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Ronald Bleier on 9/11 No Planes Theory
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Ronald Bleier has just published a collection of 9/11-related essays entitled No Plane Crashes on 9/11: Exposing the Illusion. I think it makes a good case against the claim that hijacked-by-humans planes caused the carnage on 9/11. As for whether big planes crashed where we’re told they did, and if so which big planes, I remain agnostic. Compare the arguments in Ronald Bleier’s book to those offered by Wayne Coste, David Chandler, and others who participated in the recent Denver Conference, and draw your own conclusions.

(Republished from Truth Jihad by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: History • Tags: 9/11 
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  1. onebornfree says: • Website

    This”just”in:

    ALL of the alleged”live”video footage of Fl. 175 striking WTC2 , regardless of source [i.e. national MSM or”amateur”] , is 100% fake. Every pixel of every so-called “live” sequence.

    Here’s a close analysis of some of the alleged live “amateur on the spot” videos of Fl. 175’s strike on WTC2, revealing the fraudulence of them all:

    For more evidence of total fabrication of all supposedly “live”9/11 video footage, see here :

    http://onebornfree-mythbusters.blogspot.com/2019/09/onebornfrees-special-scam-alerts-no-110.html

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    , @skrik
  2. dimples says:

    Well I rushed to buy the book on Kindle, perhaps it had something new and interesting to offer. Sadly it’s not much different from eating cardboard box and leftover pizza out of the rubbish bin. Just about every old silly, ignorant, deluded, and yes low IQ idea you can think of thrown in to excite the 911 fantasist, its all there. Is Ronald Bleier a pseuodnym for Richard Blee? I would expect so, the similarity is striking.

  3. The video is ridiculous.

    • Replies: @getaclue
  4. @onebornfree

    That makes sense, judging by the saying, “If everybody’s telling the same story, it’s bound to be a lie”. On that day, all of the TV outlets were running the same footage. There would have been as many points of view as there were TV outlets if each was running its own footage.

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  5. skrik says:
    @onebornfree

    ALL of the alleged ”live” video footage … is 100% fake

    With all due respect and quite possibly; when I saw the TV-broadcast for the very 1st time, I immediately thought: “Hollywood!”

    Much more significant and *the key* is WTC7 free-fall. Once that is appreciated, and reviewing the collapse of WTCs 1 & 2, it becomes *unavoidably* obvious, that *all 3* were ‘control-demolished.’ And the equally *unavoidable* consequence of that is that each tower was ‘pre-loaded’ with explosives – impossible for alleged ‘hijackers’ to do [they were required by the plotters so as to ‘justify’ GWoT]. All the rest, including ‘no planes’ is secondary – even if v.interesting. *Someone* with ‘privileged access’ dunnit. No prize for the correct ‘guess.’ rgds

    PS Also; no DEW, nukes and/or dustify – any ‘pushing’ these is a charlatan.

  6. Thanks for the video.

    For any folks that are new to this stuff (and there are many still out there), just dig in and check it out–it was the government that had the crazy conspiracy theory. It is the “conventional wisdom” because it was fed to the public by the mass media.

    You know .gov and the media have lied about many other things–but this is their “whopper” with cheese and fries.

    There are many very smart people with strong .gov, and/or engineering and/or military and/or scientific backgrounds who are certain that the official conspiracy theory is false–some of them are discussed in the OP’s audio.

  7. Alfa158 says:

    You have to wonder if government conspiracies were in fact being behind events like the Kennedy assassination and 9/11 because of the proliferation of all these baroque, labyrinthine theories.
    The simplest and most probable ways that the conspiracies would have worked would have been:

    CIA/KGB/FBI/Mafia/LBJ/whoever recruits and encourages misfit like Oswald to shoot Kennedy, and arranges for the motorcade to drive at slow speed right by the tall building where he works, which has a clear view from a window at short range, and the roadway runs in a straight line away from the window so he doesn’t have to take a traversing shot. Oswald shoots Kennedy as described by Warren Report. Ruby kills Oswald so he can’t relate who all he has been talking to.

    CIA/Mossad/Bushes/Saudis/whoever set up a dummy terrorist cell that hides its true origins and recruits Arab jihadis who think they are working for fellow jihadis. Arabs carry out 9/11 attack as described by official narrative. No need for Ruby, the perpetrators die in the attack.

    The main thing that the conspirators have to worry about is that their operations are too simple and it might be possible to follow the simple threads back to the origin. Part of solution is to lay down smoke screens and spray squid ink in every direction. Initiate and encourage Byzantine and wildly improbable theories about E Howard Hunt dressed as a hobo, exploding mercury packed bullets from the grassy knoll, final shot being administered by Jackie who was hiding a derringer under her pink pillbox hat, holographic airplanes, nano-thermite painted on girders during construction, airline passengers being transferred in mid-air to CIA airplanes that were crashed into the ocean etc.

    It’s easy to get people to jump on this stuff because frankly it’s lots of fun to elaborate on the theories, and you have the satisfaction of thinking you are privy to esoteric knowledge the sheeple are too stupid and programmed to believe. Trying to trace back the real conspiracy takes resources not available to regular citizens, but staring at pixels in photos through a magnifying glass is available to anyone. And frankly, Occam’s Butterknife is a lot more entertaining than Occam’s Razor.

