N, there are different kinds.

I’m not much of a social conservative-the type that inveighs against pop culture and what not. Rather, I suscribe to REASON magazine’s idea of plentitude.

Multiculturalism is a facet of our society-and generally honored symbolically more than in substance-but that is changing. Most Americans do not “practice” multiculturalism.

As far as the issue about patriotism-that did happen to conservatives like Falwell and Robertson after 9/11. It seems OK to attack American culture, just don’t contrast it with someone else or say that it “had it coming”-which is what Leftists tend to do when contrasting the US with Europe or back in the old days the Socialist Utopia.

well steve,

i tend to follow the maxim that the best leaders are mildly bright and highly personable. so i tend to agree with you. that is also part of the reason that i do not subscribe to a “Brave New World Technocracy.”

that’s just women. blondes just have more opportunity to play them….

it has been noted that legislative leaders tend not to be the brightest, because those types tend to rub their envious fellows the wrong way. i suspect the same goes for executive leaders. even though al gore and george bush are about the same intelligence (bush got a 1200 on the SAT, gore a 1300something-both were mediocre students as far as grades go)-bush *seemed* dumber. similarly, though carter and clinton probably had the same IQ-carter the geek (nuclear engineering) was far less appealing than clinton the humanist (history & law). the fact that clinton liked trailer trash and desparate sluts also made him seem less intelligent-or at least less driven by the mind.

1) i deserved that, after all my rambling about how people are *different* and not *superior* or *inferior*
🙂

2) the tall-dark-handsome thing is interesting, though i wonder at those who assert that indo-european gods tend to be “blonde-beasts.” most women i know do tend to associate blonde men with an almost child-like beauty-and before the 19th century i have read that blonde males were stereotyped as feckless dreamers. would be nice to have more data on this (anyone know the hair color of the homeric heroes well? i believe achilles, odysseus and idomeneus are all described as “red-haired”)

it’s mean to laugh at people that don’t ask for humiliation-but these people are going on TV of their own free will. it’s the price of 50 million dolars (so they think!).

i read that article too. proportionality is funny. i guess the theory is that what makes a great player also makes a great coach. something to it, but not to the extent that people might think.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49090-2002Dec28.html

article about prince george’s county-coming from the no doubt racist WASHINGTON POST (note that they use “urban” to describe both DC and Prince George’s)

1) the germanic democratic consensus on social democracy is remiscient of the populace demanding that augustus stay on as princeps-he established peace and order, the liberty of a few aristocrats be damned

2) my general point-all cultures go through phases, and unfortunately liberty seems to give way to autocracy as time progresses.

joanne’s idea is common, and i myself think it has some validity. what we should look at is do non-
agricultural societies have the same preferences? the australian aborigines for instance consider
blondeness a female trait, and rather attractive.

you mean the work of the gods of yore? 🙂

i was just making fun of the obsession with hypodescent that seems to be the vogue among modern day
black intellectuals-and was the norm for white america less than a generation ago.

might comment on it later.

oh, and one thing, Truth Teller keeps saying how i’m “black,” perhaps by some definitions, but when i am
the object of racial slurs, they tend to be “camel jockey,” “dot-head,” and most commonly “sand nigger,”
the adjective “sand” implying that most american bigots differentiate between various “nigger” groups.
kind of amusing how some red-necks are more sophisticated than racial activists….

and i’ve seen a picture of dave, he looks as white as snow.

i wish it weren’t so. like differences in g between the races, i would like to be refuted. but the facts speak for themselves.

addendum-my cryptic phrase above indicates that yes, i think they WOULD FIGURE IT OUT, but the agassiz of their day would have much more tangible proof of their “Flood Geology”-and probably slow down evolutianary science.

anyway, this is starting to become a science fiction scenario 🙂

sorry diana-no HTMLing in the messages anymore. doesn’t add too much, and too many people forget to
end their with

1) american muslims tend to be more educated than average (among the most educated groups in fact) if you look just at immigrants (the black muslim community is less so)

2) the british muslim community is more working class-and have been hard hit by the “rust belt” syndrome.

3) as for bangladeshis, my impression is that they are more quiescient than pakistanis in the UK-because they are too new and too poor to agitate (though they are part of the bradford riots, it was mostly a mirpur-pakistani one from what i know). as usual, the most dangerous group are british-born but not upwardly-mobile-so they are pakistani as bangladeshis are more of a 1st generation community (and there are far fewer).

