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Trump, JFK, and the Deep State
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There’s a lot of talk these days about the “Deep State,” especially among supporters of President Trump, some of whom believe that this Deep State is working hard to destroy anyone loyal to Trump, both inside and outside of the government, and ultimately, Trump himself. General Flynn was forced to resign after a media scandal surrounding his contacts with Russian ambassadors – a scandal which, by most accounts, was highly exaggerated. After Flynn’s resignation, prominent neoconservative and NeverTrumper Bill Kristol tweeted:

More recently, Trump supporter Mike Cernovich was on InfoWars with Alex Jones claiming that the recent Milo Yiannopolis scandal was also a “Deep State operation.”

The “Deep State” is aptly summed up by journalist Jefferson Morley in a recent article at Alternet:

“The Deep State is shorthand for the nexus of secretive intelligence agencies whose leaders and policies are not much affected by changes in the White House or the Congress. While definitions vary, the Deep State includes the CIA, NSA, Defense Intelligence Agency, and components of the State Department, Justice Department, Department of Homeland Security, and the armed forces.”

Morley is well-qualified to write about the Deep State, as he is a veteran researcher on the JFK assassination, whose work on CIA agent George Joannides is one of the most important developments in that case in the last twenty years, as I previously wrote. The very term “deep state” was coined by Peter Dale Scott, a veteran researcher of the underbelly of American and world politics, and someone who, like Morley, has done important work on the JFK case.

The Playboy Presidents

Although liberals and leftists hate to admit it, there are incredible parallels between Trump and Kennedy. First, both men were independently wealthy when they ran for office, which meant that they were not as reliant upon special interest donations to fund their campaigns. Second, both men are known to have been quite fond of the ladies, their marriages to beautiful women notwithstanding. Trump was surreptitiously recorded by the media making lewd statements. JFK was recorded by J. Edgar Hoover in flagrante delicto on multiple occasions, and was reported to have once remarked to a visiting dignitary: “If I don’t have a woman every three days or so I get a terrible headache.”

When JFK assumed office, he appointed his younger brother Robert as Attorney General, a move that was widely criticized as nepotism. Trump works closely with his daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner, and is criticized in the same way. But more important than any of this trivia, which is on the level of the Kennedy-Lincoln coincidences, is both men’s opposition to the will of the Deep State, specifically in regards to Russia.

JFK vs. the Deep State

Although Kennedy was elected in 1960 as a Cold Warrior, he moved away from a hardline stance almost immediately after being elected. In 1961, he refused to provide U.S. military support to the CIA’s bungling Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, something that many in the CIA never forgave him for.

In 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy negotiated peace with Russian leader Nikita Kruschev. This was against much of the advice coming from the Deep State, who estimated that, although the United States would lose 80% of its population in a thermonuclear war, the Russians would lose 100% of theirs. So, we would “win.” Kennedy rightfully recognized this as sheer insanity.

At the same time that JFK was talking to Kruschev, CIA agent Bill Harvey was ordering raids on Cuba, in direct violation of Presidential directive, with the goal of provoking a missile launch by the Russians so as to start a war. When the crisis ended, Robert Kennedy had Harvey transferred out of the Western hemisphere so that he couldn’t cause any more such trouble. Harvey never forgave the Kennedy brothers, and retained a bitter hatred of them for the rest of his life.

In 1963, just months before his death, President Kennedy gave an historic speech at American University, outlining a vision for peaceful coexistence between the United States and Russia. It featured prominently in Oliver Stone’s film JFK, and is worth watching in its entirety.

Kennedy negotiated a peace with the Russians during the missile crisis, and at the time of his death, he was making overtures to Fidel Castro and also beginning to withdraw U.S. troops from Vietnam. Historians disagree about whether Kennedy was serious about peace with Cuba, as there were also plans for an all-out invasion of the island happening at the same time. But regarding Vietnam, more and more support for the notion that JFK would not have escalated the conflict has emerged since this thesis was first developed by Peter Dale Scott in the 1970s and then more extensively by John Newman in his 1992 book JFK and Vietnam.

Kennedy was a user of “back channels” for sensitive communications. In negotiating with the Soviets, messages were passed back and forth between “Soviet Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin or other Soviet officials to other members of President Kennedy’s official family.” The overtures to Cuba were made through journalist Lisa Howard, and also through Ambassador William Attwood. Historian Michael Beschloss, in an article on the back channel talks in the New York Times, writes that “Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy worried that such talks would leak and embarrass his brother on the eve of his 1964 re-election campaign, but the president quietly encouraged Attwood to pursue the matter.” The leaks of General Flynn’s communications with the Russians, and their consequences, show that RFK’s worries were well-founded.

Meanwhile, while JFK was using back channels to negotiate peace with the Russians and possibly with the Cubans as well, Lyndon Johnson had his own back channel – to the Deep State. This is documented by John Newman in his aforementioned book, which has just been re-released in a second edition. Generals from the Joint Chiefs of Staff bypassed the President and communicated with the Vice-President instead, who was much more of a hawk on Vietnam than Kennedy was. It took Lyndon Johnson all of two days to reverse Kennedy’s plans to withdraw from Vietnam. He is alleged to have said to the Joint Chiefs, “Just get me elected, and I’ll give you your damn war.”

Perhaps Hillary Clinton should have made a similar deal with the powers that be. Or perhaps she tried. As Glenn Greenwald, who can hardly be accused of being a right-wing Trump shill, recently said:

“The CIA and the intelligence community were vehemently in support of Clinton and vehemently opposed to Trump, from the beginning. And the reason was, was because they liked Hillary Clinton’s policies better than they liked Donald Trump’s. One of the main priorities of the CIA for the last five years has been a proxy war in Syria, designed to achieve regime change with the Assad regime. Hillary Clinton was not only for that, she was critical of Obama for not allowing it to go further, and wanted to impose a no-fly zone in Syria and confront the Russians. Donald Trump took exactly the opposite view. He said we shouldn’t care who rules Syria; we should allow the Russians, and even help the Russians, kill ISIS and al-Qaeda and other people in Syria. So, Trump’s agenda that he ran on was completely antithetical to what the CIA wanted. Clinton’s was exactly what the CIA wanted, and so they were behind her. And so, they’ve been trying to undermine Trump for many months throughout the election. And now that he won, they are not just undermining him with leaks, but actively subverting him. There’s claims that they’re withholding information from him, on the grounds that they don’t think he should have it and can be trusted with it. They are empowering themselves to enact policy.”

As for Lyndon Johnson, he later came to have deep regrets about his decision to “give them their damn war.” The unpopularity of the war, which split American society in two much in the way that Trump’s election has, cost Johnson his reputation. He is reported to have said, in the White House, as anti-war protesters outside shouted, “Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today,” “Don’t they know that I’m with them?” But they didn’t know because, however much he may have been with them in spirit, in deed he had allied himself with the Deep State and the military-industrial complex that President Eisenhower had warned against. In 1968, Johnson declined to run for re-election, certain that he would have lost. He lived the rest of his life as a recluse on his Texas ranch, growing his hair long like the hippies who protested against him. He died only five years later, in 1973, a broken and forlorn man.

The Left vs. the Deep State

There has been a lot scholarship and investigative reporting about the Deep State over the past decades, and most of it has come from the left. In the 1980s, Bill Moyers hosted a documentary called The Secret Government, which was based on revelations about the Deep State that had emerged during the Iran-Contra scandal. At that time, John Kerry was a Senator and was in charge of the investigation into Contragate and its associated crimes.

One of the things that they uncovered was massive CIA involvement with drug trafficking, something which was later investigated further by journalist Gary Webb, the subject of the 2014 movie Kill the Messenger. The only people who took Webb’s allegations seriously at the time were people on the left, some of whom had known for years that certain people in the intelligence agencies were involved in the drug trade, because of works like Alfred McCoy’s The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia and Peter Dale Scott’s Cocaine Politics. Scott once remarked that “When the U.S. was involved in covert operations in southeast Asia in the 1960s and 1970s, we had a heroin epidemic on this continent. In the 1980s, when some of the same people were involved in a covert operation in Central America, we had a cocaine epidemic. That’s not a coincidence.”

But today, liberals and leftists who have historically been been opposed to the nefarious machinations of the Deep State find themselves in a strange situation, which seems to present itself as a choice between rooting for Trump, whom they loathe, and rooting for the cocaine-dealing, Kennedy-sniping CIA. Between a crack rock and a hard place, as it were. The left hates Trump because they think he’s a racist and a tyrant. But those in the Deep State who oppose Trump do so not because they are champions of peace and equality, but because they want war with Russia and Iran, which will become World War 3 and will cost millions of lives and trillions of dollars.

So, is the enemy of your enemy your friend, no matter how fiendish?

Trump vs. the Deep State?

Peter Dale Scott, in a recent article adapted from his book The American Deep State, takes a nuanced approach in which he distinguishes between two factions within the Deep State, which have co-existed for a long time. He writes of

“an old division within Big Money — roughly speaking, between those Trilateral Commission progressives, many flourishing from the new technologies of the global Internet, who wish the state to do more than at present about problems like wealth disparity, racial injustice and global warming, and those Heritage Foundation conservatives, many from finance and oil, who want it to do even less.”

It is “an enduring struggle between “America Firsters” and “New World Order” globalists, pitting, through nearly all of this [20th] century, the industry-oriented (e.g. the National Association of Manufacturers) against the financial-oriented (e.g. the Council on Foreign Relations), two different sources of wealth.”

This division within the wealthy elite also existed during the Kennedy years. At that time, right-wingers from the oil industry such as H.L. Hunt and Clint Murchison were some of the main proponents of the America First philosophy, against globalist organizations like the United Nations and the Council on Foreign Relations, which they thought were too communistic. Since communism is, by definition, an internationalist ideology, the right has long opposed all forms of globalism.

Since American industry and manufacturing were more powerful in the early 1960s than they are now, it follows that this America First wing of Big Money was more powerful and influential then. It is perhaps an irony that, while capitalism ultimately prevailed against communism in the great ideological battle of the 20th century, nonetheless it was New World Order globalism and not America First nationalism which prevailed in American governance.

In Scott’s view, Trump is not an outsider or opponent of the Deep State, but rather a representative of this other wing of Big Money, which comes from manufacturing and, especially, from oil. Thus, the attacks on “the Party of Davos” – the globalist wing of the ruling elite – are not really populist in nature, but rather merely coming from the other wing of the same ruling elite.

When Russia Tried to Hack a U.S. Election with Fake News

Since JFK was a liberal whose views were more in line with the progressive wing of Big Money, he was most vigorously opposed by the America Firsters. Indeed, on the day of his assassination in Dallas, the son of H.L. Hunt had paid for a full page ad in the newspaper accusing Kennedy of treason. After the assassination, these same right-wing oilmen became prime suspects in the minds of many conspiracy theorists, because of their staunch opposition to Kennedy all throughout his presidency, and because of their close ties with the intelligence and defense industries.

The first book to accuse the entire Deep State of the crime (although that term did not yet exist) was a curious book called Farewell America. It was written pseudonymously under the name James Hepburn, and published in Europe in 1968 by a fake publishing company calling itself “Frontiers.” It alleged that the assassination had been orchestrated by a “committee” made up of interests from big oil, the intelligence agencies, and the defense department. (It even insinuated that Roy Cohn, who worked for right-wing senator Joseph McCarthy and who later became a mentor to Donald Trump, might have had a hand in it somehow.)

Supporters of Farewell America claim that the book has its origins in a private investigation conducted on behalf of Robert and Jacqueline Kennedy by RFK confidantes and by sources in French intelligence. As author Gus Russo tells the story:

“At that time, [Robert] Kennedy said, ‘I just can’t believe that guy [Oswald] acted alone. I’m going to contact someone independent of this government to get to the bottom of this.’ Bobby then contacted a lifelong friend of the Kennedy family, then working in Britain’s intelligence agency, known as MI6. The friendship dated back to the days when Papa Joe Kennedy was the US Ambassador to England. Undertaking this highly secretive mission, the MI6 agent contacted two French intelligence operatives who proceeded to conduct, over a three year period, a quiet investigation that involved hundreds of interviews in the United States. One agent was the head of the French Secret Service, Andre Ducret. The second was known only as “Philippe” — believed to be Philippe Vosjoly, who was a former French Intelligence Chief in the United States. Over the years, Ducret and Philippe hired men to infiltrate the Texas oil industry, the CIA, and Cuban mercenary groups in Florida. Their report, replete with innuendo about Lyndon Johnson and right-wing Texas oil barons, was delivered to Bobby Kennedy only months before his own assassination in June of 1968.”

But detractors of Farewell America say, au contraire, that the whole thing was a hoax by the KGB, designed to stoke fear and diminish trust in American institutions and the country’s elite.

In his memoir If You Have A Lemon, Make Lemonade, New Left publisher Warren Hinckle recounts how Farewell America may have had its origin in District Attorney Jim Garrison (the subject of Oliver Stone’s JFK) and his decision to approach the KGB for any information they might have on the CIA and its involvement in the Kennedy assassination. Garrison sent an envoy to the Soviets at their Mexico City embassy – the same one that Lee Oswald allegedly visited only months before the assassination – to see if the Russian spies would be interested in ratting out their American opponents. The Russians said that this might be possible, but if it were to happen, it would be in a way that was untraceable to them. A few months later, the manuscript of Farewell America showed up at Garrison’s office. When inquiries were made as to its sources, the trail led back to the French SDECE, which, in Hinckle’s words, “was so notoriously, and almost hilariously, riddled with KGB double agents that as a matter of course Frenchmen were offered vodka before wine at international spy gatherings.”

That the KGB did take an interest in promoting JFK conspiracy theories for this purpose was later confirmed by KGB defector Vasili Mitrokhin in his book The Sword and the Shield.

It seemed that part of the purpose of Farewell America was to influence the 1968 election in favor of Robert Kennedy, who was praised alongside his late brother, while Lyndon Johnson and virtually the entire rest of the American establishment was vilified. The book likened the Kennedy brothers to the Roman Grachii and their fight against corruption in the Roman Republic. But when Bobby Kennedy was himself gunned down that year, the promotion of Farewell America was abandoned, and the English language version of the book was left to rot in a Canadian warehouse for decades. It is now a collector’s item, known for it’s notoriously poor binding, which splits apart as soon as one opens the book.

The More Things Change …

Of course, history doesn’t repeat so much as it rhymes, as Mark Twain supposedly observed. This time, it’s not the right-wing America First Deep State fighting the liberal President, but rather the globalist “progressive” Deep State fighting the right-wing America First President. But in both cases, the President’s desire to have peace with Russia is at the heart of the conflict.

To his supporters, Trump is a champion of the people, a Caesar fighting against a corrupt elite, and against the enemies of the Republic both at home and abroad. To his detractors, Trump is a fraud, a billionaire who only feigns allegiance to the working class, and who like Caesar has dictatorial ambitions. That such disparate views of the same man can co-exist within the populace is partly testament to the deep division within American society, and partly to the effect of a multiplicity of media, such that different ideologies can stay locked inside their echo chambers, never having any real contact outside of them.

Then again, even JFK, that relic of a simpler, greater time that Trump harks back to, has his different versions. To some, like Oliver Stone and Jim Douglass, he is a hero and a martyr for peace, murdered by the Deep State because he dared to stand up to them. To others, like Noam Chomsky, he was a warmonger and a mediocre President, as subservient to power and money as any other, who was lucky to be struck down by an assassin’s bullets before he could be struck down by scandal.

Trump’s recent clash with the CIA certainly brings to mind JFK’s confrontation with them after the Bay of Pigs. After privately accusing the CIA of lying to him and giving him false information, he fired Director Allen Dulles and Deputy Directors Charles Cabell and Richard Bissell. He said that he would like to “smash the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter them to the winds.”

Trump almost certainly understands how his predecessor felt. In addition to the leaks of the Flynn communications, recent reports indicate that the agency is deliberately withholding information from him. In a visit to CIA headquarters in January, Trump said to the employees gathered there that maybe he would build them a new room, built “by someone who knows how to build. And we won’t have columns – do you understand that?” Though this was unsurprisingly ignored by the media, his meaning was clear to anyone who knows what a “fifth column” is.

It’s tough talk, but it remains to be seen what will come of it.

