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Perhaps Surprisingly, Indians REALLY Aren’t That Intelligent (On Average)
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India is a confusing place. It is able to send hordes of extremely intelligent and highly-motivated scientists to the USA, yet its city centres are so chaotic that tourists have to pay street urchins to throw themselves into the road just so that they can cross it. The land of the Hindus is pursuing its own space program, yet vast areas of the country lack electricity, running water, and even people who can read. What does this say about Indian IQ?

The late J. Philippe Rushton gave an answer to this question back in 2007: Indians Aren’t That Intelligent (On Average). But much more evidence has since been developed.

A country’s average IQ is a massively important predictor of national accomplishment and national average living standards, as Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen showed in their seminal 2012 book Intelligence: A Unifying Construct for the Social Sciences, as well as in their earlier book IQ and the Wealth of Nations.

For a few years now a German psychologist trained in political science called David Becker has been tracking down and collating every possible source that might permit assessment of any nation’s IQ. The young researcher, who is based at Chemnitz Technical University in East Germany (the city was known as Karl-Marx-Stadt under Communism) places all his research online so that those who criticise national IQ data can easily have their criticisms refuted. He clearly presents his methodology, in a way which Lynn did not, so that critics can see precisely what’s he’s done, how he’s done it and why: samples are rated for reliability, for example.

On this basis, Becker has also recalculated all of Richard Lynn’s much-denounced National IQs. Significantly, his calculations strongly correlate with Lynn’s—see the results at

As part of this project, Becker has also updated and recalculated the Indian IQ, the most recent known study of which was published in 2015 [Gender Performance on Intelligence Quotient Test among Medical Students in a Government Medical College, By B. Uppu et al., IOSR Journal of Dental and Medical Sciences, 2015]

Incredibly, considering all of the “Raj from The Big Bang Theorytypes populating science departments at America’s top universities, Becker’s meta-analysis of 11 studies revises the Indian average IQ downwards. Lynn and Vanhanen calculated it to be 82.2, but Becker has found it to be a mere 76.24.

How can a country with an IQ only six points above that of Sub-Saharan Africa churn out scientists of such high calibre and even begin to take people into space?

The answer: it is not merely in the geographical sense that India is a subcontinent—defined as a large mass of land separated by mountains from the rest of the continent. It is also continent-like in terms of its population.

India and China both contain over a billion people, but in China those people are overwhelmingly of one ethnicity, Han, and speak one language, Mandarin. The situation in India could hardly be more different.

The national languages are Hindi and (still) English. However, there are at least 780 distinct languages spoken in India, with most—though not all—of these languages being associated with a distinct ethnic group, rather as is the case with languages in Europe. Around 78% of Indians, and especially those in the north, speak Indo-Aryan languages that are distantly related to English, such as Hindi (41% of India’s population), Bengali (8%), and Gujarati(4.4%). Most of rest, particularly those in the South, speak Dravidian languages, such as Telegu (7.1%), Tamil (5.9%) and Kannada (3.6%). Some even speak language “isolates” unrelated to any other known language.(See Wikipedia’s List of languages by number of native speakers in India.)

There are also about 225,000 Anglo-Indians—down from some 2 million at independence in 1947. These are native English speakers, and usually Christian, ultimately descended from a union between an English colonial and a (usually female) Indian. Over the centuries, Anglo-Indians have married each other, effectively creating an ethnic group .

India is divided into 29 states and 7 territories, many of these states are named after their dominant ethnic group and its language. And, crucially, there seem to be exceptional IQ differences between these states, paralleling the way in which southern India is rich and northern India is poor.

Richard Lynn and Indian psychologist Prateek Yadav explored differences in intelligence between Indian states in a study published in the leading journal Intelligence in 2015. [Differences in cognitive ability, per capita income, infant mortality, fertility and latitude across the states of India, By Richard Lynn & Prateek Yadav, Intelligence, 2015]. Drawing upon data from all 29 states plus 4 territories, they found a very clear pattern.

Southern India is markedly more intelligent than northern India; the correlation between latitude and their test of cognitive ability being -0.43. Even more significantly, coastal India is more intelligent than inland India, the correlation between closeness to coast and average intelligence being -0.60.

The most intelligent (on average) area is a territory called Daman and Dui, two islands that were part of Portugal’s historic Goa colony, seized by India in 1961. (American pundit Dinesh D’Souza is descended from Goanese converts to Catholicism). Unfortunately, the authors do not calculate IQ scores, merely presenting average scores on standardized school tests. These islands are followed, in average score, by Kerala, a southern coastal state. The least intelligent, and also poorest, India state is Bihar, an inland northern state, close to Bangladesh.

Helpfully, Lynn and Yadav tested a host of other variables, meaning they were able to reasonably hypothesize as to the causes of these differences. A key factor: Islam. Around 20% of India’s population is Muslim and the Muslims overwhelmingly live in the north. Indeed, the Muslims were politically dominant in northern India—building the Taj Mahal and other such achievements—until the British fully took control in the nineteenth century.

The correlation between the percentage of Muslims in a state and its intelligence was -0.32. The authors propose that a likely reason is inbreeding. Hindus tend not to marry cousins, but Muslims tend strongly to marry their cousins. Cousin marriage elevates the probability of double doses of mutant genes, meaning that the brain works less well, so intelligences starts to fall. The more inbreeding there is in a nation the lower its IQ tends to be [Inbreeding depression and IQ in a study of 72 countries, by Michael A. Woodley, Intelligence, 2009]

Coastal India, they suggest, is more intelligent because there will have been greater breeding with European traders. This is most obvious when we consider that the most intelligent part of India is two islands which were run by Portugal until 1961. (American pundit Dinesh D’Souza is descended from Goanese converts to Catholicism). We would also expect that ambitious and intelligent Indians born in the interior would be likely to migrate to the wealthy coastal towns. Intelligence predicts migration, as the eminent intelligence researcher Arthur Jensen noted in his 1998 book The g Factor.

It is perhaps no coincidence that the only Indian citizen to win a Nobel Prize in the hard sciences—Sir Chandrasekhara Venkata Raman (right)who took the Physics prize in 1930—was a Tamil from Madras. Madras is (where else?) on the southern coast.

It is India’s ethnic diversity which explains why it displays extremes: intellectual brilliance yet grinding poverty. This may be a problem for India, in that it is the population’s average intelligence—which predicts so much about the fate of nations. With its low average IQ, India is corrupt, unfair, and shambolic.

This is perhaps why so many highly intelligent Indians are desperate to come to the West—probably reducing India’s average IQ even further in the process, but certainly not improving the GOP’s chances.

Lance Welton [Email him] is the pen name of a freelance journalist living in New York.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Race/Ethnicity, Science • Tags: Indian IQ, IQ 
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  1. Rational says:


    Most Westerners sub-group Indians incorrectly. They use states, linguistic groupings, proximity to coast, etc.

    They are all wrong.

    India was first settled by Dravidians, dark skinned people from Africa, who migrated along the coast.

    Later on, white-skinned Indo-Aryans arrived from the North, via Bactria (BMAC), around 1000-0 BCE, and mixed with the local population. Light skinned Muslims (Moguls) from central Asia followed.

    The lighter skinned people, in general, are more intelligent, and often end up being Hollywood actors/actresses (Dilip Kumar, Kapoors, Saira Banu, Sadhana). Unfortunately, many light skinned people (Moguls) follow Islam, which is a backward religion and does not stress education.

    A group based on skin color, though not politically correct, answers the IQ questions better.

  2. All that analysis is well and good, but the reason the dot-Indians are thought of as very smart is due to the type of sample we have in America. If you go back just 2 decades, before the family reunification immigrants came from this “source”, and the immigration-invasion hadn’t taken its toll quite so much yet, we had, what, a 1/2 million or what-have-you sample out of the 1 billion Indian people.

    It was not some random sample, as the people that come from India to go to graduate school in computer science and engineering (though they always seemed to gravitate toward the former more) are the best an brightest. It may not have been exactly 500,000/1,000,000,000, or best 0.05%, but even best 1/2 a percent would give you a high IQ crowd of people.

    It IS changing now, as family members come over and, additionally, just some regular Indian guys brought over and “Down to the Crossroads” illegally to sell the blueberry squishies and microwave burritos that regular Americans JUST WON’T SELL.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  3. Avan says:

    This is a poorly written conclusion imo. In real world metric, India is improving in most measurable metric. From HDI to manufacturing growth to GDP growth to corruption ranking the improvement has been linearly . The greatest is perhaps they have lifted 300 million Indians out of extreme poverty since 2011 according to’s hard to believe that India IQ is sub saharan level considering that their achievement and even modernisation rate has been increasing.

    Not to mention GCSE results in Singapore and UK put Indians on par with European(Most UK Indians are colonial from Africa). Income level of Indians in Malaysia and South Africa as well has shown drastic improvement(malnourishment declined) despite no immigration to these countries.

    • Replies: @jbwilson24
    , @Rev. Spooner
  4. Esaka says:

    This article, while interesting, fails to account for caste – the most significant variable without which understanding India is impossible.

    For one, C.V. Raman was a Brahmin. This caste has traditionally monopolized learning and education for the last 3000 years. Tamil brahmins in particular are renowned for their intellectual powers and it is this tiny community that contributes solely to the intellectual output of Tamil Nadu, not inter-breeding with European traders. Even historically the brahmins have chiefly contributed to India’s intellectual output (Science, literature, Math, and philosophy) while barring other castes from education, thus retarding the entire nation.

    About Muslims

    Most foreign writers tend to erroneously group Indian Muslims as a separate ethnic/cultural group that are distinct from other Indians. This approach is wrong on several levels. In reality, Indian Muslims are genetically the same as their non muslim neighbors as reported by Razib Khan. A Tamil Muslim, for example, is culturally and genetically indistinguishable from his Tamil Hindu neighbors. Indian muslims must be compared to the members of their former castes. Unsurprisingly, since most muslims were converted from the peasant and dalit castes, their overall IQs and economic performance is identical to other peasants and dalit sub castes.

    Conversely, Muslims converted from the upper castes tend to be just as successful as the members of their former castes. Muhammad Iqbal came from a Kashmiri Brahmin background. Salman Rushdie too is from a Brahmin background if I’m not mistaken. Also consider that India’s richest muslims belong to groups that were converted from Hinduism’s merchant castes (Memons, Khojas, Bohras). Azim Premji (a Gujarati Khoja) is a descendant from the Lohana (merchant) caste. Most wealthy Indians belong to Hinduism’s Merchant caste, Hindus and Muslims alike.

    In summary, caste is the most significant predictor of IQ, economic performance, and overall productivity and not silly theories like cross breeding with Europeans or cousin marriages.

  5. The New Observer reported last year that ‘Only 1·4 percent of Indian IT engineers can write functionally correct & efficient code.’

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Avan
  6. anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:

    “India was first settled by Dravidians, dark skinned people from Africa, who migrated along the coast.”

    The Australian Aborigines have some genetic affiliation with the Dravidians in India.

    As for the Dravidians having African roots, not in the past 4000 years.

  7. @Johnny Rottenborough

    IT people are not engineers to begin with, Johnny. Engineers write some code occasionally, but mostly they do engineering. A lot of engineers write spaghetti code for their own purposes, especially just number-crunching, as a lot of that may be one-offs, and it ain’t worth getting really into the proper programming environment.

  8. I don’t know how much of this is wrong. But this fact suggests at least one assertion is wrong. Thereby calling much of it into question.

    “[While] bout 70% of the population in mainland China can speak Standard Chinese, only 10% can speak the language fluently.”

    Which proves wrong the assertion that i”n China those people are overwhelmingly of one ethnicity, Han, and speak one language, Mandarin.”

  9. @Rational

    Dravidians are Caucasians. You are completely lacking in anything but braindead prejudice.

    • Replies: @Rational
    , @anonymous
  10. @Esaka

    You are exactly correct. The writers and most readers of this article, however, don’t know anything about India, and so they just make up things to justify their own stupid prejudices.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  11. Priss Factor [AKA "Asagirian"] says: • Website

    Indians need to get rid of saris and nose-rings. Indians are AESTHETICALLY messy. They would do much better with simple Mao suits.

  12. Rational says:


    My comment is based on fact, which is obvious by looking at these black Indians. Eg.

    “After warming of the climate, new migrations out of Africa from ~50 kya populated India with large numbers of humans who later became known as Dravidians.”


  13. Thomm says:

    The lighter skinned people, in general, are more intelligent,


    Sri Lanka is more prosperous than India. India is more prosperous than Pakistan. Pakistan is more prosperous than Afghanistan.

    Yet, skin color and ‘Caucasianness’ follow exactly the opposite trend. Hence, the truth is exactly the opposite of what you imagine it to be.

    Plus, the high-IQ Indians in America would all be tall and light-skinned as per your theory. By contrast, they are dark, tubby, and usually from South India.

    You have made the mistake of discussing a subject that requires an IQ 30 points higher than you possess.

    • Agree: Cato, Alfred
    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
    , @lou
    , @Vagabond
  14. Anon7 says:

    India might be too complicated for Westerners to figure out.

    I grew up in a university town in the Sixties, and every Indian person I ever met was a smart academic Brahmin. By “smart” I don’t mean “genius”; I mean smart enough to become doctors, lawyers, MBAs, etc., say IQ 115-130. They intermarried within their caste (often by returning home to India) and I can tell you that their progeny all go to university and then grad school. Seemingly, IQ is highly heritable, and a cultural push towards education accentuates their advantage. The biggest downside for this is lost opportunity cost for the children of American citizens.

    What we don’t know about is what happens when the global interests that have decided that vast fortunes can be made if the United States vastly increases its population open up our borders so ordinary Indians flood into the country by the tens of millions. What will we do with these people? Besides tax ourselves to feed them and house them and attempt to educate them? And what if it turns out that they really do average about 76 on the IQ scale.

    By the time this experiment has been performed it will be too late.

  15. Indians in South Africa when tested for IQ on the g factor have similar IQ to whites (95-100)although the average IQ came in at about 85. The gfactor is the more important element
    Most Indians in SA were indentured peasant labour so don’t come from the elite classes.
    When they go back to india they comment on how poor the education is in idia and become distinctly thankful that their ancestors were removed from india as slaves.

  16. Anon[708] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes, India has one Nobel Prize winner, but if the Nobel committee had been smarter themselves, they would have given one to Ramanujan. There have been other Indians who have done high-level math and physics work, but they’re not on the mental radar of the Nobel committee. The committee naturally gravitates towards people who have a good publicity department, and Indians don’t have a habit of blowing their own horn.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @Escher
    , @Anon
    , @sb
  17. @Avan

    “GCSE results in Singapore and UK put Indians on par with European(Most UK Indians are colonial from Africa). ”

    Singapore is highly selective about immigration. They don’t let just anyone in, and they traditionally tried to maintain a 75% Chinese majority. Smart.

    Indians who were booted out of Africa are likely to be far more driven and intelligent than the masses who stayed home in India in the poor villages. They are obviously entrepreneurial risk takers.

    I don’t understand where the defensiveness is coming from. India has a ton of people, and has likely been experiencing dysgenic reproduction for centuries (the poor ‘breed like mosquitoes’, as the saying goes). Sanitation, rural life and diet can account for part of the IQ issue, but you cannot dismiss cosanguinity and reproductive habits.

    My big problem with Indians does not concern IQ, but rather their hideous women and penchant for fraud. Importing millions of Indians into a society built on trust is an amazingly stupid move. Even Singapore isn’t this dumb, as they have a brutal justice system which keeps the thieving nature of Indians at bay.

    • Replies: @Avan
    , @TT
  18. eah says:

    Indians REALLY Aren’t That Intelligent (On Average)

    Many who deal with them daily in a high tech employment environment come to realize this; I certainly did — of course some are quite capable, even very good — a significant majority are at best ‘warm body’ mediocre: below the level of the average White.

  19. It is India’s ethnic diversity which explains why it displays extremes: intellectual brilliance yet grinding poverty.

    The same is true for Africa. Whites divided the African continent into nations giving no thought to tribal and religious differences.

    However, India’s (and the African continent’s) dearth of Nobel prizes in the sciences is due to a lack of high-performing immigrants — Ashkenazi Jews in particular.

    Belgium is ethnically divided between the French-speaking Walloons and the Flemish. The country has only won two Nobel prizes since 1977, both by Ashkenazi Jews. François Englert, a Holocaust survivor born in Belgium in 1932 to Jewish parents who immigrated from Poland, won the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics. Ilya Prigogine won the 1977 Nobel Prize for Chemistry. Prigogine was born in Moscow January 25, 1917 to a Jewish family. Critical of the Soviet Union, the family first immigrated to Germany, then Belgium in 1929.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  20. anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:

    The IQ scores according to the database of countries surrounding India:

    Pakistan – 80
    Bangladesh – 74
    Sri Lanka – 86
    Nepal – 44 (?) This impossible figure doesn’t inspire much confidence in the quality of the database.

  21. anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:

    See pg. 44 of this study

    It is noted that the two Indian states that participated in an international test of student math performance had a really wide distribution in scores. Notably 1% of the Indian students had advanced results, a higher figure than in most other developing countries. Even if 1% of Indian school children are advanced this would mean India produces 1/3 of the number of advanced students as the US.

  22. anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s well understood on this website that average Indian IQ is low but there are major bright spots.

    1. High caste Hindus who are about 16% of the population have much higher average IQs than the rest of India.

    2. The average IQ of all of South India is 5-10 points higher than the national average. South India is about 17% of the country (250 million out of 1.4 billion).

    3. South India and high caste Hindu overlaps like Tamil Brahmins are extravagantly higher in IQ. However Tamil Brahmins are less than 1% of the population and in the south Brahmins are less numerous than in the rest of the country.

    Two curious religious ethnic groups are smaller bright spots: Parsis (maybe 100,000 in number) and Jains (0.3% of country). Both are very intelligent especially Parsis.

    The million dollar question.

    Are the bright spots in aggregate enough to propel India in 50 years to the level of a middle income country? Upper middle income country? First world?

    And last but not least and I believe this factor is completely left out of HBD discussions, even lower IQ Indians don’t behave like low IQ groups. Lower IQ Indians probably have the best sense of self improvement of any comparable group in the world. There was a large wave of Punjabi migration to the UK decades ago. Few of the migrants were high caste. However, the descendants of the wave are solidly middle class. It goes to show how well off even lower IQ people can be in a first world country as long as the people have middle class values/personalities.

    • Replies: @Anon
  23. Avan says:
    @Johnny Rottenborough

    First engineer are different from developer. Tons of mechanical engineer in the states don’t know how to code as well. The reason ehy I’m optimistic about India is because half of the top 50 schools with the best coders are from India based on Hackathon ranking.
    This post failed to mention subrace and caste.The proof is in Malaysia where 99%
    of Indiand are labourers descendents yet their income is between Malay(92) and Chinese (105).If you do a backward digit span based on income, Malaysian Indians get an average IQ of 98.

  24. Avan says:

    Agree. As mentioned people expecting Indian IQ to regress to mean but always wonder why in US, UK, Singapore, Malaysia the descendants do better than India born Indian. .People keep underestimate subrace and caste.

  25. dearieme says:

    Ramanujan was a Brahmin too, wasn’t he? Hardy and Littlewood thought him a genius.

    (That’s not “genius” in the American sense of ‘the cleverest boy in my class at High School’.)

  26. dearieme says:

    You chump: we’re all descended from people who left Africa about 50k years ago, be we Dravidians, Japanese, or Swedes.

  27. dearieme says:
    @John Lilburne

    Make up your mind: were they indentured labour or were they slaves?

    I take it that deliberately confusing the two is a lame attempt to somehow excuse American slavery. Shame on you.

  28. dearieme says:

    “if the Nobel committee had been smarter themselves, they would have given one to Ramanujan”

    Don’t be so foolish – there isn’t a Nobel Prize in mathematics.

  29. When I saw D’Souza twice in the space of two paragraphs, I though it a tribute to his great plagiarism skills. I then searched an found out that plagiarism is, in fact, a skill of Fareed Zakaria, another stable genius from the same shithole.

  30. @obwandiyag

    You have no idea what “most readers of this article” think.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  31. Avan says:

    I actually do deal in tech as well. And I agree that I’ve been dealing with tons of incompetent coders but then again I could say the same for E. European coders or Malaysian Chinese coders that I’ve experienced as well being subpar.
    I don’t chalk to anecdotal for facts because according to Times Ranking,almost half of top 50 coding school in the world are from India.I do think that those terrible coders are just because Indian economy rely too much on IT that it inflate unskilled people into that field.

  32. Avan says:

    Again you’re not making the same assumption for any other ethnic group(be it Hispanics or Iranetc) if those pool are skilled or not. The fact is India is an outlier and that’s because IQ is highly divided by caste and subrace. How is that hard to understand? The caste system is social eugenic system at play.

    Why I reject is because:
    A) If India IQ regress, how come in the last 10 yrs significant progress have been made than the 60 yrs before that. Based on GDP per capita increment, HDI increment, performance in olympiad ranking, chess ranking, number of unicorn startups, etc.

    B) Data have came out of UK, Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, South Africa of Indian socio-economic status since 2016 have changed my view on Indian IQ… and they’ve mostly indicated average 95-100 range with Singapore being in the average 105-110 range probably due to skilled immigration. Mind you even if you were to go by immigration theory, 99% of Malaysian Indian are indentured labourers and they have an IQ of 98(backward digitspan from income between Malay(92) and Chinese(105).)

    C) It’s good that Singapore maintain a 75% Chinese because if Indian is 75%,it won’t be the glorious city is is now.However if Singapore is 75% Russian as well, it would be equally as disastrous.There’s no evidence of high income society where majority Indian rule. Hence why people are skeptic about Indian. Closest would be Mauritius but we have to wait years to see if Mauritius really flourish into “Singapore of Africa” the media keep claiming. Rest assured the GDP per capita of Mauritius is:$11000 and it’s not bad for an economy that is based solely on finance run by individuals of low IQ supposedly.

    • Replies: @Anon
  33. @Thomm

    This article is absurd and the author really needs to go back to school, His Skool wasn’t a real school.

  34. India is a civilization & historical culture, but not a people or a nation. So, there is no much to discuss…

    • Replies: @lou
  35. Anon[109] • Disclaimer says:

    As a scientist I can assure you that the vast majority of Indians with Doctoral Degrees are not SMART. Not even close. They can be very hard working like the character in Homer Simpson who says, “I spend 24 hours a day and 7 days a week in the convenience store, it takes a tremendous amount of my time!” Gotta love the facts. Most are devious and will steal any idea they can and call it their own except they can not do anything with it. Har Gobind Khorana is the perfect example. Slave driver, ruthless and criminal thief. Dumb as a fence post but nasty as a cobra and Nobel Prize winner. But then so was the Head Nigga of the USA.

    • Replies: @Avan
    , @BrokenSymmetry
  36. Avan says:

    “Im a scientist bla bla bla”
    Yeah right dude, any anonymous name can make any claim. I don’t give a shit anecdotal.What I care about is objectively measured score. SAT score, GMAT score by country, average CGPA. This all contradict to your claim. Post stats not assumptions. People make the same statement about Russian/Ukrainian being not bright as well behaviour but again I don’t give a shit about experience anecdotal. Scores!!

    • Replies: @Anon
  37. Hillbob says:

    oh Kipling where are you? Us indians so love our great white massas , so kind wonderful brilliant people everyone of them. We is so backward dirty, illiterate , poor, hungry and dumb. Oh great white massa please come and save us before u fuck up what is left of the world

    • Replies: @lou
    , @Anon
  38. Escher says:

    I thought I saw a couple of Indian names (immigrants to the West) who won Nobels in the past fews years.

  39. ‘…Coastal India, they suggest, is more intelligent because there will have been greater breeding with European traders…’

    Goa is all very well, but I’m skeptical that ‘European traders’ could have had a significant genetic impact on coastal India in general.

    • Replies: @Alden
  40. lou says:

    A few decades ago, 44 was about the average Nepalese lifespan.

  41. lou says:

    Bharat may be the first land with 2 BILLION people.
    what a mess.

    If massa so bad, why so many wanna live with YT [Whitey]?

  42. lou says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Long time no see yr name, since Takis died.

    India is all you say it is and all you claim that it is not.

  43. @anonymous

    ‘…Nepal – 44 (?) This impossible figure doesn’t inspire much confidence in the quality of the database.’

    Indeed. While I have no problem in principle with the whole IQ/hereditability/racial difference schtick, that doesn’t mean we should simply unquestioningly accept every number that we’re given. Obviously, whatever the intelligence of Nepalese relative to other groups may be, that figure doesn’t accurately reflect it.

  44. C.V. Raman isn’t the only ethnic Indian who grew up in India who has won a Nobel Prize in the hard sciences. There are three others, S. Chandrasekhar (Raman’s nephew), Hargobind Khorana (a molecular biologist) and Venkatraman Ramakrishnan (also a molecular biologist).

    However, the three others did their graduate level and later research work outside India. Raman was home-grown, and worked during the era of British rule.

    Hargobind Khorana was a Punjabi Sikh. The other three are Tamil Brahmins.

  45. anonymous[177] • Disclaimer says:

    About Muslims

    Excellently put… kudos!

    These “researchers,” along with being vile racists, are usually Islamophobes, and tend to include such bile to quench their prejudices.

    I say this as an Indian Muslim who is by no means a low IQ idiot, as such “researchers” would have others believe. Parents (doctor/engineer), Me (software/FIRElife).

    As I have asked before, and I repeat here again; Is it better to live a “3rd” world existence in the “1st” world, or vice versa?

    I for one, choose the latter. SubhanAllah.

  46. anonymous[674] • Disclaimer says:

    About Muslims

    Excellently put… kudos!

    These “researchers,” along with being vile racists, are usually Islamophobes, and tend to include such bile to quench their prejudices.

    I say this as an Indian Muslim who is by no means a low IQ idiot, as such “researchers” would have others believe. Parents (doctor/engineer), Me (software/FIRElife).

    As I have asked before, and I repeat here again; Is it better to live a “3rd” world existence in the “1st” world, or vice versa?

    I for one, choose the latter. SubhanAllah.

  47. anonymous[420] • Disclaimer says:

    Unfortunately, many light skinned people (Moguls) follow Islam, which is a backward religion…

    Lol! Only the godless and/or pagan mangods-worshippers would call Islam a “backward religion,” which happens to be the only faith that defines Pure Monotheism, a truly timeless faith (from the first man, to the last).

    Such Islamophobic “barbs” will hardly change that fact. You can repeat it any number of times, it is NOT going to make the pagan Trinity or the Trimurti, etc., the logical truth.

    … and does not stress education.

    With regards to the education, just because you say it, does not make it true.

    Recite: In the name of thy Lord who created man from a clot. Recite: And thy Lord is the Most Generous Who taught by the pen, taught man that which he knew not. (Quran, 96:1-5)

    And they shall say had we but listened or used reason, we would not be among the inmates of the burning fire. (Quran, 67:10)

    Are those who have knowledge and those who have no knowledge alike? Only the men of understanding are mindful. (Quran, 39:9)

    Remember, there is nothing backward about;

    Say, “He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”

    (Quran, 112)

  48. @Anon

    Khorana actually conceptually anticipated PCR but so what, he already had a Nobel. Indians can justifiably feel aggrieved at the Nobel Committee in the cases of Sudarshan John and Bose. Practically every Indian I’ve come to know well enough to have deeper discussions with have acknowledged the great disparity in ability within the Indian population and the challenge of pulling the country upwards.

  49. lou says:

    Lanka> Buddhist.
    India> mostly Hindu.

    Paki> Muslim. Afghanistan > Muslim.

    • Agree: BengaliCanadianDude
  50. India is an Asian shithole. There may be a few smart ones, but they are not needed in the West. They must remain in India and help their country develop. Indians in the West must be repatriated.

  51. @attilathehen

    Repatriation of legal residents? You don’t want to go there

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  52. @MuslimGuyInCanada

    Legal resident means non-citizen. And, as I am only for the West, even if they are “citizens” they can be stripped of their citizenship.

    Muslims are not Western. You do not belong in Canada or anywhere in the West.

    I definitely want to “go there.”

    • Replies: @Avan
    , @BengaliCanadianDude
  53. @John Lilburne

    Indians in South Africa when tested for IQ on the g factor have similar IQ to whites (95-100)

    LOL “similar”. You mean “less than”. 95 < 100.

