Great article.

Rather than “parasitic”, I think our society is better symbolised by the Goya painting “Saturn Eating His Children”.

The Capitalists have seen big money available in selling sin to suckers, so they have pedalled every kind of pornographic violent trash, every senseless trinket and food which causes disease. Who cares if they destroy the dignity and spirit of whole sections of society, there is a buck to be made and they will make it.

The politicians we have had over the last 40 odd years are probably a curse from God, they are so disgusting and spineless. They also have seen sin as a vote winner, all the biggest issues we should face they have ignored. The demographic disaster of the west, the millions of aborted babies, the debasement of our currency, the destruction of our industry and the moral decay of the people abetted and encouraged by their policies.

These are the same maniacal progressives who led us into two world wars, they are simply wearing a suit now instead of a uniform. When will people realise that in rejecting God the faith they withdraw is given to something or someone else, usually liars and monsters.

We brought it on ourselves, chugging thickshakes, smoking joints, watching garbage, eating crap and amusing ourselves to death. One day we will wake and realise the world looks on with contempt and hatred at our corrupt ways. Then the fat bloated depraved citizens of the western democracies might find the party has ended. One wonders how far our leaders will go to maintain their bleeding of the people. No doubt they consider themselves saints, the viciously evil always justify their evil ways.

Men will stop defending women soon, you can see that in Germany and Sweden, and it is the same everywhere. Likewise many men are simply refusing to have families, they are losing faith in women.

As more women, and their allies gay and very liberal men move into positions of authority within government and more men are increasingly locked out, they will find it harder and harder to raise families and find reliable women to marry.

The progressives and women are relying on technology and some fantasy that they will take over the world with their liberal ideas. They are stupid and depraved. Wars are won by heart and virtue and sacrifice and that is fading quickly in the west. In fact America would never win a war without its air superiority, and that is now fading fast with missile technology able to destroy any bird within minutes.

Any society run by women and effeminate men will not stand, it never has in history, and never will because men will simply not fight for it. They have been told many lies, but generally the average man can see when he is being treated like dirt.

Air power has been decisive. I think it is going to fail now unless you are talking missiles.

If the Russian air defences are as good as they claim to be, the birds will be blown out of the sky and the carriers will be sunk.

If air defence improves it may well be that armies and tanks will be as important as they ever were in the past.

I do think America, Australia and UK are extremely vulnerable to underwater missile technology that was in the news last year, that looks impossible to defend against.

I’m a little surprised people are so clueless about the left on this site including PCR.

It’s all standard history, the old left died during the cold war when it became apparent what a murdering police state the Soviet Union was.

Another left was born, the new left based not on workers who had failed to rise up, but on identities, mainly feminism. Feminism was immediately an enormous revolution, it was considered unquestionably good for everyone and quickly became a topic beyond discussion. With the support of feminists, and the moral prestige the left accrued with it, there were massive changes, the sexual revolution, abortion, pornography, smashed families, single moms, drugs, a permanent underclass on welfare without jobs and the rise of double income families.

So in answer to your question Mr Roberts, where is the left, it became us, the left has ruled culturally and politically for the last 50 years, many, probably most in the republican party are leftists, and on this site, nearly everyone are leftists. That’s why when the Republicans get in power nothing changes.

But I hear you object, I’m not a leftist, I don’t support welfare, or big government. No most of you libertarian types don’t support helping anyone else it’s true, but many of you do support screwing your neighbours wife, or divorcing an old wife and getting a new one, or living with your girlfriend without marrying her, or aborting an unwanted child, or watching violent pornographic entertainment, or men having sex with men, etc. etc. etc.

You see, you are all leftists, the left won every culture war that was possible, they have carried all before them.

How did they do it? Feminism, as I said feminism was considered an impeachable good and feminists when joined with promiscuous powerful men who simply want lots of sex and the ability to get rid of old wives, and the gay community make a pretty powerful coalition and still are today.

The Republicans are no different, there is probably as much vice on their side of politics as in the Democrats. They just want to keep the poor poorer. In that sense they are doing the work of leftists, because they no longer really care about the poor, they care about gays, and abortion and women. That’s all, they want the whole world to accept their revolution.

In fact the new left has entrenched poverty, because feminism and the sexual revolution created such massive social dislocation and decay, massive welfare was the only way to ameliorate the damage, and when women destroyed the employment prospects of many poor white men whose jobs began to be taken by women, the only solution was more welfare, and when the birthrate began to collapse then immigration was needed with still more welfare.

The Democrats would love to get rid of this welfare burden, but they are deathly afraid,not just in the US but in all the advanced democracies, that in getting rid of the welfare to those that have been left behind they would undo their whole revolution.

And I have met very few Republicans or Libertarians or true Conservatives or even Religious who want to undo the revolution which occurred in the 60’s, they just object to how much it is costing.

The truth is there has never been a society where women stopped having children and entered the workforce. It is not really understood, because discussion of these changes is simply non existent in the MSM and rare on the internet. A society were women work, and marry men who work and have few children, while other families exist on welfare might be unworkable, because it will slowly go broke because of the massive welfare needed to support it, and because there is a lack of babies.

But their is no discussion of all this because ultimately we are all cultural lefts including PCR and probably Ron Unz and all of the bloggers, who enjoy the freedom to sin without judgement, they want the right to sleep with anyone and divorce anyone and and do what they please, which is what the left is really about all along, the right to rebel against God and his laws.

And just to add to my previous comment.

The reason the left are not rising up at the injustice of the US provoking Russia in the Ukraine and supporting Islamic extremists and using them to overthrow governments, is because they want their revolution to spread throughout the world, as indeed do most Republicans.

The leftist revolution of the 60’s has been so successful that just about everyone will go to war for the “American way of life”, which is actually exactly the same as the “British way of life” and the “Australian way of life”, in fact all the first world democracies who have all had the same revolution.

All the western democracies think their baby aborting, sexually decadent rapacious lifestyle based on gross indulgence is good not only for them, but for the whole world. They will be willing to fight to the death for this.

In fact the extreme leftist ideologically driven types such as Obama, and Hillary and Merkel and probably May in Great Britain find the new conservative values of Russian and Putin so thoroughly objectionable it is probably the reason they are creating such mayhem in the world and provoking Russia so much. Vlad should never have banned those gay marches in Moscow, that was sure to enrage people like Obama far more than bombing the crap out of Islamist in Georgia.

In the west we are in the grip of a collective delusion, what should really be discussed is whether the west has fallen into evil ways because of the revolution in the 60’s and no longer really deserves to be the moral leaders of the world. It is part of the delusion on the left, which basically means all of us, that morality is beside the point, we should just be stronger than them. This is a big, big mistake.

Feminism is one cause of all this.

It’s hard enough to have kids and raise a family without a whole set of new problems dealing with the sensitivities of aggrieved women.

Many men now have seen what happened with their fathers, they did not like being brought up by only their mom and are very cautious about having children. In fact the birth rate of European races is appalling low, if you took out all the young men who impregnate tramps angling for welfare it would be even lower. Immigration is the only thing which holds the western democracies together.

When you see a thirty something white girl working in a professional job, there is a good chance she will never have even one child.

In addition people have children when they can afford it. In the west they have constantly prodded credit growth through low interest rates much of which has gone into stock and real estate speculation. The price of living has gone through the roof. To feed and house a family has become impossible on a single low income wage, and difficult even for the better off.

A massive financial crisis and the destruction of the currency is probably the only thing that could reverse the birthrate because immigration would stop and the left wing mad men who rule us would have to face the real cause of our problems.

Genetic engineering.

Two trees: one of knowledge of good and evil, one of life.

Man seized knowledge of good and evil in the garden and was therefore denied the “tree of life” lest they become like “gods”.

Man now is on the cusp of seizing the “tree of life”, and when that happens it will bring on the apocalypse.

I read this on the net in a series of articles, always struck me as extraordinary, and convincing. Would not be surprised if it was true.

You’re the only smart guy here.

Of course it is all about “life”, and its extension. The aim is to grasp the “tree of life”, particularly for the powerful this idea is intoxicating beyond all belief. They don’t really have that much respect for intelligence. You don’t have to be smart to enjoy physical love, or fine wine or power over others. Arguably intelligence is more likely to interfere with the pleasures of life, and why bother to seek its extension if not to enjoy those pleasures.

I suspect they fantasise about being another Rome with all the power over others the rich had there, only now age and death will not rob them of their pleasure.

You can see why some think that if the “tree of life”, which was closed to them in Eden, is grasped by man then the Apocalypse will be imminent to stop men becoming “Gods”.

Looking back over history the inhumanity and cruelty of men to men is beyond belief. One theme is very clear throughout that history, how men can regard other men as less than human, or at least less human than themselves and then justify any atrocity against them, we do it ourselves to unborn babies. How cruel could men be to others if they knew they would never die particularly with all the powers of science behind them.

The extension of “intelligence” is a little dream for little men, moral cowards who blame the problems of the world on intelligence. We fantasise we can fix the world and gain riches and power by being smarter when any fool can see the problems of the world lie in the heart of man.

The strange thing is that very smart people often make very poor parents. All their obsessing over this and that gives little time for children, if they have any at all.

A society with many very smart people would probably have many emotionally stunted and self obsessed loners as children and have trouble reproducing itself.

That has probably already happened in the west where the birthrate of aristocrats and technocrats has been reduced for centuries. This is to some degree anecdotal, although I have read that the birth rate of wealthy Anglicans was far below Catholics.

In fact I have also read that Eugenics was not and never really was about raising intelligence or purifying the race, etc etc etc, (mouth open and gagging)….

…but about destroying the fecundity of the lower classes by attacking their offspring as sub human and reinforcing social and political control over them by the wealthy.

Unfortunately for the super intelligent Hitler with his average intelligence destroyed Eugenics as an idea in the west. Never mind say the super intelligent we can destroy the family with the sexual revolution and abortion, I prefer sexual decadence to uniforms and medals anyway.

I kind of like this site, probably because it is so hard to define it’s politics, and it talks about some mildly taboo subjects as well.