    Meanwhile the normies who might wonder about who is behind the events dismiss investigations into the origins as the province of tin-foil hat wearers, and the conspirators remain safe.

    I’m not saying that there were different conspiracies from the official stories, but if there were and I was in on them, this is exactly what I would encourage.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  8. I agree Noam Chomsky is a disinfo agent for Zion.

    I also came to the conclusion a long time ago that the planes didn’t bring the buildings down but it took a bit longer to seriously doubt that the planes even hit the WTC in the first place.

    However that does still does not leave the Israelis of ICTS International ang I believe the airlines themselves off the hook in being in collusion with the perpatrators of 9/11.

    Neiiher the Israelis of ICTS International or the Logan Airport officials ever providefd any airport videos of Mohamed Ata and the Saudis boarding that day because they never did.

    However even before 9/11 ICTS International that had control of Schiphol Airport Amsterdam long before 9/11 and with collusion of both El Al Airlines and the Israeli government facilitated the transport of Richard Reid ‘the shoe bomber’ to Israel allegedly or according to Debkra and the Israeli government,in order to visit members of Hamas in Gaza in order to get explosives for his future ‘shoe bomb’. An absurd story but that’s what Debkra and ICTS and the Israeli gov ‘official story is.

    And later ICTS International as security for American Airlines at De Gualle Airport a month after 9/11 allows Reid to board with his alleged shoe bomb on American Airlines flight 66 to the U.S. even though they were the ones who also aided his trip to Israel and Gaza and Hamas and had every reason to know he was more than a little suispect.And American Airlines should have known ICTS was very suspect and fired them immediately after 9/11 ! So both ICTS as well as the airlines that employed them are suspect in collusion or conspiracy.

    And as you know because Veterans Today and the infamous Gordon Duff (who would later email me of his friendship with the corrupt ex CIA George Tenet and people who ripped me off in a stock scam) first came to my attention for their writing about it,ICTS International and flight 253 that brought the ‘crotch bomber’ to Detroit with his failed crotch bomb on Chritmas 2009.

    And there is reason to believe the Israelis of ICTS International like Putin’s and Trump’s,et.al,’s Chabad Lubavitch pals were in and around the Moscow airport bombing a year or so later that killed around 30 people.And not to forget the Malaysian Airlines flight alleged to have been shot down by Russia over Ukraine originated from Schiphol Airport Amsterdam where as far as I know ISTS International in the guise of ICTS Europe were still in control of the security lof.So even though the planes of American Airlines and Eastern Airlines probly didn’t hit the WTC but ICTS AND PROBABLY THE AIRLINES THEMSELVES ARE PART OF THE SEPTEMBER 11,2001 FALSE FLAG.

  9. @skrik

    Nobody seems to suggest the videos of the demolitions are fake. And of course the experts say they were all controlled demolition.

    If the videos of the demolitions were not fake, why would the videos of the planes be fake? I always thought the no-planers were either disinformationists or useful idiots.

    • Replies: @skrik
  10. onebornfree says: • Website
    @skrik

    skrik says: “Much more significant and *the key* is WTC7 free-fall.”

    But, but, but….just as with all of the “Fl.175 into WTC2″ videos,the videos showing WTC7’s”free fall” collapse are 100% fraudulent , as demonstrated here:

    So there is no way to know for sure exactly how fast WTC7 collapsed from the photographic “evidence”.

    skrik says: “PS Also; no DEW, nukes and/or dustify – any ‘pushing’ these is a charlatan.” Agreed.

    regards, onebornfree

  11. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Twodees Partain

    Twodees Partain says:“On that day, all of the TV outlets were running the same footage. “

    Yes, exactly.

    Have you seen this time-synched analysis of the original broadcasts of the 5 US MSM stations from 8.52 am to 9.03 am, revealing that Fl.175’s actual strike time differed by about 3 secs., on [at the very least], one station:?:

    Regards,onebornfree

    • Agree: Amanda
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    , @Amanda
  12. @onebornfree

    Yes, I’ve seen it. There are lots of anomalies in the videos that were aired, but little of it was noticed on the day they were aired. It has taken years of reviewing to establish the signs of fakery and it’s something that anyone who buys the government line should see.

    I don’t come to the same conclusions as the people at that site about everything, but it’s undeniable that they have found evidence of fakery.

  13. Vinnie O says:

    I was in DC on 9/11 and saw the smoke from the Pentagon. I have friends who watched the plane HIT the Pentagon. I have friends whose neighbors and little girl DIED in the plane that hit the Pentagon.

    I like a good conspiracy as much as the next guy, but, Good Lord, at least get SOME of the facts right.