• • •

Addendum: One thing that hopefully will come of it is that President Trump will oversee the release of the last remaining secret government documents that pertain to the Kennedy assassination, which are scheduled to be released in October of this year – except in the event of a petition from the CIA to keep them secret, which is what everyone is expecting to happen. The classified documents consist of “1,100 files concerning the likes of CIA officials Bill Harvey, Howard Hunt, David Phillips, David Morales, Ann Goodpasture, and George Joannides, as well as the surveillance operations that picked up on Lee Harvey Oswald as he made his way from Moscow to Minsk to Fort Worth to New Orleans to Mexico City to Dallas.”

Explaining who these individuals are and why these files are important to history would require, at minimum, a separate and very long article. But what virtually everyone agrees on at this point, even those who believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone assassin, is that the CIA and the federal government engaged in a massive cover-up after the event, and the murder was never properly investigated. Explanations as to why this happened vary, with some believing that the feds were merely trying to cover their asses and avoid exposure of some of their more unseemly activities, like wiretapping Kennedy’s mistresses, or partnering with the mafia and trying to kill Fidel Castro. Others, however, believe that the CIA in particular has long been hiding something more sinister. Their collective behavior in stonewalling and deceiving the House Select Committee on Assassinations in the 1970s certainly invites such a conclusion.

But regardless of what’s in those files, and regardless of who really killed JFK, Trump should make the CIA release those records. At this point, isn’t the mere fact that the agency doesn’t want to do it a good enough reason for the President to somehow force their hand?

However, it should go without saying that there will be no smoking gun, no master key that unlocks the great unknown. One of the problems inherent in the study of the JFK assassination is that looking into it opens a Pandora’s box of historical mysteries and uncertainties, all interconnected in shadowy, intriguing ways, which nonetheless never offer of themselves a definitive understanding. This lure of an ever-elusive truth, like a mirage receding into the distance, has been the death of more than one journalistic career, such that writers now are cautioned away from the case as if it were hard drugs, or the abyss that Nietzsche warned of – when you peer into it, the Deep State looks back at you.

(Republished from Foreigner Thoughts by permission of author or representative)
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  1. utu says:

    What about Israel and Israel’s nuclear program.

    JFK letter to Ben-Gurion May 18, 1963

    June 1963, David Ben-Gurion resigned from Israel’s government

    “His reasons for stepping down were unclear. According to the most sensational guesses, he resigned because he did not want to meet U.S. President John F. Kennedy’s demand for American inspection of the nuclear reactor in Dimona”

    JFK letter to Levi Eshkol Jul 4, 1963

    “Knowing that you fully appreciate the truly vital significance of this matter to the future well-being of Israel, to the United States, and internationally, I am sure our carefully considered request will have your most sympathetic attention.”

  2. Miro23 says:

    The legend goes that when Alexander arrived in Gordium, he found the Gordian Knot, which had proved impossible to unravel, but which promised the ruler ship of Asia to anyone who could untie it.

    Alexander didn’t have any success either, but (the story goes) he cut the knot with his sword (or took out a lynchpin) removing this frustrating object – and going on to become the ruler of Asia.

    The CIA has many of the features of a Gordian Knot. It’s complicated, useless and impossible to unravel, but it also promises a great future for the person who can remove it – hopefully Trump with some “outside the box” thinking.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  3. Great article.
    Like the fact the author does not fail to link the deep state with various elements in the 0.01%.
    Think his view that Elites are , to some extent, split between globalists & nationalists has real merit.
    Connection between Trump & JFK (& Johnson/ Pence) is very interesting.
    Hope Trump can do what JFK couldn’t: start draining the filth from the swamp, beginning with that leaking pus filled wound on the Constitution: the CIA.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  4. Anonymous [AKA "Mad Men"] says:

    A brilliant article by Jack Ravenwood!

    Ravenwood uses the Scott view that the schism in the deep state is between Trump’s Deep state Conservative faction Vs a Progressive faction.

    Meanwhile David Chibo describes the schism as between Trump’s military faction Vs the corporate and political factions of the deep state.

    Another version is by Charles Hugh-Smith on zero hedge who came up with a very similar conclusion about the schism within the deep state:

    The fact that the father of deep state politics, Peter Dale Scott, and these three authors are all seeing what is a schism within the deep state is good news for America and the rest of the world.

    A deep state divided cannot stand!

    • Replies: @Art
  5. mcohen says:

    4 years and 2 days.


  6. My money has always been on Kellogg-Brown-Root, which spent a fortune over the years to lift Johnson to the pinnacle of power and subsequently made boatloads of money servicing government contracts for Vietnam.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  7. Sam J. says:

    You forgot to mention the Jews wanting Kennedy dead. He was trying to stop their obtaining nuclear weapons and even worse was printing silver certificates to back the US dollar instead of going through the FED. His brother was leaning on the (((mob))) in actuality mostly Jewish instead of Italian like Hollywood likes to constantly push into our head. That (((Jack Ruby))) shot Oswald is probably the “smoking gun”.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  8. Sam J. says:

    My apologies for double posting I meant to ask a question. Does the CIA have a large amount of Jews controlling it? It would explain a lot of things. The present policies of the deep State are profoundly anti-American but they’re fine and dandy for the Jews. The Jews could easily get in the CIA and slowly take over.

    The opposing force would be the DIA and others in the NSA. These, unlike the CIA, require joining the military frequently, something the Jews avoid. The DIA has not been able to stop the Jews and the CIA due to total media control and control of the legislatures due to media and money control but maybe after 9-11 and all these stupid wars the Jews cooked up for us they have had enough. Flynn being military intelligence strengthens this scenario. I would not be surprised if Trump knows about 9-11 and the perpetrators of this act and is moving against them.

    If I was him I would cancel the security clearances of all the CIA’s people and all the top management of the NSA. Then slowly refill with people on our side or do away with them altogether.

    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @Charlesrocksit
  9. dearieme says:

    “the CIA’s bungling Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba”: come off it. It was JFK’s invasion: he gave it the green light. The CIA were simply the mutton-heads who had planned and executed it.

    “Although Kennedy was elected in 1960 as a Cold Warrior, he moved away from a hardline stance almost immediately after being elected.” I suspect you mean “although JFK told flagrant lies about the Soviet missile threat during his election campaign, he had no need to repeat those lies in office”.

    “he was … beginning to withdraw U.S. troops from Vietnam”: he’d put them there in the first place. It was Kennedy’s War, illuminated by his having the South Vietnamese Prime Minister assassinated.

    “Historians disagree about whether Kennedy was serious about peace with Cuba, as there were also plans for an all-out invasion of the island happening at the same time.” Hm: “there were also plans” – there’s a moral agent missing there. Plans don’t just happen.

    “The book likened the Kennedy brothers to the Roman Grachii and their fight against corruption in the Roman Republic.” Hats off for the guffaw. That’s about as likely as a pressure group “Clintons Against Corruption”.

    “But regarding Vietnam, more and more support for the notion that JFK would not have escalated the conflict”: mere onjecture; utterly unknowable.

    I do get fed up with all the sentimental guff about JFK, who was just another unprincipled scoundrel occupying the White House for his own ends.

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Alden
    , @Alden
  10. Art says:

    The CIA et al are an unelected unaccountable power center in our nation. This situation must stop.

    The CIA covert actions taken against other nations must stop – they have a poor record of lasting success.

    We must not surreptitiously interfere in other countries affairs. Spy – yes – interfere – NO.

    Stop CIA covert action — PERIOD.

    Peace — Art

    p.s. The problem is that we do not have a congress with the gonads to do anything.

    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
  11. bluedog says:

    The Bay of Pigs of course was hatched under Ike who gave the go ahead JFK only permitted it to run its course, with the understanding that no American ground forces would be used,which was a wise move, for the Cubans had mini-nukes and they say a least a division would have been killed in a ground assault
    And of course Henry Cabot Lodge who JFK had appointed as special ambassador to Vietnam to try and get an assessment of the situation became a traitor to not only his president but the country, as he crawled in bed with the CIA’S section chief in Siagon.Lol I don’t know where you dig up your history from on that era but its sure not from government records or any other documented records that I know of ,or doubt anyone else does either…

  12. Tom Welsh says:

    ‘He is reported to have said, in the White House, as anti-war protesters outside shouted, “Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today,” “Don’t they know that I’m with them?”’

    Wow. How would someone who was against them have behaved, I wonder?

  13. Tom Welsh says:

    A lot of people agree with you that the CIA should be abolished, or at least cut down to size and forbidden to act illegally.

    But wanting that is the easy part. Who is going to bell the cat? Which specific individuals are going to set the governmental wheels in motion, and run the risk of almost certainly suffering a fatal accident?

    • Replies: @BB753
    , @Art
    , @mukat
  14. Tom Welsh says:

    “The left hates Trump because they think he’s a racist and a tyrant”.

    Supporters of governments that have deliberately killed millions of Asians – at least 3 million each in Vietnam and Iraq, just for starters, including a million children in Cambodia and Iraq – those people are upset because they think Mr Trump is *racist*?

    I suppose that is what raving insanity looks like.

  15. Tom Welsh says:

    “Their report, replete with innuendo about Lyndon Johnson and right-wing Texas oil barons, was delivered to Bobby Kennedy only months before his own assassination in June of 1968.”

    My, what a huge coincidence!

  16. Tom Welsh says:

    “Of course, history doesn’t repeat so much as it rhymes, as Mark Twain supposedly observed”.

    It’s very possible that Twain did say something of the kind; he was very good at packaging wise sayings in witty aphorisms. I suspect the original idea was this:

    “Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce”.

    – Karl Marx, “The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon”…_first_as_tragedy.2C_then_as_farce.22

  17. Tom Welsh says:

    ‘ [John Kennedy] said that he would like to “smash the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter them to the winds.”’

    As Gandhi replied when asked what he thought of Western civilisation, “I think it would be a very good idea”.

  18. BB753 says:

    In my opinion, the greatest danger to Trump’s administration comes from the Permanent Government, that is the Federal civil service and the judiciary, not the Deep State. The former can stop any presidential order dead in its tracks by refusing to comply or by legal action.
    There are so many intelligence agencies and so many players with conflicting interests imside them, that the administration can with some effort neutralize them from within or without. Not so with the Permanent Government because it is monolithic, 95 % Democrat and effectively runs everything.

  19. BB753 says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Have the different intelligence agencies fight each other and in doing so, neutralize them. There are 9 of them, not just the CIA.

    • Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond
  20. Art says:

    The jest of the zerohedge article is that the military deep state is fighting the neocon Jew deep state.

    By appointing all those generals to his administration Trump has sided with the pro-American military deep state over the globalist Jewish deep state.

    Maybe the generals have found their American gonads. Let us hope.

    Peace — Art

  21. I am not to partial to personalities analysis. In my opinion it is only distraction from politics.
    The all mess did start by declaration of “Project for New American century”by neocons. Whose slogan was “Full spectrum dominance.” Deep state is more or less dying remnant of the policies instituted by this project.

    • Replies: @Bailey Reynolds
  22. anarchyst says:
    @The Alarmist

    In Vietnam, during the “American war” (as it is called today), there was a consortium of civil-engineering firms, contracted by the U S government to do civil engineering projects. RMK (Robertson Morrison-Knudsen), BRJ (Brown-Root and Johnson), the Vietnam consortium known as RMK-BRJ…
    Utilizing local labor and being paid a “loaded rate” for local Vietnamese personnel made this consortium a real moneymaker for the principals involved. Both Morrison-Knudsen and Brown and Root were (and still are) well-known (and connected) civil engineering firms…
    RMK (Robertson Morrison-Knudsen) Robertson was Pat Robertson’s “daddy”, the politician.
    BRJ (Brown-Root Johnson) Johnson was none other than Lyndon Baines Johnson, the president of the USA.
    War is indeed “big business”…
    It is no wonder Johnson wanted to expand the Vietnam war…

  23. When examining a raw, rare stone, numerous cleavage planes offer themselves up as most opportunistic sites with which to split off nonessential waste and leave the valuable core. Mr. Ravenswood correctly identifies the key cleavage plane as that between the financial and the manufacturing sectors of our economy.

    A (since deceased) uncle of mine occupied a post as vice-president in charge of Research and Development for what was at the time (1970-1980) America’s largest _______ firm. Some of his correspondence from this period survives. The schism in the boardroom was whether the company should adopt the then novel global, financialization schemes being developed by the Harvard MBAs or should they stick to the tried and true template of loyalty to the American worker and consumer.

    This was during the time when Jewish financiers such as Icahn, KKR and Milliken were using massive leverage to acquire chunks of the American manufacturing; a process that was extended to control of financial assets and reached its pinnacle when applied–with the connivence of the Federal Reserve and numerous deregulation schemes–to the largest loan market in the world, the U.S. housing market. Jews, being small in absolute numbers, had and have to rely on leveraging (of many different flavors) to gain control of or highly influence whatever goal they set their sights on.

    At one point in his speech (I listened to the whole) Kennedy chides the Soviets for their apparent paranoia in subscribing to the phantasmic notion that America was bent on world rule. Here Kennedy is being either disingenuous or naive.

    While it may be true that the USA did not seek to establish literal imperial domination of all nations by force of arms, it was and is nevertheless true that the US did and does wish to bring all nations under one Global Banking System dominated by London and New York. And good Communists recognize this. Kennedy is being either the disarmingly clever leading tip of the wedge on behalf of the American banking system or a chump.

    As Mike Whitney and Michael Hudson on this site have documented, economic imperialism is just as effective as bombs and tanks in subjugating a people. Persons laboring under cradle to coffin debt peonage are not free to do anything but get up in the morning and go to work, while a good chunk of their paychecks go towards servicing debt owned by the financiers. Remember folks; THE MAJORITY OF SO-CALLED “HOMEOWNERS” IN AMERICA WILL DIE WITHOUT HAVING PAID OFF THEIR HOME MORTGAGE. And also–fools that they are–they will have spent more on automobiles than on their mortgages.

    So the deeply leveraged financiers won the battle and gained control over the established WASP banking system and manufactures, whose board of directors now saw numerous seats occupied by nouveau-riche upstarts who advocated “maximizing stockholder returns”, became “convinced” that more profits were to be made abroad in developing markets and said “To Hell with patriotism and the American People” and threw in their lot with them.

    But not all of them were fully on board e.g. Trump and his ilk. And the process may have reached a point of diminishing returns as what had formerly been an engine of growth has been run for too long without oil and is in danger of seizing up–which makes today’s financiers somewhat like the brutal peasant in Dostoyevski’s novel, who beat his poor, bedraggled horse to death in its traces.

    • Replies: @Olorin
  24. “With the cry of “now,” the mare tugged with all her might, but far from galloping, could scarcely move forward; she struggled with her legs, gasping and shrinking from the blows of the three whips which were showered upon her like hail. The laughter in the cart and in the crowd was redoubled, but Mikolka flew into a rage and furiously thrashed the mare, as though he supposed she really could gallop.


    “Let me get in, too, mates,” shouted a young man in the crowd whose appetite was aroused.

    “Get in, all get in,” cried Mikolka, “she will draw you all. I’ll beat her to death!” And he thrashed and thrashed at the mare, beside himself with fury.

    “Father, father,” he cried, “father, what are they doing? Father, they are beating the poor horse!”

    “Come along, come along!” said his father. “They are drunken and foolish, they are in fun; come away, don’t look!” and he tried to draw him away, but he tore himself away from his hand, and, beside himself with horror, ran to the horse. The poor beast was in a bad way. She was gasping, standing still, then tugging again and almost falling.

    “Beat her to death,” cried Mikolka, “it’s come to that. I’ll do for her!”

    “What are you about, are you a Christian, you devil?” shouted an old man in the crowd.

    “Did anyone ever see the like? A wretched nag like that pulling such a cartload,” said another.

    “You’ll kill her,” shouted the third.

    “Don’t meddle! It’s my property, I’ll do what I choose. Get in, more of you! Get in, all of you! I will have her go at a gallop! . . .”

    All at once laughter broke into a roar and covered everything: the mare, roused by the shower of blows, began feebly kicking. Even the old man could not help smiling. To think of a wretched little beast like that trying to kick!

