The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 Laurent Guyénot Archive
The Devil's Trick: Unmasking the God of Israel
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments

“The finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that he does not exist,” wrote Charles Baudelaire (Paris Spleen). He was wrong: the devil’s finest trick is to persuade you that he is God.

Do I believe in the existence of the devil? It depends on the definition. I believe that humans are under the influence of the ideas that they have collectively engendered over the ages, for ideas are spiritual forces. And from that standpoint, I regard Yahweh’s impersonation of the Divine Creator as the most devastating deception ever played on the human race, a crime against divinity.

Am I a Gnostic? Not in the strict sense. If we are to believe their detractors, the early Gnostics taught that the God of the Old Testament was the evil demiurge who created the world from which Christ came to free us. I do not take Yahweh that seriously. On the contrary, I lament that he has been taken seriously by billions of people, Jews, Christians and Muslims. Yahweh is a character of fiction, but one that has gained tremendous influence over a huge portion of mankind, either directly or indirectly.

What I wish to demonstrate here is that Yahweh has the character of the devil as most people imagine it. That goes a long way towards explaining the satanic quality of Jewish Power that is becoming more and more apparent every day—a quality that Alain Soral is exposing in his most recent videos (now avalaible with English subtitles on the new ERTV International YouTube channel). If I were a Christian, I would quote John 8:44. But I am not arguing from a Christian viewpoint, for although I accept the principle that the Gospel story was designed as a cure for the Jews’ mental enslavement by the Torah, I also consider that, unless it could vomit the Old Testament, Christianity will remain forever infected by the virus it was intended to combat.

The Mosaic covenant as Faustian pact

The core of the Hebrew Bible is the Mosaic covenant. The deal is simple: in exchange for exclusive worship and obedience to his laws stressing strict separateness from other peoples, Yahweh will make the Israelites rule over humankind: “follow his ways, keep his statutes, his commandments, his customs, and listen to his voice,” and Yahweh “will raise you higher than every other nation he has made”; “You will make many nations your subjects, yet you will be subject to none” (Deuteronomy 26:17-19 and 28:12).

Christians have never come to the realization that the Mosaic covenant is nothing but a program for world domination by the Jewish nation. That is because it is written right under their nose, in a book whose malice they cannot recognize because they have been told it is the Word of God. It takes a free-thinker like H. G. Wells to see the biblical idea of the Chosen People for what it is: “a conspiracy against the rest of the world.” In the books of the Bible, “you have the conspiracy plain and clear, […] an aggressive and vindictive conspiracy. […] It is not tolerance but stupidity to shut our eyes to their quality.”[1]Herbert George Wells, The Fate of Homo Sapiens (1939), p. 128, on archive.org.

Christians have always failed to see the biblical god’s utter contempt for their own nations, although it is repeated again and again: “All the nations are as nothing before him, for him they count as nothingness and emptiness” (Isaiah 40:17). “Devour all the nations whom Yahweh your god puts at your mercy, show them no pity” (Deuteronomy 7:16). The vulnerability of Christian nations to Israel’s collective sociopathy is directly related to the their self-inflicted blindness. For their own misfortune, Christians worship a deity who hates them (as one commenter to an earlier article put it).

Christian exegetes never seem to have noticed either that Yahweh’s covenant—domination over the nations in exchange for exclusive worship—is basically identical to the pact that the devil tried to lure Jesus into:

“the devil showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. And he said to him, ‘I will give you all these, if you fall at my feet and do me homage.’ Then Jesus replied, ‘Away with you, Satan!’” (Matthew 4:8-10)

As a matter of fact, Satan is hardly distinguished from Yahweh in the Tanakh. He is called an “angel of Yahweh” in Numbers 22 and 32. In 2Samuel 24, Yahweh incites David to do evil, while the role is given to Satan in the same episode told in 1Chronicles 21, where Yahweh, “the angel of Yahweh”, and Satan are used interchangeably. There is also no trace in the Tanakh of a cosmic struggle between Good and Evil, as in Persian monotheism. Happiness and misfortune, peace and war, health and sickness, abundance and famine, fertility and infertility, all have their unique and direct source in the capricious will of Yahweh. In his own words, “I form the light and I create the darkness, I make well-being, and I create disaster, I, Yahweh, do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7).

Christ’s teaching to “store up treasures in heaven” (Matthew 6:20) is alien to Yahweh. He is the Greedy One, who wants “the treasures of all the nations” amassed into his Jerusalem residence: “Mine is the silver, mine the gold!” (Haggai 2:8). “The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be heaped together: gold, silver, clothing, in vast quantity” (Zechariah 14:14). Interestingly, according to 1Kings 10:14, the amount of gold hoarded each year into Salomon’s temple was “666 talents of gold”—the “number of the Beast” in Revelation 13:18! Make of it what you want. Or ask Jared Kushner to explain it.

ORDER IT NOW

The Mosaic covenant functions like a classic pact with the devil: Israel will get wealth and power in exchange for becoming Yahweh’s “personal possession” (Exodus 19:5). The notion of a pact with the devil is especially relevant since Yahweh denies his worshippers an individual immortal soul, which is tantamount to claiming their souls for himself. As Voltaire once noted, Yahweh forbade the Jews to screw their goats (Exodus 22:18), he instructed them on how to defecate in a hole (Deuteronomy 23:14), but he didn’t give them “that most useful creed in a future life.”[2]Read in Félix Niesche, Voltaire antisémite, KontreKulture, 2019. That is because the Torah is essentially a tool of mental programming meant to lock the Jews into a watertight collective soul (see my article “Israel as One Man”).

Metaphysical materialism is the most fundamental aspect of Biblical anthropology, and, although it has been superficially amended in later Judaic developments, its sap runs very deep in Jewishness. According to the Jewish Virtual Library, the afterlife “is rarely discussed in Jewish life, be it among Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox Jews, […] in marked contrast to the religious traditions of the people among whom the Jews have lived. […] The Torah, the most important Jewish text, has no clear reference to afterlife at all.”

The relationship between Yahweh and his people is not moral, but strictly contractual and legalistic. According to Jewish scholar Yeshayahu Leibowitz, “The Torah does not recognize moral imperatives stemming from knowledge of natural reality or from awareness of man’s duty to his fellow man. All it recognizes are Mitzvot, divine imperatives.”[3]Yeshayahu Leibowitz, Judaism, Human Values and the Jewish State, Harvard University Press, 1995, p. 18. The hundreds of mitzvot (“commandments”) are ends in themselves, not ways to a higher moral consciousness. Such Jewish legalism stifles moral consciousness, as Gilad Atzmon pointed out.

Naturally, there are moral precepts here and there in the Bible. But on the whole, it is a misunderstanding to believe that Yahweh expects from his people a moral superiority. The only criterion for approval by Yahweh is obedience to his arbitrary laws and to his antisocial or genocidal commands. To slaughter treacherously hundreds of prophets of Baal is good, because it is the will of Yahweh (1Kings 18). To show mercy to the king of the Amalekites is bad, because when Yahweh says, “kill everyone,” he means “everyone” (1Samuel 15). How can we expect from a people whose mentality has been shaped by these narratives and their layers of Talmudic commentaries, that they share the sense of good and evil that most other peoples regard as inherent to humanity? It is totally consistent for a future Israeli Prime Minister like Yitzhak Shamir (1986-1992) to declare (in 1943):

“Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: ‘Ye shall blot them out to the last man.’”[4]“Document: Shamir on Terrorism (1943),” Middle East Report 152 (May/June 1988), on https://merip.org/1988/05/shamir-on-terrorism-1943/

The jealous and murderous god

Yahweh is “the Jealous One” (Exodus 34:14). Although he is supposed to be the father of all national gods (Deuteronomy 32:8-9), he feels for them a murderous hatred, manifested in this command:

“You must completely destroy all the places where the nations you dispossess have served their gods, on high mountains, on hills, under any spreading tree; you must tear down their altars, smash their sacred stones, burn their sacred poles, hack to bits the statues of their gods and obliterate their name from that place.” (Deuteronomy 12:2-3)

Yahweh’s jealousy reached pathological proportions during his struggle with Assur, the national god of Assyria. In the oldest strata of the book of Isaiah, composed soon after the destruction of Israel by Assyria, Yahweh appears unable to cope with the frustration and humiliation, and consumed with the lust for revenge:

“Yahweh Sabaoth has sworn it, ‘Yes, what I have planned will take place, what I have decided will be so: I shall break Assyria [Assur] in my country, I shall trample on him on my mountains. Then his yoke will slip off them, his burden will slip from their shoulders. This is the decision taken in defiance of the whole world; this, the hand outstretched in defiance of all nations. Once Yahweh Sabaoth has decided, who will stop him? Once he stretches out his hand, who can withdraw it?’” (Isaiah 14:24-27)

Listen to Yahweh fuming after his defeat, and you hear a dangerous narcissistic megalomaniac: “By my own self I swear it; what comes from my mouth is saving justice, it is an irrevocable word: All shall bend the knee to me, by me every tongue shall swear.” (Isaiah 45:23)

Yahweh’s struggle with Baal is even more revealing. In ancient Syria, Baal (a term meaning simply “Lord”, as the Hebrew Adonai), also known as Baal Shamem (“the Lord of Heaven”), was understood as the Supreme God, encompassing all the manifestations of the divine.[5]Norman Habel, Yahweh Versus Baal: A Conflict of Religious Cultures, Bookman Associates, 1964, p. 41. And so it is ironic that Yahweh, a tribal god, should compete with the great Baal for the status of Supreme God. The cult of Baal received royal support in the powerful kingdom of Israel under the Omrid dynasty (9th century BC). We learn in the Cycle of Elijah (from 1Kings 17 to 2Kings 13) that the Yahwist prophet Elijah challenged 450 prophets of Baal to conjure lightning upon a sacrificial bull: “You must call on the name of your god, and I shall call on the name of Yahweh; the god who answers with fire, is God indeed”—an implausible situation since Baal, being the God of an agrarian society, never required holocausts. Elijah wins the contest, and people then fall on their faces and scream “Yahweh is God! Yahweh is God!” Then they seize all the prophets of Baal, and Elijah slaughters them (1Kings 18). Later on, after a coup against the Omrids, the Judean general Jehu summoned all the priests of Baal for “a great sacrifice to Baal,” which turned out to be their own slaughter. “Thus Jehu rid Israel of Baal” (2Kings 10:18-28). This is the perfect illustration of how Yahweh became the God instead of Baal: by the physical elimination of the priests of Baal. The process mirrors the way Jehu became king over Israel, by exterminating the family of the legitimate king, as well as “all his leading men, his close friends, his priests; he did not leave a single one alive” (2Kings 10:11).

ORDER IT NOW

For the Egyptians, wrote German Egyptologist Jan Assmann, “the gods are social beings, living and acting in ‘constellations’.”[6]Jan Assmann, Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel, and the Rise of Monotheism, University of Wisconsin Press, 2008, p. 47. The peaceful cooperation of the gods warrants the harmonious functioning of the universe. That is because the gods form the organic body of the world. Such a conception, which Assmann calls “cosmotheism”, fosters a form of inclusive or convergent monotheism: all gods are one, as the cosmos is one. By contrast, the Bible’s exclusive monotheism is the expression of Yahweh’s narcissistic sociopathy. That is why some Egyptians, according to Plutarch (Isis and Osiris, 31), believed the god of the Jews to be Seth, the donkey-head god of the desert, famine, disorder and war, expelled from the council of the gods for having murdered his elder brother Osiris out of jealousy. Identifying the Jewish god with Seth was their way to account for the aggressive exclusiveness of Jewish religion.

Since the polytheisms of all great civilizations were cosmotheisms, they were translatable into one another. This was of practical importance, because, Assmann writes, “contracts with other states had to be sealed by oath, and the gods to whom this oath was sworn had to be compatible. Tables of divine equivalences were thus drawn up that eventually correlated up to six different pantheons.” And so, from the third millennium BC, the translatability of various pantheons was crucial to international diplomacy as well as trade. But Yahweh cannot be matched with any other god; Yahwism “blocked intercultural translatability.”[7]Jan Assmann, Moses the Egyptian: The Memory of Egypt in Western Monotheism, Harvard University Press, 1998, p. 3. And when Yahweh instructed his people, “You will make no pact with them or with their gods” (Exodus 23:32), or “Do not utter the names of their gods, do not swear by them, do not serve them and do not bow down to them” (Joshua 23:7), he was in effect preventing any relationship of trust with the neighboring peoples. The Jews must place their entire trust in Yahweh alone. Dietary laws are meant to prevent any socialization outside the tribe: “I shall set you apart from all these peoples, for you to be mine” (Leviticus 20:26).

What Israelites are asked, in fact, is to reproduce towards other nations Yahweh’s murderous sociopathy toward other gods. The war code of Deuteronomy 20 commands to exterminate “any living thing” in the conquered cities of Canaan. In practice, the rule is extended to all people who resist the Israelites in their conquest. It was applied by Moses to the Midianites, save their 32,000 young virgin girls, of whom 32 were burnt as holocausts to Yahweh (Numbers 31). It was applied by Joshua to the Canaanite city of Jericho, where the Israelites “enforced the curse of destruction on everyone in the city: men and women, young and old, including the oxen, the sheep and the donkeys, slaughtering them all” (Joshua 6:21). In the city of Ai, the inhabitants were all slaughtered, twelve thousand of them, “until not one was left alive and none to flee. […] When Israel had finished killing all the inhabitants of Ai in the open ground, and in the desert where they had pursued them, and when every single one had fallen to the sword, all Israel returned to Ai and slaughtered its remaining population.” Women were not spared. “For booty, Israel took only the cattle and the spoils of this town” (Joshua 8:22-27). Then came the turns of the cities of Makkedah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir, and Hazor. In the whole land, Joshua “left not one survivor and put every living thing under the curse of destruction, as Yahweh, god of Israel, had commanded” (10:40). A more cruel end was reserved by King David for the Ammonites, who were “cut with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes,” and “passed through the brick kiln” (2Samuel 12:31 and 1Chronicles 20:3).[8]I have conflated the two almost identical accounts of the same episode in 2Samuel 12:31 and 1Chronicles 20:3.

Yahweh’s genocidal code of war was applied by King Saul to the Amalekites. Yahweh ordered Saul to kill them all, “man and woman, babe and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey,” and Saul was punished for sparing their king Agag, whom Samuel had to butcher himself (1Samuel 15). In the Jewish mind, such stories are not just half-forgotten tales of the past. Biblical history holds the keys to the present and to the future. Rabbinic exegetes have constantly referred to Israel’s perceived enemies in biblical terms. Amalek, in particular, came to be associated with Rome and, from the fourth century onward, with Christians, or with the Armenians in particular. Amalek is also associated to Iran, because the villain of the Book of Esther, Haman, is said to be a descendant of the Amalekite king Agag. The hanging of Haman and his ten sons and the massacre of 75,000 Persians are often conflated in Jewish tradition with the extermination of the Amalekites and the brutal execution of their king. The Torah reading on the morning of Purim is taken from the account of the battle against the Amalekites, which ends with the conclusion that “Yahweh will be at war with Amalek generation after generation” (Exodus 17:16).[9]Elliott Horowitz, Reckless Rites: Purim and the Legacy of Jewish Violence, Princeton University Press, 2006, pp. 122–125, 4. “Tradition holds that the Amalekites are the undying enemy of the Jews,” explains Jeffrey Goldberg in a New York Times piece called “Israel’s Fears, Amalek’s Arsenal,” adding: “I recently asked one of his advisers to gauge for me the depth of Mr. Netanyahu’s anxiety about Iran. His answer: ‘Think Amalek.’”[10]Jeffrey Goldberg, “Israel’s Fears, Amalek’s Arsenal,” New York Times, May 16, 2009.

This is just one more illustration of the Israeli leadership’s biblical mind frame. Modern Israel is the son of Yahweh, and acts on the international scene in a biblical way, that is, with the same indifference and cruelty toward non-Jewish nations as Yahweh demanded of his people in the Bible.

Accusatory inversion

“The belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man,” wrote Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794). Countless biblical stories demonstrate that Yahweh is the spirit of murder and theft. We read in Samson’s legend in Judges 14:19, that when “the spirit of Yahweh seized on him,” he went on killing and robbing thirty men, “then burning with rage returned to his father’s house.”

Yahweh is the cruelest of gods, but he would have us believe that all other gods are abominations. Biblical history portrays all nations but Israel as repulsive idolaters. But they were not. The Egyptians had built the first great civilization; their goddess Isis had taught them how to grow wheat and bake bread, and the Greeks learned it from them—as everything else, according to Herodotus. They were a spiritual and peaceful people. The Assyrians were conquerors, and their god Assur was no angel, yet even the Bible recognizes that they did not slaughter the defeated Israelites, but deported and resettled them. The Babylonians dealt with the Judeans the same way, even allowing them to keep their tradition and their cohesion, and to prosper on the riverbanks of the Euphrates.

Assyrian soldier with prisoners of war
Assyrian soldier with prisoners of war

Reversed accusation of genocidal intention is typical of Israel, a country with nuclear warheads pointed at Iran, whose leaders have always denied having any nuclear arsenal at all, but who hysterically urges the world to stop Iran’s supposed nuclear military program and determination to erase Israel from the maps. It would be laughable if Israel were just paranoid. But Israel is the psychopath among nations, and that means a tremendous capacity to manipulate, intimidate, corrupt morally, and get what they want.

The psychopath projects his own cruelty and lust for power on others. And so he thinks that those who resist his domination are out to get him. Therefore he must destroy them first. From the biblical point of view, nations must either recognize Israel’s sovereignty, and their kings “fall prostrate before [Israel], faces to the ground” (Isaiah 49:23), or be destroyed. Yahweh told Israel that he has identified “seven nations greater and stronger than yourself,” that “you must put under the curse of destruction,” and not “show them any pity.” As for their kings, “you will blot out their names under heaven” (Deuteronomy 7:1-2, 24). And we recall that, according to phony whistleblower Wesley Clark, son of Benjamin Jacob Kanne, the neocons had plans for destroying precisely seven nations—another proof that they are possessed by Yahweh.

Yahweh offers only two possible paths to Israel: domination, if Israel keeps Yahweh’s Covenant of separateness, or annihilation, if Israel breaks the Covenant:

“if you make friends with the remnant of these nations still living beside you, if you intermarry with them, if you mix with them and they with you, then know for certain that Yahweh your god will stop dispossessing these nations before you, and for you they will be a snare, a pitfall, thorns in your sides and thistles in your eyes, until you vanish from this fine country given you by Yahweh your god.” (Joshua 23:12-14)

Dispossess others or be dispossessed, dominate or be exterminated: Israel cannot think beyond that alternative. A good illustration is David Ben-Gurion’s paradoxical thinking in the early 1960s. Discussing Kennedy’s determination to stop Dimona, Avner Cohen writes in Israel and the Bomb (1998): “Imbued with lessons of the Holocaust, Ben-Gurion was consumed by fears of security. […] Anxiety about the Holocaust reached beyond Ben-Gurion to infuse Israel’s military thinking.”[11]Seymour Hersh, The Samson Option: Israel’s Nuclear Arsenal and American Foreign Policy, Random House, 1991, p. 141, quoted in Michael Collins Piper, Final Judgment: The Missing Link in the JFK Assassination Conspiracy, American Free Press, 6th ed., ebook 2005, p.[56] 117. Yet in the very same period, Ben-Gurion seriously considered that, within 25 years, Israel will dominate the world, and Jerusalem “will be the seat of the Supreme Court of Mankind, to settle all controversies among the federated continents, as prophesied by Isaiah.”[12]David Ben-Gurion and Amram Duchovny, David Ben-Gurion, In His Own Words, Fleet Press Corp., 1969, p. 116

The prohibition of moral conscience

ORDER IT NOW

Accusatory inversion is the birth process of Yahwism, which presents a murderous demon as the supreme God while demonizing the supreme God worshipped by other peoples. This can clearly be seen in the Genesis story of the Garden of Eden, with a very simple historical critical analysis.

In the Garden of Eden allegory, Yahweh forbids man access to “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Genesis 2:17). The Hebrew word for “knowledge”, daat, translates in Greek as gnosis, meaning inner awareness or insight rather than intellectual knowledge, so that “knowledge of good and evil” can be accurately translated as “moral conscience”, which is man’s capacity to distinguish good from evil, right from wrong, in any particular situation. So that the prohibition of the knowledge of good and evil simply means the inhibition of moral conscience.

To contextualize that Genesis story, we must recall that Egyptian and Persian religions taught that immortality is the reward for the blameless life. Since immortality was synonymous with divinity, being immortal could be expressed as “being among the gods”, or “being like the gods”. But in the Hebrew Bible, it is the serpent, a liar and deceiver, who tempts Adam and Eve into eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil with the guarantee that, “the day you eat it you will not die,” but “your eyes will open and you will be like gods, who know good and evil” (Genesis 3:5). The serpent speaks like the religious wisdom of great religions. The Hebrew scribes can present him as a liar because, for them, immortality (“not dying”) only makes sense physically: Yahweh, they claim, intended Adam and Eve to be physically immortal on earth, and provided no otherworld for their afterlife. From this materialistic standpoint, the scribes denounce the promise of immortality through knowledge of good and evil as deceptive, and implicitly portray the Babylonian, Persian and Egyptian gods as liars.

We have been educated for so many generations by this story, and are so used to assuming that the serpent of Genesis is the satanic deceiver, that it is hard to see the Torah’s message for what it really was: a direct attack against the higher religions and their moral teaching that knowledge and practice of good and evil is the way to the blessed afterlife. But, I ask, if trying to become like gods is a Luciferian impulse, why did the Greek Fathers of the Christian Church stress man’s potential for deification (theosis) under the logic that “God became man so that man might become God”?[13]John Meyendorff, Byzantine Theology: Historical Trends and Doctrinal Themes, Fordham University Press, 1974.

William Blake’s gnostic-romantic vision of the Serpent
William Blake’s gnostic-romantic vision of the Serpent

Lucifer, by the way, is the Latin translation of the Greek Phosphoros (light-bearer), traditionally applied to the Morning Star, the planet Venus. In Isaiah 14:12-17, the prophet blames the Babylonian king Nabuchodonosor II (605-562) for having tried to “rival the Most High,” and sarcastically asks: “How did you come to fall from the heavens, Daystar, son of Dawn [Lucifer in the Latin Vulgate]?” Discarding the reference to the Babylonian king, Christian exegetes conflated “Lucifer” with the serpent of Genesis, and declared him the chief of the fallen angels, cast away from heaven because of his rebellious pride. Yet, if we look at Yahwism from the revisionist perspective I am advocating, Yahweh, the tribal god who usurped the majesty of the Supreme God, fits the Luciferian archetype. Yahweh is the infernal demon that wanted to be God instead of God.

Yahweh Molech

To understand Yahwism—and thereby Jewishness and Zionism—it is important to know the background of its infancy, which has nothing to do with the birth of universal monotheism.

There is a mounting scholarly assumption that Yahweh was originally the volcano god of a tribal people specialized in metallurgy (read here).[14]Ariel David, “Jewish God Yahweh Originated in Canaanite Vulcan, Says New Theory,” Haaretz, April 11, 2018, on haaretz.com Hence his volcanic character. Any portrait of Yahweh would have to be based on Psalms 18:8: “Smoke rose from his nostrils, from his mouth devouring fire.” According to the “Kenite hypothesis”, the cult originated with the Kenites, who believed that, as a result of a curse upon their fratricidal ancestor Cain, they must live as restless wanderers, but inspire fear to the people among whom they dwell by their Yahweh-given law of sevenfold vengeance—revised as seventy-sevenfold by Cain’s descendant Lamek (Genesis 4:15-24).

We are often told that Yahweh is the god who abolished human sacrifice, when after ordering Abraham to tie his son Isaac, he held back his hand and contented himself with a ram (Genesis 22). Yet long after Abraham, some Israelite leaders seemed unaware of that great progress, and sacrificed their own children as burnt offering to Yahweh: Jephthah in Judges 11:29-40, Hiel in 1Kings 16:34, King Azaz in 2Kings 16:3, and King Manasseh in 2Kings 21:6. Not to mention the 32 holocausted Midianite virgins in Numbers 31 (read my article “A Holocaust of Biblical Proportions”).

For his alleged abolition of human sacrifice, Yahweh has been compared favorably with the Canaanite god Molech or Moloch, to whom firstborn infants were ritually sacrificed. But biblical scholars like Thomas Römer speculate that Molech was in fact none other than Yahweh himself. One of his arguments is that the noun mlk, vocalized as Molek in the Masoretic text (the ninth-century Tanakh that introduced vowels into the Hebrew script), but Melek in the Greek Septuagint, is identical to the Hebrew word for “king”, melek or melech (malik in Arabic), applied more than fifty times to Yahweh. The expression Yahweh melech, “Yahweh is king,” is found in Psalms 10 and still in use in Jewish religious songs.

The second argument for Molek’s ancient identity with Yahweh comes from the Leviticus prohibition of infant sacrifices: the prohibition proves the practice, and in this case, it proves that sacrifices were made in Yahweh’s name and in Yahweh’s sanctuary: “You will not allow any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God” (18:21); “Anyone […] who gives any of his children to Molech, will be put to death, [for] he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name” (20:2-5). Jeremiah 7:30-31 confirms that “the people of Judah” continued “to burn their sons and daughters […] in the Temple that bears my name, to defile it.” Although Yahweh declares it to be “a thing I never ordered, that had never entered my thoughts,” the very fact that a scribe wrote this indicates that the people who sacrificed their children did claim that it was required by Yahweh. In fact, Yahweh is caught lying, since he admits to Ezekiel, around the same period:

“And for this reason I gave them laws that were not good and judgements by which they could never live; and I polluted them with their own offerings, making them sacrifice every first-born son in order to fill them with revulsion, so that they would know that I am Yahweh” (Ezekiel 20:25-26).

In Exodus we learn that every first-born male, human or animal, was originally sacrificed on the eighth day after birth:

“You will give me the first-born of your children; you will do the same with your flocks and herds. For the first seven days the first-born will stay with its mother; on the eighth day you will give it to me” (Exodus 22:28-29).

Since animals were offered to Yahweh as holocausts from time immemorial, the implication is that the first-born son of every Jewish family had once been sacrificed as a holocaust too.

According to biblical record, it is King Josiah (640-609 BC) who abolished the sacrifices of children, “so that no one could pass his son or daughter through the fire of sacrifice to Molech” (2Kings 23:10). But according to Römer, it is only in the Persian era that human sacrifices became taboo.[15]Thomas Römer, The Invention of God, Harvard UP, 2015, pp. 137-138. They were substituted by animal offerings, as we learn from Exodus and Leviticus:

“All that first issues from the womb belongs to me: every male, every first-born of flock or herd. But the first-born donkey you will redeem with an animal from the flock; if you do not redeem it, you must break its neck. All the first-born of your sons you will redeem, and no one will appear before me empty-handed” (Exodus 34:19-20; reproduced almost verbatim in 13:11-13 and in Leviticus 27:26).[16]Numbers 18:15-17 declares redeemable the “first-born of an unclean animal” (unfit for consumption), but forbids to redeem “the first-born of cow, sheep and goat,” which are destined for the consumption of the Levites.

As in a palimpsest, we read here two things: in ancient Yahwism, the first-born male of humans and beasts were sacrificed to Yahweh, while in the reformed Judaism elaborated during the Exile, the first-born male of humans was “redeemed” by an animal offering.

The Lord of the foreskins

It was also in Babylon that the Levites introduced the Abrahamic covenant of circumcision: “As soon as he is eight days old, every one of your males, generation after generation, must be circumcised” (Genesis 17:12).

In religious reforms, innovations are presented as the restoration of ancient and lost practices. And so the Levites introduced their new rite as a pre-Mosaic commandment. For that purpose they used or invented Abraham: as a figure born in Mesopotamia and given the Promised Land in inheritance, he is the personification of the program of the priestly cast exiled in Babylon.

In pre-exilic Yahwism, every first-born male was to be offered to Yahweh on the eighth day of his life (Exodus 22:28-29), and in post-exilic Judaism, every newborn male was to be circumcised on the eighth day. That parallel is a strong clue that circumcision was introduced as another substitute for sacrifice.

Circumcision was not a novelty. It was unknown in Mesopotamia, but was practiced in ancient Egypt on fourteen-year-old boys. Circumcision of prepubescent or adolescent males was also practiced in Syria, but not uniformly: the Philistines, an Indo-European people from the Aegean world (they gave their name to Palestine), are called “the uncircumcised” in the Bible: David offered two hundred foreskins of slaughtered Philistines to Saul as bride token for his daughter (1Samuel 18).

Circumcision of adolescents in ancient Egypt
Circumcision of adolescents in ancient Egypt

Circumcision rites practiced in ancient Judea before the Babylonian Exile were probably consistent with the practices of neighboring peoples, which would explain why it is not even mentioned in the Mosaic covenant. According to the Book of Joshua, it is only when the Hebrews had settled in the Promised Land of Canaan that “Joshua made flint knives and circumcised the Israelites on the Hill of Foreskins” (5:3).

The Yahwist priestly cast who legislated over the Judean community in Mesopotamia may have valued circumcision as a marker of ethnic identity, in a land where nobody else practiced it. But why would they introduce the radical novelty of circumcision on newborn babies? Continuity with the ancient rite of sacrificing the first-born on the eighth day is one explanation. But I suggest a more sinister one: by eighth-day circumcision, Yahweh’s covenant is not only “marked in [every Jew’s] flesh as a covenant in perpetuity” (Genesis 17:13), it is impressed into the deepest and unreachable layers of their subconscious, through symbolic castration and traumatic pain. Unlike the child or teenager, the newborn baby is incapable of elaborating any positive meaning to the violence done to him, and to integrate it consciously as part of his identity. Eight days after emerging from his mother’s womb—a trauma in itself, but a natural one—what he needs is to build an unshakable trust in the benevolence of those who welcomed him into this world. The trauma of circumcision alters his relationship to the world in a deep and permanent way.

ORDER IT NOW

Because infants cannot speak, rabbis who defend the tradition speak in their place to minimize their physical pain. But according to Professor Ronald Goldman, author of Circumcision, the Hidden Trauma, scientific studies prove the neurological impact of infant circumcision, for which no anesthesia is used. Behavioral changes observed after the operation, including sleep disorders and inhibition in mother-child bonding, are signs of a post-traumatic stress syndrome.[17]Ronald Goldman, Circumcision, the Hidden Trauma: How an American Cultural Practice Affects Infants and Ultimately Us All, Vanguard, 1997. During the ceremony of brit milah, the mother is normally kept away from the scene, and the baby’s shrieks of agony are partly covered by the cheers of the men—a message in itself. But when mothers happen to hear them, they suffer enduring trauma themselves, as can be read on the Circumcision Resource Center web page “Mothers Who Observed Circumcision”: “The screams of my baby remain embedded in my bones and haunt my mind,” says Miriam Pollack. “His cry sounded like he was being butchered. I lost my milk.” Nancy Wainer Cohen: “I will go to my grave hearing that horrible wail, and feeling somewhat responsible.”

It is reasonable to assume, at least as a working hypothesis, that the trauma of circumcision at the age of eight days leaves a deep psychological scar. Abuse by adults is known to trigger in very young children’s minds a mechanism known as dissociation. The pain, the terror, the rage, and the memory of the experience, will be pushed out of ordinary consciousness, and form, so to speak, a separate personality, with a life of its own and a tendency to ooze into the normal personality. The idea of the wickedness of parental figures is so devastating that the repressed anger will be deviated away from them—in this case, away from the Jewish community as a collective parent. Is it farfetched to suppose a causal link between the trauma of eighth-day circumcision and the fact that Jews tend to be incapable of seeing the abuse perpetrated on them by their own community, and instead see the rest of the world as a constant threat?

Could it be that the trauma of eighth-day circumcision has created a special predisposition, a pre-programmed paranoia that impairs the Jews’ capacity to relate and react rationally to certain situations? Was brit milah (“covenant by circumcision”) invented some twenty-three centuries ago, as a kind of ritual trauma designed to enslave mentally millions of people, an unbreakable “covenant” carved into their heart in the form of an incurable subconscious terror that can at any time be triggered by code-words such as “Holocaust” or “anti-Semitism”?

It has been suggested that traumas can be transmitted “epigenetically”. According to a study conducted under the direction of Rachel Yehuda at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, “the trauma of the Holocaust is transmitted genetically” by “epigenetic heredity”;[18]Tori Rodrigues, “Descendants of Holocaust Survivors Have Altered Stress Hormones,” Scientific American, March 1, 2015, on www.scientificamerican.com. May I suggest to Professor Yehuda that he now conduct a study on the epigenetics of eighth-day circumcision?

Baruch Spinoza said that, “circumcision alone will preserve the Jewish nation for ever.”[19]Benedict de Spinoza, Theological-political treatise, chapter 3, §12, Cambridge UP, 2007, p. 55. That explains the fierce resistance of Jewish authorities against every attempt to ban it, from Roman Emperor Hadrian (117-138) to the recent Icelandic bill, condemned by European Jewish organizations as “anti-Semitic”. It must be said that opposition against infant circumcision has often come from enlightened Jews. Abraham Geiger (1810-1874), one of the founders of Reformed Judaism in Germany, advocated giving up this “barbarian and bloody rite.” But, on this issue as on all others, it is always “the more ethnocentric elements—one might term them the radicals—who have determined the direction of the Jewish community and eventually won the day” (Kevin MacDonald).[20]Kevin MacDonald, Cultural Insurrections: Essays on Western Civilizations, Jewish Influence, and Anti-Semitism, The Occidental Press, 2007, pp. 90-91. To protect their bloody rite from criticism, Jewish activists have managed to normalize it in England and North America from the 1840s to the 1960s, under fraudulent medical reasons—an amazing demonstration of their power over Christian civilization.

Laurent Guyénot, Ph.D., has edited some of his Unz Review articles in book form, under the title “Our God is Your God Too, But He Has Chosen Us”: Essays on Jewish Power. He is also the author of From Yahweh to Zion: Jealous God, Chosen People, Promised Land … Clash of Civilizations, 2018, and JFK-9/11: 50 years of Deep State, 2014 (now banned from Amazon).

Notes

[1] Herbert George Wells, The Fate of Homo Sapiens (1939), p. 128, on archive.org.

[2] Read in Félix Niesche, Voltaire antisémite, KontreKulture, 2019.

[3] Yeshayahu Leibowitz, Judaism, Human Values and the Jewish State, Harvard University Press, 1995, p. 18.

[4] “Document: Shamir on Terrorism (1943),” Middle East Report 152 (May/June 1988), on https://merip.org/1988/05/shamir-on-terrorism-1943/

[5] Norman Habel, Yahweh Versus Baal: A Conflict of Religious Cultures, Bookman Associates, 1964, p. 41.

[6] Jan Assmann, Of God and Gods: Egypt, Israel, and the Rise of Monotheism, University of Wisconsin Press, 2008, p. 47.

[7] Jan Assmann, Moses the Egyptian: The Memory of Egypt in Western Monotheism, Harvard University Press, 1998, p. 3.

[8] I have conflated the two almost identical accounts of the same episode in 2Samuel 12:31 and 1Chronicles 20:3.

[9] Elliott Horowitz, Reckless Rites: Purim and the Legacy of Jewish Violence, Princeton University Press, 2006, pp. 122–125, 4.

[10] Jeffrey Goldberg, “Israel’s Fears, Amalek’s Arsenal,” New York Times, May 16, 2009.

[11] Seymour Hersh, The Samson Option: Israel’s Nuclear Arsenal and American Foreign Policy, Random House, 1991, p. 141, quoted in Michael Collins Piper, Final Judgment: The Missing Link in the JFK Assassination Conspiracy, American Free Press, 6th ed., ebook 2005, p.[56] 117.

[12] David Ben-Gurion and Amram Duchovny, David Ben-Gurion, In His Own Words, Fleet Press Corp., 1969, p. 116

[13] John Meyendorff, Byzantine Theology: Historical Trends and Doctrinal Themes, Fordham University Press, 1974.

[14] Ariel David, “Jewish God Yahweh Originated in Canaanite Vulcan, Says New Theory,” Haaretz, April 11, 2018, on haaretz.com

[15] Thomas Römer, The Invention of God, Harvard UP, 2015, pp. 137-138.

[16] Numbers 18:15-17 declares redeemable the “first-born of an unclean animal” (unfit for consumption), but forbids to redeem “the first-born of cow, sheep and goat,” which are destined for the consumption of the Levites.

[17] Ronald Goldman, Circumcision, the Hidden Trauma: How an American Cultural Practice Affects Infants and Ultimately Us All, Vanguard, 1997.

[18] Tori Rodrigues, “Descendants of Holocaust Survivors Have Altered Stress Hormones,” Scientific American, March 1, 2015, on www.scientificamerican.com.

[19] Benedict de Spinoza, Theological-political treatise, chapter 3, §12, Cambridge UP, 2007, p. 55.

[20] Kevin MacDonald, Cultural Insurrections: Essays on Western Civilizations, Jewish Influence, and Anti-Semitism, The Occidental Press, 2007, pp. 90-91.

 
• Category: History • Tags: Jews, The Bible 
Hide 513 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Jesus was a fundamentalist Jewish nationalist. He stated specifically that he had come to fulfill the law, not to replace it, and that his mission was only for “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The idea that he came for all mankind was invented decades after his death by people who had never met him and knew of him only through hearsay. It was fabricated because the core of his teaching, that Yahweh was about to return to establish his kingdom on earth, with all men ruled to be by the Chosen on his behalf, was the ranting of just another delusional fanatic. That he claimed to be the literal son of god is another later falsification.

    Divinity, divine paternity, three days in the underworld followed by a glorious return to life, eternal bliss for the righteous in Elysium – these are all pagan theological constructs current in the Roman world during Christianity’s formative period. They would have been abominable heresies to the pious Jew who Jesus was – if he was an actual man, and not a composite figure like Abraham, Moses, Solomon, and others in Jewish mythology.

    It was not accidental that our own United States adopted the first western government in some fourteen centuries, founded, as John Adams put it, “on the natural authority of the people alone, without pretence to miracle or mystery,” that refused to establish Christianity as its official state religion.

  2. There are factual errors such as “implicitly portray the Babylonian, Persian and Egyptian gods as liars.” The bible (and Talmud) says the Persian God and Israel are one and the same. Besides, the book of Esther is not part of the bible, look up Martin Luther and Esther. That said, the story had no problem with Esther and the Persian marrying because they followed the same God.

    If the author can’t get that simple fact right, I do not know how he can consider himself an expert.

  3. Chris Moore says: • Website

    Moses, the founder of Judaism and a seminal figure in Christianity, terminated the sick, backward and corrupt Hebrew demons within his nation.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+32+&version=DRA

    Ostensibly, this is because they quickly abandoned the ways of Yahweh that Moses was trying to build and reverted to gold worship, human sacrifice, narcissistic pleasures and primitive paganism. The reality is probably more complex.

    If Moses’ narrative with Yahweh can be read as a psychological internal debate, it becomes clear that Moses knew all along he would have to terminate this faction of Hebrews because building a lasting nation is impossible with such a skittish and schizophrenic gang of pathological reprobates, criminals and fortune seekers. One might further speculate that the he recognized these Hebrews as part and parcel of the ilk that sold their brethren into slavery so long before.

    The pre-Moses, pre-Judaism Hebrews would let such an act of treachery by their brethren go. After all, “We’re all family.” Moses recognized the folly and futility of this, and the absolute necessity of a blood break with this back-stabbing faction of Hebrews if his nation was to survive, and so he took up arms against the treasonous Hebrew scum to drive home the Ten Commandments.

    Today, these same back-stabbing Hebrews and their partners in crime are again trying to sell out every nation on earth for the easy money and self-aggrandizement of Globalism (the unholy, hyper-materialist combination of Marxism and Capitalism), with absolutely zero regard for the middle class and working class of nations the world over or their family values, and again it’s up to true Christianity and true Judaism not only to confront them, but to bring blood judgement upon them.

    Those who lean toward Marxism or Capitalism are going to scream like stuck pigs when the inevitable reality of their fate hits them, and we’re already starting to see that. Pay no mind to the squeals of the demons. They chose their fate when they put the treasonous imperatives of worldly profits, narcissistic materialism, power, and status over basic human decency and the rule of law.

  4. g8way says:

    I would say this is a cluelessly sophmoric screed about the Bible and its contents, but it seems more like a rehash of other cluelessly sophmoric screeds.

  5. “Reversed accusation of genocidal intention is typical of Israel, a country with nuclear warheads pointed at Iran, whose leaders have always denied having any nuclear arsenal at all, but who hysterically urges the world to stop Iran’s supposed nuclear military program and determination to erase Israel from the maps”

    From Abraham to Bibi, it’s always the same: They accuse YOU of what THEY are doing.

  6. @g8way

    What Bible college did you attend?

    • LOL: Ace, Biff
    • Troll: Gleimhart Mantooso
  7. This is an important topic, the demonic horror of the biblical ‘God’, and that, as Laurent Guyénot says

    Christianity will remain forever infected by the virus it was intended to combat

    One can quibble tho with Guyénot’s claim that

    the Gospel story was designed as a cure for the Jews’ mental enslavement by the Torah

    It’s more sensible to view Christianity and Islam as Jewish-created vehicles to extend Jewish power, by giving large empires an ideology with a core of devotion enshrining the Jewish cult

    The brilliant Pauline invention of Christianity, grafting a 15% or so globalising Buddhism onto a Jewish base, and offering the bait of a full-blown sensual ‘eternal afterlife’, was a clever affair

    Also, just to note that a leading anti-circumcision French Jew – and also one of the dozen or so prominent Jewish holocaust deniers – was Roger Guy Dommergue Polacco de Menasce (1924-2013)

  8. Anthropology and French people. Name a worse duo.

    • Agree: Gleimhart Mantooso, ivan
    • Troll: Digital Samizdat
    • Replies: @Druid
    , @Orchid
  9. @hello56455

    In fairness, the author has taken on this subject elsewhere. One of his books, in fact, deals extensively with it: “Our God is Your God Too, But He Has Chosen Us”: Essays on Jewish Power. And he also wrote another article here at Unz that mentions the issue in passing:

    The process of how Yahweh was transformed from national to universal god, while remaining intensely chauvinistic, can actually be documented from the Book of Ezra. It contains extracts from several edicts attributed to succeeding Persian kings. All are fake, but their content is indicative of the politico-religious strategy deployed by the Judean exiles for their proto-Zionist lobbying. In the first edict, Cyrus the Great declares that “Yahweh, the God of Heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and has appointed me to build him a Temple in Jerusalem,” then goes on to allow “his [Yahweh’s] people to “go up to Jerusalem, in Judah, and build the Temple of Yahweh, the god of Israel, who is the god in Jerusalem” (Ezra 1:2–3). We understand that both phrases refer to the same entity, but the duality is significant. We find the same paradoxical designation of Yahweh as both “God of Heaven” and “god of Israel in Jerusalem” in the Persian edict authorizing the second wave of return. It is now King Artaxerxes who asks “the priest Ezra, Secretary of the Law of the God of Heaven,” to offer a gigantic holocaust to “the god of Israel who resides in Jerusalem” (7:12-15). We later find twice the same expression “God of Heaven” (Elah Shemaiya) interspersed with seven references to “your god,” that is, “the god of Israel” (keep in mind that capitalization is irrelevant here, being a convention of modern translators). “God of Heaven” appears one more time in the book of Ezra, and it is, again, in an edict signed by the Persian king: Darius confirms Cyrus’s edict and recommends that the Israelites “offer sacrifices acceptable to the God of Heaven and pray for the life of the king and his sons” (6:10). Everywhere else the book of Ezra only refers to the “god of Israel” (four times), “Yahweh, the god of your fathers” (once), and “our god” (ten times). In other words, according to the author of the book of Ezra, only the kings of Persia imagine that Yahweh is “the God of Heaven”—a common title of the universal Ahura Mazda—while for the Jews, Yahweh is merely their god, the “god of Israel,” the god of their fathers, in short, a national god. Indeed, imperial authorities are told that the Jerusalem Temple is dedicated to the God of Heaven, although the idea seems irrelevant to the Judeans themselves: when the Judeans are challenged the right to (re)build their temple by the local Persian governor, they tell him: “We are the servants of the God of Heaven and Earth” (5:11) and refer to Cyrus’s edict. And when Nehemiah wants to convince the Persian king let him go to Judea to oversee the rebuilding of Jerusalem, he offers a prayer “to the God of Heaven” (Nehemiah 2:4); but once in Jerusalem, he asks his fellow Jews to swear allegiance to “Yahweh our god” (10:30).

    This unmistakable pattern in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah may be taken as a clue of the deepest secret of Judaism, and a key to understanding the real nature of “Jewish universalism”: for the Jews, Yahweh is the god of the Jews, whereas Gentiles must be told that he is the supreme and only God.

    https://www.unz.com/article/zionism-crypto-judaism-and-the-biblical-hoax/#the-book-of-ezra-and-the-prostitute-of-jericho

  10. As regards Genesis, an alternative hypothesis would be that the God of Genesis and Jehovah were two, different beings entirely. It should be pointed out that the name ‘Jehovah’ is not used at all in Genesis. It doesn’t make its first appearance until the Exodus, I believe.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+6:3&version=KJV

    Interestingly, according to 1Kings 10:14, the amount of gold hoarded each year into Salomon’s temple was “666 talents of gold”—the “number of the Beast” in Revelation 13:18! Make of it what you want. Or ask Jared Kushner to explain it.

    Good one! 😀 😀 😀

    It has been suggested that traumas can be transmitted “epigenetically”. According to a study conducted under the direction of Rachel Yehuda at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, “the trauma of the Holocaust is transmitted genetically” by “epigenetic heredity”;[18] May I suggest to Professor Yehuda that he now conduct a study on the epigenetics of eighth-day circumcision?

    If the trauma repeated each and every generation–as is the case with circumcision–then epigenetics wouldn’t be necessary to explain its putative psychological effects.

    • Replies: @Wally
  11. anarchyst says:
    @Peter D. Bredon

    “The jew cries out in pain as he is striking you”…

    • Replies: @buzzwar
  12. Anon[401] • Disclaimer says:
    @Observator

    Jesus was a fundamentalist Jewish nationalist. He stated specifically that he had come to fulfill the law, not to replace it, and that his mission was only for “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    You openly conflate Jews and the totality of Israel within the span of two sentences, and use the conflation to make a false point about Christ being a “Jewish nationalist”.

    The theology is open about the fact that the lost tribes will return, whomever they are.

    Which means that “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” does not equal “Jews”.

    Christ is speaking of the return of the ten tribes.

    This is all esoterism and some allegory.

    The idea that he came for all mankind was invented decades after his death by people who had never met him and knew of him only through hearsay.

    Your assertion that Christ was not here “for all mankind” is unconfirmed in light of no given supporting evidence.

    But it is mostly irrelevant in the context of the rest of the theology.

    Whether Christ came for all “mankind” or only “Israel” (which in Jewish theology happens to be exactly the same thing, no exceptions), it doesn’t matter in the context of the Apocalypse.

    Also important to realize is that it doesn’t matter what was added earlier or later. By man or God.

    In its totality, all of this “religion” exists 100% in a competing arena of tribal political interests dressed up in now-mass-scale cultic practices.

    In other words, any additions are merely adaptations of the cult to its competitors or toward its aims.

    For Judaism, Christianity, or the original Israeli cult.

    They all started as competing cults designed to achieve political (and possibly racial) aims, and that is still how and why they function.

    Israel vs Judah

    Rome vs Judah

    Christianity vs Judah

    [MORE]

    Modern states in combat with Judah are generally pale-reflections of the above.

    Additions to cultic mythology or practice do not matter in terms of the cult’s so called “spirituality” or deity-oriented religious belief.

    Because the cults were never about that, aside from any magic ritual support of the goals.

    The only spirituality or true theology within any of this is within the scope of the true human soul’s resistance to evil.

    The effects of the cult on mankind stem from the cultic practices and the political demands of the cults.

    Therefore, what matters is the modern cultic practices: hidden and not.

    Not what they were nor should be based on their supposed “originality”.

    This is all about active practice.

    In other words, later additions are no more or less legitimate because this is all allegory and man-made cultic ritual. What matters is what is now happening and how to approach it.

    There is no one, and I do mean no one to include atheists and everyone else on both sides of the political spectrum, who is not completely enveloped by and a puppet of these cults. The most difficult deniers of the legitimacy of these cults sometime work to most effectively serve cultic aims.

    Which means that this is entirely too far gone to stop or even protest.

    There isn’t enough beginning awareness of what is going on even a small outcry to take hold. Going forward and for a long time now, everything plays into the aims of the cult.

    We are simply strapped into the test until its engineered end. We are living in the real world version of one of the worst possible Alfred Hithcockian scenarios.

    The word “Apocalypse” means “uncovering”, which implies the presence of the esoterism that you are missing.

    In simpler language, the theology outlines a test. The end of this text is mass genocide. The cultic books do not hide either of those facts.

    The apocalypse is the end of the test. All “mankind” can not pass the test. Those that do are the true / renewed Israel. According to the public theology, a significant number of corrupted individuals (if not all) within the modern political designation of “Judah Israel” will not pass the test.

