.
     
    Daft, eh? Being flawed and human is being an alcoholic, gambling or occasional dalliances with prostitutes. Signing a holiday into law for a seriously flawed black civil rights leader who was a communist agent, wife beater, sex deviant, adulterer, and plagiarist and granting amnesty to over three million racially alien Democrats on arrival aren't the actions of a great politician.

    Those things almost overshadow his legacy of ending the cold war if one considers the effects these are having on the founding stock of America. Just four years after leaving office Ronnie's own state of California flipped permanently to the Democrats and is now a left wing stronghold and the very antithesis of things he stood for partly or largely due to his signing of amnesty legislation which put the family and relatives of amnesty recipients into the chain migration pool.

    And ironically illegal immigration actually worsened even with the "get tough" provisions in the legislation since it told illegal aliens they just had to sneak in, lay low and play for time until the next amnesty.

    But since you're a Bill of Rightsist, law and orderist, race doesn't matterist, cuckist and whatever else the long term racial implications of the Gipper's actions don't seem to matter much to you. A baby shit brown populace is just fine as long as we still have the Cohenstitution or if the brown folks just become citizenists.


    ....and I am an American Nationalist that does not translate to the generally accepted view of a WNist Ron was trying to dismiss me as. Somewhere on the axis of Buchananite/Kirkian paleo and Sailerian citizenism mingled with some boyhood Heinleinism is where i am.
     
    Golf clap. But the left doesn't care about such qualifiers. To them, if you want immigration law enforced you are a .....wait for it.....WHITE SUPREMO-CIST! All the other stuff will just make their eyes cross anyway. Ron Unz is as hateful and simple minded as leftists are if anyone dares to oppose his hispandering or his positions on hispanic immigration.

    I am not sure which part of KenH’s, hate Reagan, your a Cuck, and Ron is hateful and simple amused Ron, but good that his day was brightened.

    • Replies: @KenH

    I am not sure which part of KenH’s, hate Reagan, your a Cuck, and Ron is hateful and simple amused Ron, but good that his day was brightened.
     
    I do not hate Reagan but from the perspective of the typical white nationalist/alt-rightist/white racial advocate and in retrospect his presidency did not further white racial interests and in fact some things he did harmed them such as the boneheaded amnesty. Reagan practiced a race blind and "the economy and Israel is all that matters" conservatism which has done native born whites no favors.

    Your judging him by very different standards so we're simply going to have to agree to disagree.

  • @anonymous

    Seriously, why don’t you just find me the names of TEN ordinary white victims murdered in predatory crimes by illegals during all of 2018? There’s that Mollie somebody in Iowa who became a national sensation, so you just need to find 9 more…
     
    To be fair, it's difficult to find all the information one needs because the MSM doesn't report on all murders. Aside from some high profile murders of whites by illegals, I'm sure some fall through the cracks because the MSM doesn't investigate the killer's immigration status.

    Here's a list of white Americans who were murdered in a predatory manner by illegals in 2018. They seem to be, at least, of middle class status.

    1. Mollie Tibbets - no more need to be said.

    2. Rocky Paul Jones. Shot randomly by Gustavo Garcia, who attempted to be a spree killer but failed in his other attempts.

    3. Stephen Ray Cruze. Beaten to death by Ramon Escobar, a serial killer, who also beat 6 homeless men, killing 3 (2 blacks, 1 hispanic). Escobar also killed his uncle and aunt in TX.

    4. Madison Wells. Sixteen year old stabbed to death by ex-boyfriend, Bryan Cordero-Castro.

    5. Veronica Jester. Shot in head by Asunsion Martinez.

    6. Joyce Cluhey. Killed by Cesar Cono-Olvera.

    7. Russell Fisk. Shot in his car randomly by Arnoldo Pompa-Rascon, who shot two others who survived.

    8. Kinsey Beebe. Shot in the head by BF, Adonis Encinas Velarde, and his friend, Abraham Puentes Ortiz.

    9. Terra M. Reents. Stabbed to death at bar she worked at by Eliseo Hernandez-Sabastian, who stabbed another bar employee who survived.

