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The Umbrella Man, the Sins of the Father, and the Kennedy Curse
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I first heard of the so-called “Umbrella Man” from a commenter to my unz.com article “Did Israel Kill the Kennedys?” (thanks again). It is one of the most puzzling pieces in the JFK assassination file. An intriguing introduction to it is this short interview of Josiah Thompson filmed by Errol Morris for the New York Times, on the 48th anniversary of his death:

or

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This film is interesting because, besides presenting the facts accurately, it illustrates the kind of “cognitive dissonance” they can produce, leading reasonable people to believe an implausible but harmless and comforting explanation, rather than a more logical but deeply disturbing one. In that case, it seems that normally programmed brains will reject vigorously, as unspeakable and therefore unthinkable on the conscious level, the notion that John Kennedy’s assassination can possibly have anything to do with his father’s appeasement policy in 1938, despite the fact that that notion has been deeply ingrained in our subconscious mind through the twin Jewish mythemes of “The Sins of the Father” and “The Kennedy Curse”, as illustrated by those two books:

The “sins of the father” is a not-so-subtle reference to Exodus 20:5:

“I, Yahweh, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.”

Chief among Joe Kennedy’s sins was, of course, that “he was a documented anti-Semite and an appeaser of Adolf Hitler” (publisher’s presentation of Kessler’s book).

ORDER IT NOW

The “Kennedy Curse” is a quasi kabalistic attempt to explain how the Kennedys were “on a fatal collision course with reality” because they “made the fatal mistake of thinking of themselves as divine.” By implication, their assassinations are to be blamed on their “self-defeating behavior” (publisher’s presentation of Klein’s book).

Taken together, those twin hasbara refrains evoke a notion of divine punishment. JFK and RFK were punished for the sins of their Jew-hating, Nazi-loving father. Mind you, it was Yahweh who took vengeance, not Israel!

The Umbrella Man fits so perfectly in this mythic narrative! The problem is that myths are not supposed to incarnate themselves so patently in physical reality. The implications are here too disturbing: for no reasonable man can believe that Yahweh supernaturally inspired Louie Steven Witt his “bad joke” (as he called it when interviewed by the special House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978). Then who inspired it?

Such a question is off-limit for Josiah Thompson’s mind. So he simply decided not to see anything “sinister” in the weird fact that he relates. He not only takes Witt’s explanation at face value (“this is just wacky enough, it has to be true!” in other words, credo quia absurdum), but assumes that the strange behavior of the Umbrella Man and JFK’s assassination are unrelated, and happened precisely at the same time and at the same spot by pure quantum physics coincidence.

By setting his mind on that explanation, Thompson obviously feels relieved not to have to get into “conspiracy theories”, because “everybody else got into the conspiracy theories,” and he is above the crowd. I find it hard to explain that this is the same Josiah Thompson who published in 1967 a book titled Six Seconds in Dallas: a micro-study of the Kennedy assassination proving that three gunmen murdered the President, for which he studied the Zapruder film and interviewed eyewitnesses in order to come up with a plausible line of fire, and the conclusion of a conspiracy and government cover-up. What happened to Josiah in between?

Russ Baker has posted on his website WhoWhatWhy a couple of articles in reaction to Thompson’s NYT interview: here and here. Contrary to Thompson, he finds Witt’s explanation literally unbelievable, and opts for the theory of the “signal man”: the Umbrella Man was “signaling the shooters, perhaps that JFK had been hit, perhaps that he still seemed to be alive, perhaps to keep shooting.” That theory, adopted by film director Oliver Stone for his 1991 movie JFK, is of course far more credible than the theory of the fléchette-shooting umbrella that Thompson chose to mention to his own satisfaction. But I must say I find it not entirely convincing. I cannot conceive that professional snipers would need such a conspicuous accomplice, standing almost in their line of fire (in the case of those shooting from the Grassy Knoll).

I also find no reason to doubt, as Baker does, that Witt was the real Umbrella Man. Witt was identified by neighbors and local newsmen before he came forward to the HSCA, and the photos of him on Dealey Plaza seem to match.

Baker borrows from John Simkin of Spartacus Educational the opinion that the umbrella was never the symbol of Chamberlain anyway, and so that Witt’s explanation makes no sense. Baker is wrong on that point, apparently. The umbrella was so much the iconic trademark of Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain that cartoonist David Low of the London Evening Standard, not only systematically drew him with his umbrella, but even drew him as an umbrella!

Chamberlain, who became a reviled symbol of appeasement (his biography bears the significant title, More Than Munich: The Forgotten Legacy of Neville Chamberlain) was the archetypal Umbrella Man.

According to Edward Miller,

“Umbrella protests first began in England after Chamberlain arrived home from the [Munich] conference carrying his trademark accessory. Wherever Chamberlain traveled, the opposition party in Britain protested his appeasement at Munich by displaying umbrellas.”[1]Edward H. Miller, “Umbrella Man”, November 22, 2013, on The Historical Society, on http://histsociety.blogspot.com/2013/11/umbrella-man.html

Louie Steven Witt declares in his testimony to the HSCA that he had heard that “some members of the Kennedy family” had once been offended in an airport by people brandishing umbrellas. I haven’t found any confirmation that Joseph Kennedy or any other Kennedy had been heckled by open umbrellas as a “silent protest” against their objectionable lack of love for the Jews, but I find it plausible that “the umbrella was a sore spot to the Kennedys,” as Witt put it in his HSCA testimony. So John Kennedy being heckled with Chamberlain’s umbrella at the same time as being assassinated under Ben-Gurion’s order does strike me as both plausible and significant, as a sort of cryptic signature by the Zionist-Irgun mafia.

In my view, summarized here, John Kennedy was assassinated by Israel for three major reasons:

Dimona: President Kennedy, who had made nuclear disarmament his grand mission on the international level, and was on the way to achieve it with Khrushchev (as shown by James Douglass in JFK and the Unspeakable), was determined to stop Israel developing its own nuclear bomb. According to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi’s interpretation, it was to plunge into the Israeli deep state and supervise Kennedy’s assassination that Ben-Gurion resigned in July 1963 before receiving Kennedy’s ultimatum letter demanding inspections of Dimona.

American Zionist Council: John Kennedy and his Attorney General Bobby Kennedy had infuriated Zionist leaders by supporting an investigation led by Senator William Fulbright (whom Kennedy had been prevented to name as Secretary of State) aimed at registering the American Zionist Council as a “foreign agent” subject to the obligations defined by the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938, which would have rendered its lobbying division, the AIPAC, near powerless. On October 11, 1963, the AZC received a formal demand from RFK’s office to register within 72 hours (details here).

Nasser: Kennedy unequivocally supported Arab nationalism in 1957 as a senator,[2]“Remarks of Senator John F. Kennedy, ‘The New Dimensions of American Foreign Policy,” University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, November 1, 1957”; Arthur Schlesinger, A Thousand Days: John Kennedy in the White House (1965), Mariner Books, 2002, p. 554. reversed Eisenhower’s foreign polity in a pro-Nasser way (as documented by Philip Muehlenbeck, Betting on the Africans: John F. Kennedy’s Courting of African Nationalist Leaders, Oxford UP, 2012), and committed the U.S. to support U.N. Resolution 194 for the right of return of Palestinian refugees. That was a major threat to Zionist interests, who had bet on making Nasser an enemy of the United States.

To these reasons for assassinating Kennedy, we must add the opposite reasons for putting Johnson instead in the Oval Office, for Johnson buried both the Dimona and the AZC proceedings, and cut U.S. support for Nasser’s in order to boost support to Israel. In 1967, he would commit high treason against his own country by allowing and covering-up Israel’s failed false-flag attack on the USS Liberty. No wonder Israel loved Johnson as much as they hated Kennedy.

In the Zionists’ view, JFK’s anti-Israel policies (discreet or secret) were part of a more general “Kennedy problem” that went back to his father’s attempt to prevent WWII by supporting Chamberlain’s appeasement with Hitler rather than Churchill’s appeasement with Stalin. According to German documents declassified in 1949, the German Ambassador in London, Herbert von Dirksen, after meeting U.S. ambassador Joseph P. Kennedy in 1938, wrote that he “understood our Jewish policy completely,” and was “Germany’s best friend” in London.[3]Edward Renehan Jr., “Joseph Kennedy and the Jews”, History News Network; Kellen Perry, – “The Dark Side Of Joe Kennedy Sr.” allthatsinteresting.com, April 17, 2017. When Roosevelt entered the war, Joseph Kennedy resigned, and later complained privately that, “the Jews have won the war.”[4]Quoted in Herbert Druks, John F. Kennedy and Israel, Praeger Security International, 2005, p. 10 According to biographer David Nasaw, Joseph was not an anti-Semite in the racial sense, but rather someone who believed in a Jewish conspiracy to push the United States into an unnecessary war with Germany (Nasaw insists he was mistaken, because “Jewish influence on American foreign influence was negligible, its influence on the State Department nonexistent”).[5]David Nasaw, The Patriarch: The Remarkable Life and Turbulent Times of Joseph P. Kennedy, Penguin, 2015, p. 509.

Zionists had reasons to fear that Joseph Kennedy did “inject some poisonous drops of anti-Semitism in the minds of his children, including his son John’s” (as printed in September 1960 by the Herut, Menachem Begin’s political party).[6]Alan Hart, Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews, vol. 2: David Becomes Goliath, Clarity Press, 2013, p. 252. In 1940, John had published a book titled Why England Slept, adapted from his Harvard thesis which was, as the title alluded, a response to Churchill’s 1938 book While England Slept, and a veiled support for his father’s pro-appeasement views. In his Pulitzer prize-winning book Profiles in Courage (1956), Kennedy had declared his admiration for Senator Robert Taft, who by calling the Nuremberg trials a shameful parody of justice had sacrificed his political career, including his chances for the presidency, rather than build it on hypocrisy. Although Zionists probably didn’t know it until recently, in 1945, JFK had written the following in his diary, as quoted here by Abigail Abrams:

“You can easily understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambition for his country which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world, but he had a mystery about him in the way he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made.”[7]Abigail Abrams, “Auction of Rare Diary Highlights What John F. Kennedy Really Thought About Hitler,” Time, March 23, 2017, on https://time.com/4711687/john-f-kennedy-diary-hitler/

Joseph Jr., Joseph Sr., and John Kennedy in 1938
Joseph Jr., Joseph Sr., and John Kennedy in 1938

The Kennedys were a family of strong traditions and strong convictions. They had to be destroyed, politically as had Charles Lindbergh (1902-1974), and if necessary physically, before they extirpate America from Zionists’ clutches.

Dallas was an Israeli coup, ordered from Tel Aviv with Johnson’s support, and supervised by the local B’nai B’rith under the cover of the Dallas Citizens Council, who was sponsoring Kennedy’s visit, and of whom Abraham Zapruder himself was a member (watch his satisfaction when interviewed two hours after JFK’s assassination in the History Channel documentary JFK – 3 Shots That Changed America , at 43:34).

When trying to make sense of Dallas’ Umbrella Man, we are faced with a dilemma: should we believe Witt’s explanation of his strange behavior (as does Josiah Thompson), or should we consider him an accomplice to the assassination (as does Russ Baker)? Only in the framework of the Israeli theory pioneered by Michael Collins Piper is it possible to surmount the dilemma.

Let’s recap what we know for certain. Fact number 1: on the sunny day of November 22, 1963, one man was standing on the President’s motorcade route with an open umbrella, at the precise moment and place when JFK was shot. To assume that the Umbrella Man’s strange behavior and JFK’s assassination are unrelated is unreasonable. The coincidence is just too improbable.

Fact number 2: In 1978, Louie Steven Witt claimed in front of the HSCA that he was the Umbrella Man and explained that he wanted to heckle JFK about his father’s policy of appeasement of Hitler in 1938.

Although Thompson and Baker disagree about everything else, they agree that there can be no connection between John Kennedy’s assassination and Joseph Kennedy’s appeasement policy. That is where they are both wrong.

Was Louie Steven Witt a Zionist agent, a sayan? Not necessarily. Operations like the JFK assassination are planned on a strict need-to-know basis: no one knows more than he needs to know. Witt declared to the HSCA that he belonged to no organization whatsoever. He summarized his motivation for his “bad joke” in these words:

“In a coffee break conversation someone had mentioned that the umbrella was a sore spot with the Kennedy family. Being a conservative-type fellow, I sort of placed him in the liberal camp and I was just going to kind of do a little heckling.”

What would be interesting to know is: who inspired Witt during his coffee break? Did the coffee break take place in the office of Witt’s Jewish boss, director of the Rio Grande National Life insurance Co. in Dallas? Did Witt have insurmountable debts, like Jacob Rubenstein, aka Jack Ruby? Russ Baker mentions that the company wrote a lot of insurance for the military and was located in the same building that housed the local office of the highly negligent Secret Service.

Mr Witt, would you kindly come forward again and answer a few questions?

Laurent Guyénot is the author of JFK-9/11: 50 years of Deep State , Progressive Press, 2014, and From Yahweh to Zion: Jealous God, Chosen People, Promised Land … Clash of Civilizations, 2018. (or $30 shipping included from Sifting and Winnowing, POB 221, Lone Rock, WI 53556).

Notes

[1] Edward H. Miller, “Umbrella Man”, November 22, 2013, on The Historical Society, on http://histsociety.blogspot.com/2013/11/umbrella-man.html

[2] “Remarks of Senator John F. Kennedy, ‘The New Dimensions of American Foreign Policy,” University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, November 1, 1957”; Arthur Schlesinger, A Thousand Days: John Kennedy in the White House (1965), Mariner Books, 2002, p. 554.

[3] Edward Renehan Jr., “Joseph Kennedy and the Jews”, History News Network; Kellen Perry, – “The Dark Side Of Joe Kennedy Sr.” allthatsinteresting.com, April 17, 2017.

[4] Quoted in Herbert Druks, John F. Kennedy and Israel, Praeger Security International, 2005, p. 10

[5] David Nasaw, The Patriarch: The Remarkable Life and Turbulent Times of Joseph P. Kennedy, Penguin, 2015, p. 509.

[6] Alan Hart, Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews, vol. 2: David Becomes Goliath, Clarity Press, 2013, p. 252.

[7] Abigail Abrams, “Auction of Rare Diary Highlights What John F. Kennedy Really Thought About Hitler,” Time, March 23, 2017, on https://time.com/4711687/john-f-kennedy-diary-hitler/

 
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  1. aandrews says:

    Infuriating. Difficult to read.

  2. The sins of the father

    It’s clear that the Hollywood mafia thinks this way. “The Boy in the Striped Pajamas” is a snuff film glorifying the death of an innocent young boy to punish his evil father. This sick film won awards and high praise for it. “Django Unchained” is the same, only from a black perspective and without the explicit targeting of children. Again, praised to the skies by the Hollywood crowd. Our country is run by psychopaths.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @Ted Heath
  3. Polemos says:

    Thompson’s lean and fixed stare into the camera at the end of the film unsettles me.

    Sometimes the many harmless or non-sinister valid explanations I cannot come up with “on my own” are not on my mind because I kept asking questions and did more research and sought more views and came to darker and weirder conclusion about those facts.

    • Replies: @chris
  4. lloyd says: • Website

    There is now the umbrella revolution in Hong Kong to end appeasement with China by last British Governor Patton.

  5. What are he mathematical possibilities of one vegetarian filming the assassination of JFK and another vegetarian killing a patsy who supposedly ‘shot’ the president?

    Zapruder also netted $150,000 from Life magazine for his 26.6 seconds, 8mm clip.

  6. utu says:

    “inject some poisonous drops of anti-Semitism in the minds of his children, including his son John’s”

    May 11, 1962 White House visit of Charles A. Lindbergh and his wife, Anne Morrow Lindbergh is clear indication on where JFK stood on the issues of ‘1938’, ‘WWII”, and ‘the Jews’ that he was loyal to his father’s views.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/11/monalisa_excerpt200811
    President Kennedy wanted the reclusive Charles Lindbergh and his wife, Anne, to be invited as well because they were “great Americans.” Jackie told Baldrige that she was an admirer of Anne Lindbergh’s writing. To the surprise of many, the couple accepted the invitation and agreed to stay overnight at the White House. Jackie saw to it that Lindbergh was seated at the president’s table […] Baldrige later wrote, “the attendance of the Lindberghs caused a sensation.”

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyenot
  7. I looked at 43:34 of the documentary posted with Zupruder being interviewed shortly after the assassination; and what I see is a man aghast and at a loss for words, not “satisfied” as you supposed.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyenot
    , @Issar
  8. utu says:

    There is no better theory of JFK assassination than outlined by the author. JFK’s assassination made possible the acquisition of nuclear arsenal by Israel and the unhindered growth of the most important foreign lobby such as AIPAC. On the cui bono question Israel is a perfect match. Israel gained everything form the JFK’s death.

    • Agree: Iris, Durruti
    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @lysias
  9. gotmituns says:

    “You can easily understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived,” Kennedy wrote in his diary in 1945.
    —————————————————————————————–
    JFK was a real man.

    • Agree: Pheasant
  10. PeterMX says:

    Fascinating article. JFK’s assassination is one of my earliest memories. It is amazing what you learn 50, 60, 70 years or longer after an event. It is amazing what you learn about people long after they died.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  11. Franz says:

    To assume that the Umbrella Man’s strange behavior and JFK’s assassination are unrelated is unreasonable. The coincidence is just too improbable.

    And too many other improbable things happened that day.

    Dick Nixon (later R.M Nixon) and Daddy Bush (later President Bush I) both in town for the show? Too improbable… oh wait, that happened too.

    “The Umbrella Man” (fine title) would make a great absurdist drama along the lines of Pere Ubu. I strongly suggest aspiring playwrights to give it a go.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @AceDeuce
  12. dearieme says:

    Wherever Chamberlain traveled, the opposition party in Britain protested his appeasement at Munich by displaying umbrellas.

    But the opposition party, Labour, was even keener on appeasement than he was. Hell, they were still opposing conscription after Hitler had started his invasion of Poland. So I incline to disbelieve that yarn.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @anon
    , @SeanInNYC
  13. @aandrews

    Infuriating? Did it trouble your confirmation bias or what?

    Difficult to read? Start with children’s books and work your way up. Always keep a dictionary handy and look up any words that you don’t understand.

    It makes sense to me that an order was given to the various independent snipers that Kennedy was to be shot at the precise moment when the presidential limousine drew level with the man holding an open umbrella, that way it would be easier to blame the shots on just one individual. It would also mean that the hit could be called off at any time just by the umbrella man not opening it up.

    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @aandrews
    , @Sparkon
    , @Iris
    , @Lurker
  14. I am absolutely certain that the murder of JFK was the work of a group of conspirators rather than an individual. The umbrella man is not new to me. I never gave him much thought though I have read work by others who factor him as a key role in the assassination. The interview of Josiah Thompson was most thought provoking in that it showed how someone on the periphery of a big event can be implicated theoretically yet really it appeared to be nothing more than happenstance.

    The takeaway from this is that we should never take for granted the basic tenet of our justice system that presumes innocence. The burden of proof of guilt lies with those making the accusation. Was the umbrella man a participant in that homicide? I don’t know and there is really no evidence proving otherwise.

    Let’s keep our eye on the ball. Sadly no one will ever be held to account for that murder. That is not to say that the truth will never be known. One day we will know exactly what happened and who was responsible. The lesson here is to not get immersed in that which can not be proven but can also detract from those who were really responsible.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  15. Sean says:

    https://i2.wp.com/jfkfacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Bond-5.png?resize=243%2C185&ssl=1

    The only mystery is who the African American couple on the bench in front of the Grassy Knoll were, they showed good sense in not coming forward considering the nonsense talked about everyone else there that day.

    It is very sad to see Unz publish an article like this.

    • Troll: Iris
  16. To these reasons for assassinating Kennedy, we must add the opposite reasons for putting Johnson instead in the Oval Office

    There are jewish sites, who claim LBJ was of jewish origin, and the first jewish president.

    Interestingly, these sites are not available any longer, they have been taken down.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/politics-and-world-leaders/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson/
    To me, if jewish sites vanish with information on some topic, it is usually to keep the lid on it.
    “let’s discuss it further in private Moishe, oy veh,the goyim got wind of it”

    After John F. Kennedy was killed and Lyndon Johnson became the 36th president, LBJ told an Israeli diplomat, “You have lost a very great friend. But you have found a better one.”

    https://www.jta.org/2018/05/07/politics/lyndon-johnson-no-better-friend

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyenot
  17. GMC says:

    A very plausible explanation – once we look back and see that the Kennedy’s , weren’t the only family assassinated , compared to the tens of millions murdered – including Russians, Germans, Europeans, Americans, Arabs, and many others. It’s not a conspiracy theory when the evidence is overwhelming and the opposition is afraid to debate the situations that will incriminate . The Zionists are very bold today and are actually – telling on themselves – because they have most of the West – in their pocket. Not much surprises me anymore – the alternate press has blown the cover off – more liars, thieves and murderers , than I ever realized. Thanks Unz Rev.

    • Agree: follyofwar
  18. @Jack Fortin

    The takeaway from this is that we should never take for granted the basic tenet of our justice system that presumes innocence.

    Does it? In the case of “holocaust” the presumption of innocence is not granted, which is unique. The claiming side have no proof whatsoever.

    Is the presumtion of innocence granted to the many prisoners in Guantanamo? Surely not, the US claim “Abu Mustafa” did 911, Abu is tortured until he confesses he ate a million babies on top of flying his carpet in a tower.

    • Replies: @Jack Fortin
  19. RodW says:

    I’m quite happy to believe that Jews killed JFK, but things like this are a very thin reed to hang anything on;

    Dallas was an Israeli coup, ordered from Tel Aviv with Johnson’s support, and supervised by the local B’nai B’rith under the cover of the Dallas Citizens Council, who was sponsoring Kennedy’s visit, and of whom Abraham Zapruder himself was a member (watch his satisfaction when interviewed two hours after JFK’s assassination in the History Channel documentary JFK – 3 Shots That Changed America , at 43:34).

    Zapruder’s expression is totally equivocal. His strange momentary smile could be the natural reaction of someone who is suddenly embarrassed to be on the point of tears. You can’t make history out of ‘testimony’ this weak.

    Dimona: President Kennedy, who had made nuclear disarmament his grand mission on the international level, and was on the way to achieve it with Khrushchev (as shown by James Douglass in JFK and the Unspeakable), was determined to stop Israel developing its own nuclear bomb.

    This is the same James Douglass who was incapable of spotting the obvious difference between Oswald’s wide head and Billy Nolan Lovelady’s narrow head, thereby establishing himself as someone who is unreliable with any evidence.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  20. Truth3 says:

    The Mossad tool Zapruder was exactly like the Dancing Israelis of 9/11… he was there to document the event.

    History repeats… or, it’s a Hyman Rhymin’.

    • LOL: Digital Samizdat
    • Replies: @Ivegotrythm
  21. @Germanicus

    Exactly what I thought when I realized the webpage of Jewish Life that I screenshot was taken away, like the one from the 5 Towns Jewish Times saying “Our First Jewish President Lyndon Johnson?” (of which I didn’t get a screenshot). So I’ve just save the screenshot of the page of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency that you mention, titled: “Lyndon Johnson: no better friend”
    the article says:

    “Johnson was the most emotionally committed to Israel of any American president — a fact that is not popularly known but is clear from his background,” Dennis Ross, a veteran Middle East negotiator in Republican and Democratic administrations, said last year at a symposium of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, where he is counselor.
    Johnson was the first president to invite an Israeli prime minister, Levi Eshkol, on a state visit. They got along so well — both men were farmers — that Johnson paid Eshkol the rare compliment of inviting him to his ranch.
    LBJ soon abandoned pressure on Israel to come clean about the Dimona reactor. He increased arms sales to Israel and in 1968, after Israel’s primary supplier, France, imposed an embargo as a means of cultivating ties in the Arab world, the United States became Israel’s main supplier of weapons, notably launching the talks that would lead to the sale of Phantom fighter jets to Israel.
    Johnson wanted to commit more forcefully to Israel’s cause in the lead-up to the 1967 Six-Day War, but he felt constrained from a dramatic show of military might because of the failures of the war in Vietnam then dogging his presidency. Nonetheless, during the war, he ordered warships to within 50 miles of Syria’s coast as a warning to the Soviets not to interfere.
    In a speech in the war’s immediate aftermath, Johnson effectively nipped in the bud any speculation that the United States would pressure Israel to unilaterally give up the lands it had captured. He laid down not only the “land for peace” formula that would inform subsequent U.N. Security Council resolutions, but made it clear that any formula had to ensure Jewish access to Jerusalem’s Old City.

    Thanks

    • Replies: @Ivy Mike
  22. @utu

    Thanks utu. I wasn’t aware of the Kennedys inviting the Lindberghs. I find it very symbolic and significant (and certainly a cause to worry for the Zionists). Here is a photo of JFK and Lindberg on that day: https://www.jfklibrary.org/asset-viewer/archives/JFKWHP/1962/Month%2005/Day%2011/JFKWHP-1962-05-11-D
    BTW, I think it was you who commented on the Thompson itw in my Kennedy article, wasn’t it?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @niteranger
  23. fnn says:

    They’re telling you you’d better shut up:

  24. @Stonehands

    Well, I thought I saw him smile, but I might have overinterpreted. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Truth3
  25. anon[222] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Rich

    Zaapruder’s daughter is a Holocaust education professional

    https://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/antisemitism-podcast/alexandra-zapruder

    ###
    RIP JFK

  26. utu says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    BTW, I think it was you who commented on the Thompson itw in my Kennedy article, wasn’t it? – I forgot about it but indeed I did:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-i-what-happened/?showcomments#comment-2378252

  27. HorstG says:

    An endless stream of articles, theories, release of “secret” records. We will never know for sure. My favorite theory is the event was completely staged. Considering this, ridiculous blatant details like the umbrella man, or people covering on the gras while reporters stand next to them make finally sense. The layout of the streets of the plaza look similar like the lower section of the world trade center. Place and event are full of symbols. It’s an evil psychologic operation, going on until today. We need to realize this, media, justice and politics are accomplices. Same game with the Epstein case, an endless stream of arrests, records…

  28. Pheasant says:
    @Daniel Rich

    They donated half that money to a police charity on behalf of officers killed/wounded that day to be fair.

    And by Kennedy wanting Israel nuke free is more than enough to prompt his assasination even though he was hated by the entire military industrial complex.

    • Replies: @gkruz
  29. Pheasant says:
    @utu

    The Kennedy family was hated by a lot of powerul people to be fair.

  30. Pheasant says:
    @Sean

    Also the babushka lady has not been identified and she also recorded the incident just like Zapruder who was an Ashkenazi Jew who spoke bad english and died a few years afterwards while his film was not shown in full for decades.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  31. Dumbo says:
    @NobodyKnowsImADog

    “The boy in the stripped pajamas” is so bad it’s almost funny. Well I laughed. That’s when Holocaust movies jumped the shark.

    “Django Unchained” is in some ways worse. White characters who were not even “evil” are killed just for laughs. An abominable movie. Tarantino should be ashamed.

    • Replies: @NobodyKnowsImADog
    , @Lurker
  32. “The killing of the King – An ancient Masonic ritual ” – falsificationofhistoryco.uk
    “King kill 33 : Masonic symbolism in the assassinationf of JFK ” – revisionisthistory.org

    “Masonry does not believe in murdering a man in just any old way …”

    Were Kennedy’s alleged wounds consistent with the wounds inflicted on Hiram Abiff ? Was Dealey Plaza the site of the first Masonic temple in Texas ?

  33. The zionist takeover of America was completed when they had JFK shot for wanting to pull out of Vietnam and wanting to stop Israel from getting nuclear weapons and for signing executive order 11110 that would end the FED.

    • Agree: Sulu
  34. Truth3 says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    The odds of it being a Jew taking a video of JFK… if somebody WAS taking film right at the right spot (if it was just coincindental) was over 100 to 1 that day.

    Jews were less than 1% of the Dallas population at that time.

    The odds of Jack Ruby (Rubinstein) killing Oswald just because Ruby felt bad for Jackie Kennedy are nil.

    The odds of the Warren Commission covering up the crime and conspiracy if they weren’t Jew controlled is also nil (See the zio-plant Arlen Specter’s ability to come up with a magic bullet theory and have the commission embrace it… and see how that POS Specter was rewarded… a career in Congress).

    The odds of LH Oswald pulling the trigger three times in less than 6 seconds and hitting moving targets from TWO DIRECTIONS is impossible.

    Finally… Cui Bono?

    Jews hated Kennedy, Johnson loved Jews, Israel hated Kennedy, Israel Mossad was involved with the Mob, the Mob hated Kennedy, on and on and on…

    Occam’s Razor should Rule…

    Jews killed Kennedy, and covered it up. 99.9999999999% probability. That’s way the f#@k past any reasonable doubt.

    • Replies: @Durruti
    , @gkruz
  35. Truth3 says:

    The Courts accept DNA evidence routinely, even though DNA evidence relies on a level of probability… at far less levels of certainty than 1 in a Million probability of error.

    The Courts also should rely on Statistical Probability Constructs, where if the assembled system of probability exceeds a threshold (say, 99.9999%, or 1 in a Million), then certainty should be the reaction.

    If so… Israel and Jews would be forced to reconsider the risks, or to refrain from their crimes to a degree. Why? Because 9/11 and the JFK killing, along with RFK and RFK, Jr. become re-examinable under the basis of probability analysis. Future Crimes would be as well.

  36. HoekomSA says:

    Ther is an interesting clip of film showing the guards to Kennedys limousine beingcalled away from guarding the president
    https://whowhatwhy.org/2015/08/20/classic-who-must-watch-video-secret-service-agent-pulled-off-jfk-car-2/
    So members of the secret service were in on the assasination and facilitated it.

    If this was straight assasination why go to so much trouble. The CIA had at the time developed weapons that could assasinate by giving heart attacks or cancer and were discussed in the church committee investigation into the CIA. It would have been very easy for someone to assasinte kennedy for instance when he was viting Marilyn Monroe or his many mistresses. An affair is a good excuse for a heart attack.
    No the murder of kennedy was not just about getting rid of him. It was a highly symbolic , even ritualistic act.
    It showed ultimately the power of the conspirators. It showed the impotence of the public. Its about immobilising effective resistance to the elite. Conspiracy theories become part of the psychological control that they hold over the mass mind. The umbrella man is part of that symbolic control

  37. Sparkon says:

    “No wonder Israel loved Johnson as much as they hated Kennedy.”

    You should have written:

    No wonder Johnson hated Kennedy as much as he loved Israel.

    Was Johnson having an affair with Israeli agent Mathilde Krim? Did LBJ have reason to fear he was liable to be dumped from the Democratic ticket in 1964 because of the Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes scandals? Why did Richard Nixon lie about his own presence in Dallas when Kennedy was killed? Why was George HW Bush for a long time unable to remember his whereabouts on Nov. 22?

    With previous assassination plots in Chicago and Tampa, and the JBS handing out these posters in Dallas, it was dereliction of duty for the Secret Service to have failed to clear high rise buildings in Dallas on the motorcade route. Indeed, it was against their own regulations for Kennedy’s limousine to have made those sharp, slow-speed turns that took it through Dealey Plaza, and it was nothing short of being an accomplice to murder for Secret Service driver William Greer to have allowed JFK’s limousine to slow to a stop in the killing zone when shots rang out.

    With all that, I see umbrella man as nothing but a big red herring.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  38. The issue decided at Munich was the peaceful return of Sudeten Germans to their homeland, from which they had been exiled by the Versailles treaty in clear violation of Woodrow Wilson’s promise to Europe of self-determination for all her peoples. The Czechoslovakia to which they had been assigned was created by the victors of World War I out of parts of Germany, Hungary, Austria and Romania. It had no historical existence until 1919 and was brought into being, like Poland, specifically to surround a disarmed and territorially reduced Germany within a ring of hostile militarized states. 3.5 million Germans were forcibly placed under the harsh rule of the newly created nationalist Czech regime, which was dominated by ethnic Czechs, although they constituted barely a quarter of the new nation’s population. Despite initial promises to the contrary, the new rulers endorsed a constitution in 1920 which contained no guarantees of equal civil rights for all ethnic groups.

    By the way, in October 1938, Polish troops invaded and annexed the iron-rich eastern part of Czechoslovakia, Tesín Silesia (including Ostrava, the third largest city in today’s Czech Republic), to which Poland had no historical claim. There was no word of protest from the western democracies over this outrage.

    As an Irish-American, Joseph Kennedy had no love for Great Britain and thought it proper that Germany should give her a good drubbing for starting a new European war in 1939 on the flimsiest of excuses. Both Churchill and FDR despised him and kept him out of the loop even though he was the US ambassador to England.

  39. @RodW

    Zapruder’s expression is totally equivocal.

    OK, but that was just on the side: I’m not building anything on that. This whole article is just an anecdotic appendix to my main Kennedy article.

    This is the same James Douglass who was incapable of…

    Yes, I am aware of the many shortcomings of Douglass, including his many blind spots (never heard of Dimona, believes Johnson was such a good guy that, having failed to prevent the assassination of his beloved president, he at least prevented the invasion of Cuba that it was meant to trigger, etc.). Nevertheless, his book opened my eyes to Kennedy’s determination to disarm the world and end the Cold War.

  40. @Daniel Rich

    I don’t know how many of you remember this, but when the still photos were first shown in either Time or Life, the critical frames showing Kennedy’s head reacting to the bullets hitting him were reversed. Yes. They were presented in backwards order.

    What this did was to show Kennedy’s head moving forward, giving the impression that he was shot only from the back. Alert readers brought this up. If I remember correctly, the frame numbers were clearly visible so there was no weaseling out of it.

    In their correct sequence, they show Kennedy’s head snapping backwards, as though shot from the front. Which is why chunks of his brain and skull ended up on the lid of the trunk and not in the front seat.

  41. bluedog says:
    @Sean

    Strange how some people are always opposed to the truth no matter what the subject is,makes one wonder just what their agenda is,is it being a troll,a shill or simply a bearer of misinformation.!!!

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  42. aandrews says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    It dawned on me when I posted that last night, and someone immediately posted a “Disagree”, that it could be interpreted differently from what I intended. It was infuriating because Israel and Zionist Jews have such control that they can kill a US president and get away with it. Difficult to read because there’s nothing that can be done about it, they have essentially complete control. I’ve been reading variations on this story for ever, and it’s difficult to plow through yet another article describing yet another layer of detail. And the general population is oblivious, would consider you a nutcase if you even brought it up.

    • Replies: @SurfingUSA
    , @NoseytheDuke
  43. Tom Walsh says:

    This video gives a reasonable take on the assassination

  44. @aandrews

    Your idiotic comment is what’s infuriating. Learn to read, bro.

  45. @PeterMX

    It is also amazing that, 56 years after the terrible event that ruined America, Mr. Trump has been prevented from releasing the rest of the “top secret” files, in spite of his promise to do so.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  46. kentroversypapers.blogspot.com : ” Dealey Plaza : Esoteric Freemasonic symbolism in the death of JFK ”
    “The Warren Commission was filled with Freemasons who all took part in obscuring the ritualistic Freemasonic murder of JFK .” Kent

    • Replies: @Emblematic
  47. lysias says:
    @utu

    The reactor at Dimona went critical on Dec. 26, 1963.

    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  48. @lysias

    Agree, it is all laid out in the book Blood in the Water by Joan Mellen, about the attack on the USS Liberty and the assassination of JFK.

  49. @Sparkon

    Per The Daily Beast (7-11-2017): “Why JFK Wanted to Drop LBJ for Reelection.”

    “Just days before he was assassinated, JFK confided to his secretary that he wanted to replace his vp when he ran for reelection – he didn’t think LBJ was fit for president.”

    Later in the piece: Looking straight ahead and without hesitating he replied, “At this time I am thinking about Gov. Terry Sanford of NC. But it will not be Lyndon.”

    Jack didn’t want LBJ as his vp in the first place, but thought that the only way he could win was to put that evil SOB on the ticket. He probably was right, as LBJ delivered Texas. Given the decades long national trauma, from which the country has never recovered, it would have been far better if Nixon had won.

    • Replies: @Prester John
    , @Durruti
  50. lysias says:

    Oliver Stone’s JFK blames the CIA, the military, and LBJ, makes no mention of Israel, and treats Ruby and Zapruder sympathetically. No doubt explained by the fact that the movie was funded abd produced by Israeli superagent Arnon Milchan.

    The movie is a limited hangout made to ensure that those who cannot swallow the obvious lies of the Warren Commission will direct their anger otherwise than at Israel.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
    , @refl
  51. S says:

    Fascinating take regarding the symbolism of the umbrella prominently displayed by the bystander at the JFK assassination.

    If you’ve not seen the ‘I’m Here to Kill a King’ episode of the very US establishment friendly TV series Route 66 originally scheduled for a Nov 29, 1963 broadcast (but dropped from the lineup and rebroadcast months later) you might find it of some interest. [Youtube has a complete very clean free copy of that episode title available for viewing.]

    The plot closely parallels the actual JFK assassination, (complete with an Oswald ‘patsy’/’fall guy’ like character that has a ‘doppelganger’, or ‘body double’, which many think was an actual aspect of Kennedy’s assassination) and hence it’s rescheduling.

    Particularly of interest is the dialogue on the boat from 31:00 – 33:00 where the fall guy/patsy character is told he was chosen for his role as he worked at the site of the planned for assassination and that it was like ‘somebody had pulled the strings’ behind the scenes to make it so. [While that was being filmed in October, 1963, simultaneously in real time (October 16, 1963) Lee Harvey Oswald was being hired on at the Texas School Book Depository.]

    Interestingly, there is a strong paralleling ‘911 theme underlying this 1963 chief executive assassination episode (obvious when you watch it) of Arabs, ‘ground zero’, and New York.

    Relatedly, within Freemasonry there seems to be a strong ‘killing the king’ motif at work…ie the execution of King Charles I of England for instance as described below at a Masonic website regarding the 2003 movie To Kill A King:

    This is arguably the most important historic film for Freemasonry because the framework we recognize as Freemasonry began to emerge during the events of this time. It is set against the backdrop of the English Civil War, which was waged by Parliament, representing the people, against their king, Charles I. Charles lost and was beheaded. Going king-less didn’t end up working out for the British people, but it did set events in motion that would give rise for the English enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution.

    JFK’s assassination has some broad parallels with the spectacle of the 1649 public execution of Charles I by beheading.

    One being, that just as in 1649 England and the execution of King Charles I, for a broad range of the US public something more died on November 22, 1963 than ‘merely’ President John F Kennedy:

    At about 2:00 p.m., Charles put his head on the block after saying a prayer and signalled the executioner when he was ready by stretching out his hands; he was then beheaded with one clean stroke. According to observer Philip Henry, a moan “as I never heard before and desire I may never hear again” rose from the assembled crowd, some of whom then dipped their handkerchiefs in the king’s blood as a memento.

    http://niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2013/Sep3/lostepisode.html

    https://freemason-wa.org/2016/07/20/33-historical-films-every-freemason-see/

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I_of_England

    • Replies: @NobodyKnowsImADog
  52. @HoekomSA

    It showed ultimately the power of the conspirators. It showed the impotence of the public. Its about immobilizing effective resistance to the elite. Conspiracy theories become part of the psychological control that they hold over the mass mind. The umbrella man is part of that symbolic control

    You nailed it. Also note this was an “Event”, where hit men from all over the world (many of whom worked as contractors for various intelligence agencies) converged in one place to honor their craft. A select few participated in the actual execution, the rest were there to confuse any future investigators with false leads.

    This was a modern ritual sacrifice–think of it as alchemy in action.

    • Agree: refl
  53. LondonBob says:

    Umbrella man was Roy Hargraves and his companion was his long time brother in arms Felipe Vidal Santiago.

    A signal man was needed so they knew when to shoot and when to stop, if you accept several shooting teams, the second shooter in Book Depositary would have been in a side window and not seen the car approach.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyenot
  54. LondonBob says:

    Never heard of Chamberlain being associated with umbrellas either, so why a Yank would is odd.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  55. Agent76 says:

    September 24, 2019 The Coverup of President John F. Kennedy’s Assassination Is Wearing Thin

    All available evidence points to the CIA and the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, with the cooperation of the Secret Service, as the murderers of President Kennedy.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/09/24/the-coverup-of-president-john-f-kennedys-assassination-is-wearing-thin/

    Jun 13, 2015 Did the CIA Assassinate JFK?

    It is well documented that JFK wanted to break down the power of the Central Intelligence Agency. Could this have had dire consequences and let to his untimely death? Let’s have a look!

    Jan 21, 2019 Celebs and relatives of Martin Luther King Jr. call for new probe into his death ahead of his public holiday as they claim his assassination and JFK, RFK and Malcolm X’s killing were conspiracies covered up by the government

    A group of at least 60 US citizens including journalists, lawyers and historians are calling for new investigations into four history-making assassinations

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6613747/New-probes-demanded-deaths-John-F-Kennedy-Robert-F-Kennedy-Martin-Luther-King-Jr-Malcolm-X.html?ito=email_share_article-top

  56. @lysias

    Oliver Stone’s JFK blames the CIA, the military, and LBJ, makes no mention of Israel

    Is that surprising? RT loves Stone(Stein), who is jewish.

    The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.
    V.I.Ulyanov, aka Lenin

  57. lysias says:

    Since I don’t think nanothermite can be used as an explosive, I suspect its presence on 9/11 is another false lead. No doubt there were others.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    , @Truth3
  58. skeptic23 says:

    so we must conclude, on the basis of this NYT story, that all conspiracy theories are BS. Just accept the official narrative and move along.

    • Replies: @Liza
  59. LondonBob says:
    @Pheasant

    The babushka lady is a spitting image of Jack Ruby’s sister.

  60. Agent76 says:

    Nov 23, 2016 53 YEARS AFTER JFK ASSASSINATION CIA ADMITS THIS CONSPIRACY THEORY IS ACTUALLY FACT

    Shortly after noon on November 22, 1963, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated as he rode in a motorcade through Dealey Plaza in downtown Dallas, Texas. It’s been 53 years since the assassination. Since that fateful November day, conspiracy theories have abounded. However, when we sift through the disinformation and look at only verifiable facts, we find no need for theories — as the conspiracy was a fact.

    http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB493/docs/intell_ebb_026.PDF

  61. Liza says:
    @skeptic23

    Some folks who don’t trust the government one tiny bit are still willing to go along with the officially approved story.

    As in alternative versions of 9/11, yet other parties come up with such goofy impossible scenarios that any not-approved – though possibly believable and sensible – stories are thrown out as well. Standard Operating Procedure.

  62. SafeNow says:

    In the intelligent film “Night Moves” Gene Hackman is asked, Where were you when Kennedy was assassinated? (Digression: All of us oldsters have been asked that many times. I was in the basement of my high school, at practice of the rifle team. Synchronicity.) Hackman replies, “WHICH Kennedy?” The point of the reply is: I will not impliedly condone the notion of a single such rogue event. Given the multiple rogue events and controlled explanations of recent times, the Hackman reply is even more insightful and important today.

  63. Ruckus says:
    @ThreeCranes

    What I remember clearly is 4 people in the car, and not 6. The assassination is a fairly well-known Mandela Effect. The driver shot him and had a clear shot due to there not being 2 people in the middle row, resulting in JFK’s head snapping backwards, as you say, at impact.

  64. Durruti says:

    Taken together, those twin hasbara refrains evoke a notion of divine punishment. JFK and RFK were punished for the sins of their Jew-hating, Nazi-loving father. Mind you, it was Yahweh who took vengeance, not Israel!

    Brilliant article by Guyenot.

    Thoroughly well written & informative.

    I note in passing:

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/democratic-establishment-reaches-boiling-point-with-tulsi-gabbard/ar-BBX8P8S?li=BBnb7Kz

    A Cngresswoman, Tulsi Gabbard, is being viciously slandered in article after article in the Mainstream (Zionist) Media. Read the diatribe carefully, and learn some of how the People are misdirected-brainwashed.

    Ms. Gabbard is, apparently, leading in the Polls, and the Zionist controller Power Elite are Panicky. They will do to Ms. Gabbard what they did to Ron Paul, and his campaign.

    It is a sense of frustration that We-I are not able to Revenge the murder of our last Constitutional President, John F. Kennedy, the Destruction of our Republic, the millions of murders from November 22, 1963, to the present, or to effectively defend & protect this noble lady (Ms. Gabbard).

    If we protect her, we protect ourselves and our Country. Freedom is not free. We must Pay for it!

    God Bless America!

    Durruti

    • Agree: bluedog
  65. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Israeli PM David Ben-Gurion ordered the murder of JFK, because Kennedy had stood up to that maniac regarding Israel getting nukes.

    Mossad And The JFK Assassination

    Their motive? Israel’s much touted Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, who ruled that country from its inception in 1948 until he resigned on June 16, 1963, was so enraged at John F. Kennedy for not allowing Israel to become a nuclear power that, Collins asserts, in his final days in office he commanded the Mossad to become involved in a plot to kill America’s president.

    Ben-Gurion was so convinced that Israel’s very survival was in dire jeopardy that in one of his final letters to JFK he said, “Mr. President, my people have the right to exist, and this existence is in danger.”

    In the days leading up to Ben-Gurion’s resignation from office, he and JFK had been involved in an unpublicized, contentious debate over the possibility of Israel getting nuclear capabilities. Their disagreement eventually escalated into a full-fledged war of words that was virtually ignored in the press. Ethan Bronner wrote about this secret battle between JFK and Ben-Gurion years later in a New York Times article on October 31, 1998, calling it a “fiercely hidden subject.” In fact, the Kennedy/Ben-Gurion conversations are still classified by the United States Government. Maybe this is the case because Ben-Gurion’s rage and frustration became so intense – and his power so great within Israel – that Piper contends it was at the center of the conspiracy to kill John Kennedy. This stance is supported by New York banker Abe Feinberg, who describes the situation as such: “Ben-Gurion could be vicious, and he had such a hatred of the old man [Joe Kennedy, Sr., JFK’s father].” Ben-Gurion despised Joe Kennedy because he felt that not only was he an anti-Semite, but that he had also sided with Hitler during the 1930’s and 40’s. [We will touch upon this aspect of the story in an upcoming article entitled The CIA and Organized Crime: Two Sides of the Same Coin].

    Anyway, Ben-Gurion was convinced that Israel needed nuclear weapons to insure its survival, while Kennedy was dead-set against it. This inability to reach an agreement caused obvious problems. One of them revolved around Kennedy’s decision that he would make America his top priority in regard to foreign policy, and not Israel! Kennedy planned to honor the 1950 Tripartite Declaration which said that the United States would retaliate against any nation in the Middle East that attacked any other country. Ben-Gurion, on the other hand, wanted the Kennedy Administration to sell them offensive weapons, particularly Hawk missiles.

    https://alethonews.com/2019/11/17/mossad-and-the-jfk-assassination/

    Imagine that, a US president that puts America first and not that nation of leeches, land thieves, murderers, assassins and pedophiles.

    • Agree: Desert Fox, Durruti
  66. @aandrews

    Fascinating. Difficult to digest!

    • Replies: @aandrews
  67. peterAUS says:

    No “dissenting” voices so far?! All on the same page (complex conspiracy to commit etc.)?
    Interesting.

    Probably because the topic is so worn out here that guys who take, more or less, “official”, version know the game. Just let the usual roll out and move on. Makes sense.

    Still, could send a wrong message to lurkers. You know, “echo chamber”, “group thinking”, the usual on the MSM.

    So, I’ll be the first. Hold on, deep breath, exhale….here we go:
    It was one shooter. Oswald.

    Why? As already written, several times, it is about the timing.
    It is not quite clear (which is sort of funny…) how much time passed between the first and the third shot.

    I’ve read some high tech audio stuff (didn’t get half of it….) where some, apparent, experts, couldn’t agree was it 6, 8 or 9.2 seconds. Something like that.
    Put it this way: Oswald couldn’t have done it, with that rifle, and that target, in 6 seconds. In 9,2 quite possible.

    Ah, sorry to state that won’t be reading the usual replies. Boring.

    But….I’d very carefully read somebody trying to explain, in layman terms, that time thing. Or, while after all these years, with all this tech we have now, it’s, apparently, impossible to ascertain the exact time window of the “shoot”?

    Anyway, sorry for the interruption. Sort of.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Duke84
  68. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    As, say, in:
    https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/35445

    ….Gerald Posner, in his 1993 book Case Closed, posited that the errant first shot was fired at Z 160, which put the entire shooting sequence at 8.4 seconds. (8) In the 13 years since Posner’s book, several highly respected students of the assassination have weighed in with reputable analyses of the first shot’s timing. Their estimates lead to total elapsed times of around 8.8, 8.4, and 8.6 seconds….

    8.6 seconds…doable.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  69. @ThreeCranes

    Dr.Charles Crenshaw was one of the surgeons who treated JFK when he was brought into Parkland Hospital stated that he “… considered the throat wound to be an entrance wound and the large head wound (at the right rear of JFK’s head ) to be an exit wound …Along with many of my Parkland colleagues I believed at the time that the President had been hit twice from the front .”
    “Every doctor who was in the trauma room had his own reasons for not refuting the official line ….whatever was happening was larger than any of us …anyone who went as far to eliminate the President of the United States would surely not hesitate to kill a doctor .”
    Charles Crenshaw , ” JFK Conspiracy of Silence ” 1992

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  70. @ThreeCranes

    Hi ThreeCranes!

    Fyi, in David Lifton’s important & scientific book, “Best Evidence,” he turned to a fundamental example as to why JFK’s head projected backward &abrain matter fell upon the limo’s trunk.

    Based upon physics, 🤗Mr. Lifton offered the kiddie example at a town carnival, & the act of shooting at plastic ducks. He emphasized that wounded plastic duckies fall backward, not forward.

    P.S.: David Lifton concluded unequivocally that a Secret Service role was critical to allow JFK’s murder & subsequent cover-up.

  71. @LondonBob

    Maybe so. Perhaps Baker is right: the Umbrella Man was a signal man, and Witt is not the Umbrella Man. But then, fact number 2 become even more significant: why would someone come forward to make a declaration to the HSCA that had the effect of connecting in the public psyche JFK’s public assassination to the Kennedys’ anti-Semitism, and therefore, implicitely, to Jewish vengeance?
    (I should have included that paragraph).

