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Man Motivated by ‘Pizzagate’ Conspiracy Theory Arrested in Washington Gunfire
Eric Lipton, The New York Times, December 5th, 2016

Beginning in 1997, in an English town of more than 100,000 people, eight Pakistani men stood at the core of a group involving as many as three hundred suspects who abused, gang-raped, pimped and trafficked, by the most conservative estimate, well over a thousand of the town’s young girls for years.

The police were eventually accused of not just turning a blind eye, but of participating in the abuse — even supplying the Pakistani gangs with drugs and tipping them off when they heard of colleagues searching for children they knew to be in the gangs’ possession.

Others were afraid of investigating the gangs or calling attention to their behavior because it would have been politically incorrect to accuse the town’s ethnic community of such a rampant and heinous crime — in the words of one English writer, “Fears of appearing racist trumped fears of more children being abused.”

But when this story first broke, guess where it appeared?

Here’s how a blogger writing under the name Mehrdad Amanpour tells the story of how the story first started reaching people:

Some years ago, a friend sent me a shocking article. It said hundreds of British girls were being systematically gang-raped by Muslim gangs. It claimed this was being covered-up.

I’ve never had time for conspiracy theories, especially when they look as hateful as those in the article. So I checked the links and sources in the piece. I found an American racist-far-right website and from there, saw the original source was a similarly unpleasant website in the UK.

I did a brief search for corroboration from reputable mainstream sources. I found none. So I wrote a curt reply to my friend: “I’d appreciate it if you didn’t send me made-up crap from neo–Nazi websites.”

Some months later, I read the seminal exposé of the (mainly) ethnic-Pakistani grooming gang phenomenon by Andrew Norfolk in The Sunday Times.

I was stunned and horrified — not just that these vile crimes were indeed happening and endemic, but that they really were being ignored and “covered-up” by public authorities and the mainstream media.

The Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal first “broke” in the far-right blogosphere. The accusation they made was that these gangs were being allowed to operate undisturbed because everyone was too afraid of “appearing racist” to properly investigate them . . . and nobody listened to the far-right bloggers who were breaking this story because they were afraid of “appearing racist” if they gave any credibility to those far-right sources, too. Never mind that it seemed paranoid to rely on bloggers to report truths like these when the allegations were so wide-reaching, involving a literal conspiracy within the police force.

And yet, years after no one was willing to take them seriously, the far-right blogosphere turned out to be right.

Well over a thousand (mostly) white young girls were being abused by (mostly) Pakistani gangs.

And the authorities were covering it up.

We are now, once again, in the stage of an evolving scandal that Mehrdad Amanpour described his experience with above. Just to be clear, I’m not going to commit myself to the idea that this is going to be as huge as Rotherham was. We should be careful: we don’t know what would or wouldn’t be confirmed with a proper investigation. The question here is not whether we’ve gotten to the bottom of this online. The question is whether there is enough here to justify thinking there should be a proper investigation.

And the parallel with Rotherham is that the relatively small number of people asking for that are mostly the loathsome kinds of people who run “racist far-right websites.” So, since the claims are inherently conspiratorial, and the mainstream doesn’t want to be associated with those people who are talking about it, it is once again all too easy to just dismiss the claims out of hand as paranoia run wild.

Again, the evolution of the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal was an extremelypainful lesson that the mainstream can be wrong and the “paranoid racist far-right” can be right. And that lesson was far too expensive to simply let go to waste.

The name of this scandal is Pizzagate.

It gets the name for two reasons: first, because at the center of the scandal are high-level Washington insiders who own a handful of businesses in the DC area, including a couple pizzerias (Comet Ping Pong and Besta Pizza), who have fallen under suspicion for involvement in a child sex abuse ring. Second, because the first questions arose in peoples’ minds as a result of some very bizarre emails revealed by Wikileaks in The Podesta Emails that, quite simply, just sound strange (and usually involve weird references to pizza). One of the strangest emails involves Joe Podesta being asked this question: “The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related). Is it yours?”

The evidence is of wildly varying levels of quality, ranging from the pareidolia of “Jesus is appearing to me in my toast” to “wait, that’s actually pretty damn creepy.” The mountain of claims and observations and speculations being compiled in places like Voat and Steemit are too overwhelming for any one person to hope to wade through sorting wheat from chaff, and while I don’t intend to try, I will summarize some just a little bit of it here.

While many of these claims are wild speculation over coincidences (though by no means all of them are), at some point I think a bunch of weird coincidences involving pedophilia and kids becomes sort of damning in and of itself. In one email, Podesta is among those being invited to a farm and the host says, “Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in [the] pool for sure.”

Could that have an innocent explanation? Sure, maybe. But inviting a group of adult men to a gathering and calling young children “further entertainment” while listing their ages is weird , whether it ends up having an explanation or not.

If I was getting messages that listed the ages of young children that would be in a pool…

And it turned out that the logo for my business contained a symbol strikingly close to the “little boy lover” logo used by pedophiles to signify that their interest is in young boys rather than girls . . .

And the bands that showed up at my restaurant had albums called All the Children with images on the cover of a child putting phallic-shaped objects into his mouth . . .

. . . and were found making creepy jokes about pedophilia (in reference to Jared Fogle: “we all have our preferences . . .”) . . . and there were instagram photos coming out of kids (“jokingly?”) taped to the tables in my restaurant . . .

. . . frankly, I would start asking questions about myself.

Here are just a few of the more “institutional” coincidences involved in the story: one of the men on the small list of people found “liking” photos like this one on these individuals’ Instagram accounts is Arun Rao, the U.S. Attorney Chief, charged with prosecuting cases of child pornography.

Besta Pizza, the business whose logo so closely resembled the “little boy lover” logo, is owned by Andrew Kline, who was one of four attorneys in the Human Trafficking Prosecution Unit of the Department of Justice. Isn’t it just a little unusual that someone that high up in a human trafficking division would fail to notice the symbolism?

For yet another coincidence, Lauren Silsby-Gayler is the former director of The New Life Children’s Refuge in Haiti. It is a matter of public record that she was caught, prosecuted, and sent to jail while in that role for trying to abduct dozens of children, most of whom had homes and families. The main lawyer paid to represent Silsby-Gayler, “President of the Sephardic Jewish community in the Dominican Republic,” was himself suspected of involvement in human trafficking.

When the Clintons gained influence in the region, one of their first acts was to work to get Silsby-Gayler off the hook. Among the Podesta Wikileaks are State Department emails discussing their case. Meanwhile, she now works on the executive board of AlertSense . . . which collaborates with IPAWS to send out nation-wide Amber Alerts.

While some of the supposed “codewords” people have claimed to have identified in Pizzagate appear to be made up, there is at least one unambiguous instance: here is an Instagrammed photo posted by James Alefantis, the owner of Comet Ping Pong that appears innocent enough: a man carrying a young child with a beaded necklace draped around both of their necks.

The disturbing bit is that the photo uses the tag “#chickenlovers,” and “chicken lover” is in fact an established term to refer to a pedophile — someone who loves “chicken,” which is also unambiguously an established term to refer to underage children (you can see this in the gay slang dictionary subset of the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang).

Complain all you want about the “speculative” and “paranoid” online discussions of Pizzagate, but when you have clearer-cut cases like this one where James Alefantis absolutely, unquestionably did in fact post a photo of a man holding an infant and the one and only hashtag he used for the photo involved a term that unquestionably is a reference to pedophilia, in a context where it is clear that there is nothing else here that “chicken” could possibly have been referring to, the likelihood that more speculative claims might have truth to them is increased.

There is a 1994 documentary expose on NAMBLA (the North American Man/Boy Love Association) called Chicken Hawk. Here is yet another reference from a watchdog group from 2006, proving that this one existed well before Pizzagate surfaced. Another confirmed fact dug up by the paranoid right-wing conspiracy nuts on the Internet?

So here are a few more things we do know. We know that Bill Clinton has taken dozens of international flights on a plane colloquially known as the “Lolita Express” with Jeffrey Epstein, a man who spent 13 months in jail after being convicted of soliciting a 13-year-old prostitute. We know that Hillary Clinton’s staff knew that Anthony Weiner was sexting underage girls all the way back in 2011 — and covered it up. Guess whose laptop revealed evidence that Hillary Clinton went on flights on Jeffrey Epstein’s “Lolita Express” along with Bill? That’s right: Anthony Weiner’s.

Now do you understand why the mainstream media was so eager to spin these emails as just a “distraction” during the election?

The staff that ignored Weiner’s sexting of young children included John Podesta himself, whose brother Tony is one of the very men at the center of Pizzagate. Tony Podesta has rather warped tastes in art. For instance, he owns a bronze statue of a decapitated man in a contorted position identical to a well-known photograph of one of serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims:

(See here for the disturbing photo of the real victim.)

The same news story that features the image above also mentions the fact that John Podesta’s bedroom contains multiple images from a photographer “known for documentary-style pictures of naked teenagers in their parents’ suburban homes.”)

Furthermore, Tony Podesta’s favorite artist is Biljana Djurdjevic, whose art heavily features images of children in BDSM-esque positions in large showers. Here’s one with a row of young girls in a shower with their hands behind their backs in a position that suggests bondage:

Here’s one with a young boy in a shower tied up in the air with his hands over his head:

In addition to Jeffrey Epstein, the Podesta brothers are also friends with convicted sex offender Clement Freud as well as convicted serial child molester Dennis Hastert.

We do know that the New York Times, which is now dismissing Pizzagate in its entirety as a hoax, is run by Mark Thompson — who was credibly accused a few years back of lying to help cover up a scandal involving another high-profile public figure involved in child sex abuse, Jimmy Savile, during his time as head of the BBC.

And we do know that this has happened before.

Lawrence King, the leader of the Black Republican Caucus, who sang the national anthem at the Republican convention in 1984, was accused by multiple claimed victims of trafficking and abusing boys out of the Boys Town charity for years. You can hear the chilling testimony from three people who claim to have been victimized by King in a documentary produced shortly after the events transpired.

You can hear the FBI, even after they received extensive testimony from victims, explain in their own words that they weren’t going to prosecute King because if anything were wrong with him, he would have been prosecuted by a lower authority already. Eventually, King was found “O. J. guilty” of abusing Paul Bonacci — convicted in civil court, acquitted in criminal court.

The best written source for information about the depths of corruption and cover-up involved in this scandal is Nick Bryant’s The Franklin Scandal: A Story of Powerbrokers, Child Abuse & Betrayal (if you can’t find a free copy on your own, contact me through my website, and I tell you where to find it).

Could all of this turn out to be nothing?

Of course it could.

But that’s not the question here. The question is how we should respond to the possibility.

Do we take the possibility seriously? History clearly indicates that we should. Even if it did turn out to be nothing at all, I would still be more proud to belong to a community willing to take the possibility seriously and call for investigation than I would to belong to a community that dismissed the possibility far too hastily and luckily turned out to be right — even as it did this and turned out to be wrong in so many cases like Rotherham before.

The real horror here would be to live in a society that responded as Reddit has — by shutting down the whole conversation entirely, banning r/pizzagate even while keeping subreddits like r/pedofriends, “a place for (non-offending) pedophiles and allies to make friends with each other!” alive.

Over on his blog, Scott Adams asks us to keep in mind cases where confirmation bias did lead to false allegations of institutional pedophilia, to caution against excessive confidence. (He hastens to add: “I want to be totally clear here that I’m not saying Pizzagate is false. I see the mountain of evidence too. And collectively it feels totally persuasive to me. It might even be true. I’m not debating the underlying truth of it. That part I don’t know.”)

But which is worse? If all the evidence coming out of Pizzagate is entirely false, what have we lost by spending time on it? On the other hand, if even five percent of the allegations that have been made surrounding the topic are true, what have we lost by ignoring them? Which is worse: spending too much time pursuing and thoroughly vetting false leads, or looking the other way while any amount of child abuse goes on?

According to the FBI’s National Crime Information Center (NCIC) database, nearly 470,000 children disappear in the United States alone each year. This number is dubious for a number of reasons. It looks like some number of runaways end up in the NCIC count, and to make matters worse, repeat offenders can make it into the data multiple times. So that would suggest that the real number must be lower than this tally; but on the other hand, we also know that many missing children are never reported in the first place, so it’s possible that that could boost the number back up. The bottom line, however, seems to be that there is no reliable way to determine how many total children are actually missing in the U.S.

Either way, though, even if correcting for these errors took out 90% of the disappearances in the NCIC database, and there were no unreported disappearances to account for at all, I think even the resulting 50,000 per year would still be enough to call the problem systematic and justify suspicion that these disappearances could well involve organized efforts—given that we already know of so many pedophile rings in so many powerful institutions.

In 2013, Canada busted a ring involving more than 300 adults, who had teachers, doctors, and nurses heavily represented among them. A pedophile ring has just been identified in the highest levels of UK football (Americans know the sport as soccer). Norwegian police also just uncovered a ring of 50 organized pedophiles mostly working in the tech sector, once again including elected officials, teachers, and lawyers. The Vatican scandals can practically go without mention — institutional involvement in child sex exploitation is nearly an a priori given.

And the children that are being raped and murdered in the photos passed around by these child porn rings are coming from somewhere. And when figures like politicians, teachers, and lawyers are involved in the rings, it’s hardly inconceivable that they could be involved in disappearances.

Have we identified one here?

Only time will tell. But we deserve to be paid attention. We deserve to have the matter taken seriously. And we deserve a media bringing the most relevant facts to our attention after having actually done some due diligence on the matter, which we do not currently have. The mainstream media has lied to us long enough about things like Trump having only a 1% chance of winning the election that the public has increasingly woken up to this fact — which is why Pizzagate is getting so much more attention than the Franklin scandal did. If Pizzagate turns out to have even a single-digit fraction of truth behind it, it may not just bring down the Clinton machine and Democratic Party, it may sound the death knell for the mainstream media as well.

One of many related YouTube videos by “Reality Calls” and others, totaling many hundreds of thousands of views


(Republished from Counter-Currents Publishing by permission of author or representative)
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  1. FKA Max says:

    Furthermore, Tony Podesta’s favorite artist is Biljana Djurdjevic, whose art heavily features images of children in BDSM-esque positions in large showers.

    Psychopathy in the Pedophile (From Psychopathy: Antisocial, Criminal, and Violent Behavior, P 304-320, 1998, Theodore Millon, Erik Simonsen, et al, eds.–See NCJ-179236)

    This paper argues that pedophilia may represent a special case or subcase of psychopathy and that the main aims of both the psychopath and the pedophile are to dominate, to use, and to subjugate another person in service of the grandiose self. […] It notes that the major differences between psychopaths and pedophiles are that the object of the predation for the pedophile is a child and that the overt behavioral manifestation of the pathology is sexual.

  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Political correctness was definitely one of the, if not the, primary reasons for the Rotherham scandal coverup. But another major factor was the entrenched culture of pedophilia in British society and culture. Every aspect of British society seems to have ties to pedophilia, from Parliament, to the elites, the City of London, the government, public schools, Oxbridge, the universities, all the way down to Paki immigrant communities and even British soccer. The most recent revelation is that British soccer has been infested with pedophilia for decades, and it’s been covered up for decades. This culture of pedophilia and covering up for it in British society and culture helped facilitate Rotherham and the coverup:

    “Pedophilia Scandal Sends Shock Waves Through U.K. Soccer”

    In mid-November, a former professional soccer player told a British newspaper that as a child, he had been sexually abused for years by a well-respected youth coach. The player said he knew other players had experienced the same thing — and that a culture of silence kept the abusers out of the spotlight.

    But he wasn’t keeping the secret anymore.

    “I want to get it out and give other people an opportunity to do the same,” Andy Woodward told The Guardian. “I want to give people strength. … I’m convinced there is an awful lot more to come out.”

    His interview unleashed a flood.

    In the weeks since, a half-dozen other former players have come forward in the media, alleging years of abuse by multiple coaches and scouts in the U.K. More than 20 former pros have alleged abuse to the Professional Footballers’ Association. Some 350 people have reported abuse at youth soccer clubs to police, according to The Associated Press.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Skeptikal
    , @BB753
  3. Truth says:

    If Pizzagate turns out to have even a single-digit fraction of truth behind it, it may not just bring down the Clinton machine and Democratic Party, it may sound the death knell for the mainstream media as well.

    Your sad partisan shillery ruined what could have been a good article; you are are aware that Trump is associated with Epstein as well, right?

  4. utu says:

    50,000 – No way.

    “Weiner’s sexting of young children” – what do you mean by young children? 13, 14 years old is young?

  5. This is by far the best survey of this topic that I’ve read.

    What is clear is that the contention that there is “no evidence”, a contention that is asserted or implied in seemingly every mainstream media discussion, is flatly false. There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures. Anyone who denies this is utterly oblivious, or a liar, or a fool.

    As to what the evidence establishes, that is a different question. If skilled and intelligent investigators fail to take it up, then motivated and fervent – if not entirely competent – inquirers will surely rise up in their stead.

  6. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Great article, especially the Rotterdam lead in.

    One thing that is hard not to notice, if you look at who is involved here, is that almost all of the creeps involved are Jewish.

    It is an almost complete match to the Rotterdam case in the sense that a minority group preys on the mist vulnerable people of the host population and then uses discrimination as cover to get away with it.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  7. No_0ne says:

    Strangely enough, someone with exactly the same name as the individual with a gun arrested at Comet Ping Pong, Edgar Maddison Welch (extra “d” and all), has a listing on IMDB. He’s an actor:

  8. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It’s such a juicy story. You’d think the media would be all over it? Instead it’s become their flagship cautionary tale about the evils of ‘Fake News’

    It was really amazing to me that Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew were involved with this Epstein Island thing, yet nobody seemed to report on it at all. Again, it’s a juicy story…who wouldn’t want to get to the bottom this?

    The fact is the media is fused with the political class today. It’s heavily saturated with Jews and and Homosexuals and there tends to be a sort of a ‘secret handshake’ aspect to both of these groups. I’m not sure the media today is interested in examining the political class too closely, particularly the Democrats. It’s like a big family who are all looking out for each other.

    I notice this again with Hollywood and the allegations against Bryan Singer. Crickets. Nobody was interested in covering this stuff. It would be seen as déclassé to get overly worked up about it. After all thats what a prudish Christian would do…

  9. In one email, Podesta is among those being invited to a farm and the host says, “Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in [the] pool for sure.”

    Could that have an innocent explanation? Sure, maybe. But inviting a group of adult men to a gathering and calling young children “further entertainment” while listing their ages is weird , whether it ends up having an explanation or not.

    But that comes Tamera Luzzatto and appear to involve her grandchildren:

    And the group includes several adult women including Podesta’s wife.

    If this is exhibit #1, I think the prosecution case just got off to a bad start.

  10. I guess the only thing worse than this pedophile ring being true would be if this was some kind of limited hang out to make Americans lose all faith in their leadership and culture.

    Be aware that the Central Banksters want world government and for it to emerge the complete destruction of national governments is needed.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Anon
  11. Anonymous [AKA "Red Reddingstein"] says:

    I’ve been perusing it for a couple of days and so far I’m not on board. I’d love for some damage to happen on the Clinton Foundation/Weiner front but this seems not to be it (maybe Haitian doings will fill that in). The Tamera Luzzatto email, when read in full, does not seem necessarily sinister; if you think listing the ages is too salient to be a non sequitur, you’ve never met an addle-brained yuppie woman who freely babbles bits of trivia about little children, especially when she’s a relative and not their mother. I could even parse “further entertainment” as a sarcastic half-joke. (See “dining al fresco instead of al-CHILLio”–this is what suburban SWPL women think is called Humor.)

    The art collection is bad but remember, these are decadent rich liberals, well compensated for tax-farming us. They love to splurge on “subversive objects.” It’s a big leap from there to actual organized sex trafficking.

  12. Speaking of “artists,” I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged…!

    I guess he was just the tiniest tip of the iceberg.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    , @Che Guava
  13. Miro23 says:

    A good and necessary article. I read plenty of US news but this is the first that I’ve heard of Pizzagate.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Anon
  14. Che Guava says:

    That is an interesting article. I read Mr. Addam’s blog post, assumed the thing was a sham. Not so much now.

    One point of interest.

    The illustrations by Biljana Djurdjevic (never heard of him before) are clearly a copy of the style of Trevor Brown, an Englishman working in Japan, and quite popular for his picture books.

    However, while it is possible to appreciate Brown’s work as perverse material based on kewpie dolls, a transgressive laugh, the two examples of Djurdjevic’s work posted with the article have a different and rather ugly flavour.

  15. Anonymous [AKA "Aedon Cassiel"] says: • Website
    @Henry's Cat

    Yes, I wanted to showcase that there is a wide range in how strongly suggestive the different bits of claimed evidence are. However, the fact that adult women and wives are involved establishes little, because it is a well known phenomena that in most of these high–profile cases, the wives are aware and either say nothing, or else actively cover for their pedophile husbands.

    In any case, I think the weaker bits of evidence in this case become stronger in the light of other stronger pieces of evidence. As I wrote in the comment section over at Counter–Currents,

    “…if you search “Podesta Madeline McCann”, there are a number of coincidences suggesting the possibility the brothers could have had a role in her disappearance. The key point is that Clement Freud, the convicted pedophile who I mentioned in the essay the brothers remained close friends with, has a mansion less than half a mile away from where the young girl disappeared in Portugal. We know that the Podesta brothers traveled there on occassion, there’s reason to think they may have been there during the month she disappeared, and the police sketches look disturbingly identical to both John and Tony Podesta—see here for a side by side comparison. See also: “Emails between ‘paedophile’ Clement Freud and Madeleine McCann’s parents to be probed for child sex abuse inquiry.”

    … Now, when you add things like a bedroom lined with photos of “documentary-style pictures of naked teenagers” to something like the emails listing childrens’ ages and calling getting in a pool with them “further entertainment,” it starts feeling less innocent. I could picture a scenario in which I list my childrens’ ages and innocently refer to them as “further entertainment” for guests. But if I knew those guests were people who keep photos of naked children in their bedroom and were close friends with high–profile pedophiles and traveled around to visit them, I might be just a little bit more on guard about the language I was using and whether I was actively inviting my children to jump in pools with them.”

  16. MQ says:

    This ‘story’ is complete horseshit / random confirmation bias. Scan the full social media accounts of any group of 100+ people and you could find just as much ‘evidence’ if you were determined to do so. This is scary — the day that any social media post involving children that uses the word “chicken” anywhere in it counts as evidence of pedophilia is the day anyone could be smeared.

    Ron Unz should be ashamed of himself for giving this kind of unhinged paranoid fear-mongering space.

  17. @Anonymous

    If you can confuse Rotherham and Rotterdam perhaps you think the Podesta brothers, Jimmy Savile, Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Rolf Harris, Mark Thompson and all those Rotherham Pakistanis ate Jewish…..

    • Replies: @No_0ne
    , @jtgw
  18. @jacques sheete

    Speaking of “artists,” I always thought the sicko, Salvador Dali was particularly deranged…!

    He wasn’t deranged, just crassly commercial and lowbrow. He played up his gimmick of surrealist craziness to great profit.

    I remember a pre-Starbucks coffee shop I frequented in my old, bohemian college town. They had a signed, numbered Dali print hanging behind the toilet in the pisser. It was an interesting picture, a silkscreen print, as I recall. The signature was real.

    This was their hipster way of insulting Dali. Customers could relieve themselves while staring at one of Salvatore’s many thousands of products. He sold them to thousands of rubes who otherwise wouldn’t buy art.