It seems to be full of some pretty decent bloggers, some on the left and some on the right, some religious some non religious, hard to pigeon hole, which is great.

Then there are the libertarian eugenicist types who think they are God because they run a business or have a science degree, they give the impression they have left religion behind and would happily neuter half the population thinking this would lead to utopia. It does not seem enough for them that we kill millions of unborn babies many from the poor. They give the impression they would like to stop those people reproducing that they define as less worthy or intelligent than themselves.

Dr Kill I just think these attitudes could lead to very evil outcomes as it has in the past.

Concerning Russia.

The real problem in the eyes of Hillary and Obama is that Russia has become more religious, seeks to strengthen family relationships and is trying to limit homosexual activity in Russia.

For raving ideological maniacs like H and O who do not even blink when it’s revealed that human body parts are being harvested from unborn children for scientific experimentation the new conservatism of Russia is a crime far worse than supporting Syria and Iran.

They will provoke Russia into major conflict over gay pride marches in Moscow!!!!!

I would recommend an article in First Things by Peter Hitchens who spent many years as a foreign correspondent in Soviet Russia.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2016/10/the-cold-war-is-over

“Family life, once begun, was precarious and fraught. Divorce had been made very easy by the family-hating Bolsheviks. One wedge-shaped Wedding Palace was known as “the Bermuda Triangle” because all the marriages contracted in it disappeared so quickly. I do not think I ever met a Soviet couple with two children who were full brothers and sisters. Invariably, it was a merger of two broken marriages into one new one”

Every thing is about the sexual revolution in the west, perpetuating this revolution and spreading it throughout the globe and destroying the great rival to political power which is Christianity.

That is why they now hate Russia.

Russia’s actions in Syria are destroying the reputation of the USA in the world.

Everywhere I go now I see commentary acknowledging that the USA is supporting the Islamic State through the Saudi’s or aid or pretending to fight them. The utterly abhorrent and cruel actions of the Islamic State have tainted the USA and all the western democracies; morally we are seen, quite rightly as little better than the barbarians who enslave and behead Christians.

Russia’s intervention has revealed all this, and now fearful of a confrontation the superpowers dance about each other in Syria, the US in particular seems to believe it can bring Russia to heel with sanctions and asymmetric pressure via Nato and Ukraine.

Obama and Power talk still as if their moral superiority is a given, but it is only now in the MSM journalists, those fearful of losing their job. In the blogs it is clear the fog has lifted, the USA is seen as corrupt and duplicitous.

Many many people in the west are still completely ignorant, they are watching their porn or sucking on lattes or thickshakes.

What will they do if Putin decides he has had enough?

Obama and Power and Hillary are idiots. The west is failing, it has put university student moronic radicals in charge and they are completely out of their depth. The universities have educated morons more interested in gender free bathrooms and killing unborn babies than understanding the world and the limits to their power, let alone understanding what it is to be a moral person.

We are in a terribly dangerous time, we are led by fools much like the aristocratic idiots who blundered into the Great War and sowed the seeds for World War 2.

“not-agreement-capable”

Probably not surprising given the US government runs things using “Rules for Radicals” as it’s guide, or perhaps Gramscian ideas about subverting the system from within.

Leaders in the past probably always lied as needed, but they were not Utopian idealists or globalists striving to remake the world into some Rousseauean or Marxian version of paradise. They quite literally see themselves as seers and prophets bringing their enlightened vision to the world. The trouble with such people is they feel justified in lying, they see their vision as a justification for their lies. To put it in other words, they are enlightened and therefore any lie is justified by their superiority as enlightened beings.

The truth is they are not enlightened, they are almost blind, their visions are absurdly narrow and completely unworkable and idiotic and bring only misery and destruction. That is why the whole western world is on the brink of financial and social destruction after only 50 years of revolution. We are in dramatic decline and we could not fight a war for survival without nuclear bombs, we would not know what to fight for! Obama might be willing to nuke the Russians over gay parades in Moscow, but I don’t think the “gays” will line up at the draft office, similarly I don’t see men fighting for women who only divorce them and steal their jobs.

But the real problem for all this is the “lies”, who was it who said the real reason for the lies was to humiliate everyone and shame them and thus make them corrupt and easily governed. I think there is truth in that, we all know “abortion” is killing an unborn infant, we all know that we have massive immigration because we do not have enough babies anymore, etc, etc.

Our society is now made up of a whole host of lies and deception which on the face of it are utterly absurd and yet we accept it because we have no choice, no choice politically, and increasingly no choice personally, just ask those bakers who don’t want to bake a cake for a gay couple wanting to marry!

It’s not surprising we are “not agreement capable”, because we have been conditioned to accept lies and deceptions in the name of social change for the last 50 years. Such a system does not provide heroes as leaders, rather we are more likely to get morally corrupt liars in suits.

A universal Christianity where “neither black nor white” are all equal in the eyes of God is probably the only hope here.

Utopian socialists think they can unite people, but on the evidence of the last 60 or so years they have whipped up black grievance to gain political power, and in the process have not really cared about the victims both black and white.

People in a state of grievance who believe they are unjustly treated lose hope and live in despair, this obviously leads to drug abuse, social decay, crime and violence. There is no doubt the black communities have higher levels of violent crime and drug abuse.

In fact Mike Whitney enforcing law and order particularly concerning drugs and violent crime is doing the black community a great service, it stops the criminals taking over. The left is to blame to a large degree for this crime and violence, instead of enforcing the law they undermine it, instead of encouraging black people to get on with their lives they nurture grievance and anger. Obama should take considerable responsibility here.

The absurdity of Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize really showed the hubris of the left, they really think they can get away with anything. They lie constantly and we the people are beaten down with lies.

“you must be kidding” should be replaced with “stop freaking lying to me”

Every time you hear of people divorcing, or aborting a child or watching porn or a host of other despicable actions in the world remember these are also based on lies we have been told in the past.

And in being forced to live with these lies we are now passive in the face of lies which might lead to nuclear war.

Feminism has created massive problems in the west, problems which are never mentioned in the MSN.

Not only did women’s widespread entry into the workforce create a permanent underclass of unemployed men but because women tend to marry up we now have widespread assortative mating. The result being we have double income families at one end of society and no income families at the other. This is so unjust and has caused a great deal of social decay in marriage and behaviour in those who can no longer afford to form families supported by a steady well paid job.

Many are now becoming aware that feminism is the main cause of the decline of births in the west, many women are too busy working, and as feminist influence has grown many women now opt to not have children at all. I read some fantastic statistic recently about aproximately 40% now of German women will never have children, we know the problems in Japan, etc. All of this has meant that there has had to be vast increases in immigration to sustain growth.

Both of these things the destruction of opportunity for working class men, and widespread immigration not to mention the chaos of the sexual revolution has meant the state has become a behemoth exercising vast expenditure and influence.

In fact if you agree that Feminism was the greatest revolution in the west in the last 60 years, it looks very much like the welfare state is expending vast amounts of money to support this revolution.

It’s really no surprise we are all going broke and increasingly indebted: business, individuals and gov’t.

Or it could get a lot worse.

What happened to the Kulaks in Russia, or the middle class Chinese in the Cultural Revolution in China, or the middle class in Cambodia, or indeed Christians now in the Middle East.

The left wing governments in the west will one day have a choice.

The could give up their cultural revolution, admit abortion, the sexual revolution, feminism, homosexuality, pornography, the politics of race and identity, etc, etc, were all wrong. They would have to destroy the welfare state. Finances would rapidly recover.

Do you really think they will ever do that? Cut off government money to those who vote for them. Never, they would not exist without the vote buying ensured by the welfare state and the massive grievance industry fed by left wing organisations and political parties.

No, the stories in St Johns Apocalypse are true, one day they will strive to destroy real money all together in order to allow their wealth to grow indefinitely and feed the grievance industry indefinitely with welfare. When that happens persecution and enslavement are not far behind.

They have managed to convince large populations throughout the world that killing their own unborn babies is fine, that destroying their family is fine, that adultery and all sorts of perverse activities are completely normal and morally ok, that men are basically evil and suppressed and persecuted women throughout history, that porn is a normal expression, etc.

Why would they stop there. They won’t, and they will descend to even greater evils.

“ISIS is a rag-tag bunch of 20-something amateur Rambos”

Yes but once they are entrenched in a modern city it takes massive destruction to dislodge them.

I think that is why Putin is drawing his own line in the sand.

He knows the American’s and Saudi’s have a long history of using murderous Islamic radicals to destabilise governments and does not want such a situation developing in Russia.

The elites of the west are of course disgustingly amoral in their use of Islamic groups but justify it by convincing themselves they are bringing freedom and liberty to all, in other words their vision of a liberal utopia which is ultimately going to be a gay massage parlour on every other corner and an abortionist on those corners left.

Therein lies a great danger for us all: men like Obama filled with their own virtue and unhesitatingly amoral, even evil in their action, meet a nationalist like Putin determined to head off disaster for his own country which has a long history of being misunderstood.

Meanwhile the world chugs another thickshake while our MSM studiously ignores the issues

The Americans are keen on supporting the abortion industry, the illicit drugs industry, the porn industry, the gay industry, etc. etc. That is the American way of life for the last 50 years.

Not surprisingly some like Duterte and Putin are over it.

What has this to do with Syria? The problem is that for the ideologically driven leaders of the left like Obama and Hillary such matters are of the utmost importance. They are literally provoking WW3 over gay parades in Moscow.

They have decided that Russia must change and are going after her via Libya, Iran, Syria and Ukraine. The actions of the American’s don’t make any sense otherwise. Why are they provoking chaos and war using Islamic militants? A pipeline! There are other places to run pipelines.

The Russians and Filipinos are getting a bit shirty, the American cultural war over the last decades has turned the third world into a seedy vice and crime ridden nightclub for the benefit of decadent American tourists. And don’t doubt that is is a large factor in American financial dominance, a corrupted nation is easy to bribe and control.