[also-there is a big fission between syhletti and non-syhletti bangladeshis]

but jay, then you would assume that south africa would have the epidemic more in control than say mozambique. but such is not the case. though i’m sure what you say has something to it-the difference between the xhosa and zulu in terms of infection rates, with the former circumcised and the latter un-circumcised, hint to me that sexually behavior is the main determinent.

comes naturally to some 🙂 naw, i have a passion for archaeogenetics though. nice to see SOMEONE
read it. though i wouldn’t care if no one did.

one point-there is a big difference between gaza and the west bank-the former is traditionally more
deprived than the latter. also, infant mortality is really low in gaza compared to africa-thank you UN
(gaza has the world’s highest population growth rate)

duende,

1) because most white people don’t differentiate. i’m frequently asked by the ignorant if i BOTH face mecca when i pray and worship cows.

one more fact, the south asians in the UK are about 50% muslim, 25% sikh (mostly punjabi) and 25% hindu. a large portion of the hindu’s are refugees from east africa, and this group tends to be the most successful and assimilable.

david, there are about 6 or 7 ladies probably that read GNXP, out of the ~300 daily readers 🙂

dave,

spoken like a lady 🙂 [speaking from the perspective of evolutionary psychology]

well comparing hindus to muslims-the former seem much more manageable. the issue of balkanization is/has been addressed in other places. not enough time right now to give a good treatment 🙂

nice post dan. but a few points

1) black male slaves in the arab lands were usually enuchs, outside of arab africa (morocco to egypt). the
female contribution would be more important, but even then, black slaves were given really crappy jobs
(white slav and circassians tended to have the cushy “house slave” jobs that involved master-servant
contact). turkey had plenty of black slaves, but physically, few turks look black, but many bear the
imprint of their slavic forbears (including attaturk, who was probably of albanian and macedonian origin).

2) many of the great russian chess players are jewish (a quibble)

3) i believe that races difference in mean levels of g-but the explainations are much more sketchy. tell
someone in africa that it’s a less harsh climate than that of england or sweden! different, not harder or
easier. amenable to different adaptations. i personally think coevolved pathogens are very important for r
vs. K selection strategies.

4) i agree about the idea that lower IQ populations can do well economically within a high IQ society. i
will be frank: i believe g is part of the reason that african-americans do not have much wealth generation
of their own, and have issues with middle-men minorities running businesses in their own communities.
on the other hand, a black middle class has developed around public sector jobs.

kasporav is jewish and azeri for instance-not great russian. using russian jews as a barometer for russians
is like using tamil brahmins as a barometer for indians.

israel is 20% arab and half the jews are “sephardic” (which includes non-sephardic oriental jews from
iraq, yemen and central asian, not to mention the falashas). for jewish IQ, look not further than the
ashkenazi elite.

as godless would have said, israel has a multi-modal IQ distribution 🙂 also, as far as irish IQ, the fact that
protestants in Northern Ireland have far higher IQs than catholics is always used as proof that racial
differences don’t really exist, just prejudice (obviously, i don’t believe that one leads to the other).

steelers 21, browns 10.

diana-

i’ve talked about this before 🙂 the religion thing. religious people tend to get mad when i point out that
secularism doesn’t seem to have caused chaos here in oregon or sweden, or that religion doesn’t mean that
black areas or africa are panaceas. a religion response would be-well, imagine how bad it would be if not
for religion.

oleg-

let me reframe my position-i favor western civilization not because it is white, but because it is liberal. if
western civilization starts taking an illiberal path-which racialism tends to be-my position would change.
i do think that whites tend to at this time be most predisposed to liberalism, so i’m not in favor of massive
ethnic changes in a society. on the other hand-judging people by their race tends to generally be percieved
as illiberal…so, how do we square this circle?

to me the answer is to limit immigration so that the character of the society does not change especially
fast, but allow change to occur so that everyone in the world knows that liberalism truly does reward merit
and gives one one’s just deserts.

well, much of southern europe was illiberal until the 1990s-and there is still some debate about whether
france & germany for instance are truly liberal-though compared to the rest of the world…..

diana, do you want your IP to be banned??? 🙂

actually-you can keep saying “steeler suck” until they are out of the playoffs (if-gods willing they will win it all!). but once they lose-well, then it will have a different bite alltogether.