    • Replies: @Avan
  54. Avan says:

    India is a shithole but its improving rapidly which cannot be said about the neighbours. India is already fastest growing economy in the world and are actually doing what most people in this thread complain about.They tackle the poo issue, train issue, cleanliness issue, poverty issue. All of them show noticeable improvement. Hockey stick growth improvement. It takes time. Most of the change only happen quite recently.I know this because I invest in developing countries real estate and India is one those that are booming.

    • Replies: @TT
  55. Avan says:

    Oh boy. Please don’t give stupid suggestion that never gonna happen. Limiting Visa to India and increase to Europe is a solution. Stripping Indian born in US from their American citizenship allows for a loophole that can backfire to European as well. When some people say WN have negro IQ, lol it’s not an exaggeration.

    • LOL: Truth
    • Replies: @attilathehen
  56. Avan says:

    As far as I know,Indians in SA as of the present are about 5 points lower than white. Economically they have narrowed the income gap that used to exist which makes them the only group in SA to narrow the gap.

  57. @Avan

    Are you involved with Indians? Are you Jewish? If you are a Western male, you are a cuck.

    I am a Western nationalist, not a white nationalist. Stripping citizenship from Europeans is not part of the plan. Stripping citizenship from East Indians, along with the Chinese, Koreans, etc., is part of the plan.

    The West is not black/Asian/Jewish/Muslim.

    There is something in your life that prevents you from being a Western nationalist. Since you are working in Indian real estate, I suggest you buy a home in India and move there.

  58. A K says:

    Esaka’s summary is spot on.

  59. @Avan

    For the poor of India, the country is still a black hole of misery. The society is two tiered (levels) and the lower section of society is still shunned and demonized as Marxist when they protest. The ruling class have always given literacy and education less attention quite intentionally so as to use caste, religion and jingoism as a means to power.
    They are at par with the ruling elite in the West, and equally intelligent.

  60. The Banyas and Marwaris of India will give the Jews a run for their money and more and they will do it without violence and mass killing.

  61. Black Africans in Africa hover around 70, but US Blacks (mean 20+% White, median 12-15% White) are 85. This also includes Blacks adopted by Whites. I suspect that if you took 1,000 random Congolese babies and had them adopted at birth by White (or Black) families in the US, their average IQ would be about 80. So, what’s the “real IQ” of a group? Adopted by middle class Whites or what they can achieve on their own in their home countries? I would argue for the former, but really I have no dog in this fight.

    My very rough estimates of the “real IQ” of groups based on White norms (100 IQ), ie random sample adopted by middle class Whites:

    Pure Bantu: 80
    Pure Amerindian: 90
    Typical 50/50 Mestizo: 95
    South Asians (average of all groups): 95
    Jungle (SE) Asians: 95
    Fancy (NE) Asians: 105
    Ashkenazi Jews: 107

    I read somewhere that the US children of South Asian immigrants are at about 110 IQ, so that’s where the population will stabilize (regression to the mean already having taken place). That establishes them as the highest IQ group in the country. In my experience they may also be the only group that’s politically left of the Jooos. I at least meet the occasional right-wing Jew, like myself. I haven’t met any Indians right of center.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Vojkan
  62. @Rational

    A group based on skin color, though not politically correct, answers the IQ questions better.

    Ramanujan, India’s all-time greatest mathematician, was not merely from Tamil Nadu – he had clearly Dravidian features.

    • Replies: @rec1man
  63. This is like a movie preview, coming soon to a theater near you. In this case, what North America is becoming, multi ethnic with wide ranging IQ’s from very low to very high. We too will become like India, like Brazil. Pockets of functionality with wide swaths of dysfunction.

  64. @Anonymous Jew

    ‘In my experience they may also be the only group that’s politically left of the Jooos. I at least meet the occasional right-wing Jew, like myself. I haven’t met any Indians right of center.’

    They’ll be politically left until it’s their ox getting gored. That tends to provoke a radical reassessment of the situation.

  65. One thing to remember is the Brahmin factor. Brahmins, like the Jews, have been literate for thousands of years. And my nickel says they are the most intelligent Indians.

    • Replies: @Anon
  66. anon[306] • Disclaimer says:

    Only a really low IQ person will call an exorcism -believing retard likeDinesh D’Souza to be an intelligent person .

  67. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    The lighter skinned people, in general, are more intelligent, and often end up being Hollywood actors/actresses (Dilip Kumar, Kapoors, Saira Banu, Sadhana). Unfortunately, many light skinned people (Moguls) follow Islam, which is a backward religion and does not stress education.

    Ancient prejudice like this in India is what’s hurting Indians. The article clearly stated that people in Southern India, who are majority darker skin Dravidians, have higher IQ than the lighter skin Northern Indians.

    In his book Who We Are and How We Got Here, Harvard geneticist David Reich stated that his DNA research shows Northern Indians have at best 25% genes from the “Steppe people” who came down from the North, as well as some Persian genes, while Southern Indians have lower % of Steppe people genes. But over the centuries, Indians have all mixed and mingled in one way or another, resulting in Northern and Southern Indians having many shared genes. The Parsis and Jains are largely descended from Persian admixture, and they are notoriously inbred.

    Ancient prejudice on skin color in India, i.e. the Caste system, is what kept the Northern Indians inbred and stupid, not Islam.

    • Replies: @Numinous
  68. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    Indians are successful in the US not because they are smarter than whites, but because they work cheap, have “chutzpah” like the Jews, i.e. are shameless liars, and are extremely clannish. Indian managers are known to only hire and promote other Indians.

    In a country with an average IQ of 76, Indians have to be 2 Standard Deviations above the mean to be at around average IQ of US whites, at 106. Two SD = 95.45% percentile, since India is a huge country with 1.2 billion people, it means only 54 million Indians have the average IQ of whites. Meanwhile, to have an IQ high enough to be a doctor or a barely gifted STEM major in the US (121), an Indian would have to be 3 SD above the mean, 3 SD=99.7% percentile, or 3.24 million of their population.

    So basically, only 3.24 million Indians out of a country of 1.2 billion have IQ high enough to be considered mildly gifted in the US, at 121. Current population of Indians in the US already far exceeds this number, at almost 6 million. Trump, like all dumb US politicians, think that all Indians are born knowing how to code, and wants to give them tens of millions more H1b visas and green cards. This would only mean one thing, that the quality of Indians coming over will continue to decrease. It’s already happening. I see them all around me in software. Most Indian programmers are at best mediocre, many are absolutely terrible. Per the WSJ only 1 out of 100 job applicants in India’s tech industry are employable. They are only here because the Indian outsourcing firms keep importing them, because they want cheap labor. And our Jew masters love them because they are good puppets, desperate like all immigrants wanting a green card, speaks some English and are shameless liars like their Jew masters.

    The US is heading for suicide by importing more of these scam artists into this country. They will turn us into another India, completely ungovernable. Not a single Indian politician is remotely intelligent. Nikki Haley is the dumbest moron to ever be appointed to the UN, an absolute embarrassment to the country. What do you expect from a people who believe in a religion with 33 million Gods?!

  69. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    The fact is India is an outlier and that’s because IQ is highly divided by caste and subrace. How is that hard to understand? The caste system is social eugenic system at play.

    Once again the implication by Indian nationals that light skin = smart, again ignoring IQ results that show Southern Indians with darker skin have higher IQ. You can also see it in travel videos to India on YouTube, Southern Indian cities like Hyderabad, Chennai, are more modern and cleaner than the pissed poor disgustingly dirty cities in the north like Amritsar, Kolkata, Delhi. Of course this being India, it’s a low bar. Hyderabad and Chennai remain disgusting and poor by first world standards, just better than Northern India.

    Mind you even if you were to go by immigration theory, 99% of Malaysian Indian are indentured labourers and they have an IQ of 98(backward digitspan from income between Malay(92) and Chinese(105).)

    Somehow I doubt that. Per Lynn, Malaysia’s average IQ is only 92, and the country is 60% Malay, 22% Chinese, 7% Indian. Per Al Jazeera, Indians are the poorest group in Malaysia, and 7% of Indians commit 70% of the crimes in that country.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    , @Avan
  70. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    Agree. All immigrants from third world countries should be “encouraged” to return, they are needed much more in their home countries than in the US. The only people who want them here are the Jews, who want to turn America into a multicultural third world shithole so we can be more easily exploited and ruled over, divide and conquer. Fucking Jews should be the first to go. Until they are all kicked out of this country, this third world invasion of America will not end.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  71. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    Kippling is rolling over from his grave. Indians are now claiming to be the white man’s massas. Gunga din ain’t carrying water no more, he’s now minding our computers.

    And then we wonder why we keep having all these security breaches.

  72. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    The committee naturally gravitates towards people who have a good publicity department, and Indians don’t have a habit of blowing their own horn.

    Hilarious. You haven’t been around Indians much have you? Indians are best at tooting their own horns, completely shameless at it. The only people better than the Indians at that are the Jews. That’s why they like each other so much.

  73. Winston says:

    Muslims are a minority. The real reason is the caste system-inbreeding for thousands of years. The North is more casteist than the South and it has not valued education like the South has.

  74. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    1. High caste Hindus who are about 16% of the population have much higher average IQs than the rest of India.

    Seriously doubt it. Caste in India is closely associated with skin color. Lighter skin Indians enjoy far more “white privilege” in India than whites in the US. The high caste Indians’ success is largely due to this caste privilege that they confer on one another and have enjoyed throughout India’s history. But the ultimate revenge is, their inbreeding is lowering their IQ, which is why despite having far more high caste Brahmins in the north, the northern states are poorer than the southern states. Parsis and Jains are notorious for their inbreeding.

    Meanwhile, the much darker skin Dravidians in Southern India, who have much fewer hangups about skin color and caste, are actually smarter(as per this article) and doing better than the northern states economically. As you pointed out yourself, the Brahmins make up only 1% of the Tamils but Tamil Nadu is one of the more prosperous states.

    Most of the Indian posters on western websites are higher caste Indians who need to keep up the con that higher caste = smarter, so they can keep bringing their clan over.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Numinous
  75. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Christopher Chantrill

    One thing to remember is the Brahmin factor. Brahmins, like the Jews, have been literate for thousands of years. And my nickel says they are the most intelligent Indians.

    Brahmins dominate the north, and the northern states are poorer than the dark skin, Dravidian dominant south, who per this article also have higher IQ than the north. The article tries to blame the lower IQ of the north on Indian Muslims, which is hilarious. Brahmins, Parsis and Jains have been practicing inbreeding for centuries, to keep their skin light, which also lowers their IQ. But they try hard to keep up the con, keep telling everyone light skin makes them smarter, and keep deluding themselves.

  76. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    An IQ of 76 is much more plausible. It would explain why nearly 800m in India still do not have access to a toilet, and still need to defecate out in the open.

  77. @anonymous

    “…Say, “He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent…”

    Modern educated humans are more than equivalent to hopelessly ignorant “Allah” who “revealed” blunder after blunder in his Qur’an :

    Scientific Errors in the Qur’an :

  78. sb says:

    “Indians don’t have a habit of blowing their own horn ”

    Have to laugh at that line . Even the most minor achievement by an ethnic Indian is broadcast and shouted out to the world .
    Become a very minor local politician in an emigrant country and teams of journalists will write stories about you .
    Win an Olympic bronze medal and you will be a celebrity and hero for life . Isn’t there some Indian movie about some guy who came fourth at the Olympics ?
    Low expectations I guess

  79. @anonymous

    Furthermore : Saudi Cleric Says the Sun Rotates Around the Earth

    And : PhD thesis : The earth is flat – Gulf News…/op…/phd-thesis-the-earth-is-flat-1.200920&#8230;

    Thanks to Islam !

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @Truth
    , @anon
  80. The whole idea of BRIC was laughable from the outset; Brazil and India will never amount to much, because of HBD and multiple ethnic demographics.

    Working in software, I got so tired of having to redo miserable code from Indian programmers that I could have screamed. Ever wonder why MS Windows has so many irritants and problems that never end (other than that it is bloatware and was never designed as a realtime OS)? The place decided to hire H1-B Indians, who have taken it over the last 18-odd years. Enough said.

    • Replies: @Alden
  81. Anonymous[223] • Disclaimer says:

    silly theories like cross breeding with Europeans or cousin marriages.

    Breeding with higher IQ race will, on average, create smarter kids (and dumber, for the higher IQ race). Also, “cousin marriages” are extremely damaging to the offspring’s DNA – including the IQ-related DNA. These are not “silly theories”.

  82. Vojkan says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    Since I have met and am acquainted with the work of quite a few Ashkenazi Jews, I am led to believe that those I haven’t met and have never heard of must be true geniuses for the whole group to have an average IQ of 107.

  83. anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:

    One of the prettiest Indian women I ever saw was a dark skinned (and I guess Dravidian-at the very least lower caste) woman working a menial job. I thought she was extremely pretty and I do not really like Indian women. I do not think Dravidian Indians are actually negeoid though a small percentage do look it (like the andamanese).

    • Replies: @üeljang
  84. anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Its the same in the uk. There are Indians mainly from the former African colonies who were brought in as indentured labour and who quickly became middle man minorities. Because they have wealth (due to thier skills picked up in the economic niche in the colonies) they are thought of as being really intelligent. What tends to happen though is that the more assimilated ones go into civil service or private sector and basically it turns out because of inbreeding (to preserve wealth and race) they are pretty thick. There is a (obviously unwritten) rule in the financial district of London to not hire Indians born in the U.K because they generally turn out to be pampered priveliged idiots.

    The ones from India are another self selected population but obviously are really smart.

  85. anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:

    ‘cousin marriages’

    Cousin marriages practiced long enough definetly lower iq though.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  86. anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:

    You know that Dravidian Indians created one of the worlds oldest civilisations right? The Indus valley civilisation. You mean that you do not want to take credit for one of the worlds oldest civilisations? I am stunned. Also why is it blind prejudice?

  87. anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    ‘They would do much better with simple Mao suits’

    That image made me laugh. But seriously the suit and teousers that the Pakistanis wear (not the salwar kameeze) would look better on them in the eyes of a westerner. Then again there would be no more beautiful sari shops… I am conflicted.

  88. anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    ‘They would do much better with simple Mao suits’

    That image made me laugh. But seriously the suit and trousers that the Pakistanis wear (not the salwar kameeze) would look better on them in the eyes of a westerner. Then again there would be no more beautiful sari shops… I am conflicted.

  89. anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Lilburne

    ‘tested for IQ on the g factor have similar IQ to whites (95-100)although the average IQ came in at about 85’

    How is it possible to have a lower iq score than your g score? I thought g correlated with the more difficult questions?

  90. APilgrim says:

    The IQ demographics of India are clear, however …

    Srinivasa Iyengar Ramanujan FRS, (1887 – 1920) probably deserved a Nobel Prize.

    He was quite the mathematical genius.

  91. Anonymous[223] • Disclaimer says:

    The only people who want them here are the Jews, who want to turn America into a multicultural third world shithole so we can be more easily exploited and ruled over, divide and conquer.

    That’s not the final goal. Why do so many still don’t understand that the jews want to completely exterminate the white race? It’s not like they’re too shy about it.

    • Replies: @TT
  92. Anonymous [AKA "Ibee"] says:

    I’ve spent a great deal of time in India. I’m a Caucasian westerner and I first went there fifty years ago and I estimated I’ve spent on and off about nine years of my life there. I’ve watched the transformation of India with fascination. A few observations:

    When I was first in India I was much taller than the average Indian (I’m of slightly above average height in my country of birth) and in a railway station crowd would be looking down at a sea of heads. Now there are many young Indians of my height and some are taller. Until 1982 (approximately) India was practically starving and their growth was stunted . There was not enough food to feed all the population and in the early 1970s it was not uncommon to witness people literally starving to death on the streets. The whole population, including the “middle class” were very, very thin probably with an average BMI of about 17. About 80% of the rural population as I recall through the haze of time were barefoot and dressed in dhoties. Now there’s lots of fatties and an epidemic of diabetes and it’s rare to see traditional dress. Nobody (well almost nobody) is starving to death on the streets. It’s become unusual to see a dead body (I can’t remember how many I saw in my first trip to India but it was a lot, and had a permanent effect of my later sensibility)

    It should be remembered that when India achieved its independence from the British life expectancy in India was estimated to be in the low twenties. Literacy was also extremely low. The British had systematically impoverished and starved India. I won’t launch into a rave on Colonialism but check out the facts on the Great Bengal Famine, which incidentally was only one of the many famines that plagued India during British rule.

    But one of the things I did notice back then is that the southern coastal people were noticeably taller and more robust than the people from the interior. I put this down to their consumption of seafood. Most Indians are vegetarian but most of those living near the coast (excepting strict Brahmins) eat fish (“sea vegetables”). Their better diet is probably the reason for their higher IQ.

    But as to the central thesis of the article: The whole of India was starved for at least one hundred years and this is bound to have left an epigenetic footprint in their biology. I have absolutely no doubt that genetically the Indians are just as intelligent as Europeans if not more so. Nature vs Nurture kicks in here. I find the whole idea that Indians are less intelligent than the rest of us risible. It is one of the characteristics of life in the Kali Yuga “that inferior races imagine themselves themselves to be the better of superior people”.

    Just remember that it was the Indians who gave us the concept of zero and anybody who is familiar with ancient Indian Literature and Philosophy will know of its insights into the human condition. The Mahabharata is the greatest work of literature ever written..

    Jai Hind

  93. anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:

    ‘The same is true for Africa. Whites divided the African continent into nations giving no thought to tribal and religious differences.’

    It is not actually possible to create ethnic nations in sub saharan Africa because it is too diverse. However even countries that were not burdened with multi ethnic populations inhabiting the same country and the attendant problems with tribalism have come unstuck. Hows somalia coming along?

    • Replies: @EastKekistani
  94. anonymous[426] • Disclaimer says:

    Hey come on now. I will have you know that obwandiyag works very hard to stop people painting all members of his race with one brush while simply calling the entire readership here (minus himself) racist. You cannot expect him to either notice or care about the double standard.

  95. Lin says:

    Low IQ seriously is the least of problems india faces.
    Unemployment is very serious matter there
    –19,000 graduates, postgraduates, MBAs, BTechs apply for 114 street sweepers jobs in the india state of uttar Pradesh(which has 220 million people)

    –More than 25 million people apply for 90,000 Indian railway vacancies
    Official india unemployment figure is very low at 3 to 4 %. They either don’t have the admin apparatus to properly measure it better or lack political will.
    If an indian graduate can’t get a job as a junior clerk and end up as a snale charmer/busker, it’s career change or under-employment(a term the hindu politicians prefer)

  96. Anonymous[223] • Disclaimer says:

    It doesn’t take time. The effect happens immediately with the offspring.

  97. Anonymous[223] • Disclaimer says:

    I have absolutely no doubt that genetically the Indians are just as intelligent as Europeans if not more so.

    Your feelings are contradicted by data. Hopefully, you’ll learn to recognise and deal with cognitive dissonance in the future.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
    , @Edward
  98. APilgrim says:

    Hindu populations of India, probably pay a dietary 10% IQ Tax.

    Infants & children require meat & fat to achieve their full physical & mental capacity.

    Hindus are substantially malnourished, and therefore unnecessarily stupid.

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
    , @rec1man
  99. Willem says:

    Intelligence is associated with class, and race or skin colour is the epiphenomenon.

    Perhaps the writer should do a thought experiment: send his newborn children to a slum India and retrieve newborn children from India to his well to live habitat. Then see who is most ‘intelligent’ after x years.

    Of course it is much nicer to think that other people are stupid by Nature. Makes the smart people really look smart, and no need to change socioeconomic systems.

    It is to be hoped that the future global economic system needs smart people and not unlettered proletarians. If it needs the former, intelligence will grow (by socioeconomic means), if it needs the latter, it will provide low intelligence.

  100. @dearieme

    I think the accepted dates for homo sapiens leaving Africa now go back another 10 or 20 thousand years. It must have taken early migrants to Australia quite a long term from their leaving Africa even if they kept to a shoreline route all the way and it is now suggested that there are evidences of arrival as early as 60,000 years ago.

  101. Anon[921] • Disclaimer says:

    Don’t be so rude on Ron’s über polite and civilised webzine. Of course he is a scientist and as a bottle washer for the great in many famous laboratories he’s very familiar with post docs even if he finds their instructions to him difficult to understand because of their accents.

  102. Anon[921] • Disclaimer says:

    Your real problem is not to persuade people that Islam is not backward. After all most accept that it teaches the up to date knowledge of an illiterate Arab merchant right up to 620 AD. No, in the 21st Century your problem is to persuade most intelligent educated people that the there is any Creator deity who cares for us to believe in.

  103. @Anon

    I doubt the overall average figure of 76 IQ for India makes any more sense than the 82 for Ireland of only a few decades ago which Ron Unz exposed as the nonsense common sense should have noted. The Flynn Effect needs to be considered. So the number of those suited to STEM probably needs to be recalculated. What is more greater accuracy would probably be achieved by making the calculations of the [STEM] Smart Fraction for each caste and subcaste and adding them.

    • Replies: @Truth
  104. @Anonymous

    Though you can claim to have made some relevant observatiions your ratiocination does not achieve the same level. The only respectable use of “I have absolutely no doubt” that you could be conceded is if you had said that you have no doubt that a lot more evidence about Indian (and European) genetics will be forthcoming and it may be that the differences on tests of IQ that still persist will be reduced, even to insignificance, in coming decades. And that doesn’t allow for you being able to reflect intelligently – if you can – on caste. It also ignores the certainty that subcontinental inbreeding by cousin marriage must have an adverse effect on intelligence, and, specifically, IQ scores. Of course it would help if your knowledge of India was enhanced by more serious reading and reflection. I wonder where you got that myth of British starving India from but also how you reconcile it with the exploding population during British rule. As to education – have you ever heard of Macaulay?
    BTW have you seen the data on regular Indian famines dating back hundreds of years compiled by honest climate scientists?

  105. denk says:

    Indians will be running murikka .

    They’r already running Silicon Valley.

    in fact,
    You might choose the 2020 potus from
    Kamala Harris, NIkki Haley, Tulsi Gabbard [allegedly a Hawaiian Hindu].

    Perhaps Indians are super smart, but thats a moot point.
    The simple reason is tptb want Indians running the show .

    This is in line with their larger geopolitical agenda, using India to check China.

    iN FAct, tptb want Indians to run their new world disorder.

    Trump has nominated another Indian for World Bank prez.

    UNHRC, UN’s top human rights office weaponised by uncle sham to browbeat China/Iran..,/myanmar/sri Lanka…, has been dominated by US appointed Indians.

    Indians are the new chosen people.


    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
  106. Vojkan says:

    I usually skip IQ related articles but I read this one because of the bombastic title. When data contradicts my personal experience, I tend to be skeptical of the data and more trusting of my personal experience, made of growing up in a Paris suburb, spending 28 years of my adult life in Paris, having many Arab and black African friends, working 21 years as a software consultant, interacting with hundreds of people of various origins, in environments as diverse as defence – well, that one was French only -, finance, medical imagery, or e-learning of foreign languages. I have even done a contract in Oslo, Norway. Apart from white French folks, I have worked with blacks, Arabs, Indians, Jews, Russians, Germans, and many other nationalities. I disliked the most working with Indians and Jews. The former because they were messy, narrow-minded and over-sensitive, the latter because they always expected their work to be done by somebody else. I just didn’t notice a race or ethnicity based difference in intelligence.

  107. anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:

    There probably is a way to roughly figure out if North Indian high case are much smarter than the average Indian IQ. India has an annual civil service exam with individual results ranked from 1-1000. The exam is about 75% written test and 25% personality test before a panel of interviewers (so it’s not a perfect cognitive test but this is a rough exercise).

    I wonder what percentage of the 1,000 people who pass are North Indian high caste versus North Indian non-high caste?

  108. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:

    You’re either not very good at judging intelligence or you’re suffering from cognitive dissonance and lying to yourself and others. I’ve lived in Europe, Africa and the ME and the differences were stark and unmistakable. In any case, a century worth of data proving racial and ethnic IQ differences can’t be ignored by those who are honestly seeking truth.

  109. @Vojkan

    “…working 21 years as a software consultant, interacting with hundreds of people of various origins, in environments as diverse as defence – well, that one was French only -, finance, medical imagery, or e-learning of foreign languages…”

    “… I just didn’t notice a race or ethnicity based difference in intelligence…”

    That could be due to unrepresentative selection by your kind of work, which attracts only smarter kind of people from all backgrounds.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  110. APilgrim says:

    The need for fat: “The disparagement of dietary fat sometimes obscures the fact that children and adults need fat in their diets. It supplies essential fatty acids (EFA) and aids in the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K. It is a substrate for the production of hormones and mediators. Fat, especially in infancy and early childhood, is essential for neurological development and brain function. Mother’s milk and infant formula supply 40–50% of their energy as fat (Fidler et al. 1998).”

    ‘The Role of Dietary Fat in Child Nutrition and Development: Summary of an ASNS Workshop’,
    John A. Milner Richard G. Allison, The Journal of Nutrition, Volume 129, Issue 11, 1 November 1999, Pages 2094–2105,, Published: 01 November 1999,

    It is unethical to feed children a vegan diet.

  111. üeljang says:

    There are a relatively small number of Indians who have actual recent African ancestry; they are known as Siddi, Sheedi, or Habshi and live mostly in western or southern parts of the country.

    A much greater number of somewhat Negroid-looking Indians belong to ethnic groups (Santhals, Mundas, Hos, Soras, Juangs, Bondas, etc.) who share some linguistic ties with Southeast Asians (Mons, Khmers, Vietnamese, etc.). Members of these groups live mostly in eastern or northern parts of the country and do not have any detectible amount of recent African ancestry, but rather have a great deal of ancestry introduced to prehistoric India by males who originated from some Neolithic culture that most likely flourished originally in some part of what is now central or southern China. These people also tend to have darker skin than the average Indian (though not necessarily any darker than Dravidian South Indians) because they have very little or no genetic influence from European-like invaders from the Eurasian steppe. The combination of Mongoloid-influenced features plus very dark skin (lack of European-ness) results in a vaguely Negroid-like appearance in many individuals.

  112. @APilgrim

    Their ridiculous injunction against eating beef doesn’t help either. The country is full of cows and undernourished people. The solution to their malnourishment epidemic literally stares them in their face.

  113. IQ says:

    I think that needs to be halved. Only 2.14% are at 2 SD above, 0.13% at 3SD above the mean, which means only 26 million Indians have an IQ of 106, and 1.8 million have an IQ of 121 and up, out of a population of 1.2 billion.

  114. IQ stuff says:

    Anyone who’s ever worked with Indians know this is not at all surprising.

  115. @Anon

    “India is a fraud wrapped up in a scam inside a swindle.”

    The old man sure knew although he didn’t quite put it that way- couldn’t keep a cool head when he had to deal with them, it was out with the riding crop and outbursts of invective. But there you go I fixed it.

  116. Vojkan says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    1) My experience starts with 8 years in French public schools of which 1 in Toulouse in the south and 7 in a Paris suburb, in classes averaging 25 pupils with a ratio 15 white European / 10 non-white extra-European. All in all, I’ve been in the same class as maybe a bit less than a hundred kids. On average, black and Arab pupils weren’t worse than white pupils. I systematically topped my class in math grades, second to me always was an Arab kid, a black kid was systematically in the top 5.

    2) Not all people with IT jobs are smart, far from it. Not all people I worked with in 21 years were software developers, far from it. Businesses in need of software developers don’t hire young graduates from both Northern Africa and sub-Saharan Africa or Eastern Europe because they cost less. It’s because they get better quality at a lesser price than with natives. It was the whole idea with Indians, but they didn’t get the quality, whereas with Tunisians, Moroccans, Cameroonians, Romanians, they get the quality. I agree they belong to the smarter class in their countries of origin, but if their smarter ones are over here, what’s left over there?

    3) I believe other factors than race influence IQ, for instance upbringing and training / education environment. I did my military service in the former Yugoslavia while it was still a whole, meaning that there were Croats, Slovenians, Bosnian muslims, Albanians, Serbs, Macedonians in my unit. Bosnian and Albanian muslims were on average much ‘slower’ than the rest of the bunch. Albanian catholics were on average much closer to the rest of the bunch.

