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The culture of the Jewish people following the death of Christ has puzzled Christians for centuries. How could the people of the Old Testament, who followed God (albeit imperfectly), persist in rejection of Christ and exist in what appeared to be such a uniquely amoral state? Jews in the Middle Ages were notorious for cruelty and greed, and there is even evidence that they would occasionally sacrifice Christian children.
Some believe that the Ashkenazi Jews of today are not the Jews of the Bible, but are descended from medieval Turkish converts, in what is known as the Khazar theory. However, genetic testing contradicts this, and Sephardic Jews don’t seem to have had a significantly better reputation. In a more theologically plausible theory, Medieval Christians believed that the Jews were cursed due to their murder of Christ, with St. Thomas Aquinas and Pope Gregory IX saying they were sentenced to perpetual servitude due to their rejection of Christ.[1]https://thomistica.net/letter-to-margaret-of-flander...well). While that could certainly explain their loss of nationhood and the destruction of the Second Temple, it’s also clear that much of this corruption predated Christ, or they never would have had Him crucified in the first place.
A different theory, put forward by Ron Unz in the article Prof. John Beaty and the True Origin of the Jews, may provide additional context as to why they rejected Christ, why they have continued to be so obstinate in their rejection, and why they seem to have such a unique streak of cultural immorality. The theory states that the bulk of modern Jews descend from Carthaginian/Phoenician converts, who began to convert to Judaism following the Roman destruction of Carthage in 146 BC. If this is true, the implications of it extend beyond genealogy.
A Brief Summary of the Carthaginian Theory
For those who have not read the article, the Carthaginian theory perfectly solves a strange puzzle with regard to modern Jewish origins. Unz summarizes the puzzle as follows:
“Most mainstream experts seemed to quietly concede that Sand was correct in arguing that by the time of the Roman Empire the overwhelming majority of the Jews living along the shores of the Mediterranean were probably of convert stock, having little ancestry from the Israelites of Palestine. Yet the genetic evidence painted a very different picture for the major subsequent Jewish populations.
As mentioned, the Ashkenazi Jews seem to derive from Middle Eastern males who took European wives in the centuries after the Fall of Rome. Meanwhile, the Sephardic Jews of Muslim Spain are also of Middle Eastern ancestry, and they were the wealthiest and most numerous component of Jewry throughout much of the Middle Ages prior to their 1492 expulsion by Ferdinand and Isabella. So, if only a small fraction of Jews had roots in Palestine, it appears quite odd that these would have become the progenitors of both the Sephardic and male Ashkenazi lines. Genetic evidence seems to conflict with strong literary and historical evidence.”
These seemingly contradictory bodies of evidence are brought together by the Carthaginian hypothesis. The Carthaginians/Phoenicians were a Canaanite people, closely related to the Judeans, and so the difference between the two would not be picked up by our insufficiently precise genetic testing. Carthage also had a massive empire of roughly four million people, and so it would’ve provided an ample source of converts around the Mediterranean. After the destruction of Carthage by Rome, the defeated and stateless Carthaginians would’ve found the religion of their devout cousins very attractive, given that it prophesized a messiah that would save their people. The Carthaginians were also known for being excellent merchants and urban-dwellers, similar to modern day Jews, but quite different from the peasants of Judea. As we will examine below, this theory would also connect modern Jews with the Canaanite ancestors of the Carthaginians.
People of the Book?
“And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.”
-Genesis 9:25
The Bible uses the term “Canaanite” to refer to the indigenous pagan tribes in the land of Canaan (modern day Israel and Lebanon). The story of the Canaanites begins with their namesake, Canaan. The Bible describes how Canaan’s father, Ham, witnesses Noah naked and tells his brothers about it, rather than helping cover Noah up. As punishment, Noah curses Canaan in Genesis 9:25. Canaan’s descendants settle in the land of Canaan, and they are condemned for practicing incest, homosexuality, bestiality, and child sacrifice (Leviticus 18). God eventually commands the Israelites to remove them from the southern portion of the land (modern day Israel). While some are under the impression that the Canaanites were completely annihilated, the Bible states in Judges 3 1:4 that the Canaanites in the north (modern day Lebanon) were allowed to survive so as to test future Israelites in battle.
While the Bible describes the people of this land as Canaanites, the Greeks had a different name for them: Phoenicians. Carthage was founded by the Phoenicians as a colony in the 9th century BC,[2]https://www.worldhistory.org/Carthaginian_Religion/#...gnette roughly three centuries after modern scholars believe the Canaanite displacement at the hands of the Israelites occurred. However, there is little reason to think these Phoenicians/Carthaginians were anything other than the direct descendants of the Biblical Canaanites. Ephraim Stern, chairman of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem’s Institute of Archaeology, stated that the Phoenicians were the descendants of the Biblical-era Canaanites, some of whom were forced out of Palestine by the Israelites around 1200 BC.[3]https://library.biblicalarchaeology.org/article/phoe...srael/
Already, an incredible irony presents itself. Modern scholars subtly acknowledge that the vast majority of Roman Jews never left Palestine, meaning that modern Palestinians are the closest descendants of the ancient Israelites. Others have already pointed out how ironic it is that the entire Zionist project justifies itself off the claim that they are the descendants of the Israelites, but in reality, they are expelling the actual descendants of the Israelites from the holy land.
The Carthaginian theory further deepens this already remarkable irony. Zionist settlers are not just a foreign entity attacking the true Israelites, but are actually the descendants of the people that were cursed and explicitly ordered for removal from the land by God, according to scriptures that religious Zionists themselves believe in. They do have a connection to the holy land, it’s just not the one they want.
From a Christian perspective, the story of modern Zionism is the story of a bitter people attempting to reverse God’s judgment upon them without Christ, and who have been allowed to exist so as to test Israelites in combat. This ends up remaining true theologically, in the sense that Christians are the new Israelites and Christian societies have been seized by Jewish organizations, and it’s also become true again literally, in the sense that Israelite descendants are now physically in combat with Canaanite descendants in the holy land.
Defining Modern Judaism
It is commonly believed that modern day Jews are followers of the Old Testament, only differentiated from Christians by their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah. The Hebrew scriptures seem to clearly point to Jesus as the Messiah, leaving Christians frustrated for centuries over the Jewish refusal to accept this. However, the scholarship of Prof. Israel Shahak has shown that the modern Jewish religion includes a wide variety of strange, seemingly pagan practices. Many have accused them of general devil worship, but Canaanite origins could provide greater clarity as to the essence of their beliefs. As we covered earlier, the Canaanites in the Bible engaged in a host of disturbing pagan practices, including child sacrifice. One might be tempted to think that three thousand years is too long for any link to remain; perhaps the migration to Carthage resulted in significant change to the Canaanite culture, or perhaps the destruction of Carthage and mass conversion to Judaism resulted in an overhaul of their religious practices. However, the historical record shows that this is not the case. Despite the distance between Carthage and Phoenicia, the Phoenician Carthaginians retained an unsevered connection with their native religion, and this included the practice of child sacrifice. For many years it was doubted that the Carthaginians actually sacrificed children, but recent findings have provided overwhelming evidence that they did.[4]https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2014-01-23-ancient-carthag...ildren An article in Haaretz provides a useful summary:
“Though they dispersed throughout the western Mediterranean, the Phoenicians remained united by their religious practices. For centuries, Carthage sent a delegation to Tyre each year to sacrifice at the temple of the city-god Melqart. In Carthage itself, the chief deities were the divine couple Baal-Hammon, meaning “Lord of the Brazier,” and Tanit, identified with Astarte. The most notorious characteristic of Phoenician religion was the practice of child sacrifice. The area around the western Mediterranean (Carthage, Western Sicily, Southern Sardinia) is littered with burials of sacrificed children, but in truth, the practice was commonplace in the Phoenician cities all over the Levant. Diodorus Siculus reports that in 310 B.C.E., during an attack on the city, the Carthaginians sacrificed over 200 children of noble birth to appease Baal-Hammon.”[5]https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/2016-07-28/ty-ar...340000
The scholarship of Prof. Ariel Toaff shows that this practice also did not end with the destruction of Carthage, and that European Jews practiced child sacrifice well into the Middle Ages. The existence of Carthaginian child sacrifice strongly supports the accounts of Canaanite child sacrifice in the Bible, as well as Prof. Toaff’s research, and shows a significant link between Rabbinic Judaism and Canaanite paganism.
Another intriguing continuity is the role of Saturn in Jewish culture. The historian Eusebius records that the Phoenician supreme deity, El, was deified as the star Saturn. The Romans also linked Saturn with the Carthaginian supreme deity, Baal-Hammon, possibly reinforced by the fact that Saturn ate his children in Roman mythology.
Roman and Medieval Jewish sources attest that at least some form of Saturn/Baal-Hammon worship remained even after the Carthaginians mass converted to Judaism. Shlomo Sela, a professor in the Department of Jewish Thought at Bar Ilan University, analyzed the works of Abraham ibn Ezra, a prominent Medieval Jewish commentator, who wrote a lengthy work attempting to defend the link between the Jews and Saturn. Sela wrote that this link is “historically vouched for in almost all the sources which have been presented above to demonstrate the persistence of the Saturn-Jewish connection from antiquity till the Middle Ages. Thus, both Tacitus and St. Augustine asserted that the Jews made the Sabbath their rest day in order to honor or worship Saturn.”[6]https://www.academia.edu/38440339/Abraham_Ibn_Ezras_...Saturn pg. 40
Lest anyone think that this was just Roman or Christian propaganda, Sela also states: “That Jewish society of the Talmudic period recognized the same association is shown by the fact that the Babylonian Talmud (Shabbat 156a) refers to Saturn as Shabbetai, i.e., the star of Shabbat (Saturday).”[7]https://katz.sas.upenn.edu/resources/blog/saturn-and-jews Ibn Ezra himself did not deny that the Shabbat (Sabbath) was related to Saturn, but defended it by saying that Jews rested to protect themselves from Saturn’s malignant influence, which was supposedly strongest on that day. The Jewish newspaper, Forward, also admits the link, but claims that the Jews named Saturn after the Sabbath simply because the Romans believed the Jews were resting in honor of Saturn.[8]https://forward.com/news/9794/the-sabbath-planet/
Both of these explanations raise serious questions. The Old Testament clearly and repeatedly states that God blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy, and that it’s to be dedicated only to God (Exodus 20:8-11). If devout Jews rest for Saturn, even if we are to believe that it’s to protect themselves from Saturn, this would be religiously errant at the very least. Along with that, one would think that pious Jews would be deeply offended by the Roman accusation that they dedicated the Sabbath to a malicious pagan deity and would strenuously resist such a connection given the severe scriptural warnings against idol worship. Instead, they appear to have had no problem with naming Saturn “the Sabbath star”, casting doubt on the idea that the Romans were wrong about this.
Given that Jews have resisted conversion to Christianity for two-thousand years under enormous pressure, and that they even use a different mathematical plus sign because ours looks too much like a cross, a misnomer here would seem like quite the oversight.
Along with the historical evidence, Prof. Shahak also pointed out something interesting in his book Jewish History, Jewish-Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years:
“Perhaps the most sacred Jewish formula, ‘Hear 0 Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one’, recited several times each day by every pious Jew, can at the present time mean two contrary things. It can mean that the Lord is indeed ‘one’; but it can also mean that a certain stage in the union of the male and female deities has been reached or is being promoted by the proper recitation of this formula.”
After having read this initially, I was baffled, and wondered how such an odd belief could have ended up in modern Judaism. With the Carthaginian context though, it makes perfect sense, as the Carthaginians worshipped a divine couple, the male Baal-Hammon and the female Tanit, as mentioned above.
Assuming that the Carthaginian theory is true, the evidence suggests that the modern Jewish religion is a sort of hybrid between genuine Torah Judaism and Canaanite paganism. This should be unsurprising, as the Phoenicians were a proud people with an empire that had lasted a millennium, and they were probably reluctant to totally shirk their own religion in favor of one coming from their impoverished peasant cousins. This also foreshadowed their eventual refusal to accept the Christianity that the rest of the Roman Empire (even Judea) adopted, with the bitter memories of Roman conquest further entrenching their obstinance.
The Pharisees and the Star of Remphan
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.”
-Matthew 23:15
By the time of Christ’s conflict with the Pharisees almost two centuries after the destruction of Carthage, the bulk of the Carthaginian conversions had likely already happened. The impact of this on Jerusalem was probably substantial, especially given the influence that modern Jewish populations tend to exert over urban areas. The Encyclopedia Britannica states that converts became “increasingly numerous in Palestine” during this period, and there were many who “observed one or more Jewish practices without being fully converted.”[9]https://www.britannica.com/topic/Judaism/Hellenistic...ury-ce
The prominence of the Pharisees may itself have been an example of this impact, as they were defined in large part by their rejection of Greek influence and their eager overseas proselytizing,[10]“The rise of the Pharisees may thus be seen, in a sense, as a reaction against the more profound Hellenization favoured by the Sadducees, who were allied with the philhellenic Hasmoneans”
“The eagerness of the Pharisees to win converts is attested in The Gospel According to Matthew (23:15), which states that the Pharisees would ‘traverse sea and land to make a single proselyte.’”
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Judaism/Hellenistic...ury-ce so their movement would’ve been closely linked with Carthaginian converts who resented the domination of the Greco-Roman civilization. Prof. Shahak pointed out how modern Judaism is fixated on rituals, sometimes without regard to whether God or Satan is being worshipped. This obsession with ritual over substance is also something Jesus condemned the Pharisees for, and it could be evidence that they compromised with their new allies. One can easily imagine how the Pharisees may have started off with good intentions in their mission to convert the Carthaginian masses, but found them more stubborn than hoped. Tempted by the wealth and power that these potential new converts could bring them, the Pharisees essentially made a Faustian bargain with the Carthaginians, downplaying differences of theology and emphasizing areas of less controversy, such as superficial rituals and the coming of a messiah. As a result, Carthaginian Saturnism gradually infected the Pharisees, and this new syncretic religion blinded them to the Messiah that would not revive the empire.
A tragic fall in this fashion would really just be a rhyming of history, as the Old Testament includes many stories of the Israelites being negatively influenced by surrounding pagans. St. Stephen appears to allude to this in his speech to the Sanhedrin (Acts 7), where he compares their actions to those of disobedient Israelites in the Old Testament, including some who decided to worship Moloch and Remphan over God:
“Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.”
-Acts 7:43
Remphan (or Rephan) is the Egyptian name for Saturn.[11]https://www.internationalstandardbible.com/R/rephan.html Stephen is referencing Amos 5:26 when he refers to the star of Remphan:
“But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.”
-Amos 5:26
Chiun is the Hebrew name for Saturn, and the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary on this verse states that Saturn was probably represented with a star symbol: “Probably there was a figure of a star on the head of the image of the idol, to represent the planet Saturn; hence “images” correspond to “star” in the parallel clause.”[12]https://biblehub.com/commentaries/jfb/amos/5.htm It seems quite possible that Carthaginian influence led to a revival in the usage of this star of Saturn symbol, and is what led Stephen to refer to this specific verse.
When asking ourselves what this star symbol may have looked like, there is of course one very obvious candidate: the Star of David. Not many Christians seem to be aware of this, but there is no mention in the Old Testament of any sort of “star” of David, a star symbol for David, or anything else that could plausibly link David with the modern Jewish symbol.[13]https://www.gotquestions.org/star-of-David.html Theories for the origin of the Star of David are vague and varied, but the Jewish Virtual Library’s page on the topic interestingly says that “The oldest undisputed example is on a seal from the seventh century B.C.E. found in Sidon.”[14]https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/magen-david#goo...gnette Sidon was a major Canaanite/Phoenician city, and the 7th century BC is just a century after the prophet Amos is said to have lived.[15]https://www.britannica.com/topic/Book-of-Amos
The page also states that Arab and Jewish sources referred to the hexagram as “the seal of Solomon” and that this connects the symbol with early “Judeo-Christian” magic such as the first-century[16]https://web.archive.org/web/20190503205000/https://w...rding/ magical work The Testament of Solomon. In this non-canonical work, God gives Solomon a ring engraved with a pentagram that allows him to control demons, and the story ends with Solomon worshipping Moloch and Remphan in exchange for sex. This seems to be the earliest documentary source for the Star of David, which happens to be from the time Stephen lived and happens to also link the symbol with Saturn/Remphan.
Were Amos and Stephen speaking of the Star of David when they condemned this star of Saturn symbol? We may never be able to confirm this, but given that the oldest example of the Star of David is from around the time of Amos, in a major city of Saturn worshippers, and its first documented appearances also associate it with Saturn in the time of Stephen, this seems highly likely. It also seems highly likely that Carthaginian pagan influence played a role in the Jewish corruption that led to Christ’s crucifixion, as Canaanite influence did with the spurning of Amos.
What I will engage in now will be pure speculation, and it might seem outlandish, but I do think it logically follows from Christian belief. If you’re a Christian, you believe that God spoke to and revealed many things to the Israelites in the Old Testament, and you also believe that Satan is real and does engage with humanity at least occasionally. Keeping that in mind, the Jewish Virtual Library states a revealing motive behind the widespread usage of the Star of David: “The prime motive behind the wide diffusion of the sign in the 19th century was the desire to imitate Christianity. The Jews looked for a striking and simple sign which would “symbolize” Judaism in the same way as the cross symbolizes Christianity.” Christians have long seen the sun as a natural symbol of God, and if God created a natural symbol of Satan, Saturn would be a logical choice. Saturn is the most distant planet from the sun that the ancients were aware of, and is also quite literally chained by its rings. In 1981, the Voyager mission made the remarkable discovery of a giant hexagonal storm on Saturn’s north pole, something the ancients could not possibly have been aware of, which makes it very coincidental that a hexagram ended up representing Saturn.
