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One of the most hyped “events” of American television, The Vietnam War, has started on the PBS network. The directors are Ken Burns and Lynn Novick. Acclaimed for his documentaries on the Civil War, the Great Depression and the history of jazz, Burns says of his Vietnam films, “They will inspire our country to begin to talk and think about the Vietnam war in an entirely new way”.

In a society often bereft of historical memory and in thrall to the propaganda of its “exceptionalism”, Burns’ “entirely new” Vietnam war is presented as “epic, historic work”. Its lavish advertising campaign promotes its biggest backer, Bank of America, which in 1971 was burned down by students in Santa Barbara, California, as a symbol of the hated war in Vietnam.

Burns says he is grateful to “the entire Bank of America family” which “has long supported our country’s veterans”. Bank of America was a corporate prop to an invasion that killed perhaps as many as four million Vietnamese and ravaged and poisoned a once bountiful land. More than 58,000 American soldiers were killed, and around the same number are estimated to have taken their own lives.

I watched the first episode in New York. It leaves you in no doubt of its intentions right from the start. The narrator says the war “was begun in good faith by decent people out of fateful misunderstandings, American overconfidence and Cold War misunderstandings”.

The dishonesty of this statement is not surprising. The cynical fabrication of “false flags” that led to the invasion of Vietnam is a matter of record – the Gulf of Tonkin “incident” in 1964, which Burns promotes as true, was just one. The lies litter a multitude of official documents, notably the Pentagon Papers, which the great whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg released in 1971.

There was no good faith. The faith was rotten and cancerous. For me – as it must be for many Americans — it is difficult to watch the film’s jumble of “red peril” maps, unexplained interviewees, ineptly cut archive and maudlin American battlefield sequences.

In the series’ press release in Britain — the BBC will show it — there is no mention of Vietnamese dead, only Americans. “We are all searching for some meaning in this terrible tragedy,” Novick is quoted as saying. How very post-modern.

All this will be familiar to those who have observed how the American media and popular culture behemoth has revised and served up the great crime of the second half of the twentieth century: from The Green Berets and The Deer Hunter to Rambo and, in so doing, has legitimised subsequent wars of aggression. The revisionism never stops and the blood never dries. The invader is pitied and purged of guilt, while “searching for some meaning in this terrible tragedy”. Cue Bob Dylan: “Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?”

I thought about the “decency” and “good faith” when recalling my own first experiences as a young reporter in Vietnam: watching hypnotically as the skin fell off Napalmed peasant children like old parchment, and the ladders of bombs that left trees petrified and festooned with human flesh. General William Westmoreland, the American commander, referred to people as “termites”.

In the early 1970s, I went to Quang Ngai province, where in the village of My Lai, between 347 and 500 men, women and infants were murdered by American troops (Burns prefers “killings”). At the time, this was presented as an aberration: an “American tragedy” (Newsweek ). In this one province, it was estimated that 50,000 people had been slaughtered during the era of American “free fire zones”. Mass homicide. This was not news.

To the north, in Quang Tri province, more bombs were dropped than in all of Germany during the Second World War. Since 1975, unexploded ordnance has caused more than 40,000 deaths in mostly “South Vietnam”, the country America claimed to “save” and, with France, conceived as a singularly imperial ruse.

The “meaning” of the Vietnam war is no different from the meaning of the genocidal campaign against the Native Americans, the colonial massacres in the Philippines, the atomic bombings of Japan, the levelling of every city in North Korea. The aim was described by Colonel Edward Lansdale, the famous CIA man on whom Graham Greene based his central character in The Quiet American.

Quoting Robert Taber’s The War of the Flea, Lansdale said, “There is only one means of defeating an insurgent people who will not surrender, and that is extermination. There is only one way to control a territory that harbours resistance, and that is to turn it into a desert.”

Nothing has changed. When Donald Trump addressed the United Nations on 19 September – a body established to spare humanity the “scourge of war” – he declared he was “ready, willing and able” to “totally destroy” North Korea and its 25 million people. His audience gasped, but Trump’s language was not unusual.

His rival for the presidency, Hillary Clinton, had boasted she was prepared to “totally obliterate” Iran, a nation of more than 80 million people. This is the American Way; only the euphemisms are missing now.

Returning to the US, I am struck by the silence and the absence of an opposition – on the streets, in journalism and the arts, as if dissent once tolerated in the “mainstream” has regressed to a dissidence: a metaphoric underground.

There is plenty of sound and fury at Trump the odious one, the “fascist”, but almost none at Trump the symptom and caricature of an enduring system of conquest and extremism.

Where are the ghosts of the great anti-war demonstrations that took over Washington in the 1970s? Where is the equivalent of the Freeze Movement that filled the streets of Manhattan in the 1980s, demanding that President Reagan withdraw battlefield nuclear weapons from Europe?

The sheer energy and moral persistence of these great movements largely succeeded; by 1987 Reagan had negotiated with Mikhail Gorbachev an Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) that effectively ended the Cold War.

Today, according to secret Nato documents obtained by the German newspaper, Suddeutsche Zetung, this vital treaty is likely to be abandoned as “nuclear targeting planning is increased”. The German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel has warned against “repeating the worst mistakes of the Cold War … All the good treaties on disarmament and arms control from Gorbachev and Reagan are in acute peril. Europe is threatened again with becoming a military training ground for nuclear weapons. We must raise our voice against this.”

But not in America. The thousands who turned out for Senator Bernie Sanders’ “revolution” in last year’s presidential campaign are collectively mute on these dangers. That most of America’s violence across the world has been perpetrated not by Republicans, or mutants like Trump, but by liberal Democrats, remains a taboo.

Barack Obama provided the apotheosis, with seven simultaneous wars, a presidential record, including the destruction of Libya as a modern state. Obama’s overthrow of Ukraine’s elected government has had the desired effect: the massing of American-led Nato forces on Russia’s western borderland through which the Nazis invaded in 1941.

Obama’s “pivot to Asia” in 2011 signalled the transfer of the majority of America’s naval and air forces to Asia and the Pacific for no purpose other than to confront and provoke China. The Nobel Peace Laureate’s worldwide campaign of assassinations is arguably the most extensive campaign of terrorism since 9/11.

What is known in the US as “the left” has effectively allied with the darkest recesses of institutional power, notably the Pentagon and the CIA, to see off a peace deal between Trump and Vladimir Putin and to reinstate Russia as an enemy, on the basis of no evidence of its alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election.

The true scandal is the insidious assumption of power by sinister war-making vested interests for which no American voted. The rapid ascendancy of the Pentagon and the surveillance agencies under Obama represented an historic shift of power in Washington. Daniel Ellsberg rightly called it a coup. The three generals running Trump are its witness.

All of this fails to penetrate those “liberal brains pickled in the formaldehyde of identity politics”, as Luciana Bohne noted memorably. Commodified and market-tested, “diversity” is the new liberal brand, not the class people serve regardless of their gender and skin colour: not the responsibility of all to stop a barbaric war to end all wars.

“How did it fucking come to this?” says Michael Moore in his Broadway show, Terms of My Surrender, a vaudeville for the disaffected set against a backdrop of Trump as Big Brother.

I admired Moore’s film, Roger & Me, about the economic and social devastation of his hometown of Flint, Michigan, and Sicko, his investigation into the corruption of healthcare in America.

The night I saw his show, his happy-clappy audience cheered his reassurance that “we are the majority!” and calls to “impeach Trump, a liar and a fascist!” His message seemed to be that had you held your nose and voted for Hillary Clinton, life would be predictable again.

He may be right. Instead of merely abusing the world, as Trump does, the Great Obliterator might have attacked Iran and lobbed missiles at Putin, whom she likened to Hitler: a particular profanity given the 27 million Russians who died in Hitler’s invasion.

“Listen up,” said Moore, “putting aside what our governments do, Americans are really loved by the world!”

There was a silence.

John Pilger can be reached through his website:

(Republished from Counterpunch by permission of author or representative)
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  1. Logan says:

    ” When Donald Trump addressed the United Nations on 19 September – a body established to spare humanity the “scourge of war” – he declared he was “ready, willing and able” to “totally destroy” North Korea and its 25 million people. ”

    What should we do if Kim launches nukes at the US?

    Say, “Thank you, sir, may I have another?”

  2. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Thanks to MR Pilger for his many years of service to humanity. He correctly identifies identity politics as just a diversion, siphoning people off into absurd political micro-factions and rendering them as harmless squabbling fools blind to the dangers of Clinton and the rest of that faction. We seem to be entering a period of enhanced tension and increasing friction worldwide fueled by American expansionism. It’s the US that’spushing this. One miscalculation and we could have a disaster on our hands of historic proportions. We can’t have universal health insurance or otherwise spend our money on domestic projects since it’s all needed for the next round of military projects.

  3. “Where are the ghosts of the great anti-war demonstrations that took over Washington in the 1970s? Where is the equivalent of the Freeze Movement that filled the streets of Manhattan in the 1980s, demanding that President Reagan withdraw battlefield nuclear weapons from Europe?”

    As Peter Hitchens puts it, the student revolutionaries now occupy the corner offices. The cultural revolution is ongoing, and wants to extend its huge victories in the US and Western Europe into Eastern Europe and Russia. To this end the stick of bombs is a useful complement to the carrot of money.

    Why the powers that be show no interest in promoting cultural revolution in the Middle East, but still like to bomb and drone there, I leave to you and Occam’s Razor.

    • Replies: @animalogic
    , @Joe Wong
  4. I served under Johnson and Nixon. The purpose of the Vietnam war was to make a few rich men richer. That’s it.

    • Agree: Kiza
    • Replies: @Taras77
    , @Bill jones
  5. FKA Max says: • Website

    I have quite extensively researched and looked into the history and political dynamics of and behind the reasons for the Vietnam War, here a selection of past comments:

    I forgot to mention Vietnam:
    Vietnam why did we go?

    Avro Manhattan was the world’s foremost authority on Roman Catholicism in politics. […]

    With an immense collection of facts, photos, names and dates, Manhattan proves that the Vietnam War began as a religious conflict. He shows how America was manipulated into supporting Catholic oppression in Vietnam supposedly to fight communism.

    The Catholic connection/link in regards to/with Fascism is very important to keep in mind.

    The simple fact, that Trump is Protestant, makes it highly unlikely, that he has fascist tendencies/leanings, since the great majority of fascist dictatorships were Catholic, with a few exceptions


    Without taking into account the Vatican element, one cannot fully understand the logic of Invade the World/Invite the World , in my opinion.
    The CIA is the best known of the 17 agencies that comprise the American intelligence community. It has earned itself nicknames like “Catholic Intelligence Agency” and “Catholics In Action”. It’s worth exploring why.
    This no doubt has much to do with the fact that Edmund Walsh was arguably the first American anti-communist (not to mention the fact that Walsh’s preached preemptive strikes against aggressors decades before the word neoconservative existed).

    Paul Blanshard understood and had firsthand experience with Catholic/Vatican demographic warfare by means of high fertility rates and immigration.

    Full text of “Communism Democracy And Catholic Power”

    For more comments and information on this topic:

    Spellman, as mentioned elsewhere, had been one of the earliest sponsors of the then unknown Vietnamese leader, Diem. From the very beginning when Diem went to seek American sponsorship in the U.S., Spellman persuaded many influential politicians, including Senator Kennedy the future President, to support Diem in preference to other candidates.
    Kennedy, while succumbing to the Catholic lobby of the U.S. and to the arguments of Spellman, resisted their pressure to put all the weight of America behind the Catholic regime of Diem.
    The impact Cardinal Spellman had on the United States’ history and destiny is difficult to overestimate, in my opinion, and he was also one of the main drivers behind the Zionist-Vatican alliance. Many people forget, that Emanuel Celler’s grand-father was Catholic

    (During Spellman’s reign and long afterward, all of New York’s newspapers in fact cowered before the Catholic Church. On Spellman’s orders New York’s department stores?owned largely by Catholics?pulled ads from the then-liberal New York Post in the 1950s after publisher Dorothy Schiff wrote commentary critical of his right-wing positions; Schiff was forced to back down on her positions.)

    In this kind of politics, it is the appearance of things that matters.

    – John F. Kennedy according to Gore Vidal –

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @daniel le mouche
  6. dearieme says:

    “the great crime of the second half of the twentieth century”: a great crime indeed, but I doubt that it is the great crime. Surely Mao killed more people? Surely Pol Pot killed a higher proportion of a population? Unless you mean that it is the great crime because it was committed by white people?

  7. dearieme says:

    “This is the American Way; only the euphemisms are missing now.” So, at least one improvement from the JFK/LBJ years.

    “Returning to the US, I am struck by the silence and the absence of an opposition”: when I comment on American blogs, pointing out how evil much of American foreign policy has been for many decades, I get accused of being a lefty. I laugh lest I weep.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @daniel le mouche
  8. iffen says:

    it is the great crime because it was committed by white people

    White man’s burden; we’re supposed to know better.

  9. iffen says:

    There needs to be some sort of Godwin’s Law that says when a writer mentions the mistreatment of American Indians by European immigrants and their descendants it counts as officially jumping the shark.

  10. Retired USAF Col. Fletcher Prouty revealed that the “Pentagon Papers” were a planned CIA leak to shift blame for the failed war in Vietnam from the CIA to the Pentagon. The documents were real, but only certain documents were released. Prouty wrote the other reason for this “leak” was to upset the Nixon administration, which it was trying to destabilize in hopes of ousting Nixon.

    Nixon was upset that the CIA refused to provide him with requested documents concerning the Bay of Pigs and the JFK assassination. Nixon also angered the “Power Elite” by withdrawing American troops from their profitable business venture in Vietnam and improving relations with Red China. Nixon was ousted with the help of covert CIA agent Bob Woodward, working undercover as a reporter at the CIA co-founded “Washington Post”. Gerald Ford became President, who just happened to be a member of the discredited Warren Commission that engineered the cover-up of the JFK assassination!

    I’m not sure if the leaker of the “Pentagon Papers”, career CIA agent Daniel Ellsberg, knew he was being used, but he was never prosecuted and allowed to retire and collect his CIA pension. Before becoming a leaker, Ellsberg spent a few years in Vietnam working directly under the senior CIA spook there, Edward Lansdale, pictured at the scene of the 1963 JFK coup in Dallas.

    Bradley Manning was a young, lowly soldier sent to years in prison for leaking some embarrassing videos, yet Ellsberg was a senior official who knew the consequences of releasing thousands of pages of classified information. Yet he was never prosecuted AND allowed to retire and collect a government pension! No one on the American “left” questions this obvious red flag, and they celebrate Ellsberg as a hero. Ellsberg may be a great guy, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he still reports to the CIA in Langley.

  11. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Cardinal Spellman In Korea (1950-1959)


    Avery Dulles Ordained 1956/6/18

    Avery Dulles ordained in New York by Archbishop Spellman, pictured with his father John Foster Dulles and Spellman (partial newsreel).

    Cardinal Spellman In Indochina (1955)


    At long last the U.S., realizing that its strategy in that part of Asia was in serious danger, took action. The American Central Intelligence Agency, in cooperation with Vietnamese Buddhist elements, successfully engineered a coup. The extreme right-wing Catholics in the U.S. were no longer at the center of things as they had been under the Eisenhower administration although ironically they were now under an administration run by the first American Catholic President. Yet they were still on good terms with certain top elements of the CIA.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  12. Cyrano says:

    If you trip in your house and fell on a knife that’s somehow inconveniently sticking from the floor – it’s called domestic accident. If you instead took that knife and went to your neighbour’s house and tried to stage an “accident” there – it’s called murder. Apparently you have to be a genius to figure that one out.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  13. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What a good essay, one that should make Americans squirm. Mr. Pilger tells twice the truth and writes three times as well as several authors published here.

    Unless there are others in moderation, let this be the first comment about the apparently immortal Mr. Burns. I couldn’t get through his racialized, laughably cliché series on jazz, and have entirely avoided him since. Look at the picture, that outfit straight from a Hillary fundraiser at the community college. Just the man through whom the Establishment can reliably extrude a $marmy revision of Uncle Sam’s destruction of Vietnam. If he’s still around for a few years, I suppose he’ll be called upon to whitewash the GWOT, too.

    Sadly, most Americans avoid Mr. Pilger, preferring to flutter like moths around their TVs dominated by the likes of Mr. Burns.

    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  14. Rich says:

    Why say “as many as 4 million” (a number no historian has ever said)? Might as well say”as many as 40 billion.” Both numbers are false and I bet the 40 billion one will make Marx smile in Hell. Whether false flags took place or not, the battle to stop the murderous communists from raping and pillaging South Vietnam and others, was a noble one and every man who served deserves to be honored for their great sacrifice.

    The fact that every anti-American leftist has to cry “My Lai” over and over again shows that it was an anomaly. It wouldn’t be the same song every time if these types of incidents were typical. “War is hell,” an American general has often been quoted as saying, and he was right, but sometimes wars have to be fought and any person who stood up to the deranged communists was in the right.

    • Agree: anarchyst, MBlanc46
  15. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max


    From St. Patrick’s Cathedral, New York, Cardinal Spellman condemns the trial of Mindszenty.

    This slightly off-topic, but I found it to be highly interesting:

    Mind‐Control Studies Had Origins in Trial of Mindszenty

    WASHINGTON, Aug. 1—In the summer of 1977, it may be difficult for Americans to comprehend the frame of mind of the men who nearly 30 years earlier started the Central Intelligence Agency’s effort to manipulate human behavior.

    As some of the former high‐ranking C.I.A. men recall now, they had looked into the vacant eyes of Joseph Cardinal Mindszenty at his treason trial in Budapest in 1949 and had been horrified.

    They had been convinced that his confession had been wrung from him while he was either under the influence of some mysterious mind‐bending drug or that he was standing before the dock in a posthypnotic trance. The sight touched off memories of earlier “show trials” in the Soviet Union.

    The C.I.A. leaders were certain the Communists had embarked on a campaign to control men’s minds and they were determined to find a defense, setting out in earnest the next year‐1950—with Project Bluebird, which evolved into Project Artichoke, then became MKULTRA — MK — DELTA. With each code name change, they broadened their sweep, until there remained virtually no avenue of human behavior control they were not exploring.