    4) Mass emigration of the more educated in every sector of the productive economy – by productive I mean everything that’s not humanities – from their ‘shithole’ countries of origin may be part of the explanation why they fare so bad on tests.

    5) Quality of nutrition may also play a role.

    6) Access to health services may also play a role.

    7) Access to education may also play a role.

    8) Not everybody speaks English as a mother tongue. Tests are tailored for native English speakers. France or Germany have the means to tailor them to native French or German speakers. How adapted are the tests to the native languages of the tested in smaller, poorer countries?

    9) The most significant tests, that are fully language independent, are also the most difficult tests, how many people finish them correctly anywhere?

    I could go and on and on with my list, those are elements that came to my mind at first.

  117. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    Indians are genetically as smart as Europeans? Lol, that is factually not true.

    China had mass starvation and so does N Korea now. None of these countries saw their IQs drop to that if sub-saharan Africans.

    I doubt you are white anyway. Just an Indian larping as a caucasian because he has 1 drop of white blood in him.

  118. @Franklin Ryckaert

    Though it’s bullshit all I can say is good on them! Have you seen the kind of Ph.D.s they do in gender studies, women’s studies, homosexual studies, transexual studies, and whatever other nonsense subjects they come up with in the west churning out thousands of theses, books, papers (like some fraud study about canine rape culture)? Doctors doing sex change and plastic surgery do far more harm than these Islamist morons ever will. They only make me laugh but those bastard pseudoscientists in the west infuriate me.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  119. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    Indians are not a mystery to anyone who has dealt with them.

    The top of their society is very smart, the rest are amongst the lowest IQ in world.

    Elite Indians are just like Jews, but unlike Jews who at least give us good movies and music, I can’t think of a single way Indians benefit the West.

    Indians are also interesting to me for having the worst hygeine. So many Indians I meet have horrible smells.

    Indians are also the physically weakest people on the planet. India has won 1 gold medal with a billion people to choose from. And India has never won a war against a non Indian people.

    • Replies: @Avan
  120. Alden says:
    @Colin Wright

    Goans are either black or the darkest brown that’s discernably brown. If any Portuguese had children they must have sent them back to Portugal.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  121. Alden says:

    Indians are running Microsoft Seattle and its suburbs

    • Replies: @denk
    , @anon
  122. Alden says:
    @Monotonous Languor

    But adjusted for inflation, the Indians salaries are about half of what the programmers made in the early 1980s.
    So Microsoft benefits and it’s consumers lose

  123. Alden says:

    That’s another liberal lie created by 4 women grad students at University of California Communist Anti White Headquarters Berkeley

    The data was flawed the conclusions were nothing more than fraud.

    Skeleton of a fully modern human dating back to 700,000 years was found in Indonesia decades before the anti White Berkeley liberals came up with their fraudulent theory.

    And that Lucy critter of Kenya wasn’t a human ancestor either.

    “Science” is as much in the control of anti White liberals as sociology anthropology women’s studies black studies gay studies and the rest of the crapology studies.

    Don’t bother posting out of Africa nonsense. It’s all a lie.

  124. @Anon

    7% of Indians commit 70% of the crimes in that country.

    Citation needed.

    Indians are the poorest group in Malaysia

    This is untrue. Indians are richer than Malays but poorer than Chinese.

    That said, you’re correct to doubt his bullshit statements about “99% of Indians coming indentured servants”.

    • Replies: @Anon
  125. padre says:

    I find this article as stupid as it can get!There are no stupid or inteligent races or nations, only people!

  126. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Welton ,

    what would say about the collective US IQ and its evolution ?

  127. rec1man says:

    Upper castes = Vegetarian

    Lower Castes = eat fish, chicken,goat

    Untouchables = eat fish, chicken, goat, pork, beef

    Upper Caste IQ > Lower Caste IQ > Untouchable IQ

    Brahmins and Merchants are the highest IQ segments and are vegetarian

    Tamil Brahmins ( highest IQ slice of Brahmins ) and Jains ( highest IQ slice of merchants ) are vegetarian

  128. @Vojkan

    1) How representative for their own ethnic groups were those non-European pupils in your class ? There might have been a selection here : children of more well-to-do parents who are automatically more intelligent.

    2) You discredit your own argument. Non-European IT developers are not hired because they are cheap, they are hired because they are cheap and smart, thus again a non-representative selection.

    3) Good environment (nutrition, healthcare, education, culture, religion) does make a difference, but only to a certain maximum which is determined by heredity.
    Black children adopted by white middle class parents initially score somewhat higher in IQ tests, but later on regress to the average of Blacks. Identical twins reared separately in different environments still score the same in IQ tests, which can only be ascribed to heredity.

    4) Emigration of the more educated from Third World countries is indeed a brain drain on those countries, but does not change their average IQ. Emigration of a few million intelligent Indians does not change the average IQ of the rest of India’s 1,2 billion inhabitants.

    5), 6), 7) see point 3).

    8) IQ tests are nowadays culture-free. For an explanation see YouTube : Jordan Peterson – Goes through IQ tests :

    9) These tests run the gamut from simple to difficult.

    It is difficult for Liberals to accept the idea that all men are not equal and that this cannot be changed by any social engeneering since it is genetically fixed.

    • Replies: @Avan
    , @Vojkan
  129. @Commentator Mike

    With us stupidity of the Cultural Marxist sort is part of our cultural degeneration. With them stupidity of the Islamic sort is part of their “strong” culture.

  130. @rec1man

    It is a myth that man needs to eat meat in order to get enough proteins. Pulses contain enough proteins and Indians eat pulses (“dahl”) in abundance.

  131. APilgrim says:

    Genetics are the primary determinant of individual IQ score potential.

    Health > Nutrition > Education > Peers > and Exercise contribute to individual IQ scores.

    Lack of inoculations, malnutrition, poor schools, and the like, are societal detriments.

    I don’t particularly care if India continues to pay the 10% malnutrition IQ Tax.

  132. Erebus says:

    … fully modern human dating back to 700,000 years was found in Indonesia…

    Umm, shouldn’t that be 70,000 yrs?

  133. Anonymous [AKA "altered egos"] says: • Website

    this is bs. i’ve lived third of my life in usa, and third in india. indians are no dumber than americans for sure.

  134. Avan says:

    Indians is not a race.About half of these race don’t contribute to anything and they’re slum dwellers.There are Indians who are Mongloid as well,where do they fall in?Indian are broken down to subraces and caste. This is like combining all of Europe+North African and say average IQ of Europe is 90.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @DB Cooper
    , @denk
  135. denk says:

    murikkan tptb want Indians to mind the store at home.
    To maintain interoperability, this template is also replicated throughout the 5lies and other ‘allies’.
    All seeded with Indians in high places, IT, banking….military.



    NZ PM, Jacinda.
    Canada minister of defence.

    Singapore has already been overrun.
    These days, visitors to the island might wonder
    if he has landed in Mumbai by mistake !

    tip of an iceberg.

    tptb’s using its Indian WMM to take over the
    world by stealth.

    • Replies: @Avan
  136. sarz says:

    How did an article so stupid and misinformed make its way here? A personal observation: I spend several months a year in the Indian state of Goa, and since becoming aware, thanks to Ron Unz’s work, of the relevsnce of genetics to political questions, I came to the conclusion that despite the extremely low IQs of native Goans the charm of the place had something to do with their intrinsic kindness. Keeping that in mind one is unusually tolersnt of bad driving, as I remarked to my daughter this winter many tens of times. I would guess the average native Goan IQ is in the 70s, and so would be that of the author. In the latter case, however, I am not aware of any notable redeeming qualities.

  137. Avan says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    1)I agree but as representative as it is,Indians on average at least the 40 million diaspora living overseas tend to do well.It may be that Indian national IQ are pulled down by slum dwellers.

    2)I agree as well

    3)It has been proven that Indian IQ in whatever nation they are didn’t regress.Despite being there for 4-5 generations like in South Africa,Malaysia,Uganda.In fact their IQ increase as Flynn studies indicated.It’s not a mystery because Indian is NOT a race and has many subraces alongside with caste as well.Based on education attainment and median income,Indian average IQ score in Malaysia,UK,Canada,Uganda,UAE,HK,South Africa is somewhere between 96-102.Indian in Singapore,US and Australia tend to be 108-110 due to selective immigration.That’s 40 million ppl right there with that IQ.

    4)We’ll see but despite the brain drain,Indian economy is better today than they have ever been before.Everything about India is improving linearly from GDP to HDI to population of millionaire and middle class growth.Including even the poo issue and cleanliness.

    8)IQ is indeed culture free but some culture(East Asian) have an advantage due to their writing system being pattern based.There’s similarities between East Asian logogram and Raven Matrices IQ test.This is probably why Asian score higher on Raven Matrices but lower on Verbal

  138. Avan says:

    Dude there’s data on this.Just google Median income by race.Indians is between Malay and Chinese.If you digitspan their IQ based on income despite the affirmative action that benefit the Malay, Indian IQ is 98.There are 4 Indian billionaires in Malaysia Forbes 50 and 0 Malay billionaires.

    Indians are NOT the poorest group in Malaysia because government census just prove it’s not.Are we going by Malaysian goverment statistics or Al Jazeera claim?This is the data..

  139. Vojkan says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    1) French kids – all social classes, foreign kids, all working class, except me partially, as my mother was already a polyglot, and earned a bachelor’s degree in History of Art in the mean time.

    2) It’s not meant to be representative. Look at it this way, if we are on average smarter than them, then the smarter among us should be smarter than the smarter among them. It’s just not the case.

    8) I have done two ‘official’ IQ-tests in my life. One 32 years ago, before my military service as part of a series of other psychological and medical tests to check my aptitude for the army, in Serbian, and one online MENSA test, 15 years ago, in English. Oddly enough, my score at the test in English was 20+ points higher than my score at the test in Serbian. I made the effort to watch the video and to say the least, I’m not convinced. Different environments from early childhood just lead to different wirings in the brain.

    I am anything but a liberal. I know too well how dysfunctional socialism is. I don’t dispute the fact that intelligence is partly genetical. However, take into account all the mitigating factors and I’m not sure that the gap will be as wide as can be inferred from test returns. Besides, I don’t believe average IQ to be significant for the advancement of a society, I believe great advances are primarily due to individuals who are far above average. Anyway, if white people are so clever, how is it possible that we have totally illogical stuff like gender theory, like the feminist / LGBT thought police, that we are taught what we are allowed to think by raving lunatics, while the ‘lesser’ races don’t have such problems? How is it possible if we are so clever that our societies lean left? From a logical point of view, that sure is counter-intuitive.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  140. Avan says:

    I dislike that Singapore is becoming more Indian as well.They kiss ass white people and would only help their own kind.No other race nepotism more than Indian.But again this characteristic is very Jewish like,the fact that there Indians are able to compete Chinese for the top spots and implement nepotism prove they’re not low IQ.The 40 million diaspora is a threat because if we treat them as low IQ,then they slowly snuck in and replace us just like how they did in Singapore and gulf countries.Indian has manipulated the gulf countries to favour India by sneaking into top position.Now every UAE&Saudi economic policies benefit India

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Medvedev
  141. sarz says:

    Kashmiri snd Saraswat brahmins are traditional meat eaters and Bengali brahmins consider fish an honorary vegetable. And by now, almost all the new generations of brahmins have meat on some occasion or other. You can almost take it for granted that brahmin guests will eat meat, but it’s better to make sure in advance.

    • Replies: @rec1man
  142. Lin says:

    “Upper castes = Vegetarian

    Lower Castes = eat fish, chicken,goat

    Untouchables = eat fish, chicken, goat, pork, beef..”
    Gross distortion. The correction scenario:
    Upper castes = Vegetarian + milk
    “Lower Castes = eat fish, chicken,goat.”.
    That’s BS. The average Indians in US can tell you meat in US are cheaper than those in india. The average Indians in india consume just a few kg of meat/yr

    “Untouchables = eat fish, chicken, goat, pork, beef.”.
    Shear nonsense;The average Dalits have poor and insufficient diet.
    The bottom lines are:
    1)Indians have very low income/capita & can’t afford much meat
    2)Developed countries on average have lower bulk food production cost than developing countries due to higher degree of mechanization and better agri-tech.
    (Developed japan & developing Brazil seem to be the notable exception)
    Agriculture in india is highly subsidized. Both the BJP &the Congress party in india want to write off farmers’ debt.
    3)Indian women suffer serious anemia because of low red meat intake

    • Replies: @rec1man
  143. I won’t get into the arguments about IQ but one thing I’ve noticed about Indians (that I’ve known both in America and overseas in 3 different countries) is that once they get to know you and let their guard down, they all have one quality in common: extreme egotism. Most of it seems based on their perception and claim of being “high class” and thus better than everyone else. They aren’t satisfied with blowing their own horn and crowing over themselves until their throats are raw- they have to have an entire brass section blasting away at full volume. So obnoxious!

    In my experience, telling an Indian that no one is better than anyone else and that we’re all created equal is a sure fire method of causing them to pitch a fit worse than a two year old deprived of an ice cream cone. Either that or they get so horribly offended they refuse to have anything to do with you anymore because you insulted them. How dare you not consider them to be the crème de la crème!Yes, I understand that everyone has different experiences and we base our reactions on those experiences but, for me, my experience with Indians tells me to avoid Indians and have nothing to do with them. Their egotism is just too toxic.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @Anonymous
  144. New Rome (America) under its Nero (Trump) is burning and the morons are worried about a shithole which has survived shysters (British) and charlatans (Muslims)… it shouldn’t matter if Indians are smart or not but it ought to matter whether Caput Mundi will survive against the real enemies, within and without!

  145. Numinous says:

    The Parsis and Jains are largely descended from Persian admixture

    Parsis, yes. Jains are completely indigenous to India though.

  146. Numinous says:

    There are a number of stupid comments on this website, but this has to take the cake. The commenter’s assertions about where inbreeding is higher, what the percentage of such-and-such group is, which part of the country has more hangups about caste, are all wrong.

    Even more hilariously, the commenter claims that the association of higher caste with smartness is a canard spouted by high-caste Indians on these forums, whereas any regular reader knows that it is the writers and many of the commentors (who are invested in white identity, and consider higher caste Indians to have remnants of white ancestry from long ago) who have assiduously created that impression.

    Anyway, this entire discussion of IQ and countries is completely lame. Measured IQ is so highly correlated with poverty and education levels that any sane observer that is not blinded by bigotry will focus on social and governmental issues, unlike the moronic commentariat here that jumps to racial preening.

  147. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    Indians are not a uniform race like the Chinese are, but you can still generalize characteristics and yes their IQ.

    Your use of Europe + Africa is a poor analogy. Europe itself is a grouping of different people, and people generalize European IQ and white IQ even though there are significant differences between the peoples. Think of how different a Jew is from an Irishman.

    Indians as a whole are a low IQ people with a small smart fraction.

    Anyone who has been to India can see this. Look at how barbaric Indias attitude is towards women is.

    • Replies: @Avan
    , @Avan Tennant
  148. denk says:


    In SEA, even South Asia, Indian nepotism is legendary.
    If you’ve an Indian dept chief, in no time most if not all of the deputies would be replaced with his own clan. Often the hapless out going local manager had to train his replacement until he’s up to speed.

    the fact that there Indians are able to compete Chinese for the top spots and implement nepotism prove they’re not low IQ

    This is also largely abetted by govn policies that’s obliged to follow the Washington template, favoring ‘foreign talents’ from India over locals, who’r at least equally good if not better.

    • Replies: @Avan
  149. @eah


    Unlike others who have dealt with Indians in the IT profession in the current environments I got to see two sides of this issue.

    On the one hand, those professionals from India who came to the US prior to 2000 were some of the best professionals I ever had the pleasure to work with. Smart, friendly, and always willing to lend a hand there wasn’t a single one of these gentlemanly and lady personnel that did not impress me.

    It was a lot of fun experiencing their delicious food as we went out together on many occasions to the growing Indian cuisine in New York City.

    After 2000 became another story altogether when outsourcing and importing of Human capital from India increased dramatically as a result of US corporate greed. The Indian government complied letting many Indian firms send poorly trained bodies over to US shores.

    Now I began to see a profound change in the nature of the people that were being sent over for US IT work. No longer all that friendly such people were also not nearly as capable as their earlier predecessors. Many were good at technical details but had little capability in developing full scale systems and applications. Indian managers, who I had previously had much respect for, now were nothing more than tyrants in suits completely subordinated to a project’s deadline whether it made sense or not.

    From the smaller but noticeable percentage of Indian professionals who came prior to 2000 now US corporations were hiring such people at breakneck speed for the simple reason that these newer professionals could so easily be exploited.

    The end result was that the US software industry, which was once a crown jewel in the United States and respected the world over started to deteriorate at an ever increasing pace.

    However, this end result had little to do with the actual people that were being sent but more to do with the unmitigated greed between US and Indian corporations, both of which only saw dollar signs as the end of a means. Everyone, both US citizen and foreign professionals in the technical trenches suffered as a result.

    As the writer well describes, the average IQ of India is a result of a potpourri of cultures living in disparate geographers descended from varying groups of predecessors. And like the US today, the Indian government has taken advantage of the lack of cohesion in its cultural fabric to exploit those
    who are easily exploitable.

    Nonetheless, Indian women are gorgeous in many respects and quite intelligent and enjoy a cuisine that has become a favorite around the world.

    Unfortunately, the Indian government has been known for many years to be probably the most corrupt on Earth and does nothing to raise the education and living standards of the nation as a whole. If they did, who could they exploit?

    • Replies: @SOL
  150. Truth says:

    Wrong again, Sport. The South Indian Brahmins, the most intelligent large group in India, are quite dark.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  151. Truth says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I doubt the overall average figure of 76 IQ for India makes any more sense than the 82 for Ireland of only a few decades ago

    Go to a Phillies, or a Red Sox game sometime and sit in the bleachers.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  152. FvS says:

    High IQ Indians belong in India. Their country needs them badly. As a people, they need to focus less on mobile phones and more on basic sanitation. Luckily, it seems they’re beginning to head in the right direction, though with a long way to go. India remind me of Nigeria. Many of the intelligent individuals leave, and they are the ones that the rest of the world are exposed to. But you cannot judge a people just by their most intelligent. You must take them as a whole, and in doing so, Indians (and Nigerians) are found wanting.

    • Replies: @Avan
  153. DB Cooper says:

    “There are Indians who are Mongloid as well,where do they fall in?”

    Those Mongoloid in the northeast (collectively called the seven sister states) don’t want to be Indians and don’t want to have anything to do with India. Had not the British conquered South Asia they would never have been ruled by Indians. There are many insurgencies operating in the northeast fighting for independence and India is brutally suppressing them with an iron hand. AFSPA (Armed Force Special Power Act) is imposed on vast swathe of the northeast. AFSPA gives the state the power to detain or kill anyone with impunity. AFSPA is imposed on area India deemed ‘disturbed’, such as the northeast and Kashmir.

    • Replies: @Avan
    , @Avan
  154. DB Cooper says:
    @Non PC Infidel

    From my experience Indians that has been in the US for a long time look down on newly arrived Indians.

  155. @eah

    My experience come from dealing with them in the health care sector. Academically, the overwhelming majority of Indians were what I called “book smart”. They understood, very well, the theory behind the topic, and were good at making people believe their statements. They were, however, not nearly as good at putting their knowledge into practice. At the GP physician level, that wasn’t an issue, because much of the manual dexterity pieces could be done by other physicians who were specialists, or by other occupations, such as nurses, physiotherapists, etc. Interestingly, the same held true in the “lesser” professional occupations. That is not to say that they were incompetent, only that their manual dexterity skills were much less than their book learning skills. The Whites, on the other hand, seemed to be more equal in their mental and manual capabilities.

    • Replies: @Avan
  156. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Non PC Infidel


    You can be assured that if Indians did have a high IQ they would all be wearing T-Shirts that advertised this.

    But since the facts are facts, you get a lot of IQ denialism even though what you see on the ground in India matches up with their IQ.

  157. Avan says:
    @DB Cooper

    I’m not here to discuss politics because I dont give a shit about that.I’m talking about their genotype IQ.There are different phenotypes in India not just one.Also I heard the same with Punjabi wanting their own country,Tamil wanting their own country,Kashmiri wanted their own country.India as a country was a mistake to begin with

  158. @Truth

    Are you saying any more than that a remarkably high concentration of those content with their far left position on the Bell Curve can sometimes be observed? I fail to see what that has got to do with my comment.

    • Replies: @Truth
  159. Avan says:

    Sure but you don’t see this behaviour outside in India at least on statistics. I mean Mauritius is 70% it’s relatively safe.I agree with you mostly but I don’t see this “violence” on paper.India rape per capita is still not as high as one might claim.Now I know many claim that most go unreported but the same thing could be said for Sub saharan countries as well that have lower urbanisation rate.Considering that Indians in UAE despite 2.8 million people don’t suffer the same crime rate as African American anywhere,their IQ isn’t in the 80’s.

    Europe+Africa isn’t poor analogy because India have (Caucasoid,Mongoloid,Negroid,Australoid) people living in that country.India was never meant to be a country.How of a disaster would it be if all of EU is ruled under one party and follow the same rule of law.

  160. Avan says:

    Oh please.Not with the anecdotals.I dont give a shit about anecdotals because same can be said about Russian medics which Ive heard as well.What I give a shit about is statistics.As long as the CGPA which include practical is high,I can’t regard any anecdotals.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  161. KenH says:

    yet vast areas of the country lack electricity, running water, and even people who can read. What does this say about Indian IQ?

    And India is a land of so many people but so few commodes. Large numbers of Indians still defecate outside and there doesn’t seem to be a national imperative to build more bathroom facilities.

    It is India’s ethnic diversity which explains why it displays extremes: intellectual brilliance yet grinding poverty. This may be a problem for India, in that it is the population’s average intelligence—

    Let’s send AOC over to India to pitch a green new deal. Our negro population combined with importing over 20% of Mexico’s population and allowing mass third world immigration to continue unabated is causing America to experience the same problems with bell curve extremes which is leading to cacophonous calls for socialism to sort it all out.

    There are highly intelligent Indians in several fields, but overall they’re a bit overrated. I’ve had some experience with the “brilliant” H1B’s and most aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. People I know who’ve had to outsource projects to India for cost reduction purposes say that it takes them three times as long to complete tasks and projects then the work they send back to the U.S. is often riddled with errors that has to be corrected by “dumb” white Americans. Any cost savings goes out the window.

    America can live without Indians and doesn’t need them for anything. We need to stop being a safety valve for India’s fast breeding population and Indians who don’t like living in their own nation. Indians should focus on trying to improve their own nation.

    • Replies: @Avan
    , @Avan
  162. Avan says:

    Yes I’m aware that there’s tension with Singaporean Indian and India Indian as well despite being of the same race.I don’t know who are these shadow organisation that wants Indian in US and Singapore to be in every top political cabinet and companies top executive team.Even in US 2020 politics,3 most popular candidates are Indian origin.Kamala Harris,Nikki Haley and Tulsi Gabbard

  163. Avan says:
    @DB Cooper

    India as a country is a mistake in the first place.The Tamils want their own country.The punjabis,Kashmiris need I go on.Considering that each state has a population of about 50-80 million people,it’s much wiser to split the nation into these states.

  164. FvS says:

    Islam seems to have a retarding effect on pretty much every population where it is practiced. What can be said of Hinduism in this regard? I don’t know enough about it.

    • Replies: @Avan
  165. Avan says:

    Comparing Nigeria to India is not fair.Because India has the caste system which is a kind of social eugenics not to forget the Aryan migration.India also had many high IQ genetic inflow towards the country.Whether it’s the Parsis,Jewish traders,Greek settlers.If Ashkenazi Jews in Israel can make the country have relatively high gdp per capita,India small minority of “Ashkenazi intelligence” if they were to go back can at least make the poohole decent

  166. @Vojkan

    Assuming you are right about great advances being primarily due to individuals who are far above average (and thereby apparently rejecting the “smart fraction theory” of La Griffe du Lion) you still have to face it that a 100 IQ population will produce a lot more of them than a 90 average IQ population. It is probably equally true if you compare Africans and Eurasians or Brahmins and Dalits.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  167. Avan says:

    Most H1B are actually average Indian who got in by nepotism.But again I keep saying you can judge a people based on their behaviour otherwise NOBODY would deem the Russians,Ukrainians as being high IQ.Behaviour is mostly cultural.Also I’ve heard some people say as well “Chinese aren’t that smart,they don’t know X or Y”.Stop treating them by behaviour.Go by stats and paper.See how well they perform on SAT or AP or CGPA or GMAT to really know

  168. Avan says:

    Improvement in India have been linearly increasing which includes the toilet revolution which they claim have built 110 million in the last 4 yrs.At least they’re conscious about the memes and taking action.Economically India is doing extremely well and the momentum is increasing based on IMF and Worldbank forecast.I say give India for another 5 years.I actually changed my mind back in 2015 when I see recent stats that show Flynn effect in India society.You can see the improvement in HDI and reduction in poverty rate(over 300 mil people lifted out in the last 8 years).

    • Replies: @KenH
    , @Medvedev
  169. Avan says:

    What I do know is South Indian Muslim are more financially well off than South Indian Hindus..Jains and Indian Christian I would regard as more intelligent and approachable.In fact,Indians that are NOT hindus tend to be more intelligent on average and less egomaniac.

  170. @Avan

    You are unfair to that commenter whose evidence wasn’t the individual stories (anecdotes) proposed as evidence but rather his observations over many instances a bit like what teachers learn of kids from teaching a lot of them over the years.

  171. “…the only Indian citizen to win a Nobel Prize in the hard sciences… intellectual brilliance… ”

    A word of caution – those ‘brilliant’ coastal Southern Indian elites… really are not all that bright, on average. They are not stupid, but they are not brilliant, either – more modern Greek than modern German. How many of those Indian scientists in the USA are really at the forefront of major advances? The fact there has been only one Nobel winner, in 1930, pretty much says it all.

  172. J1234 says:

    How can a country with an IQ only six points above that of Sub-Saharan Africa churn out scientists of such high calibre and even begin to take people into space?

    The answer: it is not merely in the geographical sense that India is a subcontinent—defined as a large mass of land separated by mountains from the rest of the continent. It is also continent-like in terms of its population.

    I know very little about India and Indians, but I did work several years at an American technical company owned by an Indian family, so I find some of the information in this article interesting in the context of my experience. There were also a few non-family Indian immigrants working at this company, as well, and I found them to be bright and decent people.

    I could be wrong, but it was my impression that there was something resembling a meritocratic ethic regarding emigration to the US among these people. In other words, they didn’t want the worst of the worst of their fellow countrymen coming to the US with them, the way that black immigrants from central Africa sometimes do. I’m sure sub-Saharans have their ethnic animosities and would prefer that many of their countrymen stay home, too, but the meritocratic element is missing. I got the impression that Indians felt it was important that only (or mostly) the right people (in terms of status, education and character) came from India to the US.

    There was one darker skin Indian among them, and I felt the lighter skinned Indians didn’t quite give him the respect that they showed white Americans (even crass stupid ones.) On the other hand, this darker skinned guy didn’t quite have the job skills that the others had, so that may of had something to do with it.

  173. Moi says:

    Relax, this article is worse than crap. It was Muslims that built the great monuments of India–what white tourists like to see.

  174. Thomm says:

    Wrong again, Sport. The South Indian Brahmins, the most intelligent large group in India, are quite dark.

    Careful! Exhibiting any basic knowledge about Indians might get you branded as an Indian by the WN 70-IQ crowd. This has happened to me, Thorfinsson, and DB Cooper.

    But you are right. The idiots who conflate caste, skin color, and IQ have never gone outside into the real world. If the high IQ Indians in America are high IQ because of light skin, I haven’t seen them. The typical high IQ STEM Indian is short, dark, and (I think) South Indian.

    • Replies: @FvS
    , @jeff stryker
  175. @anonymous

    Talking about the relation of Islam and intelligence, it would be interesting to know what the IQ of “Allah” is. Judging from his blundering “revelations” in the Qur’an, I am afraid his IQ would not be on the right side of the Bell curve :

    • LOL: APilgrim
  176. Truth says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Lots of Irish in Boston and Philly, and well, Red Sox are a yuppie experience now, but going to Fenway in the 80s was…interesting.

  177. Anonymous[161] • Disclaimer says:

    The problem with Indians is that they themselves follow the whole white is better mentality. So the author is not that far from the views typically held by Indians themselves. Indians just don’t like when outsiders talk about it.

