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Dresden, Germany, February, 1945
Dresden, Germany, February, 1945

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It was Shrove Tuesday, 1945 in the magnificent German art city of Dresden, which was packed with helpless Christian refugees fleeing the Red Army of the Stalinist USSR. Dresden’s native Lutheran and Catholic children, dressed in their festive Saxon folk costumes, were aboard a train taking them home after Mardi Gras parties at different points in the far-flung city. Still merry from the night’s festivities, they cavorted on the train prior to Ash Wednesday, February 14, and the solemnities that would be observed even in wartime, in memory of the passion and death of Jesus. In the sky Allied fighter planes caught sight of the civilian train and opened fire on the children inside, whose blood was soon pouring out of the wreckage.

This carnage registers almost not at all in the American mind. The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people, like the atomic holocaust in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, usually merits not much more than a few sentences or a single paragraph in the back pages of metropolitan newspapers, unlike “Yom HaShoah (יום השואה) Holocaust Remembrance Day,” in April, which is observed with countless civic, educational and media events, hosannahs, apologies and genuflections, from the Vatican to the White House. The barely remembered German and Japanese victims of Allied war crimes were of the wrong race and religion.

In the spring of 1945, after prosecuting the bombing holocaust against every major German city, and with the end of the Second World War in sight in Europe, Winston Churchill began to consider his reputation in the post-war period, when the 500,000 German innocents he ordered incinerated could come back to haunt him and stain his prestige. On March 28, 1945 he issued a deceitful, back-stabbing memo blaming the mass incineration on his own Bomber Command and by insinuation, upon its commander Arthur Harris, whose force would be denied a post-war campaign medal, and Harris a peerage. Harris and Bomber Command had been only following Winston Churchill’s explicit orders, yet Churchill attempted to shift responsibility onto the corps of airmen who had suffered among the highest casualties of any branch of the British military.

Churchill, like many others, endeavored to blame Germany for being the first to saturate civilians with terror-bombs —at Guernica in Spain on behalf of Franco’s forces, and in Rotterdam, during the war with Holland. In both cases Churchill stated that thousands had been killed. Even one death is regrettable of course, but less than 100 people were killed in Guernica according to historian David Irving, and less than a thousand in Rotterdam, when the Luftwafe accidentally struck a margarine factory and the flammable liquid burned houses nearby. Churchill had said “thousands” died in Guernica, and that 30,000 perished in Rotterdam, which is more than what Deborah Lipstadt says died in the two-day inferno in Dresden (the absurdly low figure of 25,000 is now the officially fixed count to which the “news media” comform without deviation).

The Germans had pledged not to be the first to bomb civilian centers in Britain. Churchill had hoped they would carpet bomb London to give him the excuse to silence the large peace movement in England which was dogging him in 1940, at a time when the Germans had not dropped a single bomb on London, almost a year after Britain had declared war on Germany. The British Prime Minister obtained his pretext toward the end of August, 1940, when a lone, wayward German bomber “lost its way flying up the Thames” river. It had orders to attack an oil refinery, but instead dropped its bombs on London’s East End. No one was killed thankfully, but Churchill was elated. He had the excuse he needed to massively retaliate against Berlin, knowing Hitler would respond in kind, and that the British peace movement would vanish in the smoke and flames of the “Battle of Britain” and the “Blitz.” Churchill ordered a hundred bombers to attack Berlin. Royal Air Force (RAF) commanders warned him that the Luftwaffe would do the same to London.

At this juncture we pause to contemplate the bloody treason that was at the heart of Churchill’s soul: he wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible, so he could point to their deaths as the justification for a total war against Germany, and he succeeded in his objective.

Some of the victims of the Allied holocaust in Dresden

Some of the victims of the Allied holocaust in Dresden

To this day the war crime the leaders of Britain and the United States perpetrated in Dresden is justified on the basis of the tired fable that “Germany did it first to Rotterdam and Guernica,” and “Look at the terror the Germans visited upon London.” Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.

On September 4, 1940 Hitler gave a speech in which he stated that if the “mad drunkard” Churchill continued to attack Berlin, the Germans were not going to stand by and take it. It was Neanderthal thinking on the führer’s part: you club me over the head and I will club you. Hitler was almost always outfoxed by the clever machinations of the masonic treachery at the heart of Britain’s ruling class. No matter what Churchill ordered, Hitler should have limited his air campaign to British military sites and munitions factories (the Luftwaffe never bothered to attack the factories that built Britain’s Lancaster bombers).

On September 6 the English people heard the ominous drone of a fleet of Luftwaffe bombers flying up the Thames. Some 3,000 Londoners subsequently died. Now Churchill had what he wanted. You won’t find these facts in the multi-volume history he wrote, or in the pages of the work of the conformist historians. To learn the truth one must read and study the revisionists, particularly the demonized David Irving, the preeminent military historian of World War II in the Atlantic theatre.

ORDER IT NOW

Irving’s nemesis, Deborah Lipstadt meanwhile, has taken it upon herself to deny the holocaust casualty figure of 100,000 for Dresden, but God help any one of us who would have the temerity to doubt the Six Million casualty figure of Holocaustianity, or even to apply the word “holocaust” to what happened in Dresden.

I challenge any reader to collect the legacy media’s descriptions of the bombing of Dresden from the 1990s onward and count how many term it a holocaust. The extent to which we are imprisoned in an Orwellian dystopia of our own making is revealed when we consider the fact that it is regarded as highly insensitive or indeed “anti-Semitic” to violate the self-appointed Newspeak holocaust trademark appropriated by the Holy People, and apply it to the German cities that were incinerated, or to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, even though those war crimes were genuine holocausts by dictionary definition: “Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire. Origin: Greek holokauston, from holos ‘whole’ and kaustos ‘burned.”

Even in the liturgy of Holocaustianity it is not decreed that most Judaic victims of the Nazis perished by fire. A half-million German civilians and three-quarters of a million Japanese civilians (including the victims of the fire-bombing of Toyko), were indeed burned to death, yet it is a thought crime to say so. Tell me we are not all cowards for allowing truth itself to be forbidden. We live in Talmudic times.

This writer is sometimes accused, as a researcher in the field of the Babylonian Talmud, of seeing the Talmud where it is not. It is not so much the Talmudic texts themselves that we observe in our society, but the results of their influence. The single most remarkable dimension of Talmudic halacha is its narcissistic exceptionalism, born of the self-worship it inculcates. Prof. Lipstadt, who has made an career out of stigmatizing anyone who doubts any aspect of the “Holocaust” narrative, as a diabolic “Holocaust denier,” is free to deny, without negative consequences, the holocaust in Dresden, because of her exceptional status as one of the Holy People. She may do as she likes with history, in ways that the rest of us may not. For that reason alone we cannot respect the religion of Holocaustianity. It is not history. It is a product of Talmudic megalomania. Few of us tolerate fanatical egoism from Catholics, Protestants or Muslims. The very idea raises our secular indignation and “Separation of Church (or Mosque) and State!” is our cry, in the face of it. But to shout “Separation of Synagogue and State!” in nations where Holocaustianity is the last truly believed state religion in the otherwise agnostic West, would be unthinkable for anyone who valued their reputation, employment, personal safety, or in Europe, freedom from incarceration.

Beyond the “Jew and gentile” entanglement is the fratricide: Churchill and his top military circle were not Judaic, yet they set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

A thousand years of national and religious wars in Europe had not managed to wreak the destruction which Mr. Churchill and U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt directed against the cultural treasure houses of western civilization, in cities like Dresden. They tossed a match into Dresden as casually as a drooling meth addict would torch an apartment building for revenge on the landlord who had evicted him.

Yet “conservative Christian” American university professors and administrators in institutions of higher learning such as Michigan’s esteemed Hillsdale College, which is the recipient of millions of dollars in donations from “Conservatives” seeking to preserve western civilization, have hallowed Churchill into a paragon of decency, courage and western leadership. This view of this mass murdering vandal is such a defect of vision as to be fatal spiritually, culturally and politically on a national scale.

If the powers that be decided, for example, that Russia needed to be fire-bombed, given sufficient pretext our “Conservatives” would do it all over again in the name of “civilization.” The blood of the innocent in Moscow and St. Petersburg would signify no more to the Hillsdale College type of crusaders than the charred bodies of the civilians in the apocalyptic wreckage of Dresden.

American civilization in 2018 is not worthy of the name. We have the illusion of a civilization, which we cherish for our own aggrandizement and nostalgia. “Conservative” America has made common cause with the Talmudic mentality, as did Antonin Scalia, another of its plaster saints.

At the start of Lent 2018, seventy-three years after the Allies’ mass murder in Dresden, we inhabit the money changer’s house, where Christ on the Cross is sold not just for a buck, but for a bucket of Talmudic vindication.

Michael Hoffman is a professional historian, the editor of the periodical Revisionist History and the author of nine books.

 
• Category: History • Tags: Dresden, Germany, World War II 
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  1. fnn says:

    “Guernica”

    A reasonable-sounding revisionist account of the Guernica bombing by a respected scholar:

    https://carolynyeager.net/guernica-politics-propaganda

    From an article based on interviews of participants and surviving documents of the Luftwaffe—specifically an unpublished history of the Legion Condor from the year1 940—by Alfred de Zayas 1, published in the Journal of the Bundeswehr in 1974, we learn the following:

    Guernica was on the front line and not an open city. It was heavily defended by six battalions of Basques and Santanders. An armament factory was inside the city and other Red Army facilities were in the immediate vicinity.

    An air attack at the bridge and road crossing east of Guernica was ordered. All Condor orders were strict that cities must be spared, and especially churches. (Knowing this, the “Rojas” (Reds) stored ammunition in churches, blowing them up when they couldn’t get it out). Only in special cases were military targets in cities permitted to be attacked.

    Nine aircraft dropped a total of 7950 kg of bombs, but no hits at the bridge were observed because visibility was very poor. The reason for the poor visibility was fire and smoke from the blasting and setting on fire by the Reds, and possibly the international brigades, ahead of the air attack. The relatively primitive targeting devices used at that time were also responsible for non-military objects being hit.

    Endnotes:
    “Guernica im Lichte neuerer Untersuchungen” (Guernica in Light of Latest Research), by Alfred Maurice de Zayas, Wehrforschung (WF), June 1974. De Zayas is a distinguished author, researcher and expert on international human rights.

    Read More
    • Replies: @fnn
    Looking around the net, I found this from Stanley G. Payne's book, The Spanish Civil War :
    https://www.scribd.com/document/344925704/Stanley-G-Payne-The-Spanish-Civil-War

    The most notorious, widely publicized military event of the war –the bombing of Guernica, a small Vizcayan town of 5,000 and the site of traditional Basque political ceremonies – occurred late in April 1937 during the first phase of the northern campaign. The ensuing blaze burned most od the city to the ground, and about 150 people were killed.

    TheNationalists had categorized Guernica as a military target because it was scarcely more than ten kilometers from the front, housed three battalions of Basque troops and a munitions factory (producing, inter alia, incen-diary bombs somewhat similar to the kind that destroyed the city), and lay beside a bridge across which part of the Basque forces would have toretreat. Preparation of seven bomb shelters indicated that local authorities also judged that Guernica would likely be a target. One of these shelters was hit directly, considerably increasing the death toll.
     

    Contrary to assertions, the Guernica operation was not unique in theactions of either side. The Republican navy and air force had subjected cities to indiscrimate bombardment from the first day of the war, and in September 1936, Azana’s newspaper Politica had boasted of the damage done to targets "inundated with iron and fire."
     
    , @Alden
    Guernica was a commie stronghold. Too bad their ideas survived and came to fruition in America
    , @Alden
    The British had spy/observers in Guernica. They reported that the communists in Guernica set off the explosions. But the Jee media has claimed for 80 years that it was the eeeevil Germans and their reactionary Catholic allies who did the damage.

    His propaganda painting is a big treason Picasso was so highly regarded mid 20th century, he was a communist and the intellectuals adored him because of that.
    , @Jake
    Even the so-called conservatives now manage not to know that the Spanish Republicans/Reds slaughtered a large number of priests and monks, raped many nuns, blew up multiple churches, all that on top of - perhaps a type of dessert for - the meat and potatoes work of bludgeoning backward civilians who refused to bow to the progress of atheist revolution.

    By the way - when the British Empire managed to strike trade deals with the Spanish Empire, it planted Masonic lodges not merely in New Spain but in Spain as well. As in Mexico, the British founded Masonic lodges were indispensable to all subsequent revolts in the country.
    , @Wally
    BTW:
    The famous Picasso painting, Guernica, was actually started BEFORE the event.

    www.codoh.com

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  2. fnn says:
    @fnn
    "Guernica"

    A reasonable-sounding revisionist account of the Guernica bombing by a respected scholar:
    https://carolynyeager.net/guernica-politics-propaganda

    From an article based on interviews of participants and surviving documents of the Luftwaffe—specifically an unpublished history of the Legion Condor from the year1 940—by Alfred de Zayas 1, published in the Journal of the Bundeswehr in 1974, we learn the following:

    Guernica was on the front line and not an open city. It was heavily defended by six battalions of Basques and Santanders. An armament factory was inside the city and other Red Army facilities were in the immediate vicinity.

    An air attack at the bridge and road crossing east of Guernica was ordered. All Condor orders were strict that cities must be spared, and especially churches. (Knowing this, the “Rojas” (Reds) stored ammunition in churches, blowing them up when they couldn’t get it out). Only in special cases were military targets in cities permitted to be attacked.

    Nine aircraft dropped a total of 7950 kg of bombs, but no hits at the bridge were observed because visibility was very poor. The reason for the poor visibility was fire and smoke from the blasting and setting on fire by the Reds, and possibly the international brigades, ahead of the air attack. The relatively primitive targeting devices used at that time were also responsible for non-military objects being hit.
     

    Endnotes:
    “Guernica im Lichte neuerer Untersuchungen” (Guernica in Light of Latest Research), by Alfred Maurice de Zayas, Wehrforschung (WF), June 1974. De Zayas is a distinguished author, researcher and expert on international human rights.
     

    Looking around the net, I found this from Stanley G. Payne’s book, The Spanish Civil War :

    The most notorious, widely publicized military event of the war –the bombing of Guernica, a small Vizcayan town of 5,000 and the site of traditional Basque political ceremonies – occurred late in April 1937 during the first phase of the northern campaign. The ensuing blaze burned most od the city to the ground, and about 150 people were killed.

    TheNationalists had categorized Guernica as a military target because it was scarcely more than ten kilometers from the front, housed three battalions of Basque troops and a munitions factory (producing, inter alia, incen-diary bombs somewhat similar to the kind that destroyed the city), and lay beside a bridge across which part of the Basque forces would have toretreat. Preparation of seven bomb shelters indicated that local authorities also judged that Guernica would likely be a target. One of these shelters was hit directly, considerably increasing the death toll.

    Contrary to assertions, the Guernica operation was not unique in theactions of either side. The Republican navy and air force had subjected cities to indiscrimate bombardment from the first day of the war, and in September 1936, Azana’s newspaper Politica had boasted of the damage done to targets “inundated with iron and fire.”

    Read More
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  3. I left this comment at Hoffman’s site, but of course he’s too cowardly to have published:

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Hoffman Is Clueless One, Regarding Dear Unc’ Adolf, satanism, Central-Banking, Etc.
    (Apollonian, 13 Feb 18)

    Hoffman tells us in his article, here, “Hitler was almost always outfoxed….” But the real question is WHAT does our Pelagian heretic, Hoffman, pretending to being Christian, Christianity being worship of TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6), know about “foxiness”?–or anything?

    For Hoffman certainly knows nothing about economics, or capitalism, or money and banking–which subjects he babbles about, as in his travesty of a book, “Usury in Christendom…,” which “usury” Hoffman gives no definition or exposition for exact original meaning, failing to note “usury” actually has no definitive or specific understanding fm the ancient sources.

    For Germany was essentially attacked by the Jew-led central-banking power (see Mises.org for expo), Britain having made an offensive alliance w. Poland, Poland having threatened war w. Germany over German re-uniting w. German city of Danzig. It was Britain and France who first declared war upon Germany, never forget, beginning the second world war.

    For Germany had lost WWI, never forget, only 21 yrs earlier, Germany then dis-armed for heavy weapons, the armed forces reduced to 100,000, the nation looted by the Allied criminals, the people literally starved by the Brit. blockade into signing the Versailles Treaty and enslavement. For the Western plutocratic satanists led by Jews and “bankers” had to continue to protect, cultivate, and subsidize their latest Bolshevik monster they’d created in Russia, having mass-murdered millions of Christians, Soviet Russia the proto-type and enforcer for world gov. dictatorship they were busily constructing.

    ————————[END OF PART ONE; SEE BELOW FOR PART 2]———————

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous

    Christianity being worship of TRUTH
     
    Wrong!! Christianity is the worship of DECEIT!

    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/db0_onegod.htm
    , @spencer
    I read apollonian's extensive multi-post comment, and honestly have to say I cannot understand a word of it. What's the point? Sounds like he's just mad that Hoffman didn't praise Hitler, but stuck to the subject of his piece and simply presented the facts on Dresden as he sees them.

    Hoffman is a bit of an erudite and scholarly writer. But I've been reading his stuff for 20 years now, and find it to be some of the most educational and eye-opening material I've ever read. Cannot fathom applonian's repeated charges of Hoffman being a "Pelagian heretic." I guess labeling other people with exotic labels, without providing any examples or proofs that the label befits the person, is the new form of criticism.

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  4. ——————————[HERE'S PART 2 TO ABOVE]————————-

    And yes, Hoffman, life is very much war, humans being sinners, and regardless of “Neanderthals,” it’s well-known method of war to threaten retaliation in kind for whatever one may complain of one’s enemies, like bombing of civilians.

    So what’s Hoffman’s real object for this latest article of his?–just more of his usual moralistic virtue-signaling and one-upsmanship, pretending, like the Pelagian hereticalist he is, to knowing all about moralistic “virtue,” lecturing others–like he evidently does for his own, poor, victimized children.

    For it’s Hoffman and hubris-filled Pelagianists like him who are the real problem of our present society consumed in satanism and satanic, extreme subjectivism, pretending to what doesn’t exist, like child’s “good-evil” and a perfectly “free” God-like will. Hitler was actually a great hero bravely fighting this horrific and ever-expanding satanism, and he was magnificent for naming and confronting the Jew.

    But Hitler only failed for the larger cultural issue of satanism in general, founded in subjectivism, hubris, and moralism, for which Jews are the natural leaders, but themselves don’t originate, only taking advantage and manipulating it, due to their natural and thematic superior collectivist cohesion and organization, for their own purposes–as we see in this day, having become masters by specific means of that amazing criminal enterprise of fiat-currency (legalized counterfeiting) and central-banking–which subject-matters Hoffman hasn’t the slightest grasp or understanding.

    Read More
    • Troll: utu, Che Guava
    • Replies: @isthatright
    Go back to Brietbart!
    , @my2cents
    You seem to have the misplaced notion that anyone should be interested in your vitriol.
    As someone who survived WWII in the Netherlands and 3 incendiary bombings by the US Army Air Corps with a faulty atlas let me advise you to refrain from any comment on WWII or religion, take you Lithium and stay off the keyboard for the next few days.....and then try to be civil in the future......Hmm???
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  5. I cannot fathom the obvious vitriol flowing through the pair of comments “appollonian” posted. I have read Michael Hoffman’s work extensively and consider the essay on the tragedy of Dresden and related mass murders of people one of his most heart-felt and powerful. A scientist by training and predilection, I cannot engage competently the several “Pelagian” references and the following nasty attack:

    “So what’s Hoffman’s real object for this latest article of his?–just more of his usual moralistic virtue-signaling and one-upsmanship, pretending, like the Pelagian hereticalist he is, to knowing all about moralistic “virtue,” lecturing others–like he evidently does for his own, poor, victimized children.”

    I do wonder why the moderator — this comment thread is moderated, I presume — allowed the two postings by “appollonian”, apparently his|her first two on this site, and specifically motivated by attacking Mr. Hoffman. I hope others who frequent this site can express similar sensibilities.

    Read More
    • Replies: @apollonian
    Liar Who Lies Backs-Up Hereticalist, Hypocrite

    What's this, "alan"?--u "can't fathom"?--well, we're not surprised as u're not too bright are u? And what?--u can't "engage" Pelagianism?--pretending to child's "good-evil"?--and u can't go to Wikipedia or use the search engine?--but who's fault is that?

    Evidently, u're soooo brainlessly incompetent as to beggar belief, eh?--and we see u're just another liar, advocating the same sort of censorship that Hoffman practices at same time he hypocritically complains about it so often as he does in his putrid passive-aggressive, pathetic, and self-pitying manner.

    But those are just my opinions, "alan," buddy, and I back them up w. substantial pts., info, and facts which u pretend are "vitriolic," liar as u are, though u're entitled to ur opinions too, eh? So people can read ur lies and my facts and see how it all reflects on ur hero, Hoffman.
    , @t-gordon
    Sadly, I believe that there's more than a grain of truth behind both the author's and apollonian's 'revisions' to the mainstream narrative. Being the Pelagianist (I had to look that one up) that I am, I still believe in the reality Jesus Christ and his teachings, but... Regardless, according to "apollonian", I'm hellbound for daring to question Man's total depravity. In his book I might as well be a soulless communist/relativist/Satanist. In my book, I am far from any of those three. Aww Shucks. Someday, we'll all find out. Hubris?
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  6. @Alan Donelson
    I cannot fathom the obvious vitriol flowing through the pair of comments "appollonian" posted. I have read Michael Hoffman's work extensively and consider the essay on the tragedy of Dresden and related mass murders of people one of his most heart-felt and powerful. A scientist by training and predilection, I cannot engage competently the several "Pelagian" references and the following nasty attack:

    "So what’s Hoffman’s real object for this latest article of his?–just more of his usual moralistic virtue-signaling and one-upsmanship, pretending, like the Pelagian hereticalist he is, to knowing all about moralistic “virtue,” lecturing others–like he evidently does for his own, poor, victimized children."

    I do wonder why the moderator -- this comment thread is moderated, I presume -- allowed the two postings by "appollonian", apparently his|her first two on this site, and specifically motivated by attacking Mr. Hoffman. I hope others who frequent this site can express similar sensibilities.

    Liar Who Lies Backs-Up Hereticalist, Hypocrite

    What’s this, “alan”?–u “can’t fathom”?–well, we’re not surprised as u’re not too bright are u? And what?–u can’t “engage” Pelagianism?–pretending to child’s “good-evil”?–and u can’t go to Wikipedia or use the search engine?–but who’s fault is that?

    Evidently, u’re soooo brainlessly incompetent as to beggar belief, eh?–and we see u’re just another liar, advocating the same sort of censorship that Hoffman practices at same time he hypocritically complains about it so often as he does in his putrid passive-aggressive, pathetic, and self-pitying manner.

    But those are just my opinions, “alan,” buddy, and I back them up w. substantial pts., info, and facts which u pretend are “vitriolic,” liar as u are, though u’re entitled to ur opinions too, eh? So people can read ur lies and my facts and see how it all reflects on ur hero, Hoffman.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greg Bacon
    Looks like somebody got their knickers in a twist when Hoffman dare use the copyright-protected Holocau$t™ to describe GOYIM getting burnt alive in an event which actually happened.
    , @NoseytheDuke
    Sorry, OT but where did you go to school? If you did that is.

    I really tried to read your comment but found it to be in some sort of code. I suppose it was meant for some secret agent of some sort so carry on.
    , @Quartermaster
    You have a serious problem with spelling and usage. The proper terms are "Pelagian," and "Heretic." Both are irrelevant to the article and leads me to wonder if you even understand the terms in the first place.
    , @Gordon Pratt
    Attacking a man through his family as Applolian tried to do to Hoffman is reptilian.
    , @Dissident X
    I believe that you could be more effective if you stuck to the facts and tried, as best possible, to avoid personal criticisms.

    I believe that you can agree that wide distribution of the fact-based history, and the inherent trends that are embedded within it, in a manner that can be accepted by the majority, is the logical first step in overcoming the growing oppression.

    I can see that you have some facts on your side, but your style alienates people, and plays into the anti-social narrative likely put in place to just so inoculate the majority from the truth.

    One can see a useful array of facts in the Hoffman article that could be further enhanced with more facts, to form an argument with more potential uptake.
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  7. Marcus says:

    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

    Read More
    • Replies: @apollonian
    Marcus: just another Jewwy liar who, naturally, omits to providing any ref. to backing-up his lies, lying. And Germans haven't "lost," sucker--the war against satanism continues, didn't u know?
    , @Wally
    No he did not.
    You have no proof or you would produce it.
    , @Ace
    He might have been a trifle stressed when he said that but probably it was calm, deliberate assessment if you think about it.
    , @Seamus Padraig

    Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing.
     
    I bet he never anticipated that Angela Merkel would be the one carrying out the sentence!
    , @Zumbuddi
    A vile thing to say, Marcus, doubtless a mindless echo of Allied propaganda. Unless you can provide a solid source & context??
    , @athEIst
    deserved to be obliterated

    But he was under a lot of stress
    , @RadicalCenter
    Cool. The same applies to “native” Indians in the Americas, right?
    , @Jon Halpenny
    "The German people has not fought heroically. It deserves to perish. "


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9634647/Everyone-lied-to-me-Hitlers-rant-in-bunker.html
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  8. @Marcus
    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

    Marcus: just another Jewwy liar who, naturally, omits to providing any ref. to backing-up his lies, lying. And Germans haven’t “lost,” sucker–the war against satanism continues, didn’t u know?

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    • Troll: Ace
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    Please don't waste our time with any more of your outrageous comments, the rest of us here seem to be able to appreciate this article for what it was.
    , @Giuseppe
    Your movement now only generates revulsion, you folks aren't even interesting any more.
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  9. The first I ever read of the firebombing of Dresden was in the novel by Kurt Vonnegut Jr. (yes, I know, that old lefty) “Slaughterhouse 5″. I was shocked that none of that had been covered in any of the history courses of the 20th century.

    As it turns out, Kurt Vonnegut Jr. was a POW in Dresden and survived the bombing and the resulting firestorm that killed over 100,000 civilians. He included his own witness of the bombing raids in the main character. The novel was made into a movie:

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  10. Wally says:
    @Marcus
    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

    No he did not.
    You have no proof or you would produce it.

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    A lazy Neo-Nazi would of course be unaware of the Nero Decree, and Hitler's reasoning for it. Hitler had 100x the honesty of his whiny modern followers, destruction of Germany was consistent with his belief might makes right,

    It is better to destroy these things ourselves ... the people have proven themselves the weaker, and the future belongs to the stronger population in the east.
     
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  11. Three points.

    1. Dresden had no military value. There were no military factories or bases, which is why it had never been bombed and was thus favored by refugees.

    2. The Allies had clearly won at this point and expected final victory in a few weeks.

    3. It doesn’t matter what the Nazis had done because we are supposedly better people.

    For those unfamiliar, the British bombed at night, which was safer, but couldn’t see any targets. The city was the target, which they bombed with firebombs to start fires and burn up everyone.

    This was clearly a war crime, as reluctantly admitted by SecDef Robert McNamara.

    And this continues to this day, as the US military destroyed the Syrian city of Raqqa. Mercenaries that the USA/Israel/Saudi axis of evil paid to invade Syria had gone rogue and were relabeled as “ISIS”. After lots of bombing, ISIS agreed to the the American offer and allowed these terrorists to leave Raqqa peacefully.

    Americans never see this reality on their “news” networks.

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    • Replies: @The King is A Fink

    For those unfamiliar, the British bombed at night, which was safer, but couldn’t see any targets. The city was the target, which they bombed with firebombs to start fires and burn up everyone.
     
    I'm going to have to pull you up on this one. The RAF flew at much lower altitudes, making them more vulnerable to flak and the Luftwaffe night fighters. My uncle and his crew are buried in a Commonwealth cemetery in southern Poland. The same radar-guided Luftwaffe pilot shot down three of their squadrons' aircraft in one night.
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  12. Ace says:
    @Marcus
    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

    He might have been a trifle stressed when he said that but probably it was calm, deliberate assessment if you think about it.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    It's doubtful that Hitler assessed anything calmly and deliberately after about 1943, given his use of amphetamines and Dolophine . By most accounts, he was extremely unstable and given to rages.

    No calm, deliberate assessment could lead any thinking human being into deciding that his own people deserved obliteration simply for being defeated, especially if that human being was their leader in the war. Face it; Hitler was clearly insane once the war went against him and he succumbed to drug addiction.

    Before he actually went nuts, he was pretty much fucked in the squash after the "Great War".
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  13. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    If you don’t want to be burned to ashes, don’t fuck with the Jews.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    If you don’t want to be burned to ashes, don’t fuck with the Jews.
     
    Doesn't work that way.

    Those backward, infantile, narcissistic, psychopathic, crackpots have a long record of gratuitous sadism and evidently plenty of them'll fuck with you and dominate you in unimaginable and ineffable ways for the cheap, transient thrills. There's a record that their own Gawd couldn't even stand 'em from the sound of it.

    The dude's due to smite the hideous parasites once again, and soon, I hope.

    PS: You dandy fopling Izzy firsters will eventually be tossed under the bus by the worst of 'em, and I'm stocking up on popcorn and hope I'm around for the show. Schadenfreude can be a muthu too.

    , @RadicalCenter
    Jews continue to marry nonJews at a high rate in the USA, which has the most Jews after Israel itself.

    As for Europe, like Christians and secularists, Jews will flee as Muslims take over.

    As for Israel itself, Arab Muslims and ultraOrthodox Jews continue to have higher fertility rates than other Jews. NonOrthdox Jews may find themselves a smaller and smaller minority, and Jews themselves eventually may be a minority in that country. The process will be stopped for a while, and slowed thereafter, if many Jews from Europe seek refuge in Israel, but the process will resume again,

    Jews managed to destroy other peoples — and encourage other peoples to pervert, debase, and destroy themselves and each other — but they haven’t managed to save themselves either in the longer term.

    , @plonialmoni
    You make the Jews sound very dangerous. Are you an Anti-Semite?
    , @Olorin
    So you are saying "The Holocaust" (TM) is an invention--an inversion of truth if you will?
    , @in the middle
    Or with the Germans, for that matter! Did they burned the talmudists? according to talmudists? no proof, but hey, the sheep keeps believing the biggest lie ever! God bless Reina Isabella of Spain!
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  14. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Churchill and his top military circle were not Judaic, yet they set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

    War brings out the UGLY in every group. But, the Brits didn’t want to kill so many Germans as part of some grand strategy. Instead, the war got really ugly, and it brought out the vengeful and sadistic side of human nature. In other words, had there been no war between UK and Germany, the Brits never would have wanted to kill all those Germans. Once a fight breaks out, a kind of rage takes over. People lose all sense of proportions and want to do maximum damage. This is why boxing has referees. Without them, it can easily lead to murder in the ring.

    Unlike Brits who just lost their heads in the bloody melee, German policy in the East wasn’t a case of violent overreaction. There was a radical plan of genocide and slavery on an unprecedented scale. Not only did the Germans attack first and not only were they willing to do ANYTHING to defeat the USSR, but the planned ‘peace’ would have meant whole extermination of tens of millions of Russians and enslavement of the rest.

    So, while I agree that the Dresden bombing was a war crime and shouldn’t have been committed, I still see it as an evil act among many evil acts in a war that brought out the worst on all sides. It was the fury of war that made the Brits act devilish.
    In contrast, Hitler had a devilish plan even in peacetime prior to the war and would have acted devilishly further had he won in Russia. His ‘peace’ plan for Russia would have been 1000x more frightening that what UK did to Germany and even what Soviets did to Germany, which was abominable.

    It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it’s time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.

    Also, Hoffman’s mention of German as racial ‘cousins’ gives the game away. The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan’s UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans. The truly big failure was not Anglos failing to recognize Germans as their cousins but Germans having failed to recognize Slavs as racial cousins too.

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology. His way was death or enslavement of all Russian Slavs as a bunch of helots.

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    • Replies: @Carroll Price

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.
     
    When Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, he had already spent the prior 10 years battling, defeating, and preventing Jewish-led Red Revolutionist gangs from doing to Germany what they had already done to neighboring Russia. Contrary to Jewish propaganda encouraging people to assume otherwise, Adolph Hitler's primary mission in life was defeating Communism where it existed. Small wonder then that a Jewish propaganda mill continues doing everything in its power to convince the world what an evil man he was, when, in reality he was the best friend the Caucasian race and Western Civilization had, and probably ever will have.
    , @Anon
    I don't know we can say --after all these years of propaganda-- who really wanted to exterminate or had worse plans for whom. We can only judge the things that did happen. Also, it is a mistake to confuse 'government' with 'people'. Not all regions of Germany voted for Hitler, for example. And leaders like Churchill should be held to a higher standard than John Bull. If the Soviet Army had directives to rape, that's different than battle rage. Same with German summary execution of Jews on the Eastern front. And so on. But in this you are spot on:

    " It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it’s time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood."

    The tendency to only see evil outside ourselves leads to disaster. Even for convincing others, a balanced view that acknowledges our side's mistakes is more effective.

    , @fnn

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.
     
    Hitler invaded USSR because Britain refused peace terms and it was clear that FDR was gearing up to enter the war. Germany needed the resources of the Soviets to have any chance to defeat the American economic collosus in combination with the British Empire. Respected Establishment historians Adam Tooze and John Lukacs both say the invasion was entirely rational and necessary. But Hitker bungled it by not taking Moscow.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans.
     
    The Slovaks were NS Germany’s first allies. The Czechs under the occupation were given the same benefits as German workers- with the bonus of not being subject to conscription. The lack of discontent prompted the British to send in a Czech emigre team to assassinate Heydrich in order to stir things up. Hitler of course took the bait.

    Hitler also got along well with the Poles when Pilsudski was in charge. Here’s Wikipedia on Pilsudski:


    After Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in January 1933, Piłsudski is rumored to have proposed to France a preventive war against Germany. It has been argued that Piłsudski may have been sounding out France regarding possible joint military action against Germany.Lack of French interest may have been a reason for Poland signing the Non-Aggression Pact of January 1934. Little evidence has, however, been found in French or Polish diplomatic archives that such a proposal for preventive war was ever actually advanced.Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the Soviet Union, but Piłsudski declined, instead seeking precious time to prepare for potential war with either Germany or the Soviet Union. Just before his death, Piłsudski told Józef Beck that it must be Poland’s policy to maintain neutral relations with Germany, keep up the Polish alliance with France and improve relations with the United Kingdom.
     
    But there is a rather complicated history between Germans and Slavs:
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    With the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, millions of ethnic Germans became vulnerable minorities in other countries. Hundreds of thousands were either forcibly expelled to Germany or their situation was so desperate they emigrated to the Reich. Almost 10 percent of the ethnic German population of Czechoslovakia emigrated to Germany before 1938.

    I can attest that, to this day, French young people are not taught in school about the ethnic cleansing their forefathers committed against defeated Germany:

    In the wake of the First World War, the French had purged the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine, classified their population according to “blood origins” and driven out more than 90,000 people in barely a year: the German population of the Moselle department dropped from 164,502 in 1910 to under 45,000 in 1921. (199)

    A total of some 200,000 ethnic Germans were expelled from reannexed Alsace-Lorraine.

    The situation was similarly bad in Poland:

    In Poland itself, the Germans were seen as second-class citizens and traitors [. . .] “Polish land for the Poles” was a common watchword, and [Prime Minister Władysław] Sikorski spoke in 1923 of ‘de-Germanizing’ the western provinces. (36-37).

    Some 575,000 Germans would leave their ancestral lands in Poland to rejoin Germany between 1918 and 1926 alone, including half of the ethnic German populations of ceded Poznania and West Prussia. Mazower stresses that German expulsion and persecution of Poles was in some respects meant as both retaliation for and reversal of Polish policies:

    Everyone knew how, after 1918, their [ethnic Germans’] land had been confiscated or surrounded with subsidized clusters of new settlements. Hostile officials had discouraged them from speaking German or declaring themselves as Germans in censuses and even the landscape itself had been de-Germanized through changes to the names of families, streets and entire towns. In many areas Germans had been deliberately expelled; in others they had sold up and left, or bowed to the pressure to change their nationality. The Nazi regime saw reversing the effect of these decades as a priority. “Make this land German for me again!” Hitler had ordered an official after the conquest of northern Yugoslavia in 1941. His message to those he appointed to the Reich’s other borderlands was basically the same.
     

    On "anti-Slavism" as ideology:
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    Allied propaganda and conventional narratives emphasize that the Third Reich’s racial ideology saw Slavs as “subhumans,” a term in fact more often used in a dysgenic rather than ethnic sense. Mazower makes clear however the paradoxical fact that German racial science at the time was actually a moderating influence on Slavophobia, because Slavs were considered a linguistic rather than a racial group:

    Prewar Germany funded racial science well – as it did the sciences in general – and the Third Reich was a particularly generous sponsor. [. . .] The discipline of racial science itself was in turmoil, and many German scholars had already become aware of the difficulties. [. . .] [K]nowing how to distinguish a German from a non-German – the key concern for those running the new empire – was not something upon which it was possible to get expert consensus. (182)

    Hitler apparently agreed:

    Hitler himself thought Himmler’s race mysticism was impractical and, while hostile to Serbs and Russians in general, he felt differently about other groups of Slavs. He praised the Czechs as “industrious and intelligent workers” and speculated that blue-eyed Ukrainians might be “peasant descendants of German tribes who never migrated.” In fact, he came round to the view – common among German anthropologists – that there was, racial speaking, no such category as “Slavs”; it was a linguistic term, nothing more.
     

    , @jacques sheete

    The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan’s UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.
     
    Germany's main enemy was (and remains) a master of blaming others for their own crimes and shortcomings. The Nazis were up against some of the world's premier racists, i.e., Zionists who are themselves a particularly nasty offshoot of another vicious, hate-filled racist cult.

    Here's an example of what I'm referring to.:


    “”Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.”
    Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat.”According to Yosef, death has “no dominion” over non-Jews in Israel.

    "Hate the Gentile!" Israel’s Racist Rabbis, by JONATHAN COOK

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/10/israel-s-racist-rabbis/

     

    I'll take revisionist history over propaganda fantasy any day.
    , @in the middle
    At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans..

    NO, the issue here is that all we 'know' about the Germans comes from the winners,or the talmudists! I still have to see anything coming from the loosing side! Most books, movies, etc. are from Hollywood, and or Talmudists writers, so there you have it. Obviously talmudists are going to demonize the Germans, for what they perceive and consider an affront of a country which stood up against their devilish cunning and wicked manipulations.

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  15. @Marcus
    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

    Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing.

    I bet he never anticipated that Angela Merkel would be the one carrying out the sentence!

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  16. Excellent article.

    I was just in Dresden this past summer for the first time ever. I’m glad I went! Unlike the other major cities of Germany, Dresden has now completely restored its beautiful Baroque downtown–brick by brick, cobblestone by cobblestone. Easily the most beautiful major city in the country.

    Churchill was a contemptible cuck who failed at what he professed to care about most: the preservation of the British Empire. That war ended up reducing the UK to colony status under Washington. Nice going, Winnie the Dupe!

    As Hoffman alludes, the cult of Churchill (and that other scheming warmonger, Franklin Roosevelt), along with the endless praise and veneration of the of the ‘Good War,’ is–together with the magic 6 million figure–yet another article of faith in the new, post-war religion of Holocaustianity. All of these fake war-time national ‘heroes’ need to be exposed for what they really were: traitors and proto-globalists.

    Just one minor cavil with Hoffman:

    American civilization in 2018 is not worthy of the name. We have the illusion of a civilization, which we cherish for our own aggrandizement and nostalgia.

    Our own aggrandizement? C’mon, Michael! You know good and well (((whose))) aggrandizement this “illusion of a civilization” is really run for.

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  17. Alden says:
    @fnn
    "Guernica"

    A reasonable-sounding revisionist account of the Guernica bombing by a respected scholar:
    https://carolynyeager.net/guernica-politics-propaganda

    From an article based on interviews of participants and surviving documents of the Luftwaffe—specifically an unpublished history of the Legion Condor from the year1 940—by Alfred de Zayas 1, published in the Journal of the Bundeswehr in 1974, we learn the following:

    Guernica was on the front line and not an open city. It was heavily defended by six battalions of Basques and Santanders. An armament factory was inside the city and other Red Army facilities were in the immediate vicinity.

    An air attack at the bridge and road crossing east of Guernica was ordered. All Condor orders were strict that cities must be spared, and especially churches. (Knowing this, the “Rojas” (Reds) stored ammunition in churches, blowing them up when they couldn’t get it out). Only in special cases were military targets in cities permitted to be attacked.

    Nine aircraft dropped a total of 7950 kg of bombs, but no hits at the bridge were observed because visibility was very poor. The reason for the poor visibility was fire and smoke from the blasting and setting on fire by the Reds, and possibly the international brigades, ahead of the air attack. The relatively primitive targeting devices used at that time were also responsible for non-military objects being hit.
     

    Endnotes:
    “Guernica im Lichte neuerer Untersuchungen” (Guernica in Light of Latest Research), by Alfred Maurice de Zayas, Wehrforschung (WF), June 1974. De Zayas is a distinguished author, researcher and expert on international human rights.
     

    Guernica was a commie stronghold. Too bad their ideas survived and came to fruition in America

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Too bad their ideas survived and came to fruition in America
     
    Their ideas did much more than survive in this cesspool. Commie-nizm, if not made in Amerika, was financed and supported by many 'Merkin "elite." It was, and apparently still is, a very "kool" thing to do/ be.

    “Today I marvel that the world communist movement was able to beat the drums against Germany and never once betray what the inner group knew well: that some of the same forces which gave Hitler his start had also started Lenin and his staff of revolutionists from Switzerland to St. Petersburg to begin the revolution which was to result in the Soviet totalitarian state.”

    -Bella Dodd, School of Darkness, Ch 7
     

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  18. Alden says:

    Wanna come to a dinner honoring the 25th anniversary of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum 25th anniversary?

    This one is the monstrosity in DC, not one of the numerous others littering the country. The Jews renamed the street it’s on the Raul Wallenberg Place.

    It’s only $500 a ticket although becoming a sponsor or patron is encouraged and essential for Jewish social climbing purposes.

    Barbara Streisand and husband are on the committee along with Blacks, Ziffrens, Sabans, Sherry Lansing and the rest of the billionaires who own the Democrat anti White party

    It’s at the Beverly Hilton March 1. They are charging a lot for the tickets, but they are doing it on the cheap at the dowdy and déclassé Beverly Hilton.

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    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    Thanks for the invite, but after asking a couple of embarrassing questions to which there's no legitimate answer, they're throw me out - head-first.
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  19. Alden says:
    @fnn
    "Guernica"

    A reasonable-sounding revisionist account of the Guernica bombing by a respected scholar:
    https://carolynyeager.net/guernica-politics-propaganda

    From an article based on interviews of participants and surviving documents of the Luftwaffe—specifically an unpublished history of the Legion Condor from the year1 940—by Alfred de Zayas 1, published in the Journal of the Bundeswehr in 1974, we learn the following:

    Guernica was on the front line and not an open city. It was heavily defended by six battalions of Basques and Santanders. An armament factory was inside the city and other Red Army facilities were in the immediate vicinity.

    An air attack at the bridge and road crossing east of Guernica was ordered. All Condor orders were strict that cities must be spared, and especially churches. (Knowing this, the “Rojas” (Reds) stored ammunition in churches, blowing them up when they couldn’t get it out). Only in special cases were military targets in cities permitted to be attacked.

    Nine aircraft dropped a total of 7950 kg of bombs, but no hits at the bridge were observed because visibility was very poor. The reason for the poor visibility was fire and smoke from the blasting and setting on fire by the Reds, and possibly the international brigades, ahead of the air attack. The relatively primitive targeting devices used at that time were also responsible for non-military objects being hit.
     

    Endnotes:
    “Guernica im Lichte neuerer Untersuchungen” (Guernica in Light of Latest Research), by Alfred Maurice de Zayas, Wehrforschung (WF), June 1974. De Zayas is a distinguished author, researcher and expert on international human rights.
     

    The British had spy/observers in Guernica. They reported that the communists in Guernica set off the explosions. But the Jee media has claimed for 80 years that it was the eeeevil Germans and their reactionary Catholic allies who did the damage.