    • Replies: @Durruti
    , @Iris
    , @dimples
  72. Svevlad says:
    @aandrews

    Andrews is a strange last name for a kike

    • Replies: @aandrews
  73. There are some who even think that maybe Senator Edward ‘Ted’ Kennedy while he dying of brain cancer, might well have been hastened to the grave as a means of protecting President Obama!

    Indeed during Obama’s first Presidential vacation to Martha’s Vineyard, antiwar activist Cindy Sheehan, the woman who lost a son in Iraq and then woke the nation up with her camping across from the Bush ranch in Crawford Texas, was scheduled to hold a press conference in Martha’s Vineyard against Obama’s continuation of the Bush/Cheney war.

    That press conference was interrupted and the whole news cycle by the convenient passing of Senator Kennedy.

  74. @ThreeCranes

    I don’t know how many of you remember this, but when the still photos were first shown in either Time or Life, the critical frames showing Kennedy’s head reacting to the bullets hitting him were reversed. Yes. They were presented in backwards order.

    No, was not aware of that particular fact. Thanks for bringing it up though.

    Back and to the left… Back and to the left… [brilliant] Bill Hicks – JFK Assassination [link to youtube]

  75. So, could Zapruder be the predecessor to the dancing Israelis in New York on 9/11? Just sent there to record the victory for posterity?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  76. AceDeuce says:
    @Franz

    FWIW, J. Edgar was also in Dallas that day. On his own, not as part of JFK’s entourage.

    • Replies: @Duke84
  77. This “Israel did it” theory doesn’t quite answer the question of how physical evidence was destroyed and eyewitnesses intimidated by agents of the US government. This I base on an assertion in Douglass’s book JFK and the Unspeakable that men with Secret Service and FBI credentials immediately began the cover up operation. Douglass pointed to this as proof that a group of CIA insiders, no doubt loyal to Dulles, were the orchestraters. How else to get real credentials for fake agents? That still makes sense to me though M. Guyenot’s writings make it clear that the Israelis would have been happy to lend an assist.

    • Replies: @refl
    , @Justvisiting
  78. Durruti says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    JFK’s public assassination to the Kennedys’ anti-Semitism,

    Laurent Guyenot, I have already posted – my agreement with your well written analysis.

    However, (please pay attention), John F. Kennedy was not an ‘anti-Semite,’ he liked Arabs.

    Semites are Peoples from the Middle East. The overwhelming majority of Jews are NOT Semites. They hail from Europe, or from America-by route of Europe.

    I would recommend Arthur Koestler’s Thirteenth Tribe, as the first read – of many to understand & correctly use the term “Semite.”

    https://www.google.com/search?q=arthur+koestler+the+thirteenth+tribe+amazon&sxsrf=ACYBGNTD82-2bKWLk1nS4Y1-RhiBDiDtww:1574454581606&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi6ybSw1P7lAhWOxFkKHUIoA40Qsxh6BAgLECg

    The term Semite is cynically used as a misdirection tool. The Jewish Oligarch claim to be Semites, is a deceitful way of laying claim to land in the Middle East. The worst anti-Semites are Jews, who are busy Ethnically Cleansing Palestinian Arabs, stealing their lands & wealth, and, aditionally, attempting to conquer all of the Middle East, and Remove, or Exterminate the indigenous Semites.

    Orwell exposed the manipulation of Language, in his 1984, as the key tool of oppressors to reduce their subjects to slavery.

    Few are willing to expose this key manipulation of Language. Do you know of anyone else?

    Durruti

    • Agree: Patrikios Stetsonis
    • Replies: @Laurent Guyenot
  79. RouterAl says:

    A couple of years ago I finally fulfilled a promise I made to my self back in November 22nd 1963 as I sat in Edinburgh Scotland on that fateful Friday night,that I would one day visit Dealey plaza Dallas and see for my self.
    As I drove into the plaza up W Commerce street what struck me immediately was how small it all felt and as I walked around the compact size of Dealey plaza was reinforced. I had been viewing the unfolding events all these years through the lens of a narrow angle press camera and Zapruders home movie wide angle lens, which to me made the place look far more expansive than it is when you are there in person. I have been unable for some time to come up or read anyone else’s theory which explained satisfactorily the shallow back wound in Kennedy the throat wound with just a tiny knick in the tie , the wounding of Connelly, the Teague face hit, the damage to the windscreen and the chrome strip of the car and the shot which hit the grass.
    I read sometime ago a book by Richard E. Sprague

    http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/conspiracy/The%20Taking%20of%20America%201-2-3%20by%20Richard%20E.Sprague.pdf

    who claimed that umbrella man had fired a poison paralysing dart at Kennedy at about z189. I took this with a pinch of salt when I first read it. The plaza looked to big for this to have been likely and the distance from the kerb side to the car would be to large to have a realistic chance of success from an umbrella, but having visited the plaza and seeing how close he actually was, far fetched though it seems, it’s a good theory that fits what you see happening in the Z film.

    So I think Richard E. Sprague is pretty much right , first Umbrella man opens his umbrella the coloured man stands in front of him with his hand in the air and umbrella man fires his flechette hitting Kennedy in the throat. Then Kennedy’s hands go to his throat and he is quickly parallalized. The radio man passes the message to start shooting. The first shot comes in , it misses but hits the street lamp standard or the tree and fragments, one of the fragment hits Kennedy in the back and one fragment hits Teague in the face along with bits hitting the car chrome strip and windscreen. A second shot comes in and hits Connelly in the chest and Connelly starts screaming “they are going to kill us all”. The third shot hits Kennedy in the head as Z313 as he sits stiff and ridged slightly angled but upright in the car. There may have been a 4th shot from the grassy knoll which was a head shot also and a possible 5th shot , the one hit the grass in Dealey Plaza. With a sixth and possible second shot hit on Connelly. Since we now have multiple shooters and Umbrella man the timing of shots is no longer a factor not if they are coming in close together can we determine exactly how many.

    Ok but here is my justification’s for his theory. First you need to read Richard E. Sprague and his appendages .
    We have confirmation that such a weapon existed from Col Prouty.
    We have the appearance at the congressional hearing of the Umbrella man Mr Witt in 1978 himself showing the alleged umbrella he carried that day , which would be rather odd if he had turned up with the real umbrella and said this is the weapon, so he is an unreliable witness with no evidence chain to this or any umbrella, so to me he is CIA disinformation.
    He said he was putting the umbrella up and down as a protest against Joe Kennedy and Jack Kennedy as appeasers with some comment about Neville Chamberlain and his appeasement policies in WW2. Sorry Mr Umbrella man , Mr Chamberlain had died of cancer before America entered WW2 replaced by Churchill in May 1940. Secondly Mr Chamberlin was an alleged appeaser of Germany not the Soviet Union who were our supposed allies, while Jack was being accused of Soviet-Cuban appeasement over the Bay of Pigs I assume. It’s also safe to say that in the 30’s most middle class people in London wore a bowler hat carried an umbrella and a brief case.
    The lack of reaction from Mr Kennedy as his hands fall to his side when Connelly is crying out and being pulled into his wife’s arms as Jack is frozen in inaction and falling slightly to the side.
    The inability of any theory other than the preposterous “magic bullet theory” to explain the lack of penetration observed with the back wound bullet and the small size of the throat wound would , making it difficult to be an entrance wound and impossible to be an exit wound favours the explanation of the dart theory and a bullet fragment causing the back wound. The inexperienced, doctors under great external pressure would have been looking for a wound with the associated damage that would have been caused by a whole bullet and none would have heard of the Flechette weapon .
    The back wound bullet travelling downwards if it did suddenly deflect and exit the throat so cleanly , without significantly damaging the tie is unlikely to hit Connelly also, from its upwards trajectory.
    As Mr Holmes would say when you have eliminated the impossible , the magic bullet is one impossible, there was only 3 bullets is the second impossible, another solution to the small non exiting back wound , and the small throat wound is another impossible, that Kennedy would have not thrown himself to the floor of the car after the being hit in the back is another impossible, that Kennedy made not a sound on that day is another impossible, when Connelly is yelling blue murder.
    Did the Jews and the CIA do it , we will never know but it surely was not Oswald.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  80. More on Oliver Stone, taken from the excellent “Final Judgment” by Michael Collins Piper.

    THE MOSSAD CONNECTION
    David Ben-Gurion – Prime Minister of Israel; resigned his post in disgust with JFK’s stance toward Israel. in April of 1963; Said JFK’s position threatened Israel’s very survival.
    Yitzhak Shamir – A long-time Mossad officer (based largely at the Mossad’s chief European office in Paris), Shamir headed the Mossad’s assassination squad at the time of the JFK assassination. A former French intelligence officer has charged that Shamir himself arranged the hiring of JFK’s actual assassins through a close ally in French intelligence.
    Menachem Begin – In 1963, Begin (later prime minister of Israel) was a roving Israeli diplomat; prior to JFK’s assassination he was overheard conspiring with Meyer Lansky’s California henchman, Mickey Cohen, in a conversation that suggested hostile intentions by Israel against the American president.
    Luis Kutner – Although known largely as a “mob lawyer,” (who was long and closely associated with Jack Ruby, a sometime-client) Kutner also doubled as an international intelligence operative and functioned as an advisor to an ad hoc pro-Israel lobby group in the United States.
    A. L. Botnick – Head of the New Orleans office of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of B’nai B’rith, an intelligence and propaganda arm for Israel’s Mossad; a close associate of New Orleans-based CIA contract operative Guy Banister who helped create Lee Harvey Oswald’s preassassination profile as a “pro-Castro” agitator. Evidence suggests that Banister’s manipulation of Oswald may have been carried out under the guise of an ADL “fact-finding” operation.
    Arnon Milchan – Israel’s biggest arms dealer, Milchan was “executive producer” (i.e. chief financial angel) of Oliver Stone’s Hollywood fantasy about the JFK assassination-a fact which may explain Stone’s aversion to exploring the Israeli connection to the affair.
    Maurice Tempeisman – The international diamond merchant and Mossad operative who became the lover of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and used his connections to double-perhaps triple-her substantial fortune, thereby co-opting the Kennedy family forever.

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Assassinations_page/Israel%27s_Central_Role_FJ.html

    • Agree: Durruti
    • Replies: @Desert Fox
  81. Sparkon says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    It makes sense to me that an order was given to the various independent snipers that Kennedy was to be shot at the precise moment when the presidential limousine drew level with the man holding an open umbrella.

    Why not just use the Stemmons freeway sign, or some other physical landmarks in Dealey Plaza to delineate the kill zone, rather than some doofus with an umbrella who might draw the attention of the authorities, and be hauled in for questioning?

    Why would the snipers need a signal to begin shooting anyway, when they themselves could see their target entering the predetermined kill zone? Does the hunter need a signal that this the buck, or a matador a signal that this is the bull? Killing JFK within that kill zone ensured that the patsy could be framed, so there was no need for any signal for the assassins to know when to begin firing. If a signal was really needed, the first shot would have done it.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Daniel Rich
    , @NoseytheDuke
  82. @Dumbo

    They are pretty terrible movies, both in quality and message. There are definitely several scenes that are so bad they’re funny. But the insane thing is that hundreds, possibly thousands worked on them, they had huge budgets, and were praised to the skies at awards ceremonies with thousands of cheering celebrities. The media covering them was entirely supportive, again large organizations employing thousands of people. Other than a few grassroots conservative publications, no one pointed out how viciously hateful they were.

    Unlike the anti-white Twitterverse, no one can claim that these are just a few loonies in an echo chamber. The entire industry supports these movies and all of the countless subtler anti-white movies they pump out. Never do they criticize something for going too far, only for not going far enough. And unlike academia, which is just as bad, these movies are aimed squarely at the public at large.

    I think these movies are the clearest evidence to the Average Joe that there’s a large faction of rabid anti-whites running the show.

  83. @Laurent Guyenot

    I also heard of the supposed invitation of Lindbergh but didn’t believe it because I thought it was nonsense. Wow! Former ex military that I have known were also partial to the idea that Israel and the Jewish lobby played a role in his assassination. Supposedly, Kennedy basically insulted someone from one of the Jewish Groups and they didn’t take kindly to it because he was adamant that these groups would register as foreign agents. Fullbright who publicly denounced Israel and their control of the US Congress on National TV and the fact that Kennedy wanted him as Secretary of State must have also riled the Jews. Fullbright was also against the Vietnam War.

    If you look at what’s happening to Trump right now with this Ukraine nonsense all the witnesses are Jews. From Epstein to Trump and so forth this shows that Israel and the Jews will do anything for control of the world and makes their possible input into the Kennedy’s death more plausible.

  84. @follyofwar

    “Given the decades long national trauma, from which the country has never recovered, it would have been far better if Nixon had won.”

    There is more than anecdotal evidence to suggest that Nixon SHOULD have won. C.f., “Chicago”, “Mayor Daley” etc. If Nixon had won then maybe there wouldn’t have been a Watergate. Who knows? And, no, this country never recovered. Indeed, 11/22/1963 was the beginning of the slow, steady unraveling of American society which continues apace.

  85. @S

    Relatedly, within Freemasonry there seems to be a strong ‘killing the king’ motif at work

    This reminds me of the murder of Tsar Nicholas. It had very strong ritualistic overtones.

    https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/07/18/the-brutal-murder-of-tsar-nicholas-ii-and-his-family/

    • Agree: S
    • Replies: @Germanicus
  86. @Germanicus

    Joan Mellens book Blood in the Water about the attack on the USS Liberty gives ample evidence that Israel had JFK assassinated.

  87. Why would the umbrella “heckle” JFK? It would have reminded him of a position his father had taken that he still thought was correct. Would you be heckled by a reminder of something you did and still thought was right, even though others managed to defeat it?

  88. The Abraham Zapruder heirs did not need an umbrella, when in 1999, the US government rained down $16 million for the film.

    Fyi, according to Dishonest Abe’s granddaughter’s book, instead of forking over the film to either Dallas cops or FBI, he made a copy and gave the Secret Service custody of the original.😈

    Please reference report,🤑linked below?

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-aug-04-mn-62521-story.html

  89. As the Rolling Stones sang,

    I shouted out, Who killed the Kennedys
    When after all, it was you and me

    Mick, you need to revise this to, “After all, it wasn’t you and me.”

    It was the Jews. First Christ, then JFK. Next, the US of A.

    • Agree: Durruti
  90. The obvious question I’ve never seen addressed is “Assuming he had no role in the assassination, why was he the one person with an open umbrella under a clear sky?”

  91. @HoekomSA

    YES.

    No the murder of kennedy was not just about getting rid of him. It was a highly symbolic , even ritualistic act.
    It showed ultimately the power of the conspirators. It showed the impotence of the public.

    Kennedy was not so much assassinated as publicly executed, in case anyone else got any fancy ideas about reining in Jewish power.

    • Agree: Republic
    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Republic
    , @Durruti
  92. @aandrews

    I immediately understood your post to mean what you say in your extended explanation. Infuriating and difficult to read, in a way that is in fact complimentary to the author’s success in exposing the corruption in our nation.

  93. Ron Unz says:

    Well, I’ll admit I’ve never looked into this “Umbrella Man” issue, nor have more than glanced over this long comment-thread. But frankly, I’m pretty skeptical of this particular “conspiracy analysis.”

    It’s important to remember the public issues of the early 1960s, especially with regard to JFK. A very large one was that rightwingers widely regarded JFK as “soft on Communism,” especially after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. Put another way, they accused him of “appeasing the Communists” much like Neville Chamberlain and Joseph Kennedy had been vilified by the MSM for “appeasing Hitler.”

    So it seems perfectly plausible to me that some Texas rightwinger who felt that way might have gone to the scene displaying an umbrella as a symbol of Munich-style appeasement, though this time towards Communism. Maybe a little eccentric, but that seems vastly more plausible than e.g. the Umbrella guy being a shot-signaler for the JFK snipers. Why would professional snipers need a signaler? And for him to have been working with the assassins in providing some mystical/symbolic attack on JFK seems totally ridiculous.

    And for those interested in my own analysis of the JFK Assassination itself, here are the links to a couple of articles I published last year:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-i-what-happened/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/

  94. @NobodyKnowsImADog

    The execution of the German government by the allies was also a ritual mass murder.
    Officially they hanged them, but inside the duct, there were blades installed that slit their throats when falling and they bled out.

    • Replies: @NobodyKnowsImADog
  95. This “sins of the father” concept has been put to good use in the civil rights movement, entirely at the hands of the usual suspects. What is affirmative action and reparations but a punishment to be given to white people for what their ancestors did? This, by the way, is indeed an entirely Jewish concept, and fits with their belief in their vengeful tribal god.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  96. Ted Heath says:
    @NobodyKnowsImADog

    Agree about our nations run by psychopaths.
    But the problem with this article is that is it too convoluted and based on a fairy story about a fictitious god.
    Read The Theory of Creativity which was a scientific theory published in 1995 that disproves the god concept and replaces it with an intelligent ether made up of all the souls of all time. Using Newton and Quantum Theory Ron Pearson proves scientifically there is no Yahway or any other supreme being…essentially he proves we are all part of god.
    Anyway it was the Fed that killed JFK when he started to issue government issue interest free currency based on silver. And who runs the Fed? The Rothschild family bank owns one third, the other two thirds are owned by two other banks.
    The CIA is run by Rothschild to operate and control his drug dealings world wide that was at one time run by MI6 and the British Empire. And who ran MI6? Victor Rothschild. Funny how these Rothschilds run everything. They bought Jerusalem off the Ottoman Empire in 1829 just in case you were wondering who actually runs Israel. Netanyahu is just a sock puppet. The Queen of England is another Rothschild sock puppet too!

  97. anon[157] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    But the opposition party, Labour, was even keener on appeasement than he was.

    Labour were the ‘peace” Party during the 1930s, and opposed rearmament, because it was riddled with Soviet spies.

  98. Gizmo880 says:

    There might not be a better introduction to the Kennedy Assasination than this documentary, “The Men Who Killed Kennedy’. I would estimate it’s accuracy at around 90%.

  99. Joseph Kennedy was right. The “Jews” did win the war, but they did so along with the US and UK Masonic establishments. It likely all came down to their power through money and influence. Kennedy was a Catholic and after the success of the communist revolution in Russia and the spread throughout the 1920’s, the RC Church and nations like Germany were besieged by the movement everywhere. It was mostly spawned by the Anglo Masonic and Zionist cabal which went on to “win” WWII.

    Fascism in Italy, Spain and Germany was a direct reaction to the threat of communism. Mussolini in the 1920’s nipped it in the bud, but it continued to spread and the source was the same. By the time of the 1932 election in Germany, a number of Germany cities had voted in communist governments. The threat to freedom of religion was very real based on what had happened in Russia. Whether the communist ideology was based on Marx, Lenin or Stalin in that nation, Christians in particular were severely persecuted. When the Christian Democrats in Germany in that election failed to win a majority, coming in third behind the communists and the Nazis, then in many places in the following 1933 election, the churches threw their weight behind Hitler in order to keep the communists from taking over. Like in the US today, it was a matter of the lesser of evils.

    When the war ended with Germany, the USSR which had been supplied and supported by the US throughout the war, continued to occupy the eastern European nations with the consent of the US and the UK. These were nations with relatively large Catholic and Protestant populations and the people of those religions were severely persecuted by the communists regimes. (You can read about what they did to Jewish convert and Lutheran pastor, Richard Wurmbrand, in order to get an idea of the severity.) When the US army took possession of Rome in June 1944, in effect it was huge victory over the RC Church for the Masons. At least since 1958 the ame cabal has been extremely influential in determining Church polices, and controlling Church finances, and it is from then on that the Vatican has been used to push the so-called “new world order”. From my observations over the years, based on of the various deconstruction polices at work in the Church, it is clear that the Vatican is essentially a Masonic/Zionist instrument. The same forces are presently working to deconstruct out nations for their new order.

    The deep state in the US is made up of a number of factions, which are always at each other’s throats. Oligarchic families have largely made their initial fortunes outside of the law, or if not then in any case they all believe they are above the law. The “made” Italian, Irish, and Jewish crime families and dons, all throughout North America are controlled by establishment oligarchs and government agencies. Vices are legalised mainly for profit and to give more legitimacy to the money flows. Huge power struggles go on behind the scenes where despite the information on the independent internet we know little about. The entire system is rotten to the core.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @PeterMX
  100. Leon says:
    @aandrews

    There was nothing difficult to read here unless you have a 6th grade education.

  101. @aandrews

    My apologies to you, I misunderstood your comment.

  102. @Ron Unz

    Ron Unz asked: “Why would professional snipers need a signaler?”

    Hi Ron!

    Hm. Re, above; Maybe Lee Harvey Oswald wasn’t considered to be that much of a professional sniper? And having a competent “signaler” helped?🤔

    The JFK hit blew by the Warren Commission, along with it’s professional investigation team & ambitious attorney, Arlen Specter, & to date, the “rush to judgement” sticks.

    Thank you, Ron.

  103. @peterAUS

    Gerald Posner? LOL! Got any input to add from Bart Simpson while you’re on a roll?

    • Replies: @Stonehands
    , @Sean
  104. Iris says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    a declaration [..] that had the effect of connecting in the public psyche JFK’s public assassination [..] to Jewish vengeance?

    Thanks for yet another first-class article, and thanks even more for bringing up President Kennedy’s memory on the day anniversary of his cruel and untimely passing.

    It is very credible that the Chamberlain symbol story was retrospectively deliberately devised to taunt and threaten the Kennedy family and their supporters, and remind them of Jewish vengeance.

    But “Umbrella Man” cannot be dissociated from another suspicious character, “Signal Man”, also called “Dark Complected Man”, who was standing close to him at all times and was filmed raising his arm while the presidential limousine was approaching.

    In Frame 226 of the Zapruder Film, the arm of Dark Complected Man can be seen up with its fist closed, which in military hand signs means “hold” or “stop”.

    There were many testimonies that JFK’s limousine came to a total halt for many seconds for the final, murderous headshots; his driver was part of the conspiracy.

    What is even more unbelievable and strikingly odd is “Umbrella Man” and “Dark Complected Man” sat next to each other, on the curb, seconds after the shooting, while everybody else is taking shelter from the shooter at the Grassy Knoll.

    Of course, these were not gay lovers comforting each other, but two perpetrators probably sharing the same walkie-talkie. A walkie-talkie whose shape could be guessed in the right hand of “Dark Complected Man”:

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  105. refl says:
    @Jefferson Temple

    To the question why US government agents would facilitate the cover up, you find the straight answer in Michael Collins Pipers book. They had themselves organized their own action, likely a fake assasination attempt to be blamed on Cuba (that would have been Oswalds part), and they had seriously let down the defenses of the president when the assasination went real.

    Many people had to be afraid of being held to account, so the necessary officials to order the cover up were easily persuaded. Also note, that Johnson was certainly in on the plot. He would order any serious investigation to be derailed.

    • Replies: @Jefferson Temple
  106. @Sparkon

    Why not just use the Stemmons freeway sign, or some other physical landmarks in Dealey Plaza to delineate the kill zone, rather than some doofus with an umbrella who might draw the attention of the authorities, and be hauled in for questioning?

    A marksman doesn’t operate alone. He’s assisted by a spotter and [when needed, in combat situations. fe] a 3rd man for general protection. So, we have at least two, 2-men teams [at a minimum]. 1 team [of 2 men] was spotted on the Grassy Knoll, behind a picket fence, and at the spot the bullet had to be fired from, to make JFK’s head slam back and to the left.

    Then triangulate the target and fire.

    Am not saying umbrella man did give a signal, but logically, the opening of fire had to be synchronized to have maximum effect.

    The driver not hitting the pedal to the metal when the first shot/s rang out remains a mystery to me, because the man actually slows down the limo and then JFK’s brain is blown to smithereens.

    • Agree: LondonBob
  107. @Sparkon

    Good questions. I would suggest that there were multiple shooters in multiple locations and all were completely unaware of each other.

    Why not just use the Stemmons freeway sign, or some other physical landmarks in Dealey Plaza to delineate the kill zone, rather than some doofus with an umbrella who might draw the attention of the authorities, and be hauled in for questioning?

    Using the freeway sign or any other fixed and inanimate object would mean that each shooter would have to be contacted separately should the hit need to be called off for any reason. That person would thus know far too much and pose a high risk of exposing the plotters if caught. The stakes were high indeed!

    The umbrella man would know nothing more than where to stand and when to open his umbrella so that him being called in for questioning would reveal nothing.

    Killing JFK within that kill zone ensured that the patsy could be framed, so there was no need for any signal for the assassins to know when to begin firing.

    As I stated, the justification for attempting to synchronise the shots is so that they can all be blamed on just one “crazed” patsy later.

    If a signal was really needed, the first shot would have done it.

    Snipers need plenty of time and the exact range to take the kill shot.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyenot
  108. Iris says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    It makes sense to me that an order was given to the various independent snipers that Kennedy was to be shot at the precise moment when the presidential limousine drew level with the man holding an open umbrella,

    Completely agree, dear Nosey, with just a quibble.

    The men who shot President Kennedy were hired guns, hit men from the Chicago mob. Their job was, always is, to shoot the “target” in the head.

    There was at least 3 of them in action, positioned to create a triangulated crossfire.

    However, the intention was from the onset to blame it on the patsy Oswald, so it was very important that the headshot to JFK was taken from behind. The best shooter was positioned behind the limousine, in the Dal-Tex building, and was in charge with taking the head shot.

    When he failed to hit President Kennedy at the head, Plan B was put in action and a headshot taken from the Grassy Knoll.

    So the presence of Umbrella Man and Dark Complected Man next to the limit where a successful headshot from behind becomes unlikely is very easy to understand:

    – Umbrella Man is close from the limousine. He sees that the President’s head is intact and opens his umbrella to tell the Grassy Knoll sniper to shoot.

    – His accomplice , Dark Complected Man, raises his arm with a closed fist, a military sign telling JFK/s driver to stop the limousine to facilitate the execution. This stop of many seconds was recounted by the witnesses present.

    It is so simple and logical. People just don’t want to accept the idea because it implies that there was a vast conspiracy with a large number of people involved.

    • Replies: @Jake
    , @Skeptikal
  109. refl says:
    @lysias

    The movie is a limited hangout made to ensure that those who cannot swallow the obvious lies of the Warren Commission will direct their anger otherwise than at Israel.

    That observation is just as valid for the largest part of the yearly anniversary articles on the Kennedy assasination: Take the time and scan the articles on your favorite sites, how many of them only just mention Voldemort country in that context. If only just to refute the idea or to proclaim that only sickos believe it. It cannot have past by the numerous authors over the years that that theory at least exists.
    Instead, you are treated to a steady stream of philosophizing on the deep state, Vietnam, the CIA and the like. Take note and evaluate your reading matter.

  110. PeterMX says:
    @Ron Unz

    I remember my father made a comment long after JFK’s asssassination in which he felt JFK was soft on communism. He also felt Khruschev was a tougher and smarter negotiator. It was only a few sentences, but not everyone loved JFK. But being German, I think he might have had a soft spot for JFK, if we knew then what we know now, with his diaries published. Of course, today’s Germans no longer think like that. I do not recall any discussion of JFK’s father’s views on WW II. That was kept quiet and the media did not make it a public issue. Those were pre “Holocaust Industry” days in which according to Norman Finkelstein, Jews became bolder and [even] more outspoken with Israel being perceived as a valuable ally after winning the 1967 war. This, according to Finkelstein.

    I recall JFK being very popular, well liked and people thought “Jackie” was beautiful and thought they had a beautiful family. I think they were also perceived as having “class”, probably because that is what the media said. I think it was after his assassination that the knowledge of his extramarital affairs (and Bobby’s too) became public and then Jackie married the Greek multi-millionaire Onassis. For my mother, that took all the class out of Jackie that the media always had said she had. I think they were very popular with the media. By contrast, JFK’s opponent in the 1960 election was Richard Nixon, not as good looking as JFK, remembered for his tough stance on communism and that probably made him more popular with the right and less popular with the media and the left.

    It would be interesting how this would play out if JFK was still alive and his diaries became public while he was alive. I have a feeling he may have been tougher than people like my father perceived him to be and maybe he just held the views he had, but maybe not out of any weakness.

    • Replies: @utu
  111. Jake says:

    The Kennedys were knocked off with major input from Zionists. I think that almost certainly includes John Jr (if that were an accident and had been avoided, and John John had failed to get 100% behind both Liberal and Neocon Jews, then they would have killed him). But true Blue WASPs on both sides if the Atlantic also wanted the Kennedys destroyed. And the WASP hatred of Irish Catholics has been what has been most used, and used most effectively, in leading non-Catholic white Middle Americans away from recognizing the Kennedys as the most important murder victims in the march of the Deep State to make serfs of us all.

    It all goes back to the Judaizing heresy Anglo-Saxon Puritanism, most specifically to archetypal WASP Oliver Cromwell’s direct deal with Jews, opening England to be directed, and eventually owned, by Jewish bankers. There has been a Brit WASP Deep State since at least the Restoration of the monarchy, and it revealed its total power no later than the ‘Glorious Revolution.’ And the Brit WASP Deep State then was tied inextricably to Jewish bankers.

    It is almost as if you either must play nice and fair, respectfully and equally, with Celts and white Catholics or else get made a serf by a Jewish-owned WASP Deep State.

  112. Not convincing.

    Of course, I know the speculation it was Israelis who were behind it (Dimona), but I don’t find it persuasive. There are other means to avoid US inspection, and Kennedy was not adamant about it at all. These are things politicians toy with all the time, and while not a “friend” of Israel, Kennedy was not an enemy- one could consider Eisenhower, if we judge him by his actions during Suez canal crisis- to be an “enemy” of Israel (of course this too is simplistic, politics is a rough business).

    To illustrate the “rough” side of politics, let’s see the following. Let’s see Henry Kissinger, with his publicly suppressed answer to Nixon re Soviet Jews:

    Just- they deleted Kissinger’s original statement, which can be seen in this leftist guy’s clip (comedienne Sarah Silverman reads Kissinger’s words, at 2:06):

    “The emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union is not an objective of American foreign policy. And if they put Jews into gas chambers in the Soviet Union, it is not an American concern. Maybe a humanitarian concern.”

    Maybe..maaaybe…maaaybe...

    This remark can be read only in the papers, because “it was taken out of context.

    Taken “out of context”? I say:

    So, it can be read only in 2-3 places, and not seen in a video…

    https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Kissinger-urges-gas-chamber-remark-be-taken-in-context

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8227173/Henry-Kissinger-apologises-for-gas-chamber-comment.html

    What Kissinger has got to do with JFK?

    Nothing, I just wanted to point that media manipulations have no limits; that American Jews are not nearly as monolithic; that one should be aware that talk or statements are not something too reliable; that one can construct from scratches a huge conspiracy.

    Who says that Witt was actually the “umbrella man”? Why was he identified only 15 years after the event? And even if he was that man- what kind of silly gesture would it be, because who in his right mind would think that JFK would have noticed anyone in this situation & mentally process this like: umbrella > Chamberlain > my dad > huh, I’m guilty….

    JFK had, I think, a Jewish mistress whom he intended to marry (prior to his marriage) & was dissuaded by his family; he was not anti-Jewish; Israel, as virtually all American Jews, was horrified by his assassination, which can be seen from Golda Meir’s behavior (she seems to have thought that JFK assassination was a right-wing coup):

    https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-golda-meir-had-doubts-on-kennedy-death-1.5292291

    Anyway, tallying coincidences one can construct incredibly absurd theories:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Kennedy_coincidences_urban_legend

    Lincoln–Kennedy coincidences urban legend

    These coincidences leave anything Jewish in the JFK case (Witt?; Zapruder, Ruby) in the dust.

    Having that in mind, I am not persuaded.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Daniel Rich
    , @refl
    , @renfro
  113. Jake says:
    @Iris

    “People just don’t want to accept the idea because it implies that there was a vast conspiracy with a large number of people involved.”

    The primary reason for that is for such a large conspiracy to be tried, much of the WASP establishment had to have been on board, and most of the rest had to have been known to being the type easily coerced afterwards to remain silent.

    It took WASPs and Zionists to plan it and execute and cover it up, and then spread endless propaganda, including playing hard on WASP hatreds of Irish Catholics to keep culturally conservative and/or anti-imperialist Protestant Middle Americans from looking at the evidence of cover up.

    • Replies: @Iris
  114. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’m pretty skeptical of this particular “conspiracy analysis.” – This is about symbolism, about semiotic signaling in language that is foreign to a rational person like yourself. Your doubts and objections stem from the default assumption that actions occur at minimum cost and risk so why to increase the cost and risk by introducing additional actors to send some esoteric message to recipients that you doubt that even exist? But what if the artist is so skillful and masterful that w/o sacrificing his masterwork and its completion he can afford to insert additional meta level messages perhaps for his peers that will get it. No artist wants to remain anonymous. And perhaps a killing of a president is not that challenging so there is plenty of room for an extra play with little added cost and risk. And perhaps it is peppering up the scene of crime with false leads that surely will be picked up by wackos to enrich the chaos of conspiracy theories was the purpose. Anyway, the Umbrella Man after his disclosure why he was there neatly lead us to those whom Jews fear and hate in America, people like Joseph Kennedy, Charles Lindbergh, James Forrestal…and, well, JFK. And they still can’t get over it vide the 1997 Philip Roth novel The Plot Against America.

    • Replies: @AB_Anonymous
  115. PeterMX says:
    @Fred Baggins

    I suspect that it was Jewish influence which made the capitalists and communists alllies. They played a leading role in the USSR, Great Britain and the USA, and they are the only ones that could see the benefit of these otherwise ideological enemies being allies. Except for the USA (separated from the fighting by two oceans), no one else benefitted from WW II. If Winston Churchill had been more concerned about his beloved empire than his own reputation and had not accepted bribes from wealthy Jews when he was in financial need, Europe and Great Britain would still be great. They would still lead the world. And Jews would have a fraction of the power they have today. Yes, Jews won that war and were its major beneficiaries, despite being told the direct opposite. They made it into a world war and they brought the suffering to all Europe, but particularly to their German enemy, and themselves.

  116. @Emblematic

    Robert David Steele’s Blog review of ” Tavistock Institute : Social Engineering the masses ” by Daniel Estulin – “The deep state playbook ” :
    “Although I have read and heard over the years of CIA and KGB Freemasons collaborating in betrayal of their countries and organizations by order of the Freemasons … we have to deal with the fact that the President and everyone of consequence in Congress , Justice and the FBI is a high ranking Freemason . ”

    “Sir Knight Earl Warren ” By Sir Knight Dr. Ivan M. Tribe (Knightstemplar.org ):
    “In 1938 he( Earl Warren ) served as Master of Rose Croix …and in 1945 presiding office of the Lodge of Perfection . By that time he had already been coroneted with the 33rd degree…”

    Gerald McKnight ” Breach of Trust : How the Warren Commission failed the Nation and Why ” :
    “The records of the Commission disclose that the commission’s pre-structured task was to support the FBI’s conclusions : Oswald was the assassin and that he acted alone .”

    • Agree: Desert Fox
  117. utu says:
    @PeterMX

    “…and then Jackie married the Greek multi-millionaire Onassis…” – The then was after RFK’s assassination:

    “If they’re killing Kennedys, then my children are targets … I want to get out of this country”

    So the deal was to offer some safety but you are correct that her marriage to Onassiss “took all the class out of Jackie that the media always had said she had.” But this was the price which the forces that pushed her in this direction wanted her to pay to diminish and tarnish the legend of JFK. The safety was not coming form the wealth of Onassis but from the tarnished image and marginalization by marrying the rich Greek creep.

  118. Mr. Guyenot, I respect and enjoy your work. Just read “From Yahweh to Zion”, and I recommend it highly whenever appropriate, in both comments and word of mouth.

    For the readers here I recommend 2 books that have some relation to the subject here: Dr. Mary’s Monkey by Haslam, and Mary’s Mosaic by Janney. Reading either or both will add dimension to one’s knowledge of the JFK puzzle, which like 911 is slowly being pieced together.
    Another motive for Kennedy’s assasination was his issueing the silver certificates. I don’t think much has been written of this angle. But people, especially leaders of nations, who go against the Central Banks end up very dead. Lincoln, Kennedy, S. Hussein, Mummar Qadhaffi and others.

  119. Iris says:
    @Jake

    The primary reason for that is for such a large conspiracy to be tried, much of the WASP establishment had to have been on board

    It was much simpler than that: JFK’s assassination was a criminal Zionist conspiracy within a more benign WASP conspiracy.

    A secret mission was organised by the loyal Security apparatus to abort an assassination attempt against President Kennedy at Dallas.

    The abort mission would have resulted in unmasking and arresting criminal elements within the establishment. Oswald the patsy was part of the abort mission, as was Agent Bouck, the head of the WH Secret Service. And Robert Kennedy was involved too.

    But more powerful parties within the Zionist Deep State were at play: they took control of the situation and turned it into a real assassination, killing two birds with one stone:

    – They executed the independent and principled President who stood up to them.
    – They compromised the WASP establishment, including RFK, with the murky and failed abort mission that was turned into a real assassination, making their responsibility undistinguishable.

    It is very, very simple. Truth always is.

  120. utu says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    “…and Kennedy was not adamant about it at all…” – No, he was adamant to the point that Ben-Gurion stepped down.

    When Ben-Gurion said no to JFK
    https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/When-Ben-Gurion-said-no-to-JFK

    Finally, Kennedy had enough, and in a personal letter dated May 18, 1963, the president warned that unless American inspectors were allowed into Dimona (meaning the end of any military activities), Israel would find itself totally isolated. Rather than answering, Ben-Gurion abruptly resigned.

    Ben-Gurion’s successor, Levi Eshkol received Kennedy’s next letter, which upped the pressure, warning that the American commitment and support of Israel “could be seriously jeopardized.”

    Read the letters. Some of them are here:

    The Battle of the Letters, 1963: John F. Kennedy, David Ben-Gurion, Levi Eshkol, and the U.S. Inspections of Dimona
    https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2019-05-02/battle-letters-1963-john-f-kennedy-david-ben-gurion-levi-eshkol-us-inspections-dimona

    And then there was RFK as Attorney General demanding Israel lobbyist to be registered as foreign lobbyist and how it was undone after RFK was forced to resign by LBJ year or so later after JFK assassination.

    http://www.israellobby.org/azcdoj/
    “Judge Rifkind then made a plea for no registration, stating it was the opinion of most of the persons affiliated with the Council that such registration would be so publicized by the American Council on Judaism that it would eventually destroy the Zionist movement…he did not believe his clients would file any papers or sign any papers indicating that the organization was an agent of a foreign principal. I told him that any such information or material that is supplied on that basis would be made part of the Department’s public files available for inspection by the public…”

    In DOJ internal memo on 4/30/1964 before replacing RFK as AG with Nicholas Katzenbach the following was stated: “This is the most blatant stall we have encountered. Do you mind suggesting what we do next because all of us here would call their records before a grand jury.” RFK resigns as AG in September 1964. When Katzenbach became acting AG and then AG exchanges between Jewish lobby and DOJ continued but no action was taken by DOJ. Eventually on n 11/27/1967, four years and five days after JFK’s death AIPAC applies for a federal tax exemption. The lobby has won.

    • Agree: renfro
  121. dimples says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    Perhaps you’re overthinking the whole thing. Les intellectuelles Francais have a habit of doing that. Perhaps the CIA bugmen did the umbrella thing to inculpate the Jews. Who knows?

  122. roonaldo says:

    The Warren Commission hogwash was almost as ridiculous as the official 911 nonsense, and Mark Lane’s 1966 book “Rush to Judgment” helped fuel broad public disbelief in the official story.

    Talk about quid pro quo to the nth degree, as that hideous snake LBJ gave the MIC and its financiers their wars, etc., in exchange for the Presidency and for keeping his sorry ass out of jail for the Billy Sol Estes and Bobby Baker scandals. Sure, the Israelis benefitted, and were likely a cog in the conspiratorial wheel, but the CIA, Secret Service, and various military agents were the movers and shakers, with LBJ their guarantor.

    Much of the conspiratorial framework is exposed in David Lifton’s absolutely must-read book “Best Evidence” which clearly shows that the body was altered before autopsy in an attempt to make the physical evidence conform to the Oswald-as-shooter narrative. The conspirators left a wide trail of evidence that only the highest-level actors could suppress, as in the 911 crimes.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski, bluedog
  123. refl says:
    @Iris

    There were many testimonies that JFK’s limousine came to a total halt for many seconds for the final, murderous headshots

    There is another film of the assasination, taken from the distance across the Plaza (maybe, someone can link it? It must have been in the comment section of some earlier article). That film clearly shows, how the police motorcycles continue while the limosine falls back and nearly comes to a hold. If the driver had done his job he would have speeded of at the first second of realizing something was going on. These people are trained for nothing else but exactly such situations. The driver and several other people around the president must have been in on the plot to varying degrees.
    Comparing that film with the Zapruder film also shows that the Zapruder film was severly tempered with before release – anyone believes that Oliver Stone and his team as Hollywood professionals who based their plot on that film didn’t realize that?

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @Iris
  124. Icy Blast says:
    @Sean

    Ultimately the truth will come to light. Obviously millions of people don’t want to know the truth.

  125. supergoy says:

    In Robert Caro’s biography of Lyndon Johnson, he mentions that when LBJ was running against Kennedy for the Democrat nomination in 1960 he attacked Kennedy for his father’s appeasement, saying “I was never a Chamberlain umbrella man.”

  126. Skeptikal says:
    @aandrews

    Very logical and easy to follow.
    Perhaps a challenge to those still working their way through Dick and Jane.

    And, extremely interesting and thought-provoking dot connecting.

  127. supergoy says:

    Weakness, Johnson had seen in three decades in Washington, was never rewarded. When he said of Vietnam, “We’re not going to have any men with any umbrellas,” a pointed reference to the hapless Chamberlain, the message was clear: America would stand up to Ho Chi Minh and the Vietcong in a way that Chamberlain had not stood up to Hitler and the Nazi regime.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/24/opinion/lyndon-johnsons-vietnam.html

  128. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    So it seems perfectly plausible to me that some Texas rightwinger who felt that way might have gone to the scene displaying an umbrella as a symbol of Munich-style appeasement, though this time towards Communism.

    The whole appeasement thing is bunk.

    Chamberlain surely didn’t give a damn about appeasing Hitler, except as a manipulative stratagem.

    But for Britain, in the late thirties, going to war with Germany would have been insane. Britain had at most four, and possibly only two, deployable army divisions versus Germany’s 40 plus. The threat posed by a rapidly rearming and aggressive Germany was thus best dealt with by bringing Germany into confrontation with Russia.

    By sacrificing Czechoslovakia to Germany, Chamberlain greatly added to Hitler’s military resources, which were then far smaller than Russia’s.

    Encouraging Polish obduracy in the matter of Danzig, brought German forces directly to the Russian frontier. Then it was a matter of waiting for these old adversaries to clash in accordance with the plan von Ribbentrop had shown Winston Churchill during a visit to England in 1937. (Asked by Ribbentrop what he thought of the plan for German Eastward expansion, Churchill is said to have replied “We don’t like the Russians, but we don’t hate them that much.”)

    Meantime, the British economy had been placed on a war footing, and was turning out more military aircraft than Germany.

    Once the struggle between Germany and Russia had begun, Britain’s only major concerns were to protect her overseas possession, particularly the ME oil fields, which she did successfully, and to prepare a backstop with massive American participation (Operation Overlord), on the Western front for the time when a greatly weakened victor of the Russso-German conflict was in a position to turn West with a view to crushing Britain and achieving a trans-European empire.

  129. CanSpeccy says:
    @utu

    If Israel assassinated JFK, who assassinated RFK and John, Jr.?

    • Replies: @lysias
    , @utu
    , @Wizard of Oz
  130. Skeptikal says:
    @Iris

    Not wanting to quibble either, but . . .
    re “The men who shot President Kennedy were hired guns, hit men from the Chicago mob. Their job was, always is, to shoot the “target” in the head.”

    I thought it had been rather well established that a sharpshooter had been brought in from the French/Corsican mob.

    Also, did Umbrella man actually open the umbrella just before or at the moment of the shots?

    • Replies: @Iris
  131. lysias says:
    @the grand wazoo

    Jews were already prominent then in the financial establishment and in the Federal Reserve, and since then have become much more prominent, even dominant.

  132. lysias says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Isn’t it significant that the patsy set up to take the blame for the RFK assassination was a Palestinian?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Durruti
  133. Skeptikal says:
    @Sean

    “It is very sad to see Unz publish an article like this.”

    Oh, sob sob,
    Concern troll.

    You know perfectly well that Ron Unz publishes LOTS of articles like this.
    Presumably that is why you visit this site—to read just those articles that one cannot find elsewhere—and then to act the concern troll!

    Just go back to your TV.

  134. @Bardon Kaldian

    Israel, as virtually all American Jews, was horrified by his assassination…

    Yes, the tears shed for the 34 killed and 171 wounded on the USS Liberty took my breath away…

    The unbridled compassion couldn’t be described with mere mortal words…

  135. @Hapalong Cassidy

    “a punishment to be given to white people for what their ancestors did?…..is indeed an entirely Jewish concept, and fits with their belief in their vengeful tribal god.”

    Just so. And don’t forget “Never forget” and it’s tacit corollary “never forgive”.

    Whereas the rest of Europe has buried the hatchet; Frenchmen no longer feeling rage against the grandchildren of the Nazis, the Jews alone refuse to join the rest of the human race, preferring instead to hang on to their grievances in perpetuity. Aggrieved wrath simmering for revenge is the center of gravity of Judaism.

  136. Anonymous[358] • Disclaimer says:

    This is the original version. It’ s actually 9 plus hours. This is cut to 4hours 33 minutes. Sometime during the past two years this doc has been cut and revised – and loaded back onto YT with unoriginal content.

  137. Iris says:

    I find it hard to explain that this is the same Josiah Thompson who published in 1967 a book titled Six Seconds in Dallas: a micro-study of the Kennedy assassination proving that three gunmen murdered the President, for which he studied the Zapruder film and interviewed eyewitnesses in order to come up with a plausible line of fire, and the conclusion of a conspiracy and government cover-up. What happened to Josiah in between?

    This is a great remark within an already so rich article; it introduces the concept of “Controlled Conspiracy Theory”.

    At the time (1967) Josiah Thompson published his book, much courageous research on the JFK cover-up had been produced, of which the most perilous for the perpetrators was the legal crusade undertaken by New-Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison.

    Thompson’s book concluded that the hit men were at the Texas School Book Depository, Dallas County Record and Grassy Knoll.

    Of all possible places, he managed to exonerate the DalTex Building, a building entirely owned and run by the Dallas Zionist community, in which Zapruder had his offices.

    The DalTex Building had the best, shortest and most direct line of fire to JFK’s limousine; it was the principal “sniper nest” of the conspiracy.

    The concept of “Controlled Conspiracy Theory” nicely applies to Mr Josiah Thompson.

  138. lysias says:
    @refl

    The driver of JFK’s limousine was William Greer, a Protestant from Ulster who in his youth in Northern Ireland had been a member of the Orange Order. One of the other two drivers in the presidential detail had died of an untimely heart attack shortly before Dallas.

  139. @the grand wazoo

    the grand wazoo recommended to read: “Mary’s Mosaic by Janney which will add a dimension to one’s knowledge of the JFK puzzle, which like 911 is slowly being pieced together.”

    Oh yeah, grand wazoo, read that, and my compliment to you for bringing up a vital piece ‘o Peter Janney’s mosaic.

    Fyi, previously, a commenter here mentioned JFK’s “Jewish Mistress,” but even Laurent Guyenot seems to avoid putting pieces together, along with an insight into the late-Mary Pinchot Myers brutal slaying on a walking trail canal. 🤔

    Murdered about a year after JFK’s death, case unsolved, and a spooky CIA in charge of Counterintelligence, James Jesus Angleton, broke into Mary’s house, in search of her volatile diary. Angleton got caught, but of course, he was unaccountable.😈🇮🇱

    Thanks, wazoo, and an Italian carbine simply does not cut it for commenters like yooo.🤗

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  140. Hillbob says:

    Why did he approve the destabilization and eventual overthrow of the British Guiana Premier Chedddi Jagan? Why did he have the British hold back independence under Jagan? So much for his anti colonialist posturing. To all his faithful fans , find another deserving hero.

    Oh yea, he started the build up in Vietnam , but he was planning to leave Vietnam alone. Grow up jokers

  141. refl says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Israel, as virtually all American Jews, was horrified by his assassination, which can be seen from Golda Meir’s behavior

    Why shouldn’t they? I am sure that a significant section of American and Israeli Jews are horrified by the every day action of the IDF. They were horrified by the assasination of Yitzak Rabin.
    It must be horrifiing to be tied to maniacal leadership, who will sacrifice you any time in the name of the fullfillment of their sick plan. So if you are a good Christian or Muslim, Buddhist, Pastafari or whatever, pray for these poor fellows.

  142. Hillbob says:

    Why did he approve the destabilization and eventual overthrow of the British Guiana Premier Chedddi Jagan? Why did he have the British hold back independence under Jagan? So much for his anti colonialist posturing. To all his faithful fans , find another deserving hero.

    Oh yea, he started the build up in Vietnam , but he was planning to leave Vietnam alone. Grow up

  143. geokat62 says:

    Like any good gumshoe worth his salt, the first question he asks himself after arriving at the crime scene is Cui bono, who benefits?

    In the case of the JFK assassination, there was clearly one very large beneficiary that stood out above the rest, Israel.

    By Nov 1963, JFK had two big strikes against him:

    1. In 1963 President Kennedy demanded that Ben-Gurion end Israel’s nuclear deterrent program. Kennedy warned in a letter dated May 18, 1963, that unless American inspectors were allowed into Israel’s Dimona facility, Israel would find itself totally isolated. “We are concerned with the disturbing effects on world stability which would accompany the development of a nuclear weapons capability by Israel… It is because of our preoccupation with this problem that my Government has sought to arrange with you for periodic visits to Dimona.” As it turned out, his following reassurance fell on deaf ears “As I made clear in my press conference of May 8, we have a deep commitment to the security of Israel.”

