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The Untold Story of How a Black Man Could Have Been First on the Moon
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Landing on the moon is arguably America’s greatest accomplishment. It’s therefore symbolic of our times that the American flag has been expunged from the upcoming biopic of Neil Armstrong, First Man. Star Ryan Gosling, a Canadian, said the moon landing “transcended countries and borders” and defended the erasure of Old Glory because “I think this was widely regarded in the end as a human achievement [and] that’s how we chose to view it.” In response, President Donald Trump called it “unfortunate” and a “terrible thing” and announced he wouldn’t see the movie. “It’s almost like they’re embarrassed at the achievement coming from America,” the President said.

One wonders if the film’s producers would be as eager to conceal the specifics of the moon landing if the Kennedy Administration’s original plans had been successful. Had John F. Kennedy not been assassinated, there’s a significant chance one of the first men on the moon, if not the first man, would have been African-American pilot Ed Dwight.

According to J. Alfred Phelps’s book They Had A Dream: The Story of African-American Astronauts, the Kennedy Administration was very aggressive in looking for “Negro” candidates to place in the NASA astronaut candidate program.

It all began with a telephone call from the White House to the Department of Defense. There was no arrogance in the caller’s voice; only a simple question:

‘Does the Air Force have any Negroes in the new aerospace research pilots’ course being set up at Edwards Air Force Baser in California?’

After what was probably an extended pause came the answer: ‘No, there aren’t any.’

It was an ordinary enough question, but the call came from an extraordinary source.

Had it come from an ordinary White House, the reaction might have been mild, nothing more than grist for a workday tale some government employee could tell at a weekend gathering. But this call came from the Kennedy White House, that place called “Camelot,” which had seen the beginning of civil rights ‘sit-ins’ and had sent troops to get a black man into a university in the Deep South. It was a White House that had used its influence to gain Martin Luther King’s release from jail. Perhaps the recipient of the call knew all of this and felt a bit like a person in a closed garage slowly filling with carbon monoxide. In any event, the reaction was predictable: something had better be done—and rather quickly. The innocuous-sounding call thus became something of an edict. (p. 6)

Luckily for the Kennedy Administration, the Air Force found Ed Dwight, a black test pilot. However, the legendary Colonel Chuck Yeager questioned Captain Dwight’s abilities.

Yeager later maintained that Dwight’s abilities were so lacking ‘we set up a special tutoring program to get him through the academics, as I recall, he lacked the engineering [background] that the other students had.’

Yeager further observes that Dwight worked hard, as did his tutors, but adds that ‘Dwight just couldn’t hack it. . . didn’t keep up in flying.’ Yeager claims to have worked with Dwight on his flying, but he noted that ‘our students were flying at levels really beyond his experience. The only prejudice against Dwight,’ Yeager recalls, wagging a literary finger, ‘was the conviction that he was not qualified to be in the school’ in the first place. (p. 20)

According to Colonel (now General) Yeager, Captain Dwight did not represent even the top ranks of black test pilots. However, Charles Sanders at Ebony magazine alleged Captain Dwight was subjected to a racially demeaning lecture and pointed to racism as the reason he was ultimately cut from the astronaut program.

Ed Dwight
Ed Dwight

The real reason was probably the assassination of President Kennedy. According to People magazine in 1988, Captain Dwight admitted “President Kennedy has taken a personal interest in his career.” However, he was dumped three days after the president’s death. “When my protector was killed, I was out,” he said.

Captain Dwight told Ebony in 1984 that his expulsion from the program “was 100 percent the death of Kennedy.” Indeed, before Kennedy’s death, his participation in NASA was heavily promoted by the government. “Prior to Kennedy’s death I was living awfully high on the hog,” he said. “I had a private secretary. I was sending out 5,000 press photographs a month, and I made 176 speeches the first year I was in [the astronaut training program at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif.].” As Ebony put it, “The Kennedy Administration tried to break away from the White-Protestant-male mold for its astronauts in 1961 by including one black.”

In The Right Stuff, the late Tom Wolfe identified the “Ed Dwight case” as a deliberate attempt by the Kennedy White House to subvert the meritocratic culture of the astronaut program. He writes that Colonel Yeager had received word that President Kennedy was “determined” that NASA “have at least one Negro astronaut.” The result was a massive push by the federal bureaucracy to artificially promote Captain Dwight.

Every week, it seemed like, a detachment of Civil Rights Division lawyers would turn up from Washington, from the Justice Department, which was headed by the President’s brother Bobby. The lawyers squinted in the desert sunlight and asked a great many questions about the progress and treatment of Ed Dwight and took notes. Yeager kept saying he didn’t see how he could simply jump Dwight over these other men. And the lawyers would come back the next week and squint some more and take some more notes. There were days when ARPS [Aerospace Research Pilots School] seemed like the Ed Dwight case with a few classrooms and some military hardware appended. A compromise was finally struck in which Dwight would be admitted to the space-flight course, but only if every man who ranked above him was also admitted. That was how it came to pass that the next class had fourteen students instead of eleven and included Captain Dwight. Meantime, the White House, apparently, was signaling to the Negro press that Dwight was going to be ‘the first Negro astronaut,’ and he was being invited to make public appearances. He was being set up for a fall, because the chances of NASA accepting him as an astronaut appeared remote in any event.

The whole thing was baffling. On the upper reaches of the great ziggurat the subject of race had never been introduced before. The unspoken premise was that you either had the right stuff or you didn’t, and no other variables mattered.


As Wolfe noted, in 1959, the white, Protestant identity of the Mercury Seven was “benign evidence” of “Small-Town American virtues.” However, President Kennedy’s minority-heavy coalition for his 1960 campaign made “white Protestant” take on a different meaning. Wolfe argues that military officers generally tended to be “old settler” stock and this explained why so many test pilots were WASPs. However, this demographic truth did not change the political reality that the Kennedy Administration wanted a black astronaut.

Under the new Johnson Administration, Captain Dwight never became an astronaut. He later became a successful sculptor, and there’s no doubt he was a highly skilled, even an outstanding pilot. However, it’s doubtful he met the elite standards needed to be an astronaut. He was in the program because of his race, and when that political consideration was no longer heeded, he was removed.

This story is significant because the glory days of NASA are often seen as an age before “political correctness” infected the entire program. Though Hollywood and the mass media are doing their best to retcon the story of the space program as a multicultural enterprise, few are buying it and the program is still regarded as a triumph of white America. This episode shows that political correctness was present even at the program’s inception. It’s possible that had Captain Dwight stayed in the program, politicians may have pushed for him to have been the first man on the moon.

First Man can dismiss the uniquely American nature of the space program precisely because it is seen as a uniquely white achievement. One wonders if a black man had been the first person on the moon if the film would still present the moon landing as a “universal” accomplishment. If treatment of blacks in pop culture is any indication, it is more likely that it would be presented as a uniquely black accomplishment. When whites accomplish something, it is the achievement of “humanity.” When another race does something, it becomes solely that race’s victory—even if an army of whites were the ones who made it ultimately possible.

(Republished from American Renaissance by permission of author or representative)
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  1. and now, there is no dept. of the ZOG more converged than NASA.

    riddled with dykes and ethnorcs.

    the unsurprising result, of course, has been a near-complete collapse of the Space Program.

    • Replies: @Mr Reynard
  2. Anonymous[159] • Disclaimer says:

    Gotta disagree with you. We should be hyping it as a black thing, encouraging our government to ship as many black guys to the moon or Mars as we can afford. Heck, tell’em they have the real Wakanda up there. They already believe blacks are supernatural great scientists, and Black Muslim theories only add to the craziness. It’s a black repatriation we could all get behind.

    Barring that, if expense is going to be too much of a burden to make much of a dent, well, we’ve got all of these oceans here in earth for them to colonize the sea floor. They are forever talking about splitting the world 50/50- well, I’m here to say, let’s split it 70-30 with them getting the bigger end of the stick, just to show them how sorry we are for slavery and all. They already went and made Aquaman into a non-white, so the path is clear for them to trailblaze away en masse.

    • Replies: @JSM
  3. Rational says:


    It is not possible to land on the moon. The moon does not have an atmosphere that can slow down the high speed vehicle approaching it, no ocean to fall into and float out off (like the old missions), and no runway, no air traffic control to guide any spacecraft to land.

    The rockets on the legs of the spacecraft could never be symmetric and would cause the spacecraft to spin instead of landing down smoothly.

    A powerful computer in the 60’s with 1G RAM and 64G secondary memory would have filled a cabinet, but has been miniaturized to the size of a cell phone or a small laptop. So by now, moon missions would be as routine as a flight to London. But they are not.

    Modern telescopes can see galaxies a million light years away—so how come no modern earth telescope has taken a photo of the American flag on the moon that was allegedly left behind?

    And that flag was waving in the wind—nice, except there is no atmosphere on the moon.

    The whole thing was filmed in a desert in Western USA.

  4. @Haxo Angmark

    Yupp.. Had a laugh, at the mathematical geniuses, better than a “Cray” computer in the stupid Schmutwood flick, “The Hidden Figures” ??
    As good as Caesar was a black African, so was the first Briton, King Arthur was black African, Lancelot as well, Beethoven, Mozart were black Africans, only Hitler wasn’t black, but white ??
    Yea ..

  5. ANON[362] • Disclaimer says:

    Admit that you are joking please. After all you gave us the clue with that “did not have the atmosphere than can slow down the high spread vehicle”. Yeah, like a rocket can only fail to fall to earth because of support from the party’s atmosphere…

  6. “still regarded as a triumph of white America” but isn’t that anachronistic because it wasn’t regarded as a triumph of white America – just of America? You are perhaps underestimating the rate of growth of now noticeable pathologies.

  7. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    • Replies: @phil
  8. F0337 says:

    The whole thing was filmed in a desert in Western USA.

    Every week, it seemed like, a detachment of Civil Rights Division lawyers would turn up from Washington, from the Justice Department

    Plus ça change, eh??

  9. Truth says:

    There wasn’t any moon landing. Like pretty much everything else you goofs believe, the Baal earth, evolution, the holocaust, etc., it’s a complete fraud. The astro-nauts have even admitted it.

    The moon is an independent light source, ergo, it’s probably quite hot.

    • Troll: Mike P
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  10. anon[337] • Disclaimer says:

    50 years of affirmative action is enough time to admit the limitations of its premise.

  11. Anonymous[123] • Disclaimer says:

    You’re dumb as a darkie.

    In 2008, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) SELENE lunar probe obtained several photographs showing evidence of Moon landings.

  12. Earth’s magnetic field protects us from deadly cosmic radiation and the extremely high velocity particles of the solar wind. Life as we know it would not be possible without our fabulous magnetic force field. It is no coincidence that humans haven’t traveled beyond low Earth orbit since the alleged moon landings so very long ago, despite all the leaps and bounds in materials science and computing power.

    From the horse’s own mouth…

    Space beyond low-Earth orbit is awash with intense radiation from the Sun and from deep galactic sources such as supernovas. Astronauts en route to the Moon and Mars are going to be exposed to this radiation, increasing their risk of getting cancer and other maladies. Finding a good shield is important. [exclamation mark!!]
    But, who knows, perhaps one day astronauts on the Moon and Mars will work safely, protected by a simple principle of electromagnetism even a child can understand.

    Wagging the Moondoggie, by the late Dave McGowan
    Essential reading for true believers (I used to be one).

    “But I saw it on TV. It must be true!”

  13. The ‘moon landings’, ha! With no one going back there for half a century! With NASA claiming they have “lost” all the original moon landing video tapes from all the trips! Plus NASA “lost” the tech files explaining how those moon walking guys got there! HA!

    3 days before his death on 7 March 1999, Stanley Kubrick confessed to fellow film-maker T Patrick Murray, that he had faked the films of the USA claimed 6 ‘moon landings’ of 1969-1972, an era when the CIA had its own film studios at Laurel Canyon, California

    “Kubrick made it clear that he had agreed to the interview for a very specific purpose. He knew that he was close to death & he wanted to get something monumental off his chest before he died. Almost immediately after sitting down, he proceeded to tell the stunned interviewer that the moon landings were fake & he himself had been the director in charge of the filming proceedings.

    T (T. Patrick Murray): That we didn’t land on the moon, you’re saying?

    K (Stanley Kubrick): No, we didn’t. It was not real.

    T: The moon landings were fake?

    K: A, a, a … fictional moon landing. A fantasy. It was not real.

    T: The moon landing in ’69 …

    K: Is total fiction. I perpetrated a huge fraud on the American public, involving the United States government & NASA, that the moon landings were faked, that the moon landings ALL were faked, & I was the person who filmed it.

    T: Why did they have to fake it? Why would they have to do that?

    K: Because it is impossible to get there.

    As is often the case, truth is given away by the Onion humour site … here they hilariously lampoon the official ‘men landing on the moon’ films Kubrick made for NASA, in a version with the ‘re-discovered original audio transmissions’ full of four-letter words & other irreverent language, 3 minutes, quite funny

  14. George says:

    Unsaid is that the Astronauts were extremely overqualified for the mostly automated Apollo program. You don’t need to be Einstein to be shot out of a canon. The Apollo program itself became a farce when they brought golf clubs to the moon.

    But the real recognition of uselessness of Moondoggle was when they let Skylab crash to the earth after years of nothing really important happening there. By the way, what’s going on in the ISS? Has that thing accomplished anything beyond being a jobs program? They aren’t even pretending the space workers they shoot up there are doing anything. Can anyone even name one of the ISS crew members?