  16. Mr. Pilger wrote:

    “I watched the first episode in New York. It leaves you in no doubt of its intentions right from the start. The narrator says the war “was begun in good faith by decent people out of fateful misunderstandings, American overconfidence and Cold War misunderstandings”.

    The dishonesty of this statement is not surprising. The cynical fabrication of “false flags” that led to the invasion of Vietnam is a matter of record – the Gulf of Tonkin “incident” in 1964, which Burns promotes as true, was just one.”


    I haven’t watched this series, but I thought McNamara slam dunked this myth in “The Fog of War”:

    From my blog:

    Oct 22, 2010 – American Arms for Ho Chi Minh

    I’m reading Col. Fletcher Prouty’s great book, “JFK”, which I will fully review when I finish. He writes that by the time Japan surrendered in 1945, the USA had amassed enough weapons, equipment, and supplies on the recently seized island of Okinawa to support a million man force to invade mainland Japan. Prouty was stationed on Okinawa and was shocked to learn that half of this stockpile was being shipped to Korea and the other half to Vietnam. Was the Pentagon preparing for future conflicts, or preparing to ignite them?

    …American OSS officers helped supply Vietminh guerillas to fight Japanese occupiers late in WW II. Ho Chi Minh admired the USA, our struggle for independence, and our constitution. (Pictured with a beard among American advisors in 1945.) He spoke excellent French, having lived in Paris for 30 years and fought for the French during WW I. He assumed the USA would support his dream of independence after World War II. His Vietminh controlled most of the nation by the end of 1945 since the French fled when Japan invaded.

    The alleged purpose of this OSS training and arming of the Vietminh makes little sense. (The OSS became the CIA in 1947.) The U.S. military had bypassed Indochina a year prior. Its forces were fighting in the Philippines far to the north and closing in on mainland Japan. The few thousand Japanese garrison troops in Indochina were isolated and no threat to the main war effort. So why did the OSS devote considerable resources to arming and training revolutionaries in Vietnam?

    Prouty notes the massive post-war American arms shipments allowed the Vietminh to build a formidable army. Why was this done? A strong, independent, American allied Vietnam could help contain Mao’s communist movement. However, Prouty believes this was a sinister mission by the secretive Military-Industrial complex to instigate another war. When French troops arrived to reclaim Vietnam, they encountered a large, well-equipped Vietminh army. They required billions of dollars in American military aid to combat the Vietminh. After the French failed, the CIA entered the fray with covert arms shipments and trainers for the weak French appointed puppet government of South Vietnam. The CIA slowly pulled the U.S. military into a war that produced a trillion dollars in war business for the Military-Industrial complex.

    • Replies: @Didi
    , @Carroll Price
  17. There are questions as to why the “American Left” is no longer antiwar. One must understand that there are two “American Lefts” – a true left personified by those attracted to Bernie Sanders’ socialistic, New Deal platform and the Clinton Left – attracted to the Establishment Democratic Party – a corporatized segment of the population mostly concerned with self-aggrandizement, identity politics, promotion of Israel, and the destruction of Donald Trump. Trump is hated by this Clinton Left because he stopped the coronation of the “first woman President” and also for his use of vulgar terms for female sex organs. The American Left is not connected as a single entity – it will soon self-divide. The Sanders half will be anti-war, pro-poor, and anti-Zionist. The Clinton half will continue to bemoan the lack of support from the Sanders half.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Kiza
    , @MBlanc46
  18. anarchyst says:

    The author of this article has shown his ineptitude and lack of reason by praising Michael Moore. His “schlockumentary” Roger and Me was based on a false premise. GM CEO Roger Smith offered to meet with Michael Moore while filming his movie, but was rebuffed as it would have destroyed Moore’s whole false premise for his “film”.
    As for Moore’s “schlockumentary” on the American health care system, he left out many important facts, such as, in most other countries with “socialized medicine” one must still purchase supplementary “health insurance” in order to have a modicum of decent health care. Add to that, the waiting times in most countries who have socialized medicine is quite often counter to best medical practices. While praising Cuba’s rudimentary “socialized medicine” (where party official still travel abroad for medical treatment) he conveniently leaves out the fact than ANYONE who walks into an American hospital WILL BE TREATED…
    Michael Moore is a charlatan, no better than a propagandist.
    John Pilger…you should know better…

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
  19. anarchyst says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    Watergate was one of the most successful “coups” placed by the left. All of the analysis of this event leaves out the simple fact that it was an act of revenge, acted on by those of the left.
    “Deep Throat” was none other than Mark Felt. His reason for going after Nixon was the fact that he expected to be appointed as the director of the FBI,but was bypassed in favor of L. Patrick Gray. This one act set the wheels in motion and led to the first resignation of a sitting U. S. president.

    • Replies: @utu
  20. Old Guy says:

    People have forgotten just how corrupt the South Vietnamese government was. The Vietnamese generals were up to their necks in the drug trade, to the point that they were selling heroin to our GIs.
    “The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, by Alfred W.McCoy says it all. The worst thing is that our government knew about it, but did nothing.

  21. imbroglio says:

    Vietnam is getting its revenge, don’t you think?

    The anti-warriors of yesteryear and their children and grandchildren are obsessed with race and gender and couldn’t, on the whole, care less about “foreign wars.” The goal is to dissolve the “idea” called America and its embodiment in the entity called the United States. Ideally, they’ll swap the Deplorables for the poor and the ambitious from other places.

    The anti-war demonstrators of yore shouted at the enlistees, “You don’t have to go! Resist! We’ll help!” But many patriotic young Americans, as propagandized then as they are now, only differently, answered their country’s call and went. So.

    Anyhow, why are you wearing last year’s fashions? It’s 2017. Aren’t you going to blame the Jews?

    • Replies: @JVC
  22. Xerxes says:

    He intends to protect his country. So, the first likely target will probably be the American carrier groups, which only a nuke can destroy, and not American territory or S.Korea. After that, who knows what will happen. Perhaps America should stop coveting other peoples wealth and property and take their dirty wars back home.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  23. Mork D says:

    You must watch the news channels designed to scare you. Kim will never, ever, ever actually preemptively attack the USA. He’s smart, he’s seen what happens to dictators the American establishment wants dead, and views correctly that the only feasible way to preserve North Korean sovereignty (however odious that country might seem) and keep himself not only in power, but also alive, is to develop nukes. They are the trump card, defensively.

    The USA is the aggressor here – what business do we have sticking our noses in and keeping tens of thousands of American troops staged on the border of a country that has never threatened us?

    How would you feel if, for example, China had carpet bombed us back in the early 50s, leveling cities and killing millions upon millions of civilians, saying they did so because they disagreed with our style of government, and then kept millions of troops (being relative here, as he US is much larger than N Korea) on our border for the last 60 years along with enforcing crippling sanctions designed to keep the survivors living in abject poverty? And then suddenly, shortly after China had overthrown and caused the death of two leaders of countries halfway around the world from them and plunged their countries into chaos, starting using the same rhetoric directed at you, demanding regime change and submission? You probably wouldn’t like it either. Why, you might justifiably grow up hating the Chinese!

  24. Mork D says:

    We had to destroy them in order to save them, eh?

    And since when is it anti-American to oppose sending American children overseas to die so that we can interfere in the affairs of sovereign nations whose actions barely affect us? Send your children into the meat grinder so that the defense contractors can get rich and corporations can plunder the riches of other countries under the aegis of America First style leaders we install in other countries.

    It’s jingoistic, wrap myself in the flag while wiping myself with the Constitution, send-in-the-army folks like yourself who oppose actual American values and are therefore the real anti-Americans here.

    • Replies: @Rich
  25. mr meener says:

    you have to be beyond insane to think kim would launch a nuke at the US. he wants nukes after seeing saddam give up imaginary nukes get hung and gadaffi give up non existent nukes to get a bayonet rammed up his azz. kim is not dumb almost genius level in math and physics speaks 4 languages and is a pilot. he does not want to be attacked. the insane people are the ones asking him to end up like gaddafi. we attacked Iraq not cause they had WMD’s but BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE WMD’s

  26. mr meener says:

    what a war mongering idiot who sits on the couch while others die. the north and south reunited and the US now trades with them. I have clothes made in Vietnam.

  27. Great article Mr. Pilger. I have been reading your articles for at least 50 years now, starting with the Daily Mirror, so you must be getting up in age, but still as relevant as ever.

    Donald Trump is quite right that the American mass media is mostly lies and propaganda, but unfortunately he is totally back-to-front in sorting out the truth from the lies.

    Kim seems to have got his number, and ‘dotard’ is not a bad description for a once smart man who is now clearly in his dotage. Does anyone else see similarities between King Lear and Donald Trump?

  28. Taras77 says:

    Agree! All wars are bankers wars!

    I was there for three tours, 27 months total. What a total waste.

  29. JVC says:

    My opinion, Rich, is that you have no idea of what you speak. Unfortunately, most of us who were there are well aged now, but we do remember what that “war” was all about—the very thing that Marine General Butler wrote about in war is a racket. The USG has not fought a war since before (maybe) the Spanish/American that benefited anyone in this country other than the military/industrial/security/congressional complex. Ask yourself just what all that expenditure of blood and treasure ever changed. The honest answer has to be nothing.

    • Replies: @Rich
  30. JVC says:

    The anti-war demonstrators of yore shouted at the enlistees, “You don’t have to go! Resist! We’ll help!” But many patriotic young Americans, as propagandized then as they are now, only differently, answered their country’s call and went.

    Aye, many fit your description, , but many had no choice other than jail or leaving the country. The draft ended because the powers that be realized that it was the draft that made the war so unpopular, and was the reason behind much of the antiwar movement.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  31. Rich says:
    @Mork D

    I’m anti-American? Really? Because I pointed out that the men who fought against the evils of communism were doing the right thing? That they were honorable? You should probably read a little about communism and what communists did to people. You can start with the Russian Revolution, peruse the various Eastern European tyrannies, then move onto China and the rest of Asia, where they triumphed. You can make the argument that America shouldn’t have sent her children to fight that battle, but she did, let’s deal with the actual history. If you want to use the lesson of Vietnam to prevent further foreign wars, no problem. Doesn’t change the fact that the war happened and, in the end, it was a righteous cause.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    , @Biff
  32. Rich says:

    I guess you’re implying that you fought in Vietnam and have come to the conclusion that the war was ignoble. I disagree with you. A lot of people disagree with you. Most of the Vietnam vets I know disagree with you. Don’t you feel a little funny siding with the writer of this piece who is basically saying that you and your fellow vets were murderous barbarians? Mr Pilger is saying that you and your fellow vets are war criminals. Do you really agree with that? I certainly don’t.

    • Replies: @Posa
    , @JVC
    , @Moi
  33. posa says:

    “was begun in good faith by decent people out of fateful misunderstandings, American overconfidence and Cold War misunderstandings”.

    Yes. Nauseating. However, if you stick with the series it does reveal — quietly– that the Tonkin Gulf affair was not based on soliod evidence and that LBJ and his advisors knew that… indeed they encouraged the SV to attack NV islands in and around international waters.

    It is also clear that McNamara knew that victory claims were phony and Vietnam was not winnable. And that McNamara kept silent…hour after hour of the Burns’ series belies the initial claims.

    I took part in anti-war demos and indeed the absolute collapse of the Left anti-war movement is sickening… the only real anti-war opposition comes from a small faction of libertarians at

    So disgusting to see Obama and Clinton celebrated by the Left Liberals.

    • Replies: @GilGamesh
  34. Posa says:

    There was NEVER anything honorable or legitimate about the Vietnam War… the Cold War itself was entirely bogus from the start … partly to pump up the US economy through Military Keynesian policies; partly a new form of US colonial exploitation; partly the beginnings of the US Establishment lusting after a New British Empire and global Hyper-Power status.

    Vietnam was preceded by huge war crimes in the Dresden Firebombing and A-Bombs in Japan (performed to send a big message to Stalin than any legitimate targets); then the massacres in Korea. Vietnam was followed by serial mass murder- genocide in Central America, then expanded to burn down most of the Middle East and into Ukraine..

    The US is a rabid dog that must be stopped. That time has come in Syrian and NKOR… plus the US establishment has pauperized the US workforce and bankrupted the economy… time for the Yankees to Come Home and rebuild America… Fire the US Predator Class.

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @MBlanc46
  35. JVC says:

    Are you a VietNam vet??? Most (maybe) all of my brother VN vets agree with me, and to a certain extent Mr. Pilger, and I know this because I meet with my brothers in group once a week for at least the last 15 years. You do understand that it was not the grunts responsible for the mass killings, although they (we) did pull the triggers–it was policy from on high, Westy at the very minimum. Mi Lai was not an isolated “accident”, and it was because of such doings that so many VN veterans have checked out early through suicide and/or self medication. Of course the war was “ignoble” name one that wasn’t/is. The need to fight the”evils” of communism was just another excuse to enrich certain individuals / companies, no different from the excuses used to invade Iraq, Afghanistan, destroy Libya by air, and wreck havoc in numerous other countries today.

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @anarchyst
  36. dearieme says:

    I disagree. There are occasions when it’s a point worth making, namely when Americans – especially politicians – are being at their most pompous, preachy, and hypocritical.

  37. dearieme says:

    I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Cyrano
    , @Kiza
    , @syonredux
  38. Rich says:

    Really? Nothing honorable? So I guess the Reds should have been allowed to take over the world? Obviously you’re either pink, ignorant of what the commies did to the people under their tyranny, or a full blown Marxist. Whatever evil you accuse the US of committing (Dresden was a British operation), it pales in the face of the evil the communists committed.

    If, in fact, you’re just ignorant of the actions of the communists, I urge you to read some of the many memoirs of the era. Solzhenitsyn might be a good place to start your journey.

    • Replies: @didi
  39. Rich says:

    I served in the US Army after the Vietnam War, but there were still plenty of Vietnam War vets around, as well as having several relatives who fought there, and having spent quite a bit of time studying the War, both in college and after. The men I know who served there are honorable men who deny the participation in any war crimes. You, apparently, from what you appear to be writing, did engage in war crimes and now associate with other vets who did the same. My research, as well as personal conversations with soldiers who served there, shows that such actions were extremely rare, and well policed by the US Military.
    It’s probably similar to when you meet a thief, he associates with other thieves, so believes that all other people are also thieves. But, whatever the case, if you’re feeling guilty about any illegal actions you committed during your time in the War, I’d suggest you speak to your priest, minister or rabbi, then maybe turn yourself in either to the Vietnamese government, or the Hague. Or maybe even the US Military police.
    Again, I assure you, from my extensive research and study, what you are confessing to, was not the experience of the overwhelming majority of Vietnam vets.

    • Replies: @JVC
    , @The Scalpel
    , @DanFromCt
  40. @dearieme

    Pol Pot was enabled by the Central Intelligence Agency and the American war in Vietnam much as Isis was enabled by the CIA and American war in Iraq.

    Sihanouk was the neutralist leader of Cambodia who refused to abandon Cambodian neutrality. He refused to get on board with the United States’ effort in Vietnam, and consequently was removed from power by a CIA-sponsored coup led by Lon Nol, a general in the Cambodian military. Nol’s performance as an American puppet lead directly to the uprising by the Khmer Rouge, and the overthrow of his puppet government. The Khmer Rouge then emptied the cities of the comprador class, the bureaucratic minions of the puppet government. They were taken away from their elite cosmopolitan way of life and marched out into the countryside to endure in the hardscrabble life of the peasantry. Those who objected were killed. You’ve probably never heard Cambodian history of that period explained that way.

    Similarly, in Iraq, the United States disposed of Saddam’s government, which then fled across the border into Syria to wait out the United States occupation. Then, always so very clever and with excellent timing, the United States decided to get rid of Assad. (On behalf of Israel, per the Oded Yinon plan). Stupidity is not an impediment to American foreign policy.

    Once Assad’s forces came under attack, they quite naturally redeployed to protect themselves. That meant effectively withdrawing from the underpopulated Eastern region of Syria, pulling back into defensible positions. This was an unexpected opportunity for the exiled Sunni remnants of the former Saddam regime.

    With the Assad regime under attack and unable to maintain control of the Sunni heartland of the upper Euphrates Valley, the Saddam remnants joined with Al-Qaeda and the influx of Wahabi fighters, split off to become ISIS, formed the caliphate, and stormed across the Syrian/Iraqi border to take possession of Mosul and Anbar. That’s how the US & the CIA manufactured the Syrian uprising, founded and armed ISIS and al Qaeda, and set about murdering Syrians and Iraqis by the hundreds of thousands.

    All to make the world safe for Israel.

    • Agree: The Scalpel
    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  41. AP says:

    He is a pro-Communist idiot from either Bulgaria or Macedonia, and largely incapable of making points. But also funny, in that his main insults consist of attributes that are typical of his own people.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @Cyrano
  42. @Old Guy

    Au contraire. The U.S. government “did something”. They profited off the sales of the heroin…at least the CIA division did.

  43. didi says:

    Regrettably this author’s dislike of the Vietnam series and his contempt for Burns has blinded him to the fact that this deeply flawed product nevertheless tells us exactly why there is no antiwar movement today comparable to that of the Vietnam years. Just one example. The budding antiwar movement of the Vietnam years got a big boost when the Johnson administration began to draft college students. Today college students are not drafted. For our college students today and many others our “military advisers/trainers” around the world seem to be a sort of international police. Maybe they should not be there. Maybe they should be there. OK as long as I am not commandeered. Getting on and a decent job in the USA is hard enough. Why fuck up my life by demonstrating and get fired? Or be refused to be hired?
    The 1950’s and 1960’s were also the birth years of one of the most powerful and pampered working classes the world has known: the white US middle class. It was on the rise. Moreover Vietnam rebellion and protest had been preceded by the sit-ins and the huge civil rights demonstrations.
    Today the middle class which provided many leaders of the antiwar 60’s and 70’s is in a defensive crouch. Don’t rock the boat. Middle classes rebel. They never make revolutions.
    Yet there are some glimmers of hope. Today the protest marches against Trump policies (Obamacare, DACA) could be the analogs of the civil rights marches of the 60’s and 70’s. The problem is that no government today will draft college students.
    John P. how could you miss that?