The explanation I offer for all this is not on the radar for many people. The social and sexual revolution has long become one of those unquestioned assumptions and falls into the category of unquestionable truth for people on both sides of politics.

It is the unquestioned assumptions concerning the morality of gay men and feminists and promiscuous sexual activity that people like Obama are willing to provoke WW3 over.

The funny thing is that the gay men or feminists will never fight the wars. They will use funny money and pay Islamist’s to do it. The American leaders of this generation are completely immoral.

It’s actually the last 50 years German Reader.

Our leaders have been corrupted by the sexual revolution, they are all now quite immoral.

Read the stuff about Trump on Zerohedge, it is something we have known for quite a while, rich powerful men can have whatever they want, women throw themselves at the powerful and they feel no reason to restrain themselves.

We are the shameless generation………….we feel no shame no matter the size of the indulgence or lie.

Read the “Obscured American” a woman has a child without a father. Women without thought destroy their own unborn babies. The media blatantly lie and distort not in the service of truth but for politics. Children are molested, etc, etc.

There is no end to the evil of this generation, and the only thing that is missing is voices raised in condemnation.

This won’t end here, the moral decline of the west is leading to destruction. The leaders we now get are the worst of men and women, not the best.

I think the Jewish conspiracy theories here are overplayed.

Why the hell would Jews be backing Islamic radical head-choppers!!! On their own border no less. The insane Islamist’s hate Israel and would happily bomb it into non existence.

If anything it looks like Obama is encouraging and supporting Islamic radicals in the Levant as part of a long range plan to destroy Israel.

I think it is the rise of the New Left from the sixties, the identity politics generation, those who fight for their gender, gayness or race. That is Obama and Hillary who see the whole world under their influence. They are driven by ideology and their actions even evil actions are justified by their quest to right the wrongs of the world in the name of their gender or race. They are atheists and hate religion because it oppressed their sexuality or race. The Jews are ultimately a religious race and so the Identity politics people loathe them much as they hate Christians.

The Jews aren’t like that, world domination has never been what they want, rather survival among nations much larger than themselves. They are a people apart and have learned to be duplicitous and scheming to play others against themselves.

But I see no advantage for Israel to have a nation next door run by insane Islamist’s lusting to destroy them.

“anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows that all these wars are perpetrated on behalf of Israel. Duh”

Why on earth would Israel want a nation of radical Islamic head-choppers right on their own border. Maybe there is something I don’t see here?

Isn’t far more likely that Obama is supporting Islamic radicals in Syria and Libya and Turkey and Iran so they will gang up and destroy Israel!!!!

Have you seen Obama with Netanyahu, they hate each other. Obama is no friend of religion and I suspect he views all religions as ways in which black people were oppressed.

The sixties radicals who have achieved power based on identity politics and sexual liberation loathe and hate religion with ideological passion because they see religion as having oppressed them as women or black men or gay men or sexual beings or whatever. The Jews are a religious race and therefore these sixties type radicals hate the Jews.

In their mind only the destruction of Jewishness and Christianity will free people from oppression, so why would they not be plotting to destroy Israel.

You mean the assassination of JFK?

I looked up the date, Aldous Huxley and CS Lewis died on the same day.

Interesting article about it here exploring various aspects of the three men:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/03/three-great-men-died-that-day-jfk-c-s-lewis-and-aldous-huxley.html

Not sure how JFK’s assassination bears on my comments?

Sheese this identity politics crap is garbage.

Everyone looks through the prism of their own hatreds whether it’s men, Jews, low brow, high brow, straight. What a joke so many of the comments are here.

I think there are at least 30 song lyrics written by Dylan through his career which are beyond the powers of any other songwriter of the last 50 years to emulate. And that would be a conservative estimate. In 500 years if we are still here people will be singing his music.

Clearly Dylan is unique, utterly himself. An artist of great power.

The Reformation was about the subordination of Christianity to the state, the breaking of the Catholic churches universal claims to rule men beyond politics. The City of God.

With Islam there has always been a closer union between state and religion. Mohammed was a political leader.

When the Reformers gutted and divided Christianity they destroyed it’s claim to truth and led to the slow rise of atheism and scepticism about religious belief.

This cancer is slowly destroying us.

All truth.

Satan is the father of lies and in the garden he tempted and corrupted with his first lies, “you will be like gods”. So it is at present, the liars among us tell us what we want to hear, and bit by bit they lead us into the dark.

It has been going on for ever, but now with the modern communications it has become incredibly powerful. But it still has not won, people still understand their lies and object.

Many on this site understand the idea of fiat currency and how money is simply created through credit by lowering interest rates. It has lead to massive inflation and property bubbles.

The same happens with man, they lie and invent ideas and blow us up with pride and pomposity and self importance, and this attitude alienates us from God.

That’s why people so easily accept the many evils in the western nations, abortion, porn and using third parties to wage war. The lies have filled them with pride makes them blind to their own sinful nation. And blind to their own sinful nature.

Nationalism is just another idol, like race.

They all lead to massive conflict between nations and peoples. WWI and WWII weren’t dreams, they happened because of Nationalism.

The modern left idea is that we will not have Nationalism, just people, individual identities free to be and do whatever they want. Unfortunately some people don’t care if they exploit others by lying to them and using them. Their view is if people are not smart enough to look after themselves then they deserve to be used and abused.

Remember the degraded life of Amanda that L. wrote about a few posts back, drugs, prostitution, family breakdown.

The modern lefty libertarian type just goes well that’s her problem, I can do drugs and prostitution and divorce without becoming that, why should I stop watching porn even if I know that the making of p0rn causes great suffering and exploitation.

In the end they deny evil and sin totally to justify their own choices in life no matter how much injustice and suffering they cause.

American negro’s are violent, just as whites would be if they had been whipped up by years of grievance mongering.

The truth is that left wing parties throughout the west have used grievance whether racial, or religious or gender based, or simple scaremongering over climate to seize power by promoting themselves as the party of fairness and equality.

It’s all a sham of course and it has created many victims.

White women have done ok, although most don’t have babies and have swapped a life of relative ease and meaning for an office job and no kids.

Black women have done very poorly although at least they have children, paid for by the state and often to multiple unemployed fathers.

Black men have done very poorly no one will hire them or marry them.

Meanwhile the left wing media promotes every sort of horrible sexual and illicit pathology like it is the essence of virtue and freedom.

Of course many of the poorest, especially blacks commit themselves to a life of illicit pleasure and drug abuse and often wind up in jail or dead.

White lefties simply throw a few coins their way and sleep well at night consoling themselves with the thought it will be worth it in the long run and if they are so dumb they cannot handle the freedom they deserve what they get.

White conservatives enjoying the same illicit pleasures their power, wealth and education allow, pretend it is something within black people themselves that is to blame, consoling themselves they are simply superior and deserve their wealth.

Blacks have a right to be angry.

It’s about time left and right owned up to the real problem which is a morally corrupt state which will not promote decency, nor reward it.

It’s wrong to claim black men are more prone to violence.

All men are capable of great violence when provoked or threatened.

The most dangerous men of all are little men with big ideas of some utopia or other, particularly if they have no faith in ultimate justice, ie God. They are capable of genocide on a vast scale. And they always sleep well at night because they think the sacrifice is worth it, they imagine they are really doing everyone a favour.

Ultimately such people are always tribal. Us the right and important, the overmen and the others lesser men, deserving of their fate.

If anyone should be blamed for the violence and social degradation in the black communities it is the white men and women who have destroyed their jobs and families, who allowed evil men to peddle drugs to their children, who exploit their anger for political gain.

Increasingly as the cracks in contemporary democratic states widen they are increasingly sucking the life out of poor white communities as well, the degradation and exploitation are growing.

Meanwhile double income white families with few kids and big houses wring their hands occasionally and mouth all the correct platitudes constantly. They never seem to connect the dots, that they both have well paying jobs, while at the other end of society millions of families are lucky to have any job at all, and even then it is impossible to raise a family on it.

The white middle class couple never seem to get that their liberal permissive morally corrupt utopia has been poison for poor whites and blacks. They titillate themselves with x rated movies, they make the movies, they rarely abort their children, they might take drugs but are smart enough and rich enough to handle it, they know all the theories and all the books. They wash their hands of the problems, our intentions are good they claim.

Meanwhile the poor have been ravaged and devastated for the last 50 years by their liberal utopia, their families are virtually non existent, drugs are everywhere. Their jobs in China.

Trump won well, but it still hinged on a few states.

If he does what he said he would do it will be a revolution.

I personally think the tipping point of left wing persuasion has been reached, from now on they will have to rely on brutal corruption to win. They will all be like the Clinton’s and Obama now.

The internet has changed everything, the MSM no longer has a monopoly on what options we can consider. The emperors nakedness is constantly being revealed by increasingly sophisticated bloggers. They make the MSM journalists look like lying milksop servants to leftwing parties.

Personally I hope Trump does everything he says he will do. It would be great to have a leader who actually speaks the truth as they see it and acts on it.

The left wing politicians keep their truths very secret and seem generally to live a lie as well as speak them.

Still if Trump turns out to be a liar as well……. it could be very bad.

I think he’s right the old system deserves to die. If anyone thinks it has died they are kidding themselves.

When the people of the west cast off the chains of sexual perversion and lust and madness, and say no to the evils government has been encouraging for 50 years to corrupt them, on that day, only on that day will the current system and and all its evil perpetrators fall.

When people overthrow abortion and let innocent children grow inside their mothers womb, when they reject violent pornographic entertainment, the temptations of adultery and promiscuity, and drug abuse, on that day the evil bastards who have built their political power on corrupting others will fall.

No free man, no independent free man can exist without morality, and everyone should recognise by now that no free and fair society can allow governments to spend taxpayers dollars propping up and supporting evil by unfair and unjust law making.

Our current system sustains itself by corrupting people in every way and destroying their lives and their dignity. It then occupies itself stealing from the people either by inflation or forcing them into debt or simply regulating them into penury, as well of course as excessive taxation.

It ain’t over till people say we have hit the bottom.