    So, it doesn’t matter who Christ is here for. He may technically be here for mankind or Israel (again, according to Jews = same thing). The salient takeaway is that those who will survive in the long run are those who will pass the test.

    In fact, if he wasn’t here for all mankind then that would make this period less destructive because the test would only need to be locally applied. As it stands, it looks like much of the world is under the test.

    The test and its genocide being aspects of the massive “harvest” cult ritual that we are all currently being subjected to and whose farming themes are widely obvious throughout the Bible. Given the ancient theologizing of farming, it is obvious out of which part of the World this cult arose (the Levant and Anatolia).

    The interesting part of that is that the Farmer and City Creator (Cain) is condemned early in the Torah, in favor of the Hunter-Gatherer Shepherd (Abel).

    Yet, the later chapters are ensconced in farming metaphor.

    This may speak to how this cult was eventually stolen and perverted from its original source.

    The Edomite miners (and metallurgists) are de facto condemned via their association with the lineage of Esau.

    It was fabricated because the core of his teaching, that Yahweh was about to return to establish his kingdom on earth, with all men ruled to be by the Chosen on his behalf, was the ranting of just another delusional fanatic.

    The definition of Yahweh, for Jews, (assuming for a moment that this singular deity’s identity is centrally important for them) has always been fluid and it cannot be said that the Jewish Messiah equals “Yahweh”.

    The Jewish Messiah, in one fashion, might be said to be Yahweh. Or a manifestation of him.

    Or, merely, a figure that is beneficial enough to Jews to be equivalent to whatever god they prior had.

    The Jews are results oriented, not singular-deity oriented beyond the “singular deity”” that is essentially the combined Will of Judah.

    This fact being central to one of their primary reasons for rejection of Christ as their Messiah. Which is that, simply, Christ’s presence had not awarded them with World control. So, he could not be their Messiah.

    Depriving Jews of their plans is the point of Christianity as a competing cult; which found its ultimate home in the capital of Judah’s long term enemy: Rome.

    Which is why Jews hate Christ and Christians above all else. There is no other religion whose existence is predicated on opposing Jewish evil and its cultic vehicle.

    Christianity reads more like a resurrected Israeli (and therefore anti-Jewish / anti-Yahweh) cult than a Jewish secret weapon.

    Christ is a replacement for the Jewish Messiah, not the Jewish Messiah. As the Jews well illustrate when they speak about Christ.

    The Bronze Age political domination program known as “Judaism”, with its Biblical god “Yahweh”, is a perversion of the Israeli religion.

    Likely adopted from the remnants of Israel after Assyria, with probable Jewish assistance, succeeded in destroying Israel and scattering the tribes who had always been at war with “Yahweh”-worshiping Judah in the south.

    Yet, when Judah speaks of their eschatology, they speak of themselves as “Israel”. They do this because the original stolen religion is the root of Judaism’s theological and (perceived) magical power, and therefore they have to focus on themselves as “Israel” in order for the religion to continue to have any magic power.

    Jews were heavily race-mixed with Edomites (Edom and Judah being next to one another) and as such had deep connections to mining in the region. This race mixing is detailed in the Biblical lineages.

    Yahweh closely resembles the Volcano / Mining / Greek Devil / metallurgy figure Hephaestus, who was tossed from Olympus as the Devil was cast from Heaven (in the Bible).

    Yahweh also has characteristics of a serpent throughout the Old Testament, and is said in the Jewish texts to have arisen from Edom.

    Cain, as the farmer and father of the first city builder, is cast by Jews as the Serpent’s son who was created after the Serpent mated with Eve.

    In modern Torah academics, the Torah is designated into two culturally opposing voices: that of the Northern God El and that of the Jewish Yahweh.

    The former is the remnant of the original Israeli religion that is the source of the Torah and the latter is the Jewish revision.

    My theory is that the original concept of Israel likely began as Hunter Gatherers descended from Baltic / North Germany region into the warmer climate of Anatolia and eventually into the Levant. Note that the World home of anti-Hasidic Talmudism is in the Baltic nation of Lithuania.

    These newcomers race-mixed with the local Neanderthals to create the racial basis for modern Judah.

    The original Israeli religion, which is today’s modern Jewish religion except for the Jews replacing the Israeli God with their Volcano god, is a religion that was created to deter race mixing while still allowing for geographic domination. The newcomers had become too addicted to wealth and technology to go home. Judah arranged for their dispersal / demise and then stole the religion. A religion that was meticulously crafted for dominance and genocide, but which wasn’t given a failsafe for theft.

    The Neanderthal primary homes were in Anatolia, the Levant, and in Illyria. The latter being where the mythical-genetic origin lies of the anti-Greek and anti-Roman Trojans.

    The natural internationalism of the race mixed tribe supercharged international trade, technological spread and development (like farming, metallurgy, and weapons technology), and urban settlement.

    A contingent of the original group stayed non-race mixed as “Israel”, and largely lived in the hills surrounding the cities. Much as the elite do today.

    Their tribes would have included most of those who stayed in the hill regions of Anatolia, above the Fertile Crescent. Like the Gutians and the Mitanni overclass. And like the Hyksos who descended on Egypt, to rule them and were later expelled, and who were the likely source of the Biblical Exodus myth (per most non-religious scholars on the topic).

    These hill tribes would often war with the urban, valley dwelling “Canaanites”, sometimes descending on them for the purpose of genocide (possible population control) as detailed in the myth of the God-protected golden-horde of the Umman Manda.

    Judah, in contrast, is a city dwelling tribe who was notoriously hostile to Israel. And who was likely behind the conspiracy that led to Israel’s “abduction” by one of its long-term urban enemies: Assyria.

    That he claimed to be the literal son of god is another later falsification.

    Not very relevant. “Son of God” is a highly esoteric term. It generally means “son of the nobility”. See the earlier anti-race mixing texts which describe and condemn the actions of the “sons of god” mixing with the “daughters of men” to create the dangerous “nephilim” that were the reason for God destroying the previous iteration of the World.

    Is Christ the singular “Son of God”, or is the term a concept? As Christ uses it, it may just mean that he has Royal Israeli Blood.

    If one wanted to believe solely a traditional exoteric religious concept of “son of god”, then it has to be observed that the multi-god form is an Indo-European concept that would divide the originating theology of Christ from his supposed secret pro-Jewish origin.

    But the reality is that ‘Son of God” has a specific meaning and applies to category of real men.

    Divinity, divine paternity, three days in the underworld followed by a glorious return to life, eternal bliss for the righteous in Elysium – these are all pagan theological constructs current in the Roman world during Christianity’s formative period.

    The word “Pagan” has no meaning beside “not Jewish”. Its meaningless and its essentially nothing but an anti-gentile term.

    They would have been abominable heresies to the pious Jew who Jesus was

    Christ was not a “pious Jew”. He noted that the Jews were the children of the Devil, and condemned them as such. Which is a reference to their descent from Cain and the Serpent. Christ is the God of Israel.

    – if he was an actual man, and not a composite figure like Abraham, Moses, Solomon, and others in Jewish mythology.

    The mythology has a basis in real events, but the takeaway has to be allegorical.

    Most of Christ”s persona is as a magical counter to the Jewish cultic practice of non-Jewish human sacrifice to achieve their ends.

    Along with the reversal of original sin that put the events in motion that had Abel slaughtered, resurrecting the Jewish murder victim is the magical result that the Catholic Mass is meant to effect.

    The Christian original sin was the exchange of being given the environment and cultural exchange to develop technology (knowledge of the gods) in exchange for the female race mixing with the Serpent / southern Neanderthal tribes.

    Original sin is ritually reversed through eating Christ and thereby returning authority over nature, from the urban dwellers, to Christ and Heaven.

    Cain the city dweller kills Abel the Shepherd / Ram-Lamb / and Hills dweller. Christ is the resurrected Lamb. An act which is meant to reverse the Jewish ritual magic of slaughtering the Paschal Lamb (the Jews hold that Cain’s slaughtering of Abel was the first Passover). The Jewish paschal lamb barely being metaphor for the sons of non-Jewish tribes.

  13. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @brabantian

    Christianity will remain forever infected by the virus it was intended to combat. –Guyénot

    International Hebrewism/Zionism will remain forever flouted by Moses Judaism and by Christianity (not the pseudo-“Judeo-Christianity” of the neocons, the evangelical Zionists, the gay mafia and Hebrew infiltrated Church, etc).

    It’s more sensible to view Christianity and Islam as Jewish-created vehicles to extend Jewish power, by giving large empires an ideology with a core of devotion enshrining the Jewish cult.

    The Christianity of Western Civilization was always what the Hebrew psychopaths and Zionists have labeled “anti-Semitic.”
    https://biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm
    and
    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/a-world-without-jews

    Islam also has very little tolerance for Hebrew psychopaths and Zionism, which is why the Zionists did 9/11 and blamed it on the Muslims.
    http://www.judeofascism.com/2020/05/hebrew-sayanim-and-911-conspirator.html

    True Christianity has enemies coming from every angle, but are pretty much all led and organized by Hebrew psychopaths and Zionists who think they have knocked off Western Civilization and now are trying to finish off Islam, in order to set up their ZOG New World Order. They’ll then quickly finish off the goy useful idiots who made common cause with them. That’s was the plan, anyway.

    But they’re just starting to get a whiff of the monumental mistake they have made, and that they were always destined to make. You see, Moses delivered the Hebrew psychopaths from slavery so he could punish them for their treason and give them the death penalty they deserved. Now Christianity is going to deliver the death penalty to the same group of Hebrew scum and their whores for their treason, and its going to use all the nations hijacked and abused by the Hebrew psychopaths and their Globalist whores to do it.

    • Replies: @Druid
  14. Even though I was steeped in premillenial dispensationalism subsequent to my conversion I have divested myself of its perfidious influence. I have come to believe the bible teaches with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 God signaled the end of the temple/sacrificial economy and His people were now Jews and Gentiles gathered together with no need for the sacrificial system and the rite of circumcision to mark one as set apart to God was now seen in the sign of baptism.

    “Christian Zionism is blasphemy. It is a heresy. Christians have no theological stake whatsoever in the modern State of Israel. It is an anti-God, anti-Christ nation. Until it repents and says ‘blessed is He Who comes in the Name of the Lord,’ it will continue to be under the wrath of God. The modern State of Israel permits the persecution of Christians and Christian missionaries. We must pray that God will change the hearts of Jews, as of all other pagans, to receive Christ. But to support the enemies of the Gospel is not the mark of a Gospel minister, but of an anti-Christ” – James B Jordan

    There is much to digest in this essay and I would not insult the author with further comment until I have read it more carefully.

  15. Ruckus says:

    The modern day country of Israel is not the nation of Israel, and today’s “jews” are descendants of converts in both Palestine and Khazaria.

    The real nation of Isreal is most likely the modern-day Europeans and their descendants.

    Pretty big fundamental error by the author…

  16. Oracle says:

    Circumcision and passing on horrendous war propaganda to the children are both forms of child abuse.

    • Agree: anarchyst, Fox, Kratoklastes
  17. Finally, someone who is not a retard talks about the Bible. And thank you. That really made a lot of sense out of all that rubbish. As a recovering survivor of Christianity it has been very difficult coming to terms with the psychic trauma that is Christianity. This article is worth its word count in gold.

    Leaving Christianity was never a decisive single decision for me. It was so deeply embedded in my psyche that it was a very long and gradual process removing this spiritual parasite out of my soul. Often one step ahead would take me two steps back.

    But now I am almost cleansed. And your article convinced me completely of what I long suspected: yahweh is a demon. Before it was just a vague misgiving. Now it is a certain realization.

    Christianity really is just judaism for the goyim.

    Into the trash can it goes.

    • Thanks: FB
  18. Thank you, Laurent.

    “I will go to my grave hearing that horrible wail, and feeling somewhat responsible.”

    Somewhat?

    Has Nancy Wainer Cohen never witnessed how female animals react when you go after their offspring to hurt them?

    Try a bear cup for starters…

    • Replies: @ivan
    , @Skeptikal
  19. Druid says:
    @MexicanGoy

    An illegal cLaimingto know something!

  20. Druid says:
    @Chris Moore

    I sure hope your last sentence pans out. They’re being slowly putted, but I still see them winning big! Their arrogance and hubris now is astounding

  21. I wonder if it might be possible to resurrect a portion of the heresy of Marcion of Sinope; the part that held that the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament, were different.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  22. u says:

    The writer forgets that Jesus went up into the mountain and that a second supernatural being besides Jesus spoke to Jesus and the disciples whom he had brought with him. You can’t say that Jesus is God while a second supernatural being claimed to be the boss (father) in Jesus’ presence in front of witnesses. So who is the boss, according to Jesus in the Gospels it is the God from the OT; you can’t separate Jesus and Yahweh, you can’t say that Yahweh is evil and that Jesus is good and that they are somehow different, they’re on the same team. As far as that goes Satan in the Book of Job is Gods co-conspirator in murdering Jobs family and his workers and in letting Job continue to lie about loving God (because he never finds out that it was God and Satan who did what they did, of course it’s hard to love an unrestrained and unrepentant murderer). The team is getting bigger, Yahweh, Jesus, Satan, you can throw in the Holy Ghost also since the Holy Ghost murdered Ananias and Saphirra in the Acts of the apostles, all for lying about not giving the apostles mission all of their money from a property that was sold, but rather secretly keeping half of the money (a righteous person would calmly ask Ananias and Saphirra what happened that they kept half of the money, and then ask them to stay with the disciples, to not leave, but rather to hold onto their half of the money, and to do what they want with it). That’s four, count them, four separate evil supernatural beings, all one religion.

    In life the existence of a God is a belief. The existence of a God has not been shown to be an objective fact.

    While Yahweh is evil, Jesus is infinitely more evil. From a good atheist/agnostics perspective, Yahweh would be the chosen deity to exist and not Jesus, if it were only a choice between the two of them. Yahweh gives the good atheist/agnostic a hard time here on Earth while we’re alive but Jesus will never leave the good atheist/agnostic alone, dead, and having retained their dignity like Yahweh does. Jesus’ direct threat to torture us in fire for eternity has only one interpretation and that is what was written quite plainly, and all for not bowing to an evil deity, all for retaining our dignity he does evil violence to us, him having the afterlife under his control, all authority under his control. There is nothing more evil than hell. As proof, there is nothing on Earth that I would not do in order to avoid hell. I would do constant evil here on Earth until I die of old age in order to avoid hell. The belief in evil supernatural beings is a physical assault upon the believer, it makes them fear the invisible man and to fear violence by supernatural beings, there is nothing more evil than this. What a loser this Jesus is. Yahweh is a loser also but at least he is a man about it, considering his purported power, whereas Jesus is an evil perverted psychopathic sychophantic narcissist who’ll never leave you alone. As a prime example of Jesus’ evil, take the Samaritan that lives in the West Bank today, they do not worship Jesus. Surely there are many good Samaritans amongst the Samaritans, surely there are many who would stop to help the person who was robbed and beaten by the side of the road, surely there are Samaritans today who do these things, who love being this way towards their fellow human beings, well Jesus sends them straight to hell when they die, to be tortured for eternity; Jesus sends the good Samaritan to hell.

    In short, anything that is presented to you by nature, by the animals, and by the Universe, trust these sources for the information that you take in, but any information that comes from a human beings mouth or from a book, distrust this information, verify it against the creation to see if its true and verifiable or whether its just a belief, verify its trustworthiness, and also verify its righteousness.

  23. WOW. That is a heavy rap.The trouble might be an overactive left brain. Could be genetic and/or stem from psychological child abuse, a sort of cultural foot binding that causes a certain type of walk in life that makes war on everyone else. This, coupled with the actual practice of male genital mutilation, the trauma of which makes for major self obsession, might together forge fearsome personae, temporarily adaptive for some odd number of generations, but ultimately godless, unconscionable by definition.

  24. dimples says:

    It’s silly to blame Yahweh for the sins of the Jews.

  25. Franz says:
    @brabantian

    It’s more sensible to view Christianity and Islam as Jewish-created vehicles to extend Jewish power, by giving large empires an ideology with a core of devotion enshrining the Jewish cult

    Sounds like bingo to me, since Robert Graves pointed out in his 1940s book The White Goddess that there is a precident for this possibility.

    In Rome, Graves pointed out, a band of Jewish “missionaries” thinly disguised Yahweh as one of the many variations of Dionysus. The Roman authority got wind of it and had them marched out of the city. That was before Christ took Rome and you had to be honest about who your deity was.

    Some New Age types, whatever their failings, have always believed that there is power — resonance of some kind — in getting people to focus on the things you want to happen. Likely not, but the fact that it is believed is worth knowing. They believe a thought backed by emotion, compounded by millions, has power.

    Way back when, Yahwists wanted people to grovel before their volcano god. If they couldn’t do it by force, fraud would suffice. Even if it ain’t true, tens of millions of Christians and Muslims are pouring a tidal wave of focus on the god of Israel daily.

  26. Franz says:

    Our God is Your God Too, But He Has Chosen Us is Laurent Guyénot’s recent book that covers plenty of ground. The book is a collection of his Unz Review columns on this subject and my copy arrived a week ago. I strongly recommend it; he seems to have added to the articles and there’s more eye-popping things about all this than most of us ever imagined.

    The idea isn’t to hate anyone’s god, or the Jews themselves. The point is to understand how a universal need for a relationship with the eternal got hijacked. With Washington D.C. still sluicing billions in aid to Israel as the USA goes broke, the issue is no longer theoretical.

  27. A masterpiece, Dr Guyénot. Thanks! This is potentially epoch-making. The Jews need to be educated on the intrinsic evil of Judaism, though the monstrous example of the State of Israel has exposed it to many. But your essay is a major contribution.

  28. Excellent article. Humanity needs to have more of these discussions.

    However, I’d have to disagree with the notion that circumcision is somehow responsible or significantly contributing to the narcissistic-psychopathic behavior of the Yahweites. Many Christian men in the USA are also circumcised as babies due to “doctor’s advice”. Muslim males also receive circumcision (although circumcision is not mentioned in the Quran, but rather in the Hadith) – many do so even on the 7th day after birth. Yet, these groups don’t display the typical Yahweite neuroticism.

    I somewhat agree with the idea that the Torah is a programming manual. For a specific type of cult.

    Cults can be very powerful. Throughout human history we have had all kinds of cults – constructive and destructive, and even self-destructive. Mental programming can be extremely powerful, it can even override biological imperatives. My favourite example is the Heaven’s Gate cult ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_(religious_group) ) – basically a group of people believed their souls would be freed from Earth existence and reach an alien spacecraft if they committed suicide on a specific date. It sounds totally absurd, but 39 people committed ritual mass suicide on a specific date in order for their souls to reach the alien spacecraft. Judaic beliefs are similarly absurd and have no connection to Reality whatsoever, but that doesn’t mean people don’t act on them like if they were the absolute and only Truth. It’s even worse because Judaism commands its followers to “be fruitful and multiply”, essentially spreading the cult through generations.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @paranoid goy
  29. It’s always interesting to see godless people tell Christians what we have and haven’t realized. Christians—both real and faux—are as individual as any other group of people. From person to person, we are not uniform in our knowledge and understanding. This should not be too difficult to understand for someone who is way too smart for God.

  30. Christians worship a deity who hates them.

    Okay. I get it. This is yet another one of those troll columns shat out on the Unz commentariat from time to time.

    • Replies: @Sankara
  31. padre says:
    @hello56455

    And you are?Whichever way you turn it is clear, that God gave Jews a license to kill all the other nations!

  32. Seraphim says:

    Mr. Guyenot is at it again! He tries to persuade us that his Gnostico-atheistic hostility towards the Church (of which he has a perfunctory knowledge) attacked with Talmudic arguments is in fact a ‘denunciation’ of the ‘Jewish Power Cabal’ and ‘Zionism’ and ‘Yahvism’. Of course, he is not a Christian and he does not understand the Scriptures. He practices what Rene Guenon called ‘le renversement des symbols’ and selective reading (out of context) of OT passages to suit his views from the high stand of self-righteous ‘morality’.

    • Agree: Manfred Arcane
    • Replies: @Armaggedon
    , @Mr. Hack
    , @ivan
  33. Eddy Fye says:
    @Observator

    Jesus Christ came for Israel but salvation was always intended to be available to all people. Adam and Eve were not Jews and neither was Noah. God promised the first couple he would deliver their descendants and in saving Noah all mankind was represented. Christ’s encounter with the Samaritan woman proves salvation is universally applied. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+4%3A1-42&version=AKJV

    Israel rejected their Messiah and have been playing catch up ever since. The NWO is a pathetic attempt to justify missing the boat and will be headed by a false Messiah. “..you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive.” John 5:43

    • Replies: @MD
  34. I think the Old Testament should be called “The Book of Genocide” and not be considered part of the Christian bible.

    • Agree: anarchyst, Druid
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  35. Seraphim says:
    @u

    What a pile of BS excreted by a dirty sick mind!

    • Replies: @u
  36. cranc says:

    By no means a devotee, but I found Rudolf Steiner’s writing on Lucifer and Ahriman an interesting viewpoint.
    Perhaps what Steiner refered to as the ‘Ahrimanic forces’ within the spiritual world of humanity could be said to be strongly expressed within Yahwehism (materialism, controlling, concerned with heredity, gold) – although I am not aware that he wrote much about Judaism per se.
    Conversely, there is much within the Christian experience which he described as ‘Luciferic’ (aspiring toward idealism, mass emotion, sublimation).
    Steiner regarded the Christ event as a kind of ‘fact of spritual science’, and held that developing a connection with the Christ element (the incarnation of the Solar Logos on Earth) was a means by which humans could balance these two opposing forces within a human life.
    He posits that ‘evil’ is merely a form of extreme imbalance within the psyche of humans (or the spiritual realm). This makes sense to me in that the evil excersize of power in the world seems to be both extremely controlling (I think of the global surveillance grid) and yet completely out of control (moral degredation led by a pedophile ‘elite’). The Old Testament and the Talmud do seem to be a repository of a lot of unbalanced ideas, as Guyenot explains so well.

  37. @Anon

    Your assertion that Christ was not here “for all mankind” is unconfirmed in light of no given supporting evidence.

    And your assertion that it came for all mankind “is unconfirmed in light of no given supporting evidence.”

  38. @Seraphim

    Of course, he is not a Christian and he does not understand the Scriptures.

    Il comprend les “écritures” bien mieux que les chrétiens, car il n’est pas aveuglé par cette propagande et ces tissus de mensonges.

    He understands “scriptures” much better than Christians, because he is not blinded by this propaganda and these fabrics of lies.

    • Replies: @c matt
  39. Bas says:

    To be alive on this planet require food and shelter as necessarily basics wile starting wandering around. The first notable things he sees are others doing the same. In times of scarcity others are to much. This created the first law. Named, the strongest survive. All other findings and law inventions are subject to the first one. Today, after billions of years passing by, it makes no sense to blame outsiders, residing in space, of having misused the first Earth law by giving a hand to help. To survive, humans did implement, or invent, other laws. The strongest and second after the first was, looking after your own. This did made the template for all life survival, up to today.

  40. @g8way

    Read his book! ‘From Yahweh to Zion’

    • Replies: @Voatboy
    , @Jefferson Temple
  41. The. Best. Read. Ever!
    In recent memory, at least. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was hoping to fall over just this information… gods I love this site!
    I’m saving this article as legitimate research!

  42. idealogus says: • Website

    “The finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that he does not exist,” wrote Charles Baudelaire (Paris Spleen). He was wrong: the devil’s finest trick is to persuade you that he is God.”

    The Bible says much more clearly. The devil wants to be god. To sit on the throne of the most high and to be revered as a god.
    Satan does not want to trick us that he is God. He wants to be God. Directly, openly with all the pomp and power and trembling from human kind.

    • Replies: @Columba Knox
  43. The author’s prejudices destroy is argument. If he is going to quote scripture he needs to quote it all:

    He sacrificed his own son in the fire, practiced divination, sought omens, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the Lord, arousing his anger.

    – 2 Kings 26:8.

    This shows that human sacrifice was a strict no-no.

    He followed the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, engaging in the detestable practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before the Israelites.

    – 2 Kings 16:3

    Once again human sacrifice is a no-no.

    In fact the OT shows the Israelites continually failing by not doing what they are supposed to do. From a Christian perspective, this makes the Incarnation essential because there is no other way to redeem these people.

    • Replies: @ivan
  44. Anonymous[208] • Disclaimer says:

    Jews do not worship Yahweh, and they never did. Yahweh is the god of the Israelites. The only Israelites who survived the destruction of Judah were those who accepted Christ and became Christian. The jews are simply converts to pharisaism/talmudism/judaism, they have no ethnic connection to Israelites at all.

  45. The early Hebrews were not monotheists in the modern sense of the word, but henotheists – they believed in the existence of many gods and goddesses, but, as Hebrews, were supposed to exclusively worship Yahweh. Yahweh was one of the 70 sons of the supreme god El or El Elyon and being the “chosen” of Yahweh didn’t mean that they were anyone special. It was only after the return from Babylon that the Hebrew people officially shifted from henotheism to monotheism and Yahweh became the one and only god and his writ ran through the world, not just territory possessed by the Hebrews. Secular historians think that henotheism persisted even in the time of Jesus.

    Jesus’ message was for the lost sheep of Israel and NOT Gentiles. Recall his referring to the Canaanite woman who requesting healing as a dog. Jesus, along with John the Baptist and Paul (at least at first) thought that the world was coming to an end very soon and that Yahweh and his messiah (Jesus himself?) would come to set the world to right. Paul, who never met Jesus in the flesh but only in visions, created a religion that appealed to Gentiles which included deifying Jesus. The Proclaimer became the Proclaimed.

  46. gotmituns says:
    @brabantian

    That’s pretty much what Alfred Rosenberg said in his “Myth of the twentieth Century.”

  47. bjondo says:

    Rip the Torah from the Christian Bible.
    Excise the Judaists from the Christian Bible.

    Smaller but true and clean and what is needed.

    Marcion and early Christians did this.

    5 dancing shlomos

  48. @g8way

    The “Bible” and its contents are are tales of sound and fury, sophomoric in the extreme and a millstone around the neck of human development. Transcendence of the material is to be found in other metaphysics, those that do without childish anthropomorphic fairy tales. Judaism, Christianity, Islam… all superstitious codswallop that plays upon the emotions, not the intellect. Materialism (non-transcendent atheism) in the other hand is a kind of depressing nihilism that is equally as spiritually growth-stunting.Then we have the perverts who go in for “satanism”, the worst of all.

    Sigh.

  49. Has Laurent Guyenot studied the psyche and influence of Augustine of Hippo who did so much to incorporate Hebrew scripture into the belief system of “Christianity” of 5th century (former) Roman Empire?

    Augustine’s synthesis of Plato’s philosophy with Christian beliefs are widely adulated, but the more I learn about Augustine, the less impressive he is.

  50. The author conflates God and Satan and then really goes off the rails.

    GK Chesterton answered HG Wells, and others, here

    https://ccel.org/ccel/chesterton/everlasting/everlasting.iii.html

  51. @Wood Stove

    “As a recovering survivor of Christianity it has been very difficult coming to terms with the psychic trauma that is Christianity.”

    As a Christian (albeit with a few asterisks and footnotes), I’m honestly curious what trauma the philosophy inflicted in your life. My own experience has welcomed it as a source of strength in times of struggle, and a source of conviction in moments of doubt.

    Depending on how one enumerates – by book, by word, verse or even letter — the exact middle of the Bible is Psalm 118:8, “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.” Not only is that the heart of the Bible, it’s also my favorite verse. Choosing between a cosmic construct of perfection and light, or the scum-sucking swamp dwellers that surround us in our daily lives, is a pretty easy choice.

  52. red rose says:
    @hello56455

    @hello56455

    You are NOT very bright are you? Do you know that the Bible contains the OLD TESTIMENT AND THE NEW TESTIMENT? Well, part of the Old Testiment of the Bible contains a chapter called “Esther.” https://www.biblestudytools.com/books-of-the-bible/

  53. Saggy says: • Website
    @brabantian

    and also one of the dozen or so prominent Jewish holocaust deniers

    Who are they by name?

  54. Wally says:
    @Digital Samizdat

    “It has been suggested that traumas can be transmitted “epigenetically”. According to a study conducted under the direction of Rachel Yehuda at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York, “the trauma of the Holocaust is transmitted genetically” by “epigenetic heredity”;[18]”

    – IOW, keep the cash flowing.
    – IOW, keep the fake & impossible “holocaust” narrative going and if you don’t like it you’ll be jailed, persecuted.
    – And what “study” is she referring to?

    recent:
    A Billion Gazillion to One / Million$ More for ‘Never Again Education – Indoctrination Act’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13253

    ‘Piles of Corpses at Dachau, Buchenwald Were Dead German Soldiers Staged for Propaganda by Jews in US Military’: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13254

  55. red rose says:

    If both Christians and Muslims took a step back and looked at the evidence and realized that both religions were started by Jews, then I think we can slowing wake up from our sleep.

  56. Saggy says: • Website
    @u

    Jesus’ direct threat to torture us in fire for eternity

    Reference?

    • Replies: @u
  57. anarchyst says:
    @RumpelstiltskinTheGoy

    /However, I’d have to disagree with the notion that circumcision is somehow responsible or significantly contributing to the narcissistic-psychopathic behavior of the Yahweites./

    I must disagree.

    Circumcision (male genital mutilation) is a barbaric practice that should be outlawed worldwide. There are very few cases where it is deemed “medically necessary”.

    Not only does the “mohel” remove the foreskin, he fellates the infant after the deed is done. This transmits any STDs or venereal diseases that the “mohel” possesses. As many STDs or venereal diseases do not manifest themselves prominently until adulthood, this practice is responsible for the mental illnesses that many jews possess.

    Circumcision is a part of the dysfunctional “education” that jews receive from birth, always being told that they must “dwell apart” because everyone else hates them because of their cultural superiority. Add to that , the celebration of jewish holidays (holy days) that are all based on war, conflict and genocide of all others who are not “chosen”.

    Circumcision might not always be a precursor of mental illness in jews, but it should not be discounted.

  58. Saggy says: • Website

    Another absolutely astounding article by Guyenot. What he is writing is (for the most part) perfectly obvious just from reading the Bible, but no one seems to have noticed for 2000 years ! It would be unbelievable if it had not happened.

    One quibble, why call Wesley Clark a ‘phony’ whistleblower. His revelation links the Old Testament genocide of Canaan and the current US/Israeli wars in the middle east better than anything else …
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/4qvWFH2jOiPo/

  59. Who would win the battle between the blood thirsty Yahweh (the red eyed, frizzy haired god of the Jew) and Kali (the half naked goddess of the Hindoo)?

    If you control the money supply then your mythology can become historical to the point of being able to brainwash the unwashed masses …

  60. Orchid says:
    @MexicanGoy

    WASP and Philosophy ?

    • Replies: @Old and Grumpy
  61. Ian Smith says:

    Looked at with fresh eyes, the Old Testament reads like a chronicle of an Iron Age Manson Family.

    • Replies: @aandrews
  62. @SolontoCroesus

    Has Laurent Guyenot studied the psyche and influence of Augustine of Hippo…

    Not precisely. But my impression is also that the adoption of the Torah within the Catholic canon (as opposed to the Marcionite church) owes a lot to Augustine and more generally to Carthaginians. Having read a bit of Tertullian’s works, I am almost certain that he was a Jew. Please tell me more about your research into Augustine.

    • Thanks: SolontoCroesus
    • Replies: @lysias
    , @SolontoCroesus
    , @Anon
  63. Che Guava says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    Well said, M. Guyenot clearly is very well-read, but not enough in this field to differentiate Marcion from Gnosticism as by Valentian etc.

    I find the latter as of interest because of the clear influence of slightly decayed Buddhism, of course, the Silk Roads, but the other great demon than Yahweh, the insane demon Mohammed, closed the roads for several hundred years.

  64. Lot’s of good info here by Laurent, but I think he goes of the rail when he speaks of Christ being a voice against Talmudic racism and Jewish supremacy. There are many parallels that exist between the teachings of Jesus and the Jewish Talmud. Charles Giuliani does a good job bringing these connections to light.

    http://www.renegadebroadcasting.com/truth-hertz-christ-taught-from-the-talmud-10-21-19/

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
    , @DaveE
  65. may the God of Israel have mercy on all of us,
    for His mercy is everlasting and boundless,
    and He knows that we are weak and clueless.

    • Replies: @paranoid goy
  66. aandrews says:
    @Ian Smith

    LOL The look doesn’t have to be fresh.

  67. anon[414] • Disclaimer says:

    “The psychopath projects his own cruelty and lust for power on others. And so he thinks that those who resist his domination are out to get him. Therefore he must destroy them first. From the biblical point of view, nations must either recognize Israel’s sovereignty, and their kings “fall prostrate before [Israel], faces to the ground” (Isaiah 49:23), or be destroyed. Yahweh told Israel that he has identified “seven nations greater and stronger than yourself,” that “you must put under the curse of destruction,” and not “show them any pity.” As for their kings, “you will blot out their names under heaven” (Deuteronomy 7:1-2, 24). And we recall that, according to phony whistleblower Wesley Clark, son of Benjamin Jacob Kanne, the neocons had plans for destroying precisely seven nations—another proof that they are possessed by Yahweh.”

    You could also say that seven nations leaders were rather paranoid and thought we were out to get them and used psycho-babble to bs them and our country first. Because being honest, about the whole situation in the middle-east isn’t anyone’s strong suit. The biggest perpetrators of trouble have been other muslims in and around the UN and living in foreign countries associated closely with the old soviet union and it’s jews. Once the wall fell they wormed their way ever closer inward toward us for support and our large contingent of communist sympathizers overthrowing all of our old allies, like Saddam and the Taliban.

    As for the rest I’ll let you and all the rest wallow in your own muck. Something about casting pearls.

    • Troll: paranoid goy
    • Replies: @c matt
  68. The god of the zionists is satan!

  69. Anonymous[336] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    Generally, this use of “recovering” is coded language exposing an adept of of the quasi-religious Alcoholics Anonymous cult (or one of its offshoots) preying upon human frailty to recruit new members in which recovery becomes a lifelong process for the simple reason it doesn’t work. Cult members can’t get enough of this “recovering” business, of supposedly taking responsibility for the wreckage some addiction or behavior caused in their lives while in practice, however, these confessions or “telling their story” are part of the victimology “blame game” of psychological transference that invariably comes around to blaming Christianity’s supposed strictures on their fall from grace. The “psychic trauma” that was supposedly difficult to come to grips with typically relates to sexual problems in which this sort of “conversion” amounts to little more than claiming “Christianity made me do it.”

    A closer look at these 12-step cults will prove they are essentially New Age adaptations of Theosophy and decidedly antiChristian to their core, even as adepts claim to remain Christian to ensnare new members. This is similar to the way Freemasonry reaches that antiChristian objective through steps of supposed enlightenment, progressing through a simulacrum of passage through the underworld to rebirth and salvation solely in this life as an adept of a psychic cult. Like Freemasons, the adepts of step cults develop the personality traits associated with Gnosticism typifying so many of the obtuse comments here in which embarrassing habits are no longer a moral flaw, but source of enlightenment.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  70. @RumpelstiltskinTheGoy

    Many Christian men in the USA are also circumcised as babies due to “doctor’s advice”.

    Are these the same doctors who compress women’s breasts between plates and bombard them with carcinogenic rays until they see cancer, or the loincloth and beads type?

    Muslim males also receive circumcision blah-blah. Yet, these groups don’t display the typical Yahweite neuroticism.

    Now, what does a Yankee share with Israelis and “fanatical Muslims” on my teevee? The bombed-out cities? The dead babies? The continuous wail for righteous war upon the Infidel/Goyim/anti-Globalists?
    Nah! No correlation at all…

    • Replies: @Druid
  71. Well, I think we need to get the parrallels correct. When Satan appears before Christ to temp him his promise is soley that of earthly goods — that’s it. Nothing beyond that.

    God’s offer to hos son, his promise of a power that exceeds material wealth while not excluding it. So even if one wants to deny God’s existence or not give a hoot one way or another , one should at least get the comparisons correct as to what is on the table.

    earthly goods verses that and more beyond the material table set with platinum knives and forks and gold lined alabaster plates.

  72. Laurent Guyénot, you’ve have become a “bad” influence on me by writing about every doubt I have had over the Bible. My late mother would be very mad at you. Thank you for the intelligent confirmation.

  73. @anarchyst

    I agree that circumcision should be outlawed, but I believe it’s not the main cause behind their psychopathy. I also think that if it ever gets banned, its proponents will just find out ways to practice it illegally.

    IMO what must happen for humanity to be free is that this cult must be deconstructed. Christians don’t help the cause at all. Evangelical Christians in particular are extremely brainwashed and are idol worshiping them (they consider them “god-chosen” – an act that is antithetical to the true Christian teachings, but hey who cares about the true teachings, right?). I don’t even think deconstructing it is possible at this point. We can only hope it will disappear by itself before damaging the Earth more.

    On the other hand I’d be more than happy to see a “New Old Testament” in which all the genocidal teachings have been revised:

    “You must completely eradicate the idea of Yahweism, on high mountains, on hills, under any spreading tree; you must tear down their star, smash their sacred menorah, burn their sacred books, destroy their temples and obliterate their name from that place.” (New Deuteronomy 12:2-3)

    • Replies: @anonymous
  74. @Saggy

    why call Wesley Clark a ‘phony’ whistleblower

    I might be wrong, but I strongly suspect that Wesley Clark is phony. I explained why in a previous article https://www.unz.com/article/zionism-crypto-judaism-and-the-biblical-hoax/:

    General Wesley Clark, former Supreme Commander for NATO in Europe (he led the NATO agression against Serbia twenty years ago), wrote, and repeated in numerous occasions, that one month after September 11, 2001, a Pentagon general showed him a memo “that describes how we’re gonna take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia and Sudan and finishing off with Iran.” Wesley Clark has managed to pass as a whistleblower, but I believe he belongs to what Gilad Atzmon sees as the Jewish controlled opposition, together with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now who interviewed him. Only in 1999 has he revealed being the son of Benjamin Jacob Kanne and the proud descendant of a lineage of Kohen rabbis. It is hard to believe that he has never heard about the Bible’s “seven nations”. Is Clark a crypto-Zionist trying to write history in biblical terms, while blaming these wars on WASP Pentagon warmongers?

    In my view, the “seven nation” meme is a biblical signature, and Clark must know it. Hence my hypothesis. Beware of Jews (and, in that case, crypto-Jews, or crypto-neocons) trying to blame the Goyim for the mess they create. Besides, Clark, like Amy Goodman and the other Jews who interviewed him, do not question the Bin-Laden-did-it hoax.

    • Agree: Druid
    • Replies: @Saggy
    , @Ronny
  75. “The core of the Hebrew Bible is the Mosaic covenant. The deal is simple: in exchange for exclusive worship and obedience to his laws stressing strict separateness from other peoples, Yahweh will make the Israelites rule over humankind: “follow his ways, keep his statutes, his commandments, his customs, and listen to his voice,” and Yahweh “will raise you higher than every other nation he has made”; “You will make many nations your subjects, yet you will be subject to none” (Deuteronomy 26:17-19 and 28:12).”

    Again, the issue here is an incorrect assessment of the contract. The contract is not an open contract. It has conditions which I think Mr. Laurent Guyenot, ignores in his commentary, despite their clear presence in the cite. The contract includes very specific admonitions/conditions that Israel ignores thereby violating the same. And as indicated by the primary reference the Torah, Israel does become the subject of other nations.

    Another vital aspect of the exclusive contract is based on something very unique among contracts. That is that Israel is not chosen to be a light of Israel — no. Her uniqueness exists because her founder was found faithful and that faithfulness was chosen so as to be a light to others to be faithful, not to Israel, but to the divine.

    So while I think it is valid to critique Israel and the relationship between Israel, God and other nation states and people; the foundations what is expected, given in exchange for what should be correct and in these examples, they are not.

    Furthermore, since the entry of Christ, his covenant is not about the glorification of Israel – not even close. But the new covenant predicated on two foundations as first established —

    faithfulness and forgiveness to the goal of redemption or restoration of that which was lost first by Eve and then by Adam.

    • Replies: @Wood Stove
  76. Alfred says:

    It is important to keep in mind that the Old Testament is a work of fiction. Much of it bears little relationship to reality. Here are a few examples:

    1- The Ashkenazim have no connection to the Jews of the Bible.

    2- The Jews were never in Egypt. Ancient Egyptians were excellent at recording their history and there is nothing to indicate that the Jews were there at that time.

    3- However, the Jews were in so-called South Yemen and the west of so-called Saudi Arabia (hijaz)

    4- Palestine was desert at the time the Jews were allegedly promised a land of milk and honey.

    5- The Babylonians took the Arabs (including the Jews) away from Yemen because they were raiding the caravans trading between southern Arabia and Petra (Jordan). When released by the Persians, some went back and some went to Palestine.

    • Replies: @Hiram of Tyre
    , @ivan
  77. @Johnny Walker Read

    I basically agree, but it depends of which Jesus we are talking about. Christianity is a sedimentation of several layers, and at some level, it is strongly anti-Jewish. At the core, though, it is possible to see christianity as a Jewish trick. Having as model a man crucified by Pilate under Jewish pressure is sure to create some kind of “learned helplessness” in front of Jewish Power. More in my article https://www.unz.com/article/the-holy-hook/
    “Christianity is the revenge of the wandering Jew », once said Adolf (quoted in David Irving, Hitler’s War, p. 184).

  78. If I were a Christian, I would quote John 8:44. But I am not arguing from a Christian viewpoint, for although I accept the principle that the Gospel story was designed as a cure for the Jews’ mental enslavement by the Torah, I also consider that, unless it could vomit the Old Testament, Christianity will remain forever infected by the virus it was intended to combat.

    Touché

  79. 450.org says:

    Interestingly, according to 1Kings 10:14, the amount of gold hoarded each year into Salomon’s temple was “666 talents of gold”—the “number of the Beast” in Revelation 13:18! Make of it what you want. Or ask Jared Kushner to explain it.

    HaHa!! Good one.

    The recalcitrant, intractable, moronic, contradictory so-called Christians (CINOs — Christians In Name Only) who believe Trump is the Second Coming and believe the 666 Mark of the Beast nonsense fail to take note of this and the significance. Like candy from babies.

  80. 450.org says:

    It is important to keep in mind that the Old Testament is a work of fiction. Much of it bears little relationship to reality.

    Fair enough, but by that very same logic, so too is the New Testament a work of fiction.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
  81. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    The Torah is embedded in Christianity, hence the brutal imperialism of Spain, Portugal, Holland, France, Russia, Britain and America …

    Christians, seeing themselves as Yahweh’s children, admit the Jews to their lands and institutions, which the Jews then subvert to their own purpose in accordance with their more exclusive understanding of the Bible.

    What is needed for a more humane world is elimination of the vicious racism of the Torah from both Jewish and Christian thought.

    Perhaps the Jews will start the ball rolling by apologizing for the Torah and the last several thousand years of Talmudic Jewish racism.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  82. gay troll says:

    YHWH may be considered a “devil” (the devil being a source of “evil”, and evil being defined as “ignorance”). YHWH is a priestly inversion of divine truth used to keep common people deluded. The true God may be called HWHY or He-She and beats no resemblance to the bloodthirsty rapist of the Torah.

    Now the evangelion of Jesus Christ was written to supersede the old Jewish religion, to “fulfill the law” of Moses; Jesus controverted messianic Jewish expectations of a warrior king with Stoic pacifism. To the extent that he is the adversary of YHWH’s chauvinism, Jesus Christ is literally Satanic! He is the one who rejected ancient Hebraic values in favor of Roman imperialism.

    By calling its own enemies Satanic, despite being Satanic itself, Christianity has created an endless ontological quagmire among its adherents. It is no wonder that Christians are constant hypocrites. If YHWH is a lie, and Satan is the adversary of the lie, then count me as a Satanist. And curses upon Christianity which despite its criticism of Jewish values has preserved the Torah as a source of ”history”.

    666

  83. @Peter D. Bredon

    The inventors of religions were only interested in power, wealth and sex by brainwashing the masses and the rest is all bulls..t! It is being practiced amongst all openly today!

  84. @Alfred

    It is important to keep in mind that the Old Testament is a work of fiction. Much of it bears little relationship to reality.

    Very much so.

    To add to the points you brought up, the so-called “Invasion of Canaan” and the “mass-killing of the Canaanites” never happened either. I can’t recommend Dr. Hayes’ following class (available in video, audio and transcript) enough – it demystifies facts from fiction on the OT:

    “Also archaeological evidence contradicts the picture in Joshua. In the Ancient Near East, destroyed cities tended to be leveled, and then a new city would just be built on top of the ruins, and you would have these slowly rising mounds–each one of those is called a tell (so you may have heard of Tell Dor?). These are mounds which represent the successive layers of destroyed and rebuilt cities. And excavations will reveal the destruction layers under the floor of new cities. So following the biblical account, we would expect evidence of a thirteenth century destruction of Canaanite cities.

    And archaeologists for a long time were convinced that they would find these destruction layers. But they were disappointed. They have found really no evidence of extensive conquest and destruction in thirteenth and twelfth century archaeological layers. Some of the sites that are said to be destroyed by Joshua and the Israelites weren’t even occupied in this period, the late Bronze Age, beginning of the Iron Age; the Iron Age begins around 1200. Excavations at Jericho and Ai indicate that both of these towns were laid waste at least 200 years before the probable time of Joshua; so there weren’t even any walls in Jericho at the time of Joshua. Of 20 identifiable sites that were said to be conquered or captured by Joshua and the next generations, only two show destruction layers for this time, Hazor and Beth-el. And yet interestingly enough, Hazor’s capture described in Joshua is contradicted elsewhere in the Bible, because in Judges 4 and 5, it is still a Canaanite city. It is said there that it is still a Canaanite city and Joshua failed to take it.”

    “The Deuteronomistic History: Life in the Land (Joshua and Judges)”
    http://openmedia.yale.edu/projects/iphone/departments/rlst/rlst145/transcript12.html

    From: “Introduction to the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible)”, Dr. Christine Hayes, Yale University
    http://openmedia.yale.edu/projects/iphone/departments/rlst/rlst145.html

    • Thanks: Alfred
    • Replies: @ivan
  85. MD says:
    @Eddy Fye

    Neither was Abraham a Jew,BTW.
    An instance where this may be appropriate:” there are not many wise according to the flesh; not many powerful, not many noble,
    27 but the stupidity of the world God chooses, that He may be disgracing the wise, and the weakness of the world God chooses, that He may be disgracing the strong,
    28 and the ignoble and the contemptible things of the world God chooses, and that which is not, that He should be discarding that which is,“.
    God has purpose: 22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
    23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ’s in His presence;
    24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
    25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
    26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
    27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
    28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)

  86. 450.org says:

    The psychopath projects his own cruelty and lust for power on others. And so he thinks that those who resist his domination are out to get him. Therefore he must destroy them first.

    This is Trump to a T. He truly is the King of the Jews as he proclaims and Israel does not refute or deny.

  87. @idealogus

    Howdy,

    Satan, the Devil’s bastard—of—a—boy, ANTICHRIST, the s0—called Pope………

    KING JESUS Supremely HATES, HATES, HATES him and roman catholics………

    O, so glad there other t r u e Christians at this awesome forums………….

    Sir, Unz, thank you very much, again, for your website;
    will you please declare, officially, why you removed your videos
    and the timing of that doing………….

    AYE………….

  88. Pater says:
    @Wood Stove

    Abrahamism in all it’s forms is a plague upon civilization. Guyenot’s coverage of the topic is excellent, to dive deeper take a look at Curt Doolittle’s work.
    https://propertarianism.com/2019/07/09/a-short-course-on-abrahamism-and-the-jq/

    • Replies: @anonymous
  89. c matt says:
    @Armaggedon

    That is similar to saying an Indian who speaks impeccable French has a better understanding of being French than a Frenchman, because he is not blinded by the “French” propaganda.

    • Agree: Seraphim
  90. You are falling for the same lies that you are proclaiming. It the same old pseudo intellectual “truth”. you are doing the bidding of your masters.

  91. DaveE says:
    @Johnny Walker Read

    There are many parallels that exist between the teachings of Jesus and the Jewish Talmud.

    It’s the other way around. Christ preceded the formal Talmud by a few hundred years – although Christ did rail against “the oral tradition” which is/was the Talmud before it was committed to print.

    I’d say, more likely, the Jews borrowed (stole) some of the more palatable teachings of Christ (which were, in turn, Buddhist teachings) to use as window dressing for their vile, demonic codified Judaism in the form of the Talmud.

    (((They))) are pretty good at stuff like that, don’cha know……

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  92. Levtraro says:

    I believe that humans are under the influence of the ideas that they have collectively engendered over the ages, for ideas are spiritual forces.

    This is very reminiscent of Max Stirner’s Der Einzige und sein Eigentum. It is the most profound insight in political philosophy.

