The best study where the virus came from is the study by Roland Weisendanger.
As the English version does not seem to come by google, I put it here:

http://www.pienisalaliittotutkimus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Study_Origin_Coronavirus_Pandemic_Wiesendanger.pdf

As I like to check if I agree on something, I made my own very small study:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350089360_Genetics_suggests_that_SARS-CoV-2_is_man-made

So, the virus does look to me like man-made, whatever the main stream says.

The symptoms of the virus vary. No one has the same symptoms. The testing is unreliable.

Without the same symptoms and with an unreliable test, how do you detect a virus?

In the meantime, they tell us that the regular seasonal flu and even pneumonia have disappeared.

The whole thing is ridiculous

Yeah, sure, not only is the U.S. the most incompetent nation on Earth (Ron’s explanation for why U.S. has the worst COVID numbers in the whole world) but now he’s exposing the conspiracy by revealing that the death count is actually twice as bad as the CDC is letting on? Do we really need more urgency and hysteria to improve our pandemic response? Does anyone really think one million Americans have died of this virus? Are we really that fat, and co morbid, and old, and incompetent? Dare I say exceptional?

Also “biowarfare blowback” is a ridiculous narrative. Much more convoluted than a BSL leak on U.S. soil. Which, you know, actually happened in mid 2019. The identity of the leaked biological agent is classified.

I wonder what Hillbob thinks about all this?

Also “biowarfare blowback” is a ridiculous narrative.

I guess they used “Covid” because the Russians had exhausted all the supplies of “Novichok”. LOL.

The symptoms of the virus vary. No one has the same symptoms. The testing is unreliable.

COVID appears to cause everything and nothing, so maybe it is really just a group of several different diseases, from flu to pneumonia to headache. The testing just serves to “unify” them as the same disease.

But I’m not even sure of that, because many if not most people who test “positive”, have no symptoms at all, so they are not even ill in any meaningful sense.

Now according to “scientists”, apparently even cats and dogs can have “heart problems” because of a “COVID variant”. LOL:

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-cat-dog-170657197.html

2 of several possibilities for positive tests: test is wrong or test is preset positive.

This is about US bio-labs in Eastern Europe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8hQi2Zv1L0

Video Link
And at 29:20 in the above podcast you discover how the research was sent to Wuhan.
Shame on America, shame on the Zio-Cons, shame on teflon coated and shameless people who just sallow this propaganda.

41:53: (Ron Unz) “They [the Chinese govt], in effect, had lost the propaganda war, even before they’d even realized they were in one.”

Exactly. A hallmark of the US Empire.

They used the same thing against the Serbs in the 1990’s. And against many others.

Does anyone really think one million Americans have died of this virus? Are we really that fat, and co morbid, and old, and incompetent? Dare I say exceptional?

Does anyone…

No. Even locally we’ve had an over 85-year-old die of overexertion during the frigid cold season in January but reported as a “covid” death. Lots of others like it I’m sure.

Soon we’ll abandon the notion of blowback and consider the evidence that CIA intentionally infected the US to impede attribution of their germ warfare sneak attack.

(1.) Federal health authorities balking early testing in Seattle:
( https://www.nytimes3xbfgragh.onion/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html )

(2.) CDC putting Rod Rosenstein’s wife in charge of early testing fiascos, and now adverse-event reporting debacles.

(3.) The O’Hare clusterfuck, which conveniently muddled the genetic evidence presented by Taiwanese experts.

(4.) CDC classifying its planning and deliberations.

Learn the very best story on how US government has stopped most doctors from giving their patients the best, cheap and proven COVID treatments and prevention protocols. This hot new book Pandemic Blunder is must reading. Here is press release and links to recent podcasts,

In Weisendanger’s paper I don’t see any mention of the outbreak of the “mysterious respiratory illness” at the Greenspring Retirement Community in Springfield, VA, in June and July of 2019, which sickened sixty-some people, and killed three; an “illness” whose symptoms seem strikingly similar to those of Covid-19.

Any paper such as this one which puts the blame on the Wuhan lab without even addressing the disease outbreak in VA in 2019 (and the U.S. government’s suspicious refusal to identify the pathogen responsible) has to be deemed pure propaganda, IMO.

Time for a Bombshell Ron & Kevin.
Now that I’ve heard Ron’s perspective, I’d like to…fill-in-the-blanks.
Dots. Dots…connecting the Dots as it were.
Time for an *Exclusive* here at Unz Review.
Ready?

I made the following connection last year after the *Beirut Bombing* in August.
Ron mentions, “covid appeared/was reported on the 6th of January 2020 for the 1st time”.
And, the “intelligence agencies knew about covid in November 2019”.
https://www.rt.com/news/486072-us-intelligence-israel-coronavirus/

One thing I do know is…the MSM only reports the news the TPTB want people to concentrate on.
And, ALWAYS, Always, Always make people look in the WRONG-direction.
Always!

So.
Here it goes:
What happened the 3rd of January 2020? Qassem Soleimani assassinated.
“The Washington Post reports today that the idea to kill Soleimani came from Secretary of State Pompeo”.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/killing-of-soleimani-follows-long-push-from-pompeo-for-aggressive-action-against-iran-but-airstrike-brings-serious-risks/2020/01/05/092a8e00-2f7d-11ea-be79-83e793dbcaef_story.html?arc404=true

What happened the 8th of January 2020? Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 was shotdown over Tehran!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752

This Dr. cleverly works around YouTube’s Community Terms to get at some of the truth by probing the various descriptions of COVID in Wikipedia:

Video Link

Harold, were you aware that there was a 2cnd outbreak 7 miles away in Brooke, VA at Heatherwood?

They claimed no link to Greenspring, but 7 miles and probably services and personnel common to both in all likelihood.

Without the full release of all data, which is the same as China has refused to do, just what the hell are we supposed to think?

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/post-acute/2nd-virginia-care-facility-sees-respiratory-outbreak.html

While I still feel it was an intentionally released bioweapon, it is hard to make a decision by who, unless it was all of them.

In the Jan. 2021 paper: “An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19” which concludes that

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained.

the authors address the risk compensation issue, which in my option is a red herring that should be ignored:

Risk Compensation Behavior

One concern around public health messaging promoting the use of face covering has been that members of the public may use risk compensation behavior. This involves fear that the public would neglect other measures like physical distancing and hand hygiene, based on overvaluing the protection a mask may offer due to an exaggerated or false sense of security (96). Similar arguments have previously been made for HIV prevention strategies (97, 98), motorcycle helmet laws (99), seat belts (100), and alpine skiing helmets (101). However, contrary to predictions, risk compensation behaviors have not been significant at a population level, being outweighed by increased safety in each case (100, 102⇓⇓–105). These findings strongly suggest that, instead of withholding a preventative tool, accompanying it with accurate messaging that combines different preventative measures would display trust in the general public’s ability to act responsibly and empower citizens. Polling and observational data from the COVID-19 pandemic have shown mask wearing to be positively correlated with other preventative measures, including hand hygiene (106, 107), physical distancing (106, 107), and reduced face touching (108). Three preprint papers reporting observational data suggest that masks may be a cue for others to keep a wider physical distance. (109⇓–111).

“It’s not just coronavirus deaths that have contributed to the high figure, as early information indicates that suicide deaths have not dropped after doing so in 2019. Drug overdose deaths have been significantly higher n 2020, with the CDC reporting over 81,000 drug overdose deaths in the 12 months leading up to May this year. The final numbers for 2020 as a whole are expected to be higher, with experts suggesting the pandemic has disrupted services that would otherwise help those struggling with addiction.” — many died who were denied medical services needed because every resource was for “Covid” where hospitals got paid tens of thousands more for the diagnosis etc., your heart surgery could wait, oh hmmm maybe not…. — so I wouldn’t be so sure as to the jump being all CVirus as those who have thrown all in on the hysteria seem to want to do….

https://www.complex.com/life/2020/12/2020-deadliest-year-in-us-history

>taken from the official CDC website

Why do you think this is meaningful? The CDC is in bed with big pharma. You could even say they are a vaccine company, not a federal agency. It’s like you’re using a Jewish historian to prove the existence of the Holocaust without bothering to consider the alternative.

I get the sense that Ron is not doubling down to save face but rather is very genuine. But it’s hard to fathom how he can understand the Holocaust, the JFK assassination and 9/11 Truth but not see the big picture. He speaks of China and the US but not who controls them. Events on the world stage are choreographed theater. There’s no sense in getting frustrated with those who don’t “have ears to hear”.

For those who want to learn, James Perloff’s: Truth Is A Lonely Warrior is a must read.

Harold, were you aware that there was a 2cnd outbreak 7 miles away in Brooke, VA at Heatherwood?

I was aware of it, I just mentioned the outbreak at Greenspring for brevity and because that one unexplained outbreak alone is all it should take to implicate the U.S. “government” IMO.

Without the full release of all data, which is the same as China has refused to do, just what the hell are we supposed to think?

I’m not aware of China refusing to cooperate or being unreasonable in matters involving Covid-19. What I am aware of is that the suspicious outbreaks in the U.S. predate by several months the outbreak of Covid-19 in China and from that I can only conclude that the virus originated in the U.S.

Interesting view but its hard to believe that the massive changes in the West in the last year were just aimed at dealing with unintended blow back. There is a very sophisticated plan behind all this and the virus is just a pretext.

Here is another scenario. The intelligence agencies usually maintain plausible deniability and promote confusion and doubt by laying out many scenarios to disguise their real agenda. The Kennedy assassination, for example, has many leads deliberately planted, with people on the payroll to promote them. It was the Mafia, anti-Castro Cubans, far right wing groups, the KGB, a lone nut, and as a limited hangout, rogue CIA agents. To discredit all theories, throw in a crazy one or two, such as a secret service agent accidental shooting. I suspect the biowarfare blowback is another plausible but false lead. I wish it were true, though.

It probably is too late now to avoid the totalitarian nightmare that the ruling elite has planned for us.

I do not read Weisendanger’s study as propaganda
against China dismissing the USA. It does say clearly that when the USA forbid gain-of-function research, it was outsourced to Wuhan.

My co-author John Fryer in my small study was convinced that the vaping disease in the
USA was caused by SARS-CoV-2. I did not want to put it to our joint paper because that
was only of genetic signs and there was no genetic data on the vaping disease, but it is mentioned.

It is the believe of Weisendanger, Fryer and me that the USA is heavily involved in this.

Mr. Ron Unz,

There was a video that shows Mike Pompeo, in a slip of his tongue, mentioning that the Covid19 is a llive exercise ( a live exercise) in the presence of Trump and several reporters. Immediately Trump retorted, why was he in the dark.

This further adds to your theory that some rogue elements created the bio attack

“I suspect the biowarfare blowback is another plausible but false lead.”

The virus looks man-made implying it is gain-of-function research. Gain-of-function research can be presented as dual use, but for any military such a virus is not very useful as 80 years old are not soldiers and an economic attack by a flu-type virus cannot be limited to the area of the intended opponent. So, it need not be development of bioweapons in the military sense. If the real goal of this research was not military, it could be medical research for vaccines, or just for scientific knowledge, (or to take a more sinister idea, it could have had the goal of causing the world-wide effects that it causes). But probably it escaped and was not spread intentionally. False leads are also needed to cover up mistakes, like the false lead that there is no virus.

COVID appears to cause everything and nothing, so maybe it is really just a group of several different diseases, from flu to pneumonia to headache. The testing just serves to “unify” them as the same disease.

Technically it’s a catch-all term like “epilepsy” or “schizophrenia” rather than a rigorously defined condition. Older analogies like “hysteria” as a psychiatric diagnosis are even more apropos.

Such vaporous undefinable terms often are used and abused for political purposes, and “Covid” is by far the most extreme and premeditated such abusive concept.

Insofar as the “excess death” numbers from 2020-21 are accurate at all (and even if they are they’re not historically unprecedented or extraordinary), it’s not proven that “Covid” exists as a new thing and isn’t really a compilation of (1) a new strain of influenza especially dangerous to the aged who already are sick (this would explain the otherwise inexplicable phenomenon of the flu, “by coincidence”, going on vacation starting early 2020), (2) all the excess deaths from cancer, heart disease, respiratory illness etc. caused by the abdication of the health care establishment in compliance with the “Covid” panic itself, and (3) all the many other excess suicides, homicides, drug overdoses and other deaths of despair caused by the lockdowns themselves. These three cohorts are combined and rebranded for propaganda purposes.

Ron,
Once you have shown due dillgence on the matter of the use and misuse of the PCR test then I will take your arguments seriously. Until then, quoting the mortality figures of one country with the assumption that all (any ?) of the spike is attributable to a disease identified almost exclusively by that test is putting the cart before the horse.
Likewise, throwing around pigeon hole labels such as ‘anti-vaxxer’ or ‘flu hoaxer’ is, alongside selective and partial argumentation, somewhere between a rhetorical device and a propaganda technique. (I file these in the folder with ‘conspiracy theorist’, ‘anti-semite’ and ‘holocaust denier’).
The test of a theory is its power to predict the future. Those who have pointed out the false inflation of the Covid crisis, the lack of evidence that masks, lockdowns, social distancing and business closures have made any measurable difference to the course of mortality, these people have predicted just about everything the past twelve months with alarming accuracy.
It would have been be easy to establish just how many people have died of this disease, but that seems to have been deliberately obfuscated at every turn by governments around the world, and you have to ask “Why?”.
Your theory of an adversarial bioweapon attack from the US deep state upon China makes no sense for a number of reasons to me. One obvious one is the choice of a virus that disproportionately kills the elderly. In the cold calculus of the psychos who would unleash such a thing, the older demographic are seen as a drag upon a nations economy, such that killing them off would be ‘a help’ to the enemy. All agree that the risks to those in the prime of life are much lower than from flu.
Covid is a war, but not one between (the obsolete concept of) nation states, but between a globalised oligarchy and the population of ordinary people.
https://off-guardian.org/2021/03/23/lockdown-one-year-on-it-doesnt-work-it-never-worked-it-wasnt-supposed-to-work/

Ron’s comments about NYTimes, WSJ.. “putting lot of resources” on Covid-19 subject amused me. The agencies and propaganda machines are their unpaid resources.

I could not find one simple explanation in this charged debate. Why on earth people in Bombay or Calcutta slums and many around the world where the whole family of 8-9 lives in one room and does not get sick. They dont have money to buy even a mask. Unfortunately, the Microbiome topic is new to the most debaters. That could be good point to start.

Speaking of mask! let the professionals speak on the subject. N95 captures particulate above 40 microns so why wear for flue where the size is 1 micron or so (or does anyone really know). You will need electrostatic precipitator, not a mask.

That happened a week after Trump showed up to the COVID presser in a funereal black USA ballcap. The end of MAGA, March 13 2020:

I had this infection in late June of 2019 – 6 days in the hospital – doctors said it was an unknown virus. I got it again around thanks giving of 2020 – exact same symptoms – side effects – Parkston’s like symptoms,tinnitis, weakness and fatigue. Our country is controlled by criminals and liars.

“I’m not aware of China refusing to cooperate or being unreasonable in matters involving Covid-19.”

Seriously?

Despite the likelihood that SARS CoV 2 is genetically engineered, the virus is not very deadly. The simplest explanation is that the virus was not designed to be a weapon per se, it was designed to be a delivery platform. It could be a missile without a payload. We know that coronaviruses have been studied as vaccine delivery platforms (specifically, for chickens). It is entirely plausible that the virus is a vaccine prototype and not a weapon prototype. It is a SARS virus that has undergone gain of function enhancement to improve its transmissibility and reduce its lethality.

However, it apparently leaked out of USAMRIID at Ft. Detrick by accident. Someone decided that the accident must be covered up. The cover up escalated to the point of seeding the virus in China, near Wuhan’s own BSL4 facility. It’s important to note that USAMRIID and WIV are sister institutions: not so much combatants as collaborators. The same can be said for the political systems of the United States and China at large. Thus it is perfectly plausible that China is a willing participant in the cover up of what happened at Ft. Detrick. The pandemic response is all about protecting globalist interests. Ron’s fantasy of nationalist biowarfare is absurd.

“81,000 drug overdose deaths in the 12 months leading up to May this year” is about 10k increase from the pervious year. This accounts for less than 2.5% of the excess deaths in 2020. I think the same goes with the suicide deaths. If they indeed increased in 2020 the net increase is a tiny fraction of the total excess deaths in 2020.

I do not read Weisendanger’s study as propaganda against China dismissing the USA.

What happened in VA in the summer of 2019 is a critically important fact and leaving it out of a paper that purports to identify the origin of SARS-CoV-2 is more than just bad scholarship – it’s a conspicuous omissive lie that discredits the whole paper IMO.

It is the believe of Weisendanger, Fryer and me that the USA is heavily involved in this.

I don’t know what Weisendanger or anyone else may or may not believe or claim to believe, but on page seven of the paper he makes the statement:

“This year-long study concludes that both the quantity and quality of the evidence clearly point to a laboratory accident at the Wuhan Institute of Virology as the cause of the current pandemic.”

Since in arriving at this conclusion and publicly making this defamatory claim he ignores critical facts that would seriously undermine it, he is just another pathetic liar in the service of the evil empire and an accessory to mass murder. I would compare him to the impostrous Hymie Brown, the shameless liar who helped the evil empire cover up its responsibility for the 9/11 false-flag terror attack.

However, it apparently leaked out of USAMRIID at Ft. Detrick by accident. Someone decided that the accident must be covered up. The cover up escalated to the point of seeding the virus in China, near Wuhan’s own BSL4 facility. It’s important to note that USAMRIID and WIV are sister institutions: not so much combatants as collaborators.

As I see it there are several problems with your reasoning and two of them have to do with timing. First, the timing is conspicuous in the sense that the outbreak happened in China at a time when it would have a good chance of being spread around the country due to the mass migration of people traveling home across China to celebrate the Lunar New Year. Second, the timing is conspicuous in the sense that the outbreak happened at a time when it was clear that the U.S. “government” was openly going all out to bring China down a few notches, i.e. to contain it by way of a damaging hybrid war.