    So there were 3 spree criminals. We should all be so "glad" that 2 were so bad in their aim.


    Here's 6 other ordinary Americans killed by illegals.

    10. Nicholas Boger. Black man shot to death during a robbery by Sergio Coello-Perez and Jonathan Castillo

    11. Ronil Singh. Police shot to death by Gustavo Perez Arriaga

    12. Faruk Bhuiya. Convenience store employee shot by Jose Bonilla-Ortiz

    13. Arthur Gomez Jr. Popular football coach shot dead by Joel Valera.

    14. Javier Rangel Sosa. Stabbed to death on fishing boat by co-worker, Franklin Freddy Meave Vazquez.

    15. Rahman Rupani. Store owner's son who intervened in an altercation outside store. Shot dead by Judas Deluna

    16. Jared Vargas. Murdered and burned by co-worker, Ernesto Esquivel Garcia.



    Then we have the disadvantaged Americans who were murdered. They were involved with prostitution, drugs, or were homeless. 6 whites, 2 blacks. There were hispanics, too, but I couldn't tell if they were citizens or not so they were omitted.

    Ann Farrin, Neidy Roche, Nurten Seljuk, Steven Marler, Aaron Hampton, Sabrina Starr, Kelvin Williams, Branden Ridout

    Last and not least, there are the vehicular homicides which can be worse than the predatory crimes because it can wipe out entire families and you cannot protect yourself by living in a segregated area away from illegals. The publicized cases I found consisted of 15 incidents: 9 whites, 2 blacks, 2 asians, 8 hispanics. Caveat is that I don't know if the asians or hispanics were citizens, I'm not listing them as a result. 60% were DUI, rest were reckless driving, almost all included hit and run - they were left to die.

    Amanda Ferguson Weyant - 6th grade teacher
    Logan and Jessica Wilson - left behind 3 young children
    Charles Byrdic - killed in front yard
    Amy Hawkins - bike rider
    Matthew D. Barthel - left behind wife and two children
    Justin Lee - 14 yr old bike rider
    John Anderson - burned alive in truck
    Edwin Jackson, Jeffrey Monroe - NFL football player and his Uber driver
    Jamar Rashaun Beach - riding motorcycle


    For calculating homicide numbers of illegals in TX I used this source, the June 2018 - Quarterly report on Alien Incarcerations.

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/departments-justice-and-homeland-security-release-quarterly-alien-incarceration-report

    Using their numbers, I get 193 homicides a month which makes illegals committing 13.8% of homicides. Pew Hispanic claims that illegals are 6.1% of the population in Texas.

    An additional source of information comes from David Olen Cross who specializes in Oregon data. He correlates Oregon incarceration data with ICE detainer numbers.

    https://docfnc.wordpress.com/2019/01/12/oregon-department-of-corrections-foreign-national-homicide-report-december-2018/

    According to his data, illegals commit 7.4% of homicides and 6.1% of crime in Oregon. Pew Hispanic claims that illegals are 3.2% of the population in Oregon.

    Just sayin'

    Good on you that you went to all the effort of playing Ron’s silly game.

    It is perfectly legitimate to resent any and all crime committed by illegal aliens as they should not be here to commit any crimes. I resent the ones committed by Asian illegal immigrants just as much and they are a damn site fewer.

    Do we US citizens have a right to enforce the law we already have established? The progressives do not accept that we do. The donor class of both parties do not accept that we do. The masses of illegal aliens currently in the US and those that wish to come do not accept that we do. The MSM do not accept that we do. The universities with some small exceptions do not accept that we do. Ron is silent.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Do we US citizens have a right to enforce the law we already have established? The progressives do not accept that we do.
     