    • Agree: renfro
    • LOL: NoseytheDuke
  14. The whole 9/11 theater was an inside job. One doesn’t need much brain to see through the web of lies and contradictions.
    https://betweenthelines-ludwigwatzal.com/2019/09/10/the-9-11-legend-lives-on/

  15. Mulegino1 says:

    Commercial airliners such as the 767 do not “slice through” steel perimeter box columns and concrete floor plans. In the real world, the aircraft in question would have been shredded to pieces upon impact with the buildings and most of the wreckage would have fallen to the street below the point of impact. They are not going to maintain constant velocity while penetrating the Twin Towers, as if these massive structures offered no resistance.

    Here the principle falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus ought to be applied. There were thousands of cameras- including the cameras of professional news photographers, some in news helicopters- trained on the World Trade Center subsequent to the explosion in WTC 1. Had there been a commercial airliner involved there would be hundreds of clear and identical photographs and videos of the same impact. Instead, all one gets are grainy, fake looking aircraft approaching and impacting WTC 2 from wildly divergent angles of approach. The Hezarkani footage in particular is totally fake. A commercial airliner like a 767 is basically a light and hollow cylinder with delicate wings designed to cruise at high speeds only at high altitudes, and which can be severely damaged by impact with birds in flight at high speeds. No bird that I know of is made out of structural steel or concrete.

    • Agree: Iris
  16. HBM says:
    @Vinnie O

    They’re either kids, schizos or disinfo Agents. It’s been going on for almost 20 years and I’ve never been able to tell which. I wonder if we’ll see more of this sort of thing on Unz as time progresses.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Vinnie O
  17. dimples says:

    From Chapter 9 of this crap book in which almost everything is wrong:

    “Concluding observations about the Somerset County crash site
    The alleged crash site in Somerset County and the events that occurred there on the morning of 9/11 remain a mystery that the U.S. authorities clearly do not wish to reveal. …..Were body parts actually found, and how were they identified? ”

    For pictures of plane debris:
    google “Images of Crash Site and Investigation – Flight 93 National Park Service”

    It was reported that about 600lbs of body parts were recovered.
    The DNA used to identify the bodies was processed by the military.

    A summary of the forensic treatment is covered in
    ‘Hard Evidence: Case Studies in Forensic Anthropology’ by
    Dawnie Wolfe Steadman p289 etc

    So yes a plane did crash and bodies were recovered as you would expect. The only real question is which plane and whose bodies? Why would the plotters not use anything but a plane for the crash, unless they want to make it even more difficult for themselves than it was already?

  18. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Vinnie O

    Vinnie O says: “I have friends who watched the plane HIT the Pentagon. I have friends whose neighbors and little girl DIED in the plane that hit the Pentagon.”

    Please supply the names of these persons who “DIED in the plane that hit the Pentagon.”, or better yet, the names of your so-called “friends” with “neighbors” who died. Thanks.

    Regards, onebornfree

  19. skrik says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    the no-planers were either disinformationists or useful idiots

    Possibly both, BUT also possibly a ‘false dichotomy,’ in that it ignores a 3rd ‘option’ offered by the observation that effectively *no* serial-numbered debris pieces have been presented [yeah, yeah; they *claim* to have excavated ‘black boxes’ from that risible hole in a Pennsylvanian field, haw!], but worse than that, at least one of the alleged ‘collision sequences’ presented on TV shows the entire [alleged] aircraft ‘disappearing’ into the tower – a physical impossibility, according to some experts who really should know. This is called the ‘aluminium-wings cutting through steel-columns like a knife through butter’ *CGI* illusion.

    Repeat: The Arab/Muslim hijackers were needed to ignite the ‘clash of civilisations’ GWoT, and the ‘Hollywood stunt effects’ are now engraved into the sheople-in-the-streets’ mind-sets, however false. [Thanks, but “No, thanks!” to the now far-extended Bernays Haze].

    But I just don’t care; WTC7 free-fall says it all. Any rest is ‘stamp collecting,’ as Rutherford said.

    Then see 16.Mulegino1 says: sanity.

    And 18.dimples says: silly rubbish.

    • Agree: Mulegino1
  20. Sorry, but notion that no planes hit buidings is nonsense. I saw and HEARD the one that hit the south tower, and the blow-out that followed.. That was no illusion

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  21. anaccount says:

    You don’t need fanciful theories to point the finger at the US Government and it’s Israeli overlords. Theories such as these distract from that important conclusion. I don’t think that’s an accident.

  22. And what about the bodies of those who jumped from the WTC that day ? What were their names ?
    Did they have IDs on them ? As grotesque as their landings might be did anyone get a photo or photos?
    Some have rumored that dummies were dropped. What’s the real story about that ?

  23. @skrik

    at least one of the alleged ‘collision sequences’ presented on TV shows the entire [alleged] aircraft ‘disappearing’ into the tower – a physical impossibility, according to some experts who really should know. This is called the ‘aluminium-wings cutting through steel-columns like a knife through butter’ *CGI* illusion.

    A plane disappeared seamlessly into WTC just like this whale disappears seamlessly into the gymnasium floor. 21st century smoke ‘n mirrors.

  24. @Vinnie O

    There were many video cameras in the area around the Pentagon–allegedly the FBI confiscated all of them.

    Show me the video–or it never happened!