    2. In 1963 President Kennedy demanded that the American Zionist Council register under FARA as a foreign agent. In a letter dated October 17, 1963 (one month before JFK’s assassination), Judge Rifkind (a representative of the AZC), responded to the Kennedy Administration’s demand: “… it was the opinion of most of the persons affiliated with the Council that such registration would be so publicized by the American Council on Judaism that it would eventually destroy the Zionist movement.

    Along with the quote by AZC Representative Judge Rifkind, here is the infamous quote by Jack Ruby’s (born Jacob Rubinstein) rabbi, Hillel Silverman:

    “I was shocked,” said Silverman. “I visited him the next day in jail, and I said, ‘Why, Jack, why?’ He said, ‘I did it for the American people.’”

    I interrupted Silverman, pointing out that other reports had Ruby saying he did it “to show that Jews had guts.” The rabbi sighed.

    “Yes, he mentioned that,” Silverman said. “But I don’t like to mention it. I think he said, ‘I did it for the Jewish people.’ But I’ve tried to wipe that statement from my mind.”

    https://forward.com/news/187793/lee-harvey-oswalds-killer-jack-ruby-came-from-stro/

    • Replies: @Durruti
  144. @refl

    Well, that is a plausible explanation, so I guess it could be so. But as soon as I had written my previous post I realized another possibility. They might have used the tried and true methods of bribing a corrupt official or else forging credentials.

  145. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    “If Israel assassinated JFK, who assassinated RFK and John, Jr.?” – That Israel did them would be a very conservative conclusion, don’t you think?

    Picking Sirhan Sirhan as a Palestinian patsy who was upset with RFK’s alleged love for Israel was a master stroke. JFK Jr. who can’t stop himself from beating around the bush of the topics of assassinations like picking Woody Harrelson (*) for the December 1996 cover of his magazine or then digging into Yitzach Rabin conspiracy and then rumors that he will run for Senate…

    (*) Charles Voyde Harrelson, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Harrelson,

    Joseph Chagra later testified during Harrelson’s trial that Harrelson claimed to have shot Kennedy and drew maps to show where he was hiding during the assassination. Chagra said that he did not believe Harrelson’s claim, and the AP reported that the FBI “apparently discounted any involvement by Harrelson in the Kennedy assassination.”[25] According to Jim Marrs in 1989’s Crossfire, Harrelson is believed to be the youngest and tallest of the “three tramps” by many conspiracy theorists.[22] Marrs stated that Harrelson was involved “with criminals connected to intelligence agencies and the military” and suggested that he was connected to Jack Ruby through Russell Douglas Matthews, a third party with links to organized crime who was known to both Harrelson and Ruby.[23] Lois Gibson, a well-known forensic artist, matched photographs of Harrelson to the photographs of the youngest-looking of the three “tramps”.

  146. Hibernian says:
    @LondonBob

    You’ve got to be kidding. I read about it, and one of my high school teachers, a very conservative guy, spoke at length about it.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  147. @bluedog

    In Sean’s case it’s all of those things you mentioned.

    • Replies: @Sean
  148. @follyofwar

    “Mr. Trump has been prevented from releasing the rest of the “top secret” files, in spite of his promise to do so.”

    IIRC, it was Trump doing all of the preventing.

  149. @Daniel Rich

    “What are he mathematical possibilities of one vegetarian filming the assassination
    of JFK and another vegetarian killing a patsy who supposedly ‘shot’ the president?”

    JFK’s assassination case is one of those cases full of “mathematical miracles”.
    One of which, for example, is the sum of all letters (as “a”=1, “b”=2, etc. ) and numbers
    in the following expression:
    “Jack Ruby, 52, a nightclub owner + Abraham Zapruder, 58, a clothing manufacturer”
    Same approach clarifies many other, otherwise questionable or irrational, details.

  150. @lysias

    Thermite is used as a cutting charge. The supporting columns were cut into sections. It doesn’t seem to me to be a “false lead” at all, just evidence unavoidably left at the site in the resultant dust.

    • Replies: @Iris
  151. @Jefferson Temple

    This “Israel did it” theory doesn’t quite answer the question of how physical evidence was destroyed and eyewitnesses intimidated by agents of the US government.

    This has been discussed in depth here in this case and the 911 case.

    The Mossad and the CIA were part of the same “team”–the CIA handled and continues to handle the ongoing domestic coverup operations as needed (including Mockingbird mass media activities).

  152. @RouterAl

    Connelly is a _very_ interesting figure, and his background prior to the day of the assassination is not very well understood.

    I was stunned to read that he was a key actor in the Korean War “setup”:

    He later became a key figure in the Nixon administration.

    Was Connelly a conspirator or a victim on the day of the assassination?

  153. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @lysias

    Isn’t it significant that the patsy set up to take the blame for the RFK assassination was a Palestinian?

    If the CIA did it, they would naturally have arranged to put the blame elsewhere. Is that not why Sirhan Sirhan remains incarcerated to this day. Given freedom, the fall guy might give the CIA a headache.

    Remember, Kennedy had just buggered up the CIA’s Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba and was threatening to pull out of the CIA’s war in Vietnam. With a nod from LBJ the CIA could kill Kennedy and be sure of top-down cover from the moment Kennedy’s heart stopped beating, cover which, according to the doctors who attended on Kennedy at Parklands Hospital, was promptly given.

    Then there’s the deathbed confession of CIA agent E. Howard Hunt, which provides a tenuous connection with Richard Nixon, who hired Hunt and Frank Sturgis (both believed to have been among the tramps arrested in Dealey Plaza in the immediate aftermath of the assassination) to. among other things, burglarize the Democratic Party headquarters at the Watergate Building in Washington, DC.

    Then there’s the role of Gerry Ford, Warren Commission re-write man, and immediate successor to Nixon as President, which raises the question: did Gerry Ford blackmailed Nixon into resignation over collusion in the JFK assassination?

  154. Lurker says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    What if it were raining and there were numerous people with umbrellas? Obviously all sorts of contingencies would be planned for but it then starts to sound clumsy.

    It also means the alleged umbrella protest only works in good weather.

    Im aware that umbrellas were associated with Chamberlain but I’ve never heard of it being the basis of protests before.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Sparkon
  155. Lurker says:
    @Dumbo

    “The boy in the stripped pajamas” is so bad it’s almost funny. Well I laughed. That’s when Holocaust movies jumped the shark.

    There was a guy on Disqus who had an account called “The joy of my stripped pyjamas”.

  156. Skeptikal says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    That’s Mary Pinchot Meyer.
    Wife of Cord Meyer, of the CIA.
    Sister-in-law of Ben Bradlee.
    Lover of JFK, to whom he confided his vision for major peaceful change in the US of A and the world.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Pinchot_Meyer

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Ron Unz
  157. Skeptikal says:
    @Jefferson Temple

    This thought also occurs to me on reading this account, plus comments.
    Maybe like Jews who didn’t go to work in the WTC on 9/11, could Zapruder have picked up something in the hallway . . . ?

    • Replies: @Jefferson Temple
  158. @NoseytheDuke

    The real conspiracy is how a less-than-honorable discharge marine waltzed into the SU during the height of the Cold War, and waltzed right back out 2yrs later with his new commie family in tow.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @John Noughty
  159. the limo stop edited out of zapruder

  160. aandrews says:
    @aandrews

    You idiots need to read my reply to NoseytheDuke.

  161. aandrews says:
    @Svevlad

    I know it’s “No Nut November” for the defenders of our people and you’re probably kinda fussy, but come December, you’ll be right as rain again:)

  162. Islander says:
    @HoekomSA

    No the murder of kennedy was not just about getting rid of him.

    It was also a message to all politicians that dare confront them and also to the bought-off politicians that worked for them :

    See what we do the most powerful man in the world. That’s why they killed him like a dog in front of the whole world.

  163. @Skeptikal

    It was a random thought, but intriguing to me

  164. renfro says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    RE: Kissinger

    Kissinger made himself quit clear more than once about Jewish influence in US policy.
    Kissinger was more German than Jew…he had the typical ‘Germanic manner ‘ .
    German Jews in general were more assimilated than the less educated and more tribal Jews of Poland, Hungary, etc.. If you look up the origins of the Fifth Column Jews in the Us most of them came thru Poland , where militant Zionism had a stronghold way before WWII.

    Kissinger….

    ”“If it were not for the accident of my birth, I would be anti-Semitic,” he once quipped, and “any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.”
    Another time, he told a friend, “I was born Jewish, but the truth is that has no significance for me. … America has given me everything.”

    On Israel….

    “On the other hand, we can not make our policy hostage to the Israelis, because our interests, while parallel in respect to that I have outlined, are not identical in overall terms. From an Israeli point of view, it is no disaster to have the whole Arab world radicalized and anti-American, because this guarantees our continued support. From an American point of view this is a disaster.”

    Jewish disloyalty……

    Kissinger also went as far as accusing American Jews of behaving traitorously for supporting the Jackson-Vanik Amendment that ruined his and Nixon’s effort on a détente agreement with Russia.

  165. @Germanicus

    I was not aware of that. Do you have any source on it? Fwiw, even with just the hangings/shootings it’s quite clearly a massacre with the barest pretense of a trial.

  166. @Ted Heath

    You complain about the article being convoluted, but your comment is worse! If you read Laurent’s book “Yahweh to Zion” you’ll see he’s under no illusions about whether he’s real or not. It’s likely the most thorough dissection of the sect you’ll ever come across. (It pairs well with Revilo Oliver’s book “The Origins of Christianity”.) The point of studying myths is that even if you know they’re not literally true, they guide the behavior of people who value those myths.

    As for the Rothschilds and the Fed role, all of that is true enough, but it’s not the whole story. This fleshes it out, and Laurent has fleshed out quite a bit more in other articles and his book which covers some of that subject.

    • Replies: @Iris
  167. Duke84 says:
    @AceDeuce

    J.Edgar Hoover was in Washington D.C. on November 22,1963.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @AceDeuce
  168. chris says:
    @Polemos

    I also find the video disturbing, the slick production whose message is: ‘nothing to see here,’ for me is a giant warning sign that they’re trying to hide something in plain sight. I think Laurent’s analysis and hypotheses are spot-on.

  169. Duke84 says:

    Face reality people – it was just Oswald.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Sean
  170. LondonBob says:
    @Ron Unz

    A close in spotting team is hardly unusual, also remember these guys couldn’t miss so the number of shooters and teams would be as many as possible.

  171. LondonBob says:
    @Hibernian

    Maybe it is a Jewish obsession, hence why something known in America. Chamberlain is still quite popular here and he and his father are seen as role model for Theresa May as a populist conservative.

  172. Durruti says:
    @geokat62

    Like any good gumshoe worth his salt, the first question he asks himself after arriving at the crime scene is Cui bono, who benefits?

    In the case of the JFK assassination, there was clearly one very large beneficiary that stood out above the rest, Israel.

    Ahh! Clues, Evidence.

    Excellent comment!

    Agree!

  173. @Durruti

    John F. Kennedy was not an ‘anti-Semite,’

    I agree, of course ! I am treated as an anti-Semite all the time, although I’m not, so I use that word with implicite quotation marks. I define an anti-Semite as: “someone whom the Jewish elite don’t like.”
    And my definition of a Jew is “someone who considers himself Jewish”. I am aware of the Khazar theory, which is somewhat speculative. There are many mysteries about the origin of the Jews. One theory I like it that they are the return of the Phoenicians/Carthaginians with a vengeance. But I don’t think it matters much, and I don’t think the question of origin is very helpful to understand the modern Jewish Question.

  174. @NoseytheDuke

    and @Daniel Rich
    and @Iris
    That’s a plausible scenario, I admit.
    But then again, as I wrote in comment 75, the point remains that Witt came forward to make a declaration to the HSCA that had the effect of connecting in the public psyche JFK’s public assassination to the Kennedys’ anti-Semitism, and therefore, implicitely, to Jewish vengeance. If the umbrella itself was not a message, then Witt’s testimony was. Two birds with one stone?

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Daniel Rich
  175. @Skeptikal

    Yes, Skeptical, and ‘thanks” for the reiteration as to who and what was the murdered Mary Pinchot Meyer.

    I trust Laurent Guyenot knows about Mary’s intense love affair with President JFK,🤔 and after his barbaric & election overturning murder, how she knew about CIA’s Counterintelligence & Israel friendly, James Jesus Angleton’s, passion😈for Jack’s last nightmatish ride on Elm Street.

    P.S.: Mary’s remains rest in her great-grandfather, Gifford Pinchot’s, Milford, Pa-based estate, which I have visited. Fyi, it’s a tourist spot now where her historical relationship with President JFK is unspoken. 🤔

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyenot
  176. Durruti says:
    @Truth3

    The odds of it being a Jew taking a video of JFK… if somebody WAS taking film right at the right spot (if it was just coincindental) was over 100 to 1 that day.

    The Zionist Oligarchs – apparently film all their Terrorist deeds, from the assassination of JFK, to the laughing Israeli camera crew – on 9/11. It is their Hollywood gene. I suspect they have a few other films hidden, such as the murder of the Tsar & his family, Malcolm X, M L King, Lennon, the Coup in the Ukraine, & a few dozen other Oscar winners, possibly, even their attack on The liberty.

  177. “In modern day , parasols and umbrellas are present in several religions . After the fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of Christianity , the Catholic church adopted the umbrella (umbraculum ) in several of their Papal ceremonies . Umbraculum is most often used during succession ceremonies when a new Pope assumes the power …” Umbrellahistory.net .
    BusinessInsider : ” …pressing Thompson I learned that the man who came forward as Umbrella Man never provided proof that he was in fact the man with the umbrella . Even the dentist story is third , fourth or fifth hand not verified by Thompson or his researcher friend . All of which proves nothing and all of which suggests maybe … that the man’s improbable story about Neville Chamberlain is,indeed , fabricated . Just because a story is absurd does not make it real…this is something well understood by the game-players of the COVERT operations house of mirrors : the JESUITICAL contortions that can be made to twist into any credible scenario .”

  178. Sparkon says:
    @Lurker

    What if it were raining and there were numerous people with umbrellas?

    Precisely.

    Despite all the special pleading going on here by people who’ve read too many men’s adventure novels, or watched too many episodes of “Charlie’s Angels,” this Rube Goldbergian umbrella signalling scheme would never get off the ground. It is a unnecessary complication with built-in failure modes.

    The go-ahead for the operation was likely given the night before. The die was cast. There was no turning back, and why would they?

    If it had kept raining in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963, would it have changed history? Several books and articles have pondered this question. President John F Kennedy greeted a crowd on a misty morning rain in Fort Worth at 8:45 a.m. central standard time. The weather in Dallas had been rainy, but the sun came out before the president’s plane had landed.

    https://www.baltimoresun.com/weather/bs-md-weatherpage-1123-20131122-story.html

  179. gkruz says:
    @Sean

    Some liberal simp just had to get a fawning reference to his pets in here no matter how irrelevant. Dey be so much wisers than us dwight folks…

  180. gkruz says:
    @Pheasant

    The donation could have been sincere, or it could have been a gesture to make them seem concerned patriots, or it could have been money laundering a payoff to certain members of the Dallas PD for their silence in the operation. Who knows? I never take any Jewish action at face value.

  181. Hibernian says:
    @Stonehands

    Right. I only bought the official story at the time and for a few years after, as a very young kid, but the idea of Oswald as nothing but a patsy never appealed to me.

  182. @Duke84

    The more interesting question is where was J. Edgar Hoover on the night of November 21, 1963?

    (Allegedly meeting with some coup plotters in Dallas. Some of them flew home after the meeting. Some others stuck around to enjoy the show.)

  183. Sean says:
    @Duke84

    I try to avoid the self-certainty that seems to be a bias in the reasoning behind the LHO didn’t do it because he couldn’t crowd. On paper the odds against him succeeding increased with every miss and chance for the agents and cops to fire at him and/or the limo driver to swerve and accelerate. An important point is the chance for him to get away would decline precipitously too. By my way of thinking the most important factor would have been single mindedness. He would have had to have been committed to succeed irrespective of the consequences.

    We don’t know Oswald had no help of encouragement, he may have been talking to Cubans and Soviets about his intentions and they maybe just listened which he may have interpreted them as having approved. The fact he was talking to the Cubans and KGB was considered worth keeping secret for several decades, and there is supposed to be more along the same lines that has still not been declassified.

    Even with a miss or two, hitting a moving head from 265 feet would have been workmanlike marksmanship. In the circumstances that he might have been spotted and shot at any second it was nicely done, but it might have been a fluke. On the other hand the limo was following a straight track, the driver seems to have brought it to a near halt before the head shot, and Kennedy was quite exposed. It would depend on the determination of the shooter not just his skill, but the circumstances and enormity of killing a president are so unique, plus getting out the area would be so uncertain that it would require someone of formidable resolution.

    My feeling is a professional would not even try, and he would understand he’d know too much afterwards anyway. A loner would not have that problem. Oswald fits the profile better than any CIA agent I think. For the shooting, you cannot exclude that he may have just got lucky. Whoever did it, they were risking a lot so it would have to be tremendously meaningful to them.

    Oswald seemed such a insignificant person to kill the great man that contingency was ruled out. I think Oswald the CIA agent who agreed to go to Russia on a fake defector mission for the agency with no way of knowing what would happen to him, would have been an insanely extreme patriot. Such an Oswald might be willing to do anything he was ordered to I suppose. The trouble is Oswald seems to have been anti establishment right back into his teens. He was an immature 17 year old when he joined the Marines, and though he toughened up considerably they evidence of him ever being an anti communist fanatic is just lacking.

    Here is a 60 year old man at 230 yards with a .45 pistol.

    • Agree: Duke84
  184. @Ted Heath

    Once again, let’s try to put the “Kennedy wanted to end the FED” myth to bed.

    President Kennedy was not assassinated for being anti-Fed. I don’t know how much more clearly that can be said. His death on November 22nd, 1963 was a sad tragedy, but it had nothing to do with any stupid and baseless Executive Order silver certificate conspiracy.

    The claim is not borne out by the facts. First, E.O. 11110 had nothing to do with United States Notes, and did not affect any section of law referring to them. Second, E.O. 11110 did not anywhere mention any quantity of money; wherever the $4 billion-plus figure came from, it was not E.O. 11110. Third, The President had no authority to issue such an edict. Even utilizing the provisions of the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933, the most the President could issue without statutory authorization was $3 billion.

    What E.O. 11110 did was to modify previous Executive Order 10289, delegating to the Secretary of the Treasury various powers of the President. To these delegated powers, E.O. 11110 added the power to alter the supply of Silver Certificates in circulation. Executive Order 11110, therefore, did not create any new authority for the Treasury to issue notes; it only affected who could give the order, the Secretary or the President.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jfk-not-killed-in-fed-con_b_4287519?guccounter=1

    Please read this entire article and quit spreading lies.

  185. Sean says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Two of the replies to my comment that it is very sad how Unz is publishing articles like this one mentioned the ‘truth’. We all love the truth, but being certain that one has it is rather arrogant.

    • LOL: bluedog
    • Troll: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @bluedog
  186. Agent76 says:

    Be sure and dive into all of the data supporting link’s located at the bottom of this web page.

    November 23, 2019 JFK, MLK, RFK, 50 Years of Suppressed History: New Evidence on Assassination of John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Robert F. Kennedy.

    Failures to Confront the Unspeakable, and The Way Ahead. Part I

    Today November 22, 2019, we commemorate the passing of JFK. November 22, 1963, the assassination of JFK in Dallas, Texas. Fifty-six years ago. January 21, 2019. Martin Luther King Day

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/50-years-of-suppressed-history-new-evidence-on-the-assassination-of-john-f-kennedy-martin-luther-king-and-robert-f-kennedy/5329847

  187. @Iris

    What is even more unbelievable and strikingly odd is “Umbrella Man” and “Dark Complected Man” sat next to each other, on the curb, seconds after the shooting, while everybody else is taking shelter from the shooter at the Grassy Knoll.

    Questions concerning 3rd photo from the top: Why are the two camera men in this photo filming the couple on the ground, who themselves are looking directly at the camera men? Why is no one ducking and running for cover, for as many as 8 shots were supposedly just fired? Why is Abraham Zapruder missing from his lofty post, which he was said to be filming from at that precise moment?

    Because the whole thing was just another “made for TV drama”.
    https://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/index.html

  188. @the grand wazoo

    Yes, “Dr. Mary’s Monkey” a great book on the origins and weaponization of cancer.

    Sorry to say the “Kennedy was trying to end the FED” is B.S. I addressed it in comment 190.

    Same can be said for “Lincoln and greenbacks”. Here is the low down on Lincoln and greenbacks.

    [MORE]

    Lincoln promoted the National Bank Acts of 1863 and 1864. Here is a description of this system. It is provided by a specialist organization, Tax Analysts.

    Federal taxes were also instrumental in instituting a system of national banking during the war. The National Banking Acts of 1863 and 1864 imposed a system of “free banking” — banks established by general incorporation as opposed to specific charters — on a national level. State banks were granted national charters and allowed to issue national bank notes (these notes were separate from Greenbacks). One third of a national bank’s capital had to consist of federal bonds, since the new national notes were to be backed by federal bonds. The National Banking Acts thus served as another means to induce bankers to purchase bonds. In an attempt to avoid increased regulation, however, many state banks declined to seek national charters. To remedy this problem, the 1864 act imposed a 10 percent tax on state bank notes to drive them out of existence. As a result of this tax, the number of national banks tripled by the war’s end, while their purchase of U.S. bonds nearly quadrupled.

    https://www.garynorth.com/public/6875.cfm

  189. anonymous[222] • Disclaimer says:
    @SurfingUSA

    Kennedy was not so much assassinated as publicly executed, in case anyone else got any fancy ideas about reining in Jewish power.

    — just like the firebombing of Germany, planned by Jews

    — just like the eradication of Germans, as planned by Theodore Kaufmann, to the praise of the Jewish media

    — just like the silencing of Charlottesville protesters, prosecuted by Jewish lawyers in league with ADL, with intent to “crush . . .silence. . . and bankrupt” the protesters

    — just like the impeachment hearings: if we can do this to the president of the USA, think how powerless you are, Wage Slave.

  190. JFK “signed” his death warrant as soon as he selected LBJ as his running mate . LBJ was ruthless and likely murdered his way to his leadership role in Congress . Johnson was determined to become President and it is reported that his fixer , Bobby Baker , at Kennedy’s inauguration turned to an associate and stated that Kennedy would never complete his term of office .
    LBJ was determined to have Earl Warren (33rd degree Freemason )lead the commission to investigate Kennedy’s assassination .
    Warren refused LBJ ‘s requests several times and finally agreed to do so . LBJ recounted to his mentor Senator Richard Russell how he summoned Warren to the Oval Office and informed him of “… what Hoover had told him about a little incident in Mexico City ” whereupon Warren began to cry and told LBJ ” I won’t turn you down , I’ll just do whatever you say .” Excerpted from History Matters Archive -LBJ-Russell .
    What did Hoover have on Earl Warren ?

  191. @Germanicus

    You are making my point. Taking away the presumption of innocence has resulted in the holocaust narrative and many other crimes against individuals and civilized societies.

  192. Iris says:
    @NobodyKnowsImADog

    If you read Laurent’s book “Yahweh to Zion” you’ll see he’s under no illusions about whether he’s real or not. It’s likely the most thorough dissection of the sect you’ll ever come across.

    Indeed. Laurent Guyenot is an outstanding intellectual.

    It is a immense privilege to read his works, and the UR is doing an equally great favour to its readers by publishing him. Thanks to all, including the commentators, for the fascinating discussion.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  193. Durruti says:
    @lysias

    Isn’t it significant that the patsy set up to take the blame for the RFK assassination was a Palestinian?

    Do birds fly?

  194. Iris says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Thermite is used as a cutting charge.

    Exactly. Nanothermite and possibly thermite were used as cutting charges on the Twin Towers’ steel facades, and placed alongside these facades as to simulate the sectional view of a commercial jet.

    In other terms, the nanothermite was used to simulate the silhouette and penetration of the Twin Towers by the CGI “planes”, while the real planes were taken somewhere else.

  195. Agent76 says:

    Sep 19, 2019 RFK Jr. Names RFK’s Killer

    Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Claims to Know Who Really Killed His Father and is Out to Prove It.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  196. @ChuckOrloski

    I trust Laurent Guyenot knows about Mary’s intense love affair with President JFK

    I do, a really moving story. I once called her JFK’s Mary Madgalene

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  197. JFK died mysteriously after being hit by four bullets, one in rear cranium, rear shoulder, front throat and fragmentary bullet to right front temple. Connelly was hit by a zigzag magic bullet, three bystanders were hit by Elm Street curb bullet splatter and the limousine front windshield were all hit by a lone gunman. LHO, MLK & RFK were also killed by lone gunmen, and if you do not believe that you will be persecuted.

  198. Iris says:
    @Skeptikal

    I thought it had been rather well established that a sharpshooter had been brought in from the French/Corsican mob.

    Lucien Sarti’s involvement is possible, but is a red herring.

    He might have been approached and brought to Dallas to add to the confusion, as the Kennedy assassination was a sophisticated “smoke and mirrors” operation, with many deliberate false leads.

    The people who shot President Kenned were hired guns, members of the Chicago mob: Charles “Chuck” Nicoletti, Marshall Caifano, Johnny Roselli and James Sutton Files.

    President Kennedy was shot at the head twice, almost instantaneously, first by Charles Nicoletti firing from the Dal-Tex Building, then by James Files taking a shot from the Grassy Knoll.

    James Files used a very powerful round, a frangible bullet.

    This is why, on the Z film, the President’s head is shown first slightly projected forward, then very powerfully projected backwards and to the left, when the more powerful bullet hit his right temple.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  199. Zumbuddi says:

    ” . . .and if you do not believe that you will be persecuted.”

    Total nonsense.

    Everyone knows only Jews are persecuted.

  200. S says:

    Thanks for the link to the remarkable History Channel JFK documentary.

    For the so called ‘progressive’ Anglosphere establishment, in both it’s ‘right’ and ‘left’ manifestations, the ‘Chamberlain umbrella’ is most certainly a hated symbol of weakness, appeasement, and ultimate failure. Whether it’s prominent presence at Dealey Plaza that day was a deliberately placed symbolic ‘pièce de résistance’ to top off a carefully choreographed assassination or just a quirk of history is something we may never know.

    As for Abraham Zapruder, his family, and their profiting from the famous film he took, there are aspects of it that are remindful of Larry Silverstein and his profiting from 911 and the destruction of the Twin Towers/Building 7.

    In addition to Zapruder’s making about a million dollars in today’s money by selling rights to it in the days following the assassination to Life magazine (the head of which, Charles Douglas Jackson, had extensive experience in psy-ops work for the US government), the Zapruder family in 1999 would win 16 million dollars in arbitration with the United States over it’s ownership, the government having seized ownership of the film from them. Time Life had sold the film back to the Zapruders years before for $1.

    Arbitration had been decided upon to determine the value of the Zapruder film with the film being compared to Leonardo da Vinci’s Codex.

    One of the three arbitrators was Kenneth Feinberg, who besides being US senator Ted Kennedy’s chief of staff for five years, was also the Chairman of the Board of Directors for the John F. Kennedy Library Foundation.

    In addition Feinberg headed up the 7 billion dollar 911 victims compensation fund.

    Ironically, July 16, 1999, the day the arbitration panel made it’s decision that the US government pay 16 million to the Zapruder family for the JFK assassination film, would also be the very day John F Kennedy Jr would die in a plane crash:

    Zapruder Film Nets $16 Million

    The other expert compared the six-foot strip of film, climaxed by the horrific head shot that killed the president, to the Codex of Leonardo da Vinci, for which billionaire Bill Gates recently paid $30 million.

    Adams and Feinberg said that “25 years ago, few if any, could predict the value of the Zapruder film as a unique historical item of unprecedented worth.” They also noted that “items associated with President Kennedy and his family have been increasing in value.”..

    ..The arbitration panel actually made its decision on July 16, the same day John F. Kennedy Jr. died in a plane crash, but delayed the announcement in the wake of the tragedy.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1999/08/04/zapruder-film-nets-16-million/4f13b1c5-e6ab-45b3-86c6-92e442b5b905/

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Douglas_Jackson

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Laurent Guyenot
  201. JFK
    was
    RIGHT
    about
    Israel

  202. bluedog says:
    @Sean

    When in the pursuit of “truth” one must seek all avenues,when one condemns an article its author,the owner of the site because it fails to meet his thought of truth ,that my friend is the utmost arrorgance.!!!

    • Replies: @Sean
  203. babu says:

    JFK may or may not have actually died on Nov 22nd. The whole thing is a hoax that includes Zapruder, Umbrella man, Dan Rather etc.

  204. @Ron Unz

    That’s a possibility, of course. In my mind, it is a matter of probabilities. And I find it very improbable that this guy just happened to do his little protest at this precise spot and seconds. But alos, reading his testimony to the HSCA, he doesn’t mention Kennedy being soft on communism at all. Excerp:

    Mr. GENZMAN. Could you elaborate further as to the type of symbol you thought you were applying?
    Mr. WITT. I just knew it was a sore spot with the Kennedys; I just knew the vague generalities of it. It had something to do with something that happened years ago with the senior Joe Kennedy when he was Ambassador to England.

    In fact, when asked if his gesture had anything to do with the Kennedys being soft on communism, he denied:

    Mr. Fauntroy. I wonder if you would care to tell us a little more about your understanding of the significance of the umbrella, and why you felt that it would heckle the president to raise the umbrella?
    Mr. WITT. I know the generalities of the thing. It had something to do with the–when the senior Mr. Kennedy was Ambassador or England, and the Prime Minister, some activity they had had in appeasing Hitler. The umbrella that the Prime Minister of England came back with got to be a symbol in some manner with the British people. by association, it got transferred to the Kennedy family, and, as I understood, it was a sore spot with the Kennedy family, like I said, in coffee break conversations someone had mentioned, I think it is one of the towns in Arizona, it is Tucson or Phoenix, that someone had been out at the airport or some place where some members of the Kennedy family came through and they were rather irritated by the fact that they were brandishing the umbrellas. This is how the idea sort of got stuck in my mind.
    Mr. FAUNTROY. Is it true that what you felt was that Mr. Kennedy would be sensitive because of the appeasement image of the umbrella as related to his father?
    Mr. WITT. Not the appeasement thing. It was just–excuse me–I just understood that it was sort of a sore spot, with them and this was just one thing. I personally never thought too much of liberal politics in general. In this case the Kennedy family just happened to be in office.
    Mr. FAUNTROY. I see. And it had no relationship in your own thinking between Mr. Kennedy’s posture with; say, the Russians?
    Mr. WITT. No. No. No. That was not it at all.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @chris
  205. Regarding the assassination of the two Kennedys, JFK and RFK, I wonder why I have not noticed any pundits considering the death of their older brother, Joseph Kennedy jr.?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_P._Kennedy_Jr.

    Notice:

    1) He seems to have been the first brother to be considered a hopeful for the highest office in the land.

    2) His death seems to have been very suspicious, to me. I would guess that it was also an assassination, though its hard for me to state how probable that is. Wikipedia makes a point of mentioning that the filming plane following Joseph jr.’s plane belonged to a unit run by a son of FDR.

    3) The filming aspect seems to match in style the Zapruder filming of the event in Dallas.

  206. @Laurent Guyenot

    Yes, Laurent, and I can confess to busting your balls,” * and indeed, Mary Pinchot Meyer’s is “a really moving story. I once called her JFK’s Mary Madgalene.”

    Nonetheless, for the rather affectionate part of Mary Magdalene’s legacy, she got stoned by crazy & self righteous Jews.

    In contrast, the bright & adulterous peacenik, Mary Pinchot Meyer, got murdered on a Georgetown canal trail, and to date, her’s is an Unsolved Case Mystery,😟 which never appeared on the popular American TV series.

    * A lyric from Pink Floyd’s song, “Mother.”

    Thanks for another terrific learning experience, Laurent, and fyi, am saddened how Ron Unz rained acid upon the fascinating “Umbrella Man.”

    • Replies: @Daniel Rich
  207. anon[838] • Disclaimer says:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/11/22/jfk-what-the-cia-hides/

    This author blames the CIA for obstruction suppression and distortion of the facts findings and accuses it of misrepresentation with powerful people on board like supreme court justice . Also mentions the suspicions of conspiracy raised by LBG ( out of all people !) de Gaulle , Robert Kennedy and Fidel Castro.

    All of them are dead So is Soviet and most of Cuban dissidents are possibly dead as well

    So what is preventing the investigation at the manner the previous investigation was carried out with open visible fatal flaws and biases .

  208. @Iris

    No one knows for sure who were the shooters , but based upon eyewitness accounts , forensics and accounts from the nurses and doctors who treated JFK at Parkland Hospital there were more than one as Kennedy was hit from behind and from the front . Former French President Charles DeGaulle might agree that one or more of them were French/Corsican assassins as he had been the subject of several assassination attempts in 1961 and 1962 which he blamed on John Foster Dulles and the CIA .
    The Kennedy killshot which , as described by Dr.Crenshaw , hit him in the right temple and exited at the rear of his skull could have come from a gunman hiding in a sewer drain near where his limousine almost came to a halt . This sewer drain has since been covered up , but it’s existence was substantiated at the time of JFK’s murder .
    In his book “A sniper looks at Dealey Plaza ” Craig Roberts opines that “…it would take a minimum of two people shooting .There was little hope that I alone , even equipped with precision equipment could duplicate the feat described by the Warren Commission … I would never put anyone in the Texas School Depository Building , with so many more locations that were more advantageous …unless I needed a diversion .If I did, it would be a good place for red herrings to be observed by witnesses .”

  209. Ron Unz says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    That’s a possibility, of course. In my mind, it is a matter of probabilities. And I find it very improbable that this guy just happened to do his little protest at this precise spot and seconds.

    I think one major problem is that “conspiracy theories” tend to attract “conspiratorially-minded people.”

    I Googled around a little, and as far as I can tell there’s absolutely ZERO evidence that the “Umbrella Man” had the slightest connection to the JFK assassination. Indeed, the fact that he voluntarily came forward 15 years later and revealed his identity would certainly seem to suggest the contrary. Why would he do that if he had been part of the conspiracy?

    Basically, he was holding an umbrella in the general vicinity of JFK when he was shot, so the conspiracy-people got all excited and e.g. claimed he may have been secretly firing a poison dart at JFK or something totally ridiculous like that. Maybe he was actually a Venusian agent and his umbrella was really a death-ray gun.

    The problem with focusing on all sorts of highly-implausible issues is that it automatically detracts from the more important and solidly-documented ones.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Laurent Guyenot
  210. gkruz says:
    @Truth3

    I believe that the presidential motorcade’s route was changed at the last minute, ostensibly to bypass the huge crowds lined up to see JFK, and hurry him off to the Dallas Trade Mart for his speech. This meant bypassing the TV cameras, so none would be able to film the assassination in live time (just a cohenincidence, I am sure), but if this is so, it begs the question of why Zapruder and the Babushka Lady were there with their home movie cameras to capture what the TV networks would miss.

    • Replies: @Iris
  211. Ron Unz says:
    @Skeptikal

    Lover of JFK, to whom he confided his vision for major peaceful change in the US of A and the world.

    I really think the vast JFK hagiography that occupies the minds of many JFK conspiracy people, including some of the most respectable ones, hardly enhances their credibility. Lots of them seem to believe that JFK was about to establish world peace and was killed by the CIA for that reason. Frankly, I find the whole framework totally ludicrous.

    For example, Seymour Hersh’s book on JFK certainly provides lots of very negative details of his activities. But JFK conspiracy people always discount Hersh, claiming that he’s a JFK hater.

    Okay, but what about Michael Collins Piper, whose JFK assassination book has certainly been one of the most important. He provides some reasonable evidence that JFK had been planning to launch an unprovoked “sneak attack” against China just before he died:

    https://www.unz.com/book/michael_collins_piper__final-judgment/#jfk-s-plan-to-attack-china

    Offhand, it seems to be that an early 1960s American attack against China would have probably had far worse and more significant long-term geopolitical consequences than e.g. Bush’s attack against Iraq or a possible Trump attack against Iran.

  212. Iris says:
    @S

    `Ironically, July 16, 1999, the day the arbitration panel made it’s decision that the US government pay 16 million to the Zapruder family for the JFK assassination film, would also be the very day John F Kennedy Jr would die in a plane crash.

    Thanks, very interesting comment.

    Just a quibble: JFK Jr did not die in a plane crash; he most probably got killed when his plane was shot down (by a missile?).

    At the time of his death, JFK Jr had acquired a piece of hard evidence that would have allowed him to re-open the investigation into his father’s assassination.

    This piece of evidence was a Cartier wristwatch that the President was wearing when he was shot. It got covered in brain matter and mercury from the frangible bullet that hit JFK.

    It was kept for a while by RFK, and finally ended up in John John’s possession, accompanied with sworn affidavits proving its chain of possession.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  213. Iris says:
    @Ron Unz

    Indeed, the fact that he voluntarily came forward 15 years later and revealed his identity would certainly seem to suggest the contrary. Why would he do that if he had been part of the conspiracy?

    I think that you misunderstand the nature and purpose of the successive official reviews of JFK assassination records (ARRB, etc..).

    These official reviews were not meant at finding the truth, but at finding the evidence that could lead to the truth and then destroy it to perpetuate the cover-up.

    Many honest researchers involved in these reviews have quit in disgust; the fact is well documented and should be a conscience call. Best.

  214. Durruti says:
    @follyofwar

    it would have been far better if Nixon had won.

    Appreciate your thought, but no!

    In politics, one must not play around. John F. Kennedy understood that 1960 was his time. He had to win then, or lose forever. As a loser, he would have had much less of a chance to become President in 1964, or 1968.

    I highly recommend a reading of his “Profiles in Courage” – a great series of essays, with a message for all Americans.

    Kennedy, a brilliant scholar, and Man of action, had on his agenda important things that had to be done, (or at least begun), in 1960.

    JFK as President:

    1. 1st President to insist on Legal Equality of all Americans. (Who was his Atty Gen?)?

    2. Unravel French & British Empires (arrange independence for 40 African Nations- including South Africa).

    3. De Nuclearize the Zionist Land Thieves.

    4. Maintain the Sovereignty of the USA.

    5. Ensure Prosperity – Employment, stop Inflation, for American workers.

    6. Prevent outbreak of Nuclear Conflict with USSR.

    7. You continue this list.

    Kennedy could not wait, and, therefore, had to choose L B Johnson as his Vice Presidential running mate (even though he was well warned of the risks involved – including the danger to his life, as it would place a Zionist Mafioso only a heartbeat from the Presidency).

    Kennedy was on a Mission to save the Republic (our American Republic), which had been weakened and was in great danger. His brother Robert, was with JFK, all the way. They were idealists, and wanted to save the world.

    *Yes, Ron Unz, not one of your other writers have made these points. I am available to flesh these points out – no charge.

    We Americans lost everything on November 22, 1963. We have not yet begun to fight back!

    Dr. Peter J. Antonsen

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Skeptikal
  215. Sean says:
    @bluedog

    Humility means one does not have to choose this truth or that. Anything is possible. There were once very many people who thought a conspiracy likely. In the last 50 years, there has been a shift away from thinking a conspiracy was behind the assassination. While this is only the balance of opinion, it should still carry some weight against ‘who benefits’ arguments .

  216. Iris says:
    @gkruz

    This meant bypassing the TV cameras, so none would be able to film the assassination in live time (just a coincidence, I am sure).

    It is very interesting that you bring this topic.

    It is a documented fact that during all past official visits, President Kennedy’s motorcade comprised a open-top lorry, driving ahead of the Presidents’ limousine, and carrying journalists sat backward on graded tiers, who would film the President and the crowd cheering on him.

    At Dallas, the journalists’ truck got cancelled, and the way paved for the sole Abraham Zapruder to document the circumstances of the JFK assassination. Just another complete coincidence, obviously.

  217. @Durruti

    Thanks for such encouraging & fighting words, Dr. Peter J. Antonsen!

    Am certain unbowed Moslems who inhabit what Jews want to become Greater Israel have started fighting, in multiple ways, as soon as The Transfer Agreement commenced.

    A question.

    After the nightmarish liberation of Baghdad for which a ZUS Green Zone was required to stabilize mere American occupier safety, how do Supremacist Jews figure they could institute zionist rule over such large tract of land inhabited by their sworn enemies?🤔 No doubt, 9/11 and the pursuant GWOT was the diabolical Zionist Jew blowback.

    My answer.

    They are obsessed, empowered, unaccountable, and effectually crazy to try such, and whoever is ZUS president, shall cover the Jewish plan with a marked up🤑 umbrella, which could not defend against a hard rain that issues out of the pregnant Belly of a Green Bird.

    Thanks & my respect, Dr. Peter Antonsen.

  218. chris says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    seems like Witt was making the case not that JF Kennedy was soft on Communism but that Joe Kennedy had been soft on Fascism.

  219. chris says:
    @Ron Unz

    but Ron, you said:

    Why would professional snipers need a signaler?

    this is what Laurent said:

    But I must say I find it not entirely convincing. I cannot conceive that professional snipers would need such a conspicuous accomplice, standing almost in their line of fire …

    He doesn’t seem to support that theory either.

  220. Iris says:
    @refl

    There is another film of the assasination, taken from the distance across the Plaza (maybe, someone can link it?

    The Orville Nix film is the other most important film of the JFK assassination, especially that Mr Nix was facing the Grassy Knoll. Unfortunately, like the Zapruder film, the footage was first “vetted” by the authorities before being released to the public.

    Mr Nix, interviewed by Mark Lane, declared that in his experience the shots were coming from the Grassy Knoll, and that he did not recognise his film after the FBI returned it to him.

    Some have seen evidence in the Nix film: it is hardly conclusive in my opinion.

    The Zapruder film was tampered with, using the basic techniques available in the 1960’s:

    1) The massive outburst of blood and brain matter from President Kennedy’s head was either re-coloured, or concealed by removing a few frames.

    The fact was revealed by Dino Brugioni, legendary expert at the CIA’s National Photographic Interpretation Center (NPIC), who had seen the original, raw Zapruder footage.

    Shortly before he passed away, Mr Brugioni made these revelations in an interview filmed by Douglas Horn, ARRB military analyst.

    Gore details were removed to try and minimise the terrible impact of the main headshot, carried out with a frangible bullet that shattered JFK’s skull, God bless his soul.

    2) The failed limousine turn into Elm Street (ending up in the TSBD slip road) and the complete stop at the level of Umbrella Man were concealed simply by removing frames from the film.

    The purpose was to hide JFK’s driver nervousness and complicity.

    The Z film has been “corrected” to remove incriminating details; however, it remains an original and representative record of what happened on that day.

    What remains in the Z film is true: what was doctored is what was removed from it.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  221. I highly recommend a reading of his “Profiles in Courage” – a great series of essays, with a message for all Americans.

    Too bad Kennedy didn’t write it.

    Kennedy, a brilliant scholar, and Man of action, had on his agenda important things that had to be done, (or at least begun), in 1960.

    Your list is dishonest and frankly a bit loopy.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  222. peterAUS says:
    @Iris

    …..JFK Jr did not die in a plane crash; he most probably got killed when his plane was shot down (by a missile?)…

    Oh my. Just when one believes it can’t get…….more…… interesting….. around here.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  223. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Iris

    The failed limousine turn into Elm Street (ending up in the TSBD slip road) and the complete stop at the level of Umbrella Man were concealed simply by removing frames from the film.

    So was it Umbrella Man’s job to mark the spot where the limo was to halt?

    • Replies: @Iris
  224. @peterAUS

    Suppressed eyewitness accounts support the theory that JFK Jr.’s plane was brought down by a bomb planted on board . By all accounts he was a good pilot and the flying conditions were in fact good the night of the crash .It is said that he was about to enter politics and run for the Senate seat which Hillary Clinton won and ,in addition , there was speculation that he was going to expose George Bush’s role in the assassination of his father . See ” Exploding the Truth : The JFK Jr. assassination ” By John Koerner .

  225. @Pincher Martin

    Too bad Kennedy didn’t write it (Profiles in Courage).

    Correct–even Wikipedia admits this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiles_in_Courage

    The other interesting thing about the book is that there was a chapter about the Impeachment of Andrew Johnson and the _hero_ with the _courage_ was the deciding vote not to impeach.

    This would be considered wildly politically incorrect today (since Andrew Johnson is viewed by the Woke Folk as an “evil racist” who should have been impeached)–and might be enough to get the book banned or the Kindle chapter edited out of existence by Amazon at some point.

  226. anon[838] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    The Devil’s Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America’s Secret Government by David Talbott does tend to blame CIA for Kennedy’s death The book also recounts the outbursts against CIa and Dulles brothers after the Cuban affair was exposed. Dulles was fired and he was not happy He also was present in Dallas during the period around Kennedy’s visit to the city.
    It also finds CIA sending U 52 to Soviet without the knowledge of the US president by CIA .

    Truman tended to blame CIA after Kennedy’s assassination. Assassinations of Kennedy brothers are linked and stem from same factor or set of factors. CIA ’s roles in killings abroad or its plans to kill American in domestic soils will disabuse any thought that CIA is incapable of doing anything that is vile sinister and inhuman.

    Life is complex So is politics. One finds Eisenhower [plotting coups against Syria and inciting islamic jihadism in order to challenge the secular Arab forces across the ME but also finds him given g the nice farewell speech and forcing Israel and Europe to back off Suez.

    LBJ wanted and achieved modicum of social justice Nixon enacted numerous polices to safeguard the poor indigent and employees and the environment and also wanted a better health care . But both were deeply corrupted in so man y ways. Carter has turned himself into a different person .

    Wesley Clarke is honest and open about the “New York Money” dictating politics in USA . He is honest also about the nefarious nature of the Wolfowitz plans to dismember stable middle eastern countries while Russia is down He informs us also of the US plan to attack 7 countries of the ME for no apparent reason . But Wesley Clark is one who wanted to bomb Russian solders in Kosovo. There are other facts around W Clark which portrays this man as nothing but elitists who embraces the empire’s worldview most earnestly and without a fail.

    Personally I try not to mix different sides of a character . Guilt by association can be at play while and when we judge people’s lives that cover more than few different areas and a few years .

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  227. @9/11 Inside job

    See also : “The murder of JFK Jr.-Ten years After ” By Barry Chamish at rense.com . Was JFK Jr about to reveal , among other things ,the final truth about Rabin’s murder ? “This, Israel could not allow , its operatives were called into action .” Chamish

  228. JamesinNM says:

    Examine the reader survey titled “Defense of True Israel” at www dot MissionToIsrael dot org. Israel, the real Jews and God’s chosen people today are the born again Christians with changed hearts, regardless of their ethnic background (Roman 2:28-29). In comparison, Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 describes false Jews, people that claim to be Jews but are not, as the synagogue of Satan. Satan roams the earth seeking who he can destroy. Pray for Christ’s return and the destruction of all evil.

  229. S says:

    Very strong feelings still remain about Joseph P Kennedy Sr as evidenced by this 2013 New Republic article on the subject of ‘Munich’:

    One future president [JFK] had been in London shortly before the war, where his father Joseph P. Kennedy (that corrupt antisemitic bigot, who sympathised with Hitler, said that Germany should be conciliated before the war began, and thought that England would lose when it did) had been Roosevelt’s eccentric choice as American ambassador. On his return home, young Jack Kennedy wrote drily to his father in London that the American people were united in their determination “to fight to the last Englishman.”

    Joseph P Kennedy Sr had apparently hoped to win the presidency himself as early as 1940. When those plans fell through due to his falling out with the Roosevelt administration over his views, he began to groom his son Joseph Kennedy Jr for the role.

    Joseph Kennedy Jr, pictured below on Aug 12, 1944 on the last day of his life, would die when the plane he was piloting exploded prematurely during a bombing mission.

    [Curiously, just as in the case of his younger brother John’s 1963 assassination, the entire event was recorded on film (by a chase plane) though the film is now ‘lost’.]

    https://newrepublic.com/article/115803/munich-analogies-are-inaccurate-cliched-and-dangerous

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_P._Kennedy_Jr.

  230. Sparkon says:
    @Ron Unz

    He provides some reasonable evidence that JFK had been planning to launch an unprovoked “sneak attack” against China just before he died.

    Actually, according to Michael Collins Piper’s article, Kennedy ordered “contingency planning for the destruction of Communist China’s nuclear plants,” a course of action outlined by “one of the government’s leading experts on the Far East,” whom Pres. Kennedy had called in for a talk.

    I could not find the phrase “sneak attack” in Piper’s article.

    I’m sure there are contingency plans for a great many things that may or may not ever happen. Drawing up a contingency plan is not a guarantee that the plan will ever be used, but simply to ensure there is a Plan B on hand — or even Plan C (etc.) — if things don’t go as expected, and Plan A isn’t working.

    The original source for this claim about Kennedy ordering the contingency planning appears to be Stuart Alsop. cough cough.

    Frances Stonor Saunders, has pointed out in Who Paid the Piper: The CIA and the Cultural Cold War? (1999) that a high-level CIA official told her that Stewart Alsop was a “CIA agent”. Saunders discussed this issue with Joseph Alsop. He dismissed this claim as “absolute nonsense” but admitted that both men were very close to the agency: “I was closer to the Agency than Stew was, though Stew was very close… I dare say he did perform some tasks – he did the correct thing as an American… The Founding Fathers of the CIA were close personal friends of ours… It was a social thing. I have never received a dollar, I never signed a secrecy agreement. I didn’t have to… I’ve done things for them when I thought they were the right thing to do. I call it doing my duty as a citizen… The CIA did not open itself at all to people it did not trust… Stew and I were trusted, and I’m proud of it.”

    https://spartacus-educational.com/NDstewart_alsop.htm

  231. Ron Unz says:
    @anon

    The Devil’s Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America’s Secret Government by David Talbott does tend to blame CIA for Kennedy’s death

    Actually, I didn’t think that Talbot book was very persuasive at all. I thought his first JFK book Brothers, was much better. While it’s possible that Dulles may have been involved in the assassination, there seems no real evidence for that belief. By contrast, I think it seems overwhelmingly likely that LBJ was involved.

    In fact, as I noted in my article, Talbot recounts how some of the supposed conspirators specifically *mentioned* (rightly or wrongly) that LBJ was involved, but Talbot completely ignores the lead since if he’d explored the obvious possibility his book certainly would never have been published by a respectable press nor reviewed anywhere.