    There are lots of immigrants, some of them illegal, sons of immigrants who came as children to the US, and sons of immigrants who were born in the US present in Florida's (my state) prisons, so I guess laws are being pretty vigorously enforced regardless of the family history of the perpetrator.

    Should laws against illegal immigration be enforced? Yes, of course, but Trump and the whole administration, including those who call themselves conservatives, have been very weak against this.

    In the United Kingdom (some of this is quoted from Wikipedia) in February 2008, the government introduced new £10,000 fines for employers found to be employing illegal immigrants where there is negligence on the part of the employer, with unlimited fines or jail sentences for employers acting knowingly.

    In July 2013, the Home Office introduced an advertising lorry in London with its billboard saying "In the UK illegally? — GO HOME OR FACE ARREST — Text HOME to 78070 for free advice, and help with travel documents. We can help you return home voluntarily without fear of arrest or detention."

    In 2015 the newly elected Conservative Government announced it would be requiring Landlords to confirm the immigration status of tenants. Those failing to do so, or knowingly or unknowingly housing illegal immigrants could face criminal prosecution.

    Amendments to the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 1989 have excluded a number of vulnerable groups from being eligible for free healthcare, including failed asylum seekers, undocumented migrants and those who had overstayed their visa.

    These individuals are required to pay an immigrant health surcharge, however this seems to be rarely enforced due to the fact that the cost of providing most health care is minor relative to the cost of enforcing document reviews, although this may not be so in the case of childbirth.

    The federal goverment is responsible for immigration enforcement in the US, and really needs to get its finger out of its ass in regard to issues like employers of illegal immigrants, landlords, Medicaid, provision of education, and issuing driver licenses and driver insurance.

    There is probably a good case for constructing a wall or fencing in some areas of the border where it does not already exist, or where the Rio Grande does not present a good enough barrier, but this should form only a small part of a comprehensive plan for preventing illegal border crossings, visa overstays, and so on.

    However none of this seems to provide any justification for shutting down parts of government by the executive branch and refusing to sign a bill for border funding and other government services that has has bilateral approval.
  • @Thomm
    Now, in quasi-defense of RUnzie Baby, the question of Hispanic (specifically Meso-American Hispanic) crime is almost a moot question, partly due to the very high intermarriage rates between Mexicans and whites in America.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/FT_17.06.01_multiracialBabies_map.png

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/05/15153113/PST_2017.05.15.intermarriage-00-00.png

    These charts are from 2010-15 data. Fast forward to today, and each state is probably 3-4 percentage points higher than in the chart, making CA 25%+.

    The two populations are substantially merged, and are becoming more so each year. If crime is done by males aged 16-25, the babies born in 2010-15 are not too many years away from being in that age band (with more to follow).

    Among other points :

    i) The narrative that whites are ‘vanishing’ from California would greatly diminish if all the half-white children are counted. Since most of the 22% of babies that are interracial as of 2015 in CA are half-white, counting the half-white components of each leads to a higher number of aggregate whites in CA.
    ii) As the typical Mexican is 40% white, the offspring of a Mexican and a white American is going to be 70% white, 30% AmerIndian. Appearance-wise, such a person would just look like an Italian or a Univision Spaniard-Mexican.
    iii) If not the the continuous topping of of new Hispanics and Asians, both populations would just vanish into the white population through interbreeding.

    “among those living with two parents”

    What an odd qualifier on that statistic. I wonder why they excluded children living with one parent? Given the extreme number of out of wedlock births in some groups I would speculate that that the rates were even high among those children. The melting pot has worked in the past and can work again if we just choose to enforce our border.

  • @David Baker
    The laws Jews want to be enforced are promulgated by their ilk: Hate Crime Laws, Anti-Revisionist Resolutions passed by the U.N., Anti-Israel Boycott Statutes, laws forbidding the blocking of Abortion Offices (The tribe is big on abortions), laws requiring the removal of Religious Symbols and Practices, References or Influences from public venues (While that 40 foot Menorah is set up on the White House Lawn, and our leaders journey to Jerusalem to bang their heads on the Wailing Wall....) Any other inconvenient statutes will be ignored, or characterized as an application of "Hate" by White Nationalists against their camp followers. (No pun intended.)