SARS-CoV-2 was discovered in China as the U.S. “government” was trying to destabilize Hong Kong, ramping up provocations in the South China Sea, arming Taiwan, trying to damage Huwei with sanctions, putting tariffs on Chinese products, trying to prosecute Meng Wanzhou, etc. It strains credulity to believe that the Covid-19 outbreak happening when and where it did was just another coincidence that just happened to be favorable to the evil agenda of the evil empire.

The more likely explanation IMO is that it escaped from Ft. Detrick – accidentally on purpose – as part of a plan to send infected personnel to China to participate in the military games and get the pandemic started there, then play it down and delay travel restrictions so as to let infected people enter the U.S. creating “plausible deniability” that it originated here.

If our masters were willing to sacrifice their own people at Pearl Harbor to get into WW2, and they were willing to sacrifice the crew of the USS Liberty to try to start a war for the jews in the Mideast, and they were willing to sacrifice thousands of people on 9/11 (and the toxic aftermath) to get the global war on terror started, and they are willing to risk nuclear war and planetary extinction with risky nuclear brinkmanship, surely they would have no problem infecting the peasants with SARS-CoV-2 in pursuit of their agenda to stop the rise of China, IMO.

Yep, seriously. Please link to the compelling evidence that supports your claim.

You see, the U.S. “government”/media complex falsely claimed that Iraq was not cooperating and not being forthcoming about its (imaginary) weapons programs; and the U.S. “government”/media complex has made the same kind of apparently false claims about Iran not cooperating and not being forthcoming with regard to its alleged “nuclear weapons” program. So when such claims are now made about the empire’s latest enemy du jour, China, if I am to be convinced I will need to see something beyond a bare assertion made by an anonymous commenter on the internet.

(4.) is the debacle. If the data is not available for 3rd party review and debate we are not allowed to participate and the people who are participating have a hand and four fingers tied behind their own backs. Why?

By the way . . .

Kudos to Mr. Barrett and Mr. Unz! They are stellar.

a. “very likely”; a little exaggerated. I will go 50-50.
b. “nobody knows who is behind it”
i. the people who did it know
ii. their bigger deep state competing factions are 95% sure who did it

meanwhile we get to speculate.

“in arriving at this conclusion and publicly making this defamatory claim he ignores critical facts that would seriously undermine it”

You are correct. Weisendanger does not consider evidence that the pandemic started earlier and there are virus traces in Spain and what is found in the USA is likely to be the same virus. This is the problem of drawing conclusions on where the pandemic started and why I personally only looked at genetic signs if the virus is natural or man-made. It will be some time before one can say where this pandemic started and even when, and more time (if at all) of who did it and why. But Weisendanger does give reasons to believe that it is not natural, as the current official theory says. I do not think you should ask for more from a mainstream scientist. If you claim more, you will not be mainstream for long.

now he’s exposing the conspiracy by revealing that the death count is actually twice as bad as the CDC is letting on?

I wish Mr Unz would try to explain the following graph

The following chart shows US age-adjusted mortality form 1900 to 2020. To take population ageing into account, the mortality of each year was adjusted to the US standard population of the year 2000. US age-adjusted mortality in 2020 was similar to mortality in 2004.

Covid-19 Mortality Overview

Video Link

As I see it there are several problems with your reasoning and two of them have to do with timing. First, the timing is conspicuous in the sense that the outbreak happened in China at a time when it would have a good chance of being spread around the country due to the mass migration of people traveling home across China to celebrate the Lunar New Year. Second, the timing is conspicuous in the sense that the outbreak happened at a time when it was clear that the U.S. “government” was openly going all out to bring China down a few notches, i.e. to contain it by way of a damaging hybrid war.

SARS-CoV-2 was discovered in China as the U.S. “government” was trying to destabilize Hong Kong, ramping up provocations in the South China Sea, arming Taiwan, trying to damage Huwei with sanctions, putting tariffs on Chinese products, trying to prosecute Meng Wanzhou, etc. It strains credulity to believe that the Covid-19 outbreak happening when and where it did was just another coincidence that just happened to be favorable to the evil agenda of the evil empire.

The more likely explanation IMO is that it escaped from Ft. Detrick – accidentally on purpose – as part of a plan to send infected personnel to China to participate in the military games and get the pandemic started there, then play it down and delay travel restrictions so as to let infected people enter the U.S. creating “plausible deniability” that it originated here.

I do not think you should ask for more from a mainstream scientist. If you claim more, you will not be mainstream for long.

Better to be truthful than have the blood of innocent people on your hands. If that’s the case with him he should give up on “science” and perhaps seek employment at CNN as an imperial “‘science’ correspondent” or something like that, since he is apparently not a scientist but a mouthpiece for the evil empire.

US age-adjusted mortality in 2020 was similar to mortality in 2004.

And it shouldn’t have, Alfred, not unless there was some special reason (Covid) causing a lot of extra deaths in 2020.

It is not the nominal value of mortality that matters, but the trending over the years. The US age-adjusted mortality on your chart is shown to have been quite regularly decreasing, since at least 1974. So what caused the 2020 mortality to suddenly spike back to the levels of 2004?

Do they address the virus not existing issue?

Thanks for that outline.
It really amazed me how the Americans played PRETEND on this one.
What bombs falling on our Iraqi base? Oh, just a bad headache.
What plane full of Intel officers getting shot down in Afghanistan by the Taliban?
No, of course we didn’t try to assassinate the Iranian leadership during the ‘Covid’ outbreak with a bio-weapon!

For people who connect dots the Mossad-CIA behaviour isn’t just more of the same. To me it shows they are out of ideas and increasingly desperate.
I remember seeing Dr. Dave Janda on the Sgt Report-ytube trying to sell the line of crap that Soleimani was ‘Deep State’. Really, I’m supposed to believe that garbage? This is the level of childish bullshit and stupidity the Media-Industrial-Complex pumps out. Another good one was Time magazine babbling nonsense on how the election was ‘protected’by the ‘good guys’ not stolen but protected.
It is as though they believe we are retards. Supposedly, people born from 1980 on in the U.S. are so ‘vaccinated’ they are losing strength, cognition and overall vitality. A massive spike in ADD-autism is also noteworthy AND criminal.
It is Time to clean house.
Michael Collins 110

More people died.
Now, what I question is why?

Physicians used to have freedom treating disease whereas now they are bullied and badgered by insurers and the AMA-Big Pharma-Corruption.
The elderly,the main covid sufferrers, should have been treated with antibiotics (doxycycline or HCQ), imervectin, zithromax, vitamin D, zinc and a steroid aerosol like budesonide or such to keep their upper respiratory tract working.

INSTEAD the Fauxci Medico-Criminal group crapped all over these attempts to TREAT people.
Personally, I am convinced we should have a criminal investigation into malicious negligence and disregard for citizens under color of authority.

The lies and criminal behaviour of the last year is off the chart. TPTB murdered our ELDERLY.

Further, the PCR was run at a high frequency to generate false positives. The regular influenza seems to have ‘vanished’.
Finally, they incentivized covid deaths through a premium paid to the hospital for covid vs. Regular deaths.

Ron Unz, given these facts I cannot see how you can insist that we should believe the death toll. I don’t believe these numbers are legitimate. I would think that we need to be looking to iron out a methodology to arrive at the Truth.

Project Warp Speed should change focus to head hair loss.
I want my lost hair back by June.

For protection against Covid, aka Tony Balony, avoid YSM (Yid Stream Media).

Numbers from the establishment are a dime a dozen. Sometimes less.

Tell me what you want; I’ll give you a number.

Time to declare the horse manure over.

Dedicate a big dump to Year of Manure.
Everybody into the streets a la ISISANTIFABLM,
drop trousers, squat, dump on pic of Tony.

It’s over. It’s over.

Seriously. Please provide some evidence in support of your claim.

I’ve head that when someone in hospice is infected with Covid, the symptoms are often very similar to the symptoms the patient had before being infected.

reminiscent of listening to a chomsky interview. granted i could only take 15 minutes, so maybe it got REALLY GOOD. i kind of doubt it.
endless factoids and quotes from just about every newspaper and media source on earth…
and yet, what?
no big ideas, no big picture, no basic common sense.
no, just details upon details, studies, reports…
did it ever cross unz’s mind that the whole PREMISE could be totally false?
why assume that ANYTHING coming from these media outlets is true?
they are professional liars. and until proved otherwise, i’m going to assume that unz is one too: very much ‘one of them’, very much ‘a part of it’.

That’s right, this site is 100% limited hangout. Ron’s done a far better job of discrediting legitimate opposition than any MSM site ever could.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079046/chinese-supercomputer-and-american-doctors-clash-over-ai

The supercomputer agrees.

The negative effects of the lockdown could easily explain an increase in deaths. And in fact, this has been shown. So 500,000 counts of murder should be added to the charges against Dr. Fauci and his accomplices.

However, I’m *very* skeptical about this part. If (rogue?) elements of our national security decided to launch a biowarfare attack against China, why in the world would they stage a leak at Ft. Detrick and then cover it up?

Perhaps because they wanted to leave open the possibility that it could be something other than a malicious, calculated act. For both the sake of a foreign government that might not want to escalate tensions, and for the sake of those people who desperately need to be fooled (rather than face an ugly truth about “their” “government”), incompetence is much preferable to malice, so there has to be some kind of a cover story where they can find solace.

The notion of deliberately infecting American military servicemen and then sending them to the Wuhan games to do a lot of coughing is totally ridiculous, and there’s ZERO evidence that any American participants were themselves infected.

First, as a practical matter I don’t know that they would need to do “a lot of coughing”; just being in close proximity to others for any length of time seems to do the trick. After all one of the main design goals of a bioweapon is that it’s highly infectious.

As far as there being “ZERO evidence that any American participants were themselves infected,” I would have to ask, what kind of evidence should we expect to see under the circumstances? All the military personnel were long gone by the time the Chinese government knew what was going on and I doubt that the U.S. government would be forthcoming with any information that might implicate U.S. personnel. According to news accounts like the following, the U.S. was “urged to release health info of military athletes who came to Wuhan in October 2019.” Did they? Not that I know of.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1183658.shtml

Sneaking a couple of perfectly healthy operatives into Wuhan with the 300 Americans and then having them release the virus makes vastly more sense. I’ve also seen ZERO solid evidence of any leak at Ft. Detrick, accidental or otherwise.

Well I’m starting with the assumption that the outbreak of the “mysterious respiratory illness” at several locations in VA in June and July of 2019 was Covid-19, so the virus was already circulating in the area and it had to come from somewhere.

And I’m assuming the anecdotal reports that some of the personnel who attended the Wuhan games were stationed at Ft. Detrick are correct. So it seems plausible to me that some of the attendees were infected. As far as evidence is concerned, we always seem to lack hard evidence, whenever “government” seems to be involved in a crime. After all that’s happened I am amazed that there seems to be no effort underway by anyone involved in the outbreaks in Virginia to identify the pathogen responsible.

I think the whole Ft. Detrick leak story is just low-quality pro-China propaganda so that the Covid-19 outbreak can be blamed on the US while pretending it wasn’t a deliberate attack so as to avoid any call for retaliation.

Well the CDC apparently did shut down Ft. Detrick for a while; beyond this all we can do is speculate unfortunately.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/11/24/cdc-inspection-findings-reveal-more-about-fort-detrick-research-suspension.html

I think Godfree Roberts has most recently begun claiming that Covid-19 originally came from India, presumably because of the recent China/India conflict.

LOL! That’s the first time I’ve heard that.

Covid was planned well in advance. Richard Rothshcild patented Covid-19 Biometric Tests in 2015 & 2017. The tests were manufactured in China and numerous other countries waiting to be shipped to the world by the Rothschilds Elites. What a great coincidence that these tests were just happened to be ready to used to test for Covid-19.

Proof the Rothschilds Patented Covid-19 Biometric Tests in 2015 & 2017

Published on October 20, 2020

Written by Silviu Costinescu

So what caused the 2020 mortality to suddenly spike back to the levels of 2004?

Assuming the “excess mortality” numbers themselves are accurate

(which I don’t – living in a mass society I can’t see or directly hear about such things, and what reliable source is there for such figures?)

but assuming they are, the causes of death are a combination of influenza; the wholesale abdication of the health care system in compliance with the “Covid” insanity plus a deliberate campaign of active euthanasia, misdiagnosis and neglect of the elderly; and deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves.

These have been combined and called “Covid” deaths through a combination of purely fraudulent PCR testing and ideologically motivated rebranding which implies that all mortality is “Covid”.

As for “Covid” itself, I see no reason to think it’s anything more than a catch-all term for the above which has no scientific rigor, only propaganda purposes.

“…that chart you displayed looks like it might be reasonable, though I don’t know it’s source…”

(1) Yes, it looks reasonable. I looked at graph of age adjusted death rate here:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data-visualization/mortality-trends/index.htm

which shows that from 2004 to 2018 the death adjusted death rate dropped from 8.137 to 7.236 which is 12.5% improvement. Actually I am surprised that in 14 years our medical care and life styles reduced death rate that much. Age specific death rates on average must be going down every year.

(2) The source is Swiss Policy Research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Policy_Research

Swiss Policy Research (SPR; before mid-May 2020, Swiss Propaganda Research)[1][2] is a website launched in 2016, which describes itself as “an independent, nonpartisan, and nonprofit research group investigating geopolitical propaganda in Swiss and international media”. While the editors of the site are unknown, they claim that “SPR is composed of independent academics and receives no external funding”.[3] The site has been criticised for spreading conspiracy theories, especially relating to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Due to the persistent use of the German letter ß, which is not commonly used in Switzerland, it has been suspected that the creator is not from Switzerland, contrary to what the website title suggests.

Stephan Russ-Mohl, professor of journalism and media management at the Università della Svizzera italiana, considers the articles on the SPRS to themselves serve as propaganda, rather than being serious research on the subject. He has noted that the anonymity of the website creates doubts over the reliability and authenticity of its research, particularly in a country such as Switzerland, which has full freedom of its press.[

But I think SPR did not generate the graph. SPR links to Tweet of Stinson (Steve) Norwood of Dec. 23, 2020 who has this graph.

(3) One misleading trick used here is the statement that 2020 is just like 2004 which suppose to suggest that the epidemic is not a big deal because it is just like 2004 because we all survived 2004 and haven’t noticed there was anything wrong in 2004. Obviously one should compare mortality rates with the expected mortality rate obtained by extrapolation from the recent years like 2017-2019 and then we see that the age adjusted mortality rate increased by 12% comparing to 2019.

And the second misleading trick is in the graph where from the age adjusted mortality they calculated a new total 3.2 million (green) from the actual total 3.3 million (red) which reduces the number of death by 100,000. This is obviously methodologically invalid and thus meaningless. If the reference was year 1970 not 2000 in calculations of the age adjustment the difference would be different than 100,000.

So as you can see Swiss Policy Research engages in subtle suggestible disinformation. They do it at each step they can. I have to admit they are pretty good at it. You hav to be savvy to pick it up and when you have slight anti-covidian bias you will eat up what they serve. Officially nobody knows who is behind SPR.

Okay, so you don’t believe the CDC figures about total American deaths in 2020 or other years. Maybe you shouldn’t believe the US Census about our total population either. Perhaps there are really only 100 million Americans, and the much larger figure is just a lie.

Well it’s not as obvious why they’d lie about the total population number, but true, I see no reason to believe the number. In that case I just have no special reason to believe or disbelieve, the way we’re forced to choose in the case of such propaganda-fraught numbers as the alleged US total and “excess” deaths in 2020.

If one analyzes the way I do that, regardless of the alleged status and origin of “SARS-COV-2”, “Covid” is the pretext for a massive pre-coordinated onslaught of terrorist propaganda and aggressive policy measures, then it would follow that they’d also manufacture in whatever way necessary what they consider the most politically expedient numbers of overall and “excess” deaths.

Just as Boomers were a cohort that formed a bump in the curve of births, as they die off, it seems reasonable to suppose that that demographic will inevitably provide a similar bump in deaths. How much of the extra 500,000 is due to Covid and how much is due to simple aging out is an open question.

Also, the idea of this being a biological attack against China launched by “rogue actors” in the deep state seems pretty weak to me. Why is it “suspicious” that the outbreak in Wuhan coincides with American military presence in China at that time? Actually, if you were launching an attack, that would probably be the worst time to do it, since that would leave it easily traceable back to you. Instead, why not smuggle the virus in inconspicuously? There are thousands of ways to do it. If you suppose, as Ron does, that previous Chinese agricultural epidemics were also American attacks, then they must have already used such ways before.

If you really want to go full tinfoil hat, why not suppose that these “rogue actors” in the deep state wanted to happen exactly what happened, namely, to kill off a lot of the American elderly? Most are retired, don’t work, and are draining funds from Social Security that in the eyes of the ruling hostile “elite” could better be given to immigrants. The whole thing could be a plot to abolish American Constitutional protections and introduce a whole new level of global totalitarian control.

IFR in Europe 1%
IFR in the US. 0.8%

Predicted COVID-19 fatality rates based on age, sex, comorbidities and health system capacity
https://gh.bmj.com/content/bmjgh/5/9/e003094.full.pdf

J2 says the best study of the coronavirus is by Weisendanger. Weisendanger relied on laowhy86 who made a fool of himself.

Hahaha, LOL. Laowhy86 made the world’s greatest discovery that Patient Zero is Huang Yan Ling because she was a researcher who disappeared from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Lawowhy86 deserves a Nobel Prize.

Remember last year , when Laowhy86 made a great discovery that 20 million Chinese died from Covid19 because about the same number of mobile phones were terminated. LOL.

Of course Huang Yan Ling disappeared from WIH because she went to Chengdu to join Chengdu Huasun Technology Group as Director.

https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/CN/XSHE/000790/company-people

By early February, 2020, Chinese WeChat was already flying with rumours that patient zero was Huang Yan Ling from WIH because she “ disappeared”.

All this was already rebutted on 17th February by WIH.