    Two lads in the crowd snatched up whips and ran to the mare to beat her about the ribs. One ran each side.

    “Hit her in the face, in the eyes, in the eyes,” cried Mikolka.

    “Give us a song, mates,” shouted someone in the cart and everyone in the cart joined in a riotous song, jingling a tambourine and whistling. The woman went on cracking nuts and laughing.. . He ran beside the mare, ran in front of her, saw her being whipped across the eyes, right in the eyes! He was crying, he felt choking, his tears were streaming. One of the men gave him a cut with the whip across the face, he did not feel it. Wringing his hands and screaming, he rushed up to the grey-headed old man with the grey beard, who was shaking his head in disapproval. One woman seized him by the hand and would have taken him away, but he tore himself from her and ran back to the mare. She was almost at the last gasp, but began kicking once more.

    “I’ll teach you to kick,” Mikolka shouted ferociously. He threw down the whip, bent forward and picked up from the bottom of the cart a long, thick shaft, he took hold of one end with both hands and with an effort brandished it over the mare.

    “He’ll crush her,” was shouted round him. “He’ll kill her!”

    “It’s my property,” shouted Mikolka and brought the shaft down with a swinging blow. There was a sound of a heavy thud.

    “Thrash her, thrash her! Why have you stopped?” shouted voices in the crowd.

    And Mikolka swung the shaft a second time and it fell a second time on the spine of the luckless mare. She sank back on her haunches, but lurched forward and tugged forward with all her force, tugged first on one side and then on the other, trying to move the cart. But the six whips were attacking her in all directions, and the shaft was raised again and fell upon her a third time, then a fourth, with heavy measured blows. Mikolka was in a fury that he could not kill her at one blow.

    “She’s a tough one,” was shouted in the crowd.

    “She’ll fall in a minute, mates, there will soon be an end of her,” said an admiring spectator in the crowd.

    “Fetch an axe to her! Finish her off,” shouted a third.

    “I’ll show you! Stand off,” Mikolka screamed frantically; he threw down the shaft, stooped down in the cart and picked up an iron crowbar. “Look out,” he shouted, and with all his might he dealt a stunning blow at the poor mare. The blow fell; the mare staggered, sank back, tried to pull, but the bar fell again with a swinging blow on her back and she fell on the ground like a log.

    “Finish her off,” shouted Mikolka and he leapt beside himself, out of the cart. Several young men, also flushed with drink, seized anything they could come across–whips, sticks, poles, and ran to the dying mare. Mikolka stood on one side and began dealing random blows with the crowbar. The mare stretched out her head, drew a long breath and died.

    “You butchered her,” someone shouted in the crowd.

    “Why wouldn’t she gallop then?”

    “My property!” shouted Mikolka, with bloodshot eyes, brandishing the bar in his hands. He stood as though regretting that he had nothing more to beat.”

  25. Che Guava says:

    I will commentimg on Yiannopolous.

    He was entertaining. What tripped him up? A simple statement of fact about much of the gay scene.

    After Lena Dunham’s boasting about molesting her little sister, how was Milo so bad? She never had to resign anything, but what she did was much worse, but that is all alright it seems.

    Milo was acknowledging a simple fact, and everyone who has some social connections with homosexuals knows it, not all by any means, but some, and it is an ancient recruitment device.

    Dunham’s little sister was converted by Lisa’s interference.

    Western trends for trannies will make great sex toys for the new rulers following the Islamic conquest of western Europe. The latter will happen within fifty years.

    Sorry for you.

  26. Art says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Which specific individuals are going to set the governmental wheels in motion, and run the risk of almost certainly suffering a fatal accident?

    The new CIA chief is x-military – maybe there is some hope there?

    Peace — Art

  27. anarchyst says:
    @Sam J.

    Jack Ruby’s real name was Jack Rubenstein…sorta tells you something.
    Kennedy was not printing “Silver Certificates”, but was printing “United States Notes” outside of the “Federal Reserve System”.
    United States notes are distinguished from ordinary Federal Reserve Notes by having a red Treasury Seal and are clearly marked “United States Notes”.
    They are still available from coin dealers…

    • Replies: @anonymous
  28. mukat says:
    @Tom Welsh

    Trump can decimate the CIA or any gov’t agency by furloughing 90% of personnel “in anticipation of funding cuts in a future budget” that he simultaneously unveils. Even if Congress re-funds the institution, Trump can re-furlough. Even deep-staters need a paycheck – the majority will give up on their gov’t careers.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Sam J.
  29. As for Lyndon Johnson, he later came to have deep regrets about his decision to “give them their damn war.”

    At least Johnson had the humanity to regret his crimes. Does anybody think Dubya is losing any sleep? Obama? Clinton?

    He died only five years later, in 1973, a broken and forlorn man.

    I served under Johnson. This is exactly what he deserved.

    Where does the constitution enumerate the powers of the deep state? The entire federal government is illegal. Illegitimate. The Anglo/Zio Empire is an abomination, especially dangerous now because it is dying. America will never be great again. Post Imperial America will balkanize. When the Social Security checks and food stamps stop coming who will remain loyal to the police state? The dollar has lost 93% of it’s value since the creation of the FED in 1913. When the dollar finally goes to zero Washington will be a toothless old pauper. Powerless to put down secession movements. The worst is yet to come. But after the crash the survivors will have an opportunity to build something better.

  30. It’s tough talk, but it remains to be seen what will come of it.

    Why, of course we know what will come of it: he’ll make a deal. That’s his ‘art’, innit?

  31. Sparkon says:

    But that might leave Pres. Trump open to accusations of “reverse decimation”…

  32. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Confluence of events- 1 Attacks on Fiat Money of Fed
    2 Not doing what LBJ did for Israel
    3 Going against CIA
    4 Embarking on path to the peace rather than to the war

    That did it The forces finished him

    Now some stupid wants us to believe Castro did or Soviet did .

    Johnosn was on board He had blood of Vietnamese, American soldiers and of Kennedy-
    there was reason Jacqueline Kennedy held to that idea until she died .

    • Agree: anarchyst
  33. nsa says:

    Yesterday, our hero Trump was photoed holding hands with a dirty unshaven saud goatherder…to show solidarity with the perps who knocked down the twin towers. At least he had the sense to hold the eating hand, and not the left butthole wiping hand. Smart guy, that Trump…….

    • Replies: @Sam J.
    , @Old Codger
  34. @BB753

    Didn’t all the agencies sign on to the accusations of Russian election hacking?

    • Replies: @BB753
  35. Sean says:

    I am constrained to mention certain facts.

    1) Eisenhower was no far sighted statesman, he was the nut who thought nuclear threats would work (because they had seemed to in the Korean impasse and proposed (JFK took up the idea with modification) of ( sort of) giving the Germans nuclear weapons:
    And that is what caused the Soviets to go ape and seemed to almost make the cold war hot: Russian fear of Germany.

    2)As the article put it , Kennedy disliked the CIA bungling the overthrow of Castro, and their failure to get a resistance movement going. He had no comprehension of how difficult Operation Mongoose was on a island, and the difficulties faced by Landsdale and the CIA But there is no evidence that he disapproved of what the CIA were doing in principle. While it’s true that Kennedy resolved the Cuba crisis; he, rather than the Joint Chiefs had done so much to provoke it. Kennedy never made any statement, or hint, about withdrawing from Vietnam without victory .

    The above three points suggest your method of pronouncing on the objective that he assassination of JFK was intended to accomplish without mentioning how it was done is no less fallible than claiming the goal the assassination was designed to achieve is undeterminable, and concentrating on the physical impossibility of it being one man with a rifle who fired at Kennedy (as the noted academic authority on skepticism Professor Popkin did ).

    If he was not deterred by what would likely become of him after opening firing and revealing his presence to the presidential bodyguard detail, a Castro supporting

    Texan ex Marine rifleman

    with a grievance against the openly anti Castro Kennedy and job in a building directly on his presidential motorcade route in Dallas would have had the motive for an attempted at the assassination of Kennedy with, on the face of it, a non-trivial possibility of success. The Soviets said Oswald attempted suicide in the USSR, and he was caught with an unauthorised deringer in the Marines. So he was a borderline type, someone not afaid to take risks In the event the Secret Service didn’t use their guns during the shooting, but if they recognised the first shot and immediately opened fire, even just into the air, it would have quite possible put the shooters aim off.

    Now that hardly proves that the Secret Service facilitated the assassination. I suppose it would be possible to construct a motive for the Secret Service killing Kennedy and add another to Popkin’s list of possible motives, but is that line of reasoning more credible that to assume that the motive is obvious?

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Sam J.
  36. @WorkingClass

    Where does the constitution enumerate the powers of the deep state? The entire federal government is illegal. Illegitimate.

    We have been under control of avaricious despots since the adoption of the Constitution.

    The Constitution created a ruling class.

    It serves the aristocracy, not the people.

    It was never put before the people for ratification.

  37. KenH says:

    You should also check out the book Final Judgement by the late Michael Collins Piper. He presents a strong circumstantial case that Israel and members of American Jewry were central to the JFK assassination stemming from JFK’s strident opposition to their nuclear weapons program.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  38. Anonymous [AKA "bea"] says:

    the JFK murder has long been solved

    and the man who fired the kill-shot from the grassy knoll was paroled in May 2016 ( IDOC number = N14006 )

    • Replies: @KenH
  39. KenH says:

    You got it wrong. Kalid Sheikh Mohammed confessed to being killer of JFK. If not for waterboarding the mystery of the JFK assassination would never have been solved.

    • Replies: @Alden
  40. KenH says:

    Although Kennedy was elected in 1960 as a Cold Warrior, he moved away from a hardline stance almost immediately after being elected.

    Trump was elected in 2017 as a non-interventionist and American firster, but is now buying in to elements of the neoconservative worldview and foreign policy which holds that every nation not in NATO or named Israel is a mortal enemy who must be dealt with through economic sanctions, general threats and threats of war.

    The fact that little Billy Kristol prefers the unelected “Deep State” to the Trump state tells me that the former is likely comprised of people who are racially similar to Billy and whose presence is highly disproportionate to their percentage (2.5%) of the general U.S. population. Strangely, the machinations of the American Deep State never seems to damage the vital interests of Israel or of American Jewry. In fact, just the opposite in many cases.

  41. Sparkon says:

    with a grievance against the openly anti Castro Kennedy and job in a building directly on his presidential motorcade route in Dallas would have had the motive for an attempted at the assassination of Kennedy with, on the face of it, a non-trivial possibility of success.

    Your conjectures do not stand up to logical scrutiny.

    Anyone who had the kind political grievance against “anti Castro Kennedy,” that you claim was the motive for Oswald to shoot the president, would not claim to be a “patsy” after being arrested for doing the deed.

    It does not compute.

    So too with Oswald, the “Texas ex Marine Rifleman” up in that 6th floor Texas School Book Depository sniper’s nest, apparently so confident–might we even say cocky–of his shooting skills, even with the rickety POS Manlicher-Carcano and its misaligined scope, that he passed up the easy shots he might have taken at Kennedy, and opted instead for the difficult ones?

    Non-trival chance of success, or not, it does not compute.

    After turning from Main onto Houston, Kennedy’s motorcade was moving directly toward the TSBD, which route offered a direct, head-on shot at Kennedy.

    But that didn’t happen, and so the entire 6th floor sniper’s nest hypothesis falls to pieces.

    Oswald was said to have admired Kennedy, so any motive is questionable, set-up, sheep-dip. showpieces like passing out “Hands-off Cuba” leaflets notwithstanding.

    • Replies: @Sean
  42. Sam J. says:

    Trump can take away their security clearances. This is powerful tool. Without security clearances they on the outside.

  43. Sam J. says:

    “…to show solidarity with the perps who knocked down the twin towers…”

    Wrong the Jews are responsible for 9-11. Building 7 fell the same speed as a rock dropped in mid-air for roughly 108. Meaning the resistance to falling was the same as the rock, meaning that the only thing holding up building 7 was “air”. We all know that’s not true so the reality is the bottom was demoed out from under it.

  44. Sam J. says:

    You don’t think the Secret Service had anything to do with Kennedy’s assassination? Well here’s the smoking gun.

    This is at the turn where Kennedy went down the road and was shot. Notice around :25 the agent is holding onto the back of the limo. There’s a trunk hand hold handle there and a step on the bumper. They normally stand on the bumper step, hold on to the trunk handle and ride there to stop shots from the rear. At :28 or so the agent is told to move away from his normal riding position. See how at :30 he waves his arms in a,”what’s going on” motion. Right after this Kennedy was shot. What does that tell you?

    A great series on the assassination is “Evidence of Revision” a video made by a guy who collected videos, TV broadcast and what else he could find on the assassination. It’s like 6 videos long and every single bit of it is real time video that he adds no commentary. He just shows you what people said that was recorded on video. If you want to know more about the Kennedy assassination it’s invaluable as there’s no explanations or people telling you what went on just video of the events as they unfolded.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Anonymous
  45. Sam J. says:

    “… Final Judgement by the late Michael Collins Pipe…”

    Agreed. Great book.

  46. After years of studying the JFK case, I picked up a copy of Don Delillo’s novel “Libra” and read it. It was one of the best possible accounts of Oswald’s involvement and how it all actually went down. I highly recommend it.

  47. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    NeoConservatives, authors of PNAC (Project For a New American Century) are a lethal parasite contaminating the American bloodstream. They should all be purged from any institution having to do with our government b/c they are traitors & war criminals. If Trump isn’t able to bring these Fascist thugs to heel, it will never happen.

  48. Joe Wong says:

    The minute Donald Trump moved into the White House, he moved into the box, he cannot think “outside the box.” Donald Trump needs to set up a new commander-in-chief command and control center in where his strongest support is if he is as smart as he claims and tries to do what he campaigned.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  49. Joe Wong says:

    Donald Tump cannot drain the swamp while he is deep to his throat in the swamp, Donald Trump only can drain the swamp by operating equipment outside of the swamp.

    If Donald Trump is educated, he should know all major changes come from outside, so he cannot make major changes while he is within Washington.

  50. Joe Wong says:
    @Joe Wong

    Donald Tump needs to learn from Mao, when Mao engineered Culture Revolution he was not in the capital, Beijing; draining the deep state of the USA swamp in the Washington is no smaller project than the Culture Revolution, in fact Trump and Mao are in the same position, trying to clean up the corrupted establishment while he is isolated by the establishment.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  51. bluedog says:
    @Joe Wong

    Trump will do as he was elected to do, and that’s to serve the corporate state ,doubt it just look at his budget cuts to education cuts to this cuts to that including corporate tax, while increasing the defense some \$56 billions and adding billions more to the separate services and most of this due to outsourcing will end up in the pockets of the corporations.
    Meanwhile most states will have to increase taxes to make up the shortfalls in education and health, the same as what happened under Reagan and his tax break for the working class, which ended up as the largest tax increase in history, as people saw your property taxes go thru the roof, because he the simply cut the Federal money to both the states and the cities .No its going to be a lovely ride and one that is probably long overdue..

    • Replies: @prusmc
  52. Agent76 says:


    Shortly after noon on November 22, 1963, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated as he rode in a motorcade through Dealey Plaza in downtown Dallas, Texas. It’s been 53 years since the assassination. Since that fateful November day, conspiracy theories have abounded. However, when we sift through the disinformation and look at only verifiable facts, we find no need for theories — as the conspiracy was a fact.

  53. I knew enough about the issues with respect to the JFK assassination by reading several books throughout the years but was re-introduced to the issue when a good friend gave me a book which the authoress had signed for him namely Me And Lee: How I Came To Know, Love and Lose Lee Harvey Oswald by a Judyth Vary Baker.

    My friend, who though very well read and intelligent but will always will be a sucker for hype and the prevailing dialogue exclaimed to me ” you have to read this, it will blow your mind etc”. Well it was a handsome looking book and of course the general topic interested me so I gave it a go.

    I wasn’t too long into it before I realized that this was a bullshit account using all the old publishers tricks like accentuating the provable parts before sliding into the “interesting” material. Anyway, it turned out to be a text-book classic farrago.

    Knowing that I would eventually be discussing this book with my friend I decided to look into this author and found myself slowly immersed into the JFK conspiracy community. What an eye-opener!