    There are things I have problems with some or some specific subsets of US Jewish citizens about. Such as the Jewish over representation (roughly 50% of all white admits thanks for the numbers Ron) at elite universities. That subset that put Israeli interest before US interest. Ron when he bangs on about Hispanic crime rates and crime stat specifics as justification for maintaining the status quo on illegal immigration. Please do not confuse that for a problem with Jews collectively. The kind nutty local Rabbi lady that is one of the few I directly know is a perfectly nice person as are the vast majority. I find this true of all races and ethnicities.

    • Replies: @David Baker
    You've managed to delineate the tribe on the basis of their citizenship status: Jews are Diaspora. They're Dual Citizens wherever they 'set up shop'. EVERY ONE OF THEM! Their behavior has no bearing on that status. Israel was established as a Safe House for Jews to seek refuge. If you wish to study the reasons why they need(ed) to seek refuge, read about the Bolsheviks. Look into World War I (Or the sequel, for that matter..) Pre-Hitler Germany, Spain, Italy, now Russia, France and several other nations from which they are getting--or have gotten- the boot. Soros shines like a beacon as a Diaspora Globalist. Macedonians demonstrated the historical reaction of many goyim toward that tribe.
  • @Ron Unz

    I am at a loss in understanding Ron’s focus on the specific number or rates here... and again leaves me with the conclusion that Cochran is right on some things Ron is just crazy.
     
    Well, look. If you and your friends want to rant and rave about Hispanic immigrant crime when the data shows it's not really all that much of a problem, you just come across like crazy nutjobs to normal people.

    Here's a piece of friendly advice. When you look like crazy nutjobs and your political opponents totally control the media, you tend to lose political battles.

    I assume you're some sort of WN-type horrified about non-white immigration. You and your friends have been ranting and raving about immigration for around twenty-five years now, and I'd say your record of political defeat during that period is just about 100%. As a consequence, something close to 25 million(!) additional non-white immigrants have permanently moved to the U.S.

    Given that 25 year record of absolutely unbroken failure, don't you think that maybe you should consider trying something a little different?...

    Yes, Ron I am well aware of the disdain and hate held out for me and mine, by the progressive elites and their “coalition of the fringes” © iSteve, by the donor class of both parties, by the illegal aliens currently in the US and those that wish to come, by the MSM and the universities. At this point labels like Deplorable, Bitter Clinger, and Crazy Nutjob can only be seen as a badges of honor.

    I take a Razib like exception to the WN label as it has a more specific meaning that is generally accepted and certainly does not reflect my beliefs. I would hold my own beliefs out as having influence from primarily my own republican small business owner father followed by Heinlein/Asimov/Clarke, Pournelle->Kirk, Buchanan, iSteve, Steve Hsu. There are certainly many who would brand the WN label on any or all of those, but anyone who does is either unserious, a dishonest liar, lazy, or crazy, and is beyond having a rational conversation with. I hold out Reagan as the sole great politician of my lifetime. It is like your previous statement that I have been “taken in by a ridiculous hoax”. In both cases you give no context. Without such reference it is impossible to refute, and so I must conclude only insult & dismissal intended.

    With respect to “trying something a little different”, good god we elected Trump what could we possibly try more different than that?

    Do we US citizens have a right to enforce the law we already have established? The progressives do not accept that we do. The donor class of both parties do not accept that we do. The masses of illegal aliens currently in the US and those that wish to come do not accept that we do. The MSM do not accept that we do. The universities with some small exceptions do not accept that we do. Ron is silent.