  44. JVC says:

    Nice try, Rich, but I did not “confess” to anything, and have no need to do so. The veterans I associate with on a weekly basis (both of my war and the more recent ones) are all “honorable” men, and I’d trust any of them with my back over an apologist such as yourself. Apparently what your studies did not teach you is the fact that the mere presence of the US military in VietNam, just as in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc is by definition a war crime–read the UN charter about when it is legal to invade another country, and under what circumstances. Of course international law and rules never do apply to the “indispensable nation” so we often accuse others of doing the very same things we ARE doing.

    You talk the standard talk about the communists taking over the world, when such was not going to happen. In fact, communism/socialism is always bound to fail, and has. Even the socialist try to take over this country will find that they soon run out of other people’s money. It’s funny how we have become our enemy–think about it.

    But never mind, our country is rapidly sliding the downslope, and it will all end soon. The days of the empire are numbered–simple because like communism, all empires fall. If you have really studied history, you would know that, and instead of wrapping yourself in the flag singing the star spangled banner, you would be working with the various (real) patriot groups in trying to bring this country back to the constitutional republic it once was. Some how, what you have had to say reminds me of the proverbial christmas turkey.

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @didi
    , @MBlanc46
  45. didi says:

    My Lai was not the big JFK/Johnson/Nixon crime in Vietnam. The big crime was chemical warfare specifically the use of Agent Orange and Napalm.

  46. didi says:

    Since you use the word Marxist and you aver elsewhere on this site to have made many studies of communism you should know that neither the Bolshevik revolution of 1917 not the Chinese revolution after 1945 resulted in communist states/societies. The Soviet Union started as a Leninist state which morphed into a Stalinist state. The Chinese revolution produced a Maoist state and society. The Stalinist Soviet Union which was a Czarist Russia of reduced size had no intent to take over the world. Its exterior aims were almost the same as that of Czarist Russia after the Trotskyites of “permanent revolution” were eradicated.
    Red China taking over the world? Yes, economically but not by military occupation. At the time of the Vietnam war pig iron was not yet made in the backyards of Chinese farmers. Mao had internal struggles and had no intention to “take over the world”.
    By the way, Dresden was a joint British-US operation. Yes, the first raid was British. The second was American. You need to get your history straight.

  47. The Scalpel says: • Website

    Uhhhh, you do know that the cmm nists won, don’t you? You do know that they are somewhat of an ally to the US nowadays? Don’t you? Tell me about all the raping and pillaging going on, or that has gone on since they won

    • Replies: @Anon
  48. Rich says:

    Well. I’m glad you clarified that you, personally, didn’t commit any war crimes. When you said that you were responsible for “pulling the trigger” and that My Lai “wasn’t an isolated accident” I thought you were confessing to having taken part in other such “accidents.” You write of the fellows in your therapy group that you would trust them with your back and that they are honorable men, I’d assume that they didn’t go around committing war crimes, either. So then are you admitting that you have no special knowledge of war crimes committed by Americans?

    If you’ve somehow interpreted the UN charter to call the US involvement in Vietnam a “war crime” you’re skating on the thinnest of ice. The US was in Vietnam at the invitation of the legitimate South Vietnamese government, defending them from an illegal invasion by the North Vietnamese communists and the terror attacks of the Viet Cong.

    You may feel confident, now that the advance of communism has been slowed and even reversed, that it would never have spread, But the millions who suffered under it, and the millions who fought against it, would disagree with you.

    • Replies: @JVC
  49. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @The Scalpel

    It did, hence the thousands of refugees.

  50. The Scalpel says: • Website

    Nothing personal, but you Sir, are an ignoramus

    • Replies: @Rich
  51. Rich says:
    @The Scalpel

    Personal? I have no idea who you are, so it can’t be personal. Unable to make a reasonable argument, you break out your thesaurus and write out what, for you, is a great witticism. Congratulations. Now go wash up and brush your teeth, it’s bed time.

  52. JVC says:

    If you’ve somehow interpreted the UN charter to call the US involvement in Vietnam a “war crime” you’re skating on the thinnest of ice. The US was in Vietnam at the invitation of the legitimate South Vietnamese government, defending them from an illegal invasion by the North Vietnamese communists and the terror attacks of the Viet Cong.

    this statement has no truth to it at all, unless you consider a dictatorship imposed on the Vietnamese (south) by the CIA legitimate.

    Hope that your “studies” have taught you that Ho Chi Minh didn’t start out as a communist–He fought for the French in WWI after which Wilson refused to even consider his request for independence for his country . He was a US ally against the Japanese in WWII, (as was mao BTY) and this time his request for independence was laughed off by Truman –keeping the French colonial empire was much more important –economically for the French, and to a degree the US. The revolution was against the french for independence, and after DienBien phu, (did your “extensive studies” tell you about the US soldiers who were there) Ho was once again screwed by the US with the promise of free and fair elections in the south within 2 years–CIA knew he would win so the free and fair elections never happened and Diem was installed as a military dictator instead. Oh sure–he won a rigged election with 98% of the vote, but the common folk of the south wanted nothing to do with him nor his string pullers in the US consulate. In fact, just like every other country we have screwed with, all the people wanted was a chance to go about their business in peace–something that was denied them in VietNam for essentially 35 years, first by the French, followed by the good old USA.

    Maybe you’ll get around to studying the CIA, and it’s continuing roll in creating chaos, along with the MIC where ever, when ever it wants around the world, and that the one president that saw through them, and Allen Dullas in particular was taken out in the coup d’etat of Nov 63. Probably not though since from what you have said, your “studies” don’t amount to much learning at all.

    have a nice day, but spread your my country tis to be BS elsewhere OK???

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @Alden
  53. didi says:

    There exists an example of a republic (constitutions were unknown at the time but the people did have some rights) which morphed into a kingdom under external pressure. That was the Dutch Republic of the Seven Provinces. It did have a hereditary head but that “Stadholder” could be and was once shoved aside. The external pressure was the French revolution and the occupation of the Republic by Napoleon’s troops. It was actually Napoleon who changed the country from a republic to a kingdom when he appointed his brother King of the Netherlands. Here is the fascinating manner in which the House of Orange next became the Dutch ruling family. When the Prince of Orange returned from exile in England after Napoleon was sent to St. Helena his advisers told him something like “Sire, there is already a Kingdom of the Netherlands but there is no King. Why don’t you claim to be the King”? I am not kidding. No one was asked. The war-tired nation was told.
    The Netherlands got a constitution in 1848.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  54. Didi says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    The Burns film correctly points out that Ho Chi Minh, at the time a kitchen assistant at the Ritz hotel in Paris during the Paris Peace Conference after WW1, tried to send a letter to President Wilson in which he asked the President to apply the principle of self determination hence freedom from the French for his country of Vietnam. Wilson probably never got the letter.
    Less well known is that Syngman Rhee, a Korean graduate from Princeton University, was refused a visa to travel to Paris to plead for an independent Korea via self-determination.
    In 1919 Vietnam and Korea were absolute non-entities at the Paris Peace Conference. Furthermore both countries were colonies of Allied partners: France and Japan. There was no way that anyone could have advocated freedom for Vietnam without Clemenceau exploding in blazing anger. Lloyd George would have supported him. As to Korea: the Japanese delegation would have probably left Paris with the message “come and get it if you dare”. Or with silence.
    That raises an interesting question: who are the Minh’s and Rhee’s today?

  55. Didi says:

    The statements of Donald Trump at the United Nations on 19 September are another textbook example that history is a chain of unintended consequences. Korea was overrun and colonized by Japan in 1910. Not one of the major powers of the time France, Great Britain, Germany, and Russia lifted a finger. Korea was not discussed during the 1919 Paris Peace Conference and the League of Nations ignored Korea (and Vietnam too). Self-determination was intended for the white Western people such as the Poles and Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians and Yugoslavs. There are the roots of today’s dangerous confrontation. I am absolutely certain that the same kinds of actions with serious unintended consequences for the distant future are made today by all heads of governments everywhere.

  56. Rich says:

    South Vietnam was an actual government, whether you call it legitimate or not. It was at least as legitimate as that of the North, and more so because it rejected the death cult of communism.

    Do you really believe Ho Chi Minh wasn’t a communist? Really? Explain that to all his comrades and countrymen who called themselves communists, acted like communists and accepted aid from communists. I’m sorry, Ho was a Red through and through. If the US prevented Ho from taking over South Vietnam after the withdrawal of the French, it was to stop the spread of communism that brought with it murder and poverty. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion that Ho would have won an election, but that’s something we’ll never know for sure.

    I thank you for your kind wishes that I have a nice day and hope for the same for you and yours.

    • Replies: @GailStorm
    , @JVC
  57. Mulegino1 says:

    One would have to look back a long way to find an American war that was not based upon falsehoods, distortion and outright fabrication. Maybe the War of 1812 might do.

    Exposing America’s involvement in the Second World War in Europe as a disgusting and evil exercise in Atlanticist Zionist imperialism, though, is the absolute sine qua non for deflating the bloated balloon of the exceptionalism of the US brand. It was done primarily for commercial and financial reasons and it was a direct and inevitable consequence of Mr. Wilson’s catastrophic decision to involve this country in the First World War. Never in his wildest dreams did Hitler envision conquering the world. He desired German sovereignty and living space for the German people (but not genocide of anyone, whether Jew or Slav) and for Germany to assume her rightful place as the preeminent power on the Continent.

    True patriots will love America for its true raison d’etre, i.e., its providing a home and refuge for the long suffering peoples of Christian Europe and assuming its inevitable role as a great, inward looking, tellurocratic power. Never in a million years would the founders, or even Lincoln, envisioned America as becoming a dystopian, multi-cultural hegemon.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  58. GailStorm says:

    There is plenty opposition to the wars but mostly from people who have no say, no power and definitely aren’t going to be invited on tv soon to debate; which is to say a sizable chunk of most of the public. And when someone “newsworthy” does say something, it is crickets in terms of coverage. The numbers are out there, it is just the powers-that-be are working hard to keep them from finding each other. Cue social media, however, and you will see they are there.

  59. GailStorm says:

    If you want murder and poverty, no one does that better than the U.S., at home and abroad.

  60. @Logan

    What should we do if Kim launches nukes at the US?

    We should already have warned the entities that have assisted the Norks. Iran, who helps with and sells missile tech, the Russians, who supply and sell air defense systems to the Norks, and China, who arms them with anti-ship cruise missiles and who has kept them fed throughout their buildup. The warning should be simple, as in, “anything the Norks deliver to the United States will be responded to upon each of those countries in triplicate”. Nork is THEIR client, enabled by them, collectively. And so they bear responsibility for their client. Deterrence. Remember that term? We get nuked, YOU get nuked. Nice, simple, cleaner by far than conventional wars, if less profitable, of course.

    Other than that, on a conventional warfare level, there’s nothing we CAN do. Carriers groups? Can’t get close enough because of the missile environment. Who knows whether their air defenses can fox our stealth and we don’t get to find out until we take a crack at it, which would be very bad policy given the unknowns, not that our Generals are immune to bad policy. As for a landing for conventional armies and troops? Fuggetaboutit. We’re tapped out. Getting Seoul, SK destroyed ought to be another thought for them to consider, also.

    And so, Trump should get to nuking the Norks or simply issue his warnings and promises to Russia, China and Iran to control their client and call it a day. The daily drama is nonsensical. And stupid. And retarded. And dangerous. And most of all, unseemly.

    • Replies: @Logan
    , @Santos
  61. Daniel Ellsberg rightly called it a coup. The three generals running Trump are its witness.
    All of this fails to penetrate those “liberal brains pickled in the formaldehyde of identity politics”, as Luciana Bohne noted memorably. Commodified and market-tested, “diversity” is the new liberal brand, not the class people serve regardless of their gender and skin colour: not the responsibility of all to stop a barbaric war to end all wars.

    Those sons-a-bitches were brilliant in that they turned military service into all-vol. Without any skin in the game, with no more draft, the colleges and the left and the alphabet soup of sexual depravity were able to turn their attention toward their own perversions instead of protesting the Generals’ perversions. Best part for the MIC is they don’t even have to vote funding for these wars, it’s all black-budget, SOCOM runs the contractors in and out of all these countries and no Congressman is ever questioned or held responsible. It’s pure profit and everyone in DC gets a piece, the region is the world’s richest not by accident, all the defense contractors have move to Arlington and Fairfax County. That Tyson’s Corner-Pentagon City corridor is a Who’s Who of the Military Industrial Complex. Throw in the General-enriching revolving door of the Pentagon, the contractors, the think tanks, Academia and the cabinet positions at the White House and we’ve built a massive profit center that isn’t going away without a fight. Forget it, it’s not going away, period, because we’re all out of fight in this country

    Best part for the Generals is, they don’t even have to win a skirmish. Pity there’s no accountability to the taxpayer. I mean, shouldn’t some of these Generals have to demonstrate a success SOMEWHERE? They’re getting rich off getting our American asses kicked all over the world. And the Big Three in the White House today are the biggest losers in their trade since Saddam Hussein.

    They killed manufacturing, sent the blue-collar children of the unemployed into the military and the college kids that ought to have skin in the game and should be protesting the spending of their legacy couldn’t care less. 45 years into the All-Vol era, most Americans don’t have or know anyone in the military and so what do they care of the farmer’s or laborer’s son dying in these wars? No skin off their noses. And that’s the most dangerous part of all.

  62. dearieme says:

    Thanks, AP. And to think there were ages when the Balkans were more civilised than the rest of Europe.

  63. dearieme says:

    There exists an example of a republic which morphed into a kingdom under internal pressure. After Cromwell’s death the question was what was to become of his Republic/Protectorate in the British Isles. His son took over briefly but showed neither aptitude nor appetite for the job.

    Matters were settled by General Monk leading his army south from Scotland, moving cautiously and endlessly consulting the politically important classes. He decided that the population was tired of civil war and military rule, and opted for the restoration of Charles II. The parliaments of Scotland and Ireland were restored too.

  64. dearieme says:

    “Maybe the War of 1812 might do.” Hoots of merry laughter. The pretexts had nothing to do with the causes, so much so that at the peace negotiations the US didn’t even raise the question of its pretexts. It was a perfectly normal US war of aggression, the only sort of war that the US fought until 1941.

  65. A better plea for the historical accuracy of “The Vietnam War” could have hardly been given by mr. Pilger. How damning and discrediting it would be if activists like him, invested in a very particular, narrow reading of history to conform to their ideology in the most uncomplicated way possible, would have been enamored of the work.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  66. @Carlton Meyer

    Prouty notes the massive post-war American arms shipments allowed the Vietminh to build a formidable army. Why was this done? A strong, independent, American allied Vietnam could help contain Mao’s communist movement. However, Prouty believes this was a sinister mission by the secretive Military-Industrial complex to instigate another war. When French troops arrived to reclaim Vietnam, they encountered a large, well-equipped Vietminh army. They required billions of dollars in American military aid to combat the Vietminh.

    So, in effect, nothing has changed. The CIA (OSS at that time) supplied arms to both sides in the Vietnam civil war, as they continue doing in Syria and several other places today.

  67. @JVC

    The draft ended because the powers that be realized that it was the draft that made the war so unpopular, and was the reason behind much of the antiwar movement


    Which makes a strong argument in favor of re-instating the draft. Any war worth fighting should be willingly and eagerly participated in by all of America’s children. Not just by children of the poor, the ignorant and the naïve.

    • Replies: @JVC
    , @Escher
    , @Alden
  68. @Rich

    Your blind spot is centered around the mistaken notion that the Vietnam War was waged to contain Communism. It wasn’t. Neither are the current wars being waged to supposedly contain terrorism. I judge your comments as sincere and your intentions good, but you really do need to get out ahead of the narrative by recognizing war propaganda for what it is, and always been.

    • Replies: @Rich
  69. Rich says:
    @Carroll Price

    Okay, say you’re right, say the whole point of the war was to make huge profits for evil Robber Barons (a point I don’t agree with). It still had the effect of slowing the advance of the Reds and that, in and of itself, was a noble effort.

    I don’t understand why it’s so hard for people to understand that there can be more than one motivation for a government fighting a war. Sure, there was war profiteering during the Vietnam War, but there were also those who had seen what communists did to the innocent and wanted to prevent that.

    • Replies: @JVC
    , @daniel le mouche
  70. Our Secretary of Defense during the war, Robert McNamara, admitted that he had thought it was all about stopping the commies too! In 1995, he was shocked to learn that China was Vietnam’s enemy for the past thousand years, and that the Vietnamese were fighting for independence, as this great, short video clip explains:

  71. JVC says:

    Morning Rich, I didn’t realize that you had a reading disability, so let me point out that nowhere in my post did I say Ho was not a communist–just that he didn’t start out that way. Same could be said of several other “revolutionaries” also

    There have been a lot of “socialist”-ie. populist elected government that the USG declared “communist” and over threw through active coups, or rigged elections (no other country has a record of doing that more than the USA) those legitimate (popularly elected) governments and installed military strong men/dictators who would bow to every USG demand. This started out side the “US sphere of Interest” in Iran in 1954, (well, actually, the CIA had a big role in the Italian elections in 46) although it had been a common occurrence in South/central America well before then. Most times it worked, sometimes it didn’t.

    So , I guess that you are OK with the USG desire to rule the world–what it has been working towards ever since the end of WWII. Too bad people such as yourself cannot understand that the biggest obstacle to world peace is the USG–the most aggressive, war mongering government in recent history. If you look close enough, you will see the USG (CIA-same same) hand stoking the fire in every hot spot around the world today.

    The USG always needs and “enemy” in order to justify the excessive amount of $s sucked up by the war industry every year, –Communism had a good run in that role, and with the end of the Soviet Union, there was a big scramble to find another. Global war on Terrorism also worked for a while, but people were starting to see through that also as it turn’s out that every “home grown” attack was either by someone the feds had their eyes on, or the FBI set up. So now we are back to Russia, with a little side dish of NK. Hopefully, the empire falls apart due to it’s arrogance and hubris before it does something really stupid.