these terms you are using are more for entertainment purposes in my opinion. after all, bavarians and
austrians tend to be “alpine.”

i wasted way too much time looking for a pic that fit my size specs (i hate setting img limits since they distort) and where the site was big enough that i could steal bandwidth….

andrea corr is pretty fine IMO.

well, 1) you know i was joking, 2) mumba doesn’t have a relationship with her zambian father from what i know, so she’s particulary irish identified (the few videos i’ve seen with her involve white men)

well yes, i’m just saying she’s much more likely to have south asian than the woman to her left (our right)

“Sorry to use this method to communicate. Since you moved to your new site your blog does not load in my fully patched IE browser running on fully patched WinXP. I suspect there is some critical scripting error. Shame, I liked visiting…”

i’ve checked out this site on WinXP and exp 6.0…perhaps the patches fixed something, i don’t know. i try to make sure everything is XTMLized, but i know it isn’t

well-i will try to work out the rawlsian implications of hbd sometime in the future

black christianity is theologically conservative. ask john spong-left-wing episcopal bishop. conservative’s were laughing their asses off when he finally lost it and accused black Anglican bishops of being retograde primitives a chicken-sacrifice anyway from being animistic fetish-worshippers. OK-he didn’t quite say that, but he did say that Third World Anglicans were holding back the ascendence of his liberal theology in the Anglican Communion were “closer to animism,” and he does a bad job hiding the sneer and contempt when he speaks of Third World theological conservatism.

there is an old joke about left-wing catholic libertarian theology in the context of protestant evangelical conversion of the indigenous peoples of central and south america-the church chose the people, but the people didn’t choose the church.

as steve sailer (and others, including ed miller of the university of new orelands) have hinted at-sexual selection by the female might operate differently in various races.

rushton’s rule applies to male size-black men are larger, with deeper voices and more well defined muscle tone, asian men are smaller and have more subcutaneous fat. whites in the middle. different strokes as they say.

if women universally like larger men, why are some groups smaller? as we’ve talked about, adaptive issues come into play (pygmies don’t have access to concentrated protein sources often), but there could be some more complex sexual selection going on.

what i’m hinting at is the cads vs. dads hypothesis-women like different type of men for different reasons, cads to get them pregnant, and dads to raise those very kids. usually it doesn’t work out that way, but in the ideal world for women….

didn’t you mean to say the one semi-ugly girl in the room “b” :)?

please let us remember proximate causes-humans don’t have sex to have babies, they have babies because they enjoy sex. what proximate causes women have to encourage procreation might be channeled in other places in our modern society. human nature doesn’t change-context does.

signapore, sweden and france are just some of the countries that give incentives to women to have children.

“adivasis” or tribals tend to inhabit marginal land and exist outside the caste system. they eat meat, even beef, and engage in animal sacrifice as part of their animistic religion. only one tribe in india speaks an indo-european language are the bhils. most tribal people live in the south and center as well as the east, speak dravidian, tibeto-burman and munda languages. most dalits are probably of tribal origin, but have been hinduized-a good analogy would be a “mestizo” that speaks spanish but is genetically indigenous.

i think that sexual revolution favors winners rather than losers. back when everyone was expected to get married young-people would find SOMEONE to hook up with, even if it wasn’t their ideal. this meant that more men found mates and weren’t single. remember, there are about 104 males born for every 100 females in the US, and the ratio doesn’t tip toward women until after 28. of those women under 28, a large number prefer men older, and quite often marry/date them. so men in their 20s, who generally don’t have the same shot with older women, even if inclined, as younger women have with older men (generally-especially in the context of a long term relationship resulting in marriage), are a bit screwed by the math.

that being said, as steve sailer notes about men favoring polygamy, every man considers himself a winner, and so accepts this high stakes game, because they figure they’d snag a “Hottie” rather than a “She’s OK.”

religious people routinely think that the non-religious are going to burn in hell and idiots for denying the obvious. non-religious people think religious people are idiots only think in terms of the obvious. which is the ruder position? 🙂

humans ain’t fruitflies-so true….

diana, that’s what steve says too. pretty common sense. the thing is, most guys still have a reflex to favor it because they don’t think they’ll be losers.

i read that W is 5’9

in fact, i heard this as a contrast with gore, who was 6ish, shorter candidates tend to lose. i was neutral in that race, but tended to support bush becaues he’s my height 🙂

yes, but the orthodox union of america favors stems cell research.