    • Replies: @David Baker
    The laws Jews want to be enforced are promulgated by their ilk: Hate Crime Laws, Anti-Revisionist Resolutions passed by the U.N., Anti-Israel Boycott Statutes, laws forbidding the blocking of Abortion Offices (The tribe is big on abortions), laws requiring the removal of Religious Symbols and Practices, References or Influences from public venues (While that 40 foot Menorah is set up on the White House Lawn, and our leaders journey to Jerusalem to bang their heads on the Wailing Wall....) Any other inconvenient statutes will be ignored, or characterized as an application of "Hate" by White Nationalists against their camp followers. (No pun intended.)
    , @KenH

    I hold out Reagan as the sole great politician of my lifetime.
     
    The man who signed the MLK holiday into law and amnestied over three million illegal aliens.
  • Ron’s logic implies that so long as they are less likely to murder me than my own three children I should allow squatters to move into my home. It is insane.

  • @Ron Unz

    12 Americans killed by illegals in 2018:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/01/02/in-memoriam-12-americans-allegedly-killed-by-illegal-aliens-in-2018/
     

    Excellent! Upthread, I had once again repeated my regular challenge:

    I challenge you to find just TEN cases during all of 2018 in which an ordinary, middle-class, law-abiding white person was murdered in a “street crime” by an illegal. This excludes wives stabbing husbands, drug dealers shooting each other, and that sort of thing. If there are 11M illegals and 15K homicides and you can’t find TEN during an entire year by sifting the archives of Breitbart and Daily Stormer, maybe you should stop watching FoxNews so much.
     
    Given the enormous efforts Breitbart surely put into this project, I'd think they looked far and wide and found every single notable homicide by illegals during 2018...but apparently there were almost none.

    There's that Mollie somebody in Iowa and some poor guy killed in Visalia, CA, but that's just about it. There was some (seemingly part-white) girl killed by her boyfriend, and a couple of doubtful cases, probably criminals killed by other criminals. So the 2018 total is probably TWO, though maybe a little higher than that.

    Given 11M illegals and 15,000 annual homicides, that's pretty astonishing...especially if you foolishly believe that illegals have high crime rates.

    All of you should focus your energies on the far greater danger of ordinary white Americans getting hit by lightning...

    I am at a loss in understanding Ron’s focus on the specific number or rates here. He seems to think there is some low number where these crimes would be acceptable and should be tolerated. I don’t see any acceptably low threshold for assaults, rapes, and murders committed by people who should not be here.

    It is a very straight forward equation. People who do not belong here that are not here do not commit crimes here. His tolerance for some number of assaults, rapes, and murders as justified by him because they mostly are not committed against whites who are strangers to the perpetrators befuddles me, and again leaves me with the conclusion that Cochran is right on some things Ron is just crazy.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    I am at a loss in understanding Ron’s focus on the specific number or rates here... and again leaves me with the conclusion that Cochran is right on some things Ron is just crazy.
     
    Well, look. If you and your friends want to rant and rave about Hispanic immigrant crime when the data shows it's not really all that much of a problem, you just come across like crazy nutjobs to normal people.

    Here's a piece of friendly advice. When you look like crazy nutjobs and your political opponents totally control the media, you tend to lose political battles.

    I assume you're some sort of WN-type horrified about non-white immigration. You and your friends have been ranting and raving about immigration for around twenty-five years now, and I'd say your record of political defeat during that period is just about 100%. As a consequence, something close to 25 million(!) additional non-white immigrants have permanently moved to the U.S.

    Given that 25 year record of absolutely unbroken failure, don't you think that maybe you should consider trying something a little different?...
  • @Ron Unz
    Well, we're fast closing in on 500 comments, so I might as well add an additional point about "media bias"...

    As everyone here knows, the "MSM Megaphone" generally trumpets or ignores crimes based on PC-type principles. For example, the story of that little black girl killed in Houston was well on its way to becoming the #1 worldwide crime story until they discovered that instead of some "white racist," her killers were just the usual sort of violent black gangsters.

    But the same problem is exactly true about the conservative media.