    Art is always the province of the rich and privileged. It is a commercial enterprise. Even the “great” artists you might have learned about got their reputation by becoming popular with the elite. Today’s art is best ignored.

  19. @sebastian puettmann

    What and who do you mean by Central Banksters?

    • Replies: @No_0ne
    , @coyote
    , @Arnieus
  20. DanC says:

    Rotate the old logo for Besta Pizza 180 degrees. It is the pedophile BLogo symbol.

    That’s why when it got publicised, Besta’s management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.

    What is interesting to note in mainstream media “debunkings” of PizzaGate is that they focus on the doubtful evidence, things that could be “interpreted either way” and they leave out the glaringly obvious pedophilia links, like the Besta Pizza logo.

    Just look at all the “debunking articles.” Do any of them mention the old Besta logo? I haven’t seen any.

    It seems to me this is the way to wean the public off the mainstream media. Hammer on the fact that the MSM insists on leaving out the clear, obvious evidence and tries to imply that everything is doubtful and open to interpretation. Then people will start to associate them with coverup and BS. The MSM can’t recover from that.

  21. @Anonymous

    Can you elaborate on the provenance and history of those curiously coloured “police sketches” that are alarmingly close to the photos of the brothers?

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  22. Che Guava says:
    @jacques sheete

    Why, Jacques?

    I met someone overseas who was in Dali’s entourage late in Dali’s life, he was sleazy, but a gent, fine to accept ‘no’ for an answer and continue the conversation and drinks.

    Dali was a genius with paint, who but Magritte or Miro among the Surrealists can compare as a painter?

    Talented self-promoter and many great side-projects, too.

    So why single him out for denigration?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  23. Superman says:

    “the Podesta brothers are also friends with convicted sex offender Clement Freud ”

    I’ve seen no evidence of this whatsoever. All I’ve seen are shady websites claiming anonymous FBI sources.

    You underplayed the symbols. That’s one of the strongest pieces of evidence. Assuming the FBI page is real, there are three major pedo symbols: the nested triangles, the nested hearts, and the cloverleaf. EACH ONE is represented at a different business on that same block. Comet has the paddles that match the cloverleaf. If that’s too subtle. they add Play Eat Drink (P-E-D-ophilia) in the middle. Besta has the triangles. Terasol has the nested hearts, and if that’s too subtle, they added a big hand nested inside a small hand to symbolize the adult/child relationship.

  24. Sam J. says:

    Lots and lots and lots of this. Especially look at the Finders link. Nothing happened to these people. They were all let go. CIA director William E. Colby was probably killed over the Finders. Maybe we need to find these people too. I assume this is done to keep people under control. You don’t fool around with kids you don’t get in the club and don’t reach the top of the power structure. A handful of serious prosecutors could tear the whole case wide open. Gary Caradori, an investigator for the Franklin affair, had them but his plane was blown up and the FBI gathered all the evidence and sent it?????



    Now in Witchita kansas says Ted Gunderson

    2.Uncle Jimmy took me to his sick parties: Nephew tells how his childhood was stolen at 13
    FBI Investigates Presidio Child Molestation Report(This was called hysteria but some of the children had sexually transmitted diseases)

    One of the men said to be involved by the children was a military intelligence officer.

    “…Italian news reporters, who broadcast scenes from the films [child rape pedophile snuff] live at prime time on Italian television to more than 11 million Italian viewers….” gone


    Victim Claims Sandusky Sex Scandal Connected to Philadelphia Pedophile Network _ American Free Press

    The Franklin Scandal In-Depth Article – By: Nick Bryant


    Pictures of Pres. Bush with homosexual prostitute. This guy got a White house pass to be a press corespondent.

    Lots more where these came. It’s in every country on the planet. Hell here’s another.

    From Children of God to The Family International

  25. @No_0ne

    He is the same man.

    Interesting, huh? As I vaguely recall, this isn’t the first time a small-time actor has been a character in an event like this.

    There are many thousands of people across America who are trying to make acting a career. They will jump at any chance to get paid to play a role.

    Many of those people are flaky. I subscribe to the saying, “Actors are just carnys with good teeth.” This could be interpreted either way with regard to roles such people might play in weird events: Either the actor was hired, or the actor was just freaky enough to do it on his own.

  26. biz says:

    How do I know that Facebook screen cap has not been photoshopped to include that hashtag? Or for that matter, how do I know that it hasn’t been photoshopped to include the name ‘jimmycomet’?

    Actually, first of all, how do you know it? Then, after answering that, why should I believe it?

    • Replies: @benjaminl
    , @Tim Howells
  27. @Anonymous

    It’s such a juicy story. You’d think the media would be all over it? Instead it’s become their flagship cautionary tale about the evils of ‘Fake News’

    I was surprised, after having listened to last week’s 2Kevings/Grace and Steel podcast and searching “pizzagate”, to find a number of hits from WaPo, NYT, NewYorker, etc. As you say, the angle was different from what a curious person would hope to find.

    Of course their real concern was with the harmful effects of “fake news” on this honest small business, almost matching the concern they had for another mom-and-pop pizza joint in Indiana that declined to cater a hypothetical gay wedding reception a few years back.

    In any case, that the media would pay so much non-attention to this case is suspicious.

  28. josh says:

    Yes, obviously.

  29. The NYPD allegedly has some evidence but refuses to release it. The media refuses to ask questions about it. What we get instead is “debunking.” They set out to show that the story is false rather than attempting to find the truth.

    Where are the victims? What do they say?

    Are there any competent legal authorities left in this country? Or have they all been corrupted as well.

    Who will guard the Guardians?

  30. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Trump is connected to pedophilia circumstancially as much as these Pizzagate characters are. But because of partisanship, he’s not going to get the same sort of attention about it from the right.

    • Replies: @Anon
  31. benjaminl says:

    That’s my question as well. Can’t anyone photoshop anything these days?

  32. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not dismissing anything here, but as for

    That’s why when it got publicised, Besta’s management immediately deleted the old one and converted to a new, BLogo-free symbol on all their website and printed materials.

    if you found out your business logo (a triangular Greek key pattern) was used as a signaling device by pedophiles, wouldn’t you change it? I, like, probably, most readers, had certainly never heard of this symbol until today.

    By the way, Besta Pizza is the worst pizzeria name I’ve heard in a long time. The owners evidently have horrible taste or are more than a little clueless.

    Just playing advocatus diaboli, here.

  33. @MQ

    Thank you, “MQ” (no doubt a Top Secret Agent in Her Majesty’s Intelligence Services) for your deep insights.

    It’s nice to know that the taxpayers are getting their money’s worth paying clever trolls such as you to squirt purple ink into the faces of the vigilant citizens who are trying to penetrate the curtain of deceit which has been so elaborately woven for them ever since 1914.

    I don’t think you will be able to cover this one up, though, the way you semi-succeeded with Pearl Harbor and the JFK assassination. The Mainstream Media are losing their grip on the Narrative. You can see this by the increasingly desperate tone of Carlos Slim’s Blog.

  34. @Anonymous

    Where there’s smoke….

    Fry ’em all.

  35. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The children in some of these poor third-world ‘orphanages’ aren’t really orphans as we understand the term but are just from poor families who can’t take care of them. These international adoptions are a business where everyone along the line gets paid with the child being the commodity being sold to the end purchaser, people in the west seeking to adopt a child to make themselves feel good. As in the mentioned case, the agencies move around from country to country where people are poor and desperate and legal safeguards are weak. Although the end receivers seem to be mostly naive and well-meaning people there’s no telling how many aren’t.
    That a person with the stature of being a former president would hang around with a low-life like Epstein is really telling. He flew perhaps twenty-seven times on Epstein’s plane which makes him more than just a passing acquaintance. Birds of a feather flock together.
    The Canadians pulled in over three hundred people. If a country next to us, so similar to ours in many ways but with a fraction of our population, has so many that can be exposed at one time then how many could the US have? Yet we hardly ever hear much, just of a few lone wolves here and there. Look at how Sandusky got away with it for so many years. People didn’t want to know, turned a blind eye to it, because he was too valuable.
    This entire bunch who hobnob with each other have a very creepy vibe. There’s all these ‘coincidences’ that seem to gather together in one place.

  36. @MQ

    Do some of your own research on this topic and you will come to a different conclusion if you can get beyond your massive bias. The Burning Platform has featured a series of posts over the last few weeks that provide a volume of evidence that is impossible to discount.

    Most people cannot accept something like this would be real because they cannot fathom the depths of evil that exist in this world…..why, I don’t know. You’d think the fact that many of the people implicated have also been the ones fully on board with unprovoked wars that have killed, maimed and displaced millions of people, including children, would be evidence enough.

    Kudos to Ron Unz for exposing more people to this tragic, disgusting, horrendous story.

  37. Socionomic Theory documents that the public’s appetite for scandals is low when stocks and high and high when stocks are low.

    Case in point: The “news” about Enron was favorable all the way down, until the stock had lost way over 90%. Only then did “news” about criminality and malfeasance gain traction.

    This being the case, with stocks at All Time Highs after an astonishing 7 year vertical rally, pizzagate’s very existence here tells us that when the next bear market (in social mood, as revealed by stock prices) is in full swing, the level of sociopathic, demonic behaviors emerging into public consciousness will be unimaginable.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that child sex abuse, trafficking and even sex-related murder may well be hung around the necks of very, very famous persons, and the horrors so bad that those persons (if still alive) will not even make it to trial before they’re hung from a street lamp.

    Public disgust with those who ran (and run) the Federal Government will in all likelihood be so pervasive that it will undermine the very political cohesion of the United States.

  38. Anonymous [AKA "Focke Wulf"] says: • Website

    I recall an alleged (again, ALLEGED) fbi agent posting on pol that there was stuff ‘out there’ that could bring down the whole rotten barrel, and I wonder if pizzagate is what he referred to.

  39. woodNfish says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Before his death Dali signed thousands of blank artist media so that is could be printed after his death and sold as a “signed original” or a “signed and numbered print”. Dali convinced Picasso to do the same thing, but Picasso did not sign as large a number of blank media as Dali. When this was discovered after Dali’s death it was considered one of the biggest art fraud scandals of the century and part of its lasting effects is that Dali prints carry very little value even with a real signature.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  40. @BucephalusXYZ

    Watch for the “fake news” sources’ standard method for dealing with a large set of serious allegations like these from the internet’s “real news” sources. They will take the most absurd/least likely allegations and dispose of them. They will then unobtrusively fail to address harder to dismiss allegations. Instead they will argue to the effect that, some of these allegations are false so obviously all must be.

    The “truther” site Snopes once had a perfect example, since taken down, I suspect because it made the technique so obvious. One popular right-wing internet site claimed to link 100 or so suspicious deaths to the Clintons. Snopes attacked the obviously absurd linkages and was left with about twenty cases of persons who (1) were involved or rumored to be involved with nefarious activities involving the Clintons; (2) were scheduled to testify against the Clintons or rumored to be brokering plea deals; and (3) died under suspicious circumstances soon after. Snopes dismissed these with a comment to the effect that all public figures had numbers of known associates die like this; let’s just move on, folks; nothing to see here.

  41. fish says:

    All the more reason to continue investigating ….eh….Troof?!

  42. One thing to consider is: How would you proceed in an investigation of something like this?
    Find out what is most likely going on in the law enforcement community. Is there an active investigation? What does it take to get one started?

    Who has jurisdiction?

    Violations of the Mann Act?

    Were interstate or international trafficking laws violated?

    Were sex tourism laws violated?

    There are many retired law enforcement people who have pursued these types of cases. Why not consult with some of them?

    Question More.

    • Replies: @Pontius
  43. @MQ

    In one of my many different careers I worked for a couple of years as an outside consultant to the FBI’s ViCAP (now VICAP) program. About the time I was thus delving the depths of human depravity — and they are far deeper than the more fortunate readers of this are ever likely to learn — a scandal similar to this broke in Belgium, involving the highest levels of society, politics, and the EU bureaucracy in criminal conspiracies to kidnap children, sexually violate them, torture them, and even use them in the production of snuff films. A full investigation dead-ended after many suicides and suspicious deaths and disappearances. IMHO, based on some experience with criminal conspiracies of this type, the mass of material presented here is a pretty overwhelming indication that something very bad is happening. That the MSM (“fake new”) sources are not paying more attentionto this is scandalous.

    • Replies: @Alfred1860
  44. @Buzz Mohawk

    Dali was a self-promoter, a con artist, and probably a sociopath. OTOH, he was from a purely technical standpoint one of the greatest, if not the greatest, painter of the twentieth century, When he chose to, Dali produced the finest surreal paintings. One should not dismiss Cellini’s sculptures because he was a homicidal egomaniac nor Gesualdo’s motets because he murdered his wife.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  45. eah says:

    …I’m not going to commit myself to the idea that this is going to be as huge as Rotherham was.

    Sorry, but you are deluded if you believe Rotherham was “huge” in the media — even after the story broke, the English media did its best to downplay and underreport it — when they did report it, especially the BBC, it was always in a professional monotone, with no hint of outrage, or how disgusting and appalling all of it was, including/especially the behavior of the authorities — however let the BNP or EDL protest in front of the court where some of the Paki scum were being tried, and there you saw and felt media outrage — at this point, Rotherham has practically disappeared from the news — which is pretty sad because as everyone knows, it was just the tip of the iceberg.

    And as currently being framed and investigatively fleshed out, if Rotherham was “huge”, then Pizzagate will be a scandal of positively galactic dimension.

    People will not let this go the way they did with the Jeffrey Epstein sleaze.

    • Replies: @Pseudosyn
  46. benjaminl says:

    I am glad you posted this. I’m still undecided…. On the one hand, many of the people pushing this story seem to be crazy or not very intelligent. On the other hand, I have zero trust in the MSM and the “debunkings” are not very convincing. And the example of Rotherham is well chosen. Sometimes the fringe bloggers are right after all.

    I’ve seen very few people on Twitter who express neither “unconvincing dismissal” or “uncritical acceptance.” The only ones I’ve seen who seem to be, like me, “persuadable but unconvinced,” are @ChateauEmissary and @Stranahan.

    What kind of evidence would I expect to see, but have not seen yet?

    1. Most important: Has anyone come forward alleging to be a victim? Did I miss that? I think in every other scandal – Sandusky – Brian Singer – etc. – there were people who claimed to witness or experience these crimes. Is there anything like that here?
    In particular, now that there are thousands of people working on this, shouldn’t someone, even if afraid to be named or to contact law enforcement, have at least posted anonymously on 4Chan or Reddit, saying, “I was there, this happened to me, this is what I saw”?

    2. More critical evaluation of sources especially images. As noted in my previous comment, I assume that any image can be faked. And some of the “evidence” does look fake. So, who is evaluating the images to see which ones are real and which ones are fake?

    • Replies: @Si1ver1ock
    , @Anonymous
  47. Arnieus says:

    Pizza gate would go away in an hour if the Pedesta brothers would present a believable innocent explanation for their obvious coded email messages. Hey Tony, what are you talking about and don’t say its food. Nobody talks about pizza dozens of times in email.

  48. CK says:

    The msm is not paid to open the man-hole covers and expose the sewer dwellers.
    Especially so when the sewer dwellers are the people to whom the msm must have access
    for their “anonymous” quotes.
    For the next 8 years the msm will be needing access to the Podestas, and the Clintons, and
    the Obamas for “authoritative” but “unsourced” quotes. So no matter the truth or the falsity
    the completeness or the incompleteness of Pizzagate; it will not be investigated.

  49. This is the Internet Age. They have an app for that.

  50. @benjaminl

    I put a link to a video. If the video is correct, it will be hard to explain the App.

    Apps have a history and a pedigree. Someone needs to find the name of the app and where it came from. Maybe someone can get a copy of it.

    What is the app for? Ordering Pizza? Doesn’t seem likely.

  51. Anonymous [AKA "Beaderino"] says:

    Thank you for this article. It is well written and makes the point I have been trying to make. That the Wikileaks taken together with the Instagram photos warrant an investigation. A person with a predilection to pedophilia (based on the Instagram photos, choice of music, and music recordings at the Pizza Parlor premises) at the least, should not be running a “child-friendly” pizza parlor without some kind of societal due diligence to ensure the safety of our children.

    On the one hand, what is lost if an investigation occurs and it turns out there is no wrong doing? We would have wasted some tax dollars and time of the law enforcement teams, but James Alefantis would in fact benefit from being exonerated. If however, there is ANY truth and any harm has and is occurring to children, then the greater good resulting from the investigation would be without price.

  52. The only evidence here is that Tony Podesta’s tastes are depraved. He runs a major Washington lobbying firm: It is hardly surprising that a Potomac swamp creature such as Podesta would prefer spirit cooking over meat and potatoes.

  53. Wow. So ‘chicken’ means little kids? I did not know that. Well, Aedon, you just ruined a perfectly good blues song for me!

  54. No_0ne says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    He probably believes that Greville Janner is jewish, too. These conspiracy theorists…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  55. No_0ne says:

    Nothing to see here. Just shut it down. It’s for your own good. These people at trusted legacy media outlets have your best interests at heart, after all. They know best.

  56. @Jus' Sayin'...

    The Belgian case, among other high-profile quashed investigations, is summarized here:

    It was known as the Dutroux Affair.

  57. No_0ne says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You’re not aware of the existence of the Fed, and similar institutions in other countries? That’s odd.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  58. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    No, he’s been investigated and cleared of any nefarious connection. He noped right out as soon as he could get away. The excited lies about his Epstein connection are where the partisanship is.

  59. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    I just wanted to reemphasize Scott Adams’ statement about the scandal:

    Over on his blog, Scott Adams asks us to keep in mind cases where confirmation bias did lead to false allegations of institutional pedophilia, to caution against excessive confidence.

    These types of investigations and scandals can easily lead to ‘witch hunts’ and ‘panics’ and need to be handled with the greatest care, prudence, and levelheadedness possible.


    I wanted to add the following study/information, because as the study states ‘These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.

    This might just be an irrelevant distinction for most people appalled by this potential/alleged abuse of power and authority of ‘our’ elites; but I believe we might mostly be looking at and dealing with psychopathy and not necessarily ‘just’ pedophilia in this Pizzagate scandal.

    This has several different implications for how this scandal might be handled or be covered up, etc., because psychopaths are master liars, deflectors, charmers, etc., i.e. ‘pillars of the community,’ ‘movers and shakers,’ etc.

    There is another curious connection here; Professor Robert Hare – the father of psychopathy research – said this:

    Hare considers newspaper tycoon Robert Maxwell to have been a strong candidate as a corporate psychopath.[10]

    Robert Maxwell is the father of Ghislaine Maxwell, who is close friends with Jeffery Epstein:

    In an American court case that was made public in January 2015, a woman identified as ‘Jane Doe 3’ said she was approached by Maxwell in 1999, and claimed that Maxwell procured under-age girls to have sex with Epstein. Maxwell has always denied any involvement in Epstein’s crimes.[10] She said: “She [Ghislaine] said she’d hit hard times. Jeffrey offered her a job and then, I guess, because of her ability to procure girls, she became a vital asset to him.

    Psychopathy among pedophilic and nonpedophilic child molesters.

    Among men who commit sexual offenses against children, at least 2 distinct groups can be identified on the basis of the age of the primary targets of their sexual interest; pedophiles and nonpedophiles.
    In the present report, across 2 independent samples of both types of child molesters as well as controls, a total of 104 men (53 pedophilic and 51 nonpedophilic) who had sexually offended against a child age 13 or younger were compared to each other (and to 49 non-sex offender controls) on psychopathy as assessed by the Psychopathic Personality Inventory (PPI).
    In both samples of child molesters, the nonpedophiles scored as significantly more psychopathic than the pedophiles.
    These results provide further evidence of the importance of distinguishing between these groups of offenders.

  60. Linh Dinh says: • Website

    Valuable article.

    In the picture of a man holding a small child, the bead necklace alludes to semen, and Besta is also one vowel short of Bestia, “Beast.”

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Sunbeam
    , @Anon
  61. @Henry's Cat

    It’s hard to believe but there are extremely disturbing examples of mothers encouraging and even participating in the sexual abuse of their children. To cite one high-profile example:

    It’s best not to underestimate human capacity for evil. I heartily echo the author’s urging to take this seriously.

    • Replies: @Anon
  62. @DanC

    this is why unz is so good. there is good chance to learn something new.

  63. @Anon

    Yeah – that’s a reasonable explanation.

    There are a lot of reasonable explanations for all of the Pizzagate stuff, I’m sure. But there are unquestionably pedophile rings out there and they’ve involved some very powerful people who were hiding in plain sight. We have to be careful about being too eager to dismiss warning signs.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  64. utu says:

    Nobody yet has mentioned child sacrifice and the so-called blood libel so I will do it. It have never heard about the sexual context in case in which Jews were accused of kidnapping and killing children in Europe and Middle East since Middle Ages till 19 century. And what about the organ harvesting? Is it possible that pedophilia and organ harvesting and yes children sacrifice can somehow be linked?

    The Bloody Passovers of Dr Toaff

    • Replies: @Max Payne
  65. utu says:

    Sometimes I wonder whether Dennis Hastert presided over Bill Clinton impeachment because of his pedophilia or despite of it. He ended up being the Speaker of the House after two previous ones resigned probably because they did not want to be involved with the impeachment business.

    Was the punishment of Dennis Hastert on relatively obscure charge Clinton’s revenge?

    • Replies: @Avery
  66. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “‘I watched Tory MP MURDER a boy during depraved Westminster VIP paedophile party’”

    A victim of the Westminster paedophile abuse scandal has claimed he saw a Conservative MP murder a young boy during a depraved sex party.

    And the Sunday People can reveal that detectives are investigating THREE murders allegedly linked to a network of VIP perverts.

    The horrifying account comes days after Scotland Yard confirmed they have launched a murder probe ­connected to allegations of sex abuse from the 1970s and 80s.

  67. Before Rotherham there were allegations of organised abuse in the Yorkshire towns of Bradford and Keighley – the then BNP (British National Party) leader Nick Griffin was IIRC charged among other things with fomenting racial hatred by pointing this out (he was acquitted by a Leeds jury).

    There’s a report of one (smaller-scale as these things go – some involve multiple perps, violence, forcibly adminstered drugs) anonymised instance from an unofficial police perspective in the Guardian of all places, when the Orwell Prize for investigative journalism was given to an anonymous police blog. Since then the police have pretty much shut all police blogs down. Scroll to “24 Hours to Crack the Case (Part Two)”.

  68. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Lot of smoke here, must be a fire burning somewhere, like on Comet Ping Pong’s Instagram page which has pics of pedophilia.

    But someone as astute as MQ might just call that depravity ‘art.’

    • Replies: @Olorin
  69. @biz

    Once this story started to break Alefantis made his Instagram account private, but researchers have used the Way Back Machine to access the previously public posts. I just tried to do this myself, but I got long downloads and after about 10 minutes I cancelled out of it. I’ve seen enough highly consistent video and photos re Comet Pizza and Ping Pong, Alefantis, the Podestas and their “art” collections etc. to know that this whole thing stinks. At the very least these guys are creepy as Hell. Far, far too many explicit and implicit references to sex and violence with very young children and infants for my taste. If this is not being actively investigated by the FBI that stinks too. IMO this is yet another Jimmy Savile case: i.e. literally Satanic pedophilia on a vast scale, with the active collusion of our political and media elites.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
  70. @The Millennial Falcon

    why dismiss at all? always investigate to the fullest of any signs of pedophile rings. why anyone would want to dismiss warning signs without an investigation?