    Hundreds of authors of equal stature +- of Jeff Morley, who the author of this piece seems to present as some kind of singular authority. Thousands more unpublished bloggers. Passionate and mean, dogmatic and some only mildly objective. They have been at this for a long time and EVERY conceivable angle has been debated. Witnesses debunked. Some even believed the Warren Commission.

    Needless to say for a fool like Vary Baker to enter into this cage with a ridiculous premise of being Oswald’s mistress when some of the people have accounted for every minute of Oswald’s life for years was a fool’s errand. I read a 3000+ post on a site called EducationForum for sheer entertainment. To my surprise she defended her story with the fierceness of a mamma bear defending her cubs. It became obvious that she was mentally disturbed (pseudologia fantastica) but that didn’t prevent her from attracting a small coven of equally stubborn supporters who would sooner die than take one step back when the more logical and intelligent posters presented irrefutable evidence of her inherently absurd claim.

    Anyways by some form of serendipity I learned very much about JFK, human behavior when dealing with important historical issues and that the mob will always be the mob.

    Releasing 1000 plus files will just create another Tower of Babble (pun intended). 911 and JFK will never be solved. The big boys know that too so the next big ‘event’ may be a real doozie.

    My two pesos-

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Sean
    , @pogohere
  54. BB753 says:
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    Didn’t that happen during the elections? I understand that now there’s more internal dissent with a new administration in charge. Well, more or less in charge.

  55. Sean says:

    Anyone who had the kind political grievance against “anti Castro Kennedy,” that you claim was the motive for Oswald to shoot the president, would not claim to be a “patsy” after being arrested for doing the deed.

    Some people might be , but I doubt I he had the stability that would make it possible to determine what you suggest. From him having fled the scene and shortly thereafter shot a policeman who noticed his odd behaviour in the near empty streets, before saying inn custody he was a patsy I conclude that his actions were not that of a innocent man. In the Marines Oswald tipped a beer over an NCO’s head and had an unauthorised pistol. While he was not a keen on getting caught inasmuch he did try to make a getaway (leaving the building by a side entrance before the police sealed it), Oswald must have realised they odds were he would not get away.

    After turning from Main onto Houston, Kennedy’s motorcade was moving directly toward the TSBD, which route offered a direct, head-on shot at Kennedy.

    Oswald wanted to kill Kennedy. He would have been in the line of sight of thus exposed to fire from the Secret Service around Kennedy if he went for the direct head on shot, and would be unlikely to have had time for a second with dozens of agent shooting at him. Familiar with firearms from a young age, Oswald was a trained infantryman (rated “Sharpshooter” according to his best result on a rifle marksmanship test. He had a rifle so powerful that it was used for destroying elephants, practiced with it, and he was at the upper bound of bright-average IQ range. He did not have time to zero the gun he brought broken down and assembled in the building, so was surely correct to not assume only one shot would be required .

    • Replies: @bluedog
  56. utu says:
    @Timur The Lame

    “Hundreds of authors of equal stature +- of Jeff Morley, who the author of this piece seems to present as some kind of singular authority. Thousands more unpublished bloggers. Passionate and mean, dogmatic and some only mildly objective. They have been at this for a long time and EVERY conceivable angle has been debated. Witnesses debunked. Some even believed the Warren Commission.”

    Even if the truth was revealed nobody will believe it and there will be no way to prove it. The truth will be obscured for ever. However I recommend watching the “Evidence of Revision” video.

  57. Sean says:
    @Sam J.

    Kennedy had the most to do with it. After agitated objections from the Secret Service, he overruled them and demanded the clear canopy of the limo be left off, and they were furious with him for exposing himself to an assassin’s bullet . He managed to get himself shot dead as a result, but unlikely things happened to Kennedy, like when the supposedly fast and maneuverable MTB he commanded was rammed by a much larger .destroyer. Lady Luck was his squeeze for a time, but she had grown tired of Kennedy’s recklessness, and finally he paid the full price. As Gore Vidal said it was perhaps as well he died when he did. Anyway the main thing is that Kennedy was the John McCain of his time, not a threat to warmongers.

    • Replies: @dcite
  58. bluedog says:

    Nonsense for Oswald was CIA which is well known fact, and now the question I’m sure you don’t have a clue as to its answer ,how come all of the files on the killing/murder of JFK are sealed until 2029 which should even give you a faint glimmer that there’s a skunk in the wood pile somewhere.And another fact one of many that your wrong on is that Oswald didn’t hate JFK but in fact admired him.Strange but 60 minutes was going to do a segment on OSWALDS GIRLFRIEND IN New Orleans,they vetted her every which way but loose and determined that she was telling the truth, but just before it was to be aired the order came from on high CAN IT.
    IF you want to know the truth contact the CIA FBI Secret Service and the JC’S for they are the guilty parties,and of course on that day we became just another banana republic and have been heading down the crapper ever since.

    • Replies: @Robbie-1
  59. Sean says:

    Oswald did not have much of a sex life in the US but in Russia he got more ass than a toilet seat. His wiidow banged every FBI agent she was left alone with.

    Kennedy was the one who had women all over the place, sometimes pouncing on virgin teenager interns without so much as a by your leave. He got one to give his pal a blow job and dumped her when she refused to blow Ted.

    The Secret Service agents who knew what he was like, said they would never have left him alone with their daughter under any circumstances. Kennedy was all for banana republics, he was the counterinsurgency and destabilise popular regimes commander in chief. It is somehow rather fitting that Oswald clipped El Presidente on his lunch break.

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Robbie-1
  60. Sparkon says:

    Amazing Tales of the Mysterious & Fantastic Elephant Destroying Manlicher-Carcano

    This unpaid money order is the key to understanding that the FBI and Warren Commission knowingly created the hoax that Oswald purchased a mail order rifle from Klein’s that he used to assassinate President Kennedy. This unpaid money order is one of the most important “smoking guns” found in the Warren Volumes. It proves that Oswald did not purchase a mail order rifle, and it shows that both the FBI and Warren Commission knew that this unpaid money order had never been cashed or deposited.
    Neither the FBI nor Warren Commission explained why Oswald ordered a 36″ rifle, which Klein’s had in stock, but received a 40″ rifle, which Klein’s did not have in stock. They never explained how Lee HARVEY Oswald was able to pick up a package from the post office that was addressed to “A. Hidell.” According to postal regulations a letter or parcel addressed to anyone other than the box hold would be stamped “addressee unknown” and “returned to sender.”

    • Replies: @bluedog
  61. bluedog says:

    Lol and your an idiot..

  62. bluedog says:

    And to top it off Nixon was caught on tape as saying that it was the greatest hoax ever played on the American people..

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  63. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Please do not overlook wealthy and influential Jews and their lobbying organizations as part of the Deep State.

    • Replies: @Olorin
  64. @WorkingClass

    Lyndon Johnson was one of the 3 biggest traitors in the office of President in the 20th century. Not only did he escalate Vietnam, he rammed through the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and also oversaw the change in immigration policy from Whites to anything but White. He had no humanity. One of my favorite comments of his was “I’ll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years.” Being from Texas he was familiar with blacks. Hopefully the US will not last until 2164.

    • Agree: BB753
  65. The author’s position that liberals were much more aware of how the Military/Industrial complex was behind the JFK assassination makes one wonder how current libtards are unable to see that they are also behind claims that Trump is “racist” or is in the pocket of the Russians. Both are so demonstrably false that one wonders how these people remember their own name.

  66. @bluedog

    And to top it off Nixon was caught on tape as saying that it was the greatest hoax ever played on the American people..


    “Why don’t we play the game a bit smarter for a change. They pinned the assassination of Kennedy on the right wing, the Birchers. It was done by a Communist and it was the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated. And I respectfully suggest, can’t we pin this on one of theirs?”
    – from a taped conversation with aide Chuck Colson on the day of the 1972 shooting of George Wallace. This quote has been misinterpreted to suggest that Nixon called the Warren Commission a “hoax.”

  67. Anonymous [AKA "wlawlor"] says:

    The Israelis had a very good reason to murder JFK. Their secretive activities in Dimona , even now not fully acknowedged, was challenged by JFK. Not wanting the spread of nukes in the ME was important in balancing the interests of all. But the zionists who now control all American politicians desired Eretz Israel. Nothing will stand in their way. False flags will continue to goad the lumbering giant America into doing its bidding. Sharon publicly stated….” we control Americ and they know it”. AIPAC vets anyone who desires public office. Our congress is nothing more than an extension of the Knesset.

    • Replies: @utu
  68. Olorin says:

    For an interesting time use as an online search term:

    Jews are welcome in China

  69. Olorin says:

    Also heavily disproportionate support for NGOs through “philanthropic foundations.”

  70. @utu

    I think you are onto the real reason for JFK’s murder UTU. That and his attempts to shut down, or bypass, the Federal Reserve. George HW Bush was neck deep in JFK’s cover-up. Veteran’s Today later proved that Bush illegally shipped nuclear pits to Israel after Dimonana went bad. From that early public spectacle of JFK to Sept 11, to the current constant shock of Trump (who would long be gone of the CIA was actually opposed to him) we see the hand of the aparteid nation, who gets raw spying intel before the NSA does, hand in things. Anyone offering even cursury help to these Deep State monsters just to get rid of their monster Trump begs for an Islam invasion and WW3. Maybe both.

  71. dcite says:

    Gore Vidal said it was perhaps as well he died when he did. Anyway the main thing is that Kennedy was the John McCain of his time, not a threat to warmongers.

    You really come up with some baffling statements. Gore Vidal, well known author and professional homosexual, cared little about feelings normal to the run of humanity, although he could write a good facsimile. I’m sure JFK’s children would not agree with that opinion; aside from the personal, he had ideas and plans which would have improved the country not led it into never ending war. Yeah, I know that’s controversial but it’s more likely than Vidal’s predictions. Vidal hated the Kennedys. Way too hetero for him, although he was fond of his one-time step sister.
    As for JFK being the McCain of his time” what? Kennedy was a war hero. He actually hauled men to safety who would have died otherwise. He was congruent in his words and actions as far as being pro-American. He bears less resemblance to McCain than almost any pol I can think of.

    • Replies: @Sean
  72. @Sam J.

    I like your letter Sam J, and agree with it, I feel Trump has no intention of draining DC’s swamp. He knows who gives him the pretense of being rich. He will never turn against them. He will give Israel everything they want or he dies. All the drama see between the CIA and its media marching in lockstep against Trump is only to shove him toward their desired directions. We see daily he is doing that. Stirring up bigger wars in Syria, Yemen, The Ukraine, likely invading Russia, war in the South China Sea, North Korea, Pak/India and more. War on our elderly, chidlren and poor. Trump is reversing every campaign promise so we simply see the end result of propping up such a feckless puppet. If he won’t dance Pence will. Trump is the perfect mouthpiece of the Kosha Nostra, those who have ruled the US behind the scenes for decades, who now feel safe to rule openly. Trump is the perfect fall guy for long term economic policies that are about to crash the US, and the world, and the perfect fall guy for their desired WW3. They seek a great reset and pretend their messiah will come. They certainly didn’t want that landing on Hillary’s watch. She did her part flooding the world with refugees over her bloody Libya regime change, and hubby did his part with WTO and selling top secrets to China.

  73. pj says:

    Not one mention of Israel in the entire article? What a tool!!!

  74. utu says:

    Cui bono? Israel’s nuclear program benefited the most from JFK’s death. If JFK lived through his 2nd term it is very likely that Israel could not built the nuclear weapons.

    • Replies: @Robbie-1
  75. Sean says:

    For extremely heroic conduct as Commanding Officer of Motor Torpedo Boat 109 following the collision and sinking of that vessel in the Pacific War area on August 1–2, 1943. Unmindful of personal danger, Lieutenant (then Lieutenant, Junior Grade) Kennedy unhesitatingly braved the difficulties and hazards of darkness to direct rescue operations, swimming many hours to secure aid and food after he had succeeded in getting his crew ashore. His outstanding courage, endurance and leadership contributed to the saving of several lives and were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

    JFK said of his heroics(“It was involuntary, they sank my boat”. His little torpedo boat was caught idling and rammed , it was the crew who paid and JFK did no more than expected of an officer subsequent to losing the boat (compare Oswald who, whatever you think of him, showed formidable spit seconfd decisiveness and resolve when confronted by Tippet).

    And if you still think JFK was a “war hero” consider: he did not get a combat medal for the incident in which his boat was sunk.. He was a stupider and better looking version of jet crashing sexual predator of missing POWs wives John McCain, with the same proclivity for pouncing on women he was left alone with. Chasing women was a full time job for JKF his fellow officers like girls too, but with him it was a career. He got much worse when he got effective treatment for his Addison’s disease (which he was hospitalised for and lied about). The treatment involved cortisone (which can produce megalomania*) and he also got testosterone shots–surely he very last thing he needed. The JFK that resulted was physically and mentally puffed up like a bullfrog.Kennedy ruptured himself shortly before Dallas (when he and first friend Dave Powers spent a night banging a dozen German air stewardesses at a pool party, doing it so hard the police guards on the perimeter of the ranch property thought the noises the Teutonic tarts were making were from coyotes ). Anyway Oswald , who needed a miss to get his eye in had it made easier by Kennedy, who had heard the shot, being in a full body brace and unable to dodge the bullet. KFK was too immature, there was always something James Bondish about his image and he believed it .

    Fifty-six years ago, President Kennedy entered office eager to show how weak his predecessor, Eisenhower, had been and how brave and decisive he himself was. He sent his troops to Vietnam, and the rest is history. ,,, the outcome was to open the gates of hell, as the Koran put it.

    Lyndon B. Johnson, who had suffered a near-fatal heart attack in 1955, was more conservative. He listened to people like Clark Clifford Good thing Johnson became president when he did.

    Moreover, it would be necessary to claim that Sirhan Sirhan, (or Thane Caesar) was also the tool of a conspiracy, and left alive to talk about it. But again, RFK (a pugnacious apparent sufferer from short man syndrome) was if anything more confrontational in relation to communist powers than his brother, who let us not forget had sent troops to Vietnam and never gave any indication of withdrawing without victory.

    In the end we are left with a US run by putative wise men who were anything but, and intellectual failure by that elite rather that suicidal engagement in ww3 plots (Washington is not Idaho).

    • Troll: bluedog
  76. @utu

    According to the late Michael Collins Piper, author of “Final Judgement”, the two primary reasons for assassinating John F. Kennedy were his June, 1963 Executive Order dissolving the Rothschild Central Bank aka “Federal Reserve” and returning the printing/coining of money to Congress via the Treasury, and his row with the Israeli leadership over his demands to open the Dimona Nuclear Facility (located in the Negev Desert) to IAEA inspectors. Also mentioned, of course, were his refusal to support the CIA and Pentagon’s use of Cuban exiles in their Bay of Pig’s invasion of Cuba and his plan to withdraw some 1,000+ military advisors from Vietnam.
    Altogether, Piper’s book on the JFK assassination exposed most – if not all – of the Deep State’s involvement in the planning and execution of the 35th POTUS. The myth of Lee Harvey Olswald’s being the lone assassin has long been debunked.

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Sean
  77. bluedog says:
    @Eileen Kuch

    Another very good and well documented book is by James W. Douglass “JFK and The Unspeakable” why he died and why it matters,bringing forth much information from eye witness’s who were afraid to speak before due to the number who had already been killed..

  78. prusmc says:


    Trump did not cut Department of Ed, HUD, EPA, DOE, ATFE, BLM and other Agencies and Activities enough. True Defense should not have received increases nor should Homeland Security. Why should states and locality need to increases taxes because of Federal fund cuts? Why not do what a family of working folks do and live within their means?

    • Replies: @bluedog
  79. bluedog says:

    Perhaps the 100,000,000 un-employed could answer that better than I, those living on the street those in poverty for that’s where the answers are ,while the neighbor next door pays the unheard of wage of \$8.50 an hour while applying for ever more subsides from the government…

  80. Sean says:
    @Eileen Kuch

    The myth of Lee Harvey Olswald’s being the lone assassin has long been debunked.

    Hardly more plausible that others were in on it, because one person can keep a secret batter than many. And why would Oswald need help. Though a sympathetic left wing contact he had a job in the book depository building. More than one shooter sounds like a recipient for confusion, because they surely could not fire at the same instant or know who was to fire first, Follow up shots would be vastly more difficult given the dozens of secret service and cops in the street.