    Indians, even very dark Indians who are near black, see themselves as Caucasians. They think they are like Italians just a little darker. Indians who have just a trace of white blood in them will make that their defining characteristic of their entire identity. It is bizarre and very cringey having to see this.

    At their core, all Indians desperately want to be white

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
    , @FvS
  178. Handel says:

    If we use the following definition of intelligence from “Engineering of Mind” by James S. Albus, page 6:
    “… the ability of a system to behave appropriately in an uncertain environment, where appropriate behavior is that which maximizes the likelihood of success in achieving the system’s goal.”
    then India as a whole could be the most intelligent country in the world.

    I am referring to the likelihood of success in the paper “Economic Principals” by Ray Dalio with “Economic Health Indices by Country, and the Prognoses that They Imply” of some 20 countries, see page 45. India rates first by Dalio’s reckoning. This 134 page study can be found at:

    Maybe Welton’s view on intelligence, Indians and India takes too few variables into account.

  179. rec1man says:

    Mainstream Brahmins are vegetarian and Tamil Brahmins, the highest IQ segment of India are vegetarian

    • Replies: @sarz
    , @anonymous
    , @anonymous
  180. anon[209] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    IQ does explain these kinds of phenomena- like Donisaur walked with human . God created world in 6 days and took a break on 7 th day to attend a church .
    IQ also explains the acceptance of thirst behaviors from politicians that Israel is our best ally, it shares all our values , it is democratic ,it is God ‘s plan, it is fighting against terrorism and is fighting our wars .
    IQ also explains this dichotomy – Saddam has nukes . He will attack if we don’t attack him. But he won’t if we attacked him.
    This is the best IQ – test I use now for white American – What would you do with your pistols and rifles if someone came to attack you . Hundred point( 100 ) goes to the guy who says ‘ I will ask my neighbor who is not friendly with me to hide it for me ‘.

    Then one more what IQ those people have who knows all about awaful situation in Venezuela but are surprised to hear that there is some kind of problem in France and still believe they have free press like the way they believe they have best Heath care and education.

    High IQ Amercans now approve of Bush more than they did when he was president ,because he paints well. But won’t that be for artistry and painting ?

    Then there is this IQ explaining voting pattern for Bush – Bush wanted to smite Gog or Magig because God told him so. Blair found out while taking money from Jerusalem that God was with him when decided to attack Iraq where high IQ Graham was sending more books than the muster seeds because he thought that God was asking him to show concern for democracy and Heaven reaching capacity of Iraqis .

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  181. iffen says:

    Indians in the West must be repatriated.

    Back to the Southeast and East? Where will we go?

  182. rec1man says:

    Untouchables are Untouchable, because they continued to eat beef after it got banned 2500 years ago

    The mark of an untouchable is beef eating, thats what separates an untouchable from a low caste

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Lin
  183. KenH says:

    That’s great. I hope their ongoing war on public defecation continues to pay dividends.

    Regarding GDP and economic development, I want India doing well so their people will desire to stay in India and stop emigrating to the West and perhaps some in the West will wish to return home.

    We whites in America and the West want our countries back. It’s nothing personal.

    • Agree: FvS
  184. @Anonymous

    You hit the nail on the head. Now you also can understand why Indians behave so seemingly “arrogantly” towards Whites, which is observed by all people in the West who interact with them. It is not really “arrogance”, it is a compensated inferiority complex. That is also the reason why they keep bragging about the “superiority” of their culture, a culture that is so dysfunctional that they all want to flee from it.

  185. FvS says:

    The typical high IQ STEM Indian is short, dark, and (I think) South Indian.

    Though, not negroid. They appear to be caucasoid, mongoloid, and proto-australoid hybrids. South Indians are usually thought to be less attractive than North Indians, are smaller in stature, and not very athletic compared to the rest of the world. As some commenters have noted, this seems to have resulted in an inferiority complex, and they try to overcompensate where they can…in matters of intelligence and the pursuit of wealth. This chip on their shoulder is why they get offended so easily. They remind me of Jews, and they practice the same kind of ethnic nepotism to boot.

    Given South India’s population of around 300 million (1 billion India total), the Indian-American population of around 4 million, and the level of immigration/emigration restrictions, I think it’s safe to say that there is significant selection bias going on. Thus, we should be cautious about reading too much into Indian-American performance.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  186. FvS says:

    You see the same behavior with mestizos in Mexico.

  187. rec1man says:

    The photo is of CV.Raman , a Tamil Brahmin, vegetarian

    In his native state of Tamil Nadu, the 98% meat eating Tamil dravidians need a 69% quota to compete vs the 2% vegetarian Tamil brahmins

  188. SOL says:
    @Steve Naidamast

    “Indian women are gorgeous in many respects and quite intelligent.”

    Some of them are attractive, even the darker-skinned ones, when they are young but they tend to gain weight and hit the wall fast, unlike the East Asian women.

    • Replies: @üeljang
  189. rec1man says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Per Razib,

    Tamil Brahmins like all South Brahmins are a blend of 75% North Brahmins and 25% upper caste dravidians

  190. songbird says:

    Quite interesting. That hierarchy of foods is really the opposite of what I’d expect.

    Believe I have heard Buddhism and Lent (which used to be not just Fridays) explained as being caused by rarity of meat. Buddhists being permitted to eat animals that die without being slaughtered. Though, I recall hearing of lands in Tibet that were rich in wild game. Maybe, the theory is wrong, after all.

    I have never eaten goat but it is stereotyped in the West as being not very tasty. Chinese in general seem very fond of pork, at least as much as Europeans. I’m not sure about goat.

  191. SOL says:

    I’d like to see a breakdown of Indian IQ by religion – Hindu, Muslim, and Christian.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  192. songbird says:

    What about things like milk, cheese, butter, and eggs? Are they commonly consumed by upper castes?

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  193. @anon

    There is a difference between intelligence and naivety. Some people can be intelligent and naive at the same time. Other people can be stupid but sceptical at the same time.
    Americans are not stupid. The highly evolved technological civilization they have created demonstrates that, but their exclusively practical attitude makes them uninterested in theoretical thinking, be it in the realms of politics, culture, religion or philosophy. Therefore they rather “outsource” theoretical thinking to Think Tanks or other “experts”. Needless to say this is a situation where shysters can thrive. Jewish “neo-cons” or multi-millionaire “tele-evangelists” come to mind. This combination of practical intelligence with theoretical naivety can be explained if we keep in mind that the ancestors of the Americans did not immigrate into a country but into a wilderness, which had to be created into a country. In such a situation, only practicality counted.

    • Replies: @anon
  194. Indians on average are of moderate intelligence but it is offset by their extreme tribalism, ethnic solidarity and a general disdain for such ‘frivolous’ things as ethics and morality. On top of that, they know how to game a supposedly ‘easy’ democracy [more like oligarchy] like ours [after all they’ve got much more complex systems to navigate back home].

    They’ve got their men at the top and the middle at most large tech companies [the lower ranks are also increasingly dominated by their folks]. For people in the industry, all of us have seen what putting a couple of Indians at the top of a company entails. Gradual replacement of whitey with pajeet until the power is completely consolidated and then it’s bombay from sea to shining sea. Many white folks who had crushing debt man counters at starbucks or flip burgers while these hostile foreigners live the good life which most of them don’t deserve. Libertarians would think this is free markets at work which it isn’t. Secondly our forefathers didn’t tame this land so these folks can lord over something they had NO hand in developing.

    These Indians know our democracy is for sale to the highest bidder and they have a real love for that sort of thing [ oh these gora politicians love them some baksheesh too?? fantastic ]. After having taken our high trust system for a ride of it’s time, they’ve got the legal immigration system completely game and now we see the low tier Indians also making a beeline for these united states [courtesy their cousins and half brothers who now command a large portion of the tech sector].

    They’ve got a powerful lobby up in DC that is on a buying spree with a whole lot of congress critters for sale. Luckily most people saw through this and took down Kevin Yoder who literally wanted to open the floodgates to these Indians. Unfortunately their pockets they are way too deep [from all the ill gotten wealth legally skimmed from hard working citizens] and they’ve got a couple more senators on the leash. Unfortunately for us, they are very rich, cunning, vicious and are quite adept at navigating the dystopia that currently represents our society all the while staying away from petty crime thus being ‘model citizens’. If things continue as they are, they’d be soon at the top the pyramid and that will be disastrous for heritage Americans. If having a cunning (((tribe))) rule the roost wasn’t enough, this would completely finish off the nation as we know if [whatever remains of it that is]

    Having known their kind from a very long time and at close contact. mass Indian immigration will completely change our nation the way Salvadorean or Mexican immigration can never will [although they all must be stopped]. Privately, they seem to be suffering from massive inferiority complex which they then overcompensate against by projecting an air of aloofness and fake superiority, Which explains the stereotype of the rich rude Indian american. Overall not a great people to allow truckloads of them in

    • Replies: @KenH
    , @Anon
  195. @Thomm

    Bangalore, the Silicone Valley of India, is located in Tamil Nadu. But this is left-brained intelligence. Brahmin, like Jews, score high on verbal dexterity.

    In Kerala, the Dravidian Nair expelled the Brahmins in the 1950’s.

    South India is nowhere near as poor or corrupt as North India. They are nearly different countries.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  196. @songbird

    Yes, with some exceptions like onions, which Jains don’t eat. And Punjabis of various castes will eat meat.

    Muslim Indians will eat almost anything that moves.

  197. @SOL

    Indian Brahmin and higher-caste Indians will generally be higher IQ.

    Muslims are descended from low-caste converts. Christian Indians, more prevalent below the Hindi line, are descended from much lower cast Tamils and South Indians.

    The higher castes never had a reason to convert. They always enjoyed wealth and privileges within the caste system.

    St. Thomas Christians of Kerala would be the exception. They are apparently Jews from Syria who immigrated to Kerala in the fifth century who became Christian converts after marrying Brahmin women. They are very intelligent.

  198. @FvS

    South Indians joke that Punajbi are unintelligent. Punjabi are the equivalent of Polish jokes in India. There is a great deal of dislike between Punjabi North Indians and Dravidian South Indians, with the former referring to the latter as “Kallu” and the South Indians dismissing Punjabi as crude unintelligent Arabs.

  199. KenH says:
    @Thomm's Purple haired femiNAZI

    Most of the Indians I’m acquainted with are arrogant, clannish and tribalistic which is sometimes belied by a phony niceness and plastic smile. When they are promoted to management positions they usually become condescending taskmasters who are almost uniformly despised by whites and other non-Indians who have the misfortune of reporting to them. But they usually try hiring as many ethnic allies (other Indians) as they can get away with. Ethnic nepotism is a near art form with Indians.

    Even though the Indian population doesn’t engage in street violence or adhere to an intolerant and violent religion they still constitute a hostile outgroup.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  200. @iffen


    You can easily return to India because you are recent immigrants whose parents or grandparents immigrated.

    Your parents are citizens of India.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  201. @KenH

    Indians do engage in street violence and gang activity, but not the castes who live in the United States. You’ll see more in Gulf States and in India street crime/violence is fairly common.

    You’ll also see more of it in Canada. Mostly from Sikhs.

    In the case of the US, it has imported an intelligentsia of clerics and merchants. Of course these Indians are practiced bureaucrats.

    • Replies: @Tungarian
    , @KenH
  202. @Alden

    They are known as Luso and because Goa was a colony of Portugal until 1970 they all immigrated. In general, the Portuguese did not intermarry with the Indians like they did with Brazilian Natives or blacks.

    It was largely an absentee colony. Few Portuguese ever lived in Goa.

    Anglo-Indians are not much of an important group in India either.

  203. Tungarian says:
    @jeff stryker

    You’ll also see more of it in Canada. Mostly from Sikhs.

    In the case of the US, it has imported an intelligentsia of clerics and merchants. Of course these Indians are practiced bureaucrats.

    Brampton and Surrey is teeming with Sikh gangs and of late, many Australian women have become victim to long haul Sikh truckers on the prowl, just getting a bit of pussy out on the lonely roadways.

    Nevertheless using the term ‘intelligentsia’ for those US Indians is a gross mis-representation. Most of them are more cunning and street smart than being genuinely intelligent [except a few]. Germans and other nordics are quite intelligent on average but display stunning naivety. These Indians in the US could be from what can be termed as managerial/peon class back home which is why they stay away from street crime. Whats a couple thousand dollars [at max] when you could be raking in the millions [John kapoor, Neeraj Sharma, Kumar Samal, Kishore Kumar etc]. There are literally hundreds more if you care to search. This is just scratching the surface.

    As more and more dot heads land here, we’ll be seeing more Kishores, Kapoors and what have you convert this into another India as they usually end up in the top tier income bracket [having the utmost influence on our “leadership”]. Changing the character of a nation at the top is usually a lot more devastating to the general population that doing that at the bottom. The ashkenazim who are our real rulers are a prime example of that

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  204. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm's Purple haired femiNAZI

    Yep. It’s like you change the firmware vs changing a distant peripheral device. You change the firmware and you have a totally new device as opposed to replacing a peripheral like a disk drive [or ssd]. You can feel the difference a bit but it doesn’t change what that device is or how it “behaves”

  205. sarz says:

    You are talking about traditional diets. My upstairs neighbor in Goa is a Tam Brahm who quite happily eats meat, including beef. So did his parents, who were Marxists. Factors such as westernization and sanskritization play their role among different classes and castes. As does urbanization.

  206. @Tungarian

    “Australian women have become victim to long-haul truckers”

    Young Australians are hands-down the most naive and exploitable whites on the planet earth because Australia was designed to be a middle-class pleb egalitarian society by English settlers tired of the nuances of the English class system divisions-all great for Australian standards of living but makes for the most gullible young people on gap year holidays.

    Its no surprise Australians are raped everywhere.

    Punjabi ARE DESCENDED from rapists and looters-Huns, Scythian, Greek homos-warriors who serviced Alexander. No surprise rape runs through their gene pool.

    “Stunning Nordic naivete”

    True. This is why Minnesota is less corrupt than Miami or New Jersey with its Cubans and Italians. Nobody ever said Norwegians were street smart.

    My Tempe roommate was a Finnish-American musician from St. Paul and Mexicans robbed him of everything. He was completely exploited in the Southwest by Latinos. Even his musical gear was stolen.

    “What’s a couple thousand dollars”

    Racial groups take a look at the competition before they form street gangs. Surry Indo-Canadian gangs know that cartel-backed Hispanic gangs over the border are far more ruthless and numerically superior. They are not even going to try to move over the border.

    “Managerial class”

    Northern California was a hippie haven of liberals who had no concept of how Brahmin corruption has ruled India for 3,000 years or the British Empire primed them as clerks.

    So of course the Brahmin just came in and took the SV over.

    East Coast Jews and Italians in real estate or politics are a different kettle of fish. As are Hispanics.

    But whites in IT did not stand a chance.

    “Nation at a top”

    Brahmin don’t have the verbal dexterity to replace Jews as the media organ or fire them from their positions in finance. If they could do this, then the US would look like India in 30 years.

    Importing overclasses is indeed a bad move. We’ve seen it with Jews, Chinese in Southeast Asia and Indians in Gulf countries.

    The worst thing about displacing whites is that they cannot be peaceful beggars on the street because the streets are controlled by feral blacks and Hispanics.

  207. anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:

    Based on the results of the Indian Civil Service Exam is any way to estimate the different IQs of Indian groups?

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  208. anonymous[293] • Disclaimer says:

    Over 10 years ago you attempted to estimate current and future Indian IQ.

    Do you have an update?

    • Replies: @rec1man
  209. @anonymous

    It isn’t. Caste Affirmative Action has replaced Brahmin dominance. Brahmin still run India to the equivalent that Jews run the US, but something had to be done in order to at least off-set caste privilege.

    Brahmin are far more intelligent than other castes on average. However, they don’t have the business acumen of the merchants castes. They’ve mostly stayed at the top through verbal dexterity and clerical cunning-again, not unlike Jews.

    Caste affirmative action has led to more incompetency in India. Lower castes are not as intelligent as Brahmin. It is no different than when the local governing of a US city becomes entirely black. Except that unlike blacks, Indians cannot move away.

  210. Thomm says:
    @jeff stryker

    Iffen is Indian?

    Then why is he so interested in the nuances and recent changes in the definition of ‘wigger’?

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  211. @Thomm


    Iffen said “where will WE go?” The pronoun led me to believe me to believe he is Indian. He said “we”.

    But you know, half the people on this board are impostors. Many of them are bored late adolescents in their teens or twenties impersonating older people.

    A good many impersonate Americans but are clearly British from unintentional use of slang words like “Poofter” than no American would use.

    Quite a few of the anonymous ones are Iranian or Chinese. A few are Indians.

  212. Medvedev says:

    First you need to be confident in 76 IQ figure to make such assumptions.
    Your post is driven mostly by emotional hatred rather than reasoning. Let’s take for example:

    What do you expect from a people who believe in a religion with 33 million Gods?!

    What do you expect from people who don’t even have their own God and believe in Jewish fairy tales?
    Couldn’t serve as a prove neither of Indian nor White intelligence.
    India is huge, diverse with dozens of different ethnic groups and multiple gods. If you want to compare compare it with European tribes in ancient times before Christianity, where each tribe/ethnic group had multiple deities.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  213. Medvedev says:

    No other race nepotism more than Indian.But again this characteristic is very Jewish like,the fact that there Indians are able to compete Chinese for the top spots and implement nepotism prove they’re not low IQ

    You answered your own questions. Nepotism is the answer and has nothing to do with Indians being as smart as Chinese or other East Asians.
    I’ve seen to many very bright Chinese, Koreans, EEuropeans working their a*s off, trying to complete unrealistic deadline set by Indian managers, failing to meet expectations, while Indian manager is bathing in glory and showcasing the achievement solely as his own. In the meantime, promoting another barely competent Indian. To their ‘defense’ they discriminate some other Indians even more (don’t know whether because of caste, region or ethnic group the other Indian belongs to) 🙂

    • Replies: @Avan
  214. Medvedev says:

    In other words it takes tremendous efforts by a small smart fraction, government and Modi himself to force low IQ part of Indian population to stop defecating in public!
    Hardly a success if you need to report it as a success 🙁

    On the other hand, I agree with many points you make about future development in India. Indians, despite their low average IQ, seem to be a lot more functional, cohesive and less prone to criminality and violent behavior than similar low-IQ societies.
    My thinking on the subject, current 82 Indian IQ will increase due to Flynn effect to 87-88, which is roughly equivalent to Mexican or slightly higher than Peruvian IQ. But being less prone to violence and more hard-working they may outperform Mexicans/Peruvians. Imagine 1.5 bln India with $14,000 nominal GDP per capita (in today’s dollars). This is comparable to US GDP, huge market, huge opportunities!

  215. Medvedev says:
    @jeff stryker

    If they could do this, then the US would look like India in 30 years.

    Why would they turn US into India when Indians in US outperform Jews and generally have higher IQ?

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  216. @dearieme

    Do not confuse unz comment section racists with facts.

  217. üeljang says:

    Who gives a f*ck whether a woman “hits the wall” sooner or later when she is an ugly, evil b*tch in the first place?

    That’s the big mystery to me regarding so many White men’s professed fondness for East Asian women.

  218. @jeff stryker

    “Brahmin are far more intelligent than other castes on average. ”

    Not true at all. It’s like saying “Jews are more intelligent”. Brahmins were for centuries exempted from actually, you know, working for a living, except for priestly and academic functions. So they became highly educated but effective at little else; this, along with their high profile social position, made them naturals as clerks and mid level administrators to all kinds of kingdoms, from the Mughals to the Marathas and so on. The British naturally found in them a useful comprador class – highly educated, incapable of earning a living at any real job (something Herzl also scathingly criticised 19th century Western European Jews for), and therefore utterly reliable as enforcers of imperial orders. Therefore it was only the Brahmins (first of all in Bengal and the Tamil Nadu area, which the Brutish first occupied) who were given the benefits of English language education and empowerment. The other castes were kept ignorant to keep them subservient. Even till the 1990s, clerical staff in North India were so inevitably Brahmin that you could almost rely on them sharing one of five surnames: Mishra, Shukla, Dwivedi, Trivedi, or Chaturvedi. In recent years the effect of reservations has drastically reduced this Brahmin power, to the fury of the Brahmins themselves.

    The lower castes whose IQ unz comment section racist ignoramuses, most of whom would have difficulty finding India on the world map, disparage, are still systematically discriminated against at every level of education. Just two years ago a Dalit student activist called Rohit Vemula was forced to commit suicide by the harassment of University authorities, and other such discrimination continues every day.

    By the way, though I’m an atheist and identify myself as having no religion, officially I’m a Brahmin. So I think I know more about it than you.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  219. @Medvedev

    Which Indians outperform Jews in the US? At what? Brahmin men letting their wives screw her boss for promotion to IT COO? Child bride sex? Domestic violence?

    Brahmin are nowhere near as persuasive or verbally dexterous as Jews.

    Muslims and lower-caste Indians have dull/normal intelligence.

    If Brahmin ran the US it would look like India because even high-caste Indians are corrupt thieves with few ethics. Fiscal funds would be stolen, federal workers would not be paid, lying would become institutional etc.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  220. KenH says:
    @jeff stryker

    I knew India had that problem with lower caste crime but I was referring to here in the states. The Indians we’ve imported to date don’t engage in that because at least to date we”ve applied meritocratic standards to the Indians we allow in.

    Interesting about the Sikhs because their religion is supposed to be all about peace, tolerance and love and Vdare had an article about their involvement in prostitution and drug running in Canada after the shooting at the Sikh temple years ago.

  221. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    I worked with Brahmin in Dubai and with Nair exclusively in Kerala as well as being around Indian Muslims.

    Most Brahmin I knew graduated from St. Xavier and you could have a conversation with them about anything.

    I would not rate them as the wheeler-dealers that Jews are. But they possess a sharp eye for weaknesses in power structures and know how to con Arabs.

    Brahmin can afford to send their kids to public schools, its not that other castes discriminate they just don’t have the money.

    Nair, and I have been around them a great deal, don’t seem as intelligent as Brahmin. St. Thomas Christians, whom I hung around with a bit in Kerala, seemed to be the most intelligent.

    Brahmin did not do any work for British because unlike Sikhs they are not tough fighters. That is why Sikhs are now security guards in white countries or increasingly, police officers. Why higher a Brahmin as an enforcer who is a flamer when you can hire a 220 pound 6’2 muscle-bound Punjabi?

  222. Edward says:

    Becker’s data are rather misleading. If you go to the website linked to in this article, the colour-coding system in the world map suggests that India’s average IQ is in the 80s. In July 2018, the “final” version of the dataset was published, which found that India’s average IQ was 83.23. This is reflected in the world map of IQs on the website.

    Yet, in the August 2018 update (which didn’t seem to include any corrections pertaining to India’s IQ), it miraculously dropped to 76.21.

    In any case, here’s what Richard Lynn had to say about Indian IQ:

    Mean IQs [in India] lie in the range of 81 to 94, with an overall mean of approximately 86. But ethic Indians in Britain obtain a mean of 96 which is within the range of other Caucasoid populations. Their verbal IQ of 89 is depressed, but this is probably because their families are recent immigrants and have not yet mastered the language. The British results suggest that when Indians are reared in an economically developed environment their intelligence level is about the same as that of European Caucasoids.

    It’s even worse than what for “Lance Welton”, actually. Data from the 2009-10 Cognitive Abilities Test (CAT), taken by almost every schoolchild in Britain, suggest that the average IQ of British Indians is approximately 100 (relative to their IQ, they actually overperform, substantially outpacing the White British population academically and in the economy).

    Now, remember that many of these are third-generation immigrants, whose grandparents arrived in Britain in the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s (during the period of open borders between Britain and its former colonies when there was no government selection for talent). The rest are mostly the grandchildren of people who arrived as refugees from Kenya and Uganda in the 1960s and early 1970s. The plurality of these Indians were from the Punjab, and were middle-to-high caste (but mostly not Brahmins). A lot of the rest were from Gujarat.

    In Singapore, Indians lie roughly midway between the Chinese and Malays educationally, and actually have a slightly higher average income than the Chinese. In Malaysia, they have lower average incomes than the Chinese but significantly higher average incomes than the Malay population.

    In the United States, data from Arthur Hu suggest that Hindu-Americans have higher average SAT scores than East Asians, coming very close to the Jewish SAT average. Jason Richwine, in 2009, reported that Indian-Americans have an average IQ of ~112.

    HBDers often use civilizational achievements to bolster their case. Yet, India had one of the earliest and most extensive civilizations in the world, around the 3rd millennium BCE.

    From the 4th to the 12th Centuries AD, the Indians made significant advances in mathematics and astronomy, many of which (e.g. the number zero, modern arithmetic, the decimal place and numeral system we use today, sine and cosine) were only transmitted to Europe centuries later.

    Do we really believe that all of the above describes a population with an average IQ of 76? Sure, this is only the phenotypic estimate, held back by environmental factors such as malnutrition, infectious disease and poor education, and the genotypic IQ of India could be around 90.

    But, Rindermann (2015) suggests that the average IQ of sub-Saharan Africa is around 75, reaching a compromise between Lynn’s estimate of 70 and Wicherts’ estimate of 81. Sub-Saharan Africa will also benefit from the Flynn effect, though. Perhaps not to the same extent as India, but its genotypic IQ is probably around 85.

    The difference between sub-Saharan Africa and India, then, is very slight. Both have high levels of genetic diversity and a roughly similar population.

    Yet, ethnic Indians have won 2 Nobel Prizes in Physics, 1 in Chemistry, 1 in Medicine/Physiology, 2 in Literature and 1 in Economics. In mathematics, they’ve won 2 Fields Medals, 1 Abel Prize and 2 Nevanlinna Prizes. Ramanujan, perhaps the greatest mathematical genius in history, was an Indian. Satyendra Nath Bose and Harish-Chandra were almost certainly unfairly overlooked for the Nobel Prize in Physics and the Fields Medal, respectively.

    By contrast, Blacks have only won 2 Nobels in Literature and 1 in Economics, and none of the mathematical prizes.

    India has an impressive mathematical, philosophical and literary heritage, and has been host to some very well-governed civilizations that spanned the entire subcontinent (particularly in the Harappan, Mauryan and Gupta periods, as well as in the Chola-ruled South around the 10th Century). Sub-Saharan Africa, by contrast, boasts very few historical accomplishments.

  223. Vojkan says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Not necessarily. For instance, the map shows Serbia as having lower average IQ than Slovenia or Croatia. Yet, there is no Slovenian or Croat equivalent to Nikola Tesla, Milutin Milanković, or Mihajlo (Michael) Pupin. Another way to look at it is to think of far above average individuals as possible genetical anomalies, just as individuals far below average are most often genetical anomalies.

    • Replies: @Truth
  224. Per Wikipedia: Governors Island is a 172-acre island in New York Harbor, approximately 800 yards from the southern tip of Manhattan Island and separated from Brooklyn by Buttermilk Channel, approximately 400 yards.

    The author talks about two tiny islands in the Gulf of Cambay in state of Gujarat, Damao and Diu, as being repositories of the highest IQ in India… is Governors Island the repository of the American genius? What a crock of shit!

  225. Edward says:

    This entire analysis is just embarrassing.

    Indians are successful in the US not because they are smarter than whites, but because they work cheap

    Right, so that’s why Indian-Americans and Jewish-Americans are the only two groups to have median incomes of above $100,000. This idea that Indian-Americans only have the jobs they have because they work for low wages is some of the funniest nonsense I’ve ever come across, and seems to be being promulgated by jealous, bitter tech industry workers who have been outcompeted.

    In a country with an average IQ of 76, Indians have to be 2 Standard Deviations above the mean to be at around average IQ of US whites, at 106.

    White Americans don’t have an average IQ of 106. They have an average IQ of around 100.

    So basically, only 3.24 million Indians out of a country of 1.2 billion have IQ high enough to be considered mildly gifted in the US, at 121. Current population of Indians in the US already far exceeds this number, at almost 6 million.

    There are around 4.5 million Indian-Americans in the United States. They have average SAT scores only slightly lower than Jews, and higher than East Asians. Jason Richwine, in 2009, reported that their average IQ was 111.9.