  71. Olorin says:

    Your comment sounds familiar to me. Are you writing from the UK perchance?

    Back in the mid-Aughts I was surprised by how often I saw commenters at MSM news sites talking about the grooming and abduction of white girls in cities in England. At the time I was regularly reading BBC, Guardian, Telegraph, and Times. The stories where these comments appeared were diverse in topic.

    Sometimes other comments would share similar experiences. Some would say they talked to someone who claimed similar experience. Others would say they’d heard murmurs of such things.

    These voices repeatedly called on the MSM outlet to investigate, or they wondered why no response was forthcoming from elected officials or policymakers.

    This was after–I later learned–Ann Cryer (MP for Keighley) had bravely stepped forward on behalf of girls whose parents had approached her for help. IOW, the cat was emerging from the bag, but the MSM were trying to stuff it back in.

    Dismissive responses to these comments frequently were framed as yours is here: nothing to see here, move along, it’s confirmation bias, you people are nuts, mods, step in and censor them!

    In the Rotherham/etc. case, racism, Islamophobia, etc., were trotted out to inflict silence.

    What was most noteworthy to me, and creepy, was how these comments would be removed from the comment streams of these outlets.

    Sometimes the comments would be deleted but the response calling them racists or Islamophobes allowed to stand.

    By the late Aughts I was convinced some sort of coverup was underway of something terrible indeed.

    We now know that the MSM were key players in that.

    Similar murmurings were afoot in Pennsylvania for many years prior to the revelations of the sexual abuse of children by Penn State coach Sandusky. I knew men who steered their sons away from football in general, guiding them instead to hockey or lacrosse, because the word on the street was that football camp was not a safe place for boys anymore. (Nor, increasingly, Boy Scouts or church camps.)

    The gig is up for the MSM acting as panderers and pimps in the Cathedragogue of their own degenerate Narrative-religion.

    They won’t go down without a fight. They have more power and money to lose than any of the kids victimized by pedocidal perverts.

    But what those kids have to lose is a treasure of vastly more importance than power and money.

    Thing is, truth and goodness of spirit will win. This is part of why these degenerates fight back as they do. They can put truth and goodness on the run for only so long. They fight back not because they are losing, but because, by nature, they can never join the winning side of truth and goodness. It’s just not in them.

    All the more reason they need to be found out and reined in hard.

    One last thing, regarding some people’s assertion that these symbols, in-jokes, etc., are all “just a game.” Or, worse, “art.” (Which implies getting money and power by representing degeneracy to decorate rich people’s businesses, homes…and bedrooms.)

    If pedophilia, grooming, and child rape are now matters to take lightly as shibboleths of entrance to circles of power, then those circles of power need to be napalmed.

    “In the beginning there were the swamp, the hoe, and Jussi.”

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @MJ (UK)
  72. Forty says:

    In that case you should be in favor of investigating “Pizzagate” since the left is having conniption fits over the God-Emperor’s ascension.

    • Replies: @Truth
  73. Olorin says:
    @Greg Bacon

    Something confuses me about those images.

    This dive serves beer and cocktails (hard liquor), right?

    On all the concert/gig poster photos I glanced at, they showed the cover charge…and then said “All ages.”

    Is it legal in DC for children to be in bars?

    Not that I could imagine taking my children to a place where the bathroom graffiti says “shut up and f***.” And where I imagine every surface has been touched so to speak by HIV+ syphilitics and the food cooked by people with hepatitis….

    • Replies: @Alden
  74. coyote says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    lolz. “central banksters”… whooooo could they possibly beeeee…..? follow the \$hekel\$….. little men behind the curtains…. those great and powerful ozzzzies- such a clever little wizard you are.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  75. @utu

    If it’s my children to whom some perverted, undeveloped “man” is “sexting”, the answer is simply “too young” and “young enough for the guy to die.”

    How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child? Specifically how, and why.

    • Replies: @utu
  76. @Olorin

    I’ve just glanced at this but picked up the reference to removal of comments while retaining the responses to them which criticise the former as racist etc.

    Interesting to speculate how this came about. It does suggeest, does it not, that a would be whistleblower subverted attempts at cover up???

    • Replies: @Olorin
  77. Corvinus says:

    “There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures.”

    Pertinent evidence conjured up by the Coalition of the Right Fringe groups. Circumstantial, indeed. Thanks, Fake News Fanatic.

    “While many of these claims are wild speculation over coincidences (though by no means all of them are), at some point I think a bunch of weird coincidences involving pedophilia and kids becomes sort of damning in and of itself.”

    A classic Fake News Story by the Coalition of the Fringes Right. Scores of wild speculation + weird coincidences = truth.


    • Replies: @BucephalusXYZ
  78. Pontius says:

    One of the earliest “big” abuse cases at a Catholic orphanage in Canada was purposely kept under wraps because the chief of police and the clergymen involved had all gone through school together. Beat cops and detectives knew the score but the investigations went nowhere. In court, the chief claimed he couldn’t remember salient details about the case since he had memory loss due to heart surgery.

    • Replies: @Si1ver1ock
  79. Avery says:

    { the punishment of Dennis Hastert on relatively obscure charge }

    What ‘relatively obscure charge’?

    • Replies: @utu
  80. Here is an article on buzzfeed that supposedly tries to explain why some people beleive the pizzagate allegations:
    The author lays out a timeline of tweets, blog postings, etc.

    But the only gesture at a mention of any actual evidence (by which I mean the actual evidence that gets cited by those sympathetic to the pizzagate theory) is this line: “Noted Trump trolls on Twitter started highlighting innocuous passages in leaked emails from Clinton campaign chair John Podesta to claim they contain code words about pedophilia and human trafficking,” which is then followed by screencaps of two tweets. That’s it.

    It seems that he started off with the supposition that the pizzagate allegations are false, and took his task as explaining why people belief these falsehoods. And since he assumes that their belief must be irrational, he focuses entirely on explaining how these supposed rubes got duped. He fails entirely to consider that many have judged, on the basis of actual evidence, that some of the allegations are plausible.

    By contrast, a responsible debunker would attempt to show why the judgements, though grounded in evidence, are nonetheless not well supported by the evidence, all things considered.

  81. Sunbeam says:

    I think the crux of the problem is that most people find two different things equally plausible.

    1) That the people who are talking about this (pizzagate) are lunatics.


    2) That Podesta and the rest actually are involved in things like this.

    Personally I think a nation that has reached this point, that it is totally believable that our leaders and elites are a bunch of monsters… well that’s a real problem.

    Another problem is that the UK article a poster above linked to is two years old. Has anyone heard anything about that since? Expect to?

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  82. Avalanche says:

    “a row of young girls in a shower with their hands behind their backs in a position that suggests bondage”

    Did you not notice the red butts of those girls, and the frightened looks? These were spankees, frightened at the approach of the spanker.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  83. Jason Liu says:

    Even if it true that’s no reason to bust in there with an AR-15. Seriously bad PR for the right.

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  84. How many members of the media political class, that are dismissing this as fake news have enjoyed “pizza” at Besta or at a similar place?

    What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don’t have to worry about rock throwers if they’re inside the same glass house.

    Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.

  85. Truth says:

    I’m in favor of investigating any cinspiracy, and at the top, this silly “right-left” thing is nothing more than a distractionary rouse.

  86. @Corvinus

    It is useful to note that Corvinus is himself engaging in outright misrepresentation here.

    He quotes two sentences. Here’s the first:
    “There is a vast array of pertinent evidence, much of it circumstantial, but much of it also suggesting something of the mindset of some of the central figures.”
    This comes from my comment, and I endorse it.

    Here’s the second:
    “While many of these claims are wild speculation over coincidences (though by no means all of them are), at some point I think a bunch of weird coincidences involving pedophilia and kids becomes sort of damning in and of itself.”
    Corvinus offers no attribution, leaving the clear impression that this is also from my comment. But it is not; it is from the original article.

    My own comment continues in a rather different direction, drawing a contrast between intelligent examination of the evidence and fervent, if not so competent, investigation. Clearly my comment endorses the former.

  87. The Catholic Church just called and offered to bless any pizza under attack from the media. Ted Nugent would have wanted a slice too, but times have changed. The program today is targeted derision by the mocking information distributors. Anything that gets the hypocritical, prurient apes aroused these days is fit for mind control as long as business as usual continues.

  88. Alden says:

    It is legal for children to be in restaurants that serve liquor. Those places are pizza restaurants serve liquor.
    It is illegal for children to be in bars that serve only liquor but not food.

  89. Olorin says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    No idea, Wiz, and I won’t speculate.

    My provisional reaction was that readers were trying to get input into the news-agenda-setting process in the main way available to them (commenting, supplying a “tip”), and having their comments removed because they challenged the multicultural/Islaminvasion Narrative.

    I saw this enough times that it made an impression on me–things disappearing from one day/week to the next. Maybe confirmation bias, but I didn’t have a bias in that direction to begin with at the time. I didn’t even know about Ann Cryer at the time.

    I figured that the retention of the “Shut up you racist” comments was more in line with what we see in “higher ed” in the US, where the “diversity response teams” on campus allege a hate crime but won’t tell you what it was (coz, of course, that would TRIGGER people–far more important than a factual relating of events). But they’re happy to scream “racist racist racist.” To underscore the narrative of Racists Are Bad And They Walk Among Us.

  90. utu says:

    “What ‘relatively obscure charge’?” – Making payments in a manner hiding the detection of payments. Payments were not illegal but he was doing it in amounts below the amounts that automatically would require reporting. In my opinion he did nothing illegal. The crimes he allegedly committed were beyond the statute of limitation and paying hush money is not illegal either.

    • Replies: @Avery
  91. Miro23 says:
    @Sandy Berger's Socks

    What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don’t have to worry about rock throwers if they’re inside the same glass house.

    Could be, or more likely some sort of organized blackmail trap. Enough politicians seem to be involved in this and Epstein’s island.

    • Replies: @Blado
  92. utu says:

    “3-year-old child” – it is redundant to say child in this case. You you are using overly dramatic language.

    “young enough for the guy to die.” – So you would kill people for sexting to minors?

    “How would you react if someone sent sexual photos or propositions to your 13-year-old child?” I would punish my child first and cut it of internet.

  93. Aaron B. says:

    This is a very good summary; thank you for publishing it.

    The speed with which the old media have declared the entire thing false, far sooner than they possibly could have explored all the latest information and come to that conclusion, is astonishing. In other cases of conspiracy theories they think are false, they are willing to stand back and ridicule the theorists. Obama Birthers, 9/11 Truthers, Boston Bombing hoax, Sandy Hook…. all certainly called false and ridiculed, but that’s all. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them try to squelch an entire line of discussion from the start like this before, even threatening lawsuits and prosecution.

  94. There is one thing that should be easy to answer very quickly. Where is Julian Assange? It was Wikileaks that broke this story. I have been looking for “proof of life” since Julian Assange was disappeared from the internet.

    Come on. This should be an easy one. I want proof of life. I want to see an interview with Assange saying that all is well and good

    Where is Julian?

  95. Kirt says:

    There may be something to pizzagate but I’m very skeptical of accusations of widespread institutional pedophilia. I initially fell for the “Satanic panic” of the 1980s; I learned my lesson.
    I see that this case relies a lot on cryptic symbols. Reminds me of the people who see swastikas and white supremacy runes wherever they look and try to make a case for a vast neo-Nazi underground. But the author states that 470,000 children “disappear” each year in the US alone. Really? The link goes to “reported missing” which is a whole different thing. I once reported one of my kids missing; he turned up shortly afterwards at a friend’s house. He hadn’t even run away, just overstayed and not informed us where he was. That sort of thing happens all the time, but genuine disappearances? I don’t know of a single case and I know plenty of people with kids. In some third world country in a war, tens of thousands of missing kids might be believable, but even in most such countries (Syria for example) 470,000 disappearances per year would be a stretch.

  96. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Besta” probably comes from the last name “Podesta”…who I’ve read one of the brothers had part ownership in the business at some point. Just a thought, although, I agree, it’s not the catchiest name. Lol!

  97. @Pontius

    Seems apropos. There was a time when accusing Catholic Priests of being pedos sounded ludicrous.

    Now it’s a standing joke.

    • Replies: @Ace
  98. In the U.K., all the abuse took place by people in power. Catholic clergy over choirboys. Celebs over their fans. Pakistanis targeted girls from broken homes. The wealthy and ‘noble’ preyed on the lesser born.

    The worst though are the politicians, who have maximum power. I’m not sure I believe the pizzagate thing – the evidence is not conclusive (show me a victim or witness). But I certainly believe it is possible.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  99. Cortes says:

    The reliably excellent John Helmer provides an oblique reference to Pizzagate in the following linked piece about Propornot and its marvellous 200 Putin Stoogesites:

  100. Avery says:

    I kinda thought that’s what you were referring to, but wanted to make sure.

    His real crime was something else.

    He was a high school coach years ago and was raping underage boys in his charge. The cash he was withdrawing was for payments to one of the boys to keep him quiet. If memory serves, another one of his victims had committed suicide (not sure though). But the one Hastert was paying off wanted to burn him.

    In addition, Sibel Edwards, when she was working for the FBI and translating foreign language intercepts, picked up some conversations by Turkish officials, who were bribing Hastert, and claimed they “owned him”. He reportedly got \$500K, but not sure for what. FBI had courts put a gag order on Sibel, so she could not reveal any more details. The story was buried: probably because too many high ranking swine were involved.

    Hastert pleaded guilty to a Mickey Mouse charge so that there would no public child-rape trial, where the public might learn all the lurid details of what the filthy swine did to those underage boys.

    Hastert got away with destroying the lives of many boys.
    Hopefully he will be savagely beaten and crippled in prison – but not killed – so he can suffer for years.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @pepperinmono
  101. @utu

    And you’d do nothing to the adult perpetrator at all? Contact him? Report him to the police? Come on, I doubt you are that lazy or naïve a parent.

    As for sexting, what do you think an adult wants, hopes, and plans to do to a 13- / 14-year-old to whom he’s sending sexual photos, videos, or messages? Is he planning a nice game of chess?

    And yes, severe physical retribution is in order if the adult knows he is communicating with someone that age. The law should allow it. Or should we “not be extreme” and let him move on to someone’s else child and someone else’s child until he gets away with what he’s after?

    • Replies: @utu
  102. utu says:

    “Hastert pleaded guilty to a Mickey Mouse charge so that there would no public child-rape trial,” – I do not think so. It was beyond the statute of limitation. Yes, it was “Mickey Mouse charge.” If he fought it he could win imo, however there would be testimonies of the boys.

    Why did he agree to go with the impeachment of Clinton? Because he was (a) stupid or (b) he was black mailed to do it? Newt Gingrich was smarter.

  103. utu says:

    Report him to the police.

    • Replies: @Truth
  104. @Jason Liu

    Come on man really?

    You don’t think the whole story of an angry, right wing, White gun nut (whom no doubt further investigation will find was a Trump supporting member of the alt right) who decided to burst into the place one afternoon with an AR-15 and start shooting to “free the trapped children” or whatever the story was, doesn’t sound like bullshit?

    I’m actually surprised he wasn’t wearing a MAGA cap.

  105. @Wizard of Oz

    My thoughts exactly. There is a lot of smoke here.

  106. Like a lot of people I have gone from completely ignoring this story, thinking it was Alex Jones type fantasy to starting to wonder if there might not be some truth to it after all. So far I haven’t seen any definitive evidence that kids are actually being molested, or worse. And because the accusations are so damning I would want to be very cautious about casually tossing them around.

    That being said, a lot of the stuff that’s surfaced; the artwork, the cryptic messages, Spirit cooking, the odd choices of entertainment for a family friendly pizza restaurant and the Instagram pictures are just flat out creepy.

    Even with a presumption of innocence I wouldn’t allow anyone under the age of 18 anywhere near the Podesta brothers, Alefantis and everyone else involved without adult supervision.

    I’m glad Unz has decided to publish this. I’m interested to see if anything more will come of it. It certainly warrants further investigation.

    • Replies: @pepperinmono
  107. @Buzz Mohawk

    Today’s art is best ignored.

    Agreed. In fact, most of what’s promoted as “intellectual” or “cool” or “hip” is outright useless if not dangerous garbage. And the producers of it are no doubt laughing with both glee and contempt all the way to the bank.

    Maybe Dali wasn’t deranged, but he was enough of a sick, violent pervert to make it hard to tell. I’m basing my opinion on Orwell’s assessment of the goof, so it’s possible he’s wrong.

    Here are some quotes from Orwell’s essay about the sewagemeister.

    Suddenly one of my father’s office clerks appeared in the drawing-room doorway and announced that the comet could be seen from the terrace… While crossing the hall I caught sight of my little three-year-old sister crawling unobtrusively through a doorway. I stopped, hesitated a second, then gave her a terrible kick in the head as though it had been a ball, and continued running, carried away with a ‘delirious joy’ induced by this savage act. But my father, who was behind me, caught me and led me down in to his office, where I remained as a punishment till dinner-time.

    A year earlier than this Dali had ‘suddenly, as most of my ideas occur,’ flung another little boy off a suspension bridge. Several other incidents of the same kind are recorded, including (this was when he was twenty-nine years old) knocking down and trampling on a girl ‘until they had to tear her, bleeding, out of my reach.’

    When he first meets his future wife, Gala, he is greatly tempted to push her off a precipice. He is aware that there is something that she wants him to do to her, and after their first kiss the confession is made:

    -George Orwell, Benefit Of Clergy: Some Notes On Salvador Dali, 1944

    • Replies: @anon
  108. @Linh Dinh

    Valuable comment!

    Holy…bleep! You ARE a flippin genius! Thanks for pointing that out!!!

    Man, there’s some sick sh!t out there.

  109. Where I find that this whole thing breaks down is that the original claim was that pizza was supposed to be code for child pornography. No one originally suggested that there was any connection to actual pizza. Alefantis was dragged in only when someone decided that any reference to pizza in the e-mails, even something as normal and unremarkable as a mention of a pizza party by an actual pizza place owner, must refer to child porn. I am sure that the true believers have done some mental gymnastics/retconning and now say, “They used pizza as a code precisely because the ringleader was an actual pizzeria owner!” But that was not the original claim.

    P.S. I have now finally seen the famous “girl with her hands taped to a table.” I am very underwhelmed. You do realize the kinds of silly stunts and games that kids like to do, right? The ping pong player behind her indicates that this was all in public.

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this “pedophile symbols” document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?

  110. @DanC

    Actually the logo issue is a prominent part of this Washington Post article (and a tweet by the fairly well-known Dave Weigel highlighted that part in particular):

    • Replies: @The Scalpel
  111. Sunbeam says:
    @Linh Dinh

    “the bead necklace alludes to semen,”

    Uhhh…. what?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  112. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @jacques sheete

    Orwell is not to be trusted with Catholics or people he views as Fascists. Dali was certainly weird, and some of his art is certainly perverse, but I suspect fabulation here (on Dali’s part, not Orwell’s). Had he actually thrown a boy off a bridge or assaulted a girl (both in public), we would not need to wait for his autobiography to find out.

    Dali was undoubtedly perverse, but more than anything a showman, and a very crass one.

    I admit a liking for all of Magritte and most of Dali. This may be clouding my judgment.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  113. Strange that the media which is usually so adept at turning even the tiniest of clues into evidence of racism, sexism, homophobia, proof of white privilege, micro-aggressions, etc. doesn’t see any thing suspicious about this.

  114. @Avery

    If you ponder it abstractly for a few minutes, it is utterly astounding that such a man could become Speaker of the House. WTF?

    • Replies: @The Millennial Falcon
  115. @No_0ne

    I probably know a good deal more about central banks than most of those who obsess about them on UR. Did you not notice the suggestion of madness in his last par? He’s probably a waste of time to converse with so I thought I might just try winkling out some sane meaning from him in the shortest way to start with.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  116. @Johnny Smoggins

    Podesta is a creepy fuck period.
    How did such a dweeb get to be such a big person in our national conversation?
    He is an obvious hack , but not a particular clever one. He just comes off so “are you fucking kidding me?”. Where do they get these dudes? James Carville. Paul Begala. Bill Burton. Robby Mook. Even right has George Will, Buckley. Strange unnormal people.

  117. Tulip says:

    I confess I don’t get it. I can understand pizzagate as a brutal and nasty last minute campaign tactic, but the election is over, drop it. A mighty tissue of “coincidences” woven together in a manner that would make Glenn Beck envious. I guess I need to fashion a tin foil hat and then re-read the article. I think it just discredits the source more than the target.

    If someone is actually raping children, then where are the children? The kids related to the socialite that she is bringing to a pool party? Come on, that is what plebes are for. How are the children procured? Where do they live? There is necessarily logistics to this kind of activity, and zero evidence of logistics, just some weird emails and weird art. Its like saying someone is a coke head because they had a runny nose. tweet at early hours in the morning, and behave very alpha.

    • Replies: @Shimshon
  118. Neoconned says:
    @FKA Max

    So the gang in Rotherham was molesting a thousand girls in a town of 100k.

    I wonder what percentage of child bearing age females ythat is in that town?

  119. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Turn a blind eye to Pakistani pimps and Zionist white slavers… but hunt down Haven Monahan.

  120. Wm Jas says:

    Not only is he an actor, he played “the gunman” in a 2005 short called “Something About Pizza.” Seriously.

  121. Learning says:

    Aedon: I agree that the Podestas and Comet Ping Pong are creep. However, regarding the missing child in Portugal, those sketches were different views of the same guy. An number of people with children were seen that night. A problem was that the Portguese authorities initially suspected the parents. There are conspiracy blogs about her parents on Facebook. The fact that Freud had a house there is another really creep fact though.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Aaron B.
  122. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    In the 70s, I hear that NY pizzerias were fronts for narcotics dealers.

    Are they now used by pedo-dealers?

    I love pizza, but this issue is making me feel a bit icky about it.

  123. Skeptikal says:

    Yes, I noticed that the first time I saw the picture. The hands are covering their reddened bottoms. I didn’t think of spanking, but of anal rape. But spanking or beating with a strap or belt is a more likely explanation.

  124. @utu

    You have impaired judgement. It’s people like you who allow evil to fester.

  125. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Every aspect of British society seems to have ties to pedophilia, from Parliament, to the elites, the City of London, the government, public schools, Oxbridge, the universities, all the way down to Paki immigrant communities and even British soccer.”

    Why do pedos gain such power? Same reason why homos do? Since many of them don’t have families and since they resent the Normal World(from which they must hide their deviance or sickness), do they have extra time/energy for gaining power? Are they fueled by resentment toward Normal Society? It seems like homos had a kind of revenge streak, and it all came out with New Normal. Homos really want to rub our faces in their feces. They want to force us to accept the New Normal or be totally destroyed. They want to turn us into their bitches. They are into Bitch-Hunting.

    Working in the shadows, homos and pedos seemed to gained considerable power. And since they are associated with Vice Industry, they have the dirt on everyone else and can blackmail them. Bill Clinton prolly never had sex with a minor, but surely homos and pedos have a lot of dirt on him about his many affairs and orgies. And since they have many connections, they serve as essential middlemen for those who seek power.

    Also, there is a code of silence among the powerful. They watch out for one another. And homos and pedos are both pushy and gushy. They are very demanding but also accommodating and supportive of the powerful and ambitious. They go all out to serve the powerful and those on the up-and-up, but they also demand a cut of the pie.