    In 1989 a Japanese broadcaster paid to shoot a more or less typical journalist into space on a Soviet space mission. He more or less proved that most anyone could take part in automated space flight. And that for the most part, space sucks and people really won’t like it there. It’s still astounding how much money broadcasters had in the pre-internet world.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  15. Jason Liu says:

    His sculptures on wikipedia look pretty good though

  16. In 1967, Robert Lawrence Jr. became the first black astronaut.

  17. El Dato says:

    Please go away and set up a cult in New Mexico that the FBI/BATF can look into later.

  18. Logan says:

    Moon flag “waving” and Mythbusters.

    • Replies: @Andre Citroen
    , @Kiza
    , @ricky
  19. Gordo says:

    Denying the Moon landings is anti-White hate speech.

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  20. Sean says:

    I never realized it was such a thing back then. There is an advert on YouTube at the moment where a veteran astronaut says how there is a lot of technical understanding required now . However, if I recall rightly the one thing the first astronauts were extremely annoyed about (apart from the endless enemas they were subjected to) that when it came to the actual missions they were just passengers. It simply is not true that they required advanced aircraft handling skills and engineering smarts, and in that sense the Kennedy boys were quite realistic in thinking Ed Dwight had enough of the stuff to go.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @Anon
    , @denjae
  21. Just from the photo, Captain Dwight appears to be the beneficiary of significant European admixture.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  22. Hibernian says:

    They needed the skills to handle emergencies.

    • Replies: @Liza
  23. Hank Yobo says:

    “at the achievement coming from America”

    Some major players were recent emigrants from Trump’s ancestral homeland. They were the real Hidden Figures in the space race. Perhaps Armstrong should have planted the Swastika beside “Old Glory.”

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  24. @Rational

    You are absolutely correct. I can only wonder how long all these fool’s will buy this bullshit. The in-ability to think critically and logically leads us to where we are today, a nation of brain dead, easily controlled sheep.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  25. Anon[162] • Disclaimer says:

    when it came to the actual missions they were just passengers … Ed Dwight had enough of the stuff to go.

    If that is true, then 10,000 white servicemen also had enough smarts to go, and more smarts than Dwight.

    This is just the MO of “lower the standards so some black guys qualify,” then “don’t pay attention to rank order of qualification using the standards and choose to obtain a desired percentage representation.” In other words, affirmative action.

    Then the white guys need to babysit the black guy and check on his every move, and the black guy thinks that’s microagression, and the black guy complains that he “has to work twice as hard as the white guys to succeed,” which is to be expected because he’s half as smart.

  26. Mike P says:

    You are right – the moon landing story is as full of holes as a Swiss cheese, and “wagging the moon doggie” is both hilarious and informative, and excellent read. The good news is of course that a black man can still be the first to walk the moon! If that isn’t cause for celebration, I don’t know what is.

  27. This might be a believable article if it wasn’t based on one of the biggest lies that has been perpetrated on mankind in all of history. All you beLIEvers do yourself a favor and spend some time investigating this Hollywood style space adventure. Here is a good place to start. I might add all this research is done by PHD level mathematicians, physicist, and engineers.
    “Over the years this Apollo investigation has involved analysis of the Apollo lunar surface imagery – concluding that they were staged. Then the serious underperformance problems with the Saturn V became apparent. The presence of hazardous space radiation that was potentially endangering astronauts was not resolved by 1969/70. Nor has it been to this day. And the same applies to the essential skip re-entry technique for lunar returns. Now it appears that at least in the case of Apollo 13, the mission could have aborted shortly after take off with the command module downing in the Atlantic.”

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @Mike P
  28. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:

    You forgot to mention the earth is flat, and Jewhovah sits on a Jewthrone above the earth.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Truth
  29. @AlreadyPublished

    McGowan’s “Wagging the Moondoggie” explain’s the reason’s why the whole sham was perpetrated better than any author I have read. He was an amazing man and is sorely missed.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  30. Iberiano says:

    I’ll say this, they went to the moon, and saw something that they didn’t want us to know was up there/out there.

  31. JFK is worshipped by the ALT RIGHT as a pro-white POTUS. But all they are doing is projecting their fantasies onto JFK.

    JFK wrote a book funded by the ADL making the case for racially transforming America…..The passage of the 1965 Nonwhite Legal Immigrant Increase Act was reprobate Teddy’s permanent monument of racial extermination to his Irish Catholic Cockroach brother POTUS JFK…

    Larger point:the integration of the US Military directly led to the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act….This was a short hop and a skip to the passage of THE 1965 NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN EXTERMINATION ACT…….ONTO THE FILTHY KENYAN DUNG BEETLE POTUS…..up next:
    Hindu-Jamaican POTUS Kamala Harris and her viciously anti-white Attorney General Preet Bharara…..and I didn’t even mention integration of the Dixies’ Universities at GUN POINT by the filthy Irish Cockroach Brothers JFK AND RFK…..

    Much larger point:The Cold War drove the march down the road towards the passage of the 1965 NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN EXTERMINATION ACT!!!

    Way larger point:Native Born White America should have, and could have lived in peace with the Russian Commies…..for it was a Russian Commie….Comrade Andrie Martynov’s mentor at the Russian Naval Academy…..who saved Native Born White America from being turned into lumps of charcoal during the Cuban Missile Crisis by the subhuman Irish Catholic cockroach from Boston…..JFK…..

    • Replies: @Liza
  32. bomag says:

    Has that thing accomplished anything beyond being a jobs program?

    Well, most human endeavors are essentially jobs programs; just hanging out in low earth orbit is accomplishment enough if it leads to more knowledge about how to keep and maintain such things.

  33. Rags says:

    Gdamn Mr. Unz, you need to critically examine this moon landing horseshit with same rigor you applied to the holahoax story or Kennedy’s assassination. We haven’t been back there since Nixon left office. Hmm. To print this article with the currently available and well grounded skepticism is shoddy to say the least.

  34. Mike P says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    There is plenty of evidence of the fakery outside “peer-reviewed science”, but we can find enough within it, too. Here is one example that deals with the radiation problem. The study Summary of current radiation dosimetry results on manned spacecraft has this to say, in its “Summary and Conclusions”:

    Data are now available on measured dose rates in spacecraft at low altitude (<300 km), and low inclination (~28.5°) Earth orbit. … In a Spacelab type of orbit, the dose rate is about a factor of two higher than on typical flights … For higher altitude orbits of ~500km, such as in [the Space Shuttle mission] STS-41C, the dose rate is at least a factor of ten higher than on typical flights.

    The same paper also lists – without specifying any orbital parameters beyond just stating “lunar orbital flight” – the doses measured on the Apollo missions. With all Apollo missions but one, the daily radiation dose falls within the range delimited by the (low Earth orbit) Gemini missions on the low end, and the Space Shuttle missions on the high end. Apollo 11, in particular, is on par with Gemini 6 at 22 mrad/day.

    The sole exception, Apollo 14, exceeds the upper limit by a factor of ~2, for a daily dose of 127 mrad. Apollo 13, in spite of the astronauts allegedly having camped out for a long time in the thin-walled lunar lander, is on par with Apollo 10 and with STS-41C at 57 mrad/day.

    Now, while I don’t know the exact dose an astronaut should receive on a flight to the moon and back, it is inconceivable that it should be no higher than on a regular low Earth orbit mission. How to make sense of this? For once, I’d like to quote wikipedia:

    Occam’s razor is the problem-solving principle that the simplest solution tends to be the right one. When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions.

    The simple solution called for by William of Occam is this: The U.S. government always lies. It is the only “conspiracy theory” you will ever need. All scientific enigmas – building collapses, magic bullets, protection from radiation in space – are easily solved with its application.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  35. Unfortunately, the record in the US military is utterly bankrupt when it comes to the qualifications of any and every first black anything.Couple of problems with the narrative and given the supposed vast knowledge that Mr Wolf supposedly had regarding his subject matter — he seems woefully ignorant of the nation’s military history regarding it’s black members.

    President Kennedy had no intention of allowing a black man first into anything aside from being a show piece. And an article that makes the suggestion is loaded with disingenuous nonsense merely to pander the politics. Unfortunately for people who even a tad of the military history of the US knows that supposed men of sound character, top brass, have been maligning qualified, talented, skilled, capable and exceptional black service members — oft exceeding even their white counterparts.

    Now I am a fan of sorts of Gen Yeager, but his integrity here is as about solid as a bowl of rice pudding. One doesn’t have to dig deep into the record to find that his comments are textbook, almost word for word the same arguments made about blacks and flying in world war I and world war II. I am a little disappointed that Gen Yeager wasn’t more creative. Laugh — sound like the same men opposed to blacks flying since there was flight.

    The other issue that smacks of Gen Yeager is his comments, if repeated accurately that their were other m ore qualified pilots with better engineering back grounds. So based on this rendering, Gen Yeager doesn’t comment that he and the others don’t make the obvious argument — get better equipped engineering black pilots. He claims they exist, but they don’t make the obvious rebuttal. If it was not about skin color – that’s the response.

    “If you want to change the polity, at least get so and so or so and so who has this degree or this training that exceeds that of so and so.”

    Let’s be honest, while I revere the first of the space program, the idea that these were the best pilots the military had is questionable. Gen Yeager learned by rote and experience — he had no degree from anywhere, so his qualification tale doesn’t quite make it out of the kiddie pool. Without the intervention of Gen Eisenhower, Gen Yeager would have never seen combat in the European theater after he was shot down — so I am not going belittle the us of friends in high places. Apparently even Pres Washington had more than a little help from his friends in high places. General Yeager had the one quality that each of envy — desire, tenacity, and shear will not to be denied. Not unlike the first black men to eventually disprove every argument the military has ever made about the “less capable” blacks joining their ranks. It is an embarrassing history.

    Given the history of the political gamesmanship with knowledgeable smart enough to grasp that not having gotten rid of the black population the country is going to have to face up to its treatment enmasse, the politically astute select a black who amiable and compliant or at least reserved enough to not cause a ruckus — and for goodness won’t fight back directly. And no offense to Capt. Dwight — men of restraint are to be deeply honored in representing blacks in such a manner. However, that more than anything else was probably the primary reason, he was selected. Apparently this author thinks that Jackie Robinson was selected because he was the best black baseball player. He was selected because he promised not to fight back —

    I can well imagine, why the airforce did not select the pilots from the “Redtail squadron” — given the rather tenacious rebellious nature of many test pilots — all with degrees in hand and many with engineering degrees — Gen. Yeager would have had his hands full. Given that the first pilots were all but “spam in cans” I suspect that had Capt. Dwight remained in the program he would have been as successful as the rest.

    Now Gen. Yeager may be spot on, but, I suspect there’s more than a little rep an d turf protection going on here. Apparently this author hasn’t spent much time around pilots — or fisherman for that matter, the ability to know when a yarn is being spun, is an acquired skill. In this case, one need go no further than the local library.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  36. phil says:

    You are misinterpreting him, or you can say that he did not express himself clearly. When he says, “we didn’t,” he means “we didn’t keep it going,” meaning “we did not CONTINUE to fund manned missions to the moon.” Aldrin did not mean to say that they had NEVER gone to the moon.

  37. As for the film, it;s a tall order, given the films that have been made regarding the US missions into space, to the moon it reads a tad anticlimactic. As for the business that the program was some kind of human universal achievement — and not planting the flag –“Nuts”.

    The entire enterprise was born out of competing with the Soviet Union. Laugh – the point was to plant the flag. Our entire space program (with or without black astronauts) was a military endeavor to out do the the Soviet union. After having “lost” so many battles along the way, planting the flag on the moon was akin to capturing the flag — for those who have been bruised up playing the game — they will get my point.

    I have to side with the president that not including that is a bizarre and disappointing choice. And the US should expect every government dollar in making the film returned.

    Unfortunately for the film makers, planting the flag was an essential part of the entire event. Warts and all.

    God Bless the US

    • Agree: The Alarmist
  38. Liza says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    No opinion one way or the other on the Irish, not sure what to make of them. There does seem to be a lot of liberalism, alcoholism, general dreaminess and poetry-writing among them. But in any case, if you dislike the Irish, there is a prowhite website that might interest you – The man in charge there does not consider them to be European.

    Just trying to be helpful.

    • Replies: @Alden
  39. Why would the Kazarian-Turkic turned Ashkenazi Jew allow European whites to get together, so that he could be drowned in the adversarial sea of Christianity?

    • Replies: @Spartoi Dragon
  40. Kersey

    TRUE STORY….RUDY!!!!…..RUDY!!!!……RUDY!!!!!!… less than tw0-three minutes ago……..standing in front of me on line at a trendy coffee shop….down the road from Mr. and Mrs. John Derbyshire…….I reckon around a quarter-half a mile…..Tall Irish Wall Street Guy with a Notre Dame cap on standing in fr0nt of RUDY!!!…..turns to RUDY!!!!:”RUDY RUETTEGER what are you doing here today?….Rudy Ruetteger points to the sports memorabilia store across the street with the big sign:”RUDY RUETTEGER SIGNING AUTOGRAPHS TODAY!!!……..

    Just had to do it:Now sitting down listening to Joe Strummer’s last performance two weeks before he croaked singing RUDY!!!….RUDY!!!….GET BACK!!! with Mick Jones…..Mick Jones who these days tweets all day about the Philadelphia Flyers…Philadelphia Eagles….Philadelphia 76s…..and Philadelphia’s baseball team……what the fuck happened to the gd REVOLUTION?…….True story…line around the block for RUDY!!!….RUDY!!!…RUDY!!!!….just took a look outside at store sign…spelling correction:RUETTIGER…..