  25. Sparkon says:

    I see that Michael Hezarkhani’s landmark 9/11 still frame — proving CGI — has been scrubbed from tinyURL, but 911planeshoax still has a great copy:

    Michael Hezarkhani, CNN, Sept. 11, 2001

    hosted at

    https://911planeshoax.com/

    I suggest saving a copy of this extremely valuable and telling image to your local drives.

    In addition to hosting Hezarkhani’s priceless image, 911planeshoax dot com is a valuable resource for vital information pertinent to the 9/11 No Planes Theory, NPT, or NPF — No Planes Fact — as I see it.

    • Replies: @Amanda
    , @Justvisiting
  26. Amanda says:
    @onebornfree

    It’s good to see you posting here (I first learned of you over at Fetzer’s blog).

    Yes, it’s clear to me there was video fakery on that day and that the MSM was involved more than people realize.

    I’m sure you’re busy, but it would help to have you posting on 9/11 articles over at zerohedge. Although most commenters are “awake” and realize the official narrative of 9/11 is a complete lie, most are still not aware of all the fakery involved in these events. I’m one of only a few people trying to point out the media fakery. Unfortunately, most there haven’t heard of September Clues.

    • Replies: @Ozymandias
  27. @dimples

    The ten pictures at https://www.nps.gov/media/photo/gallery-item.htm?pg=3941191&id=C7A5CE33-155D-451F-670470E00A6C301D&gid=C7A45234-155D-451F-67A019C294E6A905 provide underwhelming evidence that 200,000 pounds of airliner and contents were excavated from the earth beneath the virtually empty 15 foot diameter hole in the ground where USG says the plane “disappeared into the soft earth.”

    The NTSB, which always “reconstructs” every destroyed plane piece by piece after every crash, showed up to do its job at Shanksville but was sent home by the FBI.

    If anyone can find a full record of video and photo evidence documenting the supposed excavation of the 200,000 pounds of wreckage of Flight 93, and chain-of-possession evidence about where it went after alleged excavation and where it is now, please let me know!

    • Replies: @BlackDragon
    , @dimples
  28. Roninf5 says:

    Why fake the planes hitting the towers using some weird technology that hasn’t been used again in almost 20 years when using real planes works just as well? To answer the claim that aluminum “can’t cut steel” I say water ” can’t cut steel” except when you have enough of it moving fast enough. The tidal wave that hit Sendai, Japan in 2011 was moving over 400 mph and wiped out whole towns and villages including steel framed buildings and structures. Flight 11 was doing 465 mph when it hit the North Tower and weighed at least 350,000 lbs. That amount of mass with that momentum is going to break the outer steel lattice of the tower regardless of what it was composed. Besides that the towers were designed to break that way so a jet crash wouldn’t knock the whole thing over.

    The” No Planes Theory” is designed to distract and discredit the central point that 911 was a Mossad/US Deep State false flag attack.

    • Replies: @anaccount
  29. Vinnie O says:
    @HBM

    I started working on the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy back in the ’60s while I was still in High School. NOBODY talks about Pearl Harbor being part of a plot FDR to get the GERMANS to declare war on the US. Read “Admiral Kimmel’s Story”. Kimmel was CINCPAC on 7 Dec. He got the job because he agreed to make sure the fleet was in port EVERY weekend. He DEMANDED a court martial. They repeatedly refused to give him one.

    I don’t know what actually happened in New York, but an airliner from National Airport crashed next to the Pentagon, and another airliner crashed in Pennsylvania. HUNDREDS of people died, and and it took WEEKS to clean up the wreckage.

    • LOL: NoseytheDuke
  30. I believe that the best way to approach and understand the false flag/psyop of 9/11 is that it was produced like a Hollywood movie and that the script was written years in advance and over the years the public were primed to accept the production as reality . Segments such as the CGI’s of the planes hitting the buildings and the jumpers were filmed beforehand and on the day actors , like the “Harley Guy ” were used to implant the false story that planes had hit the Twin Towers causing explosions and intense fires that caused the buildings to collapse . Prior to 9/11 the public had been conditioned to accept that Muslim Jihadists were planning terrorist attacks on the US , so it was easy to scapegoat Osama Bin Laden . Talking heads who told the live TV audience that the collapses of the Twin Towers looked like demolitions quickly changed their tune under intense pressure from the producers .

  31. Hillbob says:

    Where was Atta’s passport found again?

  32. @skrik

    *all 3* were ‘control-demolished.’”

    If WTC 1 & 2 were control-demolished, then why were hijacked-plane collisions even necessary to the plot? Why not just blow up the buildings without the added plane drama? The same villains (jihadis) would be blamed, wouldn’t they?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  33. @Vinnie O

    Vinnie, I know what you mean. My sister’s cat’s grandmother had friends who knew people whose neighbors were on some of the planes. I know people who know people whose distant relatives knew somebody who made a phone call to somebody on the plane that hit the Pentagon.

    It’s a small world, ain’t it?

  34. @dimples

    “It was reported that about 600lbs of body parts were recovered.
    The DNA used to identify the bodies was processed by the military.”

    Reported by whom? Where is the report? Is there a list of names? How were the DNA samples obtained for matching to the body parts? That must be some recently concocted bullshit because nothing like that was reported anywhere that I saw in the two years following the supposed crash.