    All he needed was a impetus to defend communism in Cuba and the instict to kill. He had his record of threats to kill (mother at 12 years old when he brandished a knife, and assaults on Marine NCO and anti Castro Cubans) Oswald was a far more capable presidential assassin that his first victim that day was a president. LHO has been underrated for years, he could be unstable and foolish , but so could Audie Murphy. ( also a undersized Texan with an absent father). Oswald was pro Cuba and the CIA under Kennedy was actually trying have Castro assassinated. No secret to Oswald that Castro was under threat. Oswald, who had little fear for himself (suicide attempt) was about the last person on earth anyone would want toying with the idea of killing them. No he had been given a motive to kill Kennedy. And then the motorcade route gifted him the chance to decide to do it.

  81. Sparkon says:

    Agents go on Record:
    • JFK did not order Secret Service off Dallas limousine
    • Kennedy never ordered security stand-down or bubble-top removal
    • Secret Service ignored advance warnings of threats
    • Presidential security compromised for fatal motorcade

    Thanks to the courage of former Secret Service agents who told the truth for the record, defenders of the discredited Warren Commission theory of the assassination no longer can accuse JFK of complicity in his own murder. One fact remains clear: President Kennedy did not seal his own fate by ordering his guards to stand down.

    Several key Secret Service protocols were violated in Dallas on November 22nd. The speed at which the President’s open-top limousine was cruising the streets of Dallas was dangerously slow and the sharp angle at which the car turned on Houston and Elm was in stark violation of Secret Service protocols.
    Most egregiously, there were no Secret Service agents riding on the back of the limousine or running to the left and right of the vehicle, leaving the President completely exposed to potential gunfire. Even more shocking, video footage has surfaced showing the Secret Service agents being told to stand down.

    • Replies: @Robbie-1
  82. @Sean

    Read more, write less. Much, much less!

    • Agree: bluedog
  83. bluedog says:

    Nice try but there is simply to many well documented books and records out there to debunk your off the cuff post, nor any mention of his work in N.O. and his work in the CIA lab at Tulane Unv., where Dr. Mary Martin the top cancer researcher in the country (Dr. Mary Martins Monkey) a very good book was trying to come up a cancer they could give Castro using gene splitting.Nice try try again…

  84. @Sean

    The myth of Lee Harvey Olswald’s being the lone assassin has long been debunked.

    ‘…Hardly more plausible that others were in on it, because one person can keep a secret batter than many.”

    Especially if “one person” is dead!

    • Replies: @Sean
  85. Robbie-1 says: • Website

    #62 Bluedog, you have the wrong date on the release of 3,603 documents withheld from public view since 1964, still in the basement of the National Archives. It is NOT scheduled for release in 2029, but on Oct. 26 THIS YEAR, the 25th year since the 1992 JFK Records Act was signed on Oct. 26 that year. Outside of that mistake, you are correct on your other key points. Oswald DID say he liked JFK, and the nasty alliance of LBJ, with his ties to all the other national security agencies (CIA-FBI-Secret Service-Joint Chiefs in the Military) are substantiated and documented by Phillip F. Nelson’s outstanding book on LBJs corruption, scheming to be President at any cost, and mental illnesses in his life:

    “LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination” by Phillip F. Nelson (Jul. 1, 2013) pb 656pp.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  86. Robbie-1 says:

    #63 Sean, you couldn’t possibly have made any more errors and misguided, uneducated, undocumented, and crazy information that you posted if you tried. Thanks for the laughs, but please go elsewhere to post your junk “information” and screwball ramblings to others who are more gullible and swallow your guff wholesale.

  87. Robbie-1 says:

    #78 Utu, whether JFK agreed with or disagreed with Israel’s nuclear program to create a nuclear weapon is completely irrelevant in his death. JFK was killed by a DOMESTIC team of allies that had numerous reasons to want him gone. For one thing, he had the mentally ill LBJ as his VP, who was about to be OUTED by LIFE magazine the week after JFKs murder, documenting LBJs corrupt financial dealings (bribery, kickbacks, money from special interests to get a law passed in the Senate, etc.) along with his right-hand man, the Secretary of the Senate Bobby Baker. Baker was outed in the late-November/early December 1963 LIFE magazine article, while LBJs role was dropped as he was now President. The Senate’s investigation of LBJ also came to a screeching halt, becuase they didn’t want to risk having 3 Presidents within a year. The Senate quietly dropped LBJ in its investigation of bribery and financial crimes in documenting Bobby Baker. Baker lost his job, was later indicted, found guilty, and jailed for years.

    Phillip F. Nelson wrote a scintillating book documenting LBJs sordid life history since he was a little boy, bragging to his little friends that he would someday become President. He was the mastermind of murdering JFK, not Oswald nor anyone else outside of LBJ and his crony allies in the CIA-Military-FBI/J.E. Hoover-Mob-Big Oil friends.

    “LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination” by Phillip F. Nelson (Jul. 1, 2013) pb 656pp.

    • Replies: @utu
  88. Robbie-1 says:

    #86 Sparkon, that was an excellent short summary on the failures of the Secret Service to protect the President! Clint Hill was out drinking (as other S.S. agents were) as late as 3am in Fort Worth on the morning of Nov. 22, before the short trip to Dallas. That’s a clear violation of rules, and he and the others should have been at least reprimanded, if not fired. The fact that none of those agents were disciplined in any way, tells volumes on the entire agency at fault.

    Hill, to his credit, did ride on the back of the limo using the handles and floorboard area when in the downtown area, but got off the limo when near the end of the Main Street section of the trip; this is shown in still pics. If he had only stayed on for another half-mile, he would have easily covered JFK right after the first shot (missed), or second fired in the worst case, and saved him.

    The other violations in slowing the limo down to only 11 mph and making that hairpin 120-degree turn from Houston to Elm Street are two more violations of the rules.

    No windows were nailed down shut in Dallas, as they were in Tampa, FL just 4 days earlier (Nov. 18), in any high office buildings. Roy Kellerman on the passenger side, did not react after the first two non-fatal shots (at least 3 fired before the fatal head shot, with the first one missing the limo, hitting a curb and a piece of it wounding James T. Tague slightly in the cheek, drawing blood), and driver Bill Greer disobeyed Kellerman’s orders to “get out of line (of fire)” after the first two shots. Greer inextricably and unexcusably not only did NOT step on the gas, but actually BRAKED the limo almost to a full stop, proven because the brake lights lit!

    He looked back at Kennedy at least twice BEFORE the fatal head shot, until only after the shot at frame #313 on the Z-film, did he finally step on the gas and head for the hospital. Later, this fellow Irishman apologized to Jacqueline for not getting out of there faster. Kellerman and Greer also escaped any discipline for their incredible lack of action when they could have at least tried to do something in their power to save the President–which is their sworn duty, at all cost to them–including their lives.

    Emory Roberts, who ordered agent Henry Rybka off the right side of the limo (who would have been the closest agent and could have saved JFK), at Love Field in Dallas, is also widely seen on a number of YouTube videos:

    “JFK Conspiracy: Did Secret Service Stand Down?” by Paul J. Watson
    (uploaded on Nov. 22, 2013; 50th anniversary; 11:31)

    “JFK secret service stand down” by lathamburdette (uploaded on Dec. 19, 2007; 02:55)

    “JFK assassination Secret Service Standdown Rybka-Kennedy Detail” by Vince Palamara (uploaded on Jun. 23, 2011; 01:09).
    “Secret Service Agents William Greer & Roy Kellerman: Great Job Boys!”
    by Zapdunga (Dec. 19, 2016; 0:58)

    “LBJ and the Kennedy Killing” by James T. Tague (pb Oct. 22, 2013)

  89. bluedog says:

    Thank you for the correction..

    • Replies: @Robbie-1
  90. Robbie-1 says:

    #94 bluedog, No problem. Always glad to tell people the date of Oct. 26 is coming up fast, and we’ll see what Trump does to either go along with the CIA-FBI creeps, or finally stand up to them and let everything out of there for the world to see their dirty laundry in what they did in this 53-year murder case of a coup d’etat by LBJ and his CIA-FBI-Mafia-Big Oil allies.

  91. bluedog says:

    Interesting for I think your recent post is the first time I have seen one place big oil as one of the culprits, which it was which makes me wonder if old Bush was one of those involved with the rest of the oil barons in Texas..

    • Replies: @Robbie-1
  92. Robbie-1 says:

    #96 bluedog, is the Pope a Catholic? Of course, 92-yr-old George H.W. Bush was involved. There is a pic of someone who is about 39 (Bush’s age in Nov. 1963) who looks very close to him in Dealey Plaza. The only two people in the entire U.S. who just could not remember where they were when they heard the shocking news was Richard Nixon and CIA-agent George H.W. Bush.
    Nixon was in Dallas that morning for a Pepsi convention, while lying-George insists he can’t recall. The connection of the elder Bush to JFKs murder is as close to certain as a sure thing you can bet on at the horse races. Nixon, LBJ, J. Edgar Hoover (head of the FBI), and LBJ mistress Madeleine Duncan Brown, who says they were at oil baron Clint Murchison’s home in North Dallas the night before (Thu. Nov. 21) going over the ‘big event’, their term for the coup d’etat plan for the next day.

    Brown insists that LBJ said to her in a confession of what was to come, “After tomorrow, those SOB’s” will [would] never embarrass me [him] again. That’s no threat, that’s a promise.”

    “LBJ’s Mistress Blows Whistle On JFK Assassination” (uploaded on Nov. 22, 2006)

    It’s a jaw-dropping deposition and it’s the biggest JFK smoking gun there is – despite the fact that it has received little media attention.

    Have you ever once heard any big media source even once mention the name of Madeleine Duncan Brown as an LBJ mistress? Of course not, for it would have destroyed LBJs career, not even counting all the other corrupt and evil things (ex, hired a personal hit man, Malcolm Wallace–who is alleged to have killed 7 people for LBJ to further his career, not counting JFK which would be #8) LBJ has done in his life to gain his boyhood goal: become President at all costs..

    And George H.W. Bush is right there with him (figuratively) in that Texas transplant (born in Mass., lived in Conn.), before moving to the Lone Star State in the oil industry before becoming a CIA agent in the early 1960s (? or late-1950s), despite his protestations to the contrary. Became CIA director in 1975 under Pres. Ford. Ever hear of a CIA director who never was in the CIA? That’s what Bush was, supposedly, if you believe his lying mouth in denying ever being in that organization until he became director in 1975.

    These are extremely evil people, despite what the lying, scummy media may want you to believe they were, and you can throw in Nixon, J.E. Hoover, plus George W. Bush and his VP, Dick Cheney. Power-hungry, hating Russia because it (and Putin) won’t give in to America’s world-dominating-to-be Empire drive, and loving war, also for their personal monetary gain, they are the scumbag types that Trump has to go up against.

    G. HW Bush in his wheelchair, made the well-known, killing ‘throat-cut’ slash, captured by a media camera, against Trump at the Republican convention, if you saw it, you won’t forget how chilling it was to see the raw hatred, murderous intent and desire to destroy (politically, if not personally) Trump that the establishment Republican crony capitalists have demonstrated numerous times since last July, and more so since his election.

  93. utu says:

    “whether JFK agreed with or disagreed with Israel’s nuclear program to create a nuclear weapon is completely irrelevant in his death.”

    How do you know it? Because you have read one book that point to LBJ? And why this one and not hundreds of other with different theories? There is a book that Onassis did. Why not Onassis?

    The field of JFK assassination conspiracy is full of nuts like you who think they know.

  94. Sean says:

    Oswald’s mentality is hardly an enigma. He left a message with an FBI agent that according to the agent’s receptionist ended with a threat to blow up the FBI building. Oswald used the same rifle he later used on Kennedy to try and kill General Walker after he spoke out against Kennedy race policies. Incidentally, as his big brother’s Attorney General, Robert Kennedy had tried to have Walker confined for 3 months in an insane asylum, surely an early sign of what to expect as Kennedy’s presidency played out- the pathologizing of dissent.

    Immediately after Kennedy was shot, Oswald fled the scene and went back home and got a 38 revolver (which had been dispatched to him under a fake name along with the famous rifle) and when stopped by a policeman, Oswald instantly shot him dead . Not exactly the actions of an innocent man, a low ranking conspirator, or a patsy. For the avoidance of doubt let me add that after shooting Tippit dead in the street in broad daylight and calling him a ‘dumb cop’, perma-smirking Lee Harvey took the time to eject the spent cartridges and reload his revolver. All he needed to be a lone gunman was balls and bullets, and he had plenty of both.

  95. bluedog says:

    I think your confused or else purposing mudding the water true Oswald did leave a letter with the F.B.I. receptionist which was simply signed Lee, but the letter itself the important part was warning of the attempt on the life of J.F.K. As far as purposing standing there reloading the spent shell so that everyone could see him or was it his double making sure he was seen and also where he went.As the one poster told you read more post less that way you won’t look so foolish…

  96. bluedog says:

    Hmm maybe and maybe not for J.F.K. had come down hard on the Jews in Israel something they aren’t use to, as the attack on the Liberty shows and LBJ’S remark that he wanted that G,D, ship on the bottom of the ocean I presume with all the American seamen on board,and of course that’s the problem everything is labeled a conspiracy that way the truth is always hidden from the public eye..

  97. bluedog says:

    Why didn’t you post everything on General Walker who had a very checked past being chewed out by the Joint Chiefs and again by Ike until finally he crossed the line and was fired by JFK, and as far as who tried to kill Walker they don’t have a clue, about the only truth in your post is that Robert Kennedy did try to have him committed for a mental evaluation which from his past behavior was long overdue…

    • Replies: @Sean
  98. @utu

    In the matter of conspiracies such as this (nine 11 etc) it is usually helpful to ask, who had the means to bypass the established layers of security? Who had the means to control the event itself and effect both the act and an escape? Who had the means to control the subsequent investigation and effect an enduring cover-up?

    Certainly not Onassis, nor the mob (though they could have been assigned a role) and even oilmen on their own would have difficulty controlling the judiciary and the media, ongoing to this day.

    The JFK job was from the very top and from behind the curtain.

  99. Robbie-1 says:

    #98 utu, I can turn that same question just as easily back onto you! How do YOU know it? Because you have read ONE BOOK that points to Israel?

    BTW, I have read over 20 books on JFKs murder over the past 40 years.
    Nobody else, except that ONE AUTHOR (Michael Collins Piper, 1998) has written a book accusing Israel of the murder.

    Ok, smartguy! What was Onassis’ motive, his means, and opportunity for killing JFK, that is irresistible and with concrete documentation?

    The field of JFK assassination conspiracy is full of nuts like you who think they know, but they don’t know, and haven’t read tens of books over 40 years, as I have with those authors positing many, numerous ‘guilty’ people in murdering the 35th President. But the one with the most common sense and evidence is LBJ with his key allies (ex, CIA, Military, anti-Castro Cubans, Big Oil, etc. who despised JFK for a variety of individual reasons), built-up over decades in government

    Contrast your ONE AUTHOR with at least FIVE authors documenting LBJ as the ringleader of the coup d’etat. And LBJ as VP had plenty to gain–and plenty to lose if he did NOT become President when he did. He was under investigation by the Senate for financial corruption and bribery (kickbacks, plus demands for money to get legislation through the Senate when he was President of the Senate–i.e., VP), plus an expose by LIFE magazine that was going to come out the very next week (Mon. Nov. 25) showing his corrupt financial crimes along with his right-hand man, Bobby Baker as also in on the criminal actions. Getting to be President immediately ended the Senate investigation into LBJ, removed LBJ from the expose by LIFE to include Bobby Baker only, and got LBJ his prize that he dreamed about since he was 10 years old, and bragged to his little friends that someday he would become President. JFK and then Bobby stood in his way, and at 55, he didn’t have much time to live, given his male ancestors had a history of dying young from heart disease. And he died exactly that way only 9 years later, at the relatively young age of 64 in Jan. 1973.