  93. When getting thick into the passages of the book of the Lord I like to check a man’s scholarship and ask “What kind of car does God Drive? And if they do not know that God drives a plymouth* then I am forced to wonder what command does he really have of this vast and deep ancient book.

    *It says right there in Genesis “And He drove them out of the garden in his Fury.” Get it? Plymouth.

    Anyway, I consider the snake story as the emergence of consciousness, particularly self -consciousness where Man Adam and Eve awaken to dualities and think of them selves modestly and now realize they are mortal creatures. They were always mortal animals, but were unaware of this fact until a seductive talking snake (or mushroom) introduced them to the Tree of Knowledge.

    BUT why did God cast them of his garden? “Behold the man has become like one of us [plural?] knowing good from evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and also take from the Tree of Life, and eat, and live for ever”… “God sent him forth from the garden of Eden.”

    Because consciousness brings awareness of mortality, it sets off a fear of death and desire for immortality. Immortality too is what Gilgamesh sought in his long travel after his buddy died, and long centuries before the Genesis was written. It is a natural impulse we have trouble making peace with. That is why I like the admonition in Genesis about not messing with the Tree of Life. It seems to presage the arrogance and folly of genetic engineering today.

    p.s. Does anyone know of a Taoist version of the Old Testament? Where ever book is boiled down to two or three paragraphs of the best pearls of wisdom, and without all the toxic tribal warfare, genealogy, supremacy and genocide. That could be a very redeeming edition.

    • Replies: @Mental Lockdown
  94. c matt says:
    @anon

    You could also say that seven nations leaders were rather paranoid and thought we were out to get them

    Except that they were correct. How long have we been dropping bombs on these nations? Where are Saddam and Qadaffi right now? How friendly have we been with Assad, and what could we possibly have done to cause him concern? And Iran – nothing but kind loving encouragement for the past 60 years.

    You’re right, these guys are nothing but paranoid.

  95. When Christian leaders put together the Bible they included the Old Testament to show that previous history was preparing for the coming of the Christ.

    But it was a fatal mistake, a poison pill inside Christianity. The history of Christianity has overwhelming evidence of the terrible influence of the Old Testament on Christians. They most often confuse it with Christianity and even with Jesus.

    Note today the example of rich and powerful Christians in US institutions that go to church on Sunday then on Monday continue their vile and deceitful scheming to increase the suffering of some foreign entity or even of the American people. It is a massive contradiction between what they constantly do and the message of Jesus but not for a second can they question themselves.

    Early in the 20th century Freud and Jung discussed the future post-Christian West that they both predicted. We are in that emerging era that unconsciously has become possessed and inflated by the old gods that it thinks it has cast off.

    • Agree: DaveE
  96. buzzwar says:
    @anarchyst

    “He goes to court before you to complain.” I may add.

  97. Pater says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    Mr. Guyenot, your coverage of this subject is fascinating and enlightening. I think this following angle would compliment your treatise.
    https://propertarianism.com/2019/07/09/a-short-course-on-abrahamism-and-the-jq/

  98. @gay troll

    The true God may be called HWHY or He-She and beats no resemblance to the bloodthirsty rapist of the Torah.

    A noun in English language cannot be referred to He-She, it can only be refereed to “It”. There is no “It” in Arabic/Hebrew language. And, all the nouns are either feminine or masculine and the gender for gender must be matched. The noun God is written in English as eloh by Jews, and ilah by Muslims. It is the same word in Arabic/Hebrew.

    eloh/ilah are feminine nouns. allah is two words, ‘al’ which is the definite article ‘the’ and ‘ilah’, thus making it allah.

    yhwh elohim, the word yhwh has no vowels. When we put vowels in yhwh, it becomes ya’huwah. It means, O’ He!

    O’ He Elohim!

    • Replies: @RT
    , @Hiram of Tyre
  99. @CanSpeccy

    “…The Torah is embedded in Christianity, hence the brutal imperialism of Spain, Portugal, Holland, France, Russia, Britain and America …”

    As if non-Christian empires didn’t exist in history. To name a few : Egyptians (under Ramses II), Hittites, Assyrians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Mongols, Turks, Aztecs and Incas.

    The Dutch and British Empires were mostly secular, inspired by commercial motives, not religious ones.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  100. 450.org says:

    It appears Trump & Pompeo ordered this guy’s death and Israel is providing cover by saying there doesn’t seem to be any foul play involved.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/17/world/middleeast/israel-china-ambassador-du-wei.html

    Trump administration officials have repeatedly warned Israeli officials that intelligence sharing between the two close allies could be impaired or compromised over such investments by China.

    In April, Mr. Du gave a written interview to the Israeli newspaper Makor Rishon in which he insisted that China was a “responsible, rule-abiding and trustworthy country.”

    “The investment from China has no geopolitical agenda, no political strings, and poses no threat to Israel’s national security,” he wrote.

    Mr. Du also compared the demonization of China over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic to the historic mistreatment of Jews.

    “It is scapegoating,” he told the newspaper. “In history, it has happened many times when the causes of diseases were wrongfully blamed on a specific group of people, which is despicable and should be condemned. The disease is the enemy of all mankind, and the world must fight it together.”

    The subject came up again during Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s visit to Israel last week, when he repeated his accusation that China has withheld information that could have helped other countries save lives during the pandemic.

    • Replies: @Wally
  101. Agent76 says:

    “I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.” C. S. Lewis

    May 17, 2020 Jessica Long – I Am Second

    How does a girl with congenital defects in her legs born to a teenage mother in Siberia become one of the most decorated female athletes in US history?

    • Replies: @450.org
  102. The critical error in this is Calvin’s equation of the Children of Israel with the Jews. John 8:33 disproves this: never having been in captivity (as all of Israel had been in Egypt), they were descended from Abraham all right, but via Esau, which identifies them as descended from Edomite converts during the reign of John Hyrcanus in the previous century. (Josephus documents this).

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  103. Milton says:

    The author of this piece makes the mistake of conflating genuine Judaism with Zionism. That would be like conflating King Herod with King David, or Simon bar Giora with Moses, or conflating the Antichrist with the Messiah. That would be conflating the satanic Talmud and Kabbalah with the Holy Law and Covenant.

    • Replies: @Saggy
    , @Druid
  104. Hossein says:
    @Observator

    Jesus was a Palestinian from Palestine. The Judaization of Jesus ,Issa Ibn Maryam, is a tool created by the Zionists to legitimize their crimes against humanity and at the same time deceive the Christians and goading them to support those atrocities and the ultimate goal of world domination .

    The stupid and reactionary American Christian fundamentalists are the best example of such deception for they have become so drugged and deceived that they put the interest of Talmudic Zionists above the interest and well being of their own nation and country, the United States.

    • Agree: DaveE, FLgeezer
  105. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    As if non-Christian empires…

    What’s that to do with my point?

    Nothing.

    Sure, the Mongols and the Turks, the Assyrians and the Huns acted just as the Torah directed the Jews to act. But that doesn’t alter the fact that the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, incorporating as it does the Jewish Torah, justified the Christian states in engaging in in exactly the same murderous and racist imperialism.

    In fact, Christianity directs different messages to different strata of society. To the elite it dictates racist imperialism. To the masses and the slaves it dictates submission with the empty promise of eternal life as a reward.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
    , @Vaterland
  106. @Talks-to-Cats

    All these theories about who is really an Israelite or a Jew (the Khazar hypothesis, etc.), are interesting but totally irrelevant to my points. What matters is that people who call themselves Jews and who believe themselves to be Jews, are under the spell of the Chosen People paradigm, that is, ultimately, of Yahweh the sociopathic god. Genetics is irrelevant here. Jews are a synthetic nation anyway. If a nation is defined by a community of ancestry, of language, and of territory, then they have none of that. The covenant (marked in theis foreskin) is what unites them, and the covenant is a plot to conquer the world.

    • Agree: DaveE
  107. DaveE says:

    This is a great piece, one of your best so far Mr. Guyenot. Thanks to you and UR , sirs.

    Lots of great comments so far, as well.

  108. u says:
    @Saggy

    Jesus said:

    “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”

    I could find more direct references to hell by Jesus if you would like.

    • Replies: @Saggy
    , @Robjil
  109. 450.org says:
    @Agent76

    How does a girl with congenital defects in her legs born to a teenage mother in Siberia become one of the most decorated female athletes in US history?

    The same way this Jessica Long’s daughter Ally was able to make the transition from male to female. By the grace of god. God, afterall, enabled the technology that’s allowing for this transition and god provides the emotional and psychological support these parents and their children need and receive from the community. So, whether god created a female with no legs or accidentally created a female trapped inside a male’s body, he, and he is a he afterall, wants everyone to know he is there to make it right and to make amends and these two Jessica Longs are living proof of that concept.

    https://www.freedomforallamericans.org/jessica-and-her-daughter-ally/

    View post on imgur.com

    • Troll: Agent76
    • Replies: @Agent76
  110. Hegar says:

    Very interesting! I didn’t know about the killing of the priests of Baal, the Lord of Heaven, to put the tribal god Yahweh in his place.

    It is true that the Old Testament shows all the sickness clearly. We are never told in school how the “poor, persecuted Jews” invaded Canan and murdered everyone – how Moses was angry at his captains for sparing the women and children of a captured city, and sent them back in there to slaughter those as well.

    There was a fierce debate among the monks about whether to attach the Torah to the New Testament. Those who wanted to pad the book to make it look more impressive and with a connection to ancient times won.

    The New Testament stories were indeed intended to break the rabbinic, Yahweh-worshiping hold on the Jewish mind. It didn’t work. Instead the Torah, called the Old Testament, was included with the New as Whites were subjugated by Constantin, slaughtered in the tens of thousands by the shores of the Mediterranean by the freed slaves and servants who harbored hatred against the Romans and Greeks and their culture, which like in all cultures was interwoven with their gods. They dressed in black – the origin of the monk coat – and spread out to smash buildings and statues, with the law told not to touch them, then gathered to brag about their work. They were the communists of their day. They also bragged about Jesus being ugly and misshappen, and they refused to take baths – “baptism is the only bath a Christian needs” – as a way to reject the normal world.

    There was an immense hostility against the ordinary society, among these slaves and servants. They destroyed the advanced Mediterranean economy, and lost the ability to make concrete – only rediscovered many centuries later. They couldn’t build or even repair the aqueducts anymore, so the bathhouses fell into decay, leading to widespread disease. Religious fanaticism took the place of law, philosophy and economic knowledge. And so Europe was weakened before the onslaught of the Arabs, Turks, Huns and Moors. And we got the race-mixed populations we see today. Germanic peoples easily conquered Gaul, Iberia and Italy, but they were not numerous enough to make a lasting impact except in some regions, the most northern in these three, which would be the most prosperous, leading to the expansion of the empires later. Alas, intermarriages made sure even this was lost. Because there was no racial thinking, only religious fanaticism. “There is no Greek nor Jew, for we are all brothas in Christ.” The blood was diluted. And Yahweh smiled. The future was instead brought by the Germanic nations to the north, with the technology and medicine we know today. But the egalitarian poison – for all except “Yahweh’s Chosen” – is still being poured over our nations.

  111. @thotmonger

    I’m not being facetious. Read around the red wording in a red letter New Testament. Think less churchy and more Tao Teh Chong when you do. Lots of parables and analogies and the putting aside of the dysfunctional Hebrew experiment.

  112. Adûnâi says:
    @CanSpeccy

    > “But that doesn’t alter the fact that the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, incorporating as it does the Jewish Torah, justified the Christian states in engaging in in exactly the same murderous and racist imperialism.”

    What was murderous or racist about the conquest of the Americas by Catholic Spain and Catholic Portugal in the 16th century? That endeavour was the definition of delusional anti-racism!

    1. The Iberians did not exterminate the Amerindians aborigines.

    2. The Iberians married the non-European savages to create disgusting offspring.

    3. The Iberians did it all for the money, not for their own race.

    4. The Iberians were such slaves to the soulless Machine, they made the greatest travesty in history of this planet – they imported millions of black as night Negroes directly from Africa to the New World.

    Christianity has led to the fascinating vast continents discovered by the daring seafarers of the edge of the Occident to be turned into the lands of Orcs and half-apes.

    And of course, the concept of the self-determination of nations – equally-worthy races, that is – led to the Aryans’ acceptance of their independence from culture and from nobility in the 19th century, and of their continued debauched existence, safe from gas chambers and from nuclear weapons. Suicidal history!

    P.S. It is incredible how Catholics such as Tolkien are so perverse. To me, it has always been obvious that a deity that demands unnatural worship is akin to what Christians call “the Enemy”. Natural worship needs no commandments! Murder the foreigners, take their land – that is a desire felt by any honest man.

    Instead, I am forced to behold the history of cuckoldry.

    © J.R.R. Tolkien – The Children of Húrin

    ‘I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of all the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair. Wherever they go, evil shall arise. Whenever they speak, their words shall bring ill counsel. Whatsoever they do shall turn against them. They shall die without hope, cursing both life and death.’

    May a free atheist materialist race of Juche Korea take the rightful place as the blossom of intelligent life on this planet thus!

  113. KenR says:

    Worthless, offensive, rubbish article. Won’t be reading anything by this author again.

    • Replies: @Druid
  114. Saggy says: • Website
    @Laurent Guyénot

    I might be wrong, but I strongly suspect that Wesley Clark is phony.

    I suspect every Jew of being a phony, and since the west is so Judaised, I suspect every goyim of being a phony. And, I have a litmus test …. anyone who exposes the holohoax is for real, and everyone else is a phony.

    By that criterion I’m afraid that even you are a phony !!! Controlled opposition !!!

    do not question the Bin-Laden-did-it hoax.

    And a lot of the unzers like to use 9/11 as a litmus test but for reasons I explain elsewhere I think that’s a really bad one ….. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12383

    So, I assume Clark really did see the document he claims, if he made it up …. I’d be really surprised. To me linking today’s Zionism with the Zionism that starts in Genesis with generous boundaries..

    On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:

    and that gets genocidal in Deuteronomy and Joshua to the point of obliterating seven nations, leaving nothing that breathes alive, is the last thing the Jews want to do. Yes? No?

    • Agree: Druid
  115. Art says:

    Darwin’s evolution destroyed the “Adam and Eve paradise on Earth” BS old testament beginning. The Jew old testament only gets worse from there on in.

    The God of the universe NEVER EVER talked to a Jew – PERIOD. The God of the universe is not cruel or kind.

    God created a universe that can build long-lasting organizations of energy. On our Earth, we humans are the highest order of the universe’s ability to organize. We are capable of intellectually unifying ourselves into organizations that can extend our lives. Western culture is the leader in this endeavor of intellectual organization.

    Jesus Christ provided the backbone philosophy of Western culture. It is the words of Jesus that form the idealism of the West.

    Fools and haters can only see Christianity from Jesus’s religious perspective – when it is His hopeful idealistic philosophy that provides the bounty that we are living.

    • Replies: @sojournerholmes
  116. BTW I don’t call God “Yahweh”… and where are those dangnabbit Hykksos?

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

  117. Mr. Hack says:
    @Seraphim

    He practices what Rene Guenon called ‘le renversement des symbols’ and selective reading (out of context) of OT passages to suit his views from the high stand of self-righteous ‘morality’.

    So why not specifically address these inaccuracies here? Here’s a chance for you to put into your own words what you’ve acquired, no doubt, from many years of study, instead of offering up a lukewarm generalization like this?

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  118. @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    Choosing between a cosmic construct of perfection and light, or the scum-sucking swamp dwellers that surround us in our daily lives, is a pretty easy choice.

    That makes no sense. The first thing is a logically inconsistent[1] fiction, and choosing it doesn’t help get rid of the second thing (parasitoid vermin), which is real.

    Choosing the fictional perfect being furnishes a crutch by which ‘believers’ attempt to cope with reality (both generally, and as blighted by parasitoid vermin).

    That’s why the second thing persists.

    [1] A perfect being is inconsistent with the world we observe. Epicurus made that clear in the 3rd century BCE with his famous trilemma (filtered through Lactantius in De Ira Dei): ‘gods’ are either unable, or unwilling, to prevent the suffering that exists and has always existed. They are either impotent or evil.

    Best example (not used by Epicurus specifically): all the slaughter required for animal life.

    Consider that we humans can make devices that get the energy they require, from sources other than the slaughter of other animals.

    If there is some ‘perfect’ omnibenevolent designer, why isn’t all life directly powered by solar energy or radiation? Is the unending suffering and slaughter some ‘lesson’ we’re supposed to learn? How is the untold suffering – most of which happens unobserved by humans – the best possible way to teach whatever lesson is intended?

    Impotent or evil. It’s much easier to cope with “fictional”.

  119. @Saggy

    Another absolutely astounding article by Guyenot. What he is writing is (for the most part) perfectly obvious just from reading the Bible, but no one seems to have noticed for 2000 years !

    Yes. BG, Before Guyenot, all the average Joe had to rely on was the Bible itself, including the New Testament, every single letter and word in it written by a Catholic to other Catholics in all already existing Catholic Church (one criteria for inclusion in the canon is whether or not it had been read at Mass) and the deluded dolts, such as Saint Matthew, Saint John, Saint Paul, Saint Prosper of Aquitaine, Saint Fulgence of Ruspe, Saint Peter, Saint Gregory of Tours, Saint Sophronius of Jerusalem, Saint Andrew of Crete, Saint Leontius of Byzantium , Saint Gregory of Tours, Pope Saint Gregory the great,Saint John Damascene, Pope Saint Leo, Saint Augustine, Saint Thomas Aquinas, etc etc etc,

    Not one of these great and learned men would have tolerated the nonsense of Mr, Guyneot for more than two seconds before calling him Satan and turning away from him and shaking the dust from their feet.

    • Replies: @Saggy
    , @Rurik
    , @Fox
  120. @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    Here is likely why Christians live in “psychic trauma”–because most Christians do religion, the glove, not Jesus Christ, the hand. Christ, not religion!

    And to all the atheists on here glorifying in this new knowledge that God is evil or whatever, and that Christ is really Satan or whatever…ever hear of the Process Church of the Final Judgement? Founded by DeGrimstone a follower of Anton LeVay and the Church of Satan….enough said. But your beliefs are between you and “Yahweh”.

  121. @Laurent Guyénot

    Are you drunk?

    There are over 300 prophecies concerning the messiah in the Old Testament, and Jesus fulfilled every single one of them.

    I am kind enough to feel embarrassed for you and you are way out of your depth

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  122. @gay troll

    It is no wonder that Christians are constant hypocrites.

    To be a hypocrite one must have standards

    • Agree: utu
  123. RT says:
    @Assad al-islam

    Elohim is a plural form in Hebrew. Eloh-im.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  124. Saggy says: • Website
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    Not one of these great and learned men would have tolerated the nonsense of Mr, Guyneot for more than two seconds before calling him Satan and turning away from him and shaking the dust from their feet.

    Not likely, more likely they would have in good Catholic tradition burned him at the stake.

  125. Cynthia says:

    This Article expresses my thoughts and questiosn regarrdng judaism Chosen people by whom? according to whom? PROVEN by whom? how? How cn they be Gods chosen people and yet they are so EVIL..a profound satanic paradox? The original Bible pre/jewish DID NOT include such MYTHS of chosen people, proimised land and certainly NOT the greater Israel MYTH..there wa no Israel before 1948, Palestiniasn had been in their lands since prehistorical times..Jews keep saying thatn hey alone are the chosen people and WE the goyim are their slaves, to obey their divine RULES..The Balfour declaration is NOT teh will of God is the will of the Anglojewish cabal. History is teh will of God and jews lost their “kingdoms” 3Kyrs ago…so stop whining about it, get over it..It is UNBELIVABLE unconceivable that the USA will allow Members of CONGRESS, state, city offcials, govt authorities hold dual ciizenship with Israel, active members of MOssad openly, and express, ACT to further the interests of ISRAEL against the USA Repubic…how can they (jews) take an OATH to the USA Constitution and openly carry out TREASON..spying, govt malfeasence, fraud, cheat, steal atomic, military secrets, KILL americans military and get away with it with outright INPUNITY…

  126. @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    There are over 300 prophecies concerning the messiah in the Old Testament

    Concerning the Messiah, perhaps. But concering the crucified Jesus, I don’t know of any, and neither do the Jews: if God wanted them to “recognize Jesus as the Messiah”, he should have been clearer. In my view, the Temple priests were perfectly loyal to Yahweh when they had Jesus crucified. Christians are unfair to them!
    And, no, I neither drink nor smoke.

  127. @Kratoklastes

    “Choosing the fictional perfect being furnishes a crutch by which ‘believers’ attempt to cope with reality”

    I’m okay with that. Every time I hear from an atheist, I get the feeling my “delusion” makes them vaguely angry. Why should my sense of peace annoy you?

    Is it because they see it as Santa Claus to a six-year-old, it isn’t real? But what is “real”? I’m reminded of the scene in The Godfather when Kay tells “naive” Michael that senators don’t have people killed, and he responds “Who’s being naive now, Kay?”

    So many people construct arcane labyrinths as a substitute for traditional religious structures and beliefs, but all this hyperbolic effort never seems to make them 2¢ happier. Maybe it’s just me being lazy, but I’ll surrender to Christ. Why not?

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  128. lysias says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    I have read that Augustine finally overcame his doubts and converted to Christianity when Ambrose persuaded him that the problematic passages in the Old Testament could and should be interpreted allegorically.

  129. @u

    Did you learn all that in your madrassa? They could also have thaught you a bit more of logic and critical thinking. In this case you would see, that it’s possible to discuss critically and reasonably the history of Christianity.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @u
  130. @Observator

    Jesus was a fundamentalist Jewish nationalist. He stated specifically that he had come to fulfill the law, not to replace it, and that his mission was only for “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The idea that he came for all mankind was invented decades after his death by people who had never met him and knew of him only through hearssay.

    You’re an idiot and a liar.

    Jesus literally commands his followers to “make disciples of all nations.”

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28%3A19-20&version=NIV

    Jesus also blesses the Roman gentile centurion and tells him and his disciples that many non-Jews will be welcomed into Heaven even as many bad Jews are banished from it:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+8%3A+5-13&version=NABRE

    And Jesus also meets and blesses the Samaritan woman and the Caanaite woman, neither of them are Jews.

    Seriously. I know you anti-Christian bigots try to sew doubt, but you can at least not be so blatantly forked-tongue when you do it, liar.

  131. anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    a cosmic construct of perfection and light

    Very inspirational… well, actually no.

    What is so perfect about an old man? Isn’t that what your pagan “Father” is?

    I don’t know, perhaps it was the deceit which got to Wood Stove? You are still in a state of hallucination.

  132. Wally says:
    @450.org

    said:
    “It appears Trump & Pompeo ordered this guy’s death and Israel is providing cover by saying there doesn’t seem to be any foul play involved.”

    – IOW, you have no proof.

    from NYT article:
    “Mr. Du also compared the demonization of China over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic to the historic mistreatment of Jews.”

    – There is no proof for the utterly debunked “historic mistreatment of Jews”.

  133. @SolontoCroesus

    the more I learn about Augustine, the less impressive he is

    Augustine is one of those charlatans whose main claim to fame was that he quite calculatingly and cynically #fakeNews’d a ‘Saul on the road to Damascus‘ version of his own ‘conversion’. He just made up a bunch of bullshit in his account of his pre-‘conversion’ life, painting himself as a libertine in order to make the ‘conversion’ more dramatic. A Saul/Paul fan, writing fanfic – just as Saul/Paul wrote fanfic about the fictional composite ManGod (who Saul/Paul only ever encountered during a hallucination).

    Augustine’s not as much of a bullshitter as Eusebius, but that’s a low bar.

  134. Akouo says:

    Wow, BIG article! The ‘jew’ are NOT the Hebrews of the Bible though, they come from the Black sea area and were converts to a version of the pharisees practices but they are unconnected to the “Holy Land” until they moved there after the war. They don’t really recognise the old testament which they call torah, they use the talmud and zohar which were written in europe in the middle ages. It’s irrelevant what they think of yahweh etc as the ‘deal’ you mention ended in AD70 with the total annihilation of every living Hebrew who hadn’t accepted Christ and moved away from the Middle East. At that time, the ‘jews’ were still called scythians and possibly khazzars but hadn’t yet started calling themslves ‘jews’. Don’t be taken in just because they bought a few printing presses and turned the word judhite into ‘jew’, it’s just a con trick, they never set foot in the Levant!

  135. Saggy says: • Website
    @u

    I could find more direct references to hell by Jesus if you would like.

    I think it would be worthwhile. I’m collecting quotes, and I have an annotated nrsv pdf version, but searching for hell gets 3000+ hits on Hellenistic … so it’s not helpful.

    Biblehub to the rescue …. https://biblehub.com/topical/h/hell.htm, 53 occurrences !

  136. @Laurent Guyénot

    Howdy,

    There is chapter of the OLD (before the NEW arrived) of the suffering Messiah/Jesus;

    There is a Psalm that declared EXACTLY what JESUS would be speaking
    while dying on Thee Cross
    FOR YOUR SINS………………

    HEBREWS ARE CRUCIFIERS BY NOT REPENTING BEFORE
    THEE SAVIOUR (True Messiah………….)
    JESUS CHRIST………….

    From Thee Wrath Of GOD’S Perspective,
    THEY, as a people, have deserved their sufferings………….

    They were chosen to let the world know a Messiah was coming;
    and when He arrived,
    They put Him to death………….

    The Alpha and Omega of Holy Bible Is About The Messiah///\\\Jesus Christ;
    Him Who Is King Of Kings………….

    AYE………….

  137. anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pater

    I do see this specific mention of Abrahamism here, as some “pestilence” on mankind.

    But, why specifically only Abrahamism? Does that mean you and Guyenot here (and other anti-Abrahamists) think that such batshit extreme pagan faiths like Hindooism are acceptable, as a soul soothing balm upon civilisation? If yes, do you morons even see the satanic-isms out there, masquerading as faiths, supposedly with a comprehension of God?!

    Anyway, since there is absolutely no proof that atheism (or heck, hindooism, if you wish) would have ensured complete peace on earth, meaning mankind would definitely have found other reasons to rip each other to pieces, this “Abrahamism/Religion is a plague upon civilisation,” simply seems like dissembling by atheists to feel good about their hollow godless, ultimately meaningless, lives.

    It feels like they subliminally agonise over their inferiority complex about not having the same sense of worldly purpose, which theists seem to have.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
    , @Pater
  138. @Phil the Fluter

    I think the Old Testament should be called “The Book of Genocide” and not be considered part of the Christian bible.

    The Old Nonsense is stupid, primitive, racist trash – as might be expected from a Bronze Age tribal genital-mutilation cult – but without it the equally-stupid New Nonsense has no grundnorm.

    The (fictional) ‘saviour’ in the Pauline fanfic relies – critically – on the Old Nonsense (especially Isaiah) as its theological preface. The cartoon ManGod in the New Nonsense is specifically meant to be the fulfilment of prophecies contained in the Old Nonsense; in one episode he makes it clear that he envisions continuity between Old Nonsense and New Nonsense –

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    So… the following ‘jots and tittles’ are stuff that cartoon GodMan thinks are to be retained until further notice:

     • stone people to death for picking up sticks on Saturday (Numbers 15:32-36).
     • kill – then defame – your children if they’re disobedient (Deuteronomy 21:18-21).
     • kill people who trim their sideburns (Leviticus 19:27).
     • sell your daughter into sex slavery (Exodus 21:7-11).

    That last dot-point is a bit of a trick… you’re not obliged to sell her, but you can if you feel like. Those other things though? If you don’t do those, Jeebus is down with you getting the penalty for people who fail to uphold the Law (spoiler alert: the penalty’s death).
    .

    If the Old Nonsense is rejected, then the whole ‘saviour’ arc in the New Nonsense is also rejected – the events of ~30AD have no context: it just becomes the story of some mentally-ill dude in 1st century Palestine, wandering around telling everyone pointless convoluted stories (and killing fig trees just to be an asshole like his supposed DadGod).

    Both the Old and New Nonsense is what you get when a bunch of ignorant primitives try and invent their own foundation story: it makes no sense; its cosmogony gets critical things horribly wrong; it overstates the importance of the ignorant primitives in any historical context.

    Plus, half the time the guys writing shit down betray a complete ignorance of key events (and key canonical stuff – like, you know, the Ten Commandments).

  139. Agent76 says:
    @450.org

    Here is some insight and I was not raised in religion both my parents were devout atheist.

    (Sermon Clip) Your Life is Like A Vapour by Leonard Ravenhill

    This journey of faith weaves through the current state of evangelical Christianity and the passionate preaching of many godly ministers in our day.

  140. “Ok rabbi.’

    i am just restating what the author cites as example of the contract — and it clearly states the conditions and Israel has violated those condition more than once and therefore —

    the subsequent analysis about Israel is more than a tad off.

    t’s right there in black and white.

    As is the story of Satan tempting Christ. Those conditions offered by Satan are clear but the reward is simply no match for that of God

    I would add, Christ knows full well that Satan is a liar and his word is wholly untrustworthy. There are some other hurdles here — but looking at what is presented as presented —

    the issue is clear.

    Belief in Go not required to address the matter.

  141. @Assad al-islam

    More specifically, the Jews and Muslim’s Gods (Eloh and Ilah) has its roots in the Canaanite God, El.

    p.s. The ancient “Hebrew” language and script/alphabet was nothing but Canaanite.

    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
  142. Robjil says:
    @u

    In ancient Egypt, the “hell” was non-existence for bad behavior in life. Punishment for bad behavior is a common belief in most religions. It is something that we should bring back since bad behavior is so common in our governments in past hundred years since 12.23.1913.

    https://www.ancient.eu/article/42/the-egyptian-afterlife–the-feather-of-truth/

    <Should the heart prove heavier, however, it was thrown to the floor of the Hall of Truth where it was devoured by Amenti (also known as Amut), a god with the face of a crocodile, the front of a leopard and the back of a rhinoceros, known as "the gobbler". Once Amenti devoured the person's heart, the individual soul then ceased to exist. There was no `hell' for the ancient Egyptians; their `fate worse than death' was non-existence.

  143. @DaveE

    I’d say, more likely, the Jews borrowed (stole) some of the more palatable teachings of Christ (which were, in turn, Buddhist teachings) to use as window dressing for their vile, demonic codified Judaism in the form of the Talmud.

    The only word I would change (or caveat) is ‘Buddhist’; it’s more likely that they were Athenian. The core of the non-Jewish bits of the Synoptic gospels are a mishmash of Cynic, Stoic, and Epicurean ethics.

    That fits reasonably well with the bit of the (fictional) background story in which (fictional) GodMan goes to boarding school in Egypt – obviously to Egyptian Hogwarts, since the Talmud refers to him as a sorcerer/arch-magician (Sanhedrin 43a) who brings spells back from Egypt incised into his flesh (Shabbat 104b:5 – which includes a classy etymology of ‘ben Stada‘ that ends up being a Hebrew ‘Yo Mama a Ho, Jeebus!’).

    Now obviously all of that’s ex post facto nonsense, written centuries after the fictional events.

    Still, Egypt was closer than Buddha-land, and the library of Alexandria had a gigantic repository of the works of the real Sages (i.e., the Athenian Sages).

    Imagine some smart kid who had been schooled in Egypt, coming back to sandy-primitive-shithole-Land and laying down some Zeno.

    (It goes without saying that I’ve ignored anything written by Saul/Paul. That can be discounted as bearing any resemblance to what fictional GodMan ever said or did, except by accident)

  144. Saggy says: • Website
    @Milton

    The author of this piece makes the mistake of conflating genuine Judaism with Zionism.

    Genuine Judaism as defined by the Torah is Zionism …. they are one and the same ….

    Genesis 15:18
    On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:

    Deuteronomy 7:
    1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are aboutto enter and occupy, and he clears away many nations before you — the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations mightier and more numerous than you — 2 and when the LORD your God gives them over to you and you defeat them, then you must utterly destroy them. Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, 4 for that would turn away your children from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the LORD would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly. 5 But this is how you must deal with them: break down their altars, smash their pillars, hew down their sacred poles, and burn their idols with fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

    14 You shall be the most blessed of peoples, with neither sterility nor barrenness among you or your livestock. 15 The LORD will turn away from you every illness; all the dread diseases of Egypt that you experienced, he will not inflict on you, but he will lay them on all who hate you. 16 You shall devour all the peoples that the LORD your God is giving over to you, showing them no pity; you shall not serve their gods, for that would be a snare to you.

    Deuteronomy 13:
    15 You shall put the inhabitants of that town to the sword, utterly destroying it and everything in it — even putting its livestock to the sword.

    Deuteronomy 20:
    16 As for the towns of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. 17 You shall annihilate them — the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites — just as the LORD your God has commanded,

  145. “Christians have never come to the realization that the Mosaic covenant is nothing but a program for world domination by the Jewish nation. That is because it is written right under their nose, in a book whose malice they cannot recognize because they have been told it is the Word of God. It takes a free-thinker like H. G. Wells to see the biblical idea of the Chosen People for what it is: “a conspiracy against the rest of the world.” In the books of the Bible, “you have the conspiracy plain and clear, […] an aggressive and vindictive conspiracy. […] It is not tolerance but stupidity to shut our eyes to their quality.”

    You may think that, some christians may think that and certainly lots of Jews think that. However, that is not what Mosaic law indicates.

    First to the notion of subjugation — already moot because israel has not obeyed Go

    2. Th passages referenced only indicate tat Israel could have been at least on par with other nation’s holding her own. That does not by definition grant some manner of pre-emminent geopolitical identity — but as i note, Israel has violated the agreement the contract is a tad in tatters.

    And until Israel enters into the agreement by repentance and returning to obedience — and more importantly, in relation with Christ — her value is as one in need of support from believers and as we see,

    the geopolitical dependence of others.

    I think what many Christians lose sigh of that there not a single scripture, or apostle that demands christians provide support for the Israeli state. For Jews as a matter of fulfilling scripture, I think there is a case. For supporting the defense of jews, I think there is a case, but carte blanche whatever they do and say — is not part of any bargain called for by any leader including Christ —

    And none that reasoning requires believing in Christ — it’s simply addressing the nature of the relations as described in bot the new and old testament.

    • Replies: @Vaterland
  146. vot tak says:

    “The finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that he does not exist,” wrote Charles Baudelaire (Paris Spleen). He was wrong: the devil’s finest trick is to persuade you that he is God.”

    The modern psywar specialists definitely want to keep alive the superstitions purveyed by their predecessors.

  147. karel says:

    @Laurent Guyénot
    Great revelations. I am intrigued by your reference to a volcano being an essence of Moloch/Yahveh cult. Any volcano would be rather useful for throwing children into its crater or secondary vents whenever there was an eruption or shortly afterwards as wood has always been a scarce commodity in the arid Middle east. Are there any recently extinct or inactive volcanos, which would fit this role of a child sacrifice? Their location could point out where such bizzare ideas of this strange tribe originated.

    • Replies: @Pater
    , @Laurent Guyénot
  148. @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    At an individual level, people should be free to believe whatever they like. That’s not how things go when the religious get in charge. Militant atheists see it as a valid thing to try to prevent religious re-capture of social power in the West.

    Atheists are acutely aware of what happens when
     ① one set of objectively-dumb ideas gets power in society; and
     ② their canonical literature tells them to set unbelievers on fire.

    Now ① is always the aim of the 3 Avramic grifts (i.e., it’s the main objectives of the lead grifters).

    In the last 3 centuries ② has been softened to “deny them important social rights” – at least in the West.

    That persists to this day in some states in the US, with laws on the books banning atheists from holding office, serving on juries – and sometimes, being a witness in a court proceeding.

    These laws have not been repealed despite being found unconstitutional almost 60 years ago (in Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 [1961]). They have actually been used to attempt to deny positions to people (e.g., the Bothwell case in Asheville, NC in 2009)

    The states in question (there may have been some repeals since I made this list):
     • Maryland
     • Arkansas
     • Mississippi
     • North Carolina
     • South Carolina
     • Tennessee
     • Texas.

    MD surprises me a little; the rest is Good Ol’ Boys hyuk hyuk and Stupid Big Hats hyuk hyuk.

    Now obviously being denied the right to be a witness in a legal proceeding is not the same level of thing as what atheists face in US major ally Saudi Arabia, but frankly any atheist who understood the risks would attempt to vocally undermine the Avram cults wherever they’re found – in case they tried to get back in charge again.

    This is why atheists still get militant. The battle is largely won elsewhere in the West – organised religion is dying rapidly, and ‘No belief’ is becoming a significant force. In the US there are enough primitives and enough firepower for the issue still to be ‘live’.

    One thing is clear: once ‘No belief’ reaches absolute majority (which will happen in our lifetimes) we won’t be trying to set religious people on fire, or behead them, or deny them social rights.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Ilya G Poimandres
  149. @Laurent Guyénot

    Working on a coherent response.
    Thanks for noticing the query.

  150. ivan says:
    @brabantian

    The ancient Hebrews had a better set id story- tellers and scribes than others. Stories such as the Exodus and Creation had better myth-making characteristics than that of the others. It should not surprise anyone that Jewish stories become the founding myths of other peoples.

  151. ivan says:
    @Anon

    Its interesting that we remain forever stuck within the confines of a mental world derived from the Bible no matter which part of the debating spectrum we belong.

  152. anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:
    @UncommonGround

    Did you learn all that in your madrassa?

    Lol! Every time you cursed Islamophobes play your dirty little game of vilifying Islam, there will be somebody who will come along and hold the mirror of pagan godlessness to you. Y’all are spiritual paupers, and as you exult in your racial “superiority,” it is always fulfilling to point that out.

    Remember, no true muslim could possibly even imagine of uttering such bile about the Christ PBUH, that that godless scum puked out.

    You pagan godless think that you can one-up on Islam by portraying muslims as haters of such a holy and blessed man as Christ? That is simply not true, and nothing you can say, can make it true.

    We are true monotheists, and we are the true lovers of Christ, and every prophet before him, and after him… and they of us, who follow them in letter and spirit.

    This is a theological struggle between the brotherly (you deserve each other 😉 ) Juden and Christian pagan faiths. Keep it within the family. We are above such pagan bickering.

    I am here only for the amusement, and of course to frequently point out the pagan pestilences which infect your “haloed” lands.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  153. What if everything has always existed and always will and we humans are just passing in time on this planet. That time doesn’t exist, but we define ourselves with it because that’s all we can comprehend.

    Religions are always defective because they don’t go far enough. Alpha/Omega? Sure. Big Bang?
    I doubt it.

    A universe that knows no time will never end.

    And we are here just as a bump.

  154. anon[211] • Disclaimer says:

    By reading this (excellent) article, I felt by parts like reading Douglas Reed or Roger Dommergue.

    • Replies: @Dube
    , @Laurent Guyénot
  155. anon[211] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    once ‘No belief’ reaches absolute majority (which will happen in our lifetimes) we won’t be trying to set religious people on fire, or behead them, or deny them social rights.

    That is certainly what you genuinely think, but the fact is that in secular western Europe, religious people are now treated like shit, for the real or supposed sins of religious people of ancient times.

    Anyway, thinking that suppressing religious belief leads to a better society and better behaviours is at best delusional.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  156. gay troll says:

    There are few books better than “The Age of Reason” by Thomas Paine, it dismantles both Old and New testaments succinctly while still expressing faith in God.

    • Troll: Seraphim
    • Replies: @bjondo
  157. Seraphim says:
    @Mr. Hack

    But that’s what I did in most of my 3,358 comments so far. Even when I was talking about Ukraine. I do not try to ‘convince’ people that I am right and they wrong. It is an almost insurmountable task with people convinced that they have discovered the ‘true’ truth. My idea is to induce them to check for themselves and undertake the same study I did, especially in matters so grave as our faith. I am satisfied that a few did and rewarded me expressing their gratitude. I had the chance to put in my own words what I had accumulated in years of studies in other places and at other level (under my own name).

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @gay troll
  158. Pater says:
    @anonymous

    What the Hindus believe or don’t believe in their own civilizational space (India) should be none of our concern. The universalism of Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Marxism, Islam, SJWism, Wokeism, Judaism, Feminism) works to destroy a people’s ancestral & cultural identity, weakening their ties to their history and homeland. The Abrahamic worldview facilitates demographic replacement.

  159. ivan says:
    @Daniel Rich

    Complete BS from ‘Cohen’

  160. Rurik says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    Not one of these great and learned men would have tolerated the nonsense of Mr, Guyneot for more than two seconds

    why not edify us with one word that Mr, Guyneot has written that is in error?

    His theme, that the Old Testament is the reason the Jews are a plague upon this planet, and have been since that screed, straight out of the primordial slime, (which makes your typical crocodile seem like Mother Theresa by comparison), is why these people are so anathema to decency, seems very well considered, and indeed, spot on, if you ask me.

    How else are people supposed to act, when their god is such a genocidal, bloodthirsty asshole?

    Worship that? It’d be like worshiping maggot infested pig carcass, rotting in the mud.

    I’ve said it often, Jews are not flawed because of their genes, they’re flawed because of their psychopathic worship of deceit, inequity and murder.

    Even the Swedes or Eskimos would be assholes if you raised them to believe that supremacist horseshit.

    A great article, than you.

    BTW, I tend to agree with some others that I doubt their psychopathy is caused by circumcision. A questionable practice I’ll grant, but I doubt it turned an otherwise pleasant and honest and decent man, into a Netanyahu, just due to the trauma. In order to create a Netanyahu, you have to inject the moral putrescence into his soul during his entire childhood and beyond. By the time he’s an adult, he’s ready to lie to you, steal your possessions, murder your family, and then call himself the victim. And demand restitution. That is a Jew’s Jew, and you don’t create one of those with one single act of infant cruelty.

    • Replies: @Bert
  161. Druid says:
    @paranoid goy

    They share your murder directly and indirectly of approximately one hundred million deaths around the world. Look it up, you effin hypocrite. If you cant grt pass grade school, maybe you should stay out of intelligent conversation

  162. Vaterland says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    “Christianity is the revenge of the wandering Jew »

    Yes and no. – It’s this Nietzsche-Gibbon idea, where (((St. Saul))) was a nefarious Jew master of mass propaganda who found a way to destroy the Roman Empire from within and then plotted over decades. An ancient Emanuel Cellar so to speak. – But the USA, especially in its empire form, undoubtedly is.

    It was the United States, from its Freemason beginnings and “Christian” Zionist rise, which finally gave the son of Kohanim Wesley Clarkenstein total military control over Europe and Jewish bankers rule over the world. From the very beginning it had been the promised land of International Jewry, even more so than the British Empire.

    Now Christianity had replaced the tribal blood and soil holy land of “pagan”, ancestor worshiping Europe with Jerusalem and Palestine – not the Israel as the Jewish state! – yet the social element of the divine is preserved through the commune of the Saints and the Catholic Church is built on the crypts of Germanic and Celtic gods and our older traditions. A source of disdain and accusations of idolatrous heresy for re-Judaized protestants. It was undoubtedly this Anglo-Protestant mercantile USA which has molded our societies and cultures in the interests, needs, goals and will to power of the Jewish “people”, an ancient race-cult more so than a religion. The primary cause for the slow mass killing of our nations. Not even the Soviet Union had achieved this with all of its tyrannical might.

    Christianity though actually didn’t do this. Again, very complex theological problem, but there is options for both possibilities: that corrupted Christians, which are already on a heretical path, can be manipulated into becoming slaves and golems to Jewish supremacists – Murica and a lot of its evangelical Zionists, but also the Catholic Church under the current Crypto-Jew Jesuit Francis – and on the other hand Christendom is the anti-thesis and negation of everything that Judaism and especially Jewishness stand for. There is a reason why Jesus Christ is the most hated name among the Jews, why these sons of the Pharisees have him boiling in excrement, and why the resurrection of Christ was also seen in medieval Christian folklore as the defeat of “the Jews”, or the descendant followers of the Pharisees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2UBQArOa5c

    “The law has failed us, divine grace is needed.” is the beginning of the New Testament. Rabbinical legalism and worldliness replaced with transcendentalism, the school of Athens and moral universalism. In this regard the Old Testament is kept (as a negative example) and fulfilled at the same time, with love triumphant over death, grace over revenge, wisdom over intellectualism, compassion over tribalism, acceptance of the remorseful sinner over legalistic revenge and so on.

    And we are opening another can of worms when we consider how God has kept his promise to Israel and made it a light onto the nations and at the same time abolished it by passing on its chosenness to humanity as a whole as an act of grace and love to all those who let Jesus into their heart. To equate the God who gave his most beloved son to save humanity with a genocidal psychopath and the messianic vision of Rabbinical Judaism to enslave humanity with Jews as the chosen master race is quite the stretch. And it gets even more clear when we consider that Christians chose agape and Jews chose Sabbatai Zevi and Jacob Frank with consequences into our day and age of Epstein, Mossad assasinations, Anton Szandor Lavey and the Church or rather Synagogue of Satan, Netanyahu, Kushner, Trump and Likud, finally the Rebbe, Chabad Lubavitch and this World order of unchallenged power of the indestructible Jews. Whether its Tikkun Olam delusions or outright racial-tribal supremacy with a God-race complex. Judaism and Christianity are in reality even further apart than Christianity and Islam which has a place for Īsā ibn Maryam in heaven.

    But all theological disputes aside: Christian medieval Europe is for many, many actual right-wingers a source of lived authenticity and romantic nostalgia, while it is a source of hatred and dread for many Jews. Yet in a way the infamous author of “You Gentiles” was also correct in so far as that Christianity had erected a contradiction in the European soul, because the traditions and racial tenants of a fundamentally alien and different people, the Jews, had become part of the European greater psyche which contradicted its own. More important than just muh old testament. Yet our own Jungian psycho-racial archetypes remained intact – unlike today! – and they formed the reality of Germanized Christendom. And this in particular is nothing but a source for disdain, fear and hatred for these Tikkun Olam Jews which make up the bulk of the elite of our neo-liberal order. Josef Joffe, the then NYC Jew editor in chief of Die Zeit, had called the Pegida demonstrators with good racial instinct “Heidenchristen”, Pagan-Christians (with the Iron Cross).

    Christendom is the synthetic aspect of the European psyche, not its essentialist one. Johann Sebastian Bach is the fifth evangelist, but undoubtedly German. To retake our homelands we must first reconquer ourselves. Of course it will be messy like every war. Yet Nietzschean or Nazi types are, of course, also not the ideal answer because they too are part of the Judaization of the European soul and mind. And denial of the after-life and transcendental other-world and embrace of racial materialism, will to power and racial sense of master class/race is not a hot novelty take or brave triumphant intellect, but just J u d a i s m. – Although I do prefer us as a chosen Aryan race descendant from Atlantis and ourselves a cosmic light unto the nations than this rock bottom that we are now, as a plaything for the hostile elite. — In a way this was also the genius of the Nazis to take Judaism and turn it against the hostile Jews which were and are out to eradicate us, to blot out Amalek. That is why some equate Hitler with Christ. A giant blasphemy of course, but a nice meme.

    Do er den tlevel do geschande,
    daz nie kaiser bal gestreit,
    do fuor er her wider ze lande:
    do huop sich der juden leit,
    daz er herre ir huote brach,
    und daz man in sit lebendic sach,
    den ir hant sluoc unde stach.

    After he had shamed the devil
    which no emperor could have done better
    he then returned to the world:
    Then arose the Jews suffering
    that he the Lord broke their seals
    and that he was seen alive among man,
    he whom their hands had struck and stabbed.

    There is no learned helplessness here, Monsieur. The mystery of the resurrection, the witness of the living Christ is the undoing of the tyranny of the Pharisees and Rabbinical Judaism and their world order. Christ not Moshiak!

    Regards,
    – Edom and Amalek
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/op-ed-calls-on-israel-to-nuke-germany-iran/

    • Agree: Seraphim
    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @ivan
  163. Vaterland says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Really tired of these centuries old leftist platitudes. And every “me an intellectual” fedora who repeats them feels oh so extremely enlightened in doing so. Almost on the level of out of context quoting Schopenhauer on national pride…

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  164. Druid says:
    @Milton

    It’s all the same!

  165. Mr. Hack says:

    Since you’ve not pinpointed anything within this thread that you have an issue with, there’s absolutely no reason for Guyenot, or anybody else for that matter, to check anything out. The author has probably made a lot of valid points and backs up a lot of his ideas up with source citations. Why would he waste his time with a comment like yours and try to decipher any areas where his interpretation might be wrong? I only bring this up because I’m familiar with the breadth of your knowledge and know that you probably have areas of disagreement with this essay and could challenge him somewhere, and it would probably be an interesting back and forth. You might be a strong Orthodox Christian apologist, however so far…

  166. Pater says:
    @karel

    A few plausible candidates
    https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/saudi-
    arabia.html

    • Replies: @karel
  167. Vaterland says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    I think what many Christians lose sigh of that there not a single scripture, or apostle that demands christians provide support for the Israeli state.

    On the contrary. There is a strong theological case to be made that it is the ultimate heresy to aid the executioners of Christ who exist, as they are, because they have rejected Christ and live in opposition to Christianity. But since Jews are masters of lies and the evangelical Zionists who aid them are insane criminals and heretics who want to bring about the end of days in violation of theology, this sad affair is not surprising. And what to expect of these false Christians who have made an idol of Auschwitz and replaced the suffering and crucifixion of the messiah with that of the six million, already a kabbalah number, Jews?