You remind me of guys who watch porn. When reminded that there are women who are horribly exploited, abused and spiritually destroyed in the making of porn, the porn watcher simply says “it was their choice”.

They wash their hands and go on watching ignoring the fact that in consuming such a product they perpetuate misery.

Your attitudes above seems to perpetuate misery. Is it really worth it?

It is really the only honest thing we can do in life.

When we turn away from this it is always a lie and eventually will lead to despair and terror.

Not irony. It is men who wanted the freedom, always men, like de sade and so many others. They liberated women because they wanted their freedom, without wives, without children, without guilt. Especially without guilt!

But not “everyman”, just the powerful, as Donald says, “grab them anywhere” if you’re rich they let you.

Poor men and plain women have lost everything with the sexual revolution and the welfare state that is needed to sustain it. Some are lucky and may find love and dignity in life

Rich men consider themselves the height of virtue and culture. Rich men have many women and many wives. They never consider the damage they have done.

The man doth protest his powerlessness too much methinks.

As for misery on my part. None really, but I have a family which gives a different perspective.

Is it worth it? I think so, in the end our promiscuity and porn culture does incredible damage to our dignity as human beings. Think Amanda that Linh wrote about a few months back. Her life happens because others think their pleasure is worth more than her suffering.

You get a lot right John Pilger.

The problem is us, the whole western world.

We have become sybarites, pleasure lovers. They are the constituency of all the left wing parties in the west and the greatest supporters of the welfare state.

Capitalism has little to do with it, they simply have adapted to the decadence.

That is the problem with Trump, the sybarites are panicking worrying that their party might end. All the abortion loving feminists and homosexual men and women dedicated to their own pleasures, and promiscuous money loving men, all the masses of men and women on welfare who have decided they don’t need partners,or the wealthy couples who have decided they don’t need children, all of them, they have been in denial. They think this party can go on forever with endless printed funny money.

Obama is their defender, they don’t mind a bit of hero worship, endless lies or death by drone so long as their right to screw anything, abort inconvenient conceptions and dispense with old wives or steal someone else’s is preserved.

The problem is the west John, but it is a moral corruption that is the problem, and instead of fighting against this the governments of the last 60 years have encouraged it.

Trump’s tweets are an act of genius.

He has rocked the whole liberal establishment by stating his own opinions and speaking directly to those who have been ignored for years.

This is revolutionary, Trump could never have survived a Presidential run in the past, he would have been unable to fight back, no one would be able to hear him.

Who would have thought that a President could ignore and ridicule major media players in an age where careers are destroyed by the media because they disagree with gay marriage.

This bypassing of the media could lead anywhere, perhaps the wall of lies and immorality erected by the sybarites, atheists and corrupt will be breached in the coming years by men who are willing to state the truth.

Saker in many ways the “people” were in far better shape in Russia than the “people” in the USA and the rest of the west.

In Russia people were drenched in propaganda and religion was excluded, their lives were controlled but essentially not corrupted.

In the west it is a different matter. The “people” have been utterly corrupted with a cultural war which has sought to destroy their virtue and goodness in every way.

Rather than propaganda the wise and powerful in the west have been far more subtle, they have drenched their lives in violence and porn. They have turned women against their men with feminism. They have destroyed their families with welfare.They have destroyed their faith with TV and film and filled their head with garbage. They have sold their children drugs and made them the prey of evil men. They have destroyed their livelihoods and destroyed their independence with taxes and regulation.

In short the powerful and wise have been particularly concerned to destroy all virtue in the poorer classes of society. It is hard for overweight drug addicted people with multiple children from multiple marriages who have jobs serving others and living in violent crime ridden communities to feel any power to fight back.

God came to earth as a poor man and child in Jesus to shame the wise and powerful. Herod reacted by trying to kill the children before they could grow.

That is what our wise and powerful do now, they are seeking to destroy and warp all those that might be a threat to their wealth. It is why they are so aghast at Trump.

When God comes back to earth, it will not be as a righteous poor man, the rich are destroying them. Instead God will come back in anger. Watch out!

I don’t think the “people” can win here, but many are now realizing what they are up against. Trump is a rich man who has had everything except virtue and meaning in his life. He is looking to be remembered and for salvation.

The wise and powerful will simply redouble their efforts to ensure the communities or the “people” are flooded with drugs and porn, that men and women are turned against each other, that crime is unpunished and the communities are flooded with graffiti, violent men, thieves, and that children are taken away and marriages destroyed. They will try to restrict or warp their information. They have overlooked that in recent times.

LOL Jazzman, you got more replies than you bargained for.

Some are very interesting too, and I will offer another, which I am not sure will satisfy you, but here goes.

You are right about “free will”, everything hangs on that. Most deep thinking atheists that I have discussed these issues with reject free will. More on that later.

For the purposes of your argument let’s accept free will exists and God allowed Hitler to exercise his and therefore God bears some guilt for the holocaust. It is a pretty strong argument it is true. Augustine’s argument against it is pretty strong too.

I would fill the argument out a bit by pointing out in Christian theology God is completely good, and has free will himself, and giving us free will was an act of goodness, a gift from God, a kind of emulation of his powers in us.

Unlike God though, who is completely good, we have the capacity for evil, we can use our free will to do evil .

Because God is only capable of doing good, even by giving us the capacity to exercise our free will and do evil there must be perfect judgement of all actions by God. This is the crux or the matter. Free will means ultimate justice.

In other words God is not only totally good, but must also be totally just. Justice must reign if we have free will and there is a God. Every man will pay his dues for his sins in this life or after death, as Jesus says everyone will pay to the “last penny”.

You, me and Hitler.

Now lets look at Hitler, an exceptionally evil man to be sure, but is the guilt totally his. Did he act alone: the ideas about Nationalism, Eugenics, Racial based mysticism, Anti semitism were also shared by large numbers of people all over the world, not just in Germany. The horrors and atrocities of war were committed by both sides, didn’t many western countries refuse to help the Jews.

My point is Hitler was a curse, and his sins were in large part our own sins, we, our society brought forth Hitler and we reaped the whirlwind of our own sins in the form of Hitler who became the scourge which nearly destroyed us all.

Why should God interfere, we bring all this ourselves with our own actions, and ultimately we will all pay not just Hitler.

For Christians no doubt watching porn is evil, and the woman in the porn movie is engaged in evil also. But who is most evil Jazzman, the woman and man who might have been told by intellectuals and feminists that porn is simply another way of living no better or worse than other ways. What about the director, or the cameraman, or the money man financing it. How about the politicians who allow laws which encourage the production of porn. My bet is the actress and man watching are not as guilty in the grand scheme of things than the others. Not simple questions.

Why should God intervene particularly when people have the chance to repent and reject evil and move towards God and save their soul and find goodness and life. A very important point for whenever there is evil there is also the chance for the prodigal son to find his way home to the father and all heaven rejoices as it says in the gospels. Goodness comes out of evil. Great goodness often comes from evil times.

Now I will take up the “free will” issue in regard to atheism I mentioned earlier.

I think there is good reason to suspect that a universe with free will but no universal moral code provided by God would quickly degenerate into the most incredible evil and horror. Many of the deeper thinking atheists I think understand this and attempt to deny free will altogether. I think that is why materialism has such appeal to atheists, the moral questions around free will make their heads explode, they prefer to edit it from the story.

Take this example I will give you:

A secret policeman in the former Soviet Union is ordered to take a family, parents and children and have them shipped to a prison camp where some or all are bound to suffer and die.

He knows that they are innocent of any crime.

He also knows if he refuses to do what he is being ordered to do the result could be terrible for himself.

The policeman is an atheist.

What is the moral thing for him to do?

I hope you have read all this Jazzman.

I am no theologian so I am sure plenty will disagree with me, but you asked me for my thoughts on the Hitler problem and unfortunately the answer needed to be a little lengthy.

Thanks Pat the Rat

Hi Authentic Jazzman

On Saker’s previous post(The Color Revolution) you asked a question of me concerning Hitler:

“The Hitler puzzle :
So if God, as according to you God-believing folks “knows” the future, and If God created everything and everybody including Hitler, this means then that God also “Knew” that Hitler , in the future, would be directly and indirectly responsible murders of ca sixty million humans………”

Basically your question is why God is not reponsible for the holocaust if he had the power to change it.

Anyone interested can read your full question there.

I wrote an answer but you did not reply, most likely you just forgot about it.

Since this subject has come up in this article and my post seems pertinent and you have commented on this article about your beliefs, I thought I would re-post it and see if you would reply this time.

(Pat the Rat from The Saker, Color Revolution January 29, 2017 at 7:44 am GMT)

You are right about “free will”, everything hangs on that. Most deep thinking atheists that I have discussed these issues with reject free will. More on that later.

For the purposes of your argument let’s accept free will exists and God allowed Hitler to exercise his and therefore God bears some guilt for the holocaust. It is a pretty strong argument it is true. Augustine’s argument against it is pretty strong too.

I would fill the argument out a bit by pointing out in Christian theology God is completely good, and has free will himself, and giving us free will was an act of goodness, a gift from God, a kind of emulation of his powers in us.

Unlike God though, who is completely good, we have the capacity for evil, we can use our free will to do evil .

Because God is only capable of doing good, even by giving us the capacity to exercise our free will and do evil there must be perfect judgement of all actions by God. This is the crux or the matter. Free will means ultimate justice.

In other words God is not only totally good, but must also be totally just Justice must reign if we have free will and there is a God. Every man will pay his dues for his sins in this life or after death, as Jesus says everyone will pay to the “last penny”.

You, me and Hitler.

Now lets look at Hitler, an exceptionally evil man to be sure, but is the guilt totally his. Did he act alone: the ideas about Nationalism, Eugenics, Racial based mysticism, Anti semitism were also shared by large numbers of people all over the world, not just in Germany. The horrors and atrocities of war were committed by both sides, didn’t many western countries refuse to help the Jews.

