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Eighty years ago last month, the Axis powers invaded the former Yugoslavia during the Second World War. A new Serbian film, Dara of Jasenovac, depicts the systematic extermination of Serbs which followed under the Nazi-puppet government of the Independent State of Croatia. Despite consultation with reputable historians during production and a screenplay based upon witness testimony, its release has generated controversy among international film critics. An examination of the English-speaking reception to the Serbian entry for the 93rd Academy Awards shows a boilerplate negative response and pseudo-journalistic pile-on that is part of an anti-Serb bias in Western media ever since the NATO war on Yugoslavia in the 1990s. Despite recent attempts at closer relations with the West, Serbophobia remains a fixture in corporate media on account of Belgrade’s strong historical ties with Moscow amid the New Cold War between the U.S. and Russia.
One such example was a recent article featured in the arts and culture website Hyperallergic contrasting Dara of Jasenovac with Quo Vadis, Aida? (“Where are you going, Aida?”), a recent Bosnian film recounting the infamous 1995 Srebrenica massacre. It is no accident that the Bosnian drama was nominated for Best International Feature Film at the Oscars and is widely promoted by popular streaming services while its Serbian competitor has not been as fortunate. Although the Hyperallergic piece (by a Bosnian writer) is slightly more sympathetic than previous scathing indictments in the Los Angeles Times and Variety magazine where the former smeared Dara of Jasenovac as “Serbian nationalist propaganda” and the latter even dared question the historical accuracy of its portrayal of the Ustaša regime, it follows the same lockstep formula. In fact, even the most favorable write-ups include qualifications that as a Serbian state production, although the film may be historically accurate, there must be a hidden agenda behind it.
What none of these yellow journalists bother to explain is how any Serbian film can faithfully portray WWII history, during which Serbs were disproportionate victims at the hands of their fellow countrymen in collaboration with the Axis invaders, without provoking such accusations of nativism. The trumped-up charge is that the filmic representation of atrocities committed by the Ustaša during WWII is to somehow excuse or legitimate war crimes carried out five decades later during the Yugoslav Wars (of which Serbs were assigned excessive blame), when this too proceeds from a false historical premise. The breakup of the former Yugoslavia resulted in ethnic cleansing on all sides, but killings perpetrated by Serbs were given inordinate attention just as comparable massacres by Croats, Bosniaks and Kosovar Albanians were minimized and underreported. Morever, the socialist government in Belgrade singled out for regime change by NATO wasn’t responsible for the acts of Serbs within Bosnia and Croatia. More than twenty years later, the censure of Dara of Jasenovac is still cherry-picking worthy from unworthy victims in the Balkans.
The hypocrisy of Western presstitutes could not be more clear than in their coverage of two films depicting two different historical conflicts in the same region where genocide is said to have been committed. Perhaps it is the fact that the vast majority of victims in Jasenovac happened to be four times as many Eastern Orthodox Serbs as Jews that this lesser known chapter of Axis war crimes is rarely shown on the silver screen. Or maybe the reason World War II in Yugoslavia is seldom depicted in Hollywood is the complicity of the Croatian Catholic clergy in the Ustaša regime’s crimes against humanity which Dara of Jasenovac details from the perspective of a ten-year old Serb girl. Even though the film is explicitly clear that it was Ustaše ultra-nationalists who committed barbaric killings of which many Croatians were also victims, Variety’s Jay Weissberg still smeared the film as “anti-Croatian and anti-Catholic.” Nevertheless, it should be noted such Anglophone bias against Serbian cinema is nothing new, as similar criticism was previously leveled against Emir Kusturica’s Underground, despite the epic comedy-drama taking home the Palme D’Or at Cannes Film Festival in 1995.
Meanwhile, Variety had nothing but praise for Quo Vadis, Aida? and its narrative of a Bosnian United Nations translator whose family perishes in the Srebrenica enclave at the hands of Bosnian Serbs, much less any scrutiny toward its historical veracity. In reality, what happened in Srebrenica was a retaliatory slaughter after equivalent war crimes by Bosniak Muslims against Serbs in neighboring villages. Nevermind that the slanderous claim of implicit nativism hurled at Dara of Jasenovac is much more applicable to its Bosnian cinematic counterpart where Serbs as a nationality are relentlessly demonized. But what can you expect from the yellow press of a country which just elected Joe Biden? The then-Senator from Delaware not only supported the NATO assault on Serbia but was previously quoted as saying,“We should go to Belgrade and have a Japanese-German style occupation of that country”, “Serbs are illiterate degenerates, baby killers, butchers and rapists” and “all Serbs should be placed in Nazi-style concentration camps.” The highway in Kosovo which leads to Camp Bondsteel, the U.S. army base occupying the NATO protectorate, is even named after the American president’s late son, Beau. Anti-Serb racism is normalized from the top down.
If ethnic cleansing was committed on every side in the Yugoslav Wars, then by definition what occurred was a civil war, not genocide. Coincidentally, another new release, the HBO docuseries Exterminate All the Brutes by Haitian director Raoul Peck (I Am Not Your Negro, The Young Karl Marx), explores the history of European colonialism where various large-scale destructions of entire peoples occurred long before the Polish-Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin devised the term and the United Nations adopted the Genocide Convention in 1948. Peck’s ambitious project starts strong with a brilliant rethinking of Nazi Germany as a settler colonial state, a refreshing antithesis to the conventional historical narrative established by theorists like Karl Popper and Hannah Arendt which typically equate the Third Reich with the Soviet Union and truncates fascism from the timeline of European colonialism. Or as Frantz Fanon wrote in The Wretched of the Earth, “what is fascism if not colonialism when rooted in a traditionally colonialist country?”
Unfortunately, Peck later undermines his own attempt at heterodoxy by toeing the line on the Rwandan genocide, citing a personal friend in American historian Alison Des Forges, a senior advisor at the highly politicized and Western-biased Human Rights Watch. The same NGO also played a key role in building the anti-Belgrade partiality during the Yugoslav Wars and is a perfect example of how so-called ‘non-governmental organizations’ often paradoxically enjoy close connections with Washington. Meanwhile, according to the late Edward S. Herman in his book Enduring Lies, Alison Des Forges was one of the leading spin doctors shaping the popular discourse on the Rwandan conflict and creating support for actual génocidaire Paul Kagame, now a widely acknowledged war criminal. Mr. Peck should know better, having previously made two films about Patrice Lumumba, the first democratically-elected Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of the Congo overthrown in a 1961 CIA-backed coup, the same country which Kagame’s regime subsequently invaded and continued atrocities in the late 90s.
Peck then makes a race reductionist argument in determining the hypocritical reasons for the U.S. failure to prevent the bloody civil war where as many as a million Rwandans were killed while simultaneously launching a “humanitarian intervention” to ostensibly stop the same in Bosnia and Kosovo. While that may be partly true, would an incursion in Rwanda have been at all justifiable or desirable either? Nevermind that the U.S. did intervene in covert operations aiding the assassination of Hutu President Juvenal Habyarimana whose plane was shot down in a probable ‘false flag’ operation by Kagame’s C.I.A.-backed Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF), the very catalyst for the interethnic violence in the small African country. Like the disinformation during the Yugoslav Wars, the designation of the ethnic majority Hutus as sole aggressors and the Tutsi minority as pure victims was established in advance, even though both sides conducted pogroms.
Peck does not fully comprehend that ‘genocide’ itself has become a tool to justify the use of military force abroad on the basis of ending alleged human rights violations in countries targeted for regime change. On the one hand, the Haitian director does correctly observe that the invention of the phrase came a considerable time after the extermination of Native American indigenous peoples and the Atlantic slave trade where it is seldom applied. However, from its very inception following World War II there was an agenda behind its ratification and not just to give special status to Jewish victims of the Nazis above their inferior slavic and Romani fellow-sufferers so as to give grounds for genocidal Zionism in Palestine. Raphael Lemkin was also a Cold War hawk and peddled the Ukrainian nationalist propaganda and Hitlerite myth of the Holodomor (the real ‘holo-haux’) in order to slander the Soviets as genociders. From the get-go, the g-word was a political football for empire.
Sadly, the world recently lost one man who did understand the way the notion of “genocide” has become an instrument of war and emptied of its meaning. Last month, former U.S. Attorney General during the Lyndon B. Johnson administration, Ramsey Clark, died at 93 years of age after a long and storied career from Washington insider to fierce critic of American foreign policy. While most know Clark for his role in the civil rights movement and the Great Society, the human rights lawyer spent his controversial later life as a peace activist and opponent of imperialism. In particular, he was one of the select few on the Western left (along with Michael Parenti, Edward S. Herman, John Pilger, Diana Johnstone, Harold Pinter, Peter Handke and others) brave enough to tell the truth about the war in Yugoslavia while also famously providing legal counsel to former Serbian President Slobodan Milošević during his kangaroo trial in the Hague. At a time when most of the traditional anti-war “left” fell for the anti-Serb newspeak, Clark saw through the distortions used by NATO to justify its own carnage in Belgrade. With any luck, the left will follow his legacy and not gatekeepers who dress up war propaganda under the guise of championing human rights.
Max Parry is an independent journalist and geopolitical analyst. His writing has appeared widely in alternative media. Max may be reached at [email protected]
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All this goes over the head of 99.9% of all Americans who either don’t know that there is such a country somewhere out there and/or don’t care. The presstitudes can write whatever they want about such subjects since they have a monopoly on the public megaphone. Currently the public is being conditioned to have a negative reflex towards all things Russian,Iranian or Chinese as part of being prepped for possible war somewhere down the line. Everything is presented in a simplified two-dimensional good vs bad context which is about par for the average American mind. Whatever facts are actually presented through the media are spun; everything is spin, everything is political. To find the true story a person has to dig and do research, something most people can’t be bothered to spend ten minutes doing.
Why no mention of American atrocities committed in the region during World War II? American bombs killed more Serbians than German bombs.
Video Link
Oh my God, now on unz.com you are defending an old communist propaganda about Jasenovac, masqued as nationalist Serbian movement! You should do your own investigation, and consult a real Croatian historians and witnesses before posting such a rubish and destroying all your credibility.
Max, how about examining whether the charges of Serbian propaganda have any merit, rather than just dismissing them as the product of western anti-Serbian bigotry?
Have you seen the film yourself? What was your opinion?
Personally, I found it a dreadful bore. My own reading has led me to believe that the Jasenovac narrative, as retailed by Serbian nationalists (and before them Yugoslav communists), is rife with myths and exaggerations, and this film seems to exist merely to indulge them.
“the socialist government in Belgrade singled out for regime change by NATO wasn’t responsible for the acts of Serbs within Bosnia and Croatia.”
The propaganda fomented by Belgrade’s government incited it.
“the slanderous claim of implicit nativism hurled at Dara of Jasenovac is much more applicable to its Bosnian cinematic counterpart where Serbs as a nationality are relentlessly demonized.”
I didn’t see any ‘implicit nativism’ or ‘relentless demonization’ of people based on nationality portrayed in either film. So neither one can be ‘much more’ so than the other.
Rather, they are both accounts of the horrors of war.
“the Ukrainian nationalist propaganda and Hitlerite myth of the Holodomor (the real ‘holo-haux’)”
Really ?
“former Serbian President Slobodan Milošević during his kangaroo trial in the Hague.”
No bias here, I presume?
Otherwise, fair criticism in this piece of the west’s bias, lack of real journalism, and ignorance about these events.
You nailed it. Bravo.