well-i’m assuming that godless is taking about human populations that are “mixed” already out there. yeah, it doesn’t map 1:1-but the theoretical principle is established, and we can go from there….

i went back and looked at the second quote-it seems and i think they mean *algorithim*, not *logarithm* anyone tell me what they would mean by logarithms in the context of this article? it seems studying logarithms isn’t that big now that we don’t use log tables.

yes, it has risen. see:
http://www.gazette.cofe.anglican.org/articles/02_07_page5.html

but you fail to mention the low base-it’s still 2.85 million on Christmas! out of a nation of 60 million, of which, the majority are nominally historically associated with the church.

also, my assertion that it was a “black thing” was based on the book THE NEXT CHRISTENDOM by religious scholar philip jenkins.
http://www.kokogiak.com/amazon/detpage.asp?sb=s&asin=0195146166&field-keywords=The+Next+Christendom&schMod=books&type=
(it jives with personal experience, but i’m not british, so i can’t appeal to anecdote too much)

where di you read this? godless would love to hear that 🙂 i don’t know if it’s true, but tamil brahmins are something like 3/4 of the indian nuclear program (even kalam, a muslim, is a muslim tamil)

there are rumors that she’s half chinese or eskimo, but i’ve read several interviews where she dispells those rumors-here parent are icelandic. her schoolmates made fun of her and called her “china girl” though.

yes, wade did. the second link is about the second study.

richard, see http://gnxp.blogspot.com/2002_12_01_gnxp_archive.html#90033435

william calvin of university of washington, who’s written several books on human evolution has let slip in a recent book ideas that echo rushton rather closely.

the exact quote page 41 of A BRIAN FOR SEASONS:

“…The Asians and Europeans, besides being less rich in genetic variations that they can tap, seem to have specialized somewhat toward one end of the parental-care spectrum, concentrating on relatively fewer offspring (their biology results in having fewer fraternal twins) who grow up more slowly (somewhat slower growth rates, later puberty, and so forth”

richard-

you haven’t said anything about the twinning rates. this is biology. twinning is important in biology as an indication of litter size-the most fertile women in history (the german women that won prizes in WW II for instance) had a tendency toward twins.

and yes, family size is a multifactorial trait-but you simply disregard there could be average biological differences a priori. calvin wasn’t making a 1:1 correspondence, simply indicating the plausibility of different adaptive strategies based on a biological fact.

btw richard, would you support banning abortion for non-white races because white supremacists support abortion rights for them? oh wait, that’s *different*….

well-i think there are people who don’t name call. charlie murtaugh hasn’t throw mud our way in a while-though he’s not convinced by HBD-when orwin was in the blogosphere, he tended to keep his cool even when godless lost it a few times. some of the other blogs that link to me are pretty non-conservative in orientation-or have different points of intersection (Raving Atheist for instance) with this blog besides HBD.

civility is not some extreme demand-it is given every day. but i think it tends to be people that read us more. i won’t deny that on first blush the stuff mooted on GENE EXPRESSION is shocking, because we say in public what many ppl say in private.

no one need fear the truth. it’s always going to be there no matter how much we debate.

1) i’m a libertarian who might be called conservative because i oppose multiculturalism because of its attack on liberal principles (free speech, sexual equality, freedom to criticize religion, etc.)-so the pioneer’s fund’s politics aren’t mine. that being said-so what if i overlap with some of the pioneer fund’s ideas? as conservatives like to point out-planned parenthood and maggie sanger have eugenic origins, but how pissed do liberals when when pro-lifers try to smear them by assocation?

i thought you didn’t read blogs anymore? and don’t tell me you didn’t make it clear you thought orwin was an unenumrate idiot? (more than you think most people are 🙂

richard-human biodiversity doesn’t have any specific political implications. after all, most pioneer fund recipients would agree that east asians are more intelligent on average (some, like ed miller are married to them)-but none of them thing that asians should rule whites. similarly, if whites are on average more intelligent than blacks, it doesn’t follow that they should rule blacks.

i oppose apartheid and minority rule. on the other hand-we must also ask some questions from a utilitarian perspective-and smoke on what first principles are inviolable. for me, equality before the law is inviolable.