  35. @the shadow

    Yes, of course you did. That’s why you came forward as a witness and your name is on record, right?

  36. Amanda says:
    @Sparkon

    Thanks for the link–that’s a new one for me!

  37. What is needed is real people on the ground in NY that day that saw the planes WITH THEIR OWN EYES to back up the videos or you will get nowhere. Im on the fence about no planes. I suspect controlled military aircraft look alikes to the passenger planes or empty passenger planes. ALL aircraft made by Boeing since 1990 s can be remotely flown, that is a fact. NO plane hit the Pentagon, only an idiot would believe that. It was a missile.
    On the buildings, my own experience I was woken up in early hours of the morning, my country’s time, by a phone call from a friend that the WTC buildings were on fire. I turned on the TV and saw the BBC live stream by the local TV network. When the building came down I was very suspicious at that time that something was amiss, very amiss. How could plane crashes cause a large building like that to totally collapse? To my science and engineering training this looked VERY odd.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  38. @Kevin Barrett

    Remember that Boeing MAX that hit the deck at estimated 500 mph in Africa earlier this year (I forgot the month) It lefts a 30ft crater in the ground and the debris was scattered for hundreds of feet around the site engines and all. Very easy to see the wreckage. So that alone exposes Shankesville as a fake crash site. It is IMPOSSIBLE not to have debris on the ground or clear it up before the NTSB got there.
    This also applies to MH370, impossible for NO debris in the WHOLE ocean after an airliner crashed into it from 10km up!! Again look at the debris documented from MH17! (Shot down by the Ukrainian Airforce MIG29!!!)

  39. renfro says:

    I see the kooks are all here. Something hit the WTCs and the pentagon, you can debate what it was not if it happened.

    What you should be pursuing boys , is who knew the code name for Air Force one was “Angel”.
    Why NORAD delayed Air Force One Capitan’s request for fighter escorts.
    Why only two out of 12 of Air Force One’s phones was working, when they had all worked perfectly the day before during the flight check.

    Seems like you would be more interested that the Secret Service aboard the plane with Bush were saying that that a phone call to the WH saying ‘Angel was next’ proved some ‘insider’ had to be involved……cause only the WH and the SS knew the Angel code name.

    • Replies: @paranoid goy
  40. dimples says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    From Wikipedia “United Airlines Flight 93”

    “All human remains were found within a 70-acre (28 ha) area surrounding the impact point.[105] Somerset County Coroner Wally Miller was involved in the investigation and identification of the remains. In examining the wreckage, the only human body part he could see was part of a backbone.[106] Miller later found and identified 1,500 pieces of human remains totaling about 600 pounds (272 kg), or eight percent of the total.[107] The rest of the remains were consumed by the impact.[108]”

    From ‘Hard Evidence: Case Studies in Forensic Anthropology’ Chapter 23

    “As in all disasters, the responsibility for victim identification resided with the local medicolegal authority—in this case the Somerset County coroner. With the scene under law enforcement control, the coroner needed to locate and outfit a temporary morgue. A National Guard Armory building (a repair shop for military tanks) a few miles from the crash site was chosen, and the coroner and FBI requested federal assistance for the victim identification process through the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team (DMORT) Region III team. The fifty-member DMORT team was activated on September 13. In addition to other forensic and mortuary specialists, the team also included eight anthropologists, including the team commander and two anthropologists from the Mercyhurst team. With previous experience in mass disaster victim identification, several of the DMORT anthropologists took on responsibilities for the Flight 93 response that included team management, protocol development, database management, and data verification. “

    I’ve definitely read an article which stated that Bush took away responsibility for the DNA examination from the local Somerset County Medical Examiner and placed it in the hands of the military, however the above segment states otherwise.

    For persons wanting more pics of the plane debris, feel free to FOI the FBI! I’m sure you and a million others want the chain of custody etc etc, but sadly cannot have. By various legal sleights of hand debris from all the planes cannot be examined. At least that was the situation 10 years ago. The NTSB was sent away by the FBI because I assume they did not want the plane to be identified. The crash site being soft dirt overburden was I expect chosen so that the plane would be substantially buried on impact. No parts would be spread about available to be photographed or pinched by the public. All 911 crash sites have this characteristic, apart from a few parts including engine of Flight 175.

    In my opinion the original plane carrying the original passengers did not crash at the site. However it’s clear a plane did crash. How the DNA swap was managed is a curly one. Flight 93 was also a mail plane and mail (if you are going to plant it) must be fresh. I assume therefore the plotters pinched a few mail bags from the original Flight 93 before it took off in case they were needed for a drone plane crash.

    • Replies: @dimples
    , @paranoid goy
  41. dimples says:
    @dimples

    An alternate theory, which has just occurred to me, is that the swarthy Arabic-speaking Israeli special forces team that did the hijack just bailed out of the original plane. The Cockpit Voice Recorder features a loud wind noise that sounds like a door is open.

    This would have the obvious advantage that all the evidence at the crash site would be kosher.