    As I recall, that’s exactly the same problem with the Douglass book. Douglass also seems terrified of considering the most likely suspects, namely LBJ and Mossad. Implicating “the CIA” or “the Military-Industrial Complex” is much safer for a liberal American writer:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyenot
  232. Duke84 says:
    @peterAUS

    The Carcano could be rebolted and refired in less than two seconds so it could be done.The first shot started the clock so Oswald was actually only firing two shots in the time frame.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @enstien
  233. Iris says:
    @CanSpeccy

    So was it Umbrella Man’s job to mark the spot where the limo was to halt?

    Umbrella Man was a signal, a spotter; Dark Complected Man was a supervisor organising a team of killers.

    There never was one sniper; there was at least 3 hit men shooting at JFK from different positions, in a triangulated crossfire.

    Plan A was to shoot the President at the head to ensure he couldn’t survive, and to do so from behind the limousine, North of Elm Street, to incriminate Oswald who was given a job at the TSBD for that purpose.

    Oswald would then be executed while trying to “escape” and it would be an open and closed case, no inquiry required, no public opinion to worry about.

    That was Plan A: the expert sniper was positioned inside the Dal-Tex building, close to the TSBD but with a much clearer line of sight, and was to take the fatal shot.

    If Plan A failed, the conspirators should action B, with a second sniper taking a shot from the Grassy Knoll. But this second hit man was in the open behind the picket fence, and the ballistics would reveal the plot.

    They knew that once they had started to shoot, they had to kill JFK no matter, otherwise their own lives would be in the balance.

    But shooting him from the Grassy Knoll would completely blow up the cover up, so it had to be a solution of last resort, and a decision made by a supervisor after all other options had failed.

    JFK’s driver came to Dallas with him; the motorcade’s route was changed at the last minute. There was no way he could have known where to stop; he would have been instructed to wait for an agreed hand sign.

    The team of killers, on the contrary, had done reconnaissance in Dallas and knew where was approximately the limit where a successful shot from the back would become unlikely.

    But the Grassy Knoll sniper had no way to know whether JFK had been hit in the head or not, he was too far, and in aiming position. Hence Umbrella Man was necessary indicating to him to get ready.

    Dark Complected Man, the Supervisor , assessed the overall situation, and indicated to the driver to slow down/stop the limousine.

    Putting Plan B in motion was dangerous and had to be carefully thought.
    Indeed, it proved to be the ruin of the cover up. The Z film was kept secret for years, but as soon as it was released, everybody understood what happened watching the President’s body being projected BACK AND TO THE LEFT.

  234. peterAUS says:
    @Duke84

    Yes.

    I’ve already had a chat along the same lines, in this very online pub, some time ago. It just gets boring repeating the same thing over and over again.

    Of course, even with Oswald as a “lone gunman” there are still some interesting elements in all that story.
    As one of the commentators here mentioned, but haven’t followed, that movement from the USA to the Soviet Union, and back, with a woman on top of it, is one of them.

    Then, there have definitely been a lot of gaps in all those official efforts to resolve all that “JFK thing”. How much of that was/is deliberate obfuscation to cover some tracks, how much is simple ass-covering and how much basic incompetence is another matter, too.

    In any case, I find observing the “analysts” more interesting than the event itself. People watching, if you will.

  235. Durruti says:
    @SurfingUSA

    Kennedy was not so much assassinated as publicly executed, in case anyone else got any fancy ideas about reining in Jewish power.

    Agree!

    JFK was assassinated, in a Coup d’état. But the method of the assassination was clearly a warning to all American Political would-be-heroes. It was a public execution, carried out in front of numerous civilian onlookers, and displayed on Nationwide TV, along with the (mysteriously), available film of the impact of a bullet on our President’s skull.

    We may list many American political leaders who have been executed BY BULLETS! The message is FEAR!

    I mention in passing the attack on Senator Rand Paul (who is the son of America’s Greatest Statesman, Ron Paul, who was criminally prevented from being the Republican Candidate for the Presidency). Six broken ribs, and a punctured lung for Rand Paul. He was beaten to a pulp, and left for dead. Rand Paul had been a Candidate for the Presidency, but, after the terrible attack, he wisely understood that he had to give up that hope.

    Sheer Terror greets the few Honest members of the political community. Recall, Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney was on a boat – where the Land Thieves shot to death 11 people. And now, Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, is receiving the Treatment.

    Americans will not recover their Liberty from the Zionist Terrorist takeover on 11/22/1963, without returning those bullets to their rightful owners.

    Durruti

    • Replies: @refl
    , @Alden
  236. @9/11 Inside job

    Totally agree, thats how he was killed by the same ones that killed JFK and RFK.

  237. @Agent76

    RFK, Jr. – The one true Kennedy hero working hard to save America from Big Pharma/Big Vaccine to this day.
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/

  238. @Iris

    Dear Iris!

    Am wondering why all the complications involved in killing President JFK on Elm Street were undertaken.

    One would think an easier assassination venue/circumstance was available, & such could have been pulled off, minus need for the hokey cover-up’s endless & disgusting controversy & drama. 🥴

    For example, with the availability of State-of-Art (long range) sniper weapons, & something better than the one LHO didn’t use,🙄JFK could have been killed anywhere that the Secret Service permitted.

    As you know, and in comparison, the dramatic 9/11 attacks were done sloppy & on purpose, and to date, both Israel & it’s ZUS partner perpetrators remain unaccountable.

    Do you have any thoughts on this weird albeit occult matter, Iris? If not, I understand. Thank you.

    • Replies: @Iris
  239. @Ron Unz

    Many great points, never even touching on the fact Jackie was her self, CIA…(I do not agree with this article which states Jackie was actually the one who splattered JFK’s brains).
    http://reformation.org/jackie-kennedy-was-cia-all-the-way.html

  240. Sorry, I just had to throw this into the mix..

    • LOL: Pincher Martin
  241. Durruti says:

    Too bad Kennedy didn’t write it (Profiles in Courage).

    Correct–even Wikipedia admits this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiles_in_Courage

    The wikipedia link admits no such thing.

    Profiles in Courage is a 1956 volume of short biographies describing acts of bravery and integrity by eight United States Senators, written by then-Senator John F. Kennedy, who won the Pulitzer Prize for the work.

    Either, you are illiterate, a liar, (or on a Mission). You might slander Washington, the Adams, Tom Paine, Patrick Henry, Paul Revere, Alexander Hamilton, and Thomas Jefferson, while you are at it. Try wikipedia, or the Zionist New York Times, Washington Post, or MSNBC for your source of ‘reliable’ facts..

    The wikipedia added toward the bottom: – – –

    Kennedy is credited as the sole author though some contemporaries insisted others did much of the work.

    – – – refers to attacks on John F. Kennedy‘s integrity by “some contemporaries.”

    First: Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information. It serves for brief reminders of a given topic, nothing more, and sometimes, not even that.

    Second: John F. Kennedy was a fine writer and wrote 7 Books and hundreds of articles.

    Read my lips! John F. Kennedy was the author of Profiles in Courage. That book is Him, and he is that book.

    Profiles in courage contains a message for all Americans.

    Freedom is nor Free! It must be Paid for!

    The Kennedy’s made the first payment. We must continue until our debt to History is paid in full!

    God Bless America!

    Durruti

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  242. @Emblematic

    Why troll ?
    One can perhaps argue about the ownership of these or those hidden in plain sight
    “imprints”, but it’s simply impossible to deny the symbolic and numeric occult
    underlying even for many events of incomparably lower magnitude than JFK
    assassination or 9/11 attacks.

  243. JFK was killed by accident by a three-round-burst from a Secret Service AR-15. The agent thought the motorcade was under fire when he heard three loud noises near the Texas School Book Depository. They were railway torpedoes set off by a passing train on the tracks near the motorcade route. Read the Warren Commission testimony of eyewitness Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill.

    (Referring to Halfback, the Secret Service followup convertible). “Agent George Hickey sat in the left rear, Agent Glen Bennett in the right rear, and on the seat between them lay an AR-15 .223 automatic rifle, with a muzzle velocity so powerful that should a bullet strike a man’s chest it would blow his head off.” [page 134]

    (Referring to Jackie Kennedy) Brooding was pointless now. Nevertheless she couldn’t cut it off. She would nap afternoons and lie awake throughout the night, turning things over and over in her mind. She considered Oswald and hoped he had been part of a conspiracy, for then there would be an air of inevitability about the tragedy; then she could persuade herself that if the plotters had missed on Elm Street they would have eventually succeeded elsewhere. What was so terrible was the thought that it had been an accident, a freak, that an inch or two here, a moment or two there would have reversed history. “I should have known that it was asking too much to dream that I might have grown old with him and see our children grow up together . . . so now he is a legend when he would have preferred to be a man,” she wrote later in the year. [page 645]

    — Quotes from The Death of A President by William Manchester.

    “The Day Kennedy Was Shot” by Jim Bishop. Key excerpt: Secret Service Agent Clint Hill called Bobby Kennedy from Parkland Hospital and said, “There has been an accident.” [page 175].

    “Mortal Error,” a book by Bonar Menniger, tells the story about Howard Donahue, a ballistics expert, who studied the Kennedy assassination. He took a human skull and marked on it where the bullet entered and exited, drilled a hole through those marks and ran a dowel rod through it to determine the angle of the bullet’s path. Tilting the skull at the same position as Kennedy’s head when he was shot, the dowel rod indicated that the path of the bullet originated directly behind Kennedy from the Secret Service followup vehicle.

    • LOL: NoseytheDuke
    • Replies: @peterAUS
  244. Skeptikal says:
    @Ron Unz

    “I really think the vast JFK hagiography that occupies the minds of many JFK conspiracy people, including some of the most respectable ones, hardly enhances their credibility. ”

    Uh, whom are you talking about?
    Whose “credibility”?
    Since the comment follows my own, I assume you mean me.
    I wrote a very shorthand-type rundown to put readers in the picture re Mary Pinchot Meyer.
    For which good deed I get to be called a conspiracy theorist. WTF?

    I am not a “hagiographer” nor “conspiracy theorist” nor is my mind “occupied by hagiography,” thank you very much for the casual insults.
    Shame on you for deploying the “conspiracy theorist” meme and for using it to make a gratuitous ad hominem putdown. Furthermore, in light of the extended pieces that you have graciously published here, you have some chutzpah labeling anyone a conspiracy theorist.

    Hate to berate my host here at the UR, but I find it offensive on the basis of a few words to be set up as a straw man for a broad argument on JFK and China, or JFK as saint or sinner.
    But since you go there,
    Regarding how Kennedy might have been formulating a new direction for the country I go by what I read in JFK and the Unspeakable, in particular his material on the American University speech; what I know about the back channels that Kennedy, at great risk to himself and his administration, had opened up to both Khrushchev and Castro in order to reduce tension and danger and find modus vivendi with the non-capitalist world (about which you can inform yourself, if you care to, by reading the well-documented “Fidel and Che: A Revolutionary Friendship,” by Simon Reid-Henry).

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  245. refl says:
    @Durruti

    a public execution, carried out in front of numerous civilian onlookers, and displayed on Nationwide TV

    This cannot be stressed enough! The fact to have multiple shooters was for once to assure that the thing worked out, but above all to make it a noisy, public execution.
    It has been asked why the umbrella man and his companion would be needed. The people behind would want to keep their authority up to the last moment. Maybe, they would have to call it off and wait for another opportunity. There had to be one definite sign for the shooting teams to go for it. And they would all shoot, no matter who hits first.
    The president of the United States ends up in a snuff film. One thing was not to hinder Israel from acquiring its nuclear weapon. The other one, which is to resonate through the ages, is that the most powerful man in the world is a nobody to his real masters. No person to run for office can escape the realization that he has to kneel in front of them.

    I found out by chance about the book by Michael Collins Piper. I had read Talbot’s book on Dulles, wondering how it was possible that I would find such dynamite in my local bookstore, not even needing to order on the internet (well, it was no dynamite then, but rather the latest line of defense for Voldemort).
    Checking a few references in Talbot’s book via Google, I ended up on some obscure site – Russian on top – which had a copy of Piper’s book online. Just the connection to Israel made my jaw drop and I asked myself, if it was allowed to read that stuff at all. Then I went ahead.
    Back then, I was still a conspiracy normy, and not an outright sicko as I have become in the meantime. Suddenly, certain unexplained features fell in place: The learned helplessness of American politicians towards Israel, the policy of never asking about their nuclear weapons, the unexplainable blunder of the Irak war…
    I have to stress that I never wanted to end up in the state that I have worked myself into. And strangely, this is about the only site to my knowledge, that deals with the issue.

  246. @Durruti

    Learn to read, Durruti. From Wikipedia:

    In Sorensen’s autobiography, Counselor: A Life at the Edge of History, he said he wrote “a first draft of most of the chapters” of Profiles in Courage and “helped choose the words of many of its sentences”.[12][13] Sorensen also wrote: “While in Washington, I received from Florida almost daily instructions and requests by letter and telephone – books to send, memoranda to draft, sources to check, materials to assemble, and Dictaphone drafts or revisions of early chapters.” (Sorensen, p. 146) Sorensen wrote that Kennedy “worked particularly hard and long on the first and last chapters, setting the tone and philosophy of the book”. Kennedy “publicly acknowledged in his introduction to the book my extensive role in its composition”. (p. 147) Sorensen claimed that in May 1957, Kennedy “unexpectedly and generously offered, and I happily accepted, a sum to be spread over several years, that I regarded as more than fair” for his work on the book. Indeed, this supported a long-standing recognition of the collaborative effort that Kennedy and Sorensen had developed since 1953.

    So Sorenson wrote a first draft of most of the chapters. He did extensive research on the entire book. But Kennedy “worked particularly hard and long on the first and last chapters, setting the tone and philosophy of the book.” Lots of laughs. Notice that Sorenson doesn’t say that Kennedy even wrote the first and last chapters, just that he worked particularly hard on them.

    And Sorenson was a Kennedy sycophant, who went out of his way his entire life to cover for Jack Kennedy.

  247. Skeptikal says:
    @Durruti

    “We Americans lost everything on November 22, 1963. ”

    True. The two most fateful tragedies that have befallen this country were the assassination of Lincoln and the assassination of JFK.

  248. Sparkon says:
    @Ron Unz

    I really think the vast JFK hagiography that occupies the minds of many JFK conspiracy people, including some of the most respectable ones, hardly enhances their credibility.

    Yes, Pres. Kennedy was very popular with most Americans at the time. It’s not without reason that some call his years in office Camelot. I think you had to be alive at the time to appreciate the almost magical change at the top when Jack took over from Ike. The contrast couldn’t have been more stark between aging Dwight D. Eisenhower and Mamie, and young, handsome John Fitzgerald Kennedy and his beautiful wife Jacqueline, who created a fashion sensation wearing those sleek, stylish Oleg Cassini creations that came to be known as “The Jackie Look.”

    About the only important thing Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy had in common was that the far right-wing in the United States hated them both with a purple passion.

    That said, Jack Kennedy was a notorious womanizer, and apparently a man of rather loose morals. You can be certain that kind of behavior did not sit well in some quarters, but I think Jackie was aware of her husband’s many infidelities and had come to terms with it. There can be no other explanation for Jackie bringing Grace Kelly dressed up as a nurse to visit Kennedy when he was laid up in a hospital with a bad back. It was not without good reason that Hollywood gossip columnist Hedda Hopper had called Grace Kelly a “nymphomaniac.” Throughout her adult life, Grace Kelly had a lusty sexual appetite, and apparently had her way with any and all good looking men, especially older ones, who got in range of those beautiful and hungry lips.

    GRACE: Actually, no. The first time was before he became the President, during that year he was in the hospital in New York with his back. I had been to a dinner party where I had met Mrs. Kennedy and her sister [Lee Bouvier Kennedy] for the first time. They asked me to go to the hospital with them to pay a visit and help cheer him up. They wanted me to go into his room and say I was the new night nurse.

    GALLICO: That was a quaint idea. Did you?

    GRACE: Well I hesitated! I was terribly embarrassed. Eventually I was sort of pushed into his room by the two girls. I introduced myself, but he had recognized me at once and couldn’t have been sweeter or more quick to put me at ease.

    Jacqueline Kennedy and Oleg Cassini

    For a time, Grace Kelly had been engaged to Oleg Cassini. Small world.

    On the positive side of the ledger, Pres. Kennedy was trying to keep Israel from getting nuclear weapons, he had worked out a compromise with Khrushchev after the Cuban missile crisis, and he had recognized the CIA’s complicity in the Bay of Pigs disaster. Further, he had signed off on pulling all U.S. combat personnel out of Vietnam by the end of 1965.

    Too bad he didn’t live to see it happen.

    —-
    erratum
    (Stewart Alsop not Stuart.)

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  249. @Skeptikal

    I feel like I’ve fallen into a time warp and woken up in liberal America, January, 1964.

    • Agree: S
    • LOL: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  250. Iris says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    JFK could have been killed anywhere that the Secret Service permitted.

    Dear Mr O. ; I hope you are keeping well.
    I recently read an extraordinary book which, I think, well answers your question.
    It is “The Inheritance: Poisoned Fruit of JFK’s assassination“, the biography of Christopher Fulton, a young American who bought JFK memorabilia trusted to and kept by his long-term White House assistant Evelyn Lincoln.

    C. Fulton obtained a voluntary confession from Agent Robert Boucke, head of the Protective Research Section for the SS in the White House since WW2.

    Agent Boucke recounted how, after several failed assassination attempts against JFK, an abort mission was organised by parties loyal to the President: himself, the SS, RFK, to unmask and arrest the conspirators.

    Unknown to them, they were betrayed by some SS agents who were actually part of another conspiracy organised by their adversaries, who had overtaken the abort mission and had turned it into a real assassination.

    So the parties who were trying to protect JFK were cheated by a conspiracy within the conspiracy; they were therefore compromised because they unwillingly contributed in bringing about the tragic outcome.

    The assassination of President Kennedy was a Coup d’Etat.
    For the coup to be a full operational success, it was necessary to smoothly open the White House to the plotters’ figurehead, LBJ.
    For the whole charade NOT to look like a coup d’état, JFK had to be shot by a convincing patsy.

    I guess the answer to your question is that in 1963, America was not the Banana Republic it has become today. With warmest regards, dear friend.

    • Replies: @Durruti
  251. @Laurent Guyenot

    If the umbrella itself was not a message, then Witt’s testimony was. Two birds with one stone?

    Given all the ‘right-in-your-face-baby’ Judea-riddled shenanigans in movies and on TV, the killing of more than 2 birds’ goal becomes quite apparent.

    When reading books on JFK/RFK/MLK’ slaughter, the first thing that’s jumps off all those pages is the unwillingness of the overall establishment [fill in the blanks] to dig for, and find, the truth. This, therefore, is indicative of the role [or hand] this establishment had in the occurrence of said killings.

    JFK’s assassination’s aftermath is one that has come close to my eternal question: “Where do I get seeds for seedless melons?

    • Replies: @Iris
  252. Ron Unz says:
    @Skeptikal

    Shame on you for deploying the “conspiracy theorist” meme and for using it to make a gratuitous ad hominem putdown. Furthermore, in light of the extended pieces that you have graciously published here, you have some chutzpah labeling anyone a conspiracy theorist.

    Hate to berate my host here at the UR, but I find it offensive on the basis of a few words to be set up as a straw man for a broad argument on JFK and China, or JFK as saint or sinner….Regarding how Kennedy might have been formulating a new direction for the country I go by what I read in JFK and the Unspeakable, in particular his material on the American University speech

    I really wasn’t focusing upon you in particular as a “JFK hagiographer” but just using your somewhat-relevant comment as a hook for my description of a large slice of JFK conspiracy people. But it does sound like you may indeed fall into that category.

    I think one reason lots of people have always dismissed the JFK conspiracy theories was that so many of the proponents seemed afflicted with JFK worship, seemingly interfering with their judgment, and making it impossible for them to believe that their great liberal hero had died at the hands of a lone gunman. Alex Cockburn always ridiculed all the JFK-as-peacenik worshipers, especially regarding Vietnam, and that’s probably a key reason he dismissed all the JFK conspiracy theories.

    As a contrary example, I found most of Hersh’s book pretty plausible, and he argued that e.g. JFK was behind the Diem assassinations, with a key motive being that the Diems were undertaking unauthorized peace negotiations with the North Vietnamese. If so, then JFK played a crucial role in escalating the Vietnam War.

    Personally, I think the likelihood that JFK was killed by “the Military-Industrial Complex” is nil, and it’s almost as unlikely that the CIA played the central role. By far the two most likely culprits are LBJ and Mossad, but liberal/mainstream writers are extraordinarily unwilling to point in those obvious directions, so maybe 99% of JFK books avoid those possibilities.

  253. @ChuckOrloski

    Thanks for another terrific learning experience, Laurent, and fyi, am saddened how Ron Unz rained acid upon the fascinating “Umbrella Man.”

    Mr. Orloski, may I kindly beg you to, when you add lines like the above to UR web site’s pages, to please, please, please do so with a warning sign, so my sense of humor doesn’t get ambushed by one of your hilarious one-liner scribblings?

    We’er running outa TV screens in this humble hamlet!!!

  254. SeanInNYC says:
    @dearieme

    Labor was throughout the 20th century virulently Communist and Russia-first after the Bolsheviks took over: that framed their opinions on Germany, Hitler and National Socialism.

    Prior to the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact labor members were virulently anti-Hitler because of Hitler’s pro-ethnic German/ Germany-first policies that negatively impacted Jewish interests.

    Post MR Pact when Russia and Germany were nominal allies (established through the publicly-revealed economic treaty portions of the pact, and essentially confirmed by the later mutual invasions and dismemberment of Poland), Labour was solidly pro-appeasement.

    After the German invasion of Russia (necessitated after Russia violated the MR Pact by annexing Bukovina in Romania), Labor re-joined the Jewish side and became anti-German again.

    So, it depends upon the time period to determine Labor’s attitude, and pre MR Pact, Labor was anti-German at the time of Chamberlain’s appeasement in Munich.

  255. Sean says:

    JFK was behind the Diem assassinations, with a key motive being that the Diems were undertaking unauthorized peace negotiations with the North Vietnamese.

    The murder of President John F. Kennedy was less than three weeks after the Diems death which shocked Americans. A person of Oswald’s avowed allegiance may have seen the death of the Diems’ as evidence that Fidel was next. Some time before this in September Castro had made a public statement reported in a New Orleans newspaper that Oswald read threatening retaliation against political assassination. “Let Kennedy and his brother Robert take care of themselves since they, too, can be victims of an attempt which will cause their death”. It was three weeks later that Oswald travelled to the Cuban consulate in Mexico City. Some files on what he said there are still secret. Kennedy had enthused about the Diems.

    REMARKS OF SENATOR JOHN F. KENNEDY AT THE CONFERENCE ON VIETNAM LUNCHEON IN THE HOTEL WILLARD, WASHINGTON, D.C., JUNE 1, 1956. his decline in public attention is due, I believe, to three factors: (1) First, it is due in part to the amazing success of President Diem in meeting firmly and with determination the major political and economic crises which had heretofore continually plagued Vietnam. (I shall say more about this point later, for it deserves more consideration from all Americans interested in the future of Asia). […] Military weakness, political instability or economic failure in the new state of Vietnam could change almost overnight the apparent security which has increasingly characterized that area under the leadership of Premier Diem. And the key position of Vietnam in Southeast Asia, as already discussed, makes inevitable the involvement of this nation’s security in any new outbreak of trouble. […] It is these four points, in my opinion, that represent America’s stake in Vietnamese security. And before we look to the future, let us stop to review what the Diem Government has already accomplished by way of increasing that security. As Premier Diem recently wrote a great friend of Vietnam, Senator Mansfield, “It is only in winter that you can tell which trees are evergreen.” And I am confident that if this nation demonstrates that it has not forgotten the people of Vietnam, the people of Vietnam will demonstrate that they have not forgotten us.

    Evidence that under Kennedy America was ruthless enough to have even friendly foreign leaders killed must have had quite an effect on Oswald.

    Live by the sword, and you better bear in mind that you are not sword proof. Robert F. Kennedy, personally in charge of the the CIA team tasked to get rid of Castro, was an idiot to think Mongoose/ ZR rifle ran as a government-wide operation run out of his own office, would not expose his brother to something similar.

  256. turtle says:
    @Ron Unz

    ridiculed all the JFK-as-peacenik worshipers

    Yeah.
    Watch the 1960 Nixon-Kennedy debates if in need of a memory refresh.
    Dueling Cold Warriors all the way.
    In fact, Kennedy accused the Eisenhower administration (and by extension, Nixon) of falling behind the Russians in missile capability, Kennedy’s notorious “missile gap” assertion.
    Dick Nixon, soft on Communism??? ROFLAO.

  257. @Ron Unz

    I think one reason lots of people have always dismissed the JFK conspiracy theories was that so many of the proponents seemed afflicted with JFK worship, seemingly interfering with their judgment, and making it impossible for them to believe that their great liberal hero had died at the hands of a lone gunman.

    Have you ever hunted or shot rifles at targets moving away from and below you, Ron? How did Oswald know the true ballistic range [and angle] between him [his rifle] and the limo [JFK]?

    My beef is with the impossibilities as they’re presented in the governmental [magic bullet] theory, and as they’ve been presented as such, for decades.

    I have a CD filled with famous speeches. Some of them are JFK’s. As he’s from an era before my time, I have very little to go by [on a personal level], but his speeches reverberate with me, because they hint at a more universal goal [instead of the madness we live in at the moment] and contain feelings and sentiments of hope. That’s all I know for sure about JFK.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @turtle
    , @peterAUS
    , @Sean
  258. @Ron Unz

    I may be a bit on the far side. Someone has to explore the limits, and it must be someone “conspiratorially minded” like me. I concede that the umbrella man clue is unconclusive, and, for that reason, I wouldn’t make it an argument for indicting Israel. It rather goes like this: since I take Israel’s guilt as beyond a reasonable doubt (as you do, don’t you), then the umbrella man becomes an additional item in the case. I take note that it doesn’t convince you, and I’m grateful for your frankness (besides being even more grateful that you published my article). One question is whether my hypothesis is true, another one is whether it is convincing; both are important.
    But after all, you and me don’t differ that much in our interpretation: you think Louie Witt decided on his own to “do a little heckling” to JFK, I think he was suggested, perhaps obliged to do so, and given the exact spot where to do it (by the same person who told Zapruder to go filming and where?). The transcript of Witt’s testimony (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo2/jfk4/witt.htm) gives me the impression of a man who is not really sure why he did it. That’s puzzling to me. If I add that he seemed completely disoriented after, I would be tempted to wonder whether he had been given a hypnotic suggestion. Just kidding!

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Iris
    , @Iris
    , @S
  259. @Thad Brody

    Interesting comment. Sound worth looking into it.

  260. @S

    The coincidence of July 16, 1999 is indeed impressive.
    About JFK Jr., I wrote this article:
    https://www.unz.com/article/the-broken-presidential-destiny-of-jfk-jr/

    • Replies: @Sean
  261. @Pincher Martin

    Yes, I find it funny. Many here would have been in the “right wing”, Kennedy hating camp if they were adults circa early 1960’s.

    • Replies: @turtle
  262. @CanSpeccy

    I saw a well constructed documentary showing the efefects of spatial disorientation on pilots, especially those who hadn’t completed their training for flying at night. It featured the JFK Jr case inter alia and didn’t even suggest an alternative explanation.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @CanSpeccy
  263. @Ron Unz

    If it wasn’t just Oswald with or without help from Cubans I was still reluctant to believe Israeli involvement in that period largely because I thought someone in Cabinet would have stopped it but now it occurs to me to entertain one hypothesis which may be unsustainable if all relevant facts are known. And that is that Ben Gurion resigned so he could conspire with a small clique to perform one great last service for Israel without hindrance and with minimal suspicion. For him to have acted with such passion doesn’t allow for my other objection which was that the Fench wer Israel’s suppliers and unlikely to be deterred.

    The CIA’s involvement perhaps turns on the case for CIA involvement in framing Sirhan Sirhan.

    As to LBJ I would like to know if there is a Robert Caro line on it.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  264. Sean says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    There was a strong streak of fecklessness in the Kennedy men. Robert Kennedy was notorious for trying to prove himself in various foolhardy ways ( he once walked 50 MILES because his brother the pres suggested it was a target for physical fitness). The last man who should have been in charge of the anti Castro campaign.

    https://nypost.com/2019/07/06/the-shocking-recklessness-that-killed-jfk-jr-and-2-of-his-friends/

    By the time he started college at Brown University in 1979, Kennedy was “a fully formed, thrill-seeking adrenaline addict,” Cohan writes. […] One friend was convinced he had a death wish. “He just took so many crazy chances.” Once Kennedy learned to fly, though, his flirtation with danger became a passionate affair. In 1996, Kennedy bought a “powered parachute,” a flimsy one-seat flying machine equipped with a huge fan that literally blew the contraption into the sky. “I was afraid to fly that thing,” says lyricist and rancher John Perry Barlow, a mentor who took Kennedy on his first piloting adventures. “That was a very treacherous aircraft.” Three years later, he smashed it into a tree on Martha’s Vineyard, shredding his ankle so badly that he needed surgery — and a metal plate — to repair it. Meanwhile, Kennedy earned his provisional pilot’s license and bought a plane, which he used to ferry himself and his new bride, Carolyn Bessette Kennedy, between New York and the family homes in New England — always, however, with a flight instructor at his side. Six weeks after the parachute accident, as soon as the cast came off his ankle, Kennedy was back in the air — ignoring doctors’ orders — to fly his Piper Saratoga, with his wife and her sister aboard, to a family wedding in Hyannisport, Mass. This time, he left the instructor on the ground. “He was really itching to get back up there,” Ginsberg says. “It was magnificently stupid,” says Hill.

    Great hair = rash bravado? It would explain why such total lack of baldness is quite rare, except as Lombraso said, among criminals. Male pattern baldness was linked to being gay in a recent genetic study.

  265. @Ron Unz

    Thanks for giving common sense a bit of a run.   I had to reassure myself that you were justified in publishing another of this author’s detailed fantasies by taking some pleasure in the interesting quotes he turns up. Still it is hard to accept that an article has any real value when its whole justification comes down to the author’s assertion that the occurrence almost simultaneously of the umbrella waving and the assassination was a coincidence which was impossible to believe could occur by mere chance.  May I offer a modest reward for whoever can come up with ten such impossible coincidences? The list can include the Secret Serviceman with a rifle in the front of the first SS car being a last minute ring in for one who had a hangover.  Also, I fabricate, Oswald saying to a colleague 10 minutes before the shooting, that he was going to the toilet and would be back in 15 minutes if anyone asked for him…. Yep, all very meaningful .

  266. @Ron Unz

    As I recall, that’s exactly the same problem with the Douglass book. Douglass also seems terrified of considering the most likely suspects, namely LBJ and Mossad.

    Yes. Douglass’s book was my first introduction to the JFK case. I corresponded with him and actually found a publisher for a French translation, which I helped getting done: https://www.amazon.fr/JFK-lindicible-James-W-Douglass-ebook/dp/B01M3UJ0C9/ref=sr_1_1?Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=0&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=0&__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85Z%C3%95%C3%91&qid=1574597496&refinements=p_27%3Adouglass%2Cp_28%3Al%27indicible&s=books&sr=1-1&unfiltered=1
    When, after reading Nelson’s book LBJ: The Mastermind…, I tried to exchange with Douglass on the topic, I got an abrupt and final answer.
    My guess is that those covering-up for Israel know that they have to cover-up for LBJ, for it is becoming widely known that LBJ’s trail leads directly to Israel. Witness all those Israeli articles proudly claiming he was a crypto-Jew.

    • Replies: @Iris
  267. @Iris

    Totally agree that Umbrella Man was a spotter and was likely there to signal the sniper stationed on the “grassy knoll ” which is supported by the eyewitness accounts , the forensics and the un-censored medical testimony . See : “Where did the fatal headshot come from?” jfk.hood.edu :
    “According to numerous doctors and nurses at Parkland Hospital …the fatal head shot was fired from the front and to the right of the President . If this is true , the most perfect angle could have been from the storm drain (since covered-up )located at the west end of the wooden stockade fence on the famous grassy knoll .”

  268. anarchyst says:

    I purchased and read “The Warren Commission Report on Assassinations” in its entirety at the tender young age, and even at that age, thought to myself, “what a crock of sh!t”…

  269. @Wizard of Oz

    I was still reluctant to believe Israeli involvement in that period largely because I thought someone in Cabinet would have stopped it

    Bad stuff happens to Cabinet members who get in the way of the Israelis–JFK stopped them (temporarily) from getting nukes, Forrestal tried to stop US support for the new state:

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Wizard of Oz
  270. Truth3 says:
    @lysias

    You’re an idiot. Do your homework… and eat that left over apple butter sandwich your mom made for you.

  271. Durruti says:
    @Iris

    The assassination of President Kennedy was a Coup d’Etat.
    For the coup to be a full operational success, it was necessary to smoothly open the White House to the plotters’ figurehead, LBJ.
    For the whole charade NOT to look like a coup d’état, JFK had to be shot by a convincing patsy.

    I guess the answer to your question is that in 1963, America was not the Banana Republic it has become today.

    That Agree thing doesn’t function!

    Yes. After the assassination of our last Constitutional President by the only world power combination, Zionist Financial Oligarchs, capable of destroying the most powerful Nation on the planet, and converting its citizens into Slaves, and brainwashing their progeny, America has become, in the parlance, a “Banana Republic.” NAFTA, and other programs have de-industrialized the Great American Heartland, seriously damaged its Farming (specially Family Farming), sector, and converted our youth into convenience store and gas station shopkeepers.

    There is only one conglomeration of power capable of committing these crimes, and controlling the Media & Education, so as to brainwash & effectively prevent the emergence of RESISTANCE.

    The Oligarchs of the New World Order are omnipotent.

    Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!” Ozymandias

    Agree!

    Even from its grave, America, and our Democratic Republic shall Rise Again!

    Durruti

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Johnny Walker Read
  272. Sparkon says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    I concede that the umbrella man clue is unconclusive, and, for that reason, I wouldn’t make it an argument for indicting Israel. It rather goes like this: since I take Israel’s guilt as beyond a reasonable doubt (as you do, don’t you), then the umbrella man becomes an additional item in the case…a man who is not really sure why he did it.

    No, that is forcing the evidence to fit your assumptions and conclusion.

    Testifying before the HSCA, Witt, said “I think if the Guinness Book of World Records had a category for people who were at the wrong place at the wrong time, doing the wrong thing, I would be No. 1 in that position, without even a close runner-up.”

    As has been noted above, it was raining in Dallas and Ft. Worth the morning of Nov. 22, 1963. If the rain had continued, there might well have been dozens of people with umbrellas standing along the motorcade route through Dealey Plaza, and the devious umbrella signalling scheme would have gone kaput.

    It’s nonsense. No pro assassins would do it that way for obvious reasons, nor would any pro leave incriminating evidence at the scene of the crime, à la BS artist James Files.

    I love how the fleas attract all the attention here while the tigers and lions in the room go unremarked.

    Who had the Wanted for Treason posters printed and distributed in Dallas during Kennedy’s visit to Texas? Was it Israelis, or was it the ultra right-wing John Birch Society and Gen. Walker?

    Who approved the route of Pres. Kennedy’s motorcade through Dealey Plaza? That route was in violation of Secret Service regulations which forbade slow, sharp turns by the Presidential motorcade. How could Israelis the Secret Service have failed to clear and secure high-rise buildings along the motorcade route, including the Texas School Book Depository?

    Was that an Israeli driving Pres. Kennedy’s limousine when it slowed to a virtual stop in the killing zone on Elm St., or was it Secret Service agent William Greer?

    Who illegally hijacked President Kennedy’s body from Parkland hospital at gunpoint? Were those Israeli agents, or were they Secret Service agents?

    Who actually performed the autopsy on JFK’s body once it had been flown to Bethesda? Were those U.S. military doctors, or were they Israelis?

    Israeli agents also must have arranged for the phony mail-order transaction with Klein’s Sporting Goods for the Mannlicher-Carcano so that the patsy Lee Harvey Oswald could be framed. Sure, It would be much easier for Israelis to finagle the paperwork than for some domestic outfit like the FBI. Uh huh.

    But if Oswald had really wanted to buy a rifle to kill JFK (whom he admired), he easily could have walked into any of dozens of gun shops in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, purchased a good .30 cal. weapon with his phony Hidell ID, and not have left an incriminating paper trail. He also would have had a chance to actually handle the weapon, and would not have purchased a worthless POS like the Mannlicher-Carcano, which had a defective telescopic sight that could not be adjusted and zeroed in, making accurate fire impossible with that particular weapon.

    The only obvious Israeli agent who might have been involved in this entire affair is LBJ’s illicit lover Mathilde Krim. Indeed, LBJ had the motive to see Kennedy killed since Johnson knew he was likely to be dumped from the Democratic ticket in 1964 because of the Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes scandals.

    Certainly, at least some Israelis had the motive to see Kennedy killed because of the nuclear issue, but the Jews were smart enough to let Johnson and his co-conspirators do the dirty deed.

    • Troll: Iris
  273. turtle says:
    @Daniel Rich

    they hint at a more universal goal [instead of the madness we live in at the moment] and contain feelings and sentiments of hope.

    Yes, you have got it right.
    The Berlin Wall was constructed in summer 1961.
    Kennedy gave his famous Berlin speech in summer 1963.
    Whatever his personal and/or political failings, JFK was a charismatic speaker and leader.
    People were tired of the Cold War, and living under the threat of nuclear annihilation.
    Kennedy personified the hope for a brighter future, the hope that the nightmare might end peacefully, and we could all “live happily ever after,” as with all “fairy tales.”

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  274. turtle says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Impeach Earl Warren!
    (remember those billboards?)

  275. geokat62 says:
    @Justvisiting

    Forrestal tried to stop US support for the new state

    Excerpt from, Who Killed James Forrestal? Was There A Cover-up?

    [MORE]

    STRONG MOTIVES, PRIME SUSPECTS

    When someone dies violenty and suspiciously, the usual question investigators want to answer is who had a murder motive. Did the deceased have enemies? Had he been threatened by anyone? Was there anyone who stood to gain from his death? If so, did the party or parties in question have anything in their past to indicate that they might be capable of murder, and did they have the opportunity to commit the crime?

    In Forrestal’s case, the answers are yes, yes, yes, and yes. For over a year he had been subject to a vilification campaign in the press the likes of which hardly any public official has ever had to endure in America. Leading the campaign, from the left and the right, respectively, were America’s two best-known and most powerful syndicated columnists, Drew Pearson and Walter Winchell. They painted Forrestal as a corrupt tool of Wall Street and the oil companies who put the interests of is cronies ahead of concern for the well being of refugees from European persecution. His big offense was that he was outspoken in his opposition to the creation of the state of Israel. The entire foreign policy establishment, led by Secretary of State Marshall, felt the same way, but the strong-willed Forrestal was the lightning rod for the supporters of Israel. He had received threatening telephone calls and he complained of being followed and electronically bugged. It has also been credibly reported that the Zionists attempted to blackmail him over the financial assistance that his investment banking firm, Dillon, Read, had given to the Nazis prior to WW II.

    One might argue that because Israel had already been recognized by the United States by the time Forrestal died, and because he had been removed from the Truman cabinet and discredited by his breakdown and hospitalization, he was no longer a threat to the supporters of Israel. But he was a man of prominence, wealth, and determination who intended to buy a newspaper and to write a book that threatened to expose a number Roosevelt-Truman administration secrets, especially related to the machinations that brought the United States into World War II and the wartime policies that advanced the interests of the Soviet Union. His voluminous diary was confiscated by the Truman White House and its full contents have never been revealed.

    Most important, though, it was feared that he would continue to work against the interests of Israel. The anonymous toward Forrestal continues to the present day in Zionist circles, who continue to characterize this most able and dedicated of public servants as an anti-semite and a nut.

    If anyone within the Truman White House had anything to do with Forrestal’s death, the most likely suspect would be the shadowy string-puller David Niles, a man with connections both to the Zionists and to the Communists. The previously mentioned author, Simpson, sees him as a likely suspect primarily because of his Communist affinities, and Simpson provides us with a laundry list of outrages perpetrated by the Communists in pursuit of world domination. But one should not overlook the ruthless record of the Israelis, from the assassinations of Lord Moyne and Count Benadotte and the bombing of the Kind David Hotel, all of which pre-dated the Forrestal death, right up to the more recent massacres in Qana and Jenin and the systematic assassination of Palestinian leaders.

    https://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=96

  276. CanSpeccy says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Re: spatial disorientation on pilots

    Yes, that`s a possibility. Just odd that John, Jr. managed to get himself disoriented just when someone might have wanted him deceased.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  277. Truth3 says:
    @Sparkon

    Sophistry in action people… watch this…

    Who approved the route of Pres. Kennedy’s motorcade through Dealey Plaza? That route was in violation of Secret Service regulations which forbade slow, sharp turns by the Presidential motorcade. How could Israelis the Secret Service have failed to clear and secure high-rise buildings along the motorcade route, including the Texas School Book Depository?

    See?

    Israeli Hasbarite Troll. Case closed.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  278. @turtle

    I agree that Kennedy personified the hope for a brighter future . I grew up in post – war England and remember passing bombed out ruins in Croydon near where I lived . We had free milk daily in our school but then were scared by strontium 90 contamination from atmospheric , nuclear weapons testing , we experienced food and petrol rationing and the cold war . Things looked grim and then Kennedy came along and he had very favourable press coverage , he and Jackie were portrayed as young , energetic and glamorous with a promise of a brighter future . Due to the time difference I remember hearing the news on the radio of his
    assassination on November 23 , 1963 at about 7pm following the Archers on the day of my 16th birthday , ever since I have been somewhat obsessed about how and why he was killed .

  279. Iris says:
    @Durruti

    God bless the American people, Durruti.

    May your beautiful nation get rid of the Zionist NeoCon cancer, and thrive in a more peaceful and fairer world. Best.

    • Agree: Durruti
  280. @Skeptikal

    I’m thinking that getting sucked into two major European wars that were none of our business might compete for top fateful tragedy. Or being torn apart in our bloodiest, for Americans, war, which aforementioned Mr. Lincoln had a whole lot to do with, amirite?

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
  281. @Truth3

    Good thing the Mossad never works in partnership with other intelligence agencies–because it is against their religion or something… 😉

  282. peterAUS says:
    @RichardM333

    Did I say “people watching”?

    …..JFK was killed by accident by a three-round-burst from a Secret Service AR-15….

    …AR-15 .223 automatic rifle, with a muzzle velocity so powerful that should a bullet strike a man’s chest it would blow his head off…

    This is even better than that “missile thing” above.

    Let’s see who can beat this one.

  283. Sean says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    Yes, some women are not bothered, but most do not like it. All women went mad for John jr who had a freakishly thick head of hair. And in addition to being no thinker, he was also extraordinarily foolhardy by Land Sea and Air. So were other beaver pelted Kennedy men, such as Ted driving in the dark across a dangerous bridge, or Robert going around with no real security despite what had happened to John. Or JFK making a spoof assasination home movie then exposing himself in an open top limo motorcade, despite the fact that several weeks before Castro had publicly threatened to have the JFK and RFK assassinated in retaliation for the Kennedy brothers directing the CIA to do the same to the Cuban head of state. Indeed, it would seem that the main problem for a certain foreign intelligence service was to get to the Kennedys before their Lemming tendencies got the better of them.

  284. peterAUS says:
    @Daniel Rich

    Ah…this could be the third:

    ….How did Oswald know the true ballistic range [and angle] between him [his rifle] and the limo [JFK]?….

  285. S says:
    @Thad Brody

    His (Joseph P Kennedy Jr’s] death seems to have been very suspicious, to me. I would guess that it was also an assassination, though its hard for me to state how probable that is. Wikipedia makes a point of mentioning that the filming plane following Joseph jr.’s plane belonged to a unit run by a son of FDR.

    You make an intriguing point. The official investigation, though ruling out many things, was indeterminate. It was suggested at the time that faulty wiring may have been the cause.

    It’s reasonable to think Joseph P Kennedy Sr’s political ambitions and hopes also included his daughters, and not ‘only’ his sons.

    His fourth child, Kathleen Kennedy, is pictured below on May 6, 1944 (along with Joseph Kennedy Jr) at her wedding. Kathleen married William Cavendish of the aristocratic and politically powerful Cavendish family of Britain. The wedding was short lived as William would be killed in action in Belgium on September 9, 1944, less than a month after Joseph Kennedy Jr’s death.

    By 1948, she had become romantically involved with Peter Wentworth-Fitzwilliam, a peer with a seat on the British House of Lords. That same year while on a plane trip to Paris (it’s said) to see Joseph P Kennedy Sr for his consent for her marriage to Fitzwilliam, her plane would go down in a storm related plane crash, killing both her and Fitzwilliam.

    Planes and the Kennedy’s have a bad history together.

    The siblings Joseph P Kennedy Jr and Kathleen Kennedy deaths both involved planes. The grandson John F Kennedy Jr died in a plane crash similar (ostensably) to Kathleen’s as it was weather related.

    Another grandson (through JFK’s brother ‘Ted’) of Joseph Kennedy Sr, the Connecticut state politician Edward Kennedy Jr., missed by ten minutes being onboard the highly fatal Flight 90 in Washington DC.

    In 1982, his mother Joan revealed that Kennedy missed by just ten minutes being aboard Air Florida Flight 90, which crashed into the Potomac River on January 13 of that year, killing 74 people. Kennedy was delayed on the drive to the airport and missed the flight.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Cavendish,_Marchioness_of_Hartington

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cavendish,_Marquess_of_Hartington

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_M._Kennedy_Jr.

    • Replies: @Thade Brody
  286. Ron Unz says:

    I’m pretty busy with other things, but I think there’s one final point I’d like to make in this thread…

    As I’ve discussed above, there seems zero evidence that “the Umbrella Man” had any connection to the JFK assassination, and I think the possibility is extremely unlikely. But I think a more important point is “Who Cares?!”

    I’ve emphasized that I’m very much a newcomer to JFK Conspiracy matters, and as such, I’ve noticed something rather odd. It seems to me that a huge fraction of all the JFK discussion focuses on the mechanics of the assassination, namely who was standing where and that sort of thing. But aside from the simple but important question of whether Oswald was a lone gunman or whether there is sufficient evidence that there indeed was a “conspiracy,” those matters seem totally insignificant, except in so far as they point to the identity of the ultimate organizers rather than just the particular low-level participants. Otherwise, they’re merely a distraction, and perhaps an intentional one.

    It seems clear that the whole “Umbrella Man” nonsense falls into that category. As in the case with various other major “conspiracies,” my own (highly-speculative) “conspiracy theory” is that individuals associated with the actual conspiracy (if it did exist) have deliberately promoted nonsense like “Umbrella Man” to decoy and distract JFK conspiracy activists, and perhaps make them look gullible and ridiculous.

    After all, the more time people spend talking about an umbrella that fires poison darts, the less time they’ll focus on the serious evidence pointing to e.g. LBJ or Mossad. Moreover, those important latter issues will be lost in a mountain of poison-dart-type nonsense, which will drive off any casual readers who begin exploring the topic.

  287. Iris says:
    @Daniel Rich

    When reading books on JFK/RFK/MLK’ slaughter, the first thing that’s jumps off all those pages is the unwillingness of the overall establishment [fill in the blanks] to dig for, and find, the truth.

    You are being far too kind and indulgent on the political Establishment.

    When studying the tragedy of President Kennedy’s assassination, one finds that an extremely large number of parties (over 50) had publicly proven foreknowledge of the assassination. One of those documented “insiders” was drug-addict Rose Cherami, a drug runner for Jack Rubinstein who was featured in the JFK film.

    One also finds that an extremely large number of key witnesses (over 100) died a violent and untimely death within a short time period after the assassination.

    The odds against these witnesses being dead by February 1967 were calculated for a 1973 UK Sunday Time article, and were found to be one hundred thousand trillion to one.

  288. enstien says:
    @Duke84

    Sir, Have you not heard of the “magic bullet” explanation presented by the warren commision?

    • Replies: @Duke84
  289. @Sparkon

    the devious umbrella signalling scheme

    Obviously you haven’t read my article, for I explicitely said I don’t believe in this scheme
    For the rest, it seems you have the answer to you own questions:

    the Jews were smart enough to let Johnson and his co-conspirators do the dirty deed.

    But they had their own men too: the Dallas Citizens Council, Ruby, …

  290. Iris says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    My guess is that those covering-up for Israel know that they have to cover-up for LBJ, for it is becoming widely known that LBJ’s trail leads directly to Israel. Witness all those Israeli articles proudly claiming he was a crypto-Jew.

    Israelis in the US have been very busy covering LBJ’s tracks.

    This webpage entitled ” Our first Jewish President Lyndon Johnson” was still available six months ago.

    http://www.5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  291. @Ron Unz

    After all, the more time people spend talking about an umbrella that fires poison darts, the less time they’ll focus on the serious evidence pointing to e.g. LBJ or Mossad.

    Maybe so, but not in my case: my article is all about Mossad (well, I prefer to say Israel, because I believe such operation are outside of Mossad strictly speaking).

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  292. geokat62 says:
    @Ron Unz

    e.g. LBJ or Mossad.

    More likely, LBJ and Mossad.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  293. Ron Unz says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    Maybe so, but not in my case: my article is all about Mossad (well, I prefer to say Israel, because I believe such operation are outside of Mossad strictly speaking).

    Sure, but there’s always a serious risk of contaminating strong evidence with weak evidence….

    Suppose you can find ten arguments for something being true, three of which are very strong and seven of which are very weak. I think it’s better to entirely exclude the very weak arguments, or at most mention them in an aside as being merely speculative.

    Otherwise, you clutter up and distract from the strong arguments so that readers are less likely to notice them. Furthermore, critics will naturally focus on your weakest arguments and ridicule them, thereby raising doubts about your credibility with regard to your very strong arguments.

    I think the whole “Umbrella Man” theory is an extremely weak argument, and the visuals and fanciful speculation it allows make it a particular distraction. And it really wouldn’t surprise me if this were intentional in the case of some advocates.