Unfortunately for the victims in the Jasenovac extermination camp, the Ustashe officers (male and female) shown in the film (Luburić, Filipović, Vrban, Miloš, Šakić, Buždon…) were in fact much more horrible, monstrous and bloodthirsty and they rarely used fire arms. Their favorite weapons were knives, axes and mallets. Imagine that Michael Myers, Leatherface or Jason really existed and that they ran a concentration camp in World War II. Such were the Croatian Ustashe.
Gideon Greif, chief investigator of the Israeli Holocaust Institute, Shem Olam, has documented 57 methods of torture and killing in Jasenovac: the skinning, massacring by knives, beheading, the cutting off tongues, extremities and genitals, nailing a knife into a victim’s mouth, ripping the belly to pregnant women and removing unborn babies from their mothers’ wombs, ripping the lips to victims, breaking their hands, ripping off their breasts, drinking their blood….Victims were thrown into the fire alive, they were burnt with red-hot iron, they were killed with hammers, picks, butts, knives, axes, bombs, they were hanged and shot….Ustashe impaled children on knives, butchered them, smashed their heads, beheaded them, hit them to the walls or trees, poisoned them with gas…Even the German SS was shocked by the methods of the Ustashe.
Some of the readers of the shocking testimony of the survivor of the Jasenovac camp Egon Berger, 44 months in Jasenovac (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34826165-44-months-in-jasenovac) commented that they had to take breaks while reading this book because they were physically sick of what they had read.
A few of those ways of killing have been shown in the movie because such a film would be a splatter horror that could only be watched by fans of the horror genre, so the director had to soften the depiction of those crimes. In the movie Ustashe are mostly killing their victims with firearms.
Jasenovac was a working camp even before WW2. During WW2, according to the only true documents, 16000 people have been working in that camp at different times. Some of them have died from sickness and other causes which were quite numerous during war times. Jasenovac was never an extermination camp during WW2, but it has become one after the WW2, with the arrival of communists. In the meantime, the Chetnics – the Serbian mass slaughterers during WW2 – have sided with communists and after the war have murdered thousands of Ustashes by the methods you describe. And the communist propaganda has made the rest.
I hope that you will realise in what an illusion you are living in and that one day you will help to bring into light all the crimes Serbs have done against Jews, Albanians, Bosniacs and Croats. Because it is the truth and the repentance that will set the Serbian people free.
As a Croat, all I can say is:
So the soviets did not starve millions of peasants to death? The monstrous soviet union didn’t need slander the truth was damning enough.
Exactly.
Ridiculous claims about Jasenovac and more are thoroughly debunked here:
– Jasenovac: The ‘Cruelest’ Death Camp in the Entire Holocaust! Another part of the Big Lie.: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7328
– Croatian ‘death camps’ clams demolished: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8210
– Croatia / whitewashing the ‘holocaust’? What?: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2048
more:
https://forum.codoh.com/search.php?keywords=Jasenovac&fid%5B0%5D=2
Max Parry also shredded here: https://www.unz.com/?s=max+parry&Action=Search&ptype=all&commentsearch=only&commenter=Wally
Max Parry gets it right: on the Croatian Ustashe, on murderous Paul Kagame of the Tutsi RPF, on his list of authors who got it right over the Yugoslav breakup wars of the 1990’s, and on a truly good man, Ramsey Clark.
Yep, although if i recall correctly the “Bosnian Drama” didn’t win the Oscar in the end because any half-decent Danish movie (idk which one exactly one it) is better than fake “Srebrenica Genocide” propaganda (the Bosniak/Muslim investment in this is ultimately a failure despite bitch Hillary Clinton trying to hype it up, although whatever she touches she seems to ruin lol).
Yep.
Note Jay Weissenberg of Variety, an excellent truth pill for Serbs to understand that Jews are in fact their enemies, not their friends, let alone the deluded belief of many Serbs that “Jews and Serbs are fellow Holocaust victims” and especially that Jews think of Serbs as such.
Yep.
Another very important note here is that
The Jewish Zionist thug currently in charge of the US State Department, was Biden’s foreign policy advisor in the 1990’s, so those are his thoughts about Serbs, as much, if not more so than Biden’s.
Although delving into history and propaganda, especially in the Balkans can often get tiresome, it simply matters less and less. Fortunately for Serbs, as the USA continues to inevitably decline the anti-Serb biases of all the Jews and goys that control US foreign policy and the US military (air force in particular in the case of the Balkans) matters less and less as time passes, until it will become completely irrelevant when the US military is incapable or unwilling to project military force in the Balkans.
Nowadays, Jewish thugs like Anthony Blinken are very busy supporting “Israel’s right to defend itself”, pushing against Russia and pressuring Iran and etc.
Still, the Serb goyim are far from being completely out of danger as there are rumors of a withdrawal of KFOR peacekeepers (mostly a failure as they have and do allow many crimes against Serbs to happpen) from Kosovo, but not Camp Bondsteel, so that even though foreign occupiers will leave Serb Kosovo they will simply let the rabid Albanians run wild and pogrom the remaining Serb population while threatening another bombing. Republika Srpska is also in a precarious position as there are mixed signals on the one hand about US military intelligence preparations working to abolish it with US military force but on the other hand the USA simply being way too busy to execute that now.
These are the things that matter and the propaganda the author outlines above serves these political objectives. “Srebrenica Genocide” is an especially clear case as the whole thing is a myth based upon a lie distorted beyond absurdity and has no other purpose but serving as a casus belli deliberately kept alive in order to destroy Republika Srpska if some are willing to pull the trigger …
I have little use for Max Parry`s spin on most things, but he is correct about the trial.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2004/10/milo-o06.html
The bias about Milosevic is via his comment about Ramsay Clark. There was a pro Milosevic website that followed the “trial” daily, poking holes in the prosecution and providing statements from witnesses whom Milosevic was denied access. It claimed that Clark kept showing up to meet with Milosevic, uninvited, using up his limited number of visits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_Suljagi%C4%87
Emir Suljagić is a Bosnian journalist and politician who is currently the Director of the Srebrenica Genocide Memorial.
The important part by Emir Suljagic:
Jasenovac is a Chetnik hoax. The honorable Bosniaks of the [SS] Handschar Division missed the chance to reckown with the Chetniks, that’s why it’s left to us in the amanet.
You are clearly in good company you fucking Croat piece of shit …
Forgot to critique the author that this part is incorrect as Republika Srpska’s leadership has been repeatedly attacked by literally ever High Representative (international colonial governor) in Bosnia since Dayton was signed. There was a failed color revolution attempt against Milorad Dodik and the SNSD in ~2018 with some idiotic fake story about some “murder of David” at a swamp/pond around Banja Luka but it’s failed.
Yeah, that’s why the Croatian Spring and open nationalist demonstrations by Kosovo Albanians while Tito was alive, open Croat nationalist mass religious mission ceremonies in the 19080’s, and Alija Izetbegovic’s Islamic Declaration all happened years and decades before Slobodan Milosevic’s 1987 Kosovo speech and just reaction to the oppression and persecution of Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija …
Honestly, go fuck off and die with your bullshit.
What is here new? I, now and then, hear the usual Serbian stuff. It has been debunked , but it is meaningless to waste further time on them, or their irrational buddies.
https://www.unz.com/ldinh/balkans-ahead/?showcomments#comment-4073165
https://www.unz.com/ldinh/balkans-ahead/?showcomments#comment-4073434
What a dishonest little worm you are. As if I would possibly have any warm feelings towards some muslim turd who calls Handzar scum “honorable.” Even a Bardon Kaldian type – who I think is very far from any kind of Ustash – leaves me cold, because of his basic inability to get over the past and to accept that all groups have acted horribly towards each other in the name of ethnic nationalism and that there’s very little to be gained from playing the blame game.
Like an automaton, you post the exact same links every single time you comment. Can you actually make an argument or explain anything yourself? Also, it’s preposterous for a Trumpist like you to be talking about the deceitfulness of Zionism…
Well it seems Croats always had and still have an inferiority/superiority complex against the Serbs. I wonder why that is.
Whenever I try to work out exactly who did what to whom in Yugoslavia during the Second World War all that becomes clear is that someone is lying and possibly everybody.
…and oh yeah. A buncha people died.
It is a curious fact that Alison Des Forges died in the same plane crash that killed 9/11 truth seeker Beverly Eckert.
It was pilot error, they said.
Too uncomfortable, would expose (((huwhite nationalism))) even more.
According to Wikipedia, “Jasenovac was a concentration and extermination camp established in Slavonia by the authorities of the Independent State of Croatia (NDH) in occupied Yugoslavia during World War II. It was the only Concentration Camp, one of the ten largest in Europe, was established and operated by the governing Ustaše regime, which was the only quisling regime – the Vichy Regime in France? – in occupied Europe to operate extermination camps solely on their own for [Serbs] Jews and other ethnic groups”. The presence of Jews in the Camp is disputed. There were very few Jews in the Balkans any way.
The historic significance of the “western’ destruction of Yugoslavia is that it set in train the world imperialism of the post war yankee imperium. I was in Germany at the time and was surprised at the moves when they occurred. They were begun by the West German state mainly and it took some time for the new Clinton hostile taken over democrats to move forward with the liquidation of that country, which neoliberalism, the new post-war dominant politics, despised as a place where socialism of a different model continued to have a greater measure of success than the narrative required. Part of the immediate difficulty was that the Greek government at the time could see the negative aspects and in the early years opposed many of the actions taken to eliminate the Yugoslav system.
In Germany itself, rank and file Germans with experience realized that the Croatian leadership had associations with the Ustashe and knew the score. Also, a large proportion of the Balkan restaurants, in Germany at that time, which I’ll admit had good food no matter what the original politics of their owners was, had ex-Ustashe types running them., and ones that had been there indicated that the Albanian element later championed by the yankees were a criminal element, and a number of the Muslims were extremists, some of whom were later footsoldiers in the western usage of Islamic reactionaries as terrorists, obviously a problem down to this day. Again, the major historical aspect of Yugo dissolution is that it set the precedent for all yankee imperialist actions of the ensuing 30 years, up to the creation of the quisling Ukrainian regime.
Yet more evidence that Western presstitutes are very near the bottom of any human hierarchy, and that the West is the purest Evil. Imagine if some benign alien power had been watching Earth transmissions for decades, They would be bound to take some action to prevent Americanism escaping into the cosmos like some dreadful plague.
A typical example of hasbara pilpul is to declare, utterly falsely, that facts have been ‘debunked’. Lying just comes naturally to some low creatures, Zionazis in particular.
The Srebrenica ‘genocide’ is almost as fraudulent as the ‘Uighur Genocide’. In the end at most c.500 Bosnian males were murdered by a few Serb thugs. The figure of 8000 is totally fraudulent. And what sort of genocidists are Serbs who bussed women and children and old men to safety after the jihadist stronghold, from which numerous massacres were launched, was taken?As with EVERYTHING in the Western Imperial discourse this is lie piled upon lie.
I know very little indeed about the Balkans & its history, but I have learnt one thing from the comments here — this history provokes strong, indeed violent passions.
Another subject that I should look into…..
Video Link
Croatian Wikipedia seems to be quite “based” (from the Croatian perspective.
Regarding the Rwandan genocide, the official low estimate is 800,000 killed. In 100 days. That’s 8000 per day, 1 every 11 seconds. It’s a logistical impossibility. Just as the 8,000 executed males in Srebrenica in less than days are a logistical impossibility.
On a side note, expect Croats, Albanians, so-called Bosniaks to descend on this thread. As a Serb, all I have to say of them is that there isn’t an occupier they haven’t greeted with flowers and there isn’t one they haven’t stabbed in the back while he was leaving. The funny thing is that while Serb resisted, they sided with the Nazis and yet Jews sided with them and demonised Serbs.