    Here are the FIVE different authors over a span of over 13 years, that beats one author over a span of only one year that was written way back in 1998:

    “Blood, Money, & Power: How LBJ Killed JFK” by Barr McClellan (Sep. 1, 2003) pb 400 pp.
    Original in Hardcover – September 1, 2003

    “Blood, Money, & Power: How LBJ Killed JFK” by Barr McClellan (Feb. 23, 2011) pb 464 pp.
    “Blood, Money, & Power exposes the secret, high-level conspiracy in Texas that led to President John F. Kennedy’s death and the succession of Lyndon B. Johnson as president in 1963. Attorney Barr McClellan, a former member of L.B.J.’s legal team, uses hundreds of newly released documents, including insider interviews, court papers, and the Warren Commission, to illuminate the maneuvers, payoffs, and power plays that revolved around the assassination of Kennedy and to expose L.B.J.’s involvement in the murder plot.”

    “LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination” by Phillip F. Nelson (Jul. 1, 2013) pb 656 pp.

    “The Dark Side of Lyndon Baines Johnson” by Joachim Joesten (1968 UK, Apr. 4, 2013) 396 pp.

    “LBJ and the Kennedy Killing” by James T. Tague (Oct. 22, 2013) pb 448 pp.

    “The Man Who Killed Kennedy” by Roger Stone pb, reprint ed. 480 pp. (Sep. 2, 2014)

  100. Sean says:

    The Attorney General had Walker forcibly taken to a mental institution and confined there against his will, thereby depriving him of his, civic rights, also political credibility.

    Walker warned the Kennedys were turning the US into a totalitarian state and the next thing the Kennedys used their power to treat him like he was a Soviet dissident.

    An avowed leftist killed Kennedy, and no one wanted to believe it, they still don’t.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  101. Sean says:

    According to PD Scott

    “the President was murdered by a coalition of forces inside and outside government …a synergetic performance by internal ingredients of that deep political system”.

    That means hidden forces such as the illegal CIA operations within the US and organised crime not the Trilateral commission, clownish Texas billionaire (the Hunts pissed away one of the world’s great fortune trying to corner to silver market) let alone organised American manufacturers. The trouble with Scott is he uses the appellation Deep State to cover not just the the entire political and economic system, but the whole of the country, and the CIA and even the Trilateral commission are just a spicy topping in his multi-tiered cake, because he thoses everything into the mix.

    He is wide of the mark with what trump represents, because Trump is fist and foremost anti immigration, and no part of Big Money is not in favour of more immigration. Good grief , Clinton was giving speeches about open borders, and Trump was for a wall on the border.

    Trump repents the American voters who have come to regard their interest as being negatively affected by immigration. Mass immigration impact created a political entity more powerful than the military industrial complexes or deep state. Read John Dewey on how a new “public” is generated by those affected by an issue to understand: Trump represents the little guy who wants a Big Wall, not war.

  102. bluedog says:

    Of course they don’t believe it for not everyone is insane, and of course Walker was not confined because the courts ruled it unconstitutional now I don’t know what your dog is in trying to perpetuate the debunked story that it was some lone nut working for Castro,but trust me that dog won’t hunt…

    • Replies: @Sean
  103. @Sean

    Sean, another glaring mystery:

    How was Oswald allowed to re-enter the US after defecting to the USSR _during the height of the cold war?

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Sean
    , @Alden
    , @pogohere
  104. bluedog says:

    Simple really for Oswald was working for the C.I.A. and upon his re-entry into the U.S. was met and welcomed by order of U.S. government he had betrayed.The Warren Report tells us that on the recommendation of the State Department, the Oswald’s were greeted at the dock by Spas T. Raikin, a representative of the Traveler’s Aid Society, who had extensive intelligence connections where he was introduced to George de Mohrenschildt who stated that late in 1961 he had met with the C.I.A’a J. Walton Moore who passed Oswald off on to him and the rest is history as they say..

    • Replies: @Alden
  105. Sean says:

    He offered to come back if the US dropped all charges, and the US embassy gave him the money to travel back to the US. Revilo Oliver brought that up, but no one else seems to have thought it indicative of a covert operation and indeed it seems rather silly to suggest a plan for an operation to make Oswald appear a Soviet agent would have no provision for getting him into the US without official US help.

    The Soviets had a good look at Oswald and they would know a CIA agent when they saw him, if he fooled them it could only be because his arrival in Russia was virtually unprecedented. In other words a CIA operative Oswald would have been a virtually unprecedented operation–for what purpose?

    Oswald was in the Soviet Union, from October 1959 to June 1962. Can you cast any light on why the CIA sent Oswald to the USSR in October 1959? That seems a remarkably prescient move if he was there as part of a plot to have Kennedy killed in December 1963 If not, what on earth were they planning on using him for?

    A CIA Oswald would be a star agent being willing to deliver himself into the hands of the KGB and run the risk of them identifying him as a CIA agent , which would have meant Siberia or much worse. And you think Oswald did this without knowing what he was doing it all for?

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Stonehands
  106. Alden says:

    The American Air Force was supposed to bomb any and all Cuban forces on their way to attack the anti Castro forces. JFK refused to issue the order. With nothing to oppose the Cuban forces the invasion was a failure.

    How’s this for a theory? JFK was only elected because the corrupt Chicago democrats created enough fraudulent votes to swing the Illinois electoral college to Kennedy. So he barely squeaked in. The economy was still in its full post war boom so that was not a concern.

    But between the Bay of Pigs, the Berlin Wall and the Cuban (actually Russian missiles based in Cuba) Missile Crisis Kennedy became perceived as weak in his battle with Russia. Remember, he was a fervent cold warrior, “pay any price, bear any burden” etc. Then too, a major base of the Democrats was labor union members. Yet his brother, RFK spend his career attacking labor unions. As AG RFK really went after labor unions.

    So here is my theory. His re election was just a year away. Between his weakness vis a vis Russia, his brothers anti labor union activities, and the fact that he only won his first election through massive fraud in Chicago, JFK and his advisors were worried about his re election.

    So the assassination was a charade designed to ensure a massive sympathy vote for JFK in the 1964 election.

    Another theory is that Mrs. Kennedy and her second husband Onassis were behind it all. I googled it once. There are about 3,000 books about the assassination. Every author starts out with his or her opinion and then twists the facts and often just makes things up to prove their original thesis.

    • Replies: @Sean
  107. Sean says:

    Walker was confined in a mental institution for three days , and if Kennedy had had his way Walker would have been kept there for THREE MONTHS. His crime was simply criticism of Kennedy’s policies

    No one knows what Oswald said during his visit to the Cuban embassy. He had already tried to shoot Walker so assassination was on his mind and it is conceivable he offered to kill Kennedy when trying to get the Cubans to let him in the country. One thing is certain, he said he was a Marxist.

    I think you need to research actual secret service operations such as the French secret agents blowing up that Greenpeace ship, in New Zealand and trying to blame it on the British, or the Russians secret agents’ polonium assassination of Alexander Litvinenko in London to get a sense of what they can do and what they might actually attempt. Secret services are comically inept–except in the movies, which cater to a need for suspending belief.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  108. Alden says:

    There is a picture in many of the books of 3 of Oswald’s fellow employees in the windows on the fifth floor of the building. 2 looked out of one window, the window directly underneath the window the shots came from and where the shooters stand and rifle was found. The other man was in the next fifth floor window.

    They all testified that they heard the shots, felt the vibration and that dust fell from the ceiling pipes and shelves due to the vibration of the shots.

    I look at the Who Shot Kennedy genre as pure entertainment, like early John Le Carre and John Grisham, Len Deighton etc. The event generates vast amounts of books and discussion, sort of like the Bible.

    Who knows?

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @bluedog
    , @Sean
  109. Sean says:

    President John F. Kennedy’s secret interviews with his wife claim he warned his assassination would safeguard his legacy around a year before his death.

    JFK made the prediction about his reputation privately to his wife Jackie.

    Previously unheard conversations involving the First Lady in the months after JFK’s assassination reveal the president’s theory.

    The conversations date back to 1964 when Jacqueline Kennedy had in-depth conversations with historian Arthur M Schlesinger Jnr.

    Professor Robert Dallek, a popular Kennedy historian made the discovery after closely examining pages of “Jacqueline Kennedy’s Oral History.”

    “(JFK) said to Mrs Kennedy after his success in the Cuban Missile Crisis: ’If anyone’s going to kill me, it should happen now,”’

  110. bluedog says:

    Hmm are you one of those who think all the Russians are stupid of course they knew Oswald was C.I.A. and had been ever since he was stationed in Japan, where he was privileged into listening to the U-2 flights, and of course Oswald was not in on the killing of JFK, why he was sent to Russia perhaps for the pro-Castro group to set up his cover on his return seeing he was involved in running guns to the anti=Castro group, but one thing we do know from the sworn testimony of a woman who worked in the records department of the CIA was that his file had been tagged which ment that the CIA didn’t trust him thus the perfect patsy,,,

    • Replies: @Sean
  111. @Sean

    So, you contend he was merely a dangerous malcontent who defected – yet he calls the shots- upon demanding re-entry to the US?

    • Replies: @Alden
  112. bluedog says:

    Who said he tried to shoot Walker for that’s never been proven except by a shopped photo which was debunked long ago.As well as his visit to the embassy in Mexico which was also proven to not be Oswald at all and lol you are reaching the Russian killing of Alexander Litvinenko another far reach for that was never proved either ,you seem to deal in way out schemes only known to your mind it seems…

  113. bluedog says:

    Yes who knows but when congress re-visited the evidence some years later they had this to say yes there were more then one involved in the shooting of JFK and yes it was a conspiracy..

    • Replies: @Alden
  114. bluedog says:

    Hmm strange for another worker testified that right after the shots she saw him sitting in the lunch room drinking a coke some 3 or floors below nor did he seem out of breath,and one thing I have never read nor seen is where are the empty shell cases, for he sure wouldn’t have took them with him, the reason of course is because those shots never came from those windows to begin with and the reason they were never placed in evidence..

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Alden
  115. Alden says:

    When Oswald defected and re defected, it was standard policy for the State Department to buy tickets, hotel vouchers, etc to send stranded Americans home. A person like Oswald with no relatives to meet him and a very dependent wife and baby in tow would get a referral to the welfare department of the city in which they landed. NYC welfare department took care of them until they got home to Texas.

    It was standard procedure. It still is although the State Department will make stranded Americans jump through hoops to get a ticket home.

  116. Alden says:

    One thing “Oswald worked for the CIA” theorists don’t realize is that no government agency of any nation would allow an operative to live in the absolute poverty of the Oswald family. A single man could perhaps, perhaps have operated in and out of minimum wage jobs. But with a totally dependent wife, one baby and another on the way Oswald could barely pay rent.

    To go fetch his rifle he had to beg a ride from a co worker. The same co worker brought him back to work the day of the killing. His rifle was stashed, with no charge in a suburb with no public transportation.
    What kind of CIA, Israeli, KGB operative can’t afford to keep his rifle in a public storage unit or can’t afford some kind of shabby studio instead of a boarding house. What kind of operative can’t afford a car or driving lessons, particulary in 1960’s Dallas?

    • Replies: @bluedog
  117. Alden says:

    How old was kalid in 1963? Was he even born?

  118. Alden says:

    3 people who were right under the window from which he fired from as opposed to 1 worker who observed him in a lunch room at some time before shots were fired.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  119. Alden says:

    Guess you never heard of picking up the casings and dumping them in a convenient bus stop trash can?

    • Replies: @bluedog
  120. bluedog says:

    Idiot of course he did and left the rifle behind in plain site was it ever tested to see if it had been fired not that I know of, and then run home to get his 38 which somehow he just left behind as he left for work Nope friend that dog don’t hunt either..

  121. bluedog says:

    Son there’s an old saying if you can’t run with the big dogs stay on the porch,now first the poster said 3 WORKERS ABOVE HIM on the next floor or two not under him, but your trying to make it sound better bait and switch I THINK IS THE TERM, but they of course never saw him against 1 WORKER who did see him my money is on the ONE WHO DID SEE HIM…

    • Replies: @Alden
  122. bluedog says:

    Where did you dream up that they lived in poverty for he was given a very very good job in a contract company doing work for the government,part of his job was doing overlay work on maps where the U2 flights were going over Cuba and where his previous training in Japan on U2 flights came into play, after all he held a crpyto clearance which is above top secret,a job arranged by the same one he was taken to after returning from Russia.
    As to why he went to Russia perhaps that can be explained by a man who was executive assistant to the Deputy Director of the CIA in 1959 the year Oswald defected at the time the U.S. was having a real problem in acquiring any information out of Russia, so the ONI hatched a program to send three dozen or so young men who were made to appear disenchanted poor and wanted to see what communism was all about,some only lasted a few weeks.They sent them into the Soviet Union,or into eastern Europe with the thought that they would be picked up recruited as KGB agents or double agents,the operation was run out of Nag’s Head,North Carolina.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Alden
  123. Alden says:

    On the day JFK was elected there were about 750 American troops in Vietnam. They trained the Vietnamese army to use the weapons we sold to them.
    On the day he died there were 45,000 combat troop as well as the air force and navy in Vietnam. JFK sent then to Vietnam.

    Anyone who believes JFK wanted to retreat from Vietnam has read too many
    Kennedy conspiracy books.

    “Don’t listen to what he says, watch what he does” is an old French saying. I’ve read maybe 100 Kennedy conspiracy books. The authors just write a thousand pages to prove one theory or another. They should all use the scientific method. First assemble the facts. Then use the facts to deduct a theory. The Kennedy conspiracy writers begin with a theory and twist the facts to fit the theory

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  124. Alden says:

    Oswald had that job for about 2 months and it paid minimum wage like every other job he ever had.

    Read some of the endless books about Oswald, his wife Marina, the Payne family that supported his wife and children and what the Russian community of Dallas told writers about the poverty in which the Oswalds lived.

    Most of his pay checks came to about \$25 a week. Back then it was barely enough for one person but total poverty for a couple with a non working wife, a baby and a baby in the way.

  125. Alden says:

    I’ve read those books too. The Russians didn’t even trust their faithful servants Maclean, Burgess and Philby after they defected to Russia. Why would they trust Americans who unlike Maclean, Burgess and Philby who worked for the Russians 20 years or more and gave the Russians vast amounts of useful information.

    If the CIA/FBI etc wanted to plant an agent in Russia it would work this way.

    1 Recruit someone already in the military
    2 Give him a top secret job
    3 Tell him to approach the soviet state while in the military
    4 Arrange for him to give lots of top secret information to the sockets
    5 Arrange for him to be investigated and the soviets made aware of the investigation
    6 Then have him run to the soviets to avoid arrest and a treason trial.

    I’ve read all about the idea that the CIA send defectors to the Soviet Union Maybe it happened, maybe it didn’t

    But I don’t believe any of the conspiracy books. They are entertainment, that’s all.

  126. Alden says:

    Only the naive and credulous believe any conclusions made by congressional committees.
    Remember that the committee hearings that came to that conclusion held hearings after 15 years and at least a thousand books of the CIA FBI Mafia military oil industry etc etc etc all conspired to kill Kennedy

  127. Alden says:

    Raiken took them to the NYC welfare dept. Travelers Aid helped thousands of people that year. Oswald was supposed to
    pay the state department back for the cost of transportation. That’s standard procedure for stranded Americans whose fare home is paid by the state department

    It was not special treatment.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  128. Alden says:

    Um, there is no law or precedent to prevent a defector or any kind of ex pat from returning to the USA.

    The real mystery is why the soviets allowed the wife and baby to leave. As far as I know, she was one of only two Russian wives of foreigners allowed to leave between 1930 and 1980. The other one was married to an Anerucan diplomat in the 1950s

    There were several hundred Russian wives married to foreigners who were not allowed to leave Russia at the time. They and the children stayed in Russia.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  129. Alden says:

    Oswalds rifle was found on the 6th floor. The 3 workers who heard the shot, felt the vibration and saw the dust falling from the ceiling pipes were looking out the 5th floor Windows

    There are numerous copies of that picture in many of the thousands of books.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  130. bluedog says:

    Lol my father always told me “never argue with a fool for he will wear you down and beat you for he has more experience’. lot of truth in that I’M BEAT…

    • Replies: @Alden
  131. @Alden

    Um, there is no law or precedent to prevent a defector or any kind of ex pat from returning to the USA.