“ The next day on 17th February, 2020, WIV and the company that Huang works in both refuted the rumours. The WIV released a statement saying that Huang had been working outside of the province since she graduated and had not returned since. It added that Huang was not infected and in good health. Two other WIV researchers also told The Beijing News that nobody at the institute was infected. The biology company in Sichuan where Huang works also clarified that Huang has been at work as usual with no symptoms.

https://www.thinkchina.sg/embroiled-controversies-did-covid-19-come-wuhan-institute-virology

Laowhy86 should be awarded a prize for “Clown of the Year “.

In the cold calculus of the psychos who would unleash such a thing, the older demographic are seen as a drag upon a nations economy, such that killing them off would be ‘a help’ to the enemy.

You could argue that evil forces tried to get rid of the useless old and putting the blame on China. Thus making thee own system more effective and demolishing china’s reputation.

(ahhh – you can find logic in any kind of reasoning. That was one of Dr. Freud’s main points. I once knew the director of a psychiatric clinic in Switzerland, a renowned and quite experienced psychiatrist himself, who said, if he had the choice whether to lose a leg or be a seriously diluted neurotic, he would not hesitate for one second and give away a leg . . . .)

((I agree with what you say about the PCR tests etc. – the lack of pathological research could have been added (I think of Professor Klaus Püschel in Hamburg Eppendorf and his findings that none of the hundred or so dead bodies he had looked into had died of CO-19 – all with it, so: The the official diagnoses were wrong and misleading throughout))).

Can be a less infectious strain of the virus, assuming it is man-made as it looks like. The
same in Spain, can be a different strain, as these did not cause a pandemic.

So, the patient zero was not Huang Yan Ling. It changes very little. Weisendanger’s study does not depend on the identification of the patient zero. It is a literature study and gives impressive accumulated evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is likely to be man-made.

Weisendanger does not look at genetics of the virus, but genetics does suggest that it is a man-made virus. I give my simple argument for it: The official theory is that SARS-CoV-2 was naturally created by recombination of Chinese horseshoe bat CoV, that was a close relative to RaTG13, and a pangolin CoV.

Pangolins do not naturally live in China but are imported from Malesia and live in pangolin farms and are sold in animal markets. But no farm or market with pangolins has been located where pangolins have SARS-CoV-2.

As the divergence time between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13, when correctly calculated, gives the origin of SARS-CoV-2 to about year 2002, very recent. It should be possible to find the infected pangolin population. Yet, it has not been found.

Thus, either the natural recombination occurred inside some closed institute where there were Chinese bats and Malesian pangolins, both with viruses, or what is more likely, there was no natural recombination. The virus could have been easily created with well-known method of moving a part of pangolin CoV to the bat CoV. This is then the likely scenario. It is supported by furin cleavage site in the virus, which could not arise from a natural recombination of these two viruses, but resembles, yet is not identical with, a furin cleavage site in MERS.

This is so regardless of if the patient zero was a worker of WIV or not. At most we can discuss if WIV had a role in this virus or not. We get the result in Weisendanger without using any claims in his study, just by looking at the RNA of the virus.

The elderly, the main Covid sufferers, should have been treated with antibiotics (doxycycline or HCQ), imervectin, zithromax, vitamin D, zinc and a steroid aerosol like budesonide or such to keep their upper respiratory tract working.

This is exactly the argument that Covid’s “skeptics” should be pursuing, instead of proposing self-defeating contentions such as “the CDC has faked the numbers” or even worse “SARS CoV2 does not exist”.

Covid has caused so many avoidable deaths because Western governments deliberately decided not to treat patients in the early stages, and instead keep them apart from their family doctors who could have controlled and stopped the disease from evolving into much more serious, deadlier forms.

This lethal Public Health policy error has been denounced by France’s Pr Didier Raoult, who, against government orders, fulfilled his mission and treated over 1000+ Covid patients, using low-cost Hydro-Chloroquine, a drug that was an early target of the pharmaceutical corporate propaganda effort.

The much lower Covid death rates in the North-African neighbours of southern Europe is striking. They, of course, have much younger populations. But being less brainwashed, they also had very different Health policies from the onset, indiscriminately treating early Covid patients instead of keeping them at home, even going to the extent of creating Covid sub-wards within each specialised ward.

If Covid was indeed intended at supporting a larger socio-economic restructuring covert agenda by the world oligarchy (the “Great Reset”), a thesis I personally believe to be true, then its fear-mongering, tyranny-enabling effect was accomplished by letting people die, not by faking the CDC numbers.

I agree with you about the timing, it looks clearly intended to make the initial spread of the virus in China as rapid as possible.

I’m not sure I agree with you about attacking China. Like all of Trump’s policies, I’m not sure if his anti Chinese rhetoric was genuine or just an aspect of psychological manipulation. I know America and China are now tied at the hip, raised up and bound by the Zionist purse. Maybe this is the moment when America gets thrown under the bus and China become the new globalist police force. But globalism is here, I fully believe, global governance is integrated at the top of the pyramid. For this reason, I also think that China might be willing to play along with a cover up. They don’t even have to take blame. They just have to allow plausible deniability. Currently the mainstream consensus is zoonotic origin. I think this will hold, it doesn’t matter how many think it’s a bio weapon as long as it is popularly regarded as zoonotic.

The whole world is interconnected…TBTF.

Well it’s not as obvious why they’d lie about the total population number, but true, I see no reason to believe the number

Dear fellow commenter, you have to realise that Health figures databases are not under the control of a handful of individuals who could forge them unnoticed. They have to be built and operated as per internationally approved quality standards, which requirements include transparency and auditability.

This means that, for instance, that the CDC is mandated to provide a break down of its mortality figures by counties, or whatever the smallest administrative entity is in the US.
So any Health officer in a given county would immediately know if the figure they provided to the central CDC had been tampered with to obtain a much larger total national death rate.

The data-acquisition process is slow and stable, its control distributed all over the country.
Each county’s Heath officer could become a potential whistle-blower. Not ideal for fiddling with the numbers. This is a well-established process with thousands of unrelated actors, not the Presidential election controlled by one software company.

I think the whole Ft. Detrick leak story is just low-quality pro-China propaganda so that the Covid-19 outbreak can be blamed on the US

That’s fine Ron, so why don’t you use your super sayanim Scooby Doo powers to investigate what pathogen leaked from the bio safety laboratories at Ft. Detrick last summery? It’s one of the biggest mysteries of 2019, a blatant cover up by the CDC, and the story is highly relevant to the saga of SARS CoV 2, which many people believe was leaked from a bio safety laboratory. In your most recent Pravda article you carelessly or disingenuously implied that there was no leak of any kind at Ft. Detrick last summer. Why?

You can also use your newfound epidemiological panache to investigate what caused EVALI. Did you know that the CDC was demanding clinicians look for history of vaping from the very beginning of the “outbreak”? It was their hypothesis from the beginning, meaning it was not based on actual observations. They never claimed to have any evidence to support their hypothesis. Do me a favor, Ron, and make a simple statement about what caused EVALI, backed up with a source. EVALI is NOT a disease, it has no known aetiology. EVALI is ONLY an association. Again, the story of EVALI is highly relevant to the saga of SARS CoV 2, since “both” new diseases that had identical symptoms and emerged within months of each other.

Seriously, two of the biggest unsolved mysteries of 2019, both plainly relevant to SARS CoV 2, and you brush them off as low quality pro China propaganda?

Get back to work!

If you suppose, as Ron does, that previous Chinese agricultural epidemics were also American attacks, then they must have already used such ways before.

There is an obvious difference in the practicality of the delivery method.

It surely seems feasible to have, say, low-ranking fifth column proxies seeding viruses and bacteria over cattle by flying delivery drones at night, in low population-density areas of China’s countryside.

It seems another matter altogether to do so in the food market of an 11-million inhabitants megalopolis. I purposely mention the food market because it seems the logical hub by which a virus would be intentionally distributed wide and fast.

A simple indicator Covid is a balony Tony Corony:

the number of mayors, governors, congressrats, rich, who

have violated their own rules/restrictions for the 2020 BS.

“BS is for you not for us. We’re special. You’re controllable-disposable.”

are you sure it’s the health care system? check out decline in smoking:

https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-tobacco-trends

Decline in smoking leads to decrease in lung cancer. Greatest single contributor to lung cancer is smoking. Lung cancer is one of the big four, and so decrease in smoking leads to decrease in lung cancer, and decrease in death rate. Not health care system. Big four cancers: lung breast prostate colo-rectal,just over 50% of all cancers.

Each county’s Heath officer could become a potential whistle-blower.

Yes, and we’ve seen what proportion of such cadres become whistle-blowers, and how much traction those handful attain.

And I’m sure that “health officers” (that’s quite a term; ah how much better it is today than back in the Stone Age when we only had doctors and not commissars impersonating them – my main personal experience with the local health officers is how they would harass our farmers’ market and several local small farmers of my acquaintance) are likely to refuse to conform to top-down directives on falsifying the alleged “Covid” numbers.

Oh wait, according to everything I’ve read pretty much every health officer conforms to every decree, no matter how self-evidently anti-scientific and manipulative of the statistics.

No, I think if they’ll go along with the PCR test they’ll go along with anything.

I know America and China are now tied at the hip, raised up and bound by the Zionist purse

China doesn’t give a s*** about “Zionist purse”, and has proved so all along the past 20 years.

Since entering the WTO in 2001, China was able to internally fund its outstanding developmental effort mostly by planning and using its own, state-produced monetary commodities. It has now reached escape velocity from the Zionist financial order.

I wouldn’t be surprised when we learn that most Central Banks of the “Global South”, as Pepe Escobar names it, actually have much larger foreign currency reserves in yuan than publicly acknowledged. Who would not be tempted to store its wealth in the stable currency of an efficiently-managed, super-stable economic superpower, from which one can procure absolutely anything they need?

Versus the toilet-paper money of a failed economy, whose currency’ real market value is controlled by a financial oligarchy of gamblers, and whose only noticeable production is weapons, which they won’t sell you anyway without Israeli vetting?

One of the things I noticed was the U.S. “government” fixation on “ventilators.” While the U.S. “government” was busy publicly, constantly bashing China for withholding critical information about the virus, Chinese authors were publishing papers wherein it was made clear for example that most of the patients that had to have invasive mechanical ventilation (something like 90% or so IIRC) did not survive.

Yet every day on the Andrew Cuomo hour, on the Communist News Network, idiot Cuomo was seen pleading for ventilators: “gotta have ventilators; gotta get more ventilators, blah…blah…blah” and the U.S. “government” went into a panic buying spree wasting billions of dollars on ventilators, while the information already available in the public domain suggested that early, aggressive pharmacotherapy with nutritional, herbal and pharmaceutical products like vitamin D, vitamin C, Zinc, quercetin, hydroxychloroquine, etc., was the way forward, not ventilators. I wondered and still do if they could be so breathtakingly incompetent or if the goal actually was to maximize fatalities.

I’m not sure I agree with you about attacking China. Like all of Trump’s policies, I’m not sure if his anti Chinese rhetoric was genuine or just an aspect of psychological manipulation.

Trump’s cold-war provocations against both Russia and China were deadly serious IMO; Trump was nothing if not a risk taker, gladly risking all life on earth (IMO) to advance the “deepstate” agenda. And Trump’s politically unopposed withdrawal from the INF treaty and openly stated plans to deploy the formerly banned missiles near the borders of Russia and China should remove any remaining doubt about the evil intentions of the U.S. “government.” And as I see it, Russia and China are now both vigorously preparing for war with the U.S. So if the U.S. “government” is willing to risk nuclear war (even by accident) to have its way with the world, I have to conclude that it would unhesitatingly take lesser risks like a biowarfare attack against China, if it might advance the agenda.

I know America and China are now tied at the hip, raised up and bound by the Zionist purse. Maybe this is the moment when America gets thrown under the bus and China become the new globalist police force. But globalism is here, I fully believe, global governance is integrated at the top of the pyramid.

As I see it, “globalism” is here in the corrupt west, but some countries such as Russia and China are so far refusing to cede their sovereignty and start taking orders. I believe that China was restrained so far in retaliating to Trump’s provocations as the worst came late in his term and the Chinese government was probably hoping that relations with the U.S. would improve and get back to “normal” with Biden in the white house. Alas it seems this is not going to happen, so I expect China may soon take off the gloves.

Back in February 2020, there were videos from China of people being locked up in buildings without toilets, people falling in the streets face first into concrete, and of roads being sprayed by Xi Jinping’s white liquid. The Western élites were saying it was merely a flu.

A year later, the Western economy is dying, but there are no corpses on the ground.

If it is a conspiracy, it must be a 4D-chess Chinese Party move to scare American Christians shitless into tanking their economy and potentially to overinflate the dollar.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_recenttrends.htm

Video Link

I wondered and still do if they could be so breathtakingly incompetent or if the goal actually was to maximize fatalities

Good Q. I see at least two possibilities, non-exclusive:

1. The US is totally deaf to anything suggested by China (and Iran, Russia, etc..)

2. The US had some nefarious plan to ‘immunise’ us all, using only their mRNA vaccines, but since the ‘normal’ approval process would take too long, they went for ’emergency’ approval – which can only be granted if there’s *no* effective treatment available. Also, it’s odd that non-mRNA ‘alternative’ products are getting a very -ve press.

I’m puzzled myself, why the insistence of getting *everybody* vaccinated, why vaccination ‘privileges’ are being actively planned [perhaps no entry into English pubs without one? Good luck with that]; what ever happened to freedom of choice – also in what [unknown substance, unknown side- or any effect] one should accept into one’s body? rgds

Whistleblowers? You mean like we saw with 9-11?

Thanks for your illuminating post. From your own very small study:

SARS-CoV-2 is closest to RaTG13 in the whole genome, and RBD in SARS-CoV-2 is nearly identical with RDB in GD pangolin CoV, see figure 3 in [9], and [6]

Following to [6], Fig. 2: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7450963/figure/Fig2/
Kindly note the ‘polybasic cleavage site’ = PRRA. The MP789 is new to me, I had looked at RmYN02 before [by me once misspelt as RnYN02], but a new piece of the puzzle has been added, looks remarkably like SARS-CoV-2 could contain a mixture derived from RaTG13 (bat) and MP789 (pangolin); the Q is then: How did this mixture arise? A: AFAIK, at least two possibilities:

1. An ancestral [i.e. ‘natural’] recombination [some animal would have to be infected with both viruses at the same time so that recombination could occur in the same cell, then the result would have to be passed on into the ‘infection chain,’ IMHO highly improbable] OR

2. A man-made chimera.

My thesis is the 2nd, and I justify that by the PRRA inclusion. Consider the preceding US ‘outbreaks’ and the EVALI one in particular, IMHO these were ‘test runs’ *without* PRRA being present, [hence not highly infectious] – then PRRA was added in [using a CRISPR analog?] and the ‘ultimate’ SARS-CoV-2 was deliberately released ‘into the wild,’ *not* by/from WIV, *not* into the Wuhan wet-market, but somewhere nearby.

The rest, as they say, is history. rgds

PS The last author in the RaTG13 submission is “Shi,Z.-L.” IF she/they made SARS-CoV-2 THEN why would they publish the RaTG13 genome?

I came to the same conclusion: several natural recombinations are highly unlikely, as there was a
simple way to make a chimeric virus, which was what many people were experimenting at that time.

Since the spike ORF has insertions, I calculated the divergence time between RaTG13 and SARS-CoV-2 by first excluding the spike ORF. Random mutations must happen in the whole genome with
roughly the same rate, so this is allowed. Then I got the birth of the virus to 2002 (about), that does
not lead much chance for some other ancestors than exactly the same RaTG13 population that is in
the RaTG13 RNA, and a pangolin CoV. Very little chance for another recombination.

You asked:
“PS The last author in the RaTG13 submission is “Shi,Z.-L.” IF she/they made SARS-CoV-2 THEN why would they publish the RaTG13 genome?”

I think that they wanted to help to stop the pandemic. Assuming they made the virus and it escaped
by some mistake, then they probably wanted to stop it and decided to make RaTG13 public.
I was told, but have not checked, that RaTG13 was not in the databases before 2020, the
sample is from 2013. So, it was kept secret for research.
There are papers questioning this sample, but I see not reason to think
that there was no such sample. It is from that population that the chimeric virus was made. Probably you find the bats from some research institute.

Mr Unz makes some astonishing claims, based on too many coincidences, the kind of coincidences that would make Detective Karl Malden doubly suspicious of his prime suspect.

Mr. Unz claims not only is the USA responsible for the Covid-19 outbreak, but that prior to that event the USA was responsible for destroying a sizable portion of China’s pork and chicken meat supply.

These are certainly plausible accusations, but also deniable and deniable will always be the US position. If these astonishing accusations are true it begs the question as to why the Chinese say nothing.

We know the US taxpayer supported empire has done worse, in Argentina, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Iran, Iraq, South Ossetia, Syria, Ukraine, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen and countless other nations. But China is a nuclear and economic powerhouse. The chutzpah required to even consider such reckless behavior is mind boggling, a product of people who have completely forgotten how we ever achieved the remarkable things we have achieved. Now we are the Cosa Nostra of the planet earth, nothing less, nothing more, all the while shrouding ourselves is a fake religion, as if we are some kind of do gooder. All the while taxpayers have no clue how there money is used.

When you consider how mob bosses murdered JFK, MLK and RFK and got away with it, it begs the question who is teaching who?

I have written “medical care and life styles reduced death” so this would cover smoking.

I was told, but have not checked, that RaTG13 was not in the databases before 2020, the sample is from 2013

This is correct according to the GenBank website, and there are two versions, here is the earlier. IMHO ‘the batwoman’ published it as if to say: ‘See? No PRRA; it wasn’t me!’

The MP789 sequence I found is not complete and is not in a handy-for-me-to-use form; I will try to extract the spike and do comparisons sometime tomorrow. rgds

I think that they wanted to help to stop the pandemic. Assuming they made the virus and it escaped
by some mistake, then they probably wanted to stop it and decided to make RaTG13 public.

That’s illogical.

No one would offer evidence that would implicate themselves especially on such an important matter where trillions of reparations might be involved.

Shi published the sequence to show that their hands are clean and the “glove don’t fit”. For a virus to be the Most recent common ancestor of COVID, it needs to be 99% genetically similar. RatG13 is 96% and separated by 1200 mutations. You can come up with ad-hoc arguments to explain how RatG13 evolve to COVID but it will never satisfy the rigour that science requires.