    The ambitious care most about power and privilege than about right and wrong. If their power depends on a coterie of people committed to them 24/7, they will look the other way even when they know something is up. Also, there is the human factor. People who work together closely develop an emotional bond. It’s team politics, us vs them. And loyalty must be favored.
    Since homos and pedos have more time on their hands and more energy(fueled by resentment), they might be more available to the powerful or those who seek power.

    Hollywood made the media the hero in the movie SPOTLIGHT. But the media seem eager to bury this as fast as possible.

    Why did it take so long for the Hastert and Sandusky cases to come to light?

    How did they get away with that stuff forever?

    Is it a good idea to allow homos into Boy Scouts?

    Homos seem to be closely allied with pedos, and the trajectory of our culture is to normalize pedophilia by sexualizing young girls and boys. If young ones are sexualized, it means they can be objects of sexual desire. And then what?

    And the scientific community is arguing pedophilia should be treated as a condition than a crime. This may be legit as long as pedos didn’t act on their impulses. But if they did, how can it not be a crime?
    Rape is ‘natural’ too given that sexual feelings are natural. But we can’t treat rape itself as a condition and not a crime.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  126. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @The Millennial Falcon

    I think the girl abused by Roman Polanski was offered up by her mother.

    Given Hollywood and Jewish community’s support of Polanski, something is very fishy.

    And look at Woltz.

    And look at this freaky stuff:

    • Replies: @Anon
  127. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @sebastian puettmann

    Yeah, even if nothing happened, the whole culture around those clubs and pizzerias is trashy, vapid, and disgusting.

    So, the Best and Brightest indulge in debased Warholisms, Mapplethorpeisms, and Teletubbisms.

    No wonder we end up with ‘gay marriage’ and ‘rainbow’-lit white house.

    I mean WTF.

  128. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Maybe it should be called Pizzaham… like Rotherham.

  129. @Learning

    Yes it seemed a bit odd that they eere recorded as for the same guy. But that could be explained by them simply not appearing together but perhaps both being in the same coloured shorts and shirts…

    • Replies: @Learning
    , @foolisholdman
  130. Anonymous [AKA "AB Necessity"] says:
    @James Kabala

    “pizza” has been used on 4Chan for many, many years as a reference to child pornography.

    Child Pornography -> CP -> Cheese Pizza

    • Replies: @James Kabala
  131. @Alfred1860

    When we look at the immense scale of corruption in the political world it becomes much easier to understand how this can be when the spectre of blackmail is introduced. At one time homosexual blackmail was probably a potent force but now not so much, but what form of blackmail could ever be more potent than pedo-blackmail?

  132. Regrettably, though one may have grown old without ever feeling the wish to have sexual contact with a pre-adolescent or of anyone of the same sex it hasn’t been possible for a long time to deny the prevalence of socially disapproved sex drives and behaviours. So one finds that the nice young presenter on the antique show has been arrested for downloading and keeping pedophile images. And so on… But isn’t the idea of a large network, and what is needed to keep it covered up, a bit much to swallow? Nasty minds? Conspiracy theories?

    Well I suppose not. Sex as a drive and the perverse varieties of expression that we know to manifest themselves are enough to make one accept the pedophile reality. Then the network and the cover up? The cover up, however difficult to make it reliable, is just a consequence of the danger their behaviour exposes them to. And the network? Easy enough to explain once you are in it – like knowing that you could attend mass in a number of aristocratic Elizabethan households. But the detail of why and how it should grow from a very small group is obviously more complex. I guess that there are organisers and facilitators who seek various rewards, some financial, some in young flesh, some in the obtaining of blackmailing power.

  133. @coyote

    See #117 if that’s not too much intellectual effort for you.

  134. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Linh Dinh

    I think DC should be called New Havana.

    Even if there was no pedo stuff, it is deeply dispiriting, disillusioning, and disturbing that we are ruled by such people into or tolerant of homo-degeneracy, decadence, puerile sensibility, and cynicism.

    Everything about them seems to be about power and privilege for power and privilege’s sake.

    But in a world in which God is dead, culture is degenerate, traditions are forgotten, morality is a joke, and identities are based on TV shows & porny music, what can we expect? Boomers’ gift to us.

    When degeneracy and perversion are so widespread, every transgressor is looking out for others. Bruce Jenner is a ‘woman’, privileged people are into cuck or swinging culture, young kids have access to hard porn, pop music is prostitution, etc.
    And more and more female teachers are caught having sex with students.

    Since so many are into one perversion or another, they go wink-wink with everyone else.

  135. @utu

    It’s the age difference and the power equation that matters. If a fifteen year old is sexting a thirteen year old it’s quite different than a grown man like Anthony Wiener. I couldn’t blame any father who administered a sound beating to an adult creep who was sexting a minor. What kind of a society doesn’t protect children?

  136. @No_0ne

    Assuming you are too smart for elementary logical fallacies….. what is your point? Pedophilia and all sorts of sexual misbehaviour seem to be an oecumenical affair.

  137. @Anonymous

    You may find you agree with #133

  138. @Sunbeam

    Never heard of a pearl necklace? You’ve led a sheltered life it seems.

  139. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    For this to have legs, it will need a Linda Tripp.

    But who’s willing to come forth?

    Remember how the establishment circled the wagons around Alger Hiss?

    Even as late as the 2000s, a panel made the anti-communists out to be the bad guys.

    And it was only later with the Venona Papers that it became clear how extensive the Soviet spy ring was.

    Harry White might have been involved too.

    Or consider Sobell.

    Lies, lies, lies, lies, and denials.

    But finally…

    “In the nearly six decades since the beginning of the case, Sobell had maintained his innocence. Suddenly, he admits the great lie of his life. He is guilty, he concedes. And so was Julius.”

    The fact is the media sided with the Sobells of the world while assigning all guilt and evil to Joe McCarthy.

    Could media be sobellishing the truth again?

  140. @Wizard of Oz

    As the saying goes, the mountain is clearer from the plain than it is to the climber.

    • Replies: @Tabasco Jack
  141. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    MSM is so eager to kill this story but tried so hard to keep alive the UVA hoax.

    Even after it became clear that the whole thing had been made up, NY Times pretended that it wasn’t sure.

    But then, look at our political culture.

    Say nothing of Israel’s 200 nukes but never stop bitching about Iran’s non-existing nukes.

    And even though the West is the aggressor, blame Russia.

    Yellow Cake and WMD. Colin Powell’s lies and MSM’s collusion.

    Silence about black thuggery but pretend innocent blacks are murdered by evil white cops.

    A real inversion of truth and lies.

    Lugenpresse calling its detractors ‘fake news’.

  142. bobolink says:

    I have yet to notice anyone who has replicated the painting of the row of bound and kneeling children (all girls?) making the observation that all of their bottoms are red. Clearly there is intended to be a message in this.

  143. Shimshon says:


    First, the emails are not just weird. Second, regarding this:

    “There is necessarily logistics to this kind of activity, and zero evidence of logistics…”

    Actually, there is.

    Jeffrey Epstein, the Lolita Express, and his pedophile island. This was obviously covered up.

    The Pizzagaters have shed a tiny bit of light on Laura Silsby. Look her up.

  144. @MQ

    I believe that this story merits investigation and dialectic, not the type of ad hominem rhetoric you are sputtering. Perhaps you should consider where your own sympathies lie, and why.

    • Replies: @lydia
  145. @Tim Howells

    “IMO this is yet another Jimmy Savile case: i.e. literally Satanic pedophilia on a vast scale, with the active collusion of our political and media elites”

    Savile case wasn’t that at all – more like famous DJ/charity fundraiser with great PR taking advantage of his status with teenage girls. How many of the post-death allegations are true, who knows, but we know some definitely aren’t true – we know because long-time blogger Anna Raccoon was a resident of a small children’s home where Savile was claimed to have abused girls. She has a whole series of seven posts called “Past Lives and Present Misgivings” on the allegations.

    More “active collusion” is likely in the cases of Cyril Smith and Greville Janner, two pretty high-profile and connected MPs, who seem to have managed to go to their graves scot free.

    • Replies: @Tim Howells
  146. Blado says:
    @James Kabala

    Well it did come from Wikileaks of some FBI documents.

  147. Blado says:

    The idea of on-camera child rape as a prerequisite of entry into organizations/guarantee of cooperation is a pretty old one. It’s no doubt been done.

  148. I think this is just the tip of the tail of what is surfacing. This is going to be civilization busting before it’s over because of the obvious concentration of power in the hands of the ‘people’ involved. They will put up one hell of a fight and the big question at this time for me is where Trump stands in it all. Either he is the opening needed for change or else this battle just got much bigger.

    • Replies: @jond
  149. Mom says:

    You are sick. You obviously have no children of your own.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @CalDre
  150. @TelfoedJohn

    But I certainly believe it is possible.

    It’s not only possible, but plausible.

    Any decent study of history should teach nearly anyone that expecting the worst from those in positions of power will get one closer to the truth than not. There is little doubt, I bet, that “Pizzagate” is merely the tip of the iceberg.

    • Replies: @Ace
  151. @anon

    but I suspect fabulation here (on Dali’s part, not Orwell’s)

    Yeah, I thought the same thing, but then it occurred to me that a person would have to be pretty perverted to promote such stories of himself.

  152. Skeptikal says:

    How the “fake news” trope works in the real world:

    Flynn’s tweet regarding this story was perfectly reasonable.
    The story has been stamped “bogus” without any kind of investigation.
    No response to questions about the weird content of emails by Podesta and others.
    Makes one think the shotgun blast at Comet might even have been a false flag!!

  153. PI says:

    For those wondering about the authenticity of the FBI document, here is the wikileaks page where it was revealed in 2007 and they say “Wikileaks has verified the document”:

    And here is a MSM article about it:

  154. PI says:

    Wikileaks revealed the FBI document containing the meaning of the symbols in 2007. I posted a comment with the link but it’s still in moderation.

  155. @Che Guava

    So why single him out for denigration?

    I used him as an example of graphic example of GIGO since the “artwork” in the article is the product of obviously sick minds, and he obviously was a sicko, I thought it all tied in.

    I do think it’s telling that so many commenters here have risen to his defense. It hints that people aren’t confident enough of their own judgement to buck the tide and criticize sewage when they see it. No wonder the Hillary Clintons, the George Bushs, John McCains, and Kissingers of the world so often hold sway over it. They are not only not held accountable, but good folks even make excuses and vote for such pathetic heaps of compost.

    Furthermore, Dali was an artist in about the same sense that O-bomb-a is a peacemaker, Marx and Freud were scientists and Netanyahu is a stateman. Those who judge Dali on his “perception and technical merits” as contributing somehow to the betterment of society probably also have been gulled into believing the Peace Prize is anything but a mockery against reason and decency.

    And even furthermore, I’d like to point out that people can be and have been duped into all supporting all sorts of slush and rot, and it’d probably be to our personal and society’s benefit to be on guard against getting sucked in. Hence Juvenal, “Difficile est saturam non scribere.” (Yeah, I know I’m railing at the storm tossed seas.)

    Anyway, those who believe that Dali produced anything of artistic merit probably would all stand agog at the works of the “critically acclaimed” Disumbrationist, Paul Jordan-Smith. Yeah, and the Shrub was a Hawvawd and Yale schooled compassionate conservative, and the creeps in the article are all good guys.

    Where do you people get your faith?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Che Guava
    , @R.C.
  156. @Jus' Sayin'...

    One should not dismiss Cellini’s sculptures because he was a homicidal egomaniac nor Gesualdo’s motets because he murdered his wife.

    OTOH, no one should accept an obvious cow patty as a ham sandwich even if it was produced by a highly promoted cow either.

    A lot of these goofs are no Goyas.

  157. @NoseytheDuke

    Well said, Your Grace.

    It occurred to me after watching the #PizzaGate video now available at that the bronze anti-art sculpture of Jeffrey Dahmer’s unfortunate headless contortionist seen displayed so prominently in Tony Podesta’s house is a blasphemous parody of a crucifix. The sacrifice of Christ, voluntarily entered into and divinely ordained, can be contrasted with this involuntary human sacrifice of a sexual deviant, done in sin and secrecy for the satisfaction of profoundly perverse desires. Contrast the dignity of the crucified Christ in any good sculpture or painting with the obscene contortions of this poor, headless creature. “Men prefer darkness to light because their deeds are evil.”

    As the video makes clear, everything in the Satanic universe is “backwards” from the way it is in the divinely-ordained universe. Now we can see the important role that modern (post-WWI) critics and thinkers have played in the destruction of Western civilization: their Theories of the Painted Word exalt decadence and ugliness in the service of their Satanic world-view.

    It’s very important that the perpetrators of child abuse not escape justice.

  158. Kirt says:

    This gets better and better. So pizza is code for child pornography?! I often order pizza at the Barnes and Noble Starbucks coffee bar. Can’t wait for one of the baristas to either direct me to their child porn section or else inform me that B&N doesn’t carry child porn. So far they’ve just been serving me —– pizza!!!

    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
    , @Ace
  159. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @jacques sheete

    Paul Jordan Smith was a bad painter with a vivid imagination and a wry sense of humor.

    Dali was a good painter and a good compositor. His most famous works are famous for a reason; Persistence of Memory and Madonna of Port Lligat. Even when Dali’s work is bad in the sense of encouraging evil, it can be well-executed. The Sacrament of the Last Supper strikes me as degenerate and disgusting, but it is a well-executed surrealist work. Leda Atomica is simply beautiful; nothing of the kind could have been done by a bad (in the sense of being unskilled) artist.

    Most of modern art and a lot of Dali is simply artistic fraud. There is no merit whatsoever to the “rotting taxicab” or the “lobster telephone” (a lobster-themed telephone could have been done well, actually, but it wasn’t, and even then it would hardly be high art).

    You may not like Dali’s work, for either moral or aesthetic reasons, but his talent is undeniable.

    • Agree: Che Guava
  160. BB753 says:

    I remember watching an excellent Australian film years ago that covered this very topic. It portrayed in a very realistic way the whole homo/ pedo underground in the upper rungs of society, from posh public schools to university, where grooming of youngsters occurred, to Parliament and Finance, where the powerful pederasts/homosexuals ruled. In this world, the shortest way to power and riches for a young man was to seek out the protection and guidance of an older and powerful homo/pederast lover. It was shot in Australia and in Australian settings and institutions, but it’s all so British you’d think the film makers really intended the story to reflect British society and were using Australia as a legal cover.
    Sorry, I can’t remember the title of the movie or the director. It was quite disturbing to watch but very interesting.
    Perhaps Pat Hannagan or some other knowledgeable Australian reader can help.

  161. utu says:

    “You are sick.” – Please explain. What did I write to justify it?

  162. Che Guava says:
    @jacques sheete

    Where do you people get your faith?

    I am not to expressing a faith, although I am having one, Christian, Dali was a genius of art, aside from those listed by Priss in the later post, and many others, Dali’s Christian works are also sublime.

    You are likely to having the snob reflex ‘normal people like Dali, so I must hate it.’

  163. Pablo says:

    Well said. This is how many people view this matter. I don’t think it’s coincidence that the mainstream media is starting a campaign against “fake news” which targets rightwing websites while Pizzagate is gaining momentum. They’ll continue to try and discredit anyone who does a real investigation into it. Why wouldn’t people want to investigate even the slightest possibility of child sex crimes. Those not in favor of a real investigation have questionable motivations.

    • Replies: @Anon
  164. utu says:

    The pizza joints part in the story seems to be disinformation. It is possible that Edgar Maddison Welch is a part of the same disinformation. One can even consider that it was a purposeful false flag to compromise all pizza gate investigators. But suspicions about sex parties with minors, etc. and involvement of Podesta brothers are justified.

  165. Truth says:


    And you’re going to “report it to the police?”

    You folks are doomed.

  166. @Kirt

    Sorry, Captain Kirt. You need to spend more time on Planet Earth. Trying to drown out the children’s screams by turning up the volume of the canned MSM-approved laugh track won’t work this time.

    You’re a very good example of the type of “educated” person turned out by our colleges and universities: well-trained in Crimestop. It shows the difference between the contemporary American and the European of old. The European could “read” art but the American is functionally illiterate.

    The sad part is that if future AG Jeff Sessions ever decides to go after these monsters you won’t feel one scintilla of moral responsibility; you’ll still be smirking in front of your Stephen Colbert, mocha latte in hand.

    • Agree: Ace
  167. eah says:

  168. Paul Jordan Smith was a bad painter with a vivid imagination and a wry sense of humor.

    He didn’t even claim to be a painter, but for a short time (until he admitted the hoax) he got approval from the gulls and I ain’t talkin birds.

    I made mention of it to illustrate the point that people can be seduced into believing road apples are edible and the concept applies especially to the snobs, it seems.

    The “art” posted above is done well in a technical sense too, but that doesn’t justify it or the perps in my opinion or negate the claim that there’s a lot of sick stuff out there.

    The only people I know who claim to appreciate his work are those who’ve been told it’s special.

    Next I expect to hear that the dippy dauber, Churchill, was some gifted, genius pittore.

    You may not like Dali’s work, for either moral or aesthetic reasons, but his talent is undeniable.

    Yeah, but that is not the point at all.

    • Replies: @Anon
  169. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Let’s say there was no pedo-ring. I’m rather skeptical of it myself.

    But just look at that pizzeria. What kind of freako place is that?

    And why are some of the ‘most powerful’ people in DC such downright perverts and degenerates?

    The fish rots from the head. Degenerates run government, institutions, and culture.

    Government and judges push homo agenda. College push porn and 50 genders. Hollywood pushes drugs and tattoos. Disney turns girls into whores.

    And this isn’t just a ‘left’ vs ‘right’ problem. A lot of Trump voters were ass-tattoo freaks. The working class grew up on Jerry Springer, WWE, mentally deranged metal music, or Goth freakery.

    And middle class kids grew up on the nerdy black magic of Harry Potter whose teacher is a happy ass-man.

    Whether it’s elites and their Pervert Pizza or the underclass with their degeneracy, it’s ugly all around.

    We need Vito-Corleonism.

    This is how a man should be:

  170. map says:

    Those little girls are in a kill room.

    That is bathroom tile designed for easy cleanup.

    Those are drainage vents on the floor.

    • Replies: @Anon
  171. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not sold on the pedo-ring. Too much risk, though I think those ‘elites’ are a bunch of pervs.

    If anything, this pedo-issue takes our eyes off the ball.

    The real issue should be that the governing elites of this nation in government, colleges, cultural institutions, media and even military(look at those tranny freaks) are a bunch of decadents, even degenerates. We are seeing the normalization of freakery and grossness.

    The fact that it is considered NORMAL for Hillary to invite Lena Dunham to the DNC speaks for itself. The fact that Newsweek celebrated Obama with a gay ‘halo’ speaks for itself. The fact that churches hang ‘homo flags’ speaks for itself.
    It is a sick nation.

    A tolerant nation has room for decadence and even degeneracy. It belongs in the underground. They always existed.
    But now, this underground stuff is the bobo cultural fixation of the elites who consider themselves ‘hip’ and ‘edgy’.
    And they even introduce their kids to this stuff from a young age.
    Indeed, even without overt pedophilia, introducing sexuality to kids at a very young age is a kind of indirect pedophilia.
    When homo-ness is promoted among kids, what is being done? Kids will ask ‘what is homo stuff?’ And an honest answer will have to be, “some guys wanna stick pee pee into poo poo”. But then, the kids will have to be told THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, and if anything, WE SHOULD BLESS THE HOMOS. But why? What is so great about pee pee in poo poo?

    We really need Culturegate. The whole culture is a rotten scandal, and the fact that US globo-imperialism spreads this filth around the world speaks volumes about how sick America has become. We don’t need real pedo-rings of ‘pizzagate’ to accuse the elites of filth and vileness. Their cultural life is garbage.

    Just look at this: ‘mainstream’ culture has no problem with it. If anything, it is promoted as the New Norm.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  172. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    As John Helmer points out, the new digital news business model doesn’t provide any funds for investigative journalism.
    So who is going to pay for a serious journalist to do the legwork and paperwork and FOIA requests, etc.?

    • Replies: @robt
  173. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Sorry, I don’t get the point of the “Woltz” scenes in The Godfather.
    What do these scenes show?

    • Replies: @Anon
  174. Skeptikal says:

    Re “And why are some of the ‘most powerful’ people in DC such downright perverts and degenerates? ”

    I thought you were going to say:
    What are the most powerful people in DC doing hanging out at this creepy pizza parlor and doing fundraising events there?
    We all know where Hillary goes for “real” money: The Saudis, Goldman Sachs, billionaires’ glitzy summer compounds in the Hamptons, places like that—you know, where the money is.
    So WTF is she doing in one of these pizza joints? Why would there be any real money there?
    With creepy, tawdry “artwork” on the walls?
    Something here does not pass the smell test.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  175. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Those are deleted scenes and show Woltz as someone who sexually takes advantage of underage girls. And the girl’s mother plays along to further her girl’s career.

    This is made more explicit in the novel.

    I’m glad Coppola took the scenes out of the final cut because they all-too-conveniently justify what the Corleones to do Woltz. We can say he deserved it cuz he’s a perv.

    Poor horsey.

    • Replies: @Conbabe
  176. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @jacques sheete

    Why are you calling me a snob? What do you dislike about the Madonna of Port Lligat? What is good art in your opinion?
    You compared a man with talent to a man with no talent. What are you trying to say?

    If a man paints, he can be evaluated as a painter. PJS is a bad painter. What he had was a vivid if weird imagination. Most critics are either dimwits or clockpunchers; so what? I didn’t cite any, you did (Orwell). Please support your opinion if you are going to call us all snobs. Che G. suggested that you are the snob here and I begin to agree with him.

    Incidentally PJS illustrates the point your various interlocutors are making. His Jordanovitch stuff is seriously bizarre. If it were analyzed by someone with pretensions to psychology, it would reveal a seriously twisted soul. In fact, his stuff is rather more nightmarish than the vast majority of Dali.

    Yet he was a perfectly normal fellow; he used the imagery of absurdity and degradation to make a joke. Dali did the same thing, but he used it to build a reputation. Critics are stupid or lazy, as I said above, and Dali gamed them. Don’t let him get you too.

    An interesting point is that Dali (in his real work, not the <expletive> designed for dumbos) seems to improve spiritually with time.

    As far as I can see the only point is that you don’t like Dali. That’s okay. Some people are so benighted as not to like Vermeer. Many people don’t like Giotto.

    But Che G. and myself know of which we speak, so don’t go calling us snobs.

    Don’t know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being). No genius (unlike Dali) but quite capable.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  177. @Anonymous Nephew

    I’m intrigued by the Anna Racoon stuff, but I found it completely incoherent. Could you explain what these claims are, and why they should be taken seriously?

    Re Sir Savile and Satanic child sex abuse, at least two victims gave entirely credible and consistent accounts. Here’s a mainstream source:

  178. @pepperinmono

    The guy was a walking cesspool. That he was the UniParty figurehead for almost a decade indicates the extent of the corruption enveloping DC.

  179. @James Kabala

    P.P.S. Is there any evidence that this “pedophile symbols” document is really from the FBI? Did anyone ever hear of these alleged symbols before last month?

    Well, the image of the FBI document above is marked “unclassified”, so I suppose you could look it up at the FBI’s website.

  180. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “An interesting point is that Dali (in his real work, not the designed for dumbos) seems to improve spiritually with time.”

    Early Dali was indeed startling and striking in his surreal imagery.

    But he later became a brand, and he just sold himself.

    He went from being Dali to peddling Dalisms.

    By the time he did Madonna of Port Lligat, he was just rehashing his once fresh ideas into movie posters and ego-prop.