In Greek mythology, Saturn was also chained by Jupiter,[17]https://trisagionseraph.tripod.com/Texts/Cicero2.html another coincidence given that the ancients were also unaware of Saturn’s rings. Did Satan reveal aspects of Saturn to entice the Canaanites to idolatry? Did he then revive the symbol they created, so he could counter the cross after Christ’s resurrection? Of course this is purely speculatory, but this is a series of coincidences that I think is worth pondering for any believing Christian.
Far from being a simple origin story of the Jewish people, the Carthaginian theory recontextualizes thousands of years of Christian-Jewish relations and Biblical history. Zionists would find themselves the villains of their own story, and the past three millennia would look like a continuous tale of combat between the people of God and a wicked Saturnian cult. Instead of a principled commitment to the Hebrew scriptures that Rabbinic Jews claim is their reason for rejecting Christ, the real reason would look more like pagan corruption, combined with an undying grudge against Rome and its Church, which stole their empire from them in the same way that the Israelites banished them from their homeland. Rome succeeding the Israelites in this fashion would prefigure the Roman Church as the new Israel. Instead of joining the new Israel, Jews still seek the old one, completely unaware that it was never even theirs. Perhaps, with better knowledge of their origins, they could finally find the humility to end their wandering in the wilderness.
Notes
[1] https://thomistica.net/letter-to-margaret-of-flanders#:~:text=Thomas%20Aquinas%27s%20Letter%20to%20Margaret,other%20issues%2C%20as%20well).
[2] https://www.worldhistory.org/Carthaginian_Religion/#google_vignette
[3] https://library.biblicalarchaeology.org/article/phoenicia-and-its-special-relationship-with-israel/
[4] https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2014-01-23-ancient-carthaginians-really-did-sacrifice-their-children
[5] https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/2016-07-28/ty-article/did-the-phoenicians-even-exist/0000017f-eab1-ddba-a37f-eafff7340000
[6] https://www.academia.edu/38440339/Abraham_Ibn_Ezras_Appropiation_of_Saturn pg. 40
[7] https://katz.sas.upenn.edu/resources/blog/saturn-and-jews
[8] https://forward.com/news/9794/the-sabbath-planet/
[9] https://www.britannica.com/topic/Judaism/Hellenistic-Judaism-4th-century-bce-2nd-century-ce
[10] “The rise of the Pharisees may thus be seen, in a sense, as a reaction against the more profound Hellenization favoured by the Sadducees, who were allied with the philhellenic Hasmoneans”
“The eagerness of the Pharisees to win converts is attested in The Gospel According to Matthew (23:15), which states that the Pharisees would ‘traverse sea and land to make a single proselyte.’”
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Judaism/Hellenistic-Judaism-4th-century-bce-2nd-century-ce
[11] https://www.internationalstandardbible.com/R/rephan.html
[12] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/jfb/amos/5.htm
[13] https://www.gotquestions.org/star-of-David.html
[14] https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/magen-david#google_vignette
[15] https://www.britannica.com/topic/Book-of-Amos
[16] https://web.archive.org/web/20190503205000/https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/divinity/rt/otp/guestlectures/harding/
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These wacky theories seem to come from a desire to claim that the “settlers” in “Palestine” aren’t really descendants of the Israelites, or not the right descendants of the Israelites, presumably because the proponents of the theories want the govt of Israel to be delegitimized by showing some sort of eternal connection to that area by some other group, even though no people in any country anywhere are known to be the original inhabitants of that area, and for the most part historically nobody has cared (eg it has never been a mainstream idea to evict all Europeans from North America and Australia) until the notion came up that the people ruling Israel should be displaced.
The International Jews and the people ruling Israel have engaged in the same shenanigans for which the Israelites were criticized and lambasted relentlessly by their own prophets since before Carthage was a colony. Child sacrifice has never been part of Judaism. The geographical area called “Canaan” and later “Palestine” was a hoddge podge of ethnic groups before the 2nd millennium BC, and it’s meaningless to suggest that one generally middle-eastern racial or ethnic group is more or less autochtonous to that region than any other; the area was continuously inhabited for thousands of years before recorded history.
The Israelites were always a mixed race group, notorious for constantly marrying outside their community, and their claim as far as being “chosen” was that they are descendants of Abraham and the people Moses lead out of Egypt. There’s not reason to think that some large group of non-Israelite people “converted” to Judaism, and that wouldn’t explain anything about the represhensible behavior of the Jews, which clearly goes back to at least the late second millennium BC.
The Jews are not the Israelites! Anyone who studies the ancient Assyrian tablets or reads the book Missing Links Discovered by E. Raymond Capt must understand that the real Israelites, the descendants of Jacob with whom GOD made the covenant, were almost completely removed from the land and settled in northern Mesopotamia. Later, they moved into lower Asia, crossed the Caucasus (Caucasian), and settled all over Europe!
Only the remnants in Jerusalem were later captured by Babylon. Only 42,000 moved back to Jerusalem. The whole land of ancient Israel and Juda was taken over by Canaanites. After the Maccabees had thrown off the Greeks, they conquered all of the cities in the land and forced the Canaanites to convert to Judaism —which was already heavily messed up with Babylonian paganism and mysticism at that time—or be driven off or killed.
When Jesus walked the land, Judea, as it was named as a Roman province, was a cesspool of mixed races similar to NYC today, and the REAL ISRAELITES (unmixed descendants of Jacob-Israel) were a minority (see Flavius Josephus book 13, and Strabo of Cappadocia book 6) Herrod had slaughtered the last Maccabean High Priest and had installed mostly Canaanites as High Priests at that time. Most of those who were REAL ISRAELITES left Jerusalem – based on the warnings of Jesus (MATT 24) during the interruption of the War when Vespasian went back to Rom at the death of Nero to become emperor.
The so-called Jews are actually the mixed races of Edomite-Canaanite Esau descendants. They never had a covenant with GOD, and they are imposers, nothing else. If the White Christians in the Western World would finally realize who they really are, we might have a little chance to become free again.
The origin of the Phoenicians is somewhat shrouded in mystery, but it is thought that Sidon was a mother-city. From there, maritime outposts were established, including Tyre and Carthage, which eventually became cities in their own right.
Sidon and Tyre were conquered by the armies of Alexander the Great. Carthage fell to the Romans less than two hundred years later.
The author’s premise is that the Pharisees, the opponents of Jesus Christ, were pagans who fled Carthage and converted to Judaism. If this is true, then Christ would have known the identity of the Pharisees.
Christ said, “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.” (Mtw 11:21-22)
The charge is that Sidon and Tyre did not repent, so they were condemned by God and destroyed. But, if the inhabitants of those cities had witnessed the miracles performed by Jesus, then those cities would have repented and survived.
The other cities mentioned, Chorazin and Bethsaida, were places that had seen the miracles of Christ and heard His teachings, and still had the opportunity to repent.
By mentioning the two Phoenician cities, was Christ implying that He knew the Pharisees had fled from Carthage? Was He threatening that, unless they repent, then their current place of residence would be destroyed like Carthage was destroyed?
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying the Pharisees were actual ethnic Jews who were originally genuine to Judaism, but they became corrupted through their attempts to convert the pagan Carthaginians.
Yes, but it was frequently (although not always) the influence of surrounding Canaanite pagans that caused this behavior among the Israelites.
They were condemned for doing this when it happened though. Ezra 9:2.
There actually is, I suggest you read Ron Unz’s article on this topic:
https://www.unz.com/runz/prof-john-beaty-and-the-true-origin-of-the-jews/
Ok. If the Pharisees became corrupted through their efforts to convert pagans who fled from Carthage (a Phoenician city), then what do you make of Jesus Christ citing the destruction of two other Phoenician cities? Is it simply due to geography and proximity to those two cities?
I think I misunderstood what you were originally saying. Yes, I think there could be a connection there. It is possible, maybe even likely, that some of the Pharisees were direct Carthaginian or Phoenician converts and Jesus was issuing a warning to them, as you said. I think it’s also possible that Jesus is referring to the Pharisees failing to fully convert Sidon and Tyre. Jesus may be saying that he could’ve converted Sidon and Tyre to genuine Judaism, whereas the Pharisees settled for half-way. Because the Pharisees sold out their religion for power, they will be judged more harshly than the half-converted pagans who were just clinging to their traditions. Thank you for bringing up that verse though, it’s definitely worth analyzing.
The “Yahweh is one” formula is most likely the result of reforms that made the temple in Jerusalem the central and the only “approved” place of Yahweh worship. After the Israelites adopted Yahweh as their “national” deity, different settlements worshiped their own “local” Yahwehs, like “Yahweh of Samaria” and “Yahweh of Teman.” At some point there was a top-down reform instructing the Israelites to worship only Yahweh and not other deities of the local pantheon of that region, and to only worship the central Yahweh in Jerusalem (that’s what “the Lord is one” is referring to).
The worship of Yahweh’s spouse (concubine?) Asherah was dropped at some point, but that’s not what “the Lord is one” is about. Even the modern mainstream version of Yahweh (both in Jewish and Christian understanding of this god) is perceived as a male deity, he doesn’t have female characteristics (unless one is into some Masonic/satanic gender-fluid shit).
I wouldn’t put too much trust in different shit that NASA tries to feed us. They still maintain that the Apollo astronauts actually went to the Moon, after all. Look at their Pluto “photo” with the image of Disney’s cartoon dog Pluto in it. That “hexagonal storm” on Saturn is just another NASA hoax.
See Judges 11, for example. Jephthah sacrifices his only daughter, a virgin, to Yahweh in a burnt offering as part of Jephthah’s deal with Yahweh, who helped him defeat the Ammonites.
The modern Spanish DNA studies advertise/show some kind of 6-9% Jewish population based on Levantine Jewish genetic markers.
I merely pointed out in a thread that such a genetic trace is more likely the settlers from Carthage who founded Cartagena, Barcelona, Cadiz who are in fact originate from a city 30 miles from Jerusalem anyway. Tyre. Also add Joppa, Acre etc. If I recall Ron read it and introduced his own variation on the obvious point.
The city of Tyre gives the Bible Jezebel and wider Mediterranean myth Dido. It’s no coincidence. The Carthaginians were shipborne worldly. The Jews were hillbillies who run up the hills. Look at a fucking Map. It explains much about the spread of Judaism. Who knows if the Shipping Phoenicians were not carrying various Jews as a free rider.
Jesusneverexisted.com
The Gospels first appeared in 4thCE as part of the first New Testament, which were part of the First Christian Bible – Published under the Sponsorship of Constantine AFTER Nicea.
The Cult wasn’t just “Finalized” – the Cult Premise was Authored, then Amalgamated with other Cult Elements (Solstice/Death/Rebirth/Resurrection Worshipping Dionysus, Mithras, and the previously disdained “Chrestus Cult” (so called “proto-christians” by christo-apologists – ever despised by Romans) to establish a “Gentile Cult” Version of the Jewish Messiah…
…in a Lame and Failed attempt to Hijack Judaism and Jewish+Sumerian Theological Entities and Lore.
Job and Abraham were from Sumer (Land of Ur). Job isn’t Jewish, so call Patriarch Job (and possibly Adam up to Abraham…
…”Appropriated”…
Even AD01 – CE01 for us Secular Folk – was declared by a Christian Monk in the 6thCE – 200years after Nicea – well after the Christian control of Rome, followed by the fall of Rome, well into the European Religious Dark Ages.
Technology and Sciences lost for about a Millennia…
***This is why there are no Secular Accts of Jesus or his Disciples in the 1stCE…
******
Judging the Jewish through Christian Cult Fantasies is a failed endeavor and a waste of time.
It’s the same Nonsense as when Jehovah’s Witnesses, Moonies, Blackie Jesus, Jews4Jesus, and Mormons intrude, interfere, and micromanage your personal life, livelihood, religious/spiritual endeavors – even studying Judaism by appealing to their Masonic+Catholic+Christian Associates.
FUBAR’d Society Forever Lost within their own and affiliates’ Delusions.
The Jewish Scholars don’t care, because they’ve debunked the Gospels already – didn’t pass muster.
Time to bring this Cult Fantasy to their quickly deserved end so Human Society+Civilization can move forward.
Heaven is watching.
How can a Legitimate Theory be based on purely RELIGIOUS mythical Texts? Thats not a believable theory is more speculation. I hope someday the UNZ Review pubish a theory about JEWS based on HISTORY/Anthropoloy/Archeology/and DNA facts..ALL those fields will show that Zionists JEWS in Israel have NO links with the ancient jews. It is puzzling to me that you see palestinians/iranians/iraquies/Syrians/Lebanese etc. they all LOOK indigenous to those lands. Yet you look at most JEWS and they all look WHTE Europeans…with names like Smodricht, Herzog, Perez,, etc. which are NOT Middle Eastren names,BORN outside Palestine/Israel.. but European names, looks, langauge. and of cousre DNA. More than 3kyrs make the jews of today radically dffent form the ancient jews. Lets remember that The Torah is NOT the same as The Old Testament in the Bible. he original Hebrew/Arameic language refers to JEWS and it dosent apply to the goyim. It is puzzling that their prophet Isaiah and even Manoninides clearly say that the jewish messiah would be the INCARNATION of God, and that the Messiah must die and resurrect fro teh dead. Exactly the same reasons that jews rejected JesusChrist..?? Yet jews whom do not have any previous evdnece for their Moschiac claimed thate he will come to make jews rulers of the World..a moschiac taht had never come for 5Kyrs,, and will nevcer come. According to ancunet scholars, greek/roman medical drs..JEWS practiced child sacrifce to Moloch. I have come to believe that Judaism is a cult to Moloch, and the rebbe Luvabitch Tunnels in Brooklyn proves it. Jews rejected Christ because they saw him as a threat to their centralize RABBINICAL power (Caiphas)., apower they still retain today..israel is not a democracy it is a Rabbinical Theocracy.Jjewish power doesnt come from God gieven their blood lust, criminal, immoral inhuman books, words and ACTIONS…Jews are the people of the serpent, tehir original covennat is not with God it is with Moloch. Gentiles must break their mind slever to Jewish Religious mythical books.
The Jewish DNA said to show up and exist in Spain, is in my opinion a remnant of Carthaginian founder colonies in Cazid, Barcelona and Cartagena etc. Which would be difficult to distinguish given that the Tyre Sidon Joppa cities were the root of the Carthaginians.
We also have the folk memory in Jonah. The hillbilly preacher who flees on a Phoenician ship to Tarshish.
What was the altar sacrifice, called off in the last moment, of Isaac by Abraham then? Sure it shows that habit stopping but, obviously the original readers were killing children and the story designed to stop it.
Q. “The culture of the Jewish people following the death of Christ has puzzled Christians for centuries. How could the people of the Old Testament, who followed God (albeit imperfectly), persist in rejection of Christ and exist in what appeared to be such a uniquely amoral state?” (That’s as far as i got.)
A. To stand apart from the “Holy Narrative” they and the Romans created, breed with select non “Jews” (big family money fucking big family money), make camouflaged hybrid “Jews”, gradually stitch the world together with Mammon sophistry and the industrial sophistication they loaned for… and Here We Are, at the gates of the latest “End Times”, bitching about it and waiting nervously for the next stage.
Meh. I’m just spitballin’ here.
The question of a possible Phoenician descend of Sephardi/Ashkenazi populations can already be adressed with available DNA data. Here’s why and how:
The Phoenician-descended populations of Imperial Roman Northafrica should have had significant native Nordwest African heritage (as measured by the Dodecad K=12 and it’s “NW African” ancestry component), due to admixture in Carthagenian and post-Carthaginian times (500 year or more!).
Hence, if modern European Jews are derived from these people, they should show elevated levels of that ancestry compared to
a) Iron-Age Israelites
b) Modern-day reference populations in the Levant
That they also experienced some degree of European admixture in the meantime can be easily adjusted for.
Dodecad K=12 cluster analysis data (modern population): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GWhNZcfTQ2hMSK9Ni1IqG7aXHB00SRE5L6ED2osPs9M/edit#gid=0
For ancient populations, see:
https://eupedia.com/genetics/genomic_analysis_ancient_europeans.shtml
Iron Age Israel: 7,23% NW Africa
Modern Jordanians: 5,5% NW Africa
Modern Palestinians: 5,4% NW Africa
Modern Lebanese: 4,7% NW Africa
Modern Samaritians; 4,5% NW Africa
Compare with:
Sephardic Jews: 6,2% NW Africa
Ashkenazi Jews: 4,2% NW Africa
Roughly ~33% European admixture in Ashkenazi means we need to adjust their value upwards –
Ashkenazi source: 6,3% NW Africa
Adjustment problematic for Sephardi because they would have picked up some NW African genes during their Medieval stay in those countries (Moroccan Jews have 9,5% thereof for example).
Ignoring this and estimating about 25% European admixture in Sephardi:
Sephardi source (upper boundary): 8,3% NW Africa
To demonstrate that NW African levels would have been significant, consider:
Modern Algerians: 34,7% NW Africa
Modern Egyptians: 10,9% NW Africa
Iron Age & Hellenistic Egypt: 8,95% NW Africa
Just the proximity of Tyre and Galilee and Joppa with Jerusalem, seems to decisively frame Carthage and Jerusalem as theological off shoots of the famed port cities on that coastal strip. The worldly ones got on ships and the preachy fire n brimstone ones hid out in the hills. Same folk though.
One group maintained the ancient child roasting and the other just wanted to burn down neighbouring villages. Jonah looks like an account of a redneck Jerusalemite free rider cruising around the sophisticated cousin’s western colonies.
“What have you done Jonah?”
“Throw me overboard boys!”
Seas calmed. Phoenicians sailors got it right.
The only issue I see with these theories is that the Old Testament israelites behave in many ways like modern israelis.
“god” giving an “illness” to the firstborn children in Egypt after a business disagreement, wiping out people in Palestine and taking their women? Doesn’t really sound like something Jesus would do.
Even when they are worshipping golden calves and “god” is angry at them, it fits their character.
Is not there confusion on whether it was satan or “god” asking David to make a census, after all?
What if they are one and the same?
Metaphysically, I would interpret Christianity as a futile attempt by the Sky Father to save them from themselves.