  41. @Gordo

    Especially because German rocket engineers played such a big role in the space program.

  42. @Anonymous

    Everyone, including yourself should know by now that photos can be altered easily enough. But Aldrin’s candid admission to the eight year old’s honest question should carry a lot more weight, don’t you think?

  43. anonymous[231] • Disclaimer says:

    What? This can’t be true. I’ve seen the movies The Martian and Hidden Figures and learned how crucial minorities have been in our space program. Since I don’t read books I rely on movies for my history lessons and I’ve certainly learned a lot from them.

  44. Anon[132] • Disclaimer says:

    The moon landing seemed to be a uniquely America First endeavor to me (and all of America at the time). Gosling is smoking too much Hollywood Producer cock and has lost his ability to speak credibly.

  45. @Rational

    Come on, man … I used to play Lunar Lander on my HP-65 … The Real Men who landed on the Moon in 1969 didn’t need a Cray.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  46. KenH says:

    “When my protector was killed, I was out,” he (Dwight) said.

    Meaning he lost his undeserved black skin privilege. Dwight looks like a mulatto or quadroon much like the “black” ladies from Hidden Figures. Still in search of the pure, coal black negro who’s on the same level as extraordinary white Europeans.

    I wonder if (((Hollywood))) will make a black history month movie about Ed Dwight and how he would have been first on the moon if not for white racism and supremacy? Then blacks can emerge from the theater with yet another manufactured grievance and the belief that the white devil cheated them out of another accomplishment. They wuz astronauts as well as kangz!!

    The moon landing isn’t a uniquely American accomplishment but it is a U.S. and German venture and uniquely white racial enterprise. It was German rocket propulsion engineers Arthur Rudolph and Wernher Van Braun and their teams that developed the technology that got us into space. The U.S. furnished the money, research and test facilities, launch vehicles and astronauts.

    If any of the rocket scientists or engineers would have been black or Jewish I guarantee (((Hollywood))) would have made movies about them replete with Jewish and negro triumphalism.

    • Replies: @Avery
  47. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    One paragraph about a new movie’s rewriting of history disrespecting Uncle Sam on the moon that clumsily segues to recycled racebait. (Mr. Phelps’s book was published in 1994.) I would have guessed the author to be Mr. Weissberg, except that this has been proofread.

    Unworthy of The Unz Review.

  48. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Actually, my take is that Barak Obama bears a striking similarity in appearance to Captain Dwight; just another thing that makes one wonder about that guy identified as BHO’s father on that cobbled together multi-layer pdf file they called his birth certificate.

  49. Alden says:

    My Dad was one of the model makers. Mom bought Ken dolls and sewed the little astronaut outfits. We kids were there as grips. I was the gaffer and bossed the crew.

    Sometimes if you look closely you can see the knitting needles we used to move the Ken doll around

  50. @EliteCommInc.

    General Yaeger started as an enlisted aircraft mechanic, so he literally knew the nuts, bolts, rivets and plumbing of aircraft and how it all fit together, which oddly enough made him every bit as valuable as a test pilot as an engineering degree helped others qualify, and he had the practical experience of thousands of hours of flying to fill in the gaps. Your complaint about his experience is specious at best. If he said Captain Dwight wasn’t cut out for the programme, he probably wasn’t.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  51. @Spartoi Dragon

    Sorry! The comment # 41 is in response to # 33… WfBM!

  52. Alden says:

    The southern confederate revanchists consider that the confederates would have won the civil war* were it not for the “Papal Navy” shipping hordes of Irish pagan Catholics to New York to join the union army.

    The revanchists claim that all of catholic Europe cheered when the evil Yankees won. Nothing to do with New England Puritan business men.

    Pardon me, The War of Northern Aggression or why I stopped reading amren. That and the endless evangelicals posting pro Israel and bible propaganda. My opinion on Taylor’s skirting the Jew issue is his evangelical base.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  53. Alfa158 says:

    Mr. Kersey, I love your work, but wanted to point out another, and perhaps even more important reason for the lack of a flag planting scene. All movies have to be distributed in China to be financially successful and their government decides which movies will be allowed in. For example, Apollo 13 was not shown in China when it was released because it showed White Americans accomplishing heroic feats in space, and that rustled the Chinese. Hollywood knows that showing the flag being planted would almost certainly kill the chance for this movie to make Chinese money. Even if they clipped the flag planting out of the Chinese release, it would be known that the scene was there in other markets. Say what you will about the Chinese government, but they have the virtue that at least they don’t hate their own people.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
  54. Mike P says:

    NASA didn’t just fake all the imagery, it faked it poorly. With these images, for example, the LRV is tiny and amorphous, compared to the distinct, wide pairwise tracks it supposedly left. Tracks end nowhere – are we to believe that the buggy returned in precisely the tracks it came? There aren’t any footprints leading from the “final parking spot” back to the “descent stage” – did the astronauts levitate from the buggy to the LEM?

    The whole Apollo program is a fraud. Interestingly, NASA later became the midwife for the global warming fraud. Below is a picture of NASA’s current climate scientist in thief, err, chief, Gavin Schmidt:

    And here, you can see him running from a real climate scientist:

    NASA is just an outlet of U.S. government fraudulent “science.”

  55. Alden says:

    No no no. The earth sits on a magic turtle’s back.

    And Apollo rides his chariot back and forth every 12 hours.

  56. Che Guava says:

    What a load of crap. If I were to go back in time, and have some responsibility to advise your prexident, I would have no choice but to recommend the advice of Yeager.

    The ISS of now, as Mr. Israel Shamir has said, is something of a joke.

    News is getting out. Some overly-entitled woman tried to sabotage it. She was from, probably not of, the USA, but a citizen, from the ludicrous processes, and she was throwing a tantrum.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  57. @Hank Yobo

    With Sputnik, Bob Hope joked that “their Germans were better than our Germans.”

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
  58. @Mike P

    There are the Van Allen radiation belts to consider. The Earth’s magnetic fields cause energetic charged particles emanating from the Sun to collect in zones near the Earth but outside the atmosphere, except in the far North or South near the poles where these particles bombard the atmosphere and create light displays. These particles have enough energy to constitute harmful radiation.

    Low earth orbit is below the belts, lunar missions cross the belts quickly and are mostly outside, but higher earth orbit flights are closer to the belts and have the highest radiation levels.

    Crews on or near the Moon, however, are vulnerable to extreme spikes in radiation called solar flares. NASA kept an eye on solar activity to mitigate the problem but there was still that risk.

    Wasn’t there a TV fictional depiction of that hazard, where a solar flare happens with actor Harry Hamlin’s character up in the Apollo mothership, where he can turn the bulk of the Service Module along with the heaviest portion of the Command Module reentry heat shield to provide shielding from the solar flare, but his two crewmates on the lunar surface hurry back to the Lunar Module to leave the lunar surface where they are unprotected, but they don’t make it back to the mothership in time?

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  59. Avery says:

    Both US and Soviet space programs owe their success to the pioneering work of (Nazi) German rocket scientists and engineers. US got some of their best, if not _the_ best, in the live persons of Wernher Van Braun et. al., as you wrote, in addition to the plans, prototypes, etc.

    Soviets got the plans and prototypes.
    Don’t know if they also “recruited” any of the German rocket scientists.

    Same with the jet engine: US and USSR got a huge head start when they got the plans and prototypes of the revolutionary jet engine developed by Germans from defeated Nazi Germany.

    Nevertheless, both US and USSR had the industrial and the scientific/engineering educational base and the “culture” to successfully build on what they got from Germans.

    As an interesting side-note: in the Soviet times, most consumer products in SU were shoddy and of poor quality. Eastern European stuff was marginally better. The best and highly sought after were the East German design & manufacture consumer products of technical nature (e.g. cameras, binoculars, tape players and recorders and such.)

    • Replies: @KenH
  60. @The Alarmist

    my father bought me a lunar lander that actually flew and one could practice lunar landings.

  61. @The Alarmist

    You are missing the issue. it is true that Gen Yeager got cut his teeth as a flight and general mechanic. He also cut his teeth flying. He was shot down once and hard it not been for Gen eisehower, he would not have flown in combat again. However, his tenacity and the fact that he escaped and aided another pilot escape minus a leg (the other pilot – quite a tale of who Gen Yeager is) considered quite the man — Upon returning to fighter commands in P51’s he went back to fighting. where his tenaciousness and skill earned him accolades. But during the time we out of the fight he served making bombs.

    I have news for you, other pilots were outstanding. Other pilots aided in ways beyond beyond flying —

    The argument is over qualifications and one of the qualifications and one of those qualifications — was a degree. No one is dismembering Gen Yeager’s service. But he’s knows and I know that this business of qualifications has a lot of — well, qualifications —

    the tell — not grabbing more qualified black test pilots if that was the case . . . He and i also know that tutoring did not extend to merely Capt Dwight.

    Side note: and I hate to say it — but it’s such a staple of our country’s polity. When it comes to blacks we require that they have routinely twice as much on paper than whites. It’s a very hard truth because I like my country (even though on occassion — hate fits the bill). b ut the head games with have played with blacks is simply unjustifiable.

    Gen Yeagor was unique among men — and that includes his white counter parts. Not because he was the brightest build in the room. But because he was abnormally fearless and that fearlessness combined with tenacity and skill has made him an american icon.

    black men among whites who are abnormally fearless are referred to as crazy, trouble makers, “too good for their britches” arrogant, yada yada yada

    Hence, Capt Dwight — a nice black, intelligent well spoken, accomplished and polite . . . he’ll go with the flow.

    Gen.Yeager — Nothing however impresses me more than the love he has for his wife and she for him —- that exceeds any accomplishment he made on ground or air in my view.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  62. Like you need an engineering degree to sit in a tin can.

    You people amaze me. It’s just like the ol’ shirruf back in the good ol’ fifties. I mean, that stupid. And you think blacks are dumber than you! That’s how dumb people always think. Dumb people like you always think they are smarter than others. Smart people don’t. It’s a fact. Ask your statisticians. They’ll tell you.

    • Replies: @hunor
  63. @Alden

    The South probably would have won if not for it’s biggest Jew traitor Judah Benjamin.

  64. Agent76 says:

    Oct 19, 2016 Revolutionary Movements Then and Now: Black Power and Black Lives Matter @ 7:20 program begins

    Fifty years ago, Stokely Carmichael first publicly uttered the phrase “Black Power” at a rally during the March Against Fear in Mississippi. Four months later, the Black Panther Party was founded in Oakland, California kicking off the movement to secure empowerment and improve the standing of black people in the United States.

    • Replies: @36 ulster
  65. Simpsons did it.

    It’s interesting to note that as late as the mid 90s, tokenism could still include working class white males. The contempt that you’re expected to feel for such people had yet to fully devolve the Homer archetype from an object of conflicted sympathy to a deplorable cartoonish monster.

    It would take only the slightest adjustment of tint and hue settings to put this episode on the SPLC hate list.

  66. @EliteCommInc.

    Ike’s intervention was to override the rule that kept former evadees like Yaeger from risking being shot down again and, if captured, compromising the escape route/partisans who helped the first evasion. Ike was also under a lot of pressure to put Patton out to pasture, but kept him in the fight. People say a lot of bad things about Ike, but you can’t fault him for keeping his fiercest war-fighting assets in the field.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  67. If a person really thinks about it the Hollywood creeps would of scrouged and completely ruined this white man accomplishment if ther was even a wifff of fraud or deception.

  68. @Che Guava

    “News is getting out. Some overly-entitled woman tried to sabotage it. She was from, probably not of, the USA, but a citizen, from the ludicrous processes, and she was throwing a tantrum.”

    IIRC, she is making life hell for her fellow American astronauts over a plumbing problem, and they slipped into the Soyuz and drilled a small hole into it in the hopes of forcing an early return to Earth.

  69. My vomitting on the legacy of JFK has no bounds. The legacy of JFK is the mass extermination of the THE HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN MAJORITY WORKING CLASS starting on Nov 3 2020…..

    JFK was Bill Clinton’s inspiration….it takes one cockroach to know another….via a trail of cockroach pheromones….

  70. Hank Yobo says:

    Thanks for the Memory. Maybe the threat of a Gulag camp was the incentive “their Germans” needed during the Sputnik years.

  71. @The Alarmist

    That’s correct. Nothing in my comments suggests anything negative about Gen. Eisenhower.

    Correction (a little tidying up):

    But he knows and I know that this business of qualifications has a lot of — well, qualifications —

    the tell — not grabbing more qualified black test pilots if that was the case . . . He and I also know that tutoring did not extend to merely Capt Dwight.

    Side note: and I hate to say it — but it’s such a staple of our country’s polity. When it comes to blacks we require that they have routinely twice as much on paper than whites. It’s a very hard truth because I like my country (even though on occasion — hate fits the bill). but the head games the country has played and continues to play with blacks is simply unjustifiable.

  72. Anonymous [AKA "Joe Harrow"] says:
    @Inquiring Mind

    I once asked a physicist I know about the problem of high energy solar particles being deadly to astronauts going to the moon and he said the problem was solved back in the 60’s. Apparently, all it involved was to make the skin of the spacecraft double walled. The energetic particles would come through the first skin and change direction (kind of like light refracting when it goes through a lens). This change of direction takes a lot of energy out of the particle and it then doesn’t have enough momentum to go through the second skin thus protecting the astronauts. This sounded like a brilliantly simple (Occum’s Razor type) solution to the problem.