    It is a testimony to the fact that under Pax Americana the archenemies of Christendom rule over it. And their unchallenged power make priests and even imams bow their heads and fall on their knees. Just like Angela Merkel of the B’nai B’rith forced Joseph Ratzinger, as then Pope, to take a stand against anti-Semitism and bow his head before the Holocaust in shame. We used to have kings graced in their power by God. Now we have traitors graced in their power by the Holocaust and support of international Jewry.

    This is what rock bottom of European history looks like.

  168. Rurik says:
    @Vaterland

    “…Christianity had erected a contradiction in the European soul, because the traditions and racial tenants of a fundamentally alien and different people, the Jews, had become part of the European greater psyche which contradicted its own.”

    I’m starting to think that Christianity was a parasitic mind-ruse on Europe, which insidiously destroyed the honor and virtue of Rome’s vigor and Gods and Goddesses of wisdom, lust and power. By replacing it with a ‘get on your knees sinner, and repent your existence while praying to the holy Jew as your new god.’

    Something like that. I’m working on it, but something happened to Rome, that left Europe in a thousand years of darkness, under the total domination of the priestly class.

    Where all knowledge and history and artifacts, that didn’t comport to their power and their narrative, were destroyed for ever.

    • Agree: Pater
    • Replies: @Vaterland
    , @gay troll
  169. bjondo says:
    @gay troll

    Paine “dismantling” the Christian Bible
    means Paine does not understand
    the Christian Bible nor does Paine
    understand the purpose of religion.

    5 dancing shlomos

    • Replies: @gay troll
  170. Voatboy says:
    @Nick Kollerstrom

    To the main author: thanks for the edifying article. To Nick Kollerstrom: if you are the same Nick Kollerstrom who wrote _Astrochemistry_ and _Study of Metal-Planet Affinities_, then I look forward to your further chemistry publications.

  171. Fox says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    Guyenot has a few predecessors in assessing the god (or gods) of the Bible -the Old Testament and the New Testament. E.g., Der Falsche Gott by Theodor Fritsch (1921), which, as far as I know has not been translated into English.

  172. Dube says:
    @anon

    By reading this (excellent) article, I felt by parts like reading Douglas Reed or Roger Dommergue.

    I was about to post my surprise at having worked through all these comments without seeing mention of Douglas Reed, whose Controversy of Zion I read upon recommendations elsewhere here at Unz. I’ve read it only once and I’m not about to search it tonight. So I may be inaccurate, but he posits an ancient disagreement in the tradition resulting in two versions of God (to put it in everyday terms), one of which is represented by Jesus.

    I’ll have to check out Roger Dommergue when I get the chance.

    I’ll put in a teaser and say that I am interested in the Order of Melchizedek. (Who?) This Order is said to be forever and precedes the controversy of Zion — indeed, is independent of it.

  173. u says:
    @Seraphim

    Can you be more specific?

  174. Seraphim says:

    Tovarishch Riurik, is still the ‘Bezbozhnik’ available? Under new names like ‘Desionizatsiya’, or is it ‘Rodnoverie’? Or is ‘Raskreshchenie’? Indeed we live in Carnival times.

  175. Vaterland says:

    Ultimately Guyénots challenge does not go far enough. It is not: why did the European Christians not excrete the Old Testament? But why did they tolerate the Jews among themselves and even implemented Sicut Judaeis, which turned them into a de facto protected class. One explanation is, I think Luther also used it, that Jews were seen as the living embodiment of how not to be and to act. That God had made them out as a sign for the Christians and they would remain marked in their shame until the end of days when they should be judged. Forced to wear visible signs for their branding of Judas: Judenhut, maybe the yellow star under the 3rd Reich and so on. In some cases the Old Testament was seen in just the same way. I certainly saw it that way.

    One negative case for tolerating the Jews is that it was corrupt aristocrats who used the Jews to get around the Christian, or already Aristotelian, ban on usury. A misrepresentation is that salvation was seen as coming from the Jews, a trick by the Jews to fool gullible Christians who don’t understand their own religion. The Europhile answer though is simply: grace. We are not the race-cult who has to blot out Amalek. Our greatness is in our agape , it is in our mercy. We do not scheme like Esther, we walk in the light. And we do not make up fake genocides to justify those of our own. From Purim to the big H. And if we became like them, we would lose ourselves. And there can be hypocrisy in this too and I think The Merchant of Venice had done a nice job in exploring the dynamics between Jews and Christians.

    Although today, in the light of Bronstein, Epstein, Weinstein, Jason Greenblatt, Barbara Lerner Spectre, Paul Singer, the Rothschilds and so many others, The Merchant of Venice still seems far too lenient on Jewishness. And my country, whether we talk about the Holy Roman Empire, Prussia or the 2nd Reich, was one of the most enlightened, open and tolerant towards the Jews. Contrary to their blood libel Anti-Semitism was far from a core tenet of the German racial soul. And what did this emancipation and toleration and concession towards the Jewish people and their bankers get us…? Total annihilation and enslavement is the answer.

    The case for Shylock was that he was a human being like all others, nourished by the same sun and so on, while the actual believe system of Rabbinical Judaism is founded on the core tenet that they, the Jews, are exactly not like all others, but the divinely chosen master race and gentiles are actually subhuman, 3/4 of a soul. At best! Lower than animals so to speak; born slaves; donkeys for the effendi Jew. And some act accordingly. Fortunately some others do not. And when you observe someone like Gerard Menuhin you can appreciate the fact that it is truly the Jewish religion and its secular heritage that leads to this behavior, not racial determinism – which is questionable in case of “the Jewish race” anyway.

    Yet the Zioncapitalist-Communist war on the 3rd Reich will for all of real history set the verdict on the origins of this world order, even if the last one of us is killed. As the 3rd Reich, as Nazism itself is a shining example for all the contradictions in the European human condition. But if there is a European original sin, it is neither Christianity nor the Holocaust, but the fact that we were unable to formulate our own ancestral religion to establish an unbroken continuum of our greater soul expressing itself through a society truly of our own. The last attempt left us with the stump of racial cosmology and Nazism. Martin Luther Pierce, too, very much failed. So did Savitri Devi. For whatever reason we did depend on Christendom and the classical world of Rome and Athens to lead us to greatness, also as a precursor to the Enlightenment. Now today, that the world laughs at all prophets, we are thrown back to poisoned Christendom. And it is dominated by…? The law of the Jews.

  176. u says:
    @UncommonGround

    Be more specific. If you have a specific issue with something that I said then let’s hear it. You can insult me and you can use your big words like “critical thinking” but in the end what you wrote here means nothing, it’s name calling and a bunch of gibberish.

    I don’t worship any God, I thought that you would have figured that out from my original comment. The Muslims are just as bad as Christians with their hell and with their demons and their evil God “Allah”.

    Give me a break, this is Kindergarten righteousness 101.

  177. @Laurent Guyénot

    Thank you for your response, with which I do not disagree.

    But if you do not know or understand this fundamental matter of identity, you cannot understand the dynamic of Christ’s interactions with the Pharisees.

    His habitual sobriquet for them, translated “hypocrites,” runs much deeper. The root of the term pictures an actor wearing a mask in a drama, impersonating someone he is not. And, as Aristotle pointed out, depending on the willing suspension of disbelief for success.

    If you would baptise a goat, the result would not be a new sheep — it would be a wet goat.

    A thorn tree is not a fig tree with bad morals.

    By their fruits shall ye know them.

    • Agree: Laurent Guyénot
  178. Yahweh and Jehovah are Baal, just a few of the many names used by Satan.

    My Bible states the name OF THE MOST HIGH GOD is “I AM THAT I AM”. Check your Strong’s. In Hebrew that is “AHAYAH ASHER AHAYAH”…

    Exodus 3:14

    14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

    Exodus 3:15 affirms this NAME. It shall be HIS NAME forever, a memorial to ALL GENERATIONS!

    15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

    DROPPING THE MIKE…

    The TRUE Hebrew people are the “African Americans”, Tribe of Judah. Mexicans, Tribe of Issachar. North American “Indians”, Tribe of Gad, Haitians, Tribe of Levi. Dominicans, Tribe of Simeon. Puerto Rico, Tribe of Ephraim, just to name a few.

    https://gatheringofchrist.org/

    THE MOST HIGH GOD traces the Hebrew people through “blood line”, through the father. Proof of that is the genealogy verses in the O.T. You don’t see the mothers mentioned, only the FATHERS.

    The Khazar ARE NOT FROM SHEM, but from Gomer, son of Ashkenaz, son of Japheth, their own records state that, along with THE BIBLE. And why do they trace their “Jewishness” through the mother, not the father??? Opposite of how THE MOST HIGH GOD traces it???

    You cannot be a Hebrew, unless you are a blood child, traced through the fathers, all the way back to Shem. That’s why they call themselves “Jewish”… like “Blueish”… not true “Blue” but similar or a shade of “blue”. They are “Jewish” because they adopted the Hebrew religion. AGAIN, this is documented in their own records.

    If I’m of German decent, and I adopt Hinduism as a religion, I do not magically become an Eastern Indian. I cannot change my nationality, by adopting a religion. I cannot become a Hebrew, by adopting Judaism.

    The “jewish” Khazar people were not taken, sold and served as slaves. The Blacks (Judah) were sold and taken from West Africa and sold to the Americas and Europe by means of (drum roll…) SHIPS, as prophesied in

    Deu 28:68:

    68 And the Lord shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.

    So, just how did they wind up in W. Africa??? They fled Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The Hebrews have always fled into Africa to hide and escape prosecution. They went there because they were BLACK, like their cousin Ham. They could blend in and the Romans could not easily find them. It was also Ham and Ishmael that sold them into slavery for the Trans Atlantic Salve trade!!!

    The word “Egypt” was synonymous with “bondage” or “slavery”. (There’s no need to take someone from Israel to Egypt by means of ships. The 2 nations are connected and on the same land mass.)

    Also, the statement “no man shall buy you” is better translated as “no man shall ‘redeem’ you”. As it was a custom, a relative could “redeem” a slave out of bondage by paying the Master a fee or a price.

    Do your research, start with the link posted above, and may THE MOST HIGH GOD AHAYAH ASHER AHAYAH open your eyes.

    Shalawam!

    Screeching Eagle ~Y~

  179. Vaterland says:
    @Rurik

    As you see I’ve gone into this right at the beginning. For a while I dabbled into this thought myself. But there are over 300 theories on the downfall of the Roman Empire and “Christcuckery made the ROMAN BVLL a cuck” is just one of them. There’s lead poisoning, inflation and problems with silver coins, vast over stretch, multi-culturalism, dependency on mercenaries and fifth columns, constant incursions, an overpayment of the useless senate and basically military-industrial complex, the praetorian guard de facto holding the emperor hostage, over taxation, no more social mobility, decadence and rot, an increase in the competitiveness of the so called barbarians surrounding Rome which actually overtook it many aspects. – Lots of parallels with Murica and Edward Gibbon was a Freemason with an axe to grind. Also the Roman Empire DID survive for another thousand years in the so called Byzantine Empire who actually saw themselves and called themselves the Romans. The Eastern Part was also the far more wealthy one. So this common idea that without Christianity we would have been on the moon a millennium early with Divine Rome leading a star Imperium is just a total Warhammer 40k fantasy.

    My own 3 punch theory is that the century of constant soldier Caesars and permanent civil war, the then permanent over payment and dependence on the legions introduced by Caracalla and finally Islamic sea and slave raids which lead to the collapse of the med trade, impoverished the West so much that it transitioned from late antiquity to the early middle ages. But ultimately it “collapsed” unto what it already had been de facto and the central government had become a parasitic, chaotic, distant problem and the real authority was already localized. It became what it was through catastrophe. By contrast the chaos of the short lived Germanic Caesars was nothing in particular out of the ordinary for Rome and many Caesars before found a Mussolini end dragged through the streets, thrown into the Tiber, assassinated, strangled by a slave or a Praetorian and at best exiled.

    Given that Byzantium survived another thousand years, that our Holy Roman Empire lasted longer than the Roman Republic and Empire combined, especially if you count the Karolingian dynasty, and that the European Nations conquered the world under the cross, this Nietzsche idea is not it. Although it’s not as down right mischeavous and dumb as blaming the downfall on “The eternal German”. Byzantium, I think, also found a somewhat harmonious coexistence between (Neo-)Platonism and Orthodox-Christianity.

    I think the answer is not complex: Jews have conquered the USA. They own the media, the publishing industry, dominate education and banking. Today the USA rules all of Europe by proxy through Pax Americana. An atomized, alienated and not educated public can then easily be manipulated into the absurd lie of “Judeo-Christianity”. The Christian Zionism of the USA from the founding fathers to today is of course a distinct problem.

    What route of attack for subversion there is in traditional Christianity, ten times the amount exists in liberalism or Marxism. They can also be seen as “Christian” heresies, but that’s also just a very broad, inaccurate brush. We simply have no intact racio-religious continuum of our own and it is today almost impossible to imagine, even if a genuine new prophet came along. For a while the Catholic Church had provided it and preserved also the Roman Empire, Nietzsche also acknowledged this, but with an inbuilt contradiction. Yet Nazism failed, too, and with it positive Christianity, which again is another heresy. Now the remnants of Norse Paganaism, Hellenism, Roman Law and Christianity exist in the collective European psyche all at the same time.

    • Agree: Assad al-islam
    • Replies: @Adûnâi
    , @Rurik
  180. @anonymous

    How can the Abrahamic God exist if one assigns to him the Creation of everything in the universe, deep concern for the welfare of his sentient conscious creatures and the willingness and ability to communicate with them? How is all that consistent with his/its allowing so many messages that needed later correction, and even then were inconsistent? And how could such a being ignore the Hindus, Buddhists and Animists?

  181. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Vaterland

    Really tired of these centuries old leftist platitudes.

    You mean you’re tired of history. Or maybe you don’t know any. But if you do:

    What about Potosi silver mine?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potos%C3%AD#Labor

    The Huancavelica mercury mine?
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214790X16300764

    The Cincha Islands guano mines?
    http://www.sarahalbeebooks.com/2013/10/the-grim-tale-of-guano/

    The Congo Free State
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State

    And the Herero and Namaqua genocide
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide

    Just for a start. Or is all history just “leftist platitudes”

    • Replies: @Vaterland
  182. @Laurent Guyénot

    Serious Jewish friends insist that the correct terminology is “the Jewish people”. But rather than describe them as a people I suggest the word “tribe is much more explanatory of reality. Israeli newspapers freely use the word tribe as did Einstein and it does, surely, point to the psychological underpinnings of Jewish identity. What is so remarkable is the way that heterogeneous bunch has managed to extend the feeling of tribal membership beyond the band of say 150 to 500 max whom you could count on to join you in slaughtering your neighbours in hard times.

  183. JWalters says:
    @Observator

    In Jesus’ parable of the good Samaritan, the wounded man on the road was passed by a priest and then a Levite. Jesus’ audience understood that they passed this man because they were obeying the Judaic Law, that Jews are not to get involved with non-Jews, because non-Jews have animal souls and Jews are superior beings. The Samaritan, a non-Jew, helps the injured man and is given as the model. Thus Jesus repudiated the foundation of the Judaic Law, and all the bigotry and cruelty that flow from it. The Old Testament has no place in a Christian church, except as an artifact and an example of what Jesus repudiated. The self-centered cruelty of our current banking masters reflects that archaic view, in which American non-Jews are as disposable as Palestinians. A deep history of how this came about, and how to fight back, are in War Profiteers and Israel’s Bank
    https://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com/p/war-profiteers-and-israels-bank.html

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin
  184. @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    This light/darkness thing is a duality, which is heresy within Christianity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogomilism was one such group that bubbled up with Manichean ideals.

    Christ never talked about swamp dwellers, because when you establish a prime cause like God, all beyond it is God’s work alone. God being in all things, makes it impossible to use God as a tool for differentiating between things.

    It is better to trust that result of action follows action, and that beneficial deeds birth beneficial results, and unbeneficial deeds birth unbeneficial results.

    • Replies: @Poco
  185. ted73 says:

    Judaic supremacists greatest trick – hiding the true nature of the Talmud.

  186. @Kratoklastes

    Atheism is just another position on the metaphysical, and so is just another faith. It is dishonest from the get go, because it claims that ‘God doesn’t exist’ is not a faith, but some statement of fact or logic. It is just more a-priori conjecture.

    The problem with the faith, other than its delusion, is that it lacks religion. There is no well trodden path to improve oneself for an atheist, just a new jungle to drudge through. Some self help books sure, but many of these works take principles from previous faiths anyways, so there is intellectual dishonesty in that too.

    Much easier to fall to ideology, and demean all other faiths.

    There is no reason that an atheist, or a theist, should be discriminated against, other than their own personal words or actions. But I would say that a negative metaphysics falls to nihilistic amorality and absurdity quicker than a positive metaphysics.

    • Agree: Laurent Guyénot
    • Replies: @AaronB
  187. @Laurent Guyénot

    Christianity is a Greek ideology based on some stolen Hebrew texts.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  188. Bert says:
    @Rurik

    I’ve said it often, Jews are not flawed because of their genes, they’re flawed because of their psychopathic worship of deceit, inequity and murder.

    Jewish group behavior is most likely caused both by the worship of a blood-thirsty mental image and by genetics. Considerable theory and evidence exists for gene-culture coevolution. And in Eastern Europe Jews were very probably naturally-selected for enmity to Gentiles during ten generations of exploitative relations with them. In those times, family size was closely correlated with economic status, and economic status would have been enhanced by lack of empathy toward outgroup counterparties.

    • Replies: @Franz
    , @Rurik
  189. Gapeseed says:

    Speaking as an American Catholic (non-theologian but somewhat devout), I think that Mr. Guyénot and much of the commentariat here win points for a certain bravery and creativity, but the entire discussion seems steeped in myopia (if not blasphemy).

    First, this article and discussion lose sight of the time frame in which God makes Himself known to mankind. It is an evolving and unfolding relationship of gradual revelation over thousands of years, reflecting some very hard times when the inhabitants of Judea and Israel were subjugated or dispossessed. Mr. Guyénot seems to condense these millennia into one characterization of God as cruel and unyielding. Mr. Guyénot also does not appreciate that for all of its spiritual bounty, the Bible is a collection of works authored by humans and not God, so contains interpretations and biases of the various writers.

    When condensing time, Mr. Guyénot does not seem to appreciate a possible perspective of an omnipotent and omniscient God, who, much more than His creation, plays the very long game outside of time itself. If God is to be freely loved and worshipped, He must make Himself known, over the course of generations, in what would appear to a mortal to be very small increments. If He were to appear in His majesty, it would be inconceivable to for us to do anything but bow down, worship, and follow His will exactly, which casts the idea of our free will to love into doubt. But He does reveal Himself, to those who seek Him, over time, for both individuals and generations. This unfolding might be hard for us to swallow, in part because it will probably span past our lives. But even before Christ appeared, mystical experiences and inspirations of later writers of the Old Testament point to an interpretation of a God less cruel and more loving, one concerned with the fate of individuals and less of the collective, which perhaps was a function of a people settled in Jerusalem and not wandering the desert.

    In assessing the difference between Jews and Christians, the Jewish emphasis is on God’s relationship with His Chosen, and as such, the Jews internalized a relationship in which they are judged collectively. With the confidence that they are Chosen and incomplete notions of the afterlife and individual judgment, they have taken a long but material view with strong in-group preferences, and thus rise or sink together. And it’s hard to knock the earthly results – this backwater tribe has flourished over time to its preeminent position today. Christ, on the other hand, emphasized not the power dynamics of the day in His teachings, but rather, a relationship in which individuals are judged. Ours is a long-term perspective too, but one in which we understand that justice may not be swift but is certain in this life or the next, and that we are to love God and others as individuals and not collectively.

    On the point of differentiation between God the Father and Christ, Jesus Himself was a devout Jew who, in a reply to Saint Philip who asked to be shown the Father, said that those who knew Jesus also knew the Father. Jesus was not separating Himself from the Father but binding Himself to the understanding that He was the fulfillment of a promise made by the evolving Jewish understanding of God, Yahweh.

    All this said, on particular modern policy issues, many Christians have mistakenly bought into the Zionist notion of the Chosen, one which clashes with our understanding that Christ opened God’s salvation for all. We should love our neighbors as ourselves, but not more than ourselves, and should protect ourselves from predations. Very specifically, this approach does not mean that America should do Israel’s bidding when our interests do not align. But also, we should resist the temptation to collectively judge any people, including Jews.

    Our approach is not optimized for this life when viewed materially, but if our goal is spiritual salvation, our approach is best, no matter the patience it might require when evaluating the actions of others.

    • Agree: dimples
    • Replies: @Assad al-islam
    , @ivan
    , @Rurik
  190. @RT

    Elohim is a plural form in Hebrew. Eloh-im.

    Very true! Hebrew is a very weak language as it has only one way to make plural is adding -im at the end of the noun. In Arabic, there are almost fifteen ways to make a plural. Also, the definition of plural in Arabic/Hebrew differs from the definition of plural in English. A plural in Arabic/Hebrew must have a minimum of 3 or more. Does the 3 ring the bell?

    The plural for elohim is for respect and usually used with a singular pronoun and a singular verb. However, when referred to pagan gods, the elohim is used with plural pronoun and plural verb as elohim itself is plural. Words like “we, our” can be royalty in Arabic/Hebrew and signifies a singular. For example, Quran refers to Allah as, “I (singular); We (plural); or Him (in third person)”. BTW, one cannot make a dual or plural of Allah as it being two words.

    The concept of Trinity is from three usages. 1) eloh-im, a plural of three. 2) our image. 3) In the beginning, word was with elohim…..

    Hebrew was dead during the times of Jesus, therefore Jesus and his disciples spoke Aramaic and not Hebrew. During the late 18th century, Hebrew was revived from Arabic.

  191. anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Woah! Take it easy there Freud.

    Could it simply be that he gave up on the deceit which is Pagan Polytheist Mangods-worship, and the web of lies it weaves? At least he took one of the steps to attain salvation… rejection of false Gods.

    Of course, the next step would be to accept the Tawheed, if one is so lucky. To put it in another way;

    Tawheed: I bear witness… There is no God [he is here], but God [he must reach here].

    Anyway, your nonsensical attempt at psychoanalysing that guy reminds me of such patently absurd constructs as the following;

    Eastern Orthodox theology is the theology particular to the Eastern Orthodox Church. It is characterized by monotheistic Trinitarianism, belief in the Incarnation of the essentially divine Logos or only-begotten Son of God, a balancing of cataphatic theology with apophatic theology, a hermeneutic defined by a polyvalent Sacred Tradition, a concretely catholic ecclesiology, a robust theology of the person, and a principally recapitulative and therapeutic soteriology.

    monotheistic Trinitarianism? Lol! Haven’t the major Christian sects internalised this oxymoron, even if the definition of their theology may be somewhat different than above?

    So you, an apologist for such pagan nonsense, are simply a reflection of the deceivers who came up with that mind-bending stuff.

    If you can’t convince them, then confuse them. Yeah?

    • Troll: Seraphim
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  192. @karel

    Any volcano would be rather useful for throwing children into its crater

    Good point. I adressed the volcanic origin on Yahweh in https://www.unz.com/article/the-arabian-cradle-of-zion/

    • Replies: @karel
  193. @Hiram of Tyre

    More specifically, the Jews and Muslim’s Gods (Eloh and Ilah) has its roots in the Canaanite God, El.

    Till today both the Old, Old Archaic Arabic and Modern Arabic is written without vowels. During the times of Jesus, Hebrew was dead and therefore Jesus and his disciples spoke Aramaic. Also, in times of Jesus, written Arabic/Aramaic/Hebrew were weak languages and therefore the New Testaments is in Koine, Greek and not in the language of discourse of Jesus.

    The Quran was revealed with Classical Quranic Arabic, which was and still is the strongest language. With both Proper Grammar and Vowels. Till today, the Quranic Classical Arabic is the strongest language and nothing is added to it. Small pieces of TaNaKh (Old Testaments) existed here and there without proper grammar and vowels. Between 10th to 12th century, the TaNaKh was put pen to paper, by borrowing the proper grammar and vowels from the Holy Quran. Jews, till today write the noun God as, “G-d” for some strange reason.

    You will notice that God is a noun and not a proper noun. So YHWH was left without vowels. When you put vowels in yhwh it becomes, “ya’huwah” meaning, “O’ He”.

  194. @anon

    I am sometimes reproached for not citing Douglas Reed. But he was indeed very influential in my research. The thing is his book is now a bit old, especially regarding biblical scholarship, and also not very well sourced, so I had to track down every source. But I must pay hommage to his pioneer work.

  195. @anon

    thinking that suppressing religious belief leads to a better society and better behaviours is at best delusional.

    I agree. I defended this very opinion in https://www.unz.com/article/enshrining-god-in-the-constitution-robespierres-great-idea/

    • Replies: @Owl Friend
  196. anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:
    @RumpelstiltskinTheGoy

    have been revised

    You pagan godless have “revised” it umpteen times already. Another attempt for old times sake?

    “Revisionism” … the pathetic history of the pagan faith called Christianity. Just make up stuff as you go. It is amazing that you pagans talk about “revision” so casually, about something which is supposed to have been “revealed” by God.

    Now, what to keep, and what not to keep… that is the question. What to add, and…

    It must be so exciting. 😀

    • LOL: gay troll
    • Troll: Seraphim
    • Replies: @RumpelstiltskinTheGoy
  197. @Gapeseed

    First, this article and discussion lose sight of the time frame in which God makes Himself known to mankind. It is an evolving and unfolding relationship of gradual revelation over thousands of years, reflecting some very hard times when the inhabitants of Judea and Israel were subjugated or dispossessed.

    God is Timeless, with that in mind the Creation is Timeless too, not some, “thousands of years”. Oh’ I forgot all those artifacts on earth were brought by satan to fool us, the simple minded men!

    Haha!

    • Replies: @Gapeseed
  198. Anon[397] • Disclaimer says:

    Poor thing, with no authentic history and civilization record of its own, get brainwashed and fooled by other tribe for millenniums, sons and daughters still arguing and quarrelling about details of lies.
    Foreseeable to be fooled for more time to come with such a pride and confidence in itself. Poor thing.

  199. @Anon

    The story of God Incarnate Jesus is true.

    This portion of what you’ve written above is consistent with that truth and very insightful as to the mindset of those of the ethnicity called “Jews”:

    The Jews are results oriented, not singular-deity oriented beyond the “singular deity”” that is essentially the combined Will of Judah.

    This fact being central to one of their primary reasons for rejection of Christ as their Messiah. Which is that, simply, Christ’s presence had not awarded them with World control. So, he could not be their Messiah.

    Depriving Jews of their plans is the point of Christianity as a competing cult; which found its ultimate home in the capital of Judah’s long term enemy: Rome.

    Which is why Jews hate Christ and Christians above all else. There is no other religion whose existence is predicated on opposing Jewish evil and its cultic vehicle.

    Christianity reads more like a resurrected Israeli (and therefore anti-Jewish / anti-Yahweh) cult than a Jewish secret weapon.

    Christ is a replacement for the Jewish Messiah, not the Jewish Messiah. As the Jews well illustrate when they speak about Christ.

    Jesus if the fulfillment of The Father’s Plan. He is not the fulfillment, but rather the permanent denial, of Jews’ wishes for self supremacy as supreme beings equal or exceeding the status of God Himself.

  200. @Laurent Guyénot

    FYI, I am a theist.

    I am glad that you confirmed this. Being an ex-Jew, I am sure that you are well versed in both the Judaism and its offshoot the Christianity. But your knowledge of Islam is Zilch and the knowledge of various sects within Islam is Zilch too! Yes, I know that you are prejudice and strongly believe that Mohammad plagiarized the Bible and got the stories wrong!

    Please leave Islam in your discussion of Judaism and its offshoot Christianity. Like I said, that your knowledge is Zilch about Islam. Did you know that Quran contains two contradictory version of Creation of seven universes and earth a similar number. Notice earth being seven too. In Islam the Creator cannot be a creation and everything we see around us is Creation, including Emotions, God doesn’t have Emotions of Love or Hate.

    The two contradictory version of Creation are: 1) God wills and the seven universes and the similar number are created in an instant. Again, instant contains Time. Since both Time and Space are Creation therefore God doesn’t occupy Space and He/She/It is Timeless, meaning it is always, “Now” for God. No past, present, future, just “Now”. We are bound in timezone, and somewhere in this massive universe it might be 10,000 years in past or 10,000 years in future. But everywhere for is “Now” for God. 2) The second way the Creation involves Time, which we know. So, the seven universes and earth a similar number is Created in six ayams. Ayams means, “day, seasons, periods and so forth”.

    The Sunni before they were Sunni, they were in two groups. The Ashari (the Traditionalist) and Mutazila who were like Shia and who preserved the Greek Philosophy. There was always tussle between Ashari and Mutazila. The Mutazila didn’t understand the concept of “Now” as defined by Imam Ali (as), so they were trapped by Ashari that God is doing nothing. Wrong! God keeps on Creating and Planning!

    So, the Ashari killed almost all the Mutazila. Some went underground and later surfaced as Shia. From then on the Ashari (Traditionalist) changed their name to Sunni and closed the doors on education, science and so forth. This lead to decline of Islam we see today!

    I once told my Christian friend that God is in Hell and Septic Tank too. He started to smirk about God being in Hell and Septic Tank. Guess what? Both Hell and Septic Tank are God’s domain too, and there in life in both places. No, satan doesn’t control Hell as everything Created including satan is God’s domain. Islam is not Dualism like Hindu and Christainity!

    • Replies: @Pater
  201. Belchazar says:

    Laurence has fallen into the same trap as the Jews, he agrees that God is the same God they worship. Just because he doesn’t like that false God doesn’t mean he hasn’t fallen in the same trap – a failure to understand that the Mosaic covenant is finished. It had a purpose for a time; but was meant to produce a spiritual result, but they failed to get it like Laurence has, and viewed it cynically as a way for earthly riches. So they continue on on this curse of not getting it, and the devil makes it seem like it’s working. There is no poison in God’s true law, only goodness. As to all the killing in the OT suffice it to say that it’s the same God, he just waits till a person dies to exact punishment now – so repent of all sin and unbelief! Believe in Jesus. Now is the time a person can find the loving God, not after, it is too late after, after you will see that the God of Sinai is still there.

    • Agree: ivan
  202. Franz says:
    @Bert

    Jewish group behavior is most likely caused both by the worship of a blood-thirsty mental image and by genetics.

    This is very close to the argument the late, sorely missed Michael Bradley in his 1982 book, Chosen People from the Caucasus. He was not given much love by his fellow Canadians or his fellow Jews for the arguments he advanced. And he was close to an evolutionary determinist: He thought it was more like nine-tenths genetic.

  203. @Armaggedon

    Yes, fundamentally, the Jesus cult is a Hellenistic hero cult (worship of an immortal demi-god). But don’t forget the Egyptian legacy: Mary is Isis with a Jewish veil, Osiris is Christ, and Horus is the child Jesus.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @AaronB
    , @Robjil
  204. Anon[199] • Disclaimer says:

    I could never make much sense of the Old Testament, either as a teenager when I read the Bible assiduously, or later. It seemed to either contradict the New, or be irrelevant. The words of Jesus made sense (mostly). Those of the Old Testament made little sense. I ignored them.

    • Replies: @ivan
  205. @anonymous

    English is not my native language, please excuse me if I wasn’t clear enough. By revision I mean revising the Torah in a reciprocal manner: In the “original” Torah Yahweh promises riches to the Jews if they keep the covenant and kill or enslave the Non-Jews. In the revised Torah the new Yahweh promises riches to the Non-Jews if they kill or enslave the Jews. Humanity needs justice, after all.

  206. Anonymous[380] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    What I said about “recovering” is easily confirmed across the Internet, and its associated “recovery” movement constitutes textbook Freudian psychobabble—not what I wrote. Based on your writing style—the womanish use of “whoa” for example—, you’d qualify as a “Karen,” right?

    What’s laughable is an intellectual flyweight like you embarrassingly taking the view from nowhere without even realizing it, commenting as if you were from another planet and not yourself a spoiled rotten, ungrateful and unmerited beneficiary of Christendom. You also imply that you’ve evaluated the art, architecture, music, philosophy, ethics (that allow your sort to live in the first place), law, science (that but for the Scholastics would have no vocabulary or conceptual tools to even begin), and found them wanting. May you and your kind some day be judged by your standards and not those of the Christians you despise.

  207. karel says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    Laurent Guyénot,

    of course, I read your earlier article the arabian-cradle-of-zion and only now a lot of things start to make sense. I noticed there your reference to a secondary source concerning Alois Musil. Musil was a great traveler and published numerous books. In English appeared his 6 volumes of ”Oriental Explorations and Studies”, which is despite my long search unavailable as if someone has burned all the books. In the twenties Musil published in Czech 11 volumes of ”Dnešní Orient” (Orient Today), which is for some reasons practically unavailable. Musil was a colourful character, apart from being confessor to the archduchess Zita, he also functioned as an Austrian spy and diplomat. Perhaps I will be able to hold of some of these documents and learn something about volcano mythology in Arabia. Will let you know, if you are interested.

  208. Seraphim says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    A thing that escapes the attention of the ‘Egyptian legacy’s’ advocates. Mary conceives Jesus parthenogenetically. Isis conceives Horus naturally, magically reviving Osiris and inserting his penis into her vagina. She was not a virgin anyway.

    • Replies: @Armaggedon
  209. anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:
    @Seraphim

    My idea is to induce them to check for themselves and undertake the same study I did, especially in matters so grave as our faith.

    You give yourself too much credit. That is what charlatans do.

    So, how exactly does one “check for themselves” the authenticity of such pagan nonsense as the “Trinity,” upon which all major sects of Christianity depend on so precariously? All you have is predicated on books-of-hearsay, which in itself is predicated on prior hearsay, and so on, down the ages. I think, GIGO, applies here.

    No matter how many years of study you undertake, the deceit that is the pagan “Father/Son-gods” of Christianity can never be conclusively proven. The very idea that the Infinite God is man-like should have been a non-starter, something utterly defying common-sense. But no, your kind calls it “The Truth.” Like simply capitalising the word will magically make it the truth. You pagan idiots.

    In fact, it has been seen, that the more people truly study pagan faiths such as Christianity, they tend to renounce it and become godless entirely. That is, until the Almighty One may (or not) will them into the light of true monotheism.

    The only theology which can be “proven” (in quotes because it is still a state of mind, but much better than faith in hearsay, which your kind professes), is that which makes logical sense to your own mind, something you can realise even if you were the only person on earth, with nary a person or book or scroll to “guide” you.

    Jesus PBUH, as the “son of god,” makes no logical sense, except when you accept what somebody else is claiming. Consider this hypothetical… if you were stranded on an island, since birth, nurtured only by animals, would you come to the same conclusion about man-like gods?

    This is where, Islam wins. The Tawheed is so simple, that it is self-validating. If one believes that we could not have materialised out of nothing, then there must be a Creator of everything we see, and not see. And, that Creator, must be Singular. The Tawheed.

    It is all quite simple, but the pagan godless have to make it so complex.

    • Troll: Seraphim
    • Replies: @RumpelstiltskinTheGoy
  210. dimples says:

    After reading the article a few times I find myself more or less agreeing with Mr Guyenot, although I have difficulty with equating the ravings of the prophets with the supposed god Yahweh’s actual thought processes or speech. Yahweh is just a metaphysical construct, and therefore cannot be blamed for the actions of the Jews. Indeed it is the Jews who construct Yahweh and must accept the consequences of their actions. But of course Guyenot is really talking about the effects of a belief system.

    Yahweh’s claim to fame was always his supernatural power, which justified him so to speak. The passage quoted in the article about the slaughter of the priests of Baal is a prime example. Yahweh won because his prophet could produce lightning from the sky but his competitors could not.

    “In ancient Syria, Baal (a term meaning simply “Lord”, as the Hebrew Adonai), also known as Baal Shamem (“the Lord of Heaven”), was understood as the Supreme God, encompassing all the manifestations of the divine.[5] And so it is ironic that Yahweh, a tribal god, should compete with the great Baal for the status of Supreme God. The cult of Baal received royal support in the powerful kingdom of Israel under the Omrid dynasty (9th century BC). We learn in the Cycle of Elijah (from 1Kings 17 to 2Kings 13) that the Yahwist prophet Elijah challenged 450 prophets of Baal to conjure lightning upon a sacrificial bull: “You must call on the name of your god, and I shall call on the name of Yahweh; the god who answers with fire, is God indeed”—an implausible situation since Baal, being the God of an agrarian society, never required holocausts. Elijah wins the contest, and people then fall on their faces and scream “Yahweh is God! Yahweh is God!” Then they seize all the prophets of Baal, and Elijah slaughters them (1Kings 18).”

    If Baal is the Supreme God as suggested by Guyenot, then surely he ought to be able to produce a bit of lightning from the sky to cook a bull. But then Guyenot suggests that Baal is merely the God of an agrarian society which never required holocausts (ie I assume this means burnt offerings) Which ancient society, agrarian or not, never required burnt offerings? Very few I expect. In any case, quoting Wikipedia:

    “Nonetheless, Ugaritic records show him as a weather god, with particular power over lightning, wind, rain, and fertility.[23][d] The dry summers of the area were explained as Baʿal’s time in the underworld and his return in autumn was said to cause the storms which revived the land.”

    So Baal in Canaan, it is said by archaeologists, was a weather god in control of lightning etc. A challenge to Baal to produce lightning therefore seems perfectly fair to me, unless the above quotation is incorrect or inapplicable.

    Also Guyenot states that the slaughter of Baal’s prophets was ‘treacherous’, eg:

    “To slaughter treacherously hundreds of prophets of Baal is good, because it is the will of Yahweh (1Kings 18). ”

    Well I don’t know, but if you were a crowd of onlookers in ancient and more primitive times, who, it is said, saw lightning fall from the sky at the prophet’s command you might not be too worried about what happened to the losers. Indeed the imperative in your mind might be to cleanse them off the earth immediately.

    • Agree: ivan
  211. AaronB says:
    @Ilya G Poimandres

    Hey Ilya,

    My understanding is that you are a Theravadin Buddhist, correct?

    As such, you believe in self improvement.

    I was curious what you thought of Mahayana Buddhism and how it ultimately eliminates the idea of self improvement in what to me is a fascinating development of the core Buddhist idea.

    I’m gonna put it below the more tag because it’s only tangentially related to this thread –

    [MORE]

    The basic early Buddhist idea is to have no desire and no ego. So the Theravadin Buddhists developed a complex system to eliminate desire – meditations on how disgusting the body is, etc – and eliminate the ego.

    Gradually, as time passed it was realized that trying to achieve Nirvana for oneself was inherently selfish, thus inherently ego-building – so the institution of the Boddhisattva was born, who works for the salvation of all being and refuses personal salvation only.

    But then a truly fascinating thing happened – it was gradually realized that desiring not to desire is still a desire! In fact, an enormous, almost superhuman desire, the greatest desire of them all, to transcend human nature.

    So then you have Buddhist schools like Ch’an start appearing – characters like Bodhidharma who basically say there is nothing to do whatsoever, nothing to attain, nothing to grasp, no point meditating, etc.

    This attitude was the ultimate refinement of the core Buddhist idea, its final development – don’t even desire not to desire. Let everything be just as it is – even your desires.

    Trying to improve yourself – self-improvement – only builds the ego. Working on yourself traps you in desire.

    Buddhism sort of circles back on itself and realizes its ultimate development is to transcend its very starting assumption of eliminating desire – it’s a beautiful example of a circle.

    To me it’s a very beautiful kind of dialectics where the one sided extreme of eliminating desire gets transcended in a higher synthesis – where desire is left just as it is, but one perhaps doesn’t take it too seriously anymore 🙂

    Self-improvement is after all a very egoistic thing to do – the final Buddhist position seems to be don’t take your self so seriously!

    What do you think?

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
    , @Ano4
  212. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:

    If Christianity was just a jewish invention, why have these jews, for the last two thousand years, been actively trying to destroy Christianity. It seems that around the turn of the 20th Century is when jews have been the most successful in insinuating themselves within Christianity, which has caused its perversion and inevitable decline.

    Also, as far as Atheism is concerned, Atheism, like everything else is a belief, it is not dispositive on any issue. And like a religious belief, it can be manipulated (e.g. Communism). People are by nature corrupt/corruptible, and personally I will uphold the Constitution as it was envisioned by the Forefathers as it provides the most freedom from those who would use anything to control the majority.

  213. AaronB says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    You may be interested in the thought of Bruce Charlton.

    He calls himself a Christian, but frankly rejects not only the Old Testament but most of the New (he rejects the Sermon on the Mount and most if Mathew).

    Under the guise of being a Christian, he is basically inventing a new religion that is in important ways based on – and a resurrection of – Greek pagan ways of thinking about religion, and early, primitive Greek thinking – not the later philosophical stuff.

    He sees Jesus as basically a demi-God who he approaches in the manner of hero-worship. To Charlton, God is not this vast, awesome, mysterious being, the foundation of all, etc, but just a physical demi-God, not basically different from humans, just like the Greeks saw their Gods.

    Its basically a repudiation of the Hebrew conception of God as this awesome being who is the source of All.

    To Charlton, God has a physical body and was once human-like just like us, and this Geeek-like demi-God is leading us on a grand quest to defeat evil and eventually become Gods ourselves ruling over other planets.

    It is inspired heavily by Mormonism – and it is obviously an Anglo-Saxon dream, becoming imperial viceroy of some distant planet-colony.

    Oh, and God has a wife as well, also a physical being, who shares rulership.

    It’s a fascinating recrudescence of early pagan-style thinking – like in Hellenistic times, today’s break down of religion is giving rise to some fascinating mini-religions arising.

  214. Poco says:
    @Ilya G Poimandres

    “Christ never talked about swamp dwellers.”

    I’m not so sure about that. He had some choice words for and about the moneychangers and pharisees. Many, if not most parables were explications on how not to be a swamp dweller.

    • Replies: @Ilya G Poimandres
  215. Vaterland says:
    @CanSpeccy

    There is nothing more ridiculous than Communists, the most bloody and genocidal ideology and political system in human history, lecturing anyone about war crimes, violence, colonization and oppression. I am not interested in discussions with indoctrinated people which I have already wasted way too much time on. American capitalists support the occupation, ethnic cleansing and destruction of Palestine and Europe or have nothing to say about it, leftists support the same in Tibet or have nothing to say about it.

    Free Palestine, free Tibet and free Germany. All empires are my enemy.

    • Replies: @Armaggedon
    , @CanSpeccy
  216. @anonymous

    This is where, Islam wins. The Tawheed is so simple, that it is self-validating. If one believes that we could not have materialised out of nothing, then there must be a Creator of everything we see, and not see. And, that Creator, must be Singular. The Tawheed.

    Ok, let’s follow this logic. You say the Universe didn’t materialize out of nothing. And you say, therefore there’s a Creator. But how did this creator materialize himself? Out of nothing? You see the logical hole there? Why couldn’t have the Universe materialized out of nothing?

    For the sake of argument, let’s assume that there’s a Creator. Why is this Creator Allah? Why isn’t he Brahma? Brahma also creates Universes out of nothing.

    You see, religions are illogical concepts. They were made to create societal order and to organize human evolution.

    • Replies: @Levtraro
  217. Adûnâi says:
    @Vaterland

    > “But there are over 300 theories on the downfall of the Roman Empire and “Christcuckery made the ROMAN BVLL a cuck” is just one of them.”

    An amazing list. But it strikes me as odd that you did not include the impact of the Marian reforms. It is my impression that before 107 BCE, Rome had successfully waged wars both in Italy and the Western Mediterranean, while effectively colonizing them with numerous settlements. After, their commanders fell prey to the gold of conquests and to the décadence of the Hellenic civilization, waging wars for their own glory and not for the ethnic Republic, and turning their imperialism from a genocidal ethnic one (Carthago delenda est!) into an economic one (the way post-Indian-genocide America functions).

    In the third century BCE, Rome and their Middle Italian allies could field hundreds of thousands of troops time and time again, after terrible losses. As Russian Bolshevik Marshal Jukov is famously said to have proclaimed about war casualties, “our women will breed more”. That was the ethos of Rome. In the following half a millennium, they became soft and complacent, full of rootless individuals.

    Modern Christcuck 4chan dwellers refer to China as “ants” and to Tukey as “cockroaches”. We Aryans must become ants and cockroaches to survive, like Rome was! A hivemind that crushes individuality and enemies both internal and external!

    As Chechar once entertained a fantasy, the corpses might be left crucified for 160 years!

    > “Also the Roman Empire DID survive for another thousand years in the so called Byzantine Empire who actually saw themselves and called themselves the Romans. The Eastern Part was also the far more wealthy one. So this common idea that without Christianity we would have been on the moon a millennium early with Divine Rome leading a star Imperium is just a total Warhammer 40k fantasy.”

    How can you draw conclusions from the fate of Christian Byzantium about the possible fate of un-Christian Rome?

    > “Given that Byzantium survived another thousand years, that our Holy Roman Empire lasted longer than the Roman Republic and Empire combined, especially if you count the Karolingian dynasty, and that the European Nations conquered the world under the cross, this Nietzsche idea is not it.”

    Why not? Christianity had a long history. The Renaissance was a remission. The baroque was a relapse into madness. The Enlightenment had features of both. The Congress Europe was opposed to both nationalism and liberalism… All combined with Marxist Industrialization in the 19th century. Only after came the giants of scientific racism – Charles Darwin, Francis Galton, Ernst Haeckel, Eugen Fischer, Madison Grant, Lothrop Stoddard. Too late!

    In 1906, [Eugen] Fischer conducted field research in German South West Africa… He argued that while the existing Mischling descendants of the mixed marriages might be useful for Germany, he recommended that they should not continue to reproduce. His recommendations were followed and by 1912 interracial marriage was prohibited throughout the German colonies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Fischer

    In the 1920s, Virginia’s registrar of statistics, Dr. Walter Ashby Plecker, was allied with the newly founded Anglo-Saxon Clubs of America in persuading the Virginia General Assembly to pass the Racial Integrity Law of 1924. The club was founded in Virginia by John Powell of Richmond in the fall of 1922; within a year the club for white males had more than 400 members and 31 posts in the state.

    In 1923, the Anglo-Saxon Club founded two posts in Charlottesville, one for the town and one for students at the University of Virginia. A major goal was to end “amalgamation” by racial intermarriage. Members claimed also to support Anglo-Saxon ideas of fair play. Later that fall, a state convention of club members was to be held in Richmond.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Integrity_Act_of_1924

    Yes, it would have been fascinating to see the development of the Culture War between the Jew and the Aryan in the European soul without the catastrophe of 1945 which Hitler so foolishly pursued. But we can see the glimpse of it in the peaceful America of the 1950s – gradual feminisation, gradual Negrification, the substitution of terms (Negro Africa > Black Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, sex > gender, Aryan/Indo-German > Indo-European), the repeal of anti-miscegenation laws.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws_in_the_United_States#Summary

    https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Black+Africa%2CNegro+Africa%2Csub-Saharan+Africa&year_start=1920&year_end=1990&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CBlack%20Africa%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CNegro%20Africa%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Csub%20-%20Saharan%20Africa%3B%2Cc0

    It would take the Holocaust to show the world the logical endpoint of such horrific ideology, discrediting much race-based science and forcing eugenics’ most hardline adherents into the shadows.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/disturbing-resilience-scientific-racism-180972243/

  218. Gapeseed says:
    @Assad al-islam

    God is Timeless, with that in mind the Creation is Timeless too, not some, “thousands of years”. Oh’ I forgot all those artifacts on earth were brought by satan to fool us, the simple minded men!

    It simply does not follow that because the Creator stands outside of time that the Creation does too.

  219. @Laurent Guyénot

    Yes, it is quite clear you do not know any of the 300 prophecies if you claim none refer to Jesus. You many know of them but you do not know them.

    There has only ever been one religion – the religion of Jesus Christ.

    Religion means Bond with God and it is God Himself who established it with Adam and Eve and revelation was a progressive matter in that God first began with the Old Testament Jews and revealed Himself to them and, via the prophets, God slowly, inexorably, ineluctably, revealed to the Jews Jesus Christ who they rejected and crucified.

    It is funny, is a sort of pathetic way, that you criticise God for not being clear enough. Judging God is so evil that that judgement would have to have two dozen weather balloons attached to it just for it to rise to the level of stupid.

    What irony is there in you hating Jews and defending Deicide for you ARE like those you hate, Jews, and you will end up like the faithless Jews is you do not repent while you still have time.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  220. gay troll says:
    @bjondo

    You’re right, Paine did not entirely understand the Christian Bible from his vantage point two centuries ago, but Joseph Atwill does, going beyond the obvious fulfillment of the “second coming” by Titus, to show that the entire ministry of Jesus is a black hearted satire of Titus’ campaign from Galilee to Jerusalem, written after the destruction of said city and backdated 40 years to create the illusion of prophecy. Atwill contends that the gospels were the brainchild of the Jewish priest Josephus, who witnessed Titus’ siege of Jerusalem, forsook the violent, ethnic messianism of his people, and embraced the dominion of Caesar.