    For example, a few days ago an attractive young 22-year-old second-generation policewoman was brutally assassinated in the college-town of Davis, CA, the first killing of a police officer there in 60 years. She was standing on the street, taking information on a minor car accident when her assailant came up to her, shot her once for no reason, then emptied his gun into her as she lay on the street. He had a long police record, and also clearly had serious psychological problems.

    If she had been white and her killer Hispanic, let alone an illegal immigrant, it would have spent many weeks as the #1 story on FoxNews and every other rightwing media outlet, with Trump making it the centerpiece of all his speeches and Tweets.

    But as it happened, she was Hispanic and her killer white, so probably nobody outside of Northern california has ever heard of it.

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article224336545.html

    Basically, conservative news outlets are just as dishonest as the liberal ones, but simply less powerful and pervasive in their influence...

    Sure again your right. Though there is not parity between the former and the latter. The MSM has a vastly bigger footprint. It is much like your other points about the immigration law detail and Hispanic crime rate detail in that none of it addresses the fundamental question.

    Do we US citizens have a right to enforce the law we already have established? The progressives do not accept that we do. The donor class of both parties do not accept that we do. The masses of illegal aliens currently in the US and those that wish to come do not accept that we do. The MSM do not accept that we do. The universities with some small exceptions do not accept that we do. Ron is silent.

    Trump said we do and he would get the wall built to prove it. It was one of the keys that got us deplorable bitter clingers out there. If he succeeds he will join the pantheon of the great with Washington, Lincoln, TR, Reagan. If he fails in this he joins Carter at the bottom compounded with the ignominious stink and taint of Nixon’s resignation as the progressives hound him out.

    We never were confused. We always knew he is a flawed man, but he did not hate us and he knew the nation we aspire to and its past and potential future greatness. Pray god that he rises above his flaws and succeeds.

  • Before this drags on much longer, let me say thanks Ron for the Unz Review and your support of iSteve. I respect you immensely; your facts on Harvard admissions and willingness to put yourself out there are astonishing.

    Thanks
    Bob

  • @Ron Unz

    As a US citizen it is still perfectly reasonable to resent each and every crime committed by illegal immigrants of any and all races and ethnicities. These are all crimes the US population should not have had to endure as these people should not have been here.We resent each assault, rape, and murder...

    https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-alien-statistics
     
    Well, homicide is a pretty useful metric since reporting is close to 100%. And that Border Patrol crime-reporting webpage you provided listed an average of less than FIVE homicides per year by "criminal aliens." Obviously, that's just a small subset of the true national total, which is surely far higher. But given that we have 15,000 homicides per year, is that really the sort of evidence you want to provide demonstrating the great dangers of illegal immigrant crime?

    Maybe you should start focusing on a far greater danger to the lives and safety of ordinary white Americans, namely getting struck by lightning!

    Again you are back to focusing on irrelevant detail. We have both agreed the number of murders of US citizens by illegal aliens is greater than 0 but small relevant to the total number of murders in the US. From there you jump to nonsense cracks about lightning. Illegal aliens are not an act of god like lightning. We have enforced our border in the past, and what man has done he can aspire to. Walls & fences on a farm are good policy as are lightning rods. They help to mitigate known risk.

    Before you run on to more irrelevant detail Ron please do answer the prior question:

    Do we US citizens have a right to enforce the law we already have established?

  • The hill

    “As Americans, we should only care about three things: (1) are the immigrants in the U.S. illegally; (2) have they committed violent crimes predominantly against U.S. citizens; and (3) had these criminals not been in our country illegally, these crimes, the victimization of our citizens and the costs of their crimes borne by American taxpayers could have been completely avoided.”

    https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/crime/329589-the-truth-about-crime-illegal-immigrants-and-sanctuary-cities

  • • Replies: @Ron Unz

    More illegal alien crime:
    https://www.dps.texas.gov/administration/crime_records/pages/txcriminalalienstatistics.htm
     
    Okay, that Texas report states that across most of a decade, "illegal criminal aliens" were convicted of homicide at an average rate of about 30/year.