  294. Skeptikal says:
    @Sparkon

    Per Gore Vidal, who came from a political family and was himself a DC insider, Jackie was no slouch when it came to sleeping with whoever pleased her.
    Why should she be assumed to be a naive little ingenue who didn’t know the score?
    Pul-lease.
    Americans are so prudish and self-righteous, while running the most depraved, but also deprived, sex-addled society on earth.

    This sleeping around business is only relevant to the extent that it impacted national security.
    Which it may have done in the case of Judtih Exner.
    But the shoe was on the other foot when it came to Mary Pinchot Meyer.
    It is 99% sure that she paid with her life for her affair with JFK.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  295. Skeptikal says:
    @Ron Unz

    You repeat your earlier argument, which is still a variation on ad hominem plays. And still weak.

    Since you own this blog you can (mis)use anyone or anything as a “hook.”

    Regarding your “analysis” of the JFK assassination and those who have tried to figure out what really happened, I reckon that you have started to feel some kind of heat and have decided to start to cover your a– in the new environment.

    This would also explain why you are suddenly appointing yourself the designator of “conspiracy theorists,” truly a craven stance.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain
  296. Sean says:
    @Daniel Rich

    Moving towards is not easier than away to shoot at, and it must be remembered that waiting until secret service agents and JFK having their backs to Oswald before starting to shoot would mean he could afford a miss or two without coming under immediate fire as long . It is universally acknowledged he did not take the first shot until after the limo had passed, whereupon he apparently had a ricochet off of a light post for the first shot which was earlier that thought meaning he had more tim while he reloaded and tracked the limo. He was not shooting at a zig zagging gazelle. The problems from Oswald’s position would also be there even more so for other snipers’ possible locations to fire from.

    Only the Grassy Knoll (virtually impossible to get away from) offered anything like a level trajectory and there was a black couple sitting on a bench right under there. They knocked over a soda bottle which shattered loudly in the aftermath

    It is pretty well established that the top of Kennedy’s head was shot off while the car was virtually halted because the driver (rather elderly for such a job) panicked, and thus the real magic of Oswald’s penultimate shot was to make Kennedy a sitting duck. He had already been hit in the upper back, which is where one would expect if it was all Oswald (the magic back wound would probabally have left Kennedy a paraplegic had he survived)

  297. Issar says:
    @Stonehands

    He’s not at a loss for words. He is calmly explaining what he saw. He pops a weird smile at the end. Then looks nervous. Maybe some people act like this when they are aghast. Maybe some act like this when they are satisfied– or nervous about their satisfaction. It’s open to interpretation. More needs to be known about Zapruder.

  298. Iris says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    I may be a bit on the far side. Someone has to explore the limits, and it must be someone “conspiratorially minded” like me..

    The JFK assassination is similar to other, poorly-executed conspiracies and false flags: after carefully studying the facts and the events, a rational mind understands straightaway that the “official version” is impossible.

    We don’t know for certain what happened, but we do know for sure what did NOT happen, and that’s the impossible story told by the Warren commission.

    I may write to you that I am a 4-m high giant, with 3 eyes, and that I won 18 times at the lottery.
    You would not care, you would just think to yourself that I am a liar and move to something more interesting.

    But if one finds out that the most promising President, of the most important country in the world, had been killed just before this country getting addicted to a string of foreign wars which negatively impact all of humankind, how could one be indifferent?

    We are not “conspirationists”: we are just ethical, responsible human beings with collective cultural values.

    On a side note, Pierre Pean, who is arguably the most prominent and respected French investigative journalist, mentions that in May 1976, President Gerald Ford admitted to President Giscard that “the assassination had been planned “, but that the Warren commission had not been able to find out who planned it.

  299. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Great hair = rash bravado? It would explain why such total lack of baldness is quite rare, except as Lombraso said, among criminals. Male pattern baldness was linked to being gay in a recent genetic study.

    Male pattern baldness affects most men by the age of 35, and by 50, almost all men have had a significant amount of hair loss.

    I think even most men who technically wouldn’t be characterized as experiencing MPB don’t retain their adolescent and early adulthood hairlines. There’s generally some hairline recession, even among those with full heads of hair.

    Since MPB affects the vast majority of men to varying degrees, you have to be more specific when talking about it.

    Did Lombraso control for age?

    • Replies: @Sean
  300. To Ron Unz, geokat soundly offered : “More likely, LBJ and Mossad.”

    Hey geo!

    Could LBJ have acted to overturn an election minus approvals of the following:
    1. The Pentagon including Joint Chiefs of staff and what Vincent Salandria early on tagged as the “War Making Machine”?
    2. The Secret Service was connected to LBJ administration & in his scientific book, “Best Evidence,” David Lifton offered the conclusion that it was impossible for the Secret Service to have done it’s assignment which was to protect JFK’s life.
    3. The CIA, who employed Israel fanatic, James Jesus Angleton, as chief of Counterintelligence, and held firm in support of his boss, Allen Dulles, to whom President Kennedy showed the D.C. exit door. Haha. (argh). 1960-ish Deep State anyone?

    Now, I move to look at the Mossad role in JFK’s assassination which ought not occur in isolation to feasibility.
    1. As Ron Unz has endorsed, the work of Michael Collins Piper is something that Israel, Amerika’s ZOG & Corporate Media,😟 and…, even acclaimed author of the simmering book “JFK & The Unspeskable,” James Douglass, let go, unspoken.

    Lastly, a question. Why trash Laurent Guyenot’s interesting take on the weird “Umbrella Man” when the W. Bush Neocons & cooperative agent, Zelikow, skipped over the sunshine action of the “Dancing Israelis”?

    Peter Falk, the late-great Jewish actor, was TV’s nationally popular Detective Columbo, and he would consistently act to prevent his case assignments from getting sidetracked by, for example, Ron Unz’s mighty & respected intelligence. 🙂

    Thanks, geo!

    • Agree: Daniel Rich
    • Replies: @geokat62
  301. CanSpeccy says:
    @Iris

    This webpage entitled ” Our first Jewish President Lyndon Johnson” was still available six months ago.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20190909035548/

    It is still available via the wayback machine, here:

    http://www.5tjt.com/our-first-jewish-president-lyndon-johnson-an-update/

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  302. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    I think the whole “Umbrella Man” theory is an extremely weak argument,

    What exactly is the Umbrella Man Theory and why is it weak? Or if there is more than one Umbrella Man Theory, are they all weak? I don’t see how you can dispense with a piece of evidence without first showing that every possible interpretation of it is “weak” to the point of being unworthy of further consideration.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  303. Iris says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    I concede that the umbrella man clue is inconclusive, and, for that reason, I wouldn’t make it an argument for indicting Israel.

    President Kennedy was murdered by hired guns from the Chicago mob.

    James Files, aka James Sutton, confessed in a taped interview in 1994, that he shot President Kennedy’s right temple from the Grassy Knoll. He used a Remington Fireball weapon and a frangible bullet with mercury content.

    The main sniper, however, was his boss Charles “Chuck” Nicoletti, who was firing from the Dal-Tex Building. Files only shot as a last resort because Nicoletti had missed the President’s head.

    The Dal-Tex Building was the real “snipers nest” of the JFK assassination. There is ballistic evidence upon which JFK truth-researchers largely agree: the Dal-Tex Building offers the only possible trajectories for the President’s back and rear head wound, and for the missed shot on Main Street.

    Control of access and egress to the main shooting location was crucial to allow not only a “successful” assassination, but also an efficient cover-up of its aftermath. So, who owned and controlled the real Snipers’ Nest?

    – The Dal-Tex Building had seven floors. Zapruder’s offices occupied the 4th/5th floors. Zapruder was a Zionist and a high-degree mason.
    He became famous for filming the assassination in fatal circumstances where the press coach which usually preceded and filmed the presidential limousine had been strangely dismissed.

    -The co-owner of the Dal-Tex Building was David Weisblat, a major financier of the Anti-Defamation League, with ties to Israeli Intelligence and key part of the Israeli lobby.

    – The other rumoured co-owner of the Dal-Tex Building was Morris D. Jaffe, a Dallas businessman of Jewish-Hispanic heritage with close ties to LBJ, who became rich thanks to controversial deals with the US army,

    – Jaffe was the son-in-law of Sam Bloom, an influential Jewish member of the Dallas Citizen Council who was instrumental in defining the motorcade’s Trade Mart destination and bringing it to the ambush set up at Dealy Plaza.

    – Sam Bloom later exerted pressure onto Dallas mayor and the DPD to handle Oswald publicly in front of the press, thus enabling his execution by Jacob Leon Rubinstein.

    – A number of firms in the Dal-Tex Building used the phone number of one Morty Freedman, who was active in the Zionist community and who was behind the Dallas Uranium & Oil Company, which was possibly helping Israel manufacture weapons. His offices were at the 3rd floor of the Dal-Tex Building with unobstructed view to the President’s limousine.

    – Morty Freedman was the brother-in-law of Sam Bloom.

    Just like in the case of the 9/11 American Holocaust and control of the WTC, Zionist involvement in the JFK assassination headquarter building simply defies the odds.

  304. @Iris

    Iris,

    Would you care to recommend 2 or 3 titles on this subject, to a JFK neophyte? To date, I have read Douglass’ book and Russ Baker’s Family of Secrets, both excellent but I’d like to read some other well researched books on the death of JFK.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Iris
  305. geokat62 says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Lastly, a question. Why trash Laurent Guyenot’s interesting take on the weird “Umbrella Man” when the W. Bush Neocons & cooperative agent, Zelikow, skipped over the sunshine action of the “Dancing Israelis”?

    Hey, Chuck.

    I think Ron gave a very good explanation in Comment #301.

    Keep on bussin’, Chuck!

  306. @Jefferson Temple

    Hi J.T.!

    Although I was not asked for a recommendation, essential first read is David Lifton’s “Best Evidence.” Try to obtain a copy which includes photos which backup the best evidence? Best to you!

    • Replies: @Jefferson Temple
  307. Skeptikal says:
    @Ron Unz

    “that so many of the proponents seemed afflicted with JFK worship, seemingly interfering with their judgment, and making it impossible for them to believe that their great liberal hero had died at the hands of a lone gunman.”‘

    You do make a lot of assumptions, you know.
    YOu have no idea what I thought, when, why my assessment of Kennedy might have been or how it might have evolved as a result of information I was exposed to.
    You are just slinging around labels. And of course, people who have “heros” are assumed to be adolescent, unsophisticated. And that is how you are using it. People who have this “great liberal hero” can’t think straight, like grown men can.
    Actually it so happens that I was 16 when Kennedy died. Like everyone else I was shocked, but I was not particularly political, being principally concerned with my own college applications and tests, like most teens at the time who were headed for college. We were the first baby boom cohort, and the pressure on us was starting to build, as there were not enough college places for the coming horde and we were constantly reminded of this fact.
    You of course were a year old, but hey, perhaps Kennedy was your “great liberal hero”?? It would be no less absurd than your supposition about me.
    Or perhaps your parents’ “great liberal hero”? Is that what this is about?
    In fact, I have no idea what this phrase means, other than its use by you as a general insult.
    I certainly am not a “liberal.”

    I barely recall any political events of the Kennedy years. I do recall the day the Test Ban Treaty was signed. I was driving around with my boyfriend when the news of the signing of the Treaty came over the car radio and I recall feeling a huge wave of relief. I had been raised in the “duck and cover” fifties.
    This does not mean that JFK was my “great liberal hero.”
    Of course the scurrilous tidbits that came to light after JFK’s death were titillating. Also info about JfK’s back pain and consequent drug use. Etc. etc. All the dirt was highlighted. On hindsight I think highlighting that stuff was partly a way for the country to discount and trivialize what had happened, to deal with the shock. Even to enjoy tearing JFK down so as to think that his murder didn’t matter—JFK was just a skirt chaser and druggie anyway. No loss. And, as you are probably too young to recall, thoughts about JFK were soon drowned out in the country’s 24/7 preoccupation with the Vietnam War.
    The first book I read about JFK was really the first time I seriously questioned the official story of the assassination or even thought that much about it: James Douglass’s JFK and the Unspeakable, recommended by a friend.
    The book was published in 2008. It was a new era. Post- 9/11.
    The obvious falsity of the 9/11 official narrative jolted many into thinking differently about the Ur-“official narrative,” of Dallas. In fact, I think that the growth of a vocabulary for questioning the 9/11 narrative—and the fact that alternate evidence and hypotheses could now be read and openly discussed on the Internet—gave many a new way to talk about Dallas, and also the Kennedy presidency. In the context of: Cui bono?

    I accept as reliable the evidence presented by Douglass concerning JFK’s attempts to end the Cold War by acknowledging the need to coexist with the Soviets. This book did change my view of JFK as a president who, despite his many faults and skirt chasing, was trying to get the country and the world on a safer track while himself being on a learning curve (as Douglass shows). I believe this effort also lay behind JFK’s documented initiative to create a safe back=channel for communication with Castro. Which was eagerly accepted. Douglass also puts the steel strike in the context of the ways that JFK and RFK were shaking up business as usual and creating powerful enemies, also how the steel industry was part of the MIC. Douglass explains the Vietnam context and the day-to-day communications. Also Lodge’s machinations, creating more murk in DC.

    Commissioned by the Maryknoll Foundation, this book was the first and is still the main source of my thinking more deeply about JFK and the meaning of his presidency and assassination. And my conclusion that his assassination was fateful for the USA: He did try to change the direction the country and the world was going for the better, less conflictual, less nuclear. Dallas in so many ways lurched the country onto a destructive course that it is still on. You can label that sense “great liberal heroism” but I think it is supported by plenty of evidence. Hence is not “idealism.” For many who experienced the Kennedy assassination and the ascent of Johnson, the succeeding decades and presidencies have had a slight sense of the country’s being on a long detour that one can’t get off. That is not “great liberal heroism.” That is a natural reaction to what one can look back on as a watershed event, or perhaps like the planet being hit off-course by a giant meteor.

    But you are too young to understand this in connection with JFK and can interpret such a sense only as a sign of misplaced idealism. You are happy with your phrase whereby you express your sense of superiority over those you define as having a “great liberal hero.” You are ludicrously off-target using it on me. Perhaps your “great liberal hero” is predicated on the existence of a “great conservative hero.” Who is that?

    I was impressed with and supported your campaign to make tuition at Harvard free, which was the first time I ever heard of you. Your use of this g.l.h. phrase betrays a (to me) surprising superficiality and conceit that, along with the even worse repeated resort (in this thread, at any rate) to the “conspiracy theorist” meme, negatively surprises me. The latter usage makes you sound like a CIA stooge. I think you are smarter than that, so what gives? These are two ad hominam spitballs, pretty useless in genuine intellectual combat about JFK’s actual role in our history or about anything else, but unpleasant when discovered sticking to one.

    • Agree: Daniel Rich
  308. @Skeptikal

    This sleeping around business is only relevant to the extent that it impacted national security.

    In everyday life most folks who “sleep around” outside their marriage have lower moral standards than the folks who don’t. That means they are more likely to cheat in business deals or engage in other unsavory activities.

    I view it as a “red flag”, not totally guaranteeing the person is untrustworthy in other matters, but a strong indicator their integrity is an open question.

    Most politicians, of course, are pathological liars–it goes with the job description–so in their case it probably is not providing new information.

    • Replies: @Daniel Rich
  309. S says:

    So John Kennedy being heckled with Chamberlain’s umbrella at the same time as being assassinated under Ben-Gurion’s order does strike me as both plausible and significant, as a sort of cryptic signature by the Zionist-Irgun mafia.

    John Kennedy had personally met with Ben Gurion while a US congressman at least as early as October, 1951, as pictured below in Ben Gurion’s Jerusalem home. Seated between the two is Franklin Delano Roosevelt Jr.

    Considering the company one can only imagine that the subject of Joseph P Kennedy Sr wasn’t brought up except cursily.

  310. AceDeuce says:
    @Duke84

    There are people, including Jack O’Halloran and Jerome Corsi, who say otherwise.

  311. christoso says:
    @Iris

    In that above television interview, Zapruder says that he arrived at Dealy Plaza early so that he could find a good place to stand where he could film the motorcade. Why then did he choose a spot right behind a large highway sign which obstructed his view of the approaching limousine?Had he placed himself where the “umbrella man” was standing, he would have had a glorious unobstructed view of the President and his wife, as they would have driven directly in front of him.

    We might then ask, did Zapruder have some other motive than making the best home movie he could of this historic Presidential visit with his newly acquired Kodak super 8 movie camera? Was there a reason why he was standing behind the sign instead of in front of it?

    Step back and consider for a moment the usefulness which the film Zapruder was about to shoot might have for the conspirators planning this event. They actually had a very foreseeable problem with their plan to place the patsy Oswald in the book depository far behind the limousine while the real assassins fired their shots from the front and side. There might be conflicting stories from eyewitnesses. Worse still, there might be other photos. A film of the event that could be used to support the official narrative of a lone gunman would be invaluable. This is exactly the film that Zapruder would have produced had the shots been fired just a split second earlier. Instead, he filmed the worst possible thing, and the film was suppressed for years, in spite of its having been edited to remove the most incriminating parts.

    So what, you might well ask, does all this have to do with “umbrella man”? If Zapruder was in fact preparing to make a film of the assassination where the fatal moment was hidden from view, would it not have been helpful to have an assistant standing with some large visible object at exactly the point where he and his object were out of view behind the road sign? This object would then be a perfect marker for the kill zone, where the actual shots would be hidden from Zapruder’s camera. Why not use an umbrella. It is portable, can be held up in the air where it is easily visible, and one can justify its presence on a sunny day by claiming it was an attempt to protest the Kennedy clan’s sins of appeasement via the analogy with Chamberlin’s signature umbrella.

    The conspirators certainly knew that shooting someone in a moving vehicle is an uncertain business. The speed of Kennedy’s limo had already been reduced by the hairpin turn, yet the assassins waited until the moment just before the limo passed behind the sign to begin firing. The first shot is from the front, leaving a hole in the windshield of the limousine. We can see Kennedy bend forward clutching his throat just as he passes behind the sign. Witnesses have claimed that the limo then slowed to a crawl. This moment would have been obscured by the sign. Immobilized by the frontal shot to his spine, far easier than a shot from the side, Kennedy is unable to duck like John Connelly, and is fatally shot at close range. Witnesses have claimed that “umbrella man” was opening and closing his umbrella until the fatal shot was fired.

    • Replies: @Iris
  312. Iris says:
    @Jefferson Temple

    Hello Jefferson;

    If you are interested in the events and facts of the assassination, you can start with watching the 8-episode video series: “The Men Who Killed Kennedy”.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Killed_Kennedy

    It is a quick way to browse most aspects of the events, is accurate at 80%, and is remarkable for a freedom of speech and critical thinking that is now defunct in Western intellectual life.

    There are a number of excellent JFK truth researchers who have each, in their books or publications, shed a fundamental light on one or more aspects of the assassination:

    – David Lifton has terminally debunked the official cover-up by explaining how JFK’s body was tampered with before its autopsy.
    – Jim Marrs has explained the Dealy Plaza Crossfire.
    – Pr Cyril Wecht, emeritus professor in forensics, has completely trashed the WC’s “magic bullet” theory.
    – Pr David Mantik and Pr Michael Chesser have proven that JFK’s skull X-Rays were tampered with; they still managed to demonstrate he was shot twice in the head.
    – Colonel Fletcher Prouty provided a precious insight on the military organisation aspects.

    If you want to know about the botched inquiry, and the systematic, deliberate, relentless institutional cover-up, Attorney Jim Garrison’s interview to PlayBoy is a must-read:

    http://22november1963.org.uk/jim-garrison-playboy-interview

    Now, if a real-life friend with little time on their hands asked me the same question, I would tell them to listen straightaway to James “Sutton” Files confession.

    http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/index1.htm

    James Files’ confession is compelling, and its details corroborated by other actors of the Dallas tragedy.
    Either he really is the one who shot JFK, or at minimum was very closely associated with whoever did it.

    His story is very credible: it convinced Jim Marrs.
    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23187-jim-marrs-comments-on-the-james-files-story-has-any-of-it-been-debunked/

    James Files’ confession was given on tape, and further detailed in a book.

    The other advice I would give you is that you must read a very recent book by Christopher Fulton: ” The Inheritance – Poisoned Fruit of the JFK’s assassination”.

    https://cmfulton.com/

    Published 25 years after James Files’ confession, it brings further proof that this confession was true, how the conspiracy was organised by planning a drill that went out of control, and explains why John Kennedy Jr was murdered in July 1999.

  313. Hey geo!

    Ron’s concluding sentences, comment # 301, appeared to me as something Arthur Conan Doyle might have written while conveying a splendid Holmes & Watson “give & take” conversation.

    But the “Umbrella Man’s” quirky protest story, along with a hat tip frown upon Chamberlain,🤔would have resonated with the Englishman Doyle, and Laurent Guyenot’s drizzle output would not be collared to the absent Dallas clouds.

    Thanks, geo; you did justice to Ron. Fyi, am thrilled Laurent holds AZC to ground & he ain’t bussin’ outta here.🙂

  314. Alden says:
    @Durruti

    Sean Ono Lennon son of John and Yoko is fund raising for Tulsi Gabbard.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Durruti
  315. Iris says:
    @christoso

    This object would then be a perfect marker for the kill zone, where the actual shots would be hidden from Zapruder’s camera

    Do you mean that Umbrella Man would have been a fixed reference point, against which the main sniper behind the limousine could have assessed the future position of his moving target for aiming?

  316. @Iris

    Iris, I love you❤️, but this is a tad inaccurate, “David Lifton has terminally debunked the official cover-up by explaining how JFK’s body was tampered with before its autopsy.”

    With Secret Service & Dallas P.D. escort, the death limousine was rushed to the Parkland Hospital Emergency Room where doctors assessed his head wound and affirmed that a frontal throat shot had killed JFK.

    In addition, Parkland E.R. doc testified how JFK’s rear head was blown away. 😩 I see how this thread now develops, and few commenters seem aware how the Secret Service either failed to control President Kennedy’s initial & official wound assessment, or maybe this was the point where a diabolical & crazy cognitive dissonance attack was launched against shock & awed America. 🤔

    At any rate, if an objective person peruses David Lifton’s “Best Evidence,” they will learn how the Bethesda Naval Hospital autopsy flagrantly contradicted that which Parkland doctors observed & reported their stilted findings to the public.😈

    Would make terrific Winter reading, Iris, and Mr. Lifton’s book is compellingly scientific to arouse even the busy Ron Unz’s will to learn.🤗 Thanks & Glory to Jesus Christ!

    P.S.: In “Best Evidence” one will learn how the “Magic Bullet,” in pristine condition, was discovered on the Parkland Hospital floor hallway, and the “finders/keepers” conveniently said the bullet fell off of JFK’s gurney on which the dead president entered the hospital. Was like the Arab passport found on NYC street when Towers exploded. (zzZigh)

    • Replies: @Iris
  317. Incitatus says:

    Well, I’ve been much too busy to comment on this thread. But it’s amazing – given all the attention to ‘Umbrella Man’ – that none mentioned ‘Nose-Pick Man’, filmed flagrante delicto Dealey Plaza 22 Nov 1963. Since infamously expunged from the Zapruder record. Parallels with similar conspiratorial nasal signals – Katangan kleenex with Patrice Lumumba 5 Sep 1960; APC convoy two finger nose-picks for both Diem Brothers 2 Nov 1963; Lorraine Motel janitors MLK 4 Apr 1968; Ambassador Hotel kitchen-help RFK 6 Jun 1968; Fairfield NJ airport staff 16 Jul 1999 JFK Jr.). All give pause to recorded history – yes, it must be Deep (Deep-Deep-Deep) State!

    As such, they should be recorded in infamy. Or, at very least, on the Unz Review.

    Live long and prosper.

  318. Clint Eastwood’s new movie entitled “Richard Jewell” about the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Park bombing is about to be released , never thought about it until today but it has been suggested that the bombing has all the elements of another psyop/hoax/false flag/staged deception such as crisis actors , fake blood , etc.

  319. @Incitatus

    Haha. M.I.A., but now InZitatus ain’t busy, and opined, the usual shallow way, ahhh: “All give pause to recorded history – yes, it must be Deep (Deep-Deep-Deep) State!”

    Haha. Then he stormed off to rebuild the Book Depository building & museum. 😂

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  320. @Justvisiting

    In everyday life most folks who “sleep around” outside their marriage have lower moral standards than the folks who don’t. That means they are more likely to cheat in business deals or engage in other unsavory activities.

    Being both a man and a monkey, I do face a lot of problems.

    To top it all off, I also do business.

    So, I’m one, big, giant red flag in your world.

    In business, I’m very trustworthy, as it evolves around the core of trusting your [business] partner/s.

    Throw in a woman and the ape takes over.

    I am fully aware of both aspects and accountable for all my actions, but to say I have lower standards than others [including JFK]] is something I don’t agree with. The genetically engraved, testosterone driven urge to multiply is incredibly strong [even if there’s no offspring as a result of those actions] and what about the women who happily spread their legs to receive a [married] man’s ‘payload?’

    It does take two to tango.

    • Replies: @Alden
  321. Iris says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Dear Mr O.

    JFK was long before my time; I did not read the books in the chronological order they were published.

    The massive exit wound at the back of the skull, and the pristine “Magic Bullet” (found on a stretcher just after Jack Ruby had visited the hospital) are arguments all JFK truth researchers unanimously agree upon and promote in their writings.

    David Lifton’s main contribution, and one original and completely specific to his work in my opinion, is how he understood that President Kennedy’s body was transported in an anonymous body bag and dropped at Bethesda by helicopter before the official casket arrived, in order to have enough time to tamper with the wounds. This manoeuvre in itself is sufficient proof of the conspiracy. Best.

    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Alden
  322. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Hi Chuckles,

    “MIA”? Don’t know bout the rest of your post (are you sober)?

    Ever think you’re being played by pensioned scum-bags with 501c3 charities?

    Stay well, Chuck.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  323. @Iris

    Hello Iris, I wonder if you have also read The Last Investigation by Gaeton Fonzi? I read it quite some time ago and found it to be very interesting and also useful in assessing other books on the JFK coup. Cheers
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1638932.The_Last_Investigation

    • Replies: @Iris
  324. @Alden

    That is good to hear and a nice touch. John was a peacemaker and was almost certainly killed for the threat that his great influence posed to The War Machine.

    • Agree: Durruti
  325. @Incitatus

    And then along comes ass-pick man Incitatus, AKA the disingenuous old queen. I suppose that it’s never deep, deep, deep enough for old queens.

    • LOL: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Incitatus
  326. Durruti says:
    @Alden

    Sean Ono Lennon son of John and Yoko is fund raising for Tulsi Gabbard.

    Thanks. It is good to know that John & Yoko raised their son well. They gave him love, courage, and a conscience.

    Good begets good.

  327. @Iris

    Hi Iris!

    In Mr. Lifton’s “Best Evidence,” there is no mention of the Magic Boulette being found upon Parkland floor “just after Jack Ruby had visited the hospital) …” Nonetheless, thanks, & that is interesting news to me!

    Fyi, David Lifton did describe how weird it was for two (2) hearses to have showed up at the Bethesda Naval Hospital entrance, and such shenanigan was, “okay, okay,” and the US Navy official autopsy doctor had this kinda’ choice:🙄 “You can pick the hearse & body content that the new Commander in Chief likes.”

    Lastly, & to some measured degree, I can live with your comment’s final judgement on David Lifton’s “main contribution.”
    Nonetheless, & published in Reagan’s Morning in America 1981,😟 “Best Evidence” continues to provide the best but curiously obscured JFK murder evidence. Best to you, Iris!

    P.S.: No tampering happened to JFK’s wounds, my dear Iris. The Parkland Hospital E.R. docs saw what they saw, and reported the findings. In contrast, the Bethesda Naval Hospital official autopsy director, or his helper,🤔did a hand drawing of what was NOT the dead president’s head. Uh, no picture???
    Regrettably, a squeeze play 😈was put upon the Parkland Hospital’s E.R. doctor observations.

    • Replies: @Alden
  328. @utu

    You’re right. There’s more than enough reasons for suspicion of insignificant
    and casual, at first glance, details to be, in fact, deliberate and important (for their
    authors, at least). And not just in events of “high caliber”.
    Such events only better demonstrate the presence of what you called “signaling”.
    And very likely, in addition to publicity reasons, there’s another, and dire, need
    for digital perfections – but it’s a whole different story.
    The approach is the same though – if there’s a lot of whatever-type “perfections” in
    the immutable details (like dates, locations, names, etc.) of a case, one can extend
    expectations of the same in what seems to be the causal ones.

  329. @CanSpeccy

    Have you measured for probability the right coincidences. How about the probability that his wife would be two hours late and thus ensure they were flying in conditions for which he wasn’t trained or licensed? How about having two vivaciously, sometimes assertively, forceful an talkative women in the seats right behind him distracting him at a critical moment with a particularly irritating remark?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  330. @Incitatus

    Haha. Better for me to “get played” by 501c3’s than by mothers like you, InZitatus.

    (zzZigh) Look at Guyenot’s article picture? The physics, the physics. A struck carnie yellow duck goes backward, not forward. Haha. My worst best!

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Incitatus
  331. @Iris

    Thank you, I’ll look into some of this. The testimony regarding the falsified autopsy reports, including radiographic evidence, always seems like the most effective debunking information for the official cover story.

  332. @ChuckOrloski

    Thank you much. I agree that the evidence that has been cited over time to discredit the official autopsy report is some of the most compelling. I’ll look into it.

  333. @Justvisiting

    You may have misunderstood me. I was saying that I thought there Israeli Cabinet members (Abba Eban came to mind as a possibility) who would have restrained Ben Gurion. That’s what eventually prompted the idea that Ben Gurion might have resigned do that, if everything went wrong, he could be blamed as a mad dog.

  334. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    How about having two vivaciously, sometimes assertively, forceful an talkative women in the seats right behind him distracting him at a critical moment with a particularly irritating remark?

    You mean like: “Why are we all hanging by our seat-belts upside down.”

    Yes the official account makes sense. The only odd thing is that J., Jr. managed to kill himself just when others may have urgently wished him dead.

  335. @Daniel Rich

    The Zapruder family received 16 million dollars from the U.S. government for the Zfilm.

  336. @Stonehands

    I can’t give you a source for this but I remember reading that there was a US intelligence outfit(probably Naval Intelligence) that sent fake “defectors” into the USSR to see how the Soviets would handle real ones. LHO was one of them.

  337. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/the-genes-of-human-behaviour/
    We now know that you need a sample size of 80,000 people before you can detect the very slight changes that each genetic mutation causes, but when you get to such a scale, you find thousands of relevant genes, each adding only a small percentage to the chance of having a particular trait. It’s gold dust, not nuggets.

    Few males of north European ancestry ever have a head of hair as thick as John jr did at thirty something .He was heir to JFKs crowning glory, and women loved both men. One has to wonder what the genetic basis for something as deleterious to fitness as MPB is really selected for. It isn’t there to make men less attractive to women that is for sure.

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-11/23/c_138576584.htm

    There may also be unwanted attributes associated with preferred traits. For example, there are correlations between high IQ genes and autism and anorexia genes.

    It is a trade off,. Given that the folk wisdom about bald men is they are unassertive (in other words unmanly), I do not think it unlikely that there is a certain tendency for great hair being part of a suit of traits (including being daring and dashing) that are for attracting women, but also confer a compulsion to take risks that may get one killed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Alden
  338. Sean says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    On September 7th, 1963 Fidel Castro publicly stated, “Let Kennedy and his brother Robert take care of themselves since they, too, can be victims of an attempt which will cause their death”and this was reported in US newspapers including one in New Orleans where Oswald was living. He was known to read that paper.

    He [Oswald] arrived in Mexico City on September 27, where he applied for a transit visa at the Cuban Embassy,[124] claiming he wanted to visit Cuba on his way to the Soviet Union. The Cuban embassy officials insisted Oswald would need Soviet approval, but he was unable to get prompt co-operation from the Soviet embassy. […]

    On October 2, 1963, Oswald left Mexico City by bus and arrived in Dallas the next day. Ruth Paine said that her neighbor told her, on October 14, that there was a job opening at the Texas School Book Depository, where her neighbor’s brother, Wesley Frazier, worked. Mrs. Paine informed Oswald, who was interviewed at the depository and was hired there on October 16 as a $1.25 an hour minimum wage order filler

    A month before Kennedy’s ill-fated trip, U.N. Ambassador Stevenson was jeered, jostled, hit by a sign, and spat upon when he visited Dallas to mark U.N. Day.[129][130] Dallas Police were fearful that similar demonstrations would occur when Kennedy visited Dallas.[131] Several people, including Stevenson [very bald and also gay], warned JFK against coming to Dallas, but Kennedy ignored their advice.[21

    On 2 November 1963, President Diem and his brother were assassinated in a military coup, supported by the Kennedy administration.

    The presidential motorcade route was decided in mid November, and announced only days before JFK’s arrival in Dallas on November 22.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  339. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    True, but John Jr. did not look Irish and north European. His hair was thick like his father’s, but his father’s hair was a light brown, reddish brown, chestnut type color. Of course there are dark haired north Europeans and Irish, such as the “black Irish” look, but that’s a different type than Jr.

    Jr. was also French through his mother’s side, and his maternal grandfather was nicknamed “Black Jack” Bouvier because of his swarthy appearance. Presumably Jr. got his darker appearance through his French side.

  340. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    On no known legal authority, Robert F. Kennedy ordered retired General Edwin Walker committed to a mental asylum. He had Carlos Marcello Shanghaied to Guatemala, and was in charge of CIA international terrorism against Cuba and attempts to assassinate Castro. And RFK is the fellow whose brother you think they would not be afraid to murder?

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  341. Sean says:

    He was merely a bit darker that average Irish just as his father was a bit lighter that average. Jr.’s mother Jackie wasas Irish as JFK and far more Irish than French. Jackie’s mother was simply Irish while her father was a mix of English and Scottish as well as French. The media played up the French connection because it was seen as being sophisticated and stylish.

    Anyway, Jr.’s very thick hair and total lack or MPB in middle age was the most unEuropean thing about him because Europeans especially northern ones, have a tendency thin scalp hair and to baldness.

    And just as his father did, Jr did seem driven to take apparently needless risks https://nypost.com/2019/07/06/the-shocking-recklessness-that-killed-jfk-jr-and-2-of-his-friends/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  342. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    I think the whole “Umbrella Man” theory is an extremely weak argument, and the visuals and fanciful speculation it allows make it a particular distraction.

    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    Laurent Guyenot is not concerned with the mechanistic theories that preoccupy the feeble mined JFK conspiracy theorists exemplified in this thread by Iris. You have no patience for these theories either.

    You subscribe to the hypothesis that Israel was responsible for the JFK assassination. The only support for the Israel hypothesis is the cui bono argument. That argument is very strong indeed. Israel and Zionist lobby greatly benefited from JFK’s death that also lead to the removal of RFK from DOJ.

    You are correct that many other theories that are floated are just there to divert us from the pursuit of the Israel connection. The mechanistic theories with the cornucopia of minutiae (bullets, guns and brains) are there to bore the normal people to death and keep the feeble minded who remain to procreate the theories. But certainly Laurent Guyenot’s this excellent, imo, article is not a part of the distraction and noise creation campaign. This is not his intention despite of the efforts of others to misconstrue it by talking about flechette guns in the umbrella or the umbrella being necessary for the snipers and so on (Iris and her ilk).

    All what Laurent Guyenot does is to add to the Israel hypothesis a richer background that actually might be consistent with specifically Jewish modus operandi of the conspirators. The Umbrella Man provides their symbolic signature, a coded message for those who know the code of which I tried to explicate here:
    https://www.unz.com/article/the-umbrella-man-the-sins-of-the-father-and-the-kennedy-curse/#comment-3571567

    The Umbrella Man’s story of Chamberlain and Joseph Kennedy is like the writing on the wall of the Heine’s misspelled line in Ipatiev House where the Tsar Nicholas II and his family were murdered:

    Belsatzar ward in selbiger Nacht / Von seinen Knechten umgebracht

    Belshazzar, the Gentile king of Babylon who, in the Old Testament story, saw ‘the writing on the wall’ foretelling his destruction (Daniel 5) and was killed as punishment for his offences against Israel’s God. In a clever play on the Heine quotation, the unknown writer, almost certainly one of the killers, has substituted Belsatzar for Heine’s spelling Belsazar in order to signal even more clearly his intended symbolism. The Heine inscription described the racial/ethnic nature of the murders: ‘A Gentile king had just been killed as an act of Jewish retribution.’
    https://europeansworldwide.wordpress.com/2017/11/29/jewish-murder-of-the-russian-imperial-family/

    The writing on the wall in the Umbrella Man case, as Laurent Guyenot writes, is biblical “I, Yahweh, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.” But obviously JFK was not murdered for the sins of his father, it rarely is the case, but for what he might do as a President which was likely he would do because, well, the sins of his father indicated so. In the dialectic of Talmud and Bible the preemptive killings and retributive killings are one.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  343. Alden says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    One thing that led to endless theories about tampering with the presidents wounds is the fact that Robert and Jackie were determined to cover up Pres Kennedy’s Addison’s disease which would be obvious to any physician doing an autopsy. That’s why the presidents brain was removed and disappeared. That’s why Robert supervised the autopsy.

    They did what they did. I doubt there would have been any repercussions if the Addison’s disease had become widely known. But the Kennedy family was a massive public relations exercise. The king must have no flaws. Old Joe Kennedy had paid journalists to publicize his family since 1920. Robert, Jackie and the endless entourage continued the tradition

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  344. Dube says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ronald, you’re talking like Alexander Cockburn.

    However, there is an investigation taking place, and within the yellow tape of the crime scene, anomalous features receive special attention and causal analysis.

    Thank you for publishing this piece.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  345. Alden says:
    @Sean

    If you think N European men have thin hair you should meet the men in my family. Thick thick hair. My brothers are early 70s and their hair is thick as it was at 20. Same for all our middle aged sons and nephews. Both our parents had unusually thick hair. Maybe my brothers inherited thick hair from both parents and our sons and nephews from grandparents. Middle aged son in law’s and their male relatives all have thick hair as well.

    Maybe it’s California climate. Looking at his picture, Ron seems to have a thick head of hair.

    I’ve never noticed Scandinavian German French Swiss or English men having thin hair or bald hair on trips to Europe.

  346. Alden says:
    @Iris

    So the conspirators had a helicopter standing by to transport the presidents body 1,300 miles from Dallas to DC. How did they arrange refueling? A gas pump on a secret farm somewhere in Kentucky owned by the Illuminati and used as a KKK fortress?

    One of the books I read claimed the conspirators had a surgeon standing by on Air Force one with a scalpel to make fake wounds in full view of Kennedy’s entourage, stewards, military, secret service photographers journalists etc.

    One doesn’t have to be a physician to know that a scalpel stuck into a living body causes bleeding and a scalpel stuck into a dead body doesn’t cause bleeding. And that any physician doing an autopsy on post mortem wounds would notice.

    • Replies: @Iris
  347. Alden says:
    @Daniel Rich

    I agree. 2 of the greatest French kings, Henri 4 and Louis 14 really were great great kings. Granted Louis had great advisors his mother and PMs Richelieu and Mancini. He really made modern France

    And they were both incredible lechers. Louis was so umm virile at 14 his mother and PM hurriedly arranged a quickie marriage for him.

  348. Issar says:
    @Iris

    Two people both doing weird things at the same time? Sitting on the curb together afterward? One may be signalling the shooters with the umbrella. The other signalling the driver with the raised fist. Or the umbrella could be there for both symbolic and distractive purposes.

  349. @Iris

    Just like in the case of the 9/11 American Holocaust and control of the WTC, Zionist involvement in the JFK assassination headquarter building simply defies the odds.

    Actually, I had never considered the Dal-Tex Building (because I had never focused on the ballistic issue), but is does sound like a crucial piece of the puzzle, with the Zapruder-Bloom-etc connections. Josiah Thompson not mentionning the Dal-Tex Building in his Six Seconds in Dallas makes it all the more suspicious. Thanks.
    It apparently would be worth another article. Can you provide sources? Often, I tell myself that I have to move on from the JFK case, but regularly, I am drawn back to it. And at each stage, I realize more the significance of that fateful day for the US and for the world.
    BTW, a French video based on my script has just been made in French: I’ll translate it ASAP:
    https://www.egaliteetreconciliation.fr/Israel-et-le-double-assassinat-des-freres-Kennedy-57159.html

    • Agree: Durruti
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  350. @Ron Unz

    … at most mention them in an aside as being merely speculative

    I kind of agree. I think that’s basically what I did.
    Additionnally, I didn’t want to let the anniversary pass without writing something. Something about the significance of that day as a major step in Project Zion. I was hoping it would direct attention to my more fundamental article: https://www.unz.com/article/did-israel-kill-the-kennedies/
    And I guess it did. In that sense, it was not a “distraction”, but a reminder.
    In addition, this thread has been very enriching. So much great stuff! I have learned a lot.
    So thanks Ron for the experience. And thanks to all commenters.
    FYI, I’ve contributed to this French video (it’s my voice you hear), which I’ll try to get translated ASAP:
    https://www.egaliteetreconciliation.fr/Israel-et-le-double-assassinat-des-freres-Kennedy-57159.html
    For the moment, only the trailer is visible for free.

  351. @Iris

    I suppose yours sources for the Dal-Tex building are those you indicate in an earlier comment to Jefferson Temple. I’ll study that.

  352. @Sean

    Where did Castro “publicly” make his statement on September 7, 1963 ? Or is this just another example of fake news ? In any event , it has been pretty much well established that while Oswald was living in New Orleans he was in the employ of the CIA/FBI or some other US intelligence agency . In addition, there is evidence that Oswald was never in Mexico City and to set him up as a patsy his handlers were using a body double .

    • Replies: @Sean
  353. @Sean

    Yo Sean,

    Since you know you’re a hasbarist/troll, there’s no need to remind you of that fact. 🙂

    Your learning disability is also evident, as you commented to me on A.G. RFK’s action but fail to comprehend how he was poised to become Democrat nominee for POTUS, 1968, until murdered with shady Secret Service nearby. You are an outed asshole.👍

    Post scriptim: Mr. Guyenot’s important Umbrella Man article would be somewhat superfluous to solving JFK’s unsolved murder case; that is given the American people had knowledge about how a pristine replica bullet was deceptively planted upon Parkland Hospital E.R. floor, beside JFK’s gurney, and it became Arlen Specter’s “Magic Bullet.”😈

    • Agree: Iris
  354. Duke84 says:
    @enstien

    If you mean CE399 there was nothing magical about it.Be honest,you never read the Warren Commission report did you?

  355. Sean says:
    @9/11 Inside job

    He made it at the Brazilian embassy, and it was reported in US newspaers.

    In the words of a former CIA director, “The language of the memo speaks for itself. The only thing that Robert Kennedy can be referring to is the assassination of Castro. This paragraph should never have been written.” […] With the U.S.-backed assassinations of other world leaders—Rafael Trujillo in the Dominican Republic and Ngo Dinh Diem in Vietnam—Fidel became even more certain that he was the next hit on the Kennedys’ list. […] [Fidel] pulled aside Associated Press correspondent Daniel Harker, within earshot of other journalists. Harker, a native of Colombia, spoke fluent Spanish and was preferred by Castro for American press interviews…

    “Hey, Colombian,” said Fidel, “come over here, I want to talk to you.” He started in about the recent attacks, the other reporters bending in to hear more. “We are taking into account . . . the Caribbean situation,” he growled, “which has been deteriorating in the last few days due to piratical attacks by the United States against the Cuban people. . . . Kennedy is a cretin . . . the Batista of our times.” He never used the word “assassination,” but his meaning was clear. “If U.S. leaders are aiding terrorist plans to eliminate Cuban leaders, they themselves will not be safe. Let Kennedy and his brother Robert take care of themselves, since they too can be the victims of an attempt which will cause their death.” […] In the seven weeks between December 11, 1962, and January 29, 1963, however, he paid off the balance of the loan in three large amounts ($106, $100, and $190). Given that Oswald’s known expenses from October to January, based on a laborious reconstruction by the Warren Commission, were $537, and his earnings were $892, paying off the loan would have left him $101 in the red—making this a rather strange time to settle a major debt, unless he had a secret source of funds.

    How did Oswald suddenly have money after his visit to Mexico City? .

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  356. @Alden

    Alden pontificated: “One thing that led to endless theories about tampering with the presidents wounds is the fact that Robert and Jackie were determined to cover up Pres Kennedy’s Addison’s disease…”

    Yo Alden!

    To prevent your Addison’s Disease factor from becoming endlessly at best flippant at worst redundant, you might look at the trajectory of JFK’s body after a fatal bullet struck him in the throat front. Hm. Was never recovered! 🙄

    The process of “tampering” & lying about JFK’s wounds started right after he was wheeled out of the Parkland Hospital E.R.

    Out of limelight & American public purview, such evildoing was too easy for the assassination’s beneficiaries to pull off.

    Thanks, (Zigh).

    • Agree: Durruti
    • Replies: @Alden
  357. @Sparkon

    Personally, after much study, I think the whole thing was a sham. Way too many security lapses to be explained away. But then again that’s just my opinion.

    You are absolutely correct when you stated I love how the fleas attract all the attention here while the tigers and lions in the room go unremarked..

    I often wonder if Quentin Tarantino was not trying to show us the absurdity of perhaps America’s first televised Chaos Magic production with this scene in “Pulp Fiction”. This scene with “Marvin” is frankly much closer to what a head shot from a high powered rifle would look like. One more curios fact. The limo Kennedy was shot in remained in service until 1978. Does anyone else find that ghoulish and just plain weird?

    Following Kennedy’s assassination, the car received significant armor plating and a bullet-proof hardtop and its navy blue exterior was painted black. It resumed its role as a presidential limousine for President Lyndon B. Johnson until 1967 and later remained in service until 1978, when it was sent to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-100-X

    Anyway, “here’s Marvin”:

    • Replies: @S
  358. @Laurent Guyenot

    To Iris, Laurent Guyenot commented: “Thanks. It apparently would be worth another article. Can you provide sources?”

    Once Iris delivers sources, shall delight in another article! Fyi, Israel & my “Homeland’s” ZOG prefer that you bug-out, disappear. Thank you. Mind, body,& soul, you’re in this fight, to end.

  359. Issar says:
    @Ron Unz

    JFK worshippers are the least of your problems. Influential writers like Cockburn not interested in truth are the real problem. He didn’t need the Umbrella man to scare him away with his umbrella.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski, utu
  360. @Skeptikal

    Bottom line: JFK was pushing for the total dis-armament of ALL military’s of the world, including that of the U.S. The world was then to be policed by a UN world police. Many felt this was an extremely bad idea being Russia had 3 votes in the UN security council while the US had only one. Of course this was a “pie in the sky” dream which never came to pass, although the “small arms” section of Public Law 87-297 is still being used today to try and disarm legal gun owners in America.
    http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/un/do.htm

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  361. S says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    It is a bit ghoulish and I’m surprised the JFK limo wasn’t at least immediately decommissioned.

    Kind of remindful of the people who bought parts off of James Dean’s death car to install on their own race vehicles…what for, good luck perhaps? 🙁

  362. @Johnny Walker Read

    Regrettably, Johnny Walker Read was bottom wrong when he asserted this: “Bottom line: JFK was pushing for the total dis-armament of ALL military’s of the world, including that of the U.S.”

    Although a supporter of United Nations world peace ideal, JFK was not that naiive, Johnny. But thanks just the same.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  363. @Iris

    He used a Remington Fireball weapon and a frangible bullet with mercury content.

    The first frangible bullet was developed by Glaser Safety Slug, Inc. in 1974, and then reformulated into its current compressed core form in 1988 as a means of maximizing bullet weight and the number of bullet fragments. Later, in 1994, the polymer formulation was changed to improve fragmentation reliability to below 1,000 feet/second, through the use of soft plastic in the bullet instead of hard plastic.
    Not sure which statement is true, but here is a look at frangible ammo.
    http://gunivore.com/ammunition/frangible-ammunition/

    • Replies: @Iris
  364. @Durruti

    We are not now or were ever intended to be a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC
    This should be basic middle school knowledge.
    https://www.utahsrepublic.org/democratic-republic-or-constitutional-republic/

    • Replies: @Durruti
    , @Durruti
  365. @Truth3

    The position from which Zapruder was filming was carefully chosen so that the assassination shots took place when the Stemmons Freeway sign, since removed, blocked the view. Also the film camera shot in slow motion so that there were extra frames that could be eliminated to adjust the final product. Zapruder’s secretary who steadied him “and told him to go get the camera and film the event” initially denied hearing any shots from the grassy knoll. Years later it was decided safe to go along with the consensus and agree that she did hear shots, since the congressional investigation finally decided there was a conspiracy and several shooters but no one chose to continue with the matter, so officially the question was dropped. Rather like Noam Chomsky’s “Who cares who did 9/11?”

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  366. @Sean

    I wish that I could believe what is reported in US newspapers but I can’t because of “J.P.Morgan’s takeover of the American Press in 1915 ” see thementalmilitia.net

  367. @Ivegotrythm

    My thanks & respect for your offering a terrific comment on the pre-planned Abraham Zapruder shoot, Ivegotrhythm!

    As per Zapruder’s granddaughter’s book, you likely know that upon having finished recording the event, Abraham went to a local Kodak joint, made film copy, and (argh) he relinquished custody to the Secret Sevice.

    Your comment end, “Rather like Noam Chomsky’s “Who cares who did 9/11?” is precious. And Long Live the Resistance!

  368. Durruti says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    We are not now or were ever intended to be a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC
    This should be basic middle school knowledge.

    I believe I flunked out of ‘middle school.’

    All Republics are different, but all contain some democracy. Some are more democratic than others.

    Republics allow for a Separation of Powers. No Dictators may tread on a Republic, without there being some shock waves. Our American Republic attempted a triple separation of power, divided between the Executive, the Legislative, and the Judiciary, and of course State & local government (who operate the same 3 way political sharing). The idea is to give all ranks of citizenry – some say, some control over their Destiny, their Liberty.

    I learned all this from my 6th Grade teacher, Mrs. Nolan, in Brooklyn’s PS 206. It has been argued that I learned nothing since. Mrs. Nolan was tall, beautiful, and a wonderful American Patriot. She was also in charge of the Gym classes, & was the most popular teacher in the school. But I digress.