    I try not to toss out the baby with the bath water when it comes to Christianity, because God is real and Stoicism is a sound if incurious philosophy. Also we are ALL God’s children and the true power of Christ (not his fictitious conjurings and resurrections) lives in the heart of all beings.

    But Jesus is fictional and to believe in him invites to yourself hypocrisy.

    • Replies: @bjondo
  221. Robjil says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    Ireland has a similar tale as Christianity’s. Dagda, the supreme God, cast a spell on a woman, Boinn, the wife of Elcmar, to conceive a child. The son Oengus would later trick his father out of ownership of Newgrange, the greatest mound site in Ireland.

    https://mythicalireland.com/MI/blog/myths-and-legends/dagda-had-two-mounds-newgrange-and-mound-b/

    Here is about Dagda, the father God and the affair with the woman Boinn.

    On many occasions, I have told the story of how Dagda (also known as Eochaidh Ollathair), the supreme deity and chief of the Tuatha Dé Danann, was tricked out of ownership of Síd in Broga (Newgrange) by his son, Oengus Óg. Oengus was born through magic when Dagda cast a spell on Elcmar in order to have an affair with Elcmar’s wife, Bóinn (also known as Eithne).

    The father God Dagda, sent her husband Elcmar on journey. A bit like the Gospel, Joseph and Mary went of journey and had no place to stay.

    Dagda sent Elcmar on a journey, an errand of sorts, and Elcmar would think he was only away for a single day, yet in reality he would be away for nine months – just long enough for the conception of the child Oengus and his carrying to full term and birth by his mother, Bóinn.

    The Son Onegus tricked his father Dagda, the Supreme God, out of ownership of Newgrange, the greatest mound site in Ireland.

    Now I must point out at this juncture that there are, in fact, two threads of mythology about who originally owned Newgrange, both of which have similarities. In one thread, Dagda is the original owner. In the other, retold in Tochmarc Étaín (the Wooing of Étaín), Elcmar is its owner. It is in this second thread, the Wooing of Étaín, that Dagda sends Elcmar away so that he can lie with Elcmar’s wife.

    This Newgrange site is older than the Egyptian pyramids.

    https://www.boynevalleytours.com/newgrange.htm

    Newgrange is a Stone Age monument in the Boyne Valley, County Meath, Ireland. It was built about 3,200 BC (5,200 years ago) during the Neolithic period, which makes it older than Stonehenge and the Egyptian pyramids. Newgrange is a large circular mound with a stone passageway and chambers inside. The mound is ringed by large stones known as kerbstones some of which are engraved with artwork.

  222. gay troll says:
    @Seraphim

    Only the Jewish faiths are grave, true faith is light of heart; it is your heart that will be weighed against a feather when you die.

  223. @Seraphim

    Mary conceives Jesus parthenogenetically.

    Only in the minds of ttwisted monks, not in the texts which these monks squatted.

    • Troll: Seraphim
  224. @Kratoklastes

    Yes, that’s IT!!! That is the key to history. Saint Paul just made up a bunch of stuff.

    The question is WHY?

    Why did he make u a bunch of stuff?

    Prolly because he was really hankering to be violently attacked and abused. Saint Paul The masochist.

    2 Corinth: They are Hebrews: so am I. They are Israelites: so am I. They are the seed of Abraham: so am I. [23] They are the ministers of Christ (I speak as one less wise). I am more; in many more labours, in prisons more frequently, in stripes above measure, in deaths often. [24] Of the Jews five times did I receive forty stripes, save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once I was stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I was in the depth of the sea.

    [26] In journeying often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils from my own nation, in perils from the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils from false brethren. [27] In labour and painfulness, in much watchings, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. [28] Besides those things which are without: my daily instance, the solicitude for all the churches. [29] Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is scandalized, and I am not on fire? [30] If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things that concern my infirmity.

    [28] “My daily instance”: The labours that come in, and press upon me every day.

    [31] The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed for ever, knoweth that I lie not. [32] At Damascus, the governor of the nation under Aretas the king, guarded the city of the Damascenes, to apprehend me. [33] And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and so escaped his hands.

    Yes. of course, Saint Paul was just dying to be treated this way. So were the other Apostles, all of whom except Saint John were murdered for accepting Jesus as the Messias and telling all who would listen the Gospel/The Good Tidings

    It is all so clear when you just break it down.

  225. gay troll says:
    @Rurik

    Hello, it was the Caesars who first overthrew Rome, a generation before Jesus supposedly lived. It is the Caesars who occupied Judea and later destroyed Jerusalem. It was the Caesars who then invented Christianity to encourage extant Jews to worship a male idol and co operate with Roman rule. That the false creed of Christianity turned around and destroyed Rome itself is what you call, well, karma. Christianity is an imperial religion and an abomination to Republican values.

  226. @Vaterland

    “Free Palestine, free Tibet and free Germany.”

    Free Diego Garcia, free Guantamano, free Porto Rico, free Afghanistan, free Iraq, free Syria, free the Navajos, the Sioux, the Cherokees, etc. etc.
    Free the Tasmanians, ooops sorry, too late.

  227. @Laurent Guyénot

    Dear Mr. Guyenot.

    You are in the recycling business and what you recycle are the typical lies tha have long been told in opposition to The Holy Trinity and especially Jesus Christ.

    Now, of course many in here laud you for your anti Christic and pro pagan propagandistic polemics but dont’ be blinded by the praise of the ignorant.

    Your claims are recall told and recycled garbage. You are no theist.

    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/the-early-church-fathers-and-paganism

    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/jesus-and-the-pagan-gods

    https://www.catholic.com/tract/is-catholicism-pagan

    • LOL: Pater
    • Replies: @Anon
  228. Talha says:

    Yahweh…I lament that he has been taken seriously by billions of people, Jews, Christians and Muslims.

    Yeah…uh, leave us Muslims out of this thing. We don’t really have an obligation to believe what’s in the Bible (since that is the source of much of what you are analyzing/criticizing). Take it up with the people who actually believe it is an accurate record of Divine inspiration/revelation.

    Thanks in advance.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  229. Rurik says:
    @Vaterland

    So this common idea that without Christianity we would have been on the moon a millennium early with Divine Rome leading a star Imperium is just a total Warhammer 40k fantasy.

    I’m not so sure.

    Look at what Nazi Germany was able to accomplish in a few years once it threw off the spiritual chains of Jerusalem. From prostrate, with Zion sitting on them like that fat guy in Idiocracy, to prosperous global super power, in the blink of an eye.

    Where would America be if it printed its own money and didn’t engage in relentless, disastrous wars?

    Every dollar spent on World Wars, every dollar spent on weapons and wars in order to defeat a Soviet empire that the ‘Christian West had funded and created. Woodrow Wilson was instrumental in facilitating Trotsky’s Bolshevik revolution in Russia.

    WWII was orchestrated by the moneyed powers in order to destroy an ascendant Germany, (just like WWI), and solidify their Total control over the Western world. Where would Germany be today, if it were free to pursue its destiny undestroyed by the ‘Christian West in two Total Wars?

    And those were recent mass-insanities, intended to crush and enslave the West, once and for all.

    Consider the 30 years war, that wiped out 20% of the German population at the time, over whose Christian sect would have more power. Where would Germany be had there been no 30 Years War? And then on top of it, no World Wars of the 20th century. ‘To the moon’ seems an understatement. I’d say likely to the stars.

    The accomplishments of Rome were not just dormant, they were destroyed. Utterly, like the Library of Alexandria, or Carthage. The science and technology and accumulated wisdom was eliminated, and replace with a narrative that people are nothing more than depraved sinners that must beg forgiveness for their earthly and sinful mortal existence, and confess and repent to the priests, who were their only hope for salvation.

    What replaced Rome? The Vatican. Christianity. The worship of a Jew.

    How did that happen? I have no f’n idea. Like you said, there are hundreds of theories. But I wonder if shekels weren’t involved somehow.

    In any case, I just wonder where the West would be, if ancient Rome wasn’t destroyed and replaced with Christianity, and a believe that all fundamental truths can be found in the Bible. And salvation can only be accomplished by negating and repenting your earthly existence, and blindly worshiping a Jew as your God.

    • Replies: @Talha
  230. Pater says:
    @Assad al-islam

    Abrahamism is Abrahamism, it’s all pilpul, sophism and supernaturalism. At least Christianity was moderated by European ethics & philosophy.

  231. Rurik says:
    @Bert

    Jewish group behavior is most likely caused both by the worship of a blood-thirsty mental image and by genetics

    Perhaps.

    The ol nature vs. nurture thingy

    It’s just seems odd to me that the Jews of ancient times, as this article lays out, were just as psychopathic, murderous and treacherous as the Eastern Europeans who adopted that execrable religion a few hundred years later.

    Two very distinct peoples, from very different histories and regions and genetic identities, but who both behave like genocidal assholes and read from the same Torah/Tanakh.

    That they’re both genetically predisposed to scumbagery (deceit, greed, swindling, perversion, usury, genocide, etc..), seems like a hell of a coincidence.

  232. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Vaterland

    Hey Farterland, Re:

    There is nothing more ridiculous than Communists, the most bloody and genocidal ideology and political system in human history, lecturing anyone about war crimes, violence, colonization and oppression. I am not interested in discussions with indoctrinated people which I have already wasted way too much time on.

    Instead of braying like a stupid Fascist donkey, why not offer an actual argument?

    For instance, in what way does the Torah, as included in the first five books of the Christian Bible, differ from the Jewish Torah?

    And in what way did the understanding of the Torah by the Christian imperialist powers differ from the genocidal doctrines of the Jews of ancient Palestine?

    And for those not quite up to speed on that question, here’s the great poet of Christian empire, Rudyard Kipling, spelling it out for those unaware of the theological underpinnings of Western imperialism:

    If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
    Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe,
    Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
    Or lesser breeds without the Law—

    Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
    Lest we forget—lest we forget!

    The identification of British Christian imperialism with Jewish hegemonism and its dependence on subservience to Yahweh is explicit. Moreover, the relationship was generally understood and accepted. Indeed, Kipling was so widely appreciated and applauded he won the Nobel Prize for literature.

    For those who love Kipling’s literary art, here’s the rest of that poem: Recessional.

    • Replies: @Franz
  233. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    In any case, I just wonder where the West would be, if ancient Rome wasn’t destroyed

    Well, to be historically honest, Europeans would still likely be:
    1. Enslaving each other (and potentially selling each other in other continents)
    2. Worshiping various conflicting deities and cults and potentially fighting about them (Which pantheon Western man? Nordic, Greco-Roman, Celtic, etc.)
    3. Tribal and still polygamous (I’ll let you decide whether that is a good or bad thing)

    Rome would invade other tribal European peoples and was in turn attacked by them (sometimes being sacked in reprisals) – it was not peaches and cream. Two illustrative examples are the revolt of Queen Boudicca and Chief Brennus*. Beyond the borders of Rome, various tribes would raid and expand into each others’ territories. The only way to have stopped them would have been to put the entire continent under Pax Romana – one which was fiercely resisted by the various people of Europe.

    Remember also that an Arab was once Roman Emperor, so Rome definitely was accommodating of non-Europeans within the power structure:
    “A member of a distinguished equestrian family of Arab descent, Philip was praetorian prefect when the emperor Gordian III was killed in a mutiny (perhaps with Philip’s connivance). Philip became emperor and quickly concluded a peace ending a war with Persia.”
    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Philip-Roman-emperor

    All of these things should be taken into account. I’m a Muslim, but I think simply discarding the positives that Christianity brought to Europe and only focusing on the negatives is not a sound approach to the situation.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Robjil
    , @Rurik
  234. @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    Judging God is so evil

    You don’t understand, or pretend not to. I am not judging “God” (whatever that is, Intelligent Design, etc.), I am mocking the grostesque biblical character called Yahweh, and the idea that “God chose one tribe of Arabian nomads, prepared them to receive the Savior of Mankind, and simultaneously predestined them to crucify him.”

  235. @Nick Kollerstrom

    Are you interested in bringing PID to Unz? I’ve yet to see it here.

  236. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    I loved your article, but I am still kind of leaning toward the ‘God’ of the Old Testament being a female tranny (FTM) with Boarderline Personality Disorder, comorbid with Histrionic, Narcissistic, and Antisocial issues.

    That’s right, she’s the very definition of the Cluster B spectrum.

    You could say that she’s the whole package, especially when it comes to being a single parent of her special chosen children.

    She’s a vain, irrational, and as dangerous as an aging former beauty queen.

    She’s also as vicious as a jealous alcoholic lesbian wielding a broken long-neck Budweiser at 2am in a dike bar.

    As a typical irrational woman, along with the gender identity issues, she incorrectly and predictably equates unrestrained aggression and a general asshole persona with masculinity & power – so she’s exactly like 99% of female cops.

    Above all, she wants to be worshiped.

    So, what kind of children would such a single mother with mood disorders and addiction issues raise?

    To say that her ‘biological children’ are made in her image would be an understatement, that her goy foster children grafted onto her tree all behave like adult children of an alcoholic would be a given.

  237. karel says:
    @Pater

    174 Pater Many thanks for the reference. If you look the map
    https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/saudi-arabia.html
    You will notice that there are 13 active volcanos in Saudi Arabia, indicating that this is the most probable place where the stories of Torah originate from, as Laurent Guyenot already proposed.

    • Agree: Pater
  238. Robjil says:
    @Talha

    Roman and Greece were great civilizations. It is tragedy that humanity only focuses on little Israel uber alles. We should be giving billions of dollars to Italy and Greece instead of Israel.

    The Pax Romana will always be remembered as one of best times in human history.

    https://www.ushistory.org/civ/6c.asp

    Pax Romana really was great time to be alive. Unlike today’s Pox Israelana.

    The term “Pax Romana,” which literally means “Roman peace,” refers to the time period from 27 B.C.E. to 180 C.E. in the Roman Empire.

    This 200-year period saw unprecedented peace and economic prosperity throughout the Empire, which spanned from England in the north to Morocco in the south and Iraq in the east. During the Pax Romana, the Roman Empire reached its peak in terms of land area, and its population swelled to an estimated 70 million people.

    Rome was very advance its arts and engineering.

    The 200 years of the Pax Romana saw many advances and accomplishments, particularly in engineering and the arts. To help maintain their sprawling empire, the Romans built an extensive system of roads. These durable road facilitated the movement of troops and communication. The Romans built aqueducts to carry water overland to cities and farms.

    Many of the advances in architecture and building relied upon the Romans’ discovery of concrete. Concrete made possible the creation of huge rounded arches and domes. One of the most famous structures built during the Pax Romana, the Pantheon in Rome, has one of the largest freestanding domes in the world to this day.

    Great literature was produced by Pax Romana.

    During the Pax Romana, many of Rome’s finest writers (such as Horace, Virgil, Ovid, and Livy) produced literary and poetic masterpieces. Rome became the economic, political, and cultural capital of the entire Western world.

    Rome will always be honored and missed. Pox Israelana will not be missed for one minute when it is gone.

    • Replies: @Talha
  239. Robjil says:
    @Talha

    I never understood the greatness of the oneness of God.

    One is still counting.

    Allness of God is what it is.

    God in heaven must be wondering, who cares how many I am?

    God would rather us all believe in the Oneness or Allness of humanity.

    Oneness or Allness of humanity would allow everyone to belief what they want about the sky world.

    The Roman Empire believed in the Allness or Oneness of humanity by accepting so many different cultures in their empire.

    Oneness of God is very confining. It does not allow for freedom of belief. It disallows art work even art work that cavemen did thousands of years ago. The great artwork of hunting animals by the cave artists would be disallowed by Oneness of God types. This artwork could never advance to Greek and Roman and Renaissance levels with Oneness of God types disallowing any artwork of nature.

    • Replies: @Talha
  240. Anon[128] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    Exactly! The anti-Christian sentiment in here is so thick, one could cut it with a knife. They are too ignorant and hate-filled to really look into what Catholicism really is, instead they rely on pseudo-intellectualism and ad hominids. Let them have their day, because in the end that is all they will have.

  241. @Laurent Guyénot

    Dear Mr. Guyenot. Your understanding of Predestination is as shallow as your understanding of who God is.

    You could read Saint Prosper of Aquitaine for free online to learn the truth about Predestination, but you prolly won’t as your metier seems to be exercises in confirmation bias.

    Here are a few essentials about Predestination that you might think about.

    God loves all of the Saints more than you and He has given then greater amounts of Grace than he has given you. God loves Mary far more than any other created person. THAT is why she is the greatest Saint.

    Consider Peter and Judas. Whom did God love more and to whom did He dispense more grace?

    However, God has given you enough grace to attain unto salvation – God desires that all be saved – but you are refusing to accept and cooperate with His grace.

    Dear Sir it is you who is the problem but you blame others. You are a hateful, bitter, irrational and illogical man and your haughtiness has led to your current fallen state.

    O, and God is a Trinity of persons (His Divine nature has three persons while our human nature has one person) not a what. You did judge God by saying He did not make it clear enough that Jesus is the Messias.

    One of your, many, problems is that you think you. a creature, can judge the actions of God, your creator, as evil or insufficient.

    https://archive.org/stream/stprosperofaquit027573mbp/stprosperofaquit027573mbp_djvu.txt

    • Replies: @Fox
  242. Talha says:
    @Robjil

    It is tragedy that humanity only focuses on little Israel uber alles.

    OK, but that wasn’t my contention.

    We should be giving billions of dollars to Italy and Greece instead of Israel.

    No problems here. That would certainly be preferable from my point of view.

    The Pax Romana will always be remembered as one of best times in human history.

    As I said, to bring all European tribes to quit fighting each other, Pax Romana had to be established over the entire continent. And Rome’s decline started well before Christianity came along – and, as far as I remember, Constantine (the Christian) actually reunited the empire after it had split, no?

    My simple point was this; to only see negatives that happened after Christianity came to Europe and dismiss the many positives, is simply not a good way to approach history.

    Peace.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  243. @Laurent Guyénot

    Howdy,

    There is HELL and most human beings will be going there

    HEAVEN hates human beings

    O, HOW YOU D E S P E R A T E L Y NEED J E S U S C H R I S T

    AYE…………..

  244. @Anon

    Dear Disclaimer. You may get a few laughs on earth with this bilious bravado but what do you imagine will happen when you stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and you have to answer for such evil?

    • Replies: @Anon
  245. Talha says:
    @Robjil

    Oneness of God is very confining.

    This is irrelevant; if there is one God, there is one God – whether we like it or not. “Muh freedomz” is not a viable argument from which to posit a metaphysical truth claim.

    One is still counting.

    Or establishing absolute uniqueness without resort to category/genus.

    The Roman Empire believed in the Allness or Oneness of humanity by accepting so many different cultures in their empire.

    Plenty of empires were multi-ethnic and multi-cultural and multi-religious (Persians for instance, even the Mongols); they simply had one particular alpha culture/religion/ethnicity to make sure everyone else got along.

    This artwork could never advance to Greek and Roman and Renaissance levels with Oneness of God types disallowing any artwork of nature.

    Likely. Some people like this kind of art, others like other types of art, it’s subjective.

    Peace.

  246. If I were a Christian, I would quote John 8:44. But I am not arguing from a Christian viewpoint, for although I accept the principle that the Gospel story was designed as a cure for the Jews’ mental enslavement by the Torah, I also consider that, unless it could vomit the Old Testament, Christianity will remain forever infected by the virus it was intended to combat.

    Paul wrote, and the Church founded by Jesus on the Rock He renamed Peter has always agreed, I’m not required to embrace Judaism, meaning the Torah / Old Testament, to have Jesus as my Divine Savior.

    So technically the vomiting occurred simultaneously with publication of initial Christian writings.

    That subsequently printing houses have bound the OT with the NT as “Bible” in a chronology of which I know little is not to be downplayed because as a Catholic now availed of the Sacrament of The Mass for the first time in over two months which included excluding Holy Week services and Easter Sunday Mass I know of and am discomforted by the practice of having an OT reading each Mass.

    The extremely edifying comment maker on this site MEFOBILLS has expounded frequently on the history of finance capitalist usury Jews in Amsterdam after being expelled from Spain in 1492 and before setting up shop permanently establishing their City of London in 1694 incurring astronomical expense to print and distribute Bibles to the goyim naturally slanted (((their))) way. The details of the slanting I don’t know but no doubt including the OT with the Good News does further “Jewdaizing heresy” to quote another comment maker here, JAKE.

    p.s. being a Christian doesn’t stop me from savoring the overwhelming logic and clever wording of the author italicized at the end of the blockquote – powerful, just as needed on this necessary point for Divine enlightenment.

  247. @AaronB

    I would say I study all the branches of Buddhism, but I find the Pali Canon to be more consistent, less esoteric, and less ritualistic – both things which the Buddha is quoted to disavow in the Pali Canon, so I tend to side with the Theravadins more.. The Chinese Agamas are very similar to the Pali Canon, though not as well translated, and really Theravada, like all Buddhism these days, is a cultural Buddhism with just a more ancient and Asian flavour than say the modern branch of Western secular Buddhism.. The Pali Canon is not read in Thailand for example. There is a resurgence in it over the last century, for the monks at least, but I have many Thai friends, and they haven’t read it, even in part. I say I follow Dhamma – the law, not the messenger.

    The Buddha taught https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.095.than.html

    The Mahayana idea of helping others before helping yourself is akin to a pupil taking the position of a teacher. The Buddha talked of doing both as best in the above link, and getting there in the right order, if possible. I help myself first, when I am competent to help others, I do so. But speaking as if knowing, without knowing is wrong speech, so don’t.

    The Buddha also said that some – paccekbuddhas – simply don’t have the ability to teach others, and even without a sammasambuddha declaring the law – who is basically a paccekabuddha who can teach – they discover the law for themselves, attain nibbana, and cease. I think that is what you see as Theravada arahantship, but really they are different things. Paccekabuddhas come into being any time the law is not annunciated publicly by a Buddha. They do work for themselves, but out of a failure of an ability to teach. An Arahant is not like this. The Pali Canon has many suttas by Buddha’s disciples – they don’t work just for themselves.

    The simile of the raft in Majjhima Nikaya 22 also allows for a Jhanna/Chan/Zen philosophy, because the teaching is only useful to a point. Once the learner understands it, he doesn’t need it. Same as for someone studying arithmetic – once they know how to multiply, they don’t need the times tables.

    It’s not that there is no thing to learn, but there is no thing to learn once the path of learning has been covered.

    As for the desire to lose desire, yes, but the Buddha (a Buddha, he is not a unique occurrence – just the first to establish the law of experience accurately for a particular world) spoke about this too.

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn51/sn51.015.than.html

    There are more suttas, but I am short on memory, sorry.

    Self improvement is very self centered, but I would say that this is only the language. The aim is to lose the notion of self, as it is only a verbal, conscious approximation to the experience that the senses are hit with. But there is agency in acting intentionally, even if to lose self. Really I am using incorrect language, and should think, and be more careful with how I frame this! 🙂

    I would say read the Pali Canon on suttacentral.net if you wish to know for yourself, or ask questions on https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/ – it has people from all paths that really delve down into the details! But imo Mahayana didn’t improve on the Buddha’s revelation, because the revelation was really at its source a refutation of all metaphysics for physics – a true scientific method of direct observation, but concerned with the internal, the self, not the external other. Mahayana however turns the problem back to the external, and becomes just another metaphysics, from my interpretation!

    • Replies: @AaronB
  248. anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:

    Here, the curse of pagan polytheist Christianity, which keeps on giving;

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/sspx-abuse-scandal-mainstream-media/

    Dreher seems to take some pleasure in breaking such stories – of course, with the requisite lamenting and virtue-signalling, because he is an Orthodox, and feels such perverted evil is not relevant to his temple. But, is that really true, I wonder? Is any christian temple, safe?

    That closet racist sure hopes every christian pagan, preferably whitey, would switch to Orthodoxy. There is probably much moolah to be made from being an early adopter and influencer. All those lucrative talks to give, all those people to deceive, with how he has some answers to save the pagan faith of Christianity.

    It is also ironic because the cult-like spiritual villages he advocates so passionately, the so-called Benedict Option, also happens to be the case in this wretched godless community. I hear of parents there who wish to ignore the pain of their abused children, and instead ask to “pray for our clergy,” and I think… *spit*

    Guyenot may be right, but perhaps not in a manner directly articulated here (actually I am not really sure, because the pagan abominations detailed here, were too nauseating to fully complete…). You see, Christians may think they are worshipping “gods,” but their faith sure appears to be sustained by Satan.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  249. Robjil says:
    @anonymous

    Oneness is humanity is what the heavens want. Counting Gods is not a way to make a good world. One, two, three is just counting. Doing good to others and for yourself counts more.
    Here the Dalai Lama talks about the oneness of humanity. I don’t follow him but I like the idea the oneness of humanity.

    https://tibet.net/his-holiness-the-dalai-lama-speaks-on-courage-and-compassion-in-todays-world/

    [MORE]

    His Holiness began his talk by emphasising the oneness of all human beings. “One of my commitment is the promotion of sense of oneness of human being,” he said.

    He further mentioned that our mind and speech should be dedicated to the well-being of all sentient being.

    Referring to the existing global crises, His Holiness said, “Beside nature disaster like global warming, which is beyond our control, apart from that all the problems are created by us”.

    Talking further, His Holiness briefly touched upon the issue between Shia and Sunni having the same faith yet kills each other. He sigh-fully said, “In the name of religion killing each other is unthinkable.”

    “Differences based on race, colour, creed, sex, etc are secondary level. On the deeper level physically and mentally, we all are same human being” he added.

    Tracing back to the evolution of religious tradition in India, His Holiness highlighted that India is the only nation where all religious tradition lives together and living example to the world on religious harmony.

  250. @Poco

    Mayhaps. I idolize Christ a little, because he did go to his death without fear, and I can’t see hate in such a being.. It seems I am projecting a tad! :p

    • Replies: @Poco
    , @ploni almoni
  251. AaronB says:
    @Ilya G Poimandres

    Thanks.

    The idea of the Bodhisattva isn’t that he teaches others, but that all the merit he accumulates through good deeds he freely hands over to others, and he refuses to enter Nirvana until everyone comes along with him.

    But you make a good point – this too is egotistic. While it would seem superficially less selfish than merely winning Nirvana for yourself, it is ultimately quite self-important, and hence egotistic.

    Which brings me to my main point.

    What really fascinates me is what I might call the dialectic of desire – first you start off by rejecting the world, then you realize that rejecting is as much desire as embracing, and you end up just where you started out – with the only difference that you see through your desires.

    That’s why the Mahayana sees the world as a dreamlike illusion – actually killing desire is desire, seeking to get beyond ego is egotistic, etc. These are what’s known as double-binds. A world full of double binds makes no sense.

    If desires make you suffer, but trying to kill desires is just another desire, you’re in a double bind – there is no way out. It’s a trap. When that happens, you go back to your assumptions – maybe this idea that there is this “I” who is separate from the world and who can act on it like an agent isn’t real.

    Also, if desires make you suffer but wanting not to suffer is just another desire, then you can only resolve the contradiction from a higher perspective – where instead of rejecting desire (the world), you see it as unimportant, a dream, not requiring any action.

    And the attitude then becomes one of humour – not the grim task of needing to kill desire, but taking desire lightly.

    That’s why Buddhism has been described as the religion of no-religion – because the actions that religion recommends – killing desire and the ego – are ultimately self-defeating!

    Anyways, just exploring a train of thought.

    • Replies: @Poco
    , @Ano4
    , @Ilya G Poimandres
  252. Gapeseed says:

    There is an anti-Christian animus here, manifested in accusing Christians of not living up to their own standards and of being infiltrated and dispossessed by malign forces. Regarding standards, well, at least Christians had standards, and history is replete with acts of Christian kindness (albeit occasionally misguided). In its universality and concern for the Other, it stands well above any other faith (religious or secular) in history.

    Regarding Christianity’s failure to stand up to other faiths, I would quote Donald Rumsfeld, who once mused that you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want. Man is a religious creature, and the replacements for Christianity are simply not up to the tasks of warding off the predations of other faith systems, be they religious or secular in nature. You have an army that formed and defended Western Civilization. Embrace it.

    • Agree: ivan
  253. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    if ancient Rome wasn’t destroyed

    Well, to be historically honest, Europeans would still likely be:
    1. Enslaving each other (and potentially selling each other in other continents)

    Why do you think so, Talha?

    Why wouldn’t the West/Rome continue on the trajectory of enlightenment vis-a-vis human dignity that ended slavery in the Western world?

    Was it Christianity that ended slavery in the West, or the Enlightenment?

    Didn’t Christians also participate in the international slave trade?

    Wasn’t The Enlightenment- (as reflected in the works of Rousseau, -among others- from a recent article of Mr. Guyenot) the moral foundation for the end of slavery? Wasn’t it the French Revolution, founded upon the principles of The Enlightenment, (again, motivated in part by Rousseau’s idea of man’s place in nature, and man’s fundamental dignity), the reason France outlawed all slavery in her colonies?

    It was Catholic France that enslaved people, and Enlightened France that outlawed slavery.

    No lesson in that?

    2. Worshiping various conflicting deities and cults and potentially fighting about them (Which pantheon Western man? Nordic, Greco-Roman, Celtic, etc.)

    And todays Abrahamic religions don’t fight each other? Including between themselves? I just mentioned the 30 years war.

    If people want to worship several deities, I personally don’t have a problem with that. I once was buddies with a Hindu man, who didn’t eat meat on Wednesdays because it was forbidden, and I learned of Shiva and Lord Rama and the other Gods and Goddesses, and he was a pleasant fellow from a very pleasant family. Nothing war-like or hostile or the least bit ornery about him, at least no more than anyone else I know. His sister was so kind, she was near saint-like.

    3. Tribal and still polygamous (I’ll let you decide whether that is a good or bad thing)

    I suppose Tribal is normal, at a certain level for us all. We tend to consider the interests of our own families, over the interests of strangers. And the interests of our extended families, over the interests of people on far away continents, of even just ‘them there over yonder’.
    Bedouins favor Bedouins and their lifestyles over their cousins in Morocco. It doesn’t mean they dislike Moroccans, just that they tend to favor their own kind, no?

    As for polygamous, I remember my dad was once visiting me long ago, and somehow we ended up in kind of nightclub district, and there were a lot of singles around. He asked me, ‘so, how many of these young fellas are going to get lucky tonight? I said something like ‘about 5%’. And he said, oh, is that how it works? I said ‘yea, but it’s the same 5% that got lucky last night, and will do so again tomorrow night’. Where upon my dad started laughing, and said ‘that’s not fair!’. And we both laughed. The point being, that nature sometimes trumps what’s fair. But officially polygamy should be discouraged, IMHO.

    Rome would invade other tribal European peoples and was in turn attacked by them (sometimes being sacked in reprisals) – it was not peaches and cream.

    That’s true, and I always admired the German tribe’s resistance to Roman rule.

    I’m certainly not pining for a return of the days of empire. I consider today’s empire of the ZUS to be an abomination upon mankind. A curse upon America, and a curse upon its many, many victims.

    But when Rome succumbed- to whatever combination of elements that brought her down- its former greatness and its science and technology, like the Library of Alexandria, or Carthage, seems to have been burned to the ground, and covered with salt. So that for a thousand years or more, advances in human thought and technology and science, languished in darkness, kept there by the priests, who’s power emanated out of an enforced ignorance and fear.

    At least, that’s how I see it. I’m not pooh-poohing Byzantium, or Constantinople or their magnificent cathedrals and accomplishments. I’m just lamenting the step backward technologically, and in other ways. I can hardly think of a worse system than European feudalism, for human happiness. Basically, universal slavery for all but a tiny few.

    Remember also that an Arab was once Roman Emperor,

    Why not, if it was on merit. If I was going to make the film Doctor Zhivago, I too would want to cast Omar Sharif in the role.

    Rome definitely was accommodating of non-Europeans within the power structure

    All the more reason I’d think you’d be sympathetic.

    simply discarding the positives that Christianity brought to Europe and only focusing on the negatives is not a sound approach to the situation.

    I’m thinking of today. Today I see great strife looming in the lands, unfolding before us all. I see an Orwellian pall of darkness settling over humanity. The Mark of the Beast = identity chips, and global surveillance, and Total totalitarian domination- seems a certainty in our near future.

    We need to think outside the box, if we’re going to be able to stave off what’s coming, IMHO.

    Zion is the center of cyber technology. And, I suspect, bio-warfare, and AI weapons, and a myriad of microwave weaponry and other nightmarish tools of domination and subjugation.

    And from the length and breath of the Western world, there isn’t nary a peep of protest, especially from the Christians of the world. A more servile flock of sheep, there has never been. They worship Israel in the churches, their ministers and TV evangelists gush over Israel in revolting displays of messianic degradation. Squeezing their eyes closed, and scrunching their faces as they pleadingly implore at the television screens, ‘Please God, let us all pray for Israel today, as they’re being threatened and terrorized as never before God. Let us pray that they can defend their holy land from the forces of evil that threaten it every day, God.

    Will you all pray with me’..

    Now pan to the congregation, and look at all those tightly closed eyes, and piously held heads, all praying to God to please, please defend little Israel from the evil men who hate our freedom, and who hate the Lord Jesus’, and hate God’s people..’ and then I have to hurl my lunch..

    And wonder, is Christianity going to get us out of this fix?

    Or do we need to look elsewhere spiritually, for something more salient, and vigorous, and even militantly resistant to the looming Orwellian nightmare soon to engulf this planet’s people?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
  254. Poco says:
    @Ilya G Poimandres

    Well, it doesn’t have to be hate. Call it justified chastisement.

    • Agree: Ilya G Poimandres
  255. Poco says:
    @AaronB

    I presented this very argument about escaping the ego as an egotistical desire to some budding Buddhists in college 30 years ago. They didn’t like it. I was harshing their mellow.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @AaronB
  256. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    I’m sorry, what did I say for laughs? I was dead fucking serious.

    My observations are derived from 50+ years on this damn planet, years of education in Catholic & Lutheran schools, a career as a public safety professional, as well as hard time in IT for a Fortune 1 corporation back in its day.

    I’ve had to scratch and claw my way back to sanity by giving-up trying to reconcile the ‘gods’ in the Old & New Testament, my life experience in the world that surrounds me, and the utter hypocrisy & irrationally of both my fellow man and my fellow Christians.

    That ‘god’ would threaten me with eternal torment says more about ‘god’ than it does about me attempting to use whatever modest rational skills I was given. Evil runs this place, period – that much I know.

    I attempted to reconnect with my faith about 2 years ago. I started with a systematic reading of the Old Testament from start to finish, which for all my years of religion classes was something that I’d never done. What a shit show from the very beginning.

    Tell me, what parent leaves its spiritual, intellectual, and emotional infant children run naked & unattended in an unmaintained backyard garden with wild animals and plants, to include venomous snakes and fruit trees with poisonous produce???

    Really, what parent does that?

    So, go ahead, worship your bitch demon straight from the pit of hell. You don’t worship ‘God’, you worship a fucking book.

  257. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Was it Christianity that ended slavery in the West

    Yes. Christianity (like Islam) prevented Christians from enslaving fellow believers. Once Europe turned Christian, the only slaves that could be procured were from outside Europe.

    or the Enlightenment?

    Enlightenment encouraged strands of Christianity to end it outside Europe.

    And todays Abrahamic religions don’t fight each other? Including between themselves?

    Sure and the various pagan Europeans also fought each other. My point was that Europeans were fighting and killing each other before Christianity, simply over different things. So Christianity didn’t really introduce that kind of continental fratricide.

    I suppose Tribal is normal, at a certain level for us all.

    No, I mean tribes. Real tribes. Christianity eliminated the European tribes – all of them – on purpose:
    “The medieval church instituted marriage laws and practices that undermined large kinship groups. From as early as the fourth century, it discouraged practices that enlarged the family, such as adoption, polygamy, concubinage, divorce, and remarriage. It severely prohibited marriages among individuals of the same blood (consanguineous marriages), which had constituted a means to create and maintain kinship groups throughout history…Among the anthropologically defined 356 contemporary societies of Euro-Asia and Africa, there is a large and significant negative correlation between Christianization (for at least 500 years) and the absence of clans and lineages; the level of commercialization, class stratification, and state formation are insignificant.”
    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.61.3711&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    But officially polygamy should be discouraged, IMHO.

    OK, but you are saying that after centuries of Christianity having already established that culture. Pre-Christian pagans had zero problems with polygamy, the Church had to fight hard to proscribe it among people like the Vikings that had zero problems with polygamy (or even unrestricted concubinage).

    like the Library of Alexandria, or Carthage, seems to have been burned to the ground, and covered with salt.

    Bit confused here, because I’m pretty sure the Roman Empire was responsible for both of those occurrences.

    Why not, if it was on merit.

    Agree 100%. No arguments from me.

    All the more reason I’d think you’d be sympathetic.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying the Roman Empire was some evil enterprise. I was simply saying that what Christianity brought to Europe had some very positive aspects to it and those merits should be recognized.

    They worship Israel in the churches, their ministers and TV evangelists gush over Israel in revolting displays of messianic degradation.

    OK sure, but if we are honest, this is a fairly recent development. Christianity in Europe for the vast majority of its history was simply not like this at all vis-a-vis the Jews or Israel. So, I’m not sure how you can judge an institution (as a historic reality in toto) by only viewing it from a recent lens in history.

    Just my take on it, do with it what you will.

    Or do we need to look elsewhere spiritually

    Well, the water’s fine over here and everybody’s welcome.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  258. Robjil says:
    @Poco

    It is not about ego or anything like that. It is just being in the present. Anyone can do this. Buddhist religion or practice is the first religion or practice that practiced this on a large scale.

    https://aboutmeditation.com/being-present-with-meditation/

    Meditation is the art of cultivating present moment awareness. And it must be cultivated by committing to one of the sitting-based meditation practices that allow for deep stillness to be experienced. The more you practice over time, the more you learn to sustain present moment awareness, and the more you naturally bring that stillness and presence of mind into your daily life.

    • Replies: @Poco
  259. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Laurent Guyénot

    Christianity is a sedimentation of several layers, and at some level, it is strongly anti-Jewish. At the core, though, it is possible to see christianity as a Jewish trick. Having as model a man crucified by Pilate under Jewish pressure is sure to create some kind of “learned helplessness” in front of Jewish Power.

    The story of the New Testament is, on its face, a story of a Jew of the true faith, Jesus of Nazareth, contending with a corrupt and compromised Jewish establishment that is collaborating with Rome in the subjugation of the Hebrew people. Jesus derides these sick and corrupt Hebrews, and gains a larger and larger following. Simultaneously, the fake-Jewish corrupt Hebrew moneychangers in bed with Rome begin a cowardly, ear-whispering campaign against Jesus, and begin laying the groundwork for his crucifixion, claiming he’s a threat to Rome (and as Jew of the true faith, he is!).

    As the story progresses, it begins to dawn upon Jesus just how much corrupt power the moneychangers of the Jewish establishment have both with Rome, and over the citified Hebrew scum of Jerusalem. And not only that, but psychological control over Jesus’ own Hebrew followers. He begins to prophetically cast aspersions on the corrupt Hebrews (who in the text have become “the Jews,” in opposition to what will become “the Christians” — the true Jews of Moses’ and Jesus’ tradition) and even calls out his own disciples (Peter and the story of the rooster, for example).
    https://www.gotquestions.org/rooster-Christianity.html

    I read this as the process by which the corrupt Hebrews/”the Jews” have become irredeemable and, like the murderer Cain, cursed by history (for betraying the values of their national founding). Indeed, when Pilate gives the Hebrew crowds a choice between Jesus and the criminal Barabbas, they condemn Jesus to death and choose Barabbas, and their own fate as an eternally cursed and despised people is sealed (“And the whole people answering [Pilate], said: His [Jesus’] blood be upon us and our children.”)
    https://biblehub.com/matthew/27-25.htm

    It doesn’t get much more “anti-Semitic” (so called, by the evil Zionists — fallen Jews/corrupt Hebrews and their money whores) than that.

    But I’ll go one further. When evil shrew Hillary Clinton called out the “irredeemable” America Firsters, she was knowingly calling out Christian America, and openly announcing that the Deep State and the corrupt Hebrews/Zionists who run it intend to destroy the last vestiges of Christianity and its keepers, not only in American, but over the entire world, via Globalism. Reticent, Zionist compromised Trump is merely holding back the tide of destruction that the twisted left, the warped neocon right and the sick and corrupt Hebrews/Zionists (collectively, ZOG) intend to wreak.

    And all of the useful idiots who are busy slicing and dicing Christianity into irrelevance from both the left and the right are digging not only the grave of Western Civilization, but of the civilized world.

    Someone needs to finish the job that Moses started on these sick, corrupt and insane gangsters and killers. And sooner or later, someone will. But we may need to go through a few more centuries of pain and suffering, first.

  260. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    It would be better if the Muslims leave themselves out of ‘this thing’ if they want to be left out. They only muddy the waters with their arrogant ignorance.

  261. bjondo says:
    @gay troll

    Long time ago I listened to Atwill and some other fellow(s) on Censortube. Decided they weren’t worth any more time.

    Could be wrong. Don’t care enough to search or write more. Any way, out of here.

    A Critique of Joseph Atwill’s “Caesar’s Messiah” By James M. Rochford

    http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/book-reviews/a-critique-of-joseph-atwills-covert-messiah/

    In other’s words:

    “Our judicial system has legalized secret law, secret courts, secret evidence, secret budgets, secret interrogations and secret prisons in the name of national security.” – Ralph Nader

    I would question the use of “national”.

    5 dancing shlomos

  262. AaronB says:
    @Poco

    I’m not surprised. In its way a pretty radical message.

    Its actually the ultimate meaning of Buddhism but it seems that people first have to go through the process of trying to eliminate desire, ego and the like before they can accept it. They have to experience for themselves how that effort only increases ego and desire.

    The real Buddhist message (if you are willing to follow the logic of Buddhism till the end) is to not take yourself – or the world – very seriously. And grand quests of self-perfection are taking thing very seriously indeed. Its actually quite light hearted and humorous.

    But at first, people need grand quests of ego development and struggle before they can accept they have a natural place in the scheme of things that they don’t have to struggle against. So no harm done.

  263. Ano4 says:
    @AaronB

    So then you have Buddhist schools like Ch’an start appearing – characters like Bodhidharma who basically say there is nothing to do whatsoever, nothing to attain, nothing to grasp, no point meditating, etc.

    Did you read Bodhidharma Anthology and the Treaty of Bodhidharma?

    I am asking because what you wrote about Bodhidharma is wrong.

    Bodhidharma gave clear recommendations for self improvement.

    Bodhidharma has also dwelled at large on the nature of the Mind.

    If you didn’t read the books please do, you will learn a lot.

    And please do not oversimplify Ch’an/Zen it only appears simple because it is utterly incomprehensible.

    If you understand something about Zen, then it is not Zen.

    Enough words already…

    • Replies: @AaronB
  264. Ano4 says:
    @AaronB

    That’s why the Mahayana sees the world as a dreamlike illusion – actually killing desire is desire, seeking to get beyond ego is egotistic, etc. These are what’s known as double-binds. A world full of double binds makes no sense

    Talking about Dharma is wasting time.

    Mind is the Dharmadathu.

    This Reality is not different from Mind.

    Cittamatra.

    A friendly advice: stop talking about things you do not grasp.

    About things that cannot be grasped.

    Grasped in words.

    Enjoy the silence…

    🙂

  265. Looks like “Good Guy Guyenot” is at it again, peddling his Judeo-Masonic Anti-Gospel to an eager audience of pagans who only need to hear a few Bible verses taken out of context to be confirmed in their wretched faith. Don’t forget that Guyenot’s dialectic of disparaging the Old Testament while avoiding criticism of the Talmud is essentially Jewish. Jews too will throw the Bible under the bus to protect the Talmud. To say nothing of the Jewish origins of the gnosticism and occultism that he loves so much.

    https://viktortempleton.engrave.website/laurent-guyenot-neo-pagan-good-goy

    • Thanks: Seraphim
    • Replies: @Saggy
    , @giulia
    , @Robjil
  266. AaronB says:
    @Ano4

    Why the urge to complicate things 🙂

    I am aware how common it is to present the idea that there is nothing to do and nothing to attain in all its simplicity, then immediately insist it’s really quite complicated in some mysterious way no one can quite explain.

    All that stuff just feeds the ego – I think its really just a trick. It’s probably not socially acceptable to admit that the teaching is so simple – its very subversive of social rules. So to avoid persecution by the authorities, they had to wrap up the plain message to make it look like it isn’t so plain and simple.

    I read the Red Pine translation of Boddhidharma – here is a clear anecdote describing his views.

    [MORE]

    Emperor Wu: “How much karmic merit have I earned for ordaining Buddhist monks, building monasteries, having sutras copied, and commissioning Buddha images?”
    Bodhidharma: “None. Good deeds done with worldly intent bring good karma, but no merit.”
    Emperor Wu: “So what is the highest meaning of noble truth?”
    Bodhidharma: “There is no noble truth, there is only emptiness.”
    Emperor Wu: “Then, who is standing before me?”
    Bodhidharma: “I know not, Your Majesty.”[34]

    • Replies: @Ano4
  267. The legit Hebrews traveled North and West, and formed what the Romans would later call the Celts. Some of them over the centuries managed to maintain their true identity as either Druidic influenced Celtic Christians in the British Isles, and Huguenots in France. Most people of Huguenot descent are from the original Hebrew tribes that settled in mid to Southern France, and Northern Spain.

    • Replies: @Usura
  268. I don’t know why so many commenters object to Guyenot’s conclusion that Yahwe is Satan. Didn’t Jesus tell the Jews “You are the children of your father. the Devil”?

    • Agree: Robjil
  269. Franz says:
    @CanSpeccy

    in what way did the understanding of the Torah by the Christian imperialist powers differ from the genocidal doctrines of the Jews of ancient Palestine?

    Actually I’m wondering to what extent “Christian” imperialism has often been just a cat’s paw for the Jewish version?

    Michael Bradley notes that 70 percent of the “Spanish” conquistadors were Jewish and that New Spain (the old term for the Western Hemisphere) had more synagogues than churches for the first century after Columbus, et al.

    Yahweh has more to do with point-of-view. Jewish and Christian imperialism is just grabbing land; the cover story of converting the “heathen” was old when Kipling got to it. There were Christian anti-imperialists and Jewish ones too. But like the old Romans who opposed Caesar for killing hapless Gaulish and Germanic migrants, it just seems to shore up the idea that there was some dissent.

    People who kill in Yahweh’s name just think of themselves as Yahweh. That’s what a war god is for. The trouble with rank-and-file Jews and Christians is they think their leaders believe as they do. But the conquistador point of view is: If I want it, it’s gods will. The “flock” will never get that memo.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  270. ivan says:
    @Anon

    Yes one has to read the words of the Old Testament as providential history pointing to Jesus Christ. Which is why Christianity is as much a creation of the Apostolic Tradition as it is of the Bible. Men who interpret the past to justify their belief in Jesus Christ, Such sanguinary events as the conquest of Canaan makes it it difficult to reconcile Yahweh/Jehovah with the much milder Jesus Christ. But one has to recall that the Old Testament is also the history of the ancient Hebrew peoples. One of the great merits of the Old Testament, is that the scribes made no effort to whitewash the past, they wrote it as they saw it. They may have edited it later to present a harder or softer aspect of God and their tribalism. But the one thing that they did not do is to lie as to their feelings.

    Historians such as Arnold Toynbee point to an ‘axial period’ in human history when such reformers of the human spirit such as Socrates, Buddha, Isaiah and Confucius appear. These reformers propose an ethical rather than tribal conception of the believing community. Such breaks in thinking with the tribalism of their past seem so radical that thinkers such as Julian Jaynes, propose that the origin of self-consciousness and by extension the conscience were relatively recent developments : https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072

  271. ivan says:
    @Gapeseed

    Thank you for a succinct summary.

    • Thanks: Gapeseed
  272. ivan says:
    @Vaterland

    You have to live with contradictions if you want to tackle the world in all its complexities and ambiguities. If there is answer for everything you’ll end up like primitive tribes people, whose shamans have an answer for everything and so they see no need to explore a way out of the carapace they are under.

  273. I’m wondering if Mr. Guyenot is familiar with Moshe Weinfeld’s The Promise of The Land, which posits that the accounts presented in Joshua and Kings were fabricated to lend the appearance of divine sanction to Israel’s occupation of Cana’an.

    For Muslims, this isn’t really a problem, since it’s not imperative in Islam to accept The Bible as the inerrant Word of God, even if there’s compelling evidence that portions of it point to us.

    Curious question: Given what we know about how closely-guarded Temple Israel kept the record of Scripture for centuries before it became available to the Christian hierarchy, how might those prophecies alluding to the Prophet and Muslims have been inconspicuously retrofitted into the record so many years after the fact?

  274. ivan says:
    @Hiram of Tyre

    The scribes had an active imagination. This is similar to the stories around the conquest of Troy. Reading Homer one might think that Troy was fortified with impregnable and massive walls. But the digs of Schleimann showed that they were pedestrian affairs.