    • Replies: @Rich
  72. JVC says:
    @Carroll Price

    Carol, I totally agree, and think that the children of our politicians who support the notion of continuous war should be the very first selected. That may be the only way to stop the insanity that seems to have overtaken DC

  73. JVC says:

    Sure, there was war profiteering during the Vietnam War, but there were also those who had seen what communists did to the innocent and wanted to prevent that.

    By doing much the same, eh??

    • Agree: Cyrano
  74. Rich says:

    Communism needed to be stopped at all costs. Obviously you are unfamiliar with what the communists did to people under their rule.
    If the CIA had a role in the Italian elections of 1946 they must have invented a time machine, since the CIA wasn’t founded until 1947. But good for whoever did help the Italians from being taken over by the murderous Reds. For more information on the Italian commies you might want to read some Eugenio Corti, a writer who served with the Italian Army on the Russian Front.

  75. Cyrano says:

    And you are pro-Nazi s*itbag who has found his soulmate in this moron dearieme. I hope your romance blossoms – you have so much in common.

  76. Cyrano says:

    That’s exactly what I am talking about – you have no idea about anything.

  77. FKA Max says: • Website


    I just shared a comment on the CIA, etc., that might interest you:

    If the CIA had a role in the Italian elections of 1946 they must have invented a time machine, since the CIA wasn’t founded until 1947.

    You are probably aware of this already but just for clarity’s sake, since your comment seems kind of disingenuous to me:

    he served as chief of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the wartime predecessor to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). In 1941, the year before the OSS was officially constituted, Donovan forged a close alliance with Father Felix Morlion, founder of a European Catholic intelligence service known as Pro Deo. When the Germans overran western Europe, Donovan helped Morlion move his base of operations from Lisbon to New York. From then on, Pro Deo was financed by Donovan, who believed that such an expenditure would result in valuable insight into the secret affairs of the Vatican, then a neutral enclave in the midst of fascist Rome. When the Allies liberated Rome in 1944, Morlion re-established his spy network in the Vatican;… – The CIA and the Vatican’s Intelligence Apparatus By Martin A. Lee | July/August 1983 Issue
    Mother Jones

    You don’t have answer this question if you deem it too personal, but are you and were you raised Catholic?

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  78. Was any of Gareth Porter’s work on Viet Nam used in the Burns production?

    Porter wrote:

    1976 Peace Denied: United States, Vietnam and the Paris Agreement

    Reviewed by Gaddis Smith
    A first-rate piece of contemporary diplomatic history: clear, well-documented, objective, and yet forthright in condemnation. The major theme is that between 1946 and 1975 great powers (France and the U.S.) consistently tried to undermine with force signed agreements which, if followed, threatened to undermine client regimes. The persuasive pivotal argument is that the Christmas bombing of Hanoi and Haiphong by the U.S. in 1972 did contribute to the signing of the Paris accords of January 1973, not by coercing the North Vietnamese but by so undermining domestic and international tolerance for the Nixon Administration that it was forced to accept in January the very terms which it had rejected in October.

    1976 Cambodia: Starvation and Revolution (co-authored w/ George C Hildebrand)

    1981 The Third Indochina Conflict (co-authored w/ David Elliott)

    1981 Vietnam: A History in Documents (Gareth Porter, editor)

    1993 Vietnam: The Politics of Bureaucratic Socialism (Politics & International Relations of Southeast Asia)

    1995 Current History: A Journal of Contemporary World Affairs, December 1995, Vol. 94, No. 596: Southeast Asia (co-authored w/ Frederick Z. Brown)

    (2006) Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam

    “Mr. Porter argues that the U.S became involved in the Vietnam War as a step to achieve global dominance. Mr. Porter says that top advisers for Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson were eager to go to war in order to exploit the U.S. military advantage over its rivals. The author highlights the similarities between the motives behind U.S. involvement in Vietnam and the current occupation of Iraq.”

    (Porter’s most recent book is
    Manufactured Crisis
    The Untold Story of the Iran Nuclear Scare

    crowd-funded and published by the estimable Helena Cobban’s Just World Books )

  79. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Typo: You don’t have *to* answer this question …

    Mike Wallace put it best:

    WALLACE: Well then, ironically enough one of the greatest forces against communism in the world, the Catholic Church, according to your thesis would seem to be pushing us directly into the hands of the communists because they are against birth control.

    – THE MIKE WALLACE INTERVIEW Guest: Aldous Huxley 5/18/58

    This is another good read on the interplay of and interactions between the different players and (religious) groups during those times. I believe these alliances and rivalries still exist today:

    Chapter 14

    The USA and the Vatican’s secret plan to rescue war criminals

    American and World Jewish reaction – The Jews are mobilized against the State Department and the Pope – The State Department and the Vatican are scared – They adopt a policy of “maximum prudence.” – The USA by-passed Jewish vigilance, by massive equivocal legislation – Official classification of evidence – Estimated 10,000 Nazi collaborators still in the USA.

    The emergence of Israel as the Messianic fulfillment of the Judaic dream, in addition to adding tangible religious dimension to World Judaism outside America, made the American Jews the most pervasive ethnic influence of America. This was so since American Judaism, like American Catholicism, having penetrated both political parties, could affect the policies of any USA administration. The Jewish campaign, conducted with hammering persistence via a national media, a large proportion of which was controlled by Jewish interests, affected the policy of the USA.
    Intermarium was only one of the many organizations meant to help war criminals. The U.S. Intelligence had at least a dozen, several of which are still in operational use. Many of them are disguised under equivocal names. The Vatican, however, was the senior partner since it had the multiplicity of such agencies. This was so because it had the advantage of the Catholic Church, which permitted the Vatican to apparel its organizations under the disguise of religion. The result was that it became practically impossible to track down their identity or nature of operations, whether they had been classified, or declassified. The efforts would have stirred up a hornet’s nest in the American Catholic World. A hornet’s nest, which even the American Jews had considered prudent not to disturb. Such religious or semi-religious organizations are still dispensing what amounts to war pensions to elderly war criminals, or to their families, under the disguise of charitable bodies. The official exchange of USA-Vatican ambassadors, in 1984, dealt with the problem to the satisfaction of both parties. This is one of the many secret items of which the U.S. public knows nothing. The Vatican’s Holocaust By Avro Manhattan

  80. Logan says:
    @Jim Christian

    So, if Kim launches nukes at us, we’ll nuke Russia, China and Iran in reply?

    Thereby probably launching a nuclear war that has real potential to destroy the US as a functioning entity.

    This strikes me as a really, really bad idea.

    Another term for deterrrence is bluffing. It we aren’t willing to cover our bets if necessary, we shouldn’t bluff.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  81. MBlanc46 says:

    The UN Charter. Well, that settles it.

    • Replies: @JVC
  82. utu says:

    it was an act of revenge

    His reason for going after Nixon was the fact that he expected to be appointed as the director of the FBI,

    You really believe it? Lone man lusting for revenge accomplishes a successful coup.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @SolontoCroesus
  83. anarchyst says:

    That was part of the reason for the “coup”–Felt had a lot of help from his friends who were sworn enemies of Nixon…

    • Agree: Che Guava
  84. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Albert Bakker

    Could you please make your point(s) more clearly? I have no idea what you’re saying about the article.

    • Replies: @Hu Mi Yu
  85. JVC says:

    I agree that the UN is not much of an organization these days–Saudi Arabia leading the human rights council???, However, the legal reason for war was not only justifiable, but used to hang a lot of Germans. The only legal grounds for attacking another sovereign nation is an eminent, immediate, attack on you by that nation, with no time for the UN to try and mediate. Makes sense to me, but since the UN is mostly a US puppet anyway (25% of total funding), it pretty much gets away with actions no different than what we urge the UN to sanction other countries for–wither they actually have violated any international agreements or not.

    As an aside, the recent move by the Chinese to trade oil in yen (rimibi?) backed by gold, just might put an end to the USG financial terrorism it is want to drop on other nations. Will be interesting if such a market actually takes off.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  86. Biff says:

    Ole Rich sounds like a crusader that wants you to get high and mighty against all thoses “ists” people – there is no shortage of those in this world, and what a great tool to get people killing each other.

    What would Rich call Washington, and Wall Streets global corporate hedgeomy?
    Imperil”ists”? Go get em Rich! Set the world straight!(on your own of course)

    • Replies: @Rich
  87. john88 says:

    Try to shoot them down. Afterwords you have a clear case for attacking North Korea.

  88. Rich says:

    Are there really this many people out there unfamiliar with the terror the communists inflicted on the peoples they conquered? Has the Left really been this successful in hiding the millions of dead, the tens of millions tortured? I guess in the future we’re all going to have to do more to enlighten you folks to horror of life under the Reds.

    I have already recommended Solzhenitsyn and Corti om these pages, but there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of other writers out there who survived under these horrific regimes. I’d recommend any who are unfamiliar with the evils of the communists that they at least do a little research. They make the Nazis look like amateurs.

    • Replies: @Tim Rupright
  89. utu says:

    Hillary Clinton, had boasted she was prepared to “totally obliterate” Iran, a nation of more than 80 million people


  90. @Logan

    The US has always been the aggressor. North Korea needs nuclear weapons to stave off destruction.

    Do name a time when the US was attacked first? If you say 9-11, I would say we need to glass Israel for that favor.

    • Agree: Moi
    • Replies: @hhsiii
    , @Colleen Pater
  91. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    As an Australian citizen I can assure you that the socialized health care system does not require supplementary health insurance in order to have a modicum of decent health care. The waiting times are usually not often counter to best medical practices.

    For example I recently required a bowel operation to remove a large fortunately non-cancerous lump. The imaging scan which discovered the lump was free with no waiting time. Probable cost in the private system $500. The colonoscopy required to check out the lump was on a 6-month wait in public system but I did this private for $200 with subsidy in less than a week. Since the matter was deemed urgent I was in the hospital for removal of the lump in about a week. The operation and 10 day stay in hospital was entirely free. I could complain about some aspects of the hospital stay as it was of course a bureacratic nightmare but as it was free I’m not complaining.

    I could if having sufficient financial resources choose to avoid the public system altogether and go completely private if wanting better service.

    Americans who think their system is better or even good are complete idiots in my opinion. They have absolutely no idea how they are screwed by the medical monopoly complex.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    , @Wally
  92. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @richard vajs

    Your comment might make more sense if Sanders hadn’t supported US wars.

    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  93. @Logan

    Another term for deterrrence is bluffing. It we aren’t willing to cover our bets if necessary, we shouldn’t bluff.

    They are in complete support of a “rogue” client they collectively profited from via missile, military and (apparently) nuclear technologies distinct from any electricity-producing sorts. Russia, China, Iran created this threat, they armed him. Since the very definition of Deterrence is the sure and certain notion that if WE get nuked, they get nuked, they will share in the misery they enabled. After all, these are the actors that armed him, enabled him, and now demand that we back off no matter what he does. The conventional-warfare options available to us (thanks Generals) stink, deterrence is really all we have. And so the Big Three should be rewarded with unblemished homelands while we cope with a damaged grid or nuked-and-ruined West Coast and some numbers dead?

    Another consideration: what if the Norks aren’t merely a rogue “client”, but are in actuality a proxy of these three, either by design, or simply useful drift into the situation? That’s deliberate, a proxy. And so mightn’t Russia, China and Iran like to get together for a chat about their proxy/client if they thought they’d be part of the radioactive festivities? That’s not a bluff, that’s deterrence.

    There damned well better not be ANY bluff. Deterrence worked for many decades. In some ways, they especially kept the U.S. in line. Everyone knew to behave themselves, even conventionally because of the escalation threat. Aside from radioactive factors, there’s not much difference between a conventionally destroyed city (thinking Seoul, here) and a city that’s nuked. So let’s let THEM handle the Norks. We’ll back off, they’ll get a handle on their client-proxy, or else. Simple! No other options bear scrutiny. Force the good behavior of all concerned. I do love nukes.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  94. Z-man says:

    Why doesn’t anybody close to Burns tell him he looks like such an ass with that Beatle ‘peroxided’ haircut.

  95. The world loves us? They admire us, and they fear us,but fewer and fewer respect us and even fewer love us. It’s a good thing we pumped up the self-esteem of the millennial generation.

  96. Che Guava says:

    So, the first likely target will probably be the American carrier groups, which only a nuke can destroy, and not American territory or S.Korea.

    Your target is the usual selection I have read of in the event of a US attack, but ‘only a nuke can destroy’, I think you are likely wrong on that point. There was much writing last decade, re. both Iran and the DPRK, to the effect that a swarm of conventionally tipped missiles, of types with ancestry in both V-I and V-II, would likely sink a carrier group. The arguments for the possibility seemed convincing.

    After that, who knows what will happen.

    Well, anybody sane would rather not see it, especially if in the region, as I, so a good idea for the USA to not taking it to that point. Flying a few B1s, with fighter escorts, just outside DPRK’s territorial waters (within the last 48 hrs), not a very sane action.

    As Mr. Shamir was pointing out very recently, the Russian Federation was proposing a sane solution for now, accepted by DPRK, rejected by USA.

  97. @Anon

    ” I can assure you that the socialized health care system does not require supplementary insurance”

    And I can assure you that the German socialized health care system( AOK) sucks to the degree that anyone who can afford a private policy does in fact obtain one.
    German socialized health care does not cover dental work other than emergency extraction, and the complaints regarding faulty and ineffective treatment in German hospitials could fill tomes, incidents such as the removal of the wrong limb, etc, are legion in Germany, and the subject of the criminally useless UK social health system is another tragedy in itself.

    Of course you as a American hating leftist/socialist will back up your lousy system regardless of facts to the contrary.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @animalogic
  98. @dearieme

    What do you mean “until” 1941? You’re not suggesting the US was minding its own business until hostilities (such as Pearl Harbor) suddenly broke out?

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  99. JEC says:

    John Pilger, according to A A Gill:

    Pilgerism: a particularly monotonous, self-righteous, partial and ism-bound view of the world, posing as journalism.

  100. DanFromCt says:

    I was there mid-69 to mid-70, Army line unit, 4th Div, and would like to chime in denouncing these despicable and false charges that Americans behaved like savages toward the locals when in fact the opposite was almost uniformly the case. There were incidents and there were obviously a few rotten apples running around looking to “light up” some hooches for target practice, for example, but those individuals were generally perceived as expressing the bluster of cowards–the kind of empty talk we came to expect from basecamp commandos. Those who served in the field don’t ask for or deserve any special recognition, but we do endure the double insult of these cruel lies and having our participation marginalized or even negated by grunt and Rambo talk coming from phony basecamp commandos who’ve carved out a niche for themselves as the real deal. Lastly I’d say that if Ken Burns is behind this fakeumentary, it’s to conclude that yes Americans were unspeakably barbaric but there were extenuating circumstances–that is, guilty as charged by the Left decades ago

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Priss Factor
  101. Joe Hide says:

    You’re right about Vietnam and wrong about Trump. Can it get it simpler?

  102. Disclaimer: I only had time to skim the article, which seems excellent, but then he HAD , of course, to finish with this bit of stupidity.:

    Instead of merely abusing the world, as Trump does, the Great Obliterator might have attacked Iran and lobbed missiles at Putin, whom she likened to Hitler: a particular profanity given the 27 million Russians who died in Hitler’s invasion.

    Why do so many scribblers feel the need to expose such world class ignorance as making utterly bone headed statements like that? In fact, Hillary and Trump are worse than Hitler is supposed to have been since they both trumpet fake threats while the threat to the germans was real. Not only that, but Trump and Hillary’s support comes from the same sources ( such as big money Red bankers) that threatened the German nation.

    One wonders if he ever considered what would happen if Germany’s enemies had “won”? …Oh, wait! He doesn’t seem to realize that the hideously murderous bastards did just that, and he’s correctly criticizing them (while continuing to demonize one of the few with the cojones to stand up to the fetid “victors.”) I think Pilger just dealt a blow to history.

    Oy vey!!!

    I disagree with Chesterton who said there is no history, only historians. Furthermore, I maintain that there is one true history but it’s rarely appreciated, buried as it is, by the refuse of masses of clueless historians.

    …my proposal is this: That we should not read historians, but history. Let us read the actual text of the times.

    – G.K. CHESTERTON, History Versus the Historians

    It’s evident that Pilger has read the texts of the current times, but not those prior to, say, 1940. He should rectify that defect at once.

  103. Moi says:

    The significant difference is that we went over THERE to kill them without cause. They did the killings in their own countries. Perhaps that distinction escapes you…

  104. Moi says:

    Kindly re-read the piece. Mr. Pilger did not say any such thing. The vets who were there were used, not to mention the draft.

  105. Where are the ghosts of the great anti-war demonstrations that took over Washington in the 1970s?

    They hang out with the ghosts of the military draft; the definitive mover of 60’s resistance. No draft: no give- a-shit. Even the media is now embedded ( read: in bed with, the military). Orwell’s ghost is tap dancing in the street.

  106. @dearieme

    It was a perfectly normal US war of aggression, the only sort of war that the US fought until 1941.

    Huh? The US faced no significant threats from the usual scapegoats even then. Besides, FDR had been waging economic, financial, and diplomatic war well prior to 1941 in a effort to provoke a shooting war.

    You may want to examine the motives for the recognition of the bloody USSR by the corrupt USA under FDR in 1933, just as Stalin’s Holodomor had finished exterminating 7-10 million Ukrainians, before Hitler even had obtained much power, and while the Reds were busy undermining, in full and blatant public display, not only Germany but many other nations as well, including the US!

    For the umpteeenth time, may I present this?

    … Germany and Japan are not uniquely “aggressor nations,” doomed from birth to menace the peace of the world. The larger lessons have, unfortunately, yet to be learned.

    The United States is again being subjected to that “complex of fear and vaunting” (in the brilliant phrase of Garet Garrett’s) which drove us, and the Western world, into two other disastrous wars in our century. Once again, the American public is being subjected to a nearly unanimous barrage of war propaganda and war hysteria, so that only the most searching and rational can keep their heads. Once again, we find that there has emerged upon the scene an Enemy, a Bad Guy, with the same old Bad Guy characteristics that we have heard of before; a diabolic, monolithic Enemy, which, generations ago in some “sacred texts,” decided (for reasons that remain obscure) that it was “out to conquer the world.”