    Approximately 1.23 million Indian-Americans, then, have an average IQ of 121 or above. Yet, because you messed up your math (how embarrassing), the population of Indians who should have an IQ of 121 or above is actually around 1.3 million, if we’re to seriously believe the nonsense that the average IQ of India is 76.

    So, you’re telling me that 95% of the Indians with IQs above 121 are currently residing in the United States? And that there are only 70,000 people living in India with IQs of above 121?

    Despite the fact that the average IQ of British Indians is around 100, with a population of 2 million, meaning that 161,600 British Indians have average IQs above 121?

    I think you need to revisit your assumptions. Hint: there’s a difference between the phenotypic IQ of a population (held back by environmental factors such as malnutrition, infectious disease, poor education and extreme poverty) and the genotypic IQ of a population.

    The IQ 76 figure is itself highly suspicious, especially as this same researcher previously reported India’s IQ to be 83, which is in line with the estimates of Rushton and Jensen, as well as Lynn.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  226. Lin says:

    “Untouchables are Untouchable, because they continued to eat beef after it got banned 2500 years ago

    The mark of an untouchable is beef eating, thats what separates an untouchable from a low caste..”

    My goodness, either one of the followings(or both) is correct

    **I can’t believe how insincere you’re. you tell me the worst part of Hinduism hinge on a choice of meat? (And don’t give me crap,I’m a long time observer of Bharat, the hindu caste system is very different from the occupation caste systems in 19th century japan or old England, the latters disappeared without much fuss; the Coopers no longer make barrels)
    **You’re correct. The misfortune of the Dalits was heaped upon them just because of their dietary preference. The Gau Rakshaks actually are liberators of Dalits because they try to prevent Dalits and muslims from eating beef by lynching their beef eaters.
    Look, even the Islamic punishment regarding violating pork ban only applies to meat vendors or deliberate merchandise mis-labelling. The muslims who ate pork, besides given koran thumping sermon by the mullahs, are not punished because there’s no koranic punishment edict on the pork eaters.
    Being said, I’m aware of your record of defending indian IQ. Honestly that’s unnecessary and I don’t believe in racial IQ myself. A rakshak of bharat like you should press the indian gov to spend more on basic education. IQ test is just an aptitude test; hard work makes the difference.

  227. denk says:

    There are Indians who are Mongloid as well,where do they fall in?

    When westerners look at an INdian tourist board promotion brochure on the NE, they no doubt would marvel at the myriad diversity of Indian culture.
    Wow, !
    they even have a Mongoloid subgroup,
    whose homeland , the seven sisters, are National Geographic grade paradise on earth.

    Hardly do they realise that the indigenous people of the seven sisters wanted no part of this ‘Indian diversities’.
    They were a carefree, happy people ,living in their own land of exquisite beauty, until they were gobbled up first by the Brits , then the Indians.
    When the Brits packed up for home, the NE thought they’d get independence like India.
    BUt Delhi didnt want to let go this paradise on earth, especially its immense mineral and hydraulic resources.
    Nehru sent in hundreds of thousands of jawans to subdue the Naga freedom figthers.
    Even tho the Nagas and others fought with extraordinary bravery and tenacity, they were hopelessly outnumbered, outgunned, eventually crushed by the ruthless invaders who resorted to scorched earth tactics, mass rapes and genocidal warfare.

    This is India’s Tibet, where no anglos and Indians dare to talk about,….[1]
    where the folks languish at the very bottom of social hierachy, …one rung below even the dalits !

    ‘It is not Fallujah, Palestine or even Kashmir but only a small province in the north-east of India. But there is no doubt that what the people of Manipur are staging right now is a full-scale intifada against the atrocities of an occupying army.

    The immediate target of their ire is one of the world’s most draconian ‘anti-terror’ laws anywhere- the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, imposed on several parts of the Indian north-east since 1958. The larger protest is against what is correctly perceived as decades of racist oppression by successive Indian governments that ‘inherited’ the north-eastern territories from British colonial rule in 1947.

    ‘Manipur ? Who ? What ? Where ?’ I can already hear people ask. Not surprising at all for those are questions that many Indian citizens themselves would be hard put to answer. Unlike Kashmir or the fate of the ‘untouchable’ Dalits- whose causes have made it to global platforms in recent years- the dirty little secrets of the Indian State’s predations in its north-eastern provinces are unknown to even rest of India.

    Not that rest of ‘Aryan’ India really cares. To them, the populations of the Indian northeast, of largely Tibeto-Burman ethnic origins, are an ‘invisible’ lot- whose territory and resources ‘belong’ to India but whose people don’t. Probably a rung below the ‘visible’ Dalits who ‘belong’ to India but possess no territory.’

    The so-called Arunachal Pradesh was actually carved out of Southern Tibet.

    Hence the Tibet that no anglos and Indians dare to talk about,.

    • Replies: @Australian lady
  228. TT says:

    Yes, Hockey stick phenomenon
    – long declination, short up ticks.

    The GDP growth rate is revised up only after massaging figures & parameters several yrs ago.

    China started from low side but arrived to 2nd largest economy within 40yrs.

    India started from higher side (although British Raj destroyed much of India GDP), after 60yrs its still a incredible shithole. Why?

    As long india continue to rule by bunch of most corrupted & self centered greedy politicians, there is little hope it can improve much. Just look at its dilapidated infrastructures & education system forming its broken backbone.

    These greedy Indian leaders will readily sell out India at a price, which was why such Great India could be colonized by a small British easily, and onwards served as its most loyal sepoy & resources to further invade Asia. They are again serving yanks & joos interest now.

    • Replies: @denk
  229. denk says:

    Long time no see.


    • Replies: @TT
  230. anon[681] • Disclaimer says:

    Indians are running Microsoft Seattle and its suburbs

    What’s the weather in Seattle today? Cloudy with a chance of Indians. It’s time for Bill Gates to move to Mumbai. We’re tired of being swamped by his cheap code coolies.

  231. @iffen

    I guess you are doing an Elizabeth Warren and claiming Amerindian ancestry? Right? You are not of subcontinentals descent I think?????

    • Replies: @iffen
  232. Anon[681] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thulean Friend

    7% of Indians commit 70% of the crimes in that country.

    Citation needed.

    In 2013, police identified 49 illegal gangs nationwide, with nearly 40,000 known members. More than 70 per cent of felons are ethnic Indians, who make up just 7 per cent of Malaysia’s population. Though small in number, they have been linked to a wide array of crimes – such as armed robberies, drug and prostitution rings, loan-sharking, gambling and extortion rackets, and even contract killings.

  233. @jeff stryker

    “Brahmin did not do any work for British because unlike Sikhs they are not tough fighters. “


    The Brutish first captured a significant part of India, Bengal, in 1757. They did not annex the Sikh Empire until 1829-32 in the Anglo Sikh War.

    They did not use the Brahmins for soldiers; in fact they did not recruit Bengalis as soldiers. They had a “martial race theory” according to which their mercenaries came from a gaggle of so called “martial races” – mostly Gorkhas, Marathas, Sikhs, Jats, and Rajputs. The rest of India was not represented in their mercenary “Indian army”.

    What did the Brahmins do? They were used for the far more important role of the Vichy puppet administration which actually ruled India for the Brits; the clerks, lawyers, low level government officials and enforcers of colonial commands without which absolutely no colonial empire can survive. This Vichy role brought rewards, of course, which is why Bengalis still sigh with nostalgia for the 19th century which they call the Bengali Renaissance – when the Brahmin Vichy puppet class and their hangers on became rich and influential overnight.

    Do *not* attempt to lecture me on Brahmins. I know more about them than you do.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  234. rec1man says:


    I have actual data from California National Merit List for several years

    The data shows

    South Indian Brahmin > North Indian Merchant > North Indian Brahmin > Upper Caste Dravidian > Patels, Jat Sikhs > Lower Castes

    Each year about 330 Indians get on the list

    Of which 110 South Brahmins, 25 North Brahmins, 80 North Merchants, 60 Upper Caste Dravidians , 20 Kayasth ( scribes ), 15 Rajputs, 3 Patels, 3 Jat Sikhs

    • Replies: @anonymous
  235. @Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

    I’ll lecture you on what my experience as a Gora was in Dubai and India.

    Brahmin are still glorified clerks in the Gulf and in Silicone Valley and Sikhs are still security guards. Brahmin are grease and Sikhs are muscle. Brahmin have a good eye for weaknesses in power structures and will do anything-I’ve seen married Brahmin women sleep with company owners, for example-to get at the top of it.

    There are not that many Brahmin left in South India. The Nair expelled them. Yet the St. Thomas Christians seem to be the elite of Kerala. I met a few.

    Being a Brahmin in Maharashtra really is no big deal anymore because there is so much new money around, but in general the rich people in Andheri or Jo-Jo are Brahmin. And Parsis, but I don’t count them as real Indians.

    • Replies: @rec1man
  236. @Edward


    You rarely see an Indian Muslim, Tami-Christian or needless to say a Bihari in the United States. Only the most intelligent among the higher castes and Gujarati merchants live in the US.

    As for the highest earning Indians in the US, my guess is that these would not be Brahmin but Gujarati Indians in general. There might be an Silicone Valley owner here or there but the vast majority of wealthy in Indians in the US are Gujarati.

    US Immigration vets Indians carefully. Just going through the application process means you have money and this means you are probably intelligent to earn it.

    Canada and Europe are less stringent and as a result have more problems with Indian crime than the US.

    • Replies: @Edward
  237. @jeff stryker

    Punjabi ARE DESCENDED from rapists and looters-Huns, Scythian, Greek homos-warriors who serviced Alexander. No surprise rape runs through their gene pool.

    Wait are you ascribing “rapey” behavior to genes now? I can accept genes being partially responsible for an intelligence ceiling . Thus average intelligence being partially dependent on genes [the other being training and nutrition etc; nature/nurture] but this? Jeff, you are the bane of the UR comments section wherein you mix half truths with outright lies. The way Indians behave on average is because of the particular environment that has persisted there for centuries with so many hostile outgroups trying to outfox each other and maintain [or better] the status quo among those groups. But I do not ever ascribe to the notion that sikhs or for that matter anyone on this blue planet of ours is pre-disposed to raping women due to genes. That has to be the biggest crock of crap I ever heard anywhere, but coming from you, I ain’t surprised in the least.

    I am a believer and I believe in a just God out there. I wouldn’t think he would have created peoples who are genetically pre-disposed to killing and raping. If you impose chaos, anarchy and horrific brutality [by way of an extended war or brutal occupation] on a given population for say a couple of generations, it’s after shocks might last a generation or two and you’d still find kind people there [perhaps not as many as you’d find in a peaceful igh trust society]. In fact this is my biggest issue with those Indians. They’ve created a highly stratified society that prides itself of segregating people by birth. That’s insane. I’m not a complete universalist nutjob that believes everyone, including hardcore repeat offenders must be allowed to live freely among the rest but this is the other extreme that just infuriates me. On top of that, these very Indians who then come here, engage in tacit hypocrisy [we are all the same and so you must let us all in]. This just drives me insane.

    I do agree a homogeneous population of mutually trustworthy peoples is the best thing for a country which is why I believe in very little non European immigration of the best and the brightest. This is what the Indians before the dot-com bubble were like. And they openly admitted to the shortcomings of their own nation which allowed them to introspect and gradually adapt and pick up traits from our society. Of course there are things we could learn from the east like caring for the elderly and a solid network of familial bonds but there are many things they could and still can learn from us too. This is only possible when their numbers are low. This is why immigration must be highly restricted. Not because we are supposedly “superior”.

    I do not believe in racial superiority and in fact I’d ally with anyone at present who can upend the status quo and slay the “holiest” of those dragons [ZOG] that will eventually allow us to meaningfully debate such issues as mass non European immigration. So one can be a nationalist without being a supremacist. This is why I like Patrick Little. He is THE one guy who is open and candid about ZOG and says he is willing to bite the bullet for that. Imagine if that guy got into the primaries. Just imagine millions of people hearing the truth about ZOG for the first time. It would have a dynamo affect. He doesn’t alienate people of color but he is an unapologetic white nationalist and hates ZOG. He is willing to ally with PoC folks who would like to see ZOG exposed. It’s absolutely OK to tell that to those PoC we do not want more of your kind but those of you who are already here will not be expelled. Provided some of the bothersome cultural traits of your home countries would not be tolerated in that new white nation. This was what it was like before until it all went downhill with fake neoCon version of liberalism

    That will allow us to focus all our energies on a mutual pest. This is what patrick Little says. I wonder why no one at UNZ covers that guy. He is THE only chance whites have. vote little, win big

  238. anon[209] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Americans aren’t stupid ,neither are Palistanis or Indians. American school and the HS graduates don’t inspire much hope . Don’t blame Jews for your stupidities .
    Majority of college graduates can’t think properly let alone process any information that doesn’t run from A to B as causality .

    There is a new science – IQ science . It in the hand of retard has become a new flag to rally more retards and have something to feel good about in an otherwise drug infested unemployed or daily wage subsistence level existence .

    You know in India,the seasonal jobs in tax preparation , or job in restaurant or in gas station don’t count as job .

    • Replies: @Lin
  239. Truth says:

    I have been to Serbia and Croatia. Not Slovenia, but I know, quite well a woman who is have Slovene, half Croat, and she hipped me to the stereotypes while we were there, and introduced me to a few other Slovenes.

    Slovenes are fairly German in dress, demeanor, diet and lifestyle. She told me this and I tended to see it.

    Croats are known for being laisser faire, to the point of being quite lazy. Although the smartest do quite well when they immigrate; for example in Split, I saw a large, ugly piece of graffiti on one of an apartment building walls that said “Tito” and asked my friend what it said and she said “Tito is the Devil.”

    This was in 2015, and he died in 1980.

    I saw a lot of gold-chain wearing Eastern Euro gangster types in Serbia, although none in Croatia. May have been a limited sample size, but I doubt it. The people there also look much more Genghis Khanny.

    My friend had a PR firm in Zagreb and was thinking of moving it to Serbia as it is a bigger more important city, she ultimately decided against it saying, “The further South and East you go in (ex-Yugo) the more corrupt it becomes.”

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
    , @Vojkan
    , @Vojkan
  240. Lin says:

    **You know in India,the seasonal jobs in tax preparation , or job in restaurant or in gas station don’t count as job …** ????

    “only 30 days of work in a year to call the(indian) person employed..”

  241. EH says:

    “we’re all descended from people who left Africa about 50k years ago” [more like 70kya]

    Except most Africans, of course. Also, the last common H. Sap. Sap. ancestor of humans was 150 – 250kya and most everybody outside Africa has Neanderthal or Denisovan heritage with last common ancestors going back at least 500kya.

    But Rational’s claim that Dravidians are Africans was so dumb these are minor quibbles.

  242. @Truth


    Slovenia is on the border of Austria, their Germanic manners and appearance make sense.

    Serbians are Slavs, so of course they would look more Asiatic. Tartars also conquered the place.

    When you get South and East to the Greek border, you are in Mediterranean “Friends of Frank Sinatra” country. Which, of course, is more corrupt.

  243. indocon says:

    One fact about IQ of average Indian is that based on whatever real average IQ exists in India, there are a lot higher % of people in 95%+ bracket than what bell curve would suggest, it’s almost like 2 curves juxtaposed next to each other. There is probably no other population in the world like that, this is squarely due to the cast system.

    And who has emigrated to US the most….the people in the 95%+ bracket. Indians haver migrated to several other countries in large numbers, South Africa, Caribbean, Malaysia besides other Anglo countries, you just don’t hear about those populations excelling the way US Indians have.

    • Replies: @rec1man
    , @Edward
  244. Vojkan says:

    You are right, your sample was limited. I don’t know what the ‘Genghis Khanny look’ looks like, but Croats definitely look more Hun than the Serbs – they look even more Hun than the Hungarians actually -, there are many more blue eyed Serbs than there are Croats, and Serbs have on average softer facial features than Croats. There is a sizeable part of the population in Serbia that doesn’t have Slavic looks though. The Slovenians on average have a hybrid Austrian / Czech look.
    As for corruption, Croatia is no less corrupt than Serbia and the further South you go, corruption is just more democratically spread, it is not reserved to the top levels of the social ladder. I cannot compare with Slovenia but I can with France. Serbs will often try to charge you more than the real price, are often unprofessional and lack sense of civility but that also can be because the police is far more lenient with the small people than it is in France where the more up the social ladder you are, the more chances you have to get away with illegal activity. I have had to do a lot of administrative stuff since I had to return from France to the South of Serbia, for family reasons, and have been in many situations for which it is rumored that a little cash incentive can accelerate things, yet I never had to resort to donations to get things done. Organised crime is a problem though but nowhere near the level in Kosovo or French suburbs. The love for golden chains is due to the popularity of Italian mafia themed films. Serbia’s biggest problem is brain drain. Hundreds of thousands of engineering, medicine and hard sciences graduates have left in the past thirty years.
    One last thing regarding corruption. The regions of the former Yugoslavia where it is most widespread are definitely and in that order Kosovo, Montenegro, and the muslim part of Bosnia. All American protégés.

    • Replies: @Truth
  245. Vojkan says:

    The funny thing about Slovenians is that they love to bad mouth Serbs. Yet, though the Slovenians have no letters ‘ć’ or ‘đ’ in their alphabet, their best basket-ball player ever is named DončiĆ.

  246. TT says:

    In Singapore, Indians lie roughly midway between the Chinese and Malays educationally, and actually have a slightly higher average income than the Chinese. In Malaysia, they have lower average incomes than the Chinese but significantly higher average incomes than the Malay population.

    You are obviously talking BS that you have no idea about, or just to bloat your Indian pride by quoting Sg & Msia with lies.

    Local Indians in Sg are mostly lowly educated like Malays, many men are drunkards & domestic violent violators, often with criminal records, and work in low menial jobs, such as security guard, cleaner, truck drivers, warehouse mover or low civil jobs.

    Those few educated ones usually concentrated on legal sectors, as they are borned great smooth talker & particularly good in English. Apart from that, you hardly find any Indians in medical, research or engineering. If there is, they are mostly crooks came from India with fake certificates screwing up things or killing patients with impunity awaiting to send back.

    Even in accounting, clerical, servicing & reception lines, Indians are also mostly not employable. Malay women stand a better chance. They do face difficulty getting good pay job for their laziness & lying traits, which form a vicious cycle to their demise.

    With GDP PPP per cap of $92,000, Spore is highly developed with very high ave household income. That’s how gov could inflated a Toyota 1600cc car price to $70K that cost more than a Mercedes in US. Even a 40yrs old small gov flat cost $400K, with private one easily cross $1M.

    If Indians will to have higher ave household income than Chinese who make up the 75% as you blatantly quoted, than these Indians must be the World No1 best earner by working as security guards or cleaners, with only 6yrs education. And all 9% Indians should be millionaires without exception.

    The influx of India indians over last 10yrs are messing up Sg like what they did in US, filled with crooks & cheats holding fake resume, but in more violent & uncontrolled ways(Spore 1st Little India Riot in 50yrs). They sneaked into IT, banking, medical(even India certificate is not recognized by Sg), etc but most caught with fake qualifications of no basic ability. With no punishment metered out, these crooks just move on to another victims.

    Whereas in Msia, most local Indians are often associated as organized gangs & criminals with low income, somewhere similar to Malays.

    There are always a few performing one out of 1.4B Indians globally, but here we are talking about majority. And you got everything simply wrong in Sg & Msia.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
    , @Edward
  247. TT says:

    Yes, how have you been.

    Getting abit itch recently to join your truth crusade. Only unz is truly uncensored & of higher quality commentators. But topics here are quite narrowed, only cater to yanks interest.

    • Replies: @denk
  248. Edward says:
    @jeff stryker

    You rarely see an Indian Muslim, Tami-Christian or needless to say a Bihari in the United States. Only the most intelligent among the higher castes and Gujarati merchants live in the US.

    As for the highest earning Indians in the US, my guess is that these would not be Brahmin but Gujarati Indians in general. There might be an Silicone Valley owner here or there but the vast majority of wealthy in Indians in the US are Gujarati.

    It’s true that Indian-Americans consist, disproportionately, of Brahmins and other high-caste groups, along with Gujarati merchants. I never denied this.

    I also never commented upon who the highest-earning Indian-Americans are; I was merely observing that, aside from Jewish-Americans, they have the highest median incomes in the United States, meaning that they are by no means “low-paid” or working for low wages, as the person to whom I was replying insinuated.

    We cannot know who the highest-paid of the Indian-Americans are, but given that this is a median measure, not a mean measure, we can safely say that they are very well-paid across the board. White-Americans have a median household income of $61,349, whereas Indian-Americans have a median household income of more than $100,000. That’s too large a difference to be explained by Gujarati merchants.

    Only 7% of Indian-Americans are in service occupations, while 70.1% of them are in management, business or science. This is bound to explain why they are very well-paid. Roughly 75% of them have an undergraduate degree or higher.

    Europe is less stringent and as a result has more problems with Indian crime than the US.

    Britain was the least stringent of any country, as it had a system of open borders between the UK and the Commonwealth countries in the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s. Even after they put controls in place in the early 1960s, many Indians were able to come to Britain due to family renuion throughout the 1960s, and those who had passports were able to flee from Kenya as refugees. And in 1972, the UK accepted all of the Indians who were fleeing as refugees from Uganda.

    Unlike the US, the Indians in the UK tend to be middle-caste Punjabis and Gujaratis, with fewer South Indians. There are some Bengali Brahmins, too.

    Yet, British Indians have the highest average pay levels in the UK, and are more likely to be in professional and managerial occupations than any other ethnic group in the country. They outperform every ethnic group academically, except for the Chinese. The latest data suggest that they have average IQs of 100.

    Indians in the UK are probably the least likely to commit crime out of any major ethnic group, as well. Search up ‘Religion of Prisoners and General Population in England and Wales‘.

    Hindus make up only 0.46% of prisoners and Sikhs make up 0.75% of prisoners. Indians as a whole make up 2.5% of the population of England and Wales (probably higher now), and Hindus and Sikhs account for just over 66% of British Indians.

    Therefore, despite representing 1.65% of the England and Wales population, Hindus and Sikhs only represent 1.21% of prisoners.

    In Scotland, Hindu and Sikh underrepresentation in the prison population is even greater: again, search it up.

    Canada is less stringent and as a result has more problems with Indian crime than the US.

    You’ve said this before, but you’ve given me no evidence that Indo-Canadians commit high levels of crime in proportion to their population.

    From what I can see, Indo-Canadians have high educational attainment, are affluent, and have lower crime rates than White Canadians; that is, relative to their population, they commit less crime.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  249. The writer is being PC and ignoring the elephant in the room. Genetics and heredity. He is selectively quoting Lynn.

    India has a national average IQ of 82, which is quite low. However the Brahmin caste has an average IQ of 115 – the highest of any identifiable ethnic group — According to Richard Lynn, a British psychologist, and Tatu Vanhanen, a Finnish political scientist

    Brahmin run India’s computer software industry, out of Bangalore. And all the Indian doctors in the US are Brahmin. The flood of Brahmins leaving India for America, amounts to a massive brain-drain for India.
    Brahmin caste run India’s computer software industry, out of Bangalore. And all the Indian doctors in the US are Brahmin. The flood of Brahmins leaving India for America, amounts to a massive brain-drain for India. [[Out of the total Indian doctors in the U.S.A. 67% are Brahmins. Instead of serving the poor masses of India, these doctors have opted to work in rich America and other Western countries. —- Brahmin representation in the fields of engineering and law is 53 % and 57 % respectively. In the field of education their teachers and professors make up more than 51 %.]]

  250. @TT


    I’d agree with you because I worked in the Arab Gulf. Lower caste Indians are often violent hard-to-manage drunks, wife abusers, liars and thieves. And most Indians who immigrate to Singapore are low-caste Tamils or Muslim Indians.

    One might argue that the US government intentionally pressured Singapore to lower its immigration bar in order to destabilize Chinese power in Singapore.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @TT
  251. Vagabond says:

    They say intelligence, you say prosperous.

    Next time argue their point.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  252. iffen says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I guess you are doing an Elizabeth Warren

    No, unlike Un Poco Hontas, I only have the normal background American Indian ancestry.

    I was just trying to do a little humor on the Indian-dot, Indian-feather, Native American wording. I haven’t fully made the PC transition to Native American instead of American Indian. Given that we sent “our Indians” to the West, if they are repatriated to the SE and east, then I would have to give up my little acre of paradise to some Creek Indian.

    On the Native American name, shouldn’t only descendants of the first wave get to use that name? And what about that mysterious DNA from the Amazon? The source of that genetic material could turn out to be the “real” Native Americans.

    I guess that since there are “real” Indians like Thomm about, I’ll have to start doing the Native American thing.

  253. @Blind_understanding

    Nairs kicked the Brahmin out of Kerala in the fifties and today the state is one of the wealthiest in India.

    India does not suffer for loss of Brahmin.

    Curiously, Brahmin have the greatest amount of Caucasian blood from the Aryans-probably Slavs from the Black Sea or Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Blind_understanding
  254. @Edward


    Most of the rich Indians in the US were loaded before they got to the US. And it would probably not be Brahmin wriggling into the managerial class but Gujarati or Jain or Parsee merchants who are the richest Indians in the US.

    America’s rigid immigration policy has kept out the lower caste Indians and North Indian Muslims who would be inclined to petty crime or hooliganism.

    I don’t argue that Hindus are less likely to be in prison in the UK than Muslim South Asians.

    As for Sikh crime in Canada, I’m sure you can find your own sources on the internet.

    • Replies: @Edward
  255. @jeff stryker

    Let us at least agree Brahmin IQ is much higher than the Dalits!

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  256. rec1man says:
    @jeff stryker

    Nairs are genetically brahmins

    Originally they were kerala dravidian soldiers

    They had a matriarchal society, and Nair women had temperory marriages with
    local Nambudiri ( Kerala brahmin ) men

    This has happened for 1000 years

    Now, Nairs looks wise and IQ wise are indistinguishable from South Brahmins

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  257. rec1man says:

    Indians in South Africa, Caribbean and Malaysia are predominantly from lower caste groups, selected for agri labor, not IQ

  258. denk says:

    Im currently on self imposed light duty.
    Too much late nights is bad for my age.
    YOur contributions are highly welcomed,
    The more the merrier.

    Are you still exploring the jungle track these days. ?
    Lucky you !

    • Replies: @TT
  259. Edward says:
    @jeff stryker

    Most of the rich Indians in the US were loaded before they got to the US.

    I was referring to income, not wealth. Again, 70.1% of Indian-Americans are in management, business or scientific occupations. Gujaratis and Jains make up nowhere near 70.1% of the Indian-American population (they make up around 20% of Indian-Americans, put together), and Parsis are a tiny minority of Indian-Americans.

    The remaining 80% of Indian-Americans are made up of Brahmins (both North Indian and South Indian), Punjabi Khatris (middle-caste Hindus and Sikhs) and Kayasthas, along with some from the lower castes of India. Their median income is way higher than that of Chinese-Americans, never mind White Americans. The reason is simple: they are the best educated group of Americans, so they go into the highest-earning occupations, and thus earn high incomes. This is due to their ~110 IQ.

    I don’t argue that Hindus are less likely to be in prison in the UK than Muslim South Asians.

    Hindus in the UK are less likely to be in prison than White British people. South Asians as a whole – including Pakistanis and Bangladeshis – are slightly less likely to commit violent crime than White British people. This is almost certainly driven by very low rates of violent crime committed by Indians – I doubt Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are driving that trend.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  260. Edward says:

    You’re talking nonsense, and you know it. Why should I believe your mendacious anecdotes, when the data support me?

    In 2010, Indian Singaporeans had a median household income per head (in Singaporean dollars) of $5370. Chinese Singaporeans had a median household income per head of $5100. Malays had a median household income per head of $3844.

    As for education, here are the statistics for 2004: 86.5% of Chinese Singaporeans achieved 5 or more passed in their ‘O’ Levels; 73.7% of Indian Singaporeans achieved 5 or more passes in their ‘O’ Levels; 59.3% of Malays achieved 5 or more passes in their ‘O’ Levels.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @TT
  261. @jeff stryker

    Your last paragraph sounds like the silliest kind of malicious fantasy too often contaminating UR threads. What evidence do you have of the US (especially successfully) pressuring Singapore to “lower its immigration bar” for the reason you propose or at all?