    From Caesar, to the Zionist coup of 11/22/1963, Republics are overthrown by force & violence. They are overthrown BY TYRANTS! [often they are overthrown by foreign tyrants] I believe you have had some College? Surely you understand these points!?!

    Republics and Democracy walk, as Lovers, hand in hand. Sometimes they fight, and their association gets a little ruffled. But with a little Love (and some actual Loving), they make the best efforts, despite existing in a difficult world, filled with Greedy Oligarchs, who want it all, and who were not taught the lessons of Morality & True love of Country that we learned in PS 206 (with a little help from our families).

    Whatever we were intended to be. We Americans will be much better off when we Restore Our Republic. And with that restoration comes the priceless gifts of Sovereignty, Liberty, and Honor.

    Durruti

  369. Anonymous[159] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Yes, I’m aware that he and his mother were only partly French. And it’s not just about being darker than the average Irishman. He doesn’t look like the typical dark brunet from the British Isles. He has a more southern, Continental cast that presumably derives from his maternal grandfather “Black Jack’s” French background.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @anon
  370. Durruti says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Some Republics have a written Constitution, and some don’t. Our American Constitution is a beautiful document, from its Bill of Rights, to its last dot.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  371. @Thad Brody

    Very good point you have brought up….

  372. For those interested, linked below is an article on Abraham Zapruder’s grandaughter, Alexandra’s, presentation of her well regarded book at a Jewish book fair. 🥴

    In the book, and fyi, Alexandra gushed about her family’s getting the US government’s $16 milllion gift for the original copy of Grandpa’s JFK death film, & to be placed in America’s historical records…, crypt. (Zigh) BUY THE BOOK ON BLACK FRIDAY!

    http://www.thenewsherald.com/downriver_life/zapruder-granddaughter-presents-her-book-at-jewish-book-fair/article_1afada3b-e424-50bb-87ba-67d3182770ed.html

  373. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Seems like everyone was in town the day of the assassination: Presidents-t0-be George H. W. Bush, Richard M. Nixon, and of course, LBJ. Plus, there was J. Edgar Hoover — there presumably, to ensure that the machinery of law enforcement fulfilled its orders for the day, and Israeli PM-to-be, Yitzhak Rabin, which makes the JFK assassination look like a multi-partisan project.

    Here, I argued that the killing was a bi-partisan, Democrat/Republican affair, but given that the Jewish lobby is the most powerful in the US with massive political clout via political donations, media control, and a multiplicity of political organizations from AIPAC to the ADL and JDL, it would seem more likely that the murder of JFK was, in fact, a tri-partisan project, particularly in view of the information Iris provides concerning the ownership of the Dal-Tex Building.

    The case can be made that the same forces were responsible for 9/11, hence the absence in that event too of any serious forensic investigation. In both cases, the evidence points overwhelmingly to a state crime against democracy (SCAD) backed by both sides of the political divide with technical support from Israel and their agents in the US.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
  374. Ivy Mike says:
    @Laurent Guyenot

    LBJ was a farmer? About as laughable an attempt at fact as all the conspiracy and antizionist blather that infects Unz.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @Hibernian
  375. @CanSpeccy

    As the saying goes the democratic and republican parties are two wings of the same bird of prey . Knowing statement by Nixon : “Both Johnson and I wanted to be President , but the only difference was I wouldn’t kill for it .”

  376. peterAUS says:

    Isn’t it possible that the Umbrella Man was working together with the “Badge Man”?
    As in
    https://www.adventuresunlimitedpress.com/proddetail.php?prod=AAJK
    Quote:

    Mike Bara, space expert and author of ANCIENT ALIENS ON THE MOON takes a hard look at the Kennedy assassination and the race to the Moon. Bara examines never-before-revealed clues to the real reasons behind the Kennedy assassination, the true objectives of the Apollo program and the shadow government hidden agendas that led to Kennedy’s death in Dallas. Relying on heretofore unavailable records culled from the recent Kennedy assassination document dump, Bara shows the secret connections between key assassination figures like Lee Harvey Oswald, Lyndon Johnson, and highly placed figures inside NASA who had reasons to want Kennedy dead. He examines the relationship between JFK and MJ-12, JFK’s “Grand NASA Plan,” plus NASA and the Parallel Secret Space Program. Bara examines the “magic bullet” hypothesis and identifies the mysterious “Badge Man” who appears in photos of the grassy knoll. Bara also looks into the bizarre billion-dollar Treasury bonds that Japanese businessmen attempted to deposit in a Swiss bank that had depictions of Kennedy and the Moon on them. Is the wealth of the Moon being used as collateral by the USA? The book digs deeply into Kennedy’s silent war with shadowy deep state figures who were desperate to shut down his “disclosure” agenda.

    Cue the music from the “Twilight Zone”……..

  377. Ron Unz says:
    @Skeptikal

    The first book I read about JFK was really the first time I seriously questioned the official story of the assassination or even thought that much about it: James Douglass’s JFK and the Unspeakable, recommended by a friend….Commissioned by the Maryknoll Foundation, this book was the first and is still the main source of my thinking more deeply about JFK and the meaning of his presidency and assassination. And my conclusion that his assassination was fateful for the USA: He did try to change the direction the country and the world was going for the better, less conflictual, less nuclear.

    Actually, I hadn’t realized the Douglass book was commissioned by an organization of Catholic nuns, but I guess it shouldn’t surprise me. I recall lots of rather odd framing quotes by Catholic pacifists when I read it a few years ago. But frankly, this greatly reduced its credibility in my mind, given the likelihood that such emotional involvement would impact analytical judgment. That’s one of the many reasons I regarded Talbot’s book published the previous year as far better and more persuasive.

    Now I don’t have anything against JFK, but let’s be a little realistic. The Cold War against the USSR lasted nearly a half-century, and included nine presidents. Yet during that time the closest we ever came to nuclear war—and by some accounts very close indeed—was under JFK during the Cuban Missile Crisis, just before his 1962 elections. If JFK’s policies brought us so close to destroying the world, is it really correct to hail him as such an outstanding force for world peace? Based on those facts, couldn’t a critic plausibly argue that JFK was our worst and most dangerous president?

    We also shouldn’t forget that JFK dishonestly demagogued Nixon as being “soft on national defense” because of the fraudulent “missile gap,” similarly accused him of being “soft on Castro,” and then finally stole the 1960 election with the backing of organized crime. And Hersh does provide quite a bit of evidence that JFK had the Diems overthrown and killed because he opposed their peace negotiations with North Vietnam.

    Finally, if JFK was killed by LBJ/Mossad, who seem the most likely culprits, then his death had absolutely nothing to do with his anti-militarism (or his pro-militarism), but for other reasons entirely.

    • Replies: @9/11 Inside job
    , @Sean
  378. Iris says:
    @Alden

    So the conspirators had a helicopter standing by to transport the presidents body 1,300 miles from Dallas to DC. How did they arrange refueling?

    I am not sure about the purpose of such a ludicrous question.

    Broadly, David Lifton’s thesis is that President Kennedy’s body was transported in Air Force One, but in an anonymous shipping casket, not inside the ceremonial casket that stayed at all times under supervision of the accompanying party (Mrs Kennedy, LBJ, etc..).

    Upon arrival at Andrews Air Force Base, the official casket was taken to Bethesda Naval Hospital on a (slow) hearse.

    The shipping casket with JFK’s Body inside, on the contrary, would have been flown by helicopter from Andrews Base to Bethesda, and would have arrived at least one hour ahead.

    This would have given the time to dress/modify/alter JFK’s wounds.

    Some people, like Gerald Posner, have mocked Lifton’s thesis of body alteration; it is actually a proof of stupidity, or malice, or both.

    President Kennedy’s assassination did not go to plan: the fatal headshot should have hit him from behind only, to make Oswald a plausible culprit. Instead, as the main sniper missed the head several times, his back up shot JFK from the Grassy Knoll with a frangible bullet, causing a massive EXIT wound at the back of the skull.

    The perpetrators were in a state of panic. This is why they went to the extraordinary length of sending the SS recuperate the President’s body at gunpoint from Parkland Hospital before any autopsy was undertaken, in violation of the most basic forensic and investigative procedures.

    They had to quickly improvise something to try and mask the exit wound at the back of the skull, as it proved the President was not shot from the TSBD.

    Lifton has gathered the testimonies of many Navy corpsmen, and the evidence that there were two different entries for JFK’s casket at Bethesda’s morgue is undeniable.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    , @Alden
  379. Hi Ron!

    You likely know that non-Catholic Paul Craig Roberts wrote a 5 Star review of J.D.’s “JFK and The Unspeakable.” For refresher, is linked way down below.

    Upon the review’s initial publication, PCR recommended readers to skip over the stuff central to the Trappist monk, Thomas Merton, who was the originator of the deep state (JFK era) tag, “The Unspeakable.” Fyi, via polite email, I complained to Paul Craig Roberts, and not surprisingly, got no repsonse.

    It appears to me you would take PCR’s advice, and you still let me speak to your prejudice upon your realization that “the Douglass book being commissioned by an organization of Catholic nuns.”

    Shall nudge in one more thing. Had Merton lived during 9/11 and pursuant GWOT, and was in email communication with someone family & female close to President G.W. Bush, I’d wager the monk would have discussed “Unspeakable” Neoconservative pressure upon the Skull & Bones guy who later on branded himself a “War President.” Am no bettin’Jonathan Revusky though. 🙂

    As you know, President Trump is wading very close to the muddy Waters of WW3. 😢So thanks, and a wish for a happy Thanksgiving at the Unz family table.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/10/31/jfk-unspeakable-died-matters/

  380. Iris says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    I wonder if you have also read The Last Investigation by Gaeton Fonzi

    Hello Nosey. Indeed, Gaeton Fonzi is extremely respected within the JFK research community.

    He is one of the few decent people, with the likes of Douglas Horne, to have seen the official JFK “truth” commissions operating from the inside, and to have understood and made public how their only purpose is to collect and destroy the overwhelming evidence of a conspiracy. Best.

  381. Incitatus says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Nasty! What a delight!

    “ass-pick man…disingenuous old queen”

    My, what a bright intellectual you are! Projecting bogus sexual degeneracy to discredit interlocutors. It’s obviously all you think about.

    Never mind your vacuum-cleaner legacy and “arts” [transgender pole-dancing?] career.

    You’re one sick puppy. Never mind.

    God loves you just the way you are.

    Stay well, Nasty.

  382. Iris says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    Hey JWR; there are two close and corroborating versions to this story, from two different sources.

    – In 1994, James Files made the confession that he shot President Kennedy with a bullet modified by a Chicago criminal associate nicknamed “Wolfman”. Wolfman made him six special rounds filled with mercury.

    According to Files, rounds loaded in such manner were less likely to ricochet on hard skull bone. So the plan always was to hit JFK at the head.

    Files demanded Wolfman to come out with the truth, too. He summoned him to Joliet Prison. One week after visiting, Wolfman died in unknown circumstances.

    http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/frept97.htm

    – In 2019, an American citizen called Christopher Fulton published his biography closely entwined with the Kennedy tragedy. The most stunning and mind-blowing original piece of information he produces is, in my opinion, a voluntary confession by Robert Bouck, head of the White House Secret Service since WW2.

    Robert Bouck described how the Cartier wristwatch worn by JFK on that fatal day got covered with bodily matters and mercury, how it randomly escaped the methodical clean-up of evidence organised by the perpetrators, and ended up in RFK’s hands, as the undeniable evidence that his brother was murdered by other than Oswald.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @ChuckOrloski
  383. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    “Haha. Better for me to “get played” by 501c3’s than by mothers like you, InZitatus.”

    Indeed, you want to “get played” like some fertile dripping female canine.

    Will it explain/enhance your circumstance?

    Don’t think so, but who knows?

    Stay well, Chuck.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  384. @Ron Unz

    JFK started his presidency with a murderous enemy , namely his own vice-President . In addition to LBJ , during his presidency he made many more deadly enemies including Allen Dulles , Curtis LeMay, David Ben Gurion and Carlos Marcello . In “JFK vs. The Military ” Robert Dallek describes how JFK faced a foe more relentless than Kruschev and they were just across the Potomac – the bellicose Chiefs of Staff who were arguing for the use of nuclear weapons and the invasion of Cuba . In fact after the disastrous “Bay of Pigs ” operation , Curtis LeMay called JFK a traitor and it is said that he attended JFK’s autopsy to gloat over the death of his nemesis .
    In “Mary’s mosaic : the CIA conspiracy to murder John F. Kennedy & Mary Pinchot Meyer and their vision for World peace ” Peter Janney ‘s thesis is that JFK and Meyer were deeply in love , experimented with drugs together and Meyer , an avowed pacifist , had a profound influence on Kennedy’s approach to the military and his increasing pacifism . Mary Meyer knew the movers and shakers in Washington and Ben Bradlee and possibly had evidence that the CIA was involved in JFK’s assassination , she kept a diary which went missing after her murder which Janney argues was probably engineered by the CIA .

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  385. @Ivy Mike

    LBJ did own a farm, of course, and you can visit it today and take a tour (a few miles east of Johnson City, TX). He hired lots of workers who actually took care of the animals on site.

    Every word out of the tour guide’s mouth was propaganda (lies) when we took the bus tour. My wife kept kicking me to remind me to keep my mouth shut. 😉

  386. @ChuckOrloski

    Are you unable to read? The only forces any nation would have would be police forces THERE WOULD BE NO STANDING MILITARY’S

    THE UNITED STATES
    HAS INTRODUCED AT THE SIXTEENTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE UNITED NATIONS A PROGRAM FOR GENERAL AND COMPLETE DISARMAMENT IN A PEACEFUL WORLD.
    This new program provides for the progressive reduction of the war-making capabilities of nations and the simultaneous STRENGTHENING OF INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS to settle disputes and maintain the peace. It sets forth a series of comprehensive measures which can and should be taken in order to bring about a world in which there will be freedom from war and security for all states. It is based on three principles deemed essential to the achievement of practical progress in the disarmament field:
    FIRST, THERE MUST BE IMMEDIATE DISARMAMENT ACTION:
    A STRENUOUS AND UNINTERRUPTED EFFORT MUST BE MADE TOWARD THE GOAL OF GENERAL AND COMPLETE DISARMAMENT; at the same time, it is important that specific measures be put into effect as soon as possible.
    Second, ALL DISARMAMENT OBLIGATIONS MUST BE SUBJECT TO EFFECTIVE INTERNATIONAL CONTROLS:

    http://www.behindmyback.org/2016/01/15/complete-disarmament-public-law-87-297/

    Here it is, straight from the horses ass, er mouth..
    https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/historic-speeches/address-to-the-united-nations-general-assembly

  387. @Incitatus

    Hey InZit!

    By chance, fucker, did you look at the pic which corresponds to this article by L.G.?

    Oh holy female bat shit! Eh? Zip…,

    LHO’s shot, missing death limo occupants,😕 and right smack into JFK’s throat. Hm.🤔 Am also wondering what commenter, (Dirty) peteyAUS, thinks about the late-Oswald’s IDF-equivilent skill level? Haha. Plus, the unhindered Dallas P.D. entrant, Jack Ruby Rubinstein, only had to get close, shoot. (Zigh)

  388. Again, for those to lazy or illiterate to find the truth about JFK’s call for TOTAL DISARMAMENT OF ALL NATIONS INCLUDING THE US.

    [MORE]

    Title 22 USC 2552
    HERE YOU WILL FIND IT STATED AS ITEM (A) “CONTROL, REDUCTION AND ELIMINATION OF ARMED FORCES…” AND AS ITEM (D)” …ELIMINATION OF ARMED FORCES….”

    ——————–
    WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW IS THAT YOUR ARMED FORCES ARE BEING ELIMINATED AND RELINQUISHED FROM NATIONAL CONTROL

    ————————
    WHICH, IN TURN, WIPES OUT OUR SOVEREIGNTY AS A NATION.

    ————————
    IN TWO STAGES, WE WILL HAVE NO MORE ARMY, NO MORE NAVY, NO MORE AIR FORCE.

    ———————————
    IN THE THIRD STAGE, WE SHALL HAVE A “ZERO” MILITARY.

    ————————————
    BEFORE STAGE I CLOSES, ALL CITIZEN OWNED GUNS ARE TO BE BANNED.

    http://www.behindmyback.org/2016/01/15/complete-disarmament-public-law-87-297/

    DISARMAMENT GOAL AND OBJECTIVES

    The over-all goal of the United States is a free, secure, and peaceful world of independent states adhering to common standards of justice and international conduct and subjecting the use of force to the rule of law; a world which has achieved general and complete disarmament under effective international control; and a world in which adjustment to change takes place in accordance with the principles of the United Nations.
    In order to make possible the achievement of that goal, the program sets forth the following specific objectives toward which nations should direct their efforts:
    The disbanding of all national armed forces and the prohibition of their reestablishment in any form whatsoever other than those required to preserve internal order and for contributions to a United Nations Peace Force;

    The elimination from national arsenals of all armaments, including all weapons of mass destruction and

    https://www.mikenew.com/pub7277.html

    Denial is not a river in Egypt, It is a very real delusional force that runs through many heads commenting here.

  389. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @9/11 Inside job

    JFK started his presidency with a murderous enemy , namely his own vice-President . In addition to LBJ , during his presidency he made many more deadly enemies including Allen Dulles , Curtis LeMay, David Ben Gurion and Carlos Marcello .

    Yeah. The idea that some shitty little country could, with the aid of a few co-racialist American traitors, murder the American president and suffer no reprisal, and indeed have the CIA, the FBI, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party work together to cover up the crime by neither conducting nor demanding a proper forensic investigation of the crime is nuts.

    At the time, the nonsensical official account of Kennedy’s murder was unquestioned because none of those in a position to question it had any reason to do so.

    LBJ hated Kennedy and got his job.

    Nixon, head of the Republican party, a man with no love for Kennedy, was a protege of the Bush clan, long involved with the military industrial complex which Kennedy’s dovish tendency threatened.

    The CIA’s Director, Allen Dulles, who as the dominant member of the Warren Commission wrote the cover up, had just been fired by Kennedy after Kennedy had wrecked the CIA’s Bay of Pigs assault on Cuba, and as Kennedy was threatening to end the war in Vietnam, where the CIA was heavily involved.

    The Joint Chiefs who believed that Kennedy had shown indefensible weakness in his deal with Khrushchev over the Cuban missiles, when pretty certainly the Russians were in panic and ready to fold.

    No, Israel served in the Kennedy assassination as in the 9/11 slaughter, as the loyal assistant to the American elite.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  390. Sparkon says:
    @Iris

    James Files’ tall tales have been completely debunked from top to bottom, as you well know.

    No assassin would leave incriminating evidence at the scene of the crime as Files claims he did. It’s pure idiocy.

    Beyond that, If there really had been a cartridge sitting on the picket fence, where Files claims he left it sitting in plain sight, it would have been spotted on Nov. 22. In the immediate aftermath of the assassination, people and cops were swarming all over that area and searching it thoroughly.

    Nobody saw or found the dented cartridge on Nov. 22, 1963 simply because it wasn’t there.

    The cartridges that were found in Dealey Plaza in 1987, including one with a dent, were determined to have been manufactured after 1970, and could not have been involved in Kennedy’s 1963 assassination.

    http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Headstamp/

    Similarly, the serial number on Files’ Fireball pistol shows it was manufactured well after the assassination.

    Files has made many false statements. He’s an accomplished bullshit artist, but like most of his breed, his imagination outruns the facts. He originally claimed to have been hanging out with Oswald in New Orleans in 1961 with shipments of fake Tommy guns, but Oswald was still in the USSR at that time.

    Dick Clark was planning on doing a special on Files, but hired attorney Edward J. Epstein to check out Files’ story.

    In brief, NBC retained me as a consultant for their planned story on Files. I hired the detective firm of Jules Kroll.

    JK established from telephone records Files was in Chicago, not Dallas, on November 22,1963. We then placed a call to Files from Dick Clark’s office (DC was producer), and I interviewed Files about Kroll findings.

    He said he had a twin brother, who no one knew about, and whom he met shortly before November 22, and who he murdered after November 22. He said it was his twin brother in hospital with his wife, not him.

    His wife, however, said there was no twin, and Kroll confirmed there was no twin. My view then and now is that Files invented the story for the money it would earn him.

    Ed Epstein

    https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKfiles.htm

    BS artists never run out of lies. When caught in one lie, they simply make up another.

    • Troll: Iris
  391. @Durruti

    Be sure to thank those rebellious “Anti-Federalist” for the Bill Of Rights, the only part of the Constitution that guaranties you any “Individual Rights”

    One of the many points of contention between Federalists, who advocated a strong national government, and Anti-Federalists, who wanted power to remain with state and local governments, was the Constitution’s lack of a bill of rights that would place specific limits on government power. Federalists argued that the Constitution did not need a bill of rights, because the people and the states kept any powers not given to the federal government. Anti-Federalists held that a bill of rights was necessary to safeguard individual liberty.

    https://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/bill-of-rights/

    • Agree: Durruti
  392. @Sparkon

    Again, Sparkon sparked,🤗 said: “Nobody saw or found the dented cartridge on Nov. 22, 1963 simply because it wasn’t there.”

    Ideally all commenters on this thread read your words, Sparkon, and learned something factual.

    Millions of Americans should have inculcated Lifton’s (Magic Bullet-centered chapter), “Best Evidence” way back in 1981.🤔 Had David’s critical evidence not been submerged, the process of determining whatever it was the weird Umbrella Man was doing onscene @ Elm Street…, such would be a crack, bam CSI bonus. Thanks a lot, Sparkon!

  393. @Sparkon

    Sparkon emphasized: “BS artists never run out of lies. When caught in one lie, they simply make up another.”

    Above, “BS artists” are professional, unaccountable, and they also mastered the dark art of making up new & improved lies, which distract the multitude’s attention from the original Whoppers. 😈

    Thanks & my onward respect!

  394. @Iris

    Dear Iris,

    With love & respect, please consider standing down from being occupied by James Files?

    Fyi, it took me > 30 years to accept the Shabbos goy President elect, LBJ, was a complicit beneficiary of the JFK killing & coup.

    Trust you do not see ill intent in this comment, Iris. ‘Cuz, like the “Magic Bullet,” it’s not there.💓

  395. @Sean

    “Male pattern baldness is linked to being gay in a recent genetic study.”

    That could explain why baldness is so common among the Catholic bishops and cardinals.

    • Replies: @Sean
  396. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    It was the thickness of his hair that set him apart, and he got that from his father. Junior had an astounding lack of sensitivity to DHT on the scalp for sure, but what about the inside of his cranium? With his beaver pelted crowning glory, and strutting around with his shirt off, he was extraordinarily attractive to women. You could say that was his full time job, because his adrenaline junkie activities ( swimming over the horizon alone, playing chicken with the Staten Island Ferry in a kayak) were a way of demonstrating his genetic quality to them.

    Live fast die young and make a good looking corpse, as the saying goes, but it is shocking to realise that Junior was 38 years old. A fellow pushing forty using a powered parachute that struck fear into other pilots, and shattered his ankle predictably crashing it, then barely was the cast off from the operation to put a plate in to repair the damage, he hopped into a plane and declined the offer of an instructor to come along.

    https://nypost.com/2019/01/05/tv-special-glosses-over-the-truth-behind-jfk-jr-s-doomed-flight/ “The Last Days of JFK Jr.,” a two-hour special promising new details and new interviews under the ABC News banner, aired Thursday night. Not only did the program soft-pedal Kennedy’s complete and utter fault for the crash but it got crucial details wrong — claiming that the FAA said flying conditions that night were “excellent” (according to the National Transportation Safety Board review of the crash, they were extremely poor, and JFK Jr. would have known it)Also: that he had a new Piper Saratoga, a craft far too sophisticated for a beginner;… that he had less than an hour in the air at night without an instructor; that he wasn’t “instrument-rated,” meaning he was able only to pilot manually in clear weather; and that instead of hugging the lit-up coastline, flying from New Jersey to Hyannis, he went out over the dark ocean.

    “How could this happen?” one friend asks in the special.

    Really? How could it not?

    It’s hard to imagine the Bessette family having to endure this narrative, told here yet again, as mythologically sad rather than what it was: homicidally negligent at best, criminal at worst.

    The sins of the father, because numerous people, including Adlai Stevenson, who had been assaulted there, warned JFK not to go to Dallas. Not only did he go he did a motorcade in a limo without the perspex bubble. Something in his make up drove him to take risks and his wife beside him and sharing those risks did not seem to bother him. Sins of the father indeed.

    • Replies: @Ivegotrythm
    , @Anonymous
  397. Sean says:
    @Ron Unz

    Mossad would not have done it in Dallas. For LBJ to become president with the authority to reverse JFK’s Israel policy, not as a Texan who there were dark murmurings about, Mossad would have killed Kennedy somewhere else in order to divert as much suspicion as possible from LBJ.

    If a ‘who benefits?’ argument is conclusive, then it must have been Johnson. As we know it was done in Dallas, and benefited Johnson, it would seem it was all Johnson and done in Texas because that is where he had the machine to be confident of pulling it off. Johnson was a Boss Hogg type, but he did not run a countrywide Murder Incorporated with covert action operatives on salary and feds and police everywhere in his pocket. Doing it in Dallas was risky for LBJ, but he obviously could not even try anywhere else because he was mounting a complicated ‘patsy’ plot.

  398. “Umbrella Man” had an accomplice, “Dark Complected Man” better known as “Radio Man” because he had a talky-walky in his hip pocket, to be able to receive instructions from the HQ in the Adolphus Hotel to call the whole thing off if need be for technical reasons. The two were together and they sat together on the curb calmly observing the aftermath before they went their separate ways in opposite directions. Umbrella Man did not become a question mark until Conspiracy Theorists began examining the photographs that were allowed to survive. It was only many years later that Umbrella Man came forward with his cover story of “Chamberlain” and “heckling.” This is part of the long term operation of “stringing the public along” over the years with limited hang-out and red herrings to keep most of them from drawing conclusions the assassination Directorate does not want drawn. But while in psy-ops you can fool most of the public easily, and even count on them to fall over each other to fool themselves, to even discover shooters in sewers, you cannot fool professionals. There were, according to French Intelligence, four sets of shooters and spotters, with one in the Dal-Tex and two on the grassy knoll. Part of the problem was not just to kill Kennedy, but to make it look like one man did it instead of four teams and a cast of hundreds. Better, of course, an accident, and, once it became obvious to most of the public that Oswald did not do it, many years later, the “stringing along” produced the story that a Secret Service man shot Kennedy by accident, so, yes, for those who think too much, it was not Oswald, it was the secret government like everyone thinks it was, but not deliberately. It was an honest mistake and there is no reason to look further for who was responsible.

    To make it look like one man did it, the four shooter teams had to be coordinated and the shooters had to all shoot at the same time, and that was Umbrella Man’s job, a clear visual signal, by suddenly raising a black umbrella in the air, to tell the four sniper spotters, NOW. The Umbrella Man was opposite the optimum killing spot where everyone could see him. When Kennedy was in position at the optimum spot where the chances of success were high for the triangulation and the chances of pesky collateral murders were low, Umbrella Man raised the signal. The optimum spot was also very important so that the public’s attention could be misdirected to the Texas Book Depository which was an elaborate, all important, decoy operation. The main decoy himself did not know he was going to be the patsy until the reporters told him at the midnight news conference. Until then, he thought he would produce the curtain rods that he brought with him that morning and everyone would realize that he did not have a gun and was innocent. Little did he know that he not only had the guns, the means, the motive, but even photographs to prove it all. To create the illusion, Ruby’s Man Friday, an Oswald look alike, had already gone hitch-hiking around town, days before, with a similar looking bag that looked like it could have contained a broken down rife to drew attention to the future assassin decoy duck. The Man Friday, Curtis “Larry” Crafard, then fled that Saturday to his sister in Michigan with seven dollars in his pocket.

    [MORE]

    To provide an incontrovertible official record for public consumption, which, like the Naudet Documentary is to 9/11, there is the Zapruder film, since outed by the evidence that it arrived at the National Photographic Interpretation Center (NPIC) in Washington for analysis on two different occasions, once on Saturday and, after being further doctored by Eastman Kodak, again on Sunday. There was also an “optimum spot” for filming this controllable and incontrovertible “evidence.” Thus, in Zapruder’s film the actual moment of the shooting is conveniently screened behind the Stemmons Freeway sign like a curtain in a magic show. Heading the assassination design team credits were Allen Dulles as director and best boy David Atlee Phillips. A CIA co-production with their faithful criminal side kicks, the Mafia. Since the puppets needed brains and a sponsoring Angel as a guiding light, Mossad was the Producer. The Zapruder film was a Shmatak Sayanim studios trailer.

    Was Chamberlain an “appeaser?” He, unlike Churchill the shill, did not want war, nor did the British people. That Germany was picking up pieces of itself torn off by the criminal Versailles conspiracy and given to artificially created countries did not concern them. But even if Chamberlain did not want war, he was still sent off by the powers that be (he complained to foreign diplomats) to make a treaty with Poland, ever ready to do the Dark Lord’s work since Lithuanian Arch Duke Gediminas sold their soul to the Ashkenazi Khazars in 1321. That 1939 last minute British-Polish treaty was the trip mechanism that would bring on the desired shooting war sequence of WWII, which had already begun with the declaration of hostilities in 1933.s A kind of mirror image of the German-Soviet non-aggression pact. It is for those people, the real belligerents, that Chamberlain was “an appeaser,” but for the British at the time, he was actually someone who, for reasons unknown, wanted to avoid senseless killing and needless suffering. Since then, of course, the British were brainwashed into calling the Jewish War carried on by Churchill as “Hitler’s War” instead. Rudolf Hess, who personally parachuted into Scotland to bring one of so many attempts on the part of the Germans to make peace, was jailed in solitary confinement for fifty years, the last prisoner of Spandau, until he committed suicide, by hanging, like Epstein, or was killed in 1987 at the age of 93 so he could not talk. Calling Chamberlain’s attempts to avoid war “appeasement” is part of the regular obedience training that the masters impose constantly upon their beasts of burden.

    The planning was thorough, the preparation careful, but reality does not always cooperate. Because of traffic delays on Dealey Plaza, Oswald got off the bus on his way to the rendez-vous at the Texas theater before Captain Westbrook and his Dallas Police secret intelligence commando unit got on that bus to shoot Oswald dead. Instead, Oswald, who did not know he was supposed to be brought to justice on the bus, took a cab to NEAR his rooming house, but as a trained professional not TO his rooming house confusing the driver, and the public, with three different addresses. There was a pre-arranged witness, Mrs Bledsoe, on that bus who would have identified Oswald to the police and all the bus riders as an awful foreign language speaking spy. But Oswald got off the bus and took a cab. Later, she gave damning testimony to Earl Warren’s white wash team reading from a script that said unkempt Oswald (who was actually quite kempt) spoke to someone in a foreign language on the telephone, ate peanut butter and milk in the room she rented him, and used her refrigerator for those shameful acts.

    Then, another snafu was Tippit. Tippet made his call for instructions to the Adolphus Hotel communications center from the Record Shop. He said nothing because he did not have to say anything. He was calling his special number and those at the other end knew who it was. They sent him to the safe house on East 10th street where he was told by his contacts, two men strolling on the street, to go shoot Oswald dead in the theater. But, Tippit came to his senses, balked, and started reaching for his gun. Since Tippit was not witty enough, he was immediately shot several times and finally in the back of the head NKVD style by the two men instead, and one of the men, an Oswald look- alike, (these were Allen Dulles’ touches) ran to the Theater to create the impression that he was Oswald. Excellent back up plan, no? The young Johnny Calvin Brewer, the humble, heroic, Hardy’s shoe store manager on Jefferson street, saw the agent who shot Tippit signal to him through the window and sprang into action. He had the young Texas Theater ticket seller Julia Postal call Police about a fare beater who went into the theater without paying the twenty-five or so cents. Shortly thereafter, thirty cops, several FBI men, the DA and a photographer, arrived to record the final execution of the assassin of JFK one hour and fifteen minutes after the assassination. Meanwhile the shooter of Tippit went into the balcony, while Oswald was sitting below in the Orchestra, wondering “what next?” surrounded by government agents all intently watching war movies.

    The Texas theater was another screw-up. Because Kennedy was Catholic, there was over-lying Good Friday to Easter Sunday symbolic scenario running in the background that prevented things happening the way the Producers wanted and eventually exposed the machinations. The police naturally attempted to shoot Oswald right away as is their wont with the gun that Oswald received from his contact in the theater; that gun had a deliberately defective firing pin in case Oswald figured things out too soon and could not hurt protected team members. Oswald’s gun misfired in the hands of the Police so instead of shooting him then and there the flummoxed cops had to arrest him. Oswald was taken out the front, photographed by the official photographer, and, a passing “tourist” who had earlier photographed the bus Oswald was on in Dallas. Attempts were made to cover Oswald’s head when he was taken from the theater since, normally, you are supposed hide the identities of your operatives. In the meantime, other agents were retrieving evidence from our gal Ruth Paine’s house. These operations have to be wrapped up quickly before people start asking too many questions. After all, Afghanistan and al-Qaeda were identified as responsible for 9/11 by 7:30 PM on the evening of 9/11 by our own Judy Woodruff on our own NPR. Real investigations drag on for days, weeks, months and years while theater productions have to play out in the short attention span of a captive audience. The real shooter of Tippet, a veteran hit man (and Oswald look alike) who had helped put Castro in power while Castro was still a company man, was taken out the back of the theater (fifteen minutes after Oswald was taken out the front) by Captain Westbrook, (who was later transferred to work with the South Vietnamese secret police), and then flown out at 3:30 in the afternoon to an Air Force base along with an anti-Castro Cuban player taking off from a small former airport strip north of Dallas which was conveniently disappearing as a highway was being built. All’s well that ends well. Poor Mafia Capo Ruby had to follow Mafia orders to shoot Oswald the old fashioned way Sunday morning. He was reluctant, but obedient, and a car horn announced his arrival in the basement of the Police station signaling that Oswald was to be taken out and shot on live TV. Then poor Jacob Ruby got sick and died in prison because he was starting to talk too much to news men and people like Dorothy Kilgallen, who apparently did not know which side of the bread the butter was on and ended up mysteriously dead herself. Today, pretty much everyone in journalism is on board with the program. Especially the New Yorker, a very solid ministry mouthpiece.

    And, oh yes, the elderly driver of the Limo, Secret Service agent William Greer, was a Protestant Irishman who belonged to a secret Irish anti-Catholic order, devoted to fight Irish Catholics like the Kennedys. James Earl Files was not a shooter; he has his own con game running since he has nothing to lose. Frangible bullets you can make at home. And yes, the Remington Fireball could have been used by someone. But, as Noam Chomsky said about 9/11, “Who cares Who did it?” Ron feels the same way and doesn’t like these complicated puzzles with their many details which only interest Spooks, students of the evil all around us, and Conspiracy buffs.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @CanSpeccy
  399. What many researchers refuse or do not wish to consider in both investigating the assassination of JFK and the false flag attacks on 9/11 are the masonic , occultic and kabbalistic symbols purposefully incorporated which must be attributed to the perpetrators of these psyops. Such symbols are described by :
    SK Bain in ” The most dangerous book in the world : 9/11 as mass ritual ”
    Kent in “The Kentroversy papers : JFK Masonic killing ”
    James Shelby Downard with Michael Hoffman : ” King – kill 33 : Masonic Symbolism in the assassination of John F. Kennedy ”
    The Vigilant Citizen :” Symbols rule the World , Not words nor laws -The Kennedys the elite dynasty that got decimated ” :
    “When we look at JFK’s assassination through the eyes of the occult secret societies -who attach ENORMOUS importance to ritual , symbolism and numerology -powerful and undeniable facts stand out …[The assassination of Kennedy] was an occult ritual designed to solidify the elite’s power to control and to traumatize the masses and mark a new era in American history .” As was 9/11.

  400. @Sean

    It is astonishing how much Jews hate the Kennedys.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @utu
  401. Sean says:
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    I would think it was more a reflection of the lifestyle of a priest attracting men who are adverse to taking risks and weakly heterosexual or asexual, and bald men being more intelligent. John von Neumann was prematurely bald. Junior failed the bar exam twice

    .According to historian Thomas C. Reeves, author of “A Question of Character: A Life of John F. Kennedy,” in prep school JFK scored a 119 on an IQ test. Reeves told UPI, “Kennedy was at no time outstanding in school; spelling was always a problem for him.”

    These are very tiny correlations and to be clear it was found a gene implicationed in male homosexualty was very close to one known to be involved in MPB. which is largely due to sensitivity to DHT, a testosterone metabolite.

  402. Sean says:
    @Ivegotrythm

    Israeli Jews maybe. American Jews were prominent among his advisors and admirers. More Jews worked at cabinet level for Kennedy than any predecessor.Kennedy reversed Eisenhower’s State Department to increase arms sales to Israel. Kennedy presented as pro-Israel to US Jewry. It is true that he privately threatened to cut Israel off over their nuclear weapons program.

    • Replies: @Ivegotrythm
  403. utu says:
    @Ivegotrythm

    It is astonishing how much Jews hate the Kennedys.

    “It is human nature to hate the man whom you have hurt.” – Tacitus

  404. utu says:
    @Ivegotrythm

    “…many years later, the “stringing along” produced the story that a Secret Service man shot Kennedy by accident, so, yes, for those who think too much, it was not Oswald, it was the secret government like everyone thinks it was, but not deliberately.”

    Perhaps you could write down the list of other “stringing along” stories produced for those who think too much yet who can’t think. Or I just go read all Iris’s comments on JFK and 9/11.

  405. @Iris

    “I am not sure about the purpose of such a ludicrous question. ”

    The purpose is to try to make it look as though you made a ludicrous statement. Alden is a shill, though not a very effective one. She becomes annoying if you feed her any replies. Once I found that out, I put her on ignore so I could read the threads as though they are uncluttered by her trolling.

  406. @CanSpeccy

    “At the time, the nonsensical official account of Kennedy’s murder was unquestioned because none of those in a position to question it had any reason to do so. ”

    Also, there is the fact that the greatest number of people who questioned it had no voice at all in the news media of the day. Even those who may have arguably been in a position to question the official tale weren’t allowed an outlet.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @CanSpeccy
  407. @Sean

    I did not say that Kennedy hated Jews. I said it is astonishing how much Jews hate Kennedy.

  408. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ivegotrythm

    Was Chamberlain an “appeaser?” He, unlike Churchill the shill, did not want war …

    But … he was still sent off by the powers that be (he complained to foreign diplomats) to make a treaty with Poland … the trip mechanism that would bring on the desired shooting war sequence of WWII…

    Ja, das is richtig. LOL.

    And even though Chamberlain was Prime Minister and Churchill was a backbench MP since 1929, a man generally considered a has-been forced to pay his way by his pen, and even though it was Chamberlain who made the Treaty with Poland, and who later declared war on Germany, WWII was still

    the Jewish War carried on by Churchill as “Hitler’s War”

    Drivel.

    Until 1932, Britain had the ten year rule (i.e. a defense policy based on the assumption that there would be no major war for ten years) , first introduced by Churchill in 1919 and made “permanent” by Churchill in 1929, and terminated by the MacDonald government in 1932, when Churchill was out of office.

    In 1936, when Churchill called for the transition of the British economy for war preparation, the Soviets, intent on world domination, and having already succeeded in subverting China, the World’s most populous country, were already six years into a massive military buildup, as was Germany.

    Had not the Chamberlain government not instigated a massive build-up of the Royal Air Force in 1936, Britain would have been conquered by the Luftwaffe in 1941 and all of Western Europe would have been subjugated by the victor in the Russo-German war.

    In fact, Churchill’s war on Germany never happened. Russia and Germany bled one another to the point of exhaustion, and the Anglo-American invasion of Europe merely kept the enfeebled victor of that conflict out of Western Europe.

    • Replies: @Ivegotrythm
  409. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Twodees Partain

    Also, there is the fact that the greatest number of people who questioned it had no voice at all in the news media of the day.

    Of course. As I said, it was a poly-partisan conspiracy. Everyone who mattered hated Kennedy, so everyone was on board.

    Israel hated Kennedy for his intention to stop Israel’s nuclear weapons program;

    Johnson hated Kennedy for exploiting Johnson’s political support while treating Johnson with snobbish disdain — and of course, Johnson wanted the Presidency;

    The military despised Kennedy for his “cowardice” in doing a back-channel deal with Krushchev over the Cuban missiles rather than force a Russian back-down at the risk of a civilization-ending nuclear war;

    The CIA hated Kennedy for failing to send in the US Air Force when their Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba bogged down on the beaches;

    The Military Industrial Complex hated him for threatening world-wide peace.

    Kennedy was the biggest dumbest political loser of the 20th Century. He simply didn’t give a damn about making enemies of everyone. Thus they could strike him down without any questions being about even an obviously false cover story.

  410. Durruti says:

    Can Speccy

    Kennedy was the biggest dumbest political loser of the 20th Century. He simply didn’t give a damn about making enemies of everyone. Thus they could strike him down without any questions being about even an obviously false cover story.

    Everyone who mattered hated Kennedy, so everyone was on board.

    Your conclusion should be up top as an opening statement. Then back it up with facts & analysis.

    It is not clear if “Everyone who mattered hated Kennedy.” Certainly, Democraps, Republicants, and the Zionist Hollywood & other Mainstream Media, and the rest of the Zionist American Power Elite (C. Wright Mills term), have covered up the obvious Coup D’état, and subsequent crimes – since 11/22/1963.

    Those who cover up the worst crime in American history, ironically, (and unintentionally), point their fingers directly at the perpetrators. They are owned by, and therefore, serve the Terrorist Assassins.

    The final question is: How can we make this right? How may we Restore our Republic? Or, is all Hope – gone?

    I can answer for me.

    *I and friends – helped Mark Lane, author of “Rush to Judgement” move into his 5th Avenue office, which he set up in order to pursue his research. I was gifted a bound copy of his manuscript.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_to_Judgment

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @CanSpeccy
  411. Alden says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    A thousand books, a thousand theories. They’re very enjoyable as Len Deighton and John Lecarre’s Cold War thrillers are. Who knows? Who cares?

  412. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2007/03/11-seconds-in-d.html

    Oswald, who would promptly hit President Kennedy in the back at a distance of around 190 feet, and then in the head at a distance of 265 feet, manage to be so inaccurate on the first and closest of his shots? A first shot earlier than anyone has posited finally gives a plausible answer to that question, too. Approximately 1.4 seconds before Zapruder restarted his camera at frame 133, a horizontal traffic mast extending over Elm Street momentarily obscured Oswald’s bead on his target.[…] T.E. Moore, a Dallas County clerk who was standing on Elm Street. As Moore recalled in Larry Sneed’s outstanding book No More Silence, a 1998 compilation of oral histories about the assassination, “There was a highway marker sign [emphasis added] right in front of the Book Depository, and as the president got around to that, the first shot was fired.” […] Telling photos taken shortly after November 22 reveal that the “highway marker sign” cited by T.E. Moore was just a few feet west of the traffic light’s vertical post […] It was the panel’s next explanation, which tried to reconcile how a second shot might have been the errant one, that posited the notion of three shots in 5.6 seconds. Warren Report, 115, and Commission Exhibit (hereafter CE) 888, 18 Warren Commission Hearings (hereafter WCH) 86. Subsequently, the widespread and still popular belief that the assassination occurred in six seconds was given credence by a 1967 book with a sibilant title. The author posited “four shots from three guns in six seconds.” Josiah Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas: A Micro-Study of the Kennedy Assassination (New York: Bernard Geis Associates, 1967), 195.

  413. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Joe Kennedy Sr. seemed to have a fairly normal degree of MPB for his age:

    Joe Kennedy Sr. is the one who built the family fortune and positioned his family for politics. He engaged in high risk business activities to build the fortune such as bootlegging, Hollywood, insider stock trading, etc. I think I recall reading in a book long ago about the Kennedys about how Joe Sr. would seduce and sleep with teenage girlfriends his sons would bring over to stay at the family home.

    Joe Sr. wanted to be president himself, and hoped to succeed FDR in the White House. And he was quite reckless as Ambassador to the UK, publicly being quite warm to the Nazi regime, trying to secretly meet with Hitler and the regime against the wishes of the State Dept. and FDR.

    • Replies: @Sean
  414. I’m just awestruck at the ignorance I’m reading in this thread.

    First, the notion that Kennedy was anything other than a mediocre president is not supported by his record. Yes, he was well-liked and popular, despite winning the popular vote by a thin margin. But he held fairly common views for his party and his time. His policies and proposals were fairly banal. He was not out on the edge in any area – not on civil rights, not on welfare programs, etc., except perhaps with his over-the-top Cold War rhetoric when he first entered office. He quickly dialed that back, however, after taking the country to the brink of war with the Soviets.

    Second, Kennedy’s views on Arab nationalism were fairly common at the time. They were just an extension of FDR’s anti-colonial policies, which were in turn an extension of Woodrow Wilson’s idea of national self-determination. American-Jewish voters certainly didn’t hold those views against JFK, as they voted for him over Nixon by more than four to one. Even the well-known views of the Kennedy Patriarch were not held against the son among American Jews.

    A third and related point is that if Mossad wanted to murder an American president implementing tough anti-Israel policies, they would’ve moved against Eisenhower, not his successor. Ike’s intervention against not only Israel but France and Britain in the Suez Crisis, and his follow-up to ensure Israel fully complied with the relevant UN resolutions were probably the lowest point in U.S.-Israel relations between 1948 and the present day. Eisenhower didn’t do it to spite Israel, but to keep a wider peace in the Middle East and a modus vivendi with the Soviets, and to follow the ongoing, long-term bipartisan US policy of supporting nationalists over the European colonists. But Ike’s decision still went against Israel’s interests in a way that JFK never came close to doing.

    To reiterate, I just can’t believe the shit I’m reading in this thread.

  415. Alden says:
    @Iris

    I read Lifton’s book.

    As I remember the numerous conspirators had a well equipped surgeon on Air Force One who cut new wounds in Kennedy’s neck in full view of Kennedy’s aides and entourage the secret service military men and Mrs Kennedy.

    Neither Lifton nor his fans realize it’s very obvious that wounds made in dead bodies hours after the death don’t bleed. It’s very obvious the wounds are long post mortem. Unless the autopsy surgeons were in on it too; which of course they were

    A thousand books, a thousand theories each more ludicrous than the last. Were I interested in the killing of Kennedy, I’d investigate those family friends Oswald’s wife was living with during the killing.

    The wife was a Quaker who at the time were extremely hard left producing people like Kathy Boudin, Angela Davis and working closely with people like Faye Stender and Charles Garry’s defense of George Jackson and the Black Panthers.

    The husband was the son of the chairman of the American communist party’s Trotsky wing. And founded the Dallas branch of the communist party/ pornography front group, ACLU.

    And they just happened to be best friends of the Oswald’s.

    I was in college when Kennedy was killed. 1PM Texas time is 11AM California time. My 11AM class professor was very hard left. He was always organizing those summer trips south to protest segregation and Young Socialists etc. he bragged that he’d had to leave his previous job back east because of McCarthyism.

    Anyway, the first words that prof said was that Oswald was a patsy, the oil and steel industries and segregationists killed Kennedy.

    For the rest of the semester every leftist prof in America were already claiming Oswald didn’t do it.

    I did read the first book out. It was written by Mark Lane, yet another communist Jew. According to Lane, it was the FBI, secret service oil and steel industry KKK John Birch society the army CIA, Texas Dallas government and police who all conspired to kill Kennedy.

    Around 1990 a friend inherited her uncles house and contents She gave us several hundred books. There were maybe 50 60 who killed Kennedy books included.

    What a hoot and a holler.

    Most interesting thing was the chronology Mid 60s segregationists oil steel and federal agencies. Late 60s the army and CIA killed Kennedy to keep the Vietnam war going.

    Nixon impeachment revealed several Cubans worked for Nixon and Republicans. So suddenly it was the anti Castro Cubans who did it.

    One of the more insane theories was that the parents of actor Woody Harrelson did it. As soon as Harrelson became known, it was revealed that his father was a convicted assassin for hire. And he lived in Texas !!!!!! So Harrelson Sr did it.

    There’s even a book, Nemesis that claims Mrs Kennedy’s second husband did it. And that Mrs Kennedy and Onassis got engaged in September 1963 2 months before Onassis arranged the murder.

    There’s another book that claims the first rifle shot missed. The driver of the car turned around and used his handgun to shoot Kennedy in the throat. Some say the SS driver was part of the conspiracy. Some say the driver fired wildly and hit Kennedy accidentally and the SS covered it up.

    A thousand books, a thousand theories each crazier than the last.

    I was a kid during the whole Kennedy build up starting maybe 1957. All the women’s magazines from Vogue and Harper’s to Family circle glorified the Kennedy’s. The so called quality and general interest magazines featured Kennedy’s Kennedy’s Kennedy’s for years. 2 year old Caroline was even on the cover of Life or Look magazine.

    Maybe I was a dumb high school kid, but I couldn’t see any difference between the PR campaign of the Kennedys and the PR campaigns of Liz Taylor, Richard Burton, James Dean, and other movie actors of the time.

    A thousand books, a thousand theories.

    How about this one?

    1. Kennedy only became President thru widespread fraud in Chicago which threw the Illinois electoral votes to Kennedy.

    2. The economy was fine. The post war expansion was still going on.

    3. BUT Kennedy was a failed cold warrior. He whipped up anti communist sentiment but failed to do anything about communism. He tried to overthrow Castro and was humiliated. A few weeks after he met Khrushchev in Vienna the Russians built the Berlin Wall as a total statement that Russia was stronger than America led by Kennedy.

    4. 1963 polls revealed Kennedy would have a hard time winning in November 1964. Endless fashion shots of his wife wouldn’t do it any more

    5. So the Kennedy’s decided an attempted assassination in front of his wife would help win the 64 election and provide an excuse to dump Johnson.

    6. Unfortunately Kennedy was killed. So the Kennedy machine just chugged along planning for first Robert, then Ted to be president

    That’s as good a theory as any of the other thousand theories.

  416. Ron Unz says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I’m just awestruck at the ignorance I’m reading in this thread….A third and related point is that if Mossad wanted to murder an American president implementing tough anti-Israel policies, they would’ve moved against Eisenhower, not his successor…To reiterate, I just can’t believe the shit I’m reading in this thread.