As the Serb poet Jovan Dučić said, “the Croats are the bravest people in the world, not because they fear nothing, because they are ashamed of nothing”. Croats, Albanians, Bosniaks and Jews are brothers in shamelessness.
Very true. Just because much of the narrative is true, it does not mean the primary motive is not Serb political agenda. And yes, Serb myths and exaggerations about this are staggering.
In fact, you may criticise US media, but you should see the state of Serb media where anything bad that happened to Serbs is magnified by 10x while Serb crimes are minimized beyond belief. Not that Croats are much better, though.
Serbia, Russia, China…
Charge NATO for crimes against humanities at the ICC.
fROM the horse mouth, Reuters
no less,
Double tapping, a fukus speciality.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120115150147/http://home.windstream.net/dwrighsr/a3820cf4d2861.html
78 days of bombings on ex Yugo, during which no of bombs hitting Serb civilians exceeded the entire tonnage dropped in ww2
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/europe/2021-05/19/c_139954408.htm
ONly the Czech have the courage to admit guilt and apologise to the Serbs,
It strikes me that Croatians will end up cucking to whoever is in power at the moment, from Ustaša to now being loyal ZOG servants. Say what you will about Serbians, but at least they are not the spineless type like the Croatians.
Did not.
But as far as I can see, the “Press is the Country” as far as foreign affairs go. Face it, the reporters for these liars have been living in sequestered, ritzy zip codes for a half-century now. They go to the same institutions as the Permanent Establishment. They are the country, not the people who do the work and live among the ruins.
Truly, most Americans support the Serb. Having demonstrated for them in the 90s I know. But we had no say in national affairs, then or now.
“extermination of Native American indigenous peoples ” Yea , ummmm, no I don’t think so. You bleeding heart lib fools need to STFU! Plenty of Native Americans alive and well and if anything, as one Native American wrote himself, “we are lucky the White man put us on reservations”…are people and culture are not being bred out by low IQ blacks and Muzzies. Only stupid weak cuck and liberal Whites allow the destruction of her own people.
What this has got to do with Croatian Wikipedia?
If we are to believe “world attention”, which lasts for some time, we should also believe that Saddam possessed some magic dirty weapons, or that over 4 million people perished in Auschwitz. The original, English Wikipedia is a mixture-great primary source for most areas, but suspect for those considered controversial & highly vulnerable to organized propaganda groups, in this case proponents of pro-Yugoslav mythology and, generally, leftist world-view which is, now, still dominant in the West, with all its good and bad traits.
And “bad traits” are, among others, historical falsities which are remnant of WW2.
Rooting for Serbian losers, eh?
https://www.unz.com/article/the-nobel-prize-in-literature-and-the-politics-of-selective-outrage/#comment-3531098
So you haven’t seen the movie.
The Ustashi were the most vile criminals of modern times. Even the Nazis and Zionists, in their sickest fantasies, can’t compare.
That is an age old problem between a colonising power and a colonised one.
It becomes simple when you realize certain peoples have turned into genetic antiserbs.
The Independent State of Croatia’s only match is ISIS. The horrors in Syria, especially against children, reminded me of the horrors by the Ustashe, as in Prebilovci.
Please, don’t tell me the once mighty Serbs are jumping on the victim bandwagon. The Serbs fought, and lost. Too bad for them, but please don’t try to pretend they were without guilt. I’ve known men from at least 3 sides of that recent conflict and all have told stories of horror, the Serbs weren’t shy fighters at all. And they readily told stories of what many would consider war crimes. And being proud of being on the side of the communists in WW2 should be a mark of shame, not pride. Kind of strange that some think the reds, who killed at least a hundred times more than the fascists, and raped their way through Central Europe, were the good guys. Finally, there was no extermination of American Indians, anyone who writes that is obviously historically ignorant.
The short version is they hate each other. No alliance should be made with any of their countries. Finally just let them be, and they’ll figure things out.
Well, Michael McCaffrey has nothing good to say about ‘Exterminate All the Brutes’ at RT.com:
White supremacy is worth investigating, but HBO’s pretentious & infantile ‘Exterminate All the Brutes’ has nothing original to say
etc. etc.
It’s all Whitey’s fault anyway and everybody (including Rwandans) lived peacefully before something happened which can be traced back to Emmett Till, Slavery, Colonialism, the CIA or all of them.
And I’m not convinced that the Rwandan ultrakill is a “western narrative”, because then so is the Holocaust.
This article might be a a little different because it’s mostly about Serbs fighting Croatians but it reminds me of something .This article brings to mind something very strange I have noticed about the WW II narrative pushed. But maybe it’s not so strange when you think about it. All the countries and peoples that thanked and helped the Germans because they were grateful for help against the mass murdering USSR are all depicted as bad in the WW II narrative. They were the victims but many want to portray the victims as the ones to be blamed. The USSR sent troops into and took over the Baltic states in 1940 and they sent thousands of nationalists to far ends of the USSR, some never seen again, others returning long after the war ended. They also killed many nationalists. For this reason Estonia and Latvia were grateful to be liberated and both countries formed legions and fought alongside the Germans against the USSR. The Jews were a major part of the Soviet leadership, indeed they completely dominated the first Soviet government. The Jews played a major role in the secret police, many or most of the commissars were Jewish and according to one book every Gulag except one was run by a Jew. Jews were leading mass murderers and their victims took revenge on them during the war when they could.
Similarly, tens of millions of Slavs were killed by the Soviet state in Ukraine, Belarus and Russia before the war started and many Soviets welcomed the German army as liberators from their would be Soviet murderers, with Jews leading the USSR. But does anyone remember those millions of victims. No, and liars deny the Soviet atrocities. Similarly, they are ignorant of or deny the large numbers of Soviets that welcomed the German army as liberators and when they are then shown a books and films as evidence saying many people saw their Soviet government as their enemy, they then turn on the victims and blame them. Millions of Ukrainians were killed too and they joined up with the Germans to fight the Soviets too. The Ukrainians were the victims of Jewish and Soviet murderers but many idiots blame the Ukrainians because they have been lied to their whole lives and they think they are being lied to when confronted with these things. They call the victims, the Ukrainians, “NAZIS”
The main reason for this lying, covering up the dirty deeds of the USSR, covering up that large numbers of Soviets saw Germans as liberators and that many joined up with the Germans against their oppressors is that the Soviets allies (France, USA and Great Britain) supported and enabled the Soviet murderers. But an even bigger reason than that is that Jews demand that they always be seen as the powerless victims, even when they were in charge and the main mass murderers. So, instead of eastern European countries having memorials to themselves, they erect memorials all across Europe to their murderers, the Jews, those they fought against – their enemies. Since the commissars and others in power were not around, it was other Jews that sometimes paid the price.
In a 2001 piece in the Atlantic “Bystanders to Genocide” Samantha Power (yes, that one) lays out the sinister language that Susan Rice (yes that one) used in their cynical approach to using the word genocide regarding the events in Rwanda because of what effect its use, in the face of having done nothing about it, would have on the upcoming ‘mid-terms’. Long but worth a read in light of the current power structure.
Hey boys,
What’s about Tito’s genocide of the Danube Swabians. No, no, no only the defeated murdered innocent people.
sounds like what the bolshevik jews have done in the early Soviet Union
I’m the dishonest little worm???
At least i’m not a cowardly piece of shit that’s completely abandoned and betrayed the inheritance and spirit of my Serb ancestors and chosen to functionally become a Croat – politically, socially, morally and perhaps unconsciously, nationally as well.
You’re clearly on the same team and in agreement with Emir Suljagic, Bardon Kaldian and co. when it comes to the issue of Jasenovac (and all the Serbs are inherently bad and it’s all their fault talking points) …
Just so we’re clear, the unfortunate truth is that the total number of Serbs that were truly murdered in the Independent State of Croatia from 1941-1945 is not really known (and who knows if it will ever be) although there are many estimates. Some more objective scholars posit ~400,000, logically meaning that this is an absolute minimum (although a reasonable one to build a basic universal consensus of any sort) and in fact undercount, even though the number is definitely higher because because of Croat cover ups of evidence from 1944-45 and Tito the Croat burying (literally in some cases) the evidence underground …
It would be nice to believe that you’re genuinely this naive …
If you haven’t noticed, ever since 1991 the blame game has immensely payed off for Croats, Bosniaks/Muslims and Albanians to hysterically screech “GrEAtER sErbIAn agGREsSioN aND GENocIDe” along with manipulating international media perceptions (by teaming with international Jewry, or rather Jewry teaming with them) to oblivion and staging all sorts of false flag events/incidents so US military force could be decisively used against Serbs, which has worked to great effect …
Ya – the Obama meeting 5 days before that plane crash , says it all – 1 plane – 2 kills. Better than a drone hit even. The US/NWO assassination teams have the whole law enforcement, Media, FAA, Alphabet agencies and Judicial system , in their pockets – national and internationally speaking. Killing for National Security has taken a whole new meaning .
The Jew loves the Bosnian (Muslim) and hates the Serb (Christian) and uses the Catholic (pseudo) to punish the brave.
That’s because Croats are a fake nation who have been nothing but stable boys and horse groomers of Austrian emperors for centuries that got liberated by Serbs in 1918 into a union of equals (single worst mistake in all of Serb history ever made), only to then repay Serbs with genocide less than 23 years later.
According o Croatian-German historian Vladimir Geiger, in Communist Yugoslav CC died or were murdered ca. 70,000 Germans, both civilians and war prisoners. I’ve read this sci paper in English, but cannot find it anymore.
Geiger has published a book about victimology of Germans in post-war Yugoslavia, as well as number of articles, mostly in Croatian, but some also in German or English.
https://www.ceeol.com/search/article-detail?id=413649
In this article in Croatian, Geiger writes:
https://hrcak.srce.hr/97937
English, Google translate
Below we see Bardon Kaldian in his natural habitat:
Bardon Kaldian the stable boy
Bardon Kaldian proudly practicing his horse grooming skills like a true Croat
The only mass-murderers were the German Nazis.
And the only ‘peoples’ that ‘thanked’ and ‘helped’ the invading Nazi scum were German settlers, known as Volkdeutche, who were living in all the countries of Eastern Europe—Poland, Czechia, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Russia and others.
They were shown the door in 1945 by all the NATIVE peoples of those countries:
Video Link
In some cases, as in Czechia, those same Germans that welcomed Hitler were treated far more roughly:
Video Link
In Yugoslavia the Partisans were able to liberate their country on their own.
By 1944, Partisan forces in Yugoslavia numbered 650,000 men and women, organized in four field armies with 52 divisions.
Iconic photo ‘Kozarchanka’ of Yugoslav Partisan fighter Milja Marin, [in reference to the Kozara Mountains in Bosnia where her unit fought].
By 1945, the Yugoslav Partisans numbered 800,000 and were reorganized into the regular armed forces of Yugoslavia. Serbs and Croats made up most of these anti-Nazi fighters. Most Croats were in the Partisans and wanted nothing to do with the genocidal Ustasha. Even the Nazi officers recoiled at what they saw in Jasenovac.
In General Horstenau’s words:
—Ein General im Zwielicht: die Erinnerungen Edmund Glaises von
By Edmund Glaise von Horstenau, Peter Broucek, page 166, 167.
—War and Revolution in Yugoslavia, 1941-1945: Occupation and Collaboration, Stanford university Press, 2001
The Ustashe themselves gave more exaggerated numbers in their bragging:
—Genocide in Satellite Croatia, 1941-1945: A Record of Racial and Religious Persecutions and Massacres, Edmund Paris, pages 132.