  262. @Blind_understanding

    Please do US the courtesy of sorting out your figures. It doesn’t give great confidence in any of them that you
    assert both that 67 per cent of Indian doctors in the US are Brahmin and that all are.

    • Replies: @Blind_understanding
  263. anonymous[236] • Disclaimer says:

    This seems like an odd name list to choose. Why go to an Indian population in California when the all-India civil service exam annually publishes the names of individuals ranked from 1-1000. Does the civil service exam list not show the pattern you wish to see so you ignore it?

    @jeff stryker The civil service exam rank is not adjusted upwards for caste status. However, lower castes can get the plum jobs with a lower rank.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @rec1man
  264. anonymous[236] • Disclaimer says:

    On further research it seems like only 1-90 on the test are not adjusted by caste.

    A separate cut-off list is prepared for each of the reserved categories, but it matters when a candidate does well enough to rank among the top 90 overall. Lower interview marks pull down their ranks, and they lose the chance to be considered as general category candidates in the allotment of service and cadre of their first choice.

    In 2015, just 9 OBC and 4 SC candidates reached the top 90 ranks; no STs made it to this bracket. In 2014, there were 11 OBCs, 2 SCs and 1 ST among the top 90. In 2013, there were 77 general category candidates and 13 OBCs in the top 90, and in 2012, there were 19 OBCs, 2 SCs and 1 ST.

  265. @Wizard of Oz

    Blind: “Brahmin caste run India’s computer software industry, out of Bangalore. And all the Indian doctors in the US are Brahmin. The flood of Brahmins leaving India for America, amounts to a massive brain-drain for India. [[Out of the total Indian doctors in the U.S.A. 67% are Brahmins…]
    … which in turn quotes

    Wiz: Please do US the courtesy of sorting out your figures. It doesn’t give great confidence in any of them that you
    assert both that 67 per cent of Indian doctors in the US are Brahmin and that all are.

    Blind: My comment was obviously a quick summary of the details that follow. People generalize like this all the time. So long as the summary is followed by the nitty-gritty details, it is not deceptive nor should it inspire lack of confidence in the details. Quit yer nitpickin! You can’t see the forest for the trees.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  266. Edward says:

    Indian-Americans are undoubtedly one of the most successful groups of people, not just in the United States, but in the world.

    However, Indians in the UK (British Indians) are widely acknowledged as having excelled, too, despite only having an average IQ of 100.

    Two articles in the rightwing, conservative Telegraph illustrate this rather well. Firstly:

    British Indians: A Remarkable Story of Success

    After decades of immigration and integration they are, quite simply, among the most industrious and accomplished among us – the best of British

    There is a very good case to be made that British Indians are not just the most successful immigrant group in this country’s recent history, but the most successful group of people full stop…

    British Indians, quite simply, are among the most industrious, accomplished and creditable among us – the best of British, if you like.

    This starts at school. More than 75 per cent of British Indian students in England get five or more “good” GCSEs, compared to 61 per cent of white British students. Later, 14 per cent of British Indian students obtain three A* or A grades or better at A‑level. It’s 10 per cent for white British students.

    Then 26 per cent of British Indian students in England go on to a top-flight university, compared with 15 per cent of their white British classmates. And more of them go into professions such as medicine. British Indians are barely 2 per cent of the population, but 12 per cent of all doctors.


    Lord Archer: Indians are the ‘new Jews’ and are taking over Britain

    Britain is being “taken over” by Indians and will one day have an Indian prime minister, according to Tory peer Lord Archer.

    • Replies: @indocon
    , @AaronB
    , @denk
  267. rec1man says:

    For Tamil Brahmins, 15%, most of the high IQ segment has migrated to the USA ;

    Many castes do not apply for UPSC anymore , such as Jains, Khatri ( Punjabi merchants ), Tamil Brahmins, South Brahmins

    Because, once in UPSC, at the mercy of politicians, can get transferred to odd remote places and private sector pays more, if you are talented

    In my state of Tamil Nadu, Brahmins are harassed by their dravidian underlings and forced to resign or get transferred to other states

  268. @rec1man

    Nairs were the first Indians to simply expel Brahmin completely in the 1950’s. The wealthy elite of Kerala today are the St. Thomas Christians, whom I hung around a bit, and are apparently of Syrian descent.

  269. @Blind_understanding

    Well I am just trying to be helpful as an Oxbridge tutor might have (at least in my time) when an essay suggested that, at best, his student lacked discipline and needed to be encouraged to read what he had written before delivering it to wider readership.

    He would of course have been very disconcerted if he thought you were not merely careless but were not able to pick up such contradictions at a glance. Would he have to comfort himself with the thought that there are a variety of dyslexias compatible with fine intellect?

    • Replies: @Blind_understanding
  270. @Edward

    This is a good thing, because if the US Immigration were more lax America would end up with another criminal underclass if we imported low-caste Tamil Nadu drunkards, Muslim Maharashtra street thugs, white-collar Nair criminal embezzlers.

  271. @Wizard of Oz

    More nitpicking! He has no opinion on my spin on the topic. It’s all over his head.
    Nitpickers are just a waste of time and space. I iggied him.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  272. @Blind_understanding


    Brahmin and other higher castes have Caucasian DNA markers from ancient Aryans who originated in what is today the Ukraine and black Sea.

    Is it this ancient Caucasian admixture that seemingly boosts their intellect? If so, why are Tamil Nadu higher IQ than Punjabi, who arguably possess the greatest admixture of white blood (Hun, Greek, Scythian).

    Were the Aryans who migrated to India from Ukraine or the Black Sea an especially intelligent group?

    As for Dalits, those who become Christian and are freed from the depths of Hindutva caste dementia seem to fair better with the yoke of Hinduism off them.

    Its a good question.

    • Replies: @Blind_understanding
  273. TT says:

    Sure you know Sg & Msia better than their people by day dreaming, have you ever visited Sg & Msia?

    Give citations source on your data or admit you make up. Sg gov is secretive in racial profiling even in income. Although current bad leaders are suppressing Chinese income & employment very hard, in flooding SG with massive low grade FT, your data showing Sg medium household income per head is near double in 2010 still incredible!

    Singaporean worker’s median monthly salary stands at S$3,861 (excluding employer 16~20% CPF).

    The median household income from work per household member, however, is at $2,792.
    The median household was $9,023 in the year 2017, hence, indicating a 3% increment in the year 2018.

    You probably also don’t aware many Malays & Indians drop out from school with high delinquency.

    Fortunately Spore local Indians aren’t illiterate crooks & violent like India’s even many are poor & lowly educated. The disparity is high in Indians. Singh are usually doing much better if one classified them as Indian.

    Indians are better than Malays, and mingled well with everyone unlike religious Muslim Malays near impossible to get along well(the west must be crazy to bring in millions), thus enriching our multiculturalism & fine cuisine. The bright ones are doing particularly well in legal & certain civil sectors for obvious reason. But many are still in low jobs is a reality.

    Sg don’t get the best brain & wealthiest of India like US, many are their dredge, crooks & liars sneaked in using unequal treaty forced down Sg throat by US-India in last 10yrs. But old guards Indians are exceptional excellent.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  274. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    Jeff, its a lost Oz didn’t approved your immigration application.

    You know much & able to penetrate all the myths & conspiracy, with very pragmatic view. Most Oz pp i know are plain dumbfk brainwashed sheeples, wrapped in Americanism. They are well known in UNZ & many forums.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  275. TT says:

    Yes, still ravaging in 3rd world jungles…where they are free from 5Lies & Indians tyrants. Not sure when Yanks will razed these forests & seized all clean waters, as they did in Amazon.

    But internet link us to the chaotic world filled with yanks violence. So occasionally i will cutoff if overwhelming. My eyes are failing too…

  276. @TT

    America does not import Muslim Malaysians or even Muslim Filipinos.

    I don’t know where you got that idea. Filipino Christians, yes. But Malaysians and Indonesians? Very few immigrate to the United States. To begin with, they don’t have the money or skill-set. Also, many of them see the West as monolithic enemy.

    Filipinos are the exception. They will spout anti-American rhetoric while climbing over their own mothers to get into the US.

    Singh refers to Sikhs from the Punjab who are lighter-complected than the Tamil Nadu Indians responsible for the race riots of 1969 and 2013.

    • Replies: @TT
  277. @TT


    Pragmatic view-

    Malays have bad characters and would be prone to drug addiction, promiscuity/prostitution, piracy, pathological lying, kleptomania no matter what. But Islam suppresses this to a degree and as a result Malaysia is not a crime-ridden narco-economy like the Philippines.

    Also, if Chinese did not sell drugs to Filipinos the demand would still exist and Mexican cartels would do so-they have cultural and genetic ties to the Philippines from Spanish colonial times anyhow.

    I lived in Cebu, Philippines and my business partner and my co-workers were Chinese-Filipinos. And needless to say, also my mistress.

    Don’t think I don’t have some grudging admiration for Fujian Chinese who moved to primitive jungles or colonial backwaters as bush peddlers and became billionaires. Singapore and Malaysia would look like Africa if the Chinese did not run the economies and give the natives some sort of jobs.

    Did the US government tamper with Singaporean Immigration policies in order to offset Chinese geo-political dominance with Singapore as economic engine running Southeast Asia by importing Tamil Nadu as a competitive class whose smell alone would damage social cohesiveness?

    Well, that is what I would do.

    Australians are naive because Australia is a rich country where even the naive and uneducated can be middle-class. This is not necessarily a bad thing. The overall standard of living in Australia is much higher than the United States. That was why I tried to immigrate.

    Finally, most of these American and Australian posters have not lived or worked in Southeast Asia.

    Paying hookers on Orchard Street for sex or falling down drunk in Bangkok bars does not count. Before a person can really understand a country, they need to hold a job there for some period of time. That is my opinion.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @TT
  278. @TT


    Let us give the Spanish their due for raping the Amazon and creating the Philippines. It is not JUST Americans who are responsible for the horrors of exploitation in developing countries.

    Chinese emigrants in Cambodia started the lumber business there and strip-mined Cambodian forests and damaged the ecosystem. We cannot completely absolve Chinese from blame for exploitation of resources.

    As for Singapore, one reason for its success is that it preserved English systems of law. Of all the colonists, the English managed to leave useful infrastructures and political systems behind.

    That comes down to a comparison of the white races and cultures. Are Anglo-Saxons capable of creating societies superior to those of Latins? Why is Hong Kong better than Philippines?

    • Replies: @TT
  279. indocon says:

    Vast majority of British Indians are descendent from two states in India that used to be the main source of emigrants in past – Punjab and Gujarat. Specifically, these people come from castes that are in middle of pack, farmers, artisans, traders. IQ wise I would say they don’t measure up to say Tamil Brahmins, but they more than enough make it to up in hustle.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  280. @indocon


    I would say Gujarati merchant caste Indians can hold their own in business against the Jews. Sikhs apparently are the second-highest earning group in UK below, of course, the Jews again.

    Look at what happened in Uganda once the Gujarati Indians were expelled. The economy collapsed. The same thing happened, to a lesser degree, when Koreans were informally expelled from the Los Angeles ghettos after the LA riots.

    British themselves were aware that Sikhs were reliable soldiers and Gujarati and Parsee (Okay, they are Iranian by DNA) made excellent shopkeepers.

  281. I have another explanation. India has a rigid caste system, which prevents people with high innate ability from going from one class to another. They are grouped by physical and cultural mannerisms, revealing class origins, that have everything to do with breeding and nothing much to do with comparative marketable skills, arising from the superior intelligence of a few outliers in any social group. In the West, people from poorer backgrounds, with pronounced intellectual abilities in some respected or useful field of study, have been plucked out of their birth class for centuries, mentored by the elites and educated in elite institutions alongside the children born to privilege, regardless of any physical differences, differences in clothing or patterns of speech that might reveal their lower-class origins. This resulted in advancing Western society in many ways, with outstanding examples in wide-ranging disciplines from Sir Issac Newton, the poor farm boy scholarship case, to Alexander Hamilton, the kid with an unconventional home life who was identified by his economic betters as a financial wizard in his early teens. This process started long before the virtue signalers started thumping on their diversity bible.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  282. @Blind_understanding

    Well you need some more nitpicking help as you erroneously describe my last response as nitpicking when it was no more than an explanation of a previous reply which did contain an element at least of nitpicking. What is more you say, without any evidence, that I have no opinion on your “spin on the topic”. What I will now volunteer is that more people might give respectful attention to your “spin” and form opinions about it if you were seen to have done your readers the courtesy of taking due care. After all, we now know that you take yourself and your views seriously enough for that to make sense.

  283. @TT

    Where did you learn your interesting views of history. The “Yanks” – meaning I suppose pre 1960s white US Americans – razed Amazon forests and seized all the clean waters!!! Who, when, where? I doubt that you even know that most Amazon jungle, even now after decades of Brazilian cattle raisers’ clearings is regrowth over the cleared, farmed lands of the Amazonian inhabitants who quickly died in the 16th century of Eurasian diseases introduced by the Spanish and Portuguese.

    • Replies: @TT
  284. @jeff stryker

    Jeff: Brahmin and other higher castes have Caucasian DNA markers from ancient Aryans who originated in what is today the Ukraine and black Sea.
    Is it this ancient Caucasian admixture that seemingly boosts their intellect? If so, why are Tamil Nadu higher IQ than Punjabi, who arguably possess the greatest admixture of white blood (Hun, Greek, Scythian).

    Blind: It’s selective breeding. The Brahmin have existed as an upper strata of society, an have used selective breeding to stay there. If the Tamil Nada are scoring higher than Brahmin in average IQ it’s because they have a better selective breeding program.

    Here is a parallel example:
    Intelligence & the Wealth & Poverty of Nations – Prof Lynn
    Table of national average IQs and the wealth of nations – Israel IQ=94

    … Even factoring in the 20% Arabs at the IQ for neighboring Lebanon (IQ=86), and the 1% Falashas at the IQ for Ethiopia (IQ=63), the Jewish Israeli IQ is still only about 97. This is nothing like the 115 figure touted for U.S. Jews. The U.S. figure is simply an average score for the U.S. upper-middle class, in which social class most U.S. Jews live.

    The dropping-out phenomenon: Jewish losers in the U.S. (and that’s about 2 out of every 3) leave the Jewish upper-middle class enclave for the American mainstream and (usually) abandon Judaism for christianity (usually Catholicism for some reason) or Agnosticism. In Israel this process of constant dropping out into the embedding host culture is not possible, and Jews who fall to the lower classes must retain their Jewish identity.

    And then there is the reverse process: The dropping-in phenomenon: “The Jews” in America have become somewhat of an upper-middle-class social club. Quite a few successful business people and celebrities convert to Judaism and drop-in to the Jewish nation-within-a-nation. And again, this is something that can’t happen in Israel.

  285. TT says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    How the West destro forests & buy up drinking waters, with US regime change Brazil prez to grab everything.

    Barons”: Wall Street Mega-Banks are Buying up the World’s Water

    Are Stealing Our Livelihood and We Aren’t Even Noticing

    There you have it. Nestlé, Coca Cola, PepsiCo, Dow Chemicals and other transnationals with strong water interests, Veolia, Suez (French), Thames (UK), Bechtel (US), Petrobras and a myriad of others, join together with the World Bank, Inter-American Development Bank (IDB), different UN bodies, and many multi- and bilateral donors, so-called development institutions – as well as dozens more ultra-liberal organizations, NGOs and corporations, pretending to work for the good of humanity; for the good of hundreds of millions of people who persistently are deprived of affordable potable water by an onslaught of water privatization (Organizers and supporters of the WWF).

    Flashback to the World Economic Forum in Davos (January 2018). Brazilian President Temer attended this year’s WEF. Temer, a corrupt criminal, should be in prison rather than running a most wonderful country, Brazil, into the ground. Literally. His only purpose to be in Davos was to tell this elite forum about his intention to sell out and privatize his country, foremost water resources.

    Scientists are terrified that Brazil’s new president will destroy the ‘lungs of the planet’

    Nestle destroyed rainforests illegally

  286. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    America does not import Muslim Malaysians or even Muslim Filipinos.

    I means US & West brought in Muslims in many millions, not limited to Spore or Msia Muslims. Its said France now has near half population Muslim.

    While many Muslims are good nature, so are Buddhist, Hindus & Christians, but Islams by its doctrine can’t co-live with non believers equally in peace(either jihad or pay a fee). They can’t share food(need halal), not allow to leave their religion or mix marriage without been excommunicated by their tace, and won’t allow non Muslim leaders. Very much exclusive, its either you are part of them, or outsiders.

    Even PM LKY exclaimed he was successful to mold all races into Sporean identity to live harmoniously, but found it impossible for Malay Muslims.

    So the Malay Muslims uproared & demanded him to apologize with a lie that he was wrong as he found indeed Islam is such peace loving religion, they could co-live with anyone in harmony. PC has killed every pragmatic good leaders.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  287. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    Chinese business men are not any kinder than whites when come to greed. However, top China leaders having long term win win mindset, are certainly much better than insane whites leaders, who will deploy every violent means & lies to help their capitalists exploit.

    British are probably best in creating a long term functional colony among all colonists, whose principle is a complete exploitation with ruthless atrocities.

    However anglosaxons are not any saint, they love to play divide & rule, always purposely created border dispute before they left for future divide to exploit, such as India-China, India-Pak, China-Jp, ..

    HK is a slum of stink sewages & excessive speculated property colony, infested with violent crimes until China took back to make it No1 low crimes rate. Its prosperity largely due to China trade & majority Chinese. Same for Spore, due to strategic location, majority Chinese & some visionary leaders.

    Look at Msia & Indonesia, Philippines, Myanmar, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. Its not a coincidence that whichever has higher Chinese ethnic %, are always better developed & prosperous, be it a British or other colony.

  288. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    Malays are like Pinoys, just been lay back, lazy & poor. Not a real evil, just pay them enough to live & they will jolly well let you run everything. But make sure you are majority & hold the army, as their tribalism can be easily exploited for racial riots by politicians & CIA.

    Whereas “most” Indians are great liars & too sly to partnership. They will cheat & steal with any mean to took over all business. They know themselves well enough, as the better one always fall victims to their own worst kind.

    Spore is completely fcuk by PM Lee hold ransom by US espionage. This link explains what similar to China opium war unequal treaty this MF Lee had signed with US FTA & India CECA. Only US is abled to arm twist a nation to sell out, short from a regime change.

    Since, all kinds of cheats & crooks flood in, even with infamous Indian Dr Death (they also ravaged in Oz & US) swamp our hospitals with fake certificates, killing patients with impunity, replacing locals by tribalism, degrading Sg to another Little Shithole. These cheats get out of India shithole they created from, to come Sg creating another shithole.

    But no one will talk about now even cabinet ministers, member of parliament, top civil posts, judicial high judges, banking chief, finance MAS(central bank), home affairs, law ministry, are appointed with low grade Indians, many from India with granted residency. In short, Indianized.

    Its said Canada & UK are heading for same fate with future PM India. US will be multi colors as its too huge for Indian to accomplish alone flooding out whites & Chinese. Not sure if Oz & Nz will be next. Then 5Lies are doomed by joos.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  289. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    I wrote another comment to refute your allegation that wherever Chinese rule will ruin each country like joos, or ply it with drugs & violent, which you quoted Philippines as example.

    But unz just didn’t publish it. Unz also don’t show if a comment is pending approval nowadays, just disappear. So no one know what happen.

    Your allegation is plain nonsense, just compare every Chinese majority ruled countries with other non Chinese ruled countries, the result is obvious. If Chinese ruling is so bad as you said, then China, HK, Macau, Taiwan & Spore will be worst than india & Philippines. Yet they all stay well above West in most rankings & safety.

    Even Msia with 20% Chinese help could make it a much better country compare with its similar Malay race Indonesia who has only 3% Chinese ethnic. If Philippines has 70% Chinese majority, im sure it would be another Spore on steriod, 10x. Even Myanmar, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos largely depending on Chinese ethnic to grease their prosperity.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  290. @TT

    If Indians ran Hong Kong or Singapore, they would be worse than they are. I would agree with that.

  291. @TT

    Jews are so deeply embedded in the financial systems and media of the United States that replacing them with Indians would be impossible.

    Canada and the UK never had such dense concentrations of Jews at the top of the power structure and while Jews may talk a good game about multi-cultural values none of them are going to hand over the keys to Central banking to Indians or Hollywood.

    White engineers and IT coders may find their cities flooded with arrogant smelly Indians but these people are not going to cause the Jews to lose their jobs in banking or media or judiciary positions.

    It is harder for Indians to immigrate to begin with. Any Tamil drunkard can wash up in Singapore illegally, get a job in some Indian restaurant illegally, bring his wife illegally to Singapore, then have a bunch of kids who are legal Singapore citizens. This is harder in the US.

    And again, most of the doctors and lawyers in the US are Jews. And they won’t be losing THEIR jobs to Indians with fake certificates.

    The US HASN’T imported millions of Muslims despite the wars it starts in the Middle East. How many Iraqi or Syrian refugees do you think the US is going to accept? Or Israel? Or Saudi Arabia? Nope, the Uighur will go to Malaysia and the Syrians and Afghani will go to Europe.

    As I pointed out to Talha, the few Muslim immigrants the US does accept are businessmen or white-collar professionals. These people are unlikely to rape young boys in public swimming pools like Africans in Germany.

    • Replies: @TT
  292. AaronB says:

    Wait – so British Indians have the same IQ as British whites (100), yet significantly outperform them on every academic and professional metric.

    I guess this is one more nail in the coffin of IQ believers….

    It’s amazing what people can do when they are motivated and have something to prove, even if they are in relative terms not especially talented.

  293. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    You sure jews arent thick in UK & Canada? They are everywhere,even in China, but their look cant deceive Hans.

    There are plenty of people who could replace Theresa May.

    David Davis’s mother married a Polish-Jew called Ronald Davis.[3]

    David Davis

    Jeremy Corbyn has said: “There is a Jewish element in my family, probably from Germany.”

    Jeremy Corbyn: ‘My Jewish ancestry’

    Boris Johnson has affirmed his Jewish ancestry .

    Has the Kosher Nostra fallen out with Theresa May?

    Wow 1 in 20 of Dr Death in US since 2005. Wonder what will be its % by now, and their killing rate. SG allowed some Indian Drs into public hospital under CECA treaty (SG don’t accredited most India certificate esp medical), and outpatients start to die with one Indian got send back without disclose reason. Unlike IT & legal, Fake Dr can’t hide for too long with too many deaths.

    Indians and Indian-Americans make up the largest non-Caucasian segment of the American medical community, where they account for one in every 20 practicing doctors.

    Now US even come with a 37 year-old Dr. Murthy is the youngest Surgeon General in the history of America.

    You sure joos are in full control & will not get subtly replace over time by equivalent shrewd ethnic but of 1.3B number?

    They can be as good in finance, banking, media, legal, judiciary, politics, cabinet minister….consider 9% Indians are now replacing all SG 75% Chinese ethnic in most top positions within 10yrs.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  294. @AaronB

    Success does not only depend on talent, diligence is also a factor. Recent immigrants are often more motivated than well established natives.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  295. Logan says:

    paralleling the way in which southern India is rich and northern India is poor.

    Looking at a per capita GDP map of India, it seems to be rather more that the west is rich and the east poor.

  296. @TT

    No, Indians won’t replace the Jews who run Wall Street and the mass media. Not a chance. They may replace white IT workers, but the controls will remain in the hands of the people who own the United States.

    Their numbers might increase on US streets, but not in the halls of power.

    As for the UK, Hindus and Jews are both in danger of the Muslims who will eventually take over that country.

  297. AaronB says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Of course, you are correct. One might almost say that is blindingly obvious.

    I was just reading through Edward’s comments, and found it amusing how he contradicts himself without realizing it.

    He comes across as a “hard” IQist, then produces evidence that contradicts that when it serves his purposes in another argument, without seeming to notice.

    Of course, that’s par for the course for hard IQists.

  298. Thomm says:

    I did argue their point. You are too stupid to see why.

    Then again, you seem to want to say that Afghanistan is some ultra-intelligent country. That shows the mental caliber you actually possess (i.e. low).

  299. Edward says:

    I don’t know what you mean when you describe me as a “hard IQist” in your comment below. I believe that IQ matters a lot, but that other factors matter too. For the record, I’m a pro-immigration liberal who happens to be interested in IQ, which is why I’m interested in the facts. Some people on here seem to only be interested in IQ because it ‘validates’ their political views.

    There’s no doubt that people – and groups – can punch above their weight because they are harder-working and more disciplined, especially if they have something to prove, as you say.

    In the UK, state school students outperform private school students at university. At medical school, one girl I knew was the first in her family to go to university, and went to a pretty shoddy high school in a working-class area, and she was the hardest-working student in the cohort (correspondingly, she got excellent grades).

    In the UK, Black Africans and Black Caribbean immigrants both have IQs of around 93-94. Yet, Black Africans do significantly better than Black Caribbeans, probably because Black Africans have arrived more recently, meaning that their work ethic is higher.

    On the other side of the coin, if a group of people have a dysfunctional culture and community, then they won’t do very well. The white working-class in the UK are the prime example of this. The white middle-class and upper-class in the UK do pretty well.

  300. @Edward

    The white UK lower class has to see their daughters groomed by Pakistani child traffickers and black gangs.

    The presence of these folks does not improve their communities.

    How Hindus manage to avoid this same fate could be IQ but is more likely bone-deep antipathy.

  301. AaronB says:

    I apologize if you are not in fact a hard IQist (someone who believes IQ explains nearly everything). Your comments did give off that impression, but I’m happy if it isn’t so. Hard IQists are extremely common on this site.

    Otherwise I think your comment is pretty reasonable and balanced and I agree with it. Except that I probably think IQ explains even less than you do, and have come to find it boring, after having engaged with it for over a decade and discovered too many limitations and discrepancies to count.

    If you are interested in IQ, for an opposing viewpoint, you might find it interesting to read Nassim Taleb in

  302. Kinda strange that such retards built some of the earliest civilizations and technologies.. Like the Indian subcontinent had the highest GDP for millennia before the supposedly intelligently superior whites.. Also why those same retards were smart enough to develop bras centuries before so their women’s tits wont start sagging sooner.. or that they developed natural medicines thousands of years ago that are wonders even today.. Maybe the greatest achievement of all is that such a small planetary area has a population of almost 2 Billion people almost equivalent to the entire planet except china and sustained the largest population density without high tech cultivation while Rome had to conquer half the planet to sustain a few million people.. Dont forget the over 400 languages and all that goes with it. Except for the last 500 years of invasions and conquests and imperialism, the sub continent had some of the most advancements and discoveries on the planet.. Including having a democratic government long before any western civilization by thousands of years.. Some group learns to use violence as an art form to suppress, plunder and steal and all off a sudden they have become intelligent and smart..

  303. @Edward

    On the other side of the coin, if a group of people have a dysfunctional culture and community, then they won’t do very well. The white working-class in the UK are the prime example of this. The white middle-class and upper-class in the UK do pretty well.

    Not necessarily, if their average IQ is quite high. You have to norm expectations by genetics. If Indians do just as well as them despite lower IQ then they do worse in terms of purely socio-economic factors.

    • Replies: @Edward
  304. @denk

    The simple reason is tptb want Indians running the show


    How Asian immigrants get preferential treatment when starting a business

    Government and Business Sponsored Minority Privilege

    US Pan Asian American Chamber of Commerce

    Supplier Diversity Program

    The National Minority Supplier Development Council

    Minority Business Development Agency

    Minority Business Development Centers

    Office of the White House Initiative on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders

    Wells Fargo Asian Business Services

    Microenterprise Development Program

    Minority Business Loans

    Minority Grants

    USINPAC (United States and India PAC)

    Asian American Hotel Owners Association

  305. @Medvedev

    First you need to be confident in 76 IQ figure to make such assumptions

    I’m confident.

    India Once Released 25,000 Flesh-Eating Turtles Into the Ganges

    A plan to clean up corpses failed due to lack of planning

    In the late 1980s, India’s government announced a plan to release specially bred flesh-eating turtles into the Ganges river.

    “Now, the government has begun breeding them on a farm near Lucknow.” The turtles were raised on dead fish, “so that they wouldn’t develop a taste for the living,”

    Some 25,000 flesh-hungry turtles, and $32 million dollars later, the plan was a failure, Atlas Obscura reports:

    It was plagued by corruption and mismanagement, and though plenty of forethought was put into raising the turtles, not so much attention was paid to seeing that they survived in the wild after their release, and as a result, they were poached* and killed in large numbers.