    While this may be the case for hippie backpackers in Cambodia- I would think that the return of a Soviet defector would be national news blared by the vaunted citadels of freedom like the Washington Post… In addition to drawing the collective stink-eye of myriad surveillance agencies…Like you stated, how the hell were the wife and child allowed to leave?

    • Replies: @Alden
  132. Sparkon says:

    The question is not so much how many books on JFK you’ve read, as it is whether or not you’ve read the right ones, and reached the correct conclusion:

    Exit Strategy: In 1963, JFK ordered a complete withdrawal from Vietnam

    Article author James K. Galbraith quotes, former Army intelligence officer John Newman author of JFK and Vietnam:

    (1) On October 2, 1963, Kennedy received the report of a mission to Saigon by McNamara and Maxwell Taylor, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). The main recommendations, which appear in Section I(B) of the McNamara-Taylor report, were that a phased withdrawal be completed by the end of 1965 and that the “Defense Department should announce in the very near future presently prepared plans to withdraw 1,000 out of 17,000 U.S. military personnel stationed in Vietnam by the end of 1963.” At Kennedy’s instruction, Press Secretary Pierre Salinger made a public announcement that evening of McNamara’s recommended timetable for withdrawal.

    But from October 11 onward the CIA’s reporting changed drastically. Official optimism was replaced by a searching and comparatively realistic pessimism. Newman believes this pessimism, which involved rewriting assessments as far back as the previous July, was a response to NSAM 263. It represented an effort by the CIA to undermine the ostensible rationale of withdrawal with success, and therefore to obstruct implementation of the plan for withdrawal. Kennedy, needless to say, did not share his full reasoning with the CIA.

    Before a large audience at the LBJ Library on May 1, 1995, McNamara restated his account of this meeting and stressed its importance. He confirmed that President Kennedy’s action had three elements: (1) complete withdrawal “by December 31, 1965,” (2) the first 1,000 out by the end of 1963, and (3) a public announcement, to set these decisions “in concrete,

    I’d suggest there is pretty good evidence that JFK had made the decision to withdraw, and was about to begin its discreet implementation when he was killed.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Alden
  133. Sean says:
    Much of the evidence Shenon includes in his book shows the amount of information about Oswald’s time in Mexico that either never reached the Warren Commission investigators or was directly contradicted in reports by the CIA. One example is a June 1964 memo to the commission’s lead investigator from J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI director at the time of Kennedy’s assassination, in which Hoover wrote about a report from “our people in Mexico” that ” [Oswald] stormed into the embassy, demanded the visa, and when it was refused to him, headed out saying, ‘I’m going to kill Kennedy for this.’” (it was unclear to Hoover whether the embassy in question was the Cuban or Soviet embassy in Mexico City). The investigators told Shenon they were certain they had never seen the memo, which disappeared before it reached them and only turned up in the classified archives of the CIA years later. […] “There is some evidence to suggest [Oswald] had a brief relationship with a young Mexican woman ho worked at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City,” Shenon said on “Face the Nation.” “The Warren Commission actually wanted to interview that woman but Chief Justice Warren made the decision she would not be interviewed because he said ‘she was a communist and we don’t interview communists.’”

    A section of Scott’s memoirs – which included details about the extent of the CIA’s monitoring of Oswald in Mexico – was only declassified in the 1990s. The agency photographed Oswald outside of the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City, and recorded his phone calls while he was in Mexico, evidence that never reached the commission. Scott’s memoirs also reveal that he thought there might have been a foreign conspiracy to kill Kennedy involving Oswald as a Communist agent, which contradicted what he told the Warren Commission.

    See, they minimized the commie connection. So framing commie countries was not the objective.

    At first blush Oswald was surely rather young to be selected for a long term sleeper operation , being barely 17 when he enlisted in the Marines , and still only 19 years old in 1959 when he arrived in the USSR; a few months before in April 1959, Castro had visited the U.S. where the CIA could have done just about anything they wanted to him.

    Of course there were files on him and of course the CIA and FBI knew all about him. That is the point. He wasn’t an agent of anyone–he was a independent minded loose cannon, and that is why he embarrassed and wrong-footed every intelligence agency he came into contact with, including the KGB and the Cubans. Casto agreed to be questioned for the Warren Commission, no doubt he was truthful in denying Oswald was an agent of Cuba, but Oswald saved Cuba nonetheless.

    The nukes were gone and Cuba was helpless. Kennedy was going to use US military forces on Cuba next, but Oswald put a stop to all that. Just shows what one determined Marine and his rifle can accomplish.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  134. Sean says:

    It’s certain that JFK had made the decision to withdraw from Vietnam , after he won the war against the Vietnamese communists.The thing was the US could not beat the Vietnamese communist, because they were politically strong despite their military weakness, and democratic election would have resulted in a VC victory, something the US had to learn from experience. The Vietnamese were like Oswald, small men who were easy to underestimate.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  135. Sean says:

    He was seen at a range using the rifle with extra high powered cartridges that created a great deal of muzzle blast.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  136. @Alden

    I suppose in your world defections of marines, with a background working in intelligence and having received special training in the Russian language, to the USSR were everyday occurrences and could be said to be true of thousands of marines. That must be how you are able to make such statements.

  137. The Internal Compliance Unit of The Department of Justice.

    “The Unit’s working are obscure even within the DOJ and its operational purview is, as certain senators have occasionally charged, ‘dangerously undefined’.

    The ICU is located on the tenth floor of this modern office complex in Washington, isolated from a bureaucracy it is obliged to scrutinize. Behind its bland title there’s an extremely secretive, powerful and far-reaching investigative agency charged with highly classified audits and examinations of other U.S. government agencies that cannot be done in-house and which involves highly sensitive matters.

    It is said that ICU officials were deeply involved in scrutinizing the CIA’s Aldrich Ames fiasco; in investigating the Reagan White House’s Iran-Contra affair; in examining numerous Defense Department acquisitions scandals. It was the ICU, people whisper, that first uncovered the suspicious activities of the FBI’s counterintelligence agent Robert Philip Hanssen. There are even rumors that the ICU was behind the “deep throat” leaks that led to Richard Nixon’s downfall.” ~ Robert Ludlum, author of The Sigma Protocol.

  138. Sparkon says:

    Striking the incorrect amendment you tried to sneak in:

    It’s certain that JFK had made the decision to withdraw from Vietnam , after he won the war against the Vietnamese communists.

    Kennedy was getting the U.S. out of Vietnam by the end of 1965. Period. Full Stop.

    President Kennedy’s action had three elements:
    (1) complete withdrawal “by December 31, 1965,”
    (2) the first 1,000 out by the end of 1963, and
    (3) a public announcement, to set these decisions “in concrete

    There was nothing in there–zip, zero, nada, zilch–about winning any war against the Vietnamese communists. Either your reading skills are very poor, or you choose to ignore what doesn’t agree with your cherished notions, or you are up to something else…

    He was seen at a range using the rifle with extra high powered cartridges that created a great deal of muzzle blast.

    FBI head J. Edgar Hoover knew that somebody was impersonating Oswald already by June 3, 1960, when he wrote this memo:

    Since there is a possibility that an imposter is using Oswald’s birth certificate, any current information the Department of State may have concerning the subject will be appreciated.

    While Russian-speaking Oswald was still back in the USSR, his doppleganger was arrested in New Orleans:

    On March 31, 1961, a memo was sent from the passport office to John White, an official at the consular section of the State Department, reiterating the concern about two Oswalds originally expressed by Hoover nine months earlier.

    In the fall of 1961, while Harvey Oswald was still in Russia, Police Officer Charles Noto arrested LEE Oswald and Celso Hernandez on Breakwater Road on the Lakefront in New Orleans.

    In April, 1962, while Harvey Oswald was still in Russia, LEE Oswald visited the Texas Employment Commission in Ft. Worth and filled out form E-40a, Aptitude Profile Test (APT) B-1002 and the Occupational Aptitude Pattern test (WC XIX, p 491).

    There is no doubt that Hoover knew about a LEE Harvey Oswald in the United States while Lee HARVEY Oswald was in the Soviet Union.

    The American who was photographed at the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City in Sept., 1963 looks nothing like the Lee Harvey Oswald who was arrested in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963.

    There is also evidence that other impersonators were using the name Lee Harvey Oswald, and/or had his identification.

  139. bluedog says:

    Keep trying son your only digging your hole deeper with your deceit,two who worked for the C.I.A. a husband and wife team worked in the payroll department in Japan stated that yes Oswald’s name was on the payroll of the C.I.A.,in Mexico the camera’s show a man claiming to be Oswald speaking in broken Russian height 6″1” age about 35 athletic build receding hairline bald on top,Oswald spoke fluent Russian 5’10” age 24 light brown wavy hair are we talking about the same Oswald or not,this was on Sept.27 and 28th and lol you must be in some self induced dreamland in your thinking JFK was going to use military force on Cuba, when he had had quite extensive communication thru back door channels with Castro..

  140. bluedog says:

    Which Oswald are you referring to the one who made an ass out of himself to draw attention to the fact that he was there with a rifle, or the real Oswald who was elsewhere and how do you know that the cartridges were extra high powered,hell a 30-06 with a 150 grain load creates a hell of a muzzle blast and that’s a damn small load as other high powered rifles do..

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Sean
  141. Anonymous [AKA "Bob In Portland"] says:

    Professor Scott, it appears to me that the “Russian hack” story, begun in June of 2016, was a false flag, not to sink Trump’s presidency because most everyone at the time thought he’d lose, but to give President Hillary Clinton a casus belli against Russia.

    When the DNC first announced it thought it had been hacked it refused allowing the FBI to run the investigation and instead gave it to the private “cybersecurity” company CrowdStrike which has links going to far-right Ukrainian and far-right anti-Soviet think tanks.

    What is the one thing that Trump won’t give the Deep State that Clinton was falling all over herself to give them? A war with Russia. How far up Clinton and the Deep State would ratchet it up is open to imagination.

    I suspect that the ongoing Trump-Putin scandal is actually the Deep State negotiating with Trump for that war. Or negotiating for Pence to give them that war.

    People with a voice need to consider this.

  142. Alden says:

    Better to read 100 books and be exposed to 100 conspiracy theories than read just one book and believe whatever that looney left writer says.

    One thing about reading 100 books. Many of the books corroborate what other books claim. But many of the books write about alleged facts and theories that totally disprove other books.

    The craziest book was about 950 pages. The author claimed that the assassins had some kind of surgeon in the entourage that went to Dallas. On the plane going back, the surgeon opened up the coffin and cut some holes in the wounds to fool the autopsy Drs. Yeah right!

    Someone opens up the coffin in full view of around 20 people and starts cutting up the deceased President. Then the autopsy Drs don’t notice that these new wounds didn’t bleed because after death corpses don’t bleed.

    The next craziest is that Mrs. Kennedy’s second husband did it.

    Its an interesting thrilling genre, no different from Patterson, Koontz or Clancy.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  143. Sean says:

    The load whatever it was was excessive at the range to the point that the father and son who saw him at the range were struck by the huge muzzle flash, Whatever it was for the assassination, the bullet was gaining muzzle velocity only in a relatively short carbine barrel. All other things being equal, a carbine would have more blast I was merely noting that Aiden’s point about the firing having come from around where Oswald coing by considerable blast at that location ties in with Oswald having used the same cartridges for the assassination that he was seen practicing with.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  144. Sean says:

    Richard Henry Popkin (/ˈpɑːpkɪn/; December 27, 1923 – April 14, 2005) was an academic philosopher who specialized in the history of enlightenment philosophy and early modern anti-dogmatism. His 1960 work The History of Scepticism from Erasmus to Descartes [1] introduced one previously unrecognized influence on Western thought in the seventeenth century, the Pyrrhonian Scepticism of Sextus Empiricus. Popkin also was an internationally acclaimed scholar on Jewish and Christian millenarianism and messianism. […] Beyond his philosophical works, he is noted for writing The Second Oswald (1966), questioning the Warren Report lone gunman explanation of the John F. Kennedy assassination. Popkin’s theory was that a look-alike of Lee Harvey Oswald was the actual assassin of Kennedy.

    The Warren report or the conspiracy theory, which is the religion, eh?

    • Replies: @bluedog
  145. bluedog says:

    That of course with the assumption that it was the real Oswald which I very much doubt and if there was such an extreme muzzle blast which would indicate hand loads then it would have been seen by someone on the street,yet none were seen and none came forth saying they had sold Oswald any reloading material or wait lol perhaps the Russians or the Cubans or the Chinese or Mexico gave it to him.Fails to make any sense at all and yes I have read about his incident at the firing range didn’t make sense then and makes no sense now…

    • Replies: @Sean
  146. bluedog says:

    I presume you are referring to the magic bullet theory that the bullet that killed JFK some how just rolled off the gurney that his body was on undamaged of course,I think I will go where the facts lead me until the facts are proven wrong, and so far they haven’t and no I haven’t read 5 thousand books but have read enough of them..

  147. Sparkon says:

    When the facts aren’t in your favor, fall back on philosophy, or book-counting again.

    Better to read 100 books and be exposed to 100 conspiracy theories than read just one book and believe whatever that looney left writer says.

    False dichotomy.

    Anyone who believes JFK wanted to retreat from Vietnam has read too many Kennedy conspiracy books.

    You’ve already demonstrated that either you are woefully misinformed, or you are willfully spreading false information about JFK’s publicized plan to get out of Vietnam by the end of 1965, as revealed by JFK’s Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara in his 1995 memoir In Retrospect., but in your smugly ignorant view, Sec’y McNamara is a “looney (sic) left writer”

    Its an interesting thrilling genre, no different from Patterson, Koontz or Clancy.

    Speak for yourself.

    Maybe your viewpoint explains why you can’t separate fact from fiction.

    • Replies: @Alden
  148. Alden says:

    Speaking of credulous fools who believe anything they read.

    I’m skeptical of all the JFK books.

  149. Alden says:

    Yes indeed, I’m part if the conspiracy. I’m a GS 16 assigned to spend my career lurking on the Internet debunking JFK conspiracy theories.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  150. bluedog says:

    Hmm wondered why you were so brainwashed now I know you have been thru the government mill the GS16…

    • Replies: @Alden
  151. @nsa

    “…the perps who knocked down the twin towers…???”

    You mean the Bush Crime Family and their Saudi and Jewish allies? Owner of the Twin Towers, Silverstein Properties, got paid insurance money for each Tower as a separate act of “terrorism”, instead of a single act, as his insurance policy actually read! And then, Silverstein kept the property for re-development on top of that!!!

    If not for the “controlled demolition” of the Twin Towers and WTC 7, it would have been impossibly expensive to re-develop the money-losing WTC property into something that would cash flow positively.

    As any knowledgeable person knows, to find out “whodunit”, follow the money.

  152. Sean says:

    If Kennedy had been shot with a M1 carbine, one would not have expected his brain to be literally blown out and a large part of his cranium to go flying, which it did. So while it was not a big game rifle with expanding or tumbling bullets (witness the straight through wound to his neck) he was shot with something high velocity but stable,and a rifle found at the scene fits that bill.

    The real Oswald was a trained infantryman and while the assassination was more difficult that most people allow (there were leafy trees in the way) the real Oswald had the skill to kill Kennedy.

    The real Oswald fled the scene, and then went to the movies, Hardly the behavior of an innocent man.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  153. @Sean

    Let’s face it Sean, you’re just too stupid/disingenuous to post here at The Unz Review. An M1 carbine LOL

    • Disagree: bluedog
    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Sean
  154. bluedog says:

    Lol damn I hit the wrong button I agree completely his mind is like a closed book unless its opened nothing can get in or out and its amazing how many are like that..

  155. Alden says:

    I was 21 when Kennedy was killed. Oswalds return to the US was all over the national newspapers for a couple weeks.

    His arrest a year or so later in New Orleans for disturbing the peace in a squabble between pro and anti Castro activists was also in the news.

    In those days conservatives were anti communists, not fuddy duddies as they are today. When the news broke out of their arrival in NYC conservatives logically assumed that the Russian wife was a sleeper agent and Oswald was too.