“racial profiling” is an explosive topic-and i haven’t made up my mind on it. believe that some racial profiling for airlines might be warranted (which would stop people that look like me) because the cost if we don’t is so high. on the other hand, stopping young black males for drug offenses i don’t accept simply because the trade-off between civil liberties and enforcing a law that is disputable in its effectiveness is too high.

jody, that presumes that there is only one adaptation for any given environmental context. for instance, swedes and mongols live in cold climates (one more humid than the other of course), but swedes are larger and rangier. mongols simply changed their proportions to conserve body heat and reduce exposure (shorter arms and legs, longer torso)-while swedes got larger so that volume:surface area ratio increased.

just a thought.

also-sexual selection probably plays a large role in differentiating between races.

“ancestry” is a social construct. as are probabilities that organ transplant searches will yield an immune system match in any given group-a social construct.

yeah mr. bennet, i admit it, black people are animals! so are white people, yellow people, brown people, and all the mixes. we are all animals.

“What in the world is an “Asian”, and how do you know what the average IQ of one of these fictional things might be? Are North Indians included among them, or are they considered European like all other Aryans?”

the research in question tends to use NE Asians as “Asians,” Africans as “blacks,” and Europeans was “whites,” since these three groups are most separated. intermediary groups muddle the issues.

the ainu aren’t caucasoid-genetic studies cluster them with other asians (you seem to be referencing old morphological studies). the polynesians are similar to the malay people with some melanesian mtDNA.

“Similarly, Semitic Jews and Semitic Arabs belong to the same “race”, but everybody knows the Jews are smarter. Why is that? “

they don’t belong to the same race. askenazi jews are semitic via their male line, but their mtDNA indicates a small sample from the local populations (generally only in the first generation). additionally, jews are a small population that’s gone through bottlenecks and founder effect-so they won’t necessarily be like their ancestors 3,000 years back (and the Cohen’s can be traced that fair through the y-chromosome). some would argue that the jewish strategy (ashkenazi) implies a eugenic strategy-the masses had few children while the wealthy and rabbinical families had many (this from hungarian records).

“The point, dear ones, is that genetic variation within so-called “races” is more than that between races, so the whole exercise in stereotyping is BS.”

yes-but it is the AVERAGES that matter-the races different on average, but there is plenty of overlap. and these averages matter. west africans tend to have faster twitch muscles, only a small difference ON AVERAGE between west africans and the rest, but this matters because world class sprinters are faster only by a small degree from the pack. it is the tails of the bell curve that can really be effected, even if two populations have only a small difference in on average, that would still mean a big difference when you go to the antipodes of the spectrum. so yes, 90% of the variation is between individuals, but that 10% between population matters too-it matters in things that you might consider mundane like organ transplants, but i don’t, because i’m from an ethnic minority that is screwed by the current system so skewed toward your race my white brother-saying race is a “social construct” is costless in your case, but i sure as hell care.

now, onto to UCSB-well yeah, cosmides et. al. promote evolutionary psychology, the study of SIMILARITIES, they are philosophically opposed to delving too much into differences (commonalities aren’t only political easier to study, they are probably practically easier to research since everyone is part of the sample). i don’t buy all of rushton’s theoretical framework (he sounds like a group evolutionist to me)-but his data is there. what convinced me is twinning rates-how can you fake that? and i know enough devlepmental biology and zoology to know that differential twinning rates indicate something.

and jensen and eysenck aren’t as disreputable ans you present. both of them started out as environmentalists, but later came to a synthetic position between environment and heredity.

lots of scientists like wilson, ridley, pinker etc. might not come out say there are race differences in things like intelligence, but they all grant IT IS POSSIBLE [1]. that is what bothers when people try to exclude these discussions are beyond the pale.

[1] Ulricha Segerstale says that Wilson did say it was possible in DEFENDERS OF THE TRUTH, Pinker says it is possible (though he doesn’t accept it himself) in BLANK SLATE, and Ridley says it is possible, and seemed to hint likely, in GENOME.

there aren’t species Oleg, only “kinds.”
[wink to those in the know :)]

only europeans have cystic fibrosis & only europeans have Rh- (concentrated among the basques, but found among others).

one thing on rushton’s theories-i’m skeptical of his climatic theory. the r vs. K is more persuasive, though i’m not totally convinced. but as i’ve said before-to me, there is the FACT of human differences, vs. the theories that explain it. i made the joke about “kinds” because arguing with richard remainds me of my arguments with creationists-richard throws a bunch of questions, i try to answer as best as i can, and then a whole batch of new questions get thrown at me.

