The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 Chris Roberts Archive
Will Asians Stay Woke?
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

In presidential elections, the Republican Party used to win the majority of Asian votes. Now it barely wins more than a quarter.

Year GOP Share of the Asian Vote Third Party Share of the Asian Vote
1992 55 percent 15 percent
1996 48 percent 8 percent
2000 41 percent 3-4 percent
2004 43 percent N/A
2008 35 percent N/A
2012 26 percent N/A
2016 27 percent 6 percent

In 2012 and 2016, the GOP’s share of Asian support was even lower than its Hispanic share. Every Asian in the Senate and Congress is a Democrat, including some of the most progressive and anti-Trump: Judy Chu, Ted Lieu, Pramila Jayapal, Kamala Harris, and Ro Khanna. In media, most prominent Asians are well left of center, such as: Christiane Amanpour, Fareed Zakaria, Bhaskar Sunkara, and Jeet Heer.

Many analysts are surprised by how left-wing Asians have become. They have many characteristics that usually indicate conservatism: above-average income, good high school graduation rates, high marriage rates, low divorce rates, high business ownership rates, low welfare use, and they commit little crime. They also are on the losing end of affirmative action and quotas, and many come from nations that have suffered Communist rule and/or Islamic terrorism.

President Richard Nixon with Senator Hiram Fong (HI) in 1972. Fong was the first Asian ever elected to the Senate, and a Republican.
President Richard Nixon with Senator Hiram Fong (HI) in 1972. Fong was the first Asian ever elected to the Senate, and a Republican.

This was true 30 years ago, when the majority of Asians voted Republican, and it is still true. What changed? In 2012, Professor Richard Posner suggested that many people vote for non-material reasons:

The voting behavior of Asian Americans appears puzzling, however, only in light of the widespread belief that people vote their interests, that is, vote for the candidate whom they think most likely to promote policies favorable to them. But many voters don’t vote their interests . . . voting is more an expressive than an instrumental act: more like applauding at a play or concert than buying a lottery ticket.

Prof. Posner suggested that many people, including Asians, see the GOP as the party of whites — especially rural and southern whites — militant Christianity, and war, and Democrats as the party of the well-educated, the urban elites, cosmopolitans, and non-whites. Asians who want to prove to themselves and others that they are well educated and culturally literate vote Democrat. Charles Murray reached a similar conclusion after Barack Obama won reelection with 73 percent of the Asian vote:

[S]omething has happened to define conservatism in the minds of Asians as deeply unattractive, despite all the reasons that should naturally lead them to vote for a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth. I propose that the explanation is simple. Those are not the themes that define the Republican Party in the public mind. Republicans are seen by Asians — as they are by Latinos, blacks, and some large proportion of whites — as the party of Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationists.

It is now less common than in 2012 to dismiss the GOP as the party of Evangelical fanatics. Instead, it’s more common to say it’s the party of “white grievance,” which is, if anything more offensive to liberal elites, and equally unappealing to non-whites.

President Barack Obama greets people in the audience after delivering the keynote address at the Asian Pacific American Institute for Congressional Studies 18th Annual Gala Dinner May 8, 2012. in Washington, District of Columbia (Credit Image: © Pete Souza / The White House / ZUMAPRESS.com)
President Barack Obama greets people in the audience after delivering the keynote address at the Asian Pacific American Institute for Congressional Studies 18th Annual Gala Dinner May 8, 2012. in Washington, District of Columbia (Credit Image: © Pete Souza / The White House / ZUMAPRESS.com)

Essayist Rob Henderson argues that one way American elites show off their status is through “woke” ideology about race and sex. Until recently, only universities taught this mush, and it takes an above-average intelligence to understand ideas that make so little sense. They signal that believers have the leisure to study convoluted abstractions. Asians value education, status, and money, but it takes more than money and a degree to join the liberal elite: You need to speak the language of woke academics. So Asians, many of whom are within striking distance of the upper class, have “gone woke” in their quest for upward mobility. In more race realist terms, Asians tend to be conformists, not independent thinkers, and have adopted the norms of the class they want to join.

Can that change?

There are two ways Asians could return to the GOP.

The first is that America’s elite, with its high number of Asians, could shift to the Right, or at least become less woke. Historically, elites tend to be conservative; America’s current ruling class is unique. In The Bell Curve, Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein speculated that:

The tension between what the white elite is supposed to think and what it is actually thinking about race will reach something close to breaking point. This pessimistic prognosis must be contemplated: When the break comes, the result, as so often happens when cognitive dissonance is resolved, will be an overreaction in the other direction. Instead of the candor and realism about race that is so urgently needed, the nation will be faced with racial divisiveness and hostility that is as great as, or greater, than America experienced before the civil rights movement. We realize how outlandish it seems to predict that educated and influential Americans, who have been so puritanical about racial conversation, will openly revert to racism. We would not go so far as to say it is probable. It is, however, more than just possible. If it were to happen, all the scenarios for the custodial state would be more unpleasant — more vicious — than anyone can now imagine.

The elite is now white and Asian, but the cognitive dissonance is the same. As Joe Sobran said, “In their mating and migratory habits, liberals are indistinguishable from members of the Ku Klux Klan.” Upper-class whites and Asians buy houses far from blacks and Hispanics and send their children to schools with few blacks and Hispanics — as they vote for candidates who promote integration, immigration, high taxes, and lax crime laws. One day, the elite may break these dangerous habits and become conservative, perhaps dramatically. If this change happens, Asians will be a big part of it.

Koreans for Trump leader Dr. Lisa Shin addresses delegates on the final day of the Republican National Convention July 21, 2016 in Cleveland, Ohio. (Credit Image: © Richard Ellis / ZUMA Wire)
Koreans for Trump leader Dr. Lisa Shin addresses delegates on the final day of the Republican National Convention July 21, 2016 in Cleveland, Ohio. (Credit Image: © Richard Ellis / ZUMA Wire)

Asians will be more likely to vote Republican if they become middle class. Both the rich and the poor favor Democrats; the rich because of liberal posturing and the poor because of need. Right now, America’s Asians tend to be one or the other, with some groups poor and others rich (some of course are middle class).

Data from the five-year American Community Survey. The national poverty rate in 2015 was 13.5. Graph from Jacobin Magazine.
Data from the five-year American Community Survey. The national poverty rate in 2015 was 13.5. Graph from Jacobin Magazine.
The median household income nationally in 2015 was $56,516.
The median household income nationally in 2015 was $56,516.

This “middle class gap” can be found not just between Asian groups, but within them. As Bhaskar Sunkara said of Indian-Americans, “We’re either pumping your gas or we’re performing open-heart surgery.” Asian groups with poverty rates most similar to the national average, and with median incomes within the “Republican middle class” bracket of $50–75,000 a year, such as Koreans and Vietnamese, are the ones most likely to vote Republican. Not many rich Asians are likely to “fall” into the middle class, and less-intelligent Asian groups are likely to remain lower class.

One unpredictable influence on Asian voting will be immigration. Through immigration, Asians are increasing as a percentage of the population more quickly than any other race, but no one knows how many will arrive in the coming decades or from where.

China, India, and the Philippines have been three of the most common sources of Asian immigration for years, but even combined, they are not the dominant source of Asian immigration the way Mexico has been for Hispanics.

Disaster, famine, and war all influence immigration and can’t be predicted. The next Democrat President may grant refugee status to the Muslim Rohingya of Myanmar and flood us with tens of thousands (or even hundreds of thousands) of them. A war between India and Pakistan would increase immigration to the United States from both countries. So would civil war in Iran. Or famine in Thailand. These peoples are all different. Today, Asians are only 6 or 7 percent of the population, so newcomers could change overall Asian averages in income, education, IQ, etc. If future Asian-Americans end up middle class, they would be more likely to vote Republican.

But this change would take time, and in any case, future Asian immigrants could be uneducated peasants rather than entrepreneurs.

Rohingya people in Myanmar. Probably not future Republicans. (Credit Image: The Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office via Wikimedia)
Rohingya people in Myanmar. Probably not future Republicans. (Credit Image: The Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office via Wikimedia)

A change in elite attitudes would be the quickest way to bring sanity to American politics. Asians, uncowed by white guilt or accusations of privilege, might be best suited to make that happen. Last year, Andrew Yang’s bid for the Democrat presidential nomination drew tremendous support from Chinese donors — even from those who were generally conservative, and even though he did not make a direct ethnic appeal. An eloquent and capable conservative Asian who argued that the interests of Asians were at odds with Democrat policies could attract a lot of support.

So, will Asians stay woke? Probably — but if they wake up to reality, it would be especially good for the country.

(Republished from American Renaissance by permission of author or representative)
 
Hide 212 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Tulip says:

    Part of the shift in Asian voters is that the immigration waves shifted from heavily Christian Asians (who voted GOP) to Buddhist/Hindu/Muslim or Nones. It is a mistake to view Asians as monolithic.

    The GOP, for good or bad, is heavily identified with Evangelical Christians which can be off-putting to people from other religious traditions. A more secular GOP probably has a higher likelihood of attracting Asian voters. The problem for the GOP is that its needs something other than what it actually is (a front for corporate lobbyists) to attract voters, and its a pretty low bar to bring in the Evangelicals, just some empty promises about ending abortion and bringing back prayer in schools which don’t have any realistic chance to ever get enacted.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @Black Picard
  2. If future Asian-Americans end up middle class, they would be more likely to vote Republican.

    The only way that’s happening is if they import more of the Street Shitters, which Zion Don appears to be doing enthusiastically. Will they end up as middle class GOP voters, though? I’d rather be hoodrich in Asia than middle class in America. I’ve worked with plenty of Pajeets, and they’re content to suck the system dry, then go home and buy their mansion in Hyderabad.

    • LOL: 36 ulster
    • Replies: @ABCStar
  3. anon[712] • Disclaimer says:

    It just goes to show that Asians are easily manipulated by the media. The media portrays the Republicans as losers and the Democrats as sophisticated and winning and Asians vote accordingly. The gullibility of the East Asians especially is the almost universal acceptance of Corona masks. They’re worn by East Asiatics at work, on the street, and when they’re driving home alone in the car without any question. They just accept the lies of the television and internet propaganda as the gospel. If they were as smart as we’re always hearing they are, they would question the lack of logic and common sense in most covid policies put forth by corporations, government and academe, but instead, they just accept everything they hear like a bunch of low IQ morons.

  4. Steven80 says:

    Nowadays the “Asian” census consists of mostly Indians, Cambodians, Philipinons and other southern nations, that tend to like some version of oriental socilaism and generally have a lower IQ that the Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, North Chinese.
    Unless there is a breakup by ethnicity or birthplace, there is no point of discussing the previous and current wokeness. I’m pretty sure the Chinese in 1992 and the Chinese in 2020 tend to have sililar political aspirations.

    • Replies: @Pruckus
  5. Asian attitudes all depends on the strong horse. They’re yellow dogs and will follow whatever is deemed rich, powerful, or prestigious.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
  6. Nona says:

    As to Asians, I hardly think they care very much about the U.S. politics or voting. They’re here for the US$, to go into businesses (with their own orgs, thousands of orgs. and societies, which branch out – and they do have a great amount of money, come to the U.S. and take away the small, businesses, from the local, domestic Mom & Pop stores. This has taken place all over the Eastern Coast, in N.J, where the Koreans have taken over the liquor stores, the restaurants ( noodle houses, only) , and the hardware stores, and the Dollar Stores.

    The Indians have taken over the newspaper stores.

    • Replies: @Thomasina
  7. Antifa and BLM running wild in the streets may influence an Asian surge for Trump.

    The Tiger parents and small business owners don’t approve of law-and-order breakdowns.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  8. Bert33 says:

    How many are under the direct or indirect influence or control of countries of origin on the Asian continent? Re: Chinese operatives

  9. ABCStar says:
    @Supply and Demand

    Can u kinda chill?

    Btw,same pajeets seem to be owning everything they touch Wealth CHECK,Spelling Bee CHECk,Geo Bee CHECK,Science fairs CHECK.

    Btw excepting chinese ,the rest of asians seem to be an useless lot.Check their numbers in any event in USA ,they are not greatly represented even thought their population is quite high,like Koreans and Japanese ,Filipinos.They dont even seem to do quarter of what indians did when their population was similar in the past.

    Not much attention is being shown to their domination in science fairs.42 percent of them were finalists in STS last year even though they are less than 1 percent of the population.

    Bow to your Brown Masters.

  10. Essayist Rob Henderson argues that one way American elites show off their status is through “woke” ideology about race and sex. Until recently, only universities taught this mush, and it takes an above-average intelligence to understand ideas that make so little sense. They signal that believers have the leisure to study convoluted abstractions. Asians value education, status, and money, but it takes more than money and a degree to join the liberal elite: You need to speak the language of woke academics.

    I think modern art explains the modern world. Imagine an educated upper-class type looking at something like a Jackson Pollock painting and pontificating, nose in the air, “What is art? How do you define art? Can you say some art is better (sneer) than others? It’s all relative right?” etc.

    An average person would take one look and say “Yeah… my five year old could have done that.”

    Rob Henderson writes:

    Veblen proposed that the wealthy flaunt these symbols not because they are useful, but because they are so pricey or wasteful that only the wealthy can afford them, which is why they’re high-status indicators.

    Personally, I like knowing and speaking the plain truth. But maybe because the plain truth is available to anyone, it can’t have status value.

    So what to do? It’s not that I don’t care about status at all, but I certainly can’t bring myself to actually go along with this woke nonsense.

    The best strategy I’ve come up with is to just avoid these kinds of people, but it’s gotten harder because it keeps spreading. I don’t even try to argue with them anymore: it’s like wrestling with a pig, you both get dirty but the pig likes it.

  11. Given Trump’s yellow peril demagoguery about China, I can’t imagine many Asians supporting him.

  12. My wife being Vietnamese has given me a glimpse of the support they have for Donald Trump right now. All her friends and family are voting Trump, which is a complete reversal of their 2016 attitudes. Many of them (including my wife) have memories of the Communist takeover in 1975 and are unnerved by the civil unrest here lately. There is also a lot of anger at black criminality being perpetrated on Vietnamese business owners and citizens. Top it off with Trump taking on their traditional nemesis China. As for the American Chinese, a lot of them are voting Trump as well.

  13. Asians wok than woke.

  14. It is now less common than in 2012 to dismiss the GOP as the party of Evangelical fanatics. Instead, it’s more common to say it’s the party of “white grievance,”

    That’s good. The conversation needs to be about Whites as a group with interests, not some faith & values routine.

  15. Alvin says:
    @anon

    They’re smart in their technical areas of expertise at work, but rely on CNN for everything else.

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
  16. Alvin says:
    @Elmer T. Jones

    I notice the same with the Vietnamese in my community. Very anti-communist, like Cubans, which explains their pro-Republican leanings. What’s different about the Chinese? They have recent history of Mao and communist terror.

  17. Tor597 says:

    As a conservative Asian American, I can 100% confirm the first part of the article. Asian Americans see the Republican party as the party of white identity politics with very little redeeming qualities.

    To Asians, the Republican Party is for prole whites and Evangelicals who don’t believe in evolution or science. This is a big turn off for Asians who aren’t going to care about the abortion issue and Republicans have pretty much given up on any appealing angle like low taxes and eliminating the welfare state.

    The second part of the article basically says we are voting Democrat just because it is fashionable and Asians are conformist.

    This says more about Republicans who want to steroetype us as soulless robots. Sure Democrats are racist against Asians too and work against us with affirmative action. But at least Democrats are not outwardly hostile towards us like Republicans are.

    Even before Trump decided to call the pandemic the China Virus and white people started to attack Asians collectively, Asians could spot the underlying hostility.

    The last part of the article was just lame. So the authors idea on how to “fix asians” is to make us middle class and that will make us want to vote for Trump? Yeah right.

    If Republicans are actually serious about courting our vote:
    1) Quit being so outwardly hostile towards us.
    2) Actually stand for something that will make a difference like shrinking the government instead of pushing the abortion issue.
    3) Show an appreciation for intelligence and drop cringey issues like evolution.

    • Agree: d dan
    • LOL: Pop Warner
  18. @Elmer T. Jones

    I believe your statements about Vietnam, but Xinhua news polled American Born Chinese, 6,000 of them, and got roughly 5% of them supporting Trump. Yang’s endorsement of Biden was the clincher for most — not Trump’s anti-China rhetoric. They may be more faithful to the Dems than the negroes. They also are in no way benefitted by lying to the pollster.

  19. Tor597 says:
    @Beavertales

    No chance.

    Trump threw Asian Americans under the bus by pushing the whole “China Virus” angle. A lot of Asian Americans have faced significant discrimination because of that.

    Even if we don’t like crimes from protests and BLM, having to deal with a second Trump term would be MUCH worse for us.

  20. @Bert33

    They prefer whites like me for that.

  21. Tor597 says:
    @Bert33

    How many are under the direct or indirect influence or control of countries of origin on the Asian continent? Re: Chinese operatives

    And this is how the typical Republican views Asians.

  22. Tor597 says:
    @Elmer T. Jones

    Lol no.

    The bulk of Asians supporting Trump will be older like your wife and her friends. These people have horrible memories of their native country. The younger they are the more they will skew Democrat.

    I wouldn’t take what they tell you as how they will actually vote either. Oh, and communism has nothing to do with anything whatsoever.

    I do buy that Vietnamese are more likely to support Trump because they stand to benefit from an anti-China policy.

    As far as Chinese Americans, the ones most likely to vote for Trump will skew much older. Some Chinese Americans will vote for Trump because they know he is incompetent and not likely to succeed in getting China to do anything. See our trade deficit with China since Trump took office.

  23. gotmituns says:

    Will Asians Stay Woke?
    —————————–
    No, when the shit hits the fan here with the blacks, the Orientals will side with the White people, at least until the menace to humanity (blacks and jews) are dealt with.

  24. Bucky says:

    Yes, they will stay woke.

    The small businesses that are being robbed and vandalized are run by the first generation. Second generation tries to get corporate jobs in the office.

    The gop isn’t anti communist anymore. Anti communism gave the gop discipline and dignity. Communists were a good foe to have.

    Now the gop is the white racialist party. Asians are not opposed to that per se, but the white racialist party often targets them for hostility.

    • Replies: @Jake
  25. @anon

    Sorry to hurt your racial pride but where I live (upstate NY) everyone of people like you wears a diaper. Some diapers they wear are red white and blue and perhaps custom made. When I see good American slaves like these, I feel very proud and patriotic. You should be proud too.

    • Replies: @Ugetit
  26. @Elmer T. Jones

    Tell your wife and her friends to watch out for the white thugs black thugs Hispanic thugs who may attack her for being “Chinese” and for infecting them with the “Chinese virus”. They will not give her and her friends a chance to cry “But i am not Chinese!” Well, they don’t give a flying fuck. Of course, she and her friends can thank Trump and his mouth for this fair treatment.

    • Agree: Tor597, HeebHunter
  27. @Bert33

    That is true in different ways. With the Chinese there is really a very powerful rack of the CCP into the USA and its Chinese communities. With all other Asian communities it’s not that direct, but rather a soft power of cultural and financial allegiances and loyalties that are not at all to American or even just a general European affiliation to what Europeans produced … the societies and institutions we and they benefit from.

    What people have not yet realized (whether intentional or not) is that the “immigration” before and after 1960 are TOTALLY different things. Post 1960 is not even immigration, it’s literally population replacement; like a cuckoo that lays its egg in a different species’ nest to get them to raise they child and push their own out of the nest. They’re colonizing us and destroying us, and it’s a specific tribe of people that’s behind it,

  28. Arcadian says:

    If I were a Chinese/Asian and would listen to Trump talking about China it would be my last idea to vote for him. It is Trump’s hostility towards the Asians.

    • Agree: Tor597
    • Replies: @Eugene Norman
  29. Thomasina says:
    @Nona

    “As to Asians, I hardly think they care very much about the U.S. politics or voting. They’re here for the US$.”

    Yes. They are here ONLY for the money. They could care less about the Constitution, free speech, right to bear arms, or anything to do with the country.

    Citizens of convenience.

    All immigrant groups form strong associations and societies. They lobby and vote as a group, and they don’t mind stepping on your head to get what they want. Of course they’re going to vote for the party that gives them policies and programs to come out ahead of you.

    It’s as if they’re at war with the host country.

  30. @Priss Factor

    Given Trump’s yellow peril demagoguery about China, I can’t imagine many Asians supporting him.

    >Agree: Tor597

    And here he was claiming yesterday that he wasn’t Chinese! I guess this is what happens when you LARP with a high IQ combined with a low EQ…

    • Replies: @Tor597
  31. @ABCStar

    Bow to your Brown Masters.

    How endearing and diplomatic…

  32. I think the closest historical analogy to where we are right now is 1917 Russia. The Bolsheviks relied on Chinese and Latvian Jews to provide personal security to the top Bolsheviks, staff the mid to upper levels of the CheKa’s torture and execution chambers, conduct the mass executions, and administer intra-military punishments. Bands of Chinese militia roamed Russia looting and killing the terrorized Russians with impunity. Russian families starved to death in their basements rather than venture out and risk falling into the hands of Chinese torturers.

    A white army propaganda poster during the civil war. Look closely:

    The neo-Bolsheviks have been carefully nurturing Asian-Americans for years. Asians will ally themselves with Jews, to their enormous later regret, but for whites it will be too late.

  33. Chinaman says:

    I am a Trump supporter. All Chinese are Trump supporters.

    Trump have done more for the Chinese than any American President by uniting us. All Chinese have a common enemy now, America. Trump have awaken our racial identity and our patriotism. The utilisation of despicable and dirty tactics such as the kidnapping of the daughter of Huawei and the illegal expropriation and of TikTok ( no different than Hitler ‘s forced divestment of Jewish business in 1933), Trump have made this civilisational struggle between China and the West PERSONAL for all Chinaman. We will not sit there and let white people do to us what you did to the Native Indians or Australian Aboriginals. Bring it on.

    Trump and his crew have done more for the China and CCP than any other administration by destroying and tearing apart America. America’s economy is crippled and on the country is on the brink of civil war. CCP didn’t have to lift a finger and just watch as America implode. How many atom bombs and Pearl Harbours do you need to kill 200,000 people and cause the suffering of millions.

    Please vote for Trump!

    • Agree: Tor597
    • Replies: @Ugetit
    , @Thomasina
  34. @Tor597

    In other words, Asian Americans, just like all other non-Whites in America are traitors and should be sent back to where they came from. Because they cannot even handle a small jibe about the China Virus (objectively true) and because they want to be pandered to from the racial angle even though everything the Republicans do it in the interests of Asians in America.

    Of course the Asians don’t care that much about what happens to them in America, they want a good deal for their real homelands.

    Either way this is good, Whites need to understand that the “based Asian” meme is dumb and all of these interlopers will stab them in the back the first chance they get and will laugh about it afterwards.

    Republicans should in reality just declare themselves to be the White People’s Party and directly ask White people for their vote instead of pandering to ungrateful “minorities” (1.4bn Chinese, a similar amount of Indians, “minorities” my arse) who they have no chance in winning because the Democrats will always hate Whitey more and Asians, whether they be Chinese, Indians, or South-East Asians will always hate Whitey.

    Asians, Blacks and Latinos would quite honestly prefer to be poorer and less well off if combined with White genocide than they would if Whites were to remain a majority.

    How many tech jobs will White Americans have to lose before they realise these Asians are not your friends?

    Why the hell are Asians who have done almost nothing to build up America given the right to make demands based on their ethnic and racial interests and shove around the White people, the ones who really founded America?

    White Americans are really in for a tough ride. They will have a toxic mix of liberal Whites, Jews, Chinese and Indians ruling over them and mocking their culture and traditions, while from the other side they will have violent blacks physically terrorising them.

    All these Asians need to be sent back, they will be the cruelest of oppressors when the time comes.

    • Agree: AceDeuce, Pop Warner
  35. Dexter P says:
    @anon

    Low openness, high conscientiousness, high agreeableness – these are a recipe for conformity regardless of race, but they are found more in East Asians. East Asians evolved in Siberia, a harsh climate with exceptionally cold winters, which put eugenic pressure on cooperation and uniformity because any form of individuality is met with suspicion and you can’t survive by yourself in that environment. This is also why they have such stable marriages – a woman living in Siberia cannot be expected to raise a child by herself and so those that did died out. Again this is tied to high conscientiousness, agreeableness, and suchlike. This predisposes them to solve the social problem rather than the intellectual one. Solving the intellectual one would lead them to vote for GOP more because that is what is in their financial and cultural interests. However, what with the extreme leftwing bias in media, elites, and higher professions, solving the social problem leads them to conclude that they should vote Democrat.

    TL;DR – accepting everything one hears, is related to IQ, sure, but also, perhaps even more so, related to (low) openness, conscientiousness, agreeableness. These are all K-selected traits, Asians are K-selected, therefore they are more likely to accept everything they hear. If Asians were a biological sex, they’d be women.