My point is Hitler was a curse, and his sins were in large part our own sins, we, our society brought forth Hitler and we reaped the whirlwind of our own sins in the form of Hitler who became the scourge which nearly destroyed us all.

Why should God interfere, we bring all this ourselves with our own actions, and ultimately we will all pay not just Hitler.

For Christians no doubt watching porn is evil, and the woman in the porn movie is engaged in evil also. But who is most evil Jazzman, the woman and man who might have been told by intellectuals and feminists that porn is simply another way of living no better or worse than other ways. What about the director, or the cameraman, or the money man financing it. How about the politicians who allow laws which encourage the production of porn. My bet is the actress and man watching are not as guilty in the grand scheme of things than the others. Not simple questions.

Why should God intervene particularly when people have the chance to repent and reject evil and move towards God and save their soul and find goodness and life. A very important point for whenever there is evil there is also the chance for the prodigal son to find his way home to the father and all heaven rejoices as it says in the gospels. Goodness comes out of evil. Great goodness often comes from evil times.

Now I will take up the “free will” issue in regard to atheism I mentioned earlier.

I think there is good reason to suspect that a universe with free will but no universal moral code provided by God would quickly degenerate into the most incredible evil and horror. Many of the deeper thinking atheists I think understand this and attempt to deny free will altogether. I think that is why materialism has such appeal to atheists, the moral questions around free will make their heads explode, they prefer to edit it from the story.

Take this example I will give you:

A secret policeman in the former Soviet Union is ordered to take a family, parents and children and have them shipped to a prison camp where some or all are bound to suffer and die.

He knows that they are innocent of any crime.

He also knows if he refuses to do what he is being ordered to do the result could be terrible for himself.

The policeman is an atheist.

What is the moral thing for him to do?

I hope you have read all this Jazzman.

I am no theologian so I am sure plenty will disagree with me, but you asked me for my thoughts on the Hitler problem and unfortunately the answer needed to be a little lengthy.

Thanks Pat the Rat

What many don’t understand Anon is this:

Go made man free as you state to do both good and evil.

But if God is good, there must be a universal judgement and reckoning, a righting of wrongs.

If God is wholly good then a universal justice must be a reality to balance out all the evil men do in this life which is never punished.

Free will implies universal justice.

Free will was given to us as an act of love and goodness and universal justice must exist also as an act of love and goodness.

Science and discovery first accelerated in the west in Christian universities and monasteries.

My own view is because Christianity is a notoriously fuzzy religion, given to multiple interpretations and resists institutionalization by earthly powers.

One of them showed him a Roman coin, and he asked them whose head and inscription were on it. They answered, “Caesar’s,” and he responded: “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s”

Free will, free thought, worship, delight in the world and knowledge for its own sake, contemplation of the good and making objects which eased the burdens of men who had rejected slavery. These are characteristics of the Christian west, and it was a perfect cradle for science.

Hello Jazzman.

I knew you would find my post abhorrent. So thanks for replying

I don’t think it is so hard to reconcile the idea that God is completely good with the creation of men who have the will to do evil.

There is no doubt that free will is a greater good than lack of free will.

Two fathers have a son. One locks him up to keep him safe. The other gives him freedom to explore and accepts the risks.

Who is morally superior? I think quite clearly the second father.

On God not knowing evil.

Moral evil is not just about free will, but knowledge. Many animals have a limited free will but their knowledge is so restrained they cannot be said to be evil in any sense we understand it.

Likewise with God in the opposite way, God sees vastly more than we see, just as we see far more than animals. And so I believe he would recognize evil. I think he refrains from all evil and allows evil because of seeing further and stopping it would lead to far greater evils. We usually face exactly the same dilemma throughout our life from work to child-rearing.

I said earlier I knew you would find my post abhorrent.

Paul wrote in Corinthians: “And I did this so that your faith should not depend on human philosophy but on the power of God”

The Christian view of the world as I understand it is essentially moral and sees morality as hierarchical, from solid matter, to animals, to man, to angels, to God. A growing moral awareness.

Atheism seems to be an attempt to exclude this moral view from man and really in crude terms an attempt to take us back to being animals. You would know as well as me that many who reject God insist we are only animals.

This is a crude characterization of course as many atheists are law abiding citizens so they do not reject morality altogether. But they do limit their vision and knowledge to man and government and trust the moral choices made by government as the most far sighted that can be made.

But what happens when governments go bad and become evil, what happens to the atheist then? That was the point of my question to you about the Soviet policeman, which you did not answer.

Thanks

You are writing a lot of perceptive articles about women Linh.

The one about Amanda was truly terrible, but the others are almost as enlightening.

Years ago, I don’t know now where I read it, this writer described Christian faith in the west being dealt a mortal blow when women began to leave the church. For centuries they had been the backbone.

Today talking to a woman at work, she declared she would have only one baby, it isn’t me she said. Childbirth had been disturbing.

I know many women now will not have children, in Germany it is something close to half ethnically German women will have no children.

What about this verse from Kipling

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “The Wages of Sin is Death.”
1919

we have become crazy

Reading your thoughts about being God and stuff and creating little overlapping universes and so on has a name Jazzman. It’s called self deification.

Caligula and Tiberius I think had good lines in self-deification.

The main trouble besides the most obvious ones of losing touch with reality and others around you, is that believing yourself to be God is completely contrary to what God is understood to be. An individual may consider themselves God, but they will not live for ever, nor do they have power that God as creator has.

It is so contradictory that essentially you are wishing yourself to be nothing. It’s a death wish Jazzman.

Some people may live that way it’s true, but I don’t think they really believe it. They more hold the belief because they can do whatever they want without guilt or reflection. It is a convenience more than a belief.

Not sure if you really think you are God Jazzman, I would be surprised if you do. I would still think it is a posture, a kind of label of convenience by which one absolves oneself of guilt and the self reflection of the conscience.

“The juxtaposition of intelligence and stupidity in people is something I can’t get my head around”

Nothing wrong with that statement, so long as you realize it applies to all of us, including yourself.

As for abortion and homosexuality, it is pretty easy to make the case that they do an immense amount of harm in society.

On Christianity, whether you believe or not, any fair assessment of Christian history and culture will show it has been overwhelmingly a force in the west for justice.

Most don’t have much of an idea about the left.

Marxism pretty much did not survive the cold war except with older academic types.

But Marxism and Socialism are pretty much the political wing of atheism and have always been concerned more with freedom from morality for themselves than anything else. That is why sexual revolutions always accompanied actual revolutions.

The revolution in the 60’s was moral and atheist in character. It was called the left because it was essentially atheist. Ultimately it was a kind of political bonding between immoral men, feminists and homosexuals. Most were open to anything because of the disillusionment of two world wars.

That’s it really, this political union has colored and dominated our politics for the last 50 odd years and has led to incredible evils.

Business has little part in it, except that business wants to make money and the bacchanalian misery unleashed has been very good for business. So many families atomized, oh yes very good for business.

Will it end, not soon, they have so much power now through the mass media. But eventually yes, because Feminists like to kill babies, immoral men like also to kill babies so they don’t have to pay for them and homosexuals simply don’t care. This kind of decadence kills civilizations very quickly.

In earlier revolutions the social turmoil unleashed killed the revolution stone dead, all those single mothers without support. Now of course they have learnt to print money and borrow and lower interest rates to keep the welfare state going. All so some feminists can bath in fantasies of female dominance and immoral men can chase any hole they can get.

That is all anyone really needs to know about the left since WW2.

Mike Whitney your analysis is shallow.

But then all analysis by commentators is shallow on this subject.

What is not understood is the social revolution of the 60’s is practically the only thing that Lefties seek to preserve, primarily because they are philosophically atheists.

You’re right Mike, they don’t care about immigrants. They don’t care about the working class, other countries, foreign policy, trade or finance either.

Leftwing power, informational power and influence, not raw votes, is built on a number of pillars, based on the notion of identities, feminists, homosexuals, permissive men and various racial identities.

The welfare state and mass immigration support these changes.

Without the welfare state necessary institutions like single motherhood, abortion, homosexuality, the whole destructive smear of decadence would not survive. Decadence means mass expenditure by the state to ameliorate all the damage.

Without the immigration there would be no social changes, women would once more have to have babies and families would have to be supported.

The left understands all this. The proof is the absolute silence on any of these issues in media discussion.

Any discussion on these subjects sends them into apoplectic rage.

They fear trump, by attacking immigration discussion will be raised on the subject of demography ie. where at the new babies to come from.

This is ultimately why they despise and fear trump.

Patrick Cockburn when the USA and Britain were stronger in the past, nothing Trump has said would shock people at all. In fact much of what Trump has said would be considered common sense back when the US ruled without dispute.

Somewhat paradoxical don’t you think Patrick.

Trump should be considered a sign the US is recovering her confidence and purpose, as Brexit should be seen as a sign Britain is recovering her confidence.

The left and right despise Trump, that is the most obvious thing about his election. Why is the question.

All this talk of immigration.

They fear he might start making them have families and make babies!

Shock, horror. They are in terror about being forced to become decent human beings again.

Mass immigration and the social revolution are the real signs that the USA and Britain were in decline, they are now beginning to recover, and Trump is a sign of that recovery.

Interesting to speculate why they score so high on verbal.

I’ve often thought it is exposure to the Torah at a young age, both the stories and the language.

But maybe the most dominant factor might be at the very heart of Jewishness, the story of a chosen people who are persecuted through the ages by all races. Jewish people come early to deep reflection about the world born of being the “other”, who survives not by force of arms but by understanding.

The Torah itself is like an instruction manual on the failings of humanity. The stories still astonish across the ages although many now are unfamiliar with them.

Who could ever forget Abraham bargaining with the Lord over the fate Sodom, “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? ………Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”.

A familiarity with these stories over many years in an ancient language may very well have a powerful effect on verbal intelligence scores.

On the other hand we in the west are feeding our children semi pornographic violent moving pictures! Wonder what the result of that might be?

I see all the worrying whites are out again raving on about intelligence.