In the 1980s I visited Yugoslavia—I was studying in Dresden, East Germany, and Yugoslavia was a popular tourist destination in the entire Eastern bloc.
Our tour group visited the Jasenovac memorial and camp in what is now Croatia. It was very impressive in terms of professionalism in curation and the experience was of a top-notch museum. today that museum and memorial doesn’t exist, and the memorial itself is in ruins. A testament to the rewriting of history that is encouraged by the rotten west.
Most people in former Yugoslavia are now very nostalgic for the country’s socialist era—even in Croatia there is a substantial minority. This is true of course in all the former socialist countries, as polls have shown—a slap in the face to the silly media narrative of how ‘bad’ those folks had it.
The west, led by the US, itself led by the Jewish-dominated media and academia is a completely fake construct from beginning to end. Nothing that is in the media or political agenda has any connection to reality, and their specialty is standing the historical truth on its head.
Try harder Коњушару (horse groomer)
The brave? Sure ….
In ex-Yugoslavia Serbs constituted c. 36% of population in 1990. Strong Serbianization of JNA had begun in 1987 (they’d been preparing for their greater Serbian adventures); there are texts in Croatian, but most people would not understand, so I’ll give just a link in English: https://www.hercegbosna.org/STARO/download-eng/Domazet_transformation.pdf
How Aggression Against Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina Was Prepared or the Transformation of the JNA into a Serbian Imperial Force
Federal Yugoslav Army/JNA had been financed by all Yugoslav republics (Serbia plus Montenegro 36%, Croatia 28%, Slovenia 19%,..). So, Serbs literally “stole” all these planes, tanks, ships, rockets, guns, howitzers, … and, via their fifth column, Croatian Serbs, embarked upon their provincial imperial expansion: they wanted to occupy the entire Bosnia and Herzegovina & ca. 70% of Croatia. This was a combined aggression: Serbia proper + Montenegro +JNA + Croatian, later Bosnian Serbs.
Had they not possessed/stolen all others’ arms, there would have been no war.
Croatia did try, during 1990 & early 1991, to import as many arms as possible for her police (there was a legal loophole), but she was prevented by Serbian-Yugoslav authorities, as well as European countries & US, which gave green light to Serbs to finish off the job of occupying Croatia (Slovenia was let free to go). UN resolution 713 on “arms embargo” (https://www.sipri.org/databases/embargoes/un_arms_embargoes/yugoslavia/yugoslavia-1991) was actually the encouragement of greater Serbia forces, who took JNA under its control, to occupy Croatia & most of the rest of Yugoslavia-except Slovenia.
To paraphrase FDR- this day will live in infamy, at least for us. It was American, European, Soviet, Chinese,… politics, fully supporting 1/3rd of a people of one country to impose terror, ethnic cleansing, dictatorship & eventually mass murder- with their blessing; nay, cooperation.
But- we were more resistant then US & EU hoped. NATO strategists calculated that Serbianized JNA would occupy entire Croatia in two weeks; it took her almost 3 months to subdue one city, Vukovar. True, we suffered many losses & lost, until the end of 1991, c. 25% of our territory – but we never surrendered. We didn’t succeed to import any significant amount of weapons (only some AKs & a small amount of anti-tank missiles); yet, we- against explicit wishes of the US (James Baker, Cyrus Vance,..) succeeded to capture a part of JNA barracks located in Croatia, with a number of tanks, rocket launchers etc. This was perhaps 15-20% of all that was in Croatia (not even remotely close to 28% of all that belonged to the JNA, and which would be fair in a dissolution of a country- but then, there would have been no war, because Serbs are strong only when they fight against the disarmed).
To illustrate Serbian military “capability”, let’s see figures of soldiers who died in the battles during Bosnian war 1992-1995, fighting on various sides: CF stands for Croatian forces, SF- Serbian forces, MF- Muslim forces. Serbs possessed perhaps 70% of all arms, Croats c. 15-20%, Bosnian Muslims c. 10-15%. Data are from the book authored by Mirsad Tokača, financed by Norwegian government & international community to establish facts on the number of all victims of that war; also, I’ll just write down military casualties & omit civilians (who are predominantly Muslim):
In their war, among 3 sides, from 1992 to 1995:
SF killed 2600 CF soldiers and 24,000 MF soldiers
CF killed 7500 SF soldiers and 6000 MF soldiers
MF killed 3000 CF soldiers and 13,300 SF soldiers
So much for Serbian fighting prowess.
Allied and Soviet atrocity propaganda has proven to be a mendacious exercise in projection, i.e., to cover up the atrocities and mass murder committed by the Allies which dwarf anything realistically imputed to the Third Reich and its allies and auxiliaries.
The principal reason this particular movie is being smeared has nothing to do with the Second World War itself. Quite the contrary, it is because Russia (along with its potential and presumptive allies) is now the most powerful military adversary of the global order founded upon International Zionist/ Euro-Atlanticist financial and political hegemony. The latter includes the imposition of globohomo and the destruction of all authentic and traditional spirituality.
sIn other words, Russia is adversarial to the same internationalist forces-sartor resartus– that the Third Reich opposed in its own day. Allies come and go but the interests are permanent.
That having been said, the forces fighting against the Pavelic regime in the Yugoslav civil war are also accused of committing terrible atrocities of their own:
So, 1,000 mass graves have been found to date, according to the article.
That outpaces the number of “Holocaust” mass graves by a factor of 1,000 to almost zero.
Indeed – holocaust deniers refuse to accept that 750,000 innocents were murdered at the various death camps of the Jasenovac complex.
Jasenovac was the only death camp not origanized by the German Nazis.
A decent 1983 documentary on Jasenovac
Video Link
My guess is the Croat inferiority complex stems from the simple fact that 80% ( or more depending on the source ) of Croatians were serfs until 1848. Orthodox Christians, Hungarians, Italians, Jews, Germans were all freemen. Orthodox Christians always formed the professional and entrepreneur elite in the Triume Kingdom ( Croatia, Slavonia, and Dalmatia ) .
‘Croats, Albanians, Bosniaks and Jews are brothers in shamelessness.’
That is to say, all your neighbors. Or perhaps Serbs have a high opinion of Bulgarians and Hungarians?
Romania touches Serbia these days. What do you think of Romanians?
When you portray me as deliberately siding with Serb-haters because I am anti-Serb myself, then yes, you are dishonest – or a moron, take your pick.
Excuse me, “the issue of Jasenovac” is most certainly not that “all Serbs are inherently bad” – this is pure invention on your part, I’ve said nothing even resembling it – or that everything is Serbs’ fault.
It’s unfortunately something of a cliche to point out that conflicts often have “complex roots,” and yet it’s also quite true. That means the history of this conflict can’t be reduced to a simplistic good guys and bad guys, in which one group is wholly right and the other group wholly wrong, and that our task is thus to simply open the world’s eyes to the complete depravity of the other side – which is what movies like this Dara trash attempt to do.
That was in the middle of a war. Obviously, in a war you do whatever you can to gain an advantage. You, of course, are very keen to get Serbs into another war; I am not. I therefore have little interest in running around and crying that everyone is out to get us and pretending that we, alone, were innocent little angels.
Is it “naive” to notice that “ancient enemies” have patched up their differences all throughout history? I don’t think so. I think it requires deliberate blindness to fail to see it, or to pretend that we are incapable of doing the same.
I was going to compile a list of all the falsehoods in your post — but that really doesn’t sound very interesting.
I think I’ll just set you to ‘ignore’ instead.
‘…It is estimated that of the approximately 500,000 Germans who lived in Yugoslavia until the end of World War II, about 240,000 were evacuated before the onslaught of the Red Army and the NOV and POJ and never returned to their homes. If we do not count the Volksdeutscher mobilized in various military units, about 200,000 German civilians fell under communist rule in Yugoslavia. A quarter of them died in concentration camps, while the rest disappeared during ethnic cleansing or had to escape. About 170,000 people were interned in the camps from the end of 1944 to the beginning of 1948. At least about 50,000 to 60,000 members of the German minority were killed in post-war Yugoslav concentration camps…’
I’ve read some accounts of that. Fortunately for those Germans who did manage to escape and get into Hungary, the ordinary Hungarian people proved relatively sympathetic and helpful.
Something similar happened to Germans who managed to get out of East Prussia and into Lithuania. There too the local people proved friendly. Some Germans even succeeded in passing themselves off as Lithuanians and lived out their lives there.
Thank you FB , it is incredible to see foreigner to know so much history of my country
Seems like Europeans of all sorts worked hard to free up space for the current flow of “refugees” who kept multiplying during all this WWII drama.
Speaking of propaganda AOC is lying again about the so called insurrection. She was already caught lying before, now she’s doing it again. We have the biggest liars in office today, shameless people with not the slightest guilt when it comes to out and out lying.
I don’t think anything in particular of Bulgarians or Hungarians. Whatever our past disputes, I have no reason to consider them to be the crap I consider the Croats to be.
As for Romanians, I don’t remember that Serbs have ever had any dispute with them and I am grateful for their position regarding Kosovo.
I was in Serbian army during war and 8700 is all victims from 1992-1995 they put everything together
It was set up for Serbs again nothing without Jews . Serbian army had one special unit called “deseti diversantski odred ” or diversion battalion financed by Jews and I have seen David star on unit own stamp . Strange thing unit was mixed with Croats, Slovenians, Muslims and Serbs . They killed 1200 Muslim soldiers under order of Colonel Beara . Serbs committed war crimes no question but there was not genocide they let go all women kids and old people . There was one incident for example when captured Muslim soldier stole Ak47 from Serbian police officer and after Serbs killed 300+ . Also that area in Bosnia is famous for war crimes on both sides during ww2 Muslims were members of Nazi Ustasha regime they killed lot of Serbs and Chetniks units killed as a revenge lot of Muslim civilians
During last war they had local mob ex Serbian police officer Naser Oric who was commander of Muslim army in Srebrenica , they killed lot of civilians around Srebrenica so it is crazy to understand I have thousands documents and I am confused average westerner have zero understanding of what happened
Do not write nonsense you have zero knowledge about
Jasenovac and many other camps were worst of all during WW2
Let’s see, which of the three books I cited from were you going to expose as ‘falsehoods’?
1. The book by Wehrmacht general, and later vice-chancellor of Austria, Edmund Glaise von Horstenau:
—Edmund Glaise von Horstenau
—Ein General im Zwielicht, Edmund Glaise Hortenau
—General Edmund Glaise von Horstenau to the OKW, 10 July 1941; report to Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler from the Geheime Staatspolizei, dated 17 February 1942
Please do go ahead and start your ‘debunking.’
In an earlier comment here you said this:
So you are ‘trying to work out’ something? How very interesting. Maybe you can start with those three books I linked to?
And then you sign off with this:
Well done! Please do let us know what you have ‘worked out!’
There was no Hutu-on-Tutsi pogrom in Rwanda. There was a genocide of Hutus by Tutsi invaders from Uganda, supported by some but not all Tutsis in Rwanda, which continued well past the alleged end of the “Rwanda genocide”. Desperate attempts by Hutu civilians and the underarmed Rwandan army and gendarmerie to defend themselves were twisted into a “Rwandan genocide ” where, of course, the blame was all for the Hutus.
No liar. I showed you films of grateful Slavs in Ukraine and Belarus that welcomed the Germans and joined the Germans as soldiers. Latvians and Estonians did the same, and I showed you a book from a Norwegian academic that said people from Russia were grateful to the Germans too. The USSR murdered millions of its own people. Nobel Prize winning writer Alexander Solzhenitsyn has written great books on this. Why do you lie?