    A quick check reveals that TX averages about 1,400 homicides per year. So illegals apparently account for around 2% of the total, probably substantially below their share of the TX population. And I'd guess that the number of ordinary white "stranger victims" is almost invisibly small.

    Seriously, why don't you just find me the names of TEN ordinary white victims murdered in predatory crimes by illegals during all of 2018? There's that Mollie somebody in Iowa who became a national sensation, so you just need to find 9 more...
  • @Ron Unz

    I am sure the mothers and fathers of those citizens assaulted, raped, murdered by illegal aliens are much comforted by the notion that the children they and their fellow citizens didn’t have would have committed more crime if only they didn’t exist.
     
    Well, offhand you sound like some agitated halfwit who's been taken in by a ridiculous hoax, but perhaps you can prove me wrong. Here's a challenge I've previously made on several occasions...

    There are supposedly 11M illegals (though some of you believe that's a severe under-count), putting them at over 3% of the national population. We also have 15,000 annual homicides. So if illegals were just average, they'd murder about 500 people per year. But trying to figure out if they actually kill that many would be very difficult, so let's try a much easier sampling technique.

    I challenge you to find just TEN cases during all of 2018 in which an ordinary, middle-class, law-abiding white person was murdered in a "street crime" by an illegal. This excludes wives stabbing husbands, drug dealers shooting each other, and that sort of thing. If there are 11M illegals and 15K homicides and you can't find TEN during an entire year by sifting the archives of Breitbart and Daily Stormer, maybe you should stop watching FoxNews so much.

    My guess is that an average of about ten middle-class whites are killed each year by lightning, so maybe lighting-strikes are one of our greatest national threats.

    Given all the "mothers and fathers" whom you say have been crying about their murdered white children, it should be pretty easy. So go to it!

    See my prior post 118 in this thread. I have already granted your points on the facts of the 1924 & 1965 immigration laws, and Hispanic crime rates, and explained why those arguments are wanting. I am not sure what hoax you think I am taken in by as you don’t explain. I certainly accept the agitated halfwit description as fair critique given the intentional insulting nature of the handle I adopted for this post. Your challenge like those points is not germane to the key point of contention.

    Do we US citizens have a right to enforce the law we already have established?

    I repeat myself here:

    I accept the crime rates are substantially as shown in his 2017 California Police Shootings and Killings bar chart. As a US citizen it is still perfectly reasonable to resent each and every crime committed by illegal immigrants of any and all races and ethnicities. These are all crimes the US population should not have had to endure as these people should not have been here. We resent each assault, rape, and murder of a US citizen by an illegal immigrant with no regard for race or ethnicity of either victim or perpetrator.

    https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-alien-statistics

    FY2016 FY2017 FY18TD
    Assault, battery, domestic violence 1,007 692 506
    Burglary, robbery, larceny, theft, fraud 825 595 322
    Driving under the influence 2,458 1,596 1,062
    Homicide, manslaughter 8 3 3
    Illegal drug possession, trafficking 1,797 1,249 816
    Illegal entry, re-entry 7,060 4,502 3,637
    Illegal weapons pos, tras, trafficking 237 173 98
    Sexual offenses 155 137 78
    Other2 2,544 1,851 1,298

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    As a US citizen it is still perfectly reasonable to resent each and every crime committed by illegal immigrants of any and all races and ethnicities. These are all crimes the US population should not have had to endure as these people should not have been here.We resent each assault, rape, and murder...

    https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-alien-statistics
     
    Well, homicide is a pretty useful metric since reporting is close to 100%. And that Border Patrol crime-reporting webpage you provided listed an average of less than FIVE homicides per year by "criminal aliens." Obviously, that's just a small subset of the true national total, which is surely far higher. But given that we have 15,000 homicides per year, is that really the sort of evidence you want to provide demonstrating the great dangers of illegal immigrant crime?