In case anyone hadn’t noticed we live in a meritocracy and all smartest guys in the room have been making the rules for quite some time. They all have CV’s as long as their lying Pinocchio noses and that is saying something.

If the Chinese are so smart why do they butcher billions of their own unborn children, why are they turning their country into a pollution filled nightmare, why do they build cities no one lives in. The Chinese may be smart, but they are also terrified of what the guy above will do to them. Their pagan society like all pagan societies is characterized by vicious cruelty to their fellow man.

In the west the smartest guys in the room were all socialists. Lakes, rivers, oceans of blood and bodies have followed these smartest guys.

The trouble is all the smartest guys in the room are like the Grinch, they have hearts 4 sizes too small!

Unfortunately the enemies of the Catholic and Orthodox church are succeeding.
Protestantism was always a rebellion rooted in hatred of Roman Catholicism. Islam itself may have been influenced by Arianism which rejects the divinity of Christ. Both wish to destroy traditional Christianity.
So look back over recent history, you will find all the great Protestant nations are sympathetic to Islam, even supporting Islamic radicalism with arms and military support.
These nations England, USA and Germany don’t seem to mind at all about the murder of Christians, in fact those Protestants who have morphed into radical atheists I suspect think it is a great idea.
It has been 500 hundred years of pounding by the great Northern Protestant nations at the foundations of the traditional Christian churches. I don’t think they care if their evil twin Islam strikes the final blow at Rome.
Perhaps Pat you should consider these ideas before reflecting on the murder of Christians in the Middle East.
Certainly some explanation is needed as to why the great powers and their leaders seem so unmoved by all this persecution of Christians. I have read of no explanation anywhere in the MSM or on other online blogs as to why there is a conspiracy of silence around this widespread murder and persecution.
The greatest defender of Christians in the east was probably a strong Christian Europe who would extract vengeance on Islam for attacks on Orthodox Christians. A secular Europe lead by Protestants like the Lutheran pastors daughter Merkel offers no protection, just silence and platitudes.
These are unfashionable ideas I know, but sometimes truth becomes unfashionable and unmentionable.

It fits fine.
Historical narratives don’t flow in straight lines.
I don’t think the Roman church would approve of the sacking of Constantinople. But it is not a state with secular authority and has limited power to intervene. It is primarily a spiritual authority. At times of course the Roman church becomes involved in matters of state such as during the time of the Crusades. This I think is unavoidable at times.

But if you are interested in Church and State, then perhaps you should consider that Luther subjugated the church to the state, recommending that nobles should control the church. Basically religion became a tool of the state. Luther was then implicated in the Peasants Rebellion supporting the state as it slaughtered 100, 000 peasants. Over in England the multiple murderer Henry based on Luther’s writings started his own church and promptly destroyed all the monasteries of England and handed the land to his nobles. The two largest established Protestant churches no longer follow Jesus, they follow fallen men like Henry and Luther.
They have something in common here with Islam and Mohammed. He also was responsible for murder and his church also follows him and his writings and is also bound inextricably with the state.
I don’t think there is any doubt, that Protestantism has led to a massive growth in the power of states and that many people rather than worshiping God have over time become virulent atheists whose faith is based on worship of the state and hatred of traditional Christianity.
All those states that have rejected Christianity the most have been steeped in the most incredible amounts of blood and death, in the case of the Soviets and Nazi’s slaughtering millions in the most brutal heartless way imaginable. These states believed totally in the subjugation of the Churches to state authority just as Luther did. Coincidentally anyone who is even a little familiar with the history of Islam will know that it too has been steeped in incredible amounts of blood and suffering as it raided neighboring countries for slaves.

Thanks Talha for your reply.

I do understand that history is messy and rarely flows straight.
I also understand that a house divided cannot stand. But I think ignoring the division is not helping the house to stand, if anything we seem to be collapsing quicker.
After 500 years of the Reformation in Europe though I think we are able to discern some broad themes.
I outlined some of these in a post to Bliss below. Feel free to comment if you want.

Thanks

Thanks Talha

I don’t have many problems with what you write.

On suppressing peoples opinion it is true of course. And yet consider Moore’s Utopia. Free thought was allowed with reservations. Consider Luther prior to the peasants revolt. Free conscience was the ideal,only when freedom was grasped by peasants did Luther perhaps realize that free thought for nobles largely depended on the servitude of peasants. (Incidentally the powerful still struggle with this, how they can be free to live their life without any restraint, while restraining the peasants from the same freedoms. They have pretty much decided it is safer to corrupt the peasants beyond all reason.)

I don’t claim to be scholar, but even to me it seems there is an emphasis on conscience and free choice in Christian thought as you would expect from a religion which aspires to conversion by word.

The problem of course is that states enforced these restrictions particularly in Spain and Italy because there the dangers from Islam, were more acute, particularly in Spain were a large Jewish population had the opportunity to collude in opposition to the Catholic state. The northern states were insulated.

It’s true though Catholic’s favor restricting thought to a degree, perhaps they realized the powerful would use such freedoms to exploit the poor, and the poor would fight back causing much bloodshed and suffering. If that is so they would have been correct given the violent history of the last 500 years.

Thanks Talha

“The current level of separation of church and state in the West”

Like anything there are shades. But the fact that Luther in his writings specifically made the reformed church subservient to the German nobles, or consider the French revolution, it insisted on the right to approve church appointments. What of the evil Henry, he simply took the monasteries by force to break Catholic independence. How about modern Italy, where the Papacy had no home for a number of years. It insisted on a separate state within a state before it would finalize any agreement.

All based on one simple sentence “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, Gods what is God’s”.

Jesus set up the universal Catholic church on Peter the rock in Rome. It is so plainly evident, that the Catholic church has believed this as unassailable truth through the ages and sought to maintain distance from the powerful. In contrast Luther and the Anglicans gave their independence away and threw themselves down like dogs before swine.

In truth Talha, the very existence of the reformed churches depends on the survival of Rome. If the independent Catholic church fell, it’s moral authority would fall, and the reformed churches would be altered in a short space of time beyond all recognition. Evil would flourish to a greater extent than now which is really saying something.

Thanks Talha

On slavery Talha
Most of my information comes from two books, “For the Glory of God” by revisionist socioligist turned historian Rodney Stark and “In Defence of Faith” by the Jewish writer David Brog who came to the defence of Christianity during the years of The New Atheists. Two really fascinating books based in history which discuss slavery in a Christian context. David Brog’s book is not so well known as the first which is a terrible shame because it excellent.

One of the clearest indications about slavery and the Catholic Church concerns again the Reformation. After this the strength of the church was greatly diminished and slavery the worst types in particular made a comeback in Northern Europe, not Europe itself but its colonies where the type of slavery was chattel slavery, where an owner had almost total ownership including children and their very life, incredibly brutal and evil.

In Southern European colonies in South America slavery was practiced by the Spanish landowners but opposed by the catholic church who ameliorated the institution. Slaves could marry, their children were their own, they had Sunday free from work, they could earn their freedom.

The Catholic church opposed slavery but post Reformation all Christian churches were greatly weakened. It would take Wilberforce to destroy slavery again at its heart, England. But incidentally slavery through these centuries even after the Reformation never occurred in Europe, except for the one example you gave, concerning Saracens.

The example you gave concerning slavery is completely atypical in that it relates to Saracens, Muslims. The reason it was allowed to enslave them was in retaliation because so many Europeans were being kidnapped and enslaved by Islam into the worst form of slavery, chattel slavery. All those stories of harems and eunuchs were true, Islam for centuries on a very large scale in India and Africa kidnapped by force for slaves, probably in the millions. I am pretty sure only Saracens caught slaving could be so reduced, there was no slave market as such in Southern Europe.

During these centuries Islam made very few technological innovations which is true of all slaving societies which have little need to innovate, as manual labor is undertaken by slaves.

In contrast in Europe slavery was virtually abolished by the fifth or sixth century, and thereafter Europeans relied on technology to ease manual labor. A string of amazing technological innovations thereafter propelled Europe far beyond any other country. One of the reasons for this was clearly the end of slavery.

It was the Catholic church which abolished slavery in Europe an incredible achievement for civilization and lessening human cruelty and suffering in the world. With the minor exception of Saracens who were enslaving Europeans.

Thanks Talha

Hi Talha

Fantastic post. Hat tip to your historical knowledge.

People of the past felt that religion was the most important thing in their lives, it was the cornerstone of their identity. They didn’t have the same qualms as we do about enforcing religious edicts through the power of the state.

I understand that. And thinking about that issue has informed my thoughts about the Reformation and the present as I tried to make plain in one of my previous posts.

My point perhaps not clearly enough made is that there is a tension between enforcing uniformity and the ideal of free thought in Christianity which may not be present in other religions or states. The evidence for that is everywhere in their art, learning and political history and of course Luther himself who made the cornerstone of all his rebellion freedom of thought. The deadly consequences soon became apparent in the Peasants Rebellion. This single piece of history, large history informs all western history to the present day, as we constantly grapple with freedom of thought to discern truth and the chaos from bad ideas.

I am arguing clearly for Christianity as being exceptional in this regard, as bringing something new into the world. Prior to this men were either powerful or weak, the strong were better, and enforced themselves on the weak in many ways. This was their right due to their strength. Slavery was a natural part of this system.

Jesus changed this, every man now was equal in God’s eyes and all had their own salvation according to their choices in life. Even the very writings of Jesus are parables rich with symbolism and multiple meanings. Men chose their path, it was not forced upon them. The church opposed slavery in part based on these ideas, and it had to balance these ideas in the temporal matters of state.

Perhaps based on it’s own history of Paganism and the multiple sects which flared constantly in the Christian world it was cautious about free thinking. Arianism almost overthrew the church. It has been suggested that Islam itself was partly inspired by Arianism. The Cathars had to be put down with great force and death.

These points have often been used to condemn the Roman Church and label it repressive and evil and yet as the peasants revolt showed and many other instances in modern history the state has far more capacity for brutality and cruelty in enforcing its ideas. The Catholic church if any thing modifies this brutality based on the teachings of Jesus, particularly the emphasis on individual salvation.

