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Eric Zuesse on Hagia Sophia & Islamic Activism, End of US Empire
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Forensic historian Eric Zuesse joins the Truth Jihad for a lively Eid debate on Islamic activism and the demise of US empire. First topic: Turkey’s decision to return Hagia Sophia to its status as a mosque. Though Eric and I agree that Erdogan’s (and the Turkish Supreme Court’s) decision was misguided, our reasons for holding that position are radically different. Responding to Eric’s article on the topic, I emailed him:

“I oppose unilaterally making Hagia Sophia a mosque on (Islamic) religious grounds, following Imran Hosein, but wasn’t impressed by your secular arguments especially the “Islamic dictatorship” part. I have Turkish friends who struggled for democracy against the culturally-genocidal secular dictatorship of Attaturk, and they helped me understand that in Turkey as in other Muslim-majority countries, a small wealthy secular comprador elite rules and exploits a poor pious Muslim majority. So democracy in those countries is always Islamic, and dictatorship is always secular. (The fake-Muslim satanic secularists running Saudi Arabia are only an apparent exception.) It’s no surprise that the only genuinely officially Islamic country in the region, Islamic Iran, is also the most democratic.”

Eric: “Iran is not entirely democratic, because it provides its clergy a veto-power over the Government’s decisions. That’s why its enemies call it a ‘theocracy.’ Furthermore: Iran is Shiite. Turkey is Sunni, which is far less democratic. Furthermore: Turkey’s Government declaring the Saint Sohia Cathedral to be instead a mosque is a dictatorial theocratic Sunni act. Even in Christian-majority dictatorships, other religions are allowed to have their own houses of worship, and the Saint Sophia Cathedral is an especially important Christian house of worship that’s located in the Islamic dictatorship of Turkey; so, if Turkey dishonors that Cathedral, then any Christian house of worship is under threat there.”

My response:

“There are holes in some of these arguments. There are plenty of churches functioning happily in almost all Muslim-majority countries including Turkey, and this has been the rule throughout history. Rarely has any Muslim authority seized or closed a church. That is impermissible under Islam. Whereas Western nations have routinely closed and bulldozed mosques, sometimes turning them into churches (the Grand Mosque of Cordoba is an outstanding example). Greece hosts dozens of shuttered and destroyed mosques and won’t let them reopoen. Likewise Spain. France won’t let Muslims build or buy enough mosques to suit their numbers. Etc. etc. So from a secular perspective, Turkey should only return Hagia Sophia to the Christians when Spain returns the Grand Mosque of Cordoba, among other mosques, to the Muslims. To argue otherwise exposes your bigotry and double-standards.

“Hagia Sophia was legally purchased and was a mosque for 500 years, until the 1930s, before it succumbed to Attaturk’s cultural genocide. The real reasons it should be a church are (a) the purchase was arguably under duress, and (b) Muslims need to unite with Eastern Christians to stop the spread of satanic secularism, and should bend over backward to repair relations with their Christian brethren.”

I should have added that the four “Sunni” law schools are no more or less democratic or theocratic than the Jafari (Shia) law school.

So who’s right? Listen and decide.

(Republished from Truth Jihad by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. eD says:

    Under Byzantine rule there were mosques in Constantinople. That was one of the arguments used by the crusaders to justify attacking the Byzantines.

  2. Frankly, the Hagia Sophia is safer being a mosque than a museum as it’s not very likely the Muslims will destroy it altogether. Let me put it another way: The Hagia Sophia is safer in Erdogan’s Turkey than the Nantes Cathedral was in the post-Christian Godless French okrug of the EUSSR – burned down thanks to the “refugee” security-guard imported from Rwanda and hired by the Pedophile Catholic authorities who was probably inspired favorable (((media))) reports of his fellow dindus burning down the creations of the hated white man here in Murika. Even BLM’s famous leader – the fake-negro Talcum X – has called for destroying all such places with their images of the white devils.

    • Replies: @Malla
  3. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:

    A re post from open comments:

    Aya Sophia:

    Good that A. Sophia has been returned to religion, to be a place of worship.

    Now, return the Arabic script. God and beauty.

    Return Donmeh Shlomo Ataturk’s bones to the Rothschilds, his master.

    He served his purpose. Lasted maybe 100 yrs.
    Shit always passes.
    Time to flush Shlomo Ataturk and his memory.

    His grave marker should read: “He killed 6,000,000 Christians.”