  42. dimples says:

    More from the book ‘Hard Evidence: Case Studies in Forensic Anthropology’

    p551

    [MORE]

    “The initial processing of remains involved a method called triage, a twostep process that focused the initial forensic efforts on remains having the greatest potential for identification (Kontanis and Sledzik 2008). The triage team (composed of an anthropologist, dentist, pathologist, DNA specialist, and an FBI agent) first separated the human remains from aircraft debris, personal effects, botanical items, animal remains, and the other non-human material. The FBI agent determined if any of this material was of evidentiary interest, and such items were removed to a separate facility for processing. Human remains with associated physical evidence (e.g., a ring on a finger) were processed at the pathology station, where both were documented and the evidence then removed. FBI and DMORT personnel maintained chain of custody for recovered evidence throughout the morgue operation.

    After separating the human remains, the triage team evaluated the set of remains for potential identification. Large pieces of bones and joints, skin with dermal ridges, and dental remains were sent on for comprehensive documentation and analysis at the morgue stations. Small pieces of tissue, severely burned or decomposed remains, and small bone fragments were set aside for later analysis if required. Triage relied particularly on the unique skills of forensic anthropologists (trained in skeletal biology, human anatomy, and fragmentary human osteology) and DNA analyst (for evaluating DNA potential). The triage sorting process focused efforts on remains that led to the most conclusive identification of the largest number of victims in the shortest period of time.

    Upon leaving the triage station, remains were carried to the admitting section where sequential morgue numbers were assigned and electronic and paper files created. A tracker (typically a DMORT member or law enforcement personnel) personally accompanied each specimen through the morgue during the documentation and analysis process (Figure 23.1). All remains were photographed and radiographed, and then examined at the anthropology and pathology stations. Dental remains were sent to the dental station and specimens exhibiting skin with dermal ridges (fingerprints or footprints) were sent to the fingerprint station, staffed by the FBI Disaster Team’s fingerprint identification experts.Lastly, bone or tissue samples from the remains were taken at the DNA station. The remains were then taken to a secure refrigerator truck for storage. Because Flight 93 comprised a closed population of victims, the forensic efforts focused on identifying as many fragments as possible for each victim. Antemortem data were collected for each victim at the family assistance center (FAC), which was established at a resort hotel about 30 miles from the crash site. Families traveled to the FAC to receive information about the investigation and to provide the antemortem data. A trained team conducted interviews with family members to collect contact information for dentists and medical doctors, data on the unique biological aspects of the deceased, and information related to personal effects. DNA reference samples from biological relatives of the victims were also collected at the FAC.

    Post-Event Operations

    The on-scene DMORT response lasted twelve days, ending on September 25. Ten victims were identified during that time, through both dental and fingerprint methods. The remaining victims were identified over the next three months using DNA. By December 2001, DNA analysis of 540 submitted samples resulted in 498 DNA profiles and positive identification of the remaining thirty passengers and crew. As is often the case in events resulting in fragmentary remains, multiple remains from each victim were identified. Four unique DNA profiles, representing the terrorists, were also isolated, although not identified. The efficiency of the analytical protocols and morgue process of the Flight 93 team was best illustrated by the fact that when the FBI ceased recovery efforts by noon of September 25, the DMORT morgue operation concluded their work five hours later. The volume of material and debris associated with this crash focused the initial efforts on documenting and removing physical evidence, human remains, personal effects, and identifiable aircraft debris relevant to the investigation. However, once the FBI released the scene to the coroner, unidentifiable aircraft debris remained, especially in the dense concentrations of coniferous trees that trapped material in upper branches. Anticipating that treasure hunters could descend on the site and remove significant plane parts, important physical evidence, and even human remains, three additional searches were conducted. In the two subsequent weekends following release of the scene to the coroner, hundreds of volunteers conducted forensic archaeological hands-and-knees searches of the grounds within the debris field and sieved the back dirt piles removed from the crash crater through ¼ inch mesh screens (Figure 23.2). The work revealed important physical evidence and additional human remains. A third, large-scale search was conducted in the spring following a rather harsh winter. More material, including human remains, was recovered. Anthropologists analyzed all the remains recovered in the additional recovery efforts and assisted in DNA sampling. They also became involved in the final reassociation of the identified remains after the DNA results were obtained. In the months after the crash, anthropologists also took on the task of finalizing all the data in electronic form, and generated final data tables that aided in the reassociation process. By early 2002, the remains of all the victims of the crash of United Flight 93 had been returned to their family members for final disposition.

  43. @Sparkon

    omg–you buried the lead!

    On the link is Donald Trump talking to local media about the strength of the structural steel of the two buildings. He says that additional explosives would have been needed to take down buildings of that strength.

    This was just a couple of days after the fact, before everybody was told what they _should_ think.

    So Trump _knows_ at least some elements of the official version are a lie. Probably he knows that _all_ elements are a lie at this point.

    Interesting.

  44. @BlackDragon

    I would welcome the opportunity to take a squint at any pictures you have showing any plane wreckage on the ground at the WTC taken during the interval between the “crashes” and the buildings coming down. I don’t recall seeing any identifiable aircraft wreckage on the ground from either “plane crash” and I would have expected there to be more than just a little.