Again I would say this is a tension implicit in Christianity itself and for better or worse it has led to the triumph and horrors of Christian European history itself.

Thanks

Hi Talha

There was no chattel slavery sanctioned by Islam.

You quote Ronald Segal. This is a quote from the Guardian review of his book:

Zanzibar was a black Belsen, a clearing house of shackled humanity, where the stench of death was masked by the cloves on which the island’s Omani emirs built a great trading empire.
Without a nascent industrial complex to feed, many of the men were castrated for domestic service or drafted into slave armies that emptied the lands around the great lakes of their peoples. One in 10, by some estimates, survived the trek from the interior. By the mid-19th century, when east African slave magnates – many of them the free sons of Arab slavers and their black concubines – ran out of infidels and animists to enslave, they, and the expanding black Islamic empires that supplied them, circumvented the scruples set out in the Koran and carried off their own on the flimsiest of criminal pretexts.
Slaves were the luxury goods the Islamic world seemed unable to wean itself off, despite hectoring from a self-righteous west that had embraced emancipation just as mechanisation had rendered slavery obsolete. Like horses and gold, slaves conferred status, and the most opulent households had thousands. When he died in 1870, one Arab official of the black state of Bornu on the shores of Lake Chad had several thousand slaves to complement his stable of 1,000 stallions.

He might argue that it is not strictly Chattel Slavery, but whatever it was was incredibly brutal. I suppose it is easy to be magnanimous when you have over 1000 slaves in your household and all the men are eunuchs.

You should try not to mince words here Talha, this type of slavery still continues in the Muslim world today, the man with 1000 slaves existed in the 19th century. How do you think such slaves were kept in line Talha, a glass of milk at night and pretty words. It was and must have been a brutal police state encompassing cruelty beyond description as powerful slaves oppressed the weak. For centuries. And not just Africa. The Sub-Continent was their other source of slaves. The men were immediately castrated and many simply died on route from blood loss. The suffering Talha.

The Catholic church ended that and deserved the credit for it.

The examples you give of slaving in Southern Europe do not hold water. It is one thing to use history to discern truth and another to use history to defend your current political views, no matter how well meaning they may be.

If widespread slavery was happening in Europe then there would be evidence. Christianity under the Catholic church has left the most amazing trail of primary and cultural evidence in history. Images of slaves do not appear. In other countries slaves become part of the economy, where is the evidence for that in Europe as a whole.

What I believe you are doing here is confusing two things. Outlaw slavers who were Christian or Jewish who kidnapped slaves to sell to Islam for profit. A problem Europe has always had. These groups essentially outlaws were beyond the reach of state power basically operating beyond its jurisprudence. It would be no surprise if the state allowed the operators to continue basically judging it was beyond their powers to stop. The same happens in our world in multiple ways even thought states have grown immeasurably in power since the Middle Ages. The second is of course that those Saracens or Pagans from Africa caught slaving could be enslaved themselves as a form of retaliation against their enslaving of Europeans.

I agree that the abolition of slavery was at likely 50% predicated on the fact that the Industrial Revolution made the owning of human slaves simply obsolete

This is putting the cart before the horse. The first European industrial revolution took place in the Middle Ages and was caused by the need to replace manpower because slaves were no longer available.

A few quotes from Jean Gimpel (1918–1996) was a French historian and medievalist…. In 1987 he was a founding vice-president of the Society for the History of Mediaeval Technology and Science, the British affiliate of AVISTA and the Association de Villard de Honnecourt.
The Middle Ages was one of the great inventive eras of mankind. It should be known as the first industrial revolution of Europe….
The medieval period witnessed one of the more rapid advances in the introduction of machinery in European history. This could not be accomplished without the effective taming of energy. The most common method was the mill – primarily water but also wind. These mills would grind corn, crush olives, tan leather, make paper, etc. While the Romans utilized the mill, it was not nearly to the extent utilized in these later periods. The relationship is inverse to the use of slaves in the economy – the increasing use of the mill corresponded with the drastic reduction of slavery during the Middle Ages.
Monasteries built in countries separated by thousands of miles – Portugal, Sweden, Scotland, Hungary – all had very similar waterpowered systems within almost universally similar plans for the monasteries themselves…. In certain ways the discipline imposed by Saint Bernard on his monks – the rigid timetable, the impossibility of deviating from the Rule without facing punishment – brings to mind the work regulations that Henry Ford imposed on his assembly lines.

It is wrong to suggest technology reduced slavery, it is the other way around and again the Catholic Church deserves full credit for this.

Thanks

Hi Talha

A further thought on this issue of slavery.

Slaves were often used for sexual purposes by their masters, not often mentioned or considered by scholars who tend to steer away from this subject.

Is there a relationship between the repeated attempts to free up sexual relations between the sexes in the west during various revolutions and sects and the lack of slaves being available to use for this purpose?

It is an interesting question to ask since we are still living through the latest attempt to make sex easily available for the powerful which has simply turned the west upside down and seems to be leading to a steep decline in our civilization.

Thanks Talha for your interesting and respectful posts. Much appreciated.

‘But you think I should not. Why?’

Because the primary evidence gives a completely different story compared to the documentary you saw.
The gospels are primary evidence written by people who saw the events in good faith. They are full of the most amazing detail. Sure there are some inconsistencies as you would expect of testimonies written at different times, by different people, under differing levels of persecution with differing purposes and audiences in mind. They are incredibility consistent when factors such as these are considered.
Consider how absurd are claims that Jesus was invented. Fifteen hundred years before the first novel the gospel writers poor men, invented Jesus, invented all the stories, the Sermon on the mount, the Olivet discourse, the parables, the passion. All a work of imagination. Clearly these writers were towering geniuses who all happen to be born at the same time and place and invent a narrative that no fiction writer in all of history has come close to, except perhaps the “fiction” writers of Exodus.
It is all beyond words in its absurdity, clearly the gospels are accounts written by sincere men.
Wizard you should consider these things more like an artist or penitent using as much heart and creativity as head. That is how God is trying to reach us, through our heart.

For some 1600 years christianity prevented all progress.

This is beyond nonsense Jilles. Thoughts like this have their roots in the most extreme prejudice.

A few quotes from Jean Gimpel (1918–1996) was a French historian and medievalist…. In 1987 he was a founding vice-president of the Society for the History of Mediaeval Technology and Science, the British affiliate of AVISTA and the Association de Villard de Honnecourt.
The Middle Ages was one of the great inventive eras of mankind. It should be known as the first industrial revolution of Europe….
The medieval period witnessed one of the more rapid advances in the introduction of machinery in European history. This could not be accomplished without the effective taming of energy. The most common method was the mill – primarily water but also wind. These mills would grind corn, crush olives, tan leather, make paper, etc. While the Romans utilized the mill, it was not nearly to the extent utilized in these later periods. The relationship is inverse to the use of slaves in the economy – the increasing use of the mill corresponded with the drastic reduction of slavery during the Middle Ages.
Monasteries built in countries separated by thousands of miles – Portugal, Sweden, Scotland, Hungary – all had very similar waterpowered systems within almost universally similar plans for the monasteries themselves…. In certain ways the discipline imposed by Saint Bernard on his monks – the rigid timetable, the impossibility of deviating from the Rule without facing punishment – brings to mind the work regulations that Henry Ford imposed on his assembly lines.

How can you ignore the plain evidence Jillies. Consider Gothic Cathedrals, how do you think these were built. The learning, craftsmanship and imagination needed to enable such buildings is immense, and was being developed over centuries.
Look at medicine. It was Catholics who started the hospitals and universities.

Your claim is clearly wrong.

“The logical key to any posible answer favourable to your beliefs has to be the one Thomas More articulated in Utopia. His Utopia made it a capital offence to deny the existence of Heaven and Hell in an afterlife (or of Hod of course). Why? The obvious reason that God’s creatures as More knew them would, if strong, oppress and exploit the weak.”

The meaning here is a bit opaque.

Are you suggesting Christian societies which believe in heaven and hell and judgement oppress an exploit the weak?

A quote from Ronald Segal’s book on slavery in Islam.

Zanzibar was a black Belsen, a clearing house of shackled humanity, where the stench of death was masked by the cloves on which the island’s Omani emirs built a great trading empire.
Without a nascent industrial complex to feed, many of the men were castrated for domestic service or drafted into slave armies that emptied the lands around the great lakes of their peoples. One in 10, by some estimates, survived the trek from the interior. By the mid-19th century, when east African slave magnates – many of them the free sons of Arab slavers and their black concubines – ran out of infidels and animists to enslave, they, and the expanding black Islamic empires that supplied them, circumvented the scruples set out in the Koran and carried off their own on the flimsiest of criminal pretexts.
Slaves were the luxury goods the Islamic world seemed unable to wean itself off, despite hectoring from a self-righteous west that had embraced emancipation just as mechanisation had rendered slavery obsolete. Like horses and gold, slaves conferred status, and the most opulent households had thousands. When he died in 1870, one Arab official of the black state of Bornu on the shores of Lake Chad had several thousand slaves to complement his stable of 1,000 stallions.

Do you think Rome was any different? It was probably worse.

These slaves simply worked to death, or used for sex, under threat of death and torture.

Catholic culture ended slavery in Europe, it started the hospitals and universities, and yet this culture leads the strong to exploit the weak? It is untrue.

It’s easy to pick and choose single incidents and paint a damning narrative.

The point Jillies is that Christian Europe stormed ahead of the rest of the world centuries before the Reformation when the Catholic Church was the chief spiritual guide of Europe.

The point about the Gothic Cathedrals is that no other culture in world, at that time or at any time until the present would have had any hope of building those Cathedrals. The technology and knowledge only existed in Europe.

Sure they could build buildings, but not on the scale or knowledge required for Gothic Cathedrals.
And the same point rings true in many many fields. Yes Islam and Rome had water mills, they also had army’s of slaves to carry it. Yes Islam and Rome had guns, and ships and armor and farm tools and roads. But in Christian Europe under the Catholic church technical innovation and invention accelerated beyond any country and has always stayed that way until the present.