    • Agree: Druid, Sya Beerens
  4. “Turkey should only return Hagia Sophia to the Christians when Spain returns the Grand Mosque of Cordoba, among other mosques, to the Muslims”: the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Assumption is located on the site of the Catholic Christian Basilica of Saint Vincent of Lérins built by the Visigoths. In 784 Abd al-Rahman I proceeded to demolish the Christian Basilica and build the grand mosque of Córdoba on its ground. As no mosque was destroyed to build Hagia Sophia, there’ s no possible parallel between the two.

    • Agree: Derer, Robjil, 22pp22, Seraphim
  5. Malla says:
    @Exalted Cyclops

    The Hagia Sophia is safer in Erdogan’s Turkey than the Nantes Cathedral was in the post-Christian Godless French okrug of the EUSSR

    Strange but true.

  6. Anonymous[366] • Disclaimer says:

    Audio does not play. None of your audios are playable now.

  7. Derer says:

    My response (Kevin Barrett):Turkey should only return Hagia Sophia to the Christians when Spain returns the Grand Mosque of Cordoba,

    Quite an illiterate and childish argument. Comparing an event from a primitive 800 years old era to the present more affluent/civilized world is truly imbecilic. Oops, I might take that away for what is happening in the USA now. At that time people were burned for claiming the Earth is round. We use lethal injection now instead of pouring liquid lead in ears. They were all vandals in comparison to present affluence and knowledge.

    We let European Christian Byzantium to call Istanbul, a most populous city in Turkey!!! That is utmost tolerance of European weaklings.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  8. Shocked says:

    Let’s not interview Mr. Zuesse again. Any of the other seven billion will do.

    • Agree: Tor597
    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  9. @Shocked

    It would be helpful if you could briefly explain WHY you don’t want to listen to Eric Zuesse.

    • Replies: @Shocked
    , @Alastair Ross
  10. profnasty says:

    Zeusse kicked Kevin’s ass.
    Brevity is the soul of wit. What does that say about Kevin Barret.

  11. Nice no true Scottsman fallacy. If it’s a dictatorship, then it’s obviously not REALLY Islamic!

    I guess there has never once been REAL Islam on earth then.

    Don’t you ever feel any guilt about your dishonesty? Every article is the same apologetics built on a foundation of lies.

    Hagia Sophia wasn’t built on an old Mosque, though the Grand Mosque of Cordoba was built on the land of another temple. While you lie and say Muslims didn’t destroy churches, literally every Christian culture on earth who encountered your religion has a powerful memory and proof of the exact opposite. And it wasn’t just Churches. Nearly the entirety of India was left in ruins with many of the most holy sites being converted to Islamic mosques to celebrate the conquering. Muslims historians were extremely proud of the murder and destruction, and Pakistani Muslims talk about it positively even now. But maybe they’re not REAL Muslims.

    “France won’t let Muslims build or buy enough mosques to suit their numbers.” “There are plenty of churches functioning happily in almost all Muslim-majority countries including Turkey”

    Except that in Turkey you literally can’t build churches nor can you repair them and every Greek Church in USA has been trying and failing for decades to gain permission to access churches in Turkey that have been forcefully closed. Also, in France the Muslims are raping the French, rioting, and creating no-go zones. Christians in Turkey are also being raped by Muslims. Literally in no situation are your fellow Muslims the victims. I’m even starting to think Palestine deserves what they’re getting.

    Your people, including the snakes in sheep’s clothing Imran Hossein and Hamza Yusuf, have been aggressively defending the genocidal Muslims who stole Kashmir and continue the rampage of rape and destruction today. How do you continue to lie with a straight face and pretend to be peaceful? Be a man and own up to the bloodlust, Kevin.

    We in the west want you gone. Everyone in the east wants you gone. Your dislike of Zionism doesn’t make you or any other Muslim a useful ally of anyone. Terrible religion. May you all burn in hell.

  12. Shocked says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    My view is that by interrupting, shouting, and making categorical, black-and-white, dismissive, and strident comments he detracted from what could have been a more illuminating debate. I signed off half-way into the program.

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  13. @Shocked

    Alex Jones does all those things, and millions of people find him entertaining ; – ) But seriously…I suppose I should ask him to dial down his “mannerisms” if and when he returns to my show.

    I find the contrast between his reasoned and erudite written style and excitable speaking style kind of amusing. But people tell me I have a weird sense of humor.

  14. Seraphim says:
    @Derer

    Doesn’t KB know that the Grand Mosque of Cordoba was initially the Cathedral of Cordoba, desecrated by the Muslim invaders and restored to its initial function after the invaders have been sent packing to where they came? He certainly does, so his argument is not only imbecilic, but deliberately insulting to Christians (like most of the Muslim ‘arguments’). He has no shame.

  15. @Kevin Barrett

    Modi reclaims hated invaders’ mosque for India’s core Hindu citizenry.

    Go and do likewise , Europe.

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