    His propaganda painting is a big treason Picasso was so highly regarded mid 20th century, he was a communist and the intellectuals adored him because of that.

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  20. This was a much-needed reminder of a forgotten and important chapter in WWII. Thank you, Michael Hoffman.

    History, we must recall, is written by the victors. In the most egregious cases, blame is assigned exclusively to the losing side in war; even when political complexities, unintended consequences, and moral ambiguity are major forces at play. This describes WWII as well as the modern view of WWII. Today’s official story boils down to this: The freedom-loving Good Guys fought and defeated the nasty evil Bad Guys. We won!

    Yet Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt all collaborated and orchestrated numerous war crimes during a preventable conflagration that could have been stopped years before Dresden was incinerated. And had a negotiated settlement been reached (Hitler wanted one) countless inmates who ended up dying of disease and starvation in German concentration camps could have been saved.

    But the glorious ‘Allies’ demanded Unconditional Surrender. Germany refused.

    Knowing what the British and Americans did to Germany following WWI (starvation blockade, exclusive blame and punishment imposed on Germany at the Treatise of Versailles) Hitler chose to fight on.

    Today, the blood-soaked tragedy of WWII has been boiled down to a comic book. Americans are fed a restricted diet of propagandistic, repetitive headlines with two major themes: Psychopathic Nazi Evil vs. Heroic Jewish Virtue. Little else matters. It was the ‘good war’. Never again!

    Yet the wars continue. And Zio-America is starting them.

    As for historic memory, the civilian deaths at Dresen probably exceed those at Hiroshima. But Dresden gets no coverage. Its victims receive little notice or sympathy. Why the difference between Hiroshima and Dresden?

    Jews.

    Imperial Japan did not target Jews. Hitler did.

    Meanwhile, the full dimension of human death, misery and suffering during WWII has been downgraded, censored and abridged. What matters most now is The Holocaust.

    Onward Christian soldiers. On to Damascus! On to Tehran! On To Moscow!

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    • Replies: @anonymous

    Onward Christian soldiers. On to Damascus! On to Tehran! On To Moscow!
     
    And, On to Hell!!
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  21. Zumbuddi says:

    Apollonian makes important points — Hoffman goes off the rails when he wanders into Neanderthal territory.
    Or rather, when he wanders into Neanderthal territory and finds there Hitler, guilty of “retaliating” to repeated provocations, but fails to identify as Queen of Neanderthal/primitives the demon Lipstadt. That creature was not attacked with a sharp enough spear.

    Hoffman’s ostensible memorial to Dresden’s victims distracts itself, it puts a spanner in its own gears.

    But the basic sentiment is appreciated: RIP Beautiful Dresden. You are not forgotten.

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  22. Zumbuddi says:
    @Marcus
    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

    A vile thing to say, Marcus, doubtless a mindless echo of Allied propaganda. Unless you can provide a solid source & context??

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  23. I invite anyone to read
    Victor Klemperer, ‘I will bear witness, A diary of the Nazi years, 1942-1945’, New York 1999
    Klemperer was a jew, living in Dresden, who was treated badly, but never deported, he was married to a ‘full German’ woman.
    The couple survived the bombing, but Klemper’s description of what he saw is more than horrible, people still living, burning, fosfor.
    From a military point of view the bombing was nonsense, the war was in fact over, the old city was bombed, that had no industries at all.
    The estimated number of deaths over time went down all the time, no count was done at the time, there were more urgent things to do.
    I long wondered about the why, from bits of information here and there I now suppose it was to impress Stalin with the military might of the west.
    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.

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    • Replies: @EugeneGur

    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.
     
    It is interesting for a psychiatrist, perhaps. Good Germans also never saw concentrations camps or gas chambers even when they could see them from their windows. You, for example, is hard at work denying facts documented in literally tons of documents, photos, films, witness accounts, because you can find some Victor or other who, interestingly, never saw anything. if you knew anything about proof, you'd know that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because somebody saw nothing doesn't mean there was nothing to see.

    BTW you should make up your mind, and so does that Victor character - either there was no prosecution (he was married to a German woman, after all and lived happily ever after, how nice!) or prosecution was justified. He understands why Hitler prosecuted Jews, doesn't he, and, apparently, so do you.

    But if it is OK to prosecute all Jews (including newborns, I presume) for whatever crime they supposedly committed it's equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should't complain about Dresden.
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  24. athEIst says:
    @Marcus
    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

    deserved to be obliterated

    But he was under a lot of stress

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  25. yurivku says:

    It was a funny reading. The story how one Western animals have killed the others.
    For me both deserved to be eliminated. If evil Red Army did it probably now I could have understood it. But it did not, stupid Russian even feed Germans after soldiers came to Berlin.
    Really stupid. Now western bastards blaim them for everything.

    It was Shrove Tuesday, 1945 in the magnificent German art city of Dresden, which was packed with helpless Christian refugees fleeing the Red Army of the Stalinist USSR.

    And nobody cries of them.

    Those innocent people (“helpless Christian refugees”) were mothers, sisters and childs of those innocent killers who came to Russia, killed really innocent people and commit such crimes that normal humal even can’t imagine. Who cries of them except us?
    There are a number of bastards here at UNZ who claim that 26 millions of Russians were killed by Stalin and Jews associated with him, not innocent Germans. And those horrible Russians raped millions of innocent NAZY women.

    After seeing it I just stop regretting of killed German civilians. What about anlosax killers? They did it everywhere – Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria … wherever they come in and where nobody can fight back. And they won’t stop themselves.

    When author switched to Jewish question, I’ve stopped reading. I’m not approving Jews with their “holocaust”, but who cares about near 30 millions of Russians?

    Hypocritical bastards.

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    • Replies: @ты сука
    Get a life сука : )
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  26. @apollonian
    Marcus: just another Jewwy liar who, naturally, omits to providing any ref. to backing-up his lies, lying. And Germans haven't "lost," sucker--the war against satanism continues, didn't u know?

    Please don’t waste our time with any more of your outrageous comments, the rest of us here seem to be able to appreciate this article for what it was.

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  27. The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people

    There obviously has been a concerted effort over recent decades (in Germany as well) to reduce the death toll to more “manageable”levels, for example:

    Dresden bombing death toll lower than thought

    . . . But a special commission, comprising 13 prominent German historians, has now revealed that the previous figures were exaggerated or derived from dubious sources.

    Instead, they concluded that no more than 25,000 people died during the attacks, debunking the claims of many revisionist historians who wished to compare the bombing to the Holocaust.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/3123512/Dresden-bombing-death-toll-lower-than-thought.html

    Are you aware of any credible counter-studies that support higher figures?

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I don't have time right now for a detailed comment, but the "100 000 dead" figure imo isn't credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough, I'd definitely regard the bombings done by the RAF in late 1944/early 1945 as war crimes at least in a moral, if not legal sense). People interested in the subject should look at Richard Overy's recent "The bombing war", he gives convincing reasons why casualty figures for WW2 bombing in Europe tend to be inflated more generally (this also applies to German bombing btw, claims that the Luftwaffe killed 500 000 Soviet citizens are exaggerations by a factor of ten or so).
    , @Quartermaster
    I don't know of any recent studies, but the 100k deaths are reasonable given what was happening at the time. Dresden had become something of a choke point for refugees and military who were withdrawing in the face of the Soviet advance. The authorities at the time are the source of the casualty figure and civic authorities in Germany were not given to inflating such things.

    The Dresden missions resulted in by far the largest firestorm of the war. The earlier firestorm in Hamburg was accidental. Bomber Command and 8th Air Force figured out how to create the storms with intent. Under the circumstances, 100k+ deaths is quite reasonable.
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  28. Giuseppe says:
    @apollonian
    Marcus: just another Jewwy liar who, naturally, omits to providing any ref. to backing-up his lies, lying. And Germans haven't "lost," sucker--the war against satanism continues, didn't u know?

    Your movement now only generates revulsion, you folks aren’t even interesting any more.

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  29. IMHO, the only sure thing about war are the unintended horrific consequences. Those battle
    plans fall apart as soon as the other side fights back.
    The only rule is kill or be killed.

    Non-combatants like the artistic community of Dresden always seem to suffer the worst.

    More recent examples are all the negatives
    resulting from the Bush/Clinton (G. W. Bush and Hillary) acts of whacking various strong men such as Saddam Hussein and Mr. Kadhafy (sp?)

    We can see with hindsight that both killings had no justification. How many civilians dead in Iraq? How many migrants thru Libya to rape European girls? What has followed to fill the power vacuum is no good for anyone.

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  30. roof10 says:

    I saw no mention of the firebombing of Coventry by the Germans in 1940. Perhaps an oversight.

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    • Replies: @James Kabala
    Some also might be under the impression that Warsaw (which the Germans destroyed) and Paris (which Hitler wanted to destroy) were among the "cultural treasure houses of western civilization," but I guess only German cities count.
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  31. @for-the-record
    The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people

    There obviously has been a concerted effort over recent decades (in Germany as well) to reduce the death toll to more "manageable"levels, for example:

    Dresden bombing death toll lower than thought

    . . . But a special commission, comprising 13 prominent German historians, has now revealed that the previous figures were exaggerated or derived from dubious sources.

    Instead, they concluded that no more than 25,000 people died during the attacks, debunking the claims of many revisionist historians who wished to compare the bombing to the Holocaust.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/3123512/Dresden-bombing-death-toll-lower-than-thought.html
     
    Are you aware of any credible counter-studies that support higher figures?

    I don’t have time right now for a detailed comment, but the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough, I’d definitely regard the bombings done by the RAF in late 1944/early 1945 as war crimes at least in a moral, if not legal sense). People interested in the subject should look at Richard Overy’s recent “The bombing war”, he gives convincing reasons why casualty figures for WW2 bombing in Europe tend to be inflated more generally (this also applies to German bombing btw, claims that the Luftwaffe killed 500 000 Soviet citizens are exaggerations by a factor of ten or so).

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    • Replies: @for-the-record
    I don’t have time right now for a detailed comment, but the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough,

    You obviously are in a much better position than I am to evaluate the conflicting evidence. What I find interesting, and not often referred to (as far as I am aware), are the population statistics. The ones cited by Wikipedia (which seem to be from official sources), show the following:

    31. Dezember 1938 -- 634.400
    17. Mai 1939 -- 629.713
    31. Dezember 1940 -- 626.900
    31. Dezember 1944 -- 566.738
    30. April 1945 -- 368.519
    31. Mai 1945 -- 397.676
    1. Dezember 1945 -- 454.249
    29. Oktober 1946 -- 467.966
    31. August 1950 -- 494.187

    Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einwohnerentwicklung_von_Dresden#cite_note-2

    Obviously many people must have left the city because their homes had been destroyed, but it does suggest the scale of the damage.

    , @utu

    the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible
     
    Because it was more than 100,000. German cuckhood of which German_reader is an exemplar reached zenith after the reunification. They agreed to link Dresden to British Coventry narrative and drastically lowered the number of dead. During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly. The bombing raids were officially called terrorist. And now in the unified crucified Germany we learn it was justified because of Coventry. How many people died in Coventry?
    , @utu
    Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five (1969) is one of the best anti-war novels. The film adaptation (1972) was surprisingly good.

    Vonnegut probably used 1963 David Irving's The Destruction of Dresden thought most is based on his experiences as a POW in Dresden.

    Surprisingly one of the first post war sympathetic to Germans portrayal of Dresden bombing comes from Polish 1961 feature movie "Tonight a City Will Die"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS2wZfFv94k
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  32. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @apollonian
    Liar Who Lies Backs-Up Hereticalist, Hypocrite

    What's this, "alan"?--u "can't fathom"?--well, we're not surprised as u're not too bright are u? And what?--u can't "engage" Pelagianism?--pretending to child's "good-evil"?--and u can't go to Wikipedia or use the search engine?--but who's fault is that?

    Evidently, u're soooo brainlessly incompetent as to beggar belief, eh?--and we see u're just another liar, advocating the same sort of censorship that Hoffman practices at same time he hypocritically complains about it so often as he does in his putrid passive-aggressive, pathetic, and self-pitying manner.

    But those are just my opinions, "alan," buddy, and I back them up w. substantial pts., info, and facts which u pretend are "vitriolic," liar as u are, though u're entitled to ur opinions too, eh? So people can read ur lies and my facts and see how it all reflects on ur hero, Hoffman.

    Looks like somebody got their knickers in a twist when Hoffman dare use the copyright-protected Holocau$t™ to describe GOYIM getting burnt alive in an event which actually happened.

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  33. The bottom line is that while Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and hundreds of other Allied crimes against humanity are all well documented and open to further discussion and questioning, the Jewish holohoax alone remains an undocumented accusation made by less than a dozen eye witnesses, with stiff prison sentences being handed out to Europeans who dare question the alleged event. So please explain to me again how Jews don’t control the Western World.

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    • Replies: @nabiru
    @Carol. The Jews are not in control anywhere.They have a Lord who control all things on this planet.
    The Jew is the necessary thing to be seen by the people of the world . The Jew has to take the blame since the Old Contract was arranged by them and their Lord . Of course the Lord is not God but a
    few thousand of highly intelligent persons .
    The fire bombing of the German people was not by the order of Churchill but was designed by Lord Turso aka Archibald Sinclear and carried out by the pyromaniac Harris.Churchill could not order anything since he was drunk most of the time.Carol if you find out who is the Lord of the Jews than you will understand what's going on. Until than you are all chasing a black cat in a dark room blindfolded.
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  34. Jake says:

    “At this juncture we pause to contemplate the bloody treason that was at the heart of Churchill’s soul: he wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible, so he could point to their deaths as the justification for a total war against Germany, and he succeeded in his objective.”

    Churchill was an evil man, down to the very marrow bone. It began long before WW2.

    Many – almost all of them WASPs or Jews – celebrate him as the greatest leader of the 20th century.

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  35. Hilarious spoof but the main point is near the end: “If the powers that be decided, for example [sic!], that Russia needed to be fire-bombed, given sufficient pretext our “Conservatives” would do it all over again in the name of “civilization.” The blood of the innocent in Moscow and St. Petersburg would signify no more to the Hillsdale College type of crusaders than the charred bodies of the civilians in the apocalyptic wreckage of Dresden. For example! Just a random example that came into the author’s head! Amusing aside: Putin was actually stationed in Dresden as a KGB officer.

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  36. Jake says:

    “A thousand years of national and religious wars in Europe had not managed to wreak the destruction which Mr. Churchill and U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt directed against the cultural treasure houses of western civilization, in cities like Dresden. They tossed a match into Dresden as casually as a drooling meth addict would torch an apartment building for revenge on the landlord who had evicted him.”

    The first sentence is true, if the subject is restricted to physical destruction of cities. But the religious and cultural destruction was necessary to getting us the French and Bolshevik Revolutions and the 2 World Wars.

    The second sentence is a masterpiece of imagery.

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    • Agree: Carroll Price
    • Replies: @Johann
    The Americans did their part of religious/cultural devastation when they bombed the fifteen hundred year old monastery of Saint Benedict at Monte Cassino. The Americans justified their act of barbarism and incineration by claiming that the monastery was being used by German artillery spotters; they never provided any proof that this was true.
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  37. @Anon
    Churchill and his top military circle were not Judaic, yet they set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

    War brings out the UGLY in every group. But, the Brits didn't want to kill so many Germans as part of some grand strategy. Instead, the war got really ugly, and it brought out the vengeful and sadistic side of human nature. In other words, had there been no war between UK and Germany, the Brits never would have wanted to kill all those Germans. Once a fight breaks out, a kind of rage takes over. People lose all sense of proportions and want to do maximum damage. This is why boxing has referees. Without them, it can easily lead to murder in the ring.

    Unlike Brits who just lost their heads in the bloody melee, German policy in the East wasn't a case of violent overreaction. There was a radical plan of genocide and slavery on an unprecedented scale. Not only did the Germans attack first and not only were they willing to do ANYTHING to defeat the USSR, but the planned 'peace' would have meant whole extermination of tens of millions of Russians and enslavement of the rest.

    So, while I agree that the Dresden bombing was a war crime and shouldn't have been committed, I still see it as an evil act among many evil acts in a war that brought out the worst on all sides. It was the fury of war that made the Brits act devilish.
    In contrast, Hitler had a devilish plan even in peacetime prior to the war and would have acted devilishly further had he won in Russia. His 'peace' plan for Russia would have been 1000x more frightening that what UK did to Germany and even what Soviets did to Germany, which was abominable.

    It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it's time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler's actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.

    Also, Hoffman's mention of German as racial 'cousins' gives the game away. The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan's UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans. The truly big failure was not Anglos failing to recognize Germans as their cousins but Germans having failed to recognize Slavs as racial cousins too.

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology. His way was death or enslavement of all Russian Slavs as a bunch of helots.

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.

    When Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, he had already spent the prior 10 years battling, defeating, and preventing Jewish-led Red Revolutionist gangs from doing to Germany what they had already done to neighboring Russia. Contrary to Jewish propaganda encouraging people to assume otherwise, Adolph Hitler’s primary mission in life was defeating Communism where it existed. Small wonder then that a Jewish propaganda mill continues doing everything in its power to convince the world what an evil man he was, when, in reality he was the best friend the Caucasian race and Western Civilization had, and probably ever will have.

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    Hitler may have hated Commies, but his plans for Eastward expansion were long-held. According to Clive Ponting, Von Ribbentrop, while visiting Churchill at his country house, Chartwell, several years before the outbreak of war, showed Churchill a map of Germany's intended conquest of Russia, and asked what Churchill thought. Churchill is reported to have responded: "We don't like the Russians, but we don't hate them that much."

    And the plan for German Eastward expansion goes back long before Hitler, in fact to Bismarck, who, when urged to found a German overseas empire, pointed to a map of Eastern Europe, saying "here is my empire."

    Even Churchill was appalled, so it is reported, by the pointless atrocity of Dresden, muttering, after viewing photographs (or a newsreel, by some accounts) of the wreckage, "Have we become beasts?"

    But then men are beasts and always have been, and when it comes to war, they will stop at nothing to gain victory. That is the logic of natural selection.

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  38. @apollonian
    Liar Who Lies Backs-Up Hereticalist, Hypocrite

    What's this, "alan"?--u "can't fathom"?--well, we're not surprised as u're not too bright are u? And what?--u can't "engage" Pelagianism?--pretending to child's "good-evil"?--and u can't go to Wikipedia or use the search engine?--but who's fault is that?

    Evidently, u're soooo brainlessly incompetent as to beggar belief, eh?--and we see u're just another liar, advocating the same sort of censorship that Hoffman practices at same time he hypocritically complains about it so often as he does in his putrid passive-aggressive, pathetic, and self-pitying manner.

    But those are just my opinions, "alan," buddy, and I back them up w. substantial pts., info, and facts which u pretend are "vitriolic," liar as u are, though u're entitled to ur opinions too, eh? So people can read ur lies and my facts and see how it all reflects on ur hero, Hoffman.

    Sorry, OT but where did you go to school? If you did that is.

    I really tried to read your comment but found it to be in some sort of code. I suppose it was meant for some secret agent of some sort so carry on.

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  39. Jake says:

    “If the powers that be decided, for example, that Russia needed to be fire-bombed, given sufficient pretext our “Conservatives” would do it all over again in the name of “civilization.” The blood of the innocent in Moscow and St. Petersburg would signify no more to the Hillsdale College type of crusaders than the charred bodies of the civilians in the apocalyptic wreckage of Dresden.”

    Why would the ‘conservative’ Evangelicals have very little, if any, qualms about the US firebombing of civilians in non-English-speaking European countries?

    They are products of WASP culture. Their primary spiritual and cultural Father is Oliver Cromwell. Anglo-Saxon Puritanism was a Judaizing heresy, which means it has always spread ‘Talmudism’ indirectly via its heretical ideas. Oliver Cromwell himself made clear how deeply powerful was the spirit of Judaizing by making alliance with Jews, specifically to take Jewish money to better enable him and his WASPs to wage wars against the majority of Christians native to the British Isles.

    You cannot separate the Jewish/Talmudic problem in the Modern world from the WASP problem.

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  40. @Alden
    Wanna come to a dinner honoring the 25th anniversary of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum 25th anniversary?

    This one is the monstrosity in DC, not one of the numerous others littering the country. The Jews renamed the street it’s on the Raul Wallenberg Place.

    It’s only $500 a ticket although becoming a sponsor or patron is encouraged and essential for Jewish social climbing purposes.

    Barbara Streisand and husband are on the committee along with Blacks, Ziffrens, Sabans, Sherry Lansing and the rest of the billionaires who own the Democrat anti White party

    It’s at the Beverly Hilton March 1. They are charging a lot for the tickets, but they are doing it on the cheap at the dowdy and déclassé Beverly Hilton.

    Thanks for the invite, but after asking a couple of embarrassing questions to which there’s no legitimate answer, they’re throw me out – head-first.

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  41. @Anonymous
    If you don't want to be burned to ashes, don't fuck with the Jews.

    If you don’t want to be burned to ashes, don’t fuck with the Jews.

    Doesn’t work that way.

    Those backward, infantile, narcissistic, psychopathic, crackpots have a long record of gratuitous sadism and evidently plenty of them’ll fuck with you and dominate you in unimaginable and ineffable ways for the cheap, transient thrills. There’s a record that their own Gawd couldn’t even stand ‘em from the sound of it.

    The dude’s due to smite the hideous parasites once again, and soon, I hope.

    PS: You dandy fopling Izzy firsters will eventually be tossed under the bus by the worst of ‘em, and I’m stocking up on popcorn and hope I’m around for the show. Schadenfreude can be a muthu too.

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    • Replies: @Sherman
    "Plenty of them'll fuck with you and dominate you in unimaginable and ineffable ways for the cheap, transient thrills".

    Being f*cked and dominated by Jews (likely a male Jew) appears to be some erotic fantasy of yours!

    I hope you were keeping your hands on the keyboard when you wrote this!

    Shalom,
    Sherm
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  42. n230099 says:

    “In the sky Allied fighter planes caught sight of the civilian train and opened fire on the children inside, whose blood was soon pouring out of the wreckage.”

    Yeah, boo-hoo. Here’s the bottom line. We continue to have wars because we made ‘rules’ for war. Manufactured indignation about war tactics is amusing. If everyone knew that war meant ‘real’ war, the incentive to participate might be dampened. But as it is now, countries and ‘watchdog’ groups are like sissy-boy NFL players that after every play are seen to be looking for the ‘ref’…”did you see where he touched me?” Ignore the rules for once and see what happens…what have we got to lose?

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  43. Marcus says:
    @Wally
    No he did not.
    You have no proof or you would produce it.

    A lazy Neo-Nazi would of course be unaware of the Nero Decree, and Hitler’s reasoning for it. Hitler had 100x the honesty of his whiny modern followers, destruction of Germany was consistent with his belief might makes right,

    It is better to destroy these things ourselves … the people have proven themselves the weaker, and the future belongs to the stronger population in the east.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    "Neo-Nazi" .... yawn.

    The typical childish response from a dumb Zionist.

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    Again, where's your proof for you assertion?

    You just typed some text and put a blockquote around, as if it were actually Hitler.

    See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

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  44. No doubt horrid beyond words, war being the ultimate expression of human insanity, however the other aspect of this historic pandemonia being :

    ” Wollt Ihr den totalen Krieg” . “JA” !!!

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jaz musician.

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    • Replies: @Byrresheim
    You may include my two grandfathers out.

    Thank you.
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  45. Jake says:
    @fnn
    "Guernica"

    A reasonable-sounding revisionist account of the Guernica bombing by a respected scholar:
    https://carolynyeager.net/guernica-politics-propaganda

    From an article based on interviews of participants and surviving documents of the Luftwaffe—specifically an unpublished history of the Legion Condor from the year1 940—by Alfred de Zayas 1, published in the Journal of the Bundeswehr in 1974, we learn the following:

    Guernica was on the front line and not an open city. It was heavily defended by six battalions of Basques and Santanders. An armament factory was inside the city and other Red Army facilities were in the immediate vicinity.

    An air attack at the bridge and road crossing east of Guernica was ordered. All Condor orders were strict that cities must be spared, and especially churches. (Knowing this, the “Rojas” (Reds) stored ammunition in churches, blowing them up when they couldn’t get it out). Only in special cases were military targets in cities permitted to be attacked.

    Nine aircraft dropped a total of 7950 kg of bombs, but no hits at the bridge were observed because visibility was very poor. The reason for the poor visibility was fire and smoke from the blasting and setting on fire by the Reds, and possibly the international brigades, ahead of the air attack. The relatively primitive targeting devices used at that time were also responsible for non-military objects being hit.
     

    Endnotes:
    “Guernica im Lichte neuerer Untersuchungen” (Guernica in Light of Latest Research), by Alfred Maurice de Zayas, Wehrforschung (WF), June 1974. De Zayas is a distinguished author, researcher and expert on international human rights.
     

    Even the so-called conservatives now manage not to know that the Spanish Republicans/Reds slaughtered a large number of priests and monks, raped many nuns, blew up multiple churches, all that on top of – perhaps a type of dessert for – the meat and potatoes work of bludgeoning backward civilians who refused to bow to the progress of atheist revolution.

    By the way – when the British Empire managed to strike trade deals with the Spanish Empire, it planted Masonic lodges not merely in New Spain but in Spain as well. As in Mexico, the British founded Masonic lodges were indispensable to all subsequent revolts in the country.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Ah! Finally. A commenter who noticed the "Hitler was almost always outfoxed by the clever machinations of the masonic treachery at the heart of Britain’s ruling class.."

    Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry? Jew bashing allowed, but not any analysis of such an elite way of networking. No mention on RoundTable-Fabianism-CFR-Bildeberg. It is current and global, but not mentioned in polite company.

    By the way, Masonic lodges all the way to South America, with Bolivar and San Martin being Freemasons. From Wiki:
    "San Martín resigned from the Spanish army, for controversial reasons, and moved to South America, where he joined the Spanish American wars of independence. Historians propose several explanations for this action: the common ones are that he missed his native country, that he was a British agent and the congruence of the goals of both wars. The first explanation suggests that when the wars of independence began San Martín thought that his duty was to return to his country and serve in the military conflict. The second explanation suggests that Britain, which would benefit from the independence of the South American countries, sent San Martín to achieve it. The third suggests that both wars were caused by the conflicts between Enlightenment ideas and absolutism, so San Martín still waged the same war; the wars in the Americas only developed separatist goals after the Spanish Absolutist Restoration.[10]

    San Martín was initiated in the Lodge of Rational Knights in 1811. They met at the house of Carlos María de Alvear, other members were José Miguel Carrera, Aldao, Blanco Encalada and other criollos, American-born Spaniards. They agreed to return to their home countries and join the local revolutionary movements. San Martín asked for his retirement from the military, and moved to Britain. He stayed in the country for a short time, and met many other South Americans at a lodge held at the house of Venezuelan general Francisco de Miranda at 27 Grafton Street (now 58 Grafton Way),[11] Bloomsbury, London (the house now has a blue plaque with Miranda's name)."

    A young, unknown San Martin also traveled to the U.S. and somehow got around to meeting with George Washington. Such a lucky break. And he later obediently accepted Bolivar's dismissal, and went into freemasonic exile.

    But hey, that happened long ago.

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  46. Johann says:
    @Jake
    "A thousand years of national and religious wars in Europe had not managed to wreak the destruction which Mr. Churchill and U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt directed against the cultural treasure houses of western civilization, in cities like Dresden. They tossed a match into Dresden as casually as a drooling meth addict would torch an apartment building for revenge on the landlord who had evicted him."

    The first sentence is true, if the subject is restricted to physical destruction of cities. But the religious and cultural destruction was necessary to getting us the French and Bolshevik Revolutions and the 2 World Wars.

    The second sentence is a masterpiece of imagery.

    The Americans did their part of religious/cultural devastation when they bombed the fifteen hundred year old monastery of Saint Benedict at Monte Cassino. The Americans justified their act of barbarism and incineration by claiming that the monastery was being used by German artillery spotters; they never provided any proof that this was true.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jake
    I agree.
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  47. @apollonian
    Liar Who Lies Backs-Up Hereticalist, Hypocrite

    What's this, "alan"?--u "can't fathom"?--well, we're not surprised as u're not too bright are u? And what?--u can't "engage" Pelagianism?--pretending to child's "good-evil"?--and u can't go to Wikipedia or use the search engine?--but who's fault is that?

    Evidently, u're soooo brainlessly incompetent as to beggar belief, eh?--and we see u're just another liar, advocating the same sort of censorship that Hoffman practices at same time he hypocritically complains about it so often as he does in his putrid passive-aggressive, pathetic, and self-pitying manner.

    But those are just my opinions, "alan," buddy, and I back them up w. substantial pts., info, and facts which u pretend are "vitriolic," liar as u are, though u're entitled to ur opinions too, eh? So people can read ur lies and my facts and see how it all reflects on ur hero, Hoffman.

    You have a serious problem with spelling and usage. The proper terms are “Pelagian,” and “Heretic.” Both are irrelevant to the article and leads me to wonder if you even understand the terms in the first place.

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  48. @German_reader
    I don't have time right now for a detailed comment, but the "100 000 dead" figure imo isn't credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough, I'd definitely regard the bombings done by the RAF in late 1944/early 1945 as war crimes at least in a moral, if not legal sense). People interested in the subject should look at Richard Overy's recent "The bombing war", he gives convincing reasons why casualty figures for WW2 bombing in Europe tend to be inflated more generally (this also applies to German bombing btw, claims that the Luftwaffe killed 500 000 Soviet citizens are exaggerations by a factor of ten or so).

    I don’t have time right now for a detailed comment, but the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough,

    You obviously are in a much better position than I am to evaluate the conflicting evidence. What I find interesting, and not often referred to (as far as I am aware), are the population statistics. The ones cited by Wikipedia (which seem to be from official sources), show the following:

    31. Dezember 1938 – 634.400
    17. Mai 1939 – 629.713
    31. Dezember 1940 – 626.900
    31. Dezember 1944 – 566.738
    30. April 1945 – 368.519
    31. Mai 1945 – 397.676
    1. Dezember 1945 – 454.249
    29. Oktober 1946 – 467.966
    31. August 1950 – 494.187

    Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einwohnerentwicklung_von_Dresden#cite_note-2

    Obviously many people must have left the city because their homes had been destroyed, but it does suggest the scale of the damage.

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    • Replies: @utu
    In 1945 Dresden was full of refugees from the East so it was believed that its population during the bombings was much higher and thus the difference between permanent population numbers will underestimate the number of dead.

    Nazis throughout the whole war were underestimating the numbers of dead due to bombings. Germans were not told how bad things were for morale and propaganda reasons. But internally they kept the numbers that were not to be used officially.
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  49. @roof10
    I saw no mention of the firebombing of Coventry by the Germans in 1940. Perhaps an oversight.

    Some also might be under the impression that Warsaw (which the Germans destroyed) and Paris (which Hitler wanted to destroy) were among the “cultural treasure houses of western civilization,” but I guess only German cities count.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    Warsaw was "destroyed"? Not.

    Parts of it were attacked, being a legit military target.
    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.

    Paris? " which Hitler wanted to destroy" Proof?

    I'm sure you'll say next: 'Hitler wanted to destroy Mexico City' too.

    You have been indoctrinated, laughably so.

    www.codoh.com
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  50. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Churchill and his top military circle were not Judaic, yet they set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

    War brings out the UGLY in every group. But, the Brits didn't want to kill so many Germans as part of some grand strategy. Instead, the war got really ugly, and it brought out the vengeful and sadistic side of human nature. In other words, had there been no war between UK and Germany, the Brits never would have wanted to kill all those Germans. Once a fight breaks out, a kind of rage takes over. People lose all sense of proportions and want to do maximum damage. This is why boxing has referees. Without them, it can easily lead to murder in the ring.

    Unlike Brits who just lost their heads in the bloody melee, German policy in the East wasn't a case of violent overreaction. There was a radical plan of genocide and slavery on an unprecedented scale. Not only did the Germans attack first and not only were they willing to do ANYTHING to defeat the USSR, but the planned 'peace' would have meant whole extermination of tens of millions of Russians and enslavement of the rest.

    So, while I agree that the Dresden bombing was a war crime and shouldn't have been committed, I still see it as an evil act among many evil acts in a war that brought out the worst on all sides. It was the fury of war that made the Brits act devilish.
    In contrast, Hitler had a devilish plan even in peacetime prior to the war and would have acted devilishly further had he won in Russia. His 'peace' plan for Russia would have been 1000x more frightening that what UK did to Germany and even what Soviets did to Germany, which was abominable.

    It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it's time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler's actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.

    Also, Hoffman's mention of German as racial 'cousins' gives the game away. The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan's UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans. The truly big failure was not Anglos failing to recognize Germans as their cousins but Germans having failed to recognize Slavs as racial cousins too.

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology. His way was death or enslavement of all Russian Slavs as a bunch of helots.

    I don’t know we can say –after all these years of propaganda– who really wanted to exterminate or had worse plans for whom. We can only judge the things that did happen. Also, it is a mistake to confuse ‘government’ with ‘people’. Not all regions of Germany voted for Hitler, for example. And leaders like Churchill should be held to a higher standard than John Bull. If the Soviet Army had directives to rape, that’s different than battle rage. Same with German summary execution of Jews on the Eastern front. And so on. But in this you are spot on:

    ” It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it’s time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.”

    The tendency to only see evil outside ourselves leads to disaster. Even for convincing others, a balanced view that acknowledges our side’s mistakes is more effective.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    said in trying to appease the violent Zionists:
    "but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.” "

    Strawmen galore. Revisionist do nothing of the sort.
    Please present your proof for your "brutality carried out by Germans".
    As for "Hitler's actions", please tell us what those were, present proof.

    The fact of the matter is that the '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossble.
    You nor anyone else can change that fact. Real history requires real proof, which you do not have. Simple as that. Cheers.
    See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com
    Only liars demand censorship.

    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/HH-July2017-30secs+DonationPitch.mp4
    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau
    https://youtu.be/SUc6Y_E5zb0

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  51. @Marcus
    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

    Cool. The same applies to “native” Indians in the Americas, right?

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    Yes, of course. They lost to a superior civilization.
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  52. @apollonian
    Liar Who Lies Backs-Up Hereticalist, Hypocrite

    What's this, "alan"?--u "can't fathom"?--well, we're not surprised as u're not too bright are u? And what?--u can't "engage" Pelagianism?--pretending to child's "good-evil"?--and u can't go to Wikipedia or use the search engine?--but who's fault is that?

    Evidently, u're soooo brainlessly incompetent as to beggar belief, eh?--and we see u're just another liar, advocating the same sort of censorship that Hoffman practices at same time he hypocritically complains about it so often as he does in his putrid passive-aggressive, pathetic, and self-pitying manner.

    But those are just my opinions, "alan," buddy, and I back them up w. substantial pts., info, and facts which u pretend are "vitriolic," liar as u are, though u're entitled to ur opinions too, eh? So people can read ur lies and my facts and see how it all reflects on ur hero, Hoffman.

    Attacking a man through his family as Applolian tried to do to Hoffman is reptilian.

    Read More
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  53. @for-the-record
    The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people

    There obviously has been a concerted effort over recent decades (in Germany as well) to reduce the death toll to more "manageable"levels, for example:

    Dresden bombing death toll lower than thought

    . . . But a special commission, comprising 13 prominent German historians, has now revealed that the previous figures were exaggerated or derived from dubious sources.

    Instead, they concluded that no more than 25,000 people died during the attacks, debunking the claims of many revisionist historians who wished to compare the bombing to the Holocaust.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/onthefrontline/3123512/Dresden-bombing-death-toll-lower-than-thought.html
     
    Are you aware of any credible counter-studies that support higher figures?

    I don’t know of any recent studies, but the 100k deaths are reasonable given what was happening at the time. Dresden had become something of a choke point for refugees and military who were withdrawing in the face of the Soviet advance. The authorities at the time are the source of the casualty figure and civic authorities in Germany were not given to inflating such things.

    The Dresden missions resulted in by far the largest firestorm of the war. The earlier firestorm in Hamburg was accidental. Bomber Command and 8th Air Force figured out how to create the storms with intent. Under the circumstances, 100k+ deaths is quite reasonable.

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  54. @Anonymous
    If you don't want to be burned to ashes, don't fuck with the Jews.

    Jews continue to marry nonJews at a high rate in the USA, which has the most Jews after Israel itself.

    As for Europe, like Christians and secularists, Jews will flee as Muslims take over.

    As for Israel itself, Arab Muslims and ultraOrthodox Jews continue to have higher fertility rates than other Jews. NonOrthdox Jews may find themselves a smaller and smaller minority, and Jews themselves eventually may be a minority in that country. The process will be stopped for a while, and slowed thereafter, if many Jews from Europe seek refuge in Israel, but the process will resume again,

    Jews managed to destroy other peoples — and encourage other peoples to pervert, debase, and destroy themselves and each other — but they haven’t managed to save themselves either in the longer term.

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  55. The author is right on one thing at least: Dresden was a war crime.
    As were all the other terror bombings carried out in WWII. No one, none of any of the major participants did not, at any time, not resort to committing war crimes on an industrial level.
    War crimes committed on the highest military authority.
    There is plenty blame to go around, the victors were blameless, as are all victors.

    Yet another reason for rejecting war as an option. As a citizen of Europe, I hope we grow up soon.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    You will fight a war on your own land against Muslims, or perish or be subjugated by them. I hope that it occurs soon enough that the numbers still favor Europeans.
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  56. escobar says:

    “Warum genuegen 25,000 Tote von Dresden nicht?” in Die Welt. February 7, 2015

    Read it…and other work by German historians, before accepting the 100,000 fantasy. As the article suggests, aren’t 25,000 dead enough?

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  57. utu says:
    @German_reader
    I don't have time right now for a detailed comment, but the "100 000 dead" figure imo isn't credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough, I'd definitely regard the bombings done by the RAF in late 1944/early 1945 as war crimes at least in a moral, if not legal sense). People interested in the subject should look at Richard Overy's recent "The bombing war", he gives convincing reasons why casualty figures for WW2 bombing in Europe tend to be inflated more generally (this also applies to German bombing btw, claims that the Luftwaffe killed 500 000 Soviet citizens are exaggerations by a factor of ten or so).

    the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible

    Because it was more than 100,000. German cuckhood of which German_reader is an exemplar reached zenith after the reunification. They agreed to link Dresden to British Coventry narrative and drastically lowered the number of dead. During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly. The bombing raids were officially called terrorist. And now in the unified crucified Germany we learn it was justified because of Coventry. How many people died in Coventry?

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    How many people died in Coventry?

    568 is the official figure, I believe.
    , @German_reader

    During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly.
     
    Sure, but you couldn't speak openly about the issue of rapes by Red Army soldiers in 44/45 and plenty of other issues...the bombing of Dresden was just useful for bashing Western "imperialists", "warmongers" etc. Just Cold war politics.
    And I didn't even mention Coventry...it's true that the escalation in the bombing war was mostly due to deliberate decisions taken by the British, and the bombing of Coventry (aimed at its armaments industry) wasn't comparable to their intentional destruction of entire city centres in Germany. If you read the book by Overy I mentioned in my earlier post, you'd actually see that argument made by mainstream historians. That's unconnected to the issue of how many died in Dresden.
    , @Wally
    Excellent, fact based discussion here, propaganda shattered:

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain?
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    www.codoh.com
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  58. fnn says:
    @Anon
    Churchill and his top military circle were not Judaic, yet they set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

    War brings out the UGLY in every group. But, the Brits didn't want to kill so many Germans as part of some grand strategy. Instead, the war got really ugly, and it brought out the vengeful and sadistic side of human nature. In other words, had there been no war between UK and Germany, the Brits never would have wanted to kill all those Germans. Once a fight breaks out, a kind of rage takes over. People lose all sense of proportions and want to do maximum damage. This is why boxing has referees. Without them, it can easily lead to murder in the ring.

    Unlike Brits who just lost their heads in the bloody melee, German policy in the East wasn't a case of violent overreaction. There was a radical plan of genocide and slavery on an unprecedented scale. Not only did the Germans attack first and not only were they willing to do ANYTHING to defeat the USSR, but the planned 'peace' would have meant whole extermination of tens of millions of Russians and enslavement of the rest.

    So, while I agree that the Dresden bombing was a war crime and shouldn't have been committed, I still see it as an evil act among many evil acts in a war that brought out the worst on all sides. It was the fury of war that made the Brits act devilish.
    In contrast, Hitler had a devilish plan even in peacetime prior to the war and would have acted devilishly further had he won in Russia. His 'peace' plan for Russia would have been 1000x more frightening that what UK did to Germany and even what Soviets did to Germany, which was abominable.

    It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it's time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler's actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.

    Also, Hoffman's mention of German as racial 'cousins' gives the game away. The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan's UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans. The truly big failure was not Anglos failing to recognize Germans as their cousins but Germans having failed to recognize Slavs as racial cousins too.

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology. His way was death or enslavement of all Russian Slavs as a bunch of helots.

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.

    Hitler invaded USSR because Britain refused peace terms and it was clear that FDR was gearing up to enter the war. Germany needed the resources of the Soviets to have any chance to defeat the American economic collosus in combination with the British Empire. Respected Establishment historians Adam Tooze and John Lukacs both say the invasion was entirely rational and necessary. But Hitker bungled it by not taking Moscow.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans.

    The Slovaks were NS Germany’s first allies. The Czechs under the occupation were given the same benefits as German workers- with the bonus of not being subject to conscription. The lack of discontent prompted the British to send in a Czech emigre team to assassinate Heydrich in order to stir things up. Hitler of course took the bait.

    Hitler also got along well with the Poles when Pilsudski was in charge. Here’s Wikipedia on Pilsudski:

    After Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in January 1933, Piłsudski is rumored to have proposed to France a preventive war against Germany. It has been argued that Piłsudski may have been sounding out France regarding possible joint military action against Germany.Lack of French interest may have been a reason for Poland signing the Non-Aggression Pact of January 1934. Little evidence has, however, been found in French or Polish diplomatic archives that such a proposal for preventive war was ever actually advanced.Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the Soviet Union, but Piłsudski declined, instead seeking precious time to prepare for potential war with either Germany or the Soviet Union. Just before his death, Piłsudski told Józef Beck that it must be Poland’s policy to maintain neutral relations with Germany, keep up the Polish alliance with France and improve relations with the United Kingdom.

    But there is a rather complicated history between Germans and Slavs:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    With the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, millions of ethnic Germans became vulnerable minorities in other countries. Hundreds of thousands were either forcibly expelled to Germany or their situation was so desperate they emigrated to the Reich. Almost 10 percent of the ethnic German population of Czechoslovakia emigrated to Germany before 1938.

    I can attest that, to this day, French young people are not taught in school about the ethnic cleansing their forefathers committed against defeated Germany:

    In the wake of the First World War, the French had purged the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine, classified their population according to “blood origins” and driven out more than 90,000 people in barely a year: the German population of the Moselle department dropped from 164,502 in 1910 to under 45,000 in 1921. (199)

    A total of some 200,000 ethnic Germans were expelled from reannexed Alsace-Lorraine.

    The situation was similarly bad in Poland:

    In Poland itself, the Germans were seen as second-class citizens and traitors [. . .] “Polish land for the Poles” was a common watchword, and [Prime Minister Władysław] Sikorski spoke in 1923 of ‘de-Germanizing’ the western provinces. (36-37).

    Some 575,000 Germans would leave their ancestral lands in Poland to rejoin Germany between 1918 and 1926 alone, including half of the ethnic German populations of ceded Poznania and West Prussia. Mazower stresses that German expulsion and persecution of Poles was in some respects meant as both retaliation for and reversal of Polish policies:

    Everyone knew how, after 1918, their [ethnic Germans’] land had been confiscated or surrounded with subsidized clusters of new settlements. Hostile officials had discouraged them from speaking German or declaring themselves as Germans in censuses and even the landscape itself had been de-Germanized through changes to the names of families, streets and entire towns. In many areas Germans had been deliberately expelled; in others they had sold up and left, or bowed to the pressure to change their nationality. The Nazi regime saw reversing the effect of these decades as a priority. “Make this land German for me again!” Hitler had ordered an official after the conquest of northern Yugoslavia in 1941. His message to those he appointed to the Reich’s other borderlands was basically the same.