    • Agree: Hiram of Tyre
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  275. ivan says:
    @Alfred

    They are not even sure if Mt Sinai is in the Sinai Peninsula or further down South in Arabia or Midian.

  276. ivan says:
    @AntoiusOfTheJungle

    Kind of destroys half of the authour’s argument that Yahweh was an unprecedentedly vicious piece of work, when the article’s contention that he demanded human sacrifice is nowhere corroborated in the OT. The OT scribes were not shy of recording anything. If Yahweh had demanded the physical sacrifice of “the first-born”, we can be sure that the scribes would have also recorded the wailings of their mothers, and some stern admonishment to the parents to KEEP QUITE OR FACE YAHWEH”S WRATH IN THE ALL CONSUMING FIRE!!!

  277. Ellen says:

    Although what you state about Yaweh is accurate, you neglected to mention the most important part of the Torah: the Ten Commandments. And the first is Lo tirzach, Thou shalt not kill. (True, in modern Israel that word is translated “murder” not “kill.” But in the yeshivas, religious schools,
    the original meaning is taught. And the ultra-Orthodox men do NOT go into the Israeli army, presumably for that reason. ) The God of the world gave that true commandment in all the major religions, and if humans were wise enough to follow God’s loving commands, humans would not be endangering all humankind with nuclear weapons, etc. , nor would there be the wars, which only humans and ants fight with their own species.
    In other words, the real Jews do follow God’s commandments and should be respected for it, just as do the real Christians, Hindus, and Buddhists, and also Muslims, with some variation. Obviously, sadly, many alleged followers of those religions do not actually follow God’s laws. That is the reason for most humanly caused problems on earth.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  278. ivan says:
    @Seraphim

    I thought the man was a rationalist looking to spread enlightenment via scientific arguments based mainly on the limitations of thought of those early peoples. His being a gnostic would explain many things.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  279. @Laurent Guyénot

    Laurent Guyenot,

    You are a very nuanced and insightful writer. I really appreciate this article for clearing up a lot of confusing ideas the Bible has embedded in my mind. You really made a lot of sense out of this piece of Semitic rubbish. I appreciate it because this rubbish has had such a powerful hold on not just my mind, but the European psyche for far too long. Your reasoning is like a series of laser guided bombs destroying the lies.

    Your point alone about Satan’s offer to Jesus being the same offer yahweh makes to the Jews in the OT was the biggest epiphany on the Bible I have ever had. And I have spent years at different churches studying the Bible. That alone settled it for me: yahweh is Satan.

    Unfortunately such nuance is short circuiting a lot of Christians on here. Christianity really is spiritual malware. I am really amazed and depressed that it has endured this long.

    I think the reason Nazi Germany gets such a bad rap (while the USSR goes scott free) is because National Socialist Germany was the most radical deviation from Christianity Europeans have ever made. This really frightens the jews.

    • Thanks: Laurent Guyénot
  280. @AnonStarter

    I’m wondering if Mr. Guyenot is familiar with Moshe Weinfeld’s The Promise of The Land

    No, I’m not, but the notion that Josiah and the core of the Tanakh was composed around the time of Judean king Josiah is mainstream. Joshua, says Thomas Römer, is a kind of projection of Josiah himself. From my book From Yahweh to Zion:

    Chapter 22 of the second book of Kings tells how Deuteronomy, the heart of the biblical canon, was “discovered” during the reign of Josiah. It was during renovation work in the Temple that the high priest Hilkiah found a “scroll of the Law (Torah)” that he identified as having been written by Moses himself. Historians interpret this narrative as a legend fabricated by priests to pass their new law (Deuteronomy) as the mere reenactment of an old law. Therefore, according to the most conservative biblical science, Deuteronomy dates to the age of Josiah around 625 BCE. The story of its discovery is a pious fraud. From the same period come most of the six historical books following Deuteronomy (Joshua, Judges, Samuel I and II, Kings I and II), which recount the history of Israel from Moses to Josiah. They form what is known as “Deuteronomic history,” as they are cast in the same ideological mold as Deuteronomy—what I more simply call Yahwism.
    But this dating is now being challenged. According to Philip Davies, a representative of the “minimalist” school, the “reform of Josiah” is itself “bound to be regarded as a pious legend, just about possible perhaps, but extremely improbable.” Indeed, it is hardly conceivable that Deuteronomy was written in a monarchy, let alone under the authority of a king, because it is a law code adapted to a theocracy, a country ruled by priests. The entire Deuteronomic history minimizes the royal function, which it depicts as having been only grudgingly granted by Yahweh to the Hebrew…

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
  281. @ivan

    His being a gnostic would explain many things.

    Explain to me what a “gnostic” is, and I’ll tell you if I am one. But if you insist on putting a label on me, I’d rather you call me a theist.

    • Replies: @ivan
  282. Levtraro says:
    @RumpelstiltskinTheGoy

    You see, religions are illogical concepts. They were made to create societal order and to organize human evolution.

    I believe religions came about when humans realized the fact of death. They invented religion to confort themselves with the thought of the afterlife. Later use of religious thoughts to repress was kind of an ancillary outcome.

    Some evidence show that Neanderthals had burial practices so I guess they believed in the afterlife, thus were religious. Other animals such as dolphins, elephants, dogs, may also have religious feelings. I remember one dog in particular, I am pretty sure he believed on DogGod. I have highly speculative and circumstantial evidence to strongly support my opinion of that particular dog (a German shepherd).

  283. Robjil says:
    @Ellen

    There were originally 42 commandments. Ancient Egyptians practiced them for a good afterlife. Ancient Hebrews took ten and did not think about the afterlife.

    http://www.42commandments.com/

    The Ancient Egyptians were more evolved or Alien beings and God gave them the original 42 commandments. The Bible has only 10. Most of the 10 commandments are borrowed out of this list. It may appear that God thought that the children of Israel were only smart enough to carry out some of the commandments from the list or more plausible, Perhaps the children of Israel just picked out which ones they wanted. They left out the commandments that would make for poor warriors. Moses was raised an Egyptian, maybe Moses could of suffered from Dementia or Alzheimer’s disease also.
    The 42 Principles of Ma’at, above are shown above in commandment form. Ma’at was the Goddess who personified the ideals of Truth and Righteousness. These 42 principles were known to all the Ancient Egyptians. These 42 principle have been rephrased here in Biblical Commandment form to make them more intelligible and familiar to modern society. In the original form they were preceded with “I have not” as in “I have not stolen.” as these were from the Book of the Dead. Thou shalt was substituted for (I have not) to turn these into commandment form, The Egyptians believed that when they died, their spirit would be judged by these principle commandments. Moses and the Israelites, who were originally with Egyptians, would have been familiar with these principles, but after wandering the desert for forty years they seem to have only remembered some of these .

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
  284. Seraphim says:
    @ivan

    Troy was not where Schliemann believed to have found it. A discussion arose on another thread. Troy was in England.

    • Replies: @ivan
  285. Robjil says:

    Looking at other sources, the 42 negative confessions are more complex and varied according to the needs of each individual in the afterlife. . The 42 confessions represented the 42 nomes (districts) of Ancient Egypt. The 42 confessions were changed to fit the needs of an individual. There were also 42 Judges too in the afterlife for these 42 confessions.

    The 42 Judges represented the spiritual aspects of the 42 nomes (districts) of ancient Egypt and it is thought that each of the confessions addressed a certain kind of sin which would have been particularly offensive in a specific nome. If the judges felt that one had been more virtuous than not, it was recommended that the soul be justified and allowed to pass on.

    There is no standard Negative Confession. The confession from The Papyrus of Ani is the best known only because that text is so famous and so often reproduced. As noted, scribes would tailor a text to the individual, and so while there was a standard number of 42 confessions, the sins which are listed varied from text to text. For example, in The Papyrus of Ani confession number 15 is “I am not a man of deceit,” while elsewhere it is “I have not commanded to kill,” and in another, “I have not been contentious in affairs.” An officer in the military would not be able to honestly claim “I have not commanded to kill” nor would a judge or a king, and so that ‘sin’ would be left off their confession.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  286. Seraphim says:
    @AnonStarter

    If the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God, how could it offer ‘compelling evidence’ that it talks about Mahomed? Actually it doesn’t.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  287. Saggy says: • Website
    @Viktor Temploton

    You’re confused … you post the vid of Ted Pike decrying Zionism and the destruction of Palestine … but don’t acknowledge Guyenot’s primary point – Zionism and the Torah are one and the same. And in the Torah the genocide is deliberate and directed and blessed by G– himself. The equation is simple Zionism = Torah = genocide, and this genocide is going on today, and is being financed and supported by the US.

    From the OT ….

    [MORE]

    Deuteronomy 7:
    1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are aboutto enter and occupy, and he clears away many nations before you — the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations mightier and more numerous than you — 2 and when the LORD your God gives them over to you and you defeat them, then you must utterly destroy them. Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, 4 for that would turn away your children from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the LORD would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly. 5 But this is how you must deal with them: break down their altars, smash their pillars, hew down their sacred poles, and burn their idols with fire. 6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession.

    14 You shall be the most blessed of peoples, with neither sterility nor barrenness among you or your livestock. 15 The LORD will turn away from you every illness; all the dread diseases of Egypt that you experienced, he will not inflict on you, but he will lay them on all who hate you. 16 You shall devour all the peoples that the LORD your God is giving over to you, showing them no pity; you shall not serve their gods, for that would be a snare to you.

    Deuteronomy 13:
    15 You shall put the inhabitants of that town to the sword, utterly destroying it and everything in it — even putting its livestock to the sword.

    Deuteronomy 20:
    16 As for the towns of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. 17 You shall annihilate them — the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites — just as the LORD your God has commanded,

    Joshua 1:
    1 After the death of Moses the servant of the LORD, the LORD spoke to Joshua son of Nun, Moses’ assistant, saying, 2 “My servant Moses is dead. Now proceed to cross the Jordan, you and all this people, into the land that I am giving to them, to the Israelites. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot will tread upon I have given to you, as I promised to Moses. 4 From the wilderness and the Lebanon as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, to the Great Sea in the west shall be your territory. 5 No one shall be able to stand against you all the days of your life.

    Joshua 6:

    16 And at the seventh time, when the priests had blown the trumpets, Joshua said to the people,”Shout! For the LORD has given you the city. 17 The city and all that is in it shall be devoted to the LORD for destruction. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall live because she hid the messengers we sent. 18 As for you, keep away from the things devoted to destruction, so as not to covet and take any of the devoted things and make the camp of Israel an object for destruction, bringing trouble upon it. 19 But all silver and gold, and vessels of bronze and iron, are sacred to the LORD; they shall go into the treasury of the LORD.” 20 So the people shouted, and the trumpets were blown. As soon as the people heard the sound of the trumpets, they raised a great shout, and the wall fell down flat; so the people charged straight ahead into the city and captured it. 21 Then they devoted to destruction by the edge of the sword all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys.

    Joshua 8
    24 When Israel had finished slaughtering all the inhabitants of Ai in the open wilderness where they pursued them, and when all of them to the very last had fallen by the edge of the sword, all Israel returned to Ai, and attacked it with the edge of the sword. 25 The total of those who fell that day, both men and women, was twelve thousand — all the people of Ai.

    28 Joshua took Makkedah on that day, and struck it and its king with the edge of the sword; he utterly destroyed every person in it; he left no one remaining. And he did to the king of Makkedah as he had done to the king of Jericho.

    29 Then Joshua passed on from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, to Libnah, and fought against Libnah. 30 The LORD gave it also and its king into the hand of Israel; and he struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it; he left no one remaining in it; and he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho.

    31 Next Joshua passed on from Libnah, and all Israel with him, to Lachish, and laid siege to it, and assaulted it. 32 The LORD gave Lachish into the hand of Israel, and he took it on the second day, and struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it, as he had done to Libnah.

    33 Then King Horam of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua struck him and his people, leaving him no survivors.

    34 From Lachish Joshua passed on with all Israel to Eglon; and they laid siege to it, and assaulted it; 35 and they took it that day, and struck it with the edge of the sword; and every person in it he utterly destroyed that day, as he had done to Lachish.

    36 Then Joshua went up with all Israel from Eglon to Hebron; they assaulted it, 37 and took it, and struck it with the edge of the sword, and its king and its towns, and every person in it; he left no one remaining, just as he had done to Eglon, and utterly destroyed it with every person in it.

    40 So Joshua defeated the whole land, the hill country and the Negeb and the lowland and the slopes, and all their kings; he left no one remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. 41 And Joshua defeated them from Kadesh-barnea to Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, as far as Gibeon. 42 Joshua took all these kings and their land at one time, because the LORD God of Israel fought for Israel. 43 Then Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to the camp at Gilgal.

    In short, Zionism and genocide are synonymous, and that is explicit in the Torah. The Jews have hidden the Torah in plain sight, it would be unbelievable if it were not happening.

    • Replies: @Vik Templeton
  288. Ano4 says:
    @AaronB

    This is a misconception.

    Ch’an / Zen is not about quietism or even less nihilism.

    Just attempting to realize Wu Wei without preparing one self for a more or less lenghty amount of time won’t help.

    There is an enormous effort to be accomplished before one can practice shikantaza.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  289. @AaronB

    The problem is that vipaka, the fruit of action, is not something that can be traded like church favours. kamma-vipaka is a strict, unalterable, one-to-one function, that actions entail corresponding results, to the actor. Never does a good action lead to a bad result, when so to say “all of time is played out”. This springs up naturally because the metaphysics of Buddhism is absent, or sunyata if pushed, and if good did something other than good, then metaphysics would appear, as I see it anyways.

    Majjhima Nikaya 136 https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/mn136 deals with the comvolutedness of kamma.

    (iv) “Now there is the person who has abstained from killing living beings here… has had right view. And on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the states of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell. But (perhaps) the evil kamma producing his suffering was done by him earlier, or the evil kamma producing his suffering was done by him later, or wrong view was undertaken and completed by him at the time of his death. And that was why, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappeared in the states of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell. But since he has abstained from killing living beings here… has had right view, he will feel the result of that here and now, or in his next rebirth, or in some subsequent existence.

    “So, Ananda, there is kamma that is incapable (of good result) and appears incapable (of good result); there is kamma that is incapable (of good result) and appears capable (of good result); there is kamma that is capable (of good result) and appears capable (of good result); there is kamma that is capable (of good result) and appears incapable (of good result).”

    I consider the Boddhisatva goal to be a worthy goal for lay people – you can’t reach nibbana outside of a homeless life, and dedicating yourself to become a sammasambuddha in the future is a worthy goal. Really both arahats and Boddhisatvas are necessary.

    I would say that Dhamma is a faith of only religion. It completely lacks ritualistic, mystical, and esoteric elements – which the Buddha specifically declined, and for the most part it deals purely with the individual working on their own experience, not so much the individual and their experience dealing with the other. There is discussion of how to act to others, but it’s still turned around towards the individual goal. It’s very speck over log, to put it into Christ’s words!

    And it is self-defeating, but you are defeating a wrong view, a misconception about experience, and aligning yourself with Dhamma – the true law of experience. But the law of experience is not an amoral nothing, it’s just not a forceful something. Like Huike to Bodhidharma, and as Ano4 says – silence is the best answer for what it is. But you still have to get there, the path is not instant, and both desire and the self feature before the goal is attained.

    • Thanks: AaronB
  290. AaronB says:
    @Ano4

    You are presenting the standard, mainstream Western interpretation – and to some extent, certain Eastern interpretations as well.

    What I am suggesting is that this interpretation is wrong, and can only be maintained by ignoring the internal logic of Buddhist ideas as well as the clear statements of the scriptures.

    Moreover, I am claiming that it was necessary to present a facade of misinterpretation, in both East and West, because the sheer simplicity of the ideas were socially subversive of civilizations based on struggle and effort, and also because the average spiritual aspirant reaches adulthood conditioned by such s civilization to reject anything so simple as letting things be as they are.

    You may reject this, but it makes no sense to just repeat to me the mainstream position.

    • Agree: Poco
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Poco
  291. Benjamin Disraeli (Jew by birth, convert to Anglicanism ) understood that Talmudic Judaism was the worship of Moloch.

    https://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=ControZion&C=21.0

  292. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Franz

    Michael Bradley — is that the author of Chosen People from the Caucuses, which is available used on Amazon at a crazy high price? He sounds like a crank — says that Jews are basically neanderthals! Well some are I suppose.

    • Replies: @Franz
  293. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    Moreover, I am claiming that it was necessary to present a facade of misinterpretation, in both East and West, because the sheer simplicity of the ideas were socially subversive of civilizations based on struggle and effort, and also because the average spiritual aspirant reaches adulthood conditioned by such s civilization to reject anything so simple as letting things be as they are.

    What I am suggesting is that Buddhism – and Taoism – represent rather an undoing of the conditioning that civilization imposes on everyone by the time they reach adulthood, rather than just another system of conditioning.

    Civilization conditions us to tightly repress and control our mental states and emotions, and to artificially develop our desire and egos.

    Buddhism and Taoism comes along and tells us to let all this go – however, most adults conditioned by civilization cannot immediately accept a system which tells them to no longer build anything up, to no longer control and repress, so it must be initially “sold” to them as just another conditioning system, another system to build something up, to control and repress, until the “secret” can be revealed.

    Moreover, upon reaching adulthood in civilization most people have developed an extremely pathological emotional and mental state – telling them to relax and be spontaneous can be misinterpreted by some as advocating acting out their fantasies of control and repression, etc. So for some people, relaxation must come in stages.

    Finaly, civilization itself will be hostile to and persecute anyone who offers an alternative to its core values of control and repression, of effort and growth, that is responsible for the creation of civilization itself, so the true message must be kept somewhat hidden.

    Buddhism and Taoism, like all religion, are subversive and counter-cultural at their core – they are against the normal selfish values of civilization. Therefore there must be a mainstream watered down version acceptable to the authorities, and it’s main message must be kept somewhat hidden.

    That’s why in the West, you had Sufis, Christian mystics, and Kabbalists, all wrapping themselves in a certain amount of mystery and making themselves inaccessible before a certain age and without much practice and study, and generally trying to appease the mainstream authorities – Rumi, for instance, tried to avoid persecution by reassuring the Muslim authorities that nothing he said should be interpreted as contradicting one jot of normative Islam, even though it quite obviously did, and Kabbalists were only allowed to study after having mastered the mainstream Talmud.

    In the East, this counter-cultural attitude was more accepted, but still had to undergo a similar concealment.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  294. Talha says:

    Rumi, for instance, tried to avoid persecution by reassuring the Muslim authorities that nothing he said should be interpreted as contradicting one jot of normative Islam, even though it quite obviously did

    (sigh) For the record… Mawlana Rumi (ra) was a certified Hanafi jurist and mufti of Konya – he was part of the normative Islamic tradition which is why traditional scholars still teach his works:

    Western interpretations of his words to turn him into some sort of acceptable beatnik poet or something have been entertaining, but that’s about it.

    For anyone interested in what the actual spiritual inheritors of Mawlana Rumi (ra) think of all this, they can find their thoughts here:
    “I am the servant of the Qur’ân [man banda-yi qur’ân-am] as long as I have life. I am the dust on the path of Muhammad, the chosen one [muhammad-e mukhtâr]. If anyone quotes anything except this from my sayings, I am quit of him and outraged by these words.” – Maulana Rumi (ra)
    http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/western_views.html

    “The Institute is affiliated with the International Hazrat-i Mevlânâ Foundation, in Istanbul, Turkey. The president of the Foundation is the hereditary and actual world leader of the Mevlevi order–the 33rd Chelebi Efendi, Faruk Hemdem Chelebi, the 22nd generation great-grandson of Hazrat-i Mevlânâ Jalâluddîn Rûmî.”
    http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/about_dar_al_masnavi.html

    Peace.

    • Agree: AnonStarter, Ano4
    • Replies: @Ano4
    , @AaronB
  295. @Seraphim

    If the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God, how could it offer ‘compelling evidence’ that it talks about Mahomed?

    Is this a serious question? You’ve never encountered a book of history that includes both truth and falsehood?

    Curious, indeed.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  296. giulia says:
    @Viktor Temploton

    gnosticism and hermetism have greek roots and come before every jew bullshit, it’s the jew bullshits of the cabalah who copied it.

    study better.

    • Replies: @Vik Templeton
  297. Robjil says:
    @Viktor Temploton

    Guyenot is a great messenger about the dangers of the Old Testament. It is what it is. Christians are especially in danger since they have the Old Testament as part of their religion. For real Christians, the Old Testament has “ended”. It does not continue forever to terrorize the world with such antics as “seven nations to destroy” or “Amaleks to kill” for Israel or JSI (Jewish Supremacist Inc.).
    The newest trick on the block is use the Old Testament hook to capture Christians and make them total Zion Zombies for Zion uber alles. It is called Noahidism.

    http://www.religionwatch.com/noahides-seen-as-useful-allies-for-zionists/

    Christians often take the OT too seriously and this leads then to Zionism.

    The global growth of the Noahide movement, which consists of ex-Christians seeking to follow Jewish law and monotheism, has come to the attention of Jewish leaders who are trying to build support for world Zionism, but there are sharply differing views on how Jewish these new believers can be.

    Thousands of ex-Christians have become Noahides (Zion Zombies) with OT hook.

    Rachel Z. Feldman in the journal Nova Religio (22:1). The Noahide movement has grown to “tens of thousands” worldwide, as ex-Christians encounter forms of Jewish learning online. The movement has gained currency especially among those attracted to Judaism in the developing world who lack the resources and access to formally convert to the religion.

    In the Philippines, there are a few villages with these Noahides. Jewish leaders hover over these converts like slave masters. These converts can not do anything or think anything on their own without the Zion head master telling them that it is “OK”. It bit like Mad Albright ruling the roost.

    Feldman focuses on the 2,000-member community in the Philippines and how Noahides have been “adopted” by Jewish leaders even as they counsel members that they cannot become Jewish and devise new rituals, which carry a strong Zionist thrust.

    The “Evangelical” game is the main hook to get new Noahides (Zion Zombies).

    In the Philippines, as elsewhere, Noahide believers consist of “evangelicals” who usually travel through messianic Judaism or a group known as the Sacred Name Believers, which started in the U.S. and consists of Sabbath-keeping churches searching for the Hebrew roots of Christianity.

    • Replies: @Vik Templeton
  298. “This is what rock bottom of European history looks like.”

    You do realize that you don’t reference a single passage of scripture to advance your position.

    No doubt and without question there is a history of various “christian” leaders acting as though there is a mandate from Christ or the Apostles to condone, support and give in to anything an everything Israel does in the name of some spiritual mandate to some blessing.

    Problem: nothing in scripture supports it. What scripture says in the short rendering. Salvation came from the Jews in the form and name of Jesus and we should attend to Jews in need out of that respect. But more than anything the gift to be bestowed if Christ himself. And that mandate is clear and expected as instruction – not only for the sake of jews but for that of humanity period.

    Nothing about the walk if any christian is bound to support Jews or Israel in violation of international laws and absolutely no conduct that violates the walk Christ has called all christians. I can support Israel, love Israel, without supporting abuse of any other people. I can support a defense of Israels existence without disregarding the internationally recognized principle of territorial boundaries and how one comes about the same. My walk with Christ is not depndent on what jews do or don’t do or my support — a walk with Christ is one with Christ, whether Jews or anyone else chooses to walk that direction. Which is why in response to the author, to christians, to Jews . . . i lean in the direction of what scripture has layed out in its proper context — and that can be hard to comprehend.

    So if in fact there is a mandate for christians to subjugate themselves to Israel or Jews i would look to the foundations of christianity to support it and no scripture makes that case.

    In fact, it’s very clear that when christians (usually jews that have converted) attempt to impose the traditions, practices, expectations and even the law of he old testament on non jewish christians — the Apostles roundly reject any hint that such is proper or mandated by Christ. There is a particular argument between Peter and Paul on this very issue. And Peter conceeds that pail is correct — no such mandates can be imposed. And it’s valuable to note that among the Apostles, pul was the more studious and academic himself having been a member of the elite jewish leadership a student, teacher, practitioner and enforcer of Jewish law before his conversion.

    Paul was a pharisee, who categorically denied and rejected that being jewish, even after conversion was in any way a superior position.

    If you can locate scripture that contends otherwise, I would entertain your position.

    appreciated your comments

    • Replies: @Gapeseed
  299. Ano4 says:
    @AaronB

    Do you think that if an utterly neurotic person just “sat and relaxed ” and “did nothing ” his/her psychological ailments would simply disappear?

    Now what about a psychotic person?

    What about a psychotic person born and raised by a psychotic family?

    A psychotic family living in schizoid society?

    A schizoid society being part of a batshit crazy civilization?

    A sick civilization being part of a completely pathological evolution going back one billion years?

    Just “sitting relaxing and doing nothing” in the “here and now” will miraculously undo the damage that is written in the fabric of the universe itself?

    Then just do it and enjoy the results.

    But until you do, try reading and thinking deeply about this man’s life:

    He was a great Bodhisattva, possibly the greatest Ch’an teacher of the last 200 years.

    It took him more than 50 years to reach Enlightenment.

    He went through tremendous sacrifice with an outstanding dedication to the Dharma.

    But he probably was practicing according to “Mainstream Western understanding “.

    Someone should have told him that all he he needed to do is “to chill out” and “let go”…

    Be well and good luck with your practice.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  300. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Was it Christianity that ended slavery in the West

    Yes. Christianity (like Islam) prevented Christians from enslaving fellow believers.

    Someone should have told the English

    Britain’s famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbor.

    The Irish slave trade began when 30,000 Irish prisoners were sold as slaves to the New World. The King James I Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

    Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

    From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

    “In Feudalism, there were various forms of status below the Freeman that is known as Serfdom (such as the bordar, villein, vagabond and slave) which could be bought and sold as property and were subject to labor and branding by their owners or demesne.”

    “Central Europe was the most favoured destination for importation of slaves alongside Central Asia and Bilad as-Sudan, though slaves from Northwestern Europe were also valued. This slave trade was controlled mostly by European slave traders. France and Venice were the routes used to send Slavic slaves to Muslim lands and Prague served as a major centre for castration of Slavic captives.[6][7]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_slavery

    Enlightenment encouraged strands of Christianity to end it outside Europe.

    I’d go one further. I’d suggest that when mankind began to see himself apart from the organized religious dogmas, (that tolerated or even mandated slavery), he began to glimmer that all individuals are entitled to a certain (God given?) dignity.

    That’s my theory. And it seems to comport with the historical record. Once Europe became Enlightened, it became enlightened.

    And slavery of any kind, Christian, African or otherwise, was outlawed and banned.

    So Christianity didn’t really introduce that kind of continental fratricide.

    True, but it gave it another element. In the past, nations and tribes fought over territory and ascendancy, but it took Christianity to get Europeans to slaughter each other over interpretation of dogma. And burn their people at the stake, for failing to properly submit to the mortal priests of the day. It was Christians who burned people like Joan of Arc, alive. I don’t recall such practices in ancient Greece. It’s said to have happened in Rome, but the accounts are vague. But was a very widespread practice in Christian Europe, and even of course the Americas, with the burning of “witches”.

    Such atrocities are now incomprehensible, and I’d suggest that is in part to the Enlightenment, no?

    Indeed, one day man will come to understand that it is wrong to make animals suffer, for profit or amusement, because they too are entitled to a kind of dignity. Killing them for food, is one thing, but cooking them alive, or using them in experiments, that are beyond cruel, is an enormity, and a sin against nature. (at least as I see it ; )

    No, I mean tribes. Real tribes. Christianity eliminated the European tribes – all of them – on purpose:
    “The medieval church instituted marriage laws and practices that undermined large kinship groups…

    I don’t know about that Talha, what are the Teutons and the Saxons and the Celts and Franks and so forth, if not the tribes of Europe. What, if not a tribal war between the modern Brit and Jew, vs. the modern German, were the World Wars?

    Christianity may have banned tribes, but that’s like banning dogs from belonging to different breeds. You can declare by fiat that a Doberman is a Chihuahua is a Labrador, but that doesn’t make it so.

    Pre-Christian pagans had zero problems with polygamy, the Church had to fight hard to proscribe it among people like the Vikings that had zero problems with polygamy

    Heavens to Betsy! Say it isn’t so!

    Bit confused here, because I’m pretty sure the Roman Empire was responsible for both of those occurrences.

    Yes, they were. And I consider the Burning of the Library of Alexandria to be one of the blackest stains imaginable upon Rome. A crime against man’s reason. An attempt to destroy truth, and replace it with man’s lies. Power over rationality. The same thing happening today, as sites like the Unz Review are banned in the public square, for nothing more than ideas that don’t comport to the narrative preferred by men in power. We’re retuning to the jungle, at break-neck speed.

    what Christianity brought to Europe had some very positive aspects to it and those merits should be recognized.

    Agree 100%

    When I go into those Cathedrals in Europe, I’m in awe. The church steeples and Cathedral spires, just like the Minarets, are for me humanity’s aspiration towards their Creator, and a sublime attempt to reach towards something better. Something heavenly. The best of what they are.

    Christianity can flower in the human spirit in ways that inspire a love of God, and His beauty, and respect for His creation. When it’s at its best.

    I just lament what I see today, a civilization in free-fall, with its “Christian” spiritual leadership leading the way to the abyss. Shekels clinking under their frocks, and rainbow flags unfurled and adorning the churches and even Cathedrals in a homage to their new (((god))).

    OK sure, but if we are honest, this is a fairly recent development. Christianity in Europe for the vast majority of its history was simply not like this at all vis-a-vis the Jews

    LOL

    Or the Muslims (or homos) for that matter. But ((they’ve)) managed to rot the soul of Christianity with their counterfeiting machine, (which I don’t have to tell you about ; )

    And today it’s as if Christians not just selling the children of Europa, as slaves to Globohomo, but they’re selling the very souls of Christendom, and betraying it to its most ancient and intractable enemy, (for shekels, of course ; )

    So, I’m not sure how you can judge an institution (as a historic reality in toto) by only viewing it from a recent lens in history.

    Please understand Talha, this is kind of how I see our plight today

    thoughtfully reflecting on the nuances of theological minutia, we don’t have time for anymore.

    The Beast is in the Cathedral, and his minions are sawing at the pillars. The edifice is about to come down. When they claim cash is causing the virus, and outlaw it’s use, that will be all she wrote, Sir. The fat lady will have sung. And universal slavery will be the order of the day.

    Well, the water’s fine over here and everybody’s welcome.

    I’ve been talking to other Muslims, I suspect of the Shia school, and I’d like to try to act as a mollifying force for Islam. As a sort of aspirational human ark of a new covenant, between Shia and Sunni. A conduit and keystone.

    It is my sincere desire to see the two rivals find common ground, and put away their fratricidal disputes, and concentrate on our collective enemy, that uses them so poorly, (just as it uses my people) to rain so much death and misery in the Holy Land and beyond.

    We all need to make common cause, Shia, Sunni, Christian, gnostic, pagan, humanist, Buddhist and everyone else, to battle the Beast, that is dividing and conquering us all.

    That is my humble role, and what I’m being called to.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: Talha
    • Replies: @Robjil
  301. Ano4 says:
    @Talha

    (sigh) For the record… Mawlana Rumi (ra) was a certified Hanafi jurist and mufti of Konya – he was part of the normative Islamic tradition which is why traditional scholars still teach his works

    I was going to write something along these lines about Mowlana Rumi to our friend AaronB, but given that I am not a practicing Muslim, I refrained.

    As a Muslim you are clearly better placed to inform him about your faith.

    All I want to say is that I agree with you.

    Rumi, Ibn Al Arabi, many other Sufi Sheikhs were pious devout Muslims.

    They were exemplary Muslims.

    Most people in the West have a very strange opinion of Eastern Orthodoxy, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism etc.

    They basically imagine things to fit their distorted imagination.

    Wa Salam!

  302. AaronB says:
    @Ano4

    Do you think that if an utterly neurotic person just “sat and relaxed ” and “did nothing ” his/her psychological ailments would simply disappear?

    Yes. I believe neuroticism is a disease of civilization – of control and repression and rejection.

    A sick civilization being part of a completely pathological evolution going back one billion years?

    The pathology is one of control and repression – it is cured by relaxing.

    Just “sitting relaxing and doing nothing” in the “here and now” will miraculously undo the damage that is written in the fabric of the universe itself?

    I don’t believe there is such damage. The problem is our interference.

    Then just do it and enjoy the results

    I have. They are good 🙂

    Someone should have told him that all he he needed to do is “to chill out” and “let go”…

    He probably knows that, and is just using “skillful means” to help people like you. As I said, adults conditioned by civilization are unlikely to accept the message initially – they need to have it packaged for them in terms familiar to their conditioning.

    But this is a cognitive block only.

    Anyways, thank you for your take. I completely understand and am highly sympathetic to the fact that most people raised in civilization cannot accept this message at face value initially – in fact, that is one main purpose of the “training”. Gradually, you see the self-defeating nature of trying to “achieve”.

    Good luck.

  303. Rurik says:
    @Gapeseed

    First, this article and discussion lose sight of the time frame in which God makes Himself known to mankind

    I would posit that God makes Himself known to mankind if they simply open their eyes.

    It is an evolving and unfolding relationship of gradual revelation over thousands of years, reflecting some very hard times when the inhabitants of Judea and Israel were subjugated or dispossessed

    don’t you have eyes?

    If you did, you’d see that it’s right now, in front of your eyes, that the “inhabitants of Judea (Palestine) are being subjugated and dispossessed. Duh.

    Do you really have to go back thousands of years to see moral atrocities in the Holy Land, when they’re happening right now! In front of humanities (tightly closed) eyes?

    With the confidence that they are Chosen and incomplete notions of the afterlife and individual judgment, they have taken a long but material view with strong in-group preferences, and thus rise or sink together. And it’s hard to knock the earthly results –


    you’ll forgive me if I’ll ‘knock the earthly results’, all day long. I don’t find it hard at all. In fact, what I do find difficult, is trying to understand how anyone can look at what’s been wrought on the planet’s people in these last two decades of Jewish supremacism run amok, and say their works (Eternal Wars, moral sewage, cultural rot, ethnic strife, Police State tyranny, as far as the eye can see..) are ‘hard to knock’.

    – this backwater tribe has flourished over time to its preeminent position today.

    You’re gushing. It’s unseemly.

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin
    • Replies: @Gapeseed
  304. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Its really a question of judgement.

    It is an undeniable fact that Rumi did insist he was completely orthodox – the very fact that he had to make such a proclamation makes clear there was some ambiguity there.

    Whether one thinks that Rumi is reconcilable with mainstream Islam, or Rumi was just trying to appease the authorities, is a matter of personal judgement. To each is own.

    As a mainstream Muslim it’s clear what your opinion is – more power to you.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  305. Gapeseed says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    So if in fact there is a mandate for christians to subjugate themselves to Israel or Jews i would look to the foundations of christianity to support it and no scripture makes that case.

    This is the heart of the matter and you’ve done a good job in your post of delineating the proper Christian response – charity to all, but not to the extent of subjugating ourselves to an unquestioning support of Israel (or really, anyone) without Scriptural support.

  306. Very enlightening .

  307. Robjil says:
    @Rurik

    Cromwell was trying to make Ireland a new Israel. That timing of that Irish slavery was the time of this plan. Fortunately, it did not go through in the end. Since 1917, Palestine and, the world in general, would have go through the same horrors for a new Israel.

    Mentioning Cromwell and Ireland in the same sentence often makes Irish people wince and grimace and horror, but the opposit holds for British Jew… not that the Jews of England supported or even knew of the massacres perpetrated in the name of Puritanism, in Ireland.

    In 1656, Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England, failed to resolve the English Jewish question: should Jews be admitted to England as full citizens? Instead In 1656, political theorist James Harrington made a startling proposal to him – lease Ireland in perpetuity to the Jews, having removed the Anglo‐Irish landlords.

    In the first of a two parter, Katherine Stafford, in a talk at Dublin’s Jewish Museum, teases out the background to Harringtons unorthodox proposition.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  308. @AaronB

    the very fact that he had to make such a proclamation makes clear there was some ambiguity there

    Not at all.

    What such a proclamation makes clear is the fact that Rumi was conscious of the potential misunderstanding of his words and you present nothing to suggest otherwise. Projecting upon him a deviation from Islam is simply the product of your own imagination.

    Of course, given your track record of such projection, it’s clear what your opinion is.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  309. Talha says:
    @Ano4

    As a Muslim you are clearly better placed to inform him about your faith.

    Even some Muslims don’t get it right; which is why I thought it best to directly cite the most authoritative source on the matter – the group that represents the direct heirs of his spiritual path (or tariqah as we call it). Since my own teachers are from the Naqshbandiyyah, I thought it best to let the Mevlevi Order speak for itself.

    Rumi, Ibn Al Arabi, many other Sufi Sheikhs were pious devout Muslims.

    Shaykh Ibn Arabi (ra) is probably done a worse disservice than Mawlana Rumi (ra) to be honest. The man died with a copy of Imam Ghazali’s “Ihya Uloom ad-Din” (Revival of Religious Knowledge) on his lap.

    They were exemplary Muslims.

    No doubt. I don’t know if you’ve come across one of the great spiritual masters of North Africa (Shaykh Ibn Ata Illah [ra]), but he was both a renowned Sufi teacher as well teaching religious knowledge at both al-Azhar and al-Masuriyyah institutes during the time of the Mamluks.

    They basically imagine things to fit their distorted imagination.

    Ultimately, everyone is free to see fit where they get their information from and what they trust, someone like me can only point out the wide discrepancies between what many Westerners think on a certain subject like Mawlana Rumi (ra) versus what those who have actually rolled up their sleeves, tightened their belts and lost thousands of hours of sleep over actualizing his spiritual teachings in their lives, generation after generation. These are not things you learn from books, but states one acquires by sitting and the feet of those who learned them at the feet of others. In fact, men like Shaykh Ibn Arabi (ra) warned people not to peruse his books (or those of the Sufis in general) without first understanding the discipline and its terms and phrases under a reliable spiritual teacher.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  310. “This is the heart of the matter and you’ve done a good job in your post of delineating the proper Christian response – ”

    Very generous of you . . .

    excuse my hesitance on the matter of “charity” There are times when they are able to brush the dust from our feet and move on. And I think christians should consider that given the vast amounts of giving we provide and are wholly rejected by those to whom it is given.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  311. @EliteCommInc.

    correction:

    And I think christians should consider that given the vast amounts of giving they provide and are wholly rejected by those to whom it is given.

    • Replies: @Gapeseed
  312. @Anon

    That ‘god’ would threaten me with eternal torment says more about ‘god’ than it does about me attempting to use whatever modest rational skills I was given.

    Dear Disclaimer No, the truth is that God desires the salvation of all and dispenses sufficient grace for all to attain unto salvation but you refuse His Grace and, as a result, you are already in the anteroom of Hell on earth and it is all your fault, not God.

    You are essentially the epitome of a liberal – you blame everyone else – School, Bible God – for your own hateful existence.

    God is Mercy, Justice, and Sovereign liberty and you hate Him and do not want to have anything to do with Him and God, who keeps you in existence now in His providence, will give you what you desire most – eternity apart from Him.

    Let Jesus love you by becoming as a child. ASK Him

    Ask Him to come into your heart and soul
    Seek Him with your whole will and intellect
    Knock and He will open His door

    God, who created you without your permission, will not save you without your cooperation.

    Repent while you still have time. In Hell, there is noting but hatred purified and perfected. In Hell, you will hate Satan, the fallen angels, all others in Hell and your own self.

    That hatred is unending

    You were not created for Hate but for Happiness

    • Agree: Gapeseed
    • Replies: @Anon
  313. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    So that substantiates that there was some ambiguity there.

    Anyways, I’m not interested in pressing the point. I think it’s important that Rumi remain palatable to Muslim authorities, and continues to be available to people born Muslim who are receptive to his work.

    Rumi knew what he was doing by ensuring his message would not be banned by mainstream Muslim authorities. He ensured his message would be there for those who would be receptive to it.

    Its good that mainstream Muslims like you and Talha consider him within the orthodox fold, and accept his words at face value.

    So carry on, please.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  314. @Ano4

    Those who actualise the teachings of the Quran and who models their lives on the actions of the putative perfect man, Mahomet, (Pedophile, Caravan Raider, Jew Killer, psychotic epileptic and wife beater) by terrorising and killing Kaffirs are the most faithful adepts of Mahometanism

    • LOL: Talha, AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Ano4
  315. Fox says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    Is the god throughout the Biblical narrative, first in the Old Testament, then in the New Testament consistently the same? You seem to think so, I don’t. I think your faith is bound to Yahweh while as a post-1964 Catholic you believe that your Book is the New Testament.
    When I was about 11 years old, a Catholic Priest said that for the Catholic Church only the New Testament was of doctrinal importance while the Old Testament was only providing commentary and references. This is a while ago, and I am not a theologian, but it is one of the important things that stuck in my mind and the developments in the Church rather suggest that things have been turned around and Jesus has become a commentary character to the Old Testament with all its disturbing foibles.

  316. Rurik says:
    @Robjil

    Cromwell was trying to make Ireland a new Israel.

    wow, Robjil

    Cromwell was our Woodrow Wilson.

    I occasionally find myself hoping that there really is a Dante’s ninth.

    • Agree: Robjil
  317. Skeptikal says:
    @Daniel Rich

    I noticed that “somewhat.”
    Either you feel horrified and disgusted, or you are OK with the whole shtick.

    I really don’t think there is room for “somewhat” when you hear your infant screaming in pain.

    My stomach seizes up just reading about it.

  318. Gapeseed says:
    @Rurik

    I would posit that God makes Himself known to mankind if they simply open their eyes.

    I’m inclined to agree, but some people need more prompting.

    If you did, you’d see that it’s right now, in front of your eyes, that the “inhabitants of Judea (Palestine) are being subjugated and dispossessed. Duh.

    Do you really have to go back thousands of years to see moral atrocities in the Holy Land, when they’re happening right now! In front of humanities (tightly closed) eyes?

    In the context of the development of the Old Testament, what is happening now is irrelevant. Also, while I don’t doubt that there is a great deal of suffering happening in the Middle East, I firmly believe that the United States ought to keep out of it, regardless of sides. It is none of our business and we have proven utterly incapable of sorting it out regardless.

    you’ll forgive me if I’ll ‘knock the earthly results’, all day long. I don’t find it hard at all. In fact, what I do find difficult, is trying to understand how anyone can look at what’s been wrought on the planet’s people in these last two decades of Jewish supremacism run amok, and say their works (Eternal Wars, moral sewage, cultural rot, ethnic strife, Police State tyranny, as far as the eye can see..) are ‘hard to knock’.

    – this backwater tribe has flourished over time to its preeminent position today.

    You’re gushing. It’s unseemly.

    If you live with a materialist mindset, why would you not want to be in a preeminent position?

    I’m not gushing. As the saying goes, it is what it is. I’m a Catholic and am perfectly fine with my lot, thank you, while acknowledging that it could, materially, be better. The focus on the macro material leaves us not as focused on the more important micro spiritual.

  319. @AaronB

    So that substantiates that there was some ambiguity there.

    Only to those who lack familiarity with Rumi.

    It’s much like cherry-picking a translated verse from The Qur’an without consideration of the whole in an effort to interpret that verse. Such selective reading doesn’t constitute genuine scholarship in any real sense of the word. Rumi was certainly aware of the potential for academic charlatans to distort his teaching, which explains the quote that Talha provided.

    The cited passage, then, is directed not at mainstream Muslim authorities, but individuals who attempt to remove him from the fold of orthodox Islam, such as you.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  320. anonymous[905] • Disclaimer says:

    Just look at what the white christian pagan godless psychopathic terrorists have wrought on muslims. Your lands will face their just comeuppance someday, God willing.

    According to recent research, the number of Muslims who died in conflict and wars in the last 25 years has reached 12.5 million.

    https://www.dailysabah.com/world/2018/04/21/at-least-125m-muslims-died-in-wars-in-past-25-years-expert-says

  321. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    …but individuals who attempt to remove him from the fold of orthodox Islam, such as you.

    I don’t. I want Rumi to remain firmly within the fold of orthodox Islam 🙂

    And when your faith sees better times again, I hope the message of Rumi spreads its influence widely across Muslim lands.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  322. Gapeseed says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    And I think christians should consider that given the vast amounts of giving they provide and are wholly rejected by those to whom it is given.

    I don’t think hearts and minds are often changed quickly, both for the giver and recipient of the charity. It may only be in retrospect that a recipient understands the beauty behind an act of charity and is changed as a result. Meanwhile, the fact that these discussions concerning charitable ingratitude are increasingly had between Christians might be a bellwether for a greater discernment on to whom charity is bestowed.

  323. Rurik says:

    but some people need more prompting.

    I guess so!

    In the context of the development of the Old Testament, what is happening now is irrelevant.

    wow

    And the Holocaust, was that also, irrelevant?

    If mass-murder and genocide are irrelevant in the Holy Land today, all based on the teachings of the Old Testament, then of what relevance is the Old Testament to anything? If not what the followers of the Old Testament believe, and are practicing today?

    Shouldn’t you be telling the Jews at the wailing wall, that what they’re doing and hoping for, is irrelevant to the Old Testament? And that the ‘third temple, is irrelevant. And that Zionism, is irrelevant. And Jerusalem, is irrelevant, as far as anything actually going on today?

    If what’s happening today, is all irrelevant to the Old Testament, does that also mean that the New Testament is also irrelevant?

    It is none of our business and we have proven utterly incapable of sorting it out regardless.

    Well, it seems like we did a pretty good job of ‘sorting out’ Libya, and Iraq and Syria. Are they now also none of our business? As we hand unlimited arms and funds to one side of the conflict, is it fair to say we should stay out of it? Isn’t that like how we were arming England in WWI, and claiming that we were ‘staying out of it’?

    Maybe since we’ve taken over England’s empire, we should also unfurl the flag of a proud new banner for New Perfidious Albion ?

    Because it sort of sounds like that’s what you’re advocating.

    If you live with a materialist mindset, why would you not want to be in a preeminent position?

    there’s sort of theme, or undercurrent I’ve been noticing of late. It’s sort of a knee-jerk tendancy to a kind of cartoon ‘black and white’ version of reality, that people seem to prefer, to a nuanced understanding of our lives and reality.

    If you don’t hate Donald Trump, then that automatically means = that you love him.

    There’s nothing in between, you see?

    If you don’t agree with BLM, that all white men are racists, and all black men are victims, then it can only mean that you must hate all black men. Right? There is, and can be no room for nuance.

    And similarly, if you don’t claim yourself as a devout member of an organized religion, then it can only mean that = you’re utterly materialistic, and devoid of any kind of depth or spirituality, because you’re a pantheist or agnostic or indifferent to any labels whatsoever. And you worship your God or Gods in your own way. Heresy! Blasphemy! Apostasy!!!

    No, just going my own way.

    But many people’s minds can not accommodate themselves to such nuance. It has to be black and white. Either you’re a Zionist, or you want to push all Jews into ovens. As I was just mentioning, this is also I think a problem with the rift in Islam.

    So no. I’m not a simple materialist. I just happen to think there is so much more beyond my philosophies, (as the bard quipped), that I don’t have the wherewithal to know who God is, or what His name is, or what exactly He wants us to do. But I will posit, that if there is a God, that what He doesn’t want us to do is murder innocent people in their own lands, so that we can steal it for ourselves. That, I’m reasonably certain, is not what God wants. Nor would a loving and just God, want us to act like murderous goons, going around and bombing innocent people, in order to impose His will.

    IOW, if there is a God, then His wisdom would be more sublime than a this

    which is a snapshot of the motivating principle of the Old Testament- revealed in a simple photograph.

    I’m not gushing. As the saying goes, it is what it is. I’m a Catholic and am perfectly fine with my lot,

    I’m sure you are, because you’re not the Palestinian boy in the picture, are you?

    And if you were a true Catholic and Christian, you’d have a shed of compassion for that boy, especially knowing that it’s your government that has brought a living hell, utterly to those innocent people’s lives. In the Holy Land of all places, where the Old Testament is irrelevant, huh?

    • Replies: @Gapeseed
  324. “Meanwhile, the fact that these discussions concerning charitable ingratitude are increasingly had between Christians might be a bellwether for a greater discernment on to whom charity is bestowed.”

    My comment here is meant in relationship to what’s given to those who are taking and at the same time advancing a case against the very same in a way that seeks to dismantle the faith, not mere disagreement about the faith itself.

    Luke 10:1-16

    reference:http://www.jeff-jackson.com/religion/Q/Q10.html

    I need to be careful here because it is not my intent to abuse the meaning here as some manner of vindictive, taking my ball and going home — that is not what is at play.

  325. Franz says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Michael Bradley — is that the author of Chosen People from the Caucuses

    Yep. He was a delight to read. Some of his conclusions might seem hit and miss, but he really was nominated for the Nobel Prize in the 1970s. He was one of Canada’s greatest heretics, and heretics are often ragged but right.

    Anyway, I miss him.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  326. Ano4 says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    Yawn…

    Sigh…

    Where did you get the idea that I would care about your anti-Islamic rants?