Also, the other article on Suvorov’s book says the USSR was going to invade Germany and Germany’s attack was a pre-emptive strike. Why do you lie? You claim the Germans were the aggressors.
Bullshit. All the Germans were kicked out of all those countries. Some ‘gratitude.’
Video Link
Last Germans leave Czechoslovakia, 1946
Video Link
Czech partisans and US soldiers round up German soldiers and civilian sympathizers
Look, you’re just a ridiculous Nazi apologist who lives in some kind of fantasy world. You’re not alone here on this website, but I would imagine that you probably don’t try to pull this Hitler fanboy stuff with your neighbors or workmates.
Of course there are some losers here and there that try. Have a look at this upstanding citizen, and that tar paper shack he lives in:
Video Link
Totally agree with Parry, although most Americans “know” only what they read in their biased imperial press or are too young to remenber the destruction of Yugoslavia. And good that you mentioned Paris-based Diana Johnstone, who actually knows the subject, reported extensively about the NATO war on Serbia and is quite sympathetic to the Serbs. Her latest book, Circle in the Darkness, contains her insider account of the systemic demonization of Serbia and its leader, probably murdered in the custody of a kangaroo war crimes court in Brussels,
Good for that ol’ boy.
Happy to see he’s flying the Confederate Naval Jack as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_Semmes
You little Leftist fags always were quite sensitive about being called mean names and having to view the occasional contrary symbol…lol
There’s a bunch of graves you should be digging up. Max.
The Americans also bombed Switzerland, as I recall.
Milosevic was definitely murdered. He was making mincemeat of the kangaroo court, overseen by a totally biased (as are most UK judicial thugs-see Assange) Blairite UK thug, Richard May. Milosevic was poisoned with Rifampicin, an anti-TB medication that turns your piss pink to purple, and which has a little known side-effect of interfering with the type of cardiac medication Milosevic was on.
Some non-compliant Tutsis were murdered too. That the Western fakestream media vermin turned the facts entirely on their head, and lie to today, or simply go along to protect their careers, is just another indictment of the total Evil of the ‘Free Press’.
Lumping everyone from some ‘ethnic’ or ‘religious’ group into a single category of saints or sinners is primary school-yard level thinking, plus murder, of course, as its inevitable outcome. The ‘leaderships’ of most groups are the worst among those groups, with very occasional exceptions like the CCP in China today. Why that is so, when many, and most, of populations in the nearly all cases are decent people, is a conundrum, with unpleasant solutions. And conflict inevitably makes the situation worse, which is why devils like Bibi enjoy it so much.
jews smear…?
I’ll wipe.
A normal day in the Balkans:
According to Isabelle Wesselingh and Arnaud Vaulerin, Raw Memory, p. 205:
“Vladimir Zerjavic, a Croat, puts the number at eighty-three thousand victims. Bogoljub Kocovic, a Serb, estimates the number of deaths at Jasenovac at seventy thousand.”
It sounds like there’s a pretty fair agreement that the numbers which were widely publicized in older times were seriously inflated.
Assuming that scholarship is indeed conclusive.
And even if it is, that number of just under one hundred thousand innocent folks is enough to fill an NFL stadium.
But numbers aren’t everything. It’s the bestiality of the killings at Jasenovac, as described by the German officers and others, that gives pause. Mengele didn’t kill a million folks either, in fact far fewer than those numbers your source has tossed out—yet he occupies a unique position in the limits of human depravity.
And then there are the mass pogroms in the rural areas, where many more folks perished than in Jasenovac itself. Anyone can go on a driving tour through rural Bosnia and see those commemorative plaques everywhere—with names and ages of victims. The most common method was to toss them in deep pits and crevasses in the mountainous region.
Again, this genocidal activity was reported by the Germans also. See my comment 58 above:
—War and Revolution in Yugoslavia, 1941-1945: Occupation and Collaboration
The NDH being the Independent State of Croatia [Nezavisna Država Hrvatska], which included all of Bosnia.
—Yeomans, Rory [2012]. Visions of Annihilation: The Ustasha Regime and the Cultural Politics of Fascism, 1941–1945. Pittsburgh: University of Pittsburgh Press.
—Charles King, Cambridge University Press [2012]
“Socialism of a different model” where the government holds resources in trust for the benefit of the people, and the people are able to use the resources in a free market manner to benefit all of society.
The US also had a distantly related form of “market socialism” in the federally owned western lands managed by the BLM (Bureau of Land Management – NOT black lives matter) and the National Forest bureaucracy wherein citizens could use resources for farming, ranching, forestry, and mining overseen by the government agencies to insure fairness and prevent overuse and environmental degradation.
In both cases the big bankers and big politicians got greedy, and sought to take away the resources from the regular people and take them over for themselves. In Yugoslavia, it meant destroying that country and fanning old hatreds from WW2 and before to put Yugoslav against Yugoslav, and then taking their resources away from them, especially in Kosovo with its’ goldmines. In the Western US it meant kicking ranchers and farmers off of their communally owned (through the government) land resulting in first the Sagebrush Rebellion and then in the Cliven Bundy incident and the murder of Lavoy Finnicum by Federal agents.
Ustashi bus public transportation
“… clear is that someone is lying and possibly everybody…” – True but some are lying more and some were worse than other and among them the Croats were the worst.
And this is Bardon Kaldian’s favorite farm tool: Srbosjek
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srbosjek
…We knew that.
Well Mumble, that General’s “Troll” flack just means you are over the target!
We mustn’t forget that Serbians didn’t just rape and murder thousands upon thousands of their Yugoslavian “brothers” (Bosnians, Croats, Macedonians, Albanians and Slovenes). The murdering rapist Serbes also excerised this blood lust on the Donauschwaben (Danube Swabians):
It sure looks to me that those glorious Serbs and their sadistic Russian cousins murdered 350,000-32,000=318,000 Donauschwabians. Yet they never stop their yammering.
Of course there were also all the thousands upon thousands of Italians who were ethnically cleansed and genocided by those glorious Serbian communists all along the Dalmation coast.
We’ll never know for sure how many thousands of Italians were murdered by the Serbs, but we can learn a little about Serbian blood lust from the Foibe massacres
“And the only ‘peoples’ that ‘thanked’ and ‘helped’ the invading Nazi scum were German settlers, known as Volkdeutche, who were living in all the countries of Eastern Europe—Poland, Czechia, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Russia and others.
They were shown the door in 1945 by all the NATIVE peoples of those countries”
You apparently take pride in the war crimes committed against Germans, stealing their land, stealing everything from them, driving as many as 20 million Germans off lands they had lived on since the middle ages, murdering many and the allied soldiers, British and Americans too, but especially Soviets gang raping 2 million German women at the urging of subhuman Bolshevik Jew propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg, buried in Israel, the people and country he was loyal to, not the Soviet Union.
And why wouldn’t the Germans support Germany and Hitler, especially those under foreign occupation? Poland, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia were created in 1919. Poland was recreated and Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia had never existed before. Millions of Germans were suddenly placed under foreign occupation (ripped from their native lands) in the newly created states Poland, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia or what the allies euphemistically called “Free States”, cities like Danzig and Memel (my mothers birthplace) that were ripped from Germany and placed under foreign control. Those Germans lived on German and Austrian lands and in 1919 those countries were broken up and divided to create countries like Czechoslovalia, which had never existed before. Czechs and Slovaks lived in the Austrian Empire, which then became known as the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the 19th century. When Czechoslovakia was created in 1919 three and a half million German speaking Austrians suddenly became Czechs. “Native lands”, you asshole. Czechoslovakia’s new capital Prague was as much a German city as a Czech city. It was once the capital of the Austrian Empire and it had a German majority population until I believe the 1700’s, you ignorant, lying big mouth.
You said “the only ‘peoples’ that ‘thanked’ and ‘helped’ the invading Nazi scum were German settlers”.
Then explain this stupid:
“At a mass meeting in Prague, 200,000 Czechs pledge loyalty to their homeland and to the German Reich.
Czech Minister Emanuel Moravec addresses the large rally on July 3, 1942, on Wenceslas Square, near the historic statute of St. Wenceslas. He concludes with an expression of confidence in a better future for the Czech people, and of support for the “new Europe,” the “National Socialist revolution,” “our leader, Adolf Hitler,” and “our state president, Dr. Hacha.”
Emil Hacha, head of the Protectorate of Bohemia-Moravia government is present, along with many other officials. The meeting concludes with the crowd singing the Czech national hymn. Three minute newsreel clip, with Czech narration.”
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1063392317178734
Are you certain that you don’t have Serbian ancestry? Your hatred and mythomania are traits that are very common among Serbian apostates who present themselves as Bosniaks or Croats.
These Serbian fags seem to be obsessed with me. Sorry guys, I’m not into guy-guy stuff ….
Are you saying the Ustashe were a CIA gayop just like ISIS in an attempt to drag the US into a war in the region?
All this pearl clutching from Serbs is pitiful.
Lying?? Just like you Colin. Just like you
When I see something as illogical as what you’ve wrote, the only possible answer is ‘moron’. However, congratulations, you just convinced me to renew my ‘ignore’ list.
Western allies gave sanctuary to many of these criminals who later descended on Yugoslavia in the 90s to continue where they stopped in 1945. Like the Ukranian emigres now bringing their Russophobia back to the old country.
The most famous freedom fighter was Stjepan Filipovic, a Croat who led a Serbian partisan unit and died defiant at the gallows shouting “Death to fascism, freedom to the people”. This image became a symbol and an inspiration to freedom loving people throughout the world:
Serbs had nothing to do with the Istrian Italian exodus. The territory of Istria is in CROATIA, and partly Slovenia, as well as Italy. Serbia is hundreds of kilometers away and there were never any Serbs there. Try looking at a map, you illiterate Nazi clown.
Besides that fact, there is also the timeline—pressure on Italians in Istria and Dalmatia started in the 19’th century:
—Die Protokolle des Österreichischen Ministerrates 1848/1867. V Abteilung: Die Ministerien Rainer und Mensdorff. VI Abteilung: Das Ministerium Belcredi, Wien, Österreichischer Bundesverlag für Unterricht, Wissenschaft und Kunst 1971
The Italians turned to the Serbs for help, in fact:
—Dizionario Enciclopedico Italiano (Vol. III, p. 730), Roma, Ed. Istituto dell’Enciclopedia Italiana, founded by Giovanni Treccani, 1970
Ask the Italians—they hate the Croats and like the Serbs.
As for the Danube Swabians—they got exactly what they deserved, same as all the other German settlers across Europe.
—War and Revolution in Yugoslavia, 1941-1945: Occupation and Collaboration; Stanford University Press
These Nazi scumbags signed up eagerly for the Schutzstaffel, the 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division ‘Prinz Eugen’, and committed widespread atrocities to the native people that had hosted them and shown them nothing but hospitality over the years.
—Nuremburg Trial Proceedings, Yale University
At the end of the war, the Yugoslav Partisans were able to get their hands on only 2,000 of these Swabian cockroaches, and they were swiftly dispatched.
I have a suggestion for you: why don’t you get on a plane to Belgrade and start making some toasts to Donau Swabians in a local cafe…see what happens…LOL.
Haha, you nazi memelian Strolch. How very true to note
which is a demonstration that these enthusiastic hoi polloi were in fact traitors (they were, apart from a few misfits predominatly Germans not Czechs) and it was therefore quite correct to kick most of them out in 1945, as they had all renounced Czechoslovak citizenship, and thus voluntarily transformed themselves into undesirable aliens. Churchill was all in favour of these measures, which is not surprising, as according to the British criminal code treason is not tolerated. Just read
https://lawi.org.uk/treason/
to educate your semiliterate mind.