    On “anti-Slavism” as ideology:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    Allied propaganda and conventional narratives emphasize that the Third Reich’s racial ideology saw Slavs as “subhumans,” a term in fact more often used in a dysgenic rather than ethnic sense. Mazower makes clear however the paradoxical fact that German racial science at the time was actually a moderating influence on Slavophobia, because Slavs were considered a linguistic rather than a racial group:

    Prewar Germany funded racial science well – as it did the sciences in general – and the Third Reich was a particularly generous sponsor. [. . .] The discipline of racial science itself was in turmoil, and many German scholars had already become aware of the difficulties. [. . .] [K]nowing how to distinguish a German from a non-German – the key concern for those running the new empire – was not something upon which it was possible to get expert consensus. (182)

    Hitler apparently agreed:

    Hitler himself thought Himmler’s race mysticism was impractical and, while hostile to Serbs and Russians in general, he felt differently about other groups of Slavs. He praised the Czechs as “industrious and intelligent workers” and speculated that blue-eyed Ukrainians might be “peasant descendants of German tribes who never migrated.” In fact, he came round to the view – common among German anthropologists – that there was, racial speaking, no such category as “Slavs”; it was a linguistic term, nothing more.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    The facts discussed here, propaganda shattered:

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    www.codoh.com
    , @Wally
    much more here, see:
    Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

    "Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to."
    - Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)
     

    .”under Polish pressure the Germans in the southern and eastern districts were subjected to oppressive treatment. On Aug. 19 1920 the Poles felt strong enough, indeed, to make an attempt to seize the country by force. On all sides bands of Poles, chiefly recruited from Congress Poland, usurped authority. A number of Germans were forcibly carried across the frontier into Poland, and many were killed. Several weeks elapsed before it was possible to quell this rising and restore order…It had been suggested by the Entente that non-resident Upper Silesians of the German Reich should vote outside Silesia, at Cologne. Germany protested against this, and her protest was recognized as valid by the Entente. In January 1921 the date of the plebiscite was fixed for March 20 1921.
    An immediate revival took place in the use of terrorism by the Poles, especially in the districts of Rybnik, Pless, Kattowitz, and Beuthen. It reached its climax in the days preceding the plebiscite. Voters from other parts of the German Reich were frequently refused admission to the polls; sometimes they were maltreated and even in some instances murdered; and houses where outvoters were staying were set on fire… The day after the plebiscite the Polish excesses recommenced, and from that date onwards continued without interruption… Practically all the towns voted for Germany… the first days of May witnessed a new Polish insurrection which assumed far greater proportions than the former one. Korfanty had secretly raised a well-organized Polish force which was provided with arms and munition from across the border, and was reinforced by large bodies of men from Poland…
    By June 20 the British troops had again occupied the larger towns, while the Poles had the upper hand in the rural districts. As a result of the difficulties in paying his men and providing them with food Korfanty now lost control over his followers. Independent bands were formed which plundered the villages, ill-treated the Germans, and murdered many of them.”

    - 1922 Encyclopaedia Britannica, “SILESIA, UPPER”
     
    This article appeared in the Polish newspaper Die Liga der Grossmacht in October, 1930:

    A struggle between Poland and Germany is inevitable. We must prepare ourselves for it systematically. Our goal is a new Battle of Tannenberg. However, this time, a Tannenberg in the suburbs of Berlin. Prussia must be reconquered for Poland, and Prussia, indeed, as far as the River Spree. In a war with Germany there will be no prisoners…
     
    “Tannenberg” refers to the Battle of Tannenberg in 1410 when a Polish army defeated the German Teutonic Knights. The article is full of many more anti-German remarks.

    Also, Von Ribbentrop defended the attack of Poland by stating that between 1919-1939, one million Germans had been expelled from Polish territory accompanied by numerous atrocities, and that complaints to the World Court in The Hague and the League of Nations in Geneva had been ignored.

    further reading:
    the book: "Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939 nach amtlichen Quellen" (Documentations of Polish Cruelties. Crimes Against Germans 1919-1939 According to Official Sources).

    www.codoh.com
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  59. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake
    Even the so-called conservatives now manage not to know that the Spanish Republicans/Reds slaughtered a large number of priests and monks, raped many nuns, blew up multiple churches, all that on top of - perhaps a type of dessert for - the meat and potatoes work of bludgeoning backward civilians who refused to bow to the progress of atheist revolution.

    By the way - when the British Empire managed to strike trade deals with the Spanish Empire, it planted Masonic lodges not merely in New Spain but in Spain as well. As in Mexico, the British founded Masonic lodges were indispensable to all subsequent revolts in the country.

    Ah! Finally. A commenter who noticed the “Hitler was almost always outfoxed by the clever machinations of the masonic treachery at the heart of Britain’s ruling class..”

    Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry? Jew bashing allowed, but not any analysis of such an elite way of networking. No mention on RoundTable-Fabianism-CFR-Bildeberg. It is current and global, but not mentioned in polite company.

    By the way, Masonic lodges all the way to South America, with Bolivar and San Martin being Freemasons. From Wiki:
    “San Martín resigned from the Spanish army, for controversial reasons, and moved to South America, where he joined the Spanish American wars of independence. Historians propose several explanations for this action: the common ones are that he missed his native country, that he was a British agent and the congruence of the goals of both wars. The first explanation suggests that when the wars of independence began San Martín thought that his duty was to return to his country and serve in the military conflict. The second explanation suggests that Britain, which would benefit from the independence of the South American countries, sent San Martín to achieve it. The third suggests that both wars were caused by the conflicts between Enlightenment ideas and absolutism, so San Martín still waged the same war; the wars in the Americas only developed separatist goals after the Spanish Absolutist Restoration.[10]

    San Martín was initiated in the Lodge of Rational Knights in 1811. They met at the house of Carlos María de Alvear, other members were José Miguel Carrera, Aldao, Blanco Encalada and other criollos, American-born Spaniards. They agreed to return to their home countries and join the local revolutionary movements. San Martín asked for his retirement from the military, and moved to Britain. He stayed in the country for a short time, and met many other South Americans at a lodge held at the house of Venezuelan general Francisco de Miranda at 27 Grafton Street (now 58 Grafton Way),[11] Bloomsbury, London (the house now has a blue plaque with Miranda’s name).”

    A young, unknown San Martin also traveled to the U.S. and somehow got around to meeting with George Washington. Such a lucky break. And he later obediently accepted Bolivar’s dismissal, and went into freemasonic exile.

    But hey, that happened long ago.

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    • Replies: @Jake
    "Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry?"

    I think that is so because such discussion always means we must talk about WASP culture as not only not conservative in any sense worth having, but that has a very long history, an indispensable history, in promoting leftist revolutions across the globe./

    The WASP Elites have been amoral, power and money-worshipping monsters of anti-Christendom revolution since before Oliver Cromwell officially allied them with Jews.
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  60. utu says:
    @for-the-record
    I don’t have time right now for a detailed comment, but the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough,

    You obviously are in a much better position than I am to evaluate the conflicting evidence. What I find interesting, and not often referred to (as far as I am aware), are the population statistics. The ones cited by Wikipedia (which seem to be from official sources), show the following:

    31. Dezember 1938 -- 634.400
    17. Mai 1939 -- 629.713
    31. Dezember 1940 -- 626.900
    31. Dezember 1944 -- 566.738
    30. April 1945 -- 368.519
    31. Mai 1945 -- 397.676
    1. Dezember 1945 -- 454.249
    29. Oktober 1946 -- 467.966
    31. August 1950 -- 494.187

    Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einwohnerentwicklung_von_Dresden#cite_note-2

    Obviously many people must have left the city because their homes had been destroyed, but it does suggest the scale of the damage.

    In 1945 Dresden was full of refugees from the East so it was believed that its population during the bombings was much higher and thus the difference between permanent population numbers will underestimate the number of dead.

    Nazis throughout the whole war were underestimating the numbers of dead due to bombings. Germans were not told how bad things were for morale and propaganda reasons. But internally they kept the numbers that were not to be used officially.

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  61. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    All the Generals that surround Trump and run the Presidency for him were staunch advocates of the Iraq war and all the other U.S. interventions in the last two decades. Foreign quagmires are what the US does best.

    So Trump listens to Kelly and the other neocon old generals and sent more troops to Afghanistan. Dresden was just the warm up. Americans are still being lied to about Vietnam after they forgot about Fallujah.

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    • Agree: Che Guava
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  62. Che Guava says:

    Good article, Mr. Hoffman, and most of the attempted refutations very weak.

    The deceased great American author Kurt Vonnegut was in Dresden at the time, as a well-treated P.O.W., his account of Dresden firebombing in parts of his novel Slaughterhouse 5, and aftermath for him and others, he was stating were true experiences.

    I would expect that the topics of Mother Night were dictated to him by his publishers as a kind of forced self-abnegation.

    Not that it is a bad novel, just far more fictional than the wartime scenes in Slaughterhouse 5, and the probability that he was forced to write it as a mea culpa for the former by his publishers (New York Jews) is very high.

    I even like the movie of Mother Night a little, mainly because it is featuring Laura Palmer and Spiderman’s girlfriend in Spiderman’s previous incarntion, otherwise, occasional good camera shots. In general, crap.

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  63. Wally says:
    @fnn
    "Guernica"

    A reasonable-sounding revisionist account of the Guernica bombing by a respected scholar:
    https://carolynyeager.net/guernica-politics-propaganda

    From an article based on interviews of participants and surviving documents of the Luftwaffe—specifically an unpublished history of the Legion Condor from the year1 940—by Alfred de Zayas 1, published in the Journal of the Bundeswehr in 1974, we learn the following:

    Guernica was on the front line and not an open city. It was heavily defended by six battalions of Basques and Santanders. An armament factory was inside the city and other Red Army facilities were in the immediate vicinity.

    An air attack at the bridge and road crossing east of Guernica was ordered. All Condor orders were strict that cities must be spared, and especially churches. (Knowing this, the “Rojas” (Reds) stored ammunition in churches, blowing them up when they couldn’t get it out). Only in special cases were military targets in cities permitted to be attacked.

    Nine aircraft dropped a total of 7950 kg of bombs, but no hits at the bridge were observed because visibility was very poor. The reason for the poor visibility was fire and smoke from the blasting and setting on fire by the Reds, and possibly the international brigades, ahead of the air attack. The relatively primitive targeting devices used at that time were also responsible for non-military objects being hit.
     

    Endnotes:
    “Guernica im Lichte neuerer Untersuchungen” (Guernica in Light of Latest Research), by Alfred Maurice de Zayas, Wehrforschung (WF), June 1974. De Zayas is a distinguished author, researcher and expert on international human rights.
     

    BTW:
    The famous Picasso painting, Guernica, was actually started BEFORE the event.

    http://www.codoh.com

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  64. Jake says:
    @Johann
    The Americans did their part of religious/cultural devastation when they bombed the fifteen hundred year old monastery of Saint Benedict at Monte Cassino. The Americans justified their act of barbarism and incineration by claiming that the monastery was being used by German artillery spotters; they never provided any proof that this was true.

    I agree.

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  65. @utu

    the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible
     
    Because it was more than 100,000. German cuckhood of which German_reader is an exemplar reached zenith after the reunification. They agreed to link Dresden to British Coventry narrative and drastically lowered the number of dead. During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly. The bombing raids were officially called terrorist. And now in the unified crucified Germany we learn it was justified because of Coventry. How many people died in Coventry?

    How many people died in Coventry?

    568 is the official figure, I believe.

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  66. Jake says:
    @Anon
    Ah! Finally. A commenter who noticed the "Hitler was almost always outfoxed by the clever machinations of the masonic treachery at the heart of Britain’s ruling class.."

    Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry? Jew bashing allowed, but not any analysis of such an elite way of networking. No mention on RoundTable-Fabianism-CFR-Bildeberg. It is current and global, but not mentioned in polite company.

    By the way, Masonic lodges all the way to South America, with Bolivar and San Martin being Freemasons. From Wiki:
    "San Martín resigned from the Spanish army, for controversial reasons, and moved to South America, where he joined the Spanish American wars of independence. Historians propose several explanations for this action: the common ones are that he missed his native country, that he was a British agent and the congruence of the goals of both wars. The first explanation suggests that when the wars of independence began San Martín thought that his duty was to return to his country and serve in the military conflict. The second explanation suggests that Britain, which would benefit from the independence of the South American countries, sent San Martín to achieve it. The third suggests that both wars were caused by the conflicts between Enlightenment ideas and absolutism, so San Martín still waged the same war; the wars in the Americas only developed separatist goals after the Spanish Absolutist Restoration.[10]

    San Martín was initiated in the Lodge of Rational Knights in 1811. They met at the house of Carlos María de Alvear, other members were José Miguel Carrera, Aldao, Blanco Encalada and other criollos, American-born Spaniards. They agreed to return to their home countries and join the local revolutionary movements. San Martín asked for his retirement from the military, and moved to Britain. He stayed in the country for a short time, and met many other South Americans at a lodge held at the house of Venezuelan general Francisco de Miranda at 27 Grafton Street (now 58 Grafton Way),[11] Bloomsbury, London (the house now has a blue plaque with Miranda's name)."

    A young, unknown San Martin also traveled to the U.S. and somehow got around to meeting with George Washington. Such a lucky break. And he later obediently accepted Bolivar's dismissal, and went into freemasonic exile.

    But hey, that happened long ago.

    “Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry?”

    I think that is so because such discussion always means we must talk about WASP culture as not only not conservative in any sense worth having, but that has a very long history, an indispensable history, in promoting leftist revolutions across the globe./

    The WASP Elites have been amoral, power and money-worshipping monsters of anti-Christendom revolution since before Oliver Cromwell officially allied them with Jews.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    @ an indispensable history,... leftist revolutions.

    What authors/sites do you favor?
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  67. Wally says:
    @Marcus
    A lazy Neo-Nazi would of course be unaware of the Nero Decree, and Hitler's reasoning for it. Hitler had 100x the honesty of his whiny modern followers, destruction of Germany was consistent with his belief might makes right,

    It is better to destroy these things ourselves ... the people have proven themselves the weaker, and the future belongs to the stronger population in the east.
     

    “Neo-Nazi” …. yawn.

    The typical childish response from a dumb Zionist.

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    Again, where’s your proof for you assertion?

    You just typed some text and put a blockquote around, as if it were actually Hitler.

    See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Lmao once again, the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did, had infinitely more integrity than their brain dead modern wannabes. As for the Nero Decree, you can find it in any number of works on the war's last few months, e.g. Toland's "The Last 100 Days," but I'm sure you'll keep covering your ears anyway
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  68. As at WACO …..a BURNT OFFERING for the Jewish serpents

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  69. Wally says:
    @James Kabala
    Some also might be under the impression that Warsaw (which the Germans destroyed) and Paris (which Hitler wanted to destroy) were among the "cultural treasure houses of western civilization," but I guess only German cities count.

    Warsaw was “destroyed”? Not.

    Parts of it were attacked, being a legit military target.
    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.

    Paris? ” which Hitler wanted to destroy” Proof?

    I’m sure you’ll say next: ‘Hitler wanted to destroy Mexico City’ too.

    You have been indoctrinated, laughably so.

    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @EugeneGur

    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.
     
    Could you enlightened us as to which "international law" even at those damned times authorized ghettos?

    Paris? ” which Hitler wanted to destroy” Proof?
     
    I don't know what Hitler wanted and I could't care less. I know what he did - he destroyed Kiev, Kerch, Sevastopol, Stalingrad, to name just a few. He blew out magnificent suburbs of St. Petersburg: Peterhof, Pavlovsk, Tzarskoye Selo, Gatchina - everything he could lay his dirty hands on. He destroyed pre-Mongol 11-12 century churches in Great Novgorod, and this is just a small part.

    I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time.

    , @James Kabala
    It is a mistake for me to even argue with you, so after this comment I will not bother, and indeed I will not even check back in to see if you replied, but if you really claim to be knowledgeable about World War II, surely you should be aware that the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising (a separate event from the earlier ghetto uprising). Also, while I am sure you would claim it is a myth, the story of Hitler's (fortunately defied) order to destroy Paris is well-known.
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  70. @utu

    the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible
     
    Because it was more than 100,000. German cuckhood of which German_reader is an exemplar reached zenith after the reunification. They agreed to link Dresden to British Coventry narrative and drastically lowered the number of dead. During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly. The bombing raids were officially called terrorist. And now in the unified crucified Germany we learn it was justified because of Coventry. How many people died in Coventry?

    During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly.

    Sure, but you couldn’t speak openly about the issue of rapes by Red Army soldiers in 44/45 and plenty of other issues…the bombing of Dresden was just useful for bashing Western “imperialists”, “warmongers” etc. Just Cold war politics.
    And I didn’t even mention Coventry…it’s true that the escalation in the bombing war was mostly due to deliberate decisions taken by the British, and the bombing of Coventry (aimed at its armaments industry) wasn’t comparable to their intentional destruction of entire city centres in Germany. If you read the book by Overy I mentioned in my earlier post, you’d actually see that argument made by mainstream historians. That’s unconnected to the issue of how many died in Dresden.

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  71. Marcus says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Cool. The same applies to “native” Indians in the Americas, right?

    Yes, of course. They lost to a superior civilization.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    Your statement is obviously the work of a profoundly disturbed mind. Seek help before you snap and kill us all.
    , @Kolo
    Moron Alert!
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  72. Wally says:
    @Anon
    I don't know we can say --after all these years of propaganda-- who really wanted to exterminate or had worse plans for whom. We can only judge the things that did happen. Also, it is a mistake to confuse 'government' with 'people'. Not all regions of Germany voted for Hitler, for example. And leaders like Churchill should be held to a higher standard than John Bull. If the Soviet Army had directives to rape, that's different than battle rage. Same with German summary execution of Jews on the Eastern front. And so on. But in this you are spot on:

    " It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it’s time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood."

    The tendency to only see evil outside ourselves leads to disaster. Even for convincing others, a balanced view that acknowledges our side's mistakes is more effective.

    said in trying to appease the violent Zionists:
    “but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.” ”

    Strawmen galore. Revisionist do nothing of the sort.
    Please present your proof for your “brutality carried out by Germans”.
    As for “Hitler’s actions”, please tell us what those were, present proof.

    The fact of the matter is that the ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossble.
    You nor anyone else can change that fact. Real history requires real proof, which you do not have. Simple as that. Cheers.
    See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com
    Only liars demand censorship.

    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau

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    • Replies: @Anon
    The Holocaust, believe it or not, is not a major concern of mine. You and the Jews do not understand that the Holocaust, like oil reserves, is a finite resource. They are already running out of Holocaust fuel for the grievance industry.

    However, a fair understanding of history is of interest to me. The actual political battles being fought now, even more.

    By the way, in your book, was there anything wrong at all with Nazi ideology? What about policies? Concrete acts? No criticism is fair?

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  73. Marcus says:
    @Wally
    "Neo-Nazi" .... yawn.

    The typical childish response from a dumb Zionist.

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    Again, where's your proof for you assertion?

    You just typed some text and put a blockquote around, as if it were actually Hitler.

    See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    Lmao once again, the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did, had infinitely more integrity than their brain dead modern wannabes. As for the Nero Decree, you can find it in any number of works on the war’s last few months, e.g. Toland’s “The Last 100 Days,” but I’m sure you’ll keep covering your ears anyway

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    • Replies: @Wally
    said:
    "the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did"

    As usual, you are utterly wrong, childishly so. What's alleged is scientifically impossible.
    Indeed torture will get some of the desired results, see below, however, here is a massive list of 'Nazis who most definitely rejected the impossible propaganda:

    quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust' / WRONG
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8165
    and:

    All but two of the Germans [on trial at Nuremberg], in the 139 cases that we investigated, had their testicles kicked in beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators:" 23.1.49, The Sunday Pictorial (quoted in For Those Who Cannot Speak (ref. 27), p.21.The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months..The investigators would put a black hood over the accused's head, punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses. Observer & American judge, van Roden

    - Judge van Roden's allegation of torture to gain "confessions" is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred. Congressional Record, appendix v. 95, sec.12, 3/10/49

    - U.S. Congressional Representative, Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin said:
    " The Nuremberg Trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history."
    Congressional Record, appendix, v.95, sec.14, 6/15/49

    - "The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke the blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: 'Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.'"(12)
    12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237

    - The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in 'The Wrexham Leader', October 17, 1986.
    Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
    "They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks," recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation."
    "We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance," said Mr. Jones.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.

    - "The London Cage was used partly as a torture centre, inside which large numbers of German officers and soldiers were subjected to systematic ill-treatment. In total 3,573 men passed through the Cage, and more than 1,000 were persuaded to give statements about war crimes. The brutality did not end with the war, moreover: a number of German civilians joined the servicemen who were interrogated there up to 1948.
    As the work of the Cage was wound down, the interrogation of prisoners was switched to a number of internment camps in Germany. And there is evidence that the treatment meted out in these places was, if anything, far worse. While many of the papers relating to these interrogation centres remain sealed at the Foreign Office, it is clear that one camp in the British zone became particularly notorious. At least two German prisoners starved to death there, according to a court of inquiry, while others were shot for minor offences.
     
    , @Wally
    Your main, infantile, Zionist problem is this:

    We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    Only liars demand censorship.

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

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  74. @Marcus
    Might makes right! Hitler himself said the Germans deserved to be obliterated as punishment for losing

    “The German people has not fought heroically. It deserves to perish. ”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9634647/Everyone-lied-to-me-Hitlers-rant-in-bunker.html

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    Yes, Hitler was consistent in his beliefs, unlike today's Neo-Nazi losers who talk about might making right and then whine about muh Dresden or 6 gorillion red army rapes
    , @Wally
    Laughable BS.

    As British M15 agent? Seriously?

    The Zionist 'Telegraph'. This is pure unproven fiction.

    Where is the actual German document showing this?
    Oops!
    It doesn't exist.
    Some agenda driven M15 agent merely making things up is high school hilarity.

    This is too easy.
    www.codoh.com
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  75. t-gordon says:
    @Alan Donelson
    I cannot fathom the obvious vitriol flowing through the pair of comments "appollonian" posted. I have read Michael Hoffman's work extensively and consider the essay on the tragedy of Dresden and related mass murders of people one of his most heart-felt and powerful. A scientist by training and predilection, I cannot engage competently the several "Pelagian" references and the following nasty attack:

    "So what’s Hoffman’s real object for this latest article of his?–just more of his usual moralistic virtue-signaling and one-upsmanship, pretending, like the Pelagian hereticalist he is, to knowing all about moralistic “virtue,” lecturing others–like he evidently does for his own, poor, victimized children."

    I do wonder why the moderator -- this comment thread is moderated, I presume -- allowed the two postings by "appollonian", apparently his|her first two on this site, and specifically motivated by attacking Mr. Hoffman. I hope others who frequent this site can express similar sensibilities.

    Sadly, I believe that there’s more than a grain of truth behind both the author’s and apollonian’s ‘revisions’ to the mainstream narrative. Being the Pelagianist (I had to look that one up) that I am, I still believe in the reality Jesus Christ and his teachings, but… Regardless, according to “apollonian”, I’m hellbound for daring to question Man’s total depravity. In his book I might as well be a soulless communist/relativist/Satanist. In my book, I am far from any of those three. Aww Shucks. Someday, we’ll all find out. Hubris?

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  76. At this juncture we pause to contemplate the bloody treason that was at the heart of Churchill’s soul: he wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible, so he could point to their deaths as the justification for a total war against Germany, and he succeeded in his objective.

    One can hardly call this treason.

    Prior to shifting the air war to the Blitz, Fighter Command was on the verge of being broken.

    And the destruction of housing stock is much less damaging to the war effort than the destruction of vital industries.

    So at a stroke, Churchill prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority over England and shifted their attacks to non-strategic targets.

    And if what you say is true about the British peace movement, Churchill removed political opposition detrimental to the war effort. It must be remembered that the British government possessed less power than the German government and was both more dependent on public opinion and had less ability to mold it.

    That’s not to justify the destruction of Dresden of course, but as it was said of the Germans of the time–sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

    Britain probably would’ve been better off not pursuing the bombing campaign at all. Something like one-third of Britain’s industrial effort was in support of the bombing campaign, which did not begin to have decisive effects until the second half of 1944. Of course no one could have known this in 1940.

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    • Replies: @Sparkon

    Prior to shifting the air war to the Blitz, Fighter Command was on the verge of being broken.

    And the destruction of housing stock is much less damaging to the war effort than the destruction of vital industries.

    So at a stroke, Churchill prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority over England and shifted their attacks to non-strategic targets.
     

    Yes, I think there is merit to your observations, but I'd argue that prevention of Fighter Command's destruction was engineered by secret agent man Adolph Hitler, and not the drunken warmonger Winston Churchill.

    Once again, the Führer seemed entirely too eager to jump for the bait, and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Already he had allowed the defeated British Expeditionary Force to escape destruction or capture at Dunkirk.

    If a prize fighter has his opponent on the ropes, wobbly on his feet, and on his last legs, yet fails to deliver a knock-out blow, and indeed goes on to lose the fight in a crushing defeat, the incredulous and suspicious fight fan might well entertain thoughts that the fight had been fixed.

    I know there are many who cannot or will not consider the premise that both WWI and WWII were planned, arranged, and orchestrated, at least in part by ensuring that the right people -- or wrong people, if you choose -- were in the right places as various pressures were exerted here, strings pulled there, not least of all through the mass media, but also by a host of actions undertaken by those who were under the sway of the hidden entities lusting for war, such as FDR, who had taken steps sure to enrage the ultranationalist hotheads in Japan's military.

    While he was working on that, FDR ordered US Navy destroyers to harass German U-boats in the Atlantic, hoping to provoke a shooting incident that could be used as justification for getting into the war against Germany.

    Back in the Pacific, FDR's "pop-up cruises" sent flotillas of Navy cruisers on maneuvers designed to further provoke the Japanese. Flying Tigers had been sent to China along with over 100 aircraft, and the entire U.S. B-17 production was being sent to the Philippines.


    Also, Japan’s rulers knew that in March 1941, Congress had granted FDR permission to send money and equipment to the Chinese under the Lend-Lease Act.

    In short, by launching the Flying Tigers, President Roosevelt declared war on the Japanese before the Japanese attacked the U.S. He gave the Japanese the legal right to bomb Pearl Harbor, and did not tell the American people or the commanders at Pearl Harbor.
     

    http://www.daveblackonline.com/lying_presidents.htm

    For various reasons, including a timely plane crash, the Luftwaffe did not develop an effective heavy bomber before or during WWII. By contrast, both the United States, and Britain had heavy bombers under development by the mid to late 30s. The design specification for what led to the B-17 was issued On 8 August 1934.

    For the war, about 4,000 B-17s were built, along with a similar number of B-25s, but the Americans also built over 18, 000 B-24s, and another 4,000 B-29s. RAF Bomber Command disposed of 11 different types of bombers, including 15,000 heavy bombers, almost half of which were Lancasters, and about 13,300 mediums, the vast majority of which were Wellingtons. (light bombers excluded; all numbers approx.)

    It was these kinds of numbers of operational bombers that allowed Bomber Command to undertake the famous, or should I say infamous, Thousand Bomber Raids to flatten Germany with "carpet bombing."

    For Dresden, the RAF and the USAAF marshaled over 1,200 bombers for a series of devastating raids over several days. Some sources say that the industrial regions of Dresden lay far outside the city, and these were not hit until later, almost as an afterthought.

    I am inclined to think that the higher fatality figures may be closer to the truth because of the many, uncountable refugees who had fled there seeking safety in a city that had not been bombed. There easily could have been several hundred thousand people in the city, but of course the entire Western propaganda machine would be working overtime to ensure that the real death figure would be pushed down, way down.

    , @utu
    Agree. You made very good points.

    The author's idea that Churchill "wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible" just indicates he is unhinged or totally dishonest. Then some "Sparkon" takes it even deeper into the lunatic asylum suggesting that Hitler was an agent of whatever.
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  77. Marcus says:
    @Jon Halpenny
    "The German people has not fought heroically. It deserves to perish. "


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9634647/Everyone-lied-to-me-Hitlers-rant-in-bunker.html

    Yes, Hitler was consistent in his beliefs, unlike today’s Neo-Nazi losers who talk about might making right and then whine about muh Dresden or 6 gorillion red army rapes

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Except there is no proof for your uneducated claims. As I have repeatedly shown. It is you who is truly in denial.

    - If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$"?
    - If the alleged ‘holocaust’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent free speech & scrutiny of it?
    - Why do Jews want '6M Jews' to be dead?
    - Why have Jews have been marketing the '6,000,000' lie since at least 1869?

    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php
    http://balder.org/judea/billeder-judea/Scan-New-York-Times-Six-Million-Since-1869-Composite.jpg


    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous 'holocaust' storyline is the message. www.codoh.com
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  78. Wally says:
    @utu

    the “100 000 dead” figure imo isn’t credible
     
    Because it was more than 100,000. German cuckhood of which German_reader is an exemplar reached zenith after the reunification. They agreed to link Dresden to British Coventry narrative and drastically lowered the number of dead. During good old times of DDR one could walk around Dresden and curse British and Americans openly. The bombing raids were officially called terrorist. And now in the unified crucified Germany we learn it was justified because of Coventry. How many people died in Coventry?

    Excellent, fact based discussion here, propaganda shattered:

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain?

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    http://www.codoh.com

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  79. Wally says:
    @fnn

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.
     
    Hitler invaded USSR because Britain refused peace terms and it was clear that FDR was gearing up to enter the war. Germany needed the resources of the Soviets to have any chance to defeat the American economic collosus in combination with the British Empire. Respected Establishment historians Adam Tooze and John Lukacs both say the invasion was entirely rational and necessary. But Hitker bungled it by not taking Moscow.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans.
     
    The Slovaks were NS Germany’s first allies. The Czechs under the occupation were given the same benefits as German workers- with the bonus of not being subject to conscription. The lack of discontent prompted the British to send in a Czech emigre team to assassinate Heydrich in order to stir things up. Hitler of course took the bait.

    Hitler also got along well with the Poles when Pilsudski was in charge. Here’s Wikipedia on Pilsudski:


    After Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in January 1933, Piłsudski is rumored to have proposed to France a preventive war against Germany. It has been argued that Piłsudski may have been sounding out France regarding possible joint military action against Germany.Lack of French interest may have been a reason for Poland signing the Non-Aggression Pact of January 1934. Little evidence has, however, been found in French or Polish diplomatic archives that such a proposal for preventive war was ever actually advanced.Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the Soviet Union, but Piłsudski declined, instead seeking precious time to prepare for potential war with either Germany or the Soviet Union. Just before his death, Piłsudski told Józef Beck that it must be Poland’s policy to maintain neutral relations with Germany, keep up the Polish alliance with France and improve relations with the United Kingdom.
     
    But there is a rather complicated history between Germans and Slavs:
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    With the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, millions of ethnic Germans became vulnerable minorities in other countries. Hundreds of thousands were either forcibly expelled to Germany or their situation was so desperate they emigrated to the Reich. Almost 10 percent of the ethnic German population of Czechoslovakia emigrated to Germany before 1938.

    I can attest that, to this day, French young people are not taught in school about the ethnic cleansing their forefathers committed against defeated Germany:

    In the wake of the First World War, the French had purged the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine, classified their population according to “blood origins” and driven out more than 90,000 people in barely a year: the German population of the Moselle department dropped from 164,502 in 1910 to under 45,000 in 1921. (199)

    A total of some 200,000 ethnic Germans were expelled from reannexed Alsace-Lorraine.

    The situation was similarly bad in Poland:

    In Poland itself, the Germans were seen as second-class citizens and traitors [. . .] “Polish land for the Poles” was a common watchword, and [Prime Minister Władysław] Sikorski spoke in 1923 of ‘de-Germanizing’ the western provinces. (36-37).

    Some 575,000 Germans would leave their ancestral lands in Poland to rejoin Germany between 1918 and 1926 alone, including half of the ethnic German populations of ceded Poznania and West Prussia. Mazower stresses that German expulsion and persecution of Poles was in some respects meant as both retaliation for and reversal of Polish policies:

    Everyone knew how, after 1918, their [ethnic Germans’] land had been confiscated or surrounded with subsidized clusters of new settlements. Hostile officials had discouraged them from speaking German or declaring themselves as Germans in censuses and even the landscape itself had been de-Germanized through changes to the names of families, streets and entire towns. In many areas Germans had been deliberately expelled; in others they had sold up and left, or bowed to the pressure to change their nationality. The Nazi regime saw reversing the effect of these decades as a priority. “Make this land German for me again!” Hitler had ordered an official after the conquest of northern Yugoslavia in 1941. His message to those he appointed to the Reich’s other borderlands was basically the same.
     

    On "anti-Slavism" as ideology:
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    Allied propaganda and conventional narratives emphasize that the Third Reich’s racial ideology saw Slavs as “subhumans,” a term in fact more often used in a dysgenic rather than ethnic sense. Mazower makes clear however the paradoxical fact that German racial science at the time was actually a moderating influence on Slavophobia, because Slavs were considered a linguistic rather than a racial group:

    Prewar Germany funded racial science well – as it did the sciences in general – and the Third Reich was a particularly generous sponsor. [. . .] The discipline of racial science itself was in turmoil, and many German scholars had already become aware of the difficulties. [. . .] [K]nowing how to distinguish a German from a non-German – the key concern for those running the new empire – was not something upon which it was possible to get expert consensus. (182)

    Hitler apparently agreed:

    Hitler himself thought Himmler’s race mysticism was impractical and, while hostile to Serbs and Russians in general, he felt differently about other groups of Slavs. He praised the Czechs as “industrious and intelligent workers” and speculated that blue-eyed Ukrainians might be “peasant descendants of German tribes who never migrated.” In fact, he came round to the view – common among German anthropologists – that there was, racial speaking, no such category as “Slavs”; it was a linguistic term, nothing more.
     

    The facts discussed here, propaganda shattered:

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    http://www.codoh.com

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  80. Ivan K. says: • Website

    The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people

    Even a dedicated, loyal fan of David Irving would have been bewildered by this claim. If the exact number is inessential, why just one highly eccentric estimate. If it is important, why leave it without a single reference or an explanation. If you know better than your readership, enlighten it, Mr. Hoffman.

    And I, too, am tired of this memorialising selectivity. In the Western mainstream media, it’s the Jews Jews Jews. Among revisionist Westerners, the highlight is reserved for the Germans and only the Germans. Well, if you’re so close-minded to exclude even Christians of Western outlook that were of other nationalities, let alone Asian, you’ll end up on a receiving end of a same kind of close-mindedness. After all, during the war the churches were open and active throughout the Slavic world.

    And before I end, here are comments of an eyewitness and participant in the bombing of Dresden, preceded and followed by remarks from David Irving.

    David Irving, April 2009:
    “Eventually I went to and spoke to master bomber airman “Bomber” Harris.
    A great man, great commander. I know many people don’t like him. I know
    many call him a war criminal. … Bomber Harris’s told me he didn’t want
    to carry the bomb air raids either. But he had been ordered to do it. It
    was a political decision by Churchill, and himself.
    I mean, I interviewed him back in April 1962, and the book I finally
    published became a bestseller. …”
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97L_SJrPl6g) (11:12)

    I forwarded the above quote in my message to Freeman Dyson, who worked in the Operational Research Section (ORS) of the Royal Air Force’s Bomber Command since 1943. He responded:

    Date: June 05, 2016 5:32 PM
    Dear Ivan K.

    I am not a historian and do not claim to know all the facts. What I know comes from the official history of the RAF bombing campaign by Noble and Frankland.

    The basic strategy of Britain for fighting WW2 was fixed by the government in 1936, when the decision was made to build a big force of strategic bombers as the primary instrument for defeating Germany. Once that decision was made, everything else followed, all the way until Dresden. Neither Churchill nor Harris was responsible for the decision.
    Both of them were executing the strategy that was already decided. The person chiefly responsible for the decision was Hugh Trenchard, who was retired but still highly influential in 1936.

    The statement of Harris to David Irving was made 17 years after the war. Like many such statements by military people and politicians, it is strongly influenced by hindsight. Harris is remembering things as he wished they had been rather than as they were. His behavior during the war makes it clear that he was executing the bombing strategy with much more enthusiasm than the situation demanded. And the same can be said of Churchill.

    Yours sincerely, Freeman Dyson.

    I then forwarded Dyson’s response to David Irving, and he responded:

    Wednesday, June 22, 2016 12:45 PM
    From: info fpp.co.uk

    That was an interesting exchange. Thank yifor sharing i with me.

    David Irving
    Inverness, Scotland (UK)

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    There is no contradiction between what Dyson and Irving said. What is interesting is that in 1940 during the Battle of England in the phase when Germans were bombing airports to destroy RAF Churchill decided to start bombing civilian population in Germany to provoke Germans to reciprocate which they did after 2 weeks of provocations to their own detriment because that lifted the pressure off from badly beaten RAF and thus the Battle of England was lost for Germany.

    BTW: I have just discovered that my internet provider Time Warner started blocking David Irving site few days ago.
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  81. EugeneGur says:
    @jilles dykstra
    I invite anyone to read
    Victor Klemperer, ‘I will bear witness, A diary of the Nazi years, 1942-1945’, New York 1999
    Klemperer was a jew, living in Dresden, who was treated badly, but never deported, he was married to a 'full German' woman.
    The couple survived the bombing, but Klemper's description of what he saw is more than horrible, people still living, burning, fosfor.
    From a military point of view the bombing was nonsense, the war was in fact over, the old city was bombed, that had no industries at all.
    The estimated number of deaths over time went down all the time, no count was done at the time, there were more urgent things to do.
    I long wondered about the why, from bits of information here and there I now suppose it was to impress Stalin with the military might of the west.
    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.

    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.

    It is interesting for a psychiatrist, perhaps. Good Germans also never saw concentrations camps or gas chambers even when they could see them from their windows. You, for example, is hard at work denying facts documented in literally tons of documents, photos, films, witness accounts, because you can find some Victor or other who, interestingly, never saw anything. if you knew anything about proof, you’d know that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because somebody saw nothing doesn’t mean there was nothing to see.

    BTW you should make up your mind, and so does that Victor character – either there was no prosecution (he was married to a German woman, after all and lived happily ever after, how nice!) or prosecution was justified. He understands why Hitler prosecuted Jews, doesn’t he, and, apparently, so do you.

    But if it is OK to prosecute all Jews (including newborns, I presume) for whatever crime they supposedly committed it’s equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should’t complain about Dresden.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds. As Bolshies are prone to do, they blamed them for targeting Jews, and that was a lie. They targeted Reds, many of whom happened to be Jews.

    Contrary to the lies and propaganda, non -Red Jews did well in Nazi Germany even after New York Jews declared a boycott and war against Nazis. Zionists even collaborated with Nazis.
    , @jilles dykstra
    If you read Elie Wiesel you can learn that even he never saw a gas chamber.
    Elie Wiesel, 'La Nuit', 1958, 2007

    As to why Klemperer writes he understood the persecutions of jews, he read an article, from memory, in an Ukrainian newspaper, where Weizmann, later first president of Israel wrote 'that if GB declared war on Germany any jew in the whole world would become a British agent'.

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
    Not, of course, the common jews in Europe, but of jews as Bernard Baruch and Frankfurter.
    Bruce Allen Murphy, ‘The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection, The Secret Political Activities of Two Supreme Court Justices’, New York, 1983

    Early in the war a jew escaped from a concentration camp in Poland, and was smuggled to the USA where het talked to Frankfurter.
    Frankfurter said to him 'I do not believe one word of what you're saying'.

    It took me years to understand why Franfurter said this, until I understood that he was one of the architects of the war, he wrote the LendLease Law.
    The understanding was in connection with another statement by Frankfurter about what the escaped jew had said 'I did not say he was lying, I said I did not believe him'.

    My conclusion, Frankfurter had never thought that Hitler would execute his 1939 threat, 'that if jews again caused a world war, they themselves might be ausgerottet'.
    I do not translate the last word, there is much debate over what it meant in 1939;

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.
    Klemperer just had trouble, much, with the Gestapo.
    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
    There are some pictures in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London,
    taken in Lithuania.
    , @James Kabala
    Yes, their attitude toward collective guilt and collective punishment is rather inconsistent.
    , @utu

    it’s equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should’t complain about Dresden
     
    In the decision to bomb German cities the justification by real or imagined deeds of Germans was never used. In fact the full scope of what was going on in Bloodlands and some concentration camps was not known at that time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands

    Everybody involved was aware this was a war crime to bomb civilian populations which was devoid of military age males.
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  82. utu says:
    @German_reader
    I don't have time right now for a detailed comment, but the "100 000 dead" figure imo isn't credible, I find the arguments for 25 000 to 30 000 dead persuasive (which to be sure is bad enough, I'd definitely regard the bombings done by the RAF in late 1944/early 1945 as war crimes at least in a moral, if not legal sense). People interested in the subject should look at Richard Overy's recent "The bombing war", he gives convincing reasons why casualty figures for WW2 bombing in Europe tend to be inflated more generally (this also applies to German bombing btw, claims that the Luftwaffe killed 500 000 Soviet citizens are exaggerations by a factor of ten or so).

    Kurt Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse-Five (1969) is one of the best anti-war novels. The film adaptation (1972) was surprisingly good.

    Vonnegut probably used 1963 David Irving’s The Destruction of Dresden thought most is based on his experiences as a POW in Dresden.

    Surprisingly one of the first post war sympathetic to Germans portrayal of Dresden bombing comes from Polish 1961 feature movie “Tonight a City Will Die”

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  83. Wally says:
    @fnn

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.
     
    Hitler invaded USSR because Britain refused peace terms and it was clear that FDR was gearing up to enter the war. Germany needed the resources of the Soviets to have any chance to defeat the American economic collosus in combination with the British Empire. Respected Establishment historians Adam Tooze and John Lukacs both say the invasion was entirely rational and necessary. But Hitker bungled it by not taking Moscow.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans.
     
    The Slovaks were NS Germany’s first allies. The Czechs under the occupation were given the same benefits as German workers- with the bonus of not being subject to conscription. The lack of discontent prompted the British to send in a Czech emigre team to assassinate Heydrich in order to stir things up. Hitler of course took the bait.

    Hitler also got along well with the Poles when Pilsudski was in charge. Here’s Wikipedia on Pilsudski:


    After Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in January 1933, Piłsudski is rumored to have proposed to France a preventive war against Germany. It has been argued that Piłsudski may have been sounding out France regarding possible joint military action against Germany.Lack of French interest may have been a reason for Poland signing the Non-Aggression Pact of January 1934. Little evidence has, however, been found in French or Polish diplomatic archives that such a proposal for preventive war was ever actually advanced.Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the Soviet Union, but Piłsudski declined, instead seeking precious time to prepare for potential war with either Germany or the Soviet Union. Just before his death, Piłsudski told Józef Beck that it must be Poland’s policy to maintain neutral relations with Germany, keep up the Polish alliance with France and improve relations with the United Kingdom.
     
    But there is a rather complicated history between Germans and Slavs:
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    With the Treaty of Versailles in 1919, millions of ethnic Germans became vulnerable minorities in other countries. Hundreds of thousands were either forcibly expelled to Germany or their situation was so desperate they emigrated to the Reich. Almost 10 percent of the ethnic German population of Czechoslovakia emigrated to Germany before 1938.

    I can attest that, to this day, French young people are not taught in school about the ethnic cleansing their forefathers committed against defeated Germany:

    In the wake of the First World War, the French had purged the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine, classified their population according to “blood origins” and driven out more than 90,000 people in barely a year: the German population of the Moselle department dropped from 164,502 in 1910 to under 45,000 in 1921. (199)

    A total of some 200,000 ethnic Germans were expelled from reannexed Alsace-Lorraine.

    The situation was similarly bad in Poland:

    In Poland itself, the Germans were seen as second-class citizens and traitors [. . .] “Polish land for the Poles” was a common watchword, and [Prime Minister Władysław] Sikorski spoke in 1923 of ‘de-Germanizing’ the western provinces. (36-37).