  36. @anon

    It just goes to show that Asians are easily manipulated by the media.

    They are just voting for their racial interests, only Whites vote along the lines of principles by and large. The minorities are highly racialised (as one would expect, the White minority in the likes of South Africa and Rhodesia is also very racialised, although their racial consciousness stems more from violent attacks against their kind from the black majority)

    So in the end, Asians are actual smart and the Asian worshipping Republicans and even White Nationalists like some at American Renaissance are schmucks for thinking they can “ally” with Asians who are in my view even more dangerous to White group interests as they are fairly intelligent and many have historical grievances against us (Chinese want revenge for the Century of Humiliation, the Indians want revenge for the British Raj, the South-East Asians want revenge for the various American interventions in their nations etc)

  37. Locally, we have a Korean Democrat running for Satte Senate. I assume (and hope) this is an outlier, since Koreans in the US tend to be even more Evangelical Christian than White Southerners. Not to mention they have a good example of what unbridled socialism can do from their northern neighbor back in the old country.

  38. anonymous[795] • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Except that most non-Chinese Asians don’t view themselves as being part of the same ethnic group as Chinese and would resent being lumped together with Chinese. In America, there might be an umbrella racial category known as “Asian,” but this is only because the children of Asian immigrants are no longer connected to their ancestral home cultures and are divorced from the geopolitical realities of Asia itself, in which case it’s pointless to speak of them as being Asian in any meaningful sense except for checking a box for American job/university applications and maybe joining the hate-Whitey POC gravy train and getting in on the grift of grievance-mongering and benefit-seeking.

    In Asia itself, non-Chinese feel more enmity towards Chinese than they do towards other foreigners. And that’s because they know that the Chinese feel themselves to be superior to everyone else. Filipinos, for example, have borne the brunt of racial contempt from Chinese in HK, Taiwan, and mainland Chinese constantly and are much more friendly to America than to China, especially when you taken into account the Christian, Roman Catholic connection.

    Chinese are especially arrogant and conceited when interacting with their Asian neighbors, and the latter can feel it very palpably. While Chinese people’s pride and racial nationalism can be advantage, it can have many drawbacks as well. The disadvantage is that the Chinese always alienate potential allies. This has been the case over and over again throughout history. The Chinese behind closed doors don’t acknowledge the independent existence of ANY country in Asia.

    You have to understand that the Chinese feel that Koreans and Japanese don’t have the right to exist independently and are racially just Chinese, their cultures being Chinese-derivatives. This is the Chinese attitude toward Korea, Japan, and Mongolia, to say nothing of Taiwan.

    As far as Southeast Asians go, the Chinese view them as racially inferior whose fate is to pay tribute to China. In the minds of the Chinese, China practically INVENTED Asia.

    Chinese ambitions do not stop with reunificaiton of Taiwan and Hong Kong – they are far broader and nefarious than people think. Historically, this has always been the case. This is why all of China’s neighbors view China as an existential threat and view its increasing power with apprehension and dread.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  39. @Craig Nelsen

    The neo-Bolsheviks have been carefully nurturing Asian-Americans for years. Asians will ally themselves with Jews, to their enormous later regret, but for whites it will be too late.

    Why would they regret destroying the White Race?

  40. anonymous[795] • Disclaimer says:
    @Craig Nelsen

    The Bolsheviks relied on Chinese and Latvian Jews to provide personal security to the top Bolsheviks, staff the mid to upper levels of the CheKa’s torture and execution chambers, conduct the mass executions, and administer intra-military punishments. Bands of Chinese militia roamed Russia looting and killing the terrorized Russians with impunity. Russian families starved to death in their basements rather than venture out and risk falling into the hands of Chinese torturers.

    Your post is the biggest bullshit I’ve ever read on this site. To blame Chinese for doing mass executions and terrorizing Russians has to be the biggest deflection from Jewish Bolshevik terror I’ve ever read. Your post is a new low in hasbara and Jewish propaganda. No one is convinced by it and, quite honestly, it’s disgusting.

    • Replies: @Ugetit
  41. Goddard says:
    @Tor597

    Quit being so outwardly hostile towards us.

    You’re either a pussy or a traitor, or possibly both. When Trump calls the virus the China virus, why would you, supposedly a conservative Asian American, feel offended? Trump is not going after Americans, which is what you claim to be, but the government of a foreign nation, the People’s Republic of China.

    Determine honestly and as soon as possible where your true loyalties lie, and act accordingly. Your ancestral homeland awaits you; go back, the government will issue you your new shengfenzheng within weeks. Or stop your whining about white people not loving you enough, step up, do your duty as a American, and vote Trump.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  42. Ugetit says:
    @Blackjack8793

    I’m not from NY but the diaper wearing here seems to be 100%. I’m still shocked as well as depressed at the overwhelming submissiveness on display by everyone, and I mean everyone. I don’t remember when I’ve seen a person without one. They even wear ’em while jogging, biking, and driving alone.

    I almost never wear one and the verbal attacks I get are on the increase while it’s very rare for a person to agree with me when I comment on the silliness of wearing the things. What really amazes me is how the medical community complies although I had a doc admit that he thought the COVID scam was “about 75%” farce. If they really cared about our health, one would think they’d call out the scare mongers and rebel.

    Pathetic.

  43. Why do we need more Asians in America?

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  44. theMann says:

    Gibberish, bordering on bullshit. In the end non- Whites go to the polls with one overarching aim:

    Stick it to Whitey.

    It is about time every White American acknowledged that fact.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
  45. Jake says:
    @Tulip

    True.

    Back when almost all Middle Eastern immigrants were Christian, they also tended to be conservative in basic values and voting. Moslem Middle Easterners in America act political to get freebies and to gain power at the expense of whites.

    The Left knows all that, so the Left will keep granting goodies to non-whites, and they less Christian they are, the quicker the bait is swallowed.

    Evangelicalism always comes off to most ‘other’ people as a religion about race/ethnicity/national origin. That is because all Protestant groups were founded that way for that purpose.

    That is the same reason that everybody sees the Serbian Orthodox Church as about Serbs and Serbian identity and culture, and nothing more.

  46. Jake says:
    @Craig Nelsen

    True. And history shows that Asians make very good and very willing Marxist monsters, both as leaders and as grunts.

  47. Letting Africans, Asians and Jews into the USA has been the biggest of mistakes.

    The Caucasian Race was doomed by these decisions.

    Satan laughs.

  48. Jake says:
    @Bucky

    The GOP is the ‘white racialist party’ the same way that the Communist Party of the Soviet Union was the party of workers and the downtrodden.

  49. Ugetit says:
    @Craig Nelsen

    I think the closest historical analogy to where we are right now is 1917 Russia.

    I agree. The parallels are amazing although we ain’t seen nothing yet. I suspect that’s largely due to the fact that we still have some firepower and they haven’t really tried to starve or terrorize us yet.

    Here’s an example of the attitude of the enemy.

    [The non-goy]… Anatoly Vasilyevich Lunacharsky, Lenin’s Soviet People’s Commissar of
    Enlightenment, wrote: “We hate Christianity and Christians. Even the best of them must be
    regarded as our worst enemies. They preach love of one’s neighbor and mercy which is contrary
    to our principles. Christian love is an obstacle to the development of the revolution. Down with
    love of one’s neighbor. What we need is hatred; only thus shall we conquer the universe.”

    -As quoted in, The Myth of German Villainy, by Benton L. Bradberry

    file:///C:/Users/jeff/Downloads/The%20Myth%20of%20German%20Villainy.pdf

  50. @Alvin

    Alas, that describes the upper-middle-class Whites as well.

  51. MLK says:
    @Tor597

    Opposition to abortion is “anti-science?” Whether you think it a necessary evil or the fundament of women’s equality, you’re either ignorant or a sick person if you think abortion is commanded by Science.

    As a conservative Asian American . . .

    Yeah, keep telling yourself that you’re a conservative in any meaningful sense of the term. True to form, you’re engaged in post-hoc reasoning. Republicans are losing Asian voters so you blame Evangelicals and Hillary’s deplorables.

    Evangelicals saved candidate Trump. The Access Hollywood set-piece was arranged by “conservatives” like you to cause Evangelicals and other social conservatives to abandon him. They did no such thing and the rest is history. Like so many other Americans they finally had enough of being snookered by Bush Republicans like yourself.

    • Replies: @MLK
    , @Tor597
  52. bjondo says:

    Asians have seen their hard work go down in
    the Democrat’s ISIS flames and Antifa bricks.

    They help make sure Trump re elected – HUGE.

    • Replies: @GoodTwin
    , @Bucky
  53. Ugetit says:
    @Chinaman

    Your post tells it like it undoubtedly is, except for this load of b.s,

    ( no different than Hitler ‘s forced divestment of Jewish business in 1933)

    In fact, the Germans became united in the face of threats very similar to what you’re describing except that the threats were much more violent and real. Trump is a nutless, mouthy, paper tiger compared with the unbelievably hideous and pervasive terror actively spread in Russia and Europe prior to Hitler’s rise and which continues, though much attenuated in outward violence, yet as pervasive and every bit as dangerous, to this day.

    It’s long past due to drop the “Hitler bad” baloney. I cannot believe that century old, outrageously hysterical war propaganda is believed and continues to be spouted to this day.

  54. @Arcadian

    One of the reasons the US is doomed as a hegemon is because it needs to be hostile to two of its most intellectual groups of people – whites and the Chinese. Whites because the US needs a white minority to have a population which can reasonably hope to counter China, and the Chinese Americans for obvious reasons. If Biden wins it remains to be seen if the US. will remain anti-China. Probably.

    It won’t work, of course. China is homogenous. The US isn’t.

  55. GoodTwin says:
    @Priss Factor

    Chinese know best tge reality of the “Yellow Peril.” While they have mostly been on-board with China’s long term plans in the past, I expect their thinking will shift as China changes in character. With Xi in power we have one of the great world-historic moments signaling a more aggressive China that is now throwing it’s weight around. Many Chinese will see the US as a necessary check to Xi and don’t want the heavily compromised Dems in power. Even if they support Chinese policies in China, they want America to remain American so they can have a nice playground and back-up plan.
    The other major factor that I think is swinging Asians Right is tge disgusting BLM psychophantry. Asians are just as ethnocentric as any normal group, but they prefer Whites to Blacks. They are milking tge American cash cow, why slaughter it for some quick beef?

  56. GoodTwin says:
    @bjondo

    I agree, just based on the percentage of Asians I saw at a PA Trump rally last week. They like America as it is and don’t want to lose it even if China benefits (though I am just guessing that they were Chinese). There were a ton of Orthodox Jews there as well. These people may not be traditional Republicans, but neither is Trump. If he wins tomorrow tge GOP has a chance to expand its base in all kinds of directions, in spite of itself.

  57. MLK says:
    @MLK

    Some Asians we’re all proud of:

  58. Ugetit says:
    @anonymous

    Your post is the biggest bullshit I’ve ever read on this site. To blame Chinese for doing mass executions and terrorizing Russians has to be the biggest deflection from Jewish Bolshevik terror I’ve ever read.

    I doubt anyone is blaming “the Chinese,” but how can there be little doubt that the Reds used anyone they could get their hands on to do their dirty work? There is evidence that the post you’re criticizing describes part of the hoary truth. Even Wiki (notably unreliable in these matters) admits to it. If you don’t believe it, at least consider the references provided there.

    Check this out,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_in_the_Russian_Revolution_and_in_the_Russian_Civil_War

    Note: I apologize for using Wiki as a source, but it’s the most succinct one I could find on the subject at hand, and it only takes a few seconds to read its summary which seems quite informative.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  59. Bucky says:
    @bjondo

    How many Asians are speakers at the GOP convention? How many regularly talk on Fox News?

    The GOP does not even bother. They will work very hard to give the spotlight to blacks, but don’t give any time of day to other ethnic groups.

    • Replies: @bjondo
  60. anonymous[795] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ugetit

    I’ll consider the possibility, but you’ve got to give better evidence than Wikipedia (and no, I’m not going to bother going down this rabbit-hole and follow the chain of references myself). You are the one who is defending the post, so give me some better evidence. Point me to a book at least. One good book will do. The burden is on you to come up with the sources. I will read it, as I am genuinely curious about this and this is the first time I’ve read of Chinese being used by the Reds as middle-men and intermediaries in persecuting Russians. So don’t be lazy – show me the proof.

  61. Tor597 says:
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Hey dumb dumb. Again, I’m not Chinese.

    Here is a link to the Republican playbook on how to handle the China Virus.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/24/gop-memo-anti-china-coronavirus-207244

    The strategy is to attack China and if you get accused of racism to point out that it is only the Chinese communists who they hate. Yeah right lol.

    Like you, the Republican rank and file doesn’t distinguish between Chinese and Chinese American. They are both dangerous foreigners as far as they are concerned.

    And like you, Republicans don’t bother to distinguish Chinese Americans from other Asian Americans. So all Asian Americans even dark skinned ones like Filipinos get harassed.

    You don’t think there will be any blowback from this?

    This isn’t just America by the way. Japanese tourists who go to France get harassed and called racist things because white people see everything as race.

  62. Like you, the Republican rank and file doesn’t distinguish between Chinese and Chinese American. They are both dangerous foreigners as far as they are concerned.

    That is because there is no real difference, the only thing that separates the two is a flimsy bit of paper and as you surely know, blood is more sacred than paper. It is a great source of amusement to me to see our media getting all apoplectic about Russian interference all while promoting the wonders of racial diversity and allowing racial aliens like yourself and millions of others to influence the national politics of White nations.

    The Rejuvenation of the Chinese Nation
    Is a Dream Shared by All Chinese: Speech to representatives attending the Seventh Conference of Friendship of Overseas Chinese Associations

    For Chinese people both at home and abroad, a united Chinese nation is our shared root, the profound Chinese culture is our shared soul, and the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation is our shared dream. The shared root fosters eternal brotherhood, the shared soul links our hearts, and the shared dream holds us all together – we will go on to write a new chapter in the history of the Chinese nation.

    We Chinese often say, “Your eyes brim with tears when you encounter a fellow townsman in a distant land.” It makes me feel at home to meet you today. On behalf of the CPC and the State Council, I would like to extend my congratulations to the convening of the Seventh Conference of Friendship of Overseas Chinese Associations, my warm welcome to overseas Chinese attending the conference, and my sincere greetings to overseas Chinese all over the world.

    The tens of millions of overseas Chinese across the world are all members of the Chinese family. In the best of Chinese traditions, generations of overseas Chinese never forget their home country, their origins, or the blood of the Chinese nation flowing in their veins. They have given their enthusiastic support to China’s revolution, construction and reform. They have made a major contribution to the growth of the Chinese nation, to the peaceful reunification of the motherland, and to the friendly people-to-people cooperation between China and other countries. Their contribution will always be remembered.

    Interesting, almost as if they are foreign agents, they are playing the assimilated American for now but who knows what it will take for them to awaken from their slumber, perhaps it will be something as innocuous as calling a virus that originated in China the China Virus?

    And like you, Republicans don’t bother to distinguish Chinese Americans from other Asian Americans. So all Asian Americans even dark skinned ones like Filipinos get harassed.

    Harassed by whom? Were they harassed by Aryan racists or by our more melanin-enriched friends? Of course these Asians are demanding the GOP pander to them a bit more and don’t hurt their feelings, hence the will side with a party that does not think very much of them and will stab all those “muh based Asian” GOP cucks in the back as they should.

    In the end, these racial interlopers have a homeland to go back to, they are sucking America dry and will jump ship when the time comes. GOP is making a big mistake by not targeting White folk and White folk only, all it would take is for the GOP to get someone like Jared Taylor on board and most Whites would see the light.

    Chinese Exclusion Act was not evil and racist as some say, it was plain common sense, as was the 1924 Johnson-Reed Act. White America is now paying for this grave judgement, perhaps they deserve it for being complacent.

    This isn’t just America by the way. Japanese tourists who go to France get harassed and called racist things because white people see everything as race.

    Again, I wonder who is really doing the harassing, I doubt it is the native French, but I wish White people saw everything as race as you claim, then we wouldn’t be in this predicament.

  63. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:

    Asian dude here with obvious heterodox views given that I’m on this site. My family has been here for a while (125+ years); I’m very well-acquainted with every type of “Asian” in this country.

    Asians don’t have influence in America. But to the extent that anyone here cares about whether they’ll be loyal to the American nation, that ship sailed long ago. The ship took off when the term “Asian” started being used.

    As others pointed out, “Asian” is not monolithic and includes everyone from Koreans, to Indians, to Samoans like The Rock. It is also recent: my grandparents and even my parents did not view themselves as “Asian-American”, but instead defined themselves as a function of their ethnic heritage (Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc.). This was ok, because so did the Italians, Jews, and the Irish (most of whom arrived around the same time).

    Unfortunately, since then, the Italians, Jews, and Irish became “White”, while we became “Asian”.

    So the main question is: “if we aren’t considered American after 125 years, when’s it happening?” “And, until then, why should we care about America?’

  64. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ll put my restate comment a little more concisely:

    People notice what you call them. If you call them “Asian”, they’ll behave that way. If you call them “American”, they’ll behave that way.

  65. d dan says:
    @Tor597

    Tor597 says: “…”

    Thanks for the courage to stand up against those dumb & dumber racists. So many clowns still believe that GOP supports equality in education and is a party of low taxes – two pivotal issues for Asian Americans. And they believe Asian Americans believe what they believe. Hence it is unbelievable that Asian Americans should not support GOP. And therefore they believe, Asian Americans should just take those virulent attacks on them with a nonchalant shrug.

    Real bunch of idiots – no wonder they still support Trump.

    • Agree: Tor597, HeebHunter
    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  66. @Anon

    America will always be seen as a White nation, go around the world, especially the Third World and ask them to imagine an “American” and they will give the image of a European phenotype, or sometime a black person as blacks are also an integral part of America in the psyche of most people.

    Post-1965 immigrants are just members of whatever nation they came from, most of them feel little loyalty to America anyway.

  67. Chinaman says:
    @God's Fool

    To increase the average IQ of America but also China. It is a good deal for both countries.

  68. Tor597 says:
    @Goddard

    Lol.

    So I guess all the white nationals here who are always whining about how the media or government is anti-white are also pussies and traitors?

    Its not about being offended by his words. Its about how Americans are angry that they botched the Corona Virus response and they want a scape goat to take it out on.

    Why would an Asian American care if Trump attacked a foreign country? Its because Asian Americans as a whole are being attacked.

    An Asian woman got acid thrown on her head and an Asian kid got his face slashed open.

    https://twitter.com/JayPotato1/status/1239742327893020673?s=20

    No thanks on voting for Trump and supporting Republicans when they only care about white interests.

    • Agree: HeebHunter
    • Replies: @Goddard
  69. Tor597 says:
    @MLK

    You need to learn to read.

    Abortion and being anti science are two different topics not one in the same.

    I do think abortion is horrible, but that doesn’t mean I want a platform based around that.

    I am more of a conservative than you are, I just don’t like the white social justice warrior parts of the Republican party.

    Nope, Republicans started to lose the Asian vote before Trump was a thing.

    • Replies: @MLK
  70. bjondo says:
    @Bucky

    This is true.
    But
    Asians don’t need to be on FOX. Destroyed businesses sufficient.
    Trump is Trump.
    GOP part of the swamp.

    #62 comment here. My comment limit (2) reached

    The cartoon character kicked by Uncle Sam/Trump
    looks like James Carville.

  71. Chinaman says:
    @anonymous

    In Asia itself, non-Chinese feel more enmity towards Chinese than they do towards other foreigners. And that’s because they know that the Chinese feel themselves to be superior to everyone else. Filipinos, for example, have borne the brunt of racial contempt from Chinese

    I have to agree with your analysis and it is unfortunate that Chinese do view themselves as superior than other Asians because we were way ahead of everyone else until the last 400 years. Some Chinese feel it is time to get back to our “rightful” place in the racial hierarchy and to wash away our past humiliation with the blood of those who have wrong us.

    This mentality is self-defeating of course.

    China need everyone of our Asian brothers and sisters in the civilisational struggle against US hegemony and Western civilisation. This include Japanese and Filipinos. Even though we are separated by 10,000 years of evolution, we all came from mainland China\Asia of course…As a Chinaman, I don’t mind if the new capital of the pan- Asia Union is in Tokyo or Manila as long as we point our gun barrels in the same direction. Chinese chauvinism needs to be tamed.

    There are Asians, Whites and Blacks but in all likelihood, only ONE of these races will survive in the next 1000 years. This final showdown have just begun and Whitie have fired their first shot. You already picked sides whether you like it or not.

    • Agree: HeebHunter
    • Replies: @Tor597
  72. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:

    America will always be seen as a White nation,

    You’re making it sound as if America wasn’t seen as a Protestant, Anglo culture prior to the 60’s. A lot of the people that fit within the ‘White” category were not viewed as such (and did not view themselves as such). To repeat: America was NOT viewed as a nation of Jews (who fall within the white category) historically.

    It is true that America NOW is viewed as a “White” nation. But not always. WNs are just angry that the racial categories– completely artificial ones, by the way, WASPS did not view themselves as Irish or Jewish– are backfiring on them.

    View all Americans as Americans and the problem is solved.

  73. @Anon

    View all Americans as Americans and the problem is solved.

    This is nice thinking, but when you have visible minorities this becomes difficult, especially when these visible minorities as a group have difference behaviour traits that can be noticed by the average person, thus creating this Other.

    In the utopian world, everyone would see themselves as part of one human race and there would be a meritocracy which would ensure the optimum functioning of society, a society that works for all its members.

    But we don’t live in a utopia and a lot of the times a hierarchy is formed and the groups at the bottom do not like it one bit, hence there is massive tensions.

  74. MLK says:
    @Tor597

    I do think abortion is horrible, but that doesn’t mean I want a platform based around that.

    Good for you!

    Look, Evangelicals were Quietist until Roe. In my view, more because of its reasoning than legalization per se. In short, Roe deployed faux science (e.g. 3 trimesters) on behalf of the proposition that abortion was a condition precedent of women’s equality..

    . . . but that doesn’t mean I want a platform based around that.

    It’s a childish straw man to argue this. It’s not true. Indeed, their steadfast support for Trump shows they’ve matured out of being cheap dates for establishment Republicans like yourself telling them what they want to hear on abortion and then otherwise selling them out on everything else important to them.

    Nope, Republicans started to lose the Asian vote before Trump was a thing.

    Quite right. Trump will either reverse the trend or merely be the pause that refreshes depending on what Republicans do after he leaves office in four, eight, or fourteen years.

    In any event, you have plenty of time to get it together. Drop “cringy” and get a backbone!

    • Replies: @Tor597
  75. Thomasina says:
    @Chinaman

    Trump is holding up a mirror. In the mirror we see how the CPP has been actively colluding with the U.S. central bank, Wall Street, the media, and the U.S. multinationals to destroy the U.S.

    Rock on, Chinaman! Your turn will come.

  76. A couple of things:

    This is nice thinking, but when you have visible minorities this becomes difficult, especially when these visible minorities as a group have difference behaviour traits that can be noticed by the average person, thus creating this Other.

    This applies to black-white performance inequalities. I don’t see how this would apply to Asian-white discrepancies.

    In the utopian world, everyone would see themselves as part of one human race and there would be a meritocracy which would ensure the optimum functioning of society, a society that works for all its members.

    This is overly hyperbolic. The Asian-White distinction remains unnecessary. For example, I’ve seen Chinese get along better with Russians, than Japanese; that same Russian would be less welcome at a dinner of Frenchmen, than a Japanese. Would you disagree?

  77. @Chinaman

    Our IQ is just fine (remember Nanking? We defeated the Japs) notwithstanding blacks and hispanics… you just worry about your own and try not to beg, borrow or steal any more of our technologies and we’ll be ok… thank you very much!

  78. Something has happened to define conservatism in the minds of Asians as deeply unattractive, despite all the reasons that should naturally lead them to vote for a party that is identified with liberty, opportunity to get ahead, and economic growth.

    Lol. Yes, Charles, because nothing screams “Liberty!” like being the party that instituted the Patriot Act while suspending the writ of Habeas corpus.

    And there is no greater indicator of how much the GOPieces of shit want to help everyone “get ahead” than the fact that their party of scumbag traitors have voted like a jillion times against raising minimum wage for the front line of the American workforce. To the point that it hasn’t even KEPT. UP. WITH INFLATION.

    And if by “economic growth” you mean for the richest .001%, then yes. Meanwhile, everyone else in the country is making less than their grandfathers did in 1980. Thanks, in large part, to the Republican/Kike policy of “Trickle-down economics”. THANKS, Ronnie and Milton!

    • Agree: HeebHunter
    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  79. Tor597 says:
    @MLK

    I am not a mainstream Republican at all.

    I am a libertarian and I consider myself a true conservative as opposed to someone like Trump who is a liberal who uses wedge issues like race and abortion to trick people into voting for him.

    • Replies: @MLK
  80. @Cho Seung-Hui

    This applies to black-white performance inequalities. I don’t see how this would apply to Asian-white discrepancies.