Or you could see it as Hellenization due to European Greeks’ civilizing influence, from a more materialistic point of view.
i’ll finish this article tomorrow, but first impressions/notes:
DNA can show what physical ethnicity someone is/was but not what religion they are/were a part of. also not what time they spent in which region. there plenty of black folks who are more british than other folks of british genetic “descent”. i’m a walking scottish stereotype but i’ve never set foot in the place. while the khazar theory has its plot holes the actual DNA “slam dunks” show a dispersal within a wide geographical area roughly analogous to the map of the “ottoman empire” and the persian one before it. that’s like saying “this skeleton seems to be of manhattan ancestry”.
all this only matters to biological essentialists/materialists/reductionists. skinfolk ain’t kinfolk. also: being related to the maniacs who lived in that region at that time is a weird brag. assimilated jews know this as do the orthodox lot who say “mashiach or it didn’t happen”.
big up to the shlomo sand reference in any case. he and gilad atzmon are two very honest jewish blokes and should form a voltron robot with norman finkelstein and noam chomsky.
No mention of Hannibal the Carthaginian so fiercely determined to conquer Rome, who carried out heroic fetes to do so but ultimately failed, defeated by Roman general Scipio.
The irony: H. Sacher wrote in 1919 that “The Zionist movement dates from 70 AD, the year of the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish state [by Rome] .”
Hannibal was required to sacrifice his own first-born.
And today’s IDF Hannibal doctrine: sacrifice the children of Jewry? Hebrews? Zionists? rather than allow their imprisonment by the enemy.
Does that mean Bibi will continue slaughtering people of Gaza until he is certain that all the captured Jews are dead?
In which case, Hamas can save their own Palestinian people by killing their Jewish prisoners.
What Cato will arise to decree the destruction of the latest redoubt of the neo-Carthaginians/zionists?
Actually, nope.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4860683/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5478715/
To this day Jews admit they worship Saturn in their art, albeit esoterically. See my link.
Too right, Anon. All this talk of “Ezra did this or that” is based on a childish trust in a fairy tale text.
1, These people and events never happened (like basing a history of the Germans on Goldilocks and the Three Bears)
2. The people and events are distorted to present the Temple Jews as the heroes: claims about the “evil Canaanites and other pagans” are just propaganda, from the peope who brought you tales of the Holycost and Hamas.
Adding in talk of DNA and linguistics doesn’t make it any better: garbage in, garbage out. This stuff is as “scientific” or even as “historical” as Von Danikan’s chariots.
I’m convinced by the explanatory power of this theory. The Khazar Theory lacks evidence, even though it is initially attractive.
Two truths stand out:
1. Those who identify as “jews” today aren’t related in any significant way to the noble figures of the Old Testament.
2. The “Christian Zionists” who believe they are have revealed themselves as the most cowardly, most ignorant persons of European ancestry ever.
Too right, IronForge. 2000 years of theology and pseudo-science devoted to these con men and their stupid “scriptures.”
We know what the problem is: Jews. Time to take care of it once and for all. All else is distraction.
This is just another attempt to somehow designate a group of Good Jews that Christians can feel good about worshiping and imitating.
The tell, the common feature to all these theories, from “Wandering Jews” to Mormons to this stuff here, is the idea that “the pagans” (i.e. all non-Jews) are evil and corrupt anyone dealing with them. At its extreme, the “British Israelites” or “Christian Identity” cults, the goyim are so eager to shed their nature that they even proclaim that they themselves are the “real” Jews!
The idea that the Jews, universally regarded throughout all time as the biggest liars and scumbags around, could be “corrupted” by contact with pagans, is pure, self-serving Jewish propaganda (more lies from the lying liars), eagerly sucked up by goyim who want to secure their status as “brother Jews” (or, as above, the “real” Jews), superior to the rest of the goyim (cf. the Puritans and other Woke Whites whose social status comes from not being lower class white trash).
But yeah, if you believe your Bible like you were told when you were five, then have fun larping as Israelites. (Again, Christianity becomes Wokism: from “Believe the Bible” to “Believe the Science”)
So like – ” Ya , We killed your Christ and we’d do it again – what ya gonna do about it? And we’ll kill your families and society with our lust for owning money, all the businesses and governments – we steal then destroy in order to grow”
Nothing more than a centuries old insane Mafia that everybody with big money joined and partnered up with. It all started with criminal acts and it must be dealt with even more murderous criminal acts in order to stop it. Period.
This parallels a lot of views David Cooper had on the topic. Eg claimed Hebrew was of Phoenician origin.
Interesting how similarly Jews and Jesuits tap into Pagan populations as a form of human assets. Probably also some parallels with the pre-Nazca rulers of the Aztecs.
According to electric universe theory, which I personally find compelling, the Earth revolved around Saturn within human memory (before the Sun captured us).
On an even more random note, IMO it can’t be understated how much the select founder group of Ashkenazism looks like a conscious, eugenic breeding experiment.
Fulcanelli referres to this symbol as the “di-gamma” or two overlaid gamma characters (one upside down), or two lambda characters (capital lambda).
The more odd bit is that the alchemical tradition (said by some to be borrowed from the egyptians) also includes odd bits of the story of the manna, as well as the documented fact that the egyptian kings consummed a sort of “communion” or sacred bread and wine (red beer). The bread in the form of conical or triangular blobs.
Of course the more modern interpretations of the solomon seal divided into 12 triangular segments (symbolic of the 12 tribes) is a back-formation. By the time of solomon, the 10 tribes had been “lost”.
In the modern era, this symbol also has a 3 dimensional variant called variously the inscribed dual tetrahedron or also the Star-Tetrahedron. It is thought to have some relevance in certain theories of physics. (and at least one odd poem by James Clerk Maxwell).
Although i might also add that we find in the book of Job a fairly clear assertion that the earth is a sphere floating in space “suspended on nothing”. In spite of the rather prosaic pastoral millieu of the peoples of the levant, there is a fair bit of evidence that they possesed remnant bits of much older astronomical knowledge.
That weird desire felt by Judaising heretics to somehow expunge Jews from the Old Testament when it is the Old Testament that should be expunged from people’s minds.
Per Erickson:
I stopped reading Erickson’s article at that sentence. I despise Orthodox Judaism, which is evil (an evil used by Zionists and Israel to “justify” their genocidal treatment of Palestinians). But I despise also toxic fraud like the sentence quoted above. That fraud feeds the hatred and contempt Orthodox and Zionist Jews feel toward goyim and “justifies” the criminal and tortious acts and unethical business practices such Jews commit against goyim. And it is grist for such Jews’ discrediting criticism of their manifest evil.
Erickson links one of Ron Unz’s articles for support of the above-quoted assertion. In that article, Ron Unz bases his blood libel or Blood Passover assertion on a grave misrepresentation of Ariel Toaff, “BLOOD PASSOVER: The Jews of Europe and Ritual Murder” (2007 translation per Gian Marco Lucchese & Pietro Gianetti), available at http://israelshamir.net/BLOODPASSOVER.pdf
Toaff did NOT prove “blood libel” or “blood Passovers” occurred. Rather he proved that “blood libel” or “blood Passover” was just a dark myth.
See my comment that appears here, https://www.unz.com/estriker/jewish-brilliance-synthetic-like-zirconia/#comment-3685359
That comment is comment #102. Begin reading that comment at this sentence:
You must click on the [MORE] button to reach that sentence. Ron Unz hid the here-relevant portion of that comment because that portion exposes his misrepresentation of what Toaff’s book proves.
Find a different website to grift with this well poisoning.
Ancient Israelites were very much mixed race, if by being from races you mean being from other Semitic tribes than the Hebrews. All Canaanite city states, which all were developed out q specific Semitic tribe, were Semitic speaking and were culturally pagan Semitic, which featured a lot of human sacrifice as well as sex rituals that formed part of the ‘liturgy.’ Those two things form the great reason that God ordered Hebrews to avoid any dealings with such people and that when war would erupt the Hebrews should totally destroy them because of their lasting evil from a religion that linked human sacrifice and other violent evils with sexuality and proclaimed the cocktail the path toward divination.
Ancient Semitic languages are divided into two groups: Eastern and Western. AS I am not any type Semitist, I cannot speak at all about how close the two basic groups were linguistically, but what seems clear is that all practiced religion, with gods of various names, that demanded large scale human sacrifice and that promoted a culture that day we would cal Sexual Revolution-based. Priests and priestesses practiced temple prostitution, which was not just to raise money, but also to mimic the religious teachings of the Divine Couplings that could make man godlike. Thus even ‘man-boy love’ was itself ‘religious,’ ‘sacred.’
Most of the language of the Old Testament is circumspect in that it does not wish to warn against such things by making them explicit. That means that it is fairy easy to read all those books and miss that what the Hebrews were literally called out of was a religious culture, which stretched from Mediterranean past the Tigris and Euphrates, defined by large scale human sacrifice and endless sexual revolution which often was liturgized and was presented as embedded most thoroughly and importantly in the clergy.
The ‘secularized’ form of that pagan Semitic culture would be the Modern Sexual Revolution, and per capita all cross the world Jews have driven the rise and enthronement of Sexual Revolution at rates far greater than those of any other people. Carthaginian/Canaanite revenge, and certainly things that all Old Testament prophets would have damned as the very essence of EVIL.
But it also should be stressed that the problem is first and foremost not one of specific Semitic speaking genetics but of the human heart choosing evil and demanding it be called good. The entire Old Testament is filled with examples of Hebrews falling into the worst sins including human sacrifice and temple prostitution (with all the endless sexual abuse of the young and the poor that ensures). That is the reason the Pharisaic ‘Oral Law’ began to be developed: quibbling to rationalize how it was OK for members of the Chosen Race to dabble in such fun and games as were standard for other Semitic tribes. .Over time such quibbling necessarily become an evil unto itself, which is the reason that Jews told Pharisees that their father was not Abraham but Satan; evil choices, like good choices, always overrule genetics and bloodlines.
To start, the ‘noble figures’ in the Old Testament don’t just denounce the evil practices of the Semitic pagans all round them. They also denounce the Hebrews who choose to practice those same evil deeds.
Judaizing heresy of even the most seemingly benign form will, if not refuted and rejected, evolve into what we see with Evangelical Zionism.
the noble figures of the Old Testament are mere fictions. The OT is a work of literature, a work of theology, a set of foundation myths. It is not a work of history.
There was no Abraham or Joseph or Moses or Joshua; there was no exodus, no conquest. It didn’t happen.
The NT is far more interesting. Obviously some of it is inauthentic fairy stories. Some of it appears to be authentic accounts of that time and place.
But is any of it true? How can you distinguish something that might well have happened, but didn’t, from something that might well have happened, and did? Beats me. No wonder that the more thoughtful Christians say you need faith: rationality takes you only so far.
Excellent article! Here’s my two-cents:
A concordance between Saturn and Jehovah would be interesting and revealing. After all, in the Greco-Roman legends, the Titans (lead by Saturn/Kronos) preceded the gods and gave rise to them, only to later be overthrown by the gods. It all bears a curious resemblance to the stories of Satan rebelling against his erstwhile master, Jehovah. The main difference is that, in the Jewish legends, Jehovah (Saturn) was the victor, casting Satan and his legions down to earth; while in Greece and Rome, Jupiter (Zeus) and his brothers were the victors, either enslaving the Titans, or else casting them down into the netherworld of Tartaros. Indeed, most of the ancient civilizations of the Eastern Hemisphere seem to have roughly the same cosmogenesis, with one major problem: they don’t agree on which side were the ‘good guys’ and which side were the ‘bad guys’. Some (like the Greeks, Romans and Hindus) worship the gods, but some (like the Persians) worship the Titans instead.
So if the Jew and the Greco-Romans each worshipped the opposite side in the cosmic struggle (known as the Titanomachia in ancient Greek), that would readily explain their historic enmity.
By the way, the ‘groves’ mentioned contemptuously again and again in the Book of Kings were actually nature shrines dedicated to Ba’al’s wife, Ishtar/Astarte (Asherah in Hebrew).
The Gospels were all written before the destruction of The Temple in 70A.D. Otherwise these same Gospels would have been full of praise for God for fulfilling the prophecies of His Son. Case closed. You are a knucklehead.
But Abraham predated the Mosaic religion. I think the relevant passages for interpreting the binding of Isaac are in Ezekiel where verses saying that God gave the people laws that made them sin and laws that would make them holy are juxtaposed. I think these are actually the same law, written ambiguously, about giving the firstborn to God. For the faithful, this was a law of dedication, while for the unfaithful it was a law of child sacrifice. Abraham obeyed God because he faith that God would intervene. His faithfulness was rewarded by having a command that could have resulted in sin transformed by the ram provided by God, a perfect prefigurement of the crucifixion, which for those outside the church is condemnation by responsibility for the murder of the innocent son, while for those inside the church it is a lamb of God.
The Warburg family are descended from the Venetian Jewish Del Banco family from the Middle Ages. Even Wikipedia admits this. A few authors have claimed that Venitians were descended from Phoenicians. I suppose it’s possible for a few of the defeated Phoenicians to have attempted to assimilate into Judaism after the Punic Wars to hide from the Romans, who apparently really wanted them utterly destroyed, and to have secretly kept some of their old religious practices to be observed in private. I doubt very many would have had the tenacity to keep this up for several generations due to human nature, but if a few practiced things that were illegal like abducting children for sacrifice, then its possible mutual blackmail could have ensured these practices and factions would endure longer than we’d imagine. It’s an interesting theory. Religions with sex rituals probably don’t have much problem keeping the men interested, at least while they are young and naive.
Surely your last sentence should read: “…which is the reason JESUS told the Pharisees that their father was not Abraham but Satan…”
Oh. Do you happen to have a prosaic explanation for this human head being in space, perhaps?
Video Link
Or a prosaic explanation for this human head in space, perhaps?
Video Link
NASA keeps showing you toy models and CGI pretending to be in space and you just eat that shit up like the dumb nigger you are.
Once and for all, eh?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sorry jackass, not going to happen. Your ilk had the motive, means and opportunity numerous times over the past 2000 years, the most recent being the project of a failed Austian painter.
The jews are in a stronger position now than they’ve ever been. They have resources, money, an advanced miliary and nuclear weapons.
I’ve said this elsewhere, but what’s stopping you? Grab your AR15, drive to a jewish community and start exterminating!
What’s that? You’re too much of a cowardly loser?
That’s what I thought.
Keep whining, you sniveling little bitch. You haven’t got the balls to do anything else.
This is excellent and warrants further study. Great job Mr. Erickson!
You will surely be interested in these parallels from the Old Testament with the present times.
https://vaticancatholic.com/abomination-of-desolation-machabees/
You don’t have to worry about genes.
You see, the stories in the Old Testament try to glorify the genocide of the Canaanites, and the stories in the New Testament try to glorify a liar like Jesus as a saint.
This shows that both the Old and New Testaments are essentially evil books.
The easiest way to do that is to burn churches all over the world. Mankind does not need Christianity.
Religion is a thing of the past anyway.
What needs to be passed down is culture.
Thanks. This kind of genetic analysis was missing in this article and Ron Unz’s. You don’t state your conclusion explicitly, but I assume you are suggesting the genetics debunks the theory since the Ashkenazi and Sephardic have similar NW % to Iron Age Israel rather than higher, as would be expected from Phoenician sources.
A certain poetry in casting these creatures as Canaanites who make themselves pathetic by donning the guise of the suffering Jew.
The entrepreneur lives by will and cunning while the husband waits. The prospector tears around the world for curiosities while the goatherd stands among the rocks. When sent out alone, the cowboy must be honest, faithful, as well as brave, trusted as he is to guide, protect, and return. And all the time the merchant uses to procure strange glory, the shepherd submits to God.
The lonely shepherd is silent, except in his prayers.
A Canaanite origin explains the gregariousness and the loquacity, the appetite for luxury, the quickness to borrow colors, the disdain for manual labor, and the preference for urban living. How could such a people produce Jesus Christ the carpenter. As they were, they are.
Religion is part of culture.
True.
Well, she wasn’t dropped completely and permanently. Asherah was later revived by the authors of the Babylonian Talmud under the name of Shekinach, the consort of Jehovah. (Alternatively, some religious scholars do also describe Shekinach as being, not a female deity completely separate from Jehovah, but rather as the feminine ‘aspect’ of Jehovah — making him (Him?) very much like the ‘gender-fluid’ Baphomet of the Free Masons.)
A key part and perhaps THE key part.
For example, the basic large scale moral patterns of Saxon pagans are not the same as Saxons (both Anglo-Saxon and Continental) who were Medieval Catholics, and the Protestant Saxons clearly reverted back to much, maybe most, of the pagan cultural imperatives.
And wasn’t King Solomon’s BFF said to be none other than King Hiram of Tyre, who supposedly donated the (Lebanese cedar) timbers for the construction of the Great Temple in Jerusalem?
This is an excellent post because it quickly and clearly draws a line that must be understood. This is an nearly perfect short presentation of the necessity for any tribe, any nation, any culture to be grounded in Agrarian life and principles, because if it is not, it will necessarily keep perverting.
Hebrew prophets always stank of live stock. And they were certain to warn of the great evils inherent in bright lights/big city.
But what Jews became does not require any large admixture of blood from Canaanites/Carthaginians. All it takes is. whole bunch of Hebrews seduced by things that defined Canaanites/Carthaginians. And that clearly happened.
It was long thought that stories of Carthaginians sacrificing their children were just Roman propaganda. However, the evidence is overwhelming now that they did:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2014-01-23-ancient-carthaginians-really-did-sacrifice-their-children
Given that the Carthaginians were the descendants of the Canaanite pagans mentioned in the Bible, and followed the same religion, it’s almost certain that the Biblical accounts of the Canaanites sacrificing children were true.
Yiddish is a dialect of German; it is not Slavic, even if it has a few words of Slavic origin mixed in here and there.