    Some 575,000 Germans would leave their ancestral lands in Poland to rejoin Germany between 1918 and 1926 alone, including half of the ethnic German populations of ceded Poznania and West Prussia. Mazower stresses that German expulsion and persecution of Poles was in some respects meant as both retaliation for and reversal of Polish policies:

    Everyone knew how, after 1918, their [ethnic Germans’] land had been confiscated or surrounded with subsidized clusters of new settlements. Hostile officials had discouraged them from speaking German or declaring themselves as Germans in censuses and even the landscape itself had been de-Germanized through changes to the names of families, streets and entire towns. In many areas Germans had been deliberately expelled; in others they had sold up and left, or bowed to the pressure to change their nationality. The Nazi regime saw reversing the effect of these decades as a priority. “Make this land German for me again!” Hitler had ordered an official after the conquest of northern Yugoslavia in 1941. His message to those he appointed to the Reich’s other borderlands was basically the same.
     

    On "anti-Slavism" as ideology:
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2016/05/hitlers-empire-1/

    Allied propaganda and conventional narratives emphasize that the Third Reich’s racial ideology saw Slavs as “subhumans,” a term in fact more often used in a dysgenic rather than ethnic sense. Mazower makes clear however the paradoxical fact that German racial science at the time was actually a moderating influence on Slavophobia, because Slavs were considered a linguistic rather than a racial group:

    Prewar Germany funded racial science well – as it did the sciences in general – and the Third Reich was a particularly generous sponsor. [. . .] The discipline of racial science itself was in turmoil, and many German scholars had already become aware of the difficulties. [. . .] [K]nowing how to distinguish a German from a non-German – the key concern for those running the new empire – was not something upon which it was possible to get expert consensus. (182)

    Hitler apparently agreed:

    Hitler himself thought Himmler’s race mysticism was impractical and, while hostile to Serbs and Russians in general, he felt differently about other groups of Slavs. He praised the Czechs as “industrious and intelligent workers” and speculated that blue-eyed Ukrainians might be “peasant descendants of German tribes who never migrated.” In fact, he came round to the view – common among German anthropologists – that there was, racial speaking, no such category as “Slavs”; it was a linguistic term, nothing more.
     

    much more here, see:
    Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

    “Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to.”
    - Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)

    .”under Polish pressure the Germans in the southern and eastern districts were subjected to oppressive treatment. On Aug. 19 1920 the Poles felt strong enough, indeed, to make an attempt to seize the country by force. On all sides bands of Poles, chiefly recruited from Congress Poland, usurped authority. A number of Germans were forcibly carried across the frontier into Poland, and many were killed. Several weeks elapsed before it was possible to quell this rising and restore order…It had been suggested by the Entente that non-resident Upper Silesians of the German Reich should vote outside Silesia, at Cologne. Germany protested against this, and her protest was recognized as valid by the Entente. In January 1921 the date of the plebiscite was fixed for March 20 1921.
    An immediate revival took place in the use of terrorism by the Poles, especially in the districts of Rybnik, Pless, Kattowitz, and Beuthen. It reached its climax in the days preceding the plebiscite. Voters from other parts of the German Reich were frequently refused admission to the polls; sometimes they were maltreated and even in some instances murdered; and houses where outvoters were staying were set on fire… The day after the plebiscite the Polish excesses recommenced, and from that date onwards continued without interruption… Practically all the towns voted for Germany… the first days of May witnessed a new Polish insurrection which assumed far greater proportions than the former one. Korfanty had secretly raised a well-organized Polish force which was provided with arms and munition from across the border, and was reinforced by large bodies of men from Poland…
    By June 20 the British troops had again occupied the larger towns, while the Poles had the upper hand in the rural districts. As a result of the difficulties in paying his men and providing them with food Korfanty now lost control over his followers. Independent bands were formed which plundered the villages, ill-treated the Germans, and murdered many of them.”

    - 1922 Encyclopaedia Britannica, “SILESIA, UPPER”

    This article appeared in the Polish newspaper Die Liga der Grossmacht in October, 1930:

    A struggle between Poland and Germany is inevitable. We must prepare ourselves for it systematically. Our goal is a new Battle of Tannenberg. However, this time, a Tannenberg in the suburbs of Berlin. Prussia must be reconquered for Poland, and Prussia, indeed, as far as the River Spree. In a war with Germany there will be no prisoners…

    “Tannenberg” refers to the Battle of Tannenberg in 1410 when a Polish army defeated the German Teutonic Knights. The article is full of many more anti-German remarks.

    Also, Von Ribbentrop defended the attack of Poland by stating that between 1919-1939, one million Germans had been expelled from Polish territory accompanied by numerous atrocities, and that complaints to the World Court in The Hague and the League of Nations in Geneva had been ignored.

    further reading:
    the book: “Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939 nach amtlichen Quellen” (Documentations of Polish Cruelties. Crimes Against Germans 1919-1939 According to Official Sources).

    http://www.codoh.com

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Discrimination, and worse, of Germans in Poland is confirmed by
    Helmuth Fechner, ´Deutschland und Polen, 1772 – 1945’, Würzburg 1964
    Günter Grass, ‘Beim Häuten der Zwiebel’, München 2008
    Grass grew up in Danzig, he had relatives ouside Danzig.
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  84. EugeneGur says:
    @Wally
    Warsaw was "destroyed"? Not.

    Parts of it were attacked, being a legit military target.
    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.

    Paris? " which Hitler wanted to destroy" Proof?

    I'm sure you'll say next: 'Hitler wanted to destroy Mexico City' too.

    You have been indoctrinated, laughably so.

    www.codoh.com

    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.

    Could you enlightened us as to which “international law” even at those damned times authorized ghettos?

    Paris? ” which Hitler wanted to destroy” Proof?

    I don’t know what Hitler wanted and I could’t care less. I know what he did – he destroyed Kiev, Kerch, Sevastopol, Stalingrad, to name just a few. He blew out magnificent suburbs of St. Petersburg: Peterhof, Pavlovsk, Tzarskoye Selo, Gatchina – everything he could lay his dirty hands on. He destroyed pre-Mongol 11-12 century churches in Great Novgorod, and this is just a small part.

    I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Around jan 1 1945 Hitler indeed gave orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.
    The orders were sabotaged, or simply refused.
    , @David In TN
    "I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time."

    Yes. These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins who have ruined Caste Football.
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  85. Wally says: • Website
    @Marcus
    Lmao once again, the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did, had infinitely more integrity than their brain dead modern wannabes. As for the Nero Decree, you can find it in any number of works on the war's last few months, e.g. Toland's "The Last 100 Days," but I'm sure you'll keep covering your ears anyway

    said:
    “the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did”

    As usual, you are utterly wrong, childishly so. What’s alleged is scientifically impossible.
    Indeed torture will get some of the desired results, see below, however, here is a massive list of ‘Nazis who most definitely rejected the impossible propaganda:

    quora.com / Tim O’Neill: Nazis never denied ‘holocaust’ / WRONG

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8165

    and:

    [MORE]

    All but two of the Germans [on trial at Nuremberg], in the 139 cases that we investigated, had their testicles kicked in beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators:” 23.1.49, The Sunday Pictorial (quoted in For Those Who Cannot Speak (ref. 27), p.21.The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months..The investigators would put a black hood over the accused’s head, punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses. Observer & American judge, van Roden

    - Judge van Roden’s allegation of torture to gain “confessions” is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred. Congressional Record, appendix v. 95, sec.12, 3/10/49

    - U.S. Congressional Representative, Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin said:
    ” The Nuremberg Trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history.”
    Congressional Record, appendix, v.95, sec.14, 6/15/49

    - “The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke the blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: ‘Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.’”(12)
    12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237

    - The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in ‘The Wrexham Leader’, October 17, 1986.
    Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
    “They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks,” recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation.”
    “We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance,” said Mr. Jones.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.

    - “The London Cage was used partly as a torture centre, inside which large numbers of German officers and soldiers were subjected to systematic ill-treatment. In total 3,573 men passed through the Cage, and more than 1,000 were persuaded to give statements about war crimes. The brutality did not end with the war, moreover: a number of German civilians joined the servicemen who were interrogated there up to 1948.
    As the work of the Cage was wound down, the interrogation of prisoners was switched to a number of internment camps in Germany. And there is evidence that the treatment meted out in these places was, if anything, far worse. While many of the papers relating to these interrogation centres remain sealed at the Foreign Office, it is clear that one camp in the British zone became particularly notorious. At least two German prisoners starved to death there, according to a court of inquiry, while others were shot for minor offences.

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  86. Wally says:
    @Marcus
    Lmao once again, the Nazis themselves, who never bothered denying what they did, had infinitely more integrity than their brain dead modern wannabes. As for the Nero Decree, you can find it in any number of works on the war's last few months, e.g. Toland's "The Last 100 Days," but I'm sure you'll keep covering your ears anyway

    Your main, infantile, Zionist problem is this:

    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    Only liars demand censorship.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    So you just call everyone you don't like as a Zionist? Typical of Neo-Nazi cowards to obfuscate their anti-semitism. Personally, I hope Israel gets wiped out by Iran
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  87. I lived in Germany as a military dependent.

    The tragic consequences of total war strategy was visited on Dresden. But such policy is non-unique in annals of war. Nor was total war the domain of the allies.

    I get the argument here and would not deny the tragedy of total war campaigns. But that is not the same thing as genocide in targeting a unique population. Dresden was an attack that made no respecter of personal or group identity identity.

    If it had been the French who launched crusades as the Germans, then some French industrial city would have been targeted.

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    • Replies: @utu
    Actually you are an idiot. Indiscriminate killing is worse than selective with respect to real or imaginary deserts. If somebody kills your child because this somebody thinks that your child deserves it is worse than if somebody bombs your whole house killing everybody in it just because this somebody can to it?
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  88. Wally says:
    @Jon Halpenny
    "The German people has not fought heroically. It deserves to perish. "


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9634647/Everyone-lied-to-me-Hitlers-rant-in-bunker.html

    Laughable BS.

    As British M15 agent? Seriously?

    The Zionist ‘Telegraph’. This is pure unproven fiction.

    Where is the actual German document showing this?
    Oops!
    It doesn’t exist.
    Some agenda driven M15 agent merely making things up is high school hilarity.

    This is too easy.
    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    I heard insulting people you don't know is a great way of convincing people.
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  89. @Anon
    Churchill and his top military circle were not Judaic, yet they set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

    War brings out the UGLY in every group. But, the Brits didn't want to kill so many Germans as part of some grand strategy. Instead, the war got really ugly, and it brought out the vengeful and sadistic side of human nature. In other words, had there been no war between UK and Germany, the Brits never would have wanted to kill all those Germans. Once a fight breaks out, a kind of rage takes over. People lose all sense of proportions and want to do maximum damage. This is why boxing has referees. Without them, it can easily lead to murder in the ring.

    Unlike Brits who just lost their heads in the bloody melee, German policy in the East wasn't a case of violent overreaction. There was a radical plan of genocide and slavery on an unprecedented scale. Not only did the Germans attack first and not only were they willing to do ANYTHING to defeat the USSR, but the planned 'peace' would have meant whole extermination of tens of millions of Russians and enslavement of the rest.

    So, while I agree that the Dresden bombing was a war crime and shouldn't have been committed, I still see it as an evil act among many evil acts in a war that brought out the worst on all sides. It was the fury of war that made the Brits act devilish.
    In contrast, Hitler had a devilish plan even in peacetime prior to the war and would have acted devilishly further had he won in Russia. His 'peace' plan for Russia would have been 1000x more frightening that what UK did to Germany and even what Soviets did to Germany, which was abominable.

    It is time for the West to fully acknowledge the great suffering of German people in WWII(and it's time to stop treating the Shoah as a neo-religion than as a tragic event in history), but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler's actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.

    Also, Hoffman's mention of German as racial 'cousins' gives the game away. The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan's UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

    In fact, the whole mess could have been avoided if Hitler and Nazis had respected Poles and other Slavs as fellow whites and Europeans. The truly big failure was not Anglos failing to recognize Germans as their cousins but Germans having failed to recognize Slavs as racial cousins too.

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology. His way was death or enslavement of all Russian Slavs as a bunch of helots.

    The hidden logic of revisionists is really this: Anglos and Germans were racial cousins, so they should have allied together and wiped out Russians as the inferior Slavs with tainted blood. Read between the lines in Buchanan’s UNNECESSARY WAR and you get the same sick demented logic.

    Germany’s main enemy was (and remains) a master of blaming others for their own crimes and shortcomings. The Nazis were up against some of the world’s premier racists, i.e., Zionists who are themselves a particularly nasty offshoot of another vicious, hate-filled racist cult.

    Here’s an example of what I’m referring to.:

    “”Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.”
    Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat.”According to Yosef, death has “no dominion” over non-Jews in Israel.

    “Hate the Gentile!” Israel’s Racist Rabbis, by JONATHAN COOK

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/10/israel-s-racist-rabbis/

    I’ll take revisionist history over propaganda fantasy any day.

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  90. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally
    said in trying to appease the violent Zionists:
    "but too many revisionist types moan and groan about dead Germans but show no such sympathy for all the dead Russians, Poles, and Jews. At every turn, they apologize for Hitler’s actions or minimize the brutality carried out by Germans while making a huge deal about German suffering and victimhood.” "

    Strawmen galore. Revisionist do nothing of the sort.
    Please present your proof for your "brutality carried out by Germans".
    As for "Hitler's actions", please tell us what those were, present proof.

    The fact of the matter is that the '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossble.
    You nor anyone else can change that fact. Real history requires real proof, which you do not have. Simple as that. Cheers.
    See the impossible ‘holocaust’ storyline debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com
    Only liars demand censorship.

    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/HH-July2017-30secs+DonationPitch.mp4
    Chemistry of Auschwitz / Birkenau
    https://youtu.be/SUc6Y_E5zb0

    The Holocaust, believe it or not, is not a major concern of mine. You and the Jews do not understand that the Holocaust, like oil reserves, is a finite resource. They are already running out of Holocaust fuel for the grievance industry.

    However, a fair understanding of history is of interest to me. The actual political battles being fought now, even more.

    By the way, in your book, was there anything wrong at all with Nazi ideology? What about policies? Concrete acts? No criticism is fair?

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    • Replies: @Wally
    The 'Nazis' did nothing that wasn't being done worldwide at the time.
    recall:

    - FDR forcing Jap. - Ams. into concentration camps, stealing their possession, etc.

    - recall the worldwide dislike & criminalization of homosexuals, which BTW, there is no proof that the 'Nazis' killed a single one because of being gay, not one. Same for the gypsies. *

    - recall the Soviet persecution, & gulaging of countless Christians & political opponents

    * The Myth of a Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals by Jack Wikoff http://www.cwporter.com/homo.htm

    Gypsies and Homosexuals in the Camps http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1894

    homosexuals - Yad Vashem ... http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1930

    The 'homosexuals & gypsies' canard is merely an attempt by Jews to buy votes for their laughable and impossible '6M & gas chambers'.

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    , @jacques sheete

    By the way, in your book, was there anything wrong at all with Nazi ideology? What about policies? Concrete acts? No criticism is fair?
     
    You're missing the point completely. About the only thing we ever hear is loads of crap about their faults and frankly many of us are tired of being lied to and hearing only one side of the story. The bigger point is that some of us feel it's about time that the truth be told.
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  91. Marcus says:
    @Wally
    Your main, infantile, Zionist problem is this:

    We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    Only liars demand censorship.

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

    So you just call everyone you don’t like as a Zionist? Typical of Neo-Nazi cowards to obfuscate their anti-semitism. Personally, I hope Israel gets wiped out by Iran

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    You're projecting, when in fact you are the coward, afraid to debate your juvenile claims.

    antisemitic: any thought or person that Jew doesn't like.

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com
     
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  92. @Wally
    much more here, see:
    Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

    "Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to."
    - Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)
     

    .”under Polish pressure the Germans in the southern and eastern districts were subjected to oppressive treatment. On Aug. 19 1920 the Poles felt strong enough, indeed, to make an attempt to seize the country by force. On all sides bands of Poles, chiefly recruited from Congress Poland, usurped authority. A number of Germans were forcibly carried across the frontier into Poland, and many were killed. Several weeks elapsed before it was possible to quell this rising and restore order…It had been suggested by the Entente that non-resident Upper Silesians of the German Reich should vote outside Silesia, at Cologne. Germany protested against this, and her protest was recognized as valid by the Entente. In January 1921 the date of the plebiscite was fixed for March 20 1921.
    An immediate revival took place in the use of terrorism by the Poles, especially in the districts of Rybnik, Pless, Kattowitz, and Beuthen. It reached its climax in the days preceding the plebiscite. Voters from other parts of the German Reich were frequently refused admission to the polls; sometimes they were maltreated and even in some instances murdered; and houses where outvoters were staying were set on fire… The day after the plebiscite the Polish excesses recommenced, and from that date onwards continued without interruption… Practically all the towns voted for Germany… the first days of May witnessed a new Polish insurrection which assumed far greater proportions than the former one. Korfanty had secretly raised a well-organized Polish force which was provided with arms and munition from across the border, and was reinforced by large bodies of men from Poland…
    By June 20 the British troops had again occupied the larger towns, while the Poles had the upper hand in the rural districts. As a result of the difficulties in paying his men and providing them with food Korfanty now lost control over his followers. Independent bands were formed which plundered the villages, ill-treated the Germans, and murdered many of them.”

    - 1922 Encyclopaedia Britannica, “SILESIA, UPPER”
     
    This article appeared in the Polish newspaper Die Liga der Grossmacht in October, 1930:

    A struggle between Poland and Germany is inevitable. We must prepare ourselves for it systematically. Our goal is a new Battle of Tannenberg. However, this time, a Tannenberg in the suburbs of Berlin. Prussia must be reconquered for Poland, and Prussia, indeed, as far as the River Spree. In a war with Germany there will be no prisoners…
     
    “Tannenberg” refers to the Battle of Tannenberg in 1410 when a Polish army defeated the German Teutonic Knights. The article is full of many more anti-German remarks.

    Also, Von Ribbentrop defended the attack of Poland by stating that between 1919-1939, one million Germans had been expelled from Polish territory accompanied by numerous atrocities, and that complaints to the World Court in The Hague and the League of Nations in Geneva had been ignored.

    further reading:
    the book: "Dokumente polnischer Grausamkeiten. Verbrechen an Deutschen 1919-1939 nach amtlichen Quellen" (Documentations of Polish Cruelties. Crimes Against Germans 1919-1939 According to Official Sources).

    www.codoh.com

    Discrimination, and worse, of Germans in Poland is confirmed by
    Helmuth Fechner, ´Deutschland und Polen, 1772 – 1945’, Würzburg 1964
    Günter Grass, ‘Beim Häuten der Zwiebel’, München 2008
    Grass grew up in Danzig, he had relatives ouside Danzig.

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  93. Wally says:
    @Marcus
    Yes, Hitler was consistent in his beliefs, unlike today's Neo-Nazi losers who talk about might making right and then whine about muh Dresden or 6 gorillion red army rapes

    Except there is no proof for your uneducated claims. As I have repeatedly shown. It is you who is truly in denial.

    - If there was ‘a plan to kill every Jew the Germans could get their hands on’ then why are there countless numbers of so called “survivor$”?
    - If the alleged ‘holocaust’ was fact, then why are there laws in Europe to prevent free speech & scrutiny of it?
    - Why do Jews want ’6M Jews’ to be dead?
    - Why have Jews have been marketing the ’6,000,000′ lie since at least 1869?

    http://balder.org/judea/New-York-Times-Six-Million-Jews-Since-1869.php

    Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ridiculous ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message. http://www.codoh.com

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  94. bjondo says:

    More German civilians died/murdered in Dresden from Brit/Amer bombing than total Jew deaths all camps.

    More Germans died/murdered from 1945 to 1950 in the Morganthau-Eisenhower camps than jew died in all Jew invented pogroms.

    Pat Buchanan has a good book about WW2, “The Unnecessary War”. Doesn’t mention Balfour’s Declaration and few other important Jew related facts. Pretty much standard stuff re Jew.

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  95. @EugeneGur

    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.
     
    It is interesting for a psychiatrist, perhaps. Good Germans also never saw concentrations camps or gas chambers even when they could see them from their windows. You, for example, is hard at work denying facts documented in literally tons of documents, photos, films, witness accounts, because you can find some Victor or other who, interestingly, never saw anything. if you knew anything about proof, you'd know that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because somebody saw nothing doesn't mean there was nothing to see.

    BTW you should make up your mind, and so does that Victor character - either there was no prosecution (he was married to a German woman, after all and lived happily ever after, how nice!) or prosecution was justified. He understands why Hitler prosecuted Jews, doesn't he, and, apparently, so do you.

    But if it is OK to prosecute all Jews (including newborns, I presume) for whatever crime they supposedly committed it's equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should't complain about Dresden.

    The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds. As Bolshies are prone to do, they blamed them for targeting Jews, and that was a lie. They targeted Reds, many of whom happened to be Jews.

    Contrary to the lies and propaganda, non -Red Jews did well in Nazi Germany even after New York Jews declared a boycott and war against Nazis. Zionists even collaborated with Nazis.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Zionist collaboration with Eichmann:
    Yitshaq Ben-Ami, ‘Years of wrath, Days of glory Memoirs from the Irgun’, New York, 1982
    , @EugeneGur

    The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds.
     
    Poor nice peaceful Nazi were forced to deal with those pesky Reds that resisted them murdering everyone in sight and finally beat them to a pulp. I truly sympathize with their plight.

    Those nasty 'Bolshies" blamed the Nazis exactly for what the Nazis are prone to do: targeting everyone they didn't like - the Jews, the Russians, the Gypsies, red, blue, yellow, men, women , children, didn't matter. The Nazis were murdering bastards, but how do we call those that defend them?

    Many collaborated with the Nazis. After reading comments like yours I am no longer surprised that almost the entire Europe fought on Hitler's side: nazism is deeply ingrained into the European psyche.
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  96. @EugeneGur

    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.
     
    Could you enlightened us as to which "international law" even at those damned times authorized ghettos?

    Paris? ” which Hitler wanted to destroy” Proof?
     
    I don't know what Hitler wanted and I could't care less. I know what he did - he destroyed Kiev, Kerch, Sevastopol, Stalingrad, to name just a few. He blew out magnificent suburbs of St. Petersburg: Peterhof, Pavlovsk, Tzarskoye Selo, Gatchina - everything he could lay his dirty hands on. He destroyed pre-Mongol 11-12 century churches in Great Novgorod, and this is just a small part.

    I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time.

    Around jan 1 1945 Hitler indeed gave orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.
    The orders were sabotaged, or simply refused.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    No he didn't.
    Show us these 'Hitler orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.'
    You cannot.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
    - "holocaust historian" Raul Hilberg
     
    www.codoh.com
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  97. @Ace
    He might have been a trifle stressed when he said that but probably it was calm, deliberate assessment if you think about it.

    It’s doubtful that Hitler assessed anything calmly and deliberately after about 1943, given his use of amphetamines and Dolophine . By most accounts, he was extremely unstable and given to rages.

    No calm, deliberate assessment could lead any thinking human being into deciding that his own people deserved obliteration simply for being defeated, especially if that human being was their leader in the war. Face it; Hitler was clearly insane once the war went against him and he succumbed to drug addiction.

    Before he actually went nuts, he was pretty much fucked in the squash after the “Great War”.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    And strychnine, in injections.
    , @Wally
    Got proof, or just Zionist propaganda?

    I see you you ignored Chuchill's verifiable raging alcoholism.

    www.codoh.com

    We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.
     
    , @Anonymous
    It wasn't just the drugs. Hitler took pride in his moody and unpredictable "artistic" temperament, in contrast to the conventional rational/logical mentality of the professional soldiers and politicians around him. He was different. He knew he was different. It was why he was fuhrer.
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  98. @Alden
    Guernica was a commie stronghold. Too bad their ideas survived and came to fruition in America

    Too bad their ideas survived and came to fruition in America

    Their ideas did much more than survive in this cesspool. Commie-nizm, if not made in Amerika, was financed and supported by many ‘Merkin “elite.” It was, and apparently still is, a very “kool” thing to do/ be.

    “Today I marvel that the world communist movement was able to beat the drums against Germany and never once betray what the inner group knew well: that some of the same forces which gave Hitler his start had also started Lenin and his staff of revolutionists from Switzerland to St. Petersburg to begin the revolution which was to result in the Soviet totalitarian state.”

    -Bella Dodd, School of Darkness, Ch 7

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  99. @Marcus
    Yes, of course. They lost to a superior civilization.

    Your statement is obviously the work of a profoundly disturbed mind. Seek help before you snap and kill us all.

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  100. @EugeneGur

    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.
     
    It is interesting for a psychiatrist, perhaps. Good Germans also never saw concentrations camps or gas chambers even when they could see them from their windows. You, for example, is hard at work denying facts documented in literally tons of documents, photos, films, witness accounts, because you can find some Victor or other who, interestingly, never saw anything. if you knew anything about proof, you'd know that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because somebody saw nothing doesn't mean there was nothing to see.

    BTW you should make up your mind, and so does that Victor character - either there was no prosecution (he was married to a German woman, after all and lived happily ever after, how nice!) or prosecution was justified. He understands why Hitler prosecuted Jews, doesn't he, and, apparently, so do you.

    But if it is OK to prosecute all Jews (including newborns, I presume) for whatever crime they supposedly committed it's equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should't complain about Dresden.

    If you read Elie Wiesel you can learn that even he never saw a gas chamber.
    Elie Wiesel, ‘La Nuit’, 1958, 2007

    As to why Klemperer writes he understood the persecutions of jews, he read an article, from memory, in an Ukrainian newspaper, where Weizmann, later first president of Israel wrote ‘that if GB declared war on Germany any jew in the whole world would become a British agent’.

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
    Not, of course, the common jews in Europe, but of jews as Bernard Baruch and Frankfurter.
    Bruce Allen Murphy, ‘The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection, The Secret Political Activities of Two Supreme Court Justices’, New York, 1983

    Early in the war a jew escaped from a concentration camp in Poland, and was smuggled to the USA where het talked to Frankfurter.
    Frankfurter said to him ‘I do not believe one word of what you’re saying’.

    It took me years to understand why Franfurter said this, until I understood that he was one of the architects of the war, he wrote the LendLease Law.
    The understanding was in connection with another statement by Frankfurter about what the escaped jew had said ‘I did not say he was lying, I said I did not believe him’.

    My conclusion, Frankfurter had never thought that Hitler would execute his 1939 threat, ‘that if jews again caused a world war, they themselves might be ausgerottet’.
    I do not translate the last word, there is much debate over what it meant in 1939;

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.
    Klemperer just had trouble, much, with the Gestapo.
    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
    There are some pictures in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London,
    taken in Lithuania.

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    • Replies: @utu

    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
     
    Neither Dan Jacobson nor Jan T. Gross are historians. The former is a novelist. But it is true that there were retribution by local populations against Jews after June 22, 1941 for their cooperation with the Soviet regime when it engaged in atrocities and mass deportation against the local non-Jewish population after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. It was Jews who organized anti-Polish or anti-Lithuanian pro-Soviet militias that participated in rounding up of people for arrests and deportations. They were the ones who prepared the proscription lists for the Soviet authorities. The retributions did not have anything to do with anti-semitism. The Jews as citizens of Poland or Lithuania betrayed their countries and did great harm to their non-Jewish citizens. There was not much sympathy for Jews left when the mobile SS groups arrived to round up Jews to ghettos created in smaller towns or in some cases to kill them like in Jedwabne after Germany attack USSR. germans were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.
    , @EugeneGur

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
     
    Well, some people see the earth as flat while others see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns. What does that prove except that you might have issues with your understanding?

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.
     
    True, the German Nazis had many allies in their quest for racial purity. I am not saying that nazism is restricted to Germany or Germans. There were and still are many Nazis of other nationalities. That is true that the Germans use the local talent to deal with not only the "Jewish question" but also with other issues such as the local resistance movements. Those local Nazis are also know to take the initiative on occasion or eagerly report their neighbors to the Germans. How does this absolve the German Nazis or makes them less repugnant?
    , @Wally
    see the 'Jedwabne' lie debunked here:
    Jedwabne: photographic exhibition of a fraudulent exhumation
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3108&hilit=jedwabne
    lots more:
    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=Jedwabne+&fid%5B0%5D=2
    see Zionist Christopher R. Browning's ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, demolished here:
    Reserve police battalion 101
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1422
    and:
    Christopher Browning: The State of the Evidence For the 'Final Solution'
    By Brian A. Renk

    https://codoh.com/library/document/979/?lang=en
    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com
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  101. @Twodees Partain
    It's doubtful that Hitler assessed anything calmly and deliberately after about 1943, given his use of amphetamines and Dolophine . By most accounts, he was extremely unstable and given to rages.

    No calm, deliberate assessment could lead any thinking human being into deciding that his own people deserved obliteration simply for being defeated, especially if that human being was their leader in the war. Face it; Hitler was clearly insane once the war went against him and he succumbed to drug addiction.

    Before he actually went nuts, he was pretty much fucked in the squash after the "Great War".

    And strychnine, in injections.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    I didn't know about the strychnine, but that could also help account for the rages. Valkyrie wasn't about a few disgruntled non-nazis simply wanting to replace Hitler. He really was a raving lunatic in the last few years of his life, and the men who tried to kill him were the sane ones in his government.
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  102. @jacques sheete
    The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds. As Bolshies are prone to do, they blamed them for targeting Jews, and that was a lie. They targeted Reds, many of whom happened to be Jews.

    Contrary to the lies and propaganda, non -Red Jews did well in Nazi Germany even after New York Jews declared a boycott and war against Nazis. Zionists even collaborated with Nazis.

    Zionist collaboration with Eichmann:
    Yitshaq Ben-Ami, ‘Years of wrath, Days of glory Memoirs from the Irgun’, New York, 1982

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  103. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Carroll Price

    Hitler-apologists will say he invaded Russia to defeat communism when, in fact, his grand plan was not about ideology but about biology.
     
    When Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, he had already spent the prior 10 years battling, defeating, and preventing Jewish-led Red Revolutionist gangs from doing to Germany what they had already done to neighboring Russia. Contrary to Jewish propaganda encouraging people to assume otherwise, Adolph Hitler's primary mission in life was defeating Communism where it existed. Small wonder then that a Jewish propaganda mill continues doing everything in its power to convince the world what an evil man he was, when, in reality he was the best friend the Caucasian race and Western Civilization had, and probably ever will have.

    Hitler may have hated Commies, but his plans for Eastward expansion were long-held. According to Clive Ponting, Von Ribbentrop, while visiting Churchill at his country house, Chartwell, several years before the outbreak of war, showed Churchill a map of Germany’s intended conquest of Russia, and asked what Churchill thought. Churchill is reported to have responded: “We don’t like the Russians, but we don’t hate them that much.”

    And the plan for German Eastward expansion goes back long before Hitler, in fact to Bismarck, who, when urged to found a German overseas empire, pointed to a map of Eastern Europe, saying “here is my empire.”

    Even Churchill was appalled, so it is reported, by the pointless atrocity of Dresden, muttering, after viewing photographs (or a newsreel, by some accounts) of the wreckage, “Have we become beasts?”

    But then men are beasts and always have been, and when it comes to war, they will stop at nothing to gain victory. That is the logic of natural selection.

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  104. utu says:
    @EliteComminc.
    I lived in Germany as a military dependent.

    The tragic consequences of total war strategy was visited on Dresden. But such policy is non-unique in annals of war. Nor was total war the domain of the allies.

    I get the argument here and would not deny the tragedy of total war campaigns. But that is not the same thing as genocide in targeting a unique population. Dresden was an attack that made no respecter of personal or group identity identity.

    If it had been the French who launched crusades as the Germans, then some French industrial city would have been targeted.

    Actually you are an idiot. Indiscriminate killing is worse than selective with respect to real or imaginary deserts. If somebody kills your child because this somebody thinks that your child deserves it is worse than if somebody bombs your whole house killing everybody in it just because this somebody can to it?

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    It's called total warfare. If you bomb my home, don't be shocked that i might choose to bomb your home, your car, and anything that enables you to make war to prevent you from bombing my home or anyone else's again.. In the case of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki - they were responses to acts of war by the said state.


    If however, I bomb your home for no reason other than as a test of my weapons systems: Guernica, that is something else entirely. N ow I get the contention by many that the Jews deserved because they hurt Germans, I am not sure i buy the argument, but I understand it.


    In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author's press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.
    my idiocy not withstanding.
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  105. @Wally
    Warsaw was "destroyed"? Not.

    Parts of it were attacked, being a legit military target.
    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.

    Paris? " which Hitler wanted to destroy" Proof?

    I'm sure you'll say next: 'Hitler wanted to destroy Mexico City' too.

    You have been indoctrinated, laughably so.

    www.codoh.com

    It is a mistake for me to even argue with you, so after this comment I will not bother, and indeed I will not even check back in to see if you replied, but if you really claim to be knowledgeable about World War II, surely you should be aware that the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising (a separate event from the earlier ghetto uprising). Also, while I am sure you would claim it is a myth, the story of Hitler’s (fortunately defied) order to destroy Paris is well-known.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    - The Germans destroyed whatever buildings that were necessary to uproot the rioters who had dug in.
    Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not "destroyed". Not even close.

    - So "well known" that you cannot produce the claimed 'Hitler orders' for this 'non-destruction' of Paris. Truly absurd.

    Indeed, witchcraft & sorcery were "well known".
    The list of "well known", no longer accepted 'facts' is legion.

    "One should not ask, how this mass murder was made possible. It was technically possible, because it happened. This has to be the obligatory starting-point for any historical research regarding this topic. We would just like to remind you: There is no debate regarding the existence of the gas chambers, and there can never be one."

    - endorsed by 34 "reputable historians" and published in the French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5205
     
    www.codoh.com
    , @utu

    the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising
     
    This is a very strange episode. They did it after emptying the city from all of its population. They did a lot systematic looting. And then the order was to destroy the city. It was in the fall of 1944 when Paris was already liberated and Allies were getting close to Germany. Clearly they were driven insane by their powerlessness and the looming defeat.

    BTW, people were not killed then. Only in the early stages of the 1944 Uprising in August 10's of thousands of civilians were massacred (by mostly Ukrainian and Russian SS units) in Warsaw but towards the end Germans started to behave better and gave the Poles status of military combatants so they qualified for the POW status instead of being shot.

    , @Carroll Price
    Hitler never ordered the destruction of Paris. In fact the exact opposite is true. Shortly after German forces conquered France, Hitler made a personal tour of Paris to pay tribute to Napoleon's tomb and to admire Paris' unique architecture and works of art. In addition, Hitler held the English people in high regard, and did everything in his power to avoid war between Germany and England. But true to form Churchill, who harbored a soft spot in his heart for Communist Russia would entertain no ideas about avoiding war with Germany, who in truth, served as the guardians of Western civilization against Communist hoards encroaching from the eastern front.
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  106. @EugeneGur

    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.
     
    It is interesting for a psychiatrist, perhaps. Good Germans also never saw concentrations camps or gas chambers even when they could see them from their windows. You, for example, is hard at work denying facts documented in literally tons of documents, photos, films, witness accounts, because you can find some Victor or other who, interestingly, never saw anything. if you knew anything about proof, you'd know that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because somebody saw nothing doesn't mean there was nothing to see.

    BTW you should make up your mind, and so does that Victor character - either there was no prosecution (he was married to a German woman, after all and lived happily ever after, how nice!) or prosecution was justified. He understands why Hitler prosecuted Jews, doesn't he, and, apparently, so do you.

    But if it is OK to prosecute all Jews (including newborns, I presume) for whatever crime they supposedly committed it's equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should't complain about Dresden.

    Yes, their attitude toward collective guilt and collective punishment is rather inconsistent.

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  107. Mulegino1 says:

    There is now no question on this matter. The Allies deliberately and maliciously burned Germans to death in this most horrendous war crime in all of history.

    While it is true that the Soviet troops (mostly rear echelon forces) behaved in an absolutely horrendous and barbarous manner against German civilians, the deliberate incendiary bombing of Dresden (and so many other German cities) was the product of a special and despicable kind of evil- the Cromwellian concept of murdering in the name of the Lord- who “the Lord” was in 1944-1945 is another matter entirely.

    We now know- with certainty- that the deliberate mass murder of civilians via area bombing was begun by the British under Churchill and that Hitler was resolutely opposed to such inhumane methods of warfare and only retaliated after months of pleading with the British to stop it.

    There was no “Good War.” The Second World War in Europe was fought to destroy Germany, primarily for economic and financial motives.

    The so called “Holocaust” is a cover and deflection for the abominable atrocities inflicted by the “Allies” upon the Christian peoples of Europe.

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    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
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  108. Tlc says:

    Very interesting article. But, what about the rockets der furer rained down upon London? Does that not count as ‘bombing’?

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  109. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake
    "Why do you think that Unz is such a dark hole for talking about that historic political party, Freemasonry?"

    I think that is so because such discussion always means we must talk about WASP culture as not only not conservative in any sense worth having, but that has a very long history, an indispensable history, in promoting leftist revolutions across the globe./

    The WASP Elites have been amoral, power and money-worshipping monsters of anti-Christendom revolution since before Oliver Cromwell officially allied them with Jews.

    @ an indispensable history,… leftist revolutions.

    What authors/sites do you favor?

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    • Replies: @Jake
    Favor for what?

    Authors all truly educated know? Homer, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato, Aristotle, Plutarch, Virgil, Livy, Cicero, Augustine, Aquinas, Dante, Cervantes, Shakespeare.

    The right books taught the right way prepare the soil. Ill prepared soil does not produce much, if anything other than weeds and thorns.
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  110. utu says:
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  111. EugeneGur says:
    @jacques sheete
    The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds. As Bolshies are prone to do, they blamed them for targeting Jews, and that was a lie. They targeted Reds, many of whom happened to be Jews.

    Contrary to the lies and propaganda, non -Red Jews did well in Nazi Germany even after New York Jews declared a boycott and war against Nazis. Zionists even collaborated with Nazis.

    The Nazis were forced to deal with troublemaking Reds.

    Poor nice peaceful Nazi were forced to deal with those pesky Reds that resisted them murdering everyone in sight and finally beat them to a pulp. I truly sympathize with their plight.

    Those nasty ‘Bolshies” blamed the Nazis exactly for what the Nazis are prone to do: targeting everyone they didn’t like – the Jews, the Russians, the Gypsies, red, blue, yellow, men, women , children, didn’t matter. The Nazis were murdering bastards, but how do we call those that defend them?

    Many collaborated with the Nazis. After reading comments like yours I am no longer surprised that almost the entire Europe fought on Hitler’s side: nazism is deeply ingrained into the European psyche.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Poor nice peaceful Nazi were forced to deal with those pesky Reds that resisted them
     
    You got it!

    If it were not for the Reds' decades-long and often brutal agitation to control the world, (world revolution and all that bunkum), there never would have been a Nazi, or any other, reaction to their provocations.
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  112. Sherman says:
    @jacques sheete

    If you don’t want to be burned to ashes, don’t fuck with the Jews.
     
    Doesn't work that way.

    Those backward, infantile, narcissistic, psychopathic, crackpots have a long record of gratuitous sadism and evidently plenty of them'll fuck with you and dominate you in unimaginable and ineffable ways for the cheap, transient thrills. There's a record that their own Gawd couldn't even stand 'em from the sound of it.

    The dude's due to smite the hideous parasites once again, and soon, I hope.

    PS: You dandy fopling Izzy firsters will eventually be tossed under the bus by the worst of 'em, and I'm stocking up on popcorn and hope I'm around for the show. Schadenfreude can be a muthu too.

    “Plenty of them’ll fuck with you and dominate you in unimaginable and ineffable ways for the cheap, transient thrills”.

    Being f*cked and dominated by Jews (likely a male Jew) appears to be some erotic fantasy of yours!

    I hope you were keeping your hands on the keyboard when you wrote this!

    Shalom,
    Sherm

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Being f*cked and dominated by Jews (likely a male Jew) appears to be some erotic fantasy of yours!
     
    There you go, projecting again.

    Now go wash yer hands.
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  113. utu says:
    @EugeneGur

    Interesting is that Klemperer never mentions gas chambers, even more interesting is that he writes that he understands why Hitler persecuted jews, with explanation.
     
    It is interesting for a psychiatrist, perhaps. Good Germans also never saw concentrations camps or gas chambers even when they could see them from their windows. You, for example, is hard at work denying facts documented in literally tons of documents, photos, films, witness accounts, because you can find some Victor or other who, interestingly, never saw anything. if you knew anything about proof, you'd know that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because somebody saw nothing doesn't mean there was nothing to see.

    BTW you should make up your mind, and so does that Victor character - either there was no prosecution (he was married to a German woman, after all and lived happily ever after, how nice!) or prosecution was justified. He understands why Hitler prosecuted Jews, doesn't he, and, apparently, so do you.

    But if it is OK to prosecute all Jews (including newborns, I presume) for whatever crime they supposedly committed it's equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should't complain about Dresden.

    it’s equally justifiable to punish all Germans for very real crimes, so they should’t complain about Dresden

    In the decision to bomb German cities the justification by real or imagined deeds of Germans was never used. In fact the full scope of what was going on in Bloodlands and some concentration camps was not known at that time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands

    Everybody involved was aware this was a war crime to bomb civilian populations which was devoid of military age males.

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  114. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @apollonian
    I left this comment at Hoffman's site, but of course he's too cowardly to have published:

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Hoffman Is Clueless One, Regarding Dear Unc' Adolf, satanism, Central-Banking, Etc.
    (Apollonian, 13 Feb 18)

    Hoffman tells us in his article, here, "Hitler was almost always outfoxed...." But the real question is WHAT does our Pelagian heretic, Hoffman, pretending to being Christian, Christianity being worship of TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6), know about "foxiness"?--or anything?

    For Hoffman certainly knows nothing about economics, or capitalism, or money and banking--which subjects he babbles about, as in his travesty of a book, "Usury in Christendom...," which "usury" Hoffman gives no definition or exposition for exact original meaning, failing to note "usury" actually has no definitive or specific understanding fm the ancient sources.

    For Germany was essentially attacked by the Jew-led central-banking power (see Mises.org for expo), Britain having made an offensive alliance w. Poland, Poland having threatened war w. Germany over German re-uniting w. German city of Danzig. It was Britain and France who first declared war upon Germany, never forget, beginning the second world war.

    For Germany had lost WWI, never forget, only 21 yrs earlier, Germany then dis-armed for heavy weapons, the armed forces reduced to 100,000, the nation looted by the Allied criminals, the people literally starved by the Brit. blockade into signing the Versailles Treaty and enslavement. For the Western plutocratic satanists led by Jews and "bankers" had to continue to protect, cultivate, and subsidize their latest Bolshevik monster they'd created in Russia, having mass-murdered millions of Christians, Soviet Russia the proto-type and enforcer for world gov. dictatorship they were busily constructing.

    ------------------------[END OF PART ONE; SEE BELOW FOR PART 2]---------------------

    Christianity being worship of TRUTH

    Wrong!! Christianity is the worship of DECEIT!

    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/db0_onegod.htm

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  115. utu says:
    @jilles dykstra
    If you read Elie Wiesel you can learn that even he never saw a gas chamber.
    Elie Wiesel, 'La Nuit', 1958, 2007

    As to why Klemperer writes he understood the persecutions of jews, he read an article, from memory, in an Ukrainian newspaper, where Weizmann, later first president of Israel wrote 'that if GB declared war on Germany any jew in the whole world would become a British agent'.

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
    Not, of course, the common jews in Europe, but of jews as Bernard Baruch and Frankfurter.
    Bruce Allen Murphy, ‘The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection, The Secret Political Activities of Two Supreme Court Justices’, New York, 1983

    Early in the war a jew escaped from a concentration camp in Poland, and was smuggled to the USA where het talked to Frankfurter.
    Frankfurter said to him 'I do not believe one word of what you're saying'.

    It took me years to understand why Franfurter said this, until I understood that he was one of the architects of the war, he wrote the LendLease Law.
    The understanding was in connection with another statement by Frankfurter about what the escaped jew had said 'I did not say he was lying, I said I did not believe him'.

    My conclusion, Frankfurter had never thought that Hitler would execute his 1939 threat, 'that if jews again caused a world war, they themselves might be ausgerottet'.
    I do not translate the last word, there is much debate over what it meant in 1939;

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.
    Klemperer just had trouble, much, with the Gestapo.
    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
    There are some pictures in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London,
    taken in Lithuania.