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @Stonehands
  156. Alden says:

    You don’t even know what a GS 16 is do you? It’s a pay scale.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  157. Sean says:

    Yes, a M1 carbine just like one of the wide variety that was offered by Kleins sporting goods of Chicago mail order ads, which had many weapons such as a M1 carbine mail order for 78 dollars, and a a M1 rifle (Garland ) that the same ad offered for 90 dollars.but Hidel selected another rifle from the many available. Hidel chose a Carcano with scope for a total of 20 dollars.

    Alden pertinently brought up that our boy was only earning 25 dollars a week, so it certainly is a mystery why the CIA did not give him a raise so he could buy the M1 eight shot automatic rifle similar to the one he trained with and used on the test when he was rated sharpshooter. |It would have been cheaper in the sense they they could have laid off all those other gunmen like Woody Harilson’s dad on the bridge and the one behind the fence (who was very exposed), to say nothing of the drivers, lookouts, and fake Secret Service running interference.

    On the other hand the Carcano did a hell of a job. Tests showed a single bullet can do what Popkin said it could not, if it is a Carcaco bullet ,

    See there is a reason why I brought up the M1 carbine. I also brought up the Addison’s disease that JFK lied about not having and that explains why there was no proper autopsy– he had the tell tale no adrenal glands). Moreover I brought up Popkin, and whether you know it or not he originated almost all the points still being made for it being literally impossible that Oswald-with-a-rifle-on his lunchbreak could have single handedly killed JFK .

    If JFK had lived his reputation would be toast, The man himself said not long before the assassination that he needed to be killed for his myth to live on. Kennedy, a speed addict by the way ( in addition to all the cortisol and testosterone sent troops to nam intending to withdraw them, because he clearly sent US troops into Vietnam with the intention of fighting a quick victorious campaign, thereby troops would be withdrawn. This is is he same fellow who Caused the Cuba crisis with his insane pursuing of the idiot Eisenhower’s plan to give Germany nuclear weapons. He provoked Russia to the very brink of nuclear war, and was not finished with Cuba, yet people think he was going to quit Vietnam. I still think Oswald was better at being an assassin that Kennedy was at being a president.

    • Replies: @bluedog
    , @NoseytheDuke
  158. bluedog says:

    Lol of course, it is a government pay scale to be correct/…

  159. bluedog says:

    I was oh in my mid to late 20’s when that happened, and your probably right that that’s the way conservatives saw it (but no one else did as I recall) for they are always looking for something in the woodpile if it looks like a Ben Franklin that is…

  160. @Alden

    So, there was notoriety upon LHO’s return. I was only 3yrs old when Kennedy was assassinated…Appreciate your recollection.

  161. bluedog says:

    Now wait a minute just where’s the proof that he was making only \$25.00 per week just because some nut post that its so don’t make it so,and of course there was a PROPER autopsy in Maryland and as the man that took the photo’s stated the room was full of brass from all the services, but he was told not to take any pictures from the shoulders up,he did he died as many others did that were involved..

    • Replies: @Sean
  162. Sean says:

    Oswald used a clunky Italian bolt action when he could have had a M1 rifle, the only possible reason was the cheapness of the Italian rifle and Oswald being broke when he bought it . Unless that is the CIA knew that bullets from the Italian rifle had the extraordinary characteristic of being stable going through bodies but tumbling in air, as was was found out decades later (

    ) and that people would be convinced a bullet could NOT change direction in mid air WOULD SPEND DECADES CONVINCED THEY and only they knew what really happened

    That is quite true about the autopsy the Kennedy but it wasn’t generals behind the autopsy being done peculiarly, the Kennedy circle had his corpse taken to a Navy hospital so the autopsy could be prevented from examining his adrenal glands and fing he didn’t have any (a sign of Addison’s disease. Camelot did not want it known that he had ,.Addison’s disease and a proper autopsy would have disclosed he had it it and therefore had lied to the American people when he officially denied having it. Kennedy was puffed up like a bullfrog physically and mentally by the cortisol (a film, Bigger than Life starring james Hason is about the megalomania caused by cortisol treatment), he was also taking testosterone, which has well known effects, but WHILE PRES he also waS OFTEN OFF HIS ROCKER ON SPEED TO THE THE EXTENT HE RAN NAKED THOUGH HOTEL CORRIDORS AND HAD TO BE RESTRAINED. 1962, at the Carlyle Hotel in New York, a man “peeled off his clothing and began prancing around his hotel suite.” His bodyguards were cautiously amused, until the man “left the suite and began roaming through the corridor of the Carlyle.”

    The man in question was delusional, paranoid and suffering a “psychotic break” from the effects of an overdose of methamphetamine.

    He was also the president of the United States.

    The reason for John F. Kennedy’s bizarre behavior was that, according to an explosive new book, the president was — unbeknownst to him, at first — a meth addict.

    No wonder he was at like a bunny rabbit.

    Anyway Eisenhower was a general and he warned about the deep state, right? In his lack of political or government experience Trump is more comparable to Ike than JFK. It’s ludicrous to say Trump is a representative any Big Money oil/industrial clique within the deep state . No, Trump represents something Peter Dale Scott never talks about.

    You see deep means hidden and there is nothing hidden about big money, everyone knew they run things for their own benefit. Trump was able to become leader of the nation-state called USA BY SPLITTING the state from the nation, and calling on the power of the deep nation. which is in the mass of the people, not military, economic or ideological institutions.

  163. Sean says:
    @Timur The Lame

    The recent high tech test of Oswald’s rifle showed a single bullet could do what experts thought impossible. There are odd things about 911, but reality is so deep there are always surprises possible.

  164. @Sean

    It would appear that you have no clue whatsoever as to the difference between an M1 carbine and an M1 Garand, not Garland as you wrote. Lol, you really are just too stupid to post here at The Unz Review.

    • Replies: @Sean
  165. Sean says:

    The mail order supply ad Hidel used and obtained the Carcano through, als0 offered, among many other weapons, both an M1 carbine and an M1 rifle. The M1 Garand rifle was what Oswald was familiar with from the Marines, (where he proved to be a good shot) and being a faster firing weapon Oswald had links to, one might think the CIA would have used a M1 Garand rifle–all the better to convince the world that Lee Harvey man did it.

    The fiendishly cunning CIA obviously used the cheapest and least effective foreign rifle they could so as to convince the the stupid people that because such a gun would never have been used by a team of trained professional assassins and would be unlikely to be used by an lone ex Marine intent on murder, let alone a stupendous world shaking assassination, just because it was very cheap. Th very implausibility of such a penny pinching choice made it more likely to be seen as not fabricated, but rather one of those things that happen in this crazy old world. The CIA were not worried about convincing the smart people like you, and must be regretting that now.

  166. Anonymous [AKA "Jaysu"] says:
    @Sam J.

    16,000 advisors / troops in 1963 …have no idea where you get your information
    Bay of pigs was doomed from the start and the CIA knew it had no chance. They thought that JFK would cave in and use US military to overthrow a leader that we helped put in place in Castro.
    JFK wisely did not attack Cuba and the CIA bungled another operation. The corrupt Diem was to be overthrown by his own Military as the vastly outnumbered Viet Cong were kicking the ARVN rear end do to the corruption of Diem….once again the CIA backing a corrupt leader. His death was on the Military of SVN.

  167. Anonymous [AKA "Magnum Opus"] says:

    The JFK Onion Layer Motives and Connections Exposed:
    It gets interesting in that the JFK theme differences are generally grouped into the “Lone Nuts” and the “Conspiracy Theorists”. The “Lone Nut” themes are backing the Warren Commission Report, which is a well established lie for basically treason against the American People. The “Conspiracy Theorists” were named by the CIA because they are generally vastly wrong in their assumptions of who did what. They provide general hearsay and confusion and generally fall into treason by setting up confusion for those seeking accuracy and truth.
    So, the “Lone Nut” backers are 100 % wrong, and the “Conspiracy Theorists” are 99 % wrong in their assertions. Since these are the ones totally off the truth for the JFK hit, they are basically providing lies, confusion, and the damage; all they do is treason.


    Only the 1 % get the issues straight, or partially straight for the JFK hit players involved. There was a conspiracy against JFK, but it was one of various layers of knowledge, like the layers of an Onion’s Skin for involvement going to the top echelon of the corrupt US Imperialist power elite…
    The story actually begins around the first of April 1963 when Lee Oswald returns to New Orleans and hits the ground running trying to connect with every FBI, CIA, anti-Castro movement he can find. LHO was recruited for a “deep cover” mission by the US DOJ’s Bobby Kennedy. He picks up his former associates like David Ferrie, who is the lead for this Cancer Project and LHO quickly becomes part of that, Part of the Guy Banister bait to local pro-Castro and Anti-Castro people in New Orleans. LHO is right in the middle of all the National Security assets in New Orleans and right with the New Orleans Trade Mart Building. LHO got a check from the FBI, he got cash from the CIA in the Masonic Office building, and was connected with Mafia via David Ferrie, and serious Masonic anti-Communist former FBI Chief Guy Banister, who gave him office space.
    Before LHO came to New Orleans he was recruited by none other than RFK and the Kennedy’s need to go after the CIA and their Mafia alliances they wanted cut into a million pieces because of their extensive corruptions and trying to control the US from within. LHO peeled the onion skins back in a short time. LHO was supplying the Kennedy’s with the information they needed and when discovered he was a greater enemy to the CIA and the Mafia than the Kennedy’s and he was as dead as JFK when the Mafia and CIA found their mole. As the Castro project failed, LHO was pushed to Dallas and set up as the Patsy fame up person for shooting JFK by the Mafia’s Jack Ruby and the CIA.
    One obvious and simple truth is the inner layer of the onion skin is that JFK was killed by the Giancana gang using shooters Nicoletti and Files. That was mainly the Mafia hated JFK and they tried multiple times to try to kill JFK. Dallas was a bigger deal needed to insure they killed him this time around. For the shooters it was a paying job for murder, and for Giancana it was hate of the Kennedy’s. The lowest level had help from the highest level to insure JFK was a sitting duck for murder.
    The Marcello and Giancana Mafia man in Dallas, the soon to become murderer Jack Ruby, was solicited to be the JFK hit set-up man in Dallas. Ruby was going to become a “Tough Guy” and show the “Jews have Guts”. It was more like he was felony stupid, as the hit turned into the Keystone Cops of screw ups. The CIA tends to use a bunch of criminal screw up types, and they hit the jackpot with Ruby. Ruby was in debt to the Mafia and it appears he had to prove his worth, so he took the high risk job. He was also considered a pariah over being the gun runner to Castro that came to force the Mafia and US Companies out of Cuba. Ruby came into a wad of money from the Los Vegas Mafia. Ruby was the connection that called the Giancana gang and invited them to Dallas for a sure thing hit on JFK and had that arranged by being well connected with corrupt Texan and US Secret Service head LBJ.
    Jack Ruby was also in the CIA as a gun runner to Castro’s Cuba and actually helped Castro to take over Cuba and then have it become Communist and kick out all his Mafia gangs in Cuba, not to mention have all US assets in Cuba Nationalized, then nearly getting the US East Coast blown off the map in the Cuban Missile Crisis. A lot of folks considered Jack Ruby to be an expendable CIA and Mafia screw up. LHO knew all about the extremely corrupt and stupid Jack Ruby. Ruby was ordered to kill LHO, else Ruby would be killed for his serious screw ups with LHO.
    The criminal sociopath LBJ was “IN” on the Mafia’s hit as JFK was going to kick LBJ off the next ticket and LIFE Magazine was going to ruin LBJ’s career and toss him into jail.. LBJ ran the Secret Service, which made it easy to set up the JFK parade route and make fake SS credentials for the hit teams. LBJ even knew to duck down in his Limo as it turned in front of the Dal-Tex firing line, as witness by lots of the motorcycle escort Police.
    The next layers of the Onion involved both LBJ and Ruby highly backed Jewish issues and hated JFK for wanting to make Israel’s agents and others register as “Foreign Agents” in the US. Also, that JFK was enforcing nuclear non-proliferation on Israel and its Dimona Nuclear Weapons plant involving a French Reactor System. JFK had convinced France’s Charles DeGaulle to stop helping the Israelis on the Dimona Nuclear Weapons efforts. LBJ would be just the opposite of JFK, so Ruby backed LBJ in his efforts to have the Mafia kill JFK. Ruby was Mafia, Ruby backed Israel and everything Jewish. LBJ was a criminal, LBJ back Israel and Jewish folks in Texas,and parts of the SS and the CIA backed LBJ. Lots of onion layers due to many synergism issues for JFK’s death.
    The Next onion layer was Military Industrial Networks Oak Ridge National Lab’s Mason Raymond W. Tucker, Sr. had Jack Ruby become the front man in Dallas to have the Giancana killers come to Dallas. Ruby was also in cahoots with LBJ and the Secret Service to manage the parade route and supply the SS ID’s for the killers and other coordinators like the Radio Dispatch and communication by Lansky’s man Jim Braden. Meyer Lansky’s Jim Braden easily put out the Police Radio’s APB for LHO’s description.
    The Top Onion Layer is the Truman “Deep State” Masons that try to dominate and control all US Govt agencies. It is also the US State Dept that have all these English Imperialism backing types that stay on from Presidency to Presidency for 50 years. Oak Ridge and their nuclear weapons are a huge element of the Military Industrial Network and JFK was aiming to severely cut nuclear weapons due to his successes on the Atmospheric Test Band. JFK was murdered just shortly after the “Nuclear Test Ban Treaty,” as it so angered the Oak Ridge Bomb makers. The Oak Ridge element acted to eliminate Peace Seeking JFK via contact with CIA’s Jack Ruby in Dallas. This is why ORNL’s Raymond W. Tucker, Sr. got Jack Ruby involved to get JFK replaced with corrupt LBJ.
    Oak Ridge also was involved with the New Orleans method to kill Fidel Castro using an exotic method of radiation and cancer virus to make it appear Castro died of Cancer. Oak Ridge was the Manhattan Projects main center for Radiation Health Physics, which was consulted by Lee Harvey Oswald in the Summer of 1963 for that New Orleans Project involving Dr Alton Oschner, Dr. Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, LHO, and Judy Baker.
    Oak Ridge was found out and they expected to go that same route of destruction by JFK as the CIA. LBJ was involved in helping Ruby, plus Johnson’s Dallas New Money Imperialist Good Ole Oil buddies that all hated the JFK “FDR based New Deal” and were all about killing JFK. JFK followed FDR’s “New Deal” thinking, which would put the US “New Money” Imperialism under various Institutional Controls. A huge part of that Institutional Control was also to destroy the Company games of the CIA to make Empires with Banking’s Usury and Corporation ownership of lands and Government leaders. JFK was dumping the Rothschild’s’ Federal Reserve control over the US, as the US was headed into world peace and the end of the continuation wars for Empire Profits via Colonialism like exploitation of other countries, peoples, and their resources.
    The whole of the Onion is a country taken over from within by an out of control Imperialism, corrupt “Deep State” Masonic control of the US..Then the extreme security methods of the Manhattan Project using New York Mafia killers to keep the Manhattan Project from being disclosed to Germans in NYC. That system then becoming the wet kill operations for the CIA, and the extremes of secrecy to maintain total domination over the US.

  168. Northpal says:

    John F. Kennedy was an out and out internationalist (globalist) all you need to do is read his 1960 platform and speeches. There is a continual effort to try and hide this fact with false stories by Marrs and others (Executive Order 11110 and secret society speech) to a illiterate public in hopes of keeping the Jackie Onasis “Camelot” Myth alive.
    John F. Kennedy was not a liked nor well respected president during his time in office. The nation were fed up with this stumbling bumbling idiot and his disastrous administration leaving little to no chance for reelection. If it were not for the press and television he might have been impeached.

  169. pogohere says: • Website
    @Timur The Lame

    You are really gonna have fun with:

    Dr. Mary’s Monkey

    The 1964 murder of a nationally known cancer researcher sets the stage for this gripping exposé of medical professionals enmeshed in covert government operations over the course of three decades. Following a trail of police records, FBI files, cancer statistics, and medical journals, this revealing book presents evidence of a web of medical secret-keeping that began with the handling of evidence in the JFK assassination and continued apace, sweeping doctors into coverups of cancer outbreaks, contaminated polio vaccine, the arrival of the AIDS virus, and biological weapon research using infected monkeys.

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