For whatever it may be worth: The word translated “one” in Dt.6:4 (which you cite) is A Ch D (backward in Hebrew word order). This is not ordinal one (1). Rather, it would be better translated as “united” (back iinto oneness again), as in “For this reason shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall be joined unto his wife [or RE-joined into her] and they shall be ONE (reunited/re-joined) flesh (again, since they had been one in Adam — HaADaM — before the woman was separated from him as an independent entity). IOW, arguably in both cases, put back together (a mental image which surfaces in this discussion several times).
Who cares where they come from. It’s that religion that is the problem. And while the Christians seem to have adopted the Old Testament, that was not always the case. The Church used the Old Testament for one reason and one reason only – to find the foreshadowing of Christ’s coming, which you co uld p probably find in Confucius. It would be the inchoate yearning of all men. The Catholic Church lost many of the books of the Septuagint. That’s how much they revered it. When St. Jerome took it upon himself to translate the Hebrew scripture, using of all people, the rabbis of Jersualem to do it, he was chastised by the Church. He had no damn business doing that. The Church rejected his translations.
Catholics were taught to stay away from the Old Testament because the stories may scandalize them. They certainly scandalize me. The story of “Amalek”, this crazy Yahweh telling the Jews to kill all the Canaanites is not the God I know. Catholics are not permitted to call God, Yahweh. That name, as God, may not part from the lips of a Catholic. Yet,are Catholics now led to believe that this Yahweh is God and that they merely can’t use that name and must use some other name. It’s not only the name that we are not permitted to use. That would make no sense at all. A rose by any other name smells as sweet, is the logic, but this Yahweh doesn’t smell very sweet. I do not recognize this Yahweh as God. He has absolutely nothing in common with the God I believe in. He is alien to the God I believe in. No way would the God I believe in tell the Jews, or whoever he told, or anyone else to kill the Canaanites, every man, woman, child, infant, animal, etc. and I don’t care what kind of sins they committed. All men are made in the Image and Likeness of God. There is no way you kill them as if they were human waste. Nor would the God I believe in tell Abraham to kill his son. Abraham was following the dictates of whatever cockamamie beliefs he had at that time about ritual sacrifice, and while he may have been inspired by the one true God not to do it, it certainly wasn’t God’s voice to tell him to do it, to test him or for any other reason. No way does God “lie”, to test, or for any other reason. God does not lie. Period. In the story of Abraham we may see the foreshadowing of the one true God but the inspiration that came to him, but whoever it was who told him to kill his son was not, in my opinion, God,. The story of Lot is another one of the scandalous stories I find pretty outrageous. If that was what they considered a “just” man, God help them. Even St. Jerome and St. Augustine were scandalized when they learned that some of the prophets were degenerate.
All this understanding has been lost through the years. Now we call Christ a Jew. Even when I was young, they didn’t call him a Jew. We were taught that his race was not a part of Revealed Truth. In other words, we don’t know. While the ancestry of St. Joseph can be traced to the House of David, there is no blood of his that runs through the veins of Christ, and we do not know the lineage of the BVM. There is mere legend that she was a cousin of St. Joseph and that she too is of the House of David, but there is a competing legend that her people come from Northern Russia. Ask the Russians. They know about that legend. It’s the Jesuits who tried to put her in the line of the House of David. We don’t know. It is NOT a part of Revealed Truth. The Judeans called Christ the Gallilean. They did not consider him to be Judean. Josephus, the historian, said that the people of Gallilee were very very different physically, culturally and in temperament than the Judeans. That was the split at the time – it was Israel and Judea, with Judea being geographically protected from invasion, and Israel wide open for invasion. Those that invaded Israel, some stayed and adopted the Hebrew religion.
Christ contradicted the beliefs of the Jews at the time. He contradicted their beliefs about themselves; he contradicted many things about their religion. That’s why they crucified Him, and rather than convert, they cling to that ridiculous belief that they are the “chosen people” and that they may “kill” Amalek. They’re still listening to that devil of a god, Yahweh.
Personally, I’ve always disliked theories from Christians claiming that modern Jews are not the descendants of the Israelites, since they’re theologically unnecessary as the Jews were severed from the covenant for rejecting Christ. The evidence for the Carthaginian theory convinced me though, and the theory originated with H.G. Wells, who was not Christian.
The important thing about the Pharisées, was that they denied the Old Testament, the Torah.
Their Talmud originated i Babylon, in which they explicitly deviated from the Sacred Word.
Just keep that in mind, when you read essays like this, as interesting as this one may be.
The true ethnic origins of modern day Jews doesn’t matter. First of all saying that Jews would be good and civilised were it not for some historical demographic shift, is nonsense. The Old Testament is already a codification of barbaric behaviour and thought patterns, and it is no way a precursor to the New Testament and none of the prophecies have anything to do with Jesus. Christianity certainly is *not*, in any sense, the real fulfilment of Judaism. Furthermore, if there were any mass conversion at any time in history, it would only have involved converts who were already phenotypicaly Jewish. So it would have been a mass conversion of proto-Jews to final-stage Jews.
The worse part of all this is that this discussion seems to take the oxygen out of every conversation about Jews. We can’t talk about Jews now without some priggish bible-thump1er telling us that contemporary Jews “aren’t real”. They’ll also tell us that Christians who don’t agree with them on certain issues “aren’t real”. They may as well be communists telling us that the communism of the Soviet Union “wasn’t real”. I say enough of this.
Re: The Gospels first appeared in 4thCE as part of the first New Testament, which were part of the First Christian Bible – Published under the Sponsorship of Constantine AFTER Nicea.
As reported by German scholar Adolph von Harnack, the first compilation of Christian scriptures was by Marcion, a boat builder in Antioch, in the 200’s AD. The Marcion New Testament rejected the Old Testament and included only Paul’s letters and most of the Gospel of Luke. The other Gospels of Matthew and John had not been written yet. Marcion’s New Testament spread and was adopted from Jerusalem to Rome. Then by 300 AD it disappeared in what must have been a mass book burning.
How then do we now have Marcion’s First New Testament? Well, Tertullian, an African scholar, around 200 AD was hired as a propagandist to spread the notion that Marcion was a heretic – see Tertullian’s book titled Against Marcion. In 1910, Harnack re-constructed Marcion’s testament from Tertullian’s line by line critique of it in his book History of Dogma.
This is also described in John Clabeaux’s 2023 book A Lost Edition of the Letters of Paul-A Reassessment of the Text of the Pauline Corpus Attested by Marcion. Also see http://www.gnosis.org/library/marcion/Harnack.html
The Christian church began in Antioch, Turkey, not Jerusalem.
I’m sorry, the writer just doesn’t make the case that historically there was an upside to converting to Jewism, a profit motive. How does it lead to acquisition? A Messiah? Jewduism was at that point ~1000 years old, why is Mosiach putzing around?
The article seeks to have its cake and Jew it too: modern Jews are Canaanites and Canaanites were so evil that the Jews slaughtered most of them. Then they went to Carthage and one fine day said “You know what? Let’s all go Jew! Wouldn’t that be a hoot?” Really? That’s what you think happened?
How child sacrifice is an evolutionary good escapes me but apparently it happens and if there’s evidence then my beliefs should change. One does well do to remember that Judaism is founded on the willingness to do child sacrifice, and Christianity is founded on an imaginary God killing his own child. I’m beyond Goldilocks on this, all three are abhorrent.
The writer is right, that makes no sense at all.
Wait, what? The writer previously said that “The Jews have a bitchin’ Messiah” was one of the reason the C’thags converted? When they already had one? Fine, you look smart, now get your story straight.
Then the writer seemingly equates a pentagram and the Seal of Solomon. Not even topologically, Son.
It would be nice if this article could be redone without any references to the Old Testament, which is definitely not a reliable historical source. Ditto for Christianity. “follows logically from Christian belief” my chairmate.
It sounds like you’re ready for Gnostic Christianity. They taught that Christ was not the son of Jehovah (whom they called either Yaldabaoth, Samael or Saklas, and regarded as a demon), but rather the son of the one, true universal God. Marcion of Sinope, who preceded the Gnostic Christians by a few years, I believe, also taught the same thing.
Certainly the Old Testament records God’s exasperation with Israel’s helplessness before temptation. He commanded Israel to exterminate this kind, but the tribes of Israel disobeyed and went to live among them, intermarrying.
This discussion of racial and theological ledgerdemain and kikeological mind fuckery should become essential and required study in every insane asylum on Earth. It won’t cure any of the inmates but it will keep their little deranged minds occupied.
Good post, that is a poetic way of thinking about it. The merchant seeks the riches of this world, the shepherd is content with the riches of the next one. The merchants converted, but never had an internal transformation, and instead used their new religion as basically a marketing scheme.
“Israelite descendants are now physically in combat with Canaanite descendants in the holy land.”
Now that is poetic justice!
I’m also confused as to why the Carthaginians would convert lol.
You and Leon Trotsky could have been a nice party pair.
The most deluded fools always miss the largest mountains. The worst horror native to most of the world’s ewer all tamed, if not necessarily outlawed, by historic Christian expansion. The undoing of that started with the Reformation, sniff then the secular natural fruit of Protestantism meant that the 19th century would be a beast behind compare. Then the 20th topped it, as the world became even less Christian. Now we have the 21st, which easily could get much worse than the 20th. And pea;le like you are legion in this age.
IT is either Christ and Christendom or Chaos in which per capita Jews will come to dominate in every way. If you are not working for the former, you are aiding the latter
I thought that the era of dumb Polak jokes was over. But now it seems that the Judeo-Polish government is determined to bring them back with a vengeance. Will this never end?🙃😆
Were the inland places more like flyover country compared to the sophisticated coastal cities? The Middle East and North Africa may have shared a broad culture where the lines between Judaism and Phoenicia were blurred
FWIW: Regarding Hannibal and Rome’s alleged victory over him, read and ponder
http://www.malagabay.wordpress.com/1018/09/28/the-great-splice
for some pretty persuasive evidence that it was Carthage/Phoenicia that defeated Rome and took it over — not the other way around.
Likewise we have hordes of people today who deny large scale Aztec human sacrifice.
Many people don’t seem to be aware that I did not originate this theory, and the purpose of my article was not to make the strongest case for it. I’m simply describing the religious implications of it. If you want to see the theory in more detail, read:
https://www.unz.com/runz/prof-john-beaty-and-the-true-origin-of-the-jews/
They converted because of the promise of a messiah, not because one already existed.
The page from the Jewish Virtual Library traces the Seal of Solomon to the pentagram in that story. It states that the pentagram and the hexagram were frequently used interchangeably, but that the hexagram eventually became dominant.
A core point of the article is to show how this theory would impact the Christian understanding of the Jews. If you’re not Christian, you obviously don’t have to listen to those parts.
Yeah, we can try to play around with different numbers, but the data puts rather strict constraints on the amount of Phoenician admixture possible.
In the meantime, I found two studies investigating the admixture status of the Carthaginian population itself, one with craniometry, the other per ancient DNA analysis.
1. “Carthaginian Affinities with Ancient and Recent Maghreban and Levantine Groups: Craniometric Analyses Using Distance and Discrimination” (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-018-9285-3%5D
“The results indicate a craniometric pattern intermediate to the two ancient series (one Phoenician, the other Maghreban), but slightly closer to the one from the ancient Maghreb.”
2. “A Genetic History of Continuity and Mobility in the Iron Age Central
Mediterranean” (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.13.483276v1%5D
“These results indicate that autochthonous North African populations contributed substantially to the genetic makeup of Kerkouane [Punic town on Tunisian coast] … Yet, surprisingly, we did not detect individuals with large amounts of Levantine ancestry at Kerkouane.”
So that Carthaginian town was peopled half with native Northafricans and half with immigrants from Sicily, Magna Graecia and Central Italy. There was even a sample from the Sahara, yet no Levantines. Those were found, at low frequency (~9%) in the Etruscan town sampled (2/22). Probably, low sample numbers at both the Tunisian and the Sardinian site (n=12 resp. 11) made us miss the 1/10 real Phoenicians by chance.
What Punic colonization of the Sardinian coast meant was bringing 5 parts Northafricans and 1 part Sicilians to Sardinia, corroborating the finding that Levantines were a minority in the Carthaginian towns themselves.
The authors tentatively conclude that:
“… the colonial expansion of Phoenician city-states at the start of the Iron Age did not involve large amounts of population mobility, and may have been based on trade relationships rather than occupation.”
The term ‘Jew’ itself is used so often that it has lost its meaning, thus adding to the confusion which exists with both sides in this chaos of deliberate obfuscation. That is why I have chosen the term DaSynagogue of Satan to describe the perps. We need to recognize who our enemy is first, by coming to understand that today’s Jews are NOT the Israelites of Moses and other prophets – the proof of which is thoroughly covered in DaLimbraw Library.
The hardest thing for both secularists and churchians to understand in their worldview, is that the fundamental cause of all the conflict in history is and always has been spiritually based. The secularists simply dismiss it, while churchians practice their religion as escapist pietists – both totally missing the reality of God’s sovereignty.
All roads lead to DaSynagogue of Satan (DSOS) – https://crushlimbraw.blogspot.com/2022/10/propaganda-lifeblood-of-dasynagogue-of.html?m=0 – and when you pursue truth in everything, it will become clear to you as well. What you see are the physical and material consequences of a spiritual battle since the dawn of man. Once you recognize DSOS in action NOW – it will become self-evident who they are and always have been.
But Jews existed before Christianity, and then Christianity came along, Jews continued to exist, and now we face demographic annihilation. So the only hard fact we’eve got is that things have become much worse under Christianity than they were before. I’m aware that correlation isn’t causation, but wherever we observe correlation we must consider the possibility of causation.
Seems more likely to me that the Jews adopted Set as their deity, during their time in Egypt, as suggested by Plutarch, Tacitus and others. In the beginning Set was a trickster god, a la Loke, but evolved into the manifestation of all evil. When the semite Hyksos people invaded and ran Egypt for a century in 1600s bc, they merged the caananite stormgod Baal with Set. Several ancient writers suggested that Hyksos was phoenician in origin. The Jewish historian Josephus even claimed that they were Jewish.
Possibly the patriarch Joseph made their invasion possible, during his time as court Jew to the Pharaoh, wrecking the nation. And when the Egyptians got their stuff together, a century later, they also expulsed the Jews, along with the Hyksos. (Like 1492 in Spain, with the muslims.)
Later on, during their exile in Babylon and move to Persia, they adopted bits and pieces of their hosts religions, hence the hodge podge of superstitions and devil worship Shahak described.
But fundamentally Yahve is Set, the manifestation of all evil, as anyone sane who’s read the Bible can discern.
It was common in pre-Christian Rome and Greece to describe the Jews as an evil donkey god cult, associated with Set, but when Judeo-Christianity took the power, it disappeared. The Judeo-Christians understandably didn’t want Yahve associated with Set and donkeys – instead they adopted the Jewish hatred of Babylon and Egypt, and all other “pagan idolaters”. Hence the whispers about Saturn and other “evil” aryan gods.
My two cents, anyway.
Concerning the equation Titans = Persians = Jews, notice the self-evident identity
Persian (Pharsi) = Pharisee.
The three wise men of ineradicable Yuletide tradition are widely acknowledged to have been Zoroastrian priests.
What say you about the tunnels under the NYC synagogue which were full of evidence of child torture and who knows what else?
From blood-stained child-size mattresses to toddler high-chairs and other children’s items which were in plain sight, all of the evidence was destroyed as the tunnels were “filled in” by NYC authorities.
If not for the judaic child torture and sacrifice aspects, observing jews crawling out from under NYC streets, scurrying and escaping like rats would make for excellent comedy.
Thank you so much for posting this! I have wondered for many years how today’s various Jewish groups, including Judaism sects (not just the Khazars or Ashkenazim…Ashkenaz being grandson of Japheth, not Shem), came to be, and why they seem to be so anti-Christ. I’ve also wondered why Palestinians (according to Israeli geneticists Eran Elhaik and others) have much more Semitic/Israelite DNA in them than many Jewish groups. Finally, thanks for explaining the origin of “the star of David” (aka star of Remphan in Acts 7:43). I wonder if the local church I attend with its cemetery that features on its gate the “star of David” (aka star of Remphan) can be convinced to remove this “star” (for the pastor who founded the church/cemetery had no clue to the “star of David” origins. As to this “star” on the Israeli flag (and did the Zionist founders put this “star” on the flag for evil purposes?), no wonder Israel is not “blessed” (Netanyahu aka Satan-yahu, BenGvir and Smotrich and more ruling Israel), but CURSED! No wonder they wan to build the “third temple” for the anti-Christ…..
Sad part of that story is his daughter could have been redeemed in another way. Ignorance was unfortunately the way it was during the days of the judges. They knew enough that swearing an oath had to be fulfilled. What he did was in haste as it usually is with the human race and our mouths fulfilling what is written about the tongue in the New Testament. We speak before thinking it through.
He could have saved the daughter. Sob
As for human sacrifice do you think that maybe in a thousands years from now an essay like the one from Pierre Simon about animal sex in 1930’s Berlin would be mocked and laughed at as BS like our bibles are today?
The parallels of the tales of Jonah and St. Paul are very obvious.
OTOH, the ‘Khazar’ idea was mainly popularised by Koestler, very much a Jewish writer, heavily promoted by his fellow Jews since whenever.
Darkness at Noon is best interpreted as a lame whine against the slow disempowerment of the Bolshevik Jews, rather than an anti-communist work as such.
Just consider the title, the Sun of Jewish rule coming under eclipse by a rising of the ruled against them.
Zero archaeological or written evidence exists of magnificent kingdoms run by David, Saul, or Solomon.
Sure, some of the tales are very amusing, ripping yarns, not nice. but despite decades of effort by jewish archaeologists in ‘Israel’, no written or physical evidence exists for any of it, except in the Tanakh tales and the Septuagint, which is half a millenium earlier. Words are changed from the latter to former, too.