    This happens to artists when they run out of ideas… like Fellini after 8 1/2.
    He just became a marketer of Fellnisms.

  181. FLgeezer says:

    This sick story raises the curtain on an unimaginable case of Podestarasty.

  182. @Anonymous

    That actually reinforces my point if true – if the term really does have some kind of underground existence as slang or code, and it is just based on the matching letters CP, the claim that it is linked to real pizza seems like a pretty improbable coincidence.

  183. Aaron B. says:

    Investigators assumed the two sketches were of the same man, because each witness only saw one man, and they’re not that different by the standard of police sketches. Brothers often look enough alike that rough sketches of them could be mistaken for each other; but really, look at those and tell us they’re not dead ringers for the Podesta brothers.

    They match so well I was skeptical, so I tracked the originals down to an old CBS News article, to make sure they weren’t created last month by someone doing Photoshop tricks on ordinary photos of the two men. They’re the real thing.

  184. @Skeptikal

    Agreed. Often one wonders why such outrageous decisions are made in politics that clearly contradict the public good and one wonders, why? This topic goes a long way to explaining the why. I’m not so sure if the investigating of it is the hard part or the broad exposure, but it needs to happen.

    I am probably more tolerant of ‘deviates’ than most on here. Queers don’t bother me much, though I would recommend that they be more discreet and stop the promotion of their peccadilloes as normal. When it comes to children, even teenagers, I am very strict about them not being able to give consent and should be treated with respect, if not revered, by all adults with no exceptions.

    There is enough smoke here for a thorough investigation to be demanded and carried out. I hope nothing less ensues.

  185. Skeptikal says:

    Re “Investigators assumed the two sketches were of the same man, because each witness only saw one man, and they’re not that different by the standard of police sketches.”

    If investigators saw photos of the two Podesta brothers they would surely realize that what they had in their hands were sketches of two different men, the two brothers, each one seen by a different witness. The coincidence is infinitesimal that two sketches could come out looking like the two brothers, who, it seems, are known to have been in the area. Each one must have been carrying the child at different times. Maybe one of them “handed her off” to the other in a dark alley somewhere.

    Seriously, what other interpretation is there for this pair of sketches and this pair of brothers?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @utu
  186. CalDre says:

    Let’s get a grip. The first two women who Weiner sexted were in their 20s. The third was 15.

    To be clear: 15 is in no way a “young child”. “Child” generally means a per-pubescent minor; whereas a “teenager” means a post-pubescent minor. Hence arguably a 15yo is not even a child, but certainly not a “young” one – a young child is, say, under 5 years old (and yes they are sexually assaulted too).

    In fact, in many countries, a 15 yo is considered mature enough to consent to sexual intercourse. In this case it was just exchange of pics, not bodily fluids.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
    , @NoseytheDuke
  187. CalDre says:
    @James Kabala

    The document is apparently not on the FBI”s website, but has been released by Wikileaks as authentic.

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
  188. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Call Podesta ‘pedosta’.

  189. BTW, since the investigation has been driven off 4chan now, too, here’s the address of the investigation blog:

  190. Learning says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Here is an article from April 2016. It states that the two different e-fit sketches were given by an Irish couple who saw a man with a child in the area. Also I have a hard time believing even depraved upper echelon power freaks would do the actual kidnapping themselves.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @foolisholdman
  191. utu says:

    “who, it seems, are known to have been in the area.” – Known from where?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  192. @NoseytheDuke

    Agreed. I’m old enough to remember when cheating on your wife with another woman was sufficiently scandalous to destroy careers. Now, with the culture so hypersexualized and desensitized, they have to up the ante.

  193. @Anon

    The fact that it is considered NORMAL for Hillary to invite Lena Dunham to the DNC speaks for itself. The fact that Newsweek celebrated Obama with a gay ‘halo’ speaks for itself. The fact that churches hang ‘homo flags’ speaks for itself.
    It is a sick nation.

    Yep. I don’t have to look any further then this perv Alefantis. This is what you get when sodomy is legal. Of course this craven bastard makes all kinds of snarky degenerate comments about children on his instagram…

    Society has been desensitized to homosexuality- so they have moved on to the “prize”.

    You have hit it out of the park as usual, I enjoy and concur with your assesments.

  194. @CalDre

    Let’s get a grip….The third was 15…15 is in no way a “young child”…In fact, in many countries, a 15 yo is considered mature enough…

    The law will slap you in the dungeon where you belong, if you are apprehended for acting on your evil rationalizations.

    You sound like a sexpat.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  195. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Sandy Berger's Socks

    Disclaimer: This is not an endorsement of Texe Marrs or his views, but, I think, he is pretty much right on the money on this one.

    Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.

    John Roberts is a devout Catholic and most likely a loyal papal servant. The Vatican favors universal health care, because it benefits its flock, especially less well-off Hispanic-Americans.

    While the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops opposed the Affordable Care Act over its contraception and abortion coverage, the Catholic Health Association broke rank and consistently supported the law for making practical progress on helping working-class families and the poor. Obama even gave CHA president Sister Carol Keehan one of the 21 pens he used to sign the bill into law in 2010. […]
    The Catholic Church in the United States supports a universal health care law that both protects the poor and the Church’s right to practice its faith without undue interference from the federal government. The President needs to convince the Catholic Church that’s exactly what Obamacare does.

    Universal socialized healthcare has long been the goal of the Vatican and its Secret Societies. So when U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts single-handedly forced United States citizens to accept President Obama’s unsavory and heavily socialist “ObamaCare” legislation with his deciding (5-4) vote, the American judge, a devout Roman Catholic, won the immediate acclaim of his brothers in such secretive and infamous groups as the Knights of Malta and Opus Dei. […]

    Immediately after casting his vote and writing the majority opinion on ObamaCare, John Roberts told the Washington, D.C. press corps that, to escape the furor and controversy that erupted, he was heading to an “impregnable fortress to escape.” Roberts choice of words was carefully coded with secret and embedded meaning.

    That impregnable fortress, as it turns out, was to the Mediterranean island of Malta, the unofficial citadel of the papacy’s Knights of Malta. It was to Malta where, after their stunning defeat in Jerusalem, the Knights and crusaders had retreated to what they referred to as their “impregnable fortress.”

    Here a read that might be of interest to Unz Review readers, in regards to this article and discussion:

    Fr. Marcial Maciel, Pedophile, Psychopath, and Legion of Christ Founder, From R.J. Neuhaus to Benedict XVI, 2nd Ed.: Richard J. Neuhaus Duped by the Legion of Christ revised and augmented

  196. @CalDre

    A 15 year old cannot give their consent, they are considered minors. It might be OK if the other partner is 17 or so but even 18+ is too old to be messing with a 15 year old. Any man over twenty having sexual relations with a fifteen year old is a pederast and society has too much invested in youth to allow them to be preyed upon, they need and deserve protection.

    • Replies: @BB753
    , @CalDre
    , @Wizard of Oz
  197. Anonymous [AKA "Dr.Love"] says:

    I just recently came across an article relating to the Today show and Ashton Kutcher. The headline read, Ashton Kutcher saves 6000 sex trafficked women and children. Or something like that. He apperantly started THORN, which finds sex traffickers online. I’m sorry, but, these numbers seem exaggerated. Also, he claims that 6000 traffickers were arrested. Another thing I find extremely difficult to believe.

  198. BB753 says:

    Let me get this, fifteen year olds need to be protected from society but them having sex between themselves is fine and dandy?
    In this day and age, when teenagers are fully sexually active, you have to protect them from themselves.

  199. Skeptikal says:

    Me, too, re powerful men doing abductions.
    Wonder what the Irish couple would say if shown photos of one or both of the Podesta brothers.

  200. Skeptikal says:

    Re “known from where,” I believe, in the video linked above narrated by a young British woman, mention is made that the brothers have a friend with a villa very close by and one or both brothers were visiting at that villa. No time no to re-watch the video to check. But do watch it—hard to believe that these various “pizza” codes in the emails are on the level.

  201. Anonymous [AKA "glorietalabs"] says:

    I believe I saw the instagram account of Alefantis before it came down. The girl pictured in several images seems to be the child of a family friend. I thought the taped to the table image and the other pic with #chickenlover tag were at a minimum indicators of a dark humor or innuendo. Who finds this sort of thing funny?
    There were more pics of infants and a doll with creepy tags like #hoetard and suggestive comments, again, indicating a level of casual comfort with making implied references to pedophilia. ..wink wink.

    Gross, at a minimum. But evidence of a ring? I don’t understand why Alefantis doesn’t just acknowledge that there is an “appearance” of sick humor.

    Regarding the use of supposedly known pedo symbols- I’m skeptical. These are shapes and motifs we see everywhere. It could be that the pedo symbol inventors purposely chose designs that would easily coincide with innocent use so as to hide in plain sight. Or…hmm…?

    Podesta is definitely using code in his emails but my read was that he’s talking about drugs and partying. Didn’t we all use “pizza” at one time or another as a reference to party favors back in the day?

    The Podestas have bad taste in art. Not a crime, just a general indicator of regular degenerately “hip” tastes so as to impress the cool kids?

    And yet no one clears the air. And this is disturbing. I have yet to read one Wapo or nyt article denouncing the “witch hunt” but acknowledging that, yes, it looks bad. Because it really does.

    Incidentally, if they haven’t been faked, one of Alefantis’ instagram commenters is the maker of child sized coffin coffee tables. Nice.

  202. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Don’t know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being).”

    Churchill was much a better writer than Hitler was a painter.

    • Replies: @utu
  203. dahoit says:

    If you were a 13 year old boy(or girl)no,they wouldn’t be young.
    To an adult,they are children.

  204. par4 says:

    Here is the Judge rebuking serial molester Hastert (R) before sentencing.

  205. utu says:

    “Don’t know about Churchill but Hitler was actually pretty decent (artist, not human being).”

    Churchill was much a better writer than Hitler was a painter.

    Hitler was much better soldier than Churchill was a sailor.

    • Replies: @Anon
  206. dahoit says:

    We gotta da besta pizza here!Italian American immigrant slang.(or slur,depending on ownerships ethnicity)

  207. CalDre says:

    Using proper English neither makes me evil nor a sexpat. You, on the other hand, are an emotional zealot with an overpowered, under-performing intellect.

    • Agree: Stephen R. Diamond
    • Replies: @Stonehands
    , @landlubber
  208. CalDre says:

    In the US that is true, though many states have an age of consent of 16 (e.g., Alabama, plus many others), regardless of the age of the partner; 16 is not so gravely different from 15. And in Europe 14 and 15 is common as an age of consent (used to be 13 in Spain but was recently increased to 16).

    Some countries are as low as 12.

    In any case, my point was 15 is not a “young child” as a matter of the English language.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  209. @CalDre

    If protecting my under- age daughter from the likes of YOU is zealotry, then so be it.

    An intellect is worthless without a strong backbone.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  210. @CalDre

    The comment section is full of such zealots, and a borderline hysterical article like the one above brings out the worst in them.

  211. FKA Max says:

    I just had a long and pretty testy exchange about this topic here at the Unz Review. Mindlessly throwing around the accusation/label of ‘pedophile/psychopaths,’ is very unhelpful and disingenuous; just like calling everybody one disagrees with a ‘Neo-Nazi,’ is. After a while the real pedophiles/psychopaths and real Neo-Nazis cannot be distinguished from the ‘fake’ ones anymore.

    So, according to his diaries, he had sex with a 16-year-old, while aged 28, and others that he described as “boys” (which can be a broad term for ages).

    I don’t know if the age of consent has changed recently in Italy (which I assumed is the Etna referred to), but it is currently 14 years old, so if he did that today, he would not be committing a crime.

    Judging historical figures’ behaviour by today’s/local social mores is often tricky. (Somehow, I don’t think he would have written it in his diary if he knew, a century later, the semantics would be debated in public.)

    You should choose your words and sources more carefully. Don’t put your trust in the plutocrat-Koch-Bros.-controlled Tea Party or Alt Lite Infowars conspiracy theorists.

    Many of your own ancestors might be considered ‘pedophiles’ by today’s standards [emphasis added] […]

    In the United States in the 1890s, several states had an age of consent as low as 10. In 1895, the age of consent in Delaware was 7, according to an article in The New York Times.[31]
    Don’t participate in witch hunts, either.

    No, I am not a homosexualist, bisexualist, and I do not condone pedophilia in any way.

    I am just highly allergic to BS!

    Left-wing BS, right-wing BS, political correctness, etc. Lies, hypocrisy, etc., generally give [me] hives.

    Here a good read on the topic, just recently published:

    American Child Bride

    A History of Minors and Marriage in the United States

    By Nicholas L. Syrett [Published: October 2016]

    Most in the United States likely associate the concept of the child bride with the mores and practices of the distant past. But Nicholas L. Syrett challenges this assumption in his sweeping and sometimes shocking history of youthful marriage in America. Focusing on young women and girls–the most common underage spouses–Syrett tracks the marital history of American minors from the colonial period to the present, chronicling the debates and moral panics related to these unions.

    Although the frequency of child marriages has declined since the early twentieth century, Syrett reveals that the practice was historically far more widespread in the United States than is commonly thought. It also continues to this day: current estimates indicate that 9 percent of living American women were married before turning eighteen.

    By examining the legal and social forces that have worked to curtail early marriage in America–including the efforts of women’s rights activists, advocates for children’s rights, and social workers–Syrett sheds new light on the American public’s perceptions of young people marrying and the ways that individuals and communities challenged the complex legalities and cultural norms brought to the fore when underage citizens, by choice or coercion, became husband and wife.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @FKA Max
  212. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Sandy Berger's Socks

    “What if criminal deviancy rather than disqualifying a person, is not instead some weird prerequisite for elite status? Don’t have to worry about rock throwers if they’re inside the same glass house.Blackmail seems as good an explanation as any for things like John Roberts sudden change of heart on the constitutionality of the Obama care mandate.”

    This fits Occam’s Razor. I would go so far as to say that pedophilia blackmail appears to have been a method of political control since the days of the British Empire. Much like gang membership, participation is required for entrance into the inner circles of political power, then used as blackmail to enforce conformity and secrecy.

    Interestingly, there is a recent episode of “The Black Mirror,” a Netflix show, that addresses this very psychology.

  213. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @James Kabala

    The “explanation” was that the logo was a piece of pizza. Sounds like a convenient excuse. It looks a helluva lot like the pedo logo and not like a pizza slice at all.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  214. CalDre says:

    I’m not sexually interested in minors under any countries’ definition (the highest is 21). But your need to engage in ad hominem attacks shows not a backbone, but rather immaturity, disrespect and instability. I feel sorry for your daughter, not just for your profound character flaws and illogic, but from you inability to supervise her properly.

    Incidentally, the way you protect your daughter is by raising her properly and not letting her go out alone, as is done in the Muslim countries so many on here decry as “sexist” and “barbarian” (if you let your daughter go to a “friend’s party” until midnight on Saturday night, for example, you are fully responsible if she has sex). It’s similar to how you care for a female dog – it’s pointless to blame the male dogs for mating, the proper strategy is not to permit unaccompanied contact with male dogs. Same goes for daughters. But most people are too lazy to watch their children so they resort to the sort of puerile, ignorant and wrong-headed attacks as you do against me.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  215. Skeptikal says:
    @FKA Max

    Re child bride, of course everyone remembers Jerry Lee Lewis, right?
    Oh, they don’t????

  216. Skeptikal says:
    @The Scalpel

    The triangle is an established symbol for homosexuality, going back at least to the badges that identified homosexuals in the concentration camps. I am surprised that AFAIK no one has twigged to this as yet in the pizza context. Triangles were used also for other groups (different colors), but it seems to have “stuck” in the case of homosexuals.

    “Originally intended as a badge of shame, the pink triangle (often inverted from its Nazi usage) has been reclaimed as an international symbol of gay pride and the gay rights movement, and is second in popularity only to the rainbow flag”

    The pizza slice is so convenient—it might even explain the choice of a pizza joint as a cover.

    Bugsy Malone’s speakeasy’s cover business was an Italian deli. Wonder whether there could be a mafia/mob connection in pedophile rings. The mob gets in everywhere there is potential to make money and also do extortions and blackmailing . . . The Mob is also very quick to spot new profitable opportunities in vileness and human weakness.

    • Replies: @James Kabala
  217. @NoseytheDuke

    Is commenter “NosytheDuke” the same as “NoseytheDuke”?

    If so, why the change?

    If not, why the impersonation?

  218. @CalDre

    Hey, Cal- I initially responded to you for what I perceived as a half- baked defense of A. Wiener.

    I think that we can agree that this guy is a poster child for the lack of mores and ethics in politics.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  219. @Skeptikal

    Just so it is clear to all – this logo belongs/belonged to a different pizza place down the street from Comet Ping Pong. The owner is one Abdel Hammad, who despite his obvious ethnic and religious background claims to have voted for Donald Trump! I have not heard any information one way or another about his sexual orientation.

  220. CalDre says:

    Got it. Frankly I don’t see the problem with Wiener’s actions. He sent soft porn pics to a willing 15-yo with unrestricted Internet access. As you know, any 8-yo with unrestricted internet access can trivially watch the most degenerate sexual depravity anyone has ever imagined (aside from child porn) for free in high def. Even a Google image search for “penis” (or many other terms) will reveal far more than Weiner’s (hahaha) pics did.

    Again, I would blame the parents – why did this teen have unrestricted internet access? There will always be one creep, perhaps even living in another country or on the dark web, there is no way to hold the world responsible, but in any event, you are responsible for your kids. Period.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
    , @landlubber
  221. @CalDre

    Frankly I don’t see the problem with Wiener’s actions. He sent soft porn pics to a willing 15-yo with unrestricted Internet access…

    Regardless of the “lapse” in parental supervision, Wiener violated the law in the worst possible manner- the corruption of the morals of a child.

    Matthew 18:6
    “But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

    How we treat children matters to God.

    • Replies: @BucephalusXYZ
  222. Anonymous [AKA "moviebuff"] says:

    Do bear in mind that IMDb is user-generated information. Anyone can plant a false entry. Just sayin’…

  223. @CalDre

    Stoneheads like Stonehands will never understand this. They will always find a boogieman upon which they can project their own fears and failings.

    • Replies: @Stonehands
  224. @Stonehands

    Wiener was engaged in moral corruption, by all means. I agree with the general thrust of your comment.
    But calling a 15 year old a “child” is simply misleading, and wrong. Legally, she may be a child. But even if Anthony Wiener deserves the bulk of the blame, I find grounds to criticize both her and her parents.
    Sending “soft porn” to a 15 year old is not remotely as bad as sending “soft porn” to an 8 year old, and even that is not as bad as some other things that humans actually do. (It is still very bad, but facts matter.)

    Sentimentalizing the innocence of teenagers does not help them in developing a conscience.

    That said, I really do agree with your overall point.

  225. @landlubber

    And you just keep whistling past the graveyard as our nation collapses into a homo/pedo dung heap.

  226. Erebus says:

    Does anyone else get the feeling that the overt promotion of LGBT lifestyles is the thin edge of a social engineering wedge which will eventually widen to include paedophilia? I do, and one also gets the feeling that Pizzagate may become the anvil on which the limits to the whole “Sexual Lifestyles” meme are forged.

    I also wish to join those above in saluting Mr. Unz.
    My hat is off to you, Mr. Unz for giving space to this subject on your website.
    If the Donald ever gets to really draining the swamp, he’ll find some pretty vile creatures dwelling in the bottom ooze. Exposing them in public trial would be even better than a Truth Commission .

    The prosecutor should demand a life sentence. Over time, say 30 minutes, sharing a cell with a couple of 300lb Lifers should lern-em-a-lesn about victimhood.

    • Agree: Stonehands
  227. jtgw says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    No, they’re just two Northern European cities with large, unassimilated Muslim populations and similar Germanic names.

  228. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    There is a rather informative article in the WaPo about Pizzagate and its potential (mass-)psychological origins. It actually indirectly and temporarily “blames” over-zealous feminists with being the originators of the this moral panic. Quite interesting, but of course the article/author reverts back to Trump-bashing, etc. in the end.

    What the Pizzagate conspiracy theory borrows from a bogus satanic sex panic of the 1980s

    Second, in both cases, social movements were involved in the weaponization of suspicion, although the political center of gravity has shifted from one episode to the next. In the late 1970s, social workers and feminist activists had focused on combating child sexual abuse; they sometimes developed extremely broad definitions of abuse or floated exaggerated estimates of its occurrence in this quest. Such efforts have left deep cultural residues, and these include the acceptance of exaggerated claims about the number of child trafficking victims, and the incidence and forms of organized child sexual abuse. Pizzagate relies on these inflated fears to seem plausible, and it similarly relies on a viewpoint marked by extreme suspicion (of the media, Washington “elites,” politicians and the Clinton camp specifically) to decode ordinary events and statements into extraordinary claims.

    A moral panic is a feeling of fear spread among a large number of people that some evil threatens the well-being of society.[1][2] A Dictionary of Sociology defines a moral panic as “the process of arousing social concern over an issue – usually the work of moral entrepreneurs and the mass media.”[3]

    I had never come across the term “moral entrepreneur” before, very useful term…

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @NoseytheDuke
  229. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    One of the pieces of evidence in the Pizzagate scandal, which threw me for a loop, was Andrew Breitbart’s tweet from 2011 about John Podesta. I did not understand its original/proper context, and so I interpreted it to be a very credible piece of evidence, which it is not really, as I found out.

    I think what we are witnessing in the case of Pizzagate is a collaboration of right-wing “moral entrepreneurs” (with whom I had not been that familiar with before, and who most likely and ironically were empowered and inspired by feminist, left-wing moral entrepreneurs’ trumped-up claims about child sexual abuse) and right-wing “conspiracy entrepreneurs ” ( e.g. et al., with whom I am personally very familiar with).

    This very good article puts Andrew Breitbart’s tweet about John Podesta in perspective and in its proper context:

    About that Podesta ‘underage sex-slaves’ Tweet from Andrew Breitbart

    Nefarious operators on the Internet (as well as some innocent, misinformed individuals) have been freaking out over a Tweet from the late Andrew Breitbart connecting John Podesta to a “underage sex slave” operation.

    How prog-guru John Podesta isn’t household name as world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs escapes me.

    — AndrewBreitbart (@AndrewBreitbart) February 4, 2011


    There are tons of websites who make a lot of money doing pretty odious things. […]

    However, because of the confusion over this Tweet, I think some context and an explanation is called for. And, for some reason, Breitbart News has not stepped up and delivered it themselves. (I searched, if they have, I will update this column post haste.) […]

    Andrew was tweaking the media for giving Podesta a pass and celebrating the man who Andrew saw as his bete noir.

    And one of the most outrageous things Podesta did to Andrew, that the media never scrutinized, was his white-washing of the ACORN scandal.

    In other words, from Andrew’s perspective, Podesta was a “world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs .”

    That’s what the Tweet means, and anyone who tells you otherwise is up to something.

    I am still sitting on the fence about Pizzagate, but one thing is crystal clear to me, and that is, that if “moral entrepreneurs” and “conspiracy entrepreneurs”, be they of the right-wing or left-wing persuasion, get involved in debates and investigations, these usually turn irrational, disingenuous, and hysterical fast.

