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E. Michael Jones and Matthew Ehret on "Nazi Healthcare: A Eugenic Solution for the Baby Boomer Demographic Time Bomb"
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Matt Ehret just published “Nazi Healthcare Revived Across the Five Eyes: A Eugenic Solution for the Baby Boomer Demographic Time Bomb.” E. Michael Jones of Culture Wars joins the discussion.

Matt Ehret writes: “The western population concentrated in the Trans Atlantic nations is facing a demographic time bomb the likes of which has never been seen in history called by some ‘the babyboomer demographic time bomb’…” COVID-19, which conveniently targets older folks, may not be deadly enough to solve the problem…so bring on the Nazi doctors!

(Republished from Truth Jihad by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Demography, Health care 
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  1. TG says:

    Always the rich insist that people breed like rodents, and always they demand that if they don’t, the crops will rot in the fields and the world will end etc.etc. And always this is a lie.

    The low fertility rate in the West is due to massive third-world immigration and outsourcing, which has made it difficult for young people to earn a steady income and raise a family. You are blaming the victims.

    One is reminded that during the Great Depression, the American fertility rate fell. It did not rebound until AFTER conditions had improved (though even then it was quite modest by third-world standards). With a low fertility rate and no immigration to speak of, in the 1940’s, 1950’s, and the first half of the 1960’s, the working class boomed. Though profits for the elites were modest…

    The notion that people not allowing themselves to be bred like cattle is a ‘disaster’ is bunk. Compare Switzerland and Japan to Bangladesh and Yemen: where would you want to work for a living? Where would you like to be an average retiree?

    • Agree: Polistra
    • Replies: @Petermx
  2. Dear Dr. Jones,

    I am a Roman Catholic convert to Orthodoxy, particularly Russian Orthodoxy, from an Eastern European country with a history of hostile relations with Orthodoxy. The Catholic church in Poland, Lithuania and Croatia can be just as xenophobic as the the Orthodox local churches, so it is unfair to characterize the Russian church, for example, as backsliding into “xenophobic obscurantism” or however you put it. Anyway, the VERY IMPORTANT point that I want to make is that you mischaracterize the nature of the Council of Florence. Saint Mark of Ephesus torpedoed the Union. Interestingly, Saint Mark of Ephesus came to Florence with a strong desire for Union. However, upon seeing the dishonesty of the Latin clerics, who misinterpreted the writings of the Holy Fathers, who insisted on excluding Greek sources, etc., he became a staunch defender of the Orthodox position. This is a common theme among the Orthodox: the arrogance and cunning of the Latins. Don’t be so condescending. The Catholic message to the Orthodox is: you are schismatics, primitive and backward. Our message to you is: don’t be so haughty, renounce heresy, repent for your sins, and join us in fraternal love. The Reformation as a political movement was the result of the worldly nature of the Papacy, coinciding with the Gregorian reform and other heretical innovations. Intellectually, it is the result of Scholasticism, which entered Europe through Muslim Spain and inspired “sola scriptorum.” Scholasticism reduced faith to a barren intellectual exercise. I recommend you read about the debates between Saint Gregory Palamas and Barlaam. A church not built on the Rock of Christ, which in a way can be seen as an analogy to Orthodoxy, eventually erodes. Read about the Catalan Capuchin friar turned Orthodox monk, Father Paul de Ballaster, who converted to Orthodoxy after his Capuchin confessor told him not to read the Holy Fathers after de Ballaster discovered documents in the monastery archive condemning those who insisted that Saints Peter and Paul were equal in apostolic rank. The Latin positions simply do not hold water. But the Latins always resort to casuistry rather than looking in the mirror and examining their errors. It’s sad really that pride prevents Catholics from being honest about their history. My Catholic complexes were an obstacle to conversion for many years, even though I knew that Orthodox were correct. There is good in the Catholic Church, but as an institution, it has been destroyed. Western Christendom is more or less dead. The revival. of the Russian Church is a sign for the good, although unfortunately, many remnants of Bolshevism remain. Many Orthodox believe that the Orthodox Tsar is the “katehon” mentioned in II Thessalonians. Even Cardinal Newman interpreted the “katehon” in a similar way, as the “power that restrains” meaning the secular rule of the Christian monarch. Ideally, church and state work together, which is the concept known as “symphony” in Orthodoxy. in Catholicism, the church became the state, the Pope became a worldly ruler. In today’s world, the state becomes the church, as seen with the current plandemic. For all the inherent flaws of worldly rule, in the Orthodox church, Emperor and Patriarch work together. Many Orthodox believe that Saint Tsar Nicholas II was the “katehon,” whose cruel martyrdom opened the way for the spirit of Antichrist to advance as never before. All the sovereign Christian monarchies fell. Republicanism and secular democracy, a reflection of masonic hermeticism, took over. Read how the Masons in Portugal assassinated King Carlos in 1908. Archduke Ferdinand’s assassination was also apparently a masonic plot. “Destroy throne and altar” is the masonic motto. Of course the Masons and esoteric Jewish plutocrats worked in tandem. The work of Monsignor Jouin is instructive in this regard. I sympathize with traditionalist Catholic monarchists who understand, as do many Orthodox, why monarchy is important. There are many Orthodox prophecies that one day, God will send a Tsar to Russia, (not Putin), which will lead to a renewal of the Christian order. With a Christian commonwealth, not the fake decadent monarchies in Europe, maybe there will be a restoration. I know Dr. Jones that you don’t like “conspiracy theories,” but I recommend the work of traditional Catholics such as Randy Engel, Craig Heimbichner and others. There are truly demonic forces ensconced in the Roman Curia and the upper echelons of some Orthodox local forces, infiltrators who want to pervert the liturgy as they perverted the Roman mass. May we be worthy to see the restoration of Christian monarchy and may we see the Orthodox Tsar on his throne, putting fear into the hearts of the unbelievers and mockers of God. Saint Mark of Ephesus, pray for us, and thank you for that simple gesture of not signing the Union. I will pray for you Dr. Jones. I like your work on the role of the “you know who” in destroying American and European culture. God bless you for all your hard work and good faith and sacrifice over all these years. You could have been a conformist and bowed down to the liberal scoundrels in academia, but a little bit like Saint Mark of Ephesus, you stuck to your principles. God bless you for that. Sincerely, Orthodox Sinner

    • Thanks: R2b
  3. One thing about COVID-19, that I’m not clear on is the vaccines. For example, do the vaccines offer better immunity than exposure to the real virus?

    Shouldn’t exposure to the real virus offer better immunity? Couldn’t they issue a passport based on whether you have antibodies for the virus instead of actual jabs?

    I guess we don’t know the long term effects of the virus or the vaccines.

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
    , @aj54
  4. Why the “Nazi doctors”? The NSDAP imported the eugenics idea from the US, and stopped it when the public began to protest? The US version is much crueler – starvation and/or deprivation of medical care.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @gkruz
  5. Tom Verso says:

    I was listening to this podcast while cooking dinner. Then at about 22:00 on the tape I heard Mr Jones say:
    “We have to contextualize these so-called numbers.

    These numbers that they bring up invariably [are wrong]… such as Paul Ehrich book 1968 book “The Population Bomb”, which argues that India was going to starve to death by 1976.”

    I was so stunned by that comment that I burned my rue. At dinner my wife wanted know why there was no gravy.

    What stunned me is that about an hour before I posted a comment on Ron Unz’s article “American Pravda: Covid-19, Its Impact and Origins After One Year”.

    In that comment I noted that the statistical analysis of Covid death numbers was not based on any verifiable valid measures of the numbers of deaths attributed to Covid in the US let alone in the world. (If interested in details see my comment #130 under the article)

    I was arguing exactly as Jones that these death numbers are in fact “so-called numbers”. Like Ehdrich, today’s Covid ‘the sky is falling’ commentators are bogus analysts.

    The real mystery to me, is why an absolutely brilliant statistical analyst like Ron Unz is failing to at least comment on the methodologies use to generate Covid death numbers.

    Clearly he knows better!

  6. Tom Verso says:
    @Orthodox Response to Jones

    I find you discussion of the conflict between the Orthodox and Latins very interesting.

    The great classical scholar and world historian Arnold J Toynbee, in his 12-volume opus “A Study of History”, posited that Western Civilization was distinct from the Orthodox Christian Civilization. While both traces their common origins in the Hellenic (aka Greco Roman) Civilization.

    Your anecdote about Saint Mark of Ephesus supports the Toynbee thesis.

    Apart from the clash of religions, today the clash between the West and Russia further supports Toynbee. Putin recently said, something like:
    “About once every century the West invades Russia and gets defeated.”

    Personally, I wonder: while they are two distinct civilizations, the common Hellenic roots keeps they pulling at one another. They are like Siamese twins that have been physically separated surgically; but psychologically they are still bound.

    Today one reads much about how Russia is turning away from Europe and seeking close relations with China. To my mind Russia may make trade and military alliances with China; but it will always be spiritually bound to its separated twin – Western Civilization (aka Christendom).

  7. Tom Verso says:
    @Orthodox Response to Jones

    You suggest that Mr. Jones read Randy Engel.

    I suggest that you reconsider that recommendation.

    Jones and Engel have gone ‘head-to-head’, as it were, over Engel’s repeated emphatic claim that Jones is a member of Opus Dei; which Jones repeatedly and vociferously denies.

  8. Thanks for posting a very interesting discussion. It is terrifying because it is so believable that people on the Bill Gates level are using this virus to eliminate the elderly. It is a wonder if China did not do the same.

    • Replies: @Alexandros
    , @Getaclue
  9. @Jefferson Temple

    Why would Bill Gates care about the elderly? He’s not paying for them. We are.

    • Replies: @Jefferson Temple
  10. Getaclue says:
    @Jefferson Temple

    So why does Bill Gates really want “depopulation”? Who is he serving? Bill Gates admitted in 2019 that he is in fact a Satanist. Perhaps that answers these questions?

    “Minor Wizard” = rank of Satanist below highest rank of High Wizard — Gates admits he is a “minor Wizard” and deals with “Spells” — this is the person who wants to put a needle in your arm for “depopulation” as he has said…Here is the CNBC interview in 2019 where he stated this admission:

    Ex-Satanist Zachary King says Gates is a Satanist and he worked with him and Gates drinks Adrenochrome. This information is contained in this interview:

    Gates hires Satanist Artist last Good Friday. Why do this? Who does this?:

    Gate’s wife wears upside down Crucifix = Satanist?:

    Head of NWO Rothschild with Satan painting and Satanic Gate’s “artist” — What is he (they) telling us?:

  11. @si1ver1ock

    Read this now:

    If I understand him correctly, Geert Vanden Bossche is saying that vaccines designed to trigger a flood of antibodies actually suppress the innate immune system, the body’s first and most important line of defense. Additionally, the antibodies created by vaccines will inevitably become “sub-optimal” as the virus mutates faster than the vaccine makers can keep up. So not only will vaccinated people be increasingly vulnerable to new variants, and perhaps lethal ADE reactions, but more importantly, vaccination programs (and to a lesser extent measures like masking/distancing/lockdowns) will breed a supervirus capable of immune escape. If he’s right, 2021 will make 2020 look like the proverbial walk in the park.

    As I wrote in my forthcoming AFP article:

    Vanden Bossche, one of the world’s top vaccine experts, recently published an “Open Letter to the WHO: Immediately Halt All Covid-19 Mass Vaccinations.” Vanden Bossche’s letter should be read by every American. In it he argues that all vaccine experts know, or used to know, that you can’t stop a pandemic through mass vaccinations. Vaccines, he says, are prophylactics that can only stop pandemics before they begin. Once there’s a pandemic, it’s too late: Vaccines will merely “teach” the virus how to become more and more lethal, and ultimately how to escape the immune system completely, potentially killing billions and ending civilization. The mutant variants we are now seeing, he writes, are the beginning of that process.

    Vanden Bosche suggests that anyone who wanted to create a disastrous die-off and civilizational catastrophe could hardly find a better method than the current mass vaccination campaigns. Which raises the question: Is this deliberate? Have our Malthusian elites, who say our planet can only support half a billion people rather than the current 7.8 billion, finally decided to act?

  12. @Tom Verso

    Thanks for the info. It doesn’t surprise me. Jones doesn’t want to go to the “meta-level” as it were. As far as I know, the Orthodox are of divided opinion as to the extent of the validity of the Roman Mass and its communion. For example, it has one of the oldest Canons in Christendom. The Roman Mass (Missale Romanum) is definitely an expression of piety and ancient tradition, despite the filioque and communion with bread alone and other innovations. The New Mass (Novus Ordo Missae) of Paul VI is pure heresy though. It is full of masonic references. Msgr. Bungini, the architect of the Novus Ordo mass, was thought to be a Freemason. The most awful part of the New Mass is the Offertory, when the priest says: “Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation, for through your goodness we have received the wine we offer you: fruit of the vine and work of human hands, it will become our spiritual drink.” This is almost a direct translation of the Rabbinic Jewish blessing over the wine glass: “Baruh ata Adonai, meleh ha-olam, borei p’ri ha-gefen.” It’s a mockery of the original Roman mass. Moreover, “work of human hands” is pure blasphemy. It’s as if man affects the “transubtantiation” of the wine into the blood of Christ. There are plenty of other examples of this. Masonic rituals are full of hermetic symbolism. And the Masonic religion believes in hermeticism. So for the Masons, to insert their gnostic spirituality into the New Mass would be a supreme feat. Lex orandi lex credendi. I believe that the new mass in invalid. I spoke to an Orthodox monk who was a former Catholic priest. He said that the worst innovations of the New Mass are the priest facing the people and especially communion in the hand. “Communion in the hand” is almost like host desecration. And all the other liturgical innovations are truly heretical and blasphemous sacrilege. I know many Catholics who converted to Orthodoxy. I couldn’t take the Novus Ordo mass seriously, especially after discovering its background and true nature through my research. I overcame by Catholic biases, repented, and converted to Orthodoxy. I would rather be in schism with Rome and Orthodox than celebrating a heretical New Mass under an apostate Pope and New World Order agent who prays at the Western Wall in Jerusalem, etc. Nevertheless, the Roman Church does good work in Africa and other places. Better Catholicism than pagan indigenous religions. Sadly, the Orthodox have largely failed as missionaries. Jones gets obsessed with the minutia. It’s not a cultural struggle, it’s a spiritual struggle. The New Mass destroyed the faith of millions of good Catholics who simply stopped going to church on Sunday. I believe that that was the secret intention of the New Mass, to make Catholics indifferent to their faith, to turn the Roman mass into a Protestant celebration of the “Lord’s Supper.” I couldn’t take it seriously as a young man and stopped going to church. The last time I went to confession and received communion in the Roman church was when I was in high school. It was a life-changing experience to receive the holy mysteries in the Orthodox Church. I hope I am not saying this to be proud but merely as an expression of my disagreement with Jones and his ilk who want to pretend that broken-down car of the Novus Ordo mass can still be fixed if the priest has the “proper intention.” I am afraid it can’t. And then what happens? You are not worshipping, but a piece of bread, which is tantamount to idolatry. In the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom, to paraphrase the story of the Russian emissaries who visited Haghia Sophia before the conversion of Saint Vladimir the Great, “we did not know whether we were on earth or in heaven.” The Divine Liturgy is an earthly image of the divine worship in heaven, and the closest one can come in this life to witnessing the eternal liturgy in heaven.

  13. Mike Hunt says:

    OK – so now simply believing in the timeless adage “women and children first” means you’re a Nazi eugenicist?! Whoever buys that load of garbage needs their man card permanently revoked. Don’t hold your breath for the Boomers to feel any shame for their utter selfishness though. No child can play sports or go outside or attend school so that they might squeeze a few more dollars from Social Security and Medicare. Talk about worshiping Moloch…

    • Replies: @Liza
  14. Petermx says:

    “The low fertility rate in the West is due to massive third-world immigration and outsourcing, which has made it difficult for young people to earn a steady income and raise a family.” I don’t believe so. The low fertility rate is due to making the birth control pill available to any woman, legalizing abortion and making it very easy to get at any time, encouraging sexual relationships without emotional attachment and saying the marriage certificate is just a “piece of paper” (people are less likely to want to have a child together if they are not married), undermining the church and family by encouraging and forcing the church to accept homosexual priests and then demonizing that same church when those homosexual priests pushed themselves on little boys. All these things were pushed by Jews in order to break down the family and people’s traditional loyalty to their parents and their country and people and Jews wanted this because a unified people won’t put up with Jewish hatred directed at them. These changes began in the 1960’s.

    • Replies: @Tony
    , @Lurker
  15. Anon[211] • Disclaimer says:

    If you want to be really cold-blooded about it, what needs to be killed off is the elderly working-class, not the middle- or upper-classes.

    The working class is the one without private health insurance, so they have to go on Medicaid. If they were euthanized at age 65, they would no longer be a burden on society. The government would save money on their Medicaid expenses, and wouldn’t have to pay Social Security for them. This would be a hefty government savings. The working class tends not to live as long anyway because they are more likely to have expensive medical conditions. They are more likely to have cancer and diabetes, etc., and they’re costly to take care of because their bad habits lead to poor health.

    As has been show, the working class doesn’t make an appointment to see a doctor for treatment, they just go the the emergency room and are changed an even higher price, which they can’t pay, and which gets passed onto other, more well-heeled patients which as the middle-class and upper-class.

    Blacks and Hispanics together make up most of our working class nowadays, and they put a greater burden on our government’s finances than whites do. If our country was only white, it would support itself fine. Blacks and Hispanics take more in government money via welfare, food stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security than they provide in taxes. If we didn’t have minorities, our cities would be in excellent financial shape.

    Therefore, all blacks and Hispanics older than 65 should be terminated.

    • Replies: @Resartus
  16. R2b says:

    Of course, it is paramount, cause we gotta populate this world!
    Forgot how to do it?
    You embarrass. Me.
    Und so weiter.
    Just do it.
    And create a family..
    Do I. Have to tell you how to do it??
    Do you want me to spell it out to you children of among others of mine!?!
    All you, of which I Love, do not reason, but instead, form, create a family, and that is your very connection to real life.
    Then go to Scripture, the Bible.
    Eat the Word.

  17. @Orthodox Response to Jones

    No matter what you say the poor RC can go before the judgement seat and say in good conscience “I believed the promise that was given to Cephas” according to the bible. No other Church has that promise regarding forgiveness.

    Incidentally the nearest I can think to the papacy is the Great House (per aha, pharaoh) in Ancient Egypt. The divine King (who was the chief priest as well as political head) is shown often with the heiroglyph for union of the two halves of Egypt. Pope John Paul described the eastern and western churches as the “two lungs” of Christianity. The heiroglyph for union is Gardiner F36, which is also is used for the stolist priest, is the two lungs.

  18. Resartus says:

    Therefore, all blacks and Hispanics older than 65 should be terminated.

    Put Politicians at the top of that list……

  19. @Kevin Barrett

    Thanks for the solicitation via your AFP article. So who’s the doctor stepping out of line in his panic?

  20. Why vaccinate America’s new Hero class, medical personnel?
    Why would the evil-doers want to eradicate the people whose job & skills are to save lives.
    [Palm-to-face: because they would save lives.]

    How to think about fact that a majority of military personnel decline to take the vaccine, and can legitimately do so?

  21. @Kevin Barrett

    Vanden Bossche, one of the world’s top vaccine experts, recently published an “Open Letter to the WHO: Immediately Halt All Covid-19 Mass Vaccinations.”


    Here it is verbatim by the way:

  22. Schuetze says:

    In this discussion, Kevin Barrett says:

    “People who are onboard with this malthusian religion… People who buy into the nazi world view and its biological pseudo religion worshipping making a better race sacrificing those who are unfit, unworthy of life… they have turned that into a religion, that is to some extent what the Nazi’s did”

    Barrett thrashes his “Eugenacist Nazi” Strawman. Of course anyone who denies any of the myriad of lies about the NSDAP and what happened to Germany during WWII is painted with this broad brush. Germany and Germans are defamed and disparaged. What a douchebag, but he is a Muslim anyway.

    Although it is not clear what Ehret’s true race is, he sure looks like a jew and his name sounds like a jewish one too. We never hear, nor have I ever read in his articles, that he is Christian. So there is a very good chance that Barret is discussing “Nazi” eugenicism with the planets self proclaimed chosen people, the very tribe that attempted to genocide all Germans after WWI and WWII, who are currently committing eugenic sterilization against black Ethiopian jews, and who are currently genociding the real owners of Israel, the Palestinians.

    Barret and Ehret also discuss how the Chinese with their OBOR are trying to better the lives of their own people, and those of central Asia, while conveniently neglecting to mention how the Kaisers railway from Berlin to Baghdad would have served exactly the same purpose and was one of the main reasons Germany had to be genocided, or how Hitler took Germany out of starvation to prosperity and created the Autobahns to link the länder together, or even how Finland, Hungary, Romania, Italy and even Spain participated in Barbarossa to free all of Europe and the Christian church from communist jews.

    How intellectually dishonest, how typically Kevin Barrett.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Insouciant
  23. @Kevin Barrett

    One thing that boggles my mind is that most anti-vaxxers also happen to be pro-therapeutics. Those people are rabid defenders of drugs like hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, etc.

    Isn’t it plausible that those drugs are *more* liable to exert evolutionary pressure on the virus than vaccines, because (1) they are not as effective, (2) they are almost always applied to people who already have the virus; and (3) they are applied in a scattershod manner?

    As a layman, I would welcome any comment on that issue, especially if you have some knowledge in that area.

    • Replies: @Insouciant
  24. Skeptikal says:

    Germans and German Jews share a lot of names.

    So, be careful about slinging around wild ad hominems, lest you end up looking like a fool who cannot think for himself.

    Just assess the ideas on their merits.

    It is pretty silly if one and the same set of ideas is OK if a Gentile proposes it, but s— if the same thing is said by someone who just may be Jewish.

    • Replies: @HdC
    , @Schuetze
  25. HdC says:

    No, they may seem German to non-German speakers, but they are not.
    Goldstein, Epstein, Silberman, Rosenkranz, etc. etc. may sound German but they are not surnames of the typically German.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  26. Schuetze says:

    “It is pretty silly if one and the same set of ideas is OK if a Gentile proposes it, but s— if the same thing is said by someone who just may be Jewish.”

    So if a jew blathers on about “white privilege” at Harvard, or in the media, or in banking, or in the pharma industry, or judges at SCOTUS, while ignoring that jews are 10x over represented and European whites are 10x underrepresented, that is not even silly, it is okay because, well, the Talmud says that they are gods chosen. But, if a white European says jews are over represented that is criminal anti-semitism. Got it. Good on ya.

    • Agree: Polistra
  27. @Schuetze

    Agree: quoted statement by Barrett is intellectually dishonest and also abusive of his audience.

    (btw: Just came across a paper by one James E. Senseney, a PhD diss. from 1985 on “Adult Education of Germans post-WWII.” Senseney, who was a US soldier in Germany in WWII, is pleased that adult education “returned to Weimar” standards. That is, a time when Jews were running most of the forms that Germans objected to.
    Senseney wrote:

    During the last half of 1945, the population of Germany fell into many groups, among which were: the multitude of children wandering the streets, due to the closing of the schools, the men who had been released from prisoner of war confinement, and the women who had, after twelve years, been freed of the Nazi dictate of “children, church and kitchen” as the sphere of interest for females. The Influences of the Western Allies on German Adult Education 1945-1953

    Senseney disapproves of the Nazi dictat. Ironic how Senseney puts the lie to Barrett’s allegation that NSDAP was eugenically-driven and anti-Christian.)

    Also agree with Skeptikal that it is unfair to dismiss Ehret because “his name might be Jewish.”

    But to be “intellectually honest” myself, I have to admit: Gradually I came to hate them.
    The more I learn about what Jewish people have done — specific, namable Jewish leaders and influencers, a white-hot hatred takes hold.
    What was done to the German people, provoked by Jewish leaders and influencers, is unfathomably evil. Same for Russians at hands of Bolsheviks, and Holodomor; similar for US-perpetrated crimes against Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria — all carried out by good Anglo (white) “willing executioners” on behalf of – and for benefit of Jewish zionists & globocap.
    Crimes that cry to heaven for vengeance.

    Because those crimes have been covered up all these years and the victims blamed as the criminals, the populace fails to recognize the pattern: it is now being done to us.

    Surprising that Barrett, so committed to unveiling the real perpetrators of 9/11, does not recognize that the pattern stretches well before 2001.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
  28. @Brás Cubas

    Isn’t it plausible that those drugs are *more* liable to exert evolutionary pressure on the virus than vaccines, because (1) they are not as effective, (2) they are almost always applied to people who already have the virus; and (3) they are applied in a scattershod manner?

    Layman myself; medically maybe less than ‘layman.’

    But managed to get myself, spouse & children through combined 189 years of life, including all the colds, infections, accidents that occur over that span.

    Just consider the common cold, probably most frequently encountered malady over that 189 year span. Colds were treated with orange juice, chicken soup, aspirin, whiskey, decongestants & other rather common OTC & home remedies.
    So insert “colds”and “home remedies” into your statement, above:

    Isn’t it plausible that those drugs home remedies are *more* liable to exert evolutionary pressure on the virus common cold than vaccines, because (1) they are not as effective, (2) they are almost always applied to people who already have the virus; common cold and (3) they are applied in a scattershod manner?

    Answer your own questions: Has the use of chicken soup to alleviate symptoms of common cold exerted “evolutionary pressure” on common cold?

    another line of thought:

    Chicken soup, etc. treated symptoms — keep the body energized and comforted while the body’s innate, immune system takes over, does its thing.
    As Sherri Tenpenny explained, (my paraphrase) the immune system attacking, i.e. a cold or viral infection has two phases: 1. = all out attack — killer mode; 2. EQUALLY important = drive the killer-attackers back so that the cells’ natural functions can re-assert themselves.

    According to Tenpenny, (and maybe it’s what vanden Bossche is saying also), mRNA activates the killer cells but not the ‘back to normal’ cells.

    So Chicken soup, and hydroxichloroquinine etc. act to alleviate symptoms & give comfort while “killer cells” do their thing, then killer cells naturally abate as immune system’s second phase takes over.

  29. @Insouciant

    Vanden Bossche seems to be saying that vaccines strongly suppress the innate immune system in the short term (weeks) and may degrade it over the long term (months and years) and that this is related to their propensity to create immune escape. I don’t think drug treatments do that. Vitamin D, good diet, and exercise definitely don’t. They work by strengthening the innate immune system.

    If governments are going to inflict mandatory health measures on populations, they should mandate optimally healthy lifestyles. According to Josh Mittledorf that would add about ten years of healthy life expectancy, which is more than four times more than we would get from completely eliminating cancer (or COVID-19 for that matter).

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @Insouciant
  30. @Insouciant

    Sorry, but, with the caveat (again) that I am not an expert on those things, you are probably wrong about hydroxychloroquine’s purported effects and (as a consequence) most everything else in your comment.

    Hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and other drugs usually proposed as therapeutics to Covid-19, used either separately or in combination, are not used merely to alleviate symptoms. They are intended to fight the virus, e.g., by inhibiting its replication or by making it harder for them to penetrate a cell. So, your comparison with “home remedies”, except when those “home remedies” have antiviral properties, which, as far as I know, none of those you cite has, is inappropriate.

    But I thank you anyway for the reply, and hope others come forward with facts, opinions, guesses, hunches, hearsay evidence, anything, regarding my previous comment or this one.

    • Agree: Von Rho
  31. @Kevin Barrett

    I don’t think drug treatments do that.

    Why not? A drug like ivermectin which is said to inhibit viral replication, but is allegedly only partially effective, would be exerting some selection pressure on the virus, wouldn’t it? Wouldn’t mutated forms of the virus which are somehow resistant to that drug’s effect survive and become dominant? This is a process which is widely known in the case of bacteria: antibiotics (which are drugs, don’t forget it) are becoming less effective because bacteria are mutating and becoming resistant to them. Do you think the fact that we are dealing with viruses instead of bacteria makes it any different? Why would that be?

  32. Tony says:

    Hey stunardo, gays joined the priesthood so nobody would question them about not being married. It was the perfect place for gays to hide. Nobody forced them into being priests.

    • Troll: Petermx
  33. @Kevin Barrett

    & Brás Cubas –

    re: “propensity to create immune escape”

    “Immune escape” a term of art, frequently used with reference to cancer.

    lack of ability of the immune system to eliminate transformed cells prior to and after [cancer] tumor development.
    a strategy used by pathogenic organisms and tumours to evade a host’s immune response to maximize their probability of being transmitted to a fresh host or to continue growing, respectively.

    Different category from my “treat cold with chicken soup” home-spun.

    As it happens, I’m dealing with cancer. One year ago yesterday had the fourth surgery, followed by radiation. If the cancer once again “evades the immune response,” I’m out of options.
    Oncologist has told me that having had cancer increases the likelihood that I will again have cancer. Also, radiation is cancer-causing.
    Short term, the cancerous growth has been removed. But long term? “You will know treatment was successful if cancer does not return.”

    The question becomes, do hydroxychloroquinine and Ivermectin suppress the immune system; that is, applying the immune escape re: cancer analogy, are they comparable to radiation, which may be a causal agent.

    Or do hydroxy & Ivermectin work in an altogether different way, as defenders of the body’s cells and organs rather than attackers of the invading virus: those therapies are auxiliaries to the immune responses — strengthening white blood cells to fight infection and shore up attacked organs and cells but not in a way that attempts to kill the virus.

    Barrett’s suggestion is sound: good diet, exercise, Vitamin D are the best course of action to resist / prevent virus infection, and would, in an honest public health system be mandated.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @Brás Cubas
  34. Wally says:

    Indeed. The German T4 eugenics program addressed horrific suffering, was legal, publicly known, families were consulted, and completely normal. Euthanasia programs exist worldwide.

    There is not a shred of proof to the contrary.

    The same can be said about the absurd claims made about Dr. Mengele.

    Evidence for the German Euthanasia Program Compared to the “Holocaust”
    By John Wear:
    more on the T4 program:
    more on Mengele:

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  35. @Insouciant

    The question becomes, do hydroxychloroquinine and Ivermectin suppress the immune system; that is, applying the immune escape re: cancer analogy, are they comparable to radiation, which may be a causal agent.

    When you suppress the immune system, you actually reduce the evolutionary pressure on the pathogen. Only when the pathogen is attacked, yet in a less than 100% effective manner, is that you exert evolutionary pressure on the pathogen, favoring mutations which the attacker agents are unable to kill.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  36. @Insouciant

    Sorry, please ignore my other reply, because it’s probably incorrect. I tried to rewrite it, but couldn’t do it in time.

    My real reply is this: I think you may have a point there. I’ve read that immunocompromised patients are a breeding ground for variants, due to the wild virus replication that goes on inside their bodies.

    My preliminary conclusion is that, while those drugs we are discussing may not be all that effective, my specific fears about them are probably unfounded.

    I thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience with us.

  37. @Brás Cubas

    Sorry, ignore that comment. Read my other reply instead.

  38. Liza says:
    @Mike Hunt

    How are you going to handle things when you get old? Just lie down and die? Or will you squeeze whatever $$$ you can from social security and medicare?

  39. gkruz says:

    Jones doesn’t want to solve the jewish problem. That would kill his gig. He does not believe that jews are evil parasites because of their genetics, but because they rejected the Logos/Christ but can be saved by conversion to Catholicism.

  40. Skeptikal says:

    “No, they may seem German to non-German speakers, but they are not.”

    Well, I guess you should tell that to your friend Schuetze, because he is the one saying that Matthew Ehret looks Jewish and that based on his *German* name he could well be Jewish.

    I think this is nutty—here is a Wiki page of people with the name Ehret:

    This crowd doesn’t look too Jewish to me; in fact it looks as though there is a cluster from southwestern Germany, which suggests maybe a French influence in the name.

    (Of course a Jewish woman could marry a Gentile man. However, Shuetze’s mode of argumentation is shallow and a bit paranoid.)

    In fact, however, many many Gentile and Jewish Germans have the same last name.
    One obvious example: Alfred Rosenberg.
    Uebrigens, ich spreche deutsch. Du? Ich denke, nicht. Genau wie Schuetze.

    You cherry-picked some names that are indeed typically Jewish and not typically German: Goldstein, Epstein, Silberman, Rosenkranz. I guess these are the only “German” names you know. Although I think many of those names of Jewish Americans—-those ending in -stein— are actually retoolings of Polish surnames.

    You never heard of Meyer, Schneider, Kaufmann, Schumacher, etc.
    Then a lot of Germans also have/had Polish names.

    • Replies: @HdC
  41. Skeptikal says:

    ” families were consulted,”

    You are pathetic.
    If you spoke German you would know of the piles of “shreds” to the contrary.
    What a Depp. You might have ended up in the T4 program for sheer stupidity.

  42. Lurker says:

    The low birth rate has many fathers.

    Economics, immigration, female hormones in the water supply, poor diet, propagandising for deferred parenthood, outright anti-family propaganda. Encouraging trannies helps too – a successful post-op trannie is a sterilised person. I’m sure we can think of many more.

    The people who seem to want all this see the big picture. Get an extra 10,000 people to stay in college for three years – thats child rearing delayed by three years. Then they get saddled with student debt, thats going to delay it further. Now they have the proverbial useless degree which retards their earning ability and delays child rearing further. Its all good.

  43. HdC says:

    By no means was I trying to write an all-encompassing opinion on German sounding Jewish surnames; I merely gave an example.
    I have a minor in German because I wanted to listen to AH speeches without having to put up with a translator’s bias.
    You are very free with your opinions about others, with none of them based on facts. Better practice your mindreading skills.
    PS.: You left out Mueller, Meier, & Schulze in your last paragraph.
    It does not surprise me that there are many German surnames with French, Polish, Hungarian, or Russian origin. After all, the modern German nation was assembled from 300! various political entities. And the border regions would have substantial inter-marriages or other interaction.
    As AH stated, anyone is welcome to live in Germany and become a German provided they adopt German mores and obey Germany’s laws.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  44. @Orthodox Response to Jones

    In the entire world there are nine Catholics who are interested in the propagandistic polemics of the eastern schismatic heretics whereas there are only nine members of the eastern schismatic heretics who were educated outside of the inane Catholics-suck-because catechism.

  45. Skeptikal says:

    “You left out Mueller, Meier, & Schulze in your last paragraph”

    I didn’t “leave anything out” in my last paragraph, Depp.
    I wrote a few examples, not an encyclopedia.
    It is you who left out a whole lot in your first post when you listed merely names ending with “stein.”

    Your post looked, by the way, as though you hadn’t read Schuetze’s Affenpost.
    Bravo to you, German minor, for shwoing that you know a few other German names, or at least know how to look them up.

    As for my opinions, sure, I go on the evidence freely presented.

    Jetzt ist Schluss.

    • Replies: @HdC
  46. aj54 says:

    naturally acquired immunity is always better, especially with this vaccine. Some places plan the passport based on immunity rather than vaccination status

  47. HdC says:

    “Depp”. Ad hominem attacks are the final refuge of the out-argued scoundrel.

  48. I noticed that Matt described the same phenomenon that Belloc did in his last chapter of ‘The Great Heresies’ with regards to education. I wonder if he is familiar with that work. Surely Mr. Jones noticed it.

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