    If you have a problem with Islam, why don’t you tell Muslims about it?

    Am I Muslim?

    Did you read my previous comments on this thread?

    Anyway.

    Your logic evades me…

    🙄

  327. @AaronB

    I don’t.

    Yes, you do:

    Rumi, for instance, tried to avoid persecution by reassuring the Muslim authorities that nothing he said should be interpreted as contradicting one jot of normative Islam, even though it quite obviously did

    I’m still waiting for you to provide some evidence for this claim. Thus far, you’ve given us bupkis: no links, no citation to authority, nothing.

    And when your faith sees better times again

    If such rudeness is indicative of your faith seeing better times, I’d hate to know what it’s like when things go south for you.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  328. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    I have no evidence. Its my interpretation.

    Islam does not tolerate apostasy or heresy, so any Muslim with radical ideas would have to disguise them.

    Again – we differ on whether Rumi’s mysticism is compatible with mainstream Islam. I think not – you think yes. It’s a difference of opinion – anyone reading this discussion is free to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. I force my opinion on no one – I merely offer them.

    I also think that Talha’s “Sufism” has very little to do with the original Sufis who I love – in both cases, I think it’s a case of mainstream authority trying to neutralize a radically free teaching. It’s understandable, and historically common.

    Again, just my interpretations – feel free to totally disagree with me.

    As for my “rudeness”, O Thin Skinned Muslim, pointing out that Islam is right now at a low ebb – spiritually and politically – and looking forward to its day of recovery, is not rude – its an act of well-wishing.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  329. Eureka! says:

    I’ve heard some obnoxious attacks on the bible but this is tops. Molech and Yawhew are not one, no matter what this morons research told him. Incidentally, that’s what the freemasons think too, Lucifer is the holy spirit. Giving the devil credit for Gods work is the unpardonable sin. The pharisees said Jesus was healing by Beelzebub, and the Lord Jesus said that anyone who blasphemed the holy spirit would not be forgiven. This author is retarded.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  330. Ano4 says:
    @Talha

    Interesting.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @Talha
  331. Gapeseed says:
    @Rurik

    In the context of the development of the Old Testament, what is happening now is irrelevant.

    wow

    And the Holocaust, was that also, irrelevant?

    If mass-murder and genocide are irrelevant in the Holy Land today, all based on the teachings of the Old Testament, then of what relevance is the Old Testament to anything? If not what the followers of the Old Testament believe, and are practicing today?

    And the Holocaust, was that also, irrelevant?

    If mass-murder and genocide are irrelevant in the Holy Land today, all based on the teachings of the Old Testament, then of what relevance is the Old Testament to anything? If not what the followers of the Old Testament believe, and are practicing today?

    Shouldn’t you be telling the Jews at the wailing wall, that what they’re doing and hoping for, is irrelevant to the Old Testament? And that the ‘third temple, is irrelevant. And that Zionism, is irrelevant. And Jerusalem, is irrelevant, as far as anything actually going on today?

    Easy there, my friend. Look at the context of what was written, which responded to an argument about Scriptural interpretation. Mr. Guyénot condensed thousands of years of Scripture into what I argued was a caricature of a God who instead slowly revealed Himself through thousands of years. So yes, all events after the formation of the Scriptures for purpose of the argument are irrelevant, including current and past atrocities. They are quite important but irrelevant in the context of the discussion.

    Well, it seems like we did a pretty good job of ‘sorting out’ Libya, and Iraq and Syria. Are they now also none of our business? As we hand unlimited arms and funds to one side of the conflict, is it fair to say we should stay out of it? Isn’t that like how we were arming England in WWI, and claiming that we were ‘staying out of it’?

    Maybe since we’ve taken over England’s empire, we should also unfurl the flag of a proud new banner for New Perfidious Albion ?

    Because it sort of sounds like that’s what you’re advocating.

    I think we’re on the same page. We seriously made a hash out of the Middle East backing Israeli and Saudi interests, and we should stop.

    So no. I’m not a simple materialist.

    I never called you one. The argument was from the materialist perspective, preeminence is preferred. I was not calling you that at all.

    I’m not gushing. As the saying goes, it is what it is. I’m a Catholic and am perfectly fine with my lot,

    I’m sure you are, because you’re not the Palestinian boy in the picture, are you?

    And if you were a true Catholic and Christian, you’d have a shed of compassion for that boy, especially knowing that it’s your government that has brought a living hell, utterly to those innocent people’s lives. In the Holy Land of all places, where the Old Testament is irrelevant, huh?

    Certainly the boy seems to have suffered greatly, and I think most people would have enormous empathy for him, as do I. My argument was that America has been drawn into ancient conflicts and is in very poor position to adjudicate via armed suppression. There is a decent chance that this boy would not be suffering were it not for American support, so I would withdraw that support. I suppose you would, too.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  332. Talha says:
    @Ano4

    Most welcome.

    Peace.

  333. @AaronB

    I have no evidence.

    Do tell.

    It’s a difference of opinion

    No, it isn’t. It’s decidedly a matter of academic discipline.

    the original Sufis

    Of whom you also possess no knowledge. You wouldn’t know an “original Sufi” if he were speaking to you at this moment.

    As for my “rudeness”, O Thin Skinned Muslim, pointing out that Islam is right now at a low ebb – spiritually and politically – and looking forward to its day of recovery, is not rude – its an act of well-wishing.

    Merely pointing out your rudeness isn’t “thin-skinned” since I’m not personally offended by it. It’s merely an objective description of a comment that has no place in this discussion other than to speak condescendingly about Islam, which is par for your particular course and explains the entirety of your commentary concerning Rumi.

    Be rude to your heart’s content, Aaron. Just don’t take offense when others notice it.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  334. Seraphim says:
    @AnonStarter

    It is true that the Bible prophesied about Mahomed and Islam when it talked about the ‘false prophets who will arise and deceive many’, the “false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves” and who would be thrown into the lake of fire.
    The Koran is entirely a book of falsehoods.

  335. Robjil says:
    @Eureka!

    This criticism of the OT ( Old Testament) has a long history in Christianity. Marcion (95- 165 AD) in the 3rd century thought that the OT God was different than Jesus’s NT ( New Testament) God. Marcion’s criticism of the OT is why the NT canon was developed. This man who was most critical of the OT is the main reason we have the NT today. Thus, it is not anti-Christian to be critical of the OT.

    https://www.westarinstitute.org/blog/marcion-forgotten-father-inventor-new-testament/

    Here is what Marcionites believed.

    Marcionites were pesco-vegetarians who embraced pacifism. Women held high leadership roles, at least prominently enough that critics of Marcionites complained about the role women were playing in the movement. They did not believe the god of Jesus was the god of the Jews. They believed the god of the Jews was a creator god that ruled based on judgment and violence, which Marcion argued by appealing to violent texts in the Hebrew scriptures. Marcion saw the god of Jesus as an entirely new being, a higher god who provided escape from the judgment of this world. Most importantly, Marcionites had something no other Christians had: a canon of their own scriptures.

    Marcion’s criticism of the OT is why the NT was written down.

    We tend to assume the version of Christianity we see today as inevitable, but actually there were many possible ways for Christianity to develop. Christianity may never have become a religion with a set of scriptures at all. Christians may have continued to interpret and reinterpret Hebrew scriptures, rely on oral storytelling, consider themselves Jewish, and so on. The very attitude of Marcionites setting themselves apart from Jews led them to declare a “new” testament, and that has made all the difference.

    Marcion created the first NT. Others later came with competing Canons. In all Marcion, the greatest critic of the OT did a lot to create Christianity as we know it today. Therefore to be critical of the OT is be very Christian. Here are the four big contributions that Marcion gave to Christianity.

    Christians owe the idea of a “new” testament to Marcion.
    Christians owe to Marcion the particular form of the New Testament.
    Christians owe to Marcion the prominence of the voice of Paul in the New Testament.
    Finally, Christians owe to Marcion a Christian identity built on a special scripture all their own.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Seraphim
    , @Eureka!
  336. Robjil says:
    @Robjil

    Correction

    Marcion lived in 95 -165 AD so he would have lived in the 2nd century AD and not 3rd century AD.

  337. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    I guess we’ll just have to disagree on Rumi’s position in mainstream Islam.

    Sorry, I don’t have a particularly high opinion of contemporary Islam – I have never hid that and see no reason why I should. My remarks pale in comparison with what you’ve said about Judaism – and not just contemporary Judaism, but Judaism as such.

    It is certainly relevant to this discussion – which is about the position of Rumi in Islam – to say that far from trying to separate Rumi from Islam, I hope he will become a much bigger and more authentic influence within it in the future.

    Anyways, I am not sure why this is becoming a weird fight over nothing – its that weird hair trigger over-aggression of contemporary Islam rearing its ugly head again. I offered a personal interpretation of Rumi’s position within mainstream Islam, and his potential future position – you disagree. Wunderbahr. No big deal. We’re all entitled to our opinion.

    If you need to calm down go to the Lebanese border and throw rocks at Israeli soldiers or something. It will get some of your simmering aggression out 🙂

    *Ironically, Rumi would not approve of your behavior here AS 🙂

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  338. HBM says:

    The Jewish Covenant is Greek-period fantasy historiography spun out of Persian instructions to colonial overseers, portions of which are extant in Deuteronomy. There was no Judaism before Persian Zoroastrians conquered the Levant. Judaism begins with Semitic paganism under the shadow of colonial Zoroastrianism. It begins to take on its final shape under the Greeks.

    Cities each had a protector deity that was the supernatural king of the city, a “Moloch.” Moloch just means king, so there were lots of Molochs. Semites all practiced sacrifice of the first born, and that includes the Canaanites that would become Jews. Carthage did it into the Roman period; Indo-European Persians likely stopped the practice in the Levant.

    Yahweh was not a ‘war god’; he was a member of the Semitic pantheon, along with others, like Ba’al Haddad and Dagon and Ashera and Mot. This can be seen in a poem called the Ba’al Cycle, from Ugarit, which was a real Semitic kingdom, unlike the fantasy one Jews produced about themselves.

    Yahweh began as fertility and water deity. He was a god of rivers (his title is “Judge Nahar” — the River Judge) and the Mediterranean Sea. Images of Yahweh in the Bible as a Sea Monster, and the bronze serpent he provides to Moses may reflect those origins. El, the over-god of the Semitic pantheon, was worshiped for thousands of years but eventually was supplanted by Yahweh, likely as a result of the Semitic Yah being syncretized with the beliefs of Midian traders, which probably explains his transformation from a water deity to a bull one.

    Yahweh was a water deity for thousands of years before a Jew ever existed; he became a bull likely under Midian influence; he became invisible and a pillar of fire and a burning bush under the fire-worshiping Zoroastrian Persians; he is anthropomorphized, like Zeus, and strolls in the Garden and eats lunch in the Patriarchs’ tents (and eventually impregnates a human female) after exposure to the Greeks.

    • Agree: Hiram of Tyre
    • Replies: @Hiram of Tyre
  339. Poco says:
    @Robjil

    I know a little about buddhism but the couple of a guys I’m talking about were very smug and superior about how they had it all figured out. They struck me as posers that’s all. Not denigrating buddhism but it isn’t for me. I’ve always meditated, long before I had a word for it.

  340. Poco says:
    @AaronB

    Posers. That’s what they seem to me. Look at all this mysterious study required for me to be in the moment, squelch desire, which I desire to squelch, lose my self, conquer my ego. Bah. It’s not that complicated. Accept that it is natural and normal to have a self and ego and desires. Then moderate.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  341. AaronB says:
    @Poco

    Yes, it is just another way to build the ego, all that grandiose talk about conquering the self. It’s often been noted people who try very hard to be “good” often end up deficient in basic compassion and humanity.

    What is astonishing to me about Buddhism is that its internal logic led it to develop into something that superficially appears the exact opposite of its initial premise, but is in fact its most subtle refinement.

    That’s why towards the end in Zen you start hearing things like “If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha!” – basically, get rid of all that self-important mumbo jumbo, stop trying to “become a Buddha”, that’s what’s keeping you back, building your ego!

    Its really quite simple and natural – just be what you are!

    But I think this is s very difficult lesson for civilized man, used as he is to striving, to learn.

    It’s not that complicated. Accept that it is natural and normal to have a self and ego and desires. Then moderate.

    This is good, but I would go even one step further. Don’t try to suppress your ego or desires, but don’t take your self – complete with its petty self and petty desires – so damn seriously. Laugh at your self – and at the world.

  342. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no mosque

    Dear Disclaimer No, the truth is that God desires the salvation of all and dispenses sufficient grace for all to attain unto salvation but you refuse His Grace and, as a result, you are already in the anteroom of Hell on earth and it is all your fault, not God.

    That you would tell me I am in the ante room of Hell presumes you are in a position of judgement. Is it not referenced in The Book, ‘Who are you, a servant, to judge another servant?’.

    You are essentially the epitome of a liberal – you blame everyone else – School, Bible God – for your own hateful existence.

    I’m a lot of things, but liberal isn’t one of them – nice try, however. I’ve spent a good part of my retirement the last 15 years as a carpenter. I get to blame myself for EVERY mistake. Unlike ‘God’, however, I don’t get to blame the materials.

    God is Mercy, Justice, and Sovereign liberty and you hate Him and do not want to have anything to do with Him and God, who keeps you in existence now in His providence, will give you what you desire most – eternity apart from Him.

    Do I hate ‘him’, the god of all creation, or do I just have contempt for the poser you worship?

    Let Jesus love you by becoming as a child. ASK Him

    I’m a Gentile. Jesus once called a Gentile woman a dog when she pleaded with him to heal her daughter. Of course, that was before the chosen children he loved so much killed him.

    Ask Him to come into your heart and soul. Seek Him with your whole will and intellect. Knock and He will open His door

    I have, thank you. Do you want to know his answer? It was guiding me to read the obscenity known as the Old Testament to reveal just how ungodly is the being I was brainwashed to worship. The upside is I read the work of Finkelstein & Silberman, and found to my amusement, that first book was basically a plagiarized lie.

    God, who created you without your permission, will not save you without your cooperation.

    God apparently has hinged a man’s salvation to a game of ‘Stump the Chump’ – and he’ll win it, he always does. The good news, according to you I gather, is that predestination is a thing, so I’m bound to win or lose regardless of what I do – it’s all already in the cards, right?

    Repent while you still have time. In Hell, there is noting but hatred purified and perfected. In Hell, you will hate Satan, the fallen angels, all others in Hell and your own self.

    I repented and accepted Christ in a quiet moment on a Sunday, a winter’s day in 6th grade, in the evening while doing my homework. It’s been a long road getting here . . . all my fault, no doubt, that I faith does mimic yours.

    That hatred is unending

    Who has the energy for hate? Sarcasm and mocking, sure. Really, what’s with you and the drama, with every soliloquy as if you think you’re King Lear on the stage?

    You were not created for Hate but for Happiness

    My hope is that you were as well.

    • Agree: Laurent Guyénot
  343. @HBM

    Bingo. Not many know this.

    The monotheistic cult of Pharisaism (later known as Talmudism, Medieval Rabbinism and today as Judaism) was brought in the Persian Empire as it expanded into Canaan.It’s a mix of stories/concepts/beliefs from Persia, Mesopotamia, Canaan and Egypt concocted to get rid of the polytheistic beliefs in Canaan. A “Divine Law” was required to support the “Civil Law” of the Persian rulers. A Temple State where a tax was to be collected from.

    p.s. The “Greek fantasy” part is something I have overlooked but it makes perfect sense considering how they reworked the stories/concepts/beliefs of others in their own imagination. Most of Greek mythology for instance is based on the Canaanite-Phoenician version.

    _____

    “Persia and the Creation of Judaism”
    https://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/non-iranian/Judaism/Persian_Judaism/Persia_created_judaism.htm

    • Replies: @Anon
  344. Seraphim says:
    @Robjil

    Christians owe the idea of a ‘new testament’ to (would you believe it?)… Jesus Christ.
    “And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you (ἡ καινὴ διαθήκη ἐν τῷ αἵματί μου, τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν ἐκχυνόμενον)”.
    The ‘New Testament’ is what Christ said it is: his testament (διαθήκη), his last will, the promise made to the inheritors of what will happen to his possessions after his death, designating his legatees and the conditions imposed on them to be able to inherit (in that case, who would inherit the ‘Kingdom of God’). The Hebrew Scriptures were part of the legacy, because they were announcing the Christ (“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me”; “Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself”).
    The ‘memoirs of the Apostles’ (the Gospels and the Epistles) and the writings of the prophets were read at every Sunday service, which were well established at the time when Marcion devised his heresy which consisted exactly in denying the prophetic content of the ‘old’ testament for which he was excommunicated forthwith. The idea that he could have played any role in “shaping Christian identity” is patently absurd.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  345. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hiram of Tyre

    It has seemed odd to me since becoming aware of this the last year, that the Jews aren’t more appreciative of the Iranians inventing both their god and religion for their stone aged illiterate Highland Canaanite asses.

    I mean, how much more ungrateful could one be?

    • Replies: @Hiram of Tyre
  346. I am struck by how much the materialism of Jewish spirituality has infected Protestant
    Christianity and particularly Evangelicalism. The evangelicals really have no heaven in the old fashion Christian sense. Their “end time” is a thousand year rule of Christ in which they take over the world and rule. It is really an utterly materialistic sort of after life and given the way they consume now you can bet the shopping is going to be good. I saw a video where one actually talks about how he wants to be environment commissioner for his county after the ME holocaust that changes the world. This is hilarious until you realize that this is what these people call spirituality — upward mobility. They have simply eliminated traditional Christianity’s otherworldliness How far did they have to chase the Jews to get these ideas?

    • Replies: @Hiram of Tyre
  347. @AaronB

    Sorry, I don’t have a particularly high opinion of contemporary Islam – I have never hid that and see no reason why I should.

    Actually, you’ve boasted quite often about your praise of Islam. It’s been something you’ve cited regularly in an effort to present yourself as more tolerant and enlightened than the rest of us plebes.

    But it’s refeshing to finally see some honesty from you.

    My remarks pale in comparison with what you’ve said about Judaism – and not just contemporary Judaism, but Judaism as such.

    No, that’s not so.

    I recall one occasion when, after watching you go on at length about how superior Judaism was to Islam, I provided a satirical summary of your personal interpretation of Judaism, one which you found derisive. It was simply a mirror I held up to you, that you might see your own derision.

    Aside from this sole exception, my approach to Judaism per se has remained almost entirely academic, relying upon passages from the very Scripture you hold to be sacred. I do not make the mistake of confusing Judaism with zionism.

    It is certainly relevant to this discussion – which is about the position of Rumi in Islam –

    It’s not relevant until you can provide evidence for your claim — evidence you unabashedly admit you don’t have.

    Anyways, I am not sure why this is becoming a weird fight over nothing – its that weird hair trigger over-aggression of contemporary Islam rearing its ugly head again. I offered a personal interpretation of Rumi’s position within mainstream Islam, and his potential future position – you disagree. Wunderbahr. No big deal. We’re all entitled to our opinion.

    [laughing]

    Oh, poor, poor Aaron.

    Would you like some cookies and milk, you poor, misunderstood child?

    So yours is just a “personal interpretation,” is it? Like all the other “personal interpretations” that you happen not to preface with phrases such as “in my personal opinion” or “according to my understanding,” but rather, present as if statements of fact?

    This is your routine, Aaron. You make boldfaced claims, stated as fact, then when evidence for them is requested and you can’t provide it, you fall back on the failsafe excuse that you’re offering nothing more than “personal interpretation” and summarily whine about the chimera of your correspondent’s “over-aggression.”

    And even if it were your personal interpretation, how does a challenge to it constitute “weird hair trigger over-aggression” when the implication of that interpretation, if validated, would be highly significant in how we perceive the legacy of Mawlana Jalaluddin Rumi rahmatullahi ‘alaihi?

    Is this yet another example of conduct attesting to that storied epiderm of yours?

    If you need to calm down go to the Lebanese border and throw rocks at Israeli soldiers or something. It will get some of your simmering aggression out

    Wow.

    Now I know I’ve struck a nerve.

    Oh, wait a minute … That’s not all:

    *Ironically, Rumi would not approve of your behavior here AS

    [laughing]

    Get some rest, Aaron. And don’t lose any sleep this time.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Talha
  348. @Anon

    It has seemed odd to me since becoming aware of this the last year, that the Jews aren’t more appreciative of the Iranians inventing both their god and religion for their stone aged illiterate Highland Canaanite asses.

    I mean, how much more ungrateful could one be?

    They’re too indoctrinated to be appreciative.

  349. @Achilles Wannabe

    When you write “infested”, you seem to insinuate that Protestantism and/or Evangelicalism was/were once pure in nature — when it’s quite the contrary.

    Protestantism, Calvinism, Lutheranism, the Society/Order of Jesus (Jesuits), Anglicanism, Evangelicalism, etc were all machinations of a specific ruling class: the Venetian Oligarchy. They were masters are inventing/distorting cults/religions to suit their agenda. The Formation vs Reformation was designed to weaken/destroy the Church and the monarchies of Europe.

    “This was the famous crisis of the War of the League of Cambrai, which was assembled in 1508-1509. The opposing coalition was made up of the pope (by then the Genoese Giuliano della Rovere, as Julius II), the Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I, France, Spain, Savoy, Mantua, and Ferrara. The announced purpose of this alliance was to expunge Venice from the face of the earth.

    […]

    One result of the Cambrai crisis was the decision of Venetian intelligence to create the Protestant Reformation. The goal was to divide Europe for one to two centuries in religious wars that would prevent any combination like the League of Cambrai from ever again being assembled against Venice. The leading figure of the Protestant Reformation, the first Protestant in modern Europe, was Venice’s Cardinal Gasparo Contarini. Contarini was a pupil of the Padua Aristotelian Pietro Pomponazzi, who denied the immortality of the human soul. Contarini pioneered the Protestant doctrine of salvation by faith alone, with no regard for good works of charity. Contarini organized a group of Italian Protestants called gli spirituali, including oligarchs like Vittoria Colonna and Giulia Gonzaga. Contarini’s networks encouraged and protected Martin Luther and later John Calvin of Geneva. Contarini sent his neighbor and relative Francesco Zorzi to England to support King Henry VIII’s plan to divorce Catherine of Aragon. Zorzi acted as Henry’s sex counselor. As a result, Henry created the Anglican Church on a Venetian- Byzantine model, and opened a phase of hostility to Spain. Henceforth, the Venetians would use England for attacks on Spain and France. Zorzi created a Rosicrucian- Freemasonic party at the English court that later produced writers like Edmund Spenser and Sir Philip Sydney.”

    — [“Against Oligarchy, Webster Tarpley]

    While the War of the League of Cambrai failed to destroy the Venetian Oligarchy, it did weaken them. It was then that the Venetian Oligarchy moved north of Europe where they forged alliances with other aristocratic families in Amsterdam and later England. They created the Banks of Amsterdam and England (modeled on Venice’s Banco di Rialto). The British Empire was later created from the vestige of colonial enterprises (Venice, Turkey, Levant, East-India, etc Companies). Israel is another one of their machination.

    The Venetian Oligarchy was also obsessed with “Jewish” mysticism known as Kaballah (even though it’s not Jewish in nature and/or development). That most certainly explains the material aspect you brought up in Protestantism and Evangelicalism.

    _____

    https://archive.org/stream/pdfy–vMPBwiHw_IDIeob/Against+Oligarchy+by+Webster+Griffin+Tarpley_djvu.txt

    • Replies: @Achilles Wannabe
  350. ivan says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    Sir,

    As a Catholic, I understand that a gnostic is one whole believes that the OT God is in fact the Evil Twin of the Good God who created the Universe. I am aware that the relationship of the gnostics and Catholics have not been a happy one.

    http://harvardichthus.org/2010/01/st-thomas-and-the-heretics/

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  351. ivan says:
    @Seraphim

    Everything ends up in England. The Ten Lost Tribes, The Holy Grail, Atlantis, The Secrets of AEgypt. The English : Another people with an overactive imagination.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  352. @Hiram of Tyre

    Yeah, infected was the wrong word. Perhaps rooted would have been better. Maybe infected was a slip. I was raised Catholic but I spent a lot of time in Jewish/WASP schools and cultural settings. The message was Christianity sucks but the sotto voce message was Catholicism was particularly bad. and Protestantism progressive in a default sort of way. NOW I realize that that was just the great Judization process at work The protestant ethic is usury sanctified . Of course today Catholics are just protestants who like statues and they roll over for Jews just like the Protestants. If I was still a catholic I think I would seek out a traditional Catholic sect. Actually I may take a look anyway. I have recently decided that atheism – my atheism – is Jewish. It’s materialism devoid of notions of spirit, honor. I think I would like to rub shoulders with my own kind even though I have long been away. See what happens.

    You’re interested in history so you might appreciate this. There is a series on Netflix called The Medichi – the bankers of the 16th century or whenever. I think they are actually portraying usurious bankers as heroes. Perfect for the Judeo zeitgeist

    • Thanks: Hiram of Tyre
    • Replies: @Robjil
  353. Eureka! says:
    @Robjil

    Marcion mistook his opinion for facts. Jesus came in the fullness of time, and verified the same scriptures. Obviously the religious Jews of that day had distorted truth but it is an insult to God to believe He can’t write a book to humanity. If he can’t, then he’s incompetent and so he’s not God. Man cannot thwart God. You have no faith! and without faith it is impossible to please God. This whole exercise is inspired by satan, a lawyer if there ever was one, and a liar, and a thief.

  354. Robjil says:
    @Seraphim

    Marcion was the first person who attempted to make a canon of New Testament writings.

    http://www.humanreligions.info/creation_of_the_new_testament.html

    Well into the second century, Christians had no concept of a unified collection of texts that represented “the New Testament”4. The Catholic Encyclopedia is forced to admit that the “idea of a complete and clear-cut canon of the New Testament existing from the beginning… has no foundation in history”10.

    The oldest and first attempt to form a verified and canonical collection of writings was that of Marcion, who selected an older version of the Gospel of Luke and ten letters of Paul, in around 150CE4.

    It was not until the Roman Empire’s reunification that more complete and stable versions of Christian texts were produced. Many of these documents are now known to us, and are used to cross-reference our existing versions. As a result we know a great deal about the changes that have occurred over time, including mistranslations and falsifications.

    There is a problem in our time with the Old Testament. We should be free to discuss the problem without the censorship from Youtube, Facebook, Zion MSM or the fear to do so. It is causing lots of trouble these days , bigger than any Climate Change. Christians should address it and try remediate it for the sake of humanity.

  355. Robjil says:
    @Achilles Wannabe

    Antics from the likes of Zion Zombie Pelosi is the reason we have to address the problem with the Old Testament again. Marcion did. We have to get over our fear to do so. Early Christians addressed it. We can too.

    At the Israel America Council’s National Conference Nancy Pelosi put Israel before America.

    “I have said to people when they ask me if this Capitol crumbled to the ground, the one thing that would remain is our commitment to our aid…and I don’t even call it aid…our cooperation with Israel. That’s fundamental to who we are.”

    • Agree: ivan
  356. @Robjil

    #38 Thou shalt not act with guile or insolence.

    I will wager that was the first commandment struck from the list by Moses and his followers.

    Act without insolence or guile? Why not just ask them to stop breathing, instead?

    • Agree: Robjil
  357. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Robjil

    “There is a problem in our time with the Old Testament. We should be free to discuss the problem without the censorship from Youtube, Facebook, Zion MSM or the fear to do so. It is causing lots of trouble these days , bigger than any Climate Change. Christians should address it and try remediate it for the sake of humanity.”

    I agree, and yet, what’s to be done? Speaking as a ‘Christian in Crisis’, as it were, how would remediation be done without yet more apologetics.

    For me, life didn’t begin to change until after decades of confusion, I sat down, told myself that I’m going to pretend that I’ve never heard of anything in that book, and read it cover to cover as if I just stepped off the boat having lived life isolated on an island.

    I told myself that I wasn’t going to allow-in the 3rd party apologetics my head was stuffed with – no, ‘Father/Pastor, what does THAT mean?’. I was going to let the book(s) speak for themselves.

    It was about 1/2 way thru the Old Testament 18 months ago that I started looking for answers to the insanity I was reading.

    The book says what it say, at least to me in English. I wish there were a way to separate Christ from his father in the Old Testament, but thus far I cannot. I read a few books in the Nag Hammadi, hoping it would thread the needle, but it seemed gibberish unless I was going to chase my tail with esoterica and metaphysics – depending on the interpretation of others the entire way.

    Shouldn’t God have spoken plainly to all of his children, in their hearts and to his scribes. Shouldn’t he has spoken so clearly and simply so that ALL of his truths were tailor made to spread like wildfire via oral tradition alone for the illiterate masses, and be so emotionally compelling, having that ring of truth, that the peasants would stone a roving bard should the stories be tweeked generation to generation.

    A loving god that created the universe, it seems to me now, should not need a religion, a sacrifice, a book with priests & rabbis & zealots to ‘interpret’ it – its truths self evident for all who seek them, it should square with the material world, be passed father to son, mother to daughter, to each their given role.

    . . . a dream, I suppose.

  358. Seraphim says:
    @ivan

    Funny that the English rejects that theory which was proposed by a Dutch.

  359. @ivan

    In this case, as I stated in the beginning of my article, I am definitely not a Gnostic: I certainly don’t believe Yahweh–the god who chose the Israelites, of whom the Israelites made up–created the Universe! If you had defined a Gnostic as a spiritualist who interprets resurrection (anastasis) in a non-physical manner, then you may call me a Gnostic. But then, you must also call me a Christian, since Gnosticism is the earliest recorded form of Christianity. Personnally, I don’t care how dogmatic christians call me. Some have called me a Luciferian!

  360. Gapeseed says:
    @Robjil

    Before the quarantine, I was standing at the bar in a conservative gathering where Laura Trump spoke as the keynote speaker. I was more focused on my drink order than what she was saying, which seemed to be a standard stemwinder, until her second applause line for The Don when she touted his rock-solid support for Israel. That woke me up. Her second applause line? For Israel? I looked around. Standing very close to me was an old bull, all sinews and scowl, wearing a prominent Star of David necklace. The gathering was not specifically related to anything Jewish or Israeli.

    There was a question and answer session after the speech. I had been invited as a guest and was friends with the host, so refrained from asking what was on my mind. Now, I regret not asking why support for Israel was so high on the agenda. I regret not asking how such support benefitted us, as a country and as conservatives.

    This unquestioning support for Israel has become something of a given for both parties, and it’s enough to garner applause from the rank-and-file. It makes me wonder why.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  361. Robjil says:
    @Gapeseed

    Douglas Reed noticed this. In his book “The Controversy of Zion” he sums up this book about the insanity of our “officials” that go along with this primitive barbaric way of thinking. Why? It is in the OT so it is OK as Mad Albright would say.

    https://www.controversyofzion.info/Controversybook/Controversybook_eng_epilogue.htm

    page 569

    About how a primitive tribe in the Gilberts in the South Pacific used curses.

    This recounts the author’s experiences, early in the 20thCentury, as a British colonial administrator in a remote group of Pacific islands, the Gilberts, where the people lived in a state of primeval superstition until 1892, when a British protectorate was proclaimed. I find an uncanny resemblance between the curses enumerated in Deuteronomy, which forms The Law of Zionist nationlism today, and the words of a curse an a cooking oven, used by these islands before the British came. The sorcerer, squatting naked in the dark before dawn over his enemy’s fireplace and stabbing it with a stick, mutters:

    “Spirit of madness, spirit of excrement, spirit of eating alive; spirit of rottenness! I stab the fire of his food, the fire of that man Naewa. Strike west of him, you! Strike east of him, you! Strike as I stab, strike death! Strangle him, madden him, shame him with rottenness! His liver heaves, it heaves, it is overturned and torn apart. His bowels heave, they heave, they are torn apart and gnawed. He is black mad, he is dead. It is finished: he is dead, dead, dead. He rots” .

    Now how our “civilized” Zion West uses curses.

    The comparison between this and many passages in Deuteronomy and Ezekiel is instructive in this time when the Talmud-Torah is literally invoked as The Law ordaining such deeds as that committed at Deir Yasin; the statement of the Jewish Encyclopaedia, that the Talmud teaches belief in the literal efficacy of cursing, is also relevant. Such passages always occur to me when politicians invoke “the Old Testament”; each time I wonder if they have read it, and if they comprehend the relationship between these superstitions of antiquity and current events, brought about with their help.

  362. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    Not everything has to be a grand fight lol. It’s quite petty after a while.

    Sometimes its better to just things go, my Muslim friend. This is the next lesson for your religion.

    Now, instead of this ridiculous effort to pick a fight with me let us both go and read our Rumi for the edification of our eternal souls, and more importantly, for the sheer enjoyment of it – the more Muslims who read Rumi seriously, the better.

    I shall settle down with a cozy cup of Israeli wine (or two, or three), and you can put on your most pompous self-important fiercely aggressive Muslim airs and dream of the destruction of Israel – but I don’t think that attitude will survive too long a reading of Rumi, and even you will slowly start to crack a wide grin 🙂

    Now, silly man, go to it.

    As shall I, also a silly man.

    • Replies: @RumpelstiltskinTheGoy
  363. @AaronB

    Sometimes its better to just things go, my Jewish friend. This is the next lesson for your religion.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  364. Rurik says:
    @Gapeseed

    Hello Gapeseed,

    First off, please do try a little harder- if you’re going to quote me, to practice a little more ‘de rigueur when doing so. One of the many charms of Mr. Unz site, is that there is so much leeway for going off script, but when it comes to academic conventions and rites, all the formalities are generally, carefully observed.

    It pained my cranium to read what I had ‘written’, until I realized I was being misquoted. You are of course, forgiven, as I’m sure it was a simple mistake, but do please try a little harder about that kind of thing in the future.

    Easy there, my friend

    You see, that is almost a proper response to your “quote” you posted for what I “wrote”, as your ‘quote’ was repetitive, and weird sounding – but not what I wrote. So you’re responding with a bit of cheek to a quote that’s a misquote.

    Mr. Guyénot condensed thousands of years of Scripture into what I argued was a caricature of a God who instead slowly revealed Himself through thousands of years

    Yes, I realize that was your theme, and your point.

    Mine is that such (with all due respect) is preposterous, and that if there is a God; (Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Jesus, or all of them combined), that the idea that our individual lives, or the lives of millions, (as has been squandered in the Holy Land in the last few years), are irrelevant to Him, then He, would be effectively irrelevant to anything and everything that could possibly have any consequences or effects on any of our lives, or the lives of our children or countrymen or the destiny of our nations and even civilizations.

    IOW humans may drop ten or ten thousand atom bombs on each other- in service to their particular religious or national views, but it seems to me, that in your interpretation of God, that such would be irrelevant- to His thousands of years, or infinitely more, plan.

    Yes? No?

    At what point does a Palestinian child’s life, matter at all to God? Never? Not one bit? Zilch? Nada? Irrelevant?

    And if so, why should a Christian or Muslim have any use for such a God’? If He, doesn’t give a f about them? Or their families or nations?

    So yes, all events after the formation of the Scriptures for purpose of the argument are irrelevant, including current and past atrocities. They are quite important but irrelevant in the context of the discussion.

    What pray, is the context of this discussion, if not the nature and intentions and revealed wisdom of God?

    Are we discussing geological formations that have taken place over billions of years, or whether or not God considers it ok to murder a family so that you can steal their home?

    Is God not interested in the fate of His Holy Land? Whom murders whom? Which tribe wipes out which? What structure sits upon the Haram esh-Sharif ?

    Ironically, all of that does more or less comport to my understanding of the heavens, but I’m not a self-described and practicing Christian, whereas you insist you are.

    And I was raised a Christian, so I know a little about it. And one thing, (if not the main thing) about being a Christian, is compassion for those who suffer, and most of all compassion for those who suffer injustice because of their love for Christ. Just like those Palestinian Christians, who’re being persecuted and genocided in their own lands, because they’re Christians, and not Jews.

    Irrelevant?

    Just as the Bill of Right, is the apex of human and Western civilization, (IMHO)- I’ve always considered the Beatitudes to be quintessentially what it means to be a Christian.

    “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Blessed are they who mourn,
    for they shall be comforted.

    Blessed are the meek,
    for they shall inherit the earth.

    Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they shall be satisfied.

    Blessed are the merciful,
    for they shall obtain mercy.

    Blessed are the pure of heart,
    for they shall see God.

    Blessed are the peacemakers,
    for they shall be called children of God.

    Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

    I don’t remember the ninth one about…

    ‘But don’t expect Jesus to care one whit for any of you, because His interest is only for events over millenniums, and not your worthless, pathetic, irrelevant little existence.’

    I think we’re on the same page. We seriously made a hash out of the Middle East backing Israeli and Saudi interests, and we should stop.

    We’re close, only I would perhaps characterize it a little differently than having ‘made a hash out of it’.

    I’d be inclined to characterize it all as having sold our Christian souls to a fiend, for our thirty shekels.

    We’ve participated in a Satanic (if there ever was one), murderous and genocidal orgy of death, theft, suffering unimaginable, and horrors writ large – to the tune of millions of innocents, slaughtered, maimed, orphaned and displaced. Depleted Uranium that will make the devil grin for generations, as God’s children are born into His world deformed.

    Their parents inconsolable, like those parents forced to listen to their children being raped by Christian CIA operatives in Iraq.

    Yes, we’ve made a hash out of it.

    I never called you one.

    sorry. My bad.

    My argument was that America has been drawn into ancient conflicts and is in very poor position to adjudicate via armed suppression. There is a decent chance that this boy would not be suffering were it not for American support, so I would withdraw that support. I suppose you would, too.

    Yes, thank you. I certainly can’t dispute any of that.

    I’d only add that we’re doing so, on behalf of genocidal Jewish supremacists, deluded by their Old Testament exhortations to murder, steal, lie and cheat.

    And we’ve become their mindless, bloodstained orcs, because of the infinite venality of our leaders.

    So that photo of hyenas, I posted a little while back, isn’t just a perfect representation of the Old Testament god, but what Christianity, (under men like Mike Pence and Mike Pompeo), has come to resemble, as well.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Gapeseed
  365. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    I’ve got to agree with AaronB on this, Bro. It’s not worth a fight. If people want their Deepak-Choprafied Rumi or this stuff:
    “Whirl in the Quantum Field of Oneness”
    https://menla.org/retreat/sufi-dance-of-oneness/

    Let them have it. They can interpret things as they like.

    We just clarify our position (which was simply my original intent, not really more than that) for anyone who is paying attention, that’s all…
    “And we are only responsible for proclaiming the message clearly.” (36:17)

    Also, I hope your fast is not accidentally spoiled in this last stretch*.

    Wa salaam.

    [MORE]

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  366. Archangel says:

    Cher M. Guyénot,

    A few commentaries on your text. According to Mario Liverani, a prominent professor of history of the Near East, the book of Josue was written after the exile in Babylon. Its purpose was to establish a right to land of Israel for those returning from Babylon. They had to displace the Jews that had remained there. An important point is that all the tribes and cities slaughtered in the book are not attested elsewhere hence the story is fictional. That does not lessen the violence in it though. It is also ironical that in the book Josue led the Jews from victory to victory, whereas those returning from Babylon had not waged a successful war in centuries. Shameful for the people chosen by Yahweh Sabaoth, the Lord of Armies.

    The massacre of the Midianites is to be taken more seriously. The Pentateuch is a compilation of old chronicles, stories, folklore, laws. Its weight in teaching far surpasses the book of Josue. Why would Yahweh ask Moses and Israel to slaughter the Midianites ? Numbers indicates that the Jews performed the Lord’s vengeance on Midian. So Yahweh must have had good reasons to want their destruction; like for Sodoma and Gomorha. Instead of raining fire on Midian, he sent the Jews. According to Numbers, he sent an army made of 1’000 men from each tribe and asked them to perform a terrible slaughter. Because such a slaughter binds the perpetrators together; the bond is much stronger than mere loyalty. A modern equivalent would be a gang murdering someone, with each member stabbing the victim repeatedly; or collectively raping a woman. So the massacre of Midian was more than the punishment of Midian, it was a means to bind the men of fighting age of every tribe in a blood bond. A realistic story; cruel but not necessary satanic.

    One last comment. Why does Yahweh promise Abraham and his descendants numerous offspring, wealth and power; why not immortality ? Because paradise was closed. After Adam and Eve were chased away, the gates of paradise were closed. They were reopened after the resurrection of Jesus and because of his sacrifice. So God could not offer Abraham immortality. Hence he offered him then to the Jews the next best. The old covenants and their promise of offspring, wealth, and power became moot when paradise was open again. There is nothing satanic in the old covenants, just God being consistent.

    Thank you for your attention.

    • Agree: ivan
  367. @Ano4

    You’v slipped into solipsism. I responded to you because you inserted Mahometanism into this thread but that does not mean what was written is in tended for YEO.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  368. @Laurent Guyénot

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm

    Of course Gnosticism preceded Christianity but it is entirely opposed to Christianity and only one hopelessly ensnared in error and a false mysticism could claim what you do.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  369. @Robjil

    You first have to see that the Church and its authority preceded the Canon of Scripture which was created as a result of the authority of the Catholic Church.

    Ever notice how many times the word Church is in the new Testament?

    Is is the teaching of the Church that the Old Testament Scriptures were transferred to her ownership by Christ himself in view of her position as the new “Israel of God,” and heir of the OT promises: and that the New Testament Scriptures being written within the Church for some of its members for the benefit of all (or more precisely, within the society of The Catholic Church by Catholics and for Catholics). are likewise her exclusive property, of which she is the absolute Owner, Guardian, Trustee, and Interpreter.

    The Bible as the Church’s exclusive Possession

    Page 8 A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture by Dom Orchard, general editor
    1953

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Anon
  370. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Franz

    Michael Bradley —the author of Chosen People from the Caucuses — was one of Canada’s greatest heretics

    We have heretics?! Here in this land of swamps, decaying mill towns, the Great Wen of Toronto, the Covid medical/bureaucratic dictatorship, all under the hand of the bearded, Castro-loving, Helmsman, Trudeau II?

    Amazing!

    But, yes, I saw that Bradley was highly regarded by Conrad Lorenz, a far more intelligent ethologist than the 100 Most Influential, Frans de Waal, so I’ll have to find a reasonably-priced copy of his book.

    Are

    • Replies: @Franz
  371. Robjil says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    I agree.

    The thing I am pointing out is that Christians of today have to call out the Old Testament as it is being used today.

    The world is on fire with Old Testament mania.

    The Jewish Torah/Tanakh version of it.

    The Old Testament is the main reason that this is happening. Christians have to learn to speak up. The Old Testament “ended” for Christians. It is a history of the Hebrews for Christians. Amaleks to kill and Seven Nations to Destroy “ended” for Christians. The New Testament is where God for the Christians enters the picture.

    Joe Biden’s “I am Zionist” line is another example of the enslavement of the western world to Zionism.

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/19/zionist-biden-in-his-own-words-my-name-is-joe-biden-and-everybody-knows-i-love-israel/

    “I am a Zionist. You don’t have to be a Jew to be a Zionist,” current Democratic Presidential candidate, Joe Biden, said in April 2007, soon before he was chosen to be Barack Obama’s running mate in the 2008 elections.

    Biden is, of course, correct, because Zionism is a political movement that is rooted in 20th-century nationalism and fascism. Its use of religious dogmas is prompted by political expediency, not spirituality or faith.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  372. Gapeseed says:
    @Rurik

    It pained my cranium to read what I had ‘written’, until I realized I was being misquoted. You are of course, forgiven, as I’m sure it was a simple mistake, but do please try a little harder about that kind of thing in the future.

    I have not been a frequent poster here and now realize that I double-pasted accidentally, so do apologize.

    To paste your original point:

    Shouldn’t you be telling the Jews at the wailing wall, that what they’re doing and hoping for, is irrelevant to the Old Testament? And that the ‘third temple, is irrelevant. And that Zionism, is irrelevant. And Jerusalem, is irrelevant, as far as anything actually going on today?

    I don’t know enough about Jewish ritualistic practice to have an informed opinion, so will leave this alone while once again saying that I was discussing the development of Scripture over time and the author’s condensing of thousands of years of revelation into one frozen-in-time caricature.

    Mine is that such (with all due respect) is preposterous, and that if there is a God; (Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Jesus, or all of them combined), that the idea that our individual lives, or the lives of millions, (as has been squandered in the Holy Land in the last few years), are irrelevant to Him, then He, would be effectively irrelevant to anything and everything that could possibly have any consequences or effects on any of our lives, or the lives of our children or countrymen or the destiny of our nations and even civilizations.

    I’m definitely not saying this. An infinite Creator who opens the great gift of salvation for all in fact cares for each individual life more than we can comprehend. Jesus Himself talked about the Good Shepherd leaving His flock to seek out the lost sheep. There are no sunken costs with God, but without a view of what lies behind the veil of death, we cannot discern how justice is ultimately weighed and meted out. Certainly, there is some justice but some injustice in this life, but the balance seems askew to our incomplete contemplation. An element of Faith is having belief in God’s justice, here and hereinafter.

    What pray, is the context of this discussion, if not the nature and intentions and revealed wisdom of God?

    Mr. Guyénot drew upon Scripture to make his point, so I was pointing out an error in his method of interpretation of that Scripture, and was not arguing the nature of God per se. You seem interested in catching me saying that lives are irrelevant to God by latching on to a technical point I made about the development of Scripture. I hope the preceding paragraphs here dispel that notion.

    Is God not interested in the fate of His Holy Land? Whom murders whom? Which tribe wipes out which? What structure sits upon the Haram esh-Sharif ?

    It would seem that God is very interested, in His infinite way, in all of this. He is also very interested, in His infinite way, in lives that have no connection to the Holy Land whatsoever. Here as in many other places and times, He is inscrutable. Like Job, I was not around when He hung the stars in the firmament, so I cannot opine with any certainty. I hang my faith on things I can understand, like being kind to neighbors, more a New Testament notion.

    We’ve participated in a Satanic (if there ever was one), murderous and genocidal orgy of death, theft, suffering unimaginable, and horrors writ large – to the tune of millions of innocents, slaughtered, maimed, orphaned and displaced. Depleted Uranium that will make the devil grin for generations, as God’s children are born into His world deformed.

    We have been at war and all that entails over the past twenty years. I confess that while I was never gung ho about our initial efforts post-9/11, I also did not have the foresight and courage to vigorously oppose our efforts. In hindsight, I greatly regret my votes for W and vote for McCain, who would probably have escalated and double-downed on the mess we made. It is a mess, a hash, a humanitarian and environmental disaster. We should be ashamed. Let us leave the Middle East to the Middle Easterners, and focus on the New Testament message which is more appropriate for a majority-Christian nation.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  373. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Robjil

    The Old Testament “ended” for Christians. It is a history of the Hebrews for Christians. Amaleks to kill and Seven Nations to Destroy “ended” for Christians. The New Testament is where God for the Christians enters the picture.

    That is quite wrong. As I pointed out to Farterland here.

    The post 1493 imperialism of the Christian West was justified by the Jewish doctrine of racial supremacy and its imperative to go forth, multiply and rule over the nations of the Earth.

    This idea was based on the doctrine of supercession according to which Christians had taken the place of Jews as God’s people.

    As I pointed out above, British imperialism was explicitly justified by this doctrine, which now provides the implicit moral justification for American exceptionalism, i.e., the right to “bomb the shit out of” anyone Donald Trump, or any other jackass American president says.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  374. Ano4 says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    I inserted Mahometanism in this thread?

    It was AaronB who started about Rumi and Sufism and Talha replied to him.

    I agree with Talha that according to my understanding, Rumi and many other prominent Sufi Sheikhs were pious muslims, not some covert heretics as AaronB implied.

    Talha was gracious enough to reply, AaronB also replied what he thought was most fitting regarding our initial discussion about Ch’an/Zen and then out of the blue you reply to me with an anti-Islamic rant.

    So basically there were three people debating/discussing: AaronB, Talha and yours truly and then you arrived with completely unwarranted aggressiveness.

    And you tell me I am the solipsistic person here?

    Seriously?

    • Replies: @Talha
  375. @Archangel

    Liverani might be right on Joshua, unless it is Römer who is right to date it from the time of Josiah. Either way, it is fiction, I agree.
    Interesting take on the Midianites. Unlike the tribes destroyed by Joshua in Canaan, the Midianites are real. I have written on them and the Qenites in my article “The Arabian Cradle of Zion”.
    On your last comment, I disagree, from the biblical point of view, theire is no afterlife in the spirit, there is no spirit, no soul. Only Sheol, which is close to nothingness. “God” planned men to be physically immortal. There is no concept of an otherworld whatsoever. Christianity is different, because it is hellenistic. More in my article “Israel as one man.” Thanks for your interest.

  376. @anarchyst

    Circumcision does have a very practical side. I have had hundreds of soldiers tell me they got circumcisions and the reason is that despite what “experts” say it is very hard to keep the area clean when in the field. It is especially hard for the infantry.
    Another very good reason for circumcision is that penile cancer is almost unheard of in circumcised men. Cancer in circumcised men occurs mainly in homosexual men especially the promiscuous. I have not seen a study in the New England Journal of Medicine. I believe that is because we are not supposed to say anything negative about the homosexual lifestyle. I am not here to criticize. I am just pointing out what I have seen and read over the past forty plus years.