The most logical explanation is that there is another bat or bat virus which have been in nature for awhile now that is responsible for COVID. I think will find the “missing link” soon enough. Let’s all suspend our judgement for now.

I wondered and still do if they could be so breathtakingly incompetent or if the goal actually was to maximize fatalities.

I am becoming more convinced of the latter by the day.

Britain has been turned into a giant concentration camp. People can book a travel for reasons they believe legitimate, only to be turned down and fined £5,000 a the airport if the police thinks otherwise. While major restrictions to normal life have still to be lifted, Parliament has just voted to extend Covid19 emergency powers for another 6 months.

France has re-instated a third lockdown over several regions, including the Paris area. To test the water, some epidemiologists are publicly claiming that a national lockdown is inevitable.

No doubt that our leaders are utterly incompetent, but can’t they do like stupid students and replicate what their smarter counterparts do?
Covid has been under control in China since May 2020, with everybody resuming a normal life, except for wearing masks. Haven’t our leaders had plenty of time to absorb and emulate the more successful Chinese health policies so we can get our lives back? Or are the lockdowns just a mean to an end? Is their real purpose to impose a new reality?

In this context where people have been almost trapped in the same place for over a year, the EU has just, I kid you not, voted to increase its carbon emissions cuts to 60% by 2030. This is just surreal in the context of Covid lockdowns bringing transportation to a halt. Unless that was the real plan from the start:
– Impose a new socio-economic reality (the “Reset”) upon people, with legitimised heightened state intervention.
– Use the Covid pandemic as a coercion tool to justify the above and quell any reaction.
– Use climate change as a novel imperial tool to impose a “Green” global economy, where the Globalists can still dictate the rules, who participates, who is out, who has to pay pollution taxes. The new “Right To Protect” in other words.

This is why it was so important to get Trump, a relative isolationist, out of the way.
Biden, after insulting both Putin and Xi, and in practice refusing to meet them, has just invited these two leaders to a …. Climate Summit !!
https://www.rt.com/usa/519331-biden-xi-putin-climate-summit/

All these strategies have been in the Globalists’ pipeline for a long time; Covid was just the timely, and very possibly planned enabler.

‘Losing the propaganda war’ in the West is unavoidable because ALL the fakestream media works for the Empire, and the presstitute vermin who operate it would never contemplate, let alone dare, to deviate from Imperial Goodthink.

Masks almost certainly help, but their use has been wrong-headed. Masks ought not be worn outside, unless you are about to engage in conversation with others, or are actively coughing, sneezing or running at the nose. They need to be changed regularly, or washed, or cleaned somehow. Surgical masks need to be discarded after a few hours. Masks must be made of fabrics that do not shed fibres. Protracted use without breaks leads to the breathing in of excess CO2, leading to hypercapnia. Uncleaned masks breed micro-organisms, that cause mouth problems, including caries and gingivitis, and there is an increased risk of pneumonia. In other words, a complex problem, presented, as ever, in the dullard ‘ Take it our leave it’, manner so familiar in the totalitarian West. And, further, children ought not be forced to wear them all day at school. The evidence of psychological damage from the practise is rapidly mounting.

It is ‘military’ in the sense that it is designed to hammer a country’s economy. The only problem is that the economy being pummeled is that of the virus’ creator, the USA, not the intended victim, China. ‘Blowback’ is the term I believe.

Astonishing information, which is complicated by researchers who found evidence of previously unidentified Covid-19 cases in Italy in August 2019. Although I cannot tie it to the Covid-19 outbreak, my 2019 Thanksgiving was the worst case of flu I can remember.

Masks almost certainly help…

Yes, being the most “normal” and (many claim to think) innocuous coerced superstitious ritual, they help to normalize the whole totalitarian framework.

By any other measure – physical or psychological health, at individual or public level – their harm is greater by many orders of magnitude than any possible help.

For example:

children ought not be forced to wear them all day at school. The evidence of psychological damage from the practise is rapidly mounting.

What intact human beings would call psychological damage (we can go further and call it child abuse, child molestation) is the real purpose, not collateral damage.

This is true of the psychological damage maskochism causes for adults, and far more true of how it’s a large part of the permanent indoctrination-crippling of an entire generation of children.

This generation, far more than the ad hoc stupefying and fanaticizing of the adult cohort of today, will grow up to become a generation of monsters: Psychopaths who are superstitious at the most extreme atavistic level.

I think about this often. There’s no way Whole humans can prevent this advent (assuming we still exist at all by then). The only thing humans possibly can do is try to redirect the atavistic surge to a different course, different from where the Covidian elites want it to surge, even against those elites.

This is already true of the Covidian cult masses that exist today.

The globalist-technocratic elites have summoned a demon they’ll have to struggle to keep under their control.

Is their real purpose to impose a new reality?

I am amazed that people are still asking this. It was all but explicit from the beginning. The messaging in spring 2020 was that “we have entered ‘a new normal’, and that things will never return to how they were prior to the arrival of Covid”. I can only see one way to interpret that.
Anyone who actually analysed the Covid ’emergency’ legislation could see that this was intended as an ongoing permanent seizure of power and control by the state. In five days the UK sees the merging of health response with national security as the HSA starts its work.
The Home Secretary (UK) even said quite openly (in May I think it was) that social distancing would never end.
Regardless of the details of the origin (and I still think they are important), the description of the Covid era as ‘an attack upon China that blew back’, is very misleading.
Anyone who studied the irreconcilable aspects of liberal, debt driven, fossil fuel powered, mass consumer society knew full well that it would hit the buffers at some point, either in a chaotic train wreck of anarchic breakdown or as some contrived attempt by the elite powers to maintain control.
I am fully convinced we see the latter, and that this was likely planned for decades.

Read my small study in comment 1. RaTG13 and SARS-CoV-2 are actually very close. When we remove the spike ORF and the insertions that are there, the rest of the genome is so close that the divergence time goes to about 2002. That means that the cave where the bat having RaTG13 lived had a CoV virus that has one sample RaTG13 in the year 2013. As CoVs mutate quite much, the same bat population in that cave (or a research institute) had many different mutations of this same virus, including the exact one that was used as the platform for SARS-CoV-2 and where pangolin RBD and furin cleavage site were inserted.

Notice that the pangolin RBD had to be taken from a very close relative of the one that is in the database. As the one in the database does not have furin cleavage site, the close relative could not have it. This is because had there been a longer time and two strains of this pangolin CoV where one had the cleavage site and the other did not, their RBD could not be so similar.

The same is with RaTG13. It divergence around 2002 from SARS-CoV-2, so there could not be a bat CoV with the cleavage site as the origin.

SARS-CoV-2 had to be made from very close relatives of RaTG13 and the pangolin CoV. That is the same population from around 2002.

There can be many reasons why RaTG13 was published. Maybe it was for showing clean hands, though it does not show clean hands at least to me. But maybe it was because the creator of this virus for some foreign party got pissed off that the virus was released in China and though had signed an agreement not to reveal anything, decided to give a hint. Possibly Chinese would not think in this way, but many people elsewhere have decided to be whistleblowers, but only by giving a hint.

‘the batwoman’ published it as if to say: ‘See? No PRRA; it wasn’t me!’

Maybe, but kind of strange clean hands announcement. Before they published RaTG13 it was only known that WIV has some work on gain of function on bat CoVs. No more suspicion, except for that the institute was in Wuhan.

Then they publish the closest relative to SARS-CoV-2 and they must have realized that if anybody cares to correctly calculate the divergence time (by first removing the part with insertions, as divergence time is calculated from random mutations, not from recombinations), the divergence time comes to 2002. So, RaTG13 was from the same bat population. And we know that they made gain of function research on these bat viruses. Is this not rather incriminating information? It certainly does not look like saying, see, we have nothing to do with this. It more like looks like, hey, we know where this virus came from but cannot say. Or, you will guess it anyway, so we give you a nice and false recombination theory.

then they probably wanted to stop it and decided to make RaTG13 public

No, I don’t think so; having the RaTG13 genome is about as likely to help in stopping SARS-CoV-2 as SARS-CoV-2 is a natural recombination. I’ve given my speculation but that’s all anybody [except Shi,Z.-L.&Co, say] can do.

Now, to sequences; here is the multalin comparison of the spikes of SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13, the closest known ‘relative.’ The blue marks the differences, the black the PRRA insertion:

Here is the comparison of the spikes of SARS-CoV-2 and MP789:

Your ref [6], Fig. 2 labels the receptor binding domain [= RBD] as positions 451 to 521 in the spike, and the multalin comparison does show a high agreement between SARS-CoV-2 and MP789 in this region, where the agreement between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13 in the same region is poor & so QED; MP789 could well have contributed its RBD to the putative chimera. But there’s a but; namely the agreement between SARS-CoV-2 and MP789 outside of the RBD is much poorer than the general match to RaTG13, but then no matter. You said you think a possible MRCA could be dated to about 2002 [your birth of the virus], IF so THEN it means that there must have been a continuous chain of infection in some animal, presumably bat or pangolin from ~2002 to late 2019. Again, just how likely is that? Also, where did the bat and pangolin meet and afterwards reside? One last thing; IIRC, the Chinese assert that neither bats nor pangolins were sold in any wet market; IMHO the wet market slur is a furphy. rgds

I am fully convinced we see the latter, and that this was likely planned for decades.

The same has been said in France’s alternative political circles for years now.

One of France’s most powerful oligarchy representative, in charge with the long-term prospective and planning, is sayan Jacques Attali. He does not hide that his loyalty primarily goes to Israel, despite spending his life devising and imposing far-reaching agendas shaping French people’s lives. He is pictured below with President Macron.

In a 2009 newspaper op-ed, Attali stated the following:

a major pandemic will then raise, better than no humanitarian or ecological discourse, the awareness of the need for altruism, at least interested.

[..] we must not forget, as with the economic crisis, to learn from it, so that before the next – inevitable – pandemic, prevention and control mechanisms are put in place, as well as logistical processes for the equitable distribution of medicines and vaccines. This will require a global police force, global storage and therefore global taxation. This will be the case, much faster than the economic reason alone, to lay the foundations for a true world government.

https://aphadolie.com/2020/03/15/jacques-attali-une-pandemie-permettra-la-mise-en-place-des-bases-dun-veritable-gouvernement-mondial-video/

So there is good reason to suspect that Covid19 is being used to precipitate and crystallise a new form of international relations, since the scenario of a pandemic being used as enabling trigger was publicly evoked by the Globalists themselves.

Similarly, the Davos “Great Reset of Capitalism” plan came too early, in June 2020, and was too far-reaching in time and scope. It wasn’t a spur -of-the-moment idea: why did they assume the pandemic would be so lethal as to disturb economy on the long-term, how did they know the virus wouldn’t die out, or that the public Heath measures wouldn’t work, or that vaccines wouldn’t bring back normality?

I can but go back to the Chinese glaringly-opposing example on one hand: pandemic swiftly addressed and tackled, and life back to normal within 5 months.

Versus Western continued fear-mongering, prolonged failure at restoring normal life, and worsening socio-economic conditions. Is this really by chance, or by design?

Should we be discussing the Great Reset of Capitalism, instead of arguing about covid19 which is only its enabler?

“namely the agreement between SARS-CoV-2 and MP789 outside of the RBD is much poorer than the general match to RaTG13, but then no matter. ”

This does not matter. The two possibilities are that a natural recombination took MP789 RBD and in other parts followed a virus that was close (but not identical) to RaTG13, or that a genetic engineer did the same.

“You said you think a possible MRCA could be dated to about 2002 [your birth of the virus], IF so THEN it means that there must have been a continuous chain of infection in some animal, presumably bat or pangolin from ~2002 to late 2019.”

Thanks Iris. I was already a bit worried when I did not find the same culprit as always
from Covid-19. But this website can always be counted on to put this thing right.
And indeed, why should this time be any different than any other time.

Is their real purpose to impose a new reality?

I am amazed that people are still asking this. It was all but explicit from the beginning.

I would have to disagree. It wasn’t “all but explicit from the beginning” exactly what their plans were, especially their long-term plans. And for that matter it still isn’t clear what role SARS-CoV-2 was (or is now) intended to play and how many things may or may not have gone as expected.

Don’t forget, we’re dealing with “people” here who aren’t just evil, but ignorant, arrogant, incompetent, delusional and increasingly desperate.

That said, I believe Iris is correct to infer that they wanted to maximize domestic casualties, real or imagined, perhaps as part of their propaganda campaign to demonize China, their latest existential enemy du jour.

The messaging in spring 2020 was that “we have entered ‘a new normal’, and that things will never return to how they were prior to the arrival of Covid”. I can only see one way to interpret that.
Anyone who actually analysed the Covid ’emergency’ legislation could see that this was intended as an ongoing permanent seizure of power and control by the state.

Perhaps, but it’s far from clear (to me at least) how lockdowns and forcing Joe and Jill Sixpack and the kids to wear masks will somehow assist them in their apparent goal of taking down Russia, China and Iran for example.

Here I examine the ethnic composition of quite possibly the most influential global organization transforming our world today and its plan to restructure the planet: The World Economic Forum

from:
https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2021/03/26/the-not-so-friendly-folks-at-the-world-economic-forum/
(Note link in the article to another, which details the representation within BLMGF, Pfizer, Moderna, etc.)
The UK originated company Serco is right in there too, run by Churchill’s grandson and with strong ties to the British crown.

there are five inserts in SARS-CoV-2 from RaTG13

Do you have a link describing this? Thanks in advance.

A summary: Let’s say we agree that the progenitor of SARS-CoV-2 diverged from RaTG13 sometime around 2002, was taken ‘from the wild’ into some lab and may have had the MP789 RBD inserted as late as sometime in 2019 [possibly in WIV], also that the ‘polybasic (furin) cleavage site’ PRRA was added in ‘by hand’ [by persons unknown] in the creation of the ‘current’ SARS-CoV-2 chimera.

Additionally, that the RaTG13 genome was published as some sort of self-defence action by WIV/Dr Shi.

You say it’s more likely that the chimera was ‘accidentally released’ from WIV, I maintain it’s more likely that it was a deliberate release and *not* from WIV.

Anything to add? rgds

Regarding ‘due dilligence’, mentioned above, I wonder if Ron would do well to read this by Niels Harrit (of 9/11 research renown), as I found it pretty clarifying:
https://off-guardian.org/2021/03/27/making-something-out-of-nothing-pcr-tests-ct-values-and-false-positives/

Also, Kevin, did Josh Mitteldorf ever get back to you about the excess deaths disputes mentioned in your interview with him Dec 28 2020 ? I have not time to listen through it again, but I seem to remember he knew someone who had a ‘reveal’ about exactly how the CDC’s algorithm counts ‘excess deaths’, that many might find suprising..?

Yes, you must compare more than a few years back.
Deaths per 1000, was higher than some previous years.
But you don’t have to go that far back to see, that 2020 wasn’t that exceptional.
The curious thing though, is that there was a significant peak of deaths in march/april 2020.
That fact, together with down-sized ICU-capacity, created a over-strained situation in some countries.
Add to that reluctance in seeking healthcare out of fear, and also the fact that people had to wait longer to get planned treatment, along with other lock-down side-effects, death figures increase.
I’m not ruling out several scenarios, though, especially the Iran case being strange.

If one for a moment leave the different covid1984 minutiae, this is what it’s all about!

Perhaps, but it’s far from clear (to me at least) how lockdowns and forcing Joe and Jill Sixpack and the kids to wear masks will somehow assist them in their apparent goal of taking down Russia, China and Iran for example.

IMHO, the Globalists’ deluded goal to take down a Eurasian-centred alliance is only one out of their two biggest problems.

The other, possibly more urgent driver is the US financial architecture failing beyond the point of being rescued by the FED “pretend and extend” monetary strategies.
Was the Sept 2019 repurchase agreement (repo) crisis the signal of imminent recession that activated the Covid plan? It would have been great being a fly on the wall during their last Bilderberg meeting, and spy on the real figures they discussed, as public key economic indicators such as inflation and GDP are undoubtedly fake.

Covid19 too is like a war to our rulers, except that it is a war where they take down their “own” working people and middle classes, not China.

The results of the Covid19 lockdowns will be to cut several points of GDP, giving room for some future “growth” , cull all of the unfortunate small business entrepreneurship lured by the “Greenspan-put” artificially low interest rates, strengthen monopolies, and prepare a clean slate for the banking industry so it can erase its criminal activity since 2008.

The oligarchy risked losing grip; it will take back control of a tighter ship where people will be silenced by new taxes, new restrictions to mobility, higher unemployment, lower living standards, a whole new grim reality all enabled by Covid19.

The West has lost the GDP battle to the Rest of the World, lead by China, back in 2015 already, when the latter’s combined GDPs exceeded 50% of global total aggregate.

Instead of fighting back and work hard like the Chinese do, and as it run out of easy preys to invade and plunder, the oligarchy has decided to turn against Western people, and impose a new reality upon them to maintain its domination position. Everything must change so nothing changes, to quote Giuseppe Tomasi Di Lampedusa.

As they are not capable of taking over the Eurasian block, I bet that they will propose a sort of split-globalisation, where only countries vetted by Western “democracies” on the basis of human rights, climate and other woke nonsense, will be allowed to partake and trade.

The opposing block clearly does not give two hoots: China and Iran have just signed a 25-years strategic partnership.

https://www.rt.com/news/519382-iran-china-strategic-agreement/

Javad Zarif and Wang Yi have just officially signed the 🇮🇷Iran-China🇨🇳 25-year strategic partnership agreement. pic.twitter.com/Bl4pr22gDK

— ☕️ (@hassan_yazdi) March 27, 2021

Thanks. This is an important article that everybody should read.