    Unfortunately, it sounds like you’re someone who’s never bothered looking into the issue. I find this fairly common among rightwing-HBD types who for some reason seem particularly averse to “conspiracy theories.”

    There’s a gigantic difference between the Eisenhower and JFK situations. Eisenhower had a fully-unified US government/elite behind him, while JFK had (for a variety of reasons) made a huge number of very bitter, almost mortal enemies, including his VP LBJ, important elements of the CIA, J. Edgar Hoover, top leaders in organized crime, and rightwing anti-Castro types. Successfully assassinating a US president is vastly easier if major elements of the US power-structure would support your project and the president’s successor would ensure that it was covered up.

    I can’t say whether you’d find my analysis convincing, but if you haven’t already done so, you might really want to take a look at a couple of my articles on the subject:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-i-what-happened/

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-jfk-assassination-part-ii-who-did-it/

    • Agree: CanSpeccy, Justvisiting
  417. Alden says:
    @Durruti

    Rush to Judgement, another Book of Lies by a leftist Jew. Laugh out loud. How naive can you be? Spanish communists, Mark Lane.

    The brain of a liberal is a sink. Every once in a while liberal central committee opens the plug and drains out the current lying propaganda. Then the plug is put back in, the tap is turned on and the latest liberal propaganda fills the empty brain.

    From communist dictators and massacres in Spain to civil rights for all but Whites in America to transsexuals and puberty blockers for 9 year olds. Liberals!!!!

    • Replies: @Durruti
    , @Hibernian
  418. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Durruti

    Your conclusion should be up top as an opening statement. Then back it up with facts & analysis.

    Which is how I thought I had arranged my statement: facts first, then conclusion, which seems the normal logical order of things.

    Perhaps you overlooked my statement of facts.

    As for:

    The final question is: How can we make this right? How may we Restore our Republic? Or, is all Hope – gone?

    May I offer these words attributed to Omar Khayyám:

    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    • Replies: @Durruti
  419. utu says:
    @Pincher Martin

    “…they would’ve moved against Eisenhower, not his successor.”

    So are you staying that Mossad could have killed Eisenhower before their 1956 Suez adventure? Because after the Suez fiasco there was no point of coming against Eisenhower . Killing on this level are preemptive not punitive. But perhaps Israel learned form the Suez fiasco that American presidents can be dangerous to Israel. And this time they also got a clear indication that American president would definitively obstruct their most important national security enterprise so they decided to kill kim before he could kill their nuclear program.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  420. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    Yes, in my comment above concerning Kennedy’s contempt for almost everyone, I forgot to mention Bobby Kennedy’s determination to destroy the Mafia, and JFK’s fling with Mafia mol Judith Exner (It was the Mafia, according to Gore Vidal who carried out the hit.). Then there were the anti-Castro Cubans. But what I don’t understand is J. Edgar Hoover’s animus. But maybe it was just Kennedy’s manner.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  421. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    I find this fairly common among rightwing-HBD types who for some reason seem particularly averse to “conspiracy theories.”

    Because they haven’t found a conspiracy gene, yet? No, it is because they are on the autistic spectrum (Sailer, Cochran) and thus easily fall into the trap of scientism. They like Ordnung and when playing with their toy soldiers all soldiers must be accounted fort and lined up in the plain sight.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  422. @Ron Unz

    There’s a gigantic difference between the Eisenhower and JFK situations. Eisenhower had a fully-unified US government/elite behind him, while JFK had (for a variety of reasons) made a huge number of very bitter, almost mortal enemies, including his VP LBJ, important elements of the CIA, J. Edgar Hoover, top leaders in organized crime, and rightwing anti-Castro types.

    People hate each other in politics all the time. If hate was the sole motivation for politicians killing each other, there would be no end of murders in the Washington metro area. America political life would resemble the Italian Renaissance when the Borgias were at their peak.

    Kennedy gave no special reason for anyone to murder him that distinguishes him from any other president in the 20th century. Kennedy’s murder was political, as Oswald was certainly political, but his assassination falls into the same absurdist category as Truman’s would’ve been had he been murdered by Puerto Rican nationalists. More of a “Say what?” instead of a “Oh yeah, that follows.”

    The theorists in this thread, including you, are trying to provide Kennedy’s death with far more significance than it deserves. But there was no major policy disagreement in his administration that was so strong that only his death would remove it. Kennedy had run-of-the-mill political views on most subjects. He certainly wasn’t a danger to the system or to Israel.

    As for LBJ, which seems to be your pet theory about the assassination, Robert Caro, the man who spent the majority of his adulthood researching Johnson’s life and typically assigned dark motives to his quest for power, had this to say: “…nothing I have found in my research leads me to believe that whatever the full story of the assassination may be, Lyndon Johnson had anything to do with it…”

    • Replies: @Ivegotrythm
    , @utu
    , @Ron Unz
  423. S says:

    I’m appreciative of the OP’s elaboration upon the potential symbolism of the ‘Chamberlain umbrella’ in regards to the assassination. Indeed, looking at the photo, the described umbrella may well have been one of the very last things that Kennedy saw while alive on this earth.

    As some others have mentioned, understanding the ideologies and, or, ‘founding myths’, held by powerful elements of the elites and hangers on of the various peoples potentially involved in major historical events (ie the JFK assassination) is quite useful in helping to unravel what may have occurred if questions remain.

    Those ideologies and ‘myths’ are often in effect part of the rationalization for the actions taken. While these beliefs are often not important to us per se, it is important to them. [It’s why in regards to the Anglosphere I occasionally mention ‘British Israel’ and the ‘New Rome’ for instance.]

    To the ‘progressive’ US/UK establishment the ‘Chamberlain umbrella’ is historically a hated symbol of weakness, appeasement, and failure, and though we may well never know for sure, it’s not at all impossible that it was deliberately placed there as a humiliating ‘witness’ to Kennedy’s assassination.

    Related to this, it’s long been thought by some that certain major historical events have been ‘foretold’ in the media, indicating foreknowledge, if not foreplanning, ie in regards to 911 there was the movie ‘Fight Club’ and the provacitively named ‘Lone Gunman’ TV series pilot. Upthread at entry 54 I’d mentioned the ‘lost’ Route 66 episode which closely paralleled the actual JFK assassination though it had been filmed prior to it’s having taking place.

    Left unmentioned, there was another prior Route 66 episode broadcast in 1962 which ‘foreshadowed’ Kennedy’s assassination called ‘Love is a Skinny Kid’. An excellent copy is available and free for viewing on the internet.

    The opening scenes show a Texas highway sign prominantly diplayed with the cities of Dallas, Waco, and Kilkenny on it. The sign has the number ‘3’ next to Kilkenny indicating three miles to go to that destination. Indeed, the fictitious town of Kilkenny, TX is where all the action will take place.

    Obviously enough, Kilkenny reads disconcertingly like ‘Kill Kennedy’, ‘3’ is remindful of the three purported shots fired in the Kennedy assassination, and Dallas, TX is of course where the terrible event transpired.

    Was there more regarding this episode potentially linking it with JFK? Yes, a great deal more.

    While Kilkenny is a wholly fictional Texas town, it is a very real place in the Republic of Ireland, the original homeland of the Kennedy family. Kilkenny is both the name of an Irish county and the namesake of its county seat. JFK would have known County Kilkenny well as it borders his own family’s paternal place of origin County Wexford.

    The Kennedy family homestead at the village of Dunganstown, just outside the city of New Ross, is more or less right alongside this border formed by the Barrow River, County Kilkenny just across the river being merely a figurative ‘stone’s throw’ away.

    Kennedy would make a triumphal visit (pictured below) to the family homestead at Dunganstown in a four day trip to Ireland in June, 1963.

    As to the plot (spoilers here) regarding the aforementioned Route 66 episode, it centers upon a young woman named ‘Miriam’. She grew up in Kilkenny, TX, but as a misunderstood young child had been poorly treated there and rejected by many, finally being in effect cast out of the small town all together and placed in an asylum by her mother against her will. Finally, Miriam is thought to have died and is forgotten about by most in the town, a gravestone erected at the town’s cemetary in her memory.

    However, she is alive, and many years later Miriam has finally gained her release from the asylum. Though somewhat angry and bitter, and initially hiding her true identity, she returns to Kilkenny as a beautiful young woman and confronts the town’s people, both collectively and as individuals, in regards to what they did to her.

    Tod and Buz, outsiders to the town, help her to deal with the past and to ameliorate some of the anger she has. Lastly, having done what she set out to do, and free now of the past, Miriam is given a lift out of the town in Tod’s corvette.

    Miriam in Jewish teaching was a prophetess, a person who could foretell the future. As Moses sister, she along with her brother, led the Jewish people (specifically the women in regards to Miriam) out of bondage in Egypt.

    Was the opening scene of this episode, with the stark Kilkenny/Dallas road sign and the number ‘3’, Miriam figuratively as a prophetess ‘foretelling’ Kennedy’s assassination? Could the JFK assassination in certain quarters have been seen as part of confronting the past and perceived wrongs committed by some, and ‘correcting’ them, thus paralleling the theme of this 1962 episode?

    Was the fictitious town of Kilkenny, TX, and it’s townspeople as a whole in regards to Miriam, a representative of Pharoa/Amalek keeping her in bondage and stopping her progress to the freedom of a ‘promised land’, in the same way Joseph P Kennedy Sr and his family descendants may have been seen by some amongst the Jewish people in regards to them?

    And, yes, Herbert B Leonard, the executive producer of Route 66, was Jewish.

    http://www.kennedyhomestead.ie/the-homecoming/

    https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0690469/plotsummary?ref_=m_tt_ov_pl

    • Replies: @Ivegotrythm
    , @utu
    , @S
  424. @CanSpeccy

    The British call it “Hitler’s War” implying that Hitler was responsible. It was Britain and France that attacked Germany; however, this was not the choice of the people. They were ordered to so by those evil powers, which are not indigenous, that already controlled those countries and continue to control them and their minds to this day. The Germans said the Allies were “fighting for the Yid.”
    Were they right? Chamberlain said, privately, “The Jews forced me to make the treaty with Poland.” Eisenhower said he asked American soldiers if they knew why they were in Europe. 95% said they did not know why. So, why where they there? Were they slaves? You could say so. WW II was not in the interest of any of the belligerents. It was only in the interest of the Jews. Therefore someone else than the governments and the people of the countries involved was calling the shots, and you know who that was. If you don’t understand, don’t call it “drivel.” You are not in a shtetl. Schmuck.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @CanSpeccy
  425. @S

    Very interesting observation. Those who control events and peoples use “predictive programming” to establish precedents and provide role modeling in order to direct reaction to a future programmed event and to control the behavior of those involved. But, in addition, life is a kind of hallucination, and that is why the Hindus call the created world “samsara” a garden of illusions.

  426. @utu

    So are you staying that Mossad could have killed Eisenhower before their 1956 Suez adventure? Because after the Suez fiasco there was no point of coming against Eisenhower. Killing on this level are preemptive not punitive. But perhaps Israel learned form the Suez fiasco that American presidents can be dangerous to Israel. And this time they also got a clear indication that American president would definitively obstruct their most important national security enterprise so they decided to kill kim before he could kill their nuclear program. [My emphasis in bold.]

    In the aftermath of the Suez Crisis, Eisenhower pushed for weeks if not months to get the Israelis to comply with UN resolutions involving the Sinai. He then spent the next three years in office where he would’ve been a potential problem for the Israelis if something new popped up.

    Kennedy knew about Dimona and its potential for nuclear weapons development as soon as he entered office, but other than brief intermittent diplomatic pushes and some U.S. inspections of the facility (which continued for years after JFK’s death), he did nothing about it. If Kennedy couldn’t do anything significant about Dimona in nearly three full years in office, what would’ve made the Israelis believe he was ready to do so in his fourth? Or even afterwards?

    Kennedy had few options, and the Israelis knew it. The US-Israel relationship at the time was not as critical to Israel as it would later become. Kennedy had ended the U.S. arms embargo to Israel, but they were not yet a major arms supplier to the Jewish state. France, who was helping them develop Dimona, was considered a more reliable ally, both militarily and financially.

    Was a U.S. preemptive strike against Dimona at the time ever really an option? No, it was not. Can you imagine how Kennedy would’ve sold that to the American public and especially to his Jewish supporters? The dispute was entirely below the American public’s radar and Israel had never even privately disclosed what Dimona was for.

    • Replies: @utu
  427. Hey Mister S!

    So the other meaning of Kilkenny, eh? And how this obscure ‘Merikan town became subject to early Zion “Predictive Programming.” 🤔And to be later on mastered by producer Arnon Milchan’s🇮🇱”The Lone Gunman.”

    Your comment is my favorite on this entire article thread!👍 Am planning to make a copy, keep, and display it to my thoughtful friends, two of whom are un-meek Irish-American, & who shall be fascinated by the Jew, Leonard’s, production of the all but forgotten “Route 66.”

    Thanks very much, Mister S!

  428. @Pincher Martin

    Yup, Kennedy worship here is out of hand. JFK, had he been re-elected would have proven to be a mediocre president at best. But who are we to let the facts get in the way of a good story? Mark Twain’s old saying: “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience” rings true in this comment section.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Ivegotrythm
    , @NoseytheDuke
  429. utu says:
    @S

    Very interesting. What about the ‘lost’ episode?

    • Replies: @S
  430. @CanSpeccy

    Yes, in my comment above concerning Kennedy’s contempt for almost everyone, I forgot to mention Bobby Kennedy’s determination to destroy the Mafia, and JFK’s fling with Mafia mol Judith Exner (It was the Mafia, according to Gore Vidal who carried out the hit.). Then there were the anti-Castro Cubans. But what I don’t understand is J. Edgar Hoover’s animus. But maybe it was just Kennedy’s manner.

    I love reading Gore Vidal, but who can take his political views seriously? This is a man who at the end of his life became adoring pen pals with Timothy McVeigh.

    I’m not a big fan of the late Christopher Hitchens, but his description of Vidal in Vidal Loco hits the mark:

    …I have now just finished reading a long interview conducted by Johann Hari of the London Independent (Hari being a fairly consecrated admirer of his) in which Vidal decides to go slumming again and to indulge the lowest in himself and in his followers. He openly says that the Bush administration was “probably” in on the 9/11 attacks, a criminal complicity that would “certainly fit them to a T”; that Timothy McVeigh was “a noble boy,” no more murderous than Generals Patton and Eisenhower; and that “Roosevelt saw to it that we got that war” by inciting the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor. Coming a bit more up-to-date, Vidal says that the whole American experiment can now be described as “a failure”; the country will soon take its place “somewhere between Brazil and Argentina, where it belongs”; President Obama will be buried in the wreckage—broken by “the madhouse”—after the United States has been humiliated in Afghanistan and the Chinese emerge supreme. We shall then be “the Yellow Man’s burden,” and Beijing will “have us running the coolie cars, or whatever it is they have in the way of transport.” Asian subjects never seem to bring out the finest in Vidal: he used to say it was Japan that was dominating the world economy, and that in the face of that other peril “there is now only one way out. The time has come for the United States to make common cause with the Soviet Union.” That was in 1986—not perhaps the ideal year to have proposed an embrace of Moscow, and certainly not as good a year as 1942, when Franklin Roosevelt did join forces with the U.S.S.R., against Japan and Nazi Germany, in a war that Vidal never ceases to say was (a) America’s fault and (b) not worth fighting.

    For some years now, the old boy’s stock-in-trade has been that of the last Roman: the stoic eminence who with unclouded eyes foresees the coming end of the noble republic. Such an act doesn’t require a toga, but it does demand a bit of dignity. Vidal’s phrasings sometimes used to have a certain rotundity and extravagance, but now he has descended straight to the cheap, and even to the counterfeit. What business does this patrician have in the gutter markets, where paranoids jabber and the coinage is debased by every sort of vulgarity?

  431. @Alden

    IMHO, you got closer to the truth in #5 than you realize: So the Kennedy’s decided an attempted assassination in front of his wife would help win the 64 election and provide an excuse to dump Johnson.
    http://mileswmathis.com/barindex2.pdf

  432. utu says:
    @Ivegotrythm

    Don’t be to harsh CanSpeccy. Not infrequently he writes very good comments. But everybody has soft spots where he may sacrifice his integrity. For CanSpeccy it is his take on British history while for Alden, who also often writes good comments, the problem is her hate of Democrats and Liberals and whatnot. Furthermore take into account that you are dealing with very senior citizens in both cases.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  433. @Johnny Walker Read

    Even an idiot can understand that avoiding war between the US and the USSR, and especially achieving a basis for some kind of long term peace, is a good thing.

    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  434. Scranton Pennsylvania Calling Laurent Guyenot!
    (sirens going off🤔)

    As your terrific article comment thread mightily winds down, please listen to Jim Jenkins speak credibly (below) on the Bethesda Naval Hospital’s autopsy undertaking & findings on… uh, er, JFK’s corpse?

    Am figuring you have yet to overdose on the Drugged Nightmare on Elm Street.😏 Thank you.

  435. @Alden

    IMHO, you came closer to the truth in #5 than you realize: So the Kennedy’s decided an attempted assassination in front of his wife would help win the 64 election and provide an excuse to dump Johnson.
    http://mileswmathis.com/barindex2.pdf

  436. @utu

    Because they haven’t found a conspiracy gene, yet? No, it is because they are on the autistic spectrum (Sailer, Cochran) and thus easily fall into the trap of scientism. They like Ordnung and when playing with their toy soldiers all soldiers must be accounted fort and lined up in the plain sight.

    Conspiracy theorists probably ought not to be the first ones in a discussion to bring up autism or even the social graces. I’ve yet to meet a conspiracy theorist who could get through a dinner hour without picking his nose and wiping the product on the fine linen.

    Go all the way back to Mark Lane and Jim Garrison, and you’ll find bug-eyed weirdos putting forward implausible story after implausible story.

    I ask you, in all seriousness, would you buy a used car from this pipe-smoking man?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  437. If any survivors left here are interested, below & fyr, is googled information on who was JFK’s 🤔autopsy official at Bethesda.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=who+was+the+autopsy+official+at+betnda+hospital+kennedy+assassination&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

  438. utu says:
    @Pincher Martin

    BS. JFK was engaging in a putting diplomatic pressure. It worked to the point that Ben Gurion resigned. The next step would be more pressure. Like going public. Referring Israel to the UN. This surely would turn Israel into a pariah state in the eyes of world public opinion and would lead to killing the Dimona project w/o your straw man of the preemptive strike. You are trying too hard. Are you arguing this line of arguments because you are HBDist as Ron Unz indicated or because you are also a Jew?

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Pincher Martin
  439. S says:

    Regarding the 1963 Route 66 episode ‘I’m Here to Kill a King’ (mentioned upthread at entry 54) which though filmed prior to Nov 22 closely paralleled the actual JFK assassination, there is something I’ll add.

    ‘Killing the king’ is a motif within Freemasonry and Kennedy as president (and treated at times ‘like royalty’) was a figurative ‘king’ of the United States.

    In addition, the Kennedy family are thought to be descendants of a literal medieval Irish royal dynasty in Ireland, the O’Kennedy’s, the ‘Kings of Ormond’, and is why their modern coat of arms granted in the very early 60’s (below) closely resembles the ancient heraldry of those kings.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Kennedy

  440. @Pincher Martin

    The Israelis certainly perceived Kennedy’s forbidding them to have nuclear weapons as a fatal danger that had to be removed. Assassination is their favorite final solution. After the assassination of JFK the growth of the “invisible government,” that is, at the time, the CIA controlling all government jobs and all portals was very noticeable. The assassination was definitely a major turning point, unless you consider coup d’etats in America humdrum business as usual. Since then, elected representatives and officials have no power except to tweet. The CIA controls the US of A as much as the KGB controls Russia. But the invisible government has factions. And one faction suspects that WW III is not in their interest and, secondly, not in the interests of the US. They sponsored Trump, such as he is, as a bump on the road to Armageddon. It remains to be seen if they can outmaneuver the forces of Gog and Magog. Another big question is who will the military obey? The Democrats and the Deep State, with its soft mouthpiece the New Yorker magazine are doing their best to discredit Trump as CIC.
    LBJ was certainly not an important factor in the assassination. But the conspiracy had to co-opt him and make him a guilty party in order to control him and make the aftermath smooth going. And he was a very willing tool. LBJ ducked when his limo entered Dealey Plaza.

    • Replies: @Daniel Rich
  441. @Johnny Walker Read

    I see it as America worship rather than Kennedy worship. Tracy Chapman sang, “they killed the dream of America” and so it was that the belief in a “good” America died that day for a great many citizens so the importance and effect of what was a blatant and violent coup cannot be overstated. Strauss and Howe (The Forth Turning) refer to the assassination of JFK as one of the pivotal events of the saeculum that began after the end of WWII and is drawing to a close soon, or at least we are in the forth turning or quarter which always ends in destruction.

    Every factual detail is important, however small as indeed it is a small world after all and seemingly unimportant players can turn out to reveal links to those who did pull the strings and also reveal those who couldn’t possibly have pulled it off. Clearly there were separate teams involved and one has to read just about everything to be in a position to sort out what is real and what is not.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Johnny Walker Read
  442. Durruti says:
    @Alden

    Rush to Judgement, another Book of Lies by a leftist Jew. Laugh out loud. How naive can you be? Spanish communists, Mark Lane.

    From communist dictators and massacres in Spain to civil rights for all but Whites in America to transsexuals and puberty blockers for 9 year olds. Liberals!!!!

    Your statements condemn you and identify you. Naive does not accurately explain you.

    There are only Communist dictators in your world. You front for Hitler, Mussolini, Batista, Machado, Franco, and the Zionist Oligarchs. The massacres in Spain occurred after the victory of Franco,s Military (which was supported by not only Hitler & Mussolini, but Roosevelt and Churchill. a perusal of American & British media at the time will prove that point.

    America and Britain refused even to sell arms to the Spanish Republic! At the same time, Hitler & Mussolini sent troops, and weapons to aid General (Dictator) Franco. Your ‘Jews’ supported Franco, and Hitler, & Mussolini. My Buenaventura Durruti and his Anarchists fought on the side of the Spanish People. Your admired Dictator, Franco, was part Jewish. That should upset a Racist such as you – mightily.

    https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t18705/

    And there are numerous other sources.

    • Replies: @Alden
  443. Durruti says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Yes, Omar, words help, sometimes.

    I prefer Yeats:

    “But where can we draw water,”
    Said Pearse to Connolly,
    “When all the wells are parched away?
    O plain as plain can be
    There’s nothing but our own red blood
    Can make a right Rose Tree.”

    Durruti

  444. geokat62 says:
    @utu

    Are you arguing this line of arguments because you are HBDist as Ron Unz indicated or because you are also a Jew?

    More likely, s/he is arguing this line of arguments because s/he is HBDist as Ron Unz indicated and because s/he is also a Jew.

  445. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ivegotrythm

    The Germans said the Allies were “fighting for the Yid.”

    Chamberlain said, privately, “The Jews forced me to make the treaty with Poland.”

    To carry conviction, you need to provide some sources.

    Of course some Germans may have said the Allies were “fighting for the Yid”, but it seems most unlikely. As with the Germans, the Brits were not specially enamored of the Jews.

    What many Brits did care very much about, Churchill among them, was the Empire, and Britain’s status as a great power. Even more, and except for the Commies, almost universally, they cared very much for their independence.

    All of those things were threatened by the Soviets, an expansionist tyranny which openly avowed world revolution and which, through the Commintern, funded the British Communist Party, Bolshie Labour Union leaders and the Communist newspaper, the Daily Worker.

    What was to stop the Soviet Union, by far the largest and most populous political entity in Europe, from rolling West and taking everything in its path? The Soviets sure didn’t hesitate to invade Finland, Poland, the Baltic Republics. Why do you think they had no desire to extend Communist rule from the Pacific to the Atlantic?

    The real war in Europe was not between Britain and Germany, but between Russia and Germany. British independence survived the war because the struggle with Germany brought the Soviet forces to a virtual standstill.

    But although the German resistance to the Western advance of the Soviets ensured the continued independence of France and Britain, it was vital to the Western powers that Germany lose the struggle with Russia, since she might otherwise manage to gather to herself all the resources of the Soviet Union and turn Westward, thereby almost certainly achieving domination of the entire European continent.

    As for Chamberlain and the Polish treaty, why, if the Jews forced Chamberlain to sign the treaty, did the Jews not compel Chamberlain to abide by the terms of the treaty, dropping bombs not leaflets over Germany? Because, I suggest, Germany’s invasion of Poland brought Germany into direct contact with Russia, the necessary precondition for the annihilating war that immediately followed and, since Hitler made the first move, a war reasonably dubbed Hitler’s war.

    • Disagree: utu
    • Replies: @ivegotrythm
    , @utu
  446. @utu

    BS. JFK was engaging in a putting diplomatic pressure.

    What pressure? Talks? What specifically were Kennedy’s policy options if talks failed?

    Meeting with an Israeli leader and saying “Gosh, I really wish you guys would stop this” is not much of an option when the other side is committed to their action.

    First, the Israelis never admitted to the Americans (or the rest of the world) what they were doing. Only the French knew for sure. Yes, the Americans were pretty sure about what was happening. It certainly looked suspicious. But the U.S. and Israel were still negotiating in the absence of such unequivocal knowledge.

    Second, the Israelis gave in to American demands for inspections at Dimona – and yet those inspections revealed nothing because the Israelis were able to cover up what they were doing.

    What then could Kennedy do? The next step would’ve been unilateral sanctions, multilateral sanctions, or some sort of public move at the U.N., and there’s no evidence that the Kennedy administration was seriously considering any such move beyond holding up aid to the Jewish State when JFK was killed.

    And that’s for all the good it would’ve done.

    Are you arguing this line of arguments because you are HBDist as Ron Unz indicated or because you are also a Jew?

    Jew? What an odd inference.

    I’m about as WASPy a fellow as the U.S. can possibly produce. I’ve even been accused of anti-Semitism because I don’t like Jewish influence on U.S. policy – not just Israeli influence, but Jewish.

    I just don’t believe Jews are the root of all evil, as some here do. I also don’t truck in conspiracy theories when plenty of other commonsense theories account for what happened.

    And what does HBD have to do with this topic? I’m interested in U.S. policy and politics for their own reasons, and not for how they necessarily apply to anything related to HBD. And in this case, I can’t even think of how HBD would apply.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  447. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Don’t be to harsh CanSpeccy.

    Yes, quite right, thank you. A little deference is always appreciated.

  448. S says:
    @utu

    Very interesting. What about the ‘lost’ episode?

    The Route 66 ‘lost episode’ is described at the link below. It references the ‘I’m Here to Kill a King’ episode filmed in October, and scheduled for broadcast the next month on Nov 29, 1963, a week after the assassination.

    Due to its so closely paralleling the actual assassination it was removed from the line up and wasn’t broadcast until many months later.

    Some of the parallels are:

    1) a country’s chief executive is to be assassinated, 2) the gunman is to do it with a clean headshot fired by a scoped sniper rifle, 3) the executive’s own security services are the ones behind the plot 4) it is pre-planned that the assassin will be gunned down himself before he can talk

    5) a ‘patsy’/’fall guy’ Oswald like character has a body double/doppelganger who is the actual assassin. The Oswald like character is told he has been involved unwittingly (‘strings being pulled’ behind the scenes) as his workplace is at the assassination site. 6) A man investigating the plot is gunned down in his car by the assassin in the same way Officer Tipper was.

    ‘Lee’ and ‘Dallas’ are name dropped in the episode dialogue.

    There is an underlying ‘911’ parallel of Arabs, ‘ground zero’, and New York.

    The dialogue on the boat (at about the thirty minute mark) between the Oswald like patsy character and body double is of particular interest. The body double elaborates that there had been multiple other plans to assassinate the chief executive.

    I’ve still not described all the numerous parallels with the JFK assassination, but, it’s easy to see why the episode quickly became ‘lost’ and is even now not too widely known about.

    Under the episode title ‘I’m Here to Kill a King’ YouTube has a pristine copy available which is free to view.

    http://niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2013/Sep3/lostepisode.html

  449. geokat62 says:

    Jew? What an odd inference.

    I’m about as WASPy a fellow as the U.S. can possibly produce.

    Well, what do you know? Turns out Incitatus has a doppelgänger… who knew!

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  450. Alden says:
    @Durruti

    I admire Franco very much. Only the naive and credulous admire the Russian communist Spanish government he overthrew. Franco wiped out the American communist carpetbagger Abraham Lincoln Brigade. Wonderful!!!!!!

    And Mark Lane what an idiot you are. Bet you believe Mike Brown of Ferguson fame was a sweet innocent gentle giant gunned down by an evil racist White KKK cop.

  451. @Pincher Martin

    What then could Kennedy do? The next step would’ve been unilateral sanctions, multilateral sanctions, or some sort of public move at the U.N., and there’s no evidence that the Kennedy administration was seriously considering any such move beyond holding up aid to the Jewish State when JFK was killed.

    And that’s for all the good it would’ve done.

    Following up, where’s the evidence, before November 22nd 1963, that LBJ was more amenable to letting the Israelis continue with developing nuclear weapons? How could Mossad know that killing JFK would lead to the result it hoped for?

    In fact, the U.S. inspections at Dimona continued until 1969, for all the good they did. If Kennedy had lived, would those inspections have been more vigorous? Who knows? Maybe. Maybe not. But even if they had been more vigorous there’s no reason to believe they would’ve worked.

    Kennedy also didn’t initiate U.S. non-proliferation norms. That began before he ever took office with Eisenhower’s “Atoms for Peace” speech and the U.S.-led establishment of the IAEA in 1957.

    And that’s the main problem I have with the people in this thread. They assume discontinuity in U.S. policy rather than continuity. But continuity in U.S. policy is more the norm. The idea of President Kennedy representing a major break in any U.S. policy with previous and future U.S. presidents is just ahistorical. And then to further assume that Kennedy’s policies were such a danger in their novelty that hordes of individuals, groups, institutions, and countries were all lining up to kill him is just absurd.

  452. @geokat62

    Well, what do you know? Turns out Incitatus has a doppelgänger… who knew!

    I’m not familiar with your little incestuous circle, so you’ll have to clarify whether a comparison to Incitatus that’s good or bad.

    • Replies: @geokat62
  453. utu says:
    @Pincher Martin

    “Kennedy’s murder was political, as Oswald was certainly political, but his assassination falls into the same absurdist category as Truman’s would’ve been had he been murdered by Puerto Rican nationalists.”

    What if Truman was killed by the letter bomb sent by the Mossad/Stern gang? Would that fall into the same absurdist category as well?

    https://www.nytimes.com/1972/12/02/archives/letterbombs-mailed-to-truman-in-1947-truman-was-sent-bombs-book.html

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Pincher Martin
  454. Alden says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Kennedy was the first affirmative action anti White president . March 6 1961 soon after inauguration he signed Executive Order 10925 that all federal agencies “ take affirmative action” to hire black employees and black government contractors. He hired 50 affirmative action blacks into high positions in the executive branch. He ostentatiously ordered the secret service to find a black for the secret service White House detail.

    He pressured for a black superintendent of the DC public school system and desegregation/ destruction and bussing of the DC public schools, thus condemning White children to years of verbal and physical abuse by black tout.

    He favored affirmative action as much as Johnson and Nixon.

    Kennedy was the first affirmative action president. Affirmative action is the government’s most effective weapon against Whites.

  455. Ron Unz says:
    @Pincher Martin

    As for LBJ, which seems to be your pet theory about the assassination, Robert Caro, the man who spent the majority of his adulthood researching Johnson’s life and typically assigned dark motives to his quest for power, had this to say: “…nothing I have found in my research leads me to believe that whatever the full story of the assassination may be, Lyndon Johnson had anything to do with it…”

    Ha, ha, ha. And brilliant Harvard geneticist Richard Lewontin conclusively proved that “Race Does Not Exist!”

    There seems an absolute mountain of evidence that LBJ had been involved in massive corruption schemes in Texas, activities that had made him one of the wealthiest men in America by the time he became VP and seemed to involve quite a number of murders. Meanwhile, JFK hated LBJ and was on the verge of purging him from the ticket and (probably) having him sent to prison over his corruption. Once LBJ became president, he totally reversed all our policies towards Israel.

    As for the involvement of Israel/Mossad, there’s a remarkable pattern of behavior as I noted in one of my articles last year (which provides all the individual links):

    Certainly no other nation in the world can remotely match Israel’s track-record of remarkably bold high-level assassinations and false-flag attacks, terrorist and otherwise, against other countries, even including America and its military. Furthermore, the enormous dominance of Jewish and pro-Israel elements in the American establishment media and increasingly that of many other major countries in the West has long ensured that even when the solid evidence of such attacks was discovered, very few ordinary Americans would ever hear those facts.

    The pattern of behavior is really quite remarkable. Even prior to the establishment of the State of Israel, the various Zionist factions assassinated Lord Moyne, the British Minister for the Middle East, and Count Folke Bernadotte, the UN Peace Negotiator, and made unsuccessful attempts to kill President Harry S. Truman and British Foreign Minister Ernest Bevin, while even discussing the possible assassination of Prime Minister Winston Churchill. There seems considerable evidence that the Israeli Mossad subsequently played a central role in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy because of the enormous pressure he was applying to persuade Israel to abandon its nuclear weapons development. Mossad defector Victor Ostrovsky warned the American government that Israel was planning to assassinate President George H.W. Bush in the early 1990s due to the bitter conflict over financial aid, and apparently those warnings were taken seriously. As recently as 2012, the editor of the largest Jewish newspaper in Atlanta publicly called for the assassination of President Barack Obama over his policy differences with Israel.

    The history of military and terrorist attacks is even more striking. One of history’s largest terrorist attacks prior to 9/11 was the 1946 bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem by Zionist militants dressed as Arabs, which killed 91 people and largely destroyed the structure. In the famous Lavon Affair of 1954, Israeli agents launched a wave of terrorist attacks against Western targets in Egypt, intending to have those blamed on anti-Western Arab groups. There are strong claims that in 1950 Israeli Mossad agents launched a wave of false-flag terrorist bombings against Jewish targets in Baghdad, successfully using those violent methods to help persuade Iraq’s thousand-year Jewish community to emigrate to the Jewish state. In 1967, Israel launched a deliberate air and sea attack against the U.S.S. Liberty, intending to leave no survivors, and ultimately killing or wounding over 200 American servicemen before word of the attack reached our Sixth Fleet and it was called off.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-911-conspiracy-theories/

    If you don’t believe that Israel deliberately attacked the U.S.S. Liberty in 1967, you should investigate the event. If you do, then their involvement in the assassination of JFK (in collusion with very powerful American figures) hardly seems so astonishing.

    • Agree: geokat62
  456. Ron Unz says:
    @utu

    In discussing the JFK assassination with skeptics, I think it’s very important to determine where they stand….

    My impression is that the overwhelming majority doubt the existence of any strong evidence for a “conspiracy” and vaguely believe that Oswald was probably the lone gunman. Obviously, it’s pointless and even counter-productive to argue about Mossad or LBJ until someone admits the strong likelihood of a “conspiracy” and the references worth citing are entirely different ones.

    However, once such an individual changes his mind about a conspiracy, he’s often so shocked and astonished that his mind opens wide, and I think it’s far easier to point to the overwhelming (if circumstantial) evidence pointing towards LBJ and/or Mossad as playing the central role.

    Basically, once you accept the existence of a “conspiracy” certain datapoints become very crucial while you can totally ignore the endless chaff about how many gunmen were standing in what location.

    That’s exactly why I broke my JFK article into two different parts.

  457. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Pincher Martin

    Conspiracy theorists probably ought not to be the first ones in a discussion to bring up autism or even the social graces. I’ve yet to meet a conspiracy theorist who could get through a dinner hour without picking his nose and wiping the product on the fine linen.

    Go all the way back to Mark Lane and Jim Garrison, and you’ll find bug-eyed weirdos putting forward implausible story after implausible story.

    I ask you, in all seriousness, would you buy a used car from this pipe-smoking man?

    I watched all of two minutes of that video and the pipe-smoking man did not pick his nose even once.

    I think you just don’t like pipe smokers. But you gotta remember, that vid was shot in the Sixties, when pipes were fashionable. Almost everyone on the Left smoked a pipe. Bertrand Russell, UK Prime Minister Clement Atlee, Prime Minister Harold Wilson, Tony Wedgewood Benn, MP.

    It’s not that these people liked to smoke a pipe, Wilson said he actually loathed to smoke a pipe and only did so in public, much preferring a cigar in private. But a pipe provided a sort of furniture for the face.

    And you realize that the man asking the questions, William F. was CIA. He had worked at the US Embassy in Mexico under Howard E. Hunt, who made a deathbed confession to playing a part in the conspiracy as a bench warmer.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  458. geokat62 says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I’m not familiar with your little incestuous circle…

    I’m sure Incy is busy lurking in the shadows of some UR comment thread. I’m confident, however, he’ll soon drop by to introduce himself and say “hello.” He’s been quite forlorn ever since his soul mate has departed from UR. I think he’ll be very pleased to make your acquaintance, as you seem to have much in common.

  459. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    However, once such an individual changes his mind about a conspiracy, he’s often so shocked and astonished that his mind opens wide, and I think it’s far easier to point to the overwhelming (if circumstantial) evidence pointing towards LBJ and/or Mossad as playing the central role.

    LBJ was central inasmuch as, once the deed was done, he became the boss of the CIA, the professional assassination agency that surely undertook or outsourced the killing. Therefore, his attitude was central. Without a nod from the President-to-be, no one surely would have been so foolish as to go ahead with the scheme.

    And it may be that Israelis and American Jews were the chief operatives. But it was, as you have noted above, the fact that just about everyone hated Kennedy that made it possible for Johnson to give the go ahead without fear of a reaction that could expose him to the charge of treason.

  460. @Ron Unz

    Ron:

    I have found most skeptics about the JFK assassination “conspiracy” are skeptics about conspiracy theory in general.

    The first step, imho, is to convince them that major conspiracies can happen and the secret can be kept.

    My new favorite “former conspiracy theory now accepted as conspiracy fact by _everyone_” is this one:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/confirmed-the-us-census-b/

    –This “conspiracy” was widely believed by “average people” (that .gov couldn’t be trusted to keep the information confidential) but totally denied by all “experts” and “authority figures” for six decades
    –No whistleblower _ever_
    –Hundreds if not thousands of .gov employees knew about it
    –No major media outlet investigated it until the data was uncovered by independent researchers
    –All establishment media today agree it is a fact

  461. @CanSpeccy

    I think you just don’t like pipe smokers. But you gotta remember, that vid was shot in the Sixties, when pipes were fashionable. Almost everyone on the Left smoked a pipe. Bertrand Russell, UK Prime Minister Clement Atlee, Prime Minister Harold Wilson, Tony Wedgewood Benn, MP.

    Smoking the pipe is not the clincher for me … although what sort of douchebag smokes a pipe during a TV interview? It’s Lane’s snake oil salesman’s appearance and attitude.

    Still, a point of order. Your examples are all Brits, and two of them were born in the 19th century – Clement Attlee (b. 1883) and Bertrand Russell (b. 1872).

    Mark Lane was born in the Bronx in the nineteen-twenties. Conspicuously smoking a pipe on TV was a weird affectation for someone of his background.

  462. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    Here is what Joe Kennedy actually said, he rambles a bit but there is no sympathy for Hitler at all.

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/kennedys-democracy-finished/

    “It’s all a question of what we do with the next six months. The whole reason for aiding England is to give us time. Whatever we give England, we shouldn’t think of getting it back. It’s insurance. We can pull the teeth of the William Allen White Committee and of the anti-English groups, too, by just not arguing at all. We can just accept whatever they say, and our answer is, ‘It’s just one question, self-preservation for us, England is doing everything we could ask. As long as she is in there, we have time to prepare. It isn’t that she’s fighting for democracy. That’s the bunk. She’s fighting for self-preservation, just as we will if it comes to us.’

    “I don’t draw any line on how much aid. It is a practical question of judgment, how much to send. It is a question of how long England can hold out. If she collapses soon, then stop.

    One must never forget that in WW1 the US entered the war against Germany even though the German Jews were fighting for it. In both World Wars America entered because it looked like Germany was about to win and for no other reason. Germany could not be allowed to attain European hegemony and in time become World Island global hegemony. No leadership of the US could permit that.
    —-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Fitzgerald

    https://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/balding-genetics

    If your mom’s dad is bald, then there’s a high chance you’ll go bald in the future! If your father is bald as well, then those chances go up even more! But even if baldness doesn’t run in your mom’s family, it’s still possible you’ll go bald.

    There are a lot of traits on the X Chromosome. Basically, a lot of what the Kennedy brothers were came through their mother. There is no arguing that Junior had a extraordinary head of hair for a white man, that this characteristic was long ago suggested to be more common in criminals, and that a very recent genetic study seemed to point to a connection between genes known to be implicated in baldness and homosexualty. Not a big connection by any means. Nonetheless, Junior had the hair of his father and was also considered to be extremely handsome. Also like him he was prone to take risks and not think through the danger he was putting his wife in. I think these last two are the reasons that baldness is relatively common in the most advanced European countries.

    Oswald took his first shot 11 seconds before the killshot. The first shot was when Kennedy was closest but it hit a overhanging traffic mast.

    https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2007/03/11-seconds-in-d.html

    One irony here is that the Warren Commission, early in its investigation, recognized that the first shot could well have taken place before Zapruder restarted his Zoomatic. Buried deep in the 26 supplementary volumes to the Warren Report is a reference to what the Commission staff labeled “Position A.”[30] It was defined as a moment that did not appear on the Zapruder film, but represented the “first point at which a person in the sixth floor window of the Book Building . . . could have gotten a shot at the president[‘s back] after the car had rounded the corner.”[31] According to our calculations, Oswald realized what the Warren Commission labeled “Position A,” and squeezed off his first shot, just before the horizontal traffic mast fleetingly obscured the president’s body at 1.4 seconds prior to Z 133.[32] A first shot at this juncture means that Oswald fired three shots in an elapsed time of approximately 11.2 seconds, with intervals of around 6.3 seconds and 4.9 seconds between the shots.[33] The Warren Commission might be faulted here, but only for failing to pursue an early insight to its logical conclusion and neglecting to mention “Position A” in its final report.[34]

  463. @Justvisiting

    I have found most skeptics about the JFK assassination “conspiracy” are skeptics about conspiracy theory in general.

    Of course criminal conspiracies can and often do happen. There are laws against them on the books. Conspiracy to murder. Conspiracy to fraud. Conspiracy against the United States. Etc. People go to jail every year for conspiring to commit some crime.

    But the people like myself who are skeptical about most conspiracy theories are skeptical not because we don’t believe in conspiracies but because most modern conspiracy theorists cook up such wildly implausible tales that it’s quite easy to dismiss them.

    And then there’s the type of person who seems naturally attracted to conspiracy theories. The person who believes Kennedy was assassinated by LBJ is usually the same person who believes FDR knew about the bombing of Pearl Harbor in advance and who believes 9/11 was an inside job and who believes that RFK was killed by some conspiratorial plot and who believes aliens are being kept locked up at some US military base. And on and on and on.

    And then there’s the lack of focus to some conspiracy theories. How many different individuals and agencies have been blamed for Kennedy’s murder, for example? The mob. Castro. Anti-Castro Cubans. Commies. Soviets. FBI. CIA. The U.S. military. Right-wingers. LBJ. Mossad. Take your pick or build a combo (the mob *and* the CIA, for example) that fits your need.

    Who wouldn’t be skeptical about such nonsense?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @ivegotrythm
    , @Alden
  464. @utu

    This is the first I’ve heard about it. Sounds like an amateur-hour anarchist operation more concerned with spreading random terror than actually assassinating the president. Did they really believe Truman opened his own mail?

    In any case, you can hardly say that the Stern Group was far-sighted in recognizing Truman’s danger to the nascent Israeli state, which is exactly what some here are claiming as to Mossad and Kennedy.

  465. anon[101] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Wasn’t he nicknamed ”Black Jack” because he was on the down low?

  466. Dube says:
    @Ron Unz

    Basically, once you accept the existence of a “conspiracy” certain datapoints become very crucial while you can totally ignore the endless chaff about how many gunmen were standing in what location.

    It’s called science, Ron. Forensic science. Including ballistics. You’ve never done any material investigation?

    Thanks to Iris for the note on the more favorable location of the Dal-Tex building. Although the map of the kill area makes me wonder why a shooter from Dal-Tex might not have fired sooner.

    While waiting on that point I muse distantly on the endless chaff attempting to explain the retrograde motion of the planets. Lots of steady footwork on cold floors and stiffened backs on hard chairs.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Alden
  467. @Ron Unz

    Basically, once you accept the existence of a “conspiracy” certain datapoints become very crucial while you can totally ignore the endless chaff about how many gunmen were standing in what location.

    I think the difference is in how the two groups approach the history. Do they typically view the conspiracy theory from outside in or inside out?

    The skeptic often starts from a wider perspective on politics and policy, and then works down to the conspiracy theory, which is why he usually finds it implausible. The theory just doesn’t jibe with what he already knows.

    The conspiracy theorist works backward. He usually starts with a notion of the conspiracy and then builds on it by reading more general history that he thinks is pertinent to it. That’s why he finds his theory not just plausible, but obvious. He usually doesn’t even think of policy as something that is practiced every day except when it’s refracted through his conspiracy. Hence, Kennedy becomes a civil rights martyr or a peace-loving President about to give those Israelis hell about their nuclear program if Mossad hadn’t gotten to him first or a Commander-in-Chief who is set to leave Vietnam when a military junta kills him.

    That’s why the conspiracy theorist finds ominous and foreshadowing some pro forma letter sent out by the bowels of the bureaucracy or some campaign speech that the candidate forgot about two months after he gave it. That “data point” shouts out to the conspiracy theorist in a way that it does not to anyone else because he’s already seen the end of the movie, so to speak.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @NoseytheDuke
  468. @Ivegotrythm

    The CIA controls the US of A as much as the KGB controls Russia.

    As Russia now has the FSB [Federal Security Service] [Link to Russian Governmental web site], I wonder whether you either meant the FSB [today] or actually refer to the KGB [in the past]?

    • Replies: @ivegotrythm
  469. @CanSpeccy

    I think you mean “Samuel Untermyer’s War,” don’t you?

  470. @Pincher Martin

    This is just a collection of falsehoods and utter nonsense masquerading as a “serious” comment. So called conspiracy theorists do not start with a notion and work backwards, you made up that stupid rubbish yourself. Most crimes of all types are the result of a conspiracy of some sort, and that includes most minor crimes too. Only a naive coincidence theorist fool would automatically assume that a conspiracy was not worthy of being considered. Given the fact that governments lie and mislead far more frequently than ever they are truthful it would seem to be prudent to assume nothing while being skeptical of everything what is being told us by our media and our leaders.

    The official narrative on JFK, that he was killed by LHO, a crazed lone gunman is fine for those who still believe in Santa and Tooth Fairies but after even a cursory look into the matter it just doesn’t hold up, just as the official narrative with 9/11 doesn’t either. Many facts need to be excluded in order for such simple explanations to take hold, that and a simple mind or a very dishonest one.

    I didn’t understand geokat’s reference to Incitatus and yourself at first but it’s clear that disingenuous is as disingenuous does.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  471. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I agree with one thing only from what you wrote that Chamberlain played Hitler and Poland beautifully by directing Hitler East and setting the stage for the eventual clash of Hitler with Stalin. This war scenario was outlined by William Bullit already in 1938 which may indicate that the screenplay was written in Washington and thus the unsourced Chamberlain’s quote “The Jews forced me to make the treaty with Poland,” to which you object, might be true.

    …Roosevelt and Bullitt were the major factors in the British making their guarantees to Poland and becoming involved in the war. Kennedy said that Bullitt, under instructions from Roosevelt, was constantly urging the Poles not to make terms with the Germans and that he Kennedy, under instructions from Roosevelt, was constantly urging the British to make guarantees to the Poles.

    He said that after Chamberlain had given these guarantees, Chamberlain told him (Kennedy) that he hoped the Americans and the Jews would now be satisfied but that he (Chamberlain) felt that he had signed the doom of civilization.

    Kennedy said that if it had not been for Roosevelt the British would not have made this most gigantic blunder in history.

    Kennedy told me that he thought Roosevelt was in communication with Churchill, who was the leader of the opposition to Chamberlain, before Chamberlain was thrown out of office…. – Hoover

    As the Soviet Union’s potential strength is not yet known, it might happen that Germany would have moved too far away from its base, and would be condemned to wage a long and weakening war. Only then would the democratic countries attack Germany, Bullitt declared, and force her to capitulate.

    In reply to my question whether the United States would take part in such a war, he said, ‘Undoubtedly yes, but only after Great Britain and France had let loose first!’ – Potocki on Bullitt in 21 November 1938 cable to Warsaw

    From Hoover’s book we see what was the meaning of the Umbrella Man. Joseph Kennedy was against the war, against giving Poland guarantees and thus against 1939 version of Chamberlain who was pressured by Bullitt and Roosevelt and presumably by Jews and thus Joseph Kennedy was for 1938 version of Chamberlain from Munich appeasement for which Chamberlain became known in the popular culture.

    But was Chamberlain v. 1938 really different from Chamberlain v. 1939? Actually not. In order for Hitler to be dragged into a major war Hitler had to acquire the armament industry of Czechoslovakia first. That’s why the appeasement in 1938 was necessary. So there is no contradictions.

    The decision to drag Hitler into a war was made much earlier before 1938. There was only one version of Chamberlain and one version of Britain’s foreign policy which was not the appeasement but facilitating Hitler on his way to war. Chamberlain was creating the path of minimal resistance for Hitler to send Hitler in the direction where Roosevelt or the Deep Sate (Jews) of 1938 wanted him to be.

    The famous quote of Churchill “You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war” can thus be unpacked as follows: if it takes dishonor to have the war that we want to have, so be it. Honor was never a part of our British ethos anyway. Let honor play a role among less evolved nations so they are easier to be manipulated by us.