    -Murray N. Rothbard, Revisionism for Our Time

  107. Unfortunately I’m severely pressed for time this AM, or I’d investigate the ownership of the BoA at the time it was burned down.

    I highly suspect that it was neither owned nor controlled by any big New York banking outfit. The protest was likely nothing more than a pretext or a cover in a bid to undermine the competition.

    Again, all that is highly speculative, but it would fit a common pattern.

  108. Ram says:

    I remember reading in the Time and Newsweek how 6000 “Special Advisers” were being dispatched to South Vietnam to help Ngho Din Diem resist the threat from the Communists of the North. We know how it ended.

    Luckily the Vietnamese managed to wrest control of their country from the French and then the Americans. Unfortunately the Koreans had failed in their efforts. They had swapped one vile occupier for another. Syngman Rhee became an American puppet and the puppetry still continues.

  109. hhsiii says:

    If North Korea needs nukes to stave off destruction, why hasn’t it been destroyed over the last 67 some odd years during most of which time it didn’t have nukes?

    I think the Kim family and other North Korean elites want nukes to remain in power, and they have them. North Korea qua North Korea itself doesn’t have needs or wants, as its people have no say in what happens to them.

    In saying this it doesn’t mean I support invade the world, invite the world. Realistically, if we pulled our troops out of there South Korea might fall. Maybe not. They are fairly wealthy now. And I suppose they need to take care of their own. I’d feel some sympathy if they had to live under the Kim’s et al. Of course they haven’t been brainwashed, yet, so it might be hard to keep them down but North Korea could certainly kill a few million in trying at least.

    • Replies: @hhsiii
  110. Don Bacon says:

    Ken Burns is a film-maker, not an historian. He made a film to make money and entertain people. That’s all he is capable of doing.

    • Replies: @DaveE
  111. hhsiii says:

    Btw, I’d add that pre-nukes North Korea’s non-destruction was assured by the Chinese. And for a time early on the Soviets. I imagine the Chinese don’t really much mind the North Koreans having nukes, because they likely wouldn’t if China cared.

    Unfortunately the Korean War likely strengthened Chinese communists.

    Oh but we are talking about Viet Nam I guess. I think probably “success” in at least checking communist advances in Korea led some to think it could work in Viet Nam. But it was foolish to tie ourselves in with imperial France. But that is part of a global conflict. And we were horrifically barbarous in tactics. And drove many Vuetnamese who just wanted independence into communist hands.

    None of that supports this whitewashing of the brutalities of the Soviets, Kim’s, Mao, and even Ho, who has a tad more excuse but not really. To think the US did all this for imperialist reasons is idiotic, despite some capitalists manufacturers and bankers benefitting.

    It’s a throwaway line but I’m sure some of the US planners early on did have good intentions. Small consolation. The road to hell and all. For those that served like JVC sorry you went through it, thanks anyway. And thankfully, despite issues of individual freedom and abuses, Viet Nam is thriving relatively, compared to North Korea. Despite having suffered horribly. Which maybe means we are better off losing these wars, and insurgents better off winning, but I doubt it. I have no doubt South Korea is much better off in the long run having tied, with our help. And North Korea would be better off if they’d lost. Unfortunately we overreached and China wouldn’t allow a total loss.

    I think there’s a bit too much communist-Russian-Chinese-Iran etc sympathy on the left and the alt right. These folks are murderous bastards. We are too, but at least we can talk and vote about it.

  112. MarkinLA says:

    Been there, done that. There is already a documentary about the war that is quite good.

  113. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Then you should have no problem refuting what he has said in this article. Right?

  114. DaveE says:
    @Don Bacon

    Crooks don’t operate in a vacuum. In this case, the Jewish Mafia to support and finance people like Burns. Call Burns “entertaining” if you’re a sicko, but at least have the decency to label his films Historical Fiction.

    He can’t pull off his propaganda operation without the equally diabolical ethnic crime syndicate known as the media, behind him.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
  115. Wally says:


    You failed to mention those famously high Australian taxes:

    “Income received by individuals is taxed at progressive rates from 0 to 45%, plus a Medicare levy of up to 2%”

    • Replies: @animalogic
  116. Wally says: • Website

    Pilger lies with his fake “27 million Russians who died in Hitler’s invasion”

    Proof of the absurd “27 million” is where exactly?
    It’s pure propaganda.

    Germany’s “invasion” was a pre-emptive strike.
    Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @TheJester
  117. Hu Mi Yu says:

    He sounds like a bot to me.

  118. @cucksworth

    Israel or muslimia still attacked first. we can add to the list, ww2, the war of 1812, the civil war, mexican american war,

  119. anarchyst says:

    For a different “take” on the Vietnam war, please obtain and read “Our War was Different” by Al Hemingway.
    This book discusses various viewpoints about the most successful pacification programs in Vietnam, with the words of those who were there and participated in the USMC “Combined Action Program“.
    You might get a different perspective about the Vietnam war…
    I hope Mr. Burn’s film on Vietnam at least gives those of us who served a mention…

  120. The true scandal is the insidious assumption of power by sinister war-making vested interests for which no American voted. The rapid ascendancy of the Pentagon and the surveillance agencies under Obama represented an historic shift of power in Washington. Daniel Ellsberg rightly called it a coup. The three generals running Trump are its witness.”

    Exactly. Therefore Trump’s JFK-style inauguration speech had no more value and perspective than
    Obama’s or Hillary’s “Yes, we can!” (though it depends on who and what they really meant by “we”
    and “can”).
    Trump got (more precisely, was brought) into office with two incompatible, antagonistic
    agendas: the one he used to get a wide public support – “America 1-st!”, and another, much less
    publicized at the time, to make certain forces (to which his son in law is not a stranger) happy.

    He wouldn’t have gotten anywhere near the oval office without either of these two agendas. But the
    same antagonistic duality in his camp allowed that very swamp, he (more likely Steve Bannon) was so eager to drain, to destroy his team and to swallow him enough to make a part of that swamp.

    Will he be able to pull himself out, and how that tough, bordering with crazy talk towards North Korea and Iran, along with military buildup in Afghanistan, Europe, or threats to invade Venezuela, might help him to “make America great again” remains a mystery.
    What’s not a mystery, is the fact that Mr. Trump, just as many of his predecessors, is not the one who decides what and when to do.

  121. anarchyst says:

    You are correct…misbehavior against civilians was punished severely. This latest “documentary” on the Vietnam war does not place enough blame on the North Vietnamese communists who INVADED the South, or the communists routine murder of South Vietnamese village officials, “collaborators” and their families, including women, children and even babies. EVERY communist regime has resorted to murdering complete families, no matter how young…North Vietnamese communists were no different. For a different perspective on the Vietnam war, in the actual words of the participants, please obtain and read “Our War Was Different” by Al Hemingway. This offers a unique perspective on the war and the pacification efforts which were mostly successful

  122. Interesting.

    CucKen Burns is a prog. Is his kindlier version of the Vietnam War a reflection of how the progs have become pro-imperialist in the globalist age? After all, progs have been silent about Obama’s wars and are least angry with Trump when he is saber-rattling the most, esp against Russia, Iran, and North Korea.

    With Deep State totally ruled by globalists, homos, and multi-culturalists, it seems most progs are now in imperialist mode. As most progs worship Jews, homos, and blacks, they seek to transform the entire world to Jewish dominance, homomania, and Afromania, the holy mission of the US.

    Also, there is some truth to Burn’s position. Progs were once sympathetic to communism if not communist because they loathed imperialism then associated with capitalism. Also, the right-wing regimes supported by the US could be brutal.

    But communism turned out to be a big disaster. Vietnam itself turned against it and is now among the most welcome nations to Americanism. It even has homo parades to do more trade with the US. And Viet kids are addicted to rap, Hollywood, and consumerism. Prostitution is back in a big way.

    When Saigon fell, many leftists rejoiced and looked forward to something noble. But communists acted terribly and in Cambodia, one of the great horrors took place. And revelations about Mao’s China were most sobering.

    So, even in cases where the US failed to win the military war, it won the economic and political and cultural war.

    The end of the Cold War was a great time for the US, a real victory with the West being vindicated over the East. But since then, the boomers who took over power degraded culture with filth, decadence, trash, and shut down freedom with PC. The West is now just another tyrannical force, and it’s all about power, not about principles.

    It goes to show that a fascist-democracy is the best way. Communism failed and Liberal Democracy is failing to as it leads to globalist oligarchy.

    US fought a brutal war in Vietnam and other places, but the communists were plenty ruthless and demented too.

    PS. CucKen Burns gained fame with CIVIL WAR. I wonder…. If the South had decided to end slavery but also to secede from the Union, would the Civil War still have happened?

    • Replies: @Alden
  123. @DanFromCt

    false charges that Americans behaved like savages toward the locals when in fact the opposite was almost uniformly the case.

    But the locals were acting like ‘savages’ in their own nation. Why was the US there?
    Suppose foreign soldiers are occupying hillbilly country in the US where locals act like ‘savage’ rednecks. Wouldn’t the rednecks resist?

    It’s like that movie SOUTHERN COMFORT. It is sympathetic to the soldiers doing combat with local ‘savage’ cajuns. But it is the soldiers who are strangers in Cajun territory.

  124. Anonymous [AKA "WenigerGottquatsch"] says:

    In Kill Anything that Moves journalist and historian Nick Turse demonstrates that violence against Vietnamese noncombatants was not at all exceptional during the conflict. Rather, it was pervasive and systematic, the predictable consequence of official orders to “kill anything that moves.” Drawing on more than a decade of research into secret Pentagon archives and extensive interviews with American veterans and Vietnamese survivors, Turse reveals for the first time the workings of a military machine that resulted in millions of innocent civilians killed and wounded-what one soldier called “a My Lai a month.”

    • Disagree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @Rich
    , @utu
  125. MarkinLA says:

    The invasion was caused by the South and their manipulation of the reunification referendum that was part of the peace treaty when the French left.,_1955

    We should have left then.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @anarchyst
  126. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    That’s right! The only people killed in World War II were Germans, and they absolutely did not deserve it. Conversely, Jews deserved it most but suffered the least!

    • Replies: @wally
  127. @Rich

    I have always loathed communism and Marxism in any of its forms. I opposed the Vietnam War mainly because it was unwinnable and so ill-conceived. I spent one hour researching Vietnam in a library and realized that the Vietnamese hated China, had often fought with China and would be a good ally against Mao’s China. I also couldn’t really grasp how communism would fit into such a basic, conservative agricultural society and how that could harm us.

    But I also opposed the war because there were many commies here in the USA even then and many of them were in academia – openly admitting to being at least Marxists. So why should we spend so much money and so many lives fighting communism when communism existed and seemed to be flourishing here! And look what the commies have done in the past forty years to screw over our country.

    Veterans from the Vietnam War should feel like chumps, if nothing else.

  128. @Logan

    ‘Don’t believe half of what you see, none of what you hear.’–Lou Reed

    It’s always the same: lies, lies, and lies. Trump, like every prez, needed and will always need, a bogus ‘trumped’ up enemy to keep gullible Americans biting their nails (and chest thumping). It was just a matter of waiting… ‘When will it start? Who will be the first victim?’ Oh, so it’s North Korea (again), out of no where. We say they threatened us, we make real threats to them, voila!, history repeats itself all over again. Soon Venezuela will fall (back into its rightful owner’s hands–guess who). Very likely nothing will happen with NK, too risky with nukes. Iran on the other hand is always a possibility. They’re just soooooooo evil. But it was certainly gentlemanly of Trump to threaten genocide on the North Koreans (nearly all with close family ties to the south). That will make life pleasant for yanks living or travelling in Korea.

  129. @FKA Max

    You need not worry, the Catholics are now officially powerless.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  130. @dearieme

    Don’t know, dude, isn’t 4-5 million enough?

  131. @dearieme

    Zero improvement since JFK–ZERO.

  132. @iffen

    ‘jumping the shark’

    An idiotic phrase best forgotten. One had to look it up then one realized it was a silly Hollywood insider term. And nobody mentioned the American Indians.

  133. @Carlton Meyer

    Very interesting and plausible. Is there more proof available? Yes, Pilger likes these kinds of people, the kinds loved by Counterpunch (whose ad is strangely displayed in this piece) and Democracy Now–Ellsberg, Asange, Snowden.

  134. @anonymous

    Obviously Burns is a joke, so is all tv with its ‘personalities’. It’s a soft target, this shit should all be perfectly plain to anyone who knows without the slightest doubt that everything on tv is a lie, or a diversion, or just garbage to fill up the addled brain. Throw it all in the dumpster. No need to go through it personality by personality (as Pilger also goes through individual movies sometimes). Pilger I think serves a small function, PERHAPS, of slightly jarring the sleeping. But he also does harm, by then taking these same people and lulling them gently to sleep again with his self righteousness–he can be addictive, I know, I was once his biggest fan (along with Counterpunch’s and Democracy Now’s). But does Pilger ever once mention the truth about 911? I don’t believe so. And that for me, anyway, is THE litmus test.

  135. TheJester says:

    You are correct. Stalin, when he occupied Bessarabia at the same time as his annexation of eastern Poland, was only 120 miles from the Romanian oilfields that supplied a major portion of Germany’s petrochemicals. This was a dagger at the heart of Germany’s economic and military survival. The Soviet path to the oil fields was direct. If and when the Soviets moved, the German response to protect the oil fields would have been across rugged mountain ranges. The Soviets would have won the race and neutralized the German ability to dwarf their invasion much less make war.

    I’ve read a piece by a Soviet general of the times who stated that Hilter beat Stalin to the punch by only a few weeks … that the Soviets were actively planning a Soviet invasion of Germany. Makes sense. Otherwise, why would Stalin have had 2.5 million troops on the new German/Soviet border as well as fortifying the Soviet rear in depth to free troops for the Soviet invasion?

    This scenario also explains the strange phenomenon of Germany seeming to abandon the Battle of Britain for no apparent reason and very quickly redirecting its military resources against the Soviet Union. Something was up … something was amiss, and that was Germany co-opting a planned Soviet invasion of Germany while Germany was preoccupied with the Battle of Britain.

    Wikipedia makes the claim that Germany decided to quickly destroy the Soviet Union (huh?) to force Britain to make peace. British propaganda!

    The British were pressing Stalin to attack the German rear to save themselves. Indeed, other sources relate that the British Foreign Office had been hard at this game for years to precipitate a war between Germany and the Soviet Union to bleed them dry to protect the British fleet’s control over the Asian center via its control over peripheral ocean trade routes. A rapprochement between historical Russia and Germany would have co-opted the power of the British navy with a Berlin-to-Baghdad railway as well as a direct rail route from Berlin to Vladivostok. Hence, we can understand the British maneuvers to precipitate both WWI and WWII to keep this from happening.

    Heady claims to be sure. Let me suggest Carroll Quigley’s, “Tragedy & Hope: A History of the World in Our Time,” and Zbigniew Brzezinski’s, “The Grand Chessboard”.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @MarkinLA
  136. @Anonymous

    And if Sanders hadn’t immediately on conceding jumped on the Hilary bandwagon. And if the so-called ‘two lefts’ hadn’t uniformly adored the mass murderer Obama.

  137. anarchyst says:

    Now how can an INVASION by the North Vietnamese be blamed on the South Vietnamese who wanted NOTHING to do with the communists? Your argument is fallacious, to say the least. You must be an apologist for communism. The tens of thousands of “boat people” are proof of communism’s evil intentions.

  138. @Old Guy

    What do you think of the (something like) 100-fold increase in the Afghan opium trade since ‘we’ arrived? Uncle Sam maybe, just maybe, had a hand in that? And the Central American trade, under cover of the phoney ‘War on Drugs’? And the crack epidemic in the American cities? And what their friend and partner (with a ‘special relationship’) did to the Chinese?

  139. @Jeff Davis

    ‘Pol Pot was enabled by the Central Intelligence Agency and the American war in Vietnam much as Isis was enabled by the CIA and American war in Iraq.’

    I wouldn’t doubt it. I read somewhere how Carter let Pol Pot happen. Also, there’s a very interesting article by Israel Shamir on Pol Pot. He claims that going there a few years back and talking to many people, he found that possibly very, very (comparatively) few were murdered–was it 5000, or 15,000? Check it out. Everything we’re told is false. The question is how so.

  140. Rich says:

    Turse is anti-American, and probably a Marxist, too. I tried to read some of his stuff, but he lied about numbers of civilians killed and many other aspects of the War. He went into his investigation of the Vietnam War with an agenda to make Americans war criminals, and when he was unsuccessful, he faked it. He claimed Americans killed 2 million civilians, that’s a lie, there are reports he was paid, in part, by the Vietnamese Communists for writing his book, and when you look at the way the anti-American media has, to this day, salivated over their My Lai story, you think they wouldn’t have loved to find “one a month”?

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  141. @Rich

    ‘Sure, there was war profiteering during the Vietnam War, but there were also those who had seen what communists did to the innocent and wanted to prevent that.’

    Just like how we’ve been tirelessly helping the women of Afghanistan, how our world government tirelessly works to keep its citizens safe and innocent from terrorism, and on and on. And war is peace, and ignorance is bliss, truly. How many wars have we started since bogus 911? I count Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, with much agression in many other parts during that time. No one who made the decision to go to Vietnam, or any of these other places, thought for one second what you would have them have thought. You are naive about government and the realities of its evil works.

    • Replies: @Rich
  142. utu says:

    Thank you for the link to Kill Anything that Moves. I haven’t heard of it before. I will look it up and read it. I would make a broader generalization that killing anything that moves happens among not well trained soldiers naturally and they do not need to be told to do so by some secret Pentagon directives. All they need is impunity and immunity from prosecution which they almost always get. The practice of not taking POW’s on Pacific during the WWII had similar mechanics. The trigger happy American police also entirely depends on impunity so the police has no motives for improving their training and changing the rules of engagement allowing for deescalation. “My life was in danger” is the excuse that always seems to work.

  143. @Old Guy

    Is it just me, or is there a recurring theme in our interventions.

    • Replies: @Biff
  144. @JEC

    An example of his monotonousness is the mention of Harold Pinter’s Nobel Prize Speech in every other article.