  45. @dimples

    This theory has occurred to others. It explains Daniel Lewin…though why he was using his own name is a mystery.

    • Replies: @dimples
  46. Republic says:

    Any theories about Daniel Lewin, that Israeli commando killed on 9/11?

    Some reports say that he is still alive under a different name while other reports link him to Steward Air Force in New York State when one of the flights was said to have landed and various voice recordings were made by the passengers

  47. @Alfa158

    Exactly. You have it in a nutshell. All this “engineer” crap is just that, crap. Caring about how it was done nicely diverts from caring about who did it and why. Who would be the US government itself. And why would be to clamp the clamps down nice and tight forever. Not complicated. But true.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  48. Skeptikal says:
    @obwandiyag

    Actually, I agree with Dr. Judy Wood that first we need a detailed description of what actually occurred. Absent such a detailed description of actual evidence, all else is jumping to baseless speculatoin and jumping to conclusions.
    First we must figure out what actually occurred.

    Only then can one start to try to home in on means and opportunity? Motivation and “who” comes last.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  49. dimples says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    I’ve always assumed that the death of Daniel Lewin was another proof that the hijackers were not the canonical Arab hijackers. He had been placed in the seat directly in front of one of the hijackers according to the seating arrangements released by the FBI. This suggests foreknowledge on the part of the plotters, who took steps to neutralize him by cutting his throat before he could make a move.

    However why he would have changed his name, or why this shows that the real hijackers bailed out, you’ve got me there.

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  50. Sparkon says:
    @Skeptikal

    Actually, I agree with Dr. Judy Wood that first we need a detailed description of what actually occurred. Absent such a detailed description of actual evidence, all else is jumping to baseless [speculation] and jumping to conclusions.

    Yes, good point, and I agree.

    Unless the scene of the crime is described fully and accurately, there will be little chance of solving that crime.

    I do not agree with Dr. Woods’ conclusion that the Twin Towers and perhaps other WTC buildings were destroyed with a Directed Energy Weapon (DEW) on 9/11. Nevertheless she has done a very fine job of gathering evidence, and also in asking the right questions.

    For example, the lack of substantial debris heaps over the Twin Towers’ respective footprints invalidates the commonly heard but entirely incorrect mantra that the Twin Towers collapsed onto their own footprints.

    Widespread structural debris from the Twin Towers well outside their respective footprints completely destroys that bogus meme, a false notion that prevents skeptics from understanding the type and extent of destruction at Ground Zero.

    The Twin Towers did not collapse into their own footprints, but rather were blown to pieces from the top down.

    Nobody who has studied the photographs of Ground Zero could possibly reach the erroneous conclusion that the Twins collapsed into their own footprints after viewing images of abundant structural elements and debris from the Twins scattered widely, not only all over the original WTC real estate, but also well beyond that site, with large multi-ton structural elements from the Twin Towers having been hurled hundreds of feet beyond Ground Zero, some of it striking adjacent structures and inflicting on them substantial damage.

    Thermite can’t do that. Space beams can’t do that. But something did do that.

    Additionally some authorities say iron-rich microspheres are a signature component of WTC dust, with <1% to ~6% of the WTC dust being comprised of the tiny spheres. Very high temperatures above the melting point of iron (~2,700° F) would be required, along with passage through the atmosphere where surface tension would have shaped the molten iron into spherical shapes as the cooling metal fell to Earth.

    You can't do that with an underground nuclear explosion, but you probably could do that with a series of above-ground micro-nukes, possibly fusion devices which possibly would expend most of their energy as intense heat.

    Psst. But but but… if we had fusion, all our energy problems would be solved

    As if solving our energy “problems” were a real issue, given our mountains of coal.

    Even if it [works], given society’s dismal record in managing technology,
    the prospect of cheap, inexhaus­tible power from fusion is “like giving a machine gun to an idiot child,” Stanford biologist Paul Ehrlich says.

    Laments Washington-based author-activist Jeremy Rifkin, “It’s the worst thing that could happen to our planet;” Inexhaustible power, he argues, only gives man an infinite ability to exhaust the planet’s resources, to destroy its fragile balance and create unimaginable human and industrial waste.

    So there you have it.

    However, considering the millions billions possibly trillions we have sunk into fusion research, including black weapons projects, I would not be astonished to learn that yes we have fusion devices, but no, you can’t have any. Only the idiot children get to play with the machine guns.

  51. dimples says:

    Here is another proof or good evidence that the hijackers were not the canonical Arabs. This is the timing of the hijack of Flight 93.