I once met a seminary drop-out, far better than me at reading Latin and ancient Greek than I will ever be, he had several interesting ideas, but the most interesting in this context was his theory that Solomon was simply invented from Solon of Athens post-Alexandros.
I still find the idea convincing, not 100%, but close to that.
I would definitely say that Jerusalem was flyover. Guys that checked out of the maritime life.
Just read Jonah.
There was an effort to stamp out human sacrifice by the writer of the book of Jonah.
Jonah travelled all the way to Tarshish (or tried to) and was rebounded back into Ninevah watching to see the city get burned, after he had been made to walk the plank.
Tarshish could be North Africa or Spain.
With respect, delving into unknowable ancient history is entertaining, but futile for any practical purpose today. Especially if it serves to perpetuate old grievances to cash in for profiting on induced guilt in modern times, the sins of the ancient dead visited upon the living.
I assume the ships of Tyre were from the same forests as temple roof construction. Jonah free rides on Phoenician ships and the sailors pitch him in the water to get God off their collective backs.
This article goes allover the place. Hell, it doesn’t even give me an opportunity to pin down and send the Zionist to hell.
LAWRENCE ERICKSON please learn about paragraphs.
Will the real Israelites please stand up?
Jokes aside, we can use the Dodecad K12 data to estimate distances between populations (just compute the euclidian distance between the data points).
I did this, computing the distance various populations had to the Iron Age Israel sample.
For reference, the distance between two different Ashkenazi data sets ist 3,3 in the dimensionless units used.
Distance from Iron Age Israel:
Ashkenazi set 1 —- 401,4
Ashkenazi set 2 —- 394,9
Sephardic_Jews — 243,5
Azerbaijan_Jews — 282,5
Georgia_Jews —— 260,4
Iranian_Jews —— 248,1
Iraq_Jews ———- 175,2
Lebanese ———— 46,1
Palestinian ——— 147,5
Uzbekistan_Jews – 275,2
Surrounding populations:
Egyptans ———— 471,3
Jordanians ———- 116,6
Syrians ————– 132,9
Turkish_D ———- 314,6
Kurd_D ————- 667,5
Iranians ————- 801,7
Saudis ————– 2854,4
References for high distance:
Bnei_Menashe_Jews —– 2516,9
English_D —————– 4829,8
Test African ————– 12735,6
And the winner is … modern Lebanese people.
So far from modern Jews being the descendants of ancient Phoenicians, we might argue that it is the other way around, as modern Lebanese people are the extant population that is, by far, the closest to the ancient Israelites.
It also looks like a third of the Mid-East is more closely related to the ancient Israelites than the Ashkenazi are oh well …
No serious modern NT scholar believes that any of the four gospels (especially their canonical versions) was written before 70 CE lol. Mark is widely understood to be the first gospel and it “prophesies” the destruction of the Temple, giving us an indication that it was written AFTER the destruction of the Temple.
Unless you believe prophecies are real, that is.
According to the Gospel of John John 6:63
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
We know from Christ’s Revelation 2:9
“ and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”
We know them by the works they do, they are not the children of Abraham.
The Word of The Lord never fails.
They called him ‘a son of God ‘but they never said that they were . Socrates they betrayed and killed . But the other ‘Real One’ , but he was a Legend not a Myth . Apollonius of Tyana. He died when he chose to . Both were Greek . Pathos Ethos Logos .
Don’t blame the Carths or Phoes. There‘s no complete old and new testament before the printing press is invented and there is no christendom, islam or judaism based on a generally accepted canon or unified practice before that. Both the books are put together during the early and mid 1400s (following the generally accepted time frame) most likely in the regions of todays South West Germany, Switzerland and Northern Italy. Judaism develops as an exclusive school for members of certain industries like trading, lending etc that spreads along trading and shipping roads: shipping route to Constantinople, Near East, land route to Central and Eastern Europe. It is not before the late 1600s, early 1700s that hebrew can be established as a written language and still during the mid 1800s there are no more than a few 100 preachers that are able to speak hebrew North of the Alps and along the Danube rivers. The whole Israel thing is a late adoption of good old 1800s nationalism with everything we see today (language, cult, mythology). Get over it.
In another of my comments, I added Taoff’s further proof that “blood libel” or “Blood Passover” was a dark myth. Below follows a quote of that comment:
“In the Simon of Trent case, the accused Jews’ confessions were obtained by torture and other means that rendered their confessions invalid. See Ariel Toaff, BLOOD PASSOVER at, e.g., p.79 [emphasis mine]:
In the BLOOD PASSOVER Preface supplied by the two rabid anti-Semitic original translators, Gian Marco Lucchese and Pietro Gianetti, this appears, on pp.10-11 [emphasis mine]:
But Toaff does not merely “allege” that the Judges used force and violence to collect the Jews’ confessions. Toaff states expressly that the confessions were obtained by torture. [See above-quoted passage of BLOOD PASSOVER p.79.] And Toaff observes that one important judge/accuser/punisher was rabidly, even murderously, anti-Semitic:
Ariel Toaff, BLOOD PASSOVER at pp.80-81. [“Simonino” is “Little Simon” in the Venetian dialect of the 15th & 16th centuries. “Little Simon” references “Little Simon of Trent.” See BLOOD PASSOVER at p.79 (quoted supra).]“
Quoted from my comment posted here: https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/apocalypse-now-2/?showcomments#comment-4175108 [In the preceding quote of that comment, I corrected misspellings of the name Toaff.]
They, the modern jews, Pharisaic Talmudists, are theologically severed as per denial of the true Messiah, that is Jesus Christ, as you correctly state.
But upon that, they are not by any great measure, biological descendandts of Abraham.
Not that it matters, because as Jesus said: I can make these stones descendants of Abraham.
As for H G Wells, I would take that theory with a grain of salt.
You do know, writing here, he is one major archtect of The NWO, don’t you?
Shekhinah wasn’t dropped at all. She remains the feminine aspect of the Jewish god, towards which people at Jerusalem’s Western Wall are thrusting their hips in an act of copulation.
Titans = Persians = Jews. That is rabid nonsense.
Pharsi) = Pharisee, that is worth a thought, especially considering that their politico-religious opponents, Sadducees were the hellenised people there at the time.
Though superficial similarity of words isn’t proof, that parallel is very interesting, so thank you, hadn’t noticed before.
Jewish formula, ‘Hear 0 Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one’, or it could mean the Muslim call to prayer which goes as ” god is great, god is one” which are basically one and the same.
After Paganism this was so refreshing to the folks they had to obey just one god that they all scrambled to Judaism.
Christianity and 4 or 5 centuries later, Islam offered similar formula and many flocked to it.
Abrahamic religions are idiotic. And I include all three when I say this.
The lord is a shoving leopard
Not just the same forest, but the same species of tree. The cedar appears on the flag of Lebanon in tribute to the country’s Phoenician roots. Like Psalm 103/104, “The trees of the Lord are full of sap, the cedars of Lebanon which He hath planted, where the birds make their nests; the stork has her home in the fir trees.”
Let me shock you.
Even the Greeks had human sacrifices.
It might be worth stating the obvious here, to prove the point. I’m not sure I’ve seen it so explicitly stated as I am about to.
Think about the Romans and Greeks, they were Europeans. Now think about the people the other side of the Mediterranean Sea (and also partly north of it at the time of the Phoenicians in Spain), they were Semites, aka ARABS; all of them! They were not yet Muslims, even though they might well have looked like that.
The key is to know that they were Arabs, but not yet Muslims.
The Semitic religion(s), united by the Semitic (Arabic) language were probably then all much of a shifting muchness of similarity. Like Islam and Judaism is almost the same thing, really, even today. So it is quite likely that the claim of this essay is correct, i.e. they were all just a bunch of raghead sandniggers anyway, and with a similar suggestibility to a similar set of superstitions.
And further, it could also possibly be claimed that far from converting to Judaism, the Phoenicians might have been the original ‘Jews’ all along; from the outset.
Intriguing idea! I must admit, I’ve heard that one before, but it would definitely be worth investigating further. Solon happened to be a direct ancestor — either a grand father or a great-grand father — of Plato. It was Solon, according to Plato, who was ostracized from Athens by his enemies for 10 years, and went and lived in ancient Egypt. It was there that he learned of Atlantis, and how the Athenians had supposedly once defeated the Altanteans, from the Egyptian priests.
(1)
Your comment’s content is irrelevant to my comment #32 to which your comment purports to reply. Even if your comment’s content reported truth, it would not pertain to events that occurred in medieval Italy.
(2)
You do not adduce proof of your comment’s assertions (which you present with intorted syntax and unscholarly adjectives yellow-journalism imagery).
* [PreviouslyI have found your comments not infrequently unworthy of credit — bearing false assertions, fallacies, self-impeaching exaggerations. So, since your current comment lacks proof, I presume it does not merit credit. And I recall having deconstructed your comments a few times earlier. But, as appears below, right now I cannot afford to spend time on tangling with your lurid allegations.] *
(3)
I recall having encountered such assertions voiced elsewhere online within perhaps the past year. I recall also having seen disproofs of those assertions. At the time I did not have cause of keeping records. So, I should need to do considerable research to collect the assertions and disproofs.
For the past several months, I have been engaged in a large, and intellectually exhausting, legal project that, likely, will consume much of my time for another month or two. So, I cannot undertake now to research the alleged child-torture occurring under a NYC synagogue. But if I happen upon, or recall, sources of past allegations and disproofs, I shall post an appropriate comment.
Deuteronomy is part of what Christ refered to!
It is the true Word of God.
The scandal is Herod Netanyahus use of it!
God did not order destruction of peaceful Palestinians!
Moses and the Law are done away with!
If some crazy Americans toe to the Synagogue of satan, under pretense christian name, that doesn’t make the Word of God untrue!
Beware of the leaven of the Pharisées!
https://www.unz.com/runz/prof-john-beaty-and-the-true-origin-of-the-jews/
The hexagram can be taken to embody (graphically) the 666 of the ‘Beast’: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/300474606371998076/
Please note, however, that it was NEVER regarded as an official symbol of Judaism until the 18th century, when it was first popularized by yeshivas sponsored by the Rothschild family, who also one day, of course, sponsor Zionism.
H.G. Wells only briefly mentioned the theory, most of the evidence was put forward by Unz. You don’t have to be a fan of H.G. Wells as a person to evaluate that evidence.
https://eupedia.com/genetics/genomic_analysis_ancient_europeans.shtml#Iron_Age
Am I right in reading this n=6 for Iron Age Israel as meaning 6 samples to represent the 7 centuries between 1200 BCE and the fall of the first temple in 500 BCE?
In this context, certainly the Lebanese sample suggests more continuity and less mobility in that population compared with the present inhabitants of the state to their south.
I note that Mr. Unz has employed his tactic of hiding embarrassing content by stuffing that content under a [MORE] button.
Thanks. Seems we have an issue of ‘Jews’ coming from ‘somewhere’ not Israel, but we are not sure where yet. It was maybe the interesting Ashraf Ezzat who suggested that place-name history suggests the ‘Jews’ were a tribe of bandits from somewhere in Arabia, maybe around Yemen.
(Ezzat notably summarised the Abrahamic cults of Judaism-Christianity-Islam as being the creation of desert people who were ‘belligerent, extremist and of low culture’, hence barbaric horrors like ‘eternal hell’.)
Important for all to understand, the ‘Old Testament’ is a fraud, no ‘ancient Hebrew’ ever found, the earliest edition is the Greek Septuagint from 300s BCE, allegedly a ‘translation’ but in fact Jews fabricating a story making themselves sound important.
Another origin issue too here, is that Abrahamic Jew-based cults link to even older cults of the tragic, oppressive ‘my way the only way’ monotheism idea, specifically Zoroastrianism, possibly fabricated by Jews in Persia, and which Christianity heavily cribbed (see Revilo Oliver on this) … this before the Jews thought of their immensely clever ‘chosen people’ angle for later goyim religions they sponsored, like Christianity and Islam (See Jew Marcus Eli Ravage boasting of Jews inventing Christianity, and re Islam as a Jewish fabrication, see Crone / Cook on ‘Hagarism’.)
And then even earlier with perhaps the ‘original’ monotheism notion in ancient Egypt, linked to Akhenaten, circa 1300s BCE, and this perhaps the ‘inspiration’ of a group of Semites in Egypt called the Hyskos, said to have ruled through a series of kings but who then were expelled from Egypt after a revolt … the Hyskos from long ago till today, still considered by some to be the early group of the eventual ‘Jews’.
https://www.unz.com/runz/prof-john-beaty-and-the-true-origin-of-the-jews/?showcomments#comment-6388384
This theory blows the Khazar bullshit out of the water. Jews are known for curly hair and huge noses. Khazars were supposedly Turkic Central Asians…..do Kazakhs Krgyz or Uzbeks have such hair and noses or do they look like the Mongol horde? On the other hand Phoenicians were known for such hair and funny looking noses.
Whence did they arise? ‘Monsters from the Id’, I’d say. There’s a little bit of Jew in all of us.
They settled all over Europe. Pure bullshit. Why do you dolts waste your time arguing about a bunch of sand-niggers from asia minor?
Breaking news: The International Criminal Court’s chief prosecutor had filed a formal request that the court issue warrants for the arrest of Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Yoav Gallant.
The charges are war crimes and crimes against humanity
■ Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;
■ causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health contrary to article 8(2)(a)(iii), or cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
■ killing contrary to article 8(2)(a)(i), or Murder as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
■ Intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population as a war crime contrary to articles 8(2)(b)(i), or 8(2)(e)(i);
■ Extermination and/or murder contrary to articles 7(1)(b) and 7(1)(a), including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity;
■ Persecution as a crime against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(h);
■ Other inhumane acts as crimes against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(k).
Alas, the prosecutor had filed also a formal request that the court issue warrants for the arrest of Hamas officials.
The prosecutor announced the filings in a CNN interview, https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/20/middleeast/icc-israel-hamas-arrest-warrant-war-crimes-intl/index.html
Who says genetic testing proves anything at all? Is it more reliable than phrenology?
The idea is for example, why in the Kitos War was there a massive Jewish colony on Cyprus. Enough to massacre Greeks there. Enough for Roman legions to have to go there to get the Jews off the island. Cyprus had a lot of Tyreans and Carthaginians on it too.
Here are a fairly good reportings of the charges the prosecutor charged against Netanyahu and Gallant:
■ https://consortiumnews.com/2024/05/20/icc-seeks-arrest-warrants-for-netanyahu-gallant/
■ https://news.antiwar.com/2024/05/20/icc-seeks-arrest-warrants-for-israeli-and-hamas-leaders/
And even if Joe Frauden did see such a thing occur, it’s highly unlikely he’d long remember it anyway.
Thank you.
That ex-seminarian had many other interesting ideas, including that mass-conversion of Epicurean groups as the main factor in rapid spread of early Christian groups around the Medit. basin, he backed up his arguments very well, including with the strange addressee lists in the epistles alleged to be by St. Paul. Those addressee lists are omitted in many recent translations, there is a term for them, easy to look up, but I forget it right now.
Even compliant scholars now admit that two or three of what were traditionally seen as ‘Pauline Episcles’ had a different writer.
I did try to contact my scholar friend by letters later, but never a reply.
As for Platon, it is great to read of his thoughts and to see someone else who does. The off-handed comment on Atlantis would seem most likely to refer to Minoan Crete, but perhaps to something much further west (Dogger Banks?), one can never surely know.
If the entry price is to kill Palestinians, die.
5ds
Chink bastards are eating chicken with broccoli and seemingly minding their own business with this TIKTOK internet site, when along came a Mormon Muthaphucka named after a rat called Willard — who thinks ill of Carlson, Tucker — and this rodent politician Mitt sits down besides Baby Boomer Jew Blinken and lets loose with some truth about why the rancid treasonous puppet whores in the US Congress banned the TIKTOKers.
Willard Rat Puke Romney sold his soul to Satan for a full head of hair but Romney was not being brainwashed like his father when he admitted quite candidly that protecting the genocidal rabid raccoon entity called Israel was the main reason to go after the Chinks and take away their TikTok.
JEWS ORGANIZED GLOBALLY(JOG) told the coward politician puppet skanks like Mitt Romney to censor and destroy the ability of young people to get alternative viewpoints on the rancid doings of demonic Israel by banning and attacking the innocent little lamb Chinks from providing even a glimmer of truth and electronic auditory and visual witness to the genocide being conducting by the butchers in Israel.
JEWS ORGANIZED GLOBALLY(JOG) also wants to drag the US military into multiple wars, including a war with Iran, and if the young people, and people of any age, are allowed to use electronic devices to see reproductions of the horrors being done by Israel then the appetite for war against Iran will dissipate rapidly.
McCain background too.
“But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
Are not the least among the rulers of Judah;
For out of you shall come a Ruler
Who will shepherd My people Israel.” (Matthew 2:6; cf. Micah 5:2; John 7:42)
John 8:44
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
Your theory fails on the ground that even though there was inevitably some miscegenation between the Punic settlers and the native North Africans, that miscegenation must have been limited since at the time of the fall of Carthage, the Punic settlers and the native North Africans remained quite distinct from each other. In fact, the Numidian natives were allies of Rome and played a vital role in the campaign that culminated with the destruction of Carthage.
The idea that the Jews “converted” the Carthaginians and that accounts for their weirdness would be much better explained by the Jews always having a presence in Phoenicia and its colonies. Recall that Jonah was on a ship to Tarshish, the Tartessian civilization.
What is so odd about the Israelites and Jews going to “the big city” Tyre (the same way they would go to Egypt and Babylon or anywhere else), especially given their racial and linguistic affinities?
The idea of hereditary Punic Depravity existing in Jews because Pharisees converted the Phoenicians sounds like another iteration of the Khazar theory.
Hiram of Tyre! He’s the Khazar you’re looking for!
. . . the people Moses LED out of Egypt . . .
It is apparent that you are lazy and are unable to do your own research.