    • Replies: @Kiza
  73. @Alfa158

    The could make a slightly edited version for any “sensitive” market on the planet. They could even plant a Wakandan flag for distribution in Africa.

    • Replies: @36 ulster
  74. @Logan

    Oh sure. Mythbusters, TV propaganda at its best and so believable.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  75. buckwheat says:

    Complete BULLSHIT! This has got to be the dumbest piece of crap ever written. Why not write one on how a black could have discovered gravity, or invented the telephone or even a wheel. All you need to do is look at how they screwed up Rhodesia and South Africa. The still defecate in the streets in Africa so yes a black man could have been first on the moon……in the movies.

  76. Meimou says:

    And that flag was waving in the wind—nice, except there is no atmosphere on the moon

    The moon did have an atmosphere, that’s why the flag was waving, the fact that the moon had earth like conditions was the real cover up.

  77. JSM says:

    Better yet.

    Let’s build real Oneill Colonies, rotating cylindrical Space Habitats. Make em luxurious, spare no expense, true Elysiums.

    When the non-Whites start howling that we Whites have stolen all the best resources to build our Space Palaces, we’ll nod shamefacedly.

    And to make it up to ’em, we’ll ship em all up on the next rocketships. Give them careful instruction how to maintain the Life Support Equipment. Even set timers for 3 months to remind them to change the air filters.
    Once they’re comfortable, we’ll GIVE it to them. All of it. We’ll all go back to down, all of us, all us White people… to do our penance for our obnoxious inventiveness by spending our days cleaning up the pollution here on Earth while we wait.

    Six months oughta be long enough.

    Then, trusting in the non-White propensity for shiftlessness and NOT doing necessary maintenance, we then go back up after the six months, change the air filters, unclog the Life Support Systems, toss all the dead bodies out the airlocks and tidy up a bit…
    Then we use our Space Habitats as platforms to finally achieve our Manifest Destiny of a Solar System Spanning Civilization of White people.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  78. @Alden

    No no no. The earth sits on a magic turtle’s back.

    No, no, no, where do you flat-earthers get this crap? Tortugas, not turtles! C’mon guys, whatdya’ need a refresher course? It’s all tortugas nowadays, all the way down… with a couple of tortoises near the bottom.


    Thanks Mr. Kersey, for that interesting historical column. I’d read The Right Stuff long ago, so I couldn’t remember the Ed Dwight part. I don’t think that was in the movie (of course).

  79. @Alden

    ooops, I am so, so, so, so, sorry… should have been “C’mon, guys and girls …” I didn’t realize it was Miss 257 till now.

  80. Ron Unz says:

    It looks like a huge number of Moon Hoax people are on this comment-thread, so I’ll ask them the same question I did a year or two ago…

    During the 1960s, the US and the USSR were in a desperate space-race for national prestige, which the US finally won by reaching the Moon first. But since the USSR had a large space program of its own, if the US Moon landing was just a hoax, why didn’t they reveal it, thereby totally destroying America’s international credibility?

  81. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    Putin believes in (1) Moon landing and (2) 9/11 official story.

    • Replies: @ricky
  82. Mike P says:
    @Ron Unz

    Who knows what cost-benefit analysis the Soviet government made at the time – grain? Detente? Computer chips? Uranium? Maybe their own space program was full of hoaxes, too?

    Just consider the analogy to 9/11. Francesco Cossiga, a highly respected Italian who had to step down from the presidency of his country after acknowledging his involvement in the false flag terror operation “Gladio”, stated in 2008 that all the secret services of the world knew that 9/11 had been a Mossad/CIA operation; and insiders like Hamed Gul (Pakistan/ISI) and Andreas von Buelow (Germany/Parliamentary Secret Service Control Committee) made similar statements even earlier, very shortly after the event.

    Yet, almost no foreign government has spoken openly about it. Should we therefore conclude that CIA and Mossad are innocent after all? This kind of reasoning is fruitless.

  83. @George

    Unsaid is that the Astronauts were extremely overqualified for the mostly automated Apollo program. You don’t need to be Einstein to be shot out of a canon. The Apollo program itself became a farce when they brought golf clubs to the moon.

    Automated, my ass. That entire Grumman lander didn’t have one-hundredth of a percent of the computing power of your cheapest trashiest Moto-knockoff cell phone. The one pilot was calling out vertical speed, altitude, fuel remaining (in minutes and SECONDS) while heading to a landing zone that was not mapped like your neighborhood in Google Earth. The other guy was controlling the single rocket motor and the thrusters for orientation around 3 axes, flying in 2-dimensions, and controlling speed of the 3rd.

    End up at a landing site with bad terrain? There’s no going back up – you’re dead.
    Run out of fuel at 50 ft. up? You’re dead.
    Get too fast too low? You’re dead.

    At the launch, a launch with everything working perfectly is one thing, but these guys had to be ready for every conceivable major failure, and they would have a very short time to do whatever procedure might have saved their butts if one occurred. Try skydiving sometime, George. You don’t train for a perfect jump.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  84. KenH says:
    @Ron Unz

    But since the USSR had a large space program of its own, if the US Moon landing was just a hoax, why didn’t they reveal it, thereby totally destroying America’s international credibility?

    I’m neutral, but you’re presupposing that the USSR knew the U.S. moon landing was a hoax (if it was a hoax). Just because they had a space program doesn’t mean they knew everything about ours.

    It does appear that in 2015 a spokesman for a Russian government investigative agency raised doubts about missing evidence of the moon landings:

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  85. @Ron Unz

    That’s the political way of looking at it, and I don’t disagree. The common-sense way of looking at it is that, how was one to silence the hundreds of thousands of engineers and technicians that worked for Grumman, North American, Douglas, Lockheed, and Rocketdyne that built the thing?

    Oh, they didn’t build anything? How about the hundreds of thousands of the public that saw the Saturn V’s lift off from Cape Canaveral? Let me guess, they didn’t go up very far and all the splashdowns were faked too. OK, what about the thousands of Navy sailors that were on the ships that recovered these brave men out of the ocean?

    How many millions of people can you get to shut up for 50-odd years? (Yes, I read Steve Sailer’s post re: Bletchley Park and Enigma.)

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @gregor
  86. KenH says:

    True, the U.S. and USSR weren’t exactly rocket science nincompoops but the German rocket scientists along with their teams of engineers and technicians did much to accelerate the progress each nation’s space programs by a decade or possibly more.

    It’s said that East Germany was the only nation where communism worked relative to other communist nations.

  87. @Andre Citroen

    No argument with Logan, really, but yeah, the Mythbusters are a couple of pretend-engineers that do haphazard experiments and don’t ever work out any theory to go along. Then there’s that beret … the guy’s not French, and he’s not in the special forces, so WTF?

  88. Sam J. says:

    You my Man Mr. JSM are a genius. We should get on this right away. We should make sure all the resources used to build the Habatats are from the Moon and the Asteroid belt. As soon as the infrastruture is built we can build as many as we want.

    If your interested in Space colonies I bet you would be interested in this too. Man made vortex powered Islands. Read it it’s good. It would take a multimillionaire to open the new frontier on Earth. The great essay by Jim Bowery,”Exponential Remediation of Civilization’s Footprint” here,

    There’s a thing called a vortex chimney. It uses the upper atmosphere for a heat sink [cold] and the tropics oceans for heat. It can crate a vast amount of power. (The same can be said of molten salt reactors which I prefer but Bowery picked the vortex chimney. If the votex doesn’t work or if you want Islands in a more northerly latitude you could use molten salt reactors. ). They make tremendous amounts of power. Anyways with this much power you can make this stuff called carbo crete and pour a whole new country that floats anywhere the water is warm. Even better with the excess power the things can reproduce themselves exponentially as one can make many more and each new one made can multiply many more. He says,”…A system with a 3 month doubling time could remediate the environmental impact of civilization’s 7 billion people in under 15 years…”. The numbers are real. Let’s say you had a multimillionaire to sponsor it and he set up a go fund me campaign selling condos on these man made Islands. Now my devious mind has come up with a way for Whites to survive if it gets too bad in the US. The technology for the vortex Island is mostly upfront cost and after you build the first one the cost for subsequent ones drops to almost zero. Have you ever heard of the phrase,”If Whites had their own country it wouldn’t be like this”? Well there’s at least one billion Whites on Earth. If each one gave two dollars in return for a apartment could $2 billion dollars be enough to kick off a new White country? At $200 a piece you would only need 100 million. At $2,000 it would only take 10 million. I bet you could get 10 million to cough up $2,000 if it was a known entrepreneur. If Musk sponsored this I bet he would get the $2 billion and more. I think this could be done. In return you get an apartment in a building unfinished and citizenship on the collective vortex powered country.

    Read Jim’s essay. The numbers are there and the tech, while not totally fleshed out, has all been done. The vortex has been tested but not at the height and power level you’d need. To build the first vortex powered Island you’d need to use natural gas and natural gas generators. Once you had one they would produce materials continuously with each one coming on line vastly increasing the power.

    If the first Man on the Moon had been the Black guy he would probably still be there because he would have crashed that tricky landing instead of landing properly.

    • Replies: @JSM
  89. Erebus says:

    Do I see another American Pravda in the making?

    Having exploded the myths underpinning the Jewish hijacking of America and its brand, is Ron Unz now going to set his sights on one of the foundational myths of Brand America itself?

  90. Sam J. says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “…The one pilot was calling out vertical speed, altitude, fuel remaining (in minutes and SECONDS) while heading to a landing zone that was not mapped like your neighborhood in Google Earth. The other guy was controlling the single rocket motor and the thrusters for orientation around 3 axes, flying in 2-dimensions, and controlling speed of the 3rd…”

    It was a difficult and very close thing. The only test bed they had for simulating this was so scary they crashed it and then gave up it.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  91. denjae says:

    It simply is not true that they required advanced aircraft handling skills and engineering smarts,

    You were there during the last 30 seconds of Armstrong’s descent to the moon . . . . . RIGHT ?

    You were there on APOLLO 13’s aborted return to earth . . . RIGHT ?

    You were there when astronauts came around to critique the gear you were building for their out-of-this-world use . . . RIGHT ?

    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

    Anybody leading any work related to APOLLO had likely been competitively schooled in a meritocracy-based STEM program.

    Or had equivalent “work-one’s-way-up” experience in similar engineering endeavors.


    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

    Me ??? I was a kid engineer . . . working and hanging with:

    Guys who had crash-engineered the Manhattan Project. And were then crash-engineering SNAP devices for APOLLO.

    Guys (the handful) who had graduated as Aerospace majors at the gear school that I attended. And were then doing graduate work in orbital mechanics, a’la Crenshaw.

    (Which just might have been why Neil Armstrong chose to come there as a Professor of Engineering upon his return from the moon.) . . . . . Birds of a feather, ya know.

    • Replies: @Sean
  92. @Ron Unz

    A humorous but methodical debunking of the moon hoaxers taken from an entirely different angle can be found at

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @ricky
  93. @Sam J.


    That’s called flying not astro-physics or anything related.

    pilot, co-pilot, navigator . . . and during an emergency each doing their training —

    Calling out location, speed, height, etc from an instrument panel is hardly a new practice

    But what is described is why it commonly understood the most important aspects of flying is take offs and landings no one with an engineering degree minus that crucial skill set and flight training and experience could pull it off —- not manually.

  94. Glaivester says: • Website

    Anyone do an image search for “African Space Program?” (Safe Search off)

    • Replies: @Liza
  95. Anonymous [AKA "Bonf"] says:

    This is no joke. It’s impossible to stop a rocket in space without an atmosphere. It was all a great con. Just don’t tell a former astronaut that as they have been trained to punch you if they hear someone make the accusation.

    • Replies: @Kiza
    , @Mr. Anon
  96. @Ron Unz

    The answer to your question (a question that neatly evades all the evidence against the moon landings) is in Dave McGowan’s “Wag the Moondoggie” series. Perhaps you should read it.

    Actually, after studying the image above, of one of the alleged Luna probes, I’m going to have to say that the Soviets were lying their asses off almost as much as NASA was. There is no way I’m going to buy into the notion that the Soviets sent a freeform abstract sculpture, which appears to have been constructed by Fred Sanford and Granny Clampett, on a 234,000 mile journey from the Earth to the Moon. Careful study of the central area of the photo, however, does reveal why the spacecraft were known as ‘probes.’ I wonder if they were capable of performing docking maneuvers?

    The Soviet Union and the U.S. were run by the same supremacist tribe of self-appointed chosen ones, like a competitive experiment to find the best way to manage the lowly goyim. The tribe still runs everything of consequence in the U.S., and they still wield inordinate power in contemporary Russia.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
  97. @Ron Unz

    Ron, we never made it to the moon, and yes I believe the Soviets knew it and went along with it for their own reasons. I have linked to the Aulis web site several times here as I feel its analysis is first rate. The 1970 Murmansk handover of an Apollo module is a story I know I had never heard of and brings many things to light. I hope you will take the time to read this bizarre story: Did the April 1970 Apollo 13 mission end just minutes after it began?
    April 1970: NASA launches Apollo 13, but apparently it aborts
    only minutes later – an emergency splashdown in the eastern Atlantic.
    The Soviets then recover an Apollo module that had “fallen from space”. But all is not lost.
    The US sends an icebreaker to a Russian port to bring home the lost Apollo module.
    Was this event the real Apollo 13 accident?