    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.

    Neither Dan Jacobson nor Jan T. Gross are historians. The former is a novelist. But it is true that there were retribution by local populations against Jews after June 22, 1941 for their cooperation with the Soviet regime when it engaged in atrocities and mass deportation against the local non-Jewish population after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. It was Jews who organized anti-Polish or anti-Lithuanian pro-Soviet militias that participated in rounding up of people for arrests and deportations. They were the ones who prepared the proscription lists for the Soviet authorities. The retributions did not have anything to do with anti-semitism. The Jews as citizens of Poland or Lithuania betrayed their countries and did great harm to their non-Jewish citizens. There was not much sympathy for Jews left when the mobile SS groups arrived to round up Jews to ghettos created in smaller towns or in some cases to kill them like in Jedwabne after Germany attack USSR. germans were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.

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    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Pity for you that I visited Lithuania, and spoke with a foreigner living there quite long, who spoke the language.
    What he said to me is in line with Jacobson, novelist or not.
    You could also read
    Lonely Planet Guide 'Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania', Nicola Williams, Debra Herrmann, Cathryn Kemp, 2003, Victoria, Australia.
    where the discusion in the Lithuanian parliament is mentioned, about restoring the ghetto.
    The question was asked something like 'must the Lithuanians again become slaves of the jews ?'.
    My earlier mentioned source told me that before WWII jews controlled the economy of Lithuania.

    You have no comment on the pictures in 'Ordinary Men', with the stories, how jews were beaten to death.
    Then there was a statement in a tv report about jews in Lithuania 'they were the better traders', and 'how they collaborated with Russians'.

    It all adds up, you see.
    The great thing about truth is that it is consistent.

    About Gross, historian or not, is it true what he writes.
    Bogdan Musial, ´Sowjetische Partisanen 1941 – 1944, Mythos und Wirklichkeit’, Paderborn 2009
    Quite interesting on how jews were hardly accepted in the resistance.

    Then there is
    Anne Applebaum, ‘Between East and West, Across the borderlands of Europe’, Londen, 1995
    where an old, Polish if I remember well, says 'Hitler did horrible things, but he delivered us from the jews'.

    On top of all this you could read
    Jakob Wassermann, 'Die Juden von Zirndorf', 1897 1999 München
    André Schwartz-Bart, 'Le Dernier des Justes', 1959, 1980 Paris
    novels, but both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.
    , @Supreme Gentleman

    germans [sic] were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.
     
    I'm reminded of an observation a Wehrmacht infantryman made in his diary during Barbarossa: "We came as liberators---of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots..."
    , @jacques sheete

    The Jews as citizens of Poland or Lithuania betrayed their countries and did great harm to their non-Jewish citizens. There was not much sympathy for Jews...
     
    That's a common theme for a lot of Eastern Europe, including, but not limited to those you mentioned plus Rumania, Hungary, and several others as well.
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  116. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally
    Laughable BS.

    As British M15 agent? Seriously?

    The Zionist 'Telegraph'. This is pure unproven fiction.

    Where is the actual German document showing this?
    Oops!
    It doesn't exist.
    Some agenda driven M15 agent merely making things up is high school hilarity.

    This is too easy.
    www.codoh.com

    I heard insulting people you don’t know is a great way of convincing people.

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  117. Wally says:
    @Marcus
    So you just call everyone you don't like as a Zionist? Typical of Neo-Nazi cowards to obfuscate their anti-semitism. Personally, I hope Israel gets wiped out by Iran

    You’re projecting, when in fact you are the coward, afraid to debate your juvenile claims.

    antisemitic: any thought or person that Jew doesn’t like.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

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  118. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark Green
    This was a much-needed reminder of a forgotten and important chapter in WWII. Thank you, Michael Hoffman.

    History, we must recall, is written by the victors. In the most egregious cases, blame is assigned exclusively to the losing side in war; even when political complexities, unintended consequences, and moral ambiguity are major forces at play. This describes WWII as well as the modern view of WWII. Today's official story boils down to this: The freedom-loving Good Guys fought and defeated the nasty evil Bad Guys. We won!

    Yet Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt all collaborated and orchestrated numerous war crimes during a preventable conflagration that could have been stopped years before Dresden was incinerated. And had a negotiated settlement been reached (Hitler wanted one) countless inmates who ended up dying of disease and starvation in German concentration camps could have been saved.

    But the glorious 'Allies' demanded Unconditional Surrender. Germany refused.

    Knowing what the British and Americans did to Germany following WWI (starvation blockade, exclusive blame and punishment imposed on Germany at the Treatise of Versailles) Hitler chose to fight on.

    Today, the blood-soaked tragedy of WWII has been boiled down to a comic book. Americans are fed a restricted diet of propagandistic, repetitive headlines with two major themes: Psychopathic Nazi Evil vs. Heroic Jewish Virtue. Little else matters. It was the 'good war'. Never again!

    Yet the wars continue. And Zio-America is starting them.

    As for historic memory, the civilian deaths at Dresen probably exceed those at Hiroshima. But Dresden gets no coverage. Its victims receive little notice or sympathy. Why the difference between Hiroshima and Dresden?

    Jews.

    Imperial Japan did not target Jews. Hitler did.

    Meanwhile, the full dimension of human death, misery and suffering during WWII has been downgraded, censored and abridged. What matters most now is The Holocaust.

    Onward Christian soldiers. On to Damascus! On to Tehran! On To Moscow!

    Onward Christian soldiers. On to Damascus! On to Tehran! On To Moscow!

    And, On to Hell!!

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  119. utu says:
    @Ivan K.

    The holocaust in Dresden, lasting two days and killing at least 100,000 people
     
    Even a dedicated, loyal fan of David Irving would have been bewildered by this claim. If the exact number is inessential, why just one highly eccentric estimate. If it is important, why leave it without a single reference or an explanation. If you know better than your readership, enlighten it, Mr. Hoffman.

    And I, too, am tired of this memorialising selectivity. In the Western mainstream media, it's the Jews Jews Jews. Among revisionist Westerners, the highlight is reserved for the Germans and only the Germans. Well, if you're so close-minded to exclude even Christians of Western outlook that were of other nationalities, let alone Asian, you'll end up on a receiving end of a same kind of close-mindedness. After all, during the war the churches were open and active throughout the Slavic world.

    And before I end, here are comments of an eyewitness and participant in the bombing of Dresden, preceded and followed by remarks from David Irving.


    David Irving, April 2009:
    "Eventually I went to and spoke to master bomber airman "Bomber" Harris.
    A great man, great commander. I know many people don’t like him. I know
    many call him a war criminal. … Bomber Harris’s told me he didn’t want
    to carry the bomb air raids either. But he had been ordered to do it. It
    was a political decision by Churchill, and himself.
    I mean, I interviewed him back in April 1962, and the book I finally
    published became a bestseller. …"
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97L_SJrPl6g) (11:12)

     

    I forwarded the above quote in my message to Freeman Dyson, who worked in the Operational Research Section (ORS) of the Royal Air Force’s Bomber Command since 1943. He responded:

    Date: June 05, 2016 5:32 PM
    Dear Ivan K.

    I am not a historian and do not claim to know all the facts. What I know comes from the official history of the RAF bombing campaign by Noble and Frankland.

    The basic strategy of Britain for fighting WW2 was fixed by the government in 1936, when the decision was made to build a big force of strategic bombers as the primary instrument for defeating Germany. Once that decision was made, everything else followed, all the way until Dresden. Neither Churchill nor Harris was responsible for the decision.
    Both of them were executing the strategy that was already decided. The person chiefly responsible for the decision was Hugh Trenchard, who was retired but still highly influential in 1936.

    The statement of Harris to David Irving was made 17 years after the war. Like many such statements by military people and politicians, it is strongly influenced by hindsight. Harris is remembering things as he wished they had been rather than as they were. His behavior during the war makes it clear that he was executing the bombing strategy with much more enthusiasm than the situation demanded. And the same can be said of Churchill.

    Yours sincerely, Freeman Dyson.
     

    I then forwarded Dyson's response to David Irving, and he responded:

    Wednesday, June 22, 2016 12:45 PM
    From: info fpp.co.uk

    That was an interesting exchange. Thank yifor sharing i with me.

    David Irving
    Inverness, Scotland (UK)
     

    There is no contradiction between what Dyson and Irving said. What is interesting is that in 1940 during the Battle of England in the phase when Germans were bombing airports to destroy RAF Churchill decided to start bombing civilian population in Germany to provoke Germans to reciprocate which they did after 2 weeks of provocations to their own detriment because that lifted the pressure off from badly beaten RAF and thus the Battle of England was lost for Germany.

    BTW: I have just discovered that my internet provider Time Warner started blocking David Irving site few days ago.

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  120. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Around jan 1 1945 Hitler indeed gave orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.
    The orders were sabotaged, or simply refused.

    No he didn’t.
    Show us these ‘Hitler orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.’
    You cannot.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
    - “holocaust historian” Raul Hilberg

    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.
    German industry, I think Speer got the order.
    Dutch sluices, inn a tv report 'Das zähme Fluten' those who sabotaged were interviewed, their trick was to to inflate the calculations for the quantity of explosives that it was more than Germany had at the time.
    As a replacement measure the sluices were opened, this was zähme Fluten, gradual flooding.
    But the Wieringermeer, in the NW, was flooded completely.
    A relative of me even went there before anything was under water in search of food.
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  121. EugeneGur says:
    @jilles dykstra
    If you read Elie Wiesel you can learn that even he never saw a gas chamber.
    Elie Wiesel, 'La Nuit', 1958, 2007

    As to why Klemperer writes he understood the persecutions of jews, he read an article, from memory, in an Ukrainian newspaper, where Weizmann, later first president of Israel wrote 'that if GB declared war on Germany any jew in the whole world would become a British agent'.

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
    Not, of course, the common jews in Europe, but of jews as Bernard Baruch and Frankfurter.
    Bruce Allen Murphy, ‘The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection, The Secret Political Activities of Two Supreme Court Justices’, New York, 1983

    Early in the war a jew escaped from a concentration camp in Poland, and was smuggled to the USA where het talked to Frankfurter.
    Frankfurter said to him 'I do not believe one word of what you're saying'.

    It took me years to understand why Franfurter said this, until I understood that he was one of the architects of the war, he wrote the LendLease Law.
    The understanding was in connection with another statement by Frankfurter about what the escaped jew had said 'I did not say he was lying, I said I did not believe him'.

    My conclusion, Frankfurter had never thought that Hitler would execute his 1939 threat, 'that if jews again caused a world war, they themselves might be ausgerottet'.
    I do not translate the last word, there is much debate over what it meant in 1939;

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.
    Klemperer just had trouble, much, with the Gestapo.
    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
    There are some pictures in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London,
    taken in Lithuania.

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.

    Well, some people see the earth as flat while others see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns. What does that prove except that you might have issues with your understanding?

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.

    True, the German Nazis had many allies in their quest for racial purity. I am not saying that nazism is restricted to Germany or Germans. There were and still are many Nazis of other nationalities. That is true that the Germans use the local talent to deal with not only the “Jewish question” but also with other issues such as the local resistance movements. Those local Nazis are also know to take the initiative on occasion or eagerly report their neighbors to the Germans. How does this absolve the German Nazis or makes them less repugnant?

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete


    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
     
    Well, some people see the earth as flat while others see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns. What does that prove except that you might have issues with your understanding?
     
    Given your obvious propensity to be suckered by old propaganda, you're no doubt one of those who see the earth as flat and who see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns.

    Here's a quote that should stimulate a few brain cells, if any.


    “… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.
    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler's Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    Murray Rothbard, Revisionism for Our Time
    Mr. Rothbard was an American Jew and an historian of the very highest caliber.
    http://mises.org/daily/2592

     

    It's a short read and should accommodate even a very short attention span.
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  122. Wally says:
    @Twodees Partain
    It's doubtful that Hitler assessed anything calmly and deliberately after about 1943, given his use of amphetamines and Dolophine . By most accounts, he was extremely unstable and given to rages.

    No calm, deliberate assessment could lead any thinking human being into deciding that his own people deserved obliteration simply for being defeated, especially if that human being was their leader in the war. Face it; Hitler was clearly insane once the war went against him and he succumbed to drug addiction.

    Before he actually went nuts, he was pretty much fucked in the squash after the "Great War".

    Got proof, or just Zionist propaganda?

    I see you you ignored Chuchill’s verifiable raging alcoholism.

    http://www.codoh.com

    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Why are you so eager to defend Hitler?
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  123. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra
    If you read Elie Wiesel you can learn that even he never saw a gas chamber.
    Elie Wiesel, 'La Nuit', 1958, 2007

    As to why Klemperer writes he understood the persecutions of jews, he read an article, from memory, in an Ukrainian newspaper, where Weizmann, later first president of Israel wrote 'that if GB declared war on Germany any jew in the whole world would become a British agent'.

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
    Not, of course, the common jews in Europe, but of jews as Bernard Baruch and Frankfurter.
    Bruce Allen Murphy, ‘The Brandeis/Frankfurter Connection, The Secret Political Activities of Two Supreme Court Justices’, New York, 1983

    Early in the war a jew escaped from a concentration camp in Poland, and was smuggled to the USA where het talked to Frankfurter.
    Frankfurter said to him 'I do not believe one word of what you're saying'.

    It took me years to understand why Franfurter said this, until I understood that he was one of the architects of the war, he wrote the LendLease Law.
    The understanding was in connection with another statement by Frankfurter about what the escaped jew had said 'I did not say he was lying, I said I did not believe him'.

    My conclusion, Frankfurter had never thought that Hitler would execute his 1939 threat, 'that if jews again caused a world war, they themselves might be ausgerottet'.
    I do not translate the last word, there is much debate over what it meant in 1939;

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.
    Klemperer just had trouble, much, with the Gestapo.
    Jan T. Gross, ‘Neighbours, The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1941’, 2003, London
    Dan Jacobson, ‘Heshels Rijk Familiekroniek’, Amsterdam 1998
    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
    There are some pictures in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London,
    taken in Lithuania.

    see the ‘Jedwabne’ lie debunked here:
    Jedwabne: photographic exhibition of a fraudulent exhumation

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3108&hilit=jedwabne

    lots more:

    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=Jedwabne+&fid%5B0%5D=2

    see Zionist Christopher R. Browning’s ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, demolished here:
    Reserve police battalion 101

    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1422

    and:
    Christopher Browning: The State of the Evidence For the ‘Final Solution’
    By Brian A. Renk

    https://codoh.com/library/document/979/?lang=en

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    I know Poles do not like the Jedbabne story.
    However, considering the attitude of Poles towards jews it, in my opinion, may well have been true.
    I did not write that I believe 'Ordinary men', just mentioned the pictures of Lithuanians beating jews to death
    I, in fact, have great doubts about the book, the Einsatzkommando's, also based on
    Léon Poliakov, 'Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs', 1951, 1974, Paris
    how groups of fifty to a hundred men massacred 40.000 jews, Poliakov mentions many examples, is a bit difficult to understand.
    Even more difficult how later special groups with special fluids destroyed all bones inn all mass graves.
    Then there is the small problem of how just some twenty of the supposed 1000 men of the Einsatzkommando's gave evidence, and appeared in Neurenberg.
    , @utu
    Ok Wally, I have read this Brian Renk of yours you linked to. He does not contest Browning work on Police Battalion 101. He also agrees that several 100's of thousands of Jews were shot by various Einsatzgruppen:

    I haven't contested the mass shootings as having occurred. I'll repeat: it's certain that several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.
     
    So, why did you link to it?
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  124. Mulegino1 says:

    Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements. The difference between the German camps and the prison industry in America is that the former were NOT factories for further criminality and recidivism, but existed primarily for the purpose of rehabilitating inmates and returning them to society to fulfill their role as productive citizens. Contrast that with the gang culture and iron pumping thug culture of high security of American prisons.

    Before 1941, the only Jews in these camps were those who were known Communists or criminals.

    After 1941, i.e., the invasion of the Soviet Union, many Jews were indeed conscripted for labor purposes and placed in camps. While there may have been many incidents of injustice involved, this was no different than what the Americans did to their own population of Japanese citizens and German aliens. The difference in conditions in the camps was due to the fact that the American hinterland was virtually untouched by the ravages of war, while the German nation was the epicenter of its destructiveness.

    The demonization of National Socialist Germany is a necessary, indispensable element for creating a tyrannical and oppressive world government based upon the social revolutionary ideas of Trotsky, the Frankfurt School and the new Transhumanist Synagogue of Satan.

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    • Replies: @Karl
    124 Mulegino 1 > Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements


    Can you show us, some examples of those who were "rehabilitated" and then went to fight in the German forces?
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  125. @Anonymous
    If you don't want to be burned to ashes, don't fuck with the Jews.

    You make the Jews sound very dangerous. Are you an Anti-Semite?

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Ever heard of neocons, AIPAC, AEI ?
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  126. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally
    Got proof, or just Zionist propaganda?

    I see you you ignored Chuchill's verifiable raging alcoholism.

    www.codoh.com

    We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.
     

    Why are you so eager to defend Hitler?

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    • Replies: @apollonian
    "Defending Hitler"?--actually it's just matter of defending TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6) in general. For didn't dear unc' Adolf stand-up for Germany and German people against Jew world order? U need to consider humanity has always hated Jew liars, monsters, and murderers like urself, eh?
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  127. As I heard it, Dresden was scheduled to coincide with the Yalta conference which was February 4-11 in order to intimidate Stalin who did not have air power. The Dresden bombing was postponed because of bad weather.

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  128. @Authenticjazzman
    No doubt horrid beyond words, war being the ultimate expression of human insanity, however the other aspect of this historic pandemonia being :

    " Wollt Ihr den totalen Krieg" . "JA" !!!

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jaz musician.

    You may include my two grandfathers out.

    Thank you.

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  129. EugeneGur says:

    Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements.

    You are a good candidate for that kind of rehabilitation.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Read
    Kai S. Schreyber (Hrsg.), ´Warum wir ADOLF HITLER wählten, Jungwähler von 1933/38 berichten’, 2001 Kiel
    on how the German streets became safe after Hitler began with cncentration camps, in 1933
    , @Mulegino1
    Don't you know how to reply directly to a comment?

    Since I am not a criminal, drug addict, public homosexual or a communist agitator, why should I need rehabilitation?

    Would such a thing not be better spent on those whose existence is not only a drag on society, but a danger to it?
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  130. @utu

    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
     
    Neither Dan Jacobson nor Jan T. Gross are historians. The former is a novelist. But it is true that there were retribution by local populations against Jews after June 22, 1941 for their cooperation with the Soviet regime when it engaged in atrocities and mass deportation against the local non-Jewish population after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. It was Jews who organized anti-Polish or anti-Lithuanian pro-Soviet militias that participated in rounding up of people for arrests and deportations. They were the ones who prepared the proscription lists for the Soviet authorities. The retributions did not have anything to do with anti-semitism. The Jews as citizens of Poland or Lithuania betrayed their countries and did great harm to their non-Jewish citizens. There was not much sympathy for Jews left when the mobile SS groups arrived to round up Jews to ghettos created in smaller towns or in some cases to kill them like in Jedwabne after Germany attack USSR. germans were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.

    Pity for you that I visited Lithuania, and spoke with a foreigner living there quite long, who spoke the language.
    What he said to me is in line with Jacobson, novelist or not.
    You could also read
    Lonely Planet Guide ‘Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania’, Nicola Williams, Debra Herrmann, Cathryn Kemp, 2003, Victoria, Australia.
    where the discusion in the Lithuanian parliament is mentioned, about restoring the ghetto.
    The question was asked something like ‘must the Lithuanians again become slaves of the jews ?’.
    My earlier mentioned source told me that before WWII jews controlled the economy of Lithuania.

    You have no comment on the pictures in ‘Ordinary Men’, with the stories, how jews were beaten to death.
    Then there was a statement in a tv report about jews in Lithuania ‘they were the better traders’, and ‘how they collaborated with Russians’.

    It all adds up, you see.
    The great thing about truth is that it is consistent.

    About Gross, historian or not, is it true what he writes.
    Bogdan Musial, ´Sowjetische Partisanen 1941 – 1944, Mythos und Wirklichkeit’, Paderborn 2009
    Quite interesting on how jews were hardly accepted in the resistance.

    Then there is
    Anne Applebaum, ‘Between East and West, Across the borderlands of Europe’, Londen, 1995
    where an old, Polish if I remember well, says ‘Hitler did horrible things, but he delivered us from the jews’.

    On top of all this you could read
    Jakob Wassermann, ‘Die Juden von Zirndorf’, 1897 1999 München
    André Schwartz-Bart, ‘Le Dernier des Justes’, 1959, 1980 Paris
    novels, but both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    ...both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.
     
    True. Many not only lived in separate communities, but those that did, did it by choice. They were not liked nor did they like anyone else, apparently.

    Talk about racial supremacy, and racial purity, look no further than the prohibition against marrying outside of the tribe.

    Furthermore, Zionism was a largely separatist (apartheid) reaction against the assimilation of successful Jews. I.e., the losers couldn't stand to see any of their own getting ahead and getting accepted by the deplorable goyim.

    The loser Jews are guilty of everything they blame others for.

    , @utu
    Listen old man, I do not know what is your argument. I know you are well read but you are not blessed with the ability to discern truth from propaganda, unfortunately. I have responded to your claim that Jews were killed "before the Germans were there." No, killing of Jews started after June 22, 1941 when Soviet occupying forces were pushed out form Baltic States and Eastern Poland. Anti-semitism is not necessary to explain the motives for killings why in some cases local populations aided and abetted Germans in killing the Jews. In most cases they were forced to participate. It was a revenge for despicable conduct and behavior of Jews under Soviet occupation when it was them who aided and abetted Soviet occupiers. Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably, but the intensity of the anti-semitism increased after September 17, 1939 when Red Army and NKVD moved into Poland and were met by official welcoming Jewish committees who very soon started hunting down Poles and making proscription lists to NKVD.
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  131. @utu
    Actually you are an idiot. Indiscriminate killing is worse than selective with respect to real or imaginary deserts. If somebody kills your child because this somebody thinks that your child deserves it is worse than if somebody bombs your whole house killing everybody in it just because this somebody can to it?

    It’s called total warfare. If you bomb my home, don’t be shocked that i might choose to bomb your home, your car, and anything that enables you to make war to prevent you from bombing my home or anyone else’s again.. In the case of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki – they were responses to acts of war by the said state.

    If however, I bomb your home for no reason other than as a test of my weapons systems: Guernica, that is something else entirely. N ow I get the contention by many that the Jews deserved because they hurt Germans, I am not sure i buy the argument, but I understand it.

    In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.
    my idiocy not withstanding.

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    • Replies: @apollonian
    "In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war."

    U're just another Jewwy liar, eh?--wasn't it Brit. and France who declared war against Germany?--Brit. and France, puppets of the Jew world order banking power, like Jew S A, which was behind them, encouraging war. Didn't Brit. make offensive alliance w. Poland against Germany in Mar 1939? And didn't Poland threaten Germany w. war if Germans moved to re-unite w. German city of Danzig? And these pt.s are besides well-known facts of Poland's illegal taking of German territory just after WWI when Germany was required to be dis-armed.
    , @jilles dykstra
    " In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. "

    You obviously know nothing about the Polish provocations meant to cause war.
    Alas Hitler took the bait.
    , @Wally
    "In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war."

    Incredibly wrong, uninformed.

    'Responsibility for WW2' https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    'Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939' https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    'Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain' https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    www.codoh.com

    , @RadicalCenter
    The people in Dresden were attacking America?
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  132. @Wally
    No he didn't.
    Show us these 'Hitler orders to destroy Paris, to flood the Netherlands with sea water, by destroying all sea sluices, and to destroy any German industry.'
    You cannot.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
    - "holocaust historian" Raul Hilberg
     
    www.codoh.com

    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.
    German industry, I think Speer got the order.
    Dutch sluices, inn a tv report ‘Das zähme Fluten’ those who sabotaged were interviewed, their trick was to to inflate the calculations for the quantity of explosives that it was more than Germany had at the time.
    As a replacement measure the sluices were opened, this was zähme Fluten, gradual flooding.
    But the Wieringermeer, in the NW, was flooded completely.
    A relative of me even went there before anything was under water in search of food.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    IOW, there are no 'Hitler orders' that you claimed.

    www.codoh.com

    , @David In TN
    "It would take me some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris."

    It was Dietrich Von Choltitz.
    , @for-the-record
    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.

    There was a well-known book (1965) about it, "Is Paris Burning?," which was subsequently made into a movie. The general was Dietrich von Choltitz (played in the film by Gert Fröbe of Goldfinger fame).

    You're wasting your time with Wally, as I am sure you are already well aware.
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  133. @EugeneGur

    Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements.
     
    You are a good candidate for that kind of rehabilitation.

    Read
    Kai S. Schreyber (Hrsg.), ´Warum wir ADOLF HITLER wählten, Jungwähler von 1933/38 berichten’, 2001 Kiel
    on how the German streets became safe after Hitler began with cncentration camps, in 1933

    Read More
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  134. @plonialmoni
    You make the Jews sound very dangerous. Are you an Anti-Semite?

    Ever heard of neocons, AIPAC, AEI ?

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  135. @EugeneGur

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.
     
    Well, some people see the earth as flat while others see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns. What does that prove except that you might have issues with your understanding?

    One more thing, antisemitism was far more intense in Poland and Lithuania than in Germany.
     
    True, the German Nazis had many allies in their quest for racial purity. I am not saying that nazism is restricted to Germany or Germans. There were and still are many Nazis of other nationalities. That is true that the Germans use the local talent to deal with not only the "Jewish question" but also with other issues such as the local resistance movements. Those local Nazis are also know to take the initiative on occasion or eagerly report their neighbors to the Germans. How does this absolve the German Nazis or makes them less repugnant?

    Great pity for you, but I see Germans as victims of jews.

    Well, some people see the earth as flat while others see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns. What does that prove except that you might have issues with your understanding?

    Given your obvious propensity to be suckered by old propaganda, you’re no doubt one of those who see the earth as flat and who see alien spaceships land daily in their lawns.

    Here’s a quote that should stimulate a few brain cells, if any.

    “… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.
    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler’s Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    Murray Rothbard, Revisionism for Our Time
    Mr. Rothbard was an American Jew and an historian of the very highest caliber.

    http://mises.org/daily/2592

    It’s a short read and should accommodate even a very short attention span.

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  136. @jilles dykstra
    And strychnine, in injections.

    I didn’t know about the strychnine, but that could also help account for the rages. Valkyrie wasn’t about a few disgruntled non-nazis simply wanting to replace Hitler. He really was a raving lunatic in the last few years of his life, and the men who tried to kill him were the sane ones in his government.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Hitler was under great stress, in any case from 1933 on.
    His doctor gave him injections with concoctions he made himself.
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  137. @anon
    Why are you so eager to defend Hitler?

    “Defending Hitler”?–actually it’s just matter of defending TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6) in general. For didn’t dear unc’ Adolf stand-up for Germany and German people against Jew world order? U need to consider humanity has always hated Jew liars, monsters, and murderers like urself, eh?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    It in my opinion it is about facts.
    It cannot be denied that in just three years time, 1933 to 1936, Germany was resurrected from Versailles.
    Unemployment was reduced from six to one million, on a population of some 44 million.
    Hunger and frozen feet, over.
    And Germans could be proud of their country again, a country with influence in the world.
    One may criticise the way in which it was done.
    , @helena
    I disagree. I think it is possible to lobby for non-censorship, and I'm grateful to those who do, without trying to resurrect an old discredited brand, which unfortunately seems to be what is happening.

    Aggregating under labels White and Nasty are own goals.

    Try, (NW) European Ethnicity and Truth to Power and we might get somewhere.
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  138. @Wally
    see the 'Jedwabne' lie debunked here:
    Jedwabne: photographic exhibition of a fraudulent exhumation
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3108&hilit=jedwabne
    lots more:
    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=Jedwabne+&fid%5B0%5D=2
    see Zionist Christopher R. Browning's ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, demolished here:
    Reserve police battalion 101
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1422
    and:
    Christopher Browning: The State of the Evidence For the 'Final Solution'
    By Brian A. Renk

    https://codoh.com/library/document/979/?lang=en
    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    I know Poles do not like the Jedbabne story.
    However, considering the attitude of Poles towards jews it, in my opinion, may well have been true.
    I did not write that I believe ‘Ordinary men’, just mentioned the pictures of Lithuanians beating jews to death
    I, in fact, have great doubts about the book, the Einsatzkommando’s, also based on
    Léon Poliakov, ‘Bréviaire de la Haine, Le IIIe Reich et les Juifs’, 1951, 1974, Paris
    how groups of fifty to a hundred men massacred 40.000 jews, Poliakov mentions many examples, is a bit difficult to understand.
    Even more difficult how later special groups with special fluids destroyed all bones inn all mass graves.
    Then there is the small problem of how just some twenty of the supposed 1000 men of the Einsatzkommando’s gave evidence, and appeared in Neurenberg.

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  139. @EliteCommInc.
    It's called total warfare. If you bomb my home, don't be shocked that i might choose to bomb your home, your car, and anything that enables you to make war to prevent you from bombing my home or anyone else's again.. In the case of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki - they were responses to acts of war by the said state.


    If however, I bomb your home for no reason other than as a test of my weapons systems: Guernica, that is something else entirely. N ow I get the contention by many that the Jews deserved because they hurt Germans, I am not sure i buy the argument, but I understand it.


    In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author's press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.
    my idiocy not withstanding.

    “In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.”

    U’re just another Jewwy liar, eh?–wasn’t it Brit. and France who declared war against Germany?–Brit. and France, puppets of the Jew world order banking power, like Jew S A, which was behind them, encouraging war. Didn’t Brit. make offensive alliance w. Poland against Germany in Mar 1939? And didn’t Poland threaten Germany w. war if Germans moved to re-unite w. German city of Danzig? And these pt.s are besides well-known facts of Poland’s illegal taking of German territory just after WWI when Germany was required to be dis-armed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    I am not going to challenge history. The British and the French agreed to protect Poland from her expansionist aims. The reality is that neither country was in a position to do so and Poland fell to the Germans and the Soviets.

    By the time we get to Poland the ambitions of Germany exceeded agreed upon limits and the only c choice to stop said ambitions was war. Before I ventured into old history courses I thought i would take a peek. Unfortunately, the problem begins before Danzig, but it did not stop there.

    https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162

    Hence the expression Germany's expansionist ambitions that exceeded, retaking old German territory from the previous conflict. Germany's constant extending the territorial demands made it clear -- only war would stop her aggression.

    https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162


    So many of these conversations are like having a chat with lawyers, who would like to remove consideration of the larger picture for a small slice to make their cake. It's referred to as fallacy of composition, failure to consider the larger components of a matter - before making conclusions. The invasion of Poland settled any doubts about German ambitions.
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  140. @jilles dykstra
    Pity for you that I visited Lithuania, and spoke with a foreigner living there quite long, who spoke the language.
    What he said to me is in line with Jacobson, novelist or not.
    You could also read
    Lonely Planet Guide 'Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania', Nicola Williams, Debra Herrmann, Cathryn Kemp, 2003, Victoria, Australia.
    where the discusion in the Lithuanian parliament is mentioned, about restoring the ghetto.
    The question was asked something like 'must the Lithuanians again become slaves of the jews ?'.
    My earlier mentioned source told me that before WWII jews controlled the economy of Lithuania.

    You have no comment on the pictures in 'Ordinary Men', with the stories, how jews were beaten to death.
    Then there was a statement in a tv report about jews in Lithuania 'they were the better traders', and 'how they collaborated with Russians'.

    It all adds up, you see.
    The great thing about truth is that it is consistent.

    About Gross, historian or not, is it true what he writes.
    Bogdan Musial, ´Sowjetische Partisanen 1941 – 1944, Mythos und Wirklichkeit’, Paderborn 2009
    Quite interesting on how jews were hardly accepted in the resistance.

    Then there is
    Anne Applebaum, ‘Between East and West, Across the borderlands of Europe’, Londen, 1995
    where an old, Polish if I remember well, says 'Hitler did horrible things, but he delivered us from the jews'.

    On top of all this you could read
    Jakob Wassermann, 'Die Juden von Zirndorf', 1897 1999 München
    André Schwartz-Bart, 'Le Dernier des Justes', 1959, 1980 Paris
    novels, but both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.

    …both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.

    True. Many not only lived in separate communities, but those that did, did it by choice. They were not liked nor did they like anyone else, apparently.

    Talk about racial supremacy, and racial purity, look no further than the prohibition against marrying outside of the tribe.

    Furthermore, Zionism was a largely separatist (apartheid) reaction against the assimilation of successful Jews. I.e., the losers couldn’t stand to see any of their own getting ahead and getting accepted by the deplorable goyim.

    The loser Jews are guilty of everything they blame others for.

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  141. @Twodees Partain
    I didn't know about the strychnine, but that could also help account for the rages. Valkyrie wasn't about a few disgruntled non-nazis simply wanting to replace Hitler. He really was a raving lunatic in the last few years of his life, and the men who tried to kill him were the sane ones in his government.

    Hitler was under great stress, in any case from 1933 on.
    His doctor gave him injections with concoctions he made himself.

    Read More
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  142. @apollonian
    "Defending Hitler"?--actually it's just matter of defending TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6) in general. For didn't dear unc' Adolf stand-up for Germany and German people against Jew world order? U need to consider humanity has always hated Jew liars, monsters, and murderers like urself, eh?

    It in my opinion it is about facts.
    It cannot be denied that in just three years time, 1933 to 1936, Germany was resurrected from Versailles.
    Unemployment was reduced from six to one million, on a population of some 44 million.
    Hunger and frozen feet, over.
    And Germans could be proud of their country again, a country with influence in the world.
    One may criticise the way in which it was done.

    Read More
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  143. @EliteCommInc.
    It's called total warfare. If you bomb my home, don't be shocked that i might choose to bomb your home, your car, and anything that enables you to make war to prevent you from bombing my home or anyone else's again.. In the case of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki - they were responses to acts of war by the said state.


    If however, I bomb your home for no reason other than as a test of my weapons systems: Guernica, that is something else entirely. N ow I get the contention by many that the Jews deserved because they hurt Germans, I am not sure i buy the argument, but I understand it.


    In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author's press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.
    my idiocy not withstanding.

    ” In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. ”

    You obviously know nothing about the Polish provocations meant to cause war.
    Alas Hitler took the bait.

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  144. Olorin says:
    @Anonymous
    If you don't want to be burned to ashes, don't fuck with the Jews.

    So you are saying “The Holocaust” (TM) is an invention–an inversion of truth if you will?

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  145. @EugeneGur

    The Jew ghetto was damaged due to the German suppression of rioting, which was legal under international law.
     
    Could you enlightened us as to which "international law" even at those damned times authorized ghettos?

    Paris? ” which Hitler wanted to destroy” Proof?
     
    I don't know what Hitler wanted and I could't care less. I know what he did - he destroyed Kiev, Kerch, Sevastopol, Stalingrad, to name just a few. He blew out magnificent suburbs of St. Petersburg: Peterhof, Pavlovsk, Tzarskoye Selo, Gatchina - everything he could lay his dirty hands on. He destroyed pre-Mongol 11-12 century churches in Great Novgorod, and this is just a small part.

    I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time.

    “I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time.”

    Yes. These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins who have ruined Caste Football.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins...
     
    Any Hitler worshipping going on here sure beats the Hell outta the Bolshie and Izzy worshipping.

    You got a problem with any of that?

    , @Wally
    Indeed, we hate Zionist lies. We love the truth

    There was Hitler with the mythological '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' and there was Hitler without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.
     
    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”

    - "holocaust historian" Raul Hilberg

    www.codoh.com
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  146. utu says:
    @Wally
    see the 'Jedwabne' lie debunked here:
    Jedwabne: photographic exhibition of a fraudulent exhumation
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3108&hilit=jedwabne
    lots more:
    https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=Jedwabne+&fid%5B0%5D=2
    see Zionist Christopher R. Browning's ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, demolished here:
    Reserve police battalion 101
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1422
    and:
    Christopher Browning: The State of the Evidence For the 'Final Solution'
    By Brian A. Renk

    https://codoh.com/library/document/979/?lang=en
    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    Ok Wally, I have read this Brian Renk of yours you linked to. He does not contest Browning work on Police Battalion 101. He also agrees that several 100′s of thousands of Jews were shot by various Einsatzgruppen:

    I haven’t contested the mass shootings as having occurred. I’ll repeat: it’s certain that several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.

    So, why did you link to it?

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    • Replies: @Wally
    Please note what you actually quoted, "people", not Jews.

    And as I have stated, non-uniformed combatants were subject to execution, per international law. That was the purpose of the Einsatzgruppen, to pursue & eliminate the illegal terrorists.
    As for Renk's "several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.", I contest that specific number as subsequent research has exposed it as wrong. But that's the way real history works. You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: 'revise'.

    The fake 'holocau$t' Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    www.codoh.com

    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    That order of magnitude (100’s K) of mass shootings is indeed realistic, and supported by actual German documentation. Just as clearly these were security measures (doubtless very excessive), and NOT part of an extermination plan. (Renk’s article is excellent, BTW.)
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  147. Mulegino1 says:
    @EugeneGur

    Germans, whether good or indifferent, saw concentration camps for what they were- essentially rehabilitation centers for anti-social elements.
     
    You are a good candidate for that kind of rehabilitation.

    Don’t you know how to reply directly to a comment?

    Since I am not a criminal, drug addict, public homosexual or a communist agitator, why should I need rehabilitation?

    Would such a thing not be better spent on those whose existence is not only a drag on society, but a danger to it?

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    • Replies: @EugeneGur

    Don’t you know how to reply directly to a comment?
     
    You are right, I do not know how to reply to comments like yours where every word is a lie and an insult to every person who has been through these "rehabilitation" camps or other horrors your ancestors unleashed. You do realize that you express the views that are Nazism pure and simple, undiluted? You are even true to your former leader list of undesirables: Jews, homosexuals, Communists.

    Could that be that the German people have learned nothing and forgotten nothing? The more I look at Germany, the more I see it that way. Sad.
    , @anon

    Since I am not a criminal, drug addict, public homosexual or a communist agitator, why should I need rehabilitation?
     
    Interesting...
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  148. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra
    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.
    German industry, I think Speer got the order.
    Dutch sluices, inn a tv report 'Das zähme Fluten' those who sabotaged were interviewed, their trick was to to inflate the calculations for the quantity of explosives that it was more than Germany had at the time.
    As a replacement measure the sluices were opened, this was zähme Fluten, gradual flooding.
    But the Wieringermeer, in the NW, was flooded completely.
    A relative of me even went there before anything was under water in search of food.

    IOW, there are no ‘Hitler orders’ that you claimed.

    http://www.codoh.com

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  149. @jilles dykstra
    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.
    German industry, I think Speer got the order.
    Dutch sluices, inn a tv report 'Das zähme Fluten' those who sabotaged were interviewed, their trick was to to inflate the calculations for the quantity of explosives that it was more than Germany had at the time.
    As a replacement measure the sluices were opened, this was zähme Fluten, gradual flooding.
    But the Wieringermeer, in the NW, was flooded completely.
    A relative of me even went there before anything was under water in search of food.

    “It would take me some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.”

    It was Dietrich Von Choltitz.

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  150. utu says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Pity for you that I visited Lithuania, and spoke with a foreigner living there quite long, who spoke the language.
    What he said to me is in line with Jacobson, novelist or not.
    You could also read
    Lonely Planet Guide 'Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania', Nicola Williams, Debra Herrmann, Cathryn Kemp, 2003, Victoria, Australia.
    where the discusion in the Lithuanian parliament is mentioned, about restoring the ghetto.
    The question was asked something like 'must the Lithuanians again become slaves of the jews ?'.
    My earlier mentioned source told me that before WWII jews controlled the economy of Lithuania.

    You have no comment on the pictures in 'Ordinary Men', with the stories, how jews were beaten to death.
    Then there was a statement in a tv report about jews in Lithuania 'they were the better traders', and 'how they collaborated with Russians'.

    It all adds up, you see.
    The great thing about truth is that it is consistent.

    About Gross, historian or not, is it true what he writes.
    Bogdan Musial, ´Sowjetische Partisanen 1941 – 1944, Mythos und Wirklichkeit’, Paderborn 2009
    Quite interesting on how jews were hardly accepted in the resistance.

    Then there is
    Anne Applebaum, ‘Between East and West, Across the borderlands of Europe’, Londen, 1995
    where an old, Polish if I remember well, says 'Hitler did horrible things, but he delivered us from the jews'.

    On top of all this you could read
    Jakob Wassermann, 'Die Juden von Zirndorf', 1897 1999 München
    André Schwartz-Bart, 'Le Dernier des Justes', 1959, 1980 Paris
    novels, but both describe how jews lived in competely separate communities, and were not liked.

    Listen old man, I do not know what is your argument. I know you are well read but you are not blessed with the ability to discern truth from propaganda, unfortunately. I have responded to your claim that Jews were killed “before the Germans were there.” No, killing of Jews started after June 22, 1941 when Soviet occupying forces were pushed out form Baltic States and Eastern Poland. Anti-semitism is not necessary to explain the motives for killings why in some cases local populations aided and abetted Germans in killing the Jews. In most cases they were forced to participate. It was a revenge for despicable conduct and behavior of Jews under Soviet occupation when it was them who aided and abetted Soviet occupiers. Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably, but the intensity of the anti-semitism increased after September 17, 1939 when Red Army and NKVD moved into Poland and were met by official welcoming Jewish committees who very soon started hunting down Poles and making proscription lists to NKVD.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    You are correct. The Russians and Ukrainians started executing the Jew communists who killed them during the famine. Glad you mentioned the Russian occupation of Eastern Poland which for some reason historians forget in favor of writing about the occupation of west Poland by the Germans.

    All during the war Polish Jews trained and prepared to take over the entire country after the war ended. A big part of their activity was tracking down Christian Poles who might be leaders when the war ended. The communist Poles, most of whom were Jew killed them whenever they found them.

    The demographic that suffered the highest percentage of deaths was the catholic priests. 95 percent were killed during the war. As both Germans and Russians seized territory, they arrrsted every priest they found.

    Reason was that the church and the priests had always been the leaders of Polish nationalism. The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939. Jews consider mentioning that fact to be anti Semitic.

    I knew a Jewish woman, now deceased, who lived in Warsaw, then in the Jewish ghetto all during the war and ended up a school teacher in San Francisco. I’ll tell her story someday on this site.
    , @helena
    Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably

    Nope. It's a trope.

    Germans were killed because they were German.
    Poles were killed because they were Pole
    Brits were killed because they were Brit
    Russ were killed because they were Russ
    , @jilles dykstra
    I indeed am old, my retirement gave me the opportunity to read a lot.
    I now know that mainstream history is mainly nonsense.

    This was clear yesterday on dutch tv, former prime minister Lubbers died.
    One of the things mentioned about what he did or said was a visit to Japan that never happened, because of the war crimes of the Japanese emperor.
    Now there were no Japanese war crimes, in the war crimes show in Japan, a Neurenberg type of show, all non USA judges voted for not guilty
    But they were the minority, and so the 'criminals' were hanged.

    What makes the assertion about the Japanese emperor's war crimes very bad is that this emperor, risking his life, in 1945 was able to bring about the Japanese capitulation.
    How many Japanese and USA lives he saved, anybody's guess.

    Likewise, mainstream WWII history is mainly nonsense.
    But I admit, it takes years to come to grips with the truth that victors write history, to this very day.

    Dutch policians now are going to acknowledge the Armenian genocide that never happened.
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  151. Wally says:
    @Anon
    The Holocaust, believe it or not, is not a major concern of mine. You and the Jews do not understand that the Holocaust, like oil reserves, is a finite resource. They are already running out of Holocaust fuel for the grievance industry.

    However, a fair understanding of history is of interest to me. The actual political battles being fought now, even more.

    By the way, in your book, was there anything wrong at all with Nazi ideology? What about policies? Concrete acts? No criticism is fair?

    The ‘Nazis’ did nothing that wasn’t being done worldwide at the time.
    recall:

    - FDR forcing Jap. – Ams. into concentration camps, stealing their possession, etc.