The jewish synagogue tunnel scheme was exposed by israel supporters in order to “out” the chabad who are (supposedly) against the state of israel. Their fellow jews “outed” them. The jew-run NYC government filled in the tunnels and destroyed evidence of wrongdoing. Nothing new here…
Everything that I have stated has been thoroughly researched. If you want verification, you will have to do your own “legwork”.
I won’t do your research for you.
IDF soldier ELRON BISMUT … in the country illegally cracks heads at UCLA leaving a student with permanent brain damage
You see, I’m Chinese, and most of us are atheists.
We also had various religions in very ancient times, but now religion is mainly a mascot in the form of tourist attractions.
Our existence shows that people can live well without religion.
We have essentially incorporated religion into our culture.
So religion no longer needs to exist as a subject.
Wow. Some of you believe in Bible shit? And cite the Bible of all things? Wake up.
1. There is a fascinating book by Peter Mark Adams Game of Saturn in which he makes an elaborate argument that wealthy Renaissance Italy families worshiped Saturn.
His argument is based on an expensive tarot deck from 15 century Venice, the Sola Busci Tarochi. Deck includes depiction of infanticide which is akin to ritual sacrifice.
2. For the verse in Amos the Oxford Study Bible has Kaiwan, not Chiun, but says it’s Saturn.
Special Night Squad UCLA
You should choose the third way.
I am Chinese.
We are atheists in the absolute sense.
But neither did we choose to plunder the world in disorder, as the Christian world and the Jewish did.
The arrival of Jews in our country will only result in the extermination of the Jews in Kaifeng, as advocated by the Western media, in fact, they were basically exterminated.
In fact, all those who learn the Chinese language will eventually and irreversibly become Chinese. It’s just that foreigners often find Chinese too difficult…
Once you have mastered Chinese, you can use it much more easily than English.
The better explanation is that the core aristocracy was more or less the same folks as between Cadiz, Carthage, Tyre and Jerusalem. It does explain the Kitos War casualties in Cyprus and Cyrenaica to some extent.
The Carthaginians were carriers of Jews.
Yes, so my suggestion is, outright repudiation of monotheistic cultures including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
Because Rome is the foundation of European culture.
Without Roman leaders to promote Christianity, Jesus was a failed liar.
Rome practically conquered Europe. To identify with Roman culture is to identify with a civilization that embraces Europe.
You can take Roman culture as a foundation and embrace Christianity.
Moreover, religions are still able to defraud vast amounts of property in the name of God, which is itself problematic.
Still, you present no proof. And, since YOU asserted the existence of the alleged blood evidence that YOU allege was found under a NYC synagogue, YOU bear the burden of proof. I have no responsibility either of proving your assertion is truth or of proving it false.
You insult yourself, not me, by publishing a lurid and potentially dangerous assertion without supporting it with PROOF. And, PROOF is NOT either an alt right rag’s or the New York Time’s bare assertion or an evidence-free “report” of an assertion of some “official” or purportedly “knowledgeable” person who is, actually, a hack of some neocon, paleoconservative, neoliberal, progressive, or anti-Jew cause. Proof is valid, reliable, evidence sufficient to convince a fair-sized body of disinterested, honorable, intelligent individuals.
Since you do not comprehend that your earlier comment was irrelevant to the matter of whether the blood libel or blood Passover actually occurred, I expect you do not comprehend PROOF. Like too many Unz Review commenters, you blather whatever is consistent with your political taste or your biases — NOT legitimate, creditable factual matter properly probative of a worthy point.
If, actually, blood was found where you asserted and on the object(s) you named, then three vital questions beg answers: (a) Whose blood? (b) Did the blood deposit because of an assault (the term “assault” meaning, here, all of what it can mean)? (c) If assault explains the blood’s presence, how many assailants at how many times?
You have a mind barely better than a child’s. And like a child, you lack intellectual discipline and integrity.
Sabbatai Zevi the 17th century Jewish messiah. The Phoenecians means the Venetians, who dominated European politics for many generations and who created both the Dutch and the British Thalassocracies. “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:” 2 Thessalonians 2:11. Much of the strong delusion centers on falsely long time periods and geography. Why do many events in the Torah have exact duplicates in 13th century Europe? Why do Abraham and Isaac the Blind have exact duplicates in important Kabbalists? Just coincidence, of course. Why did 100% of “ancient” Roman and Greek works miraculously appear in Europe (almost all in Italy) during the Renaissance? What did the Greeks write on? How, for example, did the works of Plato and Aristotle survive for almost two thousand years before their serendipitous re-discovery in the Renaissance? We have learned all lies. The more education one has, the more lies one has absorbed.
That’s very true.
One of the weaknesses of Carthage against Rome appears to have been very limited Enthnoreligious “citizenship”. Romans always seemed to expand citizenship in their own day as a carrot. Even though the Legions brought the whip and colonies.
The city dwelling Peoni were distinct in their caste. Much like Jews. Hannibal couldn’t quite convert brilliant wins to conquest and occupation in mainland Italy.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. The majority of Israelis are middle eastern jews who look (you guessed it) middle eastern. You don’t even know basic information.
so Russia, Brooklyn, Ucrania, Germany, UK,,,are Middle Eastern countres???? Zionism/Torah promised land is a Religiuous FANTASY..
Your constant rudeness degrades your every comment. You be unaware, that no only does whomever you are addressing, read your comments, but so do a few thousand others read them as well. You come across as an arrogant know-it-all. As far as blathering — which you accuse “many Unz Review commenters” of doing — remember this, everyone has a piece of the truth, even you. Respecting others begins with respecting yourself.
No doubt most people dipping into Unz’s comment threads are seeking “creditable factual matter” and sometimes have opinions that fail to exhibit your depth of knowledge, true — except your failure is a lack of understanding. Knowledge can be couched in simple terms — as it should be — which you seldom do. You should understand though that you cannot give people understanding neither can you receive understanding.
That you insult others here suggests a lack of understanding. Your last two sentences, “You have a mind barely better than a child’s. And like a child, you lack intellectual discipline and integrity,” is no doubt a projection!
An interesting theory. I agree completely that the Palestinians of today are the direct descendents of the ancient Hebrews. This theory does not explain why Israel has banned genetic testing. The reason is obvious. The Ashkenazi have little to do with the ancient Hebrews. They are largely a Turkic and Asian people.
The leaders of Israel know very well that their “Jewish State” is built on lies. With the help of their media control, they have managed to bury the truth. Few Westerners know the truth.
Tracing your ancestral DNA is a popular activity throughout the world, companies offering home testing kits promise to uncover your geographic origins for a small fee. A Jewish TikToker took the test and found he had heritage in different parts of Europe, but in his results there was no trace of Levantine origins. A cool new thing to tell his friends about, however, he points out that if he was from Israel this test would be illegal. We delve into why Israel restricts tracing your ancestors DNA.
Israel’s DNA wars: Forbidden tests
GENETICS?!
“Genetic” studies show that the Chinese civilization was started by a tribe from Nigeria!
Believe it?
DNA is like a “virus”: Nobody ever could show it!
It takes some studying, but if one is really after the truth . . .
A first step would be searching for the work of a top-rate biologist, Harold Hillman.
And trying to understand the diffraction occurring in the X-ray analysis performed on tissues. The resultant pictures were interpreted as helical structures because the experience with crystallography of the analyst!
The ancient Hebrews were from the “Asian” continent themselves were they not? You white nationalists seem to have this blindspot in your worldview. If you look at their faces, do Ashkenazi look Asian? Since when do Asians have light-colored eyes with huge noses and slightly curly hair? Its obvious they are Arab-European mixed mutts but you keep calling them Turkic? Since when do Turkics have huge noses with curly hair? Turkics look Mongolian more than anything else. Stop trying to tie Jews with Asians when its obvious they have more in common with YOU (your precious so-called white race).
I doubt that that’s what happened. How does this bode with Yahweh’s priests having to threaten the population with Yahweh’s wrath if they worship other gods?
They had to fight with polytheism, I don’t think there was much that was voluntary there. See, for example, the history of christianization of Kievan Rus, it gives you an idea of how these religious conversions happen, voluntarily or not. Not to mention that Yahweh worship is not as fun as Dionysus worship, for example, why would folks want this Yahweh as the only god? 2 Kings 3 suggests he’s not even as strong as Chemosh/Kemosh (three armies of Yahweh get defeated by one army of Kemosh thanks to a well-timed human sacrifice).
Anyway, Deuteronomy 6 is basically a Yahwist version of the Nicene Creed, a statement of basic beliefs (with a ‘history’ lesson about how “we were Pharaoh’s slaves in Egypt, but Yahweh brought us out of there and promised us lots of goodies”). Both lay out the basics of who is god, what you should believe, and what you shouldn’t believe or do because it’s wrong, so as to lay out the correct version of religion and condemn “dangerous conspiracy theories” such as Arianism or worship of El, or Ba’al, or Asherah, or what have you.
Would you kindly elaborate the positive case for forgery?
This would seem to be contradicted by extensive emigration such as Chinese anchor babies in the US.
That’s true. For example, the Sassoon family who built Shanghai up from being an Asian shithole into a modern city never did learn Chinese since they had lots of Chinese servants to translate for them. As you must know, the Sassoon family that built Shanghai were Jews. They made their money by selling opium to Chinese people who didn’t have enough self-control to resist. It’s the addictive personality, you know, which also accounts for the extensive gambling and smoking. Chinese would probably be drunks too, except they can’t hold their liquor.
The idea that Chinese lack religion is also true, but not in the way you suggest. Rather, their obsession with worldly gain makes them obsessed with superstitions that are supposed to bring “luck” while leaving them insensitive to questions about the origins, purpose, and good of man.
lve seen those studies previously, very interesting. l trust my lying eyes – l have met plenty of jews with features that appear turkic. where in northern europe were all these supposedly european ashkenazi jews hiding in say 1200 ad – they were late arrivals in germany etc.
theyve been taking european women for literally 2000 years – jews ran the slave trade in roman times and have been involved in that enterprise up until recent times. by some reports 50% of present day jewish women are of european stock. l have always assumed phoenecians were closely related/linked to jews.
theres good reason to think the hyksos were jews – academics wont say it, they are too afraid
Post your address oh brave one
I didn’t say it was hereditary, if by that you mean genetic. It’s more likely that they’ve held onto their pagan culture because they’ve so strongly resisted outside influence ever since their initial conversion, which primarily happened as a way to resist Roman domination. If you read Unz’s article on this topic, I think it’s clear that the evidence of Punic descent is far stronger than with the Khazar theory.
“Asian” isn’t synonymous with gook, slant-eye, mongoloid. That is why the very polite terms “Oriental” or “East Asian” are used, to distinguish caucasoid “western” or “southern” orientals from those of the Far East.
I’m sort of embarrassed to admit being familiar with the streamer “pokemane” – but many people have wondered if she is part East Asian.
To the Western eye, there are many people from North Africa, West Asia, and even some from Europe, who show traits that are suggestive the “Oriental.”
See how Edward G. Robinsons’ and Yul Brynner’s “Oriental” traits are played up in this classic film.
Video Link
Plenty of turks look jewy
Jews infiltration is present many places such as a virus which also doesn’t exist
It is the evil and amoral bullshit abundant in life lying beneath the surface of most everyone that must be crushed. Love is the only solution and this planet is a vibrational prison that we must ascend out of. By means of not egoically creating more slaves ie children that divide our one consciousness nor playing the idiotic 3d game of bullshit lies
Figure it out and merge back with the Infinite
Here’s an interesting discussion on this subject :
Video Link
THE JESUIT ORDER AS A SYNAGOGUE OF JEWS (ROBERT ALEKSANDER MARYKS, PHD) ///
BitChute
Matter of utmost importance, is the nullity of genealogy concerning the Pharisées.
We should abandon that altogether. It is all long since destroyed.
Importance is the spiritual teaching in a special group, resulting in the Gaza-genocide!
Surely yo disprove of that nazi-Herod-Netanyahu project?
This more tag is a really clever thing Ron has made.
because is helps to hide certain materials from scrapers!
So don’t be offended or confused if a more tag appears in a post.
Is the more tag capable of defeating AI?
Anyway, a post: people are confusing gene geneologies with population geneologies and genomics. Meaning that conclusions about the origins of Ashkenazis are of no use. The ncbi references above are of no value, they are propaganda.
You can’t solve a murder by looking at haplotypes or extended concepts similar to haplotypes.
You can’t solve a paternity suit by looking at haplotypes or extended concepts similar to haplotypes.
Perhaps, the Jews will bring upon the end of the “ Last stage of the Kali Yuga, when the Creator comes down to Earth..!?
I was at first skeptical about whether or not there was a forced conversion by the Maccabees, but this does absolutely appear to be the case that many were forcibly converted:
(From the Wikipedia on Forced Circumcision[1])
I think it goes to show two interesting things:
– Even Jewish people of the “right” geographic origin cannot be conceived of as being primarily of the Hebrews, a people we often think of as endogamous, closed off and sheltered from the world, and some true strain of ‘chosen people.’
– Jewish people before Christ were greatly struggling with national identity and just having ‘the numbers’ to occupy a place, so much so that they no longer cared for concepts like true descent from the right stock, or it is even perhaps the case that this was never something that they truly cared about as much as contemporary Jews care about it (which seems just as likely). The Jews themselves may have viewed descent as spiritual, not so much literal…
Which is also a very interesting conclusion to present because it makes great arguments for the Jews not necessarily having any special need for holding Jerusalem, and it affirms that there is not some inherent blood connection that legitimizes a lot of modern claims.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_circumcision
You misunderstood.
We pay attention to cultural identity, blood identity is not so important.
If a white man speaks Chinese, identifies with Chinese culture and marries a Chinese wife, then he is Chinese.
This is true even for Chinese emigrants.
In fact, in the past decade, the number of Chinese emigrants has been decreasing, while the number of immigrants from Japan and South Korea has been increasing.
As for the so-called Chinese “run people” along the US-Mexico border, most of them are criminals who have committed serious crimes and do not want to be caught by our country.
As for Sassoon.
Remember, Sassoon did not create Shanghai, but Sassoon made a lot of money through China.
This is a debt owed to the Chinese people, which will have to be repaid later.
In fact, if you look at the holdings of HSBC, you can see that we have tried to capture the Sassoon power to some extent.
The Phoenicians settled in Carthage, forming the bulk of the population from which Hannibal and the political-military establishment of Carthage emerged. The Phoenicians had significant genetic, social, political, and religious interactions with the Canaanites over centuries. All three groups worshipped Baal and engaged in the sacrifice of newborn males.
Jewish people were already living in Carthage at the time of its destruction. It is entirely possible that ideas and rituals were exchanged horizontally among them, which may have accelerated when a good number of Carthaginians converted to Judaism. The same was true for the Phoenicians.
Judaism borrowed heavily from Persian religion. This practice was not new; reincarnation, from Buddhism, also permeated certain Jewish strands.
It is highly possible that the practice of sacrifice was also emulated. In Jewish stories, we see resistance against the incorporation of Baal into its divine realm.
The struggle for exclusive monotheism did weaken the Jewish society and led to frequent regicides
.
Did Judaism reconcile by accomodating the new comer’s existing practices that included usuary and child sacrifice but with the caveats that the gentiles woukd be the victims?
This sounds pretty plausible.
Jonah would appear to be a funny little story about Jews traveling around the Med and Near East.
Such a small trace either way that claims of origin are super dubious.
European culture has much deeper roots than the Roman Empire is. It’s no wonder you don’t know that Romans were not ethnic, but a type of state organization. As for the Roman leaders who promoted Christianity, it’s a bit more complex. They first persecuted and even killed Christians (Emperors Decius, Probus, Diocletian), tolerated Christianity (Emperor Galerius), legalized it (Emperors Constantine and Licinius), later built the largest churches (Justinian). Perhaps you will be interested in the hidden or lesser-known fact that they were all Serbs.
This brings to mind Freud’s self-identification with (“Semitic”) Hannibal and his quest to get revenge on “Rome.”
Here’s a random link as starting point: https://www(dot)reddit(dot)com/r/PhoeniciaHistoryFacts/comments/jky2bk/hannibal_was_the_hero_of_sigmund_freud_founder_of/
I can understand the problems of European cultural reality.
The abandonment of religion is inevitable anyway. Otherwise, there will be many cases in which people will obtain a large amount of wealth in the name of religion and continue to cheat.
The way I propose is only a way in the absence of a way.
When you can’t unify culture and language, you have to find one that has historically unified Europe, or it will remain fragmentary, like the European Union.
As for the Ariel Toaff book Blood Passover, the link in question http://israelshamir.net/BLOODPASSOVER.pdf takes you to the 2016 version of the translation of the book from italian language. The first translation was done the same year as the original book was printed (ie 2007). However bare in mind that prof. Toaff was pressured by the jewish comunity to ammend his original work and as a result a 2008 second edition was printed and the 2007 version retracted from bookstores (and has today a very high price in second hand bookstores). This one being in alligment with the official jewish wersion of history. What I am saying is that the link takes you to the censured version of the book. As it is written on page 2 of the 2016 translation: ‘Revised. Please use this version. Last revision: August 1, 2016. Annuls and replaces all previous versions.’
Interesting point. This seems quite likely to have been another compromise by the Pharisees and other Jewish proselytizers to attract the Carthaginians. It’s easy to see how overemphasizing the common enemy idea eventually led to seeing all gentiles as subhuman.
Lol. Looks like the Jews already took at least one Chinese scalp.
Bruh –
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/05/travel/the-man-who-changed-the-face-of-shanghai-.html
https://sixthtone.com/news/1010830
https://blogs.bl.uk/untoldlives/2012/06/victor-sassoon-and-shanghai.html
I have two editions/revisions of Toaff’s Blood Passover. One is the edition/revision I referenced, quoted, and linked in my two earlier-year comments that I referenced and linking in this thread. The other is also a Lucchese and Gianetti translation of the 2007 edition revised by the original translators (Lucchese and Gianetti) in 2011. That latter version is not a 2016 edition or 2016 translation.