    Proton rocket
    The Soviet Proton rocket launched the Zond 5 spacecraft which stimulated the US into scheduling the Apollo 8 mission. Today it is still one of the most successful boosters ever.
    The process that led to the 1970 Murmansk handover of an Apollo module has been set out by Russian authors Bulatov and Boyko (B&B) in The April Odyssey and the November Boat. Authors B&B posit that the pursuit of the Soviet lunar program was intended to stimulate the United States into forging ahead faster than was technically feasible and thus force them into simulating the Apollo missions.

    With a contemporary Russian perspective on the historical analysis of the race to the Moon (generally undertaken by European or American researchers) B&B tell the story of how the USSR used the Apollo 13 mission to obtain the proof required to turn these conditions to its own advantage.

  98. I think this pretty much explains the Soviet collusion on the Apollo lies.
    “Why the Soviet Union conceded
    While Soviet experts were sorting out this hoax, it had become a part of the social psyche. So any rebuttal could only be achieved by referring to photographs and the TV coverage of the Apollo landing sites. The top Soviet leadership was faced with a dilemma – to go to considerable effort to gather evidence and then publicly prove the illusory nature of the Apollo Space Project, or to keep silent by agreeing to the US geopolitical exchange.

    In the first case, the parties were facing a military conflict, at least a strike on the Soviet space infrastructure. Under no circumstances could the US allow the truth to come out, as in this case instead of triumph, the country would run into ontological catastrophe: their chosen role as the prime purveyors of truth, goodness, and justice, in the eyes of its citizens and the self-appointed policeman of the world in the eyes of everyone else, America would become the generator of a ubiquitous lie without the moral right to geopolitical leadership.

    As the global lie is exposed in the eyes of its citizens the elite loses the right to exercise their power: any communication with the public could be interpreted as an attempt to deceive, which would mean paralysis of governance. In terms of financial, rather than administrative dictatorship this stance could result in deep social disorder or even disintegration of the country.

    In the second case, it is prudent not to engage in an exposé; the Soviet Union gets peace and access to useful financial resources and western technologies. The situation created by the US did not allow for partial solutions – either peace, friendship and chewing gum – or war. Facing a difficult decision the Soviet leaders, at first glance, acted wisely and humanely.”

    • Replies: @Erebus
  99. Mike P says:
    @James Robinson

    Just the thing for you if you are a smug, lazy, sloppy halfwit – the condescending style of the presenter will surely amuse and please you. However, short of dual shadows, all the other indications of faked photography have been demonstrated in pictures that this guy elects not to show – diverging shadows, uneven lighting, bright reflexes from objects in the shadow etc.

    If you do like to get your enlightenment from videos, go look for those done by Bart Sibrel. Here is an outtake from his movie “A funny thing happened on the way to the moon.”

    Then, tell me again all is well on the HMS Apollo.

    • Replies: @ricky
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  100. Michael7 says:

    Nobody is going to the moon, ever. As with the sun and the stars, the moon is set within the firmament which nothing man-made can penetrate. Both the US and Russia already tried firing missiles at it to no avail. Look up Operation Fishbowl. A short time after discovering the firmament, the Antarctic treaty was signed and various space agencies were formed in order to deceive people into believing that earth is a sphere flying through space, making us seem insignificant. God said that He created the world in just six days, whereas the pseudo-science cultists say that a big bang exploded, formed a universe and that we evolved over billions of years. I believe God.

  101. Michael7 says:

    Modern telescopes can see galaxies a million light years away—so how come no modern earth telescope has taken a photo of the American flag on the moon that was allegedly left behind?

    The whole “light years away” thing is a total crock. The stars are set within the firmament which is no more than a few thousand miles above us. They cannot look at the American flag on the moon because it was never there in the first place. The moon isn’t a terrestrial object to be landed upon, it’s a light in the sky set within the firmament.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  102. On this issue Paul Kersey is just plain wrong.

    Yaeger writes in his autobiography that Congress forced him to take a black man into the program, not Kennedy. And after Dwight washed out of the program he filed a complaint against Yaeger for racism.

    Yaeger was acquitted because all of the documented flying and classroom records showed that Dwight was not qualified, and was incapable fo maintaining a place in the program either scholastically or as a pilot.

    After the trial was over, Yaeger wanted Dwight charged with insubordination, but the brass would not permit that the same black that Congress wanted in the program, and who had just flunked out would also be brought up on charges.

    Mr Kersey, please read Yaeger’s book, rather than what a writer for Ebony claims. I’ve read your work in the past, you are normally much smarter than this.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  103. Truth says:

    No, only humans need humanly things…such as thrones.

  104. Truth says:

    No no no. The earth sits on a magic turtle’s back.

    No, Dummy, it’s a spinning volleyball revolving around the sun at 66,600 mph, and somehow the water stays on the ball, and the North Star is always in the same place. ..

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  105. @Genrick Yagoda

    I am not inclined to doubt where the specific pressure came from. it would be interesting to read the accounts first hand. Capt. Dwight makes the case and the record is also clear that this wash-out did not occur until after Pres Kennedy died. They could have easily washed him out via the entrance requirements, if such was the case. My issue here is not whether Capt Dwight was qualified. The issue is how much color was a factor. I and I rest with the record of the US military regarding its treatment of blacks attempting to break any new ground in their ranks. My initial response stands unchallenged.

    But perhaps, I was incorrect about my assessment of Capt Dwight, maybe feistier than I suspected.

    I would have to read the book to comprehend why Gen. Yeager would bring insubordination charges, after the trial if what you write is accurate. Again another “tell” in my view. Without a view from Captain Dwight to challenge what is expressed here — in otherwords, what went on in the course of events. The record is what the record is.

    But I remain where I came in — if they were forced to take in blacks for the polity and there were blacks better qualified – then why wouldn’t they have pressed for said better qualified pilots. It’s like the inaccurate or incomplete discussion of blacks into anything in which the charge of unqualified is pressed. If one compares the “unqualified blacks” to the unqualified” whites would the record reflect said differences. If not for the history, I would take the matter at face value. but given the level of collusion among military leaders and members on this matter — not on a bet.

    Maybe that is in the book. But, that remains one of many hints about what the real motivations were regarding the introduction of blacks.

    • Replies: @Genrick Yagoda
  106. ricky says:

    exactly…that anyone still believes that hoax is amazing

  107. ricky says:
    @Mike P

    exactly…its simply amazing that anyone with access to the internet still believes that hoax

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  108. ricky says:
    @James Robinson

    heres irrefutable proof that we never sent anyone to the moon in the 60’s and oh by the way they still cant do it with todays technology…and that is why NO ONE has done it since then…

  109. ricky says:

    so hes either lying or hes dumber than a box of rocks

  110. ricky says:
    @Ron Unz

    you are using a straw man argument…heres irrefutable evidence that we never sent anyone to the moon…and still cant…thats why NO ONE has done it since…duhhhhh….

  111. ricky says:

    good one… the first black astronaut to fake a moon landing…

  112. So finally, like a black headed zit, the truth comes out.
    JFK wasn’t murdered because he wanted to do away with the fed.
    JFK wasn’t murdered because he wanted to do away with the CIA.
    JFK wasn’t murdered because he was exposing Israel’s nuke program.
    JFK wasn’t murdered because he was against invading Cuba.
    JFK wasn’t murdered because he a was a Catholic.
    JFK wasn’t murdered because of any 6 of a dozen political reasons.
    JFK was murdered because he wanted a black man to be 1st on the moon.

    OK we tore down that statue. Who’s next?

  113. @ANON

    without an atmosphere to push off of space travel is impossible. Therefore I created the aether. Problem solved.

  114. @Anonymous

    that’s right. but hey, isn’t Japan now just a conquered state, like a vassal without a voice?

  115. @Mike P

    We don’t agree on this subject, Mike, but I’ll agree with you that this filmmaker is a swarmy, smug bastard. He’s humorous, but it doesn’t make up for his “on-screen” personality. I did not like his introduction making light of the space program and equating it with “war” either. He seems to know about filmmaking, and I have not the knowledge with which to argue with his points that, however, are technically pretty easy to understand.

    Let me get to one point that this guy, being no engineer of any sort. People on both sides are discussing this slow-motion business. What is being left out by non-engineering types (people without a modicum of physics knowledge, I guess) is that a change in acceleration rate DOES NOT, in any way, equate directly to a difference in speed. The definition of acceleration is the 1st derivative of the vector quantity velocity.

    Let me make it simple. At 1/6 Earth’s gravity, people do not move at 1/6 the speed on Earth. Their acceleration toward the surface is 1/6 of that on Earth. As one of these 12 men that walked on the Moon took a small leap* and let’s say got to 2 ft. above the surface, he wouldn’t fall at 1/6 the speed on Earth, just with 1/6 of the acceleration. The sideways component of movement during a leap** should be at constant speed. Anyone could plot this out and see whether it’s slow-motion film or lower acceleration.

    * No, not that “small leap for a man” part, just a regular small leap. ;-}

    ** Once both feet are off the ground.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  116. @EliteCommInc.

    I’m pretty certain you can buy a copy of Yaeger’s autobiography at any used book store for a couple of bucks.

    In this book he speaks highly of a black pilot that was in his squadron and flew as Yaeger’s wingman. His name escapes me right now, but Yaeger stated he just as good as any pilot he had flown with, and that is very high praise indeed.

    Ed Dwight was the one of the only black pilots who applied during Yaeger’s tenure who was even remotely close, and still Dwight had to be “affirmative action’ed” to get into the school. Even though Dwight was given special tutors and a lower bar than the other pilots, he still washed out. And then he threw a fit.

    There might be some history between the US military and blacks, but that history runs both ways. The US Military has spent over 100 years testing people for what makes good officers, and have consistentlyfound that the lower IQ of the average blacks makes the vast majority of them completely unsuitable as officer candidates. It’s with the recent generation of admitting anyone including freaks and fairies, dykes and hairies (to quote Tens Years After) that the US military has become a shell of what it once was.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  117. @Truth

    That’s a much more reasonable explanation, your volleyball theory, compared to the old tortuga/tortoise/turtle explanation, not to mention Copernicus, Plato, Galileo and all those old dead white men.

    To add to your theory, Truth, I present my thesis that this great volleyball we live on is kept spinning by a bikini-clad chick named Cassiopeia . Something or some ONE has got to keep it spinning, right? I hope this adds to the, cough cough, hot body of knowledge. I feel like I’m standing on the shoulder of giants here on this blog … or at least the shoulders of giant turtles!

    Can you make out her bikini in this stellar image? You may need to squint.

    • Replies: @Truth
  118. @ricky

    … its simply amazing that anyone with access to the internet still believes that hoax.

    You don’t know how hilarious that is!

    Do you think it could be that people are spending just a little TOO MUCH time on the internet for their minds to be able to think about physics?

  119. Anonymous [AKA "nigel .d"] says:

    Coming up next on Unz. Santa Clause may have negro DNA. Shocking new evidence …Father Christmas could be a black dude…… Film at 11.

    • Replies: @Truth
  120. Michael7 says:

    There is no such thing as outer space. The only “proof” comes from government agencies or others joined at the hip such as Space X. All of it is fake. NASA alone receives an estimated 52 million dollars per day. That’s a lot of *free* taxpayer money. Where does it all go? In their pockets, that’s where. They’ll spend maybe a couple of million assembling rockets which go nowhere except over the ocean and create fake CGI cartoon images and fake curvature using high-altitude aircraft with a fish eye lens to distort the image, making the earth appear to curve when it doesn’t.

    Satellites use SMD-based equipment which, let me stress, runs basically the exact same way as all electronic stuff has since the beginning. (SMD being an acronym for surface-mount technology FYI.) They may be able to make smaller components nowadays but it’s still the same. The question is: how do the SMD caps survive in an environment with heavy radiation, which alternates between extreme heat and extreme cold, without being destroyed? Try putting an SMD cap in a microwave oven for a minute and it will be destroyed. And these things are said to be on satellites thousands of miles above and last for decades without any maintenance.

    But who needs reality when people can live in a sci-fi delusion?

  121. Michael7 says:

    Pardon: SMD = surface-mount device. I write too quickly.

  122. Che Guava says:

    Everybody knows that O.J. Simpson was amnng the earlier astronauts to stand on a sound-stage for the faked Moon landings.

    The once-famous documentary film Capricorn One proves it, exploring his role in depth.

  123. Mike P says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Their acceleration toward the surface is 1/6 of that on Earth. As one of these 12 men that walked on the Moon took a small leap* and let’s say got to 2 ft. above the surface, …

    You are right, the downward acceleration should be lower; however, the acceleration and maximum speed of upward movements should actually be greater. A jumping astronaut should take off quickly and fall back slowly. Instead, those NASA fakes move slowly all around – another give-away.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  124. @Mike P

    The acceleration of the jump (both vertical and transverse components) was NOT greater and was probably lower than that on Earth. Those spacesuits were bulky as all get-out. Therefore, the lower exerted force acting on the slightly-greater mass would result in lower acceleration than a nice standing broad jump here on Earth with no suit. It’s just that, due to the much-lower vertical acceleration there is more airborne time for a longer jump (in time and distance). The best range jump would still be a 45-degree trajectory, as that calculation is mass and gravitational-acceleration independent.

    If I had a few good videos and some extra time (oh, and some skill with movie-editing software) I could do some calculations. Again, my point is that lower gravitational acceleration DOES NOT LOOK LIKE slow motion, were you to analyze it closely.

    Anybody going on about slow motion photography (like the smarmy filmmaker in the video above) would be wise to learn Newton’s laws (kinetics) before arguing either side of this.