    Exhibit A: Poland

    Peace is a precious and a desirable thing. Our generation, bloodied in wars, certainly deserves peace. But peace, like almost all things of this world, has its price, a high but a measurable one. We in Poland do not know the concept of peace at any price. There is only one thing in the lives of men, nations and countries that is without price. That thing is honor. – 5 May 1939 speech by Józef Beck, 1 month and 5 days after Britain issued guarantees to Poland

    • Replies: @S
    , @CanSpeccy
    , @Incitatus
  472. Ron Unz says:
    @Pincher Martin

    And then there’s the type of person who seems naturally attracted to conspiracy theories. The person who believes Kennedy was assassinated by LBJ is usually the same person who believes FDR knew about the bombing of Pearl Harbor in advance and who believes 9/11 was an inside job and who believes that RFK was killed by some conspiratorial plot

    Ha, ha, ha… Since you’re apparently an HBD-person, here’s a rough analogy of what you’re saying:

    “The sort of person who believes that “Race exists” seems naturally attracted to all sorts of other discredited theories and probably believes that there are only two genders rather than seventeen and that its impossible for a man to give birth and nurse his infants. Indeed, such an individual may even suspect that some groups might be smarter than other groups.”

    As a very minor tidbit, it sounds like you’re not aware that the memoirs of LA Coroner Thomas Naguchi revealed that RFK was shot at point-blank range from behind, while absolutely everyone agreed that Sirhan Sirhan was standing several feet in front of him when he opened fire.

    Multiply this “discrepancy” a thousand-fold, and you’d have the contents of my long American Pravda series. Indeed, it sounds like you’re the exact target-audience.

    Here’s the original article, which is a good place to start:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/our-american-pravda/

    And here’s a link to the entire series:

    https://www.unz.com/page/american-pravda-series/

    If you stumble across five or six seemingly major anomalies in the “official narrative,” it’s reasonable to assume that they’re mere outliers, and can be explained by factors you just haven’t considered. But once you discover five or six *hundred* such anomalies, the official narrative loses all credibility.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Pincher Martin
  473. @Justvisiting

    Global Research : “53 Admitted false flag attacks ” :
    “There are many documented {and admitted} false flag attacks , where a government carries out a terror attack…and the falsely blames its enemy for political purposes .” Will our government ever admit that 9/11 and the assassination of JFK were false flag attacks ?

  474. @Ivegotrythm

    Another commenter who is too lazy or biased by his love for a false hero to actually read and understand what Kennedy meant to achieve by signing into law The Arms Control and Disarmament Act of 1961, 22 U.S.C. § 2551.
    Some beliefs are the hijacker of reason, rationality, intelligence and logic, others are the products of egoism, biases, prejudices or preferences. – Dr T.P.Chia.

  475. @NoseytheDuke

    IMHO Kennedy was more a traitor than a hero, and the “rest of the story” is never told. I’m sure I will be reviled and ridiculed for the below video, but that’s all right, I’m used to it.
    “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” – George Orwell

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  476. Sean says:

    Naguchi revealed that RFK was shot at point-blank range from behind

    But there is no question it was a .22 LR Kennedy was killed with. A professional would never have selected such a weapon.

    If you stumble across five or six seemingly major anomalies in the “official narrative,” it’s reasonable to assume that they’re mere outliers, and can be explained by factors you just haven’t considered. But once you discover five or six *hundred* such anomalies, the official narrative loses all credibility.

    A conspiracy theory has to meet the same burden though.
    For example
    1. There is a serious coordination problem with having two assassins taking their guns out and aiming them and both firing at the same instant when neither could be sure the other had a clear shot or even had their gun out.

    2. If RFK was shot at point-blank range from behind, while absolutely everyone agreed that Sirhan Sirhan was standing several feet in front of him when he opened fire, then the real kill shot would have come from an assassin behind Kennedy while he was being shot at from the front, and thus the assassin behind would be in danger of being shot in the head, because Bobby Kennedy was only 5’9” (and Thane Caesar was not a midget).

    There are a lot of anomalies in the official narrative (why else the Warren and House assassination inquiries) and each anomaly has a particular conspiracy theory that resolves theaparrent inconsistency. If you draw on the conspiracy literature eclectically it looks as though the official narrative has too many holes. However one cannot cherry pick several anomalies in the official story that multiple separate alternative theories better explain and then use this to sink the official narrative as having too many anomalies. Otherwise you have a double standard. It has to be the single theory that best fits the facts..

    • Replies: @Sean
  477. S says:
    @utu

    ..Chamberlain played Hitler and Poland beautifully by directing Hitler East and setting the stage for the eventual clash of Hitler with Stalin.

    Fits in perfectly with the hypothesis set forth by Guido Preperata in his book Conjuring Hitler. Not surprisingly, he quickly found himself ‘unpersoned’ by the US/UK ‘progressive’ establishment.

    https://www.amazon.com/Conjuring-Hitler-Britain-America-Third/dp/074532181X

  478. @Pincher Martin

    Misleading arguments. It is very easy to see that Oswald did not shoot Kennedy. There may be a thousand wrong theories of who did, and conspirators themselves will actively promote false theories to throw off suspicion from themselves as was the case with the Kennedy assassination. But that does not change the initial conclusion and means there was, indeed, a conspiracy. That there are false theories does not prove that true theories do not exist. But not only are such arguments misleading, they are deliberately misleading. This is the problem with Dualists. They are incapable of conceiving of truth, any truth, in the first place. It is a kind of curse, for themselves and for others.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  479. @Daniel Rich

    Is there any difference between the KGB and the FSB besides the name? The RFK bridge is still the Triboro, and the Koch is still the Queensboro. Most Germans still call the Mercedes the Daimler. A kiss is still a kiss, a sigh is still a sigh as time goes by.

  480. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    This war scenario was outlined by William Bullit already in 1938 which may indicate that the screenplay was written in Washington and thus the unsourced Chamberlain’s quote “The Jews forced me to make the treaty with Poland,” to which you object, might be true.

    The claim may or may not be true, but it is highly improbably and therefore, stated without evidence of its truth, is unworthy of consideration. It is improbably since it would prove Chamberlain to have been both a wimp and a traitor, neither of which characterizations seem plausible to me.

    My assumption, on the contrary, is that Chamberlain’s actions were intended solely to serve British interests without regard for the interests of any other race or nation. However, that does not mean that there were no Jewish interests pushing for the same course of action for their own reasons, but that would not have caused Chamberlain to attribute his own actions to that cause.

    The main significance, it seems to me, of the idea that Chamberlain sought to appease Hitler was to conceal the objectives of British policy, which was to set the Germans against the Soviets, and to give moral justification to Britain’s entirely self-serving war policy.

    • Disagree: utu
  481. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    PM’s contempt for conspiracy theories raises three questions:

    1. Does he even know what the arguments are that underlie the theories he rejects. For example, does he know of David Chandler’s analysis of the collapse of WTC7?

    2. If he knows the conspiracy theorists arguments, does he:

    (a) Reject the claimed facts on which they are based, or

    (b) Reject the analyses that have been made on the basis of the claimed facts.

    If (1), then his position is not interesting.

    If 2 (a), then on what basis is his claim made? Potentially, this is an interesting question, if he is prepared to make a case for the Internet having been flooded with fake videos showing, for example, the collapse of WTC 7, or statements about JFK’s injuries by Parklands Hospital surgeons.

    This really is the fundamental epistemological question of the age. How much reliance can be placed on colored dots on a video display?

    If 2(b), then he has to debunk the analyses. If that is what he sets out to do, he will no doubt be able to debunk many nonsensical arguments that have been made both about the Kennedy assassinations and 9/11 — nonsensical arguments some of which may have been put into circulation for the purpose of discrediting conspiracy theorists (to offer a conspiracy theory for PM’s consideration). But can he debunk David Chandler, Nils Harrit or the application of Newton’s Law of the Conservation of Momentum to the time course of the collapse of the Twin Towers?

    Perhaps PM will enlighten us as to his position.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
  482. @Ron Unz

    Ha, ha, ha… Since you’re apparently an HBD-person, here’s a rough analogy of what you’re saying:

    “The sort of person who believes that “Race exists” seems naturally attracted to all sorts of other discredited theories and probably believes that there are only two genders rather than seventeen and that its impossible for a man to give birth and nurse his infants. Indeed, such an individual may even suspect that some groups might be smarter than other groups.”

    The analogy with HBD doesn’t work. Most HBD beliefs were both the scientific consensus and common belief until the 1920s and in some cases as late as the 1970s. They lost ground not because science proved they were wrong (although some were) but because the culture changed and made such beliefs difficult to publicly hold.

    Most conspiracy theories start off as ad hoc stories to compete with the official narrative. Unlike HBD, they didn’t start off as the official narrative. Conspiracy theorists then poke holes in that official version, sometimes to provide the opening for a different narrative (e.g., the mob did it), but often just to show that the official view can’t possibly be right.

    Multiply this “discrepancy” a thousand-fold, and you’d have the contents of my long American Pravda series.

    The value I see in your work is the openness you have toward allowing others to write about and debate these subjects that other publishers won’t touch. In a society where such freedom is decreasing, that’s not trivial work.

    But allowing the freedom to write about and discuss some of these subjects doesn’t elevate them if they can’t elevate themselves. They still have to stand on their own. The official version might have a lot of holes in it, but it can still be the best possible version of what most likely happened.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  483. @NoseytheDuke

    This is just a collection of falsehoods and utter nonsense masquerading as a “serious” comment. So called conspiracy theorists do not start with a notion and work backwards, you made up that stupid rubbish yourself.

    I made it up? Just read this thread. It is littered with comments about how JFK was a uniquely special president because that’s the typical way most conspiracy theorists justify the need for a sophisticated conspiracy to murder him.

    The only way a conspiracy theorist can reach that interpretation about Kennedy’s presidency is by ignoring the historiography surrounding it. He was not a special president. He was not a danger to entrenched interests. He represented continuity, not a break in continuity.

    Once a conspiracy theorist understands Kennedy was not a special president, it becomes much harder for him to justify a sophisticated conspiracy to kill him. The raison d’être falls apart.

    That’s why most conspiracy theorists have to work inside out. They don’t read conventional books on Kennedy’s presidency … or any presidency for that matter. They don’t read conventional books on most policy areas. They don’t read conventional histories of the Civil Rights Era.

    Their reading is mostly about spooks and conspiracies. And when that is your primary reading material, it’s natural to believe that’s the way the entire world works.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Ron Unz
  484. @ivegotrythm

    Misleading arguments. It is very easy to see that Oswald did not shoot Kennedy.

    I think it’s pretty clear Oswald shot Kennedy.

    I think it’s pretty clear that Sirhan Sirhan shot Robert Kennedy.

    I think it’s pretty clear that the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by Arab terrorists and not an inside job.

    Sadly, the focus by you conspiracy theorists on the more lurid conspiracy theories throws everyone off the more likely conspiracies, which happen frequently when those in government, in the wake of a tragedy, quickly cover up their own incompetence.

    I just don’t have much patience for those who want to talk about, say, the planned demolition of the World Trade Center buildings, but I certainly would listen to those who wanted to talk about why the Bush administration was so quick to cover their ass from the charge of criminal neglect by saying that it was impossible for them to understand the potential threat from al Qaeda despite the evidence that was building up in the 1990s that the group was gunning for us.

  485. peterAUS says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Be that as it may, you could, maybe, take a look at Oswald and his relationship with CIA.
    Follow his career path from joining the Marines to the very day of the assassination. There is even an obscure book about it nobody debunked so far.

    Two elements there:
    He did have a handler after his return to the USA. It appears the handler kept a rather close contact with him.

    So, three options:
    1. The handler and his superiors were incompetent; they didn’t see it coming. Well……
    2. They saw it coming but didn’t act on it. Gross negligence?!
    3. They actually “led” Oswald into the event.

  486. @peterAUS

    Be that as it may, you could, maybe, take a look at Oswald and his relationship with CIA.

    I’ve read Posner’s book Case Closed, and I found it convincing.

    But more importantly (and I’m glad to see you do it here), I agree with Posner’s premise for his book: Any person trying to figure out what happened on November 22nd has to start with Oswald. Whether you believe Oswald shot Kennedy or not, whether you believe Oswald acted alone or was part of a conspiracy or was just a patsy, you have to start with him because he is too central to the story to ignore.

    And when you look closely at Oswald’s life, as Posner did, you see that the most likely story is that Oswald acted alone. Whatever the Warren Commission’s mistakes, they basically got it right.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  487. Ron Unz says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Just read this thread. It is littered with comments about how JFK was a uniquely special president because that’s the typical way most conspiracy theorists justify the need for a sophisticated conspiracy to murder him…Once a conspiracy theorist understands Kennedy was not a special president, it becomes much harder for him to justify a sophisticated conspiracy to kill him.

    This is absolutely correct, and exactly the reason I had previously emphasized upthread that the “JFK hagiography” that permeates so many JFK-conspiracy people severely undercuts their credibility and greatly weakens the effectiveness of all JFK conspiracy advocates. So I do hope that some of those JFK people read your comment. But truth should not be judged by the company which it keeps.

    You’re apparently an HBD guy, or a believer in what the MSM would denounce as “scientific racism.” Indeed, the MSM would surely make the (entirely correct) point that many of your beliefs are also held by ignorant KKKers and violent neo-Nazis. But would you consider that a valid argument?

    My guess is that you’re some sort of rightwing engineer-type or something like that. But perhaps I’m mistaken and you’re actually a toothless hillbilly in the KKK, dreaming of lynching blacks just like your great-grand-papa used to do…

  488. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Pincher Martin

    I think it’s pretty clear Oswald shot Kennedy.

    I think it’s pretty clear that Sirhan Sirhan shot Robert Kennedy.

    I think it’s pretty clear that the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by Arab terrorists and not an inside job.

    LOL. Those are avowals of faith, not arguments in justification of faith.

    Do you not understand the difference?

    And if you do understand the difference, do you not understand that conspiracy theorists reject the official arguments in justification of faith, and can therefore, be rebutted only by dealing with the arguments, not by assertions of faith?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  489. @peterAUS

    Haha. To Pincher Martin, Dirty PeteyAUS instructed: “Be that as it may, you could, maybe, take a look at Oswald and his relationship with CIA.”

    (zzZigh) Jack Ruby Rubinstein “could” and did take a good last look at LHO. 🙄

  490. Ron Unz says:
    @Pincher Martin

    The analogy with HBD doesn’t work. Most HBD beliefs were both the scientific consensus and common belief until the 1920s and in some cases as late as the 1970s. They lost ground not because science proved they were wrong (although some were) but because the culture changed and made such beliefs difficult to publicly hold.

    Actually, the analogy with HBD is absolutely perfect…

    If you’d bother reading some of my American Pravda articles, you’d discover that many, many of the “conspiracy theories” I discuss were once very widely held and publicly advocated by many of America’s most highly-regarded (and fully mainstream) journalists, academics, government officials, and top military officers, and even widespread across the MSM. In an exact HBD analogy, those positions were never really disproven, but their advocates were gradually purged over time and “the culture changed and made such beliefs difficult to publicly hold.”

    Incidentally, you might also be interested in knowing that many dozens of reasonably prominent mainstream journalists and academics are on my personal distribution list, and every now and then I get a friendly note from some of them. For example, just a few weeks ago a very eminent (mainstream) political scientist (whose name you would certainly recognize) happened to mention that he reads all my articles “religiously.”

    Assuming you’re just some sort of rightwing engineer-type with a strong interest in HBD and a casual interest in history, many of the individuals I’m talking about are probably 10x or even 100x more knowledgeable and authoritative in the subjects I discuss than you are. So why should I care what you think?

    Since it’s public information, I can mention that one of my old friends was the late Bill Odom, the three-star general who ran the NSA for Ronald Reagan. Unless you’re actually someone like “Michael Hayden” I think you’re totally out of your league.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  491. peterAUS says:
    @Pincher Martin

    So, looks like it, in your opinion, it was either of:
    1. The handler and his superiors were incompetent; they didn’t see it coming.
    2. They saw it coming but didn’t act on it.
    I guess 1 as a favorite.

    I tend to see 2. as the most likely. As “if it works fine, if not we didn’t know….”.

    Still leaving the
    3. They actually “led” Oswald into the event.
    as a possibility. Sort of mix with the 2. As “feels like an opportunity; let’s encourage, even nudge him a bit”.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Pincher Martin
  492. Iris says:
    @Dube

    Thanks to Iris for the note on the more favorable location of the Dal-Tex building. Although the map of the kill area makes me wonder why a shooter from Dal-Tex might not have fired sooner.

    The Dal-Tax building being the main sniper nest is, of course, not my idea. I did a lot of homework because I wanted to base my opinion on rational arguments and facts, not just jump to conclusions.

    The ballistics of the assassination shots was carefully studied by many researchers, from the day of the JFK tragedy happening. It proved without any possible doubt that only the Dal-Tex Building could have been the source of the shots to the back of JFK and of the missed shot on Main Street.

    The Dal-Tex building being the most favourable location was so overwhelmingly obvious that this famous photo, taken from its fire escape staircase, was published by the Saturday Evening Post just after the assassination.

    Their publishing of this photo shows they clearly did not believe the shots had come from the 6th floor of the TSBD, but from a lower trajectory.

    On a side note, the killer was believed to have been accidentally captured in this James Altgens’ photo, showing an arm coming of the 1st floor window, and a dark-skinned (“Cuban”?) spotter sat on the catwalk staircase.

    The absolute centrality of the Dal-Tex building in the Kennedy assassination is of course completely dismissed, or ridiculed as last resort by the Zionists and their supporters, because the Dal-Tex was entirely under control of the Dallas affluent Zionist elite.

    • Disagree: Alden
  493. Sean says:
    @peterAUS

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-power-of-organized-crime/
    Someone brought to my attention the work of investigative journalist Gus Russo, a prominent author on that topic

    Russo on Oswald, Casto and the Kennedys

    https://www.americanheritage.com/did-castro-ok-kennedy-assassination

    He became an aggressive “self-recruiter,” and his first attempt to impress had its genesis at a February 13, 1963, party in Fort Worth, thrown by Russian immigrants. One of the other guests, a German intellectual, inadvertently inspired Oswald in his plans to impress the Cubans. As the party guests grew increasingly concerned over Oswald’s aggressive remarks about President Kennedy, the German attempted to divert Oswald’s hatred toward a local race-baiter—and fervid anti-Castroite—the retired Gen. Edwin Walker, who lived in Dallas. One month later Oswald ordered a cheap pistol and an Italian rifle by mail. After much reconnaissance of Walker’s upscale home, Oswald took a shot at him from his fence line on April 10, 1963, as Walker sat inside by a window.

    The Kennedys had had Walker thrown in a mental asylum of course. Oswald was as volatile as sweating dynamite.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  494. Alden says:
    @Pincher Martin

    A thousand books a thousand theories. What really turned me against the whole I Know Who Killed Kennedy genre was the persecution of Clay Shaw. His crime was to be a tall 60 ish white haired White man.

    At some point before the assassination Oswald was spotted standing near a tall, 60 ish white haired White man. Et viola!!!!!!!
    Clay Shaw conspired To Kill Kennedy.

    Plus Shaw was alleged gay which had something to do with something.

    Jury took less than an hour to find him not guilty of anything.

    A thousand books a thousand theories. Has anyone yet come up with a book proving that it wasn’t Jack Ruby Who Killed Oswald?

    Israel’s atom bombs, LBJ becoming president and pro Castro Oswald killing Kennedy before Kennedy invaded Cuba again are the only theories that make sense. Because they all benefitted the Israel nuclear facility, LBJ, Castro and his numerous admirers.

    • Replies: @Alden
  495. peterAUS says:
    @Sean

    Well, as I’ve posted a couple of times in this pub already in previous “JFK stuff” here, it’s simple:

    The handler was taking notes. He was reporting to his superior. Both of them had notes about those meetings. The superior did the same with his boss. That is simply how that work is done.
    SOMEWHERE in those notes a literate person can see all of it.

    No notes? Well…well…why not? Follow that lead……
    “They weren’t taking notes”. Hahahaha…….that’s fine. How was your weekend?

    Then, those notes, in any semi-decent outfit, get archived somewhere. There are records about it.
    “Wait…they got destroyed”. Really? When? How? Who ordered it? Who did it?

    Not that resident kooks care about those investigative possibilities.
    Understandable.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  496. Alden says:
    @Dube

    Interesting thing is most of you haven’t been to Dallas and taken the killing of Kennedy tour. I have. It’s one thing to read a I Know Who Killed Kennedy book and believe every word.

    It’s another thing to take the tour on a trip to Dallas and actually see the building the streets and even look thru the 4 windows of the Book Depositary where Oswald and 3 co workers stood.

    A Thousand and One Tales.

    • Replies: @utu
  497. Alden says:
    @Alden

    FYI, Clay Shaw had a nice thick head of hair even though he was N European heritage

    • Replies: @Sean
  498. @Ron Unz

    You’re apparently an HBD guy, or a believer in what the MSM would denounce as “scientific racism.” Indeed, the MSM would surely make the (entirely correct) point that many of your beliefs are also held by ignorant KKKers and violent neo-Nazis. But would you consider that a valid argument?

    No, of course not. And if your point is that many conspiracy theorists can have kooky views without it undermining the case for a particular conspiracy theory, then I agree. I just don’t see any evidence that any of the popular conspiracy theories out there on most prominent subjects are true.

    I also don’t think KKKers and Neo-Nazis care at all about science, just as most conspiracy theorists don’t care about the truth of their claims. There is a congruence in how both groups support a world view that neither can ultimately defend with any care.

    My guess is that you’re some sort of rightwing engineer-type or something like that. But perhaps I’m mistaken and you’re actually a toothless hillbilly in the KKK, dreaming of lynching blacks just like your great-grand-papa used to do…

    If either one was true, would it really matter?

  499. @Johnny Walker Read

    You may well be correct but presidents are largely media creations and Kennedy had Profiles of Courage and PT -109 working for him coupled with his wealth, youthful good looks and a lovely, classy, elegant wife. For most people perception is reality.

    The Kennedy clan was symbolic of the period when JFK was elected when Americans were enjoying the peace dividend and confidence in “The American Way” was never higher. People had decent jobs in a growing economy, they were buying houses, cars and appliances like colour TVs while simultaneously buying nice new clothes and going out to restaurants like never before… and then suddenly the music stopped.

    LBJ was dour, picked his dog up by the ears and Americans started seeing the war in Vietnam in their living rooms and the counter-culture emerged. The nation was traumatised by the killing so it’s little wonder that people were nostalgic for the heady days of JFK.

  500. utu says:
    @Alden

    Perhaps a tour of Auschwitz Museum could cure you from your Holocaust denial as you are so impressionable.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-secrets-of-military-intelligence/?showcomments#comment-3268877
    Alden says:

    June 14, 2019 at 4:29 am GMT • 100 Words

    Maybe there’s no indication of a death camp because there never was a death camp. I’m not interested in the holocaust controversy. But I don’t believe it happened for a simple reason.

    Every bit of information coming from Jewish propaganda outlets is an out right lie. Every bit. Therefore, the holocaust must be a lie.

    Simple.

    • Replies: @Alden
  501. @Ron Unz

    If you’d bother reading some of my American Pravda articles, you’d discover that many, many of the “conspiracy theories” I discuss were once very widely held and publicly advocated by many of America’s most highly-regarded (and fully mainstream) journalists, academics, government officials, and top military officers, and even widespread across the MSM.

    I think the only case in which that is clearly true is JFK’s assassination. Polling has generally been against the Warren Report’s interpretation from the beginning. The mainstream media has frequently allowed alternative views on the assassination to be aired and seriously considered. And Hollywood has made it a cliche that JFK’s assassination was done by just about anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald. (Most recently, Martin Scorsese’s film The Irishman, a so-called historical and biographical film, plays it straight that the mob got JFK.)

    We are now 56 years from Kennedy’s assassination and there’s still respectful treatment for anyone who wants to claim that a conspiracy was behind his murder.

    But other than JFK’s assassination, I don’t think any other major conspiracy theory has gotten anywhere near the same respectful treatment from such a broad spectrum of the American public, media, and elite circles. To cite one example, there were always some important people in the U.S. government and military who believed FDR knew in advance about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. But those views never gained traction with the public, never got much of respectful hearing in the mainstream media, and don’t do well in traditional historiography.

    Incidentally, you might also be interested in knowing that many dozens of reasonably prominent mainstream journalists and academics are on my personal distribution list, and every now and then I get a friendly note from some of them.

    I have no trouble believing this, but it doesn’t gainsay the point I just made. Why don’t you ask those distinguished academics and journalists to get together and do a public symposium on your conspiracy theories and see how well they play? I suspect you would get a lot of hemming and hawing about the busyness of their schedules.

    There’s a big difference between someone sending you a private missive in which he expresses respectful agreement with your writing and someone willing to go on the record that he thinks some specific conspiracy theory you are advancing needs to be the new conventional wisdom.

    Assuming you’re just some sort of rightwing engineer-type with a strong interest in HBD and a casual interest in history, many of the individuals I’m talking about are probably 10x or even 100x more knowledgeable and authoritative in the subjects I discuss than you are. So why should I care what you think?

    You shouldn’t care about my views except to the degree I can back them up. But that should also be true of everyone’s views you read, including the people with “10x and even 100x” my knowledge who are flattering you.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  502. @CanSpeccy

    LOL. Those are avowals of faith, not arguments in justification of faith.

    Do you not understand the difference?

    Of course.

    But I was responding to someone who, without argument, thought it was “very easy to see that Oswald didn’t shoot Kennedy.”

    So I commented to him, without argument, that I thought it was “pretty clear” that Oswald did shoot Kennedy and followed it up with some other statements about conspiracy theories that were also “pretty clear” to me.

    Not every comment deserves a full rebuttal. Besides, the point of his post to me was to give his ideas on conspiracy theories, not to engage in an argument about why Oswald is not to blame for Kennedy’s killing.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  503. @peterAUS

    So, looks like it, in your opinion, it was either of:
    1. The handler and his superiors were incompetent; they didn’t see it coming.
    2. They saw it coming but didn’t act on it.
    I guess 1 as a favorite.

    No, as I stated in my last post to you, I think Oswald acted alone. I don’t think he had “handlers” in the way you are implying. I don’t think anyone could’ve “handled” Oswald.

    Most professionals would’ve realized that early in any acquaintance with the man. I don’t think any of the sophisticated organizations that are often implicated in Kennedy’s death, from the U.S. military to the CIA to the Soviet Union to Mossad, would’ve trusted Oswald to play even a minor part in such a major plot. He was too much of a wild card, too unpredictable.

    Even one of Oswald’s Russian emigre buddies, George de Mohrenschildt, who was sometimes described as one of Oswald’ handlers, recognized that Oswald couldn’t possibly be part of any sophisticated government plot because he was too unbalanced. (Ironically, that was said before Mohrenschildt himself went crazy.)

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @geokat62
  504. Incitatus says:
    @utu

    “…Roosevelt and Bullitt were the major factors in the British making their guarantees to Poland and becoming involved in the war. Kennedy said that Bullitt…”

    Who ordered German troops into rump-Czechoslovakia, into Memel, into Poland? Was it FDR and Bullitt? Citations (don’t bother with Dr. Göbbels) please.

    “From Hoover’s book we see what was the meaning of the Umbrella Man. Joseph Kennedy was against the war, against giving Poland guarantees and thus against 1939…”

    Herbert Hoover and Joe Kennedy? The first failed Americans with pious irrelevancy principally protecting plutocrats like himself (Hoovervilles?). Kennedy? A mob boss that (understandably) wanted to put his family forward with patronage that magically made him an ambassador. A role that, as descendant Irish, put him opposition to the Court of St-James. What a surprise he was critical of Brits.

    Last, but least, is the heartwarming “That thing is honor” 5 May 1939 speech by Józef Beck.

    Consider Hitler’s epistle, after the usual long-winded prelude of historic wrongs and heroic struggle, to 50± senior officers at the Berghof 22 Aug 1939:

    “Essentially, everything depends on me, on my existence, because of my political talents. Also, the fact that probably no one will ever again have the confidence of the whole of the German people in the way that I have. In future, there will probably never again be a man who has more authority than I have. Thus, my existence is a factor of great value. But I can at any time be eliminated by a criminal or a lunatic…As a result of the constraints on us, our economic situation is such that we can only hold out for a few more years…we have no other choice, we must act…In two or three years’ time favorable circumstances [will] no longer [prevail]. And no-one knows how much longer I shall live. So, it’s better to have a conflict now…[I will] provide a propaganda pretext for starting the war, however implausible. The victor is never asked afterwards whether or not he told the truth. When starting and waging a war it’s not being in the right that matters, but victory…Close your hearts to pity. Act brutally. 80 million people must get what is their right. Their existence must be made secure. The stronger man is in the right. The greatest harshness…The military goal is the total destruction of Poland. Speed is of the essence. Pursuit to the point of complete annihilation.”

    -Adolf Hitler 22 Aug 1939 to Senior Military Staff at the Berghof on Fall Weiß, the invasion of Poland [Longerich ‘Hitler: A Biography’ p.635-636]

    The interesting thing is Hitler, in the same address, freely communicated his decision to attack Poland was decided after taking Memel (23 Mar 1938). So much for Danzig, the Corridor, minorities, and all the other crap.

    You guys really need to up your game.

    • Replies: @utu
  505. peterAUS says:
    @peterAUS

    So, here is the bottom line, for me:
    Oswald was the shooter.
    Analysis of the paper trail from/to the handler up/down will point to a conspiracy, or lack of it. Pure “lone gunman” thing, or not. That would be the first thing I’d do if asked to investigate the event.

    That’s for the assasination itself.
    It’s GIVEN that the coverup started happening as soon as Kennedy was shot. Probably started, by some people, as soon as they felt “oh shit”. Or “nice”. Whatever.
    From covering possible conspiracy to commit it, or, more likely, to cover own negligence/incompetence and the future career/power play.

    Now, a couple of things.
    How many people here were tasked, just once in their lives, to do VIP security? Including sniper threat in an urban environment? I was…or so I say.
    How many people here saw, with their own eyes, official documents being…how to put it….”adjusted”…so when used in court they would “prove” what just happened? Nothing major, mind you, wasn’t any loss of life. But I sat there and watched a couple of guys, quite senior to me at the time, doing the “adjusting”. And making sure that I was, with some other guys at the time/place on the same page.”THIS is what happened”. Or so I say………
    Again, no big conspiracy. Just pure ass-covering exercise. You know, position, pay, career prospects, stuff like that.

    I skim through stuff as in OP and comments just to see, one day maybe, something about that paper trail from the top of my comment here.
    I mean..hehe…amount of material presented in threads like this is amazing. With, understandably, THAT part missing.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  506. peterAUS says:
    @Pincher Martin

    …. I don’t think he had “handlers” in the way you are implying. …

    O.K.
    Moving on.

  507. geokat62 says:
    @Pincher Martin

    No, as I stated in my last post to you, I think Oswald acted alone. I don’t think he had “handlers” in the way you are implying. I don’t think anyone could’ve “handled” Oswald.

    So, if LHO acted alone, as you say, then why did Jacob Rubenstein kill him?

    While your at it, perhaps you might offer up a rational explanation of the following quote by Ruby’s Rabbi, Hillel Silverman:

    “I was shocked,” said Silverman. “I visited him the next day in jail, and I said, ‘Why, Jack, why?’ He said, ‘I did it for the American people.’”

    I interrupted Silverman, pointing out that other reports had Ruby saying he did it “to show that Jews had guts.” The rabbi sighed.

    “Yes, he mentioned that,” Silverman said. “But I don’t like to mention it. I think he said, ‘I did it for the Jewish people.’ But I’ve tried to wipe that statement from my mind.”

    https://forward.com/news/187793/lee-harvey-oswalds-killer-jack-ruby-came-from-stro/

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  508. Sean says:
    @Alden

    To me Clay Shaw does not look very North European, true of many Americans I think. While there is no denying that despite the tendency, there are many North Europeans with nice heads of hair, but your average Pakistani man has much better hair than most Europeans especially North Europeans. Fantastic hair like Junior makes one look non European I think; he really was very extreme.

    Baldness and quite a lot of other traits probably including IQ and maybe homosexuality are on the X chromosome. When a father has a daughter his X is handed down without being shuffled (your sister may seem to be weirdly on the same wavelength as your father when they are talking), If you are a man ; look to your mothers father for a strong influence on your brains, personality, and baldness or the lack of it

    • Troll: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  509. The umbrella was moved up and down when the car passed in front and then the car came to a stop.

    It was a signal for the driver to stop the car. And then the fatal shot.

  510. @peterAUS

    Oswald was the shooter.

    There is no evidence of that.

  511. utu says:
    @Incitatus

    Wow. You are so simpleminded. An automaton? At which assembly line did they put you together?

    Have you read Master and Margherita by Bulgakov?

    Annushka has already bought the sunflower oil, and has not only bought it, but has already spilled it.

    Hitler just had to step on it.

    What a fool you are!

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  512. @Pincher Martin

    Who cares about what you think?

    I think it’s pretty clear Oswald shot Kennedy.

    Yeah, sure, even with a bullet coming the other way, and Oswald’s mind was so strong that he could stop the car by his mind alone so as to adjust the shooting.

    I think it’s pretty clear that Sirhan Sirhan shot Robert Kennedy.

    Yeah, sure, with a bullet which came from the back when Sirhan was in front.

    I think it’s pretty clear that the 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by Arab terrorists and not an inside job

    Yeah, sure, even they placed bombs inside the WTC7. Your thoughts are so clearly brainwashed that they are full of emptiness.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  513. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Pincher Martin

    So I commented to him, without argument, that I thought it was “pretty clear” that Oswald did shoot Kennedy

    So what do you make of the testimony of the Parklands Hospital sugeons, Dr. McClelland, and Dr. Charles Crenshaw, which you can see here, which refutes the claim that Kennedy was killed by a bullet from behind?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    , @Iris
  514. @geokat62

    So, if LHO acted alone, as you say, then why did Jacob Rubenstein kill him?

    You might as well ask why any crazy person kills anyone. Why did Oswald kill Kennedy? Why did Sirhan Sirhan kill RFK? Why did Arthur Bremer shoot George Wallace? Why did Hinckley shoot Reagan? Why did two separate women try to kill Gerald Ford within one month?

    What you’re asking is for a sane person (i.e., me) to describe a crazy person’s motives in rational terms that will make to everyone else who is sane.

    And, of course, I can’t do it. The shooters usually have stated motives, but nothing that make any sense to a rational person.

    • Troll: NoseytheDuke
    • Replies: @geokat62
  515. @Olivier1973

    Who cares about what you think?

    Clearly you do. Or you wouldn’t be here sniffing my behind with such alacrity.

    Yeah, sure, even with a bullet coming the other way, and Oswald’s mind was so strong that he could stop the car by his mind alone so as to adjust the shooting.

    Jeepers! You’ve exposed the conspiracy, and the failings of your grammar teacher, in just one syntactically-jumbled sentence.

    Yeah, sure, with a bullet which came from the back when Sirhan was in front.

    Two sentences and two exposed conspiracies! You’re on a roll. Maybe you can now use your one-sentence powers to expose FDR’s malignant desire to expose the US naval forces at Pearl Harbor to an attack by Japan.

    Yeah, sure, even they placed bombs inside the WTC7.

    Oh well, maybe you can get FDR with your next post.

    • Troll: Iris
    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  516. @CanSpeccy

    So what do you make of the testimony of the Parklands Hospital sugeons, Dr. McClelland, and Dr. Charles Crenshaw, which you can see here, which refutes the claim that Kennedy was killed by a bullet from behind?

    Much ado about nothing. McClelland and Crenshaw made huge mistakes, as they both later admitted. McClelland had never done an autopsy before and he missed a lot.

    Really, if these are the kind of things which still bother you, you have not advanced very far in the Kennedy conspiracy lore. Read Bugliosi’s interview with McClelland to clear up any misconceptions you might still have about how authoritative McClelland and Crenshaw are.

  517. Iris says:
    @CanSpeccy

    President Kennedy’s EXIT wound described by eyewitnesses:

  518. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Much ado about nothing. McClelland and Crenshaw made huge mistakes, as they both later admitted.

    Come on you lazy bum. If your going to dismiss the evidence, provide the evidence by which you dismiss it. All you doing here is asserting as a matter of faith the official theory … the word of a shill.

    Pathetic.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Pincher Martin
  519. geokat62 says:
    @Pincher Martin

    You might as well ask why any crazy person kills anyone.

    Oh, so Jacob Rubenstein was a crazy person.

    The shooters usually have stated motives, but nothing that make any sense to a rational person.

    Speaking of motives, Ruby’s rabbi saying Rubenstein killed LHO “for the Jewish people” makes considerable sense to most rational people, especially when viewed against the following backdrop:

    1) JFK pushing hard to get DBG to give up Israel’s nuclear program; and

    2) RFK pushing hard to get the AZC to register under FARA that would effectively put an end to the Zionist movement.

    Question is, why doesn’t this makes sense to you?

    Please explain.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  520. @peterAUS

    Must reading for folks who don’t “get” Oswald’s CIA connection. The book is long, boring, very detailed, and heavy on footnotes and documentation:

    https://www.amazon.com/Oswald-CIA-John-Newman/dp/0786701315

    • Replies: @S
  521. Alden says:
    @utu

    “Every bit of information coming from Jewish propaganda outlets is an outright lie. Every bit.
    Therefore, the holocaust must be a lie.
    Simple”

    I wrote that and it’s true.

    The holocaust may have happened. But Jewish sources always lie. I do skim through the local Jewish community newspaper regularly *. The current lie seems to be that the Germans had nothing to do with Auschwitz. It was a Polish Catholic operation start to finish.

    That directly contradicts all those endless books by Eli Weisel and the numerous survivors who wrote hundreds of books 195o to 1980 that the Germans were responsible for the holocaust that never happened. All my information about the alleged holocaust comes from Jewish sources.

    I’ve read many of the books and articles. From the Germans to the Pope to French Dutch Belgian etc civilians and now the Jews claim the Polish civilians killed 6,60,600 gazillions at Auschwitz.

    Again, all my information about the holocaust comes from Jewish sources. Since the tall tales change every few years, I know they are lies.

    * I have to keep up with what the enemy is doing. That’s why I read the Jewish press.

    • Replies: @Achilles Wannabe
  522. Dube says:

    OSWALD BUYS A COKE 

    What a rush! He was so exhilarated that it seemed his feet didn’t even touch
    the flights of stairs from the sixth floor to the vending machine on the ground floor,
    where he paused, drew the correct change from his pants pocket, and carefully
    inserted the coinage into the slot, then stepped back with a breath of relief
    while listening to the familiar click-rumble-ker-LUNK!

    “The pause that refreshes.” 

    • LOL: Iris
  523. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Baldness is most prevalent among Mediterranean and Mideastern Caucasoids, including Pakistanis. It’s less common among North Europeans. Least common among Mongoloids.

    [MORE]

  524. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    We have Oswald’s confession: “I’m just a patsy.”

    It should count for something. He would not go down w/o kicking and screaming so he had to be killed.

  525. CanSpeccy says:
    @utu

    Here]s Dr. Crenshaw, who Pinch says was rubbished by the late Vincent Bugliosi, confidently asserting as recently as last year, that official autopsy report did not correspond with what he and other surgeons had seen at Parklands Hospital. He also reports on his the intimidating call he received at the hospital from LBJ, demanding a deathbed confession from Oswald.

    or here if that link doesn’t work (cf from 13 minutes in).

  526. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    We have Oswald’s confession: “I’m just a patsy.”

    Yes, that’s why LBJ needed a deathbed confession. The doctors, it seems, were sufficiently intimidated to keep their mouths shut about what they knew until quite recently, but they had the courage not to make stuff up despite intimidation from the White House.

    Has to be admitted, that Pinch is a pretty good troll. See how he never offers an argument or any direct evidence. He just reiterates the official story while flatly rejecting contradictory evidence, but without evidence or rationale. Good technique. Grind the bastards down.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Olivier1973
  527. @CanSpeccy

    Come on you lazy bum. If your going to dismiss the evidence, provide the evidence by which you dismiss it. All you doing here is asserting as a matter of faith the official theory … the word of a shill.

    I’ve already provided you with a source. What do you want me to do? Read the book for you?

    Well, okay, Sulky, here’s a long excerpt for you:

    [MORE]

    How do conspiracy theorists challenge this incontrovertible evidence? By trotting out the observations of the Parkland Hospital doctors, a group of mostly young interns and residents who were not pathologists and who had only twenty-two frenzied minutes in Kennedy’s presence, and then only to try to resuscitate him. Their observations, as unfocused and unconcentrated as they must have been regarding anything not directly related to saving the president’s life, supersede, in the conspiracy theorists’ minds, autopsy photographs and X-rays, and the positive conclusions of seventeen forensic pathologists, along with other experts (radiologists and anthropologists), who, with almost unlimited time, could coolly and dispassionately evaluate all the medical and scientific evidence. Don’t misunderstand me, here. I’m not saying that we should disregard out of hand everything that was not the primary focus of these physicians who were trying to save the president’s life, particularly in the absence of an explanation for their supposedly erroneous observations. This brings us to the central question in this matter. Starting with the head wound, what did the Parkland doctors “see”?

    Most saw the large defect as being not to the right front but the right rear of the president’s head, lending support to the conspiracy theorists’ position that the fatal shot to the head was fired from the front.* For instance, Dr. Malcolm Perry, along with Dr. Charles Carrico, one of the two primary doctors administering emergency care to the president, said the large defect was to “the right posterior parietal area.”138 Dr. Carrico thought it to be in the “right occipital parietal area.”139 Dr. William Kemp Clark and Gene Akin also said the large wound was in the “right occipital parietal region.”140 Dr. William Zedelitz, a second-year general-surgery resident at Parkland whose presence in the president’s recovery room was mentioned in the Warren Commission volumes,141 but who never testified before the Commission, was tracked down by assassination researcher Vincent Palamara, and in a November 4, 1998, letter to Palamara also said that the president “had a massive head injury to the right occipital parietal area of the cranium.” Dr. Ronald C. Jones testified he saw a “large defect in the back side of the head.”142 But Mark Redhead, the London Weekend Television producer of the 1988 Oswald docu-trial, wrote that in a June 13, 1986, telephone conversation with Jones, “He cooled off a little on his testimony about the head wound. He said that, though his initial impression was that the bullet had hit JFK in the throat and exited from the back of the head, he had not gone around to the head and examined the wound.”143

    Dr. Robert McClelland, who would later become the main Parkland doctor the conspiracy theorists would cite for the proposition that the large exit wound was not just to the occipital parietal area but completely to the rear of the president’s head, originally told the Warren Commission that the “right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted…The parietal bone was protruded up through the scalp and seemed to be fractured almost along its right posterior half,” with “some of the occipital bone being fractured in its lateral half.”144 Two months before McClelland’s Warren Commission testimony on March 21, 1964, the Texas State Journal of Medicine contacted the Parkland doctors who had actually treated the president (which the journal concluded numbered only seven) and asked them to record their separate impressions for the journal’s readers. McClelland wrote that “the cause of death was the massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the right side of the head.”145 McClelland’s view would soon change radically.

    McClelland eventually drew a sketch for conspiracy theorists, which appears in their books,146 showing the massive gaping wound to the president as being solely in the occipital (rear bone) area of the president’s head. To fortify his position about seeing a large hole in back of Kennedy’s head, he has also said he saw a piece of cerebellum (a portion of the brain located to the rear of the cerebrum, the front part of the brain) fall out of the back of the president’s head onto his stretcher.147 But although the autopsy report notes that “the major portion” of the right cerebrum was “exuding” from the large defect on the right side of the president’s head, there isn’t one word in the report indicating that any part of the cerebellum was missing or even lacerated. And Dr. Michael Baden of the HSCA told me that “X-rays and autopsy photos show that although there was damage to the cerebrum, the cerebellum was intact. Any doctors at Parkland, none of whom were pathologists, who said they saw damage to the cerebellum were wrong. They saw some brain tissue on Kennedy’s hair and they incorrectly assumed it was cerebellum tissue.”149 Indeed, with the entry wound to the president’s head being as high up as it was, it would have been virtually impossible for the cerebellum, in the lower part of the brain, to have been damaged, at least by the bullet.150

    The relevance of this issue, of course, is that since the cerebellum is located near the back of the head, finding pieces of cerebellum on the stretcher would be consistent with there being a large exit wound to the rear or right rear of the president’s head, where conspiracy theorists claim the head exit wound was. Cerebellum certainly wouldn’t likely have been expelled from any defect in the right front of the president’s head, where the Warren Commission and the autopsy surgeons concluded the exit wound was. Yet several Parkland doctors claim they saw damaged and exposed cerebellum tissue (e.g., Dr. Charles Carrico,151 Dr. William Kemp Clark,152 Dr. Charles Baxter,153 Dr. Malcolm Perry,154 and Dr. Marion Jenkins).155 In his hospital report dated November 22, 1963, Dr. Jenkins wrote that “the cerebellum had protruded from the [head] wound,”156 and later testified to the Warren Commission in 1964 that the “cerebellum…was herniated from the wound.”157 However, Jenkins changed his mind after seeing autopsy photographs in 1988, telling author Gerald Posner that “the photos showed the President’s brain was crenelated from the trauma, and it resembled cerebellum, but it was not cerebellar tissue. I think it has thrown off a lot of people that saw it.”158 And after interviewing Jenkins in 1992, Dennis Breo reported in JAMA that when Jenkins wrote in his 1963 report that the “cerebellum had been blown out, he meant cerebrum.”159

    When I spoke to Dr. Carrico, one of the doctors who testified he had seen damaged cerebellar tissue, I asked him if there was any possibility that the Parkland doctors were confused about the cerebellum being damaged.

    “Oh, absolutely,” he immediately replied.

    “Why?” I asked.

    “Looking at the shredded pieces of brain on the gurney, it looked like some of it had the characteristics of cerebellum, which kind of has a wavy surface. But because these brain pieces were shredded, this could easily have led to confusion as to whether it was all cerebrum—which has broader bands across the surface—or some cerebellum.”160

    And in a telephone conversation in 1994, Dr. Boswell, in response to Parkland doctor Kemp Clark’s claiming to have seen “exposed…cerebellar tissue,” told Dr. Gary Aguilar, “He was wrong. The right side of the cerebrum was so fragmented. I think what he saw and misinterpreted as cerebellum was that.”161 Parkland doctor Robert Grossman, who said he was present in Trauma Room One during the effort to resuscitate the president,162 would later write that “the autopsy demonstrated that the cerebellum was intact and that the physicians, including myself, who had thought that they had observed cerebellar tissue must have mistaken macerated brain for cerebellar folia.”163 It bears repeating that the autopsy report only mentioned damage to the cerebrum, not the cerebellum.

    When I spoke over the telephone to Dr. McClelland in late September and early October of 2002, McClelland, a respected Dallas surgeon whom no one accuses of trying to deliberately mislead anyone, only of being completely wrong in what he thought he saw (the most honest people in the world can think they saw the darndest things), said he was positive the president had a “massive hole to the back of his head.” He said at the time of his observation he was holding a metal retractor that was pulling the skin away from the president’s trachea so Drs. Perry and Carrico could perform their tracheotomy. “I had nothing else to do or to distract me so I fixated on this large, gaping hole to the back of the president’s head for ten to twelve minutes.” When I wondered how he could see the large hole when the president was always lying on his back, he said the wound was so large that he nevertheless could see “most of it.” If what he said was true, I asked, how is it possible that on the Zapruder film itself, the explosion is clearly to the right frontal portion of the president’s head with a large amount of brain matter spraying out, and the back of his head appears to be completely intact? Dr. McClelland gave an answer that deserves some type of an award for inventiveness: “What the explanation for this is, I just don’t know, but what I believe happened is that the spray of brain matter and blood was kind of like a bloodscreen, similar to a smokescreen, that precluded a clear view of the occipital area.”

    If, I pursued the matter, the exit wound was to the back of the president’s head, where was the entrance wound for this bullet? McClelland, who believes the shot to the head came from the grassy knoll, said he believed the president was struck “around the hairline near the middle of his forehead.” If that was so, I asked, how was it that seventeen pathologists, including Dr. Wecht, all agreed that the president was only struck twice, both times from the rear, and none of them—from photographs, X-rays, and personal observation (by the three autopsy surgeons)—saw any entrance wound to the president’s forehead? Again, McClelland, who acknowledged, “I’m not a pathologist and I’ve never conducted an autopsy,” said, “I don’t know the answer to your question.” But he remained sincerely inventive in his imagination. “What I believe happened is that none of the pathologists saw the entrance wound because it became a part of the destruction to the whole right side and top of the president’s head. In other words, it was no longer a separate hole that could be identified.” (Of course, none of the autopsy photographs show any such massive injury to the president’s forehead extending to the right side of his head, and none is referred to in the autopsy report, nor in the reports of the Clark Panel and Rockefeller Commission. As the HSCA said, “There is no evidence that the president was struck by a bullet entering the front of his head.”)164

    “So you do acknowledge,” I said, “the explosion to the right front part of the president’s head?”

    “Oh, yes,” the doctor said, “but that’s not where the bullet exited. It exited in the occipital region of his head, leaving a hole so big I could put my fist in it.”

    When I pointed out to the doctor again that not only didn’t the Zapruder film show any large hole to the back of the president’s head but autopsy photographs never showed any large hole there either, he said that although it was pure “supposition” on his part, at the time the photographs were taken, someone “could have pulled a flap of the president’s skin, attached to the base of his neck, forward,” thereby covering the large defect. When I asked him if he saw any such loose flap of skin at Parkland, he acknowledged, “I did not.”

    It was getting late in the evening, Dallas time, but before I ended the interview I reminded Dr. McClelland of the fact that in his Parkland Hospital admission note at 4:45 p.m. on the day of the assassination, he had written that the president died “from a gunshot wound of the left temple.”165 “Yes,” he said, “that was a mistake. I never saw any wound to the president’s left temple. Dr. Jenkins had told me there was a wound there, though he later denied telling me this.”* Since there was no bullet wound to the left side of the president’s body, and since the conspiracy theorists allege that Kennedy was shot from the grassy knoll to his right front, conspiracy author Robert Groden solves the problem and avoids having his star witness, Dr. McClelland, look very confused and noncredible simply by changing McClelland’s words “left temple” to “right temple” in his book, The Killing of a President.166

    When I called Dr. McClelland the following evening to discuss further one of th