The other joke is your claim that
When was that, I would love to know.
…
It’s increasingly clear that you’re the dishonest little worm (and cowardly piece of shit, of course) here.
And for the record, the movie Dara in Jasenovac is for the most part pretty good, but it has 2 factual problems. The Nazi Flag outside the Jasenovac Concentration Camp is factually wrong because it was the territory of the Independent State of Croatia (therefore in reality there would’ve been an Ustasha and NDH Croat flag) and the Croats who voluntarily opened the camp and slaughtered Serbs, and a few others in much lesser numbers, as they did (Nazi Germany only had a dipomatic consulate/representative building in Zagreb).
The 2nd factual problem is that the movie actually holds back from the full horror of how the Croats murdered Serbs there. For instance, the scene where the Croat camp official slaughters an adult Serb inmate with a Serb-cutter knife to entertain his Nazi German guests, in real life actually happened to a Serb child, but the makers of the film deliberately left it out because it simply would’ve been too much for an American audience to understand and process (same reason for the 1st factual falsehood/misleading portrayal, although the whole movie was made with Serbs in mind first, not Americans).
Where did I say that Serbs should go to war immediately?
That would obviously be reckless and foolish. The smart thing to do is simply to endure and wait until the inevitable withdrawal/absence of the US military or any of its presence from the Balkans (which it seems and increasingly looks inevitable to happen, whether one likes it or not).
The history of Serbs and the Balkan region anyway suggests that a war at some point in the future is simply inevitable (the “at least 1 war in ever 50 year time period” rule is a good one for the Balkans). Although perhaps maybe it’s too much to expect a retarded dishonest little worm-piece of shit like you to be expected to know and/or acknowledge that …
Please don’t tell me you mean shit like France and Germany “reconciling” over Alsace-Lorraine, by forming the European Community, Coal and Steel treaties etc. where both nations have become utterly castrated, lost any sense of tradition, pride, ethnicity, culture, etc. and are destined to continually be replaced out of existence by millions of Muslim and African migrants bar some radical changes …
If you mean Yugoslavia, don’t even mention it.
What bullshit.
Half of present-day Germany was Slavic in the Middle Ages.
Equestrian Statue of the Slavic [Obotrite] prince Niklot at the Schwerin Castle. [sculptor, Christian Genschow]
Niklot’s son Pribislav founded the House of Mecklenburg Dynasty.
Pomerania, later claimed by Germans, was also founded by Slavs. [The word pomer itself being Slavic, meaning by the sea ‘po mer’]
Look up the city of Rostock
The city of Lübeck:
Look up Berlin:
So much for German claims to Polish and Czech lands—considering half of Germany rightfully belongs to Czechia and Poland.
As I mentioned elsewhere, the Germans can thank Stalin for even having a country. The US Morgenthau postwar plan envisaged chopping it up into pieces, making a big part an ‘internationally-administered’ zone—basically a modern-day version of the partition of Poland. It was only Stalin’s opposition that prevented it.
This is what you get for starting aggression against people who are stronger than you. Later when you get beat up you cry, as you are doing here.
In any case, this lesson in historical facts should clear up a lot of confusion for you.
Your post is mostly factually correct (it’s nice to read about some interesting bits and pieces about Italians and Serbs before 1945 in Adriatic coastal regions) and although your support of Yugoslav/Yugoslavia ideology is retarded, it’s still good to see someone that’s at least read from several historical sources objective facts and is debunking the most retarded anti-Serb bullshit possibly imaginable.
Just a few corrections/additions though.
There actually was (and i still think is) a noteworthy diaspora of Serbs in Trieste during the times of the Habsburg Empire (way before the 20th century) and the local Serb community was well known for its intellectuals and merchants (I know Wikipedia isn’t the most reliable source, but it’s the easiest one I could quickly access to cite about the lengthy history of Serbs in Trieste).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs_in_Italy#Triestine_Serbs
Although, of course, you are factually correct. The notion that Serbs were the ones who ordered and executed the ethnic cleansing and mass murder of Italians from the Adriatic coast is pure nonsense, when the obvious perpetrators were Croats and Slovenes.
The trend of the future is already looking good so far.
Czech President Milos Zeman’s apology to Serbia and the Serb nation for the NATO aggression of 1999 is just the first in a line of many yet to come 🙂
The speech was delivered in Czech, not German and that means it was delivered to a Czech crowd. I do not believe all Czechs were hostile to Germans, nor the other way around. At the end of the war those that were hostile were encouraged to act. Germans in Czechoslovakia in 1938 were no more traitorous than Czechs were in Austria in 1919.
It is a waste of time to even try reading most of Serbian & pro-Serbian comments. These people are delusional, while others are mostly uninformed.
Simply:
1. There are only a few books in English about these peoples & their identities. Most Americans, even those with normal IQ & with no issues with anyone, are clueless re most of these controversies.
2. As far as Serbs go, there is no one among them who could be called a rational & balanced interlocutor (I am not talking about these pathetic types infesting unz.com, but about their so-called elite intellectuals. As far as history, culture & identity go- virtually all of them are possessed by cognitive dissonance, similar to Muslims re Western culture). It may sound biased- but it is true. I would like to spar with some Serbian nationally oriented academician, professor,… re history, culture etc.- but there is no one.
On a higher, more scientific level, they did not produce anything about those supposedly controversial issues that could withstand a serious critique. This is simply some kind of national derangement.
As far as Croats go, there is, rationally & scientifically, a much better situation. There are works in Croatian & some world languages which are mostly correct, nuanced & encyclopedic. But here, it is all too evident how Yugoslavia has been a straitjacket for Croats: regarding general & particular works on Croatian history worth discussing, there are only 2-4 books in English. At the same time, Hungarian historiographers have produced ca. 400- 600 serious English-language history books (virtually all books are authored by Hungarians).
On the other hand, Croatian historians have authored 4-8 scientific- as far as history is a science- works (archives, analyses, footnotes, facsimiles, …) on the 90s wars in Croatia & Bosnia and Herzegovina, while Serbian & Bosnian Muslim side- nothing, not a single history work worth mentioning. Only propaganda, memoirs & journalist stuff (which is good for Internet forums blather, but no mentally sane person would take such trash seriously.
3. so called “controversial points”, where Croats score immensely higher over Serbs & Muslims- but did not make their works available in world languages -are:
* ethnogenesis & question of national identity
* medieval history & culture
* language history, both linguistic & cultural
* “modern” history of past 400 years or so (Serbian historiography is better than Croatian with regard to the 19th C)
* diplomatic & legal history
* WW1 and WW2 (Serbian history of WW1 is much superior to Croatian, while WW2 is better covered by Croatian historians, Serbian & Muslim works being mostly a mythology)
* period of two Yugoslav states
* recent history of dissolution of Yugoslavia and the 90s wars
I’ll give just three examples:
a) there are 10 modern Croatian literature histories, while in Serbian there are only 2 works on Serbian literature
b) about recent history of the 90s wars, there are at least 8 encyclopedic historical works by Croats, and not a single one by Serbs or Muslims – only foaming at the mouth propaganda
c) as regards those wars, it is instructive for those who know Croatian/Serbian/Bosnian to go to YouTube and listen to various podcasts & interviews by senior Serbian and Croatian officers- about 5-8 from each side. While the best Croatian officers (rank of colonel to general/admiral) are articulate, rational & analytical (with one exception, admirable admiral Domazet Lošo, who is great when discussing strategy & geopolitics, but frequently lapses into idiocy of Masonic lodges or some cosmic battles of angels & archangels, which is his personal quirk) – all Serbian generals sound like idiots. They are mental midgets; they cannot speak properly (grammar, vocabulary); they are just freely associating, without any empirical evidence; their mental world is that of conspiracy (Vatican, Masons, Western conspiracy against Eastern Orthodoxy, some imaginary global importance of Serbs as a people; …)
To sum it: I’ve long since come to the conclusion that Serbs- and Bosnian Muslims even more- are irrational, “eastern” people prone to oscillations between self-abasement & self-aggrandizement, very susceptible to manipulation & almost incapable of critical thinking. They think, even the most cultured & advanced among them, that propaganda & movies are reliable as history & politics- as they see them. They can’t comprehend the weight of empirical evidence & argument. It is absolutely useless to argue with them.
Of course, this applies to Croatian megalomaniacs, but they are a lunatic fringe. Among Serbs & Muslims- lunatics are mainstream.
agree- most Americans are clueless and too lazy and maybe too dull to look for the truth
And you sound like a ridiculous Serb Chetnik Extremist, not much different from the Nazi clowns here—no wonder your people have been so easy to smear with all kinds of ugly accusations.
Many in Balkans Still See More Harm From Yugoslavia Breakup
Even in well-off Slovenia, more people say Yugoslavia was better. In Croatia too, we see a solid minority.
Yugoslavia was a wonderful country that I visited on numerous memorable occasions. Today, your little Balkan Bantustans are servants of servants—Balkans >> EU >> US Ponzi Empire.
Polls all across Eastern Europe show the same thing:
Majority of Eastern Germans Feel Life Better under Communism
SPECIAL REPORT: In eastern Europe, people pine for socialism, Reuters
Polls show: Eastern Europeans miss Communism.
That’s the REAL world—the people of Eastern Europe are no longer fooled by the ‘democracy’ song and dance…never mind the fantastical Nazi-Chetnik clown bullshit that we see on this discussion.
Well it didn’t seem retarded to all those Yugoslavs at the time. Did you ever watch Tito’s funeral in Belgrade and the reaction of all those people there, mostly Serbs? I bet if you had gone there and shouted some anti Tito or anti Communist Party slogans there you wouldn’t have had to fear any secret policemen in the crowd; the masses of people would have showed you what they think. I don’t know if ideas or people are more retarded. These are the same people as those before, but now they have found other ideas to follow just as ardently, and only time will tell where this will lead them and if anywhere better. Sure they were exposed to propaganda then, now they’re exposed to other propaganda. Who is to say they are any smarter now believing in this new propaganda than they were then believing in that old one? Really it’s quite funny watching people turn coat so quickly and start parroting something else just as passionately as they parroted that other stuff before. And go on the streets now and shout in front of crowds the common slogans of those days and they’ll say you’re crazy. Well sorry but I can’t take people seriously.
In the first 20 days,the Independent State of Croatia was demolished the synagogue, a concentration camp was opened and Stepinac blessed Pavelić
Exactly 80 years ago, the Quisling Independent State of Croatia (NDH) was proclaimed in Zagreb, to the joy of the few fascists and the permanent shame of the rest of the Croatian people.
Racial laws and concentration camps, genocides and ethnic cleansing of other peoples (Serbs, Jews, Roma), with mass crimes against their own people – Croatian communists, left HSS members and other anti-fascist patriots who, saving Croatian honor, rose up against this fascist formation – these were the main elements of this anti-national and anti-god state, proclaimed on April 10, 1941 in Zagreb.NDH is a completely random state. It would not have happened if the citizens of Belgrade had not taken to the streets in large numbers on March 27, 1941, against the entry of the then Kingdom of Yugoslavia into the Nazi-Triple Pact (Germany, Italy, Japan), signed by Prince Pavle two days earlier, on March 25. Karadjordjevic.
Having received assurances from Hitler that by joining the pact Yugoslavia would maintain its neutral status in World War II (it was important for Hitler to secure the south flank before the attack on the USSR, so he was willing to give Yugoslavia that concession, at least on paper), Pavle calculated that the team by a collaborationist agreement to spare the country from war.