    Yet, they walked …

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @James Robinson
  125. Truth says:
    @Ron Unz

    As you well know, Old Sport, the US and the USSR are not in competition, they are created enemies under the Kikemason umbrella. The Cold War and all the rest are all silly hoaxes to bilk tax money out of both publics, and to create jingoism which can be exploited. All Space Agencies are fake entities under the aegis of the GSC (Global Sodomite Cabal), unless you, with a 220 IQ can believe that the earth moves 186,000,000 miles in 6 months and the North Star is in the same place at night?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  126. Truth says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    That’s a much more reasonable explanation, your volleyball theory, compared to the old tortuga/tortoise/turtle explanation, not to mention Copernicus, Plato, Galileo and all those old dead white men.

    All silly Kikemason deceivers. The story came directly from the Great Prince Downstairs, and these pathetic, sniveling rats worked out the math and the backstory to coroborate it.

    Maybe you can hold a seance with one of them and ask them if, when we are in Argentina, we are standing upside down?

    PS, as opposed to water somehow not falling off the bottom of a volleyball, the water on the flat earth his held in by the Artic Ice Wall, which encircles the earth rather than being were the stitches would meet.

  127. Truth says:

    It’s “Claus” but in any event, “Santa” is an anagram for “Satan”, another inside joke from these simpletons, so no, he’s probably all yours.

  128. Kiza says:

    There are two huge crappies in this Mythbusters.

    The first one is that the TV BSers call the alternative explanation “conspiracy theory” which is a CIA invented phrase. If you take a scientific approach, you do not do name-calling on the alternatives that you are comparing, you give them both equal chance and you let the science speak instead of your mouth full of BS: this is a journalistic trick – we do all the thinking that audience needs.

    The second crappy is that you use NASA facility to prove/disprove the theory that NASA cheated!? You got to be kidding me: Mythbusters is truly TV for morons.

    Whether men landed on the Moon, I would not rely on any “buster” BSers to tell me the truth. There are a few irregularities in the story and the journalistic material available. My main concern, as a former scientist, is if the amount of fuel to land and then to take off from the moon could fit into the small space of the lunar module. Also, some of the photos and videos do look a bit staged.

    Ultimately, I would like to believe that the human/US landing on the moon was real because it is so inspirational. But if today’s lying US undertook such program I would not believe it for a millisecond. Therefore, it comes down to – was the US then as prepared to lie as it is now?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  129. gregor says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    And if the space program was fake, what about the guys that died in Apollo 1? Did they fake that? Is Gus Grissom hanging out on an island somewhere? Did they also fake the Challenger blowing up? Columbia? Once you concede most of the program was legit, for me it gets hard to buy that only the lunar missions were faked. Did the guys sneak away on the launch pad? Or did they actually launch but just orbit the Earth for a week? For Apollo 13 they just pretended to bungle their fake mission for no reason?

    • Replies: @Mike P
  130. Kiza says:

    Total BS, you do not need an atmosphere to slow down a rocket.

    But nothing in space can stop – every mass is either part of an orbiting mass (say, after “landing” on it) or is orbiting around another mass.

    I think it is your US education talking.

  131. Kiza says:

    Your story does not sound plausible at all, simply because a similar should then apply to the airplanes in the atmosphere. Instead, aircrews at 30,000 feet get a significant increase in the cosmic radiation, as many, many measurements prove. The only argument may be that the space flight exposure is of short duration, but the doses compared with plane flight would still be much bigger.

    The second issue is the exposure of electronics to the cosmic radiation. Luckily, analogue electronics would be much less susceptible to radiation than today’s high density electronics (the Soviet Mig-25 apparently had cathode ray tubes to continue flying after a nuclear explosion).

    I do not think that we have a satisfactory explanation for the survival of the space crews away from the Earth’s magnetic field.

  132. JSM says:
    @Sam J.

    You my Man Mr. JSM are a genius

    I’m a woman, but appreciate the compliment!

    Read Jim’s essay.

    Thanks! I will! White men’s inventiveness shall, yet again, save us White women and children!

    To wander off topic a bit… We White women owe you a White men a debt of gratitude. What I hate most about feminism is the sheer GALL of these harpies to enjoy what you guys created and then ….insult you. Yeesh. Can we leave all the White feminists off our man-made islands, please?

  133. @Ron Unz

    Aha! I was hoping I would find your sane voice amongst the bizarre comments on a mildly interesting but unimportant article….Because I find your latterday skepticism, extending sometimes to conspiracist sympathies, somewhat flawed by anachronism which may be a product of your age only to be cured by your next 20 years reading – plus observations such as this:

    Consider what typical important leaders thought if they hadn’t the benefit of Art Jensen’s work. I mean people like Harvard man JFK, almost any Oxbridge educated PM, and (to mention the certain example of someone I knew: undistinguished Oxford graduate and Australian PM Malcolm Fraser). The blacks they knew first were all civilised well spoken men who were probably at least as smart as they were. Compound the effect of that by considering what they observed of white trash and their leaders (and the idiocy of Germans chasing brilliant Jewish scientists into exile just to wrap up the blank slate case). If they had read Galton’s June 1864 letter to The Times they would no doubt have classed it as 19th century “deplorable”.

    A couple of related points.

    Jewish anti prejudice research and activity (cf. I think the Joyce article and links), and it’s generalisation beyond the Jewish case, is hardly surprising in the aftermath of the Nazi rampage even without myths about grandfather and the supposedly WASP country club. Moreover I can remember and trace back a lot of similar Episcopal/Anglican bien pensant thinking which might make one think that previously tribal Jews were merely assimilating to the standards of educated upper class WASPs. Cp. the way the pre WW2 Brits turned out socialists like Nehru and Bandaranaike to lead and retard the economies of the subcontinent. I have a rabbi friend who would point to the words at Passover “remember that you were slaves in the land of Egypt” [total fiction about a lot of murderous mercenaries as I now prefer to believe] and I would count the Jewish lawyers who have worked successfully for Aboriginal land rights as much closer to Christian Enlightenment figures and ideas than to the Jews in the relatively liberal Netherlands who condemned Spinoza. So… I regard emphasis on the 1950s and 60s Jewish push for more open US immigration and for civil rights which promoted the place of blacks in America as misguided to the extent that it treated the anti-dominant-WASPs motivation as much more than peripheral, though real (as John Derbyshire acknowledges by his lively language about the minority who are still replaying the 1881 Cossack attacks in their heads). Likewise, though a different point about anachronism, I would emphasise my previously stated view that there is no way even the ruthless Ben Gurion, if still in office, would or could have got his Cabinet to accept the assassination of a US President – at least one no more hostile to Israeli projects than JFK – *in the early 60s*. (Imagine Abba Eban’s horrified and rational reaction).

    PS as for your other flirting with conspiracy based explanations, even if you keep MH17 in the frame (as to which I would make a big bet against it being found to be a Western or Ukrainian false flag event) may I suggest you give up on MH370 so far as any alleged state actors are concerned.

  134. Mike P says:

    And if the space program was fake, what about the guys that died in Apollo 1? Did they fake that?

    It is easier to kill people on Earth than to keep them alive on the moon.

  135. @Truth

    The “North Star”, Polaris, is not in the same place throughout the day and night young sport. It is a bit under 1 degree of arc away from the direction of the north end of earth’s extended axis, so goes around in a small circle. It was good enough to start the alignment process for telescopes, before computers.

    It is kinda of a coincidence that a star of that brightness is in that position though, or has been at least for the 10’s of millennia of mankind’s existence. It makes one wonder, but then the night sky in a clear place outside a city makes one wonder anyway.

    If you want to learn some beginning astronomy, there is a book by H.A. Ray, the same guy who wrote Curious George, BTW. No kidding – it’s a great book that I got as a gift long ago.

  136. @Ron Unz

    I don’t want to be taken as denying the importance of default positions that are part of our upbringing and identity, even if only tenuously. Thus, in the end American Jews are usually going to fall back on a default judgment which gives Israel a pass even if, after a long trial hearing witnesses they would, as jurors, have come down against Israel. And there is less amiable but natural solidarity. Even in Australia I have recently become aware of an outstanding political candidate losing out to a Jewish woman mostly because a woman candidate was wanted by some of the hard heads but also because of solid Jewish support even though the Jews didn’t like her. I refrain from the obvious digression into considering who would be more likely to vote according to ethnic solidarity in similar circumstances as between Jews, Indians and Chinese as I do from tracing the move of Irish Catholics to merely educated upper middle class.

    BTW, another addendum: the end of the acceptability of Eugenics from the 40s on should inform the imagination of anyone who regards Jewish intellectual enthusiasms as dominated by narrow ethnocentric interests. J M Keynes resigned his Vice Presidency of the Malthusian Society and I still find mention of Eugenics greeted with horror today by non-Jews.

  137. @Michael7

    Plus, it’s a matter of resolution, Rational. Stars are point sources of light. For those that are millions of light years away, no telescope can resolve the disc of even some 5 million-mile diameter one. From my quick calculation, one light year is just under 6 Trillion miles. To make it round, let’s just say 5 million/5 trillion = 1 x 10^-6. That’s a resolution of about 1/4 of a SECOND-OF-ARC. Our atmosphere alone will prevent a telescope from resolving that. Outside the atmosphere, the Hubble telescope can barely resolve this, as it supposedly can reach 0.1 arc-seconds. Still a point source can be seen much, much farther than it’s actual shape can be resolved from.

    If that lunar module is on the scale of 10 ft, let’s say, that’s 0.002 miles. At 1/4 million miles away, the resolving power to see any detail at all would have to be 0.002 arc-seconds. There’s no damn way!

    But,, yes, I know, math is hard, girls.

    • Replies: @Michael7
  138. @Kiza

    As I wrote above, the mythbusters are fags (well, not in so many words – my post explained that these guys are pretend engineers). Yes, it’s entertaining compared to the rest of the 537 channels of TV, or at least since The Rockford Files was taken off the air.

    • Agree: Kiza
  139. @Genrick Yagoda


    I am going to eschew the games with IQ. You are dancing in a field all by yourself. In response to the article I state very clearly, Gen Yeager might very have been spot on about Capt Dwight. But I find Gen Yeagers’s views as your own quite chocker block full of the oldest and most mundane reasons for keeping blacks out of military service — including IQ.

    If Gen Yeager had in fact, wanted to contest this particular black officer and felt there were some better qualified as the article states. Then is seems the credible push back is to provide stated recommendations and pursuit. excuse me while I have a laugh — The military does do lots of testing but it does not have IQ scores. The tests are generally scaled and either you make the cut or you don’t.

    That said, the history of testing to blacks is very clear — manufactured to be harder and tougher. That was the routine. Unlike with other whites and white women — blacks had been expected to outperform the standard not merely meet it. Your lack of history here regarding blacks is severely lacking.

    Every branch from the foot soldier to academy cadets — blacks were wanted and were not welcome and the expectations made to press their failure was consistent and well known.

    IQ tests . . . maybe some covert secret exam hidden throughout.

    Let’s start with the how officer’s were made

    class . . . and if one was fortunate enough to achieve some outstanding battlefield maneuver or act an onsite commission . . . That was the standard up through the civil war. The professional services we have today didn’t really start until sometime after say 1917 . . .

  140. @Achmed E. Newman

    You folks are an embarrassment. “..Newton’s laws (kinetics)..”. I take that to mean you were a ‘kenesiology’ major in your truncated college career. Your knowledge of mechanics ( I’m sorry, ‘Kinetics’) is thoroughly absent. If only your arrogance would follow suit.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  141. Erebus says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Indeed, is a useful antidote to any delusionary ideas people may still harbour about the moon landings.

    Arguments based on Soviet exposure of the hoax are pedestrian and fruitless. They apply equally well, or even more so to the Holocaust and 9/11, or any other tribal/national/civilizational myth since the dawn of time.

    A cold, level headed look at the facts of the matter, and the myth dissipates like morning mist.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  142. @James Robinson

    Kenetics or dynamics as opposed to kinematics (kinematics involves motion but not forces). I don’t need arrogance to counter the boobs under this thread. Poor Paul Kersey just wanted to write about the history of the Apollo program, and he’s got to read this crap from young people who can’t get out of the basement and probably have never even seen the moon other than on their phones.

    I see you are not on their side, so there’s that at leas. If you’ve got something you’ve found error with, say it. The terminology “kinetics” for “dynamics” is not it though.

  143. Sean says:
    “That’s no big deal as long as it works. Grey [Duct} tape would’ve taken five minutes, and using Kapton meant the task took 40 minutes. We need to get a handle on the anal-retentive engineering approach to everything.”

    What Armstrong and the others needed to win the intense competition to be an astronaut was quite different to what doing the job required. Dwight was not competitive, but he was qualifiedto try out and maybe go to fulfill the objective of the mission..

    You are perhaps forgetting it was a PR thing to go to the moon, and a black being along for the ride would have been good for the country. Bassett, Freeman and Williams died when they crashed their NASA T-38 supersonic jet trainers, so white or black, engineering expertise is no great predictor of flying ability on what seems to have been an excessively dangerous training program. The Yeager school of thought overemphasized that aspect and underestimated the dangers it seems to me. Anyway, Dwight did not have to be given the spacecraft maneuvering job, he could have been put in charge of the duct tape.

  144. KenH says:

    Plenty of white men washed out of the astronaut program but when whites fail it’s, well, failure. But when blacks fail it’s not due to lack of ability or hard work, but racism, discrimination and any other excuse they or their Jewish champions can dream up to guilt trip whitey .