    *[homer simpson voice] mmmm…free range cadaver fed turtles.

  306. @Edward

    2009-10 Cognitive Abilities Test (CAT), taken by almost every schoolchild in Britain

    Three points:
    1. Not an actual IQ test, hence the “suggest that the average IQ”
    2. A test on young children and not adults.
    3. I would like to know how broad the “white” category is. Are Muslims from the Middle East counted as white?

    • Replies: @Edward
  307. @Igor Bundy

    retards were smart enough to develop bras centuries before so their women’s tits wont start sagging sooner

    Bras Make Breasts Sag, 15-Year Study Concludes

    Wearing a bra does more harm than good – it does nothing to reduce back pain and weakens the muscles that hold up the breasts, resulting in greater breast sagging, Jean-Denis Rouillon, a sports science expert from the University of Besançon, France, reported after a 15-year study.

  308. @Igor Bundy

    Indus Valley was a river delta, so obviously it supported a huge population. So did the Tigris Valley and so did the Nile. That is not really a modern measure of development.

    Prior to British Raj the country of India did not even exist. And Kashmir, to this day, is obviously disputed. So while the British might have oppressed India, it also created a country that exists today. And Muslims controlled India prior to British rule with more oppression.

    As for the fact that India has a huge population, this is mostly due to the lack of family planning of lower castes or Muslim Indians. Brahmin rarely have more than two children. India’s huge population simply creates more poverty and less resources.

  309. Edward says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Indians have the same average IQ as whites in the UK (100). The white middle-class and upper-class still underperform relative to their IQ, yes, but their underperformance is nowhere near as bad as that of the white working-class (look at the statistics, it’s awful).

    See, for instance, this report:

    The University of Oxford is now running programs to try to increase the representation of white working-class people in their university.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Avan
  310. Edward says:

    The Cognitive Abilities Test (CAT) is an actual IQ test. It’s a test of verbal, quantitative and non-verbal (i.e. abstract and visuo-spatial) abilities, and is highly g-loaded.

    Children typically take the CAT at age 11 in the UK (though my year group in my school took it at age 13; we had to agree to allow Durham University to use our data), and as per the work of Deary and colleagues, we know that there’s a ~0.7 correlation between rank-order IQ at age 11, and rank-order IQ at age 79). IQ test scores at age 11-13 are regularly used in the longitudinal studies used to look at the influence of g on later life outcomes.

    The CAT was also the measure of g used in the landmark 2007 study by Ian Deary and colleagues, of over 70,000 British children, looking at the relationship between intelligence (at age 11) and educational achievement (at age 16). They found an astounding correlation of 0.81 between intelligence and educational achievement.

    As the study states:

    At age 16, obtaining five or more GCSEs at grades A⁎–C is an important criterion. For those at the mean level of g at age 11, 58% achieved this; a standard deviation increase or decrease in g altered the values to 91% and 16%, respectively.

    On the reliability of the CAT:

    The CAT is the most widely used test of reasoning abilities in the UK, with close to one million school students assessed each academic year… CAT2E has 10 separate subtests, which are aggregated into three batteries, providing standardised measures of verbal, quantitative, and nonverbal reasoning abilities. An average of the three standardised scores, the mean CAT score, is also calculated…The results are most often reported as standard age scores, with a mean of 100 and standard deviation of 15. The tests have very high levels of reliability.

    In the 2009-10 study, which had sample sizes in the thousands (much higher than the fairly shoddy, outdated and small n studies sometimes used to estimate national and immigrant IQs), the Chinese group scored ~108, the Indians and the Whites scored ~101; the Bangladeshis scored ~97; the Pakistanis scored ~95; and the Black Africans and Black Caribbeans scored ~94.

    This largely mirrors performance academically and in the economy, except that Indians massively overperform academically and in the economy relative to their IQ, and Black Africans tend to do a bit better than Black Caribbeans (despite having similar IQs). If your knee-jerk reaction to the CAT was to reject it based on British Indians’ high scores – and you think they have even lower IQs – then that starts to become a problem for IQ research, given that every real-world indicator already shows a mismatch (which can just about be explained by Indians’ work ethic and academically-oriented culture).

    And no, Muslims from the Middle East are not counted as “White”.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    , @Avan
  311. @AaronB

    ● Marilyn vos Savant has an IQ of 228, the highest ever recorded, according to the Guinness Book of Records. And her greatest achievement so far is: She runs an “Ask Marilyn” column on Parade magazine, where she answers readers’ questions on puzzles.

    ● Michael Langan is said to have an IQ of 190 to 210, and has been called the “smartest man in the world”. And his greatest achievement so far is: He runs a horse ranch in Missouri and posts on Quora.

    ● Albert Einstein had an estimated IQ of 160. And his greatest achievement was the General Theory of Relativity which has been called “the greatest intellectual and philosophical leap-forward in human history”.
    Einstein once said: “It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer”.

    Having the ability to score highly on IQ tests doesn’t mean much, unless you also have the desire and the determination to apply that ability to something more profound.

  312. @Blind_understanding

    Exactly. Walter “Mitty” O’Brien who has one of the highest IQs ever recorded created Scorpion for CBS and each episode was worse than the one before.

  313. AaronB says:

    Then the comparison to Jews is even more apt, as Jews massively over-perform their IQ as well.

    The takeaway from all this is that IQ is significant, but equally significant is culture.

    And that whites in the Anglosphere are underperforming due to cultural reasons – the “decadence” that set in after WW2.

    But as a culture, we really need to emphasize motivation and culture more. In any event, these things are cyclical, and whites will probably regain motivation at some point.

  314. AaronB says:

    Absolutely. And conversely, having determination and burning desire can lead to massively over-performing your IQ, as we see with Jews, Indians, and East Asians to some extent.

    The key is motivation – why do groups lose motivation? Why do they suddenly become motivated again? It has to do with complex psychological and historical reasons, hard to disentangle.

    We do know that trends don’t last indefinitely, and at a certain point begin to reverse themselves.

  315. @Blind_understanding

    Every serial killer has had a high IQ.

    It really depends upon what the person chooses to do with it.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  316. @Edward

    The Cognitive Abilities Test (CAT) is an actual IQ test

    At the time I was thinking of something like the WISC that is a world standard as I never heard of the CAT and thought it was only used by the British government. But I later learned that the CAT is more widely used.

    Children typically take the CAT at age 11 … my … school took it at age 13 … ~0.7 correlation between rank-order IQ at age 11, and rank-order IQ at age 79

    What I had in mind is that different races develop at different rates as children. Whites, asians and boys have puberty slightly later than non-whites and girls, and they may continue to develop into later in life. A test at 11-13 will come at a time to show the effects of early development and ignore development that occurs at 14-21. In fact, on the CAT, girls score higher than boys on two of the three sections. I, for one, welcome our new female Indian overlords.

    And no, Muslims from the Middle East are not counted as “White”.

    I have only studied this pdf: Cognitive Abilities Test (CAT) and GCSE grades: 2009/10. There is no “Middle East”, but there is “Any other Asian” and “Unclassified”.

    I would assume Saudis, Egyptians, Libyans, Armenians, Russians, Poles, Italians etc. are all stuffed into the “White British” category that comprises 84% of the sample.

    One interesting group is the Rural/Urban categories. Rural scores 2.5 to 4.3 higher than urban. I would be curious to know more about the composition of the rurals.

    Also, the “White British” sample is 145,340. This is being compared to much smaller samples. Indian: 3,296. Black Carribbean: 1,978. Chinese: 519. These are 2%, 1%, and 0.4% of the “White British” size.

    I would like to see the scores of Britons living in China. Or even India or Israel.

    • Replies: @Edward
  317. @Blind_understanding

    Marilyn vos Savant…Michael Langan …Albert Einstein…Having the ability to score highly on IQ tests doesn’t mean much

    Marilyn vos Savant: Rich celebrity. Married to the inventor of the artificial heart (who is worth $2.5 million) … Loser.

    Michael Langan: Won $250,000 on a game show. Owns 140 acres of land. … Loser

    Albert Einstein: [“estimated” IQ, LOL, but I’ll go with it anyway] Famous person everyone recognizes. Invented e=mc2 which every person knows by heart. Yoda’s face modelled on him. … Loser.

    Conclusion: IQ isn’t real.

    • Replies: @Blind_understanding
  318. Anonymous [AKA "Amrit"] says:

    The issue with Indians has been no meat in diet for God knows how long, plus having to live with Muslims which has hampered any kind of progress….and then British Imperial rule! Please
    give them a break. Just look at the state of current vegan whites living in socialist Eurabia and then add 900 years of the same thing. Indians are doing ok considering.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  319. Edward says:

    I doubt that developmental rates are going to change things much, due to the aforementioned academic and economic outcomes for the different groups.

    Middle Easterners would probably be included in the “Asian other” category, while Poles and Russians would be included in the “White other” category.

    In any case, there’s no real difference between the White Irish, White Other and White British samples.

    The sample sizes don’t matter either: this is a nationally representative sample, which is why so many more White British students are in the sample. In fact, the sample probably includes almost every single child in Britain aged 11. Indians only make up around 2% of the British population in the first place, and Chinese make up less than 1%.

    The sample sizes for all of the major ethnic groups are very large and easily enough to detect statistically significant differences, and there are no real surprises in the results for anyone who lives in the UK, except that I would have expected Indians to score higher than ~100.

    As for rural areas, they will be less likely to include groups such as Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Black Africans and Black Caribbean students.

  320. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Blind wrote:
    [[1● Marilyn vos Savant has an IQ of 228, the highest ever recorded, according to the Guinness Book of Records. And her greatest achievement so far is: She runs an “Ask Marilyn” column on Parade magazine, where she answers readers’ questions on puzzles.
    2● Michael Langan is said to have an IQ of 190 to 210, and has been called the “smartest man in the world”. And his greatest achievement so far is: He runs a horse ranch in Missouri and posts on Quora.
    3● Albert Einstein had an estimated IQ of 160. And his greatest achievement was the General Theory of Relativity which has been called “the greatest intellectual and philosophical leap-forward in human history”.
    Einstein once said: “It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer”.]]
    Having the ability to score highly on IQ tests doesn’t mean much, unless you also have the desire and the determination to apply that ability to something more profound.

    Hippo rebuts points 1 and 2:
    [[Marilyn vos Savant: [married a rich guy]
    Michael Langan: [won money on a game show]]]

    Blind: Neither point indicates a profound achievement. Neither rebuts my ☛BOTTOM LINE: “Having the ability to score highly on IQ tests doesn’t mean much, unless you also have the desire and the determination to apply that ability to something more profound.”

    Hippo rebuts point 3: Albert Einstein: [Invented e=mc²; Yoda’s face “modelled” on him]

    Blind: e=mc² is a profound enough achievement in itself, but is part of his SPECIAL Theory of Relativity, I said GENERAL Theory of Relativity.
    Famous physicist, John Wheeler summarized Einstein’s GENERAL Theory of Relativity: “There is nothing in the World except empty curved space[-time]. [Gravity,] Matter, charge, electromagnetism, and other fields are only manifestations of the curvature of space[-time].” Which has been called “the greatest intellectual and philosophical leap-forward in human history”. …. and of course e=mc² fits right into that big general picture, but nevertheless, is still only a small part of it.

    Hippo at Blind: Loser.. loser.. loser.

    Blind: Ad-hominem insults. Nonsense! He has not rebutted my bottom-line point, let alone understood “profound achievement”. Doesn’t understand what General Relativity is, either, or why it is profound. Equates [Invented e=mc²], [Yoda’s face “modelled” on him]. [marrying a rich guy] and [winning money on a quiz show] .. in levels of profundity of achievement.

    I argue that he has not understood my point let alone, rebutted it.

  321. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Your IQ might be that low-

    Dahmer’s IQ was tested at 144 He was an army medic, which requires intelligence.

    Cunanan’s IQ was 147. He did earn a degree from U of California San Diego.

    Ted Bundy’s IQ was 136. He was a law school graduate.

    Charles Manson’s IQ was 121 but he was uneducated and this could have been a factor in his low test score (Still higher than average).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  322. Anon[409] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve never met a Dravidian that I would consider impressively intelligent, and I’ve known several. The best that I met was passable (probably around 115-120). The others often had that same high social facility and impulse that you find in blacks (at least half of them), but were probably 10-20 points higher (at 100-110) than the average Black.

    If you know Blacks, you know that the social impulse is generally a vehicle for a degree of sociopathy. Its purpose is to social climb and earn trust, which is later broken when the other person is victimized. Add the extra IQ, and that sociopathy becomes more effective.

    Though, the Dravidian tends to use it in more conventional ways (legally) for things like money (ie: readily betraying a business partner, going into vaguely or obviously exploitative businesses with higher payoffs, etc). Its probably cultural. The other half of them seem normal. I still generally dislike them as a people, and would never trust one. One quirk of theirs is that they will casually claim to be as white as any white person, and will be hurt if you flinch at that claim. Too funny.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  323. This essay is just plain silly,and one wonders about the lifestyle of “Lance Welton”.Perhaps Lance should get out and about a bit more and actually engage with people instead of playing with statistics? All this IQism seems to me to be the smart person’s variant of identity politics.
    I’ve spent several years in India and I wouldn’t have if I didn’t think that a lot of ordinary Indians (i.e. not super rich or super poor) were on the ball intellectually. Mind you,most of that time was spent in Kerala and everyone knows that Keralans are “above average”.Conversely,in India the state of Bihar is always the butt of a joke: dust bowl and basket case.Being Bihari is not a good place to be.These are observations. Here are some more.
    Indians have a literary culture and almost all Indians are multilingual. Indians in general have an awareness of their historical trajectory and of current political activities,domestic and foreign.More so than their American counterparts. They are vocal critics ,unaffected by the political correctness contagion. And they seem contentedly resigned to live with the “Indianness”-the heat ,the people and the chaos. Education is highly regarded and even the children of the poor are disciplined to do extra curricular homework. At least that was my impression in Kerala.
    But then Kerala has a long history of having Communist state governments. So has West Bengal- and I have a similar regard for the general intellect of the Begalis( perhaps some Bangladeshi stats might be interesting? )
    Also in these states is the overlap of Brahminism,and the Brahmin/communist combo.
    Got to say that Goans tend to be rather louche and lovely,as are so many Anglo-Indians. Anglo-Indians are delightful to interact with but are perculiarly driven people.Yes, it’s probably genetics.
    Of course India has CRITICAL MASS and can produce a genius from the multitudinous ranks of the untouchables.How does that compute in this essay?

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  324. @denk

    Thanks to Denk for mentioning the NAGAs. They are a very admirable and tenacious people.They have to be.

    • Replies: @denk
  325. @Anon

    I briefly worked in Kerala and the intelligentsia of Cochin are St. Thomas Christians who are probably descended from Middle Eastern Jews who converted to Christianity and intermarried with local Brahmin women.

    South Indians and particularly Malayalam are famous even in India for their dishonesty, pathological lying and white collar crime. Most go to prison for embezzlement in Dubai or Oman, where they are particularly distrusted by Arabs.

    The most intelligent people in South India are Tamil Brahmin.

    However, North India runs the country from Delhi so South Indians in general fell ostracized from power despite believing themselves more intelligent than Northerners.

  326. Edward says:

    Nice cherry-picking.

    Also, Marilyn vos Savant doesn’t have an IQ of 228. That’s a ratio IQ you’re quoting, not a deviation IQ, and in any case the psychologist who administered her test shouldn’t have been able to convert up to 228 in the first place. She probably has an IQ of 170+.

    Christopher Langan is probably extremely intelligent, but he’s only one case.

    Albert Einstein never had his IQ tested, meanwhile.

    Terence Tao has a ratio IQ of 220-230. In standard terms, he reached the ceiling of the Stanford-Binet, scoring 175+. Christopher Hirata had a ratio IQ of 225, while Kim Ung-Yong had a ratio IQ of 210.

    Tao, of course, won a gold medal in the International Mathematical Olympiad when he was 13. When he was 15, he published his first assistant paper. He received his Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees at the age of 16. And then he won the Fields Medal in 2006.

    Hirata was 13 when he won a gold medal in the International Physics Olympiad. He studied Physics at Caltech from the age of 14 to the age of 18. He’s now a successful cosmologist and astrophysicist.

    Kim Ung-Yong – who once held the Guiness World Record for the highest IQ. At three-years-old, he was attending university lectures, and could do calculus. He’s now a professor.

    Having the ability to score highly on IQ tests doesn’t mean much, unless you also have the desire and the determination to apply that ability to something more profound.

    That’s just an empty truism, carefully constructed to try to play down the importance of IQ. I could easily say the following: “having the desire and determination to apply your ability to do something profound doesn’t mean much unless you actually have the ability in the first place”.

    • Replies: @Blind_understanding
  327. @Australian lady

    “Moreso than their American counterparts”

    Nonsense you’re Australian or you would not have brought up Americans as a standard of comparison.

    I make you for a Malabari yourself. And the fact that you impersonate an Australian and a woman is indicative of your obsession with white Australian assaults on Indian students and your fundamental lust for light-skinned women.

    The trickery and mendacious cultural character of Malabaris is summed up by your attempt to misrepresent yourself.

  328. @Edward

    Edward: Nice cherry-picking.

    Blind: Nice nitpicking!

    Edward: Quotes Blind:

    Having the ability to score highly on IQ tests doesn’t mean much, unless you ALSO have the desire and the determination to apply that ability to something more profound.

    .. then comments: That’s .. carefully constructed to try to play down the importance of IQ.

    The comment is an example of the famous motive-questioning logical fallacy(also called the appeal-to-motive logical fallacy), a form of ad-hominem, where one questions the motives of the presenter of evidence or argument, in order to dismiss that evidence or argument.

    Edward then gives his own version of Blind’s quote:

    having the desire and determination to apply your ability to do something profound doesn’t mean much unless you ACTUALLY have the ability in the first place.

    .. He swapped the order of the 2 parameters (also swapped the ALSO with ACTUALLY). But not to add to the nitpicking .. that’s near enough to saying the same thing. YOU NEED BOTH!

    Your whole comment is just nitpicking, Edward. Both the intro and the punch line.

  329. Avan says:

    Nepotism is prevalent in EVERY race so while I claim Indian might be the most nepotistic which is true,Chinese and Jews can also be equally as nepotistic.So even if Indians are nepotistic doesn’t, change their GCSE scores or A level which is higher than Whites(at least in US,UK and Singapore).

    I’ve seen to many very bright Chinese, Koreans, EEuropeans working their a*s off, trying to complete unrealistic deadline set by Indian managers, failing to meet expectations, while Indian manager is bathing in glory and showcasing the achievement solely as his own. In the meantime, promoting another barely competent Indian

    Sorry but this is a low hanging accusation also used towards Jews as well.Indian “intelligence” I’m judging is based on their academic scores and if you’re talking about the West,average Indian score higher than whites.Saying a group of people take credit and claim is an old age attack based on jealousy.I never see the same accusation be made for European.This is like saying Russians act dumb therefore their immigrants are dumb.

    • Replies: @Medvedev
  330. Avan says:

    Pakistani have an IQ of 95?I thought 30% of the community had high cousin intermarriage.I expected their IQ to be lower considering the things I heard about crime in that community is so bad.

    I also didn’t expect Chinese to be that high although most are from HK and this parallel to the HK numbers.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  331. Avan says:

    Indians have the same average IQ as whites in the UK (100). The white middle-class and upper-class still underperform relative to their IQ, yes, but their underperformance is nowhere near as bad as that of the white working-class (look at the statistics, it’s awful).

    Yes im surprised by white underperformance in the GCSE.I chalked out to brain drain but that still doesn’t make sense.However if you look at college admission tests tho white perform as expected.So for some reason whites in UK schools perform bad.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  332. @Avan


    White lower class people have lost their conventional morality. Parents never marry or they divorce and kids grow up in single-parent unstable homes on the edge of the poverty.

    White lower class people often have kids young and without much reflection. An Indian with an IQ of 100 and two hardworking parents is different than the poor white kid who grows up with an ex-hippy single mother.

    White lower class people get into drugs young. Its fairly common for them to have started doing hard drugs at 14. Binge drinking, promiscuity, hopscotch from one rave to another…White lower class often just drug and drink their youth away. At 30, they have a kid and an ounce-a-week pot habit and no marketable skill.

    White lower class really don’t care about being respectable citizens. Indians seem to.

    These are the reasons Pakistani grooming gangs prey upon poor whites and not Hindus.

  333. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:
    @jeff stryker

    Obviously education boost IQ scores if it’s not capped.Seeing a sequence of pattern before hand at a young age,could help in improving it.Just like how someone who go to school would have faster response times at doing arithmetic then someone who have never schooled.One of the reason I’m optimistic about IQ scores of middle east&india is because of closing gap of height.Height is used in the past to justify IQ differences as being 80% genetic. Koreans and Chinese are catching up to European in height.Previously it’s thought that Asian are shorter due to genetics and in the last 10 yrs the gap has narrowed as Asian country become richer as well as changing diet.Korean and Chinese eat more meat in general to Japanese which is why you see Northern China averaging at 175-178 which is European level.
    Same case UK where British Indians are as tall White British despite India average is 165cm.Enviromental is more influential than expected.I suspect IQ between races being genetic 20%-40%

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  334. @Anonymous

    Canadian Sikh males are towering giants of 6 foot plus and I would not say they are as intelligent overall as Tamil Brahmin who are 5’2.

    Jews have never been tall on average. Most are on the shortish side of average.

  335. mattheus says:

    Hyderabad which is situated in Andhra Pradesh, is heavily Muslim (1/3). That state is both in the south and coastal.

  336. TT says:

    Not anymore with US shoving unequal treaty of India CECA down Lee Hsien Loon throat. Spore IQ & SAT, PISA,…ratings have been declining from Top1 sincethe flooding of Indian dredge.

    • Replies: @Avan Tennant
  337. TT says:

    You still have not provide your Indian vs Chinese medium income source. Did you have access to SG gov data?

    While you cited Chinese did score better than Indians in GCE Exams, what make you conclude better educated Chinese earn less than Indians who are less educated, with higher average crime rates & poverty?

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Edward
    , @Avan Tennant
  338. Medvedev says:

    I’m not talking about all Indians. Of course, there are plenty of brilliant Indian engineers who got there without nepotism and even face discrimination (by other Indians, Whites, Chinese).
    I rather talk about averages and general impression one may form after encountering people from different backgrounds in tech.

  339. denk says:
    @Australian lady

    The subjugation of the MOngoloid people of the ‘seven sisters‘ into Dravidian India ranks as one of the greatest genocide of the 20C.

    The Nagas were great warriors , they in fact saved the lives of many Indian jawans and Brits during ww2.
    They were betrayed first by the Brits, who left them to fend for themselves , at the mercy of New Delhi. They were again betrayed by Bharat, who at first promised them independence , but later reneged and sent in hundreds of thousands of brutal jawans to crush the Naga freedom fighters.

    The Naga fought with their signatory gallantry .
    The Indian invaders, while even tho enjoying massive numerical and firepower superiority, still struggled to subdue the plucky Nagas fighter.
    Eventually, the Indians had to resort to scorched earth tactics, mass rapes , genocidal warfare to snuff out the resistance.

    ‘The Naga peoples have suffered enough under the iron hands of Indian army, where hundreds of thousands of Nagas were killed, tortured, granaries and houses were reduced to ashes, besides, starvation to death, young girls and women were raped to death and many other untold sufferings.’

    Until this day, the seven sisters are still groaning under the yoke of the dreaded AFSPA, the most draconian ‘anti insurgency’ law on the planet.
    They become literally New Delhi’s captive concubines.

    Where’r those self appointed ‘human rights champions’ of the world, aka the 5lies .
    When you need them ???

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  340. denk says:

    there’s no official statistics on crime
    rates by ethnicity, its non PC, considered too ‘sensitive’ I guess. 😉

    Yet anyone in SEA, or has been reading SEA media, knows that Indian crime rate is way out of proportion to their ethnic ratio…..
    Especially in the sex crimes arena. !

    • Replies: @TT
  341. DB Cooper says:

    India is a Teflon country. It can pretty much do anything with impunity. Thousands of unmarked mass graves discovered in India occupied Kashmir? No problem. Invading and annexing Sikkim? No problem. Land grabbing every of its neighbors? No problem.

    • Replies: @denk
  342. denk says:
    @DB Cooper

    Indon is another teflon country, viz,
    1965, E Timor, Aceh, West Papua…..

    Of course USA is the biggest teflon of them all, literally licensed to kill.
    All its potus have been teflon prez,
    nuthin sticks.

    It even franchise out this privilege to all his ‘allies’.


    Looking back on it, I might have given MOdi a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.


    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  343. @denk

    The odd thing about Indians, even more than Chinese, is that they constantly compare themselves and are obsessed with white people and Western civilization.

    White people do not really care about Chinese or Indians. Yet Chinese and Indians can barely thing about anything but white people.

    Weirdly, they associate America with white people even though the media is quasi-Semitic (Jewish) and the athletes mostly black.

    One thing that America has managed to accomplish is keeping Indians and Chinese getting along better than they do in Singapore or Malaysia.

    In non-white countries, even developed ones like Singapore, Indians and Chinese quickly clash.

    • Replies: @tamo
    , @Edward
  344. TT says:

    That’s why i very much doubt this Indian Edward data, and his penchant of misquoting Spore to mislead everyone into believing Indians are performing better than Chinese or whites.

    With lower education, lower IQ & high crimes violent tendency, India Indians got to do enormous dirty tricks like jews to earn more than most hardworking smarter SG Chinese ethnic rated with ave 107 IQ. Im not sure India CECA also mandated SG Gov to reserve the highest paid jobs for their dredge, but many lowly qualified Indians are now flooding every important state department, from sElected Prez, most cabinet ministers, chief & Supreme judges, finance, bank, IT, education, ….down to fake Drs that killed.

    And these India IT dredge seemed to be a coincidence cause of many breakdown & breaches in SG Gov systems & data.

    While those Indians that study & migrated to West are their wealthiest & best cream out of 1.4B, its naturally they do better than average whites, or on par with most 4th rated mainland Chinese migrated there, but never even get close to 2nd rated Chinese studying in US ivory uni STEM fields.

    I have not seen a single Indian in real high tech when i was dealing with global IC design & electronics decades ago, except one in my company that talked his way up, but was caught by me for not even having the most basic design knowledge. One in whole SG & Asean, but a cheat.

    In India, there is only very few companies & engineers could design ASIC, and all are of very low end basic, even in Wipro. When one designer died, the company go down with him. Whereas often those Chinese engineers in US & Asia i met, be it from China, Twn, Msia or Sg, were surprisingly doing all the cutting edge design, some even holding principal engineer (Chief) position of big corps like HP, Adaptec, Intel…leading in technology forefront.

    Its known that China 1st rated stayed in China top uni like Qinghua/Beida, only 2nd rated took a scholarship to US/UK best uni. 3rd rated goes to Oz/SG/Jp. 4th rated if wealthy will go to study & stay in US/UK/Oz, otherwise any Asean uni.

    Still these 3rd rated Chinese often scored 1st class in SG uni, when SG 1st class students are those medal winner in US ivory uni, often granted with research fellowship.

    My short experience with China designers was they surprised my US team with their large scale design (i believed its for supercomputer application) only possible to be done by large corps like IBM, with enormous resources. And these 2 Chinese genius did all design by themselves without understanding any English. Soon i read that China lead in supercomputer.

    So i don’t know what kind of genius are those 1st rated China students. So its not a wonder that Huawei can lead in 5G when they recruited all the best engineers in China, and China are leading in many areas, sending their men to space or landed probe in dark side of moon.

    But what high tech products, innovations or real achievements India with its 1.4B Indians have ever produced so far in their 70yrs history? CEO of many big West corps, Pichai of Google, Nikki the US UN Ambassador, Tata, Wipro, Infosys, …all excel in one common field, guess what?

  345. DB Cooper says:

    You mean the field of Bullshit Artistry?