    Talking about hysteria… some more background on Tony Podesta’s now-infamous Arch of Hysteria sculpture:

    According to Bourgeois, the work’s name and inspiration is a reference to a classic view of “hysteria,” a traditionally female malady as it was originally linked to premenstrual syndrome.[2] An 1824 engraving by Charles Bell provides one illustration using a male.[3] However, there is one key difference between Bourgeois’ work and all other portrayals of “hysteria” – no other portrayal has the subject’s head severed. […]

    Arch of Hysteria was first released in 1993. Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested on July 22, 1991.[4] On February 15, 1992, his first trial concluded.[5] The Polaroid photos he took of his victims provided key evidence against him in his criminal trial. The adjoining photo is one of 74 others.[6]

  230. BB753 says:

    If the Podestas are innocent, why do they keep quiet and don’t sue?

  231. @FKA Max

    We know all about “Hysteria”, but why did the artist use a decapitated male if not to possibly conflate this in the viewers mind with the atrocities of Dalmer?

    What about the other degenerate art, such as the child bondage spankees posing in the easy- to -clean tiled torture chambers?

    Some of us will never accept homosexuality as an “alternative” lifestyle.

    The fact that Alefantis is a homo; who by dint of his perverse sexuality- has achieved some level of notoriety prior to pizzagate- is certainly part of the underlying rancor towards him.

  232. Skeptikal says:
    @FKA Max

    What does the sculpture in questin have to do with a woman’s body?
    No breasts, etc.
    There is smoke in the Pizzagate story, and a lot of pepole are throwing up dust, much of it of an ad hominam nature, to try to dissipate the smoke.
    Forget who is saying this and that and how they self-identify, etc. Breitbart has nothing obvious to do with this. Stop looking at the tch-tching in the MSM about hysterical bloggers, etc. Irrelevant.

    Look at the evidence, look at the emails, and find out WFT they mean and their authors were talking about, or what they assert that they are talking about.
    \$65,000 for pizzas and hotdogs from Chicago? Let’s start there. What is that about?

    • Replies: @Zippy
  233. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    This clip of Brietbart going off on John Podesta seemed to me more than just a political squabble.

    Keep in mind, this was years before the Wikileaks ‘Pizza’ stuff. Also keep in mind that Breitbard dropped dead shortly after this was filmed.

  234. @FKA Max

    Incredibly generous of you to quote WaPo as a credible source. I would have done the same at one time but that was ages ago.

    BB753 asks why haven’t the Posdestas sued? I would ask why haven’t they at the very least stepped forward to offer a simple explanation for what most agree is code in the emails?

    I would suggest a possibility that blowing the lid off on this exposes exactly how certain “lobby” groups maintain control of the wheelhouse of the US ship of state, and have consistently steered it into troubled waters against the national interest.

    Wiz, a simple typo that my computer ran with (very observant of you).

  235. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Pizzagate is not “fake news” at all. It needs to be investigated.

    The MSM says it does not disseminate “fake news”. However, the MSM will often simply not cover events that ARE real news.

    Thus, the MSM is disseminating the opposite of “fake news”, namely NO NEWS. The MSM keeps people in the dark because there things that it does not want people to know about. For example, the MSM will often not cover stories about how the LGBTQ movement is brainwashing kids in even the lowest grade in public elementary schools. That’s because the MSM does not want people to become upset at the penetration (no pun intended) of the LGBTQ agenda.

    In reality, there is relatively little “fake news” out there. Most alternative websites that people visit, such as Unz, simply provide a different perspective on issues that the MSM won’t cover at all, or cover in a cursory manner.

  236. Skeptikal says:

    And the “fake news” trope is an excellent example of misdirection/laying a false trail.

  237. @James Kabala

    Whether the FBI document is genuine or not, it was all over the internet 7 years ago. Slate or Salon even did an on-line essay on it. Some of these symbols have been identified as codes for pedophilia for a long time now.

    That nine years later these symbols spontaneously appear all over the logos, ads, and internal decoration of pizzerias forming a geographical cluster in DC is a striking coincidence; made more poignant because some of the more prominent clients of these pizzerias have been dogged by rumors of sado-sexual activities involving children for many years.

    It’s also striking how quickly all the pedophile cant, symbols and imagery was removed from all these locations immediately after the pizzagate scandal began getting traction, and how shortly after this the MSM launched a concerted effort to label the story as a loony-toon conspiracy theory, while at the same time many internet sites began purging their archives of related material and denying access to those who wished to explore the scandal further.

  238. @utu

    All “the Podesta brothers were in Portugal on 3 May 2007” stories ultimately trace back to a post by one Victurus Libertas who claims to have been given this information by an anonymous FBI informant. It’s nonsense like this that the MSM and others use to discredit what I now believe is a major scandal involving unspeakably evil crimes. Just post verifiable info with solid sources or at least admit you are dealing in unconfirmed rumors or speculation. You hurt the cause by doing otherwise.

  239. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Classic disinfo technique, to seed the truth with a few lies that are provably false so that then the whole thing can be claimed to be false and written off.

    I don’t know about the Podestas but as others here have rightly stated, there’s enough smoke for a thorough, open investigation.

    Coincidently, the anti-Russian rhetoric has escalated to an even more absurd degree alongside the Pizzagate news. I wonder if the result will be even less people believing the blatant lies of mass media or if people will just demonstrate that there are no limits to gullibility.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  240. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I saw a headline on claiming Russia was attempting to smear people by ‘planting’ child pornography on their computers.

    I didn’t bother reading it, as CNN is a Gawker level news source these days, but it seems like they may attempt to blame this stuff on Russia – along with everything else.

  241. Mark Green says: • Website

    Here’s another sex scandal (and a certifiably real one) involving a prominent Canadian who turned out to be a pedaphile. There’s a lot in this story that’s revealing and fascinating.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  242. Skeptikal says:
    @Mark Green

    Such a disturbing story. But instructive. In particular the information, or perhaps it is a speculation, that the pedophiliac sexual drive develops early on. This drive must be incredibly strong—stronger than what would be considered normal sexual desire? I don’t know. But I have read that it is so strong that pedophiles make major life choices in terms of finding a way to get access to children to use sexually. Such as marrying: so they can father their own children and have them handy for abuse. Or entering a profession, such as the priesthood, or pediatrics, or education, etc. so that they have access to children. Or becoming sports coaches, where they spend a lot of time in locker rooms and also have blandishments to offer young boys such as sports career advances. Etc.

    I think this point—the power of the drive—should be taken into account when people such as some commenters on this thread say: “These people [such as Podesta} are too intelligent to risk their careers blah blah.” If the pedophilia drive is as strong as, say, a heroin addiction, then the addiction is in the driver’s seat, not “intelligence.” The more you feed an addiction, the stronger it gets, and the more stimulation it takes to get the charge.

    As for the sprinkling of a few lies in with a story that is targeted for debunking: In a normal police investigation the police solicit leads from the public. (It is true that in this case there is not an obvious victim, so that must also be taken into account; but this was also the situation with the Ben Levin [Toronto] case; nevertheless what he did was criminal and dangerous.) They examine the leads and follow them up. This is detectives’ job.

    Often an obscure lead does lead to further useful information needed to build a hypothesis of the motive-means-opportunity for the crime and widen the scope of an investigation. Every American with a TV set has seen hundred of such police procedurals showing how crimes have been solved, often cold cases. Bona fide detectives who get leads from the public don’t immediately start to smear the source of leads as looney-tunes. In this case the public, in the face of apparent inaction by law enforcement to follow up on this case, is responding by posting ideas and hypotheses and possible leads.

    An honest law enforcement agency would be conducting an aggressive investigation and checking out any useful info and ideas that members of the public come up with, whether online or off. Honest news outlets should either be calling for a thorough investigation, or staying mum if they have been informed that an investigation is ongoing. The fact that the MSM, absent any sign of an investigation, are blaring out the “nothing here; move on; blogger are rabid fools” message is in itself suspicious and suggests that someone is being protected. The MSM have put out just enough info to warn the possible wrongdoers to get their act together, change their signage, and run for cover.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  243. utu says:

    Pizzagate= Disinfo/Distraction/Compromisation

  244. Miro23 says:

    The fact that the MSM, absent any sign of an investigation, are blaring out the “nothing here; move on; blogger are rabid fools” message is in itself suspicious and suggests that someone is being protected. The MSM have put out just enough info to warn the possible wrongdoers to get their act together, change their signage, and run for cover.

    My feeling exactly. Too much volume, no doubts, too orchestrated and nothing being investigated, in fact just like WMD, and 9/11.

  245. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Ping Pong Comet Pizza should rename itself as Suck-E-Cheese.

    Btw, more pedo stuff.

    Media seem less enthused about going after secular pedos, just like rabbi pedos got less public scrutiny than the Catholic pedo priests did.

    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
  246. I believe that Pizzagate is a Trojan Horse being pushed into Alt-Right internet circles by Hillary/Soros’ former CTR trolls in order to help the Democrats and the MSM continue to flog the “fake news” narrative. The idea behind it is to enable them to say, “Look, you see what kind of crazy conspiracies those Alt-Righters consume and repeat amongst themselves? This is the kind of fake news believing nutjobs we’re up against.” If you think back upon the history of the meme (I hate that word, but I have no other to use in its place), you’ll find that its original and most vocal proponents were exhibiting clear trolling behavior. Given their flaky commenting histories, their pretended expertise on this then-obscure topic, their ostentatious expressions of optimism that this breaking news would ensure a Trump victory (itself a rather obsequious and scarcely believable attempt to paint themselves as one of our number), and their single-minded determination to talk about (and to get us talking about) nothing else, one can only suspect the presence of some sort of agenda behind their sudden exuberance over Pizzagate.

    I believe we are up against a new and rather sophisticated sort of Concern Troll here—a veritable Stuxnet of concern trolling. A perfect example here at the Unz Review is the poster “anonguy”. Look at his commenting history. Look at the sudden acceleration of his offerings as Election Day neared. And then look at his militant megaphoning of the Pizzagate narrative all over Sailer’s blog in the days immediately preceding the election. Furthermore, pay attention to his unusual style, i.e. how he structures his comments as detached musings about the goings-on in the “infosphere” (his word), how he jejunely assures us the “the narrative is forming” (yes, he actually said that, and at a time when there was no narrative to speak of), and his links to literally fake news sites (the Denver Guardian? Give me a break). Now tell me that this is the behavior of someone who actually has the health of the body politic as his primary objective.

    Now, after having sifted all that, do try to remember that the larger general public really doesn’t know or care anything at all about Pizzagate, and that the leaked Podesta emails (all 37,000 of them, or whatever the final tally was) influenced the vote of precisely no one who did not have the time or inclination to read through them all, which is practically every one of us. Remember that the only people talking about this in the first place are the Alt-Right bloggers and their followers, the very venues of “fake news” whom the Left is attempting to discredit and sully. Remember that the Clintons and Soros specialize in public deception and that they employ all sorts of people for that very purpose. Now consider who is rendered vulnerable by all of this. It isn’t going to be the Clintons or Podesta. If Hillary Clinton was not prosecuted for trafficking in state secrets from her private server—a crime for which she should have been executed— then Podesta is not going to be investigated for this. But you all, on the other hand, have been tainted with it. You have been successfully associated in the public mind with a “conspiracy theory,” with the “fake news.”

    My conclusion: Pizzagate is a “thought worm” designed to infect, distract, and destroy the Alt-Right, and most of you have been infected with it. This is not to say that there is no pedophilia going on in Podesta’s circle. There may be or there may not be, I really don’t know. The point is that there isn’t anything you can do about it. The accusations will be turned against the accusers instead—classic Clinton behavior. It would be better not to take the bait anymore. Recent history has demonstrated over and over again that the public is not going to rise up with one voice and clamor for the punishment even of credibly accused child molesters unless there is something more to be gained from doing so, and in this case there clearly isn’t. What this says about the spiritual state of the modern West or the psychology of fallen mankind are subjects I will leave for another discussion. For now it is simply a fact of life with which we have to account. The only way to beat these people is the Chicago Way: hit them harder than they hit you. We dealt them a stunning blow by electing Donald Trump, but now we are in danger of losing our advantage by immersing ourselves in a mire of toothless recriminations, and this is exactly what they want. Let’s not fall for this again; let us rather rekindle the spirit that got us this far, and take these vile people down once and for all.

  247. robt says:

    The Washington Post found the funds to assign 27 investigative reporters for over a year to dig dirt on Trump, and bragged about it. Judging by what they came up with, it wasn’t too fruitful.

  248. map says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Your comment is ridiculous.

    First you say the entire pizzagate meme is fake and it’s fakery will undo the alt-right. Then you say that you can’t do anything about pedophilia anyway, pizzagate or otherwise.

    Which is it? Is the story fake and thereby discrediting to those who support it, or is it real but pointless to cover because you can’t do anything about it?

    Then you suggest we do this “the Chicago way” which is hitting harder than them…whatever that means. If you are not going to open investigations against these people, then what does “hitting harder” entail?

    There is no way that Soros or anyone else is going to construct an elaborate criminal conspiracy out of whole cloth and tag one of his own loyal operatives.

  249. Skeptikal says:

    I agree.
    Intelligent’s comment looks to me like an elaborate misdirection.
    All such blah blah gets no one any closer to an answer as to what is behind the coded language in the Wikileaks emails.

    It is a classic example of throwing up a convolution of dust to obscure the smoking emails.
    Stick to the evidence.
    Ignore irrelevant baroque musings.

  250. @map

    Totally agree. This dasein guy (and others here, like wizard of oz or whatever) has a consistent pattern of warning us what topics we need to steer clear of, as if mainstream respectability is the primary objective. Ironic that his shtick here focuses on “concern trolling”. An obvious fake/plant.

  251. @Intelligent Dasein

    You make some good points but have missed the real issue entirely. Whilst I and many others here DO care about pedos and want them locked away from society, what makes this matter much more important is that it involves many top level power brokers in politics.

    Pedophilia is more of a compulsion rather than addiction, why matters less than the fact that recidivism is the norm and society deserves protection both from the crime itself and from the crimes of blackmail that can result from knowledge of it..

    Blackmail is a very powerful tool in the work of pure evil and is the reason why even Marines and Embassy guards have restrictions on who they may or may not consort with whilst on active foreign postings. I would estimate that there is no greater threat of exposure than one of sexually exploiting children. Even hardened criminals have contempt for such perverts who are usually granted special protection when incarcerated.

    I would venture the suggestion that people with a compulsion towards sexual contact with children are identified early in their careers and consequently put forward for rapid progress within government institutions by those working behind the scene to exercise control over others with decision making capacity in the highest levels of government.

    This is not a matter to be swept away if the swamp is to be drained, rather, this may well be where the “plughole” to the swamp itself is to be uncovered. It will require a special investigation team but not one like the Warren Commission or 9/11 “Investigation”, a real investigation. Americans should settle for nothing less and it is incumbent of them to demand it.

    • Agree: Miro23
  252. @NoseytheDuke

    There is another saying: There is no greater joy than a fat young boy.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  253. Erebus says:

    This is not a matter to be swept away if the swamp is to be drained, rather, this may well be where the “plughole” to the swamp itself is to be uncovered.

    I’m willing to believe something pretty sordid is required to keep the bung hole as tightly plugged as it is and I can’t imagine anything else creating a more tightly woven, impenetrable web of mutual blackmail. Imagine what they have on each other, and imagine what foreign intelligence services could do with same if they got hold of it. Come to think of it, maybe they have…

    America must get to the bung, dislodge it and deal with the stench that will cover the country for a generation. Until then, America can’t hope to be great again.

  254. Skeptikal says:

    This makes a lot of sense.
    That string pullers are on the lookout for rising political stars who can be compromised along the way.
    Hmmmmm . . .
    Seems like a lot of political families have dynastic aspirations. That would mean that such offspring might be natural targets for monitoring for any “quirks.”

  255. Rosie says:

    The NYT’s excuse for the authorities’ failure to arrest and interrogate the Podesta brothers in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is that one or more witnesses said the kidnappers looked to be between 20 and 40. Perhaps they have used the same plastic surgeon as 70-year-old Marina Abramovic?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @utu
    , @Skeptikal
  256. Skeptikal says:

    Huh, I didn’t realize the NYT had gotten so far as to purvey an excuse for not arresting and interrogating the Podesta brothers. I mean, this informs the public that “authorities” considered doing so. For some reason . . .what reason. . .?

    This sounds as though things broke through pretty far . . . doesn’t it? Otherwise why would the authorities make such an excuse? I mean, it sounds sort of *big* to me. “Podesta Brothers Under Suspicion in Portugal Abduction” I didn’t see that headline.

  257. utu says:

    Provide link to NYT! Otherwise, Rosie, you are just the disinfo agent.

  258. @Tabasco Jack

    That one is neither clear from the mountain or from the plain, is it your own?

  259. Rosie says:

    I don’t know how to do a link. Google Dissecting the #pizzagate Conspiracy Theories

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  260. Rosie says:

    BTW there is nothing in the article to suggest any consideration of investigating the Podesta brothers. I just thought that was the whole purpose of these efit sketches! Wouldn’t a match be probable cause?

  261. @Rosie

    Why wouldn’t one simply google Dissecting Pizzagate instead of what you suggested? The adding of Conspiracy Theories would suggest a request to search for speculation, disinfo, misinfo and a general mishmash of confusion written by whack jobs. Alternative theories is worth a try.

    NYT is hardly a reliable source either, is it? Quite the opposite, I would venture. They are more likely to throw up all sorts of misdirection and fakery. Time to dismiss the NYT to a place of irrelevance methinks.

    Google cut and pasting links while you’re at it ;o)


  262. Skeptikal says:

    “The NYT’s excuse for the authorities’ failure to arrest and interrogate the Podesta brothers in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is that one or more witnesses said the kidnappers looked to be between 20 and 40.”

    Rosie here asserts that he/she has seen a NYT story in which this excuse is stated.
    Apparently rosie’s post is a total fabrication.

    • Replies: @anon
  263. anon • Disclaimer says:

    She has, she just doesn’t know how copy/paste works.

    Here it is: .

    It’s standard NYT, of course.


    Why wouldn’t one simply google Dissecting Pizzagate instead of what you suggested?

    Because that’s the article title.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  264. @anon

    Thanks for setting me straight. I understand Rosie was probably saying “look at the crap the NYT is feeding the sheeple, again”, I’m glad I was courteous to Rosie though my preferred response would be to ignore the NYT to a point of its irrelevance.

    I would further wish for people to contact NYT advertisers and tell them that they are risking boycotts by funding a company that aids and abets terrorism and even participated in the cover-up of 9/11.

    A pox on the NYT and all who work there and purchase it. Wake up, America, this lying rag needs to die!

  265. FKA Max says:

    I agree, this is probably the most important takeaway from this entire situation/scandal:

    I would venture the suggestion that people with a compulsion towards sexual contact with children are identified early in their careers and consequently put forward for rapid progress within government institutions by those working behind the scene to exercise control over others with decision making capacity in the highest levels of government. [emphasis added]

    Besides being attracted to teenage girls himself, Jeffrey Epstein also allegedly tried to do exactly that:

    Papers filed in 2006 alleged that Epstein installed concealed cameras in numerous places on his property to record sexual activity with underage girls by prominent people for criminal purposes such as blackmail.[21]

    This could also possibly explain Vladimir Putin’s meteoric rise in politics, etc. But it appears, that he was smart enough to get rid of any incriminating evidence against himself. This Daily Beast article could be anti-Putin propaganda, but seems like a plausible explanation why Putin had such deep-seated animosity towards Alexander Litvinenko, and wanted to get rid of him:

    “There was undoubtedly a personal dimension to the antagonism between Mr. Litvinenko on the one hand and President Putin on the other,” he wrote in his report. “Mr. Litvinenko made repeated highly personal attacks on President Putin culminating in the allegation of pedophillia in July 2006.”

    The claim was made in an article on the Chechen separatist website Chechenpress shortly after Putin was filmed lifting the T-shirt and kissing the stomach of a young boy at the Kremlin.

    Litvinenko claimed this display of affection was the first public sign of a secret that had long been known by some within the KGB. He said Putin had been denied a place in the foreign intelligence division as a young recruit “because, shortly before his graduation, his bosses learned that Putin was a pedophile.”

    “Many years later, when Putin became the FSB director and was preparing for the presidency, he began to seek and destroy any compromising materials,” Litvinenko wrote. “Among other things, Putin found videotapes in the FSB Internal Security directorate, which showed him making sex with some underage boys.”

    Thursday’s announcement has been 10 years in the making. The British government rebuffed Marina Litvinenko’s pleas for an inquiry into her husband’s assassination for eight years because diplomats feared that London’s improving relationship with Moscow would be severely damaged.

    A secret letter written to Owen by the Home Secretary Theresa May in 2013 explained why no inquest had been allowed. “It is true that international relations have been a factor in the government’s decision-making,” she admitted.

    The government would change its mind a year later, when Russia’s conflict with Ukraine and the shooting down of passenger jet MH17 ended diplomatic niceties.

  266. Max Payne says:

    Gods chosen people and pedophilia goes hand in hand. This is as common knowledge as the Afghani tribes that practice man-boy love.

    It’s just part of their culture/religion/talmud/whatever.

    Why you gotta be anti-Semitic? Just accept other peoples culture man.

  267. @Intelligent Dasein

    Given that CTR chief David Brock is the former lover of James Alefantis (of Comet Ping Pong), I suppose that even if Brock is inclined towards extravagent lovers’ quarrels, he’d be astute enough to be worried about blowback. I’ll give Brock this: he doesn’t seem like a completely stupid guy.
    In any case, pizzagate seems to have arisen, as a phenomenon, from the combo of the Podesta wikileaks release and the Comey announcement of the inquiry into Weiner’s emails. This combo was hardly something orchestrated by the Hillary camp.

    I think you make a very good point about Hillary though:she seems to have very clearly violated serious laws (and her actions have quite plausibly led to deaths). If she is not going to be prosecuted or even investigated, how can we expect substantive investigations when the pizzagate evidence, as I read it, is mainly circumstantial and revelatory of mindset?

    • Replies: @Rosie
  268. Rosie says:

    I continue to be astounded that the efit sketches matching not just one but both podesta brothers are casually dismissed as “circumstantial”.
    Either there is probable cause to arrest or there is not. If there is not probable cause to arrest, then what would be? If there is probable cause to arrest, but the relevant law enforcement agencies have not done so, then that is an outrageous scandal quite apart from the question of whether the brothers are involved or not. At worst, they are deliberately protecting a major power broker accused of a heinous crime. At best they just don’t care about that little girl or any number of other victims. The scandal is in the handling of the public’s concerns, and #pizzagate is therefore very real news indeed whatever the real truth of the matter.

    • Replies: @BucephalusXYZ
  269. Rosie says:

    BTW the obscene art, satanic rituals, and creepy emails must now be looked in the light of those efit sketches. Alefantis is another matter, but even here, CPP is fair game. Imagine a pizza shop owner with swastikas on the kitchen wall, for heaven’s sake. Proof of actually cooking Jews in an oven would not be required for the media to cover this hypothetical pizzeria owner. The affront to community standards of decency would be enough to demand a grovelling apology followed by aruined business despite said apology. Amiright?

  270. Miro23 says:

    Looking around at all this, someone made a private recording at Comet Ping Pong that’s worth hearing:

  271. Rosie says:

    So we are left with a legacy media so outrageously arrogant they feel no obligation to respond to public concerns. Rather their role is to serve the governing class. In other words, fake news. Again, this conclusion is justified just based on the indisputable facts of the matter. Why have a media at all?

  272. Anonymous [AKA "Turkyshoes"] says:

    Except when asked about the jackel epstein, trump said “he is an evil, evil man.”

  273. Ace says:

    Possibly one of the stupidest comments I’ve read in a long time. And that’s saying something.