    Fair enough, Asians do tend to cause less problems in terms of integration, but I would argue that as the Asian population grows the fault lines will become more obvious, I still see no benefit of doing this though, what is the end goal? To have more people in the country?

    This is overly hyperbolic. The Asian-White distinction remains unnecessary. For example, I’ve seen Chinese get along better with Russians, than Japanese; that same Russian would be less welcome at a dinner of Frenchmen, than a Japanese. Would you disagree?

    For sure, those rivalries you mention were nurtured by centuries of shared history and events, but I assume by “getting along better” you mean fairly short term engagements? If you can show me a place where millions of Chinese live alongside millions of Russians under the same political system in harmony then I will take back my earlier assertions and accept that maybe this aversion to multi-racialism is just an Anglo thing.

    • Replies: @Cho Seung-Hui
  81. Tor597 says:
    @Chinaman

    I agree with your sentiment 100%.

    China should focus on building up Asia as a whole so the whole region can defend itself against western neoliberalism. It will pay off tremendously.

    If China tries to go it alone, it will find itself hated in the region and will be vulnerable to Anglo divide and conquer tactics.

    I think the Chinese are smart enough to figure this out.

    I don’t see the ending as a final battle to see which race survives till the end. That is how Anglos and Jews think. Not Asians.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
    , @Chinaman
  82. @d dan

    These absolute retards, the “huwhite” ( Arab and North African lineage is also huwhite, of course) Amerimutts still sing songs about how they beat da natzees and expect intelligent non Euros to be their slaves. It is absolutely hilarious.
    I do hope the orange clown does wins though. It will be the last white mutt president and then the leftist can finally pull the curtain down. The anxiety is unbearable.

  83. Tor597 says:
    @Cho Seung-Hui

    Do you live in America?

    I can see how East Asians and Whites can get along in many different venues. But this view is not congruent with the way white people in America are trending.

    America is a country that is falling apart and the white people at the top are scared to death of other races passing them by. The last thing they want is to see a yellow face as their equal.

    Not all white people are like this. Russia is much more likely to accept a rising Asia because their own country is not falling apart.

  84. @Ann T. Zemitik

    Funny how these “huwhite” “nationalists” ignore you.
    When both choices in muttmerica are kosher, and one is openly hostile toward you, you tend to pick the other. Why not make some money before it all crashes?

  85. @Tor597

    If one belligerent has decided that it will be a zero sum game, it will be a zero sum game. The latest people to pay for this were the Germans.
    I think the Chinese understand it too.
    The world will be a happy place with the KIKES and the negro-sickxon kike slaves are completely exterminated. And it is already decided.
    Asia and Europe only need to survive. The negro-sickxon nations are already mutted beyond regconition. The kike scheme is an unsustainable one that requires the stupidest of all goyim, the island monkeys with their non existence morality, to exist.

    It will end badly for them, with their souls and prosterity already committed to eternal damnation.

  86. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    but I would argue that as the Asian population grows the fault lines will become more obvious,

    The fault lines are growing, but not because there’s more Asians. It’s because the Asians that are coming are actively discouraged from assimilating to American society. As a 4th generation Asian-American, I’ve noticed this. I don’t disagree that America has a predominantly European and specifically English heritage. But if you acknowledge this, you must also acknowledge that the decision to allow Asians in the first place and the terms upon which they would enter society were decided by those who were already here… whites (although, again, they didn’t identify as “White” at that time the same way whites do now). Asians cannot be blamed.

    The exact same thing happened to Cuban-Americans, many of whom formerly identified as whites because they were basically Spanish people living in Cuba, but who now identify as Hispanic due to identity politics.

    I am not sure if you’re a white nationalist, or if you’ve read anything by Jared Taylor. But he notes in one of his books this trend of “reverse-assimilation” among Asians. So, he acknowledges that Asians at one time DID assimilate, but were later punished for doing so.

  87. @Tor597

    I live in the United States, although I’ve also lived throughout East Asia. I agree that things aren’t looking good for race relations.

    That said, my ancestors came here during a time in which the ancestors of people that currently fall within the white category actually lived in ethnic enclaves. Just watch the Godfather, or Road to Perdition. Hell, the reason why Billy the Kid got killed was because there were tensions between English and Irish cowboys. People don’t realize this because Hollywood has retconned American history. The actors, usually Jewish, that play historical American figures would not have been considered American by the people they are actually playing.

    Although they previously lived in ethnic enclaves, the Irish, Jews, and Italians became “White” and the Japanese or Chinese became “Asian”. Unfortunately, the Pre-1965 Japanese/Chinese, of which I am a part, failed to firmly assert themselves as part of the White category. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t hypothetically possible, given what the Jews, Irish, and Italians did. It just depends on whether the existing set of people that fall within the white category let them. Short-term, it may not seem within their interest; long-term it is.

  88. MLK says:
    @Tor597

    Trump who is a liberal who uses wedge issues like race and abortion to trick people into voting for him.

    Nonsense. Watch and learn. Trump will win the largest percentage of the black and Hispanic vote of any Republican in the modern era.

    Yeah, Trump is so liberal the liberals went to any means necessary to remove him from the Oval Office.

    Most libertarians are just gays that don’t like paying taxes.

    In any event, you should follow the lead of Rand Paul, a courageous supporter of the POTUS.

    • Replies: @MLK
  89. @Tor597

    America is a country that is falling apart and the white people at the top are scared to death of other races passing them by. The last thing they want is to see a yellow face as their equal.

    Must be why these Whites generously sent all their manufacturing and later even IT services to Asia, they totally wanted to keep the Asians down by…handing them over the industries they worked very hard to build up from nothing, with most of the cost being due to R&D. Yes those evil Whites are at it again…

    Not all white people are like this. Russia is much more likely to accept a rising Asia because their own country is not falling apart.

    Or more likely because Asia does not really threaten their country, a country whose main adversary is the West? Of course Russia did not “accept a rising Asia” back when Russia actually had something to lose.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict

  90. I’d wager most of these “Asians” commenting are in fact, Jews…lol

    If I’m not mistaken, Ron Unz already placed his bet on “Chinaman”.

    Tor597 sounds like some pissed off Flip gangsta.

    And then there’s “HeebHunter”.

    Can we get wagers on this creature?

    Israeli is a good guess.

  91. @Cho Seung-Hui

    You post #86 is very interesting and good food for thought, it has certainly made me reconsider some things.

    In relation to this post

    Unfortunately, the Pre-1965 Japanese/Chinese, of which I am a part, failed to firmly assert themselves as part of the White category. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t hypothetically possible, given what the Jews, Irish, and Italians did. It just depends on whether the existing set of people that fall within the white category let them. Short-term, it may not seem within their interest; long-term it is.

    I don’t think this is possible simply due to physical differences, physical differences which cause a lot of interesting dynamics to arise during inter-group interactions. With the Irish and Jews you had racial Europeans, there is no way to really tell an Irishman or a Jew apart from an Anglo in most cases, if all other things are the same (accent and demeanour) but the same is not true for East Asians.

    I’ve always felt that East Asians in America were never treated as an in-group (like the Irish bacame) nor as an outgroup (like blacks) but somewhere in between. East Asians are acknowledged to be obviously different to Whites but they are no considered a bad minority unlike say the Hispanics or blacks, the former of which are probably more racially similar to Whites

    Here is an interesting article: The Chinese were white – until white men called them yellow

    • Replies: @Cho Seung-hui
  92. Pruckus says:
    @Steven80

    What Steven80 said, along with the shift leftward of the education system. Having lived in Socal, there are a lot of “jungle” Asian (Vietnamese, Filipino, Cambodian, Thai) etc, tend to harbor animosity towards whites.

  93. @GeneralRipper

    Anyone who talks of exterminating or killing off entire races is likely a Jew, we also have Adunai (Hebrew for “Lord”) who claims to be Russian but is a most definitely Jewish. Tor597 is likely some disgruntled jungle Asian.

    • Agree: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  94. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Thanks.

    I’ve always felt that East Asians in America were never treated as an in-group (like the Irish bacame) nor as an outgroup (like blacks) but somewhere in between. East Asians are acknowledged to be obviously different to Whites but they are no considered a bad minority unlike say the Hispanics or blacks, the former of which are probably more racially similar to Whites

    My guess is that you’re imagining first or second-generation Asians? If you’ve met third, fourth, or fifth (rare, but in existence on the West Coast; you’re interlocutor is one of them), you’re speaking to people whose ancestors came pre-1965. Your views on Asians might change.

    I’m not denying that there’s a greater discrepancy in appearance between East Asians and Anglos than Jews and Anglos; I just don’t think people care that much at the end of the day outside of dating. And there wasn’t that much of a split on dating prior to the emergence of Asian identity politics. Blacks are probably unassimilable, but that isn’t because of how they look, but how they act. Do you think otherwise?

    There is, after all, a different world abroad against whom the constituent races of American can unite. This is why I’m in favor of a draft, a hold on immigration, and an end to multiculturalism.

  95. @GeneralRipper

    t.subhuman mulatto amerimutt whose entire bloodline has served the kikes for not even scrap.

    Try to type Kikes, Heebs, and Yids without begging for permission first.

    Maybe then they will throw you a bone before kicking you in the face again, stupid mutt.

    • Troll: GeneralRipper
  96. @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    Lol, this is the kind of mentality the brave “huwhite” warriors (proud North African and Arab compositions included) of muttmerica have when faced with the truth regarding the race that has controlled them for centuries and is now chambering that last round so they deal the final blow.

    Ok, you know what, I really do hope you don’t talk about “exterminating” the kikes. So they can in turn do it to you and the rest of the world to them.
    And we will be rid of you for good. Like those pesky unnatural insects that keep bothering an otherwise normal world.

    But you know what, you can still chant world war champ back to back and afterward talk about how good it is to blast those gooks and sandniggers, especially right after killing the last uncooperative Krauts who were killing those damn commies we also hated.

    You lots are really subhumans. No wonder why your elites have such insane contempt for you. Nowhere else in the non-anglo monkey world do we observe this.

  97. @Cho Seung-hui

    Interesting perspective, and an even more interesting choice of pseudonym

  98. @Chinaman

    Here’s an idea – instead of sending the Chinese to the US, send them to Africa. Lord knows they could use the IQ boost more than anybody.

    • LOL: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @Rdm
  99. Chinaman says:
    @Tor597

    I don’t see the ending as a final battle to see which race survives till the end. That is how Anglos and Jews think. Not Asians.

    We both know at least 50% of the “ White nationalists” here will not bat an eye to do to Asians what they did to the Native Indians. Genocide is in their DNA. The rest of them who professes to have a conscience just want to fuck our women and assimilate us.

    This is how they think.

    It doesn’t matter what I think or whether I want it or not. I can fantasize about finding common ground or living in harmony with them but inevitably, there will be conflicts and wars as have been the norm in human history. The “final battle” is one scenario in which natural resources on earth dwindles and nuclear war ensues. The world seems to be heading in this direction. Another scenario is that the world becomes Brazilian and our descendants becomes a brown “blob”. The most likely outcome is between these 2 extremes.

    • Agree: HeebHunter
    • Replies: @Black Picard
    , @Ron Unz
  100. Ron Unz says:

    Glancing over this comment-thread, I think some of the Asians (or Asian-Ams) writing here seem to have gotten overly agitated about certain things.

    One problem with having a webzine open to WNs is that some of their zealous ethnic-nationalist sentiments naturally tend to produce an equal and opposite reaction in various other groups. However, such attitudes seem quite divorced from the actual real-life evidence I actually see in our society.

    Take the Asian issue under discussion. Except for tiny Hawaii, California is by far America’s most heavily Asian state, with 16% of the population being Asian compared with 30-35% being white European. Over one-third of America’s entire Asian population lives in CA.

    As far as I can tell, CA Asians get along perfectly well with CA whites, and probably don’t differ all that much politically. My strong suspicion is that college-educated CA Asians vote pretty much like their white counter-parts when adjusted for age. So in CA, I think all this talk of a brewing Asian/white racial conflict seems extremely implausible to me.

    I think the next most heavily Asian state is probably NY, which contains almost 10% of our national Asian population. Once again, I’m not aware of any signs of white/Asian conflict in that state either, and I suspect that the voting patterns also track pretty well.

    There are 21M Asians among America’s total 330M population, and I’m sure it’s possible to find a few cases here and there in which Asians have been racially attacked by whites, but I suspect that the numbers are extremely small, even in the wake of all of Trump’s crude and ignorant “China Virus” propaganda.

    Whites make up over 60% of the American population, and if I had to guess, I’d say they probably account for less than 10% of the violent attacks on Asians, the overwhelming majority of which are due to simple criminality. If any of the individuals on this thread have better information, I would be glad to stand corrected.

    The main problem for Asians, whether American or otherwise, is that America currently has a crazy government. But that’s also a problem for everyone else in this country, whether white, Hispanic, or black, not to mention the rest of the world.

    During some periods of the twentieth century, Russia had a crazy government and during other periods, China had a crazy government. Unfortunately, it’s now America’s turn to have a crazy government, but I’m not sure what that really has to do with Asians…

  101. Goddard says:
    @Tor597

    Go home. Go live in a country where more people look like you.

    As for America, it’s a white country. Whites conceived it; whites built it. Take away any other group besides whites, and one still recognizes America. Take away my people, and America is unrecognizable.

    When Trump says “China virus,” the burden is on you to understand that he means a foreign nation and more specifically a foreign government. The burden is not on Trump to avoid using a powerful descriptor so as not to offend your sensibilities, informed by your divided loyalties.

    Go home, I say.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  102. Rdm says:
    @Anon

    If you’d see Jews as White, we should be seeing Bin Laden as a White guy with beard. Jews are Middle Eastern at best. If your grandparents and you’re here in the States for 125 years, you should be able to easily identify if a person is European White or Jews. The same goes for Italian. Most Italians are 5’6” at best, mixed with Africans over time, Black hair, beard.

    See if Italians stick with Irish in a group. See if Jews stick with Italian in a group. They’d only stick together when they are mixed with other distinct group.

    There are intra-White infighting going. I’ll give you an example.

    If you’d come across a British white guy and a blonde girl with an accent on the street, there’s a possibility that a blonde girl is overselling her mixed heritage, i.e., even if she’s mixed with Romanian, Ukranian, British guy will rarely go for Eastern European girl. For Asian eyes, they’re all white. For White people, Eastern Europeans are as good as cheap prostitutes.

    That’s why you’d see more White guys and Asian women pairing lately because White guys are going for more educated women. If White people are more obsessed with maintaining their racial purity, white features, Caucasoid features, they should be relentlessly courting for White women. If British women are difficult, they could still go for Eastern European women. They don’t and they won’t.

    That’s why you’d see Derbyshire married a HK woman. If he’s so worried about immigration and purity of White race, why didn’t he marry a European woman? That’s the guy many White guys here intently listened to whatever shit he pulled out of his ass.

    All Whites here whining and saying Asians are invading their country, have Asian wife. That’d make you scratch your head and ask “Are those redneck as retarded as they can get?”

    You bet they are. Marry Asian women, complain about Asian invasion. That’s how they’re pulling out their high IQs out of their ass.

    • Agree: HeebHunter
  103. Rdm says:
    @Ron Unz

    The other part of the equation in this discussion is anyone can come here and express their opinion freely. The anonymity gives the freedom that I could not express well in public.

    I’d also say that most of the authors with balanced view on Asians are usually the ones who have been to Asia or spent their time on Asia or interacted with Asians significantly.

    But most of the commenters here with strong anti-Asians could be some blokes from fly-over zone with no exposure outside of America.

    Take Jared Taylor, significant time on Japan and appreciate the culture, but also maintain the White purity agenda.
    Also Derbyshire, married a HK woman, regaled his anti-black mantra every now and then.

    Look at our godfather anti-immigration EA Ross who also said Chinese are a strong formidable force to be reckoned with. He predicted that once China becomes an industrialized nation, that’s when we should be heedful of such civilization. That was back in 1915. 100 years ago he went to China.

    But here, all those armchair experts wearing Made In China red cap and typing “White built this. White made this” ad infinitum after finished the dinner prepared by their Asian wives.

    You wonder if White race becoming the butt of the joke.

  104. Rdm says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Only a Chinese tells as it is.

    Want to hear more?

    • Replies: @Black Picard
  105. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, how are you confirming real life evidence? By watching CNN and reading the NYTimes? These mainstream platforms aren’t going to cover discrimination against Asians.

    And do you think Asians react the same to discrimination as Blacks or Jews? Of course not. Blacks are willing to burn down a city if they are pushed to far and Jews will get the entire world to sound the alarm if a Synagogue is graffiti.

    For better and worse, Asians don’t react the same way. So how are you so sure there is no discrimination just by reading your newspapers?

    For instance, here is a 5 year old Asian kid from Texas who got his face sliced open just for being Asian. Yet how many news sources covered this story? Imagine if the victim was black or a Jew.

    Here is another story on how Asian Americans are getting assaulted.

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/490373-attacks-on-asian-americans-at-about-100-per-day-due-to

    And here is a story about a woman who had acid poured on her head for being Asian.

    I could pull a million links for you if you like. But how are you going to know about these things unless you look for them?

    One thing you may not realize is that this is not just limited to America. Asians see white people attacking Asians in Australia, Canada, and Western Europe to a point where we warn each other about traveling to one of those countries now.

  106. Ron Unz says:
    @Tor597

    Ron, how are you confirming real life evidence? By watching CNN and reading the NYTimes? These mainstream platforms aren’t going to cover discrimination against Asians.

    Well, I don’t watch TV because it’s too stupid. But I do read the NYT and WSJ every morning, along with two major CA newspapers, the SF Chronicle and SJ Mercury News. If there were any significant number of white racial attacks against Asians, I find it *extremely* difficult to believe that the PC media would be hiding it.

    Let’s take the story in The Hill that you linked:

    https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/490373-attacks-on-asian-americans-at-about-100-per-day-due-to

    Obviously, Rep. Judy Chu and her staff have been diligently gathering incidents, and she claims that reports of alleged anti-Asian “hate crimes” have been running up to 100/day, totaling over 1,000 incidents. I find those numbers quite plausible.

    But what exactly is a “hate crime”? I think that includes yelling an insult or maybe writing a nasty note to someone. Perhaps even giving someone a dirty look. The absolutely worst incidents she describes are three physical assaults or stabbings, with a total of five victims. There’s absolutely no indication that whites were the attackers in any of these cases, and it seems quite possible to me that most or even all of them involved blacks or perhaps Hispanics.

    There are 21M Asian-Ams, and let’s suppose that two or three of them have suffered serious violent racial attacks at the hands of whites over the last six months. How significant does this seem?

    Well, during that same period, America has had about 8,000 murders and maybe 300,000 “excess deaths” from the Covid-19 disaster. I’d also guess that many, many thousands of Asian-Ams have been mugged, robbed, or raped for entirely non-racial reasons.

    Getting back to my original point, 6 million Asians live in CA, and if there were any significant number of white racial attacks against them, I find it *extremely* difficult to believe it wouldn’t have been covered in my local newspapers.

    The whole situation is like when the silly WNs talk about the all the whites murdered by illegal immigrants, which is just a total hoax. There are at least 11M illegals in America, and most years it’s very difficult for WNs to find even 10 cases of ordinary middle-class whites murdered by illegals (this excludes wives killing husbands and vice-versa, or rival drug-dealers shooting each other).

    Basically, the average white is probably more likely to be hit by lightning than killed by an illegal, and my guess is that Asians being violently attacked by whites for racial reasons pretty much falls into the same category.

    Don’t get me wrong. All Americans should all be very careful to avoid getting hit by lightning, and I’m sure you could find some horrifying Tweets showing pictures of the poor lightning victims. But with maybe 300,000 deaths from Covid-19 so far this year, I’m just not sure lightning is our greatest national concern.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  107. @Goddard

    Lol, “we conceived it”. Almost like some huwhite mulatto rejects of Europe threw a stick of Kryptonite into the Ocean and the New World just poppep out.

    “We built it”. Should have thought twice before importing Africans and literal boatloads of Chinese to do labor for you.

    “When Trumpenyid said Fuck the Chinks, it is on you chinks to understand your places as OUR slaves and not the enemies, mmmkay”

    From an Euro perspective, only the kikes and their anglo pet monkeys can be this mentally unstable.

    • Troll: GeneralRipper
  108. Chinaman says:
    @Tor597

    These hate crimes like this that makes my blood boil. These kids doesn’t even look Chinese!

    I feel sorry because this is between China and America and it shouldn’t affect other Asians.

    These are cowards who only attack innocents and defenseless. I dare them to take the fight to China.

    All Asians need to unite against this existential threat.

    • Troll: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @anonymous
  109. @Tulip

    The GOP, for good or bad, is heavily identified with Evangelical Christians which can be off-putting to people from other religious traditions. A more secular GOP probably has a higher likelihood of attracting Asian voters.

    Aaah, you mean a party like Libertarian or Green Party perhaps? Those 2 parties have far more to offer Asians than the treasonous AngloZio controlled GOP-Democratic Game of Political Charades to paraphrase GoT.

  110. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Mr Unz

    Your site is a rare gem because the articles you publish touch on the most controversial subjects and they elicit a diverse range of views and emotions from commenters that they wouldn’t dare to express in real life. You get a rare glimpse into the psyche of what people really think. It is this unfiltered truth that really makes your site a treasure trove for any student of human nature.

    I fancy myself as a rational person in real life but it is hard to remain dispassionate in the face of the raw racism and psychopathic views expressed here in some cases. Even though my personal experience in New York and Australia for a few years has largely desensitized me to most of these sentiments but I have definitely been”radicalized” by the constant barrage of attacks and hostility I see here. (or for that matter, anything non-white). No self-respecting Chinaman or Asian will let these WN racists “whitewash” history and desecrate the memories and suffering of our forefathers.

    I will just say it is hard to appreciate what Asians (whether American or well-traveled ones) have to go through in Western “democracies” unless you have walked in their shoes. We agreed on the historical parallels between now and 1937-39 and I honestly feel there is a looming existential threat for the Chinese if we are not vigilant.

    On a separate note, I have been bogged down by work and have yet to look at different options to translate your articles into Chinese and to get it published in Chinese channels. This is obviously not my forte but I will try my best. Your perspective deserves to be told.

    However, I did do a deep dive into the COVID wastewater studies (which only required some basic googling skills) and did find studies from the US.

    One was actually done by the CDC. They tested archived samples in Louisiana and Massachusetts from Jan 2020 and found nothing confirming your thesis that there was no widespread outbreak before March. We can reject the A\B hypothesis for now until further evidence emerged. I think we both agreed it is hard to put full faith into any “science” done by the CDC.

    https://msystems.asm.org/content/msys/5/4/e00614-20.full.pdf

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969720341437?via%3Dihub

    https://cste.sharefile.com/share/view/s552abc13bbc436d8?skipNativeCheck=true

    None of the studies done in the US look at archival samples older than Jan 2020 whereas the Brazil, Milan, Spain was curious enough to go much further.

    Here’s the Barcelona March 19 study that I kept citing.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627v1.full.pdf

    So besides the anomalous March 19 results, the earliest sample was found *consistently*
    in Jan.

    This is the Brazilian study which shows consistent positive results after 27th Nov 2019 ( also on 11th Dec and ) so we can confidently say it was in the Americas *since at least Dec last year*.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.26.20140731v1.full.pdf

    At a minimum, we can establish that the virus spreading around the world sometime in Nov-Dec 2019. It could have started anywhere (my bet is still Bacelona because the strain there is the oldest and closest to the bat virus). In any case, what really impressed me during this googling exercise was the amount of MSN coverage that was given to these wastewater studies all around the world. It definitely garnered a lot more attention than the Fort Detrick story or your article. Perhaps there is an angle to incorporate some of this research and timeline in your narrative so to strengthen your case.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  111. anonymous[795] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chinaman

    Right on, Chinaman! You are the man.

    It’s time for someone to stand up to America and give the Americans a taste of their own medicine. I just hope China has the balls to push the button and launch the nukes on America. Everyone is looking to China for salvation. China is our only hope. Put this mad dog America out of its misery.

    It’s now or never, and even China is losing time. Taiwan is becoming more and more gay, more progressive and brainwashed with Western ideas. You see how the Americans are messing with HK, doing their usual mischief. Even Chinese women are getting entitled with feminist bs and not f*** enough, and the birth rates are dropping all over Asia. and When are the Chinese going to stand up and say enough is enough and fight already? I mean really fight, no more pussy economic warfare bullshit. At least make the North Koreans launch a nuke as a proxy or something.

    This is China’s moment!

    • Thanks: Chinaman
    • Troll: GeneralRipper
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  112. @Tor597

    You know where Asians could avoid such misfortunes? Here is a clue, the place both begins and ends with the letter “a”

    Also, those attacks against Asians are not being covered because the attackers are black, this is why they don’t cover anti-White racist attacks either.