The Davos World Economic Forum, who appointed itself as mandatory guide in charge with defining humankind’s roadmap through the future, is managed by a board essentially formed of Israelis and Israel lackeys.

https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2021/03/26/the-not-so-friendly-folks-at-the-world-economic-forum/

It is true that the globalist oligarchs are preparing to transition from a US-run system to Chinese, and that covid is cover to put the Western populations on a war footing. However, contra the delusions of Team China retards, this has nothing to do with the glorious power of the house that Mao built. It’s simply because that’s what the banking clan that controls both countries wants. They’ve sucked the US dry and now need to jump ship. I’m sure when China welcomes them with open arms the Ron-bots here will come up with a suitable rationalization.

Indeed. And do you think these people are hostile towards the CCP in any real way?

Dear Mr Unz,

I think the fundamental difference between us is that I am at the last fifth of my useful life – and I have 3 kids who are 40-55 years younger than I am. I suspect your situation is entirely different.

Mr Putin put it very nicely when he explained recently how people imagine that others are like themselves. You are doing that. But so am I.

You believe that the value of life of a person who is about to die for multiple reasons the same as that of a much younger, healthy, person. I don’t. In view of this, we are bound to disagree about how to measure the impact of this virus.

“We always see in another person our own qualities and think that they are the same as us,” Putin said in televised remarks.

President Vladimir Putin has brushed aside comments by US President Joe Biden, who said he thought the Russian leader was a killer

“there are five inserts in SARS-CoV-2 from RaTG13
Do you have a link describing this? Thanks in advance.”

I wrote a bit imprecisely, it should be five inserts or deletions, as I wrote in the paper
The three insertions are in the spike ORF: RBD, RRAR and PRRA
“SARS-CoV-2 seems to have an RBD that binds with high affinity to ACE2 from humans, ferrets, cats and other species with high receptor homology7.”
“The second notable feature of SARS-CoV-2 is a polybasic cleavage site (RRAR) at the junction of S1 and S2, the two subunits of the spike8 (Fig. 1b). This allows effective cleavage by furin and other proteases and has a role in determining viral infectivity and host range12. In addition, a leading proline is also inserted at this site in SARS-CoV-2; thus, the inserted sequence is PRRA ”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

The two deletions are in ORF1AB and the link is
“The statistics of the alignment results (Table 1) show that most of the ORFs are well aligned and only ORF1AB has two gaps”
https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/fvl-2020-0066

Inserts and deletions are similar errors in RNA replication.

There is a bit more to add. SARS-CoV-2 strains divergence time is calculated as November 2019, but
there is evidence that some very similar virus was around earlier in 2019. It has been claimed that the polybasis cleavage site was obtained later in human to human transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

When the Bush administration declared that ‘the world is a global battlefield’ back in 2001, many people interpretted that as a self issued licence for the ‘US empire’ to wage war whenever, and wherever it suited. One could also have seen it as Israel’s full capture of the US machine, dividing the world between those who are “with us” (i.e. with Israel) and those “against us” (i.e. with the rest of the world) – national borders and laws be damned. Even twenty years ago, the age of genuine American nationalism was long ended.
I am not convinced that the powers want to ‘take down Russia or China’, in fact their interests seem just as interwoven in those parts of the globe as they are in Europe or North America. The world has merged into one system under a technological management. The ship in the Suez could have been hacked by ….well…just about anybody. In a world where anyone, anywhere can be singled out and remotely killed, with it being very hard to even determine who did it, the concepts of national rivalry strike me as obsolete.
So here we are discussing whether “”the USA”” tried to attack “”China”” with a bioweapon like the sort which the US bioweapon establishment were researching in Chinese laboratories….?

The CDC has instructed hospitals, medical examiners, coroners and physicians to collect and report COVID-19 data by significantly different standards than all other infectious diseases and causes of death.

These new and unnecessary guidelines were instituted by the CDC in private, and without open discussion among qualified professionals that are free from conflicts of interest.

These new and unnecessary guidelines were additionally instituted despite the existence of effective rules for data collection and reporting, successfully used by all hospitals, medical examiners, coroners, and physicians for more than 17 years.

As a result, elected officials have enacted many questionable policies that have injured our country’s economy, our country’s educational system, our country’s mental and emotional health, and the American citizen’s personal expression of Constitutionally-protected rights to participate in our own governance.

This paper will present significant evidence to support the position that if the CDC simply employed their 2003 industry standard for data collection and reporting, which has been successfully used nationwide for 17 years; the total fatalities attributed to COVID-19 would be reduced by an estimated 90.2%, and questions would be non-existent regarding schools reopening and whether or not Americans should be allowed to work.

If COVID Fatalities Were 90.2% Lower, How Would You Feel About Schools Reopening?

If what Wittkowski says is correct, and I have no reason to doubt him, lockdowns will lead to more new strains and then more lockdowns. With every iteration, the newly mutated virus will become less distinguishable from the human genome. When that happens, our immune system will become ineffective. The good news is that even Bill Gates will perish. 🙂

“The Lockdowns Are Creating a New Virus. Then We Have a New Epidemic.” — Dr Knut Wittkowski

Video Link

In the way of a quick response [while I analyse your new input], I note this:

For instance, SARS-1 is supposed to have the intermediate host palm civet, but the bat virus does not infect civets, so how did it get to the intermediate host?

I asked a similar Q above about bats vs. pangolins:

Also, where did the bat and pangolin meet and afterwards reside?

A possible answer to that Q was given earlier by you yourself, when you used “GD pangolin;” The MP789 was entered into GenBank: MT084071.1 by an organisation based in Guangdong. I don’t know anything more about any bat-pangolin relationship than that [except that it looks like a good ‘diversity’ example!]

Back to bats vs. civets, this [no offence meant to anybody]:

Right there the key is already there, the “palm” civet. What are common between the bat and palm civet? They both feed on the surgary palm sap. Who else feed on the palm sap? Hundreds of million of people in South Asia, South East Asia and Oceania who collected the palm sap in “open jar” up on the palm trees. In India alone, if 10% are palm wine drinkers that will be more than 100 million people

Sounds like a wild party including exchange of bodily fluids [only slightly Joe King]. The most likely answer is of course: All happening in a biowarfare lab.

So now off to work, could be sometime [also w/e], thanks again. rgds

with a bioweapon like the sort which the US bioweapon establishment were researching in Chinese laboratories….?

IIRC, I read a rumour somewhere that said that somebody who the C’s might refer to as ‘Fow Chi’ was off-shoring ‘gain of function’ research. Who pays the piper can get a kickback, here quite possibly ‘live’ samples, to be transhipped via Fort Detrick, say [for a PRRA insertion *precisely* where it will do the most damage, me hardly Joe King]. rgds

You believe that the value of life of a person who is about to die for multiple reasons the same as that of a much younger, healthy, person. I don’t. In view of this, we are bound to disagree about how to measure the impact of this virus.

Dear Alfred, there is nothing subjective in this appreciation of the value of a life.

If somebody decides to get drunk, recklessly drives their car under influence and knocks an 80-year old dead, they wouldn’t get away with it by claiming it didn’t matter since the victim was “in the last quarter of their life”.

This whole eugenic debate is a disgrace and the sign that our civilisation is deeply ill: elderly people have a fundamental role to play in the psycho-emotional balance of any family, we need them in our lives. Not caring about their well-being is the sign that our societies are reverting towards barbarism.

What is wrong and suspicious with Covid mitigation measures is that the most vulnerable are perfectly identified by now. Governments could be shielding those specifically, but choose instead to stop life and punish the entire society. Schools closure in particular is simply criminal, and there is no end in sight since any idiot like wannabee-dictator Boris Johnson can claim, just like that on the top of his head, that a new virus strain is 7 (!!) times more harmful than its predecessor.

Hilarious impersonation of Biden below; there is a method in his displayed cognitive distress.

Dana Carvey’s Biden is A+. He’s so cool. pic.twitter.com/0f0gmYC85Y

— Rob Delaney (@robdelaney) March 24, 2021

If what Wittkowski says is correct, and I have no reason to doubt him, lockdowns will lead to more new strains and then more lockdown

The vaccines will create new virus strains, too; that’s expected and undisputable.

And do you think these people are hostile towards the CCP in any real way?

We can honestly answer this question by comparing China to the Globalists’ real-life ideal vassality model: Russia in the 1990’s under Boris Yeltsin.

Do the Globalists control China’s currency and financial commodities? No.
Do they control China’s financial flows? No.
Do they control China’s wealth production process? No, since their capital invested is limited, and has become actually dispensable.
Do they control China’s strategic planning? No, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many NATO-sponsored Al Qaeda terrorist groups popping up by magic at every planned RBI outpost.
Do they control China’s geopolitical goals? No, since China is clearly in a historic alliance with the Globalist’s arch-enemy, Putin’s Russia.
Do they control China’s military capabilities? No, China has surpassed the US in the type of novel weapons it designs and produces. Her lead in space exploration is an indirect but infallible indicator.

The Globalists do not and cannot control China, but they tolerated her economic ascent as long as they could invest and benefit from it.

The turning point occurred probably when China sided with Russia at the UNSC to stop multi-shaped international intervention against the Syrian government and vetoed its resolutions, 14 times so far I think.

Although the USA is their principal power vector and apparent figurehead, the Globalists have a deeper, stronger Israeli component amongst them, and will never tolerate any competing agenda in the Middle-East. Control over the ME is THE ultimate standard by which political standpoints and intentions can be measured.

China became an overt geopolitical enemy first when it openly sided with Syria, and furthermore later on when it got strategically involved in the development of Iran.

These are not just speculations, since the Globalists are themselves designating China as a power threatening the “US”-led world order:

The foremost goal of US strategy should be to cause China’s ruling elites to conclude that it is in China’s best interests to continue operating within the US-led liberal international order rather than building a rival order, and that it is in the Chinese Communist Party’s best interests to not attempt to expand China’s borders or export its political model beyond China’s shores.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/atlantic-council-strategy-paper-series/the-longer-telegram/

Dear Alfred, there is nothing subjective in this appreciation of the value of a life

Dear Iris,

If Americans and others in the West consign their parents to places to die that are euphemistically called “nursing homes”, that suggests that there is a great deal of hypocrisy going on.

It is no secret at all that in all hospitals doctors make a bigger effort to save the life of a person who is young. In many countries, the elderly or their nearest can elect to have a “Do Not Resuscitate” order.

I really don’t know why you label what is obvious to all as “eugenics”. It is nothing of the sort. It is common sense. There is absolutely no way to stop it.

You refer to my comment. I do not write rubbish and bioengineering is not that difficult a topic, much less than mathematics. If you cannot do it, it does not prove anything. Regards, j2

I am not convinced that the powers want to ‘take down Russia or China’…

LOL! You don’t expect to make a statement like this and still be taken seriously, do you?

utu=unz

Wouldn’t surprise me. This whole site is one big psy-op.

LOL, the globalists “tolerate” China’s economic “ascent” because they engineered it. I guess China’s support for Syria involves, like Russia’s, letting Israel bomb it (and the Americans sanction it) with impunity. And I’m still waiting for an example of globalist hostility to China because the article you linked to was written by an anonymous “former senior government official”. Yeah, right.

It’s just shocking how brain-dead you people are. You’re really incapable of distinguishing opposition to the US Empire with pro-China agit-prop.

LOL! You don’t expect to make a statement like this and still be taken seriously, do you?

Is that an attempt to convince me ?
You know that Montagu Norman and Hjalmar Schacht were pals, and that they met several times during the war for cigars and cognac in Switzerland?
(https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tower-Basel-Shadowy-History-Secret/dp/1610393813%5D

‘The government of all is the financial government, the power of money and of money alone’.

– O Mosely

War, in large part is a device for re-arranging global affairs. Even if American elites were deluded to think that they can win a war against either China or Russia, surely that option is simply off the table in the age of such weaponry.
Hence we have something else : a global ‘reset’.

I don’t have any professional expertise in bioengineering so it’s difficult for me to evaluate these contending claims, and since I’m an honest person, I don’t claim that I can.

Do you have any expertise in public health policy, epidemiology or virology ? What about international affairs, biowarfare or military strategy?

Personally I am glad that you feel entitiled to write articles which touch on all those subjects, they are often good reads.

‘Let’s leave it to the experts’ hasn’t worked out so well my estimation.

I guess China’s support for Syria involves, like Russia’s, letting Israel bomb it (and the Americans sanction it) with impunity.

Well, you could go even further with this logic of yours: doesn’t Russia herself “tolerate” Israel bombing Syria for years, while its has Russian military personnel, both governmental and private on the ground?

In 2018, didn’t Russia “tolerate” Israel deliberately interposing its planes between a Russian IL20 and Syrian ground-air defences, resulting in 14 invaluable Russian professional military being killed in seconds?

Didn’t Russia “tolerate” in 2015 NATO-allied Turkey shooting down a Russian Su-25 jet that was flying over Syrian territory, without any apparent reaction?

Maybe I am brain-dead, and may be you are just as ignorant as I am, since you essentially insult people and don’t propose any alternative worldview to matters us the public is not privy to.
Feel free to contribute with something instructive instead.

LOL, the globalists “tolerate” China’s economic “ascent” because they engineered it.

Of course they “engineered” it, just like they engineered the creation of Hezbollah; Iran’s increasingly sophisticated domestic arms industry; Russia’s new generation of missile, anti missile and EW technology; China’s new weapons systems; etc. Practically everything the “globalists” do in pursuit of world domination and control ultimately fails or backfires on them; that’s the nature of evil and there are many examples of it.

And I’m still waiting for an example of globalist hostility to China…

Publicly blaming China for Covid-19 without any evidence isn’t a hostile act against China in your view? Selling arms to Taiwan isn’t a hostile act against China in your view? Blacklisting Huawei isn’t a hostile act against China in your view? Surrounding China with more missiles isn’t a hostile act against China in your view?

It’s just shocking how brain-dead you people are.

You’re supposed to be looking at your monitor, not your mirror, as you type your infantile drivel.

LOL! You don’t expect to make a statement like this and still be taken seriously, do you?

Is that an attempt to convince me ?

Of course not; it’s just a way of pointing out that you’re a troll.

What point do you think you’re making here? No shit, Russia “tolerates” all that because they’re under the control of the same globalist banking clan and is a worthless ally against the Americans (or at a minimum they’re too weak to do anything about it, making your crowing about China’s alliance with them even more laughable). Again, you’re confusing squabbles over minor issues with major conflicts.

“they are professional liars. and until proved otherwise, i’m going to assume that unz is one too: very much ‘one of them’, very much ‘a part of it’…

That’s right. Unz with his lies, damn lies, and statistics…

I come here to glean some truth from the comments. At least you can rest assured that the rat Unz was first in line for the injection- like his cowardly brethren in the mother country.

If a pangolin goes horseshoe, that is most likely to happen in a country where bat soup is a delicacy and scaly anteaters are thought to have aphrodisiac qualities. Rich Chinese pay good money for both

J2 thinks Gustafsson was innocent of the the Lake Bodom murders

Russia “tolerates” that most likely because their leaders (unlike their Western counterparts) actually care about their country and understand that a shooting war with the U.S. could quickly become a nuclear war. Thus they likely don’t want to risk it until their new S-500 air-defense system and a few other game changing weapon systems are deployed.

Of course not; it’s just a way of pointing out that you’re a troll.

Ha ha , the old ones are the good ones.

Try formulating an actual argument instead, it’s all the rage.

Of course not; it’s just a way of pointing out that you’re a troll.

Ha ha , the old ones are the good ones.

Try formulating an actual argument instead, it’s all the rage.

I guess my point went over your head. You’re a troll; therefore, I don’t need to “formulate an actual argument” since there is nothing to argue about with a troll such as yourself any more than there is anything to argue about with a pile of rocks, for example.

If a pangolin goes horseshoe, that is most likely to happen in a country where bat soup is a delicacy and scaly anteaters are thought to have aphrodisiac qualities.

I don’t believe bat soup is a delicacy in China. The pictures of bat soup that circulated last year were of Chinese tourists in Palau, where it is a local delicacy.

MERS was a bat virus originally. It got into camels and MERS originated in Arabia. SARS, MERS, and Covid-19 were all bat viruses, they had the spike proteins from civets, camels and pangolins, respectively.

“J2 thinks Gustafsson was innocent of the the Lake Bodom murders ”

I think the Finnish police is very often correct, but the case did not hold in the court. Gustafsson was found innocent. I have not made my own study on that topic, there is no new evidence and nothing to reason by logical thinking. The simple drunken anger theory of the police seemed very possible, but if did not hold.

“I don’t have any professional expertise in bioengineering so it’s difficult for me to evaluate these contending claims, and since I’m an honest person, I don’t claim that I can.”

Take any small topic and study that small topic for a while and you can deduce from small number of facts, i.e., claims that are so strong that they can be trusted to be correct, like the differences in RNA between RaTG13 and an early sample of SARS-CoV-2, that you can find from literature and check by several similar comparisons. Then learn just enough that you need to deduce logically what you try to deduce. This does not require you to be a bioengineering expert. To say that you are a honest person if you do not care to check a small argument on the pretext that you do not know the whole field, is nonsense.

“However, many, many Internet commenters like to *pretend* that they know much more than they do, so after reading a few articles and learning some jargon, they make these sorts of arguments to people who are probably no more ignorant than themselves.”

Who is *pretending* to know much more than they do? The argument is simple and can be followed and checked by those people who are probably no more ignorant than themselves.

“Unless some of the people on this thread claim to be professional microbiologists or virologists, why should anyone take a word they say seriously?”

if the CDC simply employed their 2003 industry standard for data collection and reporting, which has been successfully used nationwide for 17 years; the total fatalities attributed to COVID-19 would be reduced by an estimated 90.2%,

Do we know if Brazil is using the same allegedly flawed CDC methodology?