  274. Ace says:

    That is one diseased mind in that “comedian.”

  275. Ace says:
    @jacques sheete

    Craig Spence’s call boy business in Washington clearly involved high civilian and military officials. And Spence was able to take friends on midnight tours of the White House.

    Spence’s house was provided by the Japanese ruling party. The house they provided him had at least one bedroom wired for audio and video. I’m sure the Japanese didn’t know that.

    The Washington Times covered it for two or three weeks and it was never mentioned again.

    Kids from Boys Town in Nebraska were allegedly used.

    Unpack that and hope your hair doesn’t turn white.

  276. @Rosie

    Those drawings do look like the Podesta brothers. Can anyone here explain, citing facts, the provenance of those “efits”, and how they came to be incorporated into the pizzagate phenomenon?

    • Replies: @Anon
  277. Anonymous [AKA "antigad"] says:

    the one email that got me, and still does get me is this:

    “Ps. Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?”

    I can’t explain this even with the context. So, at the very least, code-speak is involved. Based on the words here, and those familiar with the ‘dark’ or ‘deep’ web vernacular, they imply ‘domination’ ‘little girl’ and ‘little boy’

    “Ps. Do you think I’ll dominate a little girl better than a little boy?”

    Now, given that decoding – read the rest of the email and see what you think it means.

    • Replies: @Anon
  278. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The provenance is given, with what seems to be reliable corroboration, in comment #34.

    How this got involved in Pizzagate is a mystery to me. I find the resemblance disturbingly striking, and so, probably, did whoever first made the connection. The information about the Podestas’ whereabouts at the time seems a lot more dubious. A real investigation would clear things up nicely, but it does not seem likely that one will be made.

  279. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Not going to argue that this is the correct interpretation, but it can certainly be interpreted innocuously:

    “Since we’re going to play later, I wonder if I will play dominoes better, having eaten cheese, than after my usual meal of pasta”.

    That said, the email in context still seems very much off.

    On the other hand, it seems rather odd that these people would use such an elaborate code in supposedly private communications, especially when the code itself is fairly well-known and not at all secure.

    On the gripping hand, pedophilia is a tremendous charge and a great risk if discovered, so perhaps practitioners practice paranoid obfuscation as a matter of course. And the code doesn’t need to be secure because it only exists as a last-ditch measure for deniability purposes.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @RobinG
  280. @Anon

    ‘but it can certainly be interpreted innocuously:’

    “Since we’re going to play later, I wonder if I will play dominoes better, having eaten cheese, than after my usual meal of pasta”.

    I strenuously disagree. That interpretation is a stretch beyond belief and contrary to what you have written, the code itself is not well known, only that it is indeed some sort of code is generally accepted.

    I’m not one to argue for giving suspected pedophiles the benefit of the doubt nor should anyone else. Nobody is suggesting a rush to judgement here but clearly a prompt and thorough investigation is called for especially given the supporting evidence, as other commenters have pointed out.

    Was it Jesus who said, “Cursed be the excuse-makers”?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  281. Skeptikal says:

    “Nobody is suggesting a rush to judgement here but clearly a prompt and thorough investigation is called for especially given the supporting evidence, as other commenters have pointed out.”

    If the putative “circumstantial evidence” that Russia—no! Putin himself!!—interfered in the American election suffices to launch the CIA on a nutty investigation whose purpose is, obviously, to “prove” that this is the case to the satisfaction of enough electors for them to become “faithless,” then I think the Pizzagate emails plus “circumstantial” Pizzagate evidence are by comparison much more compelling and really scream for an investigation. In the Pizzagate case the investigating agency would presumably be the FBI. Which *might* be grounds to expect a genuine investigation.

    No reasonable person would think that the emails really are about Podesta’s playing dominos and having cheese for dinner. quite apart from the fact that cheese is usually mixed in with pasta!! 😉 Come on. I bet Podesta doesn’t know how to play the game of dominos. What are these people really emailing about?

    • Replies: @anon
  282. RobinG says:

    I’d like to protest this pedestrian ramble getting a gold border, if that’s supposed to be an honor. For one thing, “supposedly private communications” is ridiculous. No emails are really private, and everybody knows it. And I second Nosey and Skeptikal.

  283. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Well, the email in question concerned (ostensibly) the receipt of a box of expensive cheeses as a Christmas gift, whereas some sort of pasta meal with expensive sauces was the usual gift. The comment (in the email, not yours) would be exquisitely stupid, but not so far-fetched as to be incapable of being interpreted in a mundane way.

    Was it Jesus who said, “Cursed be the excuse-makers”?

    No. There’s a reason the church always had an advocatus diaboli. I want an investigation too. That is no reason to lose all semblance of objectivity.

    I don’t know if an investigation would be honest. Even if not, it would force these issues into the light, where they belong.

    Is there enough money and talent (at investigative reportage) in the alt-media to look into the matter in some way? I don’t know much about detection but this would seem an excellent idea.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  284. dahoit says:

    What I find interesting is that this story has disappeared.Why would they disappear a story that backs their fake news garbage?
    It must be true.

  285. I suppose if I’d played dominoes poorly previously when I had received pasta as a gift would I wonder now if the new gift of cheese would lift my game? Possibly, but still a stretch especially when we’re discussing one segment of just one email that is part of a web of thousands of emails. I eagerly await your further “innocuous interpretations” of more of the contents of those emails.

    Here’s a thought… It’s code for something, but what exactly?

    The emails need to be investigated and analysed in their entirety. Maybe under RICO even?

    Good, decent people honour their responsibility to protect children without exception or it is not a a worthwhile society.

    Elected representatives also need protection from threats, intimidation, blackmail, bribery and corruption or it is neither a just nor sustainable society.

    Why aren’t the people named in Pizzagate coming forward voluntarily, screaming their innocence and assisting in the clearing of their names? I would, wouldn’t you?

    If it quacks like a duck….

    Duck investigators required immediately!

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
  286. BB753 says:

    The Podestas’ silence about the leaks seems pretty damning in itself. Silence is an admission of guilt.

  287. Skeptikal says:

    Certainly there must be such a thing as a private investigation.
    Is this what the rich do to protect themselves—kind of inside out?
    And blackmailers? There are people out there who do this hound-dog sniffing for hire.

  288. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I honestly wouldn’t think the US government is a giant Satanist cult (or otherwise), but at this point, I honestly don’t know. I think it should be noted that South Korea was indeed ruled by a cult, which may or may not have sunk a ferry to perform human sacrifice. The idea of advanced countries being ruled by cults doesn’t seem all that farfetched after what happened in Korea.

  289. Not one person on this thread has suggested that the US government is a giant Satanist cult so what are you ranting on about? What exactly has South Korea got to do with Pizzagate?

    These comment threads are generally about what is written in the preceding article or for responding to another commenter but your creative contribution appears to be neither.

    Comments like yours give Anonymous a bad name.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  290. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Use your epic investigation skills to do a control-F and see the references to Satanism in the comments. Or for that matter, watch the video, where Satanism is clearly referenced. Comments like yours give yourself a bad name.

    What does South Korea have to do with this you ask? My point is going down the rabbit hole is a pretty daunting task, but if you look at how some ridiculous conspiracies turned out to be real, the most recent one being South Korea being heavily controlled by a cult, a lot of conspiracy theories don’t seem so ridiculous anymore.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  291. Rosie says:

    It looks like Rudy Giuliani tweeted that pizzagate is real, though he may have included a YouTube vid with fake info. Is this real or is someone else just using his name?

  292. @Anonymous

    Referencing Satanism is not the same thing as suggesting that the US government is a giant Satanist cult. I can see why you’d want to stick to using Anonymous though.

  293. Rosie says:

    Nevermind, its “unverified” and probably fake.

  294. Wow at the stupidity in these comments.

    You guys want an investigation based on some code you can’t even decipher and a pedophile symbol used by a place 3 doors down from the place where you say the pedophiles are. And this doesn’t seem moronic to you?

    And of course that one email that mentions kids names doesn’t use code because…???

    You fucking losers are accusing real people of being child predators with nothing but your own noxious paranoia as evidence.


    • Replies: @Rosie
  295. Eagle Eye says:

    For U.S. readers to gauge whether something like this COULD be happening in an advanced country, look to other countries where such incidents ARE known to have happened.

    In Belgium, the Marc DUTROUX scandal led to political consequences and appears to be ongoing.

    In the UK, the claims against Ted Heath and Cyril Smith (see picture of both in article linked below) are broadly seen as having at least some factual basis, and were reported in a number of newspapers including the Independent, the Guardian and the Daily Mail (see link below). Other names were rumored about.

    There were also years of investigations and cover-ups involving various orphanages such as KINCORA (in Northern Ireland) and HAUTE GARENNE (on the Isle of Jersey). Both were conveniently located in somewhat remote locations outside the direct reach of English law.

    There were also extensive rumors regarding several locations in London. Investigations were accompanied by the usual fortuitous deaths of potential witnesses, mysterious disappearance of documents, etc.

  296. Rosie says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    So you admit Besta pizza used a pedophile symbol. Don’t you think it’s strange that the premises have not been searched so the public can be reassured that children are not in danger? Or at the very least, no reporter has even confronted the owner about it?

  297. @Rosie

    The corporal is just trying to shut down discussion for whatever reason and is clearly not ever going to be officer material.

  298. @Rosie

    Google “spiral triangle.” It’s a common symbol. It’s not evidence of anything…to people who can think.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Rosie
  299. @Corporal Clegg

    Very “good” of you to focus on one sole point on which to base your argument that “it’s not evidence of anything” however, when all of the points are taken together and combined with all of the facts there exists the possibility of grave crimes against children involving some very high placed officials. More reasonable minds would conclude that there should at least be a very thorough investigation. This has not happened and already Big Media has moved on.

    Your thoughtless and profane posts are hardly convincing of anything other than of your own lowly status.

  300. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    Mr. Cassiel concludes his 3-part series of Pizzagate articles:

    Precedents for Pizzagate
    Aedon Cassiel Published: December 23, 2016

    To reiterate a point that should be clear to the more astute reader, my goal in this series (part 1, part 2) has not been to defend “Pizzagate” as such. My goal has been to defend the people who want to investigate it against specific accusations levied against them by people who think Pizzagate has revealed no intriguing information at all—for a specific reason, which I will be honing in and focusing on much more directly in this closing entry.

    Whereas the mainstream critics of Pizzagate would have you believe that the world is divided between paranoid conspiracy theorist followers of “fake news” and level-headed people who follow trustworthy news sources and rely on cold, hard reason to determine the truth, my goal has been to show that—whatever is or is not happening with Pizzagate itself—this framing of the issue is arrogant, insulting, and the product of extremely narrow tunnel vision. […]

    And if the media is telling you only about the most bizarre, reaching accusations without telling you any of the more interesting points that have been uncovered (which it is), it is not doing its proper job.”

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  301. Rosie says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    You are a simpleton who cannot distinguish proof and evidence. Evidence is relevant if it has “any tendency to make a fact of consequence more or less probable” according to the federal rules of evidence. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard at trial. Only probable cause is necessary for search/arrest warrants.

    Now Corporal tell me do you think it is just a coincidence that efit sketches of Madeleine McCanns abuctor look just like the Podesta brothers? Is that also “not evidence of anything?

  302. @FKA Max

    A truly outstanding article on many levels, thank you for posting it.

    I’m fond of saying that if you’re not a conspiracy theorist then you must be a coincidence theorist. The many mentions of one Mark Thompson is definitely one for the coincidence theorists. Thanks again.

    I’m hoping Corporal Clegg will be able to enlist a person to read the article and explain it to him.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  303. More reasonable minds would conclude that there should at least be a very thorough investigation

    Investigate what? The “leads” show ZERO evidence of wrongdoing. And they aren’t connected at all. Besta Pizza isn’t connected to Comet by anything at all.

    The whole thing makes no sense. Thesee people are careful to use a code in emails, but post youtube videos with no code at all?

    The kicker is that 8chan is “investigating” these allegations…yet 8chan has hosted child photography for years.

    So stop listening to real perverts and stop libeling innocent people.

  304. Rosie says:

    “Coincidence theorist” —– You’re a genius, Nosey!!!!!

  305. “efit sketches of Madeleine McCanns abuctor look just like the Podesta brothers??”

    The sketches are supposed to be the same person….so, yes? The witnesses who were the source of the sketches described the man as in his mid thirties. Podesta was 57 in 2007. So the coincidences don’t go far at all.

    If you weren’t stupid you could have researched this yourself.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  306. No doubt the many “big” words contained in the article linked to by FKA Max prevented you from reading it. I did suggest that you find a person to read it to you and explain it. Had you understood what was expertly explained within it you’d know that there’s ample reason for the matter to be investigated and really, decency demands it.

    You do appear to be quite motivated to dispel any suggestion of a proper investigation and why is that? Perhaps you feel that police are better employed busting people selling “loosie” cigarettes on the street. You keep parroting that there’s no evidence but are seemingly unaware that that is the very point of conducting an investigation.

    I urge you to find a way to absorb anything that you can of Cassiel’s informative article, it might just lift you morally and also nourish your brain cell.

  307. Rosie says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    It doesn’t matter that it was “supposed” to be the same person. They are evidently two people as you can see from looking at the sketches. As I said earlier, I’m sure the Podesta brothers could afford plastic surgery. This is the type of question a real investigator would ask. Do you think people pay plastic surgeons tens of thousands of dollars to not make them look much younger than they are?

    If you weren’t stupid you could have figured this out yourself.

    Or then again maybe you’re not stupid, but rather a pervert playing the rest of us for fools.

    • Replies: @Corporal Clegg
  308. You don’t investigate and harass people because some loonies on the Internet make ludicrous accusations because people talked about pizza in emails.

    The Cassiel article you mention contains zero new evidence, only the stupid argument that since pedophile rings exist, we must investigate no matter how dumb the evidence.

    Moreover, even this article (part 1) is terrible. Just a few of Cassiels many errors:

    1. The link supposedly linking Aran Rao to Comets Instagram has this disclaimer:

    “Editor’s note: You are viewing Morning News USA’s Debunked section. This section contains news that we have investigated and uncovered to be fake news, satire news, hoaxes and urban legends.”

    So EVEN HIS SOURCE acknowledges that it is Bullshit.

    2. Cassiel states that Besta Pizza “is owned by Andrew Kline.” Again, his own source contradicts this claim.

    3. Cassiel dishonestly claims that the Clinton campaign “covered up” Anthony Wieners texting, but clearly the leaked emails in question were reacting to media reports of Wieners texting. How Cassiel bizarrely casts this as a “cover up” –I have no clue.

    There’s more nonsense, but you get the idea. Sloppy research, unsourced gossip and straight up lies–that’s pizzagate. And Cassiel spreads the lies without a thought. Pathetic.

  309. @Rosie

    “It doesn’t matter that it was “supposed” to be the same person. They are evidently two people as you can see from looking at the sketches.”

    What? The sketches came from a couple who were together and saw the same person. One person. It literally CANNOT be two different people.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  310. Rosie says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    No dice, pervert. They may have each only seen one person and believed they saw the same person, but the efit sketches themselves leave no reasonable doubt that the witnesses in fact saw two different perps.

  311. The two witnesses were TOGETHER at the time they saw the suspect, stupid. They separated them and built sketches from their descriptions.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  312. Skeptikal says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    Where is it stated that the two witnesses were together when they saw the man?
    At the link below it says that police released two efits of a man. Police did not state that the witnesses were together when they saw this man or two versions of the same man or two different men”
    Police have issued two efits that they believe are descriptions of the same man, who is now being sought as a priority by the British detectives leading the new McCann inquiry.”

    I believe in such cases the witnesses work together with the sketch artist to develop one likeness of the person to be searched for. The evofit website mentions construction *a* sketch from multiple witnesses:
    “following construction of a criminal face image by witnesses and victims.”

    The two pictures would be of little use to the public searching for one potential perp. One man has a pronounced triangular face, the other a pronounced square face. These are the types of basic features that suggest two separate men.
    Aside from the face shape, the two men do look quite a lot alike in some of their other features—kind of like brothers . . . ?

    So, I am curious as to where it is stated that the sources of the two efits were together and they provided separate descriptions. That doesn’t sound like the standard Efit procedure.

    • Replies: @Corporal Clegg
  313. @Skeptikal

    “Mr Smith was with his wife, daughter, son, daughter-in-law and two grandchildren on the night that the three year old vanished.

    The family described the man they saw as white, with short brown hair and of average build and height, aged between 20 and 40.”

    The witnesses are definitely describing one man, not two.

    The idea that the efits are of two different men is an invention of pizzagate. It’s always been clear that this was one suspect and not two separate sittings. Even the most basic research would have proven this. But no–it was too important to baselessly smear the Podesta brothers to bother with research.

  314. Rosie says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    I haven’t read the article yet, but it doesn’t matter either way. Even in the unlikely event that the witnesses saw two different men, the fact remains that one sketch looks like Tony and the other looks like John. The police have a duty to arrest and interrogate them either way.

  315. @Corporal Clegg

    The Daily Mirror FFS! Couldn’t find a real newspaper? Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable anyway but it just goes to support various odd background evidence and suspicious goings on, which is why an investigation is required.

    You seem determined to avoid the very suggestion of an investigation even saying such a thing would amount to harassment by police. Really? Good, law abiding people are only too pleased to cooperate with police when it may lead to the solving of crimes, especially when concerning children. You take the opposite approach, why? Anything to hide?

    I assisted police after witnessing an assault not long ago and the police called me back with further questions. I was not harassed at all and was only pleased to know that the matter was being followed up. THAT IS WHAT THE POLICE ARE FOR! It is why we pay them.

    What with the reports of oddly large sums of taxpayer money being used to fly in pizza and hot dogs when everyone knows these can be purchases and provided literally anywhere at low cost is bizarre. Coupled with the very strange and code-like references to pizza and hotdogs in the emails of high-placed officials who would generally be expected to have more important matters to discuss PLUS the pedo-themed artwork, the pedo connected logos…

    The prior records of some of those involved should be enough alone to warrant an investigation based on the astronomical rates of recidivism by this sort of offender.

    There is more than enough here to warrant an investigation especially given the prior cases where this has been proven to be covered up by COINCIDENTALLY one Mark Thompson.

    Give it up Corporal, you are coming across as a pervert who seeks to aid and abet people who very likely meddle with little kids. It is not a good look and I truly hope all involved are dealt with extremely harshly.

    I would cause a pedo to suffer grief beyond their imaginings were I to ever get the opportunity to do so, that they are sick would be secondary.

    • Replies: @Corporal Clegg
  316. Skeptikal says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    ““Mr Smith was with his wife, daughter, son, daughter-in-law and two grandchildren on the night that the three year old vanished.

    The family described the man they saw as white, with short brown hair and of average build and height, aged between 20 and 40.””

    This does not sound like a process of developing an E-fit.
    The verbal description could be just about any white guy on the planet.

    How did this familiy end up providing input for two Efits that look so different?

    Nothing at all is explained by your post. In fact it sounds as though you are the one twisting yourself up like a pretzel to try to make a credible assertion that there can be no connection of either picture with either Podesta. Let’s assume that just one of the pictures is correct. Then question that Podesta. Oh, how can you tell in advance which picture is correct? You cannot. Thus, both brothers should be questioned and photos of them shown to the members of the family.

  317. @Sandy Berger's Socks

    If in fact making all the “elite” blackmailable is the object of the exercise and at the same time being blackmailable is the requisite entry ticket to the elite, then not all the people taking part in all this sinister deviancy need be actual pedophiles! Some of them could be “merely” psychopaths furthering their careers. (Not that that makes them any better.)

    If this story is what it appears to be – the tip of a very nasty and very large iceberg, then it could be the mechanism by which the “Deep State” keeps its control of the US government. That would make getting an investigation by official investigators going, very difficlt indeed.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  318. Ron Unz says:

    If in fact making all the “elite” blackmailable is the object of the exercise and at the same time being blackmailable is the requisite entry ticket to the elite, then not all the people taking part in all this sinister deviancy need be actual pedophiles! Some of them could be “merely” psychopaths furthering their careers.

    Well, I don’t really have anything to contribute to the “Pizzagate” discussion myself, except to say that some of the supposed evidence plus the behavior of the media makes me very, *very* suspicious.

    However, here’s a somewhat related paragraph from one of the articles I published a year or two ago:

    An obvious problem with installing puppet rulers is the risk that they will attempt to cut their strings, much like Putin soon outmaneuvered and exiled his oligarch patron Boris Berezovsky. One means of minimizing such risk is to select puppets who are so deeply compromised that they can never break free, knowing that the political self-destruct charges buried deep within their pasts could easily be triggered if they sought independence. I have sometimes joked with my friends that perhaps the best career move for an ambitious young politician would be to secretly commit some monstrous crime and then make sure that the hard evidence of his guilt ended up in the hands of certain powerful people, thereby assuring his rapid political rise.

  319. Zippy says:


    The \$65,000 for pizza and hot dogs from Chicago actually makes sense. Or at least it is plausible. Obama lived in Chicago for many years, and it is perfectly understandable that he would enjoy the native cuisine.

    Chicago is known for its stuffed pizza from restaurants such as Giardano’s. Chicago stuffed pizza is delicious and unrivaled elsewhere in the country. Oh they make pan pizzas elsewhere, but it’s never as good. There is a big rivalry between Chicago pizza and the thin greasy New York pizza.

    Likewise, Chicago Hot Dogs are famous (and delicious). They are Vienna Beef all-beef hot dogs, served on a lightly-steamed poppy-seed bun, with mustard, onions, bright green sweet pickle relish, a dill pickle spear, sport peppers and and celery salt. Ketchup is totally unacceptable as a condiment, and demands for ketchup have even been met with physical violence.

    Both Chicago stuffed pizza and the ingredients for Chicago hot dogs can now be purchased online and shipped to deprived regions of the United States.

    ANY President with links to Chicago would sometimes import them to DC for a White House event.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  320. Skeptikal says:

    Hmmm I do remember the pride of Chicagoans in their pan pizza.
    At the very least a huge waste of money to spend \$65,000 to send pizza and hot dogs to the White House, which could surely be whipped up by the topnotch White House cooks, who have access to all the best ingredients and cook books.
    Or the Internet: (gets 5 stars)

    Ditto the all-beef Chicago hot dogs (Vienna brand hot dogs can be ordered online, but are they really any better than Nathan’s??):

    The White House kitchen cannot handle these recipes?
    Gimme a break.

    Any public monies spent on ferrying deep-dish pizza and hot dogs around North America should be returned to the taxpayers immediately.
    Wienergate, anyone?
    BTW, Wiener just means Vienna, or Vienna style. Looks like someone “privatized” the name Vienna and made it into a trademark. A trademark sausage that Jews, too, could enjoy.

    But I digress . . .

    • Replies: @Corporal Clegg
  321. @NoseytheDuke

    The Daily Mirror FFS! Couldn’t find a real newspaper?

    Funny that you don’t question any of the far worse sources used for Cassiel’s article. Every source I’ve seen says the efits are of one suspect.

    I assisted police after witnessing an assault not long ago

    Good for you. How could Podesta “assist” the police? Who’s the victim?

    The prior records of some of those involved

    Who, specifically? Sounds like more made up garbage.

    You take the opposite approach, why? Anything to hide?

    you are coming across as a pervert who seeks to aid and abet people who very likely meddle with little kids.

    Ah, the cowardly accusations of a moron who can’t manage to support his argument with actual evidence or logical reasoning.