what is the most plausible explaination for the cross-cultural poor performance of some racial groups on g-loaded tests? in my reading of the situation, race is the most parsimonious explaination-races are subdivied by religion, history and social systems, but when race “x” scores low or race “x” scores high on g-loaded tests (or any phenotype) i think we should be open to positing a biological underpinning to this trait.

similarly-though on a greater and more well developed scale, many people accept that evolution has occured. BUT, they are still more unsure of the exact mechanism.

roger clegg in this NRO article:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/commentprint050100b.html
says the black out-of-wedlock rate in 1940 was 20%, but you say 5% in 1950. what’s up with that? (my memory is closer to clegg)

respond to the rest later….

HAHAHA! way to jason, that was hilarious.

ever hear of the old game 6-degrees-of-adnan-khosogi? all international scandals can be linked to the saudi arms dealer.

now richard wants to make 1-degree-of-gene-expression, you link, therefore-u-r-racist 🙂

whatever.

i was going to get to that jason-richard seems to think if he tears down rushton, we are totally without any support or base. he thinks if rushton is wrong about one (or more) things he is totally discredited. richards attitude to how science must work reminds me of another richard-richard lewontin and his attacks on e.o. wilson’s “sloppiness” (wilson preferred to think he had a fertile mind).

complicated questions require long answers, which i don’t have time for right now.

but, the first commentor is on to something, and this point has been made. but note that islam also puts man at the apex of creation, no liberalism. similarly, though the brahmins are on top via karma, in hinduism man is the highest creature you can be reincarnated as, no liberalism.

as for steve’s questions-i’m going to have a few posts on that topic-your question about protestantism, and whether it is more “rational” is a very interesting one, especially in light of the fact that Protestants tend to reject The Way of Aquinas, finding god through reason rather than faith alone.

the overrepresentation is less prominent if you take into account the fact that more blacks are young.

does he mean the draft to include women?

diana, where does the 6% number come from for the gulf war? the NRO article says 13.1% were of the correct age group during Vietnam, are you using half of that?

i guess you are strictly correct, but we should say that men are taking the risks, since that is the biggest factor.

1) mahathir mohammed got shit on for suggesting in a book in the early 1970s that chinese might be genetically superior (he’s a malay). asians don’t have problems talking about certain topics

2) as far as this blog being biased against blacks, it is somewhat americo-centric, so we focus on the black-white issue. hispanics are racially diverse, so it is hard to generalize, and asians also are racially diverse and their numbers small. many social programs, if not aimed at blacks, effect them disproportionately. many social taboos and codes exist because of america’s black-white relationship. i myself belong to a group that doesn’t score too hot on IQ tests-but don’t have a problem talking about it, in the end, i am an individual, as we’ve mentioned as individuals, race isn’t as important. i’d like to invite someone who is black to offer their perspective, but david is probably the only one that would offer to post. the few black posters i’ve had on all my blogs are so offended that they don’t even think they should address the question at hand. i can understand why, because what i suggest is highly disturbing for someone with black racial consciousness. i don’t know what we can do about that

3) except not report the truth. but the fact is that genetic science is advancing, computers are getting to be better biological data processes, and we will start finding various SNPs (single nulceotide polymorphisms) that differentiate individuals, and the frequencies of various polymorphisms will probably different between human populations. pressuming an open scientific culture-complex interactions of genotype & phenotype will be easier to elucidate in OUR lifetimes, within the next 10-20 years.

4) evil has no IQ. i’ve said this ad nauseum. i think that the tendency toward crime of low IQ people has more to do with a combination of impulsive behavior of RELATIVE economic deprivation than anything else-not some inner devil motivating them 🙂 the high IQ types will commit white collar crimes where social recriminations will be lower. there have probably between as many high IQ dictators (mugabe) as low IQ ones (idi amin). the low IQ ones probably cause more short term damage, but the high IQ ones probably last a lot longer

a few years ago-i read an article about H1-B holders with marketing degrees from india being thrown into technical positions despite their protests.

you don’t live around mormons-they have some weird quasi-amish-sounding names. or just strange names. merlin olsen and dale murphy were both mormon.