  145. Michael7 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The problem you face is that all this talk about light years distance is founded upon unproven, unverifiable assumptions taken as fact. Stars could be no more than a few hundred miles away and nobody would know the difference either way.

    Furthermore, I’ve yet to see any real proof that the so-called planets (i.e. wandering stars) are terra firma which can be landed upon. Remember that true science is observable, testable, repeatable and falsifiable.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  146. @Erebus

    I find it fascinating the level of cognitive dissonance people harbor when it comes to one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on mankind. Facts such as the following never even enter the discussion.
    1) The Apollo program ended suddenly in July 1975 after the ASTP(Apollo-Soyuz Test Project). This resulted in the supposed docking of the Apollo-Soyuz space craft in LEO. The space race was declared officially over by both countries after the completion of this mission.
    2) At the time America had 3 perfectly good Saturn 5 rockets fully-equipped and ready-to-launch. All were moth balled and demoted to museum duty. It was a tremendous waste of tax payer dollars.
    3) To this day America makes none of it’s own heavy lift rocket engines. They are ALL purchased from Russia. Why would a technological giant such as the F-1 rocket engine not be used today, unless it never really worked in the first place. Our Atlas 5 rockets use the Russian made RD-180 engines.
    4) America today has to pay Russia to get its astronauts to the space station. The taxi fare for one such ride is 80 million dollars per astronaut. NASA cannot even put a man in LEO.
    If one would do at least basic research into the Apollo program they would learn of the many problems with the F-1 rocket engines which were never resolved.
    Once again I will leave a link to a detailed analysis of the problem’s with the F-1 rocket engine, although I’m sure that all those who are sold on this lie will never take the time to read it.

  147. @Michael7

    Stars could be no more than a few hundred miles away and nobody would know the difference either way.

    I can’t argue with that. Nobody could, as if a star were that close, Earth would have been long ago pulled in by it’s gravitational field and we’d all have been fried to a crackly crunch.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Michael7
  148. @Johnny Walker Read

    1) It was called “detente”, the warming of relations between the US and the USSR. Sharing a space mission that was otherwise kind of worthless, for reasons of peace, was not a bad idea, considering there were left-over Saturn rockets. Those were supposed to have been used in mission beyond Apollo XVII, but the public didn’t want to spend any more money, as it could be used better for welfare, hahahaaa …

    2) See number (1), which pretty much leads back onto Mr. Paul Kersey’s topic which so many commenters have derailed (yeah, I should count myself, for responding). The late 60’s and early ’70’s was a time during which the left-wing was starting to get the upper-hand in government. They wanted this, OUR, money spent on “The Great Society” instead. That worked just dandy (trying to keep a straight fact). Mr. Kersey has written MANY, MANY posts bemoaning the “what if’s”, if we had continued on with the space program, on his blog StuffBlackPeopleDontLike.

    3) The Space Shuttle program used a different concept – 2 big expendable solid-rocket boosters, the reusable orbiter, and the huge liquid-fuel tank for the 3(?) engines on the orbiter. Perhaps the F-1’s were not suited for that design. An older engineer from Rockwell could explain this to you. Do you think this stuff is simple!? Why do you wonder about things that are huge technical challenges that take thousands of engineers years to design. Do you reckon they just picked an engine model out of their asses!?


    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  149. MarkinLA says:

    Yes but they would have the capability to track our spacecraft and intercept the radio transmissions. Given the technology of the day and space and time constraints, decoding the Apollo transmission so nobody else would understand them just doesn’t make any sense.

    While it is possible that the Apollo craft could have circled the moon and never made a landing, I am not sure the Astronauts could keep quiet about such a hoax.

  150. @Achmed E. Newman

    (pushed some odd combination of keys there.)

    4) NASA indeed is a joke these days, IMO. If you are not old enough to know the NASA and the aerospace industry of the 50’s through 80’s then, why chime in? I understand complete ignorance from a young person, but using it to “prove” man never set foot on the moon is annoying to me.*

    I looked over the site from your link. His moondust story is the only one I couldn’t explain readily, but I don’t have the details (knowledge about the true surface, gas impingement, particle size, etc) to figure it out. Perhaps you should find something written by guys who worked on this mission. There were 100’s of thousand of engineers, technicians, and scientists involved.

    I have no hatred for the Russians now (never did before, just the SOVIETS), but your website guy is some Russian flake that wants to bad-mouth some of the best of American history. He had no scientific basis to any of his beliefs besides the moon-dust thing.


    * I understand the distrust in the US Feral Gov’t. I have a whole lot of that. It’s just that America was a different country back then, a real can-do place. There’s no way for you to understand that now, judging everything from the internet.

  151. Truth says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Assuming that they have gravitational fields, and assuming that gravity exists. There is no proof.

  152. Assuming that they have gravitational fields, and assuming that gravity exists. There is no proof.

    The Empire State Building says otherwise. I’ll be at the bottom shooting 35mm video. We’ll try to get at least the non-gay mythbuster to come out and mention you on the show, if that’s any consolation. If you insist on having Beret guy on there too, I’ll see what I can do.

  153. Michael7 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I can’t argue with that. Nobody could, as if a star were that close, Earth would have been long ago pulled in by it’s gravitational field and we’d all have been fried to a crackly crunch.

    Not if they’re something besides the huge blazing suns that mainstream science claims that they are. Why oh why can’t people think for themselves?

    If we’re really traveling at over a half-million mph through the cosmos then everything would produce a large tail in its wake, yet that’s clearly not the case. Also, how come the entire earth never – not even once – experiences any sort of turbulence, causing its entirety to shake? Another thing to consider is that if we’re going as fast as the scientists claim then how could the sun’s heat ever reach the earth? It would necessarily have to travel both towards us and along our trajectory. To get an idea for what I mean, imagine two people driving on opposite sides of the highway and one points a fan out their car window while they’re both going at 100 mph. How is that air current going to hit the other car? And we’re talking about the hypothesized “vacuum of space”.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  154. Whenever people get close to truth surrounding events like 911, the holocaust, or the moon landings, the establishment sends in the clowns, with flat earthers, “holograms at WTC not jetliners”, and other stories more preposterous than the official lies.

    On this page, which includes excellent arguments against the moon landings, including factual statements from NASA about the extreme danger of cosmic radiation outside low earth orbit, the most ridiculous and shameless clowns feigning insanity are
    Micheal7, and a clown calling itself “truth.”

    Charles Spiesel played the role of clown to destroy Jim Garrison’s case against Clay Shaw/Bertrand, claiming–in court only–that he fingerprinted his own daughter on return from boarding school to make sure the government hadn’t replaced her with a substitute. !!!

    Dave McGowan, in his excellent “moondoggie” series, explains it thus:

    Remember when Luther (played by Don Knotts) gets taken to court and sued for slander in The Ghost and Mr. Chicken? And don’t try to pretend like you’ve never seen it, because we both know that you have. So anyway, he goes to court and a character witness is called and the guy delivers credible testimony favoring Luther and it is clear that the courtroom is impressed and everything is looking good for our nebbish hero, Luther. Remember what happens next though? On cross-examination, the witness reveals that he is the president of a UFO club that holds their meetings on Mars!

    The courtroom, of course, erupts with laughter and all of that formerly credible testimony immediately flies right out the window.

    Some people will do anything for a few dollars.

    • Replies: @Michael7
    , @Truth
  155. Liza says:

    Thanx for this, Rurik. “A Film Not by Ken Burns” – mega-LOLs. I hate his pretentious style. How I sat thru two of his series I still haven’t figured out.

  156. @Michael7

    Something I always found interesting. The Earth’s said to be orbiting the sun at 66,600 mph. Where have I seen the first three digits of that number before?
    Could it be due to NASA’s occult founding?

  157. Michael7 says:

    You cannot present a single shred of hard evidence that we live on a flying sphere and therefore must resort to ridicule. Pretty sad.

    @Johnny Walker Read

    Another interesting tidbit is how they claim that the earth’s tilted at 23.4 degrees, leaving exactly 66.6 degrees (out of 90).

    • Replies: @Truth
  158. @Ron Unz

    Very interesting question. I put it to a Russian woman. She said “no one likes a smartass.” Indeed. By denouncing a hoax like the Moon Landings or 911 in a rivalry you gain nothing. Those who know the truth do not have to be told. Those who don’t know can’t be told anyway because they can’t discern the truth because of self love. As Shakespeare put it in Sonnet 138:

    When my love swears that she is made of truth,
    I do believe her, though I know she lies,
    That she might think me some untutored youth,
    Unlearnèd in the world’s false subtleties.
    Thus vainly thinking that she thinks me young,
    Although she knows my days are past the best,
    Simply I credit her false-speaking tongue:
    On both sides thus is simple truth suppressed.
    But wherefore says she not she is unjust?
    And wherefore say not I that I am old?
    Oh, love’s best habit is in seeming trust,
    And age in love loves not to have years told.
    Therefore I lie with her and she with me,
    And in our faults by lies we flattered be.

    • Replies: @ricky
  159. Michael7 says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    It’s very telling that all of the astronauts are Freemasons. That fact alone should ring alarm bells.

  160. Mr. Anon says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    McGowan’s “Wagging the Moondoggie” explain’s the reason’s why the whole sham was perpetrated better than any author I have read. He was an amazing man and is sorely missed.

    McGowan was a f**king idiot. And it showed. If you were convinced by him, then you must be pretty stupid t0o.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  161. Mr. Anon says:

    This is no joke. It’s impossible to stop a rocket in space without an atmosphere.

    This thread is funny – it’s like listening to the inner thoughts of dogs on the subject of physics. Actually, my dog might be a lot smarter than most of you fellas.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Michael7
  162. Truth says:

    Whenever people get close to truth surrounding events like 911, the holocaust, or the moon landings, the establishment sends in the clowns, with flat earthers, “holograms at WTC not jetliners”, and other stories more preposterous than the official lies.

    Oh, but you misunderstand the game, Big Chief; if you have an IQ above room temperature, they will allow you to nibble at the edges of the conspiracy, as keeping 50-year distractions, like the fake Kennedy murder…

    …alive, is good for business. It takes true intellect to understand the massive scope and totality of the conspiracy. That is where true thinking is achieved.

  163. Truth says:

    …And we revolve around the sun at 66,600 mph.

  164. Truth says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Actually, my dog might be a lot smarter than most of you fellas.

    Then I would assume he’s putting food in your bowl.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @Mr. Anon
  165. @Mr. Anon

    I make it a point to never argue with an idiot, as they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  166. ricky says:

    mythbusters? are you serious? propaganda spreaders would be a better name for these shills

  167. ricky says:
    @ploni almoni

    no one likes a smart ass? bullshit I love smart asses…if they are in fact smart…
    the united states needs to be exposed for the fraud it is otherwise it will continue
    pillaging its people and the rest of the world…so in its faults by lies its flattered be
    ….then the outright truth would shatter thee….

  168. Michael7 says:
    @Mr. Anon

    This thread is funny – it’s like listening to the inner thoughts of dogs on the subject of physics. Actually, my dog might be a lot smarter than most of you fellas.

    That’s rich considering that you have no method of independently verifying that outer space actually exists, let alone that a rocket works in a vacuum.

    Funny how they’re always touting stuff like tours around the moon and other such nonsense as being just several years away. They’ve been claiming the same thing since at least the 90’s. Don’t worry. Space tourism is always just several years away. By 2034 it will still be several years away. But don’t worry, because by 2072 it will still be several years away. lol

    Enjoy your sci-fi fantasy delusion.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  169. Near live images on 16 channels from 2 geostationary satellites (GOES16 and Himawari8), plus a semi-functional geostationary satellite with cooling problems (GOES17), plus a polar orbiting satellite (JPSS):
    (switch satellites on the left, check the weather patterns before they arrive at your home)

    The flat Earth cartoon fiction is a new phenomena arising in the satellite era as an intentional clown show, heavily promoted by google/youtube in recommended videos when ever one stumble on theories backed by solid evidence. (Even watching a video exposing the crimes of the Clintons will result in youtube poisoning your well with flat-earth clown shows.)

    The ancient Greek knew that the Earth was a sphere, having noticed that the top of a ships mast, although very narrow, always appears on the horizon before the rest of the ship. It’s just simple geometry that a child could understand.

    ► Countless humans have flown around the sphere in jetliners. ► You can see the curvature of the planet from the perspective of a jetliner flying at the top of the troposphere. ►Spheres are the natural consequence of that property of the universe called “gravity.”

    Of course, evidence makes no difference to the clowns paid to produce a circus.

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @Michael7
  170. MarkinLA says:

    let alone that a rocket works in a vacuum

    Evacuate the air from a container. Add gaseous hydrogen and oxygen. Let them mix and add a spark. If it ignites, that is all the proof you need. This what a liquid fuel rocket does only with a lot more fuel.

    • Replies: @Michael7
  171. Michael7 says:

    All of the images from so-called satellites are faked with high-altitude aircraft/balloons and cartoon images of a spherical earth. The ancient Greeks had no way of verifying any of their assumptions. Most of the ancient civilizations believed that the earth was a plane. You cannot see any curvature even from a high-altitude balloon at over 120,000 ft. Nobody can recreate gravity using any experiment by making water stick to a sphere, because it doesn’t exist. You cannot produce a single shred of hard evidence without resorting to fake space agencies and all their equipment which is inaccessible to the public.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  172. Michael7 says:

    Again, never been proven. Nor can the ‘vacuum of outer space’. There was a guy who tried to prove it by doing an experiment on Youtube but even he had to cheat by allowing some air into the chamber. That’s not true science.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  173. MarkinLA says:

    Hydrogen won’t ignite on it’s own. It needs oxygen, thus the air. You or him probably don’t understand what was going on. A rocket is just contained and vectored expanding gasses which create a force that pushes some object forward in response to that force.