    - recall the worldwide dislike & criminalization of homosexuals, which BTW, there is no proof that the ‘Nazis’ killed a single one because of being gay, not one. Same for the gypsies. *

    - recall the Soviet persecution, & gulaging of countless Christians & political opponents

    * The Myth of a Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals by Jack Wikoff http://www.cwporter.com/homo.htm

    Gypsies and Homosexuals in the Camps http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1894

    homosexuals – Yad Vashem … http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1930

    The ‘homosexuals & gypsies’ canard is merely an attempt by Jews to buy votes for their laughable and impossible ’6M & gas chambers’.

    There were the ‘Nazis’ with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there were the ‘Nazis’ without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

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  152. @David In TN
    "I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time."

    Yes. These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins who have ruined Caste Football.

    These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins…

    Any Hitler worshipping going on here sure beats the Hell outta the Bolshie and Izzy worshipping.

    You got a problem with any of that?

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    • Replies: @David In TN
    So you identify yourself as one of the Hitler-worshiping cretins?

    BTW I hate the Communists and their apologists. And the hypocrites who want a wall around Israel but oppose a wall for America.
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  153. Wally says:
    @James Kabala
    It is a mistake for me to even argue with you, so after this comment I will not bother, and indeed I will not even check back in to see if you replied, but if you really claim to be knowledgeable about World War II, surely you should be aware that the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising (a separate event from the earlier ghetto uprising). Also, while I am sure you would claim it is a myth, the story of Hitler's (fortunately defied) order to destroy Paris is well-known.

    - The Germans destroyed whatever buildings that were necessary to uproot the rioters who had dug in.
    Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not “destroyed”. Not even close.

    - So “well known” that you cannot produce the claimed ‘Hitler orders’ for this ‘non-destruction’ of Paris. Truly absurd.

    Indeed, witchcraft & sorcery were “well known”.
    The list of “well known”, no longer accepted ‘facts’ is legion.

    “One should not ask, how this mass murder was made possible. It was technically possible, because it happened. This has to be the obligatory starting-point for any historical research regarding this topic. We would just like to remind you: There is no debate regarding the existence of the gas chambers, and there can never be one.”

    - endorsed by 34 “reputable historians” and published in the French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5205

    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @tango47
    "Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not “destroyed. Not even close."
    Are you really that obtuse? It seems that you are not aware of the August 1944 Warsaw uprising and its aftermath in which the Nazis spent precious resources in the fall of 1944 turning Warsaw into another Carthage. Perhaps not so surprising given that due to Hollywood, most Americans only know of the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Do you have any other source of references besides CODOH?
    , @Anon
    It wasn’t a riot, you idiot. It was Poles attempting to free their capital from foreign occupation. Do you have a problem with an occupied people doing that? Yes or no?
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  154. @Carlton Meyer
    Three points.

    1. Dresden had no military value. There were no military factories or bases, which is why it had never been bombed and was thus favored by refugees.

    2. The Allies had clearly won at this point and expected final victory in a few weeks.

    3. It doesn't matter what the Nazis had done because we are supposedly better people.

    For those unfamiliar, the British bombed at night, which was safer, but couldn't see any targets. The city was the target, which they bombed with firebombs to start fires and burn up everyone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh-KWJWRjcI

    This was clearly a war crime, as reluctantly admitted by SecDef Robert McNamara.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOCYcgOnWUM

    And this continues to this day, as the US military destroyed the Syrian city of Raqqa. Mercenaries that the USA/Israel/Saudi axis of evil paid to invade Syria had gone rogue and were relabeled as "ISIS". After lots of bombing, ISIS agreed to the the American offer and allowed these terrorists to leave Raqqa peacefully.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4KLrQKJn3c

    Americans never see this reality on their "news" networks.

    For those unfamiliar, the British bombed at night, which was safer, but couldn’t see any targets. The city was the target, which they bombed with firebombs to start fires and burn up everyone.

    I’m going to have to pull you up on this one. The RAF flew at much lower altitudes, making them more vulnerable to flak and the Luftwaffe night fighters. My uncle and his crew are buried in a Commonwealth cemetery in southern Poland. The same radar-guided Luftwaffe pilot shot down three of their squadrons’ aircraft in one night.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Good.
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  155. Wally says:
    @David In TN
    "I know you people are ignorant, and it sounds particularly ridiculous when you accuse someone else of being indoctrinated. Try reading something else besides that silly website you refer to all the time."

    Yes. These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins who have ruined Caste Football.

    Indeed, we hate Zionist lies. We love the truth

    There was Hitler with the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ and there was Hitler without the mythological ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”

    - “holocaust historian” Raul Hilberg

    http://www.codoh.com

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  156. utu says:
    @James Kabala
    It is a mistake for me to even argue with you, so after this comment I will not bother, and indeed I will not even check back in to see if you replied, but if you really claim to be knowledgeable about World War II, surely you should be aware that the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising (a separate event from the earlier ghetto uprising). Also, while I am sure you would claim it is a myth, the story of Hitler's (fortunately defied) order to destroy Paris is well-known.

    the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising

    This is a very strange episode. They did it after emptying the city from all of its population. They did a lot systematic looting. And then the order was to destroy the city. It was in the fall of 1944 when Paris was already liberated and Allies were getting close to Germany. Clearly they were driven insane by their powerlessness and the looming defeat.

    BTW, people were not killed then. Only in the early stages of the 1944 Uprising in August 10′s of thousands of civilians were massacred (by mostly Ukrainian and Russian SS units) in Warsaw but towards the end Germans started to behave better and gave the Poles status of military combatants so they qualified for the POW status instead of being shot.

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  157. Churchill, like many others, endeavored to blame Germany for being the first to saturate civilians with terror-bombs —at Guernica in Spain on behalf of Franco’s forces, and in Rotterdam, during the war with Holland.

    Firstly, a major omission from this passage: during the 1939 invasion of Poland—literally within a week of the war’s outbreak— the Luftwaffe was indiscriminately bombing Warsaw and strafing refugee columns.

    Secondly, if you read the passage including/following this quote with any attention whatsoever, you’ll see that nowhere does it actually bother to try to refute Churchill’s point that the Nazi-helmed German state pioneered the tactic of terror bombing civilians that would later be used to such terrible effect against its own population. This is of course because Churchill’s point is factually correct, and seriously undermines Hoffman’s argument.

    Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.

    This is, to say the least, an incredibly misleading statement. This is for several reasons, but most importantly, the reason that casualties from German bombing campaigns never reached the casualties of Anglo-American bombing campaigns is because Germany lacked the strategic bombing capacity and air superiority necessary to inflict those casualties. If the Luftwaffe had ever had the strength and control of the skies that Allied forces achieved by 1945, there is no reason to doubt that it would have matched, or indeed far exceeded, the casualties produced by Allied bombing campaigns.

    Consider that during the 1940-1941 period, when Germany actually did have a matter of parity in terms of aerial power with Britain, the Luftwaffe was ordered to systematically bomb British civilian population centers with the express purpose of inflicting mass civilian casualties to undercut morale/support for the government. This is for all intents and purposes exactly equivalent to the logic behind RAF/USAAF bombing of Germany. (There were actually important differences in RAF and USAAF doctrine, but since this is long enough already I won’t bother to separate the two here.)

    The reason that the Luftwaffe only (“only”) inflicted ~40,000 casualties is that it incurred unsustainable losses in the Battle of Britain and Hitler ordered the German war machine to prepare to focus on a land war with the USSR in Eastern Europe. Again, if the Luftwaffe had the resources that the Allies did by 1945, there is no reason to think, given its historical behavior, that it would not have continued to inflict mass civilian casualties unless/until the British government surrendered.

    There are many more instances of serious confusion in the article, but I’ll address those in other comments for the sake of readability.

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  158. oyy Veh.

    I understand that many would do anything to avert the blame for WWII from Germany.

    But regardless of whether Germany was baited or not, they initiated a war. And they initiated a war on several fronts that they did not have the resources to sustain.

    If others want to blame Jews, Poles, French, low IQ or the cows, that’s fine with me. The war was not about fought about Germany’s internal issues. The war was fought because of Germany’s expansionist ambitions, including but not limited to her goals of restoring an ancient Nordic belief of the superior comprised on the original peoples of the region — race.

    The tragic decimation of Dresden was intended to stop Germany’s ability to prosecute a war against other states.

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  159. Wally says:
    @utu
    Ok Wally, I have read this Brian Renk of yours you linked to. He does not contest Browning work on Police Battalion 101. He also agrees that several 100's of thousands of Jews were shot by various Einsatzgruppen:

    I haven't contested the mass shootings as having occurred. I'll repeat: it's certain that several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.
     
    So, why did you link to it?

    Please note what you actually quoted, “people”, not Jews.

    And as I have stated, non-uniformed combatants were subject to execution, per international law. That was the purpose of the Einsatzgruppen, to pursue & eliminate the illegal terrorists.
    As for Renk’s “several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.”, I contest that specific number as subsequent research has exposed it as wrong. But that’s the way real history works. You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: ‘revise’.

    The fake ‘holocau$t’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @Anon

    You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: ‘revise’.
     
    What you don’t do is throw out all the evidence you disagree with and seize on only what serves you.
    , @EugeneGur

    SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves
     
    Come to Babi Yar near Kiev where at least 80,000 Jews were murdered in 1-3 days. The bodies were thrown into a large ditch, a ravine ("yar" means a ravine in Russian) and loosely covered with earth. The machine guns were used for efficiency. You know, a machine gun bullet can cut through several bodies if people stand close. I must tell you that your ancestors - I presume we are talking about your ancestors - have developed very efficient ways of killing a large number of people and disposing of their remains. According to witnesses, the earth moved for several days, because the executioners didn't even bother to finish people off. Some were just wounded and survived by climbing out of the ditch at night.

    This is just one example; there are others. For example, in Donbass people, alive or dead, were thrown into the mine shafts. The mines are very deep in Donbass, 700-1000 meters, so the bodies, or what's left of them, are still there. Altogether about 75,000. About 15,000 perished in the only concentration camp on the Soviet Union territory, in Crimea. The bodies, or alive people at times, were thrown into deep wells. BTW, there were about 40,000 Jew in Crimea before the war - almost no one survived.

    You forget, my friend, that this wasn't that long ago. People are still alive that lived through the concentration camps, mass executions (even Germans didn't always succeed in killing everyone!), and other "scientifically impossible" events. I am old enough to remember the time when there were many such people, and they were in the prime of their lives. No matter how much you try to whitewash this, we know what happened and we know who is responsible.

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  160. Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.

    This statement is also highly misleading because there are several important instances in the Second World War where German armed forces inflicted, or were ordered to inflict, exactly the kind of sack-of-Troy destruction of a city—huge civilian casualties and destruction of its physical infrastructure and cultural monuments– that American bombers leveled on Dresden, notably:

    Warsaw after the 1944 uprising against German occupation, Leningrad during the German siege thereof from 1941-1944 and Stalingrad during the battle fought in and around it in 1942-1943. Additionally, Hitler ordered the destruction of Paris in 1944, and the destruction of much of Germany’s own infrastructure in the “Nero Order” in 1945, but thankfully subordinates refused to carry out the orders.

    As I noted above, the reason that Germany did not inflict the kind of damage on Allied cities that was inflicted on Dresden from American bombing was that it lacked the aerial strength to do so. If Germany had had that strength, it would have done so; and German land forces repeatedly inflicted similar destruction when they possessed the capacity and were given the orders to do so.

    (Note that I’m not justifying Allied bombing tactics, which I think AC Grayling persuasively argued in Among the Dead Cities were immoral and counterproductive.)

    Still more to come in further comments.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Yes, and if the Germans had the Death Star, they would have blown up Alderan.
    , @utu

    Warsaw after the 1944 uprising against German occupation, Leningrad during the German siege thereof from 1941-1944 and Stalingrad during the battle fought in and around it in 1942-1943.
     
    The issue is about killing civilians and not about just destroying cities infrastructure.

    Warsaw was destroyed starting in October 1944 by demolition teams after the surrender of the Home Army and after all civilians were evacuated. No civilians were killed then.

    Warsaw 1939, Rotterdam 1940 and Stalingrad 1942 were battlefields If Poles, Dutch or Soviets left the cities open no civilians would have been killed. According to various conventions Germans did not commit war crimes when bombing cities that they were trying capture during a siege. But bombing some far away city like Dresden or Hamburg or Tokyo was a war crime.
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  161. @jacques sheete

    These morons sound like the Hitler-worshiping cretins...
     
    Any Hitler worshipping going on here sure beats the Hell outta the Bolshie and Izzy worshipping.

    You got a problem with any of that?

    So you identify yourself as one of the Hitler-worshiping cretins?

    BTW I hate the Communists and their apologists. And the hypocrites who want a wall around Israel but oppose a wall for America.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    So you identify yourself as one of the Hitler-worshiping cretins?
     
    Read my comment. Get someone to explain it to ya in simple terms.

    BTW: Hitler hated commies too. Does that make you a Hitler worshipper?
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  162. @utu

    The last book, how any, or most Lithuanian villages, before the Germans were there, executed all their jews in the woods.
     
    Neither Dan Jacobson nor Jan T. Gross are historians. The former is a novelist. But it is true that there were retribution by local populations against Jews after June 22, 1941 for their cooperation with the Soviet regime when it engaged in atrocities and mass deportation against the local non-Jewish population after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. It was Jews who organized anti-Polish or anti-Lithuanian pro-Soviet militias that participated in rounding up of people for arrests and deportations. They were the ones who prepared the proscription lists for the Soviet authorities. The retributions did not have anything to do with anti-semitism. The Jews as citizens of Poland or Lithuania betrayed their countries and did great harm to their non-Jewish citizens. There was not much sympathy for Jews left when the mobile SS groups arrived to round up Jews to ghettos created in smaller towns or in some cases to kill them like in Jedwabne after Germany attack USSR. germans were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.

    germans [sic] were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.

    I’m reminded of an observation a Wehrmacht infantryman made in his diary during Barbarossa: “We came as liberators—of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots…”

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    • Replies: @utu

    “We came as liberators—of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots…”
     
    Yes, but it did not look that way in summer 1941. People were really happy that Soviets were chased away. Germans were engaged in burials of prisoners massacred by NKVD and in exhumations of mass graves that NKVD left behind. Photographs of these events were taken. Strangely some of them were used in the (in-)famous exhibition on Wehrmacht crimes in Germany showing Wehrmacht officers next to mass graves attributing the victims to German crimes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmachtsausstellung

    A Polish historian (Bogdan Musial) and a Hungarian historian recognized the pictures and the traveling exhibition had to be cancelled and overhauled. There was an investigation and the matter was hush-hush whitewashed. This was happening around the time of Goldhagen's book offensive in Germany as a part of another push to squeeze more money out of Germany. Can't be excluded that Israel got one extra submarine for free because of this campaign. Though Goldhagen did not get a tenure in Harvard even though some rich guy founded a special chair just for him. Perhaps this was a part of the deal: you get a submarine but Goldhagen has to go.
    , @jacques sheete

    I’m reminded of an observation a Wehrmacht infantryman made in his diary during Barbarossa: “We came as liberators—of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots…”
     
    How did a commie get into the Wehrmacht?

    an observation a Wehrmacht infantryman

     

    Sounds pretty vague to me... could it be another fake (aka BS) "quote?
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  163. tango47 says:
    @Wally
    - The Germans destroyed whatever buildings that were necessary to uproot the rioters who had dug in.
    Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not "destroyed". Not even close.

    - So "well known" that you cannot produce the claimed 'Hitler orders' for this 'non-destruction' of Paris. Truly absurd.

    Indeed, witchcraft & sorcery were "well known".
    The list of "well known", no longer accepted 'facts' is legion.

    "One should not ask, how this mass murder was made possible. It was technically possible, because it happened. This has to be the obligatory starting-point for any historical research regarding this topic. We would just like to remind you: There is no debate regarding the existence of the gas chambers, and there can never be one."

    - endorsed by 34 "reputable historians" and published in the French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5205
     
    www.codoh.com

    “Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not “destroyed. Not even close.”
    Are you really that obtuse? It seems that you are not aware of the August 1944 Warsaw uprising and its aftermath in which the Nazis spent precious resources in the fall of 1944 turning Warsaw into another Carthage. Perhaps not so surprising given that due to Hollywood, most Americans only know of the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Do you have any other source of references besides CODOH?

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    • Replies: @The King is A Fink
    Indeed. A lot of people are also unaware that the RAF and SAAF flew weapons to the Polish Home Army in Warsaw during the Warsaw airlift. My uncle was one of the hundreds of aircrew killed on these flights to Warsaw. The bombers arrived over Warsaw at night and a common theme among those that returned was the sight of the city in flames.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_airlift
     
    I'm all for honest debate, but talking out of your arse doesn't count. Wally should visit Warsaw and walk the streets, see the photos in the museums showing the destruction, or talk to some Polish people.
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  164. @jilles dykstra
    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.
    German industry, I think Speer got the order.
    Dutch sluices, inn a tv report 'Das zähme Fluten' those who sabotaged were interviewed, their trick was to to inflate the calculations for the quantity of explosives that it was more than Germany had at the time.
    As a replacement measure the sluices were opened, this was zähme Fluten, gradual flooding.
    But the Wieringermeer, in the NW, was flooded completely.
    A relative of me even went there before anything was under water in search of food.

    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.

    There was a well-known book (1965) about it, “Is Paris Burning?,” which was subsequently made into a movie. The general was Dietrich von Choltitz (played in the film by Gert Fröbe of Goldfinger fame).

    You’re wasting your time with Wally, as I am sure you are already well aware.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    I read that book. I didn’t know it was true or just endless WW2 fiction when I read it.
    , @Wally
    So again,where is your claimed 'Hitler orders' for this absurd non-destruction of Paris?

    Indeed, arguing your propaganda with someone who knows the facts, and can prove them, is a "waste of time" for the amateur hour freshman.


    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
    - "holocaust historian" Raul Hilberg
     
    www.codoh.com
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  165. @apollonian
    ------------------------------[HERE'S PART 2 TO ABOVE]-------------------------

    And yes, Hoffman, life is very much war, humans being sinners, and regardless of "Neanderthals," it's well-known method of war to threaten retaliation in kind for whatever one may complain of one's enemies, like bombing of civilians.

    So what's Hoffman's real object for this latest article of his?--just more of his usual moralistic virtue-signaling and one-upsmanship, pretending, like the Pelagian hereticalist he is, to knowing all about moralistic "virtue," lecturing others--like he evidently does for his own, poor, victimized children.

    For it's Hoffman and hubris-filled Pelagianists like him who are the real problem of our present society consumed in satanism and satanic, extreme subjectivism, pretending to what doesn't exist, like child's "good-evil" and a perfectly "free" God-like will. Hitler was actually a great hero bravely fighting this horrific and ever-expanding satanism, and he was magnificent for naming and confronting the Jew.

    But Hitler only failed for the larger cultural issue of satanism in general, founded in subjectivism, hubris, and moralism, for which Jews are the natural leaders, but themselves don't originate, only taking advantage and manipulating it, due to their natural and thematic superior collectivist cohesion and organization, for their own purposes--as we see in this day, having become masters by specific means of that amazing criminal enterprise of fiat-currency (legalized counterfeiting) and central-banking--which subject-matters Hoffman hasn't the slightest grasp or understanding.

    Go back to Brietbart!

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  166. @James Kabala
    It is a mistake for me to even argue with you, so after this comment I will not bother, and indeed I will not even check back in to see if you replied, but if you really claim to be knowledgeable about World War II, surely you should be aware that the Germans deliberately destroyed huge sections of the city as revenge after the 1944 uprising (a separate event from the earlier ghetto uprising). Also, while I am sure you would claim it is a myth, the story of Hitler's (fortunately defied) order to destroy Paris is well-known.

    Hitler never ordered the destruction of Paris. In fact the exact opposite is true. Shortly after German forces conquered France, Hitler made a personal tour of Paris to pay tribute to Napoleon’s tomb and to admire Paris’ unique architecture and works of art. In addition, Hitler held the English people in high regard, and did everything in his power to avoid war between Germany and England. But true to form Churchill, who harbored a soft spot in his heart for Communist Russia would entertain no ideas about avoiding war with Germany, who in truth, served as the guardians of Western civilization against Communist hoards encroaching from the eastern front.

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    • LOL: Alden
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  167. @apollonian
    "In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war."

    U're just another Jewwy liar, eh?--wasn't it Brit. and France who declared war against Germany?--Brit. and France, puppets of the Jew world order banking power, like Jew S A, which was behind them, encouraging war. Didn't Brit. make offensive alliance w. Poland against Germany in Mar 1939? And didn't Poland threaten Germany w. war if Germans moved to re-unite w. German city of Danzig? And these pt.s are besides well-known facts of Poland's illegal taking of German territory just after WWI when Germany was required to be dis-armed.

    I am not going to challenge history. The British and the French agreed to protect Poland from her expansionist aims. The reality is that neither country was in a position to do so and Poland fell to the Germans and the Soviets.

    By the time we get to Poland the ambitions of Germany exceeded agreed upon limits and the only c choice to stop said ambitions was war. Before I ventured into old history courses I thought i would take a peek. Unfortunately, the problem begins before Danzig, but it did not stop there.

    https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162

    Hence the expression Germany’s expansionist ambitions that exceeded, retaking old German territory from the previous conflict. Germany’s constant extending the territorial demands made it clear — only war would stop her aggression.

    https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162

    So many of these conversations are like having a chat with lawyers, who would like to remove consideration of the larger picture for a small slice to make their cake. It’s referred to as fallacy of composition, failure to consider the larger components of a matter – before making conclusions. The invasion of Poland settled any doubts about German ambitions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    Would the West's understanding of the Holocaust qualify as a fallacy of composition?
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  168. MBlanc46 says:

    Don’t start a war and your cities probably won’t be bombed.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    By your own logic:
    'Don't steal Palestinian land and there won't be attacks on Israel.

    'Responsibility for WW2' https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    'THE JUSTFICATION OF THE BOMBING OF DRESDEN?' https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=921

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    www.codoh.com

    , @jacques sheete

    Don’t start a war and your cities probably won’t be bombed.
     
    Now that's hilarious.
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  169. @tango47
    "Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not “destroyed. Not even close."
    Are you really that obtuse? It seems that you are not aware of the August 1944 Warsaw uprising and its aftermath in which the Nazis spent precious resources in the fall of 1944 turning Warsaw into another Carthage. Perhaps not so surprising given that due to Hollywood, most Americans only know of the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Do you have any other source of references besides CODOH?

    Indeed. A lot of people are also unaware that the RAF and SAAF flew weapons to the Polish Home Army in Warsaw during the Warsaw airlift. My uncle was one of the hundreds of aircrew killed on these flights to Warsaw. The bombers arrived over Warsaw at night and a common theme among those that returned was the sight of the city in flames.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_airlift

    I’m all for honest debate, but talking out of your arse doesn’t count. Wally should visit Warsaw and walk the streets, see the photos in the museums showing the destruction, or talk to some Polish people.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    I have done exactly that, thank you.

    I've seen the photos. Talked to many.
    It was like I said.
    Damage, yes. Warsaw "destroyed"? Laughable.

    Wikipedia on anything of interest to Jews? Seriously?
    It's rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    Oops.

    Sorry about your alleged "uncle", but there was a war going on.

    www.codoh.com

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  170. Wally says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    It's called total warfare. If you bomb my home, don't be shocked that i might choose to bomb your home, your car, and anything that enables you to make war to prevent you from bombing my home or anyone else's again.. In the case of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki - they were responses to acts of war by the said state.


    If however, I bomb your home for no reason other than as a test of my weapons systems: Guernica, that is something else entirely. N ow I get the contention by many that the Jews deserved because they hurt Germans, I am not sure i buy the argument, but I understand it.


    In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author's press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.
    my idiocy not withstanding.

    “In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.”

    Incredibly wrong, uninformed.

    ‘Responsibility for WW2′ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    ‘Polish Atrocities against Germans before 1. September 1939′ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7525

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    ‘Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain’ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete


    “In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author’s press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.”
     
    Incredibly wrong, uninformed.
     
    Wally, thanks for responding, correctly to that rubbish. I've learned to write off such propaganda regurgitating trolls who make such harebrained assertions. It's apparent that trying to reason with something like that is worse than a waste of time.
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  171. Alden says:
    @for-the-record
    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.

    There was a well-known book (1965) about it, "Is Paris Burning?," which was subsequently made into a movie. The general was Dietrich von Choltitz (played in the film by Gert Fröbe of Goldfinger fame).

    You're wasting your time with Wally, as I am sure you are already well aware.

    I read that book. I didn’t know it was true or just endless WW2 fiction when I read it.

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    • Replies: @for-the-record
    I read that book. I didn’t know it was true or just endless WW2 fiction when I read it.

    The book is written as a series of vignettes based on interviews with, and the written memoirs of, the people involved, on all sides, in the liberation of Paris.

    These include members of the various factions of the French Resistance, and of the Free French Forces and citizens of Paris; members of the American Armed Forces; and members of the occupying German Army.

    Researchers spent nearly three years locating survivors of the Liberation of Paris, and undertook over 800 interviews of persons in France, Germany and the United States. They also had access to Allied and German action reports, war diaries, memoirs, and official records.

    Senior Allied officers who assisted the authors included Generals Dwight D Eisenhower and Omar Bradley, and Allen Dulles (of the OSS); French interviewees included Jacques Chaban-Delmas and Henri Rol-Tanguy (of the French Resistance), Mme Leclerc (widow of Jacques Leclerc) and Alain de Boissieu (son-in-law of Charles de Gaulle; and from Germany, Dietrich von Choltitz (Commandant of the Paris garrison) and Walter Warlimont (of the German High Command).
     
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  172. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally
    - The Germans destroyed whatever buildings that were necessary to uproot the rioters who had dug in.
    Call that what you like, but Warsaw was not "destroyed". Not even close.

    - So "well known" that you cannot produce the claimed 'Hitler orders' for this 'non-destruction' of Paris. Truly absurd.

    Indeed, witchcraft & sorcery were "well known".
    The list of "well known", no longer accepted 'facts' is legion.

    "One should not ask, how this mass murder was made possible. It was technically possible, because it happened. This has to be the obligatory starting-point for any historical research regarding this topic. We would just like to remind you: There is no debate regarding the existence of the gas chambers, and there can never be one."

    - endorsed by 34 "reputable historians" and published in the French daily Le Monde on February 21, 1979

    http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5205
     
    www.codoh.com

    It wasn’t a riot, you idiot. It was Poles attempting to free their capital from foreign occupation. Do you have a problem with an occupied people doing that? Yes or no?

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    • Replies: @utu

    Do you have a problem with an occupied people doing that? Yes or no?
     
    This is a good question. People have a right to fight but whether the decision to fight is right or not it is another issue particularly when you do it in a city full of civilians. Poles miscalculated or really wanted to do a suicidal last stand for political calculations. In retrospect it was a great mistake or great crime or both. Anyway the leadership responsible for starting the uprising should have been shot after the war. 200,000 people died for nothing.

    Actually, if Germans and Hitler was smarter they would let Poles have the city and make it Stalin's problem because these Poles were as anti-Soviet as they were anti-German. Then in 1945 Stalin would have to leave a division or two to keep an eye on Warsaw instead of using them in march on Berlin. Also this Poles in Warsaw could put a strain on the alliance with Stalin. But clearly Germans were not thinking clear at this point as their pointless decision to demolish whole Warsaw after evacuating everybody from it indicates.
    , @Wally
    Call it what you will, you Zionist hick.

    I certainly support Palestinians fighting Jew occupation.
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  173. @Supreme Gentleman

    Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.
     
    This statement is also highly misleading because there are several important instances in the Second World War where German armed forces inflicted, or were ordered to inflict, exactly the kind of sack-of-Troy destruction of a city---huge civilian casualties and destruction of its physical infrastructure and cultural monuments-- that American bombers leveled on Dresden, notably:

    Warsaw after the 1944 uprising against German occupation, Leningrad during the German siege thereof from 1941-1944 and Stalingrad during the battle fought in and around it in 1942-1943. Additionally, Hitler ordered the destruction of Paris in 1944, and the destruction of much of Germany's own infrastructure in the "Nero Order" in 1945, but thankfully subordinates refused to carry out the orders.

    As I noted above, the reason that Germany did not inflict the kind of damage on Allied cities that was inflicted on Dresden from American bombing was that it lacked the aerial strength to do so. If Germany had had that strength, it would have done so; and German land forces repeatedly inflicted similar destruction when they possessed the capacity and were given the orders to do so.


    (Note that I'm not justifying Allied bombing tactics, which I think AC Grayling persuasively argued in Among the Dead Cities were immoral and counterproductive.)

    Still more to come in further comments.

    Yes, and if the Germans had the Death Star, they would have blown up Alderan.

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  174. @utu
    Ok Wally, I have read this Brian Renk of yours you linked to. He does not contest Browning work on Police Battalion 101. He also agrees that several 100's of thousands of Jews were shot by various Einsatzgruppen:

    I haven't contested the mass shootings as having occurred. I'll repeat: it's certain that several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.
     
    So, why did you link to it?

    That order of magnitude (100’s K) of mass shootings is indeed realistic, and supported by actual German documentation. Just as clearly these were security measures (doubtless very excessive), and NOT part of an extermination plan. (Renk’s article is excellent, BTW.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Hey Beefcake,


    That order of magnitude (100’s K) of mass shootings is indeed realistic, and supported by actual German documentation. Just as clearly these were security measures (doubtless very excessive), and NOT part of an extermination plan.
     
    The last part of the holohoax I let go, was this holocaust by bullets thing.

    After struggling with it for a few years, and after quite a bit of research, I've concluded that it is largely BS... with some bits of truth.

    Undoubtedly the Einsatzgruppen & other security units in the rear, in the context of the Partisanenkrieg, did in fact shoot a lot of people, including innocent folks.

    With that being said, the German documentation you mention is VERY dubious to say the least.
    The figures mentioned are ridiculously high.
    Basically, check out the chain of custody, who found them, the original German copies seem nowhere to be found.
    German historian U. Walendy criticized the reports both in terms of form and language used.
    I looked at some with a friend, and they are a mix of perfectly well written German with some 'un-German' German here and there. No time to go into details but I believe these reports were indeed found by the Allies, possibly the Soviets, and then passed on to the zamerican team led by that naturalized Jew, Ferencz. The reports were tempered with and copies made of those.
    Normally, forgeries are made based on originals, which serve as templates.

    Without those "documents", we'd have nothing, given that the dozens of Soviet "investigative" commissions found not even one mass grave close in scale to Katyn.

    An interesting bit is that in the EG story lies the foundation for the alleged systematic gassing of jews, initially in the USSR, and later in "death camps" in Poland, since they are the ones who allegedly started using Gaswagen...

    Ironic too that such mobile gas chambers are said to have first been developed by the NKVD.
    True or not, the Soviets were aware of the rumors and during the war began the propaganda that the Germans were using such vans.
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  175. Alden says:
    @utu
    Listen old man, I do not know what is your argument. I know you are well read but you are not blessed with the ability to discern truth from propaganda, unfortunately. I have responded to your claim that Jews were killed "before the Germans were there." No, killing of Jews started after June 22, 1941 when Soviet occupying forces were pushed out form Baltic States and Eastern Poland. Anti-semitism is not necessary to explain the motives for killings why in some cases local populations aided and abetted Germans in killing the Jews. In most cases they were forced to participate. It was a revenge for despicable conduct and behavior of Jews under Soviet occupation when it was them who aided and abetted Soviet occupiers. Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably, but the intensity of the anti-semitism increased after September 17, 1939 when Red Army and NKVD moved into Poland and were met by official welcoming Jewish committees who very soon started hunting down Poles and making proscription lists to NKVD.

    You are correct. The Russians and Ukrainians started executing the Jew communists who killed them during the famine. Glad you mentioned the Russian occupation of Eastern Poland which for some reason historians forget in favor of writing about the occupation of west Poland by the Germans.

    All during the war Polish Jews trained and prepared to take over the entire country after the war ended. A big part of their activity was tracking down Christian Poles who might be leaders when the war ended. The communist Poles, most of whom were Jew killed them whenever they found them.

    The demographic that suffered the highest percentage of deaths was the catholic priests. 95 percent were killed during the war. As both Germans and Russians seized territory, they arrrsted every priest they found.

    Reason was that the church and the priests had always been the leaders of Polish nationalism. The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939. Jews consider mentioning that fact to be anti Semitic.

    I knew a Jewish woman, now deceased, who lived in Warsaw, then in the Jewish ghetto all during the war and ended up a school teacher in San Francisco. I’ll tell her story someday on this site.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    "The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939. Jews consider mentioning that fact to be anti Semitic."

    The proof is where?

    www.codoh.com
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  176. utu says:
    @Supreme Gentleman

    Nothing that occurred in Guernica, Rotterdam, or for that matter London, begins to even approach the scale of the holocaust that the firebombs of the air forces of Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt inflicted on Dresden.
     
    This statement is also highly misleading because there are several important instances in the Second World War where German armed forces inflicted, or were ordered to inflict, exactly the kind of sack-of-Troy destruction of a city---huge civilian casualties and destruction of its physical infrastructure and cultural monuments-- that American bombers leveled on Dresden, notably:

    Warsaw after the 1944 uprising against German occupation, Leningrad during the German siege thereof from 1941-1944 and Stalingrad during the battle fought in and around it in 1942-1943. Additionally, Hitler ordered the destruction of Paris in 1944, and the destruction of much of Germany's own infrastructure in the "Nero Order" in 1945, but thankfully subordinates refused to carry out the orders.

    As I noted above, the reason that Germany did not inflict the kind of damage on Allied cities that was inflicted on Dresden from American bombing was that it lacked the aerial strength to do so. If Germany had had that strength, it would have done so; and German land forces repeatedly inflicted similar destruction when they possessed the capacity and were given the orders to do so.


    (Note that I'm not justifying Allied bombing tactics, which I think AC Grayling persuasively argued in Among the Dead Cities were immoral and counterproductive.)

    Still more to come in further comments.

    Warsaw after the 1944 uprising against German occupation, Leningrad during the German siege thereof from 1941-1944 and Stalingrad during the battle fought in and around it in 1942-1943.

    The issue is about killing civilians and not about just destroying cities infrastructure.

    Warsaw was destroyed starting in October 1944 by demolition teams after the surrender of the Home Army and after all civilians were evacuated. No civilians were killed then.

    Warsaw 1939, Rotterdam 1940 and Stalingrad 1942 were battlefields If Poles, Dutch or Soviets left the cities open no civilians would have been killed. According to various conventions Germans did not commit war crimes when bombing cities that they were trying capture during a siege. But bombing some far away city like Dresden or Hamburg or Tokyo was a war crime.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Nobody was committing "war crimes" by bombing cities (whether near or far) because this wasn't against the laws of war as they then stood. Even killing civilians wasn't "illegal" if it could be shown they were assisting the enemy in some way.
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  177. @Den Lille Abe
    The author is right on one thing at least: Dresden was a war crime.
    As were all the other terror bombings carried out in WWII. No one, none of any of the major participants did not, at any time, not resort to committing war crimes on an industrial level.
    War crimes committed on the highest military authority.
    There is plenty blame to go around, the victors were blameless, as are all victors.

    Yet another reason for rejecting war as an option. As a citizen of Europe, I hope we grow up soon.

    You will fight a war on your own land against Muslims, or perish or be subjugated by them. I hope that it occurs soon enough that the numbers still favor Europeans.

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  178. Mimesis says:

    This was in the aftermath of the Battle of the Bulge, the largest German offensive in the West since 1940. If you had told the average British or American soldier in Europe at that time that the Germans were beaten and the war was over, he would have thought you were crazy.

    In fact, that kind of thinking had just got a lot of men killed: General Bradley ignored warnings that the Germans were massing to attack him because he had thought the Germans were beaten and the war was over.

    How many more rabbits was Hitler going to pull out of his hat?

    The prudent and sensible attitude in February 1945 was to assume that the Germans were still highly dangerous, and that no chances were to be taken with them.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    So kill civilians and whine when enemy soldiers fight back? This is indeed the American way, witness the cowardly statements of American troops in Iraq during the 2003 invasion, the immediate bombing of civilians in Serbia during Holy Week, etc.
    , @utu
    That's is what you get when you do not leave any options for your enemies by insisting on unconditional surrender.
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  179. utu says:
    @Supreme Gentleman

    germans [sic] were viewed as liberators in Polish and Baltic states territories occupied by USSR.
     
    I'm reminded of an observation a Wehrmacht infantryman made in his diary during Barbarossa: "We came as liberators---of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots..."

    “We came as liberators—of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots…”

    Yes, but it did not look that way in summer 1941. People were really happy that Soviets were chased away. Germans were engaged in burials of prisoners massacred by NKVD and in exhumations of mass graves that NKVD left behind. Photographs of these events were taken. Strangely some of them were used in the (in-)famous exhibition on Wehrmacht crimes in Germany showing Wehrmacht officers next to mass graves attributing the victims to German crimes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmachtsausstellung

    A Polish historian (Bogdan Musial) and a Hungarian historian recognized the pictures and the traveling exhibition had to be cancelled and overhauled. There was an investigation and the matter was hush-hush whitewashed. This was happening around the time of Goldhagen’s book offensive in Germany as a part of another push to squeeze more money out of Germany. Can’t be excluded that Israel got one extra submarine for free because of this campaign. Though Goldhagen did not get a tenure in Harvard even though some rich guy founded a special chair just for him. Perhaps this was a part of the deal: you get a submarine but Goldhagen has to go.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Goldhagen is an idiot.
    Read the endnotes in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London
    Browning makes mincemeat of Goldhagen.
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  180. @Mimesis
    This was in the aftermath of the Battle of the Bulge, the largest German offensive in the West since 1940. If you had told the average British or American soldier in Europe at that time that the Germans were beaten and the war was over, he would have thought you were crazy.

    In fact, that kind of thinking had just got a lot of men killed: General Bradley ignored warnings that the Germans were massing to attack him because he had thought the Germans were beaten and the war was over.

    How many more rabbits was Hitler going to pull out of his hat?

    The prudent and sensible attitude in February 1945 was to assume that the Germans were still highly dangerous, and that no chances were to be taken with them.

    So kill civilians and whine when enemy soldiers fight back? This is indeed the American way, witness the cowardly statements of American troops in Iraq during the 2003 invasion, the immediate bombing of civilians in Serbia during Holy Week, etc.

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  181. utu says:
    @Anon
    It wasn’t a riot, you idiot. It was Poles attempting to free their capital from foreign occupation. Do you have a problem with an occupied people doing that? Yes or no?

    Do you have a problem with an occupied people doing that? Yes or no?

    This is a good question. People have a right to fight but whether the decision to fight is right or not it is another issue particularly when you do it in a city full of civilians. Poles miscalculated or really wanted to do a suicidal last stand for political calculations. In retrospect it was a great mistake or great crime or both. Anyway the leadership responsible for starting the uprising should have been shot after the war. 200,000 people died for nothing.

    Actually, if Germans and Hitler was smarter they would let Poles have the city and make it Stalin’s problem because these Poles were as anti-Soviet as they were anti-German. Then in 1945 Stalin would have to leave a division or two to keep an eye on Warsaw instead of using them in march on Berlin. Also this Poles in Warsaw could put a strain on the alliance with Stalin. But clearly Germans were not thinking clear at this point as their pointless decision to demolish whole Warsaw after evacuating everybody from it indicates.

    Read More
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  182. utu says:
    @Mimesis
    This was in the aftermath of the Battle of the Bulge, the largest German offensive in the West since 1940. If you had told the average British or American soldier in Europe at that time that the Germans were beaten and the war was over, he would have thought you were crazy.

    In fact, that kind of thinking had just got a lot of men killed: General Bradley ignored warnings that the Germans were massing to attack him because he had thought the Germans were beaten and the war was over.

    How many more rabbits was Hitler going to pull out of his hat?

    The prudent and sensible attitude in February 1945 was to assume that the Germans were still highly dangerous, and that no chances were to be taken with them.

    That’s is what you get when you do not leave any options for your enemies by insisting on unconditional surrender.

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  183. Wally says:
    @The King is A Fink
    Indeed. A lot of people are also unaware that the RAF and SAAF flew weapons to the Polish Home Army in Warsaw during the Warsaw airlift. My uncle was one of the hundreds of aircrew killed on these flights to Warsaw. The bombers arrived over Warsaw at night and a common theme among those that returned was the sight of the city in flames.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_airlift
     
    I'm all for honest debate, but talking out of your arse doesn't count. Wally should visit Warsaw and walk the streets, see the photos in the museums showing the destruction, or talk to some Polish people.

    I have done exactly that, thank you.

    I’ve seen the photos. Talked to many.
    It was like I said.
    Damage, yes. Warsaw “destroyed”? Laughable.

    Wikipedia on anything of interest to Jews? Seriously?
    It’s rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    Oops.

    Sorry about your alleged “uncle”, but there was a war going on.

    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Ninety percent of the city was destroyed.

    And again, this was a year after the Jewish revolt. The ‘44 had virtually no Jews involved in it.
    , @for-the-record
    I’ve seen the photos. Talked to many.
    It was like I said.
    Damage, yes. Warsaw “destroyed”? Laughable.


    Then here is a video that you will no doubt find laughable ("City Of Ruins; Destroyed Warsaw-Poland In 1945")

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx3aGiurRbQ

     

    I wait for your commentary telling us that:

    1. pictures are fake (colour didn't exist in 1945)

    2. some buildings are still standing, only 85% of buildings were destroyed
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  184. Wally says:
    @Anon
    It wasn’t a riot, you idiot. It was Poles attempting to free their capital from foreign occupation. Do you have a problem with an occupied people doing that? Yes or no?

    Call it what you will, you Zionist hick.

    I certainly support Palestinians fighting Jew occupation.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Then you should support Poles fighting Nazis, lest someone think you’re just someone with an axe to grind.

    A riot implies civil unrest. This was a national army fighting an unlawful occupation. Your insults show only that you know you’re lying.
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  185. @EliteCommInc.
    It's called total warfare. If you bomb my home, don't be shocked that i might choose to bomb your home, your car, and anything that enables you to make war to prevent you from bombing my home or anyone else's again.. In the case of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki - they were responses to acts of war by the said state.


    If however, I bomb your home for no reason other than as a test of my weapons systems: Guernica, that is something else entirely. N ow I get the contention by many that the Jews deserved because they hurt Germans, I am not sure i buy the argument, but I understand it.


    In the case of WWII, Germany was the aggressor and her aggression was met with aggression. And contrary to the author's press, there is a good deal of debate about the ethical use of total war.
    my idiocy not withstanding.

    The people in Dresden were attacking America?

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    As part of the axis powers, when Japan attacked the US, the US response included Japan and her axis allies. And much to Germany's chagrin that attack meant made Germany an enemy of the US. And part and parcel to destroying japan was defeating Germany Japan's ally.
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  186. @The King is A Fink

    For those unfamiliar, the British bombed at night, which was safer, but couldn’t see any targets. The city was the target, which they bombed with firebombs to start fires and burn up everyone.
     
    I'm going to have to pull you up on this one. The RAF flew at much lower altitudes, making them more vulnerable to flak and the Luftwaffe night fighters. My uncle and his crew are buried in a Commonwealth cemetery in southern Poland. The same radar-guided Luftwaffe pilot shot down three of their squadrons' aircraft in one night.

    Good.

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  187. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally
    Call it what you will, you Zionist hick.

    I certainly support Palestinians fighting Jew occupation.

    Then you should support Poles fighting Nazis, lest someone think you’re just someone with an axe to grind.

    A riot implies civil unrest. This was a national army fighting an unlawful occupation. Your insults show only that you know you’re lying.

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  188. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally
    I have done exactly that, thank you.

    I've seen the photos. Talked to many.
    It was like I said.
    Damage, yes. Warsaw "destroyed"? Laughable.

    Wikipedia on anything of interest to Jews? Seriously?
    It's rather like asking the wolf to guard the chicken coop.

    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    Oops.

    Sorry about your alleged "uncle", but there was a war going on.

    www.codoh.com

    Ninety percent of the city was destroyed.

    And again, this was a year after the Jewish revolt. The ‘44 had virtually no Jews involved in it.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    No it was not.