    Maybe you should start focusing on a far greater danger to the lives and safety of ordinary white Americans, namely getting struck by lightning!
  • @Ron Unz

    You dodged the question about whether (non-black) crime rates in an alternate 2019 with no Hispanic immigration would be lower than our actual 2019 (along with the rest of the points).
     
    Well, if you exclude the Puerto Ricans---whom as you admit aren't immigrants---the remainder of the Hispanic population seems to have crime rates that are very similar to whites of the same age.

    So, except for the fact that Hispanic immigration made America considerably more youthful, it's not clear that the crime was much impacted. If white American families had had more children, the results would have probably been about the same.

    I am sure the mothers and fathers of those citizens assaulted, raped, murdered by illegal aliens are much comforted by the notion that the children they and their fellow citizens didn’t have would have committed more crime if only they didn’t exist.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    I am sure the mothers and fathers of those citizens assaulted, raped, murdered by illegal aliens are much comforted by the notion that the children they and their fellow citizens didn’t have would have committed more crime if only they didn’t exist.
     
    Well, offhand you sound like some agitated halfwit who's been taken in by a ridiculous hoax, but perhaps you can prove me wrong. Here's a challenge I've previously made on several occasions...

    There are supposedly 11M illegals (though some of you believe that's a severe under-count), putting them at over 3% of the national population. We also have 15,000 annual homicides. So if illegals were just average, they'd murder about 500 people per year. But trying to figure out if they actually kill that many would be very difficult, so let's try a much easier sampling technique.

    I challenge you to find just TEN cases during all of 2018 in which an ordinary, middle-class, law-abiding white person was murdered in a "street crime" by an illegal. This excludes wives stabbing husbands, drug dealers shooting each other, and that sort of thing. If there are 11M illegals and 15K homicides and you can't find TEN during an entire year by sifting the archives of Breitbart and Daily Stormer, maybe you should stop watching FoxNews so much.

    My guess is that an average of about ten middle-class whites are killed each year by lightning, so maybe lighting-strikes are one of our greatest national threats.

    Given all the "mothers and fathers" whom you say have been crying about their murdered white children, it should be pretty easy. So go to it!
  • I never understand how Ron remains so willfully obtuse on this. Which leaves me with Cochran’s conclusion that Ron is Fkd in the head on some things. Ron is locked on points that are orthogonal to the issue. The issue is simple, do the American people have the right to control our boarders or not? The rest is all just political maneuvering.

    1) Let us start with the facts of the 1924 and 1965 immigration laws. Ron is correct. Being correct on that is in no way sufficient to addressing the issue. The 1965 law opened the door wider to some and narrowed it for others true enough. Now had it ever been enforced in any meaningful way for the later portion he might have a point, but it wasn’t so he doesn’t.

    2) Hispanic crime rates. I think he has well established that they are only marginally higher than white crime rates. I think if the slightly higher rate is only age curve related or an actual slightly higher base rate is still an open question. Again being correct on that is in no way sufficient to addressing the issue. I accept the crime rates are substantially as shown in his 2017 California Police Shootings and Killings bar chart. As a US citizen it is still perfectly reasonable to resent each and every crime committed by illegal immigrants of any and all races and ethnicities. These are all crimes the US population should not have had to endure as these people should not have been here. We resent each assault, rape, and murder of a US citizen by an illegal immigrant with no regard for race or ethnicity of either victim or perpetrator.

    What is the appropriate rate to set legal immigration is a stupid discussion to have at this time if we don’t first establish that we the American citizens have a right to enforce the law we already have established. Now myself I would prefer Operation Wetback style enforcement against the illegal aliens inclusive of the DACA recipients. Given I don’t see a political path to that right now, I find a southern boarder wall a perfectly reasonable and cheap first step to establishing the right of the American people to control our boarders. It is not the end, but rather just one step in the right direction.