    • Agree: GeneralRipper
  113. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    This is the Brazilian study which shows consistent positive results after 27th Nov 2019 ( also on 11th Dec and ) so we can confidently say it was in the Americas *since at least Dec last year*…At a minimum, we can establish that the virus spreading around the world sometime in Nov-Dec 2019. It could have started anywhere (my bet is still Bacelona because the strain there is the oldest and closest to the bat virus).

    It seems to me those results tend to strongly support my belief in the “orthodox” theory that the global outbreak began in Wuhan, China during late Oct/early Nov.

    Wuhan is a huge city, and it seems easy to imagine that international travel had begun spreading the virus to Brazil and other locations within a month or two after it started in Wuhan.

    On the other hand, if the single Barcelona datapoint in March were real rather than mere lab-error, it seems very strange that there would be absolutely zero evidence for the virus either in that city or anywhere else in the world for the next seven or eight months. Obviously, claiming “lab-error” seems like the easy way out, but in this particular case the circumstantial evidence really seems pretty overwhelming.

    From what I’ve read here and there, the various viral testing-methods do have a significant rate of false-positives, and I suspect that’s what’s behind the totally anomalous Barcelona result.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  114. @Tor597

    The perpetrator in the Texas case is named “Jose L. Gomez”. This is an example of white on Asian violence how?

    https://www.q13fox.com/news/man-accused-of-stabbing-asian-family-over-coronavirus-could-face-fbi-hate-crime-charge

    Try harder.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  115. @Ron Unz

    Mr. Unz, it is a nice site; I am very grateful and thank you for it.

    It appears other Asian commenters– or those purporting to be Asian– seem to be interpreting anti-Chinese sentiment and a string of concomitant incidents as a top-down, society-wide persecution of Asians. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Now, it is true that fingers have been pointed at China, and it is true that there are incidents in which Americans of Asian descent are confused with Chinese nationals. This leads to situations in which innocent people are harmed. It is also true that the media overlooks all of this. For example, a Japanese pianist was assaulted by teens in Harlem about two weeks ago. Initially, only the New York Post– a tabloid, according to Wikipedia– covered it. Now, it’s a New York Times Story.

    The reason why there’s a media blackout of these incidents is because the perpetrators are blacks or Hispanics, not because the victims are Asian. Commenters here don’t seem to realize how the media works: the media does not wish to cover these incidents at all, but if it does, it omits the racial profiler of the attacker in a last ditch attempt to align the incident with the ‘Whites are the only racists’ narrative by hoping people infer that the attacker was Gentile. Ironically enough, the purveyors of this narrative are themselves elite whites and so by interpreting the event as indicative of ‘White Nationalism”, Asians are only proving to be pawns of the very “Whites’ that are controlling them, and that they are perhaps too afraid to call out: Jews.

  116. Chinaman says:

    It appears other Asian commenters– or those purporting to be Asian– seem to be interpreting anti-Chinese sentiment and a string of concomitant incidents as a top-down, society-wide persecution of Asians. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Now, it is true that fingers have been pointed at China,

    Asian to Asian…I seriously hope you are not suggesting that these hate crimes would be OK if the victim was indeed…Chinese? Let’s not shift the focus away from the nature of the crime here. I don’t think the poor Hmong\Thai kid cared about the racial profile of the perpetrator, what shade of brown he is, or how it was covered on TV.

    The real question that begs to be asked is whether these hate crimes would have still occurred if COVID was reported to have originated in Barcelona or Brazil? (which is quite plausible per the wastewater studies) Would Mr. Gomez still have decided to go kill the next random person who speaks Spanish or Portuguese? Would some crazy Chinese dude (or General Cho) just decide to go shoot the next brown dude he sees? If it originated in Russia, would he have dared to try this on someone who looks like Khabib Nurmagomedov? I doubt it. Did Asians”allow” this to happen to them? Should we blame the victim? I think all of us have some soul-searching to do on these questions.

    I don’t live in the US anymore so I don’t know how prevalent these anti- Chinese\Asians sentiments are now (I guess it depends on which state you live in) but to deny that COVID has brought latent hostilities and racism -even at a subconscious level- against Asians to the surface is to ignore the realities of race in America.

    • Replies: @Cho Seung-hui
  117. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well…we already have ways to find out whether the virus that was spreading in a particular location came from Wuhan or some other country based on its strain and genetic profile. This is not a new technology, these are established epidemiological protocols to determine how contagious diseases such as the flu spreads.

    Per the commenter dux.ie on your site, only ONE case of COVID out of 85 in America came from Wuhan…the rest all came from Europe *specifically matching the strain in Barcelona *

    Per the Australian prime minister, 80% of the COVID cases in Australia came from America. I think there were 1 or 2 cases that came from Wuhan.

    These are the facts. I will not try to over-interpret or extrapolate them. I guess it is still plausible it originated in Wuhan after all but I will say that the epidemiological evidence we have would suggest that it could have originated anywhere.

    I am quite certain that the predominant strain that is ravaging Brazil and Europe now is not the strain found in Wuhan in Dec 2019. That would be like saying a case of smallbox in India came from malaria discovered in the jungles of Congo.

    What they haven’t done is to study the strain and genetic profile of the samples found in the wastewater. Does the Barcelona or Brazilian sample match the COVID strains that were found in Wuhan? That would clarify everything. I wouldn’t jump to any conclusion before we have further results.

  118. @Chinaman

    Asian to Asian…I seriously hope you are not suggesting that these hate crimes would be OK if the victim was indeed…Chinese?

    I already said that innocent people were being attacked, so, no, I never endorsed the attacks.

    I don’t think the poor Hmong\Thai kid cared about the racial profile of the perpetrator, what shade of brown he is, or how it was covered on TV

    I also don’t think the Hmong/Thai kid viewed himself as Chinese. Actually, as someone that grew up around these types of people, I’m pretty damn sure that they don’t view themselves as Chinese.

    The real question that begs to be asked is whether these hate crimes would have still occurred if COVID was reported to have originated in Barcelona or Brazil?

    No, but they’re not happening JUST because it was reported to have started in China. They’re also happening because the existing set of people that physically resemble Chinese are encouraged to maintain a cultural distance from the rest of the demographics of the country, thus making it harder to distinguish between them and actual foreign nationals from China. There was also anti-Chinese prejudice in Japan after the outbreak, but it was never directed against the Chinese raised in Japan that are physically indistinguishable from local Japanese.

    Now, it is true that there is increased laxity amongst the policy following the BLM protests, and this manifests itself in non-prosecution of legitimate hate crimes against Asians. But this isn’t because of any recent surge in white nationalism, but more so blacks and Hispanics picking on Asians and getting away with it due to political correctness.

    I don’t live in the US anymore so I don’t know how prevalent these anti- Chinese\Asians sentiments are now

    So why should we care about what you have to say? I’m Asian, I live in America, it isn’t that bad. I’ve been verbally harassed due to my race recently, but it was due to the person being on drugs, and at the same there were a number of people (every race, including whites) that thought that person was in the wrong and sympathized with my situation. The people that started the GoFundme for the Japanese pianist that was jumped were also white.

    The last person that reported on White on Asian violence cited a case in which the perpetrator was Hispanic. The whole thing is a hoax.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  119. Anonymous[942] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    LOL!

    This “anon” is none other than one of the Secret Masters of the Western World – “you know who”.

    As if Chinese can be played for fools by such transparent, simpleton tactics.

    “Let’s you and him fight”. Uh-huh, riiiight . . .

  120. They vote so because of identity. It is vote against whites, at least those whites with a spine.

    Everything else matters less: social policy, loony evangelicals, political turns left & right. Again, this is Sobran writ large. Democratic whites are not perceived as being “proud whites”.

    • Replies: @Black Picard
  121. Chinaman says:
    @Cho Seung-hui

    They’re also happening because the existing set of people that physically resemble Chinese are encouraged to maintain a cultural distance from the rest of the demographics of the country,

    That statement really gets us closer to the heart of the matter. Will Asians born in America ever be considered Americans ? The Chinese exclusion act was as explicit as it will ever get to how they actually feel about Asians in THEIR country.

    So why should we care about what you have to say? I’m Asian, I live in America, it isn’t that bad. I’ve been verbally harassed due to my race recently

    Perhaps you should spend some time in your ancestral homeland and feel what it is like to be accepted completely for once. You need some perspective in order to reflect on your current circumstances. May be you already did and didn’t feel that way in which case I feel sorry for you. Seems to be me you are totally desensitised on the subject of race and that’s probably a good thing. I don’t live in America but my daily life is affected by America’s global hegemony. I also have a lot of investments and companies in America so that makes me a stakeholder. I own a small piece of it. In a capitalistic plutocracy like America, that probably makes me as – or even more- American than you.

  122. East Asian diaspora groups (I am primarily referring to ethnic Chinese here, but similar observations could be extended to other East Asian groups), whether in the Philippines, Indonesia, or the US, have never been known for high levels of political participation and engagement. Even within their own countries, political apathy is the rule. There are all sorts of potential historical and cultural (and possibly even genetic) explanations for this, but regardless of the reason, it’s hard not to notice the stark differences in political culture between countries like Japan, the PRC, etc and the United States.

    It is correct to say that many older and (in some cases) first-generation East Asians hold views that would be considered conservative in the current US political paradigm. However, these sub-groups are also the least likely to vote. Younger and 2nd/3rd+ generation East Asians are over-represented at universities and within many professional or “elite” careers. I.e. environments where the left-wing political culture is becoming increasingly conformist and repressive. However, these younger and/or more “assimilated” Asians are also more likely to vote.
    I think this phenomenon is a major part of the leftward shift in the Asian vote over the past 20-30 years. It is also true that the Indian diaspora (a disproportionately well-educated group which is also over-represented in professional careers) leans strongly left and skews the average if you count them as part of the broader “Asian” umbrella category.

    Overall, I think low levels of engagement and voter turnout among many Asian ethnic groups means that there is room for a great deal of future political shift (either to the right or to the left) within this demographic. There are still a lot of Asian eligible voters with political worldviews that are not fully formed or actualized, and many more who may already essentially align with one political movement or another in terms of beliefs/ideology but have not yet been electorally mobilized.

  123. Anonymous[283] • Disclaimer says:

    Asians tend to be conformists, not independent thinkers

    Barf. These shallow stereotypes and cliches are tiresome.

    Will Asians Stay Woke?

    I’m Asian American and I’ve never been woke. But while I started off identifying as Republican, I haven’t identified as Republican since 9/11 when America went collectively crazy.

    I’ve often been puzzled, too, why Asians lean predominately liberal. Giving it a few minutes of thought, it seems to me that there aren’t a lot of reasons for Asians to be attracted to the right circa now.

    The right is the demonstrative party of war and regime change. Why would I support that?
    The right is the party of Wall St., big money, socialism for the rich, bankers and robbers. Why should I approve of that?
    The right is the party of apathy and disinterest. Asians are systemically ignored. Where is the welcome in that?

    2008 voter stats are arguably not meaningful. Who could support McCain after 8 years of Bush disaster?

    On policy, the left is not better. They are also the party of war and identitarian nonsense. But they court women like the GOP never does. That’s 1/2 the Asian vote right there.

    It could also be that given the higher educational attainments of Asians in general, they’re byproducts of America’s left-leaning elite universities. They don’t lean left because they’re Asian, they lean left because that’s how they are being indoctrinated by white/Jewish/gay professors at Cal and Yale.

    Much of the GOP’s support also comes from the Midwest and flyover country. But Asians don’t live there.

    Maybe the GOP can try to make hay with anti-CCP propaganda and HK, but the Cold War is effectively over. Anti-communism is not a big political driver.

    But if the GOP wants Asian support, it’s probably not Asians that needs to become more middle class. It’s the GOP that should focus more on the middle class. Be normal. Stop bombing brown people on the other side of the hemisphere and half-way around the world.

  124. @Chinaman

    Hes a cuck and at heart a multiculti whore in the truest sense. Why would the thousand of ethnicities in Asia reintegrate some self hating cuckolds who hate their own heritage?
    Traitorous expats shouldn’t be welcomed back.

  125. @Chinaman

    The Chinese exclusion act was as explicit as it will ever get to how they actually feel about Asians in THEIR country.

    … but Chinese immigration also resumed at a later date. You’re picking a specific point in history to indicate how a country has viewed an ethnicity over its entire history. It’s a shoddy methodology.

    Perhaps you should spend some time in your ancestral homeland and feel what it is like to be accepted completely for once. You need some perspective in order to reflect on your current circumstances.

    I’m of mixed-race, but I’ve lived in both of my constituent ancestral countries. And while there can be a baseline, visceral level of “acceptance” based on appearance, it’s actually a really hollow feeling. For example, I can pass as a Mongolian at times, but am not, and would ultimately never want to live in Mongolia. Now, there is a sense of camaraderie that might exist between me and “local” residents of the countries from which my ancestors originated, but its because I’ve put in the time to learn the language and immerse myself in the culture. It’s not merely a function of us “looking the same”, and it’s something I’ve also found to exist within certain pockets of the United States, at least insofar as identity politics has not yet reared it’s head.

    I don’t live in America but my daily life is affected by America’s global hegemony. I also have a lot of investments and companies in America so that makes me a stakeholder. I own a small piece of it. In a capitalistic plutocracy like America, that probably makes me as – or even more- American than you

    I guess this is where we differ. You’re confusing the watered down, politically correct, propositional definition of an “American” promulgated by treasonous elites trying to drive down the price of labor, with what a citizen has historically been understood to be. You’re about as American as some British multinational corporation operating in Africa is African, which is to say, not at all. Someone like that might have a stake in the American economy, but they have no stake in the American nation. Of course, right now that sort of parasitism is encouraged because American elites are themselves parasitic, so I blame the game, not the player. And many post 1965 Asians were too late to get to America when it actually had a culture. Hell, I’ve had to engage in this behavior in the past, out of self-preservation. But I know it is without honor, and people eventually catch on it. If you actually view this sort of behavior as normal, you pose an existential threat to those with an actual stake here, and its fully legitimate for them to oppose you.

    I encounter foreign nationals from Asia all the time; they claim to be for their constituent country, but in reality, they’re here to avoid having to compete with their countrymen, and ultimately engage in a parasitic existence in which they have no loyalty to the country from which they came, nor to the culture of their destination. It’s a pitiful existence.

  126. @Tor597

    Asians see white people attacking Asians in Australia, Canada, and Western Europe to a point where we warn each other about traveling to one of those countries now.

    Ah yes, so here we have one of the “model” Asian immigrant groups getting the heat turned up on them now that exceptional Uncle Sam feels threatened by China’s economic rise. Very disturbing indeed, but is anybody who knows America’s history surprised? Nope, considering the US gov’t is a dishonest private entity owned & controlled by the City of London. A nation that can’t keep or abide by treaties (INF, JCPOA, numerous native Indian treaties ignored, etc,). Instead they “lie, cheat & steal” as pompous Secretary of the Deep State Mike Pompeo candidly stated on camera for all to see.

    But here’s my point…
    Law abiding blacks for decades have always been treated unfairly when they were just trying to develop their communities. And no, I’m NOT talking about black thugs or black gang-bangers or black criminals that “author” Paul Kersey (aka Michael J. Thompson) loves to shove down our throats so he can sow division & hatred between blacks & whites.

    All one needs to do is revisit the despicable destruction of Black Wall Street (Tulsa, OK) to SEE that this is all about economics & control. Hey Paul (er Mike!), have you ever thought for a moment that IF institutional racism (redlining, gerrymandering, burning down black businesses, etc.) wasn’t such a BIG thing AFTER slavery was abolished that just MAYBE blacks would be much better off in terms of having a close knit productive community? So STOP being intellectually dishonest here.

    Where are your insights on the ramifications of actions like this by “Christian” whites back then?

    And let’s not forget about the Atlanta Massacre of 1906 where “Christian conservative” whites got jealous of successful black business enterprise:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Massacre_of_1906

    Sounds like what the Chinese are now experiencing today via sanctions that will eventually lead to war. Same bullshit the Iranians & Venezuelans are experiencing today when Uncle Sam isn’t able to steal their resources.

    Well, I’m waiting for a response, Mike (er Paul)! You can’t provide one, can you?

    And what on earth do you expect to transpire when the treasonous CIA funnels tons of crack cocaine into the inner cities primarily targeted at blacks? See the work of murdered journalist Gary Webb for more info:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb

    Ok, did Chinese, Vietnamese, East Indian, or Korean immigrants go through shit like that back then? You truly are an intellectually dishonest opinionist — not a writer nor journalist. But intellectually dishonest.

    And since the Chinese are stepping on Captain Euro’s exceptional toes, now the white AngloSaxon Establishment is getting all bent out of shape.

    I’m getting my popcorn out. Ya wanna know why?
    Because China & the Chinese aren’t as easy to divide & conquer like America’s disorganized blacks.
    Good riddance!

    • Agree: Tor597
  127. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, if your point is that Whites and Asians don’t hate each other and they are not killing each other in the streets I agree with you there.

    Many whites have no problem with Asians so long as Asians “know their place” in America’s Caste System. But what happens when Asians become too rich, or they take too many spots in the good colleges, or Asia outcompetes America?

    That is when you see white people lash out at us. Some of this is just insults, some of this is discrimination in the school system or at work, and some of this is violence.

    If you aren’t concerned by this, I am not surprised since this is typical of white people. But the point is what Asians feel and think.

    Here is a study that looked at Asian American sentiment: https://stopaapihate.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Stop-AAPI-Hate-Youth-Campaign-Report-9-17.pdf

    80% expressed anger probably because they faced discrimination themselves. I think if anything, Asians are already likely to underreport hate crimes or to think an assault was for different reasons.

    But as I said previously you can’t view racial issues of blacks and Asians in the same way. Blacks are much more likely to get killed due to racism than any other race because blacks are not going to stand down even when they should.

    Look at this article. It is no surprise that blacks have fairly consistent hate crimes reported and that Jews have by far the largest reported number of hate crimes. This is consistent with Jewish behavior I’ve seen where they will 100% report hate crimes. Asians are less likely to report but you can still see here that there was a spike this year which is consistent with Asian experience all over the country.

    https://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/anti-asian-hate-crime-jumps-1-900-percent/article_f007a05b-f43e-54ca-a3c6-1b5493333dea.html

    Asians are more likely to avoid bad situations by moving to a more diverse neighborhood that is welcoming like NY and CA. And if they find themselves in a hostile situation Asians are more likely to avoid getting killed. Asians are also much much more likely to not report a crime.

    But that doesn’t mean there is not discrimination against Asians and that it did not explode due to Trump and the pandemic.

    You say that if there was an explosion in hatred against Asians it would appear in the local paper. Well it has appeared in many papers including your 2 local ones.

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Coronavirus-Asian-Americans-across-Bay-Area-15235380.php

    https://www.mercurynews.com/hundreds-of-anti-asian-american-hate-incidents-reported-in-california-during-pandemic

    I don’t know why you think none of the people doing this are white people. I can certainly remember links to stories that included whites, and if you want I can get you more links this weekend. Or you can just look up stories from Australia or Europe where Asians are getting attacked.

    Or if you want you can just keep going back on this twitter account since he covers Anti-Asian crime.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/HopClear

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Chinaman
  128. Tor597 says:
    @Cho Seung-hui

    I’ll get you links this weekend. Apologies since I have a busy schedule this week. But you are crazy if you don’t think there are lots of white people doing this.

    Who do you think is assaulting Asians in Australia? The aboriginals?

    I didn’t link that case because it was a white guy. I linked to it because a 5 year old kid got his face cut open.

    But I don’t take you very seriously anyways. You are either a weeb lapping as Asian, or you are very young and you got a lot of disappointment ahead of you when you realize that white people will never accept you as an equal.

  129. @Chinaman

    We both know at least 50% of the “ White nationalists” here will not bat an eye to do to Asians what they did to the Native Indians. Genocide is in their DNA.

    Chinaman, you mean like this destruction of Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma between May 31 and June 1, 1921? 🤔👀

    It has been called “the single worst incident of racial violence in American history.” The attack, carried out on the ground and from private aircraft, destroyed more than 35 square blocks of the district—at that time the wealthiest black community in the United States, known as “Black Wall Street”.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

    Or this?

    Freedmen and their descendants had gained the franchise during Reconstruction, and whites increasingly feared and resented their exercise of political power. African Americans had established prosperous businesses and developed an elite who distinguished themselves from working-class blacks. They were resented by some whites. Among the successful black businessmen was Alonzo Herndon, who owned and operated a large, refined barber shop that served prominent white men. This new status brought increased competition between blacks and whites for jobs and heightened class distinctions.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Massacre_of_1906

    Honestly, I can’t ever recall hearing or reading about the Chinese doing jealous shit like the above.

    But according to Protestant Anglo Saxon folklore, “blacks can’t produce nothing; blacks are dumb; blacks can’t survive without whites; whites didn’t do nuffin to blacks, blah blah blah.” riiiight.
    In essence, it turns out that Anglo America can’t survive unless the US Dollar is the world’s reserve currency and/or they have vassals running other countries going against the wishes of their people.

    See America Has No Allies, Only Hostages by Caitlin Johnstone:

    The U.S.-centralized empire functions like a giant blob that slowly works to absorb nations which have not yet been converted into imperial client states. It is rare that a nation is able to escape from that blob and rejoin the unabsorbed nations like China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela and Cuba in their fight for self-sovereignty, and it is encouraging that it was able to do so.

    source: https://consortiumnews.com/2020/10/21/america-has-no-allies-only-hostages/

    At least the Chinese, by & large, are united with a different mentality from the American Pirates. Blacks never had that luxury. Lord Anglo just couldn’t leave them alone to enjoy freedom, democracy & liberty AFTER slavery was done.

  130. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    That statement really gets us closer to the heart of the matter. Will Asians born in America ever be considered Americans ? The Chinese exclusion act was as explicit as it will ever get to how they actually feel about Asians in THEIR country…I don’t live in America but my daily life is affected by America’s global hegemony.

    I’d very strongly disagree with your analysis of current American society. I think you’d previously mentioned that in the past you’d lived and worked here for a few years, but I’m really not sure that gives you a deep understanding of the issues, and the (highly atypical) views of some of the writers or commenters on this website may be even more misleading.

    From the early 1990s onward, issues of race, ethnicity, and social policy had been my primary focus, and I’ve published several hundred thousands words in this subject-area, probably more than just about anyone else in America who comes to mind. And although many of my very controversial claims were heavily disputed at the time, I think nearly all of them have proven correct, giving me a great deal of confidence in my own analyses. Here’s a link to some of my more important articles:

    https://www.unz.com/page/race-ethnicity-articles/

    Let’s consider your analysis. If Asian-Ams today aren’t really considered “Americans” then surely the same must be true of Hispanics, given that the WN-ish attacks upon them have been far more frequent and harsher over the last couple of decades, certainly including the harder-core Trumpists who generally ignored Asians until the beginning of this year.

    Now let’s focus upon California, whose society I know best. Hispanics and Asians together are almost 60% of the population, outnumbering white Europeans nearly two-to-one. So under your framework, most Californians aren’t really considered “Americans.” Obvious jokes aside, does this really make any logical sense? Similarly, nearly half of all Texans aren’t really “Americans.”

    Here’s another interesting datapoint. Of the various candidates running for president, Andrew Yang was Chinese and Tulsi Gabbard part Asian. Yet although both were very minor candidates mostly ignored by the MSM and given almost no chance of willing, at times they both drew a great deal of support from prominent Alt-Right/WN figures and their activist followers, certainly attracting far more enthusiasm than Trump himself, who was widely despised for having betrayed his 2016 supporters. Does this make any sense in your racial framework?

    I think your analysis of the racial aspects of American society is probably 50-60 years out of date. Don’t forget that the Chinese Exclusion Act to which you refer was enacted almost 140 years ago, when Chinese still lived under the Imperial rule of the Manchu dynasty. Suppose I were to argue that Chinese are innately drawn to living under the rule of an absolute divine monarchy, and pointed to the Manchu and many earlier dynasties as strong evidence. Would that be a valid argument in 2020?

    If you haven’t already done so, you really should consider reading my (admittedly extremely long) recent article on white racialism in America, or at least the section in which I discuss Wilmot Robertson’s book, the ur-text of modern White Nationalism:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/white-racialism-in-america-then-and-now/#wilmot-robertson-the-dispossessed-majority-and-instauration

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Tor597
  131. Ron Unz says:
    @Tor597

    You say that if there was an explosion in hatred against Asians it would appear in the local paper. Well it has appeared in many papers including your 2 local ones.

    Sure, I had certainly read both those articles when they originally ran. But if you’ll notice, even the most extreme and egregious incidents described basically involve someone shouting a racial insult at an Asian person. That’s exactly what I had been claiming upthread. Classifying them as “hate crimes” severely distorts the impression they invoke. It’s like the term “sexual assault” which can often encompass everything from outright violent rape to merely crude verbal remarks.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that many cities, especially SF, are filled with large numbers of somewhat deranged “street people” who often verbally assault normal people in their vicinity. Once Trump and FoxNews made “China virus” talk widespread, these people probably began to target Asians on such grounds, which the MSM classifies as “hate crime” incidents. But when they normally target other people for totally random or irrational reasons, the MSM ignores it. However, the verbal harassment involved isn’t any different.