    The Polish Home Army of 1944 was a legit military target, damage to Warsaw in fighting them happened, no doubt.

    www.codoh.com
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  189. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally
    Please note what you actually quoted, "people", not Jews.

    And as I have stated, non-uniformed combatants were subject to execution, per international law. That was the purpose of the Einsatzgruppen, to pursue & eliminate the illegal terrorists.
    As for Renk's "several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.", I contest that specific number as subsequent research has exposed it as wrong. But that's the way real history works. You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: 'revise'.

    The fake 'holocau$t' Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    www.codoh.com

    You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: ‘revise’.

    What you don’t do is throw out all the evidence you disagree with and seize on only what serves you.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    I agree.
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  190. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Twodees Partain
    It's doubtful that Hitler assessed anything calmly and deliberately after about 1943, given his use of amphetamines and Dolophine . By most accounts, he was extremely unstable and given to rages.

    No calm, deliberate assessment could lead any thinking human being into deciding that his own people deserved obliteration simply for being defeated, especially if that human being was their leader in the war. Face it; Hitler was clearly insane once the war went against him and he succumbed to drug addiction.

    Before he actually went nuts, he was pretty much fucked in the squash after the "Great War".

    It wasn’t just the drugs. Hitler took pride in his moody and unpredictable “artistic” temperament, in contrast to the conventional rational/logical mentality of the professional soldiers and politicians around him. He was different. He knew he was different. It was why he was fuhrer.

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  191. Wally says:
    @Alden
    You are correct. The Russians and Ukrainians started executing the Jew communists who killed them during the famine. Glad you mentioned the Russian occupation of Eastern Poland which for some reason historians forget in favor of writing about the occupation of west Poland by the Germans.

    All during the war Polish Jews trained and prepared to take over the entire country after the war ended. A big part of their activity was tracking down Christian Poles who might be leaders when the war ended. The communist Poles, most of whom were Jew killed them whenever they found them.

    The demographic that suffered the highest percentage of deaths was the catholic priests. 95 percent were killed during the war. As both Germans and Russians seized territory, they arrrsted every priest they found.

    Reason was that the church and the priests had always been the leaders of Polish nationalism. The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939. Jews consider mentioning that fact to be anti Semitic.

    I knew a Jewish woman, now deceased, who lived in Warsaw, then in the Jewish ghetto all during the war and ended up a school teacher in San Francisco. I’ll tell her story someday on this site.

    “The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939. Jews consider mentioning that fact to be anti Semitic.”

    The proof is where?

    http://www.codoh.com

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Ever heard of university libraries? There is a lot of information out there you won’t find in pro Nazi websites.

    It’s one thing to be anti Israel and anti Jewish communism and anti White activism. it’s another to be a pro Nazi troll who defends everything the Germans did during the war.

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians. Just go to your nearest university library and start reading about the Polish occupation during WW2. Codoh and Wikipedia ar not the only sources of information.

    You don’t believe me? I don’t give a rat’s ass. You are not my thesis advisors.

    You want to claim the German occupation was a benign one? Go ahead, who believes your defense of every atrocity done by the Germans.
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  192. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Warsaw after the 1944 uprising against German occupation, Leningrad during the German siege thereof from 1941-1944 and Stalingrad during the battle fought in and around it in 1942-1943.
     
    The issue is about killing civilians and not about just destroying cities infrastructure.

    Warsaw was destroyed starting in October 1944 by demolition teams after the surrender of the Home Army and after all civilians were evacuated. No civilians were killed then.

    Warsaw 1939, Rotterdam 1940 and Stalingrad 1942 were battlefields If Poles, Dutch or Soviets left the cities open no civilians would have been killed. According to various conventions Germans did not commit war crimes when bombing cities that they were trying capture during a siege. But bombing some far away city like Dresden or Hamburg or Tokyo was a war crime.

    Nobody was committing “war crimes” by bombing cities (whether near or far) because this wasn’t against the laws of war as they then stood. Even killing civilians wasn’t “illegal” if it could be shown they were assisting the enemy in some way.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Then of course the Germans committed no war crimes either, and you must admit that Nuremburg was a complete farce.
    , @utu
    You went to the same war college with Lt. William Calley?
    , @utu
    International law up to 1945
    1907 Hague IV, which reaffirmed and updated Hague II (1899),[5] contains the following clauses:

    Article 25: The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited.

    Article 26: The officer in command of an attacking force must, before commencing a bombardment, except in cases of assault, do all in his power to warn the authorities.

    Article 27: In sieges and bombardments all necessary steps must be taken to spare, as far as possible, buildings dedicated to religion, art, science, or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals, and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not being used at the time for military purposes.
    It is the duty of the besieged to indicate the presence of such buildings or places by distinctive and visible signs, which shall be notified to the enemy beforehand.
     
    At the start of World War II in 1939, following an appeal by Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the neutral United States, the major European powers, including Britain and Germany, agreed not to bomb civilian targets outside combat zones: Britain agreeing provided that the other powers also refrained.

    Warsaw 1939 and Rotterdam 1940 were not outside the combat zone as the two cities were under a siege. It was the defenders who put the civilians of Warsaw and Rotterdam at risk not Germans according to the law.

    It was Britain in August 1940 who started to bomb civilian targets outside combat zones first. After circa two weeks Germany reciprocated and started bombing civilian targets in UK.
    , @jacques sheete

    . Even killing civilians wasn’t “illegal” if it could be shown they were assisting the enemy in some way.
     
    Given that a lot of the Jews that were supposedly killed in "the" holocaust because they were commies and aiding and abetting the enemy, then yer OK with "the" (supposed) holocaust?

    Now, given your argument above, tell us your stance regarding the Holodomor (the death of 7-10 million Ukrainians at the hands of Stalin's goons).
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  193. Wally says:
    @MBlanc46
    Don’t start a war and your cities probably won’t be bombed.

    By your own logic:
    ‘Don’t steal Palestinian land and there won’t be attacks on Israel.

    ‘Responsibility for WW2′ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    ‘THE JUSTFICATION OF THE BOMBING OF DRESDEN?’ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=921

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    http://www.codoh.com

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Precisely. You see how it is when you don’t apply a double standard?
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  194. Wally says:
    @for-the-record
    It would take me quite some time to find the name of the German officer who refused to destroy Paris.

    There was a well-known book (1965) about it, "Is Paris Burning?," which was subsequently made into a movie. The general was Dietrich von Choltitz (played in the film by Gert Fröbe of Goldfinger fame).

    You're wasting your time with Wally, as I am sure you are already well aware.

    So again,where is your claimed ‘Hitler orders’ for this absurd non-destruction of Paris?

    Indeed, arguing your propaganda with someone who knows the facts, and can prove them, is a “waste of time” for the amateur hour freshman.

    “we’ve often fantasized about drawing up an indictment against Adolf Hitler himself. And to put into that indictment the major charge: the Final Solution of the Jewish question in Europe, the physical annihilation of Jewry. And then it dawned upon us, what would we do? We didn’t have the evidence.”
    - “holocaust historian” Raul Hilberg

    http://www.codoh.com

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  195. @Anonymous
    Nobody was committing "war crimes" by bombing cities (whether near or far) because this wasn't against the laws of war as they then stood. Even killing civilians wasn't "illegal" if it could be shown they were assisting the enemy in some way.

    Then of course the Germans committed no war crimes either, and you must admit that Nuremburg was a complete farce.

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  196. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally
    By your own logic:
    'Don't steal Palestinian land and there won't be attacks on Israel.

    'Responsibility for WW2' https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544

    Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172

    'THE JUSTFICATION OF THE BOMBING OF DRESDEN?' https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=921

    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

    www.codoh.com

    Precisely. You see how it is when you don’t apply a double standard?

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  197. Alden says:
    @Wally
    "The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939. Jews consider mentioning that fact to be anti Semitic."

    The proof is where?

    www.codoh.com

    Ever heard of university libraries? There is a lot of information out there you won’t find in pro Nazi websites.

    It’s one thing to be anti Israel and anti Jewish communism and anti White activism. it’s another to be a pro Nazi troll who defends everything the Germans did during the war.

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians. Just go to your nearest university library and start reading about the Polish occupation during WW2. Codoh and Wikipedia ar not the only sources of information.

    You don’t believe me? I don’t give a rat’s ass. You are not my thesis advisors.

    You want to claim the German occupation was a benign one? Go ahead, who believes your defense of every atrocity done by the Germans.

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    • Agree: David In TN
    • Replies: @utu

    The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939.
     

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians.
     
    I am afraid you are incorrect. And you must have misremembered what you were taught in schools. Many priest were sent to concentration camps and many died there usually from overwork, malnutrition and disease. And yes, some were executed. The total number of Polish priest who died in concentration camps according to wiki is 1811 but personally I have some reservations about the number. Certainly there was no mass killing in October 1939 and certainly not in Auschwitz because the camp was not functioning yet in October.

    In my opinion Poland's losses during WWII are exaggerated just like Soviet losses. For various reasons right after the war it was decided/established that 3 millions Polish Jews died. To this number 3 millions of gentiles was added quite arbitrarily by Jakub Berman to make a total of 6 millions. These numbers are questionable. I will not go into the Polish Jews number but the 3 million of Polish gentiles is a demographic fiction.

    You need to open up you mind and accept a horrible truth that we were all lied and we are still being lied to. Most of the numbers that came form the Soviet block were distorted and never verified.
    , @jacques sheete

    Ever heard of university libraries? There is a lot of information out there you won’t find in pro Nazi websites.
     
    I think you meant "disinformation."

    There are few creatures more despicable or laughable than some punk with a piece of parchment who thinks that it means (s)he knows something.

    BTW, one doesn't need university schooling to understand the principle of questioning everything, especially the usual propaganda.

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  198. utu says:
    @Anonymous
    Nobody was committing "war crimes" by bombing cities (whether near or far) because this wasn't against the laws of war as they then stood. Even killing civilians wasn't "illegal" if it could be shown they were assisting the enemy in some way.

    You went to the same war college with Lt. William Calley?

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  199. utu says:
    @Alden
    Ever heard of university libraries? There is a lot of information out there you won’t find in pro Nazi websites.

    It’s one thing to be anti Israel and anti Jewish communism and anti White activism. it’s another to be a pro Nazi troll who defends everything the Germans did during the war.

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians. Just go to your nearest university library and start reading about the Polish occupation during WW2. Codoh and Wikipedia ar not the only sources of information.

    You don’t believe me? I don’t give a rat’s ass. You are not my thesis advisors.

    You want to claim the German occupation was a benign one? Go ahead, who believes your defense of every atrocity done by the Germans.

    The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939.

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians.

    I am afraid you are incorrect. And you must have misremembered what you were taught in schools. Many priest were sent to concentration camps and many died there usually from overwork, malnutrition and disease. And yes, some were executed. The total number of Polish priest who died in concentration camps according to wiki is 1811 but personally I have some reservations about the number. Certainly there was no mass killing in October 1939 and certainly not in Auschwitz because the camp was not functioning yet in October.

    In my opinion Poland’s losses during WWII are exaggerated just like Soviet losses. For various reasons right after the war it was decided/established that 3 millions Polish Jews died. To this number 3 millions of gentiles was added quite arbitrarily by Jakub Berman to make a total of 6 millions. These numbers are questionable. I will not go into the Polish Jews number but the 3 million of Polish gentiles is a demographic fiction.

    You need to open up you mind and accept a horrible truth that we were all lied and we are still being lied to. Most of the numbers that came form the Soviet block were distorted and never verified.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Yes, the numbers game is ridiculous. I have seen recently NYT articles where Polish losses were put at 3M Jews, 2.5M non-Jews. A blatant attempt to put Poles at lower status than Jews in the victims sweepstakes. And then there’s the whole “Polish death camp” thing. I wonder how the Poles like their new American buddies? Bet it works out as well as the British did for them in 1939.
    , @Alden
    I get my information from university libraries, not from the university texts and professors in classes decades ago.

    And wiki????? I don’t use wiki at all. It’s notoriously inaccurate and biased. Go ahead, use wiki if that’s the only thing to which you have access. I’ll keep using 2 of the great university libraries in the country, including the rare books sections.

    I was skeptical of what I was “taught” in high school and university anyway. And I never took any course in WW2 history at university university So I didn’t learn about the killings of priests then.

    Wiki, how can you cite that as a source?

    , @Alden
    “What you were taught in schools”????

    Are you joking?
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  200. utu says:
    @Anonymous
    Nobody was committing "war crimes" by bombing cities (whether near or far) because this wasn't against the laws of war as they then stood. Even killing civilians wasn't "illegal" if it could be shown they were assisting the enemy in some way.

    International law up to 1945
    1907 Hague IV, which reaffirmed and updated Hague II (1899),[5] contains the following clauses:

    Article 25: The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited.

    Article 26: The officer in command of an attacking force must, before commencing a bombardment, except in cases of assault, do all in his power to warn the authorities.

    Article 27: In sieges and bombardments all necessary steps must be taken to spare, as far as possible, buildings dedicated to religion, art, science, or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals, and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not being used at the time for military purposes.
    It is the duty of the besieged to indicate the presence of such buildings or places by distinctive and visible signs, which shall be notified to the enemy beforehand.

    At the start of World War II in 1939, following an appeal by Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the neutral United States, the major European powers, including Britain and Germany, agreed not to bomb civilian targets outside combat zones: Britain agreeing provided that the other powers also refrained.

    Warsaw 1939 and Rotterdam 1940 were not outside the combat zone as the two cities were under a siege. It was the defenders who put the civilians of Warsaw and Rotterdam at risk not Germans according to the law.

    It was Britain in August 1940 who started to bomb civilian targets outside combat zones first. After circa two weeks Germany reciprocated and started bombing civilian targets in UK.

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  201. helena says:
    @apollonian
    "Defending Hitler"?--actually it's just matter of defending TRUTH (= Christ, Gosp. JOHN 14:6) in general. For didn't dear unc' Adolf stand-up for Germany and German people against Jew world order? U need to consider humanity has always hated Jew liars, monsters, and murderers like urself, eh?

    I disagree. I think it is possible to lobby for non-censorship, and I’m grateful to those who do, without trying to resurrect an old discredited brand, which unfortunately seems to be what is happening.

    Aggregating under labels White and Nasty are own goals.

    Try, (NW) European Ethnicity and Truth to Power and we might get somewhere.

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  202. helena says:
    @utu
    Listen old man, I do not know what is your argument. I know you are well read but you are not blessed with the ability to discern truth from propaganda, unfortunately. I have responded to your claim that Jews were killed "before the Germans were there." No, killing of Jews started after June 22, 1941 when Soviet occupying forces were pushed out form Baltic States and Eastern Poland. Anti-semitism is not necessary to explain the motives for killings why in some cases local populations aided and abetted Germans in killing the Jews. In most cases they were forced to participate. It was a revenge for despicable conduct and behavior of Jews under Soviet occupation when it was them who aided and abetted Soviet occupiers. Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably, but the intensity of the anti-semitism increased after September 17, 1939 when Red Army and NKVD moved into Poland and were met by official welcoming Jewish committees who very soon started hunting down Poles and making proscription lists to NKVD.

    Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably

    Nope. It’s a trope.

    Germans were killed because they were German.
    Poles were killed because they were Pole
    Brits were killed because they were Brit
    Russ were killed because they were Russ

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  203. @utu
    Listen old man, I do not know what is your argument. I know you are well read but you are not blessed with the ability to discern truth from propaganda, unfortunately. I have responded to your claim that Jews were killed "before the Germans were there." No, killing of Jews started after June 22, 1941 when Soviet occupying forces were pushed out form Baltic States and Eastern Poland. Anti-semitism is not necessary to explain the motives for killings why in some cases local populations aided and abetted Germans in killing the Jews. In most cases they were forced to participate. It was a revenge for despicable conduct and behavior of Jews under Soviet occupation when it was them who aided and abetted Soviet occupiers. Was the anti-semitism a factor? Probably, but the intensity of the anti-semitism increased after September 17, 1939 when Red Army and NKVD moved into Poland and were met by official welcoming Jewish committees who very soon started hunting down Poles and making proscription lists to NKVD.

    I indeed am old, my retirement gave me the opportunity to read a lot.
    I now know that mainstream history is mainly nonsense.

    This was clear yesterday on dutch tv, former prime minister Lubbers died.
    One of the things mentioned about what he did or said was a visit to Japan that never happened, because of the war crimes of the Japanese emperor.
    Now there were no Japanese war crimes, in the war crimes show in Japan, a Neurenberg type of show, all non USA judges voted for not guilty
    But they were the minority, and so the ‘criminals’ were hanged.

    What makes the assertion about the Japanese emperor’s war crimes very bad is that this emperor, risking his life, in 1945 was able to bring about the Japanese capitulation.
    How many Japanese and USA lives he saved, anybody’s guess.

    Likewise, mainstream WWII history is mainly nonsense.
    But I admit, it takes years to come to grips with the truth that victors write history, to this very day.

    Dutch policians now are going to acknowledge the Armenian genocide that never happened.

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  204. @Alden
    I read that book. I didn’t know it was true or just endless WW2 fiction when I read it.

    I read that book. I didn’t know it was true or just endless WW2 fiction when I read it.

    The book is written as a series of vignettes based on interviews with, and the written memoirs of, the people involved, on all sides, in the liberation of Paris.

    These include members of the various factions of the French Resistance, and of the Free French Forces and citizens of Paris; members of the American Armed Forces; and members of the occupying German Army.

    Researchers spent nearly three years locating survivors of the Liberation of Paris, and undertook over 800 interviews of persons in France, Germany and the United States. They also had access to Allied and German action reports, war diaries, memoirs, and official records.

    Senior Allied officers who assisted the authors included Generals Dwight D Eisenhower and Omar Bradley, and Allen Dulles (of the OSS); French interviewees included Jacques Chaban-Delmas and Henri Rol-Tanguy (of the French Resistance), Mme Leclerc (widow of Jacques Leclerc) and Alain de Boissieu (son-in-law of Charles de Gaulle; and from Germany, Dietrich von Choltitz (Commandant of the Paris garrison) and Walter Warlimont (of the German High Command).

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Thanks for the information.
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  205. The myth about the Japanese emperor being a war criminal is dissected, in telling day by day, on many days hour by hour, how the emperor, with danger to his own life, succeeded in making Japan capitulate one can find in
    Robert J.C. Butow, ‘Japan’s Decision to Surrender’, Stanford, 1954.
    The book also is very interesting on the whole history of Japan since, say, 1930, and the USA role in causing Pearl Harbour.
    Alas nobody reads books any more, one gets the impression.

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  206. You keep talking about debate, with no name-calling. How’s that working out for you?

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  207. @utu

    “We came as liberators—of their foodstuffs, of their coats, of their boots…”
     
    Yes, but it did not look that way in summer 1941. People were really happy that Soviets were chased away. Germans were engaged in burials of prisoners massacred by NKVD and in exhumations of mass graves that NKVD left behind. Photographs of these events were taken. Strangely some of them were used in the (in-)famous exhibition on Wehrmacht crimes in Germany showing Wehrmacht officers next to mass graves attributing the victims to German crimes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmachtsausstellung

    A Polish historian (Bogdan Musial) and a Hungarian historian recognized the pictures and the traveling exhibition had to be cancelled and overhauled. There was an investigation and the matter was hush-hush whitewashed. This was happening around the time of Goldhagen's book offensive in Germany as a part of another push to squeeze more money out of Germany. Can't be excluded that Israel got one extra submarine for free because of this campaign. Though Goldhagen did not get a tenure in Harvard even though some rich guy founded a special chair just for him. Perhaps this was a part of the deal: you get a submarine but Goldhagen has to go.

    Goldhagen is an idiot.
    Read the endnotes in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London
    Browning makes mincemeat of Goldhagen.

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    • Replies: @utu
    Browning was competing with Goldhagen for the same tenure position.
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  208. @utu

    The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939.
     

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians.
     
    I am afraid you are incorrect. And you must have misremembered what you were taught in schools. Many priest were sent to concentration camps and many died there usually from overwork, malnutrition and disease. And yes, some were executed. The total number of Polish priest who died in concentration camps according to wiki is 1811 but personally I have some reservations about the number. Certainly there was no mass killing in October 1939 and certainly not in Auschwitz because the camp was not functioning yet in October.

    In my opinion Poland's losses during WWII are exaggerated just like Soviet losses. For various reasons right after the war it was decided/established that 3 millions Polish Jews died. To this number 3 millions of gentiles was added quite arbitrarily by Jakub Berman to make a total of 6 millions. These numbers are questionable. I will not go into the Polish Jews number but the 3 million of Polish gentiles is a demographic fiction.

    You need to open up you mind and accept a horrible truth that we were all lied and we are still being lied to. Most of the numbers that came form the Soviet block were distorted and never verified.

    Yes, the numbers game is ridiculous. I have seen recently NYT articles where Polish losses were put at 3M Jews, 2.5M non-Jews. A blatant attempt to put Poles at lower status than Jews in the victims sweepstakes. And then there’s the whole “Polish death camp” thing. I wonder how the Poles like their new American buddies? Bet it works out as well as the British did for them in 1939.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    I wonder how the Poles like their new American buddies?
     
    Those who rule Poland do not have a very good record. Just look at WWII. Poland did not have to get itself into such bad situation with Germany. There were better options. Czechoslovakian option was the best or even Hungarian option was better than what Poland got itself into. Or look at Warsaw Uprising 1944 decision. It was criminal to decide to fight in large city full of civilians knowing that Soviets will not help.

    Hopefully some people will sober up in Warsaw.
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  209. helena says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    I am not going to challenge history. The British and the French agreed to protect Poland from her expansionist aims. The reality is that neither country was in a position to do so and Poland fell to the Germans and the Soviets.

    By the time we get to Poland the ambitions of Germany exceeded agreed upon limits and the only c choice to stop said ambitions was war. Before I ventured into old history courses I thought i would take a peek. Unfortunately, the problem begins before Danzig, but it did not stop there.

    https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162

    Hence the expression Germany's expansionist ambitions that exceeded, retaking old German territory from the previous conflict. Germany's constant extending the territorial demands made it clear -- only war would stop her aggression.

    https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=162


    So many of these conversations are like having a chat with lawyers, who would like to remove consideration of the larger picture for a small slice to make their cake. It's referred to as fallacy of composition, failure to consider the larger components of a matter - before making conclusions. The invasion of Poland settled any doubts about German ambitions.

    Would the West’s understanding of the Holocaust qualify as a fallacy of composition?

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Whether the Holocaust was real or imagined is not relevant to the reason s the war started. Arguments about the holocaust are not central to why the war occurred.


    In fact one of the ways in which it used as a hammer of guilt is that the allied powers did not engage war on account of the holocaust.

    Dresden and other industrial city attacks were launched to prevent Germany prosecuting further expansion by force -- war was considered the only option.
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  210. @apollonian
    Liar Who Lies Backs-Up Hereticalist, Hypocrite

    What's this, "alan"?--u "can't fathom"?--well, we're not surprised as u're not too bright are u? And what?--u can't "engage" Pelagianism?--pretending to child's "good-evil"?--and u can't go to Wikipedia or use the search engine?--but who's fault is that?

    Evidently, u're soooo brainlessly incompetent as to beggar belief, eh?--and we see u're just another liar, advocating the same sort of censorship that Hoffman practices at same time he hypocritically complains about it so often as he does in his putrid passive-aggressive, pathetic, and self-pitying manner.

    But those are just my opinions, "alan," buddy, and I back them up w. substantial pts., info, and facts which u pretend are "vitriolic," liar as u are, though u're entitled to ur opinions too, eh? So people can read ur lies and my facts and see how it all reflects on ur hero, Hoffman.

    I believe that you could be more effective if you stuck to the facts and tried, as best possible, to avoid personal criticisms.

    I believe that you can agree that wide distribution of the fact-based history, and the inherent trends that are embedded within it, in a manner that can be accepted by the majority, is the logical first step in overcoming the growing oppression.

    I can see that you have some facts on your side, but your style alienates people, and plays into the anti-social narrative likely put in place to just so inoculate the majority from the truth.

    One can see a useful array of facts in the Hoffman article that could be further enhanced with more facts, to form an argument with more potential uptake.

    Read More
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  211. Kolo says:
    @Marcus
    Yes, of course. They lost to a superior civilization.

    Moron Alert!

    Read More
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  212. Alden says:
    @utu

    The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939.
     

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians.
     
    I am afraid you are incorrect. And you must have misremembered what you were taught in schools. Many priest were sent to concentration camps and many died there usually from overwork, malnutrition and disease. And yes, some were executed. The total number of Polish priest who died in concentration camps according to wiki is 1811 but personally I have some reservations about the number. Certainly there was no mass killing in October 1939 and certainly not in Auschwitz because the camp was not functioning yet in October.

    In my opinion Poland's losses during WWII are exaggerated just like Soviet losses. For various reasons right after the war it was decided/established that 3 millions Polish Jews died. To this number 3 millions of gentiles was added quite arbitrarily by Jakub Berman to make a total of 6 millions. These numbers are questionable. I will not go into the Polish Jews number but the 3 million of Polish gentiles is a demographic fiction.

    You need to open up you mind and accept a horrible truth that we were all lied and we are still being lied to. Most of the numbers that came form the Soviet block were distorted and never verified.

    I get my information from university libraries, not from the university texts and professors in classes decades ago.

    And wiki????? I don’t use wiki at all. It’s notoriously inaccurate and biased. Go ahead, use wiki if that’s the only thing to which you have access. I’ll keep using 2 of the great university libraries in the country, including the rare books sections.

    I was skeptical of what I was “taught” in high school and university anyway. And I never took any course in WW2 history at university university So I didn’t learn about the killings of priests then.

    Wiki, how can you cite that as a source?

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    So I didn’t learn about the killings of priests then.
     
    Do some research on these priests. Certainly not 5000 and not in Auschwitz and not in October 1939 as you wrote. Do not go around spouting nonsense even if it is in a good cause. Your half truths disinform and end up harming the good cause. Actually it is better to not have any causes outside of searching for the truth or fighting the lies.
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  213. Alden says:
    @for-the-record
    I read that book. I didn’t know it was true or just endless WW2 fiction when I read it.

    The book is written as a series of vignettes based on interviews with, and the written memoirs of, the people involved, on all sides, in the liberation of Paris.

    These include members of the various factions of the French Resistance, and of the Free French Forces and citizens of Paris; members of the American Armed Forces; and members of the occupying German Army.

    Researchers spent nearly three years locating survivors of the Liberation of Paris, and undertook over 800 interviews of persons in France, Germany and the United States. They also had access to Allied and German action reports, war diaries, memoirs, and official records.

    Senior Allied officers who assisted the authors included Generals Dwight D Eisenhower and Omar Bradley, and Allen Dulles (of the OSS); French interviewees included Jacques Chaban-Delmas and Henri Rol-Tanguy (of the French Resistance), Mme Leclerc (widow of Jacques Leclerc) and Alain de Boissieu (son-in-law of Charles de Gaulle; and from Germany, Dietrich von Choltitz (Commandant of the Paris garrison) and Walter Warlimont (of the German High Command).
     

    Thanks for the information.

    Read More
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  214. Alden says:
    @utu

    The first mass killings at Auschwitz were 5 thousand priests killed in October 1939.
     

    The killing of the priests is common knowledge among WW2 historians and is mentioned in almost all accounts of the Polish occupation written by non Jewish historians.
     
    I am afraid you are incorrect. And you must have misremembered what you were taught in schools. Many priest were sent to concentration camps and many died there usually from overwork, malnutrition and disease. And yes, some were executed. The total number of Polish priest who died in concentration camps according to wiki is 1811 but personally I have some reservations about the number. Certainly there was no mass killing in October 1939 and certainly not in Auschwitz because the camp was not functioning yet in October.

    In my opinion Poland's losses during WWII are exaggerated just like Soviet losses. For various reasons right after the war it was decided/established that 3 millions Polish Jews died. To this number 3 millions of gentiles was added quite arbitrarily by Jakub Berman to make a total of 6 millions. These numbers are questionable. I will not go into the Polish Jews number but the 3 million of Polish gentiles is a demographic fiction.

    You need to open up you mind and accept a horrible truth that we were all lied and we are still being lied to. Most of the numbers that came form the Soviet block were distorted and never verified.

    “What you were taught in schools”????

    Are you joking?

    Read More
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  215. utu says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Goldhagen is an idiot.
    Read the endnotes in
    Christopher R. Browning, ‘Ordinary Men, Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland’, 1992, 2001, London
    Browning makes mincemeat of Goldhagen.

    Browning was competing with Goldhagen for the same tenure position.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Read the mentioned endnote that clearly shows that Goldhagen is an idiot.
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  216. EugeneGur says:
    @Wally
    Please note what you actually quoted, "people", not Jews.

    And as I have stated, non-uniformed combatants were subject to execution, per international law. That was the purpose of the Einsatzgruppen, to pursue & eliminate the illegal terrorists.
    As for Renk's "several hundred thousand people were shot by the Einsatzgruppen.", I contest that specific number as subsequent research has exposed it as wrong. But that's the way real history works. You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: 'revise'.

    The fake 'holocau$t' Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    www.codoh.com

    SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves

    Come to Babi Yar near Kiev where at least 80,000 Jews were murdered in 1-3 days. The bodies were thrown into a large ditch, a ravine (“yar” means a ravine in Russian) and loosely covered with earth. The machine guns were used for efficiency. You know, a machine gun bullet can cut through several bodies if people stand close. I must tell you that your ancestors – I presume we are talking about your ancestors – have developed very efficient ways of killing a large number of people and disposing of their remains. According to witnesses, the earth moved for several days, because the executioners didn’t even bother to finish people off. Some were just wounded and survived by climbing out of the ditch at night.

    This is just one example; there are others. For example, in Donbass people, alive or dead, were thrown into the mine shafts. The mines are very deep in Donbass, 700-1000 meters, so the bodies, or what’s left of them, are still there. Altogether about 75,000. About 15,000 perished in the only concentration camp on the Soviet Union territory, in Crimea. The bodies, or alive people at times, were thrown into deep wells. BTW, there were about 40,000 Jew in Crimea before the war – almost no one survived.

    You forget, my friend, that this wasn’t that long ago. People are still alive that lived through the concentration camps, mass executions (even Germans didn’t always succeed in killing everyone!), and other “scientifically impossible” events. I am old enough to remember the time when there were many such people, and they were in the prime of their lives. No matter how much you try to whitewash this, we know what happened and we know who is responsible.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    So where are the allged human remains at Babi Yar which Jews claim, and claim to know exactly whee they are?
    You can't even keep the lies straight. You say 80,000 were shot & buried there, now the absurd narrative says that 34,000 were shot & buried there by the Einsatzgruppen.

    Prove to us that your fantasy 70,000 n the Donbass were shot. You're merely making up nonsense and can prove none of it.
    We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The corrupt 'holocaust' Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    www.codoh.com
    , @Wally
    In addition to my other responses, here you, the coup de grace:

    aerial photo of Babi Yar at exact time of alleged action:
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2a/d4/6d/2ad46d6c00b9e525c82848cbd2ff3d83--babi-the-germans.jpg
    nothing happening as alleged, nada, zippo

    former Einsatzgruppen Members Reject Bizarre Claims of Mass Shootings / Babi Yar, etc. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11396

    !! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! ... of
    course https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314
    also see:
    'What Happened at Babi Yar?
    Fact vs. Myth'
    Using air photos and wartime newspapers, Ukrainian writer MICHAEL NIKIFORUK attacks a few myths about a wartime atrocity. http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html
    and: ' Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments'
    http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en
    and: 'Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked' viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

    You're in way over your head.
    www.codoh.com

    , @L.K
    Troll EugeneGur:

    "Come to Babi Yar near Kiev where at least 80,000 Jews were murdered in 1-3 days.
     
    pffffhawbuhahaHAHAHAHHAHA

    Thanks for the laugh, clown.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Come to Babi Yar near Kiev

     

    Would that even be legal? I mean snooping around looking for proof of mass graves could get you labeled as a "revisionist" or "denier". A guy looking for cyanide at Auschwitz got in trouble a while back.
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  217. Wally says:
    @Anon
    Ninety percent of the city was destroyed.

    And again, this was a year after the Jewish revolt. The ‘44 had virtually no Jews involved in it.

    No it was not.

    The Polish Home Army of 1944 was a legit military target, damage to Warsaw in fighting them happened, no doubt.

    http://www.codoh.com

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    No it was not.

     

    That isn't an argument.

    The Polish Home Army of 1944 was a legit military target, damage to Warsaw in fighting them happened, no doubt.
     
    Of course it was a legitimate military target. So is the PLO.
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  218. Wally says:
    @Anon

    You adapt to newer, more empirical studies, aka: ‘revise’.
     
    What you don’t do is throw out all the evidence you disagree with and seize on only what serves you.

    I agree.

    Read More
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  219. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves
     
    Come to Babi Yar near Kiev where at least 80,000 Jews were murdered in 1-3 days. The bodies were thrown into a large ditch, a ravine ("yar" means a ravine in Russian) and loosely covered with earth. The machine guns were used for efficiency. You know, a machine gun bullet can cut through several bodies if people stand close. I must tell you that your ancestors - I presume we are talking about your ancestors - have developed very efficient ways of killing a large number of people and disposing of their remains. According to witnesses, the earth moved for several days, because the executioners didn't even bother to finish people off. Some were just wounded and survived by climbing out of the ditch at night.

    This is just one example; there are others. For example, in Donbass people, alive or dead, were thrown into the mine shafts. The mines are very deep in Donbass, 700-1000 meters, so the bodies, or what's left of them, are still there. Altogether about 75,000. About 15,000 perished in the only concentration camp on the Soviet Union territory, in Crimea. The bodies, or alive people at times, were thrown into deep wells. BTW, there were about 40,000 Jew in Crimea before the war - almost no one survived.

    You forget, my friend, that this wasn't that long ago. People are still alive that lived through the concentration camps, mass executions (even Germans didn't always succeed in killing everyone!), and other "scientifically impossible" events. I am old enough to remember the time when there were many such people, and they were in the prime of their lives. No matter how much you try to whitewash this, we know what happened and we know who is responsible.

    So where are the allged human remains at Babi Yar which Jews claim, and claim to know exactly whee they are?
    You can’t even keep the lies straight. You say 80,000 were shot & buried there, now the absurd narrative says that 34,000 were shot & buried there by the Einsatzgruppen.

    Prove to us that your fantasy 70,000 n the Donbass were shot. You’re merely making up nonsense and can prove none of it.
    We’re talking about an alleged ’6M Jews & 5M others’ … 11,000,000.
    There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

    The corrupt ‘holocaust’ Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits, so, anyone, please SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves, & remains that are claimed to exist, their locations are allegedly known.
    Is that:
    100 graves of 20,000?
    200 graves of 10,000?
    400 graves of 5,000?
    500 graves of 4,000?
    1000 graves of 2000?
    2000 graves of 1000?

    http://www.codoh.com

    Read More
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  220. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    SHOW us the actual excavations, the enormous mass graves
     
    Come to Babi Yar near Kiev where at least 80,000 Jews were murdered in 1-3 days. The bodies were thrown into a large ditch, a ravine ("yar" means a ravine in Russian) and loosely covered with earth. The machine guns were used for efficiency. You know, a machine gun bullet can cut through several bodies if people stand close. I must tell you that your ancestors - I presume we are talking about your ancestors - have developed very efficient ways of killing a large number of people and disposing of their remains. According to witnesses, the earth moved for several days, because the executioners didn't even bother to finish people off. Some were just wounded and survived by climbing out of the ditch at night.

    This is just one example; there are others. For example, in Donbass people, alive or dead, were thrown into the mine shafts. The mines are very deep in Donbass, 700-1000 meters, so the bodies, or what's left of them, are still there. Altogether about 75,000. About 15,000 perished in the only concentration camp on the Soviet Union territory, in Crimea. The bodies, or alive people at times, were thrown into deep wells. BTW, there were about 40,000 Jew in Crimea before the war - almost no one survived.

    You forget, my friend, that this wasn't that long ago. People are still alive that lived through the concentration camps, mass executions (even Germans didn't always succeed in killing everyone!), and other "scientifically impossible" events. I am old enough to remember the time when there were many such people, and they were in the prime of their lives. No matter how much you try to whitewash this, we know what happened and we know who is responsible.

    In addition to my other responses, here you, the coup de grace:

    aerial photo of Babi Yar at exact time of alleged action:nothing happening as alleged, nada, zippo

    former Einsatzgruppen Members Reject Bizarre Claims of Mass Shootings / Babi Yar, etc. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11396

    !! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! … of
    course https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314
    also see:
    ‘What Happened at Babi Yar?
    Fact vs. Myth’
    Using air photos and wartime newspapers, Ukrainian writer MICHAEL NIKIFORUK attacks a few myths about a wartime atrocity. http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html
    and: ‘ Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments’

    http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en

    and: ‘Babi Yar ‘massacre’ debunked’ viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

    You’re in way over your head.
    http://www.codoh.com

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    And even more on the fake Babi Yar action:

    Bodies at Babi Yar, John Gibbons Reporting https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302

    Read and see this hilarious & impossible communist propaganda publication demolished:
    http://oi49.tinypic.com/2rm4fit.jpg http://oi45.tinypic.com/mh7m1d.jpg http://oi46.tinypic.com/21b7uhg.jpg

    www.codoh.com

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  221. EugeneGur says:
    @Mulegino1
    Don't you know how to reply directly to a comment?

    Since I am not a criminal, drug addict, public homosexual or a communist agitator, why should I need rehabilitation?

    Would such a thing not be better spent on those whose existence is not only a drag on society, but a danger to it?

    Don’t you know how to reply directly to a comment?

    You are right, I do not know how to reply to comments like yours where every word is a lie and an insult to every person who has been through these “rehabilitation” camps or other horrors your ancestors unleashed. You do realize that you express the views that are Nazism pure and simple, undiluted? You are even true to your former leader list of undesirables: Jews, homosexuals, Communists.

    Could that be that the German people have learned nothing and forgotten nothing? The more I look at Germany, the more I see it that way. Sad.

    Read More
    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Wally
    Name calling, the last resort of the desperate.

    If you were so sure of yourself you would debate further at:
    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are laughable, scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com


    "I owe my permission to submit the Zionist plan for the final solution of the Jewish Question."
    - 'Father of [political] Zionism' Theodor Herzl, letter to the Czar, November 22, 1899.
     
    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz 'liberation':
    http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/85600.jpg
    http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/66935a.jpg
    , @jilles dykstra
    The sad truth is that even today most Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt for two world wars, and the holocaust.
    This is the basis for the disaster EU, and Merkel's detroying of Germany through mass immigration.
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  222. Wally says:
    @EugeneGur

    Don’t you know how to reply directly to a comment?
     
    You are right, I do not know how to reply to comments like yours where every word is a lie and an insult to every person who has been through these "rehabilitation" camps or other horrors your ancestors unleashed. You do realize that you express the views that are Nazism pure and simple, undiluted? You are even true to your former leader list of undesirables: Jews, homosexuals, Communists.

    Could that be that the German people have learned nothing and forgotten nothing? The more I look at Germany, the more I see it that way. Sad.

    Name calling, the last resort of the desperate.

    If you were so sure of yourself you would debate further at:
    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are laughable, scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com

    “I owe my permission to submit the Zionist plan for the final solution of the Jewish Question.”
    - ‘Father of [political] Zionism’ Theodor Herzl, letter to the Czar, November 22, 1899.

    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz ‘liberation’:http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/66935a.jpg

    Read More
    • Replies: @EugeneGur

    Name calling, the last resort of the desperate.
     
    I absolutely agree, and I am glad that you understand your true nature so perfectly.

    Nazism, on the other hand, is a scientific definition of a certain ideology, and your views fit perfectly into that definition. You like "scientific" debates, don't you? You shouldn't object to scientific definition of your own agenda, then.
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  223. @utu
    Browning was competing with Goldhagen for the same tenure position.

    Read the mentioned endnote that clearly shows that Goldhagen is an idiot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Goldhagen is not an idiot he knew exactly what he was doing and what was the purpose of his book. Obviously it was bad research but it was good propaganda to make the so-called ordinary Germans feel guilt and be more conducive to new demands form the the Holocaust industry. A similar role is played by Jan T. Gross though he was assigned to the Polish front. He produced already several books full of exaggerations and half truths. Norman Finkelstein book The Holocaust Industry was a response to Goldhagen's campaign in Germany. In this book Finkelstein predicted that Poland would be the next target. And indeed this is unfolding in front of our eyes. Jan T. Gross books served the purpose to soften up a segment of Polish society an prepare the ground for the financial demands. Some rumors claim that international Jewish organizations and Israel will be demanding $65 billions from Poland.
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  224. @EugeneGur

    Don’t you know how to reply directly to a comment?
     
    You are right, I do not know how to reply to comments like yours where every word is a lie and an insult to every person who has been through these "rehabilitation" camps or other horrors your ancestors unleashed. You do realize that you express the views that are Nazism pure and simple, undiluted? You are even true to your former leader list of undesirables: Jews, homosexuals, Communists.

    Could that be that the German people have learned nothing and forgotten nothing? The more I look at Germany, the more I see it that way. Sad.

    The sad truth is that even today most Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt for two world wars, and the holocaust.
    This is the basis for the disaster EU, and Merkel’s detroying of Germany through mass immigration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EugeneGur

    Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt
     
    I don't see that much guilt, actually. What I see is whitewashing of Nazism, denial of the crimes, and all sorts of justification including attempts to blame others (we had to; we were forced to; we were provoked; they are bad people and deserved it; etc). You yourself is a perfect example of that trend.

    Germany didn't feel the slightest compunction about supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine, the very same type of people, oftentimes direct descendants of those people, it supported 70 years ago and used to perform it dirty work. It Germany had any, I wouldn't say guilt, but any sense of decency, it would've stayed as far away from that mess as possible.

    Whatever reason moved Merkel to flood Germany with so-called refugees, it was certainly not guilt. Stupidity, perhaps, or obeying orders from the overseas master?
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  225. Wally says:
    @Wally
    In addition to my other responses, here you, the coup de grace:

    aerial photo of Babi Yar at exact time of alleged action:
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2a/d4/6d/2ad46d6c00b9e525c82848cbd2ff3d83--babi-the-germans.jpg
    nothing happening as alleged, nada, zippo

    former Einsatzgruppen Members Reject Bizarre Claims of Mass Shootings / Babi Yar, etc. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11396

    !! Excavation Result: No Enormous Human Remains as Alleged at Babi Yar !! ... of
    course https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11314
    also see:
    'What Happened at Babi Yar?
    Fact vs. Myth'
    Using air photos and wartime newspapers, Ukrainian writer MICHAEL NIKIFORUK attacks a few myths about a wartime atrocity. http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/BabiYar/Nikiforuk.html
    and: ' Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments'
    http://codoh.com/library/document/920/?lang=en
    and: 'Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked' viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41

    You're in way over your head.
    www.codoh.com

    And even more on the fake Babi Yar action:

    Bodies at Babi Yar, John Gibbons Reporting https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7302

    Read and see this hilarious & impossible communist propaganda publication demolished:http://oi45.tinypic.com/mh7m1d.jpg
    http://www.codoh.com

    Read More
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  226. @helena
    Would the West's understanding of the Holocaust qualify as a fallacy of composition?

    Whether the Holocaust was real or imagined is not relevant to the reason s the war started. Arguments about the holocaust are not central to why the war occurred.

    In fact one of the ways in which it used as a hammer of guilt is that the allied powers did not engage war on account of the holocaust.

    Dresden and other industrial city attacks were launched to prevent Germany prosecuting further expansion by force — war was considered the only option.

    Read More
    • Replies: @helena
    It was a digression I know.

    allied powers did not engage war on account of the holocaust.