    From Wikipedia “United Airlines Flight 93”

    “With the attacks unfolding, air traffic officials began issuing warnings through the Aircraft Communication Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS). Ed Ballinger, the United flight dispatcher, began sending text cockpit warnings to United Airlines flights at 09:19, 17 minutes after he became aware of Flight 175’s impact.[27] Ballinger was responsible for multiple flights, and he sent the message to Flight 93 at 09:23. Ballinger received a routine ACARS message from Flight 93 at 09:21.[27] At 09:22, after learning of the events at the World Trade Center, LeRoy Homer’s wife, Melody Homer, had an ACARS message sent to her husband in the cockpit asking if he was all right.[36] At 09:24, Flight 93 received Ballinger’s ACARS warning, “Beware any cockpit intrusion—two a/c [aircraft] hit World Trade Center”.[37] At 09:26, Captain Jason Dahl sent an ACARS message back, “Ed, confirm latest mssg plz —Jason”.[37] At 09:27:25, the flight crew responded to routine radio traffic from air traffic control. This was the last communication made by the flight crew before the hijacking.[38] The hijacking on Flight 93 began at 09:28.”

    The hijacking of Flight 93 took place approximately 45 minutes after take off time of 8:42. This is toxic to the official narrative in itself, because by that time the hijackers would have no chance to arrive at either New York or Washington without being shot down. Why would Arab hijackers wait this long, to the point when any sacrifice of their lives would have been useless.

    Also the hijacking took place only five minutes after the ACARS message warning of cockpit intrusion was sent. So either the timing of the attack took place by coincidence in the last few minutes before the pilots would have locked the cabin door (or be on the alert if the door was already locked), or it indicates that the plotters, having monitored the ACARS messages, communicated with the hijackers by sat phone telling them they had to move now.

  52. @dimples

    Some speculate that Daniel Lewin and other Israeli commandos hijacked the plane, set the controls for the WTC, and bailed out. If so, Lewin should have used an assumed name.

  53. @renfro

    …So this kook thinks he adds to the conversation by dismissing everyone as kooks, then he proves his superior intellect by some obscure factlet that must have grabbed his attention for some reason.
    renfro my bro’ (say bra), why don’t you stroke my ego and visit
    http://www.greenpets.co.za/index.php/en/32-paranoid-goy/economics/109-911-wayleave
    Not only are the conspiracy theories unnecessarily complicated, it never adresses the question of who made (or saved, in this case) the most money.
    To put the airplane/no airplane nonsnense into perspective, see:
    http://www.greenpets.co.za/index.php/en/12-paranoid-goy/165-911fraud
    I apologise for the self-advertisement, but apparently the kooks need someone to save them from your viscious intellect.

  54. @dimples

    Please, sir, me stoopit. Please, please, explain why it is “clear that a plane crashed” at any of the sites. Please explain the “soft overburden” chosen to hide the plane, was this a (how long is a boeing?) 200-foot deep layer of volcanic ashes? Fairy dust? Rotten excuses piled up in Satan’s bunghole? Oh, and you saw an engine? Are you refering to the airconditioning ducting they showed lying in the street, or the lift-hoist motor that was found the other day between two buildings a mile away? Do you know how big a commercial jet engine is, dear (insert preferred personal pronoun, I bet it is a new one)? Oooh, this subject makes me cranky! And yeah, I have also met people who know people whose neighbours died so tragically that day… I think all investigative power should be turned upon finding out who and where the people on the original passenger lists were. CIA assets now hidden/terminated? Possibly they never existed, because there were NO PLANE CRASHES.
    Just to be sure, show us one, just one case where a plane crash evaporated evidence like these one apparently did. For fun, google the indestructibility of cheap childrens’ sunglasses, then bring me one from any of your ground zeroes. All you can produce is a couple of magical, indestructible passports that floated miraculously into the hands of an FBI agent.
    So, kooky, go call your mother a kook, for raising a rude little kook like yourself. Friggin’ kook!

  55. @Amanda

    “I’m one of only a few people trying to point out the media fakery.”

    So, it’s sort of like a willingness to believe promotes you to member of a small, very exclusive club?

    It ain’t granola unless it’s got fruits, nuts, and flakes.

  56. @dimples

    The Cockpit Voice Recorder features a loud wind noise

    Wait, wha… You heard the Cockpit Voice Recorder? Poast the download link. Please.

  57. anaccount says:
    @Roninf5

    Not even sure why this is here. Even Ron Unz pointed out this common form of misdirection in the Truth movement except the “no plane” theory makes ‘controlled demo’ evidence look rock solid. Of course, even if controlled demo was true (perhaps in the case of WTC 7) it’s still a major distraction from what matters.

    But ultimately the “no plane” theory is about as credible as flat earth theories, one of the biggest distractions out there right now. Amazon and Walmart sell a lot of flat earth books.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  58. Sparkon says:
    @anaccount

    Please see the Hezarkhani image I posted above in my #26.

    http://www.unz.com/audio/kbarrett_ronald-bleier-on-9-11-no-planes-theory/#comment-3442361

    Do you honestly think that is a real airplane?

    If so, please explain how it has managed to penetrate the building without any reaction from either the alleged 767 of UA flight 175, nor from WTC 2.

    You should also do some reading at the link I supplied, where you’ll find statements from expert pilots and other aviation experts attesting that a 767 cannot fly at the alleged speeds while at low altitude. Decorated former CIA pilot John Lear has signed an affidavit stating no 767 jetliners hit the WTC on 9/11.

    Flat Earth believers are gullible, and so are those who accept the official narrative about 9/11. I would add that all believers in man’s religions are gullible too.

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