    I think your analysis of the situation and the sources you cite are wildly unrealistic. Let’s take violent attacks upon Asians or even just verbal harassment/racial insults. Based upon decades of very closely following racial/ethnic issues, my strong impression is that on a per capita basis, blacks are 40x, 50x, perhaps even 100x more likely than whites to target Asians in that way.

    But since criticizing black misbehavior is considered such a severe violation of “political correctness,” Asian activists almost totally ignore it and instead focus almost entirely upon the tiny sliver of whites who engage in similar activities.

    I think the whole thing is almost as ridiculous as the huge MSM/Black Lives Matter movement’s focus upon the alleged “epidemic” of police killings of young blacks, which is just utter and total nonsense and a complex hoax.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Tor597
  132. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    We both know at least 50% of the “ White nationalists” here will not bat an eye to do to Asians what they did to the Native Indians. Genocide is in their DNA.

    I almost missed this. I realize that you’re not an American and obviously get most of your knowledge of our country from our (very “politically correct”) MSM, but the notion of a “genocide” of the Native Americans is utterly ridiculous. I think a good analogy is the current PRC “genocide” of the Uyghurs, and that story is being promoted by much the same sort of people.

    Most good estimates are that the entire Amerind population of North America was probably only about 1 million or at most 2 million at the time white settlement began, and I think there are probably far more Amerinds around today than that if you count fractional ancestry. When numbers go up, you generally aren’t talking “genocide.”

    Start to finish, all the white/Indian wars only lasted about two centuries, and if you look up the most horrific white massacres/slaughters/battles against Indians during that entire period, I think the absolute largest involved just a few hundred deaths. I’ve never really looked into it, but my guess would be that the total number of Amerinds killed by whites in battles or massacres across those two centuries would be somewhere in the tens of thousands during 200+ years, or perhaps a few hundred per year.

    Meanwhile, there have already been nearly 650 homicides so far this year in just the city of Chicago. So I guess Chicago must be experiencing a “super-genocide.”

    Basically, most of the Amerinds were thinly populated and fairly primitive tribes who ended up getting pushed aside, swamped, or absorbed by the vastly more numerous white settlers. From what I’ve sometimes read, the past expansion of the Han Chinese into large portions of what is now China followed a not-dissimilar pattern.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Antiwar7
  133. throtler says:
    @Tor597

    What the news doesn’t tell you is that black people are attacking asians because of the virus, not white people.

  134. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    U.S. government to authorize over 1,500 wars, attacks and raids on Indians, the most of any country in the world against its Indigenous people. By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 Indigenous people remained, a sharp decline from the estimated 5 million to 15 million living in North America when Columbus arrived in 1492.

    This is my understanding of that piece of American history. To be sure, are you disputing the 96-99% population reduction of Native Indians during that period or are you arguing the culpability or role that the colonists played in that population decline ? Or are we simply arguing semantics here ? I am a bit shocked that you would challenge the notion of the “genocide” of Native Indian since I believe that would be considered a textbook definition of a genocide in today’s world. Having said that, now that I am getting used to you challenging my beliefs on various matters and having to acknowledge the paucity of my own understanding, I will wait for your detailed analysis on the matter in the future.

    • Agree: Tor597
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  135. Anonymous[942] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    This exchange between @Tor597 and Ron Unz himself is interesting in itself, but can only be inconclusive in the end. Both commentators see what they want to see, even if looking at the same reports, news items and indeed, data.

    The one and only way we can come close to getting a handle on any anti-Asian racism in the United States or Europe is if professional surveys with detailed, neutral (non-leading) questions are asked, then the results broken down by income, age group, profession and national origin. Then MAYBE we can get a better picture of the problem, if any.

    Otherwise, any posters regarding this issue are simply talking of their own anecdotal and/or personal experiences, which though perfectly valid in their milieu, may not reflect the true state of things.

    There is one thing I would point out, and it is important.

    In the Asian communities themselves in Western nations, and in the various nations from which Asians come, there is a fast growing perception of discrimination against their ethnic group(s) in North America and Europe. This, in an ethnic community not prone to victim mentality, is very telling.

    Asians may not be loud complainers, nor do they weaponize media or politics. But they do have social networks and talk and compare notes among themselves. This is to be expected. They recount their own experiences, that of their kids, and those of their friends – and the emerging picture disturbs them deeply.

    All of this has begun to filter back to their societies of origin, such that the elites and ordinary folk in those countries have begun to put the word out: “We are not welcome anymore in the West, and it is time to cross those places off our list of places to study, to work or to do business”. And they are doing exactly that.

    In an ironic way, this is precisely the effect that such racism aims for; make the Asians feel unwelcome so they leave and never come back. IT IS WORKING VERY WELL.

    Ironic, since this all simply rids the West of its least “problem”, the small numbers of quiet Asians.

    • Agree: d dan, HeebHunter, Tor597
  136. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Admittedly, I have a superficial understanding of the issues and race in America is an extremely complex and subjective subject. Honestly, I don’t care much about race relations in America and the other commenters is right that I shouldn’t opine on it. That said, my framework to understand race relations ( anywhere around the world) does have a lot of explanatory power on historical events and fit the empirical data. Crude and visceral when compared your nuanced analysis, it is, however, a scientific worldview informed by what we know about biological differences between races, in-group/out-group psychology and the extinction events of various archaic human species. It might be beyond the scope of our discussion to go into that but I will just say that most of our amygdala and reptilian brain have not evolved beyond our hunter gatherer day and often overwhelms our prefrontal cortex ( especially in the case of 2 digit IQ individuals) when it comes to race relations. The various anecdotes you have cited is the manifestation of that struggle between our base instincts and higher mental functions. We have the luxury to be cerebral and analytical about the subject in this day and age because most of humanity are relatively well-fed…that wasn’t the case for 99% of human history when everyone is pushing against the Malthusian frontier. That facade of civilisation\colourblind-ness melts away pretty quickly when society is on the brink of collapse.

  137. Chinaman says:
    @Tor597

    https://mobile.twitter.com/HopClear

    Thanks. This is a great compilation. I see Plenty of white perpetrators.

    I really feel sorry for what Asians Americans have to go through everyday and it is outrageous that the country have choose to ignore and condone these despicable crimes. If the cops ain’t going to do anything about it, it is time to take matters in our own hands.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  138. @Bardon Kaldian

    Joseph Sobran is absolutely correct when he says “superiority excites envy“. I couldn’t agree more.

    [MORE]

    Was he talking about the superiority of the black male when left ALONE to pursue his talents that “excites envy”? Or, was he referring to something else?

  139. Antiwar7 says:
    @Ron Unz

    I think your reading of the evidence is too far on one side. If anything, it was attempted genocide. If the natives had nowhere to be pushed to, as in Tasmania, then they would have been exterminated.

    Native agriculture was widespread east of the Mississippi. There’s a very wide range of pre-contact population measures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

    After the US Civil War ended and freed up the US military, their standard tactic to pacify Indians was to attack a village in the winter, killing the old and sick who couldn’t get away, together with all of their animals, and, most importantly, their stored winter food. As a result, the survivors had to beg to be put on reservations, where the corrupt Indian agents starved them. You’re right: the Indian agents didn’t exterminate them to the last person, but this treatment was pretty extreme. Also, I suspect it was a lot more recent than whatever happened in China.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  140. @Rdm

    @Rdm
    Once again, we have intellectual dishonesty here. I say this because if the CIA/Deep State didn’t kill or facilitated in killing or the overthrow of the best Pan-African nationalist leaders who would’ve made a huge impact on development, I’m sure Africa would be at the same level as the best Asian Tigers.

    Let these names sink into your consciousness for a moment:
    Patrice Lumumba (Congo), Thomas Sankara (Burkina Faso), Amilcar Cabral (Guinea/Cape Verde), Tom Mboya (Kenya), Robert Ouko (Kenya), Agathe Uwilingiyimana (Rwanda, a moderate Hutu). And let’s not forget Africa’s greatest visionary, Ghana’s Kwame Nkrumah who was illegally overthrown by the CIA. Fact!

    I’m pretty sure Malcom X & Martin Luther King Jr. avoiding Deep State assassination would’ve better connected black America to black Africa.

    Here’s some food for thought:

    [MORE]

    In 1978 John Stockwell, former Chief of the Angola Task Force of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), wrote that agents at the CIA’s Accra station “maintained intimate contact with the plotters as a coup was hatched”. Afterward, “inside CIA headquarters the Accra station was given full, if unofficial credit for the eventual coup. …None of this was adequately reflected in the agency’s written records.” Later the same year, Seymour Hersh of The New York Times, citing “first hand intelligence sources,” defended Stockwell’s account, claiming that “many CIA operatives in Africa considered the agency’s role in the overthrow of Mr. Nkrumah to have been pivotal.”
    ….

    In 2000, he was voted African Man of the Millennium by listeners to the BBC World Service, being described by the BBC as a “Hero of Independence”, and an “International symbol of freedom as the leader of the first black African country to shake off the chains of colonial rule.”

    Nkrumah was also best-known politically for his strong commitment to and promotion of pan-Africanism. He was inspired by the writings of black intellectuals such as Marcus Garvey, W. E. B. Du Bois, and George Padmore, and his relationships with them. Much of his understanding and relationship to these men was created during his years in America as a student. Some would argue that his greatest inspiration was Marcus Garvey, although he also had a meaningful relationship with C. L. R. James. Nkrumah looked to these men to craft a general solution to the ills of Africa.

    In 1961, Nkrumah delivered a speech called “I Speak Of Freedom”. During this speech he talked about how “Africa could become one of the greatest forces for good in the world”. He mentions how Africa is a land of “vast riches” with mineral resources from that “range from gold and diamonds to uranium and petroleum”. Nkrumah says that the reason Africa isn’t thriving right now is because the European powers have been taking all the wealth for themselves. If Africa could be independent of European rule then it could truly flourish and contribute positively to the world.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Nkrumah

    As you can clearly SEE from the above foreign meddling, Africa would be much further along IF the exceptional freedom-luvin West would just leave her alone & offered genuine, pragmatic mutually beneficial FRIENDSHIP. But that was never the case since the objective has always been stealing resources & deliberately keeping the continent underdeveloped by sowing chaos, corrupting its leaders or other UN/NGO nonsense. Just like what is being done to Iran, Russia, Venezuela, Syria et al with sanctions.

    I’m sure if Africa had implemented China’s technocratic/communist/capitalist model, she would be able to avoid all the perils of corrupt Western democracy/meddling & develop in a positive manner. Big BIG mistake!

  141. @Craig Nelsen

    The Bolsheviks relied on Chinese and Latvian Jews to provide personal security to the top Bolsheviks, staff the mid to upper levels of the CheKa’s torture and execution chambers…

    Ya got a link for this bold historical claim about the Chinese & Bolsheviks collaborating? I’ve never seen any such article on Russia Insider, and they cover a lot of angles.

  142. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 Indigenous people remained, a sharp decline from the estimated 5 million to 15 million living in North America when Columbus arrived in 1492.

    This is my understanding of that piece of American history. To be sure, are you disputing the 96-99% population reduction of Native Indians during that period or are you arguing the culpability or role that the colonists played in that population decline ?

    I think those Amerind population figures are utterly and totally ridiculous, a legacy of the leftist anti-American lunacy of the late 1960s.

    For centuries, everyone has always acknowledged that the Amerind populations of Latin America, the Aztec and Incan Empires, were enormous, quite possibly 15-30 million or more, with huge cities and highly-developed civilizations, before something like 95% died of smallpox and other European diseases.

    However, North America was an entirely different story, with most of the numerous, small tribes being rather primitive. There were no cities of any kind, and although some of the tribes grew crops, many others were still at the hunter-gatherer stage of existence.

    Given the total lack of any cities or significant civilization, and with much of the population surviving by hunting and gathering, the gigantic population figures you quote seem utterly implausible. All the serious population-estimates of traditional scholars had put the total pre-contact Amerind population at something like 1 million, perhaps 2 million at the most. And just as in the case of the Latin American Amerinds, probably 90-95% died from smallpox and other new diseases.

    The only “genocide” that occurred was the one inflicted by European diseases, which centuries earlier had similarly exterminated enormous numbers of Europeans.

    I’m absolutely no expert in this topic, but the nonsense promoted by “politically correct” activists is so ridiculous that I don’t have to be.

  143. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    Thanks. This is a great compilation. I see Plenty of white perpetrators.

    Well, I spent about 5 minutes scrolling through that stupid HopClear Twitter feed, and saw almost nothing to support your hypothesis in the first 60-70 Tweets.

    Based upon the material, I think the HopClear fellow is probably some sort of “Woke” Asian, and “Woke” Asians almost always regard themselves as very junior partners to the vastly more powerful “Woke” blacks and their MSM allies.

    Therefore, they tend to do absolutely everything to conceal the fact that the overwhelming majority of anti-Asian violence is committed by blacks, whether for criminal or racial reasons. The whole situation has been going on for 30-40 years at least and is very well understood by anyone interested in racial/ethnic issues.

    Here’s a challenge. There are about 20 million Asians in living in America, and roughly one million total annual violent crimes, including homicides, rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults. How about if you find me TEN serious, violent attacks upon Asians by whites so far this year, preferably with some sort of racially-motivated indication. And please do exclude husbands beating wives or that sort of thing.

    If you can’t easily find TEN cases among 20 million Asians, I doubt the problem is really all that severe…

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Tor597
  144. Ron Unz says:
    @Antiwar7

    Native agriculture was widespread east of the Mississippi. There’s a very wide range of pre-contact population measures:

    Well, I lightly glanced through that Wikipedia page, and while the population figures for Latin American Amerinds seem somewhat plausible, the ones for North America seem based upon ideological nonsense.

    As I’ve already mentioned in a separate comment, many or even most of the numerous small Amerind tribes were still at the hunter-gatherer stage, none of them had developed civilizations (unlike the Aztecs and Incans), and none of them had cities.

    Do you really believe that Amerinds living at that stage of development could have numbered many, many millions, let alone 15 million(!!)?

    Here’s a useful datapoint. By 1830, the “Five Civilized Tribes” of the Southeast had adopted many European technologies and customs, and developed economically along white lines, allowing them to support a substantial population, and they occupied large portions of several states. But when they were forcibly removed under Andrew Jackson, they only numbered about 60,000:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

    Given such realities, do you really believe that the far more primitive hunter-gatherer Amerinds of 300 years earlier had actually numbered 15 million?

    • Replies: @Antiwar7
    , @Chinaman
  145. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    I guess this is a bit more complicated than just finding cases and this is more a question of Bayesian probabilities. We need to know the “base rate” for black on White crimes and black on Asian crime before we can make a statement on whether there is a discernible racial bias and whether some of these crimes are racially motivated and specifically target Asians. I don’t think any of the Asian commenters here is ignoring the fact that the majority of crimes in the US are committed by blacks but after adjusting for that baseline probability and also for crimes committed by whites, does blacks attack Asians more than they attack whites on a per capita basis and whether whites attack Asians more than they attack blacks? I know you have done studies on crimes in the past but not sure this is something you looked at. In the bigger scheme of things, you are probably right that it is not a big deal when juxtapose against a death toll of 300 k from COVID and a very high baseline crime rate in the US.

    These kind of shit rarely happens in Asia. Not even one case per 10 million people per annum. It would be big news. Given that there are very few blacks in Asia, the most likely perpetrator of an interracial crime in Asia will be White on Asian, thus my perspective on the matter. I have NEVER heard of a case where an Asian dude randomly assault a white dude, let alone a black dude. Pretty sure no matter how “woke” Asians Americans are, they are not stupid enough to try something suicidal like that.

  146. Ron Unz says:

    I don’t think any of the Asian commenters here is ignoring the fact that the majority of crimes in the US are committed by blacks…I know you have done studies on crimes in the past but not sure this is something you looked at.

    Well, I’ve never bothered looking into it because the historical pattern was so obvious and enormous. As a minor example, you may have noticed Steve Sailer’s recent column in which he noted that the official government statistics indicate that blacks violently attack Asians more than 275 times(!!) as often as the other way round:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/feds-in-2018-blacks-violently-victimized-asians-275-times-as-often-as-asians-violently-victimized-blacks/

    Like I said, I’ve always had a strong interest in racial/ethnic issues, and I pay attention to such things. Despite tremendous MSM attempts at obfuscation, the pattern of racially-motivated black attacks against Asians all across America has been enormous for many decades, stretching back at least to the 1970s. Usually, it’s only the most egregious or horrific incidents that manage to break through into the MSM where some people can hear about it.

    By contrast, I’ve almost never heard of anything similar involving white attacks against Asians, which the MSM would certainly magnify to gigantic proportions. For example, there was one single case of an Asian killed by white autoworkers in Detroit in the early 1980s that was talked about for decades and later made into a movie.

    In recent months, the MSM has been going 24-7 on the huge epidemic of innocent blacks killed by the police, and that’s an utter and complete hoax.

    For the last few years, rightwingers have been endlessly denouncing the huge epidemic of whites raped and murdered by Hispanic illegal immigrants, which is also an utter and complete hoax.

    And to the absolute best of my understanding, the claims that any significant number of Asians have been violently attacked by whites for racial reasons in America is also an utter and complex hoax. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please correct me.

    Incidentally, here’s a non-hoax that you might find interesting. For a year or two during the early 1970s, an organization of blacks began randomly murdering white men, women, and children throughout the state of California for racial reasons, with the total number of victims quite possibly being over 200. But the MSM covered it up so completely that virtually no one in America is today even aware it ever happened. You might want to take a look at my article from a few years ago on the subject:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-kkk-and-mass-racial-killings/

    If the MSM covered up the random racial murders of perhaps a couple of hundred white men, women, and children back then, do you really think it would cover up white racial attacks on Asians in today’s hair-trigger “anti-racist” society?

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
  147. @Ron Unz

    What’s your analysis of the current situation? Do you think voting fraud occurred? What do you think comes next?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  148. Antiwar7 says:
    @Ron Unz

    You wrote, “none of them had cities,” but there was this one:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia
    though it was in decline before Europeans reached it.

    You’re probably right that the high end population estimates in North America are not sustainable.

    I still think the Europeans in North America tried to remove all the natives. That involved exterminating them or just pushing them onto worthless land (at the time) that was difficult to live on. And some tribes, which one can think of as separate nations, were completely destroyed. I consider that genocide, or attempted genocide, but I can see that some people would disagree.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  149. Ron Unz says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    What’s your analysis of the current situation? Do you think voting fraud occurred? What do you think comes next?

    Well, since both candidates were so exceptionally awful, I didn’t really pay a great deal of attention to the campaign, but was a little surprised that Trump did so much better than most of the polls had suggested.

    Given that the MSM and Tech gatekeepers totally covered up the Hunter Biden scandal, it seems pretty obvious that Trump would have won if the story had been fairly covered, so there was clearly massive MSM/Tech “cheating” for Biden.

    But then again, Trump ran such an awful campaign, endlessly touting all his actions for blacks and Israel while mostly ignoring his own white base, that he actually lost a huge number of crucial white voters compared with 2016. So Trump also defeated himself.

    As for outright vote fraud, maybe but maybe not. I’ve seen lots of pretty suspicious indications in some of the crucial states described in the comment-threads here, but it’s sometimes difficult to separate real evidence of cheating from minor errors or confusion, and I haven’t been interested enough to bother looking into it carefully. Offhand, there seems to be a pretty good case for cheating in the vote count, but I also felt the same thing during Bush’s 2004 reelection.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  150. Ron Unz says:
    @Antiwar7

    You wrote, “none of them had cities,” but there was this one:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia
    though it was in decline before Europeans reached it

    Sure, I’m obviously aware of the urbanized Mound Builder culture, but the Wikipedia article indicates that their one “city” probably peaked at a population of 10K+ prior being abandoned hundreds of years before Columbus. (It’s almost always safe to use the lower-estimates of modern PC academics).

    If nobody has been able to locate the traces of any other “cities,” especially those in existence as late as 1500, I just don’t see how those claims of many, many millions of Amerinds make sense.

    Again, we have the fairly solid data of the Five Civilized Tribes having a total population of about 60,000 in 1830, and I suspect that pretty much represented the population density peak of the North American Amerinds. All the hunter-gatherer tribes probably had very low population densities.

    • Replies: @Antiwar7
  151. Antiwar7 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, having a small number of inhabitants to begin with doesn’t mean that genocide didn’t occur. But it does agree with your argument that there are many more descendants now. Further, “genocide” is such a loaded term, and many people disagree when it applies, so I’ll just concede.

    Thanks for engaging with me, and for producing your website, your content archives, and especially your own articles.

    • Thanks: Ron Unz
  152. Chinaman says:

    Usually, it’s only the most egregious or horrific incidents that manage to break through into the MSM where some people can hear about it.

    By contrast, I’ve almost never heard of anything similar involving white attacks against Asians,

    Not one case? I guess this case below is pretty egregious and pretty white but then how racially motivated is it? I saw this on SCMP a few years ago so may be the obfuscation works to the other way too.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1902222/arizona-woman-arrested-road-rage-murder-chinese-student-19-shot-her-car

    Then there are cases where it is not clear whether the perpetrators is white or a white Hispanic…one thing for sure…he is not Black. This is from Hopclear.

    https://hopclear.com/new-york-man-who-allegedly-attacked-three-members-of-an-asian-family-arrested/

    Then there are many cases where the racial profile of the perpetrator is not disclosed but is definitely white. No black English teacher from Canada in Taiwan. This is also from Hopclear. Perhaps this is why you didn’t find any White on Asian crime on Hopclear.

    https://hopclear.com/taiwanese-woman-allegedly-assaulted-by-canadian-man-in-taipei-over-dog/

    Then we have 400 verified cases of COVID racism in Australia. You will say it is small stuff like verbal abuses and spitting but there were violent assaults.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-20/coronavirus-hong-kong-student-assaulted-for-wearing-face-mask/12075470

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/almost-400-anti-china-attacks-since-pandemic-began-20200607-p550a8.html

    Pretty sure all White On Asians since, as Tor said, it is not Tasmania aborigines, now extinct ( that’s a genocide), who are committing these crimes. May be that’s not your concern since it didn’t happen in America but it would be preposterous to say White on Asian crimes ( whereever it occurs) are a hoax.

    Are Australian Whites more feral and violent than Whites in America? I doubt it.

    We all see what we want to see and confirmation bias is unavoidable. Black on white crimes are probably 3 orders of magnitude more likely than white on Asian crime which is why it gets drowned out by all the noise about black crimes in America.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  153. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Given such realities, do you really believe that the far more primitive hunter-gatherer Amerinds of 300 years earlier had actually numbered 15 million?

    I got the 15 million number on here. I have no way of ascertaining its veracity and honestly, the population numbers are irrelevant to our discussion.

    https://www.history.com/news/native-americans-genocide-united-states
    http://www.beacon.org/An-Indigenous-Peoples-History-of-the-United-States-P1164.aspx

    Giving away smallpox blankets for the stated purpose to reducing the population of another race is, by definition, a genocide.

    https://www.history.com/news/colonists-native-americans-smallpox-blankets

    The test of a Genocide is the actions taken and the intention of these actions *not its outcome* both tests are fulfilled in this case. Let’s assume you are right on the population number, then I am glad the colonisers FAILED dismally in their genocide campaigns.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

    It is still a genocide whether 500 are killed or 15 million are killed. I knew we will get into semantics sooner or later…

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  154. Rdm says:
    @Ron Unz

    There’s always cheating in votes counting unless it’s strictly electronic and the said electronics shouldn’t be tampered with.

    It’s not about pro-Biden or pro-Trump or “been blue thru and thru” or “always red” camp. It’s about statistics and how it manipulates people’s mind.

    To give you an example without deep diving into damn lie statistics, here’s a simple observation we can make. In any independent observations, central limit theorem (CLT) dictates that everything comes to the middle and generate a normal distribution. This is independent observation and normal distribution.

    Now let’s imagine you go and ask people on the streets if they like Blue color, either “Yes” or “No” answer, you’re most likely to get some interesting data. The data would be definitely skewed because either you’d get way more than 50% or way less than 50%. There won’t be any situation like almost 50.9% of people like blue or 49.1% of people answer “No” to Blue color preference. That’s uncanny and CLT dictates that that’s not independent observations. That’s because Color Preference is not normally distributed. It’s not natural. It’s personal preference.

    Let’s look at the voting now.

    [MORE]

    California (Biden won)
    Biden : 8,098,039 (65.5%)
    Trump: 4,085,899 (37.8%)
    count difference: 4,012,140 out of 12.1 million counts
    That’s 33.4% degree of freedom.

    Texas (Trump won)
    Biden: 5,211,603 (46.4%)
    Trump : 5,860,494 (52.2%)
    count difference: 648,891 out of 11 million counts
    That’s 5.9% degree of freedom.