The translators (Lucchese and Gianetti) are (or were) rabidly anti-Jew. In their 2016 revised edition, they added a Foreword they wrote. In that Foreword, the two translators attacked, visiously, what they called Toaff’s recantation of what they assert was Toaff’s earlier version. The translators intimate, without proof, that the earlier edition was somehow (they do not show language-changes) less inclined to question accusations that Jews committed ritual murder of Christian boys whose blood the Jews used in celebrations of Passover.
One may expect that those two translators would have evidenced, somehow, their recantation assertion — their intimation that Toaff altered the text to “exonerate” Jews accused of ritual murder, etc., or to discredit the accusations.. But they did not.
The translators assert:
But the translators do not show concrete examples of such alterations: No cites of the earlier edition’s language changed on cited pages of the later edition. NO PROOF! Just snide, contemptuous anti-Jew insinuation.
The translators state:
The translators do not provide examples of filthy “Sephardic linen.” Perhaps in the work of Spinoza?????
In my earlier-year comments referenced and linked in this thread, I used the “2016 revised edition.” That edition bears the translators’ 2007 copyright. The 2007-edition/2011-revision bears the same 2007 copyright.
In my earlier-year comments referenced, quoted, and linked in this thread, I used an online copy of the 2016 revised edition for two reasons:
● (1) Unlike online copies of the 2007-edition/2011-revision, the 2016 revised edition online copy I used is searchable and copyable.
● (2) The 2016 revised edition’s online copy is the edition used and made available online by Israel Shamir (whom Unz Review long-time Unz Review readers know as a Russia-born, anti-Zionist/anti-Orthodox-Jew, ex-Jew who converted to Eastern Orthodox Christianity. I expected that Mr. Shamir would not have made that copy available online if he had cause of questioning its legitimacy.
I have compared
● (a) the “2016 revised edition” quotes and content-references I used in my earlier-year comments (referenced, quoted, and linked in those comments)
with
● (b) the text of the 2007-edition/2011-revision.
Also, I investigated whether other “2o16 revised edition” arguably-Jew-exonerating passages were present in the 2007-edition/2011-revision version. In every instance, the two versions were identical.
Now your comment, Vivante
You assert:
You do not put any proof that your assertion asserts truth.
What “pressure” was exerted on Toaff? By what “Jewish community”? When? Where? What form of pressure? Manifested in what context, venue? Where and how was is such pressure expressed, effected, recorded……? What particular amendments resulted from such Jewish community pressure? What is your PROOF?
Adduce valid, reliable evidence. Or retract your assertion.
Your assertion is suspect partly because it appears to reference a “2008 second edition.”
I have searched for a 2008 second edition. I did not find such edition.
You really need proof that Jewish organizations pressured a scholar who said that they ritually murdered Christian children?
Good article and it jogged my memory about some similar discussions I was having about a year ago on the issue of the group that the Covenant was with. The person I was having a debate with is pro-Zionist, pro-genocide etc.
The troubling verse they brought up was the following:
Deuteronomy 23:7-8 King James Version (KJV)
Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a stranger in his land. The children that are begotten of them shall enter into the congregation of the LORD in their third generation.
Now if memory serves me correctly the Edomites (Caananites who did a lot of race-mixing basically according to your article which is why the covenant was not with them amongst other reasons, according to what you show above) were the cousins of the Isralites and came down via Esau and the verse above was used as proof that The Lord established a covenant with these Caananites too; i.e. the 3rd generation and onwards would be part of the covenant that Lord had initially established with the Isralites (true jews).
I appreciate the biblical summary and to be honest this Carthaginian seems more probable than the Khazar theory you gave in the article but how does the verse above figure into the biblical information you gave in the article? Could these people that established Israel, by hook and by crook, be considered as jews or even Isralites from a biblical perspective also?
After I posted my first comment replying to your comment — my comment # 172, here, https://www.unz.com/article/religious-implications-of-the-carthaginian-theory/#comment-6578293 — I wondered: Did you read my comment # 94? That comment is here: https://www.unz.com/article/religious-implications-of-the-carthaginian-theory/#comment-6574964
It doesn’t matter.
You don’t understand Chinese women.
Our women’s obsession with money is in some ways far more extreme than that of the Jews.
We can see if the Jews will reverse assimilate into the Chinese.
Kaifeng Jews may be a good example, they have long forgotten the language and culture, and look no different from the Chinese.
A general “Jewish” tendency cannot prove an occurrence of a specific, discrete act of a particular Jew or group of Jews pursuing a particular discrete objective.
Very few empirical generalizations can prove specific, discrete, actual events. And very few empirical generalizations can prove or tend to prove specific, discrete, actual events of significance.
● (a) Mammals are aerobic.
[[[[[[ Side-Note: Some creatures are, or have been, not aerobic, i.e., anaerobic. See, e.g., this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2859860/ End Side-Note.]]]]]]
● (b) You, Lawrence Erickson, are a mammal.
● (c) Therefore, you are aerobic.
● (d) Hence, you have breathed.
That reasoning is an instance of empirically/logically sound proof from generalization to particular fact. But that proof is insignificant.
The generalization “Mammals are aerobic” cannot prove either (i) that you will breath at 14:27:02.619 hours, 21 June 2024, or (ii) that you breathed at 15:42:07.348 hours, 12 February 2023.
Now the matter of the probative value of a generalization that some or many Jews pressure individuals to state pro-Jewish opinions or to retract anti-Jewish opinions:
Just as such generalization cannot prove that some medieval Jews committed ritual murder of Christian boys and used the boys’ blood to make matzoh balls for Passover, such generalization cannot prove that a Jewish organization pressured Toaff to retract from his book “Blood Passover” as statement or statements consistent with an assertion that some medieval Jews committed ritual murder of Christian boys and used the boys’ blood to make matzoh balls for Passover.
Such assertions beg PROOF — valid, reliable evidence sufficient to convince a proper judicial tribunal or, at least, a fair-size body of dispassionate, unbiased, honorable, intelligent individuals. So, your comment’s “argument” is shit.
But your comment’s “argument” is even worse — like toxin-infested shit. Your argument ASSUMES — WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE — that in/with the first printing of the first and unrevised edition his book “Blood Passover,” Toaff presented clear and unrebutted evidence that some medieval Jews committed ritual murder of Christian boys and used the boys’ blood to make matzoh balls for Passover — or even just committed ritual murder of Christian boys.
Toaff’s book does observe “evidence” (like torture-induced “confessions”) that a medieval Jew or medieval Jews committed ritual murder, etc. But also Toaff’s book rebuts that evidence, compellingly — as I showed in my comments ## 32 and 172 (the former by linking one of my years-earlier comments).
Many Jews and some Jewish organizations oppose Zionism and the genocidal conduct of Israel. See, e.g.,
■ https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/gaza-massacre-condemned-by-survivors-and-descendants-of-survivors-of-the-holocaust/
■ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G12Z0td-Nqo
Video Link
■ https://thegrayzone.com/2024/03/15/genocide-democrats-max-blumenthal-wndc/
■ https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/from-albert-einstein-to-noam-chomsky-famous-jews-who-have-opposed-israel/
Your bias is blind to all but itself. Hence it is blind to the manifest position of the Jewish organizations and individual Jews who inveigh against Zionism and Israel’s genocidal treatment of Palestinians. Your “proofs” prove naught but your stupid bias.
Since you do not present valid, reliable PROOF of your anti-Jew assertions and, apparently, think such proper proof is unnecessary, you are a rabid political hack, and untrustworthy.
I am a vocal, active, opponent of Zionism, Israel (even Israel’s existence), and Jews who adhere, even if just subliminally, to the Talmud, Mishnah, Kabbala, and Tanakh — those evil Jewish supremacy texts. But if you utter an anti-Jew assertion, I demand you prove your assertion WITH SUFFICIENT, VALID, RELIABLE EVIDENCE. Otherwise, your assertion can abet Zionism and Jewish supremacism.
Do not bother me again. Or, perhaps your prefer this: fuck off asshole.
I intended my comment # 1777 (https://www.unz.com/article/religious-implications-of-the-carthaginian-theory/#comment-6578586%5D to reply to Lawrence Erickson’s comment # 173, https://www.unz.com/article/religious-implications-of-the-carthaginian-theory/#comment-6578383
I apologize for the unclarity.
Correction of my comment # 178, https://www.unz.com/article/religious-implications-of-the-carthaginian-theory/#comment-6578615
My comment 178’s text ought to be this:
Now I apologize not only for the unclarity that my comment # 178 observed and regretted. I apologize also for my fingers’ being spastic.
The Carthaginian theory would explain two things. Firstly, why there were such large populations of Jews outside Palestine in the first and second centuries AD. And secondly, why these “Jews” had such a profound hatred of the Romans.
The Jews are recorded as having fought the Romans in Libya, Egypt and Cyprus. In Libya and Cyprus, they are recorded as having carried out huge massacres of Gentiles in the most sadistic ways.
There is absolutely no reason to read or comment with this absolute HG Wells nullity ofta writer.
Aside from the egregious errors pointed out by commenter Loup-Bouc and other (by the author’s own admission) outlandish claims, I found this article interesting. I had previously enjoyed Ron Unz’s own article on the Jewish origin issue, but did not enjoy as much Unz’s article about the Jewish religion. This article connects the contents of those two articles by Unz in a mostly plausible manner, shedding light on both of them.
Thank you, that was the primary purpose of this article. I am operating on the assumption that the content is true in both of those articles by Unz, my purpose was not to convince anyone that they’re true. I’m certainly not an expert on Prof. Toaff, but if there’s a choice between Unz’s analysis of Toaff’s work and the unhinged ranting of Loup-Bouc, an anonymous commenter on his site, I’m going with Unz’s analysis.
That’s an interesting verse, and an interesting discussion to have. The verse seems to be making an exception specifically for the Edomites and Egyptians. The exception doesn’t apply to all Canaanites, as Deuteronomy 23:3 states that Moabites and Ammonites are not allowed. So I think it’s clear that the person you were arguing with was incorrect if they were saying that all Canaanites were included in the covenant because of the Edomite exception. Along with that, the Edomites were to the south of Israel, whereas the Phoenicians were to the north. I don’t see how modern Jews, if descended from Phoenicians, could claim that they have a connection with the Edomites.
Jewish migration to China has historically been infinitesimal compared to the West. You haven’t resisted their influence, you were just too far away for them, and phenotypically distinct enough that they couldn’t blend in. However, the fact that the Sassoon’s bullied your people in one of the few major Jewish-Chinese interactions does not bode well for your nation if they ever start coming in larger numbers.
“Unhinged” is an adjective that fits you — for your intransigent belief that evidence-free, blood libel accusation constitutes legitimate scholarship and proper journalism — despite the accusation is refuted by Toaff’s compelling, punctilious scholarship (his book, “Blood Passover”).
Why did you not thank Brás Cubas for his below-quoted dependent clause?
You called me “unhinged” without acknowledging Brás Cubas’s observations that I “pointed out” your “egregious errors.”
What rational significance resides in my being “an anonymous commenter”?
Why are hard logic, proof-demands, and compelling deconstructions “rantings”?
Why do you not try to answer my comment # 177 (https://www.unz.com/article/religious-implications-of-the-carthaginian-theory/#comment-6578586 ]?
.
You cannot grasp your stupid error: By asserting without compelling PROOF that the “blood libel” is truth and by adopting an assertion that a Jewish organization induced Toaff to convert truth to lies in his book, you gift Zionists and Orthodox Jews two premises of trashing whatever legitimate observations your article may bear, and, tortiously, you defame Toaff, an excellent and courageous scholar.
You are disgusting, contemnible.
As I already explained in the comment you’re replying to, I’m not an expert on Toaff’s work, and proving Unz’s analysis of it was not the point of my article, so I see no reason to argue with you about it. I read Unz’s analysis on Toaff’s work and found it very convincing. He’s clearly very intelligent and level-headed, and I’ve found his analyses to be highly accurate in areas that I am familiar with. Meanwhile, I have no idea who you are, and the many lengthy rants that you’ve posted have been chalked full of petty insults and cusswords. So until I research the topic myself, I feel pretty confident that he is right, and you are wrong.
For anyone interested, this article by Bernard M. Smith clearly documents the pressure that Toaff faced and the fact that he edited the book in response, with links to news articles from the time:
https://www.unz.com/article/review-of-passovers-of-blood-by-ariel-toaff/
I thought the fact that there was pressure was pretty self-evident, and I only responded to you initially because I thought it was funny that you would act incredulous when told that Toaff was pressured by the Jewish community. If you’re still angry about this, I suggest you take up the issue with Unz, Bernard Smith, or someone else who has defended the theory in detail. I don’t intend to engage with you further on this topic, but I will pray that you find inner peace.
Be a coward, if you must: do not reply.
Your new “proof” is an article — Bernard M. Smith, Review of “Passovers of Blood” by Ariel Toaff (JUNE 12, 2023) — that asserts, but presents zero PROOF, that Toaff cut blood libel proof from his initial “Blood Passover” draft to conform his work to the demand of Jews who condemned his proving blood libel (if he did). In that respect, Smith’s article is like yours — a reflection of rabid Jew-hatred, not scholarship or journalism.
Understand this clearly (though I doubt you can): This comment’s first paragraph does not assert;
● (a) that Jews are incapable of doing what the blood libel myth suggests
● (b) that no medieval European Jew murdered a Christian boy and used the boy’s blood to make Passover matzos
● (c) that Toaff did not alter the original manuscript of his Blood Passover book or the initial draft of the 2007 edition (which was revised in 2011) because of extortive pressure leveled by Jews angered by Toaff’s proving (if he did) that the blood libel was actual fact.
This comment’s first paragraph observes ONLY that Smith’s article bears zero PROOF that Toaff cut blood libel proof from is initial “Blood Passover” draft or his initial version of the 2007 edition to conform his work to demands of Jews who condemned his proving blood libel. In that respect, Smith’s article is like yours — a reflection of rabid Jew-hatred, not scholarship or journalism.
Smith’s article is specially condemnable because of this language:
[Emphasis & capitalization mine, Loup-Bouc.]
Smith’s article does not demonstrate a “pathetic retraction” the only legitimate way — by comparing Toaff’s original manuscript or his book’s original, 2007 edition with the 2016 revised edition and finding at least one instance of Toaff’s having deleted, altered, or supplemented his original manuscript’s or initial 2007 edition’s text to extinguish the original manuscript’s indications (if any) that the blood libel was actual fact.
In my comment # 172 (https://www.unz.com/article/religious-implications-of-the-carthaginian-theory/#comment-6578293 ], I wrote, inter alia, this:
After I re-read Smith’s article (because you cited it as proof), I did a further comparison of the same kind. I found no instance of Toaff’s having changed anything so that the 2016 revised edition failed to bear unrebutted blood-libel-proving evidence that was present in the 2007 edition revised in 2011. My language “unrebutted blood-libel-proving evidence”? I use that language as I did in my comment #`177 (https://www.unz.com/article/religious-implications-of-the-carthaginian-theory/#comment-6578586 ]:
Smith’s article includes also this toxic dross:
That language proves only this:
● (a) Smith read Toaff’s book with a mind (i) pre-convinced that the blood libel is truth and (ii) compelled to to find “corroboration” in Toaff’s book.
● (b) Smith presumed, magically (as if with a mind-reading device), to “see” into Toaff’s brain and “discover” that Toaff was convincing himself that the “unimaginable” had occurred — that medieval European Jews had practiced ritual murder of Christian boys and used the boys’ blood to make Passover matzos. [Smith achieved a feat that the best-ever psychoanalyst or hypnotist could not achieve merely by reading a patient’s or hypnosis-subject’s book.]
The clear fact is this: Nowhere does Toaff’s book — either edition — prove blood libel. Rather, in both editions — 2007, revised 2011 & 2016 revised edition — Toaff’s book disproves blood libel.
Eventually, your, and other like, horse shit will pile up so heavily that it will crush Unz Review into oblivion.
I suspect this needs being emphasized:
● (a) I do not hold that Jews are incapable of doing what the blood libel myth suggests
● (b) I do not hold that no medieval European Jew murdered a Christian boy and used the boy’s blood to make Passover matzos.
My here-relevant position is solely this:
● (a) I have not encountered any valid, reliable evidence that proves medieval Jews committed ritual murder of Christian boys and used the boys’ blood in Passover ceremonies or other Jewish rites.
● (b) By asserting, without support of compelling valid, reliable evidence, that the blood libel is true, you, Smith, and other, sloppy, rabidly anti-Jew writers provide grist for Zionists and Orthodox Jews’ discrediting even legitimate criticism of such Jews’ manifest evil.
Oh, a fellow scolar! I wasn’t expecting a debate!
1. Regarding the 2008 edition: I am refering to the original 2nd edition in italian language. I was referencing it because it is easrier for me in to consult the original as italian is my second language where english is only my fourth.
2. Regarding the pressures to which the author was exposed to, here is an article (in italian): https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/toaff-fermo-pasque-sangue-e-mi-scuso.html . – Might you need a translation use any free online program (deepl.com, google translate, yandex translate etc.).
For your benefit I add here some excerpts:
‘After the uproar caused by the book and the condemnation of the Italian Rabbinical Assembly (…) the professor justified himself with the seriousness of his six years of study with his students and, in an interview with the Jerusalem Post, said he was convinced that he would be better understood in Israel.’
and
‘…the university itself was under a lot of pressure. Bar-Ilan University receives funding mainly from American Orthodox Jews who threatened to withdraw their support. There was even talk of pressure for the university to dismiss the lecturer…’
then the university gave up to the pressures an decided not to support professor Toaff:
‘Yesterday, the university issued a communiqué in which it expressed its ‘anger and great displeasure towards Professor Toaff for his lack of sensitivity in publishing his book on blood sacrifice in Italy. Professor Toaff, … should have shown greater sensitivity and prudence in handling the book and its publication.’
‘…the author as a consequence decided to block the book.’
I remember reading only 3.000 copies of the 2007 italian original were sold before they were retracted. Thus the price of a copy on ebay today is €300-800.