“Record deaths from Covid-19 are ‘worst genocide’ in Brazil’s history, and President Bolsonaro is to blame – ex-leader Lula
26 Mar, 2021 12:01 ”
https://www.rt.com/news/519262-lula-bolsonaro-brazil-genocide/

Perhaps somebody should teach Brazil your ‘proper’ way to count? rgds

they had the spike proteins from civets, camels and pangolins, respectively

Got any proof? Re-hashing a bit, if you’d care to examine my multalin result-images in #100 above, you might be able to see that the SARS-CoV-2 spike is almost identical to that of RaTG13 (bat), with the main exception of the RBD [= receptor binding domain, positions 451 to 521], which in turn is almost identical to the corresponding positions in MP789 (pangolin). So it’s hardly correct to say that the SARS-CoV-2 spike is from a pangolin, just a somewhat critical bit. The SARS-CoV-2 spike is 1273 units long, the BIG Q is how did the pangolin RBD [71 units] get into the exact, correct spot in SARS-CoV-2? If you manage to solve that riddle, your next task could be to explain how the PRRA sequence just happened to ‘pop’ into – ta ra! Again, the exact, right spot to form a ‘polybasic (furin) cleavage site?’ In case you don’t know [but would like to], it is the PRRA inclusion that makes SARS-CoV-2 so deadly infectious.

Disclosure: I am not a virologist, merely an amateur trying to follow available facts as best I can. rgds

We are talking about the Covid -19 virus because it has caused a global pandemic and a huge number of deaths. That it is near optimum at causing a pandemic, is necessarily true, otherwise what would there be to talk about?

The SARS-CoV-2 spike is 1273 units long, the BIG Q is how did the pangolin RBD [71 units] get into the exact, correct spot in SARS-CoV-2?

I do not exactly know. But I would not think that it is very dissimilar to the way the camel component got into MERS, and the civet one got into SARS.

PRRA inclusion that makes SARS-CoV-2 so deadly infectious.

Putting aside specific technical detail, the tenor and meaning of your arguments would apply to MERS. A camel is a very strange animal to use in a bioweapon that was to be used in China with the cover story that it originated there. Also, MERS (2012) was initially identified in South Korea and traced to Arabia. If MERS was a naturally occurring bat coronavirus that arose as a pathogen in humans in the Middle East with input from a an animal relatively common there, it becomes less far fetched to think that Covid-19 having a pangolin component in a bat coronavirus is the result of a natural event (that occurred without any humans having caused it with the deliberate intent of creating a bioweapon). One final point, the received wisdom in 2002 was that Chinese growth was going to stall, and if the SARS pandemic of that year was a US covert biowar operation one wonders what the motive could possibly have been.

That’s a plausible theory Kevin. Although if that’s the idea it may not work out as well in the end as they’d like because it seems that political resistance to lock-downs and mask-mandates is on the rise at the state level.

I was thinking that they might also want to maximize hardship on the peasantry to build enmity against China as they escalate their increasingly risky broad-spectrum provocations: Don’t like it that Covid-19 killed your grandparents? Blame China. Don’t like it that you lost your job or had your hours cut? Blame China. Don’t like the lock-downs? Blame China. Don’t like wearing a mask? Blame China. Etc.

Anyway, my present view of the whole situation is that the virus was released on purpose in the U.S. by a high level deep state agent (formerly known as a “rogue” agent) and then brought to Wuhan by military personnel who were deliberately infected shortly before their trip to Wuhan and likely had no idea that they were infected (Ron’s theory about this is also plausible IMO).

As I see it, the “high level” agent(s) likely released the virus here in the summer of 2019 in order to obviate any resistance from any lower level deep state agents who might not like the idea, a la “see, it’s already circulating here and causing casualties, now we have nothing to lose and potentially lots to gain by sending it to China and claiming that it originated there blah blah blah.”

And as a benefit of spreading the virus at the military games, European attendees would be infected and bring the virus home and that would help to spread it around the world (which would assist in pursuit of the goal that China would become the target of worldwide animosity).

The same high level agent(s) might be responsible for getting the CDC to shut down Ft. Detrick for some unrelated and possibly contrived issue as gist for a limited hangout/red herring distraction, allowing for plausible deniability (of calculated evil) thus offering a choice of incompetence for so-inclined conspiracy theorists and governments who need excuses to avoid confrontation.

SARS-CoV is not so clear yet. SARS-CoV can replicate in palm civets and 80% of
palm civets in wet markets had SARS-CoV, but palm civets in civet farms mostly did not
have the virus. Civets came to markets from farms, but it is speculated that they get infected
on the way to markets or at markets. However, the bat virus which originally jumped to
civets has not been found as the most similar horseshoe bat virus does not infect civets.
The alternative theory is that SARS-CoV was also made in a lab and civet was used as the
intermediate host, then in some way some infected civets were sold in the markets and
this started the civet epidemic in markets.

Many dromedards have MERS CoV and can infect humans with MERS. Dromedards have been
in use in the Middle East since 1100 BC and longer in Central Asia. They started to have MERS
around 2012. It is totally unknown where from and how they got MERS CoV. Chinese horseshoe
bat CoV is again closest to MERS-CoV, but not so close that it could be shown to be the source
of this camel epidemic. An alternative explanation is that MERS CoV is man-made in a lab and
camels turned out the only animal where this virus could replicate, apart of humans (it does not
much infect human to human). So, strange lab animal or not, if that was the only one that worked.

None of these three seem to be ancient viruses in camels, civets or pangolins that accidentally
jumped to humans recently. They are all recent viruses in all these animals, and in the case of
pangolins it is not even shown that any pangolin has SARS-CoV-2. You must assume two recent
jumps, first a recent jump to the intermediate host, then a recent jump to humans. And the time
to add the furin cleavage site to MERS and SARS-CoV-2 is very short indeed.

I especially like the idea that accidentally a camel run out of the lab and
run all the way to the Middle East, so if, these viruses are man-made, it
was not accidental release. If one was man-made, the most probably two
were man-made, and likely all three. It makes no sense that when researchers
started studying these viruses, there came three new zoonotic viruses.

The same high level agent(s) might be responsible for getting the CDC to shut down Ft. Detrick for some unrelated and possibly contrived issue as gist for a limited hangout/red herring distraction,

Agree. But more importantly, the high level/rogue/”minority” state agents who decided to cause a global pandemic needed to cover their back for the future, vis-à-vis the “majority”, legalist and rational US institutions who had nothing to do with it.

By seeding the USA first with SARS-Cov2, and letting the “FD leak” story filter through to the media, the “minority” rogue elements implicated and trapped, against their will and knowledge, the “majority” of the US state institutions, obliging them to walk along in the larger conspiracy against China and the world.

This blackmail and double-crossing was only possible because the US was reckless enough to research bio-weapons in the first place. All the “rogue” state agents needed in order to trap the US legalist government was one individual’s access to FD to get hold of the virus, and a handful of trained operatives to spread it so as any serious retrospective researches would show, at minimum, that Covid was prevalent in America before reaching China.

From retrospective Covid serology studies and the EVALI syndrome records, one can guess that the virus was introduced in the US around mid-July 2019, mostly spread in the West Coast, and in the East Coast to a lesser extent.

This modus operandi by double-crossing and implication by association is a common pattern.

When the Israelis decided to execute JFK, a number of Americans loyalist to him, including possibly RFK himself, were tricked into believing they were taking part in a secret abort mission to protect him and prevent an assassination.
Meanwhile, the real assassination operation was entirely and separately managed by the Israel party. The result is that the former were not in a position to accuse or speak up against the latter.

Similarly for 9/11. When the NeoCons decided to enact a new Pearl Harbour justifying the War on Terror, it seems that the initial goals were modest: bombing the Pentagon and possibly a limited bombing of the WTC.
But the “minority” among them secretly had more ambitious views. They took it upon themselves to hit the Pentagon with a de-activated nuclear-headed missile, which, coupled with Mossad’s deliberate false information that the Twin Towers had been rigged with nuclear charges too, lead to a fatal escalation.
In order to protect the larger New-York city, a nuclear emergency procedure to activate an embedded demolition feature was put in motion by hapless but decent civil servants who were not part of the conspiracy whatsoever and had no no intention to kill anybody.

Finally, the “minority” involved in the Covid scheme duly performed virtue-signalling and innocence-signalling as needed to show who, apart from China, looked a guilty party.
A week after the Pentagon denied the existence of the NCMI report exposing foreknowledge of Covid, sources within Israeli intelligence conveniently confirmed that the report indeed existed and was transmitted to them, all but accusing the Pentagon of lying, and all but accusing the US of covering up its foreknowledge of the Covid pandemic.
As another UR commenter put it, a betrayal worse than the USS Liberty’s .

That’s possible, but is there real evidence that any members of the American military contingent were actually infected (as opposed to providing cover for a couple of healthy operatives)?

I’ve been looking, and I can’t find any such evidence, so it is pure speculation on my part.

The typical account floating around the Internet notes that something like five participants were sick during the games, but there doesn’t seem evidence they were American, and with thousands of military servicemen participating during the height of flu season, it’s hardly surprising that five got sick. There’s no sign that any of them had Covid-19.

There are news stories like the following, from which I infer that many participants got sick with Covid-19 while in attendance at the games or shortly after returning home, but for some reason it seems that Western governments aren’t very interested in investigating it. (And for the reason I mention below, the number of athletes sickened might be less than we might at first expect).

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3932712

Also, since Covid-19 is *exceptionally* contagious, if members of the American team had been infected, wouldn’t they have passed it on to a very large number of the other participants during the week or two that they were all together, often at close quarters, producing a huge outbreak. But as far as I can tell, nothing like that happened.

Nothing that we are allowed to know about at least. After all, being that the “government” won’t even identify the pathogen responsible for the “mysterious” outbreaks at the retirement homes in Virginia; and being that the affected residents and staff, their families, and the health care personnel involved in the outbreaks don’t seem eager to volunteer any information, I don’t expect we will hear very much about any illness among the U.S. participants in the games at Wuhan. They seem to have a way of keeping such things under wraps.

Being that you raised the question, here is a theory of mine which might explain why there might not have been a massive outbreak among the athletes (an outbreak so huge that they couldn’t have kept it under wraps). Of course this is very speculative, but here it is:

Lots of athletes apparently take nutritional supplements which boost nitric oxide levels; supplements such as L-arginine and L-citrulline.

“Athletes often turn to nutritional supplements in order to maintain health and maximize athletic performance [1]. Among them, proteins and amino acids represent the most consumed ergogenic aids, with a frequency of 35–40% [2]. However, the use of nutritional supplements with vasodilatory function are increasing considerably in the sport field, given that there is strong evidence that its intake has a positive effect on athletic performance [3,4,5]. In this sense, although nitrate and beetroot juice are the most studied vasodilatory supplements in this field [6,7], arginine (Arg) is an amino acid that has shown a vasodilator effect because it participates in the synthesis and bioavailability of nitric oxide (NO) [4,8]. For this reason, Arg supplementation has been used by athletes in order to obtain improvements in athletic performance [9,10,11,12].”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7282262/

And nitric oxide has been shown to inhibit the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33007504/

And it has been suggested that nitric oxide is a potential therapeutic agent against Covid-19:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33080582/

And here is a study where it was found that patients with lower levels of plasma citrulline (a metabolite of arginine) had worse Covid-19 symptoms than those with higher levels.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7332957/

So it seems possible to me that many of the athletes at the games were taking nitric oxide boosting supplements which would in theory protect them from getting sick or mitigate their symptoms, thus preventing an outbreak so big that it couldn’t be ignored.

No other national outbreaks have been traced to that time period, and they all began months later, mostly via Chinese travellers from Wuhan.

Or may be we don’t know because it has been covered up.

There are at least 3 military delegations, France, Sweden and Luxemburg’s, whose members reported having had dreadful viral infections they believed were Covid, either during the Wuhan Games, or immediately upon returning from the competition.

French heptathlon champion Elodie Clouvel in particular, reported on a radio show how, back from Wuhan, she consulted the assigned military doctor who told her she probably got Covid, as did a large number of other members of the Wuhan delegation who consulted him too.

As soon as the interview was broadcast, the French Army Ministry banned any declaration on the topic, and stated that neither further communication would be made, nor Covid serology testing carried out. Why so specific?

https://www.lci.fr/autres-sports/coronavirus-covid-19-pandemie-des-athletes-militaires-francais-contamines-a-wuhan-en-chine-des-octobre-jeux-militaires-ministere-des-armees-2153093.html

As often the case in diplomatic issues, what is not said often matters more than what is.

It makes no sense that when researchers started studying these viruses, there came three new zoonotic viruses.

There are estimated to be 700,000 zoonotic diseases. Before Covid-19, 13 zoonotic diseases, including tuberculosis, hepatitis E and avian flu, killed 2.2 million people annually. China is economically dynamic and a corollary is the exploitation and interference with the relevant aspects of the natural environment such as bats (and the viruses they carry) has never been greater. It does not seem very far fetched to think that new and greater opportunities for some of these zoonotic diseases to get into humans has resulted much more in the last two decades in China than elsewhere.

Since the millennium there have been three novel coronaviruses: SARS, MERS, and Covid-19. Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome first appeared in Saudi Arabia, and while the other two originating in China seems disproportionate, it is the world’s most populous country, and addition to almost one in five humans being Chinese they have these wet markets at which live wildlife are sold and kept crowded together in unhygienic (and cruel) conditions, which they were warned repeatedly by authorities such as Professor W. Ian Lipkin was asking for a rerun of SARS, but worse. China ignored the Western animal welfare advocates and public health experts. What the world’s most ethically and scientifically advanced countries warned backward totalitarian China about for umpteen years, is exactly what has come to pass. Moreover, the pandemic seems to have redounded–relatively speaking– to China’s economic benefit because a benighted police state in which individual freedoms are not so much undervalued as uncomprehended is best able to impose anti-infective measures. So they win.

Do we know if Brazil is using the same allegedly flawed CDC methodology?

I suspect Lula is in on the scam. That is why they got him out of prison. The incumbent who they put in place had outlived his usefulness. Those running the spectacle have priorities. First, they put Lula in prison and now they got him out of prison. Pure theater.

The typical account floating around the Internet notes that something like five participants were sick during the games, but there doesn’t seem evidence they were American,

We already did this, a long time ago now, thanks to kauchai and utu, you could start here:

145.utu says:
March 10, 2020 at 3:59 am GMT • 400 Words
@kauchai

“…two members of the US team were treated for high fever in wuhan itself…”

I am sure there must have been rumors, so to dispel them on Feb 24 Global Time wrote this:

Five foreign athletes from military world games in Wuhan infected with malaria, not COVID-19 in October 2019: hospital head
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1180549.shtml

Follow the links both back one and forwards some, to end here:

167.kauchai says:
March 10, 2020 at 10:42 am GMT • 200 Words
@utu

” I am writing this believing that the CCP realizes they can’t afford any major confrontation with the West,

Malaria in china in 2019? …”

For what it’s worth. rgds

“There are estimated to be 700,000 zoonotic diseases.”

Let us put this issue straight. There are 263 viruses that are known to have infected humans,
of them 188 are zoonotic:
“263 (viruses) have been detected in humans, 75 of which are exclusively human and 188 zoonotic—defined operationally here as viruses detected at least once in humans and at least once in another mammal species” from nature 2017
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22975
while in 2012 only 219 viruses were known to be able to infect humans
“There are 219 virus species that are known to be able to infect humans.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3427559/
It is not that many new viruses appeared, but that viruses that were not noticed before were noticed.

So, new zoonotic viruses do not appear that often. The potential pool of viruses in animals is
immense, however viruses do not jump species all that often. Before the emergence of SARS humans had four coronaviruses. They were all zoonotic, but the last one most probably
appeared in 1890 from cows in Russia. China has moved people from villages to big cities
where they are much less likely to meet bats or other wild animals.

But all such speculation
is futile since SARS-CoV-2 could not have appeared from recombination of a bat virus and
a pangolin virus because of the very recent divergence time between RaTG13 and SARS-CoV-2.
Nothing save a miracle (or genetic engineering) can explain the appearance of polybasic cleaveage site in just a few years (after 2002, up to 2019). As there is no human virus that has this site,
it cannot be from recombination in humans, that leaves only random mutations and the time
is too short: we can see that now when there is pandemic the virus mutates only by random mutations and no mutation changing four or five amino acids in a row has appeared. There
is no rational way to conclude that the virus is natural. That is why the main stream prefers
to calculate the divergence time incorrectly to 1960s or 1980s, but that calculation is wrong.

Thanks for the links, but I’m not getting too much from either. The Nature paper:

the availability of the RaTG13 bat sequence helped reveal key RBD mutations and the polybasic cleavage site.
… Although the evidence shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not a purposefully manipulated virus

The 2nd bit may be typical, “not a purposefully manipulated…” [Sooo many are saying just that; recall here ‘believe nothing until officially denied!’] With the MP789 RBD theory, it looks less likely that RaTG13 mutated but rather was ‘GMO’d’ into SARS-CoV-2. Then, “The divergence” paper discusses mutations, again moot if ‘GMO’d.’ Also as an amateur, I’ve concentrated on the spike, so ORF1AB etc. is a bit beyond me. I see they give results in tables, I think the multalin graphics are more useful. But again, thanks.

Speculation time: Interesting, that you say [paraphrased:] 1st SARS-CoV may be coincidence, 2nd MERS-CoV is suspicious but 3rd SARS-CoV-2 is indicative – of criminal intent? A bit like 9/11; two towers exploded due to putative aircraft crashes, but three towers ‘fell’ down [directly through the designed path of greatest resistance.] How serendipitist! rgds

I suspect Lula is in on the scam

According to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Total infections 1st US = 31mio, 2nd Brazil = 12.5mio.

Dead 1st US = 563k, 2nd Brazil = 314k.

One place US is ‘doing better’ than Brazil:

Daily new dead, Brazil = 2655 going rapidly up, US = 988, going down.

Some theater. rgds

Yes, all these papers assure that the virus is natural, though none of them give any reason why
they claim so.

It does not surprise me that you did not get any further from those links. I do not think one can
get much further from genetic data, but I found one sound argument. My very small study was
just to convince myself that my coauthor’s claims of SARS-CoV-2 being man-made are true, as
I am hard to convince, have to check it myself and I need a logically sound argument, not any
soft *pretending* claims of the type of biowarfare against China. I did look at all this vaping
disease, military sport event in Wuhan and Ft. Derrick leak, etc. all what my coauthor explained,
but those are only vague claims circulating in the Internet, and here in Unz’s articles. No
sound argument can be made from them.