  322. @Skeptikal

    What with the reports of oddly large sums of taxpayer money being used to fly in pizza and hot dogs

    At the very least a huge waste of money to spend \$65,000 to send pizza and hot dogs to the White House,

    This is a great example of the stupidity of pizzagaters. The “\$65K for pizza and hotdogs” comes from some guy in an email who “thinks” Obama had them flown in for that much. Even he (the source) isn’t sure, but the conspiracy theorists treat his statement as an incontrovertible fact. And then they assert that Obama must have shipped in children because they have never heard of people bringing in food from out of state. It’s just an amazing chain of derp.

    • Replies: @RodW
    , @Eagle Eye
  323. Skeptikal says:

    Here is the email:

    From: Fred Burton [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:39 PM
    To: ‘Don Kuykendall’
    Cc: ‘Aaric Eisenstein’; ‘Darryl O’Connor’; ‘Copeland Susan’
    Subject: RE: Get ready for “Chicago Hot Dog Friday”
    I think Obama spent about \$65,000 of the tax-payers money flying in
    pizza/dogs from Chicago for a private party at the White House not long
    ago, assume we are using the same channels?
    “And then they assert that Obama must have shipped in children because they have never heard of people bringing in food from out of state. It’s just an amazing chain of derp.”

    No. Where did you see that? You are free-basing.
    Then they look at a lot of other emails in the Podesta dump and they think there are some questions here worth asking. And, as I wrote in my earlier post, at the *very least* someone should ask about the \$65,000 of taxpayers’ money. Regardless of who “the hot dogs” and the “same channels” are.

  324. No. Where did you see that? You are free-basing.

    It’s in the video at the end of Cassiel’s article. And all over any discussion of pizzagate online. Pay attention.

  325. RodW says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    Good on you for tackling this idiocy head on. It’s a thankless task.

    These loonies and kiddies don’t seem to have a clue how the media and the judiciary, or any of the rest of adult world works. Just because they haven’t seen a mainstream TV program covering Pizzagate, they assume no MSM journalist has looked at it. And when anybody points out the obvious flaws in the ‘evidence’, they jump on it and say “Aha, collusion!”, or “Why aren’t they addressing the most serious evidence?!” or some other such nonsense.

  326. Anonymous [AKA "Lord Myrt"] says:

    Very Dada of Dali, especially since posthumous profits would be of no use to him.
    Sounds like a send up of the art market.

  327. RodW says:

    In the picture of a man holding a small child, the bead necklace alludes to semen

    And the evidence for that is…?

    and Besta is also one vowel short of Bestia, “Beast.”

    It’s also one vowel in excess of Best, “best”.

    If they wanted to be thought of as “Bestia Pizza”, why wouldn’t they just call themselves that? Most people wouldn’t associate “bestia” with “beast” or satanism, so why not use ‘Bestia’, if it were actually meaningful to do so?

  328. Eagle Eye says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    Working hypothesis:

    Corporal Clegg, RodW, utu and landlubber are handles used by the same poster.

    In other words, I suspect that “Corporal Clegg” is responding to his own post here in a desperate bid to make himself look socially acceptable.

    The issue re “\$65,000 to fly in pizza” was put to professional “concern troll” and obfuscator RodW in the related “Precedents for Pizzagate” thread but he expressly declined to respond. (As another poster correctly noted, the original reference was about pizza being flown in from Chicago, not Hawaii.)

    • Replies: @Corporal Clegg
  329. @Eagle Eye

    “Working hypothesis”

    Your hypothesis is wrong and pretty dumb. Not as dumb as Pizzagate, however.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  330. Skeptikal says:
    @Corporal Clegg

    Hey, holiday is over!

    Back to work!

  331. Anonymous [AKA "I H"] says:

    Yes. It is young.

  332. Anonymous [AKA "LovesCats"] says:

    Remember how hard Penn State tried to hush up their own very-large very-long abuse scandal; they got what the abusers and coverers-up deserved… or did they?

    If I had been on a jury I would have asked for them to be out of sports for at least ten times as long as Sandusky had been abusing and the school had been ignoring it.

  333. Junior says:

    This is ALL about the child trafficing that the Clinton-Bush Foundation was doing in Haiti. It is the weakpoint in a global child trafficing network and it is why the Clinton-Bush Foundation has taken down their website and are attempting to cover up any traces of it as we speak. Trump knows.

    Anyone who believes that it is ludicrous to think that pizzerias could be used for such nefarious operations, I ‘d like to point out to you the case of “The French Connection” which later became known as “The Pizza Connection” in which a huge global network of pizzerias were being used to distribute drugs in the 1980’s.

    Anyone who believes that the pedophile code is purely circumstantial needs to take a look at the Katy Perry video “This Is How We Do” which appears to be an homage to Comet Pizza. It is absolutely rife with the code words from the Podesta emails revealed by Pizzagate. They prance around with convicted sex offender, who plea bargained out of a child porn charge, Pee-Wee Herman( ) singing about “this is how they do” and “it’s no big deal”.

    Here is a video “Kids” by the group MGMT. The quote at the beginning of the video is from the quintessential Satanist Nietzsche(“Free spirits”, by contrast to the philosophers of the past, are “investigators to the point of cruelty, with rash fingers for the ungraspable, with teeth and stomach for the most indigestible” ). The video shows them bragging about how prevalent they are through our community. The “do as thou wilt” bastards are laughing at us about how they control positions of authority like policemen(3:36 of video) and how childrens TV programs are filled with their garbage of wolves in sheeps clothing(4:24 of video). And of course the Pizza and Hot Dog symbology throughout the end which culminates with them eating the child. This trash has 77 million views on Youtube.

    Here is the video “Criminal” by Fiona Apple. It is all about placing the blame on the victim, by saying that the victim enticed the pedo scum, instead of the perpetrator. This homage to Child Porn makes great pains to highlight Pizza(:21 and :38 of the video) and tiled kill rooms with easy clean-up(:45 of the video and blood stains on carpet at :48 and :54).


    I listen to a LOT of different music. I am not religious in the least and always used to think that the religious people were over-reacting to artists trying to just be “artsy” and cutting edge, but Pizzagate has lifted the scales from my eyes that there ABSOLUTELY is a Satanic Agenda being carried out by these scum.

    Here is some more trash with them trying to normalize pedophilia and victim-blaming, the Myley Cyrus video “BB Talk”. This filthy excuse for a human being is singing about “f*uck me” while dressed up as a baby.

    Here is a video “Party” by Chris Brown with more attempts to normalize pedo behavior. In the video he wants to know where the Under Ground is to party with children at the beginning. He buys his way into the under ground and at 1:27 of the video we see that this has sexual conotations by the the masked figures from “Eyes Wide Shut” watching the partying with children from the upper area. At 2:31 of the video we see that the children are all wearing shirts with the pedo symblol of the spiral triangle. Just listen to the sexual language that they have these children all dancing around to in the video. “We know how to party” with children.

    Here is the video “Prison Sex” by Tool. This homage to pedophilia has more of the tiled kill rooms and children being kept prisoner in boxes. Their “Do unto others what has been done unto you” lyrics are a call for the cycle of pedo behavior to continue. Reading the lyrics of this song reveals all else that needs to be said about this trash.

    Here is a video by the Pizza Underground or Pizza UNDER Ground which is a group formed by Maccauley Culkin who very well may have been a victim of the same sexual predators that Elijah Wood and Corey Feldman refer to. They do all Velvet Underground covers with the words changed to Pizza related themes. For those that are unaware, The Velvet Underground based their name on a non-fiction book about the sexual underground that occurs in suburbia without anyone knowing about it ( ). It seems that with these jokes about it, they are trying to continue the cycle of pedo behavior.

    I could go on and on(as you can tell) with songs and groups who are pushing this agenda but let me finish with one of the most glaring examples. Check out Nirvana’s album “Nevermind” which goes so far as to include child pornography on the cover by featuring a naked baby submerged in water who they are fishing for with a dollar bill. The album is absolutley filled with songs and lyrics about stealing children and cannabilism.

    The song “Polly” is about the real life abduction, rape, and torture of a child named Polly which occured in Tacoma, Washington by a man named Gerald Friend ( ). Cobain is attempting to normalize this behavior in his lyrics.

    The lyrics from “In Bloom”:
    Sell the kids for food. Weather changes moods. Spring is here again. Reproductive Glands. We can have some more. Nature is a whore. Bruises on the fruit. Tender age in bloom…. But he don’t know what it means when I say “Yummmmmm”

    The lyrics from “Smells Like Teen Spirit” Cooking:
    I’m worse at what I do best and for this gift I feel blessed. Our little group has always been
    and always will until the end. And I forget just why I taste, Oh yeah, I guess it makes me smile.
    I found it hard, it’s hard to find. Oh well, whatever, nevermind

    The lyrics from “Something In The Way”(keep in mind that the cover art for this album has them fishing for a baby):
    Underneath the bridge the tarp has sprung a leak. And the animals I’ve trapped have all become my pets. And I’m living off of grass and the drippings from the ceiling. It’s ok to eat fish
    cause they don’t have any feelings

    Read the lyrics to “Drain You” about consuming babies and vacuming out their fluids to become an indebted and grateful “healthy student”.

    Also check out songs lyrics from their follow up album like “Rape Me”(which is about more victim-blaming and uses the chords from “Smells Like Teen Spirit” backwards) and “Heart Shaped Box” and bear in mind what they are singing about under the surface. Normalizing their Black Hole Sun worshiping Satanic rituals.

    • Replies: @Junior
  334. Junior says:

    The lyrics from “In Bloom”:
    Sell the kids for food. Weather changes moods. Spring is here again. Reproductive Glands. We can have some more. Nature is a whore. Bruises on the fruit. Tender age in bloom…. But he don’t know what it means when I say “Yummmmmm”

    It should be noted that there are two versions of this song. The original one has the Yummmmm heard at the end at 4:15 in this version.

  335. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    Some potential victims of James Alefantis have been identified and one gave an anonymous testimony.

    What James Alefantis allegedly did here is not illegal, but speaks volumes about his character, in my opinion, if the story indeed is true:
    It turns out that Carole’s son, who is +/-18 at this time, is also working at the restaurant. I think his name is Dylan/Dillon. He grew up without a father and turned to James Alefantis often for advice.
    One night Carole walked into the comet pizza kitchen, and saw James Alefantis fucking her son in the kitchen. She was furious because she immediately knew how completely James had taken advantage of her son. She quit immediately and denounced James viciously in private, unwilling to do so publicly for professional reasons.


    The story checks out, so far: Carole Greenwood is a single mom and has a son named Dylan, who was 13 years old/young in 2003. […] [–] daj 16 points (+16|-0) 11 hours ago (edited 10 hours ago)

    It’s legit:


    Disclaimer: I have absolutely no idea if this person is authentic, but since many Pizzagate critics argue that the scandal has not a leg to stand on, because no victims have come forward so far, I believe this testimony is important to share.
    This is how he answered one of the questions on a voat comment thread. He seems to know/be aware of Dylan Greenwood
    Here is one of the email exchanges between he and James Alefantis, that he did not delete:
    After a little while when it was nearing the final exams, I was stressed out, exhausted and let my guard down and went out for some drinks with James a few times after work to get stuff off my chest. James would drug me up and then take advantage of me. When I threatened to go to the police he implied that he would harm me physically and said he would sue me. He had so many friends around DC that I believed him, I really was afraid, and just kept it all bottled up. I ended up getting PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, from what were effectively rapes, and later I began to realize that I likely had Stockholm Syndrome. I eventually quit the job, but James would send me lewd photos and texts for another 2 or three years at the rate of once about every 2 to 3 months, I think 6 months was the longest in that period. I had to kick him out of the place I worked when he came in every other month or so for about a year. Let this be a lesson: do not trust sociopaths and pathological liars.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  336. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    Former Comet Ping Pong Employee Alleges: “James Alefantis sexually assaulted me”
    5 hours ago by abortionburger in pizzagate

    Note: I have personally verified this person’s identity and backstory. I obviously cannot verify his accusations. He wishes to remain anonymous.

    By now, most people are at least vaguely familiar with the so-called “fake news” story known as Pizzagate. For those that aren’t, the brief version is that self described “internet investigators” caught wind of some strange wording in the John Podesta emails released by Wikileaks, and went down the largest internet rabbit hole in recent history.

    The story was quickly written off as mass hysteria, a conspiracy theory, and fake news by nearly all of mainstream media, and censored from the internet forum site Reddit. The theory, which has a plethora of circumstantial evidence, lacked one key factor: a victim. […] The anonymous nature of internet forums leads to skeptics demanding proof of any seemingly outrageous claim. The publication of these emails adds credibility to his story.

  337. It is indeed quite telling that two of the more active, vociferous commenters arguing that Pizzagate is wholly unsubstantiated and unworthy of even investigation (Corporal Clegg and RodW) have only bothered to comment at The Unz Review intensely on just this one subject but yet many, many times and over a very short period. Why?

    A real genuine person bothering to comment here at unz is surely likely to find other interesting articles and comment on those too. Not these disinfo specialists, nope, they came to unz with a specific (likely paid) agenda, to ward off or kill any discussion on Pizzagate. Why?

    I smell rodents and am all the more convinced that this matter should be vigorously pursued.

    • Disagree: RodW
  338. RodW says:

    I pointed out that those who support ‘investigation’ of this ‘crime’ are evil, because they’re too lazy to consider the ‘evidence’ objectively.

    Here P.C. Roberts makes a similar argument about the perversion of justice.
    It’s relevant to this topic because Roberts discusses sexual crimes which aren’t actually crimes in any sane sense.

    NoseytheDuke, notice how I’m posting yet again on this thread, thereby bringing it continued attention, and totally disproving your counterfactual and infantile accusation. (I’m not surprised you won the yellow rim of shame for it.)

  339. I smell rodents and am all the more convinced that this matter should be vigorously pursued.

    How does pointing out the stupid arguments of conspiracy theorists “ward off” or “kill” a discussion? Perhaps you all are just terrible at making arguments.

  340. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    These are some of the most powerful people in the most powerful country in the world. Testifying is likely a death sentence.

  341. Anonymous [AKA "deplorablex"] says:

    Max Spiers was a casualty. He was investigating the US and Afghani military and had evidence of child trafficking and abuse. Mike Flynn is another. UK judiciary and police are also involved so use your sense and protect yourself online.

  342. anastasia says:

    It is highly improbable that it will turn out to be “nothing.” But the problem is that it will not “turn out” because no one in the media, in the security agencies, or in the police force will investigate it.

    The circumstantial evidence of Pizzagate rises to the level of proof.

    And it’s disgusting.

  343. RodW says:

    Interesting video from Robert Steele.

    • Replies: @Anon
  344. @Anonymous

    I have held the view for a long time now that the media, including entertainment and publishing is all the propaganda arm of the Deep State, establishment or whatever you like to call it. Its takeover is all in the Protocols after all.

    Though I have been a lifelong opponent of the death penalty, reading this piece, I am driven to the same conclusion as whoever it was who wrote the WW1 song that starts: “We’ll shoot the bloody generals & we’ll hang the bourgeoise. We’ll take the ruddy admirals and throw them in the sea.” These paedophiles/psychopaths cannot be reformed, nor do they deserve to be, they are altogether too dangerous. We need rid of them and that right speedily. Being top predators, they will not be missed in the food chain, unlike mosquitos, for example.

  345. @Anon

    And the scientific community is arguing pedophilia should be treated as a condition than a crime.

    If you mean the psychiatric/psychological community; these are NOT scientists, more like witch doctors or shamans!

  346. @Wizard of Oz

    I know from my own life that some really improbable coincidences do happen, but, what are the odds against two police sketches of one or two men who were seen carrying a child in Portugal, the night a child disappeared in that town, being good likenesses of two American brothers who are being rumoured to be involved in paedophilia and who were in that town, that night being a coincidence? I.e. that the actual kidnappers were dead ringers of the Podesta Brothers? And what is one to make of the fact that (so far as I know) the police have not questioned the Podestas?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  347. @Learning

    I have a hard time believing even depraved upper echelon power freaks would do the actual kidnapping themselves.

    If they thought that any enquirey could be quashed, they might well do their own kidnapping. Why not?

    Re: Skeptical’s query: I wonder why the police seem not to have done just that?

  348. @Jus' Sayin'...

    I think that someone who knew the No. of the Podesta’s plane, checked the airport records and found that they (or at least the plane) were there at the relevant time. I’m sorry I don’t remember where I read it.

  349. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:

    Stalingrad v. Dardanelles (and Gallipoli)?

  350. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:

    The Video is no longer available “because the YouTube account has been terminated. Can you please summarise the content and/or give another link to it?

  351. @foolisholdman

    I wouldn’t be surprised to find that there was no case but it does seem odd that there has been no follow up. It seems unlikely that Trump wouldn’t have made something of it if there was something in the speculation about both brothers.

  352. Vojkan says:

    One coincidence can be accidental. Two correlated coincidences are an oddity. Three correlated coincidences arouse suspicion. A string of correlated coincidences is a pattern. Call me a ‘conspiracist’ but patterns beg for logical explanation and “there’s no there there” is not a satisfactory logical explanation.

  353. @FKA Max

    I checked out Biljana’s website. Her work is unsettling, but it isn’t specifically tailored to the tastes of pedophiles, as this website seems to be asserting. Most of it doesn’t feature any children at all. Black restraining belts are found in many of her pieces, although the “BDSM” theme isn’t there.

    As for the photographer who allegedly takes pictures of nude teenage girls, I would have liked it if that person’s name was provided.

    Some of this seems like a cheap attempt to persuade people of the perversion and degeneracy of modern art. Such examples of that do exist, for sure, but not here.

  354. Gotta wonder how the Epstein mess is connected to the Podestas and the Clintons ? I am not at all surprised the DC police agencies covered up the Pizza gate horror show. Some of those events, images and circumstances were not normal to be sure and we got zero answers from any of the players. In fact they were given plenty of time to cover all tracks ! Something is very wrong on this matter and it runs very deep to be sure. I suspect Epstein knows all the details and that would be one reason he will not make it out of jail alive.

    I got a laugh out of the far right website concept ? Truth is the blogs are nearly the only place any truth exists any longer. Hardly extreme or eve far right actually. But makes a good Faux label for CIA/FBI types to hang their hat on to create the illusion they are doing any real work ?;.html

  355. anastasia says:

    Everyone who is anyone was involved with him.

    You and I were not involved with him.

  356. anastasia says:

    Clement Freud reached out to the Mccann’s after the kidnapping and they often had dinner with him in his apartment there. They really liked him alot.

  357. @MQ

    Years later and still hidden, with J.E. and all that he knew gone….but one thing really stands out…the dims still have that habit of of not calmly disagreeing or intelligently debating, but in a totally deranged and unhinged way…of attempting to shame through intense and melodramatic name-calling, anyone who gets anywhere within 1,000 miles of MAYBE hitting upon some truth.

    It is obviously intended to give the message “Don’t say anything close to what you’re saying, or I will see to it that you are ruined.” Instead, esp after we’ve seen years of this tactic used against PDT and anyone supporting him, it comes off as a tell.’

    (P.S.This comes after hearing PDT seriously discussed on CNN and the like as everything from a Russian spy to mentally ill and people supporting him being chased and beaten in the streets. Oh, yes, people from 3 years ago…this tactic has now spread to the NYT , who are claiming that our entire history is a lie, created to hide our white supremacist roots. But back when you were merely using insulting language, you knew exactly where it would lead, didn’t you?)

  358. Dano says:

    Pizzagate is a fact people. The owned media’s quick and heavy handed reaction to the allegations are evidence of it being so. Some politicians got involved immediately as well. Does anyone wonder why?

  359. @Anonymous

    The reality is that “Energy follows thought”.

  360. Do Paeodophiles Rule the World?–the Jolly Heritic, Edward Dutton
    So far as I know, his only video scrubbed by Utube.

  361. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:

    Mmm.. there’s evil in this world, including pedophilia & satanism.

    However, in this video, Gordis pickles’ IG account.. couldn’t find the little girl pic. Could find the hashtag in_andout_burger, but nothing like the model photos, no kids video. So where’s the link to Epstein and Clinton?

  362. Arnieus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Maybe because you live in OZ you have not been made aware. In the US where we believe monopolies of essential services are harmful our congress granted a monopoly control of money creation to a bunch of mostly foreign inbred dynastic banker families. They have more power now than any king ever dreamed of.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  363. @NoseytheDuke

    Tell me please where I can read up the distinction between compulsion and addiction so as to be given intelligent reasons for agreeing with your making the distinction.

  364. @Arnieus

    No the foreign banking families, whatever influence they may have had in 1913 have been totally irrelevant to the control and policies of central banks, including the Fed for at least many decades. I am surprised that someone as ignorant as you on the subject have the chutzpah to offer even a silly misinformed comment.

  365. @thedevilisreal

    Interesting video, well-researched and well-produced (though I could do without the spooky music … does 60 Minutes use spooky music underneath their investigative reports?)

    But we’re left with the same old problem: no actual proof of anything. Lots of Internet links, tons of little girls in the same child bikinis you’ll see on any beach or poolside in America, a mountain of innuendo and guilt by association, but no proof.

    In-n-Out Burger. Gordy’s Pickles. A Spanish-language “No Smoking” sign. No jury in the country would entertain a trial based on this tremulous evidence.

    And it’s frustrating, because we all JUST KNOW major stomach-turning shenanigans are going on. Per Snopes,

    “Stratfor’s Fred Burton responded to an email by writing, “I think Obama spent about \$65,000 of the tax-payers money flying in pizza/dogs from Chicago for a private party at the White House not long ago, assume we are using the same channels?”

    Snopes discounts it as Burton just kidding around. Of course they do. But if you’re spending \$65k on pizzas and hot dogs, I promise you ain’t actually buying pizzas and hot dogs.

    Nobody can nail these guys. Meantime, the beat goes on and kids keep disappearing.

  366. MJ (UK) says: • Website

    Are people aware of the counter arguments for the sexual abuse of children by Penn State coach Sandusky?

    The extensive interviews with pupils/students, didn’t provide evidence of murmurings, or suspicions. Yes, Sadusky was known for a tactile and boysterous manner.


    Quite the definitive, and balanced summery, by Aedon Cassiel. Another Unz article, I miss the date at first, and assume ‘new’. Well worth re-posting? Made a typo, and wrote, ‘…worth re-printing’. The Unz, in printed matter eh? That’ll be the day.

    Thanks, and noted ‘Anonymous [AKA “LovesCats”]’ similar thoughts to your own.

  367. MJ (UK) says: • Website

    Must watch updates…. Which I did, and re-posted on Truthscoop. Thank you.

  368. Big gee says:

    Trying to sub on title page an keeps saying “oops,the page is missing”

  369. Pseudosyn says:

    Well, here we are about five years later, and pizzagate is in the trash bin of history!

  370. R.C. says:
    @jacques sheete

    Have you ever been to the Dali Museum in St. Pete, Florida?
    If Dali wasn’t an ‘artist’, please, pray tell who is?

  371. lydia says:
    @Kurt van Ghoye

    what ever happened to anyone involved in the Jimmy Savile scandal that went on for a year and a half by the UK media? He was connected with Israel, nothing more on that or the rumored major human trafficking in Israel which it is likely is run by fake jews and others. the Jersey bloggers were very courageous and persistent but nothing happened legally to the perpetrators.

    Who investigated the supposed double suicide of a US Congresswoman and her husband when she was writing a report and speaking out about the pedophilia and abuse in Child Protective Services. What happened to anyone in the Franklin Scandal?

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