  174. @Truth

    No self respecting animal that hangs with humans would be caught dead putting food on the table for human pets.

    Cats even think dogs are stupid for fetching sticks, balls, etc.despite the small joy of watching a well dressed human sliding their hands in dog spittle.

    And should it be that humans exterminate themselves from the planet — cats and dogs will still be arguing over who had the upper over their human slaves.

    Dogs feeding humans — ha — that ended many many centuries ago.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  175. Mike P says:

    The ancient Greeks had no way of verifying any of their assumptions.

    Have a look at how Eratosthenes of Cyrene worked out the circumference of planet Earth. Also, consider the story of the first circumnavigation of Africa by the Phoenicians:

    The first circumnavigation of the African continent was probably made by Phoenician sailors, … in c. 600 BC and took three years. … They sailed south, rounded the Cape heading west, made their way north to the Mediterranean and then returned home. … Herodotus is sceptical of the historicity of this feat … the reason he gives for disbelieving the story is the sailors’ reported claim that when they sailed along the southern coast of Africa, they found the Sun stood to their right, in the north; Herodotus, who was unaware of the spherical shape of the Earth, found this impossible to believe.

    • Agree: Liza
    • Replies: @Michael7
  176. This entire article is based on the lie that that USA ever sent anyone to the moon. The moon landings were a blatant hoax. You should be ashamed for promoting lies as truth.

  177. Michael7 says:
    @Mike P

    Far more relevant would be Captain James Cook’s circumnavigation of Antarctica by ship which lasted three years and measured approximately 60,000 miles.

    The only way to truly scientifically prove one way or the other what sort of world we live in would require a group of independent researchers to circumnavigate the world directly south. Either one of two things would happen: 1) they would pass over a south pole and then come up on the opposite side of the world, or 2) they would find that there’s a firmament, a boundary to the world. The UN Antarctic treaty effectively prevents this scenario from unfolding. The only people allowed in are researchers that the governments allow in for specific tasks and tourists who go on guided tours but aren’t free to explore at leisure.

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  178. Mike P says:

    I was specifically addressing the ancient Greeks – they already could, and some of them did, understand that the Earth is not flat.

  179. @Michael7

    Micheal, how old are you? You’ve gotta stop this. Mr. Kersey wrote an article on unz, that appears under the “History” and “Race/Ethnicity” topic headings, about a highly-charged political aspect of the selection of astronauts for the Apollo program. How’d this turn into a discussion on whether the earth is flat, or whether rocket engines can work in a vacuum?! (NO and YES).

    Usually, anyone old enough to write sentences as you do has understood HOW we know the earth is round quite a while back. I usually don’t ask this, but are you trolling this site for laughs?

    Do you know, Michael, how many hundreds of airliners circumnavigate various arcs around this spherical world every day. Do you think they wouldn’t have to change the schedules a bit if the earth were a flat disk?

    • Replies: @36 ulster
  180. @EliteCommInc.

    I usually don’t agree with you, but you’ve got these cats and dogs pegged. Who knows? Cats and dogs may be brought closer together by their mutual distain for some of the humans we’ve got out here now.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  181. @Achmed E. Newman

    Well at least dogs will pretend your in charge.

  182. guitarzan says:

    Just as well for Ed Dwight. He would’ve had to acquiesce to a life of lies or been fried in the Van Allen radiation belt.

  183. If they could send a Black man to the moon, why couldn’t they send them all? 😀

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  184. @Intelligent Donkey

    it is my understanding based on the comments that a sizable number don’t think such an enterprise is even possible, much less to have occurred.

    To wit,

    the contention that blacks opposed space research as though it signifies some unique polity particular to blacks ignores that the public debate about space exploration has been going on with vigor among whites sine the endeavor was started. There were more than 30 million blacks in the US at the time, if I recall correctly — the suggestion that most of them opposed space exploration seems dubious based on opeds from top black magazines — they were opeds — inviting discussion — not the national mind of blacks. making that case is akin to saying that the Turner diaries is emblematic of all whites polity. Though the Turner diaries are not intended to invite discussion

    • Replies: @Truth
  185. Truth says:

    Hey, I wish all 30 million black people had opposed space exploration…because it’s a fraud.

    There is no outer space, no little green men, we have never been to the moon. It’s all nonsense.

    And no gents, we you go to the equator, you are not standing at a 180 degree angle. I always wondered how the baal earth goofs equated this with gravity.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  186. @Truth

    No comment

    However I am laughing.

  187. 36 ulster says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I was wondering why M. Verne didn’t write a book with the title Across the World in 80 days…

  188. 36 ulster says:

    I preferred your previous pseudonym, Tiny.

  189. anastasia says:

    Anyone who believes we went to the moon at this point has to be brain dead. It’s like Lindbergh flying a prop plane across the world six times 100 years ago, and never seeing another trip ever again. It’s like six DOS computer coming out 60 years ago, and never seeing any computer again. It’s like experiencing what one of the first air conditioner felt like 60 years ago, and having another experience again. It’s like driving a 57 Chevy, and never seeing any updating of a car. We went to the moon 53 years ago, people. Fifty three years, and never went back because of budgetary reasons? Please. Spare me your comments.

  190. #86 @Ron Unz
    The answer to your question is that the US bribed the USSR through an extensive program of technology transfer within the realm of the USTEC program involving 500 Us tech companies.
    The US also imposed tough rationalisations on US farmers and sold two years harvests of grain to the Soviets. USTEC ended temporarily as the Afghan war begun but was still running until 1988-89.
    It may have been the case that the Soviets, who knew it was a hoax, deliberately embarassed the US behind the scenes by capturing one Apollo capsule in the Biscaya which they returned to the US later. There is speculation that the Soviets could do that behind the cover of a feigned search after a submarine the K8 in 1970.
    Since the USTEC program was warmly welcomed by the Soviet leadership, there is no big surprise if they also took part in a joint hoax with the US, namely in a space rendez-vous in 1975. They speculate about that at

    According to D Khalezov it may also be the case that the second and more advanced Soviet moonrover never went to the moon.

    The pictures from the Lunar reconnaissance module in 2011 look clumsily doctored. Showing both Apollo landing modules and both russian unmanned vehicles. If the US authorities wanted they could easily have created perfect fake images.
    It is comforting to know they didnt want to.

    Anthony Sutton who probably never doubted the Apollo-success blew the whistle in 1973 calling the technology transfer national suicide. As a consequence Sutton fell from grace.

    The advanced Soviet nuclear cruise missile Granite emerged in 1976. How much of the technology came from the US?

    Since there is reason to believe such Granite missiles on the Kursk were gone when the sub was lifted, was it the US having reclaimed their own property 🙂 ?

    I dont underestimate the russians but, without actually knowing, I suspect the US probably had something to offer at least among electronic tech.

    I should add in that connection that several russians who left after the bolshevik revolution actually successfully contributed to the development of choppers and airplanes in the US. Nikolai Starikov recently made me learn about it on his website. He also claims the stealth technology the Us has developed actually built on russian inventions.

  191. Mr. Anon says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    I make it a point to never argue with an idiot, as they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    And yet you think Dave McGowan was a smart guy. You’re the idiot here.

  192. Mr. Anon says:

    …….said the flat-earther.

  193. Mr. Anon says:

    That’s rich considering that you have no method of independently verifying that outer space actually exists, let alone that a rocket works in a vacuum.

    Actually, I do. And………they do.

    Enjoy your sci-fi fantasy delusion.

    Enjoy your life as an ignorant retard.

  194. Mr. Anon says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    I find it fascinating the level of cognitive dissonance people harbor when it comes to one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on mankind. Facts such as the following never even enter the discussion.

    What I find fascinating is the vast reserve of bovine stupidity that emerges whenever this topic comes up.

    1) The Apollo program ended suddenly in July 1975 after the ASTP(Apollo-Soyuz Test Project). This resulted in the supposed docking of the Apollo-Soyuz space craft in LEO. The space race was declared officially over by both countries after the completion of this mission.

    Cite this supposed declaration.

    2) At the time America had 3 perfectly good Saturn 5 rockets fully-equipped and ready-to-launch. All were moth balled and demoted to museum duty. It was a tremendous waste of tax payer dollars.

    No, it didn’t. It had parts for several Saturn 5 rockets. What remained of the fleet was destined for museum displays. They were not “fully-equipped”. They were certainly not “ready-to-launch”.

    3) To this day America makes none of it’s own heavy lift rocket engines. They are ALL purchased from Russia. Why would a technological giant such as the F-1 rocket engine not be used today, unless it never really worked in the first place. Our Atlas 5 rockets use the Russian made RD-180 engines.

    You are wrong. the RS25 and RS-68 are American made. So is the Merlin. The RD-180 is only used on the Atlas. You don’t know what you are talking about.

    4) America today has to pay Russia to get its astronauts to the space station. The taxi fare for one such ride is 80 million dollars per astronaut. NASA cannot even put a man in LEO.
    If one would do at least basic research into the Apollo program they would learn of the many problems with the F-1 rocket engines which were never resolved.
    Once again I will leave a link to a detailed analysis of the problem’s with the F-1 rocket engine, although I’m sure that all those who are sold on this lie will never take the time to read it.

    The problems with the F-1 were resolved. You cite one lone website by some obscure russian nobody to the contrary, and that is supposed to be authoritative and irrefutable.

    You are an ignorant fool.

  195. I was on tour in Sydney, Australia with a youth orchestra from the U.S., on July 20, 1969. We got up in the middle of the night to watch the ‘moon landing’ on Aussie TV. We were all struck by the barely-concealed skepticism of our Australian hosts. They seemed to feel it was some sort of trick — they were very tactful and didn’t come right out and say that to us, but it was very apparent.

    In retrospect, those folks Down Under look sensible and pragmatic to me. I too had maintained a thin veneer of credulousness about it until a few years ago when I read “Wagging the Moon-doggie” by the late great Dave Macgowan — that veneer just self-destructed like Peter Graves’ cassette in those early Mission Impossible episodes. I mean, have you seen the pictures of the vehicle on the moon, that supposedly launched our astronauts successfully back to earth from there? YOU OWE YOURSELF A LOOK AT THOSE PICTURES!

    I also saw the movie “2001: A Space Odyssey” while in Australia in July, 1969. I now think it’s hilarious that I/we didn’t see the connection (indeed a well-coordinated psychological operation conducted on Americans) at the time (between that stupid movie and the stupid televised simulacrum of a space flight).

    Next week, the Woodstock festival, and right after that: Altamont! And finally, we close the 60s with the Manson family. Nothing peculiar in any of that, everything was just as it seemed at the time, I expect.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  196. Shefali says:

    I went and saw First Man and while they didn’t have the scene of the flag being planted on the moon, there were American flags waving throughout the movie. When the moon landing was televised, for example, they showed crowds waving American flags, even crowds in other countries doing so. There was a scene in which one of Armstrong’s sons, I believe, raises a flag and a close-up of the flag is shown. There is never any doubt that this was an American project and it was us competing against the Soviets.

    It WAS an overwhelmingly white movie which some leftists have an issue with but the space program was an overwhelmingly white program. There were a few non-whites here and there but most of the cast and certainly all the speaking parts were white – but guess what, this accurately portrayed reality!

    I am against racism AND I am for historical accuracy. There are plenty of historical and accurate examples of non-whites who have done important things – for example, the first person killed in the American Revolution was a black-Indian guy named Crispus Attucks. But the first people in space were whites – both on our side and the Russian side. I don’t see how lying about reality is going to make things better for non-whites.

    It’s like the feminist movement. There were so many women in the 1920s and 1930s who achieved great things – people like Gertrude Ederle and Amelia Earhart and Grace Hopper. But the reality is that when it comes to achieving great things, there are more men represented than women. This is just reality.

    Once upon a time the feminist movement was not about tearing down men, it was about making sure women had equal opportunities. Now, of course, if all groups have equal opportunities, that does not guarantee equal achievement. But that is on the individual, it is not society’s problem. Society is better if we have a meritocracy and have a fair, just system – that means no fudging the results to achieve an outcome more in line with a SJW’s wet dream.

    Just my two cents worth.

  197. Mr. Anon says:
    @Blue Corgi

    I mean, have you seen the pictures of the vehicle on the moon, that supposedly launched our astronauts successfully back to earth from there?

    The vehicle that landed on the Moon didn’t carry them back to Earth, nitwit.

  198. Anonymous[189] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz


    You have some background in math so you might be interested in Colin Rourke’s paper on the moon landing photos. Rourke is an emeritus professor of mathematics and his paper involves a mathematical analysis of the photos. Here’s his Wiki page and a link to the paper:

    Here’s a recent article with a short comment from him:

    Colin Rourke, a mathematics professor who wrote a paper doubting the moon landing photos, did not wish to comment but provided this comment:

    It’s a simple piece of elementary geometry which proves beyond doubt that some of the photos from the Moon Landings are faked. Since they all share common features, the obvious conclusion is that they are all faked. If that makes you think that the landings themselves were faked, that’s a quite sensible deduction. I make no comment on this.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  199. Anonymous [AKA "A mathematician"] says:

    Colin Rourke is infamous for making one of the greatest mistakes in mathematics: a false proof of the Poincare Conjecture. He is a crank and not credible.

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