well-mahathir has been in power for 20 years. someone “dissing” his own race’s capacities in such a manner would not be allowed to take power in many other areas. the difference is yes, there are people hostile to the idea of race differences, but the topic itself is NOT taboo. i don’t expect everyone to buy HBD, but it would be nice if bringing it up is not evidence for racist inclinations (and yes, most people who talk about it today are racialists, in part because those that aren’t don’t want to be branded as racialists, so those who talk about it are racialists-and round & round it goes)

so what if his points are antithetical? anyway, have a broad perspective of views on HBD-jason is probably the least convinced, while some of us (jason & myself) perhaps the most. BUT-what we all agree is that the topic should be mooted. it was kind of an interesting article-that was the point i’m trying to make.

also-i will work on an FAQ at some point. godless had so many things going on he never got around to it.

e-mail me with FAQ questions at

i wasn’t offended. problem with the internet is tone is hard to impart-i tend to take very little seriously in real life.

in any case-duster seems to be saying that race is sociologically constructed, so it is real, while it is biologically insignificant, but there are things it is significant in (forensic evidence).

the problem with race is that it is statistical and fuzzy, so your point of reference effects criteria. for instance, the term “caucasoid” always uses europeans as the point of reference, so indians are “dark-skinned caucosoids,” but generally whites are not called “light-skinned caucasoids” (i’ve had people tell me “indians are just white people who’s skin was darkened by thousands of years in the tropics,” to which i humorously respond, “white people are just indians who’s skins were bleached by lack of sun during the ice age”-this gets a laugh, but people get what i’m trying to say). that being said, most people would not deny that genetically indians are probably closer to europeans than than they are to say the japanese (this depends on the group of indians you use of course-especially true for high-caste or indians from the north & west of india, less so for low-caste and those from the south and east).

jason soon = house culturalist
jason malloy = follower of the dark side 🙂

mahathir’s book THE MALAY DILEMMA was banned in the early 1970s-presumably by the UMNO leadership at the time.

“Scientists who deal with HBD in a genuine sense are much less obsessed with African American IQ scores, criminal offenses, and penis sizes than you guys are, and they aren’t at all likely to take African Americans as proxies for native Africans.”

i don’t think this is true about not using african-americans as proxies, for this reason: the two assertions contradict each other. phenotypes we tend to mention have some adaptive significance, and might have been effected by selective sampling during the slave-trading era. on the other hand, most scientists that study neutral parts of the genome-“junk DNA” & mtDNA are looking at stuff that has no adaptive significance, and might not even code for anything-so even if you take the biggest & strongest africans, it should be an appropiate sample of mtDNA lineages (there is some evidence now that mtDNA might have some adaptive value-but this is a recent development). for instance, i’m pretty sure caan & wilson in their original OUT OF AFRICA paper used african american women as proxies for africans, because they had no reason to think that this group would not have the reasonable sample of mtDNA lineages-especially as most of the white-black gene flow historically had gone from white males into the black population, so the mtDNA would not be effected.

the reason cavalli-sforza et. al look at junk DNA is because it is a stable record of genetic change over eons, not effected by local adaptations. they are forming cladistic trees-something that might be skewed by convergent evolution caused by changes in gene frequencies if those genes code for something obviously effected by the environment (as an example, say you find genes that effect height, the dinka and bosnians are tall people, so if you used those genes, that wouldn’t work because it would reflect adaptation, on the other hand, looking at mtDNA works because the different lineages are only dependent on the mutational clock).

uh, what’s your point richard? mitochondria performs the same function no matter race. yes, all lineages go back to “mitochondrial eve.” the general way the Out-Of-Africa theory is validated is that africans have many lineages as compared to eurasians, who are all part of one lineage (comparison)-which has several africans in it from any random sample. this implies that eurasians are a subset, or derivative, of the african population. similarly, the eurasian mtDNA lineages bifurcate between east asians and europeans-and in europe there are as many seven lineages (7 daughters of even & all). utlimately, all mtDNA is a bit different-because it is building up mutations over the generations (at a constant rate). africa has the longest period of homo sapiens development, so it has the richest and most varied mtDNA. other populations tend to be formed via bottlenecks, founder effect, and genetic sampling, *ergo* they display far less diversity.

you would think-and in fact, there are large phenotypic variations within africa. but there is a difference between nuclear DNA and mtDNA-the latter will mutate at a constant rate, and traditionally has been viewed as immune to adaptation (though not genetic drifit & bottleneck). on the other hand, nuclear DNA codes for many phenotypes, so it is effect by selective pressures. in other words, yes, there is diversity-the nilotic peoples can process lactase far better than those of west africa. on the other hand, remember that most of africa’s people originate in the Bantu expansion about 1-3 thousand years ago (starting around ibo-land and ending to the east of cape).

knew of a girl who’s parents were hippies who’s name was lakisha-she was ash-blonde valley girl type, caused lots of confusions if ppl didn’t know what she looked like.