Then the article ends with:
‘The historian declared his regret ‘for the misinterpretations’ of his work, announced that he would revise the most controversial passages and that he would donate proceeds from future sales to the Anti-Defamation League.’
So the 2nd edition of the book was created conceding to the above mentioned pressures.
With the standard formula of apology and donations to jewish organizations as we witnessed the last time in the case of Kanye West.
Hope this helps in your future research of the matter.
I understand what you’re saying, but we might not be that susceptible.
If you believe in Khazarian Jewish theory, then you will find that in fact the Khazarian royal Asna family was born from intermarriage with us Chinese.
Their genetic source is us.
The Khazarian Jews inherited our IQ, but they lost our morality.
It’s okay if you don’t believe in Khazarian Jewish theory.
In fact, most Jews did not dare to settle in China.
Who wants to live in a country where 90% of the people are willing to kill Jews?
We are usually polite to them, but when they cross the line, we can be extreme.
Even our sweeper knows we need to kill all the Jews for world peace.
After all, for 200 years, all the wars against us have been started by Jews, caused by Jews, and driven by Jews.
For example, the Japanese invaded China because they owed money to the Jews. Jews, on the other hand, supported the Japanese invasion while providing loans to Chiang Kai-shek’s government.
Another example is that the Opium War was caused by Sassoon going to his relative Rothschild to lobby the British Parliament.
So many things have happened that we have recorded in history, how can we not hate Jews when we use this history to educate our children?
A new Westerner looking at our online rhetoric might think we are a Nazi state.
Forse Lei ha supposto, o sperato, che la lingua italiana sia estranea alla mia conoscenza. Ma capisco, leggo, scrivo, e parlo l’italiano.
Having read the article you linked — il Giornale.it article Toaff: «Fermo Pasque di sangue e mi scuso» — I do not dispute whether Jews pressed Toaff to disavow his book’s early edition(s) because, the Jews believed, such edition(s) bore evidence that might lead a sloppy reader (like many Unz Review readers) to believe, falsely, that such edition proved the blood libel true. I do not dispute whether that pressure caused Toaff to block further publication or distribution of such edition(s).
I do dispute whether, in an early version of Toaff’s book, Toaff presented — and, in such version, did not refute or rebut— clear evidence that might suggest the blood libel was true. Hence, I dispute whether Jews extorted Toaff, successfully, to retract and block distribution of such early version of his book and publish a revised version that would not to bear such evidence.
The il Giornale.it article Toaff: «Fermo Pasque di sangue e mi scuso» does not indicate or support an inference
● (a) that the book’s early edition(s) or revision(s) did
bear evidence that appeared to prove the blood libel true
and
● (b) that the book did not bear other evidence that
refuted or rebutted such evidence or its implications.
That article — Toaff: «Fermo Pasque di sangue e mi scuso» —concludes with this (final) paragraph [my translation]:
[I altered that paragraph’s grammar, slightly, because a literal English translation would be awkward and tone-deaf. But, I expect you will agree, my alteration does not change meaning or sense .]
* [[[[ Side note: In writing this comment’s remainder, I shall assume, arguendo, that the il Giornale.it article reported only true facts, accurately. Since the article does not purport to quote Toaff beyond appearing to quote the phrase «per le interpretazioni errate» [“for wrong interpretations”] and does not indicate the setting of that snippet that the article does quote, I cannot investigate whether the article misreports the facts it “reports” or whether the article invents or withholds critical facts. End of Side note. ]]]] *
The above-quoted il Giornale.it article’s final paragraph indicates that the Jews’ pressure did affect Toaff grievously. But that paragraph does not state or imply that Toaff’s book — one or two viciously criticized version(s) — bore evidence that suggested the blood libel was true and that was not rebutted by other evidence the book bore.
The article’s last paragraph states that Toaff regretted “incorrect interpretations” of the book, not any of the book’s actual language. But that fact only begs the question whether, in any version(s), Toaff’s book
(a) bore evidence that might indicate
that the blood libel was true
and
(b) did not bear other evidence that refuted or
rebutted such blood-libel-probative evidence.
The article’s final paragraph states also that Toaff apologized to the Anti Defamation League by promising to give the ADL his book’s future sales-proceeds.
But the statement does not imply that Toaff would exclude from a future edition or revision any language that somebody might consider proof that the blood libel was true: Since Toaff regretted only wrong interpretations of some of his book’s language, Toaff’s apology does not imply that Toaff’s book proved the blood libel true.
That statement indicates only that Toaff promised to pay the ADL wergelt (or weregild or wergild or wergeld)† for the ADL’s feeling the Jews felt defamed — so that the ADL would cease persecuting him (Toaff). That statement does not imply that, in some early version I have not seen, Toaff’s book did prove that the blood libel was true.
† Weregelt? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weregild
You don’t dispute “whether” something, you dispute “that” something. Other things you wrote may be correct but I can’t get past that huge pimple.
Dead wrong. But you are not worth an argument.
Jews don’t look even remotely East-Asian, how could they possibly be hapas?
I tend to strongly agree. Here’s a closely-related comment of mine from 2021:
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-170/#comment-5039158
Interesting. My natural assumption was that the Chinese were similar to the Japanese in ethnocentrism. Although I have heard people say that China is sort of like a Europe in which the Roman Empire never fell, and all regional ethnicities melded into one, so it makes sense that they would have a more assimilationist culture than is popularly believed (not sure if the Roman analogy is accurate though). Out of curiosity, do you think the Jewish population might also have been more amenable in China? There would be none of the pre-existing grievances against the Chinese that they might’ve had against Western populations due to the Roman history. I’d be interested to know if Jews better assimilated into other non-Western, non-Islamic nations, such as India.
Those might have been among the factors. But I think another important one was the Jews may have had a very difficult time gaining any special economic traction in Chinese society. This might have been related to the factors I discussed in this 2013 article:
https://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/
You wrote:
That language does suggest that English is not your mother tongue and may be your “fourth language.” Dois-je déduire que vous êtes français, que votre langue maternelle est le français (la plus belle langue), et que vous êtes une femme (puisque «Vivante» est le féminin of “alive,” “living,” “lively,” or “vivid”)?
After I posted my last-previous comment responding to you comment # 191, https://www.unz.com/article/religious-implications-of-the-carthaginian-theory/#comment-6580248 ], I began considering suspicious your above-quoted statement’s language “2008 edition: I am refering to the original 2nd edition in italian.” Why did I begin considering your statement suspicious?
(a) You stated also:
[Emphasis mine, Loup-Bouc]
(b) I wondered at your language’s necessary implication that the Jewish pressure produced Toaff’s writing a new edition quickly enough to have the new edition published just one year after the publication of the original 2007 edition.
So, this morning I searched again for a 2008 edition. And I specified “Italian language edition” & “edizione 2008, lingua italiana.” And lo, I discovered what you ought to have disclosed in your first comment addressing me — Toaff’s
That language appears before an English language translation of the Afterword of the 2008 Italian language edition of Toaff’s book. That Afterword‘s translation is available online here: https://www.medievalists.net/files/08111401.pdf
Below, I quote a few passages of that Afterword. The quoted passages show, inter alia:
● (a) Toaff’s original 2007 edition did not prove or argue that Medieval European Jews (either Ashkenazi or Sephardic) engaged in ritual murder of Christian boys whose blood Jews used in Passover ceremonies or other Jewish rites.
● (b) Taoff was/is an extremely scrupulous, honorable scholar whose book reflects extremely meticulous avoidance of bias, does not hide evidence embarrassing to Jewry or Judaism, and makes a guileless, forthright, honest case that the blood libel was/is a false myth.
● (c) Toaff did not alter his book’s original, 2007 edition in 2008 (or any later edition) to remove from it proofs that the blood libel was true, BECAUSE the original 2007 edition did NOT bear such proofs, but, rather, showed that the blood libel is false myth.
● (d) In the 2016 revised edition’s FOREWORD, the foreword’s section headed “ON THE TEXT,” that edition’s translators, Gian Marco Lucchese and Pietro Gianetti, rendered a gravely defamatory misrepresentation of the motive and effect of Toaff’s producing the 2016 revision. Implicitly, the translators leveled the same defamatory misrepresentation of the 2008 edition and the 2011 revised edition.
Now the selected passages of the Afterword of the 2008 Italian Language edition:
* [[[[ Forenote: In the following quote, all ¶ signs are mine. I inserted because Unz Review’s comment system does not permit use of 1st line intent paragraphing, which the quoted text uses. Had I not inserted the ¶ signs, the quoted text would appear to be one comprehension-boggling single-spaced paragraph covering six 8½” x 11″ pages. End of forenote. ]]]] *
Starting one sentence after that text’s beginning, Toaff wrote :
The text continues with, inter alia, these passages:
End of selected passages of the Afterword of the 2008 Italian language edition. And end of comment.
Breaking news: Today, 24 May 2024, International Court of Justice ordered Israel to cease assaulting Rafah (https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240524-ord-01-00-en.pdf ]:
Judge ad hoc Barak is an Israeli Jew.
Vice-President Sebutinde is a Ungandan Black, whose pertinent credentials are:
● 1978, Diploma in Legal Practice, Law Development Center in Kampala (Uganda);
● 1990 enrolled in Edinburgh Law School, University of Edinburgh Master of Laws program;
● 2009, “in recognition of her body of work and contribution to international justice,” awarded, by (an affirmative-action-oriented) University of Edinburgh, an honorary Doctorate of Laws.
If Israel “complies” with the Court’s Order, likely the actual reason will be either
● (a) that continuing an all-out assault of Rafah
will yield for Israel a substantial net loss
or
● (b) that continuing such assault will not advance,
but disserve, the Zionist dream of a “Greater Israel.”
Israel has scorned the Court’s 26 January 2024 and 28 March 2024 Orders. Netanyahu appears incapable of grasping that his genocidal program’s methods may impale his “Greater Israel” goal and truncate, drastically, his political future.
But it’s true.
Whether the Khazarian theory is true or not, the Khazarian royal family, the Asna family, was given the surname Shi during the Tang Dynasty.
They have a certain history of intermarriage with us Chinese.
The famous Anshi Rebellion in the Tang Dynasty was caused by the betrayal of the Asna family.
After that, they migrated all the way to Europe and became the Khazarian royal family. Our historical documents combined with those of Khazarian Jews fully demonstrate this fact.
The Ashna family did migrate from China to Eastern Europe.
As for how you think Ashkenazi Jews don’t look like us these days…
This may be due to intermarriage with local families after moving to Europe.
In fact, modern molecular biology studies have shown that we Chinese did participate in gene exchange with Ashkenazi Jews.
You can really think of us as a kind of Roman Empire that never died. But our existence does not have any religious character.
Anything that tries to conquer us will be assimilated by us in reverse.
It may be that we Han people have a profound history education.
Our language itself has historical properties, and every sentence may have a historical counterpart.
So if you get to know the Chinese language in depth, you will even be assimilated by the history that the words carry.
The heritage behind this historical character may be moral, or it may be a very reasonable character of the will to kill and the spirit of resistance.
Depends on how you interpret it.
Mr. Unz, please cease employing your dishonorable trick of hiding after “[ MORE ]” a comment’s portion that demonstrates your advancing an at-best-specious assertion. You hid after a [ MORE ] both (1) the critical span of my comment # 198, which quoted a substantial portion of Toaff’s 2008 “Blood Passover” edition’s “Afterword,” which proves, beyond doubt, that Toaff’s original, 2007 edition DISPROVED the blood libel myth and (2) the vital part of my comment # 198’s criticism of Vivante’s comment # 189, so that such criticism may seem frivolous. I wonder whether you will apply the same tactic to this comment, or even not publish this comment.
Thanks! That’s interesting that the Edomites were to the south of Israel today. This means we’re getting into the Arabian peninsular territory and specifically near to the regions where jews and Christians were situated, as some historical reports say that Christians and jews were situated in the peninsular towards the north, as well as yemen to the south. Incidentally the northern territory is home to MBS royal reserve territory and im sure you’re aware of the rumours of what he might be.
There were a group of jews that were in the Arabian peninsular awaiting the arrival of their messiah before the advent of muhammad and we know how that panned out, they rejected him on the basis he was an arab, allegedly; I’m wondering if the edomites were that tribe of jews in arabia that rejected muhammad but, were originally themselves a tribe of arabs who were later ‘judaised’ (like some non-indigenous arabs became arabised due to language mainly, but also some inherited cultural traditions such as north Africans and Levantine nations). So these edomites that rejected muhammad were actually closer to him than they originally thought! Interesting hypothesis I suppose and yes I agree it would be a good discussion to have.
I believe that Mr. Unz a.k.a. Seaman First Class “Tuck Your Shirt In” Unzman has knowledge of the whereabouts or what’s become of your strawberries, which he has proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with geometric logic.
Have you considered shorter and obviowsley more sanefnord would be ideal posts? murdermurdermurdermurder After all, it’s not like you’re getting the Unz Review’s Writer’s Longwinded Stipend chloroxfontanelwonderbreadspinach and too many keystrokes are the cobblestones on the road to perdition clumsymonkeybotchedvivectionresurrectabrahamlincoln and should be drastically reduced. Less typitude is more gooditude.
they have more in common with YOU (your precious so-called white race).
I am from Egypt you ignoramus
To me, Judaism and Zionism can be best understood by examining the difference between the Written Torah, a.k.a. The Old Testament, (The Pentateuch-five books of Moses, The Prophets, and The Writings) and The Talmud (known at the time of Jesus as the Oral Traditions of the Elders or Oral Law) as well as the doctrines of the Kabbalah (Jewish occult mystical sorcery divination) the oldest form of the Oral Tradition. Examining this helps to explain the nature & origin of Zionism and why all Jews are not Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews. Here is a document that further explains https://www.eaec.org/The-Hidden-History-of-the-Antichrist–Summary-of-Lucifer-and-the-Kabbalistic-Jews--Teresa-Hillebrandt.pdf
As a group they never assimilated in India in the true sense (perhaps one off individuals married locally and assimilated). They spoke local languages and perhaps had a local name in addition to a Hebrew one, but they kept all their own customs, culture and rules of food and marriage. But all other tribes in India did too, so they were never unique in that sense. They stood out for the reasons of their great wealth in the heydays.
When Israel was formed, jews from India emigrated there enmasse, so that shows that they did have a strong attachment to their cultural identity.
It is amazing that people insist that Palestinians of Gaza are the original Jews, whereas all historical knowledge leads to the opinion that they are Philistines, who never converted to Judaism AFAIK nor were part of the Kingdom of Israel.
Considering the very plausible thesis of Carthaginian takeover of Judaism, one must notice otherwise unexplained change to matrilineality from the Torah-mandated patrilineality. As matrilineality and cousin marriage was a custom of Phoenicians (and other people worshipping the Great Mother, Potnia) and surrounding Canaanites, it found the way into Sephardim communities, whose main authority, Maimonides, thought the most perfect marriage to be one of a niece and an uncle.
The very high incidence of cousin marriage among Palestinians is another factor which allows us to see them as Philistines/original Canaanites, and not original Jews.
The ritualism of modern Judaism, in contrast to many precepts of the Old Testament, also allows to see rabbinic Judaism as a syncretic religion heavily influenced by the cult of neighbouring pagan gods. Likewise, in the mould of ethnoreligion, Palestinians are still betrothed to Moloch, even if they do not know it; thus the mass child sacrifice in the form of war deaths of children on the account of Moloch-converts, Israeli Jews (who paid their own during the event promptly called Holocaust, the Great Burnt Sacrifice). The subordinate position of original Moloch people to converts is the consequence of the fact that Jews are still someehow connected to Jahwe, as he is their “ethnogod”.
According to the Old Testament, Jews many times lapsed, divrting from Jahwe to Baal and Ashtarte. Strange to believe that this danger would never return just because rabbis came and brought Talmud.
Gaza War, and its many tactics – especially suicide bombing – is a kind of Aztec “flower war” (Aztecs being another original Moloch people), a limited war designed to produce human sacrifice. Original flowers wars are now cartels wars in Mexico; sacrifice still goes on.
Military goals of Gaza War could have been achieved long time ago, but the war/sacrifice must go on, and recently Israel said it will last at least until the end of year (how did they know, if everything is decided on battlefield?)
It’s pretty obvious. In 146 B.C., the Roman legions under Scipio Africanus sailed across the Mediterranean to lay siege to Carthage and fulfil Cato’s imperative, “Carthage delenda est”– Carthage must be destroyed. Destroy they did, with legendary thoroughness, leaving not one building stone unturned, and even sewing the fields with salt so no food could be grown.
Even if this is an exaggeration, the Carthaginian sea empire was smashed to bits, with Roman navies ruling the sea. The surviving Phoenicians/Carthaginians had to scramble and did so as has been done some many times throughout history when a people conquered militarily proceeds to re-conquer its conquerors culturally over time. The Carthaginian/Canaanites proceeded to infiltrate and subdue Rome from within, ultimately leading to its disintegration and destruction.
The Jews– the real ones– were already established in Rome as a privileged and powerful religious minority. The religious “conversion” of the Canaanites, consisting mostly of taken the identities of their Jewish cousins, allowed them more easily to move into a Roman society which hated them after three wars, and where Roman mothers still frightened their children with “Hannibal is at the gates!”
Did the “real Jews” acquiesce to this for their own benefit? Were they shoved aside? Good questions. But the “conversion” of Canaanites to Judaism was undoubtedly a result of the Roman victory of them in war.
It’s funny that when I read Plutarch’s Live and other ancient sources that mentioned the Phoenicians the descriptions/complaints matched common Jewish stereotypes, cruelty, duplicity etc. I put it down to Greek prejudice against Semitic people.
Below is a snippet from H.G. Wells in his book “A Short History of the Word”. I Was skeptical at first. Years later I believe he was correct. There’s no other explanation for up to 3-7% of the Roman Empire being Jewish except for mass conversion.
True HEBREWS.
HEBREWS ≠ JEWS.
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