    • Replies: @TT
  346. tamo says:
    @jeff stryker

    I hate to burst your bubble. But as Chinese get wealthier and think they are smarter than whites thus their fascination with whites is beginning to fade and they started to look down on whites. It’s the typical case of the old saying FAMILIARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT. MOST of Chinese students want to go back to China after finishing their higher education in the U.S. because they are not particularly impressed with scholastic quality of American students and the American way of life in general. A 2017 -poll done by the Foreign Policy magazine bears this out. Sure there are some Chinese students who like the U.S. and stay in the country. But they are a minority.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  347. TT says:

    Why would jews want to exterminate all whites? They are useful for Walmart & McDonald, and canon fodder for Israel wars.

    Im seeing jews deep states are systematically depriving the majority whites from everything, education, good jobs, healthcare, self respect, independent thinking…delegating them to below non whites, known as White Trash . It may be to prepare US to switch place with China. US shall be global cheapest manufacturing hub, while China the largest consumption mkt.

    But most whites are blinded to all these, still living in the hubris of old white supremacy.

  348. TT says:
    @DB Cooper

    You know well…so they will be handy to help …(((joos))) bring all these big West corps down. Google & Microsoft fall will be spectacular, adding to your long list of corps ruin by Indians.

    SG Inc. is ruin in progress, but slow down as (((yanks))) suddenly decided its still not the right time to push for a convicted Indian PM, Tharman S., with a all Indian cabinet yet.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  349. @tamo


    That could be true, but one thing I have noticed about former British colonies like Malaysia and Singapore where Chinese and Indians live there is friction.

    Chinese and whites can sort of tolerate one another. Both quietly regard the other race as inferior to some degree. But a white-run society full of Chinese does not have race riots.

    Indians on the other hand, are a headache and a nightmare in Singapore and Malaysia.

    • Agree: tamo
    • Replies: @TT
  350. @TT


    If Singapore is run by Indians it will go straight down the tubes.

    • Replies: @TT
  351. Edward says:

    I apologize, I had meant to reply to you earlier. I had incorrectly quoted the data: they were data for total median household income, not median household income per head.

    Search up “median household income 2010 singapore” and “census of population 2010: statistical release 2”.

    Official Singaporean government data demonstrate that median monthly income in Singapore as a whole was $5,000 in 2010. They also demonstrate that Indians had a median household income of $5,370; Chinese had a median household income of $5,100; and Malays had a median household income of $3,844.

    So, you were wrong, and I was right. Unsurprisingly: virtually everything you’ve said is a load of nonsense, it’s hilarious.

    By the way, learn to write in English properly, and in complete paragraphs. Not that you have anything to contribute: all you’re doing is spewing your opinionated nonsense about Indians, without any evidence or data to back it up.

    • Replies: @TT
  352. Edward says:
    @jeff stryker

    Says a white person who seems to be obsessed with Indians, in a comment section under an article written by a white person obsessed with Indians.

    Oh, UR commenters really aren’t very self-aware, are they?

    In my experience, Indians couldn’t care less about the West, particularly about Britain (which is where I am from), unless they are thinking of investing in Britain, or employing British workers (Tata is the largest industrial employer in the UK). When the UK begs India for a trade deal after Brexit, India will play hard ball!

    Indians have more cultural affinity with the United States than Britain, I would say. Surprising, given the historical closeness between the UK and India. I think it’s a terrible shame that my country has not done more to cultivate and preserve links with India.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
    , @denk
    , @denk
  353. @Edward

    “Indians have more cultural affinities with the US than Britain?”

    What?! Indians have been pouring into UK since the day they stopped being British subjects in 1947.

    By the time the US began to get Indians en mass they had all but taken over half of London.

    Actually, Sikhs got to Canada in greater numbers than the US because it was part of the British Commonwealth which is why there is more Indian crime in Canada than the US.


    Tata is a Parsee. Iranian.

    “I am from Britain”

    Yeah, that fits.

    “Couldn’t care about the West”

    I’m a white America aka Gora who had the mixed-blessing of working and living in India. My experience is a bit different.

  354. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    That’s not correct, jeff.

    I grown up with indian friends & neighbors, we are always in harmony. They even speak our dialect, eat n play with us so we all go along very well.

    Even Indians are crime prone & violent among themselves, they are friendly & helpful to non Indians, except Indian men like to drink & beat up their wife. Indian women are quiet & passive, never a nuisance.

    Its always Malays that committed crimes against everyone including themselves. Their tribal religion also easily get instigated by external force to create tension & riots for political mean. They had in past kill many Chinese in Spore & Msia with riots spread from Msia. So its Chinese & Indians finding problem to mix with Malays.

    But those influx of India Tamil Indians are not like our brother Indians we grown up with, they are violent cheats & drunkards even our Indians loathe them much. They are totally unlike those well manner educated Indian expatriates from US Corps i deal with.

    I believed these are what most India people themselves hated dredge. In India, i met lots of such cheats as well as good ones. But CECA treaty has open flood gate to allow unfiltered India cheats to enter is problem.

    Its a menace to any nation consider their number is so huge, clanish & predatory. This causes lot of negative view towards India, esp those get flooded in Spore, Sri Lanka, Maldive, Mauritius, Nepal, Bhutan,…im not sure about Arabs countries & Africa their feeling towards Indians.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  355. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    We are called Little Delhi now. It will be called Little India when these Indians completed their ruling.

    Then we will see open sewage, cows, slums, beggars, bickering politicians, with clownish Modi like PM sending our F15 bombing Msia Muslims for nationalistic votes.

    The last time im back to SG, its everywhere flooded with dark indians…so suffocating. That was also when i saw our 1st riots in 40yrs, 300s violent Indians burning many police cars & ambulances. Its said many polices were injured & some died. PM Lee gagged all & try covered up everything, but many videos were posted on youtube you can find easily.

    I like travel in India & enjoy their culture & many things. Their far North are beautiful, people are well manner and friendly. Not middle region, like Bihar, Delhi, Calcutta,.. these are slums filled with cheats. Chennai & Bangalore are better but still chaotic traffic & dirty.

  356. TT says:

    Could you do us a favour by providing the link you get your data? Shouldn’t hurt your finger to paste it. Lots of datas in SG gov sites, but always our gov play hide & seek to refuse racial & poverty profiling.

    So, you were wrong, and I was right. Unsurprisingly: virtually everything you’ve said is a load of nonsense, it’s hilarious.

    Don’t be silly, even if your data turn out verifiable correct, its 2010 one year old data. Do you have ten yrs data, or more up to date data to prove? Provide links pls. Thks.

    By the way, learn to write in English properly, and in complete paragraphs. Not that you have anything to contribute: all you’re doing is spewing your opinionated nonsense about Indians, without any evidence or data to back it up.

    If you find my English unbearable, you can ignore. Its comment, not essays. Im writing in simple British Cambridge English, you should have no issue to read since you resided in UK.

    You are just one India jack ass trying to sell your flaw argument using my country as basis. Sure you really want everyone to believe you do know better about my country than me. Good try on your forte, Bullshit Artistry!

    If someone reported that Indian ave IQ is below 70, i will believe. Not that Indians are all stupid, it has many princely states of great civilization before been cobbled up to form India. But its the miserable poor education system, with over 40% illiteracy, caste system, religious extremity, superstitious, extreme poverty, and utter corrupted ruling class that make it highly possible.

    Just look at how all India leaders make themselves a big joke infront the world, lying shamelessly on Modi’s failed election stunt bombing PAK that gone wrong. These goons are now celebrating with drums beating & dancing, for having their 2 jets shot down with a captured pilot. And the surrendered pilot lynched by villagers with bloody face, are now make India legendary hero. What IQ you want to give? 70 is way too high.

  357. @TT


    The Indians you grew up with multi-generational Singaporean Indians. They have a vested interest in a country they were born.

    Also, I have a feeling the Singaporean Indians appreciate Chinese standards to some degree. Before the Chinese took over Singapore, it was a bunch of Indian and Malay laborers drinking Tapica in poverty.

    They know, as whites know, that Chinese made Singapore the place it is.

    Recent Indian immigrants don’t know or care about, well, anything.

  358. denk says:

    I think it’s a terrible shame that my country has not done more to cultivate and preserve links with India.

    I think its a terrible shame that the Brits are still wallowing in the good ole days , when they could send their gunboats up the Yangtze willy nilly, to teach those chinamen who’s the boss around here.

  359. denk says:

    I think it’s a terrible shame that my country has not done more to cultivate and preserve links with India.

    I think its a terrible shame that the Brits are still wallowing in the good ole days , when they could send their gunboats up the Yangtze willy nilly, to teach those chinamen who’s the boss around here.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  360. denk says:

    Lord Archer: Indians are the ‘new Jews’ and are taking over Britain

    I’ve been saying this all along….

    Indians are the new chosen ones.,
    chosen by the wasp/jews ruling class to run their one world disorder…,,
    From the 5lies and beyond, all their ‘allies’ have to follow the same template,
    Singapore is already down, smothered by Indian WMM, next in line… TW, JP


  361. @denk


    No living Brit remembers that at all. Your historical grievance is long forgotten.

  362. @Esaka

    Yep. Some guys like to blame “MUH MUZZIEZ” but well that is just false

  363. @Avan

    I am also very surprised at te scores te Bangladeshis are getting. My friend who is from there( I myself have heritage from India but still Bengali) tells me that all the Bangladeshis that went to the UK were the dregs, the war criminals, thepoor villagers and islamists and just general trash. They came after their own war in 1971 and my friend exlained that they tok all the dumbass ones, as the country was in anarchy. He went on to explain that if you met their family and whatnot youd realize that too. Trange seeing the worst of the Bangladeshis still beat Blacks even with higher poverty rates. THE gap to whites is also nothing. Interesting indeed

  364. @Anonymous

    You guys always blame the Muslims lmao stop its getting pathetic

  365. @jeff stryker

    Historical revisionisn and lies. The golden age of India was schieved under the Mughals and the British destroyed averything

  366. @attilathehen

    If the muslim is born and raised with citizenship yes they are lol

  367. @TT

    Youre wrong about the halal part. Others can eat halal food, males can marry other christians or jews, and they certainly can and do live with each other
    They also allow non muslims to be leaders.

    • Replies: @TT
  368. @anonymous

    Make an account bruv join me. I xome from an Indian Muslim background as well

  369. @anonymous

    As an ethnic Bengali, those numbers are fake lmao

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  370. TT says:

    What I said is everyone can eat halal food, but not vice versa. So there’s problem in socializing, special hala food has to be prepared for Muslim guest. Eateries have to be separated, even in army. Any processed food must be halal certified to cater to Muslims.

    Of course Muslim men can & love to marry other religion women, they have been diligently preying on others women to increase Muslim number globally, sponsored by gulf oil $. But will they allow their women free marriage to non Muslims without converting?

    You will be lucky if they don’t slit your throat or stone you to death if you touch their women. In Spore, the whole Muslim Malays will excommunicated any Malay women married to non Muslim, while their men will force non Muslim wife to put on dudong.

    And don’t be foolish to say Muslims allow non Muslim to be their leaders, that’s not halal. Even moderate Muslim Sporean openly expressed its unacceptable for our Chinese leaders to lead. As long they could gain upper hand one day, they will make everything halal by any means, short of violent secession. Any country with substantial Muslim number are facing separatists jihad violence except West(they won’t instigate in own land), no? Perhaps France is ripen to be converted a Islam country.

    Only similar fanatic West Christian Crusaders or India Hindus can match Muslims jihadis to massacre each other mercilessly in long history, still happening in ME & India.

    Europe is ruined by anglozionists driven Muslims immigration policy, they can never assimilate these Muslims, nor get rid of without a Holocaust. Its a disaster awaiting to erupt. Brexit is a likely a response to escape.

    There is no way to assimilate Islam, even in SG its always been a great nuisance of their loud blasting 5am prayer in mosque & illegal occupying of public places & roads. Gov dare not interfer in fearing of their extreme reaction. Anyone speaking against Islam even true will be jailed in Spore.

    Its a underlying security threat to every states. Even most Muslim countries are facing jihadis terrorism & constraint in policy making all hindered by Islam.

    Sorry to speak the hard truth. Only ask if i speak the truth, not about who & what. PC has killed all such realistic conversation to call a spade as spade. Islam & jews are biggest threat to world peace. India is only a tool used by jews now to replace whites & counter China(for breaking their global absolute control). Without jews driving behind, poor India has zero influence in global, except their unfortunate small neighbors.

  371. @BengaliCanadianDude

    I think your perceiving anti-Muslim bias because you are Bangladeshi.

    And the Gupta clan of Bengal was not Muslim.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  372. @BengaliCanadianDude

    I worked in Dhaka (Gulshan Rd) for three months.

    Are Bangladeshis and Calcutta Hindus the same thing? I’m not sure.

    Bengali Hindus look more Asian/distant Aryan-European while Bangladeshis look more black and less Nepalese.

    A Gupta looks Asiatic. A Raqman just looks dark Indian.

  373. @TT


    Malays are somewhat historically pissed off that Chinese separated from Malaysia and became a first world country overnight because it is a reflection on the their civilization.

    As for being irritated that Chinese leaders lead, part of this could be religious but most of it simply ethnic pride.

    Singapore has very few Jews. You perceive them as running the US which then results in their foreign policies being imposed on the rest of the world, but this not really the problem in Asia.

    Exactly how Hindus make useful tools of Jews in New York City, much less Muslim Indians! is really mysterious.

    Gulf oil has not done that much to improve Bangladesh or Southern Philippines except give some of them jobs as overseas workers.

    • Replies: @TT
  374. TT says:
    @jeff stryker

    Jeff, are you trying to be irony or really so ignorant to doubt on jews role in US, also on widely known Gulf states sponsoring Wahabism to spread globally?

    Perhaps you would like to read many other threads in UNZ about how jews are controlling US, or consult Ron if you seriously need help.

    If you do like to know about how Gulf sponsored wahabism Islam is spreading globally, esp in Asean, and its already deep infiltration into most Asean, you can search Saudi Wahabi in to read up yourself.

    You don’t need jews overwhelming present in Asia ruling circle to alert everyone of their infiltration like what they did in US & West. Sepoy Indians & Wahabi Muslim Arabs are useful tool in disguise.

  375. @jeff stryker

    Bangalore is located in Karnataka, not Tamil Nadu

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  376. @TT

    Ill reply when I am in front of a computer

  377. @jeff stryker

    I have said in another comment that I am of a Bengali Muslim background from West Bengal actually.. I have however seen Bangladeshis and they dont look too different. We can look at caste and see that yes some are blacks, but those who come from similar caste, or previous caste look the same

  378. @jeff stryker

    Again, I cannot tell you about Dhaka as I have no connection to Bangladesh. I have not been there nor do I have any relatives. After the Partition, my whole family decided to stay in India.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  379. -You talk about seperatist movements around the world. But you blame Islam. This is nonsense, and it is preposterous.
    Let’s take the Kurds for instance. They are Muslims, as are the Iranians, the Syrians, the Turks and the Iraqis. And they still wish to seperate.
    They don’t do it out of religion, but out of ethnicity, out of culture, out of heritage. Nothing to do with Islam.These are also people who are funded by Zionists and Israelis. Their reltionship with the Mossad is well documented and it is hisotirc. Masoud Barzani and Moshe Dayan were close.
    It is known that even Mossad agents cried when the Shah made territory deals with Saddam You say there are conflicts in Muslim countries-that is true.
    But why is Islam to blame, when Western intervention has always caused this. Libya had a great thing going on, and you may talk to the Libyans themselves.
    They don’t care about democracy, they car3ed because Gaddafi made the streets safe, gave them clean water, excellent treatment, subsidized gas,
    safe environments, education and more. They had a great things going, beofre France and NATO decided to fuck them up, with their airstrikes,- blockades,
    and other measures. -Bashar al assad is a secularist, and he keeps religion out of politics. -The Assyrians love him, as do the christians and the druze.
    He ensures the rights of women, gives them access to education and more. What does my country and the west do? They fund terrorist groups with weapons,
    logistics and other measures and then they call them “rebels” and even secular(oh the irony”) to legitimize them. They go to Iraq and they level it to the ground based on
    false pretenses.They destroy their schools, their centres of learning, the infrastructure, and the likes Again, they fund radical Islamist groups and they give arms and aid to them. Disgusting. They go to Afghanistan, and despite my qualms with these people
    -(horrible horrible people, here in Canada), they drone strike them everywhere they go. They can’t play outside as there are multiple gunfights going on, and because at any point there is a drone strike.
    Rinse..and repeat. And repeat. So what you’re saying is practically a moot point. it has to do with ehtnicity and tradition, not islam

    Then you speak of terrorism being hindered b y Islam or whatever you’re saying. See above. It is funded by the USA, by France and Israel.
    The Mossad chief literally spoke of them funding Syrian “rebel” groups. They fund the Kurdish terrorists. The US funded the Taliban, they fund the Islamists
    in Iraq and Syri. It is an open secret, indeed, that ISIS is an Israeli creation, as evidenced by their reactions to it. All their quick apologies, lack of aggression,
    and more. But this is not about that. It is not hindered by Islam. They would quickly dissapear without meddling of foreign powers.

    Then you talk about getting your throat slit if you touch their women. This is the most weirdest point. Did you..get rejected by a Malay girl?
    Anyways, that does not happen at all. This is anecdotal garbage, and I won’t even bother, because it’s probably not true anyways.

    Also, just make the food halal, then everybody would be able to eat it. It’s not a long procedure, you just have to say a word or two before it.

    And I never said things were perfect. Why are you deflecting and asking the Muslim woman can marry a non Muslim? Why? They are not allowed, but
    things still happen. Are you seriously jealous or seem obsessed.

    “Of course Muslim men can…..”. Yeah, nonsense. Stop blaming Gulf oil all the time

    Nothing to be foolish about, Muslims do allow non Muslims as leaders. What do you mean thats not halal? If you can’t hold a serious conversation,
    don’t bother. Don’t waste your time and don’t waste mine.

    • Replies: @TT
  380. @jeff stryker

    And let’s not pretend that Bengalis from my ancestral homeland of West Bengal aren’t dark too.
    They are very similar, however you may have a point with some Bangladeshis being darker. Not by much but yes. Observations which I have made. Also, if you’re an Indian, stop using that shitty name as your handle. It’s weird

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  381. @Alden

    I need to learn more about this Indonesian skeleton thing

  382. @BengaliCanadianDude

    oops I meant some are extremely dark, not blacks lmao where did that come from.

  383. @BengaliCanadianDude

    Yeah, but on the border of that state. Or close.

    Never worked anywhere but Cochin myself.

  384. @BengaliCanadianDude

    I did not read your post.

    But few Bangladeshis move to Canada compared to Bengali Indians, so this makes sense.

  385. @BengaliCanadianDude

    I made assumption because you identified as Muslim and most Bengali in Canada are Hindu.

  386. @BengaliCanadianDude

    I’m a Gora and of all the gibberish avatars WHY would mine stand out as weird? That’s an odd thing to say.

    Its a fake name, obviously but my IRL my name is German.

    Many Indian posters assume I am Indian but in point of fact I was a graphic artist who worked in Mumbai, Cochin and traveled a bit (To Delhi and of course Goa).

    From a white perspective, Guptas and other Hindus look more Nepalese/Asiatic than Muslims.

  387. @jeff stryker

    From a white perspective, Guptas and other Hindus look more Nepalese/Asiatic than Muslims.

    Again, it depends on their previous caste

  388. TT says:

    You are right on jews controlled west are the one behind all these terrorism, creating Al Queda & ISIS. Muslims are just their brainwashed canon fodder & foot soldiers on cheap for geopolitical game. Most peace loving Muslims are the victims, been massacre in millions, including in India due to negative image.

    But Saudi & Gulf states are CIA greatest voluntary asset to export wahabism & terrorism all over the world. That’s how Muslims are conditioned to kill Muslims in ME, only insider can do such job. You think a Christian white can convince Sunni to kill Shi’a?

    But we also seeing moderate Muslims in Indonesia, Msia, Myanmar, Thailand, even right in Spore, many are converting to extremists by Saudi clergymen with Gulf sponsored schools & mosques built all over. Same in Bangladesh & MEast, im not sure if India is affected too.

    These Muslim people fighting for secession are same people in Thailand, just like PAK divided from India. Even in same Muslim country like Indonesia, separatists are active under West instigation.

    But did you find its only Muslims that are fighting for secession violently in global scale, often with terrorism? Im not saying Muslims is bad, they also has great civilization in past, but reality is this is happening everywhere.

    Slit throat &;l stone to death is just exaggerated for our region, secular Indonesia allow free marriage & change of religion, but it do happen often in ME in name of honorable killings, no?

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  389. @Vojkan

    Your sob story is not based on fatcsï

  390. @TT

    Honour killings happen in India abd other countries as well. Christians have done it in Lebanon when their child wantesto marry a muslim, or the same in Palestine. The sikhs have been notorious for their honour killings, and it is well known in Canada. Hindus from lower castes abd other religions have been lynched if they wanted to marry a girl from a higer caste. Honour killings happen just thesame amongst these countries. You still mention seperatism, when I have told you that majority of these are related to ethnic and cultural diffderences, not just based on religion. Also its not just the “muslims”. There are seperatist movements in moldova, romania, georgia,armenia,abkhazia and other placez. As Ive said its more based on culture and ethnic differences, but you keep wrongly simplifying it to “muh islam”

    • Replies: @TT
  391. TT says:

    I want to first prove you that Muslims esp MEast Wahabi of Gulf are chief terrorism origin, created by FUKUS-Israel to flood the world as their aggression tool. Its mutated to many off shoots. Pls spread it among your Muslims brothers to avoid been used.

    This tool has been actively deployed in Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Msia, Myanmar(Rohingya), Pak, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Albania, Afghanistan, Russia Chechnya, China Xinjiang by Turkey, …etc.

    Your country under Hindustan fanatic Modi is now part of West sepoy terrorism racket, active in Pak & Afghanistan, even bombing China consular in PAK.

    Whether its race or ethnics, you can observe yourself, a overwhelming proportion of violent separatists & almost all terrorism come from one single religion – Muslims.

    This is especially obvious & Seriously aggravated by FUKUS with Saudi lead Gulf Wahabi terrorism HQ. Besides using Muslims as geopolitical tools, it may also serve to demonize Islam, so to justify Israel Yinon plan requiring destroying of 7 Muslims countries, massacre millions Muslims.

    Let’s not be PC here to pretend in hypocrisy. Muslims are most violent denier whenever someone pointed out their fundamental problems making any meaningful discussion impossible. This happen in my country moderate Muslims also, its simply a religion you can only left it to terrorize itself & everyone, as no one wanted to ignite a explosive violent reaction.

    Call a spade as spade, face it up to see what’s wrong with Islam. Then Some wise one one day may find a solution to change the fate of Billions Muslims. Otherwise its another hidden nuke time bomb awaiting to explode globally.

  392. @TT

    More gibberish and nonsense which I have gone over, the seperatist movements would fade away and not exist without Western funding or Jewish funding.

  393. @TT

    As in terrorism..the people that do it have Muslim names sure. The quran expressly forbids and condemns suicide and killing of innocents so they look for ways to justify it. Again ISIS TALIBAN and many of these organizations have been funded by the
    …..WESTERN wotld. Also, the US and other countries are the bigger terrorists ad I’ve mentioned, they do it on a far grander scalr, with bettet logistics, and official stamps of approvals. They do state sponsored terror and state terror

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  394. @BengaliCanadianDude


    Terrorists have been Sikhs, Tamil Tiger Christians, Irish, Germans, Italian Red Army brigade…Prior to the seventies, we did not even associate terrorism with Muslims (I was born in 1974). Oh, and Japanese.

  395. hamtok says:

    Any journalist who hides his name and writes under a pen name is suspect of bias. Lance Welton is no exemption. This his second article based on ‘IQ’s’. the first one was racist (Meet Australian Aborigines–They Make African Americans Look Like A Model Minority this is scandalously close. I would suspect that Welton is of the Chosen Tribe as they have an innate sense of White Man’s superiority to all others, especially the readings from the Talmud.

  396. @Rational

    For a guy whose name is rational, you really arent

  397. @jeff stryker

    Muslim empires werw much better for India and there was certainly jot as much oppresion. Hindus were leaders in high military positions, important judges, local leaders and more. India’s Golden Age was achieved under Islamoc rule, ajd that empire and the empires preceding and succeeding them, were expansive

  398. @Rational

    No, I think this works almost everywhere else but seems to be reverted in South Asia. The whitest areas in South Asia tend to be from inland Pakistan and inpoverished BIMARU states of India. On the other hand black-skinned Tamils do well..

  399. @anonymous

    I support an independent Biafra. I don’t like blacks in general. However I do want to give Igbos a chance. If they end up dominating West Africa economically that will be good for everyone.

  400. Tj says:

    You must be a north Indian, and you are not comfortable with the notion of law IQ.. You are propagating misinformation, there is no way someone from west could figure out which part of India you are from, you are talking about couple of shades different if at all and basically people more or less look similar in shape.. And hey we are talking about people living in the same region with high intensity UV for thousands of years and that explains the difference if any.. Since you are believing in old theories British supplied to divide and conquer I confess you with a law IQ score too – may be you should read more.. Regarding the article, it is not prefect either..

  401. Anonymous [AKA "Piku"] says:
    @Priss Factor

    That’s a part of our tradition and we can’t leave it. You see, people in many countries like having nose rings and it’s liked by most of the people so nobody wants an illiterate ass like you to comment here. Got it now?

  402. @TT

    1)Honestly as a Singaporean Chinese,you’re obviously Chinese stock so stop pretending trying to be this bullshit Ang Moh.I have been reading all your comments and everything you’ve been saying about the West,1st rate Chinese,Singaporean are all opinions NOT facts or stats based.There’s no evidence that those Chinese in US are 2nd rate especially when Chinese unis have an extremely high rate of plagiarism assigments detected for their final year undergrad comp sci.
    I studied my postgrad in Tsinghua university,I know that Chinese professor hold American Universities higher standard to China.These proffesors praised American ability to think out of the box and encouraged Chinese to follow the Western way of thinking NOT Chinese way of rote learning. I could give you blogs to some of these professors from Tsinghua.

    2)India missed the train of 3rd industrial revolution(manufacturing) and skipped to IT. Kinda obvious why India hardware capibilities lacking

    3)I see what you doing pulling every other race and bringing up the Chinese race.Try to be more like me analysing pros and cons and not be this biased block. You forget to mention stats that shows the average Chinese are still bad at coding compare to average American.In fact average Russian,Chinese and Indian are about the same level based on report

  403. @jeff stryker

    Seriously there’s too many South Asian in this forum. Jeff you might be one of them considering your knowledge on the Indian subcontitent is far more than a typical white.Lemme guess youre either a Nepali or Pakistani..Bring this Indian feud of Pakistani/Nepali elsewhere.
    Seriously this forum should only allow access to 1st world nation or any country with GDP per capita>$20000.Prevent 3rd world mongrels like Jeff faking his nationality.

  404. @Anonymous

    “Indians as a whole are a low IQ people with a small smart fraction.
    Anyone who has been to India can see this. Look at how barbaric Indias attitude is towards women is.”

    I dont disagree with this but the caste system by default is a social eugenics experiment.Indians have different IQ celing based on the regions but on average the country should be in the mid 90’s adjusted Flynn effect.I’m basing this on the indeutred labourers that were brought to South Africa and Malaysia.Their IQ tested is 5-8 points lower than whites.

  405. @TT

    Nah you can isolate these stats by race.Sinkie Chinese IQ are on the decline.This is in trend with whites IQ declining as well.James Flynn and Murray say this is due to the Internet and phones dumbing down current gen.Cognitive skills are less in reliance

  406. @TT

    Oh please retire with the Jews joke.Jews are overrepresented into scientific discoveries.Stop embarassing our race.Until we are as innovative as the Japanese and Jews,never compare to them.We’re good in exams not the real life.Facts.

  407. @TT

    According to Singgov stats,Chinese score higher in Maths,Science while Indian score higher in English,General Knowledge.However Indians score higher than Malays.Their IQ in Singapore should be around 103-105 although this is due to immigration based on the GCSE.Chinese is 108.

  408. Indian says:

    Every human /race on earth has the same capabilities. Every one has the potential to become a scientist, doctor, engineer etc. Through right education and effort anyone can become what he want to become

    Even religion says so. The effort of previous births determine this birth’s character and nature. Nature character at birth time can be altered through effort.

    Viswamitra was a kshatriya born with both Brahmin and kshatriya vasanas. Wit his efforts he became a Brahmin sage . His progeny and descendants became Brahmins of viswamitra gothra

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