*darwin’s wolves* are always on the prowl for good breeding stock-but pair-bonding & monogamy? nahhh….

did american feminism arise as a result of family break-down and the unwinding of community bonds? or did it precipitate these events? or are the two related in a correlative manner with mass industrialized economies?

also-i do not believe that close-knit families always imply male domination. the african-african diaspora model of female-centered homes illustrates that you can have lots of children and young ages and distribute the care between generations and amongst relatives and still be a “strong woman.”

also-the case in morocco is interesting, because these women were agitating against freedoms that they themselves would no doubt never use. it’s not like their own husbands had restricted rights, it simply equalized the theoretical ability to divorce….

(on a humorous aside-a few months ago, i was listening to an interview with a somali muslim feminist who was declaring that islam was the most pro-woman religion out there. the sympathetic NPR interview seemed pleased with the direction of the conversation, when the somali woman stated, “islam is a religion of the mind,” and the NPR interviewer said, “but isn’t islam a religion of the heart as well?”

i’ll be honest, nonesense fluffy statements about religion irritate me. so i declared that yes, “islam is a religion of the mind & heart, and the ass, and the foot, and the tongue and buttock….”

now, that was fatwa-worthy 🙂
)

more properly, polygamy benifits a few men and screws over many other men. women are just units of exchange and tokens of status.

you were joking about associating lysenko with the pioneer fund or genetics right? tell me you were joking….

polygamy is still part of sephardic and mizhrai judaism-they just need to get married in morocco or yemen, they can’t marry-up in israel (i know this from a yemeni jewish guy trolling around for a second wife [on top of his primary]-his plan was take her to morocco, get married, then go to israel)

godless wants a spot in academia-so a GNXP stain would be fatal. don’t be surprised if you hear from “godless” years from now-i know his “real” identity, and he’s one sharp fellow (obviously). all he needs is a little luck to go his way….

also, david is from german wisconsin, the german part isn’t that amazing (the russian is a different thing….). especially doing chemistry 🙂 i was a lazy ass and never tried to pick it up since i could manage the beilstein fine without knowing the details-but back in the old dayz it was required-my dad knows german because University of Islamabad(!) required it for chemistry majors.

well-they don’t know your real name anyhow unless you choose to give it out….

and at least they know you ‘think outside the box’-something perhaps more rewarded in business than academe? (sad if true….)

intelligence is a survival trait to SOME EXTENT. if it was so important, than groups like cockroaches wouldn’t last for hundreds of millions of years. higher intelligence people in fact often have issues like schizophrenia and depression. Matt Ridley in GENOME notes that teenage boys with high IQs have many times the rate of immune system dysfunctions than those with normal IQs.

so the question is-what is the average of suicide? if pre-modern humans in their wild state were dead by 30ish, and most suicides happen after 30, it would be less important. of course, the spread of the tendency for suicide might be a side-effect of traits that are selected for in agricultural and literate societies….

unfortunately, i think the insult thing is more correlative or indicatory, more than causative. in other words, you trade insults within your family or ethnic group because you are close-you aren’t family or within an ethnic group because you trade insults. though perhaps it might have that psychological effect. don’t know.

more like fjord fever 🙂

light vs. dark racism have been common in the black (and just about any community aside from northern europeans probably)-i found it strange that they would reenforce it even though they talk about it having a negative effect on the protoganist. mixed messages? or would they figure no one would notice.

someone that’s read A NATURAL HISTORY OF RAPE could probably comment on this (anyone?).
here is a link to the book….

http://www.kokogiak.com/amazon/detpage.asp?sb=s&asin=0262201259&field-keywords=natural+history+of+rape&schMod=books&type=

yeah, but what is swarthy to northern europeans is pretty light to other groups-so i think “dark” often meant hair color, rather than skin.