However, his account was ruined by the citizens of Belgrade, who – shouting the slogans “Better war than pact” and “Better grave than slave” – by taking to the streets en masse enabled a coup d’etat by a group of pro-British royal officers, which overthrew Prince Pavle and the Cvetkovic-Macek government. , and the shameful entry of Yugoslavia into the Triple Alliance was annulled.
Well, Franco-German rivalry came down to a lot more than Alsace-Lorraine, but beyond that you can essentially pick any two countries/ethnicities in Europe that ever had wars and long running tensions and find that today they’re reconciled. (The number is even greater if you back before modern nation-states.) It’s basically the norm in human affairs, and the prospects for it today are even brighter than in the past, since a greater value is placed on friendly (or at least peaceful) relations. This allows countries to focus attention on more important things than cockamamie notions of ‘national glory.’
Isn’t it clear to you that the overwhelming majority of reactions to whether Yugoslavia’s breakup (and those wars) was “More Harmful than Good?” mostly come from how the members of those majority nations perceive its impact upon their national wellbeing?
That’s why even though Slovenes were the biggest winners of the wars of Yugoslavia’s breakup, Croats and Kosovo Albanians were the next biggest winners, hence why these three “nations” have the greatest collective enthusiasm about Yugoslavia’s breakup. It’s clear with hindsight that Serbs and Bosniaks/Bosnian Muslims were/still are the biggest losers of Yugoslavia’s breakup and those wars. Who ends up being an even greater loser out of Serbs vs Bosniaks from Yugoslavia’s breakup and those wars still remains to be seen, but so far Bosniaks have gained less and lost more than Serbs have since 1991.
Mostly true, although the geopolitical dynamics of the Balkans are at least a bit more complex than that.
For instance, Serbia is currently a militarily neutral nation that is successfully resisting NATO annexation and performs military exercises with Russia – exercising its military neutrality in a nationally sovereign manner – despite being encircled by NATO. It’s also the most sovereign nation in that broader regional area aside from Hungary and Turkey (Slovenia under Janez Jansa also seems to be making interesting steps in that direction as well).
You are leaving out important details.
Filipovic was a leader of a partisan unit, yes, but not of Serbs. He was captured by Serbian Chetniks and hung by the Serbian State Guard. German collaborators.
He led the Kolubara Company of the Valjevo Partisan Detachment. Valjevo is in the heart of Serbia so I presume most members would have been Serbians from that region. Although Croatian he lived in Serbia. Yes he was captured by Serbian collaborators. Partisans and Chetniks were killing each other all over the place. (I went by the wikipedia article: if you know better thanks for the input).
Before Germany was broken up in 1919 and had areas taken from it, Germany extended from present day Lithuania, including the port city of Klaipeda to Alsace-Lorraine in present day France. Germany had one language, German (many dialects) and few minorities. Like every European country at border areas there might be some minorities, but even there, there were very few minorities. This is one reason why there were never any minorities in Germany seeking an independent state or saying they were not German. There were none. Every German citizen referred to themselves as German and spoke German. There was nobody in Mecklenburg seeking independence either. Is there Slavic blood there from 1,000 years ago or so? Entirely possible. I think I have some too.
The German Expellees: Victims in War and Peace, by Alfred-Maurice de Zayas. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1993.
“These are a few of the 14-15 million Germans who fled or were expelled from their homelands, 1945-1948, in this century’s greatest act of “ethnic cleansing.” My comment: Post-War Germany’s first chancellor Konrad Adenauer said 20 million Germans fled or were expelled.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n2p39_clive.html
Yes, so what? The principal speakers were the Minister of education Emanuel Moravec and the Primeminster Jaroslav Krejčí. What the composition of the crowd was is now difficult to determine. The manifestation was shortly after the assassination of Reinhard Heidrich and it was inopportune not to attend as any sign of resistance could be interpreted as consent to the assassination that could end one on the gallows. Just by chance, today is the anniversary of the assassination of Heidrich and there was a reenactment of the event in the Prague theatre ”Pod Palmovkou”. Quite a joyful event, I must say. Next year it could be even better as it will be a 20 yr. anniversary of the event.
By the way, Moravec was a double traitor. First, he deserted from the KundK army to the Serbes where he spent several years fighting the Austrians before moving to Russia in 1917 to join the Czechoslovak legion to do the same. As a professional soldier (colonel) he was very much in favour of fighting nazi Germany before the Munich treaty, but after the treachery of the French and British, Moravec switched sides as he was apparently convinced that Germany was the dominant force that will win the war. As an ambitious bastard, he even aspired to become a president. His end was not glorious as he shot himself on the first day of the Prague uprising on the 5th May 1945, when his car run out of petrol.
Look, nobody is interested in your crocodile tears about Nazi delusions of grandeur.
Germany got hammered into dust by the Russians only because Hitler attacked and committed massive crimes against ordinary people—he was willing to kill millions to take their land.
All of those Germans who came in as immigrants but refused to assimilate or even learn the language were naturally expelled. They were a minority in another country and took the side of the enemy, like Karel said. They got what they had coming to them.
Anyway, this thread has nothing to do with Germans or even about Nazis. It is about a Serbian film about CROATIAN wartime atrocities, and the dishonest, Jewish-run American media that tries to turn history on its head.
And don’t bother linking to some neo-Nazi website. I’m not interested.
“All of those Germans who came in as immigrants but refused to assimilate or even learn the language were naturally expelled. They were a minority in another country and took the side of the enemy, like Karel said. They got what they had coming to them.” You are showing your ignorance again. They were expelled from their own country, from land taken from Germany or Austria in 1919 (and taken back by Germany) or additional land that was taken in 1945. There was no German “immigration” to their own lands. They had lived there for many centuries and built their cities. They lived in one of two empires, Austria (later called Austro-Hungary) or Germany.
The greatest obstacle to spreading the truth about Jasenovac and any other atrocities against Slavs/Orthodox peoples/nations lies with the Vatican. The same is true with contemporary events in Ukraine. Expose and prevent their (Vatican’s) hidden, criminal/slanderous hand upon those issues and they (the issues) will disappear of their own accord. The genocide against the Serbs/Orthodox in WWII was inspired and abetted by the black hand of religious Rome in Croacia, Stepinac. A very old and frightening Serb documentary on Jasenovac, still found online, describes events there that even the German nazis in the area at the time considered “excessive”. The Biblical description of the Vatican explains it all: “…THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH”, found in Revelation 17.5
Look, find the religion of those directing most of the Media/Entertainment in the West. You’ll surely find the hand of religious Rome propping up their religious fervour towards the most convenient outcomes… for their religious MOTHER! Even the US Supreme Court has become a bastion of Rome, with most of the justices being members of the Roman religion.
Blessed are those that follow the injunction: “…Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues…”
…read the book by Doctor Philip Cohen, ” Serbia’s Secret War”. (1995)
..this describes how the Serbian Chetniks (General Milan Nedic) totally made Belgrade, “Juden Frei”!
It was the very first city in the world (in all of history!) to exterminate the hapless Jewish population of Belgrade and other cities of Serbia! I met the good doctor, and he mentioned that the Serbians were using the goodness of our Jews to further their scheme of a ” Greater Serbia’!
FB is a hyper-partisan bigmouth, and I pay no attention to his blatherings. If his own people had been subjected to the same thing, he’d be screaming bloody murder, you can be certain.
Now, while those postwar expulsions were gruesome and quite impossible to square with liberal notions of justice, putting yourself in the position of the people who carried them out, who had just waged a literal life-and-death struggle, who despite being victorious had seen their countries ravaged and livelihoods destroyed, it’s not that hard to understand their motives, those being essentially: you wanted to wipe me from the earth? Well fuck you, I’m going to wipe you from the earth. In such heated circumstances, it was most unlikely that anybody was going to pay attention to questions of individual innocence.
(Note: I take the same attitude to Croats’ “muh Bleiburg” whining.)
The Vatican’s Holocaust
by Avro Manhattan
Serbia was under German occupation during WWII and the Jew extermination programme was ran by the Gestapo and the Germans. Read the book by the daughter of the head of the Gestapo office in Belgrade who ran the programme.
Mein guter Vater
by Beate Niemann
So what?
The whole country was a fucking joke literally primed by Tito to implode, definitively and irreversibly with the 1974 constitution. Literally every single Socialist Republic had its own territorial defense (an army with heavy weapons lol) and SR Serbia was crippled with autonomous provinces of Kosovo and Vojvodina that had veto power over Belgrade not only in the affairs of AP Kosovo and Vojvodina, but literally everything else in the affairs of SR Serbia.
To comprehend just how ridiculous and pathetic this whole arrangement was, imagine us imitating this with the USA.
Califronia and Hawaii have veto power over Washington not only in all affairs concerning those Federal States, but also everything to do with Washington and the rest of the USA. Also every single Federal state of the USA has its own army, not just a national guard with heavy weaponry.
Imagine similar arrangements for Russia or China, and you’ll understand how much of a pathetic, fake, joke non-country SFR Yugoslavia was.
Well there’s a dilemma, to what extent were those people really even “Serbs”? What the hell does “Serb” actually even mean?
Anyway, that generation showed how committed it was to Yugoslavia, let alone any sort of “Serb ideals” by deserting from the JNA like the cowards and hedonistic degenerates that they were (most infamously so during the Battle of Vukovar) during 1991-1992 when confronted with armed and violent separatism against SFR Yugoslavia …
Doesn’t change the point that even though French and Germans definitely won’t go to war over Alsace-Lorraine any time soon (if ever again), that for the sake of mutual peace they have sacrificed much ethno-national vitality and perhaps even racial strength and energy. Being a participant and survivor of a long running ethno-national/religious/racial conflict can actually be interpreted as a sign of strength, not weakness (although there are trade offs obviously). At any rate, for what it’s worth, from what i’ve seen, many French still hate and frequently shit on Germans (not just about WW2), it’s possibly vice versa (probably fringe German neo-Nazis may still genuinely hate the French), meaning their reconciliation is quite insincere anyway and forced upon them by the US military towards the end of and after WW2. It’s extremely unlikely, but theoretically possible to imagine French and Germans going to war over Alsace-Lorraine once the US military inevitably leaves Europe at some point in the future lol.
I think it truly does seem you are dumb and naive.
Even if we only stick to the post-WW2 time period and exclude the Balkans, it’s clear there are still a whole bunch of unresolved conflicts and national animosities still alive and well in Europe. If you haven’t noticed, war is running in East Ukraine/Donbass/LDNR since 2014 and that was simmering for a long time (although admittedly incited by the USA). Excluding wars, ethnic clashes in North Ireland are still commonplace, Spain has latent issues with Basque (violent ETA terrorism, anyone remember?) and Catalan nationalism, Hungarians are still bitter about Trianon and ethnic clashes between Magyars and Romanians in Transylvannia are also more commonplace than anyone cares to notice, Cyprus is still divided, Ukrainian Carpathia is full of nationalist minorities of Rusyns, Magyars and other who are actively being repressed and discriminated against by the Ukranian state, and so on. The point is that the moment the US military leaves Europe it’s easy to see the possibility for any of these conflicts to erupt violently again (at least theoretically).
Your naive vision of pan-European/pan-White or whatever reconciliation doesn’t really exist in reality. This isn’t to say that this wouldn’t be situationally very desirable in cases where Middle-East and African mass immigration is truly in full effect, since obviously, that is a more urgent and existential threat than any “parochial” or “petty” conflicts as listed above. Although true nationalists from the above groups would ideally do their best to prevent such a scenario from occurring in the first place to begin with (e.g. Viktor Orban’s Hungary and the V4 group are clearly trying their best in this regard).