But I suggest reading Weisendanger’s study carefully. It is much better than my study.
Weisendanger’s text, if you ignore possible defects, is a long study and very convincing. He has collected extracts from papers. They do show that viruses were made, just this type, and in Wuhan, USA and elsewhere. It would be odd if this research has no connection with the new CoVs.

It was in mid May 2020 that there was a brief spike of reports in media about Wuhan military games and Western athletes claiming they were sick then possibly with covid.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1094347/world-military-games-illness-covid-19

German volleyball player Jacqueline Brock alleged that she got COVID-19

French pentathlete Elodie Clouvel claimed she and her partner Valentin Belaud contracted the virus at the Games.

Luxembourg triathlete Oliver Gorges said he fell ill with a flu and is now to undergo an antibody test this week to see if he has COVID-19.

He claimed that Wuhan was a “ghost town” when he went for a cycle in the city, while also saying that he had his temperature recorded on arrival at the airport while athletes were told to wash their hands when entering the canteen. [this is strange about his “ghost town” claim]

However, Swedish pentathlete Melina Westerberg said that many of her compatriots were sick at the Games, but none tested positive for the virus claiming: “It was just a coincidence, we all felt safe.”

But after the brief surge of reports there was no follow up and no verification of the claims with serological tests.

It’s possible, but that news article sounds mostly like speculation. Athletes who got sick at the time thought it was the flu, but in hindsight suspected that it might have been Covid-19 though they don’t have any evidence.

What kind of evidence would you reasonably expect to see under the circumstances? Who’s going to investigate and why would they? Certainly no Western government is going to risk uncovering any inconvenient facts which would undermine the official narrative. And why would athletes such as Elodie Clouvel have any reason to think their illnesses were anything other than the flu at a time before anyone knew that SARS-CoV-2 was in town?

Again, the problem I have with all this is the extremely contagious nature of the virus. Once a group of people are infected—maybe 5 or 10—cases tend to double every 3-5 days until you get a gigantic outbreak.

I think you’re overstating it. Yes it’s contagious but not THAT contagious. I personally know several people who had it who live near me and they had only mild symptoms; and the town didn’t shut down because of them. Whether or not you get a “gigantic outbreak” depends critically on the details. For example, studies show that airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 via aerosol particles in an indoor environment seems to be strongly influenced by relative humidity, with low humidity being the worst case.

And according to what I’ve read, the average relative humidity in Wuhan, China in October is 78%; the temperature ranges approximately between 57 degrees F and 73 degrees F; so it seems the conditions for viral transmission in Wuhan in October would’ve been sub-optimal for the spread of the virus.

Also it seems clear that age, diet, vitamin D status and general health are important risk factors so I would expect that athletes like those in attendance at the Wuhan games would generally be at significantly less risk of becoming infected and have less risk of becoming severely ill than the general population. And as I mentioned in my earlier comment, it’s likely that any athletes taking ergogenic nutritional supplements such as arginine and citrulline would be at even less risk.

As the temperature dropped in Wuhan after October and people shut the windows, turned up the heat and stayed indoors, the conditions for good viral transmission would’ve increased significantly leading to the massive outbreak.

The Wuhan Games lasted 10 days and there were 10,000 athletes attending, so if a bunch of them were infected when they arrived, you really would have expected hundreds of infections by the end given their close quarters and physical activity, perfect for spreading.

For all we know there might actually have been hundreds of infected athletes. Did somebody do a survey and contact all 9308 participants from the 110 countries? I doubt it. Should we expect to hear about it if some of the participants from Sri Lanka, Ecuador or Tanzania were sick for ten days after returning home from the games? I think not.

Afterwards, this would have led to huge outbreaks in dozens of countries by the end of the year, some of them as big as the one in Wuhan itself. But there was absolutely nothing. There’s zero evidence of any visible outbreak anywhere in the world until the one that hit the Iranian political elites several months later.

Again I think you overstate it. It’s already been proven that the virus was present in the U.S. for many weeks before it became a problem. If it can circulate here undetected for many weeks or even months then why not elsewhere, e.g. the home towns of some of the returning athletes? How do you explain this?

“Researchers found coronavirus antibodies in 39 samples from California, Oregon, and Washington as early as Dec. 13 to Dec. 16. They also discovered antibodies in 67 samples from Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Rhode Island, and Wisconsin in early January — before widespread outbreaks in those states.

Despite the findings, widespread community transmission in the U.S. was unlikely until late February, the authors said.”

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/12/01/940395651/coronavirus-was-in-u-s-weeks-earlier-than-previously-known-study-says

And I would bet that if they looked at earlier blood samples, they likely would’ve found it here earlier.

We’re still not entirely sure about how the disease spreads, but it does seem to be extremely contagious, which leaves me pretty skeptical of some scenarios, including the claims of the disease already circulating in America during summer 2019.

I’m all ears for a better theory as to what happened at the retirement communities in Virginia in June and July of 2019, but lacking any plausible alternative theory and the government’s refusal to identify the pathogen, Covid-19 seem the only possible explanation IMO.

(If you want people to read your comments you ought to do them the courtesy of closing the spaces )

China has moved people from villages to big cities where they are much less likely to meet bats or other wild animals.

Unless they go to a wet market

There s no rational way to conclude that the virus is natural

If you think a natural event virus cannot cause a global pandemic.

Re “the very recent divergence time between RaTG13 and SARS-CoV-2” that is a very concrete fact, do you have a problem with abstraction?

“do you have a problem with abstraction?”

It should be a sound argument.

Natural viruses do cause pandemics, but random mutations have a certain mutation rate and what they can feasibly achieve depends on time and population size. We have a good estimate from WHO of the mutation rate per nucleotide per year and can estimate that it is not possible to have the furin cleavage site appear in a small time with small population size by random mutations. So how?

“(If you want people to read your comments you ought to do them the courtesy of closing the spaces ) ”

If I write in this comment box, there now appears spaces. It was not so two years ago. I make no spaces on purpose. Maybe with short lines.

It’s already been proven that the virus was present in the U.S. for many weeks before it became a problem.

Isn’t that what former-CDC Director Robert Redfield is indirectly implying?

In his last declarations, he has stated two principal conclusions. In his personal opinion, (1) SARS-Cov2 wasn’t engineered but escaped accidentally from the Wuhan Lab (2) Has been spreading undetected since September 2019.

Within the scope of the imminent issuance of the WHO report on the origins of Covid, one can understand why Redfield would stress, yet again, on the “China virus” hypothesis. It is his job, after all, as an American civil servant, to deflect responsibility towards China.

But why has he suddenly made this extraordinary claim that Covid started much earlier than detected? Why does this hypothesis come out now, of the blue? What is the objective in stating so?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273

Either Redfield is, out of patriotic duty, also trying to alleviate the suspicion arising from the November 2019 NCMI report with foreknowledge of the pandemic.

Or he is, more selfishly, trying to exonerate himself from potential future serology discoveries proving that Covid had spread unnoticed in the USA under his watch.

Redfield was publicly contradicted by Fauci, so whatever he is trying to achieve is not a consensual group effort, which makes the second option most likely.

thanks, will keep an eye out for that.

BTW what we heard about in some news reports were stories of a few groups of European athletes who were sick while in Wuhan or shortly after returning home but the evidence shows that many healthy people are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms yet they can still spread the virus. So we don’t know how many athletes at the games might have become asymptomatic spreaders back home.

https://www.uchealth.org/today/the-truth-about-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19/

The NPR article you linked to that reports on the American Red Cross study is incomplete and misleading. The chief author of the paper, Susan L. Stramer stated that of all ‘positive ‘ samples only one had antibodies very effective in neutralizing SARS-CoV-2. The remaining ‘positive’ samples can be due to exposure to different coronaviruses.

https://www.nrtoday.com/virus-may-have-arrived-in-u-s-in-december-but-didn-t-spread-until-later/article_60ba210f-ed07-5b99-b9d0-82b8849b8061.html

One issue with testing is that antibodies to certain coronaviruses, such as those that cause common colds, may also respond to other viruses in the same family, like SARS-CoV-2.

In the new tests on more than 7,000 samples, 106 showed coronavirus antibodies. The researchers narrowed this down to 84 that had antibodies that would attack, or “neutralize” SARS-CoV-2 to some degree. One of these samples showed very effective neutralization, Stramer said. And another sample showed a reaction to a part of the spike protein that is very specific to SARS-CoV-2. “So for two samples at least, we believe they probably represent true infections.” Those people could have been travelers who were infected outside of the U.S., however.

You can read it for yourself in the original paper:

Serologic Testing of US Blood Donations to Identify Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)–Reactive Antibodies: December 2019–January 2020
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1785/6012472

“Therefore, the presence of IgM or IgA antibodies and S1-specific binding activity may distinguish antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 from antibodies to human common coronaviruses [23, 24]. In the present study, 84 of 90 (>93%) reactive sera had neutralizing activity against SARS-CoV-2 virus, 39 (44.3%) had both IgG and IgM SARS-CoV-2 S protein–specific antibodies, 2 (2.2%) sera had surrogate neutralization activities, and 1 of 90 (1.1%) had SARS-CoV-2 S1-specific Ig.Collectively, these data suggest that at least some of the reactive blood donor sera could be due to prior SARS-CoV-2 infection. ”

So your statement beginning with “If it can circulate here undetected” starts with a false premise and as you know from logic a false premise makes any thesis true. In other words arguments based on a false premise are useless.

A new survey conducted exclusively among epidemiologists, virologists and infectious disease specialists show that 66% of them think that within 12 months, the SARS-CoV2 virus will mutate to such a degree that first-generation vaccines will be useless at preventing infection.

Of that group, nearly one-fifth believes the vaccines will become inefficient within six months, and one-third said within nine months.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9419815/Two-thirds-experts-believe-coronavirus-variants-make-vaccines-ineffective-ONE-YEAR.html

A bit late to the party, and thus likely to go unnoticed, so I appended it here to comment #1.

The Genetic Literacy Project, to its credit, was courageous enough to reprint Ron’s Origins of Covid essay. I found it there and posted the following comment, which was promptly removed. You may speculate as to why. I reposted my comment to my Whimsical Dog blog …

https://www.blogger.com/blog/posts/629719238507382416

and below:

An aspect of this matter that has not been covered/mentioned, even by Ron Unz in his review:

Twenty years ago, witnessing the rise of China with double digit GDP growth, and the rapid Neoliberal transfer of manufacturing to China, I thought to myself that the US could only recover competitiveness and the US jobs that were then being moved to China, in (***only***) one of two ways: (1) Nuke China “back to the stone age” (radical in the extreme, as well as “impractical” because of China’s nuclear deterrent, and because the barbaric severity would have correspondingly severe global political implications). Clearly too radical; or (2) to simply wait it out until rising Chinese wages met falling US wages, at which point US workers would once again be competitive.

Looking back at this view, I see another possibility, a more “creative” option to damage China and halt or slow their rise: the bioweapons option. Unlike a direct military attack, a bioweapons attack could be kept “covert”. By implying a natural origin, the attacker could avoid a retaliatory response. (Even if the Chinese Governing elite saw it as a bioweapons attack, accepting a “natural origin” narrative, would allow them to save face and forgo an obligatory retaliatory response and the catastrophic damage to US-China economic activity that would certainly result.)

Now, let us “guess” that the previous avian and swine flu outbreaks may have been lower level “test runs” of a bioweapons strategy. Or alternatively, a natural event that might suggest a bioweapons strategy.

With this preface, in this light, let’s look to the unmentioned hypothesis for the Covid-19 event that I mentioned at the start.

Simply stated. The cooperative effort — funding and personnel — between the US and China to research GoF research at the Wuhan lab could not possibly have been conducted without the knowledge and involvement of the US National Security apparatus. China was a chief US adversary, and the CIA would have been all over this activity. And the plan then becomes incredibly simple: at a time of their choosing, a time of greatest effectiveness — around Chinese New Year — the CIA asset at the Wuhan lab, releases the pathogen ***DELIBERATELY***. (No Ft. Detrick involvement needed.)

Up till now the “Lab Leak” hypothesis has always assumed/implied an accidental release. A deliberate release is far more reasonable and certainly far more consistent with Occam’s Razor.

And there are those other factors: the Military Intelligence report by ABC, at once denied, and then confirmed; all the Plan 201 and other “timely” pandemic preparedness activity immediately preceding the pandemic: the instantaneous and comprehensive lockdown by the Chinese (which suggests that they may have been prepared, anticipating as much a deliberate military “bioweapons” attack as a natural outbreak). And the refusal of the US to allow release of the US CDC data about the origin.

Some thoughts.

Scientists put the Covid–19 virus in convalescent serum and found the British, Brazilian and other kinds of more transmissible variants began to appear . As regard drawing firm conclusions, I think a little humility may be in order

So your statement beginning with “If it can circulate here undetected” starts with a false premise and as you know from logic a false premise makes any thesis true. In other words arguments based on a false premise are useless.

As far as I’m concerned, it is not a “false premise” since the outbreaks of the “mysterious respiratory illness” in the retirement communities in VA (and the conspicuous lack of interest in the subject by the government/media/medical establishment complex) constitute preponderant evidence (IMO) that SARS-CoV-2 was present in the U.S. well before Jan 2020.

But since Ron is now questioning this, I tried to cite other evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was here earlier that Jan 2020.

Stramer et al. conclude:

“These findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may have been introduced into the United States prior to 19 January 2020.”

I agree that this one paper, by itself, stating that “SARS-CoV-2 may have been introduced into the U.S. prior to 19 January 2020″ would not be enough to convince me.

There is also this study:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32791492/

Where the authors conclude:

“A significantly higher number of patients with respiratory complaints and diseases starting in late December 2019 and continuing through February 2020 suggests community spread of SARS-CoV-2 prior to established clinical awareness and testing capabilities.”

Since some of the “confirmed-reactive sera” of the first study were from donations collected between 13 and 16 December 2019 from residents of California, and since the second study involved hospitals and clinics in California, the two studies taken together are compelling evidence IMO that SARS-CoV-2 was in the U.S., at least in California, at least a month before Jan 19, 2020.

Also, I have personally encountered people who claim they were sick with what they believe was Covid-19 back in the fall of of 2019, and there are stories such as the following (the mayor of Belleville, NJ Michael Melham claims he had Covid-19 in Nov 2019):

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/essex/belleville/2020/04/30/belleville-nj-mayor-tests-positive-coronavirus-antibodies/3057925001/

I think when you look at the whole picture it’s clear that the virus was here long before January 2020.

I’m concerned, it is not a “false premise” since the outbreaks of the “mysterious respiratory illness” in the retirement communities in VA

OK, I looked up at one in Springfield, VA which is 56 miles from Fort Detrick on the other side of Washington DC.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/outbreak-investigation-assisted-living-facility-springfield

The first case was on June 30 and last on July 15. Total 63 residents became ill within the assisted living and skilled nursing areas. Of the ill individuals, 23 have been hospitalized. There has also been a total of two deaths associated with the outbreak.

“In the independent living section of Greenspring, which includes approximately 1,700 residents and is located in separate buildings from Garden Ridge, there is no outbreak of respiratory illness. ”

So, why do you think it was covid? Very low mortality among old and presumably sickly (with comorbidities) patients. And why did the outbreak last only 15 days? How often such outbreaks occur in assisted living facilities? Anyway, CDC did some testing and did not find anything. Should we be concerned? Living in nursing homes and assisted living carries higher risks. Was the outbreak very unusual? Should we think it was covid? I do not think so.

So, why do you think it was covid? Very low mortality among old and presumably sickly (with comorbidities) patients.

Knowing what we do now, why do you think it was not Covid-19? And what do you mean by “very low mortality”; very low mortality compared to what?

Let’s see, 63 residents and 19 staff members were sickened; 23 of the residents were hospitalized and 3 died.

And 3/23 = 0.130 = 13%; so 13% of the hospitalized patients died.

Let’s compare that to patients hospitalized with Covid-19.

According to WebMd:

How often do people die from coronavirus?

ANSWER

Currently the mortality rate is higher than the flu at between 8-12% among those hospitalized.

Coronavirus is particularly fatal in people with underlying chronic medical conditions. Older people and people of all ages with severe underlying health conditions — like heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, and being treated for cancer, for example — seem to be at higher risk of developing serious COVID-19 illness.

So that’s right in the same ballpark as Covid-19, wouldn’t you say?

And why did the outbreak last only 15 days?

What do you mean? If you’re referring to the fact that there were reportedly no new cases at Greenspring after July 15, it is apparently because in consultation with the Fairfax County Health Department, they were taking measures to stop the spread of the virus.

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/articles/three-dead-amid-respiratory-illness-outbreak-in-springfield/article_ce2c4b14-afd8-11e9-959b-7f6fe03817ca.html

How often such outbreaks occur in assisted living facilities?

Well according to the AARP Covid-19 has killed lots of people at nursing homes and other long term care facilities.

https://www.aarp.org/ppi/issues/caregiving/info-2020/nursing-home-covid-dashboard.html

Anyway, CDC did some testing and did not find anything.

Or at least that’s what they said, and therein lies the problem; groups of people don’t just get sick like that (with some dying) for no reason; rather, some pathogen is responsible. If the CDC can’t figure out what the pathogen was, what good are they? So they just gave up on it? How do we know we weren’t attacked with a bioweapon by one of our many “existential enemies” for example? You don’t see anything suspicious here?

Should we be concerned?

Being that “our” “government” is an assortment of liars, murderers and thieves, I would say yes, we should be concerned.

Living in nursing homes and assisted living carries higher risks.

Indeed; especially when “our” “government” unleashes a bioweapon like SARS-CoV-2 against us (and the whole world).

Was the outbreak very unusual?

At the time it happened, it probably was; in retrospect, no.

Should we think it was covid?

Of course we should.

I do not think so.

I’m all ears for alternative theories but I’m not hearing anything.