  145. Biff says:

    There were no communists in Vietnam at all. They were nationalists of the Oriental stripe, and they wanted Ho Chi Minh as their leader, and that is how both the north, and the south voted in 1962.

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @anarchyst
  146. Biff says:
    @The Alarmist

    Global corporate hedgeomy?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  147. @anarchyst

    Kind of a blanket statement to say that all South Vietnamese wanted nothing to do with the Communists. In reality, quite a few would have been OK with it. Same deal as Korea: We wanted desperately to stop the advance of global communism, so we did everything in our power to do so, including partitioning of nations to install our puppets.

    Don’t confuse this as an apology for the Commies: They installed their own puppets in the territories they held. The difference is that they were better organised politically in the region and would have likely prevailed if the question of who should govern were put to a vote across the whole region.

    No surprise that this carries forward to the Democrat party interpretation of elections in the US today; sour grapes, so let’s say the result is null and void and press on for the result we want.

    One man’s INVASION is another’s War of Liberation … considering we came from so much farther in terms of both geography as well as culture, it would be fair to operate from the assumption we were the invaders.

    To be blunt, your assertion would on the surface appear to be specious; the burden of proof is on you as to why we should have been there at all, and your arguments to this point just don’t make the case.

  148. GilGamesh says:

    At last someone who actually watched the show. Pilger flat out misrepresents what the documentary said about the Gulf of Tonkin.
    Was wondering why he doesnt get called out on his bs but it would appear most of his fans arent curious enough to check the facts for themselves.

  149. MBlanc46 says:

    US puppet? Mais non. A talking shop for Third World tyrants who bill the Ametican taxpayer for it. It’s long past time to shut it down (or at least get the US out of it).

    • Agree: Alden
  150. Rich says:
    @daniel le mouche

    So, you honestly believe there wasn’t a single person in the US government that wanted to stop the spread of totalitarian communism? Every last one of them was in it for sinister reasons? I have to disagree with you. Of course, there’s obviously no chance I’m going to change your strongly held opinion, so we’ll have to leave it there.

    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  151. Kiza says:
    @richard vajs

    This is by far the most humorous comment on a very serious topic. Sanders is as pro-war and a Zionist as they get. It is only mildly true that some of his supporters, not having any serious anti-war leader, have been attracted to Sander’s election rhetoric.

    It is completely delusional of the self-declared “US true-left” to imagine that Sanders would have been any different than Hillary or Trump, except for female sexual organs (by both Trump the Grabber and Hillary the Pizza Lover).

    The US left has been completely obliterated during and after the last Presidential Election, and for the Deep State this was worth appointing Trump.

    Based on the historical track record, it could be a small improvement if the US anti-war left could find a non-Jewish leader next time. If uninformed, please ask the Russians about the Jewish leaders of the left.

  152. Kiza says:

    I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.

    That is because you are dumb.

    • Agree: Cyrano
  153. Rich says:

    The problem you leftists have nowadays is you can’t make up facts and get away with it like you did in the past. There were no elections held in Vietnam in 1962 that chose Ho Chi Minh. Why would you make up something like that in this day and age when it can easily be looked up online? The days that your kind could get away with that are over.

  154. anarchyst says:

    I don’t know what you are smoking…but, there WAS communist infiltration from the North. How do you explain the “boat people” who escaped?

  155. FKA Max says: • Website
    @daniel le mouche

    So, 5 Supreme Court justices, and Neil Gorsuch having attended Catholic schools in his youth which could make him vulnerable to Catholic lobbying, Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, a very influential ex-Catholic Vice President Mike Pence, National Security Advisor General Kelly and his best friend General Dunford as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, etc. pp. equals being “powerless” in your book!?

    Dunford was born in Boston in 1955,[5] and raised in Quincy, Massachusetts. He is of Irish background[6] and has been described as a “fervent Catholic.“[7]

    Catholics in Congress: one-third of House, one-quarter of Senate

    Overall, there are six fewer Christians in the new Congress, at 485 members. But there are four more Catholics, who now total 168.

    This is what Avro Manhattan had to say:

    Chapter 23


    The South Vietnamese and Croatian Catholic dictatorships, therefore, are the most striking examples of how the spirit of Catholicism can stultify the most diverse political systems and cultures with the bacillae of intolerance.

    It cannot be otherwise. Since her claims to uniqueness and hence to religious supremacy will be identified with those who are ready to accept them as basic truths upon which the fabric of society must rest.

    An Eskimo and a Central African or, in our case, a Croat and a South Vietnamese, therefore, notwithstanding all their racial and cultural differences, by the very fact that they are members of the same anti-libertarian Church, will automatically scorn democracy and abhor freedom.

    The import of this is portentous. The implication being that the Catholic Church is potentially capable of carrying out the ghastly experiments of both Croatia and South Vietnam in other countries, independently of their political systems.

    Which means that, given the favourable circumstances, she would not hesitate to repeat them anywhere in the world, wherever there are Catholics. And, since there are Catholics in practically every country, the risk of another Croatian or South Vietnamese “experiment” in the near or distant future, becomes not a theoretical speculation.

    But a possibility.

    This is why I am so worried about the high rate of Catholic immigration, legal and illegal, into the United States and these immigrants’ higher fertility rates.

    Do you think the following is a healthy development and proof of powerlessness?

    We had heard rumors from several lawmakers that Boehner was mulling retirement and that, as a Catholic, he privately saw the pope’s congressional visit, which he had orchestrated, as a fitting denouement to his long political career.

  156. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Correction: *White House Chief of Staff* General Kelly.

    National Security Advisor is H.R. McMaster:

    Dereliction of Duty: Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, The Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Lies that Led to Vietnam is a book written by McMaster that explores the military’s role in the policies of the Vietnam War.

  157. Joe Wong says:

    For over seventy years the US has dominated Asia, ravaging the continent with two major wars in Korea and Indo-China with millions of casualties, and multiple counter-insurgency interventions in Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines, Timor, Myanmar, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The strategic goal has been to expand its military and political power, exploit the economies and resources, and enslave the people.

    Before WWII, the American is just one of the Western imperialists ravaged and wreaked havoc of Asia with barbaric wars, illicit drugs like Opium, slavery, stealing, robbing, looting, plundering, murdering, torturing, exploiting, polluting, culture genocide, ‘pious’ fanaticism, unmatchable greed and extreme brutality. In fact it is hard to tell the difference between the American and the unrepentant war criminal Japanese who is more lethal and barbaric to Asians until the Pearl Harbour incident.

    USA is 10,000 miles away on the other side of the Pacific. USA is not an Asian nation, and American is an alien to Asian, American became rich and powerful through imperialism, colonialism, selling opium, religious indoctrination of the conquered, ethnic cleansing, genocide, slavery, racial discrimination, regime change, weapons trade, shock and awe, skillful propaganda, …

    American is a toxin and a plague to Asian, they have done enough damage to Asian already, they are not wanted, not invited and not loved in Asia, stop creating fantasy hypothesis to drag your feet in Asia, go home Yankee.

  158. Joe Wong says:
    @Jim Christian

    The American has been waging reckless war on other people’s land for far too long, Kim is right that it is time tobring war to the USA homeland so that the Americans will stop claiming bombing, killing and waterboarding on the fake news as humanitarian intervention.

  159. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Slightly off-topic, but here another “powerless” person, who has absolutely no influence in the United States:

    Due to the vast size of his business empire, Slim often jokes that he can’t keep track of all the companies he manages.[5] Carlos Slim is a Maronite Catholic,[66][67] and he is one of the prominent backers of Legion of Christ, a Roman Catholic religious institute.[68][69]

    Carlos Slim’s Late Wife Was a Member of the Most Bloodthirsty Lebanese Warlord Clan

    Mrs. Slim was a Gemayel on her mother’s side. The name “Gemayel” brings back memories.

    Lebanon’s Gemayel Family has its own Wikipedia page, with eleven members of the family having individual Wiki pages.

    If you followed Israel’s invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and America’s subsequent misadventure in Lebanon, you’ll remember hearing the name Gemayel.

    • Replies: @Alden
  160. @YetAnotherAnon

    Yes, the ghosts inhabit the bodies in the corner offices — the hippies etc made a bee-line for those offices when the draft was repealed. War is a grave no-no when middle class boys might have to go & fight. But, leaving war to working class boys…well now, we’re all pretty busy at the moment in our corner offices, & and, you know, really Saddam, Gaddafi & Un are terrible dictators etc etc ….

  161. Hhsiii says:

    Yeah, that baseball one. And Jazz. I tell ya, so much Glenn Miller and Joe DiMaggio, it’s a conspiracy.

  162. @dearieme

    “Surely Mao killed more people? Surely Pol Pot killed a higher proportion of a population? Unless you mean that it is the great crime because it was committed by white people?”
    No it was a great crime because it WAS a great crime. May, Pol Pot ALSO committed great crimes. I’ll leave it to you to get out your moral calculator to determine which crime was great – greater – greatest….

  163. @Rich

    “Communism needed to be stopped at all costs. Obviously you are unfamiliar with what the communists did to people under their rule.”
    Stopped at “all costs” ? Sure, especially if someone else pays those costs: you know, the Vietnamese ?(commonly designated as “the gooks”). And boy, did they pay ! (still do -unexploded munitions, birth defects etc)
    ….but, hang on ! At all costs ? When it was convenient. Good old Stalin: it really was damn convenient to hop into bed with him during WW II, wasn’t it ?
    As for communist crimes ? They are guilty as charged. Just as guilty – more or less – as dozens of US allies & clients…Indonesia, Chile, S-Korea … & uncountable Sth American juntas & so on. Morality really is a tricky thing, isn’t it ?

    • Replies: @Rich
  164. Santos says:


    So because of an improbable IF you want to create a war that brings that hypothetical IF much closer to reality.

    Kim knows if he attacks first he is a dead man and N. Korea seizes to exist as such. So you want to make him attack the US? By all means go to war.

  165. Santos says:
    @Jim Christian

    You nuke the Norks, bye bye USA, your economy and social situation will not be able to handle it, and who knows maybe the Norks will get a missile or two over there, all because of your HUBRIS and unfathomable idiocy.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  166. @Authenticjazzman

    “Of course you as a American hating leftist/socialist will back up your lousy system regardless of facts to the contrary.”
    Wow ! Anon talks about Australia – & you refute him with Germany.
    “Facts to the contrary” ? That’s rich. The US has one of the most expensive health care system with the worst outcomes in the western world and you dare criticise countries that attempt to provide some degree of universal health care ? Yes, they need improvement, but compared to the vicious & Kafkaesque joke which is US care, they are gold standard.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  167. @Wally

    Oh no ! A 2% levy for health care ! Horror!
    But let’s look at a US example:
    “Average Monthly Cost
    In a November 2011 press release, eHealth Insurance says that families in the U.S. paid an average of $414 per month for their own health insurance policies in 2011. In that same year, families paid an average deductible of $3,879 for their own health plans. Based on that monthly average, the percentage that would come out of your paycheck depends on your earnings. For instance, if you make $2,400 monthly and pay $414 for your own family plan, your premium would be 17.25 percent of your monthly income. ”
    So, maybe 17.25% on health care … back in 2011…but, hey, I’m sure it’s gone way down since then ….. lol.

    • Replies: @Wally
  168. Joe Wong says:

    A close friend of mine who is working in the internet security business in the USA, he warned me that I should stop commenting critically about the USA on the internet for the well-being’s sake of everyone I know. He said the arms of the USA government are long and unforgiving, and you cannot hide regardless whether you use VPN or not. The depth of the USA being an Orwellian police state is shocking, McCarthyism has returned to the United States.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  169. @anarchyst

    The Sth Viet’s who wanted “nothing” to do with the communists ? Yes, they existed. But if you think the war would have lasted 5 minutes without the willing participation of 100’s of thousands, if not millions of Sth Viet’s then you are deluded.

  170. @animalogic

    ” You refute him with Germany”

    BS , I did not “refute” him with Germany, rather I refuted him with the concept of general socialized medicine, with it’s plethora of flaws.

    I was in hospital for an operation in Germany several years ago, and I was ordered to sit stark naked, on a bench in a heavily traveled public corridor while waiting for my turn on the OP table.

    In the US I would have lawyered up and would be on easy street today.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army Vet, and pro Jazz artist.

    • Replies: @Alden
  171. @Joe Wong

    You were spot-on until you took a swipe at McCarthy at the end. Despite his boorishness, he was essentially correct about communist infiltration of the US government, and of course he never advocated anything even remotely like mass surveillance of ordinary citizenry as such. (And you should be aware that the Red Scare of the 50’s was preceded by the Brown Scare of the 30’s and 40’s, when opponents of Roosevelt and the war were labeled as fascists (ironically) and harassed, and in Lawrence Denis’ case, tried for sedition.) Likely Stalin himself would have been shocked at the security apparatus that exists in the US today.

  172. Escher says:
    @Carroll Price

    Not too many of the rich and connected served in Vietnam, draft or no draft. GW Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld…

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  173. @Biff

    Oh yeah, there’s that too!

  174. MarkinLA says:

    Ho was first and foremost a nationalist and the national hero who kicked the French out. In the same way Washington could have made himself king – the people would have made Ho their leader. Ho wanted peace with the US and cooperation, it was the US that threw it back in his face.

    The US through economic policies could have had influence on how Ho ran the government but we elected to fight a costly and stupid war that we were unlikely to ever win (we always had to go home at some point).

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  175. MarkinLA says:

    Why didn’t the Germans (prior to entering into the non-aggression pact with the USSR) form a mutual defense pact with Poland, Hungary,Romania, the Baltic states, Czechoslovakia, (oh wait, they already illegally occupied that) and Bulgaria. They could have moved German forces forward into defensive posture in those countries and given the time and German military technological superiority would have beat back any Russian invasion.

  176. @Rich

    That’s not what I said. I said the people who made the decision to go to war. Of course all the little worker bees are told lots of pretty things, which they dutifully believe. Thinking isn’t what they’re paid to do.

  177. @FKA Max

    Yes, I’m sure they’re all fervent Catholics. Just like that convert Tony Blair. It’s no matter that Catholic churches in America and western Europe are on life support, the great Catholic conspiracy continues to exist in the minds of some.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  178. Rich says:

    I would agree with you that the US probably shouldn’t have helped the Soviets, but I suppose it was the choice of one devil or the other. The American leaders at the time believed the Nazis were the greater threat.

    Whatever you believe in regards to S Korea, Chile or Indonesia, I believe they were all better off than they would have been had the Reds been allowed to seize power.

    The communists are the worst murderers of all time. Whatever sins US allies may have committed pale in comparison.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  179. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    there are some who think Russia had technological superiority. USSR was certainly more prepared to fight the element of war that brought about the German los — the cold.

    besides, Poland was used as a cat’s paw from the beginning. Germans tried negotiating Danzig w/ Poles but the Poles were constrained, or emboldened, by her “protectors”.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  180. MarkinLA says:

    I think the Somoza’s murdered more people than the Sandinistas did.

    • Replies: @Rich
  181. MarkinLA says:

    There is a difference between demanding some other country’s territory and entering into a mutual defense pact.

    The USSR could not have invaded and defeated a dug in alliance of all those countries with German military technology and leadership. The Luftwaffe was clearly superior to the Russian air force so there would be no chance of Russian forces using air power to break the defensive lines.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  182. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    There is a difference between demanding some other country’s territory and entering into a mutual defense pact.

    perhaps this is naive — the war started over Danzig. Germany tried to negotiate Danzig and offered very favorable terms, not “demands for territory.” Poles were emboldened, or intransigent, due in large part to British & French security guarantees and also to Jewish shit-stirring.

    The naive part is this: If Germany & Poland had been able to come to an agreement over Danzig, would that have meant No War?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Anon
  183. @MarkinLA

    They had alliances with Hungary and Romania (and Finland), and made reasonable offers to Poland, which the Poles foolishly refused.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  184. FKA Max says: • Website
    @daniel le mouche

    I hope this comment is not too off-topic. I tried to keep linking to my past comments here at the Unz Review on these topics to a minimum.

    Good on you for bringing up Tony Blair’s conversion, not many people realize how crucial of a fact that is to understand the bigger picture about the Iraq war, etc.

    Do you know what one of the first things was, Keith, that Tony Blair – one of Rupert Murdoch’s formerly closest allies, architect of the Iraq war, who opened UK borders wide to Third World immigration – did after he left 10 Downing Street (his wife was already Catholic)?

    Which religious denomination do Poles primarily and overwhelmingly belong to, do you think? Do you think this is just a coincidence and accident that Britain is being “Catholizied” through open borders?

    Poles are now largest foreign-born contingent in Britain as migration grows

    Polish involvement in the 2003 invasion of Iraq – Wikipedia

    Excerpt from the same comment I linked to above:

    You are probably aware, Keith, that Jeb Bush is a Catholic convert. There were even rumors, that Bush 43, ‘W,’ was planning to convert to Roman Catholicism: George W Bush and Pope Benedict XVI have held an intimate meeting in Rome as rumours mounted in Italy that the president may follow in Tony Blair’s footsteps and convert to Catholicism.

    Here a good website on the different Catholic perspectives on the war in Iraq:

    The United States’ war against terrorism and subsequent war against Iraq has provoked much discussion and reflection among Catholics. Although sharply divided, most argued for or against the war on the basis of the Catholic just war tradition. (A minority of pacifists, in addition, have argued that the devastation caused by modern weapons of war have rendered any discussion of a “just war” illegitimate).

    The purpose of this website is to provide a resource of information for those engaging in the debate over Iraq from a Catholic perspective. Secondary to this, I hope to provide further resources for those interested in the development of the just war tradition in general.

    On your last sentence:

    It’s no matter that Catholic churches in America and western Europe are on life support, the great Catholic conspiracy continues to exist in the minds of some.

    This is what the Catholic press has to say about this, I quote:

    The global Church comes home; or perhaps we should say, the empires strike back.

    When we consider those African statistics alone, any suggestion of the Catholic Church “dying” or even stagnating is so wildly inaccurate as to be comical.