    In any situation, if the degree of freedom is less than 1%, it’s not independent observation. There’s some restrictions and controlled samples.

    Tuesday nights, Trump was bound to sweep over easily. Biden desperately need additional two states to meet 270 electoral votes. He was left with only swing states. Even PA was not in dem’s favor anymore. It was 400,000 vote count difference in PA on Tuesday night. Dem couldn’t manipulate PA as subtle as they can. Of course counting is done by an independent body but everything is string attached.

    So Dem needs to look out for other swing states that they can slowly and subtly drop any supposedly Trump ballots as “illegitimate” by giving any excuses like incomplete form, missing last name, etc. They can also do so for Biden as well. But as we see, some swing states are purposely left counting so that the counting body can see the situation completely and can swing the counting methods.

    Next day, Biden won Wisconson, followed by Michigan.

    Wisconsin (Biden won)
    Biden : 1,630,542 (49.6%)
    Trump: 1,609,734 (48.9%)
    count difference: 20,808 out of ~3.2 millions votes.
    That’s 0.65% degree of freedom for 3.2 million votes.

    Georgia (In progress 99%)
    Biden : 2,443,364 (49.3%)
    Trump: 2,446,850 (49.4%)
    count difference = 3,486 out of 5 millions votes
    That’s 0.069% degree of freedom (or margin of error if you wish) for 5 million votes.

    the degree of freedom in Georgia is so low that you can easily see how it’s controlled sampling, rather than independent sampling. It’s like you go out and ask 100 people if they like banana. It’s not like 50 people like banana and 50 people don’t like banana. It’s not possible with 0.069% degree of freedom to make up for 100 people answer to banana.

    Whenever there’s less than 1% of degree of freedom from the entire samples, it’s controlled sampling.

  155. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    Look, upthread I emphasized that there are 20 million Asians in America and a million annual violent crimes—rapes, robberies, homicides, and aggravated assaults. Given those numbers, it would be totally implausible that not a single Asian has ever been violently attacked by a white person.

    However, I argued that the numbers were entirely insignificant, and challenged you to find just TEN examples so far this year (out of a MILLION violent crimes). Now I’m absolutely sure that the true number is far, far higher than TEN (out of a MILLION). But if you can’t at least find TEN, preferably with some indication of a racial motive, I doubt the problem is really all that serious.

    And so far, you’ve found ZERO in 2020.

    You found the case of some crazy white woman in Arizona who shot and killed a Chinese guy in 2016 after a minor traffic accident, and you found the very recent case of a deranged homeless Hispanic guy who beat up a Chinese guy who had yelled at him to stop smoking on the NYC subway. But America is filled with lots of crazy people, many of them homeless, who attack or even shoot other people for all sorts of strange reasons. After all, we have something like 15,000 homicides each year. And that’s one reason that most Americans don’t yell at homeless people to stop smoking on the NYC Subway—it might sometimes be dangerous!

    Presumably, you browsed through various sources, and the only white-on-Asian homicide you could find occurred back in 2016 with that crazy woman in Arizona. That suggests to me that they’re not especially common.

    It’s all a matter of probabilities. For example, middle-aged Asian women have about the lowest violent crime rates in America. But here in Palo Alto, the only homicide in the last few years involved a middle-aged Chinese woman who killed her (Chinese) sister-in-law. Does that mean I should feel fearful when I notice a middle-aged Chinese woman walking behind me late at night? Probably not…

    Otherwise, you came up with the case of some Canadian guy in Taiwan who attacked a local woman in an argument over his dog, but it’s not at all clear to me there was any racial motive involved.

    You also pointed me to a newspaper article claiming that there have been 386 “racist incidents” involving Asian people in Australia, including “abuse, physical intimidation and spitting,” though it’s not at all clear how many of these involve physical violence rather than e.g. mere insults.

    Now I don’t claim any great expertise in Australian society and since I don’t follow the news there, I haven’t a clue whether there’s a serious pattern of anti-Asian attacks. But if so, it wouldn’t particularly surprise me. Throughout most of its history, Australia had entirely banned non-white immigration, and I think until about thirty years ago, almost no Asians lived there. But extremely high subsequent Asian immigration has now made its two largest cities about 1/4 Asian. That’s an extraordinary rate of demographic change and might surely lead to friction with the local white population, especially if the Asian immigrants are disproportionately affluent and well-educated. And certainly, the recent anti-Chinese propaganda of the Western MSM might tend to trigger such reactions:

    https://www.qt.com.au/news/sydney-now-more-asian-european-says-census/3194397/

    But suppose Hong Kong suddenly experienced such a massive wave of Lebanese immigration that over just a couple of decades, it became 1/4 Lebanese. Wouldn’t you expect quite a lot of friction between the native Hong Kongers and the Lebanese? Hasn’t there even been a certain amount of friction between the native Hong Kongers and the Mainland Chinese who’ve moved there since 1997?

    As I’ve said, I claim absolutely no expertise on Australian race relations, and I try to avoid commenting on subjects about which I am ignorant. However, I do think I have an *extremely* good understanding of American racial issues. I’ve challenged you to find just TEN cases this year of white physical attacks on Asians in America, preferably with some indication of a racial motive, and so far you’ve found ZERO.

    Perhaps I’m entirely mistaken, but my impression is that you are someone who only very rarely focused on racial/ethnic issues in the past, and encountering this website in which such “highly controversial” topics are very freely discussed, often quite irresponsibly by agitated commenters, may have been a new and shocking experience for you. It’s unfortunate though hardly surprising that you might temporarily react by becoming a little “racially radicalized” as a consequence. However, I’ve been very interested in these sorts of issues for 40, 45 years, and I think I have a very solid and settled understanding of in this area.

    Maybe I’m entirely wrong and there’s a great deal white anti-Asian racial violence in America. But I’d really have to see some evidence for that.

  156. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    I got the 15 million number on here. I have no way of ascertaining its veracity and honestly, the population numbers are irrelevant to our discussion.

    Look, you’re a foreigner and you shouldn’t be expected to really know all that much about American history or the tremendous peculiarities of America’s current society and its academic/media worlds. But here’s a piece of important advice: you shouldn’t necessarily believe everything you read on the Internet.

    As you know, over the last few months groups of agitated radicals have been burning down parts of many American cities and tearing down the statues and monuments of many of our most famous presidents and other national heroes. That’s a pretty “odd” thing to happen in a normal country, and should give you an important clue that America isn’t really a “normal” country these days. Those very silly articles you found on the Internet describing the “genocide” of the “15 million” Amerinds who had been living here are closely connected in ideological terms with all the attacks on those statues.

    Ironically enough, I suspect that if you talked to most of those people, they’d be equally convinced about the “horrific ongoing genocide” of the Uyghurs in China, with the unspeakable PRC government planning to exterminate them all them in death camps. So instead of worrying about America’s “genocide” of the 19th century, maybe you should focus on the ongoing Chinese “genocide” of the 21st century.

    In the past, you’ve struck me as a reasonably rational fellow, but you really seem to have gone off the deep end recently, perhaps because you’ve gotten interested in subjects in which you clearly have absolutely no expertise or background, and therefore gullibly believe (and extrapolate) whatever nonsense you happen to find on the Internet. That’s perfectly fine, but you’re just making yourself look totally ridiculous.

    Take that silly smallpox story you cited. As far as I know, the only example in the historical record occurred 250 years ago, which was prior to the creation of the United States and during a war between the British and the local Indians. Indeed, it was before anyone had any scientific knowledge of how smallpox spread. Anyway, use of disease-weapons during wartime had been pretty common throughout all past wars for thousands of years, especially in the case of besieged cities, when it was often quite effective.

    Frankly, if you’re talking “genocidal” behavior, I’ve seen claims that 60-70 million Chinese died in the Taiping Rebellion only about 150 years ago. And I have the vague impression that there were near-genocidal massacres of various Northern nomad tribes during the various border-wars with China over the last thousand years or so. Weren’t enormous numbers of Mongols massacred after the Ming Chinese finally overthrew the foreign Yuan Dynasty? My knowledge of Chinese history is so spotty, I might be entirely wrong about some of these things, but I think your own knowledge of American history is equally lacking.

    The bottom line is that very few Amerinds lived in North America, often as hunter-gatherers, and of those, the bulk died of European diseases, in many cases perhaps even before whites arrived in North America. The small number of surviving Amerinds occasionally fought very small scale wars or skirmishes with white Americans for about 150 years, until most of them were eventually swamped and absorbed into the vastly larger white population. Doesn’t the DNA of Southern Chinese suggest that something similar happened during the Han expansion of the last couple of thousand years?

    I assume you’re aware that the Randolphs, perhaps the proudest and most elite white Virginia family, directly traces its ancestry to a famous Indian woman…

    • Agree: Philip Owen
    • Replies: @Rdm
    , @Chinaman
  157. GammaRay says:

    serious question, are whites currently being genocided right now in the US? If the brutal treatment that the native-americans received from european colonists couldnt be considered genocide then neither can the current extremely mild treatment that whites are experiencing right now be considered genocide either. White nationalists love to proclaim how there was no native-american genocide but then will turn around and cry about how white-americans are being genocided LOL. It just makes white nationalists look looney when they deny a native-american genocide but in the same breath claim that white-americans are being “genocided”.

    Personally I always thought the term “white genocide” was a poor choice of words since the reality of white genocide is much more prosaic compared to the images that we usually associate with the word genocide; as a result of this mismatch between bombastic terminology and mundane reality, I think it tends to turn lots of “normie” whites away. Anyways, im just ranting a little bit. Although I am curious what your take on this is, to my knowledge I dont recall you specifically acknowledging whether or not “white genocide” actually constitutes genocide or not. I know how white nationalists feel about this issue (along with their aforementioned hypocrisy when it comes to the native americans’ treatment by the european colonists), but what about you?

    • Replies: @Rdm
  158. Rdm says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron,

    Give Chinaman some slack because your webzine is really an eye-opener for newbies. It’d take some time to absorb all information. It also takes time to weed out some commenters here if they’re spewing out nonsense or real insights.

    Eg, I found Prissy occasionally informational, but oftentimes loaded with how real life depends on Hollywood mumbo jumbo.
    I forgot whose name, John the White, a proud White who likes to thump his chest, regale Shakespeare prose every now and then.
    There’s also Panda the China, whose mind is still trapped in 12 years old, often giggling like a geisha.

    Of course, I also made silly comments sometimes just to vent my stuff out.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  159. Rdm says:
    @GammaRay

    I can tell from my experience that definition of “Whites” is dynamic and fluid, depending on the environment and social status.

    Before Irish immigration, Whites were typically referred to Nordic Whites, especially Anglo Whites and Franco Whites. Irish were considered as illiterate potato junkies. They were put together with Chinese in building transcontinental roads. Even Italians were not considered as “pure Whites”, let alone “Jews”.

    If the connotation of “Whites” from pre-CEA were used today, yes, Whites are dwindling.

    After Chinese Exclusion Act was terminated, definition of “Whites” slowly changed. Most Jews were already mixed with European descendants or some of the Jews were just on paper Jews, but physically and mentally were Whites in a sense that they were European Anglo Whites.

    For convenience, it’s easier to divide between Caucasoid and Occidental physical features when you have many races. Of course some Asians would have some Caucasoid features or some Westerners will look like Asians in some physical sense after many trading ports were normalized between China and Europe in 15th century.

    Coming back to Whites, due to a massive mixture of Anglo-Franco Whites and all other minor European countries, definition of “Whites” changes over time.

    Even the US census changed the definition of “Whites” in 1997, including Middle Eastern, Northern Africa.

    https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html

    If this is the case, Bin Laden terrorist attack on World Trade Center was not supposed to be a terror attack. It should be deemed as a civil war between White people.

    But apparently not, it’s Middle Eastern terrorist, not White terrorist.

    Even some European White people are constantly looking out for whether all those Whites are really Whites or just a mixture of Whites (Europe, Middle East, northern Africa, Jews, etc).

    So if you expand the definition of “Whites” more inclusively, Whites won’t be dwindling.

    But European Nordic Whites? Yes they are.

    https://abc7news.com/lisa-alexander-san-francisco-james-juanillo-black-lives-matter/6247494/

    Look at her. Does she look like a European White?

    Her eyes shape is more almond than those Asian women eyes shape.

    But the news sell with “White woman”

    Look at John Oliver, supposedly British White.

    https://www.justwatch.com/ca/tv-show/last-week-tonight-with-john-oliver

    Does he look like a European White guy that you have in mind?

    Dark hair, strong eyebrows, what comes to mind?

    But race sells.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  160. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    I did immediately noticed the change of tone in your reply and I sense exasperation and indignation. Not sure whether that’s due to my impertinence as a foreigner or the perceived ignorance of my understanding of those events. I want to say that I didn’t write this history or make this shit up. I just read it (not only on the internet) and there is an army of history\liberal professors who will challenge your interpretation and stand ready to lynch you for denying it. I didn’t call it a genocide. Some very respectable people did. I also believe the notion of genocide is also held by the descendant of Native Indians if only to get on that affirmative action gravy train. If I am not wrong, I believe your interpretation of the events belong to a fringe minority in the “woke” world today. That’s not my fault.

    In any case, it is indeed shocking, to say the least, that there is such a large chasm between our understanding on the matter.

    I didn’t just google something about Native Indians and then proclaim genocide. The genocide of Native Indians is pretty much the long-held consensus in all the Asian countries and if you sample 20 million Chinaman, perhaps only TEN will say it is NOT a genocide. That’s what we were taught and I hear this reiterated by respected Chinese scholars (and white scholars) all the time and have read about this in many books\commentary. (Chinese or English) It is like the Holocust – people accept this unquestionably- You are right that it COULD be something like the “genocide” of the Uighur Muslims which is REALLY a hoax.

    I guess it is pointless to argue about whether those events constitute a genocide since I don’t want to antagonize you for something which we can never agree upon. Admittedly, you have a much better grasp of American history than I do. You are also right that Chinese and all races have engaged in similar behavior in the past. I am not going to deny anything and by the agreed definition, all the examples you cited are indeed genocides. I should make every effort not to go down that slippery slope of hypocrisy and sanctimony which I often accused WN of. I said, “Genocide is in their DNA” and I still stand by that statement. However, It should be more inclusive and include me so “Genocide is in our DNA”.

    The most unspeakable questions in human evolution are

    “Where are the archaic human species?”
    “What happened to all the Homo Erectus and Neanthedals?”

    The answer is, of course, that they have gone extinct because of the direct\indirect genocidal actions taken by Homo Sapiens and we have plenty of evidence for cannibalism\violence from the caves that early Homo Sapiens dwelled in. We are all naturally endowed with “genocidal tendencies” which have given us a survival edge in the past. For me, genocide not a “loaded” “woke” term, it is evolutionary psychology and supported by science. To deny this is to deny our humanity. There is nothing to justified and it would be intellectually dishonest to try to spin a different narrative. It is just the way it is.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  161. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    I didn’t just google something about Native Indians and then proclaim genocide. The genocide of Native Indians is pretty much the long-held consensus in all the Asian countries and if you sample 20 million Chinaman, perhaps only TEN will say it is NOT a genocide. That’s what we were taught and I hear this reiterated by respected Chinese scholars (and white scholars) all the time

    Well, I’d never been aware that the “Great Amerind Genocide” is so widely assumed and accepted in China and other Asian countries, but if that’s indeed the case, I guess I certainly can’t blame you for believing such total nonsense.

    As far as I know, the whole thing began in the late 1960s, when various radical elements began gaining control of portions of many American academic institutions. Since they had seething hatred for traditional American society and history, they began promoting every sort of attack against it, notably including the Amerind issue. For decades, many of their ideological projects received relatively little attention in the broader society, but via the college courses and public school textbooks, they have gradually indoctrinated portions of later generations, and now mobs of agitated people are burning down our cities and tearing down our statues. Lots of them are also now into the “transgender” craziness and every other sort of nuttery.

    Since the Communist Party of China was obviously hostile to the US in the late 1960s, it makes perfect sense that they would have promoted it, and it might gradually have developed a momentum of its own. Obviously, lots of other Asian countries are resentful of America for all sorts of different reasons, and they would have promoted it as well.

    I don’t watch TV, but I assume that FoxNews and various other outlets are always promoting the Falun Gong anti-PRC nonsense, so I’d assume that huge numbers of Americans believe it. And nearly our entire MSM has been recently promoting the whole “Uyghur Concentration Camps” story, which I suspect has been wildly exaggerated.

    I think very few ordinary Americans are aware of the “Amerind Genocide” story, or at least I’ve almost never seen it discussed in the MSM or in ordinary conversations, though I assume it’s a big deal in Ethnic Studies departments. So I’d naturally assumed it was just as obscure in the rest of the world, but apparently not.

    The whole Amerind nonsense got started around the same time that other activists began promoting the notion that Black Africans had created world civilization, which was then stolen by the nasty Greeks and other white Europeans. I think Lots of blacks in America today believe that, but almost nobody else. Is that theory also widespread in Asia?

  162. Chinaman says:

    Frankly, if you’re talking “genocidal” behavior, I’ve seen claims that 60-70 million Chinese died in the Taiping Rebellion only about 150 years ago. And I have the vague impression that there were near-genocidal massacres of various Northern nomad tribes during the various border-wars with China over the last thousand years or so. Weren’t enormous numbers of Mongols massacred after the Ming Chinese finally overthrew the foreign Yuan Dynasty? My knowledge of Chinese history is so spotty, I might be entirely wrong about some of these things, but I think your own knowledge of American history is equally lacking.

    The bottom line is that very few Amerinds lived in North America, often as hunter-gatherers, and of those, the bulk died of European diseases, in many cases perhaps even before whites arrived in North America. The small number of surviving Amerinds occasionally fought very small scale wars or skirmishes with white Americans

    We can also add Rwanda, pol pot and the Holocaust to that list…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

    What does the universibility and recalcitrance of this behavior across space and time tell us? Is there something that is deeply ingrained in all of us? We can use an euphemism like “racial friction” to describe these behaviors and I hope we agree that whenever 2 genetically distinct populations come together, there will be some “friction”. (as in your own Australian example) Going back to racially motivated crimes, can we categories these crimes as a subset on the spectrum of racial friction? When survival is not at stake, then maybe it is isolated incidents like spitting and verbal abuse. When survival resources are at stake, then maybe skirmishes and small scale wars between populations (or internment camps). When the going gets tough and you reach critical mass, then these behavioral tendencies might manifest itself… as a genocide?

    Frankly, I am not interested in specific cases or the frequency of these cases. You are the expert on that. Let’s say I only manage to find NINE cases of White on Asian crime in 200 years, what does it prove and what can we summarize from that?? Does it prove that America is an egalitarian, post-racial society…at least when it comes to Asians? I contend that unless we understand the psychology and BIOLOGY behind these behavior tendencies, these things will keep happening forever, whether it is Black on White or White on Asian. I think your friend Steve Hsu will agree with that assessment. I am just trying to analyze it from a dispassionate scientific\empircial point of view and to get to some kind of “general theory of racial relations”. I know there a lot of real scientists are looking at that kind of stuff too. A systematic review of your database of racially motivated incidents could probably shed light on that understanding.

  163. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Just so to prove that I am not making this up about widespread acceptance of the genocide of Native Indians in China. Here’s a list of youtube videos on the subject:

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%E5%8D%B0%E7%AC%AC%E5%AE%89%E4%BA%BA%E5%A4%A7%E7%81%AD%E7%BB%9D

    This is a very respected professor from one of top university in China talking about the genocide of Native Indians. What is unique here is that he went and lived with the American Indians for some time…

    https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1h5411h7LF/?spm_id_from=333.788.videocard.2

    Here’s the spokeswomen for the foreign ministry of China using the term “genocide of Native Indians” in a official press conference!

    I am actually quite surprised you are not aware how this is perceived overseas.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    , @Ron Unz
  164. @Chinaman

    Perhaps you will enjoy the following article (it is profusely commented too):

    Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide?
    by Guenter Lewy
    https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302

    It seemed quite well-researched and well-argued to me, upon a quick glance. There is also a link to an opposing view, by one Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz (I haven’t looked at it).

    • Thanks: Ron Unz
  165. @Ron Unz

    The notion of Europeans commiting genocide against the native Americans and stealing their land is quite popular these days, I would say most young people are aware of this. Perhaps you have heard of the refrain used by pro-multiculturalists of how Whites have no right to be dictating who can come and settle in America as Whites are “living on stolen land”?

    Although you are fairly old in age so I doubt this anti-White conditioning was in play when you were in school/university.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  166. @Tor597

    Who do you think is assaulting Asians in Australia? The aboriginals?

    Are you aware of the existence of non-aboriginal nonwhites? You do realise Australia has a huge problem with Sudanese and Arab gangs? Whites generally do not engage in racist attacks, that era of Romper Stomper style gangs is over, nowadays it is mostly blacks and Muslims that are uplift and assault Whites and Asians.

    But I don’t take you very seriously anyways. You are either a weeb lapping as Asian, or you are very young and you got a lot of disappointment ahead of you when you realize that white people will never accept you as an equal.

    He is a 5th generation Asian American and fully assimilated into America, the same cannot said about you whose racial consciousness and subsequent hatred of Whitey still rages within your soul.

    Every single Asian in America who ancestors arrived after 1965 is either a parasite or a foreign agent, and needs to get booted out of America if America is to survive. In many ways the Asians are even more dangerous than the blacks as the Asians are cunning and have a long term plan to destroy Whites, while the blacks are just animalistic and most of their actions are very “in the moment”

    Also, why do you lament Whites not accepting you as equals? Do you ever see Whites complaining about Japanese or Chinese not accepting them as equals in Japan and China respectively? You seem like a very confused Asian, with internalised White supremacy and a desire to gain acceptance into an alien race.

    • Troll: d dan
  167. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’d never been aware that the “Great Amerind Genocide” is so widely assumed and accepted in China and other Asian countries, but if that’s indeed the case, I guess I certainly can’t blame you for believing such total nonsense.

    You make it seem like I am brainwashed by the CCP. I am not. My review of the facts and in comparison to the hundreds of other cases of what is now considered genocides lead me to that conclusion.

    Genocide of Native Indians is the consensus view in most of the non-white world (and increasingly, in western societies). Most of non-whites under 40 would consider your interpretation “total nonsense” and on the order of Holocaust denial in today’s world. You would be in jail for denying it as a genocide if Native Indians have an ounce of the influence\power that Jews have in the world.

    Perception is reality.

    Even if we just look at the objective facts, it is still a genocide, under the UN definition of what is a genocide. At the end, we are arguing semantics and terminologies here. You call racial friction what others call Genocide. This is a very new term invented at the end of WW2. However, I think everyone agrees that some of these killings are racially motivated. Genocide will be how it will be recorded in the history books from this generation, whether you like it or not.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#United_States

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @anon
  168. Yevardian says:
    @The Spirit of Enoch Powell

    If my add to this, this ‘native genocide’ talk has recently become very popular in Australia as well, which has likewise been propped up by wildly high new estimations of the pre-contact Aboriginal population. A few years back, a book (Dark Emu) by a certain Bruce Pascoe arguing evidence for widespread Aboriginal agriculture, which predictably sold extremely well for an academic work, generating much media publicity. Of course, unlike Northern Amerindians (Sequoyah’s alphabet, the Cherokee constitution, Iroquois gunsmithing etc.) , Aboriginal Australians showed practically no ability to adopt modern technology or institutions whatsoever, unsurprising given Amerindians are around the world average for IQ, whilst Aboriginals are generally estimated to have the lowest measures on the planet.
    His claims were, apparently, quickly rebuffed by another academic, Keith Windshuttle, but naturally, his name remains obscure outside of a few specialist publications. Although he also edits a neoconservative/libertarian bimonthly, ‘Quadrant’ (although its cultural/literary sections can be good), so I don’t have much sympathy for him either.

  169. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    This is a very respected professor from one of top university in China talking about the genocide of Native Indians…I am actually quite surprised you are not aware how this is perceived overseas.

    Well, I’ve certainly had an interest in Chinese history over the years, but I’ve never tried to investigate what sort of American history is taught in Chinese universities. It wouldn’t particularly surprise me if they might sometimes have a very distorted view, especially since I think academic departments mostly needed to be recreated from a low base after they suffered so badly under the Cultural Revolution.

  170. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    You make it seem like I am brainwashed by the CCP. I am not. My review of the facts and in comparison to the hundreds of other cases of what is now considered genocides lead me to that conclusion…Even if we just look at the objective facts, it is still a genocide, under the UN definition of what is a genocide. At the end, we are arguing semantics and terminologies here. You call racial friction what others call Genocide. This is a very new term invented at the end of WW2.