The now former Yugoslavia was always the main reason the region called Balkan Powder Keg.
The various nations/ ethnic/ religious groups are obsessed to have conflict, kill each other, have genocides and turmoils in Yugoslavia.
Mainly were true in WW2, and the 90`s.
The ones who responsible for the even greater escalation:
The antant which created that artificial country after ww1.
The same as the antant responsible for what happened in Czechoslovakia after ww1, what happened in “Greater” Poland after ww1 till ww2 (and nowdays happens because the tensions in Poland vs. Russia originated from that time mainly), what happened with Hungary since ww1.
There were already a bad situation in East Europe and Balkan before ww1.
Only limited because large empires was capable to suppress tensions under a level.
Antant made it a far greater fucked up nonsense with tenfold more seeds of war and conflict.
Hindsight is 20/20 vision, or can be. Yugoslavia existed even before the communists, and even that monarchic one is now being criticised. It’s much easier to spot past mistakes now but new mistakes are being made as we write. Sure much of what you write could be true but I don’t know if this new situation will lead to anywhere better.
I’m sure a lot of people in JNA didn’t know what they were fighting for as the country was falling apart. But even now with all these new countries I’m not sure they’ve all solved their identity crises or who they really are.
There’s definitely truth in that, and it’s only a minority that is capable of noticing that at the time, until its way too late …
and yet we know that the Soviets murdered 20,000 of Poland’s officer corps at Katyn and blamed it on Germany
Haha,
We do not know much. Perhaps you do, if you helped to dig up all the corpses and inflating the number from 10000 (as provided by Goebbels but probably much fewer as only about 4000 were discovered) to 20000 in the process. Your problem is the gullibility of believing Goebbels to this day. I wonder that such people are still alive. Perhaps this article may illuminate your backward mind and help to damp your fanatical belief of lies spread by Goebbels.
https://thesanghakommune.org/2020/10/29/how-goebbels-massacred-truth-at-katyn-1941/
More articles on this topic appeared recently but my guess is that you prefer to believe Goebbels. e.g.
https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1125&context=jil
The anecdotal discovery of the graves was described by Ahrens. Apparently, Colonel Ahrens later recalled that during the winter of 1943, in January or February, he tracked a wolf through the woods, discovered scratchings on the mound with the wooden cross, directed investigations as to the kind of bones contained in the mound, and was informed by doctors that they were human. cited in NUREMBURG TRIAL PROCEEDINGS, supra note 19, at 282
There you have it. Polish colonels can keep up running effortlessly with wolves. These superhuman abilities could have perhaps helped Ahrens to run away from the advancing Wehrmacht in 1939.
Correction, Ahrens was called Friedrich and thus a superhuman German, not a subhuman Pole. Hence, my apology to all the Polish colonels of WW II.
I appreciate your post. Some of my own family were victims of those Serbs. Poor farmers, who worked like Oxen were honest and never hurt anyone. Thanks again for speaking up about the fate of so many ethnic Germans in the former Yugoslavia. The stories that encompass the fate of so many innocent people during WW2, people of all kinds and nationalities, has never really been covered in one volume, for it would be a tome easily numbering tens of thousands of pages.
Of course I believe you and apologize. I guess I needed to simply get it out once again, since the lying is now so utterly blatant and open, that any one who supports the DNC and continues to act as if Donald Trump is the king of liars is outright demented, including the media that covers for those demented democrats.
i dont need to believe Goebbels – wikipedia says 22,000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
perhaps you think wikipedia is run by nazis these days?
maybe you would be better off by making a few less assumptions and insults towards random anons whom you know nothing about
My experience with Serbs is that they are decent folks for the most part, with a strong sense of right and wrong. But if you get on their bad side they can be very explosive.
Germans in Serbia were not bothered by anybody until Hitler invaded. They were left to themselves and that worked out fine. Once the Wehrmacht and SS rolled in, thousands of these ‘quiet’ German settler took up arms and put on NAZI uniforms.
Unfortunatley for them, they lost he war. And they got simple payback. Thant’s the way it works in life, If you start a fight and get your clock cleaned, do you expect anybody to feel sorry for you?
Hungarians are still a large minority in Serbia’s Vojvodina region. Nobody kicked them out because they didn’t do anything bad. Colonel Zoltan Dani, a Serbian national hero of Hungarian extraction humiliated the US ‘stealth’ aircraft by shooting down two of them—bursting a giant US soap buble.
The US offered Colonel Dani 10 million dollars, which he refused.
In your mind, Serbs did something wrong by kicking out German settlers. But did you ever consider that they deserved?
Why should I think that Wikipedia is being run by nazis? From my experience, any texts concerning history or politics are perpetually rewritten there to bring up the latest lie of the week. Whether these scribblers who inflated Goebbels’s count that was originally intended for propaganda purposes to cheer up the home crowd after the Stalingrad debacle are nazis or not, I have no idea. If I were you, I would believe Goebells rather than Wikipedia. By the way, are you a nazi Strolch who occasionally tracks Russian wolves in the deep snow? Perhaps you may find one day the missing 12000 corpses.
I wouldn’t go that far.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novi_Sad_raid
But OK, I don’t know to what extent local Hungarians participated in these crimes by the Hungarian occupation army.
I do agree that many Serbs are decent folks. So were those poor German farmers. When the Nazi’s came rolling in, they did not give those poor farmers much of a choice on putting or not putting on uniforms. The payback often came against the women and children, the men having died in war or sent to perish in Siberia. The thing that was really unfortunate for these Germans, living in lands that formerly belonged to the Hapsburg territories, is that with the collapse of Austro-Hungary, they no longer had a citizenship. They now were people without a country. Also, those farmers did not “start a war”, many of them barely knowing who Adolph Hitler was! When the former Yugoslavia broke up with the death of Tito, the Serbs and Croats,etc. reverted back to their usual barbarism. Many of those ethnic Germans, watched and did not feel the slightest bit of sorrow for the folks that they knew “robbed them of their farms and houses” now that they were suffering.
The Serbs were also betrayed by the U.S. when they bombed the capitol city of Belgrade, ending the “special relationship” they imagined they had with the U.S. Maybe they deserved this?
Ramsey Clark’s ideas were disastrous.
Those Serbian territories were never legitimately Austrian. They were annexed by Austria who was taking advantage of the struggle against the Ottoman Turks that the Serbs and other Balkan peoples were engaged in. Austria annexed Bosnia only a few years before WW1, which the Austrians started.
They also lost, and their large multi-ethnic empire disappeared, as it was bound to.
Also your accusations of Serbs killing German children and women sounds like bullshit. I have never in any of my many readings of WW2 history come across this. Maybe in some of the bullshit websites and pseudo-histories that you UNZ critters like to point to?
The Nazis, including the Volkdeutche within their ranks committed bestial crimes—including killing children.
It took a couple of major wars in the last century, but German expansionism has been crushed well and truly under the boot of the Red Army. Austria is now within its borders and so is Germany, the latter consisting actually of Slavic lands [and people] in its eastern half that became part of ‘Germany’ over centuries.
Just looked that up.
I certainly don’t think we can lump the Hungarians in with the Naizs in any way. That entire episode resulted in 3,000 deaths—not negligible to be sure, but Nazis would accomplish that in a single day of burning villages and shooting boys and girls.
Seriously, wtf do you want?
The murders and expulsions of ethnic Germans from East Europe were literally dictated by the 3 Allied powers at Potsdam (if i recall correctly) – so Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt all agreed upon it. Even if there was any considerable political will to stop it in Yugoslavia, expulsions of Germans at the end of WW2 and post-1945 were dictated by the most powerful forces in the world at that time meaning it would’ve been impossible to do so.
Honestly, considering everything Germany’s done in the Balkans ever since 1991, starting with its aggressive and pathologically anti-Serb policies by illegally arming Croatia to commit armed and violent separatism against Yugoslavia, inciting war by recognizing Slovenia and Croatia, and then pressuring everyone else in Europe to do so, ethnic Germans really don’t deserve any sort of right to return whatsoever to Vojvodina/Banat.
Maybe Germans deserve mass immigration from the Middle East and Africa so you can enjoy Muslims and Africans getting their hands on your women, taking over your neighborhoods, and etc?
It’s true that Hungarians literally threw Serbs under the ice and shot Serbs in their homes.
Honestly, I don’t understand why everyone is blaming Serbs for the actions the Yugoslav Communist Partisans who were although majority Serb, a multiethnic movement especially towards the wars end (as many Croats defected from the Ustashe and Croatian Domobrans, especially politically infiltrated the leadership ranks) in 1944/1945, also did mass killings of many Serbs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_purges_in_Serbia_in_1944%E2%80%9345#Ethnic_composition_of_victims
This Wikipedia link (an imperfect but the simplest resource) basically explains what each ethnic group and community of Serbs, Germans, Hungarians and even Rusyns suffered at the hands of the Yugoslav Communist Partisans.
Even though Serbs were the majority of the rank and file of the Yugoslav Partisan movement, they had very little real say over the leadership decisions of the movement beyond immediate and desperate resistance against Croats, Muslims, Albanians and other Axis collaborators/powers present in the region, especially considering how much it screwed Serbs over themselves post-WW2. Blaming Serbs for the actions of Communists is beyond ingenious and anyone who unironically does so is not worth taking seriously.
As far as Vojvodina goes I should think it’s fairly well established that the Serbian population there largely originated from refugees and immigrants escaping Ottoman rule further south who enjoyed the hospitality of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. And also many Serbians who settled there from other republics after WWII.
Serbs have existed in Vojvodina since the 5th century AD, at the earliest before there was a single Austrian/German or Hungarian there. The trace of Serb heritage and identity far predates that of any other ethnic group there. Same applies for Dalmatia and Krajina-Slavonia. Late migrations, exiles, exoduses and expulsions/ethnic cleansings doesn’t change this at all.
It’s amazing just how much Croat and anti-Serb bullshit about anything to do with Serbs dominates in the English language realm.
Well if you go that far back, before the Huns even arrived, maybe, I don’t know. Like FB says large parts of Germany belonged to Slavs, and in fact to Serbs/Sorbs according to this map:
If 750,000 innocent Serbs died in Jasenovac, one must explain why the Serbs were the only nation in the former Yugoslavia more numerous in the first post-war census than in the last pre-war census, while for the Croats population losses amount to several hundred thousand. Do Serbs reproduce faster than rabbits? No, but they are a people of pathological liars, a trait they have acquired for survival during four centuries of enslavement under the yoke of the Turks.
“your accusations of Serbs killing German children and women sounds like bullshit. I have never in any of my many readings of WW2 history come across this”: You have to choose your readings better, no one can do it for you. The ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of German speakers in the former Yugoslavia is well documented. And the census figures from before and after the war are available to show the annihilation of an entire ethnic group. For those who were not lucky enough to escape, survival in the Serbian camps did not exceed a few months.
Yes, the plight of the Sorbs is tragic and doesn’t receive enough attention.
http://rastko.rs/rastko-lu/istorija/historie.htm
Sorbs are Serbs. The question is who came from where or if they were always where they are, and in between. No doubt people also moved due to various pressures but it is hard to prove what really went on when going too far back in time. FB showed some DNA data on some old thread that the Slavs originated from Serbia, contrary to what most historiographers claim.
The Communists were pro Serb and pro Russian and defeated the fascists in Yugoslavia. That’s all that matters to the people who live in Yugoslavia, and their friends.
LOL. Die, commie faggot. His spirit will live on in the freedom fighters starting fires in rubbish bins in Portland.
PS fake photo. Don’t they bind the hands when they hang people?