    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  185. @FKA Max

    To be fair, I did specify in America and western Europe.
    So, you seem to believe every world evil is a Catholic conspiracy? It’s an interesting thought. Not a Jewish one, eh? Or British? These ones I’ve read a fair amount on, but not Catholic. In the USA, Catholicism is seriously struggling, perhaps do to Jewish conspiracy? Have you read/watched E. Michael Jones? I’ve always liked the Catholics as they are comprised of: Irish, Italians, French, Spanish, and others. Their art and music were great, they unified Europe for over a thousand years. I’ve always–well, for a few years anyway–considered the English and Protestants to be the baddies. But I’m not religious, certainly not Christian.
    Finally, I wasn’t aware of Jeb Bush. Blair, of course, has always made me sick. You don’t think their ‘faith’ is sincere, do you? Unless it’s of a truer faith, something occult/satanic practiced in the basement of the Vatican?

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @FKA Max
  186. Rich says:

    You can certainly “think” that if you like, but you would be wrong.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  187. @Escher

    That’s true. The rich and famous seldom if ever participate in wars that their fathers instigate, but a sufficient number of the lowly and unconnected served to bring the Vietnam debacle to a sudden halt. Much like Israel’s defeat, suffered at the hands of Hezbollah defense forces in 2006, the neocons will never get over that defeat or get over being expelled from Vietnam.

  188. Joe Wong says:

    USA is 10,000 miles on the other side of Pacific Ocean, Vietnam did not do anything threaten the USA, but USA invaded and waged reckless war on Vietnam for 10 years unprovoked. In according to international law and Nuremberg trail, aggression is the ultimate crime in humanity because aggression entails war crimes, crimes against humanity and crimes against peace. American was the aggressor in the Vietnam War hence American is a war criminal by having aggression and waging reckless war against Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.

    Nick Turse has under reported the number of victims died in the hands of barbaric American war criminals, just Cambodia along American war criminals killed more than a million in a nation of 8 million. In according to Vietnamese nearly 10 million Vietnamese in the North was killed by the American bombing, while the majority of atrocities were done to the South Vietnamese by the war criminals American and their lackeys, the people the American claim to protect, if including the collateral damages in the South Vietnam, the body count could easily reach 20-30 millions.

    Denying like the unrepentant war criminal Japanese further prove the Americans are born war criminals, the unrepentant ones too.

  189. anarchyst says:

    You conveniently forget the geographical advantage that the North Vietnamese had being on the border with China. North Vietnam WAS a “client state” of China.
    The spread of communism was very real. Those who outlined the “domino effect” were correct…that communism was destined to control that part of the world was very real. If we had not forestalled communism’s expansionist tendencies in the 1950s and 1960s, neutral countries such as Thailand would be communist today.
    Even with “one hand tied behind our backs”, the U S sacrifices and efforts cannot be discounted.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  190. anarchyst says:
    @daniel le mouche

    I see the Catholic bashers and “Vatican conspiracists” are out in force…
    That being said…
    The Vatican II Ecumenical Council did more to destroy the Catholic Church than just about any other action. Jews and Protestants were notable figures involved in Vatican II who “helped” the Catholic Church “modernize”.
    Outlawing the Tridentine Mass, changing the language from Latin to the vernacular, did much to destroy the Church’s “universality”. Previous to Vatican II, one could attend any Roman Catholic Mass anywhere in the world and understand it. That was all lost with Vatican II. There has been some pushback from traditional pre-Vatican II Catholics (yes, we do exist) that have removed most of the restrictions on the celebration of this Mass.
    In pre-Vatican II times, the priest was considered the “peoples’ representative” and faced the altar, along with the congregation. Turning the priest around to face the congregation changed him from being a peoples’ representative to becoming an “actor”.
    One of the greatest heresies was the absolution of the Jews for the Crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. As the Jews DID take full responsibility, this change in doctrine elevated Jews to the position of “our elder brothers” rather than the bloodthirsty executioners and enemies of Christianity that they (still) are. As is the case today, they got others (the Romans) to do their “dirty work” for them. Even Pontius Pilate KNEW that the Jews wanted the blood of an innocent man on their hands. As he was afraid of Jewish riots, (which were common) he allowed the crucifixion to go on.
    It is interesting to note that, to this day, there is a visceral hatred of Jesus Christ and Christianity among most Jews, their Talmud reinforcing their hatred.
    Contrast that with the Islamic Qur’an which holds high regard for Jesus Christ–not as the Son of God, but an esteemed prophet, nevertheless, while his mother Mary is specifically mentioned in the Qur’an and is given a place of high honor.
    For those interested in traditional pre-Vatican II Catholicism, please look up the “Society of St. Pius X”. You may be presently surprised.

    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
  191. Alden says:

    2 questions

    Who’s the man in the picture?

    How did the thread deteriorate into FKA MAX’s Catholic conspiracy theories? What do Polish Catholics have to do with the Vietnam was 50 years ago?

  192. FKA Max says: • Website
    @daniel le mouche

    So, you seem to believe every world evil is a Catholic conspiracy? It’s an interesting thought. Not a Jewish one, eh?

    Of course not. You can read through my comments archive here at the Unz Review and you will see that I am not going easy on the Jews at all, but many other contributors and commenters at the Unz Review are already doing this a lot more skillfully and successfully than I do.

    However, many of them don’t focus on or are not interested in the Vatican angle and factor when it comes to foreign and domestic affairs, etc. that much, and that is why I try to bring it up when appropriate and on-topic.

    This might be changing though after Steve Bannon’s “60 minutes” interview, when this issue was “mainstreamed” by Charlie Rose:

    My main point is that to dismiss a highly organized and centralized religious institution with over 1 billion adherents worldwide as an insignificant player and impotent actor in world affairs and in matters and questions of war and peace is either delusional, insincere or at worst sinister, when such propaganda and falsehoods are propagated to intentionally mislead.

    Or British? These ones I’ve read a fair amount on, but not Catholic.

    As to why that is, you might want to have at look at this (eye-opening) documentary:

    this (unpleasant) fellow:

    considered the English and Protestants to be the baddies

    and my and other commenters’ comments under this blog post by Mr. Thompson titled “Death of a Statesman Terrorist

    Have you read/watched E. Michael Jones?

    Men like E. Michael Jones and Father Raphael Johnson can be called fellow travelers, to adopt the Communist terminology, but the primacy of their religious commitments diverts them from the primary goals of the Alt Right.

    I’ve always liked the Catholics as they are comprised of: Irish, Italians, French, Spanish, and others. Their art and music were great, they unified Europe for over a thousand years.

    William N. Vaile put it best and the most diplomatically, in my opinion:

    “Let me emphasize here that the restrictionists of Congress do not claim that the “Nordic” race, or even the Anglo-Saxon race, is the best race in the world. Let us concede, in all fairness that the Czech is a more sturdy laborer … that the Jew is the best businessman in the world, and that the Italian has … a spiritual exaltation and an artistic creative sense which the Nordic rarely attains. Nordics need not be vain about their own qualifications. It well behooves them to be humble.

    What we do claim is that the northern European and particularly Anglo-Saxons made this country. Oh, yes; the others helped. But … [t]hey came to this country because it was already made as an Anglo-Saxon commonwealth
    It is a good country. It suits us. And what we assert is that we are not going to surrender it to somebody else or allow other people, no matter what their merits, to make it something different.

    • Replies: @Alden
  193. MarkinLA says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    You mean the same kind of offers they made to Czechoslovakia?

    • Replies: @Sowhat
  194. MarkinLA says:

    OK Thailand is communist. How does that affect the US? What, no cheap sex tours?

    You have been thoroughly brainwashed like all those 50s and 60s draftees I used to work with in defense. It never ever sunk in to their heads that communism half-way around the world was no threat to the US.

  195. MarkinLA says:

    There were plenty of stories about people “disappearing” under the Somoza regime. Somehow I missed all those stories about that happening under the Sandinistas.

    • Replies: @Rich
  196. wally says:

    BS strawman.

    Troll Alert !

  197. Wally says:

    The 2% is on top of the high Australian income taxes, which predictably, you dodged.


  198. MarkinLA says:

    The naive part is this: If Germany & Poland had been able to come to an agreement over Danzig, would that have meant No War?

    No once they occupied the Danzig corridor, they would have likely pulled a Czechoslovakia on the rest of Poland. Nothing in here seems to indicate that Germany was all that generous to the Poles.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  199. @MarkinLA

    Czechoslovakia was an artificial state, unlike Poland, and there is no indication Germany wanted to incorporate large parts of Poland.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Anon
    , @Reg Cæsar
  200. MarkinLA says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Yeah, I forgot Hitler loved Slavs.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  201. anarchyst says:

    brainwashed?? Not at all. I have personally seen the end results of communism and “it ain’t pretty”…

  202. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Then why did they incorporate large parts of Poland?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  203. Rich says:

    It could be true that you never heard any stories about the murders, rapes and pillaging carried out by the Sandinistas, because the Leftist media has been covering up communist atrocities since at least Duranty and the NY Times covered up Soviet atrocities in Ukraine. If you’re being honest and aren’t just a communist sympathizer, you can easily Google “Sandinista atrocities” and get yourself a nice long list.

    I’m not writing as a Samoza partisan, although the Nicaraguans I’ve known in the past said life was better under his autocratic rule, but, in the words of the great leftist hero FDR, “He (Samoza) may be a son of a bitch, but he’s our son of a bitch.” Sometimes you have to go with the lesser of two evils.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @denk
  204. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    There’s nothing Polish Jews wanted more than war with Germany.

    Do you honestly believe that?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  205. Cyrano says:

    Churchill once said: “History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it”. The only problem with this is, when someone writes history that has to be kind to him (or whatever the entity may be), that history tends to be a lie.

    It seems that the US writes their history with the same purpose in mind – to be kind to them. Maybe few decades down the road, if anything is left standing, someone else can write more objective history.

  206. @utu

    There’s a theory that Carter’s firing of George H W Bush as head of CIA, along with a lot of CIA agents, set the wheels in motion for Bush to select and place Khomeini as a replacement for Shah Pahlavi.

    Bush still had connections, even if he did not have official capacity. He knew Pahlavi was mortally ill but Carter did not. He cultivated Khomeini and arranged for his installation in Tehran (or Qom, as case may be).

    Recall that the hostages were not freed until hours before ? or after, I forget — Reagan’s inauguration.
    Recall that George H W Bush was Reagan’s vice president.

    Bush’s motive was revenge. These guys have their psyches and identity totally invested in their power bases. Crossing them is not your average “dang I got busted from manager to pepperoni slicer at the Pizza Hut” scenario.

    • Replies: @utu
  207. anon • Disclaimer says:

    once war is begun, all bets are off.
    the blood gets up.

    that’s why the period before wars start — the years and methods of incitements & provocations are so important to understand, from real history, in order to have tools to defuse them when they play out again. Like sanctions — doesn’t your average kindergartner understand that sanctions are an act of war, preparatory to a hot war?

  208. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Your phrasing is maximalist.

    The reality is more nuanced and complex.

    For one thing, It is a fact that there was a lot of very bad blood between Polish Jews and Poles. Poles wanted Jews out of Poland just as much as Germans wanted Jews out of Germany. There was a lot of vicious fighting and killing between Poles and Polish Jews. Germans in Poland had some grievances against Poles, but the greater share of violence was between Poles & Polish Jews — until war got hot then all bets off.

    But it was definitely the case that “there was nothing American Jews wanted more than war with Germany,” and they were willing to sacrifice Polish Jews to their goal of destroying Germany.

  209. @MarkinLA

    You’re just being inane now. Stick with Vietnam.

  210. @Anon

    Political and military necessities. The Germans did not want war and were surprised the British were willing to fight one over Poland. Hitler in fact entertained the idea of a Polish rump state but this met with Soviet opposition.

  211. utu says:

    I do not buy the revenge by singular guys like Felt or Bush as sufficient explanations. In the case of Bush only ethnocentric Americans can come up with such ridiculous theory. People with grudges and resentments are used but they are rarely initiators of great operations like the Islamic revolution in Iran was. In case of Felt I was wondering whether his resentment is just a cover up for the real reason why Nixon had to go. I would like to find out about this reason so in the meantime I will not eat the pre-cooked dish of Felt revenge for public consumption.

    As far as deposing of Pahlavi by Muslim fundamentalist is concerned it was the first successful operation of destroying a secular ME country with weaponized Muslim fundamentalism. Iran was the target because it was quite successful and was growing economically and maintained good relations with the West and the US and Israel in particular. So there was no way of stopping its growth and strength. It had to be turned into the pariah state first. After Islamic revolution the US cut off the relationship (while Israel still maintained them for a while). Turning Iran into the pariah state was the first successful implementation of yet unpublished Yinon Plan with objective of weakening all secular states (whether Soviet or American client states) in the ME. We do not know who was involved in organizing Islamic revolution but certainly some segments of US, French, British and Israel secret agencies. Nobody then connected (in media) Israel to this operation though some speculated (including Pahlavi himself) that the Brits and French were behind it and as always people talked about oils which in most cases (just like Styria now) is a red herring. Iran under mullahs did not get entirely destroyed and many institution of the secular state were maintained, nevertheless, the development of Iran was set back by many years.

    There were earlier attempts to use the weaponized Muslim fundamentalists in Egypt against Nasser’s secular regime but they failed and Muslim Brotherhood had to be evacuate to Saudi Arabia waiting for a better occasion.

    Another successful operation was undermining the secular pro-Soviet regime in Afghanistan that lead to Soviet interventions that Brzezinski considered the greatest achievement of his career. The recently floated picture of girls in mini skirts in Kabul that was shown to Trump was from the time of pro-Soviet regime of Babrak Kamal that the US helped to destroy.

  212. His rival for the presidency, Hillary Clinton, had boasted she was prepared to “totally obliterate” Iran, a nation of more than 80 million people. This is the American Way; only the euphemisms are missing now.

    Her party still treats war criminals like FDR and HST as heroes. Why would you expect her to act differently?

    A livid out-of-towner once asked me how we could name our air terminal after Charles Lindbergh, as “he was a Nazi, a Nazi!”

    Progressives don’t stop wars because it’s progressives that start them.

    • Replies: @utu
  213. @Beefcake the Mighty

    Czechoslovakia was an artificial state, unlike Poland…

    Then Czechoslovakia was closer to the world norm than was Poland. Every point of France’s “hexagon” is of foreign stock– speaking Breton, Flemish, Alsatian German, Piedmontese, Catalan, and Basque. And France is relatively homogeneous by world standards.

    Even today’s “Czech Republic” is artificial, as it’s made up of Bohemia and Moravia.

    Actually, all states are artificial.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  214. @MarkinLA

    OK Thailand is communist. How does that affect the US? What, no cheap sex tours?

    OK, France, the Netherlands, and Norway are National Socialist. How does that affect the US? No expensive cheese tours?

  215. utu says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Do you have a source to Hillary talking about totally obliterating Iran?

    During 2015-2016 Trump as I remember talked about Iran in negative terms.

    • Replies: @geokat62
    , @Reg Cæsar
  216. @Reg Cæsar

    You raise valid points, but they are not really relevant to the question of inter-war Czechoslovakia and more generally the unstable Versailles order.

  217. geokat62 says:

    Do you have a source to Hillary talking about totally obliterating Iran?

    Clinton made her comments on Tuesday, the day of the Pennsylvania primaries. She was asked during an interview on ABC’s program “Good Morning America” about her previous comments that she would respond with “massive retaliation” if Iran attacked Israel. She responded by adopting an even more militarist tone.

    Rephrasing the question to address a potential Iranian nuclear strike on Israel, Clinton said, “I want the Iranians to know, if I am the president, we will attack Iran. And I want them to understand that, because it does mean that they have to look very carefully at their society, because at whatever stage of development they might be with their nuclear weapons program in the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them.

    • Replies: @utu
  218. @Santos

    Well, takes one to know one. No one’s society or economy fares well post-attack. That’s the promise of nuclear weapons. My advice is we all walk away with an understanding: no one escapes responsibility if the Norks should nuke US. You may have noticed that’s the linchpin of deterrence. Deterrence kept the nuclear players in line for decades. Unfathomable idiocy is threatening a great nuclear power with nuclear annihilation as Kim does, as Iran does. Ultimate stupidity would be actually NUKING a great nuclear power. Hubris would be thinking he and his enablers could get away with it. Now why would anyone think that Kim and his Iranian, Russian and Chinese enablers could nuke the United States and would then get off scot-free? And so, for Iran, Russia and China, the issue is simple: Get control of your client. You don’t get away with the antics of your client-proxy.

    You may want it that way, but it isn’t that way.

  219. @MarkinLA

    Where would you have drawn the line at Communist expansion? Or not at all? When you know, or have a fair idea, what an enemy is up to and that he intends to continue without regard to your fears or objections are you willing to take the chance that your eventual compelled opposition will be too late? If only France had resisted Hitler’s first moves in the Rhineland and Britain had started rearming three years earlier…..

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  220. @anarchyst

    Interesting, thanks for the history–in fact I’ve learned most of that already via E. Michael Jones, now a pariah of his very own church.

  221. Alden says:
    @FKA Max

    Who wants to read through your endless comments, especially as you endlessly paste you old comments onto new threads.

    I think you are a Hasbarat troll trying to blame all the problems of the world on Catholics so as to draw attention away from what Jews actually do to destroy the western societies Christianity created over 2,000 years.

    Thats why you’ve been banned from so many WN, anti communist, conservative and other websites.

  222. Alden says:
    @FKA Max

    Totally off topic. I gather that in the more than 70 years of the Jewish Communists vs Catholic Church fight you side with the Jewish communists and the slaughter of Ukranians and Russisn Catholics and other Christians.
    Whatever your intent, that’s how your comments read.
    And now this comment; you side with Lebanese Muslims against the Catholic Lebanese who have fought hard for 1,500 years to preserve their culture, ethnicity and religion against the invading Arab Muslims.
    That’s the essence of your comments on this thread alone; communists good, Catholics bad, Muslims good, Catholics bad.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @FKA Max
  223. Alden says:
    @FKA Max

    Nothing to prevent you from moving to the northern ( most expensive) part of San Francisco and running against Pelosi. Or you could set up residence anywhere in California and run against Senators Feinstein and Harris.