  377. Talha says:
    @Ano4

    I see you are relatively new around here…

    Don’t sweat it. There are some people around these parts that get triggered if anything positive is mentioned about Islam even in an oblique way. Meh – can’t please everyone, this Mahometan doesn’t think it’s worth trying.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Ano4
  378. @RumpelstiltskinTheGoy

    That’s the thing with Aaron …

    When he’s lost the argument he himself has brought about, he then tries to spin the illusion that his opponent is “angry” and he’s the better man for giving up, spitting on the ground as a parting gesture. It’s happened so many times, I’ve lost count.

    It’s one thing to present a sincere effort to prove one’s point, like many of the better posters here. I can respect that.

    That’s not him, though. It never has been.

  379. JamesinNM says:

    Perhaps consider reading C.S. Lewis’ book “Mere Christianity” is which Lewis discusses his quest to determine if there is such a thing as absolute truth and whether or not Jesus is who and what he claimed to be. And consider whether or not the answer to these questions matters to you.

  380. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    I see you have not taken my advice and read Rumi…

    Very disappointed in you, AS.

    Rumi is disappointed in you too.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  381. Robjil says:
    @CanSpeccy

    That article about supersede says much what I am saying. Supersede is good if takes what Jesus says and not what the Old Testament said.

    Here is what supersede is from that article.

    https://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/03/18/supersessionism-and-all-that/

    Supersede” is a synonym for “replace”. Supersession is a Christian theological term referring to a specific replacement—namely, the replacement of God’s covenant with Israel by a new covenant (new “testament”) with the Church. Put differently, the Church of Christ is the new Israel. Supersessionism is the doctrine that this replacement has in fact occurred. Theologians like long words, especially if they derive from Greek or (in this case) Latin. If you like “supersessionism”, how about “anti-supersessionism”? Which, logically enough, means the rejection of the replacement doctrine.

    Here is what is happening today from that article. After big 6 mania of WWII, Christians bowed under anti-supersessionism. Zionism supersedes the west.

    In the 1950s there developed a trend of anti-supersessionism among both Catholics and Protestants. Biblical scholarship increasingly emphasized the Jewish context of Jesus of Nazareth. Much of this, I think, happened apart from larger political events (scholarship has its own dynamics, some of it resulting from the need of every new academic generation to commit intellectual parricide, that is to differentiate itself from the generation of its teachers). The emphasis on “the Jew Jesus of Nazareth” was tailor-made for upsetting the older generation of mostly conservative Protestant scholars. There was also the memory of the Holocaust, making every whiff of anti-Semitism intolerable and leading Christians to reflect to what extent supersessionism had been a cause of anti-Jewish sentiments. Many Catholics and Protestants came to the conclusion that efforts to convert Jews to Christianity should cease, and Jewish organizations often regarded such efforts to be intrinsically anti-Semitic (not a very logical conclusion—if people really believed that faith in Jesus Christ was necessary for eternal salvation, excluding Jews from missionary outreach could be construed as ultimate anti-Semitism!)

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  382. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Robjil

    Supersede is good if takes what Jesus says and not what the Old Testament said.

    But the Christian Bible includes the Torah.

    Christianity is Judaism with bacon, but without genital mutilation, and much else of the “law.” It honors the Ten Commandments, with the exception of Nos. 3, 4, 7, and 10.

    As for what Jesus said, we have really no idea, since neither Jesus nor any of the disciples wrote anything down. Instead, we have multiple hearsay accounts, or gospels, written long after the death of Jesus, that can be read in various ways.

    The gospels express what may be important moral insights, but they are contradictory and none explicitly reject Judaism. Rather, as in Matthew, they confirm that Christianity is a lax form of Judaism, “I am not come to destroy the law or the prophets, but to fulfil….”

    One must conclude, therefore, that insofar as it remains anchored in the Bible, Christianity, like Judaism, is a nation- or empire-binding institution, and like Judaism contemptuous of and ready to exploit “gentiles and lesser breeds without the law.”

    The conflict between Judaism and Christianity is reflects the Jewish rejection of the claim of Christian supercession. That the Christians are generally on the losing end of the argument reflects the fact that they adhere to the law as it affects community survival and competitive success much more loosely than do Jews, and thus usually come off as the losers where interests conflict.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  383. What kind of nonsense is this? You hate Jews that much that you hate GOD as well…

    Yahweh (YHWH) or more properly Yahovah condemns Hebrews as the most wicked people to exist, but he will still uphold his promise to show to the world that he exist and has eternal mercy and forgiveness.

    • Replies: @Laurent Guyénot
  384. @AaronB

    Oh, I’m enjoying the Mathnawi as we speak.

    I’ve reached the section entitled “The Jewish king who tried to destroy Christians with fire”, which follows “The story of the Jewish king who, out of fanaticism, would kill Christians.”

    You might want to get in touch with Sasha Baron-Cohen. There’s some pretty anti-Semitic stuff in there.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  385. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:

    I think in view of this article, a through reading of the Torah, and in view of their love/hate relationship over 1000s of years (or at least since ~600AD), that it’s safe to say that there’s no bigger antisemite in the universe beside ‘God’.

  386. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    Lol, what’s wrong with saying there was once a Jewish king that persecuted Christians? I’m sure there were such kings. What, Muslim history can be full of persecution, Christian history can be full of persecution, but Jewish history can’t have a few persecuting kings here and there?

    We’re not superhuman, you know.

    If that’s your standard, the Old Testament is full of tales of Jews moral failures. Happens all the time. There are even Jewish kings who persecuted Jews!

    Besides, Rumi was a canny old fellow – he knew he had to wrap his lessons in what his audience liked to hear 🙂

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  387. @Talha

    Jazakumullahu khayr for the counsel, akhi.

    As I informed you earlier, I don’t do video, so I’ll have to leave it at it.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  388. Robjil says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Ten commandments are originally from the Egyptians. I don’t know why people keep bringing up the ten commandments. They aren’t so special or unique. The Beatitudes of Jesus, eight of them, are at a higher level.

    https://houseoftruth.education/en/library/sacred-writings/egyptian-book-of-the-dead-42-negative-confessions

    As the Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead can be consider the forefather of the Bible and Quran, correspondingly the 42 negative confessions can be considered the forefather of the Law of Moses and especially of the Ten Commandments. At this point, we may recall the teachings of Jesus where he told us that the Law given by Moses was actually not the entire Law. Indeed, the Ten Commandments are included in the 42 negative confessions, which may be considered as 42 Commandments – the Whole Law. These 42 commandments have been created with the most pure mind and thus only negative forms are used. Whoever utters them, cannot take any credit for his/her deeds, but rather only tell about what he/she has not done. The negative construction of commandments is thus a praise to the highest God.

    Marcion was correct after all. The Old Testament is just a history book of the Hebrews. There seems no way out but to look at it as a history book and not a religious object. Zionism messed it in the past hundred years.

    https://www.westarinstitute.org/blog/marcion-forgotten-father-inventor-new-testament/

    Marcion holds a lasting legacy for Christians as the inventor of the New Testament. Jason BeDuhn, author of The First New Testament: Marcion’s Scriptural Canon, argues that Marcion not only put together the very first Christian canon of scriptures, he gave Christianity very idea of doing so. At the Early Christianity: Heritage or Heresies? Conference in Santa Rosa, California, BeDuhn spoke about the important role Marcion played in shaping Christian identity. This begins with the relationship between Gentiles and Jews in the Roman Empire. “A good contemporary analogy is the interest some modern White Americans have in Native American religion and culture,” he said, “A similar thing was going on with Gentile fans of Judaism in the ancient world. They wanted to take on foreign spirituality and practices.” However, Jews rebelled multiple times against the Roman Empire in the second century, and Gentile Christian groups fled association with them, taking on new forms in the process.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @CanSpeccy
  389. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Most welcome, bro.

    I don’t do video

    May Allah swt grant you purity of vision and heart.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  390. @AaronB

    Well, that is something I respect about you: you acknowledge that the Lobby’s approach toward censorship and hate crime laws is wrongheaded, which I appreciate.

    As for our argument, it was never my intention to do anything more than hold you accountable for your characterization of Rumi. You find me “aggressive” in this pursuit; I see it merely as persistence.

    For what it’s worth, Rumi was well-known in his time and never threatened by Muslim authorities for his work. (A simple disclaimer wouldn’t have saved him if they had been so intolerant of it.) He’s also highly influential throughout the Muslim world to this day — save among neo-Salafiyya extremists. In short, he’s been part and parcel of orthodox Islam for centuries.

    Sure, it may appear petty to pursue this matter, but it’s not as insignificant as it seems and I’m certain you understand this, which is why you “pressed the point” well after you said you didn’t want to. After all, you’re not just suggesting something about Rumi, you’re suggesting it about Islam.

    But my brother Talha has helped to put things in perspective, so I’m grateful for his timely admonition. Insha’ALLAH, He’ll keep us distant from vain contention.

  391. Talha says:
    @Robjil

    As the Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead can be consider the forefather

    Muslims would actually have no issue with the proposition that the ancient Egyptians were sent both a prophet (or even multiple prophets) and a revelation (or multiple revelations) at some stage in their unique history.

    Peace.

    • Agree: Robjil
  392. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    I am assuming that you’re Roman and not Orthodox?

    If so, your church ceded its role as the Body of Christ when it became a nest of faggots, and decided that child fucking was a minor inconvenience that could be swept under the rug. All of which is to say, that it may never have been the Body of Christ.

    We have some Russian Orthodox communities within 100 miles of where I live that I’ve considered attending, just to try an hold onto something from my childhood.

  393. @Talha

    wa eeyakum.

    Here’s the skinny on that:

    I have a blocker that allows me to listen to some videos without viewing them. It functions like a charm on YouTube, but doesn’t work on all platforms. There may be some rare exceptions when I’m willing to unblock, but for the most part, I adhere to blocking.

    was-salaam.

  394. Guyenot is another example of the cucked Western male who just scribbles and babbles but does nothing to save the West. He is recycling his usual anti-Christian nonsense – a variation of Marcionism. The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. What happened in the OT had to happen for Christ to fulfill His mission.

    Guyenot is an insane anti-Semite who lets the Joooooz live rent free in his head. His focusing on the Jews is wrong for a couple of reasons. Present day Jews are not the same Jews of the Old Testament or when Jesus lived. Present day Jews are miscegenated, meshuggah schmegegges who are not the chosen and no longer have a covenant with God. The Jews we have today have been supported by various mystery schools and occultists through the centuries. We will have give present day Jews a new name.

    Blacks/Asians/Muslims pose many problems for the West. This is why I’m a Western, Christian nationalist and define what the West is and is not. The West is not black/Asian/Jewish/Muslim. To solve the West’s problems, we need to adopt the strategy of Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand of Spain. They expelled the Jews and the Muslims.

    Guyenot, do you live in France? If yes, what are you doing to save France from becoming a third world shithole? You have Charles Martel as an example for what needs to be done.

    Even though you don’t like Christianity, France is the eldest daughter of the RCC and you cannot erase 1800 years of Christianity from France. Are you trying to restore Notre Dame? Or do you think that this gem of Western civilization is junk?

    • Replies: @Archangel
  395. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Robjil

    Marcion was correct after all. The Old Testament is just a history book of the Hebrews.

    What some old geezer said doesn’t alter the fact that the Old Testament was and is read and accepted as the word of God, by Christian imperialists. And it doesn’t alter the fact that the Torah, i.e., the first five books of the Old Testament are still the basis of the Jewish modus operandi.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  396. Ano4 says:
    @Talha

    Understood.

    Be well.

    • Thanks: Talha
  397. ivan says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    Lucifer / Satan seems to be the extreme embodiment of natural human or environmental impulses. In the garden of Eden Adam and Eve were told not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge. But naturally since like 12 year olds they did the very thing they were forbidden to do. Job was enjoying his life when Satan “going hither and thither” minding his own business when God inveigled him to put Job to the test. Satan seems fairy well acquainted with human weaknesses when he offered Jesus the four temptations in the desert.

    I am a Christian only because of Jesus Christ. Northrop Frye in The Bible as Literature offers one way to look at the Bible as providential history.

    • Replies: @ivan
  398. Robjil says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I looked more into this. Many Christians do say that the OT ended.

    Thus, not all Christians of today are Zionists after all. Guyenot’s criticism is about the negative parts of the Old Testament (Torah/Tanakh) being used for warfare, tyranny and destruction of our planet.

    https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/october-web-only/andy-stanley-irresistible-response-to-foster.html

    There is a common way of dividing the OT law into three categories: ceremonial, civil, and moral. While I don’t use this division in my book, it may clarify what I’m saying. When I say that the Old Testament has ended, it means the ceremonial laws are fulfilled in the death of Jesus—no more sacrifices in the temple, no more priests. OT civil laws are no longer enforced, since they were given for the nation of Israel formed at Mt. Sinai. And while God’s moral laws have not changed, they are transformed into something new. They are reset upon a new and better foundation, Jesus Christ.

    https://www.igrc.org/files/tables/content/815359/fields/files
    /1757e584713541598edc64ebf6feb05a/god-and-violence-in-the-ot.pdf

    Another possible response to these Scripture passages is to say that religious understanding evolved through the many centuries of the making of the Bible. It is widely believed that the earliest parts of the Old Testament were developed when folks were more primitive in their thinking. In this scenario Jesus is seen as the one who most fully reveals a corrected understanding of God as compassionate and forgiving.

    • Agree: ivan, Gapeseed
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  399. Seraphim says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    Of course historical ‘Gnosticism’, the heresies (from the Greek αιρεσις, or “choice”, a one-sided personal opinion generated by an ‘insight’ (gnosis) into the hidden to the mere mortals ‘true’ nature of things, a narrowing of the “catholic wholeness” to a particular truth elevated to the status of a dogma, and imposed upon the Church by its adherents) of Simon Magus, Basilides, Cerinthus, Marcion, Valentinian, did not precede Christianity. But their principal aim was to contest the authority of the Church hierarchy, the successors of the Apostles, witnesses of the life, death and resurrection of the Christ, commissioned to herald the ‘Good News’ to the whole creation, by opposing them a hodge-podge of myths of their own fabrication. Central to ‘Gnosticism’ and to the ‘Judaism’ (and its spawn Islam) which it purports to combat, is the negation of the Incarnation of the Word of God and of his resurrection [“By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world (1 John 4:2–3)”].
    ‘Gnosticism’ has never been extirpated, it continued secretly its work of subversion of the Church until it came out of the closet with a vengeance (‘strangling the last kings with the bowels of the last priests’ to ‘ecraser l’Infame’ – the Church). It is one of the roots of the ‘Higher Criticism of the Bible’, the result of Protestant (especially German, but French and English also) ‘theology’ and philosophy, which led to the ‘scientific atheism’. But the true originators of ‘Biblical criticism’ are, ironically, the Spinozas, Astrucs, La Peyreres, Eichhorns of a certain ‘ethnicity’ (open or ‘crypto’).

    • Thanks: SeekerofthePresence
    • Replies: @ivan
  400. ivan says:
    @ivan

    Sorry its the Great Code: The Bible and Literature, Northrop Frye

  401. ivan says:
    @Seraphim

    The way I see it sooner or later somebody was going to question the Bible. Spinoza presumably because he understood that the OT books were used by the Kahal to keep the Jews mired in superstition. If I recall one thing it is that the Jewish burghers in Amsterdam wanted him to be sentenced to death. The Bible has numerous inconsistencies and embarrassments for a relatively modern ear : temple prostitution, seeding one’s brother’s wife to assure his earthly immortality on pain of death, Joshua’s Long Day – for which the Church carried cudgels and so on. When literacy spreads, people are going to form their own opinion.

    The earlier struggle with Gnostics by authorities such as St Augustine was necessary to establish the foundations of Christian belief at a time when Christians themselves were for hundreds of years subject to unimaginable suffering by various parties. Those who endured owe at least some of their willpower to the strong teachings of such authorities. But as always the conditions for the reaction sets in more clement times. That is the way of progress, which distinguishes the West from every other civilisation , in that it essentially questions its own foundations with regularity and dispatch. That it turns out is the basis of its superiority over the Chinese, Islamic, Indian or what have you, cultures.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  402. @Robjil

    Yeah, her father was actual literally shabaz goy. He went around the synagogue cleaning up
    She told the Jews at Aipac that. Of course maybe she is lying these days white goy like to either pretend they are part Jewish like the English PM or in some other way serve Jews.

    • Agree: Robjil
  403. @Saggy

    Zionism emerged from the Talmud, not the Old Testament. Which is why Christians rejected Zionist claims for centuries.

    • Replies: @Saggy
    , @Achilles Wannabe
  404. @Robjil

    Guyenot is engaging in classic Jewish misdirection by blaming the Old Testament instead of the Talmud. Christians accepted the Old Testament for centuries without supporting Zionism or Jewish homeland claims. You are naive.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  405. @giulia

    Gnosticism and hermeticism were promoted by Jews to undermine Christian teaching. Hermeticism especially was promoted by Jewish immigrants from Byzantium to Italy. Most of the principle Gnostic and Hermetic texts were promoted by Jews. Even the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA SAYS SO:
    http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6723-gnosticism

  406. Franz says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I saw that Bradley was highly regarded by Conrad Lorenz

    I can believe that. However hypothetical MB gets, he always stimulates the thinking.

    Two favorites of mine, for reasons I can’t ennumerate on my way to work, are still available:

    The rise (and fall?) of Esau’s Empire:

    http://www.michaelbradley.info/esau/esau-chapter3.html

    And (careful, PDF download):

    Esau’s Empire, Part I:

    http://www.michaelbradley.info/esau/esau-chapter1.pdf

    • Thanks: CanSpeccy
  407. Seraphim says:
    @ivan

    The earliest struggle with Gnosticism predates Augustin by 200 years.
    “On the Detection and Overthrow of the So-Called Gnosis (Ἔλεγχος καὶ ἀνατροπὴ τῆς ψευδωνύμου γνώσεως), in short “Adversus Haereses”, was a work of Christian theology written in Greek about the year 180 by Irenaeus, the bishop of Lugdunum. It is the first unambiguous attestations of the canonical gospel texts and some of the Pauline epistles. Irenaeus cites from most of the New Testament canon as we know it. He was the first to argue why there should be four Gospels.
    You had probably in mind Tertullian (155-240) who was a North African like Augustin, but a layman lawyer, and who wrote in Latin. He composed many apologetic treatises, among them one specifically against Marcion: “Adversus Marcionem” in five books in which he denounces “the one who has gnawed the Gospels (evangelia) to pieces”. It is a precise reference to the four Gospels used in the Church. Marcion ‘gnawed’ at them since he posited that there was only one ‘Evangelicon’ eliminating the Gospels of Matthew and John, that of Luke which he emended heavily to insert his own ideas. The so-called ‘canon’ of Marcion was really an anti-canon.
    Tertullian is important in other way. He, along with St.Justin Martyr, refer explicitly to the report of Pilate to the Emperor Tiberius about the passion and crucifixion of Christ, the ‘Actes of Pilate’ which have been destroyed during the persecution of Diocletian, but reconstituted after the Edicts of tolerance.

    • Replies: @ivan
  408. @AnonStarter

    I really dislike Jewish self-righteousness. Who is he to tell people what is the next step for their religion? You see, their cult programs them to falsely believe that they are on a higher moral ground, much better than the goyim. Thus, they go on mentoring and telling people how to live.

    You can see this with many Jews who emigrated to the U.S. Early 20th century Ashkenazi Jew would go off the boat at N.Y. and then he would become a professor at an university or a politician, working to change the character of the country. Not even 5-10 years would have passed since his arrival to the U.S.A. shore and he would already be telling the american goy how to live.

    • Agree: anarchyst
  409. @Living Proof

    You hate Jews that much that you hate GOD as well…

    Of course not: Yahweh is a grotesque fiction, it has nothing to do with God, in my view. The biblical image of God actually ruined God’s reputation in the Christian world, and that is perhaps the biggest harm it has done. I hate Yahweh because I love God. Funny how difficult it is for some people to understand this simple point.

  410. Robjil says:
    @Vik Templeton

    In the last hundred years, since 12.23.1913, the Top people in many governments are Jewish in the media and as advisors. It is a very different world these days.

    The Old Testament is now being used as weapon by these Top Jews. The focus solely on the OT is being used to whittle down Christians from Christianity to bring them into the Noahide movement.

    The Noahides, former Protestant Christians, are controlled by Jewish rabbis. No gentiles allowed to overseer the Noahides. It is slavery of the mind, body and soul to Jewish rabbi overseers.

    In the Philippines, it is actively being promoted. Duterte’s wife was Jewish. His children could be considered Jewish. This perhaps why he is working with Israel on the Noahide project in the Phillipines.

    https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-the-messianic-zionist-religion-that-wants-to-recruit-7-billion-members-1.6455144

    Cooperation between Israel and the Philippines is constantly growing, and this week reached new heights with the visit to Israel of the country’s president, Rodrigo Duterte. The Philippines are a key arena of Chabad activity, and one of the primary venues where the new religion is being disseminated. There are four Chabad centers in the country, and in addition to assisting Jews, they support 10 Noahide houses of prayer. The Hasidic emissaries view the Philippines community as the model for Noahide communities in other countries. A group from the community was brought to Israel two years ago, and its members met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has also sent his greetings to all the communities worldwide.

    Ex-Protestants who focused too much on the OT got caught in the Noahide trap. Guyonet is correct to be wary of too much focus on OT. It is very sad what is happening to the Philippine people. It is happening in other places but the Philippines is the start up place now. Rodrigo talks tough and acts so independent. Yet, he is doing the opposite by promoting the Noahide movement which will enslave his people to Jewish rabbi overseers.

    Last month, Nova Religio, a journal devoted to emergent and alternative religions, published an article by Rachel Z. Feldman, assistant professor of religious studies at Franklin and Marshall College, in Pennsylvania, titled “The Children of Noah: Has Messianic Zionism Created a New World Religion?” In the summer of 2017, Feldman visited Noahide communities on the Filipino island of Cebu, which are supervised by Chabad rabbis. Like most Noahides around the world, the members of the Cebu community came mostly from Protestant churches, but had abandoned their belief in the New Testament.

  411. @Archangel

    One last comment. Why does Yahweh promise Abraham and his descendants numerous offspring, wealth and power; why not immortality ? Because paradise was closed. After Adam and Eve were chased away, the gates of paradise were closed. They were reopened after the resurrection of Jesus and because of his sacrifice.

    So the Christians are ok with being slaves to rich and powerful Jews because they believe Jesus promised them immortality, got it.

  412. Archangel says:
    @attilathehen

    Attila, Attila, where is the Whip of God when we need it ? Why are you not leading a band of horsemen against the invaders ?

    • LOL: Commentator Mike
    • Replies: @attilathehen
  413. @Anon

    There has always been wheat and chaff in the Church and during the time of Saint Peter Damien (he wrote Gomorrah in response to the then popularity of public sodomy) and about 90% of the sexual crimes committee dby the queer clergy as committed against adolescent males not children but your mind was cultivated by the press – and who owns the press?

    The crimes of sodomy, pederasty, and pedophilia is more prevalent in schools and families than in the Church, so, maybe you should leave those also.

    You think the orthodox do not have a problem with sodomites?

    • Replies: @Anon
  414. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Robjil

    Many Christians do say that the OT ended.

    Well that’s good. But when will the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Pope, the Patriarch of Constantinople, and the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox church say that the OT has ended?

    No time soon, you can be sure. When the next major war begins, all sides will call on God, Christian or otherwise, to aid in the destruction of the enemy.

    Gott straffe England,
    God save the King
    God this, God that, God the other thing
    Good God, said God
    I’ll have my work cut out.

    Thing is, people can and do believe whatever they like about religion.

    But the reality is that religion is an institution of civilization, either a formal state institution or a collection of informal institutions. But in either case, the function of the institution is to instill public morals and maintain discipline and morale in times of war or other disaster.

    To perform those functions the new testament doesn’t hack it.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  415. Robjil says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Those were the days.

    Things are different now.

    The Controversy of Zion

    by Douglas Reed.

    From Yahweh to Zion

    by Laurent Guyenot

    Solving Nine Eleven

    by Christopher Bollyn

    We have new rulers in town since 12.23.1913.- 1st Century of Zion

    12.23.5761 Jewish calendar/ 09.11.2001 AD – 2nd Century of Zion

    • Replies: @Rurik
  416. Saggy says: • Website
    @Vik Templeton

    ionism emerged from the Talmud, not the Old Testament. W

    ??? I just quoted the explicit blueprint for Zionism, straight out of the OT. The conquest of Zion and the extermination of the non-Jews is one of the 3 central themes of the OT, which are …

    1. – Creation of earth
    2 – The flood
    3 – The conquest of Zion

    Where is Zionism mentioned in the Talmud? Chapter and verse … I collect quotes.

  417. Love and am total agreement. Everything touching on the faith is a murderous lie. Having said that, the Death Bone they point at the World is also pointed at them: you live by the sword you die by the sword.

    Genocide is part of their culture, but do they whinge when they are on the receiving end.

  418. Rurik says:
    @Gapeseed

    I don’t know enough about Jewish ritualistic practice to have an informed opinion, so will leave this alone while once again saying that I was discussing the development of Scripture over time and the author’s condensing of thousands of years of revelation into one frozen-in-time caricature.

    Those thousands of years, have led exactly to where we all are, right now.

    It’s the now that is relevant, (and immediate and dire). We’re on the precipice, and it is salient to reflect on how we got here, if we’re to figure out what to do now that we’re here.

    If you haven’t noticed, Jewish supremacist Zionists have coopted the Christian religion; the Vatican, the evangelicals, and all the mainstream churches toe their genocidal line. Murder and rampage in the Holy Land. White phosphorus drops on children, because the Christians of the world all demand, with one hollow, soulless voice, that ‘Israel has to defend itself’.

    We’re embroiled in immoral and lied-about Eternal Wars, that are bankrupting the nation to the tune of seven trillions of dollars- and counting… Thousand upon thousands of Americans and others have lost their lives, in abject fealty to Zion. Not to mention the millions of others who’ve perished in their own lands. And due to the ‘Jewish ritualistic practices’ that you seem to consider irrelevant.

    An infinite Creator who opens the great gift of salvation for all in fact cares for each individual life more than we can comprehend.

    He has an odd way of showing it.

    There are no sunken costs with God, but without a view of what lies behind the veil of death, we cannot discern how justice is ultimately weighed and meted out. Certainly, there is some justice but some injustice in this life, but the balance seems askew to our incomplete contemplation. An element of Faith is having belief in God’s justice, here and hereinafter. *

    So that means that if the Holocaust were happening right now, and Jews were being turned into lampshades and soap in death camps all over the place, that we should just put our heads down, and shuffle along, because God knows what He’s doing, and He’ll sort it all out in the end. Eh?

    You seem interested in catching me saying that lives are irrelevant to God

    umm.. didn’t you just infer that very thing, with the quote I posted just above? *

    …in His infinite way, in all of this. He is also very interested, in His infinite way, in lives that have no connection to the Holy Land whatsoever. Here as in many other places and times, He is inscrutable…

    Aren’t you again, affirming, that [individuals] ‘lives are irrelevant to God’ ?

    Because He knows what He’s doing, after all. And who are we to question His inscrutable judgment?

    Or is it man, that is murdering others? And as Mr. Guyénot points out, is doing so by using ‘God’ (the Bible) to justify it all?

    I also did not have the foresight and courage to vigorously oppose our efforts. In hindsight, I greatly regret my votes for W and vote for McCain, who would probably have escalated and double-downed on the mess we made. It is a mess, a hash, a humanitarian and environmental disaster. We should be ashamed. Let us leave the Middle East to the Middle Easterners, and focus on the New Testament message which is more appropriate for a majority-Christian nation.

    In spite of our differences, I suspect that you are participating here in good faith. Which is my main criteria.

    I think you’re right, and we should be ashamed, for how we’ve allowed our nation to be used so ignobly. If we can mollify a shred of the evil our nation has visited upon so many, or even reverse this Satanic trend, then I wouldn’t care what methods we used to that end. Ponder the millenniums of God’s revealed truth, if that does it, or look straight into the moral sewer of what Jewish supremacist Zionists actually believe.

    Either way is fine with me, and if you prefer the former, then God bless, and God speed. But I think Mr. Guyénot’s method might just be a bit more realistic, if more people come to understand just what kinds of things are actually written in that book, and even more alarming, that there really are some people so terrifyingly deluded, that they actually believe it, and even more appalling , believe that it all applies to our lives today.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: Gapeseed, Kolya Krassotkin
  419. Rurik says:
    @Robjil

    We have new rulers in town since 12.23.1913.- 1st Century of Zion

    12.23.5761 Jewish calendar/ 09.11.2001 AD – 2nd Century of Zion

    while I can’t (and wouldn’t) quibble with any of the very true things you’ve wrote, I would just suggest that while I agree that the 1st Century of Zion, did indeed begin on 12/24/1913

    I think it would be correct to suggest that the 2nd Century of Zion, began on 9/11/2001

    In fact, to my horror, when I contemplated 9/11, I realized exactly that. That they fully intended to use that event, to make sure that the 21st Century was ((their)) Century also. And just as the 20th was mind-numbing in its evil unleashed upon this planet, (with hundreds of millions starved and burned alive, and ‘genocided or ‘gulaged or ‘Nakbad, or otherwise died in unspeakable ways, so that this Century too, would be (and has began as), a Jewish Century.

    So far, at least, as they’ve tried to get a hot war going between Russia and Ukraine, and Russia and Poland, and Russia and the ZUS, they’ve been unsuccessful.

    Here’s to hoping that great statesmen like Putin, and others can continue to thwart their eternal imperative, to ‘kill the best of the Gentiles’.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Robjil
  420. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Jewish supremacist Zionists have coopted the Christian religion; the Vatican, the evangelicals, and all the mainstream churches toe their genocidal line. Murder and rampage in the Holy Land. White phosphorus drops on children, because the Christians of the world all demand, with one hollow, soulless voice, that ‘Israel has to defend itself’.

    What has happened to the indigenous Palestinians, descendants so it is said of the ancient Israelites who were forced to convert to Islam, is sad. But what concerns me more, is the genocidal impact of Jewish influence in the West, which corrupts and suppressed the indigenous people, while promoting their replacement by people from other continents and of an alien race, religion and culture.

    In that connection, a Zionist takeover of the Christian institutions makes perfect sense:

    Your society is being corrupted by Jewish controlled porn, media, gambling and other entertainments?

    Don’t worry, just turn the other cheek.

    LOL: Christianity, far from being a Jewish heresy looks more and more like a Jewish agent of fifth generation war for absolute control of the West.

  421. Robjil says:
    @Rurik

    The 12.23.5761 was the Jewish calendar date for 9.11.2001.

    https://www.aish.com/dijh/Elul_23.html
    Here is a Jewish viewpoint of 911.

    Elul 23

    On September 11, 2001, Islamist terrorists hijacked four U.S. domestic airplanes, crashing two into the World Trade Center in Manhattan, one into the Pentagon, and the fourth into a rural field in Pennsylvania. Some 3,000 people died in the attacks, the most lethal ever on American soil. It was not long before Hezbollah’s al-Manar television concocted a conspiracy theory that Israeli and Jewish employees did not show up for work at the WTC on 9/11, supposedly based on a tip from the Israeli General Security apparatus, the Shabak. In fact, the attacks claimed an estimated at 400-500 Jewish victims, including five Israelis. However, it has been speculated that indeed many Jews may have been late for work that day, since the attack occurred a few days prior to Rosh Hashana, when Jews extend their morning prayers with the “Slichot” service.

    Elul is the 12th month of the Jewish Calendar.

    https://www.chabad.org/holidays/JewishNewYear/template_cdo/aid/3766989/jewish/12-Elul-Facts-Every-Jew-Should-Know.htm

    1. Elul is the Final Month on the Calendar

    Elul is the 12th month on the Jewish calendar (the 6th month counting from Nissan). It always has 29 days, ending on the same day of the week that it began (Sunday, Monday, Wednesday or Friday), which ensures that the holidays in the subsequent month will fall on the proper days.

    https://www.hebcal.com/hebcal/?year=2001&v=1&month=x&yt=G&nh=on&nx=on&vis=0&d=on&c=off

    5761 was the Jewish year when 911 happened.

    September 2001
    11
    23rd of Elul, 5761

    • Replies: @Rurik
  422. ivan says:
    @Seraphim

    Thanks boss. This is one of the reasons I hang out here, there is much to learn from commenters such as yourself. I know of these matters largely via third hand, ie such as blog posts like the current one.

    But I did come across books that claimed to be speaking for a Christian Gnosticism that had some lost books apparently not included in the Canon. There it was claimed that Christianity has to go back to the supposedly higher wisdom contained in those lost or suppressed books if it is to remain relevant. I noticed though that the lands where such beliefs were historically widespread could offer no resistance to the depredations of Islam when it emerged from the desert. Generally these wise guys were not able to equip their followers with what was required to resist Islam. For if some disembodied Wisdom is all there is to Christianity then why not just follow the Wisdom tradition in Islam (or the Kabala)? Only those who clung to the Resurrected Son of God survived in their faith. For the Christian God is a Person, a Being who actually suffered and died on the Cross, not some disembodied idea of the Good.

    As Jesus said somewhere “by their fruits shall ye know them” : The fruits of Gnosticism proved unable to sustain its followers against the onslaught of Islam. The evidence of Tertullian and Justin Martyr (which I knew nothing about till now) bolster the case for the bodily resurrected Christ as recorded in the Gospels, the physically existing Christ who will bring us Salvation. For as He again said somewhere : “Without Me you are nothing” (in your faith)..

  423. Seraphim says:

    I hope that my modest contributions would entice you to go to the sources, the Scriptures, the Fathers of the Church and of course to Church (Orthodox, of course). There is nothing that can open your understanding of our faith better than active and attentive participation in the liturgical life. Throw all ‘gnostic’ books where they belong, the garbage bin.
    God help.

    • Thanks: ivan
  424. @Vik Templeton

    I have never looked at the Talmud because I have been told on good Jewish authority that there is no such thing as an honest English translation. But I have never heard anything about it from its critics that could not be deduced from the OT. I think blaming the Talmud is the Christian way to hold on to the OT. I think the OT is a book by Jews for Jews; it’s only relevance for Christians is that it is a book which should be rebelled against. It is a shame Christianity or late Christianity and particularly Protestant Christianity doesn’t see it that way. Because non traditional Christians or neo Christians don’t see the Jews for what they are or actualy even value them for what they are, Jews manage to sidle up to Christianity, and get so many of their worst characteristics ignored, played down or even emulated . Then Christianity becomes the best thing that ever happened to Jews in the West. It becomes their cover: the rich pass through the eye of the needle, the money changers own the temple, and finally the Romans get blamed for murdering Christ. Nice work if Jews can get it and the post modern Christians give it to them

    • Agree: Robjil
  425. Most of the OT can only be properly understood by those who read Zecharia Sitchin’s books on the Anunnaki. I must confess that I refused for 25 years to do this, thinking he was insane, but everything fell in place when I did. Sitchin was received in the Vatican, by #2 in the hierarchy, to explain his findings : aliens who came 450k years ago to our planet, to mine gold, created mankind as ‘simple workers’ in the mines, on the fields, etc.
    Yahweh from the OT was one of them : he real name was NERGAL, he was the son of ENKI (also known as PTAH in Egypt, LORD SHIVA in India, QUETZALCOATL in Mexico, etc.) and the brother of MARDUK (BAAL). Marduk fought his uncle ENLIL for supremacy over earth and NERGAL (not taken seriously by his peers, bold early in life, born with a limp, with an inferiority complex and utterly jealous) sided with his uncle against his brilliant and charismatic brother. The Anunnaki had 7 nuclear weapons on earth and NERGAL was allowed to use these to nuke Sodom, Gomorrah and 3 other cities in the Jordan valley. His cousin NINURTA (son of ENLIL) nuked the Anunnaki spaceport in the Sinai (named after SIN also known as NANNAR) which had come under control of MARDUK. The earth there is still slightly scarred (use Google Earth). NERGAL told the tribes of Israeli that he was creator of heaven and earth and promised them that they would be allowed to live in – as we call it now – Palestine if they would conquer it on the followers of BAAL/MARDUK. Jerusalem was ‘flight control centre’ and of strategic importance. Those who control our planet now, keep this information out of the main stream media, of course. So ….. Yahweh was a fraud, but not the devil. He was evil indeed, because he wanted to destroy all 5 cities in the Jordan Valley, just to kill ONE person : NABU, MARDUK’s son. The most important conclusion : we know NOTHING about our past.

  426. anarchyst says:
    @Luther Pendragon

    Another good book on the subject of the Anunnaki is “Slave Species of God” by Michael Tellinger.

  427. hdh says:

    How can this article be tranalated? Google translator replies that the article is too long. Maybe the UNZ review should have a transkation feature.

  428. Sankara says:
    @Gleimhart Mantooso

    Jesus is born a jew, this cannot be denied. And he was brought up in the Yahvist religion. But he acted a radical split from the past and subverted the hebrew symbols . He is forever a rebel against the lies his community taught him . He got free from judaïsm without lacking respect to any of God’s creatures. When the truth is revealed to you you feel renewed, like a newborn baby, and healed from past traumas.
    It is important to trust Jesus instead of suspecting him to be forever infected by judaïsm.
    He is a dissident !
    I am very sorry that Laurent is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. He is not taking the question seriously enough…

    And Laurent is doing a great damage, putting on Jesus’s back the fault of misleaded christians…

    • Replies: @Robjil
  429. Robjil says:
    @Sankara

    We are very serious times these days. This site is one of few places that we talk about such things. The OT is a big part of the problem. Over valuing the OT feeds Israel mania and Big 6 mania. The overbearing love for these irrational manias are destroying our planet with wars and destruction of anything that defies them. More importantly, these manias are destroying the human intellect with their hatred of freedom of thought.

    Here is a viewpoint of a Christian who is against Christian Zionism ( those who focus too much on the OT). This is one way out of this mess. Christians have to stop supporting Christian Zionism. The Top Zion Jews will continue on but they will not have so many lackies for their cause.

    https://www.thebanner.org/features/2019/12/why-i-m-not-a-christian-zionist

    To think Christianity about land and promise is to think differently than Judaism. The New Testament changes the spiritual geography of God’s people. The kingdom of God is tied to neither an ethnicity nor a place. Because the early Christians understood this, they carried their missionary efforts to the entire world. God loves Ephesus just as much as he loves Jerusalem. Indeed, God loves the entire world and all its people equally.

    This is my ultimate concern: Christian Zionists believe in Jesus, but I wonder if they have lost the gospel. They have uncritically wed our faith to the politics of one nation, and this, as the church has learned so many times, is a prescription for disaster.

    https:

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  430. Fox says:

    Does God in the NT have a name? I don’t have the driving energy as so many commenters here to square the circle in order to find a common thread in a patchwork of stories as collected in the OT and the NT, but a god who gives commands to wipe out whole peoples and nations cannot possibly be the same Father in Heaven Jesus is speaking of. Yet that seems to be the stance of e.g. Mick Jagger, &. Did Jesus ever name God?

    • Replies: @Vasilios
  431. @Peter D. Bredon

    But, Jesus was not a money lender. (They accuse YOU of what THEY are doing)

  432. @Robjil

    “If someone says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.” 1John 4:20, 21

    • Agree: Robjil, Gapeseed
  433. Vasilios says:
    @Laurent Guyénot

    Well said and truly said,

    And let it be known for the record that there are Jews, raised as such, that agree with us, and have turned their faces. I recommend a viewing or three of A Serious Man for those that would disagree. I would assert that there are many Jews that would do as well if they only knew. Let us mine them, for nothing would be better for us than a 5th column in their midst.

    B

  434. Vasilios says:
    @Fox

    No. But I am a fan of the 99 names of God, per Islam, if one requires such. If not, God the Father suffices.

    • Replies: @Fox
    , @Assad al-islam
  435. “Did Jesus ever name God?”

    There are various refererences for God’s name. Here’s one that jesus used;

    Father

    I am that I am

    but two of many(?)

  436. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    “and about 90% of the sexual crimes committee dby the queer clergy as committed against adolescent males not children”

    At my age (early senior citizen), 15 year old boys and girls are still very much emotional children in the ways of the world, regardless the mask they wear as a result of their upbringing or untoward experiences.

    I’ve always found it odd that adults like yourself feel compelled to point out a semantic difference between a mature adult fucking a child, as opposed to a mature adult fucking a slightly more physically mature child.

    Perhaps this issue hits a little too close to home for you, or perhaps your god is a lawyer?

    Your Jeebus sure loved those lawyers. He loved almost as much as he loved the bankers & priests.

  437. Fox says:
    @Vasilios

    Thank you, I was just curious about the continuity some people perceive in passing from the book of Genesis to the Revelation of St.John.

  438. @Luther Pendragon

    Maybe, maybe not. Human presence on this planet is probably many 10s of thousands years older than most of us think. Our ancients had their ancients, who had their ancients, and so on.

    By coincidence, I just finished reading a chapter in Jason Reza Jorjani’s book Lovers of Sophia, called Black Sunrise. One of the contentions he makes is that Quetzalcoatl was an Atlantean explorer mistaken for a god due to his advanced technology. And Quetz was driven from the Americas by a baddie named Tezcatilpoca, another advanced traveler who started the practice of human sacrifice in America, and who Jorjani speculates was one and the same being as the Hebrews’ Yahweh.

    Maybe. Maybe not.

  439. @Archangel

    I must first deal with exposing the cucked Western male who is not homo/black/Asian/Jewish/Muslim. Before I can get a band of horsemen, the wheat and the chaff must be separated. Right now, it’s mostly chaff with which I’m dealing.

    The cucked GOP congress critters and the behind the scenes GOP establishment are enemy number one. Jew-controlled cucks at VDare and AmRen have been exposed. Insane anti-Semites like E. Michael Jones and Kevin MacDonald at Occidental Observer are other cucks.

    Guyenot has many articles at the cuck infested OCC website. Here is an article by Kevin MacDonald where he is not optimistic about the West’s future. https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2020/05/21/kevin-macdonald-im-not-optimistic-about-the-future-of-the-west/ He babbles about how non-whites will not preserve Western institutions and values. He refuses to deal with the fact that physical repatriation and separation are the only means of saving the West. Blacks will get their own state. Getting rid of dual citizenship will take care of the Jews. Deporting East Asians will be necessary. Illegals will go back to Latin America. These are concrete solutions, but the cucked Western male cannot deal with these. The best way of starting the process is by collapsing every Western institution built by the Western male. The RCC has collapsed because of diversity. Western universities have collapsed because of diversity.

    Guyenot cannot even state in what country he resides. He has been exposed.

  440. Nuncle says:

    This article, whether you agree with it or not, deserves a place in any reader containing essays on the question of Christianity’s place in European history.

  441. Phantasmagoric gnosis is foolishness
    Of vain imagination lacking witness.

  442. I think Guyenot is one of the best thinkers we have when it comes to understanding Jewry. I think he may not understand them genetically as I do but he gets to their ancient rooted philosophy and culture which really doesn’t change much essentially -and in a very accessible way for people like me who have a hard time reading the OT. I have read it several times but it is a headache and Guyenot’s analysis is in the best sense easy to read

    He being French, I imagine he is Catholic or of Catholic origin. Catholicism is really the Western Christian tradition that grasps the Jew. This is one reason why Jews and Semophile Anglo Protestants hate Catholicism. I say that as a person of Catholic origin who long ago left the Church. Unfortunately Catholicism was judaized by the time I got to it so priests and nuns never informed me about the people who would later, thru higher education, become so seminal in forming my consciousness which then led to a train wreck in my life. But antisemitism in the best sense as, the Catholic E Michael Jones argues, was at the center of the old Catholic teaching and I recently find that I do take certain pride in having once been associated with a Church that at least had a track record on the crucial issue of our time in the West. That may not make any rational sense but it is where I am.

    Anyway Guyenot is outstanding.

    • Agree: Robjil, Nuncle
    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @anarchyst
  443. Robjil says:
    @Achilles Wannabe

    The Sassoon’s and other Jewish families destruction of China in 19th century is something not many people know about. It is Old Testament mentality at large. Something the world has been seeing again and again for the past hundred years in the world since 12.23.1913. We are not “allowed” to notice though. It is anti-S to notice what the Top people are doing. This best trick of all by any Top people in history. The OT trick makes the Top people victims and oppressors at the same time.

    The destruction of the Yuan Ming Yuan, the 5000 year old Chinese cultural center, was a gigantic loss for all humanity. Its destruction was the OT tactics in action. Chinese of today must know all about this very well.

    Here is the long sordid tale of the Sassoon’s and the destruction of China in the 19th century.

    https://parsikhabar.net/news/the-dragon-awakens/18572/

  444. anarchyst says:
    @Achilles Wannabe

    The Vatican II “Ecumenical Council” was a successful “coup” committed by jews and protestants against the Catholic Church.

    It is FACT that “crypto-jews” adopted Catholicism, gaining positions as priests and bishops as a long-term plan to infiltrate the Catholic Church and destroy it from within. This has been going on for approximately one-hundred years…

    My position is that almost all “holocaust™” claims are a massive con, based on fabrications and lies, only used to extract shekels from the “goyim”. May I suggest looking into “holocaust™” revisionism. The revisionists make many very valid points about the impossibility of almost all holocaust™ claims and the fraudulent claim of the “six-million”. Not only that, the numbers do not support the engineering that would have been required to “pull off” such a stunt.

    In addition, many claims are scientifically impossible on their faces. From jewish lampshades, soap, shrunken heads, visible flames from crematoria stacks, the ability of inmates to tell when jews were being cremated by the color of smoke, etc. all are fabrications of the highest order

    If the holocaust™ is established fact, why are people being incarcerated for daring to question aspects of it? Truth cannot abide censorship.

    Pope Pius XII had to be careful during WW2 not to antagonize either Germany or Italy, both of which were Axis powers and could have wiped out the Vatican in one fell swoop.

    In pre-Vatican II days, the Church realized that jews WERE the “enemy”–not to be abused, but to be recognized as such, and that there was a jewish cabal residing within the Church hierarchy whose aim was to destroy the Church from within.

    The same situation exists with the homosexual problem in the Catholic clergy. The Catholic Church, being a worldwide institution has always had a much greater visible presence. Accordingly, its “problems” are more widely noted.

    These same “crypto-jews” being priests and bishops had a long time in which to wreak their havoc. In fact, it was these same “crypto-jew” bishops who accepted known homosexuals into the priesthood, as long as the candidates “promised not to act on their homosexual tendencies”–a disaster for the Catholic Church.

    There is a visceral hatred of the Catholic Church that exists widely among jews and protestants. Since the “mainstream media” is almost completely jew-owned, it is a convenient vehicle in which to spew its anti-Catholic hatred.

    Be aware that homosexual pedophilia is more rampant among protestant and jews, but is never noted as such. The Catholic Church IS attempting to remedy this problem.

    Yes, the Catholic Church has “warts”, just as all earthly institutions do, but to blame the Catholic Church for the world’s ills is clearly due to hatred, not fact.

    • Agree: Nuncle
    • Disagree: Gapeseed
  445. anonymous[600] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m a jew and I was always appaled by this practice. I could never fully accept it deep in my heart. cutting infants’ dicks is not normal.
    I would never want to do it to my kids. but shockingly almost everyone does that here in Israel, like even the most secular and irreligious.
    you make yourself stand out as a weirdo here if you denounce it. but like…. what can I say. it sounds weird to leave my own ethnicity forever by having non-jewish kids just because of dick-cutting. yet, honestly, that’s no small thing at all. and why wouldn’t I want to leave these people if being part of them means I have to cut young babies’ dicks?
    fuck I don’t know….

  446. Seraphim says:
    @anarchyst

    The Catholic, i.e. universal Church cannot be blamed for the world’s ills. The ‘Roman’ Church, i.e. ‘papal’ schism, can be blamed for many ills that it let creeping into the world since it cut its ties with the Universal Church and tried to impose its particular views as universal truths (papal theocracy, filioque, alteration of sacred rites – baptism in the first place and eucharist -, debasement of the sacred art of icons, tampering with the sacred Scriptures,elevating ‘philosophia’ above ‘theologia’) and thus becoming an ‘earthly’ institution. Protestantism took these deviations to their extremes further de-sacralizing the world..

  447. anarchyst says:
    @anonymous

    I like the way you think.
    “Male genital mutilation” is just as horrific as “female genital mutilation” and should be outlawed worldwide. If a person wants to get “clipped” as an adult, that is their choice. Infants don’t have a choice.

    • Agree: Robjil
  448. @anarchyst

    Yeah, it is interesting. I was raised Catholic but went to mostly WASP-Jewish schools We were all in it together on our atheistic rejection of religion but I always got the impression that Catholicism was lower on the decent into irrationality than Protestants or Judaism. A lot of the people I hung with went on to become Clintonists and now we are the usury pit of the world. Anglo Protestants are Jew wanabees