    So in answer to my question; you think it would.
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  227. This is mostlikely too long. Admin may shorten it or erase it altogether
    @ everbody
    What I am writing now will upset many especially the Hitler lovers. ( in German called the ” Groefaz” – [ Groester Feldherr Aller Zeiten]- my English translation(Greatest Warlord Of All Time)[ - G(W)OAT].
    But, befor the screaming starts, think! Let us look at the time of WW I. Where was he? Not at the front inhaling poison gas,for which he alledgedly was awarded the EK first class. No, he was a draft dodger, sticking it out with his brother for months in England, who was working with his Irish wife as waiters in the Mensa in London. I have a photo copy of the employment list, I think from David Irvings website. Check it out.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066155/Hitler-spent-months-living-Liverpool-flat-later-destroyed-Luftwaffe.html

    While the fighting and dying went on at the front, he wrote a postcard to his :” I wish I could be with you, but my dentist has just pulled 18 (eightteen) teeth”!LOL. (Source: Der Spiegel, with copy) After that he was stationed at a canonier bataillion near Munich. He was recommended for the EK1 by a Capain Guthmann.
    His coup attempt in Munich in the 20s failed. 17/18 of his died in a hail of bullets while WW I distinguished General -Erich Friedrich Wilhelm Ritter von Ludendorff- (Wiki) stoically marched on. Where was the EK 1 hero? He sought refuge with the communists! This is still baffeling the Churchill biographer Ian Kershaw, and a lot of other people. The police found him 3 days later with his good friend Hanfstengel (translated Hennopstem), who was an NSDAP member of the first hour. Later he became an advisor to Pres Rooselt! LOL.
    The courts condemmed him to 5 years in prison, where he is said to have written MEIN KAMPF. I have the book since 50 years. I managed 18 pages of BS. Then I put it aside. Simple German, Jews, banks and living space in the East. Allready after 9 MONTHS he was let out! Nobody really knows why, apart from those that organised it. Interestingly a few months back a German History Prof, teaching in a “town” Aberdeen, South Africa, a town of 7.2 K inhabitants, found in the local library a much EARLIER edition of Mein Kampf! In it “he”(LOL) appearently wrote to become the Fuehrer of Germany! (source: Der Spiegel)
    Fast forward. In the Munich Hofbraeukeller, he regularly ranted on for hours on end to a full house. However, one day he cut his speeches short and left very early. That was the day when shortly after a bomb exploded planted behind the chimney where he usually stood. 8 people were killed. That lucky escape was similar to the biggest jackpot win of all time! The assessin was a Georg Elser, also named Eller. He was caught and incarcerated in so called protective custody! Stauffenberg was shot, others hung on piano wires, Rommel had to commit suicide. Mr Elser/Eller had three rooms in prison, regular barber visits, free access to the prison brothel , decent food ect.
    Check Wiki
    Excerpt:

    [MORE]

    Shortly before the war ended Elser was shot. Dead people don’t talk.
    After he had become Chancellor ( with the help of manipulated election results), Hindenburg had refused twice to sign the “paper”,he started his attack on Jews, bankers etc. In one of his speeches he declared that the Jews would be “ausgerotted”= exterminated. The meaning of this word in this context meant exactly that: exterminated. Is anyone telling me that this man -a goy-could have gotten away with this in a country where jews were still in high places, in the juris prudence, finances, science, a n d the cultural life of Germany without having to face any serious consequences? Noways!
    Let’s have a short look at his military decisions.
    Dunkirk! The war was finished at Dunkirk. The G(W)OAT gave the halt order. His Leibstandarte, Waffen-SS, his spersonal division, under Sepp Dietrich, ignored the order and pressed on. He was threatened with a court marshall if he wouldn’t obey. Whilst the evacuation of the British expeditionary forces carried on, Dietrich was sitting on his hands waiting. Genral Blumentritt said afterwards: ‘We then had to listen to a long tirade about the importance of the British empire’ etc. A country-England- that had declared war on Germany was important? That’s a joke.
    Battle of Brittain. Germany lost some 2K planes, England 1,7 K. Number of pilots killed on both sides unknown. The battle then fizzled out. Fighter ace Genral Galland asked the G(W)OAT. Why? Nothing has been decided yet. His answer: the battle was only the”camouflage” of the build up to Barbarossa. A camouflage to hide a frontline of 2900 km? Nobody could see what was going on? LOL. He wanted ‘living space in the east’? The man was actually incabable of reading a map. Russia, 17 Million sqkm. If Gerfmany ( a fly shit on the map) had won this greatest slaughter of all time, placing 1 soldier on every 3 cubic km to guard the conquered ground?
    With 50 km in front of Moscow, came another halt order. He decided the supply line is too long. Thne troops seeing the onion towers of Moscow with their bare eyes, he realised the supply line was too long? There the spear tip of the panzers sat again on their hands waiting whilst Stalin and his crew had their bags already packed.
    Stalingrad. It is an accepted fact that the sixth armee could have broken out. But they have to stay. We will not retreat.The end is known. Some 300K troops gone. Surrender April 1943.
    North Africa. He sent some 200K in support of Mussolini (an MI5 asset from WW I. Once an asset, always an asset). Rommel was called back to Germany. He had planned to drive through into the ME. If that would have happened, the ME would look different to-day .The Africa corps was left to their own devices. No food, no material replacement. The only food they got was italien tinned food with the name of AM. The Italiens called it “Arabo Morte” and the Germans “Alter Mann”. The Germans raised the white flag, when? Early 1943! 500K battle hardended troops out of action. Who lost an eye and an arm in North Africa? Count Stauffenberg. We will never know, but I am convinced he had smelled a rat.
    Kursk. The biggest tank battle in history during May and August 1943. 2.5 K German tanks against 3.5k Russion tanks. His Generals implored him to start the battle in January, the ground is frozen, now is the time.But he declined. ‘ I am waiting for panzer 5′ He delayed the battle for 5 months, giving the Russians plenty of time to build up their defences. However, when Sepp Dietrich with his W-SS troops achieved the incredible feat of braking through 7or 8 Russian defences to attack from the rear and the flank, he stopped them, took away their tanks and sent them to Italy because of a “grave situation” there. Here the Leibstandarte Waffen-SS were sitting again on their hands. Of course the battle was lost.
    Jet fighter Me 262. His order was, out of 20 produced only one should be a fighter, the rest bombers! The Luftwaffe had, however, a first class Jet bomber, the ARADO. In the short existance, 59 jet fighters shot down 750 allied bombers. It is believed that if every one would have been a fighter the war would not have been won, but unconditional surrender would have been avoided.
    The above para from the english narrator of the documentary (on CD)’ German jet fighters in the second World war’.
    Omaha beach.
    He ordered that 3 panzer divisions of the Waffen-SS, average age 19 years, highly motivated, should be stationed a 3 days drive BEHIND the frontline. These guys right at the beach and no Omaha beach.

    His so called Nero Orders. In March 1945 he gave out these orders: “Raise everything to the ground, factories, bridges. Anything that could be usefull to the enemy i.e scorched earth decree. Worse than the Morgenthau plan. This order was ignored by Albert Speer.
    And there are still people including Germans that believe he was the greatest. Yes. for me he has been the greatest a….hole in the world. Every major military decision was for the benefit of our to-days “Allied Friends”.
    I have no opinion on the Holocaust. But some Jews have.
    Gerard Menhuin. The son of the greatest violinist of the last century, Yehudi Menhuin who after the war gave pro bono classical concerts for the downtrodden, depressed German people. Gerard Menhuin has written a book. 299 pages, “Tell The Truth And Shame The Devil”. Available from Amazon or for free as a pdf on the net. He wishes that this book/pdf should be distributed as widely as possible. He called the Holo ‘ A crime against the German people’. Buy it or download it. Read it. If you can’t find it go to codoh.com.
    Bronder’s(jewish) Book “Bevor Hitler kam” (only available in German.) It’s about Who was Who in the very close circle of the Nazi hirarchy. Eichman, Rosenberg jewish etc. He dosn’t touch the Holocaust, but he suffered great heavy professional consequences. He is a high school teacher in Hannover.

    Psychology

    (Addendum to an essay by Dr. Roger G. Dommergue Polacco de Menasce, Docteur de l’universite de Paris, in a response to the TV shows “Océaniques” in FR 3 dated 7. und 14. December 1987 ,of the gentlemen André Glücksman – Georges Steiner – Michel Cazenave – Jean Faye – François Fédierm, under the title ‘Auschwitz: The silence of Heidegger or minor details’) [Roger G. Dommergue Polacco de Menasce is Jewish ( his mother is Jewish ). Famous French-Jewish family].

    My translation from German From “J’ai mal de terre” P. 360 by Dr. Roger G. Dommergue Polacco de Ménasce “There is no business like Shoa-business !” Léon A. Jick, Jewish Historian, USA
    here he is in video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYSGCpGMhZc&itct=CB0QpDAYAiITCPbM3NKk7sQCFUkUHAod7V0AwjIHcmVsYXRlZEjy6oWmkdmJ0H8%3D&client=mv-google&gl=ZA&hl=en-GB

    The former editor in chief of the magazine DER SPIEGEL-Frietjof Meyer (of jewish extraction) and the former speaker of the German Parliament Dr Rita Suessmuth wrote in 2001 an article in the very up market magazine “OSTEUROPA” wherein they committed the ultimate”crime”:
    1. they reduced the no of victims to 500K
    2. they shifted the epicentre of all evil, the gas chambers, from Awitz Birkenau to two farmhouses of which the foundation were not found at the time. That was the place where “civilization” collapsed.

    A right-winger laid charges against the two for ‘minimizing’ the holocaust. It was thrown out of court.

    Further reading
    Prof G.C Preperata; Conjuring Hitler
    Incubation of Nazism
    excerpts off the net. I can’t get the book
    The good prof lost his tenure at an American univerity.

    A.H’s DNA

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/25/hitler-jewish-dna-tests-s_n_693568.html

    And and on goes the story.

    Read More
    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Never read so much nonsense.

    But let me discuss one point:

    " in his book, The Hitlers of Liverpool, Mike Unger claims the future Fuhrer fled to Merseyside from Vienna, to avoid national service. He says Hitler stayed in a flat in Toxteth with his married half-brother Alois from November 1912 to April 1913.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066155/Hitler-spent-months-living-Liverpool-flat-later-destroyed-Luftwaffe.html#ixzz57JHMl2ZD "

    Let us assume that Hitler was in GB for five months, around jan 1913, so what ?
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  228. @RadicalCenter
    The people in Dresden were attacking America?

    As part of the axis powers, when Japan attacked the US, the US response included Japan and her axis allies. And much to Germany’s chagrin that attack meant made Germany an enemy of the US. And part and parcel to destroying japan was defeating Germany Japan’s ally.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Wrong, Hitler declared war on the USA, after Pearl Harbour.
    , @EliteCommInc.
    One, as an axis power, Germany's declaration was merely acknowledging the obvious result of
    two, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

    Third, it simply doesn't matter if Germany declared war or not, the attack by japan constituted an attack by the axis powers on the US and as result -- a state of war existed between the US, Japan, Ital and Germany as they were the axis alliance.

    Now had there been no attack by Japan and Germany declared war on the US, that declaration of war would significant to the question.

    Fourth had Japan not attacked the US, Germany's declaration of war would have resulted in a war against Germany, Italy and Japan as the axis powers.

    Germany's declaration of war on Dec. 11, acknowledge facts in evidence. That the US was at war with Germany when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on Dec 8.

    http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/axis-powers-the-infamous-tripartite-pact/

    http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/30962


    We can dance around the meaning of what the Tripartite Pact means. But I think WWII answered the matter. If you want to hang your hat by ignoring the realities and pinning it to Germany's formal declaration of war on the US, that's fine by me. It's always reinforcing to have defenders of Germany submit information to the central issue -- Germany's aggression resulted in the decimation and tragic consequence on Dresden to stop Germany from attacking nations, such as the US, who based on your complaint was not yet at war with Germany.
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  229. @yurivku
    It was a funny reading. The story how one Western animals have killed the others.
    For me both deserved to be eliminated. If evil Red Army did it probably now I could have understood it. But it did not, stupid Russian even feed Germans after soldiers came to Berlin.
    Really stupid. Now western bastards blaim them for everything.

    It was Shrove Tuesday, 1945 in the magnificent German art city of Dresden, which was packed with helpless Christian refugees fleeing the Red Army of the Stalinist USSR.
     

    And nobody cries of them.

    Those innocent people ("helpless Christian refugees") were mothers, sisters and childs of those innocent killers who came to Russia, killed really innocent people and commit such crimes that normal humal even can't imagine. Who cries of them except us?
    There are a number of bastards here at UNZ who claim that 26 millions of Russians were killed by Stalin and Jews associated with him, not innocent Germans. And those horrible Russians raped millions of innocent NAZY women.

    After seeing it I just stop regretting of killed German civilians. What about anlosax killers? They did it everywhere - Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria ... wherever they come in and where nobody can fight back. And they won't stop themselves.

    When author switched to Jewish question, I've stopped reading. I'm not approving Jews with their "holocaust", but who cares about near 30 millions of Russians?

    Hypocritical bastards.

    Get a life сука : )

    Read More
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  230. helena says:
    @EliteCommInc.
    Whether the Holocaust was real or imagined is not relevant to the reason s the war started. Arguments about the holocaust are not central to why the war occurred.


    In fact one of the ways in which it used as a hammer of guilt is that the allied powers did not engage war on account of the holocaust.

    Dresden and other industrial city attacks were launched to prevent Germany prosecuting further expansion by force -- war was considered the only option.

    It was a digression I know.

    allied powers did not engage war on account of the holocaust.

    So in answer to my question; you think it would.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    No, I don't think they would.


    I realize that is not a politically correct response. While of some concern, maybe even deep concern, there is not much evidence that the allied powers would have gone to war to free those in concentration camps, incarcerated since 1938.

    The MS St. Loius incident is painfully telling.
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  231. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Mulegino1
    Don't you know how to reply directly to a comment?

    Since I am not a criminal, drug addict, public homosexual or a communist agitator, why should I need rehabilitation?

    Would such a thing not be better spent on those whose existence is not only a drag on society, but a danger to it?

    Since I am not a criminal, drug addict, public homosexual or a communist agitator, why should I need rehabilitation?

    Interesting…

    Read More
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  232. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally
    No it was not.

    The Polish Home Army of 1944 was a legit military target, damage to Warsaw in fighting them happened, no doubt.

    www.codoh.com

    No it was not.

    That isn’t an argument.

    The Polish Home Army of 1944 was a legit military target, damage to Warsaw in fighting them happened, no doubt.

    Of course it was a legitimate military target. So is the PLO.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    "Argument" or not, Warsaw was not 90% destroyed. Simple as that.

    Great, we agree then that damage to Warsaw that did occur was legit.
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  233. EugeneGur says:
    @jilles dykstra
    The sad truth is that even today most Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt for two world wars, and the holocaust.
    This is the basis for the disaster EU, and Merkel's detroying of Germany through mass immigration.

    Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt

    I don’t see that much guilt, actually. What I see is whitewashing of Nazism, denial of the crimes, and all sorts of justification including attempts to blame others (we had to; we were forced to; we were provoked; they are bad people and deserved it; etc). You yourself is a perfect example of that trend.

    Germany didn’t feel the slightest compunction about supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine, the very same type of people, oftentimes direct descendants of those people, it supported 70 years ago and used to perform it dirty work. It Germany had any, I wouldn’t say guilt, but any sense of decency, it would’ve stayed as far away from that mess as possible.

    Whatever reason moved Merkel to flood Germany with so-called refugees, it was certainly not guilt. Stupidity, perhaps, or obeying orders from the overseas master?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    It Germany had any, I wouldn’t say guilt, but any sense of decency
     
    blaming the German people for what the Zionist occupied government in the ZUS perpetrated in Kyiv, is exactly the kind of irrational, hysterical hatred that was responsible for the holocaust in Dresden.

    There's a pathology there, that screeches envy and an eternal, netherworld kind of hatred.

    Here's a clue, the German people have suffered for a blood-libel against their character because a Fiend that had taken over America's Treasury, and then betrayed Germany at the end of WWI, and then put its boot on Germany neck for a generation, until Hitler rose out of the ashes of Germany's prostrate submission to the Fiend, and wrested her away from the Bolshevik genocidal demon who wanted to do to Germany what it had just done to Ukraine.

    This fiend is manifested by British pedophile aristocrats and Jewish central bankers, and had taken Russia by the hair of the head and flung the best of Russia into the gulags. While it menaced the rest of the planet with its infinite hatred and evil cruelty.

    The very same infinite hatred and evil cruelty that rained down gasoline bombs on women and children and a culture that was superior to and more beautiful than anything it could accomplish.

    And so as only a fiend could conceive of, it burned people alive, with the exact same kind of netherworld hatred and primitive savagery that ISIS displayed when it too set harmless men on fire and burned them alive, all to sate an insatiable, infinite hatred within their black and monstrous souls.

    It seems being endemically inferior, like the British pedophile peerage, and the mean-spirited, greedy little Jewish banksters - is a recipe for moral abomination.

    We should all reflect on the fact that these people are still in power, and still and eternally the mediocre, hatred consumed losers that they were when they ordered the destruction of Dresden. To pretend that the Jews ordering Merkel to open Germany to invasion, are a different sort than the type who conceived of the Morgenthau Plan, would be a folly.
    , @jilles dykstra
    I wonder what your sources about Germans now are
    , @David In TN
    If you've seen my previous posts, I bow to no one in my contempt for what I call Hitler-worshiping cretins.

    Bur your comment above indicates you're only a few lengths behind them.
    , @Anonymous
    Merkel is just stupid. I know she's a physicist. It means nothing since she lacks all common sense.
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  234. EugeneGur says:
    @Wally
    Name calling, the last resort of the desperate.

    If you were so sure of yourself you would debate further at:
    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are laughable, scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here: http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here: http://forum.codoh.com


    "I owe my permission to submit the Zionist plan for the final solution of the Jewish Question."
    - 'Father of [political] Zionism' Theodor Herzl, letter to the Czar, November 22, 1899.
     
    Healthy Jews at Auschwitz 'liberation':
    http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/85600.jpg
    http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/PICS31/66935a.jpg

    Name calling, the last resort of the desperate.

    I absolutely agree, and I am glad that you understand your true nature so perfectly.

    Nazism, on the other hand, is a scientific definition of a certain ideology, and your views fit perfectly into that definition. You like “scientific” debates, don’t you? You shouldn’t object to scientific definition of your own agenda, then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    IOW, you have been shot down utterly so that now you dodge the damning information that I post and now your cognitive dissonance has your panties in a knot.

    This make utterly makes no sense, embarrassing really:
    "Nazism, on the other hand, is a scientific definition of a certain ideology, and your views fit perfectly into that definition. You like “scientific” debates, don’t you? You shouldn’t object to scientific definition of your own agenda, then."

    Say what?

    Now try this:
    rooftop of crematorium no. 2 at Auschwitz / alleged 'gas chamber'
    http://forum.codoh.com/download/file.php?id=1335&mode=view/gc%20KremaIIroof%20no%20holes%20snow%20much%20lower%20than%20chimneys%20said%20to%20be.jpg
    Taken January/February 1943 where there are no little 'chimneys' / columns for the alleged insertion of Zyklon-B / cyanide.
    The 'chimneys' / columns are claimed to have been ca. 2 feet high. The snow is 2-3 inches high. According to Auschwitz "expert" Robert Jan Van Pelt the 'chimneys' / insertion columns, which were said to protrude out from the roof, were added as an adaptation in August, 1942.
    www.codoh.com

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  235. Churchill and his top military circle … set afire the medieval cities of their German cousins, who only two generations before had comprised the royal blood within the House of the German-speaking Queen Victoria.

    The explanation to that could be found in Juri’s Lina “Architects of Deception”.
    Which happens to be in total sync with the digital (occult) profile of this barbaric
    action:
    02.14.1945 -> 0+2+1+4+1+9+4+5=26=28-2; 02+14+19+45=80=-2+82; 0214+1945=2159=820+800+77*7;

    [MORE]

    “Ash(28 /3) Wednesday(100/9)” -> 128/12 = 8*2*8/(2+8+2);
    “Dresden” -> 69/7=8+2-8/28*2;

    “Barbaric aerial bombing” -> 162/21=(82+80)/(7+7+7);
    “Purifying incineration” -> 256/21=2*8*8*2/(7+7+7);

    “Winston Churchill”=208/16=208/8*2;

    “Allied(43/6) Aschermittwoch(165/14)” -> 208/20;

    Read More
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  236. Rurik says:
    @EugeneGur

    Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt
     
    I don't see that much guilt, actually. What I see is whitewashing of Nazism, denial of the crimes, and all sorts of justification including attempts to blame others (we had to; we were forced to; we were provoked; they are bad people and deserved it; etc). You yourself is a perfect example of that trend.

    Germany didn't feel the slightest compunction about supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine, the very same type of people, oftentimes direct descendants of those people, it supported 70 years ago and used to perform it dirty work. It Germany had any, I wouldn't say guilt, but any sense of decency, it would've stayed as far away from that mess as possible.

    Whatever reason moved Merkel to flood Germany with so-called refugees, it was certainly not guilt. Stupidity, perhaps, or obeying orders from the overseas master?

    It Germany had any, I wouldn’t say guilt, but any sense of decency

    blaming the German people for what the Zionist occupied government in the ZUS perpetrated in Kyiv, is exactly the kind of irrational, hysterical hatred that was responsible for the holocaust in Dresden.

    There’s a pathology there, that screeches envy and an eternal, netherworld kind of hatred.

    Here’s a clue, the German people have suffered for a blood-libel against their character because a Fiend that had taken over America’s Treasury, and then betrayed Germany at the end of WWI, and then put its boot on Germany neck for a generation, until Hitler rose out of the ashes of Germany’s prostrate submission to the Fiend, and wrested her away from the Bolshevik genocidal demon who wanted to do to Germany what it had just done to Ukraine.

    This fiend is manifested by British pedophile aristocrats and Jewish central bankers, and had taken Russia by the hair of the head and flung the best of Russia into the gulags. While it menaced the rest of the planet with its infinite hatred and evil cruelty.

    The very same infinite hatred and evil cruelty that rained down gasoline bombs on women and children and a culture that was superior to and more beautiful than anything it could accomplish.

    And so as only a fiend could conceive of, it burned people alive, with the exact same kind of netherworld hatred and primitive savagery that ISIS displayed when it too set harmless men on fire and burned them alive, all to sate an insatiable, infinite hatred within their black and monstrous souls.

    It seems being endemically inferior, like the British pedophile peerage, and the mean-spirited, greedy little Jewish banksters – is a recipe for moral abomination.

    We should all reflect on the fact that these people are still in power, and still and eternally the mediocre, hatred consumed losers that they were when they ordered the destruction of Dresden. To pretend that the Jews ordering Merkel to open Germany to invasion, are a different sort than the type who conceived of the Morgenthau Plan, would be a folly.

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  237. lavoisier says: • Website

    Very profound discourse.

    Forgive my ignorance, but why are the Jews to blame for the decisions by Churchill and Truman to commit war crimes?

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    Truman became president when WWII was nearly over.
    What war crimes did he commit ?
    He knew nothing when he became president.
    Churchill, on the other hand, after Casablanca, was just a puppet of FDR.
    , @Rurik

    Forgive my ignorance, but why are the Jews to blame for the decisions by Churchill and Truman to commit war crimes?
     
    well, Churchill deserves his own place in Hell, to be sure.

    and leaving aside the issue of the bombing of Japan, as it's own thread-worthy subject, it was Truman after all who recognized the genocidal theft of Palestine from the Palestinians, presumably because the world had just fought an horrific war because "might should not mean right', and then they go and hand over Palestine to the world's most racist and Darwinian terrorists around.

    So certainly Truman deserves blame for his role in that debacle, no?

    as for why blame Jews when Gentiles wage wars..

    well on whose behalf did the US enter the first World War? On whose behalf was Germany betrayed into laying down their arms, and being subsequently starved into signing the German people into slavery?

    Or, just ask yourself on whose behalf has the ZUS and NATO have been destroying nation after nation in the Middle East?

    Does it serve the US or France to bomb Libya into the stone age? Does it serve the people of the ZUS to destroy Iraq and Syria?

    I'm an American, and I can answer that. Hell no it doesn't serve our interests, in fact it harms us in major and dire ways. Not only in blood and treasure, but we're losing our very souls, as the ZUS runs a torture camp, and spy's on every American citizen, and menaces large swaths of the people of the planet with terror drones and assassins.

    And ALL of is, at the behest of our bestest little buddy ever, who perpetrated 9/11 against us to get us to slaughter and maim millions of innocent people in the Middle East for their plan of Orwellian horrors writ large. And absolute domination over everyone, and every inch of the planet.

    There is an evil that has been menacing the world's people ever since they got control of the world's reserve currency, [rot in Hell Woodrow Wilson] and are now able to hit some keys on their computer and create trillions of dollars (Federal Reserve Notes) out of thin air, to bribe and bully the corrupt governments of the dying (murdered) West into destroying not just other nations inconvenient to Israel, but also to destroy their own nations through unlimited migration, as well.

    And it was this Old Testament evil racist tribalism that conceived of the bombing campaign against Dresden, just as it conceived of the Morgenthau Plan.

    If we can wrest that counterfeiting machine (the Fed) from them, then we might save humanity from their next apocalyptic atrocity, but it won't be easy.
    , @jacques sheete

    Forgive my ignorance, but why are the Jews to blame for the decisions by Churchill and Truman to commit war crimes?
     
    Because they both should have known how some of them operate, yet they bent over and took it in the shorts from them anyway.

    Had ten minutes conversation with Henry Morgenthau...

    He'd no business, whatever to call me. The Jews have no sense of proportion nor do they have any judgement on world affairs.

    Henry brought a thousand Jews to New York on a supposedly temporary basis and they stayed. When the country went backward-and Republican in the election of 1946, this incident loomed large on the D[isplaced] P[ersons] program.

    The Jews, I find are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog. Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes.

    - Harry S. Truman, Diary, Monday July 21, 1947
    https://trumanlibrary.org/diary/page21.htm


    https://trumanlibrary.org/diary/page21.htm

     

    Also, you forgot to mention FDR and his Red infested administration. For kicks, look up the "Swope Plan."
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  238. @EugeneGur

    Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt
     
    I don't see that much guilt, actually. What I see is whitewashing of Nazism, denial of the crimes, and all sorts of justification including attempts to blame others (we had to; we were forced to; we were provoked; they are bad people and deserved it; etc). You yourself is a perfect example of that trend.

    Germany didn't feel the slightest compunction about supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine, the very same type of people, oftentimes direct descendants of those people, it supported 70 years ago and used to perform it dirty work. It Germany had any, I wouldn't say guilt, but any sense of decency, it would've stayed as far away from that mess as possible.

    Whatever reason moved Merkel to flood Germany with so-called refugees, it was certainly not guilt. Stupidity, perhaps, or obeying orders from the overseas master?

    I wonder what your sources about Germans now are

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    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    You think you are the only one who can read?
    I read the German press; I observe the behavior of the German leadership; I visit Germany pretty regularly; I interact with Germans - I see the attitude.
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  239. @EugeneGur

    Germans still suffer from the brainwashing that they must feel guilt
     
    I don't see that much guilt, actually. What I see is whitewashing of Nazism, denial of the crimes, and all sorts of justification including attempts to blame others (we had to; we were forced to; we were provoked; they are bad people and deserved it; etc). You yourself is a perfect example of that trend.

    Germany didn't feel the slightest compunction about supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine, the very same type of people, oftentimes direct descendants of those people, it supported 70 years ago and used to perform it dirty work. It Germany had any, I wouldn't say guilt, but any sense of decency, it would've stayed as far away from that mess as possible.

    Whatever reason moved Merkel to flood Germany with so-called refugees, it was certainly not guilt. Stupidity, perhaps, or obeying orders from the overseas master?

    If you’ve seen my previous posts, I bow to no one in my contempt for what I call Hitler-worshiping cretins.

    Bur your comment above indicates you’re only a few lengths behind them.

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    • Replies: @EugeneGur
    I'll have to learn to live with you disapprobation, then.
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  240. Sparkon says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    At this juncture we pause to contemplate the bloody treason that was at the heart of Churchill’s soul: he wanted as many of his own English civilians in London to die as possible, so he could point to their deaths as the justification for a total war against Germany, and he succeeded in his objective.
     

    One can hardly call this treason.

    Prior to shifting the air war to the Blitz, Fighter Command was on the verge of being broken.

    And the destruction of housing stock is much less damaging to the war effort than the destruction of vital industries.

    So at a stroke, Churchill prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority over England and shifted their attacks to non-strategic targets.

    And if what you say is true about the British peace movement, Churchill removed political opposition detrimental to the war effort. It must be remembered that the British government possessed less power than the German government and was both more dependent on public opinion and had less ability to mold it.

    That's not to justify the destruction of Dresden of course, but as it was said of the Germans of the time--sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

    Britain probably would've been better off not pursuing the bombing campaign at all. Something like one-third of Britain's industrial effort was in support of the bombing campaign, which did not begin to have decisive effects until the second half of 1944. Of course no one could have known this in 1940.

    Prior to shifting the air war to the Blitz, Fighter Command was on the verge of being broken.

    And the destruction of housing stock is much less damaging to the war effort than the destruction of vital industries.

    So at a stroke, Churchill prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority over England and shifted their attacks to non-strategic targets.

    Yes, I think there is merit to your observations, but I’d argue that prevention of Fighter Command’s destruction was engineered by secret agent man Adolph Hitler, and not the drunken warmonger Winston Churchill.

    Once again, the Führer seemed entirely too eager to jump for the bait, and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Already he had allowed the defeated British Expeditionary Force to escape destruction or capture at Dunkirk.

    If a prize fighter has his opponent on the ropes, wobbly on his feet, and on his last legs, yet fails to deliver a knock-out blow, and indeed goes on to lose the fight in a crushing defeat, the incredulous and suspicious fight fan might well entertain thoughts that the fight had been fixed.

    I know there are many who cannot or will not consider the premise that both WWI and WWII were planned, arranged, and orchestrated, at least in part by ensuring that the right people — or wrong people, if you choose — were in the right places as various pressures were exerted here, strings pulled there, not least of all through the mass media, but also by a host of actions undertaken by those who were under the sway of the hidden entities lusting for war, such as FDR, who had taken steps sure to enrage the ultranationalist hotheads in Japan’s military.

    While he was working on that, FDR ordered US Navy destroyers to harass German U-boats in the Atlantic, hoping to provoke a shooting incident that could be used as justification for getting into the war against Germany.

    Back in the Pacific, FDR’s “pop-up cruises” sent flotillas of Navy cruisers on maneuvers designed to further provoke the Japanese. Flying Tigers had been sent to China along with over 100 aircraft, and the entire U.S. B-17 production was being sent to the Philippines.

    Also, Japan’s rulers knew that in March 1941, Congress had granted FDR permission to send money and equipment to the Chinese under the Lend-Lease Act.

    In short, by launching the Flying Tigers, President Roosevelt declared war on the Japanese before the Japanese attacked the U.S. He gave the Japanese the legal right to bomb Pearl Harbor, and did not tell the American people or the commanders at Pearl Harbor.

    http://www.daveblackonline.com/lying_presidents.htm

    For various reasons, including a timely plane crash, the Luftwaffe did not develop an effective heavy bomber before or during WWII. By contrast, both the United States, and Britain had heavy bombers under development by the mid to late 30s. The design specification for what led to the B-17 was issued On 8 August 1934.

    For the war, about 4,000 B-17s were built, along with a similar number of B-25s, but the Americans also built over 18, 000 B-24s, and another 4,000 B-29s. RAF Bomber Command disposed of 11 different types of bombers, including 15,000 heavy bombers, almost half of which were Lancasters, and about 13,300 mediums, the vast majority of which were Wellingtons. (light bombers excluded; all numbers approx.)

    It was these kinds of numbers of operational bombers that allowed Bomber Command to undertake the famous, or should I say infamous, Thousand Bomber Raids to flatten Germany with “carpet bombing.”

    For Dresden, the RAF and the USAAF marshaled over 1,200 bombers for a series of devastating raids over several days. Some sources say that the industrial regions of Dresden lay far outside the city, and these were not hit until later, almost as an afterthought.

    I am inclined to think that the higher fatality figures may be closer to the truth because of the many, uncountable refugees who had fled there seeking safety in a city that had not been bombed. There easily could have been several hundred thousand people in the city, but of course the entire Western propaganda machine would be working overtime to ensure that the real death figure would be pushed down, way down.

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    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    " For various reasons, including a timely plane crash, the Luftwaffe did not develop an effective heavy bomber before or during WWII. "

    The British and USA heavy bombers were ineffective in winning the war.
    Germany saw the Luftwaffe as support for the army, the Stuka's and other aircraft were quite effective.
    Zuckerman, the RAF's scientific adviser, is of the opinion that the British bombing of Germany damaged Britain more than Germany
    Solly Zuckermann, ‘From Apes to Warlords, an autobiography, 1904- 46’, London 1988
    It is even worse, killing large numbers of idle civilians helped the German war effort.
    , @utu

    was engineered by secret agent man Adolph Hitler
     
    Wow! Have you ever thought this idea through?
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  241. @organplayer
    This is mostlikely too long. Admin may shorten it or erase it altogether
    @ everbody
    What I am writing now will upset many especially the Hitler lovers. ( in German called the " Groefaz" - [ Groester Feldherr Aller Zeiten]- my English translation(Greatest Warlord Of All Time)[ - G(W)OAT].
    But, befor the screaming starts, think! Let us look at the time of WW I. Where was he? Not at the front inhaling poison gas,for which he alledgedly was awarded the EK first class. No, he was a draft dodger, sticking it out with his brother for months in England, who was working with his Irish wife as waiters in the Mensa in London. I have a photo copy of the employment list, I think from David Irvings website. Check it out.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066155/Hitler-spent-months-living-Liverpool-flat-later-destroyed-Luftwaffe.html
    While the fighting and dying went on at the front, he wrote a postcard to his :" I wish I could be with you, but my dentist has just pulled 18 (eightteen) teeth"!LOL. (Source: Der Spiegel, with copy) After that he was stationed at a canonier bataillion near Munich. He was recommended for the EK1 by a Capain Guthmann.
    His coup attempt in Munich in the 20s failed. 17/18 of his died in a hail of bullets while WW I distinguished General -Erich Friedrich Wilhelm Ritter von Ludendorff- (Wiki) stoically marched on. Where was the EK 1 hero? He sought refuge with the communists! This is still baffeling the Churchill biographer Ian Kershaw, and a lot of other people. The police found him 3 days later with his good friend Hanfstengel (translated Hennopstem), who was an NSDAP member of the first hour. Later he became an advisor to Pres Rooselt! LOL.
    The courts condemmed him to 5 years in prison, where he is said to have written MEIN KAMPF. I have the book since 50 years. I managed 18 pages of BS. Then I put it aside. Simple German, Jews, banks and living space in the East. Allready after 9 MONTHS he was let out! Nobody really knows why, apart from those that organised it. Interestingly a few months back a German History Prof, teaching in a "town" Aberdeen, South Africa, a town of 7.2 K inhabitants, found in the local library a much EARLIER edition of Mein Kampf! In it "he"(LOL) appearently wrote to become the Fuehrer of Germany! (source: Der Spiegel)
    Fast forward. In the Munich Hofbraeukeller, he regularly ranted on for hours on end to a full house. However, one day he cut his speeches short and left very early. That was the day when shortly after a bomb exploded planted behind the chimney where he usually stood. 8 people were killed. That lucky escape was similar to the biggest jackpot win of all time! The assessin was a Georg Elser, also named Eller. He was caught and incarcerated in so called protective custody! Stauffenberg was shot, others hung on piano wires, Rommel had to commit suicide. Mr Elser/Eller had three rooms in prison, regular barber visits, free access to the prison brothel , decent food ect.
    Check Wiki
    Excerpt:

    Shortly before the war ended Elser was shot. Dead people don't talk.
    After he had become Chancellor ( with the help of manipulated election results), Hindenburg had refused twice to sign the "paper",he started his attack on Jews, bankers etc. In one of his speeches he declared that the Jews would be "ausgerotted"= exterminated. The meaning of this word in this context meant exactly that: exterminated. Is anyone telling me that this man -a goy-could have gotten away with this in a country where jews were still in high places, in the juris prudence, finances, science, a n d the cultural life of Germany without having to face any serious consequences? Noways!
    Let's have a short look at his military decisions.
    Dunkirk! The war was finished at Dunkirk. The G(W)OAT gave the halt order. His Leibstandarte, Waffen-SS, his spersonal division, under Sepp Dietrich, ignored the order and pressed on. He was threatened with a court marshall if he wouldn't obey. Whilst the evacuation of the British expeditionary forces carried on, Dietrich was sitting on his hands waiting. Genral Blumentritt said afterwards: 'We then had to listen to a long tirade about the importance of the British empire' etc. A country-England- that had declared war on Germany was important? That's a joke.
    Battle of Brittain. Germany lost some 2K planes, England 1,7 K. Number of pilots killed on both sides unknown. The battle then fizzled out. Fighter ace Genral Galland asked the G(W)OAT. Why? Nothing has been decided yet. His answer: the battle was only the"camouflage" of the build up to Barbarossa. A camouflage to hide a frontline of 2900 km? Nobody could see what was going on? LOL. He wanted 'living space in the east'? The man was actually incabable of reading a map. Russia, 17 Million sqkm. If Gerfmany ( a fly shit on the map) had won this greatest slaughter of all time, placing 1 soldier on every 3 cubic km to guard the conquered ground?
    With 50 km in front of Moscow, came another halt order. He decided the supply line is too long. Thne troops seeing the onion towers of Moscow with their bare eyes, he realised the supply line was too long? There the spear tip of the panzers sat again on their hands waiting whilst Stalin and his crew had their bags already packed.
    Stalingrad. It is an accepted fact that the sixth armee could have broken out. But they have to stay. We will not retreat.The end is known. Some 300K troops gone. Surrender April 1943.
    North Africa. He sent some 200K in support of Mussolini (an MI5 asset from WW I. Once an asset, always an asset). Rommel was called back to Germany. He had planned to drive through into the ME. If that would have happened, the ME would look different to-day .The Africa corps was left to their own devices. No food, no material replacement. The only food they got was italien tinned food with the name of AM. The Italiens called it "Arabo Morte" and the Germans "Alter Mann". The Germans raised the white flag, when? Early 1943! 500K battle hardended troops out of action. Who lost an eye and an arm in North Africa? Count Stauffenberg. We will never know, but I am convinced he had smelled a rat.
    Kursk. The biggest tank battle in history during May and August 1943. 2.5 K German tanks against 3.5k Russion tanks. His Generals implored him to start the battle in January, the ground is frozen, now is the time.But he declined. ' I am waiting for panzer 5' He delayed the battle for 5 months, giving the Russians plenty of time to build up their defences. However, when Sepp Dietrich with his W-SS troops achieved the incredible feat of braking through 7or 8 Russian defences to attack from the rear and the flank, he stopped them, took away their tanks and sent them to Italy because of a "grave situation" there. Here the Leibstandarte Waffen-SS were sitting again on their hands. Of course the battle was lost.
    Jet fighter Me 262. His order was, out of 20 produced only one should be a fighter, the rest bombers! The Luftwaffe had, however, a first class Jet bomber, the ARADO. In the short existance, 59 jet fighters shot down 750 allied bombers. It is believed that if every one would have been a fighter the war would not have been won, but unconditional surrender would have been avoided.
    The above para from the english narrator of the documentary (on CD)' German jet fighters in the second World war'.
    Omaha beach.
    He ordered that 3 panzer divisions of the Waffen-SS, average age 19 years, highly motivated, should be stationed a 3 days drive BEHIND the frontline. These guys right at the beach and no Omaha beach.

    His so called Nero Orders. In March 1945 he gave out these orders: "Raise everything to the ground, factories, bridges. Anything that could be usefull to the enemy i.e scorched earth decree. Worse than the Morgenthau plan. This order was ignored by Albert Speer.
    And there are still people including Germans that believe he was the greatest. Yes. for me he has been the greatest a....hole in the world. Every major military decision was for the benefit of our to-days "Allied Friends".
    I have no opinion on the Holocaust. But some Jews have.
    Gerard Menhuin. The son of the greatest violinist of the last century, Yehudi Menhuin who after the war gave pro bono classical concerts for the downtrodden, depressed German people. Gerard Menhuin has written a book. 299 pages, "Tell The Truth And Shame The Devil". Available from Amazon or for free as a pdf on the net. He wishes that this book/pdf should be distributed as widely as possible. He called the Holo ' A crime against the German people'. Buy it or download it. Read it. If you can't find it go to codoh.com.
    Bronder's(jewish) Book "Bevor Hitler kam" (only available in German.) It's about Who was Who in the very close circle of the Nazi hirarchy. Eichman, Rosenberg jewish etc. He dosn't touch the Holocaust, but he suffered great heavy professional consequences. He is a high school teacher in Hannover.

    Psychology

    (Addendum to an essay by Dr. Roger G. Dommergue Polacco de Menasce, Docteur de l'universite de Paris, in a response to the TV shows "Océaniques" in FR 3 dated 7. und 14. December 1987 ,of the gentlemen André Glücksman – Georges Steiner – Michel Cazenave – Jean Faye – François Fédierm, under the title 'Auschwitz: The silence of Heidegger or minor details') [Roger G. Dommergue Polacco de Menasce is Jewish ( his mother is Jewish ). Famous French-Jewish family].

    My translation from German From "J'ai mal de terre" P. 360 by Dr. Roger G. Dommergue Polacco de Ménasce "There is no business like Shoa-business !" Léon A. Jick, Jewish Historian, USA
    here he is in video

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYSGCpGMhZc&itct=CB0QpDAYAiITCPbM3NKk7sQCFUkUHAod7V0AwjIHcmVsYXRlZEjy6oWmkdmJ0H8%3D&client=mv-google&gl=ZA&hl=en-GB
    The former editor in chief of the magazine DER SPIEGEL-Frietjof Meyer (of jewish extraction) and the former speaker of the German Parliament Dr Rita Suessmuth wrote in 2001 an article in the very up market magazine "OSTEUROPA" wherein they committed the ultimate"crime":
    1. they reduced the no of victims to 500K
    2. they shifted the epicentre of all evil, the gas chambers, from Awitz Birkenau to two farmhouses of which the foundation were not found at the time. That was the place where "civilization" collapsed.

    A right-winger laid charges against the two for 'minimizing' the holocaust. It was thrown out of court.

    Further reading
    Prof G.C Preperata; Conjuring Hitler
    Incubation of Nazism
    excerpts off the net. I can't get the book
    The good prof lost his tenure at an American univerity.

    A.H's DNA

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/25/hitler-jewish-dna-tests-s_n_693568.html
    And and on goes the story.

    Never read so much nonsense.

    But let me discuss one point:

    ” in his book, The Hitlers of Liverpool, Mike Unger claims the future Fuhrer fled to Merseyside from Vienna, to avoid national service. He says Hitler stayed in a flat in Toxteth with his married half-brother Alois from November 1912 to April 1913.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066155/Hitler-spent-months-living-Liverpool-flat-later-destroyed-Luftwaffe.html#ixzz57JHMl2ZD

    Let us assume that Hitler was in GB for five months, around jan 1913, so what ?

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    • Agree: Alden
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  242. @EliteCommInc.
    As part of the axis powers, when Japan attacked the US, the US response included Japan and her axis allies. And much to Germany's chagrin that attack meant made Germany an enemy of the US. And part and parcel to destroying japan was defeating Germany Japan's ally.

    Wrong, Hitler declared war on the USA, after Pearl Harbour.

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    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    \
    Post correction ----
    One, as an axis power, Germany’s declaration was merely acknowledging the obvious result of
    two, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

    Third, it simply doesn’t matter if Germany declared war or not, the attack by japan constituted an attack by the axis powers on the US and as result — a state of war existed between the US, Japan, Ital and Germany as they were the axis alliance.

    Now had there been no attack by Japan and Germany declared war on the US, that declaration of war would significant to the question.

    Fourth had Japan not attacked the US, Germany’s declaration of war would have resulted in a war against Germany, Italy and Japan as the axis powers.

    Germany’s declaration of war on Dec. 11, acknowledge facts in evidence. That the US was at war with Germany when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on Dec 8.

    http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/axis-powers-the-infamous-tripartite-pact/

    http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/30962

    We can dance around the meaning of what the Tripartite Pact means. But I think WWII answered the matter. If you want to hang your hat by ignoring the realities and pinning it to Germany’s formal declaration of war on the US, that’s fine by me. It’s always reinforcing to have defenders of Germany submit information to the central issue — Germany’s aggression resulted in the decimation and tragic consequence on Dresden to stop Germany from attacking nations, such as the US, who based on your complaint was not yet at war with Germany.
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