    And there’s nothing to prevent the “Protestant Church” from forming some PACs and putting more “Protestants” in congress and in the judiciary.

    Oops, forgot there’s no such thing as a Protestant church. There’s not even a coalition or congress or convention or any kind of organization of the 10,000 or more Protestant churches.

    And what a collection those Protestants are. Everything from the Episcopal church commit ing suicide over the married gay bishops and clergy critters flaunting their anal sex activities at services to evangelicals waiting for the rapture at the end of the world.
    Can’t forget the Unitarians who don’t believe in God.

    Last but not least there is the communist front the World Council of Churches. Every Christian church in the world joined except the Catholics. The Vatican knew that the WCC was a communist front from day one. And of course anyone who followed the activities and pronouncements of the WCC during the Cold War realized exactly what it was. And the Catholic Church never joined the WCC.

    You have revealed yourself as pro communist and pro Muslim because of your advocacy of anything and everything opposed by the Catholics.

    Bet you are a fervent advocate of 2 days before due date abortion of 7 pound 20 inch living babies simply because the Catholics are against it.

  224. Alden says:
    @Priss Factor

    Yes the civil war would still have happened if the south had ended slavery and then secceded from the union.

    Lincoln made several speeches clearly stating that his main objective was preserving the union.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  225. @Alden

    ” So you live in Germany”

    Not anymore , however my wife is German and we do spend time there, as her older sister is still there, as is her extensive family.

    Germany is so bonkers now that the air vibrates with lunacy.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro jazz musician.

  226. Alden says:
    @Carroll Price

    Let your children be drafted but never mine. America is the enemy of Whites. It wants us gone the same way Stalin and Lenin wanted the Kulaks and Christianity gone.

    Any person who thinks Whites should be drafted into the enemy army is a fool.

    And the draft will result in tens of millions of dollars and millions of hours wasted getting rid of the retarded criminal blacks the draft will bring to the induction centers.

    A major reason the military was happy to get rid of the draft was to get rid of the criminal retarded blacks.

    If we do bring back the draft the 70 IQ blacks will of course be rejected. Then the ACLU NAACP AJC ADL SPLC will bring a disproportionate impact lawsuit.

    The judges will of course side with the NAACP etc and the taxpayers will be feeding, housing, clothing and medicating an army of ghetto layabouts

    It’s already a welfare center for single mothers, gays and other useless consumers of oxygen. But at least for now an IQ of at least 85 is required.

    A full 40 percent of blacks have IQs below 80. Just what the military needs.
    You want your daughter to have to chose between a lesbian and a black man sergeant with total power over her?

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  227. @utu

    Do you have a source to Hillary talking about totally obliterating Iran?

    Steve said it, not me, so ask him.

    Don’t take things so obliterally.

  228. Alden says:

    Mao and Ho were not allies of the US in WW2. They spent the war avoiding battle and eliminating non communist Chinese and Vietnames so as to be able to take over when the war ended which is exactly what happened.

    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  229. utu says:

    Thank you.
    Clearly the context is somewhat different as when implied by quotation sou the last phrase alone.

  230. @Alden

    You make several excellent point. Absent a draft, can you offer a better solution for ending the current state of permanent war?

  231. FKA Max says: • Website

    I am siding with the historic American nation

    Billionaire Carlos Slim’s Foundation To Help Mexican Residents Become U.S. Citizens

    The Carlos Slim Foundation, Mexican billioniare Carlos Slim Helú’s philanthropic organization, joined forces with the National Autonomous University of Mexico, known as UNAM, and the country’s Commission on Human Rights to help Mexican legal immigrants in the U.S. become citizens, the three organizations announced last month. There are 2.7 million permanent residents from Mexico eligible for U.S. citizenship who haven’t taken that step yet, according to the Pew Center.

    The Fascist Roots of Carlos Slim’s Dynasty

    Very good and interesting discussion going on at the moment over at Mr. Sailer’s blog:

    Interestingly, it was also at this time that the Troubles reignited in Ireland over British occupation of the North, leading many Irish-Americans to start once again taking an interest in Irish politics (and covertly funding IRA activities and taking interest in getting the Brits out).

    Once it was clear that the U.S. was pulling out of Vietnam, communist agents saw their job at killing U.S. morale in the war was largely complete,and apparently after 1968 through the 1970s turned their attention to fomenting ethnic rebellions against other U.S. allies (the IRA against the British, the Arabs against the Israelis) and fomenting ethnic rebellion within the U.S. (FALN, Black Panthers).

    My contribution to the discussion:

    P.s.: Alden just exposed my true identity, not a pretty sight, to say the least:

  232. @Rich

    Communism is not the problem, and never was. While you, and others like you were busy worrying about Communism taking over, Cultural Marxism, which is the political/social arm of Communism (politically correct speech, equality, etc.) quietly and successfully consumed the entire Western World, including the United States. Cultural Marxism is nothing more or less than Communism without communes.

  233. MarkinLA says:

    Well when I do that more entries pop up for “Contra atrocities”

    • Replies: @Rich
  234. MarkinLA says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    We were in western Europe, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and the Philippines that were all easily defended. The countries in Asia need to figure out what works best for them.

    However, the great mistake was not pushing France to get rid of its Asian colonies on friendly terms and work with them on developing their infrastructure using soft pressure (on those countries) to move away from communist economic policies.

    There is a difference between a militarily strong Germany on your border and economically weak countries that don’t threaten you and can never do so in the foreseeable future.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  235. @MarkinLA

    You remember no doubt the often derided “domino effect” that was a genuinely expressed fear in the 60s. Certainly Malaysia, Singapore and, eventually Indonesia regarded Communism as expansionist and, obviously Australia would have had to make policy adjustments to accommodate a complete Communist takeover of SE Asia resulting from the US saying “it doesn’t matter to us”. Those might have been the beginnings of policy changes in many countries which in the end would have made the US uncomfortable in its own hemisphere.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  236. denk says:

    in the words of the great leftist hero FDR, “He (Samoza) may be a son of a bitch, but he’s our son of a bitch.” Sometimes you have to go with the lesser of two evils.

    no wonder another poster mentioned that you seem to have problem in comprehension.
    Is English your natural language ?

    ‘He might be a sob but he’s OUR sob’

    = ‘As long as he’s in our team, I dont give a fuck if he’s the devil himself ”

    Lesser evil my ass !
    Evil is uncle sham’s tonic,
    He is the great satan himself !

    Thats why Clinton gushed over Suharto as
    our kind of guy‘,
    after the Indonesian prez wiped out more than three million ‘commie suspects‘ peasants !

    Incidentally, this earns Indonesia the ‘honorable’ membership to
    Murder Inc.

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    Murder Inc , aka
    The world’s top three butchers !

    USA, aka ‘the worlds’ oldest democracy’,
    INDIA, aka ‘the worlds’ largest democracy’
    INDONESIA., aka ‘the world’s second largest democracy’

    [SIC !]

    This should be made into faq no 1
    Sick of educating dumb murkkans.

    • Replies: @Rich
  237. @Carroll Price

    “Communism is not the problem, and never was”

    This is absurd and pure nonsense, as the goal, the end result of the saturation of society with “Cultural Marxism”, and the actual and only reason for the forcing/imposing of CM on society IS the manifestation of Communism itself.

    Jeez how someone cannot see this is perplexing and mind-boggling.

    Plus the fact that the “Cultural Marxists” are wishing for and are going to get something which they will deeply regret, as many of them do not see, realize where their striving are heading.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained Us army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

  238. @anarchyst

    Yeah, right: “…misbehavior against civilians was punished severely.” This “misbehavior against civilians” must not include those thousands blown up by B-52 bombings of the North. Dumping tons of Agent Orange on their rice fields to starve them into submission and rounding them up into “strategic hamlets” “ain’t misbehavin” either.

    That why Lt. William Calley served a “severe” 3 1/2 years under house arrest for his role in the My Lai massacre, after the Americans hanged those evil Nazis at Nuremberg. Just as William Tecumseh Sherman was “punished severely” for his war crimes in Georgia.

    Just remember: “Americans are Good!” Repeat this ten times every morning like a good American.

    • Disagree: anarchyst
  239. @Carroll Price

    Sorry my mistake as you are basically saying the same thing I am.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army vet, and pro jazz artist.

  240. Rich says:

    Thanks for making an old guy like me feel young again by calling me “kid”, I appreciate it. As for the rest of what you wrote, you sound like you’re angry with your daddy but don’t know who he is, so you’re taking it out on your Uncle Sam. Obviously an ideologue like yourself already has his mind made up, so I won’t bother setting you straight. Good luck.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @denk
  241. Rich says:

    Of course the leftist media would write more unfavorable stories about the Contras. But, hopefully, you’ve been able to educate yourself in regards to the sins of the Sandinista even with the attempted left wing media cover-up. Just think, even with the hostile media, you’ve still been able to glimpse the truth. Let’s hope the internet stays free.

  242. @Alden

    Mao and Ho were not allies of the US in WW2. They spent the war avoiding battle…

    Mao Ho, Mao Ho
    It’s off to war we go

    Woulda been catchy.

  243. MarkinLA says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    The great paradox of the Red Menace brainwashing was that we were told that communism could never work and was doomed to fail yet communism had to be defeated everywhere and by force if necessary. If the first is true then why not let it burn itself out to convince other countries that it doesn’t work. Maybe the real reason was that there were rich people who hated the idea that the people would use political pressure to even things up a bit.

  244. I don’t remember the ” we were told Communism would never work”. Weren’t young people for a very long time believing naturally in socialism because they had no idea how complex the world was, how varied human desires were or how human stuff ups occurred and were magnified by having to coordinate many people? After all Hayek’s insights still had to be propagated by his writing his magnum opus about 1959 (I was given a copy in 1980).

    I do recall the greatest Australian CJ, who had been in DC for Australia 1942-45 and got to know Frankfurter, Acheson et al as friends observing, with the US in mind, of the UK taking in blacks that “you can get rid of Communism in 50 years but they’ll never get rid of that!”. Like Enoch Powell he was a classical scholar.

    I am inclined to credit people who knew the truth of Communist rule – nothing to do with economics – in what were, it is true, not Marx’s favoured countries for dictatorships of the proletariat, having good non-economic reasons for tesisting Communism even if they weten’t religious and therefore understandably objecting to compulsory atheism. But what you say about the rich is worth considering.

    But who were the “rich”? Every American in the eyes of post WW2 Europeans (remember the “overpaid, oversexed and over here!”?)?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  245. @Rich

    Yes, your years of experience of the world have recognised something very disturbed about this “Denk”. He erupts from time to time in a way which suggests some sort of anger + medicaton + ? problem that you cleatly sense.

  246. denk says:

    Petulence will get you nowhere.
    [Hopefully] Facts would set you free !

    Murder Inc



    ‘How come we dont know shit about these ?’

    You gotta thank ..
    Holywood, CNN, FAUX, WARSJ, BBC, GUARDIAN, …….

    Fake news Inc.
    Dedicated brain laundry service.

    • Replies: @denk
  247. anarchyst says:

    You are guilty of perpetuating the myth that us Vietnam veterans are all loose cannons, ready to explode at a moment’s notice, when triggered by “cues”. This damaging perception of Vietnam veterans was prevalent through the 1960s and 1970s and was false, on its face. Your purposeful (mis)perception of Vietnam veterans is still common among you pinko, left-wing, pro-communist types. This attitude toward Vietnam veterans did much to exclude us from meaningful job opportunities, amid the social ostracization we endured.
    Almost all of us Vietnam veterans came back “to the world” and resumed our lives, where we left off. As it was unpopular to be in uniform, most of took off our uniforms immediately upon arrival, to avoid the wrath of the so-called “anti-war protesters”.
    You must have been on of these anti-war (actually anti-draft) protesters whose only purpose was to save your own skin from military service.
    There were many of us who went to Vietnam who fostered friendships among the local indigenous population, those of us who were not in line units, but were part of a little-known (and publicized) pacification effort, which was quite successful.
    For further reading on this little-known effort, the USMC “Combined Action Program” obtain and read “Our War Was Different” by Al Hemingway.
    I do fault Ken Burns for not including the pacification efforts in his documentary…

  248. MarkinLA says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    But who were the “rich”?

    The people who had an interest in exploiting other counties like United Fruit Company who was in bed with our hand-picked right wing dictators.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  249. @MarkinLA

    ” Why not let it burn itself out to convince people that it doesn’t work”: communism

    Why not? simply because it always first goes through a Stalin and Mao and Castro phase, meaning the murder of millions of innocents, they the commie honchos, call them “counterrevolutionaries” through it’s implimentation.

    Then after it becomes obvious to it’s subjects ( slaves) , that it will never work they start tearing down the walls and fleeing across the borders, or riding innertubes across oceans.

    And just why are you unable to figure this out yourself?

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet and pro Jazz musician.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  250. MarkinLA says:

    Maybe being a Mensa member you were too busy doing crossword puzzles and not smart enough to understand that what happens on the other side of the Pacific Ocean doesn’t mean shit to America.

  251. Well that explains a little of what the Monroe Doctrine allowed America’s ruling classes to get up to 🙂

    Generally I think you need to look wider. You only have to feel relatively rich (and therefore superior of course except for 10 minutes of Christian humility on Sundays) to feel happy with tbe way your leaders are taking you. I remember from the distant past a book by a UK Liberal, one Hobson I think, who explained the complicity of the British (including not least those poor oppressed Scots and Irish) in the Empire’s glories and advantages. Or as my old lawyer friend said when I was waxing moralistic “when everyone’s making money no one minds pèople pinching a bit”. Of course “democracy” may survive US debt and decline as world power because the proles can be fed with a variety of sweet tasting foods and electronically preoccupied for the rest of the time.

  252. denk says:

    ‘Reading this article should cause any fair-minded reader to ask whether or not India is a terrorist state seeking hegemony in South Asia and questions whether India is a country we should trust as an ally.’

    But, but….

    Even a five year old kid knows that The unitedsnake is a terrorist state seeking hegemony in the whole planet . !

    ‘whether India is a country we should trust as an ally.’

    It’d seem that USA./INDIA is a partnership made in heaven !

    Just like the genocidist Suharto,
    Modi of Gujarat’s fame is uncle sham’s
    my kind of guy‘ today.
    Is he any ‘lesser evil‘ ? [sic]
    Nope, but he’s doing uncle sham’s bidding , that’s what counts in Washington my dear. !

    Do you understand now, Rich ?

  253. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    My Lai was not an aberration, it was policy.

  254. anarchyst says:

    communism is always IMPOSED on an unwilling populace. communism is NEVER embraced by the populace…

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  255. MarkinLA says:

    This is total Red Menace BS. Most of those people in those third world shit-holes we “saved” had so little to begin with there would have been no difference under communism. Just exactly what would have communism changed out in the rural areas of Vietnam? The reason why communist insurgencies lasted so long was because the people supported what the communists were saying – that their kids would go to school and the state would build hospitals, something the capitalists weren’t about to do.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  256. syonredux says:

    There needs to be some sort of Godwin’s Law that says when a writer mentions the mistreatment of American Indians by European immigrants and their descendants it counts as officially jumping the shark.

    I disagree. There are occasions when it’s a point worth making, namely when Americans – especially politicians – are being at their most pompous, preachy, and hypocritical.

    And, of course, there are occasions when mentioning the mistreatment of Australian aborigines is a point worth making, namely when Britons-especially politicians- are being at their most pompous, preachy, and hypocritical.

  257. anarchyst says:

    The “capitalists” DID build schools, hospitals and other facilities to benefit the public, BUT when the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong came through, they would destroy the efforts of the South Vietnamese government and Americans. It is interesting to note that the “anti-war protesters” (Vietnam) went silent after the draft was abolished, as well as during the escape of tens of thousands of Vietnamese aboard rickety boats, risking life and limb to escape that communist “paradise”. No, I have nothing but disdain and revulsion for these so-called “war protesters”. It is curious to note that many of these “war protesters” became “chickenhawks” supporting more recent wars, as well as claiming to be Vietnam veterans in order to assuage their guilt…
    For a different, and relatively unknown “take” on the Vietnam war, google ‘USMC CAP’…

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  258. MarkinLA says:

    Yeah, well after the war starts and the Vietnamese want the foreigners out, when we started our “hearts and minds” campaign.

    Did the French build them? You don’t seem to get the fact that Ho was a hero and the peoples choice. Once he kicked the French out the Vietnamese wanted him to lead the country. Everything we did to try and prevent that was looked upon by most people as just continuing the French occupation.

  259. Sowhat says:

    My comments are insufficiently frequent to use the “agree” button. Great response with which I agree.

  260. Igr says:

    Very simple, go home from the peninsula.
    Leave those people in peace.
    Ylu , USA, killed one of four Koreans, simply let those people alone, they survived last one milion years andthey can survive without you another one million.
    Do nkt come back with your allies and commitments, you are agressor, your allies are in reality your vasal states, you made sure, that oligarchy, rulling there, is loyal to you.
    You made it either bribing them, or blackmailing them.
    I am so rusprised by such questions….you ask…..,.
    Btw. Sorry , ifyou are less, than ten years and LOL , should you be older.

  261. MBlanc46 says:

    Apparently Mr Pilger is unable to type the words “Cold War”. One cannot rationally discuss the VN war without them.

  262. MBlanc46 says:
    @richard vajs

    But the Sanders Left will be pro-globalism, which will make it indistinguishable from the Climton Left.

  263. MBlanc46 says:

    I think that I know a rabid dog when I see one.

  264. Anonymous [AKA "Grow up and stand for something!"] says:

    We live in America! Why do you find the numbers of dead Vietnamese are important to us (Americans)???? You Mr. Pilger clearly did not attend a A PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP rally? I brought my 9 year old nephew to PREDIENT TRUMP’s second rally in sure you remember no one was taking him serious at this time except for us AMERICANS that are so sick of seeing our once great country fall! At this rally, I have never felt more like an AMERICAN than I did that night!!!! I’m guessing you loose sleep at night wondering why you are free? Right

  265. @WorkingClass

    Served? What, whom? Piece of murderous filth is what you were and are.

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