The question is what population size you assume for Covid-19 before the furin cleavage site PRRARS|V was created. Let us assume, as the main stream theory says, in human to human communication after the recombination ín pangolins. There is no human coronavirus that has this five amino acid sequence PRRAR in a corresponding place (i.e., recombination almost always occurs between similar viruses and takes the insert from a corresponding place), so it is not by recombination in humans. Thus, it is by random mutations. The mutation rate is of the order 10^-4 per nucleotide per year (i.e, the mutation rate of successful mutations that remain in the lineage, in each replication there are many mutations, but most cannot replicate further as they do not work). This is the WHO estimate and can be taken as reliable. Each amino acid is coded with 3 nucleotides: amino acid mutation rate is about 3*10^-4 as only one nucleotide may need to be changed to get a different amino acid (about, as there are neutral mutations that do not change the amino acid).

Now we get to the problem how to do this. If it were so that a sequence of five nucleotides changed to PRRAR, then we calculate as follows: To get five amino acids to change, the probability is (3*10^-4)^5, roughly 2.5*10^-18 per year. The place where this change happens can be anywhere in 30,000 nucleotides of the virus, thus the probability is about 1*10^-13 per year. The time is less than 20 years, thus 1.4*10^-12. This you multiply by the population size to get the probability. Do you have 10^13 people infected by the virus before the virus was noticed?

But in reality it is even less probable. This PRRAR is not a replacement, it is an insert. A random mutation usually changes one nucleotide to another, and can cause an insert or deletion of one nucleotide. Not five in a sequence. That is a recombination and a recombination is from another virus.

Thus, no way to get this furin cleavage site. Today there is pandemic and over 100 million infected. We can expect mutations. But we still do not see inserts of five nucleotides caused by random mutations, because that cannot happen.

“I think a little humility may be in order”

Strangely, I have never noticed any humility in you. But learn a bit more of genetics.

I doubt the biowar against China scenario in the case of SARS-CoV-2 because military people must know that airborne highly infectious virus cannot be confined to one country and without vaccine it is a threat to your side.

But I give one hint who did this. Why should it be so that the main stream science and main stream media so strongly maintains that the virus is natural? There is no strong evidence that is is natural. There is enough evidence that is is man-made.

There are many other cases where main stream science and main stream media claim what is almost certainly wrong, like 9/11, JFK, 6M and so on. Does China, or the US President, or maybe Putin, or Santa Claus, control Western science and Western media?

recombination almost always occurs between similar viruses and takes the insert from a corresponding place

Thanks for that; that could ‘explain’ the RBD. If we take an approach re probabilities, then Q: Just how likely is it that pretty much the entire RBD from MP789 was ‘recombined’ with RaTG13 to form SARS-CoV-2 in nature? Suggested A: Astronomical but, since you and I generally agree that SARS-CoV-2 was ‘GMO’d,’ we can dispense with probabilities on the grounds that the putative chimera was being designed to attack humans, and that required an ACE2-attacking RBD = MP789.

But then a tiny quibble; the polybasic (furin) cleavage site was created by the insertion of PRRA; the following R was already in RaTG13 [see my #100 above, or my ‘original, “Ah, ha!” letter-by-letter comparison’ discovery of PRRA, on May 8, 2020 at 8:00 pm GMT at #307.] As otherwhere no matter; except that now we come to your ‘that cannot happen’ estimation of PRRA being ‘mutated in’ by nature vs. some GMO process. Sorry if this is somewhat slow and partially redundant, but now to the ‘crunch:’ IF SARS-CoV-2 is a lab-made chimera [IMHO yes] THEN the polybasic (furin) cleavage site PRRA could have been added in *at any time* [obviously before the Wuhan ‘explosive exposure’], in particularly *after* any ‘live testing’ [in the US, say, see EVALI and the Greenspring events, etc..] In other words, development/testing could easily have been done in stages; early fragment-detections or actual illness episodes could have been ‘proof of concept’ exercises before the ‘live release’ of the final [=PRRA’d] product into *and* around Wuhan. [Peter Forster labelled 3 clades; A, B and C, whereby A was ancestral with one early sample found 50km from Wuhan but soon mostly outside China, B was overwhelmingly most common in Wuhan/China, and C mainly/only outside of China.]

OK. Almost everywhere we look, in MSM or academia, the ‘standard narrative’ for SARS-CoV-2 origin is allegedly natural recombination [here recall: Believe nothing until officially denied], so the ‘natural’ reaction [by thinking alternativists, say] is to assume the opposite and it then descends to Q: ‘Accidental’ or ‘on purpose?’ But now Jeff Davis at #107 above has provided us with a sophisticated refinement: ‘Deliberate release by a traitorous 5th columnist covert operative within WIV.’ Makes a certain amount of sense? rgds

Crossing posts; your #183 appeared after I posted my ‘traitorous 5th columnist covert operative’ one.

because military people must know that airborne highly infectious virus cannot be confined to one country and without vaccine it is a threat to your side

With respect, this includes two assumptions, (1) exclusive military involvement [as ‘adjunct/alternative’ to military is ‘Fow Chi,’ say], and (2) that no vaccine [better, antidote] was at hand, neither assumption being necessarily so. Whereas it is true that the US military is up to its eyeballs in biowarfare, IF they had a vaccine – or better, an antidote – THEN they could *never* deploy any such [except covertly] for fear that they’d blow their own ‘game!’ [Oh, look over there; we just happen to have this magic stuff to save the US people but Chinese can’t have any.] rgds

PS I am working, albeit slowly, through Wiesendanger; thanks again.

PPS I have written in the past that an antidote *must* exist; if we consider that Iran [also probably Russia] was covertly seeded by mini, hand-launched drones [only possibility?]; the drone operators would have to be able to retrieve the [virus-soaked] drones without becoming ill, since to have a ‘wet’ drone found would also blow ‘the game.’

I do not know antidotes to viruses. I know antidotes to poisons. A virus
enters a cell in your body and starts replicating.
Do you mean some medicine that stops the virus from replicating? They are
developing one. Or maybe medicine that stops the virus from entering cells?
Naturally there could have been a medicine earlier and kept secret. But as the
task of the military usually is to defend its own people, why did they not defend?

My humility takes the form of understanding that I am a dilettante, and believing that I cannot be any kind of authority on a very technical subject. I don’t think you are that much cleverer than me. The Beta genera of coronavirus are have a natural reservoir in bats (and rodents). Let me just ask you to imagine that you saw flying rats, you’d think they were something to be avoided, eh? The Covid-19 virus is a Betacoronavirus. The hypothesis at this point is that SARS-CoVs originated by recombination events between viruses from a Pangolin and one from a bat.

Mutations are only one change at a time and coronaviruses have a sort of spell checker that stops many mutations. But two separate types of coronaviruses in the same cell can quite possibly get zipped together. If that happened with the coronavirus causing Middle East Respiratory Syndrome with its 33% case fatality rate, and with the coronavirus causing Covid-19, then a very transmissible recombined hybrid virus that kills a third or more of those infected like MERS, while also spreading in a wildfire-like Covid-19 way would come into being.

recombination almost always occurs between similar viruses and takes the insert from a corresponding place

Thanks for that; that could ‘explain’ the RBD.

Yes, RBD appearing just in the correct position is not surprising.

Notice that I mean only recombination in single strain non-segmented RNA viruses that are not retroviruses. It is different with different types, e.g., in a double strain RNA virus an insert is not an error, it is a functional activity of the virus, the two strains are intended to swap segments. A retrovirus can make an insert to DNA to any place, and segmented RNA viruses swap segments, so this is virus type specific . Additionally recombination, like RNA replication, is only partially understood, so one must be careful.

There is a WHO report on the origins of SARS-CoV-2. I have not read it yet.

Antidote may just be the wrong word. Prevention being better than cure, the virus should be prevented from attacking, rather than the entire world being vaccinated with some experimental mRNA concoction, recall that the manufacturers demand protection against them being prosecuted for causing harm to any/all ‘subjects.’ Or at least, medication to halt the disease long before the drastic ICU stage. Where are the super-competent scientists?

But as the task of the military usually is to defend its own people, why did they not defend

Shortest answer perhaps [more later]: IF defend THEN why disperse across the planet, 700+ bases expressing planet-wide aggression? Tip: The US military are *enforcers* [aka mafia], simple *not* defenders. rgds

Not really OT, sent by a jewish acquaintance connected in her community: https://www.i24news.tv/en/news

The rate of hospitalized after second vaccine jab seems to be rising in Israel. My acquaintance is pro-Israel, pro-vaccine and already vaccinated in Miami, so this was a surprise.

Should we discount the laboratory origin of COVID-19?
Segreto etal.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7993900/

For this reason Chinese propagandist who favor this theory invoke virus modification and mutation that the virus of 2019 was different and spreading very slowly and only gained properties of high infectiousness when it found itself in China and Italy. So basically they claim that the virus was different but still the same. There is no scientific basis for viral behavior like that

What’s so hard to understand? *GIVEN* that SARS-CoV-2 is a ‘retort-baby,’ anything can [be made to] happen, including PRRA being added as a ‘last [super infectious!] step’ before the deliberate [world threatening!] release in and around Wuhan. Are you keeping up?

“Probability of virus being present and ‘percolating’ on low level for several months before exploding to the exponential growth in February 2020 is zero. ”

Interesting, that Influenza A does that very thing every year it arises, percolating at a low level, until winter, and then voila, an exponential increase. Or is that not so? This occurs for various seasonal viruses. So the mechanism, of seasonal supported illness may be responsible, allowing percolation at a low level until seasonal conditions are optimal, then exponential increase. Just a guess. I’m not contesting what you say, just asking whether there may be other things happening. Seasonal factors.

WHEN [not IF] it is proven that the USA ‘did’ the SARS-CoV-2 exploit *against not just China or Iran, but against the whole world*, THEN that will be the absolute end of the USA, no ifs, ands or buts. For ever. The world over. And pity the satraps, etc. [like Aus, CN & D etc.], but they did it *all* to themselves.

No IMHO, that’s simply *it*.

Confirms the conclusions here. Notice that the arguments in this paper against pangolin RBD are only that a natural recombination be a bat virus and a pangolin virus is unlikely. It does not at all discuss the possibility of genetic engineering. It is very possible, because of the close similarity between a published pangolin CoV RBD and SARS-CoV-2 RBD that it is a result of genetic engineering. Indeed, a natural recombination is unlikely for these two viruses. There is one very interesting comment: the pangolin RNA sample may be synthetic and not real. I personally do not think so, the RBD is from somewhere. The easiest way to get is is to cut if from some genome. I hope now that the host of this site is satisfied that some real biochemists have confirmed the arguments presented on this thread by so called *pretending* Internet commenters that are best ignored. The article does not make the easiest argument of the short divergence time between RaTG13 and SARS-CoV-2, but that is a good and simple argument.

I agree with skrik. Most probably the virus either was modified to become more virulent, or mutated to be more virulent. There is some evidence that the virus did exist in the wild before November 2019. Then the virus behavior can be explained. With many viruses, including coronaviruses, it is so that they are highly dependent on weather conditions, but SARS-CoV-2 can spread in Brazil and Northern Europe, so almost in any weather conditions. If it did not cause a pandemic in the beginning, it was a different strain.

Thus the timing of the Wuhan event would be not simply to take advantage of the lunar new year, but crucially, to take advantage of the seasonal factors favoring maximal development of disease. (not simply travel related)

Probability of virus being present and ‘percolating’ on low level for several months before exploding to the exponential growth in February 2020 is zero

This is a layman’s supposition, nothing more.

Former CDC director Robert Redfield, a trained virologist, wasn’t afraid to publicly state recently that the virus’ spread could have started unnoticed in Wuhan as early as September 2019:

“If I was to guess, this virus started transmitting somewhere in September, October in Wuhan,” Redfield told Gupta. “That’s my own feelings. And only opinion. I’m allowed to have opinions now.”

https://edition.cnn.com/health/live-news/covid-pandemic-doctors-cnn-special/index.html

While Fauci disagreed with him, nobody called Redfield a fool or in incompetent for proposing such an early start date.

The possibility of undetected circulation of Covid19 in other countries several weeks before its identification in Wuhan is clearly mentioned in the WHO report (Page 7)

Finally, the team reviewed data from published studies from different countries suggesting early circulation of SARS-CoV-2. The findings suggest that circulation of SARS-CoV-2 preceded the initial detection of cases by several weeks. Some of the suspected positive samples were detected even earlier than the first case in Wuhan, suggesting the possibility of missed circulation in other countries. So far, however, the quality of the studies is limited. Nonetheless, it is important to investigate these potential early events

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-study-of-origins-of-sars-cov-2-china-part

Furthermore, the pandemic starting much earlier than believed has become a formal working hypothesis for future WHO researches into the origins of Covid19, since its Director General is now asking for access to raw data going as far back as September 2019.

The team reports that the first detected case had symptom onset on the 8th of December 2019. But to understand the earliest cases, scientists would benefit from full access to data including biological samples from at least September 2019.

https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-remarks-at-the-member-state-briefing-on-the-report-of-the-international-team-studying-the-origins-of-sars-cov-2

The WHO investigation team, despite having been presented with apparently satisfactory evidence that there was no Covid cases in Wuhan in Oct/Nov 2019:

In an extensive exercise by 233 health institutions in Wuhan, some 76,253 records of cases of respiratory conditions in the two months of October and November before the outbreak in late 2019 were scrutinized clinically. Although 92 cases were considered to be compatible with SARS-CoV-2 infection after review, subsequent testing and further external multidisciplinary clinical review determined that none was in fact due to SARS-CoV-2 infection. Based on the analysis of this and other surveillance data, it is considered unlikely that any substantial transmission of SARS-CoV-2 infection was occurring in Wuhan during those two months.

is still demanding to access raw data as far back as September 2019; so an early undetected start is far from being the impossible scenario you present.

If the WHO professionals deem it possible that the country who first identified a Covid patient on 31 Dec 2019 even before the exponential spike in cases occurred, and has since proved to be the most successful at tackling the pandemic, could have still possibly missed others cases in high-density population Wuhan for a period as long as four months, why is it not possible that the US Health authorities have also missed theirs in a more scarcely populated environment?

Anyway, surely this will all be clarified in the blink of an eye when the US does the same as China and comes forward with its Health information, including its EVALI records, going back to Sept 2019, no? (Sarcasm)

There is ongoing, flourishing discussion in the literature about the various corona viruses, it’s a very hot set of topics. It is likely we will not hear the end of this anytime soon; arguments and hypotheses will evolve. Lots of viruses in the wild to sequence.

Covid seasonality:

The role of seasonality in the spread of COVID-19 pandemic
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7892320/

Global evidence suggests COVID-19 could be seasonal
https://www.scienceboard.net/index.aspx?sec=sup&sub=can&pag=dis&ItemID=2055

Global analysis suggests COVID-19 is seasonal
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2021-01/uoic-gas012721.php

Seasonal variation and COVID-19 infection pattern: A gap from evidence to reality
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468584421000106?v=s5

There’s more, some controversy, but lots of discussion that there are strong seasonal factors.

However I was thinking that it should be higher as the sample is not based on general population but on narrow population of elderly with higher health risks typical in assisted living setting. Without knowing more about age profile of the sample I would concede that 5% (3/60) mortality rate could be within a range for people over 70. See Fig. 3 for age specific IFR:

It’s clear that the only thing you’re “thinking” about is being contrary, and it’s starting to become annoying.

Probability of virus being present and ‘percolating’ on low level for several months before exploding to the exponential growth in February 2020 is zero. Stochastic processes describing viral spread just do not do it.

Well it’s your strawman so you might as well have your way with it. Knock your socks off.

Great comment.

Nice comment, Iris.

The divergence time (TMRCA) of SARS-CoV-2 has been estimated to November or December 2019,but also to September 2019: https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1415-47572021000200306&script=sci_arttext

This is why WHO must consider September 2019 as a possible birth time of the virus, yet there are indications that there was a virus giving similar symptoms earlier. It would not be this strain of SARS-CoV-2, but it can well be some earlier strain(s). If RaTG13 was fully sequenced in 2018, as is in the article of comment 192, then the birth of SARS-CoV-2 could not be before 2018. It should take some 6 months to make such a virus according to some expert opinion in Weisendanger’s study. So we get to 2019, maybe early in the year. Vaping disease did have similar symptoms and is strange as nowhere else appeared this disease. Can be a less, or not at all, infectious early strain, one that has to be given in fog to lungs.

One place US is ‘doing better’ than Brazil:

If you think that politicians in any 3rd world country have some influence on the rate of spread or morbidity of this virus, that can only mean that you have never lived in the 3rd world. 🙂

It is surely by now abundantly clear that lockdowns and masks make matters worse. Just compare Florida and Texas with New York and California. And that is in the allegedly 1st world.

New York has more COVID-19 cases, deaths, hospitalizations and job losses than Florida

Interesting that Robert Redfield is an authority for you now.

Research Misconduct Allegations Shadow New CDC Director (March 2018)
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/03/21/595812200/research-misconduct-allegations-shadow-new-cdc-director

He fabricated data and generated fake graphs earlier in his career (which BTY was all about AIDS):

On April 9, 1988, the American Foundation for AIDS Research (AmFAR) sponsored a “Scientific Forum on the Etiology of AIDS”. One of the presenters, William Haseltine showed a slide called “AIDS Virus and Antibody” purporting to reflect the serology model of AIDS. Two of the audience members, both professors of Molecular and Cellular Biology at the University of California Berkeley asked why Haseltine’s graph had no units on it on the y axis and gibberish on the x-axis. Haseltine remarked the graph had been created by Redfield, who muttered, “different measures were used”. Later at a post-conference party, Redfield admitted he had made the slide up – it was not based on any data at all.[42] Haseltine later published two additional fake graphs by Redfield in the Journal of the American Medical Association. – en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_R._Redfield

One has to look at him at that point as a political factotum and not a scrupulous scientist. While his training is in virology he does not have to be well versed in epidemiology and epidemic dynamics so he may not understand the consequence and mathematical low likelihood of his claim that virus was spreading in China already in September 2019 when juxtaposed with the official Chinese numbers. If however the official Chinese number are hiding much large scale of infections then his claims can’t be easily falsified. All he cares at this point is to beef up the anti-China narrative of the lab leak:

Coronavirus likely escaped from a Wuhan lab, says former CDC Director Robert Red-field
https://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/coronavirus-likely-escaped-wuhan-lab-says-former-cdc-director-robert-redfield