    Exactly. An entirely new crime called “Genocide” was invented at the end of WW2, defined in a particularly stupid and ridiculous sort of way. The definition you linked reads in part:

    any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

    Thus, causing “serious mental harm” to a group—even without any physical injury—constitutes “Genocide.” Under this really stupid definition the number of “Genocides” around the world has surely been absolutely enormous, probably numbering thousands or even tens of thousands just in the last century. Basically calling people a nasty name or producing a movie or TV show that makes fun of them now arguably constitutes “Genocide.” That’s why the WNs are always claiming they’re being “Genocided” in America. According to the UN, they ARE being “Genocided” by the mass-media.

    In fact, under that really stupid UN definition, you could probably make a case that the PRC is currently “Genociding” the Uyghurs by inflicting “mental harm” on them. After all, “mental harm” is a pretty subjective thing, and if some Uyghurs don’t like the PRC policy, they can claim they’re being “mentally harmed” and who can say otherwise? So instead of worrying about the “Genocide” of the Amerinds 150 years ago, you should be focusing on the current Chinese “Genocide” of the Uyghurs.

    Most of non-whites under 40 would consider your interpretation “total nonsense” and on the order of Holocaust denial in today’s world. You would be in jail for denying it as a genocide if Native Indians have an ounce of the influence\power that Jews have in the world.

    Well, sure. People can believe lots of ridiculous things, especially under heavy brainwashing. For example, lots of the younger people in the West apparently believe that there are 17 different genders or something like that. But just because lots of foolish people believe something doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. For example, during Mao’s Great Leap Forward, lots of people believed in something that didn’t work, and maybe 35 million of them died as a consequence.

    As for the Jewish Holocaust that started the whole nonsense going, one reason thousands of people have been imprisoned for “Holocaust denial” over the years is because there’s actually very strong evidence that the whole thing was mostly just a hoax invented by Jewish activists and never actually happened. So the only way the hoax can be kept going is by putting in prison anyone who questions it. As you probably know, I pointed this out in a long article a couple of years ago:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

    You seem to be getting very “woke” recently. Given the UN Genocide definition, maybe you should start organizing a campaign to save the poor Uyghurs from the “Genocidal mental harm” they’ve recently been suffering…

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  171. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chinaman

    Not about genocide. But give yourself a chance to listen to the podcast about Matt Pottinger if you want to understand a little bit of the current insane policy toward China and Chinese Americans.

    https://silknsteel.podbean.com/e/silk-and-steel-podcast-ep95-the-man-behind-war-on-china-real-chinese-influence-in-us-election/

  172. GammaRay says:
    @Rdm

    So if you expand the definition of “Whites” more inclusively, Whites won’t be dwindling.

    But European Nordic Whites? Yes they are.

    just because european nordic whites are dwindling doesnt make it a genocide. Is it a genocide if whites choose not to have children? Nobody is forcing whites at gunpoint to either delay child rearing, only have a single child, or have mixed children with a non-white person. In fact, I think whites (especially white guys) would be very angry and indignant if someone were to try to tell them that they dont have the right to race-mix with non-white women. How damning is that? Or what if there was some group that tried to outlaw birth control and mandate that white women have 5+ kids each? or what about just 3+ kids? hell what if they just tried to outlaw birth control and didnt mandate having kids at all? Could you still imagine the absolute shit show that would follow? Isnt it funny that according to white nationalists the native americans actually increased their absolute population size despite actively hostile mass immigration to north america yet for some reason whites can’t do the same in spite of facing mostly neutral or benign mass immigration?

    Whites are ironically the biggest cause of “white genocide”, its absurd to deny that native americans were genocided while simultaneously claiming that whites are being genocided. It just defies all common sense. The truth that white nationalists dont want to admit is that white americans have become decadent. There have always been “bad” whites and the potential for decadency has always existed in whites (like every other race). White nationalists like to pretend that whites have always been milquetoast and conservative like leave it to beaver or andy griffith but if you just look at history you can see that whites are a lot more rowdy than white nationalists would have you believe. The problem with white nationalists is that they operate on false notions (delusions) from the very get go, as a result they are forever chasing a kind of “white purity” that never really existed in the first place. White nationalists would be much better equipped to achieve their goals if they were able to objectively understand what whites are really like, but as it is white nationalists always come across as tone-deaf because they’re constantly trying to appeal to this imaginary, projected image of whiteness instead of the whiteness that actually exists.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  173. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    You seem to be getting very “woke” recently. Given the UN Genocide definition, maybe you should start organizing a campaign to save the poor Uyghurs from the “Genocidal mental harm” they’ve recently been suffering…

    I guess we both said everything that we want to say on the matter.

    Genocide might be a loaded “woke” term for you but I use it in a very different context. I am surprised you would get worked up on a terminology. It is impossible to find a common ground if we can’t even agree on a working definition which is satisfactory to both of us. You think the UN definition is ridiculous. I also think it is outrageous if it included Uyghur’s mental suffering… Not even a single Uyghur died in this “genocidal” procees…We can whine and ridicule but we are not important enough to decide what these word means.

    I said “Genocide is in our DNA” so I use the term in a scientific context which involved the instinctual desire to systematically exterminate another race. ( if it can proven there is such a thing) so Holocaust and the Mongolian invasion of Song would be genocide in my book. It have nothing to do with being woke.

    If the Holocaust is not genocide, then what about Pol pot or Rwanda? Are those REAL genocide s or are they hoaxes too? My last question to you is what is a genocide to you? Or do you believe there is no such thing in which 2 genetically distinct population try to systematically eliminate the other?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  174. Rdm says:
    @GammaRay

    You and I have a similar line of thinking in terms of “White genocide”. I second your observation that just because Nordic Whites are dwindling doesn’t mean it’s undergoing proactive genocidal attempt by foreign forces.

    As I said earlier in this post, Whites are becoming butt of the joke and some of them can’t see themselves yet. When I said “Whites”, it includes all people who are unwittingly or intentionally considering themselves as Whites. Some are being played as pawns in this WN movement. The frontlines are Mulatto, Middle Easterners with fair skins.

    White nationalists would be much better equipped to achieve their goals if they were able to objectively understand what whites are really like, but as it is white nationalists always come across as tone-deaf because they’re constantly trying to appeal to this imaginary, projected image of whiteness instead of the whiteness that actually exists.

    I couldn’t agree more.

    What I’ve been observing lately is that European Whites or Nordic Whites are dwindling at fast rate. But they’re clinging onto the notion of “Whites” by recruiting those Middle Eastern people with fair skin. So to define what is really “Whites” will defeat the very purpose of “WN” movement because they don’t have any substantial mass to rally around to begin with. All they have is some White trash, redneck and White wannabe Middle Easterners.

    So in order for WN to strictly define what constitutes “Whites” will destroy the very dream even before they imagine, i.e., Nordic or Germanic Whites because it’s unachievable.

    You’d see occasionally here in Unz when some authors show a White girl assaulted by Blacks and all you’d see is a Mulatto girl with a fair skin. That’s how much WN are clinging onto any piece of Whitish looking person attacked by Blacks.

    And they’re the ones lusting over Asian women.
    And they’re the ones pointing fingers at Asian men to not to be fully Americans.

    As a matter of fact, Asian men never asked Asian women to marry non-Asian men.

    In this global matter of evolution, WNs are genetically killing themselves by going for Asian women themselves and pointing fingers at all other races by chanting “White lives matter too!!!”

    Objectively speaking, that’s why I see Jews as a powerbroker in this 21st century.

  175. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    Genocide might be a loaded “woke” term for you but I use it in a very different context…You think the UN definition is ridiculous. I also think it is outrageous if it included Uyghur’s mental suffering…

    I entirely agree with you, but don’t forget that *you* were the one who cited the ridiculous UN definition of “Genocide,” which explicitly states that “inflicting serious mental harm” can be a form of “Genocide” even if not a single victim is killed or physically injured. Did you actually *read* the UN definition you were citing, or merely Google it?

    Each of us has areas of personal expertise, which sometimes take many years of considerable effort to acquire. I think you’ve said that you are a financial investment manager living in Hong Kong, but who had previously spent some years living and working in the US.

    I’m sure that you know a vast number of things that I do not, and if I were to suddenly begin propounding my ideas for the most effective ways of hedging the RMB/dollar exchange rate, I suspect I would look very foolish, which is why I do not do that.

    Upthread, another commenter pointed to a 6,400 word historical analysis of the alleged “Amerind Genocide” by an university academic that seemed very solid to me, usefully summarizing what I have otherwise read on the topic, and which I think you might benefit from reading:

    https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302

    I think you’ve been a regular commenter on this website for about a year now, and have probably encountered all sorts of extremely controversial ideas and disturbing comments that were entirely new to you, and naturally take some considerable time to digest and assimilate even under the best of circumstances. There’s also sometimes a tendency to become a little “giddy” with some of those shocking ideas, and perhaps react in extreme fashion.

    In the past, you’ve generally seemed like a pretty level-headed and rational fellow, but on this particular thread you seem to have become overly excited.

    For example, in a comment a few days ago, you seemed to assume a titanic future global racial struggle between Asians, whites, and blacks, in which only group will manage to avoid total annihilation, arguing that all Asians must band together to win that existential battle to survive:

    China need everyone of our Asian brothers and sisters in the civilisational struggle against US hegemony and Western civilisation…There are Asians, Whites and Blacks but in all likelihood, only ONE of these races will survive in the next 1000 years.

    https://www.unz.com/article/will-asians-stay-woke/#comment-4259456

    Frankly, I regard such a dire scenario as *exceptionally* implausible. Under any sort of rational situation, China, America, Russia, and the other major countries in the world would probably get along pretty well, though with some occasional friction. Unfortunately, the US has recently been suffering under a crazy government, but if the government becomes less crazy, I’d hope things can get back to a more amicable situation, though certainly with some lingering problems.

    Your historical perspective seems somewhat naive to me. Throughout human history, different groups have sometimes fought and massacred each other, have sometimes lived in reasonable harmony, and have sometimes merged and amalgamated. This has happened on all scales from the smallest hunter-gatherer tribe to national states with huge populations, with all sorts of different economic, cultural, and political factors determining the particular reactions, which can frequently shift over time.

    As for the Jewish Holocaust, it really does sound like you’d never bothering looking at my long article on the subject, much of which I think you might find quite surprising:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

    If you’ll recall, I’d mentioned a week or two ago that I thought my American Pravda series, especially the portions published in the last couple of years, constituted an exceptionally deadly weapon aimed straight at the ideological heart of the existing regime of America and the West, and if widely read by “serious” people, might have enormous consequences. The reactions of several very high-ranking mainstream academic scholars have tended to support that conclusion.

    If you decide to go through and read some of my articles I think you may better understand what I mean:

    https://www.unz.com/page/american-pravda-series/

  176. Bumpkin says:
    @Ron Unz

    the US has recently been suffering under a crazy government, but if the government becomes less crazy, I’d hope things can get back to a more amicable situation

    “Recently,” since when? After all, you’re the guy who alleges or suspects that the first US Secretary of Defense was suicided after WWII, that Kennedy was killed by an ostensible ally, Israel, and that the military has been rampaging all over the world from Vietnam to Iraq ever since. I don’t disagree with most of that, but if so, wasn’t the Trump admin the most amicable in generations by comparison?

    I just don’t see what you expect to change and bring the US out of its tailspin, which Trump only briefly interrupted. If Biden takes office, we’ll have a senile idiot in charge, or whoever his corrupt puppet masters are pulling the strings.

    Finally, a request from me: you repeatedly refer to the important, unnamed people who you claim to know and who are aware of some of what you write, but would never broach any of it in mixed company, let alone publicly. I think it would be interesting for you to write an article about your time spent with these people, a first-hand account of how they’re often deceived by the American Pravda or sometimes figured it out (with all names that need to be removed kept private, of course).

    Perhaps it could be the tale of your awakening, to realize the Pravda you’ve been reading and living most of your life.

  177. @Ron Unz

    No offense, Ron, but you’re being taken for a ride via trolling and you don’t even realize it. There are a couple of things that lead me to believe “Chinaman” is actually a Jew larping as a Chinese, or is at best a non-American overseas Chinese.

    First is his repeated usage of the word “Asian”, for example, when using it to reference the purported view towards ‘Asians” that led to the Chinese Exclusion Act. Not only is this factually inaccurate– a concomitant increase in Japanese immigration was observed around the same time; I thought all yellow people were the same?– but it also references that era using terminology not in widespread usage during that time, or even now outside the United States.

    Chinese people do not define themselves by racial categories such as “Asian”; they view themselves as Chinese. Same for Koreans, Japanese, and anyone that actually resides within East Asia. People in that region simply do not self-identify using that term, so its usage betrays a complete ignorance regarding how ethnic or national identity is defined. If anything, usage of the term reveals a decidedly American/American-influenced point of view, because it is the only region within which that term might plausibly overlap with “Chinese”. Note that in other parts of the West, particularly Britain, “Asian” refers to those from the Indian subcontinent.

    Second, to the extent that anyone “Asian” in America is ethnically Chinese, they are viewed as distinct from the home grown population. There are separate words, 华侨 or 华人, used to denote those abroad, and they even encapsulate those that were born in China but moved to America at later date. The mere existence of these terms precludes the idea that those in China and those outside are functionally equivalent, and we haven’t even gotten to the fact that the legal status of ethnic Chinese without PRC citizenship is not the same. I’m open to any evidence to the contrary.

    So any imagined solidarity between people in the PRC and Asian-Americans is just as delusional as white nationalism.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Maowasayali
  178. Ron Unz says:
    @Cho Seung-Hui

    No offense, Ron, but you’re being taken for a ride via trolling and you don’t even realize it. There are a couple of things that lead me to believe “Chinaman” is actually a Jew larping as a Chinese, or is at best a non-American overseas Chinese….Chinese people do not define themselves by racial categories such as “Asian”; they view themselves as Chinese…If anything, usage of the term reveals a decidedly American/American-influenced point of view, because it is the only region within which that term might plausibly overlap with “Chinese”.

    Well, that’s certainly possible, but I’m skeptical…

    All of your analysis is certainly correct, but he claims to be an internationally-oriented Hong Kong Chinese who lived in Australia and NYC for a period of time, which seems reasonably consistent with his language usage. Obviously, his views are a little “eccentric”, but this website attracts such individuals.

    Just out of curiosity, I browsed his Commenter Archive, and nearly all his earliest comments dealt with China and Chinese issues, supporting the idea that he comes from that background. It’s obviously quite possible that he’s inventing or exaggerating his position as a successful financial investment manager, but that’s a different sort of thing.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  179. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    For example, in a comment a few days ago, you seemed to assume a titanic future global racial struggle between Asians, whites, and blacks, in which only group will manage to avoid total annihilation, arguing that all Asians must band together to win that existential battle to survive. Frankly, I regard such a dire scenario as *exceptionally* implausible. Under any sort of rational situation, China, America, Russia, and the other major countries in the world would probably get along pretty well, though with some occasional friction.our historical perspective seems somewhat naive to me. Throughout human history, different groups have sometimes fought and massacred each other, have sometimes lived in reasonable harmony, and have sometimes merged and amalgamated. .

    I assume you invest the time to engage me in this conversation because you believe you believe I can be persuaded by logic and facts. Now, I have been trying to do the same thing by trying to redirect the discussion away from the silly semantics of “genocide” to the scientific underpinnings of these “racial friction”. I am not interested in debating definitions with you but you kept drawing us back to it. It won’t get us anywhere.

    I have a scientific worldview that is informed by evolution, genetics and sociobiology. I believe most human behaviors are adaptive and shaped by millions of years of natural selection\evolution. I have had an interest in these subjects since I read “Selfish Gene” by Richard Dawkins during my late teens. While you have focus your attention on racial tension and crime in Amereica, I have followed the developments in evolutionary psychology and sociobiology for the past two decades and watch these field blossom with the sequencing of the human genome and the identification of specific genes which predisposed an individual for certain behavior. (especially crime) The best example in popular science is the Warrior Gene MAOA. There is a lot of forbidden knowledge in this area…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A

    We are experiencing an unprecedented and aberrant period in human evolution in which humanity is NOT pushing against the Malthusian frontier as it had for 99.9% of its existence, that is, the competition between race\groups\individuals is the lowest ever in human history. This explains the relative harmony that you cited. I am also not sure it is sustainable indefinitely because of climate change (as in an Ice age) or fossil fuel runs out. As you said, massacres and wars are the norm in human history and it is most likely we revert to that natural state of things when resources dwindle. I know you don’t watch TV but dystopian movies are pretty cool.

    Now, as I kept reiterating (which you have ignored), many archaic human species have gone extinct as a result of Homo Sapiens’s migration\spread across the world. This is not an “eccentric” view but a highly plausible hypothesis accepted by many experts in this field.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/world/there-used-to-be-nine-species-of-human-what-happened-to-them

    The extinction of all these archaic human led me to believe there is a genetic disposition for such behaviors such as “genocide” (whatever that means) and I believe this process is still ongoing until we amalgamate (as it happens in China and Rome) into a big brown “blob” or one dominant race wipe out the other. The most likely outcome is a mix of the two as you said but the advent of WMDs, nukes and bioweapons makes the “genocide” scenario much more likely now. As you yourself have conceded in another thread, America might launch a nuclear war in its madness. If COVID was indeed a bioweapon, which you seem to believe, and if China had failed to contain it which would have led to millions of deaths, isn’t that supportive of the “genocidal” view that I have put forth here?

    Russia, America and even China are transient entities that are of little interest to me. They are names and entities that probably won’t last another 100 years. They rise and fall. They are ephemeral. I hope we can at least agree on that. What endures is the genotype encoded in our DNA. The race, not the individual, has become to be the unit of natural selection in human evolution. The study of racial relations from an evolutionary perspective is probably the most important subject we should focus on now. Can CRISPR remove those alleles that predispose one to racism… or even crime?

    None of this stuff is about being “woke”.

    There are many ways to study history, I choose to study it through a scientific worldview and genetics. If that seems naive and lacks nuance, then a historical account or “investigative journalism” is just missing the forest for the trees. It doesn’t help our understanding. I think you may gain a new perspective by reading a bit of Sociobiology (if you haven’t done so) …as I have gained from reading your Pravda series.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Rdm
  180. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well, that’s certainly possible, but I’m skeptical…

    I am often perplexed what stuff that I said that makes people think I am a Jew? May be you can shed light on that? I make an effort to argue my case using facts and logic, and when the discussion gets heated and they have nothing better to say, they start calling me a Jew. I think I will take it as a compliment from now on.

    It’s obviously quite possible that he’s inventing or exaggerating his position as a successful financial investment manager, but that’s a different sort of thing.

    I think we agree that it is pretty infantile for people to lie about these things and you wouldn’t be wasting your time with me if you believe I was engaging in such pointless behavior. I would be quite disappointed if you thought that.

    I don’t even try to bring it up unless people start questioning my identity. It is actually a stupid mistake (and hubris) to disclose things like that. It is great that no one believes it.

    • Replies: @Cho Seung-Hui
  181. @Chinaman

    I make an effort to argue my case using facts and logic, and when the discussion gets heated and they have nothing better to say, they start calling me a Jew.

    Lol, gotta love how you responded to what I said while replying to someone else’s comment as if I wouldn’t have noticed. Perhaps not hiding your responses in the comment to a different poster might elicit more replies?

    You also proceed to do exactly what you’re accusing me of doing, which is not responding to the substance of what I was saying. Specifically, that Chinese don’t view themselves as “Asians” and that overseas Chinese don’t have the same status as those born and raised in China with a local hukou. They also don’t give a rats ass about things like “wokeness”. I’m still waiting for a response.

    If you actually read my comment, I specifically say that you’re a Jew OR a overseas Chinese masquerading as an actual Chinese. I guess the latter part of that statement is true given your silence.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  182. Chinaman says:
    @Cho Seung-Hui

    a overseas Chinese masquerading as an actual Chinese.

    I don’t make an distinction but I guess it would be pretty easy and obvious for a Chinese to masquerade as a… Chinese. I try not to waste my time on such banalities and hope someone would discuss the genetics of genocide\race with me. Seems like I am on the wrong site for that.

    If you bothered to look at my past comments. I am a Hong Konger who have studied aboard and worked in the States. It was the coverage on HK protest that brought me here.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Cho Seung-Hui
  183. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    There are many ways to study history, I choose to study it through a scientific worldview and genetics. If that seems naive and lacks nuance, then a historical account or “investigative journalism” is just missing the forest for the trees. It doesn’t help our understanding. I think you may gain a new perspective by reading a bit of Sociobiology (if you haven’t done so) …as I have gained from reading your Pravda series.

    Well, it does sound like you’re not particularly familiar with either my own background or my writings…

    I was a teenager when E.O. Wilson’s Sociobiology came out in 1975, and I got and read one of the earliest copies. I later studied under him at Harvard, and then a few years ago I finally got around to writing up and publishing some of the ideas I’d developed at that time:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    I remember telling all of my very skeptical friends that Dawkins’ Selfish Gene was one of the most important books of the decade, and I’d still stand by that opinion today. I always used to think that if for some reason I couldn’t go into my own field of theoretical physics, then evolutionary biology/sociobiology would certainly be my next choice.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/does-race-exist-do-hills-exist/

    I’d say over the years I’ve probably read close to 100 books in ev-bio or sociobiology, and I really do think I have a pretty good understanding of that subject-area.

    By contrast, I haven’t been overly impressed with the sophistication of your own understanding of such issues, at least based upon all the sorts of crude racial positions that you have spouted. The notion that different races almost inevitably exterminate each other would probably be classified as “Vulgar Sociobiology” (as in “Vulgar Marxism”).

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  184. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    If you bothered to look at my past comments. I am a Hong Konger who have studied aboard and worked in the States. It was the coverage on HK protest that brought me here.

    Actually, there’s another reason I think it reasonably likely that you are who you claim to be…

    If you were someone else, Jewish or otherwise, who was pretending to be Chinese in order to order to stir up unnecessary racial conflict, it seems most likely that you would be an American, like the great majority of the other participants on this website. It’s also unclear why some random foreigner would falsely pretend to be Chinese and also be so interested in Chinese issues.

    But as I’ve emphasized in this thread, your views of the racial realities of America are totally ridiculous, and it’s very difficult to believe that anyone familiar with American society would make himself look so completely foolish. Although it’s certainly possible that (just as you claim) you may have lived and worked here for a relatively short period of time, you’re almost certainly not American.

    If I started spouting off about Hong Kong society and Hong Kong history, I’m sure I would soon say so many foolish things that you could immediately be sure that I wasn’t a Hong Konger.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  185. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, I had to step off of this thread due to work demands so hopefully I am not too late to respond to you.

    Previously I made the point that the type of discrimination Asian Americans will go through is not the same as blacks or hispanics which you seem oblivious to.

    You seem to be saying that since Asian Americans are not being choked to death by cops, what we go through is not real racism. And we should get thicker skin and quit being so woke. You are not the first person to say this to us.

    What you don’t understand is the perspective of Asian American’s. The biggest threat to us is not black or hispanic crime, it is exclusion. Being excluded from top schools because we are too successful, being excluded from social groups because we are not American enough, and getting kicked out of the country because we will always be foreigners here.

    How much do you know about Asian American history in this country? I’m sure you know about the Chinese exclusion act and the Japanese internment. But this fear of being a perpetual alien in your own country is what Asian Americans fear the most. Not being attacked by blacks.

    The Corona Virus was a wake up call for Asians. Many of us were the stereotypical model minority, working hard, not committing crimes, never complaining about “mild” discrimination, and having white spouses and kids. So it was a shock that no matter how good of a citizen you were, you were still going to be treated as a foreigner.

    Asian Americans see that China and the whole of Asia is growing fast, and white Americans are angry about that. What happens if this trend accelerates and America hits a great depression? What happens if there is a shooting war? You think there will be more homeless guys yelling at us and that is it?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  186. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    If Asian-Ams today aren’t really considered “Americans” then surely the same must be true of Hispanics

    Why would the same be true? That doesn’t make any sense. Every group in America faces the same kind of discrimination?

    Andrew Yang was Chinese and Tulsi Gabbard part Asian.

    Ron, this is a really weak argument. Tulsi is part Indian, but what would you think she is if you saw her walking down the street? I would assume she is white.

    Yang isn’t a good argument either. As you admit. He was a very minor character in the race. And while there were white nationals who supported him, what exactly does that mean? There were probably ideas they liked like UBI, and that he was not hostile towards whites.

    But he has nowhere near the enthusiasm that Trump has. Trump has a cult following in the 10’s of millions, while no one knows who Yang is.

    I think your analysis of the racial aspects of American society is probably 50-60 years out of date. Don’t forget that the Chinese Exclusion Act to which you refer was enacted almost 140 years ago, when Chinese still lived under the Imperial rule of the Manchu dynasty. Suppose I were to argue that Chinese are innately drawn to living under the rule of an absolute divine monarchy, and pointed to the Manchu and many earlier dynasties as strong evidence. Would that be a valid argument in 2020?

    And yet, Japanese Americans were sent to internment camps within many of our lifetimes. You seem to see history in a linear way, but many Asians see history as more of a cycle where history repeats itself.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Ron Unz
  187. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’d say over the years I’ve probably read close to 100 books in ev-bio or sociobiology, and I really do think I have a pretty good understanding of that subject-area.