All this happened before the Reformation.

You divide technology and scientific thought. How the two can be divided is beyond me, But it is also a matter of historical fact that the great universities of Europe had Christian roots, they were organisation started by the Catholic Church.

You’re picking of individual incidents here and there to create a narrative that the church impeded scientific progress is not convincing when the whole of European thought and innovation in comparison to other Non Christian nations is taken into account.

I’ve seen the documentary it was interesting with good production values but I know the work of the experts they consulted so the narrative theme was pretty predictable.

none of the accounts being earlier than about 30 years after the death of Jesus

Only 30 years you say. That is like people writing about the 1980’s today. Are books about contemporary politics in the 80’s suspect because they are 30 years away from the historical events of the 80’s.

I must tell that to all biographers who take Churchill or Napoleon as a subject. These people are lying and their information is utter rubbish hopelessly compromised by the government departments that fund their writing. Any new research or information must be inaccurate because it is now more than 30 years away from the death of the subject.

These arguments are all a bit laughable Wizard, they have been constantly rolled out by haters of the Catholic church for decades.

I doubt if anything I say will change you mind at all. I have had enough conversations with atheists in the past to know that many have erected other idols to worship. And their new idols burn with indignation and injustice towards traditional Christianity.

What’s really impressive about China is not only its extraordinary economic growth, but that it’s so far avoided the bullshit war-mongering hubris and civilizing/colonizing missions that’ve consumed other nations

Yeah China is really impressive.

It has conducted a war against it’s unborn children murdering about a zillion of them. Murdered and enslaved millions of it’s own citizens during the cultural revolution. And has been repeatedly accused of organ harvesting of prisoners.

So far they haven’t had a major foreign war, they have been too busy conducting war against their own citizens.

But in the last 40 plus years something has gone terrible wrong in the US socially. Katy is one story with typical story path that illustrates the problem. She is not fully to blame, but will bear the full consequences of her mistakes.

I’ll join this party of comments about this paragraph.

Obama the other day gave another speech about “not giving up our freedoms”.

That would be the “freedoms” to kill your own babies, divorce you wife and kids, have sex with your own kind or any damn thing you want, never have kids, never grow up, never stop chasing anyone and everyone for sex, curse God, hate everyone except yourself, devote you life to making as much money as you can and screw everyone else, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Those freedoms have come with a pretty heavy price tag, just as the Catholic church has been predicting for many years. The only institution in the world to really oppose all of this.

I don’t know why people won’t get that civilizations don’t survive when they stop having children, destroy their families and allow every type of sexual and personal perversion to flourish along with killing your own unborn children by the millions.

It is really simple Pat, societies like that cannot survive, particularly when they demand constant population growth to fuel economic prosperity.

They don’t survive because such societies are mired in fantasy and selfishness. They no longer live for their children or their family, they live only for themselves and the doppelganger partner they marry.

We are to blame for the rise of Islam and no one is willing to admit the real cause, particularly in the wealthy middle class because they don’t want the debauchery to end. They would like the party to continue for ever even if the price is an impoverished and brutalised underclass and millions of slaughtered unborn babies.

We have become one of the most repulsive and evil peoples in history and sackcloth and ashes are the only real cure.

But no one is willing to say that yet. The wives they married mostly professionals like themselves might have to start having children again.

That’s totally inaccurate in my opinion Rurik.

Financial problems are at the heart of the problem true, but they follow the moral degradation.

The 60’s social experiment had predictable results, less children, more crime, more mental health issues, more unwanted children, more unstable broken marriages.

This kind of social destruction requires two things, immigration to be the babies we never had, and money, big big money to alleviate the massive social destruction of increased crime, drug use, divorce, unwanted children, sexual perversion, etc.

You name it Rurik, do you really think you can pursue policies that legalize drug and pornography use and promote broken families without there being an enormous monetary bill?

The monetary bill came due in the 80’s when central banks throughout the west realized that only constant growth and stimulus and borrowing could keep their vast network of welfare dependencies intact and keep the social life of society smooth. Without the welfare it was anyone’s guess what would happen, certainly the sexual social revolution would fail.

I don’t subscribe to some conspiracy plot, more likely in my view that we sail on a “ship of fools”. They just happen to be atheist fools in our age who think they can turn morality upside down in the pursuit of their own pleasures.

Most of the liberal planners and politician who set us on this course with the consent of many voters genuinely think it was the right thing to do. Now they are defending the choices that were made, these are the “freedoms” that Obama and Hilary talk about.

They are willing to send the whole state and everyone in it broke in order to defend their revolution. I don’t believe it is a conspiracy to enslave us all, although that may very well be the outcome in the long run.

Thanks Talha.

Most societies have been slave owning throughout history and on the whole static and resistant to change. Not surprising with all that manpower which can be leased to any task. The rich were rich in slaving societies because of slaves, often many thousands of them. Not surprising then that there was not much enthusiasm for labor saving devices, that seems like a good way to make powerful enemies.
And one thing about slaving societies like the Islamic empire there must have been immense silent terror among the lowly that they would face the fate that so many slaves faced.

Having all you genitals amputated, being chained in a galley for the whole of your natural life, eating defecating and dying on some galley seat, being literally worked to death and with others having total power over you.

Truly a fate worse than death.

I think that possibly slavery could only be defeated in a society with a Judeo Christian culture.

I love that section in the Bible where Abraham pleads and bargains with God to save the people of Sodom.
“Will the lord of all the universe not spare Sodom if 50 righteous people can be found” and so on.
You could almost imagine God’s thoughts” here I am the God of the whole universe, maker and master of everything listening to a speck of dust arguing for other specks of dust.
And yet God listens, man is treated in some sense as an equal in a moral sense. Eventually the redeemer is God come in the form of a man.
How could such a society which carries this revelation of man’s relation with God, not a slave but an actor and participant, not in the end reject slavery.

Murray is gay.

This will always make him an apologist for the current system.

Because at its heart our system is a decadent sexually corrupt dystopia which pits homosexual men, abortion loving women and feral promiscuous men against all the rest.

With the help of media and academia and the unions these groups have been persuading us for years that these “freedoms”, and they are the “freedoms” Obama loved to mention, are simply a step on the road to utopia.

Unfortunately building society on the blood of millions of unborn children, countless smashed families and a growing, ever growing list of gender weirdness and predation is not and never will work out.

The west has been eaten from the inside out by evil sexually corrupt decadence.

And it is not only the blood of millions of unborn children sacrificed on the altar of Molech feminism which is a pillar of our society, but endless immigration to be the children we never had, and endless amounts of vast welfare to try and ameliorate the societal damage of broken families. Go to Baltimore to see where this all leads.

Unfortunately our society is in vast death spiral and no one will speak the obvious, because they all love their “freedoms”.

Great comment.

Trump is genius. (a stable genius even)

He saw Twitter and understood he could bypass the media and destroy their control.

It has been the saturation media presence through all its forms in our society which has sold us all the idea that we can have it all, and that the media cares about us, and the government cares about us, and the unions care about us and gays and feminists care about us and only want the best for everyone.

In reality all they wanted was money and the best jobs and the power to screw what they want, and divorce their wives, and kill their unborn babies and sell the poor junk and porn and violent trash and drugs, and they cared little about what they destroyed to get these things

This kid like many of the other mass murderers is probably drugged to the eyeballs with anti depressants.

What the drugs do is deaden you conscience, and make you indifferent to life, you own and others. I think they probably free people from feeling pain from the social judgement’s of others and their own self critical conscience.

Heroin and all the major drugs do the same, and is probably why they are widely loved by criminals and prostitutes, etc. Nothing like a drug to stop that moral self critical conscience keeping you awake at night.

Trump has shown quite a bit of ambivalence, even opposition to abortion.

The widespread state supported murder of unborn children is of course the greatest moral evil in existence today.

We are Christian societies, even now.

But the wheat has always been mixed in with the tares. And the tares grow and try to shade out the wheat and cannot be uprooted without destroying the wheat also.

That is a christian society jacques, wheat and tares.

The wheat fought Slavery, the tares profited from it. The wheat fights against the killing of innocent babies before birth, the tares support the murder of them for convenience. They are two obvious moral issues, many others are far less clear.

Jesus said at the harvest of the wheat, then the tares can be separated and burnt. Food for thought jacques.

Feminism has been the cancer, pat.

Elite double income families have enjoyed great prosperity and influence and required many desk jobs for their wives and daughters, preferably in government. They have been fine, had a kid or two now and again and are very keen on their own self perceived virtue. Deep down they know the two incomes they enjoy comes at the expense of working class men who might aspire to better but are now rarely satisfied.

Further down the ladder poor men and women can rarely form bond and form stable families. They have little money and their women would rather Uncle Sam as a partner.

They are harassed by one do-gooding government department after another.

The same do-Gooders have no problem with poor communities being flooded with porn and smut, nor do they seem overly concerned about rising house prices and rent. Wonder why?

There is a cancer in the entire west, and it is leading to great inequality.

MEN MUST STOP CHASING SEX AND THINK OF THEIR NEIGHBOR PARTICULARLY THEIR POOR NEIGHBOR.

Feminism has been the cancer, pat.

Elite double income families have enjoyed great prosperity and influence and required many desk jobs for their wives and daughters, preferably in government. They have been fine, had a kid or two now and again and are very keen on their own self perceived virtue. Deep down they know the two incomes they enjoy comes at the expense of working class men who might aspire to better but are now rarely satisfied.

Further down the ladder poor men and women can rarely form bond and form stable families. They have little money and their women would rather Uncle Sam as a partner.

They are harassed by one do-gooding government department after another.

The same do-Gooders have no problem with poor communities being flooded with porn and smut, nor do they seem overly concerned about rising house prices and rent. Wonder why?

There is a cancer in the entire west.

MEN MUST STOP CHASING SEX AND THINK OF THEIR NEIGHBOR PARTICULARLY THEIR POOR NEIGHBORS.