    I am very glad we have found some common ground and it is not often that I get to discuss these matters with others so can we finally begin to talk about it? I have to say there was nothing that you have said on this particular thread that indicates you have any knowledge or interest on this subject.

    The bottom line is that very few Amerinds lived in North America, often as hunter-gatherers, and of those, the bulk died of European diseases, in many cases perhaps even before whites arrived in North America. The small number of surviving Amerinds occasionally fought very small scale wars or skirmishes with white Americans for about 150 years, until most of them were eventually swamped and absorbed into the vastly larger white population.

    Now, I was also not overly impressed with the narrative above which seems a bit self-serving and biased to me (and certainly to a Native Indian) which is why I have been trying to “elevate” the conversation beyond silly semantics and ad hominem attacks to try to understand your views on the “racial friction” from a larger evolutionary\natural selection context.

    You have stated your credentials, now let me hear your views and answer my questions above… in regards to racial fiction\racially motivated crimes in America from a sociobiologial\evoluationary perspective. I also want to know what you think about the extinction\genocide of all archaic human species and whether that has relevance in today’s context. Have our technology and our brains evolved to the extent to “transcend” our base instincts such that such genocidal outcomes are no longer a possibility?

    You know my position, which most would regard as a strong form of genetic determinism (or vulgar\crude\naive whatever in your view) but I have only made probabilistic statements and acknowledging these outcomes are tail events in a chaotic and path-dependent complex system.

    I don’t know your views on the matter and hope to FINALLY get to discuss it instead of just wasting time hearing how ridiculous or ignorant I seem or how crude my views are compared to a sophisticated “racial” position. You have made that point many times so can we move on? If there is one redeeming quality that I take pride in, I am humble to learn and intellectually honest when it comes to my faults, no matter how ridiculous I look.

    I am assuming you have a scientific position on race relations in America that is informed by what we know about evolution\sociobiology after studying such matters for decades and writing an article on Social Darwinism in China (of all places)…or may be you don’t?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  188. Chinaman says:
    @Tor597

    Good to have you back. I have been attacked left and right on this thread exactly for not being an American…

  189. Rdm says:
    @Chinaman

    For what it’s worth, I understand the logics and facts that Chinaman was deriving from.

    I’m not sure if I’m in the same camp as Chinaman in the argument with Ron. I’m neither on both sides because Ron has a point and Chinaman has a point too.

    Ron’s point is Native Indian Genocide and Chinaman was arguing from the scientific point of view. Both are right in their perspective. It’s just that the discussion diverges somewhere along the line of “genocide” terminology.

  190. Ron Unz says:
    @Tor597

    Ron, this is a really weak argument. Tulsi is part Indian, but what would you think she is if you saw her walking down the street? I would assume she is white.

    For someone apparently so interested in racial issues, you should get your basic facts straight. Tulsi Gabbard has ZERO Indian ancestry, but instead is part-Polynesian, and Polynesians have generally been grouped with Asians. Offhand, anyone looking at her would think she was Eurasian, of mixed European and Asian ancestry, which is exactly what she is. Perhaps because you’re an Asian, she may “look white” to you, but almost no white people would think she was pure Caucasian.

    If Asian-Ams today aren’t really considered “Americans” then surely the same must be true of Hispanics

    Why would the same be true? That doesn’t make any sense. Every group in America faces the same kind of discrimination?

    For the last twenty-odd years, Hispanics have periodically been targeted for enormous public hostility, not least upon the Internet, and certainly by the Trump Administration along with its activist-supporters and media outlets, vastly more hostility than the very minor and inconsequential criticism of Asians prior to this year. Believing that your own (Asian) group has been the primary target of racial abuse and hostility makes you look extremely foolish and self-centered.

    Here’s a useful datapoint to consider. About a year ago, some “excitable” white dimwit in Texas became so agitated after reading about the “Mexican invasion” on rightwing websites that he went out and massacred 23 (mostly) Mex-Ams at a Walmart in Texas. I’m not sure whether there’s ever been so enormous a massacre of Asians in this country, and certainly not in the last 100 years. If Asians had instead been the victims, someone like you would be talking about it 24-7 for the next decade, but since it was a different group, it’s apparently slipped your mind.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  191. Ron Unz says:
    @Tor597

    What you don’t understand is the perspective of Asian American’s. The biggest threat to us is not black or hispanic crime, it is exclusion. Being excluded from top schools because we are too successful…

    For an Asian-Am apparently interested in racial issues, your ignorance seems simply appalling, especially given my own very extensive research and writing on exactly these topics.

    It’s difficult to believe that you’re not aware that back in 2012, I was the individual who rather conclusively demonstrated the existence of an “Asian Quota” in Ivy League admissions. My extremely long article The Myth of American Meritocracy spurred the New York Times to immediately organize a symposium on that topic, and it also sparked the Harvard lawsuit that surely must have come to your attention:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

    https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-an-asian-quota-in-the-ivy-league/statistics-indicate-an-ivy-league-asian-quota

    Perhaps you’re vaguely aware of my analysis, but it’s extremely clear that you haven’t actually read and understood it. Let me quote a few crucial paragraphs:

    When examining statistical evidence, the proper aggregation of data is critical. Consider the ratio of the recent 2007–2011 enrollment of Asian students at Harvard relative to their estimated share of America’s recent NMS semifinalists, a reasonable proxy for the high-ability college-age population, and compare this result to the corresponding figure for whites. The Asian ratio is 63 percent, slightly above the white ratio of 61 percent, with both these figures being considerably below parity due to the substantial presence of under-represented racial minorities such as blacks and Hispanics, foreign students, and students of unreported race. Thus, there appears to be no evidence for racial bias against Asians, even excluding the race-neutral impact of athletic recruitment, legacy admissions, and geographical diversity.

    However, if we separate out the Jewish students, their ratio turns out to be 435 percent, while the residual ratio for non-Jewish whites drops to just 28 percent, less than half of even the Asian figure. As a consequence, Asians appear under-represented relative to Jews by a factor of seven, while non-Jewish whites are by far the most under-represented group of all, despite any benefits they might receive from athletic, legacy, or geographical distribution factors. The rest of the Ivy League tends to follow a similar pattern, with the overall Jewish ratio being 381 percent, the Asian figure at 62 percent, and the ratio for non-Jewish whites a low 35 percent, all relative to their number of high-ability college-age students.

    Just as striking as these wildly disproportionate current numbers have been the longer enrollment trends. In the three decades since I graduated Harvard, the presence of white Gentiles has dropped by as much as 70 percent, despite no remotely comparable decline in the relative size or academic performance of that population; meanwhile, the percentage of Jewish students has actually increased. This period certainly saw a very rapid rise in the number of Asian, Hispanic, and foreign students, as well as some increase in blacks. But it seems rather odd that all of these other gains would have come at the expense of whites of Christian background, and none at the expense of Jews.

    The absolutely central point is that relative to their academic performance white Gentiles are MASSIVELY underrepresented at elite academic institutions compared to Asians, a particularly ironic situation given that those institutions were entirely created by the group now largely excluded from them. Perhaps you should ask yourself why you have been so totally misinformed about these simple quantitative facts. Once you understand that, I suspect your understanding of the world will change considerably.

    I would strongly urge you to actually read and digest my extremely long 2012 article on the subject. As an alternative option, I produced a much shorter update a couple of years ago that excerpts some of the most important elements:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-racial-discrimination-at-harvard/

    Once you actually read this material, perhaps you’ll understand just how irritating it is for some random Asian commenter such as yourself to ignorantly preach to *me* about Asian-Am “exclusion” from elite universities…

    • Replies: @Tor597
  192. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron,

    As I mentioned myself upthread, Asians are used to being called names and racial stereotypes. This alone is not enough to make what is largely an apolitical group angry.

    What makes us mad is when kids get their face cut open or kicked in the face, Asian women getting acid thrown on them, and old ladies getting kicked. There are lots of videos of this happening online, and if anyone doubted this all they had to do was walk around in public. Even Andrew Yang said he felt this whenever he went shopping.

    The point is, it wasn’t just some drunk in S.F. These were regular people who were lashing out at us and it was happening all over the country.

    As far as blacks go, are Asian leaders gutless in not calling out blacks? Absolutely. But as I explained in a previous comment Asians aren’t concerned with black people so much. The only reason blacks lashed out was because the media (that we know is run by white people) kept running stories about how the Chinese were mistreating Blacks.

    This is much more dangerous than some black guy randomly attacking you.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Yevardian
  193. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    You are looking at the last months worth of stories, you aren’t looking back to March – April when the anti-asian violence was at its peak.

    Once Floyd got killed the sentiment changed and a lot of the animus was white – black.

  194. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    I am assuming you have a scientific position on race relations in America that is informed by what we know about evolution\sociobiology after studying such matters for decades and writing an article on Social Darwinism in China (of all places)…or may be you don’t?

    Well, I’ve made my position very clear in many dozens of my published articles over the decades, and I really can’t see why I should repeat myself every time some random commenter comes along who is too lazy to read what I’ve already written. My most significant articles are collected at this link:

    https://www.unz.com/page/race-ethnicity-articles/

    If you’re only willing to read one article, this one from 2011 would probably be the most useful since it provides some quantitative evidence of the distribution of racial conflict or lack thereof:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/immigration-republicans-and-the-end-of-white-america-singlepage/

    Basically, my position is a simple one. Asians and whites generally get along perfectly well, or at least as well as the various different European ethnic groups did on the East Coast 50-60 years ago. These very good relations have been the case for 40-50 years now, so it’s extremely unlikely that things will change in the future. I’d say my position is almost universally held by knowledgeable people in our society, with the number of those with sharply different views being rather negligible. In fact, I can’t think of the last time I ever came across any half-sensible person who sharply disagreed.

    Personally, I don’t have a clue what happened to the Neanderthals 50,000 years ago. Maybe the Cro-Magnons killed them all or (more likely) they just starved to death because their food sources were different. The impression I have is that a substantial fraction of the ancestry of today’s South Asian population derives from the primitives (related to the Australian Aborigines) who lived in that area before the arrival of more advanced peoples. Similarly, despite 90-95% of the local Amerinds having been wiped out by smallpox and other European diseases, a large fraction of current Latin American ancestry in many countries traces back to the survivors. There are large numbers of similar historical situations all around the world. Therefore, I’m really not sure whether “Genocide” is quite as common as you seem to believe.

    On the other hand, since the official UN definition of “Genocide” includes “mental cruelty,” if you go by that definition, “Genocide” has certainly been rather common. Indeed, husbands and wives sometimes “Genocide” each other every week or two.

    Since it sounds like you read one or two books in Sociobiology many years ago and then developed all sorts of very eccentric ideas, I’m really not sure why I should waste any more time on you. I think you may have mentioned that you were never very good at math, so it’s less likely that you have much of a science background either. If you want to know my views, you can read my many published articles.

    How would you react if I started spouting off about Hong Kong in a rather ignorant fashion?

    • Replies: @Chinaman
    , @Chinaman
  195. Ron Unz says:
    @Tor597

    What makes us mad is when kids get their face cut open or kicked in the face, Asian women getting acid thrown on them, and old ladies getting kicked.

    As I indicated in a couple of earlier responses, you strike me as a total ignoramus on the racial subjects that you are discussing. If I had to guess, I’d say you might be some fairly young Asian-Am guy who’s taken one too many Ethnic Studies courses, and gets now most of your (very limited) knowledge of the world from Social Media and YouTube videos. My website attracts all sorts of ignorant white-activist types, so perhaps it’s not too surprising it would also attract a few ignorant Asian-activist types as well.

    Let me repeat the statement I made several days ago and which you have still totally ignored:

    Here’s a challenge. There are about 20 million Asians in living in America, and roughly one million total annual violent crimes, including homicides, rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults. How about if you find me TEN serious, violent attacks upon Asians by whites so far this year, preferably with some sort of racially-motivated indication. And please do exclude husbands beating wives or that sort of thing.

    If you can’t easily find TEN cases among 20 million Asians, I doubt the problem is really all that severe…

    Given that you believe whites are regularly throwing acid at Asian women, slicing open the faces of Asian students, and kicking old Asian ladies, finding just TEN such cases during all of 2020 should be very easy for you. Just get in touch with some of the big Asian-activist organizations that focus on such things, and I’m sure they’ll give you a very long list of such horrific crimes…

    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Tor597
  196. As an Asian American that voted for Trump – I find that most of my peers could not get past the China Virus as a direct threat at their identity, but they were mainly low info voters that were not familiar with the Dem corruption.

    Regarding long term agendas, I can not see how USA can compete against China without promoting their Asian American native population. The lack of Asian American representation in media and politics only seeks to boost the CCP narrative that US is indeed racist. I suspect that Jewish owned Hollywood is hugely complicit in this. The way the media mocks Asian Americans has to be a psyop since it seems so unnecessary. As a whole, the US population has not accepted the Asian American population psychologically which is troubling if you believe in the HBD IQ stuff.

    A troubling trend I am also seeing is that the US is attempting to bring in Indians in an attempt to compete against the Chinese, but that i think is the wrong course of action. Indians are familiar of the multi cultural society and will take advantage of Americans. The Brahmins will eventually turn the US into the image of India where different racial castes that believe different things will end up having to tolerate all crazies from each group.

    So in summary the US needs the intellectual horsepower of Asian Americans otherwise i dont think they can compete at all. And throw in the whole 2+2=5 nonsense, the outlook is bleak, but I still remain optimistic that the US will do the right thing in the end.

  197. Yevardian says:
    @Tor597

    Actually, I think in any recent given year or month, there would almost certainly be more mildly autistic/socially inept white people who would face attacks or verbal abuse (though hardly so lurid as you described) from other whites, simply for espousing mildly negative rhetoric about Asians, Muslims, Indians or, most damning of all, blacks.

    I’ve lived in several Australian cities which have experienced dramatic increase in their Asian populations over a very short period, and although many locals (especially the older generation, who remember what their country used to be like) deeply resent it, violence is practically unheard of. The only serious race riot in Australia occurred in Cronulla more than a decade ago, but that was due to a rapid influx of Lebanese, who assimilated very poorly into the area, aggressively asserting their tribal ways in a formerly relaxed beach town, as Muslims do.

    I should mention that in the core CBD areas of Sydney and Melbourne, Chinese characters have become absolutely ubiquitous (counting only working age people, and reckoning that ‘international students’ and ‘temporary visa’ holders are not held in the statistics, I would reckon the percentage of Asians/Indians in the big cities to be much, much higher than 25%, up from nearly zero 4o years ago).

    Additionally, Chinese in particular are particularly prominent in the real estate business (the most parasitic of all economic sectors), massively contributing the enormous speculative property bubble in the country, making much of the inner city unaffordable for working-class whites. Conversely, Indians are highly competitive in low-tier work and entry-level office/programming jobs, due to their servile nature and willingness to endure poor conditions and low pay.
    There’s also a few Somalians and South Sudanese, the number of which under normal conditions would be considered a negligible, but commit crime in proportions so outstanding for their population they’ve become a staple of tabloid news, and the associated ‘anti-racist’ idiots who protest on the ‘brutality’ they receive in consequence.

    Anyway, this became somewhat of a tangent, but my final point is, I think actually, the immigration situation in America is actually far better than Australia, which often (falsely) pointed as some sort ‘based’ model. Latin Americans are frankly the only large group within Western Civilisation that still have positive fertility, Americans could do much worse.

    Anyway, your notion that whites are attacking asians on the streets in any European country is totally ridiculous. Australia is roughly the country where it would be more likely to happen than basically anywhere else, and it’s totally unheard of.

    • Agree: Cho Seung-Hui
    • Replies: @Cho Seung-Hui
  198. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    How would you react if I started spouting off about Hong Kong in a rather ignorant fashion?

    I apologize if I said somethings that I hurt your feelings. I didn’t expect the snowflake culture to be so prevalent. If someone holds a dissenting view that I disagree with, I usually try to understand his point of view and perspective first and see whether he is reasoning from a false premise\facts\assumptions or whether there are fallacies in his logic. Making ad homninen attacks, Tu quoque and calling his argument eccentric, naive or vulgar doesn’t help me in convincing him or make my argument any stronger.

    I think you may have mentioned that you were never very good at math, so it’s less likely that you have much of a science background either.

    Wow, you seem to know a lot about me! Yes, compared to my peer group, I do suck at math. Two of my chinaman friends are IMO golds and some of my employees and people I worked with are Physics Phds and mathematicians so I do feel humbled all the time. I have to manage these quants all the time. We Chinaman always try to be humble. Your math and scientific background are definitely stronger than me.

    Since it sounds like you read one or two books in Sociobiology many years ago and then developed all sorts of very eccentric ideas

    I don’t really read “Sociobiology” or even evolutionary psychology anymore. Lots of mumbo jumbo new-age stuff these days. I assume you have moved on from sociobiology to a gene-centric view now. You are right though…I still need to finish Nicholas Wade!

  199. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’m really not sure why I should waste any more time on you.

    I agree. This doesn’t seem to be going anywhere except to descend down the mud-wrestling route. Have a good day.

    However, I will go and read some of your articles on matters we discussed although I am not sure they are related to sociobiology.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  200. @Chinaman

    Bro, no one from mainland china EVER thinks that Hong Kongers are the same as them. And given the Hong Kong protests, neither do Hong Kongers.

    Sit down.

  201. @Yevardian

    Lol, gotta love how there was no reply to this. GG

  202. Ron Unz says:
    @Chinaman

    Making ad homninen attacks, Tu quoque and calling his argument eccentric, naive or vulgar doesn’t help me in convincing him or make my argument any stronger…This doesn’t seem to be going anywhere except to descend down the mud-wrestling route.

    Well, you were seeming to preach the inevitability of a global war of extermination between whites, Asians, and Africans apparently based upon your having once read a book or two of Sociobiology. I labeled that “eccentric” but I think others might have a harsher description.

    However, I will go and read some of your articles on matters we discussed although I am not sure they are related to sociobiology.

    Since you seem so focused upon Sociobiology, I should mention I’ve been a little friendly for many years with some prominent scholars in that field. Indeed, one of the founding fathers of that discipline is on my regular distribution list, and just a few months ago he dropped me a note saying that he’d learned more from my writings than he had from anyone else in his entire life.

    Perhaps you’ll now understand I can get irritated with people who hang around my website without bothering to read my articles, but instead ask me all sorts of foolish questions in comment-threads.

    • Replies: @Antiwar7
  203. Antiwar7 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Maybe you could use a FAQ? Sort of a very abbreviated version of your articles/positions. A lot of work, and I’m not saying you owe it to anyone to make one. But then you could just point to it.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  204. Ron Unz says:
    @Antiwar7

    Maybe you could use a FAQ? Sort of a very abbreviated version of your articles/positions. A lot of work, and I’m not saying you owe it to anyone to make one. But then you could just point to it.

    The problem is that over the years and decades, I’ve taken a very large number of positions, many of them on *extremely* controversial topics. Trying to summarize those extremely controversial positions in just a couple of sentences or paragraphs would be a difficult and rather hazardous undertaking. By contrast, I stand behind virtually everything I’ve written in the past, and those articles present my views with proper context and nuance.

    However, some of this is already provided in the “Who is Ron Unz?” and FAQ sections of our Masthead page:

    https://www.unz.com/masthead/#who-is-ron-unz

    • Replies: @Antiwar7
  205. Antiwar7 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Understood. You’re right, I think: a bumper sticker version of your lengthier articles would likely be so simple as to be inaccurate.

  206. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, that is not what I meant. I am not saying that Asians have it worse than Mexicans. And yes, I definitely remember that incident where many Mexicans were gunned down.

    I was just making the point that different races face different kinds of discrimination in this country so they have different perspectives. This includes white people who face discrimination too.

    White people may be concerned about not getting the job because there is a racial quota to meet,
    black people are concerned about police violence, and Asians are worried about being seen as a perpetual Alien.

    Hispanics have their own set of concerns.

  207. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, I am definately aware of your writings on this topic.

    But look at what they are doing with the SAT and ACT’s. They are trying to dilute them to increase enrollment of more blacks and hispanics.

    Look at what the politicians are trying to do in California by trying to bring back affirmative action. It was defeated, but the reason it was on the table in the first place is because from the politicians perspective there are too many Asian and White people in college and not enough Black and Hispanics.

    Reading your article I learned that gentile whites are discriminated against too and I never said otherwise.

    But what do you think we will see going forward? I fully expect to see the ACT and SAT’s to be diluted even more and to see more attempts to bring back affirmative action.

    This has already happened in high-schools that were too Asian, so it is logical to assume there will be more efforts going forward.

    I think the first time I mentioned college in this post, I said elite colleges. I am not talking about college in general because of what I have learned from your writings.

  208. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, you are wrong on my background. I am middle aged, conservative, and my school never offered Asian studies. I did miss the earlier point about Tulsi Gabbard because I didn’t pay much attention to the D primaries. So my bad.

    I have already said several times that I DON’T think Asians are being attacked more than black people and certainly never said whites are regularly throwing acid at Asians.

    I think it is a disservice to label everything as woke the same as liberals label everything as racist.

    This is an anonymous handle, so the majority of my comments here are either trolling the trolls or not being serious. So maybe you didn’t get my points or maybe my earlier comments made you think I was woke. This was just trolling Spirit of Enoch Powell because he does the same to me in other threads.

    I don’t think racial issues in America can be reduced to racist vs woke. Look at black people. I do agree that the several deaths of black people over the summer were mainly played up by the media. But look at things from the black perspective.

    There is massive inequality in America with many black people living in horrid conditions. When black people see one of their own die brutally, what are black people supposed to think? They see this as confirming all of their worst fears.

    Even if brutal attacks are rare, they are significant because it confirms the worst fears in you plus it tells you the direction of where things are heading.

    I don’t think white people understand this as well as minorities because white people run this country. But as white people get targetted more and more and start to lose power to other people, you are starting to see white people react the same way.

    I don’t think you can infer anything from these types of brutal attacks alone. But they are defiantely significant and should not be dismissed.

    Look at France. France went to war (just a figure of speech of course) with Muslims because a single Muslim guy beheaded a Frenchman. This cost France a huge amount of money and prestige, but was it so illogical?

    All things aside, I definitely respect the work you have put out. No one else is shedding light on so many taboo subjects or has been as brave in doing so.

    This is the direction I was hoping Lew Rockwell would take, but he is too comfortable where he is at.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  209. Tor597 says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, one more point.

    My first comment was in response to this article that talked about why Republicans were so unpopular with Asian Americans.

    I said that if Republicans wanted our vote, they should not be so hostile to us.

    Then a bunch of people responded by saying it was bullshit and Asians shouldn’t complain. Then I provided examples of violent attacks but people were still saying it wasn’t enough.

    I never started off by saying Republicans or whites hate Asians. I was merely defending my position that many Asians faced abuse and violent attacks because of what Trump and other Republicans did and I stand by that statement.

  210. Ron Unz says:
    @Tor597

    Ron, you are wrong on my background. I am middle aged, conservative, and my school never offered Asian studies…Even if brutal attacks are rare, they are significant because it confirms the worst fears in you plus it tells you the direction of where things are heading.

    Well, if you’re actually a middle-aged Asian conservative rather than an agitated Asian teenager confused by ethnic-studies classes and Social Media, you have less of an excuse for your foolish ideas.

    You still haven’t responded to my challenge to locate just TEN cases during 2020 in which Asians were violently attacked by whites anywhere in America, preferably with some indication of a racial motive.

    You had claimed that such white attacks were a serious problem, and I said I’d almost never heard of such a thing. If you can’t find easily TEN examples among America’s 20 million Asians and a million annual violent crimes, I think my view is probably more correct. Indeed, it’s possible that Asians are more at risk of being hit by lightning than attacked for racial reasons by white people in America.

    As I mentioned, the most recent murder in quiet Palo Alto was committed by a middle-aged Chinese woman who killed her (Chinese) sister-in-law. Despite that incident, I doubt people here have become fearful of the many middle-aged Asian women who live in this town…

  211. @Cho Seung-Hui

    So any imagined solidarity between people in the PRC and Asian-Americans is just as delusional as white nationalism.

    Agree.

    E. Michael Jones has argued that anyone who identifies himself or herself as being “White” instead of being “Irish-American” or “Italian-American” or “Polish-American” etc. has already lost the battle.

    Being “White” is tantamount to being a “racist” and or “antisemite.” The term or category of being “White” was created by the Oligarchs* precisely for that weaponized purpose. Ditto for being “Asian.”

    *The CIA invented the term “Conspiracy Theorist” to denigrate anyone who questioned the official and fantastical story of the JFK assassination… that it was done by a lone gunman named Lee Harvey Oswald, who, coincidentally, also worked for the CIA, and claimed to the world on live TV that he was “just a patsy” shortly before he himself was assassinated by Jack Leon Ruby, born (((Jacob Leon Rubenstein))